0:00:02 > 0:00:03how it will make sure such abuses never happen again.
0:00:10 > 0:00:14It's time now for HARDtalk.
0:00:14 > 0:00:20To the talk. Yesterday is living his dream, he is an internationally
0:00:20 > 0:00:25acclaimed concert pianist and successful recording artist but read
0:00:25 > 0:00:29his account of his life and it resembles a nightmare, when he is
0:00:29 > 0:00:33away from the piano, James Rhodes is still haunted by the violent sexual
0:00:33 > 0:00:38abuse he suffered three years on the age of six. He has written about how
0:00:38 > 0:00:43it drove him to drink, take drugs, self harm, and spend time in a
0:00:43 > 0:00:49psychiatric hospital. And how he was saved by music, only rediscovering
0:00:49 > 0:00:56in his 30s that he could really play the piano. But in this latest book,
0:00:56 > 0:01:00he recounts what his successful life really feels like, and it is almost
0:01:00 > 0:01:04unbearable and distressing to hear. How could he lived with the pain of
0:01:04 > 0:01:05the past?
0:01:09 > 0:01:11-- how can he.
0:01:31 > 0:01:36James Rhodes, welcomed the HARDtalk. It is nice to be here, thank you.
0:01:36 > 0:01:42Quite a dramatic introduction, I have to say.Quite a dramatic look.
0:01:42 > 0:01:47Yeah, possibly.And you intended it to be.No, I never intended to be.
0:01:47 > 0:01:52The whole drama thing, I've had quite enough of. Sometimes it can be
0:01:52 > 0:01:56quite sensational as the talk about certain topics and to me, what I
0:01:56 > 0:02:01really want to do was just tell the truth and be transparent. And so, so
0:02:01 > 0:02:05much of our lives today seem to entail kind of perfectly curated
0:02:05 > 0:02:10Instagram selfie 's and pretending everything is a certain way and that
0:02:10 > 0:02:14we somehow have all the rules and we know how to live perfectly well, and
0:02:14 > 0:02:17actually, I think the reality, certainly for me and I think for a
0:02:17 > 0:02:22lot of us, is very different, that actually life is quite challenging
0:02:22 > 0:02:27and it can be quite messy, and it is OK to kind of admit is the wrong
0:02:27 > 0:02:32word, but it is OK to say that, talk about it, be open about it.And you
0:02:32 > 0:02:35have been very open about it in your book but the descriptions seemed
0:02:35 > 0:02:40that almost any time that you are away from the piano, on your own,
0:02:40 > 0:02:46you almost in a state of constant torment. Is that unfair?Do you
0:02:46 > 0:02:51know, it is probably not unfair. I think when you put it like that,
0:02:51 > 0:02:56God, I feel more depressed now than when I came in. I... No, actually, I
0:02:56 > 0:03:01think it is unfair, I would not say almost any time. There are more
0:03:01 > 0:03:04moments that I feel quite comfortable with my place in the
0:03:04 > 0:03:08world, but there are a surprising number, large number of moments
0:03:08 > 0:03:12where I do feel very tormented, but I think the thing is, I don't think
0:03:12 > 0:03:17I am alone in that. I really think that many of us wake up a lot of
0:03:17 > 0:03:23mornings with that idea of God, I have had too much to drink last
0:03:23 > 0:03:27night -- think last night and I just had those voices and all that
0:03:27 > 0:03:32dialogue going on, today going be awful. You look at yourself in the
0:03:32 > 0:03:37mirror and you just think oh God, I am a disaster. I feel destroyed, I
0:03:37 > 0:03:43do not think that is on common.But it is quite extreme review.It is
0:03:43 > 0:03:48extreme with me only because of where it could be potentially, only
0:03:48 > 0:03:53because of...Because of where you have been in the past?Exactly,
0:03:53 > 0:03:56because they have history being in various locked psychiatric wards and
0:03:56 > 0:04:02suicide attempts, and AM I suppose understandably nervous about going
0:04:02 > 0:04:07back there, so when I have a bad day and things seem to be spiralling out
0:04:07 > 0:04:12of control, IDP is that I am not too long away from ending up back where
0:04:12 > 0:04:19I was a few years ago.-- is that. And we can hear from a concert last
0:04:19 > 0:04:27year, when you were playing Chopin, and I suppose this is the day job.
0:04:27 > 0:04:28Yes.
0:04:48 > 0:04:54It is awful, watching that. It is like hearing your own voice on an
0:04:54 > 0:04:57answering machine. No one watching this will know what an answering
0:04:57 > 0:05:01machine is, will have voice mail now, but do you remember when you
0:05:01 > 0:05:06were a kid annuity your own voice and you would go a God?What do you
0:05:06 > 0:05:10think?Probably the same thing that you think when you see yourself on
0:05:10 > 0:05:13TV or what journalists think when they are reading articles they have
0:05:13 > 0:05:16written, it is just slightly uncomfortable.When you are actually
0:05:16 > 0:05:22paying its?That is the best, time just disappears and that is why I
0:05:22 > 0:05:25think it is important to find something that you love, something
0:05:25 > 0:05:29that is ideally created. The big problem that I have fallen for and I
0:05:29 > 0:05:34think we all have it is that we are not designed to live the way we are
0:05:34 > 0:05:37living in 2018, we are just not built for it. We looked outside of
0:05:37 > 0:05:41ourselves all the time to try and fix what is happening on the inside,
0:05:41 > 0:05:45and without sounding too much like Deepak Chopra, it is not working. I
0:05:45 > 0:05:49do not think it works to get self-esteem from how many retreats
0:05:49 > 0:05:54we get on Twitter or how many Facebook friends we like, or if we
0:05:54 > 0:05:57get the shiny new iPhone before anyone else. That is not the point,
0:05:57 > 0:06:02the point is I to find something, that awful word mindfulness, but the
0:06:02 > 0:06:10point is we go inside, rather than outside. That is what music does to
0:06:10 > 0:06:18me, what art does to some people, or painting. It is always music.It is
0:06:18 > 0:06:23music that safety but the cause, the reason you need savings because what
0:06:23 > 0:06:30happened to you when you were six? Yes and no, personally yes, look
0:06:30 > 0:06:33around you, I think the kind of all need saving, we have all experienced
0:06:33 > 0:06:39former, I think there is no question about that. Whether it is parents
0:06:39 > 0:06:45divorced, disease, people dying, you cannot quantify trauma, that is the
0:06:45 > 0:06:50point, it is part of the human condition.Year, it was extreme. It
0:06:50 > 0:06:55was the age of six when you are very violently raped.Yes, for a long
0:06:55 > 0:06:59time, for many years, to the point where it ended up with spinal
0:06:59 > 0:07:02surgery is to try and repair all the damage, physically, the emotional
0:07:02 > 0:07:08stuff is still there. Obviously does not take a rocket scientist to
0:07:08 > 0:07:12figure out if you take a six-year-old and you do that that to
0:07:12 > 0:07:16him for four or five years, it is going to result in some pretty city
0:07:16 > 0:07:20issues.And it was a teacher who did it to you?Yeah, gym teacher at
0:07:20 > 0:07:24school and it was the 80s, which is not an excuse, but nothing happened.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28Do you want to know something about this country, England, the UK, where
0:07:28 > 0:07:33we are shooting this, even though it is what all around the world? People
0:07:33 > 0:07:36in other countries hearing this will not quite believe this but I promise
0:07:36 > 0:07:41you it is true. Still in 2018, in any clerical setting such as a
0:07:41 > 0:07:46school, a teacher could walk into a classroom and see another teacher
0:07:46 > 0:07:49raping a six-year-old girl or boy and they could shut the door and
0:07:49 > 0:07:53walk away, and they don't need to say anything, and they won't have
0:07:53 > 0:07:56broken any laws. That is the point, we do not have mandatory reporting.
0:07:56 > 0:08:01For the UK, they do have a duty to report.No, they do not will stop
0:08:01 > 0:08:05that is the point. We are one of the only countries in the world that
0:08:05 > 0:08:08does not have mandatory reporting and if they do report to the School
0:08:08 > 0:08:11or the police, they have no protection like whistleblower status
0:08:11 > 0:08:15or anything like that.You bring that up because comedy teaches at
0:08:15 > 0:08:18that school no?That is a hard question to answer, yes is the short
0:08:18 > 0:08:24answer to that. I was found by teacher with light on my face in
0:08:24 > 0:08:29coming down my legs and hysterical, and... I mean, as you would be. And
0:08:29 > 0:08:32I changed overnight and that was witnessed also by teachers and one
0:08:32 > 0:08:38of the teachers in her police evidence statement, she said there
0:08:38 > 0:08:42is no issue, I have permission to talk about that because she told me
0:08:42 > 0:08:46I can, but she went to the head teacher and said something is
0:08:46 > 0:08:50happening here and it is not right, and the head teacher said, as they
0:08:50 > 0:08:54did in the 80s, he needs to toughen up and nothing was done, nothing was
0:08:54 > 0:08:58done.And we should explain that she only came forward after you have
0:08:58 > 0:09:01done an interview about it.Exactly. You have done your research. I
0:09:01 > 0:09:05didn't interview where I mentioned it, it was a big interview in the
0:09:05 > 0:09:10Sunday Times, it was a couple of sentences were I said this happened
0:09:10 > 0:09:14to me when I was at school, and she got in touch with me and said I read
0:09:14 > 0:09:18this interview, I know who it was and I have Misys -ish and. I was
0:09:18 > 0:09:22quite naive, I was quite innocent, did not realise was in nature but I
0:09:22 > 0:09:25realise something was happening and I thought it was physical, not
0:09:25 > 0:09:30sexual. Of course, it was both. She went to the police, she gave a
0:09:30 > 0:09:35statement, they track the guy down. He is the thing, sometimes, there is
0:09:35 > 0:09:39a lot of very angry people, I think, in the world, sometimes that comes
0:09:39 > 0:09:42out on social media, it comes out below the articles when people are
0:09:42 > 0:09:48writing comments. Very occasionally people will say you only talk about
0:09:48 > 0:09:52this because you want to sell a few albums, and I always tell them this
0:09:52 > 0:09:56story, I talked about this for the first time in 2000, in this
0:09:56 > 0:10:00interview, and as a direct result of that, the police found this guy and
0:10:00 > 0:10:07you know what he was doing at the time that he was arrested? He was an
0:10:07 > 0:10:12old man, he was a part-time boxing coach for boys under ten. When
0:10:12 > 0:10:18people accuse me about this to get sympathy or sell albums, if I had
0:10:18 > 0:10:23not spoken, this guy would still be doing it. It could be teaching your
0:10:23 > 0:10:26son, your grandson, God forbid, your nephew. Would you rather that were
0:10:26 > 0:10:33happening?He actually, there was a police investigation.Yes, he was
0:10:33 > 0:10:37charged, the CPF board charges. There was a trial date set and he
0:10:37 > 0:10:42died before it got the trial, Justice turn slowly.Had he feel
0:10:42 > 0:10:46about the fact, though, that he knew eventually what he done to you, the
0:10:46 > 0:10:52damage?Nothing, is nothing.No feeling?No, God sound so
0:10:52 > 0:10:56melodramatic, but that part is dead. I mean there is no feeling now.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00We're talking about your teachers and things but what about your
0:11:00 > 0:11:05family because you say you changed overnight?Again, I can only really
0:11:05 > 0:11:10talk about myself. It is like in the book, in MMI wrote, instrumental,
0:11:10 > 0:11:14where I talk about it, talk about me because it is my story, not my
0:11:14 > 0:11:20family's story. All I will say is again, it was the 80s, it was a
0:11:20 > 0:11:25different time, people were very naive then. I think now of any of
0:11:25 > 0:11:29those signs going on in a kid, we would be all over it. It does not
0:11:29 > 0:11:32mean that it has stopped, as we know, it is still an epidemic all
0:11:32 > 0:11:36around the world, but people are aware of it more now. We need to
0:11:36 > 0:11:39talk more about it.There was something else, you mentioned it
0:11:39 > 0:11:44took quite a few years to come out. This was almost worse than what
0:11:44 > 0:11:48happened when I was a kid, if you can believe that the yeah, you are
0:11:48 > 0:11:52right. I had to get the Supreme Court to give me permission to
0:11:52 > 0:11:59publish it. It took me legal fees because they tried to ban the book,
0:11:59 > 0:12:03not only banned the book that they were at the gagging order that would
0:12:03 > 0:12:06stop me from speaking or writing in any medium anywhere in the world
0:12:06 > 0:12:10about any aspect of my past.And we should explain it was then ex-wife
0:12:10 > 0:12:15was concerned about your son... Well, ostensibly yes. Her belief was
0:12:15 > 0:12:20that I was doing this intentionally to inflict psychological harm on my
0:12:20 > 0:12:24own child by talking about my own past, which defies belief, but...
0:12:24 > 0:12:30Well, eventually, the Supreme Court ruled...They intervened and they
0:12:30 > 0:12:34change the law to stop this happening again because the
0:12:34 > 0:12:37President was so terrifying.But he talked when they book came out about
0:12:37 > 0:12:44how people are in denial, whether it is your family, the teachers...I
0:12:44 > 0:12:49think two people in my family have read the book, one of them has
0:12:49 > 0:12:52barely mentioned it and the other one has kind of mentioned it is my
0:12:52 > 0:12:56mum. It is like it does not exist, the culture of silence, which is
0:12:56 > 0:13:00what allows abuse of any kind to thrive, it is like we do not talk
0:13:00 > 0:13:04about this stuff, how could you write a book? And the shame, the
0:13:04 > 0:13:08secrecy, sexual abuse is predicated on shame, it is predicated on the
0:13:08 > 0:13:12fact that shame will stop you from talking. And that is why I promised
0:13:12 > 0:13:17myself that if I ever had a mark of one, even a small one, I would talk
0:13:17 > 0:13:23about. It is not the only thing I talk about, I will talk until I'm
0:13:23 > 0:13:26blue in the face about Bach, Showtime and really lovely things.
0:13:26 > 0:13:31It is a love letter to my son.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34-- Chopin.
0:13:34 > 0:13:39But they also about this terrible thing, that is really one of the
0:13:39 > 0:13:42scourges of our society.But there were, of course, many years when you
0:13:42 > 0:13:48did not talk because he moved on from the abuse... Tried to. And then
0:13:48 > 0:13:53it was in your late teens that you start a drink, everything.And self
0:13:53 > 0:14:00harming and everything else. And the truth is, it can't outrun, sadly you
0:14:00 > 0:14:04can't outrun these things. It is another reason I talk is because my
0:14:04 > 0:14:08own experience and that of thousands of people who have got in touch with
0:14:08 > 0:14:13me since the book came out, is that it is talk or die, I mean I know
0:14:13 > 0:14:18that sounds very melodramatic but you have to talk, not necessarily to
0:14:18 > 0:14:21your family, not necessarily to your friends, maybe to a good therapist
0:14:21 > 0:14:28or doctor or the Samaritans, who are amazing, or their organisations you
0:14:28 > 0:14:33can call, but you have to talk about this stuff. Otherwise, it is like a
0:14:33 > 0:14:37cancer inside you.
0:14:37 > 0:14:42You said your mother had spoken to you, what did she say? She is very
0:14:42 > 0:14:48supportive and loving and kind.She is a wonderful woman. The thing is,
0:14:48 > 0:14:52when you have a child, all paedophiles say the same thing. They
0:14:52 > 0:14:56say, you cannot talk about this. If you cannot talk about this, you
0:14:56 > 0:15:01cannot imagine the horror of things that will rain down on you. You will
0:15:01 > 0:15:11go to prison I will go to prison, you will be killed, your family.
0:15:11 > 0:15:15Whatever it is used. And when you're five or six or seven, your brain is
0:15:15 > 0:15:18not fully wired, it is still plastic. It changes the way you
0:15:18 > 0:15:23think and act. Every time you around that person, you have to act
0:15:23 > 0:15:28normally, you say yes, server or hi, dad and shake their hands. You
0:15:28 > 0:15:32become complicit in the crime they have carried out. It's like you have
0:15:32 > 0:15:37robbed the bank together and you are protecting him and every time it
0:15:37 > 0:15:42happens, that bond, it sounds crazy but that bond gets stronger so it's
0:15:42 > 0:15:47no wonder that we have people speaking out now 20 years, 30 years,
0:15:47 > 0:15:5240 years later which is why things like the statute of limitations on
0:15:52 > 0:15:57sexual abuse crimes are so ridiculous. It can take 30 years
0:15:57 > 0:16:01before you have the courage and strength to speak out.There are
0:16:01 > 0:16:08many remarkable things about your life... We all have stories. But in
0:16:08 > 0:16:13your particular life, you got your life back on track effectively. You
0:16:13 > 0:16:19had a successful job at a financial publication.I worked in the city,
0:16:19 > 0:16:24the only thing I am embarrassed about, Finance.You got married and
0:16:24 > 0:16:30had a son.You stopped the piano. I didn't play from 18 until 28. And
0:16:30 > 0:16:36only started properly at 14. I did everything in reverse. It was like
0:16:36 > 0:16:41Amy Whitehouse in reverse. I did all the drugs and stopped and when I hit
0:16:41 > 0:16:4728, I thought life is too short, I quit my job, said I'm going to be a
0:16:47 > 0:16:51concert pianist. Everyone looked at me like I was crazy. And they are
0:16:51 > 0:16:55not laughing now because I did it. To me, that's a wonderful thing. I
0:16:55 > 0:16:59have lost count of the number of people who said to me, I know I
0:16:59 > 0:17:03could write a book or I will always wanted to be an actor. We get
0:17:03 > 0:17:08trapped in these jobs that we don't like, marriage is that kind of
0:17:08 > 0:17:12convenient but a little bit shabby because we have a mortgage together
0:17:12 > 0:17:17or we have to pay the Bills and I think, you know what? You get one
0:17:17 > 0:17:22shot. I walked away from all of that and I'm doing whatever since I was a
0:17:22 > 0:17:26little kid I wanted to do which was planned concert halls around the
0:17:26 > 0:17:31world.You talk about what it means to you, music safety. Around that
0:17:31 > 0:17:36same time, you were having a son growing up who then hit the same
0:17:36 > 0:17:42age.They don't tell you this. I wish they had. I'm not sure how I
0:17:42 > 0:17:47would have prepared for it but I realise afterwards that it is very
0:17:47 > 0:17:51common if you were raped or abused as a child and you also have a
0:17:51 > 0:17:55child, when that child turns the age you were when the abuse started,
0:17:55 > 0:18:00it's very likely that your entire world will implode. That's what
0:18:00 > 0:18:07happened to me. On a biological level, I could not do the maths. I
0:18:07 > 0:18:13couldn't see this perfect miracle child who was four, five years old,
0:18:13 > 0:18:20this absolute God-given miracle, and see that I was that size when this
0:18:20 > 0:18:24was done to me and not only that, the terror of what have I done? I
0:18:24 > 0:18:29bought this kid into a world where these awful things happen. What was
0:18:29 > 0:18:36the effect on you? Everything fell apart. Everything fell apart. I was
0:18:36 > 0:18:40aggressively self harming, I was suicidal, I ended up spending nine
0:18:40 > 0:18:47months in various secure wards. I hasten to add, not because of him.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51He is still perfect and the greatest thing in my life and as any father
0:18:51 > 0:18:57would attest, it is the most overwhelming feeling of love and it
0:18:57 > 0:19:01only ever gets bigger. They don't tell you. Just when you think it
0:19:01 > 0:19:06can't get any bigger, it does, it's amazing the capacity to love your
0:19:06 > 0:19:12child. It's everything. But at that time, it bought up a lot of
0:19:12 > 0:19:15unresolved things. I tried to run away from it because I hadn't dealt
0:19:15 > 0:19:20with it. I don't know how I could have dealt with it. It's like when a
0:19:20 > 0:19:24train stops but the carriages behind it haven't stopped and they crash
0:19:24 > 0:19:28into the back of it, that's what happened with me and it took a long
0:19:28 > 0:19:33time to deal with that.It took a lot to recover from it but in a way,
0:19:33 > 0:19:37that is one of the messages in your book, it is that you don't ever
0:19:37 > 0:19:44really recover.It is what it is. It's a daily reprieve. That's why I
0:19:44 > 0:19:48am so deeply suspicious of self-help books, the idea you can find
0:19:48 > 0:19:52happiness in six weeks if you do these simple things or find peace of
0:19:52 > 0:19:58mind in one year if you follow these little guides. The pursuit of
0:19:58 > 0:20:02happiness, it's in the Constitution in America. We shouldn't be pursuing
0:20:02 > 0:20:07happiness, I don't think. I think happiness is fleeting. It's lovely
0:20:07 > 0:20:11when it comes but we are not designed to be happy. Even most of
0:20:11 > 0:20:16the time, I would say. Just because we are not happy does not mean we
0:20:16 > 0:20:22are unhappy. There is a giant scale in between. It can go further down
0:20:22 > 0:20:27into depression and anxiety but the message in the book, if there is
0:20:27 > 0:20:31one, it is that life is kind of messy and imperfect and all the
0:20:31 > 0:20:37steel a loan in a crowd sometimes. All of us feel slightly like we
0:20:37 > 0:20:41don't belong. Sometimes, just getting out of bed, getting the kids
0:20:41 > 0:20:45ready for school, getting on the subway to go to work, getting home,
0:20:45 > 0:20:50putting the kids did bed, eating something and going to sleep is an
0:20:50 > 0:20:55heroic act. No one says well done, you made it through the day like an
0:20:55 > 0:21:00adult! A lot of us, it's an extraordinary thing to achieve when
0:21:00 > 0:21:05your head is saying, throw yourself under the tube, life is meaningless,
0:21:05 > 0:21:10no one will care, life is too much. Just to survive and Intuit is
0:21:10 > 0:21:17heroic.For you, we come back to the music. Yes, please. You had come out
0:21:17 > 0:21:21of hospital and you are putting your life back together again. It is this
0:21:21 > 0:21:29combination of writing, talking and playing that saw your career saw.
0:21:29 > 0:21:33Yeah, I had no career before. I got out of hospital and that my manager
0:21:33 > 0:21:38purely by chance at a coffeeshop and in 2009, I released my first album
0:21:38 > 0:21:42which is crazy because concert pianists, you start at two or three
0:21:42 > 0:21:47years old, six hours of practice a day and I was in my mid- 30s, I'm
0:21:47 > 0:21:54not that old, and I did it all the wrong way around. But music, is the
0:21:54 > 0:22:01one consistent thing. I'd been on 35 different medication, I'd seen the
0:22:01 > 0:22:04same number of psychiatrists and psychologists, I tried so many
0:22:04 > 0:22:09different things. The only different thing -- the only consistent thing
0:22:09 > 0:22:15that has worked his music.Do you know how it works?That is the magic
0:22:15 > 0:22:19thing. What I do know is that when I was seven and the world was like a
0:22:19 > 0:22:26warzone, I found an old cassette tape with a piece of music by Bach
0:22:26 > 0:22:30and in that moment, everything changed. Thank goodness it was in
0:22:30 > 0:22:34the Bible. Everything would be different but to me, it was Bach in
0:22:34 > 0:22:38a bidding was changed.You are sitting here with Bach emblazoned on
0:22:38 > 0:23:16your T-shirt.Let's see you playing. Sure, why not.Is there an answer to
0:23:16 > 0:23:21the question why Bach? It's like why oxygen, why water? Everyone wanted
0:23:21 > 0:23:26to see that piece. Everyone watching this programme, everyone watching,
0:23:26 > 0:23:31if you have to hands, you would be able to play that piece by Bach in
0:23:31 > 0:23:36six weeks. You are looking at me like that.In a stroke of marketing
0:23:36 > 0:23:44genius, recalled the book How to Play the Piano. It shows you how to
0:23:44 > 0:23:49do it. You don't need a proper piano. That can cost £150,000. You
0:23:49 > 0:23:54get a £30 keyboard. You spent 40 minutes a day, Sundays off, six
0:23:54 > 0:24:00weeks later, you are playing Bach. Imagine in an age where everything
0:24:00 > 0:24:04has an app if we can't do it within three minutes, to find 40 minutes a
0:24:04 > 0:24:09day, it is amazing.James Rhodes, on that note, thank you very much for
0:24:09 > 0:24:33coming on HARDtalk Thank you.