14/12/2015

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:17. > :00:23.Order. Questions to be Secretary of State for Communities and Local

:00:24. > :00:28.Government. Question number one, Mr Speaker. Hear, hear!

:00:29. > :00:39.Thank you Mr Speaker. The northern powerhouse is running across the

:00:40. > :00:42.departments. The northern powerhouse investment fund, ?400 billion, the

:00:43. > :00:45.devolution deals that are being agreed right across the north of

:00:46. > :00:48.England and of course the doubling of the enterprise lands in the

:00:49. > :00:53.northern powerhouse that were announced at the spending review by

:00:54. > :00:58.my right, Noble friend. Earlier this year the government invested over

:00:59. > :01:03.?113 million in high-performance computing in my constituency. A

:01:04. > :01:09.joint venture between the science and technology for facilities

:01:10. > :01:12.Council and IBM, bringing high wage job. Does my right honourable friend

:01:13. > :01:16.agree that investment in technology and science is key to be growth of

:01:17. > :01:21.the northern powerhouse? I command my honourable friend's important

:01:22. > :01:26.significant work in this area. Is a passionate advocate for this. This

:01:27. > :01:29.is one more example of the investment does government is

:01:30. > :01:32.putting in in order to build the northern powerhouse to read powers

:01:33. > :01:37.our economy. -- rebalance our economy. Information spending is

:01:38. > :01:40.being it protected and we are investing in the economic growth of

:01:41. > :01:45.the future and this is a great example of that. He deserves

:01:46. > :01:51.commendation for the work he has done in delivering it. When is the

:01:52. > :01:56.government going to stop patronizing the North? We are a powerhouse. You

:01:57. > :01:58.must be investment in it infrastructure. We are the people

:01:59. > :02:01.who still make things in the country. We make the wealth of this

:02:02. > :02:07.country. Many of people in this part of the world live parasitically on

:02:08. > :02:14.our efforts! Stop patronizing! Start investing! I welcome the honourable

:02:15. > :02:17.member's enthusiasm for the northern powerhouse as a project. This

:02:18. > :02:21.government is recognising the potential of the North to drive our

:02:22. > :02:24.economy. The difference that the North can make if it is invested in

:02:25. > :02:27.and crucially if people in the North are given real control over their

:02:28. > :02:31.own future. That is what we are doing and what the devolution agenda

:02:32. > :02:35.is about and what the investment I have spoken about are about. We will

:02:36. > :02:42.deliver it and big a big difference to his constituents and mine. Thank

:02:43. > :02:44.you Mr Speaker. On this question, can he tell me what sport he is

:02:45. > :02:49.giving to small businesses within the northern powerhouse? Should they

:02:50. > :02:55.benefit from all procurements that are coming from that? The northern

:02:56. > :02:58.powerhouse investment fund, that ?400 million, will be targeted

:02:59. > :03:01.specifically at small and medium enterprises. We've got growth hubs

:03:02. > :03:07.across the North which are driving out investment. You will see our big

:03:08. > :03:09.industries succeed and thrive the economy, but small and medium

:03:10. > :03:14.enterprises are important as well. We want to invest and give local

:03:15. > :03:21.people the support they need. Thank him for his answer. He will be aware

:03:22. > :03:35.that Scottish government procure compared to the UK government's

:03:36. > :03:38.four. -- 26%. City deals can be drivers for growth. I welcome those

:03:39. > :03:40.that have already been agreed and we will continue to have talks

:03:41. > :03:44.including with some of the great cities and city regions in Scotland

:03:45. > :03:47.about where we can go further and what more we can do. I hope that we

:03:48. > :03:50.can and do course in Livermore because we can already see the

:03:51. > :04:00.difference those deals are making -- Livermore. On behalf of my

:04:01. > :04:04.constituency we think those who are helping now, those areas in the

:04:05. > :04:09.north, so badly reflected -- affected by the recent flooding. The

:04:10. > :04:15.LNS recently reported that the North is falling further behind as a

:04:16. > :04:20.result of poor investment -- ONS. It is getting worse. The average

:04:21. > :04:26.business now produces ?42,000 a year undervalue while in the Northeast

:04:27. > :04:32.the averages on ?18,000. Any place of more cuts will he now includes

:04:33. > :04:38.afflicted Dominic specific -- will he include specific is apples later

:04:39. > :04:41.this week? The right honourable member raises the important point

:04:42. > :04:45.that our E economy has for too long been unbalanced. The northern

:04:46. > :04:55.powerhouse as a project is to invest an additional weakening Mark --

:04:56. > :04:58.answer weekend, the potential. We will see that that investment is

:04:59. > :05:01.going in, but more importantly going hand-in-hand with local control,

:05:02. > :05:04.giving it to the people who know best how to grow the economies of

:05:05. > :05:12.the North because they live in them and they are part the. -- they are

:05:13. > :05:19.part of them. Stephan Phillips. Where is the fellow? Mr Andy

:05:20. > :05:23.McDonald. Thank you Mr Speaker. I will answer questions three and six

:05:24. > :05:27.together. Authorities have continued to provide an excellent service

:05:28. > :05:32.whilst making sensible savings. The number of incidents is 42% lower

:05:33. > :05:37.than ten years ago and fire deaths and injuries are at an all-time low.

:05:38. > :05:45.The existing grant distribution formula disproportionately penalizes

:05:46. > :05:50.authorities such as Cleveland, regardless of industrial risk and

:05:51. > :05:53.other performance. Can he explain what assessment will be made to

:05:54. > :05:57.identify less efficient authorities who can make surveys and more

:05:58. > :06:00.importantly what capacity these authorities have to make further

:06:01. > :06:06.savings? I'm grateful for his question. Can I use it as an

:06:07. > :06:09.opportunity to pay tribute to the magnificent work of firefighters,

:06:10. > :06:13.who with the other emergency services, can counsel staff

:06:14. > :06:17.engineers and Armed Forces and the whole community have worked

:06:18. > :06:20.tirelessly to protect and help people during the flooding in the

:06:21. > :06:25.north of England. On the particular question that the honourable

:06:26. > :06:29.gentleman asked, fire authorities have said had spending reductions of

:06:30. > :06:32.less than local authorities over the last five years of copy at a copy as

:06:33. > :06:37.given in the figures of how they performed very well and managed

:06:38. > :06:44.those cuts. The National Audit Office has said that the picture is

:06:45. > :06:47.one of financial health. What I would say in relation to his

:06:48. > :06:53.particular case is that the spending power in Cleveland for example, for

:06:54. > :06:57.the fire authority, is ?48 ahead of the population compared to ?37 that

:06:58. > :07:03.is the national average. That is reflected in the formula. I'm sure

:07:04. > :07:06.the Minister will know he has ornamented over the years there have

:07:07. > :07:14.been cuts to the fire service. And he has mentioned the point that fire

:07:15. > :07:17.service... Protect the work they are doing in places like Cumberland. So

:07:18. > :07:20.that should be working on decent wages. What guarantee can he make

:07:21. > :07:28.that local fire and rescue services will not be negatively impacted if

:07:29. > :07:33.taken over by local PC sees? As he knows there is a consultation out

:07:34. > :07:38.across the country on whether we should remove some of the barriers

:07:39. > :07:41.to a better local collaboration between all of the blue light

:07:42. > :07:47.services. That is to be initiated locally. It is to make it possible

:07:48. > :07:53.if they want to. And for the purpose of providing a better service if

:07:54. > :07:55.those changes would help. Can the Secretary of State confirm to the

:07:56. > :07:58.House that greater collaboration between the fire services and the

:07:59. > :08:04.police services, necessary to reduce costs, will not indent this tension

:08:05. > :08:08.between firefighters and police going forward? I can confirm that.

:08:09. > :08:13.They are two students think services -- two distinct services. I think as

:08:14. > :08:16.he would hit New Orleans, the opportunity to work together should

:08:17. > :08:24.be taken when ever that can make a difference to people on the ground

:08:25. > :08:29.-- I think as he would notice. And argument particular to local

:08:30. > :08:36.authorities. With the encouraged Wilshire counsel, conservative

:08:37. > :08:41.control, but I doubt we don't encourage the fire service who have

:08:42. > :08:46.been negotiating with them instead to seek to find common errors of

:08:47. > :08:52.cooperation from the Council? I say, that is an answer for the services

:08:53. > :08:55.locally. The consultation proposes requiring that there is discussions

:08:56. > :08:58.taking place, but what they conclude is up to them.

:08:59. > :09:05.Hear, hear! Thank you Mr Speaker. I would like

:09:06. > :09:11.to pay tribute to my response to be fire and rescue services to the

:09:12. > :09:15.floods in Cumbria and other northern areas. The service are rescuing

:09:16. > :09:21.people who have been at Walter from flooding High streets and homes and

:09:22. > :09:26.rescuing livestock, solidifying damage to rural communities. Yet all

:09:27. > :09:30.those services who are responding have had cuts over the last five

:09:31. > :09:37.years. We've lost nearly 7500 fighters, that's one in eight. And

:09:38. > :09:42.over 12% in the local fire rescue services. Be fire services is a key

:09:43. > :09:46.junction now. Is not safe effective or efficient to keep cutting

:09:47. > :09:49.resources. Does the Secretary of State agree that any further cuts

:09:50. > :09:52.will further the damage the fire and rescue services ability to meet the

:09:53. > :09:58.risk in local major incidents such as the loop recent floods? And will

:09:59. > :10:01.he commit to add the resources so be fire and rescue services can

:10:02. > :10:04.continue to contribute to national resilience on the scale and at the

:10:05. > :10:07.speed that the public aspect? Hear, hear!

:10:08. > :10:12.I draw the honourable ladies attention to be report that was

:10:13. > :10:17.published quite recently. It says the picture of today's is one of

:10:18. > :10:20.financial health and says that fire authorities have not changed

:10:21. > :10:27.emergency response standards as a result of budget cuts. The evidence

:10:28. > :10:35.is when all but one fire authority is increased its reserves during the

:10:36. > :10:39.period from 2010-2015, by 67% in real terms, this tells me that the

:10:40. > :10:49.fire services are coping well with the reductions that they have been

:10:50. > :10:54.made. The Staffordshire fire authority I should say decided to

:10:55. > :10:57.build a brand-new fire station but reduced the appliances to a half of

:10:58. > :11:00.what they presently are. Would he work with Matthew Ellis, the police

:11:01. > :11:05.and crime commissioner and Staffordshire, who has good positive

:11:06. > :11:09.plans to combine the police and fire service for the betterment of the

:11:10. > :11:12.whole County? Hear, hear! That is the purpose of the

:11:13. > :11:16.consultation that we have embarked on to remove the barriers that have

:11:17. > :11:19.prevented that kind of collaboration. I'm interested to see

:11:20. > :11:25.what he has to say about the proposals and Staffordshire. Thank

:11:26. > :11:31.you Mr Speaker. Minister Brendan Lewis. With permissions I will

:11:32. > :11:38.answer questions four, 13, and 18 together. We have delivered 270,000

:11:39. > :11:44.affordable homes since 2010. Specifically, the 2011-15 affordable

:11:45. > :11:52.homes around delivered 192,000, it exceeding expectations -23,000 homes

:11:53. > :11:59.-- 193,000 homes. Is not surprising he is growing about this am a but I

:12:00. > :12:04.can assure him that ?250,000 is not considered affordable. Will be

:12:05. > :12:07.definition of affordability be changed based on the income in that

:12:08. > :12:15.market rate? I will say she is referring to be massive Orr maximum

:12:16. > :12:21.price. -- the maximum price. Want to take off that 20% discount we are

:12:22. > :12:25.going to be doing, it actually helps buying home affordable for more

:12:26. > :12:31.people again. Hear, hear! In Worcester, up courting to Council

:12:32. > :12:35.figures 216 new affordable homes in the last financial year, a record of

:12:36. > :12:37.any year since 1997. It was delivered by the conservative

:12:38. > :12:49.administration the year after a labour and live them -- Liberal

:12:50. > :12:52.Democrats delivered fewer. A good example of a good well-worn local

:12:53. > :12:55.authority delivering housing for its local constituents. We are

:12:56. > :12:58.determined to stand by those authorities and work with them. That

:12:59. > :13:04.is why in the spending review I am delighted that ?1 billion was given

:13:05. > :13:10.to deliver 4000 affordable homes across the country -- ?8 billion.

:13:11. > :13:16.Given the property crisis in London, exceeded half ?1 million, first time

:13:17. > :13:19.buyers will need to learn that ?70,000 is needed to buy their first

:13:20. > :13:23.home. Does the Minister consider this affordable? And is not what is

:13:24. > :13:27.he going to do to put homeownership in the reach of the many and not

:13:28. > :13:30.just the few at the top? And that the honourable gentleman is now

:13:31. > :13:37.joining our cause and wanted to make sure we build more homes that are

:13:38. > :13:41.affordable for people to buy. 67% six 2010 is a good start. We want to

:13:42. > :13:45.go further. That is why we want to deliver more, giving people a wider

:13:46. > :13:52.opportunity to get onto the housing market. Also homes we have helped to

:13:53. > :13:57.buy records in just a 5% deposit. Some members opposite believe that

:13:58. > :14:02.homes can be made more affordable, for example in London, by returning

:14:03. > :14:05.to be bad old days of rent control. Can I ask the ministers and many

:14:06. > :14:09.others in this house that the government has no intention of

:14:10. > :14:15.giving any future mayor powers to be able to reintroduce rent control in

:14:16. > :14:19.London? Hear, hear! As my honourable friend will know we

:14:20. > :14:21.are keen to see more and more devolution and localism of power,

:14:22. > :14:26.but I am happy to say to him that this government will not allow it to

:14:27. > :14:31.fall into a trap after the party opposite encouraged me to do. The

:14:32. > :14:34.reality is that rent control drives the pie down and actually ends up

:14:35. > :14:39.looking rents up. So we are against and will not be doing that under

:14:40. > :14:42.this government. Hear, hear! Thank you Mr Speaker. The Minister

:14:43. > :14:45.has talked about extra housing investment. I wouldn't want him or

:14:46. > :14:49.the chancellor who has set the same thing to mislead the House. After

:14:50. > :14:56.the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, the annual housing investment for

:14:57. > :15:02.the government will be ?1.7 million. -- one 7p. At the money inherited in

:15:03. > :15:12.2010 from labour it was the 1p. Not an increase, but a cuts. Not a

:15:13. > :15:15.doubling, but almost a have. Maybe this is why his government has built

:15:16. > :15:20.30,000 fewer affordable homes to buy Varosha home ownership than Labour

:15:21. > :15:24.did in the last five years Hear, hear!

:15:25. > :15:27.I'm somewhat surprised the honourable gentleman raised the

:15:28. > :15:31.question. The lowest level of housing in this country since the

:15:32. > :15:34.1920s, as well be Chancellor has not done under this government is now

:15:35. > :15:39.seeing the biggest building programme in about 30 years. He's

:15:40. > :15:43.wrong on the big picture as well. Under our national affordable

:15:44. > :15:47.housing programme the number of homes built each year was bigger

:15:48. > :15:52.than his under the last government. The hard truth is that for so many

:15:53. > :15:56.people, the dreams of buying their own homes are totally unaffordable

:15:57. > :16:01.and out of reach. Now he plans to fiddle the figures again by changing

:16:02. > :16:10.the definition of affordable to include so-called starter homes that

:16:11. > :16:15.can be sold at up to ?450,000. So with the at least agree with Labour

:16:16. > :16:18.and the building societies Association that the discount on

:16:19. > :16:24.these starter homes should be permanent. Not a windfall cash at

:16:25. > :16:29.the end of five years, but there for the next generation of first time

:16:30. > :16:35.buyers as well. Hear, hear! Afraid the honourable gentleman, I

:16:36. > :16:38.have a big disagreement. He seems to want to stop Property owners having

:16:39. > :16:40.the right to deal with their property in the way that any other

:16:41. > :16:44.property owner would. We want to support people to buy their own home

:16:45. > :16:47.and that is why we want to keep building more for people at that

:16:48. > :16:51.discount for first time buyers and we are proud that under this, the

:16:52. > :16:57.conservative led Coalition, we saw an increase in affordable homes

:16:58. > :17:00.unlike the loss of 420,000 we saw in the years of Labour. Question number

:17:01. > :17:08.five, Mr Speaker. The Autumn Statement did come from

:17:09. > :17:13.?1 billion for over 400,000 affordable homes including the

:17:14. > :17:19.shared ownership homes and ?2.3 billion towards delivering 200,000

:17:20. > :17:24.starter homes. And held to by steam loss on the 1st of December, means

:17:25. > :17:28.it has been extended through 2021. That means just a 40% equity is

:17:29. > :17:35.being provided by the government for people in London and that will be

:17:36. > :17:41.launched in 2016. I was pleased to recently attend the opening of

:17:42. > :17:44.prospect housing. New development of 11 Apartments meant for shared

:17:45. > :17:48.ownership and I will cover the notions introduced to expand this

:17:49. > :17:52.being. Can ask the Minister what steps he is taking to encourage

:17:53. > :17:55.local authority to build more shared ownership housing and ensure these

:17:56. > :18:03.developments utilised Brownfield sites was back very happy. We will

:18:04. > :18:05.relax on the move. Local authority restrictions to shared ownership to

:18:06. > :18:11.make it easier for people to find the right home for their families.

:18:12. > :18:15.Brownfield also has limited housing and we are committed to ensure that

:18:16. > :18:23.those sites have planned commission housing by 2020. Number seven.

:18:24. > :18:27.Since 2010 we have delivered to under 70,000 affordable homes,

:18:28. > :18:38.including nearly 200,000 homes for rent. Delivering more homes to every

:18:39. > :18:47.parent who have and investment. Someone 7p to deliver affordable

:18:48. > :18:50.renting homes. Ministers attention to the question I actually asked

:18:51. > :18:55.which is about social renting housing not affordable. Will he

:18:56. > :19:00.confirm that in last moment the only social renting housing built would

:19:01. > :19:03.have been funded before the 2010 General election. And there is no

:19:04. > :19:06.funding at all in this Parliament for social rented housing. Together

:19:07. > :19:12.with the Right to Buy for housing association tenants on the sell-outs

:19:13. > :19:16.of no value properties, to become a nations of those policies mean fewer

:19:17. > :19:19.social renting homes available for people and longer waits on the

:19:20. > :19:25.waiting list for people who want one? Actually there was a 70%

:19:26. > :19:27.increase in social housing waiting list under the last Labour

:19:28. > :19:31.administration. It has actually fallen thanks to flick civilities

:19:32. > :19:36.we've created and effect we more social housing built in the last

:19:37. > :19:44.Parliament than the lads 13 years of labour before that. I encourage

:19:45. > :19:50.local authorities to go forward building more. Thank you Mr Speaker.

:19:51. > :19:53.The building of genuinely affordable homes for social rent and this

:19:54. > :19:59.country has plummeted. No matter how much the Minister tries to dress up

:20:00. > :20:03.the government's doings, his own figures are clear and speak for

:20:04. > :20:09.themselves. In 2010 there were more than 38,000 homes built for social

:20:10. > :20:13.rent, but by 2014 - 15, the figure was a truly dismal line priced at

:20:14. > :20:18.500, with the housing and planning build making it virtually impossible

:20:19. > :20:25.to build homes for social rent. And eight disgraceful sneaking of

:20:26. > :20:28.proposals for local authority tennis. What does this government

:20:29. > :20:31.have against people who rely on social housing to make ends meet was

:20:32. > :20:39.ONS is the Minister going to address the huge shortfall in social

:20:40. > :20:44.housing? I would I withdraw the honourable lady's to a few moments

:20:45. > :20:48.ago when I outlined the last five years of this party's government and

:20:49. > :20:52.that it oversaw more being built in the entire 13 years of labour.

:20:53. > :20:57.Actually, affordable housing drop by 24,000 homes. Still over ?2 billion

:20:58. > :21:00.ahead be required ability for local authorities to go and build more. We

:21:01. > :21:04.have been very clear that we will help everybody who wants to aspire

:21:05. > :21:06.to on their own home through the extension of Right to Buy and

:21:07. > :21:14.delivering starter homes across the country. Viguera the honourable

:21:15. > :21:17.member would be aware of the services of this department are

:21:18. > :21:21.devolved in Scotland. Therefore there are consequences of spending

:21:22. > :21:23.decisions that are made as affecting this department and he's got his

:21:24. > :21:28.government as a result of the spending review. Will see a 14%

:21:29. > :21:33.increase and the capital budget. A statement the Chancellor confirmed

:21:34. > :21:38.extension of Right to Buy for housing associations affected for

:21:39. > :21:42.privatizing them. We are aware that this has decimated social housing

:21:43. > :21:48.stock across the UK, something that the Scottish government has

:21:49. > :21:53.recognised in Scotland. The government, so-called one-for-one

:21:54. > :21:55.replacement, under the new Right to Buy hasn't been funded by the

:21:56. > :21:59.government funding. With the Minister explained what effect these

:22:00. > :22:03.proposals have an housing in Scotland? The honourable member is

:22:04. > :22:06.quite right to point out the at least one-to-one replacement that is

:22:07. > :22:10.the intention of this policy which is welcome by those of us on this

:22:11. > :22:16.side of the House. The spending review announcements will have a

:22:17. > :22:19.violent consequences impact on the government of Scotland's capital

:22:20. > :22:23.budget. That amounts to ?1.9 billion added to the what they already have

:22:24. > :22:26.to ensure the Scottish Government is able to deliver on the things they

:22:27. > :22:30.want to do for Scotland just as we want to deliver on our objectives

:22:31. > :22:32.and manifesto priorities in England and Wales. Hear, hear!

:22:33. > :22:40.Question number ten. Thank you Mr Speaker. There are

:22:41. > :22:42.strict test to protect people and property from flooding with all

:22:43. > :22:45.local councils are expected to follow. These including ensuring new

:22:46. > :22:53.development does not increase flood risk elsewhere. Grateful to be

:22:54. > :22:59.minister for that response. It is my experience that the environment

:23:00. > :23:06.agency often does object planning applications, even in flood areas.

:23:07. > :23:09.Especially where other areas could be caused to flow. Will be secretary

:23:10. > :23:12.of state actually look at the policies and the practice of the

:23:13. > :23:18.environment agency in this respect? I certainly will do what my

:23:19. > :23:21.honourable friend recommends. I recognised his constituency

:23:22. > :23:26.experience and indeed his expertise as Vice Chairman of the all party

:23:27. > :23:35.group on this matter. It is the case that national planning policy in the

:23:36. > :23:38.MPPF says that any new application in an area of flooding risk must

:23:39. > :23:42.demonstrate that the area will be safe for its lifetime and will not

:23:43. > :23:45.increase flood risk elsewhere and will possibly reduce it overall.

:23:46. > :23:51.That test had to be passed for the development to be committed. Thank

:23:52. > :23:54.you Mr Speaker. At the time to recognise the fantastic work that

:23:55. > :24:01.firefighters do invocations of flood. Statutory duty for fire and

:24:02. > :24:08.rescue services to respond to flooding? Hear, hear!

:24:09. > :24:11.I'm grateful. He offers me to pay tribute to the fantastic work that

:24:12. > :24:14.is being done in the north of England, but has been done already

:24:15. > :24:18.years in times of emergency like this right across the country. I

:24:19. > :24:25.will remind the honourable gentleman that any discussions we will have to

:24:26. > :24:29.I will consider the point he has but forward. In my constituency we have

:24:30. > :24:34.a bridge that has been partially washed away and the roles aside it

:24:35. > :24:37.have been caved in because of flooding. Will my honourable friend

:24:38. > :24:40.give us assurances that everything can be done as quickly as possible

:24:41. > :24:53.to make sure this report is put back together as if it's an ad vital

:24:54. > :24:58.place. I appreciate him giving that to his community in response to

:24:59. > :25:03.conditions that have been faced. We are determined to ensure that things

:25:04. > :25:06.are right. We are working closely with the authorities across the

:25:07. > :25:11.areas. The funds that have been made available so far will allow the

:25:12. > :25:14.assessment of what is required for restoration to be made, but then I

:25:15. > :25:20.will be followed with the repairs themselves. Is the secretary of

:25:21. > :25:24.state think it is right that the government are helping new people by

:25:25. > :25:27.their own home through the Help to Buy scheme, but those very same

:25:28. > :25:31.people will not be eligible for the flood insurance and the flood rate

:25:32. > :25:37.that this government is introducing and rent April? The negotiation with

:25:38. > :25:40.the insurance companies has been very clear that we want to make sure

:25:41. > :25:45.that everyone in the country can benefit from the insurance that

:25:46. > :25:56.gives them the peace of mind when they buy a new property.

:25:57. > :26:00.Over 1700 communities are preparing neighbourhood plans to shake of

:26:01. > :26:06.elements and their area. Diesel form part of the development plan and be

:26:07. > :26:12.used to develop application. The reform will speed up and simplify

:26:13. > :26:15.the process and allow people to leave my kitties to better engage in

:26:16. > :26:19.local planning. The Minister will be aware that the planning Inspector

:26:20. > :26:25.has deferred a decision on housing development plan. The ad has actual

:26:26. > :26:33.shirt counsel to come back after a fuel query. What measures will be in

:26:34. > :26:35.place to make sure that we do not have aggressive applications against

:26:36. > :26:43.the best interest of the savagery of the town? Having a 5 euros land

:26:44. > :26:49.supply and plays put local planning authorities and a place to resist

:26:50. > :26:56.unwanted development copy furthermore, national planning...

:26:57. > :27:02.I'm sure her local authority is well aware of that, and will make

:27:03. > :27:11.decisions. Last Thursday as business questions, I raised the case of

:27:12. > :27:17.something in my constituency where a small property that is now privately

:27:18. > :27:22.rented has been converted into a house of multiple occupation, as

:27:23. > :27:27.part of the Asylum dispersal programme. Does the Minister

:27:28. > :27:32.understand the dismay of the neighbours of this property, that

:27:33. > :27:38.the owners are able to circumvent landing and license in regulations

:27:39. > :27:44.because there were only be five people house that property? I cannot

:27:45. > :27:48.comment on an individual case without knowing all of the facts,

:27:49. > :27:52.but I would refer the honourable subsuming to look at the measures

:27:53. > :27:59.that we are breaking through in the housing and planning bill,

:28:00. > :28:03.particularly dealing with landlords. The interpretations of neighbourhood

:28:04. > :28:09.plans has been causing difficulties in the beautiful village of Hook

:28:10. > :28:13.Norton. With the Minister meet with me to discuss how the can ensure

:28:14. > :28:22.that the neighbourhood plan is adhered to? And the great of them is

:28:23. > :28:28.that a Hook Norton is, it is a home to a fantastic brewery. I do hear

:28:29. > :28:31.what he is saying and I will meet with her or I am sure my horrible

:28:32. > :28:39.friend, the housing and planning Minister well. -- honourable. The

:28:40. > :28:46.communities in New York need a family housing built, on the York

:28:47. > :28:50.Central side. We hear that high-value flats will be placed on

:28:51. > :28:57.that side, will the Minister listened to local communities to

:28:58. > :29:00.ensure that their voices prioritise? I think the government has

:29:01. > :29:04.demonstrated that we want local people to have a strong voice to

:29:05. > :29:09.neighbourhood planning and in relation to the issue, the Honorable

:29:10. > :29:12.Lady mentioned, I am sure that is on the record and her local planning

:29:13. > :29:16.authorities should be listening to the concerns and the comments from

:29:17. > :29:21.local residents. In the council areas where there is no adopted

:29:22. > :29:26.local plan, local communities are continually let down by the planning

:29:27. > :29:31.process. Would he give consideration in these circumstances to allow the

:29:32. > :29:36.objectors the right to appeal? I think my Honorable friend makes a

:29:37. > :29:41.very good point. By 2017, we will make sure that all areas have a

:29:42. > :29:45.local planning place, and the housing and planning bill sets out

:29:46. > :29:53.in some detail how we will achieve that. Question number 12. Thank you,

:29:54. > :29:58.the government allow with the Scottish Government is working with

:29:59. > :30:03.the Highland Council to identify opportunities for Highland city

:30:04. > :30:07.region deal. Those discussions are ongoing, they are positive and

:30:08. > :30:10.constructive, I hope they will lead to the outcome that I'm sure the

:30:11. > :30:14.honourable member hopes for. They are right to raise the issue. They

:30:15. > :30:19.are a great driver for growth and help us realise economic potential.

:30:20. > :30:23.That is what we want to see. Highland Council has submitted a

:30:24. > :30:27.detailed plan for the deal investment with the support of the

:30:28. > :30:31.Scottish Government. Will be minister committed to advancing

:30:32. > :30:37.discussions and indicate a timescale for finalizing the process to allow

:30:38. > :30:41.the deal to get under way? Discussions are already under way.

:30:42. > :30:44.Officials met with local representatives on the 2nd of

:30:45. > :30:47.December, we will continue to work through those plans to ensure that

:30:48. > :30:51.they are robust and will deliver what is needed and that they meet

:30:52. > :30:54.the requirement that we look to place on such deals and that they

:30:55. > :30:59.have the support they need in order to continue. We wish to see them

:31:00. > :31:03.progress positively. That is the assurance I can give at this time,

:31:04. > :31:06.these things need to be done properly and thoroughly as they are

:31:07. > :31:12.taking forward. Number 14 Mr Speaker. I will be presented in

:31:13. > :31:18.local government financial settlement for 2016 and one the 17th

:31:19. > :31:21.of the house. I will show how we will lay out a sustainable

:31:22. > :31:27.settlement and pave the way for future reforms, providing growth and

:31:28. > :31:34.efficiency, such as local government has requested. Research by the dose

:31:35. > :31:39.of lounging foundation has so that there are some areas that have great

:31:40. > :31:45.need and have seen a large cuts in government funding. This is broken a

:31:46. > :31:48.historic link. Over the last five years, councils have had severe cuts

:31:49. > :31:54.to their funding while other areas have seen an increase. Forecasts

:31:55. > :31:59.suggest that they will be at least a lost by 2020. What's with the

:32:00. > :32:03.government do to make sure funding for local authorities to reflect the

:32:04. > :32:06.needs of the people who live there? What I would say is that she would

:32:07. > :32:12.wait to see what the settlement has in store. But what she should know,

:32:13. > :32:20.from the last two years is that the spending power for rural, and ?2240

:32:21. > :32:32.per dwelling is 70% above the national average at average. It is

:32:33. > :32:39.higher than it was in 2010. Fistulas in my area, pay an average of ?80

:32:40. > :32:44.more and Council tax, yet receive ?130 length and government funding.

:32:45. > :32:47.This impacts local services. Does the Secretary of State agree it is

:32:48. > :32:55.time to look for fairer funding for all taxpayers? What I would say is

:32:56. > :33:01.that Iraq demise because of the delivering services in areas with a

:33:02. > :33:08.very smart area is high for obvious reasons. The role services delivery

:33:09. > :33:14.Grant was used to reflect those cross. It has been increased since

:33:15. > :33:18.it has been introduced. When we came to make the financial settlement, I

:33:19. > :33:27.will put that in mind as he make the assessment of what is needed? The

:33:28. > :33:34.report found that there was a limited understanding of authorities

:33:35. > :33:37.five sustainability. Can be Secretary and advises house of his

:33:38. > :33:43.understanding of load taxpayer authorities. And the in

:33:44. > :33:48.sustainability with the percentage across the board cut. Does he

:33:49. > :33:52.understand that the removal of the grant completely and the retention

:33:53. > :33:56.of all business tax without distribution will drive these

:33:57. > :34:00.authorities right under the ground? As a former council leader, I would

:34:01. > :34:05.have thought that the honourable lady with the inmate position to

:34:06. > :34:13.welcome the settlement for local government. Not only provided over

:34:14. > :34:16.the course of the four years a protection for the local government.

:34:17. > :34:21.We did what the local government requested which was to make money

:34:22. > :34:25.available for the care of the elderly duties also care preset. I

:34:26. > :34:35.would have thought that her experience would have author of two

:34:36. > :34:39.that. Does this reflect the pressures on top-tier authorities

:34:40. > :34:43.for social care costs and restate the opportunities for greater

:34:44. > :34:49.integration of health and adult social care spending in this area

:34:50. > :34:53.has supported by others? He is absolutely right. I had a

:34:54. > :34:58.communication from the local Government Association that said

:34:59. > :35:02.that they estimated the gap is unaddressed would be to .9 billion

:35:03. > :35:09.in the spending review settlement, the Chancellor allocated three and a

:35:10. > :35:14.half billion to reflect the needs of helping our elderly population. That

:35:15. > :35:17.was a significant result for local government. Has become too big

:35:18. > :35:20.settlement for individual authorities, we will make sure that

:35:21. > :35:30.that is in the hands of local people. At least 340 unaccompanied

:35:31. > :35:34.child asylum seeker disappeared in this country between January and

:35:35. > :35:39.September. That is twice as many as the calendar year before. This leads

:35:40. > :35:43.them at terrifying risk of abuse, sexual exploitation and

:35:44. > :35:47.radicalisation. Councils they funding cuts means that they don't

:35:48. > :35:52.have the resources to protect these children. Why is the government

:35:53. > :35:56.going ahead in these circumstances with a further cut to the

:35:57. > :36:02.unaccompanied child asylum seeker grant? What I would say is that

:36:03. > :36:05.these are important strategy responsibilities of local

:36:06. > :36:08.authorities. It is vital that they do start seven. To the settlement,

:36:09. > :36:11.the Chancellor has made available funds to local government to make

:36:12. > :36:16.sure that the cast supplemented by the end of the period, the financial

:36:17. > :36:23.spending review period is the same as the beginning. That is a positive

:36:24. > :36:28.result for local government. Number 15 Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker,

:36:29. > :36:34.the number of local authorities that have resettled Syrian of refugees

:36:35. > :36:43.and changes as more arrived. I don't think it is practical to give a

:36:44. > :36:46.number on the authorities participating, around 50 local

:36:47. > :36:53.authorities confirmed places before Christmas. Does the ministers share

:36:54. > :37:04.my concerns about the rise of a phobia in the country filled by

:37:05. > :37:10.right wing of? How should they deal with and how should they support

:37:11. > :37:18.refugees? I do share his concern about Islam a phobia, as far as the

:37:19. > :37:21.refugees who have arrived here, I have gotten nothing but a warm

:37:22. > :37:28.welcome from all parts of the UK. I'm certain that will continue.

:37:29. > :37:32.Local authorities seem to be confused about their role in this,

:37:33. > :37:41.is there anything the Minister can do can add clarity and hurry things

:37:42. > :37:45.along? Dealings with local authorities is on particular cases,

:37:46. > :37:51.we do not have any power to insist that refugees go to certain places

:37:52. > :37:56.but we are working with, County councils and district councils, and

:37:57. > :38:00.a metropolitan borough areas. It is a very flexible system, all I can

:38:01. > :38:03.say is it it has worked very well. The number of places that have been

:38:04. > :38:12.offered is the equivalent to the number of refugees that are

:38:13. > :38:16.arriving. Planning appeals are determined in accordance with

:38:17. > :38:21.development plan, unless said otherwise. Once brought in, and

:38:22. > :38:25.neighbourhood plan is part of a development plan. As the Minister

:38:26. > :38:29.won no, a few weeks ago, villages were going to the polls to vote on

:38:30. > :38:34.the referendum on their neighbourhood plan. At the very same

:38:35. > :38:39.time, a Secretary of State was allowing a housing, a planning

:38:40. > :38:43.appeal in their area. How can the Minister and Sun Microsystems after

:38:44. > :38:54.all of the world that they put it, what assurance can they put in that

:38:55. > :39:01.work is worthwhile? I'm happy he took interest in local matters as

:39:02. > :39:09.does the. He he will be happy that I cannot comment on individual cases.

:39:10. > :39:13.The letter provided with them sent out the difference between them. And

:39:14. > :39:16.why it has been done, the Secretary of State will always give

:39:17. > :39:27.appropriate weight to neighbourhood plan. It is a important part of our

:39:28. > :39:32.vetting process. We welcome them. Thank you Mr Speaker, we will be

:39:33. > :39:37.presenting our proposals for a sustainable and fair 2016 and 17

:39:38. > :39:41.local government finance settlement to the house. We propose to consider

:39:42. > :39:49.our approach from being dependent, to benefiting from promoting local

:39:50. > :39:56.growth. Spending on adult social care has fallen by ?65 per person in

:39:57. > :40:00.the most deprived communities. Prepared -- compared to other

:40:01. > :40:07.communities. And one of the councils I represent, the shortfall in

:40:08. > :40:12.funding is ?20 million. ?2 million can be raised by increasing council

:40:13. > :40:16.tax by 2%. Isn't it true that allowing an ask her rise in council

:40:17. > :40:26.tax devolves the blame without fixing the probable? The local

:40:27. > :40:30.government settlement that will come very shortly, we will announce

:40:31. > :40:34.changes to local government finances to rebound support including those

:40:35. > :40:38.authorities with adult social care responsibilities. By taking into

:40:39. > :40:46.account the main resources available to councils including counsel back

:40:47. > :40:53.tax and business rates. We are speaking with Southeast balance a

:40:54. > :40:57.look at proposals, it is welcome that so many parts of Scotland

:40:58. > :41:03.aren't keen to be part of the process of delivering city deals.

:41:04. > :41:14.They will agree in such a way that will drive economic growth. Despite

:41:15. > :41:20.the obvious wealth,... 21% of children and a proposed for the

:41:21. > :41:26.region are living in poverty. The economy is not being held by

:41:27. > :41:34.government positions. Can be minister tell us what he thinks is

:41:35. > :41:37.going to help? The time and never makes an important point about the

:41:38. > :41:46.diverse nature of the area of which he talked. We want to ensure that we

:41:47. > :41:49.can deliver the growth so that it can realise its potential. We will

:41:50. > :41:54.continue to have talks, which I think have been productive and

:41:55. > :41:57.constructive. We will continue to work constructively to the liver

:41:58. > :42:01.that city deal if it can be delivered in the right way. These

:42:02. > :42:10.things must be decided properly. That is the process that is under

:42:11. > :42:15.way. The housing and planning bill does contain measures to tackle and

:42:16. > :42:19.go further with landlords than any before. We want to roll out

:42:20. > :42:22.landlords who rent out substandard accommodation and do all we can to

:42:23. > :42:39.make sure that tenants have a good and safe environment. A tougher

:42:40. > :42:42.fitter proper person test. ... Over the past five years, despite

:42:43. > :42:49.privately raised in homes, rents have sorted, and are a fit higher

:42:50. > :42:54.than they were in 2010. Why have is the government not taken any steps

:42:55. > :43:03.with the soaring rents? And she looks at the rents over the last

:43:04. > :43:09.five years, it has been a lower. We are going a lot further than ever

:43:10. > :43:16.before in terms of cracking down on landlords. We all want to see cross

:43:17. > :43:20.party put out of business. An important part is making sure that

:43:21. > :43:24.landlord understand their obligations and that tenants

:43:25. > :43:30.understand what is available. What is the action they are taking to

:43:31. > :43:39.understand that they understand their responsibilities? He makes a

:43:40. > :43:44.good point. Apart from what we aren't doing to publicise, we have

:43:45. > :43:50.published a guide for tennis to look at so that they can understand the

:43:51. > :44:00.rights they have. We should be clear, and tenant should be happy

:44:01. > :44:08.with it? . Order! Thank you Mr Speaker. Before Christmas, I wish

:44:09. > :44:12.everybody a happy Christmas. Since the last questions, the spending

:44:13. > :44:16.review has announced the biggest affordable housing programmes in the

:44:17. > :44:25.1970s. Delivering them many affordable homes, we have agreed

:44:26. > :44:28.devolution deals with Liverpool and the West Midlands and completed the

:44:29. > :44:34.committee states of the housing and planning bill. We will continue to

:44:35. > :44:39.develop new devolution deals with communities in order to give off

:44:40. > :44:43.more power and resources across the country. As my right honourable

:44:44. > :44:49.friend might know, I am running a campaign to save the hedgehog. Can I

:44:50. > :44:53.ask my right honourable friend, and he will ask his department, to

:44:54. > :44:58.provide guidance to local authorities on how to make the

:44:59. > :45:02.gardens and the new feels more hedgehog friendly and ensure that we

:45:03. > :45:11.can actually have a hedgehog superhighway. What I would say, I

:45:12. > :45:17.know this is a prickly issue for him, let me get straight to point. I

:45:18. > :45:22.want the issuing guidance on the protection of hedgehogs, but I will

:45:23. > :45:26.draw members attention to the excellent publications of the

:45:27. > :45:32.British hedgehog preservation Society, and their guide to looking

:45:33. > :45:40.hedgehog. I would recommend for any Honorable members who want to curl

:45:41. > :45:44.up this Christmas and read it. The words hedgehog, superhighway did not

:45:45. > :45:53.trip off the Secretary of State Tonka. Maybe he is preserving them

:45:54. > :45:56.for another occasion. Why is it that those councils who have the highest

:45:57. > :46:01.number of vulnerable children are the same councils that have seen the

:46:02. > :46:09.highest level of budget cuts under his government? I would say to the

:46:10. > :46:15.Honorable Lady, that if she looks at the figures, it is quite apparent,

:46:16. > :46:22.that the local authorities with the highest spending power are the local

:46:23. > :46:26.authorities that she refers to. Councils will see a rise in their

:46:27. > :46:34.resource in cash terms over these parliament from 40 billion to 40.5

:46:35. > :46:43.billion. The Honorable Lady will see the outcome of the local government

:46:44. > :46:53.finance settlement. Will do all join me in welcoming the plan of for the

:46:54. > :46:57.tearing down of a building. It's being replaced by hundreds of new

:46:58. > :47:04.homes of many different types including some 260 badly needed

:47:05. > :47:08.assisted living apartments. He has given a great example of a local

:47:09. > :47:17.authority making good use of Brownfield land to provide housing

:47:18. > :47:22.that their constituency needs. And a hasty attempt to reverse the office

:47:23. > :47:32.of housing statistics, ministers were reported that there was a cell

:47:33. > :47:39.of... Two private investors. Housing Association has made sure that they

:47:40. > :47:46.will oppose such a move. It is an unhelpful distraction. Can a

:47:47. > :47:57.minister and store the house that a...

:47:58. > :48:05.Lasher, councils local development plan was adopted with new green belt

:48:06. > :48:10.boundaries, will they and sure confidence and the plan to make sure

:48:11. > :48:13.that the policy for his determination, or any application to

:48:14. > :48:17.the point from the plant by giving itself planning permission to build

:48:18. > :48:24.on the green belt that was so recently confirmed? I think my

:48:25. > :48:28.Honorable friend outlines an important part. He is right, that a

:48:29. > :48:32.local authorities who has its plan in place, I am sure that this is

:48:33. > :48:37.local authority were to take an opportunity to go outside a local

:48:38. > :48:44.plant he would be the first to request myself or the Secretary of

:48:45. > :48:48.State to consider that application. Some authorities have had to close

:48:49. > :48:55.the local where affairs assistance schemes altogether. Food banks are

:48:56. > :48:59.in need of. Will does government preside over 5 million people, will

:49:00. > :49:07.the Secretary of State commit to protect future funding and reinstate

:49:08. > :49:09.the law? It is important to local authorities take their

:49:10. > :49:15.responsibilities seriously, when we have the local government finance

:49:16. > :49:19.settlement, I'm sure there will be happy to see and recognise. The

:49:20. > :49:24.people of Lincoln shared know what is best for the people of

:49:25. > :49:32.Lincolnshire. Can my honourable friend outlined the deal. And tell

:49:33. > :49:36.us how the bid is going. My honourable friend is well-placed to

:49:37. > :49:43.represent the views of people of link share. He does it effectively.

:49:44. > :49:49.Areas are different and local people know best what they need to drive

:49:50. > :49:54.economic improvement and improve the lives that they represent.

:49:55. > :49:57.Discussions are going well. They include discussions on skills,

:49:58. > :50:08.transport, housing, and water management. What discussions has the

:50:09. > :50:12.Secretary of State has with the business sector for still

:50:13. > :50:14.communities and how they can use imaginative and creative approaches

:50:15. > :50:21.to support the steel industry through this difficult time? I have

:50:22. > :50:26.had discussions with the business secretary and his colleagues. It is

:50:27. > :50:33.important that we and power of those communities to act in support of the

:50:34. > :50:38.businesses and the employees, through the extension of the

:50:39. > :50:42.enterprise, he will see that practical support has been given to

:50:43. > :50:50.make sure that the prosperity of those regions continues to grow

:50:51. > :50:54.despite these challenges. I am delighted to see the extra supply of

:50:55. > :51:00.affordable housing, as a result of the housing and planning bill. A key

:51:01. > :51:05.to that is supplied. Will he agree with me that the London land

:51:06. > :51:08.commission is keen to do this. And we keep under review all the plans

:51:09. > :51:15.that they need to make sure of the land comes in. Like? I am honoured

:51:16. > :51:17.to be joint chair of the London land commission, I can give them

:51:18. > :51:22.assurance that we will make sure that the land does come forward and

:51:23. > :51:27.plays an important part to deliver housing to London. When we get to

:51:28. > :51:31.the 12 month point from where it started, we will do a review to make

:51:32. > :51:39.sure it has the power it needs to deliver. On Saturday, I was out with

:51:40. > :51:48.Caroline Pridgen who is a London Mayor candidate. Kill me makes so

:51:49. > :52:02.that PCS cells continue to play the role that they play in keeping our

:52:03. > :52:05.streets safe. I'm glad he remembers the name of his candidate, I think

:52:06. > :52:12.it is spent most of us in that's how. I'm very happy to confirm the

:52:13. > :52:19.importance of all of our police, and keeping our streets safe. Simon

:52:20. > :52:24.Stevens has described social care funding as unresolved business. With

:52:25. > :52:28.the Secretary of State agree with him that it is time to have a

:52:29. > :52:34.rethink on how we fund the social care in the future? She has a deep

:52:35. > :52:39.and long-standing interest in this and she should know that the funding

:52:40. > :52:42.adult social care is something that should be done jointly between local

:52:43. > :52:47.councils and the NHS. The health secretary and I are working closely

:52:48. > :52:51.to make sure that the funds at the Chancellor has made available is put

:52:52. > :52:54.to good use so that our elderly people are properly cared for rather

:52:55. > :53:01.they are in charge of councils or in our hospital. Does the government

:53:02. > :53:12.have any plans for initiatives other than that business, to help people

:53:13. > :53:16.in small suburban shopping centres especially in my constituency? I

:53:17. > :53:20.think the Honorable Clement for that question, this government is doing a

:53:21. > :53:24.number of things to help the type of traitors, that the Honorable Tillman

:53:25. > :53:33.refers to, we have a principled planning changes to allow them to

:53:34. > :53:36.respond more flexibly. We are tackling overzealous parking

:53:37. > :53:40.practices, and I am working closely with retail worker migrations of the

:53:41. > :53:45.future of the form to develop strategies that will enable our high

:53:46. > :53:51.streets and communities to beat the future needs of the consumer. I

:53:52. > :53:57.would like to commend Staffordshire fire and rescue service for there

:53:58. > :54:02.will work in fire prevention which has conjured to falling call-outs.

:54:03. > :54:06.Does he agree with me that further integration between police, fire and

:54:07. > :54:12.other services with help to more effectively identify vulnerable

:54:13. > :54:16.people which would lead to better outcomes for the public and

:54:17. > :54:23.efficiency savings? I agree, closer collaboration between our blue light

:54:24. > :54:29.services offers better services to make efficiencies. I would encourage

:54:30. > :54:32.to the consultation that we have for her and her colleagues to make their

:54:33. > :54:39.representation so that we can do that without the current barriers.

:54:40. > :54:44.On the last consideration of the housing bill, the Conservatives

:54:45. > :54:48.passed an amendment to bring to an end, secure tendencies and social

:54:49. > :54:51.housing, that was done without consultation or any impact

:54:52. > :54:56.assessment. Can the Secretary of State tell me where he won councils

:54:57. > :55:00.senates that this was in a conservative manifesto? Actually, I

:55:01. > :55:06.would say, that that was outlined in the summer budget, they are not

:55:07. > :55:09.affected by this. The provisions of the housing and planning bill made

:55:10. > :55:16.on the 7th of December, prevent councils from offering new tenants

:55:17. > :55:22.lifetime tenants in the future. Some areas such as the Isle of Wight will

:55:23. > :55:25.have a much more difficult task, to increase their income by increasing

:55:26. > :55:29.the business rate base. Blow my honourable friend meet the Isle of

:55:30. > :55:38.Wight Council to discuss this matter? Delighted to meet the Isle

:55:39. > :55:43.of Wight to speak. And taking 100% of business rates to local

:55:44. > :55:46.government, it is important that we agree that places who don't have

:55:47. > :55:54.good business rates are not going to lose out? Many of my concerns were

:55:55. > :55:58.dismayed when I went back, after hearing last week that my honourable

:55:59. > :56:02.friend suggested that you are going to limit competencies, what are you

:56:03. > :56:05.going to say to those members of Mike is interesting that are

:56:06. > :56:09.dismayed that this government has pulled this on them and what they

:56:10. > :56:16.considered to be their rights as citizens? I would refer to her to

:56:17. > :56:20.counter that with gave a few minutes ago. They are not affected by this.

:56:21. > :56:29.It is about new tenants. It is the right thing to do. With the previous

:56:30. > :56:31.member who was our cabinet secretary, I'm sure many taxpayers

:56:32. > :56:40.would wonder if that is a good expenditure. South Gloucestershire,

:56:41. > :56:50.work very well as a functional unit does my my honourable friend...

:56:51. > :56:56.Should be regarded as a betrayal. I can assure my right honourable

:56:57. > :57:09.friend I have no intention of free introducing the front door back door

:57:10. > :57:14.or. After a replacement for Right to Buy was funded, the UK government

:57:15. > :57:21.what would the consequences for Scotland beat? As I said earlier,

:57:22. > :57:25.despite his government is saying a increase in its capital budget as a

:57:26. > :57:32.result of a announcement at the spending review. Individual policies

:57:33. > :57:36.are rotten through and delivered, the British Government will meet its

:57:37. > :57:44.obligations, in that regard. And will continue to do so.

:57:45. > :57:57.Urgent questions. I wish to ask the Minister responded to make a

:57:58. > :58:04.statement on the sports PLC and its compliance with the national minimum

:58:05. > :58:07.wage legislation. Thank you very much, I assure the right honourable

:58:08. > :58:11.departments concerned that working people are paid the full amount that

:58:12. > :58:16.the law requires for every hour that they work. And welcomed his urgent

:58:17. > :58:20.questions. We take the minimum low-wage laws very seriously which

:58:21. > :58:28.is why we have increased the budget from a to .1 million to 13 million

:58:29. > :58:33.and 2015. What I am not able to comment on the individual players, I

:58:34. > :58:37.can reassure the house that her majesties revenue and customs

:58:38. > :58:43.followed up with the put in place that they receive. I would encourage

:58:44. > :58:50.any employee or worker was concerned that these laws are not being

:58:51. > :58:55.complied with to contact either the people to the hotline. They also

:58:56. > :59:00.undertake targeted enforcement activity in the most high-risk

:59:01. > :59:03.sectors of the economy. As the Prime Minister announced in September, the

:59:04. > :59:10.government is taking steps to crack down on employers that are not

:59:11. > :59:20.paying workers minimum wage. We have increased the... And from April

:59:21. > :59:26.2016, the government will double the penalty you to 200% of the employers

:59:27. > :59:30.comply with the law. Furthermore, a new team of compliance officers will

:59:31. > :59:33.be established to investigate the most serious cases of employers

:59:34. > :59:41.applying the relevant minimum wage. The team will have the power to use

:59:42. > :59:44.all available sanctions including criminal investigation. The one name

:59:45. > :59:49.employers who did not pay their workers what they are entitled to.

:59:50. > :59:54.At the government, our message to employers is straightforward. We

:59:55. > :00:00.will work to cut regulation and taxes. We expect employers to pay

:00:01. > :00:06.working people a legal minimum. The national wage and the national

:00:07. > :00:11.living wage for workers aged 25 and over. I will ensure the house that

:00:12. > :00:16.we will not hesitate to crack down hard on both employers large and

:00:17. > :00:23.small who break the contract by failing to pay the wage.

:00:24. > :00:27.I think the Minister for his apply and I am proud that the last Labour

:00:28. > :00:31.government in the face of the opposition opposite, introduced the

:00:32. > :00:35.national minimum wage in the first place when people in our country

:00:36. > :00:40.were earning as little as ?1 an hour. I am also proud that the

:00:41. > :00:44.overwhelming majority of reduce businesses, notwithstanding any

:00:45. > :00:51.legal acquirement, seek to treat their workers with dignity and

:00:52. > :00:54.respect. We know enough about the practices at sports direct PLC,

:00:55. > :00:59.which has a branch in mind constituency, to conclude that, Nick

:01:00. > :01:04.is a bad advert for British business -- this company is a bad advert for

:01:05. > :01:06.British business and one of culture of fear in the workplace which we

:01:07. > :01:10.would not want to see repeated elsewhere. As the Institute of

:01:11. > :01:15.directors has said it is a star of British business. I appreciate what

:01:16. > :01:20.the Mr said about not being able to response in specific instances, but

:01:21. > :01:24.can I ask... HMRC enforces national minimum wage and a complaint has

:01:25. > :01:37.been made by the union of which I am a member against sports direct,

:01:38. > :01:42.accusing them of being in... Of course it cannot be confirmed but

:01:43. > :01:46.many of them are refusing to come forward for fear of repercussions

:01:47. > :01:50.that will follow. Why can HMRC not go-ahead and carry out an

:01:51. > :01:52.investigation in this case? It surely will render other evidence

:01:53. > :02:00.without workers being required to put their necks on the line.

:02:01. > :02:03.Secondly, can ask a generic listing? And issue has come up here where

:02:04. > :02:08.employees are required to go through body searches to check for potential

:02:09. > :02:14.theft. That is not time which they spent going through what he

:02:15. > :02:17.searches, for which they are paid. The law is unclear in this area. Can

:02:18. > :02:21.you give industry and indication whether antigovernment's view time

:02:22. > :02:25.spent going through the body searches would count as working time

:02:26. > :02:33.for the purposes of this legislation? Secondly, we have a

:02:34. > :02:37.situation where employees face having 15 minutes of working time

:02:38. > :02:44.redacted if they clock in just one minute late. -- deductive. In that

:02:45. > :02:48.situation the law is not entirely clear again. Does the government not

:02:49. > :02:51.believe that if an employer was to engage in those kinds of practices

:02:52. > :02:59.it would not be at least in keeping with the spirit of the legislation?

:03:00. > :03:04.Can I also just finally ask: Of course the enforcement of national

:03:05. > :03:08.minimum wage legislation is not carried out by his department, it is

:03:09. > :03:11.carried out by HMRC. How can we expect HMRC to do the work we

:03:12. > :03:17.require them if the government is pushing through this 18% real terms

:03:18. > :03:22.cut in HMRC's funding over the course of the spending review

:03:23. > :03:25.period? Finally come a Mr Speaker, I think no doubt the reaction of the

:03:26. > :03:28.employee concerned in this case will be to say we comply with the law.

:03:29. > :03:32.But surely what they need to understand is actually the British

:03:33. > :03:37.public expect a lot more from them. We often don't do things that we are

:03:38. > :03:40.allowed to do by the law because we don't think that is the right way in

:03:41. > :03:45.treating our fellow citizens. Surely that should apply to the company in

:03:46. > :03:49.this place. Hear, hear! Mr Speaker, the right honourable

:03:50. > :03:52.gentleman asked a series of very important and good questions. The

:03:53. > :03:57.first point I'd like to make is if any employee of any company has any

:03:58. > :04:01.fear of repercussions I can reassure them that the hotline is genuinely

:04:02. > :04:06.confidential and I'm sure he would the willing to endorse the fact that

:04:07. > :04:09.it is an absolutely resolutely independent organisation. So there

:04:10. > :04:16.is no fear that they should have from calling out of hours to that

:04:17. > :04:22.hotline and reporting a practice. I did say in my brief response that

:04:23. > :04:28.HMRC enforcement is entitled to conduct targeted enforcement

:04:29. > :04:33.activity in sectors of concern. So it is entirely open to HMRC to

:04:34. > :04:39.actively proactively, investigate in sectors where they feel that

:04:40. > :04:42.breaches may be an evidence. So in that sense, they don't necessarily

:04:43. > :04:47.need to wait for a specific complaint to be able to investigate

:04:48. > :04:52.breaches. He asked about this question and I did read the article

:04:53. > :04:56.that revealed some of the allegations being made about sports

:04:57. > :05:00.direct. He mentioned the question of the search and the time that that

:05:01. > :05:03.takes and whether it is working time are not. He will know that this is

:05:04. > :05:08.an intensely vexed legal questions. As a former employment law

:05:09. > :05:13.practitioner, he will know how much time is this taking up of his former

:05:14. > :05:18.leagues. I cannot give an absolute pronouncement, but what I can say is

:05:19. > :05:25.that anything that counts as work, as part of somebody's employment

:05:26. > :05:28.contract, must be compensated at least at the level of minimum wages.

:05:29. > :05:34.So the question is whether that search counts as work as part of

:05:35. > :05:38.their employment contract. That is a position that can be explored

:05:39. > :05:44.legally. He mentioned the second thing that was made about employees

:05:45. > :05:51.being docked 15 minutes for being one minutes late. While it is

:05:52. > :05:54.legally permissible for time to be docked for late arrival, it is

:05:55. > :05:58.important that every honourable member understands that the minimum

:05:59. > :06:04.wage legislation will apply to the 14 minutes as well as the rest of

:06:05. > :06:09.time that people are working. So therefore, they cannot be not

:06:10. > :06:14.compensated for those 40 minutes if that would bring their overall wage

:06:15. > :06:18.rate down below the national minimum wage -- 14 minutes. I hope that goes

:06:19. > :06:23.to reassure him. He makes a point about the cut in funding for HMRC,

:06:24. > :06:26.up 18% over the spending review period. I will have to take his word

:06:27. > :06:29.because I don't have the global figures to hand, but I did point out

:06:30. > :06:33.to him the very significant and dedicated increase in funding for

:06:34. > :06:38.the enforcement team, the minimum wage enforcement team, which has

:06:39. > :06:42.gone up by more than 50% since 2010. And it is going up by 3 million

:06:43. > :06:47.pounds and this year alone. So I can reassure them whatever else is going

:06:48. > :06:51.on in HMRC, this is a priority which we are investing in and will be

:06:52. > :06:55.beefing up the activity of its. He is absolutely right to make the

:06:56. > :07:00.general point that obeying the law is the minimum that we expect. We

:07:01. > :07:06.expect employers to behave response to believe and to be good citizens

:07:07. > :07:10.and we would hope they would not be sabbaths. Mac satisfied just with

:07:11. > :07:16.obeying the law, but would want to go a great deal from it -- not be

:07:17. > :07:21.satisfied just with obeying the law. I know there is even greater than

:07:22. > :07:25.that of the others. I'm glad the Minister graciously welcomed the

:07:26. > :07:29.urgent question, but unfortunately the Treasury he wrote to me this

:07:30. > :07:32.morning to say the matter was not urgent and shouldn't be aired. I've

:07:33. > :07:40.included upon examination that it was and should. And we look forward

:07:41. > :07:43.very much I think to these changes. Mr Peter was standing, but the right

:07:44. > :07:51.honourable gentleman has thought better of it. Thank you Mr Speaker.

:07:52. > :07:57.My constituents have approached me on several occasions with concerns

:07:58. > :08:02.about sports direct since the election. It appears that they

:08:03. > :08:09.sometimes can have a somewhat aggressive use and attitude towards

:08:10. > :08:11.flexible working, which is something that can suit some but doesn't

:08:12. > :08:16.always suit other people. I wondered if my right honourable friend has

:08:17. > :08:23.considered some thought to a general anti-avoidance rule when it comes to

:08:24. > :08:31.these employment laws. Such as, we are considering and the tax sphere.

:08:32. > :08:34.Mr Speaker, you know it would be a career limiting move for me to the

:08:35. > :08:36.part in any way from the script laid down to my colleagues at the

:08:37. > :08:41.Treasury. An hour plead that I welcome the

:08:42. > :08:44.question and was glad to have an opportunity to answer it. Cannot

:08:45. > :08:48.think my honourable friend for his suggestion. I am not going to

:08:49. > :08:51.pretend that we have given thought to that. But he is not treated such

:08:52. > :08:56.thoughts and I will be happy to have a discussion with him about how it

:08:57. > :09:03.might work. We will come to Mr Skinner, who is because to join, but

:09:04. > :09:07.for now... Thank you Mr Speaker. These allegations against sports

:09:08. > :09:17.direct are concerning and we Aco because for eight Union for a HMRC

:09:18. > :09:20.investigation. We stand in unity because these can do nothing to

:09:21. > :09:25.engage employees and make them feel positive about the place in which

:09:26. > :09:28.they work. Allegations of such a serious nature must be taken very

:09:29. > :09:33.seriously by the UK government. And the government must do much more to

:09:34. > :09:37.support the living wage employers. The Scottish Government has

:09:38. > :09:39.encouraged over 400 living wage employers in Scotland. We have the

:09:40. > :09:46.second-highest proportion of employees played the living wage --

:09:47. > :09:50.paid the living wage. We on these benches want to know the government

:09:51. > :09:54.will commit wholeheartedly to support of HMRC investigation into

:09:55. > :09:57.the business practices. Can I ask the Secretary of State what lessons

:09:58. > :10:00.are going to be learned from this case? Especially when the UK

:10:01. > :10:03.government is gearing up to implement the new minimum wage

:10:04. > :10:07.premium which is not a living wage. If it can't enforce the current

:10:08. > :10:14.minimum wage -- living wage, how will it enforce increases? I welcome

:10:15. > :10:18.the contribution from the honourable lady representing the Scottish

:10:19. > :10:22.national party. Of course it is absolutely the job of the

:10:23. > :10:25.enforcement team in HMRC to follow up any concerns that they have, both

:10:26. > :10:31.in relation to specific complaint and about particular sectors where

:10:32. > :10:36.they feel that abusive minimum wage legislation. And indeed other

:10:37. > :10:40.employment legislation is rife. She will ensure that I cannot comment on

:10:41. > :10:45.a particular case, but if I may add would like to add that in general I

:10:46. > :10:48.suspect, and I don't often welcome an investigation by the Guardian

:10:49. > :10:54.newspaper, but in this case I think it is vitally important that media

:10:55. > :10:56.organizations do investigate these things because government is never

:10:57. > :11:01.going to be able to proactively investigate every single employer in

:11:02. > :11:07.the country. If they can uncover things then I can promise you that

:11:08. > :11:12.the government will be sure to review their findings and enforce

:11:13. > :11:17.the laws were necessary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Can I echo the comment

:11:18. > :11:21.to the Minister regarding the hotline. I have called the hotline

:11:22. > :11:28.with one of my constituents who came to my surgery who have been under

:11:29. > :11:31.the minimum wage, -- have been paid under the minimum wage and I find it

:11:32. > :11:37.extremely professional. Cannot question the Minister about upcoming

:11:38. > :11:42.change to the minimum wage with introduction to the living wage copy

:11:43. > :11:49.I read this survey of a thousand employees, strongly welcome the

:11:50. > :11:52.living wage and said it would boost in morale and productivity of their

:11:53. > :11:57.employees copy four out of ten said they had not communicated with their

:11:58. > :12:04.staff regarding upcoming attention arises in pay. I think eight out of

:12:05. > :12:08.ten still haven't updated their payroll and created new procedures

:12:09. > :12:11.to implement it. Could the Minister comment on that so legitimate

:12:12. > :12:17.businesses are ready and don't get into similar situations? The

:12:18. > :12:20.honourable gentleman conducted a adjournment debate on the subject. I

:12:21. > :12:27.didn't realise he had just done so. Is to speak of copy may

:12:28. > :12:34.may I thank the honourable member and that said or how good the

:12:35. > :12:36.hotline is a. There is a substantial government communication campaign

:12:37. > :12:43.that is going to be starting in the new year. We have felt it is in the

:12:44. > :12:47.months leading up that medication will be most effective in making

:12:48. > :12:51.sure employees and employers know that it is coming in and know what

:12:52. > :12:59.is required and begin to work out how to do this in their systems. The

:13:00. > :13:01.sports direct an occurs even though the national minimum wage has become

:13:02. > :13:06.a kind of national treasure. Everyone supports it now. But like

:13:07. > :13:12.all great social reforms it had to be fought for all-night opposition

:13:13. > :13:17.in this house. Before reform and become part of the political

:13:18. > :13:21.consensus have to be for four and the battle to sustain and minimum

:13:22. > :13:25.wage must be a continuous one and one that requires more than just

:13:26. > :13:31.warm words for ministers. The TUC estimate, at least 250,000 workers,

:13:32. > :13:36.are not being paid the minimum wage. What is the Minister's estimate? Or

:13:37. > :13:40.has the government even made one? Last Parliament it was revealed that

:13:41. > :13:43.just nine firms have been charged for noncompliance with the minimum

:13:44. > :13:49.wage. Cannae update the House on how many legal proceedings are currently

:13:50. > :13:51.under way against firms for noncompliance -- can he update?

:13:52. > :13:55.Denney tell us how many workers have received the money that they are

:13:56. > :13:59.will hold after a notice of under payment has been issued by HMRC,

:14:00. > :14:03.because up until now the government has failed to provide that data.

:14:04. > :14:06.Will now order an urgent investigation to sports direct,

:14:07. > :14:10.concerning the alleged abuses which have led the directors to label it a

:14:11. > :14:13.scar on British business? He says he is acting, but where are the

:14:14. > :14:19.results? How will he get results with the close of so many HMRC

:14:20. > :14:27.offices? Mr Speaker, is easy to talk the talk am OK, but it means nothing

:14:28. > :14:29.to millions of low-paid workers whose labour employees feel they can

:14:30. > :14:33.turn on and off like a tap unless ministers walked the walk on the

:14:34. > :14:38.minimum wage. When will we see some real action to enforce this? Hear,

:14:39. > :14:41.hear! I am happy to acknowledge that the

:14:42. > :14:47.national minimum wage was one of the great achievements of the government

:14:48. > :14:49.led by Tony Blair. I note that there are more supportive of that

:14:50. > :14:58.government's achievement on this side of the House as there are on

:14:59. > :15:03.his. I also look forward to receiving the same acknowledgment

:15:04. > :15:08.from members opposite when, in next April, we introduced the national

:15:09. > :15:11.living wage which is significantly higher than any increase in the

:15:12. > :15:16.national minimum wage that he and his colleagues proposed during the

:15:17. > :15:20.last election campaign. He asked very good and proper questions about

:15:21. > :15:25.enforcement. He glided over the fact that the budget for enforcement has

:15:26. > :15:32.gone up by more than the 2% since his party was in government has more

:15:33. > :15:35.than 50%. We have increased the level of penalties. We have

:15:36. > :15:38.increased the powers and we have stepped up the programme of naming

:15:39. > :15:45.and shaming companies, large and small. We have in 2014-15, 705

:15:46. > :15:53.employers receive penalties totalling over 934 thousand -- 900

:15:54. > :15:56.?34,000. We have set up a team to focus on tackling the most serious

:15:57. > :15:59.breaches and consider whether directors of employers who breach

:16:00. > :16:10.persistently in the legislation should be disqualified. In 2014-15,

:16:11. > :16:14.we identified with 12 9 million of which 26,018 workers we conducted

:16:15. > :16:26.735 successful investigations and charged 705 penalties,

:16:27. > :16:31.worth ?934,000 in total. If he wants to suggest any further activity we

:16:32. > :16:37.can take I am happy to hear it, but fortunately we are doing a lot more

:16:38. > :16:40.for the government he was part of to defend one of the only achievements

:16:41. > :16:42.they are still willing to talk about -- then the government he was a part

:16:43. > :16:50.of. Hear, hear! IQ. There are reports that some

:16:51. > :16:52.large retail businesses have already increased their hourly salary for

:16:53. > :16:57.employers above the minimum wage. Could the Minister that housing is

:16:58. > :17:02.in the standing of this? I have heard such reports that the Volokh

:17:03. > :17:08.and not all the talk -- off the top of my tongue, speak that it is

:17:09. > :17:11.extremely welcome news. Is the point made by an honourable gentleman

:17:12. > :17:16.opposite that we expect more than just the obedience and faith of the

:17:17. > :17:19.law. We ask that social response ability and employers to see the

:17:20. > :17:24.benefits to them in terms of improved morale and retention that

:17:25. > :17:29.come from paying people better wages. I don't think the Minister

:17:30. > :17:33.should expect any social responsibility from the man that

:17:34. > :17:40.controls sports direct. In my constituency. At the warehouse,

:17:41. > :17:46.Abshire broke him a -- at sire broke. That man has not made ?6

:17:47. > :17:51.million because he is a considerate employer. He is a monster of a man.

:17:52. > :18:04.That does not even reply to him these letters. I have sent him many.

:18:05. > :18:08.-- MPs latest copy he has got ?6 billion because he is the type of

:18:09. > :18:14.man who will not take notice of HMRC unless this government really means

:18:15. > :18:17.business. This man might actually, would think very masterfully on

:18:18. > :18:28.millionaires roll along with his house. -- pals. This will be a test

:18:29. > :18:35.of the Minister's metal. Get working. Mr Speaker, I never had the

:18:36. > :18:38.pleasure of being encouraged that by the honourable gentleman before, but

:18:39. > :18:42.I promise to follow up on it. I want to be clear. I don't care how famous

:18:43. > :18:47.an employer is. I don't care how well connected they are. I don't

:18:48. > :18:52.care, friendly, how much money they have made. They need to obey the law

:18:53. > :18:55.and if they do not then we will enforce the law. We will find them

:18:56. > :19:02.and disqualified directors if necessary. Hear, hear!

:19:03. > :19:05.Thank you Mr Speaker. As well as strong enforcement for the

:19:06. > :19:10.government is should be possible for those who are employed by bad

:19:11. > :19:14.businesses to vote with their feet and moved to better employers. So

:19:15. > :19:21.what is being done to help create more and better jobs for those

:19:22. > :19:27.employed by sports direct? And communicate the availability of

:19:28. > :19:30.those jobs to them. I thank my honourable friend for bringing us

:19:31. > :19:35.back to the important constant theme of this government which is an

:19:36. > :19:40.economy that is creating new jobs at an unprecedented rate. Most of those

:19:41. > :19:43.jobs now are full-time. And most of them are paying more, not just the

:19:44. > :19:47.minimum wage, but then the national living wage which will be coming in

:19:48. > :19:50.in April. Ultimately it is through a dynamic economy that will create

:19:51. > :19:53.opportunity for anyone who does not feel that they are getting a square

:19:54. > :19:58.deal from their current employer. Thank you Mr Speaker. When sports

:19:59. > :20:02.direct announced they would be building their factory at sire

:20:03. > :20:09.broke, able in North Derbyshire have been delighted. It employs nearly

:20:10. > :20:13.3000 people, it is said that it should have a terrible reputation.

:20:14. > :20:15.What would he take to communicate with that company and trying to

:20:16. > :20:18.enter in the future the success of the organisation does not come at

:20:19. > :20:25.the expense of the constituents of my honourable friend? Mr Speaker, I

:20:26. > :20:28.am delighted that the honourable gentleman has pointed out how

:20:29. > :20:31.important they are as an employer in his constituency. It is important

:20:32. > :20:35.that we acknowledge that sports direct employs a great many people.

:20:36. > :20:42.I am sure a great many people are very happy to work there. I

:20:43. > :20:44.reinforced the point that no company director and no company owner is

:20:45. > :20:49.going to want the House of Commons to be discussing any times that we

:20:50. > :20:54.are discussing, the kind of priest was alleged in this newspaper

:20:55. > :20:57.article. -- the kind of breach. I am certain that when faced with the

:20:58. > :21:01.kind of enforcement action that I have set out that any employer,

:21:02. > :21:05.including those in his own constituency, will want to sort

:21:06. > :21:09.themselves out. Mr Speaker, would message of business tier does my

:21:10. > :21:15.honourable friend have for all those people who are self-employed and

:21:16. > :21:17.earning far less than the minimum wage? -- Christmas cheer. But are

:21:18. > :21:25.faced with having to submit a quarter of their returns to HMRC

:21:26. > :21:28.instead of annual ones? I am full of admiration for anyone who is

:21:29. > :21:33.self-employed. It brings many rewards, but money is not always one

:21:34. > :21:36.of them. And I am absolutely clear that the government must do

:21:37. > :21:40.everything it possibly can to reduce the burden of regulation on those

:21:41. > :21:44.who are self-employed. Does the Minister recognise what is so

:21:45. > :21:50.disturbing about the newspaper report? Is the fear amongst many

:21:51. > :21:56.working people there, in some instances apparently, women are not

:21:57. > :22:01.willing to stay away from work, even if their child is sick for the day,

:22:02. > :22:05.simply because they may lose their job. Is it not totally unacceptable

:22:06. > :22:13.to have such fear and exultation in a company like this? It reminds one,

:22:14. > :22:17.does it not, of the early years of the last century when workers were

:22:18. > :22:22.treated in such a contemptible way. Finally, why was the advice given to

:22:23. > :22:26.the Speaker if this was not an urgent question? If the Minister is

:22:27. > :22:31.so keen on coming to the House and welcoming the Guardian

:22:32. > :22:33.investigation, why did he try and stop the question being asked in the

:22:34. > :22:38.first place -- why didn't he? Hear, hear!

:22:39. > :22:43.It is for you always to judge whether a question is urgent, Mr

:22:44. > :22:47.Speaker. I knowledged that this question is important which is why

:22:48. > :22:52.am so delighted to answer it. On the broader point of the honourable

:22:53. > :22:57.member has made, Bob is government beliefs and deregulation, believes

:22:58. > :23:00.and reducing the burden, we have made clear that there are certain

:23:01. > :23:05.laws that are absolute -- while this government,. They must be adhered

:23:06. > :23:08.to. Minimum-wage legislation is one along with health and safety

:23:09. > :23:15.legislation and a whole slew of other protections and we want to

:23:16. > :23:21.protect those robustly. Thank you Mr Speaker. According to the ONS, a

:23:22. > :23:25.quarter of a million people are not paid the minimum wage. According to

:23:26. > :23:28.the Minister, HMRC have found that 6000 of them. What with the Minister

:23:29. > :23:35.do in order to bridge the gap? -- 26,000. Can I suggest that to not

:23:36. > :23:40.pay the minimum wage is a criminal offence. Why are they not been

:23:41. > :23:43.prosecutions taken out against these directors who are not paying the

:23:44. > :23:47.minimum wage and the department that is responsible for taking out

:23:48. > :23:50.prosecutions in the attorney generals office has been cut for the

:23:51. > :23:55.last three years. And there has not been a single prosecution during

:23:56. > :23:59.that time. Mr Speaker, the honourable Lady always comes to this

:24:00. > :24:05.house knowing the complete answer to every question. But it might help or

:24:06. > :24:09.sometimes issue would actually listen to the list of the measures

:24:10. > :24:12.that we have been introducing which both significantly further than any

:24:13. > :24:16.enforcement activity that the government of which she was a

:24:17. > :24:24.brought forward to defend their minimum wage. When that set of

:24:25. > :24:29.enforcement measures has worked as well as it is doing currently, I see

:24:30. > :24:33.no reason to take any instruction however helpfully phrased from the

:24:34. > :24:35.honourable Lady. This is an extremely important matter but we

:24:36. > :24:41.have other important business to follow, so amplifier brief questions

:24:42. > :24:44.and answers -- I am looking for. This is a disturbing case and the

:24:45. > :24:47.Guardian. With the Minister agree that one good piece of news is

:24:48. > :24:50.whatever else happens, in April of next year, sports direct will have

:24:51. > :24:59.to pay these people 11% more than they are getting now? Yes, and that

:25:00. > :25:03.has happened because the majority of the conservative government that has

:25:04. > :25:06.allowed the economy sufficiently well, that we can expect to do that

:25:07. > :25:13.and still prosper. Hear, hear! The Minister has pointed out that

:25:14. > :25:15.HMRC conducts risk space enforcement whether it's a higher risk of work

:25:16. > :25:19.is not getting the legal minimum wage. That the secretary and which

:25:20. > :25:28.voice direct operate already comes to a high risk sector? Isil, Jaime

:25:29. > :25:34.Bracht of initiatives have HMRC lost -- if so, how many initiatives have

:25:35. > :25:41.been launched? The sectors that are targeted for this type of approach

:25:42. > :25:43.are either low-paid, there are a large number of employers who are

:25:44. > :25:46.close to the boundary of minimum-wage, or those where there

:25:47. > :25:50.have been significant breaches in the past and therefore there is a

:25:51. > :25:54.good reason to expect there might be such breaches in the future. I can

:25:55. > :26:01.argue the specific answer to how many investigations, and I will be

:26:02. > :26:08.happy to write to him and place a copy in the library. On the 14th of

:26:09. > :26:12.October two -- on the 14th of October at, a minister up to me

:26:13. > :26:17.however he could not confirm which companies are under investigation or

:26:18. > :26:20.on the approach of investigations. What he said about being started

:26:21. > :26:22.with the owners and managers and directors of these companies, would

:26:23. > :26:26.he be started with my home care which were previously run by the new

:26:27. > :26:39.Tory Baroness, MacGregor Smith,? I don't think it is a job of the

:26:40. > :26:42.Minister of the crime to lay individual companies and cases that

:26:43. > :26:47.have not been found definitively to preach the law. I have been as clear

:26:48. > :26:52.as I possibly could be about any employer large or small who does so.

:26:53. > :27:00.I hope that he can apply that to any particular case. Everyone knows in

:27:01. > :27:04.our area are you cannot get a job anywhere else in the sports direct

:27:05. > :27:10.if you are an English native speaker despite a 3000 people working there.

:27:11. > :27:17.When a baby is born, in the toilet there. Why is it that there were 80

:27:18. > :27:21.and a pleasant visit over two years to sports direct, and is the

:27:22. > :27:27.possibly the case that employees are too scared and are not allowed time

:27:28. > :27:34.off to go to the Doctor? And therefore, there is a myth dioxin of

:27:35. > :27:39.NHS resources. Made also be the proper possibility that housing

:27:40. > :27:43.nearby, people are too scared to speak that they are provided with

:27:44. > :27:49.the house to live in, and the rent to it and the transport they have to

:27:50. > :27:54.play to get to work, there needs to be an investigation. -- pay. Not

:27:55. > :28:01.just for sports direct but the agencies underneath them who they

:28:02. > :28:05.employ. If the ombudsman or any Honorable member has any allegations

:28:06. > :28:08.and evidence of bad practice and relation to when the ways of the

:28:09. > :28:11.placed or any other legislation, that they would like to bring to my

:28:12. > :28:17.attention, I would welcome a. I would like to add this, the right

:28:18. > :28:22.honourable gentleman, mentioned that a trade union had been involved and

:28:23. > :28:26.bring to his attention, concerns of this particular employer. If Xavier,

:28:27. > :28:32.and despite what we said about the hotline being confidential, if they

:28:33. > :28:36.fear that those employees that they don't trust those governments one

:28:37. > :28:42.lines, if they would like to submit their evidence to the Union, on the

:28:43. > :28:47.other hand, I am sure all honourable members will understand that they

:28:48. > :28:51.need to be willing to engage with officers to evidence. Government has

:28:52. > :28:58.to act on a basis of evidence, however well researched to the

:28:59. > :29:03.garden article, that is not enough. Isn't it time that the government

:29:04. > :29:06.looked at introducing a criminal offence for exploitation, which they

:29:07. > :29:12.have refused to do in the modern slavery bill in the last Parliament?

:29:13. > :29:21.I think we have enough criminal event moves, -- offences. That is

:29:22. > :29:28.the increase in the budget by 50%, the new powers we are giving, that

:29:29. > :29:31.is what it will achieve. My understanding is that the trade

:29:32. > :29:40.unions have made representations on behalf of staff, who fork very good

:29:41. > :29:43.reason what to remain anonymous. Should the HMRC continue to ignore

:29:44. > :29:47.representations on behalf of legitimate trade unions, or should

:29:48. > :29:52.they just act now and searched the offices of sports direct with blue I

:29:53. > :29:57.think I had been clear, if there are any individual complaint that will

:29:58. > :30:01.need to be assessed for validity, it does not need to be possible for

:30:02. > :30:06.HMRC to follow it up. I have also been clear that HMRC has undertaken

:30:07. > :30:12.targeted enforcement activity, which does not wait for a complaint in the

:30:13. > :30:16.sectors of concern. They will be listening to this debate. The

:30:17. > :30:21.Minister said that ultimately, it is a growing dynamic up economy that

:30:22. > :30:24.should give people confidence to find good job. Good employment

:30:25. > :30:30.practice and legislation always gives people confidence copy a

:30:31. > :30:38.number of resident Mike of the strength, use tips and service

:30:39. > :30:42.charges to pop up wages. Kilometre of the Minister would be with me and

:30:43. > :30:50.some of the campaign is from the GMB union to look further into these

:30:51. > :30:58.practices. And a looking at how these wages will be beneficial to my

:30:59. > :31:02.local community. And my experience, the Honorable Lady is on two things

:31:03. > :31:08.before the rest of us. I would be delighted to meet with her. What a

:31:09. > :31:13.good fellow he is. We are grateful to him. I thank him for engaging

:31:14. > :31:18.with those questions so comprehensively. We come in out of

:31:19. > :31:27.the statement by the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change.

:31:28. > :31:31.It gives me great pleasure to report to the house on the United Nations

:31:32. > :31:36.conference of parties in Paris last week. There has been delivered a

:31:37. > :31:41.historic new global climate change agreements that takes a significant

:31:42. > :31:46.step forward towards reducing on a global scale the image that cause

:31:47. > :31:50.climate change. For the first time, nearly 200 countries have made a

:31:51. > :31:55.commitment to act together and to be held accountable. In a doing so,

:31:56. > :32:00.that's integrated help protect not just our environment for our

:32:01. > :32:15.national and economic security. Now and for generations to come.

:32:16. > :32:18.As the Minister said in his speech, instead of making excuses tomorrow

:32:19. > :32:21.to our children and grandchildren, we should be taking action against

:32:22. > :32:23.climate change today. Mr Speaker, I am proud to say there aren't no more

:32:24. > :32:29.excuses. We have committed to action. This unequivocably in the

:32:30. > :32:35.interest of brand. It moves towards a level playing field. The Society

:32:36. > :32:42.of business has thrived as we transition to a low carbon economy.

:32:43. > :32:46.This is a deal we are committed to, recognises that action by one state

:32:47. > :32:51.alone cannot and will not solve climate change. And is what we do

:32:52. > :32:56.together that can copy I would like to say that all parties in the house

:32:57. > :33:02.can take significant credit for this. To gather, we passed the 2000

:33:03. > :33:07.and climate change act that set an example to the world of what

:33:08. > :33:13.ambitious action looks like. To gather, since Copenhagen in 2009, we

:33:14. > :33:16.have supports a long and difficult complex negotiation that has brought

:33:17. > :33:21.us to this point. I want to pay tribute not to sue the Prime

:33:22. > :33:24.Minister and my colleagues across government, but to my predecessors

:33:25. > :33:28.as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change for all of the hard

:33:29. > :33:34.work that they put in to bring us to this point. As a country, we should

:33:35. > :33:42.be proud of the role we have played, leading into the EU, working closely

:33:43. > :33:46.with major global players including the United States and China, and

:33:47. > :33:49.leaving many negotiations. My department has worked tirelessly to

:33:50. > :33:56.build political conditions and the capacity to enable countries to act.

:33:57. > :34:03.The UK team in the Paris show a commitment, passion, and resilient.

:34:04. > :34:09.They asked me to chair a finance session at 4am on Friday morning, I

:34:10. > :34:13.was well supported, when I left at 6:30am, they stayed to write up the

:34:14. > :34:20.conclusions and send them to the presidency. That was commitment. The

:34:21. > :34:22.UK played a key role in building alliances and share positions

:34:23. > :34:30.especially with the most vulnerable country to ensure that it can be

:34:31. > :34:36.maximised. This was not done to us, it was done by us. Indeed, it

:34:37. > :34:41.reflects many elements that we as a country has committed to as part of

:34:42. > :34:47.the climate change act. Of course, Paris is not the end of the road. We

:34:48. > :34:52.cannot sit back and say job done, we are far from that. Paris is the

:34:53. > :34:55.beginning, now the hard work to implement the agreements began. That

:34:56. > :35:06.may turn to what the countries have agreed to. First, we have set up a

:35:07. > :35:14.net zero emissions abide the end of the century. The ship to global

:35:15. > :35:18.antelope carbon economy will happen and provide the confidence needed to

:35:19. > :35:22.drive the scale of investment required. We have confirmed our

:35:23. > :35:31.collective ambition to limit global temperature rises, to below 2

:35:32. > :35:34.degrees. We have agreed a further aspiration of 1.5 degrees. The

:35:35. > :35:40.current level of commitment by individual countries will not meet

:35:41. > :35:46.this ambition. Crucially, countries will come back to the table to

:35:47. > :35:54.assess overall progress toward the 2 degrees goal in 2018 in every five

:35:55. > :35:57.years thereafter. As an grass investment grows and the cost comes

:35:58. > :36:07.down, the parent process will provide not just the opposite sea,

:36:08. > :36:10.but the political process. Starting in 2020, countries are expected to

:36:11. > :36:14.update their own plans to cut emissions and will be legally

:36:15. > :36:20.applied it to do so again every five years. Best, providing regular

:36:21. > :36:25.political moment to scale up ambition. Disagreement is not only

:36:26. > :36:30.comprehensive, it also recognises the role of both the developed

:36:31. > :36:38.economies and emerging economies, helping the poorest and most

:36:39. > :36:48.affordable to transition to a low carbon economy. Over the last five

:36:49. > :36:52.years, the UK's climate fund has been helping millions of the world

:36:53. > :36:57.for to withstand weather and rising temperatures. At the summit in

:36:58. > :37:05.September, the Prime Minister announced a uplift to increase

:37:06. > :37:08.financing by 50%, with ?5.8 billion of climate finance over the next

:37:09. > :37:14.year is to support for invulnerable countries to adapt to climate

:37:15. > :37:23.change. This is part of a global commitment to mobilise 100 billion

:37:24. > :37:28.dollars per year for the public and private sector and support economic

:37:29. > :37:33.growth through 2020. Germany, France, Japan, the United States,

:37:34. > :37:38.and Canada has increased an increase in their climate finance as well. As

:37:39. > :37:43.important as the parents agree with is, we will only achieve our

:37:44. > :37:47.ultimate ambition if it acts as a capitalist, from all parts of

:37:48. > :37:52.society is. That is why it has been so important to see real action over

:37:53. > :37:56.the last month from business and civil society. For example, a new

:37:57. > :38:05.initiative, Mr innovation will see some of the economies doubling

:38:06. > :38:09.investments in clean energy research and development. Private investors

:38:10. > :38:15.will join us and is endeavored to bring down the cost of low carbon

:38:16. > :38:18.technologies. Here, in the UK, we have committed to double spending

:38:19. > :38:24.and clean energy research development so that by 2020, will be

:38:25. > :38:29.spending in excess of ?400 million. This has been amassed by 19 other

:38:30. > :38:33.countries worldwide. This is in recognition of the fact that the

:38:34. > :38:41.wildly tackle climate change if we find technologies that are both

:38:42. > :38:43.clean and cheap. Let me tell you, the announcement I made last month,

:38:44. > :38:50.that I would set out proposals to close the hole by 2025 and restricts

:38:51. > :38:56.use by 2023 added to momentum in Paris. The Paris agreement marks a

:38:57. > :39:01.historic turning point. It builds on protocol and for the first time as

:39:02. > :39:03.it provides a comprehensive framework and words not only

:39:04. > :39:08.developed countries, but nearly every country of the world, has

:39:09. > :39:13.committed to the global action needed to solve global problems. Of

:39:14. > :39:16.course it was hard fought, and it required a compromise to bring

:39:17. > :39:23.everybody with us, it has not solve every problem in the one ago. Now,

:39:24. > :39:27.we have to implement the commitments made. We should not underestimate

:39:28. > :39:31.the significance of what has been achieved. All parties have

:39:32. > :39:37.recognised that economic and global security required us to tackle

:39:38. > :39:41.climate change. All have come together to commit to a single goal.

:39:42. > :39:46.Net zero carbon emissions by the end of the century. All have agreed to

:39:47. > :39:50.set out plans to curb emissions and be held accountable for their

:39:51. > :39:54.actions. We have made a huge step forward in meeting our

:39:55. > :40:01.responsibilities, to this and our future generation. As the excellent

:40:02. > :40:13.executives Terry to the... Said, I used to say we can't, we must, we

:40:14. > :40:16.will, now I can say we did. Can I start by thinking the Secretary of

:40:17. > :40:23.State for her statement. And footage of you that she paid for the success

:40:24. > :40:28.of Secretary of State. She is right to recognise that the crockpot is

:40:29. > :40:33.consensus that has existed since 2008, helped to build that road to

:40:34. > :40:37.Paris and gave the UK its voice in the negotiations, it is a precious

:40:38. > :40:41.legacy for all of us. We must not allow it to fraction now. For the

:40:42. > :40:46.first time, leaders from nearly every country in abroad have come

:40:47. > :40:52.together, to cut carbon pollution and a of to a path for a cleaner and

:40:53. > :40:57.greener future. We have a common goal of building a carbon neutral

:40:58. > :41:02.global economy with a generation to reduce pollution, switch to cleaner

:41:03. > :41:06.energy, and all countries have agreed as she rightly recognised to

:41:07. > :41:13.raise their ambition every five years into the future until the job

:41:14. > :41:16.is done. In is welcome of the Secretary of State made the point

:41:17. > :41:22.that the developed world would do with her share to ensure that 100

:41:23. > :41:27.billion are financed to us is poorer and more portable country. This is a

:41:28. > :41:31.moment to celebrate. Not because this is sufficient, we must be

:41:32. > :41:35.honest that the pledge is put forward by each country do not add

:41:36. > :41:44.up to a commitment that will keep temperature rises below 2 degrees, a

:41:45. > :41:51.gives us enough to take a us much closer to climate safety. The error

:41:52. > :42:01.of unchecked fossil you'll uses, to him and. We are stronger and safer

:42:02. > :42:05.when we work together both at home and abroad. Our voice has been heard

:42:06. > :42:09.because we have worked closely with our friends and the European Union,

:42:10. > :42:14.we have spoken to go there with them, and united with one voice. Our

:42:15. > :42:27.voice has been heard because, two of the heart of work and... They have

:42:28. > :42:30.worked tirelessly with the diplomats and the foreign office to secure

:42:31. > :42:35.this agreement. I would like to place on record our thanks for what

:42:36. > :42:39.they have achieved. And to command the dedication to the British

:42:40. > :42:43.scientist and the campaigners and evade groups in the business

:42:44. > :42:47.leaders, and civil society organizations to mobilise public

:42:48. > :42:50.support for this global deal, last month, myself and my Honorable

:42:51. > :42:55.friend Swan hundreds of thousands of people to march peacefully through

:42:56. > :43:01.the streets of London, and Edinburgh and other major cities of to ensure

:43:02. > :43:09.that our voice was heard in the rooms of Paris. The question now is

:43:10. > :43:13.what this deal means for Britain's. In recent months, the government has

:43:14. > :43:18.made a series of decisions that have set us back on the road to climate

:43:19. > :43:23.safety. Ministers have attacked the cheapest options for achieving

:43:24. > :43:29.carbon targets which means that energy bills to household may rise

:43:30. > :43:33.as a result. Last week, during the Paris negotiations, ministers

:43:34. > :43:36.decided to raise household and energy bills again to the capacity

:43:37. > :43:41.market auction which was the hundreds of millions of pounds, go

:43:42. > :43:46.to energy companies to keep open power stations that would have been

:43:47. > :43:50.opened anyway. It is difficult to see, how this is consistent with

:43:51. > :43:56.what the Secretary of State said today and her claim to be acting to

:43:57. > :44:00.control costs. Can she explain this today? And equally, ministers have

:44:01. > :44:17.undermined our progress on the cob and stories which will be crucial.

:44:18. > :44:20.In Yorkshire and Scotland, communities and engineers are

:44:21. > :44:26.reeling from the chancellors assistant to ask ?1 billion fund.

:44:27. > :44:30.Can see tell us today that this will be reverse? The government has

:44:31. > :44:35.wasted no time and blocking of new wind farms even where they enjoy

:44:36. > :44:39.strong local support of. They have made severe and short-sighted costs

:44:40. > :44:44.for energy efficiency and solar power scheme. Thousands have lost

:44:45. > :44:50.their jobs, thousands more could still. Millions will goal in this

:44:51. > :44:55.winter facing cold homes and high energy bills, in this country that

:44:56. > :45:00.is avoidable. The damnest to human life and the damage to the planet

:45:01. > :45:03.for these positions if the Mets. Following the prime minister of

:45:04. > :45:09.words in Paris, will she sell the house that the government as a whole

:45:10. > :45:12.will listen? To stop the sell-off of the green investment bank, in a

:45:13. > :45:17.manner that removes the mandate and means it is free to invest in fossil

:45:18. > :45:34.fuels, to stop the tax on more efficient vehicles and to stop

:45:35. > :45:38.another tax rate on the renewable energy industry, these are all steps

:45:39. > :45:40.that will take us back on climate change and jeopardise British jobs

:45:41. > :45:42.and industries for the future. Is raises the question, what is this

:45:43. > :45:44.government plans for meeting rings climate change. The committee form

:45:45. > :45:52.that British energy policy is failing and only this morning, it

:45:53. > :45:58.was called for more clarity. News of the Paris deal and the goal it

:45:59. > :46:02.contains, they told the BBC that businesses want to see domestic

:46:03. > :46:06.policies that demonstrate commitment to this goal. Can the Secretary of

:46:07. > :46:12.State confirm whether her governmental recent string, of the

:46:13. > :46:17.Carina will be reviewed in light of the new assurances that we have sent

:46:18. > :46:21.every country will play its part in addressing climate change. Secondly,

:46:22. > :46:26.candy and at his secretary confirmed that the UK will continue to support

:46:27. > :46:32.raising European targets on reducing carbon pollution by 2030 to ensure

:46:33. > :46:36.that they're making our fair constitution, and grasping the

:46:37. > :46:41.maximum potential for our economy for granted industries. Finally,

:46:42. > :46:45.will be an undersecretary asked the independent secretary on climate

:46:46. > :46:48.change to review the adequacy of Britain's existing carbon reduction

:46:49. > :46:54.targets and lights of the new international goal of limiting

:46:55. > :46:59.global temperature rises well below 2 degrees, I want to know more. Two

:47:00. > :47:04.weeks ago, the prime minister said, when we look back, we will ask what

:47:05. > :47:08.was it that was so difficult when the world was in peril. The

:47:09. > :47:14.Secretary of State said in her statement to the house there are no

:47:15. > :47:18.excuses. I look forward as to all my Honorable friend asked to hearing

:47:19. > :47:25.how she intends to breathe life into this historic landmark agreement.

:47:26. > :47:30.Low I thank her for her questions. I really welcome her support for the

:47:31. > :47:37.overall deal. And answered her questions I would point out to

:47:38. > :47:42.point. The first is that the UK's emissions are 1.2% of the world. Our

:47:43. > :47:46.emphasis must go on making sure that we get an international deal. That

:47:47. > :47:51.is why we were so committed. That is why we spent the past week trying to

:47:52. > :47:55.achieve its. Working to ensure that we got China into the deal which is

:47:56. > :48:02.26% of the world the mission was more than the EU in the US combined,

:48:03. > :48:07.we remain committed. And we commit to making sure that we golf forward

:48:08. > :48:10.on a low carbon future. There is no value in it if we do not have

:48:11. > :48:16.influence in the rest of the world, that is what we achieved this week.

:48:17. > :48:21.Making sure that that influence was absorbed and taken on, so that we

:48:22. > :48:25.could receive agreement while very late on Saturday night. In tones of

:48:26. > :48:29.answering her question on our position, we are committed to the

:48:30. > :48:34.climate change act and to our goals, and to our carbon budget. But the

:48:35. > :48:39.difference between her side of the house and ours, is that the will not

:48:40. > :48:44.risk the security of supply, and be will not put additional costs on

:48:45. > :48:47.consumers copy she asked about the capacity market and I am afraid that

:48:48. > :48:52.her and I am afraid that her interpretation is wrong. The

:48:53. > :48:56.capacity market is to take no risk when security of supply, that is

:48:57. > :49:01.what we have done and we are proud of doing that. In terms of the

:49:02. > :49:05.actions on renewables, this is about ensuring that our consumers that

:49:06. > :49:09.they pay the rent price for the renewables that we remain committed

:49:10. > :49:13.to. As the cost of renewables come down, it is absolutely right that

:49:14. > :49:21.the subsidies come down, it is completely wrong to characterize the

:49:22. > :49:28.eyes of -- is of having anything negative at all. We remain

:49:29. > :49:33.committed. It was a tight spending round with the spending review with

:49:34. > :49:37.the treasury, this was ?1 billion, and the fact that we made an

:49:38. > :49:41.invisible not to proceed with it, I believe that CCS will have a

:49:42. > :49:48.important part in the colonising in the future. Article he on industrial

:49:49. > :49:52.CCS. Will work internationally to make progress on that. This

:49:53. > :49:57.government is absolutely committed to the a low carbon future that is

:49:58. > :50:06.valued for money and costly provide security to consumers and families.

:50:07. > :50:12.As far as I'm aware, there are only two peer-reviewed studies which have

:50:13. > :50:19.computed the total reductions for admissions promised by the members

:50:20. > :50:23.Paris. Fan of them through the standard climate model and

:50:24. > :50:30.calculated the impact on future temperatures. Both have concluded

:50:31. > :50:39.that the temperature on 2100 as a result of this treaty will be a

:50:40. > :50:44.point to degrees of what it would be. With the joy of the pound be

:50:45. > :50:51.spent on as a small achievement be better spent on the alleviating

:50:52. > :50:57.poverty and eradicating disease? I think the right Honorable Thompson

:50:58. > :51:00.and for his questions. However, at the core of his question, is then

:51:01. > :51:07.suggested that what we are doing here does not alleviate poverty. On

:51:08. > :51:10.that, he cannot be more wrong. It is through climate finance and the

:51:11. > :51:14.investment that will be coming to the private sector as well that the

:51:15. > :51:18.government will be able to leverage, that we will help to alleviate

:51:19. > :51:26.poverty that we will provide energy and areas of Africa and India that

:51:27. > :51:32.had never happened before. I should gently point out that all of our

:51:33. > :51:36.right Honorable members who were not present at the start of the

:51:37. > :51:41.Secretary of State famous and not because. Now that I have made that

:51:42. > :51:51.point, it will be unseemly for them to continue to stand, as well as

:51:52. > :51:55.fruitless. I would like to add my thanks to the Secretary of State,

:51:56. > :52:01.her team, and all of those who have made this possible both at home and

:52:02. > :52:05.abroad, the term historic has been I think rightly so in terms of the

:52:06. > :52:10.rhetoric around this. Who will be judged not by the words, led by the

:52:11. > :52:14.deeds. If I can comment on that in this response to the statement. We

:52:15. > :52:19.very much welcome the money that is being contribution it to climate

:52:20. > :52:27.change, and those that contribute Alize to it. This deal is not

:52:28. > :52:31.perfect, it has been an that it is not enough. There needs to be an

:52:32. > :52:39.upping of our game at home and abroad if we will be meeting the

:52:40. > :52:49.target of 2 degrees or below. And any major upping of our game if we

:52:50. > :52:53.will meet 1.5 degrees. One gave an eloquent statement about the low

:52:54. > :52:59.carbon economy and the one who answered the questions and

:53:00. > :53:01.reiterated some of the appalling betrayals that the economy has

:53:02. > :53:07.suffered at the hands of the government. There is no excuse in

:53:08. > :53:18.the statement. For the last six months I have heard so many excuses.

:53:19. > :53:24.On carbon capture and storage, excuses. The green investment bank,

:53:25. > :53:27.more excuses. Will she rethink these policies, will she reinvest in them,

:53:28. > :53:45.or are we to hear more excuses the possibilities are enormous. Yet,

:53:46. > :53:52.we seem determined to throw away the lead that we have in various

:53:53. > :54:00.technologies, at a time when we are following the work that my Honorable

:54:01. > :54:08.friend have said, the government is penny wise but pound foolish. I have

:54:09. > :54:12.had to question my hearing that this carbon capture is going to have a

:54:13. > :54:16.Bright future. It may, but it will be technology developed by others,

:54:17. > :54:22.and others will make money out of it. That is sold short sighted, it

:54:23. > :54:26.is beyond belief. Scotland wants to play the part, had we can't play the

:54:27. > :54:32.part, but be required of government to match the weather up with it the.

:54:33. > :54:39.-- will she allow us to play our part or will we hear more excuses? I

:54:40. > :54:45.do not agree with the characterize patients. I share his enthusiasm,

:54:46. > :54:48.for the low carbon economy but we are going about this in a different

:54:49. > :54:52.way, we are making sure that we deliver better value for money, and

:54:53. > :54:57.we are investing in the future in a way that has not been done over the

:54:58. > :55:00.25 years. For instance, with nuclear, and also with offshore

:55:01. > :55:04.wind, which I'm sure he would support. We must support the low

:55:05. > :55:09.carbon economy while also maintaining security of supply. I'm

:55:10. > :55:14.sure he would also continue to support

:55:15. > :55:21.My right honourable friend who called me to my concerns and they

:55:22. > :55:23.talk about other countries commitments to climate targets. What

:55:24. > :55:27.will my right honourable friend tell me ahead to encourage other

:55:28. > :55:33.countries to meet their climate targets? I think the honourable Lady

:55:34. > :55:37.for that question. She is right that not all countries have the same

:55:38. > :55:40.resources as we have to meet those targets. I am happy to say that we

:55:41. > :55:44.have a number of tools of which we offer to work with other countries,

:55:45. > :55:47.which is very helpful for them, such as the global calculator which helps

:55:48. > :55:53.them work out what steps they need to take to meet their targets. We

:55:54. > :55:58.expect to step up that engagement to help them meet their targets. Mr

:55:59. > :56:03.Speaker, can the Secretary of State for her role in this agreement. In

:56:04. > :56:07.particular, the formation of the so-called high ambition Coalition

:56:08. > :56:09.between developed countries and vulnerable countries, which is such

:56:10. > :56:13.an important part of getting the deal that she did. If I can put it

:56:14. > :56:16.this way, I think we want her on this site am I to be part of a high

:56:17. > :56:23.ambition Coalition at home as well as abroad. In that context she

:56:24. > :56:26.mentioned zero emissions and the important goal of net zero emissions

:56:27. > :56:29.that is contained in the agreement, I believe the second half of the

:56:30. > :56:34.century. Canty confirmed that that will apply not just globally come

:56:35. > :56:38.about will apply to the tent every country that his signature he to be

:56:39. > :56:42.agreement? I thank the right honourable gentleman for his words

:56:43. > :56:44.and I share his enthusiasm nationally for high ambition.

:56:45. > :56:48.Perhaps less of a Coalition for now. I would also say it is a great

:56:49. > :56:54.achievement to have the zero emissions target. Within the

:56:55. > :56:58.long-term goal. For now I think as far as the UK's concern we will

:56:59. > :57:07.continue to focus on our climate change targets for 2015. Thank you

:57:08. > :57:12.Mr Speaker. Given the UK's climate change laws are stricter am a down

:57:13. > :57:16.to the obligations agreed in Paris, does my right honourable friend

:57:17. > :57:21.agreed that there is a really risk of bridges business being put at

:57:22. > :57:23.eight competitive disadvantage -- a competitive disadvantage if we do

:57:24. > :57:30.not cut the cost of energy, particularly for energy intensive

:57:31. > :57:35.companies. He is right to highlight the issue of competitiveness. Defect

:57:36. > :57:37.is getting this global deal is a way of addressing the issue of

:57:38. > :57:41.competitiveness, because other countries will have to step up and

:57:42. > :57:45.make the same sort of plans that we are doing -- the fact is. The best

:57:46. > :57:49.way to reduce the cost of energy is to make sure that the energy itself

:57:50. > :57:54.is less costly by driving down the cost and the sort of actions that

:57:55. > :57:57.this government has taken. Thank you Mr Speaker. And all the acres of

:57:58. > :58:03.media covers with the Paris agreement, I think it's on the test

:58:04. > :58:05.as comparison to what could have been a Mirko, by comparison to what

:58:06. > :58:10.it should have been it's a disaster. I welcome the inclusion of the goal,

:58:11. > :58:13.but that is meaningless without to deliver it. In particular keeping

:58:14. > :58:17.the vast majority of fossil fuels on the ground. Can she tell us how the

:58:18. > :58:22.government's recently agreed duty to maximise economic recovery of oil

:58:23. > :58:25.and gas is anything other than completely incompatible with what

:58:26. > :58:32.she just signed up to in Paris? Good to interpret that as a cautious

:58:33. > :58:35.welcome from the honourable Lady. There is an element of this deal

:58:36. > :58:39.which you must agree is rather extraordinary, having 200 countries

:58:40. > :58:45.participate copy the answer to your question is that we cannot take any

:58:46. > :58:47.risk at all with energy security. Maximum economic recovery is

:58:48. > :58:51.absolutely a commitment from this government. We have to get a balance

:58:52. > :58:57.right. We have to make sure that we can protect energy security while

:58:58. > :59:06.growing our low carbon economy. Mr Speaker, we can do both. Thank you

:59:07. > :59:09.Mr Speaker. I congratulate the Secretary of State and her team for

:59:10. > :59:12.what they achieved in Paris. She will be aware that since 1990 the UK

:59:13. > :59:18.has decreased emissions by around 10%, faster than the EU. Other

:59:19. > :59:20.countries within the EU, had difficulty achieving anything like

:59:21. > :59:26.that. In the Austria, Holland, Maine, Portugal have all increased

:59:27. > :59:31.commissions since 1990 -- Spain. What policy exists as within the EU

:59:32. > :59:36.to make sure that is not allowed to continue? Mr Speaker, the honourable

:59:37. > :59:41.gentleman who is so experienced in this field has highlighted the issue

:59:42. > :59:46.of the use sharing response abilities which we will move to next

:59:47. > :59:49.year. I don't doubt this will be a challenging negotiation, but the

:59:50. > :59:51.UK's experience is that we can demonstrates our leadership by

:59:52. > :59:56.showing that we have driven down emissions while growing our economy

:59:57. > :00:01.and we hope we'll be able to demonstrates at two other countries

:00:02. > :00:05.and encourage them to follow suit. Chair of the select committee. Hear,

:00:06. > :00:08.hear! Firstly, can I thank the Secretary

:00:09. > :00:13.of State for a statement and congratulate her on the involvement

:00:14. > :00:16.in the Paris talks. Will she take the chance to review and reset the

:00:17. > :00:22.last six months of policy of our government? The cheapest funds of

:00:23. > :00:27.the generation, renewable generation, energy efficiency and

:00:28. > :00:29.CCS, all cut. Will she look again at the diesel generator loopholes and

:00:30. > :00:38.make sure that transportation plays a full part with Mike I feel that

:00:39. > :00:41.this government has been, as they viewed to government has cost to

:00:42. > :00:44.date rather than saving for the future. Especially when it comes to

:00:45. > :00:48.be clear. Just what will change in her department due to be Paris

:00:49. > :00:51.talks? Hear, hear! I am happy to say that the Paris

:00:52. > :00:55.agreement allows us to continue on the path that this government has

:00:56. > :01:01.set. In terms of delivering a low carbon future and sticking to our

:01:02. > :01:04.climate change act commitment, but also always make a show that we take

:01:05. > :01:12.no risk with security and provide value for money for consumers. Thank

:01:13. > :01:16.you Mr Speaker. May I congratulate my right honourable friend on what

:01:17. > :01:20.has been achieved and also the French government for magnificent

:01:21. > :01:24.hosting of this summit. Given that, a lot of the climate finance pledged

:01:25. > :01:33.by the wealthy nations is likely to be classified as ODA. Given many of

:01:34. > :01:35.our friends in Europe so no sign of increasing the percentage of ODA

:01:36. > :01:39.that they are giving as a percentage of their gross national income. Is

:01:40. > :01:43.she concerned that some of this climate finance may be actually

:01:44. > :01:47.taking away from the amount available on a for instance, for the

:01:48. > :01:51.refugee crisis in Syria and other concerns around the world? Mr

:01:52. > :01:54.Speaker, the honourable gentleman is right. My honourable friend is right

:01:55. > :02:00.to praise the French government, who managed this in an extraordinarily

:02:01. > :02:06.able way with great diplomatic skill. I would say the issue of the

:02:07. > :02:09.$100 billion to be mobilised by 2020 is a challenging one for everyone

:02:10. > :02:13.involved. And it is something that we will constantly return to to

:02:14. > :02:17.ensure that it is delivered, but do not forget it is also mobilised. Is

:02:18. > :02:20.not entirely the government to deliver it is also an attempt to

:02:21. > :02:26.generate private-sector influence as well. Thank you Mr Speaker. I would

:02:27. > :02:30.like to add my congratulations to all those involved in these

:02:31. > :02:36.important talks in Paris. One of the most are mockable things about the

:02:37. > :02:39.aspirations to hold reductions to one and a half degrees --

:02:40. > :02:45.remarkable. As it was said, the Paris process adds political

:02:46. > :02:48.pressure to emissions reduction. Would she like to apply some of that

:02:49. > :02:53.political pressure to be Chancellor of the Exchequer, who said the other

:02:54. > :03:00.day that he hadn't inherited anything and the decision of carbon

:03:01. > :03:05.capture is not to cut. I think I will welcome the honourable Lady's

:03:06. > :03:09.comments. About the ambition that we have, which was also referred to

:03:10. > :03:13.earlier, in terms of the 1.5 degrees which was achieved in working

:03:14. > :03:19.closely with the high ambition Coalition. Mr Speaker, it is no

:03:20. > :03:26.longer a question of whether but when will tackle man's impact on the

:03:27. > :03:29.climate. It is a huge achievement to have included developing economies

:03:30. > :03:35.in the ambition. Moreover to make that ambition a relisted one. What

:03:36. > :03:40.part having play in accelerating our need for game changing technology,

:03:41. > :03:46.and what part of clean energy that will produce at Hinkley Point in

:03:47. > :03:55.Somerset will happen in the process? He is right. The distinguishing

:03:56. > :03:57.factor is that it includes developing countries. We are

:03:58. > :04:01.committed to ensure that we work across other governments to develop

:04:02. > :04:04.new energy sources in our particular programme of mission innovation, but

:04:05. > :04:09.I do also agree that nuclear, including Hinkley Point which is the

:04:10. > :04:12.first nuclear deal to be commissioned for 25 years, is going

:04:13. > :04:19.to be an important part of the low carbon future. The Secretary of

:04:20. > :04:22.State is correct in wanting a level playing field between this country

:04:23. > :04:28.and other countries. At the failure of Paris to reach the aspirations of

:04:29. > :04:34.the German conference to have legally bought binding limits on

:04:35. > :04:37.carving dioxide admissions for all countries, so he puts us at when we

:04:38. > :04:46.do have legally binding commitments. We've already lost great talks of

:04:47. > :04:50.the Armenian industry. How to produce that level playing field to

:04:51. > :04:55.the advantage of our industries? Hear,

:04:56. > :04:59.The honourable Bob gentleman raises an important point. I would say

:05:00. > :05:02.although there are some elements that are not legally binding, there

:05:03. > :05:06.are plenty that are. The fact is that every country has to come at

:05:07. > :05:10.every five years and did demonstrate what they are doing. There will be,

:05:11. > :05:15.I help, and political moment at that point. NGOs, civil society,

:05:16. > :05:18.businesses, watching and campaigning to make sure that we always make

:05:19. > :05:22.progress. Countries cannot go back on the commitments, that can only go

:05:23. > :05:26.forward. I say do not yet underestimate the impact this will

:05:27. > :05:30.have internationally. Thank you Mr Speaker. Can I add my

:05:31. > :05:34.congratulations to the Secretary of State and all those who worked many

:05:35. > :05:37.years on achieving an impressive outcome. But can the Secretary of

:05:38. > :05:40.State confirm whether the success criteria set before the conference

:05:41. > :05:47.were actually achieved at the conference? A good question from my

:05:48. > :05:50.honour will friend. I can say that most of our criteria were met. But

:05:51. > :05:53.nobody will have left that conference saying that all of that

:05:54. > :05:57.criteria were met. That is how we got a deal. Everybody had to cover

:05:58. > :06:03.my day little. That was the achievement of the agreement. I

:06:04. > :06:06.thank the Secretary of State for what is a landmark statement and

:06:07. > :06:13.congratulate her on her personal stamina at 4am, and what she paid to

:06:14. > :06:17.her predecessors of all political parties. I think she will agree that

:06:18. > :06:24.the fact that Europe spoke at the one voice was a significant part of

:06:25. > :06:27.the process -- but as one voice. Nonetheless, there is still

:06:28. > :06:30.consistency needed. Does he agree it is essential that we go to harass

:06:31. > :06:36.and sign up ambitious targets, but yet the inconsistency had a

:06:37. > :06:41.meaningful role, signed in a last Parliament to deal with climate

:06:42. > :06:47.change back at home? I would say that the success of the Paris

:06:48. > :06:50.agreement was intended nationally determined contributions that each

:06:51. > :06:54.country had to make and come forward with to participate. Almost every

:06:55. > :06:59.country had done that by the date of the agreement. These are voluntary.

:07:00. > :07:03.Very few countries criticised each other. Each country delivers in

:07:04. > :07:10.their only. That is what the UK is going to do and that is what we will

:07:11. > :07:13.continue to do. Mr Speaker, on current taint of uncontrolled

:07:14. > :07:16.immigration, this country will have a population of 30 million more by

:07:17. > :07:23.the end of the century -- current change. What effect does he think

:07:24. > :07:26.that will have on our emissions? I can reassure the honourable

:07:27. > :07:32.gentleman that the big influence, the most of our CO2 emissions, it is

:07:33. > :07:36.generally from the power sector and from industry and we will constantly

:07:37. > :07:42.be monitoring them in order to enable us to have continued

:07:43. > :07:44.reductions. And I commended the Secretary of State and her officials

:07:45. > :07:48.for the part they played in securing the Paris agreement? With that

:07:49. > :07:52.agreement now in place, printable if anything need to be born ambitious

:07:53. > :07:54.when it comes to emissions reductions -- Britain's. And we have

:07:55. > :07:59.been. Yet we know the government are struggling to meet their renewables

:08:00. > :08:03.target, when it comes to heat and transport. As in certain areas we

:08:04. > :08:06.know be chancellor ultimately cause the shots copy will she let the

:08:07. > :08:10.House know what progress she has made in persuading her honourable

:08:11. > :08:13.friend to do more to the that sector? Hear, hear!

:08:14. > :08:17.The honourable gentleman is absolutely right with the renewables

:08:18. > :08:21.target, the talented heat and transport. I can ensure that I am

:08:22. > :08:25.working closely with the Secretary of State for Transport and local

:08:26. > :08:31.government to put together a plan to ensure that we can make that target.

:08:32. > :08:36.Thank you Mr Speaker. Secretary of State will be aware that a large

:08:37. > :08:39.percentage still come from coal-fired power. Get to give some

:08:40. > :08:43.results as she moves to our low carbon future that consumers prices

:08:44. > :08:51.will remain affordable as well as the continued to supply, but also

:08:52. > :08:55.carbon linkage? I can reassure my honourable friend that we would in

:08:56. > :08:59.no way sacrifice our security of supply as we move towards a low

:09:00. > :09:03.carbon economy. But I can also tell him that putting and end date is an

:09:04. > :09:08.important part of making sure that we do meet our low-carb future --

:09:09. > :09:11.low carbon future. We should be proud that this is the first

:09:12. > :09:18.developed country to put an end date on it. Hear, hear!

:09:19. > :09:24.Can I ask the secretary of state whether she has full confidence that

:09:25. > :09:26.there really will be adherent in terms of the funding commitments and

:09:27. > :09:31.the action plans that governments have signed up to. And I commend her

:09:32. > :09:38.on her statement on the work that went down to this agreement which

:09:39. > :09:42.uses human rights language in a stronger way than before. And any

:09:43. > :09:50.environmental agreement. How confident is she? The honourable

:09:51. > :09:53.gentleman is right that the financial contributions, the $100

:09:54. > :09:57.billion by 2020, were a key element of bringing on developing countries

:09:58. > :10:01.would have never participated before in this sort of commitment. I would

:10:02. > :10:05.say to him that it is one side of the agreement and it is absolutely

:10:06. > :10:09.essential that we do deliver on that. But it is not just governments

:10:10. > :10:14.who would do it, but businesses as well. I think the success of the

:10:15. > :10:20.business, of the agreement over the next 5-15 years will be tested if it

:10:21. > :10:22.doesn't happen. Thank you Mr Speaker. I congratulate the

:10:23. > :10:25.Secretary of State and her whole team for the part they played in

:10:26. > :10:29.reaching this historic deal. She will know that it is not only about

:10:30. > :10:33.acting globally, but locally. I wonder if she would join me in

:10:34. > :10:39.paying tribute to community groups all around the country who are very

:10:40. > :10:44.keen to meet with her to talk further about the role they can play

:10:45. > :10:50.taking these goals further. I would always be delighted. She is of

:10:51. > :10:53.course right that it is much more effective if these actions are taken

:10:54. > :11:00.locally, nationally, but above all not top-down, internationally. Will

:11:01. > :11:08.she bridge her rhetoric to reality by announcing investments in the

:11:09. > :11:13.Swansea, Cardiff, and Newport, title game which will exploit and for the

:11:14. > :11:20.first time ever, neglect immense power of the tides which are

:11:21. > :11:32.entirely predictable and when linked to power schemes, are response will

:11:33. > :11:39.that? Tidal power is green, not carbon, and eternal. The honourable

:11:40. > :11:43.judgement is right that we are looking closely at the opportunity

:11:44. > :11:47.for title power. We are in due diligence now. If we meet the

:11:48. > :11:52.targets of being secure, clean, and affordable that we will certainly be

:11:53. > :11:58.taking it very seriously. Thank you Mr Speaker. What assessment has she

:11:59. > :12:06.made of the UK energy markets capacity to replace innovative call

:12:07. > :12:09.by the cutoff date of 2020? I think my honourable friend for the

:12:10. > :12:12.question. We will be doing a consultation at the beginning of

:12:13. > :12:16.next year in order to address that. I have been very clear in the policy

:12:17. > :12:21.choices I said out that we expect to bring on more gas in order to cover

:12:22. > :12:26.some of that call that will be coming off. Thank you Mr Speaker.

:12:27. > :12:30.Investors in renewable energy tell me that they want a certainty from

:12:31. > :12:34.the government's energy policy. I wonder if the Secretary of State

:12:35. > :12:40.could the David Teague -- could set out the key milestones consider any

:12:41. > :12:46.Paris agreement for the announcement to be made in renewables? A lot of

:12:47. > :12:49.our targets have not changed as a result of the Paris agreement I'm a

:12:50. > :12:52.although of course I would discuss with them closely within my

:12:53. > :12:59.department. We have already set up our plans. We will be setting out

:13:00. > :13:04.shortly our plans for solar. Thank you Mr Speaker. The Scottish first

:13:05. > :13:08.Minister announced a ?12 million adjustment in addition to the

:13:09. > :13:14.Scottish government's announcement. What new money for adaptation is

:13:15. > :13:20.being used as a world so -- result of the agreement? Is the Speaker, I

:13:21. > :13:23.think my right honour will friend, the Prime Minister, has been

:13:24. > :13:27.cleared. As I said my earlier comments he has already announced a

:13:28. > :13:35.50% increase in our climate fund. That is being welcomed by developing

:13:36. > :13:38.countries. Thank you Mr Speaker. With the Secretary of State agree

:13:39. > :13:43.with me that this is really good news? The really hard work now

:13:44. > :13:50.begins, turning aspiration into action. Will I tell her, and will

:13:51. > :13:53.she agree with me, that we've got to maintain the view that this country

:13:54. > :14:00.has had for some time of sharing intellectual property and innovation

:14:01. > :14:06.with many other countries, entering to a Council committee on

:14:07. > :14:10.sustainable production. Shares with other countries innovation that

:14:11. > :14:13.could reduce their carbon emissions. He is like. Having that shared

:14:14. > :14:19.vision across different countries is essential. Actually, the technology

:14:20. > :14:22.section within the agreement is very important to some of the developing

:14:23. > :14:27.countries to give confidence and. I would also add that we have doubled

:14:28. > :14:31.our spent on innovation spending and energy to join the Americans and

:14:32. > :14:34.other developed countries with image innovation, which is all about

:14:35. > :14:42.sharing, investment and technology discoveries. Thank you Mr Speaker.

:14:43. > :14:46.Can I congratulate the Secretary of State on her role in achieving this

:14:47. > :14:51.historic agreement. But in doing so, can I say to her that she except

:14:52. > :14:57.that if the government is going to meet its commitment and show some

:14:58. > :15:02.leadership in the world, then it's got to challenge the process of

:15:03. > :15:05.renewable energies. In particular, onshore wind. It was a cautious

:15:06. > :15:09.parliament from the honourable gentleman. I would say that is not

:15:10. > :15:12.what I found internationally. When I discussed it with other ministers,

:15:13. > :15:16.what I found was a lot of interest in what we were doing to drive down

:15:17. > :15:20.the cost of renewables. Renewables should not have a subsidy for ever.

:15:21. > :15:25.The point is to try and engage with the industry so that they have a

:15:26. > :15:31.lower-cost. The success of a truly deep carbonized low carbon,

:15:32. > :15:35.international economy will be when Green energy really reduces and

:15:36. > :15:41.cost. I have long been a supporter of cooperative immunity renewable

:15:42. > :15:44.energy schemes. Met with one such company last week they tell me the

:15:45. > :15:49.uncertainty that the government provided has caused problems for

:15:50. > :15:52.planning any future. How will she provide policy certainty photos who

:15:53. > :15:55.want to play our bit in meeting this agreement? Hear, hear!

:15:56. > :16:00.I would remind the honourable gentleman that costs increases for

:16:01. > :16:06.solar panels over the last 20 years have come down by 80% -- costs for

:16:07. > :16:08.solar panels. I will surely be making an announcement about what

:16:09. > :16:12.that will be coming down to going forward. I'm sure he will be

:16:13. > :16:18.interested in that result. A statement. The Secretary of State

:16:19. > :16:22.for Transport. With permission, Mr Speaker, I'd like to make a

:16:23. > :16:25.statement about airport policy. Aviation is a British success story.

:16:26. > :16:30.Today we have the third-largest aviation network in world. Second

:16:31. > :16:35.only to be United States and China. Went with that success comes

:16:36. > :16:42.charges. Heathrow is down, Gatwick is going up. The entire London

:16:43. > :16:46.system will be full by 2014. Yet we need new connections to new cities

:16:47. > :16:49.in the new economies. There are other challenges too. Airports

:16:50. > :16:55.create jobs and opportunities. Technology is changing. Planes are

:16:56. > :16:59.becoming quieter and more efficient. But there is still inevitably, and

:17:00. > :17:05.environmental impact. For some, the argument seems simple. Opposed all

:17:06. > :17:10.expansion anywhere, or back it but always somewhere else. Yes, there

:17:11. > :17:17.are opportunities in the network of the national airports with global

:17:18. > :17:19.connections from cities such as Birmingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow,

:17:20. > :17:24.Manchester, and Newcastle. But growth year will, alongside world in

:17:25. > :17:28.the Southeast. -- growth here. Not instead of it. Which is why in

:17:29. > :17:34.September 2012, Sir Heron Davis was asked to leads the commission. His

:17:35. > :17:37.final report was published less than six months ago and made a strong

:17:38. > :17:43.case for expansion in the Southeast. We have considered that evidence.

:17:44. > :17:46.The government accepts the case for expansion. And the government

:17:47. > :17:51.accepts that the airports commission short list of options or expansion.

:17:52. > :17:56.Will begin work straightaway on preparing the building blocks from

:17:57. > :18:01.airport national policy statement in line with the planning act of 2008.

:18:02. > :18:07.Thing this new framework in place. Will be essential groundwork for it

:18:08. > :18:11.implement them of the decision we take, wherever the new capacity is

:18:12. > :18:16.to be built. That is the issue I want to turn to now. To Howard Davis

:18:17. > :18:21.and his team produced a powerful report. Heathrow airport scheme was

:18:22. > :18:25.recommended by the airports commission, but all three schemes

:18:26. > :18:30.were deemed viable. We are continuing to consider all three

:18:31. > :18:36.schemes. We want to see action. But we must get the next steps right.

:18:37. > :18:40.Also those, keen to push ahead with expansion and for those who will be

:18:41. > :18:45.affected by it. So we will undertake a package of overwork. First, we

:18:46. > :18:51.must deal with air quality. I want to build confidence so expansion can

:18:52. > :18:54.take place within the legal limits. So we will accept the environmental

:18:55. > :19:00.audit committee's recommendation to test commission's work against the

:19:01. > :19:03.government's new air quality plans. Second, we must deal with concerns

:19:04. > :19:09.about noise. I want to get the best possible outcome for this, for local

:19:10. > :19:13.residents. So I will engage further with the promoters to make sure the

:19:14. > :19:18.best package of noise mitigation measures are in place. Third, we

:19:19. > :19:24.must deal with carbon emissions, so we will look at all the measures to

:19:25. > :19:25.mitigate urban impact and address the sustainability concerns

:19:26. > :19:31.particularly during construction. Fourth, we must manage the other

:19:32. > :19:34.impacts on local communities. I want people who stand to lose their homes

:19:35. > :19:38.to be properly compensated for the impact of expansion. And I want

:19:39. > :19:44.local people to have the best access to the opportunities that expansion

:19:45. > :19:47.will bring, including new jobs and apprenticeships. So we will develop

:19:48. > :19:52.detailed community mitigation measures for each of the short list

:19:53. > :19:56.options. We expect to conclude this package to work by the summer.

:19:57. > :20:02.Critically, this means delivering the timetable for the additional

:20:03. > :20:07.capacity set out by Sahara, does not alter. The commission reported that

:20:08. > :20:14.an additional runway would be a requirement I2030 and we intend to

:20:15. > :20:17.meet that. I am fully aware that some will wish we will go further.

:20:18. > :20:21.And others will wish we are making no such progress at all. We are

:20:22. > :20:28.prepared for that. I want to get this decision right. That means

:20:29. > :20:32.getting the environment respond right and in the meantime, getting

:20:33. > :20:36.on with the hard work to build a new capacity to the timetable set out by

:20:37. > :20:42.Sir Howard in the commissions report. Mr Speaker, I commend the

:20:43. > :20:47.statement to be housed. Hear, hear! Speaker Mac I think the Secretary of

:20:48. > :20:50.State for the side of his statement. He should not have fallen to

:20:51. > :20:53.announce that the Prime Minister has broken the clear promise he gave to

:20:54. > :20:59.the House in July. When he said that the guarantee that I can give is

:21:00. > :21:02.that a decision will be made by the end of the year. So my first

:21:03. > :21:07.question is simple. Why is it the Prime Minister explaining his own

:21:08. > :21:12.U-turn? Mr Speaker, my response is very limited due to the brevity of

:21:13. > :21:17.his statement, but I want to register our protest to the

:21:18. > :21:20.government's decision to announce this decision through the press. The

:21:21. > :21:24.Secretary of State said that when an announcement is to be made he would

:21:25. > :21:28.make it in the House, but instead we got a last-minute note from our

:21:29. > :21:34.crisis Prime Minister explaining why he couldn't meet his own deadline.

:21:35. > :21:36.That shambolic announcement on Thursday has rightly been condemned

:21:37. > :21:41.by businesses and honourable members on both sides of the House. Hear,

:21:42. > :21:44.hear! Mr Speaker, we need a new runway in

:21:45. > :21:48.the southeast, but the environmental concerns have been known since July.

:21:49. > :21:52.So what has he been doing for the last six months? The government's

:21:53. > :21:56.announcement was such in shambles that the secretary of state do not

:21:57. > :22:02.do is basic information about the new environmental and mitigation

:22:03. > :22:06.more. What are the areas east believes still need to be addressed

:22:07. > :22:10.-- he believes? Who will be leading this work? What are the terms of

:22:11. > :22:14.reference and will look report? If you cannot answer these basic

:22:15. > :22:19.questions, is it not confirmation that the government has amended

:22:20. > :22:21.everything but the pretense of following due process? And that the

:22:22. > :22:26.Prime Minister broke this promise because he is avoiding a by election

:22:27. > :22:31.in Richmond ahead of the national interest? Hear, hear!

:22:32. > :22:34.Turning to another issue raised by a statement, the government has always

:22:35. > :22:38.said that the subcommittees recommendations will be subject to a

:22:39. > :22:41.full Cabinet discussion. Has that discussion taking place? Or have his

:22:42. > :22:47.colleagues been left as much in the dark as the rest of the House?

:22:48. > :22:51.Finally, what steps is he now taking to address the plight and

:22:52. > :22:57.uncertainty that this lake politically motivated delay will

:22:58. > :23:01.cause? Hear, hear! Mr Speaker, I find it rather hard to

:23:02. > :23:07.except from the honourable lady that somehow we are taking too long with

:23:08. > :23:13.this matter. Perhaps I would like to go for a little bit of the history.

:23:14. > :23:15.In 2001, Labour ministers reported to be seriously considering building

:23:16. > :23:20.a third runway. LAUGHTER At Heathrow. To relieve the

:23:21. > :23:25.increasing congested in London. In December 2003, the then transport

:23:26. > :23:29.Secretary publishes a white paper pulling for a third runway in a six

:23:30. > :23:35.Tom Reynolds at Heathrow to be included within 12 years -- six

:23:36. > :23:40.runway. In 2007, a public consultation document firmly in

:23:41. > :23:46.favour of Heathrow to accommodate a new runway of 220,000 flights a

:23:47. > :23:51.year. In 2009, the government approves a third runway taking the

:23:52. > :23:57.number of flights and all by the airport from 480 house and --

:23:58. > :24:01.480,000 to more than 700,000 a year. So I don't think the party opposite

:24:02. > :24:08.complaining about the time that we are taking to come to a decision on

:24:09. > :24:16.a very thorough report is worthy. Indeed, the Leader of the Opposition

:24:17. > :24:20.seems to think so as well. Because he gave an interview on sky

:24:21. > :24:25.television last Thursday. And he was asked a question by a correspondent,

:24:26. > :24:28.I think people are a little confused at the moment about exactly what

:24:29. > :24:32.labour's policy on Heathrow specifically is. Can you clarify for

:24:33. > :24:37.us? It is the labour position? Leader of the Opposition. The

:24:38. > :24:42.position is that we put these questions on how we go ahead with

:24:43. > :24:45.airport expansion on the basis of capacity across the Southeast copy

:24:46. > :24:48.on the basis of need for a hug and of course the effects on

:24:49. > :24:52.neighbouring communities. And the environment noise. Those answers

:24:53. > :24:56.have to be given before any decision can be taken. About where expansion

:24:57. > :25:02.should be going. There we are then. A gets better. So correspondence, so

:25:03. > :25:06.at the moment you don't have a position on Heathrow specifically.

:25:07. > :25:10.Leader of the Opposition, at the moment, that is our position.

:25:11. > :25:16.LAUGHTER Was it yours? Mr Speaker, I don't

:25:17. > :25:21.think I will think too many lectures about getting the timescale right.

:25:22. > :25:29.What I said in my statement and what I stand by and the statement is so

:25:30. > :25:33.Howard said that there needs to be a conclusion on the runway available

:25:34. > :25:37.for operation by 2013. Even on the timetable I've announced today that

:25:38. > :25:42.is well within possibilities of the programme that we are talking

:25:43. > :25:50.specifically, in right demand light of the 2008 planning act, which is

:25:51. > :25:54.was of course has by the last labour government -- in light of the 2008

:25:55. > :25:58.planning act. The previous commission led by Lord Justice

:25:59. > :26:02.Roscoe, his recommendation was not accepted by the government of the

:26:03. > :26:08.day. Is it not right to take time to consider two aspects. One is the

:26:09. > :26:13.very weak section of the environmental aspect of developing

:26:14. > :26:19.Heathrow. But also to address the fundamental contradiction that if it

:26:20. > :26:20.is right to have a hub airport in London, Paris runways simply doesn't

:26:21. > :26:30.suffice? I am grateful to my Honorable friend

:26:31. > :26:34.who has covered this issue for a lot longer than anybody else in the

:26:35. > :26:39.house. The points he makes are valid points which we need to address.

:26:40. > :26:44.There are no doubts about the capacity to what is happening as far

:26:45. > :26:48.as aviation and airport and aircraft movements are concerned. It is

:26:49. > :26:51.something that I am incredibly grateful, not only to Davis, but to

:26:52. > :26:55.the rest of the commission for the work that they have done in

:26:56. > :27:03.producing a valuable report on which he will be able to come to

:27:04. > :27:09.conclusions in due course. Can I think the Secretary of State for the

:27:10. > :27:13.early sight of his statement? In Scotland 90% of international

:27:14. > :27:19.visitors travel by air, a third of those come through Heathrow has a

:27:20. > :27:28.hub. Salmon, shelve this, and whiskey are vital to the economy in.

:27:29. > :27:34.-- shellfish. The UK government have known all of long all of the

:27:35. > :27:37.environmental issues, they could have chosen Heathrow, Gatwick or

:27:38. > :27:43.something new. All with environmental conditions. They could

:27:44. > :27:46.have chosen nothing at all, indecision stops everybody from

:27:47. > :27:51.action. It keeps people and communities, it is not just in

:27:52. > :27:58.Scotland, it is not just me saying this. Let me quote the Minister of

:27:59. > :28:05.State from June 2015. He said, "We cannot afford to stall on making a

:28:06. > :28:10.position any longer, travel industry when driving indicates a thriving

:28:11. > :28:15.economy. They must support the growth of the travel industry. " as

:28:16. > :28:22.the Prime Minister of the head of the government has made clear, by

:28:23. > :28:26.the end of this year, 2015, and D the Secretary of State in October

:28:27. > :28:34.2012, when he said, he will be able to make recommendations in 2013.

:28:35. > :28:39.Some people say it will take a long time, it will not take that long,

:28:40. > :28:46.once they get under way. As he said to the conservative party, in

:28:47. > :28:53.October 2012 in his speech, there is another area where we have to help

:28:54. > :28:56.businesses as well. That the will be to compete internationally. The

:28:57. > :29:01.runways are filling up at the Jets are circling our skies. That it's

:29:02. > :29:05.hitting our prosperity, it is bad for the environment, it is putting

:29:06. > :29:12.off investors and costing jobs. It is holding Britain back. This piece

:29:13. > :29:20.to the conservative party conference, I do not have the

:29:21. > :29:25.talents met a deputy speaker. The Prime Minister has told this house

:29:26. > :29:44.that we will have it this implies. Let me ask this. Hear, Hear order!

:29:45. > :29:48.Order! The Secretary of State. I was taken, I'd thought the Honorable

:29:49. > :29:54.member was still in his various announcement. One of the things that

:29:55. > :29:58.my Honorable friend has just said, he was in a holding position, one of

:29:59. > :30:04.the things that he did not tell us was which scheme he supports, or

:30:05. > :30:08.indeed which airport he supports, he has failed to do that, what I have

:30:09. > :30:15.said is that it is right, this is a very big issue, it has with the

:30:16. > :30:19.government for many will years. We do want to do further work on some

:30:20. > :30:22.of the environmental impacts, bearing in mind of recent

:30:23. > :30:26.developments which have happened. I would have thought that, the house

:30:27. > :30:31.would have accepted at that bearing in mind that on the 26th of

:30:32. > :30:34.November, there was a committee report from the environment which

:30:35. > :30:38.was just looked into. Saying that we should take a fresh look at certain

:30:39. > :30:45.issues, that is what we will do. Before we come to a position in the

:30:46. > :30:51.summer. What my right honourable friend except, that there is a need

:30:52. > :30:56.to reach a decision, on our airport expansion, but that should not be

:30:57. > :31:05.done at the expense of environmental considerations. We have to get it

:31:06. > :31:10.right, as he said, Sir David has accepted since he published his

:31:11. > :31:14.report, the issue of air quality has moved on. Those changes must be

:31:15. > :31:25.examined to make sure that we take edifice of that is like for like. I

:31:26. > :31:28.certainly agree and thank my right honourable friend who took a great

:31:29. > :31:33.deal of interest in this particular issue when he was in the department,

:31:34. > :31:37.he is absolutely right. We have moved significantly further than

:31:38. > :31:49.what has been with the been the case. Not only that, excepting the

:31:50. > :31:53.recommendations which have been put forward, I think that enables us to

:31:54. > :32:01.look at some of the issues which come about as a result. Says the

:32:02. > :32:07.report was published but also from other applications that will affect

:32:08. > :32:10.communities. And what implications we can put in for those affected to

:32:11. > :32:19.make this a more acceptable position in the longer term. Luke over two

:32:20. > :32:22.years ago, the transport select committee supported the expansion of

:32:23. > :32:29.capacity, in the national economic interest. Back Heathrow with

:32:30. > :32:32.environmental safeguards, the Davids commission which was supported six

:32:33. > :32:36.months ago came to very similar conclusions. It appears that the

:32:37. > :32:42.government has done no work or very little work since that time, we are

:32:43. > :32:47.now six months on, according to the CPI, the UK economy is losing out.

:32:48. > :32:50.We are losing out about ?1 billion a year because of the lack of

:32:51. > :33:00.long-haul capacity. Will be a position ever be taken? I think in

:33:01. > :33:04.fairness to the Honorable Lady, she was part of every government affairs

:33:05. > :33:07.for many years to make edifice and as far as where the extra capacity

:33:08. > :33:13.was concerned. The point I would make the Honorable Lady is this, it

:33:14. > :33:18.is important that we have the new capacity up and available by 2030.

:33:19. > :33:24.What I have talked about today is still within that timetable, having

:33:25. > :33:28.that capacity available by 2030. I think, taking a little longer,

:33:29. > :33:31.actually some of the work that we will be embarking on, some of the

:33:32. > :33:39.work on air quality has not been done. We have maybe slow the process

:33:40. > :33:47.down rather than we that of. -- speed it up. The Labour Party may

:33:48. > :33:57.not have done is completely irrelevant. It has no interest to

:33:58. > :34:04.us. What he agree that this position not to make a division is truly...

:34:05. > :34:09.It is absolutely no way to run what he is calling a world-class

:34:10. > :34:14.transport system to support a world-class economy. Can he tell me

:34:15. > :34:19.exactly, wife and the day commission reported absolutely clearly to what

:34:20. > :34:26.their preferred position was without any prevarication, would he tell me

:34:27. > :34:30.what was the point of it? A number of what's, I am sorry that my right

:34:31. > :34:35.honourable friend of mine think that the situation is a fact of no action

:34:36. > :34:41.from a previous government, previously irrelevant. I do not

:34:42. > :34:46.accept that. The simple fact is, I think what the David's commission

:34:47. > :34:51.has done, is identified a report that extra capacity is needed. There

:34:52. > :34:55.are options that can be considered and we are right to consider those

:34:56. > :35:08.three options. I hope very much, that by the summer, we will be able

:35:09. > :35:13.to favour that. The Secretary of State knows I hold him in high

:35:14. > :35:18.regard even when I heckle him. But it took them a few months to get

:35:19. > :35:23.past the global Democrats and red light for the increase, it took the

:35:24. > :35:29.David's commission three years to get beyond the commission and about

:35:30. > :35:32.another six months to avoid having a statement until today, lie doesn't

:35:33. > :35:37.the Secretary of State just admit that this is a political fix to get

:35:38. > :35:41.us past another election and London, and own up giving his own activity

:35:42. > :35:50.in honesty that the has nothing to do with the national interest. I

:35:51. > :35:55.don't mind the occasional hackle from the Honorable member, by now

:35:56. > :36:00.I'm quite used to it. What I would say is that when he says of it is

:36:01. > :36:04.just a fixed path the mayoral election, if it had been a fix to

:36:05. > :36:10.get past the election, we would have said that when David was published

:36:11. > :36:15.that we weren't going to respond for 12 month. My Honorable friend has

:36:16. > :36:21.always been perfectly clear and where he stands on this particular

:36:22. > :36:26.matter. Like the Honorable member, when he was a minister of state

:36:27. > :36:35.attending cabinet in 2009, said that he was firmly in favour of Heathrow.

:36:36. > :36:41.My right honourable friend has held office since the commission received

:36:42. > :36:45.its own destruction. -- instructions. And they will know

:36:46. > :36:48.that the commission urges the government to make an early decision

:36:49. > :36:53.on its recommendations, further delay will be increasingly costly

:36:54. > :36:56.and will be seen, nationally and internationally as a sign that the

:36:57. > :37:00.United Kingdom is unwilling or unable to take the steps needed to

:37:01. > :37:06.maintain its position as a well-connected open trading economy

:37:07. > :37:11.in the 21st century. I know that my Honorable friend is a decent and

:37:12. > :37:17.loyalty player, and is loyally preventing the team position today.

:37:18. > :37:20.Does he understand, that when the conservative team imitates the

:37:21. > :37:24.Labour candidate for Mayor of London, by putting personal and

:37:25. > :37:33.party interests ahead of the national interest, we all lose. I

:37:34. > :37:38.say to my Honorable friend, who is a distinguished chairman of a select

:37:39. > :37:41.committee, I always expect his select committee to listen to with

:37:42. > :37:47.the respect at eight select committee should be listened to. I

:37:48. > :37:49.would refer him to the environmental committees recommendations where it

:37:50. > :37:54.is recommended that the government takes more time to address the on

:37:55. > :37:59.air quality. On a quality, the government needs to re-examine the

:38:00. > :38:04.commissions findings in light of his finalised air quality strategy. This

:38:05. > :38:08.is a report that was published on the 26th of November. I point out

:38:09. > :38:15.that today is the 14th of December. Even with the best in the world, it

:38:16. > :38:23.would be impossible to a, expect and respond to what it has said. I say

:38:24. > :38:28.to my Honorable friend, I am giving another select committee the kind of

:38:29. > :38:40.respect that he would expect for his own select committee. The government

:38:41. > :38:49.has made a mess of this. It does not come well with other decision. The

:38:50. > :38:58.government is completely... What reassurances can they give that they

:38:59. > :39:03.will be able to take those long-term decisions for competitiveness of our

:39:04. > :39:08.nation and will not be defrauded by short-term considerations? The

:39:09. > :39:16.national infrastructure committee will be subject to the decisions

:39:17. > :39:20.that this house takes. If that was even the case, and the way that the

:39:21. > :39:28.national infrastructure committee set up by the labor opposition if he

:39:29. > :39:31.succeeded in the general election. I think the truth is that the

:39:32. > :39:38.Honorable member is right and that these are big issue. Setting up the

:39:39. > :39:43.issue is vague way forward It will still be for this house, and for the

:39:44. > :39:48.government to make sure that it is abiding by other legal requirement

:39:49. > :39:54.such as air quality and other issues that we have to take into account

:39:55. > :39:58.the making the position. May I commend the Secretary of State for

:39:59. > :40:01.his statement, may I also applaud the government for putting

:40:02. > :40:07.environmental impact as an important issue, as part of that work, will

:40:08. > :40:11.the government also investigate, current noise and air pollution

:40:12. > :40:20.problems, with two runways at Heathrow? I understand the

:40:21. > :40:24.conditions faced by my Honorable friend constituents, I did mention

:40:25. > :40:27.noise, I hope I mentioned noise and my statement as one of the

:40:28. > :40:30.considerations that we have got to get right, but also with the

:40:31. > :40:37.advances of technology as well. The planes are becoming quieter. She is

:40:38. > :40:40.right and she represents the constituency very closely affected

:40:41. > :40:44.by this, it has to be done by looking at the mitigation measures

:40:45. > :40:50.which will be put in place by any of the three scheme promoters. The

:40:51. > :41:01.Secretary of State is an honourable puzzlement, he is my constituent. --

:41:02. > :41:05.honourable gentleman. Can I ask him, he talks about the best possible

:41:06. > :41:11.outcome for local residents, would he accept that my constituents may

:41:12. > :41:14.be considered as local residents for Heathrow but it is important that

:41:15. > :41:16.they are taken into consideration because they live under a

:41:17. > :41:25.early-morning noise pollution which is shopping. And asked runway will

:41:26. > :41:36.make that much worse. -- an extra runway. We are made put an end to my

:41:37. > :41:41.flight back to referred to. B are things that have to be taken into an

:41:42. > :41:54.account. I don't exercise my vote there. Either the government has

:41:55. > :41:59.decided to go ahead with Heathrow expansion but delaying the

:42:00. > :42:12.announcement to avoid embarrassing it... Or it needs more time. Is it

:42:13. > :42:19.worth to told today that is a cowardly and pathetic way to make

:42:20. > :42:23.this an issue? Here is some who has taken a view on the position before

:42:24. > :42:27.the government has made the decision. That is typical what he

:42:28. > :42:31.does. I have an opal with the house as to their reason for the extra

:42:32. > :42:34.work that needs to be done. There are people who have been incredibly

:42:35. > :42:36.consistent on this matter, there are people on the other side of the

:42:37. > :42:44.house that have been less consistent. As I went to the whole

:42:45. > :42:51.programme, of where we actually got to, as far as the times tables are

:42:52. > :43:01.concerned, I think it has been wasting time. Does my Honorable

:43:02. > :43:06.friend understand the dismay and the frustration in the Southwest as a

:43:07. > :43:10.result of this latest delay. Our infrastructure comes to the west of

:43:11. > :43:15.London, he himself has been responsible for a massive rail

:43:16. > :43:21.investment. Since his letters to label impact investment in our

:43:22. > :43:24.region, what confidence can we have that the decision will be arrived at

:43:25. > :43:30.next summer because this is not a London issue than the national

:43:31. > :43:35.issues. I agree that this is a national issue, I am grateful to

:43:36. > :43:38.him, for pointing out the amount of infrastructure investment that this

:43:39. > :43:44.government can point out. The fact that we are increasing investment in

:43:45. > :43:48.infrastructure by 50% in this Parliament, so that I am proud of.

:43:49. > :43:52.When my Honorable friend comes to say that this delay will not allow

:43:53. > :43:56.us to meet what the commission report says, I disagree with him.

:43:57. > :44:00.Even the will with what I'm saying, which is a decision by the summer of

:44:01. > :44:07.next year, we will be in a position to need the time table of extra

:44:08. > :44:19.capacity by 2030, which is when they said it is physically needed by. --

:44:20. > :44:28.desperately. It puts the political career of the Taliban member for

:44:29. > :44:33.Richmond Park -- Honorable member. He cannot even be in this place, he

:44:34. > :44:46.was not in his place at the beginning. Can I say to the

:44:47. > :44:52.Secretary of State, I do not believe, perhaps he can tell, that

:44:53. > :44:55.there are any new or later and environmental considerations, that

:44:56. > :45:01.weren't known, or have not been known to the government over the

:45:02. > :45:06.last ten years or so? Well, I am very much regretting the position

:45:07. > :45:10.which the Honorable member takes, he served on the transport select

:45:11. > :45:14.committee for a long time. My Honorable friend for Richmond

:45:15. > :45:17.position on the expansion of Heathrow has always been perfectly

:45:18. > :45:25.clear. I don't think anybody can be in any doubt. His presence and the

:45:26. > :45:32.chamber is more that can be said for the right Honorable member for two

:45:33. > :45:37.things. Which I pointed out and said that in 2009 in the evening standard

:45:38. > :45:42.that he was in favour of Heathrow expansion, he was a transport

:45:43. > :45:46.minister attending cabinet. My Honorable friend has always been

:45:47. > :45:55.very specific on where he stands on this particular issue. I think his

:45:56. > :46:03.question was unworthy. My right on over friend is right to nail down

:46:04. > :46:11.environmental issues for. With that said, last week, the chief executive

:46:12. > :46:18.of Heathrow Airport indicated that Heathrow is full for flight

:46:19. > :46:23.purposes. We are now losing business to Dubai, and Frankfurt. We have to

:46:24. > :46:27.take some action now. It will be 15 years before there will be any

:46:28. > :46:31.wheels on new comment anywhere in the southeast. Will my right

:46:32. > :46:36.honourable friend do his utmost to get the other airport open again to

:46:37. > :46:44.relieve the pressure on Heathrow and paper to forward. -- Britain. My

:46:45. > :46:47.Honorable friend has been leading his campaign and never misses an

:46:48. > :47:01.opportunity to mention the Manchester Airport. The point he

:47:02. > :47:06.makes, however about what they said on the today programme last Friday,

:47:07. > :47:10.he was talking about the capacity at the moment flying from Heathrow

:47:11. > :47:15.Airport and the people using the planes which are currently flying

:47:16. > :47:20.out, for the movement of freight. What he is talking about is stepping

:47:21. > :47:32.up a completely new operation. I wish him well in his campaign. I

:47:33. > :47:38.believe that the delay is not from political experience these. The

:47:39. > :47:44.Secretary of State from transport has recognised that I have known, is

:47:45. > :47:54.the expansion of Heathrow is too difficult. Mattern Dep to Speaker, I

:47:55. > :48:01.would the Secretary of State to address the business case for which

:48:02. > :48:06.the Airport commission has had some differences among each other. I

:48:07. > :48:13.would like him to address the ground security risk and crash risk. And

:48:14. > :48:18.that they are properly assessed. They are not in the Airport

:48:19. > :48:23.commission report. I would ask that he forced London, Heathrow Airport

:48:24. > :48:30.to declare where the fly-past will be. And also the differences between

:48:31. > :48:35.the airport commission is recommending and what the Heathrow

:48:36. > :48:39.Airport is prepared to accept. I think I may need an adjournment

:48:40. > :48:43.debate to answer those questions. Those are points which the Airport

:48:44. > :48:48.commission has looked at in detail. Love the questions she has asked I

:48:49. > :48:55.have said. Extra work is being done on that. That is the right thing to

:48:56. > :49:00.do. As one who publicly supported an increase of the movement in my

:49:01. > :49:06.constituency, may have my right honourable friend, to confirm to the

:49:07. > :49:18.house and that the government is not ruling out additional capacity, at

:49:19. > :49:23.the Gatwick and Heathrow. Could he tell us if he thinks that the

:49:24. > :49:31.Heathrow hub proposal would be far less destructive and stands a better

:49:32. > :49:35.chance than it previously did? I think, I have said, and will say to

:49:36. > :49:41.my Honorable friend that all three options are options which are under

:49:42. > :49:45.consideration, that is a third runway at Heathrow, or a second

:49:46. > :49:50.runway at Gatwick. That is a position and it remains a position.

:49:51. > :49:53.My Honorable friend who is a keen aviator himself will know that some

:49:54. > :50:02.of the difficulties, which are a phase and have to be addressed. That

:50:03. > :50:05.is the right thing to do. I admire the Secretary of State explaining

:50:06. > :50:12.that the Prime Minister has decided to be indecisive, can he explain

:50:13. > :50:17.why, if he is so keen to give further consideration to the

:50:18. > :50:22.environmental considerations of air pollution, his government has been

:50:23. > :50:31.so heavily in the European commission, lobbying. They have

:50:32. > :50:35.whole is that we have been indecisive, he was a member of a

:50:36. > :50:38.government who can make the official whatsoever on this particular

:50:39. > :50:43.matter, the whole question of where we stand on various issues within

:50:44. > :50:48.the European commission and the European Parliament, on matters of a

:50:49. > :50:57.whole issues and not necessarily one individual or small items. My right

:50:58. > :51:02.honourable friend that justifies his delay by saying quite rightly that

:51:03. > :51:07.he wants to get this position right. It just occurs to me that if we had

:51:08. > :51:17.done so with a test to, it could have been cheaper and less damaging.

:51:18. > :51:24.That does not need a reply. I think I should give Rogers for record. --

:51:25. > :51:29.I think I should give one just for the record. The route has gone

:51:30. > :51:41.through considerable improvement for HS two.

:51:42. > :51:48.Something straight from the Minister. What do we want, Airport

:51:49. > :51:54.expansion, when do at the appropriate juncture, and the good

:51:55. > :51:59.time, after reports and a cost of millions of pounds of the taxpayers

:52:00. > :52:04.off for a by election in Richmond Park. Is used to be indecisive but

:52:05. > :52:14.now he is not so sure. Will the government get on with it. Met him

:52:15. > :52:19.Speaker, I am still waiting to hear, it may be just a simple easy answer

:52:20. > :52:24.what the SMP's position is on this matter. Whiskey and do they support?

:52:25. > :52:28.They are silent on its. They want everybody else to give their answer

:52:29. > :52:31.of once a decision is made of a wide packet and say that they would go a

:52:32. > :52:36.different product because that seems to be the only point of the SMP in

:52:37. > :52:39.this chamber. Wait for this is to be made and then attack a. No wonder

:52:40. > :52:47.there is such a difficult position today. At the affects of a hub

:52:48. > :52:55.airport in the Vatican and the strengths to other parts. Those who

:52:56. > :53:01.wish to travel transatlantic and get seeds cannot because the first fight

:53:02. > :53:05.is around midday. The capacity is vital to the economy. I want to

:53:06. > :53:14.place on the record, that I believe that the options before us are the

:53:15. > :53:23.wrong option. Take this opportunity to look again the. Before I call the

:53:24. > :53:26.Secretary of State, we are asking questions not making statements,

:53:27. > :53:33.those questions should be a lot shorter. The Secretary of State. I

:53:34. > :53:47.hear what my Honorable friend says, but the cause for most people, I

:53:48. > :53:52.think it may take longer. Ivo Madam Deputy Speaker, given the high risk

:53:53. > :53:59.that the Secretary of State has announced today, it does not bring

:54:00. > :54:09.the Heathrow claim any closer. Why does the Secretary of State not

:54:10. > :54:15.revert to the Gatwick option, it will be ready Ray before 2030. And

:54:16. > :54:22.will allow Birmingham to complement Gatwick. Well, I did say in my

:54:23. > :54:25.statement of the importance of other airport in the United Kingdom. I

:54:26. > :54:33.haven't seen them grow and the more services being offered from both

:54:34. > :54:46.services. -- have seen. Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, and others I

:54:47. > :54:54.think the point is well made. Services from other airports are

:54:55. > :54:57.also very important indeed. The Secretary of State said that the

:54:58. > :55:00.government accept the case for expansion but that is why they set

:55:01. > :55:03.up the commission and the first phase, so it did not need three

:55:04. > :55:09.years to tell the government that. He goes on to say that the

:55:10. > :55:13.government accept the short list of option. He present the cases as

:55:14. > :55:18.though there are three equally short list of options by the Airport

:55:19. > :55:22.commission, is it not the case that the Airport commission made an

:55:23. > :55:29.unequivocal recommendation. Said the government not be open about that?

:55:30. > :55:32.Is he aware that last week the chief executive was expressing concerns

:55:33. > :55:37.about the cost of Heathrow said, there is no case for expanding

:55:38. > :55:41.Gatwick, very few airline support the proposal and no one would move

:55:42. > :55:54.so why Heathrow remains open. I think my Honorable friend could have

:55:55. > :55:57.some other quotes from Mr Wass. If we are going to the games of just

:55:58. > :56:00.quoting from a Willie Walsh I think we will find that there are many

:56:01. > :56:06.quotes that we can have on this particular subject. What I think is

:56:07. > :56:09.correct, is for the government to look in light of the environmental

:56:10. > :56:14.work that we are going to be doing in light of the mitigation, all

:56:15. > :56:16.three options, and then come to the house once we have divided on which

:56:17. > :56:27.of the By the way he has responded to

:56:28. > :56:30.questions here. Making it an issue of party ping-pong and hold us

:56:31. > :56:38.responsible for what the light. Let's be absolutely clear. I welcome

:56:39. > :56:41.his remarks about air quality which is very important for Heathrow. But

:56:42. > :56:47.he has heard me speak about the fact that there are more European

:56:48. > :56:51.headquarters for multinational companies that in Scotland, Wales,

:56:52. > :56:56.Northern Ireland put together. What research has he done on how view of

:56:57. > :57:02.such companies will remain in the UK in the UK as a result of the delays

:57:03. > :57:08.which are going on about this decision? I'm sorry that she was so

:57:09. > :57:12.disappointed with the way I respond to. I respond and partly to the

:57:13. > :57:16.labor front bench attacked the indecision is that the government

:57:17. > :57:22.was making. I realised the honourable lady has presented a

:57:23. > :57:26.petition to support the expression of Heathrow Airport. But this is a

:57:27. > :57:31.thing something which does the black colleagues and parties. Advocate a

:57:32. > :57:39.front for the government to measure the proper environment work is done

:57:40. > :57:43.before any move forward is taken. I have to observe that the government

:57:44. > :57:49.has a seven to have rather of the in regards to this issue. But at least

:57:50. > :57:52.they have might friend's to dig them out of such a whole. Can my friend

:57:53. > :57:59.assured me that this decision will be taking and that decision will

:58:00. > :58:08.favour the Davis commission, which had a clear recommendation to build

:58:09. > :58:12.a runway at Heathrow? The Shadow Chancellor said to say stop digging.

:58:13. > :58:27.He should learn lessons from his own bench. Can I say to my friend as far

:58:28. > :58:31.as the point that he makes, the important part of the Davis

:58:32. > :58:36.commission was too after capacity in place by 2030. I believe given what

:58:37. > :58:48.I have said the date we are on schedule to be able to deliver. To

:58:49. > :58:54.indicate my frustration at somebody who supports the expansion of

:58:55. > :58:57.Heathrow and the progress has been cut up an internal conservative

:58:58. > :59:00.holding pattern, but the Secretary of State has now three occasions

:59:01. > :59:05.this evening reiterated the commitment to the 2030 time scale.

:59:06. > :59:09.Cannot ask him to assure us in this house that is six months' time, that

:59:10. > :59:17.decision will be taking for the diamond Road? I hope to come back

:59:18. > :59:20.the House in the summer. I am not going to say exactly where that

:59:21. > :59:25.leads us as far as today's date is concerned, but I think that the

:59:26. > :59:30.Honorable member says, and I fully accept the point, the whole point

:59:31. > :59:37.about services to Northern Ireland is incredibly important. Northern

:59:38. > :59:40.Ireland is already well-connected to London, there are around the 17th

:59:41. > :59:46.out of place between Belfast and London in 2014, and of these around

:59:47. > :59:50.6000 were to Heathrow. I do not underestimate the importance to

:59:51. > :59:53.another island and to Scotland as far as connectivity and connections

:59:54. > :00:02.and to are concerned. -- Northern Ireland. That the decision on the

:00:03. > :00:04.due room rate is met on the mission of environmental data that has

:00:05. > :00:10.nothing to be robust, that will simply lead to delays and legal

:00:11. > :00:15.challenges for longer than would happen if decision proceeded

:00:16. > :00:18.straightaway. London Gatwick have a pretty brief me on the concerns

:00:19. > :00:24.about the quality of the Davis commission data. Love my friend

:00:25. > :00:28.ensure that the neck two months will ensure that people look at all the

:00:29. > :00:30.data that habit as robust as possible so that for the decision is

:00:31. > :00:37.made, it can be enacted straightaway? He is absolutely

:00:38. > :00:42.right. If there are any lessons learned from the preparations of

:00:43. > :00:48.HS2, is to make sure that all process go through diligently and

:00:49. > :00:52.properly. There are a number of efforts to get judicial reviews as

:00:53. > :01:01.far as HS2 was concerned. And nearly all of them fell. The Secretariat

:01:02. > :01:05.they have come to the house today to hoodwink us and thinking that he is

:01:06. > :01:09.the most incompetent and indecisive Minister Secretary of State that has

:01:10. > :01:12.ever been. But no one is told by his attempt to take airheads on behalf

:01:13. > :01:17.of the Honorable member for Richmond Park. This is a fixed for next

:01:18. > :01:31.years's mayoral election and nothing else. And nothing in the national

:01:32. > :01:36.interest. I'll go do it again. The Shadow Chancellor has just said that

:01:37. > :01:39.with a compliment. I think I would say to the Honorable member, and he

:01:40. > :01:44.has been here for all the exchanges, is that it's not my friend for

:01:45. > :01:48.Richmond less changed his position on but that he Heathrow should be

:01:49. > :01:54.are not. And that's a good member from from to think, who was one he

:01:55. > :01:57.was a chessboard minister, support that Heathrow is that it he was

:01:58. > :02:05.firmly in favour of Heathrow 's expression. As far as the Merrill

:02:06. > :02:09.elections, if we have wanted to put off until after the barrel election,

:02:10. > :02:15.we have simply has said that we were not going to have a decision on this

:02:16. > :02:20.for 12 months. The very fact that we are making progress is important,

:02:21. > :02:27.but by 2030 and that is what we should do. No matter how skillfully

:02:28. > :02:34.the Secretariat they tried to pretend otherwise, we all know that

:02:35. > :02:40.announcements is all about trying to get the Conservative Party and the

:02:41. > :02:46.Member for Richmond Park over next May in that particular line. Is no

:02:47. > :02:49.way for government to make decisions and make announcements. The

:02:50. > :02:56.government talked about the Northern powerhouse as it, which am sure

:02:57. > :02:59.that. He must know that expecting Heathrow is essential for the

:03:00. > :03:04.northern powerhouse, so will he please act in the national interest,

:03:05. > :03:11.rather than just making at a announcement to benefit London and

:03:12. > :03:17.are excellent mayoral candidates? I am very glad that my friend is shown

:03:18. > :03:20.support to the northern powerhouse. Into something that is important to

:03:21. > :03:23.me as very important to the government as well. We are back and

:03:24. > :03:29.that with huge amounts of investment as far as lead electrification and

:03:30. > :03:33.new trade services, two new franchises which were announced last

:03:34. > :03:35.week will allow a very beneficial effect as far as transport

:03:36. > :03:41.connectivity between our major cities in the north. That is vitally

:03:42. > :03:47.important, as is getting the whole question right about future aviation

:03:48. > :03:54.capacity. A pathetic way to make decisions about infrastructure in

:03:55. > :04:00.our country. Doesn't be Secretary of State just feel shamefaced about

:04:01. > :04:02.this mother subjugating painful example of political

:04:03. > :04:07.procrastination, despite the obvious national interest to get on with it

:04:08. > :04:15.at Heathrow. On a scale of one to ten, how does how embarrassed it the

:04:16. > :04:21.Secretary of State? Political procrastination, Mr Speaker. 2001,

:04:22. > :04:27.Labour ministers are reported to be seriously considering a third

:04:28. > :04:33.runway. 2003, the Transport Secretary publishes a wide paper.

:04:34. > :04:37.2007, the government publishes a public consultation document for

:04:38. > :04:40.expecting Heathrow Airport. 2009, the government approves a third

:04:41. > :04:45.runway at taking the number of flights have culled from the airport

:04:46. > :04:51.from 480,000 to more than 700,000. I will take no lectures on deck and

:04:52. > :04:53.big issues, but that the docking of the big issues was done when he was

:04:54. > :05:01.a member of the last labor government. -- docking. I'm pleased

:05:02. > :05:06.to Secretary of State recognises the importance of original airports,

:05:07. > :05:12.will walk more and more capacity is developed in the Southeast. Can't my

:05:13. > :05:20.friend say what he is doing to encourage more airlines to fly on

:05:21. > :05:26.more routes from Manchester Airport? I think he is right. When we talked

:05:27. > :05:29.about Manchester, I also talked about Birmingham, Newcastle,

:05:30. > :05:32.Edinburgh and Glasgow. I think it is essential to try and get more

:05:33. > :05:37.connectivity for airports so that people do not necessarily have to

:05:38. > :05:40.travelled to London -- Heathrow or Gatwick to get the flash that the

:05:41. > :05:49.one. I think it is important and the. -- flights. I like the

:05:50. > :05:53.Secretariat, so I feel for him. -- Secretary. The more he tries to act

:05:54. > :06:00.as a result, the more effectively becomes. To help him, and I suggest

:06:01. > :06:08.that he take the opportunity to abandon environment to plans, budget

:06:09. > :06:11.instead to improve server and accessed to other airports to get

:06:12. > :06:16.better use of spare capacity there. And secondly that he delivers on HS2

:06:17. > :06:27.so that we can see far more people travelling by rail instead of taking

:06:28. > :06:32.short flights. Pundits remind him that the Davis commission will set

:06:33. > :06:35.up by the Coalition Government to make the case and examine the case

:06:36. > :06:41.fully to what we should do for the future. I was proud of server in the

:06:42. > :06:44.Coalition Government, I was proud of a lot of things that it achieved.

:06:45. > :06:47.The Davis commission setting that was just one of them and I have

:06:48. > :06:49.wanted us to back away from the difficult questions which oppose us

:06:50. > :06:54.to back away from the difficult questions which oppose this was.

:06:55. > :07:00.That she opposes to us. Can he confirm to me that the independent

:07:01. > :07:06.and impartial airports commission clearly stated that Heathrow was the

:07:07. > :07:11.best option and that if the government and the future decides

:07:12. > :07:16.against that it wishes to expand and guess what, I get guarantees that

:07:17. > :07:21.they should never that will be required in housing, hide ways, and

:07:22. > :07:27.a broad network, and health care and all other public services will be

:07:28. > :07:31.forthcoming? There is already significant commitments as far as

:07:32. > :07:37.Gatwick and improving the infrastructure to Gatwick that

:07:38. > :07:40.already taking place. For Douglas Camp will be coming on board over

:07:41. > :07:45.the next few gears. So it is important that we get the access to

:07:46. > :07:51.our airports correct, that is something which we are dealing with

:07:52. > :07:55.over a period of time. If the decision should go towards deadwood,

:07:56. > :07:58.would there be other consequences? That is the case in almost all the

:07:59. > :08:06.options that we choose. Of course we want to look at those issues which

:08:07. > :08:11.are the ones we want take forward. And I said to the government, while

:08:12. > :08:15.our development some capacity for hot air balloons in the process of

:08:16. > :08:22.trying to get, or mining, rather than just talking about this issue,

:08:23. > :08:26.Birmingham has turned up capacity and a bread to find ways to do with

:08:27. > :08:35.current issues about rather than waiting for it. I concur in which

:08:36. > :08:41.Birmingham has gone about. At the expense of both of the runway and

:08:42. > :08:44.the airport. A broad thing HS2 will have a very important impact for

:08:45. > :08:54.Birmingham airports as well. I agree with him. The secretary as they give

:08:55. > :08:59.us an assurance that there will be a decision and the summer, because my

:09:00. > :09:06.constituents asked whether this thing will actually be decided upon

:09:07. > :09:09.or not. About said to the house, a bigot is very important that we

:09:10. > :09:15.stick to the timetable of Sir Howard's report. That is as ours

:09:16. > :09:25.have a capacity available by 2030. Hubble will to follow the timetable.

:09:26. > :09:29.-- I will want to. And the Secretary of State clearly state what

:09:30. > :09:33.additional works have been undertaken to refine every SSD air

:09:34. > :09:41.quality, and doors? Who is going to do that and who is going to assess

:09:42. > :09:50.it? Can I ask of a Scotsman, can his mind... And I would point out that

:09:51. > :10:02.not once did he ever states what summer, what gear you're going to

:10:03. > :10:05.started? To try and reassure the gentlemen, there is yet another

:10:06. > :10:15.Scottish Nationalists who have got up not said what he supports. What I

:10:16. > :10:18.have been clear about, is that we will stick to the timetable which

:10:19. > :10:29.gives the extra capacity that is needed by 2030. I normally try to be

:10:30. > :10:34.very supportive of my friend, but I have struggled somewhat on this

:10:35. > :10:39.occasion. Can he give an absolute assurance that if further work on

:10:40. > :10:44.air quality and noise were to go against Heathrow, that the default

:10:45. > :10:53.position will be to accept Gatwick and not waste more years by setting

:10:54. > :10:58.of yet another commission? If my Honorable friend looks at my

:10:59. > :11:01.statement, I made quite clear that the government assisted three

:11:02. > :11:07.options that have been performed by the commission, are the right

:11:08. > :11:12.options as far for body -- capacity is concerned. The answer to this

:11:13. > :11:21.question is yes I do except that. I do not fully answer all the other

:11:22. > :11:28.questions from the S member. -- S Garbean there will be done by

:11:29. > :11:35.the Department for Transport. -- they were. But that we all except

:11:36. > :11:38.that the Secretary of State is right to say that this is a national

:11:39. > :11:41.infrastructure project that affects runway capacities throughout the

:11:42. > :11:46.country and aviation capacity throughout the country. And we have

:11:47. > :11:53.the opportunity, will he commit to meeting with those regional

:11:54. > :11:56.airports? He has not included East Midlands and his response so if he

:11:57. > :12:02.can squeeze that in as well, but wouldn't commit to meet those

:12:03. > :12:07.represents, should that we plot the... Will forget the extra

:12:08. > :12:12.capacity in the shop is? I did I mention every airport in the

:12:13. > :12:22.country, but I did try to -- did not. I did talk about Manchester,

:12:23. > :12:26.Newcastle, Edinburgh, Birmingham. Glasgow to. I did not mention East

:12:27. > :12:31.Midlands, which is just down the road from where I am, but when I

:12:32. > :12:39.like to see what services from them? The answer is yes. -- what I like. I

:12:40. > :12:48.welcomed the decision to delay the statement. Are collies are in

:12:49. > :12:52.negotiations with the child was coming into Heathrow over the

:12:53. > :12:55.valley. What he agreed with me that the resolution of these issues is

:12:56. > :13:03.crucial to our future support that Heathrow? Sunday my Honorable friend

:13:04. > :13:08.that's a good point about the fact that aviation, capacity does not

:13:09. > :13:12.necessarily a threat the areas that are not most of all. To have a wider

:13:13. > :13:20.impact around the rest of economy and country. In light of the Paris

:13:21. > :13:23.conference to we just had a statement on, what recent

:13:24. > :13:27.discussions has he had with the Secretary of State for climate

:13:28. > :13:31.change and the committee on climate change about how important that the

:13:32. > :13:40.will affect the UK's ability to meet its reduction targets? As one of the

:13:41. > :13:47.people who served on the commission,... With did try to

:13:48. > :13:55.methods into account that Davis commission. Obviously, a system that

:13:56. > :14:00.has been for the development. The BW scandal. We should does our response

:14:01. > :14:07.on new information that will become available. -- the judge. That is

:14:08. > :14:13.something that I want to see addressed. I still believe we can't

:14:14. > :14:20.deliver on the timetable set out in the commission's report of 2030.

:14:21. > :14:27.Does he agree with me that this decision original airports, which I

:14:28. > :14:34.recently visited. -- original airports. We may even see a second

:14:35. > :14:42.runway and Brengle in the future, as well as a just the two of? -- the

:14:43. > :14:49.Birmingham. She never misses an opportunity to. Don't think I'll be

:14:50. > :14:55.promoting them at the whole thing I will disagree with her arm, is a

:14:56. > :14:57.downward work without the airports, Birmingham, Newcastle, East

:14:58. > :15:05.Midlands, Glasgow at regional airports. -- as. Cannot think of the

:15:06. > :15:10.government the government will not outsource these issues to other

:15:11. > :15:13.committees, and will not be rushed into making a decision about a

:15:14. > :15:18.planned weight that will not be operational until 2030? Can he

:15:19. > :15:22.confirm that is a third runway is to consider, it will only be considered

:15:23. > :15:26.with the three caveats that faith is placed on it in terms of a fourth

:15:27. > :15:34.runway, night flights, and meeting EQ quality limits? At whatever

:15:35. > :15:40.decision is taken, as I say there are still three options that are

:15:41. > :15:44.being discussed. We must get the best mitigation bills out for the

:15:45. > :15:50.people affected by those by possible. But the point that he said

:15:51. > :15:55.would be very important consideration for any decision which

:15:56. > :16:02.is taken. If the decision should be Heathrow, there are three options we

:16:03. > :16:07.are looking at. Consistently that the government has to position.

:16:08. > :16:16.Either we have accepted the Davis commission, subject to certain out

:16:17. > :16:19.these environmental issues. Core, we have now we have 3-D glasses, have

:16:20. > :16:28.looking at all three from scratch. Which of the two are going to go

:16:29. > :16:37.quiz yellow. We have accepted Davis as far as the fact that the reaction

:16:38. > :16:41.that we are looking for. Another Davis commission supported one in

:16:42. > :16:47.particular, but the government has had to look at all three of the

:16:48. > :16:50.options available. And hit the pins, given that we have not built a full

:16:51. > :16:57.runway in the southeast of England since 1946, -- and defenses copy of

:16:58. > :17:02.one of the Secretary of State does make the decision and summer of

:17:03. > :17:04.2016, when he comes to make the decision was made in the interest of

:17:05. > :17:09.the whole country, including the night and half would to residents of

:17:10. > :17:21.the Midlands, who he and I represent and not just the denizens of West

:17:22. > :17:25.London? I think if one looks at the record of this government, we have

:17:26. > :17:30.always acted in the national answer. We have done as far after capacity

:17:31. > :17:35.on the rower roads, and going as far but is it for concerned. But they

:17:36. > :17:39.are always controversial and it is right in this day and age that would

:17:40. > :17:46.take every measure that we can to mitigate the environment and impacts

:17:47. > :17:50.of any decisions that we make. Top prospects in the Southwest and in

:17:51. > :17:55.the rest of the country outside of the southeast would be in my view

:17:56. > :18:01.very best enhanced by an expansion at Heathrow. Plan is to be legally

:18:02. > :18:04.secure. Does my friend agreed that sometimes, it could be best to

:18:05. > :18:12.actually have a very thorough look at this and add a stitch in time in

:18:13. > :18:15.this case might save... Up in one of the things that I have learned

:18:16. > :18:18.taking through some of the bigger infrastructure projects, which I've

:18:19. > :18:24.been responsible for, it is absolutely bright incorrect to make

:18:25. > :18:30.sure all possible work and challenges that you are facing on

:18:31. > :18:34.whatever decision you take it that we can prove that we have done the

:18:35. > :18:42.right amount of work and perforation for decisions that we are going to

:18:43. > :18:47.put before the House in due course. What drives air quality is car

:18:48. > :18:52.emissions. -- the drives Heathrow has far more rapid transport,

:18:53. > :18:56.including for rail links. Gatwick has one, was the Secretary of State

:18:57. > :19:01.is aware is not the best in the country. Will he please give us an

:19:02. > :19:07.assurance that any analysis of air quality, able understand will be

:19:08. > :19:11.taken that will result in the bass interest of passengers if Gatwick

:19:12. > :19:19.were to get the option. But also for the employees required that employed

:19:20. > :19:22.a Gatwick, none of them locally. Of a bill off was that the be put

:19:23. > :19:31.forward and addressed in the work that we're going to do this over the

:19:32. > :19:36.coming months. A lot of this work has been covered by a Davis, but

:19:37. > :19:42.there is to a lot more to be done. I think my friend is right to show his

:19:43. > :19:46.concern. And to also point out that there is actually no easy or

:19:47. > :19:50.straightforward answer as far as aviation capacity is concerned, but

:19:51. > :19:55.also accepting that for this country aviation is a very important

:19:56. > :20:03.industry, which employs many, thousands of people right across the

:20:04. > :20:14.supply chain. On that basis, I hope my friend will accept my insurance

:20:15. > :20:24.is. -- assurances. I think you are in the chair when the member accused

:20:25. > :20:28.my Honorable friend, the Member for Richmond Park, who has sat quietly

:20:29. > :20:33.and respectfully throughout this exchange, not being in his place.

:20:34. > :20:38.Although my friend for Bridgeman is completely wrong on that everything

:20:39. > :20:45.could do with runways, it is extremely unfair for his

:20:46. > :20:47.constituents and his future supporters in the mayoral elections

:20:48. > :20:54.that they should think he was not here for the whole of the time. I

:20:55. > :21:01.thank the gentleman for that point of order. Also hot that it was very

:21:02. > :21:04.clear from the response from the government benches that he was here

:21:05. > :21:08.have been here throughout. I think even at the time that that point was

:21:09. > :21:16.made, and he has made it once again and is now firmly on the record.

:21:17. > :21:19.Further to the point of order. I'll would like to point out that at the

:21:20. > :21:23.point the Secretary of State started his statement, the Honorable member

:21:24. > :21:29.for Richmond Park was not in his place. That is also on the record. I

:21:30. > :21:37.was not the chair when that happened. It was with complete over

:21:38. > :21:42.that I've read in the papers disagreed allegations that a British

:21:43. > :21:47.official was present in January 2002 or am I was tortured. For the

:21:48. > :21:54.officials apprised at the Baghdad air base on the same plan of then

:21:55. > :21:59.Prime Minister. -- surprise. Such serious activation of a government

:22:00. > :22:03.being complicit in torture, not only brings... But causes great concern

:22:04. > :22:06.around the UK Government's record of upholding the Universal declaration

:22:07. > :22:11.of human rights and honouring historic values and the bride to a

:22:12. > :22:14.fair trial. I am looking forward to the government to make and are just

:22:15. > :22:20.a bit of this and call the Prime Minister to honour his word from

:22:21. > :22:26.2010 when he said the public confidence, party and parliament is

:22:27. > :22:29.right judge led inquiry. He added that is what we need to need to get

:22:30. > :22:34.to the bottom of the case, the fact that it is led by a judge will help

:22:35. > :22:37.assure that we get it done properly. I thank her for her point of order

:22:38. > :22:41.and also for the noticed that she had given the chair for the point of

:22:42. > :22:45.order. Not a method for the chair, but as you can see a Foreign Office

:22:46. > :22:49.minister is off the bench and will have heard what she has said that

:22:50. > :23:01.I'm sure will respond in due course. There are no more points of order,

:23:02. > :23:23.will not regard as of the date. -- orders of the day. Order!

:23:24. > :23:32.Order! . We will begin with clause one, which will be completed to

:23:33. > :23:40.debate class to study the question is back clause one stand part of the

:23:41. > :23:46.bill. For approval by Parliament for two draft legislative measures as

:23:47. > :23:52.required under section eight of the EQ act 2011. Such approval is needed

:23:53. > :23:56.because both measures are made under Article 352 of the Treaty on the

:23:57. > :24:00.function of the European Union. By section eight of the act does

:24:01. > :24:04.provide for exceptions in order to avoid the requirement of an act of

:24:05. > :24:10.Parliament, the measures had to that full fastball without any of the

:24:11. > :24:17.exempt purposes. Clocked at two turtle instead of the bill, is

:24:18. > :24:20.commencement date and short title. Subsection one of clause two

:24:21. > :24:25.provides that the bill to extend to the whole of the UK, subjection to

:24:26. > :24:30.provide that the bill will, to fall task force on that day. Subsection

:24:31. > :24:37.three provide to the build's short title. I beg to move that clause one

:24:38. > :24:49.and class to stand part of the bill. -- clause to. The question is that

:24:50. > :24:54.clause one stand part to the. I think the eyes back haven't. The

:24:55. > :25:06.question is that class to stand part of the bill. The contrary, no. I

:25:07. > :25:12.think the ayes haven't. I do not report the bill to the house without

:25:13. > :25:20.the amendment. -- now. The ayes haven't.

:25:21. > :25:51.The committee has gone through the bill and reports the same with that

:25:52. > :25:59.amendment. The question is that the bill now be read a third time. I beg

:26:00. > :26:08.to move that the bill now be read a third time. I think the brief

:26:09. > :26:11.explanation that... At the beginning of this session covered the points

:26:12. > :26:15.that needed to be made about this very short bill and the purpose and

:26:16. > :26:22.reason as to why they are required. A second reading stage, we covered

:26:23. > :26:28.some points raised in the session, but I think it is fair to say that

:26:29. > :26:34.this bill and debate have covered the two clauses sufficiently. I

:26:35. > :26:37.think it is worth reflecting that the bill before us forms part of the

:26:38. > :26:43.ability of parliament examine and give it the light give advice and

:26:44. > :26:48.clearance of protection and oversight of the European Union act

:26:49. > :26:53.that it affords us. Bills such as this give another layer of

:26:54. > :27:00.protection with the European union legislation... I will give way. I am

:27:01. > :27:07.grateful Madam Deputy Speaker because as my right honourable

:27:08. > :27:12.friend likely says, the only point of concern about this bill is why it

:27:13. > :27:16.is that such trivial matters are being dealt with by way of an act of

:27:17. > :27:22.Parliament. Would my right honourable friend agree with me that

:27:23. > :27:25.while these might be trivial matters, the public might be

:27:26. > :27:30.concerned that they are being dealt with by Parliament, the public

:27:31. > :27:38.should be equally concerned that such major matters such as the

:27:39. > :27:44.turkey re-installment in the European Union will go through the

:27:45. > :27:48.same installment. I thank my honourable friend for his remarks. I

:27:49. > :27:51.think it is right to say that when it comes to debating and discussing

:27:52. > :27:55.matters of this nature, I would not quite use the same terms that my

:27:56. > :28:03.honourable friend has used, trivial, much as this and other assets of the

:28:04. > :28:09.European Union. As he has pointed out, the exception of Turkey which

:28:10. > :28:12.will have debate and at the same time there will be engagement with

:28:13. > :28:16.the European committee and other debates will take place in this

:28:17. > :28:20.house, I am delighted to see the chair of the committee in his place

:28:21. > :28:26.this afternoon as well. I think it is important for me to emphasise two

:28:27. > :28:31.points in particular. I want to go back to the second reading point as

:28:32. > :28:33.well. I was clear when we had a second reading that obviously there

:28:34. > :28:40.were concerns about what this legislation meant, what the cost of

:28:41. > :28:45.the taxpayer will be, I emphasise that there are no burdens and costs.

:28:46. > :28:48.Administrative costs or extra cost to the taxpayer but I think it is

:28:49. > :28:53.important to say that when reading this bill -- bringing this bill to

:28:54. > :29:06.the House, a covers two clauses, these clauses relates to DTS S and

:29:07. > :29:11.the other relates in particular to the Republic of Macedonia as a

:29:12. > :29:14.observer in the work of the EU funding rights agencies and on that

:29:15. > :29:19.basis these are two very straightforward causes and are part

:29:20. > :29:28.of a very straightforward bill. I commend this bill to the House. I

:29:29. > :29:35.must admit, I find myself called to the dispatch box today. We are here

:29:36. > :29:40.to debate to matters, the first is whether a new position should be

:29:41. > :29:46.established within the organisation in the name of the former Yugoslavia

:29:47. > :29:50.and Association Council, establishing this new position I

:29:51. > :29:55.understand in some way facilitates the admission of Macedonia to the

:29:56. > :30:02.European Union agency for fundamental rights as an observer.

:30:03. > :30:08.The second point of this bill... I think that is why I am here. There

:30:09. > :30:13.appears to be a need for me to update the formal basis, recognising

:30:14. > :30:23.the fact that its function now relates to "The gender from -- the

:30:24. > :30:28.agenda for growth". Can the Minister held me and is this really so. If so

:30:29. > :30:35.the substance of this bill is almost the definition of bureaucratic my

:30:36. > :30:39.new shop. While it is my understanding that both of these

:30:40. > :30:43.relate to the draft of the European Council which need to be approved by

:30:44. > :30:47.each member of the state as well as Parliament, I do find the use of

:30:48. > :30:50.this quite extraordinary. Particularly at a time when the

:30:51. > :30:57.government is hacking away at the social safety net via second

:30:58. > :31:00.legislation it is a uphill struggle to get ministers to agree to even a

:31:01. > :31:04.short debate in the core door. It does not appear that the government

:31:05. > :31:11.in my view has this right. Anyway, here we are. I will use the time we

:31:12. > :31:16.have to be free recap these proposals. Which I do not expect to

:31:17. > :31:20.be the subject of raging controversy in this debate. The first part of

:31:21. > :31:24.the bill as we have heard relates to the omission of Macedonia as an

:31:25. > :31:28.observer at the European Union agency for fundamental rights. This

:31:29. > :31:31.follows a report from the European commission which was published

:31:32. > :31:37.earlier this year and set out a number of recommendations to revive

:31:38. > :31:42.Macedonia's stalled candidacy for access to the EU. My honourable

:31:43. > :31:51.friend will be aware that the Greeks... Maybe she might use the

:31:52. > :31:58.full name to not upset our Greek colleagues? The honourable gentleman

:31:59. > :32:03.is right and I apologise and hope that the council will get it right

:32:04. > :32:07.even if I do not. This process was initiated in 2005 and has been put

:32:08. > :32:10.on hold as a result of widespread concerns more recently over the

:32:11. > :32:18.country's deteriorating record on human rights. The admission of the

:32:19. > :32:24.former Republic of Yugoslavia known as Macedonia to the EU's agenda for

:32:25. > :32:27.fundamental rights as an observer was one of the number of

:32:28. > :32:31.recommendations made in the European commission's recent report. As

:32:32. > :32:38.explained in the debate on second reading, it is hoped that"

:32:39. > :32:44.observers... And assistance on fundamental rights, issues, to help

:32:45. > :32:48.tackle its reform challenges and provide assistance and help to the

:32:49. > :32:54.country on human rights issues." I have to say that at the rate this

:32:55. > :32:56.government is going, with them removing the requirement to respect

:32:57. > :33:01.international law for ministerial code and pressing ahead with their

:33:02. > :33:05.plans to repeal the Human Rights Act, perhaps a theatre of colleagues

:33:06. > :33:14.up to join a Macedonia delegation and learn a few lessons. ... For

:33:15. > :33:24.growth and employment. Bills note described as the... European

:33:25. > :33:28.commission and the Council to enable high-level discussion between the

:33:29. > :33:34.three parties of social aspects of the European agenda for jobs. Beyond

:33:35. > :33:37.these exceptionally vague generalities, further details of the

:33:38. > :33:42.summits roles are surprisingly hard to come by. Nevertheless, any

:33:43. > :33:47.discussion of jobs and growth is hardly objectionable and certainly

:33:48. > :33:51.not objection by me. In fact, should the representatives of the UK take

:33:52. > :33:55.part in any upcoming meetings, it might provide an ideal opportunity

:33:56. > :33:59.for ministers take on board some the valuable lessons our European

:34:00. > :34:03.friends have to offer in terms of jobs and growth. At a time when our

:34:04. > :34:08.jobs market is not the envy of the entire continent, the government

:34:09. > :34:12.should welcome such change. We have a high proportion of graduates doing

:34:13. > :34:16.jobs that they are overqualified for, 59% in any other country in the

:34:17. > :34:20.European Union, apart from Estonia and another country. We have a

:34:21. > :34:26.higher rate of underemployment where a 10th of our entire workforce worse

:34:27. > :34:32.life than they want to, lower than any other European Union country

:34:33. > :34:36.other than a couple of them. This appears to be getting worse. In most

:34:37. > :34:41.recent employment figures from the oh in S show that even a number of

:34:42. > :34:46.people working in the UK has risen, the total number of hours worked by

:34:47. > :34:50.the UK have actually fallen. Perhaps a European counterpart could teach

:34:51. > :34:55.us a thing or two. We do not intend to oppose this bill and I welcome

:34:56. > :34:58.it. As least as far as a ghost. Because it offers us some reminder

:34:59. > :35:03.that of the things that we have to be grateful for, not least the

:35:04. > :35:06.protection of fundamental rights and freedoms, including some of the most

:35:07. > :35:10.basic rights of the workplace which many of us take for granted but

:35:11. > :35:14.would not be there without the European Union. At a time where the

:35:15. > :35:16.government is undermining these rights, particularly in the trade

:35:17. > :35:20.union bill, we should welcome the opportunity that this debate

:35:21. > :35:24.provides to remember the positive role of the EU can play in our

:35:25. > :35:28.lives, particularly when it comes to protecting dignity in the workplace.

:35:29. > :35:37.It is disappointing that the government does not seem to share

:35:38. > :35:39.these values. I am sure members from across the House will be delighted

:35:40. > :35:47.to hear the SNP will be supporting this bill today. They will be more

:35:48. > :35:51.delighted to hear that I am making my comments as brief as possible.

:35:52. > :35:56.The most popular thing I think I has said as a right dock regular member.

:35:57. > :36:00.Stanton has been a great success and it is good to see our friends and

:36:01. > :36:03.colleagues across the European Union working more closely together,

:36:04. > :36:09.particularly pleased to see Macedonia joined the EU agency as an

:36:10. > :36:12.observer. It is particularly helpful to them as we'd deal with the

:36:13. > :36:15.refugee crisis and I hope they will get some benefit from that will stop

:36:16. > :36:20.it is also a reminder of those countries that have the biggest

:36:21. > :36:24.burden they have to deal with in terms of the refugee crisis that

:36:25. > :36:30.they can certainly do more. On the second point, we wholeheartedly

:36:31. > :36:34.support any dialogue between the EU institution employers and worker

:36:35. > :36:43.representatives. And through the apartheid... We need to remain part

:36:44. > :36:47.of the European Union, benefits of remaining a part of the European

:36:48. > :36:53.Union as money members will agree and we moved to support this bill

:36:54. > :36:58.today. It seems this is going to go through without too much

:36:59. > :37:01.controversy, but I think it is worthy of commenting on on the state

:37:02. > :37:07.of employment across the whole of the European Union including Ukraine

:37:08. > :37:14.as we ring attentive to our own problems. I remember Britain before

:37:15. > :37:22.some of you were born. We headed biggest investors in history. The

:37:23. > :37:33.bill seeks approval for members to be made France additional made that.

:37:34. > :37:40.The TSS organisation is meant to discuss increasing the employment

:37:41. > :37:47.rates, investing 3% of GDP and development and reducing... These

:37:48. > :37:49.are worthy things. But they are living in a dream world if they

:37:50. > :37:58.think it is doing anything economically. There is an credible

:37:59. > :38:02.risk of unemployment. Widget that was repeated in Britain, we would

:38:03. > :38:09.have four and a half unemployed not 1.8 as thereby says at the moment.

:38:10. > :38:13.It is in a bad way and indeed some the larger companies are quietly

:38:14. > :38:20.suffering, particularly France. People in France are fighting and

:38:21. > :38:31.are nervous about their futures. But if we think everything is fine and

:38:32. > :38:34.dandy, I think it is just... If people in the European Union believe

:38:35. > :38:41.that to be the case, I think they are living in this dream world. The

:38:42. > :38:45.reality is that the EU is failing, Greece, Italy, France as I

:38:46. > :38:52.mentioned, but also Finland has very serious problems. Problems of

:38:53. > :38:57.printing billions of euros to try and stop their country from seeking.

:38:58. > :39:02.So their are serious economic problems inside the euro zone and

:39:03. > :39:06.the European Union. The only way they are going to get the growth

:39:07. > :39:14.we're talking about is for them to be able to regard their economies on

:39:15. > :39:16.a national basis, the value of their currency in relation to other

:39:17. > :39:24.currencies and their interest rates and indeed there own fiscal policies

:39:25. > :39:30.as well. When they can do that, when they can regroup behind their own

:39:31. > :39:35.barriers, then we should see Europe as a colony growing again and see

:39:36. > :39:41.millions of people who have been out of work from a long time to back

:39:42. > :39:45.into work. It is an innocuous bill, some the points it is covering, jobs

:39:46. > :39:50.and growth, I think we ought to just focus on those occasionally to show

:39:51. > :39:58.how badly that they are. When I was a young person, everyone had a job,

:39:59. > :40:02.we had full employment. We had a Labour shortage, we have living

:40:03. > :40:08.centres like we have not seen before. Or since then it has gone

:40:09. > :40:16.rapidly wrong and as I said more crises are to come, more serious

:40:17. > :40:19.crisis are to come. I think the European Union has been economically

:40:20. > :40:25.growth and stability in jobs I think growth and stability in jobs I think

:40:26. > :40:29.they are living in this dreamworld. The question is that the bill not be

:40:30. > :40:37.read a third time, as many of that opinion say I on the contrary say

:40:38. > :40:41.no. Motion number two on relocation of migrants for international

:40:42. > :40:49.protection opt in decision, Minister to move. Thank you Madam Deputy

:40:50. > :40:54.Speaker. This motion covers a series of EU proposals on the relocation of

:40:55. > :41:00.migrants within the EU. These proposals or an essential response

:41:01. > :41:03.to the ongoing migration conserves... And indeed have been

:41:04. > :41:06.summoned to previous debates in this house. The current migration can't

:41:07. > :41:12.do my crisis has been described as the worst refugee crisis since World

:41:13. > :41:15.War II are thought to. As does the ability of the Member States to

:41:16. > :41:19.provide a comprehensive and sustainable response, one which is

:41:20. > :41:22.both able to support those Member States under most pressure and

:41:23. > :41:28.ensure protections are provided for those in real need of it. This has

:41:29. > :41:32.been a competent fast-moving situation, proposals have been

:41:33. > :41:39.adopted extremely quickly and ministers have met him almost weekly

:41:40. > :41:43.basis. As soon as proposals were adopted they were almost superseded

:41:44. > :41:47.by others. Since the crisis began, the government has been very clear

:41:48. > :41:51.on our views of relocation, it is the wrong response. It is absolutely

:41:52. > :41:54.nothing to adjust the underlying causes of the crisis, it does

:41:55. > :41:59.nothing more than move the problem around Europe. Relocation also...

:42:00. > :42:01.Process applications and Process applications and

:42:02. > :42:07.strengthening borders. It encourages more migrants to travel illegally

:42:08. > :42:11.into the EU. We must ensure the relocation proposal does not reduce

:42:12. > :42:16.the opposition on all Member States to have a functioning border and

:42:17. > :42:19.asylum systems. We have stated that the UK will not alter measures

:42:20. > :42:23.whether temporary or permanent. I apologise to the House that on these

:42:24. > :42:30.relocation measures we have had to override scrutiny. The commission

:42:31. > :42:34.broke the Mike brought forward... The trimester and home secretary

:42:35. > :42:37.were required to make the government views on such measures clear and

:42:38. > :42:43.hastily arranged EU Council meetings. The debate on relocation

:42:44. > :42:46.continue within the EU, only a tiny number of people have been relocated

:42:47. > :42:49.under the agreed temporary measures and many Member States are now

:42:50. > :42:53.stepping back on commitments they have previously made and the concern

:42:54. > :42:59.is growing on the merits of the permanent mechanism. I will give

:43:00. > :43:04.way. I am grateful to my friend for giving way, does my honourable

:43:05. > :43:13.friend agreed with the position of Slovakia who believe this decision

:43:14. > :43:16.should have been taken by unanimously. We are not party to

:43:17. > :43:21.these arrangements in using our opt out but I think my honourable friend

:43:22. > :43:24.of easily does highlight some of the issues that have been risen since

:43:25. > :43:31.the mid-measures were put into place. Indeed, I am aware that to

:43:32. > :43:34.like in Hungary have filed challenges in the Court of Justice

:43:35. > :43:39.against the relocation scheme. I think that there are those kinds can

:43:40. > :43:44.-- those concerns that these proposals are geared bike

:43:45. > :43:52.ill-conceived. Using them as a tool ill-conceived. Using them as a tool

:43:53. > :43:57.to manage the crisis I give way. Could he explain under this scheme

:43:58. > :44:01.that was agreed, if a migrant is allocated to a given country to

:44:02. > :44:04.settle but then this could stomach decides to live in another EU

:44:05. > :44:10.country, what is stopping them from moving? And issue my friend has

:44:11. > :44:15.highlighted is an issue that we remain conscious of, what might be

:44:16. > :44:20.described as secondary movement. There is secondary movement within

:44:21. > :44:24.the Schengen area, but we maintain our own border controls and visa

:44:25. > :44:26.requirements and therefore is within the Schengen area that that may

:44:27. > :44:29.operate but I think there are those practical issues that have been

:44:30. > :44:34.highlighted in terms of the operation of the scheme and indeed

:44:35. > :44:46.to date I think it is only 160 people have been relocated under

:44:47. > :44:52.these measures the sparse. Bar. We continue to make the case that this

:44:53. > :44:56.is not just an EU problem, it is an international issue which needs

:44:57. > :45:03.action from a whole range of parties. I am grateful to you for

:45:04. > :45:07.giving way, is the problem on secondary movement that once they

:45:08. > :45:10.become citizens of the EU state, the free movement of people means they

:45:11. > :45:18.are entitled to get anywhere and under our law, asylum seekers get in

:45:19. > :45:23.the queue. I think my honourable friend makes an important point in

:45:24. > :45:29.respect of the citizenship stopping he will equally know that there are

:45:30. > :45:32.certain things we have adopted in relation to the character

:45:33. > :45:36.requirements and other steps that we take to assure ourselves in respect

:45:37. > :45:39.of those who may be granted citizenship will stop at a something

:45:40. > :45:45.that is conducted over a number of years before somebody would be so

:45:46. > :45:49.entitled, therefore it is not a symptomatic and underlines the point

:45:50. > :45:53.that I made which means we maintain our own border requirements and

:45:54. > :46:02.adhere to that very clearly for those who are not EU citizens. No

:46:03. > :46:06.problem, one of the refugees do not want to go to the countries which

:46:07. > :46:09.they have been allocated? If they are put and forcibly sent to

:46:10. > :46:18.countries they do not like or want to go to, that certainly has echoes

:46:19. > :46:20.of uncomfortable... I think he makes an honourable point on the operation

:46:21. > :46:27.of the scheme, that is something that has been a practical issue that

:46:28. > :46:29.EU Member States who are party to this have found. In terms of

:46:30. > :46:37.actually working with the migrants who have displayed an unwillingness

:46:38. > :46:39.to participate in terms of some of the relocation arrangements,

:46:40. > :46:43.contemplated by the measures subject to the debate this evening,

:46:44. > :46:48.therefore some of those practical issues that are having to be

:46:49. > :46:52.confronted. The situation in relation to the migration conscious

:46:53. > :46:56.my crisis is causally changing and requires a flexible response. Our

:46:57. > :47:01.approach has been designed to route diaper tag UK interest while making

:47:02. > :47:05.eight countries and to those in need and addressing the unprecedented

:47:06. > :47:08.challenges faced by partners. This is not proving to be successful.

:47:09. > :47:12.Time would be better spent on measures that would make a real

:47:13. > :47:15.difference, we must secure the border and provide protection to

:47:16. > :47:18.those who need it and return to those who do not. That is where the

:47:19. > :47:26.focus of this government will remain and I trust the House will be

:47:27. > :47:29.mindful and support the notion. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm

:47:30. > :47:36.glad we got the opportunity to debate this important issue today.

:47:37. > :47:39.Clinical unrest and widespread violations of human rights have led

:47:40. > :47:47.to millions of people being displaced. The UNHCR are saying

:47:48. > :47:52.there are millions of Syrian refugees alone and as the Minister

:47:53. > :47:55.said, the worst humanitarian crisis in Europe since the Second World War

:47:56. > :48:01.ended as the most important issue facing the EU. Over the last nine

:48:02. > :48:06.months, the EU have seen unprecedented levels of migration,

:48:07. > :48:12.with over 812,000 asylum seekers in the EU up to the end of September

:48:13. > :48:16.and the UNHCR are saying there are over 3000 the bulk tragically dead

:48:17. > :48:22.or missing from attempting crossings of the Mediterranean. The vast

:48:23. > :48:27.majority of the pressures of these incoming migrants has fallen on

:48:28. > :48:32.Italy and Greece with 99.5% of migrants crossing the Mediterranean,

:48:33. > :48:38.arriving in these two countries and that is the background to the EU

:48:39. > :48:45.proposed programme of relocation within the UK. Britain has rightly

:48:46. > :48:49.had an opt out in relation to migration matters and has decided

:48:50. > :48:58.not to opt back in on these measures. While we support that

:48:59. > :49:04.decision, it is disappointing that it has taken over six months of

:49:05. > :49:08.repeated prompting by the scrutiny committee to secure this debate on

:49:09. > :49:12.the floor of the House. We of course recognise that there are often

:49:13. > :49:15.fast-moving situations that the government should not be

:49:16. > :49:19.constrained, but we do think the government should reflect on the

:49:20. > :49:25.approach it has taken so far as the procedure is concerned. Let me turn

:49:26. > :49:31.to the substance, why we do not want to see Britain opt in to mandatory

:49:32. > :49:35.quotas, we do believe that we should still take an active role in

:49:36. > :49:40.tackling the migration crisis across the EU as well as on our doorstep.

:49:41. > :49:47.Here we take issue with the government's response. Just as we

:49:48. > :49:52.have joint military operations to play our part in tackling Isis, so

:49:53. > :49:58.we have a moral responsibility to work with EU states to help deal

:49:59. > :50:03.with the large number of refugees fleeing the barbaric conditions in

:50:04. > :50:08.Syria elsewhere. The government has of course pledged to accept 20,000

:50:09. > :50:12.refugees over the course of this Parliament, 4000 refugees a year.

:50:13. > :50:15.Labour calling the government to Labour calling the government to

:50:16. > :50:21.take action, this is undoubtedly a welcome step by the House.

:50:22. > :50:29.Government is still refusing to accept people in desperate need from

:50:30. > :50:36.other EU states. I would say the other 4000 refugees represents less

:50:37. > :50:41.than half of the refugees entering this year. That is not good enough.

:50:42. > :50:45.The UK has a proud history of offering sanctuary to those in need

:50:46. > :50:53.responsibilities. I give way. Could responsibilities. I give way. Could

:50:54. > :51:01.he explain how many things we ought to take and what are the criteria of

:51:02. > :51:07.that? I am grateful for that. The position we adopt is that mandatory

:51:08. > :51:13.quotas are not the way forward, any numbers taken in this country should

:51:14. > :51:21.be only on a voluntary basis. Our view is that in light of the failing

:51:22. > :51:26.of the policy, the government ought to read think on a voluntary basis

:51:27. > :51:33.whether we should take some numbers from Europe. -- rethink. It would be

:51:34. > :51:37.up to the government to decide what numbers, it was on a voluntary

:51:38. > :51:46.basis, it would be the right number. I think it has been suggested that

:51:47. > :51:51.if every city or county in Britain took ten families, we would be able

:51:52. > :51:55.to take perhaps 10,000 individuals. As I said in the first instance, we

:51:56. > :52:00.call on the government to reconsider its approach in light of the

:52:01. > :52:07.prevailing situation. It goes without saying, I should add, that

:52:08. > :52:12.under any scheme, a voluntary scheme in particular. There should be a

:52:13. > :52:20.robust vetting procedure wherever procedures take place. Therefore we

:52:21. > :52:25.call on the government to reconsider the refusal to take people relocated

:52:26. > :52:29.from other Member States on a voluntary basis without opting in to

:52:30. > :52:35.a mandatory system. And even if we are not part of the mandatory

:52:36. > :52:40.relocation scheme, we should be doing everything within our part

:52:41. > :52:47.power to ensure it is working effectively. The EU relocation

:52:48. > :52:52.scheme so far has relocated 130 individuals from Italy and from

:52:53. > :52:57.Greece of its intended 160,000 people. Which seems to us to

:52:58. > :53:01.indicate that it may be incapable of successfully dealing with the

:53:02. > :53:07.pressures being faced by Italy and Greece. In addition to that, only

:53:08. > :53:11.six of the 22 Member States have notified the EU that they have the

:53:12. > :53:17.capacity to host relocated individuals. We do ask what steps,

:53:18. > :53:24.if any, the government is taking to re-support -- support the

:53:25. > :53:27.relocation. We do raise a point that has been raised on more than one

:53:28. > :53:33.occasion by the scrutiny committee, it is this. Absent voluntary

:53:34. > :53:37.relocation, how does the government interpreted the principle of

:53:38. > :53:45.solidarity and fair sharing of responsibility in the EU? I turn to

:53:46. > :53:50.the questions that we have in relation to this motion which we

:53:51. > :53:54.support. Firstly could the Minister of Digby House on the number of

:53:55. > :53:57.Syrian refugees that have arrived in Britain since the Prime Minister

:53:58. > :54:05.announced that we will be taking 20,000 over the course of this

:54:06. > :54:10.Parliament? In addition, the home office has stated that there are 55

:54:11. > :54:14.local authorities that will be welcoming Syria refugees before

:54:15. > :54:19.Christmas. Could the Minister provide the House with an update of

:54:20. > :54:25.how many of those authorities have so far welcomed refugees? Thirdly,

:54:26. > :54:29.the government says they are reluctant to take migrants relocated

:54:30. > :54:34.within the EU for fear of creating new poll factors, and this produced

:54:35. > :54:43.little evidence that this would be the result of allowing internal

:54:44. > :54:48.relocation. As the European said scrutiny committee has observed,

:54:49. > :54:53.there has been no substance on this issue and on the pull factor

:54:54. > :54:59.argument. Surely we must recognise the desperation that is forcing

:55:00. > :55:04.people to leave their homes, journey to the EU in the knowledge that

:55:05. > :55:08.their loved months might not make it, is going to be a significant

:55:09. > :55:16.factor, no matter the programme put in place. -- loved ones. I wonder if

:55:17. > :55:21.the shadow Minister could assist us by explaining how many people leave

:55:22. > :55:29.Syria and how me people come into greased and why is there a large

:55:30. > :55:32.difference? I am not in a position to deal with the intervention, it is

:55:33. > :55:39.probably better put to the Minister. What I'm can, considering myself --

:55:40. > :55:43.concerning myself with is that the government has rightly said it will

:55:44. > :55:47.take refugees from outside Europe, and we support that. The question is

:55:48. > :55:54.what about those who have made it into Europe? Of course, the

:55:55. > :55:59.government does not want to get drawn into a mandatory relocation

:56:00. > :56:03.programme within Europe, but we question why there cannot be some

:56:04. > :56:10.voluntary arrangement that we could enter into to play our full part in

:56:11. > :56:15.solidarity and our fair responsibility for refugees across

:56:16. > :56:21.Europe. Just as we join with our other allies in defeating or trying

:56:22. > :56:25.to defeat Isis, and the causes of refugees and migrants, we should

:56:26. > :56:29.just play our full part in the crisis that is here in Europe, in

:56:30. > :56:34.very real terms with huge numbers already in Europe desperately

:56:35. > :56:41.needing relocation. And in a situation where all of the figures,

:56:42. > :56:44.at this early stage it looks like the relocation programme is not

:56:45. > :56:49.working as it was anticipated, as I said only 160 or so individuals have

:56:50. > :56:53.been relocated in the circumstances we do ask the question why the

:56:54. > :56:59.government should not the doing more.

:57:00. > :57:07.To me finish what I started to return to the way it which the

:57:08. > :57:11.method now comes before the House. Again, recognising that these are

:57:12. > :57:14.fast-moving situations, can the Minister give an assurance that the

:57:15. > :57:21.house will be properly updated at that time will be allow for proper

:57:22. > :57:22.scrutiny and debate asked this revocation policy rolls out over the

:57:23. > :57:40.coming weeks and months? Most grateful indeed. I had not

:57:41. > :57:53.realised that the had set them. I am grateful. Had been chairman of the

:57:54. > :57:56.European scrutiny committee, requested advice is to go to a

:57:57. > :58:03.number of meetings, going on for about. Two in Luxembourg, one in

:58:04. > :58:09.Brussels,, and when Italy's only Brussels,, and when Italy's only

:58:10. > :58:18.this last week in. And I want to pay tribute to the invitation from the

:58:19. > :58:25.Italian chairman of the standing committee of the Italian Parliament.

:58:26. > :58:31.The two is extremely important initiative, which was to bring

:58:32. > :58:36.together the chairperson of, or most of the national Wenceslaus abilities

:58:37. > :58:49.and every is that we are discussing today. First of all, I'll also let

:58:50. > :58:53.the referred to admitting that took place under Cossack, which is a body

:58:54. > :58:59.that consists of the national chairperson of the parliamentary

:59:00. > :59:09.national EU committees. Which is in fact also given a very wide remit of

:59:10. > :59:18.method of the kind we are discussing today and was frankly, although it

:59:19. > :59:21.is webcast and published, actually does not get in if they let the

:59:22. > :59:30.attention that it really deserves. I will save why, because having been

:59:31. > :59:35.on the committee for over 30 years, and having the chairperson for the

:59:36. > :59:41.last five and being reelected as chairman for this Parliament, but it

:59:42. > :59:49.is very important for me to say that I have never seen such an explosion

:59:50. > :59:54.of anger at a meeting of Cossack and all the times that I have been

:59:55. > :59:59.taking part in those meetings. The reason for it is the lack of

:00:00. > :00:09.democracy that live at the heart of this proposal. -- Alize. The member

:00:10. > :00:14.from Lieutenant was with me in Luxembourg, and he will bear witness

:00:15. > :00:22.to the sure anger and imposition against the wishes of the individual

:00:23. > :00:26.countries concerned. Go about five and all from Central and eastern

:00:27. > :00:29.Europe, who were absolutely furious at the way in which they've were

:00:30. > :00:40.having these mandatory controls imposed upon them. It does raise a

:00:41. > :00:45.fundamental question of insensitivity, tense sensitivity, to

:00:46. > :00:50.the people who live in this country. The way which the issues in the

:00:51. > :00:56.debate were discussed in the upper Rashomon, verified atmosphere of the

:00:57. > :01:02.EU and this institutional framework, there is almost no relationship to

:01:03. > :01:07.what is going on on the ground in regards to the voters themselves.

:01:08. > :01:09.With his national chairman coming together at this meeting, they

:01:10. > :01:18.expressed themselves and very clear language. This to me, apart from all

:01:19. > :01:23.the other things going on the referendum, our complaints about the

:01:24. > :01:30.single currency, the whole question of the straitjacket of the further

:01:31. > :01:36.political integration in the compression chamber, which I've been

:01:37. > :01:44.referred to since I led the rebellion on the to do back in 1990,

:01:45. > :01:50.to the compression chamber that was building up. What has happened is

:01:51. > :01:56.that this is an example of that very compression chamber which is now

:01:57. > :01:58.exploding and was made clear in the coal sector meetings. It was

:01:59. > :02:05.replicated yet again in the discussions that we had this last

:02:06. > :02:17.weekend on the Schengen agreement. I know that we are not members of the

:02:18. > :02:25.change in aggregate, I was with him and Luxembourg. What he suggests,

:02:26. > :02:29.what he agreed that this is to be some intimidation of smaller, less

:02:30. > :02:38.economically powerful patients being somewhat intimidated by the larger

:02:39. > :02:48.nations at that meeting? Culture to the point, the motion before before

:02:49. > :02:52.the meeting was whether or not the 27 -- 28 member states of repair,

:02:53. > :03:01.excluding ourselves and our lives, but actually welcomed the proposals

:03:02. > :03:06.that were sent out of the motion. The five countries concerned, the

:03:07. > :03:19.Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, having bolted as the Minister said,

:03:20. > :03:23.how to read, -- Hungary. These countries were being told

:03:24. > :03:31.effectively that they should go a long with his mandatory abridgments.

:03:32. > :03:35.In respect to the parliament... Parliamentary resentments of it and

:03:36. > :03:39.that votes against the. And applications to the courts of

:03:40. > :03:47.Justice. They were effectively being told that they were from and that

:03:48. > :03:53.when they simply said that the motion should take note of the

:03:54. > :04:00.relocation proposals, which was overgenerous of them, but they were

:04:01. > :04:03.giving to accept the notion that they should welcome this. That is

:04:04. > :04:08.what led to the explosion in the debate going on. Going on for over

:04:09. > :04:25.four hours about that very question. It must not be underestimated. This

:04:26. > :04:34.is not something... This is about average number a total democracy in

:04:35. > :04:38.the EU, and posing by a mandatory abridgments, a settlement on

:04:39. > :04:43.countries who simply do not want to do so. It is a perfect example of

:04:44. > :04:48.what I described at the compression chamber, blowing up in those

:04:49. > :04:51.circumstances. That is the background to which I think we

:04:52. > :04:56.should be considering this. It is not just a question of whether or

:04:57. > :05:01.not we like it or not. It is a question of how the EU operates and

:05:02. > :05:06.practice. Is not just on that. Look at how the Greeks were treated by

:05:07. > :05:13.the Germans with regard to the whole of the austerity programme. The way

:05:14. > :05:21.did the Portuguese president disregarded and ignored and refuse

:05:22. > :05:29.to accept the decision of the voters by not acknowledging the new party

:05:30. > :05:34.of government a few weeks ago. The list is very considerable. As far as

:05:35. > :05:42.I'm concerned, that is really the basis to which this off of the

:05:43. > :05:46.judge. I am delighted, but not surprised, that the government has

:05:47. > :05:53.decided it would not cost them into these abridgments because to say the

:05:54. > :06:01.least, that's these abridgments, I said this was some assume the other,

:06:02. > :06:04.but our policy are shunted to the problem of refugees at source, is in

:06:05. > :06:12.fact the best way to go about this. Not to allow these people in, but at

:06:13. > :06:20.the meeting this Friday, we have the issue of why did Germany take the

:06:21. > :06:28.line that it could. The answer was very much to do with their desire to

:06:29. > :06:36.have more people working in the country, it was for economic region.

:06:37. > :06:38.-- recent. They want to compensate for the bridge of their current

:06:39. > :06:45.rapid global working age population quite some, this was done in respect

:06:46. > :06:55.of the impact that is going to have by the EU. Because that is what

:06:56. > :06:59.Germany wants. Angela Merkel's popularity has pummeled over the

:07:00. > :07:05.last few weeks. Because she has missed justice as it might have

:07:06. > :07:10.taken -- missed justice, but the point is to bring in a million

:07:11. > :07:15.people into Germany, which is basically what has happened, is not

:07:16. > :07:20.the end. It at the beginning of the store. Those looking people are

:07:21. > :07:29.themselves going to have their own children, going to bring to families

:07:30. > :07:37.over as well. The whole human rights is going to be made available to

:07:38. > :07:41.them. This is an opening, but I described the other day as a

:07:42. > :07:45.tsunami. On top of that, there is the question which I referred to on

:07:46. > :07:51.a number of occasions on the floor before. Nobody can doubt for a

:07:52. > :07:58.moment that there are a number, albeit perhaps a small number, of

:07:59. > :08:04.Jihad is amongst those people who have come over. The reality is that

:08:05. > :08:11.you only need a few to brief the kind of havoc that we witnessed in

:08:12. > :08:14.Paris. For those that would criticise people like myself for

:08:15. > :08:20.mentioning this, the fact is that it is a fact that is what is happening.

:08:21. > :08:28.It is on a scale, which is unprecedented, since the Second

:08:29. > :08:35.World War. Does the bimbo actually have hard evidence of the jihad is

:08:36. > :08:40.arriving in the UK under the disguise of terrorist? What he also

:08:41. > :08:50.agreed that some threats that the post, should we abolish the police?

:08:51. > :08:54.We know it, because there are people who are declared jihadists, who have

:08:55. > :09:04.been in Syria, and other parts of the Middle East. Jihad a John is a

:09:05. > :09:08.very good example. These are declared jihadists who came from the

:09:09. > :09:12.UK. But I was not making the point of the UK in this context am

:09:13. > :09:20.although I do perceive the data that. , referring to the fact that

:09:21. > :09:25.there is no doubt of those those have been to see every a and come

:09:26. > :09:30.back again, to routes which enabled him to come to Paris, contribute to

:09:31. > :09:36.the carnage. If people are going to dispute that, they can do that. But

:09:37. > :09:43.the facts are clear. These are broad problems which have to be addressed,

:09:44. > :09:46.and this is a important part of the debate. People can have different

:09:47. > :09:52.views about that, but the reality is that there are real dangers and all

:09:53. > :09:55.of this. The other thing I am about to say in respect to the manner in

:09:56. > :10:05.which the government has dealt with this, and I want to make this

:10:06. > :10:11.briefly. The opt in decision, with the scheduling of the debate, and

:10:12. > :10:17.administer past their briefly over this and am a sort of apology for

:10:18. > :10:25.what had happened. -- made a sort of. The fact is that scheduling a

:10:26. > :10:28.debate after the government has reached a opt in decision makes a

:10:29. > :10:37.mockery of the government's this task of immature but they have said,

:10:38. > :10:42.which is enhanced scrutiny of its opt in decisions. And a mockery of a

:10:43. > :10:48.full and transparency and accountability to Parliament. What

:10:49. > :10:51.actually happened was that the government has provided no

:10:52. > :10:55.explanation, even this evening, for his failure to schedule and often

:10:56. > :10:59.debate during the September setting a Parliament. With the house could

:11:00. > :11:05.have expressed the views of opting into the first relocation proposals,

:11:06. > :11:09.or is dogged to schedule and often debate before the expiry of the opt

:11:10. > :11:17.in deadline, which was on the 8th of November. Would he be more

:11:18. > :11:22.sympathetic to the government if it were true that it was nearly two

:11:23. > :11:27.years ago and January 2013 that European scrutiny committee

:11:28. > :11:30.requested a debate on the floor of the house of the movement of people

:11:31. > :11:36.and his failure to schedule a debate has been long-standing. Powerful to

:11:37. > :11:41.occur for government to do better. On this occasion, they have done a

:11:42. > :11:45.lot worse. The delay and scheduling the debate is inconsistent with the

:11:46. > :11:51.letter in the spirit of the commitments made to Parliament by

:11:52. > :12:04.the Minister for Europe. Timer to another subject, -- turning to

:12:05. > :12:06.another subject, them and the ultimate apology for which the

:12:07. > :12:20.minute this has been dealt with. I'm sure he give give it. Is he

:12:21. > :12:25.listening to what I am saying? I'm grateful to him for allowing me to

:12:26. > :12:29.make an intervention. When I gave evidence to the scrutiny committee,

:12:30. > :12:35.the government has had to deal with a fast-moving situation. We are

:12:36. > :12:40.sorry that it has not been possible to have database in a way in which

:12:41. > :12:43.we would choose to, but I think it has been reflective of a exceptional

:12:44. > :12:46.circumstances that would have been delayed with. There have been the

:12:47. > :12:51.opportunities for debate and to respond to questions by which

:12:52. > :12:59.statements, has been in a situation we have mistaken to respond to. Is

:13:00. > :13:08.that an apology? On to know whether it in the circumstances, the

:13:09. > :13:11.ministers to keep his calm, it is very important that he should

:13:12. > :13:16.understand that these are matters leading to the standing orders of

:13:17. > :13:19.the House of Commons on a purely personal opinions. This is something

:13:20. > :13:32.that which we are very concerned about. Kosovo would he has been

:13:33. > :13:39.saying. -- I support. Demanded to talk about matters of being

:13:40. > :13:44.fast-moving. I think a two year debate is not a fast-moving. When a

:13:45. > :13:57.dozen wanted to be, and moves very slowly the. -- in the. The remarks

:13:58. > :14:04.read by my Honorable friend. The point is made. And the joint address

:14:05. > :14:09.to the European Parliament on the 7th of October, the German

:14:10. > :14:15.Chancellor described the Dublin roles as obsolete. The first

:14:16. > :14:18.president highlighted a link between the Dublin roles and the proper

:14:19. > :14:26.functioning of the Schengen free boom in every a and said, call into

:14:27. > :14:32.question the free movement of people are returning to internal border

:14:33. > :14:38.controls would be a tragic error. He went onto say that pretending that

:14:39. > :14:42.in, which is current way of functioning, allowed us 2-faced

:14:43. > :14:47.birder pressures would be another mistake. Dashboard or. It the

:14:48. > :14:50.government system at risk of breaking down and can further

:14:51. > :14:58.fragmentation of the shank in the free boom in every a be avoided? At

:14:59. > :15:04.the meeting I had this weekend, there was an extraordinary

:15:05. > :15:08.contradiction that arise for discussion. On the one hand, the

:15:09. > :15:16.people who went there with her and just to be sure that we had a proper

:15:17. > :15:18.border control system. But were insisting on an external border

:15:19. > :15:29.system and the Minister is aware of this. The irony of the situation is

:15:30. > :15:37.that just at the same time that our insisting on having a greater border

:15:38. > :15:42.controls, and I have said on another note that cases that is almost more

:15:43. > :15:49.barbed wire endures today than was during the the Cold War. The reality

:15:50. > :15:56.is that they also want to have a complete external border system,

:15:57. > :16:05.surroundings the whole of the queue. Presumably, with the exception of

:16:06. > :16:14.the non-Schengen countries. Of the Minister will appreciate what is

:16:15. > :16:21.building up is that under the pressure under the migrant crisis,

:16:22. > :16:28.hybrid desire to to printer -- to go to further, complete border control

:16:29. > :16:31.moved to political union, because of the pressure that has been exerted,

:16:32. > :16:37.but at the same time wanting to have a fact of border controls. B-2s

:16:38. > :16:41.things are inconsistent. I understand that the government is

:16:42. > :16:48.not proposing to actually paid taxpayer monies to the purposes of

:16:49. > :16:52.furthering increasing the effectiveness of context. When you

:16:53. > :17:00.consider the skill of the border, the mass of every a of -- a massive

:17:01. > :17:05.area of the European continent, which is supposed to be completely

:17:06. > :17:11.sealed off by the external borders, the cost of doing so are going to be

:17:12. > :17:21.absolutely monumental. The effectiveness has already been

:17:22. > :17:25.demonstrated as being proven to have been ineffective. It does not work.

:17:26. > :17:31.I doubt whether it is possible to make it work. At the same time, we

:17:32. > :17:37.are getting more pressures exerted towards a deeper integration of the

:17:38. > :17:42.EU to this insistence of external borders. I would like to minister to

:17:43. > :17:46.tell us how it is that we will be able to have an effective system of

:17:47. > :17:52.the kind that is now being proposed, with able external border for Anna

:17:53. > :17:58.has Schengen, while at the same time to stay in the EU as a United

:17:59. > :18:04.Kingdom. I see this as a very important moment in terms of having

:18:05. > :18:10.to leave the EU. The Schengen arrangements reinforce, as

:18:11. > :18:19.taxpayers, they expected to contribute to that, by the same time

:18:20. > :18:23.increasing pressures to do political union seems to be a subject on which

:18:24. > :18:35.we should be speaking more clearly and loudly. There are real dangers

:18:36. > :18:37.and all of this. I simply think bringing in the Turkish action plan

:18:38. > :18:42.into operation is making this even more intractable. There are more

:18:43. > :18:50.things that could be said about that, but at this moment in time the

:18:51. > :18:55.internal borders control within the Schengen free area, with the Germany

:18:56. > :19:02.and several other countries, the reintroduction of border control

:19:03. > :19:07.justified on the ground of public security until security, imposed

:19:08. > :19:11.unilaterally without prior notice, whereas the Schengen border

:19:12. > :19:17.testifies at a maximum period of two months. They are in breach that, the

:19:18. > :19:21.Minister may confirm. I haven't turned the Germany is facing

:19:22. > :19:27.infraction proceedings because of this. Angela Merkel is facing very

:19:28. > :19:31.substantial pressures from within her own country as a result of the

:19:32. > :19:41.mistakes that have been made. The reality is that this commission

:19:42. > :19:47.obtained in them a which has led independent... And the risk of a

:19:48. > :19:52.domino effect, were unilateral action by one as an immediate effect

:19:53. > :19:56.on the security of its neighbouring countries is causing the most

:19:57. > :20:00.enormous amount of pressure and a number of volcanic impressions,

:20:01. > :20:10.which are going on in the countries concerned. People simply will not

:20:11. > :20:19.wear it. I welcome the chance to debate this issue. Like the other

:20:20. > :20:26.member, I've disappointed how long it takes to bring it to chamber. --

:20:27. > :20:31.I am. Six months at the EU commission first asked for this

:20:32. > :20:37.debate, maybe even longer. Chair the committee has come through on some

:20:38. > :20:46.detail of the steps the committee has had to take in order to get this

:20:47. > :20:54.debate. On the 11th of December, the committee finally got an answer to

:20:55. > :21:01.some of the questions. Today, six days after his two legs a chance

:21:02. > :21:08.attended the government's mind that the deadline has passed. I find it

:21:09. > :21:12.impossible not to contest the government's willingness to cancel

:21:13. > :21:15.an entire day of business in the chamber to hold a debate that we

:21:16. > :21:24.wanted to hold after the bombing of Syria stop with. How good it should

:21:25. > :21:36.be doing more to help some of the millions of innocent victims of the

:21:37. > :21:39.bombs that have already fallen. I wonder whether he'd like to be

:21:40. > :21:44.slightly more precise with his wording. We are not bombing Syria,

:21:45. > :21:50.we are bombing Daesh in Syria. I think it will be very helpful if all

:21:51. > :21:53.members of the chamber would use those words so there is no

:21:54. > :22:05.misunderstanding of what we bolted on. -- posted on. I did actually,

:22:06. > :22:11.did make a point that people were talking about have already fled, or

:22:12. > :22:21.are in the process of fleeing from the conflict that is going on.

:22:22. > :22:25.Haven't taken... Who suggest that the moral responsibility of the UK

:22:26. > :22:29.is even greater than it was before. -- I would. We are now part of that

:22:30. > :22:34.war and bear a responsibility to help to pick up some of the

:22:35. > :22:41.consequences of that war and to do whatever we can to have. The SNP

:22:42. > :22:46.will can I get an entire endorsement to the government's decision to the

:22:47. > :22:56.proposal. Die because we believe the proposal are perfect. But because

:22:57. > :23:02.the proposals are an ill attempt to recognise that this crisis is far

:23:03. > :23:10.too big for anyone or two countries to cope with. It is far too

:23:11. > :23:20.important, literate life and death, to risk the chaos that would ensue

:23:21. > :23:23.if 27 different countries would be. Rebar had a taste what happens when

:23:24. > :23:29.individual countries unilaterally at a moments notice closed borders,

:23:30. > :23:33.open the borders. Off of them to some people, and not to others. That

:23:34. > :23:41.is how we end up with tens of thousands of people behind fences --

:23:42. > :23:50.Barb wire. That is what violence escalates. -- when. And a moral and

:23:51. > :23:54.compassionate response to what has been rightly described as the worst

:23:55. > :24:02.humanitarian crisis that we will ever witness. Kumasi as a crisis

:24:03. > :24:08.about protecting the victims of war, not about a crisis of immigration

:24:09. > :24:16.that has caused by the victims. Should be for the welfare of

:24:17. > :24:19.millions, authorities. Millions of citizens of this planet that we

:24:20. > :24:26.share a common humanity and to whom we owe a moral and legal duty to

:24:27. > :24:33.protect as far as we possibly can. Haven't taken a decision to move

:24:34. > :24:38.even a Paros part of that, done that in the UK, I would argue intercepted

:24:39. > :24:43.a moral responsibility to help secure the features of the victims

:24:44. > :24:46.of that war. And the numbers that we're speaking about truly

:24:47. > :24:51.breathtaking. We know that at least for the gay people have already fled

:24:52. > :25:01.Syria. Seven looked more have been displaced within their homeland. --

:25:02. > :25:03.4 million people. With the entire population of London losing

:25:04. > :25:12.everything, their homes destroyed, the families... Surely these people

:25:13. > :25:22.deserve the best future and the best support that we have. Given that the

:25:23. > :25:26.government on the vices that the UK military action as likely to last

:25:27. > :25:31.figures, this is not as a short-term problem that will be fixed with a

:25:32. > :25:35.short-term solution. Not enough that the old money for emergency aid. We

:25:36. > :25:46.had to be looking at massive infrastructure spending to provide

:25:47. > :25:52.million to help millions of people. That are simply not credible to

:25:53. > :25:55.suggest that three or four countries around the Mediterranean can be

:25:56. > :25:58.expected to provide all of that by themselves, even if that is a

:25:59. > :26:08.significant influx of cash from the UK and elsewhere. The Minister

:26:09. > :26:12.stated, unable to identify the countries and all of the Middle East

:26:13. > :26:16.that has been able to provide safety and access to the other essential

:26:17. > :26:23.services for refugees. Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. The Minister

:26:24. > :26:25.declined to say despite a direct question, the Salmon refugees the

:26:26. > :26:32.government thinks those countries can't realistically hold the. --

:26:33. > :26:38.can't realistically hold. I think it is around 4 million, but not to

:26:39. > :26:42.again no more. Expecting a race to provide the whole infrastructures to

:26:43. > :26:47.support all the refugees who have ended up there for a period of three

:26:48. > :26:52.gears, is simply unrealistic. Not just about the money, will not be

:26:53. > :26:55.possible for groups to produce infrastructure to look at that, to

:26:56. > :27:00.house, to educate the number of desperate refugees that are already

:27:01. > :27:05.trying to support. The government has his own reasons to draw the

:27:06. > :27:10.lines and to encourage us to think of these men, women, and children as

:27:11. > :27:18.willing economic migrants. Even suggesting some of them may be

:27:19. > :27:21.terrorist in disguise. These are not voluntary migrants. Did do not have

:27:22. > :27:26.volunteered to have the whole blown to pieces. That do not volunteer to

:27:27. > :27:29.have that family is killed. They have refugees who are playing for

:27:30. > :27:34.deadlines and the lives of the children. If they stay at home, the

:27:35. > :27:39.children will die. We have a more right to health. Humanitarian crisis

:27:40. > :27:46.in and around the Mediterranean shelters that that will purposely

:27:47. > :27:49.applied, we should look at the refugees... Hopefuls are not fit for

:27:50. > :27:54.purpose given the scale of what are experiencing now. Data designed to

:27:55. > :28:02.expect one country to cope with 60,000 migrants, they are not. To

:28:03. > :28:08.look after the welfare of hundreds of thousands refugees, and opinion

:28:09. > :28:12.of this every few months. I think it is reasonable to expect that the

:28:13. > :28:18.initial process of confirming identity security checks,

:28:19. > :28:25.registrations, of refugees to take place as close as possible to where

:28:26. > :28:31.the people have landed in the EU. Had to say I find is that phrase

:28:32. > :28:43.demeaning. Rather than a place opportunity to show groups of the

:28:44. > :28:46.kindest. The approach... Is one in principle we can support and I know

:28:47. > :28:50.that the government supports a. But if it is not done properly, and

:28:51. > :28:59.might as well not be done at all. For a lot of the last six months,...

:29:00. > :29:03.And the fact that that is happening in this continent is something of

:29:04. > :29:07.which every one of us should be utterly ashamed. Not because the

:29:08. > :29:12.agencies and volunteers don't care, but because they simply don't have

:29:13. > :29:17.the capacity and resources to do the past that affected the. Esalen have

:29:18. > :29:21.refugees have gone through the process, they then should be held to

:29:22. > :29:26.get to the destination as quickly as possible bisect means, legal means,

:29:27. > :29:31.and by dignified means. These are human beings with talking about

:29:32. > :29:40.something that needs to be done with the full cooperation between the

:29:41. > :29:45.countries of Europe,. Paradigm, one every aware we cannot support the

:29:46. > :29:49.government's recusal to be apart any of the options that have been put

:29:50. > :29:59.forward. I get an impression that the government is so anxious about

:30:00. > :30:04.persuading this supporters,... So important, that it would be

:30:05. > :30:08.compromised on, even if it prevents us from honouring the legal and

:30:09. > :30:13.moral obligations to be had to some of the most vulnerable and desperate

:30:14. > :30:18.citizens. I find it astonishing that the same people who less than two

:30:19. > :30:26.weeks ago work at Democrats for not showing solidarity with our allies,

:30:27. > :30:31.should not be so resistant to show solidarity and supporting and

:30:32. > :30:35.protecting innocent victims of war. The government is asking us to grew

:30:36. > :30:39.wheat with the decision not to take part in the EU skin, we believe that

:30:40. > :30:44.this decision is wrong and it was a bad decision taken for the bumpers

:30:45. > :30:48.of. Tonight's but will force the government to change his mind, but

:30:49. > :30:51.we believe there is a principle at stake here, which is important

:30:52. > :30:55.enough that we want to put on record and believes that the UK Government

:30:56. > :30:58.is failing to live up to this more obligation that for that reason we

:30:59. > :31:02.will be opposing the motion letter to my.

:31:03. > :31:09.I support the government's decision to exercise the opt out and am

:31:10. > :31:13.pleased that the government and official opposition agree that the

:31:14. > :31:18.United Kingdom should not be part of the Schengen system. Then please the

:31:19. > :31:25.opposition and the government wants to exercise this opt out. As an

:31:26. > :31:31.island nation with our neighbours, the Republic of Ireland, with the

:31:32. > :31:35.three countries of our printable island entirely surrounded by

:31:36. > :31:41.Niland, it clearly makes sense for the United Kingdom to have our own

:31:42. > :31:46.border arrangements. It is fundamental to a sovereign people in

:31:47. > :31:48.a sovereign parliament that one of the decisions we should be automated

:31:49. > :31:54.for ourselves is who we invite in and on what terms we invite them in

:31:55. > :31:59.to become citizens of our country. It is a great privilege to be a

:32:00. > :32:01.citizen of our country, brings the benefits and responsibilities and

:32:02. > :32:06.surely that is something that this Parliament should wish to make with

:32:07. > :32:10.them government offering guidance and leadership so that we can ensure

:32:11. > :32:16.that we are in control of this fundamental point. The government in

:32:17. > :32:20.its answer to interventions for my right honourable friend the

:32:21. > :32:24.Minister's contribution so far has indicated that even though we have

:32:25. > :32:30.opted ourselves out of this particular proposal for allocating

:32:31. > :32:35.refugees and other recent arrivals in the European Union under a

:32:36. > :32:40.system, we are still in a position where what they do with their

:32:41. > :32:48.external frontier in Shengen does matter to us, the United Kingdom.

:32:49. > :32:53.All the time we remain under the view of the European Union we have

:32:54. > :32:57.to accept the roles. That means that any other part of the European Union

:32:58. > :33:00.accepts people in, then in due course, they will be eligible to

:33:01. > :33:08.move to the United Kingdom so that we are interested directly in how

:33:09. > :33:13.they'd conduct themselves and what they wish to do in terms of inviting

:33:14. > :33:17.people inside. We are interested in their policy that we opted out of

:33:18. > :33:27.because the British Government is nonetheless agreed to spend money

:33:28. > :33:30.and resources to help police, the common exterior of the Schengen area

:33:31. > :33:38.and we have resources to tackle some part of the desperate problem they

:33:39. > :33:46.EU migration problem, it crisis has caused. -- then need rescuing by

:33:47. > :33:54.Royal Navy and other royal contingents. Does he have any idea,

:33:55. > :34:00.maybe he could invite the Minister to consider the extent to which we

:34:01. > :34:05.will pay a share of the costs he just referred to because as I

:34:06. > :34:12.understand it, it could be as much as ?150 million, but because of the

:34:13. > :34:16.nature of the cost of providing for Schengen relocation which is getting

:34:17. > :34:22.to be ever increasing, therefore presuming the amount would go up? I

:34:23. > :34:26.think that is an important issue that the chairman of the scrutiny

:34:27. > :34:37.committee has rightly raised. I would also like to say that I think

:34:38. > :34:43.it is a disgrace that our rich and resourceful continent is facing this

:34:44. > :34:50.huge crisis on the scale that we now see it, with many refugees and

:34:51. > :34:54.economic migrants arriving. And the system is unable to cope with them.

:34:55. > :35:00.May I ask why that is, and these people that do not wish to see these

:35:01. > :35:04.people these hazardous journeys and do not feel it is decent the way

:35:05. > :35:08.European policy is impacting on them and we need to influence our

:35:09. > :35:11.partners in the European Union to do something better. Again, I find

:35:12. > :35:15.myself in complete agreement with the government, I think the

:35:16. > :35:20.government is right that the right thing to do for refugees is to work

:35:21. > :35:23.with the United Nations and our partners to make sure there is a

:35:24. > :35:29.safe place of refuge near to the place they have fled from in the

:35:30. > :35:32.first instance, and they are, to talk to them and consider who would

:35:33. > :35:39.like to come to countries in Europe and elsewhere and on what basis we

:35:40. > :35:46.would admit people from those camps. That surely is the humane way to do

:35:47. > :35:49.it. That obviates the need to take people on the hazardous journeys and

:35:50. > :35:54.expensive journeys so that only the richest and the fittest can

:35:55. > :35:58.undertake those journeys and discovered that the hazards become

:35:59. > :36:02.too great and they may lose their lives and need rescuing from the

:36:03. > :36:06.Mediterranean. Surely the money we are spending rescuing people would

:36:07. > :36:11.be better spent on an orderly system closer to where they are fleeing

:36:12. > :36:15.from and helping them get legal transport to countries of their

:36:16. > :36:20.choice where they have been offered that facility. It would also mean

:36:21. > :36:23.that we would make clearer and better distinctions between those

:36:24. > :36:26.who are economic migrants and those who are genuine refugees. There are

:36:27. > :36:33.a lot of genuine refugees from a country like Syria, different

:36:34. > :36:36.considerations to how we should reply and to economic migrants

:36:37. > :36:45.coming from a range of Eastern European and African countries at

:36:46. > :36:49.the same time. I wonder, given the honourable gentleman's comments if

:36:50. > :36:55.he had anything further to add to the unaccompanied children arriving

:36:56. > :37:00.in Europe who appear to be extremely vulnerable and in need of

:37:01. > :37:06.assistance? Of course, our hearts go out to them and it should not be

:37:07. > :37:13.happening. It is only happening because adults have allowed it to

:37:14. > :37:21.happen or have made it happen. Adults somewhere in the process have

:37:22. > :37:24.persuaded the children to do it or not to do it and put them in the

:37:25. > :37:30.hands of traffickers who may then been that might be very destructive

:37:31. > :37:36.with their lives. The United Kingdom is quite large but we cannot get

:37:37. > :37:39.into the details of all of those parents, aunts, and uncles who

:37:40. > :37:51.committed these children to these hazardous journeys. There are adults

:37:52. > :37:54.who should have been... Surely in the European Union with all of these

:37:55. > :38:00.powerful rich countries could do a better job in coming up with some

:38:01. > :38:05.orderly way of handing help and assistance in a sensible way to

:38:06. > :38:12.those who are genuine refugees and are being forced out of their

:38:13. > :38:15.war-torn country or area by civil wars or violence and also sending a

:38:16. > :38:19.clear message to those who are economic migrants by Mike migrants

:38:20. > :38:23.that there is an orderly system for that, they are not welcome at they

:38:24. > :38:26.turn up as a legal, illegal migrants, they should go through a

:38:27. > :38:29.proper process in the country they are coming from or in a place

:38:30. > :38:33.adjacent to where they're coming from if they have already started on

:38:34. > :38:41.their journey. That it would be a better way of doing it. I feel like

:38:42. > :38:44.Angela Merkel for the best of reasons, because she felt very sorry

:38:45. > :38:48.for these peoples for my people suggest that many of them should

:38:49. > :38:52.turn up. I think it compounded the problem and far from being a caring

:38:53. > :38:55.solution, it actually meant that many thousands more people committed

:38:56. > :39:00.themselves to hazardous journeys only defined in the end when they

:39:01. > :39:03.arrived that other countries in the European Union did not have the same

:39:04. > :39:10.view as Angela Merkel, the policy was not clear, that certain borders

:39:11. > :39:13.were shut in a rather unpleasant way with razor wire and high fences

:39:14. > :39:20.because the net to Mike numbers were too great and cannot be handled. So,

:39:21. > :39:22.I support this particular for Pozo and would urge the government to do

:39:23. > :39:28.far more with our partners to try and persuade them, the EU policy is

:39:29. > :39:35.letting down the refugees and migrants, letting down the Member

:39:36. > :39:40.States and the inhabitants of the European Union, but it is a vital

:39:41. > :39:46.interest to us, because we want the EU to have a more caring policy. But

:39:47. > :39:52.also because policy is taken in other countries can't come to have a

:39:53. > :39:56.direct up, impact on our our own own migration policy as a member of this

:39:57. > :40:02.body as part of the freedom of movement provisions. But I do think

:40:03. > :40:05.that many people watching these awful tragedies unfold on their

:40:06. > :40:08.televisions, reading their newspapers and even perhaps hearing

:40:09. > :40:14.some of our debates here will come to the conclusion that as an island

:40:15. > :40:20.nation, we can control and should control our own borders and if we do

:40:21. > :40:28.it humanely in the European Union is doing and mainly for Brent, that is

:40:29. > :40:34.the best answer. I will not speak for long but I think it is important

:40:35. > :40:41.to say something about this. I support my honourable friend on the

:40:42. > :40:46.front bench on the behaving in a humane way towards migrants and the

:40:47. > :40:54.small numbers that are currently being allowed into our country. I do

:40:55. > :40:58.believe like him that we should take more of these desperate people into

:40:59. > :41:07.our country from areas where they risk death on a daily basis. That is

:41:08. > :41:11.the first point. Secondly, I support the government's position, I think

:41:12. > :41:19.it is right that these countries should be able to have their own

:41:20. > :41:22.controls, but if other countries in the European Union ought to be able

:41:23. > :41:30.to control their own borders as well. Of course that is what has

:41:31. > :41:34.caused the enormous row that the honourable member from the scrutiny

:41:35. > :41:41.committee and member from Stone talked about. I do believe myself

:41:42. > :41:47.that it is a fundamental component in democracy that people control

:41:48. > :41:51.their own borders, and the people that come in their country.

:41:52. > :41:57.Sometimes we do not do that but on the other hand it is fundamental

:41:58. > :42:04.that borders do matter, we try to eliminate borders in pursuit of some

:42:05. > :42:07.superstate which is effectively what is happening in the European Union,

:42:08. > :42:14.I think it is a mistake and it will come to a sticky end in the end I

:42:15. > :42:17.believe. It is possible that tensions are rising very strongly at

:42:18. > :42:21.the moment. But when it comes to allocating refugees to different

:42:22. > :42:24.countries, I mentioned earlier on in the intervention that they may not

:42:25. > :42:29.want to go to the countries they are being allocated to. There is also,

:42:30. > :42:33.if they are allocated to countries they do not want to go to, they will

:42:34. > :42:37.not be made welcome and will not be cared for, may not be well treated

:42:38. > :42:46.when they get there so there is another serious problem. Having a

:42:47. > :42:49.much more sensible way of helping refugees go to places where they are

:42:50. > :42:53.going to have some kind of welcome where they will be welcomed and

:42:54. > :42:57.looked after, where they want to go, I think that would be much more

:42:58. > :43:07.sensible than having an allocation policy. We can do this, but I do

:43:08. > :43:12.think other countries in the European Union should take the same

:43:13. > :43:19.position that we are. I think it has been a mistake, and if we want to

:43:20. > :43:24.recruit people from other countries with skills we need, that is fine.

:43:25. > :43:28.That can be done on a temporary or permanent basis but it should be a

:43:29. > :43:35.choice, not the choice of some supernatural body, this is the rules

:43:36. > :43:39.of our club. And you ought to accept those rules, I do not accept those

:43:40. > :43:45.roles, and I think many people in Britain do not accept those rules.

:43:46. > :43:50.There is a conflict between the need to ensure that we behave in a humane

:43:51. > :43:55.way than other people, and humanitarian actions are something

:43:56. > :44:02.we all admire and want to adopt ourselves. But, when you get very

:44:03. > :44:09.large substantial unregulated movements of people, I'm talking

:44:10. > :44:14.about large movements, this can mitigate against those rules. There

:44:15. > :44:20.comes a point when people say we cannot go. Destabilising mass of

:44:21. > :44:26.population movements are not good for humane behaviour. In the 19th

:44:27. > :44:32.century we had vast open spaces in the United States, South America,

:44:33. > :44:39.Australia, and elsewhere, and they were returning people because they

:44:40. > :44:41.needed people, it was not a problem. Indeed, we recruited people

:44:42. > :44:47.ourselves from Ireland in particular, from elsewhere as well.

:44:48. > :44:52.We have been humane in certain immigrations, I remember when I was

:44:53. > :44:58.younger in the 1960s, it was the Uganda nations were being threatened

:44:59. > :45:02.very seriously threatened. We accepted them into our country and

:45:03. > :45:07.indeed we have members of our own house now who are descended from

:45:08. > :45:11.that population and they have made a massive conjuration to our society

:45:12. > :45:17.so we have behaved well in the past, when these movements become so large

:45:18. > :45:27.and they are seemingly unstoppable, I think our humanity starts to break

:45:28. > :45:31.down. Humanity starts to break down, saying we cannot cope, there is a

:45:32. > :45:41.desperate housing prices, and we have to be able to say... He has a

:45:42. > :45:51.point but could he tell us if Dean is going destabilising anything --

:45:52. > :45:57.how could it destabilise anything? I have said that as my honourable

:45:58. > :46:02.friend on the front bench is said, we should be accepting more people

:46:03. > :46:09.from Syria and I think we should be doing that in doing our part in

:46:10. > :46:17.helping refugees except their terrible situation. -- escape. That

:46:18. > :46:24.being said, we are not going to have an open border policy where large

:46:25. > :46:30.numbers of people come through, I think this causes political

:46:31. > :46:34.destabilisation and I think it would not be good. In Germany where the

:46:35. > :46:40.population was probably because of the birth rate, they have indeed

:46:41. > :46:48.innate successful industrial company, country, ours is increasing

:46:49. > :46:54.rapidly, we could rapidly overtake Germany to become the largest

:46:55. > :46:58.population, largest country in population in the European Union. We

:46:59. > :47:02.are in a very different situation than Germany, if we had a shortage

:47:03. > :47:10.and lots of space, lots of vacant housing as well, we would be wanting

:47:11. > :47:14.to recruit more people. Has he himself also heard that our own

:47:15. > :47:21.population is growing exponentially and in fact, we are going up to

:47:22. > :47:27.around 70 million quite soon. And that the increase is way beyond the

:47:28. > :47:35.space and capacity of the United Kingdom expenditure? I do not want

:47:36. > :47:38.to get into number, specifically, but our population is increasing

:47:39. > :47:46.substantially, the German population is falling and other populations are

:47:47. > :47:52.falling. They will no doubt want to recruit more people to make sure

:47:53. > :47:57.that they have sufficient young and energetic people to make their

:47:58. > :48:04.economies carry on working well. Doctors Without Borders estimates

:48:05. > :48:08.that 466,000 people have arrived in the shores of lust was, their

:48:09. > :48:12.population is around 86,000, and we have a responsibility to help those

:48:13. > :48:18.people who cannot possibly deal with that level of new people arriving in

:48:19. > :48:21.their country? I said that I agree that we should take more, we should

:48:22. > :48:29.be doing more to help those refugees. And I do not think that

:48:30. > :48:34.allocating in a compulsory wait to countries across the European Union

:48:35. > :48:39.or indeed having a free flow of people, migrants across the

:48:40. > :48:47.continent would be a sensible way. I think in the end I would -- it would

:48:48. > :48:51.be an intimate way of looking after people. I think the government is

:48:52. > :48:59.right in this occasion, and I hope people agree, but I think the

:49:00. > :49:04.government are all together on this one. I support them. But at the same

:49:05. > :49:09.time, in the longer term I think we have to look to the restoration of

:49:10. > :49:13.sensible border controls within the European Union and between Member

:49:14. > :49:28.States and not just breaking down those borders and illuminating them

:49:29. > :49:33.and having an indefensible border. I support the government as well

:49:34. > :49:37.today, there seems to be amazing levels of support which is always

:49:38. > :49:42.quite dangerous but it is very refreshing that the touring National

:49:43. > :49:48.Party are here in force to make sure these matters are properly debated

:49:49. > :49:52.and scrutinised as being part of carried out effectively stopping the

:49:53. > :49:59.reason I support this is because the European Union has made a hash of

:50:00. > :50:06.it, I... Who in glorious understatement said that scheme of

:50:07. > :50:11.European Union was not working as anticipated, I thought that was

:50:12. > :50:15.under par where at the end of the war Japan said the board situation

:50:16. > :50:24.did not develop the Japan's advantage. When you think according

:50:25. > :50:28.to the Daily Express, 184 people out of 160,000 have been relocated, that

:50:29. > :50:36.is a failure even by the terms of the European Union to make union. It

:50:37. > :50:42.was hotly opposed by elected governments, opposed by qualified

:50:43. > :50:47.majority voting, we fortunately have a thing that we used but what

:50:48. > :50:52.underlies this policy is... I disagree with the honourable

:50:53. > :50:59.gentleman who made a part of powerful speech about mankind in

:51:00. > :51:03.general and I accept that. I think the duty to refugees is fundamental,

:51:04. > :51:08.tremendously important and is something the United Kingdom has

:51:09. > :51:12.done for centuries. But the question then is how do you do this well and

:51:13. > :51:19.how you do it effectively and how you preserve life that you actually

:51:20. > :51:21.save people. It seems to me that the European Union has made the

:51:22. > :51:29.situation worse to the refugees themselves. Although the 900,000 who

:51:30. > :51:36.have come by boat to the shores of the European Union over the last

:51:37. > :51:42.year are in 2015, 3621 have either died or gone missing, the terrible

:51:43. > :51:47.events in the Mediterranean in 2014 have gone farther to say that we

:51:48. > :51:52.have not -- cannot allow the Mediterranean and to become a

:51:53. > :52:00.graveyard. We have high hopes that the European... His idea that the

:52:01. > :52:03.people getting into the boundaries of the European Union will get

:52:04. > :52:08.citizenship, but if they cannot get that, there is nothing that will be

:52:09. > :52:13.done for them. That seems to me to encourage people to to take these

:52:14. > :52:18.crazy risks which have led to the tragedies so the policy of the

:52:19. > :52:23.European Union itself is creating dangers for refugees and the

:52:24. > :52:29.refugees who have come are not the halt in the lane but are the fittest

:52:30. > :52:33.and the most able to take the risks involved in trying to cross the sea

:52:34. > :52:39.to come to the European Union. So what we have seen is that 70% of the

:52:40. > :52:46.refugees have come European Union are in fact men, primarily young

:52:47. > :52:50.men. To set up a system that creates incentives that lead to people to

:52:51. > :52:56.take foolish risks to come here in the first place, who are then not

:52:57. > :53:02.the people who are most at risk, the children, elderly, and frail, but

:53:03. > :53:06.they are left behind because if you are fleeing from your risky country,

:53:07. > :53:14.the European union would not let. It is this government that has... I

:53:15. > :53:17.think the 20,000 over five years is absolutely a step in the right

:53:18. > :53:22.direction, but of course we should be doing more. We should think of

:53:23. > :53:29.how many we take from the European Union under the free movement of the

:53:30. > :53:36.people. In the year to March 2015 we took migrants in the European Union,

:53:37. > :53:39.183,000 people who are not in risk of persecution or fear of their

:53:40. > :53:43.lives, they wanted to come here for the most noble reason and honourable

:53:44. > :53:47.reason, they wanted to enter the condition of themselves and their

:53:48. > :53:51.families. They moved halfway across the continent to do that and that is

:53:52. > :53:55.something which I admire hugely. I think it is a conservative thing to

:53:56. > :54:00.do to wish to better yourself and to take that risk, it is the thing

:54:01. > :54:05.entrepreneurs do. But there are economic migrants not refugees.

:54:06. > :54:09.Because we take so maybe we'll from the European Union under the guise

:54:10. > :54:15.of the free movement of people, when it comes to people taking that are

:54:16. > :54:23.genuine risk of life, we take 4000 a year, we take 4000 a year from Syria

:54:24. > :54:27.who may die if they do not escape. We take 182,000 because we believe

:54:28. > :54:33.in this principle of European citizenship and anyone who wants to

:54:34. > :54:38.come here is welcomed. This is not only undesirable and domestic

:54:39. > :54:42.political terms, it is undesirable in moral terms because we are not

:54:43. > :54:46.helping those who are most in need, we are helping those who do nine

:54:47. > :54:51.fact need our help and support. We are helping those who are safe

:54:52. > :54:55.rather than being generous to those who are at risk. It seems to me a

:54:56. > :55:01.fundamental failing of the European Union because instead, of getting

:55:02. > :55:04.aid to the refugees it encourages people to take unwarranted risks and

:55:05. > :55:11.gives benefits to those who are already safe. Why do I stick to the

:55:12. > :55:18.number of 183,000, what is the context of that? It is a limit to

:55:19. > :55:22.the number of people than any country will take in any one year.

:55:23. > :55:29.Not because freedom is a bad thing in itself, but because the society

:55:30. > :55:34.to which people can move cannot operate after a certain level. There

:55:35. > :55:39.are infrastructure, hospitals, but also there is not the capacity of

:55:40. > :55:43.society to absorb very large numbers at one point. They need to be

:55:44. > :55:47.standard, they need to come over a much longer period of time.

:55:48. > :55:52.Therefore if we have these very large numbers coming from countries

:55:53. > :55:56.that are safe, inevitably we have to be mean to the numbers that we

:55:57. > :56:00.ourselves are able to control because they do not benefit from the

:56:01. > :56:02.treaty, they do not benefit from that idea of free movement of people

:56:03. > :56:16.within the European Union. Wrong. And as we in our

:56:17. > :56:23.renegotiation are of people and what we are doing. All we're doing is

:56:24. > :56:27.muddling about with a few benefits. They come for the noble reason, that

:56:28. > :56:31.inspirational pretend that they want to make the lives and allies their

:56:32. > :56:39.families better. That is why they come. With Governor Brown with that,

:56:40. > :56:42.rather than thinking what the real problem is. The real problem is that

:56:43. > :56:49.the skill of the immigration that comes from the EU. It is as the

:56:50. > :56:55.honourable Joe took time out, having a free-for-all to this country does

:56:56. > :57:02.not work for our democracy. Are both us, but did not want to. -- are

:57:03. > :57:08.focus. Even asked to get this back to domestic control. Instead, they

:57:09. > :57:15.do not often to one part, of many parts of things. Won't have any

:57:16. > :57:20.grade that affect. The best argument that we have about the 800,000 of

:57:21. > :57:28.that Mrs. Merkel is welcome in. Why will they not come here? Apparently,

:57:29. > :57:31.our ambassador to Germany has reported to menaces that we do not

:57:32. > :57:36.need to worry that they will compare to cut the Germans are slow at

:57:37. > :57:44.processing citizenship application. Isn't that just lucky? That this low

:57:45. > :57:47.German democracy, when it comes to processing citizenship applications,

:57:48. > :57:52.they might take ten years. So we will not get 100,000 today or

:57:53. > :57:55.tomorrow, but we will give them the election after next. That I'm afraid

:57:56. > :58:03.it's what the government is failing the British people. Is opting out of

:58:04. > :58:12.one thing, but has left the big major problem at the centre of our

:58:13. > :58:16.difficulty. 800,000 people have settled in Germany for ten years,

:58:17. > :58:22.why is it that there are suddenly going to come to the UK at the end

:58:23. > :58:26.of that period with new German citizenship? The amount of

:58:27. > :58:29.immigration that we have seen to this country from the EU shows that

:58:30. > :58:38.we are a great magnet. Everyone seems to want to come to the UK,

:58:39. > :58:43.even to the glories of Scotland. Is extraordinary. I am proud of this. I

:58:44. > :58:49.love the fact that people all bribed world that the best place to live in

:58:50. > :58:52.the UK of Great Britain. Is something we should fill, and give

:58:53. > :58:57.us a glow of pride about the success of our nations of this post

:58:58. > :59:06.conservative government that is good because peace and prosperity. Being

:59:07. > :59:10.a part of the EU, have a lot reported that British citizens can

:59:11. > :59:17.also go and live in Europe, and can go back and forth? I accept that.

:59:18. > :59:23.The bridge and that the British go and live abroad and I welcome abroad

:59:24. > :59:26.is because most of them who go abroad are mostly well-off, most of

:59:27. > :59:32.the tide and take a lot of income is poorer European countries to happen

:59:33. > :59:39.to have a list of more sunshine. I quite understand it is very much the

:59:40. > :59:42.Florida effect that people want to go the southern European countries,

:59:43. > :59:46.but they take wealth with them. Which would be welcomed even if we

:59:47. > :59:50.were not members of the EU. Because poor countries always want to

:59:51. > :59:57.attract rich migrants. Rich countries cannot take an unlimited

:59:58. > :00:01.number of poor migrants and that is why we should focus on the most

:00:02. > :00:10.needed, the real refugees of the one still in Syria. And cut back on

:00:11. > :00:13.hundred 83,000 mark migrants coming from the EU. With the government

:00:14. > :00:21.does that, they will deserve much more support than the support they

:00:22. > :00:26.will get today. -- 183,000. Jennifer has a consequence of the route by

:00:27. > :00:35.which this doctor has come today. That much of the debate has focused

:00:36. > :00:38.on the constitutional aspect of the EU of some of the produce. One

:00:39. > :00:44.affect the debate out of the about how we as a country respond to what

:00:45. > :00:49.others have already described as being one of the remarkable and

:00:50. > :00:58.unprecedented humanitarian crisis to hit hit Europe since the end of the

:00:59. > :01:03.Second World War. A number of members have referred to the timing

:01:04. > :01:09.of the debate tonight. I shared a concern of those who have pointed

:01:10. > :01:14.out that the matter brought before the House at that time will affect,

:01:15. > :01:22.the decision has already been made. Surely, there is a more human aspect

:01:23. > :01:29.of the timing of this. It is that winter is coming. Those who have

:01:30. > :01:37.made the journey to Europe, we've heard reference to the quite

:01:38. > :01:41.remarkable numbers, are not going to suffer real hardship as a

:01:42. > :01:47.consequence of that. -- now. Is also a part that the developers are

:01:48. > :01:54.doing, that people are going to keep coming. We're not going to see the

:01:55. > :02:01.demolition of those making the journey that we have seen in recent

:02:02. > :02:08.years. -- diminish. Is why having so much to the position that the

:02:09. > :02:14.government has taken. As members of the S and T opted to buy the house

:02:15. > :02:21.tonight, -- SNP, the Liberal Democrats will be with them. Like

:02:22. > :02:29.them, but it does the right thing to do, not some reservations I might

:02:30. > :02:34.have about the nature of the ever enriched that are being debated. It

:02:35. > :02:41.is most reflecting that that the share loan, 950,000 people have

:02:42. > :02:47.Friday and Europe. Risking their lives in order to get his. --

:02:48. > :02:54.arrived. They do not come because they are the able once. They come

:02:55. > :02:58.because they are desperate. It is surely a consequence of that

:02:59. > :03:02.desperation that we should have a humanitarian response to what. The

:03:03. > :03:07.response has come from Mrs. Merkel in Germany. It was not because of

:03:08. > :03:15.the people coming, it was a response to these people coming. It is worth

:03:16. > :03:19.considering also what the consequences of the lack of European

:03:20. > :03:26.action has been. And a concerted European action to that challenge.

:03:27. > :03:34.Looked at the figures for those who have had to take refugees on content

:03:35. > :03:41.Europe. In Hungary, it had come from the not highest level of asylum

:03:42. > :03:46.applications to being second, only behind Germany. While the UK has

:03:47. > :03:57.gone from having the seventh highest level, an out set 17th when break in

:03:58. > :04:02.terms of asylum applicants per head. On the Minister opened the case, he

:04:03. > :04:07.did not really spend much time to be said of the Government's free to

:04:08. > :04:17.make. But we know from... That they have spoken of a Poole factor of

:04:18. > :04:18.them. Is a something which has been considered the Lord select

:04:19. > :04:32.committee. Before considering the reasons why

:04:33. > :04:36.they came to that conclusion. They say, we heard arguments that the

:04:37. > :04:40.governments concerned that the proposal is a Poole factor, which

:04:41. > :04:45.would encourage further migration to the EU was not supported by

:04:46. > :04:50.evidence. The markets affected by the present proposal does the login

:04:51. > :04:53.to nationality for which international protection is on

:04:54. > :05:01.average granted and at least 75% of cases. At present, though some

:05:02. > :05:05.Syria, Iraq, the situation in all of these countries is dire. Is clear

:05:06. > :05:10.that the vast majority of those leaving these countries are links of

:05:11. > :05:14.awards or the imminent threat of persecution. This is underlined for

:05:15. > :05:19.instance by the presence of millions of Syrian refugees in camps in

:05:20. > :05:24.Jordan and Lebanon. The government's of argument that relocation of

:05:25. > :05:28.40,000 mu. , who have wished its illegal somehow encourage more to be

:05:29. > :05:38.the countries of origin is therefore unconvincing. The bottom of the

:05:39. > :05:43.expression to my Honorable friend, a somewhat masterful understatement.

:05:44. > :05:51.What are the elements that could produce the safe Routes and the

:05:52. > :05:57.humanitarian precipice? We need to extend the family reunion rules.

:05:58. > :06:03.Need to allow more people family of the UK to come back safely. Consider

:06:04. > :06:07.what actually pays to operate the rules as they exist. It means a

:06:08. > :06:12.surrogate father, granted asylum in the UK would be allowed to bring his

:06:13. > :06:18.wife and younger children. -- Syrian. If he had an elder

:06:19. > :06:21.daughter,, she would not be able to compare and her parents wouldn't

:06:22. > :06:26.would be forced with the choice of leaving her behind or seeking to

:06:27. > :06:33.place mothers to bring her to the UK. In either scenario, she is left

:06:34. > :06:39.at a grave risk. The priority for my friends and myself is to bring 3000

:06:40. > :06:44.unaccompanied refugees minus who have preached Europe. Do something

:06:45. > :06:48.that has been the ongoing dialogue between my party and my party leader

:06:49. > :06:51.and the Prime Minister. If there is an opportunity at the end of this

:06:52. > :06:56.debate, we would want to hear what progress is being made on this. We

:06:57. > :07:02.must as a matter as a emergency extend resettlement schemes. 20,000

:07:03. > :07:08.refugees over five years is a drop in the ocean. We can and should be

:07:09. > :07:14.doing more to take those vulnerable Syrian refugees, what are now facing

:07:15. > :07:21.a bitterly cold winter in the camps in Syria's neighbouring country and

:07:22. > :07:29.other parts of Europe. Canada division, Liberal Democrats will be

:07:30. > :07:33.BPS MP this evening. -- SNP. Was certainly had a number of important

:07:34. > :07:41.ports that somewhat had strayed more widely than the specific measures in

:07:42. > :07:44.relation to relocation. In some ways, we may see some of these

:07:45. > :07:49.issues of rising in the debate to follow. I would underlie to the

:07:50. > :07:52.house that we will continue to work with your opinion partners to

:07:53. > :07:56.develop and implement sustainable and copper has a solution that will

:07:57. > :08:02.allow people to little up to the their home country or in countries

:08:03. > :08:05.of first asylum. And I just do, relocation should not be the

:08:06. > :08:09.response in respect of the. The government has been fairly clear

:08:10. > :08:15.that the UK will not take part in it and urged the EU to concentrate on

:08:16. > :08:21.actions will cause is, to control illegal migration and tackle abuse,

:08:22. > :08:25.not just those that... We have also been very clear that despite

:08:26. > :08:28.weaknesses in the Dublin arrangement, which we agreed and Eve

:08:29. > :08:32.were formed, is underlined principles remain sound with member

:08:33. > :08:38.states taking full responsibility for the offence functioning of the

:08:39. > :08:41.own border and asylum system. In our discussions with the EU, we have

:08:42. > :08:48.been measured and constructed while promoting and defending them eat --

:08:49. > :08:52.UK interest. Our approach was busted in these Post humanitarians and on

:08:53. > :08:56.the addition of solidarity, I was undermine the support that this

:08:57. > :09:00.country has given to the EU asylum support of this to provide that

:09:01. > :09:07.five-month support to your poll, are such a rescue operation, our defence

:09:08. > :09:13.plants. To our approach in relation to the settlement and as well as the

:09:14. > :09:16.assistance which has been provided. Under all that work, that measures

:09:17. > :09:19.should not increase the factors that undermine the principle that title

:09:20. > :09:23.should be shot in the first safe country and therefore, I urge the

:09:24. > :09:37.House to support the government motion. Question is as on the order

:09:38. > :11:05.paper. On the contrary. Division, clear the lobby!

:11:06. > :17:41.Order! . Tellis of the ayes. -- Tellis. To look for the no.

:17:42. > :20:36.Order! Order! The ayes to be right, 274. The noes to the left, 52. The

:20:37. > :20:48.ayes to the bright, 274. The noes to the left, 52. The ayes have it! The

:20:49. > :20:56.ayes have it! Unlock! We now come to motion number three. On your opinion

:20:57. > :21:00.agenda on migrations. I have to inform the House that Mr Speaker has

:21:01. > :21:11.not selected the amendment in the name of Douglas Carswell. Ministered

:21:12. > :21:15.to move the motion. The debate today offers no important opportunity to

:21:16. > :21:22.look at the range of measures that are being proposed the situation.

:21:23. > :21:28.The first of the documents listed on the motion this evening of European

:21:29. > :21:32.agenda was published on the 15th of May. Is thought to provide a

:21:33. > :21:36.blueprint to adjust the situation by outlining an overview of the various

:21:37. > :21:39.measures available to the EU. Is fair to say that subsequent

:21:40. > :21:42.documents listed for the most part provide the detail of that

:21:43. > :21:46.blueprint. The government supports many aspects of the agenda, we

:21:47. > :21:50.agreed there should be good or effective joint action of returns

:21:51. > :22:01.and against people smugglers. He favours further cooperation

:22:02. > :22:05.with the countries as well as more effective management to the external

:22:06. > :22:07.border. We have continued to press our European partners on these

:22:08. > :22:08.parts, both before and since the publication of the commissions

:22:09. > :22:11.communication. Who've also welcomed the proposals against smugglers. The

:22:12. > :22:17.back of again profiting from the crisis of people smuggling including

:22:18. > :22:23.hats the process with international partners. We support the strategic

:22:24. > :22:33.priorities outlined. I wonder if he agrees with me that it method well

:22:34. > :22:37.-- does not sit well with Miss Margot, should be criticising the

:22:38. > :22:42.Kerry, who have done their to implement the work of reference that

:22:43. > :22:47.they were required to do to secure their border, which is the European

:22:48. > :22:53.border. I wonder if the has had opportunity to speak to Mrs. Merkel

:22:54. > :23:00.to say that she should be supporting the Hungarians, not attacking them.

:23:01. > :23:04.As he knows, we are not part of shaking, therefore the operation of

:23:05. > :23:10.respect to those internal arrangements -- Schengen. As we

:23:11. > :23:12.debate in the previous debate, I think what happens on the external

:23:13. > :23:18.border is important and why we have sought to support context and a

:23:19. > :23:22.number of its activities given the impact that potentially has on us in

:23:23. > :23:29.the UK. Is also in many respects looking at that approach off because

:23:30. > :23:33.of the European border, how the subsequent Council decision on the

:23:34. > :23:37.EU military operation in the sub Mediterranean has been a positive

:23:38. > :23:41.step and join efforts to break the business model of people smugglers.

:23:42. > :23:48.One which is at the UK pop metal support. On the 7th of October, it

:23:49. > :23:51.moved interface to. It was renamed... The purpose of operations

:23:52. > :23:56.of various attack of the human smugglers and traffickers disrupting

:23:57. > :24:00.this that this model was traced to carry explicitly and a lost another.

:24:01. > :24:07.Who must not forget operation is on one part of the governments's plan.

:24:08. > :24:11.Dismay, the UK has had over 9000 miles of the Mediterranean. The last

:24:12. > :24:18.document listed, at been broadly welcomed by political leaders across

:24:19. > :24:20.the EU and was subject of a EU Turkey summit on the 29th of

:24:21. > :24:25.November. The government shares the view that plan of the sky is needed

:24:26. > :24:29.to ease the burden on Turkey while providing uncontrolled migrations to

:24:30. > :24:34.the EU. Turkey is a key relationship partner for the EU and as a country

:24:35. > :24:37.would the UK has had close cooperation for some time. Also

:24:38. > :24:50.played a pivotal role in the migration crisis. I get why. -- I

:24:51. > :24:53.get why. The sequences can say that there might be summed this genuine

:24:54. > :24:57.tea and oppression of Turkey in this context given the fact that there

:24:58. > :24:58.are so many problems that we have seen recently have come to Turkey

:24:59. > :25:09.was . I think it is important we look at

:25:10. > :25:13.the action plans to provide, an overarching response to the

:25:14. > :25:16.challenges that we see. At about Turkey as an active partner. That

:25:17. > :25:23.means working within Turkey and alongside them. It is important to

:25:24. > :25:26.recognise and support Turkey's efforts and hosting over to move

:25:27. > :25:35.against Syria and refugees. Up it is important that we continue to retain

:25:36. > :25:37.that focus. -- 2 million refugees. Part of an overarching package to

:25:38. > :25:44.insist that the efforts that are taking place in Turkey. I do

:25:45. > :25:49.underline the important measures that the Prime Minister had doubts

:25:50. > :25:53.as part of our responsibilities. That the UK will reset the 20,000 of

:25:54. > :25:57.the most vulnerable considering refugees over the next five years. I

:25:58. > :26:02.can say for the house that we remain on track to resettle 1000 before

:26:03. > :26:06.Christmas, building on a previous game. It is neither desirable to

:26:07. > :26:12.meet the needs of all those internally within the UK,... That is

:26:13. > :26:16.why the government place such an emphasis on supporting protection

:26:17. > :26:26.within refugee breaches of origin. We have committed another 100

:26:27. > :26:29.million pounds funding. The governments consistent focus has

:26:30. > :26:32.been a on a comprehensive and sustainable solution to the refugee

:26:33. > :26:37.crisis. The Prime Minister continued to emphasise the need for the UK to

:26:38. > :26:41.do with the crisis, not just response to its consequences. Is

:26:42. > :26:44.terrific, that means working with international communities to bring

:26:45. > :26:49.an end to the conflict there into the feed Daesh. The recent

:26:50. > :26:55.development of a... Following talks with a positive addition. -- the

:26:56. > :26:58.feed Daesh. This could be an important step towards a solution

:26:59. > :27:02.history and therefore part of the long-term solution to the migration

:27:03. > :27:06.crisis. In Libya, that means helping to form a government of national

:27:07. > :27:11.Accord which can regain control of Libya's borders and tackling the

:27:12. > :27:14.gags. And Sean can find response to Olivia, let the work demonstrating

:27:15. > :27:21.only yesterday and from is imperative to support... To move to

:27:22. > :27:25.improve security. As I've said, will target them is working toward a

:27:26. > :27:29.comprehensive board of management, ensuring humanitarian responses to

:27:30. > :27:36.those regions, while also disrupting the organised criminal networks to

:27:37. > :27:41.profit from the plight of other. Constantly changing. The government

:27:42. > :27:46.that he's a boss on all development so we can reshape our engagement and

:27:47. > :27:51.show our expertise in a targeted way. To protect the UK by Vanessa

:27:52. > :27:58.measures, assist our partners, and assure our efforts have the greatest

:27:59. > :28:00.impact. Who remain committed to cooperation with our European

:28:01. > :28:02.partners and pursuit of this agenda and that is what the motion tonight

:28:03. > :28:16.on defence. -- underpants. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. This

:28:17. > :28:23.motion covers a number of important documents, including the documenting

:28:24. > :28:29.European agenda on migration and of course the EU action plan against

:28:30. > :28:33.migrant smuggling. The scale of the documents is broad and their

:28:34. > :28:38.ambition is commendable. The European agenda on migration for

:28:39. > :28:45.example, it aims to set out a fair and robust migration policy. The

:28:46. > :28:49.action plan includes wide steps on things such as people smuggling,

:28:50. > :28:54.recovering assets, data gathering, and sharing information for the use

:28:55. > :29:02.of military assets. We support these aims and the fact that the motion

:29:03. > :29:09.calls for a coherent sustainable approach for migration or migratory

:29:10. > :29:15.pressures. We support the efforts of our Royal Navy and our forces who

:29:16. > :29:20.have rescued over 5577 migrants from Mediterranean so far. If the

:29:21. > :29:26.ministers able to update us on that figure I would appreciate that. The

:29:27. > :29:32.question is how the government is helping to deliver this approach and

:29:33. > :29:37.if DU as a whole are achieving it. -- eat you.

:29:38. > :29:44.The painful reality on the ground that we have seen in many parts of

:29:45. > :29:49.the EU, it is clear that the coherent and sustainable approach is

:29:50. > :29:53.simply not in place. These documents attempt to find an approach which

:29:54. > :29:58.ensures that Europe becomes a safe haven for those fleeing atrocities

:29:59. > :30:04.and persecution but also secure its borders and create conditions for

:30:05. > :30:07.economic prosperity. In order for there to be a coherent and

:30:08. > :30:11.sustainable solution to the migrant crisis, we must crack down on those

:30:12. > :30:19.who seek to take advantage of people in their time of need ruthless

:30:20. > :30:21.criminal networks organised and journeys of large numbers of

:30:22. > :30:27.migrants desperate to reach the EU. They make substantial gains by

:30:28. > :30:30.putting migrant lives at risk, often squeezing hundreds of migrants and

:30:31. > :30:42.two small boats including small inflatable boats, schools of

:30:43. > :30:48.migrants... Smugglers treat migrants as... Which they often traffic along

:30:49. > :30:55.the same roots. That is why we support the current operations aimed

:30:56. > :30:58.at preventing smuggling into the EU. Taking these operations provides the

:30:59. > :31:04.opportunity to make an impact on the crisis. It is the government

:31:05. > :31:10.acknowledges, action must also be taken to address the root causes of

:31:11. > :31:14.this crisis. The root causes of the migration lie in... Which the

:31:15. > :31:20.international community has been trying to address for many years,

:31:21. > :31:25.Civil War, persecution, poverty and climate change all feed into

:31:26. > :31:30.migration. That is why the UK must be involved in re-invigorating to

:31:31. > :31:38.the manic efforts to bring peace and stability to the people of Syria

:31:39. > :31:43.were people originate. -- and assisting development of the

:31:44. > :31:46.countries in question. Against that background, I have a number of

:31:47. > :31:52.questions which I would like to minister to clarify. First, it is

:31:53. > :31:55.important that there is ongoing parliamentary scrutiny of UK

:31:56. > :32:02.involvement in trafficking operations. With minister commit in

:32:03. > :32:06.informing the House prior to any development on this issue,

:32:07. > :32:11.particular with any movement of phase two to phase three of this.

:32:12. > :32:16.There's also some contradiction regarding the current state

:32:17. > :32:20.operation. The initial plan stated that phase three involved the

:32:21. > :32:23.disposing of vehicles and vessels used for trafficking. But the

:32:24. > :32:29.government has said that 40 migrant boats have already been disposed of

:32:30. > :32:31.as part of phase two. Can the Minister explain this to the House

:32:32. > :32:40.and in particular whether the phases have now changed? Thirdly, as well

:32:41. > :32:43.as disrupting and getting rid of vessels used for trafficking, it is

:32:44. > :32:47.important that people smugglers are brought to justice for stop can

:32:48. > :32:52.administer provide details on what the government is doing on this

:32:53. > :33:02.front and any details on the prosecution of any of those already

:33:03. > :33:08.apprehended? The question of the European agenda on migration and

:33:09. > :33:13.action plan is another motion which we had to urge the government to

:33:14. > :33:17.split off from the previous one because although there are some

:33:18. > :33:23.differences, in practice they are also some important similarities as

:33:24. > :33:31.the Minister indicates when he first got up to speak. There are a number

:33:32. > :33:36.of issues of which are of great concern, which in particular I would

:33:37. > :33:41.remind the Minister that he said in his expansion memorandum on

:33:42. > :33:47.communications that that was sometime ago, although I will not go

:33:48. > :33:51.through again. The immigration minister, that is right honourable

:33:52. > :34:03.gentleman said that the commission has failed and I quote ... And from

:34:04. > :34:07.other migratory pressures and I'm sure the Minister will understand my

:34:08. > :34:10.asking of the question which is pretty obvious, what are the correct

:34:11. > :34:18.policies if this is the wrong one? Also the commission considers that

:34:19. > :34:21.the asylum system in the European Union and the operation of the

:34:22. > :34:28.government rules is regarded as being fundamentally unfair. Another

:34:29. > :34:31.question is that is the government system broken and given the

:34:32. > :34:37.behaviour of the Chancellor of Germany, it would appeared to be

:34:38. > :34:40.that it is broken or can it be repaired and so does the government

:34:41. > :34:45.wants to see it repaired and what changes will be government seek when

:34:46. > :34:50.the rules are reviewed next year? The government has already made

:34:51. > :34:53.clear it favours a policy of resettlement, and I have to say I

:34:54. > :34:58.finally supported the government on that rather than relocation. These

:34:59. > :35:02.words get used rally the Michael rather freely but I would like to

:35:03. > :35:08.make the point that resettlement is quite different from relocation.

:35:09. > :35:14.Relocation implies the individual is Artie in the EU who applied for

:35:15. > :35:19.asylum and are presumed on the basis of their nationality to be very

:35:20. > :35:26.likely to qualify for international protection. Resettlement on the

:35:27. > :35:31.other hand applies to those outside the EU who are admitted from their

:35:32. > :35:39.country of origin or from conflict areas. Member States have

:35:40. > :35:49.collectively agreed to resettle 22,500 individuals from outside the

:35:50. > :35:52.EU in 2015. On the basis that they are in need of international

:35:53. > :35:58.protection and I have to say, although that is an assertion, there

:35:59. > :36:03.are serious? That have to be made regrettably about the nature of some

:36:04. > :36:10.of the people that are in need of national protection. Many, no doubt

:36:11. > :36:18.justified protection, but when and when I move on to the question of

:36:19. > :36:22.the European convention, the United Nations convention, the Geneva

:36:23. > :36:29.Convention, and the width of the definition that it is applied and my

:36:30. > :36:34.that what we really need is to have a reevaluation of the definitions of

:36:35. > :36:39.what is a refugee, redefinition of what is a migrant, and the

:36:40. > :36:43.redefinition of an asylum seeker. I have to say that this meeting that I

:36:44. > :36:50.referred to in the previous debate which took place in Rome only on

:36:51. > :36:57.Friday this week, last week, where all of the chairman of the relevant

:36:58. > :37:03.select committees were present, there was an fact a endorsement of

:37:04. > :37:08.my proposal which I am now putting forward an international EU meetings

:37:09. > :37:13.over the last four months calling for a review of these definitions.

:37:14. > :37:21.And because they have been expanded from even 1951 and now covered so

:37:22. > :37:28.many different and types of people it is extremely difficult to know

:37:29. > :37:35.whether on a reasonable basis to relocate them. We have already heard

:37:36. > :37:41.the very few, I think it is run the hundred that have already been

:37:42. > :37:47.relocated and it is this, the bottom line. The problem as I will come to

:37:48. > :37:52.it in the moment, the fundamental rights which are applied in this

:37:53. > :38:00.instance and also for the purposes of Human Rights Act of 1998 and the

:38:01. > :38:03.European convention on human rights. I know people feel strongly about

:38:04. > :38:07.this on both sides of the equation and we agreed that we would repeal

:38:08. > :38:13.the human acts of -- Human Rights Act of 1998 but the depth of the

:38:14. > :38:19.analysis on the charter in my judgement needs to be greatly

:38:20. > :38:25.improved because what is happening is that people who are claiming

:38:26. > :38:31.asylum can fall back on the is international conventions in a way

:38:32. > :38:37.that actually creates virtually a blockage through the legal system to

:38:38. > :38:48.the jurisdiction, and the jurors prudence of the human rights was

:38:49. > :38:55.such an. And there is an increasing statistical and legal problem, which

:38:56. > :38:58.is that more and more prop like people are claiming asylum and have

:38:59. > :39:02.been granted it. I am not saying there cases where it is not

:39:03. > :39:11.justified, but I am also saying that the definitions are so wide that it

:39:12. > :39:23.is becoming a difficult problem and not in fact going to lead to any

:39:24. > :39:24.serious policy in deportations. The government has underlined the

:39:25. > :39:32.importance of breaking the economic more like model which encourages

:39:33. > :39:37.people to put others in harms way at sea and that can be commended. There

:39:38. > :39:48.are certainly advantages to the effectiveness of the... Which is

:39:49. > :39:58.quite well supported by the United Kingdom. The trouble is that with

:39:59. > :40:04.these traffickers and smugglers, the problems exceed the capacity to be

:40:05. > :40:10.able to deal with them. I asked the Minister how effective he believes

:40:11. > :40:14.operations have been because of the absence of internationally

:40:15. > :40:25.recognised government in Libya. I would doubt heard to the question of

:40:26. > :40:33.the extent to which we have entered into a sensible arrangement with

:40:34. > :40:36.Turkey. Turkey and the EU have signed a deal to get the fast-track

:40:37. > :40:43.visa privileges in return for ?3 billion worth of aid and I believe

:40:44. > :40:48.the prospect of continuing financial support. And also the prospects of

:40:49. > :40:53.revitalizing EU membership and return for a commitment to a

:40:54. > :40:59.migration action plan, I have to say, I am profoundly cynical about

:41:00. > :41:06.this arrangement. I think it is based on giving money almost in the

:41:07. > :41:17.nature of a bribe to Turkey to provide them with financial support.

:41:18. > :41:20.From what I have been hearing in for meeting I have attended recently,

:41:21. > :41:28.the authorities and Turkey have been by no means diligent in enforcing

:41:29. > :41:33.the arrangements that they have crudely put into place. The fact

:41:34. > :41:42.that there are so many people who are making their way through the

:41:43. > :41:47.continent of Europe, north towards Germany, with an enormous amount of

:41:48. > :41:51.disruption does a great deal toward the inefficiency that Turkey has

:41:52. > :41:57.been behaving with recently. In addition to which, without getting

:41:58. > :42:01.into the question of form policy and defence implications, the reality is

:42:02. > :42:08.that Turkey has been at severe overheads with Russia. That is of

:42:09. > :42:16.severe complication in relation to concerted action in Syria. Also,

:42:17. > :42:22.Turkey is profoundly committed to dealing with as they see it, the

:42:23. > :42:26.Kurds, which is probably more important to them than anything else

:42:27. > :42:37.in this context and that is also an obstacle to form policy in this

:42:38. > :42:43.situation. Just exactly how the Turkey deal will operate, that is

:42:44. > :42:51.something that I am profoundly cynical about. They do actually, in

:42:52. > :43:01.return for these fast-track visa programmes and their desired to come

:43:02. > :43:07.to the European Union has, they have 78 million people in Turkey already,

:43:08. > :43:17.and that is increasing something at the rate of one million and 18

:43:18. > :43:24.months, so as the population expands the Turkish engagement with the

:43:25. > :43:31.European Union and its fact that they are coming over here is going

:43:32. > :43:36.to increase exponentially. I hope my friend will acknowledge that the

:43:37. > :43:39.discussion about possible visa deliberation involved the Schengen

:43:40. > :43:45.countries, they do not involve those Member States that are not part of

:43:46. > :43:49.Shengen. The Minister was not here when I spent a little bit of time

:43:50. > :43:54.talking about the Schengen asset to this in the previous debate because

:43:55. > :44:02.I believe the proposals which are currently being put forward, which

:44:03. > :44:10.increases the range of the border issue to external borders and

:44:11. > :44:16.including Shengen is going to burst. It is not going to work. There is

:44:17. > :44:23.not the money to pay for, the failure rate in relation to Frontex

:44:24. > :44:29.is itself evidence. I believe it would not work in future and I think

:44:30. > :44:33.the fact that we are not a member of it is not going to alter the

:44:34. > :44:40.pressures that will come as a result of people entering into the Schengen

:44:41. > :44:47.area and then having inquired passports, in relation to European

:44:48. > :44:52.citizenship, then making their way up through the whole of the European

:44:53. > :44:58.Union and causing pressures of the kind that we witnessed recently. I

:44:59. > :45:07.accept that they, Schengen is not at the moment part of the United

:45:08. > :45:12.Kingdom's problems but I believe the pressures that are now beginning to

:45:13. > :45:18.grow our increasing necessity for us in the European Union because

:45:19. > :45:21.Schengen is becoming a potent force, what had been hearing from other

:45:22. > :45:26.Member States towards a greater degree of emphasis on political

:45:27. > :45:31.union. It is a most are marketable state of affairs and the Minister

:45:32. > :45:37.was not here earlier and I see the Minister of state, puzzling over

:45:38. > :45:42.what I am saying, but I am saying and tactically that the Schengen

:45:43. > :45:52.area is currently, not only under review, but is already completely

:45:53. > :45:56.broken by countries. Yet there is an enormous desire to make it more

:45:57. > :45:59.effective and as it does so, so I believe the pressures from political

:46:00. > :46:09.union within that area will tend to increase. Now I want to turn to the

:46:10. > :46:13.question of this 1951 intervention on fundamental rights. But before I

:46:14. > :46:18.do so, I want to have an answer from the Minister, which I put to him

:46:19. > :46:23.before, as to how much, if at all the United Kingdom is allowed to

:46:24. > :46:27.contribute to the EU border force. If the Minister would be kind enough

:46:28. > :46:31.to remember I asked him that before. Is it true that contributing 150

:46:32. > :46:37.million, it is not apparently but I'm glad to hear him say it. Time

:46:38. > :46:41.did not allow me to respond formally to his question in last debate but

:46:42. > :46:48.we do not contributing to the funding of Frontex. The organisation

:46:49. > :46:54.is... We're not part of Schengen arrangements will stop we do provide

:46:55. > :46:59.operational support through vessels, expertise, debriefing, but that is

:47:00. > :47:03.the nature of our support. I heard much the same back in the days of

:47:04. > :47:06.the treaty, we were told we would not have complete federalism, I

:47:07. > :47:11.sincerely believe that what the Minister just said is what he

:47:12. > :47:16.believes will happen, I trust him to say exactly what is going on and I

:47:17. > :47:21.will take his word. But the pressures are there. That is all I

:47:22. > :47:24.am saying. The honourable Tubman will no doubt take great interest in

:47:25. > :47:28.the announcements we are expecting to make tomorrow in relation to the

:47:29. > :47:31.EU border force and we are looking at those, we will look at those

:47:32. > :47:37.proposals very closely. We do not take part in those because we are

:47:38. > :47:39.not part of that part of the Schengen arrangements. We are

:47:40. > :47:45.ensuring that our national interests are protected and we will scrutinize

:47:46. > :47:50.those carefully. I am grateful to you for those remarks. In relation

:47:51. > :47:58.to the refugees, this has been incorporated into EU law by virtue

:47:59. > :48:02.of the fundamental rights. Therefore, the European quarter

:48:03. > :48:10.justice which implemented European policy is interpreted Q Baek my

:48:11. > :48:16.passages of people claiming asylum... If they reach EU

:48:17. > :48:23.territory. And the nuns were formal prohibition on removal from an

:48:24. > :48:26.unsafe state from Article three of the convention. So there is

:48:27. > :48:30.interaction between the 1951 convention and the charter for

:48:31. > :48:36.fundamental rights. As the Minister again will know too well, the

:48:37. > :48:40.scrutiny committee in the last Parliament, having viewed the

:48:41. > :48:47.problem of fundamental rights, came to the conclusion that we had to

:48:48. > :48:51.override it and indeed, without going back into that debate too

:48:52. > :48:57.much, I simply remind the Minister that the previous Labour government

:48:58. > :49:04.itself was completely against the incorporation of the fundamental

:49:05. > :49:12.rights into the Lisbon Treaty. Furthermore, the noble lord Lord

:49:13. > :49:19.Goldsmith who was the envoy for Prime Minister Tony Blair in seeking

:49:20. > :49:24.to have a protocol, in fact achieving a protocol, which would

:49:25. > :49:28.have excluded the chancellor of fundamental rights on the face of it

:49:29. > :49:33.from the UK legislation. We argued this in the scrutiny committee at

:49:34. > :49:40.the time and I warned and said other members of the committee that this

:49:41. > :49:45.would not stick. Sure enough, as usual, I said regrettably our

:49:46. > :49:50.productions were right. European Court within the scope of European

:49:51. > :50:00.law is now applying the European, the charter of fundamental rights.

:50:01. > :50:02.This is part of the problem. This incorporates unconventional refugees

:50:03. > :50:07.in the definitions that go along with it. I said this earlier but the

:50:08. > :50:11.definitions need to be reviewed. They cannot be reviewed if they are

:50:12. > :50:17.part of the charter which is in itself a part of the European core

:50:18. > :50:24.justice. The whole of this issue is caught up in the issues, that is

:50:25. > :50:30.what I am driving at. That is causing Anna Norma's problem in

:50:31. > :50:36.interpretation, and with the ability to deal with this migration policy.

:50:37. > :50:41.A lot of this stuff, I freely admit this, it is a bit complicated. I

:50:42. > :50:45.have to say that unfortunately what people are failing to understand

:50:46. > :50:49.over the years is when these meetings take place in the European

:50:50. > :50:53.Council, when they take place in the Council of ministers, they are not

:50:54. > :50:56.just sitting around having a discussion as the Cabinet might do

:50:57. > :51:00.in relation to domestic legislation in deciding whether they want to

:51:01. > :51:04.tweak education policy or whether they want to make a change in

:51:05. > :51:09.transport policy. What they are doing when they make decisions is

:51:10. > :51:15.locking in the United Kingdom into legal Agut die like obligations

:51:16. > :51:22.which can only be removed by the unity of other Member States. This

:51:23. > :51:26.is a political system and this entire migration issue in this issue

:51:27. > :51:32.of refugees as compared to migrants as otherwise, I had no less sympathy

:51:33. > :51:38.for genuine refugees than anybody else, I'd dealt a great deal of time

:51:39. > :51:42.dealing with these issues in the House. Dealing people in refugees

:51:43. > :51:49.situations. This is not the same thing, this is not simply dealing

:51:50. > :51:54.with policies which you can rearrange, adjust, this is driving

:51:55. > :52:00.us into a deeper hole and I think that is something we need to say in

:52:01. > :52:07.this debate. Behold question of charter of fundamental rights and

:52:08. > :52:11.human rights is locked into this and that is a serious problem, including

:52:12. > :52:15.the definition of refugees. Also dealing with asylum seekers and I am

:52:16. > :52:18.afraid to say that is why one of the reasons why so few of them in my

:52:19. > :52:24.opinion are being dealt with appropriately. However, the UK is

:52:25. > :52:29.not part of Schengen as the Minister and I and all of us know too well,

:52:30. > :52:38.but we are part of the regulation. EU states and other United Nations

:52:39. > :52:42.signature is our obliged to allow... If a migrant reaches a new

:52:43. > :52:47.territory. However, the United Nations convention is not specific

:52:48. > :52:53.on how the obligations need to be disposed and arguably to claim

:52:54. > :52:56.asylum, under the convention, a rep Yuji needs to arrive directly from a

:52:57. > :53:04.state from which they are playing. -- refugee. This means that the

:53:05. > :53:09.applicant may have not been processed on the roof. Now we are

:53:10. > :53:17.dealing with 900,000 people. -- route. Frontier states under

:53:18. > :53:24.convention and charter of fundamental rights are not, I repeat

:53:25. > :53:30.not allowed to block those with those genuinely allowed to seek

:53:31. > :53:36.asylum from entering. Setting up a border defence as I said earlier,

:53:37. > :53:40.there's more problem now than in the Cold War, setting up these order

:53:41. > :53:48.defenses is extremely uncertain in law. The normal reform and

:53:49. > :53:52.prohibition of United Nations on removal than asylum seeker in an

:53:53. > :53:58.unsafe state can also be interpreted in different ways so as not to

:53:59. > :54:03.exclude their removal to a safe third, or save recent transit state.

:54:04. > :54:06.I want to get this on the record, because it is important that the

:54:07. > :54:12.government looks at all of this carefully when they get the

:54:13. > :54:16.opportunity to do so. As I said, the charter of fundamental rights is

:54:17. > :54:22.subject to European quarter justice whereas the United Nations

:54:23. > :54:27.convention is only a convention. So basically, we have a very

:54:28. > :54:32.complicated means situation which I believe in generating even more

:54:33. > :54:37.problems for the European Union and I think that in this context, will I

:54:38. > :54:41.accept entirely that this motion is merely a take note. Many of the

:54:42. > :54:46.things that I had said not being incorporated into the motion because

:54:47. > :54:50.and I do think and I say this with great respect to the Minister and to

:54:51. > :54:57.the Minister from Europe, some of these issues which are difficult our

:54:58. > :55:03.intractable but nonetheless do lead to the Schengen area have a

:55:04. > :55:08.continuing an ongoing affect on the kingdom as well because so long as

:55:09. > :55:12.we remain part of this European Union, which I know the Minister

:55:13. > :55:16.will accept, I do not think we should anymore, it does not alter

:55:17. > :55:21.the fact that we are affected by these things and this migrant issue

:55:22. > :55:28.with all the tragedies it involves, but also a great deal of the

:55:29. > :55:35.problems that come from fake passports and from the problem of

:55:36. > :55:39.jihadists and the rest, from the tragedies of those drowning in the

:55:40. > :55:44.Mediterranean make the situation even worse. I just simply say to the

:55:45. > :55:46.Minister, do not think I am asking to reply to all these points this

:55:47. > :55:50.evening because I am sure he would not have the chance to do so, but

:55:51. > :55:52.would you please take note of the fact that there are other arguments

:55:53. > :56:09.than those in the motion. I wanted to repeat some comments I

:56:10. > :56:14.have made on the previous debate. I will post this one into a vote this

:56:15. > :56:25.evening. There are two parts of the government's motion which will give

:56:26. > :56:29.us significant concern. I am disappointed that we are talking

:56:30. > :56:34.about a refugee crisis, and yet everything in the papers talk about

:56:35. > :56:39.migrants. This is not a migrant crisis, this is a crisis of refugees

:56:40. > :56:43.fleeing for their lives. If he could get that into the mindset not only

:56:44. > :56:52.of government here, but governments across Europe, we might start to

:56:53. > :56:58.address this emergency. We fully support the fact that we need to

:56:59. > :57:03.have coordinated and firm action against the criminals who are

:57:04. > :57:11.exploiting desperate people, people who are smuggling people. As the

:57:12. > :57:14.laws say, people trafficking and people smuggling are not the same

:57:15. > :57:22.thing. They are different in the eyes of the law. They are hard to

:57:23. > :57:30.tell apart in practice, but very different issues that he needs to be

:57:31. > :57:32.addressed in different ways. The House of Lords subcommittee has

:57:33. > :57:38.recommended to the European commission that in certain

:57:39. > :57:41.directives dealing with people smuggling and trafficking, the House

:57:42. > :57:48.has suggested that it should make a distinction. Smuggling is carried

:57:49. > :57:55.out because of humanitarian motives, but if it is clear that that is not

:57:56. > :58:02.done for criminal purposes or financial gain, but to a misguided

:58:03. > :58:09.belief that it is Unitarian. I wouldn't think that they are

:58:10. > :58:14.international criminals. I am interested to know about the

:58:15. > :58:19.government's attitude toward that. The motion about tackling the causes

:58:20. > :58:25.of migration, and I am interested to hear what the Minister thinks of the

:58:26. > :58:32.causes of 100,000 refugees who arrived in Greece over the last year

:58:33. > :58:36.or so, or the people, the 400,000 people in refugee camps in the

:58:37. > :58:40.Mediterranean coast. Unless they can prove to us that there were 4

:58:41. > :58:45.million people last year ended the year before and every year over the

:58:46. > :58:57.last ten years, the conclusion is that the root cause of this crisis

:58:58. > :59:07.is war and violence and persecution. Would he agree that the member who

:59:08. > :59:15.describes the family who tried to leave the situation, it really

:59:16. > :59:22.doesn't understand the situation, and it speaks to the issue you are

:59:23. > :59:30.talking about earlier? I would fully agree. I wanted to save more in

:59:31. > :59:36.response to the member, but I will respond to him now. What I will say

:59:37. > :59:42.is that there may be people taking risks that could be described as

:59:43. > :59:46.foolish or desperate. These people are not stupid, some are highly

:59:47. > :59:55.educated and highly skilled. The reason they are taking risks and

:59:56. > :00:06.risking their children's lives, is because they felt left behind in

:00:07. > :00:12.Syria. Would he agree that part of the problem is that there aren't no

:00:13. > :00:17.means of safe passage across land once Borders have been closed, so

:00:18. > :00:26.that they have to go by sea? I absolutely agree. One of the things

:00:27. > :00:32.that ties people, leads them into the hands of the criminals, is if

:00:33. > :00:37.they don't have a safe way of getting out, it is the only way of

:00:38. > :00:44.getting out is to risk their lives with the smugglers. The evidence has

:00:45. > :00:50.all too often washed up on the beaches of Europe and North Africa.

:00:51. > :00:55.I'm interested to see if the Minister will accept that the root

:00:56. > :01:01.cause of this emergency is not the benefit system, or the wonderful

:01:02. > :01:07.economic growth, it is a desperate strategy that is unfolding

:01:08. > :01:12.particularly in Syria. That has got to be addressed once and for all if

:01:13. > :01:24.we want this emergency results in longer terms. The ?3 billion that is

:01:25. > :01:27.going -- I am concerned to know about the transparency and

:01:28. > :01:33.accountability attached to that. What scrutiny will be used for that?

:01:34. > :01:35.I'm not as enthusiastic about the Turkish government as some on the

:01:36. > :01:42.bench seemed to be. I cannot forget what the Turkish military are doing,

:01:43. > :01:56.and until they stopped doing that, we have to know how far the

:01:57. > :02:01.government will go. By the chair of the scrutiny committee, the

:02:02. > :02:10.Minister, among other things was responding to questions about

:02:11. > :02:18.specific calls for assistance. His answer was that he" I believe more

:02:19. > :02:22.Member States can be doing more for the various funding strands in the

:02:23. > :02:40.UK contributions." The story has various versions.

:02:41. > :02:44.There was an important job that had to be done, and everyone agreed that

:02:45. > :02:52.it had to be done. Nobody actually did it. We all agree that we should

:02:53. > :02:59.do a lot more, but we cannot agree on what. The scrutiny committee

:03:00. > :03:06.might ask him to clarify on his comments. Could a specific Member

:03:07. > :03:17.States do more, and what is realistically possible, and what has

:03:18. > :03:24.been done already? One part of the government's motion that gives me

:03:25. > :03:29.concern is the talk about making a link between rescue at sea and

:03:30. > :03:39.permanent resettlement in the European union. I did not realise

:03:40. > :03:46.that there was it automatic link. Claiming asylum, we have to assess

:03:47. > :03:57.whether they are here is an asylum seeker to have a right to live your?

:03:58. > :04:03.I wonder if what we see here is the emergency situation in Syria will

:04:04. > :04:07.continue for years and years. To all intents and purposes, people have,

:04:08. > :04:13.because they want a safe haven. I will accept that it will be years,

:04:14. > :04:15.possibly decades until Syria can take them back. I want further

:04:16. > :04:23.clarification on that from the Minister. I hope I don't have to

:04:24. > :04:27.wait too long for the answer for that. The chair of the scrutiny

:04:28. > :04:34.committee has had answers in the past. At one point we considered

:04:35. > :04:48.posting this to a vote because of a comment the. I think that it is an

:04:49. > :04:51.accurate, and they think that it creates and continues to create an

:04:52. > :04:58.impression that a significant number of these 4 million Syrians are

:04:59. > :05:03.trying to come here because they want to live in the UK. They are not

:05:04. > :05:12.start to get out of Syria because they don't want to die. This is a

:05:13. > :05:17.crisis that is fundamentally caused by war and violence and civil

:05:18. > :05:26.unrest. It is not caused by a desire to live in the United Kingdom. In

:05:27. > :05:31.noting these documents, and approving this text, we are invited

:05:32. > :05:36.to give our approval. Our approval to a deal between the European Union

:05:37. > :05:41.and Turkey. A deal negotiated and signed without our input or are in

:05:42. > :05:48.the moment, or without our ability to vote it down. We shouldn't agree,

:05:49. > :05:52.and I have tabled my own alternative motion. A few days ago, the EU

:05:53. > :06:00.announced what is a 4-part deal with Turkey. I can see what might be in

:06:01. > :06:08.it for Turkey. From that point of view it is a good deal. It is not in

:06:09. > :06:13.a brand's interest. It is not in our national interest. This deal will

:06:14. > :06:17.give 75 million Turks these are free, unrestricted access to the

:06:18. > :06:23.Schengen area from the next October. We may not be part of singing, but

:06:24. > :06:31.this does affect us. There will be no mechanism to lock people coming

:06:32. > :06:36.into the Schengen area, and none to lock people out. This deal can only

:06:37. > :06:42.add to the poorest miss of the EU's frontiers. It can only contribute to

:06:43. > :06:51.the increase in numbers of those seeking entry into the UK. The talks

:06:52. > :06:56.between the EU and Turkey mean that Turkish succession to the EU is back

:06:57. > :07:00.on the table. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, to join the EU. I

:07:01. > :07:13.wouldn't wish it on a friend like Turkey. I have concern over Turkey's

:07:14. > :07:20.abuse of minorities, those who are Christians. The Kurds in particular.

:07:21. > :07:26.We are considering supporting them wanting to join the EU. Why should

:07:27. > :07:34.we do that when they don't act their human rights abuse is so terrible?

:07:35. > :07:39.He makes a powerful point. We deal with Turkey as an equal, but they do

:07:40. > :07:45.not have the belief in equality in Turkey that we have in the West and

:07:46. > :07:51.in North America. That is a valid and powerful point. Into the deal

:07:52. > :07:59.between EU and Turkey, which we are being asked to approve, the EU will

:08:00. > :08:06.give Turkey 3 billion euros a year, of which a hefty cut comeback will

:08:07. > :08:11.come from a the UK. The fourth aspect of this deal under migration

:08:12. > :08:17.of management that I find the most objectionable. Each year some

:08:18. > :08:22.400,000 migrants from Turkey will be allowed to settle within Schengen.

:08:23. > :08:27.To settle within Schengen. We are not in the same, but it will affect

:08:28. > :08:36.us. These migrants will be assigned to Schengen Member States. Once the

:08:37. > :08:42.400,000 migrants have begin in the EU, they will acquire the right to

:08:43. > :08:56.live anywhere in the EU. We imagine that those allocated to our Hyatt

:08:57. > :09:01.employment -- Hyatt employment -- those assigned to Portugal, those

:09:02. > :09:06.assigned to live in Italy will be able to move wherever they want to.

:09:07. > :09:12.This is being assigned in our name with profound implications on us,

:09:13. > :09:17.and we have no say. We can correct specs more migrants to find their

:09:18. > :09:20.way into this country as a direct consequence of this deal, and there

:09:21. > :09:25.are many voters who will deeply resent the fact that they have not

:09:26. > :09:31.been asked. The motion before us talks about the need for us to work

:09:32. > :09:36.with our international partners. Indeed, we must, but I would ask

:09:37. > :09:43.ministers to be more circumspect when we select our international

:09:44. > :09:59.partners. It is difficult to access -- assess radicals without assessing

:10:00. > :10:06.Saudi Arabia. The EU has imposed sanctions on Iran. I cannot support

:10:07. > :10:14.the motion in front of us. I regret that even if this house objected,

:10:15. > :10:19.even if we rallied heroically to defeat this motion, if we voted down

:10:20. > :10:26.the motion, nothing would change. It wouldn't matter a drop. We do have

:10:27. > :10:30.assigned away the deal to sign a deal with Turkey. The consequences

:10:31. > :10:36.will be with us for the years to come. Here in eight empty chamber on

:10:37. > :10:47.a Monday morning, there is nothing we can about it. Karim three aspects

:10:48. > :10:56.of the European union agenda. The first document mentions... Save

:10:57. > :11:01.legal routes. Vulnerable people cannot be left to resorts to the

:11:02. > :11:07.criminal network of smugglers and traffickers, there must be safe ways

:11:08. > :11:11.for them to reach the EU. The house select committee has said that

:11:12. > :11:14.addressing the root cause of migration is to create safe and

:11:15. > :11:26.legal routes for refugees to enter the EU. A modest and wholly

:11:27. > :11:30.achievable proposal if there is political will. We welcome the

:11:31. > :11:37.Government's resettlement programme, overdue as it may have been. This

:11:38. > :11:42.has been an accumulation of documents over a long period of

:11:43. > :11:46.time, during which had our proposal in the European scrutiny committee

:11:47. > :11:51.been taken up earlier, we would have been debating these figures. We are

:11:52. > :12:03.not talking about 20 or 40,000, we are talking about 400, 500, 600,000.

:12:04. > :12:09.About the resettlement plans, I will talk about resettlement. It is not

:12:10. > :12:14.the only method of providing a safe and equal roots. We have urged the

:12:15. > :12:21.government to listen to extra organizations calling for family

:12:22. > :12:25.reunion loss, so that fewer people are compelled to risk their lives

:12:26. > :12:31.leaving the Mediterranean. The second aspect I want to mention is

:12:32. > :12:40.the most important is in regard to the notion of hotspots. We have

:12:41. > :12:46.talked about in recent months. This asylum system was already chaotic

:12:47. > :12:50.before this crisis began. Expecting those systems to cope with this

:12:51. > :12:59.crisis would be entirely unreasonable. This hotspot approach

:13:00. > :13:07.is supposed to help. In the theory, the you will work with front-line

:13:08. > :13:11.states to identify those who claim asylum, and they will be channeled

:13:12. > :13:18.into an asylum procedure where people will helps to support asylum

:13:19. > :13:25.as quickly as possible. 60 million euros was supposed to be invested in

:13:26. > :13:31.health care for migrants. I have not had the benefit of visiting any

:13:32. > :13:35.hotspots, but have read and listened to reports. Those include reports

:13:36. > :13:42.from the International Rescue Committee, who said that the weight

:13:43. > :13:47.hotspots are being carried out are leaving people without basics

:13:48. > :13:51.shelter. In October, and update explained reasons why that might be

:13:52. > :13:58.the case. Only six Member States have responded to the call, with

:13:59. > :14:11.just 81 out of 374 experts requested. Six Member States have

:14:12. > :14:15.responded out of 48. Lots of serious questions remain about hotspots, and

:14:16. > :14:19.how did they will function. I would like to know if the Minister can

:14:20. > :14:25.comment on the legal basis of these hotspots, and if these hotspots

:14:26. > :14:34.people in these hotspots have access to legal advice. How do I do with

:14:35. > :14:43.Will depend on their national LD. The number who have been removed

:14:44. > :14:49.from hotspots. What is the UK contribution to this? I turned to

:14:50. > :14:59.the issue of relocation. I was not able to attended the earlier debate.

:15:00. > :15:10.The government's negotiation with other EU states address pressures.

:15:11. > :15:14.The government washes its hands. Instead, they leave the

:15:15. > :15:20.responsibility to everybody else. The House of Lords described the

:15:21. > :15:24.excuse is as unconvincing. I would say that that is kind to the

:15:25. > :15:33.government. The idea that whether or not the UK take part in relocation

:15:34. > :15:38.scheme affects people who are attempting the journey. It has been

:15:39. > :15:40.months since the UK said it would shock its responsibilities in this

:15:41. > :15:57.card Piller regard. What are your peanut relocation

:15:58. > :16:01.scheme should be doing this to response to an emergency situation

:16:02. > :16:06.as humanitarian aid increases. Failing to opt in means that we are

:16:07. > :16:10.failing to live up to our duty of solidarity, that we share between

:16:11. > :16:16.the Member States. A crisis of this scale requires collective action.

:16:17. > :16:24.Dealing with the people in desperate circumstances is impossible for two

:16:25. > :16:31.or three countries. A number of 500 million, it poses an impossible

:16:32. > :16:37.struggle. As the European agenda document states, the member state

:16:38. > :16:41.can address relocation alone, and that we need a European approach.

:16:42. > :16:44.That is the approach that the government should be taking, instead

:16:45. > :16:55.said that head in the sand approach that is going on. With the leave of

:16:56. > :17:02.the house, perhaps I could respond to some of the point in this debate.

:17:03. > :17:07.The issue over organised immigration is important, and it is worth

:17:08. > :17:15.underlining the important the word -- over the months we have organised

:17:16. > :17:20.a task force, focusing on the crime that has been going on in the UK

:17:21. > :17:25.border, the Mediterranean, and France. We have disrupted organised

:17:26. > :17:30.crime, and our force will be expanded to a 100 strong team.

:17:31. > :17:37.Sharing data is vital to help us combat criminal gains, and enhanced

:17:38. > :17:41.data sharing is part of the EU's response. The chair of the scrutiny

:17:42. > :17:47.committee asked for the government's priorities in terms of where we

:17:48. > :17:51.think we need to take action. I have written previously to underline that

:17:52. > :18:00.there are four points that we have highlighted. On how the money is

:18:01. > :18:04.spent tackling projects in transit countries, how organised crime is

:18:05. > :18:09.fought which is better to join up with Member States, the issue of

:18:10. > :18:19.dealing with economic might immigration to ensure that those

:18:20. > :18:24.entering the EU -- those kinds of refugees status doesn't need to be

:18:25. > :18:26.addressed more firmly. We need a stronger coherence between

:18:27. > :18:34.development work and economic migrants. The issue of Dublin, we

:18:35. > :18:39.support the Dublin regulations. We believe that asylum dollars in the

:18:40. > :18:44.EU should be dealt with the member state concerned. The commission is

:18:45. > :18:48.Rita doing the Dublin regulations to bring in a new regulation that next

:18:49. > :18:52.spring. We are cooperating, but we believe that the long-standing

:18:53. > :18:57.principles at the heart of the relation of the right ones. It would

:18:58. > :19:08.be an error to replace them with untested measures. In respect of the

:19:09. > :19:14.operations into the Mediterranean is -- the high seas operation, and to

:19:15. > :19:17.reports of EU committee meetings, the house will be updated should

:19:18. > :19:23.there be further progress which we will look to. It is focused on the

:19:24. > :19:27.situation in Libya, and we welcome support from Libya and across the

:19:28. > :19:32.political spectrum and recognising the urgency of creating a

:19:33. > :19:41.long-awaited government, their accord that requires politicians to

:19:42. > :19:49.sign by December. The UN effort to establish a government of accord in

:19:50. > :19:54.Libya. We support that as a priority for moving forward. In terms of the

:19:55. > :19:57.EU Turkey action plan, the action plan covers most of our priority

:19:58. > :20:11.areas, including controlling the flow of migrants from from Turkey to

:20:12. > :20:18.the EU. It is important to stress that Turkey is tackling smuggling

:20:19. > :20:29.networks. The action plan incentivizes Turkey to do more, and

:20:30. > :20:37.the reaction plan does not guarantee Turkey -- it is important to

:20:38. > :20:43.underline in the stress -- the human rights abuses taking place in

:20:44. > :20:47.Turkey, have you been discussions on relation to this matter? It is clear

:20:48. > :20:53.to me at his house that the human right abuses have not stopped, and

:20:54. > :21:01.that they will continue full stop we do support Turkey's EU sufficient

:21:02. > :21:08.progress. The process recognises that Turkey needs to do more to meet

:21:09. > :21:13.EU standards to continuing reform, particularly in the area of

:21:14. > :21:16.fundamental rights. Active and credible negotiations remain the

:21:17. > :21:20.best way for Turkey to make further progress. We have touched on the

:21:21. > :21:26.hotspots issue, and the UK stands ready to support offers, and

:21:27. > :21:33.otherwise to see that there are the appropriate mechanisms in place. Our

:21:34. > :21:36.position on the migration crisis is practical, pragmatic, and focuses on

:21:37. > :21:43.the need for concerted humanitarian aid for those who need our

:21:44. > :21:46.protection, ensuring cooperation with EU partners, combating illegal

:21:47. > :21:49.immigration, and those who profit from it, and protecting our

:21:50. > :22:06.security. That is where the government's focus remains.

:22:07. > :22:22.The ayes have it. Motion at number five on business of the house. The

:22:23. > :22:35.question is as on the order paper. The ayes have it, the ayes have it.

:22:36. > :22:50.Motion number six, and seven. The question is as on the order paper.

:22:51. > :22:57.The ayes have it, the ayes have it. The question is as on the order

:22:58. > :23:11.papers. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. The question is that this

:23:12. > :23:16.house now adjourned. I am grateful for this opportunity to lead my

:23:17. > :23:23.first debate on the serious issue of finance for student nurses and

:23:24. > :23:28.midwives. I spent much of my career outside of this place working for a

:23:29. > :23:33.number of charities to widen access to higher education, and to tackle

:23:34. > :23:39.broader education disadvantage. As cabinet leader for well-being, I

:23:40. > :23:43.became aware of the challenges facing front line staff and managers

:23:44. > :23:51.of the front line trust to serve my constituents. I have eight -- I'm a

:23:52. > :23:56.supporter of Unicef, and I am grateful to the national student

:23:57. > :24:00.organisation, and other organizations who gathered the

:24:01. > :24:04.evidence for this evening's debate. With just a few lines in the Autumn

:24:05. > :24:12.Statement, the Chancellor announced the biggest shake-up in the career

:24:13. > :24:23.of nursing, midwifery since the act of 1968. By scrapping student plans

:24:24. > :24:27.and scrapping tuition fees, that's the skill and potential consequences

:24:28. > :24:30.of this dish and merit further Parmenter he scrutiny and public

:24:31. > :24:33.debate. I hope that tonight will provide the first of many

:24:34. > :24:40.opportunities for that debate to take place. Nursing and midwifery

:24:41. > :24:41.students pay no tuition fees for their studies. They receive grants

:24:42. > :24:54.up to ?1000 COMMENTATOR: Pounds. This is significant, because

:24:55. > :24:58.students in both courses are required to work throughout the

:24:59. > :25:03.degrees in clinical practice, where they are subject to 24-hour care

:25:04. > :25:08.cycles. They work evenings, nights, and weekends. Many will spend 60% of

:25:09. > :25:14.their degree doing this, with nurses required to work at least 2300 hours

:25:15. > :25:18.across the degree. Even with the current levels of financial support,

:25:19. > :25:23.many struggle to make ends meet. The courses are longer, their holidays

:25:24. > :25:27.are shorter, and their placement are demanding. Those who do paid work

:25:28. > :25:31.outside of their courts can't work over 60 hours a week as a result,

:25:32. > :25:36.and they should not be expected to do so. There has been a public

:25:37. > :25:42.outcry at the loss of the NHS per street, but the government public

:25:43. > :25:45.plans go further. Students will lose their grants for maintenance, but

:25:46. > :25:49.they will also be expected to take out loans for their tuition fees for

:25:50. > :25:56.the first time. These changes will burden students with debts of at

:25:57. > :26:01.least a ?51,600, which they will begin to pay back as soon as they

:26:02. > :26:04.graduate, because nurses starting salary is just over the repayment

:26:05. > :26:11.threshold, shamefully frozen at ?21,000. As a result, nurses will on

:26:12. > :26:18.average take a pay cut of ?900 a year in order to meet their

:26:19. > :26:23.payments. This is no way for ministers to treat the people who

:26:24. > :26:26.form the backbone of the NHS. Given that the government sees fit to

:26:27. > :26:30.charge the systems for tuition, perhaps the Minister will confirm

:26:31. > :26:34.whether he intends to pay students for the hours that they put into

:26:35. > :26:39.staffing or hospitals? If a private company try to get workers to work

:26:40. > :26:42.long shifts, and to pay for the privilege of working those long

:26:43. > :26:47.shifts, while training, they would be condemned. We should be no less

:26:48. > :26:53.outraged by what ministers are proposing for and midwives. The

:26:54. > :26:58.impact of these changes will be felt beyond nurses, and midwives.

:26:59. > :27:03.Physiotherapists, occupational therapists, dietitians podiatrists,

:27:04. > :27:09.radiographers, process assists and other allied health professionals

:27:10. > :27:13.stand to lose out. We're not talking about the highest paid people in

:27:14. > :27:19.this land. This is an assault on the living standards of workers, really

:27:20. > :27:22.causing outrage of staff and members of the public who chairs the work

:27:23. > :27:26.that they do on our behalf. Giving the skill of these reforms, it is

:27:27. > :27:29.outrageous that the government chose to sneak them out in the Autumn

:27:30. > :27:34.Statement. The Chancellor's statement made an oblique references

:27:35. > :27:39.at replacing direct funding with loans for new students. The policy

:27:40. > :27:45.decision on page 126 of the blue book merely says that students

:27:46. > :27:49.studying nursing, midwifery, or health subjects in 2017 will be

:27:50. > :27:53.moved onto her stomach onto standards support system with the

:27:54. > :27:57.details subject to consultation. Since the government has placed so

:27:58. > :28:02.little information in the public domain, and given that higher

:28:03. > :28:06.education institutions will be turning their minds to the 2017

:28:07. > :28:11.admissions round, I hope that like to be shed on the details this

:28:12. > :28:15.evening. Kennedy Minister confirmed that the government will consult on

:28:16. > :28:18.the principle of these policy changes, and not nearly their

:28:19. > :28:22.implementation? Can he tell us with the full timetable for this decision

:28:23. > :28:28.will be from consultation to implementation? Why analysis has the

:28:29. > :28:32.government conducted a on the students for tuition costs and

:28:33. > :28:37.maintenance costs, and while they published an assessment for these

:28:38. > :28:41.proposals? What research has the government conducted into the

:28:42. > :28:44.financial hardship facing existing nursing and midwifery students, and

:28:45. > :28:47.students of Allied health subjects? Why does the government think that

:28:48. > :28:50.it is fair that students from the most deprived backgrounds should

:28:51. > :28:55.have their grants taken away, while some of the wealthiest people

:28:56. > :29:00.receive tax cuts? How much of this that does the government expected to

:29:01. > :29:03.write off, because those indented by those reforms are unable to repay

:29:04. > :29:10.them in full? Department will meet the cost of servicing the charge for

:29:11. > :29:12.the student loan debt, the department for health, or the

:29:13. > :29:19.departed for business, innovation, and skills? What about Northern

:29:20. > :29:25.Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, where different places will be.

:29:26. > :29:39.Is I understand... Will be 56,000 people gathered. The health minister

:29:40. > :29:46.has committed himself to... Can they do the same? I agree with the Abu

:29:47. > :29:50.gentleman. Of course he rightly points out that this is going to

:29:51. > :29:53.open up a postcode lottery across the United Kingdom as it from parts

:29:54. > :30:00.of the United Kingdom choose to treat nurses and train nurses and

:30:01. > :30:03.midwives in different ways. We arty have in the case of the junior

:30:04. > :30:09.doctors dispute the government saw sent and decided to reflect on their

:30:10. > :30:14.position. We were faced with the prospects of nurses in my

:30:15. > :30:18.constituency flocking to other parts of the United Kingdom because the

:30:19. > :30:22.situation there was more generous. With great respect all of the people

:30:23. > :30:26.represented here, Scotland, wealth and Northern Ireland, I want to keep

:30:27. > :30:30.talented training doctors and nurses and midwives and other health

:30:31. > :30:35.confessionals who live in my constituency in my constituency is.

:30:36. > :30:40.So they can serve my constituents that too where they work. These are

:30:41. > :30:48.very serious issues and I hope... I will give way. He is making an

:30:49. > :30:56.excellent speech with excellent points pointing out the significance

:30:57. > :31:02.of nursing to the country. Scotland since their solidarity to their

:31:03. > :31:05.colleagues in England. -- since. I am glad he is bringing this debate.

:31:06. > :31:13.I'm grateful for that intervention, I condoned. Members on the benches

:31:14. > :31:17.opposite, they may where the NHS back on their lapel, but they are

:31:18. > :31:21.quick to attack the conditions of the NHS staff when it comes to

:31:22. > :31:26.taking difficult decisions. When we were in government, and we went as

:31:27. > :31:30.we were making changes to higher education, this is not something we

:31:31. > :31:35.brought forward. It will take no less from the party opposite when

:31:36. > :31:38.they attacked Labour spending plans at the 2010 General election because

:31:39. > :31:42.we wanted to have the deficit. They promised to eliminate it and they

:31:43. > :31:45.have to. It is on their own record that the government is not in a

:31:46. > :31:52.position to head to other parties when it comes to their record on

:31:53. > :31:55.spending plans. Does he agree with me that what is devastating about

:31:56. > :32:03.this is that people from my constituency, my background, the

:32:04. > :32:07.reality is they will not be able to... They will be crying out for

:32:08. > :32:10.nurses and people to fill those positions. The NHS is being burdened

:32:11. > :32:18.by agency staff who do not have the staff available? She speaks with

:32:19. > :32:21.great experience, the government should heed the points that she

:32:22. > :32:25.makes. I will turn to some of the other questions I have for the

:32:26. > :32:30.Minister this evening. Our clinical placements be funded under this

:32:31. > :32:36.student loan system? The government talks about the number of places it

:32:37. > :32:39.will expand, their occupational placements that need to be put into

:32:40. > :32:43.place and the government should explain how they intend to find

:32:44. > :32:47.those. Given the numbers of mature applicants were nursing, midwifery

:32:48. > :32:50.and allied health subjects, what assessment has the government made

:32:51. > :32:53.of the likely impact of these reforms on applications from the

:32:54. > :32:58.students. Is the government concerned that applications from

:32:59. > :33:07.mature students may fall given the depth of Digital impact that reforms

:33:08. > :33:12.had -- detrimental. Given that many choose it as a second degree may the

:33:13. > :33:16.be able to take $100,000 of that, how will the government ensure that

:33:17. > :33:25.this route is not close to the students? Have they done any thought

:33:26. > :33:32.about the extent of the reform... The government is... Does the

:33:33. > :33:36.government have any evidence which makes clear at what stage they are

:33:37. > :33:41.turned away? And if it is really the case that people are flocking to

:33:42. > :33:45.these professions, can the Minister explain my my trust has been so

:33:46. > :33:48.reliant on temporary agency staff including nurses flown over from

:33:49. > :33:56.Portugal to adjust the recruitment and retention challenges of facing

:33:57. > :33:58.our NHS. Can the Minister informed the House of any changes will be

:33:59. > :34:03.made to the additional allowances such as the extra weeks allowance or

:34:04. > :34:06.the dependents allowance? If so, what are those plan changes and if

:34:07. > :34:11.so what assessment has the government made up the potential

:34:12. > :34:14.impact of those plan changes? Given the press speculation over the

:34:15. > :34:16.weekend of the government explains increase the cap and university

:34:17. > :34:21.tuition fees over all, what assurance can the Minister give the

:34:22. > :34:23.House that students sitting nursing, midwifery and allied health subjects

:34:24. > :34:28.will not see the tuition fees spiked up even further than is already

:34:29. > :34:32.being suggested? Even at this government seems content is shipped

:34:33. > :34:36.it for existing students, can the Minister expect Turner features

:34:37. > :34:39.students to believe the terms and conditions may sign up for one not

:34:40. > :34:44.be changed and applied retrospectively down the line? At

:34:45. > :34:46.the very least, I hope the Minister will be able to confirm that the NHS

:34:47. > :34:51.will continue to find the tuition fees for extent too existing

:34:52. > :34:54.students for the remainder of their studies. When the Coalition

:34:55. > :34:59.Government chose to increase the fees in 2010, the move was subjected

:35:00. > :35:08.to debate and a vote in this house. Given the media speculation that

:35:09. > :35:11.current officers, two can the Minister give the House and

:35:12. > :35:15.assurance that we all have a vote and we all have a full debate should

:35:16. > :35:22.the government just extend tuition fees to nursing, midwifery and

:35:23. > :35:24.allied health subject costs? Many students have party written to

:35:25. > :35:28.ministers in the Department of Health and are awaiting a reply.

:35:29. > :35:33.With the Minister commit to meeting with student representatives to

:35:34. > :35:35.discuss their concerns. Madame deputies the greatest of hard to

:35:36. > :35:40.understand why the government shift in policy is generating so much

:35:41. > :35:49.concern and anxiety. -- Madam Deputy Speaker. ... The University of

:35:50. > :35:55.Hartford sure, and of the chartered Society of physical therapy, I have

:35:56. > :35:57.been contacted by student nurses and midwives in my own constituency and

:35:58. > :36:03.have received messages of support from this debate from those in of

:36:04. > :36:06.other honourable and right honourable members. Before I

:36:07. > :36:08.conclude I would like to share some of the stories I have heard and

:36:09. > :36:13.finished by making a few points about nursing and midwifery students

:36:14. > :36:19.himself. These are exceptional people into their dedication to

:36:20. > :36:21.their job is incredible. They work long hours, often in difficult

:36:22. > :36:26.situations and take a direct role for caring for patients with there

:36:27. > :36:31.at their most of. Nursing student I have spoken to told me just how

:36:32. > :36:34.challenging their work can be. -- portable. The hands of patients

:36:35. > :36:47.their final moments comforting them as they passed. They are a bedrock

:36:48. > :36:51.of support for families. In the making of his powerful speech, I

:36:52. > :36:57.wanted to share my thoughts on the matter as someone who's sons life

:36:58. > :37:01.was saved by a student midwife and whose life was saved. Does he agree

:37:02. > :37:07.with me that now making those people not only work for free, but to pay

:37:08. > :37:12.to save the lives of people like me and my son is simply despicable? I

:37:13. > :37:15.wholeheartedly agree with my right honourable friend and I am grateful

:37:16. > :37:21.she shared her own difficult personal experience as well. Nurses

:37:22. > :37:25.care for us and some of our darkest and most painful moments, the weight

:37:26. > :37:30.of the responsibilities carries with what they have the physical and

:37:31. > :37:36.emotional load. The same history nurses midwife. One spoke with her

:37:37. > :37:45.baby was born still... When her baby was born, Tom Asche will never

:37:46. > :37:50.forget how she spent time with a mum who carried twins. She came back for

:37:51. > :37:53.another 12 and a half hours with the same woman. She supported the

:37:54. > :38:00.delivery of ten babies and feels immense pride in being part of a

:38:01. > :38:04.moment... Momentous moment. Save one life and you are a euro, say 100

:38:05. > :38:12.lives in Uranus. Is people are seeking to qualify for these... They

:38:13. > :38:15.deserve our respect, admiration and support in the right incentives to

:38:16. > :38:21.continue or even command study in the first place. Anastacia listen to

:38:22. > :38:30.the students protesting and the nearly 150,000 people who signed

:38:31. > :38:32.positions to keep the NHS bursary. Day shipping things through properly

:38:33. > :38:43.and I asked the government to support this process, it will be

:38:44. > :38:46.tragedy. I look forward to the ministers response and hope in the

:38:47. > :38:51.coming days, weeks and months he wasn't carefully to the voices of

:38:52. > :38:59.does who form the bath bone of our health service -- the backbone. Is a

:39:00. > :39:09.privilege to respond to this debate. I know I am doing so after a great

:39:10. > :39:12.speech who has experience and some expertise in student finance. He was

:39:13. > :39:19.on the front lines when we had discussions in this place some years

:39:20. > :39:23.ago. Not here but outside of it. I know that he brings passion, and

:39:24. > :39:30.knowledge to this debate. I hope that he will not mind, I know he has

:39:31. > :39:33.heard this before, if I went through some of the issues and some of the

:39:34. > :39:39.reasons why the government feels this is the right thing to do. At

:39:40. > :39:45.the right time before I addressed some of the specific and detailed

:39:46. > :39:50.questions he has rightly put it. He will be aware that nursing remains

:39:51. > :39:58.one of the few subjects which is not put in the preview of the current

:39:59. > :40:07.student finance system. The current system is not delivering as it

:40:08. > :40:11.should both for health students and patients. The reason for that,

:40:12. > :40:18.simply put, is that nursing is one of the most oversubscribed subjects

:40:19. > :40:25.in the whole of the academic range of. It is the fifth most popular.

:40:26. > :40:29.Laster there were 57,000 applicants for the 20,000 nursing places

:40:30. > :40:36.available. I do not wish to go down the route of discussing in HS

:40:37. > :40:43.finance because it will lead us not into a place that is either easy or

:40:44. > :40:49.part of his argument. Nor is it particularly realistic to do so.

:40:50. > :40:51.There'll be no way that any government will be able to offer a

:40:52. > :40:59.place to every single person wishing to apply with the qualifications for

:41:00. > :41:06.a nursing place within the current funding system. The question is, how

:41:07. > :41:10.do we change the system so we get more people the opportunity to study

:41:11. > :41:16.nursing? And not only that, so that we are able to better supply the

:41:17. > :41:21.nurses and the nursing positions required and the NHS. He asked an

:41:22. > :41:34.important question I'm a which is why, he should be seeing a shortage

:41:35. > :41:38.in his specific hospital of field nursing places it is a function of

:41:39. > :41:45.parts of London, there are problems in recruiting. I was in a place

:41:46. > :41:49.where they have a similar problem. There is an oversubscription for the

:41:50. > :41:53.number of places. He could have... We almost have a record number of

:41:54. > :41:59.nurses in training. How does that add up, the simple reason is this it

:42:00. > :42:03.is because under this government we have seen a significant expansion of

:42:04. > :42:11.the number of nurses in the workplace. It was in response to the

:42:12. > :42:18.tragic events admin staff, the Francis Report and the results from

:42:19. > :42:27.the inquiry. It is let us to the conclusion that has eluded previous

:42:28. > :42:31.governments. In some parts of the country, it was not fatally stabbed.

:42:32. > :42:37.That required a significant increase in the nursing numbers. Nursing

:42:38. > :42:41.members that only be provided in the short term by agency nurses inspire

:42:42. > :42:46.recently we have not only increased the number of nurses, that takes a

:42:47. > :42:51.while to come through, but we have also been required to take action on

:42:52. > :42:57.the cost of agencies themselves. That does not change the fact that

:42:58. > :43:01.it is simply impossible within the funding set up as it is at the

:43:02. > :43:06.moment is that either the demand or supply for nursing. There are other

:43:07. > :43:14.reasons, if it were not for the reason we need to do something to

:43:15. > :43:17.get it better match between nursing places them at the NHS requires and

:43:18. > :43:23.what students want to do. If it were not for the reason, I will be

:43:24. > :43:25.wanting to push this reform for this reason, I directly disagree with the

:43:26. > :43:29.honourable member in his assessment of student financing. I disagreed

:43:30. > :43:34.with him in 2011 when we have this discussion, not in this chamber, and

:43:35. > :43:38.if I may gently put it I think that this side of the House was proved

:43:39. > :43:43.right of those reforms. The simple fact is we now have more

:43:44. > :43:49.applications from disadvantaged students than ever in the history of

:43:50. > :43:54.student finance and higher education in this country. We have seen a

:43:55. > :43:59.significant expansion in the number of students. Going to higher

:44:00. > :44:05.education, 18 euros are the most -- in the most disadvantaged areas are

:44:06. > :44:13.72% more likely to apply to higher education in 2015 then in 2006. It

:44:14. > :44:17.has happened in precisely the opposite way than he and his friends

:44:18. > :44:21.on the benches when they were making the argument in 2011 expected it to

:44:22. > :44:28.happen. We are outside that it it would happen that way. He should

:44:29. > :44:36.look a bit more carefully at what happened following those referred

:44:37. > :44:39.the microforms. -- reforms. He has he also accepted the majority of

:44:40. > :44:45.that loan that will never be paid back him and this includes graduates

:44:46. > :44:50.who have far more than nurses. I hope that he will concede my central

:44:51. > :44:56.point that it still the significant majority of students going into

:44:57. > :45:05.nursing ongoing active undergraduate point. For that cohort we have seen

:45:06. > :45:08.the most spectacular expansion opportunity to higher education than

:45:09. > :45:14.at any time since higher education was opened probably to people after

:45:15. > :45:20.the Second World War. I think we should celebrate on both sides of

:45:21. > :45:23.the House, I know that they have also embraced the reforms that

:45:24. > :45:26.happen and see why it is a good thing. To be direct with him, I know

:45:27. > :45:30.that I would disagree with many on his side of the House, I want to

:45:31. > :45:35.bring those advantages to student nursing as well. In two senses, I

:45:36. > :45:38.want to expand the number of places available to people from all

:45:39. > :45:40.backgrounds so that they have the opportunity to go into nursing and I

:45:41. > :45:50.want to bring the advantages of linking old to not too -- from nine

:45:51. > :45:55.too nontraditional places. I believe passionately in that. That is what

:45:56. > :46:01.even if we are not for the reason that the NHS requires is change, but

:46:02. > :46:06.students require this change. There are 37,000 people who do not get a

:46:07. > :46:09.place to apply for it, I would not be making this change because I do

:46:10. > :46:15.believe it is the right thing to do for those who otherwise would not

:46:16. > :46:23.have been given an opportunity. I will give way. Can I press them on

:46:24. > :46:30.my honourable member about mature students? In higher education the

:46:31. > :46:32.number of mature students attending are hacked, discovered way related

:46:33. > :46:41.to the funding issues. But also the social mobility Commissioner who is

:46:42. > :46:45.is the key vehicle for mature people to express and achieve social

:46:46. > :46:52.mobility is through education. Any address directly how he will avoid

:46:53. > :46:55.mature students, mature adults going and training from following

:46:56. > :47:03.similarly as it has in higher education? If you will give me a few

:47:04. > :47:11.moments to complete. I have several things to say I mature students.

:47:12. > :47:22.That is why I want to make sure that we are turning to making sure that

:47:23. > :47:32.any showing these proposals are robust as possible. Just answer his

:47:33. > :47:38.points that he made on the consultation, we will consult on the

:47:39. > :47:42.full too fullness of the reform, we will not consult on the principle

:47:43. > :47:43.cause that has been decided. It has been a point outline my my

:47:44. > :47:59.honourable friend. Bashed by my. And the timetable is that it will

:48:00. > :48:04.begin the consultation in January. We have not determined when you will

:48:05. > :48:10.conclude precisely, it will be a full consultation. The consultation

:48:11. > :48:13.will look at a significant part about how to make sure that mature

:48:14. > :48:21.students are supported. I can confirm one element of it, we will

:48:22. > :48:28.allow mature students to apply for the loan. That will account for only

:48:29. > :48:30.a small number of the cohort. We will be looking at the particular

:48:31. > :48:36.changes and impact that these changes will make. In relation to

:48:37. > :48:44.mature students, they make up about a third of the cohort going into

:48:45. > :48:51.nursing. I am a little bit confused about his argument which appears, by

:48:52. > :48:55.removing an existing advantage he will create an advantage for more

:48:56. > :48:59.people to go into the nursing profession. I have to say, most

:49:00. > :49:06.people listening to that will find it illogical. I know that the

:49:07. > :49:11.Minster is not normally in a logical person. Would be sensible to do what

:49:12. > :49:17.my honourable friend suggested, have a proper impact assessment. And then

:49:18. > :49:25.a vote in the neighborhood apartment so we can decide on the basis of the

:49:26. > :49:29.impact assessment, -- in Parliament. I can tell them that in economic

:49:30. > :49:34.impact assessment will be published with the consultation. I hope that

:49:35. > :49:43.that will begin to inform the debate. I know that he might imagine

:49:44. > :49:50.that the proposition I am putting this not align with how he might be

:49:51. > :49:53.a fact will turn out. Can I ask them to look at what happened in 2011

:49:54. > :49:59.when we met this debate with other students, in fact the fast majority

:50:00. > :50:12.when the exact arguments were put. We have seen the opposite happened.

:50:13. > :50:16.I will give way. The fact of the matter is, we are not talking about

:50:17. > :50:20.what happened then, we are talking about a particular group at the time

:50:21. > :50:24.were excluded those provisions. He has not yet explained to us why he

:50:25. > :50:29.now has decided to include them in the provisions, other than he is

:50:30. > :50:35.going to take away an advantage that already exist. I was testing the

:50:36. > :50:39.state -- I wish to see the same advantages that those are ready on

:50:40. > :50:42.the new financial assessment have go to those who are not on it. Able to

:50:43. > :50:48.see an expansion in a number of places. I want to see the affects

:50:49. > :50:52.and the changes that it has made to university admissions and the rest

:50:53. > :50:56.of the sector applied to nursing so we can see not only an expansion in

:50:57. > :51:00.the number of nurses being trained, but also a broadening of the

:51:01. > :51:09.backgrounds of those going into nursing as it has happened and all

:51:10. > :51:12.of our higher education areas. I will explain quickly how this is

:51:13. > :51:24.part of a wider reform we are making of student access to nursing. The

:51:25. > :51:31.honourable member friend his entire speech around the University route.

:51:32. > :51:36.The amended to reflect on the fact that this government has stated that

:51:37. > :51:42.it will bring in an apprenticeship route to nursing, to level six which

:51:43. > :51:48.will give an alternative route into nursing where nurses will be able to

:51:49. > :51:57.earn while they learn from HCA levels all the way to a full nursing

:51:58. > :52:00.qualification. Added degree level. The it'll be possible for them to do

:52:01. > :52:05.so mature students which will mean that it may take a bit longer, but

:52:06. > :52:09.it means they will be able to earn all of the way from an existing job

:52:10. > :52:13.up until having a nursing qualification. An innovation which I

:52:14. > :52:21.think should be welcomed on both sides of house. It is a real

:52:22. > :52:27.opportunity for expansion. I will explain before I give way, there are

:52:28. > :52:32.many people working as health care assistance in the NHS who do not

:52:33. > :52:36.have the opportunity to be able to progress. Unless they leave the

:52:37. > :52:42.workforce to do so. That puts them in and of -- in an impossible

:52:43. > :52:47.situation because they have other duties and families to support. What

:52:48. > :52:50.we are able to do for the first time is given opportunity to that group

:52:51. > :52:58.of people to be able to progress through their partnership route.

:52:59. > :53:01.Which will expand the whole error of career progression to one of the

:53:02. > :53:05.larger cohorts in the workforce of the NHS in a way that no government

:53:06. > :53:13.has previously done. -- apprenticeship. Able to clear up

:53:14. > :53:16.some things. I wondered if could clarify, if they will be paid for

:53:17. > :53:25.doing that apprenticeship and what rates? And if in a cohort he is

:53:26. > :53:30.talking about, getting students into work, those people will not fall

:53:31. > :53:35.foul of the 16 hours that you have to work, not in training to receive

:53:36. > :53:38.the governments free childcare. On the childcare Bill committee was

:53:39. > :53:43.made that currently nurses in studying will not be able to act for

:53:44. > :53:53.that because when not be considered work. When they saved my life, it

:53:54. > :53:58.was light work. -- like. She speaks with authority from her own

:53:59. > :54:09.versatile experience. I noticed recently she has spoken her mind

:54:10. > :54:16.without holding back. But I will say to her, we are in detailed

:54:17. > :54:20.discussions now with the nursing midwifery Council about how this

:54:21. > :54:23.friendship route will work. They are the independent regular and have to

:54:24. > :54:28.certify that qualification matches the existing degree and University

:54:29. > :54:40.route. It has to have completed quality on both a steam and rigor.

:54:41. > :54:55.The apprentices will get a salary. -- a esteemed. You ask back to

:54:56. > :55:01.continue with a similar salary point as an apprentice. I will take her

:55:02. > :55:06.particular question, the concern about maternity care, it pertains to

:55:07. > :55:12.student nurses rather than apprentices. I will write her a

:55:13. > :55:18.detail about it. I hope that what she will realize that asking her

:55:19. > :55:25.question, she does have strength behind this. There will be two roots

:55:26. > :55:29.and to nursing, one of the University, the other the

:55:30. > :55:35.apprenticeship. This is one of the most exciting innovations in the

:55:36. > :55:40.workforce of the NHS for several decades, opens up nursing to a whole

:55:41. > :55:43.range of existing people who have not had an opportunity before and

:55:44. > :55:49.provides a different route into nursing. With the same rigor and

:55:50. > :55:51.robustness which the existing university degree route gives. I

:55:52. > :56:03.will give way once more. He cares about getting of mature

:56:04. > :56:08.students into nursing and training programmes. If numbers do fall going

:56:09. > :56:12.forward, will he come back to the house and report on it? Will hit

:56:13. > :56:21.pause any further reforms until the decline is halted? I expect to be

:56:22. > :56:25.held accountable for this significant reform all the way

:56:26. > :56:33.through the changes that are in there envisaged. I hope to return it

:56:34. > :56:37.with good news about progress as it has happened with other areas. We

:56:38. > :56:40.want to be deliberative about the way that we form this consultation.

:56:41. > :56:49.It is important that we get it right. I note the careful

:56:50. > :56:54.questioning. He understands the full gamut of the issues that need to be

:56:55. > :57:01.addressed in this consultation. I will at answer some of those. He

:57:02. > :57:06.asked about pinnacle placement and the funding of them. We have started

:57:07. > :57:10.discussions about that with universities, and that will form

:57:11. > :57:16.part of the wider consultation. The consequentialist will be a matter

:57:17. > :57:21.for the Treasury, as they are for everything else. Officials are

:57:22. > :57:27.discussing that in the normal way. He asked about research into

:57:28. > :57:31.financial hardship, and that will form a part of the consultation. The

:57:32. > :57:35.government will be open to further research beyond the economic impact

:57:36. > :57:39.assessment. He asked whether I would be happy to meet students, and of

:57:40. > :57:43.course I would be. I have already met unison and a nursing

:57:44. > :57:50.organisation, and discussed the changes that I wish to make. I

:57:51. > :57:54.shouldn't pretend to answer for them, but I have had productive

:57:55. > :58:01.discussions with both, especially around the apprenticeship route. I

:58:02. > :58:05.know that we will disagree about bursaries, but with unison in

:58:06. > :58:12.particular I think that there is an understanding to open up different

:58:13. > :58:14.routes into the nursing workforce. I think that the model will be a

:58:15. > :58:28.strong one. The member made an important point

:58:29. > :58:33.about agency nurses. As I enter that as I am passing. Part of the reason

:58:34. > :58:43.why are we are looking at this is to make sure that we provide a more

:58:44. > :58:49.sustainable workforce, so that we can not rely on agencies and the

:58:50. > :58:55.thanks Steph for the peaks in NHS demand. That is why we need to do

:58:56. > :58:59.something around numbers, and why I hope we will be increasing the

:59:00. > :59:03.numbers by 10,000 over the course of this Parliament. That is a

:59:04. > :59:09.significant increase in establishing student nurses. It would be the

:59:10. > :59:15.largest increase in student nurses in any government since 1948. I hope

:59:16. > :59:20.I have answered the majority of the questions. Clearly I haven't.

:59:21. > :59:24.LAUGHTER I will give an opportunity once more, but I do not want to keep

:59:25. > :59:28.the house much longer. I welcome what he said about treading

:59:29. > :59:32.carefully and thoughtfully around the consultation. What he has not

:59:33. > :59:41.addressed whether or not extending the tuition fee regime to all of the

:59:42. > :59:47.students would be subject to thoughtful debate followed by a vote

:59:48. > :59:51.in this house, and the other place? I can't give him a definitive answer

:59:52. > :59:55.to that yet, because I think that we will wait and see what the outcome

:59:56. > :00:01.of the consultation is so that the house can be better informed. I

:00:02. > :00:07.imagine there will be opportunities and a for debates. I know that he

:00:08. > :00:10.will want to bring it. I reflect his concerns to the secretary of state

:00:11. > :00:15.and to the Leader of the House, who I am sure will receive them with

:00:16. > :00:19.interest. I thank you for bringing this, because it gives us an

:00:20. > :00:24.opportunity to explain our rationales. There will be points

:00:25. > :00:27.where we disagree, but I hope that you will see the force of our

:00:28. > :00:33.arguments about what we want to do to expand the nursing workforce to

:00:34. > :00:36.provide different routes into nursing, and to provide

:00:37. > :00:40.opportunities to 18 and 19-year-old undergraduate nurses that have been

:00:41. > :00:46.extended to other parts of the higher education sphere. These are

:00:47. > :00:52.big proposals, and they could mean a rapid transfer mission of the NHS

:00:53. > :00:57.workforce, and expansion in the number of nursing students. I hope

:00:58. > :01:06.for a constructive discussion across the house with the kind of expertise

:01:07. > :01:16.that we have heard from members. The question is that this House do now

:01:17. > :01:27.adjourn. As many of the opinion said ayes. The ayes habit. -- have it.