20/04/2016

:00:07. > :00:16.THE SPEAKER: Urgent question, Andy Burnham. To ask the Home Secretary

:00:17. > :00:24.to make a statement setting out the details of the Border Force budget

:00:25. > :00:28.for 2016-17. Home Secretary. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The first piracy of

:00:29. > :00:32.a Government is the safety and security of citizens. The Government

:00:33. > :00:37.has was "The UK border priority and we will never compromise on keeping

:00:38. > :00:41.the people of this country safe from terrorism, criminals he headed eagle

:00:42. > :00:45.immigration. The Chancellor of the Exchequer will publish the Treasury

:00:46. > :00:51.main supply estimates in just over an hour's time. That will set out

:00:52. > :00:54.allocations for the whole of Government, including Border Force,

:00:55. > :00:59.for the 2016-17 financial year. In advance of those figures, I can

:01:00. > :01:04.inform the House that these estimates will show the indicative

:01:05. > :01:10.budget for Border Force is ?558.1 million in 2016-17, a 0.4% reduction

:01:11. > :01:16.in the overall resource ending, compared to the 15-16 supplementary

:01:17. > :01:22.estimate. At the same time, increase capital spending on the border by

:01:23. > :01:30.just over a 17%, from 40.1 only in pounds in 2015-16, to an estimated

:01:31. > :01:35.?68.3 million, in 2016-17. That means Border Force painting, drawing

:01:36. > :01:38.tents and purposes, is protected, compared to 2015-16. With increased

:01:39. > :01:40.capital investment to improve the technology of the border, to improve

:01:41. > :01:46.security and intelligence and strengthen control. Over the next

:01:47. > :01:50.four years, we will invest ?130 million in Saint of the art

:01:51. > :01:56.technology of the border. Since I became Secretary, we have engaged in

:01:57. > :02:00.an ambitious programme to keep this country safe and reform the Borders.

:02:01. > :02:03.We abolish the dysfunctional UK Border Agency in the last

:02:04. > :02:06.Parliament, set up by the last Labour Government, and made Border

:02:07. > :02:10.Force directly accountable to ministers within the Home Office.

:02:11. > :02:12.Since then, Border Force has transformed its working practices,

:02:13. > :02:18.command and control and leadership and we have invested in new

:02:19. > :02:20.technology, like heartbeat monitors at freight ports. This improves

:02:21. > :02:26.security and prevent illegal entry to the UK. It benefits passengers

:02:27. > :02:29.and delivers efficiency. At the same time, effort closely with my French

:02:30. > :02:34.counterpart, Bernard Cazeneuve, to secure the juxtaposed controls in

:02:35. > :02:39.Calais and reduce the number of migrants attempting to reach the UK

:02:40. > :02:43.and safeguard drivers and hauliers travelling through those ports. We

:02:44. > :02:46.have developed a robust and intelligence led approach to

:02:47. > :02:50.organised crime at the border, working closely with the National

:02:51. > :02:53.Crime Agency we established in 2012. We have supported greater

:02:54. > :02:55.calibration between counter terrorism police and Border Force,

:02:56. > :02:59.while increasing counter terrorism budgets, to prevent foreign fighters

:03:00. > :03:04.returning and dangerous terrorists travelling to the UK. These reforms

:03:05. > :03:07.are working. Order security has been enhanced, Border Force continues to

:03:08. > :03:10.form 100% checks on scheduled passengers arriving at primary

:03:11. > :03:15.checkpoint in the UK, where passengers are deemed a threat to

:03:16. > :03:18.the safety, we can and do exclude them from the UK, and in total,

:03:19. > :03:24.99,000 people have been refused entry to the UK since 2010. We are

:03:25. > :03:28.disrupting more organised crime in the UK border than ever before. In

:03:29. > :03:33.the past year, Border Force seized nearly eight tonnes of Class A

:03:34. > :03:37.drugs, more than 2.5 times as much as in 2009-10. Meanwhile, legitimate

:03:38. > :03:40.passengers and hauliers of goods continue to be provided with

:03:41. > :03:44.excellent levels of service. The Government remains committed to

:03:45. > :03:47.making further investment were necessary, to exploit technology and

:03:48. > :03:51.strengthen controls, and in doing so, Border Force will grow more

:03:52. > :03:54.efficient, year-on-year, while improving security for the safety of

:03:55. > :04:04.citizens, businesses and the country as a whole. Andy Burnham. Finally,

:04:05. > :04:10.Mr Speaker, an answer. From the Home Secretary. And, yet another U-turn.

:04:11. > :04:15.Let's be clear, it is Labour pressure that has brought her to

:04:16. > :04:21.this House today and Labour pressure that has made her back down on her

:04:22. > :04:26.planned deeper cuts to the UK border. Just as they forced her to

:04:27. > :04:30.U-turn on police funding, we have now forced her to U-turn on the

:04:31. > :04:33.Border Force budget. She has spent the last two weeks ducking and

:04:34. > :04:40.diving, refusing to answer questions that I put her in this House and on

:04:41. > :04:47.the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee, put to her by senior

:04:48. > :04:50.officials. I pay tribute to his determination. Why cannot she answer

:04:51. > :04:55.our questions? She has been furiously backpedalling for the last

:04:56. > :04:58.two weeks, patching up holes in the budget. Let's be clear, about what

:04:59. > :05:03.has just been announced. She has just announced it has, a cut, a

:05:04. > :05:09.renewed cut to the Border Force budget. And let me put it into

:05:10. > :05:16.context, she has announced the budget of ?558 million, in 2012-13,

:05:17. > :05:21.the budget was ?617 million. So, the budget is done by over ?50 million,

:05:22. > :05:24.on her watch. That is this Home Secretary's record on border

:05:25. > :05:29.funding. How can she justify at? When the terror threat has been

:05:30. > :05:33.increasing all the time? Will she guarantee, on the back of the budget

:05:34. > :05:37.announced today, that there will be no cuts to front-line immigration

:05:38. > :05:40.officers, nor will they be replaced with less trained staff? But the

:05:41. > :05:45.bigger question is, whether the budget she has announced is anywhere

:05:46. > :05:48.near enough? Today, a group of the most eminent police and

:05:49. > :05:52.counterterrorism experts have written an open letter, saying

:05:53. > :05:57.attacks in Paris and Brussels must be a wake-up call for the British

:05:58. > :06:01.Government on lax border security. Worryingly, the letter reveals that

:06:02. > :06:05.the National Crime Agency has evidenced that people traffickers

:06:06. > :06:08.are now specifically targeting weaker seaports, as I have

:06:09. > :06:12.repeatedly warned her. Though she accept the call from this group of

:06:13. > :06:16.experts for a review of border security and for extra resources to

:06:17. > :06:20.plug the gaps? Those gaps are very real, a whistle-blower working at

:06:21. > :06:24.the port of Immingham, the country but my largest breadboard, has been

:06:25. > :06:26.in touch with me to reveal that the staff of ferry companies carrying

:06:27. > :06:31.out her border exit checks are simply not trained to do it, the

:06:32. > :06:39.passports of lorry drivers are not checked on arrival by anyone and

:06:40. > :06:41.worst of all, school leavers are now being recruited to check passports,

:06:42. > :06:45.replacing experienced border officers. Border security on the

:06:46. > :06:49.cheap. This is the reality of what is happening in Britain's Borders

:06:50. > :06:52.today under this Home Secretary. It is the direct consequence of cuts

:06:53. > :06:57.that she has already made to the UK border in her time in office and

:06:58. > :07:02.unbelievably, she wanted to make even further cuts to the UK border,

:07:03. > :07:05.before we, on the side of the House, stopped her. She has spent the last

:07:06. > :07:10.two weeks running scared, scrabbling for loose change behind the back of

:07:11. > :07:15.the Home Office over, but worse, she has weakened our borders. Damaged

:07:16. > :07:18.security and has only now pledged to stop the cuts. On an issue of such

:07:19. > :07:25.importance to the British public, she is going to have to do a lot

:07:26. > :07:28.better than this. Home Secretary. Well, I have to say to the right

:07:29. > :07:31.honourable gentleman, that in so much of what he is said, he said he

:07:32. > :07:36.does not know what he is talking about. He talks about U-turns on

:07:37. > :07:41.funding. The only U-turn on funding we have seen is Labour front bench

:07:42. > :07:44.that claims now to have wanted police funding to remain steady and

:07:45. > :07:49.not be cut, when they were actually suggesting that police funding would

:07:50. > :07:54.take 10% cuts. He has talked about border security and the National

:07:55. > :07:59.Crime Agency. I might comment him that it was the last Government, the

:08:00. > :08:03.Coalition Government and me as Home Secretary, who set up the National

:08:04. > :08:07.Crime Agency. The reason we have a border command that is looking at

:08:08. > :08:09.serious and organised crime across our borders is because of what the

:08:10. > :08:11.Conservatives have done in Government. Labour did none of that

:08:12. > :08:24.in 13 long years. The old gentleman was at one time a

:08:25. > :08:38.Home Office minister. -- honourable gentleman. It was under the last

:08:39. > :08:42.Labour government that the border had no operating mandate. People

:08:43. > :08:49.came through the primary checkpoints and were not getting the what --

:08:50. > :08:54.100% checks the need. We have enhanced security and will continue

:08:55. > :09:04.to do so. My constituents in Kettering are very concerned about

:09:05. > :09:10.our borders. Whilst it is true that many illegal immigrants are stopped

:09:11. > :09:13.in lorries in France and on arrival in Britain, far too many illegal

:09:14. > :09:21.immigrants are still on the backs of lorries when they pass Kettering.

:09:22. > :09:27.What more can the Home Secretary do to reassure my constituents were

:09:28. > :09:33.going to get even tougher to stop illegal immigration which also has a

:09:34. > :09:37.security implication? He is right. It is important we continually

:09:38. > :09:42.review the processes we have in place to screen people as they come

:09:43. > :09:45.across-the-board and to ensure we are stopping the people who want to

:09:46. > :09:54.come here as illegal immigrants. That is why we have invested tens of

:09:55. > :09:59.millions of pounds in security at Calais to ensure it is harder for

:10:00. > :10:03.people to get into lorries and harder to access the Eurotunnel. It

:10:04. > :10:06.is why we are continuing to look at improvements in technology that may

:10:07. > :10:11.enable us to bring into place equipment which is better at

:10:12. > :10:16.detecting for people are trying to store away in the sorts of vehicles.

:10:17. > :10:23.This is not something you do as a one-off. You need to keep rowing

:10:24. > :10:33.that. This has been a sorry saiga and it is still not quite clear why

:10:34. > :10:39.the civil servant was so evasive before the committee. What was the

:10:40. > :10:45.hold-up? This requires careful scrutiny and attracts public

:10:46. > :10:49.interest. What will she do to ensure the process is more transparent?

:10:50. > :10:55.Fantasy net migration target and cuts to the budget leave the Home

:10:56. > :11:00.Office down the path of targeting exactly the wrong people, using the

:11:01. > :11:04.wrong policy leaders. Unable to properly enforce existing rules, the

:11:05. > :11:10.Office is introducing evermore Draconian rules to clamp down on

:11:11. > :11:27.skilled workers, students and spices. My colleagues saw with my

:11:28. > :11:34.own eyes how vulnerable children who have family in the UK are left in

:11:35. > :11:39.terrible conditions in Dunkirk. When will she fixed her Budget not to

:11:40. > :12:02.suit the ideological percent of budgets? She has mixed up

:12:03. > :12:07.the issues of border checks and emigration which are different

:12:08. > :12:12.issues. I would remind her she comments on the appearance of a

:12:13. > :12:27.senior civil servant in front of the select committee. The individual

:12:28. > :12:32.replied we know what force -- what the force needs for the year. She

:12:33. > :12:36.referred to the question she has raised previously and other members

:12:37. > :12:41.of the size of raised about the speed at which those people who are

:12:42. > :12:44.in Calais, children have family members in the UK being processed.

:12:45. > :12:48.We recognise it was an issue and that is why we have succumbed it

:12:49. > :12:52.someone to the Ministry of the Interior in Paris to work on this.

:12:53. > :12:58.It is why there are seen people being processed in weeks rather than

:12:59. > :13:08.months, and in some cases in days. That there's nothing worse in the

:13:09. > :13:14.bash this House than the manufacture of rate.

:13:15. > :13:20.It is not through lack of thoroughness that any drugs or

:13:21. > :13:25.people are getting through. Will she acknowledged the need to be more

:13:26. > :13:30.flexible as increasing cases of independent vessels come across the

:13:31. > :13:37.Channel to Sussex and Kent in particular? We must be mindful of

:13:38. > :13:47.that. Thank him for his remarks. I echo the comments he has made.

:13:48. > :13:56.Border force staff work day in and day out. As we make ports like

:13:57. > :14:00.Calais more secure, the Immigration Minister has been talking to our

:14:01. > :14:06.Belgian and Dutch counterpart about access from those ports into the UK.

:14:07. > :14:14.The whole point of some of the changes we have made is to make it

:14:15. > :14:20.more flexible so it can respond to the need as it arises. Can I thank

:14:21. > :14:27.the Home Secretary for the detail she has provided today? Can I praise

:14:28. > :14:32.the work of the border force, especially the leadership provided

:14:33. > :14:34.by Sir Charles Montgomery. Last week, the honourable member for

:14:35. > :14:42.Gainsborough and today the Member for Kettering made comments. Can she

:14:43. > :14:47.confirmed there are 100% checks on every lorry entering this country?

:14:48. > :14:51.In order to deal with security and immigration issues. Although we have

:14:52. > :14:59.spent a huge amount of money in Calais, we have displaced this

:15:00. > :15:03.problem into other European ports. Without partners doing their bit, we

:15:04. > :15:09.will still get people coming into this country who should not be here.

:15:10. > :15:15.The right honourable gentleman referred to questions from the

:15:16. > :15:19.sustenance but also from the Member for Gainsborough. The point I have

:15:20. > :15:25.made subsequently outside of this chamber is that we undertake checks

:15:26. > :15:34.on lorries, but those checks vary. Front technology is used and

:15:35. > :15:44.sometimes dogs. The right honourable gentleman is right. As I have

:15:45. > :15:48.indicated in my response previously. It is necessary for us to be looking

:15:49. > :15:52.at where there may be displacement of people trying to enter the UK

:15:53. > :15:58.illegally. That is what we have been doing with the government in Belgium

:15:59. > :16:04.and the Netherlands. Has my right honourable friend been able to

:16:05. > :16:11.reinstate the cuts which were made in January this year by border force

:16:12. > :16:15.to the maritime aerial surveillance capability? Which is crucial in

:16:16. > :16:19.detecting people who are trying to smuggle into our country, and indeed

:16:20. > :16:26.was instrumental in ensuring some of the successes to which she referred

:16:27. > :16:29.earlier? I can reassure him that we are maintaining the capabilities he

:16:30. > :16:35.talks about, but we happened to be delivering them in a different way.

:16:36. > :16:39.He and I have discussed this previously. Was a particular

:16:40. > :16:47.contract that is no longer in place. Border force has looked to see how

:16:48. > :16:54.it can work in a variety of ways, including working with the Royal

:16:55. > :17:07.navy. Last year an asylum seeker was located in my constituency. He

:17:08. > :17:16.subsequently committed crimes and is imprisoned. My constituents have the

:17:17. > :17:23.burden of taking 500 asylum seekers. What moves is she making to ensure

:17:24. > :17:31.there is a fairer distribution across the UK? I believe there are

:17:32. > :17:39.none in the Prime Minister's constituency and none in the

:17:40. > :17:43.Chancellor's constituency. 509. My constituency is not somewhere that

:17:44. > :17:52.normally takes asylum seekers. I am pleased to say they are taking some

:17:53. > :17:55.of the Syrian refugees. We talk regularly with local authorities

:17:56. > :18:00.about where it is appropriate for asylum seekers to be dispersed to.

:18:01. > :18:04.Those commerce stations continue. A number of new local authorities have

:18:05. > :18:12.come on board. We have not changed the system of a silent dispersal. It

:18:13. > :18:19.is the same that is run by the last Labour government. Millions of

:18:20. > :18:23.pounds could be saved for the border force budget by having a more

:18:24. > :18:27.efficient removal system. What steps will my right honourable friend be

:18:28. > :18:32.taking in light of the findings of the independent Chief inspector of

:18:33. > :18:37.Borders in immigration contained in his report issued last month? We of

:18:38. > :18:41.course continually look at how we can improve our ability to remove

:18:42. > :18:46.people from this country. That is why we have brought forward changes

:18:47. > :18:51.in a variety of Immigration Bill is to enhance our ability to remove

:18:52. > :18:55.people and particularly to make it harder for people to live here

:18:56. > :19:01.illegally in the United Kingdom. Decisions that were put through in

:19:02. > :19:06.the last Immigration Bill put through to deal with people in terms

:19:07. > :19:15.of their access to driver licensees, bank accounts and rented property

:19:16. > :19:19.are all having an impact. How many more staff could be deployed to

:19:20. > :19:25.police our borders of the government were to scrap the landlords helpline

:19:26. > :19:30.and use that resource instead to more securely police our borders? I

:19:31. > :19:39.have to say to the right to rumble gentleman that if what he wants us

:19:40. > :19:44.to have the security of this country improved, the measures we have put

:19:45. > :19:50.in place through the immigration act are having an impact. Would she

:19:51. > :19:56.agree that the reality is the UK has the strongest borders in Europe

:19:57. > :20:02.partly because of the government's investment in technology in our

:20:03. > :20:07.borders, and partly because of this party's from position we should not

:20:08. > :20:17.join the Schengen system? I think at is crucial. By not joining the

:20:18. > :20:27.Schengen system, we maintain control at our borders. People working in my

:20:28. > :20:32.constituency are concerned about security regarding large transporter

:20:33. > :20:40.ships. There have been humanitarian concerns. Can she is sure my

:20:41. > :20:46.constituents that the port in Grimsby is adequately protected? We

:20:47. > :20:55.look at border security at ports on a regular basis. She refers to the

:20:56. > :21:01.humanitarian issue in relation to people who may be being smuggled

:21:02. > :21:06.across-the-board in transporters. The people responsible for that

:21:07. > :21:09.shamanic healing issue are the traffickers who put illegal

:21:10. > :21:17.immigrants into those containers. There was praise for my right

:21:18. > :21:26.honourable friend. She was accused of both backpedalling and performing

:21:27. > :21:34.a U-turn. Could I ask my right honourable friend what role she sees

:21:35. > :21:43.the investigation powers bill currently before the house in

:21:44. > :21:57.strengthening the work of border force? It is important that we are

:21:58. > :22:01.able to access the various tools and power is needed. That is why the

:22:02. > :22:09.investigatory Powers Bill is so important. I note that in the letter

:22:10. > :22:16.to Peter Graff today, the Shadow Home Secretary mentioned the

:22:17. > :22:23.importance of access to communications data. That is what we

:22:24. > :22:28.are trying to protect in the Bill. It took almost 25 minutes to get

:22:29. > :22:35.through the border at Gatwick Airport. There were 15 desks for

:22:36. > :22:41.staff and all me eight people working. What kind of message does

:22:42. > :22:48.it send about the welcome to the United Kingdom and how will this

:22:49. > :22:55.budget help to remedy those kind of inefficiencies?

:22:56. > :23:03.There are enforced standards and we meet those standards. I also say to

:23:04. > :23:08.him, it is very interesting that the debate we are having today, people

:23:09. > :23:12.are asking for more port security and then others are saying they want

:23:13. > :23:21.to get through rather more quickly. The honourable gentleman always

:23:22. > :23:26.looks to be a happy chappie. The Shadow Home Secretary is right to

:23:27. > :23:30.draw attention to the port of Immingham, in my constituency.

:23:31. > :23:35.Border staff there have concerns. The concerns of residents have been

:23:36. > :23:43.heightened following reports that the National Crime Agency

:23:44. > :23:49.acknowledged that ports are being targeted. Can we receive assurances

:23:50. > :23:58.that there are moves to protect the Humber ports? The point of my

:23:59. > :24:03.honourable friend makes is important. I have responded to this

:24:04. > :24:06.in a number of questions, including to the right honourable gentleman,

:24:07. > :24:12.the chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee. We have made

:24:13. > :24:17.changes to Border Force, and one of those changes was to introduce

:24:18. > :24:22.greater flexibility, to be able to move resources around the country.

:24:23. > :24:27.This is crucial, so you don't just have static forces at a number of

:24:28. > :24:30.ports. But you are able to move when you see the need to do so. That is

:24:31. > :24:36.exactly what we're doing in relation to the ports on the east coast, one

:24:37. > :24:41.of which he cited. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK with a

:24:42. > :24:45.land border with another country. Both the UK and the republic lie

:24:46. > :24:50.outside showing and, therefore corporation is key. Last week, a

:24:51. > :24:55.representative said they felt they are hopelessly ill-equipped and will

:24:56. > :24:59.resort to stand against the threat of terrorists entering the UK

:25:00. > :25:05.through Irish borders. Can the Home Secretary give any comfort, as to

:25:06. > :25:12.whether this budget will help make that vulnerable access point to the

:25:13. > :25:14.UK less so? I can reassure the honourable gentleman that we are in

:25:15. > :25:20.regular discussion with the Irish Government about how to improve the

:25:21. > :25:23.security of their external border, because, obviously, as he refers to,

:25:24. > :25:27.there is a common travel area between Ireland and the UK. We have

:25:28. > :25:31.done a lot of work with the Irish Government in terms of data sharing

:25:32. > :25:35.and the sort of systems that might be available for support. We

:25:36. > :25:42.continue to do so. In contrast to earlier comments, I would like to

:25:43. > :25:48.pay tribute to the hard work and dedication of Border Force officers

:25:49. > :25:52.at Gatwick. Particularly in terms of apprehending some recent terror

:25:53. > :25:55.suspects. Can I get assurances that they will continue to get the

:25:56. > :26:04.support they need from the Home Office? I can give that assurance.

:26:05. > :26:07.We now have a Border Force that is more flexible and able to use its

:26:08. > :26:13.resources appropriately and we continue to do so. We are looking to

:26:14. > :26:19.make sure resources are appropriate at the various ports, commensurate

:26:20. > :26:25.with the traffic those ports received. He rightly praises the

:26:26. > :26:31.Border Force officers at Gatwick, who do a great job, as do officers

:26:32. > :26:38.elsewhere. When will she make a statement on allegations that under

:26:39. > :26:46.her watch, terrorists where allowed to preach this country's border

:26:47. > :26:49.security? I would say that of course, in terms of border security

:26:50. > :26:53.and stopping people crossing the border, what is important is not

:26:54. > :27:00.just that you have a border control, as we do, by not being a member of

:27:01. > :27:04.the Schengen border free zone, but also that the information is

:27:05. > :27:09.exchanged between parties when that information is available. That is

:27:10. > :27:12.exactly what we are working on, to ensure information is available at

:27:13. > :27:18.our borders when we want to be able to stop people. I don't think she

:27:19. > :27:24.has yet fully answered the question put to her by the chair of the Home

:27:25. > :27:31.Affairs Select Committee, regarding checks on trucks. I accept the issue

:27:32. > :27:37.of flexibility, different things in different places. But there is

:27:38. > :27:41.genuine concern in up and down the country about levels of security.

:27:42. > :27:47.How does the cumulative cuts in the revenue budget of the Border Force,

:27:48. > :27:52.how a compatible with providing the level of security necessary? On the

:27:53. > :27:59.last point, I have to say to the Labour Party, it is not about how

:28:00. > :28:05.much money you have, but about how you spend it and that you use it

:28:06. > :28:09.effectively and efficiently. The introduction of an operating

:28:10. > :28:14.mandate, so that at primary checkpoints, that are 100% checks

:28:15. > :28:17.being undertaken of individuals, that is something the Government

:28:18. > :28:23.introduced that the last Labour Government did not introduce. All

:28:24. > :28:30.the trucks going through juxtaposed controls are indeed screamed. Over

:28:31. > :28:33.Easter, a number of my constituents were frustrated at Manchester

:28:34. > :28:40.Airport, where they were queueing to go through passport control because

:28:41. > :28:42.that passport control was significantly under resourced. What

:28:43. > :28:49.reassuring scanned the Home Secretary give that Manchester

:28:50. > :28:52.Airport, which is, after all, the largest International Airport

:28:53. > :28:58.outside of London, we have adequate resource at passport control. Can

:28:59. > :29:01.she also looked at the loophole at terminal three, whereby passengers

:29:02. > :29:07.who transit from Heathrow and have their baggage sent directly through

:29:08. > :29:15.to Manchester don't actually have to go through a customs check? The

:29:16. > :29:19.honourable gentleman has asked me about resources for Manchester

:29:20. > :29:21.Airport. I can assure him that we regularly have discussions with

:29:22. > :29:27.Manchester Airport about the traffic going through, about the

:29:28. > :29:31.requirements they have, and judge the resources that are put for

:29:32. > :29:42.Border Force appropriately. We fully recognise the significance of

:29:43. > :29:46.Manchester Airport. A recent watchdog study into Border Force at

:29:47. > :29:51.Manchester Airport showed that one in four passengers got through the

:29:52. > :29:56.border inappropriately. A whole Ryanair flight was recently missed,

:29:57. > :30:03.with a passengers, who suffered no checks whatsoever. ?1.5 million was

:30:04. > :30:06.spent on sniffer dogs. Now terrorists or Class A drugs have

:30:07. > :30:11.been discovered. And we suffer in terminable delays for business

:30:12. > :30:14.passengers and terrorists. The airport is suffering because of a

:30:15. > :30:17.lack of investment in Border Force. You may have protected the budget

:30:18. > :30:21.but it is not making any improvement whatsoever in a very poor existing

:30:22. > :30:30.service. What does the Home Secretary said? As Manchester

:30:31. > :30:36.Airport expands, we discuss with them what resources are necessary.

:30:37. > :30:41.He referred to a misdirected flight, that is an issue we had taken up

:30:42. > :30:45.with Manchester Airport, in terms of the staff they have on the ground,

:30:46. > :30:56.in relation to the way they deal with flights. We take that

:30:57. > :30:59.seriously. I echo commendations made by others towards the excellent work

:31:00. > :31:08.done by border staff but numbers are also important. Order. A rather

:31:09. > :31:10.unseemly exchange going on between the honourable gentleman who put

:31:11. > :31:16.forward a question and was dissatisfied with the answer and the

:31:17. > :31:19.honourable member for Northampton North, who always feels compelled to

:31:20. > :31:26.display a level of fealty unsurpassed by any other member of

:31:27. > :31:32.the House of Commons. That is not necessary. We all know the fealty,

:31:33. > :31:39.bordering upon the obsequious edges on display from the honourable

:31:40. > :31:50.gentleman. But this must not be allowed to interrupt the flow of

:31:51. > :31:57.other members. The opposition, the right honourable member opposite,

:31:58. > :32:02.received a report saying that 30,000 Border Force was the right number in

:32:03. > :32:07.order to protect our borders. Is that still the policy of the

:32:08. > :32:13.Government? Can the Home Secretary tell us how many border staff there

:32:14. > :32:16.are currently? The report he refers to proposed the creation of an

:32:17. > :32:21.entirely new police force at the borders. When we look to what was

:32:22. > :32:25.necessary, we decided to approach the issue in a different way, and we

:32:26. > :32:29.created the National Crime Agency and a specific border command within

:32:30. > :32:33.the National Crime Agency. Staff operating at borders are not just

:32:34. > :32:38.Border Force, but border command from National Crime Agency, special

:32:39. > :32:42.Branch at ports and of course, they work with immigration enforcement.

:32:43. > :32:46.So, we have for the first time in this country, a specific border

:32:47. > :32:56.command within the National Crime Agency. Order. Presentation of Bill,

:32:57. > :33:06.Mr Frank Field. I2-mac property ownership in London, registration.

:33:07. > :33:16.We now come to the ten minute rule motion. I beg to move the leave to

:33:17. > :33:22.be given the right to bring in the bill regarding forensic linguistics

:33:23. > :33:26.analysis and accepted techniques and for connected purposes. Our children

:33:27. > :33:31.and young people face an enormous threat from being groomed by radical

:33:32. > :33:37.extremists and paedophiles. It is facilitated by the internet, social

:33:38. > :33:42.media and mobile technology. This bill is about the protection of

:33:43. > :33:46.vulnerable people. It is about the monitoring and analysing of

:33:47. > :33:51.communications between people we need to be concerned about. People

:33:52. > :33:55.who plot and scheme to do harm to others. People such as paedophiles

:33:56. > :34:01.and extremists. People who use modern technology as a tool in their

:34:02. > :34:06.evil business. Mr Speaker, last October, I led a Westminster debate

:34:07. > :34:10.on the use of children as suicide bombers. We know that many of the

:34:11. > :34:16.techniques used in recruiting children are the same as those used

:34:17. > :34:20.by paedophiles. We also know that there is software available that

:34:21. > :34:26.will identify the messages and language of groomers and using a

:34:27. > :34:31.variety of tools, we can match these to voice language patterns of known

:34:32. > :34:34.individuals. Forensic linguistics is a complicated field. It is

:34:35. > :34:43.relatively new and linguistic evidence can include signs, social

:34:44. > :34:47.science and interpretation. Forensic linguistic analysis requires a

:34:48. > :34:53.complex set of knowledge and skills. Presently, however, anyone,

:34:54. > :34:59.including you or I, Mr Speaker, can proclaim themselves to be an expert

:35:00. > :35:02.in forensic linguistics. Subsequently, there is a

:35:03. > :35:08.considerable danger that in a court of law, substandard analysis can be

:35:09. > :35:12.offered. What we need is a standardised qualification for the

:35:13. > :35:16.analysts and a standardised set of techniques that will give the courts

:35:17. > :35:23.me confidence to accept evidence as more than just interesting

:35:24. > :35:29.background. This bill does not call for sophisticated legislation. It

:35:30. > :35:34.would be relatively straightforward for a statutory register to be

:35:35. > :35:39.compiled. The register this bill calls for would not need it own

:35:40. > :35:46.regulator. One already exists. The forensic science regulator. This is

:35:47. > :35:53.already working to include speech and audio analysis as a recognised

:35:54. > :35:59.speciality area. But as textual linguistic analysis draws an

:36:00. > :36:03.interpretive as well as scientific methods, this falls outside the

:36:04. > :36:07.current agreement. I also draw attention to current codes of

:36:08. > :36:11.practice and conduct for forensic science providers and practitioners,

:36:12. > :36:16.and more generally for expert witnesses in the criminal justice

:36:17. > :36:23.system, which could be adapted to include the practice of forensic

:36:24. > :36:30.linguistics. There are academic institutions with authority in this

:36:31. > :36:34.area, such as the Centre for forensic linguistics at Aston

:36:35. > :36:39.University. At this point, I would like to personally thank the

:36:40. > :36:43.director of this centre, Professor Tim Wright, for his help in

:36:44. > :36:47.developing this bill. I am also grateful for encouragement from the

:36:48. > :36:52.president of the chartered Society of Forensic Science Service and the

:36:53. > :36:57.director of forensic services in Scotland, Mr Tom Nelson. The

:36:58. > :37:07.standard of specialist witnesses and indeed forensic scientists

:37:08. > :37:11.themselves is inherently... I know of people who: sells forensic side

:37:12. > :37:15.but who cannot tell them difference between the interpreting Aust

:37:16. > :37:20.Pacific a thickness of a test, let alone can't delete a value. I have

:37:21. > :37:26.or dimension and that speech and audio analysis and textual analysis

:37:27. > :37:30.are two different things. The problem for textual forensic

:37:31. > :37:35.linguistics is that many aspects of the work, determination of meanings

:37:36. > :37:38.and messages, profiling the background of a writer, etc, are a

:37:39. > :37:44.long way from the laboratory waste paradigms. The closest we get to

:37:45. > :37:47.laboratory based science is in comparative authorship analysis

:37:48. > :38:11.work. Cover this work. There is no way for

:38:12. > :38:23.high-quality petitioners to be avoided.

:38:24. > :38:36.This could look like a register for individuals, methods or both. The

:38:37. > :38:43.obvious person to hold it would be the regulator for Forensic Science

:38:44. > :38:48.Service to where is the proof that forensic linguistic analysis can

:38:49. > :38:56.work? In those cases, where forensics linguistic evidence has

:38:57. > :39:00.been allowed in court, it has proved particularly valuable. For example,

:39:01. > :39:05.it was used in the appeals of Derek Bentley and the Birmingham six. In

:39:06. > :39:11.many cases across the UK, it has been used to determine authorship of

:39:12. > :39:16.SMS text messages in murder cases. It has been used to extract the

:39:17. > :39:20.meaning of coded texts and slang terms used in internet cat rooms,

:39:21. > :39:26.often involving conspiracies to murder and child sex abuse

:39:27. > :39:31.conversations. Good forensic linguistic evidence has withstood

:39:32. > :39:36.appeal. Yet there is the potential to undermine this excellent work

:39:37. > :39:43.through substandard analysis by Purley and unqualified

:39:44. > :39:50.practitioners. Of all it has strong roots in the UK, there is evidence

:39:51. > :39:55.of textual evidence growing internationally. Examples include

:39:56. > :39:59.Australia in successful appeals against murder convictions and in

:40:00. > :40:06.South Africa in cases of disputed wills. In 1996 in the United States,

:40:07. > :40:15.textual forensic linguistic analysis was used to identify the writer of a

:40:16. > :40:23.manifesto as Ted kitchen ski who was convicted of running a bombing

:40:24. > :40:31.campaign across the country. In the UK, it has been used regarding

:40:32. > :40:39.serious counter-terrorism charges. In 2004, an individual was arrested

:40:40. > :40:46.and charged on the basis of linguistic evidence linking him to a

:40:47. > :40:53.conspiracy document. He later admitted to potting to bomb the New

:40:54. > :40:59.York Stock Exchange, the IMF headquarters and the World Bank

:41:00. > :41:06.amongst other targets. The UK Forensic Science Service role was

:41:07. > :41:09.created in 2007 by the honourable member for Hackney South and

:41:10. > :41:17.Shoreditch. It is good to see some progress has been made. But on this

:41:18. > :41:20.issue it is time to put the regulator to work. Mr Speaker, this

:41:21. > :41:28.bill will enable the statutory agencies to use information and

:41:29. > :41:34.evidence as they gather through the medium of forensic evidence to

:41:35. > :41:39.protect more children from predatory adults and protect the British

:41:40. > :41:45.public from the likelihood of events like those seen recently in

:41:46. > :41:51.Brussels, Paris, Kabul and Pakistan. I commend it to the House. The

:41:52. > :41:59.question is that the honourable member have leave to bring in the

:42:00. > :42:05.Bill? As many who are of that opinion say I? The contrary now? The

:42:06. > :42:10.ayes have it. Who will prepare and bring in the Bill? Michelle Thomson,

:42:11. > :42:44.Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg and myself. Very smart. Stylish. Forensic

:42:45. > :43:03.linguistics standards Bill. White May six may. We come to the main

:43:04. > :43:20.business. The question is as on the order paper. The ayes have it. The

:43:21. > :43:31.clerk will now read the order of business for the day. I must draw

:43:32. > :43:35.the attention of the House that financial privilege is engaged by

:43:36. > :43:40.Lords amendment to a. If the House agrees it, I will cause an

:43:41. > :43:47.appropriate entry to be made in the journal. The first Amendment to be

:43:48. > :44:09.taken as Lords amendment seven A with which we will consider seven B

:44:10. > :44:15.on words. Lords amendment six and eight, as well as to. To move to

:44:16. > :44:26.agree with Lords amendment seven, I call the Minister, the Minister

:44:27. > :44:30.being Andrea led seven. Thank you. To deliver on its manifesto

:44:31. > :44:33.commitment, the government remains determined to bring forward the

:44:34. > :44:38.closure of the renewables obligation to new onshore wind in Great

:44:39. > :44:42.Britain. This is a commitment based on plans which were signalled well

:44:43. > :44:45.before the general election last year and which should not have come

:44:46. > :44:54.as a surprise to honourable members ought to industry. Back in March

:44:55. > :44:58.2015, the honourable member for Suffolk stated in this House that we

:44:59. > :45:06.have made it absolutely clear that we will remove onshore wind

:45:07. > :45:10.subsidies in the future. Prior to that comment 2014, the Prime

:45:11. > :45:13.Minister stated in a House of Commons Liaison Committee that we

:45:14. > :45:17.don't need more of these subsidised onshore wind farms so let's get rid

:45:18. > :45:22.of the subsidy. We're been absolutely clear long the

:45:23. > :45:24.government's policies to bring forward the closure of the

:45:25. > :45:30.renewables obligation to new onshore wind. To protect investor

:45:31. > :45:34.confidence, the government has proposed a grace period for those

:45:35. > :45:46.projects meeting certain conditions, as at 18 June last year. The grace

:45:47. > :45:53.period provisions intended to detect projects which already had relevant

:45:54. > :45:59.planning consents, a grid connection offer an acceptance of that offer or

:46:00. > :46:08.confirmation that no grid connection is required, and also access to land

:46:09. > :46:17.rights. I will give way. In the list of pre-warnings she set out, my

:46:18. > :46:22.recollection tells me that the proposals were contained within our

:46:23. > :46:31.manifesto and that commanded the support of the British people. Does

:46:32. > :46:40.she agree with me that this is the other place being on thin ice again?

:46:41. > :46:47.He is exactly right. This is a manifesto commitment and in the

:46:48. > :46:51.other house peers should listen to the manifesto commitment of this

:46:52. > :46:54.government and should respect it, as is normally the practice as I

:46:55. > :47:02.understand it. The government has also taken action regarding a key

:47:03. > :47:06.concern raised by industry about an investment freeze. The clauses are

:47:07. > :47:13.there to ensure projects that meet the court grace period and were

:47:14. > :47:18.intended to access the period as proposed are not frozen out of the

:47:19. > :47:24.process. Government continues to receive representations from

:47:25. > :47:27.industry suggesting they welcome the proposals to address the investment

:47:28. > :47:33.freeze. The government has put in place a provision to insure an

:47:34. > :47:38.existing grace period caused by delays to grade or radar works will

:47:39. > :47:44.continue to apply. We need to get on and complete this Bill. As the

:47:45. > :47:48.honourable member for Coatbridge said committee stage, we agree

:47:49. > :47:56.speaking for the that Swift passage of the bill with these provisions is

:47:57. > :48:01.needed, in order to provide certainty to investors in this

:48:02. > :48:10.industry as quickly as possible. The renewables industry fears that the

:48:11. > :48:12.longer the period of in certainty continues, the greater there is

:48:13. > :48:37.further to be running out of time. And any additional capacity added to

:48:38. > :48:42.existing wind stations after the onshore wind closure date. This is a

:48:43. > :48:49.backstop however and would only be used if Northern Ireland does not

:48:50. > :48:57.close their are all to new onshore wind. Since our last debate, I am

:48:58. > :49:05.pleased that the RO in Northern Ireland has now closed. The Northern

:49:06. > :49:12.Ireland Executive are currently consulting on closing two stations

:49:13. > :49:21.of five megawatts and below. I am grateful to the Minister. I was

:49:22. > :49:24.about to ask about the response from the Northern Ireland Executive.

:49:25. > :49:32.There are of course elections coming up. With the Minister confirm that

:49:33. > :49:39.is almost too late for the Northern Ireland Executive at the present

:49:40. > :49:43.time? The Minister wants it to be completed, but we will not have a

:49:44. > :49:48.running the executive in Northern Ireland until at least a fortnight

:49:49. > :49:52.after the elections. I cannot agree that we are rushing this bill

:49:53. > :49:58.through in any way. Has been an enormous amount of time for

:49:59. > :50:04.consultation and discussion. The executive are consulting closing two

:50:05. > :50:16.stations of five megawatts and below. Since our last debate on this

:50:17. > :50:21.policy in this House, government has introduced two further small changes

:50:22. > :50:26.to the Bill. These will provide for the early closure of the RO to new

:50:27. > :50:34.onshore wind in Great Britain and the backstop power relating to

:50:35. > :50:42.Northern Ireland to come into force on the date of Royal assent of this

:50:43. > :50:50.Bill. The amendments listed are those which are just the early

:50:51. > :50:58.closure date. These changes are made in VS places throughout clauses of

:50:59. > :51:01.the Bill and to the grid and radar condition and the investment freeze

:51:02. > :51:07.condition. I was very clear in our last debate on this issue, as was

:51:08. > :51:11.the Parliamentary undersecretary of state in the other place, the

:51:12. > :51:19.government does not intend to backdate these provisions. Before I

:51:20. > :51:23.speak to other amendments and the government's intention to disagree,

:51:24. > :51:35.let me again see the government remains committed to our manifesto

:51:36. > :51:42.pledge for ending these subsidies for new onshore wind. The government

:51:43. > :51:49.does not agree that it is appropriate to include the provision

:51:50. > :51:59.in the Lord's provision. The government wants this part of the

:52:00. > :52:08.bill retirement to the House as it was before it left for the other

:52:09. > :52:13.place. This would include projects which would have had an indication

:52:14. > :52:20.from a local planning authority that they would receive planning consent,

:52:21. > :52:24.subject to section 106 being entered into. It would include projects

:52:25. > :52:31.where the local planning committee was minded to approve a planning

:52:32. > :52:35.application before 18 June 2015, but where planning permission was not

:52:36. > :52:41.actually issued until after this date. To be clear, these projects

:52:42. > :52:46.did not have planning permission as at 18 June last year, and therefore

:52:47. > :52:46.they do not meet the grace period criteria as proposed by the

:52:47. > :52:55.government. The 18th of June was set out as a

:52:56. > :52:58.clear line and we have continued to maintain the importance of this as a

:52:59. > :53:04.clear cut off and statement of intent to industry. To tamper with

:53:05. > :53:07.such an integral part of the early closure policy at such a late stage

:53:08. > :53:13.in its development simply will not do. Such a change would lead to an

:53:14. > :53:19.increase in deployment and an increase which runs counter to the

:53:20. > :53:24.intent of the early closure policy. This Government has a mandate to

:53:25. > :53:29.act, to protect consumer bills from rising costs. And we must continue

:53:30. > :53:36.to maintain the clear bright line, so carefully set out in the bill

:53:37. > :53:41.provisions. I will give way. In terms of the cost of this amendment

:53:42. > :53:45.from the Lords, what would she envisage the cost being if they

:53:46. > :53:51.fooled 90 megawatts we're talking about were deployed, the average

:53:52. > :53:57.bill, for consumers? So, the honourable gentleman will be aware

:53:58. > :54:01.that that is likely to reduce the predicted savings from our early

:54:02. > :54:06.closure, buy something in the region of ?10 million per annum. This is a

:54:07. > :54:13.significant figure, we're the early closure of the R O is expected to

:54:14. > :54:19.save, any central scenario, around ?29 a year and in the high scenario,

:54:20. > :54:23.as much as ?270 million per year. Delighted to give away. Does she

:54:24. > :54:27.agree that this is one of the most popular policies that we have put

:54:28. > :54:31.the electorate and therefore we need to get on with it and the other

:54:32. > :54:36.place should recognise this was an issue arising from the election?

:54:37. > :54:41.Might write honourable friend is exactly right. This is a key,

:54:42. > :54:44.popular manifesto commitment. And we're determined to implement it, as

:54:45. > :54:49.we promised the voters of this country that we would do, last May.

:54:50. > :54:56.He is exactly right. Madame Deputy Speaker, I will turn briefly to

:54:57. > :55:02.amendment 2a, which was agreed on the other place. This seeks to

:55:03. > :55:05.determine whether an oilfield project is complete, can be

:55:06. > :55:10.transferred to the Oil and Gas Authority. This function is it

:55:11. > :55:13.outside of chapter nine of the corporation tax and elsewhere within

:55:14. > :55:18.that act. Therefore, it does not fall within the definition of

:55:19. > :55:23.relevant function, under clause 26 of this bill. It is incapable of

:55:24. > :55:28.being transfer from the Secretary of State to the LGA by regulations made

:55:29. > :55:33.under clause 2-2. This removes the reference to part nine, from the

:55:34. > :55:38.reference to part eight of the corporation tax act of 2010, within

:55:39. > :55:45.clause 2-6, ensuring this important function is capable of being

:55:46. > :55:49.transferred to the LGA. So, this is purely technical in nature and seeks

:55:50. > :55:56.to put beyond doubt that all key oil and gas taxation functions can be

:55:57. > :56:03.transferred to the OGA, one becomes a Government company, as we have

:56:04. > :56:12.always intended. I beg to move. The question is that this has agrees

:56:13. > :56:15.with the Lords and their amendments. The messages we receive from the

:56:16. > :56:24.other place to make a number of changes to the bill. In most

:56:25. > :56:29.instances, the changes that relate to the areas mentioned, of the

:56:30. > :56:32.closure of the Aru itself, essentially because of the progress

:56:33. > :56:38.of the Bill through Parliament, leading to the potential charge of

:56:39. > :56:43.retrograde specificity. It is good that has been rectified. And that

:56:44. > :56:54.the Government is not backdating the closure of the RO. This changes to

:56:55. > :56:59.point to the issue that is raised in one of the other messages, which the

:57:00. > :57:05.Government is to be moving to disagree with. We need to be clear

:57:06. > :57:13.that the message itself is not saying that the notion of changing

:57:14. > :57:17.the closure date for the renewed obligation, as far as onshore wind

:57:18. > :57:22.farms concerned, is wrong. Although, myself, I continue to contain that

:57:23. > :57:26.it was and is. And particularly so, because contrary to the impression

:57:27. > :57:31.that the Minister gives us this afternoon, it is not the case that

:57:32. > :57:35.developers of project suddenly realised the closure date was going

:57:36. > :57:40.to the earlier than previously thought. Indeed, the so-called

:57:41. > :57:44.warnings that the minister mentioned, prior to the General

:57:45. > :57:50.Election, were not warnings about the early closure dates of the RO

:57:51. > :57:59.but warnings about future funding of onshore wind farm general. Since

:58:00. > :58:04.developers of projects always knew that they are would come to an end

:58:05. > :58:11.in March 20 17th anyway, and had many instances spent many years in

:58:12. > :58:15.the development process, a long period the former either the

:58:16. > :58:18.warnings of the policy was put forward in the manifesto and

:58:19. > :58:25.subsequently before a bill in this House... They found that after that

:58:26. > :58:31.long periods, having planned with the notion that the RO would come to

:58:32. > :58:36.an end, as they previously understood, they found late in the

:58:37. > :58:39.day that the goalposts had been arbitrarily moved and that

:58:40. > :58:47.investment costs were lost overnight as a result of that movement of the

:58:48. > :58:50.goalposts. And neither is it the case that this particular message,

:58:51. > :58:56.that the Government is moving to disagree with, is in any way

:58:57. > :59:04.contrary to manifesto commitments. It is not about the principle of the

:59:05. > :59:10.early closure of the RO. It is about grace periods, following that

:59:11. > :59:15.closure process. It is not saying there should not be grace periods,

:59:16. > :59:18.as far as exceptions for schemes that for various reasons might fall

:59:19. > :59:21.foul of this new and arbitrary cut-off date, what it is saying, and

:59:22. > :59:25.doing so by highlighting a small number of projects that have fallen

:59:26. > :59:28.foul of the cut-off date for some very specific reasons, his a grace

:59:29. > :59:32.period scheme should be built on a reasonable level of equity and

:59:33. > :59:36.fairness and should work within an understanding of proper reasons for

:59:37. > :59:39.exemption, rather than the imposing a few extended but nevertheless

:59:40. > :59:49.still arbitrary cut-off dates for projects. The message highlighted is

:59:50. > :59:53.a particularly egregious one, in the grace period scheme. It involves

:59:54. > :59:55.schemes that have, according to new guidelines laid down in the build

:59:56. > :59:58.process itself, done the right thing throughout. They have sought

:59:59. > :00:05.unsecured local support for proposals, which the Government said

:00:06. > :00:10.was to acquire development permission for any onshore wind farm

:00:11. > :00:17.in the future. Local committee should have a say in decisions. It

:00:18. > :00:20.should not seek to win an appeal on the basis of national determination

:00:21. > :00:25.after having been turned down at local level. Schemes in this

:00:26. > :00:31.amendment is it exactly that description. They have determinedly

:00:32. > :00:36.gone through the local process. They haven't aged weather, balance and

:00:37. > :00:38.back and waiting to progress through an appeal. They have one local

:00:39. > :00:46.community support to the granting of a planning decision. The only issue

:00:47. > :00:53.is that having done all this lengthy process of local concentration, they

:00:54. > :00:57.find their locally supported outcome has, by the stroke of a pen, been

:00:58. > :01:00.turned effectively into a refusal because the actual final planning

:01:01. > :01:03.certificate has not arrived by the cut-off date because of issues

:01:04. > :01:11.unrelated to the actual permission itself but concerned with details of

:01:12. > :01:15.Section 106 agreements or Section 75 agreement in Scotland. And not as a

:01:16. > :01:19.part of a process of the agreement, but arising because the agreement

:01:20. > :01:23.schemes could not produce a final schemes could not produce a final

:01:24. > :01:27.formal planning certificate by the arbitrary date of June 18, the

:01:28. > :01:33.scheme then as a whole, was lost. Here, for example, is one suchscheme

:01:34. > :01:40.'s timetable. It relates to the Shelling Hill Beach wind farm in

:01:41. > :01:46.Dumfriesshire. Planning was originally applied for in 2013. It

:01:47. > :01:51.was approved subject to a Section 75 agreement by a planning committee on

:01:52. > :01:56.the 16th of December, 2014. It was not the fault at all of the wind

:01:57. > :02:01.farm applicant that the council took a few months to settle the

:02:02. > :02:06.application. Even so, it was agreed on the 17th of June, 2015, again

:02:07. > :02:10.before the cut-off date. Despite the agreement being public and on the

:02:11. > :02:16.council website, the actual final certificate did not arrive until the

:02:17. > :02:24.1st of July, making it null and void. Quite possibly, it would have

:02:25. > :02:29.been wiser, in retrospect, for developers not to take too much time

:02:30. > :02:32.and attention on local agreement but instead to facilitate an appeal that

:02:33. > :02:35.they might hope to win. Some developers have done just this. And

:02:36. > :02:43.they appeal to decision arrives after the cut-off date, as we heard,

:02:44. > :02:47.that's fine, they are accepted, as far as grace periods are concerned,

:02:48. > :02:54.through a provision in this grace periods as being OK all along and

:02:55. > :03:01.their projects can proceed. This is frankly just perverse. It falls

:03:02. > :03:07.seriously short of the equity that ought to inform any grace period

:03:08. > :03:11.arrangement. The amendment seeks to attempt to restore some semblance of

:03:12. > :03:14.equity into the process. It does so on the grounds of the principles

:03:15. > :03:19.themselves that the Government put forward as the basis of decision on

:03:20. > :03:23.onshore wind farm applications. The principle of the future that we

:03:24. > :03:27.support on this site. The equity is simply this, they are for. If you

:03:28. > :03:32.had a planning decision from a local planning commission in your favour,

:03:33. > :03:35.before June 18, and you had arrived at that decision by a process of

:03:36. > :03:37.consultation and community acceptance to the application, then

:03:38. > :03:43.you should stand within the grace period. This is in itself a small

:03:44. > :03:51.amendment, that will affect only about half a dozen schemes and will

:03:52. > :03:56.make an insignificant inroad into the framework, as far as the RO is

:03:57. > :03:59.concerned. But it places a much-needed patch of equity onto the

:04:00. > :04:02.grace period structure and could perhaps point the way to a serious

:04:03. > :04:08.address of an issue of the future. And that issue is this, is the

:04:09. > :04:13.Government intent on ensuring offshore wind farms will be the

:04:14. > :04:21.future? After all, the cheapest and most effective renewable available

:04:22. > :04:25.today, if local support exists? Or will the Government use national

:04:26. > :04:32.clout to override local issues to ensure the closure of onshore wind

:04:33. > :04:36.farms overall, at least aspires England goes? Accepting this message

:04:37. > :04:39.and allowing the bill to be finalised will go a long way to

:04:40. > :04:43.restore a principle supposedly central to the process of the future

:04:44. > :04:46.and demonstrate to local communities that they really will be able to

:04:47. > :04:57.decide and will not find their local wishes snuffed out from the centre.

:04:58. > :05:01.I do hope the other place will not delay this still further. There are

:05:02. > :05:05.many people and parties in this House and in the other place, who

:05:06. > :05:09.wished to see the bill going through to provide measures to help our oil

:05:10. > :05:14.and gas industry, who are struggling at the moment, with a collapse in

:05:15. > :05:19.the world oil price. And the consequent threat to jobs and

:05:20. > :05:22.prosperity, which we would like to help the V8. I have two main reasons

:05:23. > :05:25.for supporting the Government in what they're trying to do here. I

:05:26. > :05:33.think they are right that energy is too dear and that this is a

:05:34. > :05:38.contribution to try to tackle the problem of expensive energy. We see

:05:39. > :05:40.the tragedy unfolding in several of our industries, most recently and

:05:41. > :05:45.notably in the steel industry, where the consequence is very high cost

:05:46. > :05:54.energy, compared to competitors around the world, and this impact on

:05:55. > :06:01.output profit, loss and loss of jobs. We need to do more to try to

:06:02. > :06:03.tackle the problem of energy and I admire the Government's urgency in

:06:04. > :06:07.tackling one of the sources of height cost energy and the

:06:08. > :06:12.subsequent withdrawal which I think is entirely appropriate. One of the

:06:13. > :06:17.problems with wind energy, making it a very high cost way of offering

:06:18. > :06:20.generating capacity, is that you need to build back-up capacity to

:06:21. > :06:24.generate the power by some other means. Because there will be times

:06:25. > :06:29.of the day, days of the week, weeks of the year, and is no wind and

:06:30. > :06:33.therefore you are entirely reliant on the back-up power, and you need

:06:34. > :06:39.to have a full range of back-up to do it. So, they were always be extra

:06:40. > :06:42.costs involved when you have an unreliable renewable source of

:06:43. > :06:49.energy, like that. And so, I think that on cost grounds, it is vital

:06:50. > :06:53.that we make rapid progress. The election was noticed enough, I would

:06:54. > :06:57.have thought, a prominent unpopular policy that none of us were shy

:06:58. > :07:01.about debating, and we got a lot of support from many people for saying

:07:02. > :07:06.it. The second reason why I think the Government is right to take this

:07:07. > :07:10.action is that because wind power is so intermittent and unreliable, if

:07:11. > :07:12.you have too much wind on your system, then the problems of

:07:13. > :07:18.managing and balancing the system become that much greater. As a

:07:19. > :07:22.Member of Parliament to represent the control centre in Wokingham, I

:07:23. > :07:27.am only too well aware of how that task is made much more expensive and

:07:28. > :07:31.complicated, the more unreliable energy there is on the system. And I

:07:32. > :07:37.think this will be a welcome check on that, which will help manage the

:07:38. > :07:40.system better and provide more reliable power for industry. Again,

:07:41. > :07:44.it will be industry and commerce that take the hit, that if we have

:07:45. > :07:48.to not unreliable power on the system, and that power goes down,

:07:49. > :07:54.they only once asked to forego the use of power for the time period

:07:55. > :07:57.when there is no wind. When we are desperately try to compete in a

:07:58. > :08:01.competitive world, surely it is important, not just to keep the

:08:02. > :08:05.lights on in people's households but to keep the factories turning. For

:08:06. > :08:08.those two very powerful reasons, there are others which I will not

:08:09. > :08:13.detain the House with, I strongly support the Government is doing and

:08:14. > :08:15.would urge the other place to recognise the importance of this

:08:16. > :08:20.work our national energy security, for the sake of the prices charged

:08:21. > :08:20.to our consumers and above all, to remember this was an election

:08:21. > :08:37.pledge. As often as the case, sometimes you

:08:38. > :08:42.don't know what is a formal role in what is just convention. I assumed

:08:43. > :08:51.the reference to ping-pong was a colloquialism. When I look at the

:08:52. > :08:55.order papers, that is the formal name for this process. I was never

:08:56. > :09:00.very good at ping-pong when I was younger. I kept taking my eye off

:09:01. > :09:03.the ball. That is something which could be suggested of the government

:09:04. > :09:08.in terms of this. The dogmatism we are seeing in terms of pursuing this

:09:09. > :09:13.and continuing with the ping-pong back and force is taking the eye off

:09:14. > :09:23.the bigger picture. I agree with the Member for walking. The bigger

:09:24. > :09:28.picture at every stage of this bill has been about the OGA. We could

:09:29. > :09:34.finish this bill just now with a minor acceptance of Lords amendment

:09:35. > :09:39.and be done. That is something I would be supportive of. The

:09:40. > :09:44.amendments put forward I think are sensible and will deliver the

:09:45. > :09:52.pragmatic response I think is beholden upon government to deliver.

:09:53. > :09:57.I am sure everyone has pressing engagements, but given the

:09:58. > :10:04.importance of the OGA put years just outlined and given the state of the

:10:05. > :10:13.oil and gas fields in Scotland, is he a little surprised by the absence

:10:14. > :10:16.of support from his party colleagues? Sometimes it is better

:10:17. > :10:24.to know the answer to the question you're asking before you and is --

:10:25. > :10:29.before you ask it. A number of my colleagues are meeting constituents

:10:30. > :10:38.who have travelled from Scotland who suffer from motor neurone disease.

:10:39. > :10:47.Given the hugely debilitating aspect of that, I think it is important for

:10:48. > :10:58.them to meet them. At second reading, there were very few SNP MPs

:10:59. > :11:02.present as well. I started by seeing at one point in my youth I was

:11:03. > :11:08.guilty of taking my eye off the ball. In terms of these diversionary

:11:09. > :11:15.tactics, I think we are seeing our eye well and truly off the ball. Not

:11:16. > :11:29.many of us are in the chamber and that is perhaps disappointing. I

:11:30. > :11:40.shall persevere. We are talking about 90 megawatts of onshore wind.

:11:41. > :11:44.The Energy Minister said in February it is our intention to give

:11:45. > :11:50.communities the final say on wind farm development. Of the probably

:11:51. > :12:00.six schemes were talking about, five of them in Scotland received

:12:01. > :12:10.planning consent. One in North Lanarkshire, 24 of November 2014,

:12:11. > :12:21.Dumfries and Galloway, 11 December 2014, Argyll and Bute, three June

:12:22. > :12:36.2015, Dumfries and Galloway, 25 September 2015, South Lanarkshire,

:12:37. > :12:40.January 2015, also 24 February 2015, and also on the 5th of June. All of

:12:41. > :12:49.these are before the cut-off date. As the honourable member's tests

:12:50. > :12:53.suggested, if we are to put local consent at the heart of this, we

:12:54. > :12:59.need to accept the outcomes and wills of the local councils that

:13:00. > :13:05.erected for these schemes to proceed, but through no fault of

:13:06. > :13:17.their own by the developers were not granted the decision notice. To

:13:18. > :13:24.highlight one of those, it is the 20 shilling Hill wind farm. The

:13:25. > :13:33.evidence to the committee from the district community Council stated

:13:34. > :13:39.this. Our communities number nearly 5000 inhabitants. Since the closure

:13:40. > :13:50.of coal mines, they have stumbled from crisis to crisis. We are not

:13:51. > :14:02.dependent. Wind farm money will release money to improve the area in

:14:03. > :14:07.which we live. That is local empowerment. We are talking about

:14:08. > :14:13.local consent, local support. In the case of 20 shilling Hill, that has

:14:14. > :14:24.unmistakably got the support of the communities in which it will be. For

:14:25. > :14:28.the sake of Pugh points of dogmatic principle from the government, we

:14:29. > :14:32.are seeing that taken away through no fault of the community or the

:14:33. > :14:37.developer, but to purely persevere in what is really an unnecessary

:14:38. > :14:43.way. I would urge the government to get the eye back on the ball here.

:14:44. > :14:49.To see the energy bill passed today. If we carry on with this ping-pong

:14:50. > :14:55.back and forth, we risk delaying it further. Can I put something to him

:14:56. > :15:03.that I think I put to him in the Bill committee, which is on the

:15:04. > :15:08.point of principle, if there are schemes in Scotland that the SNP

:15:09. > :15:13.Scottish Government wished to continue, why don't they simply pay

:15:14. > :15:20.for them themselves? Because there is no mechanism. We discussed that

:15:21. > :15:26.and the honourable member 40 against the mechanism that would allow that

:15:27. > :15:33.to happen. I don't see how that question focuses on what the issue

:15:34. > :15:37.is. Support could have been given. What happened was he wanted the

:15:38. > :15:41.power but they were not going to pay for it. That was the point we

:15:42. > :15:48.discussed in Bill committee. They were not prepared to pay for it. We

:15:49. > :15:57.had a number of debates. The question he asked is how would we do

:15:58. > :16:01.it. We can't. Pure and simple. People would like to see pragmatic

:16:02. > :16:09.government. What we are seeing today is dogmatic government. It is

:16:10. > :16:14.dismissing the views of communities. I am coming to a close. I would urge

:16:15. > :16:23.the government to show pragmatism today. It is a pleasure to listen to

:16:24. > :16:29.a message from the other place and disagree with it wholeheartedly. A

:16:30. > :16:38.few hours after the German government started to withdraw

:16:39. > :16:45.subsidy from onshore wind subsidies because of the same reasons we are

:16:46. > :16:51.doing in this country. In previous debates and in committee I described

:16:52. > :17:06.my campaign to get this clear manifesto pledge out of my party. I

:17:07. > :17:15.won't go through it again. I know we are time-limited. It stemmed from

:17:16. > :17:18.the decision in my constituency. To make the point to member is not in

:17:19. > :17:22.this place who understand how important it is to represent their

:17:23. > :17:29.constituents, but maybe to some of those in the other place, that

:17:30. > :17:40.actually it was not just one small village in my constituency affected

:17:41. > :17:41.by an onshore wind decision, there were several towns and villages

:17:42. > :17:56.involved. Many villages and the town of

:17:57. > :18:04.Daventry. All affected by proposals for unwanted onshore wind farms

:18:05. > :18:08.around them. That is why we had the letter signed by 101 members of

:18:09. > :18:14.Parliament in the last mandate of this Parliament to the Prime

:18:15. > :18:20.Minister to get this change. That is why there was the long battle across

:18:21. > :18:26.the four of this House about whether we should be subsidising onshore

:18:27. > :18:34.wind. That is why there was a clear manifesto pledge by the Conservative

:18:35. > :18:42.Party to stop funding onshore wind. And why I understand the Member for

:18:43. > :18:46.Aberdeen South and Southampton have highlighted small factors within the

:18:47. > :18:51.grace period, this is a clear manifesto pledge, a clear principle

:18:52. > :18:56.that people in my constituency wanted me to an expected me to fight

:18:57. > :19:01.for. I have to say, I'm not going to listen to those in the other house

:19:02. > :19:09.who are determined to use party politics on this. There are no Lib

:19:10. > :19:22.Dem is in the chamber today. It is the Lib Dems who fought to reform

:19:23. > :19:28.the other chamber and there are now using that to abuse the democratic

:19:29. > :19:34.process of this country. They know full well what they are doing. I

:19:35. > :19:38.thought when Lord Wallace decided that he wanted to interpret the

:19:39. > :19:42.Conservative Party manifesto it was interesting that many of the Lib

:19:43. > :19:47.Dems who supported him had been defeated by people supporting the

:19:48. > :19:52.Conservative Party manifesto and had lost their seats. One of the reasons

:19:53. > :19:57.they lost their seats was because in the can bash in their communities

:19:58. > :20:02.they could not defend onshore wind turbines. A clear party manifesto

:20:03. > :20:10.commitment of my party to get rid of them. I will happily give way. We

:20:11. > :20:20.are talking about a small number of wind farms. I don't believe any of

:20:21. > :20:25.those Liberal Democrats would have lost to the Conservative Party. He

:20:26. > :20:32.said he had a small trouble with conventions. Solder some members of

:20:33. > :20:39.the House of Lords. I'm trying to remind them of one that is a long

:20:40. > :20:45.standing convention in this place, that when our party has a manifesto

:20:46. > :20:50.commitment and it enacts legislation, it should not be

:20:51. > :20:58.overturned by those unelected at the other end of this corridor. When you

:20:59. > :21:01.look at who voted for the amendments in the Lords, for this message to be

:21:02. > :21:06.sent to the Commons, you will see a whole list of names of former bash

:21:07. > :21:13.former members of Parliament from this place who lost their seats

:21:14. > :21:25.because of that very manifesto they are trying to overturn from an --

:21:26. > :21:29.unelected place. This is without doubt, I was there from the very

:21:30. > :21:34.concept of this manifesto pledge through to point of delivery, on the

:21:35. > :21:41.energy Bill committee, I am pretty sure that I know what our manifesto

:21:42. > :21:47.pledge was and I am pretty sure the people voting for it in my

:21:48. > :21:51.constituency knew what it was. It was on my leaflets. Fairly plain for

:21:52. > :21:57.all to see. I very much wish to send a message to those down the other

:21:58. > :21:59.end but they are dabbling with democracy here. They're not just

:22:00. > :22:08.fighting for the principle of a grace period for six wind farms.

:22:09. > :22:14.They are actually fighting against a clear manifesto pledge from the

:22:15. > :22:17.governing party. I wonder if he had on his election leaflet details of

:22:18. > :22:24.the grace periods that would have been put in place as the consequence

:22:25. > :22:32.to the manifesto commitment? If he didn't have those, then he has to

:22:33. > :22:36.conclude that the question of grace periods is not to do with the

:22:37. > :22:43.manifesto commitment but about circumstances under which that

:22:44. > :22:45.manifesto commitment might be more Alice Paul and that is what we are

:22:46. > :22:55.discussing today. That is the sort of thing I probably

:22:56. > :23:03.would have had etched in stone for people to laugh at. Of course I

:23:04. > :23:08.didn't have a thing about grace periods in my local leaflets to

:23:09. > :23:13.constituents, because I thought they would get the fact that when we said

:23:14. > :23:18.there was no subsidy for onshore wind, that people would understand

:23:19. > :23:23.exactly what that meant and would not have to dance on the head of a

:23:24. > :23:30.pin for a simple party political point. I began. My constituents

:23:31. > :23:35.aren't desperate for this measure to come through. They are desperate for

:23:36. > :23:40.measures to help the oil and gas industry to come through. They are

:23:41. > :23:43.surprised that Lib Dems down the other end of the corridor in This

:23:44. > :23:48.Place are willing to play politics with the elected Chamber or a point

:23:49. > :23:54.in a manifesto that they were heartily defeated on. And they are

:23:55. > :24:02.annoyed by the fact that this matter hasn't become law already. Madam

:24:03. > :24:07.Deputy Speaker, it was great to serve on the bill committee and if I

:24:08. > :24:12.do return briefly to this point that was raised by the member for

:24:13. > :24:16.Aberdeen South, I think it is important that the record is

:24:17. > :24:20.straight. Before I give my reasons in relation to supporting the

:24:21. > :24:25.government today, my recollection, and I am happy for this to be

:24:26. > :24:30.clarified, is that when the SNP tabled amendments to have the power

:24:31. > :24:36.to keep these projects open, when asked, they did not confirm that

:24:37. > :24:39.they would also put the money up to support them, and the justification

:24:40. > :24:43.given related to the nuclear industry. As I recall, they said it

:24:44. > :24:47.was fair not to have to pay for it because after all they have to pay

:24:48. > :24:51.towards the nuclear industry which they don't agree with. Thereafter, I

:24:52. > :24:56.put it to them, would they want to be cut off from the electricity

:24:57. > :25:01.supply that comes from the nuclear sector in this country, and the

:25:02. > :25:04.answer was no. As always, they want to have their cake and eat it, like

:25:05. > :25:08.the Mayor of London, but unlike the Mayor of London they don't make the

:25:09. > :25:12.arduous with such grace, although the honourable gentleman has tried

:25:13. > :25:21.his best and has got some extra support in to back him up. My

:25:22. > :25:31.reasons are clear. The first relates to the simple principle of democracy

:25:32. > :25:34.and the position of my constituents, overwhelmingly my constituents want

:25:35. > :25:38.to see the policy on onshore wind in acted, and in acted in good time.

:25:39. > :25:41.Since at ending the Bill committee I have been out and about in the

:25:42. > :25:50.constituency and this continues to come up. I attended a meeting in my

:25:51. > :25:54.constituency of a fine of up standing group of ladies and

:25:55. > :25:56.gentlemen who are committed to preserving and protecting the

:25:57. > :26:01.natural beauty and heritage of the countryside in South Suffolk,

:26:02. > :26:06.particularly a peninsular where the River Stour meets the River Orwell

:26:07. > :26:11.and is a very fine and place to come and visit and is not particularly

:26:12. > :26:16.blighted by large constructions that would be affected by these changes,

:26:17. > :26:19.so overwhelmingly the constituency position is that they support these

:26:20. > :26:24.changes and want to see them come through. The second point, as has

:26:25. > :26:31.been alluded to by my Right Honourable Friend and others, is the

:26:32. > :26:38.oil and gas authority, I want to echo the point already made that we

:26:39. > :26:46.should not delay a bill... Is the honourable gentleman intervening? We

:26:47. > :26:50.can proceed today if the government agrees to this particular amendment.

:26:51. > :26:54.Therefore the issue of the oil and gas agency can go forward with good

:26:55. > :27:02.speed, which we all want to happen. If the honourable gentleman is happy

:27:03. > :27:04.to provide ?10 million so that the taxpayer and illiteracy the

:27:05. > :27:08.customers that have to be so encumbered, then we can move right

:27:09. > :27:12.away. We have a clear position. The bill as set out has not changed in

:27:13. > :27:15.terms of the fundamental point about the oil and gas authority. When we

:27:16. > :27:23.had the second reading, that day, the price of oil was $27 a barrel

:27:24. > :27:27.and it is now roundabout $44, so there has been some stabilisation,

:27:28. > :27:33.but that word has to be used carefully, because when one looks at

:27:34. > :27:37.what happens around the world, there was a piece on continuing a

:27:38. > :27:41.stability in Jamaica and Saudi Arabia is now starting to borrow

:27:42. > :27:45.from the markets. The concern is that the price might go up, it might

:27:46. > :27:49.go back down again. It is an uncertain outlook. Having this bill

:27:50. > :27:54.passed into law with this new, respect regulator will add stability

:27:55. > :27:58.and credibility to the sector at an important time. It is not a magic

:27:59. > :28:02.wand. It will not heal the problems that are there in this vital

:28:03. > :28:07.industry for the United Kingdom, but I do think it is a key part of

:28:08. > :28:11.energy policy and proposition and that is why the Bill should go

:28:12. > :28:16.through as soon as. Is in place a it is about our national interest which

:28:17. > :28:20.for many decades has been tied to North Sea oil and to the energy

:28:21. > :28:24.sector and the East Anglia and economy, not just Scotland, the East

:28:25. > :28:28.Anglian economy has significant output and jobs coming from the oil

:28:29. > :28:34.sector, so I would encourage all members to support the government on

:28:35. > :28:37.this. Our reasons are clear. It is about supporting the energy sector

:28:38. > :28:42.and respecting the democratic rule of the people of the United Kingdom.

:28:43. > :28:47.I think we all hope that the energy bill would by now have completed its

:28:48. > :28:51.progress through Parliament. It is a shame that it has not, especially as

:28:52. > :28:55.the closure of the renewables obligation for onshore wind was a

:28:56. > :29:00.clear manifesto commitment made by the government before the last

:29:01. > :29:05.election. This is a popular pledge, especially in my own constituency,

:29:06. > :29:10.there are positions for wind farms on the Mendips which are widespread.

:29:11. > :29:15.It is difficult to explain to them that this manifesto commitment, the

:29:16. > :29:18.government has a clear mandate to deliver, has not been enacted

:29:19. > :29:24.because of the intervention of the unelected members of the Other

:29:25. > :29:29.Place. Especially, as has been noted by a number of my friends on the

:29:30. > :29:32.side of the House, as the House of Lords, the opposition has been

:29:33. > :29:37.abetted in the House of Lords, by a party that was so roundly rejected

:29:38. > :29:42.in Somerset, in the south-west and across the country as a whole, and

:29:43. > :29:49.yet not one of them has come to this elected Chamber today, mad that the

:29:50. > :29:54.Speaker, to justify the actions of their unelected colleagues in the

:29:55. > :30:00.Other Place. The illiberal un-Democrats have a great deal to

:30:01. > :30:04.answer for. And I'm looking to actually both the Secretary of State

:30:05. > :30:06.and Minister of State for their forbearance in seeing this bill

:30:07. > :30:11.through Parliament. I understand the Secretary of State spent some time

:30:12. > :30:15.at the bar of the other House to try and eyeball those who were delaying

:30:16. > :30:20.it the other day. Sadly, they had their way and we are here yet again

:30:21. > :30:23.to debate this bill. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is important we do not

:30:24. > :30:30.allow the closure of the renewables organ at -- obligation for onshore

:30:31. > :30:34.wind to be cast as anti-green. It has been widespread despite strong

:30:35. > :30:38.opposition here in This Place with my honourable member -- friend the

:30:39. > :30:43.member for Daventry in the vanguard, but also for communities across the

:30:44. > :30:50.constituencies of this country. ?800 million of subsidy has meant that

:30:51. > :30:57.490 onshore wind farms exist and there are just under 5000 turbines

:30:58. > :31:03.already operating so this is not an anti-wind or anti-green measure. The

:31:04. > :31:06.government has needed to deliver its manifesto commitment to make sure

:31:07. > :31:09.that bill payers are not expected to fit the bill for the excess

:31:10. > :31:15.deployment of this type of generation. Let us be clear, the

:31:16. > :31:19.government is well on track to achieve 30% of its electricity

:31:20. > :31:22.generation from reasonable sources by 2020, and we should congratulate

:31:23. > :31:27.them for that. This is a government that is serious about

:31:28. > :31:32.decarbonisation, about security of supply, and about keeping bills

:31:33. > :31:37.down. A line must be drawn somewhere. The government 's

:31:38. > :31:43.decision on this is, in my view, entirely reasonable. So let's reject

:31:44. > :31:45.Lords Amendment 70 and stop the onshore wind industry from impeding

:31:46. > :31:53.the progress of a bill that principally establishes all the

:31:54. > :31:58.important functions that the LGA has in the oil and gas industry,

:31:59. > :32:01.safeguarding thousands of jobs, contributing billions to the economy

:32:02. > :32:05.and protecting an essential component of not only our energy

:32:06. > :32:11.security but, I would argue, our national security, too. It is well

:32:12. > :32:15.timed that we moved on with this bill, Madam Deputy Speaker, and that

:32:16. > :32:20.the Lords accented the will of this elected Chamber. It is time that we

:32:21. > :32:25.focused our energy is not on onshore wind but on using the government

:32:26. > :32:28.structure to encourage the technologies that we envisage as

:32:29. > :32:33.part of the energy mix for the next 20-30 years, like offshore wind and

:32:34. > :32:39.new nuclear. I am just wrapping up, but please... Meilleroux friend is

:32:40. > :32:44.making a powerful and well-informed speech. While ending the subsidy for

:32:45. > :32:49.onshore wind, there is a future role for onshore wind and we have got to

:32:50. > :32:53.carry on making sure that onshore wind whilst it is not subsidised

:32:54. > :32:59.does not lose out compared to the price is granted to other

:33:00. > :33:04.technologies as we go forward. I accept his point to a degree. This

:33:05. > :33:07.is not so much the end of onshore wind, it is clear that it is time

:33:08. > :33:14.for it to find its own feet and go its way, and where it can be sited

:33:15. > :33:18.in a permissive planning environment, I drive up the M5

:33:19. > :33:21.regularly passed the onshore wind turbines at Avonmouth, and one might

:33:22. > :33:25.argue that in that industrial setting they are entirely

:33:26. > :33:29.reasonable. Providing they can be sited in such a place and do not

:33:30. > :33:33.require any further government subsidy then of course they may

:33:34. > :33:38.continue, but it is important that that subsidy ends and it ends with

:33:39. > :33:40.the passage of this bill also what is important is that the energy

:33:41. > :33:44.agenda Select Committee have recently begun pre-legislative

:33:45. > :33:48.scrutiny for the next energy bill. There is a great deal in that which

:33:49. > :33:54.is quite exciting, in my view. Let's get on with this one -- let's get

:33:55. > :33:58.this one done and get on with that one. It is a pleasure to take part

:33:59. > :34:02.in this debate. We have an interesting contributions from

:34:03. > :34:08.across the House. On the issue of ending subsidy of onshore wind, the

:34:09. > :34:13.aim of subsidy regimes for renewable technology is to encourage and drive

:34:14. > :34:17.down the cost, over time, to the point where they no longer need

:34:18. > :34:23.subsidies. And the government did put it in its manifesto. Personally,

:34:24. > :34:25.I think the party opposite has a lot to do with this because they

:34:26. > :34:31.wouldn't listen to communities like my own who felt that they were

:34:32. > :34:35.having wind farms imposed upon them, blighting their view, the landscape

:34:36. > :34:39.and that sense of loss of control, even more than the imposition of the

:34:40. > :34:42.turbines was something that rated a great deal of resentment and we have

:34:43. > :34:48.ended up in a position where the party which they did win a majority

:34:49. > :34:54.stood on a promise to end that subsidy. We have also made provision

:34:55. > :34:59.to ensure that onshore wind, if it does go-ahead, does so with the

:35:00. > :35:03.support of the local community. And that was the issue that should have

:35:04. > :35:07.been sorted and it would have been sorted sooner, and we would not have

:35:08. > :35:10.needed to create a special, we would not cover the backlash that would

:35:11. > :35:15.have found form through the agency of my on Bulbring sitting there side

:35:16. > :35:19.meet, that they feel the subsidy resume is imposing this, these

:35:20. > :35:22.turbines on us. It was the permissions rather than the subsidy

:35:23. > :35:27.which is was the central issue but we are where we are. Further to my

:35:28. > :35:32.intervention on My Honourable Friend for Wells, we need to make sure

:35:33. > :35:39.that, given that we have an energy market now where the price charged

:35:40. > :35:43.for energy be -- imagery from producers is far less than anyone

:35:44. > :35:50.could afford to commission new production for, we have a rather

:35:51. > :35:53.artificial market. So I hope and expect and I know that ministers are

:35:54. > :35:56.looking at this, we need to make sure that we have a regime going

:35:57. > :36:01.forward around contracts for difference or whatever else, so that

:36:02. > :36:08.onshore wind is not artificially blocked from getting access to the

:36:09. > :36:11.market, because of the way the pricing within that market operates.

:36:12. > :36:16.It is perfectly possible for us to ensure that there is no subsidy of

:36:17. > :36:24.onshore wind whilst making sure that onshore wind alone is deprived of

:36:25. > :36:27.access to the mechanisms that drive new commissioning that every other

:36:28. > :36:34.technology has. I hope we will get agreement across the House, so long

:36:35. > :36:38.as immunities have the final say on whether -- communities have the

:36:39. > :36:41.final say on whether there is new wind farm capacity brought into

:36:42. > :36:44.their area and that onshore wind is treated no differently than other

:36:45. > :36:49.technologies, including fossil fuels, like gas, then that is a

:36:50. > :36:56.situation which we need to bring about. I will give way. It is quite

:36:57. > :36:59.difficult issue on how you attribute cost to the stand-by power which

:37:00. > :37:05.wind uniquely needs in a way that others don't. I agree there are

:37:06. > :37:10.issues. My Right Honourable Friend, in his speech, did not reflect upon

:37:11. > :37:14.the success of the government because I know that he is sceptical

:37:15. > :37:17.both about climate change and about government approach over the years

:37:18. > :37:22.towards this. What is undeniable is, if you look at the way that the cost

:37:23. > :37:26.curve has been accelerated, because we were in a position when clean

:37:27. > :37:33.energy was ridiculously more expensive than fossil fuels, which

:37:34. > :37:36.poisoned the air, as well as having climate risks attached to it as

:37:37. > :37:40.well, therefore what we have actually seen is driving down that

:37:41. > :37:44.cost and we're at that point now where onshore wind is in a position

:37:45. > :37:52.where it should be able to compete on a level playing field with new

:37:53. > :37:56.gas fired power stations, and we are not going to see any more coal, and

:37:57. > :38:03.we have seen, if we look at offshore wind, just a few years ago it was

:38:04. > :38:07.?150 per megawatt hour, now we are looking at what was announced in the

:38:08. > :38:11.Autumn Statement, we're going to see a ceiling of around 105 pounds per

:38:12. > :38:18.megawatt hour and by the time begets two to 2020, the mid-decade, we're

:38:19. > :38:22.looking at below ?85 per megawatt hour, which mile right on both

:38:23. > :38:28.friends will know is less than has been guaranteed to Hinckley. We are

:38:29. > :38:33.moving to a world of reusables, and as part of the reset we are going to

:38:34. > :38:37.have an improved approach to encouraging storage, to encouraging

:38:38. > :38:40.demand management and roll out of smart meters as part of that,

:38:41. > :38:45.efforts are going with the National Grid with major industries to find

:38:46. > :38:50.the cheapest way of encouraging them not to use energy at times when the

:38:51. > :38:53.grid is being pushed, as well as getting into connectors as well. So

:38:54. > :38:58.we are building the more intelligent systems which will take cost out of

:38:59. > :39:01.the intermittent renewables sector, at the same time that there is

:39:02. > :39:07.really does become cheaper in their production costs, more efficient and

:39:08. > :39:11.are helping us to meet our climate change objectives.

:39:12. > :39:20.I think, with that, I am pleased to say that it is time that we did get

:39:21. > :39:25.this law into place. Make sure that the Oil and Gas UK order to years

:39:26. > :39:31.able to do this work, and if, as I expect there will be, a rise in oil

:39:32. > :39:35.price, we will have an oil business in this country that is fit for

:39:36. > :39:39.purpose, efficient, and will deliver jobs in Scotland and elsewhere in

:39:40. > :39:45.the United Kingdom. With leave of the House. The energy bill will

:39:46. > :39:53.enact our manifesto commitments. First of all in creating the oil and

:39:54. > :39:57.gas authority, which is part of our continued support of North Sea oil

:39:58. > :40:00.and gas. We are implementing the recommendations of the review by Sir

:40:01. > :40:04.Ian Wood, and we are doing everything we can to try to ensure

:40:05. > :40:11.the long-term survival and thriving of this critical UK industry. The

:40:12. > :40:14.North Sea oil and gas industry has been the UK's largest industrial

:40:15. > :40:21.investor for many decades and has paid billions of pounds in

:40:22. > :40:24.corporation tax is in production. But becomes more difficult to access

:40:25. > :40:30.and we cannot and must not accept any delay in completing this bill,

:40:31. > :40:37.so we can get the Oil and Gas UK authority the powers it needs to

:40:38. > :40:42.maximise the recovery. Industry and governments share the same

:40:43. > :40:45.ambitions. They are working closely together to manage the remaining

:40:46. > :40:49.resources effectively and efficiently, and I find it

:40:50. > :40:54.disappointing that honourable members opposite who should know

:40:55. > :41:01.better are somehow suggesting that I adding only ?10 extra per person to

:41:02. > :41:05.consumer bills this afternoon we can somehow achieve the aim of setting

:41:06. > :41:10.up the gas and oil authority early. They should be ashamed of themselves

:41:11. > :41:14.and should be supporting the speedy conclusion of this bill to Royal

:41:15. > :41:21.assent for the sake of the Oil and Gas UK is too that they all profess

:41:22. > :41:25.to support. Turning to the delivery of the government's manifesto

:41:26. > :41:30.commitments on onshore wind. Ending new subsidies for onshore wind and

:41:31. > :41:36.ensuring that local people have the final say on whether onshore wind is

:41:37. > :41:39.built is what the government promised in our manifesto. Members

:41:40. > :41:43.opposite as suggesting that just because they are is local agreement

:41:44. > :41:48.to it, therefore it is fine to add more to the bills for all consumers

:41:49. > :41:53.across Great Britain. That simply is not the case. It is our duty as

:41:54. > :41:58.consumer champions at least on this side of the House to cook the costs

:41:59. > :42:04.down to consumers, and that is what we will do. Onshore wind has

:42:05. > :42:12.deployed successfully and is expected to meet our plant used by

:42:13. > :42:18.2020, but we do not want to provide subsidies where they are no longer

:42:19. > :42:23.necessary and adding to the costs of consumers. We must have the right

:42:24. > :42:28.balance between each of the priorities, to keep the lights on,

:42:29. > :42:31.to keep bills down, and to decarbonise at the lowest possible

:42:32. > :42:37.price, but above all else we really want to see today members right

:42:38. > :42:44.across this chamber supporting these amendments so we can get the oil and

:42:45. > :42:49.gas authority... Order, I must now bring to a conclusion proceedings on

:42:50. > :42:53.consideration of the Lord's message to the energy Bill Lord's. The

:42:54. > :43:07.question is that this House agrees with the Lords under amendment said

:43:08. > :43:10.in a. The ayes have it. -- ayes. The question is that this has disagrees

:43:11. > :43:23.with the Lord's and their amendment 17. Division, clear of the lobby. --

:43:24. > :44:14.clear the lobby. The question is that this House

:44:15. > :51:21.disagrees with the Lords and their amendment.

:51:22. > :56:52.Order, order. The Ayes to the right, 293. The Noes to the left, 224.

:56:53. > :57:00.The Ayes to the right, the hundred 93, the Noes to the left, 224, the

:57:01. > :57:03.Ayes have it, the Ayes have it, unlock. The question is that this

:57:04. > :57:07.House agrees with the Lords on all the remaining amendments As many as

:57:08. > :57:13.are of that opinion say aye, contrary no. I think the Ayes have

:57:14. > :57:20.it. The Minister to move that the committee be appointed to draw up

:57:21. > :57:31.readings. I move that a committee be appointed a reading to be assigned

:57:32. > :57:37.to the Lords for disagreeing to the amendments 17 that Andrew Ellis and

:57:38. > :57:42.be the Chair of the committee, that the committee to withdraw

:57:43. > :57:46.immediately. The question is that the committee be appointed to draw

:57:47. > :57:49.up a reason to be assigned to the laws for disagreeing to the

:57:50. > :57:55.amendments 17 propose to Commons amendment seven, that James

:57:56. > :57:58.Cartledge, Andrea Letson, Holly Lynch, Calum MacRae, Paul Julian

:57:59. > :58:04.Smith and Doctor Adam Whitehead being members of the committee that

:58:05. > :58:07.Angela Letson be the Chair of the committee, that three B the quorum

:58:08. > :58:12.of the committee, that the committee do with law immediately, As many as

:58:13. > :58:14.are of that opinion say aye, contrary no. I think the Ayes have

:58:15. > :58:30.it, the Ayes have it. We now come to the backbench debate

:58:31. > :58:38.on the recognition of genocide by Daesh against Christians, Yazifdis

:58:39. > :58:43.and other ethnic and religious minorities. We will be strict about

:58:44. > :58:45.opening speeches being 15 minutes and no more, including

:58:46. > :58:51.interventions, but there will be an eight minute limit on backbench

:58:52. > :58:54.contributions. If I can remained honourable members that when

:58:55. > :58:58.interventions are taken and a minute two minutes are added to their

:58:59. > :59:04.speech, then that is minutes taken out of speeches of members later on

:59:05. > :59:11.down the Speaker's list, so people could be aware of that I would be

:59:12. > :59:15.very grateful. My thanks to the backbench business committee for

:59:16. > :59:18.allowing time for this debate. Genocide is a word of such gravity

:59:19. > :59:24.that it should never be used readily. It is rightly known as the

:59:25. > :59:28.crime above all crimes. For this reason it is incumbent upon us to

:59:29. > :59:34.prevent devaluation or overuse of it. But such caution must not stop

:59:35. > :59:40.us naming genocide when one is taking place. The proposers of this

:59:41. > :59:44.motion are here to insist that the overwhelming evidence of the

:59:45. > :59:51.atrocities of Daesh in Syria and Iraq is recognised for the genocide

:59:52. > :59:53.it is and is considered as such by the UN Security Council and

:59:54. > :59:57.International Criminal Court. This will support similar resolutions of

:59:58. > :00:04.other leading international and legislative bodies. There are only

:00:05. > :00:07.two possibilities here. If the House is not satisfied that genocidal

:00:08. > :00:12.atrocities are being perpetrated, we must not pass this motion on which I

:00:13. > :00:19.am minded to test the will of the House. If colleagues believe that

:00:20. > :00:23.the depravities of Daesh are being taken with genocidal intent, then we

:00:24. > :00:29.have already waited far too long to recognise this. Yesterday evening

:00:30. > :00:36.here in the UK Parliament, we heard the truly harrowing personal

:00:37. > :00:39.testimony of a brave 60 rolled Yazidi girl. She was seized along

:00:40. > :00:49.with others from her community by Daesh from her home in Sinjar,

:00:50. > :00:53.northern Iraq. At 15 she told how she saw her father and brother

:00:54. > :00:56.killed in front of her, and every girl in her community over the age

:00:57. > :01:00.of eight was imprisoned and rape. She spoke of witnessing her friends

:01:01. > :01:03.being raped and hearing their screams, of seeing a girl aged nine

:01:04. > :01:08.being raped by so many men that she died. Many young girls had their

:01:09. > :01:12.larger bodies rendered incapable of pregnancy and others far too young

:01:13. > :01:19.to do so were made pregnant. Horrifically, she spoke of seeing a

:01:20. > :01:27.two-year-old boy being killed, his body parts ground down and then fed

:01:28. > :01:29.to his own mother. She told of children being brainwashed and

:01:30. > :01:33.forced to kill the run parents. Fortunately, she managed to escape

:01:34. > :01:40.risen during a bombardment of the area around it. Others are not so

:01:41. > :01:44.fortunate. We heard from another woman, Yvette, who had come from

:01:45. > :01:47.Syria for last night's meeting and spoke of Christie 's been killed and

:01:48. > :01:52.tortured, of children being beheaded in front of their parents. She

:01:53. > :01:57.showed recent phone footage of her talking with mothers who had seen

:01:58. > :02:06.the Rhone children crucified and another woman who sold 250 children

:02:07. > :02:09.put through a dough kneader and burned in an oven. The oldest was

:02:10. > :02:14.four years old. And of a mother with two-month-old baby. When Daesh not

:02:15. > :02:18.that the front door and ordered the family out of the House, she pleaded

:02:19. > :02:30.to let them collect a child from another room. They told, no, go. It

:02:31. > :02:34.is ours now. Thank you for bringing forward is very important debate.

:02:35. > :02:39.She's making a very powerful speech. Every year members of this House

:02:40. > :02:44.signed the Holocaust book of commitment, making that pledge that

:02:45. > :02:49.that terrible genocide will never be forgotten. I signed a pledge that I

:02:50. > :02:55.will never walk on by. Does the honourable lady agree that today we

:02:56. > :03:00.have an opportunity to, none of us, walk on by, as we see this terrible

:03:01. > :03:04.genocide unfold? After the horrors of the Holocaust, the words "Never

:03:05. > :03:10.again" resounded through civilisation. We must not let them

:03:11. > :03:14.resound again. Speaking to MPs at yesterday's meeting, the young girl

:03:15. > :03:18.called us, listen to me, help the girls, help those in captivity, I am

:03:19. > :03:22.pleading with you. Let us come together and call this what it is, a

:03:23. > :03:27.genocide. This is about human dignity. You have a responsibility

:03:28. > :03:33.to stop Isis are committing genocide because they are trying to wipe us

:03:34. > :03:37.out. Genocide is an internationally recognised crime defined in 1948

:03:38. > :03:42.Convention on genocide to which we are a signatory as a country, it is

:03:43. > :03:47.an attempt to destroy in whole or in part national, ethnic, racial or

:03:48. > :03:52.religious groups by killing, causing seriously bodily or mental harm, or

:03:53. > :03:57.conditions casually to the bring about destruction of the group or

:03:58. > :04:01.imposing measures intended to prevent or forcibly transferring

:04:02. > :04:05.children. Measures that not every single one of these criteria is

:04:06. > :04:13.satisfied by those two testimonies yesterday. After this, because of

:04:14. > :04:21.the limitation which has been placed upon my time I will not take any

:04:22. > :04:24.further interventions. I thank the honourable lady for giving way and

:04:25. > :04:28.applaud her for bringing this motion to the floor of the House. Talking

:04:29. > :04:33.about using the term genocide, international partners like the

:04:34. > :04:37.United States and the European Parliament have said that the acts

:04:38. > :04:42.committed by Daesh amount to genocide so we should be

:04:43. > :04:47.interpreting it as international law and working with partners in order

:04:48. > :04:55.to defeat that. I absolutely agree. We want to be leading, our country

:04:56. > :04:58.has proud record of assuming that aggressors are brought to justice

:04:59. > :05:06.and in this case, we must do so, too. Yazidi and Christians have been

:05:07. > :05:15.targeted because of their religion and ethnicity, but also other groups

:05:16. > :05:23.such as the gritty. The suffering of these women is replicated by others.

:05:24. > :05:26.I have seen many reports documenting evidence of genocidal atrocities, as

:05:27. > :05:30.I am sure other members have won the office of United Nations High

:05:31. > :05:40.Commissioner for human rights, and others. Thousands of pages recording

:05:41. > :05:44.executions, mass graves, crucifixions, systematic rape,

:05:45. > :05:47.torture of men, women and children, beheadings and other acts of

:05:48. > :05:54.violence so unspeakable there even all seems almost fictional, but it

:05:55. > :05:56.is not. -- The Eagle. Daesh is targeting specific groups precisely

:05:57. > :06:03.because of the characteristics of those groups and it has declared

:06:04. > :06:07.this, it has declared that its acts have genocidal intent. For example

:06:08. > :06:13.through its online magazine, in issue four, it says, it tells its

:06:14. > :06:22.followers, they will be held accountable if the Yazidi people

:06:23. > :06:28.continue to exist. If we do not recognise this as genocide, we might

:06:29. > :06:31.as well reject the genocide commission as a worthless piece of

:06:32. > :06:38.paper. As a consequence of the evidence meticulously collected by

:06:39. > :06:41.NGOs, and activists and the UN, resolutions have been passed around

:06:42. > :06:45.the world condemning the actions of Daesh as genocide. The Council of

:06:46. > :06:50.Europe in January, European Parliament and debris, US House of

:06:51. > :06:53.Representatives in March this year, following which the USA produced a

:06:54. > :06:57.John Kerry an announcement confirming the position of the US

:06:58. > :07:02.government, stating, Daesh is responsible for genocide against

:07:03. > :07:09.groups in areas under its control, including Yazidi poor, Christians

:07:10. > :07:13.and Shia Muslims. They have done this by ideology and by actions. If

:07:14. > :07:19.this is the position of the US government, why is it not the

:07:20. > :07:23.position of our own? In answer to this question, UK Government

:07:24. > :07:25.ministers have repeatedly said, it is long-standing government policy

:07:26. > :07:29.that any judgments on whether genocide has occurred should be a

:07:30. > :07:34.matter for the International judicial system rather than

:07:35. > :07:36.legislators, governments or other non-judicial bodies. In other words,

:07:37. > :07:40.whether this is genocide is a matter whether this is genocide is a matter

:07:41. > :07:43.for the courts, and in this case more specific for the International

:07:44. > :07:48.Criminal Court to decide. And this is the crucial point of this motion,

:07:49. > :07:52.under procedures relating to the ICC, it cannot make that judgment

:07:53. > :07:57.until it is requested to do so and the only way that that can now

:07:58. > :08:00.happen is such a referral is made by the UN Security Council, which the

:08:01. > :08:05.UK Government is a permanent member of stop that is why supporting this

:08:06. > :08:10.motion today is so important. In other words, there was a circular

:08:11. > :08:14.argument here, at present, a stalemate, which this Parliament

:08:15. > :08:17.needs to break. The motion before this House today calls upon us as

:08:18. > :08:22.members of the UK Parliament to make a declaration of genocide and then

:08:23. > :08:25.ask the UK Government to repair this to the UN Security Council, so that

:08:26. > :08:30.the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court can

:08:31. > :08:36.take action. That prosecutor has already said as long as a year ago

:08:37. > :08:41.that she stands ready to take action, giving a referral, saying, I

:08:42. > :08:47.would remain profoundly concerned by the situation and want to emphasise

:08:48. > :08:50.our collective duty as a global community to respond to the plight

:08:51. > :08:56.of victims whose rights and dignity have been violated. Isis continues

:08:57. > :08:58.to spread terror on a massive scale in the territories it occupies. The

:08:59. > :09:02.international community pledge that appalling crimes that deeply shocked

:09:03. > :09:09.the conscious of humanity must not go unpunished. As prosecutor of the

:09:10. > :09:14.ICC, I stand ready to the play my part in an independent and impartial

:09:15. > :09:18.manner. Members, can we wait any longer whilst such suffering

:09:19. > :09:22.continues, before doing all we can to Act against it? I am of course

:09:23. > :09:27.are aware that the UK Government is involved in assertively tackling the

:09:28. > :09:31.aggression of Daesh and is poisoned ideology, not least in air strikes,

:09:32. > :09:35.cutting off finance, providing counterterrorism expertise,

:09:36. > :09:38.humanitarian aid and information gathering, and I commend the

:09:39. > :09:42.government for this, but surely there can be no good reason for

:09:43. > :09:48.delaying the additional step of referring this to the UN Security

:09:49. > :09:51.Council, with a view to conferring jurisdiction on the International

:09:52. > :09:56.Criminal Court, to start its own unique procedures to bring the

:09:57. > :10:00.perpetrators to justice. Some may ask what difference this will really

:10:01. > :10:09.make. It will make a real difference. Recognition of genocide

:10:10. > :10:14.on the part of the international community to prevent, punish. It

:10:15. > :10:19.makes it more likely that individuals will be punished. It is

:10:20. > :10:24.often followed why stronger international responses against the

:10:25. > :10:27.atrocities found in the provision of greater help for the survivors with

:10:28. > :10:32.their urgent needs. Much needed in this case. It can facilitate

:10:33. > :10:35.reparations for survivors, recognising the actions of Daesh as

:10:36. > :10:39.genocide should inject further momentum into the international

:10:40. > :10:45.efforts to stop the killings. It would hopefully lead to active

:10:46. > :10:49.safeguarding of those members of religious minorities on the ground,

:10:50. > :10:54.whose lives and very communities currently hang in the balance. It

:10:55. > :10:57.will make new recruits including those from the UK think twice about

:10:58. > :11:04.joining, given the ramifications of being caught. Recognition of

:11:05. > :11:07.genocide is not the only final action of the international

:11:08. > :11:11.community but it is a crucial step, and one that we should make today. I

:11:12. > :11:16.recognise that conferring the jurisdiction on the ICC require

:11:17. > :11:19.support of other Security Council members, but that should not stop

:11:20. > :11:24.our country from initiating this process. I will also add that there

:11:25. > :11:29.is precedent for the Security Council, with a fact-finding

:11:30. > :11:32.committee of experts so that all current evidence can be assessed and

:11:33. > :11:36.the evidence collected, and if the mission is passed today I appeal to

:11:37. > :11:40.the government also to consider this recommendation at the Security

:11:41. > :11:45.Council. Members, I repeat, some may ask, what difference this will

:11:46. > :11:52.really make. I leave the final words to the young girl, to her aid could

:11:53. > :11:54.make all the difference in the world. When I asked her yesterday

:11:55. > :12:04.what her hopes were for the future, she replied," to see justice done

:12:05. > :12:08.for my people." I ask you to support this motion. In the final analysis

:12:09. > :12:14.it is about doing justice and about seeing justice being done. The

:12:15. > :12:20.question is as on the order paper, Stephen Twigg. Can I first of all

:12:21. > :12:23.refer to my relevant entry in the register of members interests,

:12:24. > :12:29.between 2005-10 I had the privilege to work for a body which works to

:12:30. > :12:34.commemorate and prevent genocide. It is a great leisure to follow the

:12:35. > :12:37.honourable lady who is editing this member of this House come of the

:12:38. > :12:41.international developer committee and a campaigner on human rights in

:12:42. > :12:44.particular, the rights of religious and other minorities, and they want

:12:45. > :12:48.to agree first of all with everything she said and to

:12:49. > :12:53.demonstrate the very strong cross- party support there is for what she

:12:54. > :12:55.said in the House today. Can I, like her, thank the backbench business

:12:56. > :13:02.committee for allowing this debate to happen and I hope that she will

:13:03. > :13:06.Act so that we can send a strong message from all parties to this

:13:07. > :13:09.House that we believe that what is happening is a genocide and we

:13:10. > :13:13.believe that the international system has a duty and responsibility

:13:14. > :13:18.to Act in these circumstances. In both Iraq and Syria, ethnic and

:13:19. > :13:23.other minorities have been in severe danger since the emergence of Daesh.

:13:24. > :13:26.We have seen this once diverse region witnessing mass killings,

:13:27. > :13:31.rapes, forced conversions, the destruction of shrines, temples and

:13:32. > :13:34.churches in the region. The honourable lady spoke about the

:13:35. > :13:38.meeting she convened and chaired last night and I listened to the

:13:39. > :13:43.goal, a very powerful speech from a young woman who has been through

:13:44. > :13:47.hell, has been through something that no young women or young person

:13:48. > :13:50.should have to go through and sadly, for many of us, that was not the

:13:51. > :13:53.first time we have heard that estimate. Earlier this year there

:13:54. > :13:57.was a meeting convened by the honourable gentleman, the member for

:13:58. > :14:01.Newark, who chairs the all-party group on the prevention of genocide

:14:02. > :14:08.and the member for Argyll and Bute, well we had from another teenage

:14:09. > :14:11.Yazidi woman, Nadia, who had in captured and imprisoned by Daesh,

:14:12. > :14:15.and she told us that she had been beaten, tortured, raped, but

:14:16. > :14:19.thankfully, she had managed to escape. Her story shocked us in the

:14:20. > :14:24.same way that the story from the goal last night shoppers. Since

:14:25. > :14:28.Nadia's is scared she has spoken here and that the UN, she has spoken

:14:29. > :14:34.with governments, including our own, simply to raise awareness about the

:14:35. > :14:39.plight of the Yazidi people in general and Yazidi women, in

:14:40. > :14:43.particular. Can I join with the comments about the importance of

:14:44. > :14:50.this speech? Of this debate. Surely to goodness, making these poor

:14:51. > :14:54.woman, cruel people, go through this again by having to give testimony,

:14:55. > :14:58.having to persuade organisations that should not need this level of

:14:59. > :15:01.persuasion, they should see what is happening already without having to

:15:02. > :15:04.help people being put through the pain of repeating it again and

:15:05. > :15:09.again. Surely we should not need that. My Honourable Friend is

:15:10. > :15:15.absolutely right. The evidence is there. But human testimony gives an

:15:16. > :15:23.important additional dye mentioned that is, but the additional evidence

:15:24. > :15:27.is well-documented. 3000 Yazidi women are being held against their

:15:28. > :15:33.will by Daesh. The history of this region should lead us to learn some

:15:34. > :15:37.lessons today. 100 years ago, a century ago, the Armenians and

:15:38. > :15:43.Syrians suffered a genocide and I absolutely agree with the point is

:15:44. > :15:46.the honourable lady made of Daesh towards the Yazidi and Christians

:15:47. > :15:53.and other minorities, amounting to genocide. Of course I will give way.

:15:54. > :15:58.I fully intend to support the vote for this motion because it is an

:15:59. > :16:04.important motion input to the House. Two weeks ago I was in Syria and I

:16:05. > :16:06.interviewed roughly 23, 24 people who have suffered from various

:16:07. > :16:11.groups. The only point I would make in this debate, many of them

:16:12. > :16:14.Christians and some of them Alawites, it was not just Daesh

:16:15. > :16:19.doing it, it was IS and their allies. And I think we should

:16:20. > :16:25.remember that when we bring this to the international court. The

:16:26. > :16:27.honourable gentleman makes an extremely important point and I herb

:16:28. > :16:32.that is something that could be elaborated upon during this debate.

:16:33. > :16:38.I will give way, that will be my last time. I hope, the honourable

:16:39. > :16:46.lady does bring this issue to a vote. We should name this for what

:16:47. > :16:51.it is. The suffering so tragically described at the hands of Daesh by

:16:52. > :16:56.the Yazidi people is being experienced at the hands of the

:16:57. > :17:01.Assad regime. Does My Honourable Friend agree that if we only focus

:17:02. > :17:05.on Daesh, we do a great disservice to those who are also experiencing

:17:06. > :17:08.the horror of the Assad regime and their suffering, pick out just as

:17:09. > :17:13.much and did a man as much attention from this woman. I certainly agree

:17:14. > :17:21.with My Honourable Friend that the Assad regime has unleashed appalling

:17:22. > :17:25.terra on its people and it is absolutely right that we have that

:17:26. > :17:30.focus during debates in this House before including the debate on the

:17:31. > :17:34.military intervention with regard to Syria. I've visited refugees in

:17:35. > :17:38.Jordan and heard first-hand from them the horror of what they had

:17:39. > :17:43.experienced, usually at the hands of the Syrian regime, sometimes at the

:17:44. > :17:47.hands of IS and their allies, but the motion today is a focused motion

:17:48. > :17:51.that we can all support and unite around. It is not in any way detract

:17:52. > :17:57.from the importance of continuing to raise those issues about the Assad

:17:58. > :18:03.regime and it's abuses. On the question of this being a genocide,

:18:04. > :18:07.let us be clear that Daesh given the Yazidi people choice of forced

:18:08. > :18:11.conversion, death or exiled. I think that does amount to destruction of

:18:12. > :18:14.the foundations of the life of a group of people. The United Nations

:18:15. > :18:20.International Criminal Tribunal have recognised both sexual violence and

:18:21. > :18:26.slavery, both of which as we know are prevalent in the actions of

:18:27. > :18:32.Daesh towards the Yazidis as part of a genocidal process. I want is a

:18:33. > :18:36.little bit about specific issue, about the importance of

:18:37. > :18:39.documentation. An estimated 25 mass graves have been discovered in

:18:40. > :18:45.Sinjar in northern Iraq, containing the mortal remains of Yazidi people

:18:46. > :18:49.murdered by Daesh in August, 2014. These graves are not being properly

:18:50. > :18:55.protected. They are being disturbed I have a righty or people including,

:18:56. > :18:59.perfectly understandably, relatives of the victims, local people,

:19:00. > :19:03.sometimes journalists, but there's a risk that that is compromising

:19:04. > :19:07.evidence and therefore ability to identify the victims of Daesh.

:19:08. > :19:11.Yazidi campaign groups have called for the protection of the grave and

:19:12. > :19:14.analysis of the mortal remains that they contain, and an international

:19:15. > :19:20.response is needed on this matter that is not yet materialised. The US

:19:21. > :19:23.Holocaust Museum has recognised a genocide designation, partly in

:19:24. > :19:30.order to raise public awareness, because as they put it, historical

:19:31. > :19:32.memory is a tool presents on. The International commission on missing

:19:33. > :19:36.persons is the leading organisation dedicated to addressing the tracing

:19:37. > :19:42.of people missing in the aftermath of armed conflict. The Iraqi

:19:43. > :19:46.government in the aftermath of the war in Iraq set up the Human Rights

:19:47. > :19:50.Ministry with a remit to consider policy towards mass graves but

:19:51. > :19:55.unfortunately that ministry has been dissolved. It seems to me clear that

:19:56. > :19:59.the international commission on missing persons is the organisation

:20:00. > :20:01.that should be responding to the challenge in Sinjar, both to

:20:02. > :20:07.identify the victims and examine the mass graves in order to preserve

:20:08. > :20:13.evidence. I would like to ask the Minister, when he responds to this

:20:14. > :20:17.debate today to address this issue. The UK has a good track record of

:20:18. > :20:20.working with this body, for example in Bosnia, and will they give an

:20:21. > :20:24.undertaking today to work with them and the Iraqi government to help

:20:25. > :20:31.protect these mass graves, because it is so important, that these

:20:32. > :20:33.crimes are properly documented, in particular if this motion succeeds,

:20:34. > :20:37.and there is a reference to the United Nations with regard to

:20:38. > :20:40.genocide, but also for the families of the victims, so that they can

:20:41. > :20:50.identify the victims as accurately as possible. As part of that. But I

:20:51. > :20:57.am delighted to give way. As one who collected evidence of Iraqi war

:20:58. > :21:05.crimes for an organisation called indict, many thousands still remain

:21:06. > :21:11.unexcavated in mass graves in Iraq, because of security threats. It is

:21:12. > :21:19.important to protect the mass graves because the evidence is contained

:21:20. > :21:23.then. -- therein. I pay tribute to her decades of work on this, is

:21:24. > :21:27.absolutely crucial and important issue. In conclusion, as part of

:21:28. > :21:31.Allah Judy to recognise the genocide, we should prioritise

:21:32. > :21:36.protecting the evidence which will help bring those guilty of genocide

:21:37. > :21:41.to justice and to dignify the victims of these awful, awful

:21:42. > :21:44.crimes. I support this motion. I believe the honourable lady has made

:21:45. > :21:48.a very powerful case for why this House should urge the government to

:21:49. > :21:53.refer this matter to the United Nations. I understand the

:21:54. > :21:57.government's position. I raised it with the Prime Minister a few weeks

:21:58. > :21:59.ago, that the way that we recognise genocide is different to the way

:22:00. > :22:04.that the Americans do, and the honourable lady has come up with an

:22:05. > :22:08.intelligent and ingenious way of ensuring that we can have a positive

:22:09. > :22:12.response from the government today, but also an opportunity for this as

:22:13. > :22:17.a Parliament on a cross-party basis to send out a very powerful message.

:22:18. > :22:19.And the member for Newcastle North reminded us that, every year in

:22:20. > :22:25.January, we commemorate the Nazi or the cost, we have Holocaust Memorial

:22:26. > :22:32.Day, because the message after the Holocaust at the end of the Second

:22:33. > :22:37.World War was, "Never again". Now, we know, tragically, since the end

:22:38. > :22:42.of the Second World War, we've had Cambodia, we have had grander, and

:22:43. > :22:46.now we have what is happening with Daesh's actions against the Yazidi

:22:47. > :22:51.people and others. We have an opportunity to heed that warning

:22:52. > :22:56.from the Holocaust, never again, to send a message to our government but

:22:57. > :22:59.also to Daesh and to the wider international community. We

:23:00. > :23:00.recognise this as genocide and we want action taken against the

:23:01. > :23:11.perpetrators of that genocide. Derrick Thomas. Thank you, Madam

:23:12. > :23:18.Deputy Speaker. I support the motion that this house believes Yazidis are

:23:19. > :23:22.suffering genocide at the hands of Daesh. I would like to pay

:23:23. > :23:28.particular tribute to my honourable friend for securing this backbench

:23:29. > :23:33.debate. It is profoundly disturbing that people in Iraq and Syria are

:23:34. > :23:38.being attacked for the long into different religious and ethnic

:23:39. > :23:41.groups. Daesh has committed torture, mass murder, sexual abuse,

:23:42. > :23:47.systematic rape and sexual enslavement of women and girls.

:23:48. > :23:53.Their official propaganda videos document its specific intent to

:23:54. > :23:58.destroy Christian and Yazidi groups in Syria and Iraq. I attended the

:23:59. > :24:02.meeting yesterday evening and I heard along with the many things

:24:03. > :24:06.shared, I heard of former public buildings being used to imprison

:24:07. > :24:15.girls as young as nine and women for systematic rape and just to satisfy

:24:16. > :24:22.their sexual lust... I'm grateful, would he agree that some of the

:24:23. > :24:25.women and girls abducted and who escaped face stigma and

:24:26. > :24:28.discrimination when they return and actually these women and girls are

:24:29. > :24:34.victims so they should be given all the support and help they deserve

:24:35. > :24:38.and need to move on in life and to bring the perpetrators to justice as

:24:39. > :24:43.well? I welcome the intervention. I was left after that evening meeting

:24:44. > :24:46.with that very thought. How do these girls and women rebuild their lives

:24:47. > :24:52.and somehow find a place in society where they can live full and

:24:53. > :24:56.enriched lives? The word that is needed to be done to support them is

:24:57. > :25:00.quite considerable. The UK has a rich tradition of helping and

:25:01. > :25:04.advocating on the half of the world Palace most vulnerable people.

:25:05. > :25:08.Whenever a crisis or disaster occurs, the UK Government and

:25:09. > :25:12.British people are quick to respond and lead the charge providing

:25:13. > :25:16.humanitarian aid and financial assistance quickly. Why is it, then,

:25:17. > :25:19.that despite being one of the five permanent members of the UN Security

:25:20. > :25:22.Council and having the responsibility of a unique role in

:25:23. > :25:27.the international community a week are being slow and appear reluctant

:25:28. > :25:32.to trigger legal mechanisms that exist within the international

:25:33. > :25:39.judicial system. The legal designation of genocide against

:25:40. > :25:43.Daesh relies firstly an action from the UN Security Council and

:25:44. > :25:47.therefore requires the UK Government to take some leadership and an

:25:48. > :25:50.honest position in this situation. I have heard on a number of occasions

:25:51. > :25:56.that this Government sees the UK has a world leader on human rights. This

:25:57. > :26:00.status risks being undermined by the apparent lack of willingness to

:26:01. > :26:05.recognise what is going on in Iraq and Syria as genocide and creating

:26:06. > :26:09.the environment where these acts can be prevented and the perpetrators

:26:10. > :26:14.punished. Already the US as we have heard Secretary of State John Kerry,

:26:15. > :26:17.the US House of Representatives and the European Parliament and the

:26:18. > :26:22.Parliamentary assembly of the Council of Europe have all described

:26:23. > :26:27.Isis atrocities as genocide. It is time the UK joins these countries to

:26:28. > :26:48.politically recognise these are atrocities as such. Thank you

:26:49. > :26:54.to the member. The member makes very good points and it is good to hear

:26:55. > :26:56.them. Does he agree with me that for crimes like these, the principle of

:26:57. > :26:58.universal jurisdiction should apply for crimes that are so heinous

:26:59. > :27:00.against humanity that all states should take responsibility? I accept

:27:01. > :27:03.that and my next point, I supported military action in Syria because our

:27:04. > :27:10.Armed Forces are able to restrict the capability of Daesh and the evil

:27:11. > :27:14.they are spouse. My speech was also about achieving a political solution

:27:15. > :27:17.in this area of the Middle East. Surely recognising the behaviour of

:27:18. > :27:23.Daesh against minority groups that is well documented and not disputed,

:27:24. > :27:29.as genocide, is an important part of this political solution. One of the

:27:30. > :27:34.things in addition to what the honourable gentleman just said over

:27:35. > :27:38.there, in terms of reconstruction, part of that reconstruction should

:27:39. > :27:41.be the rehabilitation of these women and some form of compensation for

:27:42. > :27:46.them and their families. As the honourable gentleman said earlier,

:27:47. > :27:48.the stigma in some of those communities is therefore a lifetime

:27:49. > :27:55.and you won't get rid of it. It's very important, particularly in

:27:56. > :28:01.North Korea and other parts of the world as well. That intervention,

:28:02. > :28:06.the reality is and a great challenge facing the international community

:28:07. > :28:12.is, how do we have secured peace in Syria and Iraq, how do we help

:28:13. > :28:15.people rebuild their own country? I would suggest there will be many

:28:16. > :28:18.people who will never be able to move back, simply because of the

:28:19. > :28:24.memories and the horrors that they have. As an international community,

:28:25. > :28:29.we need to do all we can to support these people wherever they may end

:28:30. > :28:32.up building their lives. The British people are horrified by what they

:28:33. > :28:37.hear and see regarding the treatment of these minority groups in Syria

:28:38. > :28:41.and Iraq. They rightfully expect that this house use whatever tools

:28:42. > :28:45.are available to us to work to bring this to an end and achieve peace in

:28:46. > :28:49.this troubled part of the world. Madam Deputy Speaker, a tool

:28:50. > :28:55.available to us today is to recognise these evil acts as

:28:56. > :29:00.genocide and to use our position as a permanent member of the UN

:29:01. > :29:07.Security Council so that this can be investigated by the European Court.

:29:08. > :29:11.People are being brutalised, raped and murdered. We have a moral

:29:12. > :29:17.responsibility to seek justice for these people. Thank you, Madam

:29:18. > :29:20.Deputy Speaker. May I join others in congratulating the honourable member

:29:21. > :29:24.for securing this debate, for her individual will work in this area

:29:25. > :29:29.and for the way she opened the debate today. I apologise that I

:29:30. > :29:34.missed the first few minutes of the speech but I am also grateful to her

:29:35. > :29:38.for organising the session yesterday that every Speaker has today

:29:39. > :29:45.referred to so far with its harrowing testimony of the horrors

:29:46. > :29:47.being inflicted by Daesh in Iraq and Syria on people whose religious

:29:48. > :29:53.outlook and faith is different to their heirs. I think it is very

:29:54. > :29:58.difficult, Madam Deputy Speaker, to deny that what is going on meets the

:29:59. > :30:04.test for genocide. Of course the bar is set high and it is right that it

:30:05. > :30:06.should be but large numbers of Yazidis and Christians and Shia

:30:07. > :30:14.Muslims have been killed. I honourable friend for West Derby was

:30:15. > :30:18.right to point out that it does meet the test set out in the 1948

:30:19. > :30:24.genocide convention that this is with intent to destroy in whole or

:30:25. > :30:29.in part a national ethnic, racial or religious group. It is clear that

:30:30. > :30:33.that is what Daesh is seeking to do. Pope Francis I think was right to

:30:34. > :30:39.speak last year of the killing of Christians in the Middle East as

:30:40. > :30:43.genocide. We have heard the US Secretary of State and the US

:30:44. > :30:46.Congress have both now last month recognised what is happening as

:30:47. > :30:58.genocide and I believe that we should do so as well. We understand

:30:59. > :31:02.that the Government is likely to argue that it is not for parliament

:31:03. > :31:05.but the judiciary to make the determination, but what is not clear

:31:06. > :31:08.to me and perhaps the Minister can explain this to us is what is the

:31:09. > :31:14.trigger for judicial action that could lead to the determination that

:31:15. > :31:17.I think all of us share that genocide is under way and I very

:31:18. > :31:24.much hope the house will agree with this motion, so that the Government

:31:25. > :31:28.can make the recommendation that the honourable member is arguing for. My

:31:29. > :31:35.honourable friend, that is a very interesting question. If we look at

:31:36. > :31:38.the Nuremberg court, it was the allies that set those courts up, so

:31:39. > :31:42.the Government can in actual fact get together and do something about

:31:43. > :31:47.that. This is absolutely right. It isn't clear to me, if the Government

:31:48. > :31:52.doesn't do it, how it can happen in the UK. We heard from the young

:31:53. > :31:55.woman last night who has been referred to about the way that she

:31:56. > :32:03.saw her father and her brothers being killed simply for being

:32:04. > :32:08.Yazidis, herself raped and enslaved. She was very clear in her evidence

:32:09. > :32:12.that what was going on was genocide of Yazidis and also of Christians.

:32:13. > :32:16.She made that point clearly, Christians were included in this

:32:17. > :32:22.genocide as well. It's certainly the case that Shia Muslims have also

:32:23. > :32:25.been that case -- space victims of genocide, as US Secretary of State

:32:26. > :32:31.John Kerry has pointed out. Yes, I will. I thank the honourable

:32:32. > :32:37.gentleman in giving way. When he says Shia Muslims have also been

:32:38. > :32:40.killed by Daesh, does he also agree that Daesh itself has no religion,

:32:41. > :32:47.it kills Muslims as well who stand in its way of its warped ideology.

:32:48. > :32:50.Whatever your face, Muslim or non-Moslem, if you stand in their

:32:51. > :32:53.way they will kill you. I think the honourable gentleman is right but I

:32:54. > :33:00.think it's clear from what has happened that Shia Muslims have been

:33:01. > :33:05.singled out. For example, 600 in a prison just north of most all they

:33:06. > :33:09.were picked out from the rest of the inmates because they were Shia

:33:10. > :33:14.Muslims and they were simply machine-gunned one by one. -- just

:33:15. > :33:18.north of Mosul. I hope we will make a clear statement today that this is

:33:19. > :33:25.genocide, both to express solidarity with Yazidis, Christians and Shia

:33:26. > :33:30.Muslims who are the victims of the horrifying brutality under way but

:33:31. > :33:34.also to make clear our intention is that those responsible must in due

:33:35. > :33:37.course face prosecution and they're just punishment for what they have

:33:38. > :33:43.done. I would like Madam Deputy Speaker to make some observations on

:33:44. > :33:47.how we deal with the commitment that we all espouse in this house to

:33:48. > :33:53.religious freedom. I recognise and pay tribute to the work of past and

:33:54. > :33:57.current ministers in this area but I think we should be doing more.

:33:58. > :34:03.Others are doing more and I think we should as well. I want to commend to

:34:04. > :34:08.the Minister and idea that was actually in the Labour Party

:34:09. > :34:11.election manifesto for the general election last year, that the

:34:12. > :34:17.Government should appoint a global envoy for religious freedom, a

:34:18. > :34:24.person who it is suggested would have reported directly to the Prime

:34:25. > :34:26.Minister, and also establish a multi-faith advisory Council on

:34:27. > :34:30.religious freedom within the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I think

:34:31. > :34:36.that would be an important way for us to acknowledge and publicly

:34:37. > :34:42.commit to the importance of British influence being wielded on this

:34:43. > :34:49.front in the work of ministers and the Foreign Office around the world.

:34:50. > :34:53.The Canadian Government I think deserves credit for establishing its

:34:54. > :34:57.office of religious freedom. I think it's had a positive impact. I'm very

:34:58. > :35:02.sorry to hear that it's now being wound down. But the US commission on

:35:03. > :35:08.International religious Freedom was established a long time ago, in

:35:09. > :35:11.1998. That, I think, is an attractive model, with commissioners

:35:12. > :35:14.appointed by the President and by the leadership of both political

:35:15. > :35:19.parties in the Senate and the House of Representatives and that

:35:20. > :35:28.commission called last December for the US Government to designate

:35:29. > :35:31.Christian, Yazidi and other communities of Iraq and Syria as

:35:32. > :35:41.victims of genocide by Isil. Last month, as we have heard, it welcomed

:35:42. > :35:46.the state-- the State Department's intervention. The honourable

:35:47. > :35:51.gentleman is making a very good case and iron Tiley support this motion.

:35:52. > :35:56.It is clear that Isis are using rape as a strategic ribbon of war are not

:35:57. > :36:08.only of ethnic cleansing but an unthinkable form of conversion. One

:36:09. > :36:12.victim stated recalling hearing Isis saying that one woman will become a

:36:13. > :36:19.fighter is ten Isis fighters rape her. Will the honourable gentleman

:36:20. > :36:24.help in recommending gathering evidence so that these crimes do not

:36:25. > :36:30.go unpunished? I gladly support the call the honourable member has made.

:36:31. > :36:34.The legislation in the US which created that commission also

:36:35. > :36:39.mandated the State Department to prepare an annual report on

:36:40. > :36:43.International religious Freedom. The last one was published just a year

:36:44. > :36:56.ago and I imagine we are about to see the next one in the next two or

:36:57. > :37:05.three weeks. That means that the US -- US Government have a consistent

:37:06. > :37:08.effort to wield religious freedom around the world. We do it in a much

:37:09. > :37:11.more ad hoc way and I think we should do it in a much more

:37:12. > :37:18.consistent way as the US example has demonstrated. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:37:19. > :37:22.I hope the house will be united to support the call that the honourable

:37:23. > :37:27.member made in opening this debate that what is happening to

:37:28. > :37:34.Christians, Yazidis, Shia Muslims in Iraq and Syria is genocide. I hope

:37:35. > :37:35.we will build on that to pick up a consistent commitment to religious

:37:36. > :37:45.freedom around the world. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I

:37:46. > :37:49.pay tribute to my honourable friend, the member for Congleton for her

:37:50. > :37:53.great courage and compassion and also for such a strong lead in this

:37:54. > :37:59.important debate. I also rise to support the motion before the house

:38:00. > :38:04.today for the Government to recognise the appalling acts by

:38:05. > :38:08.Daesh against Yazidis and others as genocide. That being and it bears

:38:09. > :38:12.repetition, acts committed with intent to destroy a whole or in part

:38:13. > :38:18.a national ethnic, racial or religious group. Have we seen

:38:19. > :38:24.evidence of such intent? Yes. Indisputably. In the kidnapping of

:38:25. > :38:28.women and girls tortured and raped, sexual enslavement. Headings,

:38:29. > :38:32.crucifixions and mass graves, and in the assassination of church leaders,

:38:33. > :38:35.desecration and destruction of churches and symmetries of

:38:36. > :38:36.artefacts, and forced convergence and the driving people from their

:38:37. > :38:50.lands. We should remember the plight of the

:38:51. > :38:57.14,000 Yazidi people trapped on the mountainside and the airdrops made

:38:58. > :39:01.to save them from certain death. I heard this to me from a brave,

:39:02. > :39:05.scarred young woman who had escaped her captors yesterday. Testimony

:39:06. > :39:13.comes not just from victims but by the self automation of perpetrators

:39:14. > :39:22.in thought, word and deed. -- self proclamation. How do they lead? They

:39:23. > :39:25.claim credit. -- how do they lead. This government is committed to

:39:26. > :39:30.upholding project supporting human rights the world over and then

:39:31. > :39:35.eating millions in funding to this end. Freedom of religion is a

:39:36. > :39:40.fundamental human right. I understand that what stands between

:39:41. > :39:44.us and formally calling atrocities committed by Daesh's genocide is

:39:45. > :39:49.legal standing. The crime genocide has a legal definition that can only

:39:50. > :39:54.be determined by the International Criminal Court, so what can we do?

:39:55. > :40:02.We can call for evidence to be formally collected. We can call this

:40:03. > :40:06.in by referring it to the UN, to give jurisdiction to the

:40:07. > :40:14.International Criminal Court. Daesh is indiscriminate in those it hurts.

:40:15. > :40:18.It reserves particular cruelty for Yazidi, Christian and other minority

:40:19. > :40:23.ethnic groups. How can we support these people in this moment? We can

:40:24. > :40:31.call their suffering for what it is, genocide. Thank you very much

:40:32. > :40:36.indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was particularly struck by the

:40:37. > :40:40.contribution made by the member for East Ham, and if we come to a point

:40:41. > :40:47.in global envoy may I suggest one name early on in that. He held a

:40:48. > :40:51.similar position under Tony Blair and I can think of no one better

:40:52. > :40:55.qualified. There has been much praise already given to the

:40:56. > :41:00.honourable lady, the member for Congleton, but I think that many of

:41:01. > :41:04.us should place on record that in a short time that the honourable lady

:41:05. > :41:07.has been in this House, she has one for herself a reputation for great

:41:08. > :41:13.courage, the termination, as a defender of the week, of the poor,

:41:14. > :41:19.and of the defenceless. She has earned a great reputation and if I

:41:20. > :41:22.may say, ably followed by My Honourable Friend, the member for

:41:23. > :41:26.Strangford, and has done an enormous amount of good with this and it is

:41:27. > :41:32.an honour to be speaking in a debate instigated by the honourable lady.

:41:33. > :41:35.I'm glad to see two of the more humane government ministers on the

:41:36. > :41:39.Treasury bench and I am confident that we will respond in a way that

:41:40. > :41:45.reflects the motion that is felt all the way around this Chamber today.

:41:46. > :41:48.When the honourable member for Congleton listed some of the litany

:41:49. > :41:54.of horrors that we heard last night and have heard on so many occasions,

:41:55. > :41:58.for me, the one chilling, almost unbelievably brutal incident that

:41:59. > :42:02.was recounted to me was when a group of captured young men were lined up

:42:03. > :42:08.and made to strip to the waste and then hold their arms up. Those who

:42:09. > :42:13.had no hair under their arms were considered young enough to be taken

:42:14. > :42:16.away and indoctrinated and turned into bombers and Jihadist 's. Those

:42:17. > :42:22.who showed signs of unity and maturity were shot. The fact that

:42:23. > :42:27.anyone in this day and age can take a decision, and action of such utter

:42:28. > :42:34.paternity is almost beyond belief. The fact that they can do it in the

:42:35. > :42:38.name of religion, a religion whose name means "Peace", is unforgivable

:42:39. > :42:43.-- unforgivable and inexcusable. If you think that anyone is out there

:42:44. > :42:49.who thinks that this ghastly nihilist death cult can in any way

:42:50. > :42:53.trial, what a pleasure it is to see the arch in Palm Iraq erected in

:42:54. > :42:58.Trafalgar Square, critical demonstration of our admit that they

:42:59. > :43:04.can crush, destroy, kill, rape and maim, but they will never, ever win.

:43:05. > :43:08.They will not be allowed to win because, if they do, then darkness

:43:09. > :43:11.descends on the earth, then we are in a terrifying place. It is

:43:12. > :43:15.incredibly important to recognise the fact that, although we talked

:43:16. > :43:20.about in this motion, which is extremely well crafted, I don't want

:43:21. > :43:25.to keep over much praise on the honourable lady for Congleton, but

:43:26. > :43:29.this is beautifully phrased and to use this definition is incredibly

:43:30. > :43:37.important. And quite rightly, we concentrate on the horrific

:43:38. > :43:41.circumstances of the Yazidis, but don't forget probably more Muslims

:43:42. > :43:47.have been killed by Daesh than any other religious or ethnic group.

:43:48. > :43:56.These are not only defend or protect their coreligionists. They slaughter

:43:57. > :44:00.indiscriminately. I just wanted to slightly and gently take My

:44:01. > :44:03.Honourable Friend to task in terms of indiscriminately. Yes, in terms

:44:04. > :44:09.of certain groups, they are an discriminate leaky old, but when it

:44:10. > :44:14.comes to Christians and Yazidis, they are absolutely discriminating,

:44:15. > :44:17.because they want to exterminate them and eradicate them from that

:44:18. > :44:21.part of a world or indeed any part of the world. The honourable

:44:22. > :44:27.gentleman quite correctly takes me to task. What I meant was, of course

:44:28. > :44:32.they target specifically, and there is a least one member present who

:44:33. > :44:36.has been in northern Iraq with me and who has broken bread with

:44:37. > :44:41.members of the a Syrian Christian community and has seen the lives

:44:42. > :44:44.they lead, which were always difficult, but actually they were

:44:45. > :44:48.able to live and practice their faith in something approaching

:44:49. > :44:53.peace, even under the dark days of Saddam Hussein. To see those people

:44:54. > :44:56.being hunted down and discriminated against, specifically being

:44:57. > :44:59.slaughtered on the grounds of their faith, on the one hand is so utterly

:45:00. > :45:05.chilling and terrifying, but on the other and, isn't it extraordinary

:45:06. > :45:10.how many of them refuse to recant, refuse to recruit? To actually say,

:45:11. > :45:15.this is our faith. And in some cases to die for that day. That is

:45:16. > :45:19.extraordinary. That is absolute testimony to the courage that still

:45:20. > :45:25.exists. In terms of a specific genocide, yes, the Jewish people,

:45:26. > :45:29.huge Jewish community that was in Iraq, a community that has given so

:45:30. > :45:32.much to this country, that is being specifically hunted down and

:45:33. > :45:37.destroyed. Let's not forget there are whole groups of people who

:45:38. > :45:43.suffer. And we come down to the word, genocide. I have had so many

:45:44. > :45:47.debates on the floor of this House about the Armenian genocide, I call

:45:48. > :45:56.it genocide. I appreciate this House chooses not to call the massacre of

:45:57. > :45:59.almost 2 million Armenian people in 1915 genocide because the word

:46:00. > :46:05.genocide was not formal gated then, but we know that it was genocide. We

:46:06. > :46:08.know that, to deny a group of people who have suffered in that way is a

:46:09. > :46:13.double dissemination, because it is a double death in many ways. Let us

:46:14. > :46:19.call this for what it is. This is genocide. And this must not be

:46:20. > :46:23.allowed to triumph and to win, so what can we do in this House? Yes,

:46:24. > :46:28.of course, we must make reference to the UN, but what I would like, is to

:46:29. > :46:32.actually speak beyond this House for a moment. We are not in a

:46:33. > :46:36.hermetically sealed bubble here, we are the sounding board of the

:46:37. > :46:40.nation. There are people watching and listening to us, and it is

:46:41. > :46:44.possible that somewhere in the dark laces of our cities and towns, there

:46:45. > :46:50.are people who are tempted by this death cult. There are people who see

:46:51. > :46:56.maybe it'll excuse their own inadequacies and failures, this idea

:46:57. > :47:02.that they can go and die gloriously for this twisted philosophy. I would

:47:03. > :47:06.like to speak outside this Chamber. Is anyone watching who thinks that

:47:07. > :47:13.the great religion of Islam is calling you to go and slaughter

:47:14. > :47:18.children, unborn babies, to rape, loot and murder in this way, then

:47:19. > :47:26.read the holy Koran, read the holy book. You will not find those words

:47:27. > :47:29.in that book. If there's anyone out there huddled away in dark places

:47:30. > :47:37.who feels tempted for a moment to leave this country, this city, our

:47:38. > :47:41.community, to go there, too die but to kill before you die, please,

:47:42. > :47:46.please think. You have the gift of life at the present time. Hold that

:47:47. > :47:52.gift of life. It is too precious to throw away. As is the life of

:47:53. > :48:00.others. Their lives matter just as much. And this community, the

:48:01. > :48:05.Christian community, the Muslim community, the Yazidis, the Jews,

:48:06. > :48:09.why on earth are they being persecuted in this way? What have

:48:10. > :48:15.they done to bring this Armageddon down upon their heads? They have not

:48:16. > :48:18.threatened in any way forced conversions against people who

:48:19. > :48:25.subscribe to the Isis- Daesh philosophy. This is a war of

:48:26. > :48:31.aggression. This is a war that has to be described by the one word, the

:48:32. > :48:37.only word that describes it today. That word is genocide. This House

:48:38. > :48:41.must speak, not just to fellow legislators, not just to the UN but

:48:42. > :48:46.to all those people out there who are thinking about this issue and

:48:47. > :48:50.might even be remotely tempted. You are considering moving into an area

:48:51. > :48:54.so dark and so deep and so desperate that only the worst and most

:48:55. > :49:00.serious, the word that describes the ultimate crime, only that one single

:49:01. > :49:05.word accurately describes the full horror of what is happening here to

:49:06. > :49:10.these communities in Syria and in Iraq. Madam Deputy Speaker, we all

:49:11. > :49:16.know what that word is. Let us be united here, in this House, and

:49:17. > :49:23.hopefully outside as well, and say, what is happening is genocide, and

:49:24. > :49:28.has to be recognised as such. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I

:49:29. > :49:35.appreciate the contributions made in this debate, specially from the

:49:36. > :49:39.honourable gentleman for Ealing North, a very powerful case having

:49:40. > :49:43.been made. I would like to thank the backbench business committee for

:49:44. > :49:46.securing this debate and My Honourable Friend the member for

:49:47. > :49:52.Congleton. This recognition that what we are seeing in parts of Syria

:49:53. > :49:57.and Iraq, is that it is the genocide of the Yazidis, Christians and other

:49:58. > :50:01.minorities. As we debate the nature of what is going on in Iraq and

:50:02. > :50:05.Syria, we must understand the nature of the organisation perpetrating

:50:06. > :50:10.these crimes. The followers, the members of Daesh have a particular

:50:11. > :50:14.interpretation of Islam which they use to attack those who do not

:50:15. > :50:17.subscribe to the same religion or interpretation of their religion.

:50:18. > :50:24.This means that in addition to the targeted executions of Yazidis,

:50:25. > :50:31.Christians, Shia Muslims are killed and persecuted, as are many Sunni

:50:32. > :50:34.Muslims. When the Sinjar disaster happened, 200,000 Yazidis were

:50:35. > :50:40.driven from their homes. 40,000 of them were trapped on Mount Sinjar,

:50:41. > :50:44.where they faced either slaughter by Daesh if they came down, or

:50:45. > :50:53.dehydration and death if they remained. Christians in Syria, the

:50:54. > :51:00.number dropped from 2 million to 1 million and from 1.4 million to

:51:01. > :51:04.under 260,000 in Iraq. Daesh is seeking to create a caliphate of

:51:05. > :51:12.those who subscribe.... Able give way. -- I will give way. I would

:51:13. > :51:17.like to pay tribute to the honourable lady, the member for

:51:18. > :51:23.Congleton. The figures he has cited are examples of why Christianity is

:51:24. > :51:28.dying in its cradle, and why so many constituents who are Christians have

:51:29. > :51:35.contacted us about this genocide. This is where many people in Britain

:51:36. > :51:40.recognise this to be a genocide. I appreciate many, if not all members

:51:41. > :51:47.in This Place at the moment, agree with those of the British people.

:51:48. > :51:54.The question of what they would deem as the caliphate, and persecution of

:51:55. > :51:59.those who do not fit into that vision. We have seen systematic

:52:00. > :52:06.torture, enslavement, rape and murder of groups solely due to their

:52:07. > :52:10.religious identity. The desire to establish their caliphate in the

:52:11. > :52:14.territory they hold, they are intending to draw other Muslims from

:52:15. > :52:21.across the region, Europe and beyond. It is clear that they are an

:52:22. > :52:25.expansionist organisation that has far greater territorial ambitions

:52:26. > :52:31.than to hold onto land they currently have, so given the

:52:32. > :52:34.opportunity to take more land and subject more people to this

:52:35. > :52:42.systematic persecution and killing that we have become familiar with. I

:52:43. > :52:45.thank the honourable gentleman for giving way. He is making a very

:52:46. > :52:50.powerful speech. Would he agree that the issue there is some of the

:52:51. > :52:55.hallmarks of that faced 75 years ago and that Daesh is like National

:52:56. > :52:59.Socialism. It's not just the movement try to take over one

:53:00. > :53:01.country but to make one race and belief dominant and in doing so,

:53:02. > :53:12.eliminate its opponents. My honourable friend is right to say

:53:13. > :53:19.that in this ideological way people are getting caught up and they are

:53:20. > :53:22.being divorced from their humanity, the humanity they would have been

:53:23. > :53:26.raised with them is the amount -- see around them. More must be done

:53:27. > :53:34.to ensure that we tackle that extremism online and from other

:53:35. > :53:42.sources. The continued existence of Isil, Surrey, the continued

:53:43. > :53:50.existence of Daesh, will continue to be a trauma if this caliphate does

:53:51. > :53:57.take hold and continued to be... You just have to look at Libya where

:53:58. > :54:02.Daesh kidnapped and beheaded 21 Coptic Christians, the anniversary

:54:03. > :54:08.of which was recently observed. Genocide is fundamentally about the

:54:09. > :54:12.committing of acts with intent to destroy, in part or in whole, a

:54:13. > :54:19.national, ethnic, racial or religious group. While the

:54:20. > :54:27.classification of genocide is a a manner of legal rather than

:54:28. > :54:30.political interpretation, it is not merely a debate about semantics.

:54:31. > :54:33.Furthermore, it's important for the British people, through their

:54:34. > :54:38.Government and media, to understand what is going on in the Middle East.

:54:39. > :54:43.Does the term human rights violation really fit what we are seeing

:54:44. > :54:53.happening to Christians in the region? Are the systematic and

:54:54. > :54:58.targeted attacks on the UCD is really OK to refer to as one of a

:54:59. > :55:07.number of Middle Eastern humanitarian crises? While the UN is

:55:08. > :55:12.playing a leading role in responding to Daesh's inhumanity, I joined the

:55:13. > :55:16.voices of many in this house by asking the Government to make a

:55:17. > :55:20.referral to the UN Security Council, a referral from the UN Security

:55:21. > :55:23.Council is the own a means by which the International criminal courts

:55:24. > :55:28.can investigate and prosecute these acts of genocide. Genocide is

:55:29. > :55:35.understood by most to be the gravest crime against humanity and this is

:55:36. > :55:39.what seeing perpetrated by Daesh. We have a responsibility as a

:55:40. > :55:45.democratic nation to apply pressure to the democratic judicial bodies...

:55:46. > :55:54.I will give way. In what is a very impressive speech. Has, like other

:55:55. > :55:59.honourable members of the house, he used the word genocide for the

:56:00. > :56:07.treatment of Christians and Yazidis. Does not he think that it would be

:56:08. > :56:14.helpful and indeed possibly powerful if there were a vote on this motion

:56:15. > :56:21.so that this house confirmed its definition of the treatment of the

:56:22. > :56:26.Christians and UCD is as genocide? I entirely agree and I would like to

:56:27. > :56:29.end by saying how much I agree with the Right honourable gentleman that

:56:30. > :56:37.this house needs to have a vote so that we can make that loud and

:56:38. > :56:42.clear. Natalie Megyeri. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker for allowing me

:56:43. > :56:45.to speak on a motion that is of extreme importance for me

:56:46. > :56:48.personally. I would like to congratulate the honourable member

:56:49. > :56:51.for Congleton for bringing forward the motion to Parliament and further

:56:52. > :56:56.I would like to echo her thanks to the work being done in the House of

:56:57. > :57:01.Lords in the last few years to bring this to the attention of the UK

:57:02. > :57:06.population and to us in this place. I would also like to thank the

:57:07. > :57:10.backbench business community for allowing us to have the debate. I

:57:11. > :57:19.started this week writing a speech which would give evidence to the

:57:20. > :57:23.definition of why this was a genocide. But I think that that has

:57:24. > :57:27.been covered by the speeches of other members. The honourable member

:57:28. > :57:31.for Liverpool West and Derby, the honourable member for Eastbourne and

:57:32. > :57:35.indeed the honourable member for Congleton in her introductory

:57:36. > :57:39.speech. Though I don't want to focus too much on the definition, I want

:57:40. > :57:44.to talk about my experience and why this is so important to me and why

:57:45. > :57:48.it's so important to us as a country, a humanitarian country, a

:57:49. > :57:53.country that believes in human rights. I have, in the last eight or

:57:54. > :58:03.nine months as a member of Parliament, travelled to Syria, to a

:58:04. > :58:12.region of Iraq and to Turkey. I have been to refugee camps of Yazidi

:58:13. > :58:18.people and refugee camps... I have spoken to many women and men who

:58:19. > :58:27.have been affected by the actions of Daesh. Yazidi women, children who

:58:28. > :58:36.have been impacted, whose lives are demonstrably changed index extra by

:58:37. > :58:40.what has happened to them in their communities -- inexorably. And that

:58:41. > :58:53.experience is what brings me to stand today to speak to the fact

:58:54. > :58:58.that this is genocide. I met women's organisations, an organisation of

:58:59. > :59:02.Kurdish women, not Yazidi women, Kurdish women, Muslims who are

:59:03. > :59:08.working with Yazidi women to try to bring back those women who have been

:59:09. > :59:15.abducted, who have been raped, brutalised. Barbarism. It's been

:59:16. > :59:22.referred to earlier today, those women who have had the worst

:59:23. > :59:25.experiences are ashamed and ashamed to come back into their communities

:59:26. > :59:34.because of what has happened to them. Children from nine, ten years

:59:35. > :59:43.old raped, impregnated, part of a brutal system of demeaning.

:59:44. > :59:50.Religions, of people, of bringing them to... Women together speaking

:59:51. > :59:56.powerfully to us, representatives who were there, telling us that

:59:57. > :00:05.people from the Kurdish movement there were buying back women at

:00:06. > :00:13.auctions, using their resources to bring women back from slavery.

:00:14. > :00:18.Sometimes they were found out. Sometimes Daesh worked out that they

:00:19. > :00:22.were trying to stop their enslavement, buy them back, to free

:00:23. > :00:29.them, and in those cases those women disappeared. These are powerful,

:00:30. > :00:31.powerful stories of what is happening to women and two men in

:00:32. > :00:44.that area. -- to men. But as I wrote my speech

:00:45. > :00:48.in the last few days, I had a perfectly crafted speech and now I

:00:49. > :00:55.speak just freely. But yesterday I listened to the testimony like

:00:56. > :00:59.others who have referred to is of a 15-year-old who came here to give

:01:00. > :01:04.her testimony. She was abducted from her house and, I'm not going to

:01:05. > :01:09.paraphrase, I actually took down her words directly. I'm going to review

:01:10. > :01:15.her testimony to this place, because her voice and the voice of Yazidi

:01:16. > :01:20.women, deserve to be heard in this place. If anyone wants to intervene,

:01:21. > :01:27.do so now because I'm going to read her words. "There Was a knock at our

:01:28. > :01:32.door. We were targeted because our religion and our belief is different

:01:33. > :01:40.from theirs and our humanity is different from theirs. Because we

:01:41. > :01:44.believe... In our religion we do not believe in raped or that innocence

:01:45. > :01:48.should be killed, or that a child should be cut up and his mother

:01:49. > :01:56.forced to eat him. My father and my two brothers were killed in front of

:01:57. > :02:02.me. They took me away from my mother then he grabbed my arm and my leg

:02:03. > :02:06.and then he raped me. He was 32 years old. I was 15. After they

:02:07. > :02:16.raped me, they took my friend and they raped her. I could hear her

:02:17. > :02:19.shouting, "Where is the mercy? Where is the mercy? There must be some

:02:20. > :02:30.mercy in their hearts". They took the men and they killed girls. What

:02:31. > :02:34.does a nine-year-old understand about sex or about rape? What does

:02:35. > :02:41.she do to deserve this? I saw a nine-year old girl raped in front of

:02:42. > :02:45.my own eyes by not one man but several. I saw her die in front of

:02:46. > :02:52.my eyes because her body could not handle the brutality. I saw a

:02:53. > :02:59.two-year-old boy killed and ground into meat and his mother did not

:03:00. > :03:04.know what she was eating. What are they going to do as pregnant

:03:05. > :03:10.children? There is so much brainwashing. Daesh tell you your

:03:11. > :03:15.religion and they brainwash children. They put them in front of

:03:16. > :03:23.their own parents and demand that they killed them. Listen to me. I am

:03:24. > :03:30.begging you. Listen to me. Listen to what I'm telling you. Help us, I beg

:03:31. > :03:35.of you. Listen to you, help the girls who are still in captivity.

:03:36. > :03:42.Let us all stand hand in hand and take a stance. This is a genocide,

:03:43. > :03:47.against Christians, Yazidis and others. This is about dignity, this

:03:48. > :03:52.is about humanity and dignity. If you are a mother, a father, a

:03:53. > :04:00.brother, a sister, a human. Do not close your ears to our pleas will

:04:01. > :04:06.stop I plead you, listen. This is genocide." Thank you, Madam Deputy

:04:07. > :04:10.Speaker. That was a very moving contribution from the member for

:04:11. > :04:14.Glasgow East and I would like to congratulate the member for

:04:15. > :04:18.Congleton forces during this debate. We will conquer your own, break your

:04:19. > :04:23.crosses and enslave your women. If we do not reach that time, our

:04:24. > :04:29.children and grandchildren will reach it and sell your sons at the

:04:30. > :04:32.slave market". That is Daesh. For this death cult, destruction of a

:04:33. > :04:36.way of life and an ideology and set of beliefs that is not theirs is

:04:37. > :04:47.both their ultimate and their sole aim. Daesh ourselves defining

:04:48. > :04:52.genocists. They enslave, they decapitate. Their victims are busy

:04:53. > :04:57.bees, Kurds, Christians. In Syria, the Syrian Centre for policy

:04:58. > :05:00.research estimates that approximately 470,000 people have

:05:01. > :05:03.been killed either directly or indirectly but what is most shocking

:05:04. > :05:07.is that the United Nations has given up putting estimates on the number

:05:08. > :05:15.because it cannot provide verifiable statistics because the numbers are

:05:16. > :05:20.so vast. Millions more have been displaced or lost. Each cowardly act

:05:21. > :05:24.of death and destruction is just that, a cowardly act, but put

:05:25. > :05:31.together they are a reign of terror targeted at a specific group of

:05:32. > :05:34.people, systematic murder, genocide, of the people who form these

:05:35. > :05:39.communities, of the cultural heritage that has tied together

:05:40. > :05:44.three generations of families and believes -- values and believes that

:05:45. > :05:48.define them. I heard first-hand what Daesh do. I was lucky or unlucky

:05:49. > :05:55.enough to meet with a young brave Yazidi woman called Nadia, a meeting

:05:56. > :06:00.that was co-ordinated for the member for Newark for which I must pay

:06:01. > :06:04.credit. She had been taken by Daesh as a sex slave. Her race was

:06:05. > :06:09.justification enough for the horrific way in which her, her

:06:10. > :06:19.family and community were mistreated and destroyed by Daesh. Madam Deputy

:06:20. > :06:23.Speaker, we failed... The death cult of misfits that we face now cannot

:06:24. > :06:28.be allowed to get away with this for any longer. In Iraq and Syria,

:06:29. > :06:31.Daesh's statements have taking credit for the mass murder and

:06:32. > :06:35.persecution of Christians and have shown its clear intent to urge

:06:36. > :06:42.Christian communities from the area that they claim as their own. -- to

:06:43. > :06:45.purge. As a country, we ourselves show a weakness by failing to

:06:46. > :06:50.acknowledge the extent of the persecution against Yazidis,

:06:51. > :06:54.Christians and other ethnic and religious minorities. We are failing

:06:55. > :07:01.the victims of this deliberate and targeted persecution, where race,

:07:02. > :07:07.faith and gender are all the excuse Daesh need to find new and innocent

:07:08. > :07:11.targets for mass murder. If we do not recognise these acts as

:07:12. > :07:15.genocide, we effectively declare that we are not willing to take all

:07:16. > :07:18.action necessary to bring it to an end and to bring the perpetrators to

:07:19. > :07:34.justice that they so deserve. A week after the honourable member

:07:35. > :07:36.brought Nadia to the House of Commons, I was fortunate enough to

:07:37. > :07:41.bring her to the public gallery here. In fact she went there with my

:07:42. > :07:46.wife who incidentally is the daughter of Holocaust survivors.

:07:47. > :07:50.Afterwards she was so grateful and I couldn't understand why she was so

:07:51. > :07:54.grateful to us, but I think it was because she had faith in this house,

:07:55. > :07:59.she genuinely believed that we would do something. We would act to help

:08:00. > :08:02.her and her people. She wasn't one of our jaded constituents, she

:08:03. > :08:05.thought that this house meant something and that we would do

:08:06. > :08:08.something to help her and her people.

:08:09. > :08:22.We have a responsibility, being the August democracy in the world, we

:08:23. > :08:27.have a responsibility to Nadia. This is not a position that a country

:08:28. > :08:29.that is steadfast in its commitment to fairness, freedom and justice

:08:30. > :08:36.should be relaxed about. The practical consequence of the growing

:08:37. > :08:39.these acts genocide is key to preventing the spread of terrorism,

:08:40. > :08:43.preventing the spread of radicalisation and it allows the

:08:44. > :08:49.International commercial tribunal to be set up and try the terrorists

:08:50. > :08:55.committing these Venus acts. Which is why I am supporting this motion

:08:56. > :08:59.this afternoon. I wonder if I can have the liberty of the House to

:09:00. > :09:02.read out a quote from Hansard on 12 April, which had a statement from

:09:03. > :09:06.our very own minister when he was challenged on this issue, and I

:09:07. > :09:11.would like to quote the minister on the 12th of April. His response when

:09:12. > :09:17.he was challenged previously was," I, too, believe that acts of

:09:18. > :09:23.genocide have taken place. I repeat, the Minister is on the record as

:09:24. > :09:28.saying, "I, two, the leader acts of genocide have taken place." I hope

:09:29. > :09:35.that we can move on from that statement, as well. -- believe that

:09:36. > :09:40.acts of. I thank the honourable lady for giving way. Does she, like me,

:09:41. > :09:43.hope that the whole House will be given the opportunity to send a

:09:44. > :09:51.powerful message by voting and being united in that vote and inviting

:09:52. > :09:57.those ministers to vote as well to send such a strong message that what

:09:58. > :10:00.is happening is genocide? The member for mid Dorset makes a powerful

:10:01. > :10:04.statement. I hope that is the case, but also during the cross-party

:10:05. > :10:13.support this debate as witnessed today will also be a very strong

:10:14. > :10:17.message. To explain Rwanda, Diks Lane Nazi persecution. Now it is our

:10:18. > :10:22.turn to decide whether we will have to explain to fugitive generations

:10:23. > :10:28.what we did or did not do against the death cult, Daesh. This

:10:29. > :10:32.historical moment can be a tool prevention but it is rare that

:10:33. > :10:40.society uses it in that way. Let's see the generation that uses it as a

:10:41. > :10:44.tool prevention today. Daesh are currently destroying and rewriting

:10:45. > :10:50.history all at once. Not satisfied with destroying the past and

:10:51. > :10:55.presents of races states and gender, they are destroying the future of

:10:56. > :11:01.this region, too. It is our collective job as a member of the UN

:11:02. > :11:06.family of nations to make sure that these communities are not just of a

:11:07. > :11:16.lot of ink in the story of Daesh. -- blot of ink. The oral member has

:11:17. > :11:20.spoken and I have agreed with every single word that she has said. We

:11:21. > :11:24.have had a fantastic debate. I hope that the government will support

:11:25. > :11:28.this motion, that we can move forward and ensure that action will

:11:29. > :11:32.be taken as a consequence of the debate we are having. Many members

:11:33. > :11:35.of the House have congratulated the honourable lady for Congleton for

:11:36. > :11:39.bringing this motion. She is to be King graduated. We should be so

:11:40. > :11:44.proud that we are debating this matter of such importance in the

:11:45. > :11:47.House today. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have a moral responsibility to

:11:48. > :11:53.speak out against crimes of genocide that have taken place against Chris

:11:54. > :11:56.Jones, Yazidis and other ethnic and religious minorities in Iraq and

:11:57. > :12:00.Syria. We should be exercising that is possible bypassing the boat

:12:01. > :12:04.calling upon the UK Government to make it an immediate referral to the

:12:05. > :12:06.UN Security Council to grant the International Criminal Court the

:12:07. > :12:11.mandate to bring the perpetrators to justice. As the honourable member

:12:12. > :12:15.for Torbay reminded the House, the Allied governments with a

:12:16. > :12:21.coordinated joint statements on the 17th of December 1942, to condemn

:12:22. > :12:24.genocide and then beat committed to bringing the Nazis to justice for

:12:25. > :12:28.their crimes at that time. Just as we stood against genocide then, and

:12:29. > :12:33.made sure that those responsible would face justice, we must now show

:12:34. > :12:38.the required level of leadership today in the face of genocide in

:12:39. > :12:40.Syria and Iraq. The government needs to show that leadership in pressing

:12:41. > :12:45.the case for the recognition of genocide and we must reflect on the

:12:46. > :12:52.moral, ethical and humanitarian basis that action has to be taken.

:12:53. > :12:55.Genocide is understood as the deliberate, systematic,

:12:56. > :12:58.extermination of national, racial, political or cultural groups, and

:12:59. > :13:04.that is exactly what has been taking place. The ongoing conflicts in

:13:05. > :13:07.Syria and Iraq have seen the deliberate targeting of Yazidis,

:13:08. > :13:13.Christians and other minorities. If we take the example of the Yazidi

:13:14. > :13:18.town of Sinjar that was captured by Daesh in August 2000 14. The seizure

:13:19. > :13:22.of the city unleashed the ethnic cleansing of the Yazidi people. Your

:13:23. > :13:28.report tells us that 200,000 Yazidi people were driven from their homes

:13:29. > :13:32.after the fall of Sinjar. 40,000 Yazidi 's were trapped on Mount

:13:33. > :13:36.Sinjar, cup of white Daesh, they were without food, water or shelter.

:13:37. > :13:42.As has already been said, the choice for many was to be slaughtered by

:13:43. > :13:48.Daesh, or death by dehydration if they stay. The UN has estimated 5000

:13:49. > :13:54.men were massacred and 7000 women enslaved in this action. The women

:13:55. > :13:59.captured by Daesh were sold into sexual slavery and many were placed

:14:00. > :14:03.throughout Daesh- controlled territories. Destiny from survivors

:14:04. > :14:08.tells of horrific and daily violence. This has been a deliberate

:14:09. > :14:12.policy carried out by Daesh. The testimony of those who have escaped,

:14:13. > :14:17.Yazidi is an Christians, tells of the violent abuses carried out

:14:18. > :14:19.against them. As we heard from others, last night in Parliament,

:14:20. > :14:26.young Yazidi woman came to tell her own story. It was a most harrowing

:14:27. > :14:30.account of what had happened to her, her family and a graphic description

:14:31. > :14:34.of what has happened not only to her, but to thousands of other

:14:35. > :14:38.people in Syria and in Iraq. Before she spoke she was introduced by

:14:39. > :14:43.human rights lawyer, Jacqueline Isaac. She spoke of a shock of the

:14:44. > :14:48.fear of the nor can the door from fighters from Daesh Woodward lead to

:14:49. > :14:53.be people been characterised into different groups, with murder, rape

:14:54. > :14:56.and being taken hostage, place. That was just exactly what took place

:14:57. > :15:01.with the Nazis in Germany and elsewhere in Europe that resulted in

:15:02. > :15:05.the UK Government signalling its intent, in 1942, to bring the

:15:06. > :15:10.perpetrators to justice. If it was right in 1942, it is right in this

:15:11. > :15:15.House today in 2016. I hope that when we close this debate that the

:15:16. > :15:20.House and the government will unite in supporting this and that we can

:15:21. > :15:22.do the right thing for Yazidis, Christians and other minorities who

:15:23. > :15:29.have suffered in the wholesale removal of their communities from

:15:30. > :15:32.the region. I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way. He is

:15:33. > :15:37.making some excellent points. I wonder if he would agree with me

:15:38. > :15:40.that, whilst these minorities are being persecuted because of their

:15:41. > :15:45.religion, the debate today should not be about advocating one religion

:15:46. > :15:49.or another, it is about the basic human rights for all of us to choose

:15:50. > :15:54.any faith we choose or to choose none. Would he recognise that in

:15:55. > :15:58.this House there are many people of different faiths and people of no

:15:59. > :16:02.faith who will defend to the bitter end the right of others to exercise

:16:03. > :16:07.their faith and to do so without persecution? I am grateful to My

:16:08. > :16:12.Honourable Friend for making that point. As a practising Christian I

:16:13. > :16:16.am happy to accept everyone's right to profess their religion or none at

:16:17. > :16:20.all. It is important that in this Chamber, that we stand up for

:16:21. > :16:28.everybody. Madam Deputy Speaker, it has been said that when she closed

:16:29. > :16:32.her address last night, she implored us, she said, I am asking for help

:16:33. > :16:39.or stop Madam Deputy Speaker, we have responsibility for Eclas and

:16:40. > :16:45.everybody else. What are we going to do for Eclas? We must stand up and

:16:46. > :16:48.support a call of the UNC Ju Reti Council to confer restriction on the

:16:49. > :16:53.International Criminal Court, so that we can take action. The Pesch

:16:54. > :16:56.Maiga attack the place where Eclas was being held and she managed to

:16:57. > :17:02.escape before being rescued by Yazidis. This brave young woman, who

:17:03. > :17:05.has faced so much and witnessed such horrors, wants to become a lawyer

:17:06. > :17:10.and fight for the rights of woman. Really just maybe, if she fulfils

:17:11. > :17:17.that ambition, she can yet play her part in the legal team that brings

:17:18. > :17:19.her prosecutors to justice. We must help her and those like her who have

:17:20. > :17:26.suffered from genocide that has taken place. The situation we know

:17:27. > :17:30.it's Syria and in Iraq has been catastrophic and has led to one of

:17:31. > :17:34.the worst human attending crises ever witnessed. The number of

:17:35. > :17:41.Christians in Syria has fallen from 2 million thousand 11, two 1 million

:17:42. > :17:46.in 2015. In Iraq, it has fallen from 1.4 million, down to 260,000 today.

:17:47. > :17:51.Daesh has documented its specific intent to destroy Kuching groups in

:17:52. > :17:59.Syria and Iraq in its official propaganda. In February 2015 it

:18:00. > :18:04.seized villages and sort of older people fleeing to safety. 35

:18:05. > :18:10.villages were cleared and deserted in that one action alone. The

:18:11. > :18:15.atrocities satisfy the criteria established in the convention as

:18:16. > :18:17.genocide or stop by recognising that genocide has taken place, and

:18:18. > :18:23.signalling that those responsible should face justice, is an important

:18:24. > :18:27.tool in the fight to defeat Daesh. We need to send a clear message to

:18:28. > :18:31.all the minorities that have been affected, that have been attacked,

:18:32. > :18:36.that we are not going to abandon them, that we and other nations must

:18:37. > :18:45.stand shoulder to shoulder and show are resolved at the UN. -- show our

:18:46. > :18:55.resolve. Does he agree with me that there needs to be an international

:18:56. > :19:00.effort to find the Yazidi women captured by Daesh's I fully agree.

:19:01. > :19:05.The young woman we met last night is a perfect example of that. By the

:19:06. > :19:09.actions of the Pesch Maiga, she managed to be freed and she got into

:19:10. > :19:15.the hands of the Yazidis, so be must support the Pesch Berger and other

:19:16. > :19:18.like-minded people to make sure that we can ensure the safety of the men

:19:19. > :19:23.and women that have been captured by Daesh. I hope that the government

:19:24. > :19:27.will support this motion this afternoon and I hope that the

:19:28. > :19:30.Minister makes it clear that the government will do so. Others have

:19:31. > :19:34.already taken this step. The Parliamentary Assembly of the

:19:35. > :19:38.Council of Europe recognised genocide in the resolution passed on

:19:39. > :19:42.27th of January this year. This was followed by others elution in the

:19:43. > :19:45.European Parliament on. Every that recognised the crime of genocide and

:19:46. > :19:51.sought referral to the International Criminal Court. On 14th March, US

:19:52. > :19:55.House of Representatives recognise crimes against humanity and

:19:56. > :19:58.genocide. Three days later, the US Secretary of State announced that

:19:59. > :20:03.the US had determined that the Daesh actions against the Yazidis,

:20:04. > :20:06.Christians and other minorities constituted genocide. Why has the UK

:20:07. > :20:12.Government been silent, and why have we not yet seen action? We know that

:20:13. > :20:19.the Foreign Secretary has supported the International Criminal Court to

:20:20. > :20:26.hold perpetrators to account, but we know that the international court

:20:27. > :20:29.has to be enabled by the Security Council, and the UN Security Council

:20:30. > :20:34.must provide that enable Matt. We hear about the importance of the

:20:35. > :20:37.UK's membership of the UN Security Council. Here is a chance for the

:20:38. > :20:45.United Kingdom to show leadership and to take action, to stand up for

:20:46. > :20:51.Eclas, to respond to her plea for help for all those who have

:20:52. > :20:56.suffered. To show that in 1942 people do the right thing as in 2016

:20:57. > :21:00.or will we just stand back, wring our hands, and watch as Daesh reap

:21:01. > :21:05.their bitter harvest was Mike Roe we are signatories to the convention of

:21:06. > :21:11.genocide, we have a moral obligation to recognise what has taken place. I

:21:12. > :21:18.hope and pray this afternoon that, collectively, the House, United,

:21:19. > :21:25.does the right thing. I would like to join others in King flagellating

:21:26. > :21:29.My Honourable Friend the member for Congleton for her tremendous efforts

:21:30. > :21:36.in securing this debate. Words do matter. And saying that Daesh is

:21:37. > :21:39.committing acts of genocide against Christians and Yazidis is not just a

:21:40. > :21:45.statement of fact. It also forces us to realise that genocide is

:21:46. > :21:51.unfortunately an inherent part of Daesh's depraved operations. And the

:21:52. > :21:59.genocidal acts we have heard, the assassination of church leaders, the

:22:00. > :22:03.systematic torture and mass mode, crucifixions, sexual enslavement,

:22:04. > :22:06.systematic rape, which we heard in shocking and powerful detail from

:22:07. > :22:11.the oral lady, the member for Glasgow East, these acts are not

:22:12. > :22:16.just genocidal by consequence but by design. This distinction is

:22:17. > :22:22.absolutely clear in the Daesh propaganda sheets. The latest

:22:23. > :22:26.edition attacks any form of religion, any form of tolerance as

:22:27. > :22:31.being in direct contradiction to their twisted view of Islam. They

:22:32. > :22:36.say, and I quote, that the death of a single Muslim, no matter his role

:22:37. > :22:45.in society, is more grave than the massacre of every kaffir on earth.

:22:46. > :22:48.The same article says that any disbeliever standing in the way of

:22:49. > :22:57.Islamic State will be killed without Eddie or Morse, until governance is

:22:58. > :23:02.entirely for Allah. These statements are incompatible with the presence

:23:03. > :23:06.of minority groups on Daesh territory. So we are seeing quantum

:23:07. > :23:09.treated efforts from Daesh not only to obliterate any minority presence

:23:10. > :23:17.but to deny the cultural history of the territory they seat occupied. --

:23:18. > :23:22.they seat occupied. We have seen a number of Christians drop from 1.4

:23:23. > :23:29.million down to 250,000 in Iraq, and we have seen the historical

:23:30. > :23:33.settlement of 60,000 Christians in Mosul entirely disappear. We have

:23:34. > :23:37.seen the targeted destruction of sites such as monasteries,

:23:38. > :23:43.libraries, representational art and they're having edicts structuring

:23:44. > :23:44.Daesh troops to engage in the wholesale destruction of Islamic

:23:45. > :23:55.sites of worship. He makes a very important point. His

:23:56. > :24:00.point about Daesh's ignorance and denial about the historical and

:24:01. > :24:04.cultural nature of the area is crucial here. I studied the early

:24:05. > :24:08.caliphate, in that period many of the leaders of the Muslim world

:24:09. > :24:13.described the classical world that they took over as a garden protected

:24:14. > :24:19.by their spears. Isn't it tragic that they should's perversion of

:24:20. > :24:24.Islam is so different from the vision that they set out in the

:24:25. > :24:28.early days of the caliphate? It is not only tragic, it is twisted,

:24:29. > :24:32.bizarre and unimaginable that they should have taken their own religion

:24:33. > :24:36.and turned it into something so distinctly different from that which

:24:37. > :24:40.it was expected to provide. I would be happy to.

:24:41. > :24:45.Last year myself and a number of members of this has persuaded the

:24:46. > :24:48.Government to create a ?30 million cultural protection fund, the

:24:49. > :24:52.Government is in the process of deciding the criteria of how that

:24:53. > :24:57.would be spent. Would you agree that some of that money should go to the

:24:58. > :25:01.Heritage sites are persecuted religious minorities, such as

:25:02. > :25:06.Christian and Yazidi groups in Syria and Iraq, to protect historic sites,

:25:07. > :25:11.and manuscript is for future generations?

:25:12. > :25:15.I could not agree more. It is important to remember that the

:25:16. > :25:20.cultural demolition we are seeing is explicitly linked to the genocidal

:25:21. > :25:23.aims that we have heard discussed. To say that Christians and Yazidis

:25:24. > :25:28.are the victims of genocide is not to minimise the terrible suffering

:25:29. > :25:33.of others in the region. In the debate held on a similar amendment

:25:34. > :25:37.in another place, the noble lord Lord eights was entirely right to

:25:38. > :25:41.point out that it is very often Muslims, as we have heard today,

:25:42. > :25:48.suffering the greatest brutality of all at the hands of Daesh. As we

:25:49. > :25:52.have also just heard, over the last six months the United Nations, the

:25:53. > :25:55.United States Congress, the Council of Europe and the US Secretary of

:25:56. > :26:01.State have all declared that genocide is being committed by

:26:02. > :26:08.Daesh. Madam Deputy Speaker, I completely understand... I will give

:26:09. > :26:12.way. He makes a very important point about the other bodies who have

:26:13. > :26:16.declared that this is genocide. Having heard from Daesh themselves

:26:17. > :26:20.and having been witness to so many young Yazidi women coming to tell us

:26:21. > :26:25.their story, what more could it possibly take for this house also to

:26:26. > :26:32.form the view that this is genocide, and to have the courage to stand up

:26:33. > :26:37.and say so plus Jamaat I agree with the honourable lady. Her speech

:26:38. > :26:43.earlier was immensely powerful, from the first person perspective. I

:26:44. > :26:45.completely understand the Government's approach that a

:26:46. > :26:49.decision as to whether the word genocide is applicable as a decision

:26:50. > :26:54.for the international judicial bodies rather than governments or

:26:55. > :26:58.non-judicial bodies, but as the open letter from a group of peers to the

:26:59. > :27:04.Prime Minister on the 18th of February described, there is nothing

:27:05. > :27:09.to prevent Her Majesty's Government from forming and acting on its own

:27:10. > :27:14.view. A vote for the motion before the house would begin the process of

:27:15. > :27:17.a possible referral to the International criminal Court from

:27:18. > :27:21.the UN Security Council. It would send a signal to the perpetrators

:27:22. > :27:27.that they will be brought to justice and would, perhaps more crucially,

:27:28. > :27:34.act as a spur to the other 127 signatories of the 9048 Convention

:27:35. > :27:39.to add their support as well. -- the 1948. An emigre writer of a previous

:27:40. > :27:43.generation who fled persecution said that words without experience are

:27:44. > :27:50.meaningless. But the reverse is also true. When hundreds of thousands of

:27:51. > :27:56.people are suffering in this way, I think we must apply the only word

:27:57. > :28:03.which is adequate for the job, and support this important motion before

:28:04. > :28:08.the house today. Jim Shannon. Thank you, it is a pleasure to speak on

:28:09. > :28:10.this issue. Can I declare an interest, first of all, as the chair

:28:11. > :28:17.of the all-party parliamentary group for Pakistan religious minorities,

:28:18. > :28:21.and the freedom of religious belief. Those with Christian beliefs, those

:28:22. > :28:27.with other beliefs and those with no belief, as the honourable gentleman

:28:28. > :28:36.said in his intervention. Whether it be IS, Islamic State, Isil, is this,

:28:37. > :28:45.Daesh, many names, many guises but, above all, systematic psychopathic

:28:46. > :28:48.serial killers. Today is about the Yazidis, the Christians, the ethnic

:28:49. > :28:52.and religious minorities. I am pleased to see the minister in his

:28:53. > :28:56.place and look forward to his response. We have talked about it

:28:57. > :28:59.this year on a personal basis, I hope we will have the chance to

:29:00. > :29:04.express ourselves clearly on what we want to do in this house in relation

:29:05. > :29:08.to the word genocide. There have been many powerful, powerful

:29:09. > :29:12.speeches. They have been very passionate and focused. I would like

:29:13. > :29:17.to mention particular the honourable lady for Congleton. I am pleased to

:29:18. > :29:21.have her as a colleague and a friend, thanking her for setting the

:29:22. > :29:26.scene very well. The Daesh atrocities rival any atrocity in

:29:27. > :29:29.modern history, too many turn a blind eye, offering weak words or

:29:30. > :29:35.even attempt to rationalise it. In this house today the words are

:29:36. > :29:39.strong. What this self-declared state is doing is disgraceful. Would

:29:40. > :29:45.they care if their actions are called genocide or not? They will

:29:46. > :29:47.not, but we in this house in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and

:29:48. > :29:51.Northern Ireland should, and should set the bar that this cannot go on

:29:52. > :29:57.without being condemned in the utmost weight and being labelled

:29:58. > :30:00.appropriately as it is, genocide. There are some in my constituency

:30:01. > :30:05.who correspond with me, and me with them, this is an issue that they

:30:06. > :30:09.feel very strongly about. The brutality, the violence, the

:30:10. > :30:14.depravity, the evil. Those who survive physically are traumatised

:30:15. > :30:19.forever, we must ever be mindful of art. Islamic State militant are

:30:20. > :30:25.selling Abdur did Iraqi children as sex slaves, killing youth by

:30:26. > :30:30.crucifixion or burying them alive, the ultimatum is convert or die.

:30:31. > :30:33.That is genocide. 31 Egyptian Christians were kidnapped in a

:30:34. > :30:38.Libyan coastal surgery in tee separate incidents in December and

:30:39. > :30:43.January 20 15. In February they were beheaded on a Libyan beach in a

:30:44. > :30:52.chilling propaganda video by the self titled Islamic State. At the --

:30:53. > :30:57.after capturing a key strategic town, they rented a 45 civilians,

:30:58. > :31:01.some thought to be Iraq -- Iraqi security forces and their families,

:31:02. > :31:06.and burn them all alive. That is genocide. On June ten, 2014, Daesh

:31:07. > :31:12.took 600 male prisoners into the desert near Mosul in Iraq and

:31:13. > :31:14.initiated a mass execution. Approximately 30 men survived by

:31:15. > :31:19.rolling into the mass grave along with the other dead bodies. The

:31:20. > :31:23.pictures are absolutely chilling and produce an even more terrifying

:31:24. > :31:28.memory of the worst genocide of the 20th century. A survivor recounts a

:31:29. > :31:34.Daesh leader saying the Sydney must stand on one side, the Shia, the

:31:35. > :31:39.Kurds and the Yazidis on another. If I find Shia among the Sunnis, I will

:31:40. > :31:43.cut off his head with a sheet metal. Those are the words spoken by Daesh,

:31:44. > :31:48.who have a hatred of everyone not of their like. They are interrogated

:31:49. > :31:53.about beliefs, names, hometowns and other details. About 100 Shia

:31:54. > :31:59.prisoners were successful are pretending to be Sunni to escape

:32:00. > :32:04.further violence. The remaining Shia, Kurdish, Christian and Yazidi

:32:05. > :32:07.prisoners were searched. They took their money, watches, rings,

:32:08. > :32:13.jewellery, identity cards. One survivor said the more they got all

:32:14. > :32:18.of our possessions, I knew they would killers. The prisoners were

:32:19. > :32:21.given no food or water for 24 hours. They were promised surprise when

:32:22. > :32:25.they drove deeper into the desert. One arrived, the militants said, you

:32:26. > :32:33.will have water in paradise. The men were made to lie in -- line up in a

:32:34. > :32:37.single file, each person was forced to raise his hand and state his

:32:38. > :32:46.number. Survivors said many of the gunman were young, some appeared

:32:47. > :32:50.nervous, others excited. Some of them said they would eat well

:32:51. > :32:53.tonight. Madam Deputy Speaker, that is genocide. Further documented

:32:54. > :33:06.incidents include 1700 active captives executed in Tikrit in Iraq,

:33:07. > :33:10.hundreds in Mosul, Kurds massacred, including 700 children, 2000 women

:33:11. > :33:13.and children kidnapped, systematic hunting of members of ethnic and

:33:14. > :33:19.religious groups. In the words of the UN, that is genocide. Women

:33:20. > :33:24.raped and sold, young boys executed, girls and slaves for sexual abuse,

:33:25. > :33:28.children recruited as suicide bombers, more than 1 million

:33:29. > :33:33.refugees, half of them children. This might help the Minister, I hope

:33:34. > :33:37.it does, just to say what is happening in Northern Ireland. I am

:33:38. > :33:40.conscience of timing, at the Northern Ireland Assembly asked for

:33:41. > :33:43.direction from the Attorney General and they said that the violence

:33:44. > :33:46.currently being perpetrated against Christians and other minority

:33:47. > :33:52.religious groups, the Yazidis are members of certain Islamic

:33:53. > :33:56.communities constitutes genocide within the meaning of the December

:33:57. > :34:01.nine, 1948 UN Convention on the prevention and punishment up the

:34:02. > :34:08.crime of genocide, the Genocide Convention. A behaviour can be

:34:09. > :34:16.properly classified as genocide. The 30s consequences is the activation

:34:17. > :34:18.of the twofold thing contained in Article one to prevent and punish

:34:19. > :34:22.genocide. Article one that the contracting parties confirm that

:34:23. > :34:26.genocide, whether committed in time of peace or war, is a crime under

:34:27. > :34:31.international law which they undertake to prevent and punish.

:34:32. > :34:33.The day of reckoning is here for Daesh, the Attorney General the

:34:34. > :34:38.Northern Ireland Assembly 's. It seems that actual or potential

:34:39. > :34:40.victims of genocide have the right to the acknowledgement of their

:34:41. > :34:46.circumstances. Governments are undead corresponding duty to make

:34:47. > :34:51.these acknowledgements. The violence perpetrated against these groups, I

:34:52. > :34:55.do not have as -- hesitate to say, constitutes genocide. With that in

:34:56. > :34:59.mind, I hope the Minister can take the words of the Attorney General

:35:00. > :35:03.and what he has decreed in Northern Ireland. Legally, I believe, it

:35:04. > :35:07.helps the Minister to make this decision. Amnesty International's

:35:08. > :35:14.article, Ethnic Cleansing On An Historic Scale details with

:35:15. > :35:19.eyewitness Vesely seven more Daesh atrocities in Iraq, at least 100 men

:35:20. > :35:23.and boys herded together and shot to death, scores of men and boys

:35:24. > :35:30.executed, more than 50 men and boys rounded up, dead boys, raped girls

:35:31. > :35:33.and captive villagers gunned down for refusing to renounce their

:35:34. > :35:39.faith. They die everyday at the hands of Isis and Daesh. It is not a

:35:40. > :35:43.horror movie, I wish it was, it is taking place just a plane flight

:35:44. > :35:48.away from here. It is time that we call it what it is, it is

:35:49. > :35:54.systematic, it is genocide. It is a great pleasure to take place

:35:55. > :35:58.-- part in this important debate. I want to tell the Government that we

:35:59. > :36:03.need to be no doubt that if the vote is passed on this motion, it be

:36:04. > :36:08.ignored. Other motions have come forward, but this is at the very

:36:09. > :36:12.highest of seriousness and importance. We will not let it be

:36:13. > :36:16.ignored. We will return again and again until the Government properly

:36:17. > :36:20.makes that justified referral to the Security Council. I want to pay

:36:21. > :36:25.tribute to the member for Congleton, she has had enormous tributes and

:36:26. > :36:27.should have more. She is very much the voice of the voiceless, a

:36:28. > :36:34.champion of human dignity. Along with the noble and -- the noble lord

:36:35. > :36:38.Alton in the other Place, who is watching and has all his sterling

:36:39. > :36:41.work in trying to cajole and entice the Government to do what makes

:36:42. > :36:46.sense. It is about being a voice. A passionate speech from the member

:36:47. > :36:50.for Glasgow East not least brought to bear the voice of those who have

:36:51. > :36:53.those harrowing experiences, who have been the victims of the

:36:54. > :37:02.appalling actions of Isis. Richard was made by the Manor -- honourable

:37:03. > :37:07.member of the pub near Arce, the replicate you can see at Trafalgar

:37:08. > :37:14.Square -- the Palmyra Arce. I saw the unveiling of the Palmyra arch.

:37:15. > :37:18.The point made by the head about antiquities from Syria, he was proud

:37:19. > :37:22.that we could stand in solidarity. Solidarity with the Syrians, victims

:37:23. > :37:27.of appalling crimes. The replica Palmyra arch to -- provides a

:37:28. > :37:32.declaration of solidarity. We are doing that today, by declaring

:37:33. > :37:40.genocide. What he and the victims would want is a sport to -- us to do

:37:41. > :37:43.more, and this has teeth so it wants to encourage and ensure their legal

:37:44. > :37:49.obligations. The honourable member before said that the Palmyra arch

:37:50. > :37:54.basically says Isis can't win. They can't win. This motion is about

:37:55. > :38:00.saying that they can't win. They need to be held to account, there

:38:01. > :38:04.needs to be justice. What the head of UNESCO said about the

:38:05. > :38:11.destruction, whether it is the arch or churches, monasteries and shrines

:38:12. > :38:13.that have affected many groups, it is cultural genocide, they are all

:38:14. > :38:18.kinds, they need to be held to account. The Government has

:38:19. > :38:21.recognised the issue of cultural destruction, it needs to ensure

:38:22. > :38:27.there is accountability. That is why I very much hope and look forward to

:38:28. > :38:30.the Queen's Speech including the belated ratification of the Hague

:38:31. > :38:34.Convention and its second protocols. At the purpose is to show and

:38:35. > :38:37.accountability to cultural destruction. It would be

:38:38. > :38:41.extraordinary if we see the passage through, the passing of the Hague

:38:42. > :38:44.Convention on the ratification, showing accountability in relation

:38:45. > :38:47.to cultural destruction, but will not do what we should do which is

:38:48. > :38:56.ensure accountability for acts of genocide.

:38:57. > :39:02.The declaration needs to be made today that they can't win and it is

:39:03. > :39:05.passed unanimously and we also take action. I will go through the

:39:06. > :39:10.examples that have already been mentioned that Nick the case that

:39:11. > :39:19.there is not only deliberate brutalist targeting of culture, but

:39:20. > :39:29.also history and people. Kidnapping, in slaving. The UN report at least

:39:30. > :39:33.3500 people have been enslaved. Many executed. Many aren't jihadist

:39:34. > :39:39.website. The burgeoning command, convert or die. We are not simply

:39:40. > :39:42.acting out of solidarity or making a positional statement. It is

:39:43. > :39:48.important to hold the government here to account. What has the

:39:49. > :39:52.government done over recent times? In one sense there was a concern

:39:53. > :39:59.that we would have to categorise the government responses as walk on by.

:40:00. > :40:05.I say that sadly. To go back to the 16th of December and go back to an

:40:06. > :40:11.answer, we are not submitting any evidence of possible genocide

:40:12. > :40:16.against your CDs were Christians to international courts, nor have we

:40:17. > :40:20.been asked to. What an extraordinary thing that our government was going

:40:21. > :40:24.to sit on its hands. We know that the obligations in the genocide

:40:25. > :40:31.Convention have obligations on the top of themselves to take a view and

:40:32. > :40:38.to act upon it. The Minister in his place today seven April, this month,

:40:39. > :40:43.that we are helping to gather evidence that could be used to hold

:40:44. > :40:48.an ISP account appropriately. I would ask him to confirm that the

:40:49. > :40:51.government is doing that, there are properly referring to to the

:40:52. > :40:55.Security Council. How else could we categorise the response from the

:40:56. > :41:01.government? In some ways it is going around in circles. The Minister

:41:02. > :41:07.himself has preferred, saying that we as the government is not the

:41:08. > :41:12.judge and jury, it is done in the International courts and the

:41:13. > :41:16.Security Council. The Security Council has a key role to play. The

:41:17. > :41:20.Minister give himself away through this. The Security Council can make

:41:21. > :41:24.a feral and that is what this margin is about. The government can't just

:41:25. > :41:30.defer to the international courts and go around in circles. Many noble

:41:31. > :41:36.Lords signed a letter to the Prime Minister making this point, there is

:41:37. > :41:42.nothing to stop the government acting on its own view. The

:41:43. > :41:46.government has not taken the view itself, and I don't understand why,

:41:47. > :41:56.unlike other governments authorities. -- and authorities. I

:41:57. > :42:08.repeat the questions of those eminent Lords and QCs, why would the

:42:09. > :42:14.government renew its decision to not... Why are they making the

:42:15. > :42:17.proper means to means to go to the Security Council to ensure that the

:42:18. > :42:23.feral is made to the international court. We have to ask ourselves why.

:42:24. > :42:27.It's a big concern not just about the evidence of genocide, but the

:42:28. > :42:34.consequences, the legal consequences of that? Isn't unconcerned about the

:42:35. > :42:38.horror implications to pick them is, because at long last it would have

:42:39. > :42:42.the assurance that there will be justice, the perpetrators will be

:42:43. > :42:52.held to account. It is important that they are recognised as Vic

:42:53. > :42:58.rooms and can be restoration, in a real forum for lives that have been

:42:59. > :43:07.seriously damaged. The needs to be settlement and safety for refugees.

:43:08. > :43:12.They need to find safe passage. Today we are making a declaration.

:43:13. > :43:16.We are there in solidarity. We are also saying to the government but

:43:17. > :43:22.you must hold Isis to account for genocide. We will not let the

:43:23. > :43:25.government ignore this notion today. They must take action for the good

:43:26. > :43:37.of all those groups we have mentioned, and for the civilised

:43:38. > :43:41.world. I have to reduce the time limits of speeches to five minutes,

:43:42. > :43:48.with apologies I will call this Chamakh Durcan. Like others, I want

:43:49. > :43:53.to pay tribute to the honourable member for giving the house the

:43:54. > :44:02.opportunity to respond to the pleased that we have herds from a

:44:03. > :44:06.number of yes CD young woman who had come to the site is not just to tell

:44:07. > :44:07.us of their own experience bouts of those like them who remain in

:44:08. > :44:26.captivity. I am conscious that we have heard in

:44:27. > :44:32.recent months from Nadi mirror out who told us of her experiences in a

:44:33. > :44:36.meeting called by the honourable member from Argyll Bute and

:44:37. > :44:43.sponsored by the Parliamentary human rights group. We have heard from

:44:44. > :44:49.someone else in March. I want a page a bid to all of the honourable

:44:50. > :45:00.members who have hosted these women witnesses who have come to give us

:45:01. > :45:04.this testimony. I want to pay tribute to the honourable member for

:45:05. > :45:12.Canon Valley who has such experience in this region. What we heard from

:45:13. > :45:19.Nadi was that the Islamic State have one intention, to destroy the Yazidi

:45:20. > :45:23.identity by force, rape, the recruitment of children and the

:45:24. > :45:28.destruction of holy sites, especially against the Yazidi woman

:45:29. > :45:31.whether use rape as a means of destruction, and ensuring that these

:45:32. > :45:35.women will never return to normal life. It was not only me who

:45:36. > :45:40.suffered, it was a collective suffering, she said. The Islamic

:45:41. > :45:47.State given two choices, convert or die. The men were killed, women

:45:48. > :45:51.enslaved and the children recruited. She went on to speak of the

:45:52. > :45:57.desperate journeys that many people would try to make. When she appealed

:45:58. > :46:00.to us, she appealed to us not just to make sure that we moved to

:46:01. > :46:06.recognise the genocide that was happening to her people for what it

:46:07. > :46:12.was, and for other minorities including Christians in Iraq and

:46:13. > :46:15.Syria, she also asked us to open borders for my community. We are

:46:16. > :46:18.victims of the genocide and we have the right to seek a safe race where

:46:19. > :46:24.our dignity will be preserved. The request that you gave Yazidis the

:46:25. > :46:29.choice to resettle, and other threatened minorities, especially to

:46:30. > :46:35.the temp one on human trafficking, like Germany did. Nadi has written

:46:36. > :46:41.to us only this week. Again she has asked us to take up these points,

:46:42. > :46:46.not just in terms of recognising what they are suffering as genocide,

:46:47. > :46:52.but also to ask that the UK would undertake a programme similar to

:46:53. > :46:56.Germany, where a thousand women and girls were admitted for treatment

:46:57. > :47:08.and counselling on special to your visas. -- 8,000 Yazidi woman. We

:47:09. > :47:10.were told how thousands contemplated suicide because they knew when there

:47:11. > :47:15.are being separated into different groups at three o'clock in the

:47:16. > :47:22.morning in a sporting Hall in Mosul after a day of humiliated and

:47:23. > :47:28.molested travel by bus, she knew what was happening. She told tire

:47:29. > :47:33.after days of treatment like this a 17-year-old girl committed suicide

:47:34. > :47:39.after she learnt that Daesh had killed her family, she cut her

:47:40. > :47:45.wrists. In revenge the terrorists took her body and through to the

:47:46. > :47:50.dogs. We know from what we have heard that this is genocide. We

:47:51. > :47:53.should not be quibbling about this or hesitating. We know that the

:47:54. > :47:57.depraved crimes are unspeakable but that should not mean that we should

:47:58. > :48:05.not nameless for the genocide that it is. According to the UN, genocide

:48:06. > :48:09.is deliberately inflicting conditions designed to bring about

:48:10. > :48:13.the group's destruction, preventing births within the community or

:48:14. > :48:17.forcibly transferring its children. We know that those who are

:48:18. > :48:22.perpetrating these crimes are doing so to exterminate and extinguish a

:48:23. > :48:28.people. We know that they mean what they are doing to be genocide and to

:48:29. > :48:31.have all of the bloody awful consequences of genocide. We know

:48:32. > :48:36.that those suffering these terrible crimes know that it is genocide and

:48:37. > :48:40.it is meant as genocide. Why should we hesitate to say as a chamber we

:48:41. > :48:46.know what the word genocide means we know it is being committed against

:48:47. > :48:50.the Yazidi people? I agree with all of that and I want to follow one

:48:51. > :48:56.directly from the speech given by my honourable friend the member for

:48:57. > :49:02.Enfield Southgate. This is a vital motion. It is an important moment

:49:03. > :49:08.for the Minister. We want no more weasel words. We want him to accept

:49:09. > :49:14.this motion. We want to accept what we are calling for in this motion in

:49:15. > :49:18.clear explicit terms, we call on the government to make an immediate

:49:19. > :49:22.referral to the United Nations Security Council with a view to

:49:23. > :49:28.comparing jurisdiction upon the International Criminal Court. The

:49:29. > :49:33.attitude of the government up until now it has been based on precedents,

:49:34. > :49:39.but I don't believe that precedent in this case is enough given the

:49:40. > :49:48.horrors that are going on in the world. I would be delighted if the

:49:49. > :49:54.Minister, he can intervene on me now, if the government are going to

:49:55. > :50:00.accept this motion, then in the sense we have already won this

:50:01. > :50:06.debate. There is absolutely no point, in the Minister reducing the

:50:07. > :50:11.time that they are going to have the size to condemn Daesh, to mention

:50:12. > :50:16.all of the appalling act that they are doing, then saying at the end of

:50:17. > :50:20.that speech well I am very sorry but because of legal precedent, because

:50:21. > :50:25.of this circle argument that my honourable friend preferred to,

:50:26. > :50:29.because we the government think that it is for the courts to take the

:50:30. > :50:36.initiative, that we don't think it is appropriate for the government to

:50:37. > :50:42.take action. There is more than one person -- there is one person

:50:43. > :50:45.waiting to play his part, the prosecutor of the International

:50:46. > :50:48.Court waiting for the referral from the Security Council so he can

:50:49. > :50:55.properly hold these people to account. My honourable friend the

:50:56. > :50:59.Minister is sitting there, listening to what we are saying, he is likely

:51:00. > :51:04.to give a strong and powerful speech, he will not just condemn

:51:05. > :51:08.Daesh he will say, yes, we have listened to the debate, we have

:51:09. > :51:13.listened to the House of Commons, we are going to act on the this to the

:51:14. > :51:22.Security Council. Let's look at the facts, just in terms of pure legal

:51:23. > :51:32.argument, which has nothing to do with a motion -- emotion. The

:51:33. > :51:38.criteria set forth by the 1948 act on the prevention of genocide is

:51:39. > :51:43.clear. The crime is being committed with intent to destroy in whole or

:51:44. > :51:50.in part and national, ethnical, racial or religious group. It then

:51:51. > :51:54.lists five qualifying conditions. Killing members of the group.

:51:55. > :51:59.Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.

:52:00. > :52:05.Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of lives calculated to

:52:06. > :52:10.bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. Imposing

:52:11. > :52:14.measures intended to prevent births within the group. Forcibly

:52:15. > :52:20.transferring children of the group to another group. Now, it is

:52:21. > :52:27.obviously clear, completely blatant, that conditions, the first three

:52:28. > :52:34.conditions, are in effect and are going on in those areas under Daesh

:52:35. > :52:39.control. It is vital to recall that even if just one of those conditions

:52:40. > :52:45.is met the declaring of acts as genocidal is allowed. So on the

:52:46. > :52:52.clearest legal criteria there is absolutely no doubt that genocide is

:52:53. > :52:57.being committed. It is therefore the duty of Her Majesty's government, in

:52:58. > :53:05.terms of humanity and not just in terms of legal arguments, to do its

:53:06. > :53:08.duty now, to stop prevaricating and to refer this to the Security

:53:09. > :53:15.Council and to accept this motion. It would be intolerable either for

:53:16. > :53:21.the governments to whip against this motion and to force members of the

:53:22. > :53:26.payroll to vote against their own conscience or abstain and it would

:53:27. > :53:32.also be intolerable if the government by some sleight of hand

:53:33. > :53:39.was to allow this motion to go forward and then to say that it was

:53:40. > :53:43.not binding on the government. If this motion is passed today, and I

:53:44. > :53:47.sincerely hope that neither the Minister will speak against it, nor

:53:48. > :53:50.will the whips be putting in against that, if this motion is passed by a

:53:51. > :54:00.love House of Commons has spoken. The House of Commons has spoken and

:54:01. > :54:05.the Government should act. Let's be absolutely clear, there have been so

:54:06. > :54:09.many powerful speeches, the most powerful of all given by the

:54:10. > :54:15.honourable lady for Glasgow East. Why was it so moving? Why so

:54:16. > :54:22.powerful? Because it is the explicit personal experience of somebody who

:54:23. > :54:27.was talking about girls of nine years old being raped and killed by

:54:28. > :54:32.this murderous cult. I myself have visited this area. Of all the

:54:33. > :54:39.villages, the Christian villages I visited, 19 have been taken over by

:54:40. > :54:44.Daesh, only one remains. We actually visited the tomb of a profit, and we

:54:45. > :54:48.saw what he wrote. Your people are scattered on the mountains with

:54:49. > :54:53.known to gather them in, and the gates of your land are wide open to

:54:54. > :55:00.your foes. Enough is enough, I call on the Government to act. Thank you,

:55:01. > :55:05.Madam Deputy Speaker. It was not my intention to speak in this debate,

:55:06. > :55:12.because the speeches, as the honourable member for Gainsborough

:55:13. > :55:19.said, has been so powerful, so poignant, so come howling, that I

:55:20. > :55:23.felt I could not add very much. Except that I for many years

:55:24. > :55:27.gathered evidence on Iraqi war crimes, and in this chamber for week

:55:28. > :55:35.after week after week I argued that the prosecution -- I argued for the

:55:36. > :55:41.prosecution for Iraqi war crimes for human rights abuses, crimes against

:55:42. > :55:47.humanity and genocide. I am very happy to support this motion

:55:48. > :55:53.tonight, because the case has been made over and over again. I also

:55:54. > :56:00.raise the case of the Yazidis in September 20 14. I put forward an

:56:01. > :56:03.early day motion at that time calling for action, saying that this

:56:04. > :56:09.house is extremely concerned about the genocidal campaign being waged

:56:10. > :56:14.against minorities in Iraq by Isis, due to alarming evidence recently

:56:15. > :56:19.collected by Amnesty International about the brutal campaign to

:56:20. > :56:23.obliterate all trades of non-Arabs and non-Sony macro Muslims which has

:56:24. > :56:28.turned the area into blood-soaked killing fields. I have been shocked

:56:29. > :56:33.by the barbaric treatment of Yazidis and so on. Many Yazidis, both in

:56:34. > :56:40.northern Iraq itself, after some of the Peshmerga and the campaign for

:56:41. > :56:45.human rights in northern Iraq, it actually rescued some of those women

:56:46. > :56:51.and it ought them on the open market. They were calling them for

:56:52. > :56:54.additional assistance from us. We have given humanitarian assistance,

:56:55. > :57:00.I think we could have done much more. A lot of tears have been shed

:57:01. > :57:07.about the Yazidis, but I would have liked to have seen much more

:57:08. > :57:14.practical help given to the Peshmergas to assist in the

:57:15. > :57:17.liberation of those thousands of women. And thousands of Yazidi women

:57:18. > :57:25.are still captive, we should be aware of that and ready to give

:57:26. > :57:27.whatever assistance. Can I stress the importance of collecting

:57:28. > :57:33.evidence? I know the Minister has previously said when you are talking

:57:34. > :57:38.about genocide, such matters are determined first in the

:57:39. > :57:43.international courts, and in the United Nations Security Council.

:57:44. > :57:51.We're helping to gather evidence which can be used to hold Daesh to

:57:52. > :57:57.account. I hope we can tell them how we will collect the evidence. When I

:57:58. > :58:03.collected evidence, it was over a seven-year period. We were not

:58:04. > :58:09.assisted by our Government at that time. We had many macro from the

:58:10. > :58:13.Americans and from the Kuwaitis, but we had to do it ourselves. We

:58:14. > :58:22.collected at over seven years, and when Saddam Hussein and is the other

:58:23. > :58:25.man were eventually brought to justice, it was on some of the

:58:26. > :58:30.evidence that we collected. I would be grateful if the Minister could be

:58:31. > :58:35.very precise about the way we are assisting in collecting that

:58:36. > :58:40.evidence. Obviously that would be extremely important, as has been the

:58:41. > :58:48.case for the Iraqis, and eventually we saw Saddam Hussein and others

:58:49. > :58:55.convicted on the crime of genocide. And I hope that we will support this

:58:56. > :58:59.motion today. I hope it is put to a vote, I think it is essential that

:59:00. > :59:06.we make it clear that this is the view of this House of Commons

:59:07. > :59:12.unbearable not be any more delay. I am very proud to be a signatory to

:59:13. > :59:15.this motion today, so ably moved by my honourable friend for Congleton,

:59:16. > :59:21.to whom rightful tributes have richly been paid. I would also like

:59:22. > :59:27.to pay tribute to those members of the other place who have also made

:59:28. > :59:35.an enormous contribution to this battle. The noble lord Lord Alton,

:59:36. > :59:40.my noble friend Lord Forsyth, Baroness Cox and Baroness Mickelson

:59:41. > :59:44.and many others. This is a big campaign across both Houses of

:59:45. > :59:49.Parliament on behalf, as the honourable member for Ealing North

:59:50. > :59:56.said, of the British people. The question we have to decide today is

:59:57. > :00:01.has Daesh been, as it were, convicted by us of committing

:00:02. > :00:08.genocide? The United States think so, that is the verdict of Congress

:00:09. > :00:12.and Secretary of State Kerry. My honourable friend the Minister, who

:00:13. > :00:17.will wind up in a few moments, that is his view, although that has been

:00:18. > :00:21.tempered by his reference to the need for is to present evidence to

:00:22. > :00:28.the United Nations for prosecutions to take place as so many others have

:00:29. > :00:32.said. My view is that this debate today in this place, following the

:00:33. > :00:37.debate that took place on the 3rd of February in the other place, shows

:00:38. > :00:43.that the case that Daesh has been engaged in genocide has been made.

:00:44. > :00:47.We have heard some very powerful testimonies. The honourable member

:00:48. > :00:51.for Glasgow East, I think, captivated the house with what she

:00:52. > :00:58.said. I nearly said my honourable friend, for Ealing North, but we are

:00:59. > :01:03.very good friends. His evidence, too. And my honourable friend for

:01:04. > :01:11.Gainsborough set out the legal conditions that apply under the 1948

:01:12. > :01:16.Convention. It seems to me that it cannot be the case that none of

:01:17. > :01:21.those five conditions has not been met. It seems to me that those

:01:22. > :01:34.conditions have been met fulsomely. Of course I give way. If this is not

:01:35. > :01:38.genocide, then what is it -- what is genocide? I have not had the

:01:39. > :01:43.privilege of meeting these people, as so many honourable members have,

:01:44. > :01:46.but I'm extremely moved by the testimony that so many rate

:01:47. > :01:51.honourable members have made today, and I am not sure how any normal

:01:52. > :01:56.person listening to the debate today can possibly come to any other

:01:57. > :02:02.conclusion that what has been going on has been genocide, is genocide,

:02:03. > :02:08.to this day, that Christians, Yazidis and others are being wiped

:02:09. > :02:12.out. That is, as so many people have said, the intention. It is not a

:02:13. > :02:18.by-product of some of the policy, the intention is to wipe them out. I

:02:19. > :02:25.wish to be brief, so I will conclude by saying that I think we have three

:02:26. > :02:31.very powerful reasons why we should take action and why the Government

:02:32. > :02:35.should listen. The first is that we are a permanent member of the United

:02:36. > :02:40.Nations security Council. That is referred this matter to ourselves.

:02:41. > :02:48.That should not be too difficult. We have an important role in the UN, we

:02:49. > :02:53.should fulfil it. Secondly, to the great tragedy of this nation, it is,

:02:54. > :03:00.unfortunately, our fellow citizens who are involved and steeped in

:03:01. > :03:06.blood. They are competent in this genocide. We therefore have a locus.

:03:07. > :03:12.Thirdly, we are a Christian country, these are fellow Christians being

:03:13. > :03:15.persecuted, and I think that we cannot, as my noble friend Lord

:03:16. > :03:20.Forsyth said in the other place, walk by on the other side. I think

:03:21. > :03:25.we owe it to them to take action. As we will be reminding ourselves

:03:26. > :03:31.tomorrow, we have a sovereign who is also the supreme Governor of the

:03:32. > :03:37.Church of England. It is part of our country. I wish to conclude, Madam

:03:38. > :03:42.Deputy Speaker, by referring to the words of Major General Tim Cross, my

:03:43. > :03:47.own constituents, who has been giving evidence recently in the

:03:48. > :03:51.other place. He said there can be no doubt that genocide has been carried

:03:52. > :03:56.out on Yazidi and Christian communities, and the international

:03:57. > :04:00.community's failure to recognise what is happening will be to our

:04:01. > :04:04.collective shame in years to come. I hope that the Government will listen

:04:05. > :04:11.to the collective view of the words of this house and of the other place

:04:12. > :04:14.and act on behalf of the British people against this appalling

:04:15. > :04:20.genocide taking place against our fellow Christians and so many

:04:21. > :04:26.others. In 1994I was living a few hundred miles away from where nearly

:04:27. > :04:31.a million people were killed in the course of three months in a genocide

:04:32. > :04:35.in Rwanda. At that time, the international community, both before

:04:36. > :04:39.the genocide started and after, was too slow to act and recognise this

:04:40. > :04:43.crime against humanity, and as a result I believe more people died

:04:44. > :04:47.than necessary. This is another such occasion when we have heard the

:04:48. > :04:52.evidence, we need to say quite categorically that this is genocide,

:04:53. > :04:59.we should recognise that now. If not now, when?

:05:00. > :05:03.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. AI also begin by congratulating my

:05:04. > :05:09.honourable friend the members Congleton for bringing this

:05:10. > :05:12.important debate to the floor? Judging by the contributions we have

:05:13. > :05:15.heard this afternoon, I don't think anybody can be in any doubt

:05:16. > :05:19.whatsoever that this house believes that what has happened to the

:05:20. > :05:23.Christian and Yazidi communities of northern Iraq and Syria is genocide.

:05:24. > :05:28.What station have been involved in is genocide. We should not shy away

:05:29. > :05:33.from describing it exactly is that -- what Daesh have been involved in.

:05:34. > :05:35.There have been excellent contributions to the debate, I don't

:05:36. > :05:40.have time to highlight every single one but, if I may point out one or

:05:41. > :05:45.two macro particularly, the honourable member for Liverpool West

:05:46. > :05:49.Derby, the chair of the International development committee,

:05:50. > :05:52.bringing his considerable international weight to the debate

:05:53. > :05:56.is very welcome. The honourable member for Eastbourne, who gave a

:05:57. > :06:01.compelling case for this to be called genocide. The honourable

:06:02. > :06:05.member four at the Fleet Southgate who told the Government that under

:06:06. > :06:11.no circumstances would this be allowed to be brushed under the

:06:12. > :06:15.carpet or forgotten and ignored. I, too, was extremely moved by the

:06:16. > :06:19.contribution from my honourable friend the member for Glasgow East,

:06:20. > :06:24.a very personal and moving testimony which I heard last night for the

:06:25. > :06:27.first time, it was equally moving to hear it again this afternoon. And my

:06:28. > :06:35.honourable friend the member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber, who chew a

:06:36. > :06:38.para girl -- chew a parallel with Europe in the 1940s and what we are

:06:39. > :06:45.currently with Singh in Syria and Iraq. -- what we are currently with

:06:46. > :06:48.the sink. There were excellent contributions, much of it harrowing

:06:49. > :06:52.and at times difficult to listen to, but it is important that the voices

:06:53. > :06:56.heard. Because if we can do nothing else, then we owe it to the people

:06:57. > :07:01.who have been the victims of Daesh barbarism, those who have been

:07:02. > :07:05.subject to a level after property that sometimes defies comprehension.

:07:06. > :07:10.And we had to hear what they had to say, we have to listen when a call

:07:11. > :07:17.for help. And what is it they are asking of us? It is simply that this

:07:18. > :07:23.government recognises what has happened to them and recognises that

:07:24. > :07:29.it is genocide, and it refers their case to the United Nations Security

:07:30. > :07:31.Council. So that the International criminal Court can bring those who

:07:32. > :07:37.perpetrate these awful crimes to justice. I do not think that that is

:07:38. > :07:41.too much to ask. And all the evidence is there. But what is

:07:42. > :07:43.happening in Syria and Iraq and the areas under Daesh control is,

:07:44. > :07:58.indeed, genocide. Sometimes there is a reluctance on

:07:59. > :08:06.the part of the government to recognise genocide is taking place.

:08:07. > :08:18.We have a moral obligation to say this is genocide. The Council of

:08:19. > :08:22.Europe, the European Parliament, the United States Congress, the