29/10/2015

:00:08. > :00:13.Hello and welcome to BBC Parliament's live coverage from the

:00:14. > :00:17.House of Commons. In an hour the leader of the house Chris Grayling

:00:18. > :00:21.and will announce the forthcoming business in the chamber and take

:00:22. > :00:25.questions from backbenchers. The main business is a backbench

:00:26. > :00:29.business debate on the effects of the government proposed reforms to

:00:30. > :00:34.tax credits. Remember to join me for a round-up of the day in both Houses

:00:35. > :00:39.of Parliament at 11pm this evening. First, we have questions to the

:00:40. > :00:40.Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin and his team of

:00:41. > :01:00.ministers. Order. Transport the London bill,

:01:01. > :01:07.Lords revival motion. I beg to move. Motion to be taken what day? Very

:01:08. > :01:12.appropriately Thursday, the 5th of November. Thursday the 5th of

:01:13. > :01:19.November. Order, questions to the Secretary of State the transport.

:01:20. > :01:26.Question number one. The current difference between laboratory

:01:27. > :01:33.testing and real emissions. The agreement we secured in Brussels to

:01:34. > :01:39.introduce real-world testing in 2017 is an important milestone. We will

:01:40. > :01:43.continue to press the EU for a comprehensive approach on emissions

:01:44. > :01:57.testing that restores confidence and the livers climb it -- and delivers

:01:58. > :02:03.climb it objectives -- climate. The UK's managing director said the

:02:04. > :02:10.target of 2016 might not be deliverable. How can he assure the

:02:11. > :02:17.house that this can be achieved by 2016? Volkswagen have acted

:02:18. > :02:22.disgracefully in this whole episode. I will be looking to them

:02:23. > :02:24.to ensure they live up to the expectations they promised

:02:25. > :02:33.originally and will be working to make sure that happens. Does he

:02:34. > :02:37.agree that Volkswagen has shattered trust in motor vehicle testing and

:02:38. > :02:40.we need to move at pace to real-world testing to restore

:02:41. > :02:49.confidence in the public? I do agree. I think both when I appeared

:02:50. > :02:54.before the Select Committee, just a few weeks ago, I made that position

:02:55. > :02:56.abundantly clear. I think progress made yesterday is progress made

:02:57. > :03:04.yesterday is progressing the right direction. The still unfolding

:03:05. > :03:07.scandal of Volkswagen has lifted the lid on the more widespread problem

:03:08. > :03:12.about emissions testing which was known about for a long time. Why

:03:13. > :03:18.didn't the Department act sooner in doing something about it? It has two

:03:19. > :03:23.B said that's the honourable lady says it was known about a long time,

:03:24. > :03:41.but in truth if one looks at the amount of diesel sold in 2001, it

:03:42. > :03:46.was 460,000, 17%. In 2009, -- 815,000, if it was known about for

:03:47. > :04:02.some time it is not this government but the previous that is culpable.

:04:03. > :04:07.The new London taxi is zero. I have travelled in one of those taxes.

:04:08. > :04:16.That is part of the answer we will continue to support our programme of

:04:17. > :04:22.support for some 1.2 million cars have been affected across the UK and

:04:23. > :04:28.it is important to be mindful of drivers, they are facing a higher

:04:29. > :04:34.road tax. Does he agree the financial implications should we

:04:35. > :04:38.give in to Volkswagen and Audi for this disgraceful thing that

:04:39. > :04:46.happened? I do not think there will be an increase in taxes, we have

:04:47. > :04:53.made that clear. But it is something that VW will have to addressing

:04:54. > :04:59.course. Is the reality, though, that Biddestone's statements are leaving

:05:00. > :05:03.motorists concerned about air quality number wise. Can he clear

:05:04. > :05:07.the air on one point and that is what happened at the EU technical

:05:08. > :05:12.committee yesterday. It was not just about setting a timetable for new

:05:13. > :05:18.cars to conform with existing emissions, did it not also involve

:05:19. > :05:22.permission to breach those limits by 50%, that being open ended

:05:23. > :05:27.permission, and isn't that what the UK representative voted for? What

:05:28. > :05:31.was important was because agreement for real-world emissions testing

:05:32. > :05:38.across Europe and this was something... This has been objected

:05:39. > :05:43.to the pass. We pressed for it and I am pleased we achieved it. He said

:05:44. > :05:49.it is not as much or as fast as he would like, but I would say we have

:05:50. > :05:51.made more progress in the six months of this new Conservative government

:05:52. > :06:04.than ever made in the last government. The government remains

:06:05. > :06:07.committed to delivering the vital benefits these projects will provide

:06:08. > :06:13.to passengers as part of the replanning of this programme I

:06:14. > :06:19.expect Sir Peter Hendy to ensure schemes deliver value for money.

:06:20. > :06:25.With the minister agree the tripling of costs to over 2.5 billion pounds

:06:26. > :06:29.is breathtaking and will he take the time to learn lessons from Scotland

:06:30. > :06:35.where major capital projects are coming in on time and budget largely

:06:36. > :06:39.as a result of proper planning and good contract negotiation, so

:06:40. > :06:48.further public money is not thrown away in this cavalier fashion? I am

:06:49. > :06:52.always willing to learn lessons from wherever they are valid, be that

:06:53. > :07:03.Scotland or anywhere else and I will not look for advice on providing

:07:04. > :07:09.tram systems! What I would say is some of these programmes and the

:07:10. > :07:19.honourable lady is a member of the PAC, and therefore was in the

:07:20. > :07:24.position of hearing evidence by Mark Carne and the Permanent Secretary

:07:25. > :07:27.and some have run over budget that they are huge schemes, very

:07:28. > :07:34.important schemes, and making the railway system modern for the 21st

:07:35. > :07:39.century is important. As regards value for money of the great Western

:07:40. > :07:43.mainline, would he agree electrification is one factor that

:07:44. > :07:50.makes the reopening of the station a more valuable project that needs to

:07:51. > :07:54.remain high on the agenda. I am sure it will remain high on the agenda as

:07:55. > :07:59.long as my honourable friend presses for it.

:08:00. > :08:06.I look forward to discussing it with my honourable friend and see if we

:08:07. > :08:10.can help my honourable friend get what she wishes. Electrification of

:08:11. > :08:15.the great Western and Valley lines are two sides of the same coin, with

:08:16. > :08:19.both meaning a great deal to the South Wales economy. What

:08:20. > :08:22.discussions as he had with the Welsh Government counterpart on the

:08:23. > :08:31.delivery date for electrification of the Valley lines? We made money

:08:32. > :08:36.available to the Welsh Assembly, 125 million. I have met with Edwina Hart

:08:37. > :08:40.and discuss the programme and I am in contact with my right honourable

:08:41. > :08:43.friend the Secretary of State for Wales and it is a matter for the

:08:44. > :08:48.assembly to come forward with their plans. I congratulate him for

:08:49. > :08:53.confirmation the Midland Main line will be electrified to Kettering by

:08:54. > :08:56.2019. Can he assure the house the lessons learned from the great

:08:57. > :09:01.Western electrification will be applied to that line so it can be

:09:02. > :09:06.delivered quickly and efficiently? A neat body swerve to ensure his

:09:07. > :09:15.question is in order. The textbook example to colleagues!

:09:16. > :09:22.Was that the answer, Mr Speaker?! I have now forgotten what the

:09:23. > :09:29.question was! Mr Speaker, I certainly agree with

:09:30. > :09:34.my honourable friend. It is very important to re-establish the

:09:35. > :09:42.Midland mainline electrification. It is a line I use regularly. Lessons

:09:43. > :09:49.need to be learned. Work had already started. What was important about

:09:50. > :09:52.the plan that is being developed is that we look at the whole line

:09:53. > :09:55.development because there are certain things on the Midland Main

:09:56. > :10:07.line that can be done to increase speed and that is important as well.

:10:08. > :10:16.One reason for extra cost is compensation. Is it in the public

:10:17. > :10:20.interest to publish those payments, and those spent on infrastructure

:10:21. > :10:24.not those lining the pockets of shareholders? We make the best we

:10:25. > :10:29.can with the huge investment we put into railways and I am proud of the

:10:30. > :10:34.improvements that have taken place on the great Western.

:10:35. > :10:39.Electrification is part of it. Completion of the station and the

:10:40. > :10:45.flyover that happens so the line is no longer held up by freight trains

:10:46. > :10:53.has been an improvement and serves his those in the south-west

:10:54. > :11:04.incredibly well. Question three, if you please, Mr Speaker. Network Rail

:11:05. > :11:12.assesses risks on crossings. The UK has the best level crossing safety

:11:13. > :11:20.record in the EU. There is work to reduce that risk still further.

:11:21. > :11:25.What a lot of waffle after the Beech Hill tragedy in 2012 Network Rail

:11:26. > :11:31.said it would get rid of all level crossings in Bassetlaw on the East

:11:32. > :11:35.Coast mainline. The public consultation on the schemes in order

:11:36. > :11:40.to ensure it had taken place. And what has happened is the money has

:11:41. > :11:43.been pulled. Will the minister meet Network Rail along with the

:11:44. > :11:48.Chancellor to ensure that money is put back in. It is good for

:11:49. > :11:54.business, the economy and safety and good for the people of Bassetlaw.

:11:55. > :12:01.The honourable gentleman had the tragic accident that resulted in a

:12:02. > :12:04.loss of life. After that the rail accident investigation board made

:12:05. > :12:09.clear recommendations so that accident could not happen again and

:12:10. > :12:14.I am told they have been implemented. He is referring to the

:12:15. > :12:19.plan to close the 73 crossings on the East Coast mainline, and that

:12:20. > :12:23.work has been progress. You cannot just shut off communities who rely

:12:24. > :12:28.on those. He shakes his head. He should be in my job and have people

:12:29. > :12:31.campaigning to keep crossings open. The work will happen and it is right

:12:32. > :12:36.to focus on this and we will continue to fund the work, there is

:12:37. > :12:39.no shortage of money for this and money will be spent on making the

:12:40. > :12:53.crossing safer. We have committed to setting out the

:12:54. > :12:57.government's plan for the HS2 phase to route and update the House before

:12:58. > :13:00.the end of the year. I thank him for that answer and for the times he and

:13:01. > :13:06.his officials have spent with me on the link. The initial justification

:13:07. > :13:09.of the link was the depot in Wigan. That will not now be the. The only

:13:10. > :13:14.justification that remains is a ten minute journey time saving two

:13:15. > :13:19.trains north of Wigan. Will he confirm that if that stand-alone

:13:20. > :13:28.link goes ahead it will be subject to a separate business case? We are

:13:29. > :13:30.considering all of the recommendations made by Sir David

:13:31. > :13:35.Higgins and his report, and he believes that the link to the West

:13:36. > :13:40.Coast Main line is necessary, sooner rather than later. The alternative,

:13:41. > :13:44.which would mean linking into the West Coast mainline, would mean

:13:45. > :13:49.upgrading it to take these additional services, which can be

:13:50. > :13:50.costly and disrupt, and would incur those dreadful words, replacement

:13:51. > :13:58.bus services. Can I beg the team for bus services. Can I beg the team for

:13:59. > :14:05.the moment of sanity in terms of HS2. Isn't it time, where we know

:14:06. > :14:12.the latest evaluation says the cost will rise to ?116 billion, in a

:14:13. > :14:15.country that can't even keep its National Health service running,

:14:16. > :14:22.isn't it about time we look at this in a ruthless way, speak to Lord

:14:23. > :14:29.Adonis, to get his act together. He calls himself the Godfather of HS2.

:14:30. > :14:34.Let's invest in things that really work. That is not what huge was

:14:35. > :14:40.saying when he was Secretary of State. -- what he was saying. I am

:14:41. > :14:46.pleased Lord Adonis is engaging with the government. I think he needs to

:14:47. > :14:52.ask themselves what are the costs of not progressing HS2 because it is

:14:53. > :14:55.about the capacity and the great cities of the North, who are crying

:14:56. > :15:04.out for the additional capacity and the wealth it will bring. HS2 should

:15:05. > :15:12.have started and then or. On phase two, can I also appeal for sanity

:15:13. > :15:18.and ask them to review the hybrid Bill process and the cruel and

:15:19. > :15:24.unfair compensation scheme. The hybrid Bill process for phase one

:15:25. > :15:27.has been convoluted, and painful. Not just for the MPs on the

:15:28. > :15:32.committee but for the people affected by the project. It is

:15:33. > :15:37.ironic we should be using such a snail-like process for something

:15:38. > :15:44.that is supposed to be high-speed. It is not fit for purpose, and we

:15:45. > :15:50.should be modernising it. I would pay tribute to the members who have

:15:51. > :15:56.doggedly sat on the hybrid Bill committee and listened to petitions

:15:57. > :15:59.brought before them in an admirable way. Many petitions did not reach

:16:00. > :16:04.the committee because we reached agreement before it. As far as

:16:05. > :16:10.building it from the North first, it would still end in London, which the

:16:11. > :16:23.end it started the capacity is between Birmingham and London, as a

:16:24. > :16:32.matter of urgency. Can the proposals be discussed to mitigate the impact

:16:33. > :16:40.of HS2 on local residents and businesses in and around Donington?

:16:41. > :16:43.We have not finalised that right, so we will be getting the House and up

:16:44. > :16:57.date before the end of the year, when it would be appropriate to meet

:16:58. > :17:02.with a number of communities. I will answer this question together with

:17:03. > :17:06.number 11. We have made significant progress on increasing access. By

:17:07. > :17:14.the end of the year we expect around 75% of rail journeys to start or end

:17:15. > :17:30.at a step three station, and the programme will deliver 100 and 50 --

:17:31. > :17:33.150 step three station 's. I would like to thank the Minister. Every

:17:34. > :17:40.member of the House would want to congratulate the friends of my local

:17:41. > :17:46.station for the massive investment in the station, meaning it will be

:17:47. > :17:50.totally accessible for disabled people from the end of next month.

:17:51. > :18:09.That many of us are concerned about the slashing in funding by 42% of

:18:10. > :18:12.very basic, providing ramps and very basic, providing ramps and

:18:13. > :18:16.this? Why have they not changed this? Why have they not changed

:18:17. > :18:19.their mind? I am aware of the new footbridge at the station that will

:18:20. > :18:46.vastly improve facilities. I do not recognise what she says. The

:18:47. > :18:48.and we are building upon the success and we are building upon the success

:18:49. > :18:49.of it launched by the previous government. 1200 stations

:18:50. > :18:51.benefited from the smaller scale benefited from the smaller

:18:52. > :18:53.improvements, and to build on the improvements, and to build on the

:18:54. > :18:54.success ?160 million of additional success ?160 million of additional

:18:55. > :18:56.will extend the scheme to a further will extend the scheme to a further

:18:57. > :18:57.68 stations. I'm sure you will join 68 stations. I'm sure you will join

:18:58. > :18:58.University on its new Chancellor, University on its new Chancellor,

:18:59. > :19:05.Taney Grey Thompson. She has to get herself up the impossibly deep

:19:06. > :19:14.station, which Network Rail say they cannot do. Is this is what we should

:19:15. > :19:17.expect by slashing the grant by 40%? The University will benefit from her

:19:18. > :19:28.involvement. The bottom line is that the Department for Transport, and I

:19:29. > :19:41.will look into this. The Department for Transport is committed, and we

:19:42. > :19:44.are backing this programme, rolling out more disability access onto the

:19:45. > :19:49.buses. This is a real measure of success on the programme has

:19:50. > :19:53.generated a positive response. If we look at the findings of research at

:19:54. > :20:00.stations which have benefited from the programme, those passengers with

:20:01. > :20:04.physical impairment say they have a better travelling experience as a

:20:05. > :20:14.result, going up considerably for people with wheelchairs. The

:20:15. > :20:19.Minister will know that around 60% of disabled people live in a

:20:20. > :20:25.household without a car, and disabled people use buses 20% more

:20:26. > :20:28.than others. He will also know that 70% of local authorities have cut

:20:29. > :20:33.funding since 2010, and more are on the way. Does he really understand

:20:34. > :20:40.what impact these cuts will have on disabled people, and what proper

:20:41. > :20:49.assessment has he done on the potential impact? May I welcome him

:20:50. > :20:56.to his place. I am acutely aware of how important buses are afforded

:20:57. > :21:02.disabled people and also -- buses are for disabled people, and also

:21:03. > :21:14.others. Of course the implications for all bus users are considered

:21:15. > :21:22.when planning budgets. I will answer this with questions 14 and 16. Since

:21:23. > :21:27.2010 my Department has overseen the successful delivery of 50 miles of

:21:28. > :21:32.electrified track. Construction is under way between Ealing Broadway

:21:33. > :21:36.and Acton Main line, to remove the slow-moving freight trains of the

:21:37. > :21:43.lines to enable high-frequency electric Crossrail trains. From

:21:44. > :21:46.Paddington and through her constituency to Bristol, on the

:21:47. > :21:51.Cardiff, Network Rail have installed a quarter of 14,000 Poles needed to

:21:52. > :22:00.turn the centuries-old great Western line into a railway fit for the 21st

:22:01. > :22:01.century. Can you ensure that the century. Can you ensure that the

:22:02. > :22:08.electrification goes ahead on time, along with other improvements, to

:22:09. > :22:18.deliver benefits quickly, as my constituents cannot wait until 2019

:22:19. > :22:24.and the start of Crossrail. I am sorry they cannot wait, they waited

:22:25. > :22:31.for 13 years between 1997 and 2010, with nothing happening. Teesside has

:22:32. > :22:40.had a hammering in this place over the past several weeks. But we are

:22:41. > :22:45.resilient bunch, illustrated by the victory at Old Trafford last night!

:22:46. > :22:51.We are top of the league on the elect of the nation task force list

:22:52. > :23:00.from Northallerton to Middlesbrough. When might we see progress on this?

:23:01. > :23:05.Can I congratulate him because I am also a football supporter,

:23:06. > :23:13.supporting Derby County, so he has done incredibly well as far as that

:23:14. > :23:16.is concerned. He makes a fair point, there is a huge amount of steel used

:23:17. > :23:20.by Network Rail, and I know that by Network Rail, and I know that

:23:21. > :23:30.helps his own constituency as well. I will look into the point he makes.

:23:31. > :23:37.The Chancellor visited North Wales in July and said, he will look at

:23:38. > :23:48.the case for electrification of the North line from Crewe to Wales. Can

:23:49. > :24:03.fine for me what look at -- can he defined for me what look at means?

:24:04. > :24:10.During 13 years, ten miles was achieved! So we will certainly look

:24:11. > :24:13.at this. It is the way to go forward as far as railways are concerned. I

:24:14. > :24:22.want to look at that along with other plans for CP six. As I

:24:23. > :24:27.witnessed again last Monday, travellers going between Bolton and

:24:28. > :24:32.Manchester at the quickly squashed like sardines. Can the Secretary of

:24:33. > :24:40.State update the House as to how the engineering works on the line are

:24:41. > :24:48.coming along, particularly as far as boring the tunnel? He is right as to

:24:49. > :24:53.what we need to do, and I was going to refer to Farnworth tunnel. It has

:24:54. > :24:57.had problems but has been completed. That will help to increase the

:24:58. > :24:58.capacity on the line, and the changes he is calling for, the

:24:59. > :25:05.increased capacity he is wanting is increased capacity he is wanting is

:25:06. > :25:12.going to take place and I would like to pay tribute to all those people

:25:13. > :25:23.who worked tirelessly to do the tunnel, which is coming in on time.

:25:24. > :25:34.As most of the mainline will go on to the next period, can he make sure

:25:35. > :25:43.the line is extended to improve services? He took evidence a few

:25:44. > :25:47.weeks ago from the chief executive of Network Rail, and the pointy

:25:48. > :25:54.makes about looking at the lines in total is important, and I will be in

:25:55. > :25:59.mind his comments. I very much welcome the news that the

:26:00. > :26:03.electrification of the trans-Pennine route is now full on track. -- a

:26:04. > :26:08.contract. What are the new, improved benefits that it will bring the

:26:09. > :26:23.looking substantial improvements as looking substantial improvements as

:26:24. > :26:55.main cities in the North, main cities in the North,

:26:56. > :27:07.Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield and Newcastle are concerned, and we will

:27:08. > :27:22.bring more seats, more capacity, and it is

:27:23. > :27:29.Is Network Rail to blame for the delay? Is it a symptom of the

:27:30. > :27:34.privatised structure of our railway that causes the kind of

:27:35. > :27:42.fragmentation that makes disasters like this inevitable? Can I stop my

:27:43. > :27:47.welcoming him to his position. When he talks about privatised -- I

:27:48. > :27:50.start. This is an example of where somebody who has not held

:27:51. > :27:55.ministerial office can rightly forget everything that happened in

:27:56. > :28:03.the past. I remember the Labour candidate for the Mayor of London

:28:04. > :28:09.next year is said that one reason, we are able to invest record sums is

:28:10. > :28:13.the revenue rail franchises bring in and premiums they pay. We are seeing

:28:14. > :28:17.record investment in railways because of the way we are currently

:28:18. > :28:22.running it. At the time it was nationalised we saw a declining

:28:23. > :28:26.railway, a useless railway, not fit for purpose, something which the

:28:27. > :28:34.party opposite wants to go back to. Question number seven.

:28:35. > :28:37.Mr Speaker, I regularly meet with senior officials of Network Rail to

:28:38. > :28:45.discuss key issues facing the company and recent meetings have

:28:46. > :28:51.focused on this beta Hendy review and finance programme. Will he also

:28:52. > :28:56.reiterate the commitment to the recommendation of the great Eastern

:28:57. > :28:59.mainline task force that rings benefits to all counties and will he

:29:00. > :29:08.ensure Network Rail delivers the necessary improvement? Yes, I am

:29:09. > :29:12.glad to say we have been able to issue the invitation to tender as

:29:13. > :29:16.far as the East Anglia franchise is concerned, something she has been

:29:17. > :29:21.persistently should do. In seeing that we get services to Norwich in

:29:22. > :29:25.90 minutes and Ipswich in 60 and that forms part of that tender. She

:29:26. > :29:30.is right about the other improvements we need to look at and

:29:31. > :29:37.she can take my assurance I will raise those with Sir Peter Hendy.

:29:38. > :29:41.What recent discussions has he had with Network Rail regarding the

:29:42. > :29:47.electrification of the Liverpool and Manchester line passes through

:29:48. > :29:51.witness in Warrington? I think I need more direction as to the

:29:52. > :29:54.question. There has been electrification between Liverpool

:29:55. > :29:57.and Manchester and that is welcome and we have electric trains running

:29:58. > :30:01.on that and soon there will be more running on that line. If he has a

:30:02. > :30:07.more specific point perhaps he would like to write to me. During the

:30:08. > :30:11.great storms in the West Country in 2014 we found our mainline route to

:30:12. > :30:18.Cornwall floating in the sea. Can I ask him whether the peninsula

:30:19. > :30:26.proposals, including the Okehampton link, whether they have come up with

:30:27. > :30:32.any conclusions because it would add benefits to our economic potential

:30:33. > :30:36.in Cornwall. I do remember this and I also remember the valiant way in

:30:37. > :30:42.which Network Rail restored that link. They did an exceptional job in

:30:43. > :30:46.difficult situations. Even at this stage I would like to add my thanks

:30:47. > :30:51.to all who worked on that scheme in restoring that link. He is right

:30:52. > :30:55.about the task force the Peninsula group have brought forward and we

:30:56. > :31:03.are looking at their report and will have more to say on it once the

:31:04. > :31:08.planning of CP five is undertaken. The welcome creation of the national

:31:09. > :31:13.academy for a rail will help plug some of the skills shortage behind

:31:14. > :31:17.many of the delays in electrification. What concerns does

:31:18. > :31:22.he have earned does he share my concern the proposed 40% court to

:31:23. > :31:28.this budget will undermine the ability of the Academy to deliver on

:31:29. > :31:32.skills shortages? He is right about the academy at Northampton. I was

:31:33. > :31:36.there some months ago and the minister from rail I it a few weeks

:31:37. > :31:44.ago and it will play an important role in skills. It is up skilling

:31:45. > :31:49.about what the whole industry has to do and bring it together and that is

:31:50. > :31:55.one reason I asked the chairman of Crossrail to coordinate across the

:31:56. > :32:04.transport sector about apprenticeships. Number eight, Mr

:32:05. > :32:08.Speaker. On the 21st of August my right honourable friend the

:32:09. > :32:12.Secretary of State announced the appointment of Terry Morgan the

:32:13. > :32:16.chair of Crossrail to develop a transport and infrastructure skills

:32:17. > :32:21.strategy. It will help ensure the industry has the right people and

:32:22. > :32:27.skills to deliver the programme of transport infrastructure and

:32:28. > :32:32.investment. I was recently fortunate to visit a college in basalt and

:32:33. > :32:36.that has created a unique partnership between engineering and

:32:37. > :32:40.construction companies to train the next generation of technicians. Can

:32:41. > :32:46.I invite him to look at their model and perhaps visit with a view to

:32:47. > :32:50.widening the range of opportunities across the whole country to give

:32:51. > :32:56.young people the skills to deliver our plans? I will look at the

:32:57. > :33:02.approach used by them and would like to visit. It is vital colleges and

:33:03. > :33:07.universities work with employers to get the skills industry needs. It is

:33:08. > :33:12.crucial in transport as more people are required. I would highlight the

:33:13. > :33:17.work of the college to Terry Morgan as he develops the strategy. An

:33:18. > :33:26.important element of the transport infrastructure is the road haulage

:33:27. > :33:32.industry that helps the economy and the government. Driving up exports.

:33:33. > :33:37.They reported a recruitment shortage of 54,000 in drivers which is likely

:33:38. > :33:42.to increase because of the ageing population. What plans and

:33:43. > :33:49.discussions has the minister had to ensure young people are encouraged

:33:50. > :33:54.to take up opportunities? The industry has a responsibility to

:33:55. > :33:58.bring new people in and I am aware of the recruitment challenges. There

:33:59. > :34:02.is a retention issue. I have met with the industry and will continue

:34:03. > :34:07.to do so. It is important this industry brings people into it. If

:34:08. > :34:10.we did not have it performing to a high level of the country would

:34:11. > :34:17.grind to a halt in a couple of days. Number nine, Mr Speaker. The

:34:18. > :34:21.Chancellor announced in the 2015 budget report the government will

:34:22. > :34:24.commission a study into the possibility of reopening Plymouth

:34:25. > :34:31.airport. I am keen to determine the final form of the study and how best

:34:32. > :34:36.to take it forward. As he knows Plymouth will be the focus of global

:34:37. > :34:42.attention in relation to in five years' time Mayflower 2020, when the

:34:43. > :34:47.Mayflower set sail to found the American colonies. Does he agree

:34:48. > :34:53.that to be a major tourism area we need to make sure people can get to

:34:54. > :35:00.Plymouth which means improved roads and railways and air links? That new

:35:01. > :35:11.colony worked out quite well, certainly! He is right that

:35:12. > :35:15.investment in this is vital to the south-west which is why we have

:35:16. > :35:19.committed ?31 million on the great Western route. We heard about the

:35:20. > :35:26.?40 million to fix Dawlish and the long overdue investment on the 830

:35:27. > :35:30.and a 303 which has long been a scourge of tourists and business

:35:31. > :35:40.people driving to the south-west -- a 30. Recent improvements to

:35:41. > :35:43.security measures include fencing, additional security guards, dogs,

:35:44. > :35:48.improved CCTV including thermal imaging. In addition, the French

:35:49. > :35:57.government has committed significant police resources to Calais. On a

:35:58. > :36:02.summer business tour I met exporters having trouble getting goods into

:36:03. > :36:05.Europe. Can he assure me and reddish businesses his department is doing

:36:06. > :36:12.everything he can to make sure my businesses prosper in the future?

:36:13. > :36:16.The channel link is vitally important to the whole UK economy

:36:17. > :36:19.and particularly the haulage industry. I was at Folkestone and

:36:20. > :36:25.saw some of the problems first-hand, in particular issues regarding

:36:26. > :36:31.just-in-time delivery of parts to the motor industry for steel rails

:36:32. > :36:35.produced in Scunthorpe which are exported to the continent and

:36:36. > :36:44.lobster produced in my constituency that travels in trucks to France and

:36:45. > :36:49.Spain. This summer the 23 my constituency was close for 32 days.

:36:50. > :36:54.I'm grateful for the attention the ministerial team is giving to this

:36:55. > :37:00.problem. Can he update me on the progress to avoid a repeat of the

:37:01. > :37:05.closures this summer next summer. The key to preventing a recurrence

:37:06. > :37:12.of the problems this summer is sorting out issues in France. I am

:37:13. > :37:16.pleased to say the industrial dispute has been solved and we do

:37:17. > :37:19.not have that additional problem. The government put in place a

:37:20. > :37:23.contingency plan at Manston. It would have been there to relieve the

:37:24. > :37:26.problem. It is important to look at how we can improve the situation

:37:27. > :37:44.where we have disruption on the channel. Thank you Mr Speaker. I

:37:45. > :37:48.have no representations on this topic. I look forward to a

:37:49. > :37:54.productive engagement with all devolved administrations on this

:37:55. > :38:01.subject. The minister may not be aware that part of the expensive

:38:02. > :38:08.lobbying campaign undertaken on both sides, passengers using Scottish

:38:09. > :38:12.airports are deliberately targeted. If the decision goes the wrong way

:38:13. > :38:17.Scotland will be cut off from the rest of the world, it has been said,

:38:18. > :38:21.which is scaremongering and will not happen. Depending on how the

:38:22. > :38:24.decision goes, the potential of bringing benefit to Scotland and the

:38:25. > :38:31.potential to cause damage to Scotland. Will he give an assurance

:38:32. > :38:34.that when the time comes he will make representations to make sure

:38:35. > :38:40.all members of this House play an equal part in the debate? The rest

:38:41. > :38:45.-- the representations I have received underlines the importance

:38:46. > :38:49.is of having good connectivity to international routes and that may be

:38:50. > :38:55.through an improved additional runway capacity in the south-east.

:38:56. > :38:59.We have been helped to that extent by giving help to the Dundee service

:39:00. > :39:11.to allow passengers reach the capital. Would he agree that

:39:12. > :39:14.expanding connectivity with the Scottish airports is one of the best

:39:15. > :39:21.things we can do to strengthen the United Kingdom? The government will

:39:22. > :39:32.be making an announcement in due course with response to the report

:39:33. > :39:43.and it would be premature to comment on this stage. On the subject of

:39:44. > :39:46.regional airports, agreeing about the commercial and economic and

:39:47. > :39:50.social connectivity required, he said, and his words were, the slots

:39:51. > :39:55.needed by Scottish airports and other airports that have lost them.

:39:56. > :39:59.I hope we can address that. I want to reflect on that while considering

:40:00. > :40:04.the whole report. Does he still agree about the development's

:40:05. > :40:08.importance to Scotland's regional airports such as Dundee and has

:40:09. > :40:13.there been progress on his thinking about root development and public

:40:14. > :40:19.service obligations? I have always made it clear how important I view

:40:20. > :40:23.the local airports. The regional international airports and how big a

:40:24. > :40:28.part they play in the economic development of areas particularly in

:40:29. > :40:31.Scotland. We need to look at aviation as a whole but the

:40:32. > :40:36.representations I get is how important it is to get connectivity,

:40:37. > :40:40.whether through Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt, or indeed to slots

:40:41. > :40:46.available in the south-east. Given this recognition and importance, can

:40:47. > :40:50.he confirm any decision on the development of a third runway at

:40:51. > :40:55.Heathrow or development at Gatwick would not have to go through an

:40:56. > :41:00.additional stage in the legislative process, a veto on Scottish MPs, as

:41:01. > :41:11.suggested by the honourable member for Milton Keynes, and will... What

:41:12. > :41:15.will he do to make sure this subject will be delivered from evil? It is

:41:16. > :41:24.premature to enter that discussion. I am always in favour of jumping

:41:25. > :41:30.one's fences when one reaches them. Could the minister tell me how many

:41:31. > :41:35.of the 47 recommendations ignored by the Airport Commission would have

:41:36. > :41:38.benefited Scotland? And whether those recommendations would have

:41:39. > :41:39.increased the domestic flights on likely option at Heathrow which

:41:40. > :41:50.would decrease them. One of the concerns I have picked up

:41:51. > :41:55.around the country outside the south-east is a pressure for slots

:41:56. > :41:59.at Heathrow and Gatwick at peak times means there are always

:42:00. > :42:04.concerns about those connecting flights coming in from other parts

:42:05. > :42:14.of the country, which we need to -- we are very well aware of Anthony to

:42:15. > :42:20.address. -- need to address. We're making great progress in upgrading

:42:21. > :42:21.the railway in the south-west, including delivering new trains to

:42:22. > :42:26.carry more people on faster journeys carry more people on faster journeys

:42:27. > :42:33.and improving resilience to make sure the region can stay connect it.

:42:34. > :42:39.The task force recently published its interim report on a 20 year plan

:42:40. > :42:46.for Devon and will. Can he confirm that the primary aim is to secure

:42:47. > :42:49.the resilience to South Devon, and any other options will be

:42:50. > :42:58.additional, not alternatives. The other options would indeed be

:42:59. > :43:02.impact will overruns and the cost impact will overruns and the cost

:43:03. > :43:18.have on the investment she has mentioned? -- the overruns. Can he

:43:19. > :43:28.repeat the question? She was chuntering to her colleague!

:43:29. > :43:31.Scandalous disregard! What impact will overruns and the cost have on

:43:32. > :43:38.the investment she has mentioned? Apologies. I was misspeaking on the

:43:39. > :43:44.double-check. The roots will be double-check. The roots will be

:43:45. > :43:47.additional, not alternative. He knows that there is an enormous

:43:48. > :43:55.south-west, in terms of Brazilians, south-west, in terms of Brazilians,

:43:56. > :43:58.they hundreds new trains. I wish he would get behind the attempt to the

:43:59. > :44:10.government to connect the vital region, rather than keep shouting

:44:11. > :44:15.about things. He will be delighted to know that the first section of

:44:16. > :44:26.the rail line was opened this Monday, allowing people to travel

:44:27. > :44:27.from Oxford to London Marylebone. I welcome this new service running

:44:28. > :44:33.along the first stage. It is a very along the first stage. It is a very

:44:34. > :44:36.strong business case, as is the project as a wall. Will she do

:44:37. > :44:44.everything to make sure the Hindu review does not delay this? Yes, and

:44:45. > :44:46.we will know more about it in the next few weeks. I want to pay

:44:47. > :44:52.tribute to these MPs who have left us in no doubt of the importance of

:44:53. > :45:06.this East to West rail link. Topical questions. I have seen first hand

:45:07. > :45:08.the work Network Rail are doing, including a ?44 million regeneration

:45:09. > :45:13.of Manchester Victoria station, making it a station Manchester can

:45:14. > :45:17.be proud of. It was voted the worst station in Britain in 2009. The

:45:18. > :45:26.rebuilding of Birmingham new Street station, transforming it. And the

:45:27. > :45:28.reconstruction of bandwidth tunnel, allowing trains to travel from

:45:29. > :45:33.Manchester to Bolton. This will allow diesel trains to be used in

:45:34. > :45:40.the north-west, providing 30,000 more seats per week. This will help

:45:41. > :45:44.to build a Northern Powerhouse. I will not refer to Sheffield

:45:45. > :45:49.you will be pleased to hear. I will you will be pleased to hear. I will

:45:50. > :45:53.refer to Sir David Higgins' report, where he described transport links

:45:54. > :45:59.between Sheffield and Manchester as a matter of national concern. Will

:46:00. > :46:08.he give serious consideration that HSV should link Manchester and

:46:09. > :46:12.Sheffield, and secondly that consideration is given to a route

:46:13. > :46:15.under the Pennines as the only serious way to link Sheffield and

:46:16. > :46:24.Manchester without damaging the Manchester without damaging the

:46:25. > :46:35.national park? Harsh HS3. Can I agree that more needs to be done to

:46:36. > :47:03.improve the links between Sheffield and Manchester, and I hope that when

:47:04. > :47:03.we announced the new franchise for trans-Pennine and Northern Rail,

:47:04. > :47:06.will go some way to meet the will go some way to meet the

:47:07. > :47:10.demands. The two projects he talks about are huge. Work is being done

:47:11. > :47:11.by Colin Matthews on whether a tunnel is the right way forward, and

:47:12. > :47:11.we expect more up dates that next we expect more up dates that next

:47:12. > :47:12.year. On HS3, I understand the year. On HS3, I understand the

:47:13. > :47:12.Figures released by male honourable Figures released by male honourable

:47:13. > :47:14.Severn Bridge is generating more Severn Bridge is generating more

:47:15. > :47:20.profit... It is a great opportunity for the government to slash the toll

:47:21. > :47:23.prices on the bridge, and still have enough money to pay for the

:47:24. > :47:33.maintenance. -- generating more profit than the costs. The toll

:47:34. > :47:37.prices set by others to repay the construction, finance, maintenance

:47:38. > :47:52.and operation costs. We expect the costs to be recovered in 2018, and

:47:53. > :47:55.Government. We're working on the Government. We're working on the

:47:56. > :47:58.future of their son I have heard future of their son I have heard

:47:59. > :48:02.what he has said and I will keep updated. We have always supported

:48:03. > :48:03.Labour councillors on time and we are, including when they were

:48:04. > :48:11.subjected to appalling abuse. I subjected to appalling abuse. I

:48:12. > :48:17.cause of bust tendering. But does he cause of bust tendering. But does he

:48:18. > :48:18.agree with me that the bill must be available to all communities that

:48:19. > :48:28.want them, including rural and isolated communities? -- bus

:48:29. > :48:35.tendering. She knows what will come next, I have been doing this job for

:48:36. > :48:39.three years, the fourth -- she is the fourth shadow Secretary of State

:48:40. > :48:51.I have seen. We will see whether I have seen. We will see whether

:48:52. > :48:53.there is more to come. She asks me and asserts she knows what is in the

:48:54. > :48:57.bus bill. It has not yet been bus bill. It has not yet been

:48:58. > :49:05.published, so I am interested to know how it has been achieved. The

:49:06. > :49:06.simple point is that we're there are elected mayor is, there will be

:49:07. > :49:15.opportunities for those areas to opportunities for those areas to

:49:16. > :49:20.take advantage of. I was hoping for a straight answer to a straight

:49:21. > :49:30.question. With more than 2000 routes lost and downgraded, and fares up by

:49:31. > :49:37.25%, will he rule out any plans to slash support for buses even

:49:38. > :49:41.further? Well, I am not in a position to announce the Spending

:49:42. > :49:45.Review. Like every other member of the House, she will need to wait

:49:46. > :49:49.until the Spending Review is announced by my right honourable

:49:50. > :49:54.friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the 25th of November.

:49:55. > :50:01.I hope that as a straight answer. Is he aware that added to the many

:50:02. > :50:06.defects in the rolling stock which operates on the West Anglia line,

:50:07. > :50:12.there occurred this week a case of trains stopping, screeching to a

:50:13. > :50:26.halt near Bishops Stortford, apparently for lack of air. Surely

:50:27. > :50:30.more support should be given to this franchise which can offer more

:50:31. > :50:35.assurances for rolling stock. I will make enquiries into this, I do not

:50:36. > :50:40.know about the specific case but I will do by later on today, I assure

:50:41. > :50:47.him. He is absolutely right about the need to improve rolling stock

:50:48. > :50:52.availability, and I hope the invitation to tender on the line

:50:53. > :50:57.will do this. Can the Secretary of State tell the House what measures

:50:58. > :51:07.Network Rail are taking to ensure that skilled rail jobs no longer

:51:08. > :51:14.appear on the cheers -- level two skill shortages list. 95% is brought

:51:15. > :51:17.from UK production, but if I have got the wrong part of his question,

:51:18. > :51:24.perhaps he can write to me and I will write back to him. The

:51:25. > :51:28.Secretary of State mentioned the success of the Norwich campaigns.

:51:29. > :51:35.Worcester is six miles further from London as the crow flies, but my

:51:36. > :51:40.constituents take 150 minutes to reach the capital from Worcester.

:51:41. > :51:44.Can he do everything he can to lean on great Western and Network Rail to

:51:45. > :51:55.get the service down to under two hours? My honourable friends have

:51:56. > :52:00.campaigned on this issue. There is work going on on ways to improve

:52:01. > :52:06.journey time, and we have started the work on delivering it. Commuter

:52:07. > :52:07.routes into Manchester are soon to lose trains to London Midland,

:52:08. > :52:10.raising memories of the raising memories of the

:52:11. > :52:16.trans-Pennine rolling stock to buckle, which cost ?20 million and

:52:17. > :52:24.let the services being downgraded. The Secretary of State, did he have

:52:25. > :52:29.an option in the latest cased, and is this not another example of

:52:30. > :52:37.fragmented railway is letting them passengers? He should just wait and

:52:38. > :52:43.see what comes out of the two franchises. In 2004, it is worth

:52:44. > :52:53.remembering that when the franchise was last let, it was done on a no

:52:54. > :52:56.growth basis. That is what the last government thought of the Northern

:52:57. > :53:06.Powerhouse. I invite him to wait and see the announcements made shortly.

:53:07. > :53:09.Can I seek assurances from the Minister that the new stations fund

:53:10. > :53:17.will be accessible to applications from councils, as the rail Minister

:53:18. > :53:19.knows a new station in my constituency has one of the

:53:20. > :53:20.strongest business cases in the North Devon, of which my

:53:21. > :53:25.constituents which hugely benefit. constituents which hugely benefit.

:53:26. > :53:26.The new station 's fund announced in The new station 's fund announced in

:53:27. > :53:37.applicants. The Derbyshire Dales is applicants. The Derbyshire Dales is

:53:38. > :53:43.a hub for manufacturing in regard to the rail industry. Does he agree

:53:44. > :53:46.that this is a real opportunity for forward planning on getting

:53:47. > :53:50.manufacturers to come together to prepare bids for the work of HS2?

:53:51. > :53:57.Much as this causes me pain, I will Much as this causes me pain, I will

:53:58. > :54:03.agree with the honourable member! The point he makes is absolutely

:54:04. > :54:06.not only companies within the not only companies within the

:54:07. > :54:09.position of taking advantage of it, position of taking advantage of it,

:54:10. > :54:18.but others as well. -- at in the but others as well. -- at in the

:54:19. > :54:29.the government has made ?6 billion the government has made ?6 billion

:54:30. > :54:39.roads, how can we encourage local roads, how can we encourage local

:54:40. > :54:41.repairs? We are supporting local repairs? We are supporting local

:54:42. > :54:41.authorities with financial support, which is a record ?6 billion

:54:42. > :54:41.now and 2021 for highways now and 2021 for highways

:54:42. > :54:43.maintenance. We are also encouraging maintenance. We are also encouraging

:54:44. > :54:44.them to look at how they manage their programmes, and 20% of local

:54:45. > :54:47.authorities have signed up to an authorities have signed up to an

:54:48. > :54:50.efficiency programme. What we're efficiency programme. What we're

:54:51. > :54:54.talking about here is a significant talking about here is a significant

:54:55. > :55:01.investment, and if the deal with 18 investment, and if the deal with 18

:55:02. > :55:12.able to deal with 18 million able to deal with 18 million

:55:13. > :55:15.industry is likely to suffer greatly industry is likely to suffer greatly

:55:16. > :55:21.with the latest announcements of steel closures. Will he persuade his

:55:22. > :55:24.honourable friend the Prime Minister honourable friend the Prime Minister

:55:25. > :55:26.to end his policy of gifting British to end his policy of gifting

:55:27. > :55:36.jobs to Chinese workers? I am all jobs to Chinese workers? I am all

:55:37. > :55:40.too aware of the importance of ports in getting exports out of the

:55:41. > :55:45.country and imports in. I was in Bristol yesterday which will benefit

:55:46. > :55:51.from developments in the nuclear industry, financed partly by the

:55:52. > :55:59.Chinese. I am going to Felixstowe today to see developments. The

:56:00. > :56:01.government's commitment to join the M 45 and improvements to a

:56:02. > :56:10.roundabout were warmly welcomed by East North Hampshire residents. Can

:56:11. > :56:13.he provide us with an update? I will check progress on this and

:56:14. > :56:18.back to the honourable gentleman. back to the honourable gentleman.

:56:19. > :56:20.Many constituents of mine rely on the number 44 bus to get the

:56:21. > :56:22.Southport Hospital, and the service has been cut as a result of cuts by

:56:23. > :56:28.his department. He spoke earlier his department. He spoke earlier

:56:29. > :56:33.about the opportunity of having directly elected mayor is, but if

:56:34. > :56:34.the cuts continue, the additional powers will be meaningless and of no

:56:35. > :56:43.help to my constituents. I want to help to my constituents. I want to

:56:44. > :56:47.see the widening of services to all our constituents, which is why the

:56:48. > :56:49.government is supporting transport investment to a record amount in

:56:50. > :57:13.this Parliament. The motorway that are restricted to

:57:14. > :57:20.50 mph. The work should be done for the convenience of the road users

:57:21. > :57:22.and not the highly agency. I entirely agree with my honourable

:57:23. > :57:28.friend and I think the wrong stretches of road works frustrate

:57:29. > :57:35.riders, especially as the new completion. - long stretches. We

:57:36. > :57:40.want stretches which are shorter in length and a reduced time. He will

:57:41. > :57:47.be reduced down from one third to one half of the current size. You

:57:48. > :57:53.will be evening and weekend working. If the Minister can get it sorted,

:57:54. > :58:02.who knows, he might be carried aloft in the House. The award is linking

:58:03. > :58:09.of the great cities of the North but it did not include Hull. Now we have

:58:10. > :58:14.come to the electrification of routes when will be secretary give

:58:15. > :58:21.the green light to the initiative to electrify the line all baby to hold?

:58:22. > :58:33.I do apologise to the honourable lady. - Hull. The honourable lady

:58:34. > :58:39.says they are not that many but I think there are a number of eight

:58:40. > :58:46.cities in the north. If I named them all I would get into trouble. -

:58:47. > :58:51.great cities. I have been able to move forward with infrastructure

:58:52. > :58:56.investment. As far as giving the extra money we gave to take the

:58:57. > :59:03.scheme she is talking up to HS2 I am waiting for talk is about that

:59:04. > :59:07.particular scheme. Yesterday there was an important point of order from

:59:08. > :59:13.a wide commie member when he pointed out how excellent the transport

:59:14. > :59:15.department was in answering questions and hopefully the Treasury

:59:16. > :59:20.Department is in answering questions. As the Secretary Of State

:59:21. > :59:27.been contacted by the Chancellor to find out how it is done? I am sure

:59:28. > :59:37.that is meant a helpful question. In the run up to the spending review,

:59:38. > :59:41.it is not. I think chartered engineer and as a member of the IEE

:59:42. > :59:47.G I was horrified to learn that software engineering had an sleep

:59:48. > :59:53.and used to cheat legitimate regulation and possibly undermine

:59:54. > :59:56.public health. What discussions has he had with the professional bodies,

:59:57. > :00:00.the skills Minister and the automotive industry to ensure the

:00:01. > :00:10.whole swag and sort of dark engineering has now place here? The

:00:11. > :00:14.industry across the East is very embarrassed by what has happened and

:00:15. > :00:21.I am sure they will take proper action on the measures. I wonder if

:00:22. > :00:26.my honourable friend could update the house or more progress is being

:00:27. > :00:32.made to bring Crossrail to through Harold Wilson's station? We are out

:00:33. > :00:36.to consultation but I would expect my honourable friend to have said

:00:37. > :00:43.what a great job we are doing as far as Crossrail one has been done. But

:00:44. > :00:51.I have come to learn no sooner do you complete one project and people

:00:52. > :00:57.are talking about the second. Last week the pilot was Mike union wrote

:00:58. > :01:01.to the management at Albany who operates selfless as to the

:01:02. > :01:04.Highlands and Islands about that concern where cases are being

:01:05. > :01:08.returned to the line despite being unserviceable. They brought in some

:01:09. > :01:15.cases a craft contain defects that in some cases affect safety and in

:01:16. > :01:20.other cases affect the aircraft to be an usable. These are lifeline

:01:21. > :01:26.services to some of the most economically fragile communities in

:01:27. > :01:33.the country. What can the aviation Minister do to ensure, through his

:01:34. > :01:35.department or the CE, our local communities can retain full

:01:36. > :01:44.confidence in these crucial services? I regularly meet with that

:01:45. > :01:48.union. It is a good example of how unions can work with government to

:01:49. > :01:57.promote their members. Safety is our top priority for air travel in the

:01:58. > :02:05.UK. We have two meet strict maintenance requirements. I

:02:06. > :02:12.understand that the CAA is aware of the difficulties and is taking care

:02:13. > :02:15.of safety requirements. This matter will be under review. I want to hear

:02:16. > :02:22.from a member of the select committee. Thank you. In recent

:02:23. > :02:27.weeks passengers on the Cleethorpes to Manchester rail routes have had

:02:28. > :02:31.to the top with cancellations due to driver shortage. Customers do not

:02:32. > :02:36.care if this is the company problem or union problem but can the good

:02:37. > :02:42.offices be used to sort this out, please? I will be delighted to do so

:02:43. > :02:47.and will try to do so. This is why the new into regions to end have

:02:48. > :02:55.customary expedience right at the heart of them. Business question,

:02:56. > :02:58.Chris Bryant. I wonder whether the leader of the house could give as

:02:59. > :03:04.the business for next week. The leader of the house. The business

:03:05. > :03:08.for next week, on Monday second November we will have the second

:03:09. > :03:11.reading of the Housing and planning Bill, on Tuesday November, second

:03:12. > :03:17.reading of the European approvals will Lord's. All by the remaining

:03:18. > :03:21.stages of the national insurance contributions Bill followed by a

:03:22. > :03:26.motion to improve the money resolution for access to medical

:03:27. > :03:29.treatments innovation bill. On Wednesday 4th of November will be

:03:30. > :03:36.the ninth opposition day including a debate on policing. Thursday fifth

:03:37. > :03:40.November a debate on the stake in the bank of Scotland and the future

:03:41. > :03:45.of UK banking followed by a debate on the motion relating to the dog

:03:46. > :03:50.meat trade as determined by the backbench business committee. Friday

:03:51. > :03:53.7th of November will be private members bills. The provisional

:03:54. > :03:57.business for the week commencing 9th of November will include, on Monday

:03:58. > :04:01.the ninth, the remaining stages of the Scotland Bill and on Tuesday the

:04:02. > :04:07.remaining stages of the trade unions bill. The business for Thursday

:04:08. > :04:11.fifth November will be a general debate on funding for schools. Mr

:04:12. > :04:16.Speaker will wish to be reminded as well colleagues that the house will

:04:17. > :04:20.rise for the end of business on Tuesday ten November and return on

:04:21. > :04:24.Monday 16th November. I should add that hearing that need we are

:04:25. > :04:29.expecting a visit from the Indian PM to this house and I hope those

:04:30. > :04:37.colleagues who are around and able to be soap will be part of that

:04:38. > :04:43.visit. Mr Chris Bryant. Yesterday set latter admitted the award of the

:04:44. > :04:47.World Cup to Russia had been decided long before England had in its bed

:04:48. > :04:53.and yesterday the select committee will World Cup sponsors on that

:04:54. > :05:00.complicity in blatter's kleptocratic rule. Can we have a debate on the

:05:01. > :05:08.sink of corruption that is a fact? British taxpayers and football fans

:05:09. > :05:17.have been diddled out of millions. - Fifa. Talking of stitch up jobs, can

:05:18. > :05:21.these eco-explain something he said yesterday, the review from the

:05:22. > :05:25.second Baron of Strathclyde into the privileges of we the Commons, the

:05:26. > :05:29.reader club members that is absolutely essential we do not rush

:05:30. > :05:34.into this and for that matter we should not rush headlong into

:05:35. > :05:38.unfortunately, undermine the leader unfortunately, undermine the leader

:05:39. > :05:42.of the house by telling the world that one yesterday all of this could

:05:43. > :05:47.be done and dusted white Christmas. How can this be right? If the risen

:05:48. > :05:53.issue shouldn't this house a debasing it? It is not a review at

:05:54. > :05:59.all, it is a Fifa style stitch up. I am not sure the government has got

:06:00. > :06:03.over its tantrum of losing in the Lord's on Monday. He has said

:06:04. > :06:07.several times now he will make substantial changes to his plan in

:06:08. > :06:12.the Autumn Statement on November 25. The reader will know the Autumn

:06:13. > :06:17.Statement is precisely that, a statement and no more, it does not

:06:18. > :06:21.actually do anything legislatively. I asked the reader again, will he

:06:22. > :06:27.allow a three-day debate on the effects of the Autumn Statement this

:06:28. > :06:33.year? On Tuesday the chairman of the National Cleese chief counsel and

:06:34. > :06:37.the Deputy Commissioner of the Met police said if the Home Secretary or

:06:38. > :06:42.Chancellor of the Exchequer get their way with the police budget it

:06:43. > :06:48.will be the end of the year of bobbies on the beat. Is that

:06:49. > :06:51.something to be proud of? Officers have already gone and it looks

:06:52. > :06:56.likely more than 20,000 more officers will be lost by the end of

:06:57. > :07:02.this Parliament. We should be devoting our opposition day next

:07:03. > :07:07.week to this. Can the Home Secretary herself answered this debate so we

:07:08. > :07:11.can take her to task? Can we have a debate on the ministerial code of

:07:12. > :07:16.conduct? Deviously this has made clear that there was an overarching

:07:17. > :07:20.duty on ministers to comply with law including international law and

:07:21. > :07:26.treaty obligations. Last week it was revealed that the GM has insisted it

:07:27. > :07:31.Attorney General and conservative Attorney General and conservative

:07:32. > :07:35.Attorney General says it is impossible to understand how this

:07:36. > :07:38.change has been carried out and cover was broken as the head of the

:07:39. > :07:45.contempt for international law. legal service accused number ten of

:07:46. > :07:48.contempt for international law. Surely to goodness a minister's word

:07:49. > :07:53.is still his wand when he signs a duty. Does he still crosses fingers

:07:54. > :08:00.behind his back when he signs treaties? Why on earth was the Ford

:08:01. > :08:06.of conduct issued any ministerial statement to the Lords and still not

:08:07. > :08:11.to the House of Commons? Mr Speaker, many parts of this country as many

:08:12. > :08:16.members have said still have terrible mobile telephone coverage.

:08:17. > :08:18.Last year the government had to withdraw its hourly drafted

:08:19. > :08:23.telecommunications code which was intended to deal with these spots

:08:24. > :08:30.around the country. He promised to bring any new electronic code as a

:08:31. > :08:33.matter of urgency but they've is still no sign of it so can the

:08:34. > :08:39.reader tell us when this will appear? Mobile phone coverage is

:08:40. > :08:45.every bit as much a public utility as water and electricity so will be

:08:46. > :08:49.government get a move on? Mr Speaker I confess I am worried about the

:08:50. > :08:53.state of health of the Chancellor, he looked really appeal earlier this

:08:54. > :08:59.year and I thought. He has, did I see it, something of the night about

:09:00. > :09:04.him. With Halloween upon him can the reader as sure as he will be staying

:09:05. > :09:11.at home on Saturday night when it is dark. It is one thing to scream

:09:12. > :09:15.along with order but quite another to encounter the Chancellor in a

:09:16. > :09:21.dark alley and his form of trick or treat is to suck family finances

:09:22. > :09:28.dry. Talking of Halloween, in Scotland it is the time for guising

:09:29. > :09:31.when people go around in fancy dress but has the member for South

:09:32. > :09:37.Cambridgeshire will expose the fact that however hard the PM has tried

:09:38. > :09:44.to dress the Tory party up, hugging the gays and marrying huskies,

:09:45. > :09:50.conservatism is dead, all that is left is a fake skeleton costume. We

:09:51. > :09:53.should be debating a motion next Thursday on the dog meat trade, I

:09:54. > :09:57.wondered whether this was the debate of the dogs wrecked first the

:09:58. > :10:02.Chancellor has made of the tax credit fiasco but today is award the

:10:03. > :10:08.award the Westminster dog of the year. I wish my deputy's badly

:10:09. > :10:13.behaved Rottweilers well in the competition but I gather that the

:10:14. > :10:20.member for helmet and Rockwell has two dogs called Boris and Maggie. A

:10:21. > :10:28.found bodices behaviour improved significantly when he was castrated.

:10:29. > :10:29.Well this advice be passed on to the Chancellor, Home Secretary and other

:10:30. > :10:39.candidates for the Conservative Party leadership? Leader of the

:10:40. > :10:43.house, Mr Chris Grayling. Can I start by delivering some good news

:10:44. > :10:48.to my honourable friend the member for Kettering who sadly is not in

:10:49. > :10:52.his ways today. I shall also informed the house that you, after

:10:53. > :10:57.receiving positive feedback, have authorised that the new alphabetical

:10:58. > :11:07.meetings will be kept in place for the rest of Parliament. The new warm

:11:08. > :11:14.relationship that exists between the Fs and Gs is getting on well. In all

:11:15. > :11:19.the old terms it has worked well and we will be continuing it. Can I

:11:20. > :11:27.associate myself with the remarks of the honourable gentleman about Fifa?

:11:28. > :11:29.He works hard on the brief and I am reliably informed he was

:11:30. > :11:34.disappointed to move away from that. He knows very well how

:11:35. > :11:39.shocking the developed and sat Fifa have been. It is no excuse

:11:40. > :11:44.whatsoever for what has taken place. I would commend all of those who

:11:45. > :11:48.have been involved in pursuing the investigation to the stage we have

:11:49. > :11:54.reached no. It does look likely that prosecutions will fall and rightly

:11:55. > :11:59.so. It is of absolute importance in a game that is seen around the world

:12:00. > :12:04.as a region for young people that it should be absolutely clean. Those

:12:05. > :12:06.who have left it in a position with it has been this marched by

:12:07. > :12:10.corruption should be dealt with by the full force of the law and

:12:11. > :12:18.changes essential, I completely agree with him on that.

:12:19. > :12:24.Regarding the Strathclyde review into the House of Lords, there will

:12:25. > :12:29.be a full statement about the terms of reference when he is ready to

:12:30. > :12:34.publish those details, which is right and proper. He will take the

:12:35. > :12:40.time necessary, given the scope of the work he intends to do, and he

:12:41. > :12:42.will make clear how that will work. On the tax credits point, I will

:12:43. > :12:46.remind the honourable gentleman that remind the honourable gentleman that

:12:47. > :12:50.we will be using for the Autumn Statement the same procedure is that

:12:51. > :12:53.operated in 13 years of Labour Government. Now they are in

:12:54. > :12:58.change how the House works. We will change how the House works. We will

:12:59. > :13:01.continue to operate the way we have, debating issues fully. We have

:13:02. > :13:10.already had extensive debates on the tax credits issue, and no doubt we

:13:11. > :13:14.will have more. Under Conservative leadership of government and

:13:15. > :13:19.Coalition, and under this government, crime has fallen. We

:13:20. > :13:34.have had to take some difficult decisions, and they are challenges

:13:35. > :13:36.facing the police. He made a point about the ministerial code. I would

:13:37. > :13:44.simply say that under the new ministerial code, listers are still

:13:45. > :13:58.required to uphold the law. We would expect that. -- ministers are still

:13:59. > :14:02.required. We spoke about the Department of Culture, Media and

:14:03. > :14:04.Sport. Just to remind them that the former Secretary of State, now the

:14:05. > :14:11.Business Secretary, secured a deal to secure five Ilion pounds of

:14:12. > :14:29.investment in mobile telephony. We do not just a published. --

:14:30. > :14:32.published documents, we do things. We have watched with interest the

:14:33. > :14:37.pale faces on the side of the House, the huddles of pallid people asking

:14:38. > :14:41.how we get ourselves out of this mess. My worry is for the health of

:14:42. > :14:45.him and his colleagues, not for the him and his colleagues, not for the

:14:46. > :14:50.Chancellor, who I can assure him is in great form. He made reference to

:14:51. > :14:57.the point that this weekend as Halloween. My sympathies today are

:14:58. > :15:02.with the children of the Rhondda. It is my hope that he is not planning

:15:03. > :15:11.to go trick or treating, because can you imagine the horror of a small

:15:12. > :15:29.gentleman is out trick or treating? gentleman is out trick or treating?

:15:30. > :15:40.76-year-old joint Iranians citizen has been held in Iran's notorious

:15:41. > :15:48.where his health deteriorates. -- where his health deteriorates. --

:15:49. > :15:49.the Iranian and British citizen. Has Sun and grandchildren are in the

:15:50. > :16:01.gallery today with a simple message, please let grandpa come

:16:02. > :16:09.his constituent's family and for the his constituent's family and for the

:16:10. > :16:13.work he is doing. Given the obvious urgency of this, I will make a point

:16:14. > :16:17.of ensuring this is communicated immediately after the session to my

:16:18. > :16:19.colleagues in the Foreign Office and I will ask them to ensure that

:16:20. > :16:30.respond as quickly as possible. Can respond as quickly as possible. Can

:16:31. > :16:39.announcing business for next week. announcing business for next week.

:16:40. > :16:48.Our thoughts are very much this morning with the school community

:16:49. > :16:52.their pupils in Aberdeenshire. One their pupils in Aberdeenshire.

:16:53. > :16:55.of my honourable friends was a pupil of my honourable friends was a pupil

:16:56. > :16:55.at this school. This was an at this school. This was an

:16:56. > :16:55.appalling tragedy witnessed appalling tragedy witnessed

:16:56. > :17:04.yesterday. It is Dave four of The Great War of the nobles, and it is

:17:05. > :17:07.starting to get ugly. -- day for. They have released their not so

:17:08. > :17:14.secret weapon, codenamed big boy, to go to the House and sort them out.

:17:15. > :17:16.He is going down there to emasculate the House of Lords and ensure that

:17:17. > :17:24.they never do anything like this again. Of course they can. The House

:17:25. > :17:29.of Lords is without a shred of democratic legitimacy, it represents

:17:30. > :17:32.absolutely no one. I am certain the Tories will get their way when it

:17:33. > :17:38.sensing is a real desire amongst the sensing is a real desire amongst the

:17:39. > :17:41.Conservative benches to deal decisively with the House of Lords.

:17:42. > :17:48.I get the sense they have had enough of that unelected chamber with the

:17:49. > :17:54.Lords, baronets, earls, dancing around like Santa Claus, having a

:17:55. > :18:00.stake in this democracy. I appeal to the Conservative members to join us

:18:01. > :18:09.Let us have a proper enquiry into Let us have a proper enquiry into

:18:10. > :18:14.the role of that place. We get the Scotland Bill back in a couple of

:18:15. > :18:20.weeks, and there is only one day set aside for the remaining stages and

:18:21. > :18:24.third reading. We had four days were not one amendment was made, even

:18:25. > :18:31.though they were backed by every member of Parliament who represented

:18:32. > :18:33.a Scottish constituency. The Secretary of State said he would

:18:34. > :18:36.spend the summer reflecting, and said he would try to bring back

:18:37. > :18:42.Bill in line with what was promised Bill in line with what was promised

:18:43. > :18:48.in the Smith Commission. Surely we need more than one day looking at

:18:49. > :18:52.this. This is the first is in his questions I have had an opportunity

:18:53. > :19:00.to speak of a second-class member of this House. Groaning

:19:01. > :19:06.I am certain the Leader of the House has recognised the sheer anger put

:19:07. > :19:15.forward in Scotland about Scotland's member of -- members of

:19:16. > :19:23.Parliament being told not to leave the union, but as soon as we get

:19:24. > :19:29.here things change. Is this going to be subject to an English veto, and

:19:30. > :19:32.if it is, how will it work out? We are grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for

:19:33. > :19:41.backing the call we have been making about getting rid of the ridiculous

:19:42. > :19:46.that we abandon business for that we abandon business for

:19:47. > :19:49.participating in a voluntary organisations association. I would

:19:50. > :20:00.ask you to use your considerable authority to make sure the summer

:20:01. > :20:04.recess covers all parts of the UK, there school holidays. A new

:20:05. > :20:09.tradition has been taken up by the children of Scotland, where the goal

:20:10. > :20:12.disguised as Conservatives because they are so unusual Andre. The only

:20:13. > :20:21.problem is when they turn up to the door, there is real fear that this

:20:22. > :20:30.people who open the doors that they will get any treats because they are

:20:31. > :20:34.Conservatives. I have a confession to make. Until last week I had not

:20:35. > :20:43.previously heard any of the work of that distinguished band MP four, of

:20:44. > :20:49.which he is a great part. I did not realise what great showman he was.

:20:50. > :20:58.He does bring a bit of that showbiz to this House. A little bit of fake

:20:59. > :21:01.outrage on some theatre. He showed a chink a couple of weeks ago when he

:21:02. > :21:10.said nice things about the House of Lords, but he is back to his usual

:21:11. > :21:14.form. I know where he is coming from, I am confident that we will be

:21:15. > :21:18.able to find a resolution under the guidance of Lord Strathclyde. The

:21:19. > :21:23.fake outrage has been there on the Scotland Bill as well. The Law

:21:24. > :21:29.Society of Scotland emphasised we are delivering what we committed to.

:21:30. > :21:33.I would not expect a group of politicians whose mission is to

:21:34. > :21:38.secure independence for Scotland to do anything else but have fake

:21:39. > :21:45.outrage. We are delivering what we promised. If ever there was an

:21:46. > :21:52.example of that little bit of showbiz that he brings, it is over

:21:53. > :21:55.the issue of English votes. He describes himself as a second-class

:21:56. > :22:01.citizen, which he will never be anywhere. Having listened to all of

:22:02. > :22:05.his arguments, I would remind them about what he said on the 14th of

:22:06. > :22:10.October last year, which is I sympathise totally with English

:22:11. > :22:16.members. Of course they should have English votes for English laws. They

:22:17. > :22:22.have every right to demand English-only legislation. I admire

:22:23. > :22:29.him for this, but on occasion he has a habit of delivering slightly mixed

:22:30. > :22:32.messages. Regarding Conservatives in Scotland, I think people have the

:22:33. > :22:40.reason to be skewered this autumn, come Halloween and the weeks ahead,

:22:41. > :22:43.-- to be frightened. Are the Labour Party. They have been done over by

:22:44. > :22:52.the SNP colleagues, and we intend to do them over as well. The nice

:22:53. > :22:57.quality standard of autism calls for waiting times between referral and

:22:58. > :23:04.initial appointment for assessment to be no longer than three months.

:23:05. > :23:08.-- NICE. Currently these targets are not being met. Could we have a

:23:09. > :23:12.debate on research from the National Autistic Society, which has shown

:23:13. > :23:26.that on average the wait for children is 3.5 years and adults

:23:27. > :23:28.raising concerns the diagnosis. As raising concerns the diagnosis. As

:23:29. > :23:28.every member of this House has every member of this

:23:29. > :23:29.approximately 1000 people in their approximately 1000 people in their

:23:30. > :23:34.constituency suffering from autism, these long waiting times are

:23:35. > :23:44.to crisis point. She makes a very to crisis point. She makes a very

:23:45. > :23:46.important point. As constituency MPs all of us have experience of the

:23:47. > :23:49.autistic child face and the autistic child face and the

:23:50. > :23:53.importance of doing everything we can to give those children the

:23:54. > :24:03.opportunities in life. I am sure opportunities in life. I am sure

:24:04. > :24:09.interest in this area, sheer concern interest in this area, sheer concern

:24:10. > :24:18.is shared by the Secretary of State, is shared by the Secretary of State,

:24:19. > :24:30.and I will raise the concerns with. I would ask her to continue bringing

:24:31. > :24:34.these issues to the House. Does the House and government think that once

:24:35. > :24:35.again, just looking at the House of Lords, is like looking at one

:24:36. > :24:35.on the bicycle. Not looking at the on the bicycle. Not looking at the

:24:36. > :24:36.person driving. Should we have a person driving. Should we have a

:24:37. > :24:37.comprehensive review to bring this comprehensive review to bring this

:24:38. > :24:41.into the 21st century? There are many ways about how the whole of the

:24:42. > :24:51.constitutional arrangements should work. The constitutional committee

:24:52. > :24:54.is engaged in this at the moment. The chair of the committee is hard

:24:55. > :24:56.at work looking at the constitutional arrangements and I'm

:24:57. > :25:06.interesting ideas. As you know the interesting ideas. As you know the

:25:07. > :25:09.credentials of the current UK delegation to the parliamentary

:25:10. > :25:14.assembly to the Council of Europe expire next week. As the membership

:25:15. > :25:18.of the new delegation is the responsibility of Parliament and not

:25:19. > :25:27.the government, will he make time next week for this House to express

:25:28. > :25:33.its opinion? I am aware of the motion down on his order paper --

:25:34. > :25:37.the order paper. This is a matter that I have no doubt the House will

:25:38. > :25:42.give careful consideration to, and the point of a backbench business

:25:43. > :25:48.committee is to ensure there is time available to members of the host to

:25:49. > :25:57.allocate time to debate. -- the Leader of the House to allocate time

:25:58. > :25:59.to debate. Can I thank the Leader of the House for the business

:26:00. > :26:05.statement. For the avoidance of doubt, next Thursday we have two

:26:06. > :26:11.debates from the backbench business committee. One on this taken because

:26:12. > :26:23.Bank of Scotland, and the other is the trade in dog flesh. Could the

:26:24. > :26:25.Leader of the House gives the backbench business committee and

:26:26. > :26:33.early indication if there is any possibility for time in the week

:26:34. > :26:35.beginning 16th November? I cannot give that undertaking, but my

:26:36. > :26:46.expectation is there will be time. I have no reason to believe it will

:26:47. > :26:48.not be available. He is picking interesting subject for debate which

:26:49. > :26:55.will command great attention, and I think particularly the debate on dog

:26:56. > :26:59.meat happening as it is. It is a sign of how much concerned there is

:27:00. > :27:04.across the House about the welfare of dogs. Also the fact this is a

:27:05. > :27:09.trade that most people in this country do not support at all.

:27:10. > :27:17.Steve eco. Communications this week seemed to suggest some members of

:27:18. > :27:24.the public might have even confused about the finance will weave aborted

:27:25. > :27:29.on on Monday. Could we have a statement from the reader that makes

:27:30. > :27:34.clear what the true position is and can we also understand from him what

:27:35. > :27:43.keep hands to do to counter the occasional misrepresentation of

:27:44. > :27:46.business of this House? - voted on. There is no clarification of the

:27:47. > :27:51.nature of a division on the website. I have listened to colleagues and do

:27:52. > :27:58.intend to write to that website asking them to write some degree of

:27:59. > :28:03.explanation on issues of this kind. Given this was a debate about and

:28:04. > :28:09.civil, not substance, it is not possible under the current treaty

:28:10. > :28:15.arrangements for this House to cut VAT to zero. That decision had to be

:28:16. > :28:22.taken in Brussels. There is strong interest in securing change. It is

:28:23. > :28:27.utterly unacceptable to have a situation where party groups are

:28:28. > :28:32.misrepresenting the vote as a 0 rate for tampons, it is completely

:28:33. > :28:42.unacceptable. There should be a 0 rate for a product that is clearly

:28:43. > :28:56.not a luxury. The minister gave a commitment he would raise that has

:28:57. > :29:02.in Euro and he has done so. The Cannes of the House has promised to

:29:03. > :29:12.negotiate at European level to achieve a 0 rate of the 80 on

:29:13. > :29:17.women's products. This should go alongside the court demands in the

:29:18. > :29:21.forthcoming Wii negotiation. Women's rights are not a

:29:22. > :29:27.second-class issue, can he confirm that? Women's rights will never be a

:29:28. > :29:34.second-class issue. The party in power opposite for 13 years and

:29:35. > :29:40.never secured anything of this sort. Since the debate on Tuesday we have

:29:41. > :29:47.already seen the vice chairman of the mission say this is an issue

:29:48. > :29:51.that are willing to consider. We are taking a step in the right

:29:52. > :29:57.direction. If a minister gives a commitment to this has the will do

:29:58. > :30:05.so, they will find it through. Devolution is something we all

:30:06. > :30:12.expire to and my county in Somerset wish to embrace revolution. We wish

:30:13. > :30:15.to embrace it so that the money follows the devolution coming from

:30:16. > :30:21.the centre which is fantastic, we want to do it. In this House can be

:30:22. > :30:24.debate this so there is a clear message going out to district and

:30:25. > :30:30.unity is for how they can get involved in maximising their return

:30:31. > :30:34.for taxpayers? This is what the government is seeking to do and

:30:35. > :30:38.there will be no one size fits all for different settlements in

:30:39. > :30:42.different parts of the country, it depends on the circumstances and

:30:43. > :30:48.different geography and nature of the economy. I would encourage my

:30:49. > :30:52.honourable men to make this point to other ministers. It is a great

:30:53. > :30:55.opportunity for counties like Somerset to be involved in

:30:56. > :31:02.defamation to give them greater control over matters that affect

:31:03. > :31:06.their area. There is a real opportunity for local authorities

:31:07. > :31:12.and local communities. Given the difficult financial circumstances

:31:13. > :31:17.that the NHS finds itself in, is it not time for a debate on a national

:31:18. > :31:28.tariff for the treatment of IVF given that CCG 's are paying fees as

:31:29. > :31:35.varied as ?2500 to ?6,000 per cycle? We have a choice in the NHS, we can

:31:36. > :31:39.either devolved responsibilities to local lactation is keep everything

:31:40. > :31:46.at the centre. The moment we start to say we do not like different

:31:47. > :31:51.areas where different CCG 's make different decisions we start to be

:31:52. > :31:58.centralised again. I want decisions taken by local doctors. I would eat

:31:59. > :32:03.reluctant to reverse that. With my honourable friend consider having a

:32:04. > :32:07.debate on the future of the House of lords in the near future purely and

:32:08. > :32:11.simply because of the events of this week and also I have been doing some

:32:12. > :32:16.work and had a successful debate in West and start all on a particular

:32:17. > :32:22.oppose all that was met and welcomed on all sides of the House. Part

:32:23. > :32:27.Westminster Hall. I have no doubt be will have such a debate in future

:32:28. > :32:31.but can I encourage him to talk to Lord Strathclyde as well as he

:32:32. > :32:36.dubbed his review? The scope of the review will be out shortly but I

:32:37. > :32:40.suggest he takes any ideas for change to the noble lord who will

:32:41. > :32:48.wish to hear the views of people in this House? The approach of another

:32:49. > :32:51.Parliamentary recess and no indication whatsoever that the

:32:52. > :32:56.government intends to seek a mandate for military intervention in Syria.

:32:57. > :33:01.Isn't it he can play obviously there is no appetite across this chamber

:33:02. > :33:06.for a second goal through military venture. Can we look at the

:33:07. > :33:12.financial initiatives which might actually contribute to bringing

:33:13. > :33:17.peace and stability to that country? I would simply say to the right

:33:18. > :33:21.honourable gentleman, there will be no statement or debate about

:33:22. > :33:26.military intervention in Syria unless we have an intention to

:33:27. > :33:28.intervene voluntarily in Syria. The reason we do not have another

:33:29. > :33:34.statement about that is because no decision has been taken to intervene

:33:35. > :33:39.militarily in Syria and should that happen we will come to this House

:33:40. > :33:44.and discuss it fully. We have debated this extensively in we said

:33:45. > :33:49.weeks, the Foreign Secretary was before this House regularly. They

:33:50. > :33:52.will be plenty opportunities to debate what is an difficult

:33:53. > :33:58.situation, something we all of us wish to see the resolution but it is

:33:59. > :34:03.difficult to see a path to that resolution given how complex the

:34:04. > :34:12.situation is. I feel sure he reader of the House is a Downton at the fan

:34:13. > :34:18.and will have been as alarmed as me by what happened two weeks ago.

:34:19. > :34:25.Fortunately Lord Grantham is recovering well what it is pointed

:34:26. > :34:28.out that survival from upper gastrointestinal bleeding in this

:34:29. > :34:33.country lags behind those countries with which we could reasonably be

:34:34. > :34:38.compared. I wonder if we could have a debate on how we could configure

:34:39. > :34:42.endoscopy services in this country to bring us up among the best in

:34:43. > :34:49.Europe rather than the worst? She makes a very important point in his

:34:50. > :34:55.customer Blake light-hearted but also serious weight. I did not see

:34:56. > :35:00.the particular scene in Downton Abbey but I believe it was

:35:01. > :35:05.eye-catching to say the least comment he makes today I think are

:35:06. > :35:12.important ones and I will make sure they are forwarded to my colleagues

:35:13. > :35:18.in the Department of Health. My honourable friend from the front

:35:19. > :35:23.bench quite rightly lead on the issue of Fifa which he described as

:35:24. > :35:26.a sink of corruption but football is still the beautiful game and will be

:35:27. > :35:34.readers of the House on behalf of the government join me in paying

:35:35. > :35:38.tribute to a happy birthday to a former Derbyshire player who was the

:35:39. > :35:45.first black professional footballer in the world. We are very proud of

:35:46. > :35:52.him. Years and adopted son of Darlington and will be Cannes what

:35:53. > :35:59.the House join me with say happy birthday to him? The beautiful game

:36:00. > :36:05.is tarnished because of the penalty shoot out at all Trafford last

:36:06. > :36:09.night. I will join her and also pay tribute to all of the black leaders

:36:10. > :36:11.Huebner Pathfinders in the game and opened it up to evil generation of

:36:12. > :36:17.young people. I would like to see young people. I would like to see

:36:18. > :36:22.more black coaches in this country as well and I think that should be a

:36:23. > :36:28.minority for the game. I congratulate him for all he has done

:36:29. > :36:33.to contribute to the sport. My hard-working constituents who use

:36:34. > :36:39.Kingston and Surbiton station 's art forced to pay for zone six tickets

:36:40. > :36:43.when logic and fairness dictates they should be in zone five. 26

:36:44. > :36:48.stations are in zone five yet further from their London terminus.

:36:49. > :36:52.I know there are other reasoning campaigns in London yet houses

:36:53. > :36:59.certainly the most compelling. We make time for a debate on the zoning

:37:00. > :37:06.of stations in London? I would not go as far to say... He may be the

:37:07. > :37:09.most campaigning campaign in London but the campaign to get Epsom in

:37:10. > :37:15.zone six which is outside London may be a great important. There are

:37:16. > :37:21.zoning concerns and I have drawn this to the Department for Transport

:37:22. > :37:25.was my attention. I hope we can make regressing what we are doing and our

:37:26. > :37:33.constituents can see that. It is something I know people in still are

:37:34. > :37:38.looking forward to him succeeding in due course in. A cross-party support

:37:39. > :37:42.for a series of appeals. Open up family courts is something a

:37:43. > :37:48.succession of governments have promised to reform. Will there be a

:37:49. > :37:52.debate on how we can break open the cartels that surround the family

:37:53. > :37:57.courts system? Having been Secretary Of State for just as I am aware of

:37:58. > :38:02.this and sympathetic. We have two be careful there are some deeply

:38:03. > :38:05.distressing stories take place within the family courts and we must

:38:06. > :38:12.not open them up in a way that exposes family heartache to the

:38:13. > :38:18.tabloid media. He is right to say there is no reason for the agree of

:38:19. > :38:23.closed environment that exists around those family courts. I know

:38:24. > :38:27.this is a matter of concern to my colleague the Secretary Of State

:38:28. > :38:32.today. He will be here again on Tuesday and I would encourage him to

:38:33. > :38:38.re-raised this point. As my right honourable friend knows, I am

:38:39. > :38:43.running a campaign to save the hedgehog. Will my right honourable

:38:44. > :38:46.friend 's urge every member and right on rubble member to ensure

:38:47. > :38:54.there are safety measures in place within one fires next Thursday which

:38:55. > :38:57.is Guy Fawkes night? Thank you. I share his concern about the

:38:58. > :39:04.hedgehog. We have seen a really distressing fall in our hedgehog

:39:05. > :39:07.population in the last few decades. When I was a child you would find

:39:08. > :39:13.one in every garden, it will would feed them outside the door and it

:39:14. > :39:17.now does not happen to any degree like it used to. I would say to

:39:18. > :39:22.members on all sides of the House and anyone listening to this debate,

:39:23. > :39:27.bonfire night is a period of great danger to hedgehogs. If you drive

:39:28. > :39:33.around the country you will already see large piles of wood setup. It is

:39:34. > :39:38.all too common that a hedgehog finds refuge in those bonfires in the next

:39:39. > :39:42.few days. I would ask anyone to double-check before they like them

:39:43. > :39:48.to make sure there is not a hedgehog nesting inside, we cannot afford to

:39:49. > :39:53.lose any more. Young people are being killed on our streets.

:39:54. > :39:59.Tragically, in my constituency, there have been two youth deaths in

:40:00. > :40:05.as many months. This is not isolated. A boy stabbed to death in

:40:06. > :40:12.Aberdeen, shooting in Hackney, Alford, even machine-gun fire in

:40:13. > :40:14.Willesden. This had to stop. With the government continuing to cut

:40:15. > :40:19.front line services, young people are turning to crime and violence in

:40:20. > :40:24.bigger and bigger numbers. Is it not time to call an urgent debate

:40:25. > :40:30.looking at how all parties can work together to stop the rise of youth

:40:31. > :40:36.violence? Mr Speaker, firstly, let us be clear, knife crime is a blight

:40:37. > :40:43.on our society as our knife murders and I would endorse the comments

:40:44. > :40:46.made earlier about the tragic events in Aberdeen yesterday. They are

:40:47. > :40:51.fortunately rare in this country that makes them even more shocking

:40:52. > :40:54.when they do happen. I send my condolences and good wishes not only

:40:55. > :40:59.to the family but also those in the school for whom it would have aimed

:41:00. > :41:04.a deeply traumatic experience. On the streets of London any death

:41:05. > :41:07.through knife crime is too much, we have taken measures to toughen the

:41:08. > :41:12.law around carrying knives but it is important to support those

:41:13. > :41:19.organisations that try to take young people away from crime and carrying

:41:20. > :41:26.by a couple who set it up after the by a couple who set it up after the

:41:27. > :41:30.death of their son. The number of young people entering the criminal

:41:31. > :41:34.justice system for the first time is balding and has continued to fall

:41:35. > :41:38.for a number of years. That is a great step forward. The challenge of

:41:39. > :41:43.the offending is a good news story that fewer people are entering the

:41:44. > :41:51.justice system for the first time, long may that continue.

:41:52. > :41:55.British farmers who successfully applied for environmental

:41:56. > :41:59.improvement grants are being told that unless they put up all boards

:42:00. > :42:13.indicating the money came from the EU, they could lose part or all of

:42:14. > :42:33.and net contributors to the EU, and net contributors to the EU,

:42:34. > :42:33.isn't it akin to me taking my money from my bank to do a home

:42:34. > :42:34.improvement, and putting up a billboard saying, thank

:42:35. > :42:34.Barclays? Could we have a statement Barclays? Could we have a

:42:35. > :42:34.from an agricultural Minister saying from an agricultural Minister saying

:42:35. > :42:35.the British countryside by this the British countryside by this

:42:36. > :42:38.propaganda? The countryside here is around the most -- among the most

:42:39. > :42:44.beautiful anywhere in the world. I have some sympathy with him, and I

:42:45. > :42:50.do not want to see anything detracting from its natural beauty

:42:51. > :42:55.full stop DEFRA questions are next Thursday, so he can put it to him

:42:56. > :43:02.directly. But keep the countryside pure and natural. Will the

:43:03. > :43:08.government make a statement on the situation of employees pensions and

:43:09. > :43:18.the Commonwealth War Graves Commission? He will not allow them

:43:19. > :43:24.to make a decision on closing... Does he agree that staff working

:43:25. > :43:28.harder than ever due to the centenary commemorations at cutting

:43:29. > :43:35.committee staff pensions while the Director-General gets a 50% pay rise

:43:36. > :43:40.is utterly inappropriate? I understand the point he is making. A

:43:41. > :43:48.range of organisations have had to make decisions about final salary

:43:49. > :43:52.pensions. I will make sure they concerns he has raised will be

:43:53. > :44:03.passed on to my ministerial colleagues. Following the comments

:44:04. > :44:09.from the honourable member for Perth and your excellent article this week

:44:10. > :44:31.Mr, Mr Speaker, will he arrange for a debate on whether this House

:44:32. > :44:39.should continue to have a conference recess, or whether the

:44:40. > :44:39.party should sort themselves out and party should sort themselves out and

:44:40. > :44:40.arrange their confidence at the arrange their confidence at the

:44:41. > :44:40.weekend, like the SNP do. We would be able to work out which MPs are

:44:41. > :44:41.able to do the job in their -- their able to do the job in their -- their

:44:42. > :44:42.job in this House and hold the government to account. There is

:44:43. > :44:44.growing interest in this area. Particularly given the fact that

:44:45. > :44:47.there are perhaps fewer Liberal Democrats than there used to be for

:44:48. > :44:50.the confidence week. This has been raised through the usual channels.

:44:51. > :44:55.Confidence became take place some years in advance. This is something

:44:56. > :45:04.that needs to be dealt with carefully. I am pleased to hear

:45:05. > :45:09.there will be a debate on policing, but I am concerned at the lack of

:45:10. > :45:13.reality in the Leader of the House's responses on police

:45:14. > :45:20.150 plus uniformed presence from the 150 plus uniformed presence from the

:45:21. > :45:23.street and seen a 22% increase in violent crime in the last year. It

:45:24. > :45:28.is a connection between these things. Will the Leader of the House

:45:29. > :45:32.ensure that when the government come to this House to pretend there --

:45:33. > :45:46.present the debate on policing, that they face the facts as we do in our

:45:47. > :45:48.communities? I can only reactivate that the crime survey shows that

:45:49. > :45:52.notwithstanding some of the difficult challenges the police

:45:53. > :45:57.force has had to face up to, crime has continued to fall. There is

:45:58. > :46:04.scope for police officers and police forces to deliver new ways of

:46:05. > :46:08.working, bringing down cost without affecting front line support to the

:46:09. > :46:16.community 's. Labour run Kirklees Council have written off ?850,000 in

:46:17. > :46:20.section 106 cash which was allocated to improve local infrastructure by

:46:21. > :46:25.house-builders and developers. Can be debate how appalling situations

:46:26. > :46:30.like this is seeing local communities lose confidence in

:46:31. > :46:37.planning opportunities? I am aware of the issue. Begs questions about

:46:38. > :46:41.credit control and bringing money when it is due. Local authorities

:46:42. > :46:48.have the power to set timelines even to get money in advance for the

:46:49. > :46:52.payments they receive. Can I suggest to him, it is a matter of concern,

:46:53. > :46:56.that he raises this with the department concerned, perhaps

:46:57. > :47:03.through an adjournment debate or the next time they are in this House for

:47:04. > :47:06.questions? Can he share his current understanding of when legislation

:47:07. > :47:12.regarding the Stormont House regarding the Stormont House

:47:13. > :47:16.agreement may be brought forward? With the government continue a draft

:47:17. > :47:19.committee from both houses, dealing committee from both houses, dealing

:47:20. > :47:23.with the sensitive issue of legacy, which there has not been due

:47:24. > :47:27.consultation with victims for a consultation with victims for a

:47:28. > :47:33.variety of reasons and excuses, and this Parliament has been asked to

:47:34. > :47:39.legislate in lieu of the assembly. With the government give that period

:47:40. > :47:41.of special legislative scrutiny? I will discuss that with the Secretary

:47:42. > :47:46.of State. We have been involved in discussions with all parties in

:47:47. > :47:54.Northern Ireland, and those are continuing. We will bring it to this

:47:55. > :47:57.House as soon as we can. But I will make the Secretary of State of the

:47:58. > :48:04.issue he has raised. I was delighted to hear that others it will be

:48:05. > :48:10.taking place on the 12th to 14th of November, and there will be an

:48:11. > :48:13.opportunity for Parliament to receive him properly. That takes

:48:14. > :48:18.place between the November recess of this place and during Hindu New

:48:19. > :48:26.Year. Can I take the opportunity to invite the Leader of the House to

:48:27. > :48:30.wish a happy, peaceful and prosperous New Year, but equally can

:48:31. > :48:30.we have a statement as to the trade Guilds and educational arrangements

:48:31. > :48:40.and other arrangement is taking and other arrangement is taking

:48:41. > :48:41.place during that visit? I echo the happy New Year wishes he has made

:48:42. > :48:49.reference to, and I hope everyone reference to, and I hope everyone

:48:50. > :48:56.has an enjoyable, relaxing, successful set of New Year festival

:48:57. > :48:59.'s. No doubt we will all wish you, Mr Speaker, and I will make

:49:00. > :49:05.House aware of the details of the House aware of the details of the

:49:06. > :49:14.visit shortly. India is one of the biggest allies and it is a great

:49:15. > :49:22.democracy. This is a great opportunity. We were guests last

:49:23. > :49:24.night for the club the London Tigers, a sports club which does

:49:25. > :49:27.amazing work with young people from all different communities, and it

:49:28. > :49:32.would be appropriate to place on record our appreciation for the

:49:33. > :49:35.call for the debate on families who call for the debate on families who

:49:36. > :49:43.have autism in the family? I'm sure have autism in the family? I'm sure

:49:44. > :49:48.recent news of more diversity in the recent news of more diversity in the

:49:49. > :49:50.boardroom, it is welcome but needs boardroom, it is welcome but needs

:49:51. > :49:58.to go further. Could we have an early debate on diversity, and

:49:59. > :50:00.shouldn't this House be an exemplar? If you look at the photograph in the

:50:01. > :50:15.corridor, it has 64 photographs of corridor, it has 64 photographs of

:50:16. > :50:23.people who run the House at the senior level. Everyone is white and

:50:24. > :50:32.absolutely agree, and I would say absolutely agree, and I would say

:50:33. > :50:36.about the photographs out the back, about the photographs out the back,

:50:37. > :50:37.we have made great progress over the we have made great progress over the

:50:38. > :50:37.like in 2001 when I was elected, and like in 2001 when I was elected, and

:50:38. > :50:38.what it looks like today, there is a what it looks like today, there is a

:50:39. > :50:47.continue this and encourage the continue this and encourage the

:50:48. > :50:51.recruitment process. I want a society that is reflected in this

:50:52. > :50:58.House, and it has two reflect the society outside in all aspects of

:50:59. > :51:03.its working. The plans for the station in Torbay, the first one for

:51:04. > :51:09.therefore can we have a statement on therefore can we have a statement on

:51:10. > :51:14.when the next tranche of station funding will be available to bid for

:51:15. > :51:16.the complete this project? Unfortunately we have just had

:51:17. > :51:21.transport questions, so he will have to wait before the Secretary of

:51:22. > :51:28.State is back again, but his comments will have been noted. But

:51:29. > :51:32.if you look around this country, 20 years after the privatisation of

:51:33. > :51:35.railways, we have new railway lines opening, the start of a new service

:51:36. > :51:42.from Oxford to London, something that would never have happened in

:51:43. > :51:44.the days of British Rail. We have a party opposite who think we would be

:51:45. > :51:50.better off renationalising everything. It would be disastrous.

:51:51. > :51:58.The way we have it now, we are seeing innovations and long may that

:51:59. > :52:03.continue. Last week the Prime Minister said he did not want anyone

:52:04. > :52:07.relying on food banks, but this week the Work and Pensions Secretary told

:52:08. > :52:12.the select committee that he planned to station job advisers and food

:52:13. > :52:19.banks. Is it right that extreme food poverty should become an accepted

:52:20. > :52:27.element of GWP National planning? Could we have a debate on this? She

:52:28. > :52:31.has got this plain wrong. If we have people who are in need of food

:52:32. > :52:35.banks, and I would remind her that we have a lower use of food banks in

:52:36. > :52:38.this country than in countries like Germany, so it is simply not true

:52:39. > :52:44.-- link it to public policy. That we -- link it to public policy. That we

:52:45. > :52:52.should be helping these people into work and out of poverty. Making sure

:52:53. > :52:58.the Jobcentre is aware of what is going on in food banks seem

:52:59. > :53:04.sensible. It was an honour to present certificates recently to

:53:05. > :53:09.some of the 1500 graduates of the National Citizen Service scheme.

:53:10. > :53:12.real government success story and real government success story and

:53:13. > :53:17.will he allow time for a debate on how we can roll out this to more

:53:18. > :53:24.people every year? This has been a huge success story, this is one of

:53:25. > :53:29.the things that will have the most lasting impact on the country. It is

:53:30. > :53:33.growing and developing and proving a great success. It is changing the

:53:34. > :53:37.lives of young people in different parts of the countries, bringing

:53:38. > :53:39.together people from different backgrounds in a way that can only

:53:40. > :53:47.be positive for the future. Long may it continue. The shadow leader of

:53:48. > :53:51.the House was right to raise the ministerial code. Could we have an

:53:52. > :54:02.urgent statement on who made the decision on changing the code, the

:54:03. > :54:06.reasons for doing so? The honour of the ministerial code is the Prime

:54:07. > :54:15.Minister, so there will be plenty opportunities for the honourable

:54:16. > :54:18.lady to ask. On page 29 of the day's order paper there is a motion

:54:19. > :54:24.about the UK dedication to the alimentary assembly of the Council

:54:25. > :54:29.of Europe. It goes on to page 30 because it is signed by 58 members

:54:30. > :54:31.of this House from all the major political parties. It commends the

:54:32. > :54:42.work of the honourable member work of the honourable member

:54:43. > :54:47.Christchurch, his years there, and I wonder if the Leader of the House

:54:48. > :54:53.but put it on the order paper next but put it on the order paper next

:54:54. > :54:56.week. There is not a business of the House committee, so we're relying on

:54:57. > :55:04.the government to bring this motion forward. Would he bring this

:55:05. > :55:12.forward? I have spotted the degree of support for this motion. I am

:55:13. > :55:15.aware of the desire to debate it. What I would say is that there is

:55:16. > :55:20.quite a lot of time allocated through backbench business committee

:55:21. > :55:24.to debate in this House. He will return to the issue shortly, but

:55:25. > :55:33.there is a simple allocation available to debate this. The chair

:55:34. > :55:41.is sitting over there. The Minister may be aware of the case of 26 you

:55:42. > :55:44.will transmit and who been sentenced to serve her prison sentence in a

:55:45. > :55:58.men's prison. The good news I heard today is that she is to be

:55:59. > :56:02.transferred to a women's prison. -- a 26-year-old trans-women.

:56:03. > :56:09.in detail of this tend to be out in detail of this tend to be out

:56:10. > :56:13.with the metal ministers, but the Ministry of Justice will always want

:56:14. > :56:17.decisions of this nature to be taken sensitively and carefully. There are

:56:18. > :56:27.questions for the House on Tuesday, and they will listen to her concerns

:56:28. > :56:36.then. Can we have a debate on how to tackle cyber crime? I have received

:56:37. > :56:52.complaints from constituents in the complaints from constituents in the

:56:53. > :56:59.past, and there is another report in the local newspaper today, one of my

:57:00. > :57:02.convincing and genuine looking convincing and genuine looking

:57:03. > :57:02.e-mail purporting to come from a high street bank asking for

:57:03. > :57:11.details which could lead to people details which could lead to people

:57:12. > :57:11.number of quite worrying cases number of quite worrying cases

:57:12. > :57:11.highlighted in recent weeks and highlighted in recent weeks and

:57:12. > :57:13.months of people losing large chunks of life savings to some

:57:14. > :57:16.complex and sophisticated scams. The complex and sophisticated scams. The

:57:17. > :57:26.message we should give out is to be very careful. This should send

:57:27. > :57:28.messages to the people we represent that they are criminal groups out

:57:29. > :57:34.there who are trying to rip you off there who are trying to rip you off

:57:35. > :57:36.all of the time. I keep saying to my honourable friend, keep bringing up

:57:37. > :57:40.I hear the usual chuntering from a I hear the usual chuntering from a

:57:41. > :57:41.sedentary position from the shadow sedentary position from the shadow

:57:42. > :57:46.leader. This is a really serious leader. This is a really serious

:57:47. > :58:06.issue. On television this week there was a woman who had been swindled

:58:07. > :58:07.for ?35,000 by a gang who persuaded her to go to the bank and transfer

:58:08. > :58:14.her money to a different account. It is not a laughing matter. Does the

:58:15. > :58:17.concern being expressed in concern being expressed in

:58:18. > :58:20.Birmingham and by the Birmingham Post and mail over the threat

:58:21. > :58:25.Freedom of Information and will he Freedom of Information and will he

:58:26. > :58:27.agree to an urgent debate on what is a threat to the cornerstone of our

:58:28. > :58:37.democracy? The irony is that the person who

:58:38. > :58:42.said they regretted the Freedom of Information Act most was Jack Straw

:58:43. > :58:47.who introduced it and looked upon it as one of the things he got wrong.

:58:48. > :58:50.The Freedom of Information Act is something this government is

:58:51. > :58:57.committed to. We want to make sure it works fairly and cannot be

:58:58. > :59:00.misused but it is misused by people who use it as EV search tool to

:59:01. > :59:06.generate stories for the media. It is a legitimate tool for those who

:59:07. > :59:10.understand how this government has taken decisions. It is not the

:59:11. > :59:17.intention of this government to change that. I know from my

:59:18. > :59:21.family's on experience just how devastating pancreatic cancer can be

:59:22. > :59:28.and whether November being pancreatic awareness month can we

:59:29. > :59:31.see what is being done to help those suffering from this disease? My

:59:32. > :59:37.honourable friend makes an important point and of course all forms of

:59:38. > :59:39.cancer, particularly pancreatic cancer, are deeply distressing for

:59:40. > :59:45.the families of those involved and those who suffered from the

:59:46. > :59:49.different varieties of cancer. One of the things that is encouraging at

:59:50. > :59:53.the moment is that we really seemed to be making some significant steps

:59:54. > :59:58.forward in treatment and research for treatment in future. One of the

:59:59. > :00:01.things I am pleased we have done as the government is not withstanding

:00:02. > :00:07.the financial pressures we face. We have continued to keep up our

:00:08. > :00:10.budgets going into the search which open up a better future for those

:00:11. > :00:17.who are sufferers and I hope that what continues. Since the session

:00:18. > :00:23.started this morning welcome news has emerged from China that they are

:00:24. > :00:28.to end their one child policy. Will the leader of the house for a debate

:00:29. > :00:33.on the government's to child policy with particular reference to the

:00:34. > :00:39.Greek clause? The boot them please fill details and I am a wee of the

:00:40. > :00:44.issue she has raised and the fact she has continued to make this

:00:45. > :00:52.concern will be conveyed to my colleagues. -- rape clause.

:00:53. > :01:01.Anti-Muslim rape right -- anti-Muslim hate crime will be

:01:02. > :01:04.recorded separately. Can we therefore have a debate on heat

:01:05. > :01:12.crime in all of its forms and what we can do to eradicate this from our

:01:13. > :01:15.society? Mr Speaker, heat crime in any form is unacceptable. I am very

:01:16. > :01:20.much aware that although we have seen he's beat of anti-Semitic

:01:21. > :01:24.attacks in recent months the also see in this country regularly

:01:25. > :01:29.attacks on mosques and Muslims. The steps the government are taking is

:01:30. > :01:35.right. We should not tolerate heat crime against any of our communities

:01:36. > :01:42.in this country. We should be dealt with with the full force of the law

:01:43. > :01:46.wherever that occurs. This House should remind us of obligations in

:01:47. > :01:52.that direction. Can we have the debate on defence attunement and

:01:53. > :02:02.buying British? Why are the three new royal navy ships and the 500

:02:03. > :02:05.last armed vehicles from the army not been built with British Steel?

:02:06. > :02:10.On occasions when the Lizzie specialist metal requirement we have

:02:11. > :02:14.two source the specialist metal from wherever it comes from. 90s percent

:02:15. > :02:21.of the steel being put into Crossrail is coming from British

:02:22. > :02:26.sources. It is disappointing in Scotland the Scottish Government has

:02:27. > :02:30.not done the same. The steel going into our aircraft carriers is also

:02:31. > :02:34.British Steel. The question I would ask him, he talks about defence

:02:35. > :02:39.procurement and the question I would ask about defence procurement and

:02:40. > :02:44.British jobs, if he is so concerned about the use of British Steel and

:02:45. > :02:49.jobs in Britain, why does his party now support a policy that would

:02:50. > :02:56.scrap the plans for Trident submarines to be built in Barrow in

:02:57. > :03:03.Furness? When can we debate the convention that serving time

:03:04. > :03:08.ministers are not invited to give evidence to select committees? There

:03:09. > :03:11.is compelling evidence now that three prime ministers were

:03:12. > :03:18.unwittingly but directly involved in an enterprise that cost the

:03:19. > :03:23.taxpayers many millions of pounds. Isn't it important, too, that we

:03:24. > :03:40.understand why three prime ministers were infatuated by the delusional

:03:41. > :03:45.fraudsters of Kicks Company dinar two points to make. Everyone on both

:03:46. > :03:52.sides of the House are concerned about what happened with Kicks

:03:53. > :04:08.Company understanding what went wrong in that charity was not the

:04:09. > :04:18.fault of some people involved in it. In my view the Beagle he is looking

:04:19. > :04:23.for is already in existence. Three years ago the caravan manufacturers

:04:24. > :04:30.of Hull had to fight off the caravan tax that would like their industry.

:04:31. > :04:35.Now the government is buying steel from abroad and I wonder if it is

:04:36. > :04:37.time we had a debate about an industrial policy for our country

:04:38. > :04:45.and not every other country in the world? Let me tell her about

:04:46. > :04:50.industrial policy. The industrial policy which leads to the dramatic

:04:51. > :04:56.drop in level feel I boot in the UK, and industrial policy that leads

:04:57. > :05:01.to the near halving of manufacturing is a policy we had under the last

:05:02. > :05:04.Labour government. We have been working to restore manufacturing and

:05:05. > :05:09.steel development and production is now at the same level or slightly

:05:10. > :05:14.higher than when he took office. Just on occasions, they are the

:05:15. > :05:21.opposition and can ask questions without remembering there on record

:05:22. > :05:28.in government. When it came to manufacturing in this country they

:05:29. > :05:31.made a right royal mess up. Concern about the illegal wildlife trade is

:05:32. > :05:35.growing and the Duke of Cambridge spoke out about this last week.

:05:36. > :05:40.Responsibility in government lies between DEFRA, the Commonwealth and

:05:41. > :05:44.government office. Can we look at how we can better coordinate a UK

:05:45. > :05:52.Government response to end this vile trade? I wholeheartedly agree with

:05:53. > :05:55.him. To see a return to the poaching of elephants in southern Africa is

:05:56. > :06:01.something I find completely distressing. The threat facing the

:06:02. > :06:05.Rhino I find profoundly distressing. I would commend Prince Harry and

:06:06. > :06:10.Prince William for the work they have done on this over the years. I

:06:11. > :06:17.commend everyone in this House who works to work on this challenge.

:06:18. > :06:24.People should be able to CDs great animals in the wild and not look at

:06:25. > :06:30.on the history books about their death. The department that has the

:06:31. > :06:34.biggest role in all of this it is really ought Porto we do everything

:06:35. > :06:43.we can to stem what is a vile trade. -- see these great animals.

:06:44. > :06:47.Gentry and contractor is a debilitating disease of the hands

:06:48. > :06:57.caused by manual Labour. The industrial injuries advisory Council

:06:58. > :07:01.made recommendations to the DWP last year as to why they should make this

:07:02. > :07:06.a prescribed occupational disease yet there has not been any official

:07:07. > :07:09.announcement. With the leader of the house make a statement about why

:07:10. > :07:15.there has been such a delay which has impacted on many disabled people

:07:16. > :07:20.in the UK? She raises an important issue. I do not know the answer to

:07:21. > :07:23.his question but we will have the DWP minister is here on Monday and I

:07:24. > :07:27.will make sure they are briefed in advance of that so they can give the

:07:28. > :07:34.proper response if he raises it then. Point of order, Mr Alex

:07:35. > :07:38.Salmond. At the same time as business questions it was announced

:07:39. > :07:43.nicer John Chilcott why means of a letter to the tri- Minister that it

:07:44. > :07:48.would be a further nine months before the Iraq enquiry is to be

:07:49. > :07:53.published which will mean it is seven years since it was established

:07:54. > :07:59.and the full 13 years since the war was started. Would it not just be an

:08:00. > :08:09.order but a mark of respect to the 179 families of dead servicemen at

:08:10. > :08:14.the government had come to the House to explore reasons of delay in the

:08:15. > :08:19.enquiry and the possible legal consequences that might fall on

:08:20. > :08:24.certain individuals if that enquiry allocates responsibility for the

:08:25. > :08:32.illegal conflict? Yes, perhaps I should just take the leader of the

:08:33. > :08:36.house. I am not exactly aware of when the letter was sent or received

:08:37. > :08:42.but I am a weird and have long been that this is a matter of very, very

:08:43. > :08:47.elite interest and concern to members right across the House. Part

:08:48. > :08:54.I am aware. If the reader of the House would like to come to the orcs

:08:55. > :08:58.we would be pleased to hear him. Let me see firstly that I share and the

:08:59. > :09:02.government share the right honourable gentleman was my

:09:03. > :09:07.frustration about how long this has taken. They are clearly lessons

:09:08. > :09:11.which need to be learned from this whole process. It is an none of our

:09:12. > :09:19.interests that this has taken so long. We were in opposition at the

:09:20. > :09:22.time so have no investment in delaying this matter. It is out with

:09:23. > :09:26.the control of government. The the control of government. The

:09:27. > :09:31.timetable is entirely in his own hands. In terms of the timing of

:09:32. > :09:37.this, I do not know either the time at which the letter was actually

:09:38. > :09:42.released but it is not my job to P and a letter for Sir John Chilcott

:09:43. > :09:48.before he has announced it himself. I want to hear further observations

:09:49. > :09:55.on this matter. Mr Davies? I think we all agree with the member for

:09:56. > :10:00.Banff and Buchan on this and with the leaders comments. These are many

:10:01. > :10:07.suggestions that it has been delayed right Whitehall not leaving things

:10:08. > :10:10.quickly enough and not providing enough information, by challenging

:10:11. > :10:15.the ability to release information. It would be helpful to the House if

:10:16. > :10:20.you were a statement and frankly this is an insult and the

:10:21. > :10:27.compounding of the grief of the many families who have lost loved ones in

:10:28. > :10:33.that war. I wanted to hear the points of order and will view the

:10:34. > :10:39.honourable gentleman in a moment but the leader of the house is correct

:10:40. > :10:44.in saying macro it is not for him to pre-empt the delivery or publication

:10:45. > :10:48.of letters but unlike of what I do sense is quite a strong feeling

:10:49. > :10:51.across the House, it might be extremely helpful if, when the

:10:52. > :10:58.leader of the houses in full session of the facts he perhaps considers an

:10:59. > :11:01.early short statement on which there would be an opportunity for

:11:02. > :11:07.questioning at the start of next week. I newly put that thought to

:11:08. > :11:16.him now and he has a option to refer to it. -- merrily. I can assure my

:11:17. > :11:20.honourable friend that I have seen no evidence on the half of the

:11:21. > :11:25.government to stall on this. We have been as keen as anyone in this House

:11:26. > :11:30.to see this published. Here is no desire in the government to slow

:11:31. > :11:33.this up. It is outwith our control. I will take the point raised about

:11:34. > :11:44.an early statement. The committee that set up the

:11:45. > :11:47.Chilcott enquiry was the public administration committee under Tony

:11:48. > :11:50.right, and at the time they were misgivings about the form of

:11:51. > :11:56.enquiry, and a suggestion made that it should be run by Parliament

:11:57. > :11:59.directly, an entirely new form of enquiry would have been better if

:12:00. > :12:08.parliamentarians had control of this. Can we have assurance from

:12:09. > :12:12.government, as we have now -- no explanation about what happened in

:12:13. > :12:22.Iraq, and no explanation of the enquiry into the Helmand concession

:12:23. > :12:30.which resulted in 454 lives being lost, and can the government given

:12:31. > :12:34.-- give an assurance that we will not be involved in the four sided

:12:35. > :12:42.war in Syria before these matters will be discussed? Can I see to the

:12:43. > :12:46.honourable gentleman, a statement by government to the House on this

:12:47. > :12:51.matter would afford a real opportunity for him to make his

:12:52. > :12:57.point, not my point -- by point of order to me, back to the Leader of

:12:58. > :13:00.the House. It would perhaps be uncontroversial that had there been

:13:01. > :13:07.a parliamentary committee looking at this matter, it would not have been

:13:08. > :13:13.possible for it to do its work more slowly even if it had made a

:13:14. > :13:18.Herculean effort to do so. I think it is important, on behalf of the

:13:19. > :13:28.House, whether it concerns are perturbed them or not, that Sir John

:13:29. > :13:33.should be aware that there is a very real sense of anger and frustration

:13:34. > :13:39.across the whole House over what seems at this line substantial --

:13:40. > :13:48.substantial disservice as to what has been done. I am grateful for

:13:49. > :13:54.this being raised and four other members underlining the strength of

:13:55. > :14:00.feeling. If he could hold his forces for a moment! Point of order, Diana

:14:01. > :14:03.Johnson. When ministers speak from the dispatch box I know they have to

:14:04. > :14:09.make sure they are factually correct, and I am sorry to raise

:14:10. > :14:15.again a point of order about a factual inaccuracy that has been

:14:16. > :14:18.made by the Leader of the House. In his exchange with one of my

:14:19. > :14:23.honourable friend 's this morning, he said that Labour had done nothing

:14:24. > :14:31.in 13 years to deal with the issue of VAT on sanitary products. This is

:14:32. > :14:47.incorrect. A Treasury minister ensured that VAT was reduced from

:14:48. > :14:49.the top rate to 5% in 2001, and I hope the record can be corrected. I

:14:50. > :14:52.think we should leave the exchange think we should leave the exchange

:14:53. > :14:55.there, but if the leader wishes to reply he can do so. She made her

:14:56. > :14:56.point clearly and it is on the record, and will be in the official

:14:57. > :15:01.report. It is important to say it is not often fear to cut sentences

:15:02. > :15:10.short, because I said on zero rating. We now come to backbench

:15:11. > :15:16.business. The first item is a motion in the name of Mr Greer Graham

:15:17. > :15:22.Allen. -- Mr Graham Allen. This is the first case in which procedures

:15:23. > :15:29.have been invoked, it may be helpful if I explain what is happening. This

:15:30. > :15:34.is an identical motion to that which was debated in Westminster Hall on

:15:35. > :15:42.Wednesday the 14th of October, when the question was put in Westminster

:15:43. > :15:50.Hall, the decision of the question was challenged. As the motion was

:15:51. > :15:55.being brought before this chamber, under standing order number ten,

:15:56. > :16:01.subsection 13, I am now required to put the question on the motion

:16:02. > :16:21.without bait to move formally -- without debate. Formally move the

:16:22. > :16:26.motion under House committee. The question is and the order paper. As

:16:27. > :16:36.many as of that opinion seem-macro three. On the contrary, no. The noes

:16:37. > :16:41.have it. Could you assist me on how we can take this matter forward now

:16:42. > :16:45.that the House has expressed a strong views so that we can all

:16:46. > :16:51.discuss the issue of our House business committee, which was in the

:16:52. > :16:55.Coalition agreement, promised by the then Conservative Leader of the

:16:56. > :17:00.House, and was the remaining outstanding business of the right

:17:01. > :17:04.committee on reforming this chamber. Could you give us some advice on how

:17:05. > :17:06.we can move this forward and actually have a genuine debate on

:17:07. > :17:13.whether we need a House business committee or not? Not for the first

:17:14. > :17:18.time, possibly not for the last, I feel that the honourable gentleman

:17:19. > :17:26.flatters me. He does not require my advice. The honourable gentleman is

:17:27. > :17:37.a sellable constitutionalist -- Sarid

:17:38. > :17:42.Constitutionalist and there are number of devices where this can be

:17:43. > :17:49.debated in this chamber, and he knows that he has a fellow spirit in

:17:50. > :17:52.the honourable gentleman the Member for Wellingborough, and other

:17:53. > :17:57.members. So the matter will come back to this House, and I have a

:17:58. > :18:02.feeling he will want it to come back to this House following what has

:18:03. > :18:10.just taken place, sooner rather than later. The matter cannot be avoided.

:18:11. > :18:14.Point of order. Further to this, it may be useful to know that I had an

:18:15. > :18:20.electronic message shortly before the motion was moved that said

:18:21. > :18:27.government payroll members were instructed not to oppose the

:18:28. > :18:30.creation of a business committee. So maybe the government might bring

:18:31. > :18:44.this forward as a motion put for the House. -- before the House. If the

:18:45. > :18:52.honourable gentleman spoke with his usual sincerity, some people may

:18:53. > :19:08.think he displayed an optimism worthy of. Doctor Pangloss. I had

:19:09. > :19:13.not noticed anyone displaying any great earnestness to stick to its

:19:14. > :19:14.commitment to step the proposals for a House committee. Maybe in this

:19:15. > :19:18.parliament it will have remembered that commitment. Maybe it will act

:19:19. > :19:33.on it of its own volition, and maybe it will be congealed and harangued

:19:34. > :19:37.into doing so. -- cajoled. We now come to the debatable backbench

:19:38. > :19:48.of proposed reforms to tax credits. of proposed reforms to tax credits.

:19:49. > :19:57.I have not selected the amendment. I move the motion. Thank you for

:19:58. > :20:03.calling me and for that ruling. I wish to begin by thanking the

:20:04. > :20:10.backbench committee who not only acted quickly and giving us this

:20:11. > :20:13.debate but also decided we should have the whole day to debate this

:20:14. > :20:23.issue, giving the importance of the matter is we are discussing the many

:20:24. > :20:30.those with the money. Order paper those with the money. Order paper

:20:31. > :20:35.has been signed by a large number of honourable members from all sides of

:20:36. > :20:36.the House. First of all we wish to call upon the government to give us

:20:37. > :20:40.more data, so that we can secondly more data, so that we can secondly

:20:41. > :20:48.consider the impact of the tax credit cuts on the lower paid

:20:49. > :20:54.constituents, and thirdly, given that now there is a debate raging in

:20:55. > :20:58.this House as there is outside, but the House have an opportunity of

:20:59. > :21:03.suggesting means by which the government might mitigate these

:21:04. > :21:07.measures, although the debate has now moved so fast I do not think the

:21:08. > :21:14.Treasury benches thinking merely of matters of mitigation. In this

:21:15. > :21:21.opening contribution, I want to touch three things. First of all to

:21:22. > :21:25.congratulate the House of Lords not in causing a constitutional crisis,

:21:26. > :21:27.but giving the government a well earned opportunity to think twice

:21:28. > :21:32.about its proposals. Secondly I about its proposals. Secondly I

:21:33. > :21:38.would like to outline the data we need in this place to consider how

:21:39. > :21:42.what was the biggest change in the budget is going to impact on our

:21:43. > :21:49.introducing proposals of not near introducing proposals of not near

:21:50. > :21:54.mitigation but of reformat members are putting forward now to the tax

:21:55. > :22:00.credit proposals. First of all the lucky break that has been dealt to

:22:01. > :22:01.the Chancellor. When the Lords rejected the statutory instrument

:22:02. > :22:10.giving the government authority to go ahead with the tax credit

:22:11. > :22:16.changes, I began to pity the young adviser in the Treasury who had

:22:17. > :22:18.thought up this idea of putting in as a statutory instrument rather

:22:19. > :22:24.than in the budget itself. While there may be issues we would

:22:25. > :22:28.disagree with Lloyd George, he did have a certain wisdom in deciding

:22:29. > :22:41.how to protect money resolutions in this House from interference from

:22:42. > :22:43.the other place. The convention growing up before was reaffirmed

:22:44. > :22:47.with legislative force they are that if a budget motion goes from this

:22:48. > :22:51.House, the other place might wish to debated, but they could not

:22:52. > :23:05.young adviser who suggested a young adviser who suggested a

:23:06. > :23:17.wonderful pleas not to debate here on the floor of the House but to

:23:18. > :23:19.committee stage upstairs. Now, as committee stage upstairs. Now, as

:23:20. > :23:20.more honourable members have gone to realise the consequences of the

:23:21. > :23:25.credit changes, I began to think, credit changes, I began to think,

:23:26. > :23:27.well, maybe the official is for promotion. It gives a wonderful

:23:28. > :23:31.cover for the government to engage cover for the government to engage

:23:32. > :23:33.with us here, and with our constituents, on what might best

:23:34. > :23:36.done, both in meeting the done, both in meeting the

:23:37. > :23:43.government's target to reduce the deficit, but also to make sure that

:23:44. > :23:49.disproportionately put on those with disproportionately put on those with

:23:50. > :23:55.the weakest shoulders. It is a huge opportunity that I hope we will see

:23:56. > :24:01.the actual changes. The movement has been made since the budget debate.

:24:02. > :24:11.Secondly, might I make the plea for the data that this House requires so

:24:12. > :24:16.that it can understand what is involved for all our constituents

:24:17. > :24:21.but also particularly those strivers who get up and work, who get -- do

:24:22. > :24:23.some of the least privileged jobs in society, and who governments of

:24:24. > :24:24.successive complexion have found it successive complexion have found

:24:25. > :24:38.good that we encourage rather than good that we encourage rather than

:24:39. > :24:41.is worth remarking, you have to go is worth remarking, you have to go

:24:42. > :24:44.back to Lloyd George's debate to look at the information he provided

:24:45. > :24:49.the House on who would pay for his 1909 budget. The budget in which he

:24:50. > :24:57.enshrined in our contribution -- Constitution that it was in this

:24:58. > :24:59.place and not the other place. He provided far more information than

:25:00. > :25:05.the government provided this year on who would be affected if his

:25:06. > :25:09.budget. I know it was simpler then because he made it plain that

:25:10. > :25:12.landlords would pay for these measures and the budget would not

:25:13. > :25:20.just be distribute to the poor, but those who run in trade unions -- not

:25:21. > :25:26.in trade unions and had no one to protect them. I hope the government

:25:27. > :25:29.will withdraw in that innovation in starving the House of necessary

:25:30. > :25:39.information. What I would like to see from the government is firstly,

:25:40. > :25:44.how do we break down amongst our groups 10% of the income groups, the

:25:45. > :26:01.impact of the 4.5 billion cut in tax credits. There are three big changes

:26:02. > :26:06.the government has wrought in the government statement. It has reduced

:26:07. > :26:27.the deficit from ?460 to next April owing its 380 -- 380 million. The

:26:28. > :26:34.child element is valued at ?200,780 a year, which will be lost. This is

:26:35. > :26:42.obviously affecting different groups in our constituents, and there is a

:26:43. > :26:53.unity across the House that the necessary reduction in the budget

:26:54. > :27:00.deficit should be born on those... We need to look at the measures

:27:01. > :27:11.collectively on each decile group. Also we need to look at the type,

:27:12. > :27:17.and each year up to there to the government, many of us wish to put

:27:18. > :27:22.into the analysis four compensatory measures which the government argues

:27:23. > :27:30.will mitigate if not all, most of those changes.

:27:31. > :27:36.The PM is very one axed in telling the country that eight out of ten

:27:37. > :27:42.people, families, will be better off as the result of this budget. Eight

:27:43. > :27:49.out of ten will be better off but practically all of our constituents

:27:50. > :27:55.who draw tax credits are in the two out of ten that have been made worse

:27:56. > :27:59.off. Hopefully we will see not only the careful analysis of the cuts on

:28:00. > :28:09.individual families but also to make it the rounded and fair analysis to

:28:10. > :28:14.make use of the four elements that are mitigating forces. One is the

:28:15. > :28:20.threshold. When the minister comes to reply maybe he will be able to

:28:21. > :28:25.tell as in fact whether all of those claiming tax credits are covered or

:28:26. > :28:30.is it only something like half? I may not have the opportunity to

:28:31. > :28:36.comment on the Minister to reply later on but I have huge regard for

:28:37. > :28:41.him. I also sympathise for the addition he is in. He is defending a

:28:42. > :28:47.government beef that is actually on the move. If I can quote a president

:28:48. > :28:53.which I think we'll cheer him, those who have been in this race for some

:28:54. > :29:00.time watched Mrs T and John Major, to the statue looked and defend the

:29:01. > :29:05.policy on cold weather payments. She decided the policy was to be changed

:29:06. > :29:09.that afternoon and instructed the Minister to come along and tell the

:29:10. > :29:13.House that what he had been telling them in the morning did not actually

:29:14. > :29:21.fall but much better news was in store. I do hope that when the

:29:22. > :29:26.Chancellor who is now in listening mode is thinking about what changes

:29:27. > :29:29.he will make, that he has a generous spirit also to cover the right

:29:30. > :29:34.honourable gentleman, he will allow the honourable gentleman to make the

:29:35. > :29:43.announcement of what the changes are rather than screw any of the kudos

:29:44. > :29:49.himself. One changes the increase in the tax threshold. Is it true that

:29:50. > :29:52.only half of those who will lose out in the tax credit changes will

:29:53. > :29:59.actually be compensated or partly compensated by the increase in the

:30:00. > :30:02.tax threshold? Secondly is probably the most important measure the

:30:03. > :30:09.government will make in this Parliament on a positive front. That

:30:10. > :30:12.is the very significant increase in child care for all our constituents

:30:13. > :30:19.who have children under five, the number of hours of childcare for the

:30:20. > :30:26.rudest two-year-olds and all three and four-year-olds. Part poorest.

:30:27. > :30:33.Will increase. The minister who will come to reply has probably the most

:30:34. > :30:39.important reef of any minister and takes more responsibility for life

:30:40. > :30:42.chances. If the Minister is serious about how we make sure the life

:30:43. > :30:50.chances of those children born in the poorest households are raised to

:30:51. > :30:53.the level of those in more privileged household, we will be

:30:54. > :30:58.looking very carefully at how that extra expenditure will be spent and

:30:59. > :31:04.looking at how our poorest and youngest constituents get the best

:31:05. > :31:07.deal out of that childcare rather than the worst. The second

:31:08. > :31:11.compensatory factor is the increasing childcare which I think

:31:12. > :31:16.is the most important social measured the government is likely to

:31:17. > :31:20.introduce at this Parliament. Thirdly, following closely on the

:31:21. > :31:32.heels is the increase of the national minimum wage. I am grateful

:31:33. > :31:34.to my right honourable friend who is making a characteristically

:31:35. > :31:39.thoughtful contribution but when he comes to discuss the amelioration of

:31:40. > :31:42.the third element, will he also recognised that many of the four

:31:43. > :31:46.years are actually going further than the schedule for the up left in

:31:47. > :31:49.the national living wage and that will be a massive welcome to many

:31:50. > :31:56.across this country and have a material impact on the four elements

:31:57. > :32:01.he is discussing? Many are and some are not, hence the importance of the

:32:02. > :32:05.Chancellor to make this a statutory requirement. It does show the rule

:32:06. > :32:10.of law when it is used cleverly in that the number of those employers

:32:11. > :32:15.who previously were not interested in introducing a national living

:32:16. > :32:21.wage, when I was corresponding with them, said he would not, have now

:32:22. > :32:29.been among those who have in a sense been very welcome in jumping the gun

:32:30. > :32:34.and actually introducing the Chancellor's national living wage

:32:35. > :32:39.before the period that they must do. Isn't there another problem for

:32:40. > :32:45.another sector of employers, the public sector, a number include my

:32:46. > :32:48.own counsel, they are committed to being the leading wheat but quite

:32:49. > :32:53.clearly they do not know whether the will be extra resources made

:32:54. > :32:57.available to increase the money, the funds they have two p that along

:32:58. > :33:05.with all other public sector employers? There is clearly a matter

:33:06. > :33:09.of resources but also in the analysis that I am arguing for from

:33:10. > :33:15.the Treasury bench today, many local authorities will be paying above

:33:16. > :33:19.this level so that when we are actually looking at what the impact

:33:20. > :33:23.of the national living wage with the, those workers, in a sense, have

:33:24. > :33:29.already got that money in that peep at it. The local authorities will be

:33:30. > :33:34.limited to the amount of increase they can make in the years we are

:33:35. > :33:40.considering. That pay packet. Many workers in the public sector is with

:33:41. > :33:45.not be the beneficiaries of the living wage and the significant

:33:46. > :33:48.increase in the p that they will get will be limited to the requirement

:33:49. > :33:52.the government has laid down and maybe that is a factor the

:33:53. > :34:01.government will use in the analysis we are asking for. Which he also

:34:02. > :34:04.accept that when the Dakar is compiled there should be an

:34:05. > :34:09.indication as to the impact that these changes will have on those who

:34:10. > :34:17.are under 25 and will not be covered out the national living wage?

:34:18. > :34:21.Indeed, the V is for us to have the range of analysis which has

:34:22. > :34:24.traditionally accompanied any budget statement that any member in this

:34:25. > :34:33.House, however long they have served, has come to expect. It is

:34:34. > :34:37.the fourth factor that members of the DWP select committee have

:34:38. > :34:43.emphasised. That is, there may be some wage push as a result of the

:34:44. > :34:49.introduction of a national living wage. Will that also be taken into

:34:50. > :34:54.account in the government analysis? I am slightly sceptical on the

:34:55. > :35:00.extent of that wage push because if one looks, again this is one of the

:35:01. > :35:07.problems of actually being in this House for some time, when I was

:35:08. > :35:11.initiated the low campaign the unit to campaign for a national minimum

:35:12. > :35:18.wage, the trade union edition then was actually to officially was it.

:35:19. > :35:23.On the grounds of opposing it was that there would be a mega- bill as

:35:24. > :35:27.we re-established differentials. If we actually look at the impact of

:35:28. > :35:32.the statutory minimum wage there has been a new huge bunching, there has

:35:33. > :35:41.not been this egg increase in differentials that some people

:35:42. > :35:44.feared or expected. I did we. I can call him my right honourable friend

:35:45. > :35:50.because we have known each other 40 years. Before he leaves the question

:35:51. > :35:54.of data that government provides, because it is an incredibly

:35:55. > :35:59.complicated area there are components that would not normally

:36:00. > :36:03.be provided, one is the national withdrawal rate of any scheme that

:36:04. > :36:06.the government puts into effect. Some spokesman for the government

:36:07. > :36:14.have already said people would work their way out of 30. Some of the

:36:15. > :36:18.effects of this seem like a 93% withdrawal rate which means you

:36:19. > :36:24.cannot work your way out of poverty, which she add that to his list? I

:36:25. > :36:28.would certainly do that. I want to come back to a proposal I initially

:36:29. > :36:33.made, I did not do it because I wanted to be dragged to the state

:36:34. > :36:36.and earned on it, I was anxious to begin a debate and one of the

:36:37. > :36:41.crucial thing is if one is asking the government to change their

:36:42. > :36:46.minds, someone who had made the proposals might change their mind

:36:47. > :36:50.but I will argue that any moment. I think the net withdrawal rate for

:36:51. > :36:56.any proposal is very crucial and given that we have in this House but

:36:57. > :37:01.it intolerable that people should pay more than 45% on their income

:37:02. > :37:07.tax, he would suffer that rate of withdrawal, it is not the bad rate

:37:08. > :37:13.to aim for four Bhullar people when we add income tax, national

:37:14. > :37:17.insurance and withdrawal of tax credits and other benefits. I newly

:37:18. > :37:25.wish to underscore the point that my right honourable friend has actually

:37:26. > :37:30.made. -- merely. I am very grateful, he has been generous. Will he look

:37:31. > :37:36.at the distribution geographically of the effects of these measures

:37:37. > :37:41.given that, as a member for Birkenhead, he will low that they

:37:42. > :37:48.are very few communities with the effects would be very widespread. It

:37:49. > :37:54.will not just be proved people but poorer communities that will be

:37:55. > :37:57.affected? Thank you very much. I note that the Treasury minister who

:37:58. > :38:02.is going to apply also has an interest in improving Treasury the

:38:03. > :38:07.tussle we can understand better tax and Treasury changes. I hope the

:38:08. > :38:14.plea he is making will not fall on deaf ears. I give way. Will he also

:38:15. > :38:17.take into account that we need something that is saleable to the

:38:18. > :38:23.people who are benefiting from tax credits? When we talk about marginal

:38:24. > :38:27.rates of return and thresholds and differentials, this is the sort of

:38:28. > :38:32.language that can completely confused not only the beneficiaries

:38:33. > :38:35.but also employers. Which he make it clear in negotiations with the

:38:36. > :38:40.Treasury that we try to make this saleable and simple and try to keep

:38:41. > :38:45.the concept is simple so that people who genuinely need tax credits can

:38:46. > :38:51.clean them because there is still massive under claiming of tax

:38:52. > :38:56.credits. The is and that very neatly leads me onto what might the

:38:57. > :39:02.proposals reform be? I wish briefly, if I need, to touch on four. The

:39:03. > :39:07.first is to make a plea to the government to recognise just how

:39:08. > :39:11.quickly the whole of this debate is changing and for them to take the

:39:12. > :39:20.advantage of that. In that, I think it is worth rooting on the record

:39:21. > :39:23.that tax credit is here, tax credit payments, as he was emphasising,

:39:24. > :39:30.argue for the long run. If we began this debate back in 2010, there was

:39:31. > :39:36.talk, and use the attic talk, but almost in no time here with the a

:39:37. > :39:42.new benefit, universal benefit, that would sweep up means testing and

:39:43. > :39:49.deliver eight seamless service to our constituents. If one is truthful

:39:50. > :39:55.but gentle about universal credit, it is regressed is very modest. I do

:39:56. > :40:00.not disagree with the Secretary Of State looking back at devious errors

:40:01. > :40:07.of trying to smash the forms through whatever the costs but someone in

:40:08. > :40:13.government must look at how slow the progress of roll-out is and question

:40:14. > :40:18.whether that will ever, ever see the light of day in a full flowering. If

:40:19. > :40:23.that is true, it does raise the question of how my tax credits be

:40:24. > :40:29.reshaped given that it is not for the chop, it is you for the longer

:40:30. > :40:34.term, universal credit is not going to, in the lifetime of this or maybe

:40:35. > :40:40.the next Parliament, make tax credits redundant. I think in the

:40:41. > :40:48.debates that we had begun to have here and certainly with the public,

:40:49. > :40:52.when I was recording a programme for This Morning every time I said a

:40:53. > :40:56.word they ought the public would not understand we had to stop and start

:40:57. > :41:03.filming again, I cannot tell you how long it to! So, we do have our own

:41:04. > :41:12.language which any sense is a shorthand that is not understood by

:41:13. > :41:16.people outside the. -- there. She's beaks with great authority and

:41:17. > :41:20.experience on these matters. If I could suggest to him that one of the

:41:21. > :41:25.very straightforward concepts that all of my constituents do understand

:41:26. > :41:30.is that there is a right minded intention to get rid of taxpayer

:41:31. > :41:37.subsidised poverty pay but in doing so we cannot actually say to people

:41:38. > :41:42.on low pay we are going to impoverish you on that journey. The

:41:43. > :41:47.very simple concept is let's talk about the instruments of doing it

:41:48. > :41:52.but actually it is about getting rid of poverty pay and lifting people up

:41:53. > :41:59.so that at some future date we do not have too rely on subsidy to make

:42:00. > :42:10.it worthwhile going to work? I could not agree more. We have not had a

:42:11. > :42:14.Chancellor who has decided to do is misplaced to take into the welfare

:42:15. > :42:25.system the role that our economy takes. That leads welfare reform

:42:26. > :42:27.into new areas about the new wage productivity, particularly amongst

:42:28. > :42:36.those who are lowest paid, so one can safely accept this and how we

:42:37. > :42:47.take it forward. My first comment hand suggestion

:42:48. > :42:55.stems from the fact that the government introduce a national

:42:56. > :42:58.living wage. When the people who thought of the tax credit got to

:42:59. > :43:05.work, no one ever thought the government would bring it forward.

:43:06. > :43:12.Therefore they incorporated in the system two aspects. One was about

:43:13. > :43:25.how we subsidise and make it a more decent level, and secondly, given

:43:26. > :43:28.the lifestyle and how life takes us, that those periods where every

:43:29. > :43:35.they have children. The tax credit they have children. The tax credit

:43:36. > :43:36.first league in asking the Treasury first league in asking the Treasury

:43:37. > :43:42.bench when it is thinking about what it does in only a few weeks' time

:43:43. > :43:49.and the Autumn Statement, is whether in fact we should not grow up and

:43:50. > :43:57.accept we are going to have a national living wage, and there be

:43:58. > :44:01.two aspects of tax credits which subsidise low wages but also take

:44:02. > :44:07.some responsibility of the costs of children that should be made more

:44:08. > :44:14.clear. There would be more support in the country of tax credit was

:44:15. > :44:14.about the support of children rather than the need to subsidise poverty

:44:15. > :44:32.wages. Give way. Would my honourable wages. Give way. Would my honourable

:44:33. > :44:39.friend clarify this is about tax credits and not child tax credit,

:44:40. > :44:46.which are two different benefits? The Prime Minister seems to

:44:47. > :44:54.misunderstand the difference between them because he said during the

:44:55. > :45:03.would not be touched, but of course, would not be touched, but of course,

:45:04. > :45:11.claw-back, the amount of money you claw-back, the amount of money you

:45:12. > :45:19.the threshold in which you begin to the threshold in which you begin to

:45:20. > :45:19.claw back tax credits and the rate claw back tax credits and the rate

:45:20. > :45:20.income, you are affecting the value income, you are affecting the value

:45:21. > :45:20.of the child tax credit. That I of the child tax credit. That I

:45:21. > :45:23.agree, there are two, and there are questions about the sense of having

:45:24. > :45:31.two benefits serving the same purpose. The second proposal, my

:45:32. > :45:36.guess is many Tory MPs have made privately to the government. I

:45:37. > :45:39.cannot imagine the whips on that side are different from those on the

:45:40. > :45:43.side. And if we had been in government making this proposal, the

:45:44. > :45:52.whips on the side would have been very busy fawning members last

:45:53. > :46:01.weekend to ask what individual and members would tolerate. One message

:46:02. > :46:04.bringing them in next April was not bringing them in next April was not

:46:05. > :46:17.acceptable. That would be one of the proposals. A third and more radical

:46:18. > :46:19.one that again unites backbenchers is whether these changes to tax

:46:20. > :46:27.credit should only apply to new claimants. It is one of the problems

:46:28. > :46:33.we have of her popularity in shoving around tax payers money without

:46:34. > :46:40.the music stops and people might the music stops and people might

:46:41. > :46:42.think there was not actually think there was not actually

:46:43. > :46:48.affordable, but in the meantime our constituents have responded to the

:46:49. > :46:53.very clear messages in forms of incentives and tax credits to what

:46:54. > :47:01.we wish them to do. And I think there is a sense, I have noticed it

:47:02. > :47:06.publicly and privately is it is a different ball to say there a new

:47:07. > :47:11.contract for people not claiming tax credits may. It is a totally

:47:12. > :47:17.different ball game to actually see you have responded, you have done

:47:18. > :47:30.all expected you to do, but I'm going to clobber you know for doing

:47:31. > :47:39.so. He's absolutely correct that you cannot do the people change the

:47:40. > :47:43.I also want to say that I have made I also want to say that I have made

:47:44. > :47:46.perfectly clear what's my view is that this cannot go ahead next

:47:47. > :47:51.April, and any mitigation coming in should be for mitigation. I have

:47:52. > :47:59.made that view known to people on my side. It must be mitigation that

:48:00. > :48:07.protects the purist households, -- poorest households, which we have a

:48:08. > :48:13.lot of ink East Yorkshire. Would he accept that the government has

:48:14. > :48:16.accepted the principle he has just discussed about the changes to the

:48:17. > :48:24.system. Coming to pension changes, those who are coming to pension age,

:48:25. > :48:30.the government has not expected their expectations to be changed, so

:48:31. > :48:39.-- in receipt of tax credits? There -- in receipt of tax credits? There

:48:40. > :48:41.will be very little opposition to the government introducing these

:48:42. > :48:53.reforms the people who are not claiming tax credits it is very

:48:54. > :48:58.different when this place has helped shape peoples lives expectations

:48:59. > :49:09.under drive to all of a sudden pulled official and say they are I

:49:10. > :49:12.think people here and in the country feel strongly. Give way. On this

:49:13. > :49:17.specific issue of dealing with changes in relation to people coming

:49:18. > :49:19.into the system, does he not realise it shows the complexity of the

:49:20. > :49:25.system. Someone who is played -- paying enough to be out of the tax

:49:26. > :49:28.system may be a lot and do take the job because of it does not work out

:49:29. > :49:35.they come back into the system as a claimant. I was waiting for the

:49:36. > :49:39.Treasury bench to point out the Treasury bench to point out the

:49:40. > :49:48.difficulties with all of these moves, but it is really important

:49:49. > :49:59.that the government is in the whole. We are tying to make suggestions of

:50:00. > :50:04.how to get out of it. We will not get support from the Minister who is

:50:05. > :50:16.humility from the government would humility from the government would

:50:17. > :50:23.reinforce the requirement for this reinforce the requirement for this

:50:24. > :50:24.not to be another simple yes and no measure but it ought to be part

:50:25. > :50:31.primary legislation? If you were the primary legislation? If you were the

:50:32. > :50:37.Chancellor, you could make the Lords agreed to the new system. If it was

:50:38. > :50:38.an SI that the House cheered on its way to the other place, maybe that

:50:39. > :50:43.would be wise. If it was an SI in would be wise. If it was an SI in

:50:44. > :50:46.which there was deep disagreement which there was deep disagreement

:50:47. > :50:55.particularly on the government side to the proposal, I think it would be

:50:56. > :50:59.unwise not to do so. I give way. Isn't there also were here for a

:51:00. > :51:05.little bit of forethought and pre-emption. We're six months into a

:51:06. > :51:08.five-year Parliament. This is the first of many changes that may

:51:09. > :51:15.happen. Could he stressed that Parliament can be seen as a partner

:51:16. > :51:22.in this process, and rather than having a crisis management approach

:51:23. > :51:26.to this policy, can't we involve the Treasury Select Committee,

:51:27. > :51:29.colleagues in both houses, where the Treasury sets the object of but we

:51:30. > :51:31.say something to help them on their way? We know there has been a

:51:32. > :51:36.general election and they are entitled to get there laws, but to

:51:37. > :51:48.use Parliament as a partner rather than the constant crisis management.

:51:49. > :52:02.glorious opportunity to have a glorious opportunity to have a

:52:03. > :52:11.Chancellor to get it right, to change his image and to become a

:52:12. > :52:21.much more serious reformer on tax and benefit France. I am sure he did

:52:22. > :52:29.not want to land himself, but now he not want to land himself, but now he

:52:30. > :52:30.optimistic on the partnerships he optimistic on the partnerships

:52:31. > :52:30.can build on the way my right can build on the way my right

:52:31. > :52:31.honourable friend has spoken, but honourable friend has spoken, but

:52:32. > :52:31.also the opportunity it gives him, given that it takes into account

:52:32. > :52:32.effect of the welfare effect on the effect of the welfare effect on the

:52:33. > :52:32.wonder whether he has realised how wonder whether he has realised how

:52:33. > :52:33.significant that change is and could significant that change is and could

:52:34. > :52:43.be. If the members would allow me the fourth suggestion, which is one

:52:44. > :52:50.that I put forward and wish to attack no. This is largely to get

:52:51. > :53:03.the debate going. To take the Chancellor serious, reform should be

:53:04. > :53:11.possible to do it at zero cost, possible to do it at zero cost,

:53:12. > :53:12.possible to raise thresholds to the possible to raise thresholds to the

:53:13. > :53:12.national minimum wage at zero cost, national minimum wage at zero cost,

:53:13. > :53:13.but it will require an even greater but it will require an even greater

:53:14. > :53:18.penalty in the loss of tax credit and people above. There is not a

:53:19. > :53:26.great deal of support for the idea, but merely to stress that when we

:53:27. > :53:26.had this great huge uprising of the abolition of the 10p, the government

:53:27. > :53:33.was adamant it was not going to was adamant it was not going to

:53:34. > :53:36.big concessions, huge sums of money big concessions, huge sums of money

:53:37. > :53:42.were found at the Treasury to go were found at the Treasury to go

:53:43. > :53:44.everywhere but to help the 10p everywhere but to help the 10p

:53:45. > :53:48.people. Therefore, supposing the Chancellor did want to go down this

:53:49. > :53:54.zero cost, it is now clear he is going to put some extra money into

:53:55. > :54:01.the whole operation. -- the whole operation, it should go into those

:54:02. > :54:05.who will lose, not to us, who would benefit if the Chancellor raised the

:54:06. > :54:12.tax threshold further on increased the National Insurance threshold.

:54:13. > :54:16.Last quick point, not because I do not want to develop it further, but

:54:17. > :54:22.because I am conscious of large numbers of people wanting to

:54:23. > :54:27.participate. The government is going to give up 4.5 billion pounds in

:54:28. > :54:28.savings towards a deficit production, supplement money come

:54:29. > :54:36.from? I wish to suggest two areas. from? I wish to suggest two areas.

:54:37. > :54:43.One I have lifted from the tragedy because it is now briefing the media

:54:44. > :54:50.that one possible way of finding the actual resources, and what the Tory

:54:51. > :54:58.minimum delay in staged introduction minimum delay in staged introduction

:54:59. > :55:03.of this reform would be to have a smaller budget surplus by 2020. That

:55:04. > :55:13.certainly seems to be a possibility from the Treasury, so I have put it

:55:14. > :55:18.forward. The second proposal I have is that it is very interesting that

:55:19. > :55:25.the Chancellor has asked for views on how we might reform pension tax

:55:26. > :55:31.relief. There are huge sums of money involved here. If we abolished it

:55:32. > :55:35.overnight, and I am not advocating it, I do not think we should treat

:55:36. > :55:40.people who are higher up the income scale in the same horrible way the

:55:41. > :55:42.government was proposing to treat those on tax credits, I think people

:55:43. > :55:51.need time when government starts changing incentives, but if we do

:55:52. > :55:56.change overnight, we are talking about an extra ?34 billion. These

:55:57. > :56:01.are huge sums of money. If we put in 15% of the tax concession 31, it

:56:02. > :56:07.would be over 15 billion. I merely raise this issue because I think the

:56:08. > :56:21.government in this consultation about pension tax relief has not

:56:22. > :56:25.really got up to speed with this. Government had given up the ghost of

:56:26. > :56:42.which would take people off means which would take people off means

:56:43. > :56:45.save more so that they would not be save more so that they would not be

:56:46. > :56:47.in old age. The government is now in old age. The government is now

:56:48. > :56:47.introducing a basic state pension, introducing a basic state pension,

:56:48. > :56:50.which will for the first time ever have that achievement. I make way.

:56:51. > :57:06.LAUGHTER I have never seen that before! I

:57:07. > :57:09.thought if you were on your feet you had the right in the House and you

:57:10. > :57:18.were probably speaking, but there we are.

:57:19. > :57:23.Sometimes Government are very slow at looking how one really radical

:57:24. > :57:29.reform will knock on other parts of their programme. I do not think the

:57:30. > :57:33.Government is taking into account just what resources they begin to

:57:34. > :57:39.unlock, now that we have a pension that is going to come in, which will

:57:40. > :57:45.for the vast majority of people give them a pension that takes them off

:57:46. > :57:50.means-tested assistance. Therefore, the reasons for bribing people to

:57:51. > :57:58.save in particular ways really falls to the ground, and that does begin

:57:59. > :58:01.to unlock huge, huge sums of money. So, I haven't come making proposals

:58:02. > :58:09.without suggesting where money might come from. But I want to end, and I

:58:10. > :58:14.want to end on what these tax credit changes mean to our constituents if

:58:15. > :58:16.we are not successful today in convincing the Government very

:58:17. > :58:21.radically to rethink their proposals.

:58:22. > :58:27.Talking to constituents, and talking to other people's constituents in

:58:28. > :58:31.television programmes, you cannot come away without being incredibly

:58:32. > :58:36.conscious of the fear that people are suffering, about what these

:58:37. > :58:42.effects will actually do to them. People who we should be saluting and

:58:43. > :58:49.cheering, are sick with worry about how they are going to make ends

:58:50. > :58:53.meet, whether they are going to lose their homes, whether the mortgages

:58:54. > :58:58.can be, the interest on mortgages be repaid. Let alone the whole issues

:58:59. > :59:04.ability protecting in a proper way their own children. While it is

:59:05. > :59:09.important that we some time use technical language as a shorthand, I

:59:10. > :59:13.am sure in this debate we are never ever going to forget what this is

:59:14. > :59:18.about. This is about our constituents, about some of our most

:59:19. > :59:22.vulnerable constituents, and about a whole number of our vulnerable

:59:23. > :59:26.constituents, for their efforts in working we should be salutes and not

:59:27. > :59:29.handing out this sentence which terrifies them. So for this reason,

:59:30. > :59:35.I hope the House is going to come to one mind at the end, and pass our

:59:36. > :59:41.resolution and we get a responsive, very clear response from the

:59:42. > :59:45.Treasury bench. Before I call the next speaker I

:59:46. > :59:52.will impose a time limit of seven minutes. There are 30 members trying

:59:53. > :59:55.to catch the chair's eye plus three front bench contribution, we will

:59:56. > :00:02.start with seven minute, with that Steven mechanic part land.

:00:03. > :00:04.Thank you. It's a great pleasure to follow the Right Honourable member

:00:05. > :00:10.for Birkenhead who has spoken a lot of sense so far, I would like to

:00:11. > :00:14.join his thanks in thanking the backbench committee for allowing us

:00:15. > :00:19.to is a full day to debate the issue. I fully support the motion

:00:20. > :00:23.put down and I was delighted to put my name to it. I voted against the

:00:24. > :00:29.statutory instrument because I could not support the Government. It

:00:30. > :00:32.wasn't an easy thing to do. Am a Conservative Party MP, I did not

:00:33. > :00:38.feel I could support the Government on the statutory instrument. I

:00:39. > :00:42.support a high wage and low tax, a low welfare society, but I believe

:00:43. > :00:46.the tax credits need to be reformed. They cost over ?30 billion a year.

:00:47. > :00:50.They have snowballed. I have families who come to my surgeries

:00:51. > :00:56.all the time who are very upset about the fact that no two families

:00:57. > :00:59.are treated the same. There are huge overpayment, underpayment is an

:01:00. > :01:03.incredibly complicated system. A billion is lost a year in fraud.

:01:04. > :01:06.There are huge issues with the tax credit system but the problem was

:01:07. > :01:12.the impact it was going to have on those families with the lowest

:01:13. > :01:16.incomes, so, I accept, within the manifesto we said we would reduce

:01:17. > :01:20.the bell fair bill by 12 billion that will is something we immediate

:01:21. > :01:25.to look at. I will come on to that later. When we look at unemployment

:01:26. > :01:31.benefit, a lot the debate is often round how well fair is made up of

:01:32. > :01:37.unemployment. They make up a small proportion of the actual benefits

:01:38. > :01:42.bill, in total. For example, the welfare cap benefit cap reducing

:01:43. > :01:47.from 26,000 a year to 23,000 a year, which is popular on the doorsteps

:01:48. > :01:52.during the election campaign. It will save less than ?100 million

:01:53. > :01:59.because it affects less than 100 Sir Philip Hampton in the whole of the

:02:00. > :02:05.-- 100,000 families in the whole of the UK. I stood up for those

:02:06. > :02:09.families, that I believe Labour have left behind. I believed those

:02:10. > :02:13.families who occupy the centre ground I want to occupy the Prime

:02:14. > :02:16.Minister and the Chancellor spoke in their conference speeches about

:02:17. > :02:19.wanting to occupy that centre ground, those families who get up,

:02:20. > :02:23.and go to work, they are trying to do the right thing, they are trying

:02:24. > :02:26.to support their families, they are trying to work themselves out of

:02:27. > :02:30.poverty. They are the families that I support and the families I am

:02:31. > :02:35.happy to fight for. They are the families that I voted against the

:02:36. > :02:39.statutory instrument for, in my constituency. And across the United

:02:40. > :02:46.Kingdom. Why have I been so vocal on this? I cannot believe the impact of

:02:47. > :02:49.the changes was fully understood. The Right Honourable member for

:02:50. > :02:54.Birkenhead gave a good critique. One of the thes I want to focus on is

:02:55. > :03:01.the reduction in the threshold, where tax credits you can apply for

:03:02. > :03:09.them and receive them. The reduction from ?6420 down to ?3850, that is an

:03:10. > :03:12.instant ?1200 cut. Anybody who earns over 4628 pound will be hit

:03:13. > :03:18.straightaway. It is far too up many of a blunt instrument for me. So, I

:03:19. > :03:22.have used the example of a teaching assistant earning maybe ?11,000 a

:03:23. > :03:26.year. They have restrictions on the hours they can work. They do a

:03:27. > :03:29.valuable job, educating the next generation of society, future

:03:30. > :03:33.leaders in business and everything else. I am very proud of the work

:03:34. > :03:39.they do. I make no bone, my wife is a primary school teacher. I am proud

:03:40. > :03:44.of her. My sister a secondary school teacher. They do a great job. How

:03:45. > :03:48.are they expected to go out and make up that, be about a ?1400 cut to

:03:49. > :03:55.their income? It is not possible. And for me, it was too much of a cut

:03:56. > :04:01.all in one go. The tapering from 41% up to 48, that was only, that adds

:04:02. > :04:06.only 2 or ?300 in terms of a cut. The original threshold is the ?1200

:04:07. > :04:09.cut. That is the bit I cannot support, that is the bit, why I had

:04:10. > :04:15.to vote against the statutory instrument. Why I have not been able

:04:16. > :04:20.to support the Government in the lobbies since then. Happy to give

:04:21. > :04:26.way. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Does he agree that a

:04:27. > :04:29.basic test of the fairness of the introduction of this package is that

:04:30. > :04:33.the painful part of the package, such as the reduction in the

:04:34. > :04:39.threshold that he highlights shouldn't be introduced so up many

:04:40. > :04:43.more quickly than the pollstive that the increase in the living wage and

:04:44. > :04:50.personal allowance and other benefits that form part of the

:04:51. > :04:54.package? I agree with the honourable gentleman as members can imagine.

:04:55. > :04:58.For me, I would like to point out on that current mitigation, if we talk

:04:59. > :05:02.about this teaching assistant or the cleaner, people in society who are

:05:03. > :05:10.doing a great job for us, the people we need to reach out to. Those

:05:11. > :05:13.people who are going to have to... You mention teaching assistants and

:05:14. > :05:19.cleaners, I should probably declare an interest at this point, because I

:05:20. > :05:24.was a teacher who was in receipt of tax credit, and at the point with

:05:25. > :05:29.the scheme came into being, I was a single parent, and only that I had

:05:30. > :05:34.the tax credits, I was able to remain in employment. It was a very

:05:35. > :05:38.difficult time for me, and I was faced with the chance of actually

:05:39. > :05:43.going into unemployment, and being with my child or remaining in work.

:05:44. > :05:47.So it is not just teaching assistants and cleaner, thereby

:05:48. > :05:52.others in society as well. -- there are. I a degree. I am using

:05:53. > :05:54.the example of teaching assistants because I think it's a classic

:05:55. > :05:58.example and people who are constricted in the hours they are

:05:59. > :06:02.able to work, they can only have so many hours a week, for so many days

:06:03. > :06:06.throughout the year. In terms of the current mitigation, there has been

:06:07. > :06:11.talk about free childcare for three and four-year-olds and how that

:06:12. > :06:16.helps set it off. If you don't it doesn't help whatsoever. There is

:06:17. > :06:19.talk about the personal income tax allowance is increasing from 11,000

:06:20. > :06:23.to 12,500. I would like to see it go up to 15,000 by the end of the

:06:24. > :06:29.Parliament. If you don't earn more it is of no use to you. If you are

:06:30. > :06:33.on ?11,000 you are being hit with the 1200 cut. It is punishing people

:06:34. > :06:36.who are going out there and trying to work and do the right thing. That

:06:37. > :06:41.does not sit right with me, so that is something I could not support.

:06:42. > :06:48.Happy to give way. Thank you. Would he feel a taper

:06:49. > :06:54.sort of system would better suited for this particular policy? That is

:06:55. > :06:58.a possible solution, I am sure the Treasury is looking into it. I would

:06:59. > :07:04.like to work with the Treasury in how they can do this mitigation, and

:07:05. > :07:10.hope they can listen. Give him a job. I would like to point out I

:07:11. > :07:14.don't want a job. In reality, getting back to these people on

:07:15. > :07:17.?11,000 a year and thereabout, who will be particularly punished by

:07:18. > :07:19.this policy as it currently stands, I am pleased that the Chancellor is

:07:20. > :07:24.listening and though I don't agree with the House of Lords in what they

:07:25. > :07:28.are done, I accept it brought us to this particular position. I want the

:07:29. > :07:31.debate not to be focussed on constitutional issues but focussed

:07:32. > :07:35.on the loss of income for those people who won't have an ability to

:07:36. > :07:40.make that income up else where. That is where I want it focussed. How can

:07:41. > :07:43.we do this? We talk about the changes in personal income tax

:07:44. > :07:48.allowance, changes from 11 thousand thousand pounds to 12,500. That will

:07:49. > :07:52.cost about ?9 billion. One of the points I wanted to make was we spend

:07:53. > :07:57.over 00 billion a year as a vt go. It is as if we can't find this 4.4

:07:58. > :08:02.billion that will be the end of life as we know it, which we know is not

:08:03. > :08:09.going to be the case. There is a way it can be mitigated, dealt with, so

:08:10. > :08:14.how do we reform tax credits without punishing these who try to do the

:08:15. > :08:17.right thing. Three billion of that 4tttese who try to do the right

:08:18. > :08:22.thing. Three billion of that 4.4 billion saving is that original

:08:23. > :08:27.change in thresholds. Talking about the initial ?1200 cut. That broad

:08:28. > :08:33.instrument that punishes, you. Whether you are earning just over

:08:34. > :08:36.6,00 pounds or ?19,000. You are getting hit with that cut. It has to

:08:37. > :08:41.be mitigated, it has to be changed. We have to find a way round that

:08:42. > :08:45.original ?1200 cut. It is too much, too far. There is talk about a

:08:46. > :08:53.discretionary hardship fund. I would welcome that for the people who are

:08:54. > :08:58.struggling happy to give way. No, sorry. There has been a lot of

:08:59. > :09:05.talk about National Insurance. I would like to spiel not pay any on

:09:06. > :09:11.the first 11,000 of their income. It the first 11,000 of their income. It

:09:12. > :09:15.would be too expensive. For me it is how... Suggest to me if you take

:09:16. > :09:19.4ttt to me if you take 4.4 billion off people earning the lowest

:09:20. > :09:22.incomes, that is 4.4 billion straight out the economy because you

:09:23. > :09:25.are taking them out of their pockets and they use that money and go out

:09:26. > :09:28.and spend right away. So every pound you take off them you are taking out

:09:29. > :09:32.of the shops and the local economies. It doesn't seem to make

:09:33. > :09:40.sense. I want to work with the Treasury. I can be a prodigal son, I

:09:41. > :09:49.am sure I can be returned to the fold. Can I join you? You are a bit

:09:50. > :09:52.more than I am. There is huge fear out there in the public and we need

:09:53. > :09:56.to come forward with some proposals as fast as we can. I do want to urge

:09:57. > :10:01.the Treasury to talk to us, to listen to us, to work with us,

:10:02. > :10:04.because I warn the Treasury, if I think that don't come forward with

:10:05. > :10:08.mitigation proposals we are going to continue to raise the issue and we

:10:09. > :10:12.are going to continue trying to ensure we look after those poorest

:10:13. > :10:17.in society. I accept Britain has 1 % of the world's population, generates

:10:18. > :10:21.4% of the world's income and spends 7% on welfare spending. It is too

:10:22. > :10:28.much. I am proud of the Conservative Party, I will continue to put

:10:29. > :10:32.fairness at the heart of it. It is a real privilege to follow the

:10:33. > :10:37.contribution from the member for Stevenage. Other than that last

:10:38. > :10:41.sentence or two, I thought it was a tremendous speech. I do hope that

:10:42. > :10:45.the Treasury bench is listening to the words that he uttered, because I

:10:46. > :10:49.think there is widespread agreement within this chamber, and out new the

:10:50. > :10:55.country, about the points that he made. He made a very detailed

:10:56. > :10:59.analysis of the situation, and made some sensible suggestions, that I

:11:00. > :11:05.think we can all support, so I hope you are able to return to the fold,

:11:06. > :11:08.because we would like to see the Chancellor dig himself out of this

:11:09. > :11:12.hole he has created for himself. He has certainly got himself in a real

:11:13. > :11:17.situation here, we are fascinated to Woolwich how he gets himself out of

:11:18. > :11:24.it. -- to watch. I think the Lords did him a favour there. I think had

:11:25. > :11:29.this whole thing pass, the anger in this nation, these changes, would be

:11:30. > :11:32.something we not seen, certainly in my adult life, and I think the

:11:33. > :11:38.Government in a sense is being let off the hook now, in that it has an

:11:39. > :11:42.opportunity to dream up some mitigation and try and put this

:11:43. > :11:47.awful mess right, but they need to hurry up, because the fear of what

:11:48. > :11:49.is going to happen and the uncertainty about what is going to

:11:50. > :11:59.happen, is already out there. I spent Saturday morning in

:12:00. > :12:03.Darlington talking to residents about the changes to tax credits.

:12:04. > :12:07.And they already know what is happening. They are already

:12:08. > :12:11.worried, they are already looking at their incomes, they are already

:12:12. > :12:15.changing decisions and plans and financial commitments for the

:12:16. > :12:20.future, and making decisions on employment already. So the

:12:21. > :12:24.government needs to get on with this and come up with some decent ideas

:12:25. > :12:31.that will actually work and mitigate against the very, the damage that is

:12:32. > :12:35.being done that was so cleverly and successfully outlined by the member

:12:36. > :12:44.for Birkenhead when he proposed this debate. I will give way. Isn't one

:12:45. > :12:49.of the major problems the speed in which the tax credits cut is coming

:12:50. > :12:54.in, balanced with the speed with the national minimum wage will rise, as

:12:55. > :12:57.was said to me, it feels like they are removing the life belt before

:12:58. > :13:04.the lifeboat has arrived. I think that will be one of the quotes of

:13:05. > :13:13.the day, that is a very good way of putting this. I am speaking here on

:13:14. > :13:18.behalf of the 7200 families in my constituency who care for the 3900

:13:19. > :13:25.children who will be losing out as a result of these changes. And we

:13:26. > :13:27.really are, when the government brings forward whatever ideas it is

:13:28. > :13:35.going to come up with in mitigation, we must have the information we need

:13:36. > :13:40.in order to assess whether the idea is to mitigate the impact are

:13:41. > :13:44.actually going to be effective. The member for Birkenhead outlined the

:13:45. > :13:50.data that he would like to see, and I would like to see a regional

:13:51. > :13:57.distribution of this. I suspect that communities like the one I represent

:13:58. > :14:00.where wages are low, will be impacted more heavily than other

:14:01. > :14:05.parts of the country. I am also interested in the gender impact of

:14:06. > :14:09.these changes, and I would like to see how much debt the government

:14:10. > :14:15.believes is being serviced by incomes that are in part made up of

:14:16. > :14:21.tax credits. I suspect that there are mortgages, there are car loans,

:14:22. > :14:27.debt are other personal debts, credit cards, being paid back on the

:14:28. > :14:30.back of tax credits. I thank my honourable friend for giving way,

:14:31. > :14:36.but the problem is about to get worse, because there are people on

:14:37. > :14:42.zero hour contracts that cannot get tax credits. I think he makes a very

:14:43. > :14:48.good point and I think it is for the Treasury bench to respond to that

:14:49. > :14:53.intervention and I look forward to hearing the reply. This is about

:14:54. > :14:57.children, and it costs an enormous amount to raise a child as many of

:14:58. > :15:04.us here will know from personal experience. I have read it can take

:15:05. > :15:10.between 100 and ?150,000 to raise a child, and child benefit, it did not

:15:11. > :15:14.meet ten or 15% of that cost for those people who claim it. This is a

:15:15. > :15:25.contribution from towards the cost of raising children. I will give

:15:26. > :15:31.way. There are some children who will benefit from these changes,

:15:32. > :15:34.they are the children of dead millionaires, who will get ?1

:15:35. > :15:38.million extra tax-free, does she think that is the fair transfer,

:15:39. > :15:47.from the poorest to the rich in the country? No, I do not, that is a

:15:48. > :15:50.pertinent point. I know we will be challenged as to whether money can

:15:51. > :15:56.be found to make this change, you can change it and find it from

:15:57. > :16:01.changes to tax relief in pensions and changes in inheritance tax which

:16:02. > :16:06.we remain opposed to. I would like to illustrate the points I have made

:16:07. > :16:09.in the limited time we have been given. We have had quite a

:16:10. > :16:13.high-level discussion so far and this is actually about real people.

:16:14. > :16:18.Very rarely can you find a constituent who is willing to have

:16:19. > :16:21.their name and personal information, particularly about a financial

:16:22. > :16:30.issue, shared in the House of Commons. But I have had no

:16:31. > :16:33.difficulty at all in finding people in Darlington who are willing to

:16:34. > :16:37.have their name and details to become, they would see it, as

:16:38. > :16:42.becoming the poster people for these campaigns because they are so angry

:16:43. > :16:46.about what the government is trying to do to them. Becky in my

:16:47. > :16:53.constituency, she lives in the red Hall estate. She earns around

:16:54. > :17:03.?16,500 per year. She is single parent and her son is eight years

:17:04. > :17:09.old. She stands to lose ?1950 tax credits per year. She said to me

:17:10. > :17:13.that she is already struggling, she has difficulty paying for essentials

:17:14. > :17:19.like heating and electricity will stop she will not seek a change to

:17:20. > :17:22.her salary when the wages increase. And she will not benefit from the

:17:23. > :17:28.childcare changes because her son is eight years old. Eight-year-olds, I

:17:29. > :17:38.can tell the Minister, no cheaper to run than a 4 -year-old. Amen! She

:17:39. > :17:41.has already had to cut out extras, she can no longer buy herself

:17:42. > :17:47.clothes and the reduction in income will have to come from the money she

:17:48. > :17:52.spends on food or heating her home. The government, this is her words,

:17:53. > :17:57.the government have told us that working was the way forward out of

:17:58. > :18:02.poverty and yet these changes will put me and my son into poverty. The

:18:03. > :18:09.very real choice she will have to make is between heating and feeding

:18:10. > :18:14.her son, but it is also going to be, for many people, between working and

:18:15. > :18:20.not working. And that is what concerns me the most. I want

:18:21. > :18:24.everybody who can work in my constituency to get out and get a

:18:25. > :18:30.job. Because it is good for them and it is good for their kids. But it

:18:31. > :18:34.should never, ever, ever be, you should never be better off on

:18:35. > :18:41.benefits than you are in work. And that will be the effect of this

:18:42. > :18:45.change. I will give way. I am so grateful for giving way. Her speech

:18:46. > :18:52.follows in the tradition of Eleanor Rathbone, who was here from 1929 in

:18:53. > :18:54.the earliest of parliaments as a woman, and campaigned for fan in the

:18:55. > :19:01.earliest of parliaments as a woman, and campaigned for constituents is

:19:02. > :19:05.because in this country, we have topped up incomes understanding that

:19:06. > :19:09.position for poor people and children actually four successive

:19:10. > :19:15.governments. Churchill extended the system on family allowances. She

:19:16. > :19:20.makes a fantastic speech. But in her last point, does she also accent

:19:21. > :19:26.that people will take one, two, three jobs, and we will have

:19:27. > :19:29.latchkey kids raising themselves? I am grateful for that information, I

:19:30. > :19:40.wish he had made it a little bit shorter! I am speaking on but half

:19:41. > :19:45.of the cooks, cleans, shop assistants, shop staff, call centre

:19:46. > :19:48.workers and factory workers. This government has got to take the

:19:49. > :19:57.opportunity that it has been granted by the other place and use that

:19:58. > :20:00.opportunity to put this right. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a

:20:01. > :20:05.pleasure to speak in this debate and can I congratulate the member for

:20:06. > :20:09.Birkenhead for securing the debate in support of others. This is an

:20:10. > :20:15.opportune moment to discuss this in more depth, and possibly with eight

:20:16. > :20:18.degree of unanimously across the benches, because this is a conflict

:20:19. > :20:22.area that needs to be looked at carefully. We have heard talk of the

:20:23. > :20:27.need for immediate mitigation. Really what we need to do is look at

:20:28. > :20:30.this issue again. 18 years ago, the Right Honourable member for

:20:31. > :20:37.Birkenhead was asked to think the unthinkable, tried to do so and was

:20:38. > :20:43.properly slacked for his efforts. This is as corrugated now as it was

:20:44. > :20:49.-- and was promptly sacked for his efforts. We need to look very

:20:50. > :20:52.carefully at creating a system that supports working families and people

:20:53. > :20:55.who are raising children, that supports people who want to do the

:20:56. > :21:01.right thing. We need to create a system which does not penalised

:21:02. > :21:05.those buried people due to very high reduction rates and a change that

:21:06. > :21:09.would undoubtedly penalised the poorest workers in society. I find

:21:10. > :21:15.myself in race into this issue feeling disappointed to say the

:21:16. > :21:18.least that I am not in agreement with my government, the first five

:21:19. > :21:21.years in this place, I think the changes we brought forward to the

:21:22. > :21:25.welfare state, the way in which we tried to make work pay for people

:21:26. > :21:28.who were willing to go out and contribute to their communities and

:21:29. > :21:33.look after their families, I was proud of those changes. The most

:21:34. > :21:36.moving events of my time in Parliament was when I actually

:21:37. > :21:44.visited a Tesco store in Toxteth, and I have said this before, and I

:21:45. > :21:48.met people who were there on a DWP effort to get people back into work.

:21:49. > :21:52.And the pride and passion that those individuals had and the fact that

:21:53. > :21:55.they were now working and supporting their own families was testament to

:21:56. > :21:59.the changes that we were making and the fact that those changes were

:22:00. > :22:04.making a real difference. There is no doubt the tax credits, whether we

:22:05. > :22:07.like them or not, and the system had undoubtedly ballooned out of

:22:08. > :22:10.control, but whether we like to tax credits or not, they are an

:22:11. > :22:15.important element of supporting those very workers who are willing

:22:16. > :22:20.to work but who have wages who are not competitive. We come to a

:22:21. > :22:24.situation in which we had a Budget which was important in many ways.

:22:25. > :22:27.The decision to introduce a new minimum living wage is a decision we

:22:28. > :22:31.should all applaud but there is clearly a discrepancy between the

:22:32. > :22:36.timing of the changes to the new living way, for example, and the

:22:37. > :22:40.changes to the tax credit system. There is no balance to the way in

:22:41. > :22:44.which wages will increase and the fact that the tax credits will be

:22:45. > :22:49.withdrawn immediately. I welcome the fact that the Treasury is allowing

:22:50. > :22:52.time for the new living wage to settle in. I represent a

:22:53. > :23:03.constituency of small businesses and self traders, I have the highest

:23:04. > :23:06.proportion of self-employed people in my constituency. The small

:23:07. > :23:10.businesses understand we need to move higher wage economy and they

:23:11. > :23:13.need to pay their staff properly. Many of them take pride in the fact

:23:14. > :23:19.that they pay above the minimum wage as a main means of keeping staff in

:23:20. > :23:21.place. But the small businesses appreciate the fact that the

:23:22. > :23:24.government is giving them time to adapt and change their businesses

:23:25. > :23:30.and business models in order to be able to pay their staff more. It is

:23:31. > :23:34.therefore in my view difficult to understand why we were not able to

:23:35. > :23:37.give tax credit recipients the same time to adapt and change into the

:23:38. > :23:42.situation we were proposing. The decision to cut so quickly and so

:23:43. > :23:50.deeply was clearly problematic and the response in both houses has

:23:51. > :23:54.showing people were concerned. In terms of how do we move forward, the

:23:55. > :23:59.one thing we have to be aware of is we need to educate mothers of this

:24:00. > :24:04.house. I think the worst example of a crass comment in this issue was

:24:05. > :24:09.the Conservative MP who stated quite clearly that if somebody loses ?30

:24:10. > :24:15.per week, they simply need to go out and work an extra three hours. I was

:24:16. > :24:22.genuinely shocked by that comment because with an 80% marginal

:24:23. > :24:27.reduction, an individual on ?10 per hour would need to find 15 hours

:24:28. > :24:32.work to make up that loss. Where we have that kind of comment coming

:24:33. > :24:36.from members who claim to understand their constituents, we need to

:24:37. > :24:40.despair. We need to understand the trap that we have. I was proud of

:24:41. > :24:44.the fact that universal credit was trying to reduce the marginal rate.

:24:45. > :24:48.I was proud of the fact that when I sat on the welfare bill committee,

:24:49. > :24:52.it was stated categorically by the minister that the aim would be to

:24:53. > :24:56.reduce even further the marginal reduction rate, where funds allowed.

:24:57. > :25:01.And the Prime Minister stated categorically that the Conservative

:25:02. > :25:06.Party should be as concerned, even if not more concerned, about

:25:07. > :25:12.marginal eduction rates of 95p that we inherited than the 50p high rate

:25:13. > :25:19.of tax. It was very disappointing to see that incentive be changed as we

:25:20. > :25:22.saw in these proposals. We need to look carefully at what message we

:25:23. > :25:26.are sending to people when we say to them, go out and work an extra

:25:27. > :25:30.couple of hours, but we will take 80% of your efforts. That is

:25:31. > :25:34.something we need to be careful about. That is why when the talk

:25:35. > :25:39.about mitigation, it is short-term response. Long-term, we need to to

:25:40. > :25:44.to about the whole system. -- look at the whole system. I have had

:25:45. > :25:47.numerous conversations with ministers, I am grateful to the

:25:48. > :25:55.Minister on the government bench, who called me up and made my

:25:56. > :25:59.difficulties in a long queue on the roads in Wales more bearable by

:26:00. > :26:03.discussing tax credits with me. The Treasury have shown they are willing

:26:04. > :26:07.to listen. We need to make sure in the long term that we look carefully

:26:08. > :26:10.at how we create a system which is much more likely to support working

:26:11. > :26:14.families in a way which is constructive, but in the short-term

:26:15. > :26:20.he stated clearly that we should look carefully at how we can deal

:26:21. > :26:23.with his ?4.4 billion gap in the government finances. I do take the

:26:24. > :26:27.issue of the deficit seriously. One thing we need to think about is the

:26:28. > :26:32.way in which 70% of all the benefits from the increased personal

:26:33. > :26:36.allowances have gone to the highest paid in society, 70% has gone to the

:26:37. > :26:45.half who are in the richest side of the society. We need to ask clearly

:26:46. > :26:47.whether we can, in view of the fact that we are desperate to find 4.4

:26:48. > :26:50.billion, we need to ask, can we justify an extra 9 billion to

:26:51. > :26:55.increasingly personal allowance? That could mitigate in the

:26:56. > :27:00.short-term. But we need long-term plan as well.

:27:01. > :27:06.He makes a very important point about how little people keep for

:27:07. > :27:10.every pound extra they earn. I seem to recall that the Prime Minister

:27:11. > :27:15.once took to task Gordon Brown for that very issue. It is on film and

:27:16. > :27:19.you can look at it on YouTube. It is important about making work pay that

:27:20. > :27:22.people feel for every extra hour they work they are making a

:27:23. > :27:26.difference to their progression in their working lives. The starting

:27:27. > :27:30.point nor this debate is the Chancellor's ill formed proposals to

:27:31. > :27:34.reform Working Tax Credit. The truth is the distribution aspect of the

:27:35. > :27:39.tax credit cuts are severely regressive. It has shown that the

:27:40. > :27:44.national living wage touted as a solution to this at best undoes 20%

:27:45. > :27:50.of the damage. Today what I want to start with, is how the story really

:27:51. > :27:56.begin, because the story begins in 1997, when Labour came to power, the

:27:57. > :27:59.only help for families was child benefit, a married person's tax

:28:00. > :28:04.benefit and a child personal allowance. A small number of people

:28:05. > :28:07.with disabilities also received a disability working allowance. The

:28:08. > :28:11.Government then found that there were high rates of poverty among

:28:12. > :28:15.families with children and tax credits were thought to be a new

:28:16. > :28:19.mechanism to support those families into work as the best route out of

:28:20. > :28:23.poverty. The evidence is strong. That the more far-reaching tax

:28:24. > :28:28.credits and the introduction of help with childcare costs transformed the

:28:29. > :28:33.prospects for millions of families. One consequence was, one outcome was

:28:34. > :28:39.that the lone parent employment rate Rose, that until 2014 it is the

:28:40. > :28:43.highest on record. 65.7%. That is amazing and of course, a vast

:28:44. > :28:47.majority of the lone parents are women. Another outcome was that the

:28:48. > :28:54.tax credits reduced child poverty. DWP confirm in the first decade of

:28:55. > :28:58.tax credits child poverty fell dramatically as 1.1 million children

:28:59. > :29:02.were lifted out of poverty to 2010. Secondly they gave a benefit to

:29:03. > :29:06.employee, they are not simply a state hand out to bad employer. When

:29:07. > :29:10.most are setting wanes they are blind to the private tax credit

:29:11. > :29:15.details of their employees. What is more, they cannot pay one worker one

:29:16. > :29:21.wage and the next person a different rate because they claim tax credits.

:29:22. > :29:26.In most cases, the employer does not know. As a resolution report found

:29:27. > :29:31.this week, if the Government removes tax credits, the employer will not

:29:32. > :29:33.immediately step in to fill that void, regardless of the rises in the

:29:34. > :29:38.national minimum wage or the national living wage. The Government

:29:39. > :29:43.must know this, and it is wrong to suggest that the only beneficiaries

:29:44. > :29:47.of tax credits are bad employers. Second, we have to challenge and

:29:48. > :29:53.address the Chancellor's claim that the dost of tax credits have risen

:29:54. > :29:57.from 1 billion to 30 billion today. This summer the Chancellor stated

:29:58. > :30:00.the original tax credit system cost 1.1 billion in its first year, this

:30:01. > :30:08.year that cost has reached 30 billion. This claim is bogus.

:30:09. > :30:16.Articles by Declan Gaffney and Tim Blackwell show it relates to only

:30:17. > :30:20.the first reforms which began in October 199 and only covering three

:30:21. > :30:25.months of tax credit payment for a typical claimant. In its first full

:30:26. > :30:29.year, 2000-2001. The cost was more like 10.5 billion, not 1.1 billion.

:30:30. > :30:36.Which brings me to the question, of why the tax credit bill has

:30:37. > :30:38.increased. First, tax credits, a number of previously separate

:30:39. > :30:44.benefits and were more generous, I acknowledge that. But the tax

:30:45. > :30:47.credits we refer to today include childcare costs introduced in 2003

:30:48. > :30:52.which no previous Government had met, so yes, it was about

:30:53. > :30:56.challenging poverty pay, but as my honourable friend from Darlington

:30:57. > :30:59.has referred to in her speech, it was addressing for those many

:31:00. > :31:04.families, particularly women, the lone parent women, even if they were

:31:05. > :31:07.on a reasonable page wage, whatever reasonable is they couldn't afford

:31:08. > :31:11.to work because the amount of their wage that was being paid out in

:31:12. > :31:17.terms of childcare costs. Grateful. She is making a powerful

:31:18. > :31:21.case, does she agree with me that the important element about tax

:31:22. > :31:27.credits was it was a means of getting particularly lone parents

:31:28. > :31:33.into work. And Gingerbread have done aical I can lacing that a 5% rise

:31:34. > :31:37.saves the Treasury ?436 million. So it is a benefit to the wider

:31:38. > :31:40.economy, in itself, just simply getting lone parents in particular

:31:41. > :31:45.into the workplace. I agree. That is another thing

:31:46. > :31:49.missing from the debate. Is what are the impacts of the changes on other

:31:50. > :31:52.sectors of the economy, and the wellbeing and the economic

:31:53. > :31:58.opportunities it provides to people, through being in work. As I said,

:31:59. > :32:04.the employment rate has gone up to 67%, which is brilliant. And the

:32:05. > :32:08.worry is with these changes will it go back wards rather than improving

:32:09. > :32:13.further. The total tax credits families reserve relates to their

:32:14. > :32:18.income. The recession of 20082009 did have a dramatic effect on wages,

:32:19. > :32:21.as wages fell, many of those families, either qualify for tax

:32:22. > :32:27.credits or saw their tax credit rise. It is notable that during the

:32:28. > :32:34.John Major recession, unemployment rose to a peak of 10.7% by 1993.

:32:35. > :32:38.Whereas in the recession of 2008-9, many employers reduced hours or

:32:39. > :32:42.didn't increase pay in order to keep staff in, who. I sort of understand

:32:43. > :32:45.why they did that. I think in this House there were debates about how

:32:46. > :32:49.we did appreciate employers were trying to deal with the difficult

:32:50. > :32:56.situation but hold on to people in work. But, the resulting factor was

:32:57. > :32:59.more people who claim tax credits or their tax credit contribution rose

:33:00. > :33:04.in accordance with that. The other important fact, remember what I said

:33:05. > :33:09.about the John Major recession, in that recession, in the last

:33:10. > :33:13.recession, as a result of a number of factors and employers keeping

:33:14. > :33:18.people in work, unemployment only rose to 8.5%. Recent figures show

:33:19. > :33:23.the number of employees learning less -- earning less than the living

:33:24. > :33:27.wage has risen. Holding people in work, but those very same people

:33:28. > :33:32.needing more support through tax credits, this isn't a conspiracy,

:33:33. > :33:39.this is a reality of an economy adjusting to finding itself in

:33:40. > :33:43.difficult situations, and the state being there as a safety net to help

:33:44. > :33:46.them. Without tax credits the rise in unemployment in that most serious

:33:47. > :33:49.recession we have experienced could have been up many worse. I think

:33:50. > :33:53.that goes a long way to explain the cost of tax credits today. This

:33:54. > :33:57.week, given the voting in other place the Chancellor says he is in

:33:58. > :34:01.listening mode. We must address how we support people into work and to

:34:02. > :34:07.make progress to improve their living standards and the life

:34:08. > :34:09.chances of their children. I agree with everything my right honourable

:34:10. > :34:14.gentleman friend for Birkenhead said today. I won't repeat that. Let me

:34:15. > :34:17.add a final few points, in moving forward, I think there is a number

:34:18. > :34:22.of things that have to happen. First, the Government must be

:34:23. > :34:26.straight about the figures relating to tax credits, only then can we

:34:27. > :34:30.have a sensible conversation, second, the Chancellor needs to

:34:31. > :34:34.provide a proper assessment of the impact of any new proposals on

:34:35. > :34:38.incentives or disincentives to work for those who receive tax credit, I

:34:39. > :34:41.ask the Chancellor if he stood up for working people why this wasn't

:34:42. > :34:45.published with his last proposal. He didn't answer and that is because I

:34:46. > :34:50.feel he is afraid to face the facts. Third, the Chancellor needs to ask

:34:51. > :34:55.what any impact new proposals will have on child poverty. Fourthly, we

:34:56. > :34:58.need to look more widely across departments, at what support

:34:59. > :35:05.actually helps people to get into work, stay in work, and make

:35:06. > :35:09.progress in work. I founded the first all party group on childcare

:35:10. > :35:14.when I came into this place 18 years ago. It is still nod good enough for

:35:15. > :35:18.many working families. This easy are the questions I need answers for,

:35:19. > :35:21.for the 5300 families who are worried about the future of their

:35:22. > :35:25.tax credits and their ability to hold their head up high and say, I

:35:26. > :35:29.am in work, helping to support my children.

:35:30. > :35:38.It is a great pleasure to speak in the debate and can I thank the

:35:39. > :35:44.honourable member for Birkenhead to for initiating this debate. It has

:35:45. > :35:49.been very good. I also want to thank the contributions from the

:35:50. > :35:54.honourable member for Stevenage because I think, I, dare I say I am

:35:55. > :35:57.getting more mature in years, I am a chairman of a Select Committee, I

:35:58. > :36:02.can afford to be a bit more independent, but like I said, it is

:36:03. > :36:06.not always easy in furthering your ambitions in the party, if you stand

:36:07. > :36:10.up for what you believe to be right. I think we are standing up for what

:36:11. > :36:16.we believe to be right, because as far as I am concerned it is

:36:17. > :36:22.absolutely fundamental that people that work are better off than those

:36:23. > :36:29.that don't. I think if we get this wrong, it is absolutely for me, it

:36:30. > :36:31.is something I believe in. Everything I believe about the

:36:32. > :36:35.Conservative Party is in order to encourage people into work, and then

:36:36. > :36:41.they will be better off. And if we are not at all careful, this policy

:36:42. > :36:45.will drive people back on benefit, and it will go in the opposite

:36:46. > :36:50.direction that what we want, where we want to take people.

:36:51. > :36:54.I very much support what the Chancellor has done with taking

:36:55. > :36:58.millions of people out of tax, raising the threshold, halving the

:36:59. > :37:04.deficit and driving the economy. Creating vast amounts of employment

:37:05. > :37:08.in this country. I come from a constituency that only had 1%

:37:09. > :37:16.unemployment. But of course, what that hides is that we have got a lot

:37:17. > :37:22.of employment, but I have, let me check the actual figure, the average

:37:23. > :37:28.salary in Tiverton an Honiton for full and part-time employees is

:37:29. > :37:32.18,000 o 18700. The number of families claiming working and tax

:37:33. > :37:37.credits is over 22%. In addition the average house price

:37:38. > :37:40.in Tiverton and Honiton is round 190,000, because we have quite high

:37:41. > :37:45.prices in the constituency, because it is a beautiful part of the

:37:46. > :37:53.country to live. But we have got to make sure that we support those

:37:54. > :37:56.people that are working hard, in our constituencies across the cub tri.

:37:57. > :38:00.That is why this -- country. That is why this opportunity we have we need

:38:01. > :38:07.to take it and do something real with it. What, I disagree entirely

:38:08. > :38:11.with what the House of Lords did, but what it has done, as it has

:38:12. > :38:18.given us an opportunity to look again. And can I be so bold to say,

:38:19. > :38:22.Madam Deputy Speaker, you can have as many spin-doctors and clever

:38:23. > :38:28.people with figures as you like, but this the end, when it comes to the

:38:29. > :38:33.fact that when you on a low income, and you are relying on tax credits,

:38:34. > :38:37.when you know that money has been taken away from you, it is

:38:38. > :38:42.absolutely real. And so I think the Government and the Chancellor are in

:38:43. > :38:45.this, on this occasion, and I hate to have to say it does have to be

:38:46. > :38:50.absolutely certain as to how many people are going to be affected and

:38:51. > :38:57.what we are going to do about it. Because again, I very much support

:38:58. > :39:00.the national living wage. But again, the Government and the Chancellor

:39:01. > :39:06.needs to give all those small company, because many of us have

:39:07. > :39:12.very much small companies in our constituencies, which will need

:39:13. > :39:15.help, in order to be able to pay the national living wage. As people get

:39:16. > :39:21.more in their pockets and more from their employment. That is when we

:39:22. > :39:26.can reduce the tax credits, that is when we can reduce, if you like, the

:39:27. > :39:31.state subsidy on employment, because we all get that, we all know what

:39:32. > :39:36.has to be done, but we cannot do its in the speed that we are doing it,

:39:37. > :39:42.and drive perhaps millions of people and take money away from them, and

:39:43. > :39:48.of course, you know, in, it is simple arithmetic, if you are on a

:39:49. > :39:53.low salary, those ?1,000 or ?2,000, or ?1300, whatever it might be, is a

:39:54. > :39:58.huge amount of your actual disposal income. It is about disposable

:39:59. > :40:02.income. That is what we must remember, and so I am optimistic, I

:40:03. > :40:07.have always been optimistic in my life, because I believe teleis a

:40:08. > :40:11.solution. I believe there is is a solution because the Chancellor is a

:40:12. > :40:16.very clever man and he should listen and I am sure he is listening, and

:40:17. > :40:21.he will come back to this chamber, with some proposals, that will show

:40:22. > :40:26.that working people, hard-working people, whether they are cleaning,

:40:27. > :40:29.or whether they are classroom assistant, where whether they work

:40:30. > :40:33.in the Health Service, the private sector, whether they work in the

:40:34. > :40:40.tourism industry or whether they work on farms. They are all very

:40:41. > :40:45.hard-working people. We must be a party and a government that supports

:40:46. > :40:50.the hard-working person, and we have done that, up until now, and we have

:40:51. > :40:54.just lost our way, a little. And I think we can come back out of the

:40:55. > :41:06.wilderness, and I think we can put this right. I will give way to the

:41:07. > :41:10.honourable gentleman. I couldn't agree the honourable

:41:11. > :41:15.gentleman more and that is why I am here in politics today. It is to try

:41:16. > :41:18.and make that happen, and that is why I think there is many of us on

:41:19. > :41:23.this side of the House are prepared to stand up and be counted because

:41:24. > :41:29.it is right we do so, because our constituencies expect it and I

:41:30. > :41:33.believe that we can and yes, the Chancellor will say, we must

:41:34. > :41:42.eradicate the deficit. Yes, we must, but if we are six months later or

:41:43. > :41:46.dare I say it, a year late, in -- eradicating the deficit, people, I

:41:47. > :41:52.believe, will understand. If you are taking away yes I will give way.

:41:53. > :41:59.On that point you are absolutely right, and the thing that struck me

:42:00. > :42:03.so much in the last week, I have received hundreds of e-mails and

:42:04. > :42:07.letters. When we talk about debt and deficit, it is not the government's

:42:08. > :42:11.debt and deficit, it is the people's debt and deficit. I have

:42:12. > :42:15.had countless letters from wealthy people telling me that this is

:42:16. > :42:19.wrong. It is absolutely right that they are part of this conversation

:42:20. > :42:23.as well about how we repair the damage to our economy. It is their

:42:24. > :42:28.vote as much as the person who is losing money from tax credits. I

:42:29. > :42:32.thank her very much for her intervention. It is right, to coin a

:42:33. > :42:39.phrase, we are in it altogether. You must make sure that when we reduced

:42:40. > :42:43.the deficit, which we are doing very correctly, and we will get to

:42:44. > :42:46.balance the books as ultimately we must balance the books, you cannot

:42:47. > :42:49.go on borrowing forever because it will be our children and

:42:50. > :42:53.grandchildren and great-grandchildren, at this rate,

:42:54. > :42:58.that will pay that off. It has got to be fair as we do it, and I repeat

:42:59. > :43:02.and I do not apologise for repeating the fact that work must pay, and we

:43:03. > :43:10.must make sure that those in low-paid work can carry on their

:43:11. > :43:17.lives. On this issue of government debt, can I remind the government

:43:18. > :43:21.benches, 375 billion of that debt has been created as a consequence of

:43:22. > :43:25.quantitative easing. The Bank of England had to step in and use

:43:26. > :43:33.monetary policy measures because of the failure of fiscal measures by

:43:34. > :43:40.the government. I will get into an argument... I do not wish to get

:43:41. > :43:42.into an argument with him about quantitative easing, I would argue

:43:43. > :43:49.that we would not have the employment we do have at the moment

:43:50. > :43:53.as a result of those tools, we might have overused it but that is an

:43:54. > :43:57.argument for history. That is where we have got the economy smoothly and

:43:58. > :44:00.in the right direction. I make this final plea, and I am sure other

:44:01. > :44:05.members across the whole chamber will make this plea, please,

:44:06. > :44:11.Chancellor, look at this, look at how we mitigate, and how we actually

:44:12. > :44:18.raise the national living wage so that we get people earning more as

:44:19. > :44:22.we take away those tax credits so people will accept that. What we

:44:23. > :44:30.must not do is take away the tax credit because it is not a crime, to

:44:31. > :44:34.be lowly paid. If you really is not. -- it really is not. This is

:44:35. > :44:38.something I fundamentally disagree with and we have got to put it right

:44:39. > :44:45.because the Conservative Party and discovered's reputation is very much

:44:46. > :44:50.at stake. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have to begin by saying

:44:51. > :44:53.it is not normally my business to welcome Conservative contributed to

:44:54. > :44:57.this house, but I have to add knowledge and welcomed the

:44:58. > :45:05.contributions from the Honourable members for Stevenage, Aberconwy and

:45:06. > :45:09.Tiverton and Honasan -- Honasan. I think it goes without saying that

:45:10. > :45:14.the Honourable members on these benches agreed with every thing they

:45:15. > :45:17.had to say, they were brave and welcome contributions, perhaps more

:45:18. > :45:24.welcome on this side than on the Treasury bench. I hope perhaps that

:45:25. > :45:27.is going to probably be the only time I will welcome Conservative

:45:28. > :45:32.contributions in this Parliament! I am sorry that the SNP amendment in

:45:33. > :45:35.my name and my right honourable friends was not accepted, but I'm

:45:36. > :45:42.still very grateful to have further opportunity to set out the SNP's

:45:43. > :45:46.opposition to these cuts. And I will devote a large part of my speech and

:45:47. > :45:51.time this afternoon to address the proposals put forward by the Right

:45:52. > :45:56.Honourable member for Birkenhead. We have much to agree on. His proposals

:45:57. > :46:01.are marginally better than those brought forward by the Chancellor.

:46:02. > :46:04.But they do not protect all low-income households from the

:46:05. > :46:09.Chancellor's ideological wrecking ball to Social Security. I am glad

:46:10. > :46:14.the Right Honourable member has stated that he was putting these

:46:15. > :46:19.forward speculatively, and I hope we can seek a greater consistency, it

:46:20. > :46:23.is fair to say, from the official opposition in challenging the Tory

:46:24. > :46:29.tax credit cuts. As I think we can do much better than this. I think we

:46:30. > :46:33.form a very strong and united opposition on Tuesday because we

:46:34. > :46:40.formed with one voice against these cuts. Since Monday, we have had

:46:41. > :46:43.three different positions, Madam Deputy Speaker, from the Labour

:46:44. > :46:47.Party on tax credits. They pushed a delay in the other place on Monday

:46:48. > :46:53.night but opposed slapping them outright, and then to their credit,

:46:54. > :46:57.joined the SNP completely opposing the cuts on Tuesday, and now today

:46:58. > :47:00.we are presented with a watered down opposition which will steal remove

:47:01. > :47:07.significant amount of money from low-income households. Thank you for

:47:08. > :47:12.giving way. Would he agree with me that having families rely on an

:47:13. > :47:17.unelected chamber to protect their tax credits from this government is

:47:18. > :47:23.a ridiculous situation to be in in 2015? Would he further agree that

:47:24. > :47:30.the interests of Scotland's low-paid would be far better served if all of

:47:31. > :47:38.welfare was devolved to the Scottish Parliament immediately? I welcome

:47:39. > :47:44.his intervention. Under the member's plan, every household under

:47:45. > :47:50.a certain level would continue to lose out. Under his plan, a

:47:51. > :47:58.full-time single earner household with two children and an income of

:47:59. > :48:02.?15,000 would still lose out by ?700 annually. The level by which tax

:48:03. > :48:10.credits were removed thereafter would be 65p in the pound. We are

:48:11. > :48:15.still going to see the budget being balanced on the back of low-income

:48:16. > :48:21.households. I put a number of proposals forward, and I think when

:48:22. > :48:24.he is perhaps in this case a little longer, words like mitigate our

:48:25. > :48:30.words used to unite people with different views, even those that

:48:31. > :48:37.want to see the whole withdrawn. My dad asked him to follow -- might I

:48:38. > :48:44.ask him to follow carefully, I asked him yesterday, would Scotland, even

:48:45. > :48:47.after existing, not waiting for any further devolution, would Scotland

:48:48. > :48:54.be able to use its revenue raising powers to compensate everyone in

:48:55. > :48:58.Scotland should these changes go through? And the reply from the

:48:59. > :49:02.secretary of state was, yes. So are we not going to see in Scotland, the

:49:03. > :49:06.Scottish Government using revenue raising powers to actually not

:49:07. > :49:11.merely put motions on the order paper, but make sure nobody in

:49:12. > :49:18.Scotland discusses from these tax credit cuts? It is worth saying that

:49:19. > :49:21.the SNP is, I would hope the Labour Party is looking to work with the

:49:22. > :49:28.SNP wherever possible to oppose cuts that are out owing to impact on low

:49:29. > :49:32.income families. -- going to impact. I do make my contribution today as

:49:33. > :49:35.best as possible on the basis of consensus, because we need to work

:49:36. > :49:40.together to effectively oppose what is coming down the line from the

:49:41. > :49:44.Conservative government. With regards to the issue of using

:49:45. > :49:47.tax-raising powers, the fiscal framework has not been agreed. We

:49:48. > :49:50.have no idea what is going to be coming forward, we have no idea

:49:51. > :49:57.whether it is going to be possible to raise the taxes in order to do

:49:58. > :50:01.so... So I think it is a slight obfuscation from the Right

:50:02. > :50:04.Honourable member to use that example. The House of Commons

:50:05. > :50:08.library briefing, so we are still going to see the budget being

:50:09. > :50:14.balanced on the backs of low-income households. I hope after today... I

:50:15. > :50:20.thank him for giving way, he will remind the House that the Scottish

:50:21. > :50:22.Government has already spent ?100 million in mitigating existing

:50:23. > :50:29.attacks on the poor from this government. Absolutely, ?100 million

:50:30. > :50:34.on the bedroom tax and a further ?40 million in ensuring that the council

:50:35. > :50:40.tax cuts did not affect low income households in Scotland as they have

:50:41. > :50:45.done in England. I hope that after today, Labour will return to where

:50:46. > :50:50.it was earlier this week, when it stood side-by-side with the SNP in

:50:51. > :50:53.opposing Tory cuts. The SNP will oppose the ideological, regressive

:50:54. > :50:57.and punitive tax credit cuts with every opportunity open to us and we

:50:58. > :51:01.do so again today because we realise the damage these will cause to

:51:02. > :51:05.family incomes, levels of poverty and child poverty in these isles,

:51:06. > :51:09.and to social cohesion in every community in Scotland. The Scottish

:51:10. > :51:14.Government analysis task asked today at First Minister's Questions in the

:51:15. > :51:21.Scottish Parliament shows that 250,000 households in Scotland will

:51:22. > :51:24.lose on average ?1500 from April. And thereafter, with the changes

:51:25. > :51:31.fully in demented, this could rise to an average of ?3000 per

:51:32. > :51:32.household. These changes are fundamentally regressive,

:51:33. > :51:37.disproportionately targeting those in low-income households and posh

:51:38. > :51:44.and -- punish them for what this government's ideological obsession

:51:45. > :51:47.with austerity. The SNP stood on a manifesto which was fundamentally

:51:48. > :51:51.anti-austerities but stood on a responsible path for bringing down

:51:52. > :51:54.the deficit. We have argued for a 0.5% increase in spending per year

:51:55. > :52:02.in this government which would have released money to invest in capital

:52:03. > :52:04.projects and another measure to narrow it income in quality. Our

:52:05. > :52:12.plan would have brought the budget deficit down to 2% at the end of the

:52:13. > :52:17.Parliament but at the same time protecting public senses. It was

:52:18. > :52:19.backed by an IMF report from June this year that highlighted that

:52:20. > :52:29.reducing income in a quality not only leads to reduced -- income

:52:30. > :52:35.inequality not only leads to reduced inequality but also improves growth.

:52:36. > :52:39.I am pushed for time, I know my colleagues are looking to get in. As

:52:40. > :52:43.well as being socially destructive, as an extension of the IMF's

:52:44. > :52:47.thinking, this policy is economically incompetent as well.

:52:48. > :52:52.There was no mention of these wholesale cuts to tax credit in the

:52:53. > :52:54.Conservative manifesto. There were just two references to tax credits,

:52:55. > :52:59.neither referenced anything like these proposals we have in front of

:53:00. > :53:02.us now. I reiterate that this was the central plank of this

:53:03. > :53:07.Chancellor's burst budget since the election. He has based all of his

:53:08. > :53:11.sons on the back of these cuts. They would have merited a passing

:53:12. > :53:18.reference or at least a hint on what down the line. The Chancellor's

:53:19. > :53:24.summer budget was a prized example of offices -- obfuscation,

:53:25. > :53:28.suggesting that these cuts in tax credits would be mitigated by a rise

:53:29. > :53:36.in the living wage is nonsense, the full rise in the national living

:53:37. > :53:40.wage but not coming until four years after the tax credit cuts. Even when

:53:41. > :53:48.it does come in, it still will not mitigate the tax credit cuts. Why

:53:49. > :53:54.did the government decided to undermine and sabotage the real

:53:55. > :53:56.minimum living wage campaign by labelling their minimum wage as

:53:57. > :54:00.such? I would like to address some of the language that has been used

:54:01. > :54:05.over this issue. Many of us have been focusing on impacting working

:54:06. > :54:09.household and lambasting the fact that many working households will be

:54:10. > :54:16.dragged into the body from the tax credit cuts. I have been as guilty

:54:17. > :54:20.as others for this as I attempt to show that the government's rhetoric

:54:21. > :54:25.on making work pay is a sham when we look at these cuts. There should be

:54:26. > :54:31.no distinction for working or known working households who are in

:54:32. > :54:35.poverty or are living in low incomes, we cannot be dragged into

:54:36. > :54:40.the rhetoric of deserving or non-deserving poor, nobody deserves

:54:41. > :54:43.to be living in poverty. Describing hard-working families or the working

:54:44. > :54:47.poor is unhelpful, we do not know the circumstances by which these

:54:48. > :54:51.people are unable to work, and we should not be judging them in the

:54:52. > :54:57.way that some on the oppositions benches are, where, thereby the

:54:58. > :55:00.grace of God go I. None of us know where we may find ourselves in the

:55:01. > :55:05.circumstances when we are out of work. We should be working to

:55:06. > :55:07.address poverty whenever it is manifested and whenever it will be

:55:08. > :55:14.worsened as it will be by this Chancellor's tax credit cuts. It is

:55:15. > :55:20.a privilege to speak in this debate. I1 of the co-sponsors of the debate

:55:21. > :55:25.but the entire credit of the idea it belongs to the right honourable

:55:26. > :55:30.member for Birkenhead. He rightly identified that what we needed was a

:55:31. > :55:35.cross-party, less partisan, as it turns out, non-binding debate, which

:55:36. > :55:40.will allow everybody to explore these issues properly in the

:55:41. > :55:43.national interest without being feted by feelings of joining one

:55:44. > :55:48.side or another in the playground of politics. The result has been very

:55:49. > :55:54.good, this has been the best debate so far on this subject of a number.

:55:55. > :55:59.But it does fall on us all to be honest about it. This policy was a

:56:00. > :56:02.mistake. One can only think that, because I do not think anybody in

:56:03. > :56:08.any party in this house would deliberately, have impoverished the

:56:09. > :56:16.working poor, with dependent families. I do differentiate in this

:56:17. > :56:20.context, I am afraid. That was simply not intended, I am sure. The

:56:21. > :56:25.problem was, it was compounded by the... Not for the moment. It was

:56:26. > :56:30.compounded by the method taken of taking eight statutory instruments,

:56:31. > :56:34.so it is not amendable, and not having enough information, not

:56:35. > :56:37.having a proper impact statement. For five members of this debate so

:56:38. > :56:43.far have made that point. Had it been amendable and it had been prime

:56:44. > :56:46.legislation and there was proper information available from the

:56:47. > :56:49.government, this would not have got to the House of Lords in its current

:56:50. > :56:53.form, it would have been reformed in the south and that is what should

:56:54. > :56:58.have happened. I subscribe to the government's wished to others the

:56:59. > :57:02.books by 2020, I think that is an eminently sensible and responsible

:57:03. > :57:06.game but I also subscribe to the view that we need to protect the

:57:07. > :57:08.poor at all costs. The problem is, how do we identify what the policy

:57:09. > :57:17.does? I trieded to find some example for

:57:18. > :57:23.which he could assess both sides of the argument. I offer my thanks by

:57:24. > :57:27.the way, to the Chancellor's PPS, in helping with that, who was very

:57:28. > :57:34.helpful. I was able to put some of the points he made in defence of the

:57:35. > :57:38.policy to the library. I will pick out a couple of examples, as to what

:57:39. > :57:43.the impact of this policy was. The worst case example I could find was

:57:44. > :57:48.that of a single working single parent, with two children, who

:57:49. > :57:54.without the mitigating effectses could have been ?2,000 a year worse

:57:55. > :57:59.off. In virtually every year, an unbelievable sum of money to take

:58:00. > :58:03.off a family that is already poor. Under the circumstances, in which

:58:04. > :58:12.they are eligible for the mitigation, in particular, housing

:58:13. > :58:17.benefit, that can be reduced, reduced, to 700-round about ?700.

:58:18. > :58:21.The fine detail is unreliable. But ?700 virtually every year again for

:58:22. > :58:28.the next four or five years. Remember, the great battle when the

:58:29. > :58:33.other side was in power, over the 10% rate, was over sums a quarter of

:58:34. > :58:36.that. The great battles over the poll tax were of sums that size. I

:58:37. > :58:43.remember them too well. The impact on a family which is already on the

:58:44. > :58:49.poverty line by definition, is unspeakable. And unthinkable. I

:58:50. > :58:53.speak as somebody who grew up in a poorer era, I can remember children

:58:54. > :58:56.being hungry on Friday when the bills were too big or it was too

:58:57. > :59:03.cold and the heating costs were too high. So that is what we are dealing

:59:04. > :59:12.with here. There are three possible strategies. Before he moves on to

:59:13. > :59:18.his three possible strategies he touched on the housing benefit. Is

:59:19. > :59:20.that not again of the issues with this policy somebody receiving

:59:21. > :59:23.housing ebenefit would see mitigation in the current system.

:59:24. > :59:29.Somebody who has bought their own property would not? That is exactly

:59:30. > :59:35.right. PMQ thinksome who has their own house are better off. Many in

:59:36. > :59:41.this category are people who have fallen into it and get out later.

:59:42. > :59:44.It's a serious consideration, ?2,000, it is an untenable thought

:59:45. > :59:48.that somebody with two children to support and on less than 20,00

:59:49. > :59:57.pounds a year themselves, so I am going to separate the strategy into

:59:58. > :00:02.three, the roam for Birkenhead said four. One possible is we shift the

:00:03. > :00:07.burden elsewhere. Lord Lawson said the same in the House of Lords,

:00:08. > :00:11.during the debate there. That is possible. But I am not going

:00:12. > :00:17.to, elaborate on it because I think there are better ways. The second

:00:18. > :00:23.one is to find savings elsewhere. Now, here I did very much disagree

:00:24. > :00:26.with the right honourable gentleman for Birkenhead, in his almost

:00:27. > :00:30.encouragement of the Chancellor to go hunting for the pensioner pound,

:00:31. > :00:34.because it won't be today's pensioner's pound he will go hunting

:00:35. > :00:39.for it is tomorrow's. By taking out the, taking out the tax benefits of

:00:40. > :00:43.investing in pensions and undermining what we have left of our

:00:44. > :00:47.private pension scheme. I am protected, virtually all my pension