0:00:02 > 0:00:04Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Stephen Sackur.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14In the spirit of marking his own homework, President Trump has
0:00:15 > 0:00:17already declared his foreign policy and outstanding success.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20So-called Islamic State vanquished, Iran put on notice, the Middle East
0:00:20 > 0:00:22reminded that America sticks by its friends and
0:00:22 > 0:00:26stands up to enemies.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29My guest today is Andrew Peek, Deputy Assistant Secretary
0:00:29 > 0:00:33of State, with responsibility for Iran and Iraq.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Is the Trump presidency really changing the rules
0:00:35 > 0:00:54of the game in the Middle East?
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Andrew Peek in Washington, DC, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:01:15 > 0:01:16Thank you so much.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18It's great to be here.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21If I may, I'm going to begin with some words of yours,
0:01:21 > 0:01:23written right after Donald Trump's extraordinary election win
0:01:23 > 0:01:24back in November 2016.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27You said, "America's role in the world will be fundamentally
0:01:27 > 0:01:30altered by this election and in the middle
0:01:30 > 0:01:30East, most of all."
0:01:30 > 0:01:33Well, now that you are inside the State Department,
0:01:33 > 0:01:36do you stand by that and in what way do you think this fundamental
0:01:36 > 0:01:44alteration has happened?
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Oh, I think there is a lot of common threads that run through American
0:01:47 > 0:01:49foreign policy from one administration to another.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53I think one of the alterations we saw was that in 2016
0:01:53 > 0:01:55there was a fundamental choice between a more hawkish foreign
0:01:55 > 0:01:58policy, that for the first time, really in a long time,
0:01:58 > 0:02:01was offered by the Democrats.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05And a more restrained foreign policy that was offered by Donald Trump,
0:02:05 > 0:02:07who sought to conserve American resources while still accomplishing
0:02:07 > 0:02:11a vital aims, kind of in the wake of the excesses of the Iraq war
0:02:11 > 0:02:14in 2003 and perhaps, the Libyan and Syrian interventions
0:02:14 > 0:02:15and nonintervention you know, respectively in 2011.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18I think there's been a different approach to the region.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21I think there has also been a reassurance of our traditional
0:02:21 > 0:02:24allies, Israel and the Sunni Gulf countries, of their security
0:02:24 > 0:02:26and America's commitment to regional stability.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29And also, I think there is a genuine focus on perhaps strengthening some
0:02:29 > 0:02:31of the holes or the, you know, challenges
0:02:32 > 0:02:53that are inherent in the Iranian nuclear deal
0:02:53 > 0:02:55that the Obama Administration left behind.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57OK, well there's plenty to unpack there.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00I'm just very struck by another turn of phrase of yours, you said,
0:03:00 > 0:03:04"we are going to see the end of America as a crusader
0:03:04 > 0:03:06and the return of America as a great power."
0:03:06 > 0:03:21What exactly did you mean by that?
0:03:21 > 0:03:24Well, I think this goes back to 2001, where in the Republican Party
0:03:24 > 0:03:26there's always been these two competing poles.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29There's been the kind of 1990s America as a great nation
0:03:29 > 0:03:32with a unique moral message, but not necessarily a proselytiser.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35And then I think after 2001, there was a definite shift
0:03:35 > 0:03:37to America the proselytiser, and America the country
0:03:37 > 0:03:39that spread democracy while wearing combat boots.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Which was a turn of phrase which in the last Bush
0:03:42 > 0:03:57administration, was quite common.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01And I think that really the election of Trump and some of the people that
0:04:01 > 0:04:03he's brought into office on the foreign policy side,
0:04:03 > 0:04:09reflect that slightly older republican tradition,
0:04:09 > 0:04:10the 1990s, the H W Bush.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13America the realist, not necessarily America the Evangelist.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16But you can't be a great power if the rest of the world doesn't
0:04:16 > 0:04:18really understand what you're doing.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20So let's get into your areas of responsibility
0:04:20 > 0:04:21and talk in some detail.
0:04:21 > 0:04:22Iran, first of all.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26I think it is fair to say the rest of the world is somewhat confused
0:04:27 > 0:04:29and indeed alarmed by your policy, that is US policy,
0:04:29 > 0:04:30towards Iran today.
0:04:30 > 0:04:35Can you try and assure me that you know what you are doing?
0:04:35 > 0:04:38I'm not sure I would make that general statement.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41I'm not sure that when you say the rest of the world,
0:04:41 > 0:04:43I know who you are talking about.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46OK, I will be clearer, fair point, I will be clear.
0:04:46 > 0:04:48The European Union, the Russians, even the IAEA,
0:04:48 > 0:04:51the nuclear watchdog authority, all believe the US is mistaken,
0:04:51 > 0:04:52fundamentally mistaken in its current approach
0:04:52 > 0:04:55to the nuclear deal with Iran, which of course was struck
0:04:55 > 0:04:58by the Obama Administration, amongst the other great powers
0:04:58 > 0:05:12with Iran and which Donald Trump now seems intent upon tearing up.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15Well, let me offer that in the countries that
0:05:15 > 0:05:17I most often deal with, Israel, the Sunni Gulf
0:05:17 > 0:05:19countries, Saudi Arabia, The Emirates and others,
0:05:19 > 0:05:21there's no confusion at all.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23In fact, they are greatly reassured by this Administration's approach
0:05:23 > 0:05:26to Iran, because they are living at the front line with
0:05:26 > 0:05:29the challenges that Iran and its regional behaviour plays.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31From my interactions with the European Union
0:05:31 > 0:05:34and Western European countries, I would say that I have found great
0:05:34 > 0:05:47interest in trying to address some of the challenges
0:05:48 > 0:05:49of the Iranians nuclear deal.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52If I may interrupt for a second, surely what matters most
0:05:52 > 0:05:55is the thinking in those partner countries that you did
0:05:55 > 0:05:56the deal with Iran with.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59Of course, that is the Europeans, the Russians and to quote the EU
0:06:00 > 0:06:01foreign affairs spokeswoman, Federica Mogherini, she says
0:06:01 > 0:06:04the deal is working, it is delivering on its main goal,
0:06:04 > 0:06:07which means keeping the Iranians nuclear programme in check.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10And as I said, the IAEA, which is the watchdog
0:06:10 > 0:06:12authority overseeing it says, "I can quite clearly state that Iran
0:06:13 > 0:06:14is implementing its nuclear related commitments."
0:06:14 > 0:06:25The views of these people matter, don't they?
0:06:25 > 0:06:26They sure do.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30I'mnot sure that I would be so bold as to say the views of the countries
0:06:31 > 0:06:33on the front line of Iran matter less than the countries
0:06:34 > 0:06:34in Western Europe.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38I think that would be a strong thing to say.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40I would bet that Israel and Saudi Arabia have very,
0:06:40 > 0:06:42very strong feelings about the Iranians nuclear deal.
0:06:42 > 0:06:51Indeed, I know they do, because I have talked to them.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55I know they do to because I read what they say, but nonetheless
0:06:55 > 0:06:58the point of that deal was to try to rein in
0:06:58 > 0:06:59Iran's nuclear programme.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02All of the experts who are given the responsibility of monitoring
0:07:02 > 0:07:03it, say it is working.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06I just want to figure out what you think Donald Trump
0:07:06 > 0:07:09is going to do next, because again, in terms of my point
0:07:10 > 0:07:12about confusing signals, we've had Mike Pence recently
0:07:12 > 0:07:14indicate that as far as he's concerned, the Trump administration
0:07:14 > 0:07:16is going to trash the deal.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18The deal is pretty much over.
0:07:18 > 0:07:20But we've had other members of the Trump team suggesting,
0:07:20 > 0:07:23Rex Tillerson, the Secretary of State is one of them,
0:07:23 > 0:07:25suggesting there is much more talking to be done.
0:07:26 > 0:07:38So what is going on right now?
0:07:38 > 0:07:40Well, I think the president has been reasonably clear.
0:07:40 > 0:07:44I think he wants, by May 12th, an agreement with the Europeans that
0:07:44 > 0:07:47will address some of the weaknesses that are inherent JCPOA,
0:07:47 > 0:07:49the Iran deal, that we inherited from the Obama administration.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51These are weaknesses like the linkage between
0:07:51 > 0:07:52sanctions and inspections.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55How quickly sanctions come back on if Iran doesn't comply
0:07:55 > 0:07:57or doesn't comply fully, or pushes back on inspections.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Or on ICBMs, why does a country make ICBMs,
0:08:00 > 0:08:02if not to carry a nuclear weapon?
0:08:02 > 0:08:04Thus, shouldn't ICBMs be considered part of a nuclear programme?
0:08:04 > 0:08:32That's a question we're working on with the Europeans also.
0:08:32 > 0:08:33And lastly, this issue...
0:08:33 > 0:08:34The Iranians with their...
0:08:35 > 0:08:37I'm sorry, hang on one second...
0:08:37 > 0:08:38The Iranians, on the intercontinental ballistic missiles,
0:08:38 > 0:08:41the Iranians aren't going to give ground on that, they've
0:08:41 > 0:08:42made that quite plain.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45They are not interested in giving new assurances on permanent
0:08:45 > 0:08:46restrictions on uranium enrichment.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49So there's really no wriggle room here and Donald Trump has put
0:08:49 > 0:08:51himself in the position where he says he won't
0:08:51 > 0:08:52certify the deal again.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55He has basically asked the Europeans to do the impossible
0:08:55 > 0:08:59and if they can't do the impossible, I just wonder, are you clear,
0:08:59 > 0:09:01is the United States clear, come May, sanctions will be
0:09:02 > 0:09:06reintroduced and as far as the US is concerned, the deal is over?
0:09:06 > 0:09:09Again, there's a couple of different areas that we're working on.
0:09:09 > 0:09:11A third one is the sunset clause, right?
0:09:11 > 0:09:14I think there's broad agreement that it's concerning that some of these
0:09:14 > 0:09:17safeguards begin to be lost after years eight, ten and so forth.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20I will say, with the Europeans, that there has been great interest
0:09:21 > 0:09:23in working to strengthen elements of the deal.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25The president has said, as you know, he's not
0:09:25 > 0:09:28going to waive sanctions again, he wants a follow on
0:09:28 > 0:09:29agreement with the E3.
0:09:29 > 0:09:36And I think that's pretty clear.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39It just comes to my point about the United States
0:09:39 > 0:09:41being a great power.
0:09:41 > 0:09:45If you are truly a great power, you would be showing the sort
0:09:45 > 0:09:48of leadership on this issue that would have your partner
0:09:48 > 0:09:49countries come with you.
0:09:49 > 0:09:53But they are not coming with you.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57In the end, it could well be a humiliating situation where the US
0:09:57 > 0:09:59is out on its own on this issue?
0:09:59 > 0:10:02But I think it is being a great power because other countries
0:10:02 > 0:10:05are greatly reassured by car approach to this issue.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07And the fact that one administration has a slightly
0:10:07 > 0:10:10different policy focus, or a greatly different policy focus,
0:10:10 > 0:10:12as in the case of this administration than the past
0:10:12 > 0:10:15administration, being a great power doesn't mean consistently doing
0:10:15 > 0:10:17exactly what was done the administration before.
0:10:17 > 0:10:19These are real concerns we have that are broadly shared
0:10:19 > 0:10:21by a lot of Americans.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24They broadly shared by a lot of the international community.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28And the fact the Iranians don't like them, I don't think mitigates
0:10:28 > 0:10:33the fact that we need address them.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37Again, I am just wondering what you mean, or what Donald Trump
0:10:37 > 0:10:39means by some of the words he uses.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42For example, during the recent spate of street protests in Iran,
0:10:42 > 0:10:49which mostly seem to be about issues of costs of living,
0:10:49 > 0:10:50but they became deeply political.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53Some people calling even for the end of the Islamic regime.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57Donald Trump said in his tweets, "the world is watching", he said,
0:10:57 > 0:10:58"it is time for change."
0:10:58 > 0:11:01So what is the United States doing in terms of engineering change
0:11:01 > 0:11:05and what sort of change do you realistically expect to see?
0:11:05 > 0:11:08You know, I thought the protests that broke out in Iran
0:11:08 > 0:11:09were so interesting.
0:11:09 > 0:11:11They were fundamentally different than in 2009.
0:11:11 > 0:11:20This was a different demographic, it was many working-class
0:11:20 > 0:11:20Iranians, more regional.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23They broke out in Iran's most conservative, or one
0:11:23 > 0:11:25of its most conservative cities, in Mashhad.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28You know, I would say that we want to see a change
0:11:28 > 0:11:40in Iran's behaviour.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42I think some of the economic hardships that are faced
0:11:42 > 0:11:45by Iranians, which contributed to the unrest in Iran,
0:11:45 > 0:11:47came from sanctions and responses by the international community
0:11:47 > 0:11:50to Iran's destabilising behaviour and I think reinforcing that link
0:11:50 > 0:11:53on behalf of the US is something we are quite committed to.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56You saw protesters chanting, "no to Lebanon", "yes to Iran".
0:11:56 > 0:12:08That sort of thing is a real undercurrent in Iran.
0:12:08 > 0:12:08Yeah.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11In addition to do basic weaknesses of the regime and the economic
0:12:11 > 0:12:13structure that it's trying to impose on its people.
0:12:14 > 0:12:14We want...
0:12:14 > 0:12:15Interesting that...
0:12:15 > 0:12:25Yeah, go ahead.
0:12:25 > 0:12:27Sorry, interesting that in your Iran policy,
0:12:27 > 0:12:30and you mentioned it in this interview, working and feeling that
0:12:30 > 0:12:33you are echoing the feelings of allies in the region
0:12:33 > 0:12:34like Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
0:12:34 > 0:12:35Egypt being described by many independent human rights
0:12:35 > 0:12:38organisations as more repressive now than at any time
0:12:38 > 0:12:39in its recent history.
0:12:39 > 0:12:41You are lining up with extremely repressive authoritarian regimes
0:12:41 > 0:12:44against a country where frankly, at least protesters feel they're
0:12:44 > 0:12:47able to take to the streets and voice their concerns.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50I am struggling again to see what values are principles the Trump
0:12:50 > 0:12:51administration is applying here.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54Well, what I would offer to you is that as it
0:12:54 > 0:12:57has in the past, the US makes its feelings on democracy,
0:12:57 > 0:12:59on pluralistic government, on basic rights, well-known
0:12:59 > 0:13:06across the board.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08This is not an Iran specific issue, this is regional.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11Hang on a second, please.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14With respect, if we're talking Egypt and President Sisi,
0:13:14 > 0:13:17the United States is signally silent and there is no condemnation.
0:13:17 > 0:13:18In some cases where we have a good relationship with countries,
0:13:18 > 0:13:20we do it in private.
0:13:20 > 0:13:22In other countries, we do it in public.
0:13:22 > 0:13:26There is not a one size fits all to how we make our concerns
0:13:26 > 0:13:27about human rights known.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30Simply, that would be untenable, we would have a galaxy of different
0:13:30 > 0:13:32hues of relationships with these countries.
0:13:32 > 0:13:42We address this issue differently in many cases.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45A final point on Iran and then we will move on.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48The former UK ambassador in the country and one of the UK
0:13:48 > 0:13:51negotiators involved in the Iran deal says of Donald Trump's
0:13:51 > 0:13:52interventions, rhetorical interventions in Iran,
0:13:53 > 0:13:57he said, "to try to insert yourself into the middle by too overt and too
0:13:57 > 0:14:00activist an approach, actually just plays into the hands
0:14:00 > 0:14:00of the hardliners in Iran."
0:14:00 > 0:14:12It's counter-productive.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16Yeah, well look, this is an argument that has been made in the foreign
0:14:16 > 0:14:20policy community since the 1970s, since the Helsinki act, right?
0:14:20 > 0:14:23I mean, how do you encourage the growth of freedoms
0:14:23 > 0:14:26in autocratic countries?
0:14:26 > 0:14:28I remember we had this exact same discussion under
0:14:28 > 0:14:31the Reagan Administration and in the late years of the Carter
0:14:31 > 0:14:33Administration.
0:14:33 > 0:14:35How do you engage with those countries?
0:14:35 > 0:14:38Do you engage through their government with the thought
0:14:38 > 0:14:40of improving the rights of the people?
0:14:40 > 0:14:43Or do you engage through civic society, which has traditionally
0:14:43 > 0:14:46been the US platform?
0:14:46 > 0:14:49So I think this is a continual policy debate in this town.
0:14:50 > 0:14:51This Administration has chosen to differentiate itself
0:14:51 > 0:14:54from the Obama Administration by siding loudly and vocally
0:14:54 > 0:15:00with the people who are on the streets getting beat up.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03OK, that's your template, "we are doing things differently
0:15:03 > 0:15:06from the Obama Administration".
0:15:06 > 0:15:09Let's leave Iran for a while and look at other parts
0:15:09 > 0:15:10of the region.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12You are responsible for Iraq.
0:15:12 > 0:15:17Donald Trump made it plain that whether it be Iraq,
0:15:17 > 0:15:20Afghanistan, Syria, he didn't want to see US troops on the ground
0:15:20 > 0:15:22any more in these foreign entanglements.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25So literally, specifically, how many US military personnel,
0:15:25 > 0:15:31trainers and whatever are in Iraq right now?
0:15:31 > 0:15:34Gosh, you know, for specific operational issues I would urge
0:15:34 > 0:15:37you to bring a defence department person in here.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40You know, I am happy to talk about the foreign policy aspect,
0:15:40 > 0:15:41I am happy to talk...
0:15:42 > 0:15:45It is definitely part of foreign policy if you've got boots
0:15:45 > 0:15:46on the ground in Iraq.
0:15:46 > 0:15:49Several thousand.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51That will do, a ballpark, several thousand.
0:15:51 > 0:15:55We now learn you are going to keep 2000 boots on the ground or pairs
0:15:55 > 0:15:59of boots on the ground in Syria too and we understand that more
0:15:59 > 0:16:02than 15,000 US military personnel are either already in or going to be
0:16:02 > 0:16:05deployed to Afghanistan.
0:16:05 > 0:16:10So coming back to your opening point about the difference between Obama
0:16:10 > 0:16:13and Trump when it comes to these difficult foreign policy issues,
0:16:13 > 0:16:16the difference ain't so great after all, is it?
0:16:17 > 0:16:19Well, in fact, I think there is a lot of difference.
0:16:20 > 0:16:24Trump is halving at least the amount of people that we are going to be
0:16:24 > 0:16:25having in Iraq.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28In Afghanistan, there is a recommendation from the commander
0:16:28 > 0:16:31on the ground, Nick Nicholson, with whom I served when I was
0:16:31 > 0:16:34deployed there, that they needed to reinforce the existing train,
0:16:34 > 0:16:36advise and assist structure, to give the Afghan government
0:16:36 > 0:16:40a better grip on the country as it moves forward over the next two
0:16:40 > 0:16:49or three years.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Hang on, Donald Trump tweeted literally dozens of times saying
0:16:51 > 0:16:55that the Afghan policy was a huge mistake, the troops should never
0:16:55 > 0:16:58have been sent and if he were president, those troops would be
0:16:58 > 0:16:59coming home right now.
0:16:59 > 0:17:04He's completely changed his policy.
0:17:04 > 0:17:09Again, this is my understanding, it was a request directly
0:17:09 > 0:17:11from Nick Nicholson to the president.
0:17:11 > 0:17:16Afghanistan is not my area of writ.
0:17:16 > 0:17:18Having served there myself, I can tell you it is
0:17:19 > 0:17:20a multifaceted problem set.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23John Allen, my old commander, used to call it the Ph.D.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26Of Warfare and so it's a decision that the White House
0:17:26 > 0:17:27is constantly looking at.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30I understand that Afghanistan is not your specific bag and indeed
0:17:30 > 0:17:33neither is Syria, but because Iraq is, I am sure you take a great
0:17:34 > 0:17:36interest in Syria because they are neighbouring countries and some
0:17:36 > 0:17:39of the issues cross the border, not least the fight against so-called
0:17:40 > 0:17:51IS and America's military strategy in both countries.
0:17:51 > 0:17:53Obviously, they are interlinked.
0:17:53 > 0:17:57And in Syria in particular, again it seems to me
0:17:57 > 0:17:59you have a massive problem because you have backed Kurdish
0:18:00 > 0:18:02forces in northern Syria, partly to eradicate remnants
0:18:02 > 0:18:05of Islamic State and the Turks are now calling the force you've
0:18:05 > 0:18:08worked with, funded and trained, a terrorist army and Mr Erdogan
0:18:08 > 0:18:11in Turkey is sending his forces in to fight them.
0:18:11 > 0:18:13Turkey of course, a fellow member of Nato.
0:18:13 > 0:18:27The United States in Syria is in a very big mess right now.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29Well, listen, we are constantly reinforcing to the Turks
0:18:29 > 0:18:32that we want whatever is happening in Afrin right now,
0:18:32 > 0:18:34their operations, Operation Olive Branch to limit civilian casualties,
0:18:35 > 0:18:46to be proportional and to be restrained.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50We are constantly reinforcing to the YPG not to provoke the Turks,
0:18:50 > 0:18:52not to step outside of their boundaries and to concentrate
0:18:52 > 0:18:55on the fight that we all agree on against Isis...
0:18:55 > 0:18:58Your Nato partners in Turkey are accusing you of funding
0:18:58 > 0:19:04and training a terrorist army on their border.
0:19:04 > 0:19:10Again, we are constantly engaging with the Turks on this issue.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13We are constantly engaging the YPG to de-conflict this and keep
0:19:13 > 0:19:15the focus on Isis.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19I mean, that is the core of US policy, that is what we are doing.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22It takes a little bit of time sometimes, but we are constantly
0:19:22 > 0:19:24engaged on this.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27The country you are specifically responsible for as well as Iran,
0:19:27 > 0:19:28is Iraq.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31There are supposed to be elections in Iraq in May.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33Do you have full confidence in Prime Minister Abadi,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36are you backing him and you want to see him succeed
0:19:36 > 0:19:41in those elections?
0:19:42 > 0:19:44Oh gosh, the Iraqi elections are really interesting.
0:19:44 > 0:19:45We are not backing Abadi specifically.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48We think his leadership has been extremely positive for Iraq,
0:19:48 > 0:19:58not least of which pulling it back from the brink in 2014.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01What I would offer is, I think it is a reflection
0:20:01 > 0:20:03on the progress that has been achieved in Iraq,
0:20:03 > 0:20:07that it is one of the few countries in the region where we genuinely
0:20:07 > 0:20:13don't know who is going to lead the country after May.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15There is a couple of main Shia candidates.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18Whoever wins will likely amalgamate a list with several,
0:20:18 > 0:20:22probably several smaller ethnic parties.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25But we think Abadi's leadership has been positive for Iraq,
0:20:25 > 0:20:28that goes without saying.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30Interesting that just a very short time ago,
0:20:31 > 0:20:33Mr Abadi tried to bring in an Iranian-backed Shia militia
0:20:33 > 0:20:39into his governing coalition.
0:20:39 > 0:20:43It failed in the end, but it was an intent that he had
0:20:43 > 0:20:46and certainly if one looks at Syria, the Iranians' influence is huge,
0:20:46 > 0:20:48long-running and military and political.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52So going back to your point that you see Iran as an overarching
0:20:52 > 0:20:55threat in the region, things really aren't going that well
0:20:55 > 0:21:01are they, for the United States, if that is your overarching concern?
0:21:01 > 0:21:05Well, I was encouraged by the fact that the Iranians backed group
0:21:05 > 0:21:08you mentioned that tried to join with Abadi, engaged in an electoral
0:21:08 > 0:21:11coalition with him for a grand total of 20 hours, before withdrawing.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13So from that perspective, I was greatly encourage.
0:21:13 > 0:21:21The reality Iraq faces, as you know, it is adjacent to Iran.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24It will be next to Iran for the rest of the time
0:21:24 > 0:21:26that there is an Iraq and Iran.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30So it's going to have some kind of relationship with that country
0:21:30 > 0:21:32and thus, Iranian backed candidates like Amiri will,
0:21:32 > 0:21:37are allowed to participate in the elections.
0:21:37 > 0:21:41Now, we think that Hahram Amiri is genuinely a negative force.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45But, you know, Iraq is a sovereign country, we cannot force
0:21:45 > 0:21:47the Prime Minister to enter into electoral coalitions
0:21:47 > 0:22:05with people we don't like.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08All right, we must end soon, but before we do,
0:22:08 > 0:22:09a more general point.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12You have made a point to me of saying, you know what,
0:22:12 > 0:22:14we are rebuilding our friendships and partnerships with long-time
0:22:14 > 0:22:15allies in the region.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18How does that square with the fallout from Donald Trump's
0:22:18 > 0:22:21very personal decision to move the US Embassy in Israel
0:22:21 > 0:22:23from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, recognising Jerusalem
0:22:23 > 0:22:29as the capital of Israel?
0:22:29 > 0:22:31The fallout from that has been profoundly negative,
0:22:31 > 0:22:35not least in some of countries like Saudi Arabia that you've cited
0:22:35 > 0:22:38to me as your staunchest partners.
0:22:38 > 0:22:44For you, it makes your job so much more difficult, doesn't it?
0:22:44 > 0:22:47You know, I would say that Saudis recognise that decision as one
0:22:47 > 0:22:52element in our relationship.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55I would say that the president was simply carrying out a law that
0:22:55 > 0:22:59had been on the books for over ten years, in doing that.
0:22:59 > 0:23:02And by the way, a campaign promise of his from 2016.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05So I think all of those countries that I referenced,
0:23:05 > 0:23:08see the US regional relationship as composed of many things
0:23:08 > 0:23:18and aren't going to tank it over any single one of them.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20Well, you may be confident, many others aren't.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24Relevant to this, he wasn't just making a point just about the move
0:23:24 > 0:23:27of the embassy in Israel, but he was making a point
0:23:27 > 0:23:30about the way in which Donald Trump's foreign policy has become
0:23:30 > 0:23:34so controversial in so many countries with his global approval
0:23:34 > 0:23:36rating, according to Gallup, down at historic lows,
0:23:36 > 0:23:40much lower than Barack Obama's.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43In a response to all of that, it has to be said, conservative
0:23:43 > 0:23:45commentator, Max Boot, wrote this, he said,
0:23:45 > 0:23:49"Trump has proved to be the worst salesman that America has ever had.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51Far from winning over other countries, he's actively repelling
0:23:51 > 0:23:54and repulsing them."
0:23:54 > 0:23:58Again, makes your job awfully difficult, doesn't it?
0:23:59 > 0:24:01Not at all, I think the region has been greatly encouraged
0:24:02 > 0:24:03by Donald Trump's election.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05I can't stress that to you enough.
0:24:05 > 0:24:07The Sunni Gulf allies and Israel.
0:24:07 > 0:24:09All right, we'll leave it there.
0:24:09 > 0:24:13Andrew Peek, I thank you very much for joining me on HARDtalk.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15Thanks so much, great to be here.