:01:29. > :01:33.Hello and welcome to BBC Parliament live coverage of the House of
:01:34. > :01:36.Commons. At half past three David Cameron will make a statement to MPs
:01:37. > :01:40.on the deal reached with European Union leaders on reforming the terms
:01:41. > :01:46.of the UK's membership of the EU. That agreement pave the way for the
:01:47. > :01:49.out referendum on the 23rd of June. Mr Cameron announced the date on
:01:50. > :01:59.Saturday when he returned from Brussels. The Prime Minister will
:02:00. > :02:08.make the case for the EU UK to Burbank. Such is the justice
:02:09. > :02:11.secretary and the work and pensions Secretary. The Prime Minister
:02:12. > :02:16.statement on the EU will be repeated and debated in the House of Lords as
:02:17. > :02:19.well. Member to join me for a round-up of the days debate about
:02:20. > :02:23.the EU in both houses of parliament at 11 o'clock this evening. We start
:02:24. > :02:45.this question to the home Secretary May.
:02:46. > :02:55.Order! Order! Questions to the Secretary of State for the Home
:02:56. > :02:59.Department. Question one Mr Speaker. Thank you, the investigator and
:03:00. > :03:03.Powers bill has been in close consultation with the industry. The
:03:04. > :03:07.cost of the public for implement the provisions will continue to be
:03:08. > :03:14.refined as we hope more detailed vote come. They can meet the costs
:03:15. > :03:17.themselves. Full cost recovery will reply to operational cost including
:03:18. > :03:23.those associated with new obligations under the bill. Thank
:03:24. > :03:25.you Mr Speaker, the science and technology committee warned that the
:03:26. > :03:35.bill of risk undermining the start we performing tech sector. Will the
:03:36. > :03:40.Secretary of State and sure as that the UK businesses will not be placed
:03:41. > :03:47.at a commercial disadvantage to overseas competitors? I can assure
:03:48. > :03:51.the gentleman that. As I said and my answer to his initial question, we
:03:52. > :03:58.will be ensuring that the full cost recovery replies to operational cost
:03:59. > :04:02.for any companies who have, except for notices issued to them. What is
:04:03. > :04:04.clear is that that is what we have done as the government in the past,
:04:05. > :04:11.that is the privileged governments have done and we will continue its.
:04:12. > :04:15.Was the home secretary look carefully at the recommendations of
:04:16. > :04:20.the joint committee in regards to but recognition of the Internet. We
:04:21. > :04:23.were clear that greater clarity is needed on deafness in order to be
:04:24. > :04:27.able to allow the private sector to fully cost there for proposals. I
:04:28. > :04:32.think the right honourable gentleman, those honourable members
:04:33. > :04:37.and any other place to set on that committee and who did an excellent
:04:38. > :04:42.job in producing their reports, a very well thought through and
:04:43. > :04:51.careful report. We will look very carefully at the issue. We are
:04:52. > :04:57.looking awfully on all committees. We will bring forward a revised bill
:04:58. > :05:02.proposals in due course. On the specific issue of private
:05:03. > :05:06.businesses, could be home secretary outlines what recent discussions she
:05:07. > :05:12.or her ministers have had with the devolved ministrations about that
:05:13. > :05:16.particular aspect? Discussions with devolved ministrations have been
:05:17. > :05:20.going on throughout the preparation of the initial draft bill, and
:05:21. > :05:23.indeed have continued and will continue. Also, but will also
:05:24. > :05:28.continue its discussions between ministers and officials and the
:05:29. > :05:33.companies and private room at private businesses themselves.
:05:34. > :05:38.Question number two Mr Speaker. With the mission was a speaker I will
:05:39. > :05:42.answer questions two and ten on the order paper together. The minimum
:05:43. > :05:46.income threshold of ?18,600 for sponsoring a partner under the
:05:47. > :05:51.family immigration roles, and so is that couples wishing to establish
:05:52. > :05:54.the family life in the UK do not place burdens on the taxpayer and
:05:55. > :06:01.hub motor integration. It is being considered by the courts and upheld
:06:02. > :06:05.by the court of appeals. The Low the welfare of immigrants has said that
:06:06. > :06:13.these rules discriminately affecting women. 25% get less than 18,600
:06:14. > :06:17.compared to 75% of men. This gives young people it is evident as well.
:06:18. > :06:23.What actual the home Secretary take to reduce these on sale rules? I
:06:24. > :06:27.would say that the threshold was set as advice of the migration advisory
:06:28. > :06:32.committee to look very carefully on the levels of income and terms of
:06:33. > :06:41.not being a bargain on the taxpayer. The gross median and Scotland in
:06:42. > :06:43.2014 racks at 21,725 higher than the threshold. This of legal challenge
:06:44. > :06:52.has been raised by the course of Appeal. The threshold was upheld.
:06:53. > :06:56.Thinking you Mr Speaker, the Secretary of State will see a story
:06:57. > :07:01.reported by the BBC this morning where she fled the area and gave
:07:02. > :07:04.birth to her son in the UK. Her husband a Syrian national is unable
:07:05. > :07:09.to join the meeting because they cannot afford the fees of these. Can
:07:10. > :07:13.Secretary of State tell us with his British nationals should go to enter
:07:14. > :07:18.her family life. Her husband home country of Syria? There are various
:07:19. > :07:23.different routes that could be available. We have the family
:07:24. > :07:26.reunion and route that can apply and circumstances. I'm not familiar with
:07:27. > :07:32.all the us is that he highlights. Equally, the government is in
:07:33. > :07:36.respect for uncertainties for the protection of the children. This is
:07:37. > :07:39.considered by the court and upheld. That gave the point made so
:07:40. > :07:44.eloquently by my Honorable friend about not being a burden on the
:07:45. > :07:48.taxpayer. To what extent do we take into account, charges made by other
:07:49. > :07:55.countries, two British nationals hoping to emigrate to those
:07:56. > :07:58.countries? I say, my honourable friend makes a point on different
:07:59. > :08:02.immigration systems and different parts of the world. Obviously we
:08:03. > :08:05.have taken advice on the migration advisory committee looking at cost
:08:06. > :08:10.and look at those pardons to see that someone does not place a burden
:08:11. > :08:18.on the UK taxpayer. But his odyssey for other countries to assess what
:08:19. > :08:22.is appropriate and their own system. The financial threshold family visas
:08:23. > :08:26.is causing particular distress to one of my constituents who cannot
:08:27. > :08:31.work the hours required because she is a carer for her vulnerable child.
:08:32. > :08:36.This means she is living without her husband and the Taliban without his
:08:37. > :08:40.father. Does the Minister acknowledged that he is at risk of
:08:41. > :08:48.creating a generation of children whose only contact with one of their
:08:49. > :08:53.parents will be via Skype? Now, I don't except the point the Honorable
:08:54. > :08:57.Lady makes. These issues of the welfare of the child are absolutely
:08:58. > :09:01.part of the consideration that the takes, this was a matter that was
:09:02. > :09:07.considered by the courts of the pale. And firmly upheld. I would say
:09:08. > :09:12.to the Honorable lady that when this issue of the -- all being said in
:09:13. > :09:15.November 2011, the migration advisory committee gave a lower
:09:16. > :09:20.threshold of 18,600 but equally advise the national could have been
:09:21. > :09:23.set at 25,000 700. The Government reflected in those circumstances and
:09:24. > :09:29.set it to level as it has done. That little has been upheld by the court.
:09:30. > :09:33.The Minister has mentioned the court of appeal but the matter is not
:09:34. > :09:36.entirely set from a legal point of view because this week the Supreme
:09:37. > :09:40.Court will hold the cases of two but is nationals who cannot meet these
:09:41. > :09:45.tough financial rules to allow their not EU spouses to come and live with
:09:46. > :09:51.them. The Honorable member for Hampstead and Coburn has mentioned
:09:52. > :09:54.that according to the children's Commissioner for England there are
:09:55. > :10:00.15,000 British children growing up via Skype. How can the Minister
:10:01. > :10:05.justified the stress and anxiety caused by these children -- to these
:10:06. > :10:10.children for the other flexible and unjust rule. I don't accept the
:10:11. > :10:15.characterisation that the honourable lady has proven to. I does recognise
:10:16. > :10:22.the number that she has proffered. I do say, that it is about good
:10:23. > :10:26.immigration, it is in relation to language in terms of mapping a
:10:27. > :10:29.bargain to the taxpayer but equally promoting integration. We believe
:10:30. > :10:36.the policy is ineffective in doing that. ... Last year the conservative
:10:37. > :10:43.call on the government to change these rules. Melting, the
:10:44. > :10:51.significant contribution made by millions of Brooke Britons living
:10:52. > :10:57.as the Minister of Rome as the opposition, will he at least listen
:10:58. > :11:02.to his own party and get rid of these rules was to scrimmage against
:11:03. > :11:06.hard-working families? I say again to the honourable lady that we do
:11:07. > :11:10.not believe that the rules are discriminatory, and the way that she
:11:11. > :11:13.is a just and characterises, the system is in place to ensure a good
:11:14. > :11:17.integration and is absurd that people are not a burden on the
:11:18. > :11:21.taxpayer. I thought that was something she would recognise as
:11:22. > :11:25.being a positive aspect of the policy to make sure that people can
:11:26. > :11:29.contribute and settle. The rules have been set, and upheld by the
:11:30. > :11:36.court and look at the two of underline those key things. With
:11:37. > :11:43.permission I will answer questions three and 16 on the order paper
:11:44. > :11:51.together. Border force carries out 100% of the tax. They deliver an
:11:52. > :11:59.effective and intelligent responses for a range of security threats.
:12:00. > :12:03.They used equipment and a range of search techniques. I think the home
:12:04. > :12:07.secretary for that answer but last of the birth of eminent fives were
:12:08. > :12:11.found in a container in my constituency, that came just three
:12:12. > :12:17.weeks after 20 immigrants were found of wear. Given that my local border
:12:18. > :12:21.forces are facing cuts, how can the secretary reassure me that these
:12:22. > :12:25.cuts are not damaging the safety and security? The approach that we are
:12:26. > :12:29.taking to these matters comes across in a number of ways. First of all,
:12:30. > :12:33.in relation to water forth, we are looking to edge does this
:12:34. > :12:37.technology, but also to an Benedike Howedes make sure they can operate
:12:38. > :12:42.successfully. It will be a much more intelligent lead approach. We can
:12:43. > :12:46.target what they need to be in accordance with the intelligence,
:12:47. > :12:51.and also this government has enhanced our ability to deal with
:12:52. > :12:56.organised crime. This is an issue that the national crime agency set
:12:57. > :13:01.up by the last Coalition government is taking very seriously and is
:13:02. > :13:09.acting on. Thank you, I have ten electronic passports case and my
:13:10. > :13:13.efficiency at the airport of my department is unable to tell me how
:13:14. > :13:17.many people travelled through. And how often they malfunction and how
:13:18. > :13:24.many were Texans they are. Does the home Secretary agree with me that
:13:25. > :13:29.the warning -- as identified by the office, this is one of them and it
:13:30. > :13:33.should be looked into? What I say is that I think that the increased
:13:34. > :13:39.number of each day for checking passports that we have is a good
:13:40. > :13:48.move. It's and hat security at our border. Thank you Mr Speaker, I have
:13:49. > :13:53.been trying to figure out how many people arrive at UK airports without
:13:54. > :13:56.valid travel documents. I'm very surprised that nobody seems to be
:13:57. > :14:00.able to give me an answer to this. Within minutes be able to give me an
:14:01. > :14:05.answer and if not hesitate to ask them to find out this important
:14:06. > :14:10.matter? I can tell my honourable friend that 18,000 individuals were
:14:11. > :14:13.refused at entry at the border in 2014 equity those who were
:14:14. > :14:16.travelling on an valid documentation. When somebody comes
:14:17. > :14:22.the UK border they are subjected to a range of tax we have offices at
:14:23. > :14:28.the border who trained and are able to detect forged documents and steps
:14:29. > :14:33.are being taken to intercept those individuals who don't have the
:14:34. > :14:39.correct documents of of a bit over at the border. And I congratulate
:14:40. > :14:42.the home Secretary are the words as he sat on the value of EU membership
:14:43. > :14:47.in terms of protecting the safety and security of this country. Can I
:14:48. > :14:52.ask her, even though that is the case and I agree with her could we
:14:53. > :14:57.have more specific focus on the quieter port, the quieter airports
:14:58. > :15:01.were the smuggling gangs know it is quieter? I indicated in my response
:15:02. > :15:06.earlier to one of his honourable friend, that the way border forces
:15:07. > :15:09.of prejudice as in a much intelligent lead basis, so that they
:15:10. > :15:13.can be flexible in relation to the staff that employed in different
:15:14. > :15:21.ports, professing recognising, that we don't eat as a focus on one or 24
:15:22. > :15:30.22 focus on a range of ports. -- focus on one or two ports. We need
:15:31. > :15:34.to rely on strong EU coordinated approach to security including at
:15:35. > :15:37.our borders and our ports. The Secretary of State and I know road
:15:38. > :15:42.that we rely on EU criminal justice and security measures. And those
:15:43. > :15:47.circumstances, I assume that the home office carried out a risk
:15:48. > :15:52.assessment on the impact of UK withdraw and the EU on security at
:15:53. > :15:57.ports. Recommended of the public who have not yet decided how to vote in
:15:58. > :16:02.the referendum access the conclusions? I have dissected say to
:16:03. > :16:08.the honourable gentleman, I'm not sure that his parliamentary language
:16:09. > :16:11.for me to repeat Mr Speaker. He can rest assured that argument there
:16:12. > :16:15.relations of these matters will be fully set out for people over the
:16:16. > :16:19.coming months. One of the arguments I put, he will have no because he
:16:20. > :16:25.was involved in this and a different capacity before he came into this
:16:26. > :16:28.chamber. It was around issues like the operation of various sizes and
:16:29. > :16:31.home affairs meshes is what we set out very clearly as the government
:16:32. > :16:39.by without the benefit was in being part of those measures. Tony Smith
:16:40. > :16:46.the interim head of the UK border for from 20 1213 said that a vote to
:16:47. > :16:52.leave the EU would pose a lot of issues for the border force who is
:16:53. > :16:56.already under huge pressure. In particular he highlighted the fact
:16:57. > :17:01.that the border for staff would have to carry out more attacks on EU
:17:02. > :17:05.citizens. Can the Secretary of State confirm that the border for school
:17:06. > :17:12.and the fact to face more cuts year on year for the foreseeable future?
:17:13. > :17:16.I'm happy to say that anybody who comes to the UK border, anybody
:17:17. > :17:21.receives a stringent checks at the UK border, we are doing that now on
:17:22. > :17:25.a much more intelligent lead basis, in terms of looking at individuals
:17:26. > :17:28.who may be of concern, and yes he is right that we have interactions with
:17:29. > :17:33.other member states and the European Union to the use of things like a
:17:34. > :17:37.system to identify people who are of concern who are coming across the
:17:38. > :17:42.border. Border forth and other operations are not about people, the
:17:43. > :17:45.about goods and bridges are good and illegal goods being brought into the
:17:46. > :17:49.UK. That is where the intelligence led approach can be helpful in
:17:50. > :17:58.identifying when the areas of concern and action being taken
:17:59. > :18:02.appropriate of properly. But commission on what action questions
:18:03. > :18:10.four and 14 on the order paper. Crime commissioners, sorry for and
:18:11. > :18:13.13. Crime commissioners are providing a comfortable position and
:18:14. > :18:18.making a real difference to policing locally. There has been a reduction
:18:19. > :18:38.in crime and more than a quarter sensor and seduction. -- production.
:18:39. > :18:44.There is already good process of scrutiny that is available through
:18:45. > :18:54.the piece and crime panels, for looking at any potential crime that
:18:55. > :19:02.police may have. That process it is enshrined and is being taken. What I
:19:03. > :19:07.do is when any area is looking at the potential for roles, for such as
:19:08. > :19:10.we have in the greater Manchester area in relation to peace and crime
:19:11. > :19:17.commissioner with the productive mayor of that area. There is full
:19:18. > :19:24.consideration of all the aspects of the issue to ensure that going ahead
:19:25. > :19:28.they can give it to do so properly without conflict of interest as
:19:29. > :19:35.ensuring that the best services delivered. Thank you Mr Speaker, my
:19:36. > :19:37.local police force received a positive inspection report from the
:19:38. > :19:43.home inspector. With my right honourable friend join me and please
:19:44. > :19:48.do the work of the constable at the conservative police and crime
:19:49. > :19:52.commissioner and their efforts to fight crime and specifically the
:19:53. > :19:59.chief constables national work on the prevent programme. I'm very
:20:00. > :20:04.happy to exit and congratulations I'm sure everybody across his house
:20:05. > :20:07.to the excellent work that is being done by the chief constable and the
:20:08. > :20:11.peace and crime commissioner. They have done an job and the crime
:20:12. > :20:15.commissioner will be stepping down. But I would like to thank them for
:20:16. > :20:20.the work that he has done over his first term at peace and crime
:20:21. > :20:24.commissioner. The main problem that the South Yorkshire police and crime
:20:25. > :20:35.commissioner faces is the shortfall in his budget was Roosevelt and too
:20:36. > :20:39.much 250 police jobs being lost. It makes rational planning difficult.
:20:40. > :20:43.With the home Secretary agreed that the PCs can do the job better if
:20:44. > :20:47.they had the budget set at the remainder of the Parliament of what
:20:48. > :20:58.will they do about it? The pitcher he has had out is not the one that I
:20:59. > :21:01.recognise. We have protected, police budgets, across the period of the
:21:02. > :21:05.Comprehensive Spending Review. I would have thought that he would
:21:06. > :21:16.have welcome that given that his front this one of the cut by 10%. A
:21:17. > :21:23.recent reports by the British retail consultant found that these crimes
:21:24. > :21:29.have gone up by 25%. What action was the home Secretary take to and a
:21:30. > :21:32.vote for commissioners to take act against any level of violence
:21:33. > :21:40.against retail staff. What action can be take to reduce this? First of
:21:41. > :21:50.all, I think we are all concerned about Violet Maxine taken place. It
:21:51. > :21:53.is a matter of real concern. The operational response to such crimes
:21:54. > :21:57.being committed and the business of such crimes as a matter for the
:21:58. > :22:02.chief Constable of the particular for the area to look into. I know
:22:03. > :22:08.there are a number of retail chain to ever working very closely. To try
:22:09. > :22:13.to ensure that they are able to provide added support and security
:22:14. > :22:16.for the staff. Although I have had my differences that time with the
:22:17. > :22:20.pleasing crime commissioner and the concert, when my right honourable
:22:21. > :22:23.friend agree with me that his record along with the biggest Achilles, and
:22:24. > :22:31.reducing crime is exemplary and is an example to all? I would again
:22:32. > :22:34.congratulate and walk him see what that is being done in the concert
:22:35. > :22:37.and relation to the reduction of crime by the chief Constable and the
:22:38. > :22:40.pleasing crime commissioner. It is not the only area where we have been
:22:41. > :22:49.able to see crime solving but I think that the following McNish or
:22:50. > :22:58.has been significant. -- Lancashire. Can I ask if she has any statement
:22:59. > :23:02.from the North have a sure crime commissioner from his panel? It is
:23:03. > :23:10.expected that the full transfer funding from the urban areas to more
:23:11. > :23:13.rural areas and that the city will benefit. As developing government
:23:14. > :23:19.policy or is it just letting the cat of the bag? I would have tossed the
:23:20. > :23:30.ombudsman would be aware, we have Derek Lilley said that the proposed
:23:31. > :23:34.changes that we were... We're trying to develop a formula that is
:23:35. > :23:48.affected of the needs. I also sent to the ombudsman he looks across the
:23:49. > :23:56.at police forces across the area he will see that the funding formula
:23:57. > :24:05.needs to change. Question five Mr Speaker. Mr Mike Penning, we ask
:24:06. > :24:18.permission to answer questions on the order paper. Pleasing crime
:24:19. > :24:24.commissioners will have a duty to collaborate on the Bill before this
:24:25. > :24:32.house becomes a law. Hampshire fire service and handsets of the services
:24:33. > :24:38.share a building resulting and financial sufficiency. Will he
:24:39. > :24:43.congratulated me and taking a lead and collaborative working. I was
:24:44. > :24:46.there recently and saw for myself deeply working is being done between
:24:47. > :24:53.the emergency services. The collaboration with the chief and the
:24:54. > :25:01.chief Constable as of the PCC to, they are doing excellent work. The
:25:02. > :25:03.map of my Honorable friend agree that it is important that the new
:25:04. > :25:07.generation of pleasing crime commissioners who have been elected,
:25:08. > :25:12.or will be elected in a couple months' time get behind this
:25:13. > :25:18.important reform. Will he join me in welcoming the commitment of the
:25:19. > :25:30.excellent PCC candidates and his strong desire to implement these
:25:31. > :25:33.subtler forms? We need to make sure that we spending taxpayer money
:25:34. > :25:45.efficiently and well and collaboration and that is the best
:25:46. > :25:55.way for that. She is really a shy or tiring so. The fire and rescue
:25:56. > :25:58.services collaborating very well all over the country, particularly with
:25:59. > :26:03.the ambulance trusts. Will you tell us why he sees necessary under the
:26:04. > :26:08.new bill, that the police and crime commissioners would actually take
:26:09. > :26:15.control of the fire services, surely the two organizations are so
:26:16. > :26:21.different in so many ways. You can have the collaboration without the
:26:22. > :26:28.PCC running our fire services. I think is of the matter, someone who
:26:29. > :26:33.is duly able to run that like a PCC should be on any committee. I'm sure
:26:34. > :26:37.we would want an efficient emergency service, before I service working
:26:38. > :26:47.closely with the police is the way we would like to do that.
:26:48. > :26:51.Collaboration with the services will be the communication network. How
:26:52. > :27:01.much will they cause, and though one day be in place? -- and when will
:27:02. > :27:04.they be in place. There are bits out there and the moment, it will be
:27:05. > :27:09.confidential at the moment. What we do know is that the air racism that
:27:10. > :27:17.we have had needs replacing, it is very expensive and this will be
:27:18. > :27:22.cheaper. The pleasing crime commissioner will put forward a
:27:23. > :27:25.business case to take over the governments of Hampshire for fire
:27:26. > :27:30.rescue services. My honourable friend pointed out what they already
:27:31. > :27:34.doing, we already have a trading arm which pays for the governments of
:27:35. > :27:37.the fire and rescue Authority. What this is the police and fire
:27:38. > :27:44.commission approved for that would allow him to run the service? If the
:27:45. > :27:49.local community wants to have a more efficient service which could be the
:27:50. > :27:53.case, and accept that they are particularly good. When I was in
:27:54. > :27:57.Hampshire there were people asking me for more collaboration, more work
:27:58. > :28:02.to be done to particularly from the front lines which is the most
:28:03. > :28:06.important the plaintiff. Given the cuts and funding to the police
:28:07. > :28:13.service, and the fire and rescue services already budgeted for by
:28:14. > :28:16.this government, can the Minister guarantee that placing fire and left
:28:17. > :28:25.the services under PCC control will not lead to further cut in the
:28:26. > :28:27.numbers of front line firefighters? This is bigger, thank goodness the
:28:28. > :28:31.chances of not listen to labor front bench to relive the funding for the
:28:32. > :28:37.please worked until 2020 because office they of a 10% cut. What we
:28:38. > :28:42.must make sure, what we must make sure is that we have an efficient
:28:43. > :28:56.service and that will be going for. Thank you Mr Speaker. Tackling crime
:28:57. > :29:02.is a priority for government. Show that knife crime is 14% lower than
:29:03. > :29:05.it was in June 2010, we recognise that there is more to do and new
:29:06. > :29:10.actions to tackle knife crime will be set out in the modern crime
:29:11. > :29:19.prevention strategy. I think my honourable friend for the first bite
:29:20. > :29:25.the. -- knife what action is her department taken to Brook -- tackle
:29:26. > :29:29.knife crime. Can I think my honourable friend for his question,
:29:30. > :29:37.and congratulate him on the new arrival, new baby who I believe was
:29:38. > :29:41.very involved in the delivery. I am also aware of the concerns about
:29:42. > :29:43.knife crimes and Essex, and I recently met with my right
:29:44. > :29:47.honourable friend and I have been more than happy to meet with him to
:29:48. > :29:51.discuss precisely this issue. The taking if they just steps, and early
:29:52. > :29:55.this month be supported 30 police forces, including Essex. They
:29:56. > :30:00.undertook coordinated action against knife crime. Thank you Mr Speaker.
:30:01. > :30:09.Knife crime, bike other crime is best dealt with preemptively. In
:30:10. > :30:14.Sussex crime has gone up 8%, and yet today the government inspector said
:30:15. > :30:18.that routinely front-line, neighbourhood, and local police and
:30:19. > :30:22.being taken away. Kenny Minister please be looked at the thousand
:30:23. > :30:28.front-line police officers and staff that are being taken away and for
:30:29. > :30:35.the impact neighbourhood policing? Mr Speaker, can I start when it's a
:30:36. > :30:37.-- comes to Sussex. Congratulating the police commissioner. At that
:30:38. > :30:51.hair, and we discussed to take she's I think he should remember the boat
:30:52. > :30:55.that he made in this house to cut police resources by 10%, something
:30:56. > :31:07.that decided the House disagreed with. Thank you Mr Speaker. Recently
:31:08. > :31:14.and Darby a young man lost his life. Lester, knife years rose across the
:31:15. > :31:18.UK. Can I ask my right honourable friend what steps the department are
:31:19. > :31:22.taking to tackle the scourge of individuals from carrying knives? My
:31:23. > :31:26.honourable friend is right. We do need to educate and show them people
:31:27. > :31:29.that caring matters is not school, it's not something that they should
:31:30. > :31:34.be doing. It's a big that they should understand is dangerous and
:31:35. > :31:37.can result in loss of life. That is why in the last parliament we
:31:38. > :31:42.legislated so that if someone is caught with a knife twice they have
:31:43. > :31:46.a mandatory prison sentence, and we are doing more work. I would be more
:31:47. > :31:54.than happy to work with her and discuss the specific issues and
:31:55. > :31:59.Darby which I do know have... Have the Minister considered amnesty to
:32:00. > :32:04.invite people to hand in weapons, whether it be knives or other
:32:05. > :32:09.weapons, it was very successful in the West Midlands. Mr Speaker, that
:32:10. > :32:15.is a matter for chief constables to determine. I said that we worked
:32:16. > :32:25.with 13 forces including within that work, world knife amnesties.
:32:26. > :32:30.Question number seven. Discussions with
:32:31. > :32:37.to ensure that the public are aware and protected from fraud. It is the
:32:38. > :32:44.mission to counter the wicked work of fraudsters. While I actually
:32:45. > :32:50.understand the difficulties and effectively policing the Internet,
:32:51. > :32:55.financial scams judging by my own parliamentary accounts, seem to be
:32:56. > :32:59.out of control. The most older people are being targeted. When my
:33:00. > :33:04.right honourable friend have another look at this issues and see if there
:33:05. > :33:08.is a way that we can bring these criminals to account? It's because
:33:09. > :33:13.we have taken a fresh look at this. Just as my honourable friend
:33:14. > :33:18.recommends that we have launched the joint task force, we are continuing
:33:19. > :33:21.to support the supply of the streetwise campaign which makes
:33:22. > :33:27.people more aware and guarded about fraud, but we have invested 90
:33:28. > :33:33.million, and one point billion and two security over the next years. We
:33:34. > :33:41.take this seriously. In the cyber age, I am a cyber minister up to the
:33:42. > :33:46.minute, up to the mark, and up to the job. LAUGHTER We would expect no
:33:47. > :33:54.less of the right honourable gentleman. Can I ask the cyber
:33:55. > :33:57.minister, as it seems to be -- since he is up to the mark, about the
:33:58. > :34:08.activities of a website which was discovered recently
:34:09. > :34:11.selling the stolen bank details of 100,000 British citizens? Since he
:34:12. > :34:16.is an up to the minute cyber minister, how is it possible for
:34:17. > :34:22.this website to carry on for six months before it was closed down?
:34:23. > :34:27.How much of the 1.9 billion that he is targeting on cyber crime will be
:34:28. > :34:33.used to proactively close downsides of this kind? The honourable
:34:34. > :34:36.gentleman knows because his committee has drawn attention to did
:34:37. > :34:41.in the past, that it is critically important that the government works
:34:42. > :34:45.with all other agencies including banks and private sector
:34:46. > :34:52.organizations, any task force has permission to do that. It is summed
:34:53. > :34:56.up by this. They have publicly signed up to commit their full
:34:57. > :35:01.support to work in partnership to protect the public from being
:35:02. > :35:08.victims of fraud, scams, and maximise opportunities to prevent
:35:09. > :35:11.fraudster from operating in the way that he recommended. Mr Speaker, the
:35:12. > :35:16.cyber minister will know that you are more likely to be marked online
:35:17. > :35:24.than in the street. -- mocked. Will the home secretary confirmed that
:35:25. > :35:33.after fighters of her government saying cut crime,. The tooth will be
:35:34. > :35:38.told that far from falling, crying is changing. Our country now faces
:35:39. > :35:43.crime doubling when this government continues to cut the number of
:35:44. > :35:46.police officer. The honourable gentleman will be disappointed to
:35:47. > :35:55.know that I am going to say that he is right. I remind him that we are
:35:56. > :35:58.the government that made the decision to publish the statistics,
:35:59. > :36:03.and to designate cyber crime and the way that we have. Until we
:36:04. > :36:06.appreciate the scale of the problem we won't develop the solutions
:36:07. > :36:12.necessary to deal with that. I would also say to him, as he will know,
:36:13. > :36:15.that we are using some of that extra resources to set up the national
:36:16. > :36:30.cyber centre to co-ordinate work in this area. Thank you Mr Speaker. The
:36:31. > :36:36.government has provided funding. It is interesting work that is going
:36:37. > :36:41.forward. Naturally, we will help encourage PC sees in the country to
:36:42. > :36:47.reduce crime, support victims, and closely engorged Democrats engage.
:36:48. > :36:52.The American comedian Eddie Cantor said that those currently on the
:36:53. > :36:56.most wanted list have been the most wanted as children, they would no
:36:57. > :37:00.longer be on the most wanted list. In that context, with the Minister
:37:01. > :37:04.welcomed the work that his department is doing with the early
:37:05. > :37:08.intervention foundation in creating police leaders academies on early
:37:09. > :37:12.intervention. Will he ensure that funding is available so that every
:37:13. > :37:23.police Commissioner a elected this year can attend courses this year.
:37:24. > :37:26.Can I praise the work of the early intervention foundation and the work
:37:27. > :37:30.that they're doing is important. Other agencies do important work,
:37:31. > :37:38.but we know about if we can catch them young to me compared to them
:37:39. > :37:42.from becoming criminals. Following the government's troubled families
:37:43. > :37:47.programme, it can be any doubt that early intervention works. It
:37:48. > :37:52.produces petty crime, encourages school attendance, gets people into
:37:53. > :37:56.jobs. What became clear and why this is welcome with the Minister is
:37:57. > :38:00.saying, without the active participation of the police, those
:38:01. > :38:06.programmes are so ineffectual. I hope that we will ensure that every
:38:07. > :38:14.chief constable in Commissioner will regard this in hype a wordy. I am
:38:15. > :38:17.sure that everyone has heard with my right honourable friend has said.
:38:18. > :38:23.That is why we put the money into the foundation, that is why we are
:38:24. > :38:26.doing the review at the moment into the police early intervention
:38:27. > :38:36.academy so that we can prove -- improve the outcomes. Humberside
:38:37. > :38:43.police is 500 fewer officers than five years ago, and of course across
:38:44. > :38:47.North Lincolnshire... Isn't it the case that the reality for the police
:38:48. > :38:52.on the ground is that early intervention is not a priority and
:38:53. > :38:59.it is being pushed onto ill resourced local authorities. Mr
:39:00. > :39:04.Speaker, I am sure that... Every single time we hear from the Labour
:39:05. > :39:08.Party they want more money and yet their front bench want to cut the
:39:09. > :39:20.funding to the police force. That is what the reality is, not what is
:39:21. > :39:33.actually going on. Number 11 Mr Speaker. Bear with me Mr Speaker. Mr
:39:34. > :39:39.Speaker, as I wrote earlier there are four police forces currently
:39:40. > :39:49.using track my crime. There are more coming on force, and 22 forces will
:39:50. > :39:53.have it available to them. I think the Minister for that answer. How
:39:54. > :39:56.successful has tracked my crime bend and supporting victims of crime and
:39:57. > :40:00.keeping them up to date and supporting them in the process of
:40:01. > :40:07.these matters being back investigated? When I broke this
:40:08. > :40:19.earlier, the tooth -- wrote. Victims have the confidence to
:40:20. > :40:27.actually believe in their justice system. Track my Crime will help
:40:28. > :40:40.that. The evidence gathering stage of the review has been done.
:40:41. > :40:47.18,000 police officers have been cut in the last five years. Is it really
:40:48. > :40:53.sensible to waste scarce police resources and enforcing a ban on
:40:54. > :41:01.poppers and criminalizing users other relatively harmless substance.
:41:02. > :41:06.I hope that the honourable gentleman will welcome the psychoactive
:41:07. > :41:09.substances act, because that blanket ban on the effect of these
:41:10. > :41:13.substances that we do not know what they do to young people and that
:41:14. > :41:18.they caused deaths is incredibly important. When it comes to poppers
:41:19. > :41:21.we have a commitment to reviewing the benefits of poppers against the
:41:22. > :41:28.harms to see whether they should be included. Question number 14 Mr
:41:29. > :41:38.Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker. The modern slavery act, it is too early
:41:39. > :41:44.to make it effective -- make effectiveness of this act. Some
:41:45. > :41:49.businesses are already published a statement setting out what steps
:41:50. > :41:57.they've taken to prevent moderates lately in they're gloating surprise
:41:58. > :42:01.James. Am grateful for that reply. He writes that the role that the
:42:02. > :42:05.private sector can play in the fight against slavery should not be
:42:06. > :42:10.underestimated. What assessment has she made so far of the effectiveness
:42:11. > :42:16.of the transparency and supply chain's provision in the act for
:42:17. > :42:21.companies of turnovers with ?36 million or more. He is right. It is
:42:22. > :42:24.not about law enforcement and government taking action, it is
:42:25. > :42:29.about working with the private sector and with businesses. I am
:42:30. > :42:33.pleased that although the first set of declarations and relation to
:42:34. > :42:37.supply chains is only from the 31st of March, we have seen a number of
:42:38. > :42:42.companies going forward and making this declaration. I will in a month
:42:43. > :42:46.or so hold an event with companies to share good practice so that we
:42:47. > :42:50.can make sure that we are getting the best event, ending consumers can
:42:51. > :42:55.make their decision. Despite some of the good measures in the act, the
:42:56. > :42:59.fact is that child trafficking is still taking place across the
:43:00. > :43:07.European Union. It is taken within the scandal that is the migration
:43:08. > :43:11.crisis. What work is the home Secretary doing with her colleagues
:43:12. > :43:16.across the European Union to make sure that this issue is adequately
:43:17. > :43:20.tackled across all 28 Member States? First of all, I am encouraging other
:43:21. > :43:23.member state to take the steps that we are taking in terms of
:43:24. > :43:29.interesting new legislation adjective at the modern slavery act.
:43:30. > :43:29.Secondly, we are working with organised immigration crime --
:43:30. > :43:47.immigration crime. Quack I think that this is of enormous
:43:48. > :43:52.benefit because he is an expert in this area. Further to the question,
:43:53. > :43:57.could my right honourable friend set out in more detail the importance of
:43:58. > :44:01.the transparency and supply chains in the modern slavery act, and
:44:02. > :44:10.perhaps how it will be monitored in the future? Not to too much detail,
:44:11. > :44:13.given the time. I think that it has to import and fax. It makes
:44:14. > :44:17.companies think about the issues of the supply chains and whether there
:44:18. > :44:22.is slavery. Secondly, there are declarations as to what or no action
:44:23. > :44:29.they have taken, will be available to consumers, and they can make sure
:44:30. > :44:32.-- make choices. We are looking at a number of options for ensuring that
:44:33. > :44:40.that information is publicly available in one place. May I make
:44:41. > :44:45.the right honourable lady aware about doing excellent work in my
:44:46. > :44:49.constituency. I am shocked to hear the extent of modern slavery in this
:44:50. > :44:54.country. Does she think that people are sufficiently aware and what can
:44:55. > :44:59.she do to highlight that? Can I say to the honourable gentlemen we are
:45:00. > :45:03.are aware of the work of this organisation does. He is right. Most
:45:04. > :45:07.people in this country are shocked to know that shaped An slavery takes
:45:08. > :45:15.place, and would be more shocked to see the degree and extent of it. It
:45:16. > :45:17.is up to everyone in this house to make sure that everyone knows that
:45:18. > :45:38.they do. The government is and challenge Daesh's mitigation. I
:45:39. > :45:44.think the Minister for that response. Daesh is committing
:45:45. > :45:48.atrocities against others who do not agree with them with their way of
:45:49. > :45:52.life. What is the government doing to communicate those viscosities
:45:53. > :46:00.across the UK to prevent the spread of extreme it -- extremism across
:46:01. > :46:11.the UK. We have to challenge those extreme opinions. The UK's
:46:12. > :46:19.government highlights hyperbole is of Daesh. We work with those that I
:46:20. > :46:28.described a minute ago, 130 based community projects were delivered in
:46:29. > :46:32.2015, reaching 20 5000 people. That's 20 5000. I am glad that in
:46:33. > :46:36.this most solemn of matter and the honourable gentleman has been able
:46:37. > :46:44.to provide us with the political florist. Question number one served.
:46:45. > :46:57.Last week I was in Washington I think ministerial. A set that is
:46:58. > :47:01.really. 2014, Daesh directed, inspired, or enabled attacks in
:47:02. > :47:05.other countries worldwide. In 2015 there are almost 60 attacks, as well
:47:06. > :47:09.as well is to budget the tax tear it up by Daesh branches, including
:47:10. > :47:16.those in Libya and Egypt. This is a fight that cannot be won by five --
:47:17. > :47:27.fighting in isolation. We should be more open and sharing intelligence,
:47:28. > :47:30.and our expertise. We must organise our own efforts effectively to
:47:31. > :47:35.support vulnerable state and improve their ability to respond to the
:47:36. > :47:39.threat from terrorism. We made commitments to strengthen
:47:40. > :47:45.information sharing, enhanced efforts and discourage social media.
:47:46. > :47:49.This is the child's of our generation, and one that we will win
:47:50. > :47:53.by working together. Thank you Mr Speaker. I think my right honourable
:47:54. > :48:00.friend for her answer. But she acted with me that the creation of this
:48:01. > :48:03.was the step in the right direction, and this will change radically the
:48:04. > :48:09.future and take on more responsibilities? I agree with my
:48:10. > :48:12.honourable friend. It was important to create that directly elected
:48:13. > :48:15.individual, accountable to the public a little cruising. The call
:48:16. > :48:20.from police and crime commission is because you want to see that role of
:48:21. > :48:23.all. My right honourable friend are already in discussions about how
:48:24. > :48:29.this will might revolve and as to the criminal justice system stop
:48:30. > :48:35.can recommend the home Secretary on her announcement this began, and on
:48:36. > :48:41.her decision to put the national interest before self-interest.
:48:42. > :48:45.Unlike others. When she began at some secretary she took a
:48:46. > :48:50.Eurosceptic stance, opting out of dozens of EU measures. She has since
:48:51. > :48:55.opted back into many, most recently on the sharing of fingerprinting and
:48:56. > :49:00.DNA. Is it fair to say that the realities of office has shown her
:49:01. > :49:04.the value of EU cooperation in tackling crime and terrorism, and
:49:05. > :49:10.changed her mind on print's membership of the EU? I have always
:49:11. > :49:14.been very clear about the value of cooperation when it is in the
:49:15. > :49:18.British national interest. That is what of the 35 measures that we have
:49:19. > :49:25.decided to propose it this house should opt back into, and relation
:49:26. > :49:28.to critical 36, it was precisely because we believed it was of a
:49:29. > :49:35.national interest. I think I will take that as a yes Mr Speaker.
:49:36. > :49:40.Yesterday the Prime Minister was explicitly clear that our membership
:49:41. > :49:44.in the EU helps Britain fight terrorism. But, within minutes he
:49:45. > :49:51.was directly contradicted by one of his own cabinet members who claims
:49:52. > :49:57.that the each -- UK's EU membership made a terrorist attack are likely.
:49:58. > :50:02.Coming from an array senior members of the Cabinet, it is downright
:50:03. > :50:07.irresponsible. Will the home Secretary take this opportunity to
:50:08. > :50:14.reaffirm Government policy on this crucial issue and condemn this
:50:15. > :50:23.baseless scaremongering. Hear, hear! The government's issue is clear. I
:50:24. > :50:27.am clear that there are more areas in which cooperation with other
:50:28. > :50:31.Member States in the European Union is in our benefit in terms of the
:50:32. > :50:35.national security of this country and dealing with criminal matters.
:50:36. > :50:39.As I indicated earlier, and response to questions, we do take security at
:50:40. > :50:46.our borders seriously and that is why we have the checks that we do.
:50:47. > :50:52.The government has agreed to work when -- work and create new
:50:53. > :50:55.initiatives. Can the Minister confirm in the initiative will begin
:50:56. > :50:59.and which organizations the government will work with to help
:51:00. > :51:04.identify those children? Can I thank my honourable friend for her
:51:05. > :51:11.question. We are working with the NHC are in relation to development
:51:12. > :51:22.of a new initiative. Discussions are ongoing with the, we have had round
:51:23. > :51:27.table discussions. You will come back when our consideration has
:51:28. > :51:31.concluded. Thank you Mr Speaker. Following on in the vein of
:51:32. > :51:34.trafficking, I would like to ask the question of a constituent of I Blake
:51:35. > :51:38.cannot name because of her vulnerability. She was human traffic
:51:39. > :51:43.from Nigeria to the UK, held in domestic slavery in London, and
:51:44. > :51:46.escaped over ten years ago to my constituency. She now has a family
:51:47. > :51:52.and a husband. Her children were born in Scotland, but you cannot get
:51:53. > :51:55.help. Her the home office has not been helpful. Can the Minister meet
:51:56. > :52:01.with me and see what can be done to help his family settled in Scotland?
:52:02. > :52:05.Can I say to the honourable lady that she raises what appeared to be
:52:06. > :52:09.a serious individual case. If I may, Mr Speaker, if I can speak to the
:52:10. > :52:16.honourable lady after the station and obtained some more details we
:52:17. > :52:20.will respond. Thank you Mr Speaker. I met with a number of police
:52:21. > :52:28.officers and my constituency who have witnessed extreme trauma. The
:52:29. > :52:32.arrangements for their sick pay and their medical discharge and pension
:52:33. > :52:36.seem to be strikingly different to that of those who have suffered
:52:37. > :52:38.physical injury in the courts of their duty. Does my right honourable
:52:39. > :52:45.friend agree with the Vatican and the government's pursuit of parity
:52:46. > :52:50.between mental and physical illness, police forces should be ensuring
:52:51. > :52:55.that all injury or illness that is attributable to service is supported
:52:56. > :52:58.in the same way. I agree with my right honourable friend. Police
:52:59. > :53:02.officers are entitled to exactly the same sick leave and pay arrangements
:53:03. > :53:11.suffer a mental or a physical on this. Request is subject to same
:53:12. > :53:14.task, and is is possibility of chief constables that they provide for
:53:15. > :53:19.that in their local policies. I am also pleased to say that in October
:53:20. > :53:23.2014, the government allocated ?8 million to the blue light services
:53:24. > :53:27.programme to support the mental and physical well-being of emergency
:53:28. > :53:31.services personnel. The government have always justified their cuts to
:53:32. > :53:38.policing on the basis that crime has not gone up. Since 2010, we have
:53:39. > :53:45.lost more officers than any other force. Crime in Manchester is going
:53:46. > :53:49.up and going up faster than other metropolitan areas. As crime
:53:50. > :53:51.continues to rise, with the government reasonably be considered
:53:52. > :53:56.the production to the number of front line police officers? Lets go
:53:57. > :54:00.of this again. We as a government have not produced a number of police
:54:01. > :54:03.officers on the front line. And front line times, the percentage
:54:04. > :54:09.have gone up. One party that wanted to cut the police budget was the
:54:10. > :54:16.Labour Party. That was a people we do not to. Thank you Mr Speaker.
:54:17. > :54:22.What steps the secretary of state taking to see what we are doing to
:54:23. > :54:26.better protect the public. We are taking a number of steps as a piece
:54:27. > :54:30.of work that is being undertaken to ensure that we look at where
:54:31. > :54:36.capabilities should best light in terms of police reform. I just
:54:37. > :54:40.others this year and relation to this matter. I am happy to say that
:54:41. > :54:45.I have been able to have discussion on precisely this matter with an
:54:46. > :54:55.honourable friend who if he becomes mayor of London will continue this.
:54:56. > :55:01.The chief Rob Wainwright has ordered up to 5000 ices fighters in the EU.
:55:02. > :55:07.How does the home Secretary Phil that being in the EU makes us safer?
:55:08. > :55:11.The honourable gentleman will be aware that what is important for the
:55:12. > :55:15.United Kingdom and being in the European Union is that we are able
:55:16. > :55:20.to continue with the border controls that we have. Unlike those country
:55:21. > :55:29.and sang and, we will never be an changing, and read will maintain our
:55:30. > :55:34.security checks. Hear, hear! Mr Speaker! The Prime Minister has
:55:35. > :55:39.claimed that he has delivered on his promise that if an EU job seeker has
:55:40. > :55:44.not found work within six months they will be required to leave. A
:55:45. > :55:53.promise that he made to JCB workers on the 20th of November 20 14. In
:55:54. > :55:58.reply to my worker -- a written question, number 17574 in December
:55:59. > :56:01.of last year, the integration committee admitted that Aidan EU
:56:02. > :56:06.migrants and keep the status of the job seeker for longer than six
:56:07. > :56:09.months. Can the home secretary clarified who is right? The Prime
:56:10. > :56:15.Minister or the immigration minister? I think that we can safely
:56:16. > :56:19.say that the Prime Minister is right. In a few moments time he will
:56:20. > :56:28.be able to hew precisely how the Prime Minister has set up out. Mr
:56:29. > :56:32.Speaker, I was proud to be able to joint housing for women last week to
:56:33. > :56:40.celebrate the first anniversary of their operating the women's refuge.
:56:41. > :56:43.They support 38 women and children and 2015. Unfortunately, not all
:56:44. > :56:50.refugees are in the same position. 30 have closed over the last year.
:56:51. > :56:54.42% of crisis and is not having money beyond next month. Can the
:56:55. > :56:59.home Secretary do everything she can to ensure that no woman is forced to
:57:00. > :57:06.return home to a violent partner and possibly her death? The honourable
:57:07. > :57:11.lady, I remember the days when she and I both served on the Council for
:57:12. > :57:14.the London Borough of Merton. She continues to take in this issue
:57:15. > :57:17.domestic violence and support for the victims and survivors of
:57:18. > :57:21.domestic violence. Of course, the government has put extra money into
:57:22. > :57:25.refugees. We have been able to do that and we have also been ensuring
:57:26. > :57:28.that we support money for various domestic violence services. This is
:57:29. > :57:36.a terrible time -- crime and we need to deal with that. What assessment
:57:37. > :57:43.has been made about a number of connections made by police forces
:57:44. > :57:49.for child abuse images date is basis to be launched? My honourable friend
:57:50. > :57:53.raise and important issues. Child abuse image database. Something that
:57:54. > :57:59.this government into dues and is leading the world in terms of
:58:00. > :58:04.tackling indecent images of children online. We now have all 43 forces
:58:05. > :58:16.connected to the image database. We are starting to see real results in
:58:17. > :58:23.protecting children. Where police, fire and rescue services,. Will the
:58:24. > :58:29.Minister did a guarantee that whatever happened that there that --
:58:30. > :58:37.that they would allow the services provided to be privatised? The whole
:58:38. > :58:40.reason for enabling police and crime commission is to bring together
:58:41. > :58:45.policing and fire and rescue services is to be able to offer
:58:46. > :58:47.enhanced services. In looking at a decision to be on a local level, a
:58:48. > :59:01.business it -- case will Mr Speaker, the commission I would
:59:02. > :59:05.like to make a statement on the agreements reached in Brussels last
:59:06. > :59:09.week. First let me say a word about the migration crisis which was also
:59:10. > :59:13.discussed at the European Council. We agreed that we needed to press
:59:14. > :59:18.ahead with strengthening the use borders to ensure that not the
:59:19. > :59:24.charges are returned promptly and back the new mission that has
:59:25. > :59:29.brought the criminal gangs to put them in peoples slides and the risk.
:59:30. > :59:33.Britain. But the Constitution and all of these areas. Turning to
:59:34. > :59:36.Britain's place in Europe. I have spent the last nine months ending
:59:37. > :59:41.out the four areas are ready for form and beating with all other 27
:59:42. > :59:44.EU heads of state and government to reach an agreed with that delivers
:59:45. > :59:50.concrete reforms and all four areas. Let me take each in turn. First, but
:59:51. > :59:54.as jobs and businesses depend on being able to trade with Europe on a
:59:55. > :00:00.level praying field. The one new protection for our economy to
:00:01. > :00:03.safeguard the proud and promote our financial services industry to
:00:04. > :00:06.protect British taxpayers from because the problems in the euro
:00:07. > :00:10.zone and to ensure that we have a full say over the rules of a single
:00:11. > :00:15.market while remaining outside the euro zone. We got all those things.
:00:16. > :00:18.We have not is probably the fact of the towns and our right to keep it
:00:19. > :00:23.but we have ensured that we cannot discriminate against. Responsibility
:00:24. > :00:26.for supervising the financial stability of the UK, will always
:00:27. > :00:44.remain in the hands of the Bank of England. We
:00:45. > :00:48.have not be made to bail out countries in the euro zone, they
:00:49. > :00:50.made sure that the euro zone cannot act as a block to undermine the
:00:51. > :00:53.integrity of these free-trade single market. We guarantee that produced
:00:54. > :00:55.this is one of faith and he does commission for being outside the
:00:56. > :00:57.euro zone. For example, our financial service firms, our number
:00:58. > :01:00.one service export, employing over a million people can ever be forced to
:01:01. > :01:02.relocate inside the euro zone if they want to undertake complex
:01:03. > :01:05.trades and Europe, just because they're based in the UK. These with
:01:06. > :01:07.taxes and not to set out in a legally binding agreements, off 28
:01:08. > :01:10.member states will also clear that these reviews will be changed, to
:01:11. > :01:15.incorporate the protections of the UK as the economy that is inside the
:01:16. > :01:26.EU, but outside the euro zone. We also agree that a to enable 9 euros
:01:27. > :01:28.on countries to raise issues of concern, and we won the battle to
:01:29. > :01:31.ensure that this could be triggered by one country alone. Of course the
:01:32. > :01:34.distance would be available if he were to leave the EU. We wanted
:01:35. > :01:37.commitments to make Europe more competitive, creating jobs, and
:01:38. > :01:42.making British families more financially secure. Again, we got
:01:43. > :01:46.them. Europe will complete the single market and key areas that
:01:47. > :01:52.will help Britain. And services making it easier for thousands of UK
:01:53. > :01:59.service bays companies like IT firms to trade in Europe. In the capital
:02:00. > :02:07.so UK startups can access more for their business and an energy. We
:02:08. > :02:10.have secured commitments to complete trade and investment agreements with
:02:11. > :02:15.the fastest-growing and most dynamic economies around the world.
:02:16. > :02:19.Including the USA, Japan, China as well as our Commonwealth allies,
:02:20. > :02:24.India, New Zealand and Australia. These deals could add billions of
:02:25. > :02:29.pounds and thousands of jobs. Of course, they build on the deals we
:02:30. > :02:33.already have with the three countries around the world for which
:02:34. > :02:35.Britain has been accredited to the negotiating muscle that comes from
:02:36. > :02:41.being part of the world largest trading bloc. This is bigger, of
:02:42. > :02:45.course country after country has said that they could find trade
:02:46. > :02:50.deals with Britain, but they have also said that their priority would
:02:51. > :02:54.be trade deals with the EU. By their nature, these EU deals would be
:02:55. > :02:59.bigger and better, a deal with Britain would not even be possible
:03:00. > :03:02.until we have settled our position outside of the EU. This is bigger,
:03:03. > :03:07.for those members who care about finding new trade deals outside of
:03:08. > :03:49.the EU, we would be looking at years and years of delay.
:03:50. > :03:53.Last but by no means least on competitiveness, one of the biggest
:03:54. > :03:55.frustrations for Britain's business is red tape and bureaucracy. There
:03:56. > :03:58.will be partners to cut the total burden of EU regulation on business.
:03:59. > :04:00.This build on the progress that we have already made, with the
:04:01. > :04:03.commission already cutting the number of initiatives by 80%. In the
:04:04. > :04:06.that the cost of EU red tape will be going down, not up. Of course if we
:04:07. > :04:08.were to leave the EU, but ultimately achieve a deal, with access to the
:04:09. > :04:11.single market like Norway. Who would be subject to all of the EU
:04:12. > :04:14.regulation when selling in the euro. But with no say over the world. As
:04:15. > :04:17.the former Europe spokesman for the no reason conservative party, if you
:04:18. > :04:20.want to run Europe you must be an euro. If you want to be run by
:04:21. > :04:22.Europe, feel free to join nor Ray. Third, we want to reduce the very
:04:23. > :04:25.high level of migration within the unique -- EQ by preventing our role
:04:26. > :04:28.for system to act as a magnet for people to come to our country. After
:04:29. > :04:30.the hard work of the home Secretary we have secured new powers against
:04:31. > :04:34.criminals of the country and power to stop them from coming here in the
:04:35. > :04:36.first is empowered to do for them if they already here. We agreed a
:04:37. > :04:39.longer reentry bands for fraudsters and people who collude and then into
:04:40. > :04:42.the ridiculous situation for EU nationals can avoid British
:04:43. > :04:47.immigration rules when bringing their feminism outside the EU.
:04:48. > :04:51.Disagreement broke new ground with the European Council agreed to
:04:52. > :04:56.reverse positions from the European Court of Justice. We also secured a
:04:57. > :05:00.breakthrough agreement for Britain to reduce the unnatural drawl that I
:05:01. > :05:05.benefit system exerts across Europe. Therefore he made sure that EU
:05:06. > :05:09.migrants cannot claim the new employment benefit or universal
:05:10. > :05:13.credit. Those coming that have not found work within six months cannot
:05:14. > :05:17.be required to leave. At this counsel we agree that EU migrants
:05:18. > :05:22.working in Britain can be prevented from sending Child benefit home at
:05:23. > :05:26.UK rates. This would apply first some new claimants and then to
:05:27. > :05:32.existing claimants on the start of 2020. We also establish a new break
:05:33. > :05:36.so that EU migrants would have to wait for years until they have full
:05:37. > :05:43.access to our benefit. Mr Speaker, people for the it was impossible to
:05:44. > :05:49.achieve real change in our area. Yet, that is what we have done, we
:05:50. > :05:55.have got the benefit. What is activated, once activated, the
:05:56. > :06:01.emergency brake will be in place for seven years. If it began to lecture
:06:02. > :06:07.it will still be operating in 2024. There will be people who won't be
:06:08. > :06:16.getting 40 benefits until 2028. Bass full benefits. People should not be
:06:17. > :06:21.able to come there and get access to our benefit to them straightaway. No
:06:22. > :06:26.were something for nothing. I'm sure the discussion about welfare and
:06:27. > :06:31.immigration, will be intense, let me make this point. No country outside
:06:32. > :06:36.of the EU has agreed full access to the single market without accepting
:06:37. > :06:41.paying into the EU, and accepting free movement. In addition, our new
:06:42. > :06:46.safeguard lives if we vote the leave the EU. We might end up with free
:06:47. > :06:52.movement, but without these new protections. The fourth area, where
:06:53. > :06:57.we wanted to make significant changes was to protect our country
:06:58. > :07:01.from further European political integration, and to increased powers
:07:02. > :07:05.for our national parliament. Ever since we joined, Europe has been on
:07:06. > :07:10.the path to something ever closer union. It means a political union.
:07:11. > :07:16.We have never liked it or wanted it. And now, principal be permanently
:07:17. > :07:20.and legally excluded from it. The text that is, the treaties will be
:07:21. > :07:25.changed to make clear, and I quote, the Treaty represents for an ever
:07:26. > :07:30.closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom. This is bigger, as a
:07:31. > :07:35.result of this negotiation, perfect in every part of a European Union
:07:36. > :07:38.superstate. The council also agreed that ever closer union which has
:07:39. > :07:43.been referred to, and previous estimates from the European Court of
:07:44. > :07:47.Justice, does not offer a legal basis, for extending the scope of
:07:48. > :07:52.any provisions of the charges, or any you secretary the translation.
:07:53. > :07:56.People used to talk about a multispeed Europe, now we have a
:07:57. > :07:59.clear agreement that not only are different countries able to travel
:08:00. > :08:04.at different speeds, but they are ultimately able to head to different
:08:05. > :08:09.destinations as well. I would argue that that is a fundamental change in
:08:10. > :08:12.the wait is over additional work. We also strengthen the role of this
:08:13. > :08:18.house and on national parliament, we already passed a referendum act, to
:08:19. > :08:20.make sure that no powers can be handed to Brussels without this
:08:21. > :08:23.house and on national parliament, we already passed a referendum act, to
:08:24. > :08:25.make sure that no powers can be handed to Brussels with updates with
:08:26. > :08:28.the consent of the British the position we don't want, we can get
:08:29. > :08:32.together with other parliaments and block it with a red card. And we
:08:33. > :08:36.have a new mechanism to enforce the principle that as far as possible,
:08:37. > :08:43.powers to sit here and Westminster, not to Brussels. The European Union
:08:44. > :08:46.has to go through the powers of the exercise and work-out which are no
:08:47. > :08:53.longer needed and should be returned to Michigan State. In recent years
:08:54. > :08:55.we have also seen attempt to bypass are off out on Justice and home
:08:56. > :09:07.affairs by bringing forward legislation. The agreements and Les
:09:08. > :09:13.Bleus Council ensures that this can never happen again. The reforms that
:09:14. > :09:16.we have secured will be legally binding in international law and
:09:17. > :09:22.will be deposited as a Treaty at the UN. They cannot be unpacked that the
:09:23. > :09:27.agreement of the prison every other EU countries. As I have said, I'll
:09:28. > :09:30.28 member states that the treaty will be changed to incorporate
:09:31. > :09:34.advertisers for the UK as an economy outside the euro zone, and our
:09:35. > :09:39.permanent exclusion from ever closer union. Mr Speaker, our special
:09:40. > :09:45.status means that Britain can have the both best of both worlds. Who
:09:46. > :09:48.will be in the path of Europe that work for us, and so it's a affect
:09:49. > :09:53.us, in the driving seat of the worlds biggest single market, and
:09:54. > :10:32.with the ability to take action to keep our people safe. We will be
:10:33. > :10:37.out of the parts of Europe that do not work for us. Out of the euro, as
:10:38. > :10:39.of the euro zone bailouts come out of the passport periods no border
:10:40. > :10:42.area and permanently and legally protected from ever being part of a
:10:43. > :10:45.ever closer union. Of course there is still more to do, I am the first
:10:46. > :10:47.to say, that there is though many ways and was organisation needs to
:10:48. > :10:49.improve. The task of reforming Europe does not and with plastics
:10:50. > :10:52.agreement. With the special status that the settlement gives the I do
:10:53. > :10:54.believe that the time has come to fulfilling the other final
:10:55. > :10:57.commitment that this government made and that is to hold a referendum. Mr
:10:58. > :10:59.Speaker, this Speaker, I am today commended the process set out from
:11:00. > :11:02.our act and to propose that the British people decide our future and
:11:03. > :11:04.Europe to an in and out referendum on Thursday the 23rd of June. The
:11:05. > :11:07.Foreign Secretary is late and both houses and the government is
:11:08. > :11:09.negotiating it. This is built into the duty to publish information, set
:11:10. > :11:11.out in section six of the European Union referendum and that the
:11:12. > :11:13.Cabinet agreed on Saturday, the government of Zimbabwe to recommend
:11:14. > :11:19.that person remains in a reformed European Union. This is a vital
:11:20. > :11:24.decision for the future of our country, I agree that we should also
:11:25. > :11:28.be clear that it is a final decision. An idea has been put
:11:29. > :11:32.forward that in the country votes to leave. We can have a second
:11:33. > :11:38.renegotiation and perhaps another referendum. I want to vote on the
:11:39. > :11:40.irony that some people who want to vote to leave, apparently want to
:11:41. > :12:05.use a leave to remain. Such an approach, also ignores more profound
:12:06. > :12:09.point about democracy, diplomacy and the galaxy. This is a straight
:12:10. > :12:14.Democratic position. Staying in or leaving and no government can ignore
:12:15. > :12:22.that. Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is
:12:23. > :12:25.not on the ballot paper. And for a promise are to ignore the expressed
:12:26. > :12:31.will of the British people to leave the EU, we are not just from but it
:12:32. > :12:35.would be undemocratic. On the diplomacy, the idea that the other
:12:36. > :12:39.European countries will be ready to start a second negotiation is for
:12:40. > :12:44.the birds. Many are under pressure for what they have already agreed.
:12:45. > :12:48.Then there is a legality and I want to start off as point for the house
:12:49. > :12:52.carefully because it is important. If the British people told to leave,
:12:53. > :12:57.there is only one way to bring that about. That is to trigger article 50
:12:58. > :13:01.of the treaties and begin the process of exit. The British people
:13:02. > :13:05.would rightly expect that that should start straightaway. That may
:13:06. > :13:10.be absolutely clear about how this works. As triggers a two your time
:13:11. > :13:15.period to negotiate the residence for an exit. At the end of the
:13:16. > :13:20.stairs, is no group what is in place, then exit is automatic and
:13:21. > :13:28.left everybody in the other states agrees to a delay. We should be
:13:29. > :13:31.clear that this process is not a invitation to rejoin, it is a
:13:32. > :13:36.process for leaving. I have known a number of couples who have began
:13:37. > :13:39.divorce proceedings, but I do not know an event begun divorce
:13:40. > :13:54.proceedings and order to renew their marriage vows. LAUGHTER that may
:13:55. > :14:01.explain, I want to explain what happens when section 50. We should
:14:02. > :14:07.also be clear... We should also be clear, what would happen if that
:14:08. > :14:10.deal to leave was not done within two years. Our current access to the
:14:11. > :14:14.single market would cease immediately, after two your throat.
:14:15. > :14:18.The current trade agreements with the difficulties across the world
:14:19. > :14:23.would lapse. This cannot be described as anything other than
:14:24. > :14:27.risk, uncertainty and a lead in the dark that could hurt working people
:14:28. > :14:32.and our country for years to come. This is not some theoretical
:14:33. > :14:44.question, this is a real decision about peoples lives.
:14:45. > :14:49.When it comes the people stops, it is simply not enough to say it will
:14:50. > :14:51.be all right on the night that will work it out. I believe that
:14:52. > :14:54.intermixed the company to properly face up to the economic consequences
:14:55. > :14:56.of a choice to leave. Mr Speaker, I believe that Britain will be
:14:57. > :14:58.stronger, safer and better off by remaining in a reformed European
:14:59. > :15:01.Union. Stronger, because we can play a leading role in one of the worlds
:15:02. > :15:04.largest organizations from within. Helping to make sure the big
:15:05. > :15:08.decisions on trade and security that determine our future. Safer, because
:15:09. > :15:12.the can work with our European partners to fight cross-border crime
:15:13. > :15:16.and terrorism. And better off because businesses will have full
:15:17. > :15:24.access to the free-trade single market, bringing jobs, investment
:15:25. > :15:26.and lower prices. Mr Speaker, there will be much debate about
:15:27. > :15:29.sovereignty and rightly so, to me, what matters most is the pattern to
:15:30. > :15:34.get things done for our people and our country. Leaving the EU may
:15:35. > :15:38.briefly make us feel more sovereign, but would actually give us more
:15:39. > :15:43.power or influence and a greater ability to get things done? If we
:15:44. > :15:47.leave, but we have the power to stop opposite is being discriminated
:15:48. > :15:51.against? No! But we have the power to insist that Europeans countries
:15:52. > :15:55.share with us their bold information so that we know what there is that
:15:56. > :15:59.criminals are doing? No! We have more influence over the decisions
:16:00. > :16:03.that affect the prosperity and security epistemic? Know we won't!
:16:04. > :16:07.We are a great country! Whatever it was the make, we will still be
:16:08. > :16:13.great! I believe the choice, is between being and even greater brain
:16:14. > :16:17.inside how to reform the EU, or a great leap into the unknown! The
:16:18. > :16:20.Times is facing the West and how to reform the EU, or a great leap into
:16:21. > :16:23.the unknown! The Times is facing the West today Vladimir Putin aggression
:16:24. > :16:28.and eases the most extremism to the south, this is in no time to divide
:16:29. > :16:32.the web. When faced with challenges, and to our way of life, our values
:16:33. > :16:38.and freedoms, this is it time for strength in numbers. Mr Speaker, let
:16:39. > :16:45.me end by saying, I am not standing for reelection. I have no other
:16:46. > :16:50.agenda I have no other agenda than what is best for our country. I am
:16:51. > :16:53.standing here telling you what I think. My responsibility as prime
:16:54. > :16:58.minister is to speak plainly about what I believe is right for our
:16:59. > :17:01.country. That that is what I will do every day for the next four months.
:17:02. > :17:12.I commend the statements of the house! Thinking is bigger. I would
:17:13. > :17:15.like to think the promise of four advanced notice of the statement.
:17:16. > :17:27.And I visited him in a long time to write it because I receded a but
:17:28. > :17:32.it's as afternoon. -- I received it at 3pm this afternoon. The people of
:17:33. > :17:35.Britain face in-store price on the 23rd of June on whether to remain
:17:36. > :17:40.part of the European Union went to leave. We welcome the fact that it
:17:41. > :17:52.is now the hands of the people on this issue. We are wanting to stay
:17:53. > :17:54.and because he believed that the European Union has brought
:17:55. > :17:57.investment jobs and protection for work of consumers and the
:17:58. > :18:04.environment. We are convinced that a vote to remain as of the best
:18:05. > :18:08.interest of the people. And the 21st-century Mr Speaker, as a
:18:09. > :18:12.country and a consummate and as the human race. We faced with
:18:13. > :18:17.challenging issues. How to tackle climate change, how to address the
:18:18. > :18:22.power of global corporations, how to ensure that they pay state taxes.
:18:23. > :18:28.How to tackle cyber crime and terrorism, I would trade fairly and
:18:29. > :18:31.protect jobs and pay in an era of globalisation. How we address the
:18:32. > :18:38.causes of the huge refugee movement across the world. How would add that
:18:39. > :18:44.to a world where people of all countries, move more frequently to
:18:45. > :18:47.live, work and retire. All of these issues are serious, pressing and
:18:48. > :18:52.self-evidently can only be solved by international cooperation. The
:18:53. > :18:58.European Union will be a vital part of how we as a country meet those
:18:59. > :19:02.challenges. Therefore Mr Speaker. That is more than disappointing that
:19:03. > :19:08.the prime Minister Steele has failed to address a single one of those
:19:09. > :19:16.issues. Last week, like him, I was in Brussels, meeting with heads of
:19:17. > :19:17.governments and leaders of European Union Socialist party. One of them
:19:18. > :19:57.said to me, what they said, if the party opposite of what
:19:58. > :20:01.had to think for a moment about what's going on. One person said to
:20:02. > :20:07.me, I follows quite profound, he said we are discussing the future of
:20:08. > :20:12.a continent. And one English Tory has reduced it to the issue of
:20:13. > :20:16.taking away benefits from workers and children. The reality Mr
:20:17. > :20:20.Speaker, is that this entire negotiation has not been about the
:20:21. > :20:26.challenges facing our confidence, neither has it been about the issues
:20:27. > :20:31.facing the people of Britain it is a theatrical sideshow about trying to
:20:32. > :20:36.appease or failing to appease the half of the Prime Minister is all
:20:37. > :20:41.the conservative party. That is not to say that there has not been
:20:42. > :20:46.somewhat worthwhile changes. The Redcar assist him, to strengthen the
:20:47. > :20:53.house of national parliament is something we and these mentors have
:20:54. > :20:59.long back, the labor and elastin last in Iraq's election. It was not
:21:00. > :21:03.of the conservative man manifesto but we welcome this. We also welcome
:21:04. > :21:09.the symbolic amendment on ever closer union. Britain's
:21:10. > :21:15.long-standing position not to join has been such an accepted. We see
:21:16. > :21:22.the influence of Tory party funders, on a Prime Minister vessel status,
:21:23. > :21:26.not for Britain but the city of London. It is the same essence of
:21:27. > :21:34.that caused his the Chancellor to rush to Europe with an army of
:21:35. > :21:39.lawyers to oppose any regulation of the grotesque level of bankers
:21:40. > :21:46.bonuses. It is necessary to protect the rights of 9 euros on states, but
:21:47. > :21:52.not to undermine EU wide efforts to regulate the financial sector,
:21:53. > :21:59.including the border. Liberals stand for a different approach. That's a
:22:00. > :22:06.labor. That is why members of the European Parliament is a opposing
:22:07. > :22:11.the transatlantic trade negotiations was trying to undermine national
:22:12. > :22:18.sovereignty, push the privatsation of public services, drive down
:22:19. > :22:22.standards for workers and consumers, Mr Speaker, human rights should be
:22:23. > :22:26.but part of that treaty. I believe it should be happy feature of all
:22:27. > :22:33.trade treaties. Then, there is the so-called emergency brake. We
:22:34. > :22:37.support the principle of Peart Constitution. However, does the
:22:38. > :22:41.evidence not back-up the claim that an overt benefits are significant
:22:42. > :22:46.draw for workers who come to Britain from the European Union. The changes
:22:47. > :22:50.he promised is secured do nothing to address the real challenges of low
:22:51. > :22:54.pay and prevent undercutting of local rates rates and and is derived
:22:55. > :22:59.pay agreements, they won't put a penny in the pockets of workers and
:23:00. > :23:04.Britain nor will they stop the grotesque exploitation of many
:23:05. > :23:08.migrant workers, or reduce migration to Britain. Will the promised to
:23:09. > :23:13.tell us what discussions he has had to get European roles and place to
:23:14. > :23:17.protect the going rates and to stop agencies bragging and cheap labor,
:23:18. > :23:19.to undercut workers and Britain, while the exploit to undercut
:23:20. > :23:24.workers and Britain, while exploiting the martyr for his? The
:23:25. > :23:27.Dees the two of the EU leaders about outlawing the so-called Buddhist
:23:28. > :23:30.derogation from the edge workers directive for which threatens to
:23:31. > :23:35.undermine one of the key achievements of the last Labour
:23:36. > :23:41.government by allowing them to use them agency staff to undercut other
:23:42. > :23:47.workers? These would have been positive and worthwhile discussions
:23:48. > :23:52.to tackle low-paid, reduce benefit cost and protect workers. We must on
:23:53. > :23:55.all of the speaker, be clear that Britain has benefited from
:23:56. > :24:01.migration. From EU workers coming into wrecking our industry to our
:24:02. > :24:04.other public services to fill gaps. The thousands of doctors and nurses
:24:05. > :24:11.who work in our national health service is saving lives every day.
:24:12. > :24:13.The European Union has delivered protection from workers, it would
:24:14. > :24:18.labor that made sure that Britain's EU membership if work is right to
:24:19. > :24:21.make minimum paid leave and protection on working time is ripe
:24:22. > :24:25.for agency workers, paid maternity and paternity leave, equal pay,
:24:26. > :24:30.anti-discrimination laws, and protection for the work force with
:24:31. > :24:33.companies changed ownership. It was labor working partnership with the
:24:34. > :24:36.parties and unions across Europe that makes of the vehicle promise of
:24:37. > :24:43.the vehicle promise of attempt to diminish workers rights was kept off
:24:44. > :24:47.the agenda of these EU negotiations. Labor has supported, move to reduce
:24:48. > :24:53.child benefits and nonresident children as a reasonable amendment,
:24:54. > :24:56.however we also welcome protection for 20 and so that families have the
:24:57. > :25:03.ability of income. The prominence it still includes consignments. But it
:25:04. > :25:06.a closet and irrelevant to the choice facing the British people.
:25:07. > :25:08.Not one to go I facing the British people. Not one fickle element that
:25:09. > :25:12.is a significant impact on the Kevin Kisner and stay in. We welcome
:25:13. > :25:19.the fact the theatrical sideshow is over. We want to make a real case
:25:20. > :25:28.that will be put by my friend the Member for who really are camping.
:25:29. > :25:34.Labor believes the EU is a model framework for European trade and
:25:35. > :25:38.cooperation in the 21st century. Not only what the EU delivered today but
:25:39. > :25:42.as a framework through which we can achieve much more in the future. To
:25:43. > :25:46.deliver these progressive reforms that I have referred to, when he to
:25:47. > :25:50.work with our partners and Europe to achieve them. Therefore, we must
:25:51. > :25:55.ensure that remain a member. That is the case are going to be making for
:25:56. > :26:00.a Europe that is socially cohesive, a Europe that share the benefit of
:26:01. > :26:04.wealth and prosperity amongst all of its citizens. But as the case we are
:26:05. > :26:07.making as Labour Party, as a trade union movement in this country and
:26:08. > :26:14.we look forward to that public debate. By Magomed have the opposite
:26:15. > :26:18.spin for his contribution. He and I disagree on a lot of things about
:26:19. > :26:22.economic policy about social policy about welfare policy, and did you
:26:23. > :26:25.even disagree on the approach we should take within and Europe as a
:26:26. > :26:29.gas as demonstrated in his the spots, but we do both agree about
:26:30. > :26:34.one thing, which says that Britain should be in there fighting for a
:26:35. > :26:37.good deal for our country. I were a little for the ombudsman because he
:26:38. > :26:42.will be accused of fossils of things. Some of the verism of the
:26:43. > :26:45.unfair. If the Texas courts will be accused of being a member of the
:26:46. > :26:51.establishment. That'll be the most unfair attack of all. What he said
:26:52. > :26:56.about the deal, than they make two points about why I think he should
:26:57. > :27:00.welcome the deal, the first is that implements, as far as I can see him
:27:01. > :27:04.as every pledged on Europe and the Labour manifesto, I'm looking at the
:27:05. > :27:07.former leader. They pledged to complete the former leader. They
:27:08. > :27:11.pledged to complete physical market, they pledged for budget discipline.
:27:12. > :27:16.They said that we will ensure that EU rules protect the interest of 9
:27:17. > :27:20.euros members. He went on and said that people coming to Britain from
:27:21. > :27:23.the EU to look for work, are expected to contribute to our
:27:24. > :27:30.economy and to our society so that we will secure is to immigration and
:27:31. > :27:42.Social Security reform. It also says and I quote," we would work to
:27:43. > :27:48.strengthen,... I'm just reminding my new friend what they said that the
:27:49. > :27:51.election. They said this "We will work just as the influence of
:27:52. > :27:54.national parliaments over Europe in the session by our group for Redcar
:27:55. > :28:01.mechanism for never states." Excellent. Where I think the right
:28:02. > :28:05.of him was unfair is that he's said that this deal was really all about
:28:06. > :28:10.Britain, and not about anyone else. I would point out the Slovakian
:28:11. > :28:13.Prime Minister said good, the myth about every quote didn't have
:28:14. > :28:17.followed. The Hungarian prime minister said that the UK managed to
:28:18. > :28:22.put an end to the practice of creeping power withdraw from
:28:23. > :28:28.national member states. The former president of the commission said
:28:29. > :28:31.that the real consequence of the summit is missionary important.
:28:32. > :28:38.Brussels has an shot a multispeed Europe. This is beneficial to your.
:28:39. > :28:41.Where I disagreed with the ombudsman is I think that these trade deals
:28:42. > :28:47.are good for Britain and is to redo them we the better. I think he's
:28:48. > :28:53.wrong about financial services. That was well received -- and outside of
:28:54. > :28:56.the southern city of London and five. Crucially, what the single
:28:57. > :29:01.market means is that with one establishment and Britain, you can
:29:02. > :29:10.trade throughout the European Union. Booze it and do the job going for
:29:11. > :29:15.Labor government than the care we have all had our difficulties with
:29:16. > :29:18.your. We have all went to the debug the damn. But if I want to get
:29:19. > :29:24.powers in turn, we have all found that because of I love for this
:29:25. > :29:29.house, we found this process trying but at the end of the day we always
:29:30. > :29:38.know when it comes to our economy and prosperity we're
:29:39. > :29:47.will be Prime Minister agree that if he refers to the continental press
:29:48. > :29:52.he will see that he has demonstrated the influence of a British prime
:29:53. > :29:58.minister. He has actually -- it will be difficult for the fellow Prime
:29:59. > :30:01.Minister is to sell to their own political establishment. Does he
:30:02. > :30:05.agree with me that future generations will benefit from some
:30:06. > :30:13.of those concessions, particularly those on and marching the single
:30:14. > :30:17.market, guaranteeing our excess, deregulating, and regular eating
:30:18. > :30:22.trade deals. Is he agree that it is not the politics of fear to point
:30:23. > :30:30.out that those who advocate a no vote don't seem to know what a no
:30:31. > :30:36.vote means? If they continually imply that somehow all of the
:30:37. > :30:40.benefits that flow from Europe in terms of jobs, investment,
:30:41. > :30:44.insecurity, will somehow continue to come here when they have swept away
:30:45. > :30:50.the obligations that previous British governments have always
:30:51. > :30:54.accepted? I am grateful for my right honourable friend says. In terms of
:30:55. > :30:58.what... It has been interesting on what some of the four newspapers
:30:59. > :31:02.have set. I will get you one example. Spanish paper has said that
:31:03. > :31:08.British execs in reality beaches new heights yesterday. No other country
:31:09. > :31:11.to its more acceptance in Europe. I am proud of that fact. We do have a
:31:12. > :31:14.different status in Europe, and that has become more special with the
:31:15. > :31:18.changes that we have made. I think that the point that my friend makes
:31:19. > :31:22.is absolutely right. They recognise that there are disadvantages for
:31:23. > :31:25.being in the European Union, I make no bones about that. I can that be
:31:26. > :31:29.but his people in the eye and say this is what it is going to be like
:31:30. > :31:32.if we state them. It was going to be better because of the deal that we
:31:33. > :31:35.have done. The people that are advising us to leave have to spell
:31:36. > :31:41.out what the consequences of leaving are, and I think that the absolute
:31:42. > :31:45.lodestar is that no country has been able to get full access to the
:31:46. > :31:49.single market without accepting either paying into the EU are
:31:50. > :31:53.accepting free movement. If you don't want to accept those two
:31:54. > :31:57.things, I think you have to start accepting that you are not going to
:31:58. > :32:00.get as good of trade and business position as we have today. People
:32:01. > :32:06.that want to be going to start making up their mind. Do you want a
:32:07. > :32:10.Norway deal? A Switzerland deal, a candidate deal? I don't care which
:32:11. > :32:18.deal you like, but we had to tell people because they deserve an
:32:19. > :32:21.answer. May I begin by thinking the Prime Minister for advanced side of
:32:22. > :32:25.the statement. The referendum choice before the electorate is a huge one
:32:26. > :32:30.which will define our relationship with the rest of Europe, and indeed
:32:31. > :32:36.the nations of the United Kingdom. Scotland is a European nation, and
:32:37. > :32:40.the SNP is a European party. We will campaign positively to remain in the
:32:41. > :32:44.EU, hopefully the Prime Minister can confirm today that he will reject
:32:45. > :32:51.the tactics of project fear and make a positive case for remaining part
:32:52. > :32:54.of a reforming European Union. It is hugely important to be a part of the
:32:55. > :33:00.largest market in the world, and to be able to influence its rules and
:33:01. > :33:09.laws. In rolling matters that the -- it matters that we can co-operate
:33:10. > :33:12.for rights. We should also forget the lessons of European history, and
:33:13. > :33:17.not turn our backs on European neighbours who need help at this
:33:18. > :33:26.time to deal with a huge challenge including migration. Mr Speaker.
:33:27. > :33:31.Public opinion in Scotland, a majority, supports membership of the
:33:32. > :33:37.European Union. Every single Scottish MP -- MP supports
:33:38. > :33:46.. Does the Prime Minister have any idea what the consequences would be
:33:47. > :33:52.of Scotland being taken out of the EU against the wish of the Scottish
:33:53. > :33:57.electorate? I want Scotland and the rest of the UK to remain within the
:33:58. > :34:02.European Union. However, if we are forced out of the EU, I am certain
:34:03. > :34:06.about public in Scotland will to read -- demand a referendum on
:34:07. > :34:13.Scottish independence and we will protect our place in Europe. First
:34:14. > :34:18.of all, I can confirm that I will make a positive case. A case based
:34:19. > :34:22.around there and being stronger, safer, and better off. This is a
:34:23. > :34:26.choice. I think that it is very important that we set out the toys,
:34:27. > :34:30.and the alternative, to the British people. This is the most important
:34:31. > :34:33.decision that people are going to make on a political issue
:34:34. > :34:36.potentially and their lifetimes. I don't want anyone to take a step
:34:37. > :34:39.into the dark without properly thinking through what the
:34:40. > :34:43.consequences are. One thing I actually agree with the honourable
:34:44. > :34:47.gentleman about, is that although Brussels and the institutions can be
:34:48. > :34:50.frustrating, we should never forget what brought this institution into
:34:51. > :34:55.being and the first place. Even at the most frustrating time of talks,
:34:56. > :34:59.you look around the table and think of how these countries fought and
:35:00. > :35:03.killed each other for so long. The dialogue that they take together is
:35:04. > :35:12.positive. In terms of the boat in Scotland, this is one UK boat. Hear,
:35:13. > :35:17.hear! -- vote. My right honourable friend has just spoken about
:35:18. > :35:22.national parliaments, democracy, and our sovereignty. In the Bloomberg
:35:23. > :35:26.speech, he made it clear that he regarded our national parliament as
:35:27. > :35:30.being the root of our democracy. Yesterday, he referred to the
:35:31. > :35:38.Aleutian of sovereignty. -- illusion of sovereignty. Will he explain and
:35:39. > :35:42.repudiate that statement and reference to the question before us
:35:43. > :35:47.in relation to our parliament and democracy in the making of our laws,
:35:48. > :35:51.which at this moment in time under the European committees act, are
:35:52. > :35:57.made by a majority vote of other countries, are introduced by it an
:35:58. > :36:02.unelected commission, and are enforced by a court of justice. This
:36:03. > :36:08.is not excepted the only way of out of that is to lead the European
:36:09. > :36:11.Union? First of all, I have huge respect for my European --
:36:12. > :36:16.honourable friend who has campaigned for many years. One thing that he
:36:17. > :36:19.will welcome is that we are allowing the British people a choice to stay
:36:20. > :36:24.in or lead the European Union. Let me confirm that yes, this parliament
:36:25. > :36:28.is sovereign. We chose to join the the European Union and we can choose
:36:29. > :36:33.to be. But me explain exactly what I meant by saying that it would be the
:36:34. > :36:38.illusion of sovereignty. Let me take one issue. We now have safeguards so
:36:39. > :36:43.that British banks, businesses, cannot be discriminated against if
:36:44. > :36:45.we state in the European Union. They can't be discriminated against
:36:46. > :36:49.because we are not in the euro. Where are we to lead, obviously we
:36:50. > :36:52.would not have that protection. They could discriminate against us, and
:36:53. > :37:04.frankly I think they would discriminate against us. Therefore,
:37:05. > :37:06.and that way, we might feel more sovereign, but it would be an
:37:07. > :37:09.illusion of sovereignty because he would not have the power to protect
:37:10. > :37:11.the businesses that protect jobs of my ability and our country. Despite
:37:12. > :37:17.assurances, it is worth saying that this referendum is about the future
:37:18. > :37:20.of our country not the future of a divided conservative party. With the
:37:21. > :37:25.Prime Minister agree with me that it is also not just about Britain's
:37:26. > :37:30.place in the European Union, but also print's place in the world.
:37:31. > :37:35.President Obama has been crystal clear that if Britain were to be the
:37:36. > :37:40.European Union, it would weaken not strengthen the special relationship.
:37:41. > :37:44.The Indians, Chinese, I'm mystified that we are even risking exit from
:37:45. > :37:48.the European Union. We agree with me that if rain in the teacher wants to
:37:49. > :37:53.stand tall in New Delhi, Beijing, Washington, and other mobile
:37:54. > :37:59.cobbles, Britain must continue to stand tall in our own European
:38:00. > :38:05.neighbourhood. I think that she he is right. We should make this
:38:06. > :38:08.decision ourselves as a sovereign nation in a sovereign people. I
:38:09. > :38:13.think that it is worth listening to our friends and listening to what
:38:14. > :38:17.they think is best for our country. I have to say all of the leaders and
:38:18. > :38:24.politicians I have backed around the world. I can't think of any of our
:38:25. > :38:28.friends, Australia, New Zealand, America, Canada. That one is to be
:38:29. > :38:31.the EU. The only person I think that might want us to leave is Vladimir
:38:32. > :38:37.Putin, and I don't think that that is someone who has asked for what
:38:38. > :38:40.the right honourable friend and colleague said about this
:38:41. > :38:43.referendum. I will make a cheeky point that we are implementing the
:38:44. > :39:01.2010 Lib Dem manifesto by holding it. Hear, hear! LAUGHTER Can I ask
:39:02. > :39:05.my right honourable friend, the Prime Minister, to explain to the
:39:06. > :39:15.House into the country exactly what way this deal returns sovereignty
:39:16. > :39:20.over any field of lawmaking to the Houses of Parliament? This deal
:39:21. > :39:27.brings back some welfare powers, immigration powers, bailout powers,
:39:28. > :39:32.but more than that, because it cards us forever out of ever closer union
:39:33. > :39:35.it means that the ratchet of the European Court taking power away
:39:36. > :39:39.from this country cannot happen in future. To those who worry, and
:39:40. > :39:44.people do worry, that if somehow if we vote to remain and, the
:39:45. > :39:47.consequence could be more action and Brussels to try and change the
:39:48. > :39:51.agreements that we have. We have a lot in this house of commons. No
:39:52. > :39:57.power can be passed from Britain to Brussels without a referendum. We
:39:58. > :40:01.have a better deal, and a special status, we have a chance to make
:40:02. > :40:05.sure that we build on what we have to protect our people. We can
:40:06. > :40:15.enhance our prosperity, and that is the we make. Mr Speaker, let me
:40:16. > :40:22.think the Prime Minister for quoting and implementing parts of the plane
:40:23. > :40:27.15 Lib Dem manifesto. I wanted to go to the big picture question, which
:40:28. > :40:30.is about how we influence things in our national interest. I want to
:40:31. > :40:34.draw the Prime Minister of the powerful and that his statement,
:40:35. > :40:38.which is this question of course by being a member of the European Union
:40:39. > :40:43.we don't always get our own way, but as he said to the right honourable
:40:44. > :40:47.member on all of the major issues, whether it is trade or climate
:40:48. > :40:51.change, or terrorism and security, he can tell us because he has been
:40:52. > :40:56.the Prime Minister what does he believe. We have more influence in
:40:57. > :41:00.the European Union or outside? Mr Speaker, surely the answer is more
:41:01. > :41:04.influence inside the European Union, at outside. That is why I
:41:05. > :41:09.passionately believe must remain in the European Union. I am grateful to
:41:10. > :41:13.the right honourable gentleman for what he says. I can't promise to
:41:14. > :41:16.implement any part of the bigger manifesto, but I am glad to have
:41:17. > :41:21.been an assistant there. I actually agree with him. The big picture is
:41:22. > :41:24.this, when it comes to getting things done in the world that can
:41:25. > :41:28.help keep people safe in our country, a bigger, better deal on
:41:29. > :41:31.climate change, do we get more because we are in the EU? Gas.
:41:32. > :41:37.Making sure that we have sanctions against Iran that work and getting a
:41:38. > :41:41.ban on their nuclear programme, to be deducted the EU and other new
:41:42. > :41:45.bodies? Yes absolutely. Making sure that we stand up to Russian
:41:46. > :41:47.aggression in Ukraine. We have been the linchpin between the European
:41:48. > :41:51.Union and the United States of America in making those ancient
:41:52. > :41:55.town. If we had been outside the European Union, we would have been
:41:56. > :41:57.waiting at the end of the fund to make out with the decisions were
:41:58. > :42:06.going to be. Instead, we were making them and them. That is how we get
:42:07. > :42:12.things done for our people. Mr Speaker, according to the website,
:42:13. > :42:18.there is a letter and peering into mile's times which has been bitten
:42:19. > :42:23.by a Chris Hopkins on behalf of organizations across the UK wishing
:42:24. > :42:27.for us to remain. Chris Hopkins is apparently a civil servant, could be
:42:28. > :42:31.Prime Minister tell us who that is, which department does he work for,
:42:32. > :42:37.and what authority does he have as a civil servant to campaign for the
:42:38. > :42:40.remaining? I can answer very simply. He is a civil servant working and
:42:41. > :42:48.number ten, and his authority comes from me. He is doing an excellent
:42:49. > :42:51.job. This is not a free-for-all. The government has a clear view. The
:42:52. > :42:54.government's view is that we should remain an informed European Union.
:42:55. > :43:00.The civil service is able to support the government and not roll. Of
:43:01. > :43:04.course, members of Parliament, members -- common members are middle
:43:05. > :43:08.to make their own decision. The Cabinet is holding back. We have a
:43:09. > :43:10.full throated view that we should put Ford in front of the British
:43:11. > :43:22.people so that they I am tempted to think -- ask the
:43:23. > :43:32.Prime Minister if bonds have more fun. -- blonds. If does he remember
:43:33. > :43:36.what the government did in 2014 about the European arrest warrant,
:43:37. > :43:39.and the conclusions that the European arrest warrant acts as a
:43:40. > :43:44.deterrent for offenders commit to this country. Katie pointed out to
:43:45. > :43:49.his pension secretary, and can he ask the home Secretary to bring the
:43:50. > :43:51.working pension secretary on all the other reasons why Britain is safer
:43:52. > :43:58.and more secure in the European Union. The European arrest warrant
:43:59. > :44:02.is a good case in point. I think that all of us who do have this
:44:03. > :44:05.concern about sovereignty have are concerned about the arrest warrant,
:44:06. > :44:14.but look at what has happened in practice. In 2005, terrorists tried
:44:15. > :44:18.to bomb our city for a second time. One of them escaped and was arrested
:44:19. > :44:21.and returned to Britain within weeks under the European arrest warrant.
:44:22. > :44:25.Before that, it could have taken years. I think that we can all see
:44:26. > :44:30.that the practical application of these changes definitely keeps us
:44:31. > :44:33.more safe. When it comes to this question of fighting terrorism a
:44:34. > :44:36.cross-border crime, obviously people are going to have different
:44:37. > :44:41.opinions. I would urge people, listen to the head of the former
:44:42. > :44:46.director of MIT. Listen to the head of euro poll. These are people who
:44:47. > :44:52.know what they speak of and are very clear. These measures help us to
:44:53. > :44:55.stay safe. Thank you Mr Speaker. Having spent the best part of recess
:44:56. > :45:08.and the Arctic circle with the Royal Marines, I am extremely conscious of
:45:09. > :45:11.the need to ensure that everyone of our serving military personnel will
:45:12. > :45:15.be able to cast their vote to leave or to remain in the forthcoming EU
:45:16. > :45:18.referendum which the Prime Minister has worked so hard to get onto the
:45:19. > :45:22.statue books for us. Can the Prime Minister please confirm that every
:45:23. > :45:25.serving member of our armed forces wherever they are in the world, will
:45:26. > :45:30.be entitled to vote and can they guarantee that they will receive
:45:31. > :45:35.their ballot papers in good time, and confirm hubby will ensure that
:45:36. > :45:40.everyone will be counted? My honourable friend clearly had a more
:45:41. > :45:44.entertaining recess that I did, but I am rather jealous. There were
:45:45. > :45:47.moments that I wish I was in the Arctic Circle, I can tell you. I
:45:48. > :45:56.believe that the arrangements are absolutely the same. As for a
:45:57. > :45:58.general election. We have for months until the referendum, there is
:45:59. > :46:04.plenty of time to put in place the arrangements that she seeks. I pay
:46:05. > :46:07.credits to be Prime Minister for delivering a reference to the
:46:08. > :46:12.British people. I will remember the time that he came to the -- this
:46:13. > :46:19.house and argue to -- but the referendum. He will know that we are
:46:20. > :46:22.extremely disappointed in these benches that we don't have as a
:46:23. > :46:28.result of this deal control over our sovereignty over our borders, or our
:46:29. > :46:31.finances. He had said to in his statement, and I quote, that is
:46:32. > :46:35.simply not enough for those in the meat side to say that it will be all
:46:36. > :46:40.right and that we will work it out. He wants a definite facts. On the of
:46:41. > :46:46.migrants coming to Britain in the United Kingdom, when will they first
:46:47. > :46:56.begin to be eligible for some of the darker benefits for quick. What we
:46:57. > :47:00.have is a phased approach so that over four years they get access to
:47:01. > :47:04.benefits. No access to benefits to start with, and full access only
:47:05. > :47:08.after four years. That is a huge advance. If I compare that to a lack
:47:09. > :47:11.of certainty that we are being offered for people who want to
:47:12. > :47:16.leave, who can't tell us whether they favour a model like Norway or
:47:17. > :47:22.Switzerland, where if they want a trade deal like Canada, or if
:47:23. > :47:25.someone to reclaim a purely WTO position. We need to know the answer
:47:26. > :47:29.to that, because frankly it is only one me know that that people can
:47:30. > :47:38.make a proper judgement about the security of staying in any dangers
:47:39. > :47:41.of getting out. Last week's decision requires it to be changed to be
:47:42. > :47:47.irreversible and legally binding. When will the ratification procedure
:47:48. > :47:51.began? I am afraid that my right honourable friend is not right. It
:47:52. > :47:54.is already legally binding and universal because this is the
:47:55. > :47:58.decision of 28 governments to reach a legally binding decision that is
:47:59. > :48:04.deposited as a legal document at the UN. This can only be reversed if all
:48:05. > :48:08.28 members, including the UK, were to come to a different decision. The
:48:09. > :48:13.document sets out very clearly that into specific areas, the changes
:48:14. > :48:16.that we need to the treaty on closer union and safeguards for businesses
:48:17. > :48:23.and countries outside the euro zone, will be put into the treaty as well.
:48:24. > :48:30.The mayor of London has been touted of the leader of the lease campaigns
:48:31. > :48:35.said yesterday that the burden will be able to negotiate a large number
:48:36. > :48:43.of shady deals at great speed because we used to run the against
:48:44. > :48:47.Empire and the world. Will he invite the Mayor to wake up to the 21st
:48:48. > :48:52.century in which the European economy is six times longer than
:48:53. > :48:57.endure -- took seven years to get Canada to get a trade deal, and with
:48:58. > :49:02.so much uncertainty in the world's economy it would be deeply disrupted
:49:03. > :49:08.to increase the risk for British exporters, British manufacturers,
:49:09. > :49:11.and British shops? Let me say, where I share the frustration of many of
:49:12. > :49:15.those who are questioning whether B should stay in a separate Britain
:49:16. > :49:20.does need trade deals to be signed rapidly. We do find it frustrating
:49:21. > :49:24.that Europe is not moving faster. The Korean free trade agreement has
:49:25. > :49:28.been excellent, and about to push ahead with Japan, Canada, and
:49:29. > :49:31.America, and China. Because of this document all of the single more
:49:32. > :49:41.likely. Where I think that the right honourable lady has a good point is
:49:42. > :49:43.this. You can't sign trade deals with other countries until you have
:49:44. > :49:45.determined the nature of your relationship with the EU from the
:49:46. > :49:48.outside. That would take at least two years, and then you have to
:49:49. > :49:54.think how long does it take to sign trade deals? The Canada deal is in
:49:55. > :49:58.its seventh year, and it is still not put in place. I worry that this
:49:59. > :50:02.is a recipe for uncertainty and risk. Business is literally would
:50:03. > :50:05.not know what the arrangements were for year after year, and British
:50:06. > :50:13.business and jobs, and our country would suffer as a result. I have
:50:14. > :50:18.pamphlets calling for us to address our role in by a referendum on art
:50:19. > :50:23.EU membership may have escaped the Prime minister's attention. He will
:50:24. > :50:29.understand why I am absolutely delighted that he is now provided us
:50:30. > :50:35.an opportunity to resolve this question for a generation. Does he
:50:36. > :50:38.agree with me that if the country votes to remain we must positively
:50:39. > :50:45.commit to the institutions of the European Union? To best ensure its
:50:46. > :50:50.success and to move on from the growth -- grudging tone that has
:50:51. > :50:54.dominated our discourse. Equally, the establishment that he leads must
:50:55. > :50:58.positively engaged with a potential decision to lead -- leave and
:50:59. > :51:05.undertake reasonable contingency planning now. Let me make a couple
:51:06. > :51:09.of points to my honourable friend. First of all, one of the things of
:51:10. > :51:13.this renegotiation does is that it does address some of the principal
:51:14. > :51:17.grudges, that I think that this country has rightly had. Too much of
:51:18. > :51:21.a single currency club, political union, too much in terms of
:51:22. > :51:24.migration and a lack of respect for welfare system. Not enough
:51:25. > :51:28.competitiveness and removing bureaucracy. Having dealt with some
:51:29. > :51:32.of these grudges, it may, yes, P possible make sure that we get more
:51:33. > :51:38.things done that says -- sued us. I also agree that something with them
:51:39. > :51:42.-- agree with the Mayor of London said that we have high-quality
:51:43. > :51:46.British officials at every part of this organizations that we can help
:51:47. > :51:51.to drive the agenda. He is right. This should settle this issue for
:51:52. > :51:54.generation. He is also right that we will be publishing the alternatives
:51:55. > :51:59.to membership so that people can see what they are, and also people can
:52:00. > :52:05.see that there are plans that can be made. The Prime Minister has said
:52:06. > :52:11.that there has been great to perform grant in the renegotiation, why then
:52:12. > :52:13.did the French president say the European Union has not granted the
:52:14. > :52:19.United Kingdom any special dispositions from its rules in a
:52:20. > :52:22.deal struck? He went on to say that the Prime Minister said that the
:52:23. > :52:26.city of London when I have special status compared to Europe other
:52:27. > :52:29.stock exchanges? Why is this is a difference between what the French
:52:30. > :52:33.president is saying and what the Prime Minister is an? What I would
:52:34. > :52:38.say is that the French Foreign Minister said that the agreement
:52:39. > :52:43.with the British is a recognition that there is a differentiated
:52:44. > :52:48.Europe. I have Artie quantity so backend, Hungarian prime ministers,
:52:49. > :52:53.and the former tying commissioner. Also, Fran ois Hollande said this,
:52:54. > :52:55.we have recognised British position not in singing, not in the former
:52:56. > :52:57.tying commissioner. Also, Fran ois Hollande said this, we have
:52:58. > :53:03.recognised British position not in singing, not in a euro zone. She
:53:04. > :53:07.does not -- but it has Britain has a special status in Europe. While the
:53:08. > :53:16.referendum decision is a matter for the British people, as
:53:17. > :53:20.does the Prime Minister recognised concern from the White House,
:53:21. > :53:27.Pentagon, State Department, and international players that have
:53:28. > :53:33.already Bedminster macro mentioned. That's ready to stand together in an
:53:34. > :53:39.unsafe world? I my honourable friend Nixon point. I don't think
:53:40. > :53:47.I think that it is based on the fact that they believe that Britain will
:53:48. > :53:51.be a stronger partner, more able to get things done, more able to bend
:53:52. > :53:54.at the will of other countries that are in America's directions when it
:53:55. > :53:59.comes to solving great prices. If you ask yourself how do we need is
:54:00. > :54:04.to reduce pirate attacks off Somalia, how would go to try to fix
:54:05. > :54:08.the problems of Libya's border. Yes, we can act unilaterally, and there
:54:09. > :54:15.are valuable partnerships and Nato, but these EU producers are worth a
:54:16. > :54:19.lot to. The views that the pound has slipped to its lowest level in seven
:54:20. > :54:22.years on the news that the honourable member has joined the
:54:23. > :54:26.league campaign, are the just getting a glimpse of the major
:54:27. > :54:33.economic upheaval that could follow if we leave the European Union? Is
:54:34. > :54:36.it's not a timely reminder that the long-term best interest of our
:54:37. > :54:41.country should come ahead of party politicking or personal ambition?
:54:42. > :54:44.What I would say to the right honourable gentleman is that I think
:54:45. > :54:48.that it is important that we looked at in detail the full economic
:54:49. > :54:53.impact of our staying in the EU were choosing to leave the EU. We will be
:54:54. > :54:57.setting out that approach in the weeks and months to come so that
:54:58. > :55:04.people can see what the dangers are, but the risks are, and also at the
:55:05. > :55:12.cases. Don't be, and agriculture, fishing, and energy policies do
:55:13. > :55:18.damage to domestic producers and the... What can we do about these
:55:19. > :55:26.unfairness is if we stay in the European Union? We have made a lot
:55:27. > :55:30.of progress in recent years. We have made big reforms to the common
:55:31. > :55:34.fisheries policy is. I would suggest, I know that he studies
:55:35. > :55:40.these things very closely, of course why we have a deficit with the EU on
:55:41. > :55:44.goods, we have a substantial surplus when it comes to services. We have
:55:45. > :55:48.to think about the future, and how we safeguard those services as well
:55:49. > :55:55.as making sure that opposition and the single market is open. Opening
:55:56. > :55:59.up the EU market in areas like energy and digital services could
:56:00. > :56:04.create hundreds of thousands of jobs in the future. The Prime Minister
:56:05. > :56:09.agree that remaining a part of the EU will give the UK a strong voice
:56:10. > :56:12.in making sure that the completion of that single market happens, and
:56:13. > :56:16.that the best deal for British businesses and jobs? I think that
:56:17. > :56:22.the honourable me lady makes an important part -- point. The
:56:23. > :56:33.declaration on I think that this is an important
:56:34. > :56:37.point. If we work there, not only with the EU continue to exist and
:56:38. > :56:40.have a big impact on our lives, it would probably head and a very
:56:41. > :56:44.different and more protectionist direction. That would actually
:56:45. > :56:49.affect us. And in many ways quite badly. Thank you Mr Speaker. My
:56:50. > :56:55.right honourable friend will know that have been deluged with advice.
:56:56. > :56:59.On the subject of an ever closer union, can he give us a concrete
:57:00. > :57:02.example of a single easy case that will provide a different outcome if
:57:03. > :57:07.the measures that he agreed last week had been agreed at the time?
:57:08. > :57:10.The ever closer union has been mentioned in a series of judgement
:57:11. > :57:15.by the European Court of Justice. There are two things that we have
:57:16. > :57:18.agreed that I think we'll have an impact. Obviously, the most
:57:19. > :57:23.eye-catching is the fact, and I quote from paragraph one on page
:57:24. > :57:26.ten, is that the substance of these agreements will be incorporated in
:57:27. > :57:29.the treaties and the time of his next position. It will make clear
:57:30. > :57:33.that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United
:57:34. > :57:36.Kingdom. That is a call-back for us, but in many ways it is as
:57:37. > :57:40.significant and something that many other countries do not want is the
:57:41. > :57:44.next paragraph that says the references in the treaty and the
:57:45. > :57:49.preambles are creating an ever closer union, do not offer a legal
:57:50. > :57:53.basis for extending the scope of any provision of the treaties or other
:57:54. > :57:58.EU secondary legislation. This redefinition of ever closer union I
:57:59. > :58:01.think is really quite a fundamental change to the way that this
:58:02. > :58:05.organisation has worked. One way to think of it is that there have been
:58:06. > :58:09.two threats to our sovereignty, one from treaty change passing powers
:58:10. > :58:13.for Britain to Brussels, that can't happen now because of our block. The
:58:14. > :58:17.second one is using terms like the ever closer union to make sure that
:58:18. > :58:21.the EU grows its powers. It can't be done now that we have the strength.
:58:22. > :58:28.One of the reason why this deal took whatever it was this because not
:58:29. > :58:30.everybody likes us. It is not meaningless words, it is worth that
:58:31. > :58:36.mean something and matter, and make a difference.
:58:37. > :58:42.The Prime Minister was elected the 37% of the ball. Which means that
:58:43. > :58:46.even a half these people are to vote in, then this referendum can only be
:58:47. > :58:52.one of the faces of people have voted Labour mass and D,... There
:58:53. > :58:57.isn't a reasonable position that these people will be more interested
:58:58. > :59:01.in the of the case of the case for Europe, then the factual arguments
:59:02. > :59:05.of Conservative Party, entertaining though they are. What is the promise
:59:06. > :59:08.of going to put forth that forth that case, that part of the promise
:59:09. > :59:11.of going to put forth that case, that positive case for Europe? --
:59:12. > :59:16.one Prime Minister. I do not want to upset him because I'm hoping is
:59:17. > :59:20.going to be supportive. I will say in the speech that I have made
:59:21. > :59:25.today, I have sent out a positive case. It is the case of someone who
:59:26. > :59:29.is Euro sceptical in the genuine sense, I am sceptical about all
:59:30. > :59:36.organisations. All engagement. We should always question whether
:59:37. > :59:40.organisations work for us and be doubtful about these things. That is
:59:41. > :59:45.what is being sceptical means. I come at this from someone who had
:59:46. > :59:48.their doubts about Brussels and the EU, but I have a clear eyed about
:59:49. > :59:54.what is best for Britain. If others want to argue this from a more
:59:55. > :59:58.positive stance about the nature of the EU, fine. Go for it. It is up to
:59:59. > :00:04.everyone to make their own case. I will make my case in a clear
:00:05. > :00:14.determination of what is in Britain's interest. I think I did
:00:15. > :00:19.that today. Can he tell the House, and his estimations, by how much the
:00:20. > :00:23.welfare changes will reduce immigration for the EU in the coming
:00:24. > :00:28.years could tell anybody looks at this, and nose at the moment you can
:00:29. > :00:31.come from the EU and get up to ?10,000 in and work welfare
:00:32. > :00:36.benefits, and the pressure, knows that that is a big incentive to come
:00:37. > :00:40.to Britain. Many people said we would never be able to get changes
:00:41. > :00:45.to in work benefits, and we have got those changes. If we pass this
:00:46. > :00:51.legislation, were they going to see in 2017 a seven-year period, up to
:00:52. > :00:55.2024 will be restricting these welfare claims. That plus all the
:00:56. > :00:58.changes that the Home Secretary has disappeared, and many cases
:00:59. > :01:02.reversing the CJ judgement. They actually restored to our country
:01:03. > :01:11.powers over welfare, powers over immigration Baek a real difference.
:01:12. > :01:15.Best I can. We also support for the reform and will campaign
:01:16. > :01:19.accordingly. If you're to live, what would happen to mention such as
:01:20. > :01:25.convergent funding which is provided by the amounts of money for poor
:01:26. > :01:29.areas? I think the short answer is if we were to leave the EU, and we
:01:30. > :01:33.would not be able to get those funds, which I made a big difference
:01:34. > :01:40.in parts of Wales, and parts of England. In other parts of our
:01:41. > :01:44.country. I also think, I'm someone who was a kid EU but it out and we
:01:45. > :01:47.achieved that historic decision to cut it, but they wish to befriend
:01:48. > :01:53.that some of the work that the has done, in poor countries and other
:01:54. > :01:57.parts of the EU, is actually have economies to grow. They are
:01:58. > :02:00.customers of ours, and so what is Bulgaria, Romania, or Greece or
:02:01. > :02:09.whatever, the economic development is in our interests. -- the economic
:02:10. > :02:14.development. In January, academic bill to try and protect our children
:02:15. > :02:21.from portable... I pulled the bill this month after discussions, their
:02:22. > :02:24.official public this is that piece of legislation. Thousands of
:02:25. > :02:28.directors saw rescued out from Brussels, every gear, that this
:02:29. > :02:32.government has to comply with. Therefore I will be built. We cannot
:02:33. > :02:34.even protect our own children on something as fundamental as this
:02:35. > :02:41.because we do not have the control without the permission of Brussels.
:02:42. > :02:46.I'll look carefully at the case. I know the state can be frustrated,
:02:47. > :02:52.and every of foam filled miniature and mattresses, we've taken steps
:02:53. > :02:56.over and above what other countries are doing, which has kept our own
:02:57. > :02:59.people safer. The other thing I would say is there are a lot of
:03:00. > :03:04.different figures going around about this. And she looks in the library,
:03:05. > :03:11.borrow from being the topic this, it is much more like 15% of loans that
:03:12. > :03:17.come to us from this direction. -- loss. And I commend the parameter
:03:18. > :03:20.his statement and congratulate him on the success of persuading his EU
:03:21. > :03:29.counterpart is signed up for renegotiation. Will he accept gold
:03:30. > :03:33.renegotiations may have been successful, it is not central to how
:03:34. > :03:37.most people make up their minds? When we belong to a European single
:03:38. > :03:43.market, that is where a digg account figure to this country, is a better
:03:44. > :03:46.in or out? What wear basic facing huge insecurities and badges, I
:03:47. > :03:52.would bet off alongside our friends or outside on our own? And we face
:03:53. > :03:57.huge challenges like climate change and the refugee crisis, I would go
:03:58. > :04:00.working with others or isolated on their own? Will he join with me in
:04:01. > :04:10.our shared ambition for a Britannic Europe and for the pond ambition
:04:11. > :04:13.behind him was what -- blonde. . Renegotiation was aimed at dealing
:04:14. > :04:18.with some of the legitimate businesses that we have had in the
:04:19. > :04:22.UK for many years about the way it was the EU work. We thought it was
:04:23. > :04:27.too much of a single currency club, too much political giving, kind is
:04:28. > :04:31.about competitiveness and not enough production in terms of welfare and
:04:32. > :04:34.immigration. I believe this renegotiation and agreement goes
:04:35. > :04:39.long way to lose dealing with each of those problems. Now the time for
:04:40. > :04:43.the even bigger argument about the future of our country and what sort
:04:44. > :04:48.of country we want to live in poor heart cells, children, and grilled
:04:49. > :04:51.children. Of the points that he makes the printer being shown and
:04:52. > :04:56.wealth, getting things done, I'll try to our membership with Nato
:04:57. > :05:00.matters, our relationship with the UN, and our relationship with the EU
:05:01. > :05:09.gives a force of power to get things done. These fences are rightly proud
:05:10. > :05:17.of our record in the job in unemployment, the... -- these pages.
:05:18. > :05:23.Production in our deficit. During his many meetings, did he find
:05:24. > :05:28.anybody, even a single person, am I suggest we will get better terms on
:05:29. > :05:36.our exit to achieve even better outside the cure Community? --
:05:37. > :05:40.European Community. I think there is goodwill towards Britain, because of
:05:41. > :05:44.the contribution we make to the EU. There is understanding other
:05:45. > :05:49.problems or difficulties that we have had. Therefore, with a huge of
:05:50. > :05:56.the pharmacy and travel and meetings, it has been possible to
:05:57. > :06:01.get a good agreement. I do not believe if we were to take over the
:06:02. > :06:10.table of an eye for a second one, I don't think it is morally feasible.
:06:11. > :06:16., work on the equalization is possible, which discriminated
:06:17. > :06:19.unfairly the British citizens. -- spouse rules. Can ask him to
:06:20. > :06:23.recommend the work of the Minister for John? I would manage to get on
:06:24. > :06:32.the job, he has done six. He still retained his sanity. Almost. On the
:06:33. > :06:38.other big issue, the migration crisis, the British head of your
:06:39. > :06:42.poll said today that there were 5000 GIs were now within the European
:06:43. > :06:47.Union area. Many have come from the external border of the EU. Whether
:06:48. > :06:53.this amount has been given to Greece and Italy in particular is tried
:06:54. > :07:03.until -- tried to do with protecting the border? Identifies remarks about
:07:04. > :07:06.the Europe minister. His eyes were set for a minute there. But he has
:07:07. > :07:13.been done the job for six years as the nation was well. The point about
:07:14. > :07:17.spousal visas as important, for many years, we are given a dismayed to be
:07:18. > :07:21.sorted out and for many years to EU stood back, if you want the
:07:22. > :07:27.collectibles, change her own rules and here we have managed to do that.
:07:28. > :07:32.In terms of the help that were given to Italy and Greece, the discussions
:07:33. > :07:36.and Brussels were very intense because the numbers really do have
:07:37. > :07:43.to be reduced radically and that is why I strongly support and Britain
:07:44. > :07:46.will contribute to the maritime operation the last song Nato support
:07:47. > :07:51.as well as EU support. To try and bring together Greece and Turkey
:07:52. > :07:55.with a comma information picture, common intelligence what is
:07:56. > :07:59.happening. These, banks operating in the area. Without that, there will
:08:00. > :08:05.not be the right chance of getting the situation under control. For
:08:06. > :08:12.decades, British ministers who had involvement with Europe at, to
:08:13. > :08:19.exaggerate to affluence we bring and conceal our inability to achieve
:08:20. > :08:21.British interests. Is that why it took freedom of information request
:08:22. > :08:28.to established over the last two decades, Britain has voted against
:08:29. > :08:34.72 measures in the European Council? And has been defeated 72 times, and
:08:35. > :08:43.the patient of the accelerating? It would make the mistake to take the
:08:44. > :08:48.risk of remaining in the EU, how many defeats that the Prime Minister
:08:49. > :08:57.is suspect in the next two decades? The frustrations and challenges of
:08:58. > :09:05.being a member of his organisation, there are challenges. The research
:09:06. > :09:10.that I have seen his deep analysis of whether a country that its
:09:11. > :09:15.position, and shows that Britain does in 90% of cases, which even I
:09:16. > :09:19.think operates the Germans. I did for myself what we were hard we can
:09:20. > :09:27.get things done. -- I have seen for myself. If we are outside the single
:09:28. > :09:30.market, the same countries, without us, will write the rules. We will
:09:31. > :09:35.then have to comply with them, when we show that the government would
:09:36. > :09:37.have no say over what they are. That to me is the illusions of
:09:38. > :09:45.sovereignty rather than real sovereignty. I'll accept the
:09:46. > :09:51.symbolism of removing the phrase ever closer union. I do think the
:09:52. > :09:59.Prime Minister opposes House to give at least one two examples of where
:10:00. > :10:03.the sole legal basis for a decision. I am happy to read to her, but it
:10:04. > :10:14.has been used in a series of cases before us. That's happy to write to
:10:15. > :10:20.her. On the question of Article 50, cannot first one out that it did not
:10:21. > :10:25.exist in the treatise until the Lisbon Treaty which my friend used
:10:26. > :10:29.to oppose and not he agrees with. Can I point out there are many ways
:10:30. > :10:35.of leading the European gigging, that might article 50. Date that the
:10:36. > :10:39.power to bind himself and to the Article 50 from work, can he give it
:10:40. > :10:43.some thought rather than committed himself to a policy that he does not
:10:44. > :10:50.support? The point I would make to him is that like it or like it not,
:10:51. > :10:53.I don't particularly like it, but the Treaty of the European and you
:10:54. > :10:58.can set style of the way that you leave. It is called article 50. --
:10:59. > :11:03.European Union. I think it should read it. I find it odd that if you
:11:04. > :11:08.want to leave, leave. If you want to stay, stay. But the idea of going to
:11:09. > :11:10.leave the try and half day, I don't think the British public will
:11:11. > :11:14.understand it, I don't think our European partners would understand,
:11:15. > :11:21.I'm at a loss to understand it. I thought we wanted a referendum to
:11:22. > :11:28.make a choice. Posted by Minister think that President Clinton would
:11:29. > :11:33.drop the secret... -- President Putin, would he rather see Bridget
:11:34. > :11:40.Breakaway for the EU and to seek your potentially break apart? I
:11:41. > :11:45.think it is true that tournament presented like to see disunity in
:11:46. > :11:50.the West. -- Vladimir Putin. Whether it is about actions of Sarah
:11:51. > :11:58.Corporation conduct another issue. There's no in my mind -- doubt in my
:11:59. > :12:03.mind, that the allies that there is between the Baltic states, Poland,
:12:04. > :12:07.who see it first-hand the problems being created by Putin, and
:12:08. > :12:11.countries like Britain is always in my view should stand up to
:12:12. > :12:16.aggression. But that a life together with the French and Germans, and has
:12:17. > :12:19.made your's stronger and if we were not there, I don't think you can
:12:20. > :12:25.guarantee that would be the case. I do not believe that is an
:12:26. > :12:31.overstepping of the position. In October, Lord Rove said nothing is
:12:32. > :12:36.going to happen and become how to cure in the first five years
:12:37. > :12:40.probably. There will be no change. I hope my friend finds that ritual
:12:41. > :12:43.from the head of the campaign to stay in. What he agree that it is
:12:44. > :12:46.inevitable after the Vote Leave, there will be a period of informal
:12:47. > :12:51.discussions before the formal process is driven? I have to say I
:12:52. > :12:56.have great respect for my Honorable friend who is leading a campaign
:12:57. > :13:00.with great vim and vigour and passion. But surely if you want
:13:01. > :13:06.Britain to leave the EU, you want things to change, rather than not
:13:07. > :13:09.change. The truth is that section, article 50 is the only way to leave
:13:10. > :13:15.and what it says is that if you spend two years negotiating your
:13:16. > :13:21.status outside of the EU, and that they cannot be agreed, at the end of
:13:22. > :13:26.the figures, you leave. That is all of the 27 members agree to extend.
:13:27. > :13:28.That's unless. If you do not have a deal, he don't know what your
:13:29. > :13:33.relationship is with a single market, with a 50 days countries
:13:34. > :13:39.covered by the Trader Joe's, or very much. My argument is that do not
:13:40. > :13:42.take that risk. Stay in a before European Union. But the delayed
:13:43. > :13:51.campaign will have to do is explain what it is that you want was to
:13:52. > :13:55.left. -- the lead campaign. Cannot they be Prime Minister for his
:13:56. > :14:04.detailed statement. Does he accept that with Arlen and -- Ireland
:14:05. > :14:07.connected, to a UK exit of the European you can would have
:14:08. > :14:15.replications for Ireland, North or South. There may be some initial
:14:16. > :14:21.financial savings for the UK, but huge losses are likely to follow. We
:14:22. > :14:26.see them impact today are sterling. Yeah, we know that the financial
:14:27. > :14:31.impact would be negative and slow. Mr Speaker, with recent polls
:14:32. > :14:35.suggesting that 75% of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the
:14:36. > :14:39.EU, as the Prime Minister agree with me that a UK exit from the EU will
:14:40. > :14:42.have detrimental impact on Northern Ireland's economy and is one peace
:14:43. > :15:01.process? In terms of Northern Ireland,
:15:02. > :15:05.everybody and other islands have a vote, every vote counted. I would
:15:06. > :15:08.urge people to exercise their democratic right. I look forward to
:15:09. > :15:13.going to another island as part of the campaign to talk directly to
:15:14. > :15:18.people why I believe we should stay. And I listened that some people
:15:19. > :15:23.believe that our European neighbours want to do is down at every turn, is
:15:24. > :15:28.a credible to suppose that the selfsame people, if we were to
:15:29. > :15:32.leave, could believe that our phone partners, would follow themselves to
:15:33. > :15:36.give us free access to the single market among which is the vital
:15:37. > :15:45.foundation for our business and industry to trek across the world?
:15:46. > :15:49.-- trade across. I feel that very deeply, because having time to build
:15:50. > :15:52.up the good will for a special status for breaded, within the EU
:15:53. > :16:04.which we have achieved, I do not believe that will would be dead...
:16:05. > :16:10.-- be there. The option of that risk is to stay in the reform EU rather
:16:11. > :16:18.than to take the leap in the dark. Have the Prime Minister Alize the
:16:19. > :16:21.grave consequences for the UK -- outlined the grave, but perhaps
:16:22. > :16:25.reflect on the wisdom of the leadership decisions that led us to
:16:26. > :16:31.be facing those consequences in a few months' time. Besides I want to
:16:32. > :16:34.leave hapless sovereignty and control at the heart of the
:16:35. > :16:41.arguments. That's the size. Does he agree with me that it a position
:16:42. > :16:46.where we are a decision-maker at the timetable, will be moving from
:16:47. > :16:49.position of being a rule-making to a protected and that is not
:16:50. > :16:55.sovereignty, it is not controlled, and it is not the best future for
:16:56. > :17:00.the United Kingdom? I do not agree with what the gentleman said at the
:17:01. > :17:05.first part. I think it is time for a referendum. I think we had too many
:17:06. > :17:09.traders passing through this house, where there was no referendum.
:17:10. > :17:14.Whether it was more strict under the Conservatives or Lisbon, under
:17:15. > :17:17.labor. I think that sack People's faith and our democracy and our
:17:18. > :17:22.accountability. I remember the moment when Tony Blair stood here
:17:23. > :17:26.and said let that of the joint and all the rest and without a
:17:27. > :17:29.referendum is coming. Then it was taken away. It is right to have this
:17:30. > :17:32.referendum and we should not be frightened of asking the people
:17:33. > :17:37.interested the people, but I agree with him that if you want to have to
:17:38. > :17:40.question how it would have greater control, greater influence, it is by
:17:41. > :17:46.being in there helping to make the rules, rather than outside simply
:17:47. > :17:50.taking the rules. Can congratulate the Prime Minister for securing a
:17:51. > :17:55.written the special status that he talked about earlier? Does he agree
:17:56. > :18:00.with me, with the debate so far is that those who want leave your are
:18:01. > :18:04.completely unable to agree on an alternative arrangement for breaded
:18:05. > :18:13.and the EU, that we get the same sort of economic benefits that his
:18:14. > :18:18.negotiation skills? What today's discussions have revealed not only
:18:19. > :18:23.that there is no agreement about what Britain by a future looks like
:18:24. > :18:28.outside of the EU, but there is an agreement about whether we really
:18:29. > :18:31.should leave, some that people wanted to both league in over a
:18:32. > :18:35.different bill. That's not an agreement about how we should leave.
:18:36. > :18:39.What the Article 50, or some other process that can be followed.
:18:40. > :18:41.Unclear, the only way I leave. What the Article 50, or some other
:18:42. > :18:44.process that can be follow. Unclear, the only way of event is to article
:18:45. > :18:50.50. There is no second renegotiation, second referendum,
:18:51. > :18:57.the torch is in or mean. -- the choice is in or out. Can the Prime
:18:58. > :19:01.Minister tell us beyond the areas which are specifically addressed in
:19:02. > :19:07.the deal agreed last week, and which ways his government plans have been
:19:08. > :19:12.constrained by European legislation? There's no doubt that we do face
:19:13. > :19:16.concerns because the way the single market works is a common set of rows
:19:17. > :19:21.that has to be agreed. As it's been said, was and I was cannot wait.
:19:22. > :19:29.That's a common set up rules. There are occasions where we lose a vote,
:19:30. > :19:32.and we are concerned by EU regulation and legislation. The
:19:33. > :19:38.question that they would be to put in a very hard-headed politics and
:19:39. > :19:43.if you are outside, does that give you the full control that you seek?
:19:44. > :19:45.Does not produce up to trade with Europe and accepted rules, don't
:19:46. > :19:52.think I've done is remove yourself from the conversation and take away
:19:53. > :19:57.your vote. Common sense that this will set up the issue of her
:19:58. > :20:00.generation. I am blessed with five grandchildren. I believe it is in
:20:01. > :20:05.their blessed interest that I should be voted to remain within the EU.
:20:06. > :20:11.That's part of. There is another generation that is some concern.
:20:12. > :20:15.Thousands of people are paid UK taxes, an excellent insurance over
:20:16. > :20:19.the years. They are now living in other parts of Europe. My right
:20:20. > :20:23.honourable friend knows that I represent the interests of the
:20:24. > :20:31.people. They're very frightened, and can he tell them what will happen if
:20:32. > :20:34.we leave the European Union? I am grateful that he has decided to
:20:35. > :20:38.support the case for remaining in the EU. I think he raises an
:20:39. > :20:42.important point. We often look at free Will Win in terms of people's
:20:43. > :20:46.decisions to come here. We do also need to think about the many British
:20:47. > :20:50.people would have chosen to work, live, retire and other parts of the
:20:51. > :20:54.EU. The short answer to this question is that I can tell the
:20:55. > :20:58.window be like if the state. But I cannot be absolutely certain if we
:20:59. > :21:02.leave. It would depend on a complex and difficult glaciation cannot be
:21:03. > :21:05.there be a lot of uncertainty. I would urge other people or the right
:21:06. > :21:10.to vote to make that exercise that right and we should think about
:21:11. > :21:13.people in Gibraltar, who are all applicable in this referendum.
:21:14. > :21:24.That's able to vote. To speak plainly about what he
:21:25. > :21:30.believes is right for our country. As it develops the argument, when
:21:31. > :21:35.the bear and mind that nine American people voted Labour and general
:21:36. > :21:38.election? And the sympathies and values don't actually live with his
:21:39. > :21:46.party and a need to develop a conversation with them as well. I
:21:47. > :21:52.take on his point. This is not a party political issue. This is not
:21:53. > :21:55.something for all people, all voters to get involved in. They might vote
:21:56. > :21:59.conservative and a general election, but decide to vote in, or out, and
:22:00. > :22:06.dinner with labor a liberal Democrat. -- ditto. This should be
:22:07. > :22:09.added to the -- giant democratic society and accountability. We are
:22:10. > :22:16.asking question about something, this is a new sovereign decision by
:22:17. > :22:20.the British people. That huge sovereign decision. I would say to
:22:21. > :22:25.Labour voters to decide what you think that government, that rule, or
:22:26. > :22:27.that law. Think about the future of your country, and think about the
:22:28. > :22:36.big picture and then make the choice. I am always nice. The Prime
:22:37. > :22:39.Minister said that crime should be at the forefront of our thoughts
:22:40. > :22:43.when we are putting in the referendum. And the Prime Minister
:22:44. > :22:51.tell us how many crimes were committed in the UK by EU nationals
:22:52. > :22:55.in the given for free movement of people came into effect, and how
:22:56. > :23:00.many were committed by the EU nationals last year, and how many of
:23:01. > :23:03.the EU nationals were imbued in the UK prison system before free but
:23:04. > :23:09.when of people came into operation and how many there are now? I'm sure
:23:10. > :23:12.he has that information. Debbie has not got it, perhaps he can write to
:23:13. > :23:17.me with the information. That's if he doesn't have it. I do not have
:23:18. > :23:21.all the figures, but I can say because of a very harboured by the
:23:22. > :23:27.Home Secretary, will be able to Barbara, and so, too better. That
:23:28. > :23:32.hardware. We are solving problems that the EasyJet has put another
:23:33. > :23:37.way. As for prisoners, the prisoner transfer agreement that was
:23:38. > :23:41.negotiated will mean that we can get for prisoners out of our prisons and
:23:42. > :23:50.into the jails. Outside of the EU, they'll be far more difficult to
:23:51. > :23:55.achieve. -- that will be. I don't remember who was selected the
:23:56. > :24:08.European Parliament in 1979. -- I think I was the only member. Without
:24:09. > :24:15.a lot more sense than itself. We were on opposite sides. I was in
:24:16. > :24:20.favour of a gift membership, his father was in favour of membership.
:24:21. > :24:25.-- against membership. I changed my mind. At the two gears in the
:24:26. > :24:35.European Parliament, I saw the benefits. -- after two years. We're
:24:36. > :24:42.talking about Senate. -- Senate. Were talking about restructuring the
:24:43. > :24:47.social effect. And people work in the auto industry. I think
:24:48. > :24:53.anonymously from working with people and other nationalities, the hope is
:24:54. > :25:00.to emphasise again and again the importance of internationalism. I
:25:01. > :25:19.think it for her honesty. -- bank. I remember campaigning... Head be
:25:20. > :25:25.sitting here and we would have been able to hear from him and for the
:25:26. > :25:34.Maryland. That she would be. -- Mayor of London. Why does the Prime
:25:35. > :25:41.Minister Bank on so much? -- the bank on? So much about these
:25:42. > :25:48.European migration, after the polls have a wonderful record of, care and
:25:49. > :25:54.offer benefits. As a much more worried that Mickens, born an
:25:55. > :25:57.integer from North Africa and the Middle East that the diamonds have
:25:58. > :26:01.any idea what proportion of these people were exercise their right to
:26:02. > :26:05.come here and once they get the German passports? If we remain in,
:26:06. > :26:14.the as useful as a Macedonian strain to stop them. -- strain to stop. I
:26:15. > :26:20.promised to go on for the next four months, and to go on considerably
:26:21. > :26:24.less. I think he makes a good point. We have the advantage of being
:26:25. > :26:30.outside second, so that foreign nationals, to other countries don't
:26:31. > :26:33.have the automatic access to the UK. But he stopped coming in. As what
:26:34. > :26:38.would you European citizens who we think are ever of the country. The
:26:39. > :26:44.factual answer to this question is if you look at refugees and others
:26:45. > :26:49.who have arrived in Germany, after ten years, only around 242% have
:26:50. > :27:00.German citizenship. The evidence to date is there is no huge risk of
:27:01. > :27:04.early to the table. -- 2.2 oppression. The more likely to have
:27:05. > :27:07.are involved to try and stop the flow question the flow of migrants
:27:08. > :27:13.in the first place and would have ingrained now. With this is the lead
:27:14. > :27:18.operation between Greece and Italy is partly because of the UK
:27:19. > :27:21.intervention into this debate. Taken by the French, with the times,
:27:22. > :27:28.because around the table would get things done. Thus the Prime Minister
:27:29. > :27:32.agreed with me that the claim that staying with the European you can
:27:33. > :27:35.would make an attack on our shores more likely, is deeply irresponsible
:27:36. > :32:54.and factually wrong? The Prime Minister has said in a
:32:55. > :32:59.statement that we are to make a final decision. So the one sentence
:33:00. > :33:05.of the statement I agree with a final decision to be made in June as
:33:06. > :33:09.to whether we stay with the valve body on whether we leave and make
:33:10. > :33:17.our own pot -- pass. As a government's policy basically always
:33:18. > :33:22.keep a fair punishment the force? -- finding something worse. Obviously,
:33:23. > :33:26.my friend and I have a profound disagreement about this issue. I
:33:27. > :33:30.respect his views because he has held them in good faith for many
:33:31. > :33:36.years. And until my view is that we need to form for years. I'm sure we
:33:37. > :33:41.can respect each other and the months of debate ahead. Don't think
:33:42. > :33:45.I would say by doing to take issue with my Honorable friend is about
:33:46. > :33:49.manifesto delivered. On a run through whole thing but we said we
:33:50. > :33:54.will legislate for a referendum and we delivered. Which I will protect
:33:55. > :33:58.our economy from the eurozone, and wanted to pursue power for was from
:33:59. > :34:02.Brussels cover in the sediment. One problem is to work together to block
:34:03. > :34:06.unwanted legislation covering the settlement. The one and two ever
:34:07. > :34:10.closer union. We'll will ensure that defence policies national security
:34:11. > :34:15.remains firmly under British national control. We assisted the EU
:34:16. > :34:18.migrants want to claim tax credits must live it here and contribute it
:34:19. > :34:23.for four years covered in the settlement. Time and time again, we
:34:24. > :34:27.also noticed manifesto and I'm proud of them in. I'm proud of the team to
:34:28. > :34:31.put together and implement the good. I say let's have this vigorous
:34:32. > :34:32.argument, let's not pretend that we have not delivered the manifesto
:34:33. > :35:04.that was in front of. The bosses of those companies aren't
:35:05. > :35:07.saying that very publicly, I would invite the Prime Minister during
:35:08. > :35:12.this election campaign to encourage them to talk to those people whose
:35:13. > :35:16.jobs depend on that investment, to say what would happen if we left
:35:17. > :35:25.Europe, because they tell me they would leave Britain. My message to
:35:26. > :35:30.businesses is if you have a view, make sure you tell people and talk
:35:31. > :35:39.to customers, and your suppliers. Above all, talk to your employees,
:35:40. > :35:43.and your staff. This issue is so important, the business voice, large
:35:44. > :35:47.and small, is very much in favour of Britain staying. Many of them have
:35:48. > :35:52.said generous things about this renegotiation because they recognise
:35:53. > :35:54.the dangers, particularly in the area of safeguarding ourselves
:35:55. > :35:58.against distillation, because we aren't in the Euro, given that I
:35:59. > :36:02.hope business and enterprise will speak clearly in the next few
:36:03. > :36:11.months. Much of the protection of the Euro outs in this is set out.
:36:12. > :36:16.But this requires nothing, as far as I can tell, nothing more than the
:36:17. > :36:21.discussion to be held about the UK's concerns. Not even European Council.
:36:22. > :36:28.It leaves Eurozone members free to enforce its will bike UMT. So, can
:36:29. > :36:33.the Prime Minister explain what beyond the discussion, which can be
:36:34. > :36:37.ignored, has been achieved by the safeguard mechanism -- QMV. I can
:36:38. > :36:42.answer that, is an important question. There are two things, it
:36:43. > :36:47.is a set of principles set out on section A on economic governance,
:36:48. > :36:50.these principles of non-discrimination, no cost, no
:36:51. > :36:53.disadvantage, and crucially in paragraph four, a real concern to
:36:54. > :36:58.the Bank of England, I know it will be a concern to his committee, is
:36:59. > :37:02.making clear that the financial stability of member states whose
:37:03. > :37:06.currency is not the Euro is matter for their own authorities and
:37:07. > :37:10.budgetary responsibilities. These principles are very important. What
:37:11. > :37:14.I think is exciting is that not only have these been setup for the first
:37:15. > :37:18.time, not only has Europe accepted for the first time that there are
:37:19. > :37:22.other currencies in the EU but these changes will be incorporated into
:37:23. > :37:28.the treaties. The mechanism, if you like, is over and above new way of
:37:29. > :37:31.making sure issues are raised, should we want to, at the level of
:37:32. > :37:35.the European Council, a protection we don't have today, but I think
:37:36. > :37:39.making the treaty, making the principle is part of the treaty,
:37:40. > :37:45.already an international legally binding decision, is hugely
:37:46. > :37:48.important and people on behalf of financial services and the Bank of
:37:49. > :37:53.England and others, they will recognise this is important progress
:37:54. > :37:57.for Britain. There is still plenty that divides myself and the Prime
:37:58. > :38:01.Minister politically, but on this, in the national interest, I think
:38:02. > :38:07.he's right to be campaigning for Britain to remain in the European
:38:08. > :38:11.Union. I want to put a quote to him, leaving would cause at least some
:38:12. > :38:15.business uncertainty, while embroiling the government for
:38:16. > :38:19.several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements. So
:38:20. > :38:25.diverging energy from the real problems of this country, that was
:38:26. > :38:31.on February the 7th. The Mayor of London was right to seven days ago,
:38:32. > :38:36.wasn't he? What I would say to the honourable gentleman and everyone is
:38:37. > :38:39.that we have really got to examine what these alternatives are, and how
:38:40. > :38:44.much uncertainty there would be, how long these processes would take. I
:38:45. > :38:47.think therein lies the importance of this decision, for businesses,
:38:48. > :38:53.families, people's prospects as well up and down the country. Does the
:38:54. > :38:57.promised a group of me that one of the key benefits of his agreement is
:38:58. > :39:01.to give legal clarity about Britain's special status within the
:39:02. > :39:03.EU? You would be aware of the uncertainties that have been for
:39:04. > :39:09.those advising the government about the law in the past, does he also
:39:10. > :39:14.agree that it is wrong to say that it is not legally binding, it is.
:39:15. > :39:22.And it is irreversible, unless we choose otherwise. There is a long
:39:23. > :39:26.opinion by Professor Sir Alan Dashwood, the leading EU
:39:27. > :39:33.constitutional lawyer in this country, it can be read on the
:39:34. > :39:35.Henderson Chambers website. I'm grateful for what my right
:39:36. > :39:40.honourable friend says given that he was a senior law officer in the
:39:41. > :39:44.government. I listen carefully to what the member for Beaconsfield has
:39:45. > :39:50.said, they could not have been more clear on this point, I've read the
:39:51. > :39:54.judgment by Lord Dashwood and the government 's own legal advice. They
:39:55. > :39:58.say it is legally binding and reversible. People who question it
:39:59. > :40:06.should look at the Danish protocol, that's been working well for 23
:40:07. > :40:13.years. Does the Prime Minister share my concerns and worries that after
:40:14. > :40:18.70 years of peace and prosperity, any nation begins to take it rather
:40:19. > :40:24.for granted, and take the institutions that created that peace
:40:25. > :40:31.and prosperity? I was born on the August weekend in London at the
:40:32. > :40:38.height of the Battle of Britain. My generation, and many people in this
:40:39. > :40:41.country with longer memories, note that peace and prosperity aren't
:40:42. > :40:46.guaranteed, unless you work together across Europe to maintain them day
:40:47. > :40:50.after day, month after month, year after year. I agree with the
:40:51. > :40:53.honourable gentleman, it is worth remembering why this came about in
:40:54. > :40:57.the first place. The appalling bloodshed on our continent. For
:40:58. > :41:04.people of my generation, very much postwar children, we should remember
:41:05. > :41:10.that and look afresh at the institutions of the EU, and try to
:41:11. > :41:13.make sure that this organisation works for this century, rather than
:41:14. > :41:17.the last century. That's part of what the agreement is about. I
:41:18. > :41:23.remember the meeting we once had at the Cloth Hall in Ypres, you cannot
:41:24. > :41:25.sit in that building without thinking of the slaughter that
:41:26. > :41:31.European countries have engaged in in the past. May I to salute my
:41:32. > :41:35.right honourable friend for honouring his commitment to the
:41:36. > :41:39.British people, to offer them a referendum? And extraordinary
:41:40. > :41:44.stamina over the last week or so, where we've been to join the recess.
:41:45. > :41:50.For me, this is not the fundamental reform we were promised. We've
:41:51. > :41:54.learned a lot about security in the last few weeks, would he not agree
:41:55. > :41:59.with me that the security of Europe is dependent on Nato, not the EU? It
:42:00. > :42:04.is Nato that is protecting us from further incursion by President
:42:05. > :42:10.Putin, and we do Nato no good by suggesting that somehow the EU has
:42:11. > :42:14.some competence in this area? I have huge respect for my right honourable
:42:15. > :42:21.friend, he served brilliantly in the last garment helping to strengthen
:42:22. > :42:26.defences, perhaps ten or 15 years ago, -- government. Whether it is
:42:27. > :42:31.our partnership with America, not the EU, considering defence and
:42:32. > :42:35.security in the run today, the way we fight terrorism yes it depends on
:42:36. > :42:42.our relationships and what we do through the EU. I see it daily
:42:43. > :42:46.through the exchange of information. The agreement we reached at this
:42:47. > :42:51.council, to make sure that there is a strong Nato mission, to try and
:42:52. > :42:55.help the situation between Greece and Turkey, it is a Nato mission
:42:56. > :42:59.backing up his point, but where was some of the conversation going on
:43:00. > :43:02.about it? Where were the Germans, British and French sitting together
:43:03. > :43:07.and working out what assets we could supply? How to get real power into
:43:08. > :43:12.it? It was done around the EU Council table. The fact is we need
:43:13. > :43:17.both to keep safe in the modern world, fight terrorism, criminality,
:43:18. > :43:22.stand up to evil around the world and use all organisations, not just
:43:23. > :43:26.some of them. The Prime Minister has played fast and loose with our
:43:27. > :43:33.cultural, social and economic future in Europe for a consider is -- for a
:43:34. > :43:37.series of concessions. Will the Prime Minister now guarantee that
:43:38. > :43:41.his government's case for remaining in the EU will stop appeasing them,
:43:42. > :43:49.and will instead focus on the many positives of the EU. Can he commit
:43:50. > :43:52.to ensuring that the public has sufficient information to make a
:43:53. > :43:57.positive and informed choice? We have certainly been whiting a
:43:58. > :44:04.positive campaign, and in that there is a series of documents, some were
:44:05. > :44:08.mandated by the other place, when they had a referendum bill, we have
:44:09. > :44:12.two set out rights and obligations of things you get out of, and
:44:13. > :44:18.obligations you have in the EU. We will be talking about the economic
:44:19. > :44:21.case. All of those issues, I would say to those interested in some
:44:22. > :44:26.cultural or educational arguments, come forward to. We need from voices
:44:27. > :44:29.from universities, they have a lot to say on this issue, they get a lot
:44:30. > :44:35.out of Europe. Cultural organisations should be speaking out
:44:36. > :44:40.as well. Nick Herbert. Anti-Mr Speaker, would my right honourable
:44:41. > :44:44.friend agree with me that when this country in our national interest
:44:45. > :44:48.makes an international agreement of any kind, it may involve a loss of
:44:49. > :44:55.sovereignty, that may be the case through any trade deal, through Nato
:44:56. > :44:59.rules, and on the single most important issue that this House of
:45:00. > :45:04.Commons could take, which is whether or not to engage in military action.
:45:05. > :45:09.We are treaty bound by Nato to go to the defence under article five of a
:45:10. > :45:13.country, a fellow member, under armed attack. That obliges us, in
:45:14. > :45:17.that sense, we've lost sovereignty. That is because we believe it is in
:45:18. > :45:23.the interests of the country to enter that agreement and has made us
:45:24. > :45:26.safer. If the claim of sovereignty and the loss of sovereignty were the
:45:27. > :45:29.trump card, would it not in fact be the case that all of those
:45:30. > :45:34.international agreements would need to be torn up? I think my right
:45:35. > :45:38.honourable friend makes an important point, if you're only determination
:45:39. > :45:43.was never to seek technical sovereignty committee would never
:45:44. > :45:50.join any organisations or do a trade ill, or be a member of the IMF World
:45:51. > :45:56.Bank -- trade deal. The question is what maximises power, influence and
:45:57. > :45:59.ability to get things done. As the Transport Secretary put brilliantly
:46:00. > :46:04.in the cabinet meeting, I would love to live in Utopia, but I expect the
:46:05. > :46:09.EU is that as well. You don't abolish the EU by leaving it, you
:46:10. > :46:13.simply cut yourself off from something, and therefore, possibly
:46:14. > :46:17.make yourself less powerful rather than more powerful. May I gently
:46:18. > :46:24.remind the house that people who wish to take part in the exchanges
:46:25. > :46:28.should have been here at the start, and remain throughout. People who
:46:29. > :46:32.have gone in and out of the chamber and may have come back in again
:46:33. > :46:36.should not then be standing. That's pretty much in breach of traditions
:46:37. > :46:41.of the house. We must be clear on that. Mr Ronnie Campbell. The main
:46:42. > :46:52.policy for me was a close political union. If this could be voted to
:46:53. > :47:00.upstate -- stay in the union on the 23rd, could we put it to a treaty,
:47:01. > :47:04.be written into a treaty? It is already an agreement and will
:47:05. > :47:10.shortly be deposited at the UN as an international law decision, and
:47:11. > :47:14.therefore it would already be, by then, legally binding and
:47:15. > :47:18.irreversible. When it comes to getting out of an ever closer union
:47:19. > :47:22.and redefining a closer union, I think it is so important it has to
:47:23. > :47:25.go into the treaties. The agreement here is when those treaties change
:47:26. > :47:31.they will be written into those treaties. If you like, there's a
:47:32. > :47:36.double lock on this. A vital point. John Baron? I suspect this is
:47:37. > :47:40.tinkering, it is not fundamental change, the red card is not a veto,
:47:41. > :47:49.it won't stop a majority of the EU in forcing unwanted taxes. Should
:47:50. > :47:54.the Prime Minister accept the possibility that the red card can be
:47:55. > :48:01.turned against us? It could not stop, or it would stop, rather, UK
:48:02. > :48:07.sponsored initiatives being blocked by the majority of the EU,
:48:08. > :48:12.initiatives that could be in our best interests, like access and
:48:13. > :48:16.further enhancement of the single market? Look, I don't overstate the
:48:17. > :48:21.red card, what it is is a new mechanism not to delay but properly
:48:22. > :48:26.block new initiatives available for National Polmont, should they want
:48:27. > :48:31.to avail themselves of it. For me, it's another thing that makes this
:48:32. > :48:37.organisation more democratically applicable to national Polmont is.
:48:38. > :48:43.On some occasions it may work against, I suppose it is
:48:44. > :48:45.accountability. The point is this organisation will be more democratic
:48:46. > :48:50.because of my decision rather than less.
:48:51. > :48:59.Mr Speaker, since the Prime Minister seems to be getting none from his
:49:00. > :49:06.own side, can I commend him from coming right to cancel a Michael
:49:07. > :49:09.version of freedom of movement. Can he assure the House that there'll be
:49:10. > :49:16.no application for the hundreds of thousands of UK citizens living in
:49:17. > :49:19.the EU for this deal? Of course if we stay in the European Union
:49:20. > :49:24.British people will continue to be able to live and work abroad as they
:49:25. > :49:27.do now. It is not for me to set up will happen to them in different
:49:28. > :49:32.circumstances. I think the league campaign will try and address that
:49:33. > :49:40.point. You will know with certainty what they get. In his statement the
:49:41. > :49:44.Prime Minister observed that leaving the EU might briefly make us feel
:49:45. > :49:48.more sovereign, does he not accept that the issue of parliamentary
:49:49. > :49:55.sovereignty will be the centre of that central one for parliamentary
:49:56. > :49:59.debate. So long as we're subject to the European Union we will not be
:50:00. > :50:04.truly sovereign and erode very little change last week in that
:50:05. > :50:08.respect. I think would change the last weekend in that respect is that
:50:09. > :50:14.because we're getting out of ever closing union we now know that we
:50:15. > :50:17.cannot be forced into folder public again good union against our will.
:50:18. > :50:22.On this issue of sovereignty I will repeat again, if you leave the EU
:50:23. > :50:26.you might feel more sovereign because you could pass this law or
:50:27. > :50:29.pass that law, but on the other hand if you still want to set into Europe
:50:30. > :50:33.you have to meet all the rules under which you have say. That is a
:50:34. > :50:42.diminution of sovereignty rather than increase of sovereignty. On the
:50:43. > :50:45.issue of sovereignty, has been reported in several news media
:50:46. > :50:48.organizations that the Prime Minister intends to unveil a British
:50:49. > :50:53.sovereignty bill in the next few days. Will he confirm that that is
:50:54. > :50:56.the case and if so will he tell us what provision he is going to make
:50:57. > :51:00.in that bill to recognise the principle of unlimited sovereignty
:51:01. > :51:08.in parliament and the distinctively English principal which has no
:51:09. > :51:18.counterpart to Scott a scattered -- constitutional law? We will build a
:51:19. > :51:22.2011 when we set out that our limited sovereign. Just as they can
:51:23. > :51:27.join the year they can join the -- Olevia. That is the good for the
:51:28. > :51:31.whole of the United Kingdom. We do have a sovereign parliament. I do
:51:32. > :51:38.think there are ways we can add to that. As other countries have done,
:51:39. > :51:43.I look for to bringing proposals forward in the coming day. On Friday
:51:44. > :51:53.two and a half thousand people packed the QE Center to see the goal
:51:54. > :52:01.launch national cross party leaf campaign, many speakers were there,
:52:02. > :52:06.including a renowned economic commentator, a senior trade
:52:07. > :52:12.unionist, and very respected Labour in Pete, the co-chairman of
:52:13. > :52:23.conservatives for Britain, for conservative MPs, and the leader of
:52:24. > :52:27.respect. In 2014, Bruce Davidson our excellent conservative leader in
:52:28. > :52:34.Scotland, linked arms with George Galloway in the national interest.
:52:35. > :52:37.Does the Prime Minister agree that Ruth Davidson was right and does he
:52:38. > :52:42.agree that sometimes you have to work with people you do not like?
:52:43. > :52:48.Everyone will have to make the choice about what platform they
:52:49. > :52:53.appear on and who they appear on those platforms with. I think the
:52:54. > :52:59.disadvantage of appearing on any platform with either Nigel The
:53:00. > :53:06.Mirage or George Galloway is what I consider who their friends are. ,
:53:07. > :53:15.this is going to be something everyone will have to think
:53:16. > :53:21.carefully about when they to appear. There has been a lot of talk about
:53:22. > :53:23.the City of London and big multilateral companies working here
:53:24. > :53:31.and investing in this country. The beating heart of our economy and the
:53:32. > :53:35.small and medium enterprise sector. As India's exports to EU countries.
:53:36. > :53:41.As the Prime Minister agree that it would be madness to slam the door in
:53:42. > :53:47.their face. I think the overwhelming majority of SNAs... There are many
:53:48. > :53:52.companies that are not exporters but are involved in the supply chain
:53:53. > :53:57.with companies that do export. This is a point that the business
:53:58. > :54:07.services organizations, banks accountants and lawyers make. I
:54:08. > :54:13.would like to also think my right noble friend the Prime Minister, and
:54:14. > :54:19.all routable members of this house who voted for us to have a
:54:20. > :54:25.referendum on our EU membership. Can you promise to say whether the remit
:54:26. > :54:28.he has reached alters the Lisbon Treaty at all? Obviously it does,
:54:29. > :54:37.would we change these treaties this'll be of the founding documents
:54:38. > :54:41.of the EU. In time the treaty changes will sit alongside the other
:54:42. > :54:45.treaties that have been produced in the past. Like him, I regret the
:54:46. > :54:52.fact that so many treaties were passed with so many Democratic
:54:53. > :55:01.accountability -- so little. A distant dream for many of us who
:55:02. > :55:08.used to argue this never got it. The Prime Minister has stated that
:55:09. > :55:17.people who vote to leave the EU do not love their country. I represent
:55:18. > :55:21.many veterans of the armed services who is cannot be questioned. What he
:55:22. > :55:27.Prime Minister apologise to the people? I absolutely did not say
:55:28. > :55:35.that. I said that I love my country and I think our country will be
:55:36. > :55:37.greater and more powerful but we remain a organizations through which
:55:38. > :55:41.we can project our power and influence and do great things in the
:55:42. > :55:46.world. I did not question the patriotism of anyone in our country.
:55:47. > :55:51.We're going to have to make a choice. I think part of Britain's
:55:52. > :55:58.greatness is not just the right we have this country, but we are not in
:55:59. > :56:03.doubt looking country. I'm very proud that we help during refugees,
:56:04. > :56:09.and help stabilise countries from which so many problems come. We do
:56:10. > :56:14.this because we are strong, but also because we are members of Nato, we
:56:15. > :56:20.are a permanent seat of the UN, and part of the EU. We should be proud
:56:21. > :56:30.of the world that we play in the world. -- role. If these
:56:31. > :56:33.negotiations did not succeed, and he would have no hesitation even
:56:34. > :56:38.recommending that we leave the European Union. Can he have in the
:56:39. > :56:43.library papers which cover contingency plans which would take
:56:44. > :56:46.place in that eventuality. What he confirm that in that circumstance
:56:47. > :56:51.exactly the same leap in the dark what have to be made by him as he is
:56:52. > :56:58.now vilified? What I would say to my Honorable friend and I have great
:56:59. > :57:05.respect for him because he is held his views for many years, and I
:57:06. > :57:08.would hope he will respect my views. In terms of the documentation we're
:57:09. > :57:11.going to be publishing something about the alternatives to
:57:12. > :57:15.demonstrate what we believe they are you demonstrate that we are thinking
:57:16. > :57:20.about what would need to happen with that eventuality to come about. In
:57:21. > :57:24.terms of what we achieved, I'm very happy to write to him with a list of
:57:25. > :57:29.things that we said in our manifesto. We achieve in this new
:57:30. > :57:32.renegotiation. Consequent to say that I'm going to take a different
:57:33. > :57:36.path from you, I'm going to make my own decision. Somehow we have not
:57:37. > :57:47.delivered the overt whelming On at the Prime Minister can tell
:57:48. > :57:53.the House whether he thinks rural communities and present would be
:57:54. > :57:56.better our worst thing in the EU. I represent rural communities, 400
:57:57. > :58:02.square miles of beautiful West Oxfordshire. There'll be a range of
:58:03. > :58:08.views in my constituency by no one I talked to many of those responsible
:58:09. > :58:10.for producing food and for looking after our local environment, that
:58:11. > :58:18.they see strong advantages of fermenting. -- of remaining. Though
:58:19. > :58:22.the parameters are agreed and negotiated a special status till,
:58:23. > :58:31.the actual demonstrations of sovereignty at his best? -- special
:58:32. > :58:34.status till. Safer and more economic prosperous and a manifest itself in
:58:35. > :58:38.many aspects of the deal, but also the way in which we behave as a
:58:39. > :58:46.nation state within the European Union and the future. What I would
:58:47. > :58:51.say is I think it demonstrates that while this organisation is imperfect
:58:52. > :58:56.and sometimes campy and flexible, they did show flexibility. One
:58:57. > :59:01.country came along with a manifest in place renegotiate its position
:59:02. > :59:05.with a set of changes and by large we have achieved them. I think that
:59:06. > :59:08.a sign that this organisation can be flexible IP that is incredibly
:59:09. > :59:11.important. If he did not achieve any of this, I would really have deep
:59:12. > :59:17.questions about whether the stay in an organisation like this. But they
:59:18. > :59:24.demonstrate it looks ability. -- demonstrated flexibility. I'm proud
:59:25. > :59:30.of Northern Ireland in his place in the world as a global trader. And I
:59:31. > :59:33.know we benefit a great deal from the EU at the moment. With a mind
:59:34. > :59:38.that promised or made it clear what the benefits are to us on our
:59:39. > :59:43.borders, our farmers, are fishermen, and all the people there that really
:59:44. > :59:50.relied on international trade? I look forward to coming there to make
:59:51. > :59:55.a point. -- those point. We look at the sad that they have been given in
:59:56. > :00:02.terms of final grants, -- Arlen that they have. If you look at what we
:00:03. > :00:07.have reformed heredity, agricultural policies, more to be done. I think
:00:08. > :00:09.money goes into another I lived through those programmes and I'm
:00:10. > :00:18.happy to come and talk about all those things in the province.
:00:19. > :00:23.Will actually be changed to incorporate our changes and perhaps
:00:24. > :00:29.to allow greater integration of the eurozone, required for the
:00:30. > :00:35.referendum in the UK or not? That require a future referendum. The
:00:36. > :00:41.eurozone members were to bring forward treaty changes to change the
:00:42. > :00:44.nature of the eurozone, but without effecting any weight competences
:00:45. > :00:49.here in Britain. Then I suspect we'll be up to get our changes on
:00:50. > :00:54.ever closer union, on the governments surrounding the
:00:55. > :00:59.eurozone, and to the treaty. Whether it require never referendum depends
:01:00. > :01:03.on whether it goes to Brussels. If the answer is yes, you have to have
:01:04. > :01:09.a referendum. If the answer is no, you don't. And as statement, the
:01:10. > :01:16.Prime Minister said responsibility for supervising the stability of the
:01:17. > :01:22.UK will always remain in the hands of the Bank of England. -- in his
:01:23. > :01:26.statement. But we already share that responsibility. With the European
:01:27. > :01:32.banking authorities and we already signed up to the single will book
:01:33. > :01:37.about RT. Out of the Prime Minister statement compatible with the view
:01:38. > :01:41.of Mr, the head of the European banking authority, who says that the
:01:42. > :01:47.institution must be the dominant player in Santa Cruz, particularly
:01:48. > :01:54.in Britain wishes to keep the town and state within a single European
:01:55. > :01:58.financial regulation. The assets of this question requires something
:01:59. > :02:05.like 35 hours of negotiation. -- the answer to this question. Of course
:02:06. > :02:10.you have the backing union arrangement. And for the kill zone
:02:11. > :02:14.countries, they need to have their banks properly scrutinised and
:02:15. > :02:18.regulated at a guilty level. We have our own currency, our on banking
:02:19. > :02:22.supervision arrangement. It is hard to supervise a complex and larger
:02:23. > :02:24.economy like Britain, with one of the largest financial centres
:02:25. > :02:29.anywhere and well, it is not just banks that are systemically
:02:30. > :02:32.important, it is also other financial institutions. Central
:02:33. > :02:35.counterparties, and why this is important is because at the end of
:02:36. > :02:39.the day, we need to make sure that whatever is the eurozone does, we
:02:40. > :02:45.are protected in terms of the Bank of England playing the role of being
:02:46. > :02:48.to intervene to resolve and to supervise those important
:02:49. > :02:52.institution. That's what paragraph four is it about. Although that
:02:53. > :03:01.sounds very technical, it is fantastically important because it
:03:02. > :03:05.Britain -- it Britain, it would have to and a zero best organisation
:03:06. > :03:09.where the eurozone is a large currency, and we can have variables,
:03:10. > :03:12.there would be a case for saying long-term, this is a single currency
:03:13. > :03:18.only organisation independently. This was crucial to get that
:03:19. > :03:21.settled, technical, but at and fundamentally important what we can
:03:22. > :03:28.get fair treatment inside this organisation. The answer is yes, we
:03:29. > :03:33.can. And it's great exercise of democracy, it is not what we say of
:03:34. > :03:35.the house, but what are constituents decide. My constituency but many
:03:36. > :03:41.will be interested in the things that affect them. The economic
:03:42. > :03:44.production of the jobs of the Bar-B-Q can bring in a single trade,
:03:45. > :03:49.so they don't want the euro, they don't want the euro superstate and
:03:50. > :03:54.something for nothing and welfare. The diamonds are confirmed to my
:03:55. > :04:02.constituents in a bubble the country that what he is negotiated. -- can
:04:03. > :04:06.Minister confirm. I don't know if I make it too one with a cold, but I
:04:07. > :04:10.hope to make it to many parts of our country to make the point. --
:04:11. > :04:14.Wimbledon. We have not solved all the problems, but we have
:04:15. > :04:19.fundamentally addressed the major that Britain had. Too much original
:04:20. > :04:23.currency club, too much regulation, too much of a politically
:04:24. > :04:27.convenient, and not national determination of free moment abuse
:04:28. > :04:29.and welfare. I think those four pinnacles of the heart of the
:04:30. > :04:40.problems we've had with this organisation. -- principles.
:04:41. > :04:46.The diamonds are going to welcome the support that he has received to
:04:47. > :04:49.date on the surprise element surviving area of the Deputy First
:04:50. > :04:57.Minister of Northern Ireland? -- if the Minister. Or is he going to
:04:58. > :05:02.encourage the people of the stay in tune with his Secretary of State for
:05:03. > :05:05.Northern Ireland, who has indicated their strong click in tune with the
:05:06. > :05:09.people of Northern Ireland that they should leave, and if he is not going
:05:10. > :05:13.to support the Secretary of State, will he didn't be following the
:05:14. > :05:18.advice of the Deputy First Minister that the Secretary of State said the
:05:19. > :05:24.bond. Will he not support the Secretary of State? The secondary
:05:25. > :05:30.state of an excellent job. She is exercising her decision for Britain
:05:31. > :05:34.to leave the queue. That's Secretary of State. I think the key thing is
:05:35. > :05:37.that an aromatic and other Alice up their mind, based on the evidence. I
:05:38. > :05:44.look forward to forward to coming to try and help persuade them to remain
:05:45. > :05:50.in a reformed EU. The Prime Minister accept that the thousands of Sun
:05:51. > :05:54.Microsystems, the hundreds of thousands of mothers, and methods
:05:55. > :05:58.across the UK to work in the financial services will be glad that
:05:59. > :06:01.he at least argues that jobs in as the Leader of the Opposition appears
:06:02. > :06:08.to the best some? And we recognise that the covenant package is an
:06:09. > :06:09.important one for strategic British interests, and therefore the
:06:10. > :06:14.pragmatic investors businesslike thing is not to walk away from a
:06:15. > :06:25.market, but to stay in it, and make it work better? We should recognise,
:06:26. > :06:29.something like an making jobs in finance, I think, so making jobs in
:06:30. > :06:34.mid-December become. The key point is because we are in the single
:06:35. > :06:37.market, we have the right to passport to have a bag or financial
:06:38. > :06:41.services company here Britain back and trade throughout the EU. The
:06:42. > :06:46.dissent of market and you lose that right. But within have to happen is
:06:47. > :06:51.companies based in the UK would have to move at least some of the jobs to
:06:52. > :07:00.admit European country. That is why HSBC said they would lose 8000 jobs.
:07:01. > :07:03.This is real jobs. -- 1000 jobs. Need to explain this, it is
:07:04. > :07:07.compensated, but there is no doubt in my mind that living the single
:07:08. > :07:14.market financial services would mean less jobs Britain. It was the
:07:15. > :07:18.assistant ahead of time as still used the word evolved in connection
:07:19. > :07:34.-- devolved in connection. Clever I personally will be voting
:07:35. > :07:38.to stay in the EU, and I will have the Prime Minister to give it to
:07:39. > :07:43.others. The diamonds are assets in a good deal, why the struggling to
:07:44. > :07:46.convince somebody in his own party? -- the Minister. Some people are
:07:47. > :07:55.long-standing feuds about wanting to leave the EU. The point I was making
:07:56. > :07:59.about starting the worst percentage, no doubt that but for some people
:08:00. > :08:02.seem to be suggesting. I just about money, but some how did you start
:08:03. > :08:06.the process of leaving, you'll get offered a better that the state. I
:08:07. > :08:09.think that is not the case. You could think about it like this,
:08:10. > :08:16.you're not just divorcing one person, you are divorcing 27,
:08:17. > :08:24.potentially unhappy partners. I give to no one in my belief, that I can
:08:25. > :08:29.bring people back, I have seen Buffalo wedding Set plays. -- I'd
:08:30. > :08:38.kill to know. Resulting in another word. -- multiple weddings. May I
:08:39. > :08:44.join other members in congratulating the Prime Minister for this work in
:08:45. > :08:50.Brussels last week. I do agree that this reform does produce a
:08:51. > :08:56.phenomenal chains and British accumulations -- phenomenal chains
:08:57. > :09:00.and British, EU lesson. It does a lot of young people would jet at the
:09:01. > :09:06.possibility of entering into a new turmoil within the economy. -- young
:09:07. > :09:11.people with the dread. We agreed that it is vital to Britain 's
:09:12. > :09:20.economy that will remain inside the European Union? -- we were made.
:09:21. > :09:22.They have a strong question this campaign would have been through
:09:23. > :09:32.difficult times. The time of uncertainty, why had extra risk? --
:09:33. > :09:35.in a time of uncertainty. And Britain's strategic interest to be
:09:36. > :09:39.pretty intimately engaged in the doings of a continent that has a
:09:40. > :09:42.gram 20th-century history, and whose alchemy have cost millions of
:09:43. > :09:48.Britons to lose their lives. That the best way of staying pretty
:09:49. > :09:53.engaged is to remain a member of the European Union. I agree with that.
:09:54. > :09:57.If we leave the EU, and do not cease to exist, but was seized element
:09:58. > :10:06.contains that an impact on our lives. And on our world. It is best
:10:07. > :10:09.to try to offer from within. Sure questions are not required. Were
:10:10. > :10:19.having answers, but we need short answer. Can we ensure that the
:10:20. > :10:24.information in the campaign is actually correct? As he was a go at
:10:25. > :10:33.letter and the telegraph and the male appeared in criticising the
:10:34. > :10:37.Prime Minister. -- a week ago. The Prime Minister, no one ever heard of
:10:38. > :10:42.that person. Can we please ask that information before by both sides is
:10:43. > :10:47.fair, accurate, Achterberg sold the public can decide on further
:10:48. > :10:56.evidence? Dass and correct. We're producing a number of documents them
:10:57. > :11:00.as -- information is accurate. Can ask the premises to read at a rate
:11:01. > :11:04.was at the heart of this matter, if the UK left the EU, who was almost
:11:05. > :11:07.having to continue to implement the vast majority of the EU roles and
:11:08. > :11:10.write what is at the heart of this matter, if the UK left the EU, who
:11:11. > :11:12.was almost having to continue to implement the vast majority of the
:11:13. > :11:15.EU roles in relation everyone to access the same terms of the single
:11:16. > :11:18.market. The only difference would be doing a lot of good essay about
:11:19. > :11:23.terms sappy love I had a lot of conversations within a original
:11:24. > :11:30.about this. If you do, you implement the directives but have no say over
:11:31. > :11:35.how they are put in place. For the first time in my lifetime, people
:11:36. > :11:49.and words are what I have a jingle and say on this. That's a legitimate
:11:50. > :11:54.say on this. In 2010 manifesto, we said we would bring and eight UK
:11:55. > :11:57.sovereignty bill to assert sovereignty of our country and make
:11:58. > :12:01.sure it was this Parliament that take. We agree that sovereignty is
:12:02. > :12:08.something that can be asserted by this house and not something for us
:12:09. > :12:13.to argue about? Would introduce, the sovereignty clause in the 2011
:12:14. > :12:19.referendum. -- we did introduce. When looking to add to it in the
:12:20. > :12:25.proposals. That's what I look into. Many mike assiduous work and the
:12:26. > :12:32.Lutton, cannot buckle with the said today. That's many of my
:12:33. > :12:37.constituents. Accessed the largest single market, given that, and
:12:38. > :12:40.offered appointments are a plus and a parliament opportunity to campaign
:12:41. > :12:45.in my constituency on this issue? Cannot also given that there are
:12:46. > :12:49.those that would love to get their hands on Britain's services, and the
:12:50. > :12:52.Maryland and has given of his day job to think about is that Shaw,
:12:53. > :12:57.connect the Prime Minister and very clear message that London is
:12:58. > :13:05.stronger in Europe? -- the Mayor of London. I would be delighted to come
:13:06. > :13:15.to his constituency. I think he is right, when it comes to the Mac DK's
:13:16. > :13:27.membership is of strategic importance to the financial and
:13:28. > :13:31.related services. -- UK's. These organisations covering finance,
:13:32. > :13:33.insurance, manufacturing, engineering, they are all negative
:13:34. > :13:43.views clear enough that we should listen to them. -- they are all
:13:44. > :13:47.making their views. Investment in the country has gone up to the West
:13:48. > :13:52.Midlands is gone. But he agree with me that full access to the single
:13:53. > :13:56.market, which focuses on jobs and growth, is critical to the security
:13:57. > :14:02.a jobs and people in my constituency and across the West Midlands? We
:14:03. > :14:06.have seen an industrial renaissance of the West Midlands with more
:14:07. > :14:10.people in part of the crowd and the automotive sector. The centres are
:14:11. > :14:15.part of complex supply chains right across Europe. He'll be huge
:14:16. > :14:21.dislocation if we were to leave. -- and it would be a huge. Access to
:14:22. > :14:25.labor, protection of workers rights, protection of human rights in some
:14:26. > :14:31.of the benefits to our membership of the EU. Beneficial to work and
:14:32. > :14:40.businesses. It must perturb arm and said that his Justice Secretary, and
:14:41. > :14:42.employment Minister, how will he assure that those positive reasons
:14:43. > :14:48.for remaining are the forefront of campaign? Grabbed a wooden issue
:14:49. > :14:56.that has caused the and differences with parties right across his house.
:14:57. > :15:00.-- we are are dealing with issues. With CC, is 23 people sitting around
:15:01. > :15:04.the Cabinet table, convinced that we should be better off within the EU,
:15:05. > :15:09.and said that attacking a different view. I doubt that we should be
:15:10. > :15:14.concerned. This is a referendum, the people's choice, not the
:15:15. > :15:21.politician's towards. Does he agree that now is the time? We are no
:15:22. > :15:27.longer an imperial power? Able to demand what we want to get of living
:15:28. > :15:33.fragile and volatile world and all senses of those terms. It is not a
:15:34. > :15:37.membership above the EU, together with the United Nations, with essay
:15:38. > :15:43.on the security council, our membership of Nato, I do platform
:15:44. > :15:49.for us to promote Britain here and abroad and that is why we should be
:15:50. > :15:53.staying? Membership of these organisations helps us to get things
:15:54. > :15:59.done for our people, country, and also made progress on the issues we
:16:00. > :16:03.care about. -- make progress. I think the prominence it deserves
:16:04. > :16:10.credit for the deal. -- Prime Minister. The campaign the honour
:16:11. > :16:17.was a state where they would look like. I think it is, not him --
:16:18. > :16:23.incumbent on him to tell us what a lead balloon flight. Any say that
:16:24. > :16:26.can be saved what will it believes will look like and what state will
:16:27. > :16:29.look like and what stable of my? We will do is have a government setting
:16:30. > :16:36.out what we believe the often bizarre. There is the Swiss model
:16:37. > :16:40.that took nine years to negotiate. There's a Norwegian model, the WT of
:16:41. > :16:47.option we could face tariffs every time you try to sell the EU. The
:16:48. > :16:51.Canada free trade deal, did get. But there it not cover all services, so
:16:52. > :16:54.you could be disadvantaged. We need to need to go to detail in the
:16:55. > :17:01.cities these input accurate, information and place so that people
:17:02. > :17:05.can see what is on offer. Other comments and agree that critical to
:17:06. > :17:10.the success of his campaign is going to be his ability to convince people
:17:11. > :17:15.that by giving us some sovereignty in prison, we have gained
:17:16. > :17:18.sovereignty interrupt the game authority in general, and can he
:17:19. > :17:26.convince the country that he'll be able to do that? This will be the
:17:27. > :17:29.challenge of the comment once. -- coming months. I have no self is
:17:30. > :17:36.interested that. I will tell as see it. What I have learned of the six
:17:37. > :17:40.years of things Prime Minister, this organisation is imperfect and can
:17:41. > :17:45.sometimes be frustrating. But we are better off in. I believe that and
:17:46. > :17:50.I'll take that message the country. -- across the country. People in
:17:51. > :17:54.Scotland are entitled to hear the case for remaining in the EU. But he
:17:55. > :17:57.made the decision on of the parent of the arguments full. The
:17:58. > :18:02.pharmacist will today about the importance of taking express will of
:18:03. > :18:06.the people. That's the prominence there. Would take full account of
:18:07. > :18:09.the view of the bread -- status people and ensure that we both
:18:10. > :18:17.remain, we are not removed from the EU? I don't think I shall afford to
:18:18. > :18:25.that in this message to campaigning in Scotland. I enjoy doing that on
:18:26. > :18:28.the referendum. -- enjoy. I look forward to making this argument
:18:29. > :18:36.again, that would have been altogether. As we are better off. It
:18:37. > :18:45.is able in united kingdom decision. -- it is one. The opposite of always
:18:46. > :18:52.had the domination for the time. If he came back as ever abjured, -- and
:18:53. > :18:55.perhaps a cure, the biggest questions I have a my constituents
:18:56. > :19:02.are what are the positive and wish you would the deal -- voted on. It
:19:03. > :19:05.houses has a cicada, the military and also make the point that
:19:06. > :19:12.sovereignty cannot be more sovereign than 46 million people don't have
:19:13. > :19:18.their say. That which is not talk about the potential benefits of free
:19:19. > :19:26.trade, but there are some very simple practical benefits. -- not
:19:27. > :19:29.only talk about. Because open skies, prices are going on holidays and
:19:30. > :19:35.taking a flight anywhere a girl will come down something like 40%. And
:19:36. > :19:38.when you travel, you'll be able to access to digital content on
:19:39. > :19:45.Arafat's fast they can watch whatever you want. Wherever you are
:19:46. > :19:54.God. -- so you can watch whatever. That's wherever you are. Many of my
:19:55. > :19:59.constituents are somewhat too for their hugely concerned about the
:20:00. > :20:02.future the cat. Can the prominence it say what they believe the UK
:20:03. > :20:06.still in the street by the brunt brighter future if we were managing
:20:07. > :20:13.your abortive relief? -- UK steel industry.
:20:14. > :20:21.The point I would make is however difficult it is, they would have a
:20:22. > :20:25.better chance of dealing with Chinese overcapacity and dumping and
:20:26. > :20:32.all of it if we work as the biggest market in the world, to 500 million
:20:33. > :20:35.people. We can get some things done, the fifth-largest economy, but it is
:20:36. > :20:43.part of a 500 Megan, I think we can get more action. -- 500 million. A
:20:44. > :20:47.number of unemployed, somatic constituents has fallen by 80%. Will
:20:48. > :20:59.the Prime Minister agree with me to leave the EU now the so much
:21:00. > :21:03.uncertainty would risk a reversal? I think there is a simple point here,
:21:04. > :21:06.which is we live in uncertain times, we make good progress on the
:21:07. > :21:11.economy, and we should try to take the risk of weight from the economic
:21:12. > :21:20.performance, and clearly tended our status with the risk. -- changing
:21:21. > :21:23.our status. We have been enriched by freedom moment with corporations,
:21:24. > :21:28.and will remain relevant in global because of that seed we have in the
:21:29. > :21:32.European Union. All of which -- because of the seed. With that in
:21:33. > :21:36.mind, will the prominence or for some punch into a positive fight to
:21:37. > :21:39.remain incurable because when a front iPhone it it it was this
:21:40. > :21:42.conservative Prime Minister who listed to the Scottish national
:21:43. > :21:50.party who say Britain from his cell phone? -- say Britain from itself.
:21:51. > :21:55.There is for the part of his campaign and it will be positive.
:21:56. > :21:59.But I make no apologies that and making a positive campaign about
:22:00. > :22:02.jobs, and about business, and competitiveness, let's also examined
:22:03. > :22:10.the alternative. There's nothing wrong with doing that. As a member
:22:11. > :22:16.of the Neto, I has sent Nato operations around the world. That
:22:17. > :22:22.has. Does he agree with me that it's actually the 28 member nations of
:22:23. > :22:26.Nato, including non-EQ countries, like Norway, Turkey, Iceland, the
:22:27. > :22:33.United States and Canada, that is delivering our international
:22:34. > :22:39.security, but not an EU army? We don't want a EU army, and this
:22:40. > :22:42.document could really says that clearly said that our national
:22:43. > :22:48.security is a reserved matter for nation states. I think when you look
:22:49. > :22:52.in detail for what both Nato and the EU is done off the coast of Somalia,
:22:53. > :22:56.what is happening in the Mediterranean, what is Nato and the
:22:57. > :22:59.ease, the EU and the south, you need to be about these organisations.
:23:00. > :23:13.That should be involved of these. The Cantonment membership of the EU
:23:14. > :23:24.has been a force for good for trade, jobs, investments and international
:23:25. > :23:27.cooperation. -- the UK. The promoter prosperity and kept up at the
:23:28. > :23:33.ravages of two world wars. With a common set agreed that those who are
:23:34. > :23:35.campaigning so aggressively, to reject his negotiations, took a
:23:36. > :23:40.prison blues in the modern world are not only on the wrong side of the
:23:41. > :23:48.big argument on history as well? -- to cut Britain loose and the modern.
:23:49. > :23:54.I think there is a showcase for saying when we try to cut ourselves
:23:55. > :23:58.off, it ended in disaster and the need to re-engage at the end of
:23:59. > :24:02.that. We should always work to get our engagements fright wigs this
:24:03. > :24:09.deal is all about. -- engagement right which this deal. I'm standing
:24:10. > :24:16.at the side of the Prime Minister of this one. The promise as a hosted by
:24:17. > :24:20.me and my people and Morgan. In my constituency, we have the port which
:24:21. > :24:25.is 10% of our GDP going through it. Both from Northern Ireland. Also we
:24:26. > :24:29.have the ESP power stations, two nuclear stations. Which is the
:24:30. > :24:33.French government's sponsor. I want to see jobs lost in my constituency,
:24:34. > :24:36.especially as it has the lowest unemployment rate at this moment in
:24:37. > :24:44.time seen in generations. Would my friend agree with me on that
:24:45. > :24:47.synopsis? I agree that in the end, this is about jobs and livelihoods
:24:48. > :24:50.and I think that he stands up very well for his constituents. I
:24:51. > :24:56.remember visiting where we were looking at the Lake Road and I
:24:57. > :25:03.haven't ever everything into one fabric. I just hope it survives. --
:25:04. > :25:09.hammered into the bridge. Following his indication, that a series of
:25:10. > :25:14.documents would be published in relation to the foreign proposals,
:25:15. > :25:18.and on the 3rd of February, the Prime Minister referred to the
:25:19. > :25:25.impact of the free movement of people within Ireland and the
:25:26. > :25:30.removal of that street moment. If in the event of an exit, can the Prime
:25:31. > :25:36.Minister confirm Windows documents will be made available, so that we
:25:37. > :25:41.will be able to have a full and robust discussion, as people who
:25:42. > :25:47.want to remain within the European Union? I did the days of Windows
:25:48. > :25:55.will be published, but I will try to make sure -- it does not have the
:25:56. > :25:58.dates. Within the border another island, and the issue of the
:25:59. > :26:05.movement of people that can be triggered by that. -- Northern
:26:06. > :26:09.Ireland. One word that seems to come up around the report of the summit
:26:10. > :26:13.was contagion, as of other say following his lead with be a bad
:26:14. > :26:16.thing. But he agree that contagion could be a good thing and something
:26:17. > :26:23.that we should encourage? The 1-size-fits-all Europe is now a
:26:24. > :26:30.thing of the past. And we have now set a league which has several
:26:31. > :26:34.forms. -- Stanley. You're one of her work if we tried to make everybody
:26:35. > :26:42.1-size-fits-all as a country like Britain raises concerns and I'm glad
:26:43. > :26:50.to have been. -- to happen. Among the UK citizens living in the
:26:51. > :26:53.European Union, approximately 30,000 of them are claiming benefits in
:26:54. > :27:01.those European countries. How the Prime Minister package affect them?
:27:02. > :27:05.But we have negotiated is a welfare mechanism that the European
:27:06. > :27:09.Commission have said applies to present. So now we're able to pull
:27:10. > :27:12.this emergency brake and restrict benefits for seven years. It is up
:27:13. > :27:17.by other countries to determine whether they qualify and whether
:27:18. > :27:20.they are able to do that, but I'm in no doubt applies right-of-way in the
:27:21. > :27:28.UK, which is what I was determined to secure. The Prime Minister will
:27:29. > :27:34.be aware that we have partners and militarize outside of the EU. That
:27:35. > :27:37.heavily represented -- representations... As to whether
:27:38. > :27:42.they see better inside the EU or outside the. I all the conversations
:27:43. > :27:45.I've had, from our partners, our neighbours, countries that look to
:27:46. > :27:50.us as friends around the world, and I've been quite surprised by how
:27:51. > :27:54.unanimous and passionate to have been. Any sense that for instance,
:27:55. > :27:57.some of the countries of the Commonwealth might want Britain to
:27:58. > :28:02.step back from Europe and form some sort of new relationship with them,
:28:03. > :28:05.I would totally disabuse people of that idea. The Prime Minister of New
:28:06. > :28:11.Zealand, Canada, Australia, they cannot be more clear, the president
:28:12. > :28:16.of America about to give Britain should stay in a reformed European
:28:17. > :28:27.Union. In that way, they should looking out for them to sign
:28:28. > :28:33.Europe will continue to boost our commitments to watch military in
:28:34. > :28:39.case we have seen the last years. Last year and last summer there were
:28:40. > :28:43.attempts made to link those cases to membership of the European Union.
:28:44. > :28:48.Can the Prime Minister give us an assurance that the both of what
:28:49. > :28:54.happens this will be based solely on humanitarian necessity and as to how
:28:55. > :28:59.it will impact? Of course will do what is right. But I think it is
:29:00. > :29:04.important to address in the context of our membership this issue of
:29:05. > :29:09.migration. I make a number of points. One is that obviously
:29:10. > :29:13.outside Schengen and so that people coming to the EU don't have
:29:14. > :29:17.automatic right to come to Britain. Second I make the point that we are
:29:18. > :29:21.doing a very responsible thing in taking refugees direct from the
:29:22. > :29:25.region. Third we are working with our European partners to secure the
:29:26. > :29:30.external border. At the end of the day whether we are in the EU or out
:29:31. > :29:34.of the EU, we are affected by this problem in Europe. So we should be
:29:35. > :29:36.working with our partners to make sure that they can better control
:29:37. > :29:43.and stop in some cases the flow of and stop in some cases the flow of
:29:44. > :29:46.people to Europe. Some argue that we will be able to forge a better deals
:29:47. > :29:51.across the world by leaving the European Union. In the three years I
:29:52. > :29:55.have been a trade and what, I have not yet met a single representation
:29:56. > :29:59.that believed our trade investment would be better if we left the EU.
:30:00. > :30:04.Does my right honourable friend. LAUGHTER. Does my right honourable
:30:05. > :30:07.friend agree with me that the referendum is not about whether we
:30:08. > :30:13.should do business with your for the rest of the world, but that we
:30:14. > :30:19.should get the treat free trade agreement and always prioritise the
:30:20. > :30:24.EU. We are expanding our trade inside easy Asia. We have doubled
:30:25. > :30:28.our trade with China. I am very shocked that he used that countries
:30:29. > :30:32.have not said that they want to get out of a trade deal with us. They
:30:33. > :30:44.are saying to state within the EU and that the EU will be bigger and
:30:45. > :30:49.better. The Prime Minister maximises the case. I am trying to confirm
:30:50. > :30:53.rumours that he has been exploiting the situation to his own self
:30:54. > :30:56.interests. He has opened a private book on his successor. Can the Prime
:30:57. > :31:01.Minister confirm this can he give up the claim of where the money is
:31:02. > :31:08.flowing and will he guaranteed to extend the syndicate to the rest of
:31:09. > :31:12.us. LAUGHTER. My father was an gambler and I remember sitting on a
:31:13. > :31:16.Saturday watching him betting on race after race. While I enjoyed all
:31:17. > :31:21.that pulled, I have always tried to stay away from it myself. So I am
:31:22. > :31:24.not writing a book. All I know is that I will do the right thing for
:31:25. > :31:33.this country and the right thing for this country is to read -- remained
:31:34. > :31:38.in the reformed EU. Agreement. The mood is that today they could cut
:31:39. > :31:43.Britain's credit rating. This and let the UK manages to negotiate new
:31:44. > :31:48.trade arrangement with the EU, that deserves at least some of the trade
:31:49. > :31:53.benefits, the exports will suffer and go on to uncertainty in negative
:31:54. > :31:58.investment. Is that a fear or warning from the world. There are
:31:59. > :32:03.important economic consequences that we do need to so people can see all
:32:04. > :32:08.the potential downsides and what they are. This is what I think it's
:32:09. > :32:12.a leap in the dark. How long it would take to put trade deals in
:32:13. > :32:16.place and how damaging that could be. It would be irresponsible to put
:32:17. > :32:29.in front of the British people with the consequences of the changes are.
:32:30. > :32:39.Hear, hear!. Mr Speaker that disbursements of car payments.
:32:40. > :32:42.Convergence of less in the EU pervaded the UK which is actually
:32:43. > :32:51.based on the payments that the farmers received. That would make it
:32:52. > :32:54.much easier for farmers. I'll look carefully at what the Honorable
:32:55. > :32:59.general is that. My memory of the camp deal and the finance deal are
:33:00. > :33:02.the consequences whether we gave a huge amount of leeway to the
:33:03. > :33:08.devolved administrations to determine the right way to spend the
:33:09. > :33:12.money and actually farmers benefit from the way this is done. But I
:33:13. > :33:21.will look very carefully at the point he makes. Speaking I think the
:33:22. > :33:24.Prime Minister for all his for all his work on behalf of our country
:33:25. > :33:29.over the last months and years. Exports to China to Germany from the
:33:30. > :33:33.UK as shown in significant increases. Does not this showed that
:33:34. > :33:39.the opportunities for trade outside the EU are not what some would a
:33:40. > :33:44.constraint by membership of the EU. You don't is that your trade with
:33:45. > :33:53.China by doing listed with the EU. He's absolutely right. Last year
:33:54. > :33:56.every single colleague on this side of the House stood successfully
:33:57. > :34:02.under the leadership of my right honourable friend the one niche and
:34:03. > :34:05.conservative team. Would my right honourable friend agree with me that
:34:06. > :34:10.what ever that use of members on this side of the House, and for that
:34:11. > :34:16.matter I fully support the Prime Minister, what about the abuse and
:34:17. > :34:20.the outcome of the European union referendum, we must unify once again
:34:21. > :34:25.as a party to ensure that you ever our path into the 2020 election does
:34:26. > :34:30.not allow accidentally Jeremy Quarterman and his Labour
:34:31. > :34:34.colleagues. I agree this is always going to be a difficult process went
:34:35. > :34:36.in the Labour Party as well as in the Conservative Party there are
:34:37. > :34:41.people on both sides of the debate. I think this is such a big question
:34:42. > :34:44.and questions that will be answered ultimately by people rather than
:34:45. > :34:47.politicians. We should all be big enough to have an honest but open
:34:48. > :34:58.and polite disagreement and then come back together afterwards. I
:34:59. > :35:02.take the Prime Minister back to an election commitment in 2014 when he
:35:03. > :35:05.and I along with thousands of conservative activists campaigned on
:35:06. > :35:11.a promise to restore control of our borders. The Prime Minister says in
:35:12. > :35:14.that year I will go to Brussels and I will not take no for an answer.
:35:15. > :35:18.When it comes to free movement I will get what Britain needs. What
:35:19. > :35:22.changed last week was like what changed last week is that we are
:35:23. > :35:29.reforming to make sure that we can keep our fraudsters criminals and
:35:30. > :35:33.those peddling sham marriages, make sure we can apply British rules to
:35:34. > :35:38.foreign nationals to European citizens as well. The secretary
:35:39. > :35:44.negotiated incredibly hard knowing this was the one moment we had the
:35:45. > :35:48.ability to make these changes and reversed European court judgements
:35:49. > :35:56.in order that we do reform free movement. This is that what we have
:35:57. > :36:00.done. I thank my Honorable friend for the referendum first of all. He
:36:01. > :36:04.and I fundamentally disagree as he notes. My concerns for immigration
:36:05. > :36:14.which he said he would contain, we have a net migration of about 1000
:36:15. > :36:20.40,000 at the moment. Every year that is the size of a small city in
:36:21. > :36:25.this country. Surely that is unsustainable and what his position
:36:26. > :36:29.is and will not prevent that from happening. Where I agree with my
:36:30. > :36:33.Honorable friend is that we have to do more to control immigration. We
:36:34. > :36:37.look at the net migration in the UK, it is made up of half and half
:36:38. > :36:42.roughly. Half outside the EU which shows us what we need to do to shut
:36:43. > :36:46.down the bogus colleges to make sure that people are coming unfairly.
:36:47. > :36:50.Would end the EU the most we can do is to withdraw the artificial draw
:36:51. > :36:55.of additional welfare payments. The fact that people can get ?10,000 in
:36:56. > :37:00.the first year they come, surely that is an important determination.
:37:01. > :37:03.I am convinced of the convex measures we can get immigration down
:37:04. > :37:08.and do it while we're waiting is member the European Union. During
:37:09. > :37:11.the general election it was reported that the Prime Minister had
:37:12. > :37:16.expressed some concern about the coverage of the BBC in the election
:37:17. > :37:20.and his impartiality. What assurances can the Prime Minister
:37:21. > :37:27.give me so I can relate that to my constituents that BBC won't abuse
:37:28. > :37:32.its position against? LAUGHTER Politicians complaining about the
:37:33. > :37:34.BBC is a pretty common activity. I remember the former First Minister
:37:35. > :37:41.of Scotland getting quite heated about this issue. Every media
:37:42. > :37:46.organisation is under obligation. Sorry let me restate that. That is
:37:47. > :37:53.not true the newspapers. Every regulated television business is
:37:54. > :38:01.under duty of impartiality. But I'm sure that they will carry that out.
:38:02. > :38:05.I think the Prime Minister and all colleagues and all 103 backbenchers
:38:06. > :38:13.who took part in this important exchange. Before we proceed, I will
:38:14. > :38:21.of course take points of order. Thank you Mr Speaker. I made the
:38:22. > :38:26.office is aware of my attentions. Mr Speaker last week after much delay
:38:27. > :38:29.the long waited reports on the mental health task force was
:38:30. > :38:32.published. On the same government day -- day the government made a
:38:33. > :38:36.series of announcements to the media in response to the report. This is a
:38:37. > :38:40.courtesy that is still yet to be afforded to this house. Mr Speaker
:38:41. > :38:46.this is a vital moment for mental health in England. This is highly
:38:47. > :38:49.regrettable that this report was published during recess preventing
:38:50. > :38:53.members from all sides of this house from scrutinising its findings and
:38:54. > :38:58.questioning the government on the response to it. Can you advise the
:38:59. > :39:02.Mr Speaker or whether you had given any indication from ministers on
:39:03. > :39:05.whether they plan to make a statement on the mental health task
:39:06. > :39:12.force and allow the opportunity to question the government on
:39:13. > :39:17.announcements that they have made? Thanks to Lady for her order and
:39:18. > :39:20.given me a chance to respond to it. Now I have not received an
:39:21. > :39:25.indication that the Minister plans to make a statement on the matter.
:39:26. > :39:31.What I would say provisionally, on the basis of having learned of this
:39:32. > :39:36.matter, only this morning. Significant announcements of changes
:39:37. > :39:42.in policy should be made first to the House. That means save in cases
:39:43. > :39:47.of emergency to the House, while it is sitting. Of course Honorable
:39:48. > :39:53.members and others can and do access to reports, whether or not the rep
:39:54. > :40:00.house is sitting and can pursue their content in debate and in
:40:01. > :40:03.questions. In this case I will cause further inquiries to be made on the
:40:04. > :40:13.content and timing of this particular announcement. Point of
:40:14. > :40:19.order Mr Alberto Costa. Begu Mr Speaker. When referring to
:40:20. > :40:26.parliamentary sovereignty and its affect across the United Kingdom,
:40:27. > :40:32.specifically Mr Speaker I seek your guidance on how the parliamentary
:40:33. > :40:36.sovereignty should applies equally in Scotland as it doesn't in
:40:37. > :40:45.England. This is not within in the 1953 McCormick case of course. Order
:40:46. > :40:51.I say today's of the Honorable gentleman. I am trying to be kind to
:40:52. > :40:56.the Honorable gentleman who is a new member. If the Honorable gentleman
:40:57. > :40:59.wants to raise points of order to argue about the proprieties of
:41:00. > :41:08.parliamentary procedure, perhaps he would learn that in Leader of the
:41:09. > :41:13.Opposition, he should not call him by name. People have really got to
:41:14. > :41:18.be careful of their own sound ground if they start playing the procedural
:41:19. > :41:22.card. Secondly I said very kindly to the honourable gentleman and, whose
:41:23. > :41:32.intellect and eloquence are of course evident to all, LAUGHTER.
:41:33. > :41:39.This does not seem to need to be a matter of a point of appointed
:41:40. > :41:49.order. This is an argument between opposing lawyers. We'll leave it
:41:50. > :41:55.there for now. OK if there are no further points of order, perhaps we
:41:56. > :42:03.can first best proceed with our later business. The court will now
:42:04. > :42:15.read the orders of the The Northern Ireland storm and agreements
:42:16. > :42:21.reading. I call to move the second reading of the bill. The second
:42:22. > :42:25.Terry of state of Northern Ireland. Thank you Mr Speaker. I would like
:42:26. > :42:32.to move that the bill now be read in second time. This gives key elements
:42:33. > :42:39.of the 2015 and the Stormont House Agreement of 20 15. This is an
:42:40. > :42:43.review of implementation of those agreements which taken together have
:42:44. > :42:46.the potential to secure a more peaceful, stable, and prosperous
:42:47. > :42:50.future for Northern Ireland. Before returning to the detail of the
:42:51. > :42:54.causes, I will remind the House of some background to their content. As
:42:55. > :42:58.the House will recall, followed December ten weeks of intensive
:42:59. > :43:04.talks the government along with the Northern Ireland's executive parties
:43:05. > :43:10.and the Irish reach the storm and house agreement on December 23 of
:43:11. > :43:13.2014. That address many of the most mythic and challenges facing
:43:14. > :43:18.Northern Ireland. Some of those such as not standing agreements over
:43:19. > :43:21.flags parading in the past. These were damaging to political
:43:22. > :43:29.relationships within the default is that the tubes. Of these particular
:43:30. > :43:33.what the state of the executives finance and jeopardising the
:43:34. > :43:38.effectiveness and even the continues dependability of the devolution
:43:39. > :43:42.itself. That agreement included proposals to give the executive and
:43:43. > :43:46.workable and sustainable budget, to set a path to which it dissolving
:43:47. > :43:52.contingent issues around lack symbols and parading, to establish
:43:53. > :43:55.new bodies to tackle the legacy of Northern Ireland's past, and to
:43:56. > :44:00.deliver reforms that things will work better. All of this was
:44:01. > :44:04.underpinned by a financial package giving the executives around to
:44:05. > :44:13.billions in actual spending. The Stormont House Agreement was and
:44:14. > :44:15.remains a good deal for Northern Ireland. By last summer it was clear
:44:16. > :44:22.that implementation had stalled. This is largely due to disagreements
:44:23. > :44:26.within the executive team. They also withdrew their support for the
:44:27. > :44:31.welfare reform package. As the stand is off continued this happened in
:44:32. > :44:37.effect in preventing decisions of other elements of the agreement.
:44:38. > :44:42.Sadly the sense of crisis was intensified by to brutal murders in
:44:43. > :44:47.Belfast -- one in May and one in August. This is what again raised
:44:48. > :44:51.the spectre of the malign influence of the paramilitary activity on the
:44:52. > :44:55.streets of Northern Ireland. As we entered last autumn, the political
:44:56. > :45:01.situation was looking increasingly perilous. We face a real prospect
:45:02. > :45:08.that reservations might treble trigger early elections and easily
:45:09. > :45:12.lead to the collapse of the devolved institutions. That would have been a
:45:13. > :45:16.very major setback. After all that has been achieved on the successive
:45:17. > :45:20.governments during the past 20 years. It was an outcome that the
:45:21. > :45:27.government was strenuously and decisively acting to try and avoid.
:45:28. > :45:31.Firstly in a speech in Cambridge on the 5th of September, I make clear
:45:32. > :45:35.that we could not let the financial imparts continued indefinitely. If
:45:36. > :45:39.there was not a resolution to the dispute, we would be left with no
:45:40. > :45:43.option but to legislate for Greece -- welfare reform in Westminster.
:45:44. > :45:47.Secondly on following discussions with my right honourable friend the
:45:48. > :45:50.Prime Minister, it was decided that the time was right to have a second
:45:51. > :45:55.round of cross party talks which began at storm in how on the 8th of
:45:56. > :46:01.December. Once again these included the five largest part of the
:46:02. > :46:05.Northern Ireland Assembly. In accordance with the long established
:46:06. > :46:12.three standard approach to Northern Ireland affairs. The objectives we
:46:13. > :46:15.set ourselves were twofold. To secure the full implementation of
:46:16. > :46:22.the Stormont House Agreement and also to work with paramilitary --
:46:23. > :46:26.paramilitary activity. These concluded on the 17th of November
:46:27. > :46:31.with a document entitled the fresh start Stormont agreement and
:46:32. > :46:37.implementation plan. This was agreed between the UK Government the Irish
:46:38. > :46:41.government and the national is in the executives. In the governments
:46:42. > :46:45.view that agreement goes a long way to satisfy the objectives that the
:46:46. > :46:50.participants of the talks that themselves. It gives the executive a
:46:51. > :46:55.stable and sustainable budget, including wealth over form. It am
:46:56. > :47:00.blocked progress on other crucial elements of the Stormont House
:47:01. > :47:06.Agreement. And on parent military activity, the agreement strongly
:47:07. > :47:09.prefers for the long and places fresh obligations on Northern
:47:10. > :47:14.Ireland's political representatives to work together with determination
:47:15. > :47:17.to reach society and filled urgently -- paramilitary activity. That
:47:18. > :47:20.agreement by the previous one was underpinned by financial package
:47:21. > :47:27.from the UK Government this time worth up to half alien pounds. I can
:47:28. > :47:31.inform the House of progress on his limitation of the agreement has been
:47:32. > :47:36.good. The day after it was reached on the 18th of November, the
:47:37. > :47:42.assembly passed the latest live -- legislative consent motion for the
:47:43. > :47:48.-- Westminster to go ahead. The subsequent Northern Ireland welfare
:47:49. > :47:51.reform act was given on the 25th of November and the related woods has
:47:52. > :47:55.on the 20th of December. The government is now working on the
:47:56. > :47:58.secondary legislation to deliver the new welfare system in Northern
:47:59. > :48:04.Ireland. We hope to be in a position to begin bringing this forward
:48:05. > :48:08.shortly with a view to completing its passage through both houses as
:48:09. > :48:12.soon as we are able to. On the 21st of December, the UK and Irish
:48:13. > :48:17.governments along with the Northern Ireland Executive established a
:48:18. > :48:21.joint agency task force to reinforce efforts to tackle cross
:48:22. > :48:26.jurisdictional organised crime. The executive has established a 3-person
:48:27. > :48:33.panel to make recommendations for a ranging strategy to expand
:48:34. > :48:37.paramilitary groups. The appointments for the new commission
:48:38. > :48:40.is underway. A bill of the government departments from 12 to
:48:41. > :48:45.not have completed its consideration in the assembly and a further bill
:48:46. > :48:48.to reduce the number of MLA in their prestigious seat from six to five is
:48:49. > :48:54.set for a final stage of consideration in the assembly
:48:55. > :48:58.tomorrow. The bill before the House today represents further significant
:48:59. > :49:01.progress doing with elements of the fresh start agreement which require
:49:02. > :49:08.UK Government legislation. Clauses one through five are to be agreed
:49:09. > :49:13.between the UK and Irish governments and will establish the independent
:49:14. > :49:17.report commissioned. The bill sets out the commissions primary
:49:18. > :49:20.objective to promote progress toward ending paramilitary activity
:49:21. > :49:24.collected with Northern Ireland. It will report on progress towards that
:49:25. > :49:27.objective and on the implementation of relevant measures by the UK
:49:28. > :49:33.Government, the Irish government, and the executive, which we were
:49:34. > :49:39.greeted in the fresh start agreement. The bill makes provision
:49:40. > :49:44.for key aspects including the duties to which it will be subject and the
:49:45. > :49:48.legal privileges to be conferred on it as an international body. These
:49:49. > :49:52.are intended to make sure that the commission is able to engage with a
:49:53. > :49:57.range of sources of information in performing its important functions,
:49:58. > :50:02.but avoids doing anything that might put safety and national security at
:50:03. > :50:05.risk. I appreciate the honourable members looking at the text of the
:50:06. > :50:09.treaty. It is not possible to provide that today because it is not
:50:10. > :50:14.yet agreed between the UK and Irish governments. But of course we will
:50:15. > :50:25.pay for -- plays a copy in the House library as soon as possible in June.
:50:26. > :50:28.The remaining Clause talks about allocation after 14 days after the
:50:29. > :50:34.assembly meets following an election. The purpose of this
:50:35. > :50:39.agreement and change will allow parties more time to agree on a
:50:40. > :50:44.cross party but basis prior to the allocation of ministerial positions.
:50:45. > :50:52.It is hoped that this will encourage all parties approach to a programme
:50:53. > :50:56.for Government. Clause seven will talk about the fresh start agreement
:50:57. > :51:00.and giving unequivocal support to the rule of law and to work
:51:01. > :51:07.collectively to achieve a society free of paramilitary for. Clause
:51:08. > :51:11.eight introduces a similar undertaking by all members of the
:51:12. > :51:19.assembly -- assembly. Clause nine talks about the commitment of it
:51:20. > :51:24.can't relent, with assembly consent to increase fiscal transparency in
:51:25. > :51:35.executive budgets. That's helping the executive to deliver affordable
:51:36. > :51:44.and sustainable budgets. If I may take a back to talk on a new pledge
:51:45. > :51:49.introduced for all MLS that they can not participate in any procedures
:51:50. > :51:52.and do anything with the assembly unless they have taken this new
:51:53. > :52:00.pledge. However when they have taken the new pledge, what do they do to
:52:01. > :52:08.be faithful to honour and who actually decides? Not shooting of
:52:09. > :52:11.any sanctions for the actions of MLA is an matter for the assembly rather
:52:12. > :52:17.than for the legislation here today and for this chamber. I am grateful
:52:18. > :52:22.to the Honorable Lady for her intervention. Going back to Clause
:52:23. > :52:27.nine, it provides that the Northern Ireland Executive Finance Minister
:52:28. > :52:37.will have a duty to specify... Thank you this doesn't deputy speaker I'm
:52:38. > :52:43.very sorry to... In response by the Secretary of State. Clause eight
:52:44. > :52:51.Ashley goes on to say that standing orders should provide the procedure,
:52:52. > :52:54.given the ever taken, that there will be standing orders passed by
:52:55. > :53:02.the assembly about sanctions for those MLS who do not honour so it
:53:03. > :53:06.must be this legislation. I did not mean my answer to sound flippant or
:53:07. > :53:12.not serious at all but it remains the case that the bill does not
:53:13. > :53:15.provide for sanctions nor does the fresh start agreement. In terms of
:53:16. > :53:20.internal matters of discipline within the assembly, that really is
:53:21. > :53:26.an matter for the assembly is held to determine. What I can provide is
:53:27. > :53:30.further clarification for this, obviously an individual who refuses
:53:31. > :53:35.to give the undertaking will be able to participate in assembly
:53:36. > :53:43.proceedings or received any of the privileges. I returned to Clause
:53:44. > :53:46.nine. It provides that the Northern Ireland Finance Minister will have a
:53:47. > :53:52.duty to specify to the assembly the amount of government funding
:53:53. > :53:56.available. The Minister will then need to show when delivering aid
:53:57. > :54:01.draft a budget the amount of government funding required by that
:54:02. > :54:13.draft budget does not exceed the amount specified. She agreed that
:54:14. > :54:17.the provisions that were outlined to the extent here. Should members not
:54:18. > :54:24.take their oath here and they receive privileges and benefits here
:54:25. > :54:29.and are not excluded, maybe we should be learning something from
:54:30. > :54:34.the situation in Northern Ireland. I am very much aware of his concerns
:54:35. > :54:38.and his parties about such matters and of course the issues relating to
:54:39. > :54:41.the privileges and expenses are house business and he and his
:54:42. > :54:46.colleagues are welcome to praise them at any time for the House to
:54:47. > :54:54.consider those matters. Of course we are looking at short money on those
:54:55. > :54:57.matters as well. Just to take another step back in relation to the
:54:58. > :55:03.cross borders task force, I understand the meeting was held in
:55:04. > :55:10.December 2050 to establish that. Can you clarify for us today how often
:55:11. > :55:15.that passport will meet or is scheduled to meet? I think we need
:55:16. > :55:20.to distinguish between the ministerial meeting which was a one
:55:21. > :55:24.off from the agency task force which will meet regularly. I don't know
:55:25. > :55:28.that it has scheduled a timetable of meetings as yet. I'm sure once it
:55:29. > :55:33.does I can supply him with details of that. One would expect it to meet
:55:34. > :55:37.regularly to come to its important work. I know that the membership is
:55:38. > :55:45.being formulated. So it is already cracking on with its work. Yes.
:55:46. > :55:51.Certainly. Would she agree with me that the cross-border cooperation
:55:52. > :55:55.and the issues of organised crime are made much easier if the Republic
:55:56. > :56:00.of Ireland and Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK are members of
:56:01. > :56:02.the European Union? What I was wondering when that subject would
:56:03. > :56:07.come up. LAUGHTER . I can assure him that there are a
:56:08. > :56:10.whole range of reasons why the relationship between the UK and
:56:11. > :56:17.Ireland has improved massively over recent years. So Mr Speaker that
:56:18. > :56:22.outlines the main features of the short but important piece of the
:56:23. > :56:26.Northern Ireland legislation. Thank you for giving way Secretary of
:56:27. > :56:31.State. There is one area that is not in this bill. Can a security Terry
:56:32. > :56:37.of state informed us or confirm for us when the legacy bill will be
:56:38. > :56:40.coming forward because there aren't many people through northern Ireland
:56:41. > :56:47.who are deeply grieving and want to know when those proposals will come
:56:48. > :56:50.forward. Well the honourable member raises a very important issue which
:56:51. > :56:56.I was about to come onto. Sadly I will not be able to give her a date
:56:57. > :57:01.for presentation of that legislation but I shall go into and I am
:57:02. > :57:04.determined to work as hard as I can to build the consensus necessary to
:57:05. > :57:07.allow us to introduce that legislation. I agree with her that
:57:08. > :57:13.is very important that we press ahead. So Mr Speaker I must put on
:57:14. > :57:18.record my gratitude to her majesties opposition to agreeing to a somewhat
:57:19. > :57:22.faster than usual passage for this legislation through the House. This
:57:23. > :57:28.should enable measures related to the pledge of offers the undertaking
:57:29. > :57:33.and the extension of time available, to be in place in time for the new
:57:34. > :57:37.assembly when it meets in May. It will enable the new independent
:57:38. > :57:42.reporting commission to be established as soon as possible. I
:57:43. > :57:45.am very conscious of the honourable ladies pointed there are important
:57:46. > :57:48.elements in the storm and house agreement that are sadly not in the
:57:49. > :57:59.building we are discussing today. I refer of
:58:00. > :58:04.Given that this legislation is going to be fast tracked, can the
:58:05. > :58:09.Secretary of State give an undertaking that the legacy bill
:58:10. > :58:12.will not be fast tracked and her commitment to building consensus
:58:13. > :58:17.will take proper consideration of victims and not just being cobbled
:58:18. > :58:21.between parties? I think any to reflect on that but I would
:58:22. > :58:26.definitely agree with them that the legacy bill is very much in a
:58:27. > :58:28.different category to these two pieces of legislation, the one that
:58:29. > :58:34.we are looking at today and the welfare legislation. So in those
:58:35. > :58:37.circumstances, we should do everything in our ability to make
:58:38. > :58:40.sure everything has a normal timetable though if you allow me, I
:58:41. > :58:44.will not give an absolute undertaking on that for the purposes
:58:45. > :58:47.of today, but I think if we get to the stage of being able to present
:58:48. > :58:52.that else a parliament, it is highly likely we want to proceed with it on
:58:53. > :58:58.the basis of an ordinary timetable rather than an expedited one rather
:58:59. > :59:02.than the -- given the circumstances. Returning to those legacy bodies, as
:59:03. > :59:07.I set out in my speech in Belfast on the 11th of February, we remain
:59:08. > :59:10.committed to establishing these bodies. We have a manifesto
:59:11. > :59:14.commitment to do that. We will continue with our efforts to build
:59:15. > :59:18.consensus needed to allow us to present legislation to this house.
:59:19. > :59:25.We have made more progress than any of our predecessors in getting close
:59:26. > :59:29.to and achieving an agreement on the past. We are now closer than ever in
:59:30. > :59:33.resolving the main outstanding problems standing in the way of
:59:34. > :59:40.getting these new bodies set up and operating. I am going to continue to
:59:41. > :59:44.engage with the political parties in Northern Ireland, with victims and
:59:45. > :59:49.survivors, and with those who represent and I'm particularly
:59:50. > :59:53.grateful for the commission of victims and survivors and trying to
:59:54. > :59:56.facilitate this process and working hard to try with me to build
:59:57. > :00:02.consensus for these new bodies will stop I give way. Just on the legacy
:00:03. > :00:10.issue, would she agree with me that one element of the legacy issue that
:00:11. > :00:14.is paramount in the minds of many survivors is that under no account,
:00:15. > :00:18.under no circumstances, must Northern Ireland going forward be
:00:19. > :00:22.presented as a case of those who are perpetrators of violence are treated
:00:23. > :00:27.in the same weight as those who are innocent victims of that very
:00:28. > :00:31.violence? I entirely agree with them. We on this side of the House
:00:32. > :00:35.will not accept a rewrite of history. I think we should always
:00:36. > :00:42.recall that the dedication and sacrifice made by both the I you see
:00:43. > :00:46.and services in Northern Ireland, we should salute that sacrifice and in
:00:47. > :00:50.the vast majority of cases, the members of the security forces
:00:51. > :00:55.perform their duties with the outmost integrity and
:00:56. > :00:59.professionalism. I also want to pay tribute to the dignity and
:01:00. > :01:05.determination with which victims and survivors approach these matters
:01:06. > :01:09.under discussion of the legacy. I have been deeply moved on many
:01:10. > :01:13.occasions when I met victims and survivors to hear of their
:01:14. > :01:18.experiences and tragedies. I have welcomed the chance to meet many of
:01:19. > :01:22.them over my years of Secretary of State. They have divergent views on
:01:23. > :01:27.a number of issues but almost all of them are agreement that the current
:01:28. > :01:30.mechanisms for tackling legacy cases are not working as they should. The
:01:31. > :01:35.legacy bodies proposed in the Stormont House agreement will not be
:01:36. > :01:39.perfect and sadly, even when they are set up, they will not provide
:01:40. > :01:43.every answer to every question. Sadly there is no set of solutions
:01:44. > :01:48.that we can devise here in Stormont that could ever achievement. --
:01:49. > :01:53.achieved that. But there is a significant better outcome for
:01:54. > :01:57.victims and survivors in the status quo and for that reason, we will
:01:58. > :02:02.continue to pursue them with diligence and dedication. As a
:02:03. > :02:05.result of the Stormont house and Fresh Start Agreement, I think
:02:06. > :02:10.politics in Northern Ireland are probably more stable now than they
:02:11. > :02:13.have been in the past three years. Economically, while there was
:02:14. > :02:19.undoubtedly some heartbreaking news from a place last week, it is still
:02:20. > :02:23.the case that there are 46,000 more people in work since 2010 and the
:02:24. > :02:28.unemployment register is down by more than 40% since its peak in
:02:29. > :02:33.2013. The Fresh Start Agreement also takes us closer to the point when we
:02:34. > :02:36.are able to complete the transfer of Corporation tax powers to the
:02:37. > :02:41.executive and move which I believe could have a transformative effect
:02:42. > :02:43.on the economy there. As we go forward, there'll continue to be
:02:44. > :02:49.difficulties and challenges, I hardly need to remind the House that
:02:50. > :02:52.despite some success in suppressing their activities, the threat from
:02:53. > :02:57.distant Republicans is severe and the need for vigilance is constant.
:02:58. > :03:03.We are also of cores approaching some very sensitive since injuries,,
:03:04. > :03:08.iterations that could have deferred meanings for different parts of the
:03:09. > :03:12.community. But Northern Ireland is entering 2016 more positively than
:03:13. > :03:15.for some time. For our part, the government remains determined to
:03:16. > :03:19.deliver its manifesto commitment to help build a brighter, more secure
:03:20. > :03:22.future for Northern Ireland, this bill is intended to help that
:03:23. > :03:28.process and I commend it to the House. The question is that the bill
:03:29. > :03:35.be read a second time. Thank you very much. Can I welcome the
:03:36. > :03:45.Secretary of State to the debate. I hope she stays in.
:03:46. > :03:51.LAUGHTER Mr Deputy Speaker, this bill delivers some of the key
:03:52. > :03:56.aspects of the 17th of November 2015 fresh start and indeed the 2014
:03:57. > :04:03.Stormont House agreement. These agreements sent a financial pass
:04:04. > :04:07.Bell impasse in Northern Ireland that exposed us to the very real
:04:08. > :04:11.possibility of a return to direct role, which would have been
:04:12. > :04:17.disastrous. It is therefore of course very welcome. An interest in
:04:18. > :04:23.the sun since the bill. It is crucial that we stress the
:04:24. > :04:26.importance of economic development, the Secretary of State herself
:04:27. > :04:30.announced that the job losses in Bob RDA last week were a terrible blow
:04:31. > :04:33.to advanced manufacturing in Northern Ireland. And a personal
:04:34. > :04:37.tragedy for those losing their jobs as well as families. Who will now of
:04:38. > :04:43.course be seeking employment elsewhere. Jobs in Northern Ireland
:04:44. > :04:45.across the UK is crucial as the strength of the economy and
:04:46. > :04:54.opportunity helps to deliver progress. Of course the place
:04:55. > :04:57.investigates and eight -- works in a competitive market and that market
:04:58. > :05:01.is not as strong as we would like. However the government has a
:05:02. > :05:07.responsibility. So what is the government doing to support those
:05:08. > :05:10.who remain at Anbar DA. And what is the government doing to make sure
:05:11. > :05:15.those people are finding employment as swiftly as possible. And when the
:05:16. > :05:22.Minister of state comes up can he say more about that, what I've --
:05:23. > :05:25.what steps she and he will be having the rest of the government to
:05:26. > :05:31.encourage more direct foreign investment into Northern Ireland? Mr
:05:32. > :05:35.Deputy Speaker as we begin to discuss the bill, let's also remind
:05:36. > :05:41.ourselves that the previous 12 months in Ireland have not been
:05:42. > :05:46.easy. In the summer on the budgetary stalemate on the issue of welfare,
:05:47. > :05:50.that led to a political crisis which required all of the skill and
:05:51. > :05:55.commitment of those involved to get an agreement which would break the
:05:56. > :06:00.stalemate that existed. And allow progress to be made. I have said
:06:01. > :06:04.before, and want to put on record again, all of those involved
:06:05. > :06:07.including the Secretary of states, all of the parties in Northern
:06:08. > :06:11.Ireland, many of whom represented here and many of the members are
:06:12. > :06:15.represented. And the Irish government, they all deserve huge
:06:16. > :06:21.credit for achieving the Fresh Start Agreement. Without, as I said, there
:06:22. > :06:26.is a real risk of the collapse of devolution or its return to direct
:06:27. > :06:29.role. Either of which will have been unthinkable. I know there was huge
:06:30. > :06:32.disappointment as well that no agreement could be reached as we
:06:33. > :06:36.have heard on how to deal with the past. I and many others raise this
:06:37. > :06:43.issue in the House over the last few weeks and months. However, I know
:06:44. > :06:46.that progress was made. I am glad the Secretary of State has said and
:06:47. > :06:50.reiterated that now is not the time to give up but to try and build on
:06:51. > :06:54.the progress that has been made while recognising the challenges and
:06:55. > :06:57.difficulties that remain. The publication of the draft treaty on
:06:58. > :07:02.independent commission on information, which I think was very
:07:03. > :07:08.welcome, not only to show the direction of travel, but also to
:07:09. > :07:14.show how much progress was made indeed in the talks. Victims must be
:07:15. > :07:20.at the heart of any future agreements. And the heart of any
:07:21. > :07:23.agreement. That is clear to us all. The recent allegations in respect to
:07:24. > :07:26.various atrocities of the past demonstrate more than ever the need
:07:27. > :07:32.for process to be agreed. But victims must feel that they are not
:07:33. > :07:36.locked out of any progress and that is why I urge the Secretary of State
:07:37. > :07:40.to be as transparent as possible, even where difficulty remains, and
:07:41. > :07:44.as we continue to seek an agreement. Can I also say to the Secretary of
:07:45. > :07:47.State, given an agreement has not been reached on how to deal with the
:07:48. > :07:56.past and could not be included in this bill, we do need to look at the
:07:57. > :08:00.resources available to the corner services and others to support
:08:01. > :08:05.investigations to speed up the inquests that they continue to be
:08:06. > :08:13.required to do. More and more delay for victims is unacceptable. Would
:08:14. > :08:16.my honourable friend agree as I do with the first Minister of Northern
:08:17. > :08:23.Ireland who said that we need to get real about the investigations into
:08:24. > :08:26.these legacy cases. The PSI investigate within the budget
:08:27. > :08:31.constraints and they have to prioritise and they are doing more
:08:32. > :08:34.and more and they should receive funding from here, not having to
:08:35. > :08:39.take from their own resources to deal with the legacy of the past? I
:08:40. > :08:45.agree very much with the point that my honourable friend has made. I
:08:46. > :08:49.agree with the first Minister and others in Northern Ireland to have
:08:50. > :08:53.pointed out that notwithstanding the agreement has not been reached at
:08:54. > :08:59.how to deal with the legacy issues, the coroners office and others are
:09:00. > :09:02.still required to deal with the consequences of these issues. And
:09:03. > :09:06.therefore given that the Secretary of State has now put aside money,
:09:07. > :09:11.pending any agreement, surely it would be acceptable to give some of
:09:12. > :09:14.this money to those bodies to reflect on the continuing work that
:09:15. > :09:17.they have to do in trying to investigate and resolve some of the
:09:18. > :09:22.difficulties that they face. I think that is a perfectly reasonable
:09:23. > :09:26.request that has been made. I know she will not be able to answer that
:09:27. > :09:29.now but I think it is something the Secretary of State and the Minister
:09:30. > :09:35.of State with the government should consider in order to take forward.
:09:36. > :09:40.The Fresh Start Agreement does make it clear that the 150 million
:09:41. > :09:45.package to support legacy is linked to the establishment of the new
:09:46. > :09:50.bodies but, we are listening carefully to the representations
:09:51. > :09:53.made in particular to the inquests. If a form package for inquests will
:09:54. > :10:01.put together than we put together the inquests funding to support it.
:10:02. > :10:05.I think that is a helpful response from the secretary of state and I
:10:06. > :10:07.think everybody in this house and in Northern Ireland would have heard
:10:08. > :10:13.what she has just said and the implication of it is that she is
:10:14. > :10:16.open to making money available, both to the PSI and to the corner
:10:17. > :10:20.services in order to take this forward. I think the victims would
:10:21. > :10:24.expect that. They know it is difficult to come to an agreement in
:10:25. > :10:29.respect to how to do with the past, the institutions or proposed
:10:30. > :10:33.institutions are there. But at the agreement is not yet reached but the
:10:34. > :10:38.work has to be taken forward. Given that the money is there, we would
:10:39. > :10:42.support the Secretary of State in any sub micro point she has to make
:10:43. > :10:47.to the secretary to micro Treasury to support that work and to enable
:10:48. > :10:50.it to take place as soon as possible. I think people in Northern
:10:51. > :10:53.Ireland would expect that to happen as soon as possible as well and the
:10:54. > :10:58.have heard with the Secretary of have heard with the Secretary of
:10:59. > :11:02.State has just said. It has been a habit of dealing with Northern
:11:03. > :11:06.Ireland legislation in one day in this house. We believe that should
:11:07. > :11:12.only be the case when it is truly urgent. We support the emergency
:11:13. > :11:15.procedure, with respect to welfare reform, but I promised the Secretary
:11:16. > :11:20.of State that when I resume this role that we would maintain a bar
:11:21. > :11:24.pies and approach based on the approach of consent. -- bipartisan.
:11:25. > :11:28.I hope we have demonstrated that commitment. I want to make it clear
:11:29. > :11:32.to an expedited procedure, not to an expedited procedure, not
:11:33. > :11:36.emergency process. This allows members of this house and colleagues
:11:37. > :11:44.more time to consider the bill while still making it possible for us to
:11:45. > :11:47.obtain a sense of the forthcoming Northern Ireland elections. Can I
:11:48. > :11:51.say to the Secretary of State, my ascension is that any legislations
:11:52. > :11:55.of consent motion around this bill will be forthcoming in the necessary
:11:56. > :12:00.time. This will ensure that measures relating to the pledge, the
:12:01. > :12:05.undertaking, and the time available from the ministerial appointments
:12:06. > :12:08.are in place in time for the good ministerial return. Something I am
:12:09. > :12:16.told the parties themselves are keen to see happen. Can I support in a
:12:17. > :12:22.moment the point that the honourable member made about legacy issues were
:12:23. > :12:26.this to come before the House in due course. I think he made a fair and
:12:27. > :12:30.reasonable point about that given the importance and significance of
:12:31. > :12:33.that. I think anybody in Northern Ireland expect that to go through
:12:34. > :12:42.the due process and not be speeded up in any way given its significance
:12:43. > :12:47.and importance. I am grateful for the intervention. I would just like
:12:48. > :12:51.to ascertain whether her Majesty's opposition will be tailing
:12:52. > :12:58.amendments to make... That there will be a sanction for the MLA is
:12:59. > :13:04.who make the pledge, take the seats, and do not abide by the pledge.
:13:05. > :13:07.There is a code of ministerial responsibility and there are
:13:08. > :13:13.sanctions. But after this bill, there are no sanctions at all, it is
:13:14. > :13:21.an obvious gap in the draft. The honourable Lady, I am going to say
:13:22. > :13:25.something about those pledges. I think she is right in the sense of
:13:26. > :13:29.whether we table amendments or not, she is right to ask for
:13:30. > :13:33.clarification and the remarks I am making, I will quote one of the
:13:34. > :13:36.pledges, which has a qualification at the end of it to ask what that
:13:37. > :13:42.specifically means and I think the honourable Lady is absolutely right
:13:43. > :13:46.to ask questions about what these pledges actually mean and what
:13:47. > :13:49.happens in the case, given even excepting that it is Stormont
:13:50. > :13:55.business, I think it is right these questions are asked in this house.
:13:56. > :14:00.Mr Deputy Speaker, the bill would establish an independent commission
:14:01. > :14:03.as per progress being made toward the paramilitary activity in
:14:04. > :14:07.Northern Ireland. This is the key aspect of the bill, paramilitary
:14:08. > :14:10.activity is almost acceptable -- entirely uninhabitable but we have
:14:11. > :14:13.to consider in committee what progress has been made already and
:14:14. > :14:18.why this initiative will work when others have not. How progress will
:14:19. > :14:21.be judged and what happens when progress stalls. I would like to say
:14:22. > :14:24.to the Secretary of State a number of issues that will have to be
:14:25. > :14:28.exported in committee is the issue of disclosure will arise as the
:14:29. > :14:33.Secretary of State is required by the bill to issue guidance on how
:14:34. > :14:36.the national security and individuals are protected. ATX
:14:37. > :14:40.donation will be needed on this issue so that problems which prevent
:14:41. > :14:42.an agreement in the House to deal with the pass will not happen again
:14:43. > :14:50.and prevent the commission from working effectively or working at
:14:51. > :14:54.all. The bill as the honourable Lady mentioned also nullifies the pledge
:14:55. > :14:56.of office to be taken by the Northern Ireland ministers. The
:14:57. > :15:02.revised pledge would include fresh obligations to work together on
:15:03. > :15:07.shared objective of removing all forms of paramilitary groups and
:15:08. > :15:10.activity. The Bill introduces a parallel activity for members of
:15:11. > :15:15.assembly against something to be welcome to demonstrating the
:15:16. > :15:20.peaceful pursuit of change and progress. I just use one example,
:15:21. > :15:24.the revised pledge includes commitments and the committee stage
:15:25. > :15:27.I think members might want to see further explanation about the detail
:15:28. > :15:34.of these pledges. For example, one of the commitments says to ask that
:15:35. > :15:38.no authority, directional control, on political activities other than
:15:39. > :15:44.my democratic mandate alongside my own personal and party judgement. I
:15:45. > :15:48.think the committee may have a qualification in that pledge
:15:49. > :15:52.explained fully. The bill also extends the period allowed for the
:15:53. > :15:56.Northern Ireland ministers will visibly is selected from seven to 14
:15:57. > :15:59.days and this will hopefully allow more time for programme of
:16:00. > :16:05.government to be agreed. It also makes provisions to allow trips --
:16:06. > :16:09.fiscal transparency and the delivery of sustainable budget. In other
:16:10. > :16:14.words it will need to clearly set out with the UK government is
:16:15. > :16:18.providing an terms of the spending is how to be funded. I look forward
:16:19. > :16:31.to some interesting discussions on that one. Does he therefore accept
:16:32. > :16:40.that on principle, if a member in this house does not take their oath,
:16:41. > :16:45.that therefore the privileges in this house should entirely be
:16:46. > :16:47.removed from them? As the Secretary of State, of course this is house
:16:48. > :16:51.business but you would expect anybody as a member of this house to
:16:52. > :16:59.have committed themselves to the Democratic pursuit to democracy and
:17:00. > :17:01.to the pursuit of decisions through Jim -- democratic means. That is
:17:02. > :17:09.expected from everybody in this house. So he accepts our principal,
:17:10. > :17:14.would he then from the normal channels, through the government
:17:15. > :17:19.bring a motion to this house and finally resolve the anomaly that
:17:20. > :17:24.exists that allows Irish Republicans to benefit from privileges in this
:17:25. > :17:27.house without taking the oath? That is house business and I cannot
:17:28. > :17:31.commit myself to that but I believe the honourable member has heard what
:17:32. > :17:35.I have to say about that and as I say, it is something that we would
:17:36. > :17:40.expect all members of this house to commit themselves to the democratic
:17:41. > :17:52.process and to democracy. I think that is what all of us have done. I
:17:53. > :17:54.was talking about the budget and the perks -- promoting fiscal
:17:55. > :17:58.transparency for a sustainable budget, I think this'll be another
:17:59. > :18:05.area that will need to be in committee. To conclude, Northern
:18:06. > :18:09.Ireland is not out of conflict, it is coming out of conflict. Huge
:18:10. > :18:16.progress has been made but challenges remain. Paramilitary
:18:17. > :18:21.activity still hangs over too many communities and impacts on too many
:18:22. > :18:25.people. This activity, whether public or otherwise never had it
:18:26. > :18:33.place in society and has no place now. The bill represents a split
:18:34. > :18:37.towards the principal at the heart of any democracy. The rule of law is
:18:38. > :18:43.paramount in every community. Law and force by the police is subject
:18:44. > :18:48.to an independent judiciary. The success of this bill, the new
:18:49. > :18:55.pledges, and independent commission, which will be judged on how far they
:18:56. > :18:59.bring back all about. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to make a
:19:00. > :19:05.fairly brief intervention in this debate. Before I do so I wonder if
:19:06. > :19:14.you would allow me to for a few seconds refer to and pay tribute to
:19:15. > :19:18.my constituency who just a few days ago died very suddenly. --
:19:19. > :19:22.constituents. He worked with me for 14 years and took a particular
:19:23. > :19:27.interest in matters in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland,
:19:28. > :19:32.helping me quite a bit with my work on the select committee but also as
:19:33. > :19:38.co-chairman of British Irish commentary assembly. His death is a
:19:39. > :19:44.stunning shock and my heart goes out to his parents, Ryan and Maureen, so
:19:45. > :19:48.I hope it is in order for me to give the greatest tribute to him possible
:19:49. > :19:53.today. I think I'll honourable members know how much we depend on
:19:54. > :19:57.our staff and when their personal friends as well, such a loss at the
:19:58. > :20:04.age of 49 is really a terrible situation. Thank you. Can I pay
:20:05. > :20:11.tribute to the Secretary of State for the work that she has done in
:20:12. > :20:16.getting us to this point. I think I know how difficult it was back in
:20:17. > :20:19.September I think it was, when it really did look like the
:20:20. > :20:26.institutions in Northern Ireland may collapse. I know how much work she
:20:27. > :20:31.put into it and her dedication was total, she is absolutely determined
:20:32. > :20:36.that institutions would not collapse, we would in fact find some
:20:37. > :20:39.degree of agreement, and a solution which would enable us to move
:20:40. > :20:43.forward and the fact that we are here today demonstrates that she was
:20:44. > :20:54.successful in that. I want to pay tribute to her and her team and the
:20:55. > :21:00.very hard work that she put into it. Somebody in my position before it
:21:01. > :21:04.was select committee Chairman, I served as shadow Minister for five
:21:05. > :21:09.years I think it was. During some of that time, we dealt with some awful
:21:10. > :21:14.legislation in committee of stairs. Statutory instruments, making badges
:21:15. > :21:18.-- making major decisions on behalf of Parliament and people in Northern
:21:19. > :21:22.Ireland. And on many of those occasions, at the beginning of the
:21:23. > :21:26.stooges I was making, I did say how wrong and inappropriate it was to
:21:27. > :21:31.government province and that way. But we really did face the prospect
:21:32. > :21:40.of going back to that situation. That worried me and frightened me.
:21:41. > :21:44.It came about as a result of a couple of murders in Northern
:21:45. > :21:49.Ireland, tragic murders, and the linkage between those murders and
:21:50. > :21:53.people who were allegedly in the assembly or people in the assembly
:21:54. > :21:57.were allegedly sympathetic to that kind of activity. I am very pleased
:21:58. > :22:02.that this bill today makes it very clear that there is no place at all,
:22:03. > :22:06.either in this place or the assembly of Northern Ireland, for people who
:22:07. > :22:09.hold those beliefs. The famous statement we heard many years ago,
:22:10. > :22:18.the chilling statement, that would proceed with the... Those days are
:22:19. > :22:22.long gone. Anybody who tries to practice that or tries to carry out
:22:23. > :22:27.politics in that way really should be imprisoned, deprived of their
:22:28. > :22:29.liberty. There is no place in the Northern Ireland Assembly for those
:22:30. > :22:33.kinds of people. We would not in this place want to work on
:22:34. > :22:39.committees in this house or anywhere else with people who by day are in
:22:40. > :22:43.the debating chamber and that night on the streets causing problems and
:22:44. > :22:47.trouble, wreaking havoc. We would not accept that in this place and it
:22:48. > :22:51.should not be accepted in Northern Ireland so I am pleased that this
:22:52. > :22:59.bill paves the way for removing that kind of behaviour. I appreciate the
:23:00. > :23:02.point that he is making that sometimes you do have to stop and
:23:03. > :23:10.pinch yourself and recognise how far Northern Ireland has gone in the
:23:11. > :23:13.last number of years. The point he is making about Northern Ireland
:23:14. > :23:16.politicians taking decisions about the needs of the people of Northern
:23:17. > :23:21.Ireland is actually emphasised today. There has been something like
:23:22. > :23:23.26 amendments on the floor of the Northern Ireland Parliament today
:23:24. > :23:27.being voted on and consulted and considered by Northern Ireland
:23:28. > :23:32.elected representatives and that shows, instead of things being taken
:23:33. > :23:35.to committee rooms here, the decisions of people by the Northern
:23:36. > :23:40.Ireland representatives on the floor of the assembly are very prosperous
:23:41. > :23:45.and good opportunities. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman
:23:46. > :23:47.from making that point, he was able to exercise far stronger than I was
:23:48. > :23:53.able to the importance of assembly functioning. The great problem when
:23:54. > :23:59.we saw committee taking decisions just by the nature of this house,
:24:00. > :24:02.there were a few people in this committees from Northern Ireland. So
:24:03. > :24:06.the decisions were taken by people like myself and many other people
:24:07. > :24:09.from English constituencies with very few representatives from
:24:10. > :24:14.Northern Ireland so he is right to make that point. I think dealing
:24:15. > :24:21.with the paramilitary aspirant, that is the most urgent aspect but there
:24:22. > :24:26.are other issues as well which are in the bill today. One was the
:24:27. > :24:29.agreement of the budgets. I have said this before, when we have a
:24:30. > :24:34.situation where we have co-chairing rather than a straight Democratic
:24:35. > :24:38.situation like we have in this house, where we have a power-sharing
:24:39. > :24:42.situation, we all know why we have it and it brought people together.
:24:43. > :24:47.But if there is a compromise their and there has sometimes to be a
:24:48. > :24:53.compromise, whether in the way that the Northern Ireland Assembly does
:24:54. > :24:56.possess, that have to be times where executives take their stances, make
:24:57. > :25:00.their points, their objections, but at the end did the day, the House
:25:01. > :25:04.has to be in agreement because there've there is no agreement, if
:25:05. > :25:09.the views of the petition of concern and both sides have used it to
:25:10. > :25:12.excess, that is not actually going to be very helpful. If we cannot get
:25:13. > :25:18.agreement on important issues such as the budget, then we really do
:25:19. > :25:23.face the rather dark prospect of the institutions collapsing, as we
:25:24. > :25:28.almost saw and are now being brought back to the House. That is not
:25:29. > :25:34.something I want to see. When he is referring to the issues that reached
:25:35. > :25:38.consensus and agreement that was reached on, we agreed that the issue
:25:39. > :25:44.of cooperation tax was one that reached eventually consensus. When
:25:45. > :25:47.people were looking forward and are looking forward to the prospect of
:25:48. > :25:50.potentially tens of thousands of jobs being created in Northern
:25:51. > :25:57.Ireland. How does he feel about the delay that was caused in reaching
:25:58. > :26:04.the consensus, principally to Northern Ireland and UK membership
:26:05. > :26:09.that curtailed that for many years. The gentleman makes a good point, I
:26:10. > :26:13.would make two comments in response. When the select committee looked at
:26:14. > :26:19.this issue, it was the first issue would look that in my chairmanship
:26:20. > :26:25.in 2010. We found the committee was not unanimous in its support for
:26:26. > :26:29.involving the responsibilities for cooperation tax, but all the parties
:26:30. > :26:33.in general were in favour of it. So cooperation tax was one of the few
:26:34. > :26:37.issues that every part of Northern Ireland agreed with the policy on.
:26:38. > :26:41.That was a real positive and the honourable gentleman not afraid is
:26:42. > :26:45.absolutely right. We had done something about it then -- could
:26:46. > :26:48.have done something about it. The tax rates in Northern Ireland could
:26:49. > :26:53.have been changed in 2010 or long before that, if that had not been
:26:54. > :26:57.for our membership in the European Union. I am not sure how far out the
:26:58. > :27:02.Deputy Speaker will allow me to pursue that argument, but the point
:27:03. > :27:11.made by the gentleman, or even if we wanted to reduce tourism in Northern
:27:12. > :27:13.Ireland, that would not be legal under European union rolls. There
:27:14. > :27:18.are a number of ways looking at membership of EU and we spent two
:27:19. > :27:21.and a half hours on it earlier and I do not think we'll be able to spend
:27:22. > :27:35.too much longer on it now but the point he makes is absolutely right.
:27:36. > :27:40.There is always Thursday. I was just making the point that I accept the
:27:41. > :27:43.petitions of concern have been used on both sides and that there has not
:27:44. > :27:48.actually been very helpful in coming to an agreement on important issues.
:27:49. > :27:52.I know that it's often sending legislation but I do know the
:27:53. > :27:56.present -- fresh start agreement to address that point and for the
:27:57. > :27:59.request and a very strong way that is not a facility with which should
:28:00. > :28:04.be abused for the reasons we have given. Mr Deputy Speaker, I don't
:28:05. > :28:09.wish to detain the House any longer but this bill is a small bill. I
:28:10. > :28:15.think it is a very important Bill. It moves us in the right direction
:28:16. > :28:18.and again I thought mama and congratulate the secretaries of
:28:19. > :28:25.state not only for introducing this bill but also on the amount of hard
:28:26. > :28:29.work she has put in. Mr Deputy Speaker thank you I will be brief in
:28:30. > :28:36.order to allow time for other members to contribute to the debate.
:28:37. > :28:39.There were a lot of people who would rather see this whole process fail
:28:40. > :28:43.than succeed. They have their reasons and there is some form of
:28:44. > :28:47.logic that defend that position. It is however the right of the people
:28:48. > :28:51.to govern themselves to take decisions close to home and to
:28:52. > :28:55.protect their fees. In the case of Northern Ireland, that is a piece
:28:56. > :29:00.which was fashioned relatively recently and with great expense and
:29:01. > :29:04.his harried by continued undercurrent by the minorities. We
:29:05. > :29:11.should note that the political leaders on all sides of the debate
:29:12. > :29:15.of northern Ireland do have a legacy to address that may cause them some
:29:16. > :29:20.long and uncomfortable beds in the times ahead. They must however find
:29:21. > :29:22.a way to put the history of the communities in context when there
:29:23. > :29:29.look into the future of those communities. The skies of yesterday
:29:30. > :29:32.cannot be allowed to become open once again. It seems to me that that
:29:33. > :29:37.is the hardest task they face no matter what happens in this place.
:29:38. > :29:41.The land has paid a heavy price for being what it is and where it is.
:29:42. > :29:48.The communities that belong to the land have paid a heavy price for
:29:49. > :29:54.ideology and in transit fees over the years. This chamber has seen
:29:55. > :29:57.many debates, questions, and angry exchanges which at times seemed to
:29:58. > :30:03.pay little or no attention to the lies being affected and often lost.
:30:04. > :30:08.This bill is a step forward in providing it is by accepted storm.
:30:09. > :30:12.There is no magic wand to wave. But a collective movement will allow the
:30:13. > :30:16.politicians of storm and more freedom for the direction of travel.
:30:17. > :30:21.It is they that must address the legacy issues and address at
:30:22. > :30:24.BellSouth and London. The storm and should decide on the domestic
:30:25. > :30:29.programmes to serve their people. They will operate under some severe
:30:30. > :30:34.financial restrictions but they will at least have control over the tech
:30:35. > :30:39.session they will need. The devolution of corporation tax, the
:30:40. > :30:43.in all be able to decide tax rates and incentives for companies
:30:44. > :30:46.companies as well as individuals. I see no reason why the other devolved
:30:47. > :30:52.administration should not have the same power. There are gaps that have
:30:53. > :30:56.open between the points of the storm and house agreement and the fresh
:30:57. > :31:00.start agreement and this bill. I welcome the Bill and the forward
:31:01. > :31:03.momentum it takes to keep going. I congratulate the team that has
:31:04. > :31:10.brought it this far. I assume that these were not the easiest days.
:31:11. > :31:15.Gratitude should go to those in this chamber who have played a positive
:31:16. > :31:19.and forward-looking role in this process. The secretary of state of
:31:20. > :31:23.course and particularly those members here who represent
:31:24. > :31:26.constituencies in Northern Ireland. But while acknowledging the efforts
:31:27. > :31:33.of the administrators on this side of the Irish seat, we should also
:31:34. > :31:36.acknowledge the efforts of their counterparts in Dublin. Throughout
:31:37. > :31:42.the preprocessor and the development of devotion they have been vital to
:31:43. > :31:46.deliver the possibility of a peaceful and prosperous future. I
:31:47. > :31:49.think we should note that in this year of remembrance for the Irish
:31:50. > :31:53.nation, the people of Northern Ireland who suffer the effects of
:31:54. > :31:57.the troubles and continue to suffer them now, in the form of higher
:31:58. > :32:02.unemployment and a legacy of arrested community development, who
:32:03. > :32:05.I associate myself very much with the comments made by the Secretary
:32:06. > :32:10.of state about economic development, nothing will change that overnight.
:32:11. > :32:19.We are and at least looking in the right direction now. The S
:32:20. > :32:23.supports the passage of this bill. Element thank you Mr Deputy Speaker
:32:24. > :32:33.and I will begin by welcoming the introduction on the second reading
:32:34. > :32:36.to bid on this bill. We of course on these benches support the bill and
:32:37. > :32:39.the proposal to fast-track the legislation. Cannot command the
:32:40. > :32:47.Secretary of State or her speech to the House. I have to say there were
:32:48. > :32:52.a number of very wise statement that she has been making in relation to
:32:53. > :33:01.Northern Ireland and I commend her on all of those statements. Hear,
:33:02. > :33:06.hear!. Mr Deputy Speaker is a general rule we are keen to see the
:33:07. > :33:12.fullest possible parliamentary scrutiny of legislation affecting
:33:13. > :33:16.northern Ireland. In the past we have passed legislation on an
:33:17. > :33:21.emergency basis. Quite often this was unavoidable. It was nevertheless
:33:22. > :33:27.understandable. We all accept, for the reasons that the honourable
:33:28. > :33:32.gentleman has outlined, this was not the best way in which to operate. He
:33:33. > :33:36.has illustrated that this evening. It was often the result of some
:33:37. > :33:40.breakdown or failure of the political process of Northern
:33:41. > :33:43.Ireland. We're glad to say that this bill does not fall into that
:33:44. > :33:49.category. This bill has actually been brought forward as a result of
:33:50. > :33:52.political agreement, not political disagreement or crisis. It is based
:33:53. > :33:57.on the political agreement last November and there been considerable
:33:58. > :34:02.consultation and work in the Northern Ireland Assembly and with
:34:03. > :34:04.the Northern Ireland Executive so that we can reach the stage that we
:34:05. > :34:11.are today. Of course this legislation should be born and is
:34:12. > :34:17.only part of the implementation process of the storm and agreement.
:34:18. > :34:22.There is a long list of issues which were agreed and which are all being
:34:23. > :34:26.progressed and implemented either in the assembly, through this house, or
:34:27. > :34:30.directly administered by the executive and other agencies. The
:34:31. > :34:38.Secretary of State has set those out. The executive for northern
:34:39. > :34:43.Ireland has already agreed the legislation consent motion should
:34:44. > :34:46.come forward to the assembly for the clauses of all matters. I understand
:34:47. > :34:52.that that legislative consent which will come before the assembly will
:34:53. > :34:57.happen in mid-March. I am confident Mr Deputy Speaker that despite the
:34:58. > :35:01.need to fast-track the legislation, we will have the opportunity for
:35:02. > :35:04.adequate consideration. It is important that a number of the
:35:05. > :35:12.measures that are introduced by this bill are in place so that when the
:35:13. > :35:16.assembly elections are held, and the results come in, that everything is
:35:17. > :35:18.in place for the new term of the assembly and the new executive to
:35:19. > :35:28.operate under the new legislation without any hiccup or delay or any?
:35:29. > :35:31.Over it. In particularly the probation in agreement of a
:35:32. > :35:37.programme for government stand in the period to appoint ministers and
:35:38. > :35:41.new paragraph for a pledge of office and undertaking for a malaise. Those
:35:42. > :35:50.are all absolutely essential that this House does with those before
:35:51. > :35:54.the assembly in March. Thank you. I am very grateful to the right
:35:55. > :36:01.honourable gentleman. In light of the recent controversy around the
:36:02. > :36:07.scrutiny of MLA expenses, unfortunately the damage that that
:36:08. > :36:14.does public confidence, I went with the right honourable gentleman agree
:36:15. > :36:20.that this bill would be inappropriate way in which we could
:36:21. > :36:24.introduce in Northern Ireland and institutions comparable and rebuild
:36:25. > :36:34.public confidence in the procedures in Northern Ireland? If that is a
:36:35. > :36:40.whole other area of debate. We will hold much argument and discussion in
:36:41. > :36:45.this house I'm sure. We discussed some time ago and could not get
:36:46. > :36:50.agreement. The First Minister of Northern Ireland gave a speech on
:36:51. > :36:52.Friday night outlining again the importance of transparency and on
:36:53. > :36:57.this matter being dealt with and taken forward in precisely that way.
:36:58. > :37:03.We have to say whether this bill is the right time to do that, remains
:37:04. > :37:06.to be seen. That would require consultation and agreement within
:37:07. > :37:10.Northern Ireland. It could happen and I would encourage parties to do
:37:11. > :37:18.that. I think it is important that the confidence is maintained in the
:37:19. > :37:20.integrity of the assembly. We in this house knows what it is to have
:37:21. > :37:25.gone through that type of controversies, so we want to ensure
:37:26. > :37:32.that teens are progressed properly and openly with the most
:37:33. > :37:37.transparency. You get stuck when they did do reporting about the
:37:38. > :37:41.instances of the Northern Ireland reaching, overall they found a
:37:42. > :37:51.satisfactory situation. Nevertheless we need to ensure that whatever
:37:52. > :37:55.steps need to be taken to introduce transparency, I would be in support
:37:56. > :38:01.of that and our party supports that. I think others will agree to that as
:38:02. > :38:04.well. Mr Deputy Speaker this bill as the secretary of state has said
:38:05. > :38:10.seeks to implement aspects of the fresh start agreement. The fresh
:38:11. > :38:15.start agreement does represent a new beginning for politics. . I'd
:38:16. > :38:23.totally recreate what about what you said for the situation in Northern
:38:24. > :38:28.Ireland people have seen an agreement can be made and it is most
:38:29. > :38:32.difficult things can get done when there is an agreement and we need to
:38:33. > :38:38.move forward. We must continue to build on that as we move forward.
:38:39. > :38:41.That wasn't exactly possible to resolve every issue especially in
:38:42. > :38:44.relation to the past. We have a discussed that and we'll discuss
:38:45. > :38:48.that in much greater detail. Of course that is in the bill. We
:38:49. > :38:53.should be discussing what is in the bill. Our party would like to say
:38:54. > :38:57.again that we are quite happy for the details on how far we have
:38:58. > :39:05.gotten for all of that to be published. All of the people who
:39:06. > :39:09.were affected as conceived openly how much work has been done and how
:39:10. > :39:12.much progress has been made. They can also see where the gaps are and
:39:13. > :39:17.what needs to be done in conclusion. But to issues that threatened
:39:18. > :39:26.imminent destruction of dilution of that time -- dilution of that time
:39:27. > :39:32.and paramilitary violence, whose manners have been addressed agreed,
:39:33. > :39:37.and dealt with, are subject to provisions in this bill. The
:39:38. > :39:42.resolution of the welfare reform issue was an extremely important
:39:43. > :39:45.issue. The importance of resolving that cannot be underestimated. This
:39:46. > :39:49.was the single most important issue from a financial aspect to be
:39:50. > :39:56.resolved by the assembly to function. Even after the fresh start
:39:57. > :40:02.agreement, there were still members of this house and members of the
:40:03. > :40:05.assembly who were opposing the implementation of the agreement.
:40:06. > :40:11.They did not seem to recognise that without a budget that would actually
:40:12. > :40:18.measure up and be sustainable, you just cannot continue with the
:40:19. > :40:23.involution. There are politicians in northern Ireland who have grappled
:40:24. > :40:26.with difficult problems and sat down through dialogue and come to an
:40:27. > :40:32.agreement and sensible outcomes. I am very pleased at the end of the
:40:33. > :40:38.day this house was able to take forward the welfare and reforms and
:40:39. > :40:45.the Northern Ireland Assembly has been able to agree that the
:40:46. > :40:48.mitigations in some of the enhancements to the welfare system
:40:49. > :40:55.will be able to proceed as well. That is very important of course.
:40:56. > :41:02.What we have is a welfare system which is not something that we in
:41:03. > :41:05.this bench would have in -- to find but recognises the strength of the
:41:06. > :41:15.parameters in which we have to operate financially. So Mr Deputy
:41:16. > :41:24.Speaker, I am pleased that all the major targets under the storm and
:41:25. > :41:30.Andy Fresh Start Agreement are being met and deadlines are being kept.
:41:31. > :41:33.Unlike the micro one of 2014, I believe there is every reason to
:41:34. > :41:40.expect that every aspect will be implemented in full. On the welfare
:41:41. > :41:46.reform agreement I think it is important that the recommendations
:41:47. > :41:51.that came in under budget and will be if a man by the assembly. This
:41:52. > :41:57.will allow more money to be spent in other areas. The executive may pass
:41:58. > :42:01.the budget for next year ahead of time and has been dealt with by the
:42:02. > :42:07.assembly as it should. Because of the paramilitary violence issue, the
:42:08. > :42:14.panel on paramilitary issues has been set up man has begun its work.
:42:15. > :42:18.They are trying to tackle paramilitary and is him and crime
:42:19. > :42:22.that happened before Christmas. The executive has also been very seized
:42:23. > :42:28.of the importance of progressing because at the end of the day we
:42:29. > :42:32.have made very clear that when crisis occur we are not prepared to
:42:33. > :42:36.sweep these matters under the carpet. They must be faced by
:42:37. > :42:43.everyone. We want to seek Northern Ireland move forward. There must be
:42:44. > :42:46.a commitment not only in words about democracy but practice as well. We
:42:47. > :42:51.in these benches and back in the assembly have been elected as
:42:52. > :42:56.representatives of the people and will not allow these matters to be
:42:57. > :43:02.in north. We will not allow these matters to be used as a political
:43:03. > :43:06.football for point scoring. We are serious about these issues and want
:43:07. > :43:10.them addressed and addressed properly. I am glad Mr Deputy
:43:11. > :43:15.Speaker that the executive has agreed for the production of
:43:16. > :43:21.corporation tax rates that commenced on April 20 18. The reduction to
:43:22. > :43:27.12.5% is an extremely important additional -- addition to the range
:43:28. > :43:31.of attractions that the invest Northern Ireland team will be able
:43:32. > :43:41.to go out to promote across the world to possible investors. I very
:43:42. > :43:45.much welcome our gratitude to the government for their support for
:43:46. > :43:52.this matter. There are many parties and people who get up in Corporation
:43:53. > :43:56.tax. Our party never gave up on it. Some people said that if it was not
:43:57. > :44:02.over and done with it would never have happened. We did not give up on
:44:03. > :44:08.it. I want to pay tribute to the former First Minister of Northern
:44:09. > :44:11.Ireland, Peter Roberts. He is very important and recognised the value
:44:12. > :44:16.of having this in place. I want to play tribute to him for the work
:44:17. > :44:21.that he did in making this fresh start agreement happen. His
:44:22. > :44:24.commitment to ensuring that there would be stability in terms of
:44:25. > :44:30.dilution cannot be underestimated, and he deserves a amount of credit
:44:31. > :44:33.for this agreement. The corporation tax was something he felt very
:44:34. > :44:42.strongly about an hour party has always believed in. I am glad that
:44:43. > :44:45.this is now proceeding. When the new Mr of goes to New York and
:44:46. > :44:49.Washington and the West Coast in March, along with the Deputy First
:44:50. > :44:55.Minister and others, the strength of her argument to invest in northern
:44:56. > :45:00.Ireland has been greatly increased as a result of this agreement. She
:45:01. > :45:03.can point to the coming of this tax reduction is another reason why
:45:04. > :45:09.there should be investment in Northern Ireland. The legislation in
:45:10. > :45:12.relation to reducing the number of MLA and re-organizing and reducing
:45:13. > :45:17.the number of government departments is also nearing completion. As we
:45:18. > :45:21.hear tomorrow there will be further debate on that. The assembly has
:45:22. > :45:24.passed a resolution to allow unofficial opposition to be created
:45:25. > :45:28.that this work has been taken forward by the assembly and the
:45:29. > :45:32.authorities. Nominations have been softened the parties and
:45:33. > :45:36.applications often the public. This is regarded to the flags commission.
:45:37. > :45:46.We expect that to be completed by the March. All in all the progress
:45:47. > :45:54.in relation to the Fresh Start Agreement has been very very
:45:55. > :46:02.positive. This has heralded a better atmosphere and the micro one things
:46:03. > :46:06.are getting done. Mr Deputy Speaker it is an interesting comment with
:46:07. > :46:13.the media that when there is a holdup the assembly and a massive
:46:14. > :46:19.issue of confrontational and political issues and visit 99, there
:46:20. > :46:22.is a massive tension and a mass of commentaries. We don't hear the same
:46:23. > :46:27.reporting and level of discussion in the media and on the radio and on
:46:28. > :46:36.television when things are actually getting done day by day. When
:46:37. > :46:41.legislation is being passed is as if nothing is happening at all. There
:46:42. > :46:46.is no reporting at all hard fiscal. I don't hear any of it. I think it
:46:47. > :46:49.isn't even interesting commentary on how sometimes good news and positive
:46:50. > :46:56.development and progress is underreported massively. Anything
:46:57. > :47:01.negative in Northern Ireland is given much attention. I think it is
:47:02. > :47:08.worth reminding that other members have already said that we do have to
:47:09. > :47:12.sometimes pulled the record at the distance of where Northern Ireland
:47:13. > :47:17.has come from. The progress that has been made from the backward steps
:47:18. > :47:23.and the ups and downs, we have made enormous progress. The political
:47:24. > :47:27.institutions which came back after this the boundary agreement has
:47:28. > :47:38.provided an much more stable environment. I believe it that needs
:47:39. > :47:41.to be celebrated. The store that will appear in tomorrow's newspaper
:47:42. > :47:55.will be a photograph of a number of members in this chamber. Such a
:47:56. > :47:59.class story weekend week out. There is just interest when Northern
:48:00. > :48:05.Ireland is being discussed compared to when issues of the European Union
:48:06. > :48:09.are being discussed. Mr Deputy Speaker in relation to these issues
:48:10. > :48:22.I will say quality not quantity is what matters. If the press and the
:48:23. > :48:27.media. Hear, hear!. LAUGHTER. Every single member that is here is of the
:48:28. > :48:31.highest quality I have to stay. I certainly welcome those who are here
:48:32. > :48:35.for this debate, particularly members from constituencies outside
:48:36. > :48:40.of Northern Ireland and those we serve on the select committee and to
:48:41. > :48:43.have taken an interest in Northern Ireland matters. Their support and
:48:44. > :48:51.interest in northern Ireland is greatly wrecked -- welcome and we
:48:52. > :48:57.value that indeed. I have already commented on some of the issues of
:48:58. > :49:06.press and media reporting. Mr Deputy Speaker there are. We can go into
:49:07. > :49:11.detail on independent reporting commission and other matters. As the
:49:12. > :49:17.second debate, but there will be more opportunities on the floor of
:49:18. > :49:23.the House. I welcome the cooperation that there has been between the
:49:24. > :49:29.government and the opposition from the bench at how this bill should
:49:30. > :49:33.proceed. Parliamentary scrutiny should happen and as I say we
:49:34. > :49:39.understand the reasons why this needs to be fast tracked. This is
:49:40. > :49:43.not a crisis but a sense of wanting to make sure progress continues to
:49:44. > :49:48.be made and is in place before the assembly election. We wish this bill
:49:49. > :49:52.well. In fact those that have been as possible for the agreement and
:49:53. > :49:58.bring it forward and those that have worked so hard to bring the second
:49:59. > :50:05.reading of the bill to fruition. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I want
:50:06. > :50:10.to speak briefly on the bill and what I perceive to be a number of
:50:11. > :50:21.flaws. I think we need to address is at the next age. Parliament --
:50:22. > :50:23.paramilitary activity continues to be a problem for our society in
:50:24. > :50:30.Northern Ireland not just for our own constituency but there were some
:50:31. > :50:37.gunned down in the last 12 months. Such events but may not be as common
:50:38. > :50:44.as they once were. But they still exist and they still happen in our
:50:45. > :50:49.streets. These to issues are a stark reminder that paramilitary activity
:50:50. > :50:54.still exists. Merely to days after the good Friday agreement was
:50:55. > :50:58.signed. The talks that led to this bill and throughout we were very
:50:59. > :51:05.clear that a whole community approach is imperative. To rule out
:51:06. > :51:12.paramilitary activity for once and for all. Parties that seem to
:51:13. > :51:18.indulge in any type of parliamentary activity. Under any circumstances at
:51:19. > :51:22.any time should not be limited to certain groups were certain
:51:23. > :51:29.individuals or activity for certain constituencies. There should be no
:51:30. > :51:33.exclusions. It requires an unequivocal and universal
:51:34. > :51:46.condemnation and a united front by all Democratic Party. Any
:51:47. > :51:49.paramilitary behaviour or structure are an affront of democracy not just
:51:50. > :51:53.for Northern Ireland or anywhere else that may exist and should not
:51:54. > :52:01.be accepted. From our perspective the blight continued and obstructed
:52:02. > :52:10.and undermined in every opportunity for economic recovery and this is an
:52:11. > :52:13.economic imperative that we desperately need in Northern Ireland
:52:14. > :52:16.and the light of some of the needs of the last couple of weeks. The
:52:17. > :52:21.pledge proposed by the bill to be undertaken by ministers of MLA is in
:52:22. > :52:28.the right direction. The content of that pledge I would argue requires
:52:29. > :52:34.further scrutiny to protect in transition that move away from
:52:35. > :52:37.paramilitary activity. We in the STL T fully realise that ridding our
:52:38. > :52:45.society of paramilitary activity will by no means be an overnight
:52:46. > :52:52.process. The support transition has been allowed and cannot be allowed
:52:53. > :52:56.any further and to become quiet tolerance or seen as the degree of
:52:57. > :53:03.tolerance to paramilitary activity. Mr Speaker I can move along, the big
:53:04. > :53:08.absence of this bill is of course a reference to the legacies of the
:53:09. > :53:13.past and particularly issues pertaining to legacy. We have made
:53:14. > :53:20.our views clear on this. The victims and survivors and their needs must
:53:21. > :53:28.be paramount. Claims about national security preventing disclosure can
:53:29. > :53:33.not and must not... There is no degree to block every effort to
:53:34. > :53:39.block the truth or transparency. Northern Ireland society can not
:53:40. > :53:43.just move on and forget about the past. They cannot abandon the heart
:53:44. > :53:48.and needs of the victims and survivors. The wounds of the past
:53:49. > :53:53.must be healed and the victims and survivors across our society I
:53:54. > :54:01.believe have waited for to long. For many of them this bill or another
:54:02. > :54:06.bill if it's coming we would like to see it sooner rather than later, is
:54:07. > :54:10.the last chance and last real chance for any sort of meaningful truth and
:54:11. > :54:17.genuine justice. It is perfectly understandable that so many of these
:54:18. > :54:21.people still enormously let down. They feel let down by the shortfalls
:54:22. > :54:30.not just here but of other bills in the past. Dealing with the past and
:54:31. > :54:38.the legacy of the past, has been far to much of a piece exercise. We will
:54:39. > :54:43.work to amend this bill at the backstage and then the other bill
:54:44. > :54:47.that may emerge. We will amend it in the context of the needs of the
:54:48. > :54:50.victims and survivors and the needs of communities that have been
:54:51. > :54:58.blanketed and tortured by paramilitary activity. Mr Deputy
:54:59. > :55:02.Speaker there are other bits of this bill that we would welcome some
:55:03. > :55:05.reference in it to some of the issues that have been left out. We
:55:06. > :55:13.would like to see much greater progress on dealing with flag
:55:14. > :55:17.parading. These are proponents of disturbance and they are also an
:55:18. > :55:24.addition to dealing with the legacy of the past. The Secretary of State
:55:25. > :55:29.raise the issue referring to the economy. We don't talk during the
:55:30. > :55:33.talks of storm a house about the need for an overall comprehensive
:55:34. > :55:39.economic recovery strategy and prosperity strategy but somewhere it
:55:40. > :55:46.has been forgotten about. Yes corporation tax has been mentioned.
:55:47. > :55:50.We talked of corporation tax 20 years ago and have fully supported
:55:51. > :55:53.over 20 years between. But there is an issue of corporation tax.
:55:54. > :56:01.Corporation tax will not do everything. There is a desperate
:56:02. > :56:03.need for third level education, training, apprenticeships, and
:56:04. > :56:11.skills development to go along with it. This will develop a better
:56:12. > :56:14.economy. Secretary of State I would be keen if there have been some
:56:15. > :56:21.mention or reference to the economy and the prosperity process included
:56:22. > :56:27.here. I know there are issues that you want to do with urgently. But
:56:28. > :56:39.there are needs regarding the economic situation. The economic
:56:40. > :56:43.needs are dire. I just want to say that like Northern Ireland the UK
:56:44. > :56:48.Government is committed to increasing first rarity in Northern
:56:49. > :56:52.Ireland. What we do together is the economic tag and this is the main
:56:53. > :56:55.vehicle. Just because it was nice person referred to in the Fresh
:56:56. > :57:00.Start Agreement, does not mean we won't bring that about. Thank you
:57:01. > :57:05.Secretary of State for that reassurance. I would look forward to
:57:06. > :57:10.further stages of this bill and the opportunity to flesh it out and
:57:11. > :57:14.amended in the places where appropriate, to ensure that the fill
:57:15. > :57:21.is as comprehensive as possible and does all that it is expected
:57:22. > :57:27.May I start with getting hours of the to the owner memo -- honourable
:57:28. > :57:33.member for losing has a sensitive and huge thanks to him and many
:57:34. > :57:39.members before who have helped, whether it is through the committee
:57:40. > :57:43.or other ways, there are a mass of people always trying to help us get
:57:44. > :57:45.somewhere. I welcome the legislation today although I have doubts and
:57:46. > :57:51.still have doubts in various areas as we go through. We did feel at the
:57:52. > :57:55.time that it was a sticking class rather than a chance to have a
:57:56. > :58:00.rebirth of Stormont, although I welcome the changes that are going
:58:01. > :58:05.on. But we'll wait to see whether they are really get there and I am
:58:06. > :58:11.speaking touch on the changes and things we would like to see in this
:58:12. > :58:15.bill or concerns that I would like to raise when it comes to the
:58:16. > :58:22.appointing of the Independent reporting commission by the DSM. We
:58:23. > :58:25.think that should be expanded, too much of what happens in Northern
:58:26. > :58:30.Ireland is done by the two main parties, we think we should be
:58:31. > :58:32.finding a different way, whether through the Northern Ireland
:58:33. > :58:39.appointments commission, it to be something that moves away from just
:58:40. > :58:44.two main parties. I welcome in it that they guidance will be left in
:58:45. > :58:49.place the Secretary of State, I that is necessary to have some body
:58:50. > :58:54.outside of ourselves that would help move us along. Although I realise it
:58:55. > :58:58.is a poison chalice and in time what made need the wisdom of a Solomon.
:58:59. > :59:02.But we do need guidance at time. I know it falls on our shoulders most
:59:03. > :59:06.of the time, but it's something I have always been pushing since I got
:59:07. > :59:12.here, we must not have a devolved and forget. We must have Westminster
:59:13. > :59:15.working with Stormont and working together, not leaving things to
:59:16. > :59:21.Stormont when they get stuck but actually working through with it.
:59:22. > :59:25.One of the key points and I am hoping to see it in the bill, is the
:59:26. > :59:30.change from seven to 14 days to try and get a programme for Government
:59:31. > :59:35.in place. I think for that, we must remember it that the honourable
:59:36. > :59:39.member said when he was leader of the party, who actually put that
:59:40. > :59:45.idea forward to try and get a longer time to try and get the different
:59:46. > :59:49.ministers all chosen but in line with the overall programme for
:59:50. > :59:56.government and I hope that 14 days will actually get that. And if there
:59:57. > :59:59.is any doubt it would be with the Secretary of State looking to get in
:00:00. > :00:02.place something that can make that happen. It is not just ministers but
:00:03. > :00:09.a joint programme for government well into the future. I very much
:00:10. > :00:14.welcome everything to do with trying to remove Holloman and Tip --
:00:15. > :00:22.paramilitaries for Northern Ireland and they were very much a kind
:00:23. > :00:25.raising this to the top the House. But I would like the secretary of
:00:26. > :00:29.state and minister to make clear exactly what is meant by
:00:30. > :00:33.paramilitary because as this moves on and forward in legislation, I am
:00:34. > :00:37.sure that is where we are going to find mandate of our difficulties. Is
:00:38. > :00:42.someone knocking on a door when it comes to bonfires asking for funding
:00:43. > :00:46.to help pay for the bonfire, all they going to be told that they are
:00:47. > :00:51.paramilitaries? There are a whole lot of weight areas that need to be
:00:52. > :00:57.clarified. -- grey areas. Dusan putting of the union flag him to be
:00:58. > :01:01.a paramilitary because over numerous years before us, the union flag
:01:02. > :01:05.which should be a flag of all of us were not offensive to anyone has
:01:06. > :01:08.been turned for some members of the community into a sectarian flag
:01:09. > :01:12.which it should not be. Therefore is someone who is putting up that flag
:01:13. > :01:15.going to be treated as a paramilitary? We need clarity in the
:01:16. > :01:22.future and we need to talk our way through. In one story that happened
:01:23. > :01:26.in my area, boys were going to take the standards into the local church
:01:27. > :01:32.and they were refused from taking the union flag into the church due
:01:33. > :01:40.to one party blocking it and saying it was sectarian. We need to stop
:01:41. > :01:44.that from happening. Other clarity points, I am very lucky when I
:01:45. > :01:47.started off the council to go to France with a group of what would
:01:48. > :01:53.have been known as the bonfire groups. We had in those days,
:01:54. > :01:57.120,000 to clear up after the bonfires and we had 11 different
:01:58. > :02:01.groups, who all did not talk to each other, all could be called community
:02:02. > :02:05.stronger titles than that but by stronger titles than that but by
:02:06. > :02:10.going away from that, it allowed us to get them talking to each other,
:02:11. > :02:16.find forward and commonalities existing and in time produce --
:02:17. > :02:20.reduce the number of bonfires, not all of them, and the next time it
:02:21. > :02:25.only cost 40,000 to clear up. We have to be absolutely clear, our MLA
:02:26. > :02:28.is and others who are talking about this, we will see if they are being
:02:29. > :02:38.deemed as paramilitaries to be dealing with paramilitaries when we
:02:39. > :02:44.may need clarity on that. I touched on -- a member from North Downs and
:02:45. > :02:51.touched on this. We need teeth and something that will allow us to
:02:52. > :02:54.enforce whether MLA, ministers or others are actually abiding with
:02:55. > :02:57.some way to enforce that in the some way to enforce that in the
:02:58. > :03:03.future. It is something we ought do together. I agree with what has been
:03:04. > :03:09.raised before and and had been discussed whether we should try to
:03:10. > :03:13.get IDSA into this bill because it is essential that we get something
:03:14. > :03:17.much better into Northern Ireland because if you talk to some able in
:03:18. > :03:21.Northern Ireland they find that expenses were not controlled and do
:03:22. > :03:25.not think that anyone except responsibilities when they have done
:03:26. > :03:30.anything wrong. There is so much that gives that with corruption and
:03:31. > :03:33.things not being right, we have to have some form of teeth and this
:03:34. > :03:38.seems to do it extremely well. So let's try to get it in. When it
:03:39. > :03:42.comes to the opposition, it is great to hear that there is movement from
:03:43. > :03:47.the opposition in the Northern Ireland but I feel we may need to
:03:48. > :03:52.look at how one or two things in this bill that allows us to improve
:03:53. > :03:55.on the opposition and improve on whether it is the finance, how
:03:56. > :04:01.committees amend, so that we can get something that really is proper and
:04:02. > :04:05.we have to be very careful on how we deal with that and we all need to
:04:06. > :04:10.work together. When it comes to the Legacy issues, I long to see that
:04:11. > :04:14.happening. I know we had differences of the time, at least it needs to be
:04:15. > :04:19.done quickly, but not so fast that we do not get the chance to talk and
:04:20. > :04:22.have our say. But it is vital that Northern Ireland finds a way forward
:04:23. > :04:27.that moves us away from all of the legacy issues to something that is
:04:28. > :04:35.really going to thrive and we can build on it together. We had many
:04:36. > :04:40.mention of corporation taxes as we mentioned before, corporation tax is
:04:41. > :04:47.not the silver bullet. We have a mass of other things to do together,
:04:48. > :04:51.we want Corporation taxes. It is a difference on how corporation tax
:04:52. > :04:53.was actually going to work, some of them here really slowed it up but
:04:54. > :04:59.let us get something else in place, better infrastructure, changes, I
:05:00. > :05:09.whole muscle changes coming. I look forward on that build being a start
:05:10. > :05:14.to Northern Ireland improving. Could I first of all page should be up to
:05:15. > :05:20.the Secretary of State and to the Minister for the work done to bring
:05:21. > :05:24.forward this bill, having been involved in much of the negotiations
:05:25. > :05:32.in the past, I would say in all honesty, I think at times we should
:05:33. > :05:35.give merit where it is due. The Secretary of State has gone way over
:05:36. > :05:39.my estimation in terms of the very clear stance she has taken on
:05:40. > :05:44.issues, both in the public domain and privately around the negotiating
:05:45. > :05:47.table. She has done so with great clarity and I think that is
:05:48. > :05:51.something to be welcomed from a Secretary of State. I am very
:05:52. > :06:01.eagerly supported by the Minister as well. But I also pay tribute to Mark
:06:02. > :06:06.who worked for my honourable friend, I had the pleasure of meeting marked
:06:07. > :06:11.on a number of occasions including when he took an interest in Northern
:06:12. > :06:16.Ireland and I know that Lawrence and his team will feel his loss very
:06:17. > :06:22.deeply and we extend on our side of the House our sympathy to the
:06:23. > :06:29.honourable member for two Experian and to Mark Boss family. Tackling
:06:30. > :06:35.paramilitary -ism is an important element of this agreement. It is
:06:36. > :06:40.something that is long overdue. We as a party have pressed time and
:06:41. > :06:46.time again for the paramilitaries to leave the stage and at times I have
:06:47. > :06:51.listened to their spokespersons in the media bag about their
:06:52. > :06:57.contribution to the police process but deliver little by way of
:06:58. > :07:04.actually taking the steps that are necessary. They have been far too
:07:05. > :07:09.long begrudging about the necessary steps of organizations needing to be
:07:10. > :07:14.taken and they have continued to straddle the fence between democracy
:07:15. > :07:22.and the rule of law on one side and continued involvement in criminality
:07:23. > :07:26.and sadly, at times, in murder. One of the reasons we had the crisis
:07:27. > :07:32.last year in Northern Ireland, the political crisis was precisely
:07:33. > :07:41.because of that continued vomit in criminal activity and in carrying
:07:42. > :07:45.out murders as the honourable member reminded us. Those murders took
:07:46. > :07:51.place in his constituency. We need to be absolutely clear that there is
:07:52. > :07:56.no room for ambiguity, no room for grey areas, straddling the fence
:07:57. > :08:03.involvement in criminality and involvement in criminality and
:08:04. > :08:07.paramilitary -ism. We deserve better in Northern Ireland and that is why
:08:08. > :08:10.it is vital that we continue to pursue this agenda which the
:08:11. > :08:26.Stormont agreement marks a very significant step in taking it
:08:27. > :08:38.forward. I know the honourable gentleman is condemning paramilitary
:08:39. > :08:42.-ism whatever shape or form,. I would like the right honourable
:08:43. > :08:47.gentleman to put on record his thanks and many things that people
:08:48. > :08:54.that we have just completed yet another search for the remains of
:08:55. > :08:58.Lisa who disappeared 11 years ago, murdered by those with paramilitary
:08:59. > :09:04.connections. The family have never had her returned for a Christian
:09:05. > :09:10.burial and her mother died brokenhearted and I am grateful to I
:09:11. > :09:18.honourable Desmond for his stance on paramilitary. I think the honourable
:09:19. > :09:27.member for her intervention and she of course speaks of the individual
:09:28. > :09:32.and personal family suffering of the victims of paramilitary violence and
:09:33. > :09:37.let me be clear, as a party we are clear, that when we refer to
:09:38. > :09:43.paramilitarism being paramilitarism across the political divide, I have
:09:44. > :09:44.the pleasure of taking the Secretary of State and also the saddle
:09:45. > :09:50.Secretary of State to Lisbon to Secretary of State to Lisbon to
:09:51. > :09:54.visit a community project in my constituency where we have worked
:09:55. > :09:58.very hard with those who were previously involved in paramilitary
:09:59. > :10:05.activity to enable them to complete the transition to what is now purely
:10:06. > :10:12.community development work and those communities are being transformed as
:10:13. > :10:16.a result. In my constituency, a community transformed as a result of
:10:17. > :10:20.the transition of those previously involved in paramilitarism to be
:10:21. > :10:26.involved in purely community development and I commend the
:10:27. > :10:29.leadership in Lisbon for what they have done in transforming the
:10:30. > :10:33.community and making the transition that I assure the honourable Lady
:10:34. > :10:38.that is precisely the kind of effort that we need to see taking place in
:10:39. > :10:44.Northern Ireland. It is one of the tragedies of any conflict and our
:10:45. > :10:47.troubles in Northern Ireland that we have families who not only have
:10:48. > :10:52.suffered the loss of a loved one, but have not been able to mourn
:10:53. > :10:58.properly because of their loved ones remains not being returned to them.
:10:59. > :11:04.The family of Lisa is a case and point. And we hope and pray that one
:11:05. > :11:11.day they will at least have the grace of being able to bury the
:11:12. > :11:13.remains of their daughter. I would appeal to people who know where the
:11:14. > :11:19.remains are to get that information to the police and I appeal to them
:11:20. > :11:23.on the grounds of the basic Christian pretzels that even those
:11:24. > :11:28.who have been involved in such wrongdoing should see that it is the
:11:29. > :11:32.right thing and a family should be able to have some degree of closure
:11:33. > :11:39.in terms of at least having their loved one's remains returned. The
:11:40. > :11:42.bill makes provision for the establishment of the Independent
:11:43. > :11:47.reporting commission and we welcome this. The commission is to report
:11:48. > :11:54.annually on progress toward ending continued paramilitary activity and
:11:55. > :11:58.we hope they will shine a spotlight very clearly on the Republican and
:11:59. > :12:03.Loyalist paramilitary groups who are continuing to engage in criminal
:12:04. > :12:08.acts and in acts of violence. It is not only the case that that will
:12:09. > :12:12.apply to Northern Ireland, I think one of the important provisions of
:12:13. > :12:15.this is that it will also apply in Great Britain and in the Republic of
:12:16. > :12:22.Ireland and in recent times we have seen the effects of paramilitary
:12:23. > :12:25.gangster type activity in Dublin, which is unacceptable, and we must
:12:26. > :12:30.all co-operate to ensure that such activity is brought to an end. I
:12:31. > :12:36.hope the good people of the Republic of Ireland to go to the polls in a
:12:37. > :12:39.short time will think long and hard about who they are electing to their
:12:40. > :12:44.national parliament and where they stand on questions like these
:12:45. > :12:49.special criminal Court and the need to bring to an end paramilitarism
:12:50. > :12:58.and gangster activity and criminality wherever it develops and
:12:59. > :13:01.emerges. We also welcome the changes to the pledge of office for
:13:02. > :13:08.ministers for the Northern Ireland Executive. I am crucially a new
:13:09. > :13:17.undertaking which is to be given by all members elected to the assembly
:13:18. > :13:20.after me which will commit them to nonviolence, to supporting the rule
:13:21. > :13:23.of law. We think this is very important and there has not been
:13:24. > :13:27.such an undertaking required in the past, even though it is required for
:13:28. > :13:31.counsellors and noble government and I think the honourable member is
:13:32. > :13:36.absolutely right, we need to be sure that it is not just a question of
:13:37. > :13:39.undertaking but that there are sanctions in place that if members
:13:40. > :13:43.preach that undertaking that they preach that undertaking that they
:13:44. > :13:48.can be held to account. I assure the honourable lady that we will be
:13:49. > :13:50.examining the current standing orders of the Northern Ireland
:13:51. > :13:54.Assembly to see if such a sanction exists and if it does not, we will
:13:55. > :13:59.be prepared to bring forward a supporting amendment to this bill to
:14:00. > :14:08.ensure there is provision for such a sanction. The honourable member has
:14:09. > :14:14.made reference to what has gone on in this bill. It is a matter that we
:14:15. > :14:18.are not yet able to legislate for the provisions of the Stormont House
:14:19. > :14:24.agreement, dealing with legacy matters. Let me be clear. From this
:14:25. > :14:28.side of the House and this party, we support full implementation of the
:14:29. > :14:32.Stormont House agreement. There is nothing that the Democratic Union
:14:33. > :14:37.nest party is doing -- Unionist party. We are all aware that the
:14:38. > :14:43.reason we have not had implementation is because of a stand
:14:44. > :14:47.off, and impasse, which involves the question of national security. And
:14:48. > :14:53.member. When he talks about victims, member. When he talks about victims,
:14:54. > :14:58.I am not just interested in the victims of the past but also Hecking
:14:59. > :15:04.sure we do not have more victims in the future. -- making sure. We take
:15:05. > :15:09.action that compromises the security of our people, when we take actions
:15:10. > :15:13.which bring into the public domain in the manner in which the security
:15:14. > :15:21.forces operate to counterterrorism, then we take risks in Northern
:15:22. > :15:27.Ireland. We create the potential for future victims because sadly not
:15:28. > :15:31.everybody has signed up for the peace process. Not all paramilitary
:15:32. > :15:36.activities are on cease-fire. There are people out there today targeting
:15:37. > :15:39.in my own constituency in the past weeks I have two instances of prison
:15:40. > :15:47.officers having to leave their homes because of the threat from dissonant
:15:48. > :15:52.Republican organizations. The fact that there was knowledge and
:15:53. > :15:58.intelligence that thankfully has prevented those attacks from going
:15:59. > :16:03.ahead tells us that our security services are continuing to operate
:16:04. > :16:08.to prevent loss of life and further victims from being created. I would
:16:09. > :16:16.say to the honourable member from South Belfast that yes, we want the
:16:17. > :16:19.maximum disclosure that is available, but we also need to
:16:20. > :16:25.ensure that the security of the people we represent is protected.
:16:26. > :16:31.Yes, we want the victims of terrorism to have processes that are
:16:32. > :16:36.in place that enable them to have some degree of closure and enable
:16:37. > :16:41.them to have access to justice. To have access to information. But at
:16:42. > :16:47.the same time we must not compromise the ability and security forces to
:16:48. > :16:51.protect the community in Northern Ireland today and to prevent further
:16:52. > :16:55.victims in the future. On the national security issue, we really
:16:56. > :17:00.should not be giving, no Democratic Party should be giving power to
:17:01. > :17:03.those on this issue because we know what the game is. We know it is
:17:04. > :17:09.about rewriting the history of the troubles and it is about pretending
:17:10. > :17:14.against the reality that of all the deaths that have occurred in the
:17:15. > :17:19.troubles, 90% of those killings were carried out by paramilitary
:17:20. > :17:23.organizations. 90%. Yet if you follow the media coverage, reading
:17:24. > :17:27.the newspaper and look at the amount of money spent on investigations and
:17:28. > :17:34.inquests, far more proportionately far more of that resource and media
:17:35. > :17:40.coverage goat on the 10% of deaths that are attributed to the state.
:17:41. > :17:44.Many of them are debts that were a result of the security forces
:17:45. > :17:51.killing people who were engaging in acts of terrorism, but far more
:17:52. > :17:56.emphasis and resource goes on those debts than on the 90% of people.
:17:57. > :18:04.Murdered by it paramilitary organizations. I agree with him
:18:05. > :18:10.about letting the issues of the 90% versus the 10%, but even beyond
:18:11. > :18:14.that, it appears to be the case that in some instances where the
:18:15. > :18:20.provisional IRA atrocities, even those in the main set are trying to
:18:21. > :18:27.be blamed upon the security forces, the police, and the Army. So the
:18:28. > :18:31.abysmal audacity of some people has no bounds whatsoever beyond what the
:18:32. > :18:36.member has declared so far. I think the honourable member for that
:18:37. > :18:48.intervention. He is absolutely right. We see constantly this mantra
:18:49. > :18:54.that is it is not just a question of 90% versus 10% of killings, the
:18:55. > :18:58.state was somehow responsible for directing many of the paramilitary
:18:59. > :19:00.related deaths, no one with any rational thought in their head is
:19:01. > :19:10.going to fall for that absolute nonsense. Of the republican
:19:11. > :19:18.movement. When we consider that there is now an investigation from
:19:19. > :19:27.outside of Northern Ireland into the actions of an agent known as
:19:28. > :19:31.Steakknife, the emphasis is all on the killings that he allegedly may
:19:32. > :19:36.have been involved in but the question for me is, who was
:19:37. > :19:43.directing Steakknife? Who was giving the orders to him to carry out the
:19:44. > :19:47.investigations, these internal investigations of alleged Republican
:19:48. > :19:54.informers. Who was giving the orders? It was the IRA Army Council,
:19:55. > :19:58.some of who we know at the time are now very senior political figures in
:19:59. > :20:01.Northern Ireland. The very same people who point the finger at the
:20:02. > :20:06.Secretary of State and the government, but as I have said
:20:07. > :20:09.recently in a radio interview, there are far more fingers pointing back
:20:10. > :20:17.in their direction when it comes to these issues. I will give way. The
:20:18. > :20:20.audacity of the IRA in this matter I think needs to be highlighted. It is
:20:21. > :20:26.not just something that affects Northern Ireland. We also have the
:20:27. > :20:33.case now affecting murders on the mainland. The Birmingham case, there
:20:34. > :20:36.is an attitude and attempt to blame the security services in England for
:20:37. > :20:43.the Birmingham bombing, that is absolutely atrocious and I think we
:20:44. > :20:50.honourable member for Northampton is honourable member for Northampton is
:20:51. > :20:55.absolutely right. Let me be clear, we apply the same, whether it is
:20:56. > :21:03.Republican related murders or other related murders. We applied the
:21:04. > :21:08.same. The idea that the you BF would be exonerated from the north Ireland
:21:09. > :21:16.killings because of allegations of collusion is just as perverse and
:21:17. > :21:19.absurd as the idea that the IRA would somehow be exonerated from the
:21:20. > :21:25.massacres and murders that they committed in the past. The same
:21:26. > :21:28.applies on both sides. In conclusion, we want to see progress
:21:29. > :21:32.in dealing with the Legacy issues. We want to see the historical
:21:33. > :21:37.investigations unit established with full police to investigate the
:21:38. > :21:40.unsolved murders. As I talk to the innocent victims and they look on
:21:41. > :21:45.what has happened and they feel they are not being given a fair crack,
:21:46. > :21:51.they are not given the opportunity and we must try to move this on. In
:21:52. > :21:56.the interim, I did say before with the Secretary of State, we hope that
:21:57. > :22:00.when the first Minister supported the call for resources that have
:22:01. > :22:06.Artie been sort of micro set aside Artie been sort of micro set aside
:22:07. > :22:11.-- already have been set aside for the him legacy investigation unit
:22:12. > :22:15.though that that money is not coming from Northern Ireland, there is a
:22:16. > :22:21.need for the investigation to continue dealing with current crime
:22:22. > :22:27.and current terrorist threats and therefore we do not want to see the
:22:28. > :22:32.police budget led by continued drawing down of resource toward the
:22:33. > :22:36.legacy cases. They need to be investigated, absolutely, we hope
:22:37. > :22:41.the Secretary of State will listen to what people have said, with the
:22:42. > :22:45.first Minister has said, and allow some of that resource to be freed up
:22:46. > :22:48.to be transferred to the investigators to enable them to do
:22:49. > :22:55.more to help the innocent victims of terrorism. I welcome progress on
:22:56. > :23:05.this bill and piece of legislation this bill and piece of legislation
:23:06. > :23:10.aspects. They have been born for aspects. They have been born for
:23:11. > :23:16.some time. Firstly the continuing action of terrorist activities
:23:17. > :23:20.within Northern Ireland. Beyond Northern Ireland as well. But also
:23:21. > :23:28.as my honourable friend from Southampton has alluded to, there is
:23:29. > :23:33.more time after elections to lead discussions and go one, we hope
:23:34. > :23:37.those two weeks will give more time and I think it would be beneficial
:23:38. > :23:42.for Northern Ireland in the next assembly and beyond that. I look on
:23:43. > :23:51.those as very positive aspects and something to be... The issue of
:23:52. > :23:57.extension of time for negotiations was brought forward by ourselves as
:23:58. > :24:03.far as 2011, five years ago. I am almost tempted to go into some
:24:04. > :24:09.aspects that are not in the bill, but I think I will stay away from
:24:10. > :24:14.that today because you have enough with the bill. Except to say that
:24:15. > :24:17.the legacy issues would not have been dealt with at some stage, --
:24:18. > :24:23.will be dealt with at some stage, but I will say to you and to the
:24:24. > :24:28.Secretary of State that we need quality and fairness within any
:24:29. > :24:30.inquiries and investigations and that is something that has not been
:24:31. > :24:37.seen at the moment. One aspect is seen at the moment. One aspect is
:24:38. > :24:50.that an example, the legacy unit, I understand they have... That is
:24:51. > :24:54.fine. The problem is there is not one officer currently investigating
:24:55. > :25:03.that. There is a huge difference and in balance with the net. -- that.
:25:04. > :25:11.The first aspect of the bill at the moment, that is the issue around
:25:12. > :25:15.commission to look at terrorist activities or paramilitary
:25:16. > :25:18.activities. We must look at the history of some of the immediate
:25:19. > :25:27.history since the agreements have been signed, the Belfast agreement,
:25:28. > :25:31.and the you BF and other terrorist organizations that we mentioned,
:25:32. > :25:40.they have been responsible for some brutal murders. We have just heard a
:25:41. > :25:44.member mentioned, that is a terrible affliction on her family as well. To
:25:45. > :25:50.have to go through that day in and day out. I cannot imagine what that
:25:51. > :25:53.is like. But on the opposite side of Republican movements, and
:25:54. > :25:58.particularly in the IRA who have been responsible for some brutal
:25:59. > :26:03.murders. Let's not forget it has been mentioned in the past that the
:26:04. > :26:09.IRA are extractable is linked with other organizations. You just think
:26:10. > :26:20.of some the murders that have taken place. Denis Donaldson, and more
:26:21. > :26:27.recently Kevin McGuian. One thing that jump-started me is not only the
:26:28. > :26:33.brutality about it but the clinical way those murders were carried out.
:26:34. > :26:39.The planned execution. That could only be done by an organisation of
:26:40. > :26:44.the ability of the IRA. Let's not forget that indeed the chief
:26:45. > :26:51.constable said that the IRA still exists, but the Army Council still
:26:52. > :26:57.exists. That is something that we need to deal with. The issue that
:26:58. > :27:02.the IRA still exists, the Army Council still exists, and our extra
:27:03. > :27:09.googly linked to government. That is a major question that will hang over
:27:10. > :27:16.the executive and the Northern Ireland people for years to come. --
:27:17. > :27:22.inextricably. Indeed someone who may still be a member of the Army
:27:23. > :27:27.Council will have the privilege of being representatives to this
:27:28. > :27:34.commission. Happy to give way. With the member agrees may that he is
:27:35. > :27:39.outlining the case for the IRA being one and the same, would he agree
:27:40. > :27:45.with me that in all probability, in the two weeks after the assembly
:27:46. > :27:47.election, that will remain the case whenever decisions have to be made
:27:48. > :27:57.in the executive barometer? I don't disagree with the Honorable
:27:58. > :28:01.member indeed, this remained the case for some time now, it will
:28:02. > :28:05.continue to remain the case irrespective of what this commission
:28:06. > :28:09.comes up with. I think that will still remain the issue and will
:28:10. > :28:15.still remain a huge? Over some people pause possibility or right to
:28:16. > :28:21.remain a senior member of the executive. But a Deputy Speaker,
:28:22. > :28:26.moving into the second part of the bill which is a pledge of office for
:28:27. > :28:31.administers and undertaking for MLS, and delight that is welcome I
:28:32. > :28:35.suppose, I have major concerns around the effectiveness of it. The
:28:36. > :28:39.Honorable member for North Downs did indicate that she is concerned
:28:40. > :28:44.around a matter of sanctions and how those sanctions will be applied, if
:28:45. > :28:47.there is any at all. I agree with that and whether we can actually do
:28:48. > :28:52.something about that here, may be an issue for the next reading on the
:28:53. > :28:55.committee stages of this bill and the secretary of State will come
:28:56. > :29:01.back with any suggestions around that. But, if there is a bout around
:29:02. > :29:08.the pledge or undertaking, if make any difference at all, I have to say
:29:09. > :29:13.when some people want and murdered in the past, I am not so sure they
:29:14. > :29:16.were taking a pledge of office, ministerial office or taking an
:29:17. > :29:21.undertaking as assembly members who will make much difference to them, I
:29:22. > :29:24.think if they could do that in the past, I didn't think this is going
:29:25. > :29:29.to make a huge amount of difference. Moving on to the third aspect of the
:29:30. > :29:34.legislation which is the commitment on statements within the budget.
:29:35. > :29:39.Agree in the financial provisions and budget this was a major problem
:29:40. > :29:44.within the executive four months, that is why it is welcome that we
:29:45. > :29:48.are trying to progress that matter, in many departments they suffered
:29:49. > :29:56.greatly within that blockage or because of that blockage, health
:29:57. > :30:01.waiting lists rocketed, and infrastructure developments almost
:30:02. > :30:04.came to a standstill, and carrying for the elderly and those for local
:30:05. > :30:09.people were greatly diminished within our society, that is
:30:10. > :30:13.something I suppose that we all feel very sore about, particularly if you
:30:14. > :30:18.were carried within a society that she did not have that help and
:30:19. > :30:21.support because of that critical long-term within a society. Again I
:30:22. > :30:27.come back to the issue of sanctions, we have heard what the sanctions are
:30:28. > :30:31.for the pledge of office and the undertakings. What will be the
:30:32. > :30:35.sanction if the project or financial undertakings are not lived up to as
:30:36. > :30:39.well? That is not appear to be any sanction, it is almost as if this
:30:40. > :30:45.process for those that were delivered, the process and stop the
:30:46. > :30:49.benefit of getting a financial deal for everyone else. In conclusion,
:30:50. > :30:53.Madam Deputy Speaker I do welcome the progress but I will confirm if
:30:54. > :31:01.the proposals in the legislation will deliver on the aspects of
:31:02. > :31:08.terrorism, and commitment to the budgetary and financial resolutions.
:31:09. > :31:14.I will give way. Did he just say that the member should be congrats
:31:15. > :31:18.for the legal case where sanctions were imposed and someone who treated
:31:19. > :31:24.evil about him and the organisation, a very gallant organisation he was a
:31:25. > :31:26.member of, and I think that's the key is demonstrating whether there
:31:27. > :31:31.is a vehicle around and sometimes that is the best sanction. Frankly,
:31:32. > :31:37.the Honorable member I thank him for his comments, obviously it is still
:31:38. > :31:43.running on an rubbing on, yes we have got a sanction of some degree
:31:44. > :31:47.their, and hopefully the assemblies in this house here can provide
:31:48. > :31:50.sanctions. These proposals as well and within this legislation. I will
:31:51. > :31:56.await as many others here will await just to see the outcomes and see the
:31:57. > :32:00.workings of what is being proposed here. I have some concerns as you
:32:01. > :32:11.would appreciate around the workings of some on their particular
:32:12. > :32:14.sanctions,. Thank you letter that I am delighted to participate in the
:32:15. > :32:21.second reading of this bill tonight. And initially I want to offer my
:32:22. > :32:27.condolences to the Honorable member for his bereavement of his staff
:32:28. > :32:29.member and also to my Honorable friend the member in his family
:32:30. > :32:38.bereavement that happened last night. Madam Deputy Speaker, this
:32:39. > :32:46.bill in its generality deals with trying to eradicate paramilitarism.
:32:47. > :32:53.I want to emphasise again as it has already been done so by my Honorable
:32:54. > :33:00.friend, member for South Belfast, over consistent support for
:33:01. > :33:05.political and economic stability throughout Northern Ireland and
:33:06. > :33:10.throat the island of Ireland. What also and above all, our unequivocal
:33:11. > :33:15.opposition to all forms of paramilitarism. Whether it comes
:33:16. > :33:23.from Republicans paramilitaries or loyalist paramilitaries because
:33:24. > :33:29.paramilitarism and what it bad and what its bond created not only
:33:30. > :33:35.instability it created fear, and it also was like a cancer running
:33:36. > :33:45.throughout our society. And there were also other issues because of an
:33:46. > :33:48.age was already referred to by the Honorable Mayor Ashe member about
:33:49. > :33:52.the associated issues, and I can think of one in my own constituency
:33:53. > :34:00.that you referred to. The murder of the innocent men on the 18th of
:34:01. > :34:07.June, 1994. In night I will never forget, because two people that were
:34:08. > :34:10.murdered that night were directly related to my relatives, one an
:34:11. > :34:14.uncle in another a cousin. Therefore in that respect, I know the
:34:15. > :34:22.character of this people, and that they are only political act on any
:34:23. > :34:26.occasion was to register their vote. Never buy a word or a date did they
:34:27. > :34:36.undertake any form of paramilitary activity. But they died at the butt
:34:37. > :34:40.of a gun and it there've therefore I would say to the Secretary of State,
:34:41. > :34:53.that your comments on the 11th of February where in some ways unfair
:34:54. > :34:55.because at the moment it is undertaking and nearing the
:34:56. > :35:02.completion of another inquiry into what happened on that night into why
:35:03. > :35:08.it happened, where there are elements of collusion between the
:35:09. > :35:13.then and those who perpetrated those awful crimes on that night, that
:35:14. > :35:21.robbed the community that I represent, but above all that I need
:35:22. > :35:25.in and irrevocably changed our community. Not towards violence in
:35:26. > :35:32.any form, but left people in a state of fear, a community that had never
:35:33. > :35:37.known any form of violence before. So, that and I would urge the
:35:38. > :35:43.Secretary of State in that respect to be particularly careful because
:35:44. > :35:48.your words are the words of the Secretary of State on that day on
:35:49. > :35:54.the 11th of February could be seen, and could be construed as trying to
:35:55. > :35:59.office gave that inquiry by the police which is near completion.
:36:00. > :36:05.That is the second inquiry because the previous inquiry was
:36:06. > :36:13.inconclusive. In many ways it could be perceived as being deliberately
:36:14. > :36:25.inconclusive. I am happy to give way. I listen very carefully to the
:36:26. > :36:30.Honorable Lady's comments, and that future guard for her and I would
:36:31. > :36:41.just like her to put on record this evening her gratitude which stood
:36:42. > :36:45.between the community that is the whole community of Northern Ireland
:36:46. > :36:54.in absolute mayhem through more than 30 years and 302 are UC officers
:36:55. > :36:58.paid the ultimate price in terms of their lives, I am sure the Honorable
:36:59. > :37:04.Lady right to put on record her gratitude for the sacrifice and
:37:05. > :37:10.courage. Can I thank the Honorable Lady for her intervention, I am very
:37:11. > :37:15.conscious, and we were always opposed to the murder of security
:37:16. > :37:21.forces were that those security forces were in the are UC or whether
:37:22. > :37:26.they were in the EDR, because we saw what that did to them and what it
:37:27. > :37:33.did to their families, and again that type of murder, that type of
:37:34. > :37:37.paramilitarism against members of the security forces was totally
:37:38. > :37:41.unacceptable, was condemned by us at the time, and will always be
:37:42. > :37:45.condemned by us, we are very clear about that. But, if I could move on
:37:46. > :37:50.into other issues, there is a clear need in terms of economic stability
:37:51. > :37:53.and to ensure that economic stability is actually embedded into
:37:54. > :37:58.Northern Ireland. That was referred to by the Honorable friend the
:37:59. > :38:06.member forgetting he referred to issues to do with corporation tax,
:38:07. > :38:11.the loss of jobs, last week and the Honorable member for East Belfast
:38:12. > :38:15.constituency, and other job losses. The most important thing that we
:38:16. > :38:22.have to ensure, that existing economic stability in Northern
:38:23. > :38:25.Ireland is protected. And, I say again, what better way to ensure
:38:26. > :38:33.that is through continued membership of the European Union, because we
:38:34. > :38:39.have already export market in the south of Ireland and the UK has that
:38:40. > :38:43.to ready export market in the south of Ireland. And also been able to
:38:44. > :38:48.trade in terms of the wider common market. I could just ask the
:38:49. > :38:54.Secretary of State to reflect on her position in that respect. But, Madam
:38:55. > :39:00.Deputy Speaker if I could move on to elements within the bill. Clause one
:39:01. > :39:06.subsection four actually deals with the Independent reporting
:39:07. > :39:10.commissions. And Deputy First Ministers can nominate two persons,
:39:11. > :39:14.I would suggest they would need to be a legislative input for the
:39:15. > :39:19.Justice Department despite the character of that independent
:39:20. > :39:24.reporting commissions, and it could be argued that any Northern Ireland
:39:25. > :39:29.nominations should be made by the executive is a collective body are
:39:30. > :39:34.chosen for proposals being made by parties. The issues that fall to
:39:35. > :39:38.that independent reporting commissions concerns issues that
:39:39. > :39:46.brought the parties together in September of last year. Those are
:39:47. > :39:51.for directly to the murders of Jerry Davison in the first week of May
:39:52. > :39:58.last year, and also of Kevin Maguire again in August. Both people resided
:39:59. > :40:02.in the constituency of my Honorable friend, the Member for South Belfast
:40:03. > :40:06.constituency. During those negotiations, I am sure that the
:40:07. > :40:11.Secretary of State would recall this as well her colleague, the Minister
:40:12. > :40:15.of state that we in the SDLP circulated papers to the three
:40:16. > :40:20.governments and all parties on a hold enforcement approach and a
:40:21. > :40:25.whole community approach on how to address the issues of
:40:26. > :40:33.paramilitarism. Despite fresh start being designed and managed daily,
:40:34. > :40:38.there should have been all party work on that IRC membership. I would
:40:39. > :40:44.ask the question, how can the work of IRC and its mandate which
:40:45. > :40:53.includes doubling representatives, be reconciled with Sinn Fein's
:40:54. > :40:58.approach and I would like to proceed Secretary of State on precisely how
:40:59. > :41:03.much new monies are to be made available to the national crime
:41:04. > :41:08.agency and the PSN I. When those monies will be released and what
:41:09. > :41:16.will be the script of those monies between the national crime agency
:41:17. > :41:20.and the PSN I. Clause two, subsection three, subsection A deals
:41:21. > :41:27.with national security, MIT that is already being referred to by the
:41:28. > :41:31.Honorable member. So, paramilitarism and commonality is to be addressed,
:41:32. > :41:35.but unfortunately the British Government can invoke national
:41:36. > :41:42.security, and that allows for the protection of agents who do have
:41:43. > :41:48.information and that can impede the very work about the resolution of
:41:49. > :41:52.many cases. Clause six subsection one deals with institutional
:41:53. > :41:57.reforms, and yes 14 days is OK before the appointment of the
:41:58. > :42:01.ministers. But, fresh start for first to our proposal, the parties
:42:02. > :42:07.have to agree to go into executive before the programme for Government
:42:08. > :42:11.has finally agreed. I wonder how the government contemplated any
:42:12. > :42:18.amendment in this proposition? In relation to the project office, it
:42:19. > :42:21.states that one of our ministers, I could hear directly Madam Deputy
:42:22. > :42:25.Speaker from the legislation, support the rule of law
:42:26. > :42:34.unequivocally and to support all efforts to uphold it. How can this
:42:35. > :42:39.be reconciled with Sinn Fein's view on the national crime agency which
:42:40. > :42:47.is a vehicle for the role of law, yet Sinn Fein opposed the motion in
:42:48. > :42:52.the assembly in February 2015 to support in Word and date and refused
:42:53. > :42:57.to endorse it at a recent meeting of the policing Board. How does this
:42:58. > :43:03.new pledge address Sinn Fein's approach on Mr Murphy? Again, the
:43:04. > :43:09.same applies with the pledge of office for assembly members. So, but
:43:10. > :43:14.of Deputy Speaker, there are several issues there. But in the storm in
:43:15. > :43:21.how stocks, and in our submissions to those talks, we have made the
:43:22. > :43:25.point time and time again that the precious or a divided political
:43:26. > :43:31.messages on paramilitarism exacerbates the challenges facing
:43:32. > :43:36.people, trying to move community transitions and graduations away
:43:37. > :43:42.from ingrained paramilitary interests. A united political stance
:43:43. > :43:50.from all parties and a real united political stance from all parties in
:43:51. > :43:56.the assembly is imperative. If we are to enable statutory agencies and
:43:57. > :43:59.community groups to challenge ongoing paramilitary activity which
:44:00. > :44:05.should be condemned out right from what ever works or it comes from.
:44:06. > :44:09.For that reason, the additions, and I repeat again to the ministerial
:44:10. > :44:12.pledge of office, and the undertaking by assembly members are
:44:13. > :44:19.welcome, or for that clarification is required. There is one element of
:44:20. > :44:25.the pledge in particular that requires further scrutiny, they do
:44:26. > :44:28.ask the Secretary of State for some clarification today or the Minister
:44:29. > :44:34.of state who will be responding, the inclusion in the project office and
:44:35. > :44:38.undertaking I MSAs refers to ministers and and many duties to
:44:39. > :44:44.support those are determined to make the away from paramilitarism. So, if
:44:45. > :44:51.we could have some clarification on that, within a paramilitarism is not
:44:52. > :44:59.an overnight process, and scope has to be made for transition. However,
:45:00. > :45:05.this cannot be a video for illegal or other activity by paramilitary
:45:06. > :45:11.groups or manifest themselves as prospective tolerance for different
:45:12. > :45:15.classes of paramilitary behaviour. We as MPs representing Northern
:45:16. > :45:21.Ireland constituencies have seen many examples of paramilitary
:45:22. > :45:23.activity. As I said earlier Madam Deputy Speaker, in my intervention
:45:24. > :45:29.to the Secretary of State, I do regret the fact that there has been
:45:30. > :45:35.no addressing legislative terms of the legacy issues of those matters
:45:36. > :45:41.to deal with, the victims. I would urge that such legislation does come
:45:42. > :45:48.through and as my Honorable friend Andy member has said that such
:45:49. > :45:54.legislation is subjected to detailed scrutiny of this house because we
:45:55. > :45:59.owe it to all the victims and all those who have suffered so terribly
:46:00. > :46:06.as a result of such heinous violence. It was never asked for and
:46:07. > :46:11.never called for. And, in all of this that in the outer workings of
:46:12. > :46:16.all these agreements and in the eye workings of trying to achieve
:46:17. > :46:20.political and economic stability, because that is what we all strive
:46:21. > :46:24.for, and what we all want to see is for the betterment of all of her
:46:25. > :46:29.constituents and for all the citizens of Northern Ireland that we
:46:30. > :46:36.are able to ensure the social justice is provided for and that
:46:37. > :46:39.inequalities that have been in here and across the community for some
:46:40. > :46:47.years are towed to the address and that we do see the sustaining of
:46:48. > :46:52.existing jobs, the provision of new jobs, and the building up of small
:46:53. > :46:58.to medium-sized enterprises. But although jobs to foreign direct
:46:59. > :47:02.investments, I would ask for the Secretary of State and her
:47:03. > :47:06.colleague, the Minister of state work with the Northern Ireland
:47:07. > :47:14.Executive to ensure that that comes about to stop thank you Madam Deputy
:47:15. > :47:19.Speaker. Thank you, can I join with honourable colleagues and the right
:47:20. > :47:22.Honorable colleagues on this side of the House in acknowledging the
:47:23. > :47:29.presence of the Honorable member for church very, again diligent as the
:47:30. > :47:36.chair of the select committee but also in circumstances where he has
:47:37. > :47:41.suffered a close personal loss in terms of the untimely death of Mark
:47:42. > :47:47.Calloway and he has all of our sympathy and can I acknowledge the
:47:48. > :47:56.message from my Honorable member which I will pass on to my sister.
:47:57. > :48:02.Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill takes forward aspects of what has
:48:03. > :48:09.been Kolbe start agreement. I did say at the time there was an undue
:48:10. > :48:14.amount of political debris is being attached to that particular
:48:15. > :48:17.agreement because it is not as wide an agreement as for instance the
:48:18. > :48:22.picture on the library paper relating to this bill would suggest
:48:23. > :48:25.because it implies that all the parties are there and it is quite
:48:26. > :48:29.clear it is not just our party but also the alliance party have made it
:48:30. > :48:33.very clear that essentially they see most of this agreement as an
:48:34. > :48:36.agreement between Sinn Fein and the DUP and the British and Irish
:48:37. > :48:39.governments. That does not mean the rest of us do not make very
:48:40. > :48:44.significant contributions in the discussions that were taking place
:48:45. > :48:50.and my Honorable friend the Member for southbound is right to make the
:48:51. > :48:54.point that while other parties were saying a lot in front of the cameras
:48:55. > :48:59.about paramilitarism and how the issue had to be brought to a head,
:49:00. > :49:04.my party was the one party that made actual of suspended paper
:49:05. > :49:09.contributions in relation to how we need to move forward on the issue of
:49:10. > :49:11.paramilitarism with both on the one hand or whole enforcement approach
:49:12. > :49:15.because many parties and many people in the public really believe that a
:49:16. > :49:20.blind eye was being turned to different levels of criminal
:49:21. > :49:27.activity that findings were given to particular people and the government
:49:28. > :49:31.was happy to allow some crime to be continued essentially on the basis
:49:32. > :49:36.that these were personal assets that people now had that somehow so long
:49:37. > :49:39.as these assets and criminal activities were derivative of former
:49:40. > :49:45.paramilitary activities and associations that somehow they were
:49:46. > :49:50.not deemed to be political anymore than they were deemed to be at a
:49:51. > :49:54.number of times a mean the past had asked relevant authorities how some
:49:55. > :49:59.of these assets and activities were being treated we were told they were
:50:00. > :50:03.being treated as personal and not political or organisational in any
:50:04. > :50:06.way. There were many parties that he issues with bats and we heard that
:50:07. > :50:10.in previous debates here in this house from some of the Honorable
:50:11. > :50:18.members sitting behind me in relation to various aspects of
:50:19. > :50:23.smuggling and indeed of course environmental crime. Waste crime,
:50:24. > :50:26.crime involving serious hazardous waste and significant quantities of
:50:27. > :50:34.illegal and hazardous waste as well and clearly there are vestiges of
:50:35. > :50:42.former paramilitary associations of there. It is quite clear that do
:50:43. > :50:49.have those kind of hangover nixes that exists around certain
:50:50. > :50:52.paramilitary groups of people who were former associated with
:50:53. > :50:54.paramilitary groups. We were advocating the whole enforcement
:50:55. > :50:58.which of course they do have to acknowledge, both governments were
:50:59. > :51:01.absolutely adamant in those negotiations that there was no
:51:02. > :51:08.granddad being turned, that all the relevant agencies were pursuing
:51:09. > :51:10.everything they possibly could, both individually and collectively. But
:51:11. > :51:16.the government did accept that maybe dated the to be even more visibility
:51:17. > :51:22.towards that. But it may be needed to be more vocal as well as more
:51:23. > :51:27.visible to which is why we have some of the emphasis that is there in the
:51:28. > :51:33.commitment that have been made in terms of cross-border task force and
:51:34. > :51:36.those sort of efforts. But, we also advocated what he called it whole
:51:37. > :51:44.community approach because we said if we are going to achieve Andy
:51:45. > :51:49.North a whole some society free of all the amenities of paramilitary
:51:50. > :51:51.traces and all of the other hangover divisions from our past, there
:51:52. > :51:57.needed to be a whole community approach to that. In fact in the
:51:58. > :51:59.paper, that we set out and just quote a number of points that we
:52:00. > :52:06.made there, we said political parties ought to be in coherent and
:52:07. > :52:08.consistent shared standards which recognised and reported it and the
:52:09. > :52:11.various paramilitaries and just an involvement. They should reflect the
:52:12. > :52:14.shared approach which is about tooling up paramilitarism Andy Chase
:52:15. > :52:20.activities, not just thinking of particular groups or giving parties.
:52:21. > :52:23.We said party should unite in adhering to the whole community
:52:24. > :52:27.approach to achieving a wholesome community free of sectarianism,
:52:28. > :52:32.division, and vintage vestiges of ongoing paramilitarism. The whole
:52:33. > :52:37.community approach should entail more than challenging paramilitary
:52:38. > :52:41.practices or presences in our own constituencies or highlighting them
:52:42. > :52:44.on someone else's. It should mean that we all seek pernicious
:52:45. > :52:48.paramilitary activity in any corner of the North as an affront to the
:52:49. > :52:55.whole democratic society we should want as the veneration's legacy to
:52:56. > :52:59.the next. Deep cleansing residual habits of paramilitarism should be a
:53:00. > :53:04.key dimension in any programme for cohesion sharing and integration in
:53:05. > :53:08.a healthy United community. But the Deputy Speaker, we also observe that
:53:09. > :53:16.the converse is also pertinent, we cannot eradicate the course to him
:53:17. > :53:20.paramilitarism and given settings without overcoming divisions,
:53:21. > :53:24.tensions, apprehensions, and grievances which paramilitary
:53:25. > :53:28.convert to their own. In calling for that whole community approach, we
:53:29. > :53:34.had the idea of parties making new decorations and they said may be
:53:35. > :53:37.something along the lines of the Mitchell principles or the northern
:53:38. > :53:42.principles of public life. But we wanted was the commitments coming
:53:43. > :53:48.from all of the parties in pledges that would be meaningful and then of
:53:49. > :53:54.course that would be subject to adherence. That is the issue that
:53:55. > :53:57.the Honorable Lady for southbound had touched on in terms of the
:53:58. > :54:04.pledges as they have found a way into this bill. This bill does not
:54:05. > :54:10.give us the idea of the pledges coming from all of the parties and
:54:11. > :54:13.the parties uniting in guaranteeing adherence to those pledges across
:54:14. > :54:19.other preventatives instead what this bill does is take the idea of a
:54:20. > :54:23.pledge and it adds pledge of office for ministers in a number of
:54:24. > :54:29.respects and then it creates a parallel area of pledge or an
:54:30. > :54:32.mayonnaise, of course D speaker when there have been issues and
:54:33. > :54:36.controversies in Northern Ireland on whether or not parties had been
:54:37. > :54:39.consorting with paramilitaries are engaging, the allegation had not
:54:40. > :54:48.just been about MLA or ministers, their easy questions, they are not
:54:49. > :54:54.about the standards as above they make in terms of their commitment to
:54:55. > :54:57.nonviolence. The question also raises were here in this house
:54:58. > :55:02.debating this legislation, the did not apply to the MPs? Are MP3 of the
:55:03. > :55:08.standards. They apply to MLAs and they apply to ministers to a degree,
:55:09. > :55:14.but not I think we need to find a more articulate way than just the
:55:15. > :55:18.pledges as they appear here. And of course the Honorable member for
:55:19. > :55:26.northbound is right in pointing out that there is no way of enforcing a
:55:27. > :55:30.relation to any dispute or controversy. That applies not just
:55:31. > :55:34.to the question of the undertaking members of the assembly, it applies
:55:35. > :55:40.very directly to the pledge of ministers because there is no means
:55:41. > :55:45.of arbitrary unmanaged breaches of the ministerial code. So, the
:55:46. > :55:50.executive does not have a means of doing that, the First Minister have
:55:51. > :55:56.still not found a way are brought forward a clearly of investigating
:55:57. > :56:00.and making a judgement where if they had been breaches of the
:56:01. > :56:03.ministerial, people can take each other to court alleging breaches of
:56:04. > :56:09.the ministerial code. There is not what they should be a sensible,
:56:10. > :56:13.clear, credible mechanism at the level of the executive itself, and
:56:14. > :56:16.similarly such would be needed from the assembly whether to go to the
:56:17. > :56:23.committee of standard and privileges are it is not enough to just be
:56:24. > :56:25.standing orders to decide this to my mind is a higher order political
:56:26. > :56:30.decision than something that it should be decided by a procedures
:56:31. > :56:34.committee in the assembly looking at standing orders. D speaker, that
:56:35. > :56:40.would be mistake that was made years ago in the original 1998 act, the
:56:41. > :56:47.provisions around the petition of concern, the provisions in paragraph
:56:48. > :56:52.11 to 13 were very particular about how limited the use of petitions
:56:53. > :56:54.were to be. They were to be selectively for instances where
:56:55. > :56:58.people were alleging that there was a breach, that there was an issue of
:56:59. > :57:04.human rights or equality, and a mechanism was set up on the basis of
:57:05. > :57:07.concern to test that issue. And then, things would proceed him
:57:08. > :57:12.unfortunately the legislation rather than providing for what was in the
:57:13. > :57:17.Good Friday agreement, the legislation simply said that
:57:18. > :57:21.standing orders would provide for the sorts of devices that were
:57:22. > :57:24.mentioned in those paragraphs and it was never done right which is why we
:57:25. > :57:30.had the very point that the Member for Cech Barry was complaining about
:57:31. > :57:34.what we have a wide open drive-by vehicle state of petition of concern
:57:35. > :57:40.that was used on a tit-for-tat basis and on a frivolous basis. I am
:57:41. > :57:43.grateful my beaker for it giving way, I think he made a strong point
:57:44. > :57:48.about the principles that should be applied in public life, it is not a
:57:49. > :57:53.certain irony that they have just alongside Sinn Fein this evening
:57:54. > :57:55.find a position of concern to retain and enshrine religious
:57:56. > :58:01.discrimination in the selection of teachers in the province? They have
:58:02. > :58:09.signed a petition of concern against a proposal which is coming forward
:58:10. > :58:12.currently yes, just before, it is a matter of trying to protect laws
:58:13. > :58:17.that have already existed and not change them, not change them
:58:18. > :58:21.rationally before an election. Which is also something that the DUP have
:58:22. > :58:29.stated in relation to other aspects as well. In terms of defending the
:58:30. > :58:36.existing equality, the existing equality provisions that are there,
:58:37. > :58:41.clearly it does. What should happen with a protection of concern should
:58:42. > :58:44.be what happens or what was intended under the Good Friday agreement,
:58:45. > :58:46.rather than that being the end of that matter. That matter should then
:58:47. > :58:53.be the subject of an investigation but especially am appointed
:58:54. > :58:56.committee, what issues are involved and that that issue and that the
:58:57. > :59:02.matter proceed. That is the way it should have been as per the
:59:03. > :59:05.agreement, that has been our position as to help petitions of
:59:06. > :59:13.concern should be properly dealt with. And not abused in that sort of
:59:14. > :59:16.way. Let us remember also, when they looked at those pledge of office,
:59:17. > :59:21.the pledge of office, the budget office by ministers and members of
:59:22. > :59:26.the assembly and well the fact that it is confined purely to ministers
:59:27. > :59:29.and to members of the assembly and not the other party politicians. We
:59:30. > :59:33.also need to recognise that the commitments essentially are to work
:59:34. > :59:38.for the ministers to work collectively with the other members
:59:39. > :59:41.and to achieve a society free of paramilitarism. I would hope that
:59:42. > :59:44.the commitments would work and extend to much more than just their
:59:45. > :59:48.ministerial colleagues, and the commitment of a members should
:59:49. > :59:53.extend to more than just working with their SMB colleagues. There is
:59:54. > :59:58.also of course the question of what to some of the terms mean and the
:59:59. > :00:07.Honorable member for getting was right, I think to point out the
:00:08. > :00:13.final stop pledge in both the pledge of office by ministers and SME
:00:14. > :00:18.members which pledges to accept no authority direction or control on
:00:19. > :00:21.political activities other than my democratic mandate alongside my own
:00:22. > :00:24.personal and party judgement. Well, if ministers are saying that in
:00:25. > :00:31.their pledge of office, in the same pledge of office ministers are also
:00:32. > :00:33.pledging to be bound by decisions of the executive and he is saying
:00:34. > :00:38.something that appears to contradict that because it says to accept no
:00:39. > :00:43.direction or control. Other than democratic mandate alongside these,
:00:44. > :00:54.there is a tension there, also of course there would be the issue of
:00:55. > :00:56.if we do fill the gap that the Honorable member for northbound
:00:57. > :01:03.mentioned, if we do fill that gap in terms of creating some clear sense
:01:04. > :01:08.of standards and sanctions around this, then clearly people are going
:01:09. > :01:13.to have to accept some of their political conduct and that there
:01:14. > :01:16.will be listening to others in regards of the standards of
:01:17. > :01:21.behaviours and engagement should be. Therefore again, I think there is a
:01:22. > :01:26.problem which the Honorable member for deadening has been a right to
:01:27. > :01:34.identify. I also want to take up the point that my Honorable friend for
:01:35. > :01:38.southbound had mentioned in respect of the second of the sub pages which
:01:39. > :01:41.is to support those who are determined to make the transition
:01:42. > :01:47.away from paramilitarism, that might seem to be fair enough as a general
:01:48. > :01:53.statement of support, but what does it mean in practice. And also, are
:01:54. > :01:58.there potentially tensions between that and other parts of the pledge
:01:59. > :02:02.to challenge paramilitary attempt to control communities? And the
:02:03. > :02:09.commitment to challenge all paramilitarism activity, because as
:02:10. > :02:16.the right honourable member said in his remarks earlier, he questioned
:02:17. > :02:21.whether or not some of the paramilitary or former personalities
:02:22. > :02:29.who have talked a lot in their contribution to the peace process
:02:30. > :02:31.that they have been in relation to certain standards and certain
:02:32. > :02:38.practices and that they have turned a blind eyes to certain things. The
:02:39. > :02:41.questions are raised as to whether or not when we are criticising or
:02:42. > :02:45.challenging such people, are they then going to be accused of not
:02:46. > :02:50.supporting those who are determined to make the transition away from
:02:51. > :02:53.paramilitarism? Many people use as a justification for their demands for
:02:54. > :03:00.funding for particular schemes, they use as justification for jobs and
:03:01. > :03:03.the rest, this is all about weaning people away from paramilitarism.
:03:04. > :03:08.Other people in the community sometimes challenges because they
:03:09. > :03:13.challenge particular post that became available. And other people
:03:14. > :03:18.were I do think there are issues that we should look at there. And
:03:19. > :03:25.remember we had the very glaring example of the Honorable member for
:03:26. > :03:31.Southdown herself when she was a minister and made a decision to
:03:32. > :03:35.cease to continue funding from her department to the Carthage
:03:36. > :03:37.estimation initiative because the Chief Constable and other senior
:03:38. > :03:41.police officers at the camera making it very glaring that they were being
:03:42. > :03:47.funded and supported by the confidence predation initiative were
:03:48. > :03:50.up to their necks in a series of crimes at that time, there were
:03:51. > :03:53.profile criminal activities taking place at that time, they keep
:03:54. > :03:59.Godzilla made it clear, my Honorable friend brought that matter to the
:04:00. > :04:03.executive, he said that is going to be decided in your department,
:04:04. > :04:07.whenever she did decide it people change their idea and of course
:04:08. > :04:12.other parties then said no, that transformation is supporting people
:04:13. > :04:14.who are trying to make the transition away from paramilitarism.
:04:15. > :04:18.As far as other people were concerned this was money that was
:04:19. > :04:24.going to support people who are up to their neck in crime at that time.
:04:25. > :04:30.So, what is it to be? There are potential tensions even with how any
:04:31. > :04:32.of them could determine any of these clauses here, we could take them in
:04:33. > :04:39.very different directions. Again, work is needed on these to refine
:04:40. > :04:45.them somewhat better as well as making sure someone else can be lots
:04:46. > :04:48.of identity and parties on these issues. The one thing we do not want
:04:49. > :04:55.is parties ended up arguing with each other over paramilitarism are
:04:56. > :04:59.we supposing aspects either now or historically. The more united and
:05:00. > :05:05.coherent parties can be seen to be the better. Remember, we want to
:05:06. > :05:12.make sure that the surprise at all levels, if there are controversies
:05:13. > :05:17.about party politicians turning up at particular events and protests
:05:18. > :05:20.and paramilitaries are there as well do need to be able to do with those
:05:21. > :05:27.issues and make sure that this sort of pledge does govern things that
:05:28. > :05:31.when it comes to controversies like as has been mentioned in this
:05:32. > :05:37.chamber before, for instance it should be clear that we have a
:05:38. > :05:41.pledge that relates to paramilitaries practices either
:05:42. > :05:44.historically or currently that is absolutely consistent and all on the
:05:45. > :05:47.one yardstick. That becomes protection for all the individual
:05:48. > :05:51.politicians would be put under pressure at community level to get
:05:52. > :05:59.involved and then their presence. So the pledge is articulate and robust
:06:00. > :06:04.and could give us a lot there. But under the DD speaker, there are
:06:05. > :06:12.other issues in this ballot before, not in the bill, of course the
:06:13. > :06:14.independent reporting commissions other Honorable members have such an
:06:15. > :06:21.effect that it is the First Minister who will appoint part of the first
:06:22. > :06:28.agreement, whose record was to the executive, it is clear here that I
:06:29. > :06:31.share what others have there, that needs to be the subject of wider
:06:32. > :06:35.consideration and consultation as well. I think there are issues about
:06:36. > :06:41.the secretary of state powers in respect of that commission. The fact
:06:42. > :06:45.that the Secretary of State will be in charge of defining the
:06:46. > :06:49.interpretations around a lot of these things and possibly changing
:06:50. > :07:00.the interpretations around some of these things. That needs more work
:07:01. > :07:07.and consideration. One of the DD speaker, also in Clause issue of
:07:08. > :07:12.draft budget, there are a couple of points I want to make a ball what is
:07:13. > :07:16.in there. First of all, the government is saying that this
:07:17. > :07:22.clauses here because they want to ensure greater transparency and
:07:23. > :07:28.sustainability are on the budget. I am all for transparency around
:07:29. > :07:34.budgets and even Marcel whenever I have the job of Minister of finance
:07:35. > :07:37.and personnel. Indeed the SDLP in various talks have advocated going
:07:38. > :07:43.much further in relation to budget transparency. As well as having
:07:44. > :07:46.designed the whole procedure of their agents parent process of draft
:07:47. > :07:51.budgets to be fully considered for the assembly and open to public
:07:52. > :07:58.consultation and then subject to the revise budget procedure, we have
:07:59. > :08:01.also advocated in various talks but did not get agreement from other
:08:02. > :08:07.parties and this went right back to the Castle, we said that after the
:08:08. > :08:11.revise budget was approved by the assembly, we said each departmental
:08:12. > :08:14.minister should then within a period of a number of weeks make their own
:08:15. > :08:18.statement of their own spending plan and be fully answerable to the
:08:19. > :08:22.assembly for how they would add to the conspiracy. It was not to the
:08:23. > :08:27.taste of many of the parties who were talking about it, he was
:08:28. > :08:32.telling me we don't want that much just guarantee, that would be too
:08:33. > :08:35.much. I think there should be transparency there within the
:08:36. > :08:41.assembly and following through on budgets. In terms of this particular
:08:42. > :08:44.instrument, that is mentioned here, there would be a statement that
:08:45. > :08:50.would be made before the assembly in terms of the amount of UK funding. I
:08:51. > :08:54.would ask the Secretary of State if she would consider accepting an
:08:55. > :08:58.amendment that would make that further and would say that that
:08:59. > :09:03.statement should actually specify exactly how the Northern Ireland
:09:04. > :09:06.allocations was calculated so that people in the assembly and members
:09:07. > :09:11.here would be able to correlate exactly how that spending would
:09:12. > :09:17.amount for Northern Ireland and has been determined here and on the
:09:18. > :09:22.basis possibly on legislation and legislative requirements, Madam
:09:23. > :09:26.Deputy Speaker, it was one of the key arguments that came from the
:09:27. > :09:29.Scottish National Party and their selves in relation to the English
:09:30. > :09:34.was for English laws, there were legislations that can go through
:09:35. > :09:41.here, that's will then inform spending plans. And though spending
:09:42. > :09:47.plans that are informed for England or England and Wales will then in
:09:48. > :09:50.turn be factored in to the formula. It is a just guarantee because the
:09:51. > :09:55.government tried to tell us at the time, no the legislation has that
:09:56. > :09:59.kind of spending consequences, this is the government that usually when
:10:00. > :10:06.they were rejecting amendments, it would be because of their budgetary
:10:07. > :10:09.consequences. They try to pretend with English words for English laws
:10:10. > :10:14.that there were no consequences with the legislation that would be
:10:15. > :10:20.passed. They might be right, we might be writes, the way of proving
:10:21. > :10:23.who is or is not right, the way up establishing the facts is to take
:10:24. > :10:26.these instruments of transparency a bit further and it should not be
:10:27. > :10:29.hard to colour in that statement a bit more, rather than just being the
:10:30. > :10:32.brief outline statement that it is, it should be able to be well
:10:33. > :10:37.coloured in whether it is in respect of the draft budgets or the
:10:38. > :10:41.subsequent revise statement that the revise budget has as well. If people
:10:42. > :10:46.want just guarantee that would be a very good addition to just
:10:47. > :10:52.guarantee. We have to question whether or not some of the intention
:10:53. > :10:59.with the statement is of course to use in effect as a budget cap so the
:11:00. > :11:01.government is saying they wanted to be a budget guarantee and
:11:02. > :11:05.sustainability, but of course we know that whenever the Corporation
:11:06. > :11:11.tax bill is passed the financial Secretary to the Treasury said that
:11:12. > :11:16.the switch on would only be activated whenever the Treasury was
:11:17. > :11:19.that despite around a balanced and sustainable budget and let some of
:11:20. > :11:23.us asked at the bill committee would be Treasury use that to make a
:11:24. > :11:29.judgement on some of the spending plans of the executive because after
:11:30. > :11:37.all the Treasury was using the assembly failure to pass the welfare
:11:38. > :11:40.reform legislation as a case for making a judgement that there was
:11:41. > :11:42.not a balanced and sustainable judgement that this be used for
:11:43. > :11:45.other things in the future for instant information to student
:11:46. > :11:50.finance and in relation to water charges and in relation to
:11:51. > :11:55.prescription charges or anything else and the financial Secretary
:11:56. > :12:00.said well, you judge a budget on the sum of its parts. So he did that,
:12:01. > :12:03.and it could be used precisely to involve themselves in some of those
:12:04. > :12:08.other things. One other point I would make about the draft budgets
:12:09. > :12:16.in Clause nine and is one of the reasons I welcome this is it severs
:12:17. > :12:24.a point Madam Deputy Speaker that arose after a budget in the assembly
:12:25. > :12:31.in 2008, the Minister for finance and personnel brought a budget to
:12:32. > :12:35.the assembly in 2008 we try to amend it and am in the programme for
:12:36. > :12:41.government as well as as voting against aspect of it, he announced
:12:42. > :12:48.then a few months later that because that budget that he bought through
:12:49. > :12:52.in 2008 had also contained figures for 2009, and 2010, they did not
:12:53. > :12:55.need to be draft budgets tabled before the assembly in the
:12:56. > :13:01.subsequent years, the procedures that were laid down which very
:13:02. > :13:09.clearly were predicated on a financial, annual exercise he said
:13:10. > :13:15.that he had legal advice that said that requirements for that exercise
:13:16. > :13:19.before each financial year was discharged by the fact that he had
:13:20. > :13:22.covered figures for all three years in the 2008 budget. We challenge
:13:23. > :13:27.that at the time, we took it to the Speaker of the assembly at the time,
:13:28. > :13:34.unfortunately he said he was up to us to take a legal challenge on it.
:13:35. > :13:40.That advised that Peter Robinson was giving at the time as minister was
:13:41. > :13:44.followed then by his successor as minister of finance and personnel,
:13:45. > :13:46.the writable member for North Belfast thing that the job budget
:13:47. > :13:52.exercise was needed, one of the things that is very clear is that it
:13:53. > :13:55.is an annual exercise, there is no ambiguity or doubt when you see the
:13:56. > :13:59.way this is framed that it is an annual exercise, the there have to
:14:00. > :14:03.be a draft budget tabled and fully debated every year and there have to
:14:04. > :14:08.be this additional statement ahead of that. We are glad that at least
:14:09. > :14:14.it does that, maybe it should restore a bit of transparency, to
:14:15. > :14:18.the assembly which does need to be amplified, the assembly should be
:14:19. > :14:33.doing much more by way of scrutiny from budgets and spending. Members
:14:34. > :14:38.have raised issues that weren't covered in the secretary of State's
:14:39. > :14:45.address in her opening remarks in her respective legacy issues. I
:14:46. > :14:53.regret the fact that we ended up with, rather than in all party, all
:14:54. > :15:01.partied together agreement, we have ended of with welfare reform going
:15:02. > :15:09.forward as agreed by the three amigos of Sheng fang. The Tories and
:15:10. > :15:17.the DEP, and the austerity a landscape was welfare reform on
:15:18. > :15:27.those terms. Now we have this legislation being brought forward,
:15:28. > :15:31.and the legacy legislation. When that comes it is important it is not
:15:32. > :15:37.rushed, and that we give full consideration again to some of the
:15:38. > :15:43.issues. While I recognise the Secretary of State saying that she
:15:44. > :15:49.thinks the measure of agreement that was apparent around the table I
:15:50. > :15:54.store my house, the highest degree of agreement that there has been, I
:15:55. > :15:58.would make the point that there was an offer of a much better
:15:59. > :16:10.perspectives in terms of dealing with the past. There was a another
:16:11. > :16:14.perspective as well. They were watered down in the store my house
:16:15. > :16:24.agreement, and being watered down further. In a number of respects,
:16:25. > :16:29.and I would ask as well as victims groups who have their own concerns,
:16:30. > :16:32.upsets, and apprehensions to consider all of the issues, I would
:16:33. > :16:41.ask all parties to consider all of the issues as well. Not least in
:16:42. > :16:47.respect of the potential to deal with what have now been thematic.
:16:48. > :16:51.What is hugely important is that the historic investigations unit has set
:16:52. > :17:01.up to undertaking the work that was formally done by the police odds
:17:02. > :17:07.with them. -- ombudsman. We should realise it will work on the basis of
:17:08. > :17:16.providing support to families. Many of these cases are linked together.
:17:17. > :17:22.There are wider patterns, and wider issues at stake. Not all in relation
:17:23. > :17:26.to killings. We think many of those need to be given an airing. We think
:17:27. > :17:32.that that would help to answer some of the questions that have been
:17:33. > :17:37.raised by the honourable member. He said he thinks there is an
:17:38. > :17:40.unbalanced approach to the past, that those who want the past
:17:41. > :17:46.investigated are concentrating on what he stated, and not what
:17:47. > :17:49.paramilitary actors did. The whole question of the medics and patterns
:17:50. > :17:59.in those investigations could precisely lead to more balance. That
:18:00. > :18:15.is why we put such emphasis on that. I recall the point in reply to some
:18:16. > :18:19.of the points that deal with the means and the motives were pursuing
:18:20. > :18:22.their aspects of the past that interested in them, and other people
:18:23. > :18:27.were being left aside. He was making the point that he thought the medics
:18:28. > :18:34.was a way of evening that, and making sure that other issues and
:18:35. > :18:46.concerns were looked at. I am grateful to the honourable member.
:18:47. > :18:54.Before he concludes... Just before he concludes his remarks, I wanted
:18:55. > :19:00.to take this opportunity to express, despite the noises, how sorry we are
:19:01. > :19:06.that there has been a family burden and in the honourable member's
:19:07. > :19:12.extended family. We would be grateful if you would offer to his
:19:13. > :19:18.sister our sympathy and support at a time when her partner was tragically
:19:19. > :19:31.killed in a traffic accident last night. We are sorry indeed.
:19:32. > :19:42.Can I thank the Member for her kind condolences, which I will certainly
:19:43. > :19:50.pass on. I accept this burden that she has shared, on behalf of collies
:19:51. > :19:54.as well. Whenever we experience death, and a shock like that,
:19:55. > :20:00.especially when I didn't know what had happened when I spotted the tape
:20:01. > :20:04.across the road and the place, it looked like a security operation
:20:05. > :20:10.that would have been so familiar to so many of us down the years. It was
:20:11. > :20:17.a throwback image, before I knew anything else. I had memories of
:20:18. > :20:21.another occasion, which also brings to mind exactly the position we are
:20:22. > :20:26.all talking about, coming here from different party stances we are
:20:27. > :20:32.talking about victims and their positions, and their concerns.
:20:33. > :20:36.Victims, and survivors and their needs. We do need to show full
:20:37. > :20:39.consideration, because if we are going to convince them that the
:20:40. > :20:43.legislation, when it does come forward in relation to legacy
:20:44. > :20:51.issues, is going to be fit for their needs, then we need to listen and
:20:52. > :20:55.think a little bit more. I would hope that the consensus that the
:20:56. > :20:59.secretary of State is saying she wants to build isn't going to be
:21:00. > :21:02.just trying to square things off between herself and one or two other
:21:03. > :21:10.parties, but that it is done much more widely. Clearly, we will be
:21:11. > :21:16.bringing forward, as my honourable friend has said, we will be bringing
:21:17. > :21:19.forward amendments on some of these issues to try to prove and improve
:21:20. > :21:25.the meaning of this legislation. Obviously we are not opposed to
:21:26. > :21:29.this, because clearly we will need changes to be in place such as the
:21:30. > :21:32.change in relation to the timeline for the appointment of ministers,
:21:33. > :21:40.and the question of allowing a programme for government to actually
:21:41. > :21:44.be aired and shared before ministers are appointed. Clearly, if that will
:21:45. > :21:50.happen in time for the many of the next assembly, this legislation will
:21:51. > :21:56.have to go through. We are certainly, in terms of the timing,
:21:57. > :22:01.we wanted to improve it, and make some of the gaps and wrinkles in it.
:22:02. > :22:05.We think there could have been other things done with this legislation.
:22:06. > :22:09.Why should the appointment of first deputy and the Minister remained the
:22:10. > :22:15.singular appointment of two parties? Why not revert to the original Good
:22:16. > :22:21.Friday agreement of liking them? Sheng fang and the DEP go to lobby
:22:22. > :22:25.on their own. They couldn't originally in 2007, when devolution
:22:26. > :22:34.was restored with his wife the whole system had to be changed. Now they
:22:35. > :22:41.are happy to be in a power packed, there is no reason why they
:22:42. > :22:45.shouldn't. That should be an assembly mandate and have the deputy
:22:46. > :22:54.and first Minister mandated that way. In relation to this bill, we
:22:55. > :23:01.may concentrate on issues in the bill, and also on others that aren't
:23:02. > :23:06.in the bill. Thank you very much. Second reading debates are often
:23:07. > :23:12.described as timely, well informed, and occasionally that is true.
:23:13. > :23:15.Tonight, I think we have heard an excellent second reading debate with
:23:16. > :23:21.first-class contributions from all corners of the chamber. Can I
:23:22. > :23:26.associate myself and my colleague with particular aspirations of
:23:27. > :23:33.sympathy expressed to the honourable member of the death of Mark
:23:34. > :23:38.Calloway. The honourable number has borne this with courage, and has the
:23:39. > :23:43.sympathy of the house. As does the member from foil for his family
:23:44. > :23:52.burden and which I hope we can all there with him. This has been one of
:23:53. > :23:57.Constantine throughout the night's debate. That is, for once on these
:23:58. > :24:01.occasions, I am delighted, I am pleased to say, a theme of optimism.
:24:02. > :24:06.This is a serious and sober debate, but at every stage, there was a
:24:07. > :24:11.chink of light. That chance of hope, that good news for the future, and
:24:12. > :24:16.that commitment to a better shared future. We heard that from every
:24:17. > :24:23.party speaking tonight. That is one of the most important things we have
:24:24. > :24:30.heard tonight. When the Member for Belfast North refers to, rather
:24:31. > :24:34.flatteringly, we are represented more in quality than quantity, may I
:24:35. > :24:36.say there are more people beyond this chamber looking at our
:24:37. > :24:42.deliberations who are watching us, and in many cases they will be
:24:43. > :24:47.looking in on us with admiration and gratitude. We are moving on in
:24:48. > :24:49.northern Ireland to a better, shared future. Tonight's bill and the
:24:50. > :24:55.second reading may not be the most important piece of legislation ever
:24:56. > :25:00.seen on this floor, but it is an essential, crucial building block in
:25:01. > :25:03.this war, in the architecture, the structure of a peaceful Northern
:25:04. > :25:10.Ireland that we all aspire for. I have been greatly at impressed by
:25:11. > :25:14.the determination and quality of the comments tonight. The honourable
:25:15. > :25:18.Lady, above and beyond the call of duty, presented herself despite
:25:19. > :25:31.suffering from something approaching laryngitis. May I suggest there is a
:25:32. > :25:36.marvellous medicine in Ireland and Scotland, that is available for her
:25:37. > :25:41.on request. Whether she was able to avail herself of a small nip, I
:25:42. > :25:46.cannot say, but as a prophylactic against such drug conditions, it is
:25:47. > :25:53.admirable and Wolk recommended. It is also a very powerful curative.
:25:54. > :25:56.Referring again to the honourable gentleman for Belfast North, when he
:25:57. > :26:02.said that this is only part of the information of the Stormont house,
:26:03. > :26:06.and try the course of his speech and others, we were privileged and
:26:07. > :26:09.almost blessed to hear some extraordinarily incisive
:26:10. > :26:14.interventions by the honourable Betty from North Down. Her
:26:15. > :26:18.suggestion of extending the inset empire to Northern Ireland is
:26:19. > :26:22.something that would be a tad controversial. We may need to
:26:23. > :26:25.discuss that at some later point. I also thought the gentleman from
:26:26. > :26:30.Belfast North was right, and I would like to associate myself and my
:26:31. > :26:33.colleague with his comment about Peter Robinson. We don't give people
:26:34. > :26:38.enough credit on the floor of this house for the work we do. Very often
:26:39. > :26:41.people achieve great things, and then they perhaps move off of the
:26:42. > :26:45.stage may be to return, who knows? And move off of the stage and
:26:46. > :26:51.sometimes we neglected to thank and pay credit to them. The honourable
:26:52. > :26:55.gentleman for North Belfast has done the right thing. I think everyone
:26:56. > :27:03.would wish to associate himself with his comments. We also heard from the
:27:04. > :27:08.honourable gentleman of how things have moved on from the days of the
:27:09. > :27:15.bonfires. Extraordinarily, sobering as if it is needed, a comment from
:27:16. > :27:19.the right honourable gentleman. Sometimes, when we debate Northern
:27:20. > :27:23.Ireland business on the floor of the house, we actually forget the
:27:24. > :27:27.full-scale and extent of the seriousness of the subject we are
:27:28. > :27:37.debating. He referred to the deaths that occurred to the troubles over
:27:38. > :27:45.over 3600 deaths. More people have died of the there own hands -- the
:27:46. > :27:49.work we do hear it must always be done in the context of those
:27:50. > :27:56.realities. Of the existence, still, of a legacy that is so horrific that
:27:57. > :28:01.sometimes it is almost impossible to almost absorb its full strength.
:28:02. > :28:09.Those suicide figures, the figures that are very seldom publicised, are
:28:10. > :28:12.utterly bone chilling. Any of us feel that we are somehow fighting
:28:13. > :28:16.fighting in our determination to drive forward the peace process in
:28:17. > :28:20.Northern Ireland, let us never forget it didn't and I'm Good
:28:21. > :28:26.Friday. The problem still exists today. We heard a wonderful comment
:28:27. > :28:31.and speech that from the first time the honourable Lady from a soft
:28:32. > :28:35.down. Having considered at great length her comment, I had decided
:28:36. > :28:40.that yes, I agree with her. We should stay in the European union
:28:41. > :28:45.for many, many reasons. She was so right, yet again, to refer to the
:28:46. > :28:49.troubles and to the victims. It is interesting that we didn't stray far
:28:50. > :28:56.and wide, and occasionally we pushed the envelope of a direct relevance.
:28:57. > :29:00.Certainly, when we moved out, particularly in a wide ranging
:29:01. > :29:07.horizon scanning speech by the honourable gentleman, we trespassed
:29:08. > :29:12.in some of the byways of the debate which I hadn't anticipated we would
:29:13. > :29:16.be discussing. I think in one of the other interventions by the
:29:17. > :29:20.honourable Lady for North Down, when she referred to the New Clause
:29:21. > :29:27.eight, particularly the new proposed section 48, and undertaken by
:29:28. > :29:29.members, I say to the house, and particularly to the Secretary of
:29:30. > :29:33.State, I don't think we have heard the last of it. It is from a
:29:34. > :29:37.business, but legislation on the floor of this house today, and
:29:38. > :29:44.legislation at committee stage on the floor of his house. I expect New
:29:45. > :29:52.Clause eight, especially New Clause 41 B will to back for us to discuss
:29:53. > :29:57.later on. This is one of the few Northern Ireland debates that has
:29:58. > :30:05.not been blessed by a 50 pound division from East Londonderry. I
:30:06. > :30:12.confess to a feeling of frustration and sadness. Particularly, as I have
:30:13. > :30:17.enjoyed the company of the honourable gentleman in a cracking
:30:18. > :30:25.good night in the intercostal night. -- the orange juice flowed like
:30:26. > :30:29.orange juice. LAUGHTER has an absolute brilliant evening, showing
:30:30. > :30:33.that we didn't need artificial stimulation, and there exists in the
:30:34. > :30:38.heart of hearts, a wonderful community that I hadn't been aware
:30:39. > :30:41.of. It was such a pleasure to be able to be speaking at while both of
:30:42. > :30:51.them sat, and had to listen. LAUGHTER in conclusion, Madam Deputy
:30:52. > :30:57.Speaker, I would like to say that this is an excellent second reading.
:30:58. > :31:01.We are now moving into committee stage next week. There will be more
:31:02. > :31:06.discussion, but let us not forget what I said at the beginning. The
:31:07. > :31:11.motive for this whole debate, the one consistent golden thread has run
:31:12. > :31:15.through it, is a golden thread of optimism. I pay credit to every
:31:16. > :31:19.single person who has participated in the debate tonight, and so many
:31:20. > :31:23.outside of this chamber who have contributed toward that. I look
:31:24. > :31:27.forward to the full implementation of the fresh start agreement, and
:31:28. > :31:31.the Stormont House Agreement, as another step on a road to that
:31:32. > :31:41.shared, peaceful future that we all aspire to. Thank you Madam Deputy
:31:42. > :31:46.Speaker. It is always a pleasure following the member, who in every
:31:47. > :31:50.debate is optimistic and positive, and it is especially welcome that in
:31:51. > :31:54.another stage of the Stormont house and fresh start agreement, we find
:31:55. > :31:58.ourselves in a second reading with the full support of the Majesty's
:31:59. > :32:03.opposition. I want to pay tribute to the numbers, and the whole opposite
:32:04. > :32:08.front bench for their continued support in making sure that we move
:32:09. > :32:10.Northern Ireland onward to normalisation, and they sure that
:32:11. > :32:15.bulbs in the road we have experienced are sorted out to that
:32:16. > :32:27.province, in northern Ireland clinical settlement -- political
:32:28. > :32:31.settlement, to beckon. -- set in. I would like to respond to some of the
:32:32. > :32:36.points raised in this debate. I would start back reiterating the
:32:37. > :32:39.importance of the bill in terms of implementation of November's fresh
:32:40. > :32:45.start agreement as a whole, as well as specific provisions that give
:32:46. > :32:48.affect to the independent reporting commission and increase fiscal
:32:49. > :32:56.responsibility in the budget setting process. Paramilitary activity has
:32:57. > :32:59.been a blight on northern Irish, and he will be tackled together. The
:33:00. > :33:05.measures on this bill will create an independent body that will work
:33:06. > :33:10.toward ending her military activity in Northern Ireland once and for
:33:11. > :33:14.all. The budget measures in the bill achieves what if you set out in the
:33:15. > :33:17.first argument. It makes sure the executive cannot consider spending
:33:18. > :33:22.plans that exceed the block grant allocated from the Treasury. Further
:33:23. > :33:28.to the points that were made by members today, I would like to
:33:29. > :33:35.respond to some of them. Can I join with others in sending condolences
:33:36. > :33:40.to his family, and I hope that he knows we are here to support him in
:33:41. > :33:46.his lost, and also to their family. We are incredibly grateful for the
:33:47. > :33:58.forensic support that his committee gives to Northern Ireland politics.
:33:59. > :34:04.Indeed, the government pot -- it helps us build trust in northern
:34:05. > :34:08.Ireland. As a former member of the Scottish Parliament, and the
:34:09. > :34:11.internal routines of devolution, some of the measures the SNP support
:34:12. > :34:15.in this bill are not measures that would have been right for them in
:34:16. > :34:20.Scotland, by now that they do so for the reasons that she eloquently
:34:21. > :34:23.articulated earlier. To try to move Northern Ireland forward and try to
:34:24. > :34:28.achieve a settlement to allow them to move forward and put those
:34:29. > :34:35.troubles behind them. I'd like to pay tribute to the DEP, and the
:34:36. > :34:40.Member for Belfast North, who articulated history between former
:34:41. > :34:44.first minister. -- DEP. Without the former first minister we would not
:34:45. > :34:48.be here discussing this or the previous bill. I am grateful for the
:34:49. > :34:52.support they have given to the government to resolve some of the
:34:53. > :35:02.issues that led to that in last year. I am very grateful to the
:35:03. > :35:10.positive attitude from the DEP, and the support they have put in place.
:35:11. > :35:14.It is that determination to deal with those issues in the Stormont,
:35:15. > :35:18.by the executive, by the first minister, that means I am incredibly
:35:19. > :35:22.optimistic for Northern Ireland in how it is going to progress. I hope
:35:23. > :35:26.that the bonds that effectively appeared in the road when I was
:35:27. > :35:30.appointed are put behind us. We are moving forward, killing with a
:35:31. > :35:34.paramilitary past, hopefully stopping any in the future, but also
:35:35. > :35:40.grasped with both hands the opportunities, and the economic
:35:41. > :35:45.challenges that are presented. To the member of Belfast South, I hear
:35:46. > :35:52.the issues about legacy. We all want to solve those issues, and in the
:35:53. > :35:55.last few weeks and months, myself and my friend the Secretary of
:35:56. > :35:59.State, the Minister for Armed Forces, we met with the Justice
:36:00. > :36:04.minister, the deputy and first minister, I think that everyone is
:36:05. > :36:08.united in trying to get to a position where he can deal with the
:36:09. > :36:14.legacy of the past in order to move forward. The Treasury has agreed to
:36:15. > :36:19.a package of funding, ?150 million to fund dealing with those issues.
:36:20. > :36:25.Of course, we cannot just impose that hundred and ?50 million on an
:36:26. > :36:29.unreformed system. We are all trying to work together to produce a
:36:30. > :36:34.long-term solution, not a short-term solution for some of the issues. I
:36:35. > :36:41.would like to say one thing about national security. It is often in
:36:42. > :36:51.need about, that it is somehow being used as a block, unreasonable block
:36:52. > :36:55.on progress. Try the troubles, informers, neighbours, workmates,
:36:56. > :36:59.ordinary members of the public top security forces against the people
:37:00. > :37:02.who intimidated their own communities. It wasn't just
:37:03. > :37:05.informers, but everybody will stop people who didn't agree with
:37:06. > :37:10.violence. They might have been nationalists. Those people deserve
:37:11. > :37:13.our protection. Not only do they deserve it, but we have a duty to
:37:14. > :37:18.protect those people, because without their information and,
:37:19. > :37:22.without the helpful tip-offs, the confidential hotline being used,
:37:23. > :37:26.without people in the heart of the communities saying that they now
:37:27. > :37:29.stand for balance and we want to and paramilitary bullying, we would not
:37:30. > :37:32.have reached the end of the troubles. I think it should be
:37:33. > :37:36.remembered that when people and around national security as a
:37:37. > :37:39.throwaway line, at the heart of it it is about protecting those people,
:37:40. > :37:44.and giving them the duty of protection that we owe them, because
:37:45. > :37:48.without them I think more blood would have been shed on those dates
:37:49. > :37:52.of Northern Ireland. We shouldn't forget the role that they play. When
:37:53. > :38:00.asked I thank him for giving way. Would he agree that the place
:38:01. > :38:03.ombudsman, an instance, in terms of their investigation, they have
:38:04. > :38:09.always respected that fully. And never preached or compromised
:38:10. > :38:15.anybody's interest in that regard. Surely, others could be trusted to
:38:16. > :38:18.adhere to the same standard? Everyone is interested in the powers
:38:19. > :38:27.that they are granted. The national security does not discover actions a
:38:28. > :38:32.few, but a whole range of people involved in trying to make sure that
:38:33. > :38:42.our society is safe and secure. We should just rubber that national
:38:43. > :38:49.security is not used lightly. It is openly scrutinised. By the courts.
:38:50. > :38:54.The corner, and the judges often make the final decisions on many of
:38:55. > :38:57.these issues, and a CD full fax. It is important that we remember that
:38:58. > :39:06.national security is actually about protecting life and people. The
:39:07. > :39:09.honourable member is right about the financial provisions. We think it is
:39:10. > :39:14.very important that in order to allow a stable and secure budget to
:39:15. > :39:18.go forward, to allow everyone in the assembly to make sure that they have
:39:19. > :39:24.a role in producing a budget, and delivering services for a better
:39:25. > :39:31.governance and better services for the people in Northern Ireland. It
:39:32. > :39:34.is a good example of making government work better, and we are
:39:35. > :39:42.delighted that as the government we can measure that is put in place. To
:39:43. > :39:46.the number of South Antrim. On the definition of paramilitary activity,
:39:47. > :39:49.that is, in our view, to be left to the commission to decide. It would
:39:50. > :39:52.be hard in a piece of primary legislation to describe a
:39:53. > :39:57.paramilitary activity. It is the government pot make you it is not
:39:58. > :40:04.for us to prescribed to the four commissioners and the commissioner
:40:05. > :40:06.how they should look at. I hear the member's comments about the
:40:07. > :40:10.paramilitaries leaving the stage. When I hear that I think I wouldn't
:40:11. > :40:14.like to be in the green room at the time of that. There is no place for
:40:15. > :40:18.paramilitaries in Northern Ireland, and there never has been. We must
:40:19. > :40:24.make sure that there never is in the future. I think, I welcome his
:40:25. > :40:26.support for the bill. I welcome his observations. The Independent
:40:27. > :40:32.monetary commission have the macro will cover paramilitary activity in
:40:33. > :40:35.the south of Ireland. That is important, and I know that people in
:40:36. > :40:40.Ireland will take note of that. The guard have been supported over the
:40:41. > :40:46.years to ensuring that cross-border activity is counted. They know that
:40:47. > :40:49.all of this is effective between North and the South, something that
:40:50. > :41:00.we will focus on. He made a powerful point. It should be absolutely clear
:41:01. > :41:05.that it was many groups that killed innocent people on the streets of
:41:06. > :41:13.Northern Ireland, and indeed on the mainland of the UK. Selective leaks
:41:14. > :41:20.and salacious allegations contained -- cannot change that fact. The
:41:21. > :41:23.narrative that has been growing is very dangerous to the history of
:41:24. > :41:29.Northern Ireland, because the reality is that it was those groups
:41:30. > :41:32.that chose to go out on a night and kill people. It was those groups
:41:33. > :41:37.were planted the bombs, and we won't let the alternative narrative the
:41:38. > :41:40.plaintiff, that somehow somebody else caused it, and therefore they
:41:41. > :41:42.were not guilty of what they did that day. We hear that loud and
:41:43. > :41:50.clear. Given that these organizations need
:41:51. > :41:56.to be blamed for what they did, the team now regret that the British
:41:57. > :42:02.Government maintain the status as a legal organisation and consistently
:42:03. > :42:08.refused to prescribe them? Well, if memory serves me right, the word in
:42:09. > :42:12.1992, I think I was not in this house, I was not privy to the
:42:13. > :42:16.government, in fact in 1992I was walking around in west Belfast. The
:42:17. > :42:19.idea that I can condemn or support the ruling, all I know is that at
:42:20. > :42:26.the time, I was serving in northern Ireland, I was grateful that they
:42:27. > :42:30.were prescribed, any paramilitary organisation should be prescribed
:42:31. > :42:35.and the organisation that uses fear, terror, and bullying should have of
:42:36. > :42:39.course been not only prescribe it also boasted that take part should
:42:40. > :42:44.be convicted. To the member of South Down, we should not forget in this
:42:45. > :42:48.house that the SDLP long-standing opposition to paramilitary
:42:49. > :42:54.intimidation, very often he you bear the brunt of that intimidation and
:42:55. > :43:00.many of the party, all the parties in this house have experienced
:43:01. > :43:04.first-hand the intimidation of paramilitaries. Either within their
:43:05. > :43:06.own community that they represented or indeed the neighbouring
:43:07. > :43:12.communities that sought to keep them out. I pay tribute to that
:43:13. > :43:19.long-standing commitment to peace in the democratic process, don't forget
:43:20. > :43:22.that, I don't take it lightly at the issues of national security. On the
:43:23. > :43:26.Legacy issues as I have said earlier, we are trying our best, all
:43:27. > :43:30.of us, my right honourable friend regularly has meetings with the
:43:31. > :43:34.victims of the communities to make sure that they feel they are doing
:43:35. > :43:37.our best. We are going to get there, we are good to try and resolve it,
:43:38. > :43:43.and that will be hopefully as soon as we can all get agreement. Can I
:43:44. > :43:46.press the Minister once more on this issue, he mentioned the Legacy
:43:47. > :43:52.issues in dealing with the legacy of the past to stop after secretary of
:43:53. > :43:56.state, I want you to be clear, throughout this interesting and the
:43:57. > :43:59.debate, does the Minister recognised, when he and the
:44:00. > :44:02.secretary of State look again at releasing some of the funding for
:44:03. > :44:08.the Treasury and the government have put aside for dealing with legacy
:44:09. > :44:11.issues to fund the PSN I and the corner services to deal with some of
:44:12. > :44:16.these legacy issues which were supposed to be dealt with by other
:44:17. > :44:19.institutions because of the inability to actually come to an
:44:20. > :44:24.agreement, they have been that to deal with it but have not been given
:44:25. > :44:28.the resources to tackle it, will the Minister look again at that?
:44:29. > :44:31.Absolutely, we will support any measures that field with the Legacy,
:44:32. > :44:36.my right honourable friend said that, what we must make sure is that
:44:37. > :44:42.we cannot just release the money, we need all the actors on the stage to
:44:43. > :44:46.produce the solution. We need the victims to pour the solution, we
:44:47. > :44:50.need the PSN I to support the solution, we need the courts to
:44:51. > :44:53.support the solution, we need the executive support the solution, if
:44:54. > :44:59.he were to release money and no one else was supporting the schemes or
:45:00. > :45:02.the Koerner's for example court changes than we would not
:45:03. > :45:06.necessarily solve the issues. We will absolutely look with all
:45:07. > :45:12.seriousness and all support at any measures that come to us for solving
:45:13. > :45:15.the Legacy issues. The good news is, and anyone who has ever been in
:45:16. > :45:19.government will know is that we have caught the agreement of the Treasury
:45:20. > :45:24.for the sum and principle which is obviously have the battle, ?150
:45:25. > :45:27.million is there, I think that is meaning that the gap between getting
:45:28. > :45:29.the money and delivering it is simply a matter about getting an
:45:30. > :45:36.agreement between all the significant stakeholders in Northern
:45:37. > :45:40.Ireland. I think that is something that we are all determined to do it
:45:41. > :45:45.is one of our priorities, once this bill has passed, we are all trying
:45:46. > :45:51.to get there, and we will work with all parties to try and do it.
:45:52. > :45:57.Including matter that the Speaker... Can I think the Minister for giving
:45:58. > :46:03.way, whenever I was speaking, I referred these pics of monies
:46:04. > :46:07.between the national crime agency and the PSN I, would it be possible,
:46:08. > :46:13.Madam Deputy Speaker, for the Minister to follow that up in
:46:14. > :46:17.writing with an answer to me? , while what I can say, she reminded
:46:18. > :46:24.me of one of the points, ?28 million has been allocated for it typing
:46:25. > :46:27.paramilitary activity, how that is divided is as far as I'm
:46:28. > :46:32.understanding operational decisions, but who needs it and where should it
:46:33. > :46:37.go, but there has been a sum of ?20 million, we think that is a step in
:46:38. > :46:43.the right direction to tackling it, and if there is any more to tell I
:46:44. > :46:45.was certainly right to her, but the including I would like to remind the
:46:46. > :46:51.House that the Speaker, including I would like to remind the House of
:46:52. > :46:54.disability support it plays a significant part in our efforts to
:46:55. > :46:57.support a stable and workable devolution settlement in Northern
:46:58. > :47:02.Ireland. I therefore Madam Deputy Speaker she helped to support the
:47:03. > :47:07.bill. Hear, hear! The question is the don't be read a second time, as
:47:08. > :47:15.many as that opinion say Aye's, of the contrary No's. I think the Aye's
:47:16. > :47:19.have it. The Aye's have it. Programme motion to be moved
:47:20. > :47:24.formerly. I baked them both. The question is on the order papers, as
:47:25. > :47:28.many of that say Aye's, on the contrary No's, the Aye's have it,
:47:29. > :47:35.the Aye's have it. Resolution to be moved formerly? I. The question is
:47:36. > :47:40.as on the order papers, as many say Aye's, the contrary No's, the Aye's
:47:41. > :47:47.have it, the Aye's have it. Notion number four on road traffic. To
:47:48. > :47:52.move? Not move. Notion number five on referendums, minister to move? I
:47:53. > :47:56.beg to move. The question is as on the order papers, as many of that
:47:57. > :48:01.opinion say Aye's, on the contrary No's, I think the Aye's have it, the
:48:02. > :48:08.Aye's have it. Notion number six on estimates, minister to move? Not
:48:09. > :48:14.move. Not move. We now come to motion number seven. Relating to
:48:15. > :48:17.education committee bill. I baked them both. The question is that on
:48:18. > :48:21.the order paper, as many of that opinion say Aye's, on the contrary
:48:22. > :48:25.No's, I think the Aye's have it. We now come to motion number eight
:48:26. > :48:31.relating to doing committee on budgetary in the bail. The question
:48:32. > :48:34.is that on the order paper as many of that opinion say Aye's, on the
:48:35. > :48:42.contrary No's, I think the Aye's have it. I baked a move that this
:48:43. > :48:50.house do now adjourn. The question is that this house do now adjourn,
:48:51. > :48:58.in Blackford? Hear, hear!. Thank you matter that the Speaker, in our out
:48:59. > :49:01.of the European Union, matter G Speaker, it is right that Parliament
:49:02. > :49:06.take is its possibilities as far as security concerned, seriously. As
:49:07. > :49:12.part of this debate, we need to take course possibilities seriously for a
:49:13. > :49:17.the environment, it is worth recapping why we had emergency
:49:18. > :49:23.vessels am a Debian a response to the 1994 report following the oil
:49:24. > :49:29.spill off the coast, allowing the disaster 86,000 tonnes of oil were
:49:30. > :49:34.released into the North Sea. We got lucky to some extent that the oil
:49:35. > :49:38.was largely dispersed. In other areas and in other circumstances,
:49:39. > :49:46.such an oil spill could be devastating. The ships were put in
:49:47. > :49:52.place to protect human and marine life. Men deputy speaker, it was
:49:53. > :50:02.right in 1994, still remains right today. The desire to provide safety
:50:03. > :50:03.cannot come at the expense of a penny-pinching government walking
:50:04. > :50:09.away from Asus possibilities. Hear, hear! It is irresponsibility of this
:50:10. > :50:15.government to maintain that protection, the UK Government kept
:50:16. > :50:22.hearing is all in the Scottish referendum that we were after
:50:23. > :50:27.together. How can there be any entity in that statement that this
:50:28. > :50:36.government does not take our marine safety seriously. What price, our
:50:37. > :50:39.safety cannot be traded away on the desired to steer course unless
:50:40. > :50:46.minister. If the government, might as aunt Sadie, it compromises on its
:50:47. > :50:50.legitimacy to govern. In 2011 among the UK Government announced a
:50:51. > :50:56.movement of the vessels although there was a subsequent agreement to
:50:57. > :51:02.retain one vessel. This is now under threat of being removed next month.
:51:03. > :51:06.Sir Alan Massey, Chief Executive Officer did two weeks ago that
:51:07. > :51:17.following a formal risk assessment that their was unacceptable. This is
:51:18. > :51:22.unacceptable. It was also a accessible to remove the vessel, if
:51:23. > :51:29.there easy a risk in the that I love, there is a risk in the West.
:51:30. > :51:36.Put simply that it is too far away to respond quickly enough to any
:51:37. > :51:39.incidents of the West of Scotland. I thank my Honorable friend for
:51:40. > :51:45.securing this very important debate and he will of course be aware that
:51:46. > :51:50.is one of the five islands, we have repeatedly called on the government
:51:51. > :51:56.to address maritime safety caused by the removal of the vessel in 2010,
:51:57. > :52:02.2000 11. Would he agree that this cannot be done properly by having a
:52:03. > :52:08.single DTD based alone, and it is deeply worrying that the only
:52:09. > :52:15.existing ETD is currently under threat. The possession as we come to
:52:16. > :52:17.find ourselves in... His intervention is very long, if they
:52:18. > :52:25.could keep the intervention grief, I am sure many other members could
:52:26. > :52:32.come in. My last point would be it has been left vulnerable, does he
:52:33. > :52:36.believe your mobile of the EDV. Would be utterly unthinkable. I
:52:37. > :52:44.think him for his intervention, he is correct, we cannot comprehend the
:52:45. > :52:48.risk of the loss of the vessel, it is true as he said there is no way
:52:49. > :52:55.in reasonable time that that vessel based there could get to large parts
:52:56. > :53:00.of my constituency, we have been placed at a level of risk which is
:53:01. > :53:06.unacceptable to all of us. I have asked the Minister, does he agree
:53:07. > :53:10.with the chief executive that removal of the base vessel is
:53:11. > :53:14.unacceptable, and would he give an assurance of the House tonight that
:53:15. > :53:18.the government will find the necessary funds to make sure that
:53:19. > :53:21.that vessel remained in place. This is a very simple question, and it
:53:22. > :53:28.requires a very simple yes or no answer. Madam Deputy Speaker,
:53:29. > :53:32.throughout Europe... I will make it a bit of progress and give way.
:53:33. > :53:36.Throughout Europe, the provision of emergency vessels is commonplace,
:53:37. > :53:43.for example, in France, Germany, Norway and the Netherlands. It is
:53:44. > :53:47.good practice to protect your environment and coastal communities,
:53:48. > :53:52.we should be doing the same. The Netherlands only put in place such a
:53:53. > :53:56.capability in April 2014 to provide protection for shipping and coastal
:53:57. > :54:01.communities. When so many other countries see the sense in this,
:54:02. > :54:07.what is the UK Government not accept it possibilities? That is all we're
:54:08. > :54:13.asking. Hear, hear! There has been some chatter, but maybe the vessel
:54:14. > :54:16.might be saved. This of course would be welcomed as a threat should never
:54:17. > :54:22.have been there in the first place. It does not go far enough as the
:54:23. > :54:25.Honorable member said, we need the reinstatement of the second vessel.
:54:26. > :54:31.I say to the Minister tonight, do the right thing, deliver some good
:54:32. > :54:34.news, and put the two vessels back where they should be in the northern
:54:35. > :54:39.islands and in the western isles of our country. Hear, hear! Show us
:54:40. > :54:43.minister that the government takes our safety seriously, don't leave us
:54:44. > :54:48.exposed to the threat of an environmental disaster. I am
:54:49. > :54:53.grateful to him for giving way, would he agree with me that in terms
:54:54. > :54:56.of safety and all of the other issues you buy highlighted that the
:54:57. > :55:00.UK Government need to take into account the fact that in the coming
:55:01. > :55:04.year is over 200 movements of nuclear material will be taking
:55:05. > :55:10.place and some of them will be transported by sea. Hear, hear!
:55:11. > :55:13.Before the Honorable member continues, Kenner man members that
:55:14. > :55:17.they are speaking to the chair and at the moment people are directly
:55:18. > :55:19.addressing each other and I would be grateful if members could direct
:55:20. > :55:25.their comments to the chair, thank you. Thank you, I do agree with my
:55:26. > :55:29.Honorable friend and the point he makes. I would argue there is a
:55:30. > :55:34.wider point, what we are missing here is if we had responsibility for
:55:35. > :55:39.our marine environment in Scotland, we would make sure that we had chips
:55:40. > :55:43.in place to protect over coastal community, but moreover, this
:55:44. > :55:49.unbelievable threat we face of nuclear waste being moved by sea,
:55:50. > :55:52.down the West Coast of Scotland would certainly not be tolerated by
:55:53. > :56:01.an independent Scottish Government. Hear, hear! Let us think about the
:56:02. > :56:05.risks we face in the West and north coast of Scotland. Extreme weather,
:56:06. > :56:13.treacherous coastlines and changing title patterns throughout the year,
:56:14. > :56:17.most treacherous waters and the threat of nuclear waste has been
:56:18. > :56:22.set, the threat of nuclear waste being transmitted on the coast
:56:23. > :56:25.leaves me cold. The possibility, Madam Deputy Speaker of no emergency
:56:26. > :56:31.towing misses being leaves me horrified. But added that he
:56:32. > :56:35.Speaker, the need for such vessels was cruelly demonstrated when two
:56:36. > :56:41.days after the announcement of the withdrawal of the vessels in 2011,
:56:42. > :56:49.the ship was sent to the aid of a nuclear submarine that had run
:56:50. > :56:54.aground. We don't know if it was carrying nuclear weapons, whether it
:56:55. > :57:00.was or not it's a moot point, but a nuclear sub co-writing the Isle of
:57:01. > :57:05.Skye was quite an incident. To say that such an event could not happen
:57:06. > :57:08.again? We need the security and the emergency towing vessel. I might add
:57:09. > :57:13.that the towing vessel provide some security to us, a uses the premise
:57:14. > :57:21.all presents no security to the people of Scotland. Hear, hear! What
:57:22. > :57:27.would happen if there is another, heaven forbid? We have also learnt
:57:28. > :57:32.that the TVs are not the responsibility, and they are not a
:57:33. > :57:37.budget priority. Even so, the MC admits that there is an crease in
:57:38. > :57:41.risk of the TVs that are not available, you almost could not make
:57:42. > :57:46.this up. There is an acceptance of risk, those of us in these
:57:47. > :57:49.communities, we can take the risk, we are expendable. That is the
:57:50. > :57:55.message from this government. Why should the Minister care, while I is
:57:56. > :57:58.a local MP would care for my communities, I will fight for my
:57:59. > :58:03.communities, and I want the government to take responsibility.
:58:04. > :58:08.What is the point of the MCA if it is not a statutory responsibility,
:58:09. > :58:16.why would the Minister not make this a sedentary responsibility? At me,
:58:17. > :58:23.if I may do with the issue of such vessels in the constituency. This
:58:24. > :58:26.wanton disregard for the Marine safety takes place at the time of
:58:27. > :58:32.the MCA bus was considering an application for ship to ship
:58:33. > :58:35.transfers. Here again, the government seems to be coming up
:58:36. > :58:37.short in discharging its responsibilities to consult
:58:38. > :58:42.effectively and take seriously environmental considerations. It is
:58:43. > :58:45.environmental concerns that demonstrate the need for our Marine
:58:46. > :58:48.safety to be taken seriously and our communities need to have the comfort
:58:49. > :58:53.of knowing that emergency towing vessels aren't a part of the
:58:54. > :58:56.government's response ability. We have the situation that the Scottish
:58:57. > :59:00.Government are responsible for Marine safety yet incredible as it
:59:01. > :59:03.sounds, we are not aware as to whether or not Marine Scotland were
:59:04. > :59:08.consulted as a part of this process. The application for the ship to ship
:59:09. > :59:14.transfer data the 5th of November states the MCA confirmed the main
:59:15. > :59:16.consult these beady local government authority, Scottish Environmental
:59:17. > :59:20.Protection Agency, and Scottish national heritage with the
:59:21. > :00:24.appropriate NGOs. Mr Speaker, Madam Speaker, you will note the
:00:25. > :00:37.The Minister has an issue with cost. I am pleased to see many attending
:00:38. > :00:41.this debate, because in the previous there were a few at a debate like
:00:42. > :00:47.this. The reality is that the UK government have been fast and loose
:00:48. > :00:51.because one and 25, 150, one in a hundred year event happens. They
:00:52. > :00:55.have no insurance policy as they are playing fast and loose with the
:00:56. > :01:01.Scottish coastline that he and I represent and care about. If the UK
:01:02. > :01:08.government respected Collins and Thomas as a union of families, they
:01:09. > :01:12.would allocate responsibilities. I thank him for that fine
:01:13. > :01:16.intervention. I look forward to hearing the Minister answering it.
:01:17. > :01:19.We haven't had one yet. I may say that five of us went to see Mr last
:01:20. > :01:25.November have been waiting quite some time for this government to
:01:26. > :01:30.take its responsibilities seriously. As I was mentioning the Minister has
:01:31. > :01:35.an issue with cost. The government should be looking imaginatively at
:01:36. > :01:42.looking at ETVs multifunctional in accordance with other departments.
:01:43. > :01:51.Increased White House dues, produce, inspection dues, and other
:01:52. > :01:54.activities. Time doesn't allow for revenue stream explanation, but
:01:55. > :01:59.there are many streams for income. A matter to myself and other
:02:00. > :02:05.colleagues bustier, and Nancy stated that there is no formal vessel
:02:06. > :02:10.traffic management system in the northern West -- or West region.
:02:11. > :02:14.This is a voluntary important scheme. I find that quite remarkable
:02:15. > :02:18.in this day and age, that we don't know what ships, and what dangerous
:02:19. > :02:25.cargoes are afloat in our waters. Nonetheless, Beta as it may, the
:02:26. > :02:30.voluntary scheme showed that in the northern island, there were 81
:02:31. > :02:36.tankers, and 290 general cargo vessels over a 30 day period to the
:02:37. > :02:41.9th of November last year. For the ministries West, the respective
:02:42. > :02:44.figures were 66 tankers and 202 general cargo vessels. We're not
:02:45. > :02:50.talking about the odd cargo. My honourable friend said, whether it
:02:51. > :02:57.is a wooden 25 year, I won 50 euros, or a 100 year risk, these risks you
:02:58. > :03:03.cannot afford to take. I will come back to the scheme, because we need
:03:04. > :03:07.to know how many vessels are in our waters. These numbers suggest that
:03:08. > :03:18.my communities need protection that ETVs would offer. He then later on
:03:19. > :03:24.the 17th of November includes, for example, an incident on the 19th of
:03:25. > :03:39.March 2012 when it is shipped, went aground. As there is no ETV in the
:03:40. > :03:45.Western Islands, the vessel was rescued. On the 7th of April, 2014,
:03:46. > :03:53.ETV went to the aid of another ship off of Cape wrath. More recently,
:03:54. > :03:56.the ETV went to the scene of the granting of another ship.
:03:57. > :04:03.Interestingly, the report I have states that the location was well
:04:04. > :04:14.outside the ETV's operational area. There you have it. Even in the NCAA
:04:15. > :04:18.except themselves that it is not ideally situated in order to give
:04:19. > :04:23.succor to the constituents in our area. Let's dwell on that, and in
:04:24. > :04:26.the NCAA conceding that the distance is too great to offer security. If
:04:27. > :04:34.there is one thing that demonstrates the need to maintain ETVs serving
:04:35. > :04:39.the north end of the West, that is it. Are we to sit back and hope for
:04:40. > :04:43.the best? Or will the government meet its responsibilities and
:04:44. > :04:51.provide securities to the coastal communities? We don't know what
:04:52. > :04:57.votes are going out on the West Coast of Scotland at the moment.
:04:58. > :05:04.Looking at marine trafficker, there is an oil and chemical drinker with
:05:05. > :05:10.a tonnes. There is no insurance policy at the moment, because of the
:05:11. > :05:14.negligence of the UK government. The number makes a salient point about
:05:15. > :05:17.we don't know what's going up there. We do know, but the UK government
:05:18. > :05:23.doesn't know because they are not looking, and they are not worried
:05:24. > :05:34.because it is Scotland. When neck is not Westminster, why should they
:05:35. > :05:39.care? -- it was a general cargo vessel, could we stop and think for
:05:40. > :05:45.one minute? What happened if that was in oil vessel that had run
:05:46. > :05:49.aground? Just think of the environmental damage that could take
:05:50. > :05:55.place. Think of the threat to the tourist industry in the area. These
:05:56. > :06:00.are fragile economies that depend on tourism. We cannot accept those
:06:01. > :06:05.risks. The government has to act to protect the communities up and down
:06:06. > :06:13.to the West Coast and Miller coast of Scotland. On the 7th of May,
:06:14. > :06:21.2015, a ship rolled down and was told to lyric. This is an incident
:06:22. > :06:25.where the ETV was deployed. It was deployed on 13 occasions between
:06:26. > :06:28.November 2011 and November 20 15. That is a significant number of
:06:29. > :06:35.incidents, but we should remember that these vessels are required, as
:06:36. > :06:46.my friend said, as an insurance policy. I'm going to wind up.
:06:47. > :06:52.Incidentally, the ship crashing in Italy was in Orkney before it was
:06:53. > :06:56.deployed. Yet another warning of the need for an ETV. The cost associated
:06:57. > :07:05.with these vessels are in insurance against much more significant costs
:07:06. > :07:09.to society of an environmental disaster, for example an oil spill
:07:10. > :07:15.on the coastline. Providing such vessels is a price that we must all
:07:16. > :07:22.pay, and I ask the Minister to positively this evening. Can I
:07:23. > :07:29.congratulate the honourable gentleman on the securing this very
:07:30. > :07:33.important debate. And having the foresight to do it when the main
:07:34. > :07:37.business in the chamber collapsed early, which will allow a few others
:07:38. > :07:44.of us to contribute. I hope other honourable members will have
:07:45. > :07:49.something to say. The honourable gentleman has already explained, at
:07:50. > :07:58.some length, the importance of this island and coastal community. It was
:07:59. > :08:04.not, I think, a great surprise when we read statement that the provision
:08:05. > :08:12.of this emergency service was no longer a priority for the NCAA and
:08:13. > :08:15.emergency department. It was a short-sighted decision. The extent
:08:16. > :08:19.to which the NCAA have been culpable in relation to the management of
:08:20. > :08:27.this resource, and the point I was going to make to the honourable
:08:28. > :08:33.Desmond toward his and, wasn't that, in fact, it is not just the way that
:08:34. > :08:38.we only have one ETV operates. The way that the NCAA have operated in
:08:39. > :08:46.recent times, they have been more reluctant to test that. The
:08:47. > :08:52.gentleman made reference to a ship from a fish farming company that was
:08:53. > :08:57.owned and operated by constituents of mine. I was in contact with them
:08:58. > :09:03.and have been in correspondence about this particular incident.
:09:04. > :09:06.Essentially, that vote was linked with the life but holding off of the
:09:07. > :09:11.docs, and it was quite some time that they could be persuaded to
:09:12. > :09:20.task. That is illustrative of the attitude that the and she has
:09:21. > :09:32.towards -- NCAA has toured the emergency towing vessels. They
:09:33. > :09:39.outlined their risk assessment in February. That was one of the most
:09:40. > :09:42.concerning episodes, explanations that I have heard from any
:09:43. > :09:50.governmental department or agency in my 14 and a half years as a member
:09:51. > :09:56.of Parliament. First of all, the risk assessment has not been done
:09:57. > :10:00.with accordance with industry standards. It has not been done with
:10:01. > :10:07.people who are independent of the agency. It has been done by one
:10:08. > :10:14.person, not a panel, and an employee of the NCAA. When you heard the
:10:15. > :10:19.risks of assessment, they drill down in some detail into the question of
:10:20. > :10:27.collision. In fact, because of the volume of traffic, collision in the
:10:28. > :10:31.channels and elsewhere has never really been a problem. They have
:10:32. > :10:35.access to the risk of something that has never actually happened in the
:10:36. > :10:41.past, while ignoring the actual risks that we have seen, and
:10:42. > :10:46.encountered in everyday situations. Some of which the honourable
:10:47. > :10:55.gentleman has already touched on. They look in detail at the traffic
:10:56. > :11:09.in these channels, which consists, notably, not exclusively, of ferry
:11:10. > :11:19.traffic. Modern, well vessels. They did not even look at the traffic
:11:20. > :11:25.going into other places. The oil tankers that form the basis for the
:11:26. > :11:34.need for ETVs going into Shetland were not part of their risk
:11:35. > :11:38.assessment. It was a seriously deficient to work. Even in that
:11:39. > :11:45.piece of work, for all of its apparent deficiencies, still
:11:46. > :11:50.concluded that at the end of the day, to remove the ETV would leave
:11:51. > :11:57.the north and north western waters of skull and exposed to unacceptable
:11:58. > :12:02.levels of risks. -- Scotland. They went on to speak about the
:12:03. > :12:06.availability of alternatives. It was well apparent from the discussion
:12:07. > :12:10.that followed on the 10th of February, that in fact, the MCA does
:12:11. > :12:17.not see where these alternatives are going to come from. All of this
:12:18. > :12:24.becoming a mere seven weeks before the contract is going to end on the
:12:25. > :12:28.31st of March. This is all work which, if the NCAA were serious
:12:29. > :12:31.about discharging its responsibilities with safety, should
:12:32. > :12:38.have been done before they were prepared to offer ETVs any
:12:39. > :12:45.confidence of spending review. It wasn't done, and frankly what we are
:12:46. > :12:53.left with is a mess. It is not fault of the Minister. The fault lies with
:12:54. > :12:57.the NCAA, but it is the Minister's responsibility. I do not see how it
:12:58. > :13:03.can possibly be fixed between now and the 31st of March. They will
:13:04. > :13:07.apparently go back to Edinburgh on the 4th of March and see what the
:13:08. > :13:12.NCAA have to say at that point. Given the parameters that are
:13:13. > :13:17.outlined on the 10th of February, I don't see what new can possibly be
:13:18. > :13:24.done. I ask of the Minister tonight, my asked is that if you can offer us
:13:25. > :13:28.nothing else, can he offer us this: a little bit more breathing space,
:13:29. > :13:34.so that the work that should have been done thus far it can be done.
:13:35. > :13:39.It would be criminally irresponsible for the government to allow that
:13:40. > :13:46.contract to lapse on the 31st of March, and for there to be no
:13:47. > :13:53.coverage thereafter. This is a matter, Madam Deputy Speaker, where
:13:54. > :13:58.the concerns have come not just from the industries, but also from the
:13:59. > :14:02.local authorities. I would hope that if the Minister is prepared to offer
:14:03. > :14:10.us a bit more time, he might agree to meet with me, other parliamentary
:14:11. > :14:15.colleagues, and with local authorities who did actually make
:14:16. > :14:18.that request of the NCAA on the 10th of February. Perhaps when he comes
:14:19. > :14:28.this evening, the Minister will tell us whether he is prepared to do
:14:29. > :14:33.that. Even better, would he be able to call that meeting in the north of
:14:34. > :14:37.Scotland or the aisles. This would give us breathing space to look at
:14:38. > :14:42.the way that this contract has been operated in the past. It is
:14:43. > :14:47.expensive, we know, but it is an expensive contract that is worth
:14:48. > :14:53.paying. There is an opportunity at the moment, because of the volume of
:14:54. > :15:00.work that is going to the togs that have the capacity that would be
:15:01. > :15:06.required to do this work, to get a good deal for the government and
:15:07. > :15:12.taxpayer. One of the two but he meeting at the 10th of February was
:15:13. > :15:22.the chair of the tuggs operating Association. He said that he could
:15:23. > :15:27.secure a contract that run for five, ten, 15 years. It would also give
:15:28. > :15:30.us, within island and coastal communities, the knowledge that we
:15:31. > :15:36.have a provision going forward, and we wouldn't just be living from
:15:37. > :15:43.cover into spending review to Comprehensive Spending Review.
:15:44. > :15:56.Another honourable member reminded us of the genesis of the tuggs and
:15:57. > :16:01.other report. In 1992I was still dealing with the long-tail of cases
:16:02. > :16:14.coming out of that when I was first elected year, nine years later, in
:16:15. > :16:18.2001. It is now a -- it is not an exaggeration that lives were changed
:16:19. > :16:23.forever that the ship ran aground. We talk about the impact on the
:16:24. > :16:29.industries, about the economic, environmental impact, they are
:16:30. > :16:33.absolutely true. The human impact of something like that happening is
:16:34. > :16:39.absolutely phenomenal, and they just don't know how you could put a price
:16:40. > :16:43.on that. I have seen what happens if you don't take it seriously, and you
:16:44. > :16:52.allow it to happen again. That is what happened in the northwest
:16:53. > :16:57.corner of Spain. The prestige rank aground there, the second major oil
:16:58. > :17:03.spill in that area in ten years. I remember the scene that as a newly
:17:04. > :17:08.elected MP and being absolutely horrified by what I saw in terms of
:17:09. > :17:13.the posttraumatic effects on these communities which had been blighted,
:17:14. > :17:18.at that time not just once, but twice. The communities we are
:17:19. > :17:22.talking about here, because of their location and their geography, their
:17:23. > :17:27.history and background, are some of the most precious and fragile that
:17:28. > :17:33.we have within our country. That is why it would be, as the honourable
:17:34. > :17:36.member has already said, unacceptable to leave them exposed
:17:37. > :17:46.to for their risk anyway it is currently proposed. Thank you very
:17:47. > :17:52.much indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. Could I congratulate the honourable
:17:53. > :17:56.member for securing the debate this evening on the subject of ETVs.
:17:57. > :17:59.Could I suggest only the Department for transport could come up with a
:18:00. > :18:07.three letter acronym for a three letter word tugg. I share his
:18:08. > :18:16.passion for protecting the status coast. It was said that I didn't
:18:17. > :18:21.care about Scotland. Gandhi is every much a part of my country as your
:18:22. > :18:24.church or any other part. I care about the environment of Scotland,
:18:25. > :18:39.and the welfare of Seaman on that part of our seas. I and the given
:18:40. > :18:45.concerned, will see his concern manifested not only in the retention
:18:46. > :18:51.of the ETV togs in the northern isles, but the return of those in
:18:52. > :18:55.other places? Let me develop my argument, and I will come to that
:18:56. > :18:59.particular point. Scotland is not only a stunning landscape, but a
:19:00. > :19:03.home of important industries like agriculture, and fishing, which are
:19:04. > :19:09.economically important to Scotland and the whole of the UK. Protecting
:19:10. > :19:14.the environment and safety at sea are our top priorities, and a point
:19:15. > :19:20.was raised during the honourable member's comments about the oil
:19:21. > :19:25.transfer license. Could I point out that Marine Scotland were directly
:19:26. > :19:30.consulted on the 10th of December, and on the 8th of February when the
:19:31. > :19:33.consultation ended they were not responsive. They said they were not
:19:34. > :19:38.intending to respond. I hope that clarifies that particular point.
:19:39. > :19:40.Shipping has a good safety record, but we must guard against
:19:41. > :19:53.complacency, because incidents do happen. The latest tragedy to befall
:19:54. > :19:59.the Scottish coast, the oil was disbursed we were lucky. But I
:20:00. > :20:10.visited the area as a member of the European prominent environmental
:20:11. > :20:14.community, committee. It was heart breaking to see the sea birds that
:20:15. > :20:20.were affected by that particular oil. That is now 23 years ago. It is
:20:21. > :20:24.to the credit of the shipping industry and the skills of its
:20:25. > :20:29.seafarers that we have not had an incident of the same scale and the
:20:30. > :20:34.last 23 years. As we have heard the Gaylord Donelson conducted a
:20:35. > :20:43.extensive review of incidents. His report called save ships, cleaning
:20:44. > :20:46.seas, was published in 1994. It is easy to select quotes from his
:20:47. > :20:58.excellent report. He recommended a system to ensure togs with adequate
:20:59. > :21:04.-- tugg togs with -- they should remain at her for service. That is
:21:05. > :21:12.what happened on the coast with the exception of Scotland. The industry
:21:13. > :21:16.paid directly for college. The Lord Donaldson was equally clear that
:21:17. > :21:22.prevention should be met with potential polluters rather than the
:21:23. > :21:30.Government or the public. At as well and good, but if there are tugg
:21:31. > :21:34.boats available to do that work. But if there are no tugg boats to do
:21:35. > :21:41.that work, a responsible government would make sure that that capacity
:21:42. > :21:44.is there where the market and public sector is failing. That is happening
:21:45. > :21:49.on the West Coast of Scotland, and that is why this debate be been had,
:21:50. > :21:54.because of that there and the lack of the boats. If you would relax a
:21:55. > :21:59.little, I will come to the point I am making in this debate. Perhaps,
:22:00. > :22:06.he might find he might need not be as irate as he is. I share his
:22:07. > :22:12.concerns. Of course, the world has moved on in the 20 or so years he
:22:13. > :22:17.has made his report. Shipping safety has moved on to. We have seen
:22:18. > :22:23.introduction of new maritime safety systems, electronic charts, bridge
:22:24. > :22:31.watching systems, integrated Bridge navigation systems, automatic
:22:32. > :22:38.identification systems. Training for seafarers, improved engine systems,
:22:39. > :22:46.and international maritime codes. All of these add to the tools of
:22:47. > :22:52.safer navigation process. I am grateful for him for giving away. I
:22:53. > :22:59.agree with the points of his points of improvement. Some of the boats
:23:00. > :23:04.that ran aground... That is the point. Even with the improvements,
:23:05. > :23:08.there is still a risk to our communities from something like this
:23:09. > :23:12.happening, from the unexpected happening, from an oil tanker
:23:13. > :23:16.running aground, and it is how we get protection even with those
:23:17. > :23:20.improvements and in the shipping industry. That is absolutely valid,
:23:21. > :23:23.and I am talking about some of the other vessels around the coast which
:23:24. > :23:29.would have been able to remove because of his other factors. There
:23:30. > :23:33.is improved monitoring from the shore above from the Coast Guard and
:23:34. > :23:38.Port Authority. That is why we felt it was right in 2011 to take the
:23:39. > :23:46.decision to withdraw government funding tuggs in certain areas.
:23:47. > :23:51.Indeed, the savings there were substantial. Withdrawing the ETVs
:23:52. > :23:57.elsewhere saved the public purse approximately 32.5 million over the
:23:58. > :24:01.last spending review period. Indeed, the ETV based in Orkney was funded
:24:02. > :24:10.until the 31st of March at the cost of two to ?3 million per year. The
:24:11. > :24:14.availability of commercial tugg operations in those areas persuaded
:24:15. > :24:17.us it was no longer appropriate for the UK taxpayer to fund the
:24:18. > :24:22.provision. That decision has been borne out by the fact that
:24:23. > :24:25.commercial towers have been providing assistance where
:24:26. > :24:29.necessary. We recognise the picture is different around the Scottish
:24:30. > :24:36.coast with a lack of larger togs. One government tugg has been
:24:37. > :24:42.retained their up operating both in the north and West. The position was
:24:43. > :24:48.carefully considered, and based on the density of the shipping based in
:24:49. > :24:52.the North and West Isle region, and the availability of shelter and
:24:53. > :25:00.implement weather, and the ready availability of effective logistics
:25:01. > :25:05.support. Tanker vessels that carry the greatest weight, and predicated
:25:06. > :25:12.availability in and around the islands. That costs two to ?3
:25:13. > :25:17.million honestly. Since the retention in 2011, the towing vessel
:25:18. > :25:21.Heracles has been used to tell only four times. The toner has been asked
:25:22. > :25:26.to stand by on other occasions purely as a precautionary measure.
:25:27. > :25:30.At no time has any ship needed a commercial tow failed to secure one,
:25:31. > :25:35.nor has there been any occurrence of pollution with the ring environment
:25:36. > :25:40.because of our effective towing service. It is therefore right to
:25:41. > :25:44.consider whether it is appropriate for the UK taxpayer to fund this
:25:45. > :25:45.provision. We have not included the provision and our current spending
:25:46. > :25:56.plans. . Am grateful for the Minister to give
:25:57. > :26:00.way and he is... The argument he is making akin to the argument saying
:26:01. > :26:04.that my house was built in 1906 and it has not had a fire sense
:26:05. > :26:08.therefore I do not need fire insurance for the House. The reality
:26:09. > :26:17.is that the point that is made by the debate that the honourable
:26:18. > :26:24.gentleman is asking is that we have it in place. I think that is what
:26:25. > :26:28.the UK government are found short and very wanting. The honourable
:26:29. > :26:33.gentleman quite correctly raises the issue of risk and the right
:26:34. > :26:37.honourable gentleman talked about the MCE eight looking at all
:26:38. > :26:42.potential risks and risk assessment from the MCA was that all factors,
:26:43. > :26:49.including collision risk and traffic volumes and whether, including very
:26:50. > :27:02.severe weather which can a fact that part of the world. -- affect. The
:27:03. > :27:04.NCAA will be carrying out further refinement of the risk assessment
:27:05. > :27:09.and light of stakeholder discussions. By all means. And
:27:10. > :27:12.listening very carefully and I am grateful for the honourable
:27:13. > :27:27.gentleman to be very considerate with this time. Identifying a risk
:27:28. > :27:30.of the Braer being reviewed, the vessel cannot provide that degree of
:27:31. > :27:37.protection and a timely manner in the Wesco. We need to retain in
:27:38. > :27:42.order to give security to our communities, we need the vessel
:27:43. > :27:47.there but we desperately need the vessel and the Wesco. What is the
:27:48. > :27:53.Minister going to say if we end up with an incident, have been for bed
:27:54. > :27:56.in the future, and we could've had a Braer to give us a degree of
:27:57. > :28:04.protection because that is what we are asking the government tonight. I
:28:05. > :28:15.thank the honourable gentleman. We made a point that the vessel we have
:28:16. > :28:18.where it is... This does not mean we made a final decision over whether
:28:19. > :28:23.it should continue or not, we have not made that final decision and we
:28:24. > :28:27.as the maritime and the Coast Guard agency to speak to all interested
:28:28. > :28:36.parties on two things. Firstly, this shared view of pollution coast of
:28:37. > :28:43.Scotland. I beg to knew that this House do now adjourn. Thank you very
:28:44. > :28:47.much indeed Madam Deputy Speaker. Firstly what is the shared view of
:28:48. > :28:51.pollution off the coast of Scotland and how attention to thousand 11.
:28:52. > :28:57.And secondly what alternative arrangements are available to have a
:28:58. > :29:09.tow capability but back to reduce the board the Mac the burden on the
:29:10. > :29:12.UK tax favour. -- payer. Demonstrating the priority the
:29:13. > :29:16.government gives to this matter. I was delighted to hear that the level
:29:17. > :29:20.of engagement from stakeholders and interested parties was both positive
:29:21. > :29:23.and constructive. And terms of refining the risk assessment, there
:29:24. > :29:27.are of course many factors to take into account, including the density
:29:28. > :29:32.of shipping, variety of cargoes, size of today's ships, the scenarios
:29:33. > :29:36.in which ships may get into difficulty and available tugs
:29:37. > :29:43.salvation solution. The officials gathered a great deal of additional
:29:44. > :29:45.information out of their understanding of the current risk.
:29:46. > :29:49.The overall risk picture is similar to how it looked in 2011, when the
:29:50. > :30:00.decision to retain one government-funded tub happy by all
:30:01. > :30:04.means. Madam Deputy Speaker, so many occasions I've heard this government
:30:05. > :30:08.talking about risk and it strikes me that they are being very badly
:30:09. > :30:12.briefed because they do not seem to understand what risk means. At its
:30:13. > :30:15.very simplest, there are two components that are being
:30:16. > :30:24.misunderstood here. What is the probability of event occur in a --
:30:25. > :30:28.occurring? It could be in once every 150 years, it could be next week,
:30:29. > :30:33.and the second point is that you have to take account of what is the
:30:34. > :30:38.nature of that negative outcome? What is the chance of the negative
:30:39. > :30:41.outcome? I doubt very many people have argued it and the nature of
:30:42. > :30:47.shipping today, the types of cargo that is being moved, such as waste,
:30:48. > :30:50.the catastrophic nature of that negative outcome is greater today
:30:51. > :30:56.than it would have been 20 or 30 years ago. If you could keep it a
:30:57. > :31:01.bit shorter, we would all be very great. He cut I reassure the
:31:02. > :31:06.honourable member that this government is acutely aware of the
:31:07. > :31:13.risk and potential that could be caused by the and the response
:31:14. > :31:17.correctly put in place. The meeting on the 10th of February also started
:31:18. > :31:22.to explore whether there might be alternative ways... And another
:31:23. > :31:27.meeting with stakeholders was scheduled on the 9th of March. We
:31:28. > :31:30.might find that a longer-term solution does not rest on one
:31:31. > :31:35.particular approach but the combination of option. And I want to
:31:36. > :31:38.give the MCA time and space to work through all reasonable options with
:31:39. > :31:44.stakeholders to find a longer-term solution. That considered thought
:31:45. > :31:49.and development of expert advice cannot be achieved by a current
:31:50. > :31:53.funding ends on the 31st of March. I therefore announced that I have
:31:54. > :31:54.instructed the MCA to make immediate arrangements to extend the provision
:31:55. > :32:00.of a government-funded Braer to of a government-funded Braer to
:32:01. > :32:06.mirror the current arrangement until the 30th of September this year. And
:32:07. > :32:11.I am grateful to my right honourable friend for making this case in such
:32:12. > :32:18.a positive way. The MCA and my department will find to understand
:32:19. > :32:22.across these budgets and this is not an additional expenditure. I am
:32:23. > :32:26.grateful to the Minister and I think he is to be congratulated on this
:32:27. > :32:30.announcement because it is in fact clearly not the end of the story but
:32:31. > :32:33.it is a significant act of good faith and they very much thank him
:32:34. > :32:37.for taking this step this evening. Will he take the message from this
:32:38. > :32:41.house that came from that stakeholder engagement on the 10th
:32:42. > :32:46.of February and to see that this work has really got to be done again
:32:47. > :32:50.and it has to be done properly. The standard and the content of that
:32:51. > :32:54.risk assessment is not good enough, and he is now given us the time,
:32:55. > :33:00.will that time you used properly to do the work properly? Certainly I
:33:01. > :33:03.are ready made the point that the level of risk has not changed
:33:04. > :33:07.substantially since previous assessments have been made but I do
:33:08. > :33:10.think we need to explore other ways in which that risk may be addressed
:33:11. > :33:15.and the point was made about the availability of tugs because of the
:33:16. > :33:18.demise of the North Sea oil industry and other areas where we may be able
:33:19. > :33:23.to come up with something were cost effective. Thank you very much and I
:33:24. > :33:28.am grateful to the Minister for giving way. We welcome the
:33:29. > :33:30.announcement that the government has made this evening, that was the
:33:31. > :33:37.right thing to do. I would say to the Minister to explain to this
:33:38. > :33:42.situation as to what happened. Braer cannot make it in a reasonable
:33:43. > :33:46.amount of time. And light of the decision he has made this evening,
:33:47. > :33:50.and in light of risk assessment that much take place, will you revisit
:33:51. > :33:58.the need and desire for a second vessel to cover the West Coast based
:33:59. > :34:04.on the realistic understanding of risk as been outlined by myself and
:34:05. > :34:09.others because we cannot except that our communities should be left at
:34:10. > :34:14.risk. This is a small price to pay. We need that insurance policies.
:34:15. > :34:18.Please, I am grateful that the vessel has been kept on for the next
:34:19. > :34:22.six months, but let's make sure that we get a solution that protects all
:34:23. > :34:26.of our communities and that means the re-establishment of a two vessel
:34:27. > :34:30.solution to the north and West of Scotland. I certainly hear what he
:34:31. > :34:38.is saying and indeed the provision of the ETV and the times to get to
:34:39. > :34:42.locations is something we need to address. But I urge all those who
:34:43. > :34:47.have an interest to seize the opportunity that this extra time
:34:48. > :34:51.brings with the MCA to make a longer-term strategy to meet this
:34:52. > :34:57.need. I hope Honorable members in this house will give encouragement
:34:58. > :35:01.to that. As response to questions, this government recognises the
:35:02. > :35:02.importance of ensuring shipping activities off the coast of Scotland
:35:03. > :35:09.remain safe. I am grateful to the remain safe. I am grateful to the
:35:10. > :35:15.government's U-turn even though it is for only six months. We
:35:16. > :35:21.concentrated a lot here on the back of pollution. But only a month ago,
:35:22. > :35:28.two months ago, in fact, and Panama a cruise ship ran aground on the
:35:29. > :35:33.there are a lot of lives and peril there are a lot of lives and peril
:35:34. > :35:37.in that situation. Luckily the climate was better but if it happens
:35:38. > :35:42.on the West Coast of Scotland, it has increased traffic, weather the
:35:43. > :35:51.tug boats were the security to make sure that that would not turn into
:35:52. > :35:56.human catastrophe. We are... While the government is making the U-turn,
:35:57. > :36:01.I hope they look further south as well. I have already made it very
:36:02. > :36:04.clear that the two major consideration in terms of the marine
:36:05. > :36:10.environment, particularly from vessels carrying well, but also from
:36:11. > :36:14.the potential loss of life from vessels which cannot get assistance
:36:15. > :36:20.at a timely way. I will make a final decision over whether it is right
:36:21. > :36:25.for the UK tax player to continue in light of the MCA's advice by the end
:36:26. > :36:29.of September. I look forward to colleagues giving evidence and their
:36:30. > :36:33.views in terms of that consideration. I will of course be
:36:34. > :36:37.consulting Scottish ministers on those options before a final
:36:38. > :36:41.decision is made. As I have said previously I am happy to meet with
:36:42. > :36:47.idling councils and I look forward to travelling north now that it is
:36:48. > :36:53.getting more daylight but there to visit some of these locations to
:36:54. > :36:57.hear first-hand from people on the ground of their concern. The
:36:58. > :37:02.question is that this House do now adjourn. As many of that opinion say
:37:03. > :37:11.I've. The eyes have it. Order, order!