0:00:01 > 0:00:11Now it's time for HARDtalk.
0:00:11 > 0:00:18Welcome to HARDtalk. I'm Zeinab Badawi.
0:00:18 > 0:00:19My guest today is funny.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21Comedian, actor and disability advocate Maysoon Zayid,
0:00:21 > 0:00:24who was born in the United States to Palestinian immigrant parents.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Since birth, she has been living with cerebral palsy,
0:00:27 > 0:00:35a condition that affects the brain and nervous system.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37The conversation explores the power of comedy,
0:00:37 > 0:00:39particularly its ability to help people overcome disadvantage
0:00:39 > 0:00:41and prejudice, and asks where the line needs
0:00:41 > 0:00:54to be draw between humour and going too far.
0:00:54 > 0:01:01THEME MUSIC PLAYS
0:01:18 > 0:01:27Maysoon Zayid, welcome to HARDtalk Thank you so much for having me.A
0:01:27 > 0:01:31really want to shake your hand at a shake too much to do so.Consider it
0:01:31 > 0:01:38done. You said that you could win the gold medal of pressure Olympics.
0:01:38 > 0:01:45I would definitely win the gold medal, I am Palestinian, Muslim, a
0:01:45 > 0:01:50woman of colour, disabled and I live in Donald Trump's America. You do
0:01:50 > 0:01:56not get more oppressed than that.We will come to Donald Trump's America
0:01:56 > 0:02:01perhaps a little bit later. What does it mean to have cerebral palsy.
0:02:01 > 0:02:10In my case might cerebral palsy was a result of the Doctor Who delivered
0:02:10 > 0:02:17me being drunk so it now I appear to be drunk the entire time even that I
0:02:17 > 0:02:21sober. It is a neurological disorder that affects muscle co-ordination
0:02:21 > 0:02:30and it affects people differently. You have said, however, you have 99
0:02:30 > 0:02:37problems and cerebral palsy is just one of them. Have you always had
0:02:37 > 0:02:40such a positive attitude towards your condition and where does it
0:02:40 > 0:02:48come from?I was raised as an equal by my parents. My parents
0:02:48 > 0:02:54acknowledged my disability, they accommodate for it did not focus on.
0:02:54 > 0:03:00Whatever my sisters had to do, I had to do. If they were cleaning, if
0:03:00 > 0:03:04they went to public school, my parents fought and made sure a two
0:03:04 > 0:03:08could go to public school. When I was born the doctors told my parents
0:03:08 > 0:03:13I would never walk. This is something really important. There is
0:03:13 > 0:03:20no shame in it not walk in, using a wheelchair, a Walker, a cane, and
0:03:20 > 0:03:26sometimes people say it will check bound by that is incorrect. Mobility
0:03:26 > 0:03:32frees people. When I was born I was born into different worlds. My
0:03:32 > 0:03:38father was determined to teach me how to book.So you derive that kind
0:03:38 > 0:03:42of positive attitude from York close-knit Palestinian family, in
0:03:42 > 0:03:49particular your late father?My father encouraged me and my mother
0:03:49 > 0:03:55strengthened me. My mother is a tiger mum. She showed no mercy. The
0:03:55 > 0:04:01other day I was on TV, she told me my hair looked terrible and I Was
0:04:01 > 0:04:06Glad she told the because I'd learnt for the next time. My father was
0:04:06 > 0:04:13made cheerleader. He kept saying you can do it, yes you can can. He
0:04:13 > 0:04:17really believed I could do anything I dreamt of and encourage me to take
0:04:17 > 0:04:24chances and also to accept when I could not.You have spoken paid
0:04:24 > 0:04:29would walk on your father's feet and he would dangle a dollar note in
0:04:29 > 0:04:35order to entice you to walk as much as possible. That is one small
0:04:35 > 0:04:41example of how you do make jokes about having cerebral palsy...And
0:04:41 > 0:04:47how he approached it in a fun way. The dollar bill was really what
0:04:47 > 0:04:52worked the best Premier because my inner stripper was so strong that I
0:04:52 > 0:05:04was running in the lead as by kindergarten -- in stiletto.Might
0:05:04 > 0:05:08some people see it as making light of something which is quite serious
0:05:08 > 0:05:12and restricting the many people because of the way society deals
0:05:12 > 0:05:16with people with disabilities?I talk about my disability honestly
0:05:16 > 0:05:21and with humour, making it more accessible and less frightening.
0:05:21 > 0:05:27That applies to people with disabilities and also to caretakers
0:05:27 > 0:05:37and parents. It is so important that we destigmatise disability. My
0:05:37 > 0:05:45disability is visible but others are invisible. We do not acknowledge the
0:05:45 > 0:05:52fact that sometimes babies are not healthy. I want people to see that
0:05:52 > 0:05:56regardless of what disability a person has, they still have
0:05:56 > 0:06:02potential, they can have joy and love. People think of people with
0:06:02 > 0:06:06disabilities as happy angels who never grow up and they get married
0:06:06 > 0:06:11and don't have kids but we have the potential to live full lives whether
0:06:11 > 0:06:19we are global, non-verbal, mobile, you mobile. I approach my disability
0:06:19 > 0:06:25the way I approach my other 98th problems. It empowers people and
0:06:25 > 0:06:32helps not fear disability in others. When you saw your more able body
0:06:32 > 0:06:36sisters and you so you perhaps could not do everything they could, did
0:06:36 > 0:06:43you feel in any way angry and frustrated?I did not really feel
0:06:43 > 0:06:48disabled until got to college. In addition to my family, my friends
0:06:48 > 0:06:54were very supportive. I have the same best friends as since I was
0:06:54 > 0:06:59five years old. You are in a mainstream school. Yes, my parents
0:06:59 > 0:07:03had to fight to get me in a mainstream school. They wanted to
0:07:03 > 0:07:13send me to a special school with children with down syndrome. If I
0:07:13 > 0:07:17did not go to a mainstream school would not be sitting here. One of
0:07:17 > 0:07:22the most important things in the world is to make sure children with
0:07:22 > 0:07:28disabilities...Including those with Down's syndrome...All disabilities,
0:07:28 > 0:07:35we all have a right to education and not everyone is going to be a hard
0:07:35 > 0:07:43surgeon. I certainly do not have the cord and nation. -- heart surgeon.
0:07:43 > 0:07:48You make a living from being a stand-up comedian and making jokes
0:07:48 > 0:07:55about your disability one is about the car park.At some point people
0:07:55 > 0:07:59have jabbed about being disabled. It is Christmas evil, looking for
0:07:59 > 0:08:05parking. You sit 16 empty handicapped spaces and you wish, can
0:08:05 > 0:08:11I just be a little disabled but also, there is a flipside to that. I
0:08:11 > 0:08:17use of the disabled parking and some people don't realise that I disabled
0:08:17 > 0:08:21so we have to understand that disability does not all look the
0:08:21 > 0:08:26same in every person.But making jokes like that, it takes a lot of
0:08:26 > 0:08:31skill to take on what some people see as a taboo subject. Where do you
0:08:31 > 0:08:37draw the line between humour and what ends up just making fun,
0:08:37 > 0:08:43mocking someone with a disability?I tell personal stories and because I
0:08:43 > 0:08:48do that, I do not believe their Ariza line I can cross. Comedy is
0:08:48 > 0:08:53taking risks. Comedy you're always pushing that line.Where is that
0:08:53 > 0:09:01line? Your jokes might encourage somebody to block a person with a
0:09:01 > 0:09:07disability is?The line I draw is a do not find humour in cruelty so I
0:09:07 > 0:09:11have stopped using words that are painful to people, I stop mocking
0:09:11 > 0:09:18things that hurt people because I want my audience to be happy and
0:09:18 > 0:09:25laugh, I do not want to invoke their darkest memories, trauma and pain.
0:09:25 > 0:09:31It is always putting my audience players.Rick Vasa has made jokes
0:09:31 > 0:09:39about a dead baby, breaking the law or causing someone actual physical
0:09:39 > 0:09:46harm, hurting someone feelings is almost impossible to objectively
0:09:46 > 0:09:53quantify, and to you agree?I absolutely agree. I did several dead
0:09:53 > 0:10:01baby jokes because context matters at comedy is subjective. I make
0:10:01 > 0:10:08choices because I do not find being abusive funny but, if someone else
0:10:08 > 0:10:12can take something super dramatic and make it funny, it is their right
0:10:12 > 0:10:18to try and do so.Do you think you have more of a right to make comedy
0:10:18 > 0:10:22about people with disabilities because you are someone with a
0:10:22 > 0:10:27disability yourself. Joan Rivers made jokes about the Holocaust were
0:10:27 > 0:10:34she said that is OK because I am Jewish.I feel the same way about
0:10:34 > 0:10:37disability. I do not find it entertaining all humourous when
0:10:37 > 0:10:42comedians who do not have disabilities mock or imitate
0:10:42 > 0:10:51disabilities. It is part of who I am...It gives you the right?The
0:10:51 > 0:10:55same way that a person of colour has a right to talk about being a person
0:10:55 > 0:11:01of colour. It gives me the right to talk about it. But I never pretend
0:11:01 > 0:11:07that... I have no right to go on stage and not an intellectual
0:11:07 > 0:11:12disability just because I happen to be disabled. The fact that I have a
0:11:12 > 0:11:15personal connection allows me to talk about it in a way that others
0:11:15 > 0:11:22should not, honestly.You have ended up on social media being in the
0:11:22 > 0:11:30object of bullying. I mean, that is the kind of risk you run?I have
0:11:30 > 0:11:35been subjected to a lot of bullying online. In the past two years, I
0:11:35 > 0:11:40have been subjected to death threats. I took the guys who do
0:11:40 > 0:11:47comedy with me and they never do get threats like that. They have people
0:11:47 > 0:11:54say they want to punch them. I have people say I going to rape you so
0:11:54 > 0:11:59your father on it kills you. It is a deeply frightening world out there
0:11:59 > 0:12:04but I refused to be silent. While I was subjected to bullying, I talk
0:12:04 > 0:12:11about it in my head talk and when I did, I had women, teens, girls,
0:12:11 > 0:12:20worldwide reach out and say I have been bullied. -- TED.I gave them
0:12:20 > 0:12:28the power to survive. Why not just ignore them as Mac I am a comedian
0:12:28 > 0:12:32and we are used to being heckled and when someone heckles are you you
0:12:32 > 0:12:36need to take them down.My presses is I tried to educate firstly
0:12:36 > 0:12:46because you would not believe how many people are genuinely ignorant.
0:12:46 > 0:12:53You are upset by the bullying also? I am upset by the death threats, I
0:12:53 > 0:12:59disturbed by the bullying. It does not make me go and be subconscious
0:12:59 > 0:13:10abound my lips, the fact I slowed a bit. It makes me go, I am on TV and
0:13:10 > 0:13:17you are not. It empowers me. The death threats scare me.Do you wish
0:13:17 > 0:13:24at any time you had not sought such a high-profile?If I had grown up
0:13:24 > 0:13:28with social media would never have stepped good on television but now
0:13:28 > 0:13:34it is my destiny and I will not let anyone take me down.Why not just to
0:13:34 > 0:13:41get your disability is? One British comedian has said about her cerebral
0:13:41 > 0:13:46palsy, I have accepted it. I wasted years worrying about the way I
0:13:46 > 0:13:50talked and what. She says she is no longer defined by cerebral palsy a
0:13:50 > 0:13:55quick look outside by tiny world was enough to me to feel guilty.
0:13:55 > 0:14:05Millions of others live in war, poverty,...
0:14:05 > 0:14:11Cerebral palsy doesn't define who I am. I accepted, but it is part of my
0:14:11 > 0:14:15story. ICAC be to include it in my comedy because it's part of who I
0:14:15 > 0:14:21am. -- I am happy to include. If I want to take a drink right now I
0:14:21 > 0:14:25need a straw. Depending that's not the reality does nothing to lessen
0:14:25 > 0:14:29the impact my life.You went to university in Arizona and studied
0:14:29 > 0:14:34drama. You said how you were very disappointed when there was a role
0:14:34 > 0:14:38in a drama which needed somebody with cerebral palsy and they cast an
0:14:38 > 0:14:45able-bodied person in the role.So I was a straight-A student in theatre.
0:14:45 > 0:14:50I knew I had talent, a new eye was a good actress and I knew I wasn't
0:14:50 > 0:14:54getting cast but I didn't know why. Senior year they had a story about a
0:14:54 > 0:14:58girl with cerebral palsy and I was like... I was literally born to do
0:14:58 > 0:15:03this. And then I didn't get the role and when I asked why they said it
0:15:03 > 0:15:08was because I couldn't do the stumps. The reality was -- stunts.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12The reality was the university was reflecting Hollywood, which shuns
0:15:12 > 0:15:16people with disabilities. We are by far the largest minority in the
0:15:16 > 0:15:22world. We are 20% of the population and only 2% of the images you see on
0:15:22 > 0:15:29American television. Of those 2% 95% are played by nondisabled actors. A
0:15:29 > 0:15:33lot of us in the disability community, which is kind of led by
0:15:33 > 0:15:37me, I'm kind of the queen of us, find it very offensive for
0:15:37 > 0:15:44nondisabled actors to play disability on screen. We think of it
0:15:44 > 0:15:47like race. It's not something that you can act. When someone plays
0:15:47 > 0:15:54cerebral palsy and they are twitching and flailing about, that's
0:15:54 > 0:15:59not what the disability years and it's offensive, inauthentic and it
0:15:59 > 0:16:02takes away our opportunities.As well as being someone with a
0:16:02 > 0:16:06disability you are also an Arab American and another way you've
0:16:06 > 0:16:09tried to use your comedy is you've tried to normalise the perceptions
0:16:09 > 0:16:13of Muslims when many are really seeking to demonise them. In 2003
0:16:13 > 0:16:18you co-founded the New York Arab American comedy festival and he
0:16:18 > 0:16:21travelled all over the world to showcase the talents of Arab
0:16:21 > 0:16:26Americans right across the entertainment industry. Do you feel
0:16:26 > 0:16:29that Arabs or Muslims in the entertainment industry are also
0:16:29 > 0:16:34getting a raw deal?Yeah. Starting off with Arabs, it was Arab and
0:16:34 > 0:16:39Muslim isn't synonymous. Arabs were trailblazers in American comedy. We
0:16:39 > 0:16:46have Danny Thomas, this great comedic figures. Posted 911 we
0:16:46 > 0:16:50became caricatures of terrorists and nothing more and so that was
0:16:50 > 0:16:53something I was really concerned about shifting and giving Arabs the
0:16:53 > 0:16:58opportunity to be seen on screen as something other than a taxi driver
0:16:58 > 0:17:03terrorist. But also being the person of colour is a challenge and Arab is
0:17:03 > 0:17:07considered a person of colour, so you have to break through that
0:17:07 > 0:17:12barrier.I was going to say, couldn't it be an advantage? One
0:17:12 > 0:17:15Arab actors said recently that when he complained about being depicted
0:17:15 > 0:17:20as a terrorist and saying it was racial profiling he was told, you're
0:17:20 > 0:17:26lucky and you can use your ethnicity as a playing card in which the
0:17:26 > 0:17:30industry overlooks white actors. That's an obscene comment, that
0:17:30 > 0:17:35people even consider that being a minority in Hollywood is a good
0:17:35 > 0:17:41thing. It's not. We are still completely outnumbered.But it's not
0:17:41 > 0:17:53just him, others have Arab heritage. One of them won an Emmy.He was put
0:17:53 > 0:18:02on screen by an Arab. People breakthrough, matter who they are.
0:18:02 > 0:18:07There are always exceptions to the rule. At the reality is I haven't
0:18:07 > 0:18:12been given that opportunity. I had to write my own TV show to get on
0:18:12 > 0:18:21television. I have a deal from my own sitcom with universal studios. I
0:18:21 > 0:18:26can't even get a guest role to play as before I star on my own show.
0:18:26 > 0:18:31That's how wants discrimination there is. So when we have
0:18:31 > 0:18:35breakthrough stars, people who defy the odds, it's because they defy the
0:18:35 > 0:18:39odds. It's not because there are genuinely more opportunities for
0:18:39 > 0:18:43minorities than white people. On television.Especially with
0:18:43 > 0:18:49disability. You said Arab and Muslim of course are not synonymous and you
0:18:49 > 0:18:53are absolutely right, but when it comes to the way Muslims are
0:18:53 > 0:18:59perceived the American actor Samuel L Jackson says young Muslim
0:18:59 > 0:19:02Americans need to start telling their stories in the same way that
0:19:02 > 0:19:07African-Americans fought and found ways to make films about their lives
0:19:07 > 0:19:12and experiences. Do you see people doing that?Is it happening? I
0:19:12 > 0:19:16absolutely see people doing that and I'm one of the people who is doing
0:19:16 > 0:19:19that. I think I have a real privilege as a Muslim because as a
0:19:19 > 0:19:23Muslim woman I am not what people picture when they think of a Muslim
0:19:23 > 0:19:28woman, but I represent a lot of other Muslim women. Not every Muslim
0:19:28 > 0:19:35woman chooses to cover. Most Muslim women are not being oppressed in
0:19:35 > 0:19:40America, where I live and where a corrupt. So I think it's a great
0:19:40 > 0:19:44opportunity for me to have written a show with a Muslim family as a
0:19:44 > 0:19:48centrepiece, where the father is devout, the mother is a doctor who
0:19:48 > 0:19:53doesn't believe in God, to show that Muslims are again not a monolith. We
0:19:53 > 0:19:58are not all these one note screaming terrorists that we are depicted as
0:19:58 > 0:20:03on television, that Muslim women to look like me, that you can be devout
0:20:03 > 0:20:10and have faith, and still live 100% at Clematis to the American
0:20:10 > 0:20:16lifestyle that I think right now they are trying to other as. --
0:20:16 > 0:20:21acclimatise. So people often say to me, go back to your own country, and
0:20:21 > 0:20:26I say, where? New Jersey? Audrey tell me I have to accept Jesus and I
0:20:26 > 0:20:33say I do, he is a profit in Islam. -- or they tell me.Despite your
0:20:33 > 0:20:39initial comment about living in Donald Trump's America, when you
0:20:39 > 0:20:44look at all the opinion polls, Arab Americans are actually quite well
0:20:44 > 0:20:48integrated as US citizens. When you look at the indices they are better
0:20:48 > 0:20:53off than the average person in the population, they've got high
0:20:53 > 0:20:58education achievements and that sort of thing.So it's not all bad. It's
0:20:58 > 0:21:07not all bad and again Arab Islam isn't a monolith, some are more
0:21:07 > 0:21:11integrated, some are less, but also 80% of Americans are Christian and
0:21:11 > 0:21:15that has an impact on their ability to blend in.Seizing the problem is
0:21:15 > 0:21:21more of a Muslim one than an Arab one? -- so you see.I do and that's
0:21:21 > 0:21:25different to a decade ago. Right now it is absolutely terrifying to be
0:21:25 > 0:21:30Muslim in America.Why?We are under siege every day. Hate against
0:21:30 > 0:21:37Muslims is mainstream. Courts agree with hate against Muslims and we are
0:21:37 > 0:21:43not really given a voice to combat the negative images that are being
0:21:43 > 0:21:51displayed of us.Do you experience it yourself?Every day. I feel the
0:21:51 > 0:21:58anti-Muslim sentiment every day.In what way?I was living in the New
0:21:58 > 0:22:01York area posts 9/11 and I never felt this kind of hate and backlash
0:22:01 > 0:22:06and dehumanisation. First of all I do find it very disturbing that an
0:22:06 > 0:22:11American president can invoke and incite violence against Muslims
0:22:11 > 0:22:16without any ramifications.He wouldn't say that, he just says...
0:22:16 > 0:22:21Are you referring to the videos?To the rhetoric and the videos.He
0:22:21 > 0:22:25would just say he is stating facts, that there's a problem with
0:22:25 > 0:22:29terrorism that is committed by people of the Muslim faith and he is
0:22:29 > 0:22:34just stating facts.IT is not actually stating facts. As somebody
0:22:34 > 0:22:38who is watching it, I know that he is inciting violence against me. I
0:22:38 > 0:22:45know he is ignoring the true dangers in America. I mean, in Las Vegas,
0:22:45 > 0:22:52600 people were shot. That's a true risk.Finally, you go to the
0:22:52 > 0:22:54Palestinian territories, you've worked with refugees, bringing
0:22:54 > 0:23:00comedy as a kind of therapy to change people's lives. You've talked
0:23:00 > 0:23:05about how you use comedy for people with disabilities, Muslim Americans,
0:23:05 > 0:23:10that kind of thing. Does comedy really have the power to do all
0:23:10 > 0:23:14that? To transform lives and attitudes in society?Comedy
0:23:14 > 0:23:18absolutely has the ability to transform lives. I always say if
0:23:18 > 0:23:22someone is laughing at you they are less likely to kill you, but also if
0:23:22 > 0:23:25someone is laughing they are more likely to understand something that
0:23:25 > 0:23:29they never understood before. Because there a difference between
0:23:29 > 0:23:33lecturing a person or yelling a person for saying something ignorant
0:23:33 > 0:23:37and getting on stage and doing a joke and having them realise, I'm
0:23:37 > 0:23:49the biggest, I'm the one who didn't know the facts. -- bigot. This woman
0:23:49 > 0:23:53is a Muslim and there's no reason for me to hate her. When I do it
0:23:53 > 0:23:56worldwide it's more about the disability because when I do comedy
0:23:56 > 0:24:00worldwide I am putting out an image a lot of people have never seen. A
0:24:00 > 0:24:04functional independent disabled person. And it lets them know they
0:24:04 > 0:24:09have the potential, or their child has the potential, the XL in the
0:24:09 > 0:24:17same way I have.Thank you so much for coming on HARDtalk you are so
0:24:17 > 0:24:23welcome.And if I can can, you can can!