0:00:00 > 0:00:02Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk with Sarah Montague
0:00:02 > 0:00:12and the rock and roll showman, Gene Simmons.
0:00:12 > 0:00:21Welcome to HARDtalk make. I am Sarah Montague. There aren't many people
0:00:21 > 0:00:24who are recognisable only from their make-up, but mention a zig-zag of
0:00:24 > 0:00:27black flames around the eyes, painted on a white face, and
0:00:27 > 0:00:31millions of people around the world will know you are talking about the
0:00:31 > 0:00:34frontman of the rock band, Kiss. Take away the makeup and you have
0:00:34 > 0:00:38Gene Simmons, a man so canny about business that he realised he could
0:00:38 > 0:00:41make more money from marketing the Kiss brand than from selling
0:00:41 > 0:00:44records. His famously long tongue has also proved a loose one. He is
0:00:44 > 0:00:50frequently invited on chat shows and revels in scandalising his critics.
0:00:50 > 0:01:00But is that also all part of the act?
0:01:20 > 0:01:27Gene Simmons, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. Wonderful being here.Is
0:01:27 > 0:01:33it all front with you, promoting an image and a brand through both your
0:01:33 > 0:01:38music and your opinions?I think it is fair to say we all wake up and
0:01:38 > 0:01:42stand in front of a mirror and try to see how the rest of the world
0:01:42 > 0:01:46sees as. Shakespeare said the whole world is a stage and we are players.
0:01:46 > 0:01:50We are all trying to figure out what to wear, how to act, in some ways it
0:01:50 > 0:01:56is all real. The only time we are as honest and purely innocent without
0:01:56 > 0:02:01trying to figure out what anyone thinks is perhaps when we are at
0:02:01 > 0:02:06home alone and there is no one there to judge us. But as soon as we leave
0:02:06 > 0:02:09our home, people have something to say, look out, think about, and so
0:02:09 > 0:02:15on. So, of course, everything is all an act in the same way as you. You
0:02:15 > 0:02:21are a professional. But of course, it is an act.OK, but as far as the
0:02:21 > 0:02:24music is concerned, there are people who say it was always about the
0:02:24 > 0:02:28front rather than the music.I mean, take whatever you will from it...
0:02:28 > 0:02:35Before you, what was it?We wanted four years ago to put together a
0:02:35 > 0:02:39band no one ever saw on stage, to write the songs that we believe in
0:02:39 > 0:02:43and so on and to make, you know, quite honestly a complete spectacle
0:02:43 > 0:02:48out of ourselves, because critics say that we are. You are downright
0:02:48 > 0:02:55we do. We believe in giving folks bang for their buck. The sad thing
0:02:55 > 0:03:07is people putting in some act and charging $100 for it.But only
0:03:07 > 0:03:14recently, when you look at the critics of...Can I react to the
0:03:14 > 0:03:18word critics?One of the Guardian addicts talked about your concert
0:03:18 > 0:03:25earlier this year, he described it and all earlier concerts as a
0:03:25 > 0:03:30masterclass in self-parody from day one.Thank God the Guardian thought
0:03:30 > 0:03:37that.Perhaps it is something you agree with. You set out to say...
0:03:37 > 0:03:42Not at all. Not at all. I appreciate the good will and good natured fun,
0:03:42 > 0:03:48but I have a few houses the critics have bought me. If those are bad
0:03:48 > 0:03:51reviews, bring them on.Can you be honest about how much is spectacle
0:03:51 > 0:03:57rather than the music it is clearly both.I don't want to get up on
0:03:57 > 0:04:01stage with a band I am so proud of and just play the songs. That would
0:04:01 > 0:04:05be a slap in the face of the audience. We also don't use backing
0:04:05 > 0:04:15tracks or anything fake. We are really a legitimate band.You said
0:04:15 > 0:04:20yourself I am not an artist.That is highly overused. It is not up to me
0:04:20 > 0:04:25to decide if I am. It is up to the people. For the people, by the
0:04:25 > 0:04:30people. If someone does I am an artist, I would say, who are you?
0:04:30 > 0:04:34There are some people who write and sing because they feel driven to do
0:04:34 > 0:04:38it. Is that the same with you?I don't want to tell you the facts of
0:04:38 > 0:04:41life about those things. Those people will tell you what you want
0:04:41 > 0:04:46to hear. That is beautifully poetic. Then privately they go back to their
0:04:46 > 0:04:52mansions in the same way we do. And the attention and the attraction of
0:04:52 > 0:04:58this sex or the opposite sex, it is all part of the game. People would
0:04:58 > 0:05:04not do this if they got not a single penny.OK, but do you still write
0:05:04 > 0:05:10music? Are you still moved to do so? I wrote a song two weeks ago called
0:05:10 > 0:05:16Your Wish is My Command.Did you write to make money?That is a good
0:05:16 > 0:05:21point so the people who create stuff and right stuff are in the creative
0:05:21 > 0:05:24process and afterwards they want to make money. But there is absolutely
0:05:24 > 0:05:28nothing wrong with sitting down and being hired by somebody because you
0:05:28 > 0:05:32are hired by the wonderful and iconic BBC to sit here. You know
0:05:32 > 0:05:36full well what you are going to be doing, you are going to be paid
0:05:36 > 0:05:42money. What is bad about that?OK. And for you, I mean, as a band...
0:05:42 > 0:05:48You mean America's number one golden record winning group?It is hard
0:05:48 > 0:05:53wired into your DNA, isn't it? To promote.If I will wait for the BBC
0:05:53 > 0:05:58or anyone else to tell the world how fantastic we are, we will lose.That
0:05:58 > 0:06:04is why early on you invented band merchandising. You did not do
0:06:04 > 0:06:12teacups and coffee cups...How English! I love it.Or T-shirts! You
0:06:12 > 0:06:19went so much further! You have 5000 different licensed items!Yeah.
0:06:19 > 0:06:29Anything from Kiss condoms to caskets. We will get you coming to
0:06:29 > 0:06:38going.The latest you have is a vault.It is called
0:06:38 > 0:06:42genesimmonsvault.com.What is it the ordinary is people can pay extra for
0:06:42 > 0:06:49this material and get you... I don't want you to list various options.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53You can pay extra to have you personally and deliver it to their
0:06:53 > 0:07:00house.Yeah. That is because when I was a child Elvis did not come to my
0:07:00 > 0:07:05door and say check out my new album, Gene. I am well-off and the fans
0:07:05 > 0:07:09gave me this opportunity so I wanted to change the way things are done.
0:07:09 > 0:07:14The largest box set of all time is the box set I am putting on the
0:07:14 > 0:07:22website. It is three feet tall, 38 lbs, and spans 50 years of songs
0:07:22 > 0:07:27with Bob Dylan and Van Halen and many people. But I will hop on a
0:07:27 > 0:07:31plane at my own cost and have to live it around the world.I don't
0:07:31 > 0:07:35know how early sales have gone... Huge!You are travelling a lot next
0:07:35 > 0:07:40year?I will start in January and be out there for 12 months.You will
0:07:40 > 0:07:45not get tired?I will, but so what? When you go run around Hyde Park,
0:07:45 > 0:07:52you get tired.For those struggling to think, you know, what is a Kiss
0:07:52 > 0:07:56band? They may not remember.What planet did they come from?We have a
0:07:56 > 0:08:05clip. We will have a look.
0:08:14 > 0:08:24#Everybody's got to rock and roll#! #Shout it, shout it, shout it out
0:08:24 > 0:08:32loud#! #Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud#! Do you notice how
0:08:32 > 0:08:37attractive I look?That is from last year! By the way, the offering has
0:08:37 > 0:08:42not changed much in more than four decades. You are now approaching 70.
0:08:42 > 0:08:4868 now.Do you not get a bit tired? Oh no.Putting on the make up.Do
0:08:48 > 0:08:55you?But seriously?It is a privilege and an honour. It is more
0:08:55 > 0:09:09akin to warpaint, the idea... The roar of the crowd, the smell of the
0:09:09 > 0:09:12grease paint, the whole process is so exciting. You are backstage and
0:09:12 > 0:09:16hanging with the guys and stuff like that and you start to hear the
0:09:16 > 0:09:19crowd. There are very few things that get you excited during the
0:09:19 > 0:09:23course of the day. Come on, you are looking forward to...But to do it
0:09:23 > 0:09:27for five decades and you are still having to perform some of the early
0:09:27 > 0:09:30songs...Of course, we are! And partly so. What better job is there?
0:09:30 > 0:09:38We have more fun than the Pope!It when you first realise... You were
0:09:38 > 0:09:44formed in 1873...1873?In 1973 it was a struggle to begin with but
0:09:44 > 0:09:48suddenly you started selling records.It wasn't about records. We
0:09:48 > 0:09:52started selling at readings within a year and a half of debuting. We sold
0:09:52 > 0:09:58out in a home stadium. We were headlining above bands around for
0:09:58 > 0:10:04decades. -- Anaheim Stadium. Something happened before records,
0:10:04 > 0:10:09voicemail, anything, really. It happened naturally. Critics never
0:10:09 > 0:10:13gave us a quarter to get on a bus. It happened because of the people!
0:10:13 > 0:10:17And we continued... Our strongest base, our strongest, you know,
0:10:17 > 0:10:22support, comes from the people. And that is our favourite thing.In for
0:10:22 > 0:10:25running up debts to get the band going, the money really started
0:10:25 > 0:10:30rolling in. -- and from.Big. I remember... My mother is from
0:10:30 > 0:10:34Hungary and she continues to say how is it going? She has this
0:10:34 > 0:10:39wonderful... She still has no clue who pays the money or who I work
0:10:39 > 0:10:43for.She has been to one of your concerts?She goes all the time and
0:10:43 > 0:10:49she does my, you know, the hand gesture, and all that, I love you.
0:10:49 > 0:10:57Initially she went up and did not realise I was on the other end of
0:10:57 > 0:11:02the room. My life is so amazing... But your life changed as a result of
0:11:02 > 0:11:06that and as a result of the fact that you were starting to make
0:11:06 > 0:11:09money. It must have just changed so the radically.Well, it dramatically
0:11:09 > 0:11:13changed because I moved to Hollywood and I sold out. I became ensconced,
0:11:13 > 0:11:18which is a big word like gymnasium and power and all that, but never
0:11:18 > 0:11:23drugs, never boos, never alcohol. I have still never been high or drunk
0:11:23 > 0:11:28in my life. -- booze. I don't care if anyone thinks I am making it up
0:11:28 > 0:11:32or believes it. That is my choice in life and you can do whatever you
0:11:32 > 0:11:36want. I would never break my mother's hard. She was 14 years of
0:11:36 > 0:11:41age when she was in the concentration camps of Nazi. --
0:11:41 > 0:11:47heart. I have no right to disappoint her in any way. My mother is proud
0:11:47 > 0:11:51of her son and I have done my job. And it is because of your mother
0:11:51 > 0:11:55that you thought I will not do something that affects the health.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59You are the only sign.It is about not breaking her heart. She is 92
0:11:59 > 0:12:05and just kicking it. I am not supposed to say that word is up and
0:12:05 > 0:12:08she continues to be the inspiration that keeps me going straight, that
0:12:08 > 0:12:12prevents me from drifting off to the dark side, because, you know, the
0:12:12 > 0:12:17papers are littered with people who self abuse...But including your
0:12:17 > 0:12:20bandmates, two of the original members of the band have written
0:12:20 > 0:12:26about their own problems with drugs, Coke, and alcohol. Peter Greste said
0:12:26 > 0:12:31I had a coke problem at the time. Everyone was doing it.I never
0:12:31 > 0:12:38did... I was so stupid and naive I went on to a recording studio and
0:12:38 > 0:12:47there was a mirror and I just had artificial sweetener and coffee. I
0:12:47 > 0:12:56thought someone had spilt some sweetener but it was coke. I did not
0:12:56 > 0:13:02know what it was in someone stopped me amusing at. I rapidly learned to
0:13:02 > 0:13:07stay away from losers.That is why you got rid of two of the original
0:13:07 > 0:13:10members of the band.Three different times. They came around three
0:13:10 > 0:13:15different times and lost fortunes every time.Peter when writing about
0:13:15 > 0:13:20it said it made him work harder, it was fuel to him.Everyone gets
0:13:20 > 0:13:24delusional with chemicals inside their body. It is nonsense. Without
0:13:24 > 0:13:28it I would not be creative, that kind of... It is enabling. The truth
0:13:28 > 0:13:33is you are born with everything you need. Anything else you your body
0:13:33 > 0:13:38numbs your mind and body, it is your enemy.What was it like within the
0:13:38 > 0:13:48band if you are alone in that?There was huge tension. We had argument
0:13:48 > 0:13:52and fight and lawyers get involved. And of course, invariably, you had
0:13:52 > 0:13:56to get rid of them. Because how can you imagine playing in a football
0:13:56 > 0:14:00team if you do not depend on them? What if you are too high to
0:14:00 > 0:14:07understand? We all lose.You did not touch drink and drugs. The women,
0:14:07 > 0:14:10though, that third element of the rock and roll life, you really went
0:14:10 > 0:14:19to town.It is all true.4800 women is supposedly your record.
0:14:19 > 0:14:23One or two, whatever that is, that's in the past. I'm married. I love my
0:14:23 > 0:14:30wife, Shannon, and I waited like a jackass, are you allowed to say that
0:14:30 > 0:14:35word?That's fine.I am a jackass and I have been all my life, I'm a
0:14:35 > 0:14:40lonely child and it's like being in a bakery and being on a diet, you're
0:14:40 > 0:14:44in a rock band and everything gets thrown in your face, the bad stuff,
0:14:44 > 0:14:49women, all that stuff. I didn't want to grow up, I was arrogant, self and
0:14:49 > 0:14:54all that. It took for ever, it took Shannon, my wife, my wife, my two
0:14:54 > 0:14:58kids, Nick and Sophie, to kick me in the nuts and make me grow up and be
0:14:58 > 0:15:03a man.Your wife made you burn the Polaroids which were the proof of
0:15:03 > 0:15:10the 4800.It was a public thing, it wasn't a secret.You put it behind
0:15:10 > 0:15:13you but you have run into difficulties recently because of the
0:15:13 > 0:15:17things you said when he went to Fox News, you were banned for life
0:15:17 > 0:15:22because you barged into a staff meeting.I didn't. Certainly not.
0:15:22 > 0:15:27You barged in and you opened up your shirt and you said Sunni.What is
0:15:27 > 0:15:35your name?Sarah.I could go on social media and said Sarah let me
0:15:35 > 0:15:40backstage and do whatever I want. What happened?Nothing, here's how I
0:15:40 > 0:15:44wear my shirt, someone there had in for me and called the daily beast or
0:15:44 > 0:15:48something and said whatever they said I did. I did nothing. I aways
0:15:48 > 0:15:52have people around me, like when I come here, have handlers and
0:15:52 > 0:15:56everyone sees what I'm doing. You can't go into a public area and do
0:15:56 > 0:16:00anything. Let me finish. The problem with social media today is nobody
0:16:00 > 0:16:05calls you and says, do you have a comment? The story was printed and
0:16:05 > 0:16:08of course everybody exploded and Fox, they're nice people, I like
0:16:08 > 0:16:14them a lot, but they are close ranks and they're afraid of getting sued
0:16:14 > 0:16:17by everybody but nothing happened, I stand by every word.Nothing
0:16:17 > 0:16:20happened but they banned you?That's right, that's exactly right, stand
0:16:20 > 0:16:28by every word I just said.We all know the hash tag #metoo where women
0:16:28 > 0:16:31are calling out behaviour where they have suffered in the past sexual
0:16:31 > 0:16:35harassment at the hands of men and your name has appeared in a couple
0:16:35 > 0:16:39of tweets.Why would I want to do anything... I'm not even going to
0:16:39 > 0:16:44hold up the hypothetical. Nothing happened. All of a sudden 44 years
0:16:44 > 0:16:48on in a rock band somebody is coming up and saying this guy is a bad guy,
0:16:48 > 0:16:53it's not true. I think the climate is horrifically bad and yet at the
0:16:53 > 0:16:57same time in powering to the right women, there are some really bad
0:16:57 > 0:17:01guys out there, I just happen not to be one of them.When you read what
0:17:01 > 0:17:05women say I happening to them, what do you think about the culture that
0:17:05 > 0:17:11you and others lived through?The women coming out about Weinstein,
0:17:11 > 0:17:15they should go to the cops, the police and court system are there to
0:17:15 > 0:17:18do what the women did with Bill Cosby, if you have a complaint, go
0:17:18 > 0:17:23to the cops. Going through the court of public opinion on social media is
0:17:23 > 0:17:28exactly how it happened, why not get a lawyer?Isn't there a question of
0:17:28 > 0:17:31changing the Kopczak, the kind of stuff you maybe don't go to the
0:17:31 > 0:17:35police over but you think, I'm going to go and call this out because
0:17:35 > 0:17:39women don't have to accept it.There is an organisation in England, I saw
0:17:39 > 0:17:44it yesterday on a chat show, the woman heads it, about the victims,
0:17:44 > 0:17:48the men committed suicide were wrongly convicted of all kinds of
0:17:48 > 0:17:53nonsense. What about them?Do you think it's gone too far?I'm not
0:17:53 > 0:17:58saying it's gone too far go to the cops.Let's go back to your mother.
0:17:58 > 0:18:02Now I like you.The single most important person in your life.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06Should be the single most important person to everybody bus pass life.
0:18:06 > 0:18:12It's because of her background, she was a survivor of the Holocaust,
0:18:12 > 0:18:19when she was in America, she was with you, you were eight, Jura
0:18:19 > 0:18:23members that time in it seems to
0:18:27 > 0:18:32My father abandoned me when I was about seven years old and my dear
0:18:32 > 0:18:35mother took on the rains and the responsibility the way so many
0:18:35 > 0:18:40millions of mothers around the world raise families as a single mother,
0:18:40 > 0:18:42whether they're married or not.
0:18:43 > 0:18:47We came to America when I was eight years old and I was to fully
0:18:47 > 0:18:51unprepared for everything and my mother had language difficulties,
0:18:51 > 0:18:57she only spoke Hungarian, I spoke Hungarian and one or two other
0:18:57 > 0:19:00languages, none of us spoke English and it was enormously hard for my
0:19:00 > 0:19:04mother and what I saw was the most empowering inspirational human being
0:19:04 > 0:19:07I've ever seen in movies, television, it was my mother, who
0:19:07 > 0:19:12would wake up at the crack of dawn and go to work every day and make
0:19:12 > 0:19:15sure her son would turn out and take. That's why I have a lifelong
0:19:15 > 0:19:19responsibility... You're going to get me choked up here now because
0:19:19 > 0:19:28I'm going to stop.-- turned out OK. What do you think about the attempts
0:19:28 > 0:19:34in America now to stop immigrants?I am an immigrant, I'm a illegal
0:19:34 > 0:19:38immigrants, why anyone would care what a guy in a band thinks about
0:19:38 > 0:19:44immigration or politics, but you're asking so I'm going to give you one
0:19:44 > 0:19:48citizen's opinion. That is legal immigration is the right thing
0:19:48 > 0:19:52because at least people know who you are, where you come from. Some
0:19:52 > 0:19:56vetting, it's called due diligence in business, but you want to vet who
0:19:56 > 0:20:00comes and goes and I give that power to the government. I want you to say
0:20:00 > 0:20:05I want you to know where I am if I pay taxes, if I commit a crime, I
0:20:05 > 0:20:09want you to know where I am, here are my figure prints, I'm all for
0:20:09 > 0:20:16that. There are 120 million illegal immigrants in America. My heart goes
0:20:16 > 0:20:20out to anyone that comes to America or England for a better life or
0:20:20 > 0:20:24anything like that, I get it, emotionally and sympathetically I'm
0:20:24 > 0:20:28with you all the way. But unfortunately bad guys come along
0:20:28 > 0:20:32with that as well. I just want to say the following, the Pope, I'm a
0:20:32 > 0:20:36big fan of him, he's a good human being, he said walls around your
0:20:36 > 0:20:41land are not a nice thing, maybe so, but the Vatican has an enormous wall
0:20:41 > 0:20:44going around it.But your own daughter said we're a country built
0:20:44 > 0:20:48on immigrants and survivals and what is happening right now when we're
0:20:48 > 0:20:51closing our doors on that is shocking to me because my family
0:20:51 > 0:20:58wouldn't be here, both my family are -- both my parents are immigrants.I
0:20:58 > 0:21:03love Sophie, she's the rights holder of everything, when she is 25 years
0:21:03 > 0:21:09old, I was like that too, immigrants is all encompassing, it's not. When
0:21:09 > 0:21:13you're illegal immigrant there's a vetting process, when you keep the
0:21:13 > 0:21:17doors open, I'm going to suggest let everyone in, without any vetting,
0:21:17 > 0:21:22are you for that?What about the children of illegal immigrants, the
0:21:22 > 0:21:26dreamers?It breaks my heart and I don't have the answer because if I
0:21:26 > 0:21:30was here illegally and I had a child I would say do whatever you want
0:21:30 > 0:21:34with me but please let my child have a better life. That's the emotion
0:21:34 > 0:21:40and romance of it.You have said about Trump, give him time.It's
0:21:40 > 0:21:44President Trump and I'll tell you why. I don't necessarily like or
0:21:44 > 0:21:49dislike him.Did you vote for him? He was duly elected and I'll tell
0:21:49 > 0:21:54you why I won't answer that either, I may not have, but the reason your
0:21:54 > 0:21:57Founding Fathers, and in America you have the curtains were you vote,
0:21:57 > 0:22:02it's nobody's business who you voted for and if a citizen asks you that
0:22:02 > 0:22:06you're just going to get into an argument.Given the record you've
0:22:06 > 0:22:10seen so far I wonder whether you would be prepared to vote for him
0:22:10 > 0:22:16for a second time?I know the man personally a little bit, as I know
0:22:16 > 0:22:18President Clinton and President Bush.You've worked with him as
0:22:18 > 0:22:24well, haven't you?Yes. President Trump doesn't really care how you
0:22:24 > 0:22:29think about him, he's really a loan guide. That's really not good or
0:22:29 > 0:22:33bad, it is what it is, he doesn't pretend to be a politician and he
0:22:33 > 0:22:37really doesn't care what you think about him. This is either going to
0:22:37 > 0:22:41turn out to be good or bad. I know he's heard a lot of things, people
0:22:41 > 0:22:45buy the things he's said, he's unfiltered, what you see is what you
0:22:45 > 0:22:49get, he's not an ideologue, he's neither Republican or a cracked.
0:22:49 > 0:22:54Don't think for a second that because I'm saying this on for this
0:22:54 > 0:23:00or this. I don't trust politicians, neither side would have me, socially
0:23:00 > 0:23:06I'm very liberal, gay rights, LGBT, if you want to worship a rock or an
0:23:06 > 0:23:10atheist, I'm on your side, I will march with you, don't tell me what
0:23:10 > 0:23:14kind of life to have but foreign policy, I'm as conservative as you
0:23:14 > 0:23:18would imagine. Fiscally I'm very conservative. What does that make
0:23:18 > 0:23:23me, a member of the American party? Let me ask you finally about the
0:23:23 > 0:23:29American your family.Finally, I thought we were going to be here all
0:23:29 > 0:23:34day?You arrive in America at eight years old and new you see house
0:23:34 > 0:23:38accessible you been, is your mother proud of you?My mother will take a
0:23:38 > 0:23:43magazine out and something I have been in and she will start crying.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46From her perspective of being a concentration camp survivor and
0:23:46 > 0:23:50seeing her whole family to being in Israel and then coming to America
0:23:50 > 0:23:54and seeing her son scale the heights and all that, she's taught me to be
0:23:54 > 0:24:00fearless and look BBC right in the face and to thine own self be true.
0:24:00 > 0:24:05Take it or leave it, I don't care how you feel about it, I'm clean
0:24:05 > 0:24:09inside and this is who I am and I learned that from my mother.Gene
0:24:09 > 0:24:14Simmons, thank you for coming on.It was a pleasure to see me.