10/02/2016

:00:00. > :00:07.I hope the House will join me in mum coming to the Sergeant 's chair the

:00:08. > :00:17.new Sergeant on the occasion of his first Prime Minister's Questions. An

:00:18. > :00:23.exceptional day and an exceptional response. Secondly, I hope the House

:00:24. > :00:27.might wish to join me and congratulations very warmly Kim

:00:28. > :00:34.Sears and Andy Murray on the birth of their baby daughter. Order,

:00:35. > :00:39.order. Motion on the Committee of Selection. The question is as on the

:00:40. > :00:56.order paper. Questions to the Secretary of State

:00:57. > :01:03.for Scotland. We don't take points of order now. Later. Points of order

:01:04. > :01:12.come after questions and statements. We start with questions. I am sure

:01:13. > :01:17.everyone, particularly in Scotland, will share your warm wishes to Andy

:01:18. > :01:23.Murray and Kim Sears on the birth of their daughter. Latest official

:01:24. > :01:29.statistics published last month showed that in 2014, around 42% of

:01:30. > :01:33.all Scottish international exports were destined for countries within

:01:34. > :01:41.the European Union, the values of these were estimated at around ?11.6

:01:42. > :01:44.billion. Does the Secretary of State agree with me that the package the

:01:45. > :01:48.Prime Minister will be discussing in more detail with his colleagues on

:01:49. > :01:52.the European Council will bring about much-needed reform and

:01:53. > :01:56.actually be a catalyst for more performing the future making it

:01:57. > :02:05.quite clear the single market is good for the UK and good for

:02:06. > :02:10.Scotland. In a reformed EU, we could have the best of both worlds. Access

:02:11. > :02:14.to the single market while not being a member of the euro or Schengen.

:02:15. > :02:25.And I believe that would be good for Scotland and the rest of the UK.

:02:26. > :02:29.Single European market and the ability to impact the legislation

:02:30. > :02:34.that governs it is hugely important to the Scottish economy, especially

:02:35. > :02:37.the exporting sectors such as whiskey. All the Secretary of State

:02:38. > :02:40.confirm that regardless of the ongoing biggest nations, he will

:02:41. > :02:48.personally campaign for Scotland and the UK to remain within the EU. The

:02:49. > :02:51.honourable gentleman will know, and I'm sure will be pleased to have

:02:52. > :02:55.heard that the leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist

:02:56. > :03:06.party has expressed exactly that position. I get a second bite at the

:03:07. > :03:10.cherry. Perhaps at the end of the question, he can answer whether he

:03:11. > :03:14.will support Scotland and the UK remaining in the EU? Making a

:03:15. > :03:17.positive case for remaining in the EU will be crucial in the weeks and

:03:18. > :03:27.months ahead so will the Secretary of State give a commitment not to

:03:28. > :03:30.repeat the grinding negativity, and repeat ridiculous scare stories such

:03:31. > :03:36.as those from the Prime Minister about refugees and the immigrant

:03:37. > :03:39.camp in Calais. I will make my position known when the negotiations

:03:40. > :03:44.have been concluded. I make this offer to the honourable gentleman,

:03:45. > :03:49.if the reform package goes ahead and if I am campaigning to keep Scotland

:03:50. > :03:56.in the United Kingdom, I would be delighted to join him, and the First

:03:57. > :04:05.Minister, on a platform to make that case. I had the pleasure last night

:04:06. > :04:08.of meeting with the Scotch Whisky Association who introduced me to

:04:09. > :04:25.some of the finer products from across the border. Would the

:04:26. > :04:28.Minister ... Expansion into new markets which have nothing to do

:04:29. > :04:35.with the EU is the growth area for the whiskey industry. There arch and

:04:36. > :04:41.as opportunities for the development of the Scotch whiskey industry and

:04:42. > :04:45.it is an issue on which I think both the Scottish Government, UK

:04:46. > :04:50.Government, all parties in this House are united. We recently, when

:04:51. > :04:54.the president of China what here in the UK, had the opportunity to

:04:55. > :04:59.present the President's wife with her favourite bottle of malt whiskey

:05:00. > :05:04.from Scotland and both the president and his good lady wife were able to

:05:05. > :05:12.set out how important that product is to developing markets in China. I

:05:13. > :05:16.wonder if the Secretary of State could tell me what discussions he

:05:17. > :05:19.has had with Scottish businesses about the possibility of the UK exit

:05:20. > :05:23.from the EU and what concerns they have raised about the impact this

:05:24. > :05:29.would have on their ability to access and export to single markets?

:05:30. > :05:33.The clearest message I get from businesses in Scotland is that they

:05:34. > :05:45.want a short EU referendum campaign so that we have the minimum amount

:05:46. > :05:48.of uncertainty. Question number two. I have regular discussions with the

:05:49. > :05:53.Deputy First Minister to discuss the Frisco framework, the joint ticks

:05:54. > :05:59.decker committee met on Monday and these are on going. The First

:06:00. > :06:05.Minister route to the Prime Minister and set out areas where agreements

:06:06. > :06:11.needs to be reached. He listed those as capital and revenue borrowing,

:06:12. > :06:15.fiscal oversight and dispute resolution. Can the Secretary of

:06:16. > :06:20.State confirm these are all the outstanding issues where agreements

:06:21. > :06:23.needs to be reached? Then nature of the discussions is that it was

:06:24. > :06:29.agreed at the start until everything is agreed, nothing is agreed.

:06:30. > :06:32.Considerable progress has been made on all of those issues. I'd very

:06:33. > :06:39.much welcome what the First Minister says in that letter, that the

:06:40. > :06:42.finance secretary is going to bring forward revised proposals from the

:06:43. > :06:47.Scottish Government. That is what a negotiation involves, it involves

:06:48. > :06:50.both parties bringing forward revised proposals as the negotiation

:06:51. > :06:57.progresses and that is exactly what the UK Government is committed to

:06:58. > :07:01.doing. The starting point of the fiscal framework discussions is the

:07:02. > :07:05.Barnett Formula which means that Scotland has 15% extra public

:07:06. > :07:09.spending per capita than the UK as an average. Could the Secretary of

:07:10. > :07:16.State informed the House whether he believes that differential will

:07:17. > :07:19.maintain in perpetuity? The honourable gentleman's views on the

:07:20. > :07:23.Barnett Formula are well-known. I don't agree with them, nor does the

:07:24. > :07:27.government. The government's position is that the Barnett Formula

:07:28. > :07:37.will remain, even in the fiscal framework environment. The

:07:38. > :07:40.negotiations about the fiscal framework are a very sensitive and

:07:41. > :07:45.fragile state. We have to be careful about the language that is used. The

:07:46. > :07:54.Secretary of State was using in which like Luke is ludicrous -- I

:07:55. > :07:59.would like ludicrous. It is profoundly unhelpful. If he has

:08:00. > :08:11.nothing to offer these negotiations and discussions, will he offer to

:08:12. > :08:14.stay out of it? I find it ought to take a lecture from that particular

:08:15. > :08:23.honourable gentleman on moderate language. But I don't think anybody

:08:24. > :08:29.can doubt my commitment to ensuring that we have a negotiated fiscal

:08:30. > :08:35.framework. I am delighted that the First Minister in her letter to the

:08:36. > :08:38.Prime Minister set out her strong commitment to achieve that

:08:39. > :08:42.agreement. That is the Prime Minister's position. As I said, both

:08:43. > :08:49.sides have done the dance, let's do the deal. With my right honourable

:08:50. > :08:53.friend agree that if we are to have a successful devolution agreement

:08:54. > :08:58.that we all want, it does need a firm and sensible framework, fiscal

:08:59. > :09:04.discipline, so it will last and stand the test of will be on no

:09:05. > :09:12.economic issues that may hit the country. Can he assure us that we

:09:13. > :09:14.won't repeat the mistakes of Spain where devolved provinces run up

:09:15. > :09:18.unsustainable debts which they would then blame on Madrid and cause

:09:19. > :09:24.difficulty for the Spanish government seeking recovery? Has my

:09:25. > :09:29.honourable friend will recognise, the settlement within Spain is quite

:09:30. > :09:35.different. I do agree with him on the need for the sustainability of

:09:36. > :09:39.the fiscal framework. What the government has made quite clear in

:09:40. > :09:44.terms of the negotiations, is our willingness to see the arrangements,

:09:45. > :09:47.reviewed within a few years to make sure that they do stand up to the

:09:48. > :09:55.scrutiny of being fed to Scotland and fair to the rest of the UK. I'd

:09:56. > :09:59.like to join you in congratulating Andy Murray and Kim Sears on the

:10:00. > :10:03.birth of their baby daughter. Actually, their baby daughter may be

:10:04. > :10:07.winning Wimbledon by the time we get a deal on the fiscal framework. The

:10:08. > :10:11.UK and Scottish governments have been negotiating for over six

:10:12. > :10:15.months. Longer than it took to negotiate the Scotland Bill itself,

:10:16. > :10:25.to strike the historic international climate change agreement and longer

:10:26. > :10:28.it took the G20 leaders to agree on the global economy. Can the

:10:29. > :10:33.Secretary of State tell the House why he thinks the per capita index

:10:34. > :10:38.model isn't the appropriate for the block grant?

:10:39. > :10:45.I have made it clear that we're not going to have the detailed

:10:46. > :10:50.negotiation in relation to this matter on the floor of this House.

:10:51. > :10:54.What I said earlier was I very much welcome the fact that the First

:10:55. > :10:59.Minister has indicated that the Scottish Government is going to

:11:00. > :11:03.bring forward a revised proposal, through the negotiations we have

:11:04. > :11:08.brought forward proposals, and I believe we are in touching distance

:11:09. > :11:13.of striking a deal and me not to miss the people do so. The Secretary

:11:14. > :11:16.of State says he will not provide a running commentary on the fiscal

:11:17. > :11:20.framework, while both governments are providing that very common to

:11:21. > :11:27.the. A respected economist has said, I do not understand why it should be

:11:28. > :11:31.such a huge stumbling lock, and a constitutional expert has said, the

:11:32. > :11:35.fiscal framework is a solvable problem. The Prime Minister has

:11:36. > :11:43.spent months going around Europe, trying to strike a deal on EU law,

:11:44. > :11:49.and is it not in time -- about time he gets involved in the Sun spends

:11:50. > :11:53.as much time on this? The Prime Minister is committed to securing a

:11:54. > :11:59.deal. He has spoken to Nicola Sturgeon on this issue. They have

:12:00. > :12:02.had a productive discussion and exchange of letters, but both of

:12:03. > :12:08.them are clear that they want to get a deal, and I am confident that with

:12:09. > :12:17.the position set out in the letter from the First Minister, the

:12:18. > :12:20.Scottish Government are actively engaging in that process, as are we,

:12:21. > :12:28.and we will be able to get that deal. On the 28th of January, the

:12:29. > :12:33.Prime Minister held discussions with industry representatives in Aberdeen

:12:34. > :12:40.on further support for the North Sea. As a member of the group on oil

:12:41. > :12:48.and gas, I also meet with key stakeholders on a regular basis.

:12:49. > :12:54.Calor gas has its largest operational UK site in my

:12:55. > :12:59.constituency. A number of residents in the Scottish Highlands and other

:13:00. > :13:02.rural areas rely on Calor gas, who received a large part of the

:13:03. > :13:07.Scottish gas supplies from the North Sea. Does my right honourable friend

:13:08. > :13:10.agree that as a result of the support UK Government is able to

:13:11. > :13:18.provide, we are in a much better place to absorb the following oil

:13:19. > :13:27.prices had been the case if Scotland had been an independent country? I

:13:28. > :13:33.do acknowledge the importance of Calor gas and those who supply of

:13:34. > :13:39.the network energy. They are very important in rural Scotland. But on

:13:40. > :13:46.his wider point, yes, he makes an important point about the ability of

:13:47. > :13:54.the United Kingdom as a whole to absorb the changing oil price. What

:13:55. > :13:58.discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Chancellor about

:13:59. > :14:07.continued funding for seismic surveys on the UK continental shelf?

:14:08. > :14:13.I am sure she welcomed the Prime Minister's announcement when he was

:14:14. > :14:20.in Aberdeen of a ?20 million contribution for a second round of

:14:21. > :14:26.new seismic surveys. The severity of the collapse in global oil prices

:14:27. > :14:29.carries with it the danger that a number of fields in the North Sea

:14:30. > :14:37.will suspend production and then perhaps never presume it. Given that

:14:38. > :14:41.this would represent a serious loss of national assets and

:14:42. > :14:44.infrastructure, may I invite the Secretary of State for Scotland to

:14:45. > :14:48.have further discussions with the Chancellor in advance of the budget

:14:49. > :14:54.to try to make sure that these fields are not lost for ever, but

:14:55. > :15:02.remain an important part of our national economy? It will not

:15:03. > :15:08.surprise him to know that that very issue was part of the discussion

:15:09. > :15:13.with the Prime Minister, Fergus Ewing from the Scottish Government,

:15:14. > :15:17.and representatives from the oil and gas industry in Aberdeen. The Prime

:15:18. > :15:21.Minister made it very clear that he will look at specific requests are

:15:22. > :15:32.proposals in relation to supporting the industry in the forthcoming

:15:33. > :15:36.budget. With your permission I will take question four and nine

:15:37. > :15:39.together. On behalf of the Secretary of State for work and Pensions

:15:40. > :15:43.Committee with the Secretary of State for Scotland regularly to

:15:44. > :15:45.discuss devolution of welfare programmes to the Scottish

:15:46. > :15:49.Government, including a meeting yesterday where we discussed the

:15:50. > :15:52.ever improving labour market in Scotland. I also have regular

:15:53. > :15:56.meetings with my counterparts in the Scottish Government and we have a

:15:57. > :16:00.joint ministerial working group. I will be speaking to model to the

:16:01. > :16:10.Cabinet Secretary for the work and children and jump people in

:16:11. > :16:16.Scotland. -- young people. In the Autumn Statement, funding was cut by

:16:17. > :16:21.87% so the Scottish Government now has only ?7 million to deliver

:16:22. > :16:25.services. Notwithstanding the acceptance that this was a

:16:26. > :16:30.politically motivated decision, what does he say to my constituents in

:16:31. > :16:35.one of the highest areas of deprivation in the United Kingdom,

:16:36. > :16:42.who are, after all, the people this is going to impact most of all? I

:16:43. > :16:47.would start by hoping that she will welcome the fact that in her

:16:48. > :16:52.constituency employment kind has increased by 49% since 2010. We have

:16:53. > :16:57.record levels of employment in Scotland. When it comes to

:16:58. > :17:01.employment programmes, there will be greater devolution for the Scottish

:17:02. > :17:03.Government in welfare, and when it comes to employment programmes we

:17:04. > :17:07.would be happy to have discussions with the Scottish Government in

:17:08. > :17:12.particular. Many of which will look at how we take employment programmes

:17:13. > :17:19.further to support those out of work in Scotland who want to work. Due to

:17:20. > :17:25.the changes from DLA to PIP, thousands of Scots are losing their

:17:26. > :17:29.right to motor bill the vehicles. This is devastating in rural areas

:17:30. > :17:38.where accessible public transport may be limited. Will this iniquitous

:17:39. > :17:43.policy be ended? There will be new powers under the devolution deal

:17:44. > :17:47.which will include top up payments which are still very much based on

:17:48. > :17:52.welfare payments as well. It will be down to the Scottish Government to

:17:53. > :17:54.start making these decisions. You have power is coming to you, you

:17:55. > :18:03.have to start deciding how to use them. It was thanks to Labour peers

:18:04. > :18:08.in the other place that an additional cack-handed approach to

:18:09. > :18:11.tax credits were brought to an end. We know now that the government

:18:12. > :18:22.wants to introduce changes which will leave 800,000 people on tax

:18:23. > :18:28.credits worse off in April. How many people in Scotland will be affected?

:18:29. > :18:32.As I previously said, when the House has discussed issues of welfare

:18:33. > :18:37.changes, we have the bill going through the other place right now,

:18:38. > :18:40.but the changes we are making are there to bring fairness and

:18:41. > :18:46.stability to the welfare bill in this country. At the same time,

:18:47. > :18:50.despite the figures that the honourable gentleman and the party

:18:51. > :19:08.opposite mention constantly, it The employment rate in Scotland has

:19:09. > :19:16.never been higher, and our support will build on this, recognising that

:19:17. > :19:22.changes to the labour market -- gives value for money to the

:19:23. > :19:25.taxpayer. We have many examples of businesses commercial operations

:19:26. > :19:29.north of the border helps to sustain jobs locally, such as engineering

:19:30. > :19:40.and transport companies. Does the Minister agree that Scotland creates

:19:41. > :19:46.a great deal of employment across the whole of the United Kingdom? She

:19:47. > :19:50.is right to say with record levels of poignant in Scotland, her

:19:51. > :19:51.constituency has benefited from the crossover of employment

:19:52. > :20:05.opportunities in her constituency and in Scotland. With our growing

:20:06. > :20:11.economy, that will continue to grow. Scotland's youth and point is fact

:20:12. > :20:18.its highest level since 2005. 7% higher than the rest of UK. Can the

:20:19. > :20:24.Secretary of State reassure me that recommendations will be made to make

:20:25. > :20:28.sure Scotland receives a fair level of funding for apprenticeships? I

:20:29. > :20:32.would say to him, I did not fully hear his question, but I will take

:20:33. > :20:36.that away and I understand the department will look at that. It is

:20:37. > :20:42.a serious situation of ministers cannot hear the questions. It is a

:20:43. > :20:45.discourtesy to the people of Scotland when we are discussing

:20:46. > :20:54.these matters if questions cannot be heard. Let us have some order. I

:20:55. > :20:56.have had discussions with the Department for Transport and others

:20:57. > :21:02.to ensure that the closure of the lamington viaduct in my constituency

:21:03. > :21:06.is addressed as quickly as possible. We are committed to working together

:21:07. > :21:16.with parties to reopen the west Coast mainline in the first week of

:21:17. > :21:20.March. Apologies for my lack of voice. The closure of the West Coast

:21:21. > :21:27.mainline has a huge impact not only on the economy of southern Scotland,

:21:28. > :21:31.but of Cumbria as well. It is a strategic crossing that many

:21:32. > :21:34.constituents rely on. The Secretary of State says it will be open on the

:21:35. > :21:43.first week of March. And he confirmed that the entirety will be

:21:44. > :21:45.open by then? -- can he confirmed? I welcome her comments because she

:21:46. > :21:49.will be aware that my own constituents who use Lockerbie

:21:50. > :21:55.station at the people who are most affected by these changes. But we

:21:56. > :22:04.are determined to get the West Coast mainline fully reopened in that

:22:05. > :22:07.first week in March. The Prime Minister claims that he is going to

:22:08. > :22:12.get a good deal for Britain in the European Union. With the Secretary

:22:13. > :22:17.of State like to see the United Kingdom play the same role and at

:22:18. > :22:26.the same level of powers in the EU that Scotland currently has, he

:22:27. > :22:30.claims, in the UK? Related to the West Coast Main line, I of the

:22:31. > :22:37.Secretary of State will give us an answer. The West Coast mainline is

:22:38. > :22:44.one of the most important routes within the United Kingdom to Europe

:22:45. > :22:52.via London. I have set out my position in relation to the EU

:22:53. > :22:54.referendum. I think it is important that if the SNP genuinely wants

:22:55. > :23:05.Scotland to remain in the EU than concentrate on process issues, they

:23:06. > :23:09.get out and campaign for it. Mr Speaker, I do not know of the

:23:10. > :23:13.honourable gentleman has had the opportunity to read my speech of

:23:14. > :23:19.21st of December, where I set out that I fully support devolution of

:23:20. > :23:20.power from Holyrood to local communities, as Lord Smith

:23:21. > :23:24.recommended in his commission agreement. This is the

:23:25. > :23:31.responsibility of the Scottish Parliament to implement, but I

:23:32. > :23:37.encourage them to do so. Will the Secretary of State condemned those

:23:38. > :23:41.who use devolution to actually centralise power in Holyrood,

:23:42. > :23:49.whether that is the centralisation of the police, Fire Service, health

:23:50. > :23:55.spending, local government spending, courts, colleges or enterprise

:23:56. > :23:58.companies, will he ensure that he stands together who feel devolution

:23:59. > :24:03.does not stop at Holyrood but goes down to Scottish local authorities

:24:04. > :24:08.and to the Scottish people? I agree with what he says and I can tell him

:24:09. > :24:13.the best way to achieve it. Under Ruth Davidson to elect more Scottish

:24:14. > :24:21.Conservative MSPs to the Scottish Parliament. In the interest of the

:24:22. > :24:24.record, can the Secretary of State confirm that under the powers that

:24:25. > :24:35.are being devolved as part of the current Scotland Bill, the Scottish

:24:36. > :24:39.Government will be able to change rates of income tax... Order. I

:24:40. > :24:44.apologise to the honourable gentleman. The Secretary of State

:24:45. > :24:51.could not hear the question because of a rude eruption of noise. Perhaps

:24:52. > :24:59.he could ask his question again and members could have the common

:25:00. > :25:04.courtesy to allow him to be heard. We are getting used to this. In the

:25:05. > :25:08.interests of the record, can the Secretary of State confirm that

:25:09. > :25:11.under the paint -- powers that are currently being devolved as part of

:25:12. > :25:16.the Scotland Bill, the Scottish Government will be able to change

:25:17. > :25:19.rates and bands of the Scottish rate of income tax, allowing them to make

:25:20. > :25:26.progress of choices on these additional powers, and that Labour

:25:27. > :25:30.have made plans to raise Scottish income tax that everyone before

:25:31. > :25:37.these powers are transferred... We have got the gist. Embers need to

:25:38. > :25:43.learn the merits of the blue pencil. If they use the blue pencil and

:25:44. > :25:51.questions were shorter, they would benefit. We will take on -- Scotland

:25:52. > :25:57.will take on these tax powers as they see fit. I hope they use them

:25:58. > :26:00.to make Scotland a more attractive place for business and commerce,

:26:01. > :26:11.grow the economy and the Scottish population. My right honourable

:26:12. > :26:16.friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has had a number of

:26:17. > :26:19.discussions with ordinations includes the -- including the

:26:20. > :26:23.Scottish Whisky Association and Oil and Gas UK. It is because of its

:26:24. > :26:28.commitment to our long-term economic ban and prosperity that we have seen

:26:29. > :26:31.such a growth in the Scottish economy. Thank goodness the good

:26:32. > :26:38.people of Scotland voted to stay within the United Kingdom and reject

:26:39. > :26:43.independence. Research shows that Scottish Opera workers could lose

:26:44. > :26:48.?1300 annually as stores increasingly abandon their Sunday

:26:49. > :27:01.pay rates in light of Sandy trading regulations. Would he take these up

:27:02. > :27:06.with the secretary? -- Scottish shop workers. What we intend to do is

:27:07. > :27:09.devolved powers to local authorities they make the decisions as to what

:27:10. > :27:12.is in the best interests of people locally, including local people who

:27:13. > :27:17.may want to shop on a Sunday, and the interest of nurses who may want

:27:18. > :27:22.to open more liberally on a Sunday to take full advantage. These are

:27:23. > :27:25.good ideas, and I hope she might consider supporting it. Questions to

:27:26. > :27:43.the Prime Minister. I know the House has been saddened

:27:44. > :27:46.by the death of Harry Harper, after a great career, an adviser to David

:27:47. > :27:50.Blunkett, he was returned to this place last May, succeeding David

:27:51. > :27:54.Blunkett himself. He was in this place a short time and became a

:27:55. > :27:59.popular MP, recognised for his commitment to his constituents and

:28:00. > :28:04.his beliefs. He continued to carry out his work, as an MP, throughout

:28:05. > :28:10.his treatment, we offer his wife and their five children our condolences.

:28:11. > :28:13.This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and in

:28:14. > :28:19.additional to Mike Judy 's in this House, I will have further comments

:28:20. > :28:26.to make -- in addition to my duties in this House. I would like to agree

:28:27. > :28:29.about the sad loss for the member of Sheffield and Hillsborough, he came

:28:30. > :28:35.to this House with an excellent record in local government and will

:28:36. > :28:39.be sadly missed. The whole House send our condolences to his family

:28:40. > :28:46.at this sad time. Housing is the number one issue in my constituency,

:28:47. > :28:50.queries on a workable local plan, looking after our green spaces and

:28:51. > :28:57.strongly offering the Conservative value of the right to buy, would the

:28:58. > :29:02.Prime Minister agree that the help to buy items, with one being taken

:29:03. > :29:15.out every 30 seconds, is the right way to promote savings and encourage

:29:16. > :29:24.homeownership? -- ISAs. I agree, that is why these help to buy ISAs,

:29:25. > :29:27.where we matched the money they put in, it can ready help, and so what

:29:28. > :29:32.we have seen under this government, is 40,000 people exercise their

:29:33. > :29:36.right to buy their council House, now we're extending that to all

:29:37. > :29:41.housing association tenants and we have seen 130,000 people would help

:29:42. > :29:44.to buy, getting the first flat or the first House, and there is more

:29:45. > :29:53.to do, mostly building houses, but helping people with their deposits

:29:54. > :29:58.is vital. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I joined the Prime

:29:59. > :30:04.Minister and the member for Eastleigh in paying tribute to Harry

:30:05. > :30:07.Harper, the Honourable member for Sheffield and Hillsborough, a former

:30:08. > :30:10.miner who passed away last week, just a short time ago Harry used his

:30:11. > :30:17.glass question here to ask the Prime Minister questions about the

:30:18. > :30:24.Sheffield Masters and the steel industry -- his last question. I

:30:25. > :30:28.hope the primers to reflects on his -- hope the Prime Minister reflects

:30:29. > :30:35.on his diligence regarding that part of his committee. I said to his

:30:36. > :30:40.wife, how would they like to remember Harry? She said, we have

:30:41. > :30:44.admired the bravery and carriage he showed in his life, which was formed

:30:45. > :30:51.in June the miners strike and which carried him forward for the rest of

:30:52. > :30:58.his life -- which was formed jeering the miners strike. People will

:30:59. > :31:04.remember him as a decent man, and we are very sad at his passing. Mr

:31:05. > :31:09.Speaker, also following the member for Eastleigh, I have a question on

:31:10. > :31:18.housing. I have an e-mail from Rosie, cheese in her 20s. -- she is

:31:19. > :31:31.in her 20s. CHEERING LAUGHTER

:31:32. > :31:38.Unfortunately, the Rosie who has written to me does not have the same

:31:39. > :31:49.good housing that the Chief Whip of our party does. But aspiration

:31:50. > :31:57.springs eternal. The Rosie who has written to me, cheese in 20s and she

:31:58. > :32:01.says, " -- she is in her 20s and she says, "I worked very hard at my job

:32:02. > :32:07.and I'm still having to live at home with my parents, the lack of housing

:32:08. > :32:13.options are forcing her to consider moving, she says. She asks the Prime

:32:14. > :32:17.Minister, what action it he is going to take to help young people and

:32:18. > :32:23.families suffering from on realistic healths prizes and uncapped rents to

:32:24. > :32:30.get somewhere safe and secure to live? -- House prices. When you get

:32:31. > :32:37.a letter from the Chief Whip, that normally spells trouble, I should

:32:38. > :32:41.say. What I would say to Rosie, we want to do everything we can to help

:32:42. > :32:46.young people get on the housing ladder, that is why we have these

:32:47. > :32:51.help to save ISAs and I hope she is looking at that, we are cutting

:32:52. > :32:56.taxes and she will be able to earn ?11,000 before she starts paying any

:32:57. > :32:59.taxes. If Rosie is a tenant in a housing association home, she can

:33:00. > :33:04.buy that home because we are introducing and extending the right

:33:05. > :33:07.to buy, and with help to bite she will have the opportunity to

:33:08. > :33:13.register for help to buy which gives people the chance to have a small

:33:14. > :33:17.deposit, but still a chance of owning their own home. If she wants

:33:18. > :33:21.to be a homeowner, shared ownership can make a real difference and in

:33:22. > :33:26.some parts of the country you will need a deposit of just a few

:33:27. > :33:29.thousand pounds to begin the process of becoming a homeowner, but Ira

:33:30. > :33:37.lies that building more houses, we have got to deliver for Rosie -- but

:33:38. > :33:40.building more buildings. I'm very pleased that the Prime Minister

:33:41. > :33:44.would like to help deliver decent housing, Rosie lives and works in

:33:45. > :33:50.London, as the Prime Minister knows, London is very expensive. He talks

:33:51. > :33:53.about people getting on the housing ladder, but the reality is, home

:33:54. > :33:58.ownership has fallen under his government by 200,000 and it rose by

:33:59. > :34:01.a million and the last Labour government, and his record is one of

:34:02. > :34:07.actually some years of failure on housing. He said that council homes

:34:08. > :34:11.sold on the right to buy would be replaced like the like, can be

:34:12. > :34:19.primers to tell us how that policy is panning out? -- Gandhi Prime

:34:20. > :34:25.Minister. -- can the Prime Minister. What happened under Labour, one

:34:26. > :34:30.council home was built for every hundred and seven seat council homes

:34:31. > :34:35.they sold. That is the record -- 170. We have said we will make sure

:34:36. > :34:42.that two homes are built for every council home in London, that is so,

:34:43. > :34:46.that is because the member for Richmond insisted on that in an

:34:47. > :34:51.amendment to the housing bill. These take some years to build, but the

:34:52. > :34:58.money that they will be built, the money comes back to the Treasury.

:34:59. > :35:02.The Prime Minister should be aware that just one home has been built

:35:03. > :35:06.for every eight that have been sold under his government. People are

:35:07. > :35:12.increasingly finding it very devil called find anywhere to live. The

:35:13. > :35:17.Chancellor's crude cuts in housing benefit for those in supported

:35:18. > :35:21.housing, they are putting at risk hundreds of thousands of elderly

:35:22. > :35:23.people, people with mental health condition, war veterans and women

:35:24. > :35:29.fleeing domestic violence unit support. Can the Prime Minister tell

:35:30. > :35:33.the House what estimate housing dividers have made in terms of the

:35:34. > :35:41.impact of this policy on supported housing? We are going to increase

:35:42. > :35:44.housing supply in the social sector by an ?8 billion housing budget gym

:35:45. > :35:50.this parliament which will build 400,000 affordable homes. When it

:35:51. > :35:54.comes to our reforms of housing benefit, yes, we have cut housing

:35:55. > :35:57.benefit, because it was out of control when we came to government.

:35:58. > :36:04.There were families in London who were getting ?100,000 of housing

:36:05. > :36:11.benefit per family. Think how many people, think how many Rosie's were

:36:12. > :36:16.going to work, working hard, just to provide that housing benefit for one

:36:17. > :36:19.family. We support supported housing schemes and we will look very

:36:20. > :36:22.carefully to make sure they can work well in the future, but I make no

:36:23. > :36:29.apology for the fact that in this parliament we are cutting social

:36:30. > :36:32.rents, so for Rosie, for example, living in social housing, going out

:36:33. > :36:37.to work but she will have lower rent under this government. I'm pleased

:36:38. > :36:43.the Prime Minister got onto the question of supported housing.

:36:44. > :36:48.Housing providers estimate that nearly half of all supported housing

:36:49. > :36:51.schemes will close, one in four providers are set to close all of

:36:52. > :37:00.their provision, this is a very serious crisis. I assume the Prime

:37:01. > :37:02.Minister is not content to people with mental health conditions with

:37:03. > :37:06.nowhere to live, so can he assure the House that the warm words he has

:37:07. > :37:10.given on supported housing will be matched by action and he will stop

:37:11. > :37:15.this cut which will destroy this supported housing sector? We will

:37:16. > :37:19.continue to support the supported housing sector and the report that

:37:20. > :37:23.he quotes from, it was an opinion poll with an extremely leading

:37:24. > :37:27.question, if he actually looks at what it was he was looking at. The

:37:28. > :37:32.changes that we are making, reducing social rents by 1%, every year for

:37:33. > :37:36.four years, that is good news for people who go out to work and work

:37:37. > :37:39.hard and like to pay less rent. That goes with the lower taxes they will

:37:40. > :37:43.be paying and the more childcare they will be getting, and the other

:37:44. > :37:47.change we are making which does not come into force until 2018, is to

:37:48. > :37:52.make sure that we are not paying housing benefit to social tenants

:37:53. > :37:57.way above what we would pay to private sector tenants. The simple

:37:58. > :38:01.point is this, and this is where I think Labour had got to focus, every

:38:02. > :38:06.penny you spend on housing subsidy is money you can't spend on building

:38:07. > :38:10.houses -- have got to focus. Let's take this right back to Rosie in the

:38:11. > :38:12.beginning, it she would like a country where we build homes that

:38:13. > :38:16.she would like a country where she can buy a home, she would like a

:38:17. > :38:23.country with a strong economy so you can afford to buy a home, all of

:38:24. > :38:29.those things we are delivering, but you will not deliver these if you go

:38:30. > :38:32.on subsidising housing, and the welfare benefit, one day Labour has

:38:33. > :38:38.got to realise that the welfare benefit has got to be brought under

:38:39. > :38:42.control. -- the welfare system. Shelter estimates that the measures

:38:43. > :38:46.in the housing bill will lose 180,000 affordable homes over the

:38:47. > :38:50.next four years. The Prime Minister is overseeing a very damaging

:38:51. > :38:54.housing crisis, it is prising out people from buying, it is not

:38:55. > :39:01.providing enough social housing, therefore many people are forced to

:39:02. > :39:05.rely on the private rented sector. The benches behind him recently

:39:06. > :39:10.voted against an amendment but forward by my honourable friend or

:39:11. > :39:16.homes to be fit for human habitation. -- for. Labour invested

:39:17. > :39:23.?22 billion in government, in bringing social homes at two decent

:39:24. > :39:28.homes standard, and there are now 11 million people in this country who

:39:29. > :39:31.are private renters. Does the Prime Minister know how many of those

:39:32. > :39:38.homes do not meet the decent homes standard? To listen to Labour, when

:39:39. > :39:44.in the last five years, we built for council houses than they built in 13

:39:45. > :39:50.years. -- we built more. Where was he? Where was he when that was going

:39:51. > :39:58.on? 13 years and I hope this record on housing. What we are doing is an

:39:59. > :40:00.?8 billion housing budget, that will provide 400,000 new affordable homes

:40:01. > :40:04.and a target to build a million homes during this Parliament,

:40:05. > :40:07.getting housing benefit down so we can spend money on housing and

:40:08. > :40:15.having a strong economy that can support the housing we need. Mr

:40:16. > :40:19.Speaker, I was asking through you, the Prime Minister, how many of the

:40:20. > :40:25.11 million renters are living in homes that are not going to make the

:40:26. > :40:32.decent homes standard and therefore are substandard? 1000 of those in

:40:33. > :40:36.the private rented sector do not meet that standard and shells found

:40:37. > :40:41.six out of ten renters have issues like damp, mould, leaking roofs and

:40:42. > :40:47.Windows, it is simply not good enough -- shelter found. Millions

:40:48. > :40:49.are struggling to get the homes they deserve, more families slipping into

:40:50. > :40:55.temporary accommodation, homelessness rising, too few homes

:40:56. > :40:59.being built, social housing under pressure, families forced into low

:41:00. > :41:02.standard, overpriced rented sector, young people unable to move out of

:41:03. > :41:05.the family home and start their own lives, when is the Prime Minister

:41:06. > :41:09.going to realise that there is a housing crisis in Britain, and his

:41:10. > :41:13.government needs to address it now, so that we do not continue with this

:41:14. > :41:24.dreadful situation in this country. Homelessness is less than half the

:41:25. > :41:30.peak today than it was under the last Labour government. There is a

:41:31. > :41:35.simple point here. You can only invest in new houses, you can only

:41:36. > :41:39.restore existing houses, you can any build new houses and support people

:41:40. > :41:45.into those houses if you have a strong economy. We inherited mass

:41:46. > :41:50.unemployment, and economy that completely collapsed, a banking

:41:51. > :41:54.crisis and now we've got zero inflation, wages growing,

:41:55. > :41:57.unemployment at 5%, and economy growing and people able, for the

:41:58. > :42:00.first time, to look to their future and see they can buy and own a house

:42:01. > :42:18.in our country. Mr speak your Nadia was a

:42:19. > :42:26.19-year-old when Daesh came to her village. They tortured her, raped

:42:27. > :42:31.and made her laid. Nadia's story is the same as thousands of Yazidi

:42:32. > :42:38.women except thousands are still held in captivity and Nadia escaped.

:42:39. > :42:42.In fact, Nadia is in the public gallery today. Will the Minister

:42:43. > :42:48.join me in accepting acknowledging Nadia's bravery and resilience and

:42:49. > :43:03.the qualities that allowed her to triumph over Daesh? Will he support

:43:04. > :43:08.Yazidi women? Let me thank my friend for raising this issue and welcome

:43:09. > :43:14.Nadia, who is here with us today. Her and their Yazidi community have

:43:15. > :43:17.suffered appallingly at this murderous, brutal, fascist

:43:18. > :43:23.organisation in Syria and Iraq. We must do everything we can to defeat

:43:24. > :43:27.Daesh and its ideology. We are playing a leading role in this

:43:28. > :43:35.global coalition. In terms of Iraq, where so many Yazidis suffered,

:43:36. > :43:38.Daesh have lost 40% of the territory controlled. As I said at the time in

:43:39. > :43:45.the debate about Syria, this will take a long time. Building up Iraqi

:43:46. > :43:48.security forces, working with Syrian opposition forces, building the

:43:49. > :43:51.capacity of governments in both countries to drive this organisation

:43:52. > :43:58.out of the Middle East. However long it takes, we must stick at it. Angus

:43:59. > :44:07.Robertson. We on these benches join in the condolences in relation to

:44:08. > :44:11.Harry and pass on our condolences at this sad time to his family for

:44:12. > :44:16.supper by Minister made a vow and his party signed an agreement that

:44:17. > :44:20.there would be no detriment to Scotland with new devolution

:44:21. > :44:23.arrangements. Why is the UK Treasury proposing plans that may be

:44:24. > :44:29.detrimental towards Scotland to the tune of ?3 billion? First of all, we

:44:30. > :44:34.accept this myth principles of no detriment. No detriment to Scotland

:44:35. > :44:41.at the time when this transfer is made. -- the Smith principles. And

:44:42. > :44:45.then no detriment of Scottish taxpayers, but also to the rest of

:44:46. > :44:48.the United Kingdom taxpayers, who we have to bear in mind as we take into

:44:49. > :44:52.account this very important negotiation. I have had good

:44:53. > :44:56.negotiations with the First Minister, negotiations are underway.

:44:57. > :45:00.I want us to successfully complete this very important piece of

:45:01. > :45:04.devolution in a fair and reasonable way and these negotiations should

:45:05. > :45:09.continue. Let me remind the Right Honourable gentleman, if we had had

:45:10. > :45:14.full fiscal devolution, with oil revenues having collapsed by 94%,

:45:15. > :45:18.then the right honourable Gentleman and his party would be weeks away

:45:19. > :45:27.from a financial calamity for Scotland. Thank you. In the context

:45:28. > :45:31.of referendums, whether in Scotland or across the UK on EU membership,

:45:32. > :45:37.don't voters have a right to know that what is promised by the UK

:45:38. > :45:41.Government can be trusted and will be delivered in full. Will the Prime

:45:42. > :45:45.Minister told the Treasury Time is running out on delivering of their

:45:46. > :45:49.fiscal framework and they must do a deal that is fair both to the people

:45:50. > :45:54.of Scotland, and fair to the rest of the United Kingdom. I can tell him

:45:55. > :45:58.everything that has been committed to by this government will be

:45:59. > :46:02.delivered. We committed to this huge act of devolution to Scotland and we

:46:03. > :46:05.delivered it. We committed to the Scotland Bill and are well on the

:46:06. > :46:10.way to delivering it. All the things we said we would, including those

:46:11. > :46:14.vital Smith principles. There is an ongoing negotiations to reach a fair

:46:15. > :46:17.settlement and I would say to the Scottish First Minister and Finance

:46:18. > :46:21.Minister, they have to recognise there must be fairness across the

:46:22. > :46:25.rest of the United Kingdom as well. But with goodwill, I can tell you Mr

:46:26. > :46:30.Speaker, no one is more keen on an agreement on me. I want the Scottish

:46:31. > :46:34.National party here and in Holyrood to have to start making decisions,

:46:35. > :46:39.which taxes are you going to raise, what are you going to do with

:46:40. > :46:42.benefits? I want to get rid of, frankly, this grievance agenda and

:46:43. > :46:49.let you get on with the governing agenda and then we can see what you

:46:50. > :46:53.are made of. The skills shortage in engineering

:46:54. > :46:56.in Wildschut is particularly a problem. It is threatening and

:46:57. > :47:01.undermining all the work we have done in job creation and also

:47:02. > :47:06.supporting businesses. It is quite simply a ticking time bomb. Mr

:47:07. > :47:11.Speaker, may I ask the Prime Minister, what more can he do to

:47:12. > :47:16.remove the stigma, misunderstanding and all the problems associated

:47:17. > :47:21.around Stem subjects and careers? I think my honourable friend is right

:47:22. > :47:23.to raise this. There are special circumstances in Wiltshire because

:47:24. > :47:30.you have the enormous success of Dyson, hiring engineers and skilled

:47:31. > :47:33.mathematicians and scientists from every university in the country and

:47:34. > :47:37.long may that continue. What we will do is help by training 3 million

:47:38. > :47:42.apprentices in this parliament will stop we are giving special help

:47:43. > :47:45.teachers of Stem subjects and them into teaching. I think there was a

:47:46. > :47:49.lot business and industry can do to help us in this, by going into

:47:50. > :47:53.schools and talking about what these modern engineering careers are all

:47:54. > :47:56.about. How much the film and people can get from these careers, to

:47:57. > :48:02.encourage people to change the culture when it comes to pursuing

:48:03. > :48:08.these careers. Mr Speaker, young people are afraid of losing their

:48:09. > :48:12.homes. Women denied the pensions they were expecting an increasingly

:48:13. > :48:17.the needy left exposed without the social care they need to live a

:48:18. > :48:23.decent life. When will the Prime Minister address the scandals? What

:48:24. > :48:26.we are doing for pensioners is putting in place the triple lock so

:48:27. > :48:33.every pensioner knows there can never be another shameful 75p

:48:34. > :48:37.increase in the pension that we saw under Labour. They know that every

:48:38. > :48:42.year it will either be wages, prices or 2.5%. That is why the pension is

:48:43. > :48:45.so much higher than when I became Prime Minister. Of course we need to

:48:46. > :48:48.make sure there is a fair settlement for local government as well. We

:48:49. > :48:53.will be hearing more about that later today. But this ability of

:48:54. > :48:57.local councils to raise special council tax for social care will

:48:58. > :49:04.help in an area where there is great pressure. Nigel Adams.

:49:05. > :49:12.The Spitfire was a crucial element in us winning the Battle of Britain

:49:13. > :49:18.75 years ago. And keeping our country free from tyranny. However,

:49:19. > :49:24.there are some who fear that our independent, nuclear deterrent could

:49:25. > :49:29.be as obsolete as a Spitfire. Good my right honourable friend the Prime

:49:30. > :49:37.Minister assure the House and the country this is not the case? It

:49:38. > :49:43.takes quite a talent in the Shadow Defence Secretary to insult Spitfire

:49:44. > :49:49.pilots and sub Mariner 's all in one go. Another week, another ludicrous

:49:50. > :49:55.Labour position on defence. The last word should go to our right

:49:56. > :49:59.honourable member in Bridgend who tweeted, oh dear, oh dear, oh my

:50:00. > :50:02.God. Need to go to rest in a darkened room. I'm sure she will

:50:03. > :50:08.find the rest of her party will be there with her!

:50:09. > :50:26.At today's's select committee the Business Secretary confirmed the

:50:27. > :50:30.Government won't support the EU commission in raising tariffs on

:50:31. > :50:37.dumped steel from countries like China. Why won't the UK Government

:50:38. > :50:43.stand up for UK steel? We have repeatedly stood up for UK steel,

:50:44. > :50:47.including supporting taking anti-dumping measures in the EU. But

:50:48. > :50:50.that is not enough. We need to get behind public procurement for steel

:50:51. > :50:54.and that is what we are doing for them we need to get behind reducing

:50:55. > :50:57.energy bills for steel and that is what we're doing, we need to support

:50:58. > :51:01.communities like his own who have seem job losses, and that is exactly

:51:02. > :51:08.what we're doing. We recognise what a vital part Britain's industrial

:51:09. > :51:16.case British Steel is that is why we are backing it. Thank you Mr

:51:17. > :51:22.Speaker. Julian Assange is accused of rape and is on the run. Despite

:51:23. > :51:27.this, a United Nations panel nobody has ever heard of, declared last

:51:28. > :51:31.week that he has been arbitrarily detained and somehow deserving of

:51:32. > :51:36.compensation. Does my right honourable friend agree with me that

:51:37. > :51:42.this was a nonsensical decision? That Julian Assange sure turned

:51:43. > :51:45.himself over to the Swedish prosecutors and if anyone is

:51:46. > :51:55.deserving of compensation, it is the British taxpayer, who has had to pay

:51:56. > :51:59.?12 million to police his Ecuadorian hideout? My right honourable friend

:52:00. > :52:03.is absolutely right. I think this was a ridiculous decision for you

:52:04. > :52:07.have a man ear with an outstanding allegation of rape against him. He

:52:08. > :52:11.barricaded himself into the Ecuadorian Embassy but claims he was

:52:12. > :52:14.arbitrarily detained. The only person who detained himself was

:52:15. > :52:19.himself. What he should do is come out of that embassy and face the

:52:20. > :52:25.arrest warrant against him. He is being asked to stand trial in

:52:26. > :52:28.Sweden, a country with a fair reputation for justice. He should

:52:29. > :52:39.bring to an end this whole sorry saga. Mike Weir. Women's aid groups

:52:40. > :52:48.have raised concerns that changes in social housing benefits may close

:52:49. > :52:53.many refuges. Can the Prime Minister exempt refuges from this? I said in

:52:54. > :52:57.a to questions from the opposition, we want to support supported housing

:52:58. > :53:00.projects. There are work in many of our constituencies and we have seen

:53:01. > :53:04.how important they are. These changes we are talking about, about

:53:05. > :53:08.housing benefit, don't come into place until 2018. There is plenty of

:53:09. > :53:13.time to make sure that we support supported housing projects. Thank

:53:14. > :53:18.you, Mr Speaker. Next month Milton Keynes will host the first-ever

:53:19. > :53:23.National apprenticeship fair. We have a strong record in expanding

:53:24. > :53:27.apprenticeships. But is there not still a need for a cultural shift in

:53:28. > :53:32.careers advice, to show the high-level apprenticeships are

:53:33. > :53:35.equally valid to university places? I think my honourable friend is

:53:36. > :53:40.absolutely right. The careers advice we need to give young people is that

:53:41. > :53:43.there is a choice for every school either, we hope, of either a

:53:44. > :53:50.university place, because have uncapped unit per university places

:53:51. > :53:54.or apprenticeships and we to explain if you become an apprentice, that

:53:55. > :53:59.doesn't rule out doing a degree or a degree level qualification later on,

:54:00. > :54:01.during your apprenticeship. The option of earning and learning is

:54:02. > :54:07.stronger in Britain today than it has ever been before.

:54:08. > :54:16.Thank you Mr Speaker. Does the Prime Minister agree that housing protects

:54:17. > :54:18.human rights of people in the United Kingdom and deserves full and

:54:19. > :54:24.careful consideration question that will he give an assurance that his

:54:25. > :54:33.repeal of the Human Rights Act will not conflict with Scotland? We will

:54:34. > :54:36.very carefully all of these issues. I would say to the honourable lady

:54:37. > :54:40.and honourable members opposite, the idea that there were no human rights

:54:41. > :54:45.in Britain before the Human Rights Act is an absolutely ludicrous

:54:46. > :54:50.notion. This house has been a great Bastian and defender of human

:54:51. > :55:00.rights, but we will look very carefully of the timing of any

:55:01. > :55:05.announcements we make. Mr Speaker I spent most of my working life in

:55:06. > :55:09.children's hospices, rely on donations from organisations like

:55:10. > :55:14.children in need, you have a long association with the town of Pudsey.

:55:15. > :55:20.Would my right honourable friend join me and the people of Pudsey in

:55:21. > :55:24.paying tribute to Sir Terry Wogan, who did so much to inspire millions

:55:25. > :55:29.of pounds to be donated to these quarters question what I am very

:55:30. > :55:32.happy to do that. The honourable member representing his

:55:33. > :55:36.constituency, where Pudsey has such a connection is right to raise this.

:55:37. > :55:41.I think Terry Wogan was one of the great icons of this country. Like

:55:42. > :55:46.many people in this house you felt you grew up with him, listening to

:55:47. > :55:50.him in the radio, in the cart or watching him present programmes. At

:55:51. > :55:53.many people's favourite was the Eurovision Song contest, which every

:55:54. > :55:59.year he brought such great humour too. I think we were all fans and he

:56:00. > :56:07.will be hugely missed and his work with children in need was

:56:08. > :56:11.particularly special. On Monday I attended the work and pensions

:56:12. > :56:18.tribunal appeal hearing for my constituent, a brave and inspiring

:56:19. > :56:22.woman whose dwarfism. Despite being able to climb staircases except on

:56:23. > :56:28.all fours she was awarded zero disability points by her assessor

:56:29. > :56:33.can I asked the Prime Minister if he has if he has attended any tribunal

:56:34. > :56:40.hearings and if so if he found the process fair dignified and

:56:41. > :56:46.compassion question what I am happy to look into the Casey races. I have

:56:47. > :56:50.people coming to surgery with enquiries either about employment

:56:51. > :56:54.and support allowance or about disability living allowance. I have

:56:55. > :56:57.the experience having had a disabled son of filling out all the forms

:56:58. > :57:01.myself, and looking forward to the new system, which I think with the

:57:02. > :57:05.proper medical check, will work out better. I have listened to these

:57:06. > :57:13.arguments but we have to have a system of adjudication which is

:57:14. > :57:18.independent of politicians. Growing up nearby I always knew I was nearly

:57:19. > :57:25.home when I saw the iconic cooling towers of the power stations on the

:57:26. > :57:28.horizon. On Monday the owners of the remaining power station announced

:57:29. > :57:34.its likely closure this summer. Well my right honourable friend asked the

:57:35. > :57:38.Secretary of State to meet with me and discuss further the Government's

:57:39. > :57:42.support that can be provided to the 150 workers and the provisions that

:57:43. > :57:48.can be made to ensure the site is redeveloped as quickly as possible?

:57:49. > :57:52.I will certainly arrange for that meeting to take place. We should

:57:53. > :57:55.thank everyone who has worked at power stations that come to the end

:57:56. > :57:58.of their lives, for the work they have done to give us a lecture city,

:57:59. > :58:02.to keep our lights on and our economy moving. I think she is

:58:03. > :58:05.absolutely right. As coal powered power stations come to the end of

:58:06. > :58:09.their lives, we must make sure proper redevelopment takes place so

:58:10. > :58:15.we provide jobs for constituents like hers. The football supporters

:58:16. > :58:18.Federation is considering calling on fans to hold mass walk-outs, in

:58:19. > :58:22.order to get their voices heard about the issue of ticket prices.

:58:23. > :58:26.Will the Prime Minister act, to give fans a place at the table in club

:58:27. > :58:32.boardrooms, in order that their voices can be heard when issues such

:58:33. > :58:35.as ticket prices are being discussed? I will look very

:58:36. > :58:40.carefully at the suggestion the honourable gentleman makes. I think

:58:41. > :58:44.there is a problem here, where some teams and some clubs put up prices

:58:45. > :58:49.very rapidly every year, even though so much of the money for football

:58:50. > :58:55.comes through the sponsorship and equipment and other sources. I will

:58:56. > :58:59.look very carefully at what he says. The vital debate and votes on the

:59:00. > :59:03.Trident successes submarine should have been held in the last

:59:04. > :59:09.parliament but was blocked by the Liberal Democrats. Given the farm

:59:10. > :59:14.the Prime Minister had a few moments and go at the Labour Party 's

:59:15. > :59:18.expense over Trident's success, it must be tempting for him to put off

:59:19. > :59:22.the vote until the conference in October for, I urge him to do the

:59:23. > :59:26.statesman-like thing and hold that vote as soon as is of, because

:59:27. > :59:31.everyone is ready for it and everyone is expecting it. What we

:59:32. > :59:35.should do is have the vote when we need to have the vote, and that is

:59:36. > :59:38.exactly what we will do. No one should be in any doubt that this

:59:39. > :59:43.government is going to press ahead with all the decisions that are

:59:44. > :59:47.necessary to replace in full hour Trident is a Marines. I think the

:59:48. > :59:50.Labour Party should listen to Lord Hutton, who was their Defence

:59:51. > :59:55.Secretary for many years. He said, if Labour wants to retain any

:59:56. > :59:59.credibility on defence whatsoever it better recognise the abject futility

:00:00. > :00:02.of what its leadership is currently proposing. I hope when that vote

:00:03. > :00:08.comes we will have support from right across this House of Commons.

:00:09. > :00:12.In light of today's's damning National Audit Office report on

:00:13. > :00:16.teacher shortages, will the Prime Minister take urgent steps to help

:00:17. > :00:20.schools such as those in my constituency to recruit and retain

:00:21. > :00:26.the best teachers, including extending the London weighting to

:00:27. > :00:30.Harrow schools and other suburban schools question what we will look

:00:31. > :00:34.carefully at this report. There are 13,100 more teachers in my schools

:00:35. > :00:39.than when I became per minister. Our teachers are better qualified than

:00:40. > :00:42.ever before. People are shouting out about increased pupil numbers but

:00:43. > :00:50.they might be interested to know we have 40 7000 fewer tuple is in

:00:51. > :00:54.overcrowded schools because we put investment in where it was needed.

:00:55. > :00:58.But we do need schemes like teach first, like our national leadership

:00:59. > :01:04.programme, that are getting some of the best teachers into the schools

:01:05. > :01:08.where they are most needed. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister

:01:09. > :01:16.deserves great credit for the results of the Syria replenishment

:01:17. > :01:20.conference, which was held under his leadership in London. He will be

:01:21. > :01:29.aware this can only address the symptoms of the catastrophe and not

:01:30. > :01:35.the causes. What can he tell the House the government can do to make

:01:36. > :01:41.sure it reaches a speedy success question mark can I thank my right

:01:42. > :01:45.honourable friend. It gives me the opportunity to thank my co-hosts the

:01:46. > :01:48.Norwegians, the Germans and whether Kuwait is on the Secretary General

:01:49. > :01:52.of the United Nations. We raised in one day more money than has ever

:01:53. > :01:56.been raised that one of these conferences ever in their history,

:01:57. > :02:00.over $10 billion. I want to pay tribute to my right honourable

:02:01. > :02:08.friend, the secretary of state is a defeat he did a lot of work. It will

:02:09. > :02:11.help close and feed people and give them the medicine they need. We need

:02:12. > :02:15.a political solution and go on working with all our political

:02:16. > :02:19.partners to deliver this. It requires all countries, including

:02:20. > :02:23.Russia, to recognise the need for a moderate Sunni opposition to be at

:02:24. > :02:27.the table, to create a transitional authority in Syria. Without that, I

:02:28. > :02:35.feel we will end up with a situation where you have Assad in one corner

:02:36. > :02:43.and Daesh in the other. The worst outcome in terms of terrorism,

:02:44. > :02:46.refugees and the outcome of Syria. I am sure the Prime Minister is

:02:47. > :02:51.looking forward to visiting Hull next year. As the UK's city of

:02:52. > :02:56.culture we are backed by many prestigious organisations like the

:02:57. > :02:59.BBC and RAC, but we can do much better, to make this a real national

:03:00. > :03:03.celebration of culture. Will the Prime Minister join with me in

:03:04. > :03:07.urging the many London based National arts organisations to

:03:08. > :03:14.actually do their bit and contribute to the success? I think the

:03:15. > :03:18.honourable lady makes a very important point, which is our

:03:19. > :03:23.national cultural institutions have immense amount of works and prestige

:03:24. > :03:32.that they can bring out to regional Galleries and regional centres when

:03:33. > :03:35.there is a city -- culture event. I will enjoy visiting Hull Foster I

:03:36. > :03:41.know my right honourable friend will want to join me in the city of Hull.

:03:42. > :03:46.It is a city of poets, home to Philip Larkin for many years, and of

:03:47. > :03:55.course, Stevie Smith. Sometimes one might want to contemplate what it's

:03:56. > :03:57.like waving and not drowning. The election for the chair of the

:03:58. > :04:06.environmental audit committee is now taking place in committee room 16.

:04:07. > :04:10.Voting will continue until 1:30pm. Also voting on a deferred division

:04:11. > :05:36.is taking place in the no lobby. This will continue until 2pm.

:05:37. > :05:49.Order. I think we are going to come to points of order. Point of order,

:05:50. > :05:56.Mr James Gray. I seek your garden -- guidance on an issue which could

:05:57. > :06:05.undermine the traditions of this House. That is the matter of the

:06:06. > :06:08.chains -- change of use to pay for a recording of Acts of Parliament. In

:06:09. > :06:15.the 9th of August last year, you indicated to me that there would be

:06:16. > :06:18.a substantive vote in this House before the motion occurred. I asked

:06:19. > :06:20.for a point of order from the honourable lady for Washington and

:06:21. > :06:25.Sunderland on the night. You indicated you have changed your view

:06:26. > :06:30.on that matter and it would no longer be a substantive vote in this

:06:31. > :06:37.House and if she wished to register her opposition to it, a vote would

:06:38. > :06:44.be needed. Am I right that this would have no effect whatsoever.

:06:45. > :06:47.However, if I was to call a debate for the Backbench Business Committee

:06:48. > :06:52.with a substantive motion and request that this retrograde

:06:53. > :06:56.decision be reversed, can you advise what effect that would have on our

:06:57. > :07:00.decision in this place and whether the other place would have any

:07:01. > :07:04.reason to listen to that decision? Order, let me say the following to

:07:05. > :07:09.the honourable gentleman to say I am grateful for his point of order.

:07:10. > :07:12.First, I have not changed my view on the desirability of a vote in this

:07:13. > :07:16.chamber on the matter. The honourable gentleman was quite right

:07:17. > :07:22.in saying, as I readily acknowledged yesterday when a point of order was

:07:23. > :07:26.raised, that I had expected that a vote would take place on that

:07:27. > :07:35.matter, in this House. However, the matter does fall within the Aegis

:07:36. > :07:37.and it appears in terms of decision-making contents, the

:07:38. > :07:45.exclusive Aegis of the other place. For that reason, and on account of

:07:46. > :07:55.their desire to proceed, there is no entitlement for this House to

:07:56. > :07:57.supersede the other place's well. Secondly, the honourable gentleman

:07:58. > :08:03.quite correctly judges that it would be open to him and other members to

:08:04. > :08:09.seek a Backbench Business Committee debate on this matter, and I wish

:08:10. > :08:14.the honourable gentleman all success, presumably in a cross-party

:08:15. > :08:21.effort, to secure such a debate. It is not for me to seek to comment on

:08:22. > :08:28.how the other place judges matters. I would not have sought to do so

:08:29. > :08:31.anyway, and I have been reminded by sound professional advice, that it

:08:32. > :08:35.is not for me to do so. So I don't think I should get into the business

:08:36. > :08:39.of speculating about what might happen. But I have known the

:08:40. > :08:44.honourable gentleman forward over 20 years, and he is at his best a

:08:45. > :08:49.formidable and energetic campaigner. My advice to the honourable

:08:50. > :08:52.gentleman, if you feel strongly, together with his honourable friend

:08:53. > :08:56.from the Labour benches who raised the matter yesterday, to go ahead

:08:57. > :09:03.and seek a debate and to marshal his forces. And to plan for victory,

:09:04. > :09:12.rather than to spend time sitting around predicting it. Perhaps we can

:09:13. > :09:19.leave it there. I think it would be tactful to

:09:20. > :09:26.ignore the sedentary but no doubt purposeful interjection from the

:09:27. > :09:30.honourable gentleman for the constituency of Bolsover, but I

:09:31. > :09:36.heard what he said. Point of order, Tommy Sheppard.

:09:37. > :09:44.I wish to raise the issue of how we select questions in the post English

:09:45. > :09:50.laws for English constituencies. Today we have Scottish questions. 48

:09:51. > :09:54.non-Scottish members submitted a question, 12 were chosen, a success

:09:55. > :09:59.rate of 25%. I appreciate the randomness of the situation creates

:10:00. > :10:02.these considerations, but there is a matter of concern that Scottish

:10:03. > :10:05.members have only a one in four chance of questions to be Scottish

:10:06. > :10:10.secretary as compared to other member 's of the House. And in the

:10:11. > :10:14.review that we are about to undertake, of English votes for

:10:15. > :10:17.English laws, could I ask ever so gently whether you would consider

:10:18. > :10:21.whether it might be appropriate for those from the party which have a

:10:22. > :10:25.specific territorial response ability, whether some mechanism

:10:26. > :10:30.could be achieved to allow the members representing those areas are

:10:31. > :10:32.better chance of holding ministers to account?

:10:33. > :10:37.I'm very grateful to the honourable gentleman for his point of order.

:10:38. > :10:42.The short answer to the thrust of his question is selection is done by

:10:43. > :10:45.electronic ballot. It is done that way for questions to the Secretary

:10:46. > :10:50.of State for Scotland, and it is done that way in respect of every

:10:51. > :10:55.other Question Time edge to explain in this chamber. With reference to

:10:56. > :10:59.the honourable gentleman's request for consideration of an alternative

:11:00. > :11:04.method, I am happy to consider his point, but I had the honourable

:11:05. > :11:09.gentleman will bear in mind the likelihood that there will exist

:11:10. > :11:16.opinions on this matter, are the van and different from his own. We would

:11:17. > :11:20.leave it there for now. Point of order, Mr Tim Farron.

:11:21. > :11:25.Mr Speaker, I sit your help on matter. The Immigration Minister

:11:26. > :11:27.yesterday, in response to a written question had to correct an

:11:28. > :11:34.inaccurate answer previously given to a question as to how many young

:11:35. > :11:39.adults who had been previously refugees but were unaccompanied

:11:40. > :11:44.minors in this country, had been forcibly removed from this country.

:11:45. > :11:50.The original answer was 1600, the corrected answer was 3750. I wonder

:11:51. > :11:54.he would help make into opening up an investigation into how that might

:11:55. > :12:00.have happened, but also to press for information about what the cost to

:12:01. > :12:05.the UK Exchequer, from deporting from our country 3750 young people,

:12:06. > :12:12.who we had invested in for many years, and were just at the time of

:12:13. > :12:13.their life and about to contribute to our country?

:12:14. > :12:17.I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman for his point of order.

:12:18. > :12:22.The short answer to hear him is he can't seek a debate on the matter,

:12:23. > :12:25.he can table written parliamentary questions pursuant to the

:12:26. > :12:32.information he has already extracted, and he can raise the

:12:33. > :12:37.matter with all the authority of his leadership office on the floor of

:12:38. > :12:44.the House, at business questions tomorrow. I keenly expect to see the

:12:45. > :12:49.honourable gentleman, the right honourable gentleman, the member for

:12:50. > :12:55.Westmorland and Lonsdale in his place, and leaping to his feet with

:12:56. > :13:00.a laxity tomorrow morning. We will leave it there for now. -- with

:13:01. > :13:04.alacrity. If there are no further points of

:13:05. > :13:13.order, we come to the presentation of Bill in the name of secretary

:13:14. > :13:17.Teresa Villiers. A minister nods and he has done so.

:13:18. > :13:23.Northern Ireland agreement and implementation plan bill. Second

:13:24. > :13:34.reading what day? Tomorrow. Thank you. Presentation of Bill, secretary

:13:35. > :13:40.Teresa May. Policing and Crime Bill. Second reading what day?

:13:41. > :13:45.Tomorrow. Thank you. We come now to the ten minute rule motion, Mr Will

:13:46. > :13:49.Quince. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I beg leave

:13:50. > :13:55.to bring a bill which would prohibit the use of wild animals in circuses

:13:56. > :13:59.and for connected purposes. We had mention of Andy Murray's new baby,

:14:00. > :14:04.and I should mention in the last few days, we have had a new delivery

:14:05. > :14:08.ourselves, and it would be remiss of me not to apologise for taking a

:14:09. > :14:15.pause in our paternity arrangements to present this bill.

:14:16. > :14:19.Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to bring in this

:14:20. > :14:22.bill and I would like to pay tribute to those members, and in particular

:14:23. > :14:27.the member for Poplar and Limehouse, and the member for The Wrekin, who

:14:28. > :14:32.worked hard on this matter in this Parliament and pressed for

:14:33. > :14:35.prohibition on the use of wild animals in circuses. The

:14:36. > :14:40.Conservative manifesto on which I was proud to stand for the general

:14:41. > :14:44.election of 2015 states we will ban wild animals in circuses. It is a

:14:45. > :14:49.commitment mirrored on all sides of this House. The Labour Party

:14:50. > :14:54.manifesto committed to ban wild animals in circuses. The Democratic

:14:55. > :14:59.Unionist Party supports a ban on wild animals in circuses. The SNP's

:15:00. > :15:03.Westminster manifesto promised to consult on wild animals in

:15:04. > :15:05.travelling circuses, with many SNP MPs and MSP is now calling for a

:15:06. > :15:12.complete ban. It is one of those rare moments

:15:13. > :15:16.where we have a degree of consensus. In 2011, the House agreed a

:15:17. > :15:20.Backbench Business motion called on the then Government to ban all wild

:15:21. > :15:23.animals in circuses. Many members of this House consider this a piece of

:15:24. > :15:27.unfinished business from the last Parliament and I appreciate the

:15:28. > :15:32.chance to introduce the Bill today to press for this vital reform.

:15:33. > :15:37.Ahead of a ban being introduced, the Coalition Government did introduce

:15:38. > :15:39.as an interim welfare measure legislation to licence those

:15:40. > :15:48.circuses which used wild animals. I believe it is time for that ban to

:15:49. > :15:53.be introduced, to supercede those regulations. Last year, there were

:15:54. > :15:58.18 wild animals still being used by travelling circuses in England. It's

:15:59. > :16:02.a small number of animals, but it is a practice that I, the majority of

:16:03. > :16:06.MPs and the vast majority of the public in this country think should

:16:07. > :16:10.be brought to an end. So, Mr Speaker, why are wild animals in

:16:11. > :16:14.circuses now not appropriate? There is the practical element. In the

:16:15. > :16:18.past two centuries, wild animals were an essential part of the circus

:16:19. > :16:23.experience. The definition of a wild animal is a member of a species that

:16:24. > :16:27.is not normally domesticated in Great Britain. For many people,

:16:28. > :16:30.particularly those who could not afford foreign holidays, circuses

:16:31. > :16:34.were the only way and the only opportunity for those people to see

:16:35. > :16:38.wild and exotic animals. We know that that is now not the case. We

:16:39. > :16:43.are very fortunate in this country to have many world-class zoos.

:16:44. > :16:46.Colchester Zoo is one example where you can see elephants, tigers,

:16:47. > :16:51.penguins, lions, bears and chimpanzees. I should probably

:16:52. > :16:57.declare an interest that I'm a Gold Card member of the zoo and goi with

:16:58. > :17:01.my daughter on many occasions throughout the year. The zoo does

:17:02. > :17:04.fantastic work caring for those animals and providing them with

:17:05. > :17:08.different types of enrichment to occupy their time and promote

:17:09. > :17:11.natural behaviours. Crucially, the zoo aims to ensure that the

:17:12. > :17:17.conditions in which wild animals are kept are as close as possible to

:17:18. > :17:22.their natural habitats, educating people about the species' natural

:17:23. > :17:26.environment as well as enabling them to promote important issues such as

:17:27. > :17:29.conservation. Thanks to the huge growth in the opportunity of foreign

:17:30. > :17:33.travel, many more people can actually travel across the world to

:17:34. > :17:38.see these animals in their natural habitats. The extraordinary wildlife

:17:39. > :17:42.documentaries on television now mean we can see these wild animals in

:17:43. > :17:46.high-definition from our living rooms should we so wish. The second

:17:47. > :17:51.objection is to do with our basic respect for wild animals. Wild

:17:52. > :17:54.animals that have been kept and used in travelling circuses have the same

:17:55. > :18:00.counterparts in zoos or in the wild. counterparts in zoos or in the wild.

:18:01. > :18:06.Their instinctive behaviours remain. Using such animals to perform tricks

:18:07. > :18:12.and stunts hardly encourages people to respect the animals' value.

:18:13. > :18:16.Neither is there any educational, conservational or research benefit

:18:17. > :18:20.from using these animals solely or primarily for such entertainment and

:18:21. > :18:24.spectacle. I understand that the circus keepers in many cases do the

:18:25. > :18:29.best they can to care for the wild animals in question. And those

:18:30. > :18:34.circuses licensed under DEFRA's scheme have welfare standards to

:18:35. > :18:39.adhere to. The very nature of the circus business model means that

:18:40. > :18:43.attempting to recreate the natural habitat of a wild species or in aid

:18:44. > :18:49.of its conservation, it can never be achieved. Respected animal wealth

:18:50. > :18:52.and welfare groups such as the RSPCA and the British Veterinary

:18:53. > :18:55.Association have long supported and campaigned for a complete ban on the

:18:56. > :18:59.use of wild animals in circuses. Their views are based on the

:19:00. > :19:03.strongly-held belief that travelling circuses cannot meet the welfare

:19:04. > :19:08.needs of wild animals. I have some sympathy. The Radford Report in 2007

:19:09. > :19:12.concluded that there appeared to be little evidence to demonstrate that

:19:13. > :19:16.the welfare of animals kept in travelling circuses is any better or

:19:17. > :19:20.worse than those animals kept in similar captive environments. So it

:19:21. > :19:25.is clear there are very strong views on both sides. It is vital that we

:19:26. > :19:29.are evidence-based when we are seeking to introduce a ban and we

:19:30. > :19:33.recognise the grounds on which it would be sensible to introduce this

:19:34. > :19:38.prohibition. First and foremost, I want to get this ban through and

:19:39. > :19:42.carry the support of members on all sides. I'm aware there are some,

:19:43. > :19:45.including in this House, who argue these animals were born and bred in

:19:46. > :19:50.circuses and it would be cruel to drag them away from the keepers and

:19:51. > :19:57.the environments they know well. I understand that argument. I'm afraid

:19:58. > :20:02.I disagree. You cannot make the perfect the enemy of the good.

:20:03. > :20:05.Opposing a ban on this basis that wild animals already in circuses

:20:06. > :20:11.might be disrupted from their regular patterns of life would stop

:20:12. > :20:16.a ban being implemented and wouldn't be acceptable. Of course, it is

:20:17. > :20:21.vital there is provision to ensure that those wild animals in circuses

:20:22. > :20:26.in England are well cared for in their retirement and DEFRA's circus

:20:27. > :20:28.licensing scheme requires that all licenced animals must have

:20:29. > :20:32.retirement plans in place. It is also important we give those

:20:33. > :20:37.circuses affected appropriate time to prepare and adapt to any ban. But

:20:38. > :20:41.like so many across this House, I really believe that this reform,

:20:42. > :20:49.whose time has come, that this reform whose time has come, we

:20:50. > :20:52.should continue and follow countries like Austria, Belgium and the

:20:53. > :20:56.Netherlands in prohibiting wild animals in circuses. They were once

:20:57. > :20:59.an integral part of the circus experience. This is no longer the

:21:00. > :21:05.case. The use of wild animals in travelling circuses can no longer be

:21:06. > :21:09.justified. The majority of MPs want a ban, the public supports a ban, I

:21:10. > :21:11.urge colleagues to support this Bill.

:21:12. > :21:17.THE SPEAKER: The question is that the honourable member have leave to

:21:18. > :21:23.bring in the Bill. I hadn't intended to speak today,

:21:24. > :21:27.but having heard from what my honourable friend has said, I think

:21:28. > :21:33.it is important to put down on the record that if indeed his proposal

:21:34. > :21:38.is one which is supported by the Government, that any legislation

:21:39. > :21:43.should be brought forward by the Government rather than using the

:21:44. > :21:46.private members procedure and the reason I say that - and I think was

:21:47. > :21:55.conceded by my honourable friend in his speech - is that this is a

:21:56. > :22:00.controversial issue. My honourable friend conceded that it was a

:22:01. > :22:04.controversial issue and I think it is not surprising that, as a

:22:05. > :22:08.Conservative, I should regard it as controversial that we should be

:22:09. > :22:13.thinking about introducing a total prohibition on what is currently a

:22:14. > :22:17.perfectly lawful activity. So, if we are going to have legislation on

:22:18. > :22:22.this, let the Government bring forward its Bill and let's have a

:22:23. > :22:32.proper debate around the detail of that Bill. For example, my

:22:33. > :22:38.honourable friend, if he is going to listen to this response, what was

:22:39. > :22:41.said in his remarks was that he was talking about tricks being done by

:22:42. > :22:45.these wild animals in circuses. If one looks at the Bill that was

:22:46. > :22:53.introduced in the last Parliament, it actually seeks to impose a ban on

:22:54. > :22:58.the displaying of these wild animals. There's then an issue about

:22:59. > :23:05.what we define as a wild animal. For example, does my honourable friend

:23:06. > :23:12.think that a camel, which is in most countries of the world regarded as a

:23:13. > :23:22.domestic animal, that a camel should be banned from being able to

:23:23. > :23:24.participate in a circus? So, Mr Speaker...

:23:25. > :23:30.THE SPEAKER: In these circumstances we don't take interventions. That

:23:31. > :23:36.doesn't happen. And Mr Chope's remarks must be heard. Thank you, Mr

:23:37. > :23:45.Speaker. The other thing that my honourable friend didn't refer to

:23:46. > :23:49.was the outcome of the licensing regime, which has perfectly rightly

:23:50. > :23:55.been brought into effect. The consequence of that licensing

:23:56. > :23:59.regime, which requires up to seven inspections per year of animals in

:24:00. > :24:02.travelling circuses - and I think my honourable friend will correct me if

:24:03. > :24:06.I'm wrong, there is only one inspection per year for zoos such as

:24:07. > :24:12.Colchester Zoo. Seven inspections a year. We are now about to embark

:24:13. > :24:18.upon the fourth year of that licensing regime and nobody has

:24:19. > :24:23.criticised the welfare of the animals subject to that licensing

:24:24. > :24:30.regime. So, on the basis, Mr Speaker, that good Conservatives

:24:31. > :24:33.should argue for less regulation and prohibition, as little as is

:24:34. > :24:40.possible and reasonable, I think that we have reached a compromise

:24:41. > :24:43.here where we have got a proper tight welfare licensing regime

:24:44. > :24:49.without the need for a total ban or prohibition. That's why I say to my

:24:50. > :24:55.honourable friend that I think it would be wrong for him to raise the

:24:56. > :24:58.expectations of those people - and I accept that there are many people

:24:59. > :25:06.who support the views that he's expressed today - but it would be

:25:07. > :25:10.wrong for him to raise their expectations to suggest that this

:25:11. > :25:14.legislation could be put through under the Private Members' Bill

:25:15. > :25:19.procedure. And I hope that what he will say in response to comments

:25:20. > :25:24.about this is that the Government should bring forward legislation if

:25:25. > :25:26.indeed the Government has the will to implement this particular aspect

:25:27. > :25:38.of our manifesto. I think it would be out of order for

:25:39. > :25:41.me to talk about other aspects of the Conservative Party manifesto

:25:42. > :25:46.which have not yet been implemented and may not even be implement it at

:25:47. > :25:50.all. I think the onus for putting this matter right, if indeed it

:25:51. > :25:54.needs to be put right must be on the Government. This is going to be

:25:55. > :25:58.controversial technical legislation, and that is why I don't think it is

:25:59. > :26:06.appropriate for the private member procedure. Order. Question that the

:26:07. > :26:09.honourable member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as are of

:26:10. > :26:16.the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". I think the ayes

:26:17. > :26:26.have it. Who will prepare and bring in the Bill? Jim Dowd, Roger Gale,

:26:27. > :26:37.Mr Philip Hollobone, Brenda Sharma, Simon Hall, Luis Haig and myself,

:26:38. > :26:55.sir. -- Louise Haig. Mr Will Quince.

:26:56. > :27:01.Wild Animals in Circuses (Prohibition) bill. Second reading

:27:02. > :27:10.what day? Friday 4th of March. Thank you.

:27:11. > :27:18.Order, we come now to motion number two on the Police Grant Report

:27:19. > :27:24.England and Wales. I remind the House that this motion is subject to

:27:25. > :27:28.double majority voting. If a division is called on this motion,

:27:29. > :27:35.all members of the House are able to vote. Understanding order number 83

:27:36. > :27:44.are the motion will be agreed only if of those voting, both the

:27:45. > :27:48.majority of all members and the majority of members representing

:27:49. > :27:56.constituencies in England and Wales vote in support of the motion. At

:27:57. > :28:02.the end, the tellers will report the results, first for all members, and

:28:03. > :28:07.secondly for those representing constituencies in England and Wales.

:28:08. > :28:13.To move the motion, I call the minister. The Minister of State no

:28:14. > :28:18.less, Mr Mike Kenny. Thank you very much indeed, Mr

:28:19. > :28:21.Speaker. Can I beg for indulgence briefly, I noticed the new Serjeant

:28:22. > :28:27.at Arms is in place, I hope you still there now, no disrespect to

:28:28. > :28:33.the deputy. I know him well, he comes from a great regiment and we

:28:34. > :28:36.will miss him where he looks after our security and I'm sure he will do

:28:37. > :28:40.a fantastic job. Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the

:28:41. > :28:45.Police Grant Report for England and Wales for 2016 was laid before the

:28:46. > :28:49.House on the 4th of February, be approved. Mr Speaker, I was

:28:50. > :28:53.enormously proud when I was appointed the police minister. One

:28:54. > :28:58.of the things I did have very only on was a great deal of lobbying from

:28:59. > :29:03.colleagues around this House and from police constables and PC seas

:29:04. > :29:06.around the country, about the grant, whether it was fair, whether it

:29:07. > :29:12.should be changed and whether they felt they could survive if there

:29:13. > :29:19.were further cuts. However, we did inherit a really difficult economic

:29:20. > :29:21.situation and the Treasury quite rightly asked the Home Office

:29:22. > :29:23.whether or not our police forces could take further cuts. They have

:29:24. > :29:28.done particularly well under the last Parliament of taking really

:29:29. > :29:36.difficult financial decisions while we addressed the funding situation

:29:37. > :29:41.we inherited. What was really, really good was in most cases, and I

:29:42. > :29:47.say most cases, those discussions were sensible, they were pragmatic

:29:48. > :29:51.and actually, we can see from the fact that crime has fallen since

:29:52. > :29:56.2010, and continues to fall under this government, we can do more with

:29:57. > :30:00.less. I give way. I thank the Minister for giving way. If he

:30:01. > :30:06.decides with ministerial colleagues to extend the term of the

:30:07. > :30:10.Metropolitan Police Chief Constable, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, will he make

:30:11. > :30:14.it a condition that Sir Bernard is not allowed to merge Harrow police

:30:15. > :30:19.with any other borough command, because of that were to happen,

:30:20. > :30:26.inevitably, Harrow police would be diverted to police other parts of

:30:27. > :30:29.London? Mr Speaker, unlike the previous Labour administration, we

:30:30. > :30:33.believe in police officers making the decisions they need for their

:30:34. > :30:37.communities and not a top-down approach. We have devolved

:30:38. > :30:41.operational policing to make sure Chief constables can do that and

:30:42. > :30:45.also other decisions around how local community funding is done

:30:46. > :30:52.either through the Mayor's office, or through PCCs. I know the Labour

:30:53. > :31:00.Party opposed PCCs extensively. They have extensively -- thankfully

:31:01. > :31:04.changed their minds. I would not in anyway instructed the Commissioner

:31:05. > :31:09.for London in how he should police London, nor the Mayor, that is a

:31:10. > :31:13.matter for them. What I will say is that there will be more money in

:31:14. > :31:18.London for policing than if there was a Labour minister standing here

:31:19. > :31:21.because obviously, Labour wanted to cut 10% of their funding budget.

:31:22. > :31:27.Perhaps I will come onto that again, perhaps.

:31:28. > :31:31.I'm very grateful. As he knows, I have always opposed cuts to the

:31:32. > :31:35.police budget every single year, and the Minister has always had a good

:31:36. > :31:41.argument to come back to by saying crime is going down, therefore that

:31:42. > :31:47.justifies the Government's position. In my local paper, the Bradford

:31:48. > :31:52.Telegraph and Argus lastly, it said crime had gone up by 15% over the

:31:53. > :31:59.Bradford district in the last year. If falling crime is a justification

:32:00. > :32:01.for a fall in police grant, now we have significant rise in crime in

:32:02. > :32:05.the Bradford district, by the same logic, does that mean we will get a

:32:06. > :32:11.substantial increase in the police grant? My honourable friend is

:32:12. > :32:19.nothing but determined to push his case each time, but crime has

:32:20. > :32:22.fallen. We are having reported crime, predict Leon sexual assaults

:32:23. > :32:25.and a list of violence have been seen to go up and I am pleased that

:32:26. > :32:30.people have the confidence to come forward which they would not have

:32:31. > :32:36.done in the past. I think we need to look very carefully at where types

:32:37. > :32:40.of crime are increasing. I was the other day with the car manufacturers

:32:41. > :32:45.asking them to questions about how come we have seen an increase in car

:32:46. > :32:49.thefts, particularly in high-value vehicles when we had seen a decrease

:32:50. > :32:53.for some considerable time. But also seeing increases in crime which were

:32:54. > :32:58.never able to be on statistics before such as fraud, and under the

:32:59. > :33:03.previous administration fraud was not reported and will become part of

:33:04. > :33:09.the statistics. It is sadly part of our lifestyles and crime that we

:33:10. > :33:12.have today. Mr Speaker, what was really interesting after the

:33:13. > :33:17.Chancellor made the announcement at this dispatch box that we were not

:33:18. > :33:21.going to cut by 25%, not cut by 10% as the Shadow Home Secretary

:33:22. > :33:25.suggested, and not cut in a way which some forces said they could

:33:26. > :33:29.manage. What we said as we would not cut it at all. We would not cut

:33:30. > :33:33.between now and 2020 to give the confidence to the police that they

:33:34. > :33:37.needed to make sure that they had the funding. What is very

:33:38. > :33:40.interesting is the Police Commissioner for London and other

:33:41. > :33:43.chiefs did not suddenly say, OK them, we will not do any more

:33:44. > :33:47.reforms, we will not go ahead with some of the reforms because we have

:33:48. > :33:50.got the money that we needed, actually what the commissioner said

:33:51. > :33:54.that very night was we need to go ahead with many of the reforms that

:33:55. > :34:02.are making our police forces better as we go forwards, to detect and

:34:03. > :34:05.convicted criminals that we need. I am grateful to the Minister for

:34:06. > :34:10.giving way. He must accept there are 18,000 fewer police officers there

:34:11. > :34:14.when I stood at that dispatch box six years ago. He has to accept

:34:15. > :34:18.there are cuts in the real term grant and he should come to the

:34:19. > :34:22.House and explain honestly why local authorities and Police Commissioner

:34:23. > :34:27.such as mine in North Wales are simply precept to compensate for the

:34:28. > :34:33.cut in the central government grant. I will take a couple of points the

:34:34. > :34:38.Minister races with experience of being in the Home Office. Absolutely

:34:39. > :34:43.right when he said there were more police than there are today.

:34:44. > :34:47.Actually, there are more warranted officers on the streets of this

:34:48. > :34:51.country today doing the work we need them to do than when he was

:34:52. > :34:55.minister. I have still got concerns about some forces that had over 10%

:34:56. > :34:58.of their warranted officers who are not operationally out there on the

:34:59. > :35:02.streets doing the job we would expect them to do. Those are the

:35:03. > :35:05.sort of reforms we need them to continue to press forward on and

:35:06. > :35:13.make sure they have the skills they need and the equipment they need. I

:35:14. > :35:18.will not give way until later. On the particular point, if he wants to

:35:19. > :35:23.raise that point, then he should have been asking the question of his

:35:24. > :35:27.own front bench as to why they publicly said let's cut the police

:35:28. > :35:33.grant by another 10%, something we have not done.

:35:34. > :35:38.I think the honourable friend, I feel like I had been promoted ahead

:35:39. > :35:44.of the Shadow Home Secretary! On the point he made about the increase in

:35:45. > :35:47.police budgets, such as Lancashire where the directly funded police

:35:48. > :35:51.grant is actually going up, would he be as surprised as me, that the

:35:52. > :35:56.Lancashire Police and crime Constable and Chief constable were

:35:57. > :36:01.giving doomsday scenarios that Lancashire Constabulary is no longer

:36:02. > :36:08.fit for purpose and they have not come out and welcomed this budget?

:36:09. > :36:14.What has really shocked me, and I met a delegation from across the

:36:15. > :36:18.House from Lancashire, I meet every MD who wants to see me, not only has

:36:19. > :36:21.the Chief Constable not welcomed it but he has been whingeing that he

:36:22. > :36:27.will be short of money again this time. He needs to take a very close

:36:28. > :36:32.look at his reserves. He has been moaning about ?1 million, actually,

:36:33. > :36:36.if he looks at his reserves, it is minuscule compared to the reserves

:36:37. > :36:40.that Lancashire have. On one final point before I give way to the

:36:41. > :36:46.Shadow Home Secretary on precept, all governments look at precept.

:36:47. > :36:49.There are some PCCs who say they will not increase their precept.

:36:50. > :36:56.Others will go to the limit of 2%. Others will take the ?5 agreement we

:36:57. > :36:59.have. I was lobbied extensively to allow the precept to go much higher

:37:00. > :37:03.than 2%. I will give way. I'm grateful to the

:37:04. > :37:07.minister but let's get something straight here. When I came into the

:37:08. > :37:12.job as Shadow Home Secretary, he and his other colleagues in the

:37:13. > :37:17.Government were proposing to cut the police by between 25 and 40%. That

:37:18. > :37:22.was their proposal. And it was pressure from these benches, led by

:37:23. > :37:27.my honourable friend, a full opposition Day debate, that forced

:37:28. > :37:32.them into a humiliating U-turn. Let's get our facts straight here.

:37:33. > :37:37.Is the promise was it seems? He is standing there seemingly to suggest

:37:38. > :37:40.there will be no cuts. Can he guarantee there will be no real

:37:41. > :37:45.terms cuts to any police force going forward in the next few years? I am

:37:46. > :37:50.so pleased I gave way, I should have given way earlier, I should

:37:51. > :37:53.apologise. I find this absolutely fascinating. Any opposition would

:37:54. > :37:58.have looked at modelling about what a force could do or could not do.

:37:59. > :38:04.That is what this government did. We asked the forces if they could

:38:05. > :38:09.absorb 25 of 40%. And we ask that question. What we did not do, Mr

:38:10. > :38:14.Speaker, is to come out after that modelling had taken place, and say

:38:15. > :38:22.completely arbitrary, we will make it temper sent. You will be all

:38:23. > :38:27.right with 10% between now and 2020. Some forces will have really

:38:28. > :38:35.struggled to have done that. The point was made to be by the Shadow

:38:36. > :38:40.Home Secretary, you can sit there in a sedentary position and waffle

:38:41. > :38:45.away, but actually, 10% was waffle because there was no fact behind it.

:38:46. > :38:51.If they go to the preset limits they have, no real terms cash cuts to the

:38:52. > :38:58.forces. I give way. I am most grateful. He should be

:38:59. > :39:03.commended as the first police minister in a generation to tackle

:39:04. > :39:07.the issue of police funding by starting a review of the police

:39:08. > :39:13.funding formula. The House knows that of course that review ended

:39:14. > :39:17.with a long pause. I wrote to him on the 1st of February and I asked when

:39:18. > :39:20.the consultation process would begin, something the select

:39:21. > :39:25.committee is very keen should happen as soon as possible. Is he now in a

:39:26. > :39:29.position to tell the House when that process will begin? Mr Speaker, I

:39:30. > :39:33.thank the chairman of the select committee for his letter and his

:39:34. > :39:37.kind comments he often gives me at the dispatch box and when I come

:39:38. > :39:41.before the committee. I wrote to him yesterday, I'm sorry if he has not

:39:42. > :39:45.received the letter. I did not give a definitive date. I do not think he

:39:46. > :39:49.would expect me to give a definitive date. We are looking at how the

:39:50. > :40:01.settlement is laid and how to make sure I did have to stand at this

:40:02. > :40:04.dispatch box and eat so much humble pie as I did last time when we got

:40:05. > :40:06.it wrong. I admit we got it wrong and we will not make that mistake

:40:07. > :40:17.again. My own police force, we had around

:40:18. > :40:22.240 fewer officers on the beat since 2010. It's a fact. What I would like

:40:23. > :40:27.to ask - in the next two years ahead, my rough calculations from

:40:28. > :40:32.the data released suggest that there will be a real-terms cut of nearly

:40:33. > :40:40.?3.5 million from South Wales Police. Am I wrong? I do think the

:40:41. > :40:45.honourable gentleman is wrong. Not least because, not only have I met

:40:46. > :40:52.South Wales MPs in the last couple of days, but the very vocal PPC,

:40:53. > :40:57.which I know very well, has not raised those figures with me. At the

:40:58. > :41:03.end of the day, I would also ask South Wales Police to look very,

:41:04. > :41:07.very closely before they ask for anymore money at the size of their

:41:08. > :41:13.reserves, which are quite astronomical. Mr Speaker, what we

:41:14. > :41:16.need to do is also look at the achievements of what the police have

:41:17. > :41:20.been able to do and the collaboration that has taken place

:41:21. > :41:26.with extra funding from the department to see how we can better

:41:27. > :41:30.police out there on a day-to-day basis, not have the situation that

:41:31. > :41:35.we have had for so many years where money is spent in one building only

:41:36. > :41:44.has only been half used where it could be used in another building up

:41:45. > :41:48.the road. Hampshire MPs are proud of the emergency services in Hampshire.

:41:49. > :41:52.The innovation that has taken place in Hampshire is astounding. The

:41:53. > :41:57.money that has been saved so it could be used in other front-line

:41:58. > :42:02.work has been brilliant. Let me take Winchester, Mr Speaker. Winchester

:42:03. > :42:08.has a brand-new fire station, brand-new fire station. On the first

:42:09. > :42:11.floor are the fire offices, on the next floor it is the police. It's a

:42:12. > :42:16.police station as well as a fire station. Over half of the fire

:42:17. > :42:20.stations in England and Wales are within one kilometre of an ambulance

:42:21. > :42:23.station or a police station. The sort of innovation that's happening

:42:24. > :42:26.there, we are starting to see around the country and that is what we

:42:27. > :42:30.should continue with. The Minister is right to commend the hard work of

:42:31. > :42:35.the police under very difficult circumstances. He asks for

:42:36. > :42:41.comparisons. Can I tell him that in Greater Manchester violent crime is

:42:42. > :42:49.up by 36%, sexual offences up by 46%, overall crime is up by 14%. We

:42:50. > :42:53.have had 20% fewer police officers and 4% fewer PCSOs and in the next

:42:54. > :42:57.financial year, we are looking at an ?8.5 million cut in real-terms

:42:58. > :43:02.funding. Those things don't add up, do they? What I would say to the

:43:03. > :43:05.honourable gentleman is that since 2010, crime has fallen in

:43:06. > :43:09.Manchester, like it has fallen across the rest of this country.

:43:10. > :43:14.There are real concerns about certain elements of crime. That's

:43:15. > :43:19.exactly what his own Chief Constable will be addressing like we are doing

:43:20. > :43:22.at the Home Office. I would actually ask him to look very carefully at

:43:23. > :43:28.the figures that he quotes. We have to be careful we do not scare people

:43:29. > :43:31.away. We want people to report sexual assaults. Historically, they

:43:32. > :43:33.haven't done that. We want them to report domestic violence.

:43:34. > :43:38.Historically, they haven't done that. Those are the sorts of

:43:39. > :43:42.offences that we need - if you look carefully at the offences - I will

:43:43. > :43:48.give way. The Minister makes a point give way. The Minister makes a point

:43:49. > :43:56.about people having confidence to report crime. In London we have seen

:43:57. > :43:59.a 21% increase in sex offences, but worryingly, in Southwark, last year,

:44:00. > :44:05.16% of those reported crimes resulted in a conviction. When will

:44:06. > :44:08.he stop insulting the hard-working officers and constituents in

:44:09. > :44:11.Southwark and ensure we have the resources to tackle crime properly

:44:12. > :44:18.and keep people safe and secure the prosecutions? I have never insulted

:44:19. > :44:25.an officer of anybody's constituency in my entire life, and I never will.

:44:26. > :44:29.I resent the comments that the honourable gentleman has just made.

:44:30. > :44:33.However, what would have happened in London if you had had a 10% cut -

:44:34. > :44:38.the honourable gentleman said it wouldn't have happen. That is what

:44:39. > :44:45.was proposed by his shadow front bench. I give way. I thank the

:44:46. > :44:49.Minister for giving way. I agree with the point that he was trying to

:44:50. > :44:54.make about the emergency services working together better. In my town,

:44:55. > :44:57.we have seen the removal of an ambulance station and our paramedics

:44:58. > :45:05.work out of the local police station. It is this collaborative

:45:06. > :45:14.approach that can deliver real savings. Mr Speaker, the sort of

:45:15. > :45:17.collaborative work that my honourable friend has touched on, we

:45:18. > :45:24.are seeing across the country. Some of it is being paid for by the

:45:25. > :45:29.Innovation Fund. It goes much further than that. It goes much

:45:30. > :45:35.further than working in the same station, but training together. You

:45:36. > :45:41.may know I used to be a fireman, many years ago. I may have told - I

:45:42. > :45:47.may have to mention it a few more times again. There are only two of

:45:48. > :45:50.us in this House. It was very, very rare to train with other emergency

:45:51. > :45:56.services unless you were physically on the job. If you go around your

:45:57. > :46:00.constituencies and ask the last time that they did a full exercise with

:46:01. > :46:04.the fire, the ambulance or the coastguard, it is rare. That's often

:46:05. > :46:08.logistical pressures. It is not the logistical pressure if you are in

:46:09. > :46:11.the same building, in the same yard. So we go back to Winchester, not

:46:12. > :46:16.only is the fire station and the police station in the same building,

:46:17. > :46:21.the yard is jointly used but in the back of there, they have the Armed

:46:22. > :46:26.Response Unit, all built on what was going to be just a fire station.

:46:27. > :46:28.Then you start talking to those brilliant professionals that look

:46:29. > :46:33.after us every day and ask them about what sort of training they are

:46:34. > :46:39.doing now. I met firefighters in Hampshire that are being trained as

:46:40. > :46:42.paramedics. Sadly, when you get something like a road traffic

:46:43. > :46:51.collision, Mr Speaker, the ambulances may not always get there

:46:52. > :46:56.first. I know how difficult it really was when we were at incidents

:46:57. > :46:59.like that, and it is not all to do with how many ambulances you have.

:47:00. > :47:03.If you have a really bad smash on the motorway, it is difficult to get

:47:04. > :47:08.the emergency services there. You would think everybody would get out

:47:09. > :47:16.of the way. But they don't. What is clearly happening is that we have

:47:17. > :47:22.fire personnel trained to keep people alive, not just first aid

:47:23. > :47:29.certificates, defibrillators - and that is a really good innovation.

:47:30. > :47:34.When you are at a major trauma, to have those skills that I saw firemen

:47:35. > :47:37.and women have in Hampshire, it is something I was crying out for when

:47:38. > :47:41.I was in the Fire Service. I give way. I'm very grateful. I want to

:47:42. > :47:47.take him back to the answer he gave me some moments ago. Of course, it

:47:48. > :47:52.is not my intention to scare people, those are the statistics, they are

:47:53. > :47:56.going up in Greater Manchester. And, of course, it may be in part down to

:47:57. > :48:00.people now reporting crimes that previously they didn't. Doesn't the

:48:01. > :48:04.Minister also accept that people have to have confidence that there

:48:05. > :48:09.are adequate numbers of police officers to be able to investigate

:48:10. > :48:12.those crimes and surely the 20% reduction in the number of police

:48:13. > :48:18.officers in Greater Manchester is not going to help with that public

:48:19. > :48:22.confidence? That really does depend as to where those officers were in

:48:23. > :48:25.the first place. Were those officers working in the communities and on

:48:26. > :48:30.the beat? Or were they doing desk jobs? The truth of the matter is,

:48:31. > :48:33.while we have had a decrease in officers around the country, there

:48:34. > :48:38.are more in front-line duties now than there was in 2010. And the

:48:39. > :48:45.other thing that the honourable gentleman might want to ask his

:48:46. > :48:52.local PPC, if he is really worried about the funding, b even -- even

:48:53. > :48:58.though he would have had a 10% cut from his own front bench - I give

:48:59. > :49:05.way. I thank the Minister for giving way. Can I plead to him and ask him

:49:06. > :49:10.to look urgently at the issue of the rise in gun crime in the West

:49:11. > :49:14.Midlands? Can I ask him to look at resources to try and fill that gap?

:49:15. > :49:19.We have had over 20 shootings in the last six months, including six over

:49:20. > :49:24.the bank holiday period. We have had 41 arrests, great work has been done

:49:25. > :49:32.by the West Midlands Police force, and 24 recoveries of weapons and

:49:33. > :49:35.ammunitions. This can only be done if we have officers - and this is a

:49:36. > :49:39.real serious issue over the last 12 years. In order to have that

:49:40. > :49:45.additional support, can you please look at that? Mr Speaker, I saw on

:49:46. > :49:48.the news the shootings and I get the reports across my desk as well. Our

:49:49. > :49:54.thoughts must be with the families of those. Whatever the reason. What

:49:55. > :49:58.is fantastic and we must praise the work of the local police is the

:49:59. > :50:01.arrests that are being made. Let's hope we get the prosecutions going

:50:02. > :50:06.forward after that. That is the crucial thing. Confidence with the

:50:07. > :50:08.public comes from the police actually getting prosecutions and

:50:09. > :50:14.then the Criminal Justice System... I give way to the lady. I thank the

:50:15. > :50:19.Minister for giving way. Like my colleague on my side of the benches,

:50:20. > :50:23.there is a terrible unsolved shooting in Wood Green from last

:50:24. > :50:28.summer where a drive-by shooting mistaken identity, a baker who was

:50:29. > :50:33.coming out for a break from his bakery, he was shot and the person

:50:34. > :50:36.has driven off, still unsolved. Can the Minister rule out that that has

:50:37. > :50:41.not got to do with the cut in police numbers? Mr Speaker, why anybody

:50:42. > :50:45.would get in a car and drive down and open a window and shoot someone

:50:46. > :50:50.is beyond me. And probably beyond the comprehension of anybody within

:50:51. > :50:53.this House. What we do know and what we do know is that the police forces

:50:54. > :50:58.around the country are doing a fantastic job. We have just heard of

:50:59. > :51:04.the arrests that have been taking place. To define - and to say that

:51:05. > :51:14.is because you cut the money, that is because you - that is a silly

:51:15. > :51:17.comment. I give way. People are suffering as a result of that.

:51:18. > :51:21.THE SPEAKER: Order. We need to be clear whose intervention is being

:51:22. > :51:26.taken. The honourable lady will have to express herself on another

:51:27. > :51:31.occasion. I'm grateful to the Minister for giving way. I have

:51:32. > :51:37.another tale of woe. There have been approximately 12 burglaries in ten

:51:38. > :51:41.days in the Saddleworth villages and I have some very worried

:51:42. > :51:46.constituents, so I totally agree with my honourable friend, you

:51:47. > :51:52.cannot possibly say that there isn't a link between the front-line cuts

:51:53. > :51:56.to staff at Greater Manchester Police, also mentioned by the member

:51:57. > :52:03.for Denton, so what will he say and what can he say to those

:52:04. > :52:08.constituents that many constituents that I have that have contacted me

:52:09. > :52:12.about their safety? That priority that the honourable lady refers to

:52:13. > :52:18.is why the Chancellor stood at this dispatch box and said we will make

:52:19. > :52:22.sure that we give the money, no-one dreamed we would get it, so the

:52:23. > :52:25.money would come through. There are no cuts going forward even though

:52:26. > :52:29.that is exactly what you would have had should you have had a Labour

:52:30. > :52:35.Minister standing here. I give way. I thank the Minister who is making a

:52:36. > :52:46.very strong case. Isn't it important that we trust the professionals in

:52:47. > :52:50.the police service? He will know that the terrible murders around

:52:51. > :52:53.Peterborough could not have been solved by Cambridgeshire

:52:54. > :52:57.constabulary alone. They had to work with other constabularies in order

:52:58. > :53:01.to have the critical mass, forensics and back-up work to solve those

:53:02. > :53:05.murders because we trust our local professional police officers. My

:53:06. > :53:10.honourable friend has touched on the point I was going to come on to,

:53:11. > :53:14.which is this collaboration point. Forces, the 43 forces around the

:53:15. > :53:20.country, not even London, with the size of London, can police alone.

:53:21. > :53:26.They need help across-the-board. In East Midlands, they are doing

:53:27. > :53:30.fantastic work and in my own region, the sorts of capabilities which

:53:31. > :53:33.would have always been done quite difficultly in a difficult way in

:53:34. > :53:37.local forces are now being spread across the situation. Mr Speaker, I

:53:38. > :53:43.have been called many things since I have been in this House, and before

:53:44. > :53:47.I came in this House, but "frit" is not one of them. I give way. He is

:53:48. > :53:51.saying a few things that are worrying me this afternoon. He just

:53:52. > :53:55.stood there a few moments ago and said, "No real-terms cuts to the

:53:56. > :53:59.police." That is simply untrue. I hope he will correct the record

:54:00. > :54:03.before this debate ends. That is simply untrue. The other thing he

:54:04. > :54:06.just said was that there are more officers in front-line positions.

:54:07. > :54:11.There was a workforce survey out last week that showed that his

:54:12. > :54:15.Government cut police officers by 18,000 in the last Parliament. Is he

:54:16. > :54:19.seriously standing there today and saying, despite that cut of 18,000,

:54:20. > :54:23.there are more police officers on our streets? Mr Speaker, I know the

:54:24. > :54:28.Labour Party are desperately trying to find a reason to vote against a

:54:29. > :54:32.very generous funding settlement, even though they would like to have

:54:33. > :54:36.made it a difficult settlement by cutting it by 10%. What I said,

:54:37. > :54:39.there are more operational police officers that are on duty now in the

:54:40. > :54:43.front-line than there was in the past. That is what I have said at

:54:44. > :54:47.this dispatch box time and time again. What we need to make sure, Mr

:54:48. > :54:50.Speaker, and ask the question - perhaps we will hear it from the

:54:51. > :54:53.Shadow Minister when we hear the arguments as to why there should

:54:54. > :55:00.have been greater cuts or cut - because we are not going to cut at

:55:01. > :55:02.all - cuts - what front-line services would have lost? I give

:55:03. > :55:14.way. There has been a lot of talk about

:55:15. > :55:19.cuts and also the horrific issue of crime, linked to that is the issue

:55:20. > :55:23.of counterterrorism and national security. Can the Minister confirm

:55:24. > :55:29.that this government will be increasing spending on tackling

:55:30. > :55:34.counterterrorism, so it shows our commitment to national security?

:55:35. > :55:40.I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. There is a

:55:41. > :55:43.separate way we fund CT and I think that is enormously important. We

:55:44. > :55:51.have a Minister of State 's Pacific Quay for that task. I think it is

:55:52. > :55:53.really interesting and even though I have heard from the opposition

:55:54. > :55:59.benches that this is terrible and this will happen, from the 43

:56:00. > :56:04.authorities they welcome the Chancellor's budget -- we have a

:56:05. > :56:10.specific Minister of State for that task.

:56:11. > :56:14.This is what it is about, a very generous settlement which we would

:56:15. > :56:19.not have had if we had not won the arguments with the Chancellor.

:56:20. > :56:24.I give way. I thank the Minister for giving way and I am slightly baffled

:56:25. > :56:31.by his comments. Northumbria Police expect to have lost around ?150

:56:32. > :56:37.million between 2010 and 2020 and its workforce has already been cut

:56:38. > :56:41.by a court, which is split equally between police officers and police

:56:42. > :56:48.staff. Could the Minister just clarify, in what way is that a

:56:49. > :56:54.generous settlement? Mr Speaker, to go over the arguments, we inherited

:56:55. > :56:59.a fiscal mess left by the previous Administration. We had to make

:57:00. > :57:03.really difficult financial decisions. The police forces did

:57:04. > :57:15.Bolelli well and were worried that would go on -- they did very well.

:57:16. > :57:28.Their front bench was going to do 10% cuts for policing. He giving

:57:29. > :57:33.way. To Mr Hammond? Thank you. I have been listening

:57:34. > :57:37.carefully to the police minister. I met with my local borough command

:57:38. > :57:42.last week. He said some challenges would make policing more effective.

:57:43. > :57:48.More botany he did stress that the number of police on the front line

:57:49. > :57:52.in the Met is as many as it has ever been -- more importantly. My

:57:53. > :57:56.honourable friend has actually brought me onto an interesting

:57:57. > :58:05.point. Last Friday, the Friday before last, I was at Hendon with

:58:06. > :58:10.the commissioner, taking the salute of the 135 new recruits coming

:58:11. > :58:13.through. Brand-new police officers wanting to join the Met coming

:58:14. > :58:22.through their training and on passing out parade. I think 60% live

:58:23. > :58:25.in London. This is because of the reforms the Commissioner has brought

:58:26. > :58:28.in saying you need to have lived in London for five years unless you

:58:29. > :58:33.have served in the Armed Forces. That figure will be boosted again. I

:58:34. > :58:38.was speaking to the officer in charge and he is expecting in excess

:58:39. > :58:44.of 2000 officers training at Hendon. We should be really proud of the

:58:45. > :58:48.numbers and I give way. The Minister has been very generous.

:58:49. > :58:51.We all know that one of the perennial problems of policing has

:58:52. > :58:55.been the amount of time that police officers have not been able to spend

:58:56. > :59:00.on the beat. Does the Minister agree that when good Police and Crime

:59:01. > :59:03.Commissioners use innovative technology to help those police

:59:04. > :59:07.officers spend more time on the beat, in places such as

:59:08. > :59:13.Staffordshire, it can mean as many as 100 extra police officers on the

:59:14. > :59:17.beat at a 10th of the cost? Mr Speaker, there is a myriad of

:59:18. > :59:20.different ways that we can give the confidence we need to our

:59:21. > :59:24.constituents with our uniformed officers out there and others from

:59:25. > :59:29.the community who are doing it as well. Can I pay tribute to our

:59:30. > :59:34.specials? They do not get mentioned as much as they should do. Our

:59:35. > :59:39.specials do a fantastic, fantastic job. We have to look carefully at

:59:40. > :59:42.certain parts of the country where the specials numbers have literally

:59:43. > :59:47.rocketed into their thousands whereas in other parts of the

:59:48. > :59:50.country we do not have as many as we would like. I will give way once

:59:51. > :59:55.more and then I will come to my final point.

:59:56. > :00:00.I am grateful. Would my honourable friend join me in congratulating the

:00:01. > :00:07.Conservative candidate in the Lincolnshire Police and crime

:00:08. > :00:08.Commissioner elections for introducing special constables,

:00:09. > :00:15.parish constables, who will look after the very remote rural areas of

:00:16. > :00:19.Lincolnshire, giving those communities a policing figure they

:00:20. > :00:26.know they can go to for help and advice, of somebody really to help

:00:27. > :00:31.rural communities? Mr Deputy Speaker, I spent quite a bit of time

:00:32. > :00:38.in Lincolnshire over the years, and was lobbied very extensively by the

:00:39. > :00:45.Chief Constable and the Commissioner for a change in the funding formula,

:00:46. > :00:47.to be fair. What I would say is the sort of innovation that we have seen

:00:48. > :00:51.in places like Lincolnshire with the in places like Lincolnshire with the

:00:52. > :00:54.parish specials and with rural mountain specials is the kind of

:00:55. > :01:00.thing we would like to see replicated.

:01:01. > :01:03.I will give way. In Lincolnshire, we are very grateful because this

:01:04. > :01:07.Minister has done more than any other minister to come up, spent

:01:08. > :01:11.days with the police force, and we very much appreciate what he has

:01:12. > :01:16.done with his grant. We have had a letter from the Chief Constable

:01:17. > :01:20.saying historic problems, increases in police salaries, national

:01:21. > :01:24.insurance contributions, he still has a significant funding deficit.

:01:25. > :01:30.Can the Minister say more about how he can help us, please? I know

:01:31. > :01:34.exactly what my honourable friend is saying, and I know exactly what is

:01:35. > :01:37.in the letter because I have had a very similar one. All I can say is

:01:38. > :01:40.what Lincolnshire were asking me to do, which a lot of constabularies

:01:41. > :01:44.and people in this House have asked is for a change in the funding

:01:45. > :01:48.formula to make it fairer for Lincolnshire. That is something we

:01:49. > :01:51.will continue to look at. This settlement is a not, not better than

:01:52. > :02:01.they thought they were going to get and a lot better than if there had

:02:02. > :02:03.been a Labour minister at the dispatch box.

:02:04. > :02:05.If I may, in relation to collaboration, with the Minister

:02:06. > :02:07.paid tribute to the work between Essex and Kent Police which looks at

:02:08. > :02:10.the intelligence sharing to ensure that the serious crime and organised

:02:11. > :02:13.crime in Newport County is also crime in Newport County is also

:02:14. > :02:21.dealt with swiftly and effectively? -- in the Port County. That type of

:02:22. > :02:30.work is so, so important. For too many years forces have sat in silos,

:02:31. > :02:34.individual emergency services have sat in silence. One reason they have

:02:35. > :02:37.come together is because of the austerity measures we had to bring

:02:38. > :02:45.in which has made them think out of the box. I thank the Minister. Can I

:02:46. > :02:49.just talk about the specific, first of all can I pay tribute to

:02:50. > :02:52.Cambridgeshire Constabulary for the excellent work they have done on

:02:53. > :02:58.issues around domestic violence and sexual offences. Isn't it the case,

:02:59. > :03:04.one of the reasons there has been a slight spike in those issues in

:03:05. > :03:07.crime reporting, is because many more victims feel comfortable about

:03:08. > :03:13.approaching the police now and feel they will be treated fairly in the

:03:14. > :03:16.pursuit of their complaints? Mr Speaker, my honourable friend has

:03:17. > :03:20.touched on a really important point. I had the honour the other week of

:03:21. > :03:23.continuing the funding for the victims groups around the country

:03:24. > :03:29.for the next three years. One of the things I think is really important

:03:30. > :03:31.is our constituents, no matter what has happened to them, have the

:03:32. > :03:34.confidence to come forward and they confidence to come forward and they

:03:35. > :03:38.will be listened to and there will be compassion when they come

:03:39. > :03:41.forward. For too many years, that was not the case. I know a lot of

:03:42. > :03:47.colleagues want to get in and I have been fairly generous, I would argue

:03:48. > :03:48.this afternoon, we need to make sure that our constituents are made aware

:03:49. > :03:56.of how generous this settlement is, of how generous this settlement is,

:03:57. > :03:59.for the next four years to 2020. It is still very difficult Financial

:04:00. > :04:06.Times, still times where we are continuing to pay for the amount of

:04:07. > :04:08.administration and finance of this country by the previous

:04:09. > :04:11.Administration and previous ministers who are now sitting on the

:04:12. > :04:15.Labour front bench. I am looking forward to listening to positive

:04:16. > :04:20.comments from our police force. I am enormously proud to be the police,

:04:21. > :04:28.fire, victims and criminal justice minister. It is a long title, a big

:04:29. > :04:31.job and I am delighted to have it. The question is as on the order

:04:32. > :04:35.paper. Jack Dromey. Mr Speaker, I bow to no one in my

:04:36. > :04:39.admiration for the police service. In the immortal words of Robert

:04:40. > :04:44.Peel, the police are the people and the people are the police. There has

:04:45. > :04:50.been a constant in our country for two centuries. The model for

:04:51. > :04:53.policing by consent that we built on when we were in government. When

:04:54. > :05:00.Labour left office, there were a record number of police on the

:05:01. > :05:06.streets, over 16,500 more than in 1997, and in addition, nearly 70,000

:05:07. > :05:12.PCSOs. We built neighbourhood policing, popular with the public.

:05:13. > :05:18.It worked, we saw a generation of progress on crime, local policing,

:05:19. > :05:21.local roots, local say, local partnership working. We built that

:05:22. > :05:26.which the public valued and it was one of Labour's greatest

:05:27. > :05:30.achievements. I give way. I thank the honourable gentleman. On the

:05:31. > :05:34.issue of bowing to know one, would he support the settlement today,

:05:35. > :05:38.rather than bowing to the Shadow Home Secretary's suggestion of a 10%

:05:39. > :05:43.cut? We will oppose this settlement today and I will tell you why. It is

:05:44. > :05:47.simply not true what has been said from this dispatch box, both by the

:05:48. > :05:51.Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Police Minister, that police funding

:05:52. > :05:58.is being protected and I will come to set that out in greater detail in

:05:59. > :06:03.due course. Mr Speaker, of course we are still learning sometimes painful

:06:04. > :06:07.lessons from the past. There are still wrong is to be righted. The

:06:08. > :06:11.police are not perfect. We need to raise standards and we should always

:06:12. > :06:15.hold the police to the highest standard in the public interest. The

:06:16. > :06:20.first thing I want to say to the police minister and the Home

:06:21. > :06:25.Secretary is the British model of policing, based on neighbourhood

:06:26. > :06:30.policing is celebrated worldwide. It was a model responsible for a

:06:31. > :06:35.generation of progress on crime. The Home Secretary's remorselessly

:06:36. > :06:41.negative tone about the police, taken together with ever fewer

:06:42. > :06:46.police officers doing evermore, has seen a tomorrow live police service

:06:47. > :06:50.with sickness and stress soaring. I give way. I am very grateful to my

:06:51. > :06:54.honourable friend and he is absolutely right to go back to

:06:55. > :07:00.Labour's success of neighbourhood policing. Is he as dismayed as I am,

:07:01. > :07:03.that what is happening in my own constituency, is that neighbourhood

:07:04. > :07:09.policing is being withered away and those offices are being put onto

:07:10. > :07:13.response, which is very necessary, but so is neighbourhood policing.

:07:14. > :07:19.That in itself is undermining public confidence in the ability of the

:07:20. > :07:22.police, to listen to the needs of communities. The honourable member

:07:23. > :07:25.was absolutely right. Typically, what you see over the country is a

:07:26. > :07:29.neighbourhood Sergeant responsible neighbourhood Sergeant responsible

:07:30. > :07:35.for making one or two or three teams with PCSO 's, and those who were

:07:36. > :07:37.previously police officers, of neighbourhood policing onto

:07:38. > :07:42.response. On the issue raised earlier on about more on the front

:07:43. > :07:47.line, that was posed a decision by the Home Office in 2012, that was a

:07:48. > :07:54.reclassification of some people on reclassification of some people on

:07:55. > :07:57.response to have local neighbourhood policing duties, even if it was the

:07:58. > :08:02.case that they spent all of their time on response. What was asserted

:08:03. > :08:07.here earlier on that there was more on the front line is simply not

:08:08. > :08:10.right. I will give way. I wonder if my honourable friend could comment

:08:11. > :08:15.on the fact that Humberside police is not the only police force to be

:08:16. > :08:20.judged inadequate, but we are at the lowest level of police officers

:08:21. > :08:24.since the 1970s. I wonder if the Shadow Minister could reflect on how

:08:25. > :08:28.that is for neighbourhood policing, what that actually means? The

:08:29. > :08:32.honourable lady absolutely right. If you look at some of the surveys

:08:33. > :08:37.what the public complained of is what the public complained of is

:08:38. > :08:41.lack of visibility of local police officers. Neighbourhood policing is

:08:42. > :08:46.absolutely key. It is not just about detecting criminals, it is about

:08:47. > :08:52.preventing crime, divert in people from crime, building good community

:08:53. > :08:55.relationships that bring people in, including to cooperate in

:08:56. > :08:59.identifying who criminals are and if you lose the benefits of

:09:00. > :09:03.neighbourhood policing at its most serious in relation to terrorist

:09:04. > :09:08.crime, it was the former head of counterterrorism who said

:09:09. > :09:14.neighbourhood policing is the golden thread that leads to the global.

:09:15. > :09:18.Patient policing with communities where they cooperate by identifying

:09:19. > :09:25.wrongdoing, and in this particular case, wrong doing of the worst

:09:26. > :09:29.possible kind. I will give way. Will my honourable friend also confirmed

:09:30. > :09:32.that this is not just about crime. When we have floods in our

:09:33. > :09:36.communities, the police are the first point of call. When we have

:09:37. > :09:40.public order parades, deeply is the first port of call. When we have

:09:41. > :09:48.football matches, the police are the first port of call. Policing is not

:09:49. > :09:52.just about crime. The honourable member is absolutely right. It is

:09:53. > :09:57.about the wider duties of the police service. The College of Policing has

:09:58. > :10:00.done some good work. By the way, the National Audit Office has called on

:10:01. > :10:04.Home Secretary to understand better what the police actually do, because

:10:05. > :10:08.it is not just about that element focused on crime, it is about the

:10:09. > :10:12.wider responsibilities. On the issues of the floods, it was the

:10:13. > :10:16.police together with the fire, ambulance and other services, the

:10:17. > :10:20.Environment Agency, who were guarding premises against being

:10:21. > :10:25.looted, for example in some parts of the country. I can use an example

:10:26. > :10:29.from last Saturday. I was deeply impressed to see the West Midlands

:10:30. > :10:36.Police service, together with other police services all coming together

:10:37. > :10:42.to police the pernicious attempt to march through Birmingham, keeping

:10:43. > :10:47.apart counted demonstrations and those who were there to support

:10:48. > :10:52.Pegeida, doing a tremendous job and doing it with the community. The

:10:53. > :10:56.honourable gentleman is absolutely right from his experience.

:10:57. > :11:01.He may have heard me ask the Minister to comment on the issue of

:11:02. > :11:06.burglaries in Saddleworth. There has been almost a 50% increase in

:11:07. > :11:10.burglaries and I wondered if he wanted, if my honourable friend

:11:11. > :11:15.wanted to comment on what the Minister said? There has been a

:11:16. > :11:20.reduction of 2,000 front-line posts - I have had this confirmed from

:11:21. > :11:26.Greater Manchester Police. The honourable lady makes a very

:11:27. > :11:30.powerful point because if you look at the statistics overall, areas of

:11:31. > :11:33.volume crime have gone down. I will come on in a moment to say it is not

:11:34. > :11:37.true what the Government says that crime is falling. Areas of volume of

:11:38. > :11:40.crime have gone down. Cars and houses by and large are more

:11:41. > :11:45.difficult now to break into. Having said that, there are spates of

:11:46. > :11:48.burglaries all over the country. And what is again key is good

:11:49. > :11:56.neighbourhood policing. Can I give an example from my own constituency?

:11:57. > :12:00.The admirable Sergeant Simon Hensely, he set up a canoeing club.

:12:01. > :12:04.There were hundreds of young people - I launched it in a canoe - it was

:12:05. > :12:07.one of the most terrifying moments since I became a Member of

:12:08. > :12:12.Parliament - hundreds of young people joined that club. Very good

:12:13. > :12:18.relationships were formed with them. And one benefit of that is that when

:12:19. > :12:22.it came to being an outbreak of burglaries, they came forward and

:12:23. > :12:25.said, "We think we know who the bad lads are." It is that neighbourhood

:12:26. > :12:28.policing, no substitute for neighbourhood policing, it's the

:12:29. > :12:38.bedrock of policing in our country. I give way. The honourable gentleman

:12:39. > :12:43.is making a fair point. It would be churlish not to accept there has

:12:44. > :12:48.been progress. Would he agree one of the legacies of the previous Labour

:12:49. > :12:52.Government was an inordinate amount of bureaucracy and paperwork which

:12:53. > :12:56.kept many front-line officers in the station processing data rather than

:12:57. > :13:02.out catching criminals? That is something that this Government has

:13:03. > :13:09.tackled which is why we have seen a reduction in recorded crime? We did

:13:10. > :13:13.prescribe too much too often. It is right by consensus across political

:13:14. > :13:17.parties that the last Government seems to be less prescriptive. There

:13:18. > :13:20.are certain things you will always prescribe. I don't disagree with the

:13:21. > :13:24.point being made by the honourable member. I thank my honourable friend

:13:25. > :13:27.for giving way. In relation to the neighbourhood police point that he

:13:28. > :13:32.was making earlier, does he agree with me that in relation to the very

:13:33. > :13:37.serious act of gun crime, neighbourhood policing is crucial in

:13:38. > :13:42.piecing together all the small bits of information which may bring a

:13:43. > :13:53.conviction forward? Would he assist me in some way to bring forward the

:13:54. > :13:59.tragic shooting that I mentioned earlier in Wood Green where this man

:14:00. > :14:04.was shot in a drive-by shooting and we would like to have that crime

:14:05. > :14:07.solved. It is difficult to comment on the detailed circumstances other

:14:08. > :14:12.than to say what you need is capacity to catch those guilty of

:14:13. > :14:17.murder. One of the most heinous crimes - forgive me if I say what I

:14:18. > :14:21.said in answer to a question just now - key to that is good

:14:22. > :14:25.neighbourhood policing. The evidence is that that's vital in terms of

:14:26. > :14:28.information and intelligence gathering and if you run down

:14:29. > :14:31.neighbourhood policing, the inevitable consequence is that you

:14:32. > :14:38.make it more difficult to detect criminals of that kind. I give way.

:14:39. > :14:43.I'm grateful. Neighbourhood policing is key. Will he agree with the

:14:44. > :14:51.commander who I met last Friday, who made the point that although the

:14:52. > :14:56.numbers of some of the neighbourhood units are down, they are more

:14:57. > :14:59.effective? On that point, it depends where you are talking about. For

:15:00. > :15:04.example in the West Midlands Police service, they sought to detain

:15:05. > :15:08.dedicated numbers in high-risk, high-demand areas. Taken as a whole,

:15:09. > :15:11.the numbers have been going down. So, there will be variances at any

:15:12. > :15:16.one point in time. The evidence is clear. There has been a remorseless

:15:17. > :15:20.reduction of the number of police officers and a hollowing out of

:15:21. > :15:24.neighbourhood policing. Now, I have given way about nine times. Can I

:15:25. > :15:29.make a bit more progress and then I will gladly give way to the

:15:30. > :15:35.honourable gentleman? Now, returning to where I was, what I want

:15:36. > :15:40.therefore to do today is to start by celebrating as the police bravery

:15:41. > :15:44.awards showed that we are policed by ordinary men and women doing

:15:45. > :15:50.extraordinary things often in the most difficult of circumstances. Mr

:15:51. > :15:55.Deputy Speaker, they deserve better than what happened inthe run-up to

:15:56. > :16:03.the Comprehensive Spending Review. Yesterday, I was privileged to speak

:16:04. > :16:05.at the 20th anniversary, together with Conservative Ministers, 20th

:16:06. > :16:14.anniversary of the Docklands bomb. I was talking to police officers after

:16:15. > :16:18.that. Brave men and women, outstanding dutied and the sense of

:16:19. > :16:23.obligation to their community. They talked to me about the mounting

:16:24. > :16:26.pressures that had been on them, the challenges of counter-terrorism, the

:16:27. > :16:31.impact of the last five years, and to be frank, they were absolutely

:16:32. > :16:33.dismayed that their Government had contemplated cutting the police

:16:34. > :16:43.service in half. As I will come to say in a moment, that is precisely

:16:44. > :16:55.what had been contemplated. In my constituency, I saw Police police

:16:56. > :17:01.comunt Police police -- Police Community Support Officers in tears.

:17:02. > :17:08.It should never have happened. After cutting 25% in the last Parliament,

:17:09. > :17:12.right up until the night before the Comprehensive Spending Review, the

:17:13. > :17:18.Government was contemplating a further 22% cut in this Parliament.

:17:19. > :17:24.The Home Secretary quite simply failing to stand up for the police

:17:25. > :17:29.service. We were on the brink of complete catastrophe, as a police

:17:30. > :17:33.officer said to me yesterday, which would have had very serious

:17:34. > :17:37.consequences. I have to say demonstrating a disregard for the

:17:38. > :17:42.first duty of any Government, which is the safety and security of its

:17:43. > :17:50.citizens. But under, Mr Deputy Speaker, under pressure from the

:17:51. > :17:55.public, from the police, and from the Labour Party, the Chancellor

:17:56. > :17:59.U-turned and a promise was made and I would like to read it. I think,

:18:00. > :18:04.quite clearly, the Police Minister has forgotten it. He said, "I am

:18:05. > :18:09.today announcing that there will be no cuts in the police budget at all.

:18:10. > :18:13.There will be real-term protection for police funding. The police

:18:14. > :18:17.protectors and we are going to protect the police." To make this

:18:18. > :18:23.point, in parallel, there were big cuts elsewhere for example to the

:18:24. > :18:28.Border Force, but let's examine that statement to the House. That

:18:29. > :18:32.statement, that promise to the public, to the police, and to

:18:33. > :18:38.Parliament has been broken. The Chancellor said he would protect the

:18:39. > :18:43.police but now we know that police budgets are still being cut. Take

:18:44. > :18:47.the force, take the force covering my constituency, the West Midlands

:18:48. > :18:55.Police service, an excellent police service, they are suffering in the

:18:56. > :18:58.next financial year a ?10.2 million cut in real terms, in real terms,

:18:59. > :19:05.contrary to what the Police Minister said earlier on, in real terms. Yes,

:19:06. > :19:11.they are using the ?5 mechanism, but it will raise but ?3.3 million, so

:19:12. > :19:22.?7 million cut overall in real terms. I give way. Does he agree

:19:23. > :19:32.specifically on the point about the pre-set, a force like Northumbria,

:19:33. > :19:36.under our excellent PCC, has had the lowest pre-set and has had to accept

:19:37. > :19:42.that ?5 maximum with great regret to try and maintain services? I totally

:19:43. > :19:46.agree with the honourable lady. Can I pay tribute to somebody who was a

:19:47. > :19:53.great parliamentarian, and she has been a great Police and Crime

:19:54. > :19:58.Commissioner. The work Vera Baird has done on domestic violence is

:19:59. > :20:01.admirable and first-class. And you are absolutely right, because as I

:20:02. > :20:08.will come to say later on, Northumbria is like the West

:20:09. > :20:11.Midlands, it has been hit twice as hard as leafy Tory shire police

:20:12. > :20:14.thank my honourable friend for thank my honourable friend for

:20:15. > :20:19.giving way. Will he also reflect and agree with me that some of our

:20:20. > :20:23.police forces are very stretched by the crime that they are dealing with

:20:24. > :20:29.at the moment, the Greater Manchester Police in Salford, we

:20:30. > :20:32.have had 19 shootings in a period of 20 months, very regular, some

:20:33. > :20:36.weekends, four shootings in the same day. This protection of the public

:20:37. > :20:39.issue is important. Why should our police force be so stretched in

:20:40. > :20:48.Greater Manchester when they have that to deal with? It is a real

:20:49. > :20:51.issue. 8.5 million cut in real terms, in real terms, contrary to

:20:52. > :20:56.what was said at this dispatch box. What we are seeing is profoundly

:20:57. > :21:00.worrying signs that after a generation of progress, despite the

:21:01. > :21:03.heroic efforts of the Police and Crime Commissioner, Tony Lloyd, and

:21:04. > :21:07.the Greater Manchester Police service, is crime is starting to

:21:08. > :21:17.rise once again. I give way. He is absolutely right to be pointing out

:21:18. > :21:21.this sleight of hand by the Government. The real unfairness is

:21:22. > :21:26.this. We have a relatively low council tax base, so the precept

:21:27. > :21:31.brings in relatively small amounts of funding. Nothing like the amounts

:21:32. > :21:35.of funding that have been cut by the central government grants. But added

:21:36. > :21:39.to that, they are the areas that tend to have the higher crime rates,

:21:40. > :21:46.so need is not matched by the resources. It is a double whammy for

:21:47. > :21:49.the urban areas and it really penalises places like Greater

:21:50. > :21:53.Manchester. The honourable gentleman puts it very powerfully. There is no

:21:54. > :21:56.question of it, but that need is not that which determines the way this

:21:57. > :21:59.Government allocates funds. Whether it is to the police service, or

:22:00. > :22:07.whether it is to local government. I will return to that point

:22:08. > :22:11.specifically later on. So, Mr Deputy Speaker, in relation then to broken

:22:12. > :22:15.promises, there was another broken promise. The Prime Minister said in

:22:16. > :22:19.2010 that he would protect the front-line - can I stress once

:22:20. > :22:24.again, not true - 12,000 front-line officers have since been lost. A

:22:25. > :22:28.broken promise. And to add insult to injury, not only are the Tories

:22:29. > :22:33.continuing to slash police funding, but they are expecting the public to

:22:34. > :22:39.pay more for it. The Tories' sums rely on local people being charged

:22:40. > :22:44.an extra ?369 million in council tax. To finish this point - our

:22:45. > :22:48.citizens therefore and our communities that we serve are being

:22:49. > :22:55.asked to pay more for less. I give way. In a forward-looking county

:22:56. > :22:59.like Hertfordshire, which has the pressures of supporting London and

:23:00. > :23:05.Luton, major roads to police, it's been possible through modern methods

:23:06. > :23:09.to use more police on the front-line, more modern methods and

:23:10. > :23:13.they are cutting the precept in Hertfordshire for the police and

:23:14. > :23:21.finding the funding settlement perfectly adequate. Every week I see

:23:22. > :23:25.innovation in the police service, of that there is no doubt. Could I take

:23:26. > :23:29.one point from what the honourable gentleman is saying? In relation to

:23:30. > :23:34.road policing, there are profoundly worrying signs that the progress

:23:35. > :23:40.that has been made over many years, particularly under the last Labour

:23:41. > :23:48.Government, in reducing road deaths, that progress is being reversed as a

:23:49. > :23:52.consequence of cutbacks. Innovation I'm in favour of. Greater

:23:53. > :23:57.collaboration, between the Police and Fire Service, likewise.

:23:58. > :24:03.Ultimately, there is a simple, grim reality. The remorseless downward

:24:04. > :24:06.pressure on our police service, the people who are paying the price are

:24:07. > :24:13.not just our police officers, but the public that we serve. Now, Mr

:24:14. > :24:24.Speaker, we - can I - all right. On the basis that I believe you are an

:24:25. > :24:28.old Macmillanite, I will give way. Wouldn't he agree with me that if

:24:29. > :24:32.you look around the country at the reserves that the police forces

:24:33. > :24:36.have, they are very substantial. In Hertfordshire, 48 million. Around

:24:37. > :24:45.the country, as high as 71 in one case. Well, I think, if I can put it

:24:46. > :24:55.this way, as we used to say in the T, that is a canard. Of course it

:24:56. > :25:02.is right that use should be made of reserves. Why are reserves built up?

:25:03. > :25:06.It ranges from investment in bringing together three or four

:25:07. > :25:11.buildings into one, like has been done in Birmingham for the West

:25:12. > :25:16.Midlands Police service, through better technological equipping of

:25:17. > :25:17.our police service, because we need a technological revolution in

:25:18. > :25:28.policing in Britain. Planning ahead because we need to

:25:29. > :25:32.recruit more police officers. So even if the overall numbers are

:25:33. > :25:37.falling, at least you are bringing in some fresh blood to the service.

:25:38. > :25:42.If you look at the various studies that have been done of the police

:25:43. > :25:46.reserves, including by the National Audit Office, it has never stood up

:25:47. > :25:52.this line that says, somehow, there are hundreds of millions there which

:25:53. > :25:57.only the -- which if only the police to used, all would be well. We are

:25:58. > :26:03.with the police when they say that efficiency savings can be made. For

:26:04. > :26:08.example, crucially, in the run-up to the last general election, we

:26:09. > :26:14.ourselves identified ?172 million that could be saved by mandated

:26:15. > :26:20.procurement alone. Taken together with other measures like, for

:26:21. > :26:24.example, full cost recovery on gun licences, ending this bizarre

:26:25. > :26:27.arrangement where the police have to subsidise the granting of gun

:26:28. > :26:33.licences, if that plan had been embraced by this government, we

:26:34. > :26:40.would have saved 10,000 police officers in the first three years of

:26:41. > :26:45.this Parliament. Now, efficiency savings are one thing. Ultimately,

:26:46. > :26:49.decisions have to be made, and we listened to the police, because in

:26:50. > :26:54.light of the tragic attacks in Paris, they said up to 5% efficiency

:26:55. > :27:02.savings, yes, we think we can make those. We identified ourselves how

:27:03. > :27:05.one could do that. It was clear beyond any doubt, the chilling

:27:06. > :27:11.message from the police who are so vital in maintaining our security,

:27:12. > :27:18.that to go beyond that would be to compromise public safety. The police

:27:19. > :27:27.said, and I will never forget, the very powerful letter from the head

:27:28. > :27:30.of counterterrorism, when he said, post-Paris now we have to look

:27:31. > :27:41.afresh. There was an exercise in government. Now we have to look

:27:42. > :27:46.afresh. Ultimately, numbers matter. Forgive me if I finish this very

:27:47. > :27:50.important point. Numbers matter. You need a surge capacity on the one

:27:51. > :27:54.hand in the light of an attack like Paris. You need neighbourhood

:27:55. > :27:59.policing by the way of intelligence gathering on the other hand, and you

:28:00. > :28:06.need more firearms officers. Indeed, we have got 6000 firearms officers,

:28:07. > :28:10.that is 1000 firearms officers, down from 2008. We listened to the

:28:11. > :28:16.police. I will give way to somebody who has not already spoken.

:28:17. > :28:20.I'm very grateful to the Shadow Minister for giving way. It is all

:28:21. > :28:24.well and good bandying numbers and saying we must have the ability of

:28:25. > :28:27.armed officers to make a surge, but if his party leader is to be

:28:28. > :28:31.believed, what are they going to do, just waved guns at people and say,

:28:32. > :28:37.please stop what you are doing with that would he take the opportunity

:28:38. > :28:42.to disassociate himself from his leader's remarks about what armed

:28:43. > :28:56.police can and cannot do? We all of us on this

:28:57. > :29:00.site have a very simple view. If I can draw a parallel with a deeply

:29:01. > :29:03.moving statement I heard one of those Parisien officers making, when

:29:04. > :29:05.he and his colleagues went into the Bataclan club. Innocent men and

:29:06. > :29:10.women, including British citizens, terrified by Joe practising the most

:29:11. > :29:17.appalling form of terrorism. He said, I had to make a split-second

:29:18. > :29:21.judgment. I made it. As a consequence, I saved lives. That is

:29:22. > :29:27.our very clear position. I will give way. I thank the Shadow Minister for

:29:28. > :29:32.giving way. I am slightly confused. He says savings can be made. The

:29:33. > :29:38.statement today includes a real term increase in anti-terrified and in,

:29:39. > :29:41.so why are the Labour party opposing this settlement? Because when

:29:42. > :29:49.announcements were made by the Government, after Paris, there was a

:29:50. > :29:51.series of announcements made. There was one which predated Paris but

:29:52. > :29:58.that was the investigatory Powers Bill. We said we support the broad

:29:59. > :30:02.approach of the Government, which says you need advanced means to

:30:03. > :30:12.combat those who use the .net. We support the Government who use more

:30:13. > :30:15.money for MI5, MI6, GCHQ. We supported the Government when it

:30:16. > :30:19.said there would be additional resources made available from the

:30:20. > :30:24.British Army for counterterrorism, but ultimately, it came down to

:30:25. > :30:28.this. If you listen to Chris Sims, the former Chief Constable of the

:30:29. > :30:32.West Midlands on the one hand, or on the other hand, to Bernard Hogan

:30:33. > :30:39.Howe here in London, they say a majority of the leads that lead us

:30:40. > :30:43.to detecting who terrorists are comes from good neighbourhood

:30:44. > :30:46.policing. If you have continuing downward pressure on neighbourhood

:30:47. > :30:52.policing, hollowing out of neighbourhood policing, in the words

:30:53. > :30:57.of Mark Rowley, it is the ayes and ears of counterterrorism effort. It

:30:58. > :31:01.is not enough simply to acquit the special services and special forces

:31:02. > :31:06.with additional powers, neighbourhood policing is important

:31:07. > :31:13.on every front and in particular on counterterrorism. Mr Deputy Speaker,

:31:14. > :31:18.the simple reality is neighbourhood policing will continue to be

:31:19. > :31:23.hollowed out. 18,000 officers have been lost since the current Prime

:31:24. > :31:29.Minister took office in 2010. 1300 have gone in the last six months

:31:30. > :31:33.alone. Today confirms that the Tory's back door cuts to police

:31:34. > :31:39.forces will inevitably lead to further police officer losses. Mr

:31:40. > :31:44.Deputy Speaker, it would appear that the Government is oblivious to the

:31:45. > :31:47.consequences of its actions. The former head of the Association of

:31:48. > :31:51.Chief Police Officers, as it was, Hugh Orde, was right when he said a

:31:52. > :31:59.generation of progress is being reversed. Police in the 21st century

:32:00. > :32:04.face in addition new challenges of terrorism, cyber crime, child sex

:32:05. > :32:08.exploitation and abuse. The threats undoubtedly to the British security

:32:09. > :32:12.in the 21st century demand a modernised, more responsive and

:32:13. > :32:19.better equipped police service, not a smaller one. And when the police

:32:20. > :32:25.minister said in defence of the Government's position, that crime is

:32:26. > :32:30.falling, not true. Crime is changing, and in July of this year,

:32:31. > :32:34.when we see the estimated 6 million cyber and online crimes included in

:32:35. > :32:41.the official statistics, we will see crime nylon double. Resources are

:32:42. > :32:46.diminishing, just when demand is soaring. Not just those triple

:32:47. > :32:50.challenges, but police recorded crime is rising, and some of the

:32:51. > :32:57.most serious crimes have soared to the highest level in years. A major

:32:58. > :33:02.increase in knife crime, up 9%. A 27% rise in violent crime, including

:33:03. > :33:08.a 14% increase in the murder rate, while sexual offences have gone up

:33:09. > :33:20.36%. Reported rape was the highest since 2003, and victims are being

:33:21. > :33:23.let down, with half of cases closed without a suspect being identified.

:33:24. > :33:25.And increasingly, the police are being left to pick up the pieces as

:33:26. > :33:29.are other public agencies are slashed. Who is it too goes after

:33:30. > :33:33.looked after children if you have social services departments in

:33:34. > :33:39.councils badly depleted? It seems to be the case... I will continue and

:33:40. > :33:45.conclude my remarks, because forgive me if I say it, I have been generous

:33:46. > :33:49.with interventions. I want to see the maximum time for contributions

:33:50. > :33:54.to be made in this important debate. The Home Secretary doesn't seem to

:33:55. > :33:58.understand the challenges to the modern police service, or the

:33:59. > :34:01.complexity of the modern police service, because despite his massive

:34:02. > :34:08.and growing challenges, not only are police budgets being cut, but the

:34:09. > :34:11.funding formula fiasco, in which the Home Office misallocated hundreds of

:34:12. > :34:15.millions of pounds of police funding, means that the doomed

:34:16. > :34:20.review of the unfair funding formula has been delayed for another year.

:34:21. > :34:25.That means a stopgap settlement of only a year. More uncertainty, more

:34:26. > :34:32.unfairness. My force, the West Midlands and Northumbria, both

:34:33. > :34:37.facing cuts which are double that, which Surrey receives. I spoke

:34:38. > :34:42.earlier when the honourable gentleman intervened. There was a

:34:43. > :34:54.second tradition, the tradition of Robert Peel but the second

:34:55. > :35:02.tradition, the tradition of Harold Macmillan, of noblesse oblige, of

:35:03. > :35:06.serving the nation. Quite frankly, in both this settlement and in the

:35:07. > :35:11.local government settlement that will be debated later, there has

:35:12. > :35:15.been a grotesque unfairness of approach where need has been ignored

:35:16. > :35:21.in favour of political heartlands being looked after. But in bringing

:35:22. > :35:28.my remarks to a conclusion, I would ask the Minister three questions.

:35:29. > :35:31.First, on unimportant detail, where exactly is the funding for the

:35:32. > :35:38.National International capital city Grant coming from? Why is it in the

:35:39. > :35:42.published information, not included in the core police settlement

:35:43. > :35:47.figure? Second, when will the Minister finally replace the broken

:35:48. > :35:50.funding formula and give forces the long-term certainty they need to

:35:51. > :35:56.modernise, and address the challenges of the 21st century? He

:35:57. > :36:00.expects to implement the new formula in the 1718 financial year. We will

:36:01. > :36:06.need a new formula by the end of this year at the latest. Will he

:36:07. > :36:12.begin to review the progress in that in the near future. And third, when

:36:13. > :36:16.will the Minister for policing stop this financial roller-coaster, and

:36:17. > :36:24.finally be frank about the public and the police about the cuts that

:36:25. > :36:29.he and the Home Secretary in pain -- intend to impose? In conclusion, yes

:36:30. > :36:32.we will vote against this police grant settlement, because for this

:36:33. > :36:36.side of the House, the first duty of any government, and of any

:36:37. > :36:42.parliament is the safety and security of its citizens. Yes, we

:36:43. > :36:46.will vote against, because that is what is at risk if we continue down

:36:47. > :36:53.this path of remorseless reduction in the number of police officers. Mr

:36:54. > :37:00.Deputy Speaker, quite simply, the time has come to put public safety

:37:01. > :37:05.first, and to cut crime, not cut cops.

:37:06. > :37:10.John Stevenson. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I would like to say a few

:37:11. > :37:17.words about funding and the situation in Cumbria. Firstly there

:37:18. > :37:21.is the police budget we are discussing and the police funding

:37:22. > :37:25.formula which is for the future but of equal importance. Before saying

:37:26. > :37:30.anything specific, I would like to make one or two general

:37:31. > :37:34.observations. It is well documented that Carlyle and Cumbria experienced

:37:35. > :37:40.serious flooding prior to Christmas. This was a very large local

:37:41. > :37:45.emergency. I have to say the Cumbria Constabulary rose to that challenge

:37:46. > :37:49.brilliantly. They offered leadership in Cumbria, they offered practical

:37:50. > :37:54.support, there was the coordination of the emergency services and there

:37:55. > :37:58.was a lot of empathy. I met one PC who himself was flooded and instead

:37:59. > :38:03.of being at home, he was on duty helping everybody else. This

:38:04. > :38:08.demonstrated to me the importance of the police have over and above their

:38:09. > :38:13.normal duties. I would also like to pay tribute to the Cumbrian PCC

:38:14. > :38:21.Richard Rhodes. He has led Cumbria extremely well in a mature and

:38:22. > :38:26.professional way and he has wide support across the county. This

:38:27. > :38:29.demonstrates to me that the creation of the police crime Commissioners

:38:30. > :38:37.was the right one and I will be supporting their continuation. I

:38:38. > :38:41.will then turn to two issues, please funding in general. The House will

:38:42. > :38:47.recall the debate that was initiated by the opposition, calling for a 10%

:38:48. > :38:52.cut in police funding. I welcome the decision of the Government not to

:38:53. > :38:59.follow the opposition's lead but to maintain and increase funding for

:39:00. > :39:02.the police. We recognise there are still difficult financial

:39:03. > :39:06.circumstances. This will be welcomed in Cumbria and has certainly been

:39:07. > :39:10.welcomed by the Cumbrian Constabulary. We recognise the

:39:11. > :39:16.police are an important part of our society, they are the lead emergency

:39:17. > :39:19.service, and with concerns about security and safety, this funding

:39:20. > :39:23.will give confidence to our communities. The other important

:39:24. > :39:27.issues the police funding formula and I would refer back to my earlier

:39:28. > :39:33.comments. Floods brought home to me how important it is that we have a

:39:34. > :39:36.Cumbria police force. They offer leadership, local knowledge and an

:39:37. > :39:43.ability to respond which I'm not convinced would have been there if

:39:44. > :39:44.Cumbria had been part of a larger, Morimoto police force with

:39:45. > :39:53.headquarters elsewhere than in Cumbria. The funding formula would

:39:54. > :39:57.have a negative impact on Cumbria. My local newspaper recognised this

:39:58. > :40:02.and ran a campaign which attracted a huge amount of support, and it

:40:03. > :40:07.demonstrated again to me that support for a Cumbria police force

:40:08. > :40:10.was deep rooted. I was therefore delighted when the minister was in

:40:11. > :40:16.listening mode and took on board the potential problems and issues for

:40:17. > :40:20.places like Cumbria and agreed to postpone or pull-back from going

:40:21. > :40:25.forward with his consultation in introducing a new formula and I wait

:40:26. > :40:28.for the new consultation to come out. Therefore, I would take this

:40:29. > :40:33.opportunity to emphasise what the key issues are for my county, which

:40:34. > :40:39.are the morale of tea and sparsity. -- room relative. There are half a

:40:40. > :40:47.million people on Cumbria but if you superimposed them there would be 20

:40:48. > :40:51.million people. There is a large mountain range and we are long way

:40:52. > :40:58.from any other urban centre. Manchester is two hours away, even

:40:59. > :41:02.Newcastle is over an hour. I look forward to the consultation and I

:41:03. > :41:08.will certainly be participating in it. I would quite simply conclude by

:41:09. > :41:11.saying I give full support to the Government financing in the present

:41:12. > :41:17.settlement and I'm glad to see we are still the party of the police

:41:18. > :41:21.and the party of law and order. Keith Vaz. Thank you, it is a

:41:22. > :41:25.pleasure to follow the honourable member for Carlisle who has put some

:41:26. > :41:30.important points forward for discussion during this debate. He

:41:31. > :41:33.may claim his side is the party of police and Lauren order, but let's

:41:34. > :41:38.make this all party and we can all praise the work of the local police

:41:39. > :41:48.force, and all support the principles of the rule of law and

:41:49. > :41:50.law and order. I think that is something which will go across the

:41:51. > :41:53.whole house. The minister began by paying tribute to the appointment of

:41:54. > :41:56.the new sergeant Irv Arms who was formerly in the Ministry of Justice

:41:57. > :42:02.but has now taken his place in the House -- Serjeant at Arms.

:42:03. > :42:09.Not just because it is huge qualities, I welcome him, but also

:42:10. > :42:14.the first ethnic minority Serjeant at Arms in the history of

:42:15. > :42:20.Parliament. He was appointed absolutely on merit. Mr Deputy

:42:21. > :42:24.Speaker, as the Serjeant at Arms was not in place when I pay tribute

:42:25. > :42:30.earlier on, may I pay tribute again. Not only did I have the honour of

:42:31. > :42:34.giving him a reference for this job, he comes from one of the great

:42:35. > :42:39.regiments of the British Army. We will now have another tribute to the

:42:40. > :42:43.Serjeant at Arms from the shadow minister policing. I'm grateful now

:42:44. > :42:49.that the Serjeant of arms is in place, I was grateful to shake his

:42:50. > :42:54.hand the other day. These deeply welcome to the House, we welcome to

:42:55. > :43:00.have here. It is a long and honourable role in the House, like

:43:01. > :43:06.the right honourable member, I celebrate the first ethnic minority

:43:07. > :43:11.Serjeant at Arms. What I would say, there was plenty of time, everybody

:43:12. > :43:17.is welcome to him. It is the Policing Bill, we want to get

:43:18. > :43:29.through, we only have to forro three p.m.. Absolutely Mr Speaker, we move

:43:30. > :43:35.on. We move on to the debate on the Police Grant. I am pleased to see

:43:36. > :43:42.the honourable member in place, when he was police minister, funding was

:43:43. > :43:46.provided. The House voted in support of every one of emotions he put

:43:47. > :43:53.before the House when he was police Minister. It did provide additional

:43:54. > :43:58.funding. Can I pay tribute to my local police force? Tomorrow

:43:59. > :44:03.Leicestershire police force will celebrate their 180th anniversary at

:44:04. > :44:09.a ceremony in Leicester Cathedral and at the Guildhall. I want a page

:44:10. > :44:13.or be to my Chief Constable, Simon Cole, for the excellent work it

:44:14. > :44:23.does. And the police and crime commission. And to say how sorry I

:44:24. > :44:29.was that Sir Clive will be sent standing down, because he has made a

:44:30. > :44:33.superb effort and all-party basis to tackling crime in the local area.

:44:34. > :44:38.They make a great team. We need to acknowledge what happens at a local

:44:39. > :44:42.level. We are in parliament talking about global figures, but policing

:44:43. > :44:46.is about what happens to local people on the front line. Sitting on

:44:47. > :44:51.the Home Affairs Select Committee we are very conscious of that when we

:44:52. > :44:55.discuss the big issues. It is what happens at a local level which

:44:56. > :45:01.matters. As I have said to the minister before. The current police

:45:02. > :45:08.funding formula does mean that we are ?5.6 million a year less well

:45:09. > :45:13.off than other equivalent authorities, like, for example,

:45:14. > :45:20.Derbyshire. The police and crime commission has recommended an uplift

:45:21. > :45:27.to the maximum amount permissible, 1.90%. On behalf of my local area, I

:45:28. > :45:32.welcome the fact that there are no further cuts we can see in the

:45:33. > :45:37.figures that have been given. However, as has been said, there are

:45:38. > :45:43.17,000 fewer police officers stand there were when this government took

:45:44. > :45:47.office. This is a matter of concern. As the Minister knows, I said to

:45:48. > :45:53.them, I welcomed the fact he decided to tackle the issue of police

:45:54. > :45:59.funding. And to look at the issue of formula. He came before the House,

:46:00. > :46:05.in his own words, eating humble pie. Modest as always, recognising that

:46:06. > :46:11.the whole funding formula procedure was a bit of a shambles, as the

:46:12. > :46:14.select committee said in its report. I know the shadow minister would

:46:15. > :46:20.like to claim credit on behalf of the Labour Party,. In the government

:46:21. > :46:24.in its tracks, but he should remember the Home Affairs Select

:46:25. > :46:33.Committee conducted an enquiry into this, and one of our members is here

:46:34. > :46:39.the honourable lady for Louth and Horncastle. Following her assault on

:46:40. > :46:46.Julian Symons during pro Minister questions. I'm not saying he should

:46:47. > :46:49.take none of the credit. He is not a liberal Democrat, you doesn't have

:46:50. > :46:55.to take all the credit for these things. The select committee have

:46:56. > :47:00.hearings. We considered evidence, and we conducted the process was a

:47:01. > :47:09.shambles, and it needed to be looked at again. And it needed to be

:47:10. > :47:13.agreed, it took Devon and Cornwall, Andrew White, the Chief Executive,

:47:14. > :47:19.to tell the country where very senior and learn it and intelligent

:47:20. > :47:25.people in the Minister's apartment worth unable to tell us the formula

:47:26. > :47:30.was wrong. I rate to the Minister on the first ferry to ask him on an

:47:31. > :47:36.update on the consultation for the police funding formula. The process

:47:37. > :47:42.he began was actually very important. He agreed to consult. In

:47:43. > :47:46.the committee's report, we set out a process we thought he should follow.

:47:47. > :47:54.I know he doesn't respect the work of the select committee, he says so

:47:55. > :47:58.on a number of occasions. In our 10th recommendation, we even

:47:59. > :48:03.suggested a number of organisations that could be part of that process.

:48:04. > :48:10.He says to me, that he wrote to me yesterday. Actually, the letter has

:48:11. > :48:15.not arrived. When we discussed changes in policing, we talk about

:48:16. > :48:19.investment in IT, I wonder whether the private office of the Minister

:48:20. > :48:25.could invest in e-mail. E-mailing me the letter would be a very quick way

:48:26. > :48:30.of ensuring I had it before the debate. We all await and watch our

:48:31. > :48:36.e-mail at this moment, waiting for this letter which was supposed to be

:48:37. > :48:40.sent yesterday. I know he has a number of officials here today.

:48:41. > :48:44.Maybe that is why there is nobody in the office sending out e-mails. I

:48:45. > :48:49.would like to receive it so I can share it with other members of the

:48:50. > :48:52.committee. I hope it will tell us that the consultation process is

:48:53. > :49:00.about to begin. What we don't want to do is to run out of time on this

:49:01. > :49:05.process. I believe him when he says that he once the widest possible

:49:06. > :49:09.consultation. He is right, he met with me and every other member who

:49:10. > :49:18.came to see them. That is the right thing to do. Unless we start this

:49:19. > :49:24.process, consult with the Chiefs and the PCCs and the police chiefs

:49:25. > :49:29.Council, and other parties in this House, we will not get to a final

:49:30. > :49:33.conclusion. Maybe the letter will arrive before I finish speaking, we

:49:34. > :49:37.don't know, we would like to come as soon as possible. I thank my right

:49:38. > :49:41.honourable friend for giving way, making a very thoughtful and

:49:42. > :49:46.effective speech. I want to ask him, as part of the consultation, will

:49:47. > :49:52.they take on board the issue, which I raised with the front bench, that

:49:53. > :49:56.some police forces are peculiarly stretched by a local crime surge. In

:49:57. > :50:01.Salford we have suffered the issue of 21 shooting is taking place over

:50:02. > :50:04.18 months. The rolling out of neighbourhood policing, which I have

:50:05. > :50:08.seen and we have talked about in the debate is a very serious issue. The

:50:09. > :50:11.police have so much more to do because of a crime surge like we

:50:12. > :50:17.have seen in Salford, that should be addressed. My honourable friend is

:50:18. > :50:21.absolutely right, I have visited her constituency, I know these are

:50:22. > :50:25.important issues. At the end of the day we need to give the police the

:50:26. > :50:28.resources that they need, but these kind of issues have to be handled

:50:29. > :50:34.locally. It does need to be addressed and monitored. 1.I hope we

:50:35. > :50:38.will be able to cover, maybe the Minister can cover it in his closing

:50:39. > :50:43.remarks, the issue of the extension of the contract to the Mitch Garbutt

:50:44. > :50:49.Commissioner. It is really important we do not get into a position as we

:50:50. > :50:52.have with water cannon, Mr Deputy Speaker, where the Mayor of London

:50:53. > :50:59.waited a whole year for a decision to be made as to whether or not

:51:00. > :51:04.water cannon should be used. The Commissioner is set to appear before

:51:05. > :51:14.the select committee on the 23rd at the very few discuss this and other

:51:15. > :51:17.matters. -- 23rd of February. I hope he is able to meet with the Mayor of

:51:18. > :51:23.London to give some sort of indication, because that sort of

:51:24. > :51:26.security at the top of the Met, which represents one fifth of

:51:27. > :51:32.policing in our country, in budgets, it is really important. I hope that

:51:33. > :51:39.will remind the Minister that these decisions need to be made, in the

:51:40. > :51:45.interests of policing is a whole, the commission and Parliament. Two

:51:46. > :51:50.final points I would like to raise. The first is the wider issue, of

:51:51. > :51:56.what exactly we want the police to do. One of the recommendations we

:51:57. > :52:02.made in our report, what are the drivers of crime and police demand?

:52:03. > :52:07.Of course we live in tough times. The government of course will blame

:52:08. > :52:11.the opposition for what it did when it was in government. The issue

:52:12. > :52:15.remains, resources are always going to be something Parliament and the

:52:16. > :52:20.government is going to look at very carefully. I think the police

:52:21. > :52:25.service needs to know exactly what the government is prepared to fund.

:52:26. > :52:30.Is it more work, as far as immigration is concerned? We see

:52:31. > :52:34.police officers acting nowadays as if they were immigration officers,

:52:35. > :52:41.because they deal with so much of these issues. And they did not deal

:52:42. > :52:46.with previously. The Minister knows the House knows the number of cases

:52:47. > :52:50.that get to the custody suite, because those who are there are

:52:51. > :52:54.actually suffering from mental illnesses, and should not be there

:52:55. > :52:58.in the first place. Police officers are being used as social workers. We

:52:59. > :53:08.know meetings with local authorities and others, "Ree is take up a whole

:53:09. > :53:12.lot of time. When we begin the consultation on police funding and

:53:13. > :53:16.the formula, the Minister needs to tell police forces exactly what the

:53:17. > :53:23.government is prepared to fund. I know the government has turned its

:53:24. > :53:27.nose up at the idea of a Royal commission. The committee favoured

:53:28. > :53:31.this in the last Parliament. We do need to look at what we want our

:53:32. > :53:38.police officers to do, they cannot do everything. At the moment they

:53:39. > :53:41.are doing everything. The appointees making, sometimes we over rely on

:53:42. > :53:45.our police for a lot of things stop controversy in my constituency

:53:46. > :53:50.because the police were not able to police the Armistice Day March. When

:53:51. > :53:54.it came to get there were plenty of local councillors and volunteers who

:53:55. > :53:59.were able to do that, without using the police resources, it was a great

:54:00. > :54:03.success. She is absolutely right, there are other people who can step

:54:04. > :54:08.in. Those of us who are supporters of football clubs, including

:54:09. > :54:14.Leicester City, currently the premises leader, when we go to these

:54:15. > :54:23.football matches, we see a lot of police officers on duty. Part of

:54:24. > :54:26.that could be policed by stewards, who are not warranted officers. You

:54:27. > :54:32.don't need warranted officers to do everything. The honourable lady is

:54:33. > :54:36.absolutely right. The Minister has a real opportunity this year to set

:54:37. > :54:45.his mark on the history of policing. Because he was prepared to tackle

:54:46. > :54:52.the issue of the police funding formula, and get the brickbats you

:54:53. > :54:55.do when you are dealing with vested interests, but he set out principles

:54:56. > :55:00.and a model which can stay for a generation. To do that, you must

:55:01. > :55:10.consult, and begin the consultation immediately. I'm very grateful for

:55:11. > :55:17.the opportunity to add my comments to this important debate. The local

:55:18. > :55:20.policing subject is one I feel very strongly and have a very great

:55:21. > :55:27.interest. Policing and crime rates are great concern to my constituents

:55:28. > :55:29.and all of ours. I get letters from constituents asking what this

:55:30. > :55:34.government is doing to help bring down crime rates. I welcome the

:55:35. > :55:41.reduction in crime over the last years. But recognise the need to

:55:42. > :55:43.make savings, and I commend the Home Office for the very tough decisions

:55:44. > :55:49.they have taken over the course of the last Parliament. I want to

:55:50. > :55:57.express my huge welcome for the announcement in the Autumn Statement

:55:58. > :56:04.that we will keep policing on a stable footing.

:56:05. > :56:10.In particular, in conjunction with the flexibility given around the

:56:11. > :56:17.precept, especially for those with the lowest precepts in the country

:56:18. > :56:20.such as Essex. Given my constituents' natural concerns

:56:21. > :56:24.around crime rates, I took it upon myself to a role in the police

:56:25. > :56:28.Parliamentary scheme, which I would strongly recommend to all honourable

:56:29. > :56:32.members. It is quite a time commitment, it is 20 days at least

:56:33. > :56:35.in different parts of the force, but it has given me a very strong and

:56:36. > :56:42.valuable insight into the true pressures of the police, the changes

:56:43. > :56:47.and innovations they need to bring in and are bringing in. I would like

:56:48. > :56:50.to put on record my enormous gratitude to Chief Inspector Stephen

:56:51. > :56:53.Kavanagh and all of those who I went out with who made me feel extremely

:56:54. > :56:58.welcome and have been extremely supportive. I have had some

:56:59. > :57:05.extraordinary opportunities on this scheme. I have been with the Juno

:57:06. > :57:08.teams tackling domestic silence and seen how enormously the police

:57:09. > :57:13.approach has taken to domestic violence and how quickly they have

:57:14. > :57:17.adopted or example the new stalking legislation we brought in, and how

:57:18. > :57:24.focused they are on that, which is part of their approach to the hidden

:57:25. > :57:31.harms. I will give way. Has my honourable friend also learned of

:57:32. > :57:36.the welcome with which police officers are bringing on the

:57:37. > :57:42.introduction of on body cameras, because one of the great hopes for

:57:43. > :57:47.those cameras is it will greatly assist persecuting domestic violence

:57:48. > :57:52.cases. Absolutely, I have seen them in action which they can use when

:57:53. > :57:55.they have been called to a domestic dispute and they will then have

:57:56. > :58:01.evidence they arrive of their own which they can use in court, for

:58:02. > :58:04.example, in situations where the victim of domestic violence is

:58:05. > :58:09.nervous or reluctant to come forward and they can prosecute on her

:58:10. > :58:14.behalf. It does rely on our police remembering to turn them on so they

:58:15. > :58:19.are doing good training on that! The police themselves are very pleased

:58:20. > :58:28.to have it. I should also say I have visited a custody suite and

:58:29. > :58:31.honourable member will understand my reluctance for being photographed

:58:32. > :58:39.anywhere near the cells! I see the pressures they have their and is not

:58:40. > :58:44.without difficulties to modernise to new technology. I have also been out

:58:45. > :58:51.with CID and seen the forensic labs. Most of all, I also went to a drug

:58:52. > :58:59.factory which was very interesting. I went to a cannabis factory. It is

:59:00. > :59:03.not often a member of Parliament goes to a cannabis factory. I have

:59:04. > :59:13.also looked at how they deal with the problem of modern day slavery

:59:14. > :59:16.and the sensitivity about how they approach to the gardener is, person

:59:17. > :59:25.who is often left without real means of escape. There are big changes to

:59:26. > :59:30.the way our police are policing and they are standing up to the

:59:31. > :59:34.challenge in what is a difficult funding circumstance. What has

:59:35. > :59:39.overwhelmingly struck me is the sheer commitment and dedication to

:59:40. > :59:43.our police officers. I definitely expected professionalism but I did

:59:44. > :59:47.not expect how passionate they are about their work and to the extent

:59:48. > :59:53.they care about the communities they serve. I want on record my thanks to

:59:54. > :00:00.them and to Stephen Kavanagh for the scheme and do do it. Essex police,

:00:01. > :00:05.whose motto is sworn to serve, has long been an efficient force. I

:00:06. > :00:14.could wax lyrical about this for a long time. It is a very long and

:00:15. > :00:18.honourable and proud constabulary. Her Majesty 's Inspectorate of

:00:19. > :00:22.Constabulary have repeatedly found that Essex police provides better

:00:23. > :00:31.value for money than other police forces. They have a deep programme

:00:32. > :00:34.of collaboration with Kent Police as was mentioned earlier, and

:00:35. > :00:37.collaborating with other forces in the East of England. Wales have one

:00:38. > :00:42.of the lowest reserves in the country so did not have the option

:00:43. > :00:46.to absorb extra pressures and costs by reducing their reserves. The fact

:00:47. > :00:50.they have been able to be successful in what their doom exit all the more

:00:51. > :00:54.remarkable. They continue to look for efficiencies to make sure public

:00:55. > :01:01.money is spent on keeping the public safe. I thank my honourable friend

:01:02. > :01:06.for giving way and she has made an effective point about her local

:01:07. > :01:09.police force and I intend if I get called to speak later, I will say

:01:10. > :01:14.there are similar efficiencies in Lancashire Police. Would she join me

:01:15. > :01:19.in welcoming the ?55 million through the police innovation fund which

:01:20. > :01:21.will continue to allow forces to modernise and create greater

:01:22. > :01:27.efficiencies in the way they operate? I absolutely welcome the

:01:28. > :01:31.announcement and I recognise the funds. There is a lot going on

:01:32. > :01:36.already but it does cost money to modernise and make improvements.

:01:37. > :01:40.While I would not wish we were in the situation where we have such an

:01:41. > :01:45.enormous debt on this country, but in a strange way the drive to create

:01:46. > :01:49.efficiencies, will alternate, when our economy is back on an even keel

:01:50. > :01:55.and the money is flowing in again, we will have an enormously efficient

:01:56. > :01:58.police force in the future, and old practices which have been stuck in

:01:59. > :02:04.their way for many years will have been ironed out.

:02:05. > :02:08.I'm grateful to the honourable lady for giving way. On that point, would

:02:09. > :02:11.she agree part of that innovation and making our police forces more

:02:12. > :02:18.efficient has been the introduction of police commissioners? I wish to

:02:19. > :02:20.come onto that later because I think the innovation of police

:02:21. > :02:26.commissioners has been an enormous achievement of the last Parliament.

:02:27. > :02:35.My police and crime commission has been enormously visible, much more

:02:36. > :02:41.visible than the old ones who people did not realise existed -- police

:02:42. > :02:47.and crime commission. Essex police do remain keen to see a review of

:02:48. > :02:51.the funding formula. The changes to the formula which were previously

:02:52. > :02:55.imposed on last year would see funding to the police increased by

:02:56. > :03:00.10 million, so we are hopeful that a review later this year will increase

:03:01. > :03:07.the amount of central funding for Essex. Essex police is an area with

:03:08. > :03:13.historically low policing precepts. They have been very proud and say

:03:14. > :03:17.they have been a lean and efficient force for a long time. I recently

:03:18. > :03:24.surveyed by residents asking them if they would be prepared to pay extra

:03:25. > :03:27.if it meant police officers -- extra police officers and visibility. The

:03:28. > :03:34.result was overwhelmingly positive. However, because of the rules around

:03:35. > :03:38.how they would be able to put across their case in a referendum and that

:03:39. > :03:42.a referendum would be triggered by a rise of 2% or higher, there was a

:03:43. > :03:52.real concern in Essex with such a low precepts, that we would be only

:03:53. > :03:56.be able to go to 1.99%, thereby a disadvantage for the lower cost

:03:57. > :04:00.forces then the more expensive ones. I'm grateful that this point was

:04:01. > :04:05.listened to by the Chancellor and the Home Office and the governor is

:04:06. > :04:07.looking at sex ability for Police and Crime Commissioners in the

:04:08. > :04:15.lowest precepts for raising their precept. This has made it possible

:04:16. > :04:22.in Essex to raise the base budget for Essex police by 3.8 million to

:04:23. > :04:30.two point 266 million for this year. I think it is right that forces with

:04:31. > :04:34.the lowest precept raise their precept locally rather than just

:04:35. > :04:38.call on central government and national resources to get other

:04:39. > :04:44.members of the public, who are maybe already paying a higher price, to

:04:45. > :04:47.fund it through a greater grant allocation. I think it is understood

:04:48. > :04:54.by local residents. The current budget includes increased investment

:04:55. > :04:59.in specialist police officers and police staff to tackle child sexual

:05:00. > :05:04.exploitation, child abuse, serious sexual offences and domestic abuse.

:05:05. > :05:08.There will also be increased investor three capacity to tackle

:05:09. > :05:12.these horrible crimes and increased support and safeguarding for

:05:13. > :05:16.victims. These are the hidden harm is that we did not use to talk about

:05:17. > :05:21.or recognising the same way. It has been said a way that some of the

:05:22. > :05:26.figures for domestic abuse and other hidden harms and child abuse have

:05:27. > :05:31.been rising and have contributed to the rising of violent crime in some

:05:32. > :05:36.cases. I would maintain that these are not arise in these crimes, it is

:05:37. > :05:40.the confidence of people coming forward to report them, knowing they

:05:41. > :05:44.will be dealt with sympathetically and a different approach the police

:05:45. > :05:51.have been taking and how to deal with these issues. My honourable

:05:52. > :05:54.friend said about the cameras and other changes in legislation which

:05:55. > :05:59.have been brought in. Within the sick list in budget, there will also

:06:00. > :06:06.be greater support and investment in the training needed to equip

:06:07. > :06:12.officers to investigate Internet and cyber crime which are affecting

:06:13. > :06:15.businesses across the country. While I welcome very much the Autumn

:06:16. > :06:20.Statement and this funding review which will enable Essex police to

:06:21. > :06:24.keep more of the PCSOs than they planned, and the innovations they

:06:25. > :06:29.are able to bring in, I would just like to end and say how lucky we

:06:30. > :06:35.have been in Essex to be served by such a fantastic police and crime

:06:36. > :06:47.commission. He is the best police and crime commission in the country.

:06:48. > :06:57.He has served as an inaugural Police and Crime Commissioner. He is far

:06:58. > :07:01.from being a faceless person, his name is incredibly well-known. I

:07:02. > :07:08.have only been able to accept his resignation on the basis that we

:07:09. > :07:12.have the highly able Roger Hurst who will be standing as the candidate

:07:13. > :07:19.for the Conservative Party. I'm sorry, you will have to sit down for

:07:20. > :07:33.a second. I allowed you to have a roared spit at the beginning --

:07:34. > :07:37.abroad split at the beginning but I think we are in danger of getting

:07:38. > :07:44.into electioneering and campaigning. I am sorry. I'm pleased that the

:07:45. > :07:49.police spending has been protected and I very much welcome this motion

:07:50. > :07:57.today. David Hanson. Thank you, Mr Deputy

:07:58. > :08:00.Speaker, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the

:08:01. > :08:03.debate. Can I'll so welcomed the Sergeant at Arms. We served in the

:08:04. > :08:08.Ministry of Justice many years ago and I welcome his present today. The

:08:09. > :08:13.main debate today is about the police grant and it was an issue

:08:14. > :08:18.that the police minister himself did skirt around. He talked about a

:08:19. > :08:23.range of issues about rationalisation, to do with how we

:08:24. > :08:26.can get better efficiency in our police services, but he avoided the

:08:27. > :08:30.question about the level of police funding that the Government are

:08:31. > :08:35.committed to for the next few years. But let me not start on a negative

:08:36. > :08:41.note, let me start on a positive note. I share with him, and for the

:08:42. > :08:45.member for Castle Point, my admiration for the work of the

:08:46. > :08:48.police and the professionalism of the police service, they do a

:08:49. > :08:54.marvellous job, and we should never forget, I know my honourable friend

:08:55. > :08:59.from Wirral West will notice that every day the police put their lives

:09:00. > :09:02.on the line every day they walk out. Had the recent loss of an officer in

:09:03. > :09:08.Merseyside, and anyone who has been like I have, and the Minister for

:09:09. > :09:11.Erdington has been to the police Memorial Day, will know that the

:09:12. > :09:17.police did a great job and do put their lives on the line every day.

:09:18. > :09:19.The debate today is about the level of financial support to the police

:09:20. > :09:25.service across England and Wales. It is quite clear that that level of

:09:26. > :09:31.support is not sufficient to meet the needs of the police service in

:09:32. > :09:40.the next few years. Nobody will deny that crime has fallen in certain key

:09:41. > :09:44.areas, and no one will do my -- deny that police are trying to reduce

:09:45. > :09:47.those levels in key areas, but I think this debate has missed one of

:09:48. > :09:51.the key points in the question of police, but that losing is not just

:09:52. > :09:57.about crime, it is not about the level of crime and the level of how

:09:58. > :10:01.it can fall or otherwise. The member for Carlisle put his finger very

:10:02. > :10:05.much on it in relation to the difficult circumstances he has had

:10:06. > :10:16.recently, in Cumbria with flooding. The police are the first port of

:10:17. > :10:22.call on public order offence. -- events. On road accidents, on deaths

:10:23. > :10:27.in our community and houses, the police are the first port of call.

:10:28. > :10:30.On public order offence such as football matches or other things

:10:31. > :10:39.such as the parades we have talked about, the police are the first port

:10:40. > :10:43.of call. And because, not always, at weekends the social services and

:10:44. > :10:44.health service are not operational, the police are the first port of

:10:45. > :10:54.call 24 hours a day. The important point that my

:10:55. > :11:00.honourable friend made, the police server reassurance. There are bad

:11:01. > :11:06.visibility, evidence collecting. Not just about solving crime. My worry,

:11:07. > :11:12.Mr Deputy Speaker, the level of settlement we have today will put

:11:13. > :11:18.that level of service at risk. Nobody can deny the service is under

:11:19. > :11:25.pressure. I happen to live in a relatively low crime area in Wales.

:11:26. > :11:29.The police do a great job. I met with the Chief inspector last week,

:11:30. > :11:34.they are doing a great job, crime is relatively low. The budget they are

:11:35. > :11:38.facing is putting complete pressure on the service. Important we examine

:11:39. > :11:44.that, in terms of what the Minister has said, rather than duck around

:11:45. > :11:49.the issues, as he did today. Clearly this government has a small state

:11:50. > :11:53.Conservative view of the world, we have seen that in local government,

:11:54. > :11:59.radically changed by the settlements this week. Does he agree with me

:12:00. > :12:04.that what the average member of the public wants, is the reassurance and

:12:05. > :12:09.police in their communities. What has been proposed in this small

:12:10. > :12:14.state Conservative view of the world is not what voters want? Certainly

:12:15. > :12:19.the constituents of North Wales, and I'm sure the same is true in Durham,

:12:20. > :12:25.they want to see others of all police force engaging with them

:12:26. > :12:29.locally, working locally, providing reassurance, as well as solving and

:12:30. > :12:34.preventing crime. It is extremely important, which the Minister has

:12:35. > :12:40.missed, in relation to the focus on crime fully in certain areas. The

:12:41. > :12:45.question is, the police service is much more than solving crime. I

:12:46. > :12:48.thank my honourable friend for giving way committee is making some

:12:49. > :12:54.very effective point. I have said before in this debate, the issues of

:12:55. > :12:57.gun crime we have in greater Manchester, that is not going to be

:12:58. > :13:06.solved in anyway apart from neighbourhood policing. Sir Peter

:13:07. > :13:11.far a said before he left his post, we need relationship building so

:13:12. > :13:14.people are confident coming forward and giving information to the

:13:15. > :13:32.police, without which they cannot solve the crime -- Peter Fahey. What

:13:33. > :13:37.she's indicating is it is not just about high-level policing, it is

:13:38. > :13:40.about community intelligence, reassuring, and having people know

:13:41. > :13:48.that immunity is, working at a local level. The Minister made very plain,

:13:49. > :13:51.nobody denies we can make the service more efficient, sharing

:13:52. > :13:56.buildings. Absolutely right, we should be doing that. He knows about

:13:57. > :14:00.the contracts, the vehicle contracts, we should be doing that

:14:01. > :14:05.to save money. We should be looking at reforming those measures. The

:14:06. > :14:07.bottom line is they are not compensating for a long-term

:14:08. > :14:15.reduction in the amount of central government grants for local police

:14:16. > :14:18.forces. My own police force in North Wales has made efficiency savings of

:14:19. > :14:23.?19.65 million over the last four years. That is not compensated for

:14:24. > :14:33.the loss of grants they have received. The central point I wish

:14:34. > :14:38.to put the Minister to, the central government grant is being

:14:39. > :14:43.compensated for five rises in the preset in the local level. We have

:14:44. > :14:52.seen a grand reduction of 18% over a four period. We have seen a 14.5%

:14:53. > :14:59.rise in the preset. My constituents are playing more -- paying more in

:15:00. > :15:05.local taxes while they are losing more services. The poorest areas

:15:06. > :15:10.don't have the council tax base to raise that level of resource, as do

:15:11. > :15:16.the rich areas. A one or to macro percent rise in the constituency

:15:17. > :15:21.area where we stand in Westminster will raise a hell of a lot more than

:15:22. > :15:26.a one or to macro percent rise in a community such as North Wales. When

:15:27. > :15:31.the grant is cut to forces like North Wales, and they raise the

:15:32. > :15:37.local precept, my constituents are paying more locally for a service

:15:38. > :15:39.which should be provided as part of the National Service they richer

:15:40. > :15:44.areas contribute to crime level reductions in poorer areas. Or

:15:45. > :15:50.indeed in areas with higher levels of crime. Really important the

:15:51. > :15:54.Minister recognises that. Not simply a case of reducing the amount of

:15:55. > :16:01.grant, hoping we can raise the local precept. It is about having a fair

:16:02. > :16:05.settlement, meeting the needs of the poorest amenities, and the areas

:16:06. > :16:12.where there are higher levels of crime. It is important that we do

:16:13. > :16:14.place on record, that the last Labour government did have 18,000

:16:15. > :16:18.more police officers than we currently have. Crime levels have

:16:19. > :16:24.consistently fallen during the Labour government. If we can look

:16:25. > :16:30.again in the next 3-4 years, while the Minister holds the office, is

:16:31. > :16:33.how we respond. Yes, on the efficiency agenda, and the central

:16:34. > :16:39.government grant agenda, he will do a great deal to reduce levels of

:16:40. > :16:44.crime, and help build reassurance. He has mentioned crime, and crime

:16:45. > :16:49.falling. I have to agree with my honourable friend for Birmingham,

:16:50. > :16:56.violent crime has risen by 27% in the last year. Victim outcomes for

:16:57. > :17:00.half of offences during 2014-15 were closed without a single suspect

:17:01. > :17:08.being identified. Hate crime is beginning to rise. Sexual offences

:17:09. > :17:15.are starting to rise. Also reporting sexual offences historically is

:17:16. > :17:21.beginning to rise. Violence against women is rising. I accept car crime

:17:22. > :17:29.is falling, shoplifting is falling, other forms of crime is falling, I'm

:17:30. > :17:33.pleased to see me want to use drive down continued levels of crime. The

:17:34. > :17:39.Minister cannot avoid the fact that the funding settlement he has got, a

:17:40. > :17:43.very big standstill for some authorities, and a massive cuts,

:17:44. > :17:46.particularly for those authorities with the highest levels of crime,

:17:47. > :17:54.the highest level of challenge, and the lowest level of council tax base

:17:55. > :17:59.to draw the resources accordingly. My plea to the minister today is

:18:00. > :18:03.simply to say to him, he sounds a little complacent, that all will be

:18:04. > :18:09.well, because crime has fallen, and forces are managing. I say drive the

:18:10. > :18:14.efficiency forward even further, even maybe look at some of the

:18:15. > :18:18.larger issues at least forces. Some of the voluntary mergers we have

:18:19. > :18:22.tried to encourage in the past. Drive efficiency forward, but do not

:18:23. > :18:27.pass on central government grant cuts to local areas that cannot meet

:18:28. > :18:33.that need, and need to raise money locally. The police service demands

:18:34. > :18:38.more, it is trying to do its best in professional circumstances. This

:18:39. > :18:43.settlement, with the new challenges of increased terrorism, cyber crime,

:18:44. > :18:47.fraud, a range of new crimes coming forward, this settlement will not

:18:48. > :18:54.meet that challenge in the next 4-5 years. Certainly in not the next few

:18:55. > :19:03.years. That is why I grieve my honourable friend in making this

:19:04. > :19:08.review, I hope others will do the same engine with me, and exercise

:19:09. > :19:13.that right. I will now announce the result of the ballot held today for

:19:14. > :19:20.the election of a new chair of the environmental audit committee. 460

:19:21. > :19:29.votes were cast. We have one spoiled ballot paper. The counting went to

:19:30. > :19:34.three stages. 417 active votes were cast in that round, excluding those

:19:35. > :19:40.ballot papers whose preferences have been exhausted. The quotes are to be

:19:41. > :19:48.reached was therefore 209 votes. Mary Creagh was elected chair with

:19:49. > :19:57.258 votes. The other candidate in that round, Gareth Davies, he

:19:58. > :20:02.received 159 votes. Mary Creagh will take up her post immediately. I

:20:03. > :20:07.congratulate the honourable lady on her election. The results of the

:20:08. > :20:12.count under the alternative vote system will be made available as

:20:13. > :20:16.soon as possible in the voting office, and published on the

:20:17. > :20:21.Internet for public viewing. Notwithstanding some of the

:20:22. > :20:25.courtesies which have developed in these matters in recent times, given

:20:26. > :20:29.we are in the middle of a debate, and people are waiting to speak, I

:20:30. > :20:36.would be most grateful if members could leave the congratulations and

:20:37. > :20:42.commiserations to be conducted outside of the chamber. Once again I

:20:43. > :20:45.warmly congratulate the honourable lady, and thank the other candidates

:20:46. > :20:53.for taking part in that important election. Thank you Mr Speaker. May

:20:54. > :20:59.I congratulate briefly the honourable lady on her election to

:21:00. > :21:04.the chair of the environmental audit select committee. None of us will

:21:05. > :21:08.miss the scene Army of paper to which we have been subjected in the

:21:09. > :21:15.past few days. We will all miss the poetry of the honourable member for

:21:16. > :21:20.Brent North. It may not have been from Palgrave 's' Golden Treasury,

:21:21. > :21:25.but it was certainly entertaining. I'm grateful to be called to speak

:21:26. > :21:30.in this important debate on the police crime. Certainly pleased to

:21:31. > :21:34.follow the honourable member for Devon, a former police Minister,

:21:35. > :21:41.experienced in these matters, although I do not always agree with

:21:42. > :21:45.everything he has to say. I'm certainly not always right, you may

:21:46. > :21:51.be surprised to hear, because when the prospect of police and crime

:21:52. > :21:55.commissioners was first mooted, I have to admit I was sceptical. I am

:21:56. > :22:01.a Conservative, like all Conservatives we are wary of change.

:22:02. > :22:06.I was not sure whether we should employ this radical procedure of

:22:07. > :22:11.policing crime commissioners. I'm always pleased to remind myself to

:22:12. > :22:16.remind myself of the great Marquess of Salisbury, when officials and

:22:17. > :22:21.ministers would visit him at Hatfield house, to encourage him to

:22:22. > :22:29.do this or say that, he would sit in his chair, press his fingers to his

:22:30. > :22:33.chin, and say after a moment's thought, it it would be better not.

:22:34. > :22:41.I think governments of all stripes with where that's well when

:22:42. > :22:47.considering officials requests. The Home Secretary was right on the

:22:48. > :22:50.question of policing crime commissioners, to say it is better

:22:51. > :22:55.we do this. Police and crime commissioners have brought about

:22:56. > :23:00.transformative change to our police forces around the country. And to

:23:01. > :23:04.the way the police spend their money, not least in my own county of

:23:05. > :23:11.Staffordshire. Matthew Ellis has done a tremendous job in bringing in

:23:12. > :23:15.new Czech knowledge of, hand-held tablets, which have reduced the

:23:16. > :23:21.amount of time police officers have two working their stations, putting

:23:22. > :23:25.them out onto the beach. At a fraction of a cast, it has

:23:26. > :23:31.effectively created 100 new police officers in Staffordshire. As a

:23:32. > :23:37.result of his reforms, we have not seen any increase in the precept

:23:38. > :23:40.over the last four years. He can balance the budget over the next

:23:41. > :23:46.four years without an increase to the precept. Other honourable

:23:47. > :23:57.members have mentioned body cameras, we call them for the cameras in

:23:58. > :24:01.Staffordshire. -- Bobby cameras. We have led the way in that innovation,

:24:02. > :24:07.not only making it easier for police to prosecute crimes, it makes for

:24:08. > :24:11.challenging for people to make allegations against the police. If

:24:12. > :24:15.they are wearing cameras and are able to film there in behaviour,

:24:16. > :24:22.angry, often young people are far less likely to make claims about the

:24:23. > :24:26.police which are untrue. Also in Staffordshire, Mr Deputy Speaker, we

:24:27. > :24:34.have led the way in introducing a cadet force. There are now 240 cadet

:24:35. > :24:40.officers, between the ages of 14 and 17. Working in the police, working

:24:41. > :24:45.with the police, to build their skills, and work out whether they

:24:46. > :24:51.want to have a career in the police service. My point, Mr Deputy

:24:52. > :24:56.Speaker, if money is spent effectively, it if it is spent

:24:57. > :25:03.considerately, then we can have better policing, we can have a

:25:04. > :25:07.community which feels safer, we can have a police force with the tools

:25:08. > :25:14.it needs to do the job. I will give way to the honourable gentleman. I'm

:25:15. > :25:22.interested in what the honourable gentleman is saying. Central grants

:25:23. > :25:27.to counties like Durham, it is far more important than the precept,

:25:28. > :25:33.even a large increase in the precept does not generate much cash because

:25:34. > :25:37.of the number of band Eight properties we have in County Durham.

:25:38. > :25:42.Does that mean we have not got a level playing field across the UK?

:25:43. > :25:50.The precept is not a way of generating extra cash in places that

:25:51. > :25:55.do not have large numbers of band Eight properties?

:25:56. > :26:07.I think he may be thinking Staffordshire is a green and leafy

:26:08. > :26:10.county. Staffordshire has stoked in it, areas of deprivation in

:26:11. > :27:05.Tamworth, Burton. That county, led by Matthew

:27:06. > :27:07.Alice, has made a saving of ?126 million, which is invested in

:27:08. > :27:12.technology, which makes policing better in Staffordshire. And I dare

:27:13. > :27:18.say banning County Durham. My point remains. The House has lots of time.

:27:19. > :27:22.No I am grateful for your guidance but I wouldn't wish to impose upon

:27:23. > :27:26.the time of my colleagues on both sides and I'm sure the honourable

:27:27. > :27:29.gentleman can make his own speech in his own good time. In Staffordshire

:27:30. > :27:32.we have a police force which works closely with its community. We have

:27:33. > :27:34.cut costs, but police on the streets, introduced innovation and

:27:35. > :27:36.our public is I commend a la police force and our police and crime

:27:37. > :27:39.commission to other police forces around the country. I was wrong to

:27:40. > :27:42.say no to police and crime position is commissioners. It will deliver

:27:43. > :27:43.more money to the police and when it does Staffordshire will lead the

:27:44. > :27:51.way. I would like to begin by thanking my

:27:52. > :27:57.right honourable friend for his remarks about PC Dave Phillips, who

:27:58. > :28:02.we lost on the Wirral last year. He died in the line of duty, doing the

:28:03. > :28:06.job he did so well to protect the people of Wirral. He was a very

:28:07. > :28:11.valued and dedicated officer and his loss is keenly felt. The

:28:12. > :28:16.Chancellor's 11th hour U-turn on funding of policing in November was

:28:17. > :28:22.welcome. The cuts to the Police and Crime Commissioner were of the order

:28:23. > :28:27.of between 62- ?100 million by 2019-20 and would have stretched the

:28:28. > :28:30.capacity of the police force on Merseyside to do its job of keeping

:28:31. > :28:35.us safe to near breaking point. Cuts on that scale would have meant the

:28:36. > :28:39.loss of all police and community support officers, the mounted police

:28:40. > :28:42.section as well as reduce resources for tackling serious and organised

:28:43. > :28:46.crime, sexual offences and hate crime. People Merseyside were very

:28:47. > :28:54.concerned about the impact this would have had an our communities.

:28:55. > :28:57.However, the relief was acknowledged by the spending reductions that our

:28:58. > :29:05.police force was already being. Make. The force has made savings of

:29:06. > :29:10.?77 million, resulting in an overall budget reduction of 20%. Over that

:29:11. > :29:19.period, the number of police officers have fallen by 20%. Police

:29:20. > :29:27.staff by 24%. PCS owes by 25%. The PCS ons are the eyes and ears of

:29:28. > :29:32.policing. On Merseyside, in Wirral in particular and their shift at

:29:33. > :29:37.10pm, before the pubs have close, as a result of the changing shift

:29:38. > :29:41.allowance in 2013. There is not enough money to pay them to be on

:29:42. > :29:47.duty at one of the times and they are most needed. So the relief we

:29:48. > :29:50.Merseyside felt at the news on the Chancellor's U-turn was tempered by

:29:51. > :29:55.what then followed. Since November it has also become clear that the

:29:56. > :29:59.Chancellor's pledge to safeguard our police funding was not the full 180

:30:00. > :30:03.degrees U-turn we hoped but only partial. The devil is very much in

:30:04. > :30:06.the detail. The pledge the Chancellor made to protect the

:30:07. > :30:11.police depends on an increase in the preceptor compensate the reduction

:30:12. > :30:15.in government grants. Merseyside's general grant was reduced by ?1.3

:30:16. > :30:20.million. The Home Secretary has made it clear she expects it will be

:30:21. > :30:24.offset by increasing the precept to the maximum available and the Police

:30:25. > :30:31.and Crime Commissioner has consulted the public and police and crime

:30:32. > :30:37.panel. The proposal has got strong support in both cases. However, the

:30:38. > :30:42.2016-17 Merseyside Police faces a Budget deficit of 5.4 million for

:30:43. > :30:48.that period. In order to address this, the deficit it faces and

:30:49. > :30:52.balance the budget, the PCC is proposing to utilise 2.1 million of

:30:53. > :31:01.reserves and requests are forced to make further savings of 3.3 million

:31:02. > :31:05.in 2016-17. Assuming that the PCC's 04 all level of funding stays at

:31:06. > :31:13.this level it is anticipated further savings of 22 million will be

:31:14. > :31:16.required by 2017-18 and 2020-21. While the final settlement will mean

:31:17. > :31:20.the force will have to make less savings than expected, it still

:31:21. > :31:23.represents a real challenge, and those savings will have to be made

:31:24. > :31:29.against a background of increasing demand on the police on Merseyside.

:31:30. > :31:32.The increase in some kinds of crime, including serious offences

:31:33. > :31:36.Merseyside, has been significantly higher than the national average and

:31:37. > :31:40.I would urge the Minister to look at the detail. The overall increase in

:31:41. > :31:47.crime Merseyside between September 20 14-15 with 6.4%. That is just in

:31:48. > :31:50.the course of one year. That was in line with the national averages for

:31:51. > :31:55.England and Wales. However, when we look at other offences the picture

:31:56. > :31:59.is not quite so favourable for Merseyside. Vehicle theft offences

:32:00. > :32:05.saw an increase in 8.9%, while in England and Wales it was 0.1%.

:32:06. > :32:11.Merseyside domestic burglary increased by 1.2%. In England and

:32:12. > :32:18.Wales it deep creased by 5.1 seven. And there was a 48.7% increase in

:32:19. > :32:23.offences involving violence against the person in Merseyside, as opposed

:32:24. > :32:28.to nearly half that, 26.8% in England and Wales. These are very

:32:29. > :32:33.worrying figures. Violent offences involving injury increased 36.8%,

:32:34. > :32:37.compared to 15% in England and Wells. The number of violent

:32:38. > :32:43.offences without injury let up by 60.7 cents, compared to 37% in

:32:44. > :32:48.England and Wales. These figures are matter of real concern. They reflect

:32:49. > :32:53.the very serious need there is not properly funded policing. Sexual

:32:54. > :32:59.offences also increased Merseyside. As well as improvements in recording

:33:00. > :33:02.crime, and this might reflect a greater willingness of victims to

:33:03. > :33:07.come forward, while fat willingness has to be welcomed, it also means

:33:08. > :33:11.there needs to be the resources available to pursue cases and deal

:33:12. > :33:15.with victims in a sensitive way. If that doesn't happen, victims won't

:33:16. > :33:22.continue to come forward in greater numbers. People Merseyside must have

:33:23. > :33:25.we dress in law when they are subjected to violence. The first

:33:26. > :33:28.duty of the state is to protect the public. The Chancellor must ensure

:33:29. > :33:34.the police have the resources to do so. Wirral West is a lovely part of

:33:35. > :33:38.the world, with some areas of real prosperity, but it also has areas of

:33:39. > :33:40.real deprivation. There are some areas of my constituency where

:33:41. > :33:44.people are frightened to go to the shops in the middle of the day due

:33:45. > :33:49.to anti-social behaviour. This is wholly unacceptable. I will give

:33:50. > :33:54.way. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. She is making a very

:33:55. > :34:00.strong case and giving an articulation of the impact these

:34:01. > :34:04.cuts are having on communities. We see every day the impact it does

:34:05. > :34:11.have on those people. Which you also agree with me, the people ask we do

:34:12. > :34:14.today would -- to do this very difficult job, are suffering as a

:34:15. > :34:19.result of these cuts as well as Marco Police Federation towards a

:34:20. > :34:22.last end of last year said three quarters of police officers do not

:34:23. > :34:26.feel valued in the service and are suffering from low morale. That is a

:34:27. > :34:31.cause for concern as well. I thank my honourable friend for his

:34:32. > :34:35.remarks. I think my honourable friend's remarks are indeed

:34:36. > :34:38.absolutely right. It is so important we value police officers and all the

:34:39. > :34:44.police staff to do a very difficult job. All of my constituents deserve

:34:45. > :34:50.to be able to go about their daily lives without fear or anxiety. All

:34:51. > :34:54.of them deserve a police service that is funded at a level that

:34:55. > :34:59.enables it to do its job safely and efficiently.

:35:00. > :35:04.I would like to pay tribute to the work done by all of Merseyside

:35:05. > :35:08.Police staff, including PCSOs, police officers, the so-called back

:35:09. > :35:14.office staff, who have been somewhat maligned by certain members on the

:35:15. > :35:16.opposite benches, who fronts staff rely in perilous situation and

:35:17. > :35:20.without whom the force could not operate. I would also like to pay

:35:21. > :35:23.tribute to the Police and Crime Commissioner, who does such a good

:35:24. > :35:27.job. The Chancellor made his U-turn on extreme cuts the night before the

:35:28. > :35:31.spending review. This suggests an extraordinary lack of planning and

:35:32. > :35:33.calls into question the quality of decision-making made at the

:35:34. > :35:37.Treasury. The police force on Merseyside must be funded on a level

:35:38. > :35:41.that allows it to prevent crime wherever possible and pursue those

:35:42. > :35:46.who commit it effectively. It has to meet the rising demand that come

:35:47. > :35:51.from the level of crime. This is fundamental if we are to live in a

:35:52. > :35:54.civilised, stable and safe society. I urge the Minister to look

:35:55. > :35:57.carefully at policing need Merseyside and fight for a fair

:35:58. > :36:04.police funding settlement. Stephen Hammond. Thank you. It is a great

:36:05. > :36:08.pleasure to speak in this debate. I would like to use my short time to

:36:09. > :36:11.address some of the issues that affect particularly London. Let me

:36:12. > :36:17.start, it is a pleasure to follow the honourable lady. Don't think

:36:18. > :36:22.anyone on this side maligns anyone in the police start. Let me put on

:36:23. > :36:24.record my tribute to the Metropolitan Police and particular

:36:25. > :36:28.in my own borough, which have had some interesting issues to deal

:36:29. > :36:36.within the last month, which I will refer to later. Lars and number of

:36:37. > :36:39.London members had dinner with the Metropolitan Police Commissioner who

:36:40. > :36:50.was going through the modelling my right honourable friend mentioned

:36:51. > :36:55.beforehand. The key thing after that was that there was a number of

:36:56. > :37:01.people, particularly from London. The right Honourable member of

:37:02. > :37:05.Uxbridge and for Richmond Park, who led some delegations to meet the

:37:06. > :37:11.Home Secretary to discuss. From a London point of view, can I say to

:37:12. > :37:15.the police minister, we delighted you listened and the Chancellor and

:37:16. > :37:21.the Home Secretary. It makes a huge difference. This extra money will

:37:22. > :37:25.allow London to deal with the reforms you spoke about, the

:37:26. > :37:27.policing of our national city, but the policing of our local

:37:28. > :37:32.constituency as well. The key point has been that there have been

:37:33. > :37:38.reforms. An amber of these reforms have actually -- a number have

:37:39. > :37:48.rendered the police force more effective. One of the problems with

:37:49. > :37:50.the previous model was people got taken off neighbourhood policing,

:37:51. > :37:57.particularly in London. There were some real issues with it at various

:37:58. > :38:02.times. I have no doubt, so it was a great innovation, it worked, it has

:38:03. > :38:06.worked. But even a reduced number, having those dedicated people there

:38:07. > :38:11.the whole time is having a similar effect. We saw that recently with

:38:12. > :38:17.the help the police got him bringing forward information in solving a

:38:18. > :38:21.very unfortunate murder in my constituency. But of course, what

:38:22. > :38:29.the money does in London is a lot more than just the local, it has to

:38:30. > :38:32.do the National as well. Therefore can I also thank the Home Secretary

:38:33. > :38:37.and the Chancellor for listening to some of the issues about the

:38:38. > :38:45.National Crime Agency. The potential that investment has is

:38:46. > :38:48.to look turn it into a leading law enforcement agency. If you look at

:38:49. > :38:52.one of the debates we have had in this chamber over the last two years

:38:53. > :38:58.over cybercrime, and what that impact has in our national city, at

:38:59. > :39:02.one level it will affect all of us. The Internet and the ability to

:39:03. > :39:07.break into the Internet of things and create problems for people at a

:39:08. > :39:10.personal level is high, but London is the key financial centre of

:39:11. > :39:16.Europe. It is the global financial centre of the world. Cybercrime and

:39:17. > :39:21.the alertness to cybercrime and giving the resources to the police.

:39:22. > :39:24.The able to fight cybercrime, is absolutely key. Therefore, the

:39:25. > :39:29.investment in the National Crime Agency will have a big impact in

:39:30. > :39:33.London and London's reputation and also a national impact. The same

:39:34. > :39:37.applies to counterterrorism. I have just seen at a local level, again,

:39:38. > :39:41.the money that has been invested will have a huge impact both locally

:39:42. > :39:47.and nationally. The policing minister will be aware there were a

:39:48. > :39:55.number of incredibly callous bomb hoaxs at four my local schools two

:39:56. > :40:00.weeks ago. The money secured for the National Crime Agency and

:40:01. > :40:03.counterterrorism not only can be invested in the capability of

:40:04. > :40:06.ensuring that our extra police on the streets, but to deal with and

:40:07. > :40:12.build up the intelligence to defeat some of these callous bomb hoax. The

:40:13. > :40:15.local commander shared with me a lot of information I wouldn't want to

:40:16. > :40:22.bring out today, about the work they have done. That can only happen if

:40:23. > :40:27.we put the money into some of these agencies, as well. What this police

:40:28. > :40:31.grant does is actually protect those agencies, protecting people on the

:40:32. > :40:37.streets, day after day, minute after minute. All of that is absolutely

:40:38. > :40:41.crucial in the city, the great City of London, because we face, as many

:40:42. > :40:46.other cities do around the world and in this country, but I suggest to

:40:47. > :40:52.you a unique and very severe threat from terrorism and the additional

:40:53. > :40:57.pressures, policing pressures on London that other places don't get

:40:58. > :41:01.as well. And therefore particularly welcome for the Metropolitan Police

:41:02. > :41:05.through the London authority as the international city funding worth 174

:41:06. > :41:06.million, going to the Metropolitan Police and the City of London

:41:07. > :41:17.Police. Isolate the police Minister, we are

:41:18. > :41:27.pleased you have listened. -- I say to the Police Minister. Because what

:41:28. > :41:34.we do across London has an impact nationally and internationally. Like

:41:35. > :41:39.the former shadow police Minister, I will be casting my vote tonight,

:41:40. > :41:46.because of what I think the police need. I want to pay tribute to this

:41:47. > :41:53.government, and my colleagues, I hope, will join us in recognising

:41:54. > :41:59.what a good settlement it is, and support the government a night. I

:42:00. > :42:04.want to speak briefly about Bedfordshire. It has been seriously

:42:05. > :42:21.underfunded over a prolonged period, and has serious problems. I was

:42:22. > :42:24.pleased to visit the Police Minister, and he had a paper from

:42:25. > :42:32.the Chief Constable and the police crime Commissioner, on the desperate

:42:33. > :42:36.state in Bedfordshire. I asked the business question last week,

:42:37. > :42:40.suggesting the funding formula was fundamentally flawed, broken is the

:42:41. > :42:49.term I used, and I hope the funding formula will be very soon rapidly

:42:50. > :42:54.amended. So it provides fair funding for Bedfordshire and other

:42:55. > :42:59.authorities across the country. We have a particular problem with knife

:43:00. > :43:05.crime. Com trouble with Merseyside, greater Manchester and other areas,

:43:06. > :43:10.yet we are substantially less funding for such crime. We have a

:43:11. > :43:15.problem with gun crime, Kabul with these large urban areas, and we

:43:16. > :43:19.cannot cope because we have a serious underfunding. Our police

:43:20. > :43:23.force is a wonderful job with the resources they have, but those

:43:24. > :43:32.resources are simply not good enough. If you compare Bedfordshire

:43:33. > :43:38.with some other rural areas, Wales for example, which is, in terms of

:43:39. > :43:43.police resources, and officers per head of population, they are

:43:44. > :43:48.multiple of that available in Bedfordshire. And yet they have very

:43:49. > :43:54.full crime. There is something fundamentally wrong with the formula

:43:55. > :43:57.that can give such generous police funding, relatively generous, to

:43:58. > :44:01.rural areas where there is very little crime, and a place like

:44:02. > :44:06.Bedfordshire where we have some fairly serious problems with crime

:44:07. > :44:12.that we do our best to deal with, but are struggling. We had an

:44:13. > :44:16.excellent Chief Constable and excellent police crime Commissioner,

:44:17. > :44:21.and they are doing their best. Providing me with detailed arguments

:44:22. > :44:27.and statistics. They make the point over and over again, we need a

:44:28. > :44:32.fairer funding formula, which will bring Bedfordshire into line with

:44:33. > :44:35.other areas. We have an airport which needs extra resources to

:44:36. > :44:43.police, we have crime which I have already mentioned, we have political

:44:44. > :44:49.extremism on both sides of the divide, if I can call it that. Yet

:44:50. > :44:53.again requiring extra police. The police do the very best job they

:44:54. > :44:56.possibly can with the resources they have, but we do not have enough

:44:57. > :45:01.resources to do the job we need to do. I would urge the police

:45:02. > :45:05.Minister, once again to look seriously at the funding formula.

:45:06. > :45:09.Not just an extra bit of cash to help out in the short-term, but

:45:10. > :45:14.actually to fundamentally look at how the funding formula can be

:45:15. > :45:20.revised, so it treats Bedfordshire and every other area fairly with

:45:21. > :45:25.equity to funding. Overall, we still need more funding for the police in

:45:26. > :45:28.general. Even with the lower level of funding we have across the

:45:29. > :45:36.country, it should still be allocated fairly, and Bedfordshire

:45:37. > :45:41.should get its fair amount. I leave it there, Mr Deputy Speaker, I

:45:42. > :45:51.apologise to honourable members and yourself, I am having to go to the

:45:52. > :45:52.European committee, and I apologise if I leave fairly quickly after my

:45:53. > :46:04.speech. Mr Deputy Speaker, the police grant

:46:05. > :46:08.report before us today is good news for police forces across the

:46:09. > :46:11.country, and for the force that covers my constituency, despite the

:46:12. > :46:16.scaremongering we have seen in the press. I strongly welcomed the

:46:17. > :46:20.significant increase in financial resources across England and Wales,

:46:21. > :46:24.and no policing crime Commissioner will face a reduction in cash

:46:25. > :46:30.funding over the next financial year. Credit must go to the Home

:46:31. > :46:40.Secretary and the Policing Minister. I thank you for protecting

:46:41. > :46:45.constituents in my area. The country has to do with the mess left behind

:46:46. > :46:48.by the party opposite, this report confirms we're through the worst of

:46:49. > :46:53.that and under responsible government we can once again offer

:46:54. > :46:58.our police the support they need. Crime is fallen by more than a

:46:59. > :47:01.quarter under this governor. We have seen falls in crime across

:47:02. > :47:10.Lancashire and my own constituency of Pendle. I would just cancelled

:47:11. > :47:14.the honourable member talking about across the country. He's saying

:47:15. > :47:19.things which are not true for greater Manchester. We have seen a

:47:20. > :47:27.40% increase in recorded crime, 46% increase in violent crime, facing a

:47:28. > :47:31.5p of cuts. Could you not talk about across the country, when he's not

:47:32. > :47:36.talking about greater Manchester? She's talking about reported crime,

:47:37. > :47:44.not if you look at the British crime survey, crime has fallen across this

:47:45. > :47:46.country. It is or was being supported as a more accurate

:47:47. > :47:50.reflection of crime rates across the country. I'm going to talk about

:47:51. > :47:55.different rates of crime that have increased. If the honourable lady

:47:56. > :48:00.allows me, I will make more progress with my speech. Very quick

:48:01. > :48:07.intervention, I'm keen for everyone to speak. It is important we put the

:48:08. > :48:11.record right. In July of this year, cyber crime, online fraud will be

:48:12. > :48:16.included in the crime survey of England and Wales. The early

:48:17. > :48:21.estimate is it will add 6 million crimes, see crime doubling. Will the

:48:22. > :48:27.honourable gentleman reflect on what he has just said, and recognise the

:48:28. > :48:33.truth will be told on crime. It is not falling, it is changing. If he

:48:34. > :48:38.holds his horses, I will get onto cyber crime, certain crime not

:48:39. > :48:42.reflected in the crime figures, and why I think the police grant is a

:48:43. > :48:46.sensible situation for the police, investing in dealing with new forms

:48:47. > :48:52.of crime, which have not had to be dealt with in the past by our police

:48:53. > :48:56.forces. Turning back to my own area, drug gangs. They are real problem