Culture, Media and Sport Questions

:00:00. > :00:08.was committed, as gone through the same and has directed me to report

:00:09. > :00:16.it your Lordships without amendment. My Lord's. I am delighted to be

:00:17. > :00:21.opening this debate on the report BBC Charter Review. Reeth not

:00:22. > :00:26.revolution, from the Select Committee on communications which I

:00:27. > :00:31.have the honour to chair. The only interest I must declare is that my

:00:32. > :00:32.son Will Best is the presenter o after BBC children's programme on

:00:33. > :00:36.CBBC. I am grateful to my fellow committee

:00:37. > :00:40.members for their input into this report. They represent different

:00:41. > :00:45.perspectives within your Lordship's house and I think it is significant

:00:46. > :00:52.so much unanimity was achieved for our conclusions and recommendations,

:00:53. > :01:00.our thanks go to our clerk man Murphy, policy analyst and our

:01:01. > :01:06.specialist adviser, and to all those who made submissions to the

:01:07. > :01:12.committee, particularly the 43 witnesses who presented oral

:01:13. > :01:16.evidence. As a trailer for the debate today, Baroness

:01:17. > :01:20.Bonham-Carter's lunch break session on 10th March attracted 20 speakers

:01:21. > :01:25.with contributions limited to one minute, today, with even more

:01:26. > :01:31.speakers, but a sensible timetable I hope we can do more justice to a

:01:32. > :01:36.subject which affects virtually every single man, woman and child in

:01:37. > :01:41.the United Kingdom. I thank in advance all those who will be

:01:42. > :01:44.speaking, in this debate. The Secretary of State has told us

:01:45. > :01:49.our, told our committee that Government, rather than responding

:01:50. > :01:53.separately to our report, will take it into account, in preparing the

:01:54. > :01:59.White Paper on renewal of the BBC's Charter, we now know that the White

:02:00. > :02:03.Paper will be published in late May. This mean, my Lord's, that our

:02:04. > :02:08.debate is well timed to feed into the final stages of the White

:02:09. > :02:11.Paper's content, but once that White Paper has been released it will be

:02:12. > :02:16.important for this House to be given an opportunity to consider it fully.

:02:17. > :02:18.Could I ask the noble Baroness the minister, if she might reassure

:02:19. > :02:23.understand that time will be allocated on the floor of the House,

:02:24. > :02:29.to debate this proposals which will be set out in this important White

:02:30. > :02:34.Paper? My Lord's t title of the report on BBC charter renewal, foi

:02:35. > :02:38.which are indebted to our committee member the noble Lord, Lord heart,

:02:39. > :02:44.sums up the position we have taken. We put our faith in a BBC which

:02:45. > :02:48.respects and appreciates its founding principle, established by

:02:49. > :02:53.the first Director General Lord Reith, and we rejected calls for

:02:54. > :02:58.radical fundamental change in the underlying purpose of the BBC, or

:02:59. > :03:04.its scale or scope. Speaking personally, I was aware at the

:03:05. > :03:08.outset of our inquiry, of a lot of background noise about the

:03:09. > :03:15.possibilities of dramatic change for the BBC. Of course, there had been

:03:16. > :03:19.the Jimmy Savile scandal, criticisms of salaries for executives,

:03:20. > :03:25.accusations of political bias and so on, but as the evidence rolled in,

:03:26. > :03:31.it became clear to me that mostly the fuss, the call for the BBC to be

:03:32. > :03:35.cut down to size, opened up to commercial competition and the rest,

:03:36. > :03:40.was coming from the Westminster village not from the world outside,

:03:41. > :03:46.broadly we discovered that the public at large were strongly in

:03:47. > :03:51.favour of their BBC, and would be gratefully opposed to radical

:03:52. > :03:56.change. My Lord's, we recognise that with a limited timescale we couldn't

:03:57. > :04:00.cover every aspect of the BBC's future so we deliberately excluded

:04:01. > :04:04.the topic of governance of the corporation not least because they

:04:05. > :04:09.were considered by our sister committee, in the other place, and

:04:10. > :04:15.because in September last year the Government announced that Sir David

:04:16. > :04:19.Clementy would carry out a review. In the event I do not think the

:04:20. > :04:22.committee would have any disagreement with the Select

:04:23. > :04:27.Committee's views or the recommendations of Sir David on the

:04:28. > :04:34.creation a new unitary board for the BBC, with the abolition of the BBC

:04:35. > :04:39.Trust, and regulation by Ofcom. The areas we did tackle, in our eight

:04:40. > :04:44.month inquiry, covered first the underlying purpose of the BBC,

:04:45. > :04:48.second the BBC's scale and scope, third, the process for setting the

:04:49. > :04:53.license fee, and finally, the timing of the charity, for how many years

:04:54. > :04:58.should it run before renewal. In terms of the BBC's purpose, the

:04:59. > :05:02.charter states that the BBC's main objective is the promotion of

:05:03. > :05:07.certain public purposes, we decided to examine the six official public

:05:08. > :05:13.purpose, in some depth, but as we ventured further into the detail of

:05:14. > :05:19.these, it became increasingly apparent as was voiced most

:05:20. > :05:24.forcefully by the noble Earl, Lord Aaron that the purpose's framework

:05:25. > :05:30.come pricing a mission statement, six public purpose, purpose remit,

:05:31. > :05:34.purpose priority, and very detailed service licenses, was far too

:05:35. > :05:39.complex. When the director general came before the committee, we were

:05:40. > :05:44.shown the huge stack of forms and submissions, the BBC must complete

:05:45. > :05:49.to fulfil these multiple requirement, all this complexity we

:05:50. > :05:52.concluded makes practical assessment of the BBC's performance more

:05:53. > :05:58.difficult. We recommended a much simpler and transparent approach. We

:05:59. > :06:02.liked the distillation of the BBC's objectives the as set out by Lord

:06:03. > :06:07.Reith to inform, educate and entertain. And we recommend than the

:06:08. > :06:14.status of these Reethian principles should be reaffirmed at the BBC's

:06:15. > :06:19.overarching mission. We recommended scrapping the current six public

:06:20. > :06:25.purposes and felt instead the BBC should adopt the four general public

:06:26. > :06:31.service broadcaster purposes which apply to all PSP broadcaster, to

:06:32. > :06:37.ITV, champion four, Channel 5 as well as the BBC but with the BBC

:06:38. > :06:43.setting the gold standard. Its special status and funding through a

:06:44. > :06:47.universal license fee gives the BBC, we maintained, unique only

:06:48. > :06:52.investigations to its audience, it should reflect the different

:06:53. > :06:59.opinion, lifestyles, beliefs and values, of the UK's nations,

:07:00. > :07:03.regions, and diverse communities. Indeed we dared to suggest a fourth

:07:04. > :07:10.dimen should be the Reethian mission, so this might become to

:07:11. > :07:17.inform, educate, entertain and reflect, dimension. We went on the

:07:18. > :07:23.propose the abolition of the purpose priorities the and recommended a

:07:24. > :07:27.full review of the services licenses, with a view to these being

:07:28. > :07:31.simplified and strengthened. Defining clearly what is expected of

:07:32. > :07:36.each service, while still encouraging creativity, we were not

:07:37. > :07:41.letting the BBC off the hook. We felt it should be firmly held to

:07:42. > :07:45.account, for any noncompliance with the service license, and these

:07:46. > :07:50.should be reviewed more frequently than the current review held every

:07:51. > :07:55.five years. To assist this process, we were clear that the independent

:07:56. > :08:01.regulator should be provided with a comprehensive account of the BBC's

:08:02. > :08:04.spending by genre, for children's programme, new, drama, current

:08:05. > :08:09.affairs, etc, this information was made available to the committee, but

:08:10. > :08:13.because of its commercial sensitivity could not be published

:08:14. > :08:18.more widely. In looking at this, in other evidence weeks pressed some

:08:19. > :08:24.concern at the downward trend in the BBC's investment in current affair,

:08:25. > :08:28.spurred on by the noble Baroness, we understood line the importance the

:08:29. > :08:32.BBC continuing to fund adequately it output at the leader of in the field

:08:33. > :08:37.of children's programmes. We noted with concern a decrease in spending

:08:38. > :08:42.on arts, and we emphasised the important role the BBC in

:08:43. > :08:47.stimulating creativity in cultural exercise, particularly in the field

:08:48. > :08:53.of music and drama, and through training, and developing talent. We

:08:54. > :08:56.noted the criticism that the BBC was too London-centric and we commended

:08:57. > :09:02.the steps taken to address this by moving production to other city, we

:09:03. > :09:06.were impressed by the impact of the BBC's investment in Sam forked's'dia

:09:07. > :09:11.city, which we visited -- Salford. We heard from a number of witness,

:09:12. > :09:15.particularly a panel of young people, that the BBC did not

:09:16. > :09:22.sufficiently reflect their lives or the lives of those with disabilities

:09:23. > :09:26.or those within BA MA communities, we noticed the BBC recognised its

:09:27. > :09:34.deficiencies an we expect to see marked improvement. We heard

:09:35. > :09:39.concerns about decline across broads canning in religious programmes

:09:40. > :09:45.which the Bishop of Chelmsford made today. We say they should may Tain

:09:46. > :09:49.the quality an content of out put. Noble Lords will not be surprised to

:09:50. > :09:53.know we welcomed Government funding for it will World Service an we

:09:54. > :09:58.endorse the crucial role the BBC plays in the UK's culture influence,

:09:59. > :10:02.and soft power on the world stage. Turning to our second area of

:10:03. > :10:07.interest, the BBC scale and scope, it is true that the BBC has already

:10:08. > :10:13.had to cut back and find significant savings. We noted in today's global

:10:14. > :10:18.economy, the BBC is really quite small, compared in particular to

:10:19. > :10:23.American players such as Amazon and Netflix. We heard no convincing case

:10:24. > :10:28.for a significant reduction in the scale or scope of the BBC. Nor did

:10:29. > :10:33.we accept arguments that the BBC should be restricted to remedying

:10:34. > :10:38.gaps, for which the commercial market does not provide. We were

:10:39. > :10:46.clear that its out put should bring benefits to all license fee payer

:10:47. > :10:52.and don't to be a universal broadcaster. More over in the

:10:53. > :10:57.changing world of the digital age, we recognise that the BBC had an

:10:58. > :11:00.important role as an non-commercial contributors to development

:11:01. > :11:05.innovative technologies like the iPlayer, but also to delivering its

:11:06. > :11:10.content online. When we came to our third theme, with process for

:11:11. > :11:17.setting the level of the license fee, strong views were expressed to

:11:18. > :11:23.us about the deal struck behind closed doors, in July 2015. Most of

:11:24. > :11:27.the evidence was highly critical of the Government's proposal and the

:11:28. > :11:32.BBC's acceptance that the cost of funding free television licenses for

:11:33. > :11:37.the over-75s, should come out of cuts to other spending by the BBC.

:11:38. > :11:41.We recommended instead, that in future the process should be out in

:11:42. > :11:45.the open with widespread consultation before any such deals

:11:46. > :11:50.are done. We spelled out a detailed process, for setting the license

:11:51. > :11:55.fee, or indeed a household Levy if that was introduced.

:11:56. > :12:01.The independent regulator would make an evidence based recommendation to

:12:02. > :12:03.the secretary of state for Culture, Media and Sport, the Secretary of

:12:04. > :12:10.State would have an op obligation to do this or publish the reasons for

:12:11. > :12:13.not doing so, the relay for would be allowed to submit an amended

:12:14. > :12:16.recommendation but not a third one, the Secretary of State would have

:12:17. > :12:21.the final say, and as now, Parliament would be asked to approve

:12:22. > :12:29.a statutory instrument. Finally on the time, of the Charter

:12:30. > :12:33.Review process, we recommended a decoupling from the five yearly

:12:34. > :12:37.general election cycle. The present timings could lead to overhasty

:12:38. > :12:43.decision making soon after an election, we also noted that the

:12:44. > :12:48.impartiality and independence of the BBC could be compromised by a shore

:12:49. > :12:53.charter period. There would be a Sword of Damocles hanging over the

:12:54. > :12:58.BBC, with an ever present threat of an imminent new charter. More over

:12:59. > :13:02.over we recognise the considerable financial management burden of more

:13:03. > :13:06.frequent Charter Review, we were persuaded therefore, that the

:13:07. > :13:12.charter period should be no shorter than the current ten years. Which

:13:13. > :13:16.provides the BBC, and the wider creative industries that depend upon

:13:17. > :13:21.the BBC, with the necessary stability for longer term planning.

:13:22. > :13:25.But to avoid coinciding with the cycle of general election, we

:13:26. > :13:32.recommended the next charter should be for 11 years, with a ten year

:13:33. > :13:36.period thereafter. My Lord's, we did not shirk from recommending an

:13:37. > :13:42.enhanced framework of accountability for the BBC and I think it sits well

:13:43. > :13:44.with the recommendations from the review and the DCMS committee for

:13:45. > :13:59.regulation. We were unanimously opposed to

:14:00. > :14:02.diminution of the BBC. We will want transparency in the setting of

:14:03. > :14:07.licence fee and one an 11 year Charter period next time. Lighting

:14:08. > :14:10.criticism for these some aspects of the BBC behaviour in the past, I

:14:11. > :14:17.will report was overwhelmingly supportive and appreciative of the

:14:18. > :14:22.BBC. It is indeed a national treasure, an institution from which

:14:23. > :14:29.all of us gain so much, and can rightly feel a genuine sense of

:14:30. > :14:38.national pride. I beg to move. The question is that the motion be

:14:39. > :14:40.agreed to. Milos, firstly I congratulate the honourable ember

:14:41. > :14:47.Lord Best and indeed the committee on this report, and I can catch the

:14:48. > :14:50.noble Lord on the leadership of the communications committee and the way

:14:51. > :14:53.he is just introduced his report and I must say I found myself in

:14:54. > :14:57.agreement with virtually everything that he said. It is an important

:14:58. > :15:01.report, and I hope that the government will follow its

:15:02. > :15:05.proposals. I particularly in doors what the committee has said on the

:15:06. > :15:10.principles and guidance of Lord Rees, which is clear and above all,

:15:11. > :15:14.offensive, that the aim of the BBC should be to inform, educate and

:15:15. > :15:21.entertain, and even reflect, which has been added to. Each is

:15:22. > :15:25.important. I have always been most supportive of the aim to inform,

:15:26. > :15:31.meaning that the BBC should provide the best possible objective news

:15:32. > :15:40.coverage. A duty which to my mind and in spite of all the sniping, I

:15:41. > :15:43.think they fulfil excellently. I think the pain also to entertain

:15:44. > :15:47.must be recognised, there should be no question of that been jettisoned,

:15:48. > :15:52.so that the commercial sector can fill the gap. We all know what the

:15:53. > :16:00.result of the next stage of that would be, it would be an assault on

:16:01. > :16:08.the licence fee, on the basis that the BBC was not reaching the whole

:16:09. > :16:14.of the nation. My Lords, the report begins by going back to 1927, the

:16:15. > :16:21.formation of the BBC. But there is actually a staple for that. In 1925,

:16:22. > :16:26.an all-party broadcasting committee set up by the government proposed

:16:27. > :16:29.that and I quote eight public corporation should be set up to act

:16:30. > :16:34.as a trustee for the national interest in broadcasting. And added,

:16:35. > :16:48.that the corporation should be set up by statute. Ministers didn't like

:16:49. > :16:51.the idea of them not being in the drivers, didn't like the idea of

:16:52. > :16:56.being statute, because that meant putting things do both houses, and

:16:57. > :16:59.they said it would become a preacher of Parliament, to quote their

:17:00. > :17:04.phrase. So they brought forward the proposal that it should be under a

:17:05. > :17:10.Royal Charter, and thus it became a creature of government. The Royal

:17:11. > :17:17.Charter gave the government the ability to evade Parliament, and the

:17:18. > :17:23.powerful minister to do what they like. That is what the water other

:17:24. > :17:30.means, it the power to the executive, and that is the position

:17:31. > :17:35.that we basically have today, the government may make fundamental

:17:36. > :17:37.changes, but without the inconvenience of getting

:17:38. > :17:41.Parliamentary approval. And how do they defend this indefensible

:17:42. > :17:49.position? They say as my noble friend said only on Tuesday, and I

:17:50. > :17:53.quote, for nearly 90 years, a Royal Charter has been the constitutional

:17:54. > :18:01.basis of the BBC underlying the independence of the BBC from

:18:02. > :18:05.political interference. I make absolutely no criticism of my noble

:18:06. > :18:11.friend who is one of our very best ministers, and I underlined that,

:18:12. > :18:14.but this is the consistent line of the Department of culture and has

:18:15. > :18:21.been for the last decade and probably more, even when they say

:18:22. > :18:27.they are protecting the BBC from political interference, that really

:18:28. > :18:30.is the greatest nonsense. The political interference comes not

:18:31. > :18:34.from Parliament, it comes from government. The worst political

:18:35. > :18:44.interference is the interference of government ministers, and so it has

:18:45. > :18:50.been over the last few decades. My Lords, I wasn't... It wasn't

:18:51. > :18:57.Parliament who handed over to the BBC a ?600 million bill for free

:18:58. > :19:05.television for the 07 divides. It was the government. -- over seven

:19:06. > :19:07.divides. The government is notorious for interfering politically. Unless

:19:08. > :19:13.one understand and accept that then I don't think we'll make a great

:19:14. > :19:18.amount of progress. Let us recognise that quite irrespective of party all

:19:19. > :19:24.government and prime ministers have their views. I remember the noble

:19:25. > :19:30.Lady Thatcher, she made no effort to disguise her scepticism. At the

:19:31. > :19:35.dinner of the government, I remember her saying that if she was ever

:19:36. > :19:42.detected to say selling nice about the BBC, Dennis soon be persuaded

:19:43. > :19:49.her out of it. It was just the occasion! Following the last

:19:50. > :19:58.election, all kinds of threatening noises time from number ten that now

:19:59. > :20:03.was the time to take on the BBC. And of course, suspicion and antipathy

:20:04. > :20:11.BBC reporting is not confined to one party. Howard Wilson was not

:20:12. > :20:14.renowned as a great supporter of the independence of the British board

:20:15. > :20:17.operation, and even more up-to-date, nor was Tony Blair and Alistair

:20:18. > :20:22.Campbell. There were beside themselves with rage about the

:20:23. > :20:31.corporation's coverage of the Iraq war. So, the last charter in review

:20:32. > :20:37.in 2005, a number of us were on that committee, which looked at the

:20:38. > :20:40.charter then, they invented the BBC trust, and they deliberately at the

:20:41. > :20:53.top of the BBC divided responsibility. So, when the GC MS

:20:54. > :20:57.say they do that the charter has and I quote served us so well for 90

:20:58. > :21:08.years, I think we are entitled to save just who you kidding? -- the

:21:09. > :21:16.DCMS. In 1995I was chairman of the committee looking at the renewal of

:21:17. > :21:20.the BBC, the BBC trust, dividing at the top of the corporation. We

:21:21. > :21:25.rejected the proposal! That of course had not the slightest impact

:21:26. > :21:29.on the decision whatsoever. The government, using their charter

:21:30. > :21:34.powers, imposed it, and now ten years later, can one see what is

:21:35. > :21:40.happening? What is happening now? It is that it is going to be abolished

:21:41. > :21:43.at as a bold step by the new government. Goodness knows what the

:21:44. > :21:50.cost to the taxpayer is of this fruitless adventure, and this is the

:21:51. > :21:54.direct product of the Royal Charter that has served us so well. My

:21:55. > :22:01.Lords, the only sensible question to be asked now is what we can do about

:22:02. > :22:05.it, and it seems to me that there are two possible courses. You could

:22:06. > :22:10.turn the BBC into a statutory corporation like Channel 4. That

:22:11. > :22:16.actually has very substantial attractions. It means with Channel

:22:17. > :22:21.4, for example, fundamental twinges, would have to be approved by

:22:22. > :22:26.parliament. It means that if you wanted to privatise Channel 4 and

:22:27. > :22:30.there are rumours of that kind, you have two introduce primary

:22:31. > :22:35.legislation through both houses of both Parliament. Now I am not a whip

:22:36. > :22:43.but I wouldn't give too many chances of that surviving all that. It does

:22:44. > :22:47.mean that if the government had the slightest sense, they wouldn't

:22:48. > :22:51.attempt such action, so it is a great check upon the power of

:22:52. > :22:57.governments to act. That is one course. The alternative is to make

:22:58. > :23:00.the charter changes subject to approval by both Houses of

:23:01. > :23:05.parliament, in this way, the BBC trust proposal would have had to

:23:06. > :23:12.come to Parliament and would have had to approach be approved by both

:23:13. > :23:20.houses. That is an alternative, less elaborate perhaps way of doing it,

:23:21. > :23:25.and my noble friend Lord Lester, the noble Lord Lord Lester, he is my

:23:26. > :23:32.friend as well, I will allow him to set that out. The point is the

:23:33. > :23:38.charter as a noun stands means either fundamental reform or total

:23:39. > :23:42.abolition. It is utterly undemocratic, makes a nonsense of

:23:43. > :23:47.parliamentary sovereignty, and hands all power to ministers, and I will

:23:48. > :23:54.would not have thought that anyone in that -- in this country really

:23:55. > :23:59.wants. My Lords I will not try to cover the whole of the BBC, but in

:24:00. > :24:05.conclusion that Lambie just to say this. I am passionately in favour of

:24:06. > :24:13.an independent BBC, free from government interference will stop a

:24:14. > :24:18.BBC with a place in the world, and a strong BBC World Service. A BBC

:24:19. > :24:22.where news reporting is put high, and reporting skills of

:24:23. > :24:28.correspondence are properly valued. A BBC with a licence fee, and not

:24:29. > :24:33.some subscription model. A BBC which is subject to check but not the

:24:34. > :24:38.check of the BBC trust, particularly when we have a perfectly good

:24:39. > :24:44.regulator in Ofcom. And of course above all, perhaps, a BBC where the

:24:45. > :24:47.director-general and an independent board to make the decisions

:24:48. > :24:55.regarding corporation inside the budget that they have and are given.

:24:56. > :25:03.My Lords, what I do not want is a board for the BBC to be set up and

:25:04. > :25:08.to include and the consisting of government placements of one kind or

:25:09. > :25:16.another. But I do not want fully BBC. -- that I do not want for the

:25:17. > :25:26.BBC. What I think we should have is five-year reviews, also, which would

:25:27. > :25:30.mean that the BBC is constantly under threat of review and the

:25:31. > :25:34.threat of change. -- I do not want five-year reviews. Government's

:25:35. > :25:37.involvement with therefore becomes greater rather than less, and that

:25:38. > :25:44.is not what the public in this country what you want. My hope is

:25:45. > :25:47.the government will recognise the importance of the BBC and its

:25:48. > :25:54.national and its international reputation, and my hope is that the

:25:55. > :25:56.government see to strengthen the BBC not to weaken it, and my hope is

:25:57. > :26:02.also that the government would follow the advice of this excellent

:26:03. > :26:10.report from the Communications committee, and implement their

:26:11. > :26:13.proposals within it. My Lords, I too welcome this opportunity of this

:26:14. > :26:18.debate, like Lord Fowler, and I'm grateful to Lord Best of committee

:26:19. > :26:25.for their sterling work. It is not the first time I have followed a

:26:26. > :26:29.speech from Lord Fowler on this topic and climate of agreeing with

:26:30. > :26:33.all of his words. Having shed the joint scrutiny committee from the

:26:34. > :26:38.2003 communications Beale, I'm keenly aware of the complexities of

:26:39. > :26:42.any discussion on this issue. I would like to declare an interest. I

:26:43. > :26:46.am chairing an ongoing enquiry into the future of Public Service

:26:47. > :26:53.Broadcasting generally, not just the BBC, and we intend to report in

:26:54. > :27:01.June. This committee bug report we are debating today is extremely

:27:02. > :27:04.helpful. I was forced -- it was somewhat narrower than the debate

:27:05. > :27:08.deserves that this rather late stage in the process. I welcome its focus

:27:09. > :27:13.on public purpose, the support for a far more transparent purpose of

:27:14. > :27:18.setting up the license bill, and its positions of emotion of the BBC

:27:19. > :27:22.being any form of market failure broadcaster. I strongly support the

:27:23. > :27:26.conclusion that there is no need no justification for contestable

:27:27. > :27:32.funding, let alone further top slicing of the BBC's resources for

:27:33. > :27:36.other purposes. The reports remit did not allow it to address the

:27:37. > :27:39.issues of governance, and funding more generally. It suggested

:27:40. > :27:42.scrapping a good deal of the framework without putting in place

:27:43. > :27:50.anything substantive beyond supporting Ofcom's definition of

:27:51. > :27:55.PSP. For me, the crucial issue that anyone seriously interested in the

:27:56. > :27:57.democracy is to focus on the overriding importance of the

:27:58. > :28:11.corporation independence. The future cannot be business as

:28:12. > :28:13.usual, the need is to restore faith in the process and to do so the

:28:14. > :28:18.Government Mr Mitchell at its support for meaningful independence

:28:19. > :28:21.in its approach to appointments. As we are currently seeing, governments

:28:22. > :28:25.of all persuasions can and do use the prospect of charge review and

:28:26. > :28:28.its associated funding decisions to put pressure on the BBC. For a

:28:29. > :28:33.democracy such as ours I believe this to be a thoroughly unhealthy

:28:34. > :28:37.state of affairs, and surely, my Lords, after almost a century of

:28:38. > :28:41.extraordinary access the time has come for the BBC to be constituted

:28:42. > :28:46.on a more secure and permanent basis. I will therefore be avidly

:28:47. > :28:51.supporting Lord Lester in arguing in favour of replacing the present

:28:52. > :28:54.Charter system by placing the BBC on a statutory footing, if necessary

:28:55. > :29:00.through the new act of Parliament. The recent review of the BBC's

:29:01. > :29:02.governance and legislation was right to highlight the problems BBC Trust

:29:03. > :29:08.has experienced since it replaced the governors as the corporation's

:29:09. > :29:12.sovereign body. As Sir David noticed the trust has completed governance

:29:13. > :29:16.with regulation and as a result as often been hard to tell who has been

:29:17. > :29:23.in charge, the executive or the trust. I'm sure I was not the only

:29:24. > :29:26.Member of the House who was disappointed to read Sir David's

:29:27. > :29:31.suggestion that government could appoint six out of the 13 unitary

:29:32. > :29:36.board members. It is even more disturbing to hear the Conservative

:29:37. > :29:40.Secretary of State to suggest it is perfectly that it for the Government

:29:41. > :29:44.to appoint a significant majority of board members. Given that the green

:29:45. > :29:47.paper claims, and I quote: the independence of the BBC is

:29:48. > :29:51.absolutely central to its mission, then surely any proposal to increase

:29:52. > :29:54.government influence of what is intended to be a powerful and

:29:55. > :30:00.influential body, suggests precisely the opposite. At the very least, the

:30:01. > :30:05.process should resemble that of Channel 4, nine of who is 13 board

:30:06. > :30:10.members, I am deputy chairman, nine of who is Boardman Lambert are

:30:11. > :30:14.appointed by Ofcom, free of any perceptible government influence.

:30:15. > :30:18.I'd like to see a majority of board members selected through a more

:30:19. > :30:25.democratic and imaginative process involving diverse experience from

:30:26. > :30:30.across the country. My Lords, we should all be conscious of a growing

:30:31. > :30:35.disquiet and even an anger over the prospect of a Whittingdale

:30:36. > :30:38.broadcasting Corporation. I prefer, noble Lords to the speech given by

:30:39. > :30:42.the shadow secretary for DC MS on Tuesday of this week in which she

:30:43. > :30:48.excoriated the government for what appeared to be its bullying of the

:30:49. > :30:51.corporation during this current charter reviewing process. For

:30:52. > :30:58.example by floating proposals that would involve the corporation

:30:59. > :31:01.selling its stake in UK TV's burqa of channels stripping BBC worldwide

:31:02. > :31:06.of a third of its profits command also draw the attention of the House

:31:07. > :31:09.to the person who may well be this country's most trusted public

:31:10. > :31:14.figure, Sir David Attenborough, that as he put it the government need to

:31:15. > :31:19.put themselves at arm's-length from the BBC in order to protect its

:31:20. > :31:22.independence. My Lords, the Government has an opportunity to

:31:23. > :31:26.demonstrate its support for the BBC through its deeds rather than its

:31:27. > :31:29.words. Providing the corporation with the security and scale it

:31:30. > :31:34.requires to continue in its role as the fundamental cornerstone for

:31:35. > :31:38.public service information landscape as well as the vital engine room of

:31:39. > :31:42.the UK's ever more successful creative industries. Yes, the BBC

:31:43. > :31:46.needs to enter into new partnerships but they should not be imposed

:31:47. > :31:49.through top slicing, or forcing it to become more distinctive when it's

:31:50. > :31:55.obvious this is simply another way of saying that it should retreat

:31:56. > :31:59.from popular formats. My Lords, for almost 20 years I had the pleasure

:32:00. > :32:04.of sitting on the board of Anglia television. As such, I witnessed at

:32:05. > :32:08.first hand the manner in which ill considered legislation, in this case

:32:09. > :32:13.the 1990 broadcasting act, led to significant and holy ancestry job

:32:14. > :32:18.losses, the evisceration of an excellent regionally -based training

:32:19. > :32:21.structure and general decline in regional pride and identity, and

:32:22. > :32:25.most regrettable of all, the erosion of democratic accountability. My

:32:26. > :32:30.Lords, you only have to consider the dramatically reduced level of

:32:31. > :32:36.visibility of any backbench MP as against the situation 30 years ago,

:32:37. > :32:38.a time when every MP, along with other significant local political

:32:39. > :32:43.figures, could expect to get their views aired across their regions and

:32:44. > :32:48.to their local constituents on at least a quarterly basis. That's what

:32:49. > :32:50.I'm referring to when I refer to ill thought through legislation creating

:32:51. > :32:56.a damaging loss of democratic accountability. I'm pleased,

:32:57. > :33:00.however, my Lords, to report not every senior member of the

:33:01. > :33:03.government shares a lingering antipathy towards the government.

:33:04. > :33:09.Here is what the Chancellor had to say on Radio 4 just two days ago.

:33:10. > :33:12.Britain is a great country, it's the world's fifth-largest economy with

:33:13. > :33:18.the world's best Armed Forces, best health service and best broadcaster.

:33:19. > :33:22.We are the first in the world for soft power thanks to our language,

:33:23. > :33:28.culture and creativity. Unless I'm very much mistaken, my Lords, I

:33:29. > :33:33.don't think Mr Gove was referring to Sky, but who knows? We have been

:33:34. > :33:37.assured that the White Paper on the future of the BBC will be with us

:33:38. > :33:39.shortly. We can only hope it contains measures designed to

:33:40. > :33:42.strengthen public service broadcasting and not to eviscerate

:33:43. > :33:47.it at the behest of its commercial rivals. Indeed, I think we should do

:33:48. > :33:51.more than hope. I'd like to believe that today's debate will be seen as

:33:52. > :33:55.a shot across the bows of any government from any party wishing to

:33:56. > :34:02.bring forward measures that could damage one of this country's two

:34:03. > :34:06.most highly regarded institutions. In a world running short on trust

:34:07. > :34:10.the BBC remains a significantly more credible organisation than any of

:34:11. > :34:14.those who for political or commercial reasons seek to undermine

:34:15. > :34:19.it. Two weeks ago I had the pleasure of chairing an event at Bafta

:34:20. > :34:25.discussing the future of public service broadcasting. At the end of

:34:26. > :34:29.what was a lively session, I suggested that there was such public

:34:30. > :34:31.interest in this area that any attempt by government to undermine

:34:32. > :34:35.the BBC and its independence would be met by a march down Whitehall

:34:36. > :34:40.that would make the countryside Alliance look like a tea party. I

:34:41. > :34:45.sincerely believe that could be the case, I sincerely hope it will be

:34:46. > :34:53.there and I hope the rest of the country would back it. My Lords, I

:34:54. > :34:57.too congratulate noble Lord Lord Best and members of this committee

:34:58. > :35:01.on an excellent and wide-ranging report. I've long been a critical

:35:02. > :35:06.friend of the BBC, believing it to be the best broadcaster in the

:35:07. > :35:11.world, and indeed one of the best gifts of this nation to the world.

:35:12. > :35:16.And the committee's report talks in similar terms, describing the BBC as

:35:17. > :35:20.one of this nation's most treasured institutions, a keystone of British

:35:21. > :35:26.rod casting, respected across the world, and it talks of the BBC

:35:27. > :35:33.playing a central role in the wider creative industries. But, my Lords,

:35:34. > :35:36.it is vital that as the Government finalises its deliberations on a new

:35:37. > :35:42.charter, nothing is done which will undermine the BBC's ability to

:35:43. > :35:46.continue to merit such accolades, and nothing should be done to

:35:47. > :35:52.undermine the independence and impartiality of the BBC. The noble

:35:53. > :35:58.Lord Lord Puttnam said that this should be the top priority, and I

:35:59. > :36:02.entirely agree with him. And the noble Lord Lord Fowler, with a

:36:03. > :36:05.distinguished track record in these areas, talked powerfully about the

:36:06. > :36:11.need to develop mechanisms to reduce government interference in the BBC,

:36:12. > :36:14.and when he speaks later, my noble and learned friend Lord Lester will

:36:15. > :36:21.talk about how he believes statutory underpinning can help and I look

:36:22. > :36:25.forward to hearing his contribution. The committee report makes clear,

:36:26. > :36:29.and I entirely agree with it, that maintaining independence and

:36:30. > :36:35.impartiality will be aided by a new charter which lasts for at least ten

:36:36. > :36:39.years. On Tuesday in your lordship's house I noted that the noble lady

:36:40. > :36:44.the Minister referred to the value of a Royal Charter lasting for what

:36:45. > :36:49.she described as a good period of time. I hope very much that she will

:36:50. > :36:55.accept the committee's recommendation for a minimum 10-year

:36:56. > :36:58.period. Since this will not only help protect the independence and

:36:59. > :37:02.impartiality, but it will also provide security in terms of

:37:03. > :37:06.planning and investment for the BBC, and as the report points out,

:37:07. > :37:11.stability for the wider creative industries that relate to the BBC.

:37:12. > :37:16.But, of course, that security and stability would be undermined if the

:37:17. > :37:22.charter period is set for a good period of time but includes a

:37:23. > :37:27.mid-term review whose scope allows for the unpicking of bits of the

:37:28. > :37:32.charter itself, and I hope we can receive free assurances that that

:37:33. > :37:34.will not be the case. And the report makes one other important

:37:35. > :37:40.recommendation on the length of the charter, suggesting that the next

:37:41. > :37:44.Charter should be and not ten years, to decouple the Charter review

:37:45. > :37:48.process from the General Election cycle, and to allow full

:37:49. > :37:51.consultation and dialogue. I think that is an extremely sensible

:37:52. > :37:56.proposal and I look forward to hearing the noble lady, the

:37:57. > :38:00.Minister's thoughts on it. My Lords, the committee, as we have heard,

:38:01. > :38:04.consciously did not cover the issue of governance of the BBC. Their

:38:05. > :38:08.decision in the words of the report to eschew governments was well

:38:09. > :38:16.founded, given the subsequent announcement of the review. Sir

:38:17. > :38:21.David's review proposed the most radical overhaul of the BBC's

:38:22. > :38:26.governance in its lifetime, ensuring the regulation of the BBC fully

:38:27. > :38:30.passes to an external regulator in Ofcom, while governance being

:38:31. > :38:35.transferred to a new unitary board with executive and nonexecutive

:38:36. > :38:41.directors. Now, my Lords, I oppose the establishment of the BBC Trust,

:38:42. > :38:44.a fruitless venture as the noble Lord Lord Fowler called it. I

:38:45. > :38:49.thought it was entirely wrong to set a better body that sought to be both

:38:50. > :38:55.a flag waver for the BBC and a regulator of the BBC. These two

:38:56. > :38:59.roles are incompatible and Sir David's proposal for an external

:39:00. > :39:04.regulator and a unitary board resolves this conflict and I welcome

:39:05. > :39:09.them. However, like others who have already spoken, I do not believe the

:39:10. > :39:15.independence of the BBC will be achieved if the nonexecutive members

:39:16. > :39:19.of the proposed board our government appointees. The Secretary of State

:39:20. > :39:22.of the CMS said recently that he didn't think the government

:39:23. > :39:25.appointment of BBC non-executives to the board would undermine

:39:26. > :39:29.independence, and pointed out that all 12 of the current members of the

:39:30. > :39:35.BBC Trust were appointed by government. Us DCMS. I think is

:39:36. > :39:39.wrong. The current trust is far less powerful than the proposed unitary

:39:40. > :39:43.board which will set the BBC's editorial direction, make key

:39:44. > :39:51.decisions on programmes and even have a say on how the BBC manages

:39:52. > :39:54.news. Given these important powers to government appointees will

:39:55. > :39:58.understandably lead to accusations that we are creating a state

:39:59. > :40:04.broadcaster and not a public service broadcaster. And a bizarre situation

:40:05. > :40:09.could arise where decisions around how the BBC is reporting government

:40:10. > :40:16.policy, or the action of ministers, is being decided by people appointed

:40:17. > :40:20.by the same government, by the same minister, that simply cannot be

:40:21. > :40:24.acceptable. Channel 4 has a similar board to the one proposed to the BBC

:40:25. > :40:29.and its nonexecutive is our appointed by Ofcom and not by the

:40:30. > :40:33.government. I believe the BBC non-executives should also be

:40:34. > :40:38.appointed by an independent body, whether by Ofcom, or some other

:40:39. > :40:41.independent group. But my Lords, while the report best you'd

:40:42. > :40:44.governance, it has had a great deal to say about the scale and scope of

:40:45. > :40:50.the BBC. There has been much talk about the BBC becoming a market

:40:51. > :40:56.failure only broadcaster, filling the gaps left by other broadcasters.

:40:57. > :41:00.And of the BBC becoming significantly more distinctive. Now,

:41:01. > :41:05.I hope that in their deliberations on this issue the Government will

:41:06. > :41:13.not be influenced by the recent report on the BBC's report and use

:41:14. > :41:18.it to justify going down this particular route because I believe

:41:19. > :41:22.that the report is Ford, framing contrary to all the evidence such as

:41:23. > :41:28.Ofcom tracking data, that BBC One has become less distinctive. But the

:41:29. > :41:35.report also ignores wider public values and why the economic -- wider

:41:36. > :41:37.economic benefits to UK POC. The report looked at what revenue

:41:38. > :41:42.benefits there would be to commercial broadcasting competitors

:41:43. > :41:48.of making the BBC less popular. The revenue benefits that they came up

:41:49. > :41:56.with would be small. ?155 million that they quote which is just one

:41:57. > :42:03.quarter of last year's increase in TV advertising revenues and just a

:42:04. > :42:08.of ITV's pre-tax profits following this route, according to research

:42:09. > :42:13.done by Reuters, PWC and endless analysis, or show that it would have

:42:14. > :42:19.a negative overall impact on the wider UK media sector, let alone for

:42:20. > :42:24.UK plc, for a very small benefit to the BBC's direct competitors. I

:42:25. > :42:28.entirely reject the market failure only approach, and I'm delighted the

:42:29. > :42:32.committee came to the same conclusion. They say, as we heard

:42:33. > :42:35.from the noble Lord Lord Best, we have not heard a convincing case for

:42:36. > :42:41.a significant reduction in the scale or scope of the BBC, and the report

:42:42. > :42:47.concludes that the BBC should not be restricted to remedying apps which

:42:48. > :42:51.the market does not provide, the BBC must continue to be a universal

:42:52. > :42:58.broadcaster providing content which does not simply inform and educate,

:42:59. > :43:04.but also entertains. And in terms of inform, educate and entertain, I

:43:05. > :43:10.entirely support the committee's view is that they should be the

:43:11. > :43:12.basis of the BBC's mission and given greater progress Willey prominence.

:43:13. > :43:16.If this scale and scope of the BBC is to be maintained it needs to

:43:17. > :43:20.receive the appropriate income to achieve it, that means there should

:43:21. > :43:25.be no further top slicing of the BBC's licence fee income and no

:43:26. > :43:31.additional constraints to the BBC's commercial activities. During the

:43:32. > :43:34.Coalition Government I strongly oppose the Conservative proposals to

:43:35. > :43:39.take money from the licence fee to fund free TV licences from the

:43:40. > :43:44.over-75s. I argued that government policies should be funded by the

:43:45. > :43:47.government. I was pleased my Right Honourable friend Nick Clegg vetoed

:43:48. > :43:51.the proposals and it didn't take place. So I'm extremely disappointed

:43:52. > :43:59.that the current government has now gone ahead to the detriment of the

:44:00. > :44:03.BBC. And proposals for further top slicing, or new contestable funding,

:44:04. > :44:07.I believe should be rejected. Such proposals would mean less money for

:44:08. > :44:11.the BBC to spend on its services, create additional bureaucracy and

:44:12. > :44:14.transaction costs, it would risk transferring resources away from

:44:15. > :44:20.advertising free services, and from programmes guaranteed to have high

:44:21. > :44:27.reach and impact. It would run the risk of poor quality programming. My

:44:28. > :44:31.Lords, two thirds of BBC content spend is already contested and that

:44:32. > :44:37.figure is set to increase. There is, therefore, no case for a separate

:44:38. > :44:43.contestable top slice fund from the licence fee, nor is there any case

:44:44. > :44:48.for requiring the BBC to sell off either BBC worldwide or the BBC's

:44:49. > :44:53.stake in UK TV. Both would deprive licence fee payers of the financial

:44:54. > :44:59.and other benefits they currently receive, including funding for high

:45:00. > :45:03.quality programming. My Lords, the BBC is undoubtedly the best

:45:04. > :45:08.broadcaster in the world. And I hope in their Charter negotiations the

:45:09. > :45:10.Government will do nothing to damage that reputation. Heeding the

:45:11. > :45:15.recommendations of the excellent Select Committee report should form

:45:16. > :45:26.an important component of their deliberations, so that we do achieve

:45:27. > :45:29.Reith and not revolution. I speak as a member of the Select Committee

:45:30. > :45:36.that produced this report and must declare an interest as co-chair of

:45:37. > :45:43.the multi-faith standing conference of the BBC on religion and ethics.

:45:44. > :45:48.But also related to that work I do want to speak about the place of

:45:49. > :45:52.faith in public service broadcasting, and indeed speak for

:45:53. > :45:56.all the faith communities in these islands.

:45:57. > :46:07.It has been said that if a mission statement is more than two or three

:46:08. > :46:13.words long, it either means the organisation doesn't really know its

:46:14. > :46:21.purpose or even if it does, no one else will. Let me give you a fewer

:46:22. > :46:29.examples. Girl power, flower power, new Labour, the Big Society, I won't

:46:30. > :46:37.go on. Consequently, a mission statement, if it is to work has to

:46:38. > :46:43.be pithy and memorable. And Lord Reith's inform, educate and

:46:44. > :46:49.entertain does the job and has done the job effectively for a long time.

:46:50. > :46:58.Everyone knows it. And when the last charter renewal purpose landed the

:46:59. > :47:04.BBC with six very wordy and very worth the public purposes, it wasn't

:47:05. > :47:09.doing them a favour. As we, the committee, took evidence on these

:47:10. > :47:14.six public purposes, it was clear that people who came to talk about

:47:15. > :47:19.them didn't really know them very well themselves. I noticed that each

:47:20. > :47:23.person came with their crib sheet to remind themselves of what these

:47:24. > :47:31.purposes were about. They had clearly failed the memorability

:47:32. > :47:37.test. I also noted that these new purposes, while in some senses in

:47:38. > :47:43.possible to disagree with, the word entertain, which is surely a first

:47:44. > :47:49.base requirement for someone actually paying the license fee,

:47:50. > :47:57.didn't appear at all. Hence, the title of our report, Reith Not

:47:58. > :48:02.Revolution. As we look forward to the forthcoming Charter renewal, it

:48:03. > :48:10.is our strong view that the BBC should regroup around this historic

:48:11. > :48:17.vocation. I think we do also want to say that it is good for the BBC to

:48:18. > :48:22.be entertaining. And we do not want public service broadcasting

:48:23. > :48:28.relegated to just those bits of the output that free-market won't

:48:29. > :48:34.deliver. We are, in this country, and rightly proud of the BBC and its

:48:35. > :48:39.place in our national life. It's wider mission through the world

:48:40. > :48:46.Service and its key contribution as part of a vibrant, mixed economy of

:48:47. > :48:51.broadcasting in this country, one that is the envy of many other

:48:52. > :48:58.countries in the world. But we're not without criticism. To those

:48:59. > :49:03.three words which so admirably sum up the whole point of public service

:49:04. > :49:10.broadcasting, we are tentatively adding a fourth. Lord Best has

:49:11. > :49:13.already mentioned it, reflect. And it is to this recommendation that I

:49:14. > :49:22.would like to speak and will limit what I say. Just as the BBC is

:49:23. > :49:30.called to educate, inform and entertain the nation, surely it must

:49:31. > :49:37.reflect the nation as well. And this reflection must be more than merely

:49:38. > :49:42.regional. It is not just about sprinkling the airwaves with

:49:43. > :49:52.Yorkshire, Scouse, Essex or Scottish accents. The UK is still a family of

:49:53. > :49:57.nations and within that a network of regions each with its own culture

:49:58. > :50:05.and identity, but 21st-century Britain is also a network of

:50:06. > :50:13.communities. And many of these communities find their identity in

:50:14. > :50:19.ethnic origin and religious faith, much more than geographic location.

:50:20. > :50:26.This is certainly the case in the East End of London where I serve as

:50:27. > :50:33.a bishop, one of the most multicultural and multi-faith places

:50:34. > :50:38.in the whole of Europe. And having returned yesterday from the 16th

:50:39. > :50:44.meeting of the worldwide Anglican consultative Council where we

:50:45. > :50:50.discussed with Christians from all around the world what it means to be

:50:51. > :50:56.Christian in a world of greatest diversity and great difference, we

:50:57. > :51:01.should also remember that multi-faith and multiculturalism in

:51:02. > :51:05.Britain today also means significant Christian communities from around

:51:06. > :51:13.the world practising their faith here as well as the presence of

:51:14. > :51:21.other faith communities. Going forward, the BBC needs to work

:51:22. > :51:27.harder at being better at reflecting this new multiracial and multi-faith

:51:28. > :51:33.place of Britain. -- face of Britain. In particular, broadcasting

:51:34. > :51:42.needs to be given a much higher priority in educating, informing

:51:43. > :51:49.and, yes, entertaining us with the beauty and challenges of this

:51:50. > :51:53.diversity. However, across the public service broadcasting sector,

:51:54. > :51:58.religious broadcasting has been in decline for quite a long while.

:51:59. > :52:04.Contrary to the assumptions of a largely secular media, religion is

:52:05. > :52:09.not a Private matter, a sort of add-on to the rest of life for

:52:10. > :52:15.people who like that sort of thing. Faith is not a leisure activity.

:52:16. > :52:26.Rather, for those of us who live by faith, religious belief is essential

:52:27. > :52:30.and formation all. A prime motivator of both individuals and communities

:52:31. > :52:36.shaping their world view and inspiring and informing their

:52:37. > :52:43.political, economic, ethical and social behaviour. Our whole nation

:52:44. > :52:48.needs to wake up to this. And if the BBC is to be the broadcaster of the

:52:49. > :52:55.nation and reflect our national life, then it must do, too. This

:52:56. > :53:01.being so, it is hard to comprehend why the BBC has never appointed a

:53:02. > :53:06.religion editor in the same way that it has an editor, an interpreter for

:53:07. > :53:12.business, economics, politics, the arts, sports, etc. In July 2015,

:53:13. > :53:19.Ofcom were voicing similar misgivings, their third review of

:53:20. > :53:25.public service broadcasting identified religious broadcasting as

:53:26. > :53:30.an area of immediate concern. Now, the BBC is still the dominant

:53:31. > :53:34.provider of religious programmes and many of these are excellent and for

:53:35. > :53:42.this I give thanks, but it remains the case that the BBC downgraded the

:53:43. > :53:46.post of head of religion in January 2015 so that the post holder no

:53:47. > :53:55.longer has authority to commission programmes. Commissioning is where

:53:56. > :54:02.the power really lies. And this now sits with non-subject specialists in

:54:03. > :54:08.multi-genre commissioning, a team of history, science, business and

:54:09. > :54:12.religion. This makes strategic decisions about commissioning almost

:54:13. > :54:22.impossible to make and limit the BBC's ability to fulfil its mission.

:54:23. > :54:30.My Lords, at a time when it is nigh on impossible to understand the

:54:31. > :54:35.world and understand what is going on in the world, and understand how

:54:36. > :54:41.best to find solutions for the world so that we can live in peace, it is

:54:42. > :54:48.impossible to do this without an understanding of religion. Those who

:54:49. > :54:55.care about our democracy, as well as those who care about faith, need to

:54:56. > :55:01.press the BBC to answer this question, who has overall

:55:02. > :55:09.responsibility for the range, quantity and quality of religious

:55:10. > :55:14.programming? Since our report, also voices concerns about the downward

:55:15. > :55:21.trend in spending on current affairs, it is not difficult to see

:55:22. > :55:26.how the BBC needs to strengthen its commitment to these areas of

:55:27. > :55:33.broadcasting. Hence the expectation in our report that the BBC maintains

:55:34. > :55:35.its commitment to religious broadcasting, increases its

:55:36. > :55:40.commitments to current affairs and to the arts, and my personal hope,

:55:41. > :55:46.that this is improved upon and the following recommendation, that the

:55:47. > :55:51.BBC as the recipient of the universal licence fee needs its duty

:55:52. > :55:59.to serve all the diverse communities of the UK and that this obligation

:56:00. > :56:11.should be incorporated into any future accountability framework. My

:56:12. > :56:17.Lords, I have the very great pressure to serve on the select them

:56:18. > :56:21.committee on Communications and the distinguished chairmanship of the

:56:22. > :56:25.noble lord Lord Best and I also pay tribute to our assistance and clerks

:56:26. > :56:37.and special adviser to whom he referred. The BBC played a very

:56:38. > :56:40.important part in my life, my childhood and after that. And so I

:56:41. > :56:48.must declare that interest straightaway. Each day at 5pm while

:56:49. > :56:56.I had my tea, I listened to Children's Hour. The Reithian

:56:57. > :57:00.principles of inform, educate and entertain work, so it turned out, to

:57:01. > :57:10.be a bedrock of my formative years. My favourite was Toytown, Larry Lamb

:57:11. > :57:18.and Dennis the- town. I immediately identified with Larry the land,

:57:19. > :57:24.being a shy, mild-mannered child. I did not realise until later in my

:57:25. > :57:28.life that there are so many of these in the world, and even as I

:57:29. > :57:34.discovered, one or two in your Lordships House. I also identified

:57:35. > :57:40.with Norman Henry Bones the boy detectives. I had cousins who were

:57:41. > :57:45.very similar who were Norman and Peter who often looked after me

:57:46. > :57:51.used to let me out of the air raid shelter to see searchlights

:57:52. > :57:55.illuminate the sky and then to listen out for the drone of German

:57:56. > :58:02.bombers on their way to raid the docks at Ipswich. With one strayed,

:58:03. > :58:06.demolishing a House only three or four houses away. I will always

:58:07. > :58:13.remember my cousins wise advice, do not tell your mother, which came in

:58:14. > :58:18.handy in the years to come. On another occasion, one afternoon in

:58:19. > :58:25.the garden I noticed the sky full of planes turning gliders, it seemed

:58:26. > :58:31.ages before they passed and no one could tell me what they were. Later,

:58:32. > :58:38.however, we heard on the news that the gliders had landed at an arm as

:58:39. > :58:43.part of operation market Garden. The BBC's news was an important part of

:58:44. > :58:47.our day. My father was a soldier overseas in North Africa, Italy and

:58:48. > :58:53.then Europe, building bridges. We did not hear from him very often but

:58:54. > :58:59.the BBC will correspondence wove a narrative into which my imagination

:59:00. > :59:05.inserted my father, Winfred Lord Thomas, and others were household

:59:06. > :59:12.names with their brilliant word pictures as the wall progressed from

:59:13. > :59:21.depression to jubilation, and the theme music for plays and serials

:59:22. > :59:33.remains with me. They introduced each part of Ballet Shoes one of the

:59:34. > :59:38.superb serialised books. Who can forget the introductory music to

:59:39. > :59:50.Dick Barton's special agents? The BBC entertained us and at ten past

:59:51. > :59:54.one on Saturday, we laughed, and on Sunday, we were introduced to

:59:55. > :59:59.different communities. As they grow older, the importance of the BBC did

:00:00. > :00:04.not diminish. All children must stare at the night sky and wonder at

:00:05. > :00:10.its enormity, I certainly did, and the programme Journey Into Space

:00:11. > :00:15.promoted that wonder and stimulator to my imagination. Laughter has

:00:16. > :00:19.always been of great importance. I think it brings wisdom and good

:00:20. > :00:25.health and well-being. Laughter and the absurd is part of the groove

:00:26. > :00:36.binding us together and the feature of a civilised society. The Goon

:00:37. > :00:41.show and Hancock 's half hour work related examples of great

:00:42. > :00:45.performances, and that tradition has continued. The sad death yesterday

:00:46. > :00:50.of Victoria Wood is a reminder of a tradition which includes the likely

:00:51. > :00:58.lads, Fawlty Towers and many others. Your Lordships, will have your own

:00:59. > :01:02.favourites. The sheer brilliance of performers, producers and

:01:03. > :01:06.programmers at the BBC has brought entertainment, education and

:01:07. > :01:10.information to me in my lifetime and as we listened to the evidence in

:01:11. > :01:11.committee, I reflected on how fortunate I had

:01:12. > :01:19.been to live through times of enormous technological change such

:01:20. > :01:26.as colour TV, HDE, free view, I and so one. But where the skills of

:01:27. > :01:35.programming had maintained a very high level. Today, the quality and

:01:36. > :01:41.creativity have never been higher. The ability to market programmes

:01:42. > :01:46.such as these are worldwide provides an essential stream of income for

:01:47. > :01:50.the BBC and North 's not be tossed back must not be harmed or

:01:51. > :01:58.diminished. Wherever I go around the world I hear accolades of the BBC. I

:01:59. > :02:03.do not think we appreciate how significant this power is. There

:02:04. > :02:07.were many criticism, of course, and we met a focus group of young

:02:08. > :02:11.people, some of whom told us they thought the BBC did not represent

:02:12. > :02:16.minorities and they did not see their own lives reflected on the

:02:17. > :02:22.screen. Lord Hall for the BBC replied he was seeking to make a

:02:23. > :02:29.real difference on the any representation both on screen and

:02:30. > :02:33.behind it. We expect the BBC to honour its commitment and encourage

:02:34. > :02:39.regional development. We were impressed by Salford quays, and

:02:40. > :02:46.Birmingham and Cardiff. The BBC has become less London centric and this

:02:47. > :02:52.must continue. We did not believe the BBC should be restricted to

:02:53. > :02:57.remedying gaps for which the market does not provide, and on the

:02:58. > :03:02.contrary concluded the BBC must continue to be a universal

:03:03. > :03:06.broadcaster providing content, that also entertains.

:03:07. > :03:12.We have no evidence to support the claim that the BBC crowded out

:03:13. > :03:17.commercial competition. On the contrary we received evidence of the

:03:18. > :03:24.positive benefits of the wider discovering of developing of talent

:03:25. > :03:29.and the encouragement of training. We were not persuaded the BBC should

:03:30. > :03:34.reduce the scale or scope of its operations either in the United

:03:35. > :03:38.Kingdom or overseas. Others have described recommendations on the

:03:39. > :03:46.licence fee and Charter period with which I totally agree. My Lords, I

:03:47. > :03:53.end as I began. The BBC has played an important part in my life and it

:03:54. > :04:00.continues to do so. I was once a part-time sheep farmer and each day

:04:01. > :04:04.I begin by listening to Farming Today and having Spencer May my time

:04:05. > :04:09.here today in your lordship's house I end with today in Parliament,

:04:10. > :04:16.sometimes enraged, sometimes entertained but always a little more

:04:17. > :04:22.educated and informed. The BBC, one of our greatest assets, nothing

:04:23. > :04:27.should be done to harm it. I declare an interest as a producer

:04:28. > :04:31.and director in BBC television and I'm very grateful for the kind words

:04:32. > :04:36.that have been said about the content that my colleagues produce,

:04:37. > :04:42.we do indeed try and informed, educate and entertain. And like to

:04:43. > :04:46.congratulate the report stressing the importance of the BBC as an

:04:47. > :04:49.independent, well funded public service broadcaster. I'm pleased

:04:50. > :04:54.with the emphasis given in chapter two to the importance of strong,

:04:55. > :04:58.independent regulator for the BBC, and I too understand why the report

:04:59. > :05:06.didn't look at governance. But I like the noble Lords Lord Puttnam,

:05:07. > :05:11.Lord Foster and Lord Fowler and concerned at about the assumption in

:05:12. > :05:13.paragraph of the report about the statutory governments of the

:05:14. > :05:19.Corporation being this place. The White Paper, I understand, is

:05:20. > :05:24.proposing to set up a unitary board combining the present BBC executive

:05:25. > :05:28.board and BBC Trust regulated by Ofcom. What seems to be very

:05:29. > :05:31.important which is what the noble Lord, Lord Foster explained, was

:05:32. > :05:35.this unitary board will be more powerful than the Trust, so much

:05:36. > :05:43.more powerful than the Trust, it will control the BBC's strategy, and

:05:44. > :05:46.editorial guidance, and day-to-day broadcast of the BBC, drafting and

:05:47. > :05:51.approving editorial guidelines, maintaining editorial standards and

:05:52. > :05:55.editorial complaints unless they are appealed to Ofcom. The Trust has

:05:56. > :06:00.nowhere near such editorial influence. As a result the board of

:06:01. > :06:08.this body has got to be absolutely independent. So it can be accused to

:06:09. > :06:12.being subjected to political interference or pressure. I fear

:06:13. > :06:19.that this independence will not be safeguarded. I too was disappointed

:06:20. > :06:20.by Sir David Clementi's reports suggesting the chairman,

:06:21. > :06:29.vice-chairman and four nonexecutive directors should be appointed by the

:06:30. > :06:33.DCMS. And when I read in the Sunday Times the Culture Secretary saying

:06:34. > :06:36.ten of the 13 members of the unitary board should be appointed by the

:06:37. > :06:41.Government with only three members from the BBC, my concern about the

:06:42. > :06:45.adverse affect about the independence of the BBC was

:06:46. > :06:47.compounded by fears voiced by Sir David Norrington who retired as

:06:48. > :06:51.Commissioner for Public appointments earlier this month. He told the

:06:52. > :06:55.Financial Times this month that without the check and balance of the

:06:56. > :06:58.Liberal Democrats in government, there was a feeling by the present

:06:59. > :07:05.government that if you want to get things done you need to have people

:07:06. > :07:08.who supervises in key roles. He followed this up in his evidence to

:07:09. > :07:13.the public administration committee in he expressed concern following

:07:14. > :07:17.the Government's response to the report, that there is a threat of

:07:18. > :07:21.increased ministerial interference in the selection of public

:07:22. > :07:26.appointments. He said the appointment of the last BBC Trust

:07:27. > :07:29.chair had been well won and was free of ministerial interference.

:07:30. > :07:33.However, he warned that having seen the Government's response to the

:07:34. > :07:39.composer was, such a hands off approach might not be possible in

:07:40. > :07:43.the future. I support Lord Foster and Lord Puttnam's suggestions that

:07:44. > :07:49.they should be an independent body that will appoint the board members.

:07:50. > :07:52.If we fail to do that your Lordships only have to look at the political

:07:53. > :07:55.interference with the appointments of a sickie tips in public service

:07:56. > :08:01.broadcasters that takes place in many partner countries in the EU.

:08:02. > :08:04.Many are appointed director by the government and change when the

:08:05. > :08:09.government changes, or individual channels are controlled by separate

:08:10. > :08:14.parties. These have an influence on the political alliance of the

:08:15. > :08:18.station and means they are not impartial which I'm sure your

:08:19. > :08:23.Lordships would not want to happen. I've got an e-mail this morning from

:08:24. > :08:26.the wife of an opposition leader in Poland, who explained what was

:08:27. > :08:30.happening with the Polish broadcasters. Of course, this is not

:08:31. > :08:34.relevant to what our government proposes but it is a warning of how

:08:35. > :08:38.extremely fragile the independence of public service broadcasters is.

:08:39. > :08:41.The e-mail goes: the Polish government has dismissed the

:08:42. > :08:46.independent board which are supposed to supervise state TV, fired all of

:08:47. > :08:50.the heads of radio and TV, appointed new ones, all such appointments will

:08:51. > :08:55.now be made directly by government ministers and drastically alter the

:08:56. > :09:01.nature of programming. As a result over 100 journalists have been fired

:09:02. > :09:05.or resigned. The result, the meanest style pro-ruling party propaganda of

:09:06. > :09:10.a kind we have not seen in Poland since 1989. Of course, this is not

:09:11. > :09:20.what is going to happen here, but I would urge your Lordships to be

:09:21. > :09:26.aware of what a precious thing is the independence of the BBC. As a

:09:27. > :09:30.former editor at Newsnight I know first-hand what they will do to

:09:31. > :09:35.ensure that their view of the world is projected on the BBC. In my

:09:36. > :09:37.experience this relates to all governments of all political

:09:38. > :09:41.persuasions and I fear that we live in a world in which many people

:09:42. > :09:44.think if you are not with them you must be against them. The BBC and

:09:45. > :09:48.other broadcasters are mandated to be impartial but it's crucial that

:09:49. > :09:55.everything is done to defend that position. This reporter said

:09:56. > :10:00.impartiality is at the core of the BBC. I hope that the minister in

:10:01. > :10:04.preparing for the White Paper will listen very hard to the massive

:10:05. > :10:07.public response to the BBC public trust consultation, in which the

:10:08. > :10:10.people of this country overwhelmingly said they wanted it

:10:11. > :10:15.to be independent and free from political interference. I asked the

:10:16. > :10:19.noble lady what will be done in the White Paper to ensure this happens

:10:20. > :10:27.with the appointments to the new unitary board.

:10:28. > :10:30.My Lords, I too wish to congratulate the Select Committee communications

:10:31. > :10:34.under its excellent share Lord Best, having delivered an exemplary

:10:35. > :10:39.report, both focused in scope and wise in its conclusions, and I

:10:40. > :10:46.concur with much of what has already been said in its favour and support

:10:47. > :10:54.that. It is to be commended to all parliamentarians, especially those

:10:55. > :10:57.eager to see the BBC sold off, or simply shackled. The public, as a

:10:58. > :11:03.recent poll indicated, is not with them. The BBC remains are loved and

:11:04. > :11:07.admired institution by the great majority of those who own it, by

:11:08. > :11:13.which I mean the licence payers of this country. To act in defiance of

:11:14. > :11:18.the expressed opinions would be to damaged one of our national

:11:19. > :11:22.institutions to gratify the self interests of the commercial radio

:11:23. > :11:30.and television Enterprises. My Lords, when I interviewed Lord Reith

:11:31. > :11:37.in this house back in 1970 he was very disapproving of television. He

:11:38. > :11:44.deplored the fact they broadcast Jazz, which he regarded as the music

:11:45. > :11:46.of the devil. He had a distinct preference for educational

:11:47. > :11:51.programmes, those that instilled rigorous Christian principles and

:11:52. > :11:55.behaviour. But of course, he was then a man at the end of his life,

:11:56. > :12:01.to some extent disappointed with that life and embittered about what

:12:02. > :12:05.he had seen happen to broadcasting. But I'm still sure that the younger

:12:06. > :12:11.Reith, that vigorous young man, who pressed ahead with the exploring of

:12:12. > :12:15.television's possibilities in the 1930s in order to be ahead of the

:12:16. > :12:23.Americans, as he said, that he was the defy of government interference,

:12:24. > :12:27.turning away Churchill's emissaries at the time of the national strike.

:12:28. > :12:32.He would be proud of the leading role the BBC plays in sustaining

:12:33. > :12:37.standards in promoting British interests and influence around the

:12:38. > :12:45.globe, and in not having commercial breaks. Lord Reith managed to sum up

:12:46. > :12:53.as we have heard the purpose of the BBC in just one phrase. It can

:12:54. > :12:57.scarcely be better to inform, educate and entertain. Terse, as my

:12:58. > :13:03.Lord Bishop has said, and exact. I did not think it could be improved.

:13:04. > :13:07.However, the suggestion the phrase, and to reflect, by a single word

:13:08. > :13:15.encompasses and enlarges the remit of the BBC, appropriate to the

:13:16. > :13:20.Times, is to be commended. The committee's recommendations covered

:13:21. > :13:24.much but I would just speak to two of them. Having worked within the

:13:25. > :13:30.BBC throughout numerous licence renewal occasions, I know that the

:13:31. > :13:35.prospect throws BBC management into a distracted frenzy of concern.

:13:36. > :13:41.Licence renewal casts a long shadow, distorting the focus and

:13:42. > :13:49.concentration of its managers, heads of Department, channel controllers,

:13:50. > :13:53.and even programme makers. It is an ordeal that lasts years, and when

:13:54. > :13:56.the licence is finally renewed, everyone sits back sighing with

:13:57. > :14:07.relief that the negotiations have gone away for, well, for how long?

:14:08. > :14:10.For a good few years. My Lord, this frenzy is even worse around the time

:14:11. > :14:16.of elections, whether elections are coming up, whether they are just

:14:17. > :14:21.over. Both leading parties, indeed all parties, blame the BBC for the

:14:22. > :14:28.supposed broadcasting bias that robbed them of victory, or even

:14:29. > :14:33.greater success. They can't all be right, but it is a matter of blaming

:14:34. > :14:40.the messenger. And it makes for a climate of resentment and revenge

:14:41. > :14:42.that is no mood in which to address serious and thoughtful

:14:43. > :14:46.considerations over the BBC's future. My Lords, for this reason,

:14:47. > :14:50.for these reasons, I support the committee's recommendations that the

:14:51. > :14:55.Charter only come up for renewal every ten years, and that it is on

:14:56. > :15:03.coupled from that deadly electoral cycle. I think the recommendation is

:15:04. > :15:09.sound and wise and it would allow for considering long-term planning

:15:10. > :15:12.which in the global media world means precise marketing knowledge,

:15:13. > :15:17.and a sense of the rhythm of change to which this industry is subject.

:15:18. > :15:24.The second concern of the committee which I wish to address is this

:15:25. > :15:28.matter of scale and scope. There have been suggestions, mainly from

:15:29. > :15:32.other broadcasting bodies, that the BBC should be limited within its

:15:33. > :15:39.scope, possibly confining itself to the news and current affairs, Sirius

:15:40. > :15:44.documentaries, education, all areas of broadcasting which attract low

:15:45. > :15:47.viewing figures. And therefore they are not prise pickings for

:15:48. > :15:55.commercial companies. This is clearly a pitched to cut the BBC

:15:56. > :15:59.down to size. It would be disastrous for the BBC as a global player. It

:16:00. > :16:03.is essential that its creative heart line is given scope to be inventive

:16:04. > :16:10.across the whole area of human activity. That's where it's genius

:16:11. > :16:16.lies. What other company would have backed a modest idea to encourage

:16:17. > :16:22.people to bake cakes and see it grow into a global format? And once it

:16:23. > :16:28.was successful would such a format be declared beyond the BBC's scope?

:16:29. > :16:38.What happens now? The whole concept is flawed and unworkable. My Lords,

:16:39. > :16:40.the BBC faces change and needs to change. The media landscape is

:16:41. > :16:46.always shifting and it needs the backing of government and of the

:16:47. > :16:48.industry to continue as the flagship of broadcasting it is known to be

:16:49. > :16:58.worldwide. I have only been in your lordship's

:16:59. > :17:02.has 452 years but are used to do media research and I am only hairy

:17:03. > :17:04.Lee I think because of my grandfather. -- I am only here,

:17:05. > :17:21.really. With recommendations as to the

:17:22. > :17:29.conditions under which such services should be offered. Results, the

:17:30. > :17:36.Selsdon report. I had never heard of that, because I wasn't sure why I

:17:37. > :17:39.had a different name from my father. I did do media research quite

:17:40. > :17:47.thoroughly over a period of time and at home we were only allowed to

:17:48. > :17:53.listen to the BBC. In fact, everyone else was bound, including in the

:17:54. > :17:57.early days of television. It was in May 1934 that the government first

:17:58. > :18:01.appointed a committee under the guidance of my grandfather to begin

:18:02. > :18:05.enquiries into the viability of setting up a public television

:18:06. > :18:10.service with recommendations as to the conditions under which the

:18:11. > :18:15.service should be offered. My Lords, I have a tremendous affection for

:18:16. > :18:21.the BBC. I cannot help it. In the days when I did media research, we

:18:22. > :18:25.tended to be influenced ourselves mainly by characters. My Lords, here

:18:26. > :18:29.in your lordship's House, we have a remarkable depth of knowledge and

:18:30. > :18:37.experience but we don't necessarily know each other. There was, and

:18:38. > :18:45.there still is, a BBC advisory Council which goes on and on but the

:18:46. > :18:50.BBC is a global institution, it is not a British institution. If you

:18:51. > :18:53.have been in parts of Africa where in order to encourage local

:18:54. > :18:59.communities to come operate in mind mining or things like that, you hand

:19:00. > :19:04.out the radio to work or they may listen to the BBC, you realise the

:19:05. > :19:11.extent of its coverage and the respect in which it is held. What it

:19:12. > :19:22.does is another matter. With television, it is a fairly fickle

:19:23. > :19:26.and -- difficult matter. We don't have necessarily the media research

:19:27. > :19:32.and depth of marketing that one would expect on a global basis. I do

:19:33. > :19:35.not see why there should not be a special relationship with every

:19:36. > :19:40.Commonwealth country to be able to broadcast programmes daily and

:19:41. > :19:45.constantly write a way around the world, the technology is all ready

:19:46. > :19:51.there and the expertise remains. My Lords, I would like to make a simple

:19:52. > :19:56.suggestion, we need to have a programme, a business plan that we

:19:57. > :20:00.will look at the BBC. I know I am hearing entirely because of my

:20:01. > :20:06.grandfather, I know that I was never allowed to listen to any programme

:20:07. > :20:12.that was not BBC. They couldn't, however, teach me languages. I was

:20:13. > :20:17.sent off to various countries. With that type of respect, I find myself

:20:18. > :20:19.unable to be of much assistance to your Lordships today. However, what

:20:20. > :20:28.I would like the government to give a little bit more attention

:20:29. > :20:33.that in developing Britain British relationships, the BBC could play a

:20:34. > :20:36.more important role than it does today, not least on television and

:20:37. > :20:41.production and syndication of programmes right the way across the

:20:42. > :20:43.world including its value in the learning of English. So waste it

:20:44. > :20:50.down and say thank you to your Lordships will come in here today. I

:20:51. > :20:53.am so surprised that I find out more about myself than I deemed possible

:20:54. > :20:57.and wondered why my grandfather had never told me anything about it and

:20:58. > :21:02.why I was never allowed to watch television until they reached a

:21:03. > :21:06.certain age. I wish the BBC well, I have a great affection for it and

:21:07. > :21:11.that will remain with me until I die. First of all, may I

:21:12. > :21:18.congratulate the noble lord Lord vessel securing this debate at a

:21:19. > :21:27.particularly timely moment. -- Lord best. There is so much I agree with,

:21:28. > :21:34.but if I were to talk about it I would just take, take. In this

:21:35. > :21:38.debate I hope there is room to proceed, to see the BBC not so much

:21:39. > :21:44.through the prism of the review, though that has been mother sleep

:21:45. > :21:53.addressed by previous speakers in detail -- marvellously. But from the

:21:54. > :21:59.general point of view of someone who works with it, as I do, he began his

:22:00. > :22:07.career there in 1961 as a trainee, who listened to the radio in the 40s

:22:08. > :22:14.and in a sense was, if I may use the word, suckled by it and I believe it

:22:15. > :22:18.is a unique force for excellence and cohesion in this country. Currently,

:22:19. > :22:32.the BBC is on tremendous form. Its recent dramas and art pulling off

:22:33. > :22:37.hype ratings and high praise. They have got three out of three so far

:22:38. > :22:42.and it is only April. In the end, the BBC is the sum of its

:22:43. > :22:48.programmes. Panorama row gram on the Panama set up boldly set up the

:22:49. > :22:52.context for a continuing debate. Newsnight had the nerve to bite the

:22:53. > :22:58.hand that feeds all could starve it and has wounded it already with its

:22:59. > :23:08.pees on Mr Whittingdale. The news struggles with impartiality and

:23:09. > :23:19.balancing some arguments that it is still walking the tightrope

:23:20. > :23:23.admirably. Above the noise, there is the even beat of the five national

:23:24. > :23:27.and many regional radio channels that perhaps more than any

:23:28. > :23:32.productions, best represent the muscle, pulse and the mind of this

:23:33. > :23:41.nation. Wherever there are debates on the BBC, as we mentioned, and I

:23:42. > :23:46.have taken part in many dozen, always, there is a wholly convincing

:23:47. > :23:52.majority for supporting BBBC. I see no demonstrations about the BBC in

:23:53. > :23:57.our streets, where in our country there would be demonstrations about

:23:58. > :24:03.the removal of a bus stop. It encourages a multitude of writers,

:24:04. > :24:07.actors, producers, directors, talent in radio and television which is the

:24:08. > :24:10.cornerstone of the cultural power that this country undoubtedly has at

:24:11. > :24:21.the moment and no other country has it. It is comparatively inexpensive

:24:22. > :24:25.and works magnificently and delivers for this country and is still

:24:26. > :24:30.recognisably inside the discipline of Lord Reith. But we seem to exist

:24:31. > :24:34.in an atmosphere of permanent crisis about the future of the BBC. From

:24:35. > :24:46.the government and also from parts of the media as if it were a

:24:47. > :24:57.patient. Most averse to not see what the fuss is about. -- most of us.

:24:58. > :25:01.Some grievances need to be addressed, such as the Imperial

:25:02. > :25:05.growth of the BBC disturbs the unsubsidised parts of our economy

:25:06. > :25:15.and the BBC is right to be much more aware of it more than ever before.

:25:16. > :25:22.The BBC is so fast in its output that it is not too difficult to pick

:25:23. > :25:27.up or embellish stories, and ensure in certain knowledge that the

:25:28. > :25:34.compelling letters BBC will draw readers attention to the content of

:25:35. > :25:38.that story. It is at once a national treasure and a national dartboard, a

:25:39. > :25:46.dual role. It is argued by some the BBC's fundamental similarity, or

:25:47. > :25:54.peculiarity, is an affront to the prevailing capitalism of the day,

:25:55. > :25:57.and in some ways it does interfere. All, it is a stimulator in

:25:58. > :26:00.alternative, adding to the variety of this country, it's richness,

:26:01. > :26:20.oppositional argument. It furthers the roles of others,

:26:21. > :26:28.tempers and enriches with the competition of the BBC. This country

:26:29. > :26:37.is and always has been, a place of tribes. Ethnically different,

:26:38. > :26:43.culturally diverse. In Ireland -- Islands bounded by and bonded by the

:26:44. > :26:47.seas. Many have tried and failed to reach out to all jostling, sometimes

:26:48. > :26:51.rival groups, over the centuries and through democracy we have finally

:26:52. > :26:58.arrived at April double though fragile method of inclusion. BBBC's

:26:59. > :27:06.democratic inclusiveness is not only a strength, it is its purpose. We

:27:07. > :27:11.want the best in our society and despite catcalls from the galleries,

:27:12. > :27:17.several of our institutions try and can succeed in bringing together the

:27:18. > :27:22.existing and new tribes. The BBC does what it does with style and

:27:23. > :27:27.consistency and force, bringing together majorities and minorities

:27:28. > :27:31.watching the same programmes or live events. Most of all, the BBC is a

:27:32. > :27:36.statement of public service, that phrase has seen its meaning weakened

:27:37. > :27:54.over the years. Pro bono publico has not gone away,

:27:55. > :27:59.millions of people in this country is still alive to it, still working

:28:00. > :28:03.by it, still believing that to work is one thing and to serve the public

:28:04. > :28:06.is another and they needn't be separate. You could say that

:28:07. > :28:11.especially today that we see the monarchy under Her Majesty Queen

:28:12. > :28:17.Elizabeth II as a symbol of public service and the admiration, even

:28:18. > :28:20.reference, is to do with the palpable sense of service to the

:28:21. > :28:25.public. The BBC still remains despite its gas, being treated by

:28:26. > :28:33.the government as it cash cow for social policies, a symbol this

:28:34. > :28:37.country craves. People want to return to what they think of us

:28:38. > :28:45.living properly. What Orwell called the decency of these people. Of

:28:46. > :28:49.course, this includes us. We have to create wealth, make a living and

:28:50. > :28:55.constructor complexes sired two bit wheels are needed in element of

:28:56. > :29:03.something else, perhaps the word better might serve.

:29:04. > :29:10.But is it unfettered by the demands of making and getting? Independent

:29:11. > :29:14.and the name of all of us without which we would be so much poorer and

:29:15. > :29:18.it would be so much less of a place. If it is chipped away as the BBC is

:29:19. > :29:22.chipped away, as some people out there want it to be chipped away, we

:29:23. > :29:25.will be much less and we will have lost what has been so strenuously

:29:26. > :29:30.built-up, cherished and loved over many decades, that is something

:29:31. > :29:39.unique something which Lord Best said at the beginning of this

:29:40. > :29:42.debate, we can be, and are, proud. My Lords, like Olmo bull Lords who

:29:43. > :29:50.have spoken so far in the debate, I congratulate Lord Best and his

:29:51. > :29:53.committee -- like all noble Lords. On his excellent report. Continuing

:29:54. > :29:57.uncertainty about the Government's plans is very harmful to the BBC and

:29:58. > :30:03.to the public interest. The continual uncertainty at the

:30:04. > :30:08.Government's dumping of the cost of free licensing for the over-75s on

:30:09. > :30:15.the BBC rather than taxpayers have undermined morale within the BBC, as

:30:16. > :30:21.well as public trust and confidence. The Dominant is likely to replace

:30:22. > :30:25.the BBC Trust with a new unitary board as recommended by Sir David

:30:26. > :30:29.Clementi. The new board will have executive functions relating to the

:30:30. > :30:34.content of its broadcasts. That makes it essential that the chair,

:30:35. > :30:42.deputy chair, and other members of the board are independent and

:30:43. > :30:44.manifestly seem to be independent. It is essential they are

:30:45. > :30:52.independently appointed without ministerial influence. Lord Hall has

:30:53. > :30:57.rightly said that the BBC needs regulation that is effective but not

:30:58. > :31:02.prescriptive. He's emphasised the importance of protecting the BBC's

:31:03. > :31:07.independence, recalling that Willie Whitelaw gave the BBC a 15 year

:31:08. > :31:15.Charter. The Government should follow that example for the next 11

:31:16. > :31:21.years. What we call a Royal Charter is really a ministerial Charter.

:31:22. > :31:24.It's a Charter shaped by ministers using the prerogative powers

:31:25. > :31:30.inherited from the Crown. We speak of Parliamentary sovereignty as the

:31:31. > :31:33.cornerstone of the British constitution, but it is ministers

:31:34. > :31:39.and not Parliament that determine the scope and effect of the Charter.

:31:40. > :31:44.There are no overarching binding principles approved by parliament,

:31:45. > :31:50.but ministers for the BBC must respect. As Lord Birt, former

:31:51. > :31:56.director-general and television journalist said during the debate on

:31:57. > :32:02.the 10th of March, a Royal Charter, far from being a powerful symbol and

:32:03. > :32:09.safeguard of the BBC's independence, on the contrary, it enables

:32:10. > :32:12.governments to be less countable van even medieval kings. To amend the

:32:13. > :32:19.Charter through the Privy Council and to inflict unprincipled and

:32:20. > :32:26.material change on the BBC. -- accountable than even. It is time to

:32:27. > :32:32.place the BBC on a statutory footing. My Lords, Lord Fowler, on

:32:33. > :32:37.whose most powerful speech I congratulate him, Lord Fowler and

:32:38. > :32:44.Lord Inglewood, another former chair of the communications committee,

:32:45. > :32:50.have suggested that the Charter is an anomaly that should be replaced

:32:51. > :32:54.by legislation, much as Channel 4. But it is inconceivable, as the

:32:55. > :33:01.Minister will confirm, that the present government would agree to

:33:02. > :33:07.dispense with the Charter. In truth, the choice is not only a binary

:33:08. > :33:11.choice between legislation and Charter, a statute could and should

:33:12. > :33:15.set out the governing principles protecting the independence and

:33:16. > :33:21.effectiveness of the BBC as public service broadcaster, and the core

:33:22. > :33:25.duties of the BBC and of the Secretary of State. It should make

:33:26. > :33:32.the Charter and Charter changes subject to approval by both Houses

:33:33. > :33:36.of Parliament. In that way the BBC's independence would be protected

:33:37. > :33:42.against political interference. So, as others have indicated, I'm

:33:43. > :33:46.fashioning a bill to provide a framework of core principles and

:33:47. > :33:49.duties governing ministers and the BBC, and the Charter and its

:33:50. > :33:56.renewal, while leaving the detail to be covered in the Charter and the

:33:57. > :34:01.accompanying agreement. I hope it will have support in Parliament and

:34:02. > :34:06.Whitehall. Several noble Lords who can't be here today have authorised

:34:07. > :34:14.me to indicate their support including Lord Inglewood and Lord

:34:15. > :34:17.Pannick. My Lords, the bill will provide for the BBC to be a

:34:18. > :34:24.statutory Corporation, established by Royal Charter, but subject to the

:34:25. > :34:30.bill's criteria. The bill will underpin the BBC's duty as public

:34:31. > :34:33.service broadcaster to serve the public interest by informing,

:34:34. > :34:38.educating and entertaining the people of the United Kingdom,

:34:39. > :34:41.including its nations, regions or communities by means of television,

:34:42. > :34:47.radio, online services and other similar services. It's important for

:34:48. > :34:51.the BBC and nobody else to define the scope of public service

:34:52. > :34:55.broadcasting and its limits. The bill will protect the BBC's

:34:56. > :35:02.independence as regards the content of its output, The Times and manner

:35:03. > :35:06.at which the output is supplied and the governance and management of its

:35:07. > :35:10.affairs. The Secretary of State, other ministers of the Crown, the

:35:11. > :35:14.BBC and anyone else with a responsibility for the BBC's

:35:15. > :35:18.governance will have a duty to ensure that the BBC is able to

:35:19. > :35:24.operate independently from ministers and other public authorities in the

:35:25. > :35:29.United Kingdom. The Secretary of State will be required to make

:35:30. > :35:34.available to the BBC sufficient funds to enable the BBC to perform

:35:35. > :35:39.its functions to promote public purposes as a public service

:35:40. > :35:44.broadcaster. The licence fee must be for the exclusive use of the BBC in

:35:45. > :35:52.performing those functions. It will be indexed linked and increased at

:35:53. > :35:58.least against inflation. The BBC's funding must be protected against

:35:59. > :36:02.top slicing, as happened for example under the current licence fee deal

:36:03. > :36:08.with ?115 million per year is diverted from the licence fee to

:36:09. > :36:11.subsidise BT's broadband roll-out. The Secretary of State will not be

:36:12. > :36:16.able to transfer public expenditure to the BBC. If ministers and future

:36:17. > :36:23.ministers want to change this they will have to persuade Parliament to

:36:24. > :36:28.legislate my Lords, the BBC's use of the licence fee carries

:36:29. > :36:31.responsibilities but those are matters not for the Government but

:36:32. > :36:38.for the new board and senior staff and regulator. Under my build there

:36:39. > :36:42.will be an independent external regulator, whether Ofcom or

:36:43. > :36:47.otherwise to oversee the performance of the BBC's duties as public

:36:48. > :36:52.service broadcaster, including any increase above inflation in the

:36:53. > :36:57.licence fee. The Secretary of State and other ministers will be

:36:58. > :37:01.forbidden to seek to influence the BBC's decisions will stop the

:37:02. > :37:06.Secretary of State will be required to have regard to the need to defend

:37:07. > :37:10.the BBC's independence, the need for the BBC to have the financial and

:37:11. > :37:15.non-financial support needed to enable it to exercise its functions

:37:16. > :37:19.and the need for the public interest to be considered in regard to

:37:20. > :37:24.matters relating to the BBC. An independent board of I suggest not

:37:25. > :37:30.more than 40 members, including the chair and deputy chair, will govern

:37:31. > :37:35.the BBC -- 14 members. They should be people with skill, knowledge and

:37:36. > :37:39.experience needed to perform the functions as public service

:37:40. > :37:43.broadcaster. Members should be drawn from across the nations and regions

:37:44. > :37:49.of the United Kingdom, including the BBC licence fee's payers and present

:37:50. > :37:54.and former members of staff. Crucially, they must not be

:37:55. > :37:57.political appointments, but must be appointed by an independent

:37:58. > :38:01.appointments committee established by the Commissioner for Public

:38:02. > :38:05.appointments. The board will be required to carry out its duties in

:38:06. > :38:11.an open and transparent manner. The Royal Charter and any amendments to

:38:12. > :38:17.the Charter will not have effect or be granted, unless the draft or

:38:18. > :38:23.amendment has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each

:38:24. > :38:28.house of Parliament. My Lords, for the last six years the BBC has seen

:38:29. > :38:33.no increase in its funding from the licence fee so it has had to make

:38:34. > :38:38.millions of pounds of cuts in its services and staff. But reforms are

:38:39. > :38:44.needed and reforms are being made. The number of managers remains far

:38:45. > :38:51.too high in spite of commitments to reduce their ranks by 1000. The BBC

:38:52. > :38:57.must not operate from an ivory tower broadcasting to an intellectual

:38:58. > :38:59.elite. But the BBC has become overblown and top-heavy, and

:39:00. > :39:05.involved in commercial projects that could be left to others. Again,

:39:06. > :39:10.these are matters for the board and the senior staff and the regulator

:39:11. > :39:15.to address, not for government. My Lords, the public enthusiastically

:39:16. > :39:20.trust the BBC, as we have said in this debate repeatedly, and

:39:21. > :39:27.appreciates the public service it provides. The BBC staff do their

:39:28. > :39:31.best to deliver a first class and balanced public service despite the

:39:32. > :39:37.worsening financial pressures. This government has dumped more than ?600

:39:38. > :39:40.million in public spending on to the BBC by transferring the cost of

:39:41. > :39:45.licence fees for the over-75s. This makes the BBC carry the burden of

:39:46. > :39:51.fulfilling part of the Government's welfare policy. The BBC is now faced

:39:52. > :39:55.with serious threat of the new unitary board that is appointed

:39:56. > :40:01.politically by ministers and may influence content. My Lords, as

:40:02. > :40:06.several of my Lords have said, the BBC is a national treasure that

:40:07. > :40:11.could easily be harmed by government interference. We all want to ensure

:40:12. > :40:16.the independence of the BBC so that it pursues the Reithian principles

:40:17. > :40:21.that have made it the most respected broadcaster in the world. I hope

:40:22. > :40:25.that the government will accept the need for a properly funded BBC that

:40:26. > :40:31.is independent and free from political interference, and is able

:40:32. > :40:37.with its guaranteed income to produce impartial, high-quality

:40:38. > :40:44.programming that is envied over the world. That's what my bill will seek

:40:45. > :40:49.to safeguard. But, my Lords, ultimately it is the public, to coin

:40:50. > :40:58.a phrase, that must fight and fight and fight again for the BBC they

:40:59. > :41:08.loaf. -- they love. My Lords, and delighted to take part in this

:41:09. > :41:11.debate on the report aptly named Reith Not Revolution and I thank

:41:12. > :41:16.Lord Best for his excellent and diligent chairmanship. As many noble

:41:17. > :41:20.Lords have already made clear it is essential the BBC remains the

:41:21. > :41:26.keystone of British broadcasting and continues to play a central role in

:41:27. > :41:29.the wider creative industries. The BBC must maintain its reputation for

:41:30. > :41:34.quality and independence throughout the world. This is only possible

:41:35. > :41:38.with the continued support from government in keeping with the

:41:39. > :41:41.overwhelming wishes of the British public apparent from the DCMS's

:41:42. > :41:46.consultation sponsor summary published in March this year.

:41:47. > :41:50.Findings showed that the public do value the BBC and believe it

:41:51. > :41:58.produces high and distinctive content and wants it to remain

:41:59. > :42:03.independent. But as in our report, concern was voiced that the BBC

:42:04. > :42:06.falls short for some viewers such as reaching black, Asian and ethnic

:42:07. > :42:11.minority and young audiences and presenting the lives of people in

:42:12. > :42:16.the UK's nations and regions. Just to highlight how important the BBC

:42:17. > :42:22.is for the country it's worth stating that BBC services reach 97%

:42:23. > :42:30.of the UK population every week with an average of around 8.5 hours of TV

:42:31. > :42:39.and over ten hours of BBC radio per head. For ?145.50 per year audiences

:42:40. > :42:42.have provided nine national TV channels, ten national radio

:42:43. > :42:48.channels, 39 local radio stations and a wealth of online and mobile

:42:49. > :42:55.services including BBC Three, iPlayer and bbc.co.uk. But as our

:42:56. > :43:01.report says, the committee has high expectations for the BBC than of

:43:02. > :43:03.other public broadcasters. The BBC must play its part by reaffirming

:43:04. > :43:09.the Reithian principles to inform, educate and entertain, and also to

:43:10. > :43:12.reflect better the society we live in as other noble Lords have

:43:13. > :43:18.mentioned. The BBC should make a particular commitment to reflect the

:43:19. > :43:24.nation's regions and all the diverse communities of the UK. The BBC has

:43:25. > :43:27.unique obligations to its audiences Aggers it is established by Royal

:43:28. > :43:32.Charter, no matter how controversial that is today and dispensable source

:43:33. > :43:36.of funding is universal licence fee. It must set the gold standard

:43:37. > :43:39.amongst the public service broadcasters and thereby remain one

:43:40. > :43:44.of the nation's most treasured institutions.

:43:45. > :43:51.In a paid is that the BBC recognises the attitude be held firmly to

:43:52. > :43:55.account by licence fee payers, Parliament and by the new regulator,

:43:56. > :44:03.but it is also imperative that the BBC must retain its creative and

:44:04. > :44:08.editorial freedom to react to the highly competitive media market and

:44:09. > :44:13.social conditions. That is why our report wants to see the BBC better

:44:14. > :44:19.reflect UK society in all its diversity. We were concerned to

:44:20. > :44:22.hear, and I quote, from a number of witnesses who felt the BBC did not

:44:23. > :44:26.reflect their lives, particularly from the panel of young people,

:44:27. > :44:33.those with a disability and those from with in the BAe -- B M A

:44:34. > :44:40.community. The BBC has recognised this and we expect to see an

:44:41. > :44:43.improvement in this. The head of diversity and inclusion at the BBC

:44:44. > :44:50.said, we all want to get the same result. The BBC where all our

:44:51. > :44:54.audiences can see their lives then took leave portrayed by all our

:44:55. > :45:01.programmes, where our programmes are made from a diverse group of people

:45:02. > :45:11.and where your background, what ever it is, is no bearing on your

:45:12. > :45:19.opportunity to have a career here. The proportion of black, Asian and

:45:20. > :45:28.female workforce is at an all-time high. I welcome the independent

:45:29. > :45:33.group, including the noble Baroness, Lady Taney Grey Thompson, who will

:45:34. > :45:40.continue to hold the BBC to account. Likewise, it is good to see the new

:45:41. > :45:49.BBC Academy in Birmingham which aims to attract the best talent from all

:45:50. > :45:56.over the UK. It extended recruitment which tries to recruit people from

:45:57. > :46:06.the disabled background has reached 628 people in the time it has been

:46:07. > :46:19.running. Last year, the BBC launched a programme to try to develop young

:46:20. > :46:24.BMAE talent and those who reached the end of the programme were first

:46:25. > :46:32.tracked -- fast tracked into a training role. I hope that it will

:46:33. > :46:46.successfully meet its targets to successfully employed more BME

:46:47. > :46:54.people by 2017. It is also important to improve on-air portrayal. The BBC

:46:55. > :47:05.recognises this with its hope to increase portrayal of BMAE by three

:47:06. > :47:11.extra percent to 17% by 2017. They are also trying to increase the

:47:12. > :47:23.number of disabled people on screen. I hope that a new documentary,

:47:24. > :47:27.bringing Juliet into the 21st-century, recasting her for

:47:28. > :47:33.today's diverse society, which will have lots of disabled actors and

:47:34. > :47:40.actresses with in it will be a trailblazer for that. The a word is

:47:41. > :47:51.described as a brilliant description of family life and is also blazing a

:47:52. > :47:57.trail. Other ground-breaking programmes are also out there. I

:47:58. > :48:03.hope the BBC will continue to reflect a modern Britain, ensuring

:48:04. > :48:09.it remains pertinent to the young, as well as the rest of its audience,

:48:10. > :48:14.and maintains its vital role within our nation. I'm sure the BBC can

:48:15. > :48:20.have a vital feature and there is no scope for the Government to reduce

:48:21. > :48:28.its scope. I hope the charter renewal process will prove an

:48:29. > :48:38.opportunity to refresh but not fracture the BBC. I rise with some

:48:39. > :48:45.trepidation as the register of interests notes I am a trustee of

:48:46. > :48:50.the BBC, that much maligned species. You might ask why I joined the BBC

:48:51. > :48:57.trust. I did so because the BBC has always been important in my life and

:48:58. > :49:01.my career. Indeed, I worked in that iconic building, Bush house, as a

:49:02. > :49:08.journalist and editor for the World Service for some eight years from

:49:09. > :49:13.1984 to 1992. They're after, I left the BBC to work for the United

:49:14. > :49:18.Nations and served for many years in Cambodia, the Balkans and the Middle

:49:19. > :49:24.East. During those years, the BBC was vitally important for me. Far

:49:25. > :49:30.more important than that, I saw that it was so critically important for

:49:31. > :49:36.the people with whom I worked in those countries. I worked for Kofi

:49:37. > :49:42.and man, the former Secretary General of the UN, who once famously

:49:43. > :49:47.described the BBC as Britain's greatest contribution to the world

:49:48. > :49:51.in the 20th-century. The World Service has been able to make that

:49:52. > :49:56.enormous contribution because it is part of the wider BBC which has,

:49:57. > :50:03.over the past 90 years, done so much to inform, educate and entertain, in

:50:04. > :50:11.the words of the great John Reid, one of the greatest public servants

:50:12. > :50:21.this country has ever produced. -- Reith. At the outset, I believe

:50:22. > :50:27.there can be no argument that the BBC is one of the greatest

:50:28. > :50:34.organisations in the world. This year marks the 400th birthday of one

:50:35. > :50:38.of our greatest writers, William Shakespeare, and the BBC will be

:50:39. > :50:42.marking that with a programme which brings together the Royal

:50:43. > :50:47.Shakespeare Company, say Ian McKellen, Judi Dench and the Royal

:50:48. > :50:53.Ballet in a televised event to honour the birthday of the national

:50:54. > :50:57.bard. It is typical of what our great public broadcaster can do at

:50:58. > :51:02.its best, bringing together our finest cultural institutions and

:51:03. > :51:09.stars and broadcast, nationwide, as well as internationally, to the

:51:10. > :51:12.widest possible audience. The very concept of public service

:51:13. > :51:19.broadcasting was pioneered here in Britain by the BBC. We should be

:51:20. > :51:29.immensely proud of that. From 1932, the BBC began to broadcast globally,

:51:30. > :51:32.first in English and then, in 1938, interestingly, in Arabic, on either

:51:33. > :51:35.of the Second World War. Sadly the need for broadcasting in that

:51:36. > :51:43.language is as great now as it was then. I believe that the journalism

:51:44. > :51:48.at the BBC goes from strength to strength under the leadership of

:51:49. > :51:51.James Harding, the editor of the News Department. Recently, I saw an

:51:52. > :51:58.extraordinary report on the ten o'clock News, the News at ten, from

:51:59. > :52:07.Alistair Lee's head in Nigeria, looking at the horrible movement of

:52:08. > :52:18.Boca Rampe, the mystery of the 200 girls who were kidnapped by that

:52:19. > :52:28.bile group. I can't think of another broadcaster who would have given

:52:29. > :52:33.prime-time coverage to that group and its horrible work. My Lords, I

:52:34. > :52:37.congratulate Lord Best and his committee for producing an excellent

:52:38. > :52:41.report that has informed this debate on an institution which is national

:52:42. > :52:46.as well as international. At a time when our international presence is

:52:47. > :52:52.diminishing, when much of the world watches with amazement at our

:52:53. > :52:56.pending referendum, we can ill afford to see the BBC retreat. I

:52:57. > :53:03.commend the Government for the extra funds it has put at the use of the

:53:04. > :53:08.BBC in 2015, four African languages and for the establishment of the

:53:09. > :53:15.Korean service, so long championed by the noble lord. Also for the

:53:16. > :53:23.encouragement and further meant of the Arabic and Farsi wing of the

:53:24. > :53:26.BBC. This is the year of charter renewal and I hope it is not marred

:53:27. > :53:34.by the cuts would have been inflicted on public broadcasters in

:53:35. > :53:40.Canada and Australia in recent years. I would submit that that is

:53:41. > :53:45.not a path we want to see the BBC go down. The BBC can ill afford to see

:53:46. > :53:51.any more surprises from Government of the sort meted out by the

:53:52. > :53:57.Chancellor last year. As a result of that step, as many of the Lords in

:53:58. > :54:04.this House have noticed, the BBC has had to take responsibility for the

:54:05. > :54:07.free licenses for the over 75 is introduced by the Labour Government

:54:08. > :54:13.led by Gordon Brown. There should be no more acts of this order. The BBC

:54:14. > :54:17.is not a state broadcaster. It is for governments to decide

:54:18. > :54:25.appropriate levels of social welfare for the elderly and to accept the

:54:26. > :54:30.cost and not pass them the BBC. Assurance in that respect from the

:54:31. > :54:35.Minister would be most welcome and that there will be no similar

:54:36. > :54:41.action. Turning to Lord Best's report, I, like other members of the

:54:42. > :54:47.trust, welcomed the suggestion that there should be an 11 year charter,

:54:48. > :54:54.an 11 year charter which I think is vital to detach the process from the

:54:55. > :55:00.electoral cycle, that should be obvious to us all. The need for an

:55:01. > :55:07.independent regulator to set the level of the license the and an end

:55:08. > :55:13.to the top slicing of the license the or any kind of contestable fund

:55:14. > :55:18.paid for by the license the pages. The importance of the BBC's

:55:19. > :55:24.independence, financial, editorial and operational, comes through so

:55:25. > :55:29.strongly in this report. This independence is vital for the future

:55:30. > :55:33.of the BBC and it matters crucially to the license payers. Following the

:55:34. > :55:38.publication of the Green paper on the charter review in July 2015, the

:55:39. > :55:43.trust launched its own consultation for members of the public to have

:55:44. > :55:48.their say on the future of the BBC. Alongside this, the trust

:55:49. > :55:54.commissioned qualitative and quantitative research to examine

:55:55. > :56:00.issues in greater depth. That consultation found that nine in ten,

:56:01. > :56:05.some 88% of respondents, felt that it was important that the BBC remain

:56:06. > :56:10.independent and a large majority, 79%, that that it was very

:56:11. > :56:17.important. Let me make three critical points. The BBC's financial

:56:18. > :56:23.independence, that is absolutely imperative to the organisation's

:56:24. > :56:28.feature. Future funding periods should, I believe, be funded for no

:56:29. > :56:37.less than six years to provide certainty for planning. Licence fee

:56:38. > :56:41.monies should be dedicated to BBC services and should not ever again

:56:42. > :56:47.be used to fund wider Government programmes. The crucial new proposal

:56:48. > :56:56.relates to a process to determine the license fee will stop after

:56:57. > :57:00.three I'm clear processes for determining this, the trust is

:57:01. > :57:05.calling for it to be written into the charter, giving a formal and

:57:06. > :57:11.clear process with a timescale to be established. The regulator, whether

:57:12. > :57:21.it is Ofcom or someone else, needs to be empowered to bring evidence in

:57:22. > :57:27.two the debate on the BBC's funding, providing the Government, Parliament

:57:28. > :57:34.and the public with proper debate before decisions are taken. It is

:57:35. > :57:40.also my firm opinion that there should be no bit point review, much

:57:41. > :57:50.speculated upon in the press. It is a firm opinion of the trust... I'm

:57:51. > :57:55.sorry, that this would create unnecessary operational uncertainty

:57:56. > :58:00.for the BBC and make long-term planning difficult. Moreover, it

:58:01. > :58:05.could potentially affect their ability to invest in projects which

:58:06. > :58:11.benefit both the public and the BBC -- and the UK's creative industries.

:58:12. > :58:18.The current charter has shown flexibility to enable the BBC to

:58:19. > :58:22.react effectively, in a shifting technological landscape. For

:58:23. > :58:30.example, the decision to launch the eye player in 2007. A midpoint

:58:31. > :58:34.review, we believe, is unnecessary. Thirdly, and finally, my lord, we

:58:35. > :58:41.support the proposal from the report for the creation of a unitary board,

:58:42. > :58:49.independent from the Government, but we have significant concerns that

:58:50. > :58:56.DCM as should be the organisation with the power to appoint the

:58:57. > :59:04.unitary board. This, we believe, is unacceptable. Instead, it should be

:59:05. > :59:06.a transparent process for the appointment of the board.

:59:07. > :59:13.Ministerial involvement should only be to the appointment of the chair.

:59:14. > :59:15.This is a view which is widely supported by a polling which the

:59:16. > :59:25.trust has carried out. Earlier today in this House we carried out a

:59:26. > :59:32.ceremony to mark the Queen's 90th birthday. The BBC is slightly older

:59:33. > :59:37.at 94. The Queen's Christmas address is watched by many and it is

:59:38. > :59:40.remarkable that it was the most watched programme lysed Christmas

:59:41. > :59:43.Day. It shows again how the BBC can play such a powerful role in

:59:44. > :59:51.bringing this nation together. My Lords, I too thank Lord Best and

:59:52. > :59:55.communications committee for this excellent debate based on their

:59:56. > :59:58.excellent report, both of which highlight in particular the

:59:59. > :00:02.importance of better governance, great diversity and protection

:00:03. > :00:07.against political pressure. The report anticipates the BBC trust

:00:08. > :00:12.will be replaced by an independent regulator, most likely Ofcom which I

:00:13. > :00:16.welcomed because it is well regarded across business and politics, but

:00:17. > :00:19.given the replacement of the BBC Trust by an independent regulator

:00:20. > :00:25.Sir David Clementi's recent review proposes a unitary BBC board of

:00:26. > :00:29.perhaps 13 members led by a nonexecutive chair with a deputy

:00:30. > :00:33.chair acting as senior independent director, plus four other

:00:34. > :00:37.nonexecutive directors designated from the four nations of the United

:00:38. > :00:45.Kingdom with the balance of five or six nonexecutive members also to be

:00:46. > :00:50.pointed to a 13 or 14 strong board. The proposed unitary board might

:00:51. > :00:54.therefore have only two, or perhaps three, executive directors from BBC

:00:55. > :01:01.management, including of course the director-general. As we have heard,

:01:02. > :01:05.the DCMS Secretary of State John Whittingdale suggests the Government

:01:06. > :01:10.might appoint all of the non-executives. That would become as

:01:11. > :01:14.previous speakers have made clear, a very real threat to the independence

:01:15. > :01:17.of the BBC, because in an organisation controlled by a unitary

:01:18. > :01:23.board these government appointees could exert influence in many

:01:24. > :01:26.sensitive areas including programming decisions. So, one

:01:27. > :01:30.consideration should therefore be that the next Royal Charter should

:01:31. > :01:34.therefore make it clear that the ultimate editor in chief of all

:01:35. > :01:38.programme output is the director-general. Lord Hall, the

:01:39. > :01:42.current director-general, recently stressed the independence of the BBC

:01:43. > :01:47.from political pressure must be a priority command as we have heard

:01:48. > :01:51.today, it is clear that most noble Lords share that view. We now know

:01:52. > :01:55.that the White Paper on Charter renewal will finally be published

:01:56. > :01:58.next month, and I hope by then the Government will have backed away

:01:59. > :02:02.from proposing an appointments procedure which would threaten the

:02:03. > :02:07.BBC's traditional independence and be very vigorously contested. The

:02:08. > :02:11.weakness of the Royal Charter process in protecting the BBC from

:02:12. > :02:16.government interference has long had cogently been argued by the noble

:02:17. > :02:21.Lord Lord Falconer, who rightly said it should be rooted in statute with

:02:22. > :02:26.more transparent and democratic decisions debated and endorsed in

:02:27. > :02:30.Parliament. Lord Birt, former director-general, criticised the way

:02:31. > :02:35.in which the Royal Charter's proposed safeguards have been

:02:36. > :02:40.bypassed so easily to divert around 25% of BBC programme budgets to fund

:02:41. > :02:45.Treasury schemes. Now, unfortunately, it's almost too late

:02:46. > :02:49.to push through fundamental reforms, but looking forward to Lord Lester's

:02:50. > :02:54.draft Bill I hope this house can give attention momentum to it. But

:02:55. > :03:01.we must still use next month's White Paper to press for reforms and other

:03:02. > :03:02.arrangements. Your Lordships' can indication is committee suggest

:03:03. > :03:08.scrapping the multiple accountability layers of BBC

:03:09. > :03:12.bureaucracy and adopting Ofcom's four general Puig service

:03:13. > :03:17.broadcasting purposes, informing or understanding of the world,

:03:18. > :03:19.stimulant in knowledge and learning, reflecting UK cultural identity, and

:03:20. > :03:27.representing diversity and alternative viewpoints. To the

:03:28. > :03:35.traditional BBC's Reithian tradition, to entertain, inform and,

:03:36. > :03:41.diversity will no doubt become even greater over the life of the next

:03:42. > :03:45.BBC Charter. I pick up here on some of the issues raised by Baroness

:03:46. > :03:49.Healy, my noble friend. In the House of Commons last Thursday debate on

:03:50. > :03:56.the BBC on diversity was introduced by the MP for Tottenham David Lammy

:03:57. > :04:00.in an excellent speech. Mr Lambie's motion noted with concern that

:04:01. > :04:07.black, Asian and minority ethnic people working in the UK creative

:04:08. > :04:13.media fell by 31% between 2006 and 2012. It also noted that the BBC had

:04:14. > :04:17.fallen behind other broadcasters in setting and achieving targets for a

:04:18. > :04:22.more diverse workforce. And diversity of course embraces more

:04:23. > :04:29.than BAME matters, it's also about the representation and employment of

:04:30. > :04:35.people with disabilities, lesbian, Gay, bisexual and transgender

:04:36. > :04:39.people, about regionalism, gender and noble Lords may recall that our

:04:40. > :04:41.own Communications Committee recently reported on the problems

:04:42. > :04:51.facing older women working in television. Over the 15 years from

:04:52. > :04:55.1999 the BBC launched 29 initiatives aimed at improving BAME employment,

:04:56. > :05:00.and no doubt another initiative will be announced soon. It will be

:05:01. > :05:05.welcome, but clearly what is needed is action and results if the BBC is

:05:06. > :05:10.to meet its targets, which at present lag behind Channel 4 and

:05:11. > :05:15.Sky. Sky entertainment has decreed that all new shows will have 20% of

:05:16. > :05:21.people from BAME backgrounds insignificant on-screen roles and

:05:22. > :05:27.targets for regional roles of screen in all productions -- in significant

:05:28. > :05:32.on-screen roles. In Sky News 15% of interviewees were from BAME

:05:33. > :05:37.communities. Channel 4 has an vicious targets in its 360 degrees

:05:38. > :05:46.diversity Charter with an increase from 15% of BAME staff in 2015 to

:05:47. > :05:48.20% in 2020. Channel 4 has also made remarkable progress in employing and

:05:49. > :05:53.representing on-screen and off-screen people with disabilities.

:05:54. > :05:59.My noble friend Baroness Oona King is indeed the driving force on these

:06:00. > :06:05.issues at Channel 4. Currently the reckoning is that in London, where

:06:06. > :06:11.national broadcasters are based, around 40% of the population are

:06:12. > :06:17.from BAME communities, or not British-born. Across the UK the

:06:18. > :06:23.figure is around 14% and rising. Significantly, BBC One has a share

:06:24. > :06:30.of 22% of the television audience, but only a 13% share of BAME

:06:31. > :06:35.viewers. The BAME percentage of the BBC workforce has crept up pretty

:06:36. > :06:40.slowly in recent years to just over 13%. But that is markedly lower in

:06:41. > :06:47.senior positions. Interestingly, the Minister for culture Ed Vaizey was

:06:48. > :06:51.repeatedly praised for the personal and very positive role he plays in

:06:52. > :06:57.encouraging greater diversity. The Minister in turn praised the work

:06:58. > :07:01.done to highlight diversity issues by Sir Lenny Henry, the actor Idris

:07:02. > :07:07.Elba who recently addressed a packed meeting here at Parliament, and

:07:08. > :07:10.Simon Albury of the campaign for broadcasting equality who is the

:07:11. > :07:17.former Chief Executive of the Royal Television Society. Esther Albury

:07:18. > :07:21.says the advances made on-screen in BAME representation are important

:07:22. > :07:24.but on-screen representation must be matched by more off-screen

:07:25. > :07:28.employment, especially in the areas of commissioning power and editorial

:07:29. > :07:36.influence which must be mobilised to drive faster change across the BBC.

:07:37. > :07:39.Regarding regional diversity the BBC can, I think, be proud of the

:07:40. > :07:43.progress it has made in spending much more of its programming budget

:07:44. > :07:49.outside the M25. Media City in Salford has been given a great boost

:07:50. > :07:53.to production in the North of England, and ITV is also building

:07:54. > :07:56.its own regional structures in Yorkshire and at what used to be

:07:57. > :08:02.called Granada land in the north-west, especially with location

:08:03. > :08:07.drama and serious like Emmerdale and Coronation Street. Scotland, Wales

:08:08. > :08:11.and Northern Ireland now have shares of BBC programme production that

:08:12. > :08:16.better reflect their share of UK audiences, a much welcome advance on

:08:17. > :08:22.past practice. BBC television and radio now has a more diverse

:08:23. > :08:25.regional spread, but there is surely a lot more that could be done for

:08:26. > :08:30.the populous Midlands and North East of England. Our judgments on these

:08:31. > :08:33.matters might be better informed if the BBC were not so grudging in

:08:34. > :08:38.giving out information about programme budgets and staffing. For

:08:39. > :08:44.which it was criticised in the Commons debate. How viewers' licence

:08:45. > :08:49.fee money is spent demands and deserves more transparency. The

:08:50. > :08:55.diversity of the UK can be defined in so many ways that no Royal

:08:56. > :09:00.Charter or PSP purpose can capture all of its complexity -- PSP. The

:09:01. > :09:03.greatest challenge in producing BBC programmes has been defined as

:09:04. > :09:10.making the good popular and the popular good. The digital platforms

:09:11. > :09:12.and alternative channels multiplying and competition increasing and

:09:13. > :09:19.audiences fragment in, the demands on executives and creative producers

:09:20. > :09:26.will intensify. The demands for quality and higher ratings will at

:09:27. > :09:29.times not sit easily alongside the targeting of diversity. That is a

:09:30. > :09:33.challenge that must be guided strongly and imaginatively from the

:09:34. > :09:37.top of broadcasting organisations, especially one as indispensable to

:09:38. > :09:48.the UK as the BBC, and I speak as someone who spent 30 years in

:09:49. > :09:50.broadcasting at a rival of Independent television. That

:09:51. > :09:55.independence will not be achieved by the BBC trust if it is dominated by

:09:56. > :09:59.ABC appointees. Between the publication of the White Paper and

:10:00. > :10:02.the start of the new BBC Charter, Parliament must strive to put the

:10:03. > :10:06.right structures of governance in place to encourage creativity and

:10:07. > :10:10.diversity to sustain impartiality and independence, and to reward the

:10:11. > :10:21.viewing public for the trust and affection they have for the BBC. My

:10:22. > :10:25.Lords, I too want to pay tribute to the noble Lord Lord Best who chaired

:10:26. > :10:29.our committee, and I also paid tribute to my fellow committee

:10:30. > :10:34.members and these are a warm-hearted tribute, and I will explain why. Our

:10:35. > :10:42.report reminds me of how you produce a souffle. We served up a dish which

:10:43. > :10:45.looks simple, it contains clear and straightforward observations and

:10:46. > :10:52.recommendations. But as with a souffle, it involves hours and hours

:10:53. > :10:55.of toil and sweat in the preparation. Only members of the

:10:56. > :10:59.committee who were involved in this process can appreciate what agonies

:11:00. > :11:05.we went through. What happened was this: we did not want to have an

:11:06. > :11:10.inquiry into every element of the BBC. So we said we would focus on

:11:11. > :11:16.specific elements one being the public purposes of the BBC. Little

:11:17. > :11:22.did we know what we were getting into. We thought that this arena of

:11:23. > :11:26.public purposes would be a light stroll in the garden involving a

:11:27. > :11:32.pair of secateurs for a little light pruning. Instead we found ourselves

:11:33. > :11:38.in tangled, almost strangle it, in a thicket six public purposes, a

:11:39. > :11:45.further six public remits, 28 purpose priorities and 26 service

:11:46. > :11:48.licences. Add to these Ofcom's own public purposes. Not surprisingly we

:11:49. > :11:56.decided that what we needed were not secateurs, but heavy garden shears.

:11:57. > :12:00.So we came to the view, keep it simple. Please, get back to the

:12:01. > :12:06.simple Reithian mission, the three objectives to inform, educate and

:12:07. > :12:10.entertain. And we were then encouraged by the right reverend,

:12:11. > :12:18.the Bishop of Chelmsford, to add a fourth, to reflect. And the Bishop

:12:19. > :12:23.has talked this afternoon about the need to reflect beliefs across the

:12:24. > :12:29.country. And so our report says that the BBC should reflect, and I quote:

:12:30. > :12:34.the front opinions, lifestyles, beliefs and values of the nations,

:12:35. > :12:41.regions and diverse communities of the UK. I hope that the BBC will

:12:42. > :12:45.take note of the recommendation to reflect the range of different

:12:46. > :12:52.opinions across the UK. Because, if I may say so, I don't think they

:12:53. > :12:56.have always done so. I have heard highly respected BBC commentators,

:12:57. > :12:59.such as Nick Robinson, say that the BBC has sometimes been slow to

:13:00. > :13:05.reflect public opinion on controversial subjects. And he

:13:06. > :13:10.cited, for example, Europe and immigration. And I suspect this is

:13:11. > :13:16.partly the result of a metropolitan bias in news reporting. How often

:13:17. > :13:22.have we heard the anchorman or woman on the Today programme as they

:13:23. > :13:24.introduced the weather forecast, it's raining over Broadcasting

:13:25. > :13:30.House, what is it doing in the rest of the country? It was therefore

:13:31. > :13:34.very encouraging when the committee went to visit the BBC at Media City

:13:35. > :13:39.in Salford Quays. That move has been a great success, and not just for

:13:40. > :13:45.the BBC, but also for the locality and the region. The same will be

:13:46. > :13:54.true, I think, as the BBC extends its presence elsewhere, for example

:13:55. > :13:57.in Cardiff. My Lords, the Government is looking at proposals on Charter

:13:58. > :14:03.on your, so let me make a few points about that. It is right, as has been

:14:04. > :14:07.said by many noble Lords, notably Mike Noble Lord Lord Fowler and Lord

:14:08. > :14:11.Lester, who isn't in his place, it is right the BBC should be

:14:12. > :14:16.independent and be seen to be independent -- my noble Lord, Lord

:14:17. > :14:20.Fowler. Points have been raised about how the process by which

:14:21. > :14:25.Charter renewal takes place, how that should happen. I've listened

:14:26. > :14:31.very carefully to what has been said. And as I understand it, the

:14:32. > :14:38.provisions of the BBC Charter and chartering you will will be put into

:14:39. > :14:41.legislation in an act of Parliament and decided by Parliament. But I do

:14:42. > :14:48.wonder if that would make the process more political. I wonder if

:14:49. > :14:55.my noble friend Lord Fowler could imagine the kind of amendments and

:14:56. > :15:00.who might move them that such a bill might attract. I look forward to

:15:01. > :15:04.seeing what proposals the noble Lord, Lord Lester has, when he comes

:15:05. > :15:08.forward with his proposed bill, and let's judge it when we see the

:15:09. > :15:12.details of that. I want to come to the question of the licence fee now.

:15:13. > :15:17.I would not want to see a repeat of last year's process which pushed

:15:18. > :15:23.onto the BBC the cost of free licenses for the over-75s. And not

:15:24. > :15:27.surprisingly this has led to calls for a more independent system of

:15:28. > :15:34.setting the licence fee and our committee does indeed recommend one.

:15:35. > :15:41.I'm not quite sure it is as straightforward as that. At the end

:15:42. > :15:47.of the day, the level of the license fee has two reflect the scale and

:15:48. > :15:51.disturb of the BBC. At least under the present regime, that will, at

:15:52. > :15:56.the end of the day, be decided by the Government. But let us suppose

:15:57. > :16:03.the Government were to adopt a process of licence fee settlement

:16:04. > :16:07.along the lines of our report and it should be handed to an independent

:16:08. > :16:12.body to make a recommendation, surely it should be factored into

:16:13. > :16:17.that process a view or calculation of what efficiency savings are

:16:18. > :16:23.required of the BBC. Every well-run organisation or company looks each

:16:24. > :16:27.year at how it can run itself more efficiently and cut costs where it

:16:28. > :16:34.can and the BBC should not be immune to that process. This brings me to

:16:35. > :16:39.be tough choices which the management of the BBC have to

:16:40. > :16:45.confront. They are faced with demands from the public for

:16:46. > :16:48.extensive news and current affairs, loads of sport, top-class drama,

:16:49. > :16:56.brilliant wildlife programmes, high-quality entertainment and

:16:57. > :17:00.comedy, the arts and it goes on. The BBC has very little control over its

:17:01. > :17:06.funding, so the demands made of the BBC in the new charter must be

:17:07. > :17:12.realistic. Ambitious, but not over ambitious. In my opinion, the BBC

:17:13. > :17:18.cannot do everything and mess the BBC are really prepared to pay for

:17:19. > :17:22.it. Therefore, I don't think the BBC should always try to compete with

:17:23. > :17:27.the commercial channels at every level, but that emphatically does

:17:28. > :17:32.not mean that the BBC should confine itself to output which the market

:17:33. > :17:38.will not provide, the so-called market failure model. It is not a

:17:39. > :17:45.binary choice. What I want to see is market in Richmond. The BBC makes

:17:46. > :17:50.programmes which inform, educate and entertain but which are distinctive

:17:51. > :17:54.because of their high quality. They make programmes which are innovative

:17:55. > :17:58.and break new ground and which are challenging. It has been mentioned

:17:59. > :18:03.in the course of the debate programmes such as the great British

:18:04. > :18:09.bake of and programmes made by the noble lord brag in our time which

:18:10. > :18:13.are wonderful and brilliant programmes, so there are brilliant

:18:14. > :18:17.programmes which the BBC can and does make and in the UK, we are

:18:18. > :18:23.blessed with an abundance of creative people within the BBC and

:18:24. > :18:27.the creative independent producers with the ideas, imagination and

:18:28. > :18:34.expertise to conceive and make these programmes. They will go on doing

:18:35. > :18:37.so, so long as the BBC have clear objectives, so long as the culture

:18:38. > :18:44.and ethos of the BBC and courage is them, and so long as the BBC is not

:18:45. > :18:48.swamped by an incomprehensible hierarchy of public purposes and we

:18:49. > :18:57.met involving endless and pointless box ticking. So, give the BBC a new,

:18:58. > :19:04.straightforward board structure. Appoint independent people at the

:19:05. > :19:10.top, establish a clear regulatory framework and then, quite simply,

:19:11. > :19:17.let them get on with the job. My Lords, it is good to hear all the

:19:18. > :19:26.tributes to the committee and to its chair, the noble lord Lord Best, for

:19:27. > :19:31.there really quite statesman-like and distinguished report. I thought

:19:32. > :19:37.the way that Lord Best introduced the report had all the rings of

:19:38. > :19:47.Reithian authoritative comment at its best. My Lords, the debate got

:19:48. > :19:53.off to a good start because, of course, the report's introduction

:19:54. > :19:59.was followed by the noble lord, Lord Fowler, and there has been no more

:20:00. > :20:08.consistent and firm champion of the cause of the BBC in this House and

:20:09. > :20:14.beyond than Lord Fowler. He doesn't only champion it, he analyses

:20:15. > :20:21.situations, he underlines the strengths, he sees the challenges

:20:22. > :20:26.and what is so important is he puts forward constructive remedies of how

:20:27. > :20:31.the thing can be brought forward. He is no Greek chorus. He is an active

:20:32. > :20:39.player who wants to engage in the whole dynamic of the future. My

:20:40. > :20:47.Lords, I think there has also been something which has been very good

:20:48. > :20:57.in this debate, the value of hearing from noble lord 's, as there are no

:20:58. > :21:03.people that in the Parliamentary arena who have done more to advance

:21:04. > :21:14.the cause not only of the arts, but also of bringing the arts to the

:21:15. > :21:22.widest cross-section of people and if I am allowed to make a personal

:21:23. > :21:31.reflection, I am constantly reminded in Cumbria where I live, how Lord

:21:32. > :21:41.Bragg has found he had time to nurture the Keswick literary

:21:42. > :21:48.festival. My Lords, Lord Puttnam, I thought, he was splendid, in the way

:21:49. > :21:55.in which he underlined that if what we love about the BBC is to survive

:21:56. > :22:02.and faster, its independence at the BBC is crucial. In that, the way in

:22:03. > :22:10.which the governors are appointed and the chair appointed, is, of

:22:11. > :22:15.course, is essential. We need to watch that very carefully indeed.

:22:16. > :22:25.The report emphasised that they would like to add or put forward the

:22:26. > :22:30.thought that the additional objective might be added to the BBC

:22:31. > :22:35.mission and that is to reflect. Of course, the way in which they were

:22:36. > :22:39.using reflect is that it must reflect society additives, the

:22:40. > :22:43.generations of society, the nations that make the United Kingdom, and do

:22:44. > :22:54.that really demonstrate with commitment. -- do that really

:22:55. > :23:02.demonstrably. But reflect has two meanings, really. I hope that they

:23:03. > :23:06.feel as strongly about the other dimension of reflect, which is to

:23:07. > :23:13.stop, pause and consider and evaluate the society which we are

:23:14. > :23:17.in. This I think is a two Mendis contribution the BBC can make.

:23:18. > :23:24.Actually encouraging people to think about the world in which they are

:23:25. > :23:29.living. -- this is a tremendous contribution the BBC can make. They

:23:30. > :23:36.can see for themselves how they can becoming gauged in shaping this

:23:37. > :23:40.world. In this context, I was also very bad that the report emphasised

:23:41. > :23:51.unashamedly children. I can't help forgetting my up ringing. Children's

:23:52. > :23:55.hour was a very important part of my upbringing, in my young days, and

:23:56. > :24:01.not least because I was growing up in the wall with all the tensions

:24:02. > :24:06.and stress and drama of war. How we waited for the drama on Thursday

:24:07. > :24:12.nights and the next episode of the drama. Some children were asked

:24:13. > :24:21.quite soon after television was coming in, in a very serious survey,

:24:22. > :24:27.and they were asked, what do you prefer? Radio drama or television

:24:28. > :24:35.drama? At that stage, the majority of the children who were asked said,

:24:36. > :24:40.oh, radio drama. When asked why they said, because the pictures are

:24:41. > :24:47.better. I wonder whether, with all our cameras and high-tech and the

:24:48. > :24:55.rest, we are stimulating the agenda and imagination to quite the degree

:24:56. > :25:07.to which radio children's programmes used to do certainly in the 1930s

:25:08. > :25:14.and 40s. My Lords, if it's a stimulating amongst the young and

:25:15. > :25:18.children's imagination and vision, we have to look at what it's

:25:19. > :25:25.contributing to the children. What we are making available to the young

:25:26. > :25:31.in the context of the crisis in our society itself. I almost literally

:25:32. > :25:38.lose sleep about what is happening to our society is that the concept

:25:39. > :25:48.of citizenship is withering, as consumerism takes over. Consumerism

:25:49. > :25:58.fosters responsive attitudes in terms of personal needs, personal

:25:59. > :26:04.aggrandisement and the rest. Citizenship demands thought and

:26:05. > :26:08.participation. Without of course becoming propaganda agents, the BBC

:26:09. > :26:17.has a unique opportunity to begin to introduce and effectively introduce

:26:18. > :26:23.children to the importance of citizenship and to how they can

:26:24. > :26:30.participate in citizenship and what the issues of citizenship are about.

:26:31. > :26:33.When I was a member of Parliament, I had an inner-city constituency. I

:26:34. > :26:41.made a point every year of going to visit every secondary school in my

:26:42. > :26:47.constituency. It was not a cheering experience because, when I was

:26:48. > :26:57.talking to people about the importance of participation in

:26:58. > :27:01.politics, they would say, what is this, it's got nothing to do with

:27:02. > :27:06.politics. I would say to them, does your family have any housing

:27:07. > :27:14.problems? Do your families ever encounter medical problems? Do your

:27:15. > :27:26.families have issues about education itself? And I was repeatedly told by

:27:27. > :27:29.the youngsters, in words of one syllable, very bluntly sometimes,

:27:30. > :27:33.that's got nothing to do with politics. That was some years ago

:27:34. > :27:38.but I suspect that the situation is even worse today, with the

:27:39. > :27:47.disillusionment in the political community. I think the BBC has got a

:27:48. > :27:54.terrific opportunity to rehabilitate the elliptical context and quality

:27:55. > :28:00.of our society -- political context and quality of our society. Also

:28:01. > :28:05.within that, I think local radio has an important role to play. I can

:28:06. > :28:11.speak warmly about radio Cumbria and the key part it has played into

:28:12. > :28:16.terrible episodes of flooding in recent years, absolutely crucial to

:28:17. > :28:22.the well-being and safety of the local people. It also has a

:28:23. > :28:27.responsibility to link into local perceptions, local engagement. The

:28:28. > :28:34.national issues, I was struck at the time of the last flooding, that it

:28:35. > :28:39.almost coincided with the great conference in Paris. I thought it

:28:40. > :28:42.was a terrific opportunity there to get people thinking about what was

:28:43. > :28:47.being done in Paris and what the relevance of what was going on in

:28:48. > :28:54.Paris had to their situation and the difficulties they were facing. I

:28:55. > :28:59.think, there again, the role that the BBC can play openly must never

:29:00. > :29:05.be underestimated, but it is not just reporting local crime and local

:29:06. > :29:11.murders etc. It is easy to slip into that sort of preoccupation. It is

:29:12. > :29:15.about taking the opportunity to stimulate a better neighbourhood

:29:16. > :29:19.community understanding of how the world are really affecting them and

:29:20. > :29:38.how they relate to them as a community.

:29:39. > :29:46.I can't conclude without saying how happy I was with the World Service

:29:47. > :29:50.and how important it was to me. As a young man, not infrequently, I found

:29:51. > :29:55.myself in Bush house. It seemed to me that it had all the

:29:56. > :30:01.characteristics of a unique university. It had a real sense of

:30:02. > :30:07.community journalism, it shared experiences and that's, and a very

:30:08. > :30:15.high level of analysis and thought about the issues before the world's

:30:16. > :30:20.society. If we have run reality with which we all have do live, and I

:30:21. > :30:25.really can't say how strongly I feel about this, if we have one reality

:30:26. > :30:30.with which we all have two lives and it is so sad to see in Britain that

:30:31. > :30:36.there are so many people, not least in the Westminster community, who

:30:37. > :30:41.wish it wasn't true and want to run away from it, but the reality is

:30:42. > :30:46.that from the moment we are born, we are locked into a world community.

:30:47. > :30:50.We are utterly interdependent with the world. There is hardly a single

:30:51. > :30:56.issue of significance which can be solved or resolved or dealt with

:30:57. > :30:59.successfully on our own as a nation. It has to be doubt with in the

:31:00. > :31:06.context of cooperation, participation in the wider world

:31:07. > :31:14.community of which we are a part. Here I think the BBC not only in the

:31:15. > :31:17.quality of thinking in Britain, in the contribution it makes, but in

:31:18. > :31:22.the practicality of its link between the World Service, the National

:31:23. > :31:26.Service, the regional servers, the local service, is in a strongly

:31:27. > :31:27.placed position to ensure the quality of the future of our

:31:28. > :31:38.democracy.