25/01/2016

:00:00. > :00:00.Regrettably they are having to turn away people because of the limited

:00:00. > :00:00.capacity. Does the Minister field of the department is doing enotgh to

:00:00. > :00:09.look after children with spdcial complex and educational needs and

:00:10. > :00:16.does she feel that there is adequate provision for such vulnerable

:00:17. > :00:20.children across the country? I actually visited the school in the

:00:21. > :00:24.course of the last year and I found it was truly exceptional st`ffed by

:00:25. > :00:31.wonderfully head teachers and members of staff. We are investing

:00:32. > :00:34.in all schools, both those with special education needs and of

:00:35. > :00:37.course both in the mainstre`m. I think there's more we can do to

:00:38. > :00:43.prepare teachers for teaching special educational needs and also

:00:44. > :00:47.of course in terms of funding, we aren't having a dedicated c`pitols

:00:48. > :00:49.funding stream for schools with people for educational needs and

:00:50. > :00:55.encourage others to do so. people for educational needs and

:00:56. > :00:59.encourage others to do Therd's a report saying they have no problem

:01:00. > :01:03.supporting people who are kden to learn with hectic home lives. What

:01:04. > :01:12.can the government do so th`t they end up being a court Nader of a

:01:13. > :01:16.special services operation. Mr Speaker, my honourable friend raises

:01:17. > :01:19.an important question which many schools raise around having ensured

:01:20. > :01:25.that every child is in the best possible place at home so they can

:01:26. > :01:33.learn at school. He will note that the Troubled Families progr`mme

:01:34. > :01:35.which turned 99% of the famhlies was extremely successful in supporting

:01:36. > :01:38.schools with those difficult families. We now have a mord

:01:39. > :01:42.ambitious programme over thd next five years of 400,000 more families,

:01:43. > :01:45.including the underbelly, to make sure they get support they need so

:01:46. > :01:53.that children to go to school to learn and make a future for

:01:54. > :01:58.themselves. Becoming a parent or kinship care means a life for the

:01:59. > :02:01.mike lifelong commitment to a child. And yet services do not havd the

:02:02. > :02:04.obligation to parents. Can the Minister urgently review thd

:02:05. > :02:13.long-time support of those parents and kinship carers for this vital

:02:14. > :02:16.provision? She will note th`t through the work we have done in the

:02:17. > :02:22.last Parliament, the support for kinship carers for family and

:02:23. > :02:25.friends guidance has set up very clearly what the expectations are on

:02:26. > :02:30.local authorities. We also looked for the review of special g`rden,

:02:31. > :02:33.guardianship orders the support that is needed post placement for

:02:34. > :02:37.children who find themselves in that type of arrangement. Part of our

:02:38. > :02:42.overall strategy that we have set out last week on children's social

:02:43. > :02:45.care shows the ambition we have to make sure every child get stpport

:02:46. > :02:49.they need, whatever the typd of long-term placement that happens to

:02:50. > :02:57.be. I would like to get mord people in, so shorter answers. According to

:02:58. > :03:02.the analysis, Kingston... Would my right honourable friend join me in

:03:03. > :03:06.paying tribute to teachers `nd people acting sent an excellent as

:03:07. > :03:09.House how the learning from the best schools is going to be rolldd out

:03:10. > :03:13.across the country so that schools have somewhere to go. Can I think my

:03:14. > :03:20.honourable friend very much, someone who is educated in Kingston, can I

:03:21. > :03:24.pay tribute to all of the schools and they were much better than in my

:03:25. > :03:28.day. The teachers and operations there. He is talking about

:03:29. > :03:31.excellence, positivity and learning, which is better than the constant

:03:32. > :03:36.negativity we are hearing from the other side of the House. Is the

:03:37. > :03:42.Secretary of State as alarmdd as I am that Hoppe Worthington w`s not

:03:43. > :03:47.previously known... Despite the fact that her mother had previously had a

:03:48. > :03:50.child taken into care and hdr father had been investigated on two

:03:51. > :03:58.separate occasions due to child sexual abuse. Can I picture me to

:03:59. > :04:02.the work that he has done as the local member of Parliament speaking

:04:03. > :04:09.up on this case, yes I am alarmed and as I have said earlier, Cumbria

:04:10. > :04:12.is all for intervention for my department, supported by

:04:13. > :04:17.interventions of the Mike advisor, as was still found to be in`dequate,

:04:18. > :04:20.and I will review progress `nd March this year as part of the broader

:04:21. > :04:25.package of reforms we need to introduce the tackle failing Child

:04:26. > :04:31.services which only let down the most runnable. East Sussex County

:04:32. > :04:34.Council offers award-winning child services but there's more to learn.

:04:35. > :04:39.What part of the government does the child die government have -, what

:04:40. > :04:43.part of the government have to reform this. I think my honourable

:04:44. > :04:47.friend. She raises an important point that the Minister has Arty

:04:48. > :04:51.touched upon, we are looking at raising the qualifications of social

:04:52. > :04:54.workers, getting the brightdst and best into the progression. Laking

:04:55. > :05:01.sure they are stronger for leadership to benefit those in need,

:05:02. > :05:06.and also to regulate the tr`ining of children social workers. So short is

:05:07. > :05:09.a hugely vital and underappreciated service and we ought to makd sure

:05:10. > :05:19.that you get exactly the sale intention, attention as our school

:05:20. > :05:23.teachers. Many churches, yotth groups, and youth organizathons are

:05:24. > :05:28.concerned that they may be subject to offset regulation as a rdsult of

:05:29. > :05:33.nationwide regulation schemd. The head of them said they would not.

:05:34. > :05:40.Can the Minister tell us wh`t is right? Thank you for your qtestion

:05:41. > :05:44.and it is right that we askdd the question about registration of out

:05:45. > :05:48.of school settings and therdfore the inspection but the prime minister

:05:49. > :05:50.and I are clear that this is not to apply to organizations like Sunday

:05:51. > :05:58.schools, I am a Sunday school teacher myself will stop of all

:05:59. > :06:01.Bible camps, but you should look at the statement issued by the head of

:06:02. > :06:04.office that after his recent appearance where he clarifidd that

:06:05. > :06:11.actually he was not correct and we are right in saying Sunday schools

:06:12. > :06:16.and others will be exempt. Order. Just before we come to the trgent

:06:17. > :06:22.questions, I must inform thd House that the honourable gentlem`n, the

:06:23. > :06:25.member from Baltimore has written to me and given notice to his wish to

:06:26. > :06:33.resign from the chair of thd environmental committee. I therefore

:06:34. > :06:37.declare the chair vacant. I know the House will wish to join me hn

:06:38. > :06:44.expressing its collective appreciation. Hear, hear! Of the

:06:45. > :06:47.commitment and passion board that committee which the honourable

:06:48. > :06:54.gentleman is exhibiting since he took up the chair shortly after the

:06:55. > :06:57.general election. The following will be the arrangements for electing a

:06:58. > :07:06.new chair of the environmental audit committee. This should be stbmitted

:07:07. > :07:11.in the lower table office. Hf members would have the courtesy to

:07:12. > :07:16.listen, we would appreciate it. By 5pm on Monday the 8th of February.

:07:17. > :07:20.Calling the House's decision of the third June 2015, only Labour members

:07:21. > :07:23.may be cabinets in this election. If there is more than one cabinet, the

:07:24. > :07:28.ballot would take place on Wednesday the 10th of February from 10am to

:07:29. > :07:32.1:30pm in committee room 16. Briefing mixed with more details

:07:33. > :07:38.about the election will be `vailable to members and published on the

:07:39. > :07:46.intranet. Urgent question, Lr John McDonald. Tap the Chancellor to make

:07:47. > :07:59.a statement on the second rdached Beit HMRC and cool. Thank you Mr

:08:00. > :08:02.Speaker. I am proud of the work this government has done to make our tax

:08:03. > :08:07.system internationally compdtitive. But also to make sure that those

:08:08. > :08:13.taxes are paid. Time and ag`in we have taken the domestic league and

:08:14. > :08:16.international lead when he gets to companies that paid their f`ir share

:08:17. > :08:24.of tax. This is the governmdnt who are working through the G20 and OECD

:08:25. > :08:26.lead on the profit shifting hats, making the international tax rules

:08:27. > :08:34.that for the 21st century, this is the government to introduced a

:08:35. > :08:39.divergent rapid tax to... So that profits from UK activities `re taxed

:08:40. > :08:43.in the UK. This is the government that has invested heavily in HMRC to

:08:44. > :08:50.strengthen their complex activity, this has allowed HMRC to secure ?100

:08:51. > :08:54.billion in additional complhance yield over the last Parliamdnt

:08:55. > :09:00.including more than ?38 billion from big businesses. We have competitive

:09:01. > :09:03.taxes, that is why we have cut our rate of corporation tax ratd as the

:09:04. > :09:09.lowest in the G7. We are also making sure those taxes are paid, reforming

:09:10. > :09:14.the international tax rules, introducing a divergent profits tax,

:09:15. > :09:22.investing in HMRC's activitx, action taken by this government has sorely

:09:23. > :09:26.lacked from 13 years of labour role. -- rule. The statement made by

:09:27. > :09:29.Google last week is solid evidence that companies are changing their

:09:30. > :09:33.models and reviewing their structures. Because we have

:09:34. > :09:40.strengthened the rules. The statement comes at the conclusion of

:09:41. > :09:43.a lengthy inquired, inquiry by HMRC and the companies paying

:09:44. > :09:47.collectively by HMRC enforcd any law, not politicians who ard quite

:09:48. > :09:52.rightly not engaged in or informed of particular cases. I am unable to

:09:53. > :09:55.go into details of the conclusion of the inquiry beyond those made public

:09:56. > :10:03.by the end of last week. But I would point out that the national order

:10:04. > :10:07.office examined the HMRC process in 2012 and examine specific

:10:08. > :10:13.settlements. In all cases, `nd in an AL concluded that the HMRC obtained

:10:14. > :10:17.a reasonable settlement. It also recommended things for the

:10:18. > :10:24.process... Recommendations that have been implemented. Mr Speaker, it

:10:25. > :10:29.might be helpful to the House if I reiterate what the law is and how a

:10:30. > :10:34.corporation tax rate works, both in the United Kingdom and around the

:10:35. > :10:38.world. The first thing to note is that corporation tax is charged on

:10:39. > :10:43.profits, not on turnover. Epually important, corporation tax hs not

:10:44. > :10:46.calculated on the basis of profits attributed to sales in the Tnited

:10:47. > :10:52.Kingdom, but to economic activity and assets like they did in the

:10:53. > :11:00.United Kingdom. To illustrate my point, imagine the UK company, let's

:11:01. > :11:03.say a car manufacturer for hnstance, manufactures its vehicles in the

:11:04. > :11:08.United Kingdom but half of hts profits come from sales in the

:11:09. > :11:12.United States. The law as it stands and the UK and elsewhere wotld mean

:11:13. > :11:15.that the profits will be taxing United Kingdom and pleasant

:11:16. > :11:22.activity, not the United St`tes the place of sales. Ever since 2010 we

:11:23. > :11:27.have been engaged in reformhng the tax system, both domestically and

:11:28. > :11:31.internationally. Government action is leveling the playing field on

:11:32. > :11:36.this, giving why not worldwhde taxers more tools to tackle

:11:37. > :11:39.aggressive tax planning and help us better outlined the location of tax

:11:40. > :11:44.profits with the location of economic activity. We are

:11:45. > :11:49.incentivizing businesses to do the right thing and come to the table

:11:50. > :11:52.early. Last week's announcelent represents an important restlt of

:11:53. > :11:57.these actions. I can assure honourable members that we will

:11:58. > :12:03.continue to tackle the tax risks posed by the national companies over

:12:04. > :12:09.the coming years, giving each one more money to fund the publhc

:12:10. > :12:15.services we all rely on. I would like to thank the Minister for his

:12:16. > :12:20.statement. However, many will feel it is a disrespect to this house

:12:21. > :12:24.that the Chancellor confirmdd that this deal with a tweaked ovdr the

:12:25. > :12:28.weekend, but refuses to comd here today personally to make a

:12:29. > :12:35.statement. I would like to pay tribute however to the formdr chairs

:12:36. > :12:41.of the committee, the right honourable member from Hackney South

:12:42. > :12:45.as well as the campaigners for tax Justice who has forced this issue

:12:46. > :12:50.onto the agenda. The Chancellor has managed to create an unlikely

:12:51. > :12:53.alliance between myself, thd Sun newspaper, the Mayor of London, and

:12:54. > :13:00.according to reports, even number ten this morning. All of us think

:13:01. > :13:06.this deal is not the major success that the Chancellor claimed over the

:13:07. > :13:09.weekend. The statement offered today left a number of questions

:13:10. > :13:14.unanswered which I turn to now. Does in the Minister agree with le that

:13:15. > :13:18.it is important in our tax system that everybody is treated epually

:13:19. > :13:22.and fairly, whether they have been large multi-billion corporations or

:13:23. > :13:26.small businesses. In that rdspect, independent experts have suggested

:13:27. > :13:32.that the effective tax rate faced by Google is now around 3%, despite

:13:33. > :13:38.estimated profit of ?1 billhon in the year 2014 alone. Can thd

:13:39. > :13:44.Minister confirm whether thhs is the effect of tax rate faced by Google

:13:45. > :13:47.over the last ten years? In the interest of openness and

:13:48. > :13:54.transparency, will he now ptblished details of the deal and how it was

:13:55. > :13:58.reached? Can the Minister confirm also that Google is not changing the

:13:59. > :14:02.company structures which en`bled this avoidance to take placd over

:14:03. > :14:09.the last decade? Is the govdrnment not concerned that this agrdement

:14:10. > :14:15.creates a precedent for futtre deals with large technology corporations

:14:16. > :14:18.such as Facebook and Amazon? Can the Minister assure us that this deal

:14:19. > :14:25.does not undermine internathonal cooperation on tax avoidancd such as

:14:26. > :14:31.the OE CD with profit-sharing scheme which the Chancellor once stpported.

:14:32. > :14:39.Can I also asked him one more time, can he now holds the progralme of

:14:40. > :14:41.staffing cuts at HMRC which is undermining morale and removing from

:14:42. > :14:46.us the very staff that the collective experience and expertise

:14:47. > :14:49.for collecting these taxes? Finally, could the Minister address some

:14:50. > :14:56.confusion which seems to have arisen. Does he think the ddal with

:14:57. > :14:59.a major success. The prime minister's office this mornhng says

:15:00. > :15:08.it is only a step forward, the Mayor for London has described it as

:15:09. > :15:13.derisory. Mr Speaker, I welcome the progress that this government has

:15:14. > :15:16.made over the last six years in ensuring that large companids paid

:15:17. > :15:22.more tax than they did before. In a period of time where we havd been

:15:23. > :15:30.cutting the rate of corporation tax, corporation tax of one takes out of

:15:31. > :15:33.law Sea oil has remained pohgnant. One of the reasons for that is that

:15:34. > :15:38.we have been more effective than ever in collecting tax from large

:15:39. > :15:42.companies. HMRC's operation`l capacity has been strengthened in

:15:43. > :15:52.this area and by the way, HLRC staff numbers are going up this ydar, not

:15:53. > :15:55.down. In terms of the 3% figure which the shadow Chancellor

:15:56. > :15:59.mentioned, that is the very reason why I drew attention to the way that

:16:00. > :16:07.corporation tax is worked ott. It is not on the basis of the profits rate

:16:08. > :16:11.sales in a particular country, it is on the basis of economic activity

:16:12. > :16:16.and assets held in a countrx and there are severe dangers were we to

:16:17. > :16:21.move in the direction of it being based on profits relating to sales.

:16:22. > :16:26.And in terms of that, he is right. Every taxpayer should be trdated

:16:27. > :16:32.fairly and every taxpayer h`s to pay the rate determined by the law,

:16:33. > :16:36.there is no lower special r`te for Google or any other taxpayer in this

:16:37. > :16:40.country. Mr Speaker, we are collecting more tax, this is

:16:41. > :16:47.evidence of the steps that we have taken both in the bench process and

:16:48. > :16:50.the other two forced companhes to change their behaviour. That is

:16:51. > :16:54.something that should be welcomed around the House. I told thd House

:16:55. > :16:57.will would be a real threat to collecting tax revenue from big

:16:58. > :17:04.businesses, the anti-business policies which would be pursued by

:17:05. > :17:08.the party opposite. Will thd Treasury committee agree in terms of

:17:09. > :17:12.reference for an inquiry into, among other things, problems with tech,

:17:13. > :17:17.corporate tax rates. Does the Minister agree that Google lay be a

:17:18. > :17:23.symptom but it is probably not because of these problems and that

:17:24. > :17:27.those with a mix epoxy in the tax system, rendered more probldmatic by

:17:28. > :17:34.the globalisation of things and fundamental reform, corporate taxis

:17:35. > :17:37.need to be considered as well. I think my friend raises an ilportant

:17:38. > :17:42.point which is that our international tax system is largely

:17:43. > :17:46.based on the set up of the 0920s and the world has moved on, the way in

:17:47. > :17:51.multinational companies operate has changed very significantly. That is

:17:52. > :17:58.why some years ago, led by ly right honourable friend the Prime Minister

:17:59. > :18:03.and the Chancellor we encouraged the OECD to establish the project and

:18:04. > :18:08.what we're seeing is the first signs of evidence that that is working.

:18:09. > :18:14.The companies are changing their behaviour and tax system is becoming

:18:15. > :18:21.better suited to the modern world. The diverted profit taxes at 25

:18:22. > :18:26.came into effect last April. Can we have the Minister's assurance that

:18:27. > :18:29.this deal does not cover anx of the period when the diverted profits tax

:18:30. > :18:36.should have applied. Secondly, in terms of disclosed... The rtles are

:18:37. > :18:41.quite clear. Tax should be paid 100%, plus interest, plus a 5%

:18:42. > :18:46.penalty. Can we have the Minister's assurance that that was rightly not

:18:47. > :18:52.to provide the light applied in this case. Given the difficulty of the

:18:53. > :18:59.deal of Starbucks and much like the deal that the commission insisted

:19:00. > :19:06.between 20 and 30 million etros extra, should this deal not be put

:19:07. > :19:12.to a committee to ensure thdy apply to like comply with state rtles The

:19:13. > :19:20.United Kingdom does not eng`ge in special deals with any taxp`yer

:19:21. > :19:27.When accusations have been lade in the past to that affect, as Andrew

:19:28. > :19:33.Parker, the high Jordan do not judge investigated those claims and

:19:34. > :19:37.concluded that in every casd he investigated, the settlement was

:19:38. > :19:44.reasonable and the overall dffect of the arrangements were that they were

:19:45. > :19:48.good. It is the case, I cannot comment on the individual m`tter

:19:49. > :19:51.beyond what is in the public domain, for the very reasons I set out

:19:52. > :19:56.afterwards, I believe there is an important principle here th`t tax

:19:57. > :20:02.should be collected on the basis of the law, there should be a

:20:03. > :20:06.department that is independdnt from the Minister that is able to make

:20:07. > :20:10.the assessment of what the right tax is due under the law without

:20:11. > :20:13.politicians interfering with those matters. I think that is solething

:20:14. > :20:19.that has the support of all the House. Can my right honourable

:20:20. > :20:25.friend assure me that there'll be some investigation in to Hal HMRC

:20:26. > :20:30.allow this to go on for such a long time. Could lessons be learned given

:20:31. > :20:33.the last government was starting this and it has taken this

:20:34. > :20:43.government to tackle it and put it to book. It is in the public domain

:20:44. > :20:50.that HMRC launched an inquiry into the tax affairs of Google in 20 9.

:20:51. > :20:55.This is a complex matter, btt I am pleased that the inquiry has reached

:20:56. > :21:02.a conclusion. It would be f`ir to say that the progress in terms of

:21:03. > :21:06.bringing in divergent profits tax and the reforms involved in the

:21:07. > :21:10.profit shifting project are such that it does appear to be a shift in

:21:11. > :21:17.the behaviour of a number of companies which is to be welcomed. I

:21:18. > :21:21.am sure my other colleagues on the committee are looking for to hearing

:21:22. > :21:25.from Google a HMRC about thhs deal but the inquiry into the tax

:21:26. > :21:29.situation that many of thesd companies seem to be applying to

:21:30. > :21:33.what they should be paying ` fair way to the UK public purse was

:21:34. > :21:37.started under labour and yes it continued over the last fivd years

:21:38. > :21:40.but last year, in the budget for the general election, the Chancdllor

:21:41. > :21:44.said we will not tolerate that the message go out that there whll be an

:21:45. > :21:51.end to this sort of play. Ghven that there was ?24 billion of UK revenue

:21:52. > :21:57.over this period, people have sent experts have said that the tax of ?2

:21:58. > :22:04.billion, does 130 million rdally meet the test of low tolerance? I do

:22:05. > :22:09.want to address this point. Engage seriously with the House in terms of

:22:10. > :22:13.the calculations we have sedn in the press suggesting that some of these

:22:14. > :22:20.very large numbers, those are calculations that are based as far

:22:21. > :22:23.as I can see on looking at the profits attributed to the s`les in

:22:24. > :22:29.the United Kingdom and therd was a very important distinction which the

:22:30. > :22:33.profits attributed to sales versus Rockets attributed to econolic

:22:34. > :22:37.activity and assets. Let me make this point, the United Kingdom is a

:22:38. > :22:43.country which is very creathve, we have a strong scientific base. As a

:22:44. > :22:48.country, there is a lot of dconomic activity that goes on here that is

:22:49. > :22:54.involved in exporting goods and services and the profit frol those

:22:55. > :22:58.exports I believe should be taxed in the United Kingdom with the economic

:22:59. > :23:03.activity occurs, not in the countries where these sales may

:23:04. > :23:13.occur. If we accept that prhnciple, it does rather discredit thd claims

:23:14. > :23:18.of the 3% tax rate. While wd fully appreciate the international rules

:23:19. > :23:21.and their complexity, there can be variations on how it can be

:23:22. > :23:25.interpreted, can my honourable friend reassure the House one where

:23:26. > :23:29.are the other whether Googld have been any laws in place betwden 005

:23:30. > :23:37.and 2011 or whether this was just an outcome of the negotiations? Again I

:23:38. > :23:40.make the point that I cannot comment in large part because I am not privy

:23:41. > :23:47.to information that is not hn the public domain. I cannot comlent on

:23:48. > :23:51.that, what I can say is that there is an inquiry that has been in place

:23:52. > :23:56.for some years, that inquirx has now reached a conclusion. The

:23:57. > :24:01.consequences as Google have stated as the conclusion of the inpuiry is

:24:02. > :24:05.that they are ensuring ?130 million is being paid. For one have also

:24:06. > :24:09.made clear that they have m`de changes in the way their structures

:24:10. > :24:14.of their arrangements have been made and that will have comes with us for

:24:15. > :24:20.future tax liability. Y on the one hand should Italy put in a claim for

:24:21. > :24:27.?1 billion from Google and Britain is prepared to settle for a paltry

:24:28. > :24:33.130 million? It is not very good for David Cameron is it? There hs a

:24:34. > :24:38.difference between putting hn a claim and determining that the final

:24:39. > :24:45.result under the law of the land. That is what HMRC have done. I do

:24:46. > :24:53.not think anyone should underestimate the complex n`ture of

:24:54. > :24:56.trying to tax the global corporations like this. I think the

:24:57. > :25:02.speculation in terms of the numbers that have been batted around. In

:25:03. > :25:04.view of the government's desire to get an international arrangdment in

:25:05. > :25:07.place, could the Minister tdll us today whether he believes this deal

:25:08. > :25:14.does set some sort of precedent or whether it is what a one-off

:25:15. > :25:20.arrangement? The important point to note is the individual tax offence

:25:21. > :25:25.depend upon the application of the facts in the case. It is depending

:25:26. > :25:29.on the point that I've been making a number of times on the economic

:25:30. > :25:33.activity and assets that ard held in the UK or indeed other jurisdictions

:25:34. > :25:42.do not jurisdictions. I think this signifies that -- jurisdicthons

:25:43. > :25:48.This is something that I certainly welcome a welcome alignment between

:25:49. > :25:52.tax and economic activity. That is what the bench process is ddsigned

:25:53. > :25:55.to achieve, that is what thd government has been advocathng for

:25:56. > :26:02.some years now and I do belheve we are making progress. Thank xou Mr

:26:03. > :26:07.Speaker, the reality is that the practice of companies organhsing

:26:08. > :26:10.their business over multipld jurisdictions to minimise their tax

:26:11. > :26:15.liability is not new. Even hf the divergent profits tax were to apply,

:26:16. > :26:18.it would barely make a dent on Google's real tax liability. Given

:26:19. > :26:22.this week that all of our constituents will be fighting their

:26:23. > :26:25.tax returns and do not have the luxury of negotiating their own

:26:26. > :26:28.deals, what sort of message does the translate think he is sending to

:26:29. > :26:33.those individuals and busindsses by saying that paltry sum of money from

:26:34. > :26:42.Google could possibly be considered as he says a major success. All

:26:43. > :26:49.businesses have to pay tax tnder the law. It is under this government

:26:50. > :26:52.that we have seen the divergent profits tax brought in, it hs under

:26:53. > :26:57.this government that we are saying the bench process changing the

:26:58. > :27:04.behaviour of companies. We did not see any of this from the last labour

:27:05. > :27:08.government. And all we end tp with is unsubstantiated claims about our

:27:09. > :27:14.deals, insulting HMRC staff who have worked for years to ensure that

:27:15. > :27:20.Google and other companies pay the taxpayer do under the law. Will the

:27:21. > :27:23.Minister agree with me that in the mad world of corporation tax on

:27:24. > :27:27.international companies that the sum of money as at once derisorx,

:27:28. > :27:31.substantial, lawful, and colpletely un-acceptable for the public and

:27:32. > :27:38.would he agree with me that it is time for a complete overhaul of the

:27:39. > :27:44.corporate taxes in? -- systdm. The point I would make is that this is a

:27:45. > :27:49.highly complex area, but thdre is a need for international coopdration

:27:50. > :27:52.in this area which is why wd instigated the OECD looking at this

:27:53. > :27:56.as a part of the process and that process is combo forward with a

:27:57. > :28:00.number of recommendations for legislation for two of thosd

:28:01. > :28:06.recommendations, there is a third that we are looking at and

:28:07. > :28:09.consulting upon in terms of interest deductibility. It is right that we

:28:10. > :28:13.bring in the international tax system up-to-date to reflect the way

:28:14. > :28:20.that multinational companies are working. This has been led for too

:28:21. > :28:25.long, we are taking action. Does he recognise the people's anger and

:28:26. > :28:29.even more justifiable given that Google is given a free ride on

:28:30. > :28:33.public infrastructure, not least the ?1.2 billion the government has

:28:34. > :28:36.invested in broadband and could I urged him to make these calculations

:28:37. > :28:44.in the public domain so that people can see how the figures are right

:28:45. > :28:50.that? We will CF the NAL wishes to look at this area but again, can I

:28:51. > :28:54.point to the fact that when previously people have made

:28:55. > :28:56.allegations about particular arrangements, it has turned out that

:28:57. > :29:11.that has not been true. When the former liturgy secretary to

:29:12. > :29:15.the secretary left a note stating I'm afraid there is no monex, with

:29:16. > :29:19.my friend agreed with me th`t this was evidence that not only did the

:29:20. > :29:28.former Labour governments spend too much of our money, but they did not

:29:29. > :29:33.collect appropriate taxes? H think he puts it. It is a pity th`t

:29:34. > :29:45.previous governments have not taken this as fiercely as we have. --

:29:46. > :29:49.seriously. They given massive task is to big-city banks, in relation to

:29:50. > :29:57.profits brought in over prop. Get a massive tax cuts to hedge ftnds --

:29:58. > :30:01.abroad. City banks, hedge ftnds globalised corporation, the three

:30:02. > :30:10.bodies that moderate conservative parties exist to serve. Can I ask

:30:11. > :30:15.the Minister why should my constituents help the corporations?

:30:16. > :30:19.The facts are in the last Parliament, we increase taxds on

:30:20. > :30:27.banks. The increase taxes on hedge funds also. I am afraid that his

:30:28. > :30:29.constituents to be asking why their member of Parliament did not ask a

:30:30. > :30:47.better question. Very unseemly. But here these

:30:48. > :30:50.important exchanges. People begun this place might be taking `n

:30:51. > :30:58.interest and I think they would like a decorative atmosphere. In the

:30:59. > :31:05.Secretariat report... Published a short time ago which I demise

:31:06. > :31:09.anti-tax avoidance measures the last Coalition Government put into place,

:31:10. > :31:16.including the general anti-`voidance provision, the bank bowl -- code of

:31:17. > :31:25.conduct, which wait an additional four Republican pounds betwden 011

:31:26. > :31:33.and 2020 -- corporate accounts. -- ?4 billion.

:31:34. > :31:38.Like many on the side, small businesses in my constituency

:31:39. > :31:42.happened point doing up at ly surgery to complain about the

:31:43. > :31:48.sweetheart deals that big btsinesses seem to be able to get, when they

:31:49. > :31:52.can't get access to from HMRC. Have printed to ask him to beat le to

:31:53. > :31:59.talk about small businesses hastily set no. -- have written. -- meet

:32:00. > :32:11.with me. Can you please meet with me to talk about the impact on small

:32:12. > :32:18.businesses? The position is, and I will.

:32:19. > :32:26.Does the Minister agree that the best way to help HMRC collect more

:32:27. > :32:32.taxes is for this house passed tax laws which are clear, precise, and

:32:33. > :32:41.understandable without the need to refer to tax loads and accotntants?

:32:42. > :32:47.I think my friend has put ott an audible objective. We do have to

:32:48. > :32:50.recognise that very often, the nature of international bushnesses

:32:51. > :32:55.will be inherently complicated. But we do have to make sure that our

:32:56. > :32:58.legal system and tax law is brought up today to ensure we would like the

:32:59. > :33:04.way that businesses work in the 21st century. -- up-to-date. If `ny of

:33:05. > :33:10.the wonderful thousands of small businesses that the taxes for the

:33:11. > :33:16.beginners, they'll be sitting down with the police. Can he unddrstand

:33:17. > :33:19.the anger amongst taxpayers when the court and a call to HMRC ard not

:33:20. > :33:25.answered and was on that money go into sourcing that out? On customer

:33:26. > :33:32.service, the Honorable membdr makes a very fair point. When thex're not

:33:33. > :33:36.good enough, understandably taxpayers are exasperated bx that

:33:37. > :33:44.and I'm pleased at the moment the service is performing better than in

:33:45. > :33:49.recent years. I would stress to the Honorable member into the house and

:33:50. > :33:59.it is very important that wd have one tax system and fairness applied

:34:00. > :34:03.to every taxpayer. We must `lso recognise that some of the

:34:04. > :34:06.accusations that are made, some of the calculations that accusdd do not

:34:07. > :34:16.reflect the realities of particular companies. It is right that HMRC

:34:17. > :34:17.pursues, even over many years all companies to make sure that the

:34:18. > :34:31.right amount of taxes paid. As a journalist, I had the privilege

:34:32. > :34:34.of breaking the story how mtch tax Google has paid. Without a bind I

:34:35. > :34:39.had to look at the internathonal abridgments that Google makds. And

:34:40. > :34:42.the Minister aware of any country outside of America that has come to

:34:43. > :34:47.a deal as good of America that has come to a deal as good as this one,

:34:48. > :34:58.for Google other than Britahn? And I. That's not as yet, but wd will

:34:59. > :35:03.wait to see future developmdnts At a time of the government is

:35:04. > :35:08.expecting small businesses to do tax returns for times again, th`t's

:35:09. > :35:12.enough to understand that m`ny small businesses are outraged that a firm

:35:13. > :35:16.like the look and get off whth just paying no tax for ten years, then

:35:17. > :35:20.finish up with a paltry bill which includes fines and interest, but at

:35:21. > :35:26.the same time the government refuses to show how that someone was raised.

:35:27. > :35:33.She look to avoid the cynichsm which many taxpayers will have, and that's

:35:34. > :35:37.she has some transparency as to how the figure is raised. Will

:35:38. > :35:45.commission that all businesses pay the tax that is due. There will be a

:35:46. > :35:51.Westminster Hall debate on this and 25 minutes. But when I'll m`king

:35:52. > :35:59.their best upon point I'll be making their it that no harm in for

:36:00. > :36:04.returns. Companies should kdep their digitally -- information digitally.

:36:05. > :36:09.That would printed by them, the Minister will be on time for the

:36:10. > :36:20.debate. -- if we are finishdd by then. We will look forward to that.

:36:21. > :36:28.The public domain that one of the techniques used by Google, Facebook,

:36:29. > :36:32.if the double Irish by which profits in the first instance leads you can

:36:33. > :36:37.go to our lives. Within him or we can do with a opinion partndrs to

:36:38. > :36:46.choose state aid rules on countries like Ireland which undermind our tax

:36:47. > :36:51.base in this way? There is ` need for international cooperation,

:36:52. > :36:56.whether that is that the OECD level, but at the EU level. He will be

:36:57. > :36:58.aware of action that the European Commission has taken in respect to

:36:59. > :37:07.other member states for thex have had concerns about state aid. - one

:37:08. > :37:10.aircraft. He said this deal does not amount to a tax rate for Google for

:37:11. > :37:21.public companies, can he sax what the actual tax rate is? No. The

:37:22. > :37:34.position is as confidentialhty, the point I was making in the course of

:37:35. > :37:42.my remarks was to look at profits from sales of the UK. It is not a

:37:43. > :37:48.way one can calculate. The tax rate is currently 20%. That applhes to

:37:49. > :37:51.everybody, but in terms of the effective tax rate, that depends on

:37:52. > :38:00.the particular circumstances of any business. With the Minister agree

:38:01. > :38:04.that it is worth remembering that this matter has been outstanding,

:38:05. > :38:08.not Pouplin gear or five ye`rs, but sentiment of the last labor

:38:09. > :38:15.government? They fail to do anything about it. It is this governlent has

:38:16. > :38:19.taken effective action to collect the tax receipts, I have to party

:38:20. > :38:26.opposition check their facts. Maybe they can Google it. I am gr`teful to

:38:27. > :38:32.my Honorable friend. He is absolutely right, it is the action

:38:33. > :38:34.that we have been taking th`t has companies are changing their

:38:35. > :38:45.behaviour and we're getting revenue in. This six days' time, is the

:38:46. > :38:51.deadline for submission of help returns. What consideration has the

:38:52. > :39:01.Minister given to the stills -- the stills? -- these deals. There has

:39:02. > :39:07.been a lengthy inquiry by HLRC into the affairs of Google. That inquiry

:39:08. > :39:12.has now come to an end, and reached a conclusion. There is nothhng to

:39:13. > :39:18.suggest that there was anything other than proper enforcement of the

:39:19. > :39:25.law as it stands that has ldd the way to this particular conclusion.

:39:26. > :39:31.The Minister has talked a lot about bringing our taxes, up-to-d`te -

:39:32. > :39:39.taxes on, but we have in our business rate system which hs

:39:40. > :39:43.out-of-date... Cannot urge him to be as is basis as possible so he can

:39:44. > :39:52.close the gap between onlind businesses and the bricks and mortar

:39:53. > :39:54.businesses? The government hs reviewing the business writds a

:39:55. > :40:01.system and will be reporting back on that shortly. At the Chancellor and

:40:02. > :40:08.Prime Minister are concerned, they have made clear we are lookhng to do

:40:09. > :40:11.this on a fiscally neutral weight but we have received many

:40:12. > :40:16.representations on this point. That's a neutral way. Does he not

:40:17. > :40:23.accept that this duel with Google, which most of us believed to be less

:40:24. > :40:26.than 3% corporation tax, it is simply an encouragement to tax

:40:27. > :40:31.avoidance by companies, and if the issue was the amount of economic

:40:32. > :40:35.activity and assess powered by Google in the UK, why has the

:40:36. > :40:42.government not prepared to test that in the courts if necessary, and call

:40:43. > :40:48.their bluff? HMRC have been making an inquiry in this specific case for

:40:49. > :40:53.a number of years. It has not reached the conclusion that it is

:40:54. > :40:57.satisfied with the position that Google has reached, in terms of the

:40:58. > :41:02.additional payment. Based on the fact that I have seen, based on the

:41:03. > :41:08.detail inquiry the work unddrtaken by HMRC over many years. Thd numbers

:41:09. > :41:14.done up on the back of an envelope. That's not numbers done up. Members

:41:15. > :41:17.on both sides of the house will serve the public's angered the

:41:18. > :41:21.Google has been able to get away with paying so little tax for so

:41:22. > :41:25.long. The new office and thd feeling that this deal is unsatisfactory,

:41:26. > :41:29.but with the Minister confirm that the identity that the government

:41:30. > :41:34.have extracted from Google hs precisely why did 30 big potnds more

:41:35. > :41:40.than the previous labor govdrnment ever got? -- 100 ?30 million. The

:41:41. > :41:41.action we have taken which hs enabled HMRC to make this

:41:42. > :41:56.achievement. I agree with the Honorable lember

:41:57. > :42:02.that this will be seen by m`ny small businesses as unfair and not

:42:03. > :42:04.understandable. Surely, part of the problem is a number of membdrs have

:42:05. > :42:12.said that the sheer complexhty of the system. With the governlent and

:42:13. > :42:17.itself to embracing that matter -- will be government. Both also to

:42:18. > :42:23.find ways to simplify tax sxstem. I would make a point where thdre is a

:42:24. > :42:27.company that operates in many jurisdictions, the tax affahrs are

:42:28. > :42:33.going to be more complex. Then if they just existed in one colpany. --

:42:34. > :42:37.country. But I will say is that this government is determined to ensure

:42:38. > :42:44.when the economic activity occurs in the UK, we tax it in the UK.

:42:45. > :42:50.Everybody wants to see business pay its fair share of tax, emothonal

:42:51. > :42:56.welcome the additional 130 big pounds to fund important services.

:42:57. > :42:59.That's 130. Given the period of the settlement, what other

:43:00. > :43:04.multinationals tax bills might be out there that have still not been

:43:05. > :43:11.settled and what the party opposite did with their government to offices

:43:12. > :43:18.-- I like those questions. ,- highlight. Astronomers haven't

:43:19. > :43:25.located the not funny, but `m not sure found evidence of findhng the

:43:26. > :43:32.opposite parted doing anythhng. -- opposite parted. Will he acknowledge

:43:33. > :43:38.the work of the cross party Public Accounts Committee in the l`st

:43:39. > :43:51.Parliament? The campaign for fair tax by multinational companhes was

:43:52. > :43:56.paid by a Labour. There havd been a shift in public opinion over recent

:43:57. > :44:01.years. The pressure on comp`nies to pay the tax that is due unddr the

:44:02. > :44:06.law is greater than ever before I welcome that. And I welcome that

:44:07. > :44:11.change in public opinion. It is the measures taken by this government

:44:12. > :44:13.that has meant that we are getting additional sums from large

:44:14. > :44:21.companies, and the way that has been demonstrated over the last couple of

:44:22. > :44:22.days. Following the success of Google settlement, can the Linister

:44:23. > :44:27.confirm that this government will continue to work with our

:44:28. > :44:30.international partners such as the OA CDs to continue taking a plea to

:44:31. > :44:38.ensure that our tax laws ard compliant with labor or 13 xears?

:44:39. > :44:46.That's over. It was the Prile Minister that got the OECD to focus

:44:47. > :44:51.on this issue. In the way they are taxed, it is right that we did that

:44:52. > :44:59.and it is right that we madd progress and that and I'm pleased

:45:00. > :45:03.that this is coming to fruition Can I ask the Minister will be for a

:45:04. > :45:07.moment rise above the polithcal bickering that we have seen today

:45:08. > :45:15.and without carpets, take t`ken algebra problem here. These mass of

:45:16. > :45:23.companies that are clever, `nd with great respect to the HMRC, these

:45:24. > :45:27.people can hide the very best accountants, the best tax experts,

:45:28. > :45:31.the highest paid lawyers and literal way we shape the law, they will find

:45:32. > :45:34.ways of grounded. In Europe and in this country, we have to look at

:45:35. > :45:41.that and a bit more sophisthcated way. That's in a more sophisticated.

:45:42. > :45:55.I'll send him -- I would sax to look at what occurred over the l`st

:45:56. > :46:00.Parliament. The VA big pounds of additional tax as a consequdnt of

:46:01. > :46:04.their intervention. -- 30 ?8 billion.

:46:05. > :46:15.That is a representation th`t which all seem to maintain. -- we should

:46:16. > :46:18.all. While 130 big pounds mhght seem low for a business by Googld, isn't

:46:19. > :46:21.the reality that we cannot do as much in the revenue can't do as much

:46:22. > :46:27.as we would like to collect back taxes because these come from a

:46:28. > :46:32.significant lax ever had ond tax expert described this morning under

:46:33. > :46:39.the last government, if everything was above board and the board was

:46:40. > :46:42.set at floor level. Under this government, the governor property

:46:43. > :46:53.tax gives us the opportunitx to change the landscape -- divdrted

:46:54. > :46:58.profit tax. On a more compldx to implement than we would likd. What

:46:59. > :47:01.more can we do to get the rdvenues backing the support that thdy do

:47:02. > :47:10.need to apply that evenly and to all? With you to assure the HMRC has

:47:11. > :47:19.the powers and resources. Wd always assured. Last July,... Nelson

:47:20. > :47:28.something that will be legislating for in the finance Bill. To clarify

:47:29. > :47:35.the misinformation, under the law of the lack, what is the theordtical

:47:36. > :47:40.tax liability of Google? -- a lot of the land. The break for Google is

:47:41. > :47:50.the same rate for everybody else. -- rate. Human nature being wh`t it is,

:47:51. > :47:52.at the moment tech is what happened to come and there'll always be a

:47:53. > :47:55.difference between the past government expects to receive an tax

:47:56. > :47:57.is where printed, and there'll always be a different paternity test

:47:58. > :48:00.government expects to receive and taxes actually paid. This is known

:48:01. > :48:07.at the task and will he find the direction the gap has been going

:48:08. > :48:14.since 2010? The task that h`s been falling in terms of Corporation tax

:48:15. > :48:22.avoidance, that has been falling at an even faster rate. -- the tax

:48:23. > :48:28.Will the Minister, the effectiveness of the current proposals in which

:48:29. > :48:32.globalisation of businesses and what the impact would be of the situation

:48:33. > :48:40.we have found ourselves and with and HMRC, had those that have bden

:48:41. > :48:51.implemented? We're in the process of those recommendations. In tdrms of

:48:52. > :48:54.the beps progress, that is `ligning opportunity with fries, and the

:48:55. > :49:00.direction we believe we shotld go in. -- BEPS. Haven't lived to play

:49:01. > :49:03.and getting the BEPS progress started, we want to lead thd way in

:49:04. > :49:13.and lamenting the recommend`tions from BEPS. -- and leading to

:49:14. > :49:23.recommendations. For the delay to minister, he will know why.

:49:24. > :49:34.So we can all see how much tax they are declaring. Though improved

:49:35. > :49:44.transparency. -- that would improve. The UK's positions is not unique. It

:49:45. > :49:50.is the mainstream approach. In terms of some of the issues as to what the

:49:51. > :49:54.tax liability for the company might be, it does depend on having a

:49:55. > :50:00.detailed understanding of where the assets are and what activithes are.

:50:01. > :50:07.Not all of that would be apparent to us from a straight tax return. There

:50:08. > :50:13.is greater transparency and need for companies and I will set up that

:50:14. > :50:18.strategy we have never had before. The ministers are to have it both

:50:19. > :50:23.ways and bigger not individtals -- I tried to have it both ways. The

:50:24. > :50:27.issues does not wash with Mhka because we know the profits in the

:50:28. > :50:32.abscess and liabilities bec`use their are the companies's accounts.

:50:33. > :50:36.We also know that the Corporation tax rate is 20%, so based on both of

:50:37. > :50:48.those pieces of information, how much actually does Google OB

:50:49. > :50:52.Exchequer? -- oh. It has bedn in place, the confidentiality, since

:50:53. > :50:59.whenever we had a tax systel. As the honourable gentleman was to make a

:51:00. > :51:02.case for abandoning that, hd ought to consider with the overall

:51:03. > :51:09.consequences will be for effectiveness of UK as a pl`ce to do

:51:10. > :51:13.business. Lesson of a full understanding of what the assets and

:51:14. > :51:19.activities are of the company, you are in any position to make a

:51:20. > :51:25.judgement as to how much tax they would pay. HMRC is able to do that,

:51:26. > :51:31.and Wawrinka in more than ever. -- HMRC is bringing in more money than

:51:32. > :51:37.ever. Does he agree that it should not take five years to pry this

:51:38. > :51:38.money out, and multinationals themselves need to change the

:51:39. > :51:49.culture? The way in which we can change the

:51:50. > :51:53.culture of multinational colpanies, we were sad to see some of this is

:51:54. > :51:59.by taking action that what we are done by implementing the BEPS

:52:00. > :52:03.recommendation and and I've diverted profit tax. Achievements of this

:52:04. > :52:09.government. -- and bringing an diverted. I cannot believe the

:52:10. > :52:15.government sees this deal as a major success. I is the government is so

:52:16. > :52:18.supportive of sweetheart de`ls for companies like Google, but so slow

:52:19. > :52:27.to act and the liquid to thd business rates burden on thd steel

:52:28. > :52:35.industry? -- why is the govdrnment. We are reviewing this area, as a

:52:36. > :52:45.government, brought in one pound tax cuts recent years. -- ?1 billion.

:52:46. > :52:50.There is no sweetheart deal. HMRC does not undertake sweetheart deals,

:52:51. > :52:54.and it takes a thorough inqtiry When companies except that

:52:55. > :52:58.liabilities, that inquiry c`n't be brought to a conclusion. But we are

:52:59. > :53:00.assured that HMRC is successful in bringing revenue that is to under

:53:01. > :53:16.the law. Urgent question. To ask the Home Secretary to make a

:53:17. > :53:23.statement on top refugees in Europe. -- child refugees. The government is

:53:24. > :53:27.at the forefront of the international response to the

:53:28. > :53:35.unprecedented migration flows into Q and across Europe. We want to

:53:36. > :53:40.catalyst journeys that migr`nts including children are making. - we

:53:41. > :53:42.want to stop the journey. Would have terrible consequences. But the

:53:43. > :53:49.majority of refugees of all ages, declare bias from experts on the

:53:50. > :53:54.ground is protection from s`fe countries in the region of origin is

:53:55. > :53:57.the best way of keeping him safe. And actually allowed him to return

:53:58. > :54:04.home and rebuild their lives once the conflict is over. That's why

:54:05. > :54:09.we're providing more than ?0.1 billion in the humanitarian aid to

:54:10. > :54:14.the Syrian crisis. It is also why we have a resettlement scheme, for the

:54:15. > :54:21.most honourable Syrian refugees Those in with the Mohsni. 1000

:54:22. > :54:26.arrive before Christmas, around half of them are children. Those would be

:54:27. > :54:32.most made. Accredited 19,000 will be resettled by the end of this year.

:54:33. > :54:43.That's end of this Parliament. A resettlement scheme is based on

:54:44. > :54:47.referrals from the U and. Where the UNHCR assess that was the sdttlement

:54:48. > :54:53.is in the best interest of the child. The UNHCR had a clear view

:54:54. > :54:58.that it is better massive Rdddish is an and or friends within thd present

:54:59. > :55:03.to state there. As they are more likely to be reunited with friends

:55:04. > :55:07.and family members or to be taken into extended families networks

:55:08. > :55:12.Last week, the International Development Secretary announced an

:55:13. > :55:17.additional 30 begin pound for shelter, warm clothes, hot food and

:55:18. > :55:25.medical supplies. Including 420 thousand children and babies. -

:55:26. > :55:32.including for 20,000. Unicef, UNHCR, the Red Cross, and to support

:55:33. > :55:38.vulnerable people including children on the move or stranded and Europe

:55:39. > :55:43.or in the Balkans. We have heard calls for the detective had more

:55:44. > :55:48.outcomes element unaccompanhed children's -- the UK. The prime

:55:49. > :55:53.Minster has committed to look again at this issue and is currently under

:55:54. > :55:57.review. Such a serious issud but sensitively affecting the lhves of

:55:58. > :56:00.so many must be considered thoroughly and no decisions have

:56:01. > :56:06.been taking gap. The governlent is clear, any action to help and assess

:56:07. > :56:10.unaccompanied minors must bd in the best interest of the child. It is

:56:11. > :56:16.right that that is our prim`ry concern. But that responsibhlity

:56:17. > :56:19.seriously, and this issue is honoured have a consideration, when

:56:20. > :56:26.this work is completed we whll update the house accordinglx,

:56:27. > :56:36.vitamins a statement to the house. -- I commend the statement. The ad

:56:37. > :56:40.is welcome, but save the chhldren, May 20 6000 children who have

:56:41. > :56:50.unbridled loan. Some let alone, some who have been trafficked by gangs.

:56:51. > :56:55.-- provides a loan. Separatdd from parents, such as the tender old

:56:56. > :57:01.whose case I heard of, separated from his parents as again ptshed him

:57:02. > :57:05.onto a lorry. They do not know where he is. The government has s`id

:57:06. > :57:12.repeatedly that is looking `t save the children and the cross party

:57:13. > :57:15.calls for Britain to take 3000 child refugees. That still been no asset

:57:16. > :57:20.and we hear rumours that thd government will only be looking at

:57:21. > :57:25.help child refugees from calps in the regions, and that is not enough.

:57:26. > :57:31.In Greece and Italy and in the Balkans, the reception centres are

:57:32. > :57:34.full. Children are disappearing The Italian authorities said thdy

:57:35. > :57:39.estimate of around 4000 children who were alone in Italy, simply

:57:40. > :57:46.disappeared last year. And H met 11 and 12-year-olds who were h`d just

:57:47. > :57:51.one volunteer looking after them. They should not be there and loan.

:57:52. > :57:55.We should especially be helping those who have families and Britain,

:57:56. > :58:00.who are desperate to care for them. Last week, a tribunal ruled that

:58:01. > :58:04.three teenagers and affordable adults should be able to save with

:58:05. > :58:08.close relatives here, while their asylum cases are heard, rather than

:58:09. > :58:13.think of bone in France bec`use different system and deadly

:58:14. > :58:19.agreement are simply not working for a long refugee children. Cannot hurt

:58:20. > :58:29.him to see as another Britahn to reform the system to help rdfugees.

:58:30. > :58:32.-- urge him. The teenager from Afghanistan whose system of care.

:58:33. > :58:38.And I'm so thankful because he died, suffocated in a lower just ` few

:58:39. > :58:43.weeks. -- unsuccessful. Takhng crazy risk because he did not wait for the

:58:44. > :58:48.Lord. That is what teenagers do -- lawyers.

:58:49. > :59:00.Our college in the House of Lords was safe from the Holocaust --

:59:01. > :59:04.saved. That he is asking us to his amendment to back save the children

:59:05. > :59:08.campaign, to help a new gendration of vulnerable children. Ple`sed with

:59:09. > :59:19.the government agree before more children disappeared or died, please

:59:20. > :59:25.Thank you Mr Speaker and I say to the brain Honorable Lady, that this

:59:26. > :59:29.government is taking a numbdr of measures to assist child refugees,

:59:30. > :59:32.both in the region and also with some of the specialists support that

:59:33. > :59:37.we are providing here in cotntries like Greece and visibly to support

:59:38. > :59:42.the processing side of clails. And indeed will look at the sittation in

:59:43. > :59:48.northern France and in Calahs, how support the government is providing

:59:49. > :59:51.to French, in terms of the identification of those who are

:59:52. > :59:56.victims of slavery and trafficking, is the key parts of the agrdement

:59:57. > :00:00.that was reached last August between the secretary of customer and the

:00:01. > :00:03.French Minister of the interior I think it is important to recognise

:00:04. > :00:07.Mr Speaker the point that the Honorable Lady maids, around the

:00:08. > :00:15.role of trafficking. Those who are seeking to cells. -- false hope to

:00:16. > :00:19.put a very direct risk. It hs quite horrific way that the traffhc will

:00:20. > :00:22.seek in appalling conditions. They're really not caring whether

:00:23. > :00:29.they live or die. And in th`t context, it is notable that some

:00:30. > :00:34.work by your pet indicated that around 90% of those who are coming

:00:35. > :00:38.to Europe, have actually bedn trafficked in some form or `nother

:00:39. > :00:46.by those involved in the imligration climates. The work that we `re

:00:47. > :00:50.setting for us to go for thd organise immigration task force

:00:51. > :00:53.easier to come confront and combat dangerous work of traffickers. On

:00:54. > :00:57.the issue of reunion, the Dtblin arrangements are there any Honorable

:00:58. > :01:02.Lady mentioned the court case from last week which was specific, in

:01:03. > :01:06.relation to the four individuals concerned. While we will look at the

:01:07. > :01:10.judgement, which is not yet been received, to understand the courts

:01:11. > :01:13.decision and to understand the reasons that were set out for

:01:14. > :01:19.reaching the order that thex made last week. I think it is important

:01:20. > :01:25.to recognise still but that the claim had to be made of asylum in

:01:26. > :01:30.France, to ensure there for the reunification arrangements for

:01:31. > :01:34.operative, as we understand it, the Dublin arrangements themselves. We

:01:35. > :01:37.will wait to see. In the context of the save the children reports and a

:01:38. > :01:43.request to consider the 3000, as I've said, and the Prime Minister

:01:44. > :01:48.said, we are actively considering that proposal and obviously we will

:01:49. > :01:52.return to the House we had considered investigation a

:01:53. > :01:59.conclusion on the matter. The only I think it is important not to stress

:02:00. > :02:05.the analogy too far. The thhng I think we need to remember that only

:02:06. > :02:09.to abuse children survive. They along with their families wdre

:02:10. > :02:16.killed. I think there are some clear parallels that we need to address.

:02:17. > :02:22.We need to remember the enormous contribution that that transform

:02:23. > :02:28.into this country. Doctors `nd surgeons and members of both houses

:02:29. > :02:32.were saved by that. Please ,- I am pleased that the Prime Minister is

:02:33. > :02:37.read looking at this. He is quite right in trying to keep our children

:02:38. > :02:43.to reach. We are where we are. There are children there who are `t risk.

:02:44. > :02:48.I would urge the government to look carefully at this. After all it is

:02:49. > :02:57.the 25th of January. We havd celebrated the Christian festival of

:02:58. > :03:06.children. Hear, hear!. My Honorable friend is right obviously. On the

:03:07. > :03:09.27th of January and earlier this afternoon, I have given recognition

:03:10. > :03:13.to that very important event, and the context of what happened then

:03:14. > :03:16.and how we need to ensure the lessons pass are maintained today. I

:03:17. > :03:22.think our focus Mr Speaker hs clearly aren't trying to assist the

:03:23. > :03:24.most in need children and the most in need refugees. While we have

:03:25. > :03:30.taken the approach that we have today the assistance of the

:03:31. > :03:36.revocation of these persons and the resettlement scheme, and because it

:03:37. > :03:39.is aimed at the issues the programme -- vulnerability, part of which is

:03:40. > :03:48.very much focused on those that have suffered the most. The thought of

:03:49. > :03:53.any child in a foreign country is apparent. Along with dangerous

:03:54. > :03:58.conditions without food or warmth and protection is generally

:03:59. > :04:01.terrifying. Suddenly this is a reality today for thousands of

:04:02. > :04:06.children and those fleeing the conflict. The truth is some of these

:04:07. > :04:09.frightened young souls on otr own doorstep. As my right honourable

:04:10. > :04:13.friend the Leader of the Opposition saw for himself, this weekend, no

:04:14. > :04:17.child should be left to fend for themselves. Whoever they ard

:04:18. > :04:20.wherever they are, I have no doubt that when faced with this, the vast

:04:21. > :04:26.majority of British people would be a moral duty to act as the right

:04:27. > :04:30.honourable gentleman has just said. Can I start Mr Speaker by

:04:31. > :04:35.congratulating my right honourable friend in bringing this question?

:04:36. > :04:39.And would welcome me ministdrs commitment to look seriouslx at this

:04:40. > :04:41.issue. Can I press him on some of the points made by my right

:04:42. > :04:48.honourable friend? In particular to look at children here in Europe as

:04:49. > :04:51.well as those in accounting. The governments policy to take refugees

:04:52. > :04:58.from the region, and only those who have crossed the sea, does he not

:04:59. > :05:02.accept that as this crisis develops? That as a crisis develops there are

:05:03. > :05:06.26,000 unaccompanied childrdn in Europe today. They cannot as the

:05:07. > :05:12.government claims be described as the fittest and the strongest. They

:05:13. > :05:15.are instead highly vulnerable to trafficking and prostitution. They

:05:16. > :05:23.urgently need someone to re`ch out and hand. I appreciate concdrns that

:05:24. > :05:26.this should be an incentive for families to send children alone

:05:27. > :05:33.Surely that should be dealt with and by working with UNHCR to iddntify

:05:34. > :05:37.children who are generally ` loan. Mr Speaker this is the biggdst

:05:38. > :05:45.humanitarian car -- crisis since the Second World War. The Prime Minister

:05:46. > :05:49.has spent recent weeks stomping around Europe with his own list of

:05:50. > :05:54.demands. The Minister has not accepted that if the companx would

:05:55. > :05:59.try to do with this crisis that will make us look selfish. By behng more

:06:00. > :06:03.-- doing more to help our p`rtners in Europe this might restord

:06:04. > :06:08.goodwill. This could restord renegotiation demands. Mr Speaker,

:06:09. > :06:13.as I said this week we will remember the awful events of the Holocaust.

:06:14. > :06:17.Now is the time to take inspiration from those British areas of the last

:06:18. > :06:24.century and act now to change the course of history in this. Lr

:06:25. > :06:30.Speaker I think this countrx can be proud of the record that we have

:06:31. > :06:35.maintained. Hear, hear!. In providing assistance to rur`l people

:06:36. > :06:39.in the region, at one point billion pounds has been committed. H would

:06:40. > :06:44.say to the white Honorable general demand that we are working closely

:06:45. > :06:49.with UNHCR. About how we ard working through the programme. But `lso with

:06:50. > :06:53.the consideration of childrdn. Unicef will also be very cldar that

:06:54. > :06:57.the best way to help childrdn is in the region itself. That is often

:06:58. > :07:05.where those connections frol the family are. He also highlighted the

:07:06. > :07:10.issue of Europe. I say to hhm that we are acting in solidarity with

:07:11. > :07:14.Europe. By the support are we providing to the European Asylum

:07:15. > :07:19.support office. The support that we are providing to friend taxh, in

:07:20. > :07:24.terms of the search and rescue operation. The support that we are

:07:25. > :07:28.providing and the activities to the Mediterranean that the people

:07:29. > :07:31.travellers traffickers will deal with this beyond the borders of

:07:32. > :07:35.Europe in terms of source and transit countries and getting that

:07:36. > :07:42.long-term stability and sectrity that actually is the fundamdntals of

:07:43. > :07:48.this. But I also said we also have to be very careful in the stance

:07:49. > :07:54.that we take in not making `n already extraordinarily difficult

:07:55. > :07:57.situation even worse. Hear, hear!. We know that people tracked

:07:58. > :08:03.traffickers -- traffickers seem to exploit that we say. They try to put

:08:04. > :08:06.more lives at risk to encourage more people to travel. That is why we are

:08:07. > :08:13.looking at this issue very closely in terms of what is in the best

:08:14. > :08:16.interest of the child. To sde that more lives are not put at rhsk in

:08:17. > :08:23.this way will stop to see that we can support activity. We wotld like

:08:24. > :08:29.to provide aid and assistance to children in Europe and refugees in

:08:30. > :08:34.flights across Europe. That commendation of approach sets a very

:08:35. > :08:43.clear record, clearly as I've indicated, to continue to w`tch this

:08:44. > :08:51.issue very closely. Elin Mr Speaker I doubt think it helps to try to

:08:52. > :08:57.confuse this issue. I do thhnk there is a humanitarian case to hdlp these

:08:58. > :09:03.children in limbo and being traffic in. This will be for with problems.

:09:04. > :09:08.Given that we have a record high number of children in the sxstem in

:09:09. > :09:13.this country, already in thd home for foster parents, what efforts

:09:14. > :09:22.have we made and at what capacity to give them the support that they

:09:23. > :09:31.need. ? My right honourable friend makes an important point. Hd makes a

:09:32. > :09:36.valid point. Last year therd were to thousand 500. That is already

:09:37. > :09:45.putting a strain on a number of local authorities. He has bden very

:09:46. > :09:48.a lot of that Bayern -- burden. Indeed he may be aware that under

:09:49. > :09:53.the Immigration Bill that is currently in the other placd, we are

:09:54. > :09:57.seeking to set out a mechanhsm whereby that burden can be lore

:09:58. > :10:05.fairly attributed across local authority areas. We met Mr Speaker I

:10:06. > :10:13.am associated myself with comments about the Holocaust. Robert Burns

:10:14. > :10:19.one of the great humanitari`ns wants us to see ourselves as others see

:10:20. > :10:26.us. How are we to take our fair share of children from Europe? This

:10:27. > :10:34.has been around for months? What we do as more children continud to die

:10:35. > :10:38.in the European winter? Is ` government taking considering taking

:10:39. > :10:43.children from Europe? Will lore support be provided to European

:10:44. > :10:52.countries? To support these children? Mr Speaker I have already

:10:53. > :11:00.indicated the additional funding, in terms of support for those `cross

:11:01. > :11:05.Europe and how some of that money has been specifically provided to

:11:06. > :11:09.Unicef, for example to look at ways in which we can best support

:11:10. > :11:17.children within that overall approach. I do fact that Unhcef

:11:18. > :11:21.themselves emphasise the importance of first and foremost accessing the

:11:22. > :11:25.individual situation and chhldren's best interest, before any actions

:11:26. > :11:28.are taken? Notice that in this situation children who appe`red to

:11:29. > :11:38.be unaccompanied or supportdd by others, decisions for those must be

:11:39. > :11:44.taken into account. Climate no one doubts the humanity of the right

:11:45. > :11:49.honourable ladies with this --. National emotion with hard-headed

:11:50. > :11:55.realism is far bigger in thhs country than in any of country? We

:11:56. > :12:01.are also spending more than the whole of the rest of your ptt

:12:02. > :12:05.together, on putting and helping people in Syria. Every child refugee

:12:06. > :12:09.we take, use simply going to have to take on many other people who would

:12:10. > :12:15.come as a part of a family. I urge the Coke government to stick to

:12:16. > :12:19.present policy. Spend money in the region and hold money in thd region,

:12:20. > :12:28.and not necessarily beat up as such shown with these policies. Lr

:12:29. > :12:34.Speaker we want to see that children who are affected by this appalling

:12:35. > :12:38.crisis are given help and assistance and the earliest opportunitx. That

:12:39. > :12:43.is why we have committed thd aid of support that we have in the region.

:12:44. > :12:47.It is also why if you look `t Callie, why we have been giving

:12:48. > :12:58.support to the French government to make sure claims have been resolved

:12:59. > :13:08.as quickly as possible. That way people can get help at the darliest

:13:09. > :13:10.chance. In 2015, last year, 300 000 child refugees entered throtgh

:13:11. > :13:17.Greece. 16,000 injured throtgh Italy. The problem is that the

:13:18. > :13:22.external border of the EU and the countries that are external border,

:13:23. > :13:27.are just not getting the support they need from the European Union.

:13:28. > :13:30.As a result perception centres have not been opened up in appropriate

:13:31. > :13:34.places. With the Minister tdll us what has happened with the deal that

:13:35. > :13:46.has been made between the ET and Turkey? How do we do with this

:13:47. > :13:49.terrible crisis? Well Mr Spdaker work is continuing in respect to

:13:50. > :13:53.Turkey in this government is providing funding and support of

:13:54. > :14:01.that. The right honourable general is right to highlight the issues of

:14:02. > :14:05.countries like Greece. In tdrms of experts and any other country in the

:14:06. > :14:15.EU, it is that sense of how we can support for example that is the

:14:16. > :14:21.forefront of our work. Thank you Mr Speaker. As my Honorable frhend has

:14:22. > :14:26.mentioned can we as other councils to help in regard to these children

:14:27. > :14:33.but few of these countries have been forthcoming. Can we consider helping

:14:34. > :14:39.more Syrian refugees? Will we press on to make sure there is effective

:14:40. > :14:47.disposal with the young that are already in the UK? Low I can assure

:14:48. > :14:53.my honourable friend that there is close work that is ongoing with the

:14:54. > :14:58.Home Office. The children's minister on the bench alongside me as well

:14:59. > :15:05.argues that support they nedd is equal in countries where we are

:15:06. > :15:09.taking considerable burden with the Government Association at others as

:15:10. > :15:12.well as maintaining that within Immigration Bill to ensure that

:15:13. > :15:25.there is a fair adaptation of young May I commend the Minister for his

:15:26. > :15:30.statement about responsibilhties to some of the most vulnerable

:15:31. > :15:33.children. Men also make a plea for the very poorest in our

:15:34. > :15:37.constituencies, who already have almost no hope of getting a decent

:15:38. > :15:44.home, who find social services under huge pressure. Who almost h`ve no

:15:45. > :15:52.chance of getting into a school of their choice. Might I ask when the

:15:53. > :16:00.government is considering the needs and the priorities of the children,

:16:01. > :16:05.so they are are committed to bringing in 20,000 refugees, any

:16:06. > :16:12.concessions on this issue is taken from a total of 20,000? I as I have

:16:13. > :16:20.said, we have closely considering the issue of children. The people

:16:21. > :16:24.that survived to the resettlement scheme, around half of thosd are

:16:25. > :16:28.children. We are very conschous of the support for local authorities,

:16:29. > :16:41.we have announced additional funding to meet the needs under resdttlement

:16:42. > :16:46.for years 225. -- 2-5. We wdre told that 200,000 people would bd

:16:47. > :16:54.admitted to this country each year. In fact 320,000 have been admitted

:16:55. > :17:00.just this last year. If we `dmit another 20,000 people to thhs

:17:01. > :17:04.country over the next five xears, or 4000 per year, does that me`n 4 00

:17:05. > :17:16.are not admitted from other parts of the world. I say to my Honorable

:17:17. > :17:24.friend that the resettlement scheme is meeting our rightful oblhgations

:17:25. > :17:29.to the crisis we see in Syrha. The number we have outlined in the

:17:30. > :17:35.course of this Parliament. We have other arrangements of the UNHCR

:17:36. > :17:46.We're responding to the crisis we see before us. The volunteers talk

:17:47. > :17:53.of refugees families struggling with the dilemma whether buying black

:17:54. > :17:59.sizes is to dope the childrdn or they will reveal the authorhties...

:18:00. > :18:02.Surely the government to better safeguard children for families

:18:03. > :18:08.before they reach the UK, to avoid the terrible situations the most

:18:09. > :18:14.effective way to do that is to see that the families actually claimed

:18:15. > :18:21.asylum in France. There havd been around 2800 claims in and around

:18:22. > :18:30.Calais. People could be movdd away into Calais into better recdption

:18:31. > :18:35.centres. In the identify so those reunion issues that you've

:18:36. > :18:41.highlighted. Do you agree that many members of this house has stggested

:18:42. > :18:47.we rescue on accompanied minors from other EU countries and bring up to

:18:48. > :18:52.Britain, and the danger of that is that their relatives will appear and

:18:53. > :18:59.human rights laws will insist that they have a right to join them in

:19:00. > :19:02.their UK? I say to my Honor`ble friend that we need to conthnue

:19:03. > :19:07.these issues very carefully, what is at the forefront of my mind is not

:19:08. > :19:11.seeing more children being put at risk and putting their lives at

:19:12. > :19:15.risk. Figure that is what the people smugglers and traffickers whll do.

:19:16. > :19:22.As why we need to act with such great care to make sure we do not

:19:23. > :19:27.make the situation worse th`n it is. I want to ask the Minister

:19:28. > :19:37.specifically about the treatment of people and dignity, you'll be well

:19:38. > :19:39.aware about people in own constituency stigmatizing

:19:40. > :19:46.asylum-seekers by forcing them to wear red bands. Lack of FEM@ housing

:19:47. > :19:54.workers, asylum-seekers be forced to sign documents,... Amazes md to her

:19:55. > :20:04.and individuals bedroom without consent. We were playing crhcket,

:20:05. > :20:16.which we are not, the honourable gentleman's bowl would be a little

:20:17. > :20:23.wide. I will certainly try to do so. In responding to the urgent question

:20:24. > :20:30.I had last week, ideas... Expect higher ideals. Is evidence to

:20:31. > :20:37.suggest this is not the casd it will be treated with the utmost

:20:38. > :20:44.seriousness. They firstly apologise for my vocal frailty, but I'm going

:20:45. > :20:50.to struggle through this qudstion. I find the government's response to

:20:51. > :20:54.this entire crisis has been frustratingly slow and appe`red to

:20:55. > :21:00.lack compassion. I do support it. I do think you're on the right track,

:21:01. > :21:05.and I have been bolstered bx eight certain things you have dond. In

:21:06. > :21:09.supporting the reconsiderathon government is not taking on refugee

:21:10. > :21:15.children, can you let others timescale for that's, and bdaring

:21:16. > :21:20.out a knee jerk reaction for political gain is not in thd best

:21:21. > :21:32.interest of the child and would be fruitless and counterproductive It

:21:33. > :21:38.is right to take this in it... Indeed the advice we have h`d from

:21:39. > :21:43.the UNHCR is to help childrdn in the region and the issue of compassion

:21:44. > :21:49.with aid and investment we have given in the region, it absolutely

:21:50. > :21:58.has that sense of compassion behind it and is why it has been structured

:21:59. > :22:01.in that way. As the primary educator my heart was broken on Thursday

:22:02. > :22:12.seeing the condition of children and Calais. In a roundtable, we

:22:13. > :22:20.understand there was two to 300 families with many children who have

:22:21. > :22:24.the right to remain in the TK, but we -- they do not know their legal

:22:25. > :22:27.rights. Can you put a legal resource into that camp to help thosd

:22:28. > :22:35.families avoid the traffickdrs because they have the right to come

:22:36. > :22:39.here in the first place. Ultimately these are matters for the French

:22:40. > :22:43.government. We have committdd resulting in terms of what `ctually

:22:44. > :22:47.happens in their own countrx, and the arrangements there. I do want to

:22:48. > :22:53.underline this issue of clahming asylum in France to see that

:22:54. > :22:56.assistance is provided at the earliest opportunity. That hs what

:22:57. > :22:59.we have committed with the French government and support the hn that

:23:00. > :23:05.activity. We have provided funding to assist them. Reading those

:23:06. > :23:08.exceptions outside of Calais so that people are able to travel away from

:23:09. > :23:20.the area and get to the dutx support they need. When will the governments

:23:21. > :23:25.abide with to support the alendment, I met an Afghan interpreter in

:23:26. > :23:31.December who was trying to look after some of the other company

:23:32. > :23:40.children, by the time I recounted that that, the boy was dead. This

:23:41. > :23:47.Wednesday, Holocaust mortal Day would that be a day for you to make

:23:48. > :23:52.up your mind. I say the honourable gentleman at the appropriatd thing

:23:53. > :23:57.to do is to consider the issues of the best interest of the chhld to

:23:58. > :24:03.get the further input of thd UNHCR and others. Of the risk of laking

:24:04. > :24:06.the situation worse, the risk of seeing a more children put their

:24:07. > :24:10.lives on the line by making those perilous journeys across thd

:24:11. > :24:17.Mediterranean. That is of the forefront of our minds and that is

:24:18. > :24:23.why we will consider it in that way. At the heart of the modern slavery

:24:24. > :24:30.act, putting victims of exhortation and trafficking first, I wanted

:24:31. > :24:35.to... In this case on a company children are among the most

:24:36. > :24:38.vulnerable victims of traffhcking. What is happening to identify these

:24:39. > :24:47.very vulnerable children have been trafficked and are at risk of

:24:48. > :24:54.acquisition? I could say th`t is part of the joint declaration last

:24:55. > :25:01.August, we are providing financial existence -- assistance to people.

:25:02. > :25:09.We're trying to unify vulnerable migrants, do they need help care,

:25:10. > :25:22.and to ensure their offered the appropriate advice and support from

:25:23. > :25:27.the French system. ! With the separation of rationality in

:25:28. > :25:33.emotions over this issue, another member just laid out the facts and

:25:34. > :25:37.we're merely responding to them The number from Gainsborough has no

:25:38. > :25:48.rationality here. Will he rdcall that almost a year ago todax on the

:25:49. > :25:56.29th of January... The lady is asking a question, and two lembers

:25:57. > :26:00.are having a conversation who think they are more portents than the oral

:26:01. > :26:07.lady, your Mark scandal waits to another time. Your thoughts have

:26:08. > :26:13.been heard let's hear others. Feel free to start again. This is

:26:14. > :26:22.important and courteous this is important as well. I would just say

:26:23. > :26:28.that we are merely talking `bout the facts, it is a fact that two years

:26:29. > :26:37.ago on the 29th of January 2014 the government refused our calls to join

:26:38. > :26:42.the UNHCR scheme and took the meat to change their mind. Do not leave

:26:43. > :26:50.it to long again, open our doors now. I say to the Honorable lady

:26:51. > :26:53.that the focus of this government is to providing the most appropriate

:26:54. > :26:58.support to the vulnerable, that is why we have established the

:26:59. > :27:03.resettlement scheme, that is why we are providing aid, and assistance in

:27:04. > :27:05.the region. It is not helping the most number of people possible, we

:27:06. > :27:10.do most effectively in thosd areas and indeed by some of the additional

:27:11. > :27:16.funding I have outlined to the house this afternoon. I do say th`t we are

:27:17. > :27:21.considering the issue careftlly but it is right that we get it right

:27:22. > :27:27.rather burning into any specific timetable because we're talking

:27:28. > :27:30.about children. This is of course extremely difficult issue and our

:27:31. > :27:39.hearts go out to the poor children in Calais. Don't we need to be very

:27:40. > :27:45.careful, namely that is in children's best interest in the

:27:46. > :27:49.reach of UK aid available in hundreds of millions of pounds and

:27:50. > :27:56.not in the clutches of evil traffickers that do not card if they

:27:57. > :28:03.live or die? My Honorable friend has been appointed very concisely and

:28:04. > :28:08.well,. We have traffickers `t the forefront of our minds. Sochal media

:28:09. > :28:17.is selling a false hope and false opportunity and putting livds at

:28:18. > :28:21.risk. I would like to think the colleagues from seven different

:28:22. > :28:27.parties, who signed a joint letter to Prime Minister the subject. We

:28:28. > :28:32.obviously welcome the fact that the government is still considering this

:28:33. > :28:36.but we are right to do so whth a greater degree of urgency. Hf it is

:28:37. > :28:41.in fact 3000 children that the government is considering, H hope

:28:42. > :28:47.they're not saying it should happen over a period of five years, because

:28:48. > :28:53.some of the children will bd at risk of falling to the hands of

:28:54. > :29:02.traffickers or freezing to death. We are providing assistance to refugees

:29:03. > :29:07.across Europe and in the Balkans, an additional ?30 million has been

:29:08. > :29:12.outlined last week. We do nded to take care to ensure that we are not

:29:13. > :29:15.making the situation worse `nd we are putting the best interest of

:29:16. > :29:27.children in our mind. Around half of those who are arrived already our

:29:28. > :29:33.children. We come now to thd main business, the programme mothon,

:29:34. > :29:38.Minister to move, minister to move formally, the question is the

:29:39. > :29:47.childcare bill number two, `s on the order paper, the shadow minhster

:29:48. > :30:01.does not wish to contribute either. Is it as on the order paper. Say I

:30:02. > :30:08.or no, I think the eyes havd it As I informed the house on the 26th of

:30:09. > :30:14.October, before a report st`ge begins I will seek to identhfy in

:30:15. > :30:21.advance the changes made in committee which I expect to certify

:30:22. > :30:28.for any governments report stage. If passed would be likely to ldad to me

:30:29. > :30:31.to issue a certificate, my provisional certificates based on

:30:32. > :30:36.those changes is available on the bills before Parliament website and

:30:37. > :30:40.of the vote office. At the dnd of the report stage I am required to

:30:41. > :30:47.consider the bill as amended on report for certification. As I

:30:48. > :30:50.informed the House of the 26th of October I accepted the advice of the

:30:51. > :30:55.procedure committee not as ` rule to give reasons for decisions of

:30:56. > :31:02.certification during the exponential phase of the new regime. Anxbody

:31:03. > :31:08.wishing to make presentations to me prior to any decision should send

:31:09. > :31:10.them to the clerk of registration. Order the court will now proceed to

:31:11. > :31:23.lead the orders of We will take New Clause one with

:31:24. > :31:30.which it will be convenient to consider New Clause 2 and alendments

:31:31. > :31:38.one and two. To move New Cl`use one, I'd call the shadow minister. Thank

:31:39. > :31:46.you Mr Speaker, it is a ple`sure to move New Clause one and New Clause 2

:31:47. > :31:49.and also speak to amendment two Having spent five years on the

:31:50. > :31:55.Justice team, Mr Speaker, and having to speak to many quite dreadful

:31:56. > :32:02.bills going through this pl`ce and this time, it is quite a soft

:32:03. > :32:05.landing for me to be greeted by the remaining stages of the childcare

:32:06. > :32:15.bill which I think is essentially quite uncontroversial and whose aims

:32:16. > :32:21.we enthusiastically support. I would like to pay tribute to the Honorable

:32:22. > :32:25.member of Northwest or him for his work in challenging the Minhster as

:32:26. > :32:32.it made its way through the committee stage. Everybody here will

:32:33. > :32:36.know she is a ferocious chalpion for quality provision for all children

:32:37. > :32:41.and has particular expertisd and services for children with

:32:42. > :32:45.disabilities. Having read the record of the debate in committee, it is

:32:46. > :32:49.obvious how valuable her contributions were. She will be a

:32:50. > :32:54.menace to our education teal on this side of the House but in her new

:32:55. > :33:05.role she will be a robust champion and defender of Britain's place in

:33:06. > :33:11.the European Union. New Clatse one titled in my name and those of my

:33:12. > :33:14.Honorable friend requires the government to evaluate the

:33:15. > :33:21.implementation and effectivdness of this bill should it become `n act. I

:33:22. > :33:25.have also spent, as my time and justice, five years in the procedure

:33:26. > :33:30.committee of the House of Commons and in that time we pondered the

:33:31. > :33:36.value of free legislative scrutiny and longed for a petition. Where

:33:37. > :33:40.governments would consult meaningfully on their planndd. I

:33:41. > :33:45.think Post legislative scrutiny would be similarly of value. The

:33:46. > :33:49.principal problem that we c`n see with this bill is that it does not

:33:50. > :33:55.do what the Prime Minister claimed that it would and during thd

:33:56. > :34:00.election campaign, I know these are heady moments for all of us, and

:34:01. > :34:06.there are those in my party to who gets occasionally carried away, I am

:34:07. > :34:09.sure. In one particularly effervescent moment the PM

:34:10. > :34:12.proclaimed and in a quote for his press release that for families with

:34:13. > :34:17.young children, child care hs not one issue it is the issue. They are

:34:18. > :34:23.asking how could we make thhs work, how could we afford it. Will one of

:34:24. > :34:27.us have to quit work? It should not be this wave he said, it is why we

:34:28. > :34:30.are defined 15 hours of fred child care a week for working pardnts of

:34:31. > :34:35.three and four-year-olds and I could tell you today he said that we are

:34:36. > :34:41.going further, a lot further. We're going to take that free childcare

:34:42. > :34:45.and we are going to it. It hs fantastic stuff, isn't it? @nd with

:34:46. > :34:50.a conservative government you can get 30 hours of free child care a

:34:51. > :34:57.week. Marvellous! And if I believed it at the time I might have voted

:34:58. > :35:01.for it myself. The trouble hs that thousands of families did bdlieve

:35:02. > :35:06.the Prime Minister when he promised them that he would be doublhng the

:35:07. > :35:11.current 15 hours of free chhld care a week. And how disappointed they

:35:12. > :35:18.will all be to discover that the promise was false. Even those who do

:35:19. > :35:22.not leave and read the small print are going to be disappointed because

:35:23. > :35:27.when he made the promise, and the notes at the bottom of the press

:35:28. > :35:31.release, was a caveat. Children will only get the free child card if

:35:32. > :35:35.their parents are working more than eight hours a week. So thousands of

:35:36. > :35:42.families where both parents work more than eight hours a week each

:35:43. > :35:46.could proceed to plan on th`t basis. Or so they thought. What is in the

:35:47. > :35:51.bill, it does not say anythhng about eight hours in the bill. Thd

:35:52. > :35:56.government now says that both parents must be working at least 16

:35:57. > :36:01.hours a week at the minimum wage, or just to help confuse things a little

:36:02. > :36:05.bit more, be earning above the equivalent earnings of 16 hours per

:36:06. > :36:14.week on the minimum wage but in fewer hours. The government misled

:36:15. > :36:20.the public and now it is confusing parents and providers with the

:36:21. > :36:24.implementation. This is why am supporting New Clause one, because

:36:25. > :36:27.it is needed. It is needed to ensure that the government examines the

:36:28. > :36:32.consequences of the enactment of this bill, because there ard some

:36:33. > :36:37.very serious potential and H know unintended, consequences of this

:36:38. > :36:41.measure. The first potential consequence, I would like the

:36:42. > :36:46.government to monitor, is the impact on supply of childcare placds in

:36:47. > :36:54.their quality. I will explahn why this is a problem after I h`ve given

:36:55. > :36:57.way to the Minister. All parties of the last general election promise to

:36:58. > :37:02.increase the free entitlement in one way or another. The Honorable

:37:03. > :37:08.member's party from us to include the Mac increase it from 15 to 5

:37:09. > :37:15.hours but the conservatives promised 15 to 30 hours, can she tell the

:37:16. > :37:21.House who she could have included or excluded the definition of working

:37:22. > :37:26.parents? The problem I'm gohng to go on to explain is the people the

:37:27. > :37:30.government is going to excltde could well be on higher earnings than the

:37:31. > :37:35.minimum wage but working fewer hours, they would be entitldd to his

:37:36. > :37:42.free additional 15 hours, whereas someone who is working for 05 or 16

:37:43. > :37:46.hours, or someone working 14 hours on the minimum wage, correct me if I

:37:47. > :37:52.am wrong and I will let him intervene again, will not bd

:37:53. > :38:01.entitled to the additional 05 hours. She did mention the comments by the

:38:02. > :38:05.Member for an Northwest door am -- North West Durham and use that in

:38:06. > :38:08.the committee stage this is a good bill, I can find nothing to disagree

:38:09. > :38:12.with it, so I hope in the h`ndover they did have that discussion. In

:38:13. > :38:18.terms of the eligibility crhteria, it is very straightforward, she

:38:19. > :38:25.asked me to intervene. It is can be judged based on income, if xou are

:38:26. > :38:29.under 25 Comey you need to darn ?107 a week, if you are over 25 `nd on

:38:30. > :38:33.the national living wage to be introduced by this government then

:38:34. > :38:38.you will be the national living wage times the numbers you can work, it

:38:39. > :38:44.is very straightforward. Th`t is as simple as they get, I said on the

:38:45. > :38:48.outset that I support the bhll and I support it, it used to be

:38:49. > :38:54.enthusiastically. But the Mhnister to suggest that it is a perfect

:38:55. > :38:58.bill... It does not have anx complexity. I think as he

:38:59. > :39:04.demonstrated incredibly well there is a huge amount of complexhty, my

:39:05. > :39:09.point is that you can be on low earnings and work less than 16 hours

:39:10. > :39:12.a week, you will not qualifx but if you are on higher earnings `nd. .

:39:13. > :39:18.The honourable gentleman saxs from a sedentary position that universal

:39:19. > :39:24.credit will help improve thd situation but I bet to suggdst that

:39:25. > :39:32.it will actually further colplicate the situation and the amendlent that

:39:33. > :39:37.I have tabled seeks to make sure that these perceived complications

:39:38. > :39:41.and anticipated complications do not actually have an intended

:39:42. > :39:44.consequences. As I said thex are unintended but the Minister would be

:39:45. > :39:49.rather naive to think that these are consequences that could not ever

:39:50. > :39:55.occur. I give way to the Honorable Lady. I am extremely grateftl to the

:39:56. > :40:01.Honorable Lady for giving wdight, I've struggled how any of this is

:40:02. > :40:05.undone by Clause one? Is shd looking at the wrong piece of paper because

:40:06. > :40:08.I will go on to explain what is a New Clause one and I hope if she

:40:09. > :40:15.listens carefully she will see what it is we are trying to get `t. The

:40:16. > :40:20.new analysis by the House of Commons Library reveals that there hs a

:40:21. > :40:26.black hole of ?480 million hn the funding of this childcare offer and

:40:27. > :40:33.this shortfall represents ?470 per child each year for those t`king up

:40:34. > :40:38.the 430 hours of free child care. Independent research taken by

:40:39. > :40:42.research company Cedar, comlissioned by the Pre-school Learning @lliance

:40:43. > :40:46.suggest that the funding review undertaken by the department has

:40:47. > :40:50.underestimated the cost of delivering childcare, the rdsearch

:40:51. > :40:54.has found that if funded, at the average rate announced by the

:40:55. > :41:00.government on the 25th of November of ?4 83 per hour, which is ?4 8

:41:01. > :41:07.minus the earliest pupil prdmium which they say the good is going to

:41:08. > :41:14.be worth 5p an hour, they whll face an annual shortfall of... Pdr child

:41:15. > :41:27.for three and four-year-olds. Taking up the 15 hour entitlement. What

:41:28. > :41:30.could be the consequence of this spending gap? Childcare providers

:41:31. > :41:37.will have some difficult choices to make. There is every possibhlity

:41:38. > :41:42.that an attempt to make ends meet, the gap is met through drivhng down

:41:43. > :41:45.quality and others may leavd the market altogether, resulting in less

:41:46. > :41:52.choices for parents and lack of supply. The preschool learnhng

:41:53. > :41:56.alliance warns, ominously, that the existing scheme is underfunded, it

:41:57. > :42:05.is now they say, crunch timd for the sector. The sector is already in a

:42:06. > :42:08.precarious position in the Linister needs to reflect on the fact that

:42:09. > :42:18.the family and childcare trtst reflects that a quarter has a

:42:19. > :42:24.shortage of... There are less places now than there were in 2010 and as

:42:25. > :42:29.the government failed to buhld capacity in the sector, where are

:42:30. > :42:32.the extra hours going to happen And how does the Minister think

:42:33. > :42:37.providers are going to pay for it? New Clause one flags these hssues

:42:38. > :42:43.with the government and askdd that ministers monitor the effect of the

:42:44. > :42:53.arrangement. I give way. I think the Honorable member for being so

:42:54. > :42:56.generous in giving way. The Labour Party did not promise to increase

:42:57. > :43:02.the hourly rate, so if the Honorable member is arguing that fundhng is

:43:03. > :43:09.not am not, could she tell ts what the Labour Party considers `s the

:43:10. > :43:15.right funding rate? I do wish it was my bill here that we were ddbating.

:43:16. > :43:20.I really do. It is his bill and he has to defend his bill and he asked

:43:21. > :43:25.to argue against my Clause. That is why we are here. This is not a rerun

:43:26. > :43:31.of the election campaign and I am sure we are all glad about that New

:43:32. > :43:36.Clause one also asks that the government evaluates the impact on

:43:37. > :43:41.parental employment in the administrative burdens placdd on

:43:42. > :43:46.parents and providers. What parents want aside from high-qualitx and

:43:47. > :43:49.affordable provision, is a scheme that is easy to understand `nd is

:43:50. > :43:54.predictable. Deciding when to and for how many hours to return to work

:43:55. > :43:58.after having a baby is a difficult and finely balanced choice.

:43:59. > :44:05.Employers, parents, they nedd certainty. As parents fret over the

:44:06. > :44:09.balance of work and family life employers and co-workers also make

:44:10. > :44:15.choices about their hours and staffing. We want those pardnts who

:44:16. > :44:18.choose to, to be able to work. And any opaqueness about a elighbility

:44:19. > :44:24.is damaging to the take-up of this game. And harms confidence that the

:44:25. > :44:26.government will not move thd goalposts once complex family

:44:27. > :44:33.arrangements have been put hnto place. The proposed scheme, where

:44:34. > :44:39.someone owing ?107 and have a day, would be eligible for 30 hotrs a

:44:40. > :44:43.week but someone who works 05 hours a week on minimum wage is not

:44:44. > :44:48.eligible, will seem bonkers to most people and therefore I would urge

:44:49. > :44:52.the government as New Clausd one suggests, to monitor the impact of

:44:53. > :44:58.this change. And monitor thd impact it has on parental employment, in

:44:59. > :45:03.particular. It is not just the complexity of the scheme th`t will

:45:04. > :45:08.put so many parents off, it is the potential of the administration

:45:09. > :45:14.involves improving their entitled to free additional hours. How does the

:45:15. > :45:21.Minister and vitiated parents be asked to provide... Prove to

:45:22. > :45:26.providers that they can provide We are aware of the difficultids

:45:27. > :45:30.encountered by the tax credht system when earnings fluctuate, wh`t will

:45:31. > :45:36.happen when a parent entitldd to 30 hours free but then there are dip

:45:37. > :45:41.between the threshold for some reason, who will be responshble for

:45:42. > :45:50.policing this? I do notice hn the bill that there are provisions for

:45:51. > :45:54.HMRC to become involved. As well as tribunals and local authorities and

:45:55. > :46:00.the Minister has explained previously that he secured ?1

:46:01. > :46:05.million, for emergency fundhng and contingencies fund to pay for

:46:06. > :46:08.development of joint online child application checking system which is

:46:09. > :46:15.to be devised by HMRC. The Linister says that this system will be simple

:46:16. > :46:23.and straightforward and it will save parents valuable time. New Clause

:46:24. > :46:29.one asks that the Minister hs held to this assertion. We just want to

:46:30. > :46:38.hold him to it. Experience tells us that schemes that administr`tive

:46:39. > :46:43.Tivoli are bird him some ard open to abuse and off-putting to potential

:46:44. > :46:46.beneficiaries. The purpose of New Clause one is to ensure that these

:46:47. > :46:53.unintended consequences of the bill which the government has bedn warned

:46:54. > :46:56.within the sector, are closdly monitored so steps can be t`ken to

:46:57. > :47:03.ensure the new measures do not in any way harm availability or

:47:04. > :47:13.quality. They do not place unreasonable burden on parents or

:47:14. > :47:18.providers. I give way again. Thank you for being so generous. Xou raise

:47:19. > :47:22.quite important questions, `nd she raise quite important questhons

:47:23. > :47:27.around parents and zero hours contracts and how they will be

:47:28. > :47:31.monitored. The first point hs that parents on zero hour contracts are

:47:32. > :47:36.self-employed and are all entitled to childcare under this schdme. HMRC

:47:37. > :47:39.will check the income levels and in the case of self-employed, they will

:47:40. > :47:44.know how much they earn over a period of time. In addition to more

:47:45. > :47:49.important there is a grace period. So if you fell out of work for that

:47:50. > :47:57.period, you will not lose your childcare. Am grateful to the

:47:58. > :48:00.Minister for his intervention but I might suggest that he make his own

:48:01. > :48:06.speech when I finished, he light want to answer some of my qtestions

:48:07. > :48:15.at that point. I will move on to giving weight to the member. Am

:48:16. > :48:20.grateful to my member for ghving way and I am pleased to serve the

:48:21. > :48:27.committee and I've never sedn a minister intervened so often in

:48:28. > :48:33.other peoplespeeches. When the Minister be really assuring us that

:48:34. > :48:39.the excepted Clause one havd accepted this scrutiny down in law?

:48:40. > :48:47.I think my Honorable friend makes a good point. He makes it verx well.

:48:48. > :48:52.We all like a keen and perkx minister, but it will be rather good

:48:53. > :48:56.should he be more willing to hold himself or account after thd

:48:57. > :49:02.introduction of this bill bx adopting the Clause. However I shall

:49:03. > :49:07.move on to New Clause to. This Clause also tabled in my nale and

:49:08. > :49:14.that of my Honorable friend's. Requires the government to lonitor

:49:15. > :49:22.the attainment gap between xoung children and it specifies bdtween

:49:23. > :49:24.different genders, different ethnic backgrounds and socioeconomhc

:49:25. > :49:28.background. Those living in different parts of the country, and

:49:29. > :49:35.those who do and do not havd a disability. We think, and otr

:49:36. > :49:41.experience tells us, unless miniatures monitor and are required

:49:42. > :49:44.to report on this gap, focus will be lost and equality of opporttnity for

:49:45. > :49:51.all young people will never be achieved. In preparing New Clause 2

:49:52. > :49:54.would like to acknowledge the invaluable work of the soci`l

:49:55. > :50:01.mobility in child poverty commission. Setting up the

:50:02. > :50:06.commission, was relatively dasy but listening and acting on what it has

:50:07. > :50:10.to say seems going a bit far for this government. Perhaps thd Clause

:50:11. > :50:16.would be an opportunity to put that right in a very small way. @s the

:50:17. > :50:21.commission says the Britain we all should aspire to help build the Mac

:50:22. > :50:25.build is where opportunities are shared equally and not dependent on

:50:26. > :50:29.the family you are born into, the place where you live or the school

:50:30. > :50:35.that you attend. It is a society where being born poor does not

:50:36. > :50:39.condemn someone to a lifetile of poverty, instead it should be a

:50:40. > :50:45.society where your progress in your life, the job you do in the income

:50:46. > :50:49.you earn and be by cellular enjoyed our dependent on your ability, not

:50:50. > :50:58.your background or birth. The social mobility and child poverty

:50:59. > :51:02.commissions report says that Britain is on the verge of becoming a

:51:03. > :51:07.permanently divided nation. It exposes some of the deep divisions

:51:08. > :51:12.that characterize our nation. Those at the top in Britain today look

:51:13. > :51:22.remarkably similar to those who rose to the top 50 years ago. For

:51:23. > :51:27.example, 71% of senior judgds, 2% of senior armed forces and 45% of

:51:28. > :51:35.civil service departmental heads attended private schools, compared

:51:36. > :51:41.to 7% of the general population Britain could become the most open,

:51:42. > :51:47.fair and mobile society in the modern world. A policy and practice

:51:48. > :51:54.of government needs to change and it all starts, I think, with e`rly

:51:55. > :52:00.years. All children, whatevdr their background should be school ready by

:52:01. > :52:03.the age of five. But less than half of the poorest children in Dngland

:52:04. > :52:10.are ready for school by then. Compared to two thirds of the others

:52:11. > :52:13.and a deep gender divide me`ns girls from the poorest families do almost

:52:14. > :52:18.as well as boys from the better off families at this point. The

:52:19. > :52:24.commission finds that efforts to improve the school readiness of the

:52:25. > :52:32.poorest children are uncoordinated, confused, and patchy. They `lso

:52:33. > :52:35.comment that the complexity of the childcare funding system is

:52:36. > :52:42.hampering efforts to increase maternal employment. The colmission

:52:43. > :52:46.has some straightforward suggestions for the government to help narrow

:52:47. > :52:51.the gap at age five. It says that the government needs to end the

:52:52. > :52:57.strategic vacuum in the early years by introducing to clear strdtching

:52:58. > :53:00.long-term objectives. This hs the government's commission to have the

:53:01. > :53:05.development gap between the poorest children and the rest at agd five

:53:06. > :53:13.and to have the maternal employment gap between Britain and the best

:53:14. > :53:18.performing nations, both by 202 . Further, the commission argtes that

:53:19. > :53:22.the government needs to radhcally simplify the multiple streals which

:53:23. > :53:29.finance childcare. New Clause to tells the government that whlling

:53:30. > :53:40.the gap in attainment and... Is not enough. I believe they have the

:53:41. > :53:47.will, but will is not enough. They are very quiet now aren't they?

:53:48. > :53:54.Willing the ends without thd means will cause more resentment `nd more

:53:55. > :53:57.division and not last. This New Clause enforcing the governlent to

:53:58. > :54:02.assess and report on the gap development and attainment, will

:54:03. > :54:09.ensure that progress is measured. And allows this happens,

:54:10. > :54:13.opportunities to intervene will be missed and inequality will be

:54:14. > :54:23.further entranced. I will ghve way. -- entrenched. In 2016 and tore

:54:24. > :54:30.Britain, as the inequality gap widens, the most important decision

:54:31. > :54:40.for our children is how thex choose their parents in a is how they will

:54:41. > :54:45.get on in life. I think New Clause 2 is a modest request given the scale

:54:46. > :54:51.of the challenge we face. And it is something the government ought to be

:54:52. > :54:54.doing any way. A strategy to narrow the gap to properly co-ordinate

:54:55. > :54:59.policy and were reporting to Parliament is needed. The mdasures

:55:00. > :55:12.in this bill have the potential to diminish supply and quality of

:55:13. > :55:17.childcare. New cost to encotrages the government to do some of the

:55:18. > :55:22.strategic thinking that we need if adopted, the government will have to

:55:23. > :55:27.carefully track the taker of the offeror, among the 40% most

:55:28. > :55:36.disadvantaged to better unddrstand the reasons for low take-up. So then

:55:37. > :55:40.we can address them. The kex in approving the attainment of poorest

:55:41. > :55:45.children, high-quality earlx education is at risk due to the

:55:46. > :55:50.question marks next to fundhng. That is why I encourage the government to

:55:51. > :55:56.support this New Clause. We know poor areas have a higher proportion

:55:57. > :56:01.of providers from the maint`ined sector, mainly preschools in

:56:02. > :56:11.children's centres. This sector aces particular capacity challenges. This

:56:12. > :56:17.is simply because these providers tend to take two groups of children,

:56:18. > :56:20.one in the morning and in the afternoon and a physically do not

:56:21. > :56:25.have the space to double thdir numbers. Schools have also tended to

:56:26. > :56:29.cross subsidize the findings of their early years for vision from

:56:30. > :56:34.elsewhere in their budget to ensure quality. The government has

:56:35. > :56:38.committed ?50 million of new capital funding to help with us, so the

:56:39. > :56:45.government does acknowledge that this is a problem. But the figure is

:56:46. > :56:49.unlikely to meet the need and may leave some areas without thd

:56:50. > :56:54.permission. All this Clause does is to seek to ensure that this problem

:56:55. > :57:02.does not result in a widening of the attainment gap. I will give way

:57:03. > :57:07.Does she agree that the Minhster could win his place in educ`tion by

:57:08. > :57:10.accepting this Clause? Not only will will be attainment gap, he believes

:57:11. > :57:13.everything will work, so wh`t does he have to fear from the scrutiny

:57:14. > :57:18.associated with this partictlar Clause? I think my Honorabld friend

:57:19. > :57:26.makes a good point, when... Clause? I think my Honorabld friend

:57:27. > :57:31.makes a good point, I think it would be the first in Parliament dver for

:57:32. > :57:42.a government to actually accept that a New Clause tabled by the

:57:43. > :57:46.opposition. Dot IFF says th`t we have already stumbled along way in

:57:47. > :57:52.the dark in this policy are` but it is time to stop stumbling. Stop ..

:57:53. > :57:57.Shine a light on the policy landscape and bought an effdctive

:57:58. > :58:04.route forward. If the government plans to spend ?6 billion a year on

:58:05. > :58:09.childcare, by 2019-2020, I would argue and I think they would if they

:58:10. > :58:14.were in opposition to that the risks of an ill targeted, ineffichent

:58:15. > :58:20.system should not be ignored. New Clause 2 asked that the govdrnment

:58:21. > :58:23.turns its head to narrow thd gap in early years attainment and lonitored

:58:24. > :58:29.the impact of its policy on this issue to ensure that the nation s

:58:30. > :58:37.investment is rewarded. I would also like to speak very briefly to Clause

:58:38. > :58:46.two, I think the description is probing amendment. It is attended

:58:47. > :58:52.to... In this case it is sttdent nurses. This came up at comlittee

:58:53. > :58:55.stage and I think it is worth our concern on this particular group and

:58:56. > :58:59.their needs at this time. Mdmbers will recall that last week there

:59:00. > :59:06.were thousands of student ntrses and midwives marching through London in

:59:07. > :59:17.protest of plans to stop tr`ining nursery. Many have financial

:59:18. > :59:22.obligations, and the Council requires students to have 4000 hours

:59:23. > :59:28.while studying with half of those in practice. And they work equhvalent

:59:29. > :59:32.of 37 and a half hours a wedk at least, they work nights, daxs and

:59:33. > :59:35.weekends. It is very diffictlt to get a part-time job to support

:59:36. > :59:41.dependents while training this particular group. So has thd

:59:42. > :59:49.government made any assessmdnt to the costs of extending the

:59:50. > :00:02.additional student nurses whth eligible children. My parents were

:00:03. > :00:12.both nurses and at the time, they were hospitals social clubs and that

:00:13. > :00:15.was obviously not recently, but the amendment encourages the government

:00:16. > :00:18.to work with other departments to ensure particular grids, in this

:00:19. > :00:24.case student nurses are not disproportionately disadvantaged by

:00:25. > :00:32.a combination of the governlent s policies. And with that I commend

:00:33. > :00:40.new clauses one and two to the House. It isn't Mr Deputy Speaker

:00:41. > :00:53.now. -- it is Mr Deputy Spe`ker now.

:00:54. > :01:02.Mr Deputy Speaker, thank yot for this important debate and I once

:01:03. > :01:06.again welcome the honourabld member to her position. I'm grateftl for

:01:07. > :01:10.the amendments that have tabled in the number of interesting qtestion

:01:11. > :01:14.have been raised, and I will try to deal with them in turn. I lhke to

:01:15. > :01:20.say at the outset that extending the 15 hours to 30 hours is prilarily a

:01:21. > :01:25.work incentive. That is why the first 15 hours is universal but the

:01:26. > :01:32.second 15 hours is based on economic eligibility criteria. When judging

:01:33. > :01:40.and evaluating the impact of this policy we must bear in mind the work

:01:41. > :01:44.incentive elements as well. That is correct, of course that is his

:01:45. > :01:53.intention. As you'll see in new clause one, we must assess how

:01:54. > :02:01.successful this bill is on delivering that intention. Xour

:02:02. > :02:05.right to ask the question I will be resisting the amendment, but I will

:02:06. > :02:09.go on to explain why. The m`in reason why I'm resisting is the

:02:10. > :02:19.number of evaluations that xou have asked for already underway. The are

:02:20. > :02:21.existing in important progr`mmes focused on reducing the gap of

:02:22. > :02:27.disadvantaged children and other children. I'll be spending that

:02:28. > :02:32.during my speech. I'm resisting because their are a lot of

:02:33. > :02:39.programmes already underway. In terms of new clause one. For working

:02:40. > :02:43.parents. This is extremely hmportant and I will hope that it will

:02:44. > :02:48.reassure members that we already have a strong evidence base on the

:02:49. > :02:56.impact of free education and entitlements. We know from studies

:02:57. > :03:01.that early education has a significant impact on child

:03:02. > :03:07.outcomes. Children attended high-quality provision for two to

:03:08. > :03:15.three years before school, higher development in literacy than their

:03:16. > :03:26.peers. It has also been conditioned -- commissioned a longer sttdy, the

:03:27. > :03:36.study of early education. It is following 8000 two -year-olds. It is

:03:37. > :03:40.looking at how our league education to give children the best start in

:03:41. > :03:49.life. What is important for high-quality childcare provhsion. Is

:03:50. > :03:57.being carried out by several groups for children on behalf of the

:03:58. > :04:00.department. Would my right honourable friend congratul`te court

:04:01. > :04:11.Smith were children are doing extremely well in areas, now coming

:04:12. > :04:23.12 out of 100 50s. That is ` massive improvement. You make a verx good

:04:24. > :04:31.point, the quality of early gears provision has improved.

:04:32. > :04:37.Significantly. 85% of children of earlier set ends are rated good or

:04:38. > :04:49.outstanding. The last government introduced the inspection framework

:04:50. > :04:52.which is raise the bar regular service which is been commissioned

:04:53. > :05:00.by the Department also provhdes rich data. The provider survey collects

:05:01. > :05:04.information about childcare and early gives providers including the

:05:05. > :05:09.composition and qualifications of the workforce. The parents surveyed

:05:10. > :05:16.collect data on parents use of childcare and early gives provision

:05:17. > :05:23.and their views and experiences Various groups have raised hssues of

:05:24. > :05:28.capacity of quality of provhsions. Having the best trained people in

:05:29. > :05:31.order to deliver it. They do not extend his reassurances. Thhs clause

:05:32. > :05:37.gives them the opportunity to have their achievements measured, and

:05:38. > :05:42.they say the issues are covdred elsewhere in the legislation and

:05:43. > :05:47.this bullet altogether, one big round circle which he could actually

:05:48. > :05:52.fill in overtime. Why do yot not just except the cause and the

:05:53. > :05:59.scrutiny which is offers yot. The government is going to be spending 6

:06:00. > :06:06.billion pounds a year from 2019 to 2020, the succession that whll be

:06:07. > :06:14.spending is not evaluating ht simply not. That suggestion. The

:06:15. > :06:20.legislation needs to sit into primary lunch session or not. We

:06:21. > :06:29.have got a survey going on `t the moment covering 8000 childrdn. What

:06:30. > :06:34.you are asking for is already underway. Would you 90 prim`ry

:06:35. > :06:38.legislation in order to evaluate the impact of important investmdnts to

:06:39. > :06:47.achieve a very important go`ls in this sector. The latest early gears

:06:48. > :06:52.foundation data says that an increasing portion of children are

:06:53. > :07:05.achieving a good level of development at age five. 66$

:07:06. > :07:12.compared to 52%. I learned this is more we can do to understand the

:07:13. > :07:18.impact of this extended enthtlement, however as drafted, these mhnutes

:07:19. > :07:25.are just not workable. They call for an evaluation of an impact of the

:07:26. > :07:31.Secretary of State's new duty with this act come into force. This is

:07:32. > :07:36.far to soon to make any judgement about impact this would not give

:07:37. > :07:46.adequate time to collect thd data, assess the impacts, and grotp

:07:47. > :07:58.bridges and imports -- prodtcing a port they will not meet the work...

:07:59. > :08:13.Does a Mr plan to take any steps to address the needs of unsung carers

:08:14. > :08:18.and every three and four-ye`r-old is entitled to 15 hours of childcare

:08:19. > :08:22.the question is who is entitled to the second 15 hours. Bone p`rents

:08:23. > :08:31.are entitled to it, self-employed parents are entitled to it, I will

:08:32. > :08:35.get inspiration from the box on specifically kinship carers.

:08:36. > :08:42.Everybody gets the first 15 hours if they work, the second 15 hotrs is a

:08:43. > :08:52.work incentive, if you're not working it you do not need that

:08:53. > :08:56.amount of childcare. GRUMBLHNG That is not the point, kinship

:08:57. > :09:01.carers are some of the most oppressed individuals and otr

:09:02. > :09:07.society. They need respite care They need respite care. Thex need

:09:08. > :09:17.copperheads to support more than working pairs -- parents. Under the

:09:18. > :09:21.current regime, kinship cardrs will get three hours of respite care a

:09:22. > :09:30.day for three -- five days of the week. Are you asking for more than

:09:31. > :09:40.three hours a day, and if so why was that in -- not in the Labour Party's

:09:41. > :09:45.manifesto. GRUMBLING Think you're being very gendrous, I

:09:46. > :09:49.want to echo that sentiment that kinship care is very often

:09:50. > :09:55.pensioners that are unable to work Eric nodded to make those thresholds

:09:56. > :10:02.and children are in need of additional educational support.

:10:03. > :10:09.Those individuals are setting the state huge amounts of money because

:10:10. > :10:15.they're not foster carers. Xou make a very good point again, if there is

:10:16. > :10:20.additional care needed for children of kinship carers the early gears

:10:21. > :10:27.people premium introduced bx the conservative led government to the

:10:28. > :10:32.tune of ?50 million will ensure that any additional educational needs are

:10:33. > :10:39.funded through that. That is a completely different point to how

:10:40. > :10:44.many hours of childcare thex need. Does the Minister not think it would

:10:45. > :10:50.be appropriate for children in a very young age to be in settings

:10:51. > :10:56.where there is mixed social needs. Not divided, they're not gohng to

:10:57. > :10:58.need the access to the additional funding you're talking about, they

:10:59. > :11:07.need these soccialisation in those early years settings. You'rd asking

:11:08. > :11:10.a very different question now. If there is a disadvantaged chhld who

:11:11. > :11:16.has additional needs, educational needs, and a mixed setting there is

:11:17. > :11:25.additional funding that goes towards that children. Where kinship care is

:11:26. > :11:32.formally taking parental possibility for a child they are able to access

:11:33. > :11:38.the 30 hours. The new clausd one is mainly about a evaluation of the

:11:39. > :11:43.bill. While we are committing to monitoring and collecting d`ta on

:11:44. > :11:47.the impact of the act, accessing all these issues together would not be

:11:48. > :11:54.feasible when the most effective way to evaluate this policy. Thd

:11:55. > :12:02.department has already begun to collect the data and figure out the

:12:03. > :12:07.best way of the new entitlelent We like to reassure the honour`ble

:12:08. > :12:18.members that the new entitldment will be tested before roll-out. It

:12:19. > :12:24.will start in September this year, and this important opportunhty to

:12:25. > :12:29.show that the roll-out cannhng meet the needs of working parents. We

:12:30. > :12:32.have strong interest from local authorities, and providers to obtain

:12:33. > :12:41.a part of this earlier petition -- implementation phase. When we met

:12:42. > :12:47.after the committee stage, we talked a lot about how we would implement

:12:48. > :12:51.this and make it work for p`rents of disabled children. We talked of the

:12:52. > :12:59.early implement first. We again talked about how the governlent

:13:00. > :13:10.would measure that. At it bden any progress on that's? Would t`lk to

:13:11. > :13:16.parents groups and others. Thank you, it was a pleasure to mdet with

:13:17. > :13:24.her in the department of officials to discuss how we would test for

:13:25. > :13:28.that. I can assure you that that is going to be at the heart of the

:13:29. > :13:33.early of the matters to be `nnounced soon and we will be discusshng

:13:34. > :13:40.specific research with parent groups to access care in what challenges we

:13:41. > :13:47.have in the early immature phase. More broadly, the Department for

:13:48. > :13:54.Education and HMRC has recently committed a feasibility study. How

:13:55. > :13:58.best to... Tax-free childcare and the free early education

:13:59. > :14:03.entitlement, both which werd aimed at working parents. This fe`sibility

:14:04. > :14:06.study is due to be published in February of this year and whll

:14:07. > :14:13.inform the development of an evaluation framework for about 0

:14:14. > :14:16.hours and tax-free childcard. Can I ask you what people taking ` British

:14:17. > :14:21.ship will be eligible for the 3 hours and was good was therd for the

:14:22. > :14:27.childcare sectors to support more partitions themselves? The

:14:28. > :14:33.honourable member makes an dxcellent point, the eligibility critdria is

:14:34. > :14:37.based on if you're under 25, working 16 hours a week at the minilum wage,

:14:38. > :14:44.and how much you actually e`rn. That's roughly a ?107 a week. Of

:14:45. > :14:52.course they will be entitled to the free entitlement. I do agred with

:14:53. > :14:55.his point that he early your sector is one that can benefit frol the

:14:56. > :15:07.huge investment of a British is that this government is making. The

:15:08. > :15:14.amendments... Figure forgivhng way, can the apartments make surd that

:15:15. > :15:19.those parents who decide th`t getting back to work is mord

:15:20. > :15:26.important for them rather than staying home for those earlx years

:15:27. > :15:35.neither feel penalised or ostracized by the government. My consthtuents

:15:36. > :15:46.say that they feel obligated to take deposition. You make a good point at

:15:47. > :15:49.a concert of some parents, the first 15 hours are universal, it hs

:15:50. > :15:53.voluntary. Parents are not have to take it. The last government was

:15:54. > :16:00.very mindful of supporting parents who wanted, or made the chohce to do

:16:01. > :16:04.something else, we have a t`x allowance to support those parents.

:16:05. > :16:13.The evidence says that it is helpful to it turned -- attend an e`rlier

:16:14. > :16:17.school. That is why it the government is doing is that those

:16:18. > :16:26.children do not work out -- missed out. It is right that the government

:16:27. > :16:37.response to the cry from thdse parents that childcare is to

:16:38. > :16:42.expensive. What does Bill is doing is enabling more parents to fulfil

:16:43. > :16:48.the aspirations to work is `ctually helping narrow the very

:16:49. > :16:55.Mr Deputy Speaker of the Minister is making quite a bold assertion bear

:16:56. > :17:03.that the impact of this measure he does not know that his bill will

:17:04. > :17:07.narrow the gap. He does not know that the most disadvantaged children

:17:08. > :17:15.will be able to benefit frol 15 hours because they will not. Mr

:17:16. > :17:24.Deputy Speaker, the gap is `lready being narrowed. If you look at the

:17:25. > :17:28.early profile data, the gap is being narrowed there. Economicallx,

:17:29. > :17:33.enabling more parents to work if they want to is a positive thing for

:17:34. > :17:42.us to do for the growth of our economy. We do know in terms of the

:17:43. > :17:46.funding however, funding has been touched on a number of times, not

:17:47. > :17:53.only is this government invdsting a record amount, more than anx other

:17:54. > :17:56.previous government in the darly entitlement, and childcare lore

:17:57. > :18:01.broadly, there are inefficidncies in the system. For example, not all the

:18:02. > :18:04.money allocated is district Orr distributed early to local

:18:05. > :18:13.authorities and not all the money reaches the front line. That is why

:18:14. > :18:18.will be engaging a national funding formula in the early years of the

:18:19. > :18:21.funding is transparently and managed to need and fairly distributed

:18:22. > :18:29.between different providers in different parts of the country. Can

:18:30. > :18:34.I just well combed that the funding increase announcement. It is very

:18:35. > :18:38.important as a reassuring mdssage for existing providers who do

:18:39. > :18:45.sometimes have concerns abott what it cost to make and provide these

:18:46. > :18:48.places. Can I urge the Minister to press local authorities to pass as

:18:49. > :18:54.much as possible onto the front line and to review their own funding

:18:55. > :18:58.formulas where appropriate? My Honorable friend makes an excellent

:18:59. > :19:03.point. If central government makes the funding available but wd do not

:19:04. > :19:06.have an efficient way of distributing the money to actual

:19:07. > :19:08.providers at the front line, we should not be surprised if those

:19:09. > :19:13.providers then turn around `nd say that they are not seeing thd

:19:14. > :19:18.increased funding, which is why the increased funding sits alongside the

:19:19. > :19:22.packager forums to make surd that money does reach the from lhne to

:19:23. > :19:30.the providers that are delivering high-quality places for pardnts The

:19:31. > :19:35.member opposite did touch the attainment gap so I want to turn to

:19:36. > :19:38.the New Clause to very briefly. That important issue of attainment and

:19:39. > :19:43.development. Remy reassure Honorable members that this government wants

:19:44. > :19:47.all children to have the best possible start in life and the

:19:48. > :19:52.support that enables them to achieve their potential. We want to hide

:19:53. > :19:56.quality education for children where ever they live and whatever their

:19:57. > :20:05.background in the early years framework sets the standard that all

:20:06. > :20:07.early years providers must leet so that all children are kept healthy

:20:08. > :20:13.and save. They recognise th`t children develop learning

:20:14. > :20:17.differently at different rates. It is a framework that seeks to provide

:20:18. > :20:26.quality and consistency to lake sure that every child makes good progress

:20:27. > :20:29.in that the child is left bdhind. More children are achieving a good

:20:30. > :20:35.level of development and thdy have been... For high-quality chhld care

:20:36. > :20:40.can help to mitigate the risk of falling behind early. For children

:20:41. > :20:44.with free school meals to eligibility there has been ` six

:20:45. > :20:48.percentage point increase in the number of children who achidve a

:20:49. > :20:54.good level of development compared to 2014. This is the acquittal of

:20:55. > :20:57.the linen of extra 5800 children with free school meal eligibility

:20:58. > :21:02.achieving a good level of development. That is somethhng that

:21:03. > :21:06.the whole house should welcome. Furthermore, the gender gap has also

:21:07. > :21:12.continued to narrow while ghrls continue to outperform boys, the gap

:21:13. > :21:20.is narrowing. Produced from 60. % in 2014 to 15 point six percentage

:21:21. > :21:26.points in 2015. -- 16.3. Thdy are also benefiting from our policy

:21:27. > :21:30.They must make sure that arrangements are put in place bird

:21:31. > :21:35.shoulder with disabilities `nd provide funding and places `nd have

:21:36. > :21:40.regard to BS EN code of practice. We will of course meet Arden dtties in

:21:41. > :21:55.the equality act of 2010. Finally, Mr Deputy Speaker, as far

:21:56. > :21:58.as New Clause one and two are concerned, I would like to touch

:21:59. > :22:03.briefly on the qualification levels of the early years work for. Which

:22:04. > :22:10.has risen in recent years, continue this increase is the key in the

:22:11. > :22:18.government strategy. These `re equivalent to a level stand`rd in

:22:19. > :22:20.early years teacher training. As far as the evaluation of this is

:22:21. > :22:25.concerned I hope that I havd reassure the House that there is

:22:26. > :22:29.already a substantial amount of work going on to evaluate all our

:22:30. > :22:38.policies in the early education area. But also is a two-year study,

:22:39. > :22:43.as I... If she was listening to me then cantering from a sedentary

:22:44. > :22:48.position. I discussed in detail where we followed 8000 children from

:22:49. > :22:51.the age of two and will be publishing the conclusions of that.

:22:52. > :22:58.The Honorable member also touched on student nurses and I will ttrn to

:22:59. > :23:00.that point Mr Deputy Speaker. The eligibility for the free

:23:01. > :23:05.entitlement. The current funding system is that two out of every

:23:06. > :23:11.three people who want to become a nurse are not accepted for training.

:23:12. > :23:14.Bad to turn down 37,000 nursing applications, meaning the NHS is

:23:15. > :23:27.suffering from a limited supply of and have to rely on oversee workers

:23:28. > :23:31.and expensive agency nurses. As I outlined in my letter to thd

:23:32. > :23:34.Honorable member for West Dtrham, the Department of health in the

:23:35. > :23:37.Department of business innovation and skills plans to run a

:23:38. > :23:41.consultation on the detail of the government's performs earlidr this

:23:42. > :23:47.year. Specifically in relathon to the support of childcare costs from

:23:48. > :23:51.2017 the student support regulations, student nurses can be

:23:52. > :23:59.reimbursed for up to 85% thdir childcare costs Oppy up to ` maximum

:24:00. > :24:04.of ?155 a week where they h`ve one child and up to ?266 a week when

:24:05. > :24:10.they have two children. The child must be under 15 years of age or

:24:11. > :24:16.under 17 years of age, wherd the child has special education needs.

:24:17. > :24:24.In addition students may also have them parent learning allowance,

:24:25. > :24:32.which recognise extra cost that a student would need to support

:24:33. > :24:38.children whilst training. Aside from support provisions, all pardnt

:24:39. > :24:43.students command and will continue to benefit from the existing 15

:24:44. > :24:48.hours of free early education for all three and four-year-old. This is

:24:49. > :24:55.a universal entitlement, regardless of whether parents are in work were

:24:56. > :25:00.not. Parents and student nurses may be eligible of 15 hours of dducation

:25:01. > :25:04.of two-year-old children, ddpendent or other circumstances. I hope I

:25:05. > :25:08.have reassure the House that although student nurses do not

:25:09. > :25:13.qualify for the second 15 hours other student support progr`mmes

:25:14. > :25:20.which reimburse them to the tune of 75% of the childcare costs does

:25:21. > :25:29.achieve the same objective of this amendment. In addition, for those...

:25:30. > :25:36.Those who are entitled to any sort of tax credit would get support that

:25:37. > :25:43.way. I hope these arguments reassure members that we care about robust

:25:44. > :25:49.evaluation of policies and dvaluate this policy in this is inappropriate

:25:50. > :25:56.in the timescales for this amendment. This government but this

:25:57. > :26:00.bill in the Queen's Speech, the first childcare bill in a Qteen s

:26:01. > :26:03.Speech and we are determined to get this right and that is why we have

:26:04. > :26:07.put evaluation at the heart of what we are doing. I do not belidve that

:26:08. > :26:11.putting it on the face of this bill in the way that it has been drafted

:26:12. > :26:18.for a year after world actu`lly works. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker.

:26:19. > :26:23.I fear that when I try to stand up before to speak I fell over, and I

:26:24. > :26:36.am not sure those speakers saw me. As I assure everybody... My heel got

:26:37. > :26:42.caught on my back. I stand to talk to the amendment in my name, which

:26:43. > :26:48.is the specifically around domestic violence victims and I would like to

:26:49. > :26:52.paper credit to my Honorabld friend rum Great Grimsby for finding

:26:53. > :26:57.another vulnerable group and kinship carers who potentially are not being

:26:58. > :27:02.well met by this bill. I will put them in a similar category of the

:27:03. > :27:05.people I am about to talk to and I think she made interesting points

:27:06. > :27:09.which I hope the Minister whll take away and try to understand what it

:27:10. > :27:13.is like for senior citizens taking on children who have been through

:27:14. > :27:18.very dramatic circumstances. The purpose of this amendment I tabled

:27:19. > :27:22.is to ask the government to once again look at the possibility of

:27:23. > :27:29.exempting those link domesthc violence from the 16 hour elployment

:27:30. > :27:36.threshold. As someone with xears of experience working on this bill I

:27:37. > :27:41.know one of the biggest barriers seeking recovery is access to

:27:42. > :27:47.childcare. It is hard to engage in trauma counsel for the repe`ted

:27:48. > :27:50.rapes you suffered with a for your old. When women flee their homes and

:27:51. > :27:55.seek refuge for them and thdir children, they are very oftdn forced

:27:56. > :28:03.to give up their jobs as well. This is usually brought about in an anon

:28:04. > :28:09.normal lead in the benefit system. -- anomaly. To give up their home

:28:10. > :28:13.and surroundings, they are forced out of work for a period of time as

:28:14. > :28:18.it becomes logistically tot`lly impossible. A woman to my strgery a

:28:19. > :28:22.few weeks ago came to me living in a car, when her children staydd and

:28:23. > :28:29.relatives floors had to givd up her job as a care worker once wd were

:28:30. > :28:34.able to place her in refuge. Her changeable ships were impossible to

:28:35. > :28:38.maintain as a single parent living in refuge. I asked everyone on the

:28:39. > :28:45.benches opposite to imagine for a second, leaving all of your

:28:46. > :28:49.belongings. Shutting the door on the homes. Giving up their jobs, and

:28:50. > :28:54.their financial security. Most women I have met did this for the sake of

:28:55. > :28:57.their children. But imagine the effect that would have on a

:28:58. > :29:01.three-year-old. There are only so many times that you can't convince

:29:02. > :29:04.them that it is a big adventure before the difficult realitx sets

:29:05. > :29:11.in. Now this bill will also tell these children that they ard going

:29:12. > :29:18.to lose their place in nursdry to. This might be the only conshstency

:29:19. > :29:22.left in their chaotic lives. Or I can see there is some confusion on

:29:23. > :29:28.the benches opposite that if a woman loses of home and her job and is not

:29:29. > :29:33.working 16 hours, she loses the place in nursery that she h`d for

:29:34. > :29:44.her children. Just to clear that up. Would you like to intervene? You

:29:45. > :29:50.seem confused. All I ask... I give way to the Minister. The Honorable

:29:51. > :29:53.member raise this point in committee which we debated extensivelx and I

:29:54. > :30:00.promise to write to her abott the needs of women leaving refuge. I can

:30:01. > :30:08.give assurance that looking at it there are firstly, putting on a

:30:09. > :30:12.record that there is extra support going to women in this traghc

:30:13. > :30:15.situation. In terms of childcare they will get the first 15 hours for

:30:16. > :30:20.the three and for your old `s everyone does. If they were in Tiger

:30:21. > :30:24.iMac entitled to the extenddd entitlement something as a result of

:30:25. > :30:30.this their children had to leave childcare there is a grace period of

:30:31. > :30:34.three months which I discussed. I am happy to look into how we c`n extend

:30:35. > :30:41.the grace period for this p`rticular group, given the very persu`sive

:30:42. > :30:52.case that she has made. I al delighted for the minister's

:30:53. > :31:02.willingness... Commitment, ` firm commitment from the benches opposite

:31:03. > :31:07.to do that. What I would sax on the matter is, what I was coming on to

:31:08. > :31:11.say, I recognise that the three-month grace period whhch I

:31:12. > :31:14.welcome, however the fact rdmains that these children will have to

:31:15. > :31:16.give up their lace at the end, but now I do not have to say th`t

:31:17. > :31:21.anymore because the Minister has made that commitment. And h`s

:31:22. > :31:27.recognised that it is frankly laughable that a woman escaping

:31:28. > :31:32.violence would be back to another property, gainfully employed after

:31:33. > :31:36.just three months. Unfortun`tely the reducing availability of social

:31:37. > :31:40.housing to families to move onto is that many woman and children live in

:31:41. > :31:46.refuge for much longer than months and also cuts if local authority

:31:47. > :31:50.spending means that social funds to help these families have lilited

:31:51. > :31:54.women to where they can and cannot move across local authority

:31:55. > :31:58.boundaries and leaves them stuck in supported accommodations, even if

:31:59. > :32:04.they were ready and seek to move on. So these children need conshstency.

:32:05. > :32:09.And deserve it. And I welcoled him and his intervention for saxing that

:32:10. > :32:12.he will give it. I wholeheartedly agree with the point that these

:32:13. > :32:16.children need consistency and support. And I will extend the

:32:17. > :32:21.commitment I made to meet up with her to discuss how we can consult on

:32:22. > :32:29.that grace period and get hdr input on how we do so from this p`rticular

:32:30. > :32:32.group. I was going to go on to say that the education team, whdre other

:32:33. > :32:38.teams that the Minister has me get the Mike mentioned and other

:32:39. > :32:43.departments and his governmdnt have shown a real clear commitment to

:32:44. > :32:49.taking their role in the fight against domestic violence. @nd I

:32:50. > :32:55.have to say, for example with the constant ramblings over PHS in and

:32:56. > :33:00.education, I have felt until now that education departments role in

:33:01. > :33:03.this could potentially be ddscribed as willful, however I am delighted

:33:04. > :33:08.to say that the Minister has proven me wrong on this and I will be

:33:09. > :33:12.delighted to meet with them and talk to him as somebody with masses of

:33:13. > :33:16.experience on how it will actually work in practice and what the

:33:17. > :33:29.practice looks like. So I whll say no more on the matter and think the

:33:30. > :33:37.Minister for his... Moving formerly Mr Speaker? The question if Clause

:33:38. > :34:27.one should be read a second time? Clear the lobbies!

:34:28. > :41:52.The question is if it will be you read a second time,?

:41:53. > :46:08.Order, order! The eyes to the right 188 the nose to the left 263. The

:46:09. > :46:17.ayes 188, the noes 263. The noes habit, the noes habit. A lock.

:46:18. > :46:28.We now come to New Clause 2 to be moved formally. The as many in that

:46:29. > :46:35.opinion say it ayes, the contrary noes. The ability.

:46:36. > :48:42.The question is that New Cl`use to be read a second time. On the

:48:43. > :54:35.contrary noes. For the eyes Mac Tell us for the

:54:36. > :57:27.Order, order! The ayes into the right 195, the noes to the left 265.

:57:28. > :57:37.The ayes to the right 185, the noes to the left 265. So the noes habit.

:57:38. > :57:42.Unlock. Order. Consideration completed. I will now suspend the

:57:43. > :57:47.House for about five minutes in order to make a decision about

:57:48. > :57:54.certification. The division bells will be wrong to minutes before the

:57:55. > :57:57.House resumes. Following my certification, the government will

:57:58. > :58:01.be tabling the appropriate consent motion copies of which will be

:58:02. > :58:03.available shortly in the bo`t office and will be distributed by

:58:04. > :03:05.doorkeepers. Order. Order. Order. I can now inform the

:03:06. > :03:11.House of my decision about this For the purposes of standing order

:03:12. > :03:15.number 83 L, I have certifidd that clauses three and five of the bill

:03:16. > :03:21.relate exclusively to England on matters within devolved leghslative

:03:22. > :03:30.competence. As defined in standing order number 83 J. For the purposes

:03:31. > :03:33.of standing order number 83 L, subsection number four, I h`ve

:03:34. > :03:39.certified that amendment three -clause to made to the bill in

:03:40. > :03:44.committee which is now clause one subsection five Jamie Bell `s

:03:45. > :03:49.amended, relates to England. Hobbies of my certificate are avail`ble in

:03:50. > :03:55.the vote office. Understandhng order number 83 M, a contempt mothon is

:03:56. > :04:01.therefore required for the bill to proceed. Does the minister hntend to

:04:02. > :04:12.move the consent motion? Gr`teful to the Minister for the requishte nod.

:04:13. > :04:16.LAUGHTER I am sure the minister does know

:04:17. > :04:21.what he is agreeing to. I'm quite sure the honourable gentlem`n knows

:04:22. > :04:26.to what he is agreeing. That was a useful lead in to another nod which

:04:27. > :04:31.the minister has graciously provided. The house shall forthwith

:04:32. > :04:57.resolve itself into the leghslative grant committee England. Order.

:04:58. > :05:04.Order. I remind the House that although all members may spdak only

:05:05. > :05:07.members representing constituencies in England may vote on the consent

:05:08. > :05:17.motion. I call the minister to move consent motion. Formally. The

:05:18. > :05:21.question is that legislativd grant committee consents to clausds three

:05:22. > :05:27.under... committee consents to clausds three

:05:28. > :05:33.Made in the bill committee. Nobody wishes to speak. I remind the

:05:34. > :05:37.honourable members of the qtestion that the newsletter grant committee

:05:38. > :05:40.of England consists of thred and five and amendment three of costume

:05:41. > :06:08.made to the bill in the comlittee. As many can say I. The Ayes have it.

:06:09. > :06:19.Third reading. The legislathve grant committee England has consented to

:06:20. > :06:21.the certified clauses of and the certified amendment to the childcare

:06:22. > :06:42.bill clause. Secretary of State. Mr Deputy

:06:43. > :06:48.Speaker thank you very much indeed for this. I beg to move that this

:06:49. > :06:52.bill be now read a third tile. This bill clearly demonstrates the

:06:53. > :06:56.government's commitment to supporting working families. We

:06:57. > :07:00.recognise the barriers that the cost of childcare can post to parents who

:07:01. > :07:03.want to work and this bill seeks to tackle them. But offering working

:07:04. > :07:07.parents and unprecedented 30 hours of free child care this bill will

:07:08. > :07:10.give mothers and fathers across the country real choice about how they

:07:11. > :07:16.balance raising their children with working life. For too long childcare

:07:17. > :07:23.costs often outweigh the gahns of returning to work or working more

:07:24. > :07:28.hours. And report argued today I get this bill could be transforlational

:07:29. > :07:31.in the lives of working famhlies. Let me think the opposition for

:07:32. > :07:36.their engagement on this bill and the support of their governlent to

:07:37. > :07:39.implement our manifesto comlitment. I and my honourable friend the

:07:40. > :07:43.Minister for childcare found the debate at report stage both helpful

:07:44. > :07:47.and interesting. I understand the intention behind the amendmdnts is

:07:48. > :07:50.that this afternoon and while I share the sentiment I hope that

:07:51. > :07:52.honourable members will be `ssured that my department and others will

:07:53. > :07:56.be managing these issues through other legislation such as the

:07:57. > :08:01.equality act and the childrdn and families act as well as the rather

:08:02. > :08:07.practice and policy. -- othdr practice and policy. FAQ Mr Deputy

:08:08. > :08:11.Speaker. I do appreciate thd secretary of state allowing me to

:08:12. > :08:16.intervene. I am very curious because we have just had the consent motion

:08:17. > :08:19.passed that this is an exquhsitely English measure. However I would

:08:20. > :08:25.like the Secretary of State to take a moment to explain what is in the

:08:26. > :08:30.government's mind clause ond and paragraph eight where the Sdcretary

:08:31. > :08:33.of State made my regulations may prison about the circumstances in

:08:34. > :08:38.which a child is or is not hn England for the purposes of this

:08:39. > :08:41.section. If the child were `ctually in Northern Ireland and this Bill

:08:42. > :08:48.applied to them, surely it would not be exclusively English only. Can I

:08:49. > :08:54.thank the honourable Lady vdry much indeed. I think this is a m`tter for

:08:55. > :09:02.the authorities. I will happily write to her but the speaker has

:09:03. > :09:08.certified that the bill applies to England. My understanding is that

:09:09. > :09:10.this is not a devolved mattdr but I am very happy to write to the

:09:11. > :09:15.honourable way to provide hdr with any clarity that she might require.

:09:16. > :09:25.Mr Deputy Speaker after opposition Lords attempts to delay this bill,

:09:26. > :09:30.the party opposite, very brhefly but I wanted make purpose on thd

:09:31. > :09:34.substance of this bill. With the greatest respect this as a latter of

:09:35. > :09:38.substance in this particular bill. I emphasise that I am not in `ny way

:09:39. > :09:41.challenging the certification by the speaker. The speaker actually

:09:42. > :09:48.certified clauses three and five of the bill. That were exquisitely

:09:49. > :10:00.English, this was a question about clause one. My understanding is that

:10:01. > :10:03.clauses 1-5 are related to Dngland only and I am happy to writd to the

:10:04. > :10:06.honourable Lady to clarify but this is a matter for the speaker that he

:10:07. > :10:13.has certified as applying to England. As I was saying, after we

:10:14. > :10:18.had a dense to delay the bill I am glad the them is apparent to want to

:10:19. > :10:21.see it become law and have opportunity to access a 30 hours

:10:22. > :10:24.entitlement without delay. H am pleased that amendment to clause one

:10:25. > :10:29.which could have said that the implementation by the gas bx months

:10:30. > :10:32.have now been removed. The honourable Lady is on the rdcord as

:10:33. > :10:35.saying she wants to the hour childcare policies become a reality

:10:36. > :10:38.so I hope she is pleased to see the progress made with the bill and the

:10:39. > :10:44.speedy implementation which is due to benefit 390,000 three and

:10:45. > :10:47.four-year-olds. The importance and impact of quality early education

:10:48. > :10:51.and childcare is beyond dispute which is why my party and the

:10:52. > :10:55.government but it at the he`rt of our agenda for government over the

:10:56. > :10:59.past five years. In that tile we have introduced to be two-ydar-old

:11:00. > :11:02.offer, supporting over 157,000 two-year-old from does it m`nage

:11:03. > :11:06.backgrounds to access 15 hotrs a week of polity or early education.

:11:07. > :11:10.We have extended the universal pre-and four-year-old entitlement

:11:11. > :11:15.from 12 hours-15 hours with 96% of three and 4 euros now taking up the

:11:16. > :11:19.plate. We have entered is the early years people premium to target

:11:20. > :11:21.additional resources of children from disadvantaged background. We

:11:22. > :11:25.have legislated for tax fred child care under which up to 2 million

:11:26. > :11:30.working families can benefit by up to ?2000 per child per year. And we

:11:31. > :11:35.have increased the direct stpport for childcare cost under Unhversal

:11:36. > :11:39.credit from 70%-85% from April this year. And now Mr Deputy Spe`ker we

:11:40. > :11:42.are going even further by doubling the 15 hours entitlement for working

:11:43. > :11:47.parents. This represents a substantial commitment to childcare

:11:48. > :11:50.by this government. And this commitment is backed up by the

:11:51. > :11:54.investment and funding that A.B Quires. As my right honourable

:11:55. > :11:58.friend template announced and I conference rate afterwards `t the

:11:59. > :12:04.second reading debate we will be investing over one Iliad potnds more

:12:05. > :12:08.per year -- ?1 billion to ftnd the free entitlements. This includes

:12:09. > :12:11.?300 million for a signific`nt increase in the hourly rate paid to

:12:12. > :12:13.providers, delivering on thd commitment the prime ministdr made

:12:14. > :12:18.during these several election campaign. These funding levdls were

:12:19. > :12:22.directly informed by the review of the cost of childcare published on

:12:23. > :12:26.the 25th of November last ydar - or the house they will agree on this

:12:27. > :12:29.significant piece of resorts and a sound evidence base on which to

:12:30. > :12:34.ensure that the childcare m`rket is properly funded. It is worth

:12:35. > :12:37.reiterating to the house th`t we have been able to make this extra

:12:38. > :12:40.investment only because of the difficult decisions we have taken

:12:41. > :12:45.elsewhere in government as part of our long-term economic plan. A

:12:46. > :12:50.further reminder that we can only have strong public services if we

:12:51. > :12:59.have the strong economy will stop rapid bigger cheer this timd. -

:13:00. > :13:04.perhaps a bigger cheer. The next page of our funding reforms will be

:13:05. > :13:07.to ensure that funding is bding allocated fairly across the country

:13:08. > :13:13.and as much as possible as we reached childcare providers on the

:13:14. > :13:15.front lines. I am grateful to my right honourable friend. I wonder if

:13:16. > :13:18.she agrees with me that one of the greatest achievements of thd last

:13:19. > :13:20.five years has been to reduce the number of work list households

:13:21. > :13:27.because of the scarring long-term negative effect that research shows

:13:28. > :13:30.that has on children. This hs another step to build on thd already

:13:31. > :13:33.strong foundations put in place to make sure that we have your children

:13:34. > :13:37.brought up in work without sold with all the negative results with

:13:38. > :13:43.follow. Can I thank my onbo`rd friend, the former chairman of the

:13:44. > :13:47.education select committee. He is absolutely right. There are at least

:13:48. > :13:51.300,000 fewer children living in work without sold this year than

:13:52. > :13:54.there were in 2010. I know from a conversation in my own constituency

:13:55. > :13:59.on Friday with the local coordinator for those who might be a goodie from

:14:00. > :14:03.school just how much he was saying the impact of being a parent or

:14:04. > :14:08.parents getting up and going out to work has on children and thd work

:14:09. > :14:13.ethic and their ability to think about their work and career choices

:14:14. > :14:18.for the future has. We'll bd consulting on proposals abott the

:14:19. > :14:22.early years funding formula in due course. We are lucky to havd in this

:14:23. > :14:28.country a thriving childcard market which is well placed to beghn to

:14:29. > :14:31.delivering the 30 hours enthtlement. This market shows with the

:14:32. > :14:34.introduction of two-year-old offer a canned response quickly and

:14:35. > :14:37.effectively to deliver incrdased places and to meet parental demand.

:14:38. > :14:41.That is why we have felt able to bring forward by a year the

:14:42. > :14:45.introduction of the extended entitlement or early testing a

:14:46. > :14:48.series of areas. However we are not complacent about assuring there are

:14:49. > :14:51.sufficient places available and are taking further steps to build

:14:52. > :14:55.capacity. This includes reading nursery provision as part of the new

:14:56. > :14:58.preschools, and an addition`l ? 0 million in capital funding to

:14:59. > :15:02.support the creation of early years laces for the free entitlemdnt. We

:15:03. > :15:05.are confident that capital investment combined with an

:15:06. > :15:07.attractive increase rate to providers will also enable them to

:15:08. > :15:12.seek further investment to dxpand their offer. We are committdd to

:15:13. > :15:15.ensuring that the free entitlements are flexible and can be accdssed in

:15:16. > :15:19.a way that fits with parents working patterns. The early implementation

:15:20. > :15:22.areas will wait doing hurts different and diverse types of

:15:23. > :15:26.providers to enter the markdt and will and to devise innovative

:15:27. > :15:30.approaches to divide likability in terms of the type and timing of

:15:31. > :15:34.childcare on offer. Alongside this we are consulting on new whhte to

:15:35. > :15:36.request for parents. This rhght will allow parents to request th`t their

:15:37. > :15:41.children school make their premise is available for providers to offer

:15:42. > :15:44.childcare. This will not only ensure parents who already have chhldren of

:15:45. > :15:46.school is to not have to move their children between different places

:15:47. > :15:51.but will also lead to an increase in the number of childcare places on

:15:52. > :15:54.offer. Throughout the passage of the bill, due to the house and the other

:15:55. > :15:57.place that have been lengthx discussions quite rightly about the

:15:58. > :16:02.issues which matter most to parents. Likability, quality and accdss for

:16:03. > :16:05.children with national educ`tional needs and disability -- lik`bility.

:16:06. > :16:10.I am clear that this bill and because went well out of thd

:16:11. > :16:12.extended entitlement will bd better for that scrutiny. Mr Deputx Speaker

:16:13. > :16:15.Parliament Square knee will not end with this bill as agreed at

:16:16. > :16:18.committee stage on the regulations made to support the 30 hour -- 0

:16:19. > :16:21.hours will be debated and approved by both houses on their first used

:16:22. > :16:26.ahead of early implementation later this year. I had a bringing the

:16:27. > :16:30.regulations back to parliamdnt my department who won a full

:16:31. > :16:33.consultation on the regulathons and statutory guidance from the

:16:34. > :16:36.authorities. I look forward to engaging with providers, local

:16:37. > :16:39.parties and parents over thhs period so we can be absolutely certain we

:16:40. > :16:43.are getting it right and ensure parents get what they need from this

:16:44. > :16:47.offer. Before I conclude, ldt me thank all members of the hotse to

:16:48. > :16:51.serve on the bill committee and all those who provided written dvidence.

:16:52. > :16:57.I would also like to take this opportunity to put on the rdcord my

:16:58. > :17:00.thanks to my honourable fridnd for his steering of the bill through

:17:01. > :17:06.this house and his work on the childcare task force to prepare for

:17:07. > :17:09.implementation. Can I also Bank official in my department and the

:17:10. > :17:15.house for that support. As H said when I set up this bill starts with

:17:16. > :17:18.one goal, to help working f`milies with the cost of childcare. I hope

:17:19. > :17:21.the bill will now move quickly on to statue books so that early

:17:22. > :17:24.implementation of 30 hours free childcare can begin and pardnts

:17:25. > :17:31.across the country can start realising the benefits of this

:17:32. > :17:37.significant offer. The question is that the bill now be read a third

:17:38. > :17:42.time. I rise today in support of this bill at third reading. The

:17:43. > :17:49.first of all welcome my honourable friend the member for darlings into

:17:50. > :17:52.her new role as our early ydars spokesperson. She is a passhonate

:17:53. > :17:56.campaigner for social and mobility would have been a really a job

:17:57. > :18:01.during the report states today raising a number of important issues

:18:02. > :18:05.pay tribute to my honourabld friend pay tribute to my honourabld friend

:18:06. > :18:12.the member for Northwest door him display sits up. I would like to a

:18:13. > :18:15.quick to her because she did a fantastic job on the bill dtring

:18:16. > :18:18.committee stage. She will bd missed but goes on to fight a great cause

:18:19. > :18:24.for this country. On this shde of the house we have long camp`igned

:18:25. > :18:27.for and supported more investment in childcare. Childcare is an

:18:28. > :18:30.investment in our economic success. More childcare means more

:18:31. > :18:34.opportunities for families `nd they begin to reduce the growing gender

:18:35. > :18:39.pay gap. Better childcare c`n also do a great deal to give children,

:18:40. > :18:45.all children a better start in life. Far too many women are still priced

:18:46. > :18:49.out of work are the high cost of childcare, particularly those on low

:18:50. > :18:52.and middle incomes. Childcare can help women into work and work more

:18:53. > :18:55.hours, that is why we when we were in government introduced thd

:18:56. > :19:01.original 12.5 hours three childcare for all three and four-year,olds. We

:19:02. > :19:04.created the sure start centres, massively extended maternitx leave

:19:05. > :19:10.and injured his paternity ldave and developed the first and onlx 10 year

:19:11. > :19:16.childcare strategy. But our introduction of the free early years

:19:17. > :19:19.was designed to help support child development and enable thosd with

:19:20. > :19:24.disadvantages to attend high-quality early years settlement in an attempt

:19:25. > :19:27.to close the school readiness gap which is the president by the age of

:19:28. > :19:30.five. Aside from the specifhc concerns we have with some of the

:19:31. > :19:33.deliverability of this game which I will come unto there is a l`rge

:19:34. > :19:36.problem with the government's approach to childcare given the

:19:37. > :19:41.widening attaining gap in children of three woman school meals and

:19:42. > :19:45.their peers. The government seems only focus on the maternal

:19:46. > :19:49.employment needs of childcare while having no vision or action plan for

:19:50. > :19:53.narrowing the gap. My friend the member for darlings and madd a

:19:54. > :19:56.powerful case earlier this on recommendations of the soci`l

:19:57. > :19:59.mobility commission for a comprehensive joined up approach to

:20:00. > :20:03.the early years to address this issue. Of course Mr Deputy Speaker

:20:04. > :20:07.it is the job of opposition to scrutinize government plans and to

:20:08. > :20:10.try to make them better. Thd government has not really lhstened

:20:11. > :20:13.to many of the points we have raised in both houses so I will give it one

:20:14. > :20:17.last go while setting out the measures by which we will jtdge the

:20:18. > :20:20.success or otherwise of this game. The detail of this policy and the

:20:21. > :20:28.government's legislated approach has not been the best. Ministers have

:20:29. > :20:32.failed to give us confidencd in compared to the how common hs that

:20:33. > :20:35.their plan to extend the frde hours is liveable sustainable and

:20:36. > :20:39.affordable. Even now so manx months since it was announced we are none

:20:40. > :20:41.the wiser on how these after-hours and the necessary expansion of

:20:42. > :20:48.places will be found funded and facilitated. A key concern of this

:20:49. > :20:53.policy is whether it is adepuately funded. There are three key funding

:20:54. > :20:56.issues as I see them. Whethdr the overall budget is sufficient.

:20:57. > :21:01.Whether the new hourly rate is sustainable and the scaling back of

:21:02. > :21:05.the eligibility criteria. Bdfore the last election, the early ye`rs that

:21:06. > :21:11.our plans to extend free chhldcare from the current 15 hours would cost

:21:12. > :21:17.an additional $1.5 billion. That's pounds. Yet there pledged L`coste

:21:18. > :21:21.that I just 350 million in their manifesto. This was then revised to

:21:22. > :21:25.650 million wants ministers returned to the department. What it believes

:21:26. > :21:30.a massive funding shortfall which the IP BR has identified as 1

:21:31. > :21:36.billion pounds. I think this gives a whole new meaning to back at the

:21:37. > :21:39.backpack it all is he making which I hope they will give us some

:21:40. > :21:43.reassurance on. During the @utumn Statement and ask her the mhllion

:21:44. > :21:47.pounds was allocated to extdnd to increase the hourly wage pahd to

:21:48. > :21:51.providers by 30p. Less than half of which will go on the new offer. I do

:21:52. > :21:55.welcome this, but even with this review independent analysis for the

:21:56. > :22:00.preschool learning alliance now shows there is still a ?450 million

:22:01. > :22:04.shortfall over the course of this Parliament for providers in meeting

:22:05. > :22:08.this offer. I will say more of the consequences of this in a moment. It

:22:09. > :22:11.seems to me that the way thd government has made all these

:22:12. > :22:15.figures add up is by flashing eligibility. We now know th`t one in

:22:16. > :22:18.three families promised mord childcare at the election whll not

:22:19. > :22:24.get it. Ministers had said that all families in work would gain an extra

:22:25. > :22:29.15 hours of childcare if thdy had three and 4 euros. There orhginal is

:22:30. > :22:35.believed that this would be 630 003 and four-year-old out of thhs figure

:22:36. > :22:38.has now been slashed to 390,000 Of course parents owning over 000

:22:39. > :22:41.thousand pounds a year to not need extra help with childcare and we

:22:42. > :22:46.agree is right to reduce thd eligibility at the top and. However,

:22:47. > :22:49.at the bottom end of the pax scale this is not the case in the

:22:50. > :22:54.government has now taken thhs opera waveform many lobe paying f`milies

:22:55. > :23:00.-- this offer away from any low paid families. Both parents or a lone

:23:01. > :23:04.parent need to work the equhvalent of 16 hours a week at the mhnimum

:23:05. > :23:07.wage to qualify. This means that those on low income jobs ard more

:23:08. > :23:12.likely to lose out on these eligibility rules. For many parents,

:23:13. > :23:18.on the edge of the labour m`rket short hours, part-time, zero hours

:23:19. > :23:22.are often the dot the government have had these parent out and

:23:23. > :23:26.damaged the scheme as a work incentive for them. For exalple an

:23:27. > :23:29.investment banker or lawyer would earn eligibility for these dxtra

:23:30. > :23:32.hours for working one day a week or one hour a week in some casds

:23:33. > :23:36.whereby somebody on the Nathonal Minimum Wage would have to work for

:23:37. > :23:40.16 hours. There is an inherdnt unfairness in this. Strivers will be

:23:41. > :23:45.working longer to get free childcare at and people higher up the incomes

:23:46. > :23:48.Gail and this is not somethhng members opposite should be proud of.

:23:49. > :23:55.-- incomes higher up on the pay scale. We notice for fact. For a low

:23:56. > :23:58.income second under two new benefit they would have to find an dxtra

:23:59. > :24:04.eight hours of work and thex thought they would. This policy will

:24:05. > :24:10.particularly hit hard women and gingerbread has said that 20,00

:24:11. > :24:14.loan parents will now lose out. Another key issue in this bhll is

:24:15. > :24:17.the lack of capacity in the system and key question marks about the

:24:18. > :24:20.sustainability of these thele remains. These could lead to a

:24:21. > :24:25.shrinkage in the market and I do not think we have had to visit

:24:26. > :24:27.years to get places I disappeared years to get places I disappeared

:24:28. > :24:32.under this government's watch. To deliver this offer is not as simple

:24:33. > :24:35.as saying eligible pre-and four-year-old will stay the setting

:24:36. > :24:40.for an additional 15 hours hn the afternoon. The afternoon sessions in

:24:41. > :24:44.many cases are full of children who are only eligible for the 14 hour

:24:45. > :24:48.offer. We have seen the problems ministers have had an expanding the

:24:49. > :24:51.provision for two-year-old `nd particularly in schools where space

:24:52. > :24:54.is our premium and with thrde and four-year-olds the problems will be

:24:55. > :24:59.greater. Facilities will nedd kitchens to serve lunch, sole

:25:00. > :25:03.settings currently providing 15 hours will not be able to expand

:25:04. > :25:06.because they are sessional `nd taken up why other community groups at

:25:07. > :25:11.these times. It is not just about money albeit at the ?50 million is

:25:12. > :25:17.welcome it is about logistics and practicalities. Within the private

:25:18. > :25:20.sector there are issues too. As many think offering 30 hours to parents

:25:21. > :25:24.would leave their businesses on the brink of collapse. Early, m`ny

:25:25. > :25:31.providers are only able to offer the 15 hours free childcare by cross

:25:32. > :25:35.subsidizing with full paying parents. That is why so manx

:25:36. > :25:37.providers they doubling the free offer would make their business is

:25:38. > :25:42.unsustainable. The government has a big task to do to and that there is

:25:43. > :25:48.that providers will actuallx offer the 15 hours without copy ott and in

:25:49. > :25:53.real terms. -- without cave`ts. The overall impact without a proper

:25:54. > :25:56.strategy could lead to an exacerbation of trends we h`ve

:25:57. > :25:59.already been over this Parlhament and the last. Namely a reduction in

:26:00. > :26:04.childcare places an increasd in cost to parents. For parents not in

:26:05. > :26:09.receipt of free hours, this makes and complicated cross subsidy and

:26:10. > :26:13.price inflation will mean that the cost of childcare good rockdt

:26:14. > :26:17.further. What planned to ministers have to ensure this does not happen?

:26:18. > :26:23.We still have not been reassured. As my honourable friend has so

:26:24. > :26:27.eloquently said in report stage the government seems to have no strategy

:26:28. > :26:32.for raising quality in childcare. And for reducing the start gap in

:26:33. > :26:36.development that exist betwden the age of five. Indeed, with the

:26:37. > :26:39.defamation of early intervention, early years support services and the

:26:40. > :26:42.virtual does the parent of sorts are children's interest from our

:26:43. > :26:47.communities, and family support services impossible to access, the

:26:48. > :26:51.Prime Minister's latest in ` line of the beaches on the importance of

:26:52. > :26:57.family frankly rings hollow. The government urges the need to turn

:26:58. > :27:00.his rhetoric into a reality. Not only are they not doing enotgh, it

:27:01. > :27:03.is quite possible for the rdasons outlined this evening that only

:27:04. > :27:08.focusing on maternal employlent drivers could damage the object is

:27:09. > :27:11.of raising quality and of encouraging disadvantaged f`milies

:27:12. > :27:15.to access high-quality earlx education. I would ask the Secretary

:27:16. > :27:20.of State once again to bring forward a conference of long-term strategy

:27:21. > :27:23.for reducing early years anx qualities and thereby giving a step

:27:24. > :27:29.change to social mobility in this country. Mr Deputy Speaker hn

:27:30. > :27:33.conclusion, as I have make clear we support this bill. We want parents

:27:34. > :27:36.of three and 4 euros to havd an additional 15 hours of free

:27:37. > :27:40.childcare and for this to bd a real author which helps parents find and

:27:41. > :27:43.afford childcare so they can do well for themselves and their falilies.

:27:44. > :27:47.Yet I worry that the governlent will turn a deaf ear to what our

:27:48. > :27:50.constructive concerns and I fear ministers are going in the wrong

:27:51. > :27:54.direction if they continue to ignore the problems this policy cotld have

:27:55. > :27:59.for the childcare market and for families if they fail to act. We

:28:00. > :28:03.need a bigger vision for chhldcare Aamodt of a system that delhvers

:28:04. > :28:07.flexibility, price and stabhlity for parents while also providing the

:28:08. > :28:11.best start for children and clothing the developmental gap that `lready

:28:12. > :28:18.exist in brief wool. Childc`re is too important. With the minhster

:28:19. > :28:27.like to make an intervention? - would the minister. He himsdlf knows

:28:28. > :28:30.as he admits that he is concerned about the developmental gap but he

:28:31. > :28:35.is concerned that he has no strategy to deal with it. Childcare hs too

:28:36. > :28:39.important to get wrong, yet the piecemeal abridge that the

:28:40. > :28:42.government endangers the market and the efficiency of the systel. We

:28:43. > :28:46.stand willing to work with the government to secure a winnhng

:28:47. > :28:49.approach for parents. We will support this bill in that spirit and

:28:50. > :28:56.keep a watchful eye on delivery at the scheme progresses. The puestion

:28:57. > :29:00.is that the bill will now bd read a third time. As many to that opinion

:29:01. > :29:07.than Aye. The contrary know. The Ayes have it. We now come to the

:29:08. > :29:12.backbench debate on foreign,policy involvement to the aid of Cdntral

:29:13. > :29:20.and East Africa. Order. A point of order. Thank you very much Lr Deputy

:29:21. > :29:25.Speaker. As a point of order, something that I may be

:29:26. > :29:29.misunderstanding on my part. When we does best in the autumn and the new

:29:30. > :29:33.certification process for English votes for English laws, it was

:29:34. > :29:38.certainly my understanding that it was a procedure, a certific`tion

:29:39. > :29:42.process that was going to bd used rarely. However, since this house

:29:43. > :29:47.has returned to since Christmas we have used it on the planning bill

:29:48. > :29:55.for housing, set straight Israel last week and used it in a childcare

:29:56. > :29:59.bill this evening. That the deputy speaker and the speakers office have

:30:00. > :30:05.any indication whether or not this dreadful procedure is going to

:30:06. > :30:09.become routine? Or is it in fact going to be used on rare occasions?

:30:10. > :30:13.And are the rare -- all the rare Christians have occurred within

:30:14. > :30:16.three makes of this month. The trouble is it depends on thd build

:30:17. > :30:20.and the nature of the bills and it is within any borders that dictates

:30:21. > :30:26.it. The fact is we can do long time without the bill or we can have one

:30:27. > :30:30.because the procedures are laid down and it is subject to of standing

:30:31. > :30:36.order. You have made the pohnt and it is now on the record.

:30:37. > :30:48.Sometimes I am a bit naughtx. For that point of order, and to truth is

:30:49. > :30:53.that the Honorable Lady shotld not get too worried about this because

:30:54. > :30:57.the English law is not going to change a single part of a shngle

:30:58. > :31:07.bill in this Parliament or `ny other Parliament. As all the other parties

:31:08. > :31:14.are opposed. Lamont you are naughty. Let's move on. We now come to the

:31:15. > :31:24.backbench debate in Central and East Africa. I will try once agahn. I beg

:31:25. > :31:34.to move the motion standing on the order paper in my name on bdhalf of

:31:35. > :31:40.my Honorable friend. Mr Deptty Speaker. This debate comes `t an

:31:41. > :31:44.opportune time. And I am gr`teful to the backbench but

:31:45. > :31:49.it also comes extraordinarily quickly given that it was only asked

:31:50. > :31:52.for last Tuesday. I must observe that there are many members who wish

:31:53. > :31:55.to have spoken in this debate that are not here because the

:31:56. > :31:59.international development committee is currently in Brussels, and

:32:00. > :32:06.although I am grateful for ly right honourable friends for responding to

:32:07. > :32:13.this debate as I understand that my Honorable friend the Ministdr for

:32:14. > :32:20.Africa is also currently ovdrseas. I myself returned this morning from

:32:21. > :32:27.East Africa in a hurry, if H might say so. I should also report my

:32:28. > :32:32.considerable things to the Honorable members who threatened to stand in a

:32:33. > :32:37.me had I not managed to makd a rather convoluted journey from

:32:38. > :32:43.Nairobi back to London. In particular, my honourable friends

:32:44. > :32:48.offered to move this motion had I not been here. And of coursd in the

:32:49. > :32:55.absence of my Honorable fridnd the Member for Stafford. The issues of

:32:56. > :32:59.the UK's diplomatic policies and Africa are a white topic. Attempting

:33:00. > :33:07.to limit them to two regions has in one sense no less wide that if we

:33:08. > :33:12.were debating the entire continent. The notions of East Africa `nd

:33:13. > :33:16.Central Africa in particular have a particular problem, and there are

:33:17. > :33:23.patterns which are reflected in all of their experiences. Which can be

:33:24. > :33:26.seen across the continent. Which call for consideration in this

:33:27. > :33:30.house. It is important that the House has been chance to debate

:33:31. > :33:39.these issues, and to debate how the United Kingdom response to do

:33:40. > :33:44.issues. But also for us. Evdryone in the House knows that Africa is

:33:45. > :33:48.growing. Present UN estimatds have changed the way that we book or

:33:49. > :33:52.should look as the continent's demography. And 12,004 at the UN

:33:53. > :33:56.predicted that Africa posithve population would grow to 2.3 billion

:33:57. > :34:00.by the end of the century. With a global population of one whdn I m

:34:01. > :34:08.playing. It almost all of those extra pdople

:34:09. > :34:13.will be in Africa. The Conthnental in fact be home, according to the

:34:14. > :34:17.United Nations, to 4.4 billhon people, an increase of 2 billion on

:34:18. > :34:20.the United Nations's earlier estimate. If those new projdctions

:34:21. > :34:24.are bright, big effect on geopolitics across the world would

:34:25. > :34:26.be hugely. It will mean by the end of the century almost 40% of the

:34:27. > :34:31.world public contract of the century almost 40% of the

:34:32. > :34:39.world In almost the same as the share

:34:40. > :34:43.population in Asia. Currently, Africa only has one of the worlds

:34:44. > :34:49.most populous countries, but the United Nations says that by 201 at

:34:50. > :34:53.one by five. Nigeria, Tanzania, Niger, Ethiopia, and the Delocratic

:34:54. > :34:57.Republic of Congo. All of those featured in the region which is

:34:58. > :35:01.considered in this debate. Luch can change over the course of the next

:35:02. > :35:05.eight decades, and things m`y be different by the end of the century.

:35:06. > :35:11.The fact remains that at prdsent, none of these countries tod`y is

:35:12. > :35:18.either particularly prosperous or the most as demonstrated -- none of

:35:19. > :35:23.these countries have demonstrated stability over the course of the

:35:24. > :35:27.last decade. Even if progress is made, the pressure caused bx a card

:35:28. > :35:30.you going of population poor at best hinder efforts and at worst derail

:35:31. > :35:35.them entirely to ensure the stability exists. That will be

:35:36. > :35:42.filled by every country in the region by different ways and at

:35:43. > :35:46.different times. Why of course, we will ask for this be a problem for

:35:47. > :35:52.the United Kingdom? Even if we set aside the

:35:53. > :35:58.we have to understand that this is not just a problem for Africa, this

:35:59. > :36:01.is something that affects otr security because of populathon

:36:02. > :36:04.pressures are not properly dealt with and if the governments of

:36:05. > :36:10.African countries do not embrace democracy and tackle corruption

:36:11. > :36:23.that has implications for us here. Stable economies are not possible

:36:24. > :36:27.without stable government. Corruption and political infighting

:36:28. > :36:31.are rife across East and Central Africa, and across the entire

:36:32. > :36:35.country at the micro contindnt. If nothing is done to talk abott things

:36:36. > :36:40.was not baby-sitting, but it pours. I will give way to my right

:36:41. > :36:43.honourable friend. One of the advantage of this debate is that it

:36:44. > :36:51.allows us to raise constitudncy problems, and my constituents had a

:36:52. > :36:55.son who was beaten to death in a police cell in Kenya. There was

:36:56. > :37:00.overwhelming evidence that that happened. What I am raising this

:37:01. > :37:05.point, is that I hope my Honorable friend will encourage the Mhnister

:37:06. > :37:21.to go to ensure he knows, as I said, that I know

:37:22. > :37:24.about the case and I am happy to encourage the Minister and his

:37:25. > :37:27.colleagues within the foreign office to do everything they can to ensure

:37:28. > :37:31.that justice is done in that case and that the Kenyan authorities do

:37:32. > :37:39.everything they can to seek those who were responsible are brought to

:37:40. > :37:44.justice. Not just for the f`mily, but also for everybody who has

:37:45. > :37:50.sustained some injustice in Kenya or elsewhere within the developing

:37:51. > :37:54.world. Mr Speaker, the other problem of course is that increasing

:37:55. > :37:58.populations across Africa c`used we have seen on our own shores, and

:37:59. > :38:03.that is the number of peopld who want to travel here seeking a better

:38:04. > :38:06.life. We know that from our past, and indeed the experiences that we

:38:07. > :38:10.are going to do in the moment, that that numbers are increasing. This is

:38:11. > :38:15.an issue with which we have to grapple in this house. Ensuring

:38:16. > :38:19.stable development and stable democracy, across East and Central

:38:20. > :38:23.Africa is most definitely otr problem. But I do, we see the sort

:38:24. > :38:28.of migration that we have on our shores at the moment. Mr Deputy

:38:29. > :38:36.Speaker, as I said, the reason for today's debate is a white one. We

:38:37. > :38:40.could argue that it consists of a very good number of state, `nd I

:38:41. > :38:44.know that members across thd House will want to discuss a numbdr of

:38:45. > :38:51.countries, but I want to garden my remarks on eight of them in

:38:52. > :38:59.particular. For are extremely fragile -- Forren are actually

:39:00. > :39:06.while each nation is to borrow a phrase, perhaps unhappy in hts own

:39:07. > :39:13.way, there are patterns and themes that emerge from all of thel that

:39:14. > :39:24.they has not. Some things I have already sought to highlight. One of

:39:25. > :39:29.the patterns that emerge as strongly when we look at the beach it is that

:39:30. > :39:34.of democratic process. Elections are extremely important. We need to

:39:35. > :39:38.continue to encourage democracy whenever we can. When there are

:39:39. > :39:46.problems with the process, they can become particularly a flash point

:39:47. > :39:49.for violence and instabilitx. Multiparty democratic states where

:39:50. > :40:02.they are set up are touted `s a way of ensuring peace and prospdrity.

:40:03. > :40:06.Populations understandably react. Mr Deputy Speaker, a particularly

:40:07. > :40:10.prolific source of violence stems from the continued attempts of some

:40:11. > :40:15.of those who hold political office to extend constitutional term

:40:16. > :40:24.limits. It happens in Chad where the 2-term limit was scrapped in 20 4 by

:40:25. > :40:28.Presidents' Day DEQ has now been in charge since 1990 and is expected to

:40:29. > :40:32.win again comfortably in thd elections that will take pl`ce this

:40:33. > :40:37.April. He has a tight grip on power, and it is fair to say that he

:40:38. > :40:43.strives to silence dissenting voices. Amid heightened sochal

:40:44. > :40:47.tensions, and the regional spread of Islamist, chattel remain vulnerable

:40:48. > :40:54.to destabilisation attempts. We have to be aware that although vholence

:40:55. > :40:59.has been minimal, there is ` risk of widespread instability that could

:41:00. > :41:06.give haven to violent groups. The most serious example of this at the

:41:07. > :41:31.moment, time limits By my Honorable friend that he had

:41:32. > :41:34.not reached his constitutional limit because he was appointed rather than

:41:35. > :41:38.elected for his first term. A position with which you'd agreed,

:41:39. > :41:44.but stayed in office nonethdless. While he was out of the country and

:41:45. > :41:51.make there was a failed armx to and he was easily reelected in July And

:41:52. > :41:56.since then be hurt a famili`r tune. Independent media shutdown,

:41:57. > :42:05.opposition leading neighbourhood prorated. Young men are takhng out

:42:06. > :42:10.your arms which is concerning. Especially for those who were able

:42:11. > :42:16.to see the genocide in Rwanda in 1994. And Brandy, government figures

:42:17. > :42:21.have attempted assassinations and security forces have gone from house

:42:22. > :42:24.to house murdering suspected opposition fighters. The Unhted

:42:25. > :42:29.Nations estimates that 200,000 Burundians have fled since @pril

:42:30. > :42:37.with many going to Rwanda. Rumors are flying that tootsies ard forced

:42:38. > :42:43.to leave Brandy and intervene against the. The whole region

:42:44. > :42:50.therefore is something of a flash point. Memories of that genocide are

:42:51. > :42:55.two recent. Thankfully ethnhc violence has not happened, but those

:42:56. > :42:59.fears are well placed and whdespread as I know. For my own time `nd

:43:00. > :43:05.Kigali over the last three days for I should make clear to the House the

:43:06. > :43:14.better part of team Phillips is currently working for the

:43:15. > :43:19.government. I will give way to my Honorable friend on that pohnt. I

:43:20. > :43:26.think my Honorable friend for giving way. It is a tale of woe th`t he

:43:27. > :43:30.says about Burundi. It is more within the British sphere then

:43:31. > :43:38.perhaps Chad has been which is a more Francophile part of Africa He

:43:39. > :43:42.is telling the House a lot `bout his intimate knowledge of this

:43:43. > :43:46.particular area, but what about the solutions? Many of our fellow

:43:47. > :43:52.citizens will throw their h`nds in the air is a hopeless case. What are

:43:53. > :43:56.we doing here putting more loney into a general budget for these

:43:57. > :44:03.sorts of nations. While it hs not a view that I would agree with, has he

:44:04. > :44:11.had a thought about how we can play our part. Will we be doing this with

:44:12. > :44:18.other UN partners to get a better state of affairs in Burundi? There

:44:19. > :44:22.are of course a number of things, some of which I will come onto which

:44:23. > :44:27.will be done in the long term. Deterring corruption which has been

:44:28. > :44:30.a rise in Burundi is one of them. Having proper enforcement of the

:44:31. > :44:36.anti-corruption convention `nd the African Union's antique corruption

:44:37. > :44:41.will assist in Burundi and elsewhere. There are specifhc things

:44:42. > :44:46.I can be done immediately. H want to commend our Honorable friend the

:44:47. > :44:48.Minister with this possibilhty for Africa to travelling to the beach

:44:49. > :44:55.and just before Christmas and speaking to the Burundian government

:44:56. > :44:59.about things that were reminiscent of things prior to 1994 Rwandan

:45:00. > :45:06.genocide. I am pleased to sde my right honourable friend on the front

:45:07. > :45:11.bench. He will know that as a result of the corruption in Burundh, the

:45:12. > :45:13.department withdrew its support for the government. One of the things

:45:14. > :45:16.that I think that the government needs to look at and considdr is

:45:17. > :45:23.consists restoring that support Without that support it is fair to

:45:24. > :45:27.say that the United Kingdom has a voice that is less likely to be

:45:28. > :45:31.listened to by the existing government of Burundi. I will give

:45:32. > :45:34.way to my Honorable friend here A number of us in this house for

:45:35. > :45:37.privileged to hear Bill Gatds speaks. One of the things that he

:45:38. > :45:42.said was that generally spe`king, the better off the country hs the

:45:43. > :45:45.more inclined it is towards democracy and good systems of

:45:46. > :45:49.government, and health care and things that come with that.

:45:50. > :45:54.Solutions that my Honorable friend have raised, that clearly is a key

:45:55. > :45:58.point that we should be foctsed on trying to improve the econolic state

:45:59. > :46:02.of these countries. Therefore their systems of governments that will

:46:03. > :46:06.flow from that. My Honorabld friend is right and I will do with him

:46:07. > :46:13.about. Maybe when the Minister despised the debate will. That will

:46:14. > :46:20.be a useful thing for the government to say. On the subject of Btrundi. I

:46:21. > :46:26.think it is important to cl`rify the situation. Following the review in

:46:27. > :46:31.2010, pregnancies do have a small programme that had an Burundi. Part

:46:32. > :46:36.of because of the cost was great, but because France and Germ`ny had a

:46:37. > :46:39.bigger stake in their country, and print and prioritise its

:46:40. > :46:46.interventions in many of thd other countries that he is focusing on. So

:46:47. > :46:50.that we could focus on the places we do have a direct affect. My right

:46:51. > :47:03.honourable friend will know more about it than I. I do not s`y that

:47:04. > :47:07.they were bad at the time. Ht has given the United Kingdom solething

:47:08. > :47:15.of a lesser voice in the Cotncil's of Burundi. I will give way in just

:47:16. > :47:17.a moment. I have to make a suggestion of which my right

:47:18. > :47:22.honourable friend the Minister may be aware, that he given his

:47:23. > :47:25.ministerial responsibilities might like to speak to his counterparts in

:47:26. > :47:31.China who do have a strong voice and Burundi and seek to encourage them

:47:32. > :47:34.to discourage the president I'm going to the route that he `ppears

:47:35. > :47:39.to be tempting to go down at the moment. I give way to the honourable

:47:40. > :47:42.gentleman and in the Honorable Lady. Would he not accept that ond of the

:47:43. > :47:55.considerations and withdrawhng it from around the -- Burundi. I do

:47:56. > :48:00.accept that, and I'd think one of the points I made is to the reasons

:48:01. > :48:05.why I understood aid to havd been withdrawn from Burundi is the fact

:48:06. > :48:08.that there was extensive corruption and no assurance that the ahd was

:48:09. > :48:12.reaching the targets that it was supposed to be reaching. I dip into

:48:13. > :48:16.the Honorable Lady. I congr`tulate the Honorable gentleman for securing

:48:17. > :48:23.this debate, and I can telndt to my visit to Burundi in 2009 I visited a

:48:24. > :48:26.save the children hospital that was helping women to deliver thdir baby

:48:27. > :48:29.safely, and that was one of the projects that we funded an country

:48:30. > :48:34.that made a real difference in a country where one and five tnder

:48:35. > :48:37.fives did not make it to thdir fifth birthday. I agree with him that by

:48:38. > :48:42.withdrawing from the countrx we do have less boys and less influence,

:48:43. > :48:45.and I would gently say to all Honorable members that when he talks

:48:46. > :48:48.about Chad and Central African Republic, the thing that thdse

:48:49. > :48:57.countries have in common is that they are abject poverty and eight

:48:58. > :48:59.orphans. They are ways to go into those countries to the Unitdd

:49:00. > :49:06.Nations in partnering with other governments, and inflexible in the

:49:07. > :49:17.future. We are running over. We have a loudspeaker. I am grateful for the

:49:18. > :49:21.guidance in the chair. The Honorable Lady makes a strong point. H think

:49:22. > :49:27.the real point is there a b`lance to be struck between were the Honorable

:49:28. > :49:33.Lady is going to be displacdd and the influence and good that British

:49:34. > :49:40.aid can do. With Jordan Junction in mind, let me move on to the

:49:41. > :49:45.Democratic Republic of Congo. In a sense this place has similar

:49:46. > :49:49.problems. The Constitution says that the president will stand on this

:49:50. > :49:58.year, but there is many doubt that he will. He has been in charge since

:49:59. > :50:03.his father was assassinated in 001. DRC has been the subject of an

:50:04. > :50:11.appalling civil war in the past The worry must be going for it hf he

:50:12. > :50:17.does not stand down that bad again will lead to violence and

:50:18. > :50:20.instability in the region. Lr Deputy Speaker, there is also concdrned

:50:21. > :50:23.about the elections which are currently ongoing and the Cdntral

:50:24. > :50:31.African Republic. There has been balance and the against Brad the

:50:32. > :50:39.micro rival -- rival Christhan groups. Although there are various

:50:40. > :50:50.presidential elections, the first round seems to have gone well last

:50:51. > :51:02.month, he. There is still no winner. What can the -- what is the state of

:51:03. > :51:07.the government. If there is not a smooth runoff that could sp`rk a new

:51:08. > :51:12.round of violence that we do not want to see there or anywhere else

:51:13. > :51:16.in the region. The real point here is about political stabilitx.

:51:17. > :51:22.Constitutions are there to be observed. If they are not observed,

:51:23. > :51:27.and people treat them as behng a right to govern for as long as they

:51:28. > :51:30.want, then that is detrimental to the fragile democracies and is

:51:31. > :51:36.likely to lead to political violence and runs the risk of leading to

:51:37. > :51:44.civil war. And if that sort of Civil War which Rwanda went through and

:51:45. > :51:49.1994. When as I have to say one of my earliest political memorhes we

:51:50. > :51:53.saw the appalling pictures on our televisions of the genocide of which

:51:54. > :52:01.approximately 1 million people were killed. During a period of several

:52:02. > :52:05.months. It is those images that we must have in mind, because ht is

:52:06. > :52:10.that sort of genocide which which we must try to avoid. That sort of

:52:11. > :52:14.political instability which leads to appalling acts of violence `gainst

:52:15. > :52:22.the people of countries in the region, and indeed lead to having to

:52:23. > :52:25.go in due course into the rdgion spent British taxpayers mondy, to

:52:26. > :52:31.try and restore order and stability which can lead to problems on these

:52:32. > :52:36.shores in terms of economic migration and in terms of tdrrorism.

:52:37. > :52:40.With Jordan Junction in mind, Mr Deputy Speaker, having said that I

:52:41. > :52:47.would speak about its countries I think I have spoken about four or

:52:48. > :52:56.five. I know that there are very many members who look to contribute

:52:57. > :53:02.to this debate. The question is asked on the order paper. It is a

:53:03. > :53:13.pleasure to be able to speak in this debate today. I thank them for

:53:14. > :53:16.securing this debate to discuss a wide range of topics, and as he has

:53:17. > :53:19.pointed out, the title for this debate could encompass many

:53:20. > :53:23.countries and many subjects and themes. Therefore Mr Deputy Speaker,

:53:24. > :53:40.I'm going to come straight on as few specific things tonight. I wish to

:53:41. > :53:44.discuss Somaliland which is important to my constituencx. Let's

:53:45. > :53:48.talk about the relationship between security and developing sittation

:53:49. > :53:54.there and some of the other less satisfactory is the macro examples

:53:55. > :53:59.we see across central and E`stern Africa. I want to talk a little

:54:00. > :54:02.about the Welsh contributions and local community contribution being

:54:03. > :54:06.made to development across Dast and Central Africa. But first, H want to

:54:07. > :54:10.talk about Somaliland. Many Honorable members will know that I

:54:11. > :54:17.have long been a supporter of recognition for its Somalil`nd and

:54:18. > :54:21.for their people. There has been a referendum that made that vdry

:54:22. > :54:28.clear. This is a complex cotld store the macro situation since bden

:54:29. > :54:34.1960s. Somaliland declared independence first from the UK. It

:54:35. > :54:38.was a British colony. Then the rest of Somalia took its independence and

:54:39. > :54:43.eventually came together in one country. As we know, many as well

:54:44. > :54:47.know there has been a long history of conflict and tragic conflict

:54:48. > :54:51.between the different parts of the whole of Africa particularlx that

:54:52. > :54:57.region. Become today to a shtuation where we have actually had ` de

:54:58. > :55:03.facto functioning and indepdndent Somaliland which has a strong record

:55:04. > :55:06.of development, and growth, and looking after its citizens `nd

:55:07. > :55:09.fostering democracy and a plural political system which is s`dly

:55:10. > :55:16.lacking in many other areas across the region and Africa. I want to pay

:55:17. > :55:29.tribute to the government and Somaliland.

:55:30. > :55:38.I think there has been some positive developments in recent months. Last

:55:39. > :55:43.year we saw a crucial Somalhland investment conference which was

:55:44. > :55:47.supported by the UK governmdnt. We so much interest from busindss and

:55:48. > :55:50.from others and investing and taking part in fruitful trading

:55:51. > :55:53.relationships with Somaliland. That is where stability and growth and

:55:54. > :55:58.support for wider development is going to come from. Engaging with

:55:59. > :56:02.that region and a positive sense. I think that was welcome progress I

:56:03. > :56:09.think the also see a very wdlcome development that in the UK hn cities

:56:10. > :56:12.like Cardiff and Sheffield recognising Somaliland and the

:56:13. > :56:17.historical relationship between Somaliland and the UK's and

:56:18. > :56:23.fostering the slings and taking them for it. However, we also sed the

:56:24. > :56:28.risks. We saw the insecure situation and the rest of Africa was that from

:56:29. > :56:42.groups from terrorist -- but some terrorist organizations. And other

:56:43. > :56:49.I think it is important to recognise the crucial role that the UK

:56:50. > :56:54.government has also played on that with support from the Royal Marines

:56:55. > :56:57.and UK support militarily and tonnes of training and security forces to

:56:58. > :57:04.help them deal with threats for national security for example piracy

:57:05. > :57:07.off the coast, but ensuring that there are well resource and train

:57:08. > :57:13.security forces that can't respond to the type of threats that threaten

:57:14. > :57:18.the stability of Somaliland citizens and in the wider region. Thdre are

:57:19. > :57:22.two crucial issues which I would be interested in the Minister's

:57:23. > :57:27.comments. Firstly, the situ`tion regarding elections and Som`liland.

:57:28. > :57:33.There is currently being postponed until next year. This is not unusual

:57:34. > :57:36.to see elections postponed, but it is important that those continue and

:57:37. > :57:39.that we continue on a democratic path and ensure that the people of

:57:40. > :57:45.Somaliland are able to have a democratic choice about thehr future

:57:46. > :57:49.government. I understand th`t the crucial task of voter registration

:57:50. > :57:52.has started, but I would be interested in the Minister's views

:57:53. > :57:55.about what can be done by the international community to dnsure

:57:56. > :58:03.that legislation continues `nd that we have passage to presidential and

:58:04. > :58:09.parliamentary elections. I think that that is crucial that both of

:58:10. > :58:14.those elections take place, and I will happily give way to thd right

:58:15. > :58:18.honourable gentleman. Of cotrse there have been elections in the

:58:19. > :58:23.past Somaliland, with very narrow results. Just a few thousand

:58:24. > :58:25.separate the two candidates. Power has transferred peacefully `nd

:58:26. > :58:29.effectively. I think you'll want to make it clear that this present

:58:30. > :58:35.glitch does not besmirch a very considerable record and respectful

:58:36. > :58:39.of elections and Somaliland. The gentleman makes a critical point and

:58:40. > :58:42.knows this issue all too well. That is what all of us who care `bout

:58:43. > :58:49.Somaliland want to see that progress and that stability continue. It has

:58:50. > :58:52.active political parties, and I have met representatives from a number of

:58:53. > :59:00.different parties in the coling weeks. They want to see this going

:59:01. > :59:05.for us. And ensuring that both voter registration and elections go ahead

:59:06. > :59:08.as we expect. Lastly I wantdd to touch on the issues of the talks

:59:09. > :59:15.that were going on between Somalia and Somaliland and the ausphces of

:59:16. > :59:21.the Turkish government. There were some important high-level t`lks in

:59:22. > :59:24.Turkey between senior representatives of the Somalia

:59:25. > :59:32.federal government and its Somaliland counterpoint 2014. For

:59:33. > :59:36.practical issues that could be addressed around aviation and around

:59:37. > :59:42.other telecommunication isstes and so on. There has been a fallback

:59:43. > :59:46.from some of those talks, and I would be interested to know what the

:59:47. > :59:50.view of the government is as to the status of those talks whethdr it

:59:51. > :59:52.sees them as having value going forward, and if not how ever kind of

:59:53. > :59:58.confidence building can occtr confidence building can occtr

:59:59. > :00:03.between Somalia and Somalil`nd recognises the future and btilding

:00:04. > :00:07.confidence and concept betwden those two countries. I wanted to briefly

:00:08. > :00:20.touch on the Honorable's John I wanted briefly to mention a few

:00:21. > :00:25.countries that are of great concern to me at the moment. We havd an

:00:26. > :00:33.excellent adjournment debatd and here a couple of months ago on the

:00:34. > :00:36.issue of Eritrea. I think that this pointed out the grave situation

:00:37. > :00:42.there and civil rights abusds that are occurring. I would be interested

:00:43. > :00:47.to hear from the Minister where he sees a situation developing I am

:00:48. > :00:54.also worried about the concdrns of every government representatives

:00:55. > :00:59.pursuing their citizens in the UK for taxation and

:01:00. > :01:06.it certainly does not contrhbute to fostering a good relationshhp

:01:07. > :01:10.between the restraint of Di`spora. Many concerns are shared about the

:01:11. > :01:16.situation and the Central African Republic and the Minister for Africa

:01:17. > :01:22.answered a question to me rdcently where he was very clear that the

:01:23. > :01:29.security situation in the C@ are is grave and violence and human rights

:01:30. > :01:35.abuses continue. These are not countries that make the hub

:01:36. > :01:42.headlines, but they should still be concerned up -- concerns to us in

:01:43. > :01:47.the House. If we are concerned about these issues we should be concerned

:01:48. > :01:51.about them wherever they ard occurring. Similarly, situations and

:01:52. > :01:55.chat and also we have heard at length already about the situation

:01:56. > :01:59.and heredity and fears about where that might develop. I think all of

:02:00. > :02:03.those situations seek to underline that it is crucial for the TK

:02:04. > :02:11.government continue to purste a joint up approach in its

:02:12. > :02:16.I was pleased to see the I was pleased to see the

:02:17. > :02:20.announcements about further advised the macro investment. The honourable

:02:21. > :02:30.gentleman it was something that was started. I

:02:31. > :02:34.worked in the Department at that time and it was an issue th`t we

:02:35. > :02:38.felt was important to focus on. We need to be putting more resources

:02:39. > :02:42.into the situations where wd want to be doing preventative work not just

:02:43. > :02:46.responding to conflict and whether that is a method for supporting

:02:47. > :02:52.Democratic governance development, the rights of women and girls,

:02:53. > :02:54.supporting elections and eldctoral processes, supporting low-ldvel

:02:55. > :02:59.security measures and justice measures. All of those things give

:03:00. > :03:02.competency population and allow us to get the important issues that is

:03:03. > :03:16.absolutely crucial. He makes a good point and I think I

:03:17. > :03:20.suspect he would agree like me that the government have got it right in

:03:21. > :03:25.this regard. I think the new age trafficking is a step forward to try

:03:26. > :03:32.to integrate the issues of security, intelligence and defence with what I

:03:33. > :03:34.call work additional aid and international development goals

:03:35. > :03:40.Does he feel that we have the balance right to ensure that the

:03:41. > :03:43.roughly 50% of the disadvantaged should be going into these fragile

:03:44. > :03:55.-- this budget should be gohng into these fragile areas Roger that gas

:03:56. > :03:59.rather than having the... I would say two points in response. In

:04:00. > :04:03.principle yes I agree and I am clear about that and they get is hmportant

:04:04. > :04:05.that we focus on those fraghle countries affected by conflhct. I

:04:06. > :04:09.would say two things. It is important to support governlent in

:04:10. > :04:17.that there have to be important criteria around that but if we -

:04:18. > :04:22.unless we support them we dhd not see the consistency of approach in

:04:23. > :04:27.the ordination with NGOs and others that might be operating in `

:04:28. > :04:29.country. In the end it was only in this country by forming an National

:04:30. > :04:34.Health Service and unified dducation system that we improved frol the

:04:35. > :04:36.past. I do not want to move completely away from governlent

:04:37. > :04:39.support but it is important that it is properly scrutinised and it is

:04:40. > :04:43.important that it is rapidlx accounted for in today's important

:04:44. > :04:46.that consideration such as human rights are mentioned. Ira mdmber a

:04:47. > :04:50.very particular example we were involved in the last governlent

:04:51. > :04:54.where the previous president of Leuluai was proposing to spdnd a lot

:04:55. > :04:57.of money on a presidential jet. It was made very clear that th`t was

:04:58. > :05:00.not acceptable and the monex was funneled through to an alternative

:05:01. > :05:13.means to make sure it got to the people who need it not into that

:05:14. > :05:16.corruption. I think... However, we also have to accept that probably

:05:17. > :05:22.there is a silent minority dven in this house or rather less shlent

:05:23. > :05:26.majority in the country at large who do not buy into that idea. Hn many

:05:27. > :05:28.ways I think therefore having a strategy along the lines thd

:05:29. > :05:34.government has put into place will make it easier to sell. Not just in

:05:35. > :05:39.there is a world of very dangerous there is a world of very dangerous

:05:40. > :05:45.uncertainty and those securhty and defence aspects are an important

:05:46. > :05:48.part and need to be integrated with our entire development budgdt. I

:05:49. > :05:52.agree with the broad point the honourable gentleman is makhng. When

:05:53. > :05:55.speaking to my own that the drugs I make very clear the link between

:05:56. > :05:58.what happens in these countries and our own streets. We have not only

:05:59. > :06:01.had those historic link that we have also had some very tragic

:06:02. > :06:05.circumstances with young men from my constituency trying to travdl to

:06:06. > :06:09.fight for house about or indeed an individual who studied and card of

:06:10. > :06:12.going to Nigeria to involve himself with Boko Haram. What happens in

:06:13. > :06:16.these countries cannot a very direct and serious impact on our street at

:06:17. > :06:19.times. It has always been good to me that development is both our moral

:06:20. > :06:22.duty and that is the primarx thing but it is also in our common

:06:23. > :06:25.interest across the base and it is an art, global interest and the

:06:26. > :06:29.common natural interest of this country and I'm never afford at

:06:30. > :06:34.making a point. I will but H want to make one brief point. He did make a

:06:35. > :06:38.very important point which was about ordination across departments

:06:39. > :06:41.department. I agree with th`t in principle but I would say is that I

:06:42. > :06:43.have sat there in the past where certain figures from certain

:06:44. > :06:47.departments, Ministry of defence and departments, Ministry of defence and

:06:48. > :06:52.others that look very eagle eyed at the budget and said we can have this

:06:53. > :06:56.and this but not for that. There is sent in ordination and oper`tion but

:06:57. > :06:59.it should not just picking tp a way of people diving off jump in

:07:00. > :07:02.relabeling it as the meals `nd I thoroughly hope and I know the

:07:03. > :07:05.opposition front bench will be doing an awful lot into driving to make

:07:06. > :07:08.sure we see cooperation but not hiving off of part the budgdts for

:07:09. > :07:14.other purposes. I will happhly give way. The honourable member no doubt

:07:15. > :07:18.agree to me that we do not do enough to talk about when we do get it

:07:19. > :07:22.right. One area where we have got it right is in Ethiopia where our

:07:23. > :07:27.support has reduced tile mortality by a quarter, but 4 million more in

:07:28. > :07:30.private schools and protectdd on with a million people from needing

:07:31. > :07:33.humanitarian food aid. Perh`ps if we shared more of the positive stories

:07:34. > :07:36.where he got it right that would not only in a way enable people to

:07:37. > :07:40.appreciate donations we madd but appreciate donations we madd but

:07:41. > :07:42.also for them to understand what we are doing overseas. I would

:07:43. > :07:47.absolutely agree and many mdmbers in debate tonight are the very people

:07:48. > :07:50.who put forward the example such as the one she gave and I think it is

:07:51. > :07:53.very crucial to continue to do that and build that confidence. H have

:07:54. > :07:58.the missile my own eyes, thd impact UK made and the impact that makes

:07:59. > :08:01.not only for the people it hs helping but in fostering thd

:08:02. > :08:05.stability and development and the dirty was in the end is a bdnefit to

:08:06. > :08:09.the whole of Africa and indded the whole of the world. I will give way.

:08:10. > :08:13.Just on the issue of success stories, I just want to takd the

:08:14. > :08:16.opportunity to remind him of this great success the last Labotr

:08:17. > :08:22.government had in setting up the Rwandan revenue Authority where we

:08:23. > :08:27.sent HMRC over to help design tax collection systems. I was a ?20

:08:28. > :08:31.million investment by the UK government which has reaped in

:08:32. > :08:36.hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues. I suggested this to a

:08:37. > :08:41.senior minister in the South Sudanese government when I was there

:08:42. > :08:44.in 2012 and to my disappointment he rejected the offer to help him set

:08:45. > :08:48.up his own South Sudanese rdvenue collection authority. Is an

:08:49. > :08:53.important example my honour`ble friend gives and I think it makes a

:08:54. > :08:57.development and of the international development and of the international

:08:58. > :09:02.effect of this country and hndeed the world needs to be pressdd across

:09:03. > :09:05.many of our department not just for an office in the Ministry of

:09:06. > :09:08.defence. I think we need to look at other ways and other places in which

:09:09. > :09:12.cooperation can happen and H think that leads me neatly onto mx last

:09:13. > :09:14.point that a deputy speaker which is the role that devolved

:09:15. > :09:19.administrations also play in development and in eastern central

:09:20. > :09:22.Africa. I really want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the

:09:23. > :09:28.work of a new partnership that is developing in Wales, which hs

:09:29. > :09:34.ringing together to the wakd of the wealth African community links, and

:09:35. > :09:37.he will scrap a help link and fair trade wheels and the wheeled

:09:38. > :09:41.international development htb. We'll have a strong addition of

:09:42. > :09:44.internationalism, carrying outside and with many other organiz`tions

:09:45. > :09:48.local and Wales wide organizations of care deeply about matters of

:09:49. > :09:52.development human rights, international justice climate change

:09:53. > :09:56.and so on. This sector in W`les is growing, we have more than 350

:09:57. > :09:58.community groups and micro organizations working on thd

:09:59. > :10:02.international development from right across Wales and it is a large fair

:10:03. > :10:07.trade movement and supporting Wales as the first ever fair tradd a soon

:10:08. > :10:11.as declared in 2008. There hs a him that has been supported by the Wells

:10:12. > :10:15.government, 180,000 deliverhng grants to many of these

:10:16. > :10:18.organizations enabling them to take those works forward. I wantdd that

:10:19. > :10:20.on a couple of examples I think are relevant to this region is dastern

:10:21. > :10:27.Central Africa. The women's trust Central Africa. The women's trust

:10:28. > :10:31.and part of it you the expertise of mental health workers and

:10:32. > :10:35.psychiatrist to provide help for hospital workers in Somalil`nd which

:10:36. > :10:41.included identification of serious mental help us disorders, trauma and

:10:42. > :10:45.other important regions likd Somaliland which have deemed

:10:46. > :10:48.complex, human rights abuses in their history and some of those bank

:10:49. > :10:55.may become too before now. @ very interesting game called cattle -

:10:56. > :10:59.saddle aid have developed and I want to give this example. Inflatable

:11:00. > :11:04.saddles for emergency transport in Ethiopia to enable emergencx medical

:11:05. > :11:09.facilities to be taken by donkeys or by Star Wars is to the most remote

:11:10. > :11:13.areas. Very simple and effective way of getting resources out thdre but

:11:14. > :11:16.also being able to transport pregnant women to the nearest health

:11:17. > :11:20.care facility where they might be supported. Community Carbon link is

:11:21. > :11:26.planting half a million treds for Kenyan schools. They have rtn faster

:11:27. > :11:32.projects in Kenya for over dight years. Other organizations `re well

:11:33. > :11:39.known and have had Valley in Uganda have changed over without hdalth

:11:40. > :11:41.care workers supporting a population of nearly 250,000. Locally hn my own

:11:42. > :11:46.constituency we have many these organizations including Hyatt that I

:11:47. > :11:51.mentioned but also places I have not mentioned in Central African but for

:11:52. > :11:56.others based in than knife hn my constituency. Bugle governmdnt - UK

:11:57. > :12:02.government has a role but others do as well and I am proud to s`y they

:12:03. > :12:08.are playing it. I know it sdems like we have an endless amount of time

:12:09. > :12:11.that we have eight beakers `nd 5 -- eight years and three front bench,

:12:12. > :12:14.if people could stick to th`t Waldman and then that would give

:12:15. > :12:20.everybody in the same amount of time. Madam Deputy Speaker H draw

:12:21. > :12:23.the House's attention to my interest set out in the register. I

:12:24. > :12:29.congratulate my honourable friend forced leverage and North hhgh come

:12:30. > :12:34.on securing this debate tod`y and in the non-is excellence beach which

:12:35. > :12:39.you must have written in thd small hours of the morning at the airport

:12:40. > :12:43.and he certainly launched the debate extremely effectively. The debate

:12:44. > :12:48.Madam Deputy Speaker gives ts a chance to pay tribute to thd

:12:49. > :12:56.foreign office and from Davhd and foreign office and from Davhd and

:12:57. > :13:00.the staff. The officials and it was my privilege to lead for two and

:13:01. > :13:03.half years are doing such outstanding work in the are` we are

:13:04. > :13:08.discussing and also to the lany NGOs and charities who do such d`ngerous

:13:09. > :13:13.and vital work and desperatd parts of the world. We think of the recent

:13:14. > :13:18.injuries and that that has `fflicted many and are hearts go out to those

:13:19. > :13:24.who have been maimed or worst serving their fellow men and women

:13:25. > :13:29.in a very difficult part of Africa. Madam Deputy Speaker, this debate is

:13:30. > :13:34.timely because the scale of the difficulties in this part of the

:13:35. > :13:37.world is sometimes masked the scale of our development success. A point

:13:38. > :13:42.made in an elegant intervention by made in an elegant intervention by

:13:43. > :13:46.my honourable friend for Whdeldon. The difficulties hide the htge

:13:47. > :13:50.difference is that internathonal development can make. Let us be

:13:51. > :13:53.absolutely clear, throughout the house tonight that internathonal

:13:54. > :14:01.development work and that Britain is a key mover and shaker in the

:14:02. > :14:05.deployment of... Reddest inhtiatives are being copied all around the

:14:06. > :14:10.world, in America, Australi`, throughout Canada and Scandhnavia,

:14:11. > :14:13.amongst UN agencies, even the European Union is beginning to make

:14:14. > :14:19.some progress on this. Let ts also be weird that this progress from

:14:20. > :14:21.Britain -- let also be clear, have happened under both Labour `nd

:14:22. > :14:26.conservative prime ministers. The four I come directly to the eastern

:14:27. > :14:31.and Central Africa, let me say this. Now is the time and we are the

:14:32. > :14:35.generation that can make a colossal difference to these huge

:14:36. > :14:39.discrepancies of opportunitx and wealth which exist in our world

:14:40. > :14:45.today and disfigure it felt very greatly. Britain has done

:14:46. > :14:51.extraordinary humanitarian work around the poor and conflicted parts

:14:52. > :14:55.of the world. We think of Sxria where Britain's support for theory

:14:56. > :15:00.and refugees is greater than all the rest of the European Union `dded

:15:01. > :15:04.together. We think of the w`y Britain has managed to help get

:15:05. > :15:08.children, particularly girls into school. In the year 2000 thdre were

:15:09. > :15:12.100 million children and our world too good not go to school bdcause

:15:13. > :15:17.they did not have a school to go to. Today that number is heading down

:15:18. > :15:21.from 57 million. The girls dducation challenged fund was that of to get a

:15:22. > :15:26.million girls into school. Hn parts of the world where there was no

:15:27. > :15:29.state structure to do so and encourage the private sector,

:15:30. > :15:31.humanitarian organizations, charities and philanthropic

:15:32. > :15:37.organizations to join with that We have been leading the way, tackling

:15:38. > :15:41.disease through vaccination and in the last parliament every two

:15:42. > :15:44.seconds we vaccinated a child in the poor world and saved the life of a

:15:45. > :15:47.child every two minutes frol diseases which ain't good and as our

:15:48. > :15:52.own children do not suffer from in Britain. We are on the way to

:15:53. > :15:57.eradicating polio, today's announcement on malaria, thd 50

:15:58. > :16:02.million going forward in 2020 is an important continuation of a policy

:16:03. > :16:05.actually which the Chancellor of the Exchequer as he now is and then was

:16:06. > :16:11.not announced in 2008 when he said that a conservative governmdnt would

:16:12. > :16:14.contribute ?500 million unthl it was eradicated and he is now extending

:16:15. > :16:19.that promised so it will last for 12 years. Britain thought leaddrship on

:16:20. > :16:25.family planning where all countries began their promise we will have

:16:26. > :16:29.reduced by half the number of women in the poor world who want `ccess to

:16:30. > :16:32.contraception and have not currently guided by 2020. There is thd

:16:33. > :16:37.extraordinary success particularly in the whole of Africa at combating

:16:38. > :16:42.HIV aids. What not .7 amendlent enshrined in law bring it clearly

:16:43. > :16:49.continuing to lead the way `nd put its money where his mouth is, but

:16:50. > :16:52.the .7% bending of taxpayers money Madam Deputy Speaker is onlx

:16:53. > :16:56.justifiable if we show that it is delivering real results so that

:16:57. > :16:59.hard-pressed taxpayers can see that for every pound that they are

:17:00. > :17:07.contributing to the developlent budget they are getting 100 pens of

:17:08. > :17:09.delivery on the ground. -- 000 pens. All the way across sub-Saharan

:17:10. > :17:14.Africa and Central and Eastdrn Africa, poverty and comp late as my

:17:15. > :17:18.honourable friend who launched the debate made so clear is bredding

:17:19. > :17:23.instability. There is a belt of mystery which is fuelling dhscontent

:17:24. > :17:27.and anger amongst very poor people. The DRC has been mentioned where of

:17:28. > :17:31.course there is appalling stffering, course there is appalling stffering,

:17:32. > :17:34.particularly in the East whdre there are 25 or 28 bands of villahns going

:17:35. > :17:37.around terrorising the population. It is a rich irony that somd of the

:17:38. > :17:42.poorest people in the world live on top of some of the richest real

:17:43. > :17:48.estate. In northern Nigeria, where DFID has been such good work I'm a

:17:49. > :17:52.Boko Haram has been destroyhng the lives of ordinary people although

:17:53. > :17:58.their position have gotten far more double gold for them under this new

:17:59. > :18:02.president of Nigeria. In Mali we have seen the terror that h`s

:18:03. > :18:08.gripped local people and it is worth noting Madam Deputy Speaker that

:18:09. > :18:12.Molly produces cotton. But hn spite of excellent attempts by Brhtain to

:18:13. > :18:16.try to the ease trade distortions, particularly because of the American

:18:17. > :18:20.subsidies and the EU subsidhes as well, they cannot sell their cotton

:18:21. > :18:24.for living wage. That is solething which the international comlunity

:18:25. > :18:27.needs to address. In the Central African Republic mentioned by my

:18:28. > :18:31.honourable friend, after thhs country is now under Fed. It is a

:18:32. > :18:37.real first point with warnings of the Islamic fundamentalism from

:18:38. > :18:41.leading Muslims in that country I want to take this opportunity of

:18:42. > :18:46.praising the work of those who have done so much good work in Rwanda at

:18:47. > :18:50.combating genocide. I make the point to the minister that he may well

:18:51. > :18:55.have something beneficial to say about the disorder in the Cdntral

:18:56. > :19:01.African Republic although it is of course an area very much within the

:19:02. > :19:04.French and we will be looking pretty bright and European Union to use

:19:05. > :19:10.their international developlents pending to tackle those

:19:11. > :19:14.difficulties. In Sudan, written and Norway and the US have done what

:19:15. > :19:17.they can to deal with the extraordinary number of displaced

:19:18. > :19:23.people as in the South freedom fighters seek to morph themselves

:19:24. > :19:26.into a government. In Eritrda, as is already been that in this ddbate,

:19:27. > :19:32.the migration is fuelling the migration that comes across into

:19:33. > :19:36.Europe. The conflict with Ethiopia in spite of international

:19:37. > :19:42.arbitration is still not yet resolved to the point I hopd the

:19:43. > :19:46.minister well mentioned when he comes to make a contribution to this

:19:47. > :19:50.debate. I believe Chris Mullin, when a minister and I when a shadow

:19:51. > :19:56.spokesmen are the only two lembers of this House to have visitdd

:19:57. > :19:59.Eritrea in living memory. Cdrtainly that benighted country needs to see

:20:00. > :20:06.the benefit of order and development. If you look Madam

:20:07. > :20:11.Deputy Speaker at Northern Tganda where the Lords resistance @rmy has

:20:12. > :20:17.caused chaos with the caves of war, huge numbers of jobless youngsters

:20:18. > :20:22.who have not got enough to leet or work, where VFL, and outstanding

:20:23. > :20:27.British organisation has bedn making such a contribution, we havd also

:20:28. > :20:32.seen the way in which terrorism were example in Kenya but also in Tunisia

:20:33. > :20:36.and Egypt destroys Torres on which these countries so rely on. It is

:20:37. > :20:43.not an accident that the terrorist make those dispositions. We have

:20:44. > :20:47.heard about Bernie's tonight -- Brady tonight where this order of

:20:48. > :20:52.death, hundreds of thousands of refugees are currently in play. What

:20:53. > :20:55.a contrast that is to Rwand` next door which is so peaceful and

:20:56. > :21:00.stable. Rwanda, and assured Mary development partner for Britain

:21:01. > :21:04.which has lifted 1 million of its citizens out of poverty in the last

:21:05. > :21:11.four years. And being great progress because this is a country where from

:21:12. > :21:15.the top corruption is camped out and we know that they will do exactly

:21:16. > :21:17.the money they receive from the the money they receive from the

:21:18. > :21:22.international community. Sole ten years ago they could only fhnd 8%

:21:23. > :21:27.of their budget, today they are funding over 60% and Rwanda is an

:21:28. > :21:32.example of what progress can be made. As I say it stands in stark

:21:33. > :21:37.contrast to what is happening next door in variety. Of course there is

:21:38. > :21:41.more to do on political space add-on media space. It has not alw`ys been

:21:42. > :21:47.an easy relationship. I pass over the extraordinary and holy wrong and

:21:48. > :21:51.president of the Rwandan Director of security under a managed European

:21:52. > :21:54.arrest won it last year. But we should not forget that the dssence

:21:55. > :21:57.of this relationship is that following the genocide, Britain has

:21:58. > :22:00.been a powerful partner and influencer of the government and

:22:01. > :22:04.Rwanda and the British people in their relationship with the Rwandan

:22:05. > :22:11.people have seen it him and is growth of security, is the `bility

:22:12. > :22:15.and increasingly of prosperhty. Lastly, Madam Deputy Speaker,

:22:16. > :22:18.Somalia which I visited four times as secretary of state and s`w the

:22:19. > :22:25.way for example that Mogadishu in the past a beautiful city, had been

:22:26. > :22:31.reduced to rubble. And all survived was rampant. This was a dirdct

:22:32. > :22:37.danger to the UK, as an exalple where conflict not only bars and

:22:38. > :22:40.destroys the lives of the pdople of Somalia, it also threatens ts on the

:22:41. > :22:44.streets of Britain. Not long ago there were more British passport

:22:45. > :22:49.holders training in terror camps in the Molly at Dan and either

:22:50. > :22:57.Afghanistan or Pakistan. So they were a direct danger to the UK and

:22:58. > :23:01.now my best is slowly being made. The success of the initiatives

:23:02. > :23:06.launched by our Prime Minister at the London conference in 2002

:23:07. > :23:14.following the dreadful famine there has been very successful and is

:23:15. > :23:17.making steady if disjointed progress. Madam Deputy Speaker, and

:23:18. > :23:22.all of these countries we sde climate change hitting the poorest

:23:23. > :23:30.people first and hardest. One of the reasons for the massacres in Darfur,

:23:31. > :23:34.the effect of climate changd on crops and on the ability of animals

:23:35. > :23:39.to withstand the drugs which are an increasing feature. Britain is

:23:40. > :23:43.making its contribution there and a very important area. In conflicts,

:23:44. > :23:48.which has rightly been described as development in reverse, the key aim

:23:49. > :23:51.of British policy is to stop conflict starting want and H started

:23:52. > :23:57.to stop it and once it is over to reconcile the bowl. The much closer

:23:58. > :24:00.relations between development defence and diplomacy would have

:24:01. > :24:03.been either too in this deb`te came about because the coalition

:24:04. > :24:09.government set up the national Security Council -- alluded to in