19/01/2016

:00:07. > :00:13.Good morning and welcome to BBC Parliament live coverage of the

:00:14. > :00:19.Commons. In an hour and urgent question is being asked by

:00:20. > :00:25.Conservative Stephen Phillips about Ebola. Officials in zero the loan

:00:26. > :00:31.confirmed -- in Sierra Leone confirmed that someone has died

:00:32. > :00:40.after the world health organisation said the virus had ended. The main

:00:41. > :00:49.business are to debates on student maintenance grants and on the cost

:00:50. > :00:54.of public transport. Join me for a round-up at 11 o'clock tonight.

:00:55. > :00:59.First questions to the Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne and his

:01:00. > :01:01.ministerial team. The first question from the Conservative Craig Williams

:01:02. > :01:17.concerns the Chancellor's long-term economic plan.

:01:18. > :01:24.Order, order. Questions to Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer. Craig

:01:25. > :01:38.Williams. Britain is in a much stronger

:01:39. > :01:42.economic position manager was five years ago with employment up and the

:01:43. > :01:47.deficit down. However, as I set out in my speech to business leaders in

:01:48. > :01:50.Cardiff, we face a dangerous cocktail of economic risks from

:01:51. > :01:54.around the world this year. That situation is reflected in the IMF

:01:55. > :01:58.forecast which was published one hour ago which shows world growth is

:01:59. > :02:02.down but the positive forecast for the UK on change. It sure is the

:02:03. > :02:06.best thing we can do here is continued to fix our public

:02:07. > :02:11.finances, back business and deliver our long-term economic plan. Thank

:02:12. > :02:16.you. The Chancellor was very welcome when he was in Cardiff two weeks ago

:02:17. > :02:21.and brought a sense of urgency to the Cardiff city deal process with a

:02:22. > :02:24.deadline for the budget and a clear sense of direction. If we are to

:02:25. > :02:31.maximise the potential of Cardiff in the Welsh economy presented and our

:02:32. > :02:39.long-term economic plan, is it not time we had tangible plans from

:02:40. > :02:42.Labour given the have had years to come up with them? It was good to

:02:43. > :02:48.meet with my honourable friend and business leaders in Cardiff and to

:02:49. > :02:54.back investment in the new semiconductor catapult and the

:02:55. > :02:58.brilliant work being done at the university there. I hope we can

:02:59. > :03:01.agree with the wealth of Ramadan with authorities in Cardiff a

:03:02. > :03:08.Cardiff city deal before the budget. He poses the rate question, which is

:03:09. > :03:11.after 16 years after being in power the Labour Party in Wales has not

:03:12. > :03:18.delivered incredible economic plan for Wales is it not time for change?

:03:19. > :03:25.If the Chancellor keeps sucking off the threat to the very existence of

:03:26. > :03:36.some of Britain's's course at Egypt industries like still cause -- like

:03:37. > :03:41.steel, is there not eight danger that it might just not be the at all

:03:42. > :03:44.in the future? Of course the redundancies at Tata Steel and

:03:45. > :03:49.elsewhere in the industry are a real matter of regret. We are providing

:03:50. > :03:53.all these aboard we can to families, helping them get back into work. We

:03:54. > :04:00.are also responding to a quest from the steel industry to cut energy

:04:01. > :04:08.costs. That comes into effect today. -- requests from the steel industry.

:04:09. > :04:10.We are making sure that internationally we take action

:04:11. > :04:14.against the chief imports from China. Not one of these things were

:04:15. > :04:19.done under a Labour Government, and during that period, the number of

:04:20. > :04:22.steel jobs fell by 50% in this country. So we will not take

:04:23. > :04:29.lectures from the party opposite, but we will back our steel industry.

:04:30. > :04:35.Does the tiles were think that the stamp duty surcharge announced in

:04:36. > :04:39.the Autumn Statement, the effect of that on the buy to let market will

:04:40. > :04:45.be to inhibit or advance labour mobility? I think it will help

:04:46. > :04:53.promote homeownership, because it will mean there is a more level

:04:54. > :04:58.playing field between an order occupier buying a house at the buy

:04:59. > :05:02.to let landlords. There is nothing wrong with people investing in

:05:03. > :05:05.property, there should just be a level playing field so that we

:05:06. > :05:10.reverse the decline in home ownership in this country. A

:05:11. > :05:15.long-term economic plan means supporting small businesses across

:05:16. > :05:21.the country. On the 26th of December 250 businesses in my constituency

:05:22. > :05:24.employed 2500 people were inundated by floodwaters. Bobby tiles for Dick

:05:25. > :05:31.Best opportunity to commit to a proper school -- well the Chancellor

:05:32. > :05:39.take the opportunity to commit to proper flood defences? I know the

:05:40. > :05:43.Environment Agency and indeed the Government is conducting a review

:05:44. > :05:47.after what was the highest level of rainfall in our modern history in

:05:48. > :05:52.Yorkshire. But of course by committing the additional ?2 billion

:05:53. > :05:55.to flood investments we are able to afford these things. We would not be

:05:56. > :05:59.able to afford any of this sort of thing if we had wrecked the economy

:06:00. > :06:06.in the last couple of years. Does my honourable friend agree that as part

:06:07. > :06:19.of his long-term economic plan be helped by Isil will help people in

:06:20. > :06:26.my constituency where -- help to buy ISA will help? The help to buy ISA

:06:27. > :06:31.has been a huge success as it has been launched. 170,000 families have

:06:32. > :06:35.taken it up because that is helping people get on the ladder, the

:06:36. > :06:38.property ladder, helping them save for that deposit and doing

:06:39. > :06:44.everything we can to support the aspirations of the families of

:06:45. > :06:55.Britain. The Government's plan requires the doubling of exports by

:06:56. > :06:58.2022 ?1 trillion, -- by 2020. Can the Chancellor tell us, does he

:06:59. > :07:04.still hauled to the intention and the promise to the UK exports rise

:07:05. > :07:11.by ?100 billion per year every year for the next five years? We do hold

:07:12. > :07:16.to the target, but quite frankly it will be very challenging to meet,

:07:17. > :07:19.because while we have been improving exports, and frankly many of our

:07:20. > :07:22.main export markets have been very weak, we would like to see further

:07:23. > :07:27.economic reform on the continent of Europe. Some of those emerging

:07:28. > :07:32.markets are struggling at the moment, although we have a very good

:07:33. > :07:40.economic dialogue team plays today with India. British exports to India

:07:41. > :07:42.are increasing. There are a lot of challenges, but I am not one who

:07:43. > :07:47.thinks we should knock the challenges or ditched the target.

:07:48. > :07:52.Increasing exports is a key target for the UK. We should set ambitious

:07:53. > :08:04.targets but they have to be credible. Given that all beer -- or

:08:05. > :08:15.they are say it will be feel -- will feel to be met, should we not set a

:08:16. > :08:19.realistic and achievable targets? I think it is right to set the

:08:20. > :08:24.scratching target and tried to meet it even if it will be challenging.

:08:25. > :08:29.He talks about realistic and credible numbers. If Scotland had

:08:30. > :08:33.listened to the Scottish nationalists, it would be becoming

:08:34. > :08:38.separate from the United Kingdom in two months' time and the Scottish

:08:39. > :08:44.Government and its claim on independence on an oil price of

:08:45. > :08:50.$115. Scotland now would be heading for economic catastrophe if there it

:08:51. > :08:53.had listened to the honourable gentleman and the members from the

:08:54. > :08:59.Scottish Nationalist party. So before they talk about credible and

:09:00. > :09:05.realistic economic policies anywhere else in the UK, they should get one

:09:06. > :09:10.themselves. Motor manufacturing is crucial to our long-term economic

:09:11. > :09:26.plan. Surely the Land Rover defender. Production in Solihull.

:09:27. > :09:38.--. Production. Well the Chancellor pay tribute to the workers in

:09:39. > :09:42.Solihull? This iconic model has been produced over decades and been seen

:09:43. > :09:47.all over the world and producible peacetime and wartime. Good news for

:09:48. > :09:52.Solihull and the whole country is that they continue to produce

:09:53. > :09:57.brand-new models of great cars and are one of the real success stories

:09:58. > :10:01.of the British economy and in general, Wilder have been

:10:02. > :10:05.conservatives in the Treasury and in Downing Street, car production in

:10:06. > :10:13.this country is up 50%. -- while there have been Conservatives. The

:10:14. > :10:18.Chancellor has promised an economic recovery for all felt in all parts

:10:19. > :10:25.of our nation. On the day the IMF has warned about the global economy

:10:26. > :10:28.and called for governments to increase public spending, will be

:10:29. > :10:35.Chancellor now reconsider his economic plan and his investment and

:10:36. > :10:41.in particular? The economic plan has seen employment, unemployment fall.

:10:42. > :10:46.It has meant that on those IMF forecasts the UK's forecast has not

:10:47. > :10:49.changed. It remains one of the strongest of all the advanced

:10:50. > :10:53.economies in the world. I might suggest he might want to treat his

:10:54. > :10:58.own economic policy, since in the last week he has called for the

:10:59. > :11:03.return of flying pickets, was to ban companies paying dividends, and

:11:04. > :11:06.wants to spend billions of pounds on nuclear missile submarines without

:11:07. > :11:12.any nuclear missiles. Today he said he will tour the country with the

:11:13. > :11:15.former Greek finance minister to educate us all about economics. I

:11:16. > :11:26.think the one thing they have in common is they have both lost their

:11:27. > :11:30.marbles. If the Chancellor will not reconsider his investment plans, can

:11:31. > :11:33.he at least appreciate how angry families of steelworkers South Wales

:11:34. > :11:39.are this morning knowing that when the bankers bonuses were threatened,

:11:40. > :11:44.he immediately shot across to Brussels with an army of lawyers to

:11:45. > :11:48.defend them. He will jump into a helicopter for a Tory fundraiser but

:11:49. > :11:55.it has taken him for months to lift a finger for a steelwork, to receive

:11:56. > :12:01.Steelworkers' jobs. Does that not prove he is actually the bankers'

:12:02. > :12:03.Chancellor? We want a successful financial services industry because

:12:04. > :12:10.hundreds of thousands of people across the country work in it.

:12:11. > :12:15.We have taken action to reduce energy costs, which hadn't happened

:12:16. > :12:20.previously, and that comes into effect today. That's why we're

:12:21. > :12:26.taking action to change procurement rules so that the British Government

:12:27. > :12:29.and others are encouraged to by British Steel, which never happened

:12:30. > :12:32.when the Labour Party were in office, and we are acting

:12:33. > :12:37.internationally to deal with things like the dumping of Chinese steel.

:12:38. > :12:39.Of course it is an incredibly difficult situation but, as he

:12:40. > :12:42.knows, and everyone in this House knows, there are steel jobs being

:12:43. > :12:46.lost in every single country in the world at the moment. The question

:12:47. > :12:50.is, what can you do nationally to defend your steel industry and

:12:51. > :12:53.protect it, and we are doing everything we can. If he has got

:12:54. > :13:02.constructive suggestions, he should put them to me. Number two, please.

:13:03. > :13:07.With permission, I'd like to group this question with question 13. The

:13:08. > :13:14.Financial Conduct Authority is an independent regulator. No Treasury

:13:15. > :13:16.minister or official had discussions with the SCA before it took the

:13:17. > :13:21.decision to continue this review. Given that the popular image of

:13:22. > :13:26.bankers right now is probably on a par with used-car salesmen or MPs,

:13:27. > :13:30.even, would she not agree with her honourable friend, the Member for

:13:31. > :13:35.wire forest, but to abort this review now, which could have looked

:13:36. > :13:40.at regulating challenger banks as well as historic mis-selling, is a

:13:41. > :13:46.missed opportunity all-round? Well, I find it hard to take lectures from

:13:47. > :13:51.the party opposite in terms of regulating the financial sector. In

:13:52. > :13:55.fact, since my right honourable friend became Chancellor, we set up

:13:56. > :13:58.the Financial Conduct Authority. We've moved on from the failed

:13:59. > :14:02.regulatory system that was there under the Labour government and we

:14:03. > :14:07.made it a criminal offence to manipulate the UK's key benchmark.

:14:08. > :14:10.We brought in the toughest rules on bankers' pay of any financial centre

:14:11. > :14:14.and we are bringing in a new criminal offence so that any senior

:14:15. > :14:20.managers whose reckless decisions bring down banks face jail time.

:14:21. > :14:23.With the terrible impact of bad banking practices that was

:14:24. > :14:27.highlighted in the Tomlinson report, particularly commercial lending to

:14:28. > :14:30.small businesses, still unresolved one of my constituents, does the

:14:31. > :14:33.Minister agree that both the public and small businesses still have

:14:34. > :14:38.significant concerns about the behaviour of many individuals in the

:14:39. > :14:41.banking sector? I completely agree with the honourable lady that we

:14:42. > :14:46.need to see the highest levels of conduct from the banking sector. We

:14:47. > :14:51.also need to continue to take steps in terms of our long-term economic

:14:52. > :14:56.plan to secure access to funding for small businesses, which is why we've

:14:57. > :15:00.taken steps to back peer-to-peer lending, with extended funding for

:15:01. > :15:04.lending for another two years and we continue to benefit from record low

:15:05. > :15:13.interest rates, axed our prudent to, management. There has certainly been

:15:14. > :15:17.speculation that the Treasury has influenced the SCA and one metres

:15:18. > :15:23.fanciful, it is important but that it was set up independently in 2012.

:15:24. > :15:28.But does my honourable friend agree that one of the ways that we could

:15:29. > :15:30.potentially underpin that independence of the Financial

:15:31. > :15:33.Conduct Authority would be to adopt a similar process that we have with

:15:34. > :15:38.the office of budget responsibility, whereby the Treasury committee can

:15:39. > :15:44.have a power of veto over the apartment of the chief Executive?

:15:45. > :15:48.The honourable gentleman, who is very constructive and engaged as a

:15:49. > :15:51.member of the Treasury select committee, I know we'll have the

:15:52. > :15:55.opportunity to ask westerns of the acting chief executive and the chair

:15:56. > :16:01.of the Financial Conduct Authority at his committee on Wednesday. But

:16:02. > :16:07.what I would agree is that it is very useful for the committees such

:16:08. > :16:15.as to have a pre-appointment hearing with any executive of the Financial

:16:16. > :16:18.Conduct Authority. The symphony interbank immigration software

:16:19. > :16:23.allows for the permanent deletion of e-mails and advertises itself as,

:16:24. > :16:26.this will save the banks billions of pounds in fines. Will the Minister

:16:27. > :16:30.join my campaigning conduction with the Secretary of State business to

:16:31. > :16:36.ensure that the FCA retains the encryption codes for the software as

:16:37. > :16:42.they do in America, for seven years? He asks a very salient question and,

:16:43. > :16:47.of course, it is something that the FCA is currently investigating and

:16:48. > :16:51.he will be aware that new rules in terms of a particular requirement

:16:52. > :16:55.will require firms to keep that information for a significant period

:16:56. > :16:58.of time at this the subject of ongoing discussion. With the

:16:59. > :17:01.Minister agree that one of the biggest problems in the banking

:17:02. > :17:06.culture is that banks are too big to fail and would she looked at the

:17:07. > :17:09.issue of diversity in the sector, including new lending platforms

:17:10. > :17:13.market disrupters, and would she looked, in particular, at new

:17:14. > :17:19.primary duties for the SCA to look the of diversity?

:17:20. > :17:23.Well, he will I'm sure welcomed the announcement that we are expecting

:17:24. > :17:27.on Wednesday from both the Bank of England and the FCA and the PRA to

:17:28. > :17:31.work together in terms of backing innovation in the financial sector.

:17:32. > :17:35.That is part of our long-term economic plan to back competition in

:17:36. > :17:38.the can accept and I'm pleased to say that in the last parliament

:17:39. > :17:46.there were eight new entrants to banking and did this parliament we

:17:47. > :17:51.are aiming to have 15. Interventions by HM Treasury and other bodies have

:17:52. > :17:55.raised questions regarding the ball's independence. Not my words

:17:56. > :18:00.but the words of an FCA commissioned external report regarding the SCA

:18:01. > :18:04.board which was published last week. How will the chancellor demonstrate

:18:05. > :18:07.that the appointment of the new Chief Executive of the FCA won't be

:18:08. > :18:14.an example of an overreaching chancellor trying to get his own

:18:15. > :18:18.way? Well, it was good of the honourable gentleman to turn up for

:18:19. > :18:22.Treasury questions this time. I guess there wasn't a stop the War

:18:23. > :18:26.march or a picket line to join today. But I can assure the

:18:27. > :18:30.honourable gentleman that the Treasury does have the power to

:18:31. > :18:34.appoint both the board and the Chief Executive, it sets the remit of the

:18:35. > :18:42.FCA but from then on it has operational independence. Number

:18:43. > :18:46.three. Latest ONS figures show real average weekly earnings were up 2.4%

:18:47. > :18:51.year-on-year in the three months to October. Wage growth has outstripped

:18:52. > :18:54.inflation for 13 consecutive months, the longest period of real wage

:18:55. > :18:57.growth since before the recession, and the OBR forecasts were to grow

:18:58. > :19:03.faster than in elation over the next five years. -- than inflation. Does

:19:04. > :19:08.he agree with me that the key to delivering further wage growth,

:19:09. > :19:13.particularly in rural areas like Somerset, is improving the skills

:19:14. > :19:18.base, which underpins the Chancellor's economic plan for the

:19:19. > :19:21.South West? He is quite right. Last year will be hourly pay of the

:19:22. > :19:26.average Somerset employee grew well in excess of CPI inflation. The

:19:27. > :19:30.south-west has a particularly strong rate of employment but driving real

:19:31. > :19:39.wage growth we have to see productivity gains, hence the focus

:19:40. > :19:44.on making sure we have an attractive tax regime that brings jobs to that

:19:45. > :19:51.region and this country. There are 400,000 fewer people earning over

:19:52. > :19:56.?20,000 and there were in 2010 because the Chancellor has been

:19:57. > :20:02.cutting up full-time jobs and replacing them with more part-time,

:20:03. > :20:05.low-paid jobs. What is he doing to lift productivity, research and

:20:06. > :20:11.development to raise average wages and to raise median wages as well?

:20:12. > :20:17.The lowest earners experience the fastest growth in medium earnings

:20:18. > :20:21.last year and recent growth has been dominated by full-time workers in

:20:22. > :20:27.contrast to what he says. We have comprehends a plan for driving

:20:28. > :20:32.productivity and the national living wage is a very dramatic, long-term

:20:33. > :20:37.structural change. Number four, Mr Speaker. Our long-term plan is to

:20:38. > :20:42.turn round a decades-old economic divide between North and south by

:20:43. > :20:45.building a northern powerhouse. We said we would create powerful new

:20:46. > :20:48.elected mayors. That's happening. We said we'd speed up transport

:20:49. > :20:53.connections across the North and we committed 13 billion of investment.

:20:54. > :20:56.And into my honourable friend's Cumbria, there is a new enterprise

:20:57. > :21:00.zone, new parents and nuclear research. The North is growing under

:21:01. > :21:04.this government and we will do everything we can to keep it growing

:21:05. > :21:08.strongly. I, like many of my constituents in Carlisle and

:21:09. > :21:11.Cumbria, hope to be very much part of the northern powerhouse. Part of

:21:12. > :21:15.this is ensuring that the private sector investor grows skills and of

:21:16. > :21:18.the structure and then there is the proposed Cumbrian deal. Can the

:21:19. > :21:23.Chancellor assure me that everything is being done from the government's

:21:24. > :21:28.perspective to achieve this deal, and will an elected mayor be part of

:21:29. > :21:31.it? As my honourable friend knows, and he is a real champion not just

:21:32. > :21:36.of Carlisle but of Cumbria and the Cumbrian economy, we are working

:21:37. > :21:40.with local authority leaders and other elected representatives on

:21:41. > :21:44.whether we can have a new governance arrangement in Cumbria which might

:21:45. > :21:47.include an elected mayor. This is a decision for Cumbria but they have

:21:48. > :21:52.come to us with this proposal and we are working hard with the people of

:21:53. > :21:55.Cumbria to see whether we can get an arrangement that boosts jobs, boost

:21:56. > :22:02.investment and makes sure that decisions that affect Cumbria are

:22:03. > :22:08.taken in Cumbria. Does the northern powerhouse occur in Redcar, where

:22:09. > :22:15.the steel industry has been closed because of him allowing the Chinese

:22:16. > :22:18.to break steel? Are they talking about it at Scunthorpe, where

:22:19. > :22:22.they've lost more than 1000 jobs? Are they talking about it at Port

:22:23. > :22:27.Talbot, where they are going to lose a lot more jobs? The truth is, they

:22:28. > :22:31.don't talk about the northern powerhouse in the coalfields where

:22:32. > :22:34.the Tories have shot the last three pits. They call it the northern Peru

:22:35. > :22:50.house. That's its real name. -- He seems to forget that the Redcar

:22:51. > :22:53.works closed under the Labour government that he supports. It is

:22:54. > :22:56.also the case that during that government but he supported from

:22:57. > :23:01.that bench there, the number of steel jobs lost in this country was

:23:02. > :23:03.30,000. We are doing everything we can to preserve the steel jobs that

:23:04. > :23:09.remain. We are working with the steel industry. We have ceded to

:23:10. > :23:12.almost all their requests we are looking to the last one, which is

:23:13. > :23:15.changes to business rates, which never happened under a Labour

:23:16. > :23:19.government, and we will report in the budget on that. We are working

:23:20. > :23:23.to make this a competitive place to do business and if one really

:23:24. > :23:27.adopted the policies of the party opposite, where you don't pay

:23:28. > :23:31.dividends to investors and you reintroduce flying pickets, do you

:23:32. > :23:39.really think a single overseas investor would be expanding their

:23:40. > :23:43.business in the UK? Number five. The government is fighting hard to fix

:23:44. > :23:47.the aspects of our EU membership, the cause of so much restriction in

:23:48. > :23:50.the UK, so we get a better deal for our country and secure our future.

:23:51. > :23:54.We are confident that the right agreement can be reached. Jaguar

:23:55. > :24:00.Land Rover have recently announced that they're going to double the

:24:01. > :24:02.investment in a brand-new engine plant in my constituency, creating

:24:03. > :24:06.hundreds of additional jobs on top of the 1400 they have or the amount.

:24:07. > :24:11.Does the Minister agree with me that unfettered access to the single

:24:12. > :24:17.market dries this sort of investment and if we were to walk away or

:24:18. > :24:24.sacrifice that access, those jobs and that investment could be put at

:24:25. > :24:30.risk? First of all, I also welcome the new jobs being created near her

:24:31. > :24:35.constituency by Jaguar Land Rover. My honourable friend the Chancellor

:24:36. > :24:38.visited that site very recently. In terms of our relationship with the

:24:39. > :24:43.EU, the position of the Government is very clear. We want the benefits

:24:44. > :24:46.of access to the single market but there are also aspects of our

:24:47. > :24:50.relationship with the EU which can be improved upon and that's what we

:24:51. > :24:58.are seeking to do in our renegotiation. Given that last year

:24:59. > :25:03.we had a ?62 billion trade deficit with the European Union and given

:25:04. > :25:06.that if we left the EU, the UK would be the EU's single biggest export

:25:07. > :25:11.market, does the Minister think we could have a free trade agreement

:25:12. > :25:15.with the EU from outside the European Union without handing over

:25:16. > :25:23.?19 billion a year in membership fees? Well, I'm sure that that issue

:25:24. > :25:27.will be one of the issues discussed at length during the referendum

:25:28. > :25:31.debate, and the point is that under this government, the British people

:25:32. > :25:41.will have an opportunity to express its views on where our future lies.

:25:42. > :25:45.Britain has been a substantial net contributor to the EU budget. For 40

:25:46. > :25:49.years this has had a negative effect on UK growth in GDP, the cumulative

:25:50. > :25:55.effect of which has been very large. Would not leaving the EU help UK

:25:56. > :26:00.growth? I suppose 1.I would beg to the honourable member is that thanks

:26:01. > :26:03.to Margaret Thatcher's renegotiation of the rebate and thanks to the

:26:04. > :26:11.current Prime Minister's ago she Asian of the EU budget, resulting in

:26:12. > :26:16.a real terms cut, we are paying less than we would have done. -- by

:26:17. > :26:27.minister's renegotiation of the EU budget. Nonsense.

:26:28. > :26:32.Would she not agree that it would be important to pay the real living

:26:33. > :26:37.wage, ?8 25 per hour, in the rest of the UK and ?9 40 in London, as is

:26:38. > :26:41.done by the Scottish Government and over 400 employees in Scotland, so

:26:42. > :26:47.that it is fair for all employees, particularly those under 25? I'm

:26:48. > :26:52.glad she welcomes the fact that, as of April this year, all employees

:26:53. > :26:55.across the whole of the UK over 25 will be getting a significant pay

:26:56. > :27:01.rise, and that's thanks to the strength of employment across the

:27:02. > :27:08.UK, which is thanks to our long-term economic plan.

:27:09. > :27:17.By my calculation someone earns ?7.85 per hour today will be

:27:18. > :27:23.benefiting and by the end of this parliament will be more than ?1500

:27:24. > :27:26.later. Does my honourable friend agree that this shows that

:27:27. > :27:31.Government is committed to making work pay? The honourable member

:27:32. > :27:38.makes an excellent point, and in fact it has been highlighted that it

:27:39. > :27:42.is not just that 2.5 million people will be directly benefiting from the

:27:43. > :27:47.change to the National Living Wage, but also to 6 million people who

:27:48. > :27:56.make salaries and very close to that hourly rate. When is the Chancellor

:27:57. > :28:02.and the present Minister going to give public sector workers a decent

:28:03. > :28:07.pay rise for the jobs that they do frost? Of course we believe that

:28:08. > :28:11.every worker in this country will benefit from the change to the

:28:12. > :28:15.National Living Wage, because it is an important part of the long-term

:28:16. > :28:21.economic plan. But he will know that this year public sector workers

:28:22. > :28:26.actually received raises that work above inflation. The Minister has

:28:27. > :28:32.spoken importantly about the principle of making work pay. Will

:28:33. > :28:35.she give further consideration to extending married couples' tax

:28:36. > :28:44.allowance so that more families can keep more of what they earn? I will

:28:45. > :28:50.take that as a budget 's omission. -- budget submission. The Government

:28:51. > :28:58.is backing business by cutting their taxes. To support small businesses

:28:59. > :29:06.the employment allowance will rise in April and we are doubling

:29:07. > :29:13.business small rate relief. We will back companies not punish them with

:29:14. > :29:30.the anti-business nonsense we hear from the party opposite. Will be

:29:31. > :29:36.Chancellor join me in congratulating... I John with my

:29:37. > :29:43.honourable friend in congratulating the work they are doing in investing

:29:44. > :29:46.on South Wales transport infrastructure. We are back in

:29:47. > :29:50.companies with this annual investment allowance of ?200,000,

:29:51. > :29:56.the highest level it has ever been. Will the Chancellor tell us what

:29:57. > :30:02.step he ensures to take to make sure the quarterly tax returns coming in

:30:03. > :30:05.2020 will not harm small businesses in constituencies like mine and

:30:06. > :30:11.actually affected their productivity and their ability to make profits?

:30:12. > :30:15.My honourable friend is right that the objective of what we are seeking

:30:16. > :30:19.to do is to make it easier for businesses and individuals to

:30:20. > :30:24.complete their tax returns by making use of modern digital technology and

:30:25. > :30:28.introducing a simple and secure at personalised digital tax account. We

:30:29. > :30:36.estimate it will reduce the administrative cost to businesses.

:30:37. > :30:39.The best way to support manufacturing businesses in the

:30:40. > :30:43.Midlands would be to free the region from London's control. The region

:30:44. > :30:51.has been stifled by Whitehall for too long. To strengthen the economy,

:30:52. > :30:58.develop Brownfield sites and tackle congestion, we will deliver new

:30:59. > :31:02.homes. We have a deal. That is exactly what we are doing with the

:31:03. > :31:06.west Midlands and we worked across different political parties. I have

:31:07. > :31:10.met with Labour and Conservative authority leaders and members of

:31:11. > :31:13.Parliament from both parties in the West Midlands who collectively

:31:14. > :31:18.agreed to have an elected mayor and you have significant powers from the

:31:19. > :31:22.Government to the people of the West midlands. I think it is one of the

:31:23. > :31:29.most exciting step forward in the devolution of power in this country.

:31:30. > :31:38.What further discussions have taken place in devolved administrations

:31:39. > :31:42.about the introduction of fiscal incentives for apprenticeships and

:31:43. > :31:44.economic growth? We are in discussion with the Northern

:31:45. > :31:51.Ireland's executive about what we can do to support the economy. One

:31:52. > :31:56.of the things we would really like to see is the devolution of

:31:57. > :32:00.corporation tax rates which we have legislated for and provided we can

:32:01. > :32:06.reach agreement on the budget implications of that that would be a

:32:07. > :32:09.massive boost for Northern Irish businesses. I welcome the chance

:32:10. > :32:14.were's reduction in the corporation tax that has helped so many jobs to

:32:15. > :32:20.be created. Does he agree that some businesses cannot grow despite this

:32:21. > :32:24.measure because of a local infrastructure constraints such as

:32:25. > :32:31.those that need addressing in my constituency? My honourable friend

:32:32. > :32:35.is absolutely right. We are investing in transport

:32:36. > :32:38.infrastructure in the Southampton area and along the south coast

:32:39. > :32:41.because we understand that all parts of the country can benefit from

:32:42. > :32:45.additional investment in transport infrastructure. That is why we are

:32:46. > :32:49.increasingly transport budget even at a time when public budgets are

:32:50. > :32:55.tight. None of these things would be affordable if you crash the economy.

:32:56. > :32:59.The introduction of quarterly reporting for tax returns has been

:33:00. > :33:01.described by the Institute for chartered accountants at an

:33:02. > :33:06.additional burden for business. Does he understand the very real anger

:33:07. > :33:11.among businesses and my constituency and around the country that they are

:33:12. > :33:16.being penalised while many of the largest corporations are allowed to

:33:17. > :33:21.avoid a tax altogether? We have increased our action against

:33:22. > :33:25.large-scale corporate tax avoidance and evasion, and the new diverted

:33:26. > :33:29.profits tax is designed to deal with the very real anger that people

:33:30. > :33:31.feel, particularly in the small-business community, when the

:33:32. > :33:37.see large businesses not being taxed. We are dealing also with the

:33:38. > :33:41.burdens of tax administration, consulting with small businesses. It

:33:42. > :33:46.would be crazy as a country not to make use of new digital technology

:33:47. > :33:49.and the Internet to update and modernise our tax collection system,

:33:50. > :33:52.and we would regret not taking those steps today as we let other

:33:53. > :34:01.countries power ahead and reduce the burdens on business. Mr Speaker, the

:34:02. > :34:06.Government has taken a range of steps to reduce the trade deficit.

:34:07. > :34:11.The 2010, UK TI has more than doubled the number of businesses

:34:12. > :34:17.supported and UK Export Finance has provided more than 15 billion pounds

:34:18. > :34:22.of support. Allies are earlier this month when I met entrepreneurs in

:34:23. > :34:25.Edinburgh, many start-ups and exporters in Scotland greatly

:34:26. > :34:37.appreciate the UK TI systems. And welcome the Government's

:34:38. > :34:40.announcement this morning. It is not credible for the Minister to

:34:41. > :34:44.continue with a policy which has failed and resulted last year in a

:34:45. > :34:48.deficit in the trade of goods. We all want to see reduced dependence

:34:49. > :34:53.on consumer debt, but is it not time for him to admit the UK Government

:34:54. > :35:00.policy has failed. I gently suggest revision. The trade deficit is

:35:01. > :35:05.actually improving and the Cheryl GDP and is expected to continue to

:35:06. > :35:09.do so in the OBR forecast. What I can say, what would be an absolute

:35:10. > :35:17.disaster would BDSM people's Mac policy of call fiscal independence

:35:18. > :35:24.-- the SNP's policy. Added to which would be the collapse in oil price.

:35:25. > :35:32.Revenues would be down this year a staggering 94%. This would be a

:35:33. > :35:35.disaster for Scotland. I welcome the Commons made earlier by the

:35:36. > :35:40.Chancellor about export initiatives to India, but will my honourable

:35:41. > :35:46.friend welcome the enjoy -- join me in welcoming efforts to boost

:35:47. > :35:52.exports in the north-west the Northern Powerhouse? I very much and

:35:53. > :35:56.my honourable friend in welcoming that, particularly with reference to

:35:57. > :36:04.exporters to China and India which have been a great success. The UK TI

:36:05. > :36:11.is doing what it can to support this, and providing tailored support

:36:12. > :36:18.for first-time exporters, and additional 20 million, and

:36:19. > :36:27.supporting Northern Powerhouse trade solutions. The British Chambers of

:36:28. > :36:32.commerce are reporting that it will take not four years but another 18

:36:33. > :36:40.years. Will be Chancellor not accept that this is clearer evidence that

:36:41. > :36:45.his effort to reduce the trade deficit are failing and will

:36:46. > :36:50.continue to fail? I think the UK has a good future in terms of the trade

:36:51. > :36:54.deficit and improving statistics. In terms of UK TI, I think the UK TI

:36:55. > :37:00.will also be playing an important role. The announcements we made

:37:01. > :37:03.today on trade policy, one of the most important things we can be

:37:04. > :37:08.doing at the Hall of Government approach is improving the approach

:37:09. > :37:14.we take to trade and boosting our exports. In South Thanet we have a

:37:15. > :37:20.niche amusement machine manufacturer, and the supply global

:37:21. > :37:25.export markets. What help and support can my honourable friend

:37:26. > :37:30.offer so that we can really achieve that cross Government approach to

:37:31. > :37:36.exports that has been lodged today -- launched today? I have been quite

:37:37. > :37:41.a few times to his constituency over the last year and a half. I don't

:37:42. > :37:44.think I have had the particular pleasure of meeting with that

:37:45. > :37:48.company, but I'm happy to meet with my honourable friend and with that

:37:49. > :37:58.company to see what could be done to help exporters in South Thanet. The

:37:59. > :38:02.concrete products industry used to have a surplus on the balance of

:38:03. > :38:07.payments but no has a deficit of hundreds of millions of pounds. This

:38:08. > :38:11.is due to the levy on products made in the United Kingdom but not on

:38:12. > :38:15.imported products and has been thousands of jobs in jeopardy. With

:38:16. > :38:22.the Minister consider imposing the same tax on goods produced abroad as

:38:23. > :38:27.is imposed on goods produced here in the UK? I am happy to look in detail

:38:28. > :38:30.at the points he raised. My understanding is there have been

:38:31. > :38:34.legal challenges to aspects of the aggregates Levy which are prevented

:38:35. > :38:38.us from addressing some of these issues, but I'm happy to engage with

:38:39. > :38:51.him on an ongoing basis to see what could be done better. Since 2010 we

:38:52. > :38:56.have cut corporation tax and will cut its further to eating percent by

:38:57. > :39:04.2020. Yup then the annual investment level at its highest ever level. --

:39:05. > :39:11.we have set. And UK TI announced today support for exporters. Is the

:39:12. > :39:14.minister concerned about recent figures showing the manufacturing

:39:15. > :39:20.sector is back in recession and what is he intend to do about it? We have

:39:21. > :39:23.to get behind the manufacturing sector, that is at the heart of this

:39:24. > :39:28.Government's approach and long-term economic plan and the heart of the

:39:29. > :39:32.productivity plan. Do things like giving enhanced access to leading

:39:33. > :39:36.technologies and catapult centres, things like the apprenticeship where

:39:37. > :39:40.the making sure we build up our skills, making sure we attract more

:39:41. > :39:49.teachers and to stem subjects, and a whole range of other initiatives.

:39:50. > :39:55.Can I have my honourable friend what steps are being taken to assist and

:39:56. > :40:01.encourage small businesses to become expanding, exporting businesses? --

:40:02. > :40:08.can I ask? UK TI has an ambition to increase the number of exporting

:40:09. > :40:11.businesses. There are a number of aspects of that, moving to more

:40:12. > :40:19.direct support as well as advice from some of the leading export

:40:20. > :40:24.agencies in the world. And making sure that we leverage existing

:40:25. > :40:31.Government relationships with firms and sectors for the whole of

:40:32. > :40:36.Government approach. The UK economy is still to dependent on consumer

:40:37. > :40:41.spending to drive growth and the Government should start being sought

:40:42. > :40:46.complacent and self-congratulatory. With the risk of Brexit this year

:40:47. > :40:51.only making things worse, what will this Government do to expand

:40:52. > :40:56.manufacturing exports? Exports are a challenge. There has been a

:40:57. > :41:00.long-term change in the UK's share of world trade, but I would say the

:41:01. > :41:11.majority of it came before 2010. An honest point about -- on his point

:41:12. > :41:13.about business expense of -- consumption expenditure... Will my

:41:14. > :41:18.honourable friend please agree with me that supporting engineering and

:41:19. > :41:21.manufacturing is absolutely essential to our economy and

:41:22. > :41:25.productivity and we must do all we can to address the skills gap that

:41:26. > :41:29.is threatening local jobs and businesses in my constituency and

:41:30. > :41:32.around the country? I absolutely agree with my honourable friend

:41:33. > :41:39.about the importance of engineering and the evidence that was shown in

:41:40. > :41:44.the spending review and Autumn Statement with enhanced support for

:41:45. > :41:46.science as well as the apprenticeship levy which is an

:41:47. > :41:55.important structural change in the way we invest in our skills base.

:41:56. > :42:01.Five years ago the Chancellor said he would rebalance the economy

:42:02. > :42:04.towards manufacturing, exports and the regions. The Director General of

:42:05. > :42:08.the British Chamber of Commerce recently said, and I quote, none of

:42:09. > :42:17.those things have actually transpired in practice yet. Why not?

:42:18. > :42:21.Mr Speaker, we are rebalancing the economy and it is a long-term and

:42:22. > :42:26.sustained programme. It is the long-term economic plan. We have

:42:27. > :42:30.talked about some of the enhanced support for science, technology,

:42:31. > :42:34.engineering and mathematics, and the apprenticeship levy, the catapult

:42:35. > :42:38.centres giving British business access to the best in leading-edge

:42:39. > :42:41.technology. There are some things in international trade we cannot

:42:42. > :42:45.control. There is bad news from China. We cannot control the world

:42:46. > :42:50.exchange rates but there are things we can control in terms of

:42:51. > :42:52.supporting tissue exporters and we are absolutely doing those. There we

:42:53. > :43:08.go again. It is everybody's fault but this

:43:09. > :43:10.government. But here is the truth. The Chancellor promised to boost

:43:11. > :43:12.manufacturing but instead it is in recession. Manufacturing output is

:43:13. > :43:16.6.1% below its previous crisis peak and falling. The British Chamber of

:43:17. > :43:18.Commerce's survey found manufacturing post to stagnation

:43:19. > :43:24.with export, sales and orders falling. And yet instead of helping

:43:25. > :43:26.the sector, the Chancellor close to the manufacturing advice service in

:43:27. > :43:32.November without so much as a mention. Is it not true that British

:43:33. > :43:38.businesses and families are now paying a heavy price for this

:43:39. > :43:45.Chancellor's feelings? -- failings. That is not true. This promotion is

:43:46. > :43:49.at the heart of the government's approach. We should not forget that

:43:50. > :43:53.services are a big part of the economy, a bigger part. The overall

:43:54. > :43:57.performance of the British economy is that we have the highest growth

:43:58. > :44:03.rate of the G-7 countries in 2014, and the joint highest in 2015. We

:44:04. > :44:14.have rising real wages and more people in jobs than ever before.

:44:15. > :44:18.Question ten, Mr Speaker. Following on, employment stands at 31.3

:44:19. > :44:23.million, which as I have just said, is more people in work than ever

:44:24. > :44:26.before. In the past year, growth has been driven by full-time employees

:44:27. > :44:31.in high and medium skilled jobs, showing we are moving to the next

:44:32. > :44:33.phase of the recovery with high-quality employment boosting

:44:34. > :44:40.productivity and living standards nationwide. I thank the Minister for

:44:41. > :44:45.his reply. In my constituency, youth unemployment has halved in the last

:44:46. > :44:49.year and it is now lower for the whole of the West Midlands. Will the

:44:50. > :44:51.Minister agree with me that this is excellent news for Telford and it

:44:52. > :44:59.shows that the economic plan is working? I am delighted with that

:45:00. > :45:03.news from my honourable friend's constituency and I agree with her.

:45:04. > :45:08.Across the West Midlands, youth unemployment has fallen by almost a

:45:09. > :45:14.quarter, with the rate returning to prerecession levels. Westminster saw

:45:15. > :45:19.the fastest growth in earnings among the English regions and there are

:45:20. > :45:24.140,000 more people in work than 2010. One of the leading employers

:45:25. > :45:28.in Stoke on Trent is the supplement industry and part of the growth in

:45:29. > :45:33.recent years has been due to the anti-dumping ruling by the EU on

:45:34. > :45:36.subsidised Chinese imports. Shamefully, the British Government

:45:37. > :45:40.opposed this. Will the Minister now commit the government to supporting

:45:41. > :45:45.the renewal of this anti-dumping ruling when it comes up? The

:45:46. > :45:50.government of course raises all issues about dumping and unfair

:45:51. > :45:55.trade practices as and when they come up. I would be happy to look at

:45:56. > :46:02.what he's saying about ceramics in Stoke-on-Trent. 12, Mr Speaker. HMRC

:46:03. > :46:06.announced its location strategy on the 12th of November and as I have

:46:07. > :46:13.stated, delivering that strategy will help HMRC to deliver more for

:46:14. > :46:17.less and reduce costs by 2025. I and HMRC have received representations

:46:18. > :46:23.from interested parties, most recently with my honourable friends,

:46:24. > :46:26.the members for Rochdale and the south-west. Following the meeting

:46:27. > :46:34.that my honourable friend had with myself and the honourable friend for

:46:35. > :46:37.Rochdale, would my honourable friend reflect further on the points made

:46:38. > :46:43.about Southend are becoming a regional centre. Will he make sure

:46:44. > :46:50.that the hard work, dedicated staff of Alexandra house are treated well?

:46:51. > :46:53.-- the hard-working. My honourable friend made his representations in a

:46:54. > :47:00.robust and fourth White Way in our meeting yesterday and I'm sure that

:47:01. > :47:06.HMRC are reflecting on that. -- robust and forthright. Redeeming the

:47:07. > :47:08.staff relocated, the staff will have additional transport costs

:47:09. > :47:11.compensated for for up to three years. And they will also benefit

:47:12. > :47:21.from London weighting, given that they will be moving from Stratford.

:47:22. > :47:26.Is anything going to be done about the depressing handling of HMRC and

:47:27. > :47:29.can the Minister suggest an improvement? Coal handling is at a

:47:30. > :47:35.higher level than it has been for many years. It was certainly the

:47:36. > :47:39.case that in spring of last year, coal handling standards were not at

:47:40. > :47:47.an acceptable level. HMRC have made improvements to that and I hope they

:47:48. > :47:53.will continue to make that progress. Number 14, please, Mr Speaker. The

:47:54. > :47:57.government is exploring options to ensure that the England and Wales

:47:58. > :48:00.illegal moneylending teams have the funding they need to ensure that

:48:01. > :48:03.consumers continue to be protected from illegal loan sharks and is

:48:04. > :48:12.confident of transitional arrangements being agreed. Too many

:48:13. > :48:16.of my constituents are victims of loan sharks. The illegal

:48:17. > :48:20.moneylending team has helped nearly 24,000 across the country yet this

:48:21. > :48:25.government has treated this service with disdain. Won't the cuts to this

:48:26. > :48:32.vital team and to local trading standards make the poorest more

:48:33. > :48:36.vulnerable? Far from agreeing with his point, we are finding ways to

:48:37. > :48:40.put this team on a sustainable basis going forward to continue the

:48:41. > :48:44.valuable work that they do protecting people from illegal

:48:45. > :48:52.moneylending. Topical questions, Gareth Johnson. Question one. The

:48:53. > :48:57.core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the stability and prosperity

:48:58. > :49:02.of the economy. I exit fees act as a disincentive for people to take

:49:03. > :49:06.advantage of flexible pensions. Does the Chancellor agree with me that

:49:07. > :49:12.tackling these higher fees is essential to give people freedom

:49:13. > :49:14.over their own pensions? My honourable friend raises an

:49:15. > :49:19.important issue. The pension freedoms we have introduced have

:49:20. > :49:23.been widely welcomed. We have over 700,000 people eligible to pay some

:49:24. > :49:26.form of early exit charge. The government is not prepared to stand

:49:27. > :49:30.by and see people ripped off or blocked from accessing their own

:49:31. > :49:34.money by excessive charges. We have listened to the concerns and the

:49:35. > :49:39.newspaper campaigns that have been run. Today, we are known to change

:49:40. > :49:43.the law to place a duty on the Financial Conduct Authority to cap

:49:44. > :49:46.excessive early exit charges, and we are determined that people who have

:49:47. > :49:52.done the right thing and saved responsibly are able to access their

:49:53. > :49:56.pensions fairly. Mr Speaker, recent statistics show that household debt

:49:57. > :50:01.is now at a record high. Back in 2010, the Chancellor promised to

:50:02. > :50:05.move from an economy built on debt to an economy that saves. Can the

:50:06. > :50:12.Chancellor confirmed today why the figures contradict his original

:50:13. > :50:19.promise? Isil debt as a proportion of household income was 168% in 2008

:50:20. > :50:24.and today it is 142%, so it has fallen. -- household debt. This

:50:25. > :50:27.Chancellor has given more than any before him towards the cause of

:50:28. > :50:31.looking after our veterans in this country and for that I thank him

:50:32. > :50:36.wholeheartedly. Does he agree that whilst the charity sector has a key

:50:37. > :50:39.role to play, ultimately there is a state responsibility and we must

:50:40. > :50:45.make sure that government money is used on Intel agreed measured

:50:46. > :50:49.treatments for our veterans and their families? -- empirically

:50:50. > :50:52.measured. My honourable friend has personal experience in this area and

:50:53. > :50:56.represents a constituency that has given so much to the defence of our

:50:57. > :51:01.nation. He is right that as well as the live or fines, which were used

:51:02. > :51:04.for one-off causes to help military charities, we have the Armed Forces

:51:05. > :51:08.covenant and the annual commitment to support veterans. I'm always

:51:09. > :51:15.happy to look at specific projects that we can invest in or on going

:51:16. > :51:20.concerns we can deal with. The collapse of UK manufacturing has

:51:21. > :51:26.been going on for 50 years, from 30% of the economy in the 1970s to less

:51:27. > :51:34.than 10% today. More than 20% of all jobs in the 1980s, to only 8% today.

:51:35. > :51:37.Given the length of the decline, why has the government not made

:51:38. > :51:43.manufacturing and exports one of its top priorities? We have backed our

:51:44. > :51:46.manufacturers and our exporters and we have cut corporation tax and cut

:51:47. > :51:51.other taxes that affect these businesses. We have reformed UK

:51:52. > :51:54.Trade Investment and as a result, the manufacturing sector is a larger

:51:55. > :51:57.share of our economy than it was when I became Chancellor but there

:51:58. > :52:01.is a lot more to do. I would say to her and the Scottish Government, we

:52:02. > :52:04.want to work more closely with Scotland on overseas trade missions

:52:05. > :52:08.where we can promote Scottish businesses. We do not always get

:52:09. > :52:14.that cooperation but hopefully it will be forthcoming in the future.

:52:15. > :52:18.Whilst I welcome the government's move towards the digitalisation of

:52:19. > :52:25.tax, a number of small businesses and self across my region,

:52:26. > :52:30.approximately 74% of them employ less than four people and they have

:52:31. > :52:32.voiced concerns about the negative affect on their financial resources,

:52:33. > :52:37.depending on their alliance with a county. Could my honourable friend

:52:38. > :52:44.outline what support will be provided to our small businesses to

:52:45. > :52:48.help adapt to the proposed changes? First of all, can I reassure the

:52:49. > :52:53.House that there are no plans for quarterly tax returns as has been

:52:54. > :52:59.reported. What HMRC are looking at is making greater use of digital

:53:00. > :53:01.technology and that information is provided to HMRC more regularly. My

:53:02. > :53:06.honourable friend raises an important point about ensuring that

:53:07. > :53:09.there is support for businesses as they adapt to new ways of keeping

:53:10. > :53:20.records and that is something that HMRC is determined to do. The

:53:21. > :53:25.Midlands engine has been turbo-charged with recent figures

:53:26. > :53:29.showing four Staffordshire constituencies in the top seven of

:53:30. > :53:34.those ranked by the extent of falling claimant rates between May

:53:35. > :53:42.of 2010 and November 2015, with Canada to chase being ranked fourth.

:53:43. > :53:46.What matters is my honourable friend undertaking to make sure we maintain

:53:47. > :53:51.this positive momentum? There has been good news in Cannock and across

:53:52. > :53:57.the Midlands and employment is up in her constituency. Since coming to

:53:58. > :54:00.this House, she has been a champion of the businesses in her area, we

:54:01. > :54:05.are working together to give more power to people in the West

:54:06. > :54:09.Midlands, to take control of the decisions that affect them. I

:54:10. > :54:11.welcome her support for that. We are investing in transport

:54:12. > :54:18.infrastructure and backing science in the West Midlands as well. If she

:54:19. > :54:22.has specific ideas to help businesses in Cannock Chase, my door

:54:23. > :54:28.is open. Can I ask the Chancellor how on earth a ?42 million cut over

:54:29. > :54:32.the next two years to the UK TI budget will enable the UK to become

:54:33. > :54:39.a world-class export and investment promotion agency? We have set out

:54:40. > :54:42.today the strategy to give more direct help to our exporters across

:54:43. > :54:46.the United Kingdom and Lord Maude presented at the proposals to

:54:47. > :54:50.cabinets to do that. But getting lectures on public finances from the

:54:51. > :54:53.SNP, we would be heading towards the break-up of our country in two

:54:54. > :54:56.months' time if the people of Scotland have listened to the

:54:57. > :55:01.arguments of the Scottish Nationalists. Their calculation is

:55:02. > :55:06.were based on an oil price of $115, which the Member for Gordon

:55:07. > :55:11.described as a conservative estimate at the time. The oil price is now

:55:12. > :55:15.last than $30 and it would've been a catastrophe for the people of

:55:16. > :55:17.Scotland. -- less than $30. It would been a catastrophe if they had

:55:18. > :55:22.listened to the advice and figures of the SNP.

:55:23. > :55:27.Whatever it is the government making to widen access to basic bank

:55:28. > :55:33.accounts? -- what matters is the government making. I am delighted to

:55:34. > :55:38.tell my constituency neighbour that at the end of last year we did

:55:39. > :55:42.announce that all the major banks are now able to offer a basic bank

:55:43. > :55:49.account to customers who require one. Many of my constituents who

:55:50. > :55:54.watch Coronation Street will be following the story of Tyrone Dodds,

:55:55. > :55:58.struggling with debt, with keen interest. Unsecured lending reached

:55:59. > :56:03.a record high last year with over 3 million people in debt. The

:56:04. > :56:06.government promised to review what creditors should give the people

:56:07. > :56:10.engaged with a debt charities that their debts to not continue to

:56:11. > :56:14.spiral out of control as they work to resolve them. That was due by the

:56:15. > :56:19.end of 2015. When does the government plan to announce that? I

:56:20. > :56:23.have just touched on that in answers to questions earlier, but the

:56:24. > :56:28.importance that we place on the team that will tackle illegal

:56:29. > :56:34.moneylending. But also, we have continued to support funding for

:56:35. > :56:38.debt advice including excellent organisations like Christians

:56:39. > :56:39.against poverty, step change and citizens advice, to help individuals

:56:40. > :56:49.like the ones she mentioned. On Friday I visited Barclay's Bank

:56:50. > :56:52.in Kingston to hear about the fantastic Barclays life skills

:56:53. > :56:57.course which teaches young people, among other things, financial

:56:58. > :57:02.literacy. I can see some candidates for the course here. By making

:57:03. > :57:06.financial education more accessible, to she agreed that we can ensure the

:57:07. > :57:11.financial sector itself supports young people and people through

:57:12. > :57:15.every stage of their lives? I am delighted that he found his

:57:16. > :57:21.visit to Barclays Bank in his constituency so helpful, he will

:57:22. > :57:27.welcome the fact that since 2014, financial education has been part of

:57:28. > :57:30.the national curriculum. Conservative leader of Essex County

:57:31. > :57:34.Council has told the Prime Minister that the 2% social care precept will

:57:35. > :57:39.only cover half the council's increased costs. He has suggested

:57:40. > :57:42.bringing better care funding forward to 2017 and asks for a fairer

:57:43. > :57:47.redistribution of funds. Even Conservative councils had to wait

:57:48. > :57:52.until 2019 for the funding that the Chancellor is allocated. Will he act

:57:53. > :57:57.now to avoid a further crisis in social care? What I can say is that

:57:58. > :58:02.in advance of the spending review, the Conservative leaders of the LGA

:58:03. > :58:06.came to me, one of their specific oppose laws was to introduce the

:58:07. > :58:12.social care precept to help address the shortfall that might otherwise

:58:13. > :58:17.have been. We have put a lot of money into the Better Care Than to

:58:18. > :58:20.make sure that local authorities and the NHS working together are able to

:58:21. > :58:29.meet the challenges of social care over the next few years. Inaudible

:58:30. > :58:34.in boosting the economy has been the creation of enterprise zones. I

:58:35. > :58:38.wonder if he would talk about creating an enterprise zone in the

:58:39. > :58:43.northern part of Nottinghamshire? I know that area and have been to the

:58:44. > :58:46.site with my honourable friend. We were not able to give the go-ahead

:58:47. > :58:50.to the enterprise zone because the business case did not quite stack

:58:51. > :58:54.up, but I have committed to him that I will work with him and the local

:58:55. > :59:00.community to try to get that over the line and get an enterprise zone

:59:01. > :59:08.in place in that area. I had just shared a packed meeting

:59:09. > :59:14.with the honourable member for South Northamptonshire. There was a lot of

:59:15. > :59:18.anger to axe the funding for the CC competition projects. What a funding

:59:19. > :59:31.will the Chancellor provide to come up with a new CC is project? -- CCS

:59:32. > :59:32.project? Help we will double in. Don't leave the chamber, man, I

:59:33. > :59:41.calling you! You are very kind. The member for

:59:42. > :59:47.Sherwood had already asked the same question, that I will ask it again,

:59:48. > :59:50.that is not unusual in this place. My parents formed their small

:59:51. > :59:55.business in the first enterprise zone created when Margaret Thatcher

:59:56. > :59:59.in Telford in 1984. My right honourable friend the Chancellor has

:00:00. > :00:02.carried on in that great Conservative tradition. Could he

:00:03. > :00:08.afford the same opportunities to get on in life and to create jobs to my

:00:09. > :00:14.constituents and those in Sherwood by backing Thoresby colliery as the

:00:15. > :00:17.next and best enterprise zone? I think he has just demonstrated that

:00:18. > :00:23.he is a very smart thinker on his feet and always ready to stand for

:00:24. > :00:27.the interests of his new constituents. As I said to the

:00:28. > :00:30.member for Sherwood, I would love to get the full spree cholerae

:00:31. > :00:35.enterprise zone into a condition where we can give it the go-ahead,

:00:36. > :00:40.and I give him and his neighbour my personal commitment that we will try

:00:41. > :00:44.to do that over the next year or so. The fact that question has been

:00:45. > :00:50.asked does not stop others asking the same question. Repetition is not

:00:51. > :00:54.a novel phenomenon and banners of commons.

:00:55. > :00:58.Can I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ponder the fact that we

:00:59. > :01:02.still have not really tackled productivity in this country. Can I

:01:03. > :01:07.guide him and say could he and his department look at the way in which

:01:08. > :01:11.we further invest in manufacturing skills, because surely he will agree

:01:12. > :01:15.with me that what we want in this country is high skills, high-paid

:01:16. > :01:19.jobs, and you find those in manufacturing? I think the

:01:20. > :01:23.honourable gentlemen is right to draw attention to the fact that the

:01:24. > :01:27.UK has had a productivity challenge for many decades, and the financial

:01:28. > :01:32.crisis caused a significant impairment which had an impact as

:01:33. > :01:36.well. Productivity is improving, but the key weakness in the British

:01:37. > :01:41.economy, consistently identified by everyone who looks at it, is a

:01:42. > :01:44.weakness of skills. Hopefully the apprenticeship levy and the

:01:45. > :01:47.expansion of the apprenticeship programme will go some way to

:01:48. > :01:51.address that historic weakness. (INAUDIBLE)

:01:52. > :01:58.In improving financial inclusion and creating a stronger savings culture.

:01:59. > :02:02.With the opportunity of a Will Counsel For Credit Unions coming to

:02:03. > :02:07.the UK and Northern Ireland later in media, will he continue to build on

:02:08. > :02:11.the work of the credit union expansion programme and back this

:02:12. > :02:15.vital work? I other constituency neighbour is a fine advocate for the

:02:16. > :02:21.excellent industry of credit unions. As he will know, we have back the

:02:22. > :02:24.industry with ?38 million of investment in terms of the credit

:02:25. > :02:29.union expansion project, we will continue to seek ways to back the

:02:30. > :02:33.credit unions. Given that manufacturing remained

:02:34. > :02:38.6.1% below precrisis levels with worrying trends in the manufacture,

:02:39. > :02:41.plant, machinery and pharmaceuticals, will he accept that

:02:42. > :02:46.he and his domestic policy agenda has just as much should an impact as

:02:47. > :02:51.the global factors which he is so keen to blame? He must bear in

:02:52. > :02:54.measure of responsibility and come forward with proposals to halt the

:02:55. > :02:57.decline. Manufacturing makes of a larger

:02:58. > :03:03.sector of the economy than when I became the Chancellor, but there is

:03:04. > :03:07.a huge amount more to do to make the UK more competitive, businesses more

:03:08. > :03:11.competitive, improve skills for manufacturers and the like. I have

:03:12. > :03:16.to say, I suspect she agrees, that the idea of banning manufacturers

:03:17. > :03:20.from paying dividends would not be a particularly sensible way forward.

:03:21. > :03:24.That is another policy of the Labour Party, unfortunately.

:03:25. > :03:29.Is he aware that since he took office in May 2010, the claimant

:03:30. > :03:35.count my constituency has fallen by 62% and the youth unemployment count

:03:36. > :03:38.by 67%? Would he agree that reducing corporation Tax, increasing the

:03:39. > :03:43.personal allowance and reforming welfare has caused these fantastic

:03:44. > :03:46.figures, would he confirmed that his long-term economic plan will

:03:47. > :03:54.continue? We will absolutely deliver the plan in these more difficult

:03:55. > :03:58.global economic conditions. The IMF have not revised down the UK credit

:03:59. > :04:03.forecast, even though they have revised down the global economic

:04:04. > :04:05.forecast. We will invest in Croydon and South London with important

:04:06. > :04:09.transport infrastructure and do everything we can to back homeowners

:04:10. > :04:16.in his constituency, a group I know he particularly champions.

:04:17. > :04:21.Can I return the City Minister to the issue of the cancelled FCA

:04:22. > :04:25.inquiry into culture. The member for Chichester's Parliamentary banking

:04:26. > :04:30.inquiry pointed out that murder on the orient express excuse, everyone

:04:31. > :04:34.was partly responsible but no one was really to blame. She said that

:04:35. > :04:39.ministers had no role in the cancellation of batting wary, will

:04:40. > :04:45.she say, yes or no, whether any civil servants did? -- the

:04:46. > :04:49.cancellation of that inquiry. No. We must move on, demand always

:04:50. > :04:58.exceed supply. We come now to the urgent question,

:04:59. > :05:09.Vista Stephen Phillips? -- Mr Stephen Phillips. (INAUDIBLE)

:05:10. > :05:14.to as the Secretary of State it she will make a statement as to the

:05:15. > :05:20.death from Ebola virus disease of a 22-year-old student in Sierra Leone

:05:21. > :05:26.on the 12th of January 2016? We will come to points of order, they come

:05:27. > :05:32.after urgent questions. I will await the honourable lady's inquiry with

:05:33. > :05:34.interest. To answer the question, the Secretary of State for

:05:35. > :05:39.International Development. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and, indeed,

:05:40. > :05:43.many happy returns. The house will be aware, as my

:05:44. > :05:47.honourable friend has just said, that there is a new case of Ebola

:05:48. > :05:54.that has been confirmed in Sierra Leone. A 22-year-old female student

:05:55. > :05:59.sadly died on the 12th of January. This latest case of Ebola in Sierra

:06:00. > :06:04.Leone demonstrates that we need to stay vigilant. The news came just as

:06:05. > :06:08.the world health organisation formally declared the bowler

:06:09. > :06:13.outbreak in West Africa over following Liberia reaching 22 days

:06:14. > :06:18.without a new case. However, it is not unexpected given the context of

:06:19. > :06:23.this unprecedented outbreak. This new case was identified from a swab

:06:24. > :06:27.taken after death and is currently being investigated. The government

:06:28. > :06:31.of Sierra Leone has activated its national Ebola response plan and

:06:32. > :06:35.rapid work is under way to identify and quarantine people who have had

:06:36. > :06:39.contact with the young woman and to establish a movement in the final

:06:40. > :06:44.few days and weeks before her death. Teams in five district are acting on

:06:45. > :06:49.this information. No other cases have been confirmed to date.

:06:50. > :06:53.The speed of this process reflects the work UK has undertaken with the

:06:54. > :06:58.government of Sierra Leone to develop a national response plan. As

:06:59. > :07:02.the IDC report says, the UK has been at the forefront of the global

:07:03. > :07:05.response to the Ebola outbreak in West Africa. From the very start,

:07:06. > :07:10.leading in Sierra Leone, working hand-in-hand with the government of

:07:11. > :07:15.Sierra Leone, we took on this deadly disease at source by rapidly

:07:16. > :07:20.deploying the best British military personnel and NHS staff, Public

:07:21. > :07:24.Health England, building treatment centres in a matter of weeks,

:07:25. > :07:28.mobilising the international response. We have worked with the

:07:29. > :07:33.government of Sierra Leone to build a health systems and strengthen all

:07:34. > :07:36.aspects of society, including civil society, to allow them to be

:07:37. > :07:41.prepared. We stand by Sierra Leone, as we have always been clear, there

:07:42. > :07:45.is the potential for further cases, which is precisely why our response

:07:46. > :07:49.now is focused on assisting Sierra Leone in isolating and treating any

:07:50. > :07:57.view cases of Ebola before they spread.

:07:58. > :08:00.-- any new cases. I am grateful to her for coming to the house

:08:01. > :08:07.purposely today to answer questions on that subject. I am grateful for

:08:08. > :08:10.her leadership during the Ebola outbreak of 2014/15, as well as to

:08:11. > :08:13.the brave military and civilian personnel who travelled to Sierra

:08:14. > :08:18.Leone to help West Africa in that period. On the 7th of November last

:08:19. > :08:22.year, the world health organisation declared Sierra Leone free of Ebola

:08:23. > :08:26.following a 42 day period during which no new cases were reported. As

:08:27. > :08:31.my right honourable friend has said, the WHO made a further declaration

:08:32. > :08:37.to be fed that the outbreak of Ebola in West Africa was over. My right

:08:38. > :08:41.honourable friends would have been dismayed at the reports yesterday of

:08:42. > :08:50.the death of this young woman from Ebola in the northern Tonkolil

:08:51. > :08:53.district, particularly as she seems to have travelled through three

:08:54. > :09:00.other provinces in the infectious stages. What steps her she taken to

:09:01. > :09:06.determine the source of this outbreak? Is she confident that it

:09:07. > :09:09.can be contained, given the burial customs observed do not seem to the

:09:10. > :09:14.procedures to prevent further contamination? Are the quarantine

:09:15. > :09:18.measures sufficient to ensure that widespread transmission of the virus

:09:19. > :09:23.is unlikely? The assistance provided by the UK during the last out

:09:24. > :09:29.because the British taxpayer ?427 million. My right honourable friend

:09:30. > :09:33.will remember that I first asked about that outbreak on the 18th of

:09:34. > :09:37.June 2014, at a stage when the number of cases was in the tens

:09:38. > :09:42.rather than the thousands. None of this wishes to see a further

:09:43. > :09:46.significant outbreak. Is she working with her officials, the government

:09:47. > :09:50.of Sierra Leone and the WHO to ensure we get on top of the problem

:09:51. > :09:53.at a stage when relatively few individuals are likely to have been

:09:54. > :09:58.exposed? It is fair to say that the worst epidemiological predictions

:09:59. > :10:03.during the last outbreak did not materialise, but more than 11,300

:10:04. > :10:09.people in Africa died of Ebola in 2014/ 15. Many more died of

:10:10. > :10:12.preventable diseases, which an overburdened and fragile health

:10:13. > :10:16.system was not able to deal with at the same time as Ebola. What funding

:10:17. > :10:20.will she make available to the government of Sierra Leone and NGOs

:10:21. > :10:23.in the region to deal with the outbreak and to establish long-term

:10:24. > :10:27.resilience in the health care system for dealing with a disease which may

:10:28. > :10:31.be endemic in the region? Has she held discussions with Ministry of

:10:32. > :10:34.Defence colleagues about the potential for assistance to ensure

:10:35. > :10:38.the disease does not spread further? Does she have confidence at the

:10:39. > :10:42.failings demonstrated by the WHO in the past will not be repeated. To

:10:43. > :10:47.what extent it she confident that there are not further cases of Ebola

:10:48. > :10:53.in Liberia and Guinea? A retesting of samples taken from individuals

:10:54. > :10:56.who died in the ten years prior to the 2014/15 outbreak indicates that

:10:57. > :10:59.Ebola may have been present in West Africa football than a decade, to

:11:00. > :11:04.the extent that it is now endemic, what measures will she and the

:11:05. > :11:09.government support leading to the development of an effective vaccine

:11:10. > :11:12.for the virus, when did she expected to be available? The previous

:11:13. > :11:17.outbreak of Ebola and spread across an interconnected world indicated

:11:18. > :11:21.the threat from the -- to the United Kingdom. Direct flights every

:11:22. > :11:26.comments from Sierra Leone to London, but she will know the

:11:27. > :11:32.previous band was unnecessary and counter-productive. Can she assure

:11:33. > :11:37.the house and the Sierra Leonean diaspora that the mistakes of

:11:38. > :11:40.banning direct flights will not be repeated? The long-term prognosis of

:11:41. > :11:45.those previously infected is not well understood by the medical

:11:46. > :11:48.profession. In cases like that of Pauline Cafferkey, we know it can

:11:49. > :11:53.hide in the body for periods of time. Is the Department of Health

:11:54. > :11:57.aware of the re-emergence in patients who have previously

:11:58. > :12:00.survived the disease? What assistance is being given in West

:12:01. > :12:03.Africa to ensure the long-term health of those who have survived

:12:04. > :12:08.Ebola and may still be able to pass it on to others? What if any

:12:09. > :12:12.monitoring project is her department intend to fund so the disease is

:12:13. > :12:15.stamped out both for individuals in the region and to ensure the

:12:16. > :12:19.bio-security of the UK and those who live here?

:12:20. > :12:23.Before the Secretary of State answers, let me say to the

:12:24. > :12:28.honourable and learned gentleman that his error condition today,

:12:29. > :12:33.which is never in doubt, has been equalled only why his length. --

:12:34. > :12:37.erudition. The honourable gentleman is a sophisticated denizen of the

:12:38. > :12:44.House and he is dealing with a serious matter, but on top of that

:12:45. > :12:47.the honourable and learned gentleman is an illustrious queens Counsel.

:12:48. > :12:51.Perhaps I can express the hope that he does not charge as clients by the

:12:52. > :12:57.word. If he does he will be a great deal richer than they -- and they

:12:58. > :13:01.will be a great deal poorer. From now on we must try to stick to the

:13:02. > :13:04.time limits and I say that in a good spirit because he has raised an

:13:05. > :13:08.important issue and done it in an extremely intelligent way. But if we

:13:09. > :13:12.can operate within the time limits from now on, the House would

:13:13. > :13:17.appreciate it. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I must say I think he would

:13:18. > :13:21.have achieved amazing value for money on the numbers of questions

:13:22. > :13:27.for time spoken. I commend him on that. In response, to the very

:13:28. > :13:31.serious issues that he raises, I think from the very beginning this

:13:32. > :13:36.has been an unprecedented outbreak and we are seeing that even now in

:13:37. > :13:41.the length of time this virus appears to stay in the body of

:13:42. > :13:46.survivors after they fully recover. It is one of the reasons why part of

:13:47. > :13:56.the work that we are doing within Sierra Leone, as we learn about the

:13:57. > :13:59.invocations of this virus's persistence within survivors, is

:14:00. > :14:08.mitigating the risks that it can be passed on, offering safe sex

:14:09. > :14:16.counselling, and we have established a scene in testing and also ensuring

:14:17. > :14:25.free access to health care. -- semen testing. It is critical that we

:14:26. > :14:31.mitigate the risks of people passing on a disease that they might have

:14:32. > :14:36.survived, and there is also a semen testing programme for those aged 15

:14:37. > :14:41.or above. We are working with the public health in the area to make

:14:42. > :14:48.sure that this is in the mounted effectively. This is a country where

:14:49. > :14:53.we saw subsequent cases happen after the people of free point. And that

:14:54. > :14:56.is why we have been so vigilant. Indeed, it is the processes and the

:14:57. > :15:00.systems and the testing that we have put in place with the government of

:15:01. > :15:06.Sierra Leone and that has picked up this particular case and therefore

:15:07. > :15:10.has enabled us to go through the process of contact tracing and

:15:11. > :15:17.quarantine. Although it is known that this particular student had

:15:18. > :15:24.travelled extensively, which makes our task harder. Therefore we work

:15:25. > :15:29.harder, and we have set up mobile field hospitals that can rapidly get

:15:30. > :15:38.to a district if we see an outbreak. He asked about Warren team measures

:15:39. > :15:44.and those are being put in place and indeed, the contact tracing is

:15:45. > :15:48.happening. -- quarantine measures. He asked about the funding which is

:15:49. > :15:52.being put in place and how we are working more broadly to get to what

:15:53. > :15:59.I would call a resilient zero. I think we all expected that having

:16:00. > :16:02.got over the maximum period of the outbreak, which was incredibly

:16:03. > :16:06.difficult, that there would be sporadic cases that would continue

:16:07. > :16:11.to appear, and that is the phase that we are now in. Getting on top

:16:12. > :16:19.of those, as he says, is the way in which we will get to this resilient

:16:20. > :16:23.of -- resilient zero where we can be confident that there will not be

:16:24. > :16:29.future cases. There is funding for that outbreak and that covers some

:16:30. > :16:33.of the things I have mentioned, but also we are working in schools to

:16:34. > :16:40.make sure that issues of water and sanitation, basic steps that

:16:41. > :16:44.community can undertake to minimise the risk of passing on diseases

:16:45. > :16:48.including the bowler, are understood and put in place. And that's

:16:49. > :16:52.district level response mechanism is still there, that we have used so

:16:53. > :17:01.successfully to get over the major outbreak when it was at its peak.

:17:02. > :17:04.And it is worth saying that the hospital of tropical and medical

:17:05. > :17:13.disease is estimated that we saved over 56,000 lives with the work that

:17:14. > :17:17.we did with the government of Sierra Leone to get in the lean back on top

:17:18. > :17:21.of this outbreak. He asked about the progress of vaccinations. Of course

:17:22. > :17:28.one of the things that we had already been involved in prior to

:17:29. > :17:35.this crisis was some of the development of early-stage vaccines.

:17:36. > :17:39.He will know that there are promising candidates there and they

:17:40. > :17:43.give us the prospect of being able to more readily clamped down on

:17:44. > :17:47.future outbreaks. But part of this, as I finish my comments, perhaps is

:17:48. > :17:51.his other point that he made an health system strengthening. One of

:17:52. > :17:57.the key messages that came out from this evil outbreak was that

:17:58. > :18:03.countries like Sierra Leone and Liberia, in the scheme of their

:18:04. > :18:07.history, newly emergent from civil war, were less able to cope simply

:18:08. > :18:09.because their health systems were at an earlier stage of development

:18:10. > :18:14.because of those conflicts. Other countries in the region, Nigeria is

:18:15. > :18:21.one that you might point to, were better able to clamp-down on this

:18:22. > :18:24.outbreak, purely because they had a stronger health system in place but

:18:25. > :18:32.even in that case, there was some way for it to go. So I would

:18:33. > :18:36.reassure the House that it is perhaps not a surprise to see these

:18:37. > :18:40.sporadic additional cases but however, the people, the processes

:18:41. > :18:45.and the systems are in place on the ground in Sierra Leone to identify

:18:46. > :18:50.them and respond rapidly to them. The final thing you mentioned was on

:18:51. > :18:55.flights. The decision we took on direct flights was actually one that

:18:56. > :18:58.we felt was in the interests of our national security. I think it was

:18:59. > :19:03.the right decision to take. Critically, I think in the end the

:19:04. > :19:09.way we got on top of this outbreak was to see the UK partnering and

:19:10. > :19:12.bringing the best of British, our military, doctors and nurses and

:19:13. > :19:16.Public Health England, working with our fantastic Foreign Office, as one

:19:17. > :19:22.team, hand-in-hand with the government of Sierra Leone. To

:19:23. > :19:26.really provide a platform that the rest of the international community

:19:27. > :19:30.could work through themselves. To combat this disease. Again, I would

:19:31. > :19:35.like to put on record my thanks not only to the many DFID staff that I

:19:36. > :19:38.am privileged to lead in my department but to all those other

:19:39. > :19:42.people across government and public sector workers who frankly put their

:19:43. > :19:51.lives on the line in many cases in order to help Sierra Leone get to

:19:52. > :19:56.grips with this terrible crisis. I'm sure the whole house will join me in

:19:57. > :20:01.paying tribute not just to British health workers and military who went

:20:02. > :20:05.to help the people of West Africa in the last Ebola outbreak, but all the

:20:06. > :20:08.local workers, the local health workers who bore the brunt of the

:20:09. > :20:14.campaign against Ebola and the brunt of the deaths. On the question of

:20:15. > :20:19.international development reports, the Secretary of State will be aware

:20:20. > :20:22.that the Commons committee said the government had been too reliant on

:20:23. > :20:31.the World Health Organisation, which eventually declared in August 2015

:20:32. > :20:35.that in fact the government should have listened to other groups, like

:20:36. > :20:40.Medecins Sans Frontieres, who had been warning about Ebola months

:20:41. > :20:45.earlier. Does the secretary of state agree with the committee chairman

:20:46. > :20:52.that the international community relied on the WHO to sound the alarm

:20:53. > :20:56.and the failure to respond quickly enough is now well documented? Does

:20:57. > :21:02.the secretary of state also agree that the bowler cannot be seen in

:21:03. > :21:10.isolation and we have to look at the general issue of access to health

:21:11. > :21:14.care in the region, and building a resilient health system. -- Ebola

:21:15. > :21:17.cannot be seen in isolation. I'm grateful to the honourable lady for

:21:18. > :21:22.those questions. She clearly sets out that the key to success in

:21:23. > :21:30.tackling Ebola was the response of the Sierra Leonean people

:21:31. > :21:32.themselves. And in the end their willingness to run towards tackling

:21:33. > :21:37.disease that instinctively many people would have wanted to run away

:21:38. > :21:40.from. And there were many red cross volunteers from across Africa who

:21:41. > :21:48.went into the region to be part of helping tackle it. And they very

:21:49. > :21:51.much like this. The UK's role was to work hand-in-hand and make sure that

:21:52. > :21:55.our resources and know-how could be brought to bear to finally get on

:21:56. > :22:00.top of this. I think everybody recognises that there were some

:22:01. > :22:05.serious lessons to be learned by the international system in responding

:22:06. > :22:09.to this crisis, and WHO reform is now taking place and that is

:22:10. > :22:13.something that myself and the Secretary of State for Health have

:22:14. > :22:20.had a chance to talk directly about. It is vital that we learn lessons

:22:21. > :22:23.about this crisis to understand how the international system can

:22:24. > :22:31.mobilise more speedily when crisis hits. This was an outbreak that was

:22:32. > :22:35.rapidly spreading but actually starting in the place, a part of the

:22:36. > :22:44.world that was perhaps the least able to initially responds to it

:22:45. > :22:49.itself. The UK, we were actively working much earlier than the

:22:50. > :22:58.official outbreak declaration by the WHO. As early as June or July, we're

:22:59. > :23:06.working to support MSF, who played a key role, alongside many other NGOs.

:23:07. > :23:13.There are lessons to be learned. The report today, in a systematic way,

:23:14. > :23:18.goes through the initial response, and also what happened subsequent to

:23:19. > :23:21.that. I think it is important that WHO reforms and I think it is

:23:22. > :23:30.important that it looks at not only its processes and how it responds,

:23:31. > :23:32.but this emergency response fund that it is setting up is adequately

:23:33. > :23:37.resourced to have the means to response as well as the -- means to

:23:38. > :23:42.respond as well as the strategy. The Select Committee report issued today

:23:43. > :23:46.commends the strong leadership of DFID and the UK Government in

:23:47. > :23:51.coordinating the response to a bowler. But it is critical of the

:23:52. > :23:54.WHO in its delay in designating the outbreak as a public health

:23:55. > :23:57.emergency of international concern. I wonder if the Secretary of State

:23:58. > :24:02.would give us more insight into her discussions with Margaret Chan and

:24:03. > :24:05.confirm that indeed the department is ensuring that WHO really does

:24:06. > :24:15.treat this as a priority in terms of its radical reform needs? There are

:24:16. > :24:18.various different aspects of this but one that is particularly key is

:24:19. > :24:25.the regional response of the WHO and the importance of making sure that

:24:26. > :24:31.at that level emerging outbreaks are clearly identified and in a

:24:32. > :24:36.depoliticised way, identified as outbreaks simply because of the

:24:37. > :24:39.facts on the ground, despite the reticence governments might have

:24:40. > :24:44.about declaring a health emergency. Those are the key changes that we

:24:45. > :24:48.will steadily see with the WHO over time. Critically, we need to be able

:24:49. > :24:53.to mobilise people and one of the other aspects of the WHO reform is

:24:54. > :25:02.to set up an international register of health care responders, much like

:25:03. > :25:05.the one that the UK had that we drew up to tackle Ebola, so we can make

:25:06. > :25:08.sure we have the right people in the right place rapidly the next time a

:25:09. > :25:13.crisis hits. Having said that, this was an unprecedented outbreak. It is

:25:14. > :25:18.the first time that we have seen and he Ebola outbreak spread across

:25:19. > :25:23.borders. Nevertheless we need to see the WHO reform to respond far more

:25:24. > :25:30.quickly and effectively going forward. We echo the dismay at this

:25:31. > :25:34.new case and the tributes paid to those involved in the response.

:25:35. > :25:39.Bearing in mind the IDC report, what more can she say about the steps

:25:40. > :25:42.DFID is taking to monitor the situation in the wider region? What

:25:43. > :25:47.contact does she currently have with service providers on the ground to

:25:48. > :25:51.pick up early warnings and what consideration should she give to the

:25:52. > :25:55.National Academy of medicine's recent report on creating a

:25:56. > :25:59.risk-free world in the future, which called for WHO reform, and the

:26:00. > :26:04.creation of a permanent rescue centre and an investment in pandemic

:26:05. > :26:08.response? The work that is underway on the ground is very much to make

:26:09. > :26:13.sure that all of the framework that we put in place to tackle the major

:26:14. > :26:21.outbreaks now swing into action at the local level again. So that is in

:26:22. > :26:27.relation to isolation of potential Ebola sufferers, and it sits

:26:28. > :26:32.alongside the ongoing surveillance work, which was how we picked up

:26:33. > :26:35.this case in the first place. Of course, one of the things that comes

:26:36. > :26:40.out of this is the need to continue to emphasise the need for safe

:26:41. > :26:45.burials, so that we do not see this case spreading more broadly. And

:26:46. > :26:51.deliver that. But alongside that, of deliver that. But alongside that, of

:26:52. > :26:55.course, I talked about the hospital and treatment centres that are still

:26:56. > :26:59.there in order to provide the kind of isolation units that we need to

:27:00. > :27:06.be able to treat the bowler sufferers effectively, and lab

:27:07. > :27:11.testing. This is a legacy from what the UK was able to do with Sierra

:27:12. > :27:13.Leone that means they are better placed to deal with this particular

:27:14. > :27:18.case but I should emphasise to the House that as we go through

:27:19. > :27:23.contracts tracing periods, the quarantine period for high risk

:27:24. > :27:30.contact, inevitably there may be some further cases that could

:27:31. > :27:34.emerge. And this is all part of the eradication of Ebola, and getting to

:27:35. > :27:39.what I call resilience zero. Unfortunately we do not expect to

:27:40. > :27:42.see a situation where it suddenly switches off overnight and that is

:27:43. > :27:47.why we were so keen to make sure that some of these underlying

:27:48. > :27:53.processes, having the right people in place and the right surveillance,

:27:54. > :27:57.remains there. In order to be able to deal with these sorts of

:27:58. > :28:01.situations. He asked about WHO reform and the emergency response.

:28:02. > :28:07.And he is right to talk about that. Part of this needs to ensure that we

:28:08. > :28:11.have funded international resources to enable the WHO to put into

:28:12. > :28:16.practice the new strategy is that it is now developing. The UK was one of

:28:17. > :28:20.the initial contributors to the fund set up in 2000 within the WHO, but

:28:21. > :28:25.we are strongly lobbying other countries to join us.

:28:26. > :28:31.Our thoughts are very much with the people of Sierra Leone. The

:28:32. > :28:38.Secretary of State said last July that the UK will stay the course

:28:39. > :28:39.until Ebola is defeated. Will she confirmed that the United Kingdom

:28:40. > :29:08.will stay the course until...

:29:09. > :29:10.In the context of this outbreak, there was a point in time where

:29:11. > :29:18.people were extremely concerned about its potential to arrive here

:29:19. > :29:23.in the UK. It is not just in there interests that we do this work, it

:29:24. > :29:27.is in our interest that we have a W H O that is able to respond to these

:29:28. > :29:33.sorts of national health emergencies. -- International health

:29:34. > :29:39.emergencies. Can I congratulate the end... Honourable gentleman on

:29:40. > :29:42.securing this question. In the select committee report published

:29:43. > :29:48.today that has been referred to, one of the central recommendations is

:29:49. > :29:52.that the UK should take the lead in efforts for reform about

:29:53. > :29:56.organisation. Can the Secretary of State tell us more about the

:29:57. > :30:02.timescale of the reforms we do not lose the opportunity? The reform is

:30:03. > :30:06.already under way. I met this comparatively recently with Margaret

:30:07. > :30:13.Chan, who heads up the W O'Connor about this. There are already

:30:14. > :30:17.changes being made across-the-board. The key thing that remains to be

:30:18. > :30:22.worked on, as I said earlier, is bottoming out the overall strategy

:30:23. > :30:27.for improving and emergency responses in relation to the WHO,

:30:28. > :30:31.making sure there is resourcing, and the issue of working with countries

:30:32. > :30:38.who are perhaps most at risk if a healthy emergency occurs, for them

:30:39. > :30:43.to particularly be able to deal with that more effectively. It is not

:30:44. > :30:47.just about having a better system in place, it is about targeting,

:30:48. > :30:50.frankly, where we know the greatest potential holes in an international

:30:51. > :30:56.response might be. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Her

:30:57. > :31:00.department, our medical professionals, our Armed Forces can

:31:01. > :31:06.be proud of the assistance they gave to Sierra Leone during the Ebola

:31:07. > :31:11.outbreak of 2014/ 15. As a member of this Haas with a Sierra Leonean

:31:12. > :31:17.mother, will she assure the house my family and the wider Sierra Leonean

:31:18. > :31:23.diaspora that support to Sierra Leone will continue until the

:31:24. > :31:27.facilities locally are able to withstand further health

:31:28. > :31:30.difficulties like this, and also that our future economic and

:31:31. > :31:37.diplomatic relationship with Sierra Leone will not be defined by this

:31:38. > :31:39.darkest period in such it went for country's history?

:31:40. > :31:46.I think he puts his point extremely well. The role of the diaspora

:31:47. > :31:50.working with many of those links that they naturally have back in

:31:51. > :31:54.Sierra Leone was critical, actually. I remember the meetings I had with

:31:55. > :31:58.diaspora here to make sure there were those lines of communication

:31:59. > :32:04.open between the work that the Foreign Office was doing and people

:32:05. > :32:08.on the ground themselves. He talks about the need and the hope that

:32:09. > :32:12.Sierra Leone can bounce back from what it has been through. It was a

:32:13. > :32:19.terrible, terrible outbreak. I remember I was there three times

:32:20. > :32:25.over a very short period, but it was only on my third visit that I felt

:32:26. > :32:30.like I got to see some of the country, in essence, and its spirit.

:32:31. > :32:34.Because the first two times were so embedded in crisis, it was really a

:32:35. > :32:37.different place. Before this crisis hit, Sierra Leone was one of the

:32:38. > :32:41.fastest-growing economies in the world. Our hope, and the omission we

:32:42. > :32:47.have to have for a country like Sierra Leone, is that it really can

:32:48. > :32:51.bounce back now. I would finish by saying that the challenge is to

:32:52. > :32:55.bring the same urgency that we saw in responding to Ebola to the rest

:32:56. > :33:00.of our country's develop and. What we saw in that response was when we

:33:01. > :33:03.really worked together, when there is a country owned strategy, we have

:33:04. > :33:08.all the different stakeholders pulling in the same direction, we

:33:09. > :33:16.can cover a lot of ground quickly when there is political will. That

:33:17. > :33:18.has much, much broader lessons for development progress

:33:19. > :33:22.internationally, particularly in Sierra Leone. We are trying to make

:33:23. > :33:26.sure that the momentum keeps up even though the outbreak is steadily

:33:27. > :33:31.being eradicated. Further to that very welcome point

:33:32. > :33:35.from the Minister, will she undertake to ensure that the support

:33:36. > :33:37.towards resilience won't just be to support the infrastructure of a

:33:38. > :33:42.fragile health care system that clearly needs to be supported, but

:33:43. > :33:47.also to support village development committees in Sierra Leone who

:33:48. > :33:50.proved such an effective and important network of mobilisation,

:33:51. > :33:54.whose capacity will be relevant to the other challengers, including

:33:55. > :34:02.those diseases which lost a priority during the Ebola crisis?

:34:03. > :34:06.He talks about a number of different but related points. The work at

:34:07. > :34:13.community level proved to be pivotal in enabling us to tackle Ebola. Both

:34:14. > :34:17.in terms of steadily ensuring that people who were victims of a bowler

:34:18. > :34:23.were buried safely and did not pass the virus on, but also then in

:34:24. > :34:26.improving surveillance, and it is the surveillance now that is one of

:34:27. > :34:30.the key planks of making sure that we never see another case of Ebola

:34:31. > :34:39.that romps away in the way that we saw it take hold in 2014. There is a

:34:40. > :34:43.lot more work to be done. Improving district and community level health

:34:44. > :34:47.care is absolutely vital and, indeed, it was the lack of a strong

:34:48. > :34:52.district and community level health care system that enabled this virus

:34:53. > :34:58.to really take hold. I talked about the legacy of a bowler, if there is

:34:59. > :35:01.one thing we were able to put in place it was very good command and

:35:02. > :35:05.control -- the legacy of Ebola. It went right from the Ministry of

:35:06. > :35:10.health and the president to the most removed communities. That was put in

:35:11. > :35:13.place to deal with the crisis, but now it can really help drive

:35:14. > :35:18.improvements in community health care and to build on the back of

:35:19. > :35:24.that skeleton, if you like, for the benefit of improving health more

:35:25. > :35:29.generally in Sierra Leone. Could I thank my honourable friend

:35:30. > :35:32.for asking this urgent question and congratulate the Secretary of State

:35:33. > :35:37.for the way she responded? My constituents in Kettering are hugely

:35:38. > :35:43.proud of the fantastic deployment of Armed Forces and civilian NHS

:35:44. > :35:47.personnel to tackle this crisis. Can I say to the Secretary of State, I

:35:48. > :35:50.don't think the full extent of the good news about this country's

:35:51. > :35:56.involvement in this crisis is out there. I don't think most people

:35:57. > :36:00.know that this country saved 56,000 lives as a result of our

:36:01. > :36:06.intervention. She shot with the House is a more good news about the

:36:07. > :36:10.involvement of this country as the world's leading responded to this

:36:11. > :36:16.huge crisis -- could she shout with the House some more good news?

:36:17. > :36:22.I think the numbers of lives directly saved because of the work

:36:23. > :36:30.that the UK was able to do is staggering. You can actually see the

:36:31. > :36:33.epidemic curve bending upwards and then steadily working with the

:36:34. > :36:38.government to wrestle it down over a period of months. It was extremely

:36:39. > :36:47.difficult work that required a huge amount of effort. In terms of what

:36:48. > :36:52.we did, we had 1100 -- 1500 military personnel, six UK treatment centres

:36:53. > :36:56.were provided in a matter of weeks, we trained over 4000 Sierra Leonean

:36:57. > :37:02.health-care workers, we deployed 150 NHS volunteers. They worked on

:37:03. > :37:10.supporting over 1500 treatment and isolation beds, more than half of

:37:11. > :37:15.the beds treating... That were available to treat Sierra Leoneans

:37:16. > :37:20.in that country. We now have a 36 bed mobile field hospital, there

:37:21. > :37:26.were 100 Public Health England staff that help set up three laboratories.

:37:27. > :37:29.We deliver 28,000 tonnes of aid, we delivered more than a million

:37:30. > :37:34.protective equipment suit is for people who were having to work, as

:37:35. > :37:41.it were, in the red zone, directly dealing with people with Ebola. We

:37:42. > :37:47.supported over 140 burial teams, we had a Royal Navy support ship, we

:37:48. > :37:51.had Merlin helicopters. It was a phenomenal response across

:37:52. > :37:56.Government, I am very proud to have been part of it. I thank him for his

:37:57. > :38:02.question. It is easy after these crises have been responded to do

:38:03. > :38:05.very much move on and lose just how important it was for the UK and how

:38:06. > :38:11.valuable the role was that we played.

:38:12. > :38:15.I very much support her efforts so far, I agree with her comments about

:38:16. > :38:22.the need for economic reconstruction in Sierra Leone in the future, too.

:38:23. > :38:28.She will also have heard the Chief Medical Officer of Sierra Leone, who

:38:29. > :38:31.is reported as saying that in one case the patient showed no signs or

:38:32. > :38:38.symptoms that fitted the case definition of Ebola. Given this very

:38:39. > :38:41.disturbing fact, what are the wider public health implications for us in

:38:42. > :38:47.the United Kingdom and what discussions has she had about this

:38:48. > :38:49.specific issue, with Public Health England, the Department of Health

:38:50. > :38:53.and the Foreign Commonwealth Office?

:38:54. > :38:58.We obviously continue to have a substantial team in Sierra Leone

:38:59. > :39:04.that is working directly on the ground, and part of the response to

:39:05. > :39:08.this latest case, although that response has been, of course, led by

:39:09. > :39:11.the government of Sierra Leone, and the real test of whether we are

:39:12. > :39:15.working effectively as whether we can in time step back and see the

:39:16. > :39:21.help system strengthening via that can take care of these sorts of

:39:22. > :39:27.outbreaks. We are investigating this particular case right now. He talks

:39:28. > :39:31.about some of the challenges of identification, it is why the

:39:32. > :39:36.surveillance is so important. It is following some of the procedures on

:39:37. > :39:41.taking swabs of all deaths that picked up that this was Ebola. At

:39:42. > :39:46.this stage of this response we have had to steadily work out what the

:39:47. > :39:51.most effective route forward is. We are continuing to do that as we come

:39:52. > :39:56.from new challenges, frankly, I can do what we have seen over recent

:39:57. > :40:01.days. I think the House can be reassured that we are working

:40:02. > :40:05.hand-in-hand, we have the resources in place and we also have fantastic

:40:06. > :40:12.medical experts who can really help us ground any strategy in terms of

:40:13. > :40:18.the science and how to take those are facts on the ground and respond

:40:19. > :40:22.to them effectively. We should be very proud of the role

:40:23. > :40:27.that the British military, the British health workers and the

:40:28. > :40:32.volunteers as well, under the leadership of DfID in Sierra Leone

:40:33. > :40:37.in tackling Ebola, but I think this latest incident which sadly led to

:40:38. > :40:43.the death of someone in Freetown just highlights how we must remain

:40:44. > :40:50.vigilant to this terrible disease. Will my right honourable friend sure

:40:51. > :40:53.this House that DfID will continue to press to be weighed show and the

:40:54. > :40:57.international community to continue to play a part not just in

:40:58. > :41:00.monitoring but strengthening and further developing public health

:41:01. > :41:05.systems in Sierra Leone? I strongly agree. We will be playing

:41:06. > :41:10.that role, we already are and will continue to do so. Much of it is

:41:11. > :41:18.pushed forward by the Department of Health, and it's very close working

:41:19. > :41:21.relationship with the WHO. It is vital that we fix some of the

:41:22. > :41:24.underlying problems that led to Ebola taking hold in the first

:41:25. > :41:29.place, which essentially means health system strengthening on the

:41:30. > :41:32.ground but also a better responder system internationally in order to

:41:33. > :41:38.deal with crises when they are inevitably emerge around the world.

:41:39. > :41:48.The comment that the Secretary of State made about supporting Sierra

:41:49. > :41:52.Leone, we have been very proud in Hull to be twinned with Freetown for

:41:53. > :41:56.many years, we have had many reciprocal visits, especially with

:41:57. > :42:00.teachers. I wonder whether the department was considering what more

:42:01. > :42:04.we could do to strengthen the reciprocal visits, to ensure

:42:05. > :42:07.support, especially in education, to that country?

:42:08. > :42:11.I will perhaps take away her ideas and thoughts and respond to her

:42:12. > :42:15.following this urgent question today. She is right to highlight

:42:16. > :42:20.education, one of the key issues we are now working on is getting

:42:21. > :42:23.children back into school. Particularly for girls, who may have

:42:24. > :42:28.been out of school, then we have to, frankly, make sure they get into

:42:29. > :42:33.school in a way that is not always easy, and also for orphans. There is

:42:34. > :42:37.a number of orphans as a result of the Ebola crisis, so education

:42:38. > :42:40.matters, not just in terms of broader public health but, of

:42:41. > :42:45.course, the schooling for children, many of whom were out of school for

:42:46. > :42:49.a year. I will reflect on the points she has made about the important

:42:50. > :42:56.links between her own local community and Freetown.

:42:57. > :43:00.The Secretary of State's actions have undoubtedly saved thousands of

:43:01. > :43:08.lives and I pay tribute to the efforts of the UK Government.

:43:09. > :43:13.However there is a charity doing great work in Sierra Leone who

:43:14. > :43:17.described the response to the orphans as to patchy across the

:43:18. > :43:24.country. What more can the secretary of state do to make it easier for

:43:25. > :43:30.small of aid to be provided on the ground to make a difference? We did

:43:31. > :43:37.have a particular fund that was able to enable us to provide funding to

:43:38. > :43:41.some of these smaller charities. As he will probably be aware, the main

:43:42. > :43:45.challenge at the beginning was putting in place all the key planks

:43:46. > :43:49.of a successful strategy which we were able to do, but smaller NGOs

:43:50. > :43:52.did play a key role and I would like did play a key role and I would like

:43:53. > :44:00.to pay tribute to the one that he highlights. DFID also did work to

:44:01. > :44:05.support orphans, many of whom would have otherwise been in incredibly

:44:06. > :44:09.vulnerable positions throughout this crisis, and we are still continuing

:44:10. > :44:17.to do that because as he will be aware, many survivors of the bowler

:44:18. > :44:21.do suffer a stigma as a result of having had the virus. -- Ebola.

:44:22. > :44:26.There is work underway to make sure that we integrate people into their

:44:27. > :44:33.families and where we find orphans, wherever possible, we help them get

:44:34. > :44:40.back in touch with their extended family. I warmed to the words that

:44:41. > :44:46.the Secretary of State said about the holistic approach to

:44:47. > :44:55.reconstruction in Sierra Leone, but it is the whole of West Africa. He

:44:56. > :44:58.bowler knows no boundaries. I know that she has paid tribute to our

:44:59. > :45:09.troops and all the effort that went on but there are some individuals.

:45:10. > :45:13.We all remember the diary from the young doctor from Huddersfield, the

:45:14. > :45:23.heart-warming reports. But also the aid agencies, the aid agencies,

:45:24. > :45:27.including where my own daughter works, but we have to learn the

:45:28. > :45:31.lessons. I used to work for the World Bank and I had reservations

:45:32. > :45:37.about the effectiveness of the WHO, on many occasions. And this was a

:45:38. > :45:40.time to reflect on whether the World Health Organisation is fit for

:45:41. > :45:49.purpose. And if it is not, we should try to do something about it. There

:45:50. > :45:55.were a number of British-based NGOs that played a vital role in helping

:45:56. > :46:00.to respond successfully to Ebola in Sierra Leone and in other countries

:46:01. > :46:08.and communities that were affected. In particular Save the Children, who

:46:09. > :46:12.were pivotal in enabling us to open the first treatment hospital that we

:46:13. > :46:19.were able to put in place, and that saved lives. For many of those NGOs,

:46:20. > :46:26.it was a real step into the dark, in a way, to have many of their

:46:27. > :46:28.volunteers working in such dangerous environments, and the training that

:46:29. > :46:33.needed to go alongside that. I want to take the opportunity to pay

:46:34. > :46:37.tribute to all of those volunteers who went out there, not just as I

:46:38. > :46:43.have set out from our own public sector, but many of them from all

:46:44. > :46:49.walks of life, frankly. They did an amazing job and they save lives. And

:46:50. > :46:54.he sets out that the international response, and the international

:46:55. > :46:57.system needs to improve, as we have heard from other questions in the

:46:58. > :47:08.chamber today. He is absolutely right. This was a crisis that we

:47:09. > :47:14.must learn lessons from. There were positive lessons about what it takes

:47:15. > :47:18.to confront Ebola but there are also negative lessons about how, frankly,

:47:19. > :47:25.a better job could have been done. My final point would be, looking

:47:26. > :47:28.forward to reconstruction and recovery, I represented the UK at a

:47:29. > :47:33.conference last year at the UN, hosted by the Secretary General,

:47:34. > :47:42.which was all about mobilising resources and effort around the

:47:43. > :47:46.country owned plans in in Liberia and Guinea, so there is one strategy

:47:47. > :47:56.that we are linked Heinz to help those countries get behind their

:47:57. > :48:04.feet. Dashed back on their feet. Dashed back on their feet. I welcome

:48:05. > :48:09.the responses so far. The work is not just about saving lives, but

:48:10. > :48:16.saving lives in this country as well. Demonstrating that maintaining

:48:17. > :48:19.military capabilities, delivering our international objectives are,

:48:20. > :48:23.voluntary and not exclusive. What discussions have the Secretary of

:48:24. > :48:27.State had with the Ministry of Defence about the potential for

:48:28. > :48:36.support if it proves to be needed? We hope that the procedures and the

:48:37. > :48:41.framework that we have left on the ground will be the best and most

:48:42. > :48:45.effective way to be able to respond to this latest incident. And we can

:48:46. > :48:49.also learn from Liberia's experience, where they went through

:48:50. > :48:53.a period of being free of Ebola and then they saw some fresh cases. I

:48:54. > :48:56.hope that we will be able to use those existing structures to be able

:48:57. > :49:03.to respond but I think that if there is one thing that we have seen over

:49:04. > :49:09.the past 12 years, our fantastic MOD often stands ready to be part of the

:49:10. > :49:14.UK humanitarian response, not just in relation to leave bowler but in

:49:15. > :49:21.typhoon I am in Nepal, and it plays a unique role in enabling this

:49:22. > :49:26.country to mobilise. I think as effectively as any in this world.

:49:27. > :49:33.Playing our part in helping to save lives when disaster hits. Firstly, I

:49:34. > :49:37.would like to commend the work of everybody who has been involved in

:49:38. > :49:44.tackling Ebola. Given the issues highlighted, can the Secretary of

:49:45. > :49:47.State outline what lessons have been learned by engaging cultural leaders

:49:48. > :49:53.and working with cultural norms in order to provide a cohesive response

:49:54. > :49:57.that is fully implement it. -- fully implemented. Of course, she

:49:58. > :50:03.represent a constituency that has our Scottish DFID headquarters.

:50:04. > :50:07.Again, those staff played a key raw in helping us shape the response,

:50:08. > :50:14.and I would like to say a huge thank you to them. The issue of working

:50:15. > :50:19.with communities is absolutely vital. -- a key role. We have to

:50:20. > :50:23.work with the cultures that are already there. You cannot impose on

:50:24. > :50:28.people. And indeed, the leadership that was shown from the top, from

:50:29. > :50:31.the president and then at the district level by community and

:50:32. > :50:37.religious leaders, particularly around safe burials, really made the

:50:38. > :50:41.difference. And it was once we were able to get that percentage of safe

:50:42. > :50:46.burials up towards 100%, that was when we stopped the onward spread

:50:47. > :50:54.from being at its peak. It was after getting the treatment beds in place

:50:55. > :50:58.that we were able to start improving our survival rates. And then working

:50:59. > :51:03.with communities, with the help of community leaders, helping people to

:51:04. > :51:06.understand how they could stay safe. And not catch this virus. And how

:51:07. > :51:13.quarantining people is actually in their interests, although it is

:51:14. > :51:17.difficult, to help save their own family. Bringing communities with

:51:18. > :51:21.us, and the role that community leaders play, also community

:51:22. > :51:24.mobiliser is, many times young people who went into communities to

:51:25. > :51:29.talk to them about these issues, that was one of the key planks that

:51:30. > :51:38.helped us turn the corner, but it took time. Would be Secretary of

:51:39. > :51:44.State agree that had not been from the commitment delivered under the

:51:45. > :51:49.coalition, for a 0.7% GNI, that it might have been more difficult to

:51:50. > :51:54.deliver on the scale and with the speed that the government were able

:51:55. > :52:00.to deliver on Ebola in Sierra Leone, and that it would have certainly

:52:01. > :52:02.have restricted the government's ability to negotiate with the World

:52:03. > :52:06.Health Organisation if we were not able to stand up in front of other

:52:07. > :52:12.countries and say we had delivered on that 0.7% commitment? There is no

:52:13. > :52:19.doubt that the fact that this country has finally delivered on a

:52:20. > :52:22.promise we made many years ago on meeting that commitment, of course

:52:23. > :52:29.that gives us huge credibility. I would also say that our influence

:52:30. > :52:35.goes beyond that because what we consistently do as a country very

:52:36. > :52:39.positively is helped shape the response so that it is not just a

:52:40. > :52:44.significant response from the UK, it is a thoughtful response that helps

:52:45. > :52:49.to shape strategy so that the money that is going into that response,

:52:50. > :52:53.wherever it is from, frankly, has the biggest impact on the ground.

:52:54. > :52:57.Whether that is leading on Ebola or the work we're doing on women and

:52:58. > :53:03.girls, and tackling female genital mutilation, or the work we're doing

:53:04. > :53:06.other crises in Syria, shaping job creation and employment and

:53:07. > :53:10.education, because we know that is what refugees need if they want to

:53:11. > :53:15.have a viable option of staying in that region, I think the UK's work

:53:16. > :53:20.goes beyond simply doing a lot. I think what we're doing is also smart

:53:21. > :53:25.and it is helping to make sure that the international community's

:53:26. > :53:35.responds more broccoli also smart. I think I had noticed earlier a point

:53:36. > :53:39.of order. I would like to raise a point of order. During Treasury

:53:40. > :53:43.questions, the Chancellor was in an exchange with the Shadow Chancellor

:53:44. > :53:49.and he used the term, had he lost his marbles, which I think was

:53:50. > :53:52.unparliamentary. I also would like to say that this comment comes in

:53:53. > :53:57.the week when the government has been exposed as leading mental

:53:58. > :54:01.health services underfunded. What the Chancellor has said goes to the

:54:02. > :54:05.heart of their callous attitudes towards vulnerable people and I

:54:06. > :54:09.wanted to put that on the record. I am grateful to the honourable lady

:54:10. > :54:13.for raising the point of order and putting it on the record. I did not

:54:14. > :54:18.make the immediate judgment that it was unparliamentary. I think it was

:54:19. > :54:24.intended in a jocular spirit. Of course, we all have two-way our

:54:25. > :54:28.words carefully in this place, and think of the possible locations of

:54:29. > :54:33.language chosen. I stand by the judgment made. Equally, the

:54:34. > :54:38.honourable lady has taken the opportunity to make her own point

:54:39. > :54:42.about it, and to make a wider point about an important public policy

:54:43. > :54:47.issue in the process. And it is on the record of what she has said and

:54:48. > :54:53.I thank for doing so. Mr Hywel Williams, a point of order. You have

:54:54. > :54:59.certified that there are instruments that relate to England only and that

:55:00. > :55:02.affects majority footing. Thousands of English students study at Bangor

:55:03. > :55:06.University and they are constituents of mine. Can you advise me how I

:55:07. > :55:11.might represent their views in full in voting lobbies? The honourable

:55:12. > :55:16.gentleman, I thank him for his point of order and his characteristic

:55:17. > :55:23.courtesy in notifying me in advance. He asks how he can represent the

:55:24. > :55:26.interests of his constituents in relation to the educational

:55:27. > :55:31.regulations before the House. This does give me the opportunity to

:55:32. > :55:38.explain the situation. Although I have certified this instrument as

:55:39. > :55:47.relating exclusively to England, the prayer to annul it requires a

:55:48. > :55:51.majority both of all members and of members representing English

:55:52. > :55:57.constituencies, so he is perfectly entitled to vote on it. The tests

:55:58. > :56:05.that the standing order sets is that every provision of the instrument

:56:06. > :56:08.relates exclusively to England, and is within devolved legislative

:56:09. > :56:15.competence. I am satisfied that this instrument meet that test. Informing

:56:16. > :56:21.my judgment, I am guided by advice both from speakers Council, and from

:56:22. > :56:24.the public to Bill office. Our exchange is on the record and I hope

:56:25. > :56:30.it will be useful to the honourable gentleman in such exchanges or

:56:31. > :56:35.communication as take place. Further to that point of order, I shall

:56:36. > :56:37.discover whether there is courtesy of the right honourable gentleman,

:56:38. > :56:48.David Hanson. I accept fully your interpretation,

:56:49. > :56:51.it is right and proper. My point of order is what opportunity is there

:56:52. > :56:56.for members who believe there is an interest in Wales to make

:56:57. > :57:01.representations to you prior to your certification of that decision?

:57:02. > :57:04.There are issues, as the honourable friend for Wrexham will point out,

:57:05. > :57:10.on budget and the communities such as ours. I have only just learned in

:57:11. > :57:13.the last few moments of your certification prior to entering the

:57:14. > :57:19.chamber this morning of this particular matter. For future

:57:20. > :57:22.reference, what process is there to make those representations?

:57:23. > :57:26.Self-evidently, we as Welsh members believe there is an interest in our

:57:27. > :57:32.constituencies on these matters. If memory serves me correctly, I

:57:33. > :57:37.announced the decision on this matter on the 7th of January,

:57:38. > :57:42.therefore there has been a period of no fewer than 12 days in which it is

:57:43. > :57:47.open to honourable and right honourable members to make

:57:48. > :57:52.representations. Moreover, in relation, not, I concede, two

:57:53. > :57:58.instruments, but to legislation, the House will now be conscious or will

:57:59. > :58:04.start to become conscious that it is my frequent practice to make a

:58:05. > :58:10.provisional certification, and that is subject to review cheering the

:58:11. > :58:14.passage of a piece of legislation depending upon the sequence of

:58:15. > :58:19.events. Therefore if during such periods members feel that their

:58:20. > :58:25.point of view has not been heard, and that if I hear it I may reach a

:58:26. > :58:27.different judgment, they should take the opportunity. The Right

:58:28. > :58:31.Honourable gentleman looked rather sceptical when I said that judgment

:58:32. > :58:37.had been made about this matters in several days ago. I would want to

:58:38. > :58:42.emphasise that there is no intention at all to deny members the

:58:43. > :58:46.opportunity to make representations, indeed, rather the contrary. I would

:58:47. > :58:52.very politely point out to the right honourable gentleman and to the

:58:53. > :58:53.House that this procedure is a procedure that the House has decided

:58:54. > :58:59.I should operate, and I am seeking I should operate, and I am seeking

:59:00. > :59:06.to operate to the best of my ability, and extremely fairly. It is

:59:07. > :59:10.not, however, the Speaker's procedure, it is a judgment the

:59:11. > :59:16.House has made, I am making the best job of it that I can. The right

:59:17. > :59:23.honourable gentleman is intimating from a sedentary position that his

:59:24. > :59:29.facial expressions were those not of scepticism but of gratitude. I am

:59:30. > :59:34.for that helpful clarification, as for that helpful clarification, as

:59:35. > :59:39.will an expectant nation also be. Point of order, Mr Ian Lucas.

:59:40. > :59:41.I am very grateful. Further to the point of order, I am particularly

:59:42. > :59:45.grateful that you pointed out this grateful that you pointed out this

:59:46. > :59:50.appalling procedure is not your procedure, it is a procedure which,

:59:51. > :59:55.unfortunately, the house authorised to do implement and is subject to

:59:56. > :00:00.standing orders which, of course, you are acting upon. The difficulty,

:00:01. > :00:08.Mr Speaker, is that the notification and notice is very late for those of

:00:09. > :00:12.us like me who have constituent at the University in my constituency

:00:13. > :00:15.directly affected by this. In the spirit of being helpful, I would

:00:16. > :00:20.like to point out that the procedure committee, of which I am a member,

:00:21. > :00:27.is undertaking an inquiry into this appalling procedure and will be

:00:28. > :00:33.those who are motivated, like my those who are motivated, like my

:00:34. > :00:40.very good friend who actually attended that university and can

:00:41. > :00:46.vote today in a way that those MPs from Wales cannot, those who are

:00:47. > :00:52.motivated to make representations to the procedure committee.

:00:53. > :00:59.First of all, I must emphasise that all members can vote on this today.

:01:00. > :01:04.I don't want him to develop, and it would be very sad and worrying if he

:01:05. > :01:08.did, a persecution complex. I would not want the honourable gentlemen to

:01:09. > :01:12.feel that he is excluded. When he says he is making his point of order

:01:13. > :01:16.by way of being helpful, I can't think I would doubt it for a moment!

:01:17. > :01:20.I don't think he ever intends anything other than to be helpful to

:01:21. > :01:27.me, the house and the nation and his constituents. He can certainly vote

:01:28. > :01:32.on the matter. The house will have been struck by the honourable

:01:33. > :01:37.gentlemen's use of his adjective in relation to the procedure. I did not

:01:38. > :01:40.make any evaluation of the procedure, I made the factual point

:01:41. > :01:45.that it is not something introduced by the Speaker, it is something that

:01:46. > :01:49.the House has said the speaker shall do, I am the servant of the house,

:01:50. > :01:53.doing it to the best of my ability. He has made his own assessment of

:01:54. > :01:57.the procedure and he is, as he has pointed out, a distinguished order

:01:58. > :02:02.-- ornament of the procedure committee. Numbers who wish to make

:02:03. > :02:08.representations to procedure in the ultimate showman should do so. The

:02:09. > :02:18.honourable gentlemen has helpfully advertise that opportunity.

:02:19. > :02:23.I suspect on a separate Magna... Matter, another point of order. I

:02:24. > :02:28.was astonished on Friday lunchtime to be told by a constituent that the

:02:29. > :02:30.Prime Minister was visiting a mosque in my constituency on Monday

:02:31. > :02:36.morning. Having followed that up, I was told that was the case, but they

:02:37. > :02:40.refused to tell me where the visit was even though I had already told

:02:41. > :02:44.them that I knew. It was only Monday morning when they finally told me

:02:45. > :02:50.where be, having not told me in the first place. Apart from the keystone

:02:51. > :02:54.thinking they should not tell a thinking they should not tell a

:02:55. > :02:59.sitting member of Parliament but his constituents have found out, can I

:03:00. > :03:03.ask your advice and Parliamentary protocol? This meant that I did not

:03:04. > :03:08.have the opportunity either to liaise with the wonderful mosque,

:03:09. > :03:11.who do wonderful work in terms of integration, or to speak to the

:03:12. > :03:17.Prime Minister's offers to give him I thought and advice on their work

:03:18. > :03:20.before his visit? I rather imagine a pregnancy thinks of little else in

:03:21. > :03:26.the course of the planning of his day than of the merits of receiving

:03:27. > :03:31.in such terms as the honourable gentlemen thinks fit and at such

:03:32. > :03:34.length is necessary his advice -- I rather imagine the Prime Minister

:03:35. > :03:38.thinks of little else. It occurs to me of the top of my head that it

:03:39. > :03:42.would have been open to representatives of the mosque to

:03:43. > :03:49.notify the honourable gentlemen in a timely way. On the matter of the

:03:50. > :03:54.protocol, whereby members should be notified, I would say that it is

:03:55. > :03:58.best for colleagues to interpret their responsibility in this matter

:03:59. > :04:03.broadly, that is to say rather than... I am not refer into any

:04:04. > :04:07.particular case, taking a narrow view and thinking that notification

:04:08. > :04:13.would take place at a very late stage, it is better to notify a

:04:14. > :04:16.colleague well in advance of an intention to visit his or her

:04:17. > :04:20.constituency. My own personal view is that where we are dealing with

:04:21. > :04:25.colleagues who are honourable and write honourable members, it is a

:04:26. > :04:32.courtesy to give more information rather than less. I hope that is

:04:33. > :04:37.helpful to the honourable gentlemen, and the House? There are always

:04:38. > :04:42.examples of these matters which a rife from time to time.

:04:43. > :04:46.-- which arrive. We come to the ten minute rule motion of the honourable

:04:47. > :04:50.member for Carshalton and Warrington.

:04:51. > :04:54.Mr Tom brake. I beg to move at least be given for me to bring in a bill

:04:55. > :05:00.to amend the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to remove promotion --

:05:01. > :05:03.provisions relating ministers to overrule decisions of the

:05:04. > :05:05.information Commissioner and an information Tribunal, to limit the

:05:06. > :05:10.time allowed for public authorities to respond Baltic consideration of

:05:11. > :05:14.the public interest, to extend the the public interest, to extend the

:05:15. > :05:20.FOIA act to cover private companies, social enterprises, charities

:05:21. > :05:24.contracted to carry out work for local authorities, the Royal

:05:25. > :05:28.household and connected purposes. I am no stranger to as the light ten

:05:29. > :05:33.minute rule Bill 's, this is the third bill on this subject I have

:05:34. > :05:37.promoted in Parliament, I am hoping, without any real justification I

:05:38. > :05:42.confess, that today will be three times lucky. A country's commitment

:05:43. > :05:47.to FOI is a clear indicator of the strength of its democracy. For that

:05:48. > :05:52.reason I totally reject what one of Tony Blair 's 's former advisers

:05:53. > :05:57.said to the BBC, but FOI was the worst thing the Labour government

:05:58. > :06:03.did. Tony Blair was far too hard on himself when he said about FOI, you

:06:04. > :06:07.idiot, you naive, foolish, irresponsible nincompoop. There is

:06:08. > :06:13.no description of stupidity, however vivid, that is adequate. I quake at

:06:14. > :06:17.the imbecility of it. Instead, he should have saved those words to

:06:18. > :06:21.describe his decision, on the flimsiest of evidence, to drag the

:06:22. > :06:26.UK to war in Iraq. Tony Blair's views on the alleged is --

:06:27. > :06:31.imbecility of FOI legislation are well-known, as are those of Jack

:06:32. > :06:36.Straw, who use the ministerial FOI vetoed twice, once to block Cabinet

:06:37. > :06:41.minute in the run-up to the Iraq war. He said, we have ended up with

:06:42. > :06:47.the Freedom of Information Act with more access to documents than any

:06:48. > :06:50.comparable jurisdiction. Personally, I consider that something to

:06:51. > :06:54.celebrate, not denigrate. I darken the more I liked interview in the

:06:55. > :07:00.Labour Party on the subject, I hope their review will disregard these

:07:01. > :07:05.dinosaur tendencies and back FOI to the help. Just as strong FOI

:07:06. > :07:10.legislation is a good barometer of democracy, any attempt to diluted

:07:11. > :07:13.represent a threat to it. With the number of MPs falling, hundreds of

:07:14. > :07:18.thousands of voters dropping off the electoral register, many being

:07:19. > :07:22.flushed, the Trade Union Bill being rammed through, all of which her to

:07:23. > :07:27.the opposition parties much more than the Conservatives, the

:07:28. > :07:32.opposition parties' abilities to challenge the Government is being

:07:33. > :07:38.curtailed. We are more dependent on FOI and the FOI Act than ever

:07:39. > :07:39.before. What are the views of the present Government on FOI? They

:07:40. > :07:47.established an independent commission in July to review the

:07:48. > :07:53.FOIA Act. This includes Jack Straw. No need to submit a FOI requested

:07:54. > :08:01.and straight there is nothing independent. It is claimed necessary

:08:02. > :08:04.because the Government needed to revisit FOI to ensure that ministers

:08:05. > :08:08.could speak candidly. He spoke of the worrying tendency to erode

:08:09. > :08:12.protections for that save space. Some of these officials, including

:08:13. > :08:18.Sir Gus O Donnell, as recently as this weekend, and the Cabinet

:08:19. > :08:26.secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood, dubbed Sir cover-up, made similar

:08:27. > :08:30.claims. Have seen here mandarin and scares them into thinking they can

:08:31. > :08:35.write things down, because they will be exposed to FOI, when there is no

:08:36. > :08:39.such risk, or because it serves the interests of the Chancellor to

:08:40. > :08:43.require them not to? I know with my involvement with the Transparency

:08:44. > :08:46.Act but a chilling effect can be achieved because someone repeats

:08:47. > :08:51.that a law or measure is chilling often enough, so people could tell

:08:52. > :08:57.their actions and self-centred -- self censor, rather than because it

:08:58. > :09:01.is chilling. Sir Jeremy has spoken about the chilling effects of the

:09:02. > :09:05.FOI Act. Now I should simply say that he wants to make the FOI rules

:09:06. > :09:10.clearer without substantial changes. To paraphrase Vince Cable, in the

:09:11. > :09:16.last few weeks we have seen his transformation from Sir cover-up to

:09:17. > :09:20.be so Lancelot Du Lac of FOI. Which incarnation is likely to have the

:09:21. > :09:23.longest shelf life bust up many legal experts point out that

:09:24. > :09:29.information Tribunal 's which he challenges against disclosure, and

:09:30. > :09:33.the statistics confirm this, only allow policy discussions to be

:09:34. > :09:37.revealed in very limited circumstances, or when the arguments

:09:38. > :09:40.for disclosure are overwhelmingly in the public interest. It is worth

:09:41. > :09:45.reminding the House that the justice select committee has conducted a

:09:46. > :09:50.much wider post-legislative scrutiny stating that FOI had contributed to

:09:51. > :09:55.a culture of greater openness across public authorities, particularly at

:09:56. > :09:58.central government level, and it is a significant enhancement to

:09:59. > :10:03.democracy. I'm disappointed at the commission's limited scope. The

:10:04. > :10:08.remit does not cover what types of bodies should be covered by the act,

:10:09. > :10:14.a major failing as we have seen here dignities of companies like chief or

:10:15. > :10:17.essence circle, and charities like Kids Company, a growing proportion

:10:18. > :10:21.of work previously undertaken by the public sector, subject two,

:10:22. > :10:28.undertaken by organisations which are not. How many Medway secure

:10:29. > :10:31.training centres candles could be prevented if FOI applied to private

:10:32. > :10:35.sector companies doing public sector work? We need to act on the

:10:36. > :10:38.recommendation of the Public Accounts Committee from 2014 and

:10:39. > :10:42.include these private contractors. The commission should have looked at

:10:43. > :10:46.bringing the Royal household within the scope of the FOI Act. It is

:10:47. > :10:54.difficult to understand why it should not be in scope. FOI request

:10:55. > :10:58.would be subject to the public interest test. The Royal household

:10:59. > :11:04.is probably the most public of the public authorities. The veto allows

:11:05. > :11:08.ministers, for reasons of political embarrassment, to overturn

:11:09. > :11:11.considered decisions of the Commissioner or a tribunal. It

:11:12. > :11:15.allows them for bad reasons to overturn good decisions. Nor does

:11:16. > :11:20.this commission seek to consult on some of the tricks of the trade used

:11:21. > :11:26.to delay FOI responses, the absence of any time limits on internal FOI

:11:27. > :11:30.reviews. Something the news media Association is pressing for, and I

:11:31. > :11:34.am backing, 40 days seems reasonable. Currently, the absence

:11:35. > :11:38.of time limits provides apartments with a convenient delaying

:11:39. > :11:42.mechanism, and they are already adept at kicking into the long

:11:43. > :11:46.grass. Andrew Lansley's dairies for the period in the run-up to the

:11:47. > :11:50.health and social care rack to being a good case in point. They are of

:11:51. > :11:53.interest because of what they might reveal regarding the number of

:11:54. > :11:56.meetings with private health companies. Their release was fought

:11:57. > :12:02.on the grounds that there might be gaps in his diary which would have

:12:03. > :12:07.to be filled by spurious meetings to ensure he could not be accused of

:12:08. > :12:11.laziness. This is dismissed by the tribunal as incredible, quite

:12:12. > :12:15.rightly. On the other hand, the commission floats the idea of

:12:16. > :12:19.upfront charges for FOI requests. No precise figure is given, but could

:12:20. > :12:24.be at least ?20 in order to recoup the cost of invoicing. The

:12:25. > :12:28.introduction in Ireland of a 50 euros fee in 2003 resulted in a 70%

:12:29. > :12:47.collapse in the number of requests from the public.

:12:48. > :12:54.Other examples include Network Rail. They spent ?7.2 million on car

:12:55. > :13:00.allowances for senior staff last year, bringing the total spend to

:13:01. > :13:05.?35 million. This is a very welcome step, pressed by me and Norman

:13:06. > :13:14.Baker, to bring Network Rail into scope, which came into effect last

:13:15. > :13:19.year. If a fee was in place, for instance investigating all 43 police

:13:20. > :13:27.forces would cost ?863. There are over 260 NHS trusts which would push

:13:28. > :13:32.the costs of SOIing their performance to ?65,000. I am upset

:13:33. > :13:38.by the phrasing of the question, which startss from the perspective

:13:39. > :13:43.of saying that SOI is not a benefit. Parliament should always set an

:13:44. > :13:48.example when it comes to transparency. I support the press

:13:49. > :13:58.Association in their bid to ensure that alcohol. ... The request was

:13:59. > :14:02.rejected on grounds that to do so would breach confident sheltie and

:14:03. > :14:06.the conduct of public affairs but Parliament has a duty to lead on

:14:07. > :14:11.matters of transparency. Parliament, with the exception of matters

:14:12. > :14:18.relating to Parliamentary Echo privilege, should be treated like

:14:19. > :14:21.any other public authority and the subject to those tests. Whether the

:14:22. > :14:26.release of those documents could have been properly assessed. Mr

:14:27. > :14:30.Speaker, our democracy is healthier, more resilient and less vulnerable

:14:31. > :14:35.to ambush with tough and challenging FOIA laws in place. This bill would

:14:36. > :14:40.strengthen FOI to ensure that no one is above scrutiny, whether it is

:14:41. > :14:44.ministers, charity, Parliament or the Royal household. I urge the

:14:45. > :14:48.House to support my bill today. The question is that the right

:14:49. > :14:53.honourable member have leave to bring in the Bill. As many as are of

:14:54. > :14:59.that opinion say aye. The contrary, no. The eyes have it, the eyes have

:15:00. > :15:04.it. Who will bring in the Bill? Mr Ray Mallon, Mr Alistair Carmichael,

:15:05. > :15:08.Mark Durcan, Tim Farron, Mr David Davis, Caroline Lucas, Greg

:15:09. > :15:10.Mulholland, Norman Lamb, Mr Mark Williams and Mr David Winick and

:15:11. > :15:40.myself, Sir. Speaker of information, public

:15:41. > :15:46.interest and transparency bill. Second reading, what day? 11th of

:15:47. > :15:52.March. 11th of March thank you. We come now to the motion in the name

:15:53. > :15:57.of the Leader of the Opposition in relation to the reading of student

:15:58. > :16:04.maintenance rants. I call the shadow Minister, Mr Gordon Marsden. Thank

:16:05. > :16:06.you, Mr Speaker. The government's proposal to scrap maintenance grants

:16:07. > :16:11.for disadvantaged students and to replace it with a loan system is not

:16:12. > :16:16.an isolated one, it is part of a pattern happening across other areas

:16:17. > :16:19.of government and mirrored in changes eight days ago which removed

:16:20. > :16:24.NHS bursaries for nurses and other staff. It has also been foreshadowed

:16:25. > :16:29.by changes the government have made to further education support and

:16:30. > :16:32.protection over the past three or four years. The truth of the matter

:16:33. > :16:39.is that the government's position on this issue, they have ducked and

:16:40. > :16:45.dived to avoid debates on this direction of travel, which also

:16:46. > :16:48.includes freezing the payment threshold for five years, not

:16:49. > :16:52.specifically part of these regulations, although it is referred

:16:53. > :16:56.to in the assessment that comes with them. Also, likely to hit

:16:57. > :17:00.disadvantaged students. We have brought this debates today to hold

:17:01. > :17:04.them to account because this being such a major issue, the government

:17:05. > :17:08.have refused to bring the changes to the floor of the House themselves,

:17:09. > :17:12.preferring to sneak them through delegated legislation where it can

:17:13. > :17:20.be voted on by only a handful of MPs. I will give way. I am grateful

:17:21. > :17:25.to him for giving way. Does he not think it is particularly shameful

:17:26. > :17:30.that this proposal was not contained in the Conservative Party manifesto,

:17:31. > :17:35.and therefore has not just been sneaked in in the House of Commons,

:17:36. > :17:40.but has been sneaked in in the face of the knowledge of the people of

:17:41. > :17:46.this country. My honourable friend makes a very striking point. It is

:17:47. > :17:51.one of only a series of delinquencies in this matter that I

:17:52. > :17:54.want to move on to. The Tories, the government, the Conservative Party

:17:55. > :17:58.has shied away from the light of debate and scrutiny on this issue,

:17:59. > :18:01.preferring instead to use a legislative sleight of hand which

:18:02. > :18:05.has ensured that sweeping changes were made in committee in the hope

:18:06. > :18:10.that no one would notice. All the way through this process there have

:18:11. > :18:13.been -- they have been less than candid, defensive, systematically

:18:14. > :18:16.resisting a path of openness. There was little detail to be had when the

:18:17. > :18:20.Chancellor noted the change in the summer and not much more in the

:18:21. > :18:23.Autumn Statement. It was only when the NUS raised the alarm about the

:18:24. > :18:28.impact of the process and threatened judicial review on the lack of

:18:29. > :18:35.consultation that the failure to publish the equality assessment,

:18:36. > :18:42.which the government has not done, that the assessment was slipped out.

:18:43. > :18:44.My honourable friend, the Business -- the Shadow Business Secretary

:18:45. > :18:50.wrote to the Business Secretary to explain why we needed the full

:18:51. > :18:54.debate. It was reflected in a number of cross-party signatures. His reply

:18:55. > :18:58.largely ignored those issues. The issue of failing to bring it to the

:18:59. > :19:02.floor of the Commons, raised by the shadow leader in December. At that

:19:03. > :19:05.time, the leader in the House -- the Leader of the House intimated should

:19:06. > :19:10.be a debate but that has not subsequently taken place. My

:19:11. > :19:14.honourable friend's question was ducked last Wednesday and colleagues

:19:15. > :19:17.raised this issue again in business questions last week, and I put it in

:19:18. > :19:23.a series of detailed questions to the Minister and the legislation

:19:24. > :19:28.committee, for which I would like to see responses in due course. It is

:19:29. > :19:32.no surprise that the Independent lead today on the way in which this

:19:33. > :19:36.government has been using statutory instruments systematically to force

:19:37. > :19:40.through profound and controversial changes to laws without proper

:19:41. > :19:44.debate and scrutiny. Nor is it surprising that my honourable friend

:19:45. > :19:48.for quality told them that this is an arbitrary rule that massively

:19:49. > :19:55.decreases the power of the Commons to effectively scrutinise

:19:56. > :19:58.government. This equality impact assessment slipped out with relative

:19:59. > :20:01.lack of ceremony at the end of November and as I said last week,

:20:02. > :20:06.this is a document that almost dare not speak its name, not least

:20:07. > :20:12.because the detailed evidence of its impact was tucked away in its

:20:13. > :20:19.central pages, to which I will refer later, what is driving these panic

:20:20. > :20:25.measures, such as the ?1.5 billion raid on grants and the threshold

:20:26. > :20:28.freeze, is the belated recognition that the whole set of financial

:20:29. > :20:34.assumptions about repayments that underpins the freeze increase in --

:20:35. > :20:38.fees increase in 2012 is producing a black hole for them and future

:20:39. > :20:44.taxpayers. I will give way to my honourable friend. I am grateful to

:20:45. > :20:50.my honourable friend. Did a Tory minister not stand at that dispatch

:20:51. > :20:55.box in 2012 over the question of troubling fees and insurers that

:20:56. > :20:58.they would increase a national scholarship programme and

:20:59. > :21:00.maintenance grants to protect those students from the poorest

:21:01. > :21:05.backgrounds? Now they are scrapping both and trying to sneak it through.

:21:06. > :21:10.Isn't that an absolute betrayal? My honourable friend is absolutely

:21:11. > :21:13.right. He has obviously conducted some telepathy with me on that

:21:14. > :21:17.matter because I intend to refer to that later. I will give way to my

:21:18. > :21:21.honourable friend. My honourable friend refers to the impact

:21:22. > :21:25.statement. Does he think it is a scandal in 2015 that the impact

:21:26. > :21:31.statement which the NUS dragged out of the ministry, which confirms that

:21:32. > :21:37.this disproportionately affects black and minority ethnic students,

:21:38. > :21:41.women and the disabled, does not merit a proper vote and debate in

:21:42. > :21:46.this House? I entirely agree with my honourable friend, the distinguished

:21:47. > :21:52.skills minister in this House. And I think the points he makess are valid

:21:53. > :21:59.and ones which I will be coming on to in June course. -- the points he

:22:00. > :22:06.makes. This is not tinkering with existing financial registration. --

:22:07. > :22:13.legislation. I think he is referring to the fact that 45% of the student

:22:14. > :22:18.loan outlook, some ?5 billion, is delinquent in some way or other, and

:22:19. > :22:23.adding 1.6 billion to that, the government is building up a huge

:22:24. > :22:26.unfunded liability on its national accounts. I am grateful to my

:22:27. > :22:30.honourable friend, who has great experience in these matters. Indeed,

:22:31. > :22:35.not just the Institute for Fiscal Studies but other organisations have

:22:36. > :22:39.commented on this matter. I will give way briefly. Wonderful to hear

:22:40. > :22:43.the Labour Party talking about unfunded liabilities. Can I ask him,

:22:44. > :22:48.he mentioned the ?1.5 billion cost of this. The money that we will be

:22:49. > :22:52.saving. Can he confirmed, is at his party's policy to reverse this and

:22:53. > :22:58.if so, from where would they get the money? I am delighted that the

:22:59. > :23:02.honourable member is so looking forward to the arrival of a Labour

:23:03. > :23:06.government that he is already asking asked detailed questions on this

:23:07. > :23:12.matter. I would remind him that today is a day for governments to be

:23:13. > :23:17.held to account for their feelings, rather than us. -- their feelings. I

:23:18. > :23:28.must try to make progress. I will take more interventions later. These

:23:29. > :23:32.measures typical of the ideology driven and evidence light approach

:23:33. > :23:38.of this government. Every four years, a major departure of a

:23:39. > :23:42.policy. Only four years after they hailed the advantages to the

:23:43. > :23:47.disadvantaged, and statistics from the House of Commons library tell me

:23:48. > :23:50.that these will affect 500,000 of England's most disadvantaged

:23:51. > :23:54.students, amounting to a Domesday book listing the number of students

:23:55. > :23:59.who will lose grants under the new rules. Universities across England

:24:00. > :24:03.will be affected. Old and new. As well as other institutions. Further

:24:04. > :24:14.education colleges will be affected, because they make an increasingly

:24:15. > :24:20.valuable contribution, 10% and rising, and a disproportionate

:24:21. > :24:23.number of their students will be affected. I am grateful to my

:24:24. > :24:26.honourable friend and I commend him for bringing this debate to the

:24:27. > :24:31.House of Commons so that we can have a vote on this important issue. He

:24:32. > :24:36.talks about the impact on universities and colleges. He might

:24:37. > :24:42.have seen the information that has been released in December of last

:24:43. > :24:49.year, that shows that still today, twice as many young people from

:24:50. > :24:54.advantaged backgrounds go on to university than from disadvantaged

:24:55. > :24:57.backgrounds. How does he think that removing ?3500 worth of grants a

:24:58. > :25:03.year is going to assist social mobility? We will have something

:25:04. > :25:09.more to say about social mobility later on. But the reality of the

:25:10. > :25:14.matter is that it does not, and the attitude of the government... I will

:25:15. > :25:18.not give way, I will not give way. I have already indicated that there

:25:19. > :25:23.are a large number of people who wish to speak and I need to give

:25:24. > :25:30.them a chance to do so. I have already indicated I will give way.

:25:31. > :25:34.Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would my honourable friend agree with me that

:25:35. > :25:41.in the last Parliament, this government abolished the DNA for 16

:25:42. > :25:47.to 18-year-olds going into further education. Now they have abolished

:25:48. > :25:50.the grants for higher education. Yet they don't tax cuts for millionaires

:25:51. > :25:54.in the last Parliament. Does it not show that this Tory government is

:25:55. > :25:59.not concerned about the poor and disadvantaged in this country. Look

:26:00. > :26:02.at what they are doing with housing, university credit, disability and

:26:03. > :26:09.education. They just don't care. My honourable friend has referred to

:26:10. > :26:15.the abolition of the EN a grand, and that is not something for today but

:26:16. > :26:25.I think that is important. -- EMA grant. It points to the problems

:26:26. > :26:30.with these things, affecting further education colleges. It is a tumult

:26:31. > :26:33.of affected if the result is that people do not apply to those

:26:34. > :26:37.colleges in the future. That is why the Association of colleges said in

:26:38. > :26:41.response that they have real concerns about the proposed changes.

:26:42. > :26:45.Many of the students may never earn enough to pay back the money and the

:26:46. > :26:50.policy does appear to penalise the poorest. I have already indicated

:26:51. > :26:55.that I will not give way at this moment, I will give way in a little

:26:56. > :27:00.while. The expansion of higher education opportunities and further

:27:01. > :27:04.education colleges after 1997 was one of the most significant advances

:27:05. > :27:10.under the Labour government in this area. And it was a crucial part in

:27:11. > :27:14.beginning to address the lack of balance for higher education in the

:27:15. > :27:19.English regions outside of the areas of clusters of long established

:27:20. > :27:24.universities. It was part of a joined up strategy to embed higher

:27:25. > :27:26.education and skills in our local economies and through the regional

:27:27. > :27:33.development agencies at that time. In my own area of Blackpool, our

:27:34. > :27:39.college gained excellent new higher education blocks in that period.

:27:40. > :27:46.Today, over 2800 students are in that position of doing education

:27:47. > :27:51.there. We know in further education that many of the students come

:27:52. > :27:52.precisely from these nontraditional backgrounds for participation in

:27:53. > :28:04.higher education. He is deploying the same argument

:28:05. > :28:08.that was used against the introduction of tuition fees, which

:28:09. > :28:14.was by the previous Labour government and developed by the

:28:15. > :28:17.coalition. Yet what we have seen is an increase, and increase in the

:28:18. > :28:20.number of students from disadvantaged backgrounds going to

:28:21. > :28:27.university. His argument does not stack up! Perhaps if the honourable

:28:28. > :28:31.gentleman will listen as I speak further about the way in which these

:28:32. > :28:39.things have changed he will understand that the issue of what

:28:40. > :28:43.was introduced in 2012, and, I would say, apologies, but the explanations

:28:44. > :28:49.that his then come and gave for tripling Jewish and fees were based

:28:50. > :28:54.on a series of quid pro quos. They have all now been abandoned by this

:28:55. > :28:59.government. So the same pattern that I have talked about, incidentally,

:29:00. > :29:03.is seen in the numbers doing higher education in many of the so-called

:29:04. > :29:09.post-92 universities receiving a maintenance grant. And that is why

:29:10. > :29:13.in their briefing for debate today, the organisation Million Plus which

:29:14. > :29:17.has a significant number of those universities has expressed alarm.

:29:18. > :29:22.They say that by the jewel of nothing more than hassled incomes,

:29:23. > :29:31.some students will now be saddled with debts far in excess of their

:29:32. > :29:34.from students and repaying in five years will exacerbate this problem

:29:35. > :29:40.and it graduates the hardest. My former colleague, now vice

:29:41. > :29:45.Chancellor of the University and a former higher education minister has

:29:46. > :29:53.made those points in an excellent piece in Politics Home Today. Very

:29:54. > :29:56.briefly... Mine is one of the poorest constituencies in England

:29:57. > :30:02.yet rich in talent and maintenance grants mean a lot to students who

:30:03. > :30:06.want to get on. 42% depend on them. Does the honourable member agree

:30:07. > :30:10.with me that the government is both breaking a promise but also dashing

:30:11. > :30:18.the hopes and dreams of a generation of strivers? I absolutely agree with

:30:19. > :30:21.what might honourable friend says. He comes and speaks from that

:30:22. > :30:28.established part of the West Midlands which is in the process of

:30:29. > :30:30.trying to gain control over areas of activity in terms of their local

:30:31. > :30:36.economies. And what the government is doing the people in Birmingham

:30:37. > :30:43.and elsewhere is utterly confounding their own devolution prospects. I

:30:44. > :30:48.will not give way at this stage, I might do so later. Please. We know

:30:49. > :30:52.now, this is thanks to a question that I put to the honourable member,

:30:53. > :30:56.the universities minister, to establish the extent of the issue,

:30:57. > :31:03.how many people will be directly affected by the middle of the

:31:04. > :31:07.maintenance grant? Statistics show that 33,700 English applicants were

:31:08. > :31:09.awarded maintenance grants for higher education courses with

:31:10. > :31:15.further education colleges. Within that figure, we have a roll call of

:31:16. > :31:19.the English regions where it is not just the individuals but the local

:31:20. > :31:22.economies and the growth of the skills there that have benefited

:31:23. > :31:26.from this expansion of higher education and further education.

:31:27. > :31:30.From those same student loan companies coming here are some

:31:31. > :31:37.statistics for those on maintenance grants. In the north-west, Blackburn

:31:38. > :31:43.College has 1842, in the north-east, Newcastle College group, 1169, in

:31:44. > :31:50.south-west and Cornwall, Cornwall College, 931, and so the list goes

:31:51. > :31:53.on. And on top of that, and a crucial subset of those statistics

:31:54. > :31:59.is the numbers in those very areas where I've just referred to Mike

:32:00. > :32:01.honourable friend from the Ming, the government is currently encouraging

:32:02. > :32:07.combined authorities to take up their devolution offers. -- from

:32:08. > :32:12.Birmingham. And therefore to have control in or take a role in higher

:32:13. > :32:17.skills initiatives. Greater Manchester, 410 on maintenance

:32:18. > :32:22.grants at Stockport College. Merseyside, 542 at the city of

:32:23. > :32:28.Liverpool College. And the Institute of performing arts. Leeds, 1604

:32:29. > :32:34.across the colleges of music and art. And in London, with London's

:32:35. > :32:37.huge sector catering and as many of the groups identified in the

:32:38. > :32:42.qualities assessment, as my friend Mike the Member for Tottenham that,

:32:43. > :32:48.at a time of pressure already from area reviews, and cuts, this new

:32:49. > :32:53.proposal could be toxic. If the effect of these changes introduced

:32:54. > :32:57.without consultation is too blunt Catskills and Parliament, this

:32:58. > :33:03.government will be cutting off at the knees the very strategies for

:33:04. > :33:09.English devolution for skills and social mobility that they claim to

:33:10. > :33:13.be promoting. I will give way to my honourable friend. I thank my

:33:14. > :33:17.honourable friend for giving way. Last week the Prime Minister said

:33:18. > :33:21.his government's mission was to look every child in the eye and say, your

:33:22. > :33:25.dreams are our dreams, we will support you with everything we've

:33:26. > :33:32.got. Does Mike honourable friend agreed that scrapping grants, to

:33:33. > :33:39.more than 5000 young people in Tower Hamlets, is a cap on aspiration and

:33:40. > :33:45.stinks of hypocrisy? I certainly agree about the potential threat to

:33:46. > :33:51.her constituents. It underlines what I have said in the context of

:33:52. > :33:57.London. No, I will not give way on that point, until I have finished

:33:58. > :34:01.with this one. As to the point about hypocrisy, it is not for me to

:34:02. > :34:07.judge, I would recall that fine proverb that fine words but no

:34:08. > :34:10.parsnips! Who wished to intervene? Social mobility, will he welcomed

:34:11. > :34:14.the fact that more people from disadvantaged backgrounds are

:34:15. > :34:20.accessing higher education, up from when Labour were in power, 13.6%, to

:34:21. > :34:29.this or, more than 18%. Does he welcomed that? Blank of course I do.

:34:30. > :34:32.The point I am trying to establish, if the honourable gentleman and his

:34:33. > :34:36.colleagues would take the point, I'm trying to help them. These fine

:34:37. > :34:40.words about social mobility and increase and the rest of it will go

:34:41. > :34:48.in the opposite direction if they do not reconsider this measure. There

:34:49. > :34:51.are a great number of people who want to speak, I've taken a number

:34:52. > :34:57.of interventions already and I really must progress. I'm grateful

:34:58. > :35:01.to the honourable gentleman. So the House is aware, on present trends

:35:02. > :35:06.they will only be one hour in total for backbench speeches and 18 people

:35:07. > :35:09.want to speak. So I am underlining the potency of the point that the

:35:10. > :35:16.honourable gentleman has just made. Gordon Marsden. Mr Speaker. There is

:35:17. > :35:23.this factor, nudge away from progress, nudge away from groups and

:35:24. > :35:29.communities who are dead others, traditionally. Asking people at

:35:30. > :35:35.further education colleges, to take on up to ?50,000 worth of debt, in

:35:36. > :35:40.areas like the north-east, which in some areas could be the price of a

:35:41. > :35:44.small house or flat, is what would concern colleges like new College

:35:45. > :35:48.Durham, whose principal has said that nudge can work both ways,

:35:49. > :35:51.especially for people who have signed up for foundation courses and

:35:52. > :35:55.are considering going for honours. The more complex you make the

:35:56. > :36:00.funding process, the more it can seem a barrier. These concerns I

:36:01. > :36:04.know have been echoed by others recently. But it is the individual

:36:05. > :36:08.life chances that maybe blighted or disrupted by these changes that

:36:09. > :36:13.should weigh heavily on all of us. This is why NUS and their student

:36:14. > :36:17.bodies have been so passionate in campaigning against this change. And

:36:18. > :36:21.for me, all those individual cases and further education are summed up

:36:22. > :36:25.by the e-mail I got yesterday from a student in Blackpool, who writes to

:36:26. > :36:29.me as follows. Thank you for defending the students who will be

:36:30. > :36:34.affected by the loss of grants. I am from Blackpool, in the second year

:36:35. > :36:38.of my degree, and I am a married mature student with two children. I

:36:39. > :36:42.had illness as a child which is why I'm doing this in my late 30s. A

:36:43. > :36:47.complete U-turn by the government who said education shouldn't just be

:36:48. > :36:51.for the privileged and shouldn't exclude the poor has now done

:36:52. > :36:57.exactly that. So that is what my constituent says. These changes will

:36:58. > :37:03.also affect significant numbers of students in traditional university

:37:04. > :37:09.sector. 14,000 at Manchester, over 8000 at the University of matches

:37:10. > :37:15.do, almost 11,000 at Nottingham Trent, 3738 at College London. A

:37:16. > :37:18.potential list of lost opportunities, as I have said.

:37:19. > :37:23.Turning to the impact of the regulations themselves, we can only

:37:24. > :37:28.speculate on what impact they will have on the future cohorts of people

:37:29. > :37:34.who come in. But apart from other work done, the National education

:37:35. > :37:36.and opportunities network or the University and College union are

:37:37. > :37:44.currently undertaking research with more than 2000 final year students

:37:45. > :37:47.to look at how cost influences the higher education choices they make.

:37:48. > :37:52.The interim findings from that research show that more than half

:37:53. > :37:57.the students who are deciding not to go into higher education are taking

:37:58. > :37:59.that decision because of the lack of direct financial maintenance grant

:38:00. > :38:07.support which they had envisaged the year ahead. -- for the year ahead.

:38:08. > :38:10.The quality assessment states that as an aggregate level there is

:38:11. > :38:17.currently no evidence that the 2012 reforms which saw an increase in

:38:18. > :38:21.higher education fees or debt levels has had a significant impact in

:38:22. > :38:28.deterring young students from lower backgrounds. But I think that the

:38:29. > :38:32.operative word is that there is currently no evidence. Because that

:38:33. > :38:36.is now debatable. Because the safety net of maintenance grants which was

:38:37. > :38:41.introduced in 2012 with the tripling of the fees is now being removed.

:38:42. > :38:44.This is why the shadow Secretary of State wrote in her letter against

:38:45. > :38:47.these regulations, we are concerned that this change will not improve

:38:48. > :38:53.government finances in the long term. This echoes the view of the

:38:54. > :38:58.Institute of fiscal. The replacement of maintenance grants by loans in

:38:59. > :39:01.the system will raise debt for the poorest students and do little to

:39:02. > :39:09.improve government finances in the long run. The ISF states that in the

:39:10. > :39:12.short-term government borrowing will drop by ?2 million ago because

:39:13. > :39:16.current spending on grounds counts towards borrowing while current

:39:17. > :39:19.spending on loans does not. In the long run savings could well be less

:39:20. > :39:27.than this. And the amount of money lent to students will rise by about

:39:28. > :39:30.?2.3 billion for each cohort. But the IFS say only around one quarter

:39:31. > :39:35.of those additional loans are likely to be paid. The net effect is

:39:36. > :39:42.therefore to reduce government borrowing by ?270 million by cohort

:39:43. > :39:45.in the long run, but 80% decline in the government's estimated

:39:46. > :39:51.contribution to higher education. I want to quote the IFS have said. In

:39:52. > :39:56.a fair and balanced way, they say that students from households with

:39:57. > :39:59.pre-tax incomes of up to two and ?5,000, those currently eligible for

:40:00. > :40:09.maintenance grants, will have some more cash in pocket. Yet they will

:40:10. > :40:12.also graduate with 12 point ?5,000 -- ?12,000 moderate. So students

:40:13. > :40:16.from poorest backgrounds are likely to leave university owing much more

:40:17. > :40:20.to the government than their better of peers. It also states that the

:40:21. > :40:25.poorest 40% of students at university in England will now

:40:26. > :40:31.graduate with debts of up to ?53,000 from a three-year course, rather

:40:32. > :40:35.than at 240,500, resulting from the placement of maintenance grants. As

:40:36. > :40:39.I have already said, when the government tripled tuition fees in

:40:40. > :40:44.2012 they tried to sweeten the pill by talking up the centrality of the

:40:45. > :40:47.maintenance grant to ensure that the most disadvantaged could still

:40:48. > :40:49.access higher education. They promised three things. National

:40:50. > :40:54.scholarship programme, the maintenance grants for the

:40:55. > :40:59.disadvantaged programme, and earnings related threshold that

:41:00. > :41:03.would be upgraded with inflation. The then Minister of universities,

:41:04. > :41:07.David Willetts, said, the increase in maintenance grants to students

:41:08. > :41:10.from households with the lowest incomes, the National Scottish

:41:11. > :41:16.programme, additional fair access requirements should ensure the

:41:17. > :41:20.reforms do not affect individuals from lower socioeconomic backgrounds

:41:21. > :41:25.disproportionately. That is what the Minister's predecessor in a

:41:26. > :41:29.Conservative led government said in 2011-2012. But the regulations that

:41:30. > :41:31.the government passed last week will disadvantage the very same group of

:41:32. > :41:37.students that the government promised to protect. David Willetts

:41:38. > :41:43.previously lauded these measures as a quid pro quo the troubling of

:41:44. > :41:46.tuition fees, saying, they help to encourage people from poorer

:41:47. > :41:50.backgrounds to go to university. Because of the higher education

:41:51. > :41:54.maintenance grant, because of a higher repayment threshold. Now all

:41:55. > :42:00.three elements of those promises have been broken, since the

:42:01. > :42:04.election, by this government. The Minister's colleagues, now Lord

:42:05. > :42:08.Willets, must be revolving in his ermine and the way his promises have

:42:09. > :42:14.been so lightly regarded by this government. They set great store by

:42:15. > :42:16.the principle of note, actions persuading people to change their

:42:17. > :42:20.behaviour is for the better. I reminded the Minister last week and

:42:21. > :42:25.I do so again that it's possible to people away from desirable outcomes,

:42:26. > :42:30.rather than towards them. And a new study shows that more than half the

:42:31. > :42:36.applicants said that they had felt that off by the cost of university.

:42:37. > :42:40.That is backed up by what the sudden Trust has said. Shifting grants to

:42:41. > :42:45.loans may move them off the balance sheet, but it and could also

:42:46. > :42:49.determining low and middle-income students and to the balance against

:42:50. > :42:52.their going to university. Since grounds were reintroduced there have

:42:53. > :42:57.been significant improvements and we welcome that. -- since grants were

:42:58. > :43:02.reduced. Yet they will be put at risk by today's budget plans.

:43:03. > :43:05.Research from the NUS published last week shows parents are concerned

:43:06. > :43:08.that the government 's plans to scrap the maintenance grant will

:43:09. > :43:16.discourage their children from going to university. Two fifths of those

:43:17. > :43:19.believe that to be the case. And the range of the groups affected by

:43:20. > :43:29.these changes is daunting. The assessment concedes that some

:43:30. > :43:33.students in particular will be worse off, as for older learners, mature

:43:34. > :43:37.students will be disproportionately impacted by the policy proposals to

:43:38. > :43:42.move the full grant and replace it with an additional loan as well as

:43:43. > :43:43.the freezing of targeted grants. The government has also conceded in this

:43:44. > :43:56.assessment that disabled people will be

:43:57. > :43:58.disproportionately affected by the decision not protect the real Thames

:43:59. > :44:00.Valley of disabled students allowances. The assessment also

:44:01. > :44:01.spells out the potential for discrimination over religious

:44:02. > :44:06.belief, stating that evidence suggests that there are groups of

:44:07. > :44:11.Muslim students whose beliefs will prevent them from taking out such a

:44:12. > :44:13.loan and finally women are to be affected disproportionately. The

:44:14. > :44:19.assessment says that female students will be particularly affected by the

:44:20. > :44:22.loss of childcare grants, and parental allowances, given their

:44:23. > :44:29.significant overrepresentation in this population. Further to this,

:44:30. > :44:32.the scrapping of 24 plus loans in further education is relevant to the

:44:33. > :44:36.case today, because it indicates what has happened in previous

:44:37. > :44:40.circumstances where the government has gone down this road. The

:44:41. > :44:44.Minister knows that the government released figures in October 20 15th

:44:45. > :44:48.which showed clear evidence of the deterrent impact on learners that I

:44:49. > :44:52.and others want about when these loans were introduced as

:44:53. > :44:59.replacements for grants in January 20 13. -- we warned about them. The

:45:00. > :45:02.figures show that in 2014-15 only ?149 million of the 390 's and

:45:03. > :45:08.million pounds allocated to the process had been taken up. No wonder

:45:09. > :45:12.people in the further education community have lamented the lost

:45:13. > :45:16.opportunity of ?250 million that could have helped some of our and

:45:17. > :45:24.most disadvantaged learners. And now the very group of people who

:45:25. > :45:26.benefited from the concessions given in 2013 by the honourable

:45:27. > :45:32.predecessor of the Minister, the Member for the deep things, that

:45:33. > :45:35.those who took that access to higher education courses would then have

:45:36. > :45:37.the outstanding amount written off and that access course alone now

:45:38. > :45:49.face another knock-back from this. These details should give the

:45:50. > :45:53.Government pours the thought. It also appears the Government is yet

:45:54. > :45:57.to produce any up-to-date estimate of the impact that the shift from

:45:58. > :46:00.grants to loans will have on resource accounting and budgeting,

:46:01. > :46:05.which calculates the cost of the Government or the higher education

:46:06. > :46:09.funding system based on how much students are expected ultimately to

:46:10. > :46:13.repay. What I would like to add the Minister and his colleagues today,

:46:14. > :46:16.having heard the evidence that we have presented so far and comments

:46:17. > :46:19.from around the floor, if they have been so confident about these

:46:20. > :46:26.policies, why did they not bring them to the floor of the House? More

:46:27. > :46:30.to the point, why did they not consult experts and organisations,

:46:31. > :46:34.why did they not commission research from the reputable policy bodies?

:46:35. > :46:37.Last month with a number of other MPs I sat in the corridor of this

:46:38. > :46:42.place listening to hundreds of students who had come to lobby us.

:46:43. > :46:46.Their message was a consistent one, scrapping maintenance grants will

:46:47. > :46:50.leave poor people struggling to go to university. People here today

:46:51. > :46:54.have talked about consequences, people talk about their own

:46:55. > :46:58.experiences. I was a tutor for the open University the 20 years and

:46:59. > :47:02.know the experience of many students who I taught was that they had been

:47:03. > :47:10.put off higher education at an earlier age by the costs. Things do

:47:11. > :47:17.not alter just because we are in the digital world of the 21st-century.

:47:18. > :47:19.This cannot be divorced from the precarious position that so many of

:47:20. > :47:28.those who studied part-time at present face statistics have shown

:47:29. > :47:41.the number of first year part-time student in 2014 is down 6% on

:47:42. > :47:43.previous years. The number of part-time higher education students

:47:44. > :47:49.and the Conservatives came into office has fallen by nearly 40%. No

:47:50. > :47:53.wonder the NUS has shown exasperation in this matter, and of

:47:54. > :48:02.course related it to the trebling of student fees since 2012 for England

:48:03. > :48:05.and English students, and no wonder also that the president of

:48:06. > :48:09.universities UK and the Vice Chancellor of the University of cant

:48:10. > :48:11.said the decline of part-time numbers was a serious cause for

:48:12. > :48:30.concern. In the meantime, the nudge factors

:48:31. > :48:33.are very strong against it, the open University has expressed its

:48:34. > :48:40.alarming commenting on the Minister's higher education green

:48:41. > :48:44.paper that the flexible learning is that the heart of the development.

:48:45. > :48:46.Isn't this why we need a proper discussion, and aren't they were

:48:47. > :48:52.reasons why, and I invite the Minister to say so in his response,

:48:53. > :48:57.we need to have a commitment to the further education bill being brought

:48:58. > :49:03.to the House? There is a lack of balance and this issue is not going

:49:04. > :49:06.to go away. It is not the prize in connection have been made between

:49:07. > :49:09.the specific ways this Government has tried to dodge scrutiny in this

:49:10. > :49:13.matter. No wonder the Minister appeared in at ease in committee.

:49:14. > :49:21.But perhaps the blame lies elsewhere. In the article, it says

:49:22. > :49:24.it is the Chancellor who tried to smuggle through his tax credit

:49:25. > :49:29.changes and we almost what happened to them. It is the Treasury that

:49:30. > :49:34.mismanaged the process. The Chancellor is promoting himself as

:49:35. > :49:38.the Government's Master builder. He preens himself as he boast about the

:49:39. > :49:41.march of the makers and the Government under his watch fixing

:49:42. > :49:47.the roof while the sun is shining. But the truth is the Chancellor is a

:49:48. > :49:53.manual have to read the small print with. This is a man who has

:49:54. > :49:58.consistently mixed target and as far as building a future for Britain's

:49:59. > :50:01.learners is concerned, he is Mr dodgy, whose actions are not likely

:50:02. > :50:06.to get him a certificate from the Confederation of Master builders.

:50:07. > :50:11.When the sun is shining, he has dislodged slates on the way down and

:50:12. > :50:15.disguised cuts in adult skills and efficiencies as his new officials

:50:16. > :50:20.call them. He is pushing those students precisely off the ladder of

:50:21. > :50:26.social mobility. It is time for him to get real. In the real world, when

:50:27. > :50:29.the inactivity of demand eventually snaps and stretching the envelope

:50:30. > :50:35.will finally break it, the direction of travel by threatening to deliver

:50:36. > :50:39.not a northern powerhouse but a northern poorhouse and underlining

:50:40. > :50:44.his regional strategy, we want no part of this narrative of failure,

:50:45. > :50:47.and nor should this House. That is why we calling this afternoon to

:50:48. > :50:54.make ministers think again, to support this notion and to an old

:50:55. > :50:59.this misguided regulation that this Government has tried to hide away.

:51:00. > :51:03.The question is as on the order paper. Before I call the Minister of

:51:04. > :51:09.State for universities and science, for whom the House will want to hear

:51:10. > :51:14.and will need to tweak the matters in property tell, I gently expressed

:51:15. > :51:18.the hope that the combined affect of the intellectual powerhouses on the

:51:19. > :51:22.two frontbenchers and their enthusiasm for communication will

:51:23. > :51:27.not succeed in crowding out backbenchers. We have also to hear

:51:28. > :51:31.from other distinguished intellects later on in summing up the debate

:51:32. > :51:37.and I hope that the product of their grey cells will be meeting and it

:51:38. > :51:43.will not be too big -- will be meaty. Minister. I welcome the

:51:44. > :51:49.opportunity to explain why it would be a mistake to vote for the

:51:50. > :51:52.opposition most sins -- motions which attempted to annul the

:51:53. > :51:56.committee last Thursday. The instrument delivers the Government's

:51:57. > :52:02.policy to offer increased financial support the living costs for new in

:52:03. > :52:08.the 16th-17 academic year in the form of loans rather than grants. It

:52:09. > :52:09.is part of a plan to ensure our world-class higher education sector

:52:10. > :52:13.remained sustainably financed and open to more students from all

:52:14. > :52:16.backgrounds. This Government is extending the benefits of higher

:52:17. > :52:20.education to more people than ever before. We have lifted the

:52:21. > :52:25.artificial cap on student numbers, and I went record numbers to secure

:52:26. > :52:31.places last year. With a higher education sector that is not

:52:32. > :52:34.sustainable funded -- but a higher education sector that is not

:52:35. > :52:38.sustainable funded cannot deliver what students expect. In the context

:52:39. > :52:43.of fiscal restraint, ensuring we have a sustainable model that our

:52:44. > :52:47.higher education system is crucial. In this respect, this measure builds

:52:48. > :52:52.on successful reforms since 2010 which delivered a higher education

:52:53. > :52:56.system that delivers full students and taxpayers. The OECD has

:52:57. > :53:00.commended these reforms for the sensible balance they strike between

:53:01. > :53:04.the interests of taxpayers and students and its directory of higher

:53:05. > :53:09.education has said England is one of the very few countries that has

:53:10. > :53:12.figured out a sustainable approach to higher education financing.

:53:13. > :53:15.Recently on a trip to and on he added, England has made a wise

:53:16. > :53:22.choice. It works for individuals, it works for Government. I am grateful

:53:23. > :53:27.to him. If it is so well and good, why wasn't it in his manifesto? I am

:53:28. > :53:32.grateful to the honourable member for raising that point. If you read

:53:33. > :53:37.page 35 of the Conservative Party manifesto he will see a clear

:53:38. > :53:43.commitment to continuing the funding reforms I have just described, and

:53:44. > :53:47.ensuring a fair balance between the interests of taxpayers and students.

:53:48. > :53:52.There are also many other references in the Conservative manifesto to the

:53:53. > :53:58.need to achieve budget deficit savings. Mr Speaker, may I start by

:53:59. > :54:01.beginning to address the questions about the scrutiny of the

:54:02. > :54:05.regulations, points raised by the honourable member opposite? These

:54:06. > :54:10.were not sneaked in, as he suggested. The policy was first

:54:11. > :54:15.announced in principle at the summer 15 budget nearly six months ago. It

:54:16. > :54:18.was in fact included in the Chancellor's summer budget speech,

:54:19. > :54:23.one of the most closely scrutinised if events in the Parliamentary

:54:24. > :54:28.calendar. The decision finally to proceed was made as part of the

:54:29. > :54:31.Spending Review in November 2015 and the instrument was laid before the

:54:32. > :54:37.House on December the 2nd. A comprehensive 80 page equity and

:54:38. > :54:40.equality analysis was published the next day in line with an earlier

:54:41. > :54:45.commitment and made voluntarily to this House. I will say more about

:54:46. > :54:50.this later. The regulations were made under power was granted to the

:54:51. > :54:55.Secretary of State either previous Labour Government under the teaching

:54:56. > :54:59.and higher education act 1998, rather than using some obscure and

:55:00. > :55:05.arcane procedure as honourable members, let me finish my point,

:55:06. > :55:07.have suggested. We are following the very Parliamentary processes which

:55:08. > :55:13.the last Labour Government created for this purpose. Labour asked for a

:55:14. > :55:16.debate on the regulations on December the 9th. The Government

:55:17. > :55:23.tabled a motion which appeared on the order paper on January the 5th

:55:24. > :55:28.referring these regulations do a delegation committee. Labour did not

:55:29. > :55:33.object. The regulations went to the delegated Legislation committee on

:55:34. > :55:37.January 14. Put simply, the process were put in place by Labour when

:55:38. > :55:41.they were lasting Government, and they didn't object to it on January

:55:42. > :55:45.the 5th, when they had the chance. I now welcome the chance very much to

:55:46. > :55:49.debate the issue further this afternoon on this opposition Day

:55:50. > :55:55.debate, knowing the other place will also get a chance to consider the

:55:56. > :56:00.instrument following the motion tabled on January 30. I thank him

:56:01. > :56:06.for giving great. I have been contacted by a large number of

:56:07. > :56:08.people including students from Gosford Academy, Newcastle and

:56:09. > :56:12.Cumbria universities, and they would like to know from the Minister when

:56:13. > :56:17.they will have the opportunity to feed into the public consultation on

:56:18. > :56:23.this issue? This is a matter which the House has debated in the

:56:24. > :56:29.delegated Legislation committee. There was a thorough 80 page

:56:30. > :56:31.analysis, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills

:56:32. > :56:34.maintains an ongoing regular dialogue with all stakeholders on

:56:35. > :56:41.matters relating to higher education. We welcome the scrutiny

:56:42. > :56:44.because this Government is rightly proud of its record on higher

:56:45. > :56:52.education. Since 2010 we have delivered bold reform of higher

:56:53. > :56:59.education putting in place a funding model that has ensured our

:57:00. > :57:08.risen in real terms, it has able

:57:09. > :57:14.to 26 billion in 2014 and is forecast to rise by 2017-18. Let's

:57:15. > :57:19.not forget the difficult fiscal circumstances in which this was

:57:20. > :57:22.achieved, against the background of a record deficit, providing this

:57:23. > :57:25.financial security could only be achieved by asking students to meet

:57:26. > :57:29.a greater part of their education paid not upfront but out of their

:57:30. > :57:33.future earnings. This recognised the principle that if you benefit from

:57:34. > :57:38.higher education and secure higher lifetime earnings and people who do

:57:39. > :57:42.not go to university, you should contribute to the cost of your

:57:43. > :57:46.education. I thank the Minister forgiving way. He is aware that

:57:47. > :57:51.students from disadvantaged backgrounds are less likely to go to

:57:52. > :57:55.university already. Those from more advantageous backgrounds to .5 times

:57:56. > :58:00.more likely. This change will make it much worse. Can he please face up

:58:01. > :58:05.to the facts and do something to to this question. If the Government was

:58:06. > :58:07.serious about social mobility these cuts would not be made and he should

:58:08. > :58:15.be honest about that. This government is committed to

:58:16. > :58:20.social mobility and we are delighted we have more students now going into

:58:21. > :58:27.higher education than ever before at a record level of 18.5%. You are now

:58:28. > :58:30.36% more likely to go to university if you are from a disadvantaged

:58:31. > :58:35.background today than you were when we took office in 2010. The Prime

:58:36. > :58:41.Minister has committed to doubling the proportion of students from

:58:42. > :58:45.disadvantaged pup backgrounds by 2020 and we are doing everything in

:58:46. > :58:51.our power to ensure that happens. It is this sustainable model of funding

:58:52. > :58:57.that has allowed us to have more people benefit. Removing the cap on

:58:58. > :59:00.student numbers has allowed more people to benefit from higher

:59:01. > :59:07.education than ever before and now almost 50% of young people are

:59:08. > :59:16.likely to undertake some form of higher education in their lifetime.

:59:17. > :59:19.Brighton and Hove City Council has set up the fairness commission to

:59:20. > :59:25.ensure it delivers fairness and social mobility in its policy

:59:26. > :59:32.making. With 3700 students out of 10,000 at Sussex University on

:59:33. > :59:39.maintenance grants, has at their job to lawful lot harder because of your

:59:40. > :59:45.policy? -- hasn't their job. What the honourable member can tell his

:59:46. > :59:50.constituents is that higher education remains a transformation

:59:51. > :00:02.experience. They are likely to go on to earn a lot more over their

:00:03. > :00:07.lifetime than if they don't. We must acknowledge the success of our

:00:08. > :00:12.reforms, as a consequence, we have found today a higher education

:00:13. > :00:15.system with record numbers going to university, record numbers of people

:00:16. > :00:22.from disadvantaged backgrounds going to university, the highest rates of

:00:23. > :00:33.BME participation and more women are displayed than ever before. This all

:00:34. > :00:42.stems from a clear manifesto commitment. What I would like to say

:00:43. > :00:46.to members opposite is that those of them who oppose this policy today

:00:47. > :00:51.and want to introduce more direct taxpayer support us think about

:00:52. > :00:55.whether they would also have to reintroduce the student number

:00:56. > :00:57.controls we abolished and prevent thousands of young people from

:00:58. > :01:02.attending university. Does the honourable member wished to

:01:03. > :01:09.reintroduced student number controls? Applications to the most

:01:10. > :01:17.selective universities from students from lower income has fallen since

:01:18. > :01:22.2010. What impact will this policy have on that number dropping

:01:23. > :01:26.further? We want people from disadvantaged backgrounds to go to

:01:27. > :01:29.the very best universities in this country. We want to see those

:01:30. > :01:33.numbers increase which is why we have in our guidance letters to the

:01:34. > :01:37.director of the office for spare access, asked him to pay particular

:01:38. > :01:42.attention to institutions that are not pulling their weight in terms of

:01:43. > :01:51.getting people in from disadvantaged backgrounds. We will continue that

:01:52. > :01:54.in our next letter. In terms of painful university, does the

:01:55. > :02:04.Minister agree that it is difficult for me to explain to people in my

:02:05. > :02:11.constituency, that the alternative is for them to pay more in their

:02:12. > :02:16.taxes? That is precisely the point. It is unfair on people who do not go

:02:17. > :02:19.to university to pay for education of those who go on in their

:02:20. > :02:24.lifetimes to earn a considerable youth more than they will

:02:25. > :02:28.themselves, on average men who go to university will earn ?170,000 more

:02:29. > :02:35.in their working life time than someone with two available to does

:02:36. > :02:39.not go to university. It is entirely fair that we ensure that they

:02:40. > :02:44.contribute to the cost of their higher education. Let me now turn to

:02:45. > :02:49.specific changes to student finance to the coming academic year. The

:02:50. > :02:55.instrument delivers more money for students from some of the most

:02:56. > :02:57.disadvantaged backgrounds. Evidence suggests students are primarily

:02:58. > :03:01.concerned about the level of maintenance support they receive are

:03:02. > :03:04.studying. They understand student loans are not like commercial debt

:03:05. > :03:10.in that they are progressive and only repaid in line with future

:03:11. > :03:12.incomes. As a result of these regulations and eligible student

:03:13. > :03:16.whose family income is ?25,000 or less and who is living away from

:03:17. > :03:21.home and studying outside London will qualify for up to 10.3% more in

:03:22. > :03:27.living costs are poured in 2016-17 than they would under current

:03:28. > :03:32.arrangements. An additional support. Those who vote for the motion to

:03:33. > :03:38.annul this will deny poorer students this extra cash. Studies show the

:03:39. > :03:46.graduates will on average earn ?100,000 more over their lifetime.

:03:47. > :04:00.This premium could reach ?250,000 for female graduates than those who

:04:01. > :04:04.have two A-levels or less. The system we put in place ensures

:04:05. > :04:07.higher education is open to everyone with the potential to benefit from

:04:08. > :04:13.it irrespective of background. Oppositions them scaremongering only

:04:14. > :04:21.risks deterring students from attending university. Whilst the

:04:22. > :04:27.data available so far is only provisional, data from UCAS

:04:28. > :04:38.indicates application rates are broadly in line with last year.

:04:39. > :04:50.Let's not undo the good work of people touring the country. Over

:04:51. > :04:56.45,000 from England each year choose to study elsewhere in the UK. How

:04:57. > :05:00.does scrapping the maintenance grants incentivise them to travel

:05:01. > :05:04.further from their home to get the benefit of education at universities

:05:05. > :05:08.outside of England? I would point out to the honourable member that we

:05:09. > :05:11.are making a record amount of financial support available to those

:05:12. > :05:14.students, more than has been provided by any previous government

:05:15. > :05:19.and that will enable them to travel further away from home. Let me turn

:05:20. > :05:25.to the significant savings achieved by these changes. The switch from

:05:26. > :05:32.maintenance grants to loans will save around ?2.5 billion per year

:05:33. > :05:39.from the fiscal deficit. We acknowledge the proportion of loans

:05:40. > :05:41.will not be repaid. This is a conscious decision to invest in the

:05:42. > :05:46.skills base of our country and protect those who go on to lower

:05:47. > :05:50.paying graduate jobs. We forecast the long-term annual economic

:05:51. > :06:02.savings will be around ?800 million per year. The Minister said there

:06:03. > :06:07.was a deficit review. I agree with all points he made on grounds of

:06:08. > :06:17.social mobility that isn't the point this, 45% of his loan book at the

:06:18. > :06:21.moment declared delinquent for Ron reason or another. How much of this

:06:22. > :06:25.will he get back? Isn't he just pretending he was making savings,

:06:26. > :06:31.when really he is building up unfunded liabilities? There was an

:06:32. > :06:36.immediate grant saving of ?2.5 billion which directly comes off the

:06:37. > :06:41.budget deficit. As I just mentioned, there is also the prospect of some

:06:42. > :06:45.loans not being repaid. As a result of a conscious decision by the

:06:46. > :06:55.government to invest in the skills base of the country. The economic

:06:56. > :06:59.value of the savings is ?800 million a year in steady state. I challenge

:07:00. > :07:03.the opposition to explain how they would find their alternatives. I

:07:04. > :07:05.note the Labour Party have in the past year put forward competing

:07:06. > :07:11.higher education funding policies and that they share one significant

:07:12. > :07:16.feature and that is their huge cost to the taxpayer. Labour's leader

:07:17. > :07:21.Jeremy Corbyn said in July that these should be removed completely

:07:22. > :07:27.with grants retained in full. This was costed by Labour itself at ?10

:07:28. > :07:31.billion. These policies because backwards, they are unsustainable

:07:32. > :07:35.and at a conservative estimate would add over ?40 billion to the deficit

:07:36. > :07:39.over a five-year parliament. We should be clear about what this

:07:40. > :07:42.would mean, it would mean more reckless borrowing, more taxes on

:07:43. > :07:47.hard-working people and the reintroduction of student number

:07:48. > :07:50.controls. We have lifted these controls and we went to allow the

:07:51. > :07:56.Labour Party to reimpose a cap on young people's aspirations. I will

:07:57. > :07:59.turn now to the risks associated with this policy as set out in the

:08:00. > :08:04.quality analysis. Let me first quickly address the full circulation

:08:05. > :08:09.that we refuse to print published the assessment and all prompted to

:08:10. > :08:20.do do so by the NUS. This is not true. And equality analysis covering

:08:21. > :08:24.the changes is published. This is standard practice. On the 14th of

:08:25. > :08:29.September I provided a written response to a Parliamentary question

:08:30. > :08:36.saying, the government expects to laymen mince to the education

:08:37. > :08:45.student support regulations and publish something when they are

:08:46. > :08:48.laid. It was only on the 22nd of September 2015, more than one week

:08:49. > :08:52.after this answer, that the NUS gave notice that they were seeking to

:08:53. > :08:55.legally challenge our policy. There has been no pervasiveness in

:08:56. > :09:01.presenting this policy or its potential impacts. Let me turn

:09:02. > :09:05.finally to some of the issues that the equality analysis identifies and

:09:06. > :09:09.how they will be mitigated. Simmer issues were identified as a result

:09:10. > :09:15.of the 20 12th reforms that did not crystallise. We have a world-class

:09:16. > :09:22.higher education system with record numbers of disadvantage students in

:09:23. > :09:26.higher education. Our impact assessment and explained the risks

:09:27. > :09:33.will be mitigated by at least three factors including the 10.3% increase

:09:34. > :09:36.in maximum loan for living costs, the repayment protection for low

:09:37. > :09:40.earning students and high average returns to higher education. More

:09:41. > :09:52.funding is also being provided through access agreements. Into a

:09:53. > :09:55.216- is 17, -- this is money that makes the difference to disadvantage

:09:56. > :10:09.students. The University of York, 40% of

:10:10. > :10:12.students get a maintenance grant. What impact assessment have you had

:10:13. > :10:18.on universities by not attracting the students because they cannot

:10:19. > :10:23.afford to attend? As I have already said and I say again to the

:10:24. > :10:27.honourable member, we're making a record amount of financial support

:10:28. > :10:31.available and students from the poorest backgrounds will benefit

:10:32. > :10:35.from a 10.3% increase in financial support available. They will have

:10:36. > :10:39.more cash in their pockets than ever before. I hope I have been able to

:10:40. > :10:43.clarify some of the misconceptions around this policy. The steps we are

:10:44. > :10:48.taking to increase living costs port and the process surrounding it and I

:10:49. > :10:53.will finish by appointing members opposite is the direction of Ed

:10:54. > :10:58.balls interview in the Times. He said the blot on neighbours copybook

:10:59. > :11:01.is that we clearly didn't find a sustainable way forward for the

:11:02. > :11:06.financing of higher education. If the electric think you have the

:11:07. > :11:13.answer to the future, they will support you. -- electorate. We are

:11:14. > :11:15.taking action to ensure university finances are sustainable so more

:11:16. > :11:24.people can benefit from higher education than ever before.

:11:25. > :11:29.Before I call the front bench spokesperson for the SNP, can I

:11:30. > :11:33.remind you that there are 18 people that want to catch my eye. Wind ups

:11:34. > :11:38.will start in just over an hour so we will have a time limit of three

:11:39. > :11:41.or four minutes by the time we get to backbench contributions, so if

:11:42. > :11:48.you could be as concise as possible we will hopefully get everybody in.

:11:49. > :11:56.Madam Deputy Speaker, education has been a priority in Scotland for over

:11:57. > :12:00.300 years. In the mid-16th century the established church in Scotland

:12:01. > :12:04.decided to set up a school in every parish to enable children to read

:12:05. > :12:12.the Bible and access its teachings. By the early 18th century, Scottish

:12:13. > :12:16.children lead the world in terms of literacy levels, and fuelled the

:12:17. > :12:22.Scottish Enlightenment. This is important because it highlights the

:12:23. > :12:26.differences in terms of how education is geared across these

:12:27. > :12:30.isles. The focus in Scotland remains the student. There is a commitment

:12:31. > :12:34.not only to the young person's education but also an

:12:35. > :12:39.acknowledgement that the same young person will develop skills through

:12:40. > :12:48.their university career that make them an asset to the country. No, I

:12:49. > :12:54.won't. I have been reminded to be brief. In contrast, what we see from

:12:55. > :13:00.this Tory Government is an ideological attack on the most

:13:01. > :13:04.disadvantaged students. Whilst still at school, talented pupils in

:13:05. > :13:07.England have had their education maintenance allowance scrapped,

:13:08. > :13:12.forcing some youngsters to leave before they have reached their

:13:13. > :13:17.potential. In England and Wales we see fees of ?9,000 per year being

:13:18. > :13:22.imposed on students, and now we see Grants for the poorest being

:13:23. > :13:29.scrapped with the Chancellor describing them as unaffordable.

:13:30. > :13:35.Using language such as unaffordable, does the Chancellor considered these

:13:36. > :13:39.young people to be an asset? In my previous profession as a secondary

:13:40. > :13:45.school teacher, I often came across extremely able pupils from difficult

:13:46. > :13:54.backgrounds. It was important early on in their school career to planned

:13:55. > :13:59.a seed about possible career aspirations, because even with their

:14:00. > :14:03.academic success, to get them to university was not a certainty, and

:14:04. > :14:05.a lot of work had to be done both with the young people and their

:14:06. > :14:15.parents to encourage this progression. The honourable lady

:14:16. > :14:18.speaks with eloquence and knowledge because her past in secondary

:14:19. > :14:23.education has given her a great experience and I very much welcome

:14:24. > :14:26.her contribution. I would, though, challenge the way she is expressing

:14:27. > :14:29.herself on the difference between Scottish and English education on

:14:30. > :14:33.the grounds that English education has seen a greater mobility of

:14:34. > :14:36.children from all backgrounds to achieve tertiary education and in

:14:37. > :14:40.Scotland that is increasingly not the case. Would she not agree with

:14:41. > :14:46.me that the Scottish National party's achievement in the last five

:14:47. > :14:51.years has been a fall in social and the international re-education, and

:14:52. > :14:58.not arise? Once we hear the myth being expressed -- in tertiary

:14:59. > :15:01.education. If we look at numbers of young people going directly from

:15:02. > :15:08.school to university there is work to be done, non-bus would that.

:15:09. > :15:12.However, in Scotland, young people have many more pathways to access

:15:13. > :15:16.university, and if we look at the number of children going through

:15:17. > :15:20.further education colleges, the numbers of young people from

:15:21. > :15:26.disadvantaged backgrounds in Scotland are significantly higher

:15:27. > :15:30.than the rest of the UK. To go back to these young people and their

:15:31. > :15:35.parents, and eventually the chat would change to the logistics and

:15:36. > :15:40.how they were going to afford it. We had to go into the detail. Of

:15:41. > :15:44.course, the parent usually full of pride, often the child is the first

:15:45. > :15:48.in the family to have even thought about going to university.

:15:49. > :15:53.Explaining that in Scotland tuition is free makes a huge difference, but

:15:54. > :15:58.then the parents still have to weigh things up. They have been expecting

:15:59. > :16:02.a new breadwinner contributing to the household. They have been

:16:03. > :16:07.expecting that their daughter or son's Saturday job was going to

:16:08. > :16:15.become their full career. Instead, the financial burden on the families

:16:16. > :16:24.is stretching on. I will give way. I am grateful. My constituent is an

:16:25. > :16:31.English student studying in Wales, already facing debts of ?36,000, and

:16:32. > :16:36.if these proposals went through it would rise to 60 5000. Does the

:16:37. > :16:40.honourable lady think this will encourage him to pursue his career

:16:41. > :16:49.path into teaching or not -- rise to ?65,000. The fact is the barrier

:16:50. > :16:58.then becomes unsurmountable for these young people will stop I was

:16:59. > :17:03.one of five who managed to go to university and got grants at that

:17:04. > :17:10.time. For my family it would have been impossible for us to access a

:17:11. > :17:14.university education. Being able to say to these parents, yes, there is

:17:15. > :17:18.some support available, yes, you will be able to apply for financial

:17:19. > :17:24.help, it makes a massive difference to the decisions of family will

:17:25. > :17:32.make. When there is less family support around, this financial

:17:33. > :17:37.support of a grant becomes a lifeline. Of course, students can

:17:38. > :17:41.apply for loans to support them through their course, and many do,

:17:42. > :17:47.but we have to understand that loans are not viewed in a similar manner

:17:48. > :17:51.from children across different backgrounds. For families who are

:17:52. > :17:57.living under the constant threat of debt, for whom life is a continual

:17:58. > :18:05.battle to survive between meagre wage packets, the decision to take

:18:06. > :18:08.out a loan, introducing further debt, is extremely difficult, and

:18:09. > :18:16.often it is one that they just cannot take. I thank her for giving

:18:17. > :18:21.way. I cannot agree with you more on that point. The Institute for Fiscal

:18:22. > :18:28.Studies have said that the debt of the poorest 40% of students will

:18:29. > :18:32.increase by ?12,500 to ?53,500. I don't know where the members

:18:33. > :18:36.opposite are coming from, but from my point of view, as someone who

:18:37. > :18:39.came from a working-class background, that would have put me

:18:40. > :18:51.off from going to university and will put many thousands of students

:18:52. > :18:53.from going to university. This is not about social mobility, there is

:18:54. > :18:56.no point of social justice here, it is about social cleansing and

:18:57. > :19:00.keeping them out of university, and it is wrong. I agree wholeheartedly

:19:01. > :19:06.with the comments the honourable member has made. I would like to

:19:07. > :19:11.move on at this point to widening access. There has been some success

:19:12. > :19:14.in widening access, that has to be applauded. But there is a real

:19:15. > :19:21.danger that the excellent work that has already been done will be rude

:19:22. > :19:25.to Lee underdone if these grants are scrapped -- brutally underdone. Last

:19:26. > :19:28.week I heard a member from the benches opposite in a different

:19:29. > :19:40.context refer to grants as free money. Let me be quite clear. Grants

:19:41. > :19:48.are not free money. Grants are paid, the grant I received as a student

:19:49. > :19:52.was paid back over 20 years as a physics teacher. The bursary is

:19:53. > :19:59.provided to student nurses are paid back when they provide vital care in

:20:00. > :20:06.our NHS. The grants paid to students across these isles will be paid back

:20:07. > :20:12.when they take their place as educated contributors to our

:20:13. > :20:16.workforce and our nations. In Scotland, education has been a key

:20:17. > :20:18.national priority for over 300 years, with the Scottish Government

:20:19. > :20:28.commitment to our young people clear. The UK Government has to ask

:20:29. > :20:34.itself, does it value education and the benefits to society that

:20:35. > :20:41.education brings? Does it value the skills gained by our young people?

:20:42. > :20:50.Or is this simply another attack on the most former rebel? --

:20:51. > :20:54.vulnerable. I'm going to put a time limit of four minutes onto

:20:55. > :20:58.backbencher contributions, so we might get through everybody. The

:20:59. > :21:03.problem with today's debate is simple, there is no alternative

:21:04. > :21:07.being offered to the bill which has been put before the House. This

:21:08. > :21:11.leads on to the broader point in this conversation, that, for all of

:21:12. > :21:14.the huffing and puffing from the benches opposite, their idea of

:21:15. > :21:18.social mobility is, we will just give lots of money and let lots of

:21:19. > :21:23.people go and worry about paying it back later even though the economy

:21:24. > :21:29.will crash like it did before. Social mobility went down 30% under

:21:30. > :21:33.13 years of Labour Government, given away last week when the Leader of

:21:34. > :21:37.the Opposition thought it was a bad policy for us to improve social

:21:38. > :21:42.housing and get rid of some of the sink estates, the idea that where

:21:43. > :21:46.you are born is where you should stay and we will but after you by

:21:47. > :21:52.printing money. Absolute nonsense. I worked in the higher education

:21:53. > :21:55.sector for many years. I was asked a direct question was about what would

:21:56. > :21:59.happen if we hadn't increased tuition fees? The answer came back,

:22:00. > :22:06.we would limit the number of people who could go. I think that is

:22:07. > :22:09.abysmal. For all of the talking from the honourable member about being

:22:10. > :22:14.from a working-class background, guess what? So were people on this

:22:15. > :22:19.site as well. You try to bring class warfare into an argument which is

:22:20. > :22:23.absolute nonsense. It is not just about the quantity of students, if

:22:24. > :22:27.we hadn't increased the funding it is the quality of the degree each

:22:28. > :22:32.student would receive that would suffer. Entirely. That is why

:22:33. > :22:36.efforts have been made to address the A-level and exam system in this

:22:37. > :22:40.country, because as somebody who was outward facing in my career

:22:41. > :22:44.university it was shocking to go to countries in Europe, like Germany,

:22:45. > :22:48.and be told they were worried about the standard of degrees coming out

:22:49. > :22:53.because of the A-levels which work being done to get to those courses.

:22:54. > :22:57.As a prime example, we had to lay on two extra modules of basic maths in

:22:58. > :23:01.year one of our engineering degrees and had students who simply could

:23:02. > :23:06.not cope with the mathematics being used who had good grades at A-level.

:23:07. > :23:09.This is all part of a bigger picture, this is what the point

:23:10. > :23:15.about the debate today is, it has got to be about opportunities for

:23:16. > :23:19.everybody going to university. It is all very well picking on one area

:23:20. > :23:26.and saying, you shouldn't cut this. Is there any alternative as to how

:23:27. > :23:28.that money should be raised? The consequence is the system becomes

:23:29. > :23:32.unaffordable, and then you limit the numbers of people who can go bust up

:23:33. > :23:36.I went to a comprehensive school, my parents were teachers, I went to

:23:37. > :23:43.university, became a teacher and then an MP. My sister has just

:23:44. > :23:47.qualified at the Royal College of surgeons. No money was spent to send

:23:48. > :23:55.us to school, we got part-time jobs, I took on a job at WH Smith when I

:23:56. > :24:01.was still at school. He is telling the House in clear terms and

:24:02. > :24:08.explicit Conservative story of hard work, opportunity, and meritocracy,

:24:09. > :24:10.in sharp contradiction to the narrative opposite where they were

:24:11. > :24:16.too busy thinking about their reshuffle rather than the order and

:24:17. > :24:22.were too busy trying to plot and plan to keep people in their places

:24:23. > :24:26.while costing the glass ceilings. My honourable friend begs an excellent

:24:27. > :24:29.point. This is what today's debate from the opposition is about, not

:24:30. > :24:34.about the best interests of how to move the country forward. That is

:24:35. > :24:37.white under 13 years of Labour whistled social mobility reduced,

:24:38. > :24:42.they are statistics that you cannot argue with. A 36% increase in the

:24:43. > :24:46.numbers from the poorest background going to university, we raised the

:24:47. > :24:51.level at which you had to pay back a student loan to ?21,000, the fact we

:24:52. > :24:55.have reduced the amount you pay back each day, the fact you don't start

:24:56. > :24:59.paying interest on to leave university, the fact it has got a

:25:00. > :25:08.time limit so it gets written off after a period of time. All of these

:25:09. > :25:10.things are key aspects in making sure we can get people to university

:25:11. > :25:14.and week the best of their potential. Does he agree with me

:25:15. > :25:16.that the way to encourage social mobility and getting more

:25:17. > :25:20.disadvantaged backgrounds into university is firstly to improve

:25:21. > :25:24.their chances in education in the first instance and also encourage

:25:25. > :25:27.and show them what they could achieve and raise their expectations

:25:28. > :25:31.and confidence, not try to frighten them with fears of debt in the

:25:32. > :25:35.future? My honourable friend is right, what we have seen time and

:25:36. > :25:39.again from the party opposite is this argument off, you cannot afford

:25:40. > :25:50.to go to university, you will have huge debts, you from a poor

:25:51. > :25:53.background so don't go because you will be worried about debt, don't

:25:54. > :25:55.increase your life chances. It is an absolute disgrace of modern politics

:25:56. > :25:58.that this is the rubbish paddled from the other side. What we have in

:25:59. > :26:01.this country is an X Factor generation who believe that they can

:26:02. > :26:04.go on to the X Factor and windy X Factor and become rich. Why didn't

:26:05. > :26:07.we have that about the possibilities and academic education and

:26:08. > :26:11.professional careers? Because you had a Labour Government who wanted

:26:12. > :26:14.to keep them where they were. You may be lucky enough to pull yourself

:26:15. > :26:19.out of that situation but if you don't, don't worry, we will keep

:26:20. > :26:24.borrowing money and rack up debts that people working hard campaign

:26:25. > :26:27.for so you can stay where you are. That is not what we believe on this

:26:28. > :26:31.side of the House, we believe of a generation who go out and pull

:26:32. > :26:34.themselves up and get the education they are capable of getting and

:26:35. > :26:39.becoming the people who drive this country. This idea we have already

:26:40. > :26:42.heard today that there is the working class, here is the upper

:26:43. > :26:46.class on this side of the House, it is so outdated and misguided that it

:26:47. > :26:49.is quite frankly laughable, and that has been the problem with this

:26:50. > :26:55.opposition since we came back into the start of this Parliament, it has

:26:56. > :27:00.been laughable. It is laughable that the opposition bring forward a

:27:01. > :27:04.motion today saying, we don't agree with the legislative process that

:27:05. > :27:08.we'd laid down back in 1998, we say that you didn't do anything about

:27:09. > :27:12.this when the time was right, but actually it was laid before the

:27:13. > :27:16.floor of the House. This is purely trying to stop the old class wars

:27:17. > :27:54.because that is all the Labour Party have to fall back on.

:27:55. > :27:58.come up with something that may take the situation in a better direction.

:27:59. > :28:05.Simply saying something like we don't like it is pathetic. It's that

:28:06. > :28:14.that is what we have come to expect from this opposition. I want to

:28:15. > :28:19.begin by thanking my colleagues, the members for a remark for the fact

:28:20. > :28:37.that this debate is taking place. I am very pleased that at least we

:28:38. > :28:42.are able to call the minister to account this afternoon. However, I

:28:43. > :28:45.think it is extremely disappointing that he showed no contrition

:28:46. > :28:49.whatsoever for introducing policies that are likely to limit the

:28:50. > :28:53.aspirations of many young people in this country at the very least make

:28:54. > :28:59.it more difficult for them to achieve it. I will not give way to

:29:00. > :29:03.the honourable gentleman because we are yet we do know that these

:29:04. > :29:10.changes will affect many students. The House of Commons states that in

:29:11. > :29:17.2014-15 395,000 students receive the full grant with 135,000 getting a

:29:18. > :29:24.partial grant. This amounts to over half a million students. Students

:29:25. > :29:29.who go to higher education from families with an annual income of

:29:30. > :29:35.?25,000 or less are eligible for this full grant of ?3387, and

:29:36. > :29:41.students from households with an annual income of between ?25,000 and

:29:42. > :29:48.?42,000 are eligible for the partial grant. However, in the summer budget

:29:49. > :29:58.of July, it was cited that France had become unaffordable. -- grants.

:29:59. > :30:02.Politics is about priorities and this government has simply chosen

:30:03. > :30:10.not to prioritise the needs of students from low income families

:30:11. > :30:14.and astoundingly, to make them a target for cuts. Yet the government

:30:15. > :30:18.has talked endlessly about the importance of hard work and

:30:19. > :30:21.rewarding those who want to achieve and yet now they are undoubtedly

:30:22. > :30:25.making it more difficult for a number of our young people to have

:30:26. > :30:34.the opportunity to access higher education. The move to ?9,000 fees

:30:35. > :30:37.in 2012 has meant that students and graduates now contribute 75% towards

:30:38. > :30:44.the overall cost of their higher education. The replacement of grants

:30:45. > :30:48.by loans will further increase the contribution of individuals compare

:30:49. > :30:51.to the government and yet no conversation has taken place with

:30:52. > :30:57.students, their parents or across the country as to what the balance

:30:58. > :31:05.should be. We do know that these changes will lead to an increase in

:31:06. > :31:11.debt for poorer students. Assuming students take out the maximum loan,

:31:12. > :31:18.the ISS estimate average debt for a three-year course will rise from

:31:19. > :31:23.about ?14,500 under the old system to ?53,000 in the new system. This

:31:24. > :31:29.is not a fear of debt, this is an actual increase in debt and we also

:31:30. > :31:33.know from the impact statement that these changes will impact

:31:34. > :31:38.particularly on women, older students and students from ethnic

:31:39. > :31:42.minorities. Reason alone to stop these policies in their tracks. And

:31:43. > :31:50.I know I stand here as someone who is passionate about supporting

:31:51. > :31:54.students from all backgrounds who -- wants to have access higher

:31:55. > :31:59.education, we know these changes are likely to make it more difficult for

:32:00. > :32:04.them to do so. As a country we need to ensure that our young people have

:32:05. > :32:08.the skills to enable them to compete on a global labour market and I am

:32:09. > :32:20.concerned that these changes will prevent them from doing so. Honour

:32:21. > :32:25.to follow the honourable lady. A speech combining both expertise and

:32:26. > :32:28.passion. I will follow in the footsteps of the Leader of the

:32:29. > :32:33.Opposition, that is his new style of reading out e-mails from

:32:34. > :32:39.constituents. I am aware that students are concerned about this

:32:40. > :32:46.measure. I have had an e-mail from the vice president of the Kent

:32:47. > :32:49.student union, is concerned that if grants are removed, young people

:32:50. > :32:54.from poorer backgrounds will accrue more debt Bruno fought at their own.

:32:55. > :32:58.My answer to him and all others concerned about this, I don't

:32:59. > :33:02.believe this will hinder access to higher education for those from

:33:03. > :33:03.poorer grants. Number one, we are increasing the cash they will have

:33:04. > :34:11.in their to sustain University and deal with

:34:12. > :34:13.the costs they will face on a day-to-day basis. Secondly, because

:34:14. > :34:15.we are increasing the level by which you repay your student debt from

:34:16. > :34:17.?15,000 to ?21,000. If you don't earn that, you don't repay.

:34:18. > :34:19.Statistics show this is not having the impact that members opposite are

:34:20. > :34:22.warning. People... Under this policy, the beneficiary pays. I will

:34:23. > :34:25.give way. We have increased social mobility. It does not echo the words

:34:26. > :34:27.of the Prime Minister. In terms of the principle of the beneficiary

:34:28. > :34:30.pays, it is about those poorer working class people who will not go

:34:31. > :34:32.to university, who chose not to go to university, not getting them to

:34:33. > :34:35.pay for the education of others who will go on to earn significantly

:34:36. > :34:38.more than them. It is a fair principle. That is why this is about

:34:39. > :34:44.fairness. The key point I want to make is that it is about the quality

:34:45. > :34:48.of education. What really matters to that student from disadvantaged

:34:49. > :34:52.background is that they achieve an excellent degree and that enables

:34:53. > :34:56.them to earn a good salary and get on in life. That is the most

:34:57. > :35:00.important thing. If universities are well funded, students will have more

:35:01. > :35:04.chance of a quality degree but I'll so believe profoundly that when

:35:05. > :35:07.people pay for something, when they contribute, they taken more

:35:08. > :35:12.seriously and therefore they get more of it. The SNP are laughing and

:35:13. > :35:19.it is delighting to seize their many of them here because there was only

:35:20. > :35:22.two or three of or three of them hate yesterday and I was quite

:35:23. > :35:30.surprised. In my experience, before it came to the house, we were a

:35:31. > :35:32.mortgage broker and we were fortunate to have an exclusive

:35:33. > :35:39.arrangement with Britannia that the Society for graduates. -- building

:35:40. > :35:46.society. It never fails to astonish me, having seen the jury thousands

:35:47. > :35:50.of applications, that the more debt those graduates had, the higher

:35:51. > :35:53.their earnings were. Often because they took professional studies. The

:35:54. > :35:57.number of people who have professional studies loaned from

:35:58. > :36:01.banks who have gone on to study law, they have the highest earnings. Of

:36:02. > :36:06.course we don't want people to have ridiculously high debt, and that is

:36:07. > :36:10.why they would be cancelled after 30 years if not repaid. But I think we

:36:11. > :36:17.have to get our heads around the key point here, the quality of education

:36:18. > :36:24.is what really matters. Does he agree that by extending the system

:36:25. > :36:30.of finance so that more part-time students and more postgraduate

:36:31. > :36:33.students can receive funding, it is actually helping social mobility and

:36:34. > :36:37.greater opportunities for people who otherwise wouldn't be able to have

:36:38. > :36:42.access to higher education and postgraduate education? This is an

:36:43. > :36:45.excellent point because I was good to mention the fact that the

:36:46. > :36:48.minister is actually bringing forward for the first time masters

:36:49. > :36:54.loans and I think that is important. In my experience I found those who

:36:55. > :37:00.had borrowed... Birds Eye watering sums to do those courses where the

:37:01. > :37:04.biggest sums were payable, they often had very high earnings indeed

:37:05. > :37:14.and that is the reality of life and it is about the quality degree you

:37:15. > :37:18.get. I will wrap up because I know lots of honourable members want to

:37:19. > :37:22.get in. I will touch on a broader economic issue. When we talk about

:37:23. > :37:27.graduates, we know that the number of graduate jobs has just increased

:37:28. > :37:31.by 7.5%. The most important contribution the government can make

:37:32. > :37:34.to higher education is to have a strong economy offering lots of

:37:35. > :37:38.opportunities for our graduates to ensure they can and the salaries and

:37:39. > :37:53.therefore repay the cost of education that they have benefit

:37:54. > :37:55.from. The Minister relies on increase in participation to

:37:56. > :37:59.universities and record numbers of students going to universities will

:38:00. > :38:02.stop I did its job once and I remember standing at the dispatch

:38:03. > :38:08.box and say the very same thing that the debate we are having today is

:38:09. > :38:12.not really about that, it is not about the widening participation,

:38:13. > :38:16.about numbers of students. It is about the cohort of students whose

:38:17. > :38:23.parents are from poor or working-class backgrounds, they are

:38:24. > :38:27.dinner ladies, they run minicabs, they are security guards, they are

:38:28. > :38:32.receptionists, they are people on Syria our contracts, people who are

:38:33. > :38:37.unemployed. It is about their children who aspire to go to

:38:38. > :38:44.universities. -- zero our contracts. That is why it is quite out raises

:38:45. > :38:49.that other former minister with responsibilities that universities I

:38:50. > :38:54.am just allowed four minutes in this debate. Back in 2009 when we made

:38:55. > :38:58.changes on maintenance grants, we were able to actually increase the

:38:59. > :39:04.amount we were given to students earning less than 25 thousand pounds

:39:05. > :39:19.and increase the amount of partial grants for students whose parents

:39:20. > :39:23.had incomes up Dutchman. -- it is an outrage, frankly, that this kind of

:39:24. > :39:27.scrutiny has been dragged out of the minister because of the work of the

:39:28. > :39:31.NUS and the work of the front bench of the Labour Party. It should have

:39:32. > :39:36.been something that was a debating point. I have to say to the minister

:39:37. > :39:42.it is not about widening participation, it is about fair

:39:43. > :39:47.access. There has been a 50% increase in the amount of students

:39:48. > :39:52.choosing to stay at home rather than go to universities that they would

:39:53. > :39:58.love to go to. What does that really mean? Usually you stay at home at

:39:59. > :40:01.the nearest university to you in deprived constituencies. It is

:40:02. > :40:04.likely that university is a modern university even though you may have

:40:05. > :40:10.got those three aims to become want to become and do medicine at a more

:40:11. > :40:17.teaching, research intensive university. That is what the debate

:40:18. > :40:20.is about and that is why his own impact assessment says there will be

:40:21. > :40:26.a disproportionate effect on students from the M E background. I

:40:27. > :40:30.say to the Minister, does that matter? He can't in one breath come

:40:31. > :40:34.to the house and rightly say the statements he has said about

:40:35. > :40:42.unconscious bias and then in the other hand change the context of

:40:43. > :40:45.those students from poorer backgrounds and this proportionate

:40:46. > :40:51.league affect them. For mature students this will have a great

:40:52. > :40:56.impact. That is why I'm surprised they are moving forward with the

:40:57. > :41:02.changes in the they are. We have a basis of consensus across the house,

:41:03. > :41:04.we did a few years ago, that the state, universities and the student

:41:05. > :41:08.make a contribution to their education. But this settlement

:41:09. > :41:14.effectively is doing is withdrawing the state even further than after

:41:15. > :41:20.the 2010 Parliament and actually landing the debt entirely on the

:41:21. > :41:27.student and when he says there was no alternative, the alternative is

:41:28. > :41:31.actually to go to the universities themselves who per student, the

:41:32. > :41:40.funding has gone from ?22,000 to ?28,000. There was funding

:41:41. > :41:45.available, despite the fact on his figures, 45% of those students will

:41:46. > :41:49.not be able to repay their loans. It will have a disproportionate effect

:41:50. > :41:52.on poorer students. Despite the fact the Minister is not a bad guy, this

:41:53. > :42:10.is a mistake you will regret. I welcome the fact this debate is

:42:11. > :42:14.being held in this chamber. I would also like to refer to my own

:42:15. > :42:19.situation because I feel most strongly that it is right for us on

:42:20. > :42:23.the side of the bench to dispel the myth coming from the opposition side

:42:24. > :42:28.that students in a situation similar to me, to my background will not be

:42:29. > :42:31.able to go to university by these changes and I say that someone who

:42:32. > :42:38.has taken out loans myself in to get me through my fashion or training.

:42:39. > :42:44.By way of further illustration I failed my 12 plus when I was at

:42:45. > :42:48.school. I was advised by my teachers not to waste my time doing A-levels

:42:49. > :42:52.but I'm glad I ignored that advice. I went off to sixth form College and

:42:53. > :42:57.was fortunate enough to study at university. Whereas my parents

:42:58. > :43:03.background was by no means one where money was there available to us, I