0:00:00 > 0:00:11Now it's time for HARDtalk.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Stephen Sackur.
0:00:15 > 0:00:21For the people of South Sudan, five years of independent nationhood
0:00:21 > 0:00:23have brought little more than impoverishment,
0:00:23 > 0:00:24violence and suffering.
0:00:24 > 0:00:28The world's newest nation is again racked by internal
0:00:28 > 0:00:31conflict - more than a million people have been forced
0:00:31 > 0:00:33from their homes and the country's president, Salva Kiir,
0:00:33 > 0:00:37and his nemesis, Riek Machar, are again at each other's throats.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39My guest today is vice president turned rebel leader,
0:00:39 > 0:00:40Riek Machar.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42Has South Sudan been betrayed by its leaders?
0:01:12 > 0:01:20Riek Machar, in Johannesburg.
0:01:20 > 0:01:21Welcome to HARDtalk.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23Thank you for having me.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26I think it's fair to say that your country's
0:01:26 > 0:01:28independent history, five and a half years of it, has been
0:01:28 > 0:01:30disfigured by one relationship.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34That is, your relationship with President Salva Kiir.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37You have been in confrontation for much of your
0:01:37 > 0:01:39nation's independent life.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41It looks as though the confrontation has
0:01:41 > 0:01:43ended with Salva Kiir victorious.
0:01:43 > 0:01:49Would you accept that?
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Well, I don't think the issue is the relationship
0:01:52 > 0:01:56between me and President Salva Kiir.
0:01:56 > 0:02:03It is the politics, the difference in opinion,
0:02:03 > 0:02:06the difference in running the country, the difference
0:02:06 > 0:02:10in charting a way forward for our country.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12I don't think Salva Kiir is victorious because
0:02:13 > 0:02:17the country is at war.
0:02:17 > 0:02:21Nobody can be victorious when the war is raging.
0:02:21 > 0:02:29And when over one million people have been...
0:02:29 > 0:02:32..have gone to refuge, and over 2 million have been
0:02:32 > 0:02:34displaced internally,
0:02:34 > 0:02:37and there is so much humanitarian need in the country,
0:02:37 > 0:02:39so nobody can be victorious in such a situation.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42I only use the word because I consider your
0:02:42 > 0:02:42current position.
0:02:42 > 0:02:46Here you sit in South Africa, you have been banned from your own
0:02:46 > 0:02:49country, it seems that none of the neighbouring countries
0:02:49 > 0:02:52want to offer you refuge, the South Africans have told
0:02:52 > 0:02:55you to get out of their country as soon as possible.
0:02:55 > 0:03:00You look like a man who has lost the confrontation.
0:03:00 > 0:03:05I have not been banned in my country.
0:03:05 > 0:03:10Yes, I heard a statement being made, but it is just
0:03:10 > 0:03:13impossible for them to ban me, for the Juba government
0:03:13 > 0:03:19to ban me in my country.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21I live in the liberated areas.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25I could live in Equatoria, I could live in Bar el Ghazal,
0:03:25 > 0:03:26I could live in Upper Nile.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28The government says you are a terrorist,
0:03:28 > 0:03:32they will arrest you if you go back, and nowhere, it seems, is safe for
0:03:32 > 0:03:33you right now.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36South Sudan is safe for me.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40I am not in exile.
0:03:40 > 0:03:46I have not requested any asylum from any country.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49I'm only visiting to have a medical checkup with my doctor
0:03:49 > 0:03:54here in South Africa.
0:03:54 > 0:03:59Once this is over, I'll go back to South Sudan
0:03:59 > 0:04:03and live there as I used to live there before I went to Juba.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05There is some mystery about this health condition of yours.
0:04:05 > 0:04:13You of course had to flee South Sudan
0:04:13 > 0:04:19after the violent events of July, 2016, when you were in
0:04:19 > 0:04:21the presidential palace, when violence erupted and you claim
0:04:21 > 0:04:23there was an assassination attempt on you, and you
0:04:23 > 0:04:26and your close support were forced out of Juba.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29I think you claim you walked for more than 30 days to get
0:04:29 > 0:04:32to the DRC, the Democratic Republic of Congo.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34What exactly happened to you, and indeed your
0:04:34 > 0:04:36health, at that time?
0:04:36 > 0:04:39Well, let's start with my health.
0:04:39 > 0:04:55I am physically fit, ready to walk 500 miles again.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58What happened in the Republican Palace, I was called
0:04:58 > 0:05:02in for a meeting, I didn't know it was a set-up.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05We went through the meeting, in the middle of the meeting
0:05:05 > 0:05:07we heard bullets outside the palace and inside the palace.
0:05:07 > 0:05:17It went on for nearly 40 minutes.
0:05:17 > 0:05:23Those who were fighting themselves in the end controlled the situation
0:05:23 > 0:05:27and we addressed the population, that this situation is brought under
0:05:27 > 0:05:31control and it will be investigated.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35But then, a day later, my forces, a very small force,
0:05:35 > 0:05:43was attacked by the SPLA and we were pushed out of Juba.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46During that time I used to speak to President Salva,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48so that both of us could control our forces,
0:05:48 > 0:05:50but he couldn't control his forces.
0:05:50 > 0:05:57We were pushed out, I had to walk 37 days, up to
0:05:57 > 0:06:00the forests of DRC, where I was extricated by the UN
0:06:00 > 0:06:08to a more civilised life.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10And were you shot at any point?
0:06:10 > 0:06:16Do you have gunshot wounds?
0:06:16 > 0:06:17No, I wasn't shot.
0:06:17 > 0:06:19I only had a knee slippage.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23A knee slippage.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26Well, it seems to be quite problematic, because you claim
0:06:26 > 0:06:28to receive health treatment in various places since,
0:06:28 > 0:06:32including now in Johannesburg.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34It seems to me that your biggest problem isn't your
0:06:34 > 0:06:37health, your biggest problem is that some key
0:06:37 > 0:06:39allies have abandoned you and thrown in their lot
0:06:39 > 0:06:43with President Salva Kiir.
0:06:43 > 0:06:53Well, three of our members in the SPLM did that,
0:06:53 > 0:06:54but our political bureau is intact.
0:06:54 > 0:07:01We easily met in Khartoum.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03And we made resolutions, one of these resolutions
0:07:03 > 0:07:06is declaring the fact that the agreement has
0:07:06 > 0:07:09collapsed and that the transitional government has also collapsed,
0:07:09 > 0:07:11but we are looking for a political solution, which would
0:07:11 > 0:07:16resuscitate the agreement.
0:07:16 > 0:07:20The defection of three people...
0:07:20 > 0:07:24They are not just three people.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28The current deputy to Salva Kiir, vice president, is a man
0:07:28 > 0:07:32that you regarded as a key ally, but when he saw
0:07:32 > 0:07:36what happened to you he basically made a calculation.
0:07:36 > 0:07:42You've lost the credibility, the aura of power,
0:07:42 > 0:07:46and he decided, your former ally, to throw in his lot with Salva Kiir,
0:07:46 > 0:07:47which comes back to this issue,
0:07:47 > 0:07:52to many people in South Sudan it looks as though you have lost.
0:07:52 > 0:07:57In actual fact he is the one who has lost because the leadership is with
0:07:57 > 0:08:04me, the Army is with me, the SPLM-IO,
0:08:04 > 0:08:08and also the commander-in-chief of the SPLM-IO.
0:08:08 > 0:08:19He has lost, he has no base, no support, no army to control.
0:08:19 > 0:08:24So I haven't lost anything.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27It's Salva Kiir and Taban Deng who have made the country lose
0:08:27 > 0:08:31the peace that we wanted to implement.
0:08:31 > 0:08:35You know what, in America they have a phrase -
0:08:35 > 0:08:37"What goes around comes around".
0:08:37 > 0:08:41Maybe that applies to you, because you have been, as you would
0:08:41 > 0:08:43see it, betrayed by Taban Deng, you have also been
0:08:43 > 0:08:46betrayed by some of your military officers who have thrown
0:08:46 > 0:08:50in their lot with Salva Kiir's forces, and you yourself in the past
0:08:50 > 0:09:03have been accused of betrayal.
0:09:03 > 0:09:07In 2013 you betrayed John Garang in the 90s and started cooperating
0:09:07 > 0:09:08with the Khartoum government, and in 2013
0:09:08 > 0:09:12were accused of betraying Salva Kiir and plotting a coup against him.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15So I come back to this point, what goes around comes around.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17Well, first of all, there are no military commanders
0:09:18 > 0:09:19that have gone with Taban Deng Gai.
0:09:19 > 0:09:24As for 1991, we had a point of difference,
0:09:24 > 0:09:26we had political differences.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30We made a declaration in Nasser for the people of South Sudan
0:09:30 > 0:09:35to be accorded the right of self-determination,
0:09:35 > 0:09:37in an internationally supervised referendum, and this is
0:09:37 > 0:09:42what happened.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45And we called for democracy, respect of human right,
0:09:45 > 0:09:47at that time.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52That was not a betrayal.
0:09:52 > 0:09:58And what succeeded today is the fact that by 2011 the people
0:09:58 > 0:10:02of South Sudan, they declared independence after a referendum.
0:10:02 > 0:10:11It was conducted in January 2011.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14So that means that in the battle of ideas we succeeded.
0:10:14 > 0:10:15We created South Sudan.
0:10:15 > 0:10:20And South Sudan is now an independent state.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22It wasn't a betrayal.
0:10:22 > 0:10:26In 2013, I never betrayed Salva Kiir,
0:10:26 > 0:10:31Salva Kiir attacked my residence, as he did again in 2016.
0:10:31 > 0:10:38And in actual fact he is the one who has betrayed me,
0:10:38 > 0:10:41the confidence that I had in him, he shattered it.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44We have spoken before and you know that Salva Kiir accuses
0:10:44 > 0:10:48you of treachery, and you accuse him of breaking promises and treachery.
0:10:48 > 0:10:53All I would say to you is that people looking at your situation
0:10:53 > 0:10:57from the outside look at your career from the 1990s to the present day
0:10:57 > 0:11:00and they see a man who is politically very capable but also
0:11:00 > 0:11:03a man who has, time after time,
0:11:03 > 0:11:08appeared to put personal interests above the interests of his country,
0:11:08 > 0:11:11and that seems to be what you are doing again today
0:11:11 > 0:11:15by declaring war on the government in Juba,
0:11:15 > 0:11:20the government of your own country, because you know that by doing so
0:11:20 > 0:11:23you will prolong the agony and suffering of the 12 million
0:11:23 > 0:11:33South Sudanese people.
0:11:33 > 0:11:40In 1991 we declared to the whole world that South Sudan
0:11:40 > 0:11:44deserve to exercise the right of self-determination.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47This is a normal principle.
0:11:47 > 0:11:56In 2013, and actually before 2013, while I was in
0:11:56 > 0:11:59government, from the independence, we were debating the better forms
0:11:59 > 0:12:06of governance in our country.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10We were discussing corruption, I raised those issues.
0:12:10 > 0:12:11The president didn't like that.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14Let's not get stuck too much in the past.
0:12:14 > 0:12:16You have put the interests of yourself
0:12:16 > 0:12:18above your government by declaring war on
0:12:18 > 0:12:20the government, knowing that that will mean prolonged suffering
0:12:20 > 0:12:28for your people.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32I have not declared war against the government.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34What has happened is that the government declared
0:12:35 > 0:12:35war against us.
0:12:35 > 0:12:38The attempted assassination.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40And also, the continuous pursuit, military pursuit, against us,
0:12:40 > 0:12:44by ground forces, and by air, up to the Congo.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48Now, this was an intentional...
0:12:48 > 0:13:00..an intention to kill me.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03There is no personal interests that I had in all these events that
0:13:03 > 0:13:04you are enumerating.
0:13:04 > 0:13:051991, self-determination.
0:13:05 > 0:13:132013, reforms, which resulted in the agreement of 2015.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16I'm looking at a statement of yours from September 25th
0:13:16 > 0:13:21where you say that you are declaring war
0:13:21 > 0:13:24on the regime, you call it a rogue regime, and your SPLA-IO
0:13:24 > 0:13:25statement says:
0:13:25 > 0:13:28We will wage a popular armed resistance against
0:13:28 > 0:13:32the authoritarian fascist regime of President Salva Kiir.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35So come on, let's be honest.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38You have declared war on this government and you
0:13:38 > 0:13:45know what that will bring.
0:13:45 > 0:13:55I'm also being honest to you.
0:13:55 > 0:13:59The war was started by Salva Kiir on 8 July, and he has continued it,
0:13:59 > 0:14:04even when I was in the Congo, and it has been on.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07What we are doing is reacting, and we're staging a resistance
0:14:07 > 0:14:08against the regime,
0:14:08 > 0:14:12which we truly call a dictatorship, and it is a fascist regime, yes.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15Well, the international community looks in on what is happening
0:14:15 > 0:14:20in South Sudan, and they are absolutely appalled by what they see
0:14:20 > 0:14:23from all sides, frankly, but they are appalled
0:14:23 > 0:14:30by the statement that I have just read out,
0:14:30 > 0:14:33that came from your side.
0:14:33 > 0:14:40They condemned it and they said, quote, "further fighting will not
0:14:40 > 0:14:46solve South Sudan's pressing political and economic challenges.
0:14:46 > 0:14:50It will only increase the suffering of the people,
0:14:50 > 0:14:56worsen the humanitarian crisis, and further
0:14:56 > 0:14:56inflame ethnic tension."
0:14:56 > 0:14:58That is the truth, is it not?
0:14:58 > 0:15:01And you will have to bear responsibility for that.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03Well, I did not start the war.
0:15:03 > 0:15:04It was started by Salva Kiir.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07Salva Kiir, he is the legitimate, recognised leader of your country.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09You were his vice president.
0:15:09 > 0:15:10You chose to flee.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12You chose to once again take up rebel military operations.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16And you have chosen to call him a fascist and declare war upon him.
0:15:16 > 0:15:21I repeat, you will have to bear responsibility for the consequences.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25Stephen, when I was attacked, I was the first vice president
0:15:25 > 0:15:25of the Republic.
0:15:25 > 0:15:28Is there a country where a vice president would be attacked
0:15:28 > 0:15:38by government troops?
0:15:38 > 0:15:41This happened to me, it happened to me in my residence,
0:15:41 > 0:15:42and for three days.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45And I was pleading to him to stop his troops,
0:15:45 > 0:15:47to control his troops.
0:15:47 > 0:15:48He didn't control them.
0:15:48 > 0:15:53And the attacks continued for 37 days.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56If he knew that I had moved away from the capital,
0:15:56 > 0:16:00why would he pursue me with ground troops, with air force,
0:16:00 > 0:16:07using MI-24 helicopter gunships, daily bombardment, using four
0:16:07 > 0:16:09helicopters at a time...
0:16:09 > 0:16:15Do you care about the suffering of the people of your country?
0:16:15 > 0:16:21Do you care about the egregious human rights abuses that have been
0:16:21 > 0:16:25committed by both your forces and the forces
0:16:25 > 0:16:27of the government, led by Salva Kiir,
0:16:27 > 0:16:30or do you simply not think about the people of your country?
0:16:30 > 0:16:31Stephen, I care a lot.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34I live with the people.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37It's Salva Kiir who is not living with the people.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39I live with the people, daily.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42I know what happens to them.
0:16:42 > 0:16:47Let's take the example of Juba.
0:16:47 > 0:16:55What happened, what the government troops did to the American car,
0:16:55 > 0:16:58with people in it, they sprayed it with over 100 bullets,
0:16:58 > 0:16:59in broad daylight.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01What happened to that NGO's compound?
0:17:01 > 0:17:06Which was attacked by more than a platoon, a company.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10These are events that happened just recently that people
0:17:10 > 0:17:15don't talk about.
0:17:15 > 0:17:22What is happening in Equatoria now?
0:17:22 > 0:17:28People are being killed, raped, they're being displaced.
0:17:28 > 0:17:30A country like Uganda is receiving, daily,
0:17:30 > 0:17:32thousands, and also countries like Ethiopia and Sudan
0:17:32 > 0:17:34are receiving a lot of people.
0:17:34 > 0:17:35These are the actions of government.
0:17:35 > 0:17:40Not the actions of the SPLM-IO.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43Listen, I promise you that we are endeavouring to put allegations
0:17:43 > 0:17:46of abuses that have been made against the government forces,
0:17:46 > 0:17:48to senior government officials.
0:17:48 > 0:17:52That is my job, I will be doing that.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54But right now I have got you on my programme,
0:17:54 > 0:17:57and I need to put some of the allegations
0:17:57 > 0:18:00of terrible abuses by your forces on the ground direct to you.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02And I remember very well, when we spoke...
0:18:02 > 0:18:06Yes.
0:18:06 > 0:18:14Hang on, when we spoke in the spring of 2014
0:18:14 > 0:18:16you promised me you were serious about respecting the rights
0:18:16 > 0:18:19of the people of your country,
0:18:19 > 0:18:22There had just been a terrible incident in Bentiu were allegations
0:18:22 > 0:18:25suggested that your troops had massacred more than 280 people
0:18:25 > 0:18:28in a marketplace and in a mosque, and you said to me,
0:18:28 > 0:18:29we will investigate.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32It turns out that right now you have conducted no proper investigation
0:18:32 > 0:18:39into those allegations against your own forces.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43Stephen, this allegation was investigated by an international
0:18:43 > 0:18:48organisation.
0:18:48 > 0:18:54When they showed me their investigation,
0:18:54 > 0:18:56I agreed with it, and I said we would execute
0:18:56 > 0:18:58their recommendations.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01So this is a matter which was done in 2014.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04And by the way, let me remind you, that incident happened before
0:19:04 > 0:19:14we created SPLM/SPLA-IO.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16It happened on April 15th,
0:19:16 > 0:19:18before we met in Nasser to create SPLM/SPLA-IO.
0:19:18 > 0:19:19So do you acknowledge...?
0:19:19 > 0:19:23Hang on, I don't think you have ever said this in public before.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26Are you now acknowledging what the UN mission in South Sudan
0:19:26 > 0:19:29has said for a long time, that there is very compelling
0:19:29 > 0:19:32evidence, they say, that around 287 people were massacred in a mosque
0:19:32 > 0:19:35by your forces?
0:19:35 > 0:19:38Are you now saying, yes, it is true?
0:19:38 > 0:19:41And what have you done to the perpetrators?
0:19:41 > 0:19:46I told you, this was investigated by an international organisation.
0:19:46 > 0:19:54We looked at the report, we pinned it down to a group
0:19:54 > 0:19:58of people, we know them.
0:19:58 > 0:20:04However, many of them are now dead, because of the conflict.
0:20:04 > 0:20:08So that, we never denied it.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10But we told you, look, at that time, the SPLM/SPLA-IO
0:20:10 > 0:20:14was not yet formed.
0:20:14 > 0:20:18It was formed in Nasser in April, towards the middle of April.
0:20:18 > 0:20:22And the incident happened days before the formation
0:20:22 > 0:20:32of the SPLM/SPLA-IO.
0:20:32 > 0:20:34But because the forces joined us, we accepted
0:20:34 > 0:20:35to responsibility at that time.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37But let me also remind you.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40Since that time, what have you heard that the SPLM/SPLA-IO
0:20:40 > 0:20:41forces have done?
0:20:41 > 0:20:47None.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49All right, well, listen, let's move on.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51We don't have much time.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54There are two key questions I need to put to you,
0:20:54 > 0:21:01one is about the international presence in South Sudan,
0:21:01 > 0:21:04The UN seems ready to send another 4,000 troops to join the 12,000
0:21:04 > 0:21:07in the UN mission.
0:21:07 > 0:21:08Salva Kiir's government is reluctant,
0:21:08 > 0:21:11but apparently has agreed to it happening, but it has
0:21:11 > 0:21:12not happened yet.
0:21:12 > 0:21:16In your opinion, does the international community need
0:21:16 > 0:21:19to send those 4,000 extra troops, and indeed more, to truly offer some
0:21:19 > 0:21:21protection to the people of your country?
0:21:21 > 0:21:34Well, we were the first to call for deployment of a third force.
0:21:34 > 0:21:40And actually, on 11 July, we were the first to call for it.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42By that time, though, we felt the deployment might take
0:21:42 > 0:21:46a long time, because of debates within the EU and the UN that
0:21:46 > 0:21:47might take time.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50Now that the decision has been made this is good,
0:21:50 > 0:21:53we welcome it.
0:21:53 > 0:21:57However, it will not be effective, only if the peace agreement
0:21:57 > 0:22:01is resuscitated, and the transitional government,
0:22:01 > 0:22:02the transitional government of national unity,
0:22:02 > 0:22:05is reinstituted and reconstituted.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07What is your intention now?
0:22:07 > 0:22:10Are you determined...
0:22:10 > 0:22:13You say you can find safe areas, you can go back home
0:22:13 > 0:22:14whenever you want.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19So are you going to go back home?
0:22:19 > 0:22:41Because I just look at one of the words of one of the most
0:22:41 > 0:22:44respected analysts of South Sudan, Jok Madut Jok, who says
0:22:44 > 0:22:45the best scenario of the country
0:22:45 > 0:22:48is an impossible one, it is simply to get Riek Machar
0:22:48 > 0:22:52and Salva Kiir to retire from politics so we can get them out
0:22:52 > 0:22:55of the way, and get a caretaker government and fresh elections.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57So will you return, get out of the way?
0:22:57 > 0:22:59I am going to return to South Sudan.
0:22:59 > 0:23:03Half of South Sudan is a liberated area controlled by the SPLM/SPLA-IO.
0:23:03 > 0:23:03When?
0:23:03 > 0:23:05Now.
0:23:05 > 0:23:06the peace agreement.
0:23:06 > 0:23:13As soon as I leave this country.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15The peace agreement has been abrogated and collapsed,
0:23:15 > 0:23:21so a road map for taking South Sudan to a democratic state
0:23:21 > 0:23:24where elections would be held in 2018.
0:23:24 > 0:23:30Now, because President Salva Kiir does not want democratic
0:23:30 > 0:23:34and transparent and fair elections to be conducted,
0:23:34 > 0:23:38he attacked us, he has restarted
0:23:38 > 0:23:40the war.
0:23:40 > 0:23:44But I am hoping that wise leaders in the region,
0:23:44 > 0:23:47and in Africa, and the rest of the world, will throw up
0:23:47 > 0:23:50a political process which will bring about peace again,
0:23:50 > 0:23:52and the resuscitation of the peace agreement,
0:23:52 > 0:23:54and the reconstitution of the transitional government
0:23:54 > 0:24:02of national unity.
0:24:02 > 0:24:07Well, we will keep watching the situation with great interest.
0:24:07 > 0:24:09But for now we have run out of time.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12Riek Machar, I thank you very much for being on Hardtalk.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14Thank you, Stephen, thank you very much.
0:24:36 > 0:24:37Hello again, good morning.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39If you managed to dodge the showers yesterday,
0:24:39 > 0:24:41it was quite warm in the sunshine.