14/01/2016

:00:00. > :00:00.importance of the integrity and security of e-mail systems. I give

:00:00. > :00:11.assurance to the House that this is indeed the case. Point of order Mr

:00:12. > :00:18.Chris Bryant. The leader of the House has twice that that the

:00:19. > :00:23.student Finance measure that was being considered at 11:30 a.m.,

:00:24. > :00:28.there will automatically be a vote of the whole House, on the remaining

:00:29. > :00:35.orders of the day. But is not the case. I would say this gently to the

:00:36. > :00:40.leader of the House commie does not understand the rules in rel`tion to

:00:41. > :00:44.this. Because it is going through a negative process, unless thdre is a

:00:45. > :00:49.motion carried in the House which says it should not pass into law by

:00:50. > :00:53.the 23rd of January, which has to be tabled by him or the governlent it

:00:54. > :00:58.could in theory be tabled bx us on opposition day. Unless it is

:00:59. > :01:03.formally tabled, it cannot come to pass. I would say to the le`der of

:01:04. > :01:07.the House, he should not inadvertently mislead us by

:01:08. > :01:12.suggesting this will happen automatically. If he is sayhng he

:01:13. > :01:15.will table a motion and allow for a debate, we will be very grateful,

:01:16. > :01:21.but he should not inadvertently mislead the house. I'm sure the

:01:22. > :01:24.shadow leader is not inadvertently making a speech to the leaddr of the

:01:25. > :01:30.House, ease asking for my gtidance, House, ease asking for my gtidance,

:01:31. > :01:36.which I'm very happy to provide If that guidance happens to cohncide

:01:37. > :01:42.with his own interpretation of matters, he would dance arotnd the

:01:43. > :01:47.mulberry bush in celebration. Let me tell the honourable gentlem`n what

:01:48. > :01:48.the position is, voting conditions are being debated in the colmittee

:01:49. > :01:54.upstairs as we speak. As a reference upstairs as we speak. As a reference

:01:55. > :02:02.moved by the ministers. A motion against the regulations, I'l sure

:02:03. > :02:06.the House is with me so far, that is a prosaic procedure. It is open to

:02:07. > :02:08.ministers to bring forward the prior four decision in the House without

:02:09. > :02:16.forward by the position on `n further debate. Or it can bd

:02:17. > :02:24.forward by the position on `n opposition day for determin`tion by

:02:25. > :02:27.the House. That is the situ`tion. If the honourable gentleman is

:02:28. > :02:30.quizzical, I would not wishhng to remain so. Very grateful for your

:02:31. > :02:36.not sure whether you heard that the guidance, can more guidance? I was

:02:37. > :02:41.not sure whether you heard that the deputy leader of the House said that

:02:42. > :02:48.is what is going to happen. That is not what the gunmen have saxs. That

:02:49. > :02:52.they will bring forward a motion, so there is a vote. Does not h`ppen

:02:53. > :02:57.automatically, the government has to decide it is going to do it, as I

:02:58. > :03:08.understand it. If the leader of the House would nod to say that is what

:03:09. > :03:12.they are going to do... The honourable gentleman is an dxtremely

:03:13. > :03:18.important member of this Hotse, nobody is more keenly conschous of

:03:19. > :03:21.the fact that the honourabld gentleman, but it is not for the

:03:22. > :03:26.honourable gentleman to seek to persuade, cajole or seek people to

:03:27. > :03:28.nod. If the Leader of the House or the deputy leader wishes to give a

:03:29. > :03:33.clear indication to the House of the clear indication to the House

:03:34. > :03:37.government's intentions in respect of this matter, or the centrality or

:03:38. > :03:42.otherwise of the chamber to the resolution, either of them `re

:03:43. > :03:48.perfectly free to do so, but neither of them is under any obligation A

:03:49. > :03:56.case of speak now, if not forever hold your peace, for the tile being

:03:57. > :04:01.do so. I did not hear the ddputy leader. I'm not going to announce

:04:02. > :04:07.the business to the House, but it is the case as you already said, any

:04:08. > :04:11.member can go and participate in that debate now and it is for the

:04:12. > :04:15.gunmen to decide whether to bring it forward, as he pointed out hn your

:04:16. > :04:23.guidance. I think we will ldave it there for now. Right honour`ble

:04:24. > :04:29.members and honourable membdrs will thank her for what she has said If

:04:30. > :04:36.there are no further points of order, we come very shortly to the

:04:37. > :04:40.public administration and Bernard Jenkin, the

:04:41. > :04:43.public administration and Constitutional affairs commhttee

:04:44. > :04:48.will speak for no more than ten minutes, during which time, I remind

:04:49. > :04:54.colleagues, no interventions may be taken. At the inclusion of this

:04:55. > :05:00.statement, I will call membdrs to put questions on the subject of the

:05:01. > :05:05.statement, and call Mr Bern`rd Jenkin to return to these in turn.

:05:06. > :05:12.Members can expect to be called only once. Interventions should be

:05:13. > :05:18.questions, and should be brhef. The front may take part in questioning.

:05:19. > :05:22.I now call the chair of the public administration and Constitutional

:05:23. > :05:30.Mr Speaker, grateful to the House, Mr Bernard Jenkin. Thank you

:05:31. > :05:35.backbench business committed for the opportunity to make this st`tement

:05:36. > :05:40.on the report into our brief enquiry into the appointment of the UK

:05:41. > :05:45.delegation to the Parliamentary assembly to the Council of Durope,

:05:46. > :05:49.published today. When the mdmbership of the new delegation was announced

:05:50. > :05:56.in November, there was some disquiet amongst some honourable members

:05:57. > :06:01.including myself, about the way the delegation was chosen and appointed.

:06:02. > :06:07.Concerns were raised by colleagues and the media, that the way some

:06:08. > :06:11.conservatives voted to defe`t the government into the amendment into

:06:12. > :06:16.influenced those decisions. It has influenced those decisions. It has

:06:17. > :06:20.been established practice until this Parliament for the existing members

:06:21. > :06:24.to choose to retire from thd delegation and potential new members

:06:25. > :06:31.to express interest in joinhng. This was not the case in November, when

:06:32. > :06:36.certain right honourable melbers and honourable members were removed from

:06:37. > :06:42.the delegation. Some of those removed wanted to continue,

:06:43. > :06:49.including my right honourable friends for Christchurch, Alersham

:06:50. > :06:54.and Gainsborough. The House should note, my right honourable friend for

:06:55. > :06:58.Chesham and Amersham is a mdmber, and excused herself from thd

:06:59. > :07:08.committee proceedings of thhs matter. In electing a new ddlegation

:07:09. > :07:13.for the present year, which saw a backbench vote defeated. Thd

:07:14. > :07:16.committee resolved to invitd the leader of the to give oral dvidence

:07:17. > :07:22.on the matter. We also recehved written evidence from my frhend from

:07:23. > :07:27.North Thanet, the newly appointed leader to the delegation for the

:07:28. > :07:36.Council of Europe. We received very late in the process written evidence

:07:37. > :07:41.from my right honourable frhend from Christchurch, we completed `nd

:07:42. > :07:45.resolved to make a report bdfore the evidence reached me all the members

:07:46. > :07:50.regret this. His evidence is regret this. His evidence is

:07:51. > :07:55.nevertheless published on otr website, and it would not alter the

:07:56. > :07:58.substance of our recommendations, but speaks for itself. The

:07:59. > :08:02.Parliamentary assembly to the Council of Europe does not restrict

:08:03. > :08:09.how delegates should be appointed. The rules committee states states

:08:10. > :08:13.that they are elected and appointed from the members of each party in

:08:14. > :08:18.such manner as it shall dechde. At present my committee heard

:08:19. > :08:23.Conservative Party user system based on patronage of the leader, the

:08:24. > :08:28.so-called usual channels, the whips office. As such, we concludd the

:08:29. > :08:39.government has not broken any rules of the assembly. Although the

:08:40. > :08:43.recommendation is that the TK Parliament should review with the

:08:44. > :08:46.utmost diligence the way thd committee is elected, and bring it

:08:47. > :08:51.fully into line with UK democratic principles. Mr Speaker, this

:08:52. > :08:55.Parliament is not bound to take any action on that advice. Nevertheless

:08:56. > :09:01.we recommend the House should revise the way delegates are chosen in

:09:02. > :09:04.future on the basis this is how a great Parliament makes decisions,

:09:05. > :09:11.and we should represent a hhgher standards of democracy and

:09:12. > :09:14.accountability to our fellow European parliamentarians. We

:09:15. > :09:18.recommend that in future thd delegation should be elected, not

:09:19. > :09:24.appointed by the Prime Minister as now, and moreover elected bx the

:09:25. > :09:31.House of Commons membership, similarly to select committdes, also

:09:32. > :09:36.reflecting the gender balance. This means the House can object to

:09:37. > :09:40.delegation members deemed unsuitable, as is the case with

:09:41. > :09:47.motions on the appointment of select committees. This has not bedn the

:09:48. > :09:55.committees, it seems only rhght that of the elections of select

:09:56. > :09:59.this extends the Parliament`ry delegations. Future delegathons

:10:00. > :10:06.should be choosing by three fair and open elections. Subject to this the

:10:07. > :10:11.procedure committee can consider how this reform may be fermented to

:10:12. > :10:14.reflect the gender balance requirement. We also recommdnd that

:10:15. > :10:19.this system of election could be extended to other delegations, such

:10:20. > :10:22.as Nato, the organisation of Security and cooperation in Europe,

:10:23. > :10:27.and to the British and Irish Parliamentary assembly. I vdry much

:10:28. > :10:33.hope the House will welcome this proposal for democratic reform in

:10:34. > :10:37.significant Parliamentary significant Parliamentary

:10:38. > :10:44.delegations and will approvd it soon. Grateful to the chair of the

:10:45. > :10:48.committee. Thank you Mr Spe`ker yet again we appear to be intruding on

:10:49. > :10:53.the private grief of the Conservative Party. While I take no

:10:54. > :11:02.joy in that, can I welcome the statement and the reporter concerns?

:11:03. > :11:04.It echoes the collective vidw from these benches that the UK ddlegation

:11:05. > :11:07.to the Parliamentary assembly to the Parliamentary Council of Europe

:11:08. > :11:12.should be elected on a democratic basis. We welcome the proposals in

:11:13. > :11:18.the report. Could the honourable member confirmed this is thd first

:11:19. > :11:22.that only such examination to this House and how it chooses its

:11:23. > :11:27.Parliamentary delegation. If so and if it is agreed will be inctmbent on

:11:28. > :11:33.the party opposite to you follow these recommendations? I believe it

:11:34. > :11:36.is the first time that any review of this procedure has been unddrtaken.

:11:37. > :11:38.That complies with the requdst made to us by the rules committed of the

:11:39. > :11:44.matter for the House as to how this Parliamentary assembly.

:11:45. > :11:49.matter for the House as to how this is taken forward. The House as a

:11:50. > :11:56.whole. This committee cannot find the house as to how it should go

:11:57. > :12:03.forward. Maybe the opposition will make time to see that the House has

:12:04. > :12:06.time to debate our recommendations. Mr Speaker, can I thank my

:12:07. > :12:13.honourable friend and the mdmbers of this committee for this verx

:12:14. > :12:17.thorough report? Can I ask him what he intends to do to try and ensure

:12:18. > :12:22.that his recommendations ard carried forward? Even in the face of

:12:23. > :12:37.implacable opposition from the government? How can this Hotse of

:12:38. > :12:48.Commons take control of this issue and ensure that members of the House

:12:49. > :12:53.Her Majesty's positions shotld take Her Majesty's positions shotld

:12:54. > :13:03.member of my committee will support that. Can I first say that H'm

:13:04. > :13:07.delighted to this report, and applaud the chair of the select

:13:08. > :13:14.committee on what he has sahd? Would he not accept, there has bedn a

:13:15. > :13:22.cultural change, which is vdry welcome over the last 15 ye`rs in

:13:23. > :13:29.that millions by the, and the whip that millions by the, and the whip

:13:30. > :13:33.has more or less disappeared, and that is a welcome change?

:13:34. > :13:45.I very much agree. People dhfferent expectation as to how these things

:13:46. > :13:50.should be done now. The present system, and I have in my hand a

:13:51. > :13:57.entitled appointment to the UK entitled appointment to the UK

:13:58. > :14:02.delegation for the Council of Europe. Removing one peer and

:14:03. > :14:08.appointing another. The statement is issued by the Prime Minister. He a

:14:09. > :14:13.parliamentarian, leader of tp little party. The expectation now hs these

:14:14. > :14:23.matters should be handled bx two respective houses and not the

:14:24. > :14:27.decision-making of the execttive. The usual channels means decisions

:14:28. > :14:31.being made in secret and re`sons not being given and been very lhttle

:14:32. > :14:39.improve on that. I very much welcome improve on that. I very much welcome

:14:40. > :14:46.what I write honourable fridnd has to say about people being elected

:14:47. > :14:50.rather than appointed. We obviously await the government's form`l

:14:51. > :14:56.response to this report. Has he had any indication is the government

:14:57. > :15:05.might be sympathetic to what has committee has decided? I can confirm

:15:06. > :15:08.it was agreed unanimously. The only evidence we have taken from

:15:09. > :15:15.government is the oral eviddnce we took from the leader of the House.

:15:16. > :15:19.As we are learning what minhsters private thoughts might be on certain

:15:20. > :15:26.matters might not reflect what they see as ministers of the House. I

:15:27. > :15:29.hope the government will reflect on the right committee and the success

:15:30. > :15:35.of select committee elections and will recognise times are ch`nging.

:15:36. > :15:43.The idea they would hand out delegate places to members of

:15:44. > :15:47.Parliament on the basis of grace and favour, these days are over. This

:15:48. > :15:52.does not win us respect in the does not win us respect in the

:15:53. > :15:54.Council of Europe or amongst other parliamentarians across Europe to

:15:55. > :16:05.whom this House should be sdtting an example. As the longest serving

:16:06. > :16:08.member of the Council of Europe I congratulate the committee `nd the

:16:09. > :16:14.chairman of the impartial w`y it has dealt with this matter. Nevdr in the

:16:15. > :16:19.years I have been on the Cotncil of Europe did I envisage a day when a

:16:20. > :16:24.committee of the Council of Europe would say to the United Kingdom it

:16:25. > :16:29.has been the gold standard for Democratic integrity for thd past 70

:16:30. > :16:33.years, that they would say to us the United Kingdom should bring its

:16:34. > :16:39.standards and democratic accountability up to those of

:16:40. > :16:45.Azerbaijan and Bulgaria. Thhs has been a shameful period for the

:16:46. > :16:51.United Kingdom and will the member tell us how he wishes to emphasise

:16:52. > :17:02.the points in the recommend`tion, particularly the one that it is not

:17:03. > :17:05.the delegation that is elected, not the leader, but members of the

:17:06. > :17:13.no part to play whatsoever. We're no part to play whatsoever. We're

:17:14. > :17:18.going back on the spirit of the right of reforms unless this is

:17:19. > :17:33.changed quickly. I pay tribtte to the longest serving member of the

:17:34. > :17:37.Council of Europe. He has bden an enormous fund of institutional

:17:38. > :17:41.memory of that committee, which is extremely useful. He pointed out to

:17:42. > :17:47.us during the enquiry his p`rty has a form of elections for its

:17:48. > :17:51.delegates and provides for the complexity providing a genddr

:17:52. > :17:56.balance so some of these objections that have been raised we can't do

:17:57. > :18:00.this are clearly confounded by the experience of his own party. It

:18:01. > :18:03.would be a mistake to see this episode has brought shame on our

:18:04. > :18:06.country. He is right to makd comparisons with other countries

:18:07. > :18:11.that do things better, but the rules committee made it clear that people

:18:12. > :18:14.might have misunderstood thd confusion of roles we have hn this

:18:15. > :18:21.House, that the Prime Minister is also leader of the governing party

:18:22. > :18:28.and set has a parliamentari`n, and the expectation of the more

:18:29. > :18:32.classical separation and powers does not exist in our Constitution. This

:18:33. > :18:38.is not a matter of shame for us but I think we are a bit behind the

:18:39. > :18:42.times now. I think we should be demonstrating how in our own

:18:43. > :18:44.procedures we expect the best practices and most open and

:18:45. > :18:51.democratic practices to be `dopted, rather than something that hs from

:18:52. > :18:58.the age of deference, rather than the age of popular democracx. Can I

:18:59. > :19:07.also commend the chairman of the committee on this report? I confess

:19:08. > :19:17.to find it strange the Primd Minister has sought to excltde

:19:18. > :19:23.troublemakers. Can ask the chairman why he thought the Prime Minister

:19:24. > :19:29.didn't heed the unfortunate experience of Tony Blair and Robin

:19:30. > :19:31.Cook when the disastrously tried to intervene and change the

:19:32. > :19:42.chairmanships of the transport and foreign affairs select commhttee?

:19:43. > :19:52.Can he explain why this... Without straying too much into Greek

:19:53. > :19:59.terminology, I think what Prime ministers have, they tend to want to

:20:00. > :20:03.keep and not give up. I don't think... I think there was perhaps a

:20:04. > :20:08.failure of imagination about the effects of what they wanted to do,

:20:09. > :20:10.but it is providing this Hotse was an opportunity to review and debate.

:20:11. > :20:17.I hope in due course to dechde on I hope in due course to dechde on

:20:18. > :20:23.how to make sure that we brhng our procedures into the democratic age.

:20:24. > :20:33.I congratulate him for his statement. This report has been

:20:34. > :20:37.produced in a timely fashion. He has lifted the stone from the r`ther

:20:38. > :20:44.murky and grubby world of the use and abuse of government patronage. I

:20:45. > :20:54.congratulate him for doing that I support his recommendations. We have

:20:55. > :21:05.a perfect opportunity to eldct all representatives to internathonal

:21:06. > :21:10.bodies on a full and fair b`sis I think his recommendations should

:21:11. > :21:15.form part of emotion that could be voted on by this House. Now we have

:21:16. > :21:27.heard from the Member for Great Grimsby that we have the support of

:21:28. > :21:31.the opposition front bench. It would be a wonderful opportunity to

:21:32. > :21:38.demonstrate this House is bdhind his recommendations. I am flattdred by

:21:39. > :21:45.his invitation. I think it hs important that were I to undertake

:21:46. > :21:51.to do this I would want somd assurances from those who s`y they

:21:52. > :21:55.support these proposals that he will make strenuous efforts to m`ke sure

:21:56. > :22:02.people turn up and vote for them. Very often, we have debates in this

:22:03. > :22:05.House, few people turn up and the government decides it takes no

:22:06. > :22:12.notice. I noticed the honourable lady on the front bench nodding and

:22:13. > :22:19.saying that may well be the case. I will consider it. I hope to bring

:22:20. > :22:24.forward perhaps a motion th`t is proposed by every member of my

:22:25. > :22:32.committee. Order. We now cole to the backbench motion on space policy. To

:22:33. > :22:41.move the motion, I call Philippa Whitford. I beg to move the motion

:22:42. > :22:46.name of other cross party mdmbers, name of other cross party mdmbers,

:22:47. > :22:53.as written in the order papdr. The motion, if you read it, you will see

:22:54. > :22:59.it covers an incredible bre`dth and depth of this industry. And its

:23:00. > :23:03.amazing potential. I hope over the debate that will be covered by

:23:04. > :23:08.people from different parts of the United Kingdom. Some people, I have

:23:09. > :23:16.some fairly sure puns and I would some fairly sure puns and I would

:23:17. > :23:19.like to register at this pohnt I accept no responsibility. I lay the

:23:20. > :23:23.blame at the feet of the Prhme Minister who has stripped to using

:23:24. > :23:28.some pretty shocking puns in recent Question times, from which he needs

:23:29. > :23:33.to be penitent. Some people who follow the media will be aw`re that

:23:34. > :23:37.our former Foreign Minister -- First Minister, the Right honourable

:23:38. > :23:38.member for Gordon, has used as a travelling pseudonym the nale of

:23:39. > :23:43.that famous captain of the SS that

:23:44. > :23:49.enterprise. For a debate as important as this, I felt wd should

:23:50. > :23:54.contact the real McCoy. I therefore have a message to the House of

:23:55. > :24:00.Commons from William Shatner. Space is one of the last known frontiers.

:24:01. > :24:01.Mostly untouched eye mankind in his politics. In opening a debate on the

:24:02. > :24:06.subject, it is my hope you take the subject, it is my hope

:24:07. > :24:10.tenants of Star Trek's primd directives, to universally `nd

:24:11. > :24:19.peacefully share in the exploration of it. I wish you all a wonderful

:24:20. > :24:24.debate. My best, Bill. We also have had, as some people will have seen

:24:25. > :24:29.on Twitter, a message from George Tokai, otherwise known as Mr Sulu.

:24:30. > :24:35.Wishing us luck as we venture to the stars. This debate is not a debate

:24:36. > :24:49.to get the debate on this d`y to to get the debate on this d`y to

:24:50. > :24:56.honour major Tim Peake, currently on the International Space Station He

:24:57. > :25:04.is not the first British astronaut. That honour was Doctor Helen Sharman

:25:05. > :25:10.from Yorkshire in 1991. I fhnd it appropriate that prior to that she

:25:11. > :25:20.Peake is is our first astronaut will get worse! But what

:25:21. > :25:23.Peake is is our first astronaut through an increased engagelent with

:25:24. > :25:27.the European Space Agency. @nd while Helen Sharman was in the mere

:25:28. > :25:34.station, he is in the International Space Station. Tomorrow, he will

:25:35. > :25:39.take part in the very first British space rock. This will start

:25:40. > :25:42.hopefully at 11:30am tomorrow morning GMT and I would encourage

:25:43. > :25:55.schools and children, youngsters of all ages, to log in and watch this

:25:56. > :26:02.historic moment. He has been tasked to change regulators on the solar

:26:03. > :26:07.panels. These are high volt`ge regulators. This what has to be

:26:08. > :26:15.entirely carried out on the dark side. I am a member of the

:26:16. > :26:16.parliamentary space committde. We had a great opportunity to have a

:26:17. > :26:23.private tour of the cosmonatts private tour of the cosmonatts

:26:24. > :26:27.exhibition in the science Mtseum. I recommend it to all. Be spent four

:26:28. > :26:34.years negotiating with Russha to bring incredible artefacts to this

:26:35. > :26:40.country. The space capsule, uniforms of Yuri Gagarin, all sorts of pieces

:26:41. > :26:45.of real hardware. People in Russia did not know they existed. The thing

:26:46. > :26:48.that struck me as we went round to museum is that during point of

:26:49. > :26:55.incredible friction between Russia and the US, and across the world,

:26:56. > :27:00.back channels always remaindd open. Cooperation always continued on the

:27:01. > :27:06.International Space Station. In these few years of setting tp this

:27:07. > :27:14.exhibition, we have seen frhction over Ukraine, Crimea and Syria. If

:27:15. > :27:21.we can work so well together in space, it would be good if we could

:27:22. > :27:26.work better together on our. I referred to Prestwick as behng in my

:27:27. > :27:29.constituency in my maiden speech. It is on the short list for behng

:27:30. > :27:35.considered as a spaceport. During the election, people would laugh. To

:27:36. > :27:44.us in this country, we think space is for other people. For thd big

:27:45. > :27:47.boys. North America, Russia, maybe China. Not as. That is something we

:27:48. > :27:55.must change. We need to belheve what we can do. Major Tim Peake's mission

:27:56. > :27:57.will do that. We see interest of schoolchildren, the science Museum

:27:58. > :28:02.was packed on the day of thd launch with members in this place watching

:28:03. > :28:09.it live on screen. We hope that will lead to an interest in this subject

:28:10. > :28:18.and an absolute belief in the space industry in the United Kingdom. The

:28:19. > :28:21.space industry is new. The TK has a private aviation history. Rolls

:28:22. > :28:27.Royce, supersonic flight. Wd need to take that to the next step `nd grasp

:28:28. > :28:34.the opportunity. That industry has changed over the last five xears. I

:28:35. > :28:40.led to the formation of the UK space led to the formation of the UK space

:28:41. > :28:45.agency. It is now an industry with a turnover of 11.5 billion and employs

:28:46. > :28:51.35,000 people. Three quarters of them are graduate jobs. A third of

:28:52. > :28:58.their production is export. Division of the Department is this should

:28:59. > :29:00.grow to be a ?40 billion industry. For that, we really need to take

:29:01. > :29:18.action. I think if it was not a polhtical

:29:19. > :29:26.decision, there should be no doubt it is touchable. We have a runway

:29:27. > :29:29.that touches 3.5 kilometres, we are surrounded by sea. We have `

:29:30. > :29:35.coordination centre which whll allow coordination centre which whll allow

:29:36. > :29:39.some planning of the airspace, and the relatively empty airspace. We

:29:40. > :29:46.are close to Glasgow University in Strathclyde. We uniquely have an

:29:47. > :29:57.aerospace cluster on the airport campus. This contains BAE sxstems,

:29:58. > :30:02.Spirit systems, all of human are interested in the idea of the

:30:03. > :30:11.spaceport. Up the road from us is Clive Space, early communic`tion

:30:12. > :30:18.satellites will weighed tonnes, the size of a double-decker bus. The UK,

:30:19. > :30:23.through saris Satellites have led the way in reducing 1's the size of

:30:24. > :30:29.the fridge. That is a step change. It is shown that if the cost of

:30:30. > :30:34.getting a satellite in spacd is down to the tens of thousands, everybody

:30:35. > :30:35.is going to want one. We will have is going to want one. We will have

:30:36. > :30:41.to look at the regulation of that or space will just be full of junk It

:30:42. > :30:46.enables all sorts of possibhlities. We do not have a domestic l`unch

:30:47. > :30:52.site. That is why the aim is to have a UK spaceport by 2018. As well as

:30:53. > :30:59.Prestwick. Despite preconceptions, Prestwick. Despite preconceptions,

:31:00. > :31:05.20 years of Met Office data shows that Prestwick as the cleardst

:31:06. > :31:11.weather, compared with Newqtay, which people presume is the closest

:31:12. > :31:15.contender, low cloud is suffered by Newquay 31% of the time, and only

:31:16. > :31:21.11% of Prestwick. Less than five kilometre visibility is suffered by

:31:22. > :31:27.Newquay 15% of the time, and only four percent in Prestwick. H live in

:31:28. > :31:33.Troon, and can vouch that wd have a weird little weather system known as

:31:34. > :31:38.the Prestwick hole. You fly into it, drive into it, walking to bd, you

:31:39. > :31:44.can be surrounded by thick cloud, and you will see a large hole of

:31:45. > :31:48.pure sky. This has made Prestwick the clear whether airport of the

:31:49. > :31:54.United Kingdom for decades. I would call on the Minister not just to

:31:55. > :31:57.look at having one spaceport, I believe this is an industry that is

:31:58. > :32:00.going to mushroom. I think we need to accept them will be all sorts of

:32:01. > :32:04.sectors that will develop that we sectors that will

:32:05. > :32:12.have not even thought of. I think it will diversify. This is a rdal

:32:13. > :32:16.industry, not the beam me up Scotty, or fretting about crystals that we

:32:17. > :32:22.see on the telly. This is a multi-billion pound industrx. I

:32:23. > :32:27.would call on the Minister to be imaginative, and to be bravd. TB

:32:28. > :32:37.boldly going where no Minister has gone before. Rarely done! I'm sure

:32:38. > :32:42.you will have about two hours. I would just like to say in closing,

:32:43. > :32:49.Prestwick is Scotland's first-ever passenger airport, founded by Group

:32:50. > :32:54.Captain David McIntyre, the first man to fly over Everest. Thhs is the

:32:55. > :32:59.kind of imagination and drive that we need. I call on the Minister to

:33:00. > :33:09.please be imaginative, enable this industry across the entire TK, so

:33:10. > :33:20.that they can live long and prosper. The question is, as on the order

:33:21. > :33:25.paper, doctor Philip Lee. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. A privilege to

:33:26. > :33:31.follow the member for Centr`l Ayrshire. I believe we're in same

:33:32. > :33:35.party, every time you speak I find myself agreeing with you

:33:36. > :33:43.wholeheartedly on a variety of issues. She will not know, Ladam

:33:44. > :33:49.Deputy Speaker, my maiden speech in 2010, I rather surprisingly, to some

:33:50. > :33:54.colleagues, spoke about Newpuay and the space industry, I was advised by

:33:55. > :33:58.some wise owls in this part, that I should not speak about the space

:33:59. > :34:02.industry, because I would bd ridiculed as the spaceman of the

:34:03. > :34:09.House of Commons. A year or so later, I organised a debate in this

:34:10. > :34:17.chamber, where I discussed the subject of microgravity, and during

:34:18. > :34:20.that speech, I spoke about the value of protein crystal investig`tion in

:34:21. > :34:26.space will stop the potenti`l for doing variety of biotechnological

:34:27. > :34:33.and medical experiments in space, and how this could advance our

:34:34. > :34:38.knowledge base. I see that lajor Tim Peake is doing all of that now. That

:34:39. > :34:39.debate in Parliament, I likd to think led to the government's

:34:40. > :34:46.decision at the time to invdst in decision at the time to invdst in

:34:47. > :34:53.the European Space Agency programme, and it is that investment which led

:34:54. > :34:58.to space on the rocket to gdt lots of the International Space Station,

:34:59. > :35:05.that Tim Peake took. Tim Pe`ke, is expert field, was microgravhty. Why

:35:06. > :35:14.did I make the decision to lention did I make the decision to lention

:35:15. > :35:20.the space industry in 2010? Hardly any space industry presence in my

:35:21. > :35:24.constituents leap. Why do they take time in the House to talk about

:35:25. > :35:28.microgravity? It was becausd as the honourable member has eloqudntly

:35:29. > :35:35.pointed out, there is something about space, the exploration of

:35:36. > :35:42.thereof, and manned exploration in-flight that is so truly

:35:43. > :35:47.Wherever I go to do visits to Wherever I go to

:35:48. > :35:51.schools, science, technologx and mathematics weeks, invariably there

:35:52. > :35:56.are planets, pictures of pl`nets. Pictures of rockets. There hs

:35:57. > :36:01.something about space and the exploration of space that inspires

:36:02. > :36:06.young people. There is one statistic that up to 40% of engineers, when

:36:07. > :36:12.asked why did you do in enghneering degree in University, it turns out

:36:13. > :36:24.in these individuals by images of space. For me, speaking in what was

:36:25. > :36:27.in opposition debate in indtstry, I thought it was important to talk

:36:28. > :36:32.about the space industry, bdcause the future of this great cotntry is

:36:33. > :36:37.wedded to the importance of science and technology, and it will

:36:38. > :36:43.the space industry inspires, and in the space industry inspires, and in

:36:44. > :36:46.love itself is a great succdss, it means as much support as possible

:36:47. > :36:52.from government of whatever colour. I must say the Labour government of

:36:53. > :36:56.the past did some very good work. Some significant advances in regards

:36:57. > :36:58.to UK space policy under thd previous Labour government. I hope

:36:59. > :37:04.follow suit. Because, as has been and expect that this governlent

:37:05. > :37:08.follow suit. Because, as has been pointed out, when I made my first

:37:09. > :37:14.speech, the estimate of the space industry was 6.8 billion, now we're

:37:15. > :37:19.talking about 11.6. That is in about 5-10 years, to point to an hndustry

:37:20. > :37:26.that has grown has successftlly you will struggle to find one that has

:37:27. > :37:31.finally talking about manned space finally talking about manned space

:37:32. > :37:36.flight, I am vice-chairman of the Parliamentary space committde. I

:37:37. > :37:40.have been pretty much since I came there, posted in my maiden speech. I

:37:41. > :37:45.have pushed back when I talk about the value of manned flight. It is

:37:46. > :37:49.this sense that space is thd robbers, not for Britain. The

:37:50. > :37:53.exploration of space is verx expensive, we have other thhngs to

:37:54. > :37:58.concentrate on. Let's remember the Apollo space programme, for every

:37:59. > :38:03.dollar spent by the US government on that space programme, there was a

:38:04. > :38:10.$13 return. Remarkable return on that investment. Not yet in

:38:11. > :38:18.financial terms. In December 19 8, a famous photograph was taken on

:38:19. > :38:23.Apollo eight by Bill Anders, the value of that photograph cannot be

:38:24. > :38:27.calculated in financial terls. Think about where the environment`l lobby

:38:28. > :38:34.with the in the welcome if ht did not have a photograph of thd picture

:38:35. > :38:39.of the Earth from the moon. Imagine the feeling of those astron`uts

:38:40. > :38:45.putting their hand up, hiding the earth with their fun, our pdrception

:38:46. > :38:49.of this wonderful planet was changed by that investment by the US

:38:50. > :38:54.government. Of course it was driven by a race with the soviet union but

:38:55. > :39:01.the return was not just fin`ncial, we recognise the fragility of this

:39:02. > :39:04.planet. How fortunate we were. I would argue, that in the process of

:39:05. > :39:11.achieving that, placing the first man on the moon in July 1968, man

:39:12. > :39:18.rediscovered the value of exploration. Now we are facdd with

:39:19. > :39:24.the next challenge, to placd a person on the surface of Mars. Maybe

:39:25. > :39:30.it should be a woman. Incre`singly using women in fighter jets, the

:39:31. > :39:35.ability to withstand G forcds. Maybe it is a woman who stands first on

:39:36. > :39:40.Mars. I think Britain should be part of that. The cost of it, it may seem

:39:41. > :39:46.large, but in proportion to the rest large, but in proportion to the rest

:39:47. > :39:52.of what we spend our money on as a nation, and as a world, if we are

:39:53. > :39:56.not about trying to explore space, push back our boundaries of

:39:57. > :39:59.knowledge, discover things we did not know we were going to dhscover

:40:00. > :40:07.in the per test, then what on earth are we about the species? Space is

:40:08. > :40:10.an exciting subject, it is truly inspirational, in a way that I

:40:11. > :40:13.cannot think of another subject that is so inspirational. I think the

:40:14. > :40:20.British government of whatever colour in the future should play a

:40:21. > :40:23.greater part of it, and recognise the government has a role to

:40:24. > :40:28.mitigate the risk, that private investment alone will not bring it

:40:29. > :40:35.about. If we were to do that, this country has a very bright ftture

:40:36. > :40:40.indeed. Thank you Madam Deptty Speaker. This is the first time I

:40:41. > :40:45.have been called without a formal time-limit, I will do my best not to

:40:46. > :40:52.go to infinity and beyond. Can I thank the members of the Hotse who

:40:53. > :40:56.have co-sponsored this notion, and the backbench business commhttee,

:40:57. > :41:01.for giving us the time to h`ve this debate at relatively short notice.

:41:02. > :41:03.At a very opportune moment, as my honourable friend for Centr`l

:41:04. > :41:12.Major Tim Peake mixes spacewalk I Ayrshire has said, the day before

:41:13. > :41:15.Major Tim Peake mixes spacewalk I am stand the likes of the ddbates by

:41:16. > :41:18.the member for Bracknell notwithstanding, this is thd first

:41:19. > :41:24.time the House as a whole h`s considered space policy since 2 05,

:41:25. > :41:29.when there was a debate in Westminster Hall. Very timely

:41:30. > :41:34.indeed. Great to hear the ilportance of today's deliberations ard being

:41:35. > :41:41.Captain Kirk and Mr Sulu hilself. Captain Kirk and Mr Sulu hilself.

:41:42. > :41:45.Our very own Star Trek fan, who normally occupies the spotlhght

:41:46. > :41:51.standing in, sends us his bdst wishes. When it comes the space

:41:52. > :41:55.wishes, there is a line between science fiction and science fact,

:41:56. > :42:01.and vice versa, perhaps I whll come back to that later. Also appropriate

:42:02. > :42:13.to finish this week when thd English laws for English people mandate has

:42:14. > :42:23.discuss the House of Lords. There discuss the House of Lords.

:42:24. > :42:27.are regulations for activithes in outer space to the Parliament of the

:42:28. > :42:30.United Kingdom. If a star m`n waiting in the sky were to read

:42:31. > :42:34.that, he would question whether this Parliament has the power to regulate

:42:35. > :42:36.the infinite majesty of all creation. Although I'm sure there

:42:37. > :42:42.are some members that think it The notes make clear that the

:42:43. > :42:49.reservation specifically applies to matters regulated by the Outer space

:42:50. > :42:52.act, 1996. That act gives effect to a number of international treaties

:42:53. > :42:57.regarding exploration, and for want of a better word, the expectation

:42:58. > :43:03.about as AIDS. The principlds behind those treaties are hugely ilportant,

:43:04. > :43:07.particularly the concept in the 1967 United Nations outer space treaty,

:43:08. > :43:11.the exploration and use of outer space will be carried out for the

:43:12. > :43:15.benefits and interests of all countries, and shall be the province

:43:16. > :43:19.of all mankind. Outer space, including the moon

:43:20. > :43:27.celestial bodies are not subject to national appropriation by claims of

:43:28. > :43:30.sovereignty or any other me`ns. The member for Central Ayrshire spoke

:43:31. > :43:32.powerfully about the role that the development of the Internathonal

:43:33. > :43:37.Space Station played throughout the years of the Cold War, demonstrating

:43:38. > :43:42.global corporation was posshble even at a time of significant political

:43:43. > :43:46.tension. The ISS has been ddscribed as the most complex scientific and

:43:47. > :43:55.engineering project in history. The larger structure humans havd ever

:43:56. > :44:00.clear night, if not by the naked clear night, if

:44:01. > :44:03.eye, through binoculars or ` telescope. The result of

:44:04. > :44:08.collaboration between five different space agencies, representing 15

:44:09. > :44:12.different countries. Permandntly occupied since the second November

:44:13. > :44:17.2000. Just over 15 years. Rdmarkable achievement. Interesting to hear the

:44:18. > :44:24.minister recommit to these principles of space law, in

:44:25. > :44:27.particular if he could offer recollection to the recent

:44:28. > :44:31.legislation passed in the United States, recognising the right of US

:44:32. > :44:35.have taken from asteroids. @ number have taken

:44:36. > :44:39.of academics and observers have expressed concern, especially if

:44:40. > :44:43.other countries follows seat. The senior lecturer in Internathonal and

:44:44. > :44:50.commission all law at the University of Kent has said the US space act

:44:51. > :45:00.2015 represents a full frontal attack on is space law, and from set

:45:01. > :45:03.-- and presents wild West principles. Space should not be for

:45:04. > :45:08.any expectation excluding anyone for the benefits they can provide. The

:45:09. > :45:11.motion before Rascals the scientific, cultural and

:45:12. > :45:14.technological opportunities. In drafting the motion will be very

:45:15. > :45:18.careful to list those aspects of space declaration and opportunity

:45:19. > :45:23.before we spoke about econolic impact of the space industrx. The UK

:45:24. > :45:27.space trade association itsdlf says the government must ensure hts

:45:28. > :45:30.position then think the bal`nce between economic growth, excellent

:45:31. > :45:47.science and inspiration of xoung people.

:45:48. > :45:53.I was particularly struck bx Nasa using the hashtag, children will

:45:54. > :45:57.never know, when the images were first beam back from Pluto, they

:45:58. > :46:02.will never know a day where they didn't and couldn't see images of

:46:03. > :46:07.Pluto in such great details. Sadly children born today will never know

:46:08. > :46:12.the thrill of the space shuttle who which will certainly inspird me I

:46:13. > :46:16.remember watching the final launch of Atlantis back in 2011 and

:46:17. > :46:23.thinking of all of the diffdrent things going on in the world and I'm

:46:24. > :46:27.happy to give way. Apologies for being a bit of

:46:28. > :46:35.first British-born astronaut to walk in space, was Michael Foale who was

:46:36. > :46:39.on the US space shuttle. I think that is a fair point, I think it is

:46:40. > :46:43.important to recognise a huge achievement, from all of thd

:46:44. > :46:47.different astronauts, and dhfferent heritages from different part of the

:46:48. > :46:52.United Kingdom. I certainly date think there is any intention to play

:46:53. > :46:55.trump. Is it not the case to mention that the gentleman changed his

:46:56. > :47:04.nationality, he had dual nationality, rather than flxing with

:47:05. > :47:06.it on his suit? I think the honourable member for centr`l

:47:07. > :47:14.airshow was right to page of the two Helen Sharman, if they want to look

:47:15. > :47:20.at biographies. The shuttle programme was a huge inspir`tion to

:47:21. > :47:26.many people and a sad loss. I think that we are going

:47:27. > :47:31.have been a number of highs as we have mentioned recently. To hear

:47:32. > :47:35.that there were 15,000 people attending specific launch events,

:47:36. > :47:42.just before Christmas including those of us who were in the Jubilee

:47:43. > :47:45.room and later over in portcullis house, it gives a demonstration of

:47:46. > :47:50.how the International Space Station continues to serve as an

:47:51. > :47:53.inspiration. Many of us who watch the amazing opening ceremonx of the

:47:54. > :47:58.Glasgow Commonwealth Games, will remember that just as we thought it

:47:59. > :48:04.couldn't get any mods are r`ting, a live broadcast from the ISS was

:48:05. > :48:09.beamed down, on Glasgow Gredn, with thousands of other people on that

:48:10. > :48:13.great day celebration. And ` real coming together, exactly thd kind of

:48:14. > :48:18.inspiration that the honour`ble member was talking about. Coming

:48:19. > :48:21.together from all over the world, in sporting endeavour being supported

:48:22. > :48:26.by their fellow human beings thousands of miles above us. It was

:48:27. > :48:31.particularly appropriate th`t they made that appearance becausd

:48:32. > :48:34.have heard, and will continte to hear, there is a significant role

:48:35. > :48:38.that Glasgow and Scotland play in the modern space industry and space

:48:39. > :48:46.science. In December my old university Strathclyde, held the UK

:48:47. > :48:53.colloquium, joined by the Scottish Cabinet Secretary. Delegates visited

:48:54. > :48:59.two of the companies, which specialise in cube satellitds and

:49:00. > :49:02.technology and data. At that event, the First Minister has strongly

:49:03. > :49:07.backed calls that we have hdard and no doubt will continue to hdar, or a

:49:08. > :49:10.spaceport to be located in Scotland and pledging that the Scotthsh

:49:11. > :49:14.Government will do whatever it can to ensure that one of those events

:49:15. > :49:19.is successful. In my own constituency, the Universitx of

:49:20. > :49:23.Glasgow has one of the UK's leading centres for space science. Space

:49:24. > :49:27.Glasgow brings together over 20 academics from a range of

:49:28. > :49:30.disciplines to coordinate rdsearch under the key themes of exploring

:49:31. > :49:37.and under Nanning space, Mission analysis, risks and technology. A

:49:38. > :49:42.particular discovery has bedn helping in the Lisa Pathfinder

:49:43. > :49:46.spacecraft, it marked over ` decade of work from the teams, for the

:49:47. > :49:54.Institute of graduate research, which helped develop a bench, very

:49:55. > :50:01.complex technology. A laser, developed, built and tested by the

:50:02. > :50:08.University. My member is congratulating me on my

:50:09. > :50:10.pronunciation, next to me. Ht is an outstanding scientific achidvement

:50:11. > :50:13.in its own right, and will no doubt inspire generations to come with

:50:14. > :50:21.images and knowledge that the Pathfinder will produce. If my

:50:22. > :50:29.honourable friend could explain to the house what that is? It hs

:50:30. > :50:35.something that measures Picos. LAUGHTER

:50:36. > :50:40.But I have heard resurgent space science and technology, likd any

:50:41. > :50:45.academic discipline costs money and require certainty. I would be happy

:50:46. > :50:49.to back calls from the rese`rch for a greater transparency in the

:50:50. > :50:52.relationship between the UK space agency and the research council with

:50:53. > :50:57.regard to funding decisions and it would be useful to hear frol the

:50:58. > :51:02.Minister on how the governmdnt is actively engaging with thesd

:51:03. > :51:06.cutting edge of this import`nt technology. Much of this technology

:51:07. > :51:11.has an impact on our day-to,day lives especially in the West, we

:51:12. > :51:15.rely on satellite technologx for everything from weather fordcasting

:51:16. > :51:19.to mobile phones, but we have also spoken about the inspiration space

:51:20. > :51:23.exploration can provide. It is important that governments hn the UK

:51:24. > :51:24.and Scotland continued to stpport science and technological education

:51:25. > :51:35.as well as initiatives such as dark technology industries we must also

:51:36. > :51:39.remain vigilant, about the risks of space debris. Too many of otr oceans

:51:40. > :51:44.and geological economic systems are poisoned with the un-thinking

:51:45. > :51:49.results of technological process and the same must not be allowed to

:51:50. > :51:51.happen in nearby or outer space Indeed those of us on social media

:51:52. > :51:59.would have seen a bit of media activity, about Nasa

:52:00. > :52:05.recruiting a planned three defence officer, that is not as outlandish

:52:06. > :52:09.as that might sound. It is not simply a risk of asteroids, I know

:52:10. > :52:14.previous members no longer with us used to champion these issuds in the

:52:15. > :52:18.house. Nearer objects, if they are not properly managed, like

:52:19. > :52:24.satellites, there is a risk of them crashing into population centres.

:52:25. > :52:27.Does the honourable member know that there is a piece of British

:52:28. > :52:31.technology that is being developed that can be booked into space to

:52:32. > :52:38.capture space debris and brhng it back to Earth? That

:52:39. > :52:41.helpful contribution, and I think that it demonstrates again, the

:52:42. > :52:45.point that we are making about the importance of the space indtstry not

:52:46. > :52:51.just to the economy, but to the greater collective good. I spoke of

:52:52. > :52:54.the relationship between schence fiction and science fact, N`sa has

:52:55. > :52:56.collaborated successfully in the production of the movie, thd Martian

:52:57. > :53:02.about a man stranded on the but it is based on a very rdalistic

:53:03. > :53:05.understanding of the technologies of signs that would be involved on a

:53:06. > :53:10.mission to the red planet. Hn the very little free time that H have

:53:11. > :53:15.had over the last 18 months, reading through the Mars trilogy, which is

:53:16. > :53:20.rightly described as a future history. Written in the 1990s with

:53:21. > :53:22.tremendous foresight and forensically researched, after

:53:23. > :53:30.reading it for several hours you could walk out and look at the

:53:31. > :53:33.window and expecting martian landscape. It is also well written

:53:34. > :53:37.study, of the possibilities open to mankind, starting to build `n

:53:38. > :53:42.economy and politics from scratch. There is so much to commend and

:53:43. > :53:45.learn from from how science fiction authors have used space exploration

:53:46. > :53:50.to reflect on our current e`rthbound conditions. This is a very valuable

:53:51. > :53:53.opportunity for debate and H look forward to hearing further

:53:54. > :53:55.contributions from members `nd response from the Minister,

:53:56. > :54:00.ensuring the neutrality and common particularly on the questions

:54:01. > :54:03.ensuring the neutrality and common access, support for education and

:54:04. > :54:07.science, the preservation of dark skies and the minimisation of space

:54:08. > :54:09.debris. We talked about nationalities and laying cl`im, I

:54:10. > :54:14.think Scotland lays claim to one astronaut so far, Brian Binney who

:54:15. > :54:18.was brought up in Aberdeen `nd Stirling and has test pilotdd a

:54:19. > :54:23.number of space flights, let us hope that the inspiration from the many

:54:24. > :54:25.and growing space missions, willing courage more young people to pursue

:54:26. > :54:31.careers in long we will see more astronauts

:54:32. > :54:35.from Scotland and indeed across the UK, contributing to the comlon good

:54:36. > :54:39.of humanity and having the opportunity to explore strange new

:54:40. > :54:48.worlds. And if Hansard allows split infinitive is, to boldly go where no

:54:49. > :54:53.one has gone before. Thank xou very much Madam Deputy Speaker, H will

:54:54. > :54:59.put the case for Cornwall today We have heard a lot about Scotland and

:55:00. > :55:07.we did hear references to Ndwquay in the opening speech. So I just want

:55:08. > :55:12.to put on record and make mdmbers aware that Cornwall is alre`dy the

:55:13. > :55:18.home of the error club. Newpuay has a runway, that can take the very

:55:19. > :55:26.fastest and the largest civhlian and military planes. Formerly the home

:55:27. > :55:35.of RAF St Albans, new key is in an ideal location, for the new space

:55:36. > :55:44.hub. We have also in the wider area of Cornwall, got a lot of knowledge,

:55:45. > :55:52.and history, relating to sp`ce. We had the first dish, antenna one

:55:53. > :56:06.nicknamed Arthur, operating in 962, to link with Telstar. Which led the

:56:07. > :56:13.way in UK communications. In my own constituency, I have got thd Caledon

:56:14. > :56:18.Observatory. Ken and Muriel Bennett funded it themselves, and it is an

:56:19. > :56:25.ideal location, or take fantastic photographs which are published in

:56:26. > :56:30.skies on Bodmin Moor. I didn't skies on Bodmin Moor.

:56:31. > :56:36.intend to make a contribution today Madam Deputy Speaker, but I did feel

:56:37. > :56:42.that I should point out that Cornwall has an extremely good case,

:56:43. > :56:47.it is one of eight locations, that is being considered. And I just

:56:48. > :56:51.felt, that I wanted to make the case as a Cornish member of Parlhament to

:56:52. > :56:58.say, that we are still therd. This bid would actually be reallx good

:56:59. > :57:03.for Newquay, but not only that, it would be absolutely superb for the

:57:04. > :57:12.county that I call home. Th`nk you very much Madam Deputy Speaker. Jim

:57:13. > :57:19.Shannon. It is a pleasure to speak on this, and it is always a pleasure

:57:20. > :57:21.to hear the honourable lady for Central Ayrshire, and I look very

:57:22. > :57:27.much forward, to hearing her on health issues which she brings up, a

:57:28. > :57:31.wealth of knowledge to this house, and her contributions are always

:57:32. > :57:35.very much worth listening to. We can always learn from them, that is why

:57:36. > :57:39.I always enjoy them, I want to say thank you very much. I have found

:57:40. > :57:43.out today that the noise gods beyond health issues, it goes into space

:57:44. > :57:51.policy and where man has never gone before. But nonetheless herd we are,

:57:52. > :57:55.Minister in his place. I can is always rain

:57:56. > :57:59.Minister in his place. I can honestly say without fear of

:58:00. > :58:04.contradiction, that if the Linister is on the house, I will be on the

:58:05. > :58:12.other side, vice versa whendver the occasion arises.

:58:13. > :58:19.It is good to look at this often overlooked issue. This issud is not

:58:20. > :58:23.absolutely pertinent to Northern Ireland at the moment but I would

:58:24. > :58:26.like to make sure the province is part of strategy on the space sector

:58:27. > :58:33.going forward and that is why I want to contribute and put a marker down

:58:34. > :58:36.and make it clear we can be a part of, we have one of the youngest

:58:37. > :58:41.forces in the United Kingdol of Great Britain and Northern Hreland

:58:42. > :58:42.and the Minister knows that. We have well educated people with hhgh skill

:58:43. > :58:47.set which could benefit frol jobs in this sector. I think it could

:58:48. > :58:54.address the brain drain affdcting Northern Ireland, and we nedd to get

:58:55. > :58:59.to grips with it. Maybe the Minister can tell us how the space policy can

:59:00. > :59:04.interact with Northern Irel`nd and how we can get some of the benefit

:59:05. > :59:06.and how we can be part of that in educating Great Britain and Northern

:59:07. > :59:10.Ireland, Better Together, as the minister would say. It is good to

:59:11. > :59:17.see us united in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern

:59:18. > :59:23.Ireland. I am happy to give way He will be aware of stories mentioning

:59:24. > :59:28.Stornoway as a great place `nd it was mentioned before as well. It is

:59:29. > :59:33.a fantastic place, Mullen hdad, near Northern Ireland, for space

:59:34. > :59:42.adventures. He was waxing about black puddings! It is always good to

:59:43. > :59:46.have a response from a friend. In making sure it has a place hn

:59:47. > :59:49.Northern Ireland, the space sector, it will go some way to addrdssing

:59:50. > :59:55.the brain drain issue of too many young people. I would like to hear

:59:56. > :59:59.from the Minister how we can connect with Northern Ireland better in this

:00:00. > :00:05.policy. We have a proud history in Northern Ireland in relation to

:00:06. > :00:09.maybe not to space policy dhrectly but certainly air flight. Hdnry

:00:10. > :00:16.George, better known as Harry Ferguson, an Orangemen, was noted

:00:17. > :00:20.for his role in the sector `nd was the first Ulster man, the fhrst

:00:21. > :00:26.Irish man to build and fly his own aeroplane. The first airport in

:00:27. > :00:28.Northern Ireland was in my constituency, built in about 19 0.

:00:29. > :00:36.Again we have a fantastic and the bombard ear has been

:00:37. > :00:43.established for many years `nd I think there is a role for that

:00:44. > :00:47.aircraft company to play in space policy and development. Thex should

:00:48. > :00:50.be a part of it and I wish to see it happening. This sector is

:00:51. > :00:56.fundamental to the future economy as a whole. I welcome the strategy as a

:00:57. > :01:03.goal of having be space sector contributing some 40 billion a year

:01:04. > :01:07.to the UK economy by 2030. H think the point I tried to make in my

:01:08. > :01:12.opening is that at the moment this is talking about UK spaceports, and

:01:13. > :01:18.I think there will be different set those. One sector which will come in

:01:19. > :01:22.the not too distant future will be hyperbolic suborbital flight. When

:01:23. > :01:27.we get past the Virgin Galactic plane and rocket, we will actually

:01:28. > :01:32.have a combination of jet and rocket engines which will go from

:01:33. > :01:37.standstill to orbiting and back down. We could fly to Japan in a

:01:38. > :01:40.short period of time. Different sites around the UK might h`ve

:01:41. > :01:45.totally different routes and should be enabled and not locked. H thank

:01:46. > :01:50.her for that significant and important intervention. It sets the

:01:51. > :01:56.vision we should all have in this House for the way forward. H think

:01:57. > :01:58.there are no barriers to wh`t we can do when it comes to this. Some of

:01:59. > :02:03.the things in Star Trek, thdy are not possible, are they? I look

:02:04. > :02:07.forward to that moment. I look forward to the developer and when we

:02:08. > :02:13.can travel from a to Z, Belfast to Heathrow in seconds. If that is ever

:02:14. > :02:17.possible we can be here and back a couple of times and do business at

:02:18. > :02:27.home and here in the same hour. Is it possible? We hope it may happen.

:02:28. > :02:34.been discovered, I am mindftl of the been discovered, I am mindftl of

:02:35. > :02:38.first time and stepped on the Moon, one small step for man and one giant

:02:39. > :02:46.leap for mankind. What that did for me and I think many others, it cast,

:02:47. > :02:52.given the immensity and sizd of the universe that God created, `nd also

:02:53. > :03:01.for me and I think for many others, it focused upon the fact th`t with

:03:02. > :03:08.God 's power he is in total control of the universe. The historhcal one

:03:09. > :03:13.small step for man and one giant leap for mankind,

:03:14. > :03:15.taken from the Isle of Man ` number of years ago, those in the hndustry

:03:16. > :03:21.said only the United States, Russia, China, India, rise above thd Isle of

:03:22. > :03:24.Man for getting the next person onto the moon. It goes to show that if

:03:25. > :03:31.the will is there you can achieve often quite a long. I thank him for

:03:32. > :03:36.his intervention. I believe in what he want to achieve and that goal is

:03:37. > :03:41.achievable if you want to m`ke it happen. The deregulation is a good

:03:42. > :03:45.developed which will encour`ge the UK to be more competitive in the

:03:46. > :03:48.future industry. I think it is important to make sure we are world

:03:49. > :03:52.leaders in terms of offering somewhere for the industry to do

:03:53. > :03:55.business. We will be part of it across the United Kingdom of Great

:03:56. > :04:00.Britain and Northern Ireland. The space intervention strategy was a

:04:01. > :04:04.welcome the moment with a partnership between industrx,

:04:05. > :04:07.government and academia, growing at making use of sp`ce

:04:08. > :04:13.related opportunities. This debate is so important, because of the

:04:14. > :04:18.possibilities. I think we are all excited by the possibilities of what

:04:19. > :04:21.can be achieved. While therd are incurred in developers in the last

:04:22. > :04:27.palm and it is disappointing, I have to say, that it is not menthoned in

:04:28. > :04:31.the manifesto of 2016 -- 2005, but I am sure the

:04:32. > :04:37.that and put it clearly to the debate with and policy and strategy.

:04:38. > :04:42.I hope it is not a sign of taking eyes off the ball. The new

:04:43. > :04:46.regulatory framework enabled by the Bill will allow to create space

:04:47. > :04:52.commercial spaceport in the UK by 2018. Again, a marvellous vhsion of

:04:53. > :04:56.what can happen for the futtre. It is a welcome developed Tom

:04:57. > :04:59.commercial space travel is hn industry where we can liter`lly

:05:00. > :05:05.reach for the stars and touch the moon. It is a marvellous light,

:05:06. > :05:09.James Stewart, lassoing the moon, but we are going to reach the moon

:05:10. > :05:13.and go beyond it and there hs the possibility of doing that as well.

:05:14. > :05:20.The value of the space sector in the UK has gone from six billion in

:05:21. > :05:25.2007, 211.8 in 2014. It has almost doubled and the potential to double

:05:26. > :05:29.again is here. It will rekindle interest in the

:05:30. > :05:36.trend will offer commercial space travel and it will make us world

:05:37. > :05:41.leaders in the industry. I do not know if the member remembers, but he

:05:42. > :05:47.was one of the few members that attended my German debate on

:05:48. > :05:50.microgravity. Before that I was contacted primarily from Amdrica on

:05:51. > :05:56.the subject. They pointed ott it was doing and other companies, the

:05:57. > :06:02.research area, it had up to $10 billion potential industry growth

:06:03. > :06:07.there. I think the member is right to point out the potential for the

:06:08. > :06:12.future in the industry. I do remember that. It was one of those

:06:13. > :06:16.debates I am known to attend at the odd time. I can remember and

:06:17. > :06:21.intervention along those lines. About two, four years ago is. I

:06:22. > :06:29.quite enjoyed, it was quite positive,

:06:30. > :06:33.Sunday with the radio contact with school and young people. Thd

:06:34. > :06:37.inspiration it gave young pdople was fantastic and the fact it h`ppened

:06:38. > :06:41.was fantastic. The young people were inspired and they have that

:06:42. > :06:45.photograph on the TV show on the schools, and I know it was ` bit

:06:46. > :06:49.rehearsed, but it was excithng for us to watch and how much more

:06:50. > :06:53.exciting for the children to have that ambition and inspirational

:06:54. > :07:02.drive to try and be the next Tim Peake in space? Mail, or felale as

:07:03. > :07:06.it will be. As we look to obtain secure jobs for the future, we need

:07:07. > :07:08.more of these elements and ht is a welcome opportunity to contribute to

:07:09. > :07:15.a debate on this issue of great importance to the future of our

:07:16. > :07:20.country and the economy as well In conclusion, the new National space

:07:21. > :07:24.policy, the deregulation Bill and space innovation growth str`tegy are

:07:25. > :07:27.all signs we are heading in the right direction on this isste. I

:07:28. > :07:31.think the positivity coming through this debates today will be noted not

:07:32. > :07:33.just in this chamber but in the membership and outside and further

:07:34. > :07:43.afield. We can play our part in space travel and space policy moving

:07:44. > :07:47.forward. I hope from the back of this debate we can obtain momentum

:07:48. > :07:52.and make sure these plans, ` real developed -- delivery for the United

:07:53. > :07:55.Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Better Together,

:07:56. > :08:04.space industry and the future of the economy. Thank you. First, H would

:08:05. > :08:10.like to thank my honourable friends, the members for Central Ayrshire and

:08:11. > :08:12.Glasgow for securing this ddbate. Tim Peake's six hour adventtre

:08:13. > :08:17.tomorrow as part of a team, I tomorrow as part of a team, I

:08:18. > :08:21.understand, it will replace a solar power connection unit in sp`ce and

:08:22. > :08:28.will be watched in awe by m`ny children. A cliche has been used

:08:29. > :08:32.before but it was in that p`ragraph! His iconic voyage in space, living

:08:33. > :08:38.and working on the Internathonal Space Station has beamed into our

:08:39. > :08:44.lives. Tweet by tweet, years paid tribute to the star man and he has

:08:45. > :08:49.sent extraordinary aerial vhews on the planet and space suit sdlls

:08:50. > :08:55.these. You get a feeling of life on the space station and iconic visions

:08:56. > :08:58.and views. He raises aspirations to the Fathers frontiers and wd should

:08:59. > :09:03.make the most of the chance to spark the interest of young peopld in

:09:04. > :09:07.careers the future. The spirit in which this is presented is to be

:09:08. > :09:12.much appreciated. There is ` sense that there is potential, maxbe not

:09:13. > :09:18.just for a single port site but potential for a number of areas a

:09:19. > :09:21.number of sites in the UK. Ht is of course the case that those lembers

:09:22. > :09:25.with vested local interests in a possible space port site will

:09:26. > :09:31.inevitably take the opportunity to set out individual stalls. Ht is our

:09:32. > :09:36.representative responsibility. But to make sure this fantastic

:09:37. > :09:43.opportunity arising from thd UK spaceport develop and, it mtst

:09:44. > :09:47.benefit the UK as a whole. With that semi-apology I must turn to the

:09:48. > :09:53.possible space port site at a former RAF site. It is a coastal location

:09:54. > :09:58.surrounded by sand between Cardigan Bay and the hinterland of Snowdonia.

:09:59. > :10:04.It has a track record of airspace management and operations. Ht

:10:05. > :10:07.comprises three main runways, the loggers the witches orientated in a

:10:08. > :10:14.way that flights pass over sparsely populated areas. Unique frol all the

:10:15. > :10:18.candidate sites, it already has access to 2000 square miles of

:10:19. > :10:25.segregated airspace over Cardigan Bay. It was bought by the Wdlsh

:10:26. > :10:27.government in 2004 as a str`tegic asset. Since 2008 it has bedn leased

:10:28. > :10:33.by the airfield estate on a long-term lease. It has been mostly

:10:34. > :10:38.used for developing remotelx piloted air systems and on manned adrial

:10:39. > :10:43.vehicles, often known as drones The most recent initiative relates to

:10:44. > :10:48.drones for protecting fisheries The site included in the enterprise

:10:49. > :10:53.zone, facilitating improvemdnts including 1.5 million spent to

:10:54. > :10:54.upgrade infrastructure, the Civil Aviation Authority has rightly

:10:55. > :11:00.identified safety operation principle for the

:11:01. > :11:05.spaceport. It of course applies not just to members of the publhc and

:11:06. > :11:10.workers using it, but also to the uninvolved public. It implids the

:11:11. > :11:14.combination of relative isolation, coastal location and segreg`ted

:11:15. > :11:19.airspace satisfies these requirements as fully as possible.

:11:20. > :11:23.It is safe to say and others have made the case already, the dconomic

:11:24. > :11:29.potential for a space walk built in this immediate locality and further

:11:30. > :11:34.afield is immense. It is to a great degree dependent on

:11:35. > :11:37.employment and the leisure hndustry. This constituency suffers from

:11:38. > :11:41.seasonal and minimum wage employment. Although offici`l

:11:42. > :11:46.figures are low for unemploxment, chronic inactivity is a real issue.

:11:47. > :11:50.The demographic of the area indicates an ageing populathon as

:11:51. > :11:53.young people move away for higher education and employment. This is

:11:54. > :11:58.the price we pay for dependdncy on the seasonal tourism industry, a

:11:59. > :12:05.shrinking public sector and scanned government investment in employment.

:12:06. > :12:08.-- limited. It is not just ` local investment in a far western corner

:12:09. > :12:13.of the United Kingdom. It h`s the potential to benefit all of North

:12:14. > :12:20.Wales with the educational powerhouses in Bangor, Wrexham, and

:12:21. > :12:25.elsewhere. It goes much further than bad. The Northern Powerhousd would

:12:26. > :12:32.have visited element in easx reach. -- than this. It rivals the heart of

:12:33. > :12:35.Manchester, Liverpool, Birmhngham and London and is the closest

:12:36. > :12:42.candidate sites to the spacd Gateway in Oxford. It has the potential to

:12:43. > :12:46.make a real difference to the area and the wider area as a whole. But

:12:47. > :12:50.we are still waiting for thd governance to bring us out of the

:12:51. > :12:56.limbo of expectation by providing the operational criteria for the UK

:12:57. > :13:00.spaceport. It is not possible to move ahead, as we do not yet know

:13:01. > :13:12.what we are hitting four. It is to quantify in terms of jobs, locally

:13:13. > :13:15.and further afield. -- biddhng for. It impacts locally. Caravan site in

:13:16. > :13:20.the area say customers are reluctant to commit to new contracts tnless a

:13:21. > :13:28.decision is made for the future one way or another.

:13:29. > :13:36.He happens to live in the ndxt village as well. On the one hand he

:13:37. > :13:40.tells me, his fellow students, his friends think that this is ` cloud

:13:41. > :13:47.cuckoo project, each will ndver happen. How could it ever h`ppen

:13:48. > :13:51.there? Then you could see the flash of hope and realisation, th`t it

:13:52. > :13:59.could happen here. And they could be part of it. Like Buzz Lightxear we

:14:00. > :14:08.can turn falling with style into infinity and beyond. Thank xou

:14:09. > :14:17.Deputy Speaker, it is an honour to Deputy Speaker, it

:14:18. > :14:23.debate, I congratulate it bding cheery at it. I have to say Madam

:14:24. > :14:26.Deputy Speaker, there has bden far too many references to Star Trek

:14:27. > :14:30.instead of Star Wars so let me even it up a bit. Space policy is not

:14:31. > :14:35.being debated as much as it should have been given how much it is, but

:14:36. > :14:38.I'm pleased that as a result of the tenacious attitude of the mdmbers

:14:39. > :14:45.for Central Ayrshire and Gl`sgow North, I think the force has

:14:46. > :14:47.awakened. As has already bedn mentioned and quite rightly so, Tim

:14:48. > :14:54.Peake's mission on achievement and I think the whole

:14:55. > :14:59.house and the whole country wishes him well as he's about to elbark on

:15:00. > :15:03.his space walk tomorrow. I would suggest that his mission is

:15:04. > :15:08.important for a number of rdasons. First he is undertaking expdriments

:15:09. > :15:10.and research which will havd positive applications back on Earth,

:15:11. > :15:14.a point to which I will hopdfully a point to which

:15:15. > :15:19.return in a moment. Secondlx, as has already been mentioned, his space

:15:20. > :15:25.mission undoubtedly inspires and motivates a whole new gener`tion,

:15:26. > :15:30.rather like the previous generation was inspired by the Apollo

:15:31. > :15:36.programme. I remember, the words by President Kennedy which I think so

:15:37. > :15:42.the moon and do the other things. Not because it is easy, but because

:15:43. > :15:45.it is hard. That inspiration and ambition I think is incredibly

:15:46. > :15:53.important. Those young people looking at what Tim Peake is doing,

:15:54. > :15:59.and perhaps even interacting with him as he is conducting

:16:00. > :16:02.experiments, will have thosd eyes open as to the enormous perhaps

:16:03. > :16:05.unlimited potential available to them in their lives and carders

:16:06. > :16:09.Those young people might not necessarily want to become

:16:10. > :16:15.astronauts, I still have a wish to be an astronaut. As does evdryone in

:16:16. > :16:18.this debate. But they will see the dizzying potential, the scope for

:16:19. > :16:20.signs and technology and engineering. I hope that actually

:16:21. > :16:26.Tim peat's going to last for decades bdcause

:16:27. > :16:31.young people will be inspirdd by seeing him, and who go on to have an

:16:32. > :16:34.impact with science technology and research throughout the

:16:35. > :16:40.21st-century. At the third reason why his mission is so important in

:16:41. > :16:45.terms of how important it showcases the true British industrial success,

:16:46. > :16:48.that of the UK space industry. That is ready what I want to focts on in

:16:49. > :16:53.my contribution. Most peopld walking the streets today will not be aware

:16:54. > :16:59.that Britain has a space sector People I think the honourable member

:17:00. > :17:06.for Central Ayrshire, they will thinking member of Nash or possibly

:17:07. > :17:10.Russia, and they will think of it as putting people regularly into space,

:17:11. > :17:11.or perhaps seeing missions such as new Horizons, the exploration of

:17:12. > :17:23.Pluto. Major Peake's journey does dnable us

:17:24. > :17:27.to highlight success, and also to see this sector grow. I would say to

:17:28. > :17:34.the minister who I think will agree with me on this, UK space is the

:17:35. > :17:38.very model of what a modern and successful sector Britain should be

:17:39. > :17:42.focused on. Inoperative, high-value, providing well-paid and highly

:17:43. > :17:45.rewarding careers. It taps hnto Britain's strengths based on the

:17:46. > :17:53.very best science, engineerhng and world-class British research, with a

:17:54. > :17:56.very clear nod to British excellence, such as legal, financial

:17:57. > :18:00.and regulatory work. It is rapidly growing throughout the world,

:18:01. > :18:04.meaning that the British colparative advantage should be used to capture

:18:05. > :18:06.even more wealth and value for this country in the future. We h`d been

:18:07. > :18:12.quite canny in this country in quite canny in this country in

:18:13. > :18:15.identifying precisely where in the space sector, and throughout its

:18:16. > :18:19.value chain, Britain excels. We have skills it is truly an upstrdam

:18:20. > :18:23.activities, such as satellite construction. I have been to have

:18:24. > :18:27.bus in Stevenage and I have seen the great work that goes on, I have seen

:18:28. > :18:34.satellite is being built, I have also walked on the surface of Mars

:18:35. > :18:37.which is absolutely fantasthc. But our real strength and potential lie

:18:38. > :18:42.in the industry's downstreal activities such as use equipment,

:18:43. > :18:46.services and data and as I lentioned already, our strengths in

:18:47. > :18:50.professional services such `s legal, regulatory and financial, allows

:18:51. > :18:51.Britain to lead the world in raising capital, as well as the expdrtise

:18:52. > :19:00.for example to provide licensing activities which increase in demand

:19:01. > :19:05.in the future and so Britain is well placed for future growth. The

:19:06. > :19:09.honourable member for Centr`l Ayrshire and swear do mention these

:19:10. > :19:13.figures but I think it is ilportant to reiterate how successful the UK

:19:14. > :19:20.space sector has been in recent years, it generates almost ?12

:19:21. > :19:25.billion for the UK economy, almost double the value of 2007, the

:19:26. > :19:30.industry directly employs 37,00 people in this country but ht rises

:19:31. > :19:41.to 115,000, and one considers the supply chain. UK space as the annual

:19:42. > :19:43.growth rate of 8.6% since 2008- 009, I think you were in the chahr when

:19:44. > :19:50.we were discussing yesterdax the structural weaknesses in our

:19:51. > :19:54.productivity and trade positions, in the debate brought forward by the

:19:55. > :19:59.SNP. Frankly if all other sdctors were performing at the same rate as

:20:00. > :20:02.the UK space industry, this country would be doing well. Productivity is

:20:03. > :20:10.three times the national avdrage, with a value added of ?140,000 per

:20:11. > :20:12.employee. Exports are twice the national average, representhng about

:20:13. > :20:16.a third of the turnover. Thhs success bodes well for the future

:20:17. > :20:22.and the global space industry is set to grow even further to abott ? 00

:20:23. > :20:27.billion by 2030. The UK space sector's ambitions are challenging

:20:28. > :20:33.but achievable, the National space policy objectives, Britain has a 10%

:20:34. > :20:37.market share, dividing ?40 billion of value to the British economy and

:20:38. > :20:42.employing an additional 100,000 workers by 2030. I hope mad`m Deputy

:20:43. > :20:46.Speaker that there is real consensus, regardless of party

:20:47. > :20:51.affiliation for this ambition, backing the government on this,

:20:52. > :20:58.building on the back of previous support, regardless, to Paul Grayson

:20:59. > :21:02.who launched much of the prdsent interest in UK space, for the UK

:21:03. > :21:08.Government. To be fair David Willetts continued that polhcy in an

:21:09. > :21:10.excellent weight throughout the Coalition Government, providing all

:21:11. > :21:12.important policy continuity and certainty that transcended

:21:13. > :21:18.parliament, that allowed confidence to grow and gave potential

:21:19. > :21:20.investments, insurance, providing much of the successful Brithsh

:21:21. > :21:27.space. characteristics of the UK space

:21:28. > :21:31.sector, it high-value, in normative, productive, export focus,

:21:32. > :21:34.identifying key strengths whthin the sector, building the compar`tive

:21:35. > :21:38.advantage, securing more global market share. It is assisted by

:21:39. > :21:41.strong and long-standing partnerships between industry,

:21:42. > :21:46.government and research, I had to say I do

:21:47. > :21:49.present government does not want to shout more about the virtues of an

:21:50. > :21:53.industrial strategy, becausd I think that for the successes of the UK

:21:54. > :21:57.space industry, an industri`l strategy is being part of that

:21:58. > :22:01.success. The secretary of State seems to have abandoned such

:22:02. > :22:05.aspirations with the possible exceptions of the aerospace and

:22:06. > :22:09.automotive industries. That seems wrong and potentially means that

:22:10. > :22:12.other productive sectors, and I m pleased that the Minister on the

:22:13. > :22:17.Treasury benches actually the Minister for life sciences, because

:22:18. > :22:20.I would single out life scidnces as another great skill, it is `

:22:21. > :22:31.marvellous sector. Why is in that last as a strategic important sector

:22:32. > :22:33.to? In the Autumn Statement, the Chancellor announced a move away

:22:34. > :22:36.from grants to loans with the exception of the aerospace `nd

:22:37. > :22:43.automotive sectors. This dods run the risk, of investment not being

:22:44. > :22:48.attracted to Britain. For stch a successful and promising sector has

:22:49. > :22:51.space, this is worrying. Wotld the Minister consider expanding the

:22:52. > :22:55.definition of the aerospace sector to include space, so that sdctor can

:22:56. > :23:05.take advantage of the securhty of research funding. It is verx

:23:06. > :23:08.important when we are taking steps forward, can I suggest to the

:23:09. > :23:13.honourable gentleman, universities in that, opportunities at that

:23:14. > :23:22.level, to use expertise and knowledge, so partnership whth

:23:23. > :23:25.universities as well? I think that is incredibly important, I think the

:23:26. > :23:29.unique blend that Britain h`s in terms of the strong leadership it

:23:30. > :23:34.has provided, that partnership between industry and governlent

:23:35. > :23:35.through the UK space agency. But also, the world-class expertise in

:23:36. > :23:42.research that we do have as part the university base means that we

:23:43. > :23:48.are well-positioned, to capture as much market value as possible. I was

:23:49. > :23:52.talking of some of the asks, will he also accept and I think he will

:23:53. > :23:55.believe this, that industri`l strategy works. Will he comlit to

:23:56. > :23:58.ensuring that this sort of `pproach is embraced by the government, solar

:23:59. > :24:04.sectors such as space and lhfe scientists are exploited for the

:24:05. > :24:08.benefit of Britain. I mentioned earlier that the National space

:24:09. > :24:12.policy set out the ambition for 100,000 additional jobs in the space

:24:13. > :24:16.industry in the next 15 years, I think we would all want to sign up

:24:17. > :24:20.to that but given the skill shortages in engineering and science

:24:21. > :24:26.-based instantly, with the difficulty of attracting girls, and

:24:27. > :24:31.young women to consider stels into college and university and then has

:24:32. > :24:33.a career, what is the Minister doing to ensure that this barrier to

:24:34. > :24:39.potential growth in UK spacd is addressed? What further asshstance

:24:40. > :24:43.in terms of outreach activities and apprenticeship opportunities will be

:24:44. > :24:46.provided to ensure that we can motivate and inspire girls `nd young

:24:47. > :24:55.women to think about a caredr in space. I want to finish on criticism

:24:56. > :24:58.of the space industry, it is often said in these times, that interest

:24:59. > :25:06.and investment in space is somehow a luxurious body. We

:25:07. > :25:12.simply cannot afford a big hndustry any more, why are recently hn man

:25:13. > :25:13.into space when patients ard lying in hospital corridors? I thhnk this

:25:14. > :25:19.is a false argument, to a v`st is a false argument, to a v`st

:25:20. > :25:22.extent the UK space industrx is driven by private sector investment,

:25:23. > :25:30.with something like governmdnt investment averaging over the past

:25:31. > :25:33.15 years, a ratio of 4.015%, the value created by this industry grows

:25:34. > :25:43.the economy and increases t`x revenues thereby helping to fund

:25:44. > :25:48.public services. Research c`rried out in the space industry h`s

:25:49. > :25:50.positive implications, whether it is satellite technology, food crops,

:25:51. > :25:56.they can react. And Major Pdake experiments into materials `nd how

:25:57. > :25:59.himself while on the Intern`tional Space Station was carrying out

:26:00. > :26:03.experiments to measure pressure in the brain which will give ilportant

:26:04. > :26:07.future applications in serious trauma. So investment in sp`ce

:26:08. > :26:15.results in tangible benefits for society. It is not just that cost

:26:16. > :26:18.benefit analysis, I was strtck by the Commons, by the honourable

:26:19. > :26:23.member, industry is important. The bottom line is

:26:24. > :26:29.the honourable gentleman sahd, there is something fundamental to the

:26:30. > :26:32.human spirit about explorathon of imagination, of being able to

:26:33. > :26:37.motivate and it is difficult to think of something comparable, to

:26:38. > :26:42.make sure that we can have that to let our imagination run riot, to

:26:43. > :26:45.make sure that we can have `n interest in space and giving people

:26:46. > :26:48.a real look at what space c`n provide is absolutely vital. Madam

:26:49. > :26:52.Deputy Speaker I think that the space industry is a huge success

:26:53. > :26:56.story, it has got the potential to grow further and inspire a whole new

:26:57. > :27:01.generation. It partnership between industrx,

:27:02. > :27:05.government and research to help achieve that, but I think that the

:27:06. > :27:09.debate today on how shows that there is a lot of consensus and a lot of

:27:10. > :27:10.people who want to support them to make sure that the UK space industry

:27:11. > :27:27.can realise its potential. Thank you can realise its potential. Thank you

:27:28. > :27:31.Madam Deputy Speaker. I havd got a lot to thank the honourable member,

:27:32. > :27:36.my honourable friend from Cdntral Ayrshire and Glasgow North four

:27:37. > :27:41.Anybody who has been observhng me has seen me smiling broadly, this is

:27:42. > :27:46.an incredibly exciting opportunity, as that young child, playing with

:27:47. > :27:52.happened. How exciting to bd here in detachable parts, working ott how

:27:53. > :27:57.happened. How exciting to bd here in the chamber today ska sing the

:27:58. > :28:02.future of space policy. What an opportunity, it is a shame there is

:28:03. > :28:07.so much space on the benches. I will try and avoid the puns and conduct

:28:08. > :28:14.myself with some gravity in this debate. LAUGHTER

:28:15. > :28:22.But I do want to talk about the exciting opportunities. It hs

:28:23. > :28:26.innovation and the skills rdquired that I want to talk about most.

:28:27. > :28:29.There are so many wonders in space and so many things we can ldarn in

:28:30. > :28:35.space that we can't comprehdnd at this moment in time. Without the

:28:36. > :28:41.investment that honourable Lembers including for Hartlepool was just

:28:42. > :28:45.talking about, without the investment in taking the stdp to

:28:46. > :28:52.make sure we have access to learning those things, how can we hope to

:28:53. > :28:56.take full advantage of developing as a race in the fullest way possible?

:28:57. > :29:05.There are stars out there that 500 times bigger our sun. How mtch do we

:29:06. > :29:12.know at this point in time? BC3 3 Is a star with the biggest electrical

:29:13. > :29:14.current ever detected in thd universe. Fantastic opportunities to

:29:15. > :29:22.find out how it we learn about how we conduct our

:29:23. > :29:25.lives and protect our planet. I am stunned to find out there is a

:29:26. > :29:29.gigantic rain cloud which is not just the size... Floating in space,

:29:30. > :29:35.this thing. Not just the size of the this thing. Not just the size of the

:29:36. > :29:39.Pacific Ocean or whatever btt 100,000 times larger than the sun.

:29:40. > :29:44.That is an amazing thing to comprehend. We don't know enough

:29:45. > :29:50.about these things. We do know that we have to take steps, and hnvest. I

:29:51. > :29:55.would like to mention a couple of lines about the Scottish Government

:29:56. > :30:01.position because we see hugd potential in Scotland for the space

:30:02. > :30:04.industry and they and I are pleased on behalf of the UK Governmdnt and

:30:05. > :30:08.Civil Aviation Authority, bdcause that is something we should do

:30:09. > :30:14.jointly, looking at this opportunity. They are committed to

:30:15. > :30:18.supporting innovation and industry and recognise the contributhon of

:30:19. > :30:23.science in a sustainable economy. The Honourable Member for H`rtlepool

:30:24. > :30:33.was talking about the opportunities therefore us. Scotland has 06% of

:30:34. > :30:38.space industry employees, it is an average growing 7.5% per ye`r, these

:30:39. > :30:43.are encouraging figures and we must do what we can. To make mord of

:30:44. > :30:50.that. So we are committed to supporting science and technology

:30:51. > :30:53.development in education so there is also a recruitment exercise in

:30:54. > :30:56.making sure there are Members to join the advisory Council and

:30:57. > :31:03.engaging in the world science sector. They are currently

:31:04. > :31:06.advertising for the post whhch is a credible thing to do and it is right

:31:07. > :31:10.just now. There are lots th`t the Scottish Government will continue to

:31:11. > :31:16.do, investing in four science do, investing in four science

:31:17. > :31:20.centres as well as science festivals across Scotland to promote science

:31:21. > :31:23.as a career for young peopld. That is where I want to go into lore

:31:24. > :31:26.detail, because one of the things I was passionate about in the

:31:27. > :31:31.Highlands in my previous career as a Highlands in my previous career as a

:31:32. > :31:34.counsellor, was about getting young people interested and lifting their

:31:35. > :31:40.sights to see the opportunities that are available, not just for us as a

:31:41. > :31:43.set of countries in these islands, but also for themselves, to go into

:31:44. > :31:49.rewarding build something important for

:31:50. > :31:54.themselves. As a new council eight years ago I saw an advert that had

:31:55. > :31:58.been put out by the European Space Agency calling for the next

:31:59. > :32:01.generation of recruits to come forward, as an enthusiastic

:32:02. > :32:03.counsellor I thought I would put out a press conference to encourage

:32:04. > :32:09.highlanders to come was disappointed that it was met

:32:10. > :32:14.with scepticism from my colleagues on the council and they thotght it

:32:15. > :32:18.was a mad idea that I should encourage highland children to get

:32:19. > :32:20.involved in the space industry. How desperately disappointed was I at

:32:21. > :32:25.highlighted to me the need to make a that time at thereafter

:32:26. > :32:35.highlighted to me the need to make a change in people's attitudes.

:32:36. > :32:41.-- at their attitudes. Therd is a skills Academy starting in the

:32:42. > :32:45.Highlands which brings together organisations such as the Hhghlands

:32:46. > :32:54.and Islands enterprise, the Highland Council, and a range of private

:32:55. > :32:58.engineering firms as well as other non-government operatives in the

:32:59. > :33:03.Highlands. Encouraging young people from preschool, through thehr

:33:04. > :33:06.education, and beyond, to t`ke advantage of the opportunitx of

:33:07. > :33:14.these skills which directly transfer, not just incident`lly into

:33:15. > :33:18.the aerospace industry, but actually to and from oil and gas and

:33:19. > :33:23.renewable energy sectors, these can be transferred. There are enormous

:33:24. > :33:27.opportunities by embracing this into the future. I hope that in future in

:33:28. > :33:33.the Highlands attitudes will be changed. There is a lot of work to

:33:34. > :33:36.be done. In this Chamber, in the Chamber in Holyrood and all of the

:33:37. > :33:40.devolved administrations, to make sure we get the word out to young

:33:41. > :33:48.people to raise their sights and look for another tuna tea there I

:33:49. > :33:49.am grateful for my honourable friend from South Ayrshire for raising the

:33:50. > :33:57.fact that Helen Sharman was the first astronaut from Britain in

:33:58. > :33:59.space, because that is an ilportant message to repeat. Because ht is

:34:00. > :34:07.important that we encourage girls and women to consider the

:34:08. > :34:11.opportunities here. Tim peat is a fantastic ambassador for sp`ce, I

:34:12. > :34:21.have great respect for what he has done already in a short perhod of

:34:22. > :34:25.time. -- Tim Peake. But imagine if he had been Tina Peake is the if

:34:26. > :34:31.that message went out to yotng girls and women, because there ard

:34:32. > :34:35.systemic problems in our culture of encouraging young girls and women

:34:36. > :34:38.into engineering just now that must be tackled. I would call on the

:34:39. > :34:46.Government to join with me `nd others to make sure that we change

:34:47. > :34:48.that attitude over the coming years. 11th ascent of engineers in the

:34:49. > :34:52.sector are women, but 21% of engineering graduates focusdd on the

:34:53. > :34:55.sector are women, the lowest sector are women, the lowest

:34:56. > :34:57.percentage female employment rate in the sector in Europe and thd lowest

:34:58. > :35:03.retention rate in Europe when there are significant skills

:35:04. > :35:10.shortages at every level of the industry. We have heard abott the

:35:11. > :35:13.fact that many people aren't aware of the opportunities in the space

:35:14. > :35:23.sector or indeed the aerosp`ce sector. I was delighted yesterday to

:35:24. > :35:31.meet a woman called Bridget Day the deputy programme director for the

:35:32. > :35:37.aerospace exploitation programme. I would like to read something that

:35:38. > :35:42.she said, she said she had worked as an engineer in the aerospacd

:35:43. > :35:45.industry for nearly 40 years and worked for 30 years in the supply

:35:46. > :35:48.chain for a heat exchange manufacturer in Wolverhampton,

:35:49. > :35:52.starting as an apprentice and becoming an engineering dirdctor.

:35:53. > :35:55.Their personal experience is that there has been little progrdss in

:35:56. > :36:03.encouraging women into engineering and she currently leads a tdam of

:36:04. > :36:08.engineers helping with new technologies. In a team of 24 there

:36:09. > :36:13.is only one other woman. Th`t is a shocking figure, really. Whdn you

:36:14. > :36:18.think about that. That is shocking that that is happening. What she

:36:19. > :36:25.says, I quote, I know that engineering is considered dhfficult,

:36:26. > :36:28.dirty by the general public meaning that young people are encouraged

:36:29. > :36:36.away from engineering, thinking that it is something not for the future.

:36:37. > :36:43.The increasingly green views, building on green belt and the

:36:44. > :36:50.industry is not what my expdrience is, I have a varied working life and

:36:51. > :36:52.every day something different deeply interested in solving probldms with

:36:53. > :36:57.new ways of thinking, new possibilities. The amount of new

:36:58. > :37:03.possibilities is better than ever. And she has capitalised this bit,

:37:04. > :37:05.and now is a great time to become an engineer. We are very short of

:37:06. > :37:11.engineers. As a woman in engineers. As a woman in

:37:12. > :37:15.engineering, I am often the only woman in the room, usually only 5%

:37:16. > :37:17.of women even at a large evdnt, and there is an assumption that I'm the

:37:18. > :37:27.secretary not the boss. I rdputation is never a shoe and like a lan's. I

:37:28. > :37:33.always have to earn it. -- never assumed. One of the things that

:37:34. > :37:38.could address the issue and I have been allowed to ask two questions

:37:39. > :37:44.this morning, and I think the Government needs to target girls

:37:45. > :37:50.only schools and interest them in the engineering industries `s well.

:37:51. > :37:55.I thank the Honourable Membdr for his point, and the substanthve point

:37:56. > :38:02.about engaging young girls `nd women in the industry is important, and I

:38:03. > :38:06.will continue to repeat this in this Chamber until we get it right, it is

:38:07. > :38:13.something we need to tackle together to make sure they are able... Would

:38:14. > :38:18.my honourable friend agree that one of the serious issues that really

:38:19. > :38:29.has not been taken up is th`t we have a major shortage now of STEM

:38:30. > :38:36.qualified teachers, and the industry can offer more lucrative wages, --

:38:37. > :38:41.until it can offer more lucrative wages it will impact the nulber

:38:42. > :38:44.girls coming through. I thank my honourable friend and she is right,

:38:45. > :38:52.education is the key. I mentioned the science skills Academy to tackle

:38:53. > :38:55.not just... Influencing children as they are developing and givhng them

:38:56. > :39:00.opportunities but essentially to try to reach out to society in general,

:39:01. > :39:05.to say to parents and grandparents, you need to talk about this but also

:39:06. > :39:11.to education professionals `nd those who make investments, that lead to

:39:12. > :39:17.recruitment of those professionals, this is something that has to be

:39:18. > :39:19.taken incredibly seriously. There are stakeholder activities going on

:39:20. > :39:31.at the moment which are to be encouraged. The women in sp`ce jobs

:39:32. > :39:38.resource encourages women into engineering jobs. And the committee

:39:39. > :39:41.was established in 2009. We need to increase public awareness of the

:39:42. > :39:46.space industry and its valud to the economy. We need to increashng gauge

:39:47. > :39:49.meant with young people through projects like the Scottish space

:39:50. > :39:54.School and there will no dotbt be others that are

:39:55. > :39:58.need to make sure those are going on. Again I would support c`lls for

:39:59. > :40:02.the need to concentrate funding on research and development. Wd

:40:03. > :40:07.absolutely need to stop thinking about what's happening

:40:08. > :40:15.start thinking about opporttnities for tomorrow. We need to work to

:40:16. > :40:21.increase here support -- pedr support. I will finish by qtoting

:40:22. > :40:26.Professor Alan Smith, head of the Department of space and physics at

:40:27. > :40:36.an event with the Scottish Government and Civil Aviation

:40:37. > :40:42.Authority. He said, Scotland has embraced space, space beers at home

:40:43. > :40:45.in Scotland and let's make sure that all of our children get the

:40:46. > :40:52.opportunity to feel at home in space too.

:40:53. > :41:01.Thank you. It's a pleasure to follow my honourable friend from Inverness.

:41:02. > :41:08.He made some excellent points at the end there about equality. And the

:41:09. > :41:12.industry in terms of women. As a civil engineer I chime with that

:41:13. > :41:18.same, I lack of women. It is doing same, I lack of women. It is doing

:41:19. > :41:22.its best to remedy that buyhng caging in schools. My honourable

:41:23. > :41:25.friend also saw yesterday and today, I great advocate for technology and

:41:26. > :41:34.his enthusiasm shone through in his speech. I would like to also

:41:35. > :41:41.congratulate the honourable Members for South Ayrshire and

:41:42. > :41:47.for settling this debate in a timely way. I was with a confession,

:41:48. > :41:52.anybody that knows me personally will probably be somewhat is a

:41:53. > :41:54.prized I will be speaking in this space oriented debate. When Mike the

:41:55. > :42:03.other Members, when I was growing fascination with space. Scidnce

:42:04. > :42:12.fiction movies didn't do it for me, and although I was born in 0970I am

:42:13. > :42:21.still to watch the Star Wars movies! Shame shame! At least that shows

:42:22. > :42:25.they are listening! I'm concerned that my honourable friend as not

:42:26. > :42:30.watch the early Star Wars movies but is he suggesting that he has watched

:42:31. > :42:39.the later ones? I have seen one or two... I was taking my children for

:42:40. > :42:49.a family activity. I couldn't tell you what happened in them. The good

:42:50. > :42:54.news is, there will be no more puns in my speech. What I would say is

:42:55. > :42:57.that I appreciate the importance of science and technology in commercial

:42:58. > :43:07.aspects related to the spacd industry. I am right behind the

:43:08. > :43:12.proposals for the UK Governlent to your focus for the space sector in

:43:13. > :43:20.Europe. I applaud the ambithous growth targets as well. Why else am

:43:21. > :43:26.I speaking in this debate? Ht is great to be able to speak in a

:43:27. > :43:30.debate where it is not precdded by the words, there will now bd a

:43:31. > :43:32.three-minute limit on speeches. Some people are probably hoping H do have

:43:33. > :43:44.a three-minute limit! The real reason I'm participating in

:43:45. > :43:47.today's debate, is for the `irport to be the space Port Hub. While it

:43:48. > :43:52.is not my own, I can see the bdnefits

:43:53. > :43:58.it will bring to the surrounding area in general and I have lany

:43:59. > :44:07.constituents employed in thd error space industry. We have a 14%

:44:08. > :44:14.unemployment rate in UK and only recently 200 skilled manufacturing

:44:15. > :44:21.jobs from a factory in have gone. So you'll be most welcome in mx area.

:44:22. > :44:29.Although it is an unemploymdnt rate, Escher has got a great pedigree for

:44:30. > :44:36.engineering, both within my concision sea and the neighbouring

:44:37. > :44:39.constituency. The honourabld member for Central Ayrshire, I know that

:44:40. > :44:48.spaceport. We have heard th`t nearby these will expand to serve `s a new

:44:49. > :44:55.Glasgow, has space technology companies. So, these are re`l

:44:56. > :44:57.advantages, if Prestwick was chosen. His general we also know th`t the UK

:44:58. > :45:02.space agency was clear, these space agency was clear, these

:45:03. > :45:10.activities are much more th`n direct space technology, it covers climate

:45:11. > :45:15.change, analysis as well as other research. As well as materi`ls, and

:45:16. > :45:20.plasma physics. I realise, there have already been successful

:45:21. > :45:27.partnerships in operation, there is no doubt that if Prestwick hs chosen

:45:28. > :45:30.then that allows the linkagds, with a Scottish universities that are

:45:31. > :45:37.among the best in the world, so that is our vantage point Prestwhck. If

:45:38. > :45:41.we look at transport infrastructure, there is a rare harbour nearby,

:45:42. > :45:48.Prestwick has got a rail hall and a close link to motorway network. For

:45:49. > :45:55.me in the current short list, Prestwick is easily the most

:45:56. > :46:04.error space all-party group, one of error space all-party group, one of

:46:05. > :46:09.the discussion points. Was dducation and having kids prepared in stem and

:46:10. > :46:11.technology design. I would say that the Scottish Government is laking

:46:12. > :46:16.great strides, in terms of the great strides, in

:46:17. > :46:16.curriculum for excellence, `nd the local authority that I was

:46:17. > :46:23.previously a member of, has a stem previously a member

:46:24. > :46:26.programme for primary schools and programme for primary schools and

:46:27. > :46:30.secondary schools. In Scotl`nd there business enterprise

:46:31. > :46:33.secondary schools. In Scotl`nd there is a wide implications in tdrms of

:46:34. > :46:38.appreciating that school le`vers must have a greater underst`nding of

:46:39. > :46:46.the working environment, wh`t would be expected of them, and crtcially

:46:47. > :46:52.that it is not to get into full time higher education. If you colbine

:46:53. > :46:59.that, again, Scotland and Prestwick in particular has got a head start

:47:00. > :47:06.in terms of trying to recovdr in stem and technology design. Ayrshire

:47:07. > :47:12.is also home to a campus th`t has one recent awards, working hn

:47:13. > :47:13.partnership with industry. @n excellent example of this, hs a

:47:14. > :47:19.partnership in order to cre`te partnership in order to cre`te

:47:20. > :47:26.technicians because industrx technicians because industrx

:47:27. > :47:29.recognises, there is not enough qualified expertise available for

:47:30. > :47:41.the maintenance of the wind turbines. Another facet for Ayrshire

:47:42. > :47:42.College, is a ?53 million c`mpus, due

:47:43. > :47:44.see fantastic opportunities for see fantastic opportunities for

:47:45. > :47:48.have heard that Prestwick h`s got have heard that Prestwick h`s got

:47:49. > :47:56.UK, it does not suffer problems in UK, it does not suffer problems in

:47:57. > :47:59.the way that others do elsewhere. Also, at present there is not enough

:48:00. > :48:04.commercial flights from Prestwick, commercial flights from Prestwick,

:48:05. > :48:11.capacity all logistical isstes, that does mean is that there are no

:48:12. > :48:14.capacity all logistical isstes, that prevented from being a spacdport. In

:48:15. > :48:21.fact, let us face it, if thdre is a spaceport at Prestwick, it would

:48:22. > :48:25.help some of the costs, being covered by Scottish Governmdnt,

:48:26. > :48:26.Scotland, freeing it up or dlsewhere Scotland, freeing it up or dlsewhere

:48:27. > :48:35.in Scotland. Ayrshire and al Free in Scotland. Ayrshire and al Free

:48:36. > :48:43.centre and is also home to the dark sky project, so clear benefhts for a

:48:44. > :48:48.possible location at Prestwhck. If we go to general terms, the Scottish

:48:49. > :48:50.Government is clear, and very supportive and positive abott

:48:51. > :48:55.development in this sector, that was development in this sector, that was

:48:56. > :49:02.demonstrated recently by Fiona has got's attendance, which was held in

:49:03. > :49:03.Glasgow just before Christm`s. The conclusions from this event will be

:49:04. > :49:08.presented to both governments, and presented to both governments, and

:49:09. > :49:16.I'm confident that will unddrline a case. And in general, if I love

:49:17. > :49:17.slightly away from Prestwick although I'm reluctant to do so and

:49:18. > :49:23.motion presented, I would agree I look at the remainder of

:49:24. > :49:25.motion presented, I would agree wholehearted with the motion, is

:49:26. > :49:31.actually seems to be one sector where the UK Government is outlining

:49:32. > :49:33.a positive vision. In the chamber with many colleagues I have often

:49:34. > :49:37.complained with the need for government to spend more money on

:49:38. > :49:43.social justice rather than projects that some people classed as vanity

:49:44. > :49:45.projects, however, what the honourable member from Hartlepool

:49:46. > :49:50.pointed out, there are clear benefits from this investment,

:49:51. > :49:54.benefits that would be long,lasting and it is actually be true that

:49:55. > :49:59.Major Tim peat's Mission cotld inspire another generation of

:50:00. > :50:03.scientists, explorers, and hn order to allow this to continue, ht is

:50:04. > :50:07.quite clear that the governlent has to set guidelines for the fhnal bids

:50:08. > :50:14.for the spaceport submissions, for these two have any chance of being

:50:15. > :50:22.operational by 2018 and thex also ensure that no momentum is lost The

:50:23. > :50:24.final decision, making procdss, it must be transparent, it shotld be

:50:25. > :50:31.nonpolitical and this would allow best value for money in futtre

:50:32. > :50:32.success. I would say, that the government likes to cut purd

:50:33. > :50:37.down that route, they could award it proceed, if they don't want

:50:38. > :50:41.down that route, they could award it to Scotland in general Prestwick. Or

:50:42. > :50:55.even of hands and that will solvd any

:50:56. > :51:00.problems. Thank you and it has been a very interesting debate so far and

:51:01. > :51:04.I thank you, for bringing this through the good auspices of the

:51:05. > :51:09.backbench committee. I had `n interest in space from an e`rly age

:51:10. > :51:14.and it proved most useful, `s this government social and fiscal policy

:51:15. > :51:21.is from another planet and completely alien to me. Howdver we

:51:22. > :51:24.are here, to discuss somethhng that should not be contentious, with a

:51:25. > :51:29.fair amount of unanimity. Lhke a lot of youngsters, I grew up fascinated

:51:30. > :51:35.with the stars, with differdnt planets, and the work of Nasa and

:51:36. > :51:38.other space agencies. I'm stre that I'm not the only member present who

:51:39. > :51:43.either that or a football player. either that or a football player.

:51:44. > :51:51.But you can be sure that wh`t no one was trying to be was an MP. Yet here

:51:52. > :51:53.we all are, astronaut, football ballerina, we have lost out on our

:51:54. > :52:06.childhood dreams but that doesn t mean that we can't help othdr kids

:52:07. > :52:08.to fulfil theirs. This is a dream that many jokes in both girls and

:52:09. > :52:14.boys have, there is something about space that captures the imagination

:52:15. > :52:18.from an early age. Many will not quite reach their dream, but it will

:52:19. > :52:23.undoubtedly lead to a fulfilling career. During the summer rdcess, I

:52:24. > :52:25.visited a primary school in my constituency and more than half of

:52:26. > :52:30.that they wanted to be an astronaut that they wanted to be an

:52:31. > :52:32.when they grew up. I'm sure that members have had a similar dxpress

:52:33. > :52:39.when they have visited local schools, and I expect this number to

:52:40. > :52:44.get even higher, it is important work that is the astronaut Tim peat

:52:45. > :52:50.Speaker, moving onto the economic Speaker, moving onto the economic

:52:51. > :52:57.benefits, it will no doubt surprise people, that in 2012-13, UK industry

:52:58. > :53:04.contributed ?5.1 billion to the economy, the same as always. The

:53:05. > :53:07.latest figures are over ?11 billion and across the UK, it supports

:53:08. > :53:15.68,000 jobs. It is hoped th`t the industry output will grow to 40

:53:16. > :53:19.and a half billion, more th`n 3 and a half billion, more th`n 3

:53:20. > :53:26.companies operate in the market We are talking about the contrhbution

:53:27. > :53:29.that it makes to space exploration, Clyde space produce a number of

:53:30. > :53:38.products that are produced by Nasa and the European Space Agency, and

:53:39. > :53:43.in 24 they contribute ?1.2 lillion, produced for .ca says satellite One

:53:44. > :53:48.of the things I'm particularly proud of, is a product that was jointly

:53:49. > :53:49.funded by Clyde and UK spacd agency funded by Clyde and UK spacd agency

:53:50. > :53:52.and it is the first satellite designed and built in Scotl`nd. It

:53:53. > :53:57.advanced nano satellite ever made has been described as

:53:58. > :53:58.advanced nano satellite ever made and Clyde are rightly

:53:59. > :54:02.innovation. I mention this, it innovation. I mention this,

:54:03. > :54:04.underlines the point that there are companies throughout the UK,

:54:05. > :54:10.not only aid the work of thd UK not only aid the work of

:54:11. > :54:18.space agency but that of thd European Space Agency had N`sa has

:54:19. > :54:18.well. Madam Deputy Speaker ht is important, to see

:54:19. > :54:18.to help the scientists and dngineers to help the scientists and dngineers

:54:19. > :54:24.of tomorrow. But first I wotld like of tomorrow. But first I wotld

:54:25. > :54:26.to make a wider societal pohnt about dreams. I was struck by somdthing

:54:27. > :54:32.with the aerospace industry commie that Lord MP said with a medting

:54:33. > :54:34.with the aerospace industry commie was making the point that in Britain

:54:35. > :54:39.we tend to stifle ambition `nd the young as opposed to supporthng it.

:54:40. > :54:46.For too long a significant section of society and I include myself

:54:47. > :54:47.have had a play it safe, walk before you run, don't get ideas above your

:54:48. > :54:54.but far too slowly, I did claim to but far too slowly, I did claim to

:54:55. > :54:54.have the answers but I think we need to acknowledge that fact, to have

:54:55. > :55:00.opportunity, no matter their the quality of ambition and

:55:01. > :55:04.opportunity, no matter their background. A good start wotld be

:55:05. > :55:07.aerospace to formulate a collective aerospace to

:55:08. > :55:09.strategy and curriculum enh`ncement, that would engage with children

:55:10. > :55:15.career, as I heard there ard many career, as I heard there ard many

:55:16. > :55:16.companies who do good work hn this area, this is an ad hoc approach for

:55:17. > :55:24.children. People have been lucky as children. People have been lucky as

:55:25. > :55:25.we have been fortunate that the mission discovery programme has come

:55:26. > :55:31.for the last two years, this is an for the last two years, this is an

:55:32. > :55:37.educational programme, launched by University of the West of Scotland

:55:38. > :55:40.and the educational trust. @nd provides an exciting opporttnity to

:55:41. > :55:46.15 people to learn from astronaut and other experts and space and

:55:47. > :55:52.sides as well as recruiting 15 paid mentorship positions. Mission

:55:53. > :55:54.discovery recruits, astronatts and scientists and leaders to hdlp train

:55:55. > :55:59.local people studying in thd area. local people studying in thd area.

:56:00. > :56:01.The programme involves studdnts working in areas including working

:56:02. > :56:06.together with experts to formulate together with experts

:56:07. > :56:08.an idea, for experiments th`t can be carried out in space. It is normally

:56:09. > :56:14.the students who benefit, experts also value a time that they

:56:15. > :56:20.In fact the former Nasa astronaut, In fact the former Nasa

:56:21. > :56:20.and president of the space @lliance, and president of the space @lliance,

:56:21. > :56:26.says that it is by far the lost says that it is by far the lost

:56:27. > :56:29.rented and interesting ende`vour, space. The programme was a great

:56:30. > :56:33.success and the students got practical knowledge that aided

:56:34. > :56:34.studies and also made it a real studies and also made it a real

:56:35. > :56:39.addition to the see the of the students. Programmes like

:56:40. > :56:42.discovery, equip the students, to give them a career in the space

:56:43. > :56:48.industry and it is vitally hmportant as we attempt to grow that hndustry.

:56:49. > :56:49.Mission discovery is a fant`stic programme and I would urge other

:56:50. > :56:54.local authorities to try and bring local authorities to try and bring

:56:55. > :56:56.it to the areas. But the potential that exists within the UK space

:56:57. > :57:02.utilised, it will help act `s a industry is huge, and I expdct that

:57:03. > :57:07.utilised, it will help act `s a catalyst to help build towards that

:57:08. > :57:11.potential. To that end I welcome the National space policy, hoping that

:57:12. > :57:14.the government can work with the sector, to improve opportunhties.

:57:15. > :57:19.The growth of the space indtstry should not be viewed in a v`cuum. If

:57:20. > :57:22.we are to achieve the goal of capturing 10% of the global market

:57:23. > :57:30.then this will create real opportunities for us have bden to

:57:31. > :57:33.create 100,000 new jobs, and generate ?40 billion for thd

:57:34. > :57:37.economy. I do have some concerns that the government will fahl to

:57:38. > :57:41.achieve the plans, they havd not hit too many targets of late. To achieve

:57:42. > :57:47.the goals, will have to comlit more public funding and we have seen in

:57:48. > :57:50.other policy areas that the fixation, and the way that this

:57:51. > :57:53.economic mindset will prevent the government from achieving what they

:57:54. > :57:57.have set out in the National space policy. The amount of public

:57:58. > :58:03.spending allocated to the space industry has to improve. 2003 UK

:58:04. > :58:09.Government spending, ranked seventh among all other OECD countrhes.

:58:10. > :58:13.However Madam Deputy Speaker, contrary to my natural insthncts, I

:58:14. > :58:21.will not end with a contribttion on a sour note, I do wish the

:58:22. > :58:26.government well. Having a vhbrant space industry is vitally ilportant

:58:27. > :58:31.to growing the economy, cre`ting jobs and contributing to thd

:58:32. > :58:33.national output. I hope that the Government can contribute to the

:58:34. > :58:42.enthusiasm surrounding the TK space industry. I would like to start this

:58:43. > :58:52.original space man and I'm not original space man and I'm not

:58:53. > :58:56.talking about your ego Garan. I am talking about David Bowie and I m

:58:57. > :59:06.sure the house will join me in sending our condolences to his

:59:07. > :59:10.family. -- Yuri Gagarin. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and therd are

:59:11. > :59:15.things I remember vividly from my childhood, first the excitelent of

:59:16. > :59:20.the power cuts, maybe not so exciting for the industries, but for

:59:21. > :59:23.me as a child, getting out the candles and wandering through the

:59:24. > :59:32.house in darkness always has some great memories. I remember Largaret

:59:33. > :59:41.Thatcher coming to power. And the less said about that the better And

:59:42. > :59:47.I remember space. I remember the space programme. And I remelber the

:59:48. > :59:58.space shuttle programme with great excitement which started in 198 .

:59:59. > :00:03.That excitement actually took off for me when the space shuttle made a

:00:04. > :00:10.surprise visit to the Paris airshow in 1983. For the space shuttle to

:00:11. > :00:16.get to the Paris airshow it had to piggyback on a jumbo jet. I was at

:00:17. > :00:20.primary school in Glasgow at the time and we knew that the jtmbo jet

:00:21. > :00:24.would be flying over at somd point during the morning. We had been told

:00:25. > :00:30.when we heard the jumbo jet we had to stand, quietly put our chairs

:00:31. > :00:38.under the desk, line-up at the door and we would all carefully outside.

:00:39. > :00:43.Of course, all order was ab`ndoned when ever the noise of the jumbo jet

:00:44. > :00:52.was heard. Chairs were thrown, people climbed across desks, people

:00:53. > :01:01.were knocked down. This was the West End of Glasgow. And out we went to

:01:02. > :01:08.see the incredible sight of the space shuttle perched precariously

:01:09. > :01:13.it seemed on the back of thd jumbo. And it was that single event in my

:01:14. > :01:17.childhood that really sparkdd a major interest for me, both in

:01:18. > :01:23.science, technology, but particularly in physics. It was

:01:24. > :01:26.through that that I ended up choosing to study physics at

:01:27. > :01:34.university and eventually bdcoming a physics teacher. The inspir`tion

:01:35. > :01:42.offered by space really strdtches across all aspects of society. I

:01:43. > :01:46.would like to mention anothdr physicist at this point, ard far

:01:47. > :01:51.more famous visitors than mxself. And they've visited as to who has

:01:52. > :01:56.done great work for space, Professor Brian Cox. -- a far more falous

:01:57. > :02:06.. One treat was to see clips of Brian Cox from his wonderful DVDs,

:02:07. > :02:12.wonders of the solar system, wonders of the universe. It never strprised

:02:13. > :02:16.me, the more academic students would be interested, but what was always

:02:17. > :02:23.really surprising to me was that the less academic ones always w`nted to

:02:24. > :02:33.see him as well. And would regularly say, can we stick on that Professor

:02:34. > :02:40.Guy?! They enjoyed that. I was lucky enough to be at the science Museum

:02:41. > :02:43.on the 15th of December for the launch of Tim Peake and there were

:02:44. > :02:50.thousands of schoolchildren there and the enthusiasm and excitement

:02:51. > :02:56.that they showed reminded md greatly after the incident from my childhood

:02:57. > :03:00.with the jumbo jet. And I w`s talking to one of my colleagues a

:03:01. > :03:06.couple of days ago who was `sking me, what's the point of this debate?

:03:07. > :03:12.Is it really that important and what does space exploration mattdr? Well,

:03:13. > :03:19.it is absolutely crucial th`t we have this debate. And it is

:03:20. > :03:27.important to have it at this point. There are three aspects of space

:03:28. > :03:33.exploration that I think ard most important. Firstly, there are only

:03:34. > :03:38.two industry is pushing innovation. Really, through great leaps and

:03:39. > :03:45.bounds, and that is defence and space exploration. Space sphn offs

:03:46. > :03:53.have really found their way into all aspects of everyday life, from

:03:54. > :03:54.materials such as Teflon, solar cells, robotic arms, which have

:03:55. > :04:02.really led the development of prosthetic limbs. Something as basic

:04:03. > :04:06.as a memory foam mattress w`s developed as a result of having

:04:07. > :04:15.questions for astronauts during take-off. And there is also the

:04:16. > :04:21.story about the pen, the sp`ce pen that Nasa spend money developing. Of

:04:22. > :04:29.course the cosmonauts at thd time decided that the pencil works just

:04:30. > :04:32.as well in zero gravity conditions. But there are wide ranging

:04:33. > :04:45.applications but space technology. The damping system as part of the

:04:46. > :04:51.launch pad has special fluid dampers which make sure that the latnch can

:04:52. > :04:55.take place in a stable manndr. When the millennium Bridge just down the

:04:56. > :05:00.road experienced such issues in its first couple of days after opening,

:05:01. > :05:05.with the vibrations, it was these same dampers, taken straight from

:05:06. > :05:13.the launch pad of the shuttle provided the solution to its

:05:14. > :05:22.problem. And technologies lhke that happen throughout. So these spin off

:05:23. > :05:28.technologies don't just imp`ct on our life, they have huge economic

:05:29. > :05:33.benefits and it is important to recognise this. Secondly, the

:05:34. > :05:39.satellites in orbit, they h`ve now become fundamental to the w`y that

:05:40. > :05:44.we live our lives, in fact the largest satellite in orbit hs of

:05:45. > :05:48.course the moon, which is most fundamental to life because with it

:05:49. > :05:55.we get the tides and all sorts of benefits from that in terms of life

:05:56. > :06:02.and life in tidal areas. Very important. Artificial satellites

:06:03. > :06:09.that have been put into orbht provide us with television from

:06:10. > :06:15.around the world, satellite broadcasts, which come to us through

:06:16. > :06:23.geo- stationary satellites hn high Earth orbits. 22,000 miles `bove

:06:24. > :06:27.Earth. I will give way. I al grateful to my honourable friend for

:06:28. > :06:32.giving way. Would she also `gree that there are exciting

:06:33. > :06:35.microsatellite technology opportunities which dramatically

:06:36. > :06:42.reduce the cost of putting satellites into space and c`n still

:06:43. > :06:45.perform functions previouslx carried out by larger machines and on that

:06:46. > :06:51.basis we should invest more in that work? Absolutely. What is not

:06:52. > :06:56.understood greatly is that satellite launches take place very regularly.

:06:57. > :07:00.The next satellite launch is in fact on Sunday and we haven't he`rd much

:07:01. > :07:08.of that in the news. More and more microsatellites provide gre`t

:07:09. > :07:11.service to us. On the point of geo- stationary satellites, of course

:07:12. > :07:17.they were first conceptualised as science fiction by Arthur C Clarke

:07:18. > :07:22.and it reinforces the point I made earlier about the importancd of

:07:23. > :07:31.space and the inspiration that it provides to creative and cultural

:07:32. > :07:37.scenes, and has a knock-on dffect in its application. It is important for

:07:38. > :07:44.to write science fiction because often it provides ideas and

:07:45. > :07:49.sometimes gives the real encouragement for creativitx within

:07:50. > :07:56.the development of such things. Satellites are so important in other

:07:57. > :07:58.areas. As I mentioned, TV, `nd communications, weather and climate

:07:59. > :08:04.monitoring. It was satellitds put into space that first photographed

:08:05. > :08:14.the issues with the pole lids cap and were able to compare photographs

:08:15. > :08:20.from now and 30 years ago which show the real impact of that. Obviously

:08:21. > :08:25.the United Kingdom would have the potential to be part of a world

:08:26. > :08:30.network of satellites in th`t geo- stationary satellites are lhkely to

:08:31. > :08:35.be launched from America, the UAE and Singapore whereas Austr`lia and

:08:36. > :08:40.in the northern hemisphere would be launching polar and sun synchronous

:08:41. > :08:45.and another blatant punt for Prestwick is that we are further

:08:46. > :08:48.north! I thank my honourabld friend for her intervention and of course

:08:49. > :09:00.different areas provide different services no doubt. Possibly the most

:09:01. > :09:05.famous satellite is the Hubble space telescope. I was asked why not just

:09:06. > :09:11.look at the stars from a dark area of the earth like chilli or Hawaii?

:09:12. > :09:17.Well, the Earth's atmospherd is fluid, almost as if you imagine

:09:18. > :09:21.water in a swimming pool and if you try to view images through water,

:09:22. > :09:27.you will get an idea of what it is like trying to view space from the

:09:28. > :09:33.surface of the Earth. So to get out of that water, to get out of the

:09:34. > :09:37.fluid and put the Hubble sp`ce telescope of their

:09:38. > :09:45.which could never be considdred in the past. -- there. The third aspect

:09:46. > :09:48.which is important is the possibility of living in different

:09:49. > :09:56.environments. It was bought for a long time that for life to dxist two

:09:57. > :10:03.things were required, and oxygen rich atmosphere, and liquid water.

:10:04. > :10:07.-- an oxygen rich atmospherd. We have now even seen evidence of life

:10:08. > :10:16.and deep pressures and cold parts of and deep pressures and cold parts of

:10:17. > :10:21.the world. That gives us hope that there may be life in other places

:10:22. > :10:25.even within our own solar sxstem. And it gives us the opportunity to

:10:26. > :10:35.think further afield beyond the constraints of the surface of the

:10:36. > :10:38.Earth in terms of living. Wd have mentioned the astronauts involved

:10:39. > :10:44.already. I actually counted seven British-born astronauts and I may

:10:45. > :10:47.have that number wrong. Two space tourists and a number of thdm moved

:10:48. > :10:56.to the States to pursue thehr career. What is exciting about Helen

:10:57. > :11:01.Sharman and major Tim Peake is that they were both living here hn the UK

:11:02. > :11:05.and that gives great hope for youngsters. What we must not forget

:11:06. > :11:12.is that space travel is extremely dangerous. Two aspects of space

:11:13. > :11:21.travel, the take-off and landing, are particularly dangerous. The

:11:22. > :11:29.Challenger disaster in 1986 where seven astronauts were killed by

:11:30. > :11:33.faulty seals is an example of the danger. Re-entering the atmosphere,

:11:34. > :11:37.I will refer to the fluid again if you can imagine skimming stones of

:11:38. > :11:41.the surface of a lake, that is what it's like trying to get the

:11:42. > :11:47.spaceship back into the atmosphere. The spaceship is to enter a

:11:48. > :11:51.particular angle and speed `nd if you get it wrong it is like skimming

:11:52. > :11:57.stone, it will bounce off the atmosphere. Get it wrong with too

:11:58. > :12:03.steep and entrance and it whll burn up buried quickly, so it is a very

:12:04. > :12:11.precise operation. And again, we saw with the Columbia disaster hn 2 03,

:12:12. > :12:16.the issues with that. When H was at the science Museum with all of those

:12:17. > :12:19.children, the cheers and shouts as the rocket launched, I was not

:12:20. > :12:28.cheering and shouting at th`t point. If you looked at Nasa, sorrx, not

:12:29. > :12:35.Nasa, ground control, they `lso waited until the rocket was into

:12:36. > :12:40.orbit proper until the celebrations really started, and that's the point

:12:41. > :12:45.where it is considered a lot safer. We have to pay tribute to the

:12:46. > :12:55.bravery of these astronauts as well. This is a dangerous job. Albeit

:12:56. > :12:59.glamorous. Tim Peake of course is going to do his space walk tomorrow

:13:00. > :13:07.is my colleague mentioned. He is going to be outside the space

:13:08. > :13:11.station for over six hours `nd this is no small town is that he is

:13:12. > :13:16.undertaking, it is highly tdchnical and dangerous. Really, we whsh him

:13:17. > :13:26.all the very best as he unddrtakes this past tomorrow. -- this task. I

:13:27. > :13:30.have mentioned STEM earlier and I'm pleased to hear so many people

:13:31. > :13:33.talking about the importancd of temporary max subjects and getting

:13:34. > :13:38.girls involved. I will reitdrate my point that in order to get these

:13:39. > :13:41.girls involved, we need to get teachers in place and if we are

:13:42. > :13:46.going to get teachers in pl`ce, we need to have a serious policy of

:13:47. > :13:50.how we are going to attract them teachers will

:13:51. > :13:57.how we are going to attract them from other areas. -- teachers.

:13:58. > :14:03.I was lucky enough to meet ` Nasa astronaut a couple of years ago and

:14:04. > :14:08.he met my schoolchildren, and one of them asked what is it to sttdy to

:14:09. > :14:13.become an astronaut? Any answer they got was great. What he said to them

:14:14. > :14:19.was, it doesn't matter. You must follow what you are passion`te

:14:20. > :14:22.about, either at science, engineering, physics, chemistry

:14:23. > :14:26.biology, medicine, follow what you are passionate about and thdn other

:14:27. > :14:28.things will come on beyond that I think that is an important lessage

:14:29. > :14:38.for our young people, follow something that you are

:14:39. > :14:46.passionate about. Finally, H would ask the Minister, to commit to the

:14:47. > :14:49.space industry. Not just financially, but also in terms of

:14:50. > :14:59.advertising and also in terls of ambition. Let us start as mx

:15:00. > :15:01.colleague from Paisley menthoned, we have to do have the ambition, we

:15:02. > :15:12.have to say to young people for you, this is available to

:15:13. > :15:16.everybody. On the back of Thm Peake's mission that has bedn so

:15:17. > :15:21.inspirational to watch, we really need to get the message out there,

:15:22. > :15:34.that space is open for business So I would call upon the Minister, to

:15:35. > :15:38.make it so. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to

:15:39. > :15:40.congratulate the honourable member for Central Ayrshire, for allowing

:15:41. > :15:46.this debate, along with the committee, and also all honourable

:15:47. > :15:50.members who have made contrhbutions today, they have shown real

:15:51. > :15:55.expertise and passion for the subject. I would also like to join

:15:56. > :15:58.everyone in paying tribute to Major Tim Peake. I think we all w`tched

:15:59. > :16:02.his take-off with fascination and all at the and of last year and I

:16:03. > :16:06.would like to join the rest of the house in wishing him every success

:16:07. > :16:10.over the course of his misshon and in particular his space walk

:16:11. > :16:14.tomorrow. I was particularlx excited today to hear that there ard

:16:15. > :16:17.discussions ongoing about a live link between Parliament and the

:16:18. > :16:24.International Space Station, not least because I would love to hear

:16:25. > :16:31.it in Hansard, ground control to Major Tim. But as a first UK

:16:32. > :16:38.astronaut to join the UK sp`ce Station, his journey is a

:16:39. > :16:41.significant milestone in thhs country is involvement in space

:16:42. > :16:45.exploration and I do hope that this new interest in space exploration

:16:46. > :16:49.and travel inspires young pdople across the country and will help

:16:50. > :16:54.them to pursue careers in science and technology. But, as the

:16:55. > :16:59.honourable member from Glasgow North has just said, it is appropriate to

:17:00. > :17:02.pay tribute to those in this 30th anniversary of the Challengdr

:17:03. > :17:06.disaster, to those who lost their lives in that, particularly to

:17:07. > :17:14.someone who was a teacher, who went into space to inspire young people.

:17:15. > :17:18.So it is the 20th of Januarx I think, that is 30 years since that

:17:19. > :17:26.is asked and I think it is worth paying tribute to them. Tim Peake's

:17:27. > :17:30.achievement is a testament to human ingenuity and progress, and it

:17:31. > :17:34.highlights successful collaboration between government and industry The

:17:35. > :17:39.UK's new National space polhcy that aims to increase UK share of the

:17:40. > :17:43.global space economy to 10% by 030, it is being worked on by

:17:44. > :17:49.specialists, from government, academia and industry. And hts

:17:50. > :17:55.commitment to supporting thd growth of the commercial space sector

:17:56. > :17:57.underpinned by the world-cl`ss academic research that we h`ve here.

:17:58. > :18:01.It is particularly welcome, and we support this kind of partnership

:18:02. > :18:03.from this side of the house and we believe that the government should

:18:04. > :18:09.be doing more of the same in other sectors. And the continued support

:18:10. > :18:13.for the UK space industry is vital. We have heard about the

:18:14. > :18:21.contributions made from manx honourable members, ?11.3 bhllion

:18:22. > :18:29.will stop and it also supports a number of vital public servhces

:18:30. > :18:32.medicine, disaster relief, defence, transport, and actual though we

:18:33. > :18:38.associated with space travel, we have heard on a day-to-day level, it

:18:39. > :18:41.impacts on all of our lives, satellite TV, smartphones. H don't

:18:42. > :18:46.think I would ever leave my house without my Sat Nav. We are

:18:47. > :18:52.benefiting from technology reduced by the UK space industry. It is

:18:53. > :18:56.important to all of our livds and therefore it is important to

:18:57. > :19:00.long-term strategic goal for the sector. It is disappointing to see

:19:01. > :19:04.that the space innovation and growth strategy, reports that the `d hoc

:19:05. > :19:09.nature of government funding for space programmes has hinderdd the

:19:10. > :19:12.strategic planning. And while the government's direct investmdnt in

:19:13. > :19:18.the space industry is welcole, this has to be accompanied by a wider

:19:19. > :19:21.strategy for skilling up future generations and ensuring th`t the

:19:22. > :19:25.UK's leading the way when it comes to research and development. We have

:19:26. > :19:30.heard from many honourable about the importance of the next

:19:31. > :19:34.generation of scientists and engineers, and we have got to equip

:19:35. > :19:40.them with the skills that allow them to undertake the jobs of thd future.

:19:41. > :19:45.Fortunately as we have heard, there is a widespread shortage of skills

:19:46. > :19:49.in times and technology, and the government freeze on 16-19 funding

:19:50. > :19:53.and the adult skills sector combined with the time that colleges are

:19:54. > :20:00.facing a huge upheaval and instability, will not be helping

:20:01. > :20:07.this same. I have particular sympathy with the members who have

:20:08. > :20:13.mentioned the encouragement of women into this sector. We need to think

:20:14. > :20:19.our job women and young girls, that this is an area that can help them.

:20:20. > :20:22.It is an area that isn't a dirty engineering sector but provhdes

:20:23. > :20:27.great opportunities, and I'l concerned that we don't do this

:20:28. > :20:32.early enough. When the young women are around eight to ten, thdy are

:20:33. > :20:36.absolutely infused by science and technology. However by the time they

:20:37. > :20:44.reach 16, enthusiasm has waned considerably. We need to kedp that

:20:45. > :20:51.enthusiasm going. I do belidve that we need to look at the caredrs

:20:52. > :20:55.advice, that we give. And young women from all backgrounds need to

:20:56. > :21:09.being courage to as the honourable member from Inverness said. I will

:21:10. > :21:13.give way. Madam Deputy Speaker I thank the honourable Lindy for

:21:14. > :21:16.allowing me to speak. Can I just say that it is so encouraging in the

:21:17. > :21:22.royal air force to see the number of women pilots, particularly women

:21:23. > :21:27.actually through our fighter pilots, who are not just showing th`t they

:21:28. > :21:35.are the equal of men but soletimes beating them hands down. Obviously

:21:36. > :21:40.as a female myself I would say that quite often in many professhons we

:21:41. > :21:51.don't have dubious good as len but better to prove that we are the

:21:52. > :21:54.equal. We have a target of growing the number of jobs in the space

:21:55. > :22:00.industry, so can the Ministdr tell the house, what assessment he has

:22:01. > :22:05.made of the impact to the ctts to the skills budget on the future

:22:06. > :22:10.success of the UK space indtstry? And what particularly is he doing to

:22:11. > :22:16.encourage young women to enter this area? Also, if our space industry is

:22:17. > :22:21.to prosper globally, we had to be pioneers of the field of research

:22:22. > :22:24.and development, but our public investment in research and

:22:25. > :22:29.development has not kept pace with international competitors. We spend

:22:30. > :22:34.less on research as a share of GDP than France, Germany, the US and

:22:35. > :22:39.China, all of whom are incrdasing their commitment to science and

:22:40. > :22:45.technology. In 2013, UK Govdrnment expenditure on civil space research

:22:46. > :22:50.and development was only seventh amongst OECD countries,

:22:51. > :22:59.some of our competitors. Investment is vital, to science but so is

:23:00. > :23:01.regulation and it is also ilportant that the government regulatory

:23:02. > :23:05.regime creates an environment which enables growth in the satellite in

:23:06. > :23:10.space sector. Can the Minister explain what he's doing to dnable

:23:11. > :23:15.new players such as SMEs and start-ups to access the market? And

:23:16. > :23:20.as with many UK industries, the ability for businesses to access

:23:21. > :23:23.finance remains a concern. Can the Minister explain what he's doing to

:23:24. > :23:29.improve access to finance two companies in the space industry

:23:30. > :23:33.Throughout this debate we h`ve heard much about the achievements of space

:23:34. > :23:39.travel and innovation and the considerable benefits that ht brings

:23:40. > :23:42.to our economy. Tim Peake's journey to the International Space Station

:23:43. > :23:48.has got the potential to inspire a new generation. And reignitd the

:23:49. > :23:54.passion for space exploration that we saw in my generation when we saw

:23:55. > :23:58.a man first on the moon. Thhs government has to capitalisd on this

:23:59. > :24:02.over the coming months and xears, and ensure that it continues to work

:24:03. > :24:10.in partnership with this sector allowing us all to reach for the

:24:11. > :24:15.stars. George Freeman. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, can I thank

:24:16. > :24:20.you, and the Speaker 's offhce, on securing this debate. I think it has

:24:21. > :24:22.demonstrated this house at hts very best, capturing the mood of the

:24:23. > :24:28.nation and and challenging vision for how this

:24:29. > :24:34.country could do so much more in the years ahead in this very exciting

:24:35. > :24:39.field. It is a timely debatd, as a number of honourable members have

:24:40. > :24:44.commented, as Major Tim Peake floats in orbit above us looking down, and

:24:45. > :24:52.tomorrow conducts the very historic and very serious space walk in space

:24:53. > :24:55.above us. He is of course the first British European Space Agency

:24:56. > :24:58.astronaut and the first British astronaut to go into the

:24:59. > :25:02.International Space Station. I think it is timely as a number of other

:25:03. > :25:08.members have commented as wdll this week, given the sad passing of the

:25:09. > :25:12.iconic David Bowie whose lyrics provide the backdrop to

:25:13. > :25:16.generation 's childhood. And captured at the time of the Apollo

:25:17. > :25:21.missions, the existential challenge and the opportunity of pushhng the

:25:22. > :25:25.boundaries of space and timd. And culture, and that provides H think a

:25:26. > :25:34.rather extraordinary and unpredictable backdrop this week to

:25:35. > :25:39.this moment in space. I risd as a member of the coolest consthtuency

:25:40. > :25:43.in the country, because Davhd Bowie played in my constituency, lived in

:25:44. > :25:46.my constituency and we are hoping that the bandstand where he played

:25:47. > :25:55.will be saved and restored properly but at the moment it is not being.

:25:56. > :26:00.Well I'm very grateful and glad that the honourable member for Bdckenham

:26:01. > :26:05.got to stand and speak. But I think, that this debate, and this story had

:26:06. > :26:11.this discussion, is about something more, than simply, the spacd

:26:12. > :26:16.endeavour on its own. It is about the business, ?11.8 billion,

:26:17. > :26:20.employing 35,000 highly skilled people. It is about extraordinary

:26:21. > :26:26.technology, communications, rocketry, engineering. I'm delighted

:26:27. > :26:33.to confirm, it is about an `ctivist industrial policy, supporting

:26:34. > :26:37.leading technologies. I do pay tribute to the work of Paul Tracy

:26:38. > :26:41.and David Willetts in the other place, who was instrumental in

:26:42. > :26:44.securing the ?80 million with a chance before the International

:26:45. > :26:49.Space Station which was crucial to securing Tim Peake's roll and indeed

:26:50. > :26:54.for securing the money for the reaction engines programme. It is

:26:55. > :27:02.about science, not just in space, but solar and Earth science,

:27:03. > :27:05.rocketry, engineering, optics, this is a deep science project to inspire

:27:06. > :27:10.all. It is about women in science, Doctor Helen Sharman, the fhrst

:27:11. > :27:17.British woman astronaut in space and of course the Italian, who was the

:27:18. > :27:20.first woman, Holland Europe`n Space Agency, who did inspiring work and

:27:21. > :27:26.has become something of a ldgend and a role model for girls and women in

:27:27. > :27:30.science. It is also about otr perception and consciousness of our

:27:31. > :27:33.environmental fragility, and that photo did indeed change perceptions

:27:34. > :27:39.about the fragility of the darth's ecosystem. It is about geopolitics,

:27:40. > :27:46.who could imagine, from those appallingly dark days of in

:27:47. > :27:49.Continental ballistic missile threats, -- intercourse little

:27:50. > :27:51.ballistic missile threats, we now have a space station with Alericans,

:27:52. > :27:59.Russians, it is about definhng a new common space for all, and about a

:28:00. > :28:04.new approach to our defence and security, through commonly the ship.

:28:05. > :28:09.It is indeed I think, not a subject I get to speak much about, but

:28:10. > :28:16.today's debate makes it possible. It is about mankind's destiny.

:28:17. > :28:23.To imagine and explore and lake possible whole new worlds and

:28:24. > :28:26.opportunities. I would just add this, it is also about the power of

:28:27. > :28:37.ambitious, positive, global, oppose it, and global leadership. ,-

:28:38. > :28:43.purposeful leadership. And get a better politics from us all. Nobody

:28:44. > :28:49.spoke better to that than JFK in his inspiring inaugural address in 960

:28:50. > :28:52.when he famously asked, ask not my fellow Americans what America can do

:28:53. > :28:59.for you but what you can do for America. In a moment that is

:29:00. > :29:02.difficult to remember now, `t the height of the Cold War in W`shington

:29:03. > :29:10.he embarked on a mission internationalism and two ye`rs

:29:11. > :29:13.later, in his Apollo speech as other Members referenced, announcdd that

:29:14. > :29:18.America chooses to go to thd moon not because it was easy but because

:29:19. > :29:22.it was hard and in the spirht of internationalism and appealhng to

:29:23. > :29:30.the best instincts of mankind. It is a beautiful thing that everx minute

:29:31. > :29:37.and hour and day in space is in space, on the moon, mankind came to

:29:38. > :29:41.the moon in a spirit of freddom and peace and it captures we want to

:29:42. > :29:45.achieve with our society. It is for those reasons that the Primd

:29:46. > :29:50.Minister asked that we harndss the power of Tim Peake's mission to

:29:51. > :29:54.inspire the next generation of engineers and bring the country

:29:55. > :29:58.together. We all found it dhfficult to avoid the excitement associated

:29:59. > :30:03.with his launch, and the huge excitement of the first British

:30:04. > :30:09.astronaut at the space stathon and that is why we held

:30:10. > :30:13.Edinburgh, Cardiff, London, Belfast and at discoveries enters throughout

:30:14. > :30:19.the UK and that parliament. The science Museum attracted allost

:30:20. > :30:21.11,000 visitors, and if this year exhilaration of the 5000 plts

:30:22. > :30:28.primary schoolchildren translate should into an increase in future

:30:29. > :30:35.scientists then the mission will have already achieved its goal. 3.8

:30:36. > :30:39.million people watched his docking with the space station in the

:30:40. > :30:43.evening. The Government will provide ?3 million of support to thd

:30:44. > :30:48.education and engagement programme around the mission, and we have been

:30:49. > :30:53.lauded as the country going most to promote that educational outreach.

:30:54. > :31:03.We will measure whether the excitement does encourage young

:31:04. > :31:09.people to take up temporary max subjects. This is the first such

:31:10. > :31:13.study, research into the Apollo effect since the 70s. The Thm Peake

:31:14. > :31:19.mission is possible because of a decision made at the 2012 Etropean

:31:20. > :31:25.Space Agency Council meeting with David Willetts, and we joindd the

:31:26. > :31:30.International Space Station and the related European programme for life

:31:31. > :31:46.and physical sciences. We m`de a further investment in 2014. It was

:31:47. > :31:48.in total over ?80 million which is substantially good value. It is a

:31:49. > :31:59.testament to our investment in science. Tim Peake, and a Rtssian

:32:00. > :32:10.commander. It is early days and assessments of our involvemdnt are

:32:11. > :32:13.ongoing. Subsequent experimdnts undertaken on the space station are

:32:14. > :32:18.undertaken on the basis of science excellence. This is a massive set of

:32:19. > :32:24.international experiments in space. In the most

:32:25. > :32:29.UK won over 10% of awards for experiments although UK involvement

:32:30. > :32:37.in the space station is 5% of European costs, so we are ptnching

:32:38. > :32:43.above our weight. 40-80 British scientists are involved. It is also

:32:44. > :32:48.about infrastructure such as weather forecasting, satellite navigation

:32:49. > :32:53.and television. Space technologies are used to tackle global

:32:54. > :33:03.challenges. Satellites can tackle illegal fishing and safe

:33:04. > :33:09.implementation of unmanned vehicles. Over half of the essential climate

:33:10. > :33:12.variables needed to underst`nd climate change derived from

:33:13. > :33:16.satellite observations. The UK space sector is undoubtedly a massive and

:33:17. > :33:20.growing success story. Therd are real prospects for young people

:33:21. > :33:30.inspired by Tim Peake and the Rosetta mission. We have a strong

:33:31. > :33:35.and vibrant space economy. ?11. billion to the UK economy, `nd it is

:33:36. > :33:40.growing at around 8% per ye`r, three times pasta than the averagd

:33:41. > :33:45.non-finance sector. An incrddibly highly skilled workforce of 37, 00

:33:46. > :33:50.people, half of which have `t least a first degree. And in addition to

:33:51. > :34:00.those jobs there are more than two for everyone in the wider economy.

:34:01. > :34:07.It has a general value added higher than the UK average so refldcting

:34:08. > :34:09.this importance to the UK, the Secretary of State for business

:34:10. > :34:13.innovation and skills launched a national space policy on thd 13th of

:34:14. > :34:17.December to coincide with the Tim Peake mission and it showcases how

:34:18. > :34:26.deeply space now impacts on our daily lives, not least in s`tellite

:34:27. > :34:30.information but it describes the way in which we deliver national

:34:31. > :34:31.security and essential publhc services and prosperity and spells

:34:32. > :34:38.out how the space agency has brought together the roles and

:34:39. > :34:43.responsibilities of 17 organisations and other partners like resdarch

:34:44. > :34:50.councils and Innovate UK. Space-based activity is a long-term

:34:51. > :34:51.endeavour with international collaboration, industrial

:34:52. > :34:58.investment, and considerabld planning at its heart. Stabhlity is

:34:59. > :35:01.important and we are committed as a Government to seeing this through

:35:02. > :35:05.and putting in place a policy landscape is a port investmdnt. Our

:35:06. > :35:11.involvement in space in the UK ranges from fundamental

:35:12. > :35:17.understandings of the universe to protecting our planet and stpporting

:35:18. > :35:20.research which leads to UK companies launching entirely new multh-million

:35:21. > :35:25.pounds telecommunication satellites. 25% of the world's telecommtnication

:35:26. > :35:35.satellites are built in the UK substantially. Earth observ`tion

:35:36. > :35:41.data was critical for example in the recent flooding. This is an exciting

:35:42. > :35:50.time for space, in 2016 the UK will build the main experiment on the

:35:51. > :35:55.Plato mission searching for new Earths orbiting stars. And we will

:35:56. > :36:00.have contracts for a number of UK companies. We are also lookhng

:36:01. > :36:04.meeting of the European Space Agency meeting

:36:05. > :36:10.when we will negotiate to ensure that the UK plays an influential

:36:11. > :36:14.part and fully benefits frol the European Space Agency progr`mmes. In

:36:15. > :36:19.particular, the biomass expdriment which will calculate the capacity of

:36:20. > :36:24.the world's forests to stord carbon. As well as improving our abhlity to

:36:25. > :36:29.control climate change it also offers a considerable opportunity is

:36:30. > :36:35.UK companies can win contracts to host the experiment. There will be a

:36:36. > :36:42.joint UK and Japanese mission to mercury using an electric propulsion

:36:43. > :36:47.engine manufactured by the TK firm Kinetic. And the UK has become a

:36:48. > :36:52.satellites and cost-effective leader in the manufacture of small

:36:53. > :36:56.satellites and cost-effective launches by piggybacking on other

:36:57. > :37:00.satellites in a competitive market which is not yet sustainabld but

:37:01. > :37:04.growing fast and it is conndcted to the growth of commercial

:37:05. > :37:07.constellations of tens or even hundreds of mass produced s`tellites

:37:08. > :37:12.which provide ubiquitous communications across the globe or

:37:13. > :37:17.near real-time imagery from low Earth orbits. We believe colmercial

:37:18. > :37:21.space flight is a market whhch when combined with the emerging trend for

:37:22. > :37:27.large constellations of satdllites could provide a cumulative dconomic

:37:28. > :37:32.benefit to the UK of ?20 billion by 2030. It will provide long-term

:37:33. > :37:35.service and manufacturing jobs and stimulate high-tech growth. This

:37:36. > :37:42.includes exciting developments the single stage to orbit l`unchers

:37:43. > :37:47.which have been pioneered bx reaction engines, a rapidly growing

:37:48. > :37:51.company in Oxfordshire. This is the context for the UK to explore launch

:37:52. > :37:55.capability. There is at least a two stage process. The first part of the

:37:56. > :38:01.ambition is for the UK to bdcome the European hub of commercial space

:38:02. > :38:09.flight and related technologies The initial focus is on creating the

:38:10. > :38:13.necessary framework to allow commercial suborbital space flight

:38:14. > :38:17.alongside civilian and military airspace operations. Alongshde this

:38:18. > :38:21.it is the Government intenthon to select the preferred location for a

:38:22. > :38:27.UK spaceport to operate horhzontal commercial space planes. We are

:38:28. > :38:31.closely examining what the process will look like to ensure th`t it is

:38:32. > :38:34.fair, transparent and robust and we will draw on existing appro`ches to

:38:35. > :38:40.appraisal and ensure that the preferred location meets kex

:38:41. > :38:44.criteria. That it can delivdr a spaceport technically capable of

:38:45. > :38:50.operating horizontal planes, and commercially viable, able to ensure

:38:51. > :38:53.the safety of the uninvolved public, taking into account potenti`l

:38:54. > :38:56.environmental impacts, and delivering local and nation`l

:38:57. > :39:01.economic growth. These critdria are likely to form the core of `ny

:39:02. > :39:08.selection process although we have not settled on final criterha. The

:39:09. > :39:09.minister is outlining an exciting programme of opportunities `nd

:39:10. > :39:15.economic from a number of Members today, the

:39:16. > :39:19.need to encourage girls and young women to get involved in thd

:39:20. > :39:21.to the Government benches and do to the Government benches and do

:39:22. > :39:26.something practical about encouraging that? I certainly will.

:39:27. > :39:35.There are a number initiative is in place but I have not had tile to go

:39:36. > :39:41.through them. I was going to touch on some of the key point is that

:39:42. > :39:45.honourable Members have madd. Developing a UK spaceport and

:39:46. > :39:52.commercial suborbital operation are also crucial to building thd

:39:53. > :39:59.capability for a UK launch of small satellites from the UK. I w`nted to

:40:00. > :40:02.touch on some of the key pohnts that honourable Members have madd. I

:40:03. > :40:05.wanted to congratulate the Lember for Central Ayrshire. Her

:40:06. > :40:12.introductory speech was laid out beautifully. I was delighted that

:40:13. > :40:17.she characterised me as a mhnister willing to go where no minister had

:40:18. > :40:20.gone before. And the Ministdr for Bracknell was quick on this and has

:40:21. > :40:24.been a leading advocate for the space committee and it is great to

:40:25. > :40:28.see cross-party support for this project across the house. A number

:40:29. > :40:35.of colleagues particular from importance of the Scottish cluster.

:40:36. > :40:40.In this field as well as others Scotland does indeed have a powerful

:40:41. > :40:45.cluster. Despite a number of very powerful bid is being made from

:40:46. > :40:50.Scotland and Wales and Cornwall you would not expect me to pre-dmpt the

:40:51. > :40:54.process of selecting sites, but I can assure honourable Members we

:40:55. > :40:59.will be doing the process properly, fairly, openly and against proper

:41:00. > :41:04.criteria and your bids have been heard loudly today. I wanted to

:41:05. > :41:08.address key questions that have been raised. There was a question about

:41:09. > :41:12.how strongly we prioritise this and I hope my comments setting out our

:41:13. > :41:16.commitment and those commitlents set out in the space strategy rdcently

:41:17. > :41:21.launched go some way to dealing with that issue. It is a question of

:41:22. > :41:24.research funding. The Chancdllor announced the historic ring fenced

:41:25. > :41:27.increased commitment to scidnce capital and revenue and the

:41:28. > :41:34.Government is in the process now of working through with the research

:41:35. > :41:37.councils how that funding whll be allocated to different projdcts and

:41:38. > :41:43.we will shortly make announcements on how we see that being taken

:41:44. > :41:47.forward. There were questions about growth and what we are doing to

:41:48. > :41:52.ensure joined up strategies for this sector. We are working widely with

:41:53. > :41:56.the industry to identify kex markets to deliver main growth. The space

:41:57. > :42:01.leadership Council, jointly chaired with my right honourable frhend the

:42:02. > :42:06.Minister for universities and science and for trade and space

:42:07. > :42:11.Association, actively working together to develop policies. And

:42:12. > :42:14.the blueprint for growth set out in the National space policy rdcently

:42:15. > :42:21.published. Setting out a fr`mework that we intend to follow. Some

:42:22. > :42:24.questions have been asked about the timing of the spaceport loc`tion,

:42:25. > :42:29.and honourable Members know that this is an entirely new market which

:42:30. > :42:33.is moving quickly but with complex issues to deal with around

:42:34. > :42:37.regulations, the legal basis for safe flights, which we have to get

:42:38. > :42:41.right. That work is ongoing at the moment and it is being taken

:42:42. > :42:47.seriously and I hope my comlents have reassured Members and the

:42:48. > :42:53.Government will announce how to proceed as soon as we can in 20 6.

:42:54. > :42:57.The important questions abott space debris and regulation. It is

:42:58. > :43:01.governed by the Outer space act and no licence is issued to operators of

:43:02. > :43:07.space assets unless they can show they are compliant and save.

:43:08. > :43:11.Minimising space debris is part of the process. Technical failtres

:43:12. > :43:14.occur, but we do remain vighlant and we publish the spending revhew and

:43:15. > :43:18.set up a cross governmental committee chaired by my right

:43:19. > :43:23.honourable friend the Minister for science to further ensure space

:43:24. > :43:28.security and in particular the issue of space debris. A number of

:43:29. > :43:33.colleagues asked about caredrs in STEM and

:43:34. > :43:35.million to support education programmes to help young people

:43:36. > :43:37.benefit from the Tim Peake lission and we are reaching out to girls and

:43:38. > :43:50.women is an important part of that. We are providing practical tools for

:43:51. > :43:54.teachers and lecturers. There was a question about the University of

:43:55. > :44:00.Glasgow and how the governmdnt is engaging with these cutting,edge

:44:01. > :44:02.facilities, through the work of the science technology facilitids

:44:03. > :44:05.Council and others, we are `ctively looking at how we can use those

:44:06. > :44:15.research centres to support this project. The honourable member, has

:44:16. > :44:18.described himself, as a stalker of mind because we are in the same

:44:19. > :44:27.debates, made a powerful pltg for Ireland. I think the governlent

:44:28. > :44:30.fully recognises the place of the Northern Ireland area, that is why

:44:31. > :44:37.we held an event in Belfast around Tim Peake's launch. My honotrable

:44:38. > :44:42.friend, the member for a bit of Cornwall, the precise bit of which

:44:43. > :44:46.defies my memory right now, raised important issue of Newquay `irport,

:44:47. > :44:48.and as the Prime Minister h`s said, he recognises the importancd of

:44:49. > :44:55.Newquay in both this and thd wider Cornish economy, we will look at all

:44:56. > :44:59.bits time. Adam Deputy Speaker there have been a lot of quotes, some more

:45:00. > :45:04.original than others, in thhs morning 's debate, not least, a

:45:05. > :45:10.number from David Bowie. I wanted just to close with one that we have

:45:11. > :45:16.not heard. He said, in an occasional dream, he talked and sang of

:45:17. > :45:22.tomorrow's, that we can be heroes for just one day. I think this

:45:23. > :45:26.debate, this strategy, this subject, has captured a sense in which good

:45:27. > :45:33.politics brings people together to achieve the very highest go`ls and

:45:34. > :45:35.aims. I'm very grateful to colleagues for raising it, `nd very

:45:36. > :45:39.pleased to be in the Departlent of business which is committed to

:45:40. > :45:47.achieving everything that wd can in this very exciting race. Th`nk you

:45:48. > :45:52.Madam Deputy Speaker, the rdason that we call this debate is to

:45:53. > :45:56.celebrate Major Tim Peake, his mission had incredible work that he

:45:57. > :45:58.is doing to engage children and young people. Many members have

:45:59. > :46:07.spoken about the need in particular to engage girls. I don't thhnk there

:46:08. > :46:11.is a clash on this, they ard people that we should be promoting

:46:12. > :46:16.together. There is no fricthon between them, she has given her copy

:46:17. > :46:21.of Yuri Gagarin's book to hhm, to take their as a souvenir. H`ving

:46:22. > :46:26.spent 33 years in surgery, H know what it is like to be in a lan's

:46:27. > :46:30.world, and I are being told formally in medical school that women could

:46:31. > :46:35.not do surgery. We have comd a long way. We have heard from members of

:46:36. > :46:39.all UK nations bidding for their site, and I think that is absolutely

:46:40. > :46:46.right. We have also heard the incredible breadth of the industry,

:46:47. > :46:49.and all of the things that we have not even thought about. I'm grateful

:46:50. > :46:52.to hear from the Minister of the structure and licensing, I think

:46:53. > :46:59.that is really important. I look forward to the day, when our hubs

:47:00. > :47:04.are not called Aerospace, btt Aero -space. I expect that we will have

:47:05. > :47:09.multiple of these clusters, and it may be that when the time comes we

:47:10. > :47:14.need more than one spaceport, I have swum for tourism, one for stborbital

:47:15. > :47:19.hyperbolic flights to Japan, or North America. And one for getting

:47:20. > :47:24.satellites up, satellite th`t will end up being the size of yotr packed

:47:25. > :47:29.lunch. I'm grateful for all of the members who took part, and what we

:47:30. > :47:36.want to encourage our young people is simply to aim for the st`rs. The

:47:37. > :47:45.question is as on the order paper, as many say a, and those saxing no.

:47:46. > :47:52.I think the eyes have it. Wd now come to house of Lords reform,

:47:53. > :48:00.and I call Malcolm Doherty to call it. I beg to move the motion in my

:48:01. > :48:05.name. Not since 2011 when the then Deputy Prime Minister presented the

:48:06. > :48:08.case for reform, has the opportunity being offered to members of the

:48:09. > :48:13.House of Commons to debate `nd discuss the house of lords on the

:48:14. > :48:17.floor of the house. I must before I proceed extend my grateful thanks to

:48:18. > :48:19.the backbench business commhttee, and the honourable member for Harrow

:48:20. > :48:27.East especially, for her sage advice East especially, for her sage advice

:48:28. > :48:31.and agreeing, to my novice plead to the committee. During the gdneral

:48:32. > :48:36.election, various Lords reforms were mentioned and it was critic`l, that

:48:37. > :48:40.it was the government itself which in its manifesto, limited its vision

:48:41. > :48:47.to addressing only the size of the house of lords. For clearly, size

:48:48. > :48:51.matters to the Tory party. @t its present velocity of expansion, the

:48:52. > :48:57.house of lords will soon exceed the National People's Congress of China.

:48:58. > :49:01.It is already exceeding the size of the European Parliament, whhch is

:49:02. > :49:08.elected by over 400 million European citizens. Clearly Parliament envy

:49:09. > :49:10.will soon see even this house displaced by the expansionary

:49:11. > :49:18.tactics of the Prime Ministdr. know Madam Deputy Speaker that at

:49:19. > :49:24.the last general election, the British Labour Party, took ` more

:49:25. > :49:27.pragmatic view. And I will give credit where credit is due hn

:49:28. > :49:33.recognising the work undert`ken by the last Labour government, to limit

:49:34. > :49:39.the hereditary peerage although work was sullied by the cash for honours

:49:40. > :49:44.scandal uncovered by my colleague, and I do wonder where my labour

:49:45. > :49:48.colleagues are today. I know that on these benches at least Madal Deputy

:49:49. > :49:54.Speaker, we have spoken with one voice. The Scottish National party

:49:55. > :50:00.at the general election, pl`ced a proposal before the entire community

:50:01. > :50:05.of Scotland, abolish it! If this parliament is to work as an

:50:06. > :50:10.effective and legitimate legislator, in the British state, its upper

:50:11. > :50:16.chamber should resemble less the Congress of the commonest state and

:50:17. > :50:26.maul the revising and advisory role of a parliament of the 21st century.

:50:27. > :50:31.I will indeed give way to the honourable gentleman. Thank you very

:50:32. > :50:35.much, I do agree with him whth regards to abolition, would he not

:50:36. > :50:39.agree that the power of patronage Prime Minister to point people that

:50:40. > :50:42.they choose to the house of Lords is even more pernicious than h`ving

:50:43. > :50:49.the advantage of being independent? the advantage of being independent?

:50:50. > :50:53.Don't worry, I will get there. Let us return Madam Deputy Speaker to

:50:54. > :51:00.the hopes of many members of the house. I know, he shares with my

:51:01. > :51:04.honourable friend you cannot be here today, that any future reform of the

:51:05. > :51:10.upper chamber should not only consider its size, it should limit

:51:11. > :51:15.it and remove with haste its ability as an unelected and unaccountable

:51:16. > :51:21.chamber, to generate legisl`tion. This is an affront to my

:51:22. > :51:26.constituents, and have orathon in the British critical system. Only a

:51:27. > :51:32.few months ago, the governmdnt was keen to play down any reforl agenda.

:51:33. > :51:38.Their latest antics, the honourable member of Tatton, as citizen

:51:39. > :51:44.camembert rather than, the Chancellor, and the Prime Mhnister

:51:45. > :51:50.playing the good cop. It is a farce if not a carry on, many would seek

:51:51. > :51:56.long-term resolution to the undeniable legitimacy, at ldast has

:51:57. > :52:02.viewed from this site, of the chamber in it present form. The

:52:03. > :52:07.government tinkers at the edges with the Strathclyde review. A botched

:52:08. > :52:12.job done in time for Christlas. While the review offers a w`y

:52:13. > :52:17.forward, it seems to confusd the role of the House of Lords, is it a

:52:18. > :52:20.mere stamp of government policy or is it a revising chamber th`t

:52:21. > :52:28.tackles the government on the tough subjects of the day? All options

:52:29. > :52:32.offer additional burden, crhtically Madam Deputy Speaker to the workings

:52:33. > :52:36.of this house and highlights, the dialogue that is the Palace of

:52:37. > :52:40.Westminster. If the report was at least linked in some way to working

:52:41. > :52:45.and improvements of working practices such as electronic voting,

:52:46. > :52:51.which would allow us in this place to deliberate more robust Lde and in

:52:52. > :52:54.more depth, we would reduce, the course to statue instruments. It

:52:55. > :52:59.would indeed have been a slhghtly more useful document, for the record

:53:00. > :53:02.I do wish to say Madam Deputy Speaker that I commend Lord

:53:03. > :53:08.Strathclyde and all of thosd involved in seeking to overcome the

:53:09. > :53:12.governments obstacles. In rdality while this report is welcomd, it

:53:13. > :53:19.highlights the Dickensian if not indeed medieval machinations and

:53:20. > :53:24.dubious working practices of this Parliament. It accidentally shows

:53:25. > :53:27.the Alice in Wonderland anthcs of the so-called Liberal democratic

:53:28. > :53:31.practices of the mother of Parliaments. In reality, Madam

:53:32. > :53:36.Deputy Speaker, if this revhew is worth the paper that it is written

:53:37. > :53:41.on, it would be my hope and I believe of my honourable frhends,

:53:42. > :53:46.that it would seek to uphold the nature of our poly hockey and at

:53:47. > :53:52.least promote its first pillars Control over government dechsions

:53:53. > :53:56.like policy should at all thmes constitutionally reinvested in

:53:57. > :54:01.elected officials. That in those members of this house, elected by

:54:02. > :54:10.their constituents from whol they derive, their political mandate I

:54:11. > :54:11.thank my rubble friend for giving way and I congratulate him on

:54:12. > :54:14.securing this debate and I `pologise that iCal stayed for the whole

:54:15. > :54:17.thing, he speaks about the legislative powers of the mdmbers of

:54:18. > :54:22.the house of lords, gusty agree that even more pernicious is the soft

:54:23. > :54:24.power that is held by unelected members who can nevertheless spend

:54:25. > :54:30.so much time on all-party groups, access to ministers, and all of the

:54:31. > :54:34.other trappings that are not visible and not opened up to scrutiny by

:54:35. > :54:38.watching what happens in thd live coverage of the chamber but

:54:39. > :54:44.behind-the-scenes? I couldn't agree more with my honourable fridnd, the

:54:45. > :54:48.member for Glasgow North. It is pernicious, the way that acts in

:54:49. > :54:50.this Parliament. Sadly I believe that in this Parliament at least

:54:51. > :54:57.Madam Deputy Speaker, aspiration and wilful changd is a

:54:58. > :55:04.lost cause. Even that the Prime Minister appointed over the last

:55:05. > :55:07.Parliament alone, 200 newly elected unaccountable members of thd

:55:08. > :55:11.peerage, and in the short pdriod in which I had my honourable friends

:55:12. > :55:18.have been returned to this house, a further 45. Appointees covering the

:55:19. > :55:23.great and the so-called good, including of course, large-scale

:55:24. > :55:26.donors to political parties, in the form of bigwigs in the county halls

:55:27. > :55:34.of the length and breadth of the country. Of the peerage, let me turn

:55:35. > :55:37.specifically to a certain group the archbishops and bishops of the

:55:38. > :55:44.established church of England. And while much has been made of the

:55:45. > :55:51.liking of their position to that of members of the Islamic Republic of

:55:52. > :55:56.Iran, by direct challenge to them is this, they have no place on voting

:55:57. > :56:04.on the Civic or religious lhfe of Scotland. I draw members attention

:56:05. > :56:10.to the early day motion, by 52, submitted by my own hand and signed

:56:11. > :56:15.by many of my rubble friends, from Scottish constituencies, whhch calls

:56:16. > :56:19.on those Lords spiritual, to desist in their well-documented historical

:56:20. > :56:25.interference in the affairs of the community of Scotland, sincd the

:56:26. > :56:34.times of violate and noble king David. Their interference mtst end,

:56:35. > :56:36.if this Parliament is to trtly reflect the broad Kerzhakov

:56:37. > :56:42.representation and communithes of this political state. Let us turn

:56:43. > :56:46.our days Madam Deputy Speakdr on the other members of the peeragd of the

:56:47. > :56:57.realm, and yes I would admit, through gritted teeth, therd are a

:56:58. > :57:00.few souls, that work hard. Xet as exposed by my honourable frhend the

:57:01. > :57:03.member for Perth and North Perthshire, in a debate in

:57:04. > :57:07.Westminster Hall only a year ago, we can see the limited work of so many

:57:08. > :57:16.who stipulate that their position is to stand for Scotland, in the upper

:57:17. > :57:21.chamber. And yes, the peerage has no constituency, we all recognhse that,

:57:22. > :57:26.yet they themselves purport to ensure our constituents needs in

:57:27. > :57:30.that unelected chamber. One prime example of those peers who have

:57:31. > :57:38.given attendance and filled participation, a cursory gr`nts and

:57:39. > :57:46.claimed substantial taxpayers money, for privileged access to thd bishops

:57:47. > :57:50.bar. As by convention I will indeed. May ask the honourable gentleman and

:57:51. > :57:56.his colleagues, where that xou would like to have a member of thd SNP in

:57:57. > :58:06.the house of lords? Because I think it would be a good idea. For a good

:58:07. > :58:16.laugh. But the answer is no Mac As by convention, Madam Deputy Speaker.

:58:17. > :58:19.I will direct honourable frhends to acquaint themselves with a debate in

:58:20. > :58:32.Westminster Hall held on thhs very day one year ago. The record of the

:58:33. > :58:39.peerage is damning indeed. There is a lot of passion in his spedch but

:58:40. > :58:45.it's a pity that his passion is not shared by the Labour benches. What

:58:46. > :58:48.would he say to those who don't necessarily disagree with some of

:58:49. > :58:56.what he is saying but nevertheless for whom this is a low priority I

:58:57. > :59:01.am grateful for the intervention. Chrissie is never a low priority for

:59:02. > :59:05.the Scottish National Party and that is why the people and the community

:59:06. > :59:15.of Scotland returned my honourable friend is in such numbers. Would he

:59:16. > :59:20.agree that there is very little democracy in the fact that those

:59:21. > :59:29.rejected by the electorate can find themselves down the corridor from us

:59:30. > :59:36.making law? I could not agrde more. The upper Chamber and its

:59:37. > :59:39.shenanigans reflect more debauched Roman Senate than a functioning

:59:40. > :59:47.parliamentary Chamber, bowing and scraping in which the modern world

:59:48. > :59:51.is seen as an inconvenience. I have since my election to this house

:59:52. > :59:59.visited the unelected and unaccountable Lord's and I took my

:00:00. > :00:06.place in the House of Commons balcony, a lofty vantage pohnt

:00:07. > :00:14.across which to view the gallery, and it seems... They firmly believe

:00:15. > :00:20.that after four years it dods not get any worse. Four years of

:00:21. > :00:24.accumulating dust, Madam Spdaker, is nothing compared to the acctmulation

:00:25. > :00:31.of centuries of privilege and unaccountability. It must end. There

:00:32. > :00:38.are those that will see this as nothing other than Celtic

:00:39. > :00:46.hyperventilation against a conspiracy of anomalies, arrogance,

:00:47. > :00:55.absurdity, Vanity and moralhty that poses... It is not simply a matter

:00:56. > :01:00.of vanity, the Scottish Nathonal Party in 2005 had a democratic vote

:01:01. > :01:05.never to accept seats in thd House of Lords to confirm a convention

:01:06. > :01:10.since the 70s, at no point has it ever considered taking a

:01:11. > :01:14.the unelected Chamber. I certainly agree with my honourable frhend and

:01:15. > :01:20.as long as I'm a Member of the SNP that is where I will be sticking to,

:01:21. > :01:27.no to seats in the unelected and unaccountable House of Lords. I

:01:28. > :01:35.congratulate the Member of his very careful speech. He

:01:36. > :01:38.clear about the SNP's posithon but his partners in this house `re Plaid

:01:39. > :01:44.Cymru and they have Members in the other house. From a sedentary

:01:45. > :01:49.position my honourable friend has given the answer, they don't have a

:01:50. > :01:54.separate jurisdiction. That in itself is a disgrace and a grave

:01:55. > :02:00.concern for my honourable friends in Plaid Cymru. This could be seen as

:02:01. > :02:07.pure Celtic hyperventilation. the unaccountability of the House of

:02:08. > :02:15.Lords. Yet there are Members from beyond the Celtic fringe, though I

:02:16. > :02:20.do wonder where they are today, who find unelected and unaccountable

:02:21. > :02:30.Members in the House of Lords and affronts to liberal democracy. - on

:02:31. > :02:34.the front. There are some English people who do believe that we should

:02:35. > :02:43.have won democratic Chamber and not another elected Chamber for

:02:44. > :02:47.hereditary peers. I do of course count Cornwall as being on the

:02:48. > :02:54.Celtic fringe. Any debate lhnking the Government, and I must say Her

:02:55. > :03:01.Majesty 's opposition to sole of the most damning political incolpetence

:03:02. > :03:05.is as highlighted in the last Parliament, filled even those hardy

:03:06. > :03:11.souls with dread. Cash for honours sends a collective shiver down the

:03:12. > :03:14.spine of this house. And indeed the Parliamentary system. I serhously

:03:15. > :03:22.doubt that we have seen the last of it, not only in the upper Chamber,

:03:23. > :03:25.even here. The appointment process exposes beyond doubt the prhvileges

:03:26. > :03:32.of those Members of the House of Lords in reality, there is no

:03:33. > :03:42.substitute for democracy and the direct election.

:03:43. > :03:46.be able to join this speech at late notice. Does my honourable friend

:03:47. > :03:50.agree with me that not only is this debate vital and it is a

:03:51. > :03:57.disappointment that more Melbers are not here, but actually it is

:03:58. > :04:03.perverse that we are about to reduce elected MPs, democratically elected

:04:04. > :04:06.people in this Chamber down to 00 from 650 at the same time as the

:04:07. > :04:12.House of Lords is increasing. I thank my honourable friend were

:04:13. > :04:16.raising that important point. - for raising it. I am grateful that the

:04:17. > :04:22.front bench of the opposition is here but where are the Liberal

:04:23. > :04:30.Democrats? Great changes of the British constitution? They `re the

:04:31. > :04:35.House of Lords! Is to the ftture, I wish to address my honourable

:04:36. > :04:40.friend's question directly, one clear clarion call should go to the

:04:41. > :04:47.British Labour Party, and the British Liberal party. No more

:04:48. > :04:51.appointments. Enough! Stop! Renew here today your commitment to

:04:52. > :04:59.reform, not piecemeal, not lacklustre, not fiddling with the

:05:00. > :05:03.Parliamentary democracy when the state is sullied by the illdgitimacy

:05:04. > :05:10.of the House of Lords. Be clear concise, no more Labour or Liberal

:05:11. > :05:18.peers. Call the Government's Bluff, call the bluff of the unelected

:05:19. > :05:22.unaccountable cronies. Join us in demanding an end to privilege and

:05:23. > :05:27.patronage at the heart of Government. There will be Mdmbers

:05:28. > :05:43.who will seek a resolution to this issue. One or two Chambers. I am

:05:44. > :05:49.open to persuasion. For up by camel system. Although a unicamer`l

:05:50. > :05:58.system, as evidence shows, hs no less a robust and decent system of

:05:59. > :06:02.liberal democracy. I do recognise that if a two Chamber systel is to

:06:03. > :06:09.exist, then let it be fully elected. Let it be representative of the

:06:10. > :06:17.communities and nations of this political state, let it reflect the

:06:18. > :06:27.lived experience of my constituents, for while I -- for while I `m no

:06:28. > :06:32.unionist, I believe in the sovereign will of the community of Scotland,

:06:33. > :06:38.if we should remain within this Place, my constituents have been

:06:39. > :06:41.clear, change and soon. With the Prime Minister pointing mord peers

:06:42. > :06:46.than Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair and all before, I doubt the

:06:47. > :06:52.change will come. And the consequences for Scotland and the

:06:53. > :06:57.union are well-known. When tnelected and unaccountable peers of the realm

:06:58. > :07:01.can stipulate the governancd of Scotland, while the evidencd and

:07:02. > :07:08.proposals from its elected Lembers of the House of Commons are thrown

:07:09. > :07:14.in the Thames. The case for the re-establishment of a soverdign

:07:15. > :07:18.democratic and independent Scotland is made not by the Members of the

:07:19. > :07:26.Scottish National Party but by that very apogee of the British state. It

:07:27. > :07:32.would be easy and indeed it has been, for me to vent frustr`tion at

:07:33. > :07:38.the pace of reform of the House of Lords. That's not enough. Today I

:07:39. > :07:46.wear a tie. Just like every other day. Is deemed by convention in this

:07:47. > :07:57.house. Today, this tie reprdsents, to me, hope for a more equal and

:07:58. > :08:04.just society. One in which the pupils of bone Hill primary in the

:08:05. > :08:10.Vale of Lieven, whose tie this is, should hope to live in. That hope,

:08:11. > :08:17.should be placed in a Parli`ment that reflects them and their peers.

:08:18. > :08:24.Not a Parliament in which oligarchs, cronies and chancers in an tpper

:08:25. > :08:31.Chamber go about their business unelected and unaccountable. For, be

:08:32. > :08:37.in no doubt, they will placd the hope, that hope, closer to their

:08:38. > :08:43.experience and indeed their need at home, in Scotland. For sure they

:08:44. > :09:04.know,... A higher rank than all of that. The

:09:05. > :09:08.question is is on the order paper and there are nine Members wishing

:09:09. > :09:13.to catch my eye before 4:30pm when I want to bring frontbenchers into

:09:14. > :09:20.wind-up. That is ten minutes so if we can keep to ten minutes that

:09:21. > :09:26.would be great. Thank you. H congratulate the honourable

:09:27. > :09:28.gentleman for West Dunbartonshire on securing this speech and also for

:09:29. > :09:37.his interesting and at times entertaining, and I think it's fair

:09:38. > :09:42.to say angry speech, in fact quite a lot of which I agreed with. I would

:09:43. > :09:50.actually sweep away the House of Lords. And replace it with `n almost

:09:51. > :09:53.entirely elected Chamber. I accept the fact is my honourable friend in

:09:54. > :10:01.his intervention made that ht's not exactly top of the charts rdgarding

:10:02. > :10:07.our constituents and I have only got one particular constituent who

:10:08. > :10:15.writes to me about this and other issues such as changes to the act of

:10:16. > :10:19.settlement. I know he is an extremely assiduous constittency MP

:10:20. > :10:24.and he probably spends most of his weekends knocking on doors to get

:10:25. > :10:28.people's views. I wonder if he can recall the last time the constituent

:10:29. > :10:31.on the doorstep badgered hil on the subject of the House of Lords

:10:32. > :10:38.reform? I am struggling to remember the last time the constituent

:10:39. > :10:42.troubled me on this matter. My honourable friend is right, I can't

:10:43. > :10:49.recall anyone on the doorstdp raising this particular isste, even

:10:50. > :10:51.at a time when it was being debated day in day out in this Chamber. The

:10:52. > :10:57.fact that it is not on the public agenda suggests that it won't be on

:10:58. > :11:01.the Government's agenda and of course it's not. It's the f`ct that

:11:02. > :11:05.the public don't care a gre`t deal, that's an opportunity for the

:11:06. > :11:10.Government to kick it into touch. Had I been here in the late 199 s

:11:11. > :11:17.when Tony Blair was tinkering with the House of Lords and sweeping away

:11:18. > :11:22.most of the hereditary peers, I would probably have an opposed to

:11:23. > :11:26.that is a traditional conservative. They were doing no great harm, it

:11:27. > :11:31.would appear to me, and if we are going to be ruled by unelected RDs I

:11:32. > :11:38.would rather be ruled by an unelected House of Lords th`n an

:11:39. > :11:43.unelected European Commission. The reality is that we can't go on as we

:11:44. > :11:48.have been. There have been changes both significant and minor changes

:11:49. > :11:53.to the Constitution over thd centuries, and we tended to muddle

:11:54. > :11:58.along. And accept them. On the whole, I think we have evolved a

:11:59. > :12:03.system which, with all of its faults, actually gives us a better

:12:04. > :12:08.existence and a better life, and we existence and a better life, and we

:12:09. > :12:11.are well governed. We have ` functioning and honest judicial

:12:12. > :12:19.system and the like. We havd a lot to be thankful for in the w`y things

:12:20. > :12:26.have evolved over the centuries Personally I would go for something

:12:27. > :12:32.in the region of 90% elected upper house, a Senate as I would want to

:12:33. > :12:38.call it. The honourable gentleman in his opening speech addressed the

:12:39. > :12:41.issue of bishops and archbishops. Personally my remaining 10% of

:12:42. > :12:46.unelected Members would go to faith leaders. Most significantly

:12:47. > :12:53.Christian leaders, since we are a Christian nation. That would indeed

:12:54. > :13:06.include representatives frol the Church of Scotland. I will happily

:13:07. > :13:10.give way. As a practising Christian I am not comfortable as defhning any

:13:11. > :13:16.nation as a Christian or Jewish or Islamic nation. Would it not be

:13:17. > :13:19.correct to say that we are ` group of nations historically ruldd by

:13:20. > :13:23.people who traditionally followed Christianity will stop and

:13:24. > :13:28.actions were very far apart from the true teachings of Christ?

:13:29. > :13:39.It is certainly true that wd are, I think it is fair to say, less

:13:40. > :13:45.bragging Christians now, th`n in the past, -- practising Christi`ns, but

:13:46. > :13:51.he rightly says it is our hdritage, a Christian nation, and the eternal

:13:52. > :13:56.virtues that are taught by the Christian church are the basis of

:13:57. > :14:02.our society. I will give wax. I thank you for giving way. The last

:14:03. > :14:07.census gave 31% of the population saying they had no religion. And

:14:08. > :14:10.they don't feel they would be represented by people of fahth.

:14:11. > :14:15.Speaking as vice-chair of the Parliamentary humanist group, which

:14:16. > :14:20.it not be fed to you represdnt humanists as well? I thank the

:14:21. > :14:27.honourable gentleman for his intervention. Humanism was `lways

:14:28. > :14:30.seem to be an absence of fahth, but that is a rather philosophical point

:14:31. > :14:33.that we could debate endlessly and I would be happy to do that whth the

:14:34. > :14:40.honourable gentleman at somd time. In moving the motion, the honourable

:14:41. > :14:45.gentleman refers to a unicaleral system. I think it would be a

:14:46. > :14:50.mistake to remove two a unipue panel system of one chamber. I wotld point

:14:51. > :14:58.is almost a unicameral form of is almost a unicameral form of

:14:59. > :15:05.assembly, but I will leave that I think perhaps to members on the

:15:06. > :15:12.Scottish benches to... Sorrx, I ll would you like to intervene?

:15:13. > :15:17.Although the Scottish Parli`ment does have a single chamber we have a

:15:18. > :15:21.strong committee system, it is not a assembly, it is a parliament where

:15:22. > :15:24.the government sets. I thank the honourable lady with the

:15:25. > :15:29.intervention was that in essence, I think it is becoming, it is there to

:15:30. > :15:37.say, almost a unicameral nation It is often said that we benefht from

:15:38. > :15:44.the expertise of experts, m`ny of them ex-experts,

:15:45. > :15:48.corridor with a great deal of expertise and a lots to offdr to

:15:49. > :15:52.society. But that does not necessarily mean that they should be

:15:53. > :15:57.members of the legislator, `nd governments over the years have

:15:58. > :16:03.found ways of including all sorts of people who they want to bring into

:16:04. > :16:07.the process of governance, by establishing royal commissions,

:16:08. > :16:15.enquiries, committees etc. Ht would be perfectly possible to get eminent

:16:16. > :16:20.lawyers, scientists, doctors into some sort of group that

:16:21. > :16:25.provide the expertise that those of us in this chamber certainlx need.

:16:26. > :16:32.On that point, I am glad th`t he has read the public experts, I think

:16:33. > :16:37.that the public think of thd upper house as a has an expert. Some of

:16:38. > :16:43.them are, but there is nothhng more ex-than an ex-expert, which give

:16:44. > :16:52.some support in to the idea advancing, but does he not

:16:53. > :16:56.avoid this phenomenon and wd should put a limit on the number of years

:16:57. > :17:00.that Pierce served? Thank you my honourable friend for my

:17:01. > :17:04.intervention, and if we werd to continue with a predominantly

:17:05. > :17:12.appointed house, it would bd desirable. The thing about these

:17:13. > :17:18.expert is they tend to be London's scented experts. You couldn't be a

:17:19. > :17:24.expert scientist or whatever, the reality is you are far more likely

:17:25. > :17:32.to be appointed to the housd than if you are an expert for Cleethorpes. I

:17:33. > :17:39.was privileged few years to attend the swearing in of the leaddr of

:17:40. > :17:50.Northamptonshire Council, p`rt of my constituency, deep baroness Redfearn

:17:51. > :17:55.as she now is, she has roots deep in the zone of north Lincolnshhre that

:17:56. > :18:01.she is from. The reality is such as the noble lady are few and far

:18:02. > :18:07.between, and it is a very metropolitan gathering. It hs often

:18:08. > :18:12.said, if there are two elected houses, there would be a power grab

:18:13. > :18:15.by the one house against thd other, and I think one of the mist`kes we

:18:16. > :18:21.have made in the legislation that came forward three or four xears ago

:18:22. > :18:25.was the fact that we were s`ying oh the powers of the upper house have

:18:26. > :18:30.stayed pretty much the same. That is fine, but I do think that it

:18:31. > :18:35.actually should be laid down in statute if we were to move hn the

:18:36. > :18:43.direction that we I suggesthng. Other governments have two dlected

:18:44. > :18:45.chambers and rub along reasonably well without constant power grabs by

:18:46. > :18:50.one or the other, and I think it is important that the lower hotse of

:18:51. > :18:58.cores would still be retainhng power over financial matters will stop.

:18:59. > :19:02.What I do think it is important is that any conflict between the houses

:19:03. > :19:06.should not be passed over to the Judiciary Committee and I think it

:19:07. > :19:12.should be had laid down cle`rly in any statute will stop as I said in

:19:13. > :19:15.my response to an honourabld friend, whether it is an appointed or

:19:16. > :19:25.elected house, there should be time limits. It was proposed 15 xears, in

:19:26. > :19:31.the bill put forward by the then Deputy Prime Minister. That was

:19:32. > :19:39.hatched to long. -- perhaps too long. Those party people wotld

:19:40. > :19:45.actually have the independence necessary for an upper housd. I give

:19:46. > :19:50.way. I seem to remember in the proposed legislation, Madam Deputy

:19:51. > :19:56.Speaker, in the last Parlialent that the elected members of the

:19:57. > :20:01.house of lords would be elected by huge electorates, huge electorates,

:20:02. > :20:06.three or 4 million, and then inevitably at some stage those

:20:07. > :20:13.people elected under that sxstem would say, well, I had 2 million

:20:14. > :20:23.people voting for me. And you've got a proxy 60 6000. Whose mand`te is

:20:24. > :20:28.more important? That was ond of the problems I had with the proposed

:20:29. > :20:29.legislation in the last Parliament. I thank my honourable friend for his

:20:30. > :20:40.intervention. not happy with that part of the

:20:41. > :20:45.proposal that were brought forward. I am an advocate for first past the

:20:46. > :20:49.post when it comes to an eldction for this house, but I will

:20:50. > :20:54.acknowledge that perhaps sole port of proportional recommendathon would

:20:55. > :20:58.be more appropriate for an tpper elected house. Having said that we

:20:59. > :21:01.must accept the fact that pdople don't identify with massive areas

:21:02. > :21:06.such as my honourable friend refers to, regions. People tend to identify

:21:07. > :21:13.with their own town their county, as well as thdir

:21:14. > :21:20.country. We need to devise ` system that recognises that those hnnate

:21:21. > :21:23.loyalties of people exist. Hn closing, Madam Deputy Speakdr, I

:21:24. > :21:30.would urge the government is not to tinker, as we will be doing with the

:21:31. > :21:35.Strathclyde proposal, which I'm not particularly enthusiastic about

:21:36. > :21:42.what I say to the government is go for it. I would rather have a

:21:43. > :21:50.Conservative government reform the house of lords. Conservativds are

:21:51. > :21:52.those of recognising the value of evolution during the Constitution,

:21:53. > :21:59.and don't want to go for sole Big Bang change. We have an opportunity

:22:00. > :22:00.now think carefully about it over the next year or two, put forward

:22:01. > :22:08.serious proposals, recognisd the fact that an appointed housd, an

:22:09. > :22:17.unelected assembly, is not acceptable in the 21st centtry, and

:22:18. > :22:23.it is nine time to think about it should be a Conservative government

:22:24. > :22:27.that puts four 's proposals -- forwards puzzles, and I hopd to hear

:22:28. > :22:33.some dramatic proposals at the end of this debate. Madame liberties

:22:34. > :22:38.bigger it is a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak on the house of

:22:39. > :22:46.lords. I would like to start by promoting a

:22:47. > :22:52.leader of the Labour Party. And upper house is an irresponshble part

:22:53. > :23:05.of legislate the dollar and represents the only sentiments of

:23:06. > :23:17.that Labour... He made up that statement and that was an 1807.

:23:18. > :23:21.Westminster rushes to reforl! It was defeated, although it was p`rt of a

:23:22. > :23:29.national debate at that timd, and in 19 oh 11 -- 1911. It made the

:23:30. > :23:34.supremacy of the elected ch`mber over the unelected chamber

:23:35. > :23:39.absolutely clear beyond doubt, and that shows we must go furthdr. I

:23:40. > :23:45.content we need radical change to the constitution, it is overdue and

:23:46. > :23:49.there is no place for this bloated chamber, for cronies and pl`cement

:23:50. > :23:57.in the modern day. It is 104 years since that Parliament act and I ask

:23:58. > :24:01.for democracy in all that wd do here. That means we have two move to

:24:02. > :24:12.an elected second chamber, `nd an abolishment of what we had. We must

:24:13. > :24:15.bring that government into 21st-century standards of

:24:16. > :24:22.credibility, in the developlent world, as we are all part of. The

:24:23. > :24:36.Tory government in 2016 comlitted to protection of the unelected house.

:24:37. > :24:42.All efforts to stymie and dhssuade this progress are due to thd

:24:43. > :24:50.previous governments and thdir expertise in stymieing things. It is

:24:51. > :24:56.already a bloated place and we are not content apparently that we have

:24:57. > :25:00.the second largest non-elected chamber of the world. We want to

:25:01. > :25:07.show the world that when it comes to unelected government, nobodx does it

:25:08. > :25:15.better than the UK. 26 on the side of the government were put hnto the

:25:16. > :25:24.House of Lords last year, and it is not important as the bomb attack may

:25:25. > :25:32.state. -- impotent. As the Parliamentary act may state. 92 of

:25:33. > :25:38.the unelected peers have thdir seat for the entire lives simply by being

:25:39. > :25:43.born. I am grateful for him giving way. On which note, a small clique

:25:44. > :25:48.in Downing Street gets to ddtermine who sits in the Lords. Does he

:25:49. > :25:50.therefore agreed that this gives rise to fundamental unfairndss, no

:25:51. > :25:55.correlation between number of votes cast and the opposition of the

:25:56. > :25:59.chamber, meaning that it is possible to get an election in 4 million

:26:00. > :26:06.votes, and get zero peers. That is unfair? I understand his pohnt but I

:26:07. > :26:10.think we must move to democracy This

:26:11. > :26:19.ridiculous. It is disgraceftl in this day and age. I will waht. I am

:26:20. > :26:24.noting his comments on appohntees but the appointment ought to be made

:26:25. > :26:31.by people elected. Would yot not agree with me that the people

:26:32. > :26:38.overseas' concern, it in developing democracies, that we hear in other

:26:39. > :26:42.parliaments, we have members of the House of Lords who are hereditary

:26:43. > :26:45.peers, and what I have the greatest of affection and admiration for many

:26:46. > :26:49.of those people individuallx, and they give great service, it is

:26:50. > :26:53.rather a difficult thing to explain to people in other countries who are

:26:54. > :27:00.growing their democracies and look to the United Kingdom for a lead? He

:27:01. > :27:05.makes a very good point, and it points towards democracy. Those

:27:06. > :27:09.hereditaries pays stick in the core of many, and we should have election

:27:10. > :27:19.to determine that, we should have a conversation about how we do not

:27:20. > :27:24.whether should do it. Indeed, yes. I thank the Deputy Speaker for

:27:25. > :27:32.allowing me to intervene and my honourable friend for giving away. I

:27:33. > :27:37.actually support the idea of you get having a member in the Housd of

:27:38. > :27:45.Lords, and I think it is sad that Ukip do not. I think it might give

:27:46. > :27:50.the honourable gentleman and a seven at the pleasure if his first name

:27:51. > :28:01.was Nigel. I will let the honourable gentleman speak for himself on that.

:28:02. > :28:03.I believe in representation of people that vote. That is what I

:28:04. > :28:20.believe in terms of democracy. Let's consider the curiouslx named

:28:21. > :28:26.Liberal Democrats. They werd hammered, and not before tile, many

:28:27. > :28:29.of us would say, first in Scotland at the Scottish Parliament dlections

:28:30. > :28:34.in 2011 when they were reduced to a in 2011 when they were reduced to a

:28:35. > :28:37.rump of just five NFPs and ht was followed up in the General Dlection

:28:38. > :28:42.last year when they were reduced to just eight out of 650. In

:28:43. > :28:46.democracies, the people havd spoken, the message is sent and that is

:28:47. > :28:50.democracy, except that is not the end of the story. Because they defy

:28:51. > :28:57.democracy thanks to the House of Lords. There is an incredible 1 1 of

:28:58. > :29:04.them are along the corridor, either sleeping or sitting on thosd

:29:05. > :29:07.benches, collecting their t`x-free status and maybe even voting

:29:08. > :29:13.occasionally. Down that corridor, unelected and unaccountable.

:29:14. > :29:17.Westminster's on political zombies, Mr Deputy Speaker, and we h`ve to

:29:18. > :29:20.move forward. They are not dlected and the people's view must be

:29:21. > :29:24.paramount. Some will see thd House of Lords provides access to

:29:25. > :29:29.expertise not found among MPs in the House of Commons and whilst I

:29:30. > :29:34.acknowledge, having met somd, Lords who certainly have expertisd, there

:29:35. > :29:42.are many honourable people hn this place and it cannot be beyond this

:29:43. > :29:48.place to find experts. I th`nk him for giving way. It would be hard to

:29:49. > :29:52.find an advisory body will with expertise. They have legisl`tive

:29:53. > :29:55.power and that is the difference. I think there are a number of things

:29:56. > :30:01.we can do comedy is certainly right, and that is one. One of the many

:30:02. > :30:03.problems is it is stuffed to the gunwales with politicians who have

:30:04. > :30:15.failed to win nonetheless looked after by the

:30:16. > :30:21.powers that be -- and he is certainly right. Having dond the job

:30:22. > :30:24.as MP in Stirling, the MP w`s chosen to serve the constituency btt has

:30:25. > :30:28.now spent seven years in thd unelected chamber down the corridor

:30:29. > :30:29.so there is a fundamental problem I think that illustrates the `nd there

:30:30. > :30:40.is a big list of former MPs pasture at the end of the corridor.

:30:41. > :30:45.Jeremy Purvis, for example. His inestimable stature. Then there are

:30:46. > :30:49.those picked at random, presumably, perhaps for saying the right things

:30:50. > :30:54.at the right time to help a party in Government or... I will givd way. I

:30:55. > :30:59.thank the honourable gentlelan for giving way. He makes very trenchant

:31:00. > :31:05.criticisms of the other place, a number of which I agree with. Will

:31:06. > :31:09.he accept that in the interdst of evenhandedness, the House of Lords

:31:10. > :31:13.does do some good work and we do some effective work in holdhng the

:31:14. > :31:21.Government to account and from time to time make very principled stance,

:31:22. > :31:23.like on tax credits? I would say the honourable gentleman, even ` broken

:31:24. > :31:27.clock is correct twice a dax. It doesn't mean you do not need a new

:31:28. > :31:32.clock. I will move on to Margaret Thatcher just for him. She once said

:31:33. > :31:36.at the end of her term as Prime Minister, I calculate I was

:31:37. > :31:40.responsible for proposing the elevation to the Lords of some 14

:31:41. > :31:46.of its present numbers. My problem is that some of them are sthll

:31:47. > :31:49.there, undoubtedly, after all this time, unelected spectres interfering

:31:50. > :31:55.in legislation to this very day and that is the serious point hdre.

:31:56. > :31:59.These people have legislative authority. Over the lives of

:32:00. > :32:04.millions of people across the UK and no democratic mandate whatsoever.

:32:05. > :32:07.Radical democratic reform or outright abolition of this tired,

:32:08. > :32:12.antiquated and undemocratic institution is necessary and long

:32:13. > :32:17.overdue. A successful reforl passed in ink just like that, the reform

:32:18. > :32:24.must represent the necessarx change to bring our democracy kickhng and

:32:25. > :32:32.screaming into the 21st-century -- just like the reform passed in 911,

:32:33. > :32:36.this reform... I welcome thd member from Dunbartonshire for sectring

:32:37. > :32:43.this most overdue of debates on reforms of the House of Lords.

:32:44. > :32:47.Hyperbole, you may say that is what it is for some, but for othdrs you

:32:48. > :32:51.could see it is passion to lend what is wrong. Membership is fast

:32:52. > :32:56.approaching 1000 members. Wd have also heard it is the second largest

:32:57. > :33:00.chamber on earth, it second only to China, but it is worth remelbering

:33:01. > :33:05.China has a population 28 thmes that of the UK. Of course, not one of the

:33:06. > :33:09.thousand peers in the other place is elected by the public though some of

:33:10. > :33:13.them are elected by their pders which is interesting. The House of

:33:14. > :33:17.Lords is in no way reflective of the political views of the people and

:33:18. > :33:24.neither is it reflective of society in general. Over three quarters or

:33:25. > :33:28.mail, over half is over 70 xears of age -- male. I was going to try to

:33:29. > :33:35.seats guaranteed for Bishops of the far too difficult and would get into

:33:36. > :33:39.seats guaranteed for Bishops of the Church of England, as we he`rd, but

:33:40. > :33:43.not for Wales or Scotland, let alone any other faith. Madam Speaker, does

:33:44. > :33:47.the Government consider a non-Christian to be less of a

:33:48. > :33:51.citizen of the UK than a Christian? I would certainly hope the `nswer is

:33:52. > :33:55.no but the existence of the House of Lords in its present form would

:33:56. > :33:58.suggest otherwise and also provides evidence for that. It also `stounded

:33:59. > :34:03.me to learn the fudged compromise whereby 92 accepted heredit`ry peers

:34:04. > :34:07.who survived the colour of maintaining they won not only

:34:08. > :34:11.continued to attend the House and influence the democracy of the UK,

:34:12. > :34:15.but they are replaced by yet more hereditary peers in in-housd

:34:16. > :34:21.elections. I thought they wdre a deal that would gradually dhsappear,

:34:22. > :34:27.but it is self-perpetuating. The evident injustice of having people

:34:28. > :34:30.there because they were born into it is perpetuating itself. The House of

:34:31. > :34:35.Lords is crying out for reform. Plaid Cymru sees no place for this

:34:36. > :34:39.in a modern democracy. Nonetheless, for as long as decisions ard

:34:40. > :34:43.affecting Wales will continte to be made their Plaid Cymru will push for

:34:44. > :34:50.Wales to have an equal voicd in that chamber. After all, we are `s

:34:51. > :34:52.Scotland. Wales has no separate jurisdiction and that has bden the

:34:53. > :35:00.case since 1536. I will givd way, of course. 1536, and 1542, yes, but

:35:01. > :35:02.what on earth does that havd to do with membership of the Housd of

:35:03. > :35:14.Lords?, on! Because they Wales, the House of Lords, `nd we

:35:15. > :35:24.must address that -- Com. Things have changed since 1999 and the

:35:25. > :35:28.masons this string. -- Come on. We need to make sure Wales is heard on

:35:29. > :35:33.Government to account but I remain the apparent freedom of

:35:34. > :35:38.Government to account but I remain those who hold that view th`t over

:35:39. > :35:41.70% of peers vote on party lines and 25% of thought since beginnhng to

:35:42. > :35:49.seven, former MPs, have either resigned or been voted out since the

:35:50. > :35:52.public. -- since 1997. I appreciate many in the other place are

:35:53. > :35:56.considered experts in their field, but we have heard mention of the

:35:57. > :36:00.ex-experts and I do not accdpt this as an ardent against democr`cy. If

:36:01. > :36:05.indeed those experts are experts today and not, as it were, 20 years

:36:06. > :36:09.ago, and if that is the casd they should be persuaded to stand for

:36:10. > :36:12.office in a public collection. I would also suggest the Housd take

:36:13. > :36:17.note of figures from the eldctoral reforms society that phone 25% of

:36:18. > :36:22.peers have representational politics as they remain profession prior to

:36:23. > :36:27.entering the Lords -- found that 25%. Twice as many peers worked as

:36:28. > :36:34.staff to the Royal household than in manual labour. Twice as manx. That

:36:35. > :36:43.is extraordinary compared to what is for much the part of most pdople's

:36:44. > :36:45.lives. I will give way. I al listening very intently and actually

:36:46. > :36:51.enjoying this debate a great deal because so much I agree with. Could

:36:52. > :36:55.I ask the honourable lady, through the chair, of course, whethdr she

:36:56. > :37:01.would ever think it would bd a good idea for sections of societx,

:37:02. > :37:07.doctors, teachers, dustbin len, if that is the right time thesd days,

:37:08. > :37:12.nurses, to actually have a section of members of the House of Lords to

:37:13. > :37:16.which they actually appoint, so they decide who should represent them in

:37:17. > :37:23.the House of Lords, is that an idea you might even consider? Th`t is

:37:24. > :37:27.something we will need to consider in detail but we do expect to be

:37:28. > :37:29.looking to see whether thesd representative bodies actually do

:37:30. > :37:34.represent society and we should judge them on that effect. The

:37:35. > :37:38.return, the House of Lords hs not Oracle of all-encompassing knowledge

:37:39. > :37:43.many would have us believe `nd I would remind the House that while

:37:44. > :37:46.the houses of parliament, which includes almost 1000 Lords `nd, at

:37:47. > :37:51.present, 650 MPs although it is interesting that while the panic

:37:52. > :37:55.that goes up the MPs go down. The Welsh Parliament, responsible for

:37:56. > :38:03.the NHS, education, economical development and other vital field in

:38:04. > :38:08.Wales, has only 60 AMs, and once you discount Welsh Government mhnisters

:38:09. > :38:11.and others, only 42 of thosd AMs are available to hold the Welsh

:38:12. > :38:18.Government to account and scrutinise legislation. -- it is interdsting

:38:19. > :38:32.that while the Lords numbers go up, MPs go down. 42 members in Wales,

:38:33. > :38:34.while the NHS in England, sorry the House of Lords in England h`s an

:38:35. > :38:39.excess of 1500 MPs and peers holding the UK Government to account on its

:38:40. > :38:42.performance, so I suggest to the house is proportionally elected

:38:43. > :38:45.second chamber with a drasthcally reduced number of peers coupled with

:38:46. > :38:49.an increase in the size of the Welsh Parliament would make the UK is far

:38:50. > :38:53.more modern, balanced and effective democracy. This debate has hndeed

:38:54. > :38:57.shone a light on that long overdue need to reform but it is now up to

:38:58. > :39:02.the Government to bring forward proposals to ensure

:39:03. > :39:11.appears to modern standards and reflect society and its views. -

:39:12. > :39:16.and reflects. In particular, I most enjoyed the speech by the honourable

:39:17. > :39:23.member for West Martin sure which was very entertaining, but `lso very

:39:24. > :39:27.serious -- West Dunbartonshhre. The House of Lords has of coursd been in

:39:28. > :39:34.the news again recently and the Government is clearly threatening

:39:35. > :39:38.change to rein in it legiblx noble colleagues. It has even been

:39:39. > :39:41.suggested Conservative peers were not entirely happy with what the

:39:42. > :39:50.Government wants to do but ly interest is begin today is to argue

:39:51. > :39:50.for a unilateral Parliament and I would

:39:51. > :39:57.legislatures across the world and unicameral. -- unicameral. H would

:39:58. > :40:00.hope we should at least discuss that possibility. And I hope movds

:40:01. > :40:06.towards it in time. When I first entered this House in 1997, the new

:40:07. > :40:11.Labour Government, and I emphasise that, established the Royal

:40:12. > :40:17.Commission for possible reform of the House of Lords. Into my time

:40:18. > :40:23.here, shortly into it, I attended a policy meeting and I am surd my

:40:24. > :40:28.speaker, would understand what speaker, would understand what

:40:29. > :40:33.regional policy forums are `like. This was in Watford on Saturday

:40:34. > :40:36.afternoon with around 30, 40 party members attending. Each had been

:40:37. > :40:40.allocated by the party machhne but we were addressed by a learn it

:40:41. > :40:45.professor from the Royal Colmission. In terms of reference set down by

:40:46. > :40:48.the Government, there was no mac mention of abolition of the House of

:40:49. > :40:54.Lords as a possible option so I asked why this was -- no mention.

:40:55. > :40:58.Another member at the meeting then suggested we should have a show of

:40:59. > :41:01.hands to test opinion to sed how many members at the meeting

:41:02. > :41:06.favourite abolition, an innocent little test of opinion. At this the

:41:07. > :41:13.chair became very agitated `nd said, isolate, there will be no votes

:41:14. > :41:18.They did not want even a show of hands in Watford on Saturdax

:41:19. > :41:23.afternoon, when it was rainhng outside, no doubt, to express in

:41:24. > :41:27.majority view that we should abolish the House of Lords -- icily. I

:41:28. > :41:31.suspect at the moment that there was probably a majority in that room for

:41:32. > :41:38.abolition but it was not to be discussed. It was clear over leaders

:41:39. > :41:45.wanted to keep the Lords in some form and discussing possibld

:41:46. > :41:49.abolition was not to be toldrated. Abolition is still not being

:41:50. > :41:52.discussed despite things en`cted by the Blair Government. Some

:41:53. > :41:56.long-standing members may rdcall the debate on reform in this Hotse and a

:41:57. > :42:01.series of votes on possible alternatives which took place in

:42:02. > :42:08.March, 2007. One did effecthvely permit a test of opinion on the

:42:09. > :42:14.possible abolition. Of Labotr backbenchers, 169 honourabld friend

:42:15. > :42:17.'s voted for a bicameral parliament but 155 us voted against, for a

:42:18. > :42:23.unicameral parliament of the Lords. With almost h`lf of

:42:24. > :42:28.the Labour backbenchers there was a substantial body of support for a

:42:29. > :42:30.unicameral parliament. The fact this option was deliberately excluded

:42:31. > :42:35.from consideration by the e`rly commission was, I think, a political

:42:36. > :42:40.fix. I put down an early dax motion to this effect at the time which

:42:41. > :42:45.received the support of 50 Labour members, some 14 of whom ard still

:42:46. > :42:49.members of the House today. It was clear the simple case was the Prime

:42:50. > :42:52.Minister at the time wished to retain his power of patronage to

:42:53. > :42:58.appoint members to the Lords and for a number of possible reasons, I may

:42:59. > :43:02.say subsequent to that therd were many who argued for a strong House

:43:03. > :43:05.of Lords and to keep it in proportion even if it becamd

:43:06. > :43:12.democratic, for appointment. One of the reasons why this was was to be

:43:13. > :43:16.able to offer members of thhs House the prospect of elevation to the

:43:17. > :43:19.Lords. Both as a way of keeping control and diminishing the

:43:20. > :43:23.potential for rebellion in the Commons and possibly to help

:43:24. > :43:27.persuade older members with safe seats to retire at a convenhent time

:43:28. > :43:30.for the party machine to slot in leadership supporters into those

:43:31. > :43:34.safe seats. ... Yes, I will give way.

:43:35. > :43:40.I don't know the honourable member members instance in Scotland where

:43:41. > :43:43.the Kingdom of Fife was range is from five Parliamentary

:43:44. > :43:48.constituencies to four. Member at that time for Dunfermline E`st,

:43:49. > :43:52.Gordon Brown, find himself without an office successive seat. The

:43:53. > :43:55.member for conduct -- frog Cordi Greek to retire and Mr Brown begin a

:43:56. > :43:59.member of Parliament for Kirkcaldy and shortly after the member from

:44:00. > :44:04.Kirkcaldy became a member of the House of Lords. Is that the kind of

:44:05. > :44:09.democratic process you're t`lking about? I don't wish to menthon

:44:10. > :44:14.particular examples goes thdre are still members who may or max not

:44:15. > :44:19.have experienced this process. I do say that in my party and want to see

:44:20. > :44:23.individual members with the power and not the party machines `nd

:44:24. > :44:28.certainly not the leaders to select candidates. I say possibly `bout

:44:29. > :44:33.this because I cannot prove such things occurred and I don't wish to

:44:34. > :44:37.it employed any criticism of other members who might have been selected

:44:38. > :44:40.in strong party seats. This might occur in other parties as wdll. It

:44:41. > :44:45.is clearly the case that successive prime ministers before and since

:44:46. > :44:48.have jealously guarded their powers of Peter Richard. I want to see

:44:49. > :44:52.those powers taken away in the interests of a more vigorous

:44:53. > :44:56.intensive democracy in this house and outside to rein in of these

:44:57. > :45:01.extra. I think this is a serious matter and I hope that as and when

:45:02. > :45:07.we come to discuss the posshble future of the House of Lords the

:45:08. > :45:15.possibility of a united Parliament and getting rid of this pagd which

:45:16. > :45:18.is raised again. I would like to pay credit to my honourable fridnd from

:45:19. > :45:23.Weston Bath and shower and backbench committee for securing and

:45:24. > :45:27.allocating this debate and for opening the debate in his own

:45:28. > :45:30.inimitable and passionate style I'm grateful for the opportunitx to

:45:31. > :45:32.debate and discuss Howard Whley second chamber of this housd should

:45:33. > :45:39.be reformed to allow the parliament to walk -- work Mordt fairlx and

:45:40. > :45:42.democratically across the UK. In it's current form has of Lords can

:45:43. > :45:45.only be seen as an affront to democracy and has no place hn the

:45:46. > :45:47.modern democratic position laking process. Since being elected last

:45:48. > :45:53.the strange traditions that surround May I have become the

:45:54. > :45:55.the strange traditions that surround this place. There are many outdated

:45:56. > :46:02.rules and conventions that range from the old to ridiculous, from

:46:03. > :46:05.trivial matters such as fancy dress and a 15 minute books that stifle

:46:06. > :46:11.the democratic process. The most outdated relic is the unelected

:46:12. > :46:16.second chamber of peers. Wh`t does it say about as given at he`ring the

:46:17. > :46:21.21st-century we need to relx on an undemocratic body including roads as

:46:22. > :46:24.leaders, defeated MPs, partx cries and donors to oversee and scrutinise

:46:25. > :46:29.the work of the democratically elected obsessives in this place?

:46:30. > :46:34.This bloated and out of datd chamber is the second-largest legends from

:46:35. > :46:37.-- legislative body in the world. This is only behind the Nathonal

:46:38. > :46:42.Beagle's congress of China, a similarly undemocratic beast. The

:46:43. > :46:46.of Lords is growing at after the of

:46:47. > :46:50.recent elections are the Government appointing party loyalists to serve

:46:51. > :46:54.in the House of Lords. Kenndth Gibson -- Gibson has retaindd

:46:55. > :46:57.figures at showing nearly 74% of employment is to lodge sincd the

:46:58. > :47:03.election are defeated, retired or deselected MPs or former advisers.

:47:04. > :47:09.The UK also stands out amongst other western democracies in giving a

:47:10. > :47:12.religious leaders seats in the legislature as of right. Thd SNP

:47:13. > :47:15.does not put forward any individuals to be appointed to serve in the

:47:16. > :47:18.House of Lords, we have a long-standing opposition to this

:47:19. > :47:19.costly, an democratic and bloated chamber and will continue opposing

:47:20. > :47:29.it with every opportunity. contrast, although parties do that

:47:30. > :47:32.forward regular part Disney people deserve a Spears got with shx of

:47:33. > :47:36.these come from the main political parties that serve in this chamber.

:47:37. > :47:39.As long as a long-standing dogmatic outrage there is equal and

:47:40. > :47:44.long-standing financial cost having such a ridiculous chamber in place.

:47:45. > :47:48.The 2014-15 it cost nearly ?95 million to run the head of Lords,

:47:49. > :47:54.with over ?29 going on expenses and lunches. Put that in context to run

:47:55. > :47:56.the eight ?7 million to run the Scottish Parliament and you can see

:47:57. > :48:03.why so many constituents ard fed up with this chamber. -- ?27 mhllion. I

:48:04. > :48:09.appreciate he is new to the house was I've been in the house five

:48:10. > :48:12.years and I want to say that not a single constituent of mine has ever

:48:13. > :48:17.mentioned the House of Lords. I was wondering how many constitudnts of

:48:18. > :48:21.his have brought the subject up Thank you for this intervention was

:48:22. > :48:24.at this point was made earlher and while there are many other hssues

:48:25. > :48:28.coming up, I have to be hondst and say it's come up on the doorstep

:48:29. > :48:32.many times. It is by far from the number 100 conversation but

:48:33. > :48:36.certainly has, several times and I do come onto public levels of

:48:37. > :48:43.support following my speech. It s clear to most people right now, in

:48:44. > :48:46.fact, it's clear to most people that the second chamber needs a radical

:48:47. > :48:52.reform that if we want to c`ll ourselves a true modern democracy,

:48:53. > :48:57.and a recent YouGov poll from the temperature in given the range of

:48:58. > :49:00.options, 41% of people belidve the House of Lords should be entirely

:49:01. > :49:05.respondents thought the system was elected, but crucially, onlx 5%

:49:06. > :49:08.respondents thought the system was acceptable in its current format.

:49:09. > :49:10.Even though the recently published Strathclyde reviewed dot colment on

:49:11. > :49:13.the condition of the eyes of Lords, provides the opportunity to discuss

:49:14. > :49:18.the future of the House of Lords in more detail. This was housed --

:49:19. > :49:23.easily read by a Government heart, following the elite in defe`t over

:49:24. > :49:29.tax credit costs to costs, this was set up to accompany the second

:49:30. > :49:32.chamber's abilities all the Government can, these issues need to

:49:33. > :49:37.be to beat Ismet, not pushed to easily. The UK Government w`nts to

:49:38. > :49:40.muzzle the Lords in the samd way as is or the mother of charitids and

:49:41. > :49:45.others who have criticised welfare reform and austerity. Accept the

:49:46. > :49:47.Government has a majority of MPs in his chamber, but it should not

:49:48. > :49:51.confuse this with having a lajority of wisdom. On matters of Parliament

:49:52. > :49:55.be willing to listen to and work be willing to listen to and work

:49:56. > :50:00.with those who have different views to them. This can be other LPs,

:50:01. > :50:05.other parties, other Parlialent outside the organisation 's or the

:50:06. > :50:09.second chamber. The SNP does not support the current approach the

:50:10. > :50:12.House of Lords, those who attend or the privilege associated th`t we

:50:13. > :50:15.have to acknowledge that on occasion the Lords can be useful. For

:50:16. > :50:22.'s review of the impact of planned recent tax credit U-turn. The board

:50:23. > :50:27.'s review of the impact of planned cuts to ESA is another example of

:50:28. > :50:30.the invaluable review of policy that media second chamber to takd for

:50:31. > :50:35.that I did not support an elected second chamber and believe the House

:50:36. > :50:38.of Lords must be abolished. And in such an eventuality there is the

:50:39. > :50:44.option of having a unicamer`l parliament, has outlined prdviously.

:50:45. > :50:47.With a committee structure of the Scottish Parliament, but for the

:50:48. > :50:50.purposes of this debate I'vd presumed there is a reason for

:50:51. > :50:54.having to tears. Whatever arrangement are made we must be able

:50:55. > :50:59.to properly is good night and hold this governments to account. I have

:51:00. > :51:02.to be honest, and admits to the varying conflicted when forced to

:51:03. > :51:05.rely on an unelected chamber to defend the welfare state ag`inst the

:51:06. > :51:09.cuts planned by this Conservative Government. It of the Lords to

:51:10. > :51:12.tackle the planned cuts comd as flawed as it is, it will be down the

:51:13. > :51:15.second chamber to phase the Government again as it seems

:51:16. > :51:19.determined to cut implement support allowance, further penalising to sit

:51:20. > :51:23.-- disabled the people, somd of whom will be members in Westminster Hall

:51:24. > :51:27.yesterday. This highlights the absurdity of the constitutional

:51:28. > :51:30.arrangement that we rely on an light appears to be dead as from some of

:51:31. > :51:35.the worst aspects of this Government policy agenda. This situation has

:51:36. > :51:37.got lots of anger in Scotland, why are we forced Ryan are elected peers

:51:38. > :51:42.to defend bellows of distance and their families? Scotland has seen

:51:43. > :51:45.unimpressed and levels of ddmocratic engagement during and after the

:51:46. > :51:52.is outdated, out of touch and an is outdated, out of touch and an

:51:53. > :51:55.democratic is to develop desperate is the -- defend the wealthhest it

:51:56. > :51:59.does not sit well with people or with me for topic in front to

:52:00. > :52:04.democracy and the way the p`ge list system has rewarded party loyalists

:52:05. > :52:07.is treated of the iceberg. We recently lured that friends of

:52:08. > :52:13.Cabinet ministers have been rewarded for their services with a place in

:52:14. > :52:16.the Lords. MPs are special `dvisers and parties who were awarded

:52:17. > :52:20.peerages after the election make the house look like a dumping ground or

:52:21. > :52:24.a retirement plan for party cronies. The numerous expenses scand`ls also

:52:25. > :52:32.do nothing to improve the ilage of the Lords. Whatever my feelhngs I

:52:33. > :52:36.do recognise the benefits of having a second chamber at Westminster

:52:37. > :52:40.with this current Government in administration. We don't have to

:52:41. > :52:43.reinvent the wheel, there h`s been a range of work done to review the

:52:44. > :52:46.current setup, several organisations have done lots of work on this issue

:52:47. > :52:50.and have come up with sever`l options. Groups such as the

:52:51. > :52:54.electoral reforms are cited, and the UCL Constitution unit carridd out

:52:55. > :52:59.in-depth research into the Lords and its possible alternatives. We'd

:53:00. > :53:02.Joffrey commented and transparent debate in Government is timd that

:53:03. > :53:05.the Conservative Government would be rocked Instagram at judging by the

:53:06. > :53:06.way they've rushed to the Strathclyde review. The Labour and

:53:07. > :53:10.Conservatives have been failing to Conservatives have been failing to

:53:11. > :53:14.follow through on their intdntions to reform the House of Lords. With