0:00:00 > 0:00:03in a calendar month.
0:00:03 > 0:00:09Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11Welcome to HARDtalk, with me, Zeinab Badawi.
0:00:11 > 0:00:16My guest has been celebrated here at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19He's been given an award for his philanthropic work
0:00:19 > 0:00:21advancing women's rights.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24He's Shah Rukh Khan, the Bollywood superstar whose fan
0:00:24 > 0:00:27base runs into the billions.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30He says he wants to make the world a better place,
0:00:30 > 0:00:38but how far is he really using his voice to do that?
0:00:50 > 0:00:53Shah Rukh Khan, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Thank you very much, Zeinab, and thank you very much
0:00:55 > 0:00:57for having me over at HARDtalk.
0:00:58 > 0:00:59Very glad to have you.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Look, after graduating from the University of Delhi,
0:01:01 > 0:01:03you dropped out of a Masters degree in communications
0:01:04 > 0:01:05to become an actor.
0:01:05 > 0:01:07I take it you have no regrets?
0:01:07 > 0:01:11It was either being a journalist or being an actor, so I,
0:01:11 > 0:01:13I was actually training to be a film-maker.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15They didn't have a film-making course there.
0:01:15 > 0:01:21I'm really an actor by accident.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25I'm really an actor by accident because I went down and I said,
0:01:25 > 0:01:28OK, I'll start working in front of the camera because some people
0:01:28 > 0:01:29offered me a film.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32But behind the scenes I learned how to make ad films,
0:01:32 > 0:01:34I wanted to make advertising films.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37And when my wife, now wife, then just about to be wife,
0:01:37 > 0:01:40and my friends asked me, how long are you gone for?
0:01:40 > 0:01:43I said a year.
0:01:43 > 0:01:44That's it.
0:01:44 > 0:01:45And it's been 30 years now.
0:01:45 > 0:01:46The accidental actor.
0:01:46 > 0:01:47I'm the accidental actor.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50All right, well, your debut movie was romantic drama Deewana
0:01:50 > 0:01:51in the early 1990s.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53And thereafter you very quickly established yourself
0:01:53 > 0:01:54as a very successful actor.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57You've made around 80 Bollywood movies, I think.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59About 65, 70, yeah.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02Yeah, all right. Which is your most favourite one?
0:02:02 > 0:02:05The next one. The next movie coming up.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08That the favourite one. Every time it's the next one.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12Really?
0:02:12 > 0:02:15When the one is finished, then it's over and done with.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18But I've done some really wonderful films, some really nice people
0:02:18 > 0:02:20I never expected to work with.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23Mr Yash Chopra made a film called Darr with me.
0:02:23 > 0:02:24Where I was a bad guy.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26It's like kind of like Cape Fear.
0:02:26 > 0:02:27So I was...
0:02:27 > 0:02:30When I started off working I remember I remember this wonderful
0:02:30 > 0:02:33director calling me and I said, the reason you're interesting
0:02:33 > 0:02:35to work with is because you're very unattractive.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38And we can put you in any role and nobody will know.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43So I started off like that.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45So I did a lot of bad guy roles.
0:02:45 > 0:02:46I really enjoyed them.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49But you've really made your name as a romantic lead, I think.
0:02:49 > 0:02:53I don't know how, I'm shy with women, and then every time
0:02:53 > 0:02:56they keep giving me these roles and make me sing and dance.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58I'm, I'm really awkward with romance.
0:02:58 > 0:02:59But I guess acting is like that.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02What you really bad at is what you finally act out
0:03:02 > 0:03:05better, you know, it's that kind of line.
0:03:05 > 0:03:07Your upcoming film this year is going to be Zero,
0:03:07 > 0:03:11which is about a man who has, is of restricted height and falls
0:03:11 > 0:03:13in love with a very flamboyant woman.
0:03:13 > 0:03:14Quite a departure for you.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18I just want to say, you said in 2015, we have to change
0:03:18 > 0:03:19the format of our films.
0:03:19 > 0:03:23I always say this, if I'm invited to your party I need to dress up
0:03:23 > 0:03:25in the code that you tell me to.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29Do you think that Bollywood films need to change in order to appeal
0:03:29 > 0:03:30to an audience beyond their current?
0:03:30 > 0:03:34They have two, they have two, I stick by this even till about four
0:03:34 > 0:03:37days ago I was having a bit discussion with some friends.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40And maybe I'm completely wrong, but this is my belief,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43that unless we change our screenplay technique, unless we make our films
0:03:43 > 0:03:46shorter, and perhaps, yeah, you can have the musical part of it,
0:03:47 > 0:03:49but they have to be musical specific films.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51Not every film can't have song and dance.
0:03:51 > 0:03:59Let's just change these two things.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02Because they're about two and a half hours long, and average...
0:04:02 > 0:04:04They're longer, they have an interval, they have
0:04:04 > 0:04:05three acts, films.
0:04:05 > 0:04:07It should be in two acts without an interval.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10Your opinion changes, doesn't it, a bit, Shah Rukh Khan.
0:04:10 > 0:04:14Because in 2006 after spending a few months in LA, London and New York
0:04:14 > 0:04:17you said, I found that our cinema is a little exaggerated,
0:04:17 > 0:04:18which, as you said now...
0:04:18 > 0:04:21But you said to make a mark in the West we have
0:04:22 > 0:04:24to reach their level without losing our identity,
0:04:24 > 0:04:24culture or songs.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27I don't want to star in a Hollywood film,
0:04:27 > 0:04:30but want to make a film that crosses over universally.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33It sounds like you're trying to have the best of both worlds,
0:04:33 > 0:04:34and you really do that?
0:04:34 > 0:04:36Maintain your culture and identity?
0:04:36 > 0:04:39This is personally me, because I don't think I'd be able
0:04:39 > 0:04:42to participate in a crossover film where we need to change.
0:04:42 > 0:04:43If you need to.
0:04:43 > 0:04:47I meet my friends and they say, look, we need to take the film
0:04:47 > 0:04:47International.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50If you take the film International you have to make it for 90
0:04:50 > 0:04:51minutes without songs.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54Would have to be more character driven, would have to be extremely
0:04:54 > 0:04:57screenplayed like, you know, I've sat in London cinema theatres
0:04:57 > 0:04:59with friends and English people who are like...
0:04:59 > 0:05:00You have an interval?
0:05:00 > 0:05:03There's a second half, there two halves to a film?
0:05:03 > 0:05:06Which itself is, you know, if you're looking for an international
0:05:06 > 0:05:09audience, personally, when people ask me what do I enjoy
0:05:09 > 0:05:11doing most, I like doing what I'm doing.
0:05:11 > 0:05:12Singing and dancing.
0:05:12 > 0:05:12Really?
0:05:12 > 0:05:15But you say I don't want to star in Hollywood film.
0:05:15 > 0:05:15Really?
0:05:15 > 0:05:19Also I wasn't offered to many, so that was the best way to say it!
0:05:20 > 0:05:22I don't want to star in a Hollywood film.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25You're repeatedly the second best paid actor in the whole
0:05:25 > 0:05:25world whatever nationality.
0:05:25 > 0:05:26I wish!
0:05:26 > 0:05:28Well, your way up there anyway.
0:05:28 > 0:05:29You're not complaining are you?
0:05:29 > 0:05:32I need to tell you a story, then we'll go on with this.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36I was driving down to my office, I was making a film,
0:05:36 > 0:05:37which was called Happy New Year.
0:05:37 > 0:05:38Very expensive film.
0:05:38 > 0:05:40We had to create this whole visual effect,
0:05:41 > 0:05:42of this world dance championship in Dubai.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45So I was driving down and my producer called me
0:05:45 > 0:05:47and he said, we have no money.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49And I said, yeah, so what do I do?
0:05:49 > 0:05:53Can I make some visits to someplace and do some openings so I can
0:05:53 > 0:05:54get some money?
0:05:54 > 0:05:58And he said, yeah, we really need to, because we don't have money,
0:05:58 > 0:05:59otherwise we'll have to borrow.
0:05:59 > 0:06:03And I reached my office and I put on my phone and while I was trying
0:06:03 > 0:06:06to find out ways to earn money to finish my film,
0:06:06 > 0:06:09this came out, that I'm the second richest actor in the world.
0:06:10 > 0:06:11Was it news to you?
0:06:11 > 0:06:14It was news to me, and I stick by it.
0:06:14 > 0:06:15Please continue saying it, it feels good.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17But you're not complaining are you?
0:06:17 > 0:06:18I'm not complaining at all.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20You've made a lot of money.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22I've made a lot of money.
0:06:22 > 0:06:23From many films.
0:06:23 > 0:06:23From many films.
0:06:23 > 0:06:28I always wanted to be rich, I always wanted to be famous.
0:06:28 > 0:06:29I come from a very, very, very poor background.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32Given a chance, I'll do it all over again.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34I'm just so happy being a star and so rich.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37But you have said that with that fame and wealth comes
0:06:37 > 0:06:37responsibilities.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40And you are here at Davos at the World Economic Forum
0:06:41 > 0:06:43where you've been celebrated for your work and philanthropy,
0:06:43 > 0:06:44you received the Crystal award.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48And you say you are committed to improving the state of the world
0:06:48 > 0:06:51and, in particular, the rights of women in your native India.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54But are you using your voice loudly enough, Shah Rukh Khan?
0:06:54 > 0:06:55No, I don't think so.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58You know, I have been, as I should be, extremely
0:06:58 > 0:07:02self-centred for a lot many years because I needed to do what I do.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05Like a regular guy, I want to make a lot of money,
0:07:05 > 0:07:08I want to be famous, I want to do my job.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11I'm sensitive because I'm an actor, or the other way round.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14There always has been two thoughts about turning around and doing
0:07:14 > 0:07:17something for the community for, you know, service to others.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19And I don't think I've done enough.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22Every time I've been asked upon, to do something, lend my voice
0:07:22 > 0:07:24to a project, I go ahead and do it.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27But personally I always felt I should get into something that
0:07:27 > 0:07:31I really feel for, and I want to do it without talking about it.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34Being here at Davos is also awkward for me, when I'm talking
0:07:34 > 0:07:37about the foundation that I set up three years back.
0:07:37 > 0:07:38But then...
0:07:38 > 0:07:40That's the Meer Foundation, named after your father.
0:07:40 > 0:07:42I think over the years I came to a conclusion,
0:07:43 > 0:07:45which was only four or five years back, to be honest,
0:07:46 > 0:07:48and like you said, I haven't used my voice enough,
0:07:48 > 0:07:49not at all.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52But now you've said at Davos, to disfigure a woman by throwing
0:07:52 > 0:07:56acid on her face is to me, one of the basest, crudest acts
0:07:56 > 0:07:57of subjugation imaginable.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01At the source of it lies the view that a woman does not have the right
0:08:01 > 0:08:02to assert her choice.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05Why did you choose this cause, acid attack survivors?
0:08:05 > 0:08:06A couple of things happened.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08You know, I'm surrounded by beautiful women.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11Like you said, I'm a romantic hero and I'm working with the most
0:08:11 > 0:08:13beautiful women in the world.
0:08:13 > 0:08:14My life is surrounded by women.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18Then I came across a couple of them, who were victims, who have been
0:08:18 > 0:08:20oppressed, who have been subjugated like this,
0:08:20 > 0:08:21and is very hurtful.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23I was scared to see them initially.
0:08:23 > 0:08:24You know, personally.
0:08:24 > 0:08:25Because they've been disfigured.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28And what I found was that I should go there and,
0:08:28 > 0:08:29you know, perhaps be charitable.
0:08:29 > 0:08:31I realised they don't that, they need solidarity.
0:08:32 > 0:08:34I thought you know, I can be this narcissistically compassionate
0:08:34 > 0:08:37person and turn around and say, look, I'll look after you,
0:08:37 > 0:08:40and I realised they don't need that.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42Is this part of a much wider problem?
0:08:42 > 0:08:45We know that women in India suffer all sorts of discrimination.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48Only 12% of members of Parliament in India are female,
0:08:48 > 0:08:51only 5% of women said they have the right to choose
0:08:51 > 0:08:52who they want to marry.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55I can go on and on with those statistics.
0:08:55 > 0:08:5780% need permission to go and access health care.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01Why do you think that's the state of affairs for women in India?
0:09:01 > 0:09:07What are these barriers?
0:09:07 > 0:09:10Except for the way, perhaps, women can come out now and talk
0:09:10 > 0:09:13in the West, I think the state of women has been this
0:09:14 > 0:09:15categorisation of women, by men of society.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17And defining it so strongly.
0:09:17 > 0:09:19I think it's what the fight for women, of women,
0:09:20 > 0:09:21against is all over.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24It is in India also and it is, I'm sure, in Japan also,
0:09:24 > 0:09:26and in England also, America also.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28And that is why somebody who's only working with women,
0:09:29 > 0:09:32I was like, I have to do something, one which I feel for.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35And try to again, uplift through my work and all I can.
0:09:35 > 0:09:43Just stand with them.
0:09:43 > 0:09:46Listen, you work in an industry which, to put it bluntly,
0:09:46 > 0:09:47Bollywood, is sexist.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50Men get paid more than the women.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52We've heard about the #MeToo campaign in Hollywood.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54That kind of thing must go on.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57We know it does because some actors have actually talked about that.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00Kangana Ranaut is one of the few Bollywood actresses whose publicly
0:10:00 > 0:10:02spoken about the sexual assault and harassment.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05She told Reuters, I faced severe sexual exploitation and harassment
0:10:05 > 0:10:07at the workplace.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10Have you witnessed this kind of thing, have you done
0:10:10 > 0:10:19anything about it?
0:10:20 > 0:10:23You know, I mean, personally at a level where I'm making films
0:10:23 > 0:10:26or working in films, we are very clear about the attitude
0:10:26 > 0:10:29to women, even the smallest aspects of the names coming in the title
0:10:29 > 0:10:31first, which is not going to do anything,
0:10:31 > 0:10:39but the kind of respectability.
0:10:39 > 0:10:41That's the thing you started a few years ago.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44So that your female co-star, her name appears before yours.
0:10:44 > 0:10:46That's just an empty gesture isn't it?
0:10:46 > 0:10:55It is.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58You don't have to push me too far to agree to this.
0:10:58 > 0:11:01It's a way of trying to say, even this, small thing,
0:11:01 > 0:11:04needs to be done, just to bring about equality,
0:11:04 > 0:11:05see what we've reduced ourselves to.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08To put a girl's name in front to show, look,
0:11:08 > 0:11:10guys, we are thinking of them as equals.
0:11:10 > 0:11:11And that is sad.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13And that is strangely dichotomous when you're
0:11:13 > 0:11:14talking about creativity.
0:11:14 > 0:11:16The boys and girls working together.
0:11:16 > 0:11:16I've never personally...
0:11:17 > 0:11:19Nobody dare miss behave with a woman on my set.
0:11:19 > 0:11:21I'm very clear on that.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24And your fellow actors haven't in the past said to you,
0:11:24 > 0:11:27you know what, Shah Rukh this and that happen to me?
0:11:27 > 0:11:29Or...
0:11:29 > 0:11:30It hasn't come...
0:11:30 > 0:11:33I've been close to the women I've worked with, nobody has said this.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35I never personally been told.
0:11:35 > 0:11:36On my set.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38You know, Zeinab, maybe it also stems from the fact,
0:11:38 > 0:11:39I've just been...
0:11:39 > 0:11:41My mother, my sister, my wife, my daughter,
0:11:41 > 0:11:45I've just been with women, so I've been brought up by women.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47You say that, but yet, you know, you have starred,
0:11:47 > 0:11:51as I said, as the romantic lead in so many Bollywood films.
0:11:51 > 0:11:53To put it frankly, you know, the women's characters
0:11:53 > 0:11:54revolve around yours.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57There are many scenes where there are scantily clad women
0:11:57 > 0:11:58without any real link to the plot.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01They don't have to be dressed like that.
0:12:01 > 0:12:03Are you comfortable starring, having starred in such films,
0:12:03 > 0:12:10yet here you are advocating women's rights?
0:12:10 > 0:12:12I'm most comfortable having starred in those films.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15And none of them, I mean, I'm trying to quickly see
0:12:16 > 0:12:24if there was a scantily clad woman in my film.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27I've spoken to Indian people here at the World Economic Forum
0:12:27 > 0:12:30and they say these other films that Shah Rukh Khan has acted in.
0:12:30 > 0:12:31Everything revolves around him and...
0:12:32 > 0:12:35The women gain salvation if she, you know, ends up marrying you.
0:12:36 > 0:12:37No, Zeinab, you asked the wrong people.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39My films, everything revolves around the woman.
0:12:39 > 0:12:41I revolve around the woman.
0:12:41 > 0:12:47In every film.
0:12:47 > 0:12:49I run after her, I please...
0:12:49 > 0:12:51Let me hit you with this bit of research.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54From 2012 from the University of Louisville in the US,
0:12:54 > 0:12:57which found commercial Hindi films portray ideal women as submissive,
0:12:57 > 0:12:59self-sacrificing, chased and controlled, while the bad women
0:12:59 > 0:13:00as individualistic, sexually aggressive,
0:13:00 > 0:13:01westernised and not sacrificing.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03It's got a lot of data that kind...
0:13:03 > 0:13:10I don't do typical Hindi films.
0:13:10 > 0:13:14Still, you might be tarred with the same brush even if you say,
0:13:14 > 0:13:20well, I don't do that kind of film.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24100% there is a portrayal of women which needs to change in every
0:13:24 > 0:13:25aspect, not only Indian films.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28One tries to as much as one can through 1's work.
0:13:28 > 0:13:31But yes, it exists, I mean, there is no denying it.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33Yes, this categorisation of humanity and women,
0:13:33 > 0:13:35you know, submissive, always trying to define them
0:13:35 > 0:13:37in society really so they are subservient
0:13:37 > 0:13:46to men, continues.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50And it does.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52But those are not the cinemas you look at.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56You can look at the sign and say, this is such a depressive,
0:13:56 > 0:14:00oppressive way of portraying women, or you can look at the other side.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03We make 1000 films, and you know, even if you're making 500 awful
0:14:03 > 0:14:04ones and 500...
0:14:04 > 0:14:0550 good ones...
0:14:05 > 0:14:09Where this has been tried to change, it's not just that the cinema
0:14:09 > 0:14:10is promoting it.
0:14:10 > 0:14:11Society believes in this.
0:14:11 > 0:14:12And it's being portrayed in cinema.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16And it is changing.
0:14:16 > 0:14:17That is the question.
0:14:17 > 0:14:19It's a very interesting thing you raise.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21Should Bollywood films, your films in particular,
0:14:21 > 0:14:23mirror society and reflect what their opinions are,
0:14:23 > 0:14:26or should we try to lead and reform opinion on harmful,
0:14:26 > 0:14:35negative stereotypes?
0:14:35 > 0:14:36I think it should do both.
0:14:36 > 0:14:37Cinema should do both.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41It should not does become one that I'm going to change the society.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44Some cinema should do that and some cinema should reflect society
0:14:44 > 0:14:48and take on things from real life, so that you can identify with them.
0:14:48 > 0:14:52I just read somewhere a couple of days ago,
0:14:52 > 0:14:55every artform is a lie but it is going towards proving some truth.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58So one lie would be mirroring society, the other one would be
0:14:58 > 0:15:01where you are trying to tell them to change it.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03So both kinds should happen.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06But the most commercially successful ones are going to be the ones that
0:15:06 > 0:15:08don't upset the apple cart too much.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12You have said we need to realise this is a business at the end
0:15:12 > 0:15:18of the day.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20However much you may think it's a creative field.
0:15:20 > 0:15:24So there's no point making a film that's too challenging and that it
0:15:24 > 0:15:26just bombs, it doesn't do well.
0:15:26 > 0:15:26Yeah.
0:15:26 > 0:15:28It would...
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Depending on how much of a challenge you take, the
0:15:30 > 0:15:32last five films of mine have bombed.
0:15:32 > 0:15:33Have they?
0:15:33 > 0:15:36Which will not make me turn around and do the typical film
0:15:36 > 0:15:36still.
0:15:36 > 0:15:37All right.
0:15:37 > 0:15:39You said last November that you believe in
0:15:39 > 0:15:39storytelling.
0:15:39 > 0:15:42He said, I believe no matter what your language, no matter
0:15:42 > 0:15:45what country you're story comes from, no matter what your ideology
0:15:45 > 0:15:48is, storytelling and listening should be a familiar experience
0:15:48 > 0:15:51which binds us all together, makes relationships stronger, even in the
0:15:51 > 0:15:52face of dissent and discussion.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54Could that refer to some of the intercommunal tensions
0:15:55 > 0:16:03and divisions that we see in modern day India?
0:16:03 > 0:16:05You see, I think that is essential.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07There will be dissent for everything.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10You would also believe, like we all believe, there has to be
0:16:10 > 0:16:16a discussion on it.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18There can't be a radical, you know, stand-off when
0:16:18 > 0:16:19there is dissent.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22I think if you can have a discussion and you talk
0:16:22 > 0:16:24about, in our country we are the biggest democracy.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27And if you're the biggest democracy, dissent is part
0:16:27 > 0:16:30and parcel of that.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33And, as much, is discussion.
0:16:33 > 0:16:35So when you have a story and, when you go out, sometimes
0:16:35 > 0:16:36there is dissent.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39As a film-maker, as a citizen of a country, as a
0:16:39 > 0:16:42citizen of the world, can we just have a bit of discussion
0:16:42 > 0:16:45about it and sort it out instead of taking,
0:16:45 > 0:16:46you know, stand-off positions?
0:16:46 > 0:16:49So it is possible.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Are you worried about stand-off positions, as you put it?
0:16:52 > 0:16:55Because there is a current of opinion, I've heard it expressed
0:16:55 > 0:16:59here at Davos from Indian delegates I've talked to about, you know,
0:16:59 > 0:17:06there is a certain tension.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08Some people feel that there is a kind of
0:17:09 > 0:17:13Hindu nationalism that really is not fostering good intercommunal ties.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16No, I don't think so.
0:17:16 > 0:17:18I was just telling people outside, because of
0:17:18 > 0:17:21social media, you know, whenever a certain thing you know, small
0:17:21 > 0:17:24factions or fractions of things happen, they seem a little bigger.
0:17:24 > 0:17:29But the beauty of all of this is within all this trolling and anger
0:17:29 > 0:17:34and people expressing themselves, they are all also connecting.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37So I feel this is, we're on the cusp of
0:17:37 > 0:17:38something amazingly inclusive and integrating
0:17:39 > 0:17:41in this kind of dissent.
0:17:41 > 0:17:45I just see it on social media, I haven't seen it live anywhere.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47I would be wrong to comment on it that
0:17:47 > 0:17:54way.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58If you have this kind of dissent, if people claim it, just a
0:17:58 > 0:18:01bit of discussion, finally, if it's not going to be inclusive,
0:18:01 > 0:18:01everybody will suffer.
0:18:01 > 0:18:06I think we are not in that stage at all in our country.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08You've tended to act most in your films
0:18:08 > 0:18:11as a non-Muslim Indian but in
0:18:11 > 0:18:14the last, in recent years, your last few films,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17My Name is Khan, for instance, in 2010, you're an Indian
0:18:17 > 0:18:21Muslim man with Asperger's syndrome, takes a challenge to speak to the US
0:18:21 > 0:18:23president seriously and embarks on a cross-country journey.
0:18:23 > 0:18:28Is your Muslim identity becoming more relevant to you now?
0:18:28 > 0:18:35No, no, no, I've never felt that.
0:18:35 > 0:18:37I think being an artist, I think, these things
0:18:37 > 0:18:39should be the last on
0:18:39 > 0:18:39your mind.
0:18:39 > 0:18:45The only film which required me to play Muslim was My
0:18:45 > 0:18:47Name is Khan, because it was a film like that,
0:18:47 > 0:18:49it was talking about the
0:18:49 > 0:18:51relationship of Islam with the Western world.
0:18:51 > 0:18:52The others are by chance.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54I read this article, some lady wrote it.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57I was really taken aback, I hadn't even realised it
0:18:57 > 0:19:00myself.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Dear Zindagi, and Raees, which is the third one
0:19:02 > 0:19:04and I'm Muslim in it.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07Suddenly, she's like, is Shah Rukh's now trying to put his identity
0:19:07 > 0:19:07forward.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10No, not at all, there was nothing of that sort.
0:19:10 > 0:19:11I didn't realise it.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13But there is controversy attached, because you
0:19:13 > 0:19:14just mentioned Raees in
0:19:14 > 0:19:182017, your co-star, Meera Khan, a Pakistani actor, hasn't it even
0:19:18 > 0:19:20been allowed to come to India to promote
0:19:20 > 0:19:24the film with you because there was this tension between India and
0:19:24 > 0:19:29Pakistan.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31You see, whenever there is tension between India and Pakistan,
0:19:32 > 0:19:34whenever there is tension, cricketers don't come to play any
0:19:34 > 0:19:35more.
0:19:35 > 0:19:38So whenever there's tension, I think there was at that point in
0:19:38 > 0:19:38time.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42As an artist, as an artist it's really sad because, you know, I
0:19:42 > 0:19:44think what everyone talks about should cross boundaries.
0:19:44 > 0:19:46And we should be inclusive and it's about
0:19:46 > 0:19:47love and sharing.
0:19:47 > 0:19:49But you know, when emotions run high, sometimes you
0:19:49 > 0:19:52don't do things that you would like to because,
0:19:52 > 0:19:55I think it's just safer and nicer and say, listen, we're
0:19:55 > 0:19:57artists, we don't want to get into part of dissent.
0:19:57 > 0:20:01But you get caught up in it and that was all, that's
0:20:01 > 0:20:01the point.
0:20:01 > 0:20:13She still can't go and promote the film.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16The easiest part of it is to just step back, you're
0:20:16 > 0:20:20an artist, just release your film, let people see, and realise there's
0:20:20 > 0:20:20nothing wrong.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23In the long run I think this will get sorted.
0:20:23 > 0:20:23Do you?
0:20:23 > 0:20:24Yeah.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27Now you've got a problem with Padmavat, which is a film, and it's
0:20:27 > 0:20:30about a 14th century Hindu Queen and a Muslim ruler.
0:20:30 > 0:20:30Fictitious film.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33But it's caused all sorts of fuss, you
0:20:33 > 0:20:33know.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36Went to the Supreme Court in India because people didn't want it
0:20:36 > 0:20:40shown and the Supreme Court says, no, it can be shown, freedom of
0:20:40 > 0:20:44speech and so on.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46Some cinemas said but we're not going to show
0:20:46 > 0:20:48this film because we're worried about violence.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51I mean surely you as, even though you say it's not
0:20:51 > 0:20:54relevant to your identity, the fact you're not only an Indian actor,
0:20:54 > 0:20:56icon, you're also a Muslim Indian icon,
0:20:56 > 0:20:57you should be commenting on
0:20:58 > 0:20:59this kind of issue.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01I take comment on the art part of it.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04And if I put any identity of me forward, even
0:21:04 > 0:21:05Indian Muslim identity, it's wrong.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08Because as an artist I should talk as an artist
0:21:08 > 0:21:09and, as an artist, I
0:21:09 > 0:21:13think whenever a film comes out, like we just talked about, if there
0:21:13 > 0:21:15is dissent, hopefully with discussion it will end.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17So I hope it ends with Padmavat also.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20I think there have been a lot of discussions
0:21:20 > 0:21:20on it.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24The other thing I don't want to do through your show is give any
0:21:24 > 0:21:26credibility and more conversation to a product
0:21:26 > 0:21:27which has already been in
0:21:27 > 0:21:29conversation for three months and confused issues further.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32I hope you know, at the end of it all, a
0:21:33 > 0:21:36film-maker or an actor or an artist, the only thing they want is the
0:21:36 > 0:21:39artwork is something that you can watch and enjoy at ease.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42So I wish for everybody's film, I've had these
0:21:42 > 0:21:44issues sometimes, you know, without realising, it seems I may
0:21:44 > 0:21:46have offended someone, I've changed it.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48I have no problems changing it because
0:21:48 > 0:21:50it's not a compromise, because this freedom
0:21:50 > 0:21:51of speech, expression...
0:21:51 > 0:21:54You, if you make little changes, if it's not going to...
0:21:54 > 0:21:57It should not hurt you, my art should not irk you
0:21:57 > 0:21:57and disturb you.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00But I asked you in the context of women's rights
0:22:00 > 0:22:03whether you would use your voice more loudly to try and promote
0:22:03 > 0:22:06women's rights and I put it to you that perhaps
0:22:06 > 0:22:08you ought to do that as
0:22:08 > 0:22:11it is a very famous Muslim icon, not just an Indian icon.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13You said a little while ago, couple of years
0:22:13 > 0:22:16ago, if there is a message I want to give, it
0:22:16 > 0:22:18would be good if there is
0:22:18 > 0:22:21no discrimination on the basis of religious caste, creed, sex or
0:22:21 > 0:22:21gender.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23would be good if there is
0:22:23 > 0:22:26no discrimination on the basis of religious caste, creed, sex or
0:22:26 > 0:22:26gender.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29Do you accept perhaps you should be using your voice?
0:22:29 > 0:22:33Yes, just as a human being, not as a Muslim icon or a movie star
0:22:33 > 0:22:37or an Indian, just as a human being I should be using it louder,
0:22:37 > 0:22:39I should be using it more often, I should use...
0:22:40 > 0:22:43I need to make myself a little more useful to this world.
0:22:43 > 0:22:44Inshallah I will.
0:22:44 > 0:22:46And I'll try my best in whatever way I can,
0:22:46 > 0:22:50and I think they do it, but none of us, I think,
0:22:50 > 0:22:51in the world, do enough.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53That is not an excuse not to do more.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56Your father, Meer Khan, was a great admirer of Mahatma
0:22:56 > 0:22:58Gandhi.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01He believed in unity, diversity, he was a devout Muslim.
0:23:01 > 0:23:07You named your foundation after him.
0:23:07 > 0:23:11Does his belief, his philosophy, inspired you now?
0:23:11 > 0:23:13The philosophy that inspired me to do Meer Foundation
0:23:13 > 0:23:18is the philosophy that might, I said this today and yesterday,
0:23:18 > 0:23:25my sister, my wife, and my daughter have taught me.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28They've brought me up well so that I have to request,
0:23:28 > 0:23:31I have to implore, sometimes beg, for a yes.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33Never force a woman for a yes.
0:23:33 > 0:23:35I think that philosophy is behind Meer Foundation.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38Where I really want to get, in which evidence, help out
0:23:38 > 0:23:42the woman, who has not been given the choice to say no,
0:23:42 > 0:23:45or be able to assert her choices, a little more effectively,
0:23:45 > 0:23:47get out of the sole definition that society, you know,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50women's only problem is we are defining them too much.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53They just want to be defined by themselves.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56If I can be part of that movement, part of that help, I think the three
0:23:57 > 0:24:00women in my house and the women that I work with, they are really
0:24:00 > 0:24:03helping me find this path and inshallah I'll be able
0:24:03 > 0:24:10to take it further.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13Shah Rukh Khan thank you very much indeed for coming on HARDtalk.
0:24:13 > 0:24:14Thank you.