12/05/2016

:00:00. > :00:00.Point but other new nuclear as well. We, on this side are doing what the

:00:00. > :00:07.other side of the House disally failed to do for 13 years, which is

:00:08. > :00:13.to deliver on infrastructure to the benefit of all consumers.

:00:14. > :00:18.THE SPEAKER: Urgent question, John Redwood. Will the minister make a

:00:19. > :00:20.statement on the number of national insurance numbers issued to EU

:00:21. > :00:32.migrants? Mr Speaker, for years UK migration

:00:33. > :00:37.figures have been measured independently according to agreed UN

:00:38. > :00:42.definitions. Today's report by the independent Office for National

:00:43. > :00:46.Statistics is a clear endorsement of their validity. I welcome the

:00:47. > :00:50.clarity that the ONS have provided on this important issue.

:00:51. > :00:54.And to have this opportunity to clear up some so of the

:00:55. > :00:59.misconceptions about the national insurance numbers and what they may

:01:00. > :01:06.mean for EU migration. On the 7th March this year, the

:01:07. > :01:13.Office office for national statistic published a note explaining why

:01:14. > :01:15.long-term international migration figures couldiver from

:01:16. > :01:19.registrations.en clouding the two series are like -- egg slagss,

:01:20. > :01:26.concluding the two Differ. They published their

:01:27. > :01:30.conclusions this morning. I stress this is independent work, carried

:01:31. > :01:34.out by an independent Statistics Authority.

:01:35. > :01:40.The conclusions are clear, the ONS have stated the difference between

:01:41. > :01:45.the number of long-term EU migrants and national insurance registrations

:01:46. > :01:49.by EU nationals can be accounted for by short-term EU migration to the UK

:01:50. > :01:53.and that the independent international passenger surva

:01:54. > :01:57.remains the best -- survey remains the best source of information for

:01:58. > :02:03.measuring net migration. They say that national insurance figures are

:02:04. > :02:06.not a good measure of measures of migration even if they are helpful

:02:07. > :02:10.for understanding patterns of migration. National insurance

:02:11. > :02:15.numbers can be obtained by anyone working in the UK for just a few

:02:16. > :02:18.weeks. The ONS explains why the number of national insurance

:02:19. > :02:23.registrations should not be compared with migration figures, because they

:02:24. > :02:28.measure entirely different things. Short-term migrants have never been

:02:29. > :02:35.included in the long-term migration statistics which are governed by UN

:02:36. > :02:40.definitions. We have had short-term migrants who do not get picked up.

:02:41. > :02:45.It will not have an impact on popular population growth and

:02:46. > :02:49.pressures, as they, by definition, leave the UK within 12 months of

:02:50. > :02:53.arriving. The Government looking forward to the ONS's follow-up note,

:02:54. > :02:59.setting out their analysis in greater detail later in the year.

:03:00. > :03:03.And we must now be care not to distort these figures following

:03:04. > :03:08.their clear statements. I welcome the conclusions. I hope they provide

:03:09. > :03:12.reassurance to those concerned. The national insurance data could

:03:13. > :03:16.suggest that the published migration statistics were inaccurate. The

:03:17. > :03:20.Government takes very seriously the need to reduce net migration to

:03:21. > :03:24.long-term sustainable levels, from the hundreds of thousands to the

:03:25. > :03:29.tens of thousands. We have taken a number of steps to achieve that, of

:03:30. > :03:34.which the immigration bill, which completed its parliamentary passage

:03:35. > :03:38.this week is just the latest. Clear and accurate statistics are integral

:03:39. > :03:45.to what we are seeking to achieve. I am pleased that today the ONS has,

:03:46. > :03:48.with its normal impartiality, confirmed the statistics we use

:03:49. > :03:53.based on the International Passenger Survey do have the necessary

:03:54. > :03:54.integrity and remain the best measure for understanding net

:03:55. > :04:02.migration. Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the

:04:03. > :04:06.minister for his statement. Doesn't the minister accept that the popular

:04:07. > :04:11.programme that he and I and other Conservative MPs stood on at the

:04:12. > :04:13.general election to make a substantial reduction in net

:04:14. > :04:18.migration is quite impossible to honour as a promise on the

:04:19. > :04:21.Government's own figures for migration, let alone national

:04:22. > :04:24.insurance because it has been running well above the maximum total

:04:25. > :04:27.that we suggested to the electorate. Doesn't it show all the time we are

:04:28. > :04:31.in the European Union we cannot control EU migration in the way that

:04:32. > :04:35.we promised to do in the general election? Doesn't the big difference

:04:36. > :04:39.between the national insurance numbers and the migration numbers

:04:40. > :04:43.also have really big implications that will be a worry to members on

:04:44. > :04:49.all sides of the house for the impact on public services. The fact

:04:50. > :04:53.is that over a five-year period, 1.2 million additional people came here,

:04:54. > :04:57.got a job and got a national insurance number and obviously lived

:04:58. > :05:02.here for a considerable number of time, even if some have now departed

:05:03. > :05:06.and they needed to attend doctor's surgeries, to have school places for

:05:07. > :05:12.children and so forth. If we look at the figures for GP registrations we

:05:13. > :05:18.see in the last two years alone an additional 1.1 million people have

:05:19. > :05:20.registered for GP services, implying the national insurance numbers are

:05:21. > :05:25.close tore the truth and implying that we need to look at the national

:05:26. > :05:28.insurance numbers as well as the formal migration numbers when

:05:29. > :05:32.planning public provision? Doesn't the minister share any of my concern

:05:33. > :05:36.that we are not offering a sufficiently good welcome in terms

:05:37. > :05:39.of places and health facilities and school places that it is putting a

:05:40. > :05:43.lot of pressure on settled communities and not offering

:05:44. > :05:47.something good to the new comers. Doesn't he share my wish to get a

:05:48. > :05:53.grip on it so we can plan our public services. I find the notes slipped

:05:54. > :05:57.out, fortunately the speaker allowed an urgent question, doesn't answer

:05:58. > :06:01.the discrepancy and doesn't deal with the point that iftion comes

:06:02. > :06:08.here, works and gets a national insurance number, we need to provide

:06:09. > :06:14.services for them? Well, Mr Speaker, I am dwrafl to my Right Honourable

:06:15. > :06:18.-- I am grateful to my Right Honourable friend to allow me to

:06:19. > :06:24.clarify the points. The ONS statements today are very clear. As

:06:25. > :06:29.Glenn Watson the statistician for the policy has said this morning, we

:06:30. > :06:32.are confident, the International Passenger Survey remains the best

:06:33. > :06:36.available way of pressuring long-term migration to the UK.

:06:37. > :06:43.As I have already indicated in my statement to the House this morning.

:06:44. > :06:46.My Right Honourable friend has highlighted, I think correctly, this

:06:47. > :06:52.issue of the public services. This is why this Government remains

:06:53. > :06:55.committed to reducing net migration to those long-term sustainable

:06:56. > :07:00.levels that existed before the last Labour Government.

:07:01. > :07:05.And we remain committed and focussed to achieving that. That is why we

:07:06. > :07:11.have taken the steps that we have to reform the visa sis accept, to make

:07:12. > :07:15.the changes on -- visa system, to making the changes on migration,

:07:16. > :07:20.which is why the measures approved earlier this week are absolutely

:07:21. > :07:23.pivotal to that. The ONS are cleesh that we should not be looking at

:07:24. > :07:26.national insurance number force that assessment of the pressure of

:07:27. > :07:34.migration. And I think it is important to

:07:35. > :07:38.equally stress that some have suggested that by leaving the EU

:07:39. > :07:41.this will be the answer to the migration issue.

:07:42. > :07:46.Well, I say to them very clearly, we only fled to look at the examples of

:07:47. > :07:52.other countries that have decided to be on the outside. And yet have free

:07:53. > :07:59.movement. Yet they pay into the EU budget. Therefore this idea that

:08:00. > :08:02.somehow on the outside it would be better, I find it inconceivable that

:08:03. > :08:06.we would have access to the single market and not have the issues of

:08:07. > :08:10.free movement. But it is also important to stress, I think the

:08:11. > :08:14.important achievements of the Prime Minister in his renegotiation on

:08:15. > :08:18.putting the welfare break into effect. On dealing some of the

:08:19. > :08:23.factors as well also as the important steps he's taken on

:08:24. > :08:26.de-regulation. Some really important elements we have secured at that

:08:27. > :08:30.negotiation, not just for the benefit of the UK, but for the

:08:31. > :08:35.benefit of the UK as a whole, so we grow that economy. That we see other

:08:36. > :08:43.European nations succeeding and therefore creating the jobs and

:08:44. > :08:47.employment in their country. I recognition the concerns in relation

:08:48. > :08:54.to public sisters. They remain the -- public services. They remain of

:08:55. > :08:59.importance to this Government. We will take the measures to see the

:09:00. > :09:08.levels reduced and to address the concerns about public services that

:09:09. > :09:15.we see in our communities. Unlike my predecessor I see some

:09:16. > :09:19.positives in migration. I would cautious the member for Wokingham.

:09:20. > :09:24.Many of the GPs around the UK, particularly in areas like mine have

:09:25. > :09:31.trained overseas. They are helping our constituent constituents. We are

:09:32. > :09:35.brought jobs and prosperity, environment benefits and increases

:09:36. > :09:39.the sovereignty of our country. One in five carers looking after our

:09:40. > :09:45.growing older population have come to Britain from the European Union

:09:46. > :09:49.and elsewhere. And currently it is estimated there are 1.2 million UK

:09:50. > :09:53.citizens taking advantage of the free movement of labour and working

:09:54. > :09:57.overseas in the European Union or living overseas. It is a two-way

:09:58. > :10:02.process. In terms of the statement by the

:10:03. > :10:06.Office for National Statistics, to quote what Glenn Watson said this

:10:07. > :10:10.morning, "national insurance number registrations are not a good

:10:11. > :10:15.indicator of long-term migration. This shows many people who register

:10:16. > :10:23.for national insurance stay in the United Kingdom for less than a year.

:10:24. > :10:27.Which is the minimum stay for a long-term migrant according to the

:10:28. > :10:34.internationalally-recognised definition."

:10:35. > :10:39.I'm grateful to the library for their brief, in which they cite the

:10:40. > :10:44.national insurance manual which says, amongst other things,

:10:45. > :10:51.initially, applicants need to make an application, for a number, by

:10:52. > :10:57.telephone. They may then be required to attend an interview at a DWP

:10:58. > :11:00.Jobcentre plus office as HMRC guidance explains, and it goes on to

:11:01. > :11:05.cite the guidance. The right honourable member for Wokingham, I

:11:06. > :11:09.suspect, like me, when he turned 15, got his first job and had to go in

:11:10. > :11:13.person to apply for a national insurance number. He shakes his

:11:14. > :11:18.head, that is what I had to do, that was the system, perhaps he did not

:11:19. > :11:22.start work at 15 in a factory, as I did. The Government should look

:11:23. > :11:32.again at that system, rather than just mailing out numbers. I am not

:11:33. > :11:34.advocating a change, I'm advocating the Government looks again at the

:11:35. > :11:37.desirability of the system of face-to-face interviews for

:11:38. > :11:41.everyone. In relation to the last point, obviously that is a matter

:11:42. > :11:47.for colleagues in the DWP, and clearly we continue to assess these

:11:48. > :11:54.matters, but I think the key point that he was highlighting was on this

:11:55. > :11:58.issue of the long-term versus initial term, and the fact that the

:11:59. > :12:02.clear statement from the ONS indicates that the right measure to

:12:03. > :12:07.look at is the long-term immigration measure through the passenger survey

:12:08. > :12:13.data. That is the clearest way to set out the pressures of migration,

:12:14. > :12:16.and that is what they have said very clearly, how national insurance

:12:17. > :12:20.numbers are not an appropriate measure to assess for that purpose.

:12:21. > :12:27.Yes, they may, as they indicate, show trends or patterns, but in

:12:28. > :12:30.terms of the overall net migration numbers that the passenger survey

:12:31. > :12:34.remains conclusively the best measure that we have, and it is

:12:35. > :12:38.right that this Government should use the measure, as we have done

:12:39. > :12:42.consistently, following the UN definitions in terms of that

:12:43. > :12:45.mechanism. And therefore I know to what he has said, and indeed his

:12:46. > :12:53.endorsement of the ONS report this morning. Mr Kenneth Clarke. As my

:12:54. > :12:56.honourable friend seen the report produced by the London School of

:12:57. > :12:59.Economics this morning, which actually demonstrate that wages in

:13:00. > :13:04.this country continue to rise strongly after the first flood of

:13:05. > :13:10.arrivals from Poland and elsewhere arrived in this country? And the

:13:11. > :13:15.fall in wages that has followed in recent years is plainly caused by TD

:13:16. > :13:21.recession, the worst we have seen since the Second World War in 2007,

:13:22. > :13:27.and this refute some of the other arguments which some of the

:13:28. > :13:31.Brexiteers keep using. -- the deep recession. Does he except that the

:13:32. > :13:35.migrant crisis, which he and this country face at the moment, is a

:13:36. > :13:40.problem of how to deal in a civil light and effective way with the

:13:41. > :13:44.flood of people coming from war and anarchy in the Middle East and North

:13:45. > :13:48.Africa? And the problem is not Polish construction workers and

:13:49. > :13:54.Romanian nurses who make a very valuable contribution to the

:13:55. > :13:58.economic life of this country. Well, Mr Speaker, I must confess that I

:13:59. > :14:02.have not had the opportunity to see the LSE report that my right

:14:03. > :14:05.honourable friends has referred to, but I shall certainly make a point

:14:06. > :14:10.of seeking that out after I have left the chamber this morning. My

:14:11. > :14:14.right honourable friends clearly makes a strong point in terms of the

:14:15. > :14:18.challenges that we face in dealing with the migration crisis, and

:14:19. > :14:21.obviously there are clear steps this Government is taking both in region

:14:22. > :14:27.and in Europe to respond and deal with that. But I would also say, in

:14:28. > :14:31.relation to the issue of newly joining members of the EU, this

:14:32. > :14:36.Government is very clear on how we would lose our veto if we were not

:14:37. > :14:44.satisfied as to the terms of any new country joining the EU. -- use our

:14:45. > :14:48.veto. Therefore, those issues that we do recognise in relation to free

:14:49. > :14:51.movement, we will have to veto and certainly use it if we are not

:14:52. > :14:57.satisfied as to the terms of any new entrant. Members will, I'm sure,

:14:58. > :15:02.have it in the forefront of their minds to referred to national

:15:03. > :15:08.insurance numbers in the context of this urgent question. That is at its

:15:09. > :15:12.heart, as I feel sure Eilidh Whiteford is well aware! I am

:15:13. > :15:17.indeed, publication of this data this

:15:18. > :15:20.morning, because it gives us a better understanding of migration

:15:21. > :15:24.patterns, notwithstanding that on their own I do not think the

:15:25. > :15:26.national insurance registrations are a reliable indicator for measuring

:15:27. > :15:31.long-term international migration. It is vital that we remember that

:15:32. > :15:35.migration is a global phenomenon, not just a European issue, and that

:15:36. > :15:39.it is very much a two way street. In Scotland, we are well aware that for

:15:40. > :15:43.generations migration has meant that many of our citizens have had to

:15:44. > :15:46.move abroad, and even now many of our highly qualified young people

:15:47. > :15:51.leave to build careers in other parts of the world. I am also very

:15:52. > :15:55.conscious that, in some sectors of our economy, we are very heavily

:15:56. > :16:00.dependent on migrant labour, not least our NHS but also other parts

:16:01. > :16:04.of our public and private sectors. Migrant workers not only contribute

:16:05. > :16:10.to our economy but also help anchor the jobs of local workforce in the

:16:11. > :16:12.UK. I would like to ask the minister what assessment the Government has

:16:13. > :16:18.made of the number of UK industries and UK jobs that there are which

:16:19. > :16:23.depend on the free movement of labour within EU, and will he be

:16:24. > :16:26.forthright in dispelling myths about migration and in articulating the

:16:27. > :16:32.contribution that migrant workforce is made to our economy? Well, we

:16:33. > :16:36.have always come as a government, been clear that we want to track the

:16:37. > :16:41.skilled, the talented, the brightest and the best to contribute to UK

:16:42. > :16:45.economic growth, and therefore we have, for visa nationals from

:16:46. > :16:51.outside of the EU, a very clear policy in relation to responding to

:16:52. > :16:56.that. What we are concerned about in relation to the EU is perhaps the

:16:57. > :17:00.artificial draw that may come from benefits and, equally, ensuring that

:17:01. > :17:04.we have a skilled workforce here to meet the needs of the economy. That

:17:05. > :17:07.is why the work the Government has taken in relation to

:17:08. > :17:11.apprenticeships, and indeed the skills levy, that we will be

:17:12. > :17:16.producing in relation to our skilled visas, it is important so that we

:17:17. > :17:19.are providing the right people within this country with the skills

:17:20. > :17:25.to meet those needs, and therefore not being overly reliant on Labour

:17:26. > :17:31.from outside the UK. Doctor Liam Fox. Mr Speaker, the publication of

:17:32. > :17:35.these NI numbers is simply one more confirmation that there is no

:17:36. > :17:38.chance, zero, of us fulfilling our promise to the British people on

:17:39. > :17:42.immigration, to reduce it to the tens of thousands and less there is

:17:43. > :17:46.restriction on free movement of labour within the European Union.

:17:47. > :17:53.Since the Minister mentioned renegotiation, why did the

:17:54. > :17:55.Government not attempt in any way to get a reduction in that free

:17:56. > :18:00.movement as part of that renegotiation? Well, I say to my

:18:01. > :18:03.right honourable friends that we do remain focused on reducing net

:18:04. > :18:08.migration to those sustainable levels, and he will well though from

:18:09. > :18:12.the renegotiation that I have referred to, in relation to the

:18:13. > :18:16.welfare break, and indeed the point I made about competitiveness across

:18:17. > :18:20.the UK on dealing with the issues of unnecessary bureaucracy, and how I

:18:21. > :18:24.think that when we look at those differences between economies across

:18:25. > :18:28.the EU, how actually seeing that reform is the agenda that the Prime

:18:29. > :18:31.Minister has challenged is really essential in this as well. Plus of

:18:32. > :18:35.course those steps that we are taking within the UK to ensure that

:18:36. > :18:42.we have the right skills for the UK workforce as well. Dennis Skinner.

:18:43. > :18:49.This influx of especially East Europeans is not new. Because the

:18:50. > :18:53.displaced persons system that operated immediately after the end

:18:54. > :19:00.of the Second World War resulted in millions of people around Europe

:19:01. > :19:06.without jobs, without states, and I worked with many of them in the pits

:19:07. > :19:13.from East Europe, on the basis that they were members of our union, the

:19:14. > :19:20.NUM, they got paid the same money as we did, they did not undermine the

:19:21. > :19:24.workers in the traditional industries. Some of them were very

:19:25. > :19:30.much involved in the trade union movement, and yet today thousands,

:19:31. > :19:37.millions of people are on the move, and the Government cannot see the

:19:38. > :19:44.possibility of doing what we did in the late 1940s and insist upon union

:19:45. > :19:49.recognition, same pay for everybody, no undermining of workers' writes,

:19:50. > :19:53.and the net result would be no problem at all, and the rise of Ukip

:19:54. > :20:09.would disappear like snowflakes on an oven. Well! Mr Speaker, I... I...

:20:10. > :20:14.No, I think the honourable gentleman has made as point in his customary

:20:15. > :20:20.colourful way, but what I think I can say to him very clearly is that,

:20:21. > :20:24.on the fact that we see the four us, that on the Holy See what national

:20:25. > :20:28.insurance numbers, what this urgent question is about, they are not a

:20:29. > :20:34.good measure in relation to that long-term issue of migration. -- on

:20:35. > :20:38.the issue of national insurance numbers. The honourable gentleman

:20:39. > :20:43.may be more interested in snowflakes and union recognition, but I think

:20:44. > :20:48.that is for another debate. I am not sure I saw the minister last night

:20:49. > :20:55.at the world premiere of Brexit the Movie, but unfortunately it is not a

:20:56. > :20:58.war film. LAUGHTER

:20:59. > :21:03.A few months ago, the Prime Minister was telling us that unless he got

:21:04. > :21:09.his way on migration, he would consider leaving the EU. This was a

:21:10. > :21:13.minor change in migration figures and controls. The now says that if

:21:14. > :21:18.we leave the EU, there might be a third World war. -- he says. I

:21:19. > :21:22.brought the grass so that members can see the difference between the

:21:23. > :21:26.figures, we have no idea what net migration in this country is, it is

:21:27. > :21:32.out of control, and we need to get control back, and that is what he

:21:33. > :21:37.should have done with an brake. Well, Mr Speaker, I was not at the

:21:38. > :21:43.opening night of Brexit the Movie to discover whether my honourable

:21:44. > :21:50.friend had a starring role in the movie or not. Clearly, we will wait

:21:51. > :21:54.to see. But I say to him that the Office of National Statistics are

:21:55. > :21:58.very clear that the passenger survey remains the right way, in their

:21:59. > :22:05.judgment, to assess net migration, and that is the measure the

:22:06. > :22:11.Government will continue to use. I am very disappointed, I came into

:22:12. > :22:14.the chamber hoping to see a conspiracy exposed over national

:22:15. > :22:17.insurance numbers, and there is no conspiracy, so it has been a

:22:18. > :22:24.disappointing day. LAUGHTER

:22:25. > :22:30.Well, Mr Speaker, I am sorry always to disappoint the honourable

:22:31. > :22:37.gentleman. I think it is clearly from the clarity that the ONS have

:22:38. > :22:41.provided. Mr Bernard Jenkin. May I remind my

:22:42. > :22:44.right honourable friend of a report that the public as ministrations

:22:45. > :22:54.select committee be used in the last parliament which cast grave doubt on

:22:55. > :22:58.the accuracy and reliability of the statistics? The annual passenger

:22:59. > :23:02.survey is just that, a sample of passengers entering the United

:23:03. > :23:06.Kingdom. It may well be the best way of measuring our immigration, but we

:23:07. > :23:09.decided that they are not a reliable way of measuring immigration, and

:23:10. > :23:12.the very large rise in national insurance numbers show that

:23:13. > :23:17.something else is going on. May I just remind him that the last census

:23:18. > :23:21.micro show the British population was 467,000 people larger than the

:23:22. > :23:26.Government had understood it was, and a large proportion of that was

:23:27. > :23:30.due to unrecorded immigration? We do not have control over immigration

:23:31. > :23:34.into this country, because every EU citizen and their dependents at the

:23:35. > :23:38.right to come here and the Government as no means of excluding

:23:39. > :23:44.them, even if they are criminals and terrorists. On the last point, Mr

:23:45. > :23:50.Speaker, we do exclude those from the EU who may be involved in

:23:51. > :23:53.criminality or terrorism, and the Prime Minister's renegotiation has

:23:54. > :23:58.strengthened our ability to remove those who are here too. My

:23:59. > :24:02.honourable friend, my right honourable friend highlights the

:24:03. > :24:05.issue of the annual passenger survey. The ONS are very clear today

:24:06. > :24:10.in what they have said, that it remains the best measure to

:24:11. > :24:14.determine net migration. The national insurance numbers do not

:24:15. > :24:19.provide that. And yes, of course, the ONS, I am sure, will continue to

:24:20. > :24:23.review this, continued to assess what improvement may be made, but

:24:24. > :24:27.they have been specific today in saying that the passenger survey is

:24:28. > :24:32.the most effective way forward. Can I just ask the Minister to confirm

:24:33. > :24:35.that the number of Jobcentre plus offices that are able to issue

:24:36. > :24:39.national insurance numbers has been reduced? I have been told that

:24:40. > :24:46.someone who applied in York was told they had to travel to Hull to get a

:24:47. > :24:51.national insurance number. Well, what I can perhaps do for the

:24:52. > :24:52.honourable lady is I will write to her having consulted with colleagues

:24:53. > :25:07.from the DWP. Gerald Howarth. THE SPEAKER: We will hear from the

:25:08. > :25:12.honourable gentleman on another occasion - I feel sure. It may be a

:25:13. > :25:17.different question to what you expected.

:25:18. > :25:24.I'm delighted that the ONS has published its report and bust the

:25:25. > :25:29.myself these national insurance numbers -- myth that these ex-please

:25:30. > :25:33.the national insurance numbers. They are explicit that the main

:25:34. > :25:36.contribute tore these national insurance numbers are people here

:25:37. > :25:41.less than a year and therefore will not be included in the Government's

:25:42. > :25:48.immigration target, so have nothing to do with it whatsoever. Being kind

:25:49. > :25:53.to those arguing the case, they believe that short-term my grants

:25:54. > :25:59.are as bad as long-term migrants. Will the minister agree with me many

:26:00. > :26:04.of these groups who are short-term, including 27,000 teachers, 28,000

:26:05. > :26:08.care workers and 60,000 seasonal workers in the forming industry do

:26:09. > :26:17.tremendous things for this country in the public services and in the

:26:18. > :26:22.private sector? I am grateful to my honourable friend for making that

:26:23. > :26:27.clear point. As he and I recognise the benefit we gain from short-term

:26:28. > :26:32.migration from EU workers. It is important to recognise that those

:26:33. > :26:37.who equally may fall within this category may be students on

:26:38. > :26:40.short-term courses, short-term contractors and seasonal workers.

:26:41. > :26:43.The point is, it is short-term and they leave and therefore do not

:26:44. > :26:51.contribute to the long-term pressures. Is it not the case that

:26:52. > :26:55.national insurance numbers are issued, but not removed how can the

:26:56. > :27:01.Government estimate of the numbers which don't refer to people not here

:27:02. > :27:08.at all? Would he say gently to the campaign not to descend into dog

:27:09. > :27:13.whistle politics over migration. It It is important that we focus on

:27:14. > :27:16.national insurance numbers and what is the best measure in relation to

:27:17. > :27:21.that assessment of long-term migration. I think that is what the

:27:22. > :27:26.Office for National Statistics have clearly set out. And that is, I

:27:27. > :27:28.think, the issue to focus on. He obviously makes some important

:27:29. > :27:32.points in relation to national insurance numbers and the system

:27:33. > :27:38.itself. That is not the best mechanism for assessing that overall

:27:39. > :27:42.impact. These figures clearly laid bare that

:27:43. > :27:47.the Government is powerless to control EU immigration for the

:27:48. > :27:52.benefit of our public services. How does the Government justify our

:27:53. > :27:55.present immigration system which unfairly discriminates against

:27:56. > :28:01.economic migrants from outside the EU and would it will not be better

:28:02. > :28:06.on leaving the EU to design a fairer immigration policy with a level

:28:07. > :28:11.playing field for nationals of all countries, some of whom might be

:28:12. > :28:15.better qualifies? I will leaf -- qualified? I will leave it to the

:28:16. > :28:21.honourable gentleman to make it out for a case for all EU nationals,

:28:22. > :28:26.which is what he appears to taking forward. The Government has a clear

:28:27. > :28:31.approach on controlling migration from outside of the EU through our

:28:32. > :28:36.skills-based visas and other routes, as well as dealing the pressures we

:28:37. > :28:41.have highlighted on economic competitiveness as well as drawing

:28:42. > :28:49.with the draws such as through the welfare system.

:28:50. > :28:53.With discrepancies of 1.2 national insurance numbers reported and it

:28:54. > :28:57.having increased it is hard to tell whether new arrivals will stay for a

:28:58. > :29:02.few months or a few years. It means those who want to live permanently

:29:03. > :29:06.in Britain might have been incorrectly designated as visitors.

:29:07. > :29:09.What has been done to ensure that they are correctly identified,

:29:10. > :29:14.particularly in the difficult times when have accurate times is vital

:29:15. > :29:18.and being transparent is key for trust among the British people? I

:29:19. > :29:21.agree with the point that the honourable gentleman makes about the

:29:22. > :29:29.need for clarity and certainty in relation to the numbers. We

:29:30. > :29:34.obviously look to the independent Office for National Statistics, to

:29:35. > :29:36.give us that clarity. They have obviously said that the

:29:37. > :29:40.International Passenger Survey is the best measure they judge as

:29:41. > :29:45.appropriate for that and they continue to review, as they do from

:29:46. > :29:49.time to time, how best to ensure they are capturing the effective

:29:50. > :29:54.data on the interviews they do, as well as how that is extrapolated up

:29:55. > :30:00.in terms of the numbers they produce on a quarterly basis.

:30:01. > :30:04.Thank all-party talks Mr Speaker. I recognise what the minister has said

:30:05. > :30:08.about the reliability of the national insurance figures as a

:30:09. > :30:14.measure of immigration, but he must accept that there is a perception of

:30:15. > :30:20.significant uncertainty and am by guty over what the complete picture

:30:21. > :30:25.is. With significant pressure on public services I would urge the

:30:26. > :30:29.minister to respond to the concerns and outline what he thinks can be

:30:30. > :30:34.done to give a more balanced, overall picture on immigration and

:30:35. > :30:40.the concerns that exist there. Well, obviously one of the key elements is

:30:41. > :30:44.you need a strong economy to be able to support our public services. I

:30:45. > :30:48.would say in relation to the pressures on particular communities

:30:49. > :30:52.that is why the Government will be introducing a controlling migration

:30:53. > :30:57.fund, to assist those communities who may be specifically affected by

:30:58. > :31:00.increases in population linked to migration and it is why we will

:31:01. > :31:05.continue with the reforms to control migration.

:31:06. > :31:10.Thank you, Mr Speaker. The minister knows I represent a border

:31:11. > :31:14.constituency. I have constituents who cannot get national insurance

:31:15. > :31:20.numbers. They have worked in the south, pension in the south but paid

:31:21. > :31:23.tax in the UK and have been issued UK numbers under double taxation

:31:24. > :31:29.rules but they cannot get national insurance numbers. Can he assure me

:31:30. > :31:35.that sensitivity about these statistics and the EU migrants is

:31:36. > :31:39.not a factor in their predicament? I will make sure his comments about

:31:40. > :31:44.the availability of being able to obtain national insurance numbers is

:31:45. > :31:47.passed on to the colleagues at the Department for Work and Pensions. I

:31:48. > :31:51.would point to him the clear statements that the Office for

:31:52. > :31:55.National Statistics have stated in terms of the lack of a connection on

:31:56. > :31:59.the national insurance numbers to long-term migration and what I have

:32:00. > :32:05.indicated in terms of what the best measures are.

:32:06. > :32:10.Mr Speaker, it can quite clear from the minister 's answer to the our

:32:11. > :32:14.gent question that there are -- urgent question that there are more

:32:15. > :32:22.migrants here than previously thought at any one time. I expect

:32:23. > :32:27.he's a good poer player, can clearly bluff and miss represent the facts.

:32:28. > :32:32.That is out of order. Rephrase that...

:32:33. > :32:35.THE SPEAKER: I am sure the honourable gentleman wouldn't want

:32:36. > :32:41.to suggest that a minister has miss represented someone else.

:32:42. > :32:46.What I was trying to say was, rather in a clumsy way, is the minister

:32:47. > :32:50.would be a very good poker player and that, and he is an excellent

:32:51. > :32:58.minister. What I wanted to do, Mr Speaker, was give him some career

:32:59. > :33:02.guidance, because clearly the Prime Minister requires that the

:33:03. > :33:08.immigration numbers come down to the tens of thousands and this NI

:33:09. > :33:12.numbers has proven it cannot happen while we are in the EU. Could he

:33:13. > :33:17.advice the Prime Minister to change his position on the EU and recommend

:33:18. > :33:23.that people vote to come up so he can keep his job?

:33:24. > :33:30.Well I am always grateful for advice from my honourable friend on a range

:33:31. > :33:34.of issues. On this particular element, on our position within the

:33:35. > :33:41.EU, I am sorry to disappoint him, but we do differ on this particular

:33:42. > :33:46.issue and I believe that the UK would be stronger, more secure and

:33:47. > :33:50.better off from remaining within the EU.

:33:51. > :33:54.Thank you, Mr Speaker. My honourable friend has given an exposition on

:33:55. > :33:58.the position. However, there is a clear issue of large-scale EU

:33:59. > :34:02.migration to this country for people that want to work and our public

:34:03. > :34:06.services and many of our service industries depend on the people

:34:07. > :34:12.coming to actually do those jobs. But does he not accept that in a

:34:13. > :34:18.constituency like mine, which has grown from 2010 of 1,000 EU

:34:19. > :34:22.nationals, to now 10,000 EU nationals, in just five years, that

:34:23. > :34:27.you cannot say that's not a long-term position, because it

:34:28. > :34:31.clearly is. At the same time, members of my

:34:32. > :34:37.constituency cannot get their relatives in or the businesses to

:34:38. > :34:40.get skilled people in to do the jobs required from people from the

:34:41. > :34:47.Commonwealth. I say to my honourable friend that

:34:48. > :34:51.clearly we can point to the net migration statistics which show the

:34:52. > :34:55.challenges that do remain in relation to EU and non-EU migration

:34:56. > :34:59.and how those numbers are continuing to be higher than we want them to

:35:00. > :35:03.do. That -- them to be, that is why we continue on our reform agenda. I

:35:04. > :35:08.would say on our visas from outside of the EU, this is why we have the

:35:09. > :35:13.shortest occupation list to prioritise the skills which are

:35:14. > :35:22.particularly needed so the visas can be granted where the gaps exist.

:35:23. > :35:32.What these statistics which have been published today show is that

:35:33. > :35:39.the national insurance numbers have risen very much so, 2003 to 7

:35:40. > :35:43.thousand now and within the data I don't believe what the minister

:35:44. > :35:49.actually has said about this clarifying the issue is the case,

:35:50. > :35:54.because there's a variation in the estimate for the short-term element

:35:55. > :35:59.of more than 200,000. Now, over the next 14 years, the Government itself

:36:00. > :36:07.thinks that three million more will come and settle on a long-term basis

:36:08. > :36:12.from the EU. It will be five million at current rate. This has a

:36:13. > :36:15.tremendous impact on every constituency, including mine on

:36:16. > :36:21.housing, jobs and services. I just ask, does the Government not care

:36:22. > :36:25.about that? THE SPEAKER: Listening to and

:36:26. > :36:28.observing our proceedings today are a large number of school children.

:36:29. > :36:32.If they ask questions in class were as long as the questions we are

:36:33. > :36:36.getting today, they would probably be put in detention.

:36:37. > :36:40.Mr Speaker, I would not want to end up in detention, so I will be try

:36:41. > :36:47.and be as brief as I can in answer. I would point to the actual report

:36:48. > :36:53.which has been published and direct my honourable friend to that, which

:36:54. > :36:56.does say that short-term migration to the UK largely accounts for the

:36:57. > :37:00.differences between the number of long-term migrants and obviously the

:37:01. > :37:04.IPS is the best source of information. We care about this

:37:05. > :37:09.issue of pressure on public services which is why I have made the point

:37:10. > :37:14.during this urgent question session on the reforms to control migration.

:37:15. > :37:22.Think I that last question warranted a gold star rather than a detention.

:37:23. > :37:27.I am a great believer that the waves of migration that our country has

:37:28. > :37:29.had have been unbelievably beneficial for the country that I

:37:30. > :37:33.have proud to represent in this place. However, I am very

:37:34. > :37:39.disappointed with the Government because on 10th March, I asked for

:37:40. > :37:43.the numbers to be released. Yet, for some reason, through the

:37:44. > :37:47.cloak-and-daggers and smoke-filed rooms behind ministries these

:37:48. > :37:50.numbers benign were unable to be released until that point. Why was

:37:51. > :37:55.that? Well, what I would say to my

:37:56. > :37:59.honourable friend is there has been a clear can't of detailed work which

:38:00. > :38:06.has been conducted by the off figs of national statistics to produce --

:38:07. > :38:12.Office for National Statistics to produce work from the work and

:38:13. > :38:17.pensions and HMRS. I hope he will recognise this is different from the

:38:18. > :38:20.Office for National Statistics to give that clarity, which is what I

:38:21. > :38:27.think their report does. Is it not the case that the

:38:28. > :38:30.International Passenger Survey is by definition random and

:38:31. > :38:35.self-selecting? And is it not the best way to measure the number of

:38:36. > :38:39.people in this country by ensuring that passports and identity cards

:38:40. > :38:45.are swiped into the way into this country and on exiting this country?

:38:46. > :38:49.Well, I would certainly say to my honourable friend that the Office

:38:50. > :38:54.for National Statistics clearly says this is the best measure available

:38:55. > :39:01.to be able to assess our long-term net migration numbers. Clearly we

:39:02. > :39:07.will continue to see how issues such as the availability of exit check

:39:08. > :39:11.data my support the ONS's analysis. Their conclusions from the report

:39:12. > :39:16.today are clear that the International Passenger Survey

:39:17. > :39:20.remains the measure. National insurance numbers are only

:39:21. > :39:25.obtained by those who won't to work legally and pay the tax or claim

:39:26. > :39:29.benefits. Inevitably some EU nationals will be in the UK working

:39:30. > :39:34.illegally. What assessment has the minister

:39:35. > :39:38.made of the number of EU nationals working cash-in-hand without a

:39:39. > :39:43.national insurance number, taking the jobs of our constituents and

:39:44. > :39:49.what is he doing to prevent illegal working by EU nationals? My

:39:50. > :39:53.honourable friend makes a point about that - it is why the new

:39:54. > :39:57.immigration bill we have been debating this week does include new

:39:58. > :40:01.measures to target those who are engaging workers who do not have

:40:02. > :40:07.those rights to be here and indeed how we will be continuing to work

:40:08. > :40:10.across Government, with HMRCt Department for Work and Pensions to

:40:11. > :40:12.better identify those who are not complying the rules and to take firm

:40:13. > :40:25.action against them. What assessment of ministers made on

:40:26. > :40:29.future EU enlargement? I would say to my honourable friend that there

:40:30. > :40:33.is no prospect of Turkey joining the EU any time soon. It has significant

:40:34. > :40:37.steps that it would need to undertake as part of reform on a

:40:38. > :40:42.range of different elements, so that is not an issue, I think, relevance

:40:43. > :40:46.to this, but I would underline how the Government will use its veto to

:40:47. > :40:51.any new country seeking to join the EU if we are not satisfied as to the

:40:52. > :40:55.terms of that, particularly in relation to convergence and the

:40:56. > :41:03.impact it would have on labour markets across the EU. In my

:41:04. > :41:07.constituency, we have seen the highest level of Eastern European

:41:08. > :41:11.migration anywhere in the UK, driven by seasonal work, and I agree that

:41:12. > :41:15.NI numbers would be a terrible way of measuring migration in an area

:41:16. > :41:19.such as mine. But does he agree with me that in areas that have seen

:41:20. > :41:23.unusual concentrations of migration, we do need a better way of measuring

:41:24. > :41:30.migration if we are to adequately plan for public services? Well, I

:41:31. > :41:34.entirely recognise the point that my honourable friend makes about the

:41:35. > :41:39.particular pressures that certain areas in the UK have experienced as

:41:40. > :41:42.a consequence of migration. I recognise the benefits, equally,

:41:43. > :41:46.that are attached in terms of the contribution they make to our

:41:47. > :41:49.economy. It is, equally, why we are seeking to introduce the controlling

:41:50. > :41:53.migration fund to be able to assist certain areas where they are

:41:54. > :41:59.experiencing that growth in population linked to migration.

:42:00. > :42:04.Steve Baker. Mr Speaker, the Government's case rests on ignoring

:42:05. > :42:07.the argument set out by the former Secretary of State for Work and

:42:08. > :42:10.Pensions earlier this week, in particular into relation to people

:42:11. > :42:17.shuttling to and fro for a few months at a time, which would be a

:42:18. > :42:22.problem which would be ignored by looking at the passenger survey.

:42:23. > :42:26.Will he listen to Lord Rose, the chairman of the BSE campaign, who

:42:27. > :42:30.told the Treasury committee that the wages of the lowest paid would rise

:42:31. > :42:35.if we let the EU and took control of migration? Well, I would say to my

:42:36. > :42:44.honourable friend the contribution that those who arrive here actually

:42:45. > :42:49.make to our economy, around ?2.5 billion net contribution, and how

:42:50. > :42:55.that clearly is for our economy, while taking steps to reduce the

:42:56. > :42:59.artificial factors, very much focus other factors within our local

:43:00. > :43:02.areas, but equally how we get the right skills for our economy to

:43:03. > :43:06.ensure that we are giving young people in this country the best

:43:07. > :43:13.opportunity, which is precisely what our apprenticeships programme is all

:43:14. > :43:17.about. The Minister has sought to defend the Government position by

:43:18. > :43:21.continually referring to short-term workers, but witty and knowledge

:43:22. > :43:25.that short-term workers are replaced by further short-term workers, and

:43:26. > :43:28.therefore the pressure on public services is continuous and the

:43:29. > :43:36.denial or diminished opportunities for UK citizens to get those jobs is

:43:37. > :43:39.also continuous? Well, in terms of assessing pressures on population,

:43:40. > :43:45.that is about long-term net migration. That is the clear measure

:43:46. > :43:49.that we use, that is the UN definition, I think that remains

:43:50. > :43:54.absolutely the appropriate way to assess those issues, as we do, in

:43:55. > :43:57.respect of the potential growth in population, and why we do remain

:43:58. > :44:01.focused on the measure that the ONS are clearly set out today, the

:44:02. > :44:08.passenger survey and that assessment of long-term net migration. Thank

:44:09. > :44:16.you. Order. Statement, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and

:44:17. > :44:21.Sport. Secretary John Whittingdale. Thank you, Mr Speaker. With

:44:22. > :44:26.permission, I should like to make a statement. The Government is today

:44:27. > :44:29.laying before Parliament and depositing in the libraries of both

:44:30. > :44:35.houses a white paper on the BBC Charter review. The Royal Charter is

:44:36. > :44:40.the constitutional basis for the BBC. It is the framework for how the

:44:41. > :44:45.BBC is governed and guarantees its independence. The current Royal

:44:46. > :44:51.Charter will expire at the end of 2016. Today, we lay out our plans

:44:52. > :44:55.for the next one. The white paper represents the culmination of ten

:44:56. > :44:59.months' work. I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to the

:45:00. > :45:06.green paper consultation process, not least 190,000 members of the

:45:07. > :45:10.public. I am also very grateful to the team for their independent

:45:11. > :45:14.review of the governance and regulation of the BBC, two

:45:15. > :45:16.committees in both houses that made recommendations, and to all the

:45:17. > :45:23.stakeholders, BBC representatives and others who helped inform the

:45:24. > :45:28.deliberations. Mr Speaker, the BBC is one of the country's greatest

:45:29. > :45:31.institutions. 80% of those who responded to the green paper said

:45:32. > :45:39.that the BBC serves audiences very well or well, and every week the BBC

:45:40. > :45:44.reaches 97% of the UK population and 348 million people across the globe,

:45:45. > :45:48.informing, educating and entertaining them, and promoting

:45:49. > :45:54.Britain around the world. It is our overriding aim to ensure that the

:45:55. > :45:57.BBC continues to thrive in the media landscape that has changed beyond

:45:58. > :46:02.recognition since the last charter review ten years ago, and that it

:46:03. > :46:06.continues to deliver the best possible service for licence fee

:46:07. > :46:11.payers. So today we are setting out a framework for the BBC that allows

:46:12. > :46:15.it to focus on high-quality, distinctive content which informs,

:46:16. > :46:21.educate and entertain is, while also serving all audiences. Enhances its

:46:22. > :46:25.independence while also making it much more effective and accountable

:46:26. > :46:31.in its governance and regulation, makes support for the UK's creative

:46:32. > :46:35.industry central to the BBC operations, while at the same time

:46:36. > :46:39.minimising any undue negative market impacts. Increases the BBC's

:46:40. > :46:42.efficiency and transparency, and supports the BBC with a modern,

:46:43. > :46:48.sustainable and fair system of funding. Mr Speaker, the BBC's

:46:49. > :46:53.special public service ethos and funding allow it to take creative

:46:54. > :46:58.risks, to be innovative, and to produce high-quality content. That

:46:59. > :47:03.means more choice for listeners and viewers. The BBC delivers a huge

:47:04. > :47:07.number of outstanding programming, including in drama, news and current

:47:08. > :47:12.affairs, sport, science and the arts. Many have received awards, not

:47:13. > :47:17.least at the Baftas on Sunday, and they demonstrate that it is added to

:47:18. > :47:21.best, the BBC is still the finest broadcaster in the world. However,

:47:22. > :47:26.as the BBC Trust itself has recognised, in some areas, the BBC

:47:27. > :47:30.needs to be more ambitious, particularly on its more mainstream

:47:31. > :47:35.television, radio and online services. The BBC director-general

:47:36. > :47:40.has called for a BBC that is more distinctive than ever and clearly

:47:41. > :47:43.distinguishable from the market. The Government is emphatically not

:47:44. > :47:47.saying that the BBC should not be popular. Indeed, some of its most

:47:48. > :47:52.distinctive programmes, such as Life On Earth, The Wonders Of The

:47:53. > :48:01.Universe, Strictly Come Dancing, Jeremy Vine's show on BBC Radio nan

:48:02. > :48:08.Gaidheal, they have wide audience is because they are so good, but

:48:09. > :48:15.because of the share, with only 27% of people believing that the BBC

:48:16. > :48:19.makes programmes that are more daring than other broadcasters,

:48:20. > :48:23.commissioning editors should ask consistently of new programming, is

:48:24. > :48:26.this idea sufficiently innovative and high quality, rather than

:48:27. > :48:30.simply, how will it do in the ratings? So we will place a

:48:31. > :48:34.requirement to provide distinctive content and services at the heart of

:48:35. > :48:39.the BBC's overall core mission of informing, educating and

:48:40. > :48:42.entertaining in the public interest. And we will also affirmed the need

:48:43. > :48:48.for impartiality in its news and current affairs broadcasts. The

:48:49. > :48:52.BBC's distinct minimum content requirements will be replaced with a

:48:53. > :48:56.new licensing regime that will ensure its services are clearly

:48:57. > :49:00.differentiated from the rest of the market, so enhancing choice for

:49:01. > :49:04.licence fee payers, backed up by robust incentive structures. The BBC

:49:05. > :49:09.will also be required to give greater focus to underserved

:49:10. > :49:12.audiences, in particular those from black, Asian and ethnic minority

:49:13. > :49:16.backgrounds, and from the nations and regions who are currently less

:49:17. > :49:21.well served. This will involve the BBC building on its new diversity

:49:22. > :49:26.strategy, maintaining out of London production quotas, and ensuring that

:49:27. > :49:35.the BBC continues to provide for minority languages in its

:49:36. > :49:38.partnership with as for sake and MG Alba. We want the BBC to be the

:49:39. > :49:45.leading broadcaster in addressing issues of diversity. For the first

:49:46. > :49:48.time it will be enshrined in the new charter's public purposes, alongside

:49:49. > :49:51.with a commitment to serve all audiences, holding the BBC to

:49:52. > :49:57.account for delivering for everyone in the UK. Looking beyond these

:49:58. > :50:01.shores, the BBC World Service is rightly considered across the globe

:50:02. > :50:06.to be a beacon of impartial and objective news. It is vital, a vital

:50:07. > :50:09.corrective to the state-run propaganda of certain other

:50:10. > :50:15.countries, so we will protect its annual funding of ?254 million for

:50:16. > :50:18.five years, and also make available to work and ?89 million of

:50:19. > :50:21.additional government funding over the spending review period as

:50:22. > :50:29.announced by the Chancellor last year. -- available to a good and ?89

:50:30. > :50:32.million. Mr Speaker, all organisations need a governance and

:50:33. > :50:38.regulatory structure that is fit for purpose. The BBC's is not, and it is

:50:39. > :50:43.no longer supportable for the BBC to regulate itself. Governance

:50:44. > :50:45.failures, including excessive severance payments and a costly

:50:46. > :50:50.Digitial Media Initiative, have illustrated that the division of

:50:51. > :50:53.responsibilities between the BBC executive and the BBC Trust is

:50:54. > :51:03.confusing and ineffective. As the independent review led by Sir David

:51:04. > :51:07.Clementi made clear, there is widespread consent that reform is

:51:08. > :51:10.vital. The new charter will create a unitary board for the BBC that has a

:51:11. > :51:15.much clearer separation of governance and regulation. The board

:51:16. > :51:20.will be responsible for ensuring that the BBC's strategy, activity

:51:21. > :51:24.and output are in the public interest and accorded to the mission

:51:25. > :51:28.and purposes set out in the charter. Editorial decisions will remain the

:51:29. > :51:32.responsibility of the director-general, and his editorial

:51:33. > :51:38.independence will be explicitly enshrined in the charter, while the

:51:39. > :51:41.unitary board will consider any issues or complaints that arise

:51:42. > :51:47.post-transmission. And for the first time, the BBC will have the ability

:51:48. > :51:51.to appoint a majority of its board independently of government. This is

:51:52. > :51:56.a major change, as previously the BBC governors and then the members

:51:57. > :52:02.of the BBC Trust were all appointed by government. Mr Speaker, Ofcom has

:52:03. > :52:05.a proven track record as a regulator of media and telecoms. It is the

:52:06. > :52:09.right body to take on external regulation of the BBC. We will

:52:10. > :52:13.require Ofcom to establish new operating licences for the BBC with

:52:14. > :52:17.powers to ensure its findings are acted upon. It will also take charge

:52:18. > :52:20.of regulating the distribution framework and fair trading

:52:21. > :52:25.arrangements for the BBC. It will be a strong regulator to match a strong

:52:26. > :52:29.BBC. The Government will introduce more changes to make the BBC more

:52:30. > :52:33.accountable to those it serves. The charter review process will be

:52:34. > :52:40.separated from the political cycle by establishing an 11 year charter

:52:41. > :52:44.to 2027, with an opportunity to check the reforms are working as we

:52:45. > :52:48.intended at the mid-term. This will be the third longest charter in BBC

:52:49. > :52:52.history and allows for an orderly transition to the new arrangements.

:52:53. > :52:55.The BBC will become more accountable to the devolved nations. The

:52:56. > :53:00.complaint system will undergo a long overdue reform. And new expectations

:53:01. > :53:03.will be set for public engagement and responsiveness. These are major

:53:04. > :53:08.changes to the way that the BBC has governed, Mr Speaker, and they will

:53:09. > :53:11.take time to affect, and it is important that this process runs

:53:12. > :53:15.smoothly. The current BBC chair, Rona Fairhead, will remain in post

:53:16. > :53:21.for the duration of her current term, which ends in October 2018. Mr

:53:22. > :53:25.Speaker, the creative sector is one of this country's great success

:53:26. > :53:30.stories, growing at twice the rate of the rest of the economy since

:53:31. > :53:34.2008, and accounting for ?84 billion of gross value added and nearly 9%

:53:35. > :53:38.of service exports. The BBC should be at the core of the creative

:53:39. > :53:43.sector, supporting everyone from established players to SMEs. It is

:53:44. > :53:47.already a major purchaser, spending more than ?1 billion on the services

:53:48. > :53:53.of around 2700 suppliers involved in making programmes for the BBC. The

:53:54. > :53:57.BBC already allows up to 50% of its contents to be competed for by the

:53:58. > :54:01.independent sector. The Government now intends that the remaining 50%

:54:02. > :54:06.in house guarantee for television should be removed for all BBC

:54:07. > :54:09.content except news and related current affairs output, unless there

:54:10. > :54:13.is clear evidence that it would not provide value for money, all

:54:14. > :54:16.productions will be tendered. There will be phased introduction of this

:54:17. > :54:18.requirement, which will open up hundreds of millions of pounds of

:54:19. > :54:23.production expenditure to competition. This will only benefit

:54:24. > :54:26.the creative industries but is a fundamentally good thing for viewers

:54:27. > :54:29.and listeners, with BBC commissioning editors given greater

:54:30. > :54:33.freedom to pick the most creative ideas and broadcast the highest

:54:34. > :54:37.quality programmes. The BBC plans to make it in-house production unit a

:54:38. > :54:41.commercial subsidiary. We support these plans in principle, providing

:54:42. > :54:45.they meet the necessary rigour late three approvals. However, the BBC

:54:46. > :54:49.can, by virtue of its size and scale, potentially have a negative

:54:50. > :54:53.impact on the media market, crowding out investment and deterring new

:54:54. > :54:56.entrants, so Ofcom will be given the power to assess all aspects of BBC

:54:57. > :55:00.services to see how they impact on the market with proportionate powers

:55:01. > :55:06.to sanction. Rather than seeing other players as rivals, the BBC

:55:07. > :55:09.should proactively seek to enhance, bolster, work in partnership with

:55:10. > :55:13.the wider broadcasting and creative industries. There will be a focus on

:55:14. > :55:17.this in the new charter. And in particular, the BBC will support and

:55:18. > :55:19.invigorate local democracy across the UK, working with local news

:55:20. > :55:34.outlets. That will allow other broadcasters

:55:35. > :55:38.and producers to make more public content, such as programmes for

:55:39. > :55:43.children and black, ethnic audiences. It will be worth ?20

:55:44. > :55:49.million a year and will be paid for from unallocated fund from the 2010

:55:50. > :55:56.licence fee agreement. There'll be more transparency in the way the BBC

:55:57. > :56:00.promotes its services and to subject areas towards areas of high public

:56:01. > :56:05.value. It will be expected to share its content and open up its archive,

:56:06. > :56:11.so other organisations and the public can enjoy its many treasures.

:56:12. > :56:15.Mr Speaker, it belongs to all of us, making its archive more ability is

:56:16. > :56:19.one part of a broader opening up process. We want the BBC to be much

:56:20. > :56:24.more transparent, in particular about improvements. The BBC plans to

:56:25. > :56:29.make ?1.5 billion of savings by the end of this charter period. The BBC

:56:30. > :56:35.Trust has driven some improvements. The BBC needs to become more

:56:36. > :56:41.accountable. Nearly 23% of the public believes the BBC is efficient

:56:42. > :56:45.and licence-payers need the fee to be spent every more spent more

:56:46. > :56:49.wisely. So, Mr Speaker the National Audit Office which has an

:56:50. > :56:53.outstanding track record will become the financial auditor of the BBC and

:56:54. > :56:59.have the power to conduct value for money investigations of the BBC's

:57:00. > :57:03.activities with appropriate safeguards for editorial matters. To

:57:04. > :57:07.ensure the BBC is transparent and efficient in its spending by

:57:08. > :57:47.reporting expenditure by genre. The Government expecting the broad

:57:48. > :57:51.to cover other which can improve... And research and development

:57:52. > :57:55.activity laying out subjectives for the future. Finally the BBC needs a

:57:56. > :57:58.fair, accountable and sustainable accounting system which is fit for

:57:59. > :58:02.the future. There's no perfect model for the funding of the BBC. But

:58:03. > :58:09.given the stability it provides and the lack of clear public support for

:58:10. > :58:13.any alternative model the licence fee remains the most appropriate

:58:14. > :58:17.model. The licence fee has been frozen at ?145. 50 since 2010. We

:58:18. > :58:23.will end this freeze and will increase the licence fee in line

:58:24. > :58:28.with inflation, ot which point there'll be a new settlement. In

:58:29. > :58:34.line with other reforms it means the BBC will have a flat cash settlement

:58:35. > :58:38.to 2021-22. It gives the BBC the certainty and the funding levels it

:58:39. > :58:44.needs to deliver its updated mission and purpose and it will ensure the

:58:45. > :58:48.BBC will remain one of the best funded public funded broadcasters in

:58:49. > :58:56.the world receiving more than ?18 billion from 2017-18 to 2021-22.

:58:57. > :58:59.Future settlements will be made using a new process every five years

:59:00. > :59:05.giving the BBC greater independence from Government. The concession for

:59:06. > :59:10.over 75s will be protected during this Parliament. We will give the

:59:11. > :59:16.BBC more freedom to manage its budgets, protected funding of ?150

:59:17. > :59:21.million a year for broadband and ?5 million for local television will be

:59:22. > :59:30.phased out. The World Service will be an exception to this. The current

:59:31. > :59:33.system needs to be fairer. We will close the iPlayer loophole, meaning

:59:34. > :59:38.those who watch on demand will need a licence like everyone else.

:59:39. > :59:43.There'll be a system to those on lower incomes and make it fairer to

:59:44. > :59:47.everyone. People have to bay for if first year, meaning six higher

:59:48. > :59:51.monthly payments. We will take forward many of the recommendations

:59:52. > :59:56.from the review to make the process of investigating and prosecuting

:59:57. > :00:00.licence fee evasion more effective and fair. The licence fee remains

:00:01. > :00:05.the best way of funding the BBC for this charteder period, it is likely

:00:06. > :00:09.to become less sustainable as the media landscape continues to evolve.

:00:10. > :00:12.The Government therefore welcomes the BBC's intention to explore

:00:13. > :00:17.whether additional revenue could be raised at home and abroad from

:00:18. > :00:23.additional subscription services sitting alongside the core universal

:00:24. > :00:26.fee. The Government is clear any new offer would be for additional

:00:27. > :00:32.services beyond what the BBC offers. It would be for the BBC to look at

:00:33. > :00:36.these plans. We expect it to have progress in order to feed into the

:00:37. > :00:40.next Charter Review process. We would like to see BBC content become

:00:41. > :00:44.portable so licence fee payers have access when travelling abroad. Mr

:00:45. > :00:50.Speaker, the BBC is and must always remain at the very heart of British

:00:51. > :00:54.life. We want the BBC to thrive, to make fantastic programmes for

:00:55. > :00:58.audiences and to act as an engine for growth and creativity. Our

:00:59. > :01:02.reforms give the BBC much greater independence from Government, in

:01:03. > :01:05.editorial matters, in setting budgets and through a longer charter

:01:06. > :01:09.period. They secure the funding of the BBC and help to develop new

:01:10. > :01:13.funding models for the future. The reforms will assist the BBC to

:01:14. > :01:17.fulfil its own stated desire to become more distinctive and to

:01:18. > :01:20.better reflect the diverse nature of its audience. They place the BBC at

:01:21. > :01:24.the heart of the creative industries as a partner of the local and

:01:25. > :01:29.commercial sectors, not a rival. The BBC will operate in a more robust

:01:30. > :01:40.and more clearly defined gove very innocence and Graham work. -- and

:01:41. > :01:42.very governance. It can inform, educate and entertain for many years

:01:43. > :01:43.to come. I commend this statement to the

:01:44. > :01:55.House. Thank you, Mr Speak. Can I thank the

:01:56. > :01:59.Secretary of State for his statement and for early sight of it. Despite

:02:00. > :02:03.him being very coy yesterday in this House when we asked about his plans

:02:04. > :02:09.he seems to have managed to brief a large part of it, the contents of

:02:10. > :02:14.the White Paper to various papers overnight. A deplorable state of

:02:15. > :02:20.affairs. For the last few weeks, Mr Speaker, we've had to read a

:02:21. > :02:24.briefing to Conservative newspapers, especially those hostile to the BBC,

:02:25. > :02:29.which appears to have emanated from his department. The fact most of his

:02:30. > :02:33.wilder proposals appear to have been watered down or dumped or delayed by

:02:34. > :02:37.the Government of which he's a member is a reflection of his

:02:38. > :02:41.diminishing influence and lack of cloud. He's not got his way in most

:02:42. > :02:46.things, Mr Speaker and I welcome that. There's no... Mr Speaker,

:02:47. > :02:57.there's no point him denying that he's been overruled by the

:02:58. > :03:05.department and... He wants it diminished in scope and size. He

:03:06. > :03:10.recently told an audience in bridge that it

:03:11. > :03:18.If it is not renewed as a tempting prospect. He spent time in speeches

:03:19. > :03:21.trying to tell the BBC they should not be making popular programmes and

:03:22. > :03:25.if they do they should be scheduled at times when fewer people will

:03:26. > :03:32.watch them. The truth is, Mr Speaker, that in large part he's not

:03:33. > :03:38.got his way. His views, Mr Speaker, are also totally out of step with

:03:39. > :03:42.the licence fee pay quers who value and support -- payers who value and

:03:43. > :03:48.support the BBC. I said yesterday that the opposition believe that the

:03:49. > :03:52.BBC charter should have governance arrangements which will guarantee

:03:53. > :03:57.editorial independence, guarantee the BBC's financial independence and

:03:58. > :04:01.refrain from interfering the BBC's mission to inform, education and

:04:02. > :04:06.entertain us all. We will examine the white paper in

:04:07. > :04:09.detail to see how well it measures up against these criteria. I can say

:04:10. > :04:14.that I welcome the fact that the length of the charter, the new

:04:15. > :04:19.charter s to be 11 years. I am concerned with the imposition

:04:20. > :04:23.of a break clause which will in effect reduce it to five years, or

:04:24. > :04:27.five-and-a-half years. This doesn't really give the BBC the certainty

:04:28. > :04:33.and stability it requires to get on with the job. I also welcome the

:04:34. > :04:38.fact that the licence fee is to continue until 2022, increased by

:04:39. > :04:46.inflation. But we wait to see how his proposals over the second half

:04:47. > :04:50.of the charter period develop and we will look at what the Government

:04:51. > :04:56.does at that stage. Mr Speaker, I still have some major concerns. On

:04:57. > :05:01.governance, I said yesterday that it's simply unacceptable for a

:05:02. > :05:05.majority of the unity board which will have major influence over

:05:06. > :05:09.output and editorial decisions to be appointed by the Government. Today

:05:10. > :05:13.we learn he only plans up to at least half of the booshd will be

:05:14. > :05:18.Government appointees. This board will run the BBC, despite what he

:05:19. > :05:22.says. It will have influence over output and therefore over editorial

:05:23. > :05:29.decisions. It is different, a unitary board to

:05:30. > :05:34.appointing governors or trustees who have had no power if their role to

:05:35. > :05:38.run the BBC day-to-day. His suggestions that these proposals

:05:39. > :05:44.enhance the independence of the BBC are hard to reconcile with reality.

:05:45. > :05:49.We have seen overnight a political campaign - the leave campaign,

:05:50. > :05:54.headed up by Cabinet ministers threatening a broadcaster with

:05:55. > :05:56.unspecified consequences for doing something which Cabinet ministers

:05:57. > :06:01.didn't like. How much more serious a threat would

:06:02. > :06:05.that be if the Cabinet ministers got to appoint at least half of the

:06:06. > :06:12.board of the broadcaster concerned. Yet that is the prospect facing the

:06:13. > :06:18.BBC under his plans. So, Mr Speaker, I am still worried that the

:06:19. > :06:21.Government is seeking unduly to influence the output and editorial

:06:22. > :06:26.decision making of the BBC or can be seen to be doing so. So, will the

:06:27. > :06:31.Secretary of State now promise that all Government appointments will be

:06:32. > :06:35.made by a demonster aably independent process, overseen by the

:06:36. > :06:38.commissioner for public appointments which prevents there being any

:06:39. > :06:42.suspicion that the Government seeks to turn the BBC into something over

:06:43. > :06:48.which it has more control than is currently the case. Reports in

:06:49. > :06:54.today's newspapers that the Prime Minister has personally intervened

:06:55. > :07:01.to insist that there is a new chair of the board do not bode well in

:07:02. > :07:08.this respect. I make no comments on the comments of Rona Fairhead, but

:07:09. > :07:14.there's been no discussion to reach such a decision, only a ministerial

:07:15. > :07:19.diktat. It does not seem to bode well. On financial independence, a

:07:20. > :07:24.funding agreement was struck by the Chancellor with the BBC last year

:07:25. > :07:28.and we will be looking to ensure it is met in full by the Government. No

:07:29. > :07:35.more top-slicing and I welcome what he said about that in a statement

:07:36. > :07:39.today, no siphoning off of licence fee payers' money into funds to be

:07:40. > :07:45.simply given to other broadcasters. So we are glad that that respect

:07:46. > :07:50.that his pot proposals, widely briefed out in advance of the

:07:51. > :07:54.publication of the White Paper are now somewhat shrunken and are to be

:07:55. > :07:58.consulted upon. Will he give the House an assurance that he will

:07:59. > :08:02.listen to the results of that consultation and be prepared if

:08:03. > :08:10.necessary and if that is the outcome of the consultation to abandon these

:08:11. > :08:13.proposals. On the BBC's mission statement I am very concerned that

:08:14. > :08:18.he wants to change the mission of the BBC when it has worked well for

:08:19. > :08:26.more than 90 years and it is supported by the public. There is a

:08:27. > :08:32.great virtue to current phraseology of that mission. However, given what

:08:33. > :08:37.he said today, we will look at what he's proposing to see how it might

:08:38. > :08:41.work. I do not believe, Mr Speaker, that his on is session with

:08:42. > :08:47.distinctiveness should be imported into the BBC's mission statement.

:08:48. > :08:53.However, we will look at what wording he prop oh poses and see --

:08:54. > :08:57.proposes and see whether or not we have any concerns about what the

:08:58. > :09:02.implications will be. Can I also welcome his focus on improving the

:09:03. > :09:07.diversity of the BBC in respect of both its staffing and the way in

:09:08. > :09:11.which it produces its output. Again I am not concerned that the mission

:09:12. > :09:19.statement is the best place to put this. But nonetheless, we will look

:09:20. > :09:22.closely at what he's proposed and I welcome the general remarks and his

:09:23. > :09:27.intentions in that respect. We do not on this side of the House accept

:09:28. > :09:32.his assertion that the size and scale of the BBC crowds out

:09:33. > :09:37.investment and has a negative impact on the media market. Quite the

:09:38. > :09:40.opposite. The BBC already works well with other UK creative industries,

:09:41. > :09:46.with other broadcasters to the benefit of all and he might be

:09:47. > :09:51.better advised to keep his nose out of this rather than to tell them how

:09:52. > :09:59.to do the job that they do on a day-to-day basis. He ought to stop

:10:00. > :10:05.meddling and let them get on with the job. In respect of Ofcom, we

:10:06. > :10:10.noted what he's said about the new and enhanced role that Ofcom will

:10:11. > :10:16.have in regulating the BBC. It will be a big job.

:10:17. > :10:23.It will be a big job, and Ofcom already has a lot on its pledge, can

:10:24. > :10:27.you guarantee that it will be given the proper resource in terms of

:10:28. > :10:30.staffing and expertise and money to do the job that he now expects them

:10:31. > :10:36.to do? He has said nothing about that in his statement today, yet it

:10:37. > :10:40.is an important part of whether or not this will work, how they are

:10:41. > :10:45.going to be able to do this job. In respect of what he said about the

:10:46. > :10:50.national audit of this, Mr Speaker, I respect the National Audit Office

:10:51. > :10:55.and its work very much, and I think everybody in this House does, and so

:10:56. > :10:59.I have no objection. I noted that he said in a statement that there will

:11:00. > :11:03.be appropriate safeguards for editorial independence once value

:11:04. > :11:08.for money reports are able to be done, and that is tremendously

:11:09. > :11:12.important. It needs to be totally clear that any work the national

:11:13. > :11:16.audit of this does does not interfere with the editorial

:11:17. > :11:20.independence of the BBC, so we will look to see the details of those

:11:21. > :11:26.safeguards, and I hope that he will be very open in setting out what

:11:27. > :11:30.that detail might be. Now, Mr Speaker, the BBC is one of the UK's

:11:31. > :11:35.most successful and loved institutions. There has developed a

:11:36. > :11:39.feeling both inside this parliament and outside and that the Government

:11:40. > :11:45.is seeking inappropriate influence over the BBC, so will he now agree

:11:46. > :11:49.that when his proposals are debated, in both Houses of Parliament, that

:11:50. > :11:56.it should be on the substantive motion that will enable both houses

:11:57. > :12:02.to express their views by way of a vote? Jumped the shark there, Maria!

:12:03. > :12:06.I do have some sympathy with the right on a lady who, of course, had

:12:07. > :12:10.a dry run at this yesterday and rehearsed all the lines of attack,

:12:11. > :12:17.only to wake up this morning to discover that all the concerns were

:12:18. > :12:25.based on ill founded hysterical speculation by left-wing lobbies and

:12:26. > :12:28.others, and that in actual fact what the Government proposes has been

:12:29. > :12:35.widely welcomed by, amongst others, the BBC. She said yesterday that she

:12:36. > :12:40.would judge the Government proposals on three key tests. She said they

:12:41. > :12:43.must guarantee financial independence, editorial

:12:44. > :12:49.independence, and it must help the BBC to fulfil its mission to inform,

:12:50. > :12:53.educate and entertain us all. I can tell her that the white paper not

:12:54. > :12:59.only meets those three tests, it exceeds them, and that is exactly

:13:00. > :13:02.what we intend to do. Now, she did raise some questions of detail,

:13:03. > :13:07.nevertheless important ones, I accept, and I am happy to give her

:13:08. > :13:10.the answers. In terms of the length of the charter, I am grateful for

:13:11. > :13:15.her welcome that it will be for 11 years and take it out of the

:13:16. > :13:18.political and electoral cycle. The mid-term review is not a mini

:13:19. > :13:23.charter review, it is simply a health check to allow the Government

:13:24. > :13:26.just to ensure that the reforms we are putting in place, which are

:13:27. > :13:30.substantial, are working properly. It would be ridiculous to find it

:13:31. > :13:36.was not working and not be able to do anything it for another 11 years.

:13:37. > :13:43.On governance, I would point out, first of all, that this is the first

:13:44. > :13:48.time when the BBC board, the body which has overall responsibility for

:13:49. > :13:51.running the BBC, will have at least half and possibly more than half

:13:52. > :13:57.appointed independently by the BBC themselves. I would point out to her

:13:58. > :14:01.that, throughout the period in which her party was in government, the

:14:02. > :14:05.appointments made were made wholly by the Government without even the

:14:06. > :14:11.public appointments process, and I can say to her that the appointments

:14:12. > :14:15.which will be made by the Government are six positions. They will be

:14:16. > :14:18.subject to the public appointments process, so they will involve the

:14:19. > :14:22.office of the commission of public appointments, and of course three of

:14:23. > :14:25.them will be in consultation with the devolved administration of

:14:26. > :14:29.Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. It will then be for the BBC

:14:30. > :14:34.to decide how many other board members there should be, ranging

:14:35. > :14:38.from six to perhaps eight, and who should be chosen to do that. But the

:14:39. > :14:43.other point I would make to her, which I set out very clearly in my

:14:44. > :14:48.statement, is that the board will have no involvement in editorial

:14:49. > :14:51.decision-making. The Director-General remains the editor

:14:52. > :14:56.in chief, he is responsible for editorial matters, and the board's

:14:57. > :14:59.involvement will only come after transmission. They will not be

:15:00. > :15:08.influencing the editorial content. In terms of transition, these are

:15:09. > :15:11.substantial changes, and we do think it right that the existing chairman

:15:12. > :15:16.should continue in posts to oversee the transition to the new

:15:17. > :15:21.arrangement, and she will be there until October 2018, and of course

:15:22. > :15:25.she herself was appointed through the public appointments process. And

:15:26. > :15:29.in terms of the funding agreement, I can confirm to the right honourable

:15:30. > :15:33.lady that it will be met in full, there will be no top slicing. We are

:15:34. > :15:36.not go to read it for any other purposes, as indeed her governments

:15:37. > :15:44.did when she was in office. The contestable part is outside of the

:15:45. > :15:49.July licence fee funding settlement. It is intended to provide additional

:15:50. > :15:53.opportunities for production companies specifically serving

:15:54. > :15:57.children's audiences or black and Asian and minority ethnic audiences,

:15:58. > :16:02.and that is something we will work on further. On the mission

:16:03. > :16:08.statement, she said that, somehow, we had complicated the original

:16:09. > :16:11.Trinity. I would just point out to her that, actually, our mission

:16:12. > :16:14.statement currently is not the simple weekly and Trinity which is

:16:15. > :16:18.so often quoted. The current one says that it is for the promotion of

:16:19. > :16:23.public purposes through the provision of output which consists

:16:24. > :16:28.of education and entertainment. That is not quite as snappy as the

:16:29. > :16:31.original educate, inform and entertain. All we have done is make

:16:32. > :16:37.it more so sink and say that those three objectives should be delivered

:16:38. > :16:44.by producing high-quality, distinctive content and impartial

:16:45. > :16:47.news. -- make it more so sink. I would question whether she disagrees

:16:48. > :16:51.with any of those provisions, whether she feels the BBC should not

:16:52. > :16:56.make distinctive programming or should not be impartial. Her

:16:57. > :17:03.concerns about Ofcom are perfectly justified, she is right that Ofcom

:17:04. > :17:07.will need resourcing to undertake considerable new responsibilities.

:17:08. > :17:10.At the moment, the BBC Trust is paid for out of the licence fee, and it

:17:11. > :17:15.would be our hope that the regulatory cost of overseeing the

:17:16. > :17:20.BBC will be less once Ofcom takes it over than the existing cost of the

:17:21. > :17:29.BBC Trust. But Ofcom will be financed from the licence fee, just

:17:30. > :17:33.as the BBC Trust is at present is. On the National Audit Office, it

:17:34. > :17:36.will be made explicit, there is no disagreement between the National

:17:37. > :17:39.Audit Office and the BBC on this, they will not involve themselves in

:17:40. > :17:48.editorial matters, and I would simply finish by saying to the right

:17:49. > :17:53.honourable lady that she has had to make the best of pretending that

:17:54. > :17:58.this white paper threatens the BBC, but it does not, and this is what

:17:59. > :18:01.the BBC Trust has this morning said. The chairman has said, constructive

:18:02. > :18:06.engagement between the Government, the BBC and the public has delivered

:18:07. > :18:10.a white paper that sets good principles, strengthens the BBC's

:18:11. > :18:13.governance and regulation, and cements a financial settlement that

:18:14. > :18:19.will sustain the strong BBC that the public love. Order! I would just

:18:20. > :18:23.point out that the opening exchanges between the Secretary of State and

:18:24. > :18:27.the shadow Secretary of State have absorbed no fewer than 33 minutes,

:18:28. > :18:32.so I look first to the author of the textbook on brevity, from whom

:18:33. > :18:39.honourable members should take their cue. John Redmond. Will be Secretary

:18:40. > :18:42.of State included in the charter the requirement that England is

:18:43. > :18:51.recognised as a nation by the BBC, just as the BBC recognises Scotland?

:18:52. > :18:56.Well, the BBC will have a duty to serve all the nations and regions,

:18:57. > :19:00.and that does indeed include England, and of the six appointee is

:19:01. > :19:06.under the public appointments process by the Government four of

:19:07. > :19:10.those will be non-executive directors, each of whom will have an

:19:11. > :19:15.additional responsibility of representing each nation of the UK,

:19:16. > :19:20.and therefore there will be a nonexecutive director whose

:19:21. > :19:25.additional responsibility will be to represent the interests of English

:19:26. > :19:31.licence fee payers. I would also like to thank the Secretary of State

:19:32. > :19:34.for advance site of his speech. The Scottish National Party strongly

:19:35. > :19:37.supports public service broadcasting, and we on these

:19:38. > :19:41.benches want to ensure that the BBC continues to provide distinctive,

:19:42. > :19:46.high-quality output. The charter renewal process provides a

:19:47. > :19:50.opportunity to celebrate the many successes of the BBC but also as a

:19:51. > :19:56.critical friend to reflect aways on which it could improve, and while we

:19:57. > :20:00.have had disagreements with the BBC, added best it is unsurpassed. There

:20:01. > :20:04.are a number of welcome proposals in this white paper. We on these

:20:05. > :20:09.benches think it is right to break the link between the electoral cycle

:20:10. > :20:13.and the charter length. We also welcome the abolition of the BBC

:20:14. > :20:19.Trust, and its replacement by a unitary board. It is vital that the

:20:20. > :20:24.board should be as diverse as possible, including representations

:20:25. > :20:27.from the nations and, crucially, more BME minority representation, as

:20:28. > :20:32.we all agreed in our recent debate in this house. These are also the

:20:33. > :20:35.conclusions of the DCMS select committee, ably chaired by the

:20:36. > :20:42.member for Hartford and south Hertfordshire. We are pleased that

:20:43. > :20:46.some of the more outlandish notions floated by the Government through

:20:47. > :20:50.the press appear to have been quietly parked. The Secretary of

:20:51. > :20:53.State gave us advanced notice yesterday that one of the most

:20:54. > :20:59.visible, namely that the BBC might be prevented from scheduling poplar

:21:00. > :21:04.programmes against ITV's popular programmes, has died a quiet death.

:21:05. > :21:09.I noticed too that proposals to publish all talent's salaries has

:21:10. > :21:13.been abandoned. We will learn who is on ?450,000 per year and above, but

:21:14. > :21:21.we will not now learn who is struggling by on ?300,000 a year!

:21:22. > :21:26.Diane Abbott! We have long learn that charter renewal is an

:21:27. > :21:29.opportunity for the BBC to be bolder in Scotland to reflect the lives of

:21:30. > :21:33.Scottish audiences. Like the director-general, we want to see the

:21:34. > :21:40.production sector grow in Scotland, and we welcome ongoing commitment to

:21:41. > :21:44.the Gallic language MG Alba. We also want to see meaningful editorial and

:21:45. > :21:49.financial control rest in Scotland. To this end, like most Scots, both

:21:50. > :21:57.inside and out with the BBC, we want to see a Scottish Six to replace the

:21:58. > :21:59.overly parochial offering. We are pleased that the BBC agrees and is

:22:00. > :22:07.currently secretly piloting alternatives. The BBC in Scotland is

:22:08. > :22:12.sadly less trusted, Mr Speaker, than in any of the other constituent

:22:13. > :22:17.countries in the United Kingdom. Its staff deserve better, Scotland... If

:22:18. > :22:23.you would like to intervene, I would be more than happy. Come up to me

:22:24. > :22:28.afterwards, Ireland your point! See you outside! The staff deserve

:22:29. > :22:33.better, and Scotland deserves better. The Secretary of State tells

:22:34. > :22:37.us today that he agrees, calling audiences in the nations

:22:38. > :22:42.underserved. He is preaching to the choir on these benches. Mr Speaker,

:22:43. > :22:47.I hope that this white paper marks a milestone, allowing the BBC to learn

:22:48. > :22:53.from its mistakes, listen to its audiences, and build on its proudest

:22:54. > :22:56.traditions. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman, who of course

:22:57. > :23:01.has an expert knowledge on the workings of the BBC, and I welcome

:23:02. > :23:05.the fact that he is able to support a number of the proposals we have

:23:06. > :23:09.set out in a white paper. He referred to a couple of things which

:23:10. > :23:15.were not in the white paper, such as a proposal that the BBC should not

:23:16. > :23:18.schedule popular programmes against ITV's popular programmes. I have

:23:19. > :23:22.said until I am blue in the face that the BBC has no wish and should

:23:23. > :23:26.not have the ability to tell the BBC went to schedule programmes, and

:23:27. > :23:32.therefore the fact that it does not appear in the white paper should not

:23:33. > :23:36.come as a great surprise to him. On the fact that we are intending that

:23:37. > :23:41.the BBC should publish the salaries of its talent earning more than

:23:42. > :23:46.?450,000, we also say that we help the BBC will go further in judokas

:23:47. > :23:52.in obtaining greater transparency. -- in due course. That is something

:23:53. > :23:57.which we will continue to talk to the BBC about. The specific point he

:23:58. > :24:01.raises about the BBC's need to serve the nations, and in particular

:24:02. > :24:08.Scotland, the two elements in the white paper which we do believe will

:24:09. > :24:12.make a significant difference, firstly the confirmation that one of

:24:13. > :24:16.the members of the board will be there to act as a voice for Scotland

:24:17. > :24:21.as well as bringing additional skills, but, secondly, that there

:24:22. > :24:25.will be a specific service licence for Scotland which Ofcom will issue,

:24:26. > :24:30.as it will for the other nations of the UK, which will set out the

:24:31. > :24:34.expectations of how the BBC will go about meeting that requirement. He

:24:35. > :24:39.may be aware, I am not sure whether he has yet seen that the BBC has

:24:40. > :24:44.sent a letter this morning to the Cabinet Secretary for culture,

:24:45. > :24:47.external affairs in the Scottish Government, who I talked to

:24:48. > :24:51.yesterday afternoon, in which the BBC does set out in more detail some

:24:52. > :24:55.of its proposals, because a lot of this is a matter for the BBC and not

:24:56. > :24:59.the Government, but I would highlight just one commitment

:25:00. > :25:04.contained variant, when he says that in the next charter period the BBC

:25:05. > :25:06.will continue its commitment to spend network television bludgeon

:25:07. > :25:10.lovelier line with the population size of each nation. There will be

:25:11. > :25:14.other matters which he has raised which are more a matter for the BBC,

:25:15. > :25:19.and I'm sure he will wish to continue to discuss those with him.

:25:20. > :25:23.-- spend network television budget roughly in line with the population

:25:24. > :25:27.of each nation. Some came to the chamber with a certain amount of

:25:28. > :25:31.concern about is who on independence and the particular qualities of the

:25:32. > :25:36.BBC, so does he not share at least a little of my sympathy for the

:25:37. > :25:43.honourable lady who pleads for the opposition, because every fox she

:25:44. > :25:46.wants to see running seems to have been shot, and the hounds are

:25:47. > :25:51.running around in some confusion?! So I wonder whether my honourable

:25:52. > :25:54.friend has any idea where all these rumours came from which caused so

:25:55. > :25:59.much alarm before this statement came.

:26:00. > :26:07.I have to say to my Right Honourable friend that he's absolutely right. I

:26:08. > :26:12.have to say I have always voted in favour of the preservation of

:26:13. > :26:16.fox-hunting and we've done a lot of fox shooting this morning. It is the

:26:17. > :26:21.case and it has always been the case that the independence of the BBC and

:26:22. > :26:25.in particular its editorial independence is something which lies

:26:26. > :26:30.at the heart and is one of the reasons why the BBC is so trusted

:26:31. > :26:34.around the world. It has always been our intention not to diminish that,

:26:35. > :26:40.but to strengthen it. I believe that the White Paper does deliver that.

:26:41. > :26:44.And I would only add that I had previously quoted the chairman of

:26:45. > :26:46.the BBC Trust in welcoming the proposals contained in the White

:26:47. > :26:50.Paper. I understand that the Director-General has put out a

:26:51. > :26:55.statement in which he says this White Paper delivers a mandate for

:26:56. > :26:59.the strong and creative BBC which the public believes in.

:27:00. > :27:05.Can I thank the Secretary of State for those aspects of the statement

:27:06. > :27:10.that will promote a common cultural identity, which is so crucial for a

:27:11. > :27:13.healthy democracy. But democracies work because they have great

:27:14. > :27:20.organisations which are powerful in their own right and are not directly

:27:21. > :27:24.accountable to the Government. Of his near 70-paragraph statement,

:27:25. > :27:28.only one was given over to the governance of the board. Might he

:27:29. > :27:34.confirm what I thought he said in his original statement and in an

:27:35. > :27:38.answer earlier, that if the board wishes to go for eight numbers, the

:27:39. > :27:42.Government's membership will only be four and the commission on public

:27:43. > :27:48.appointments will actually steer those appointments.

:27:49. > :27:53.No, that is not quite correct. There will be six members of the board,

:27:54. > :27:57.that is the chairman, the deputy chairman and the four non-executive

:27:58. > :28:02.directors, speaking each for the nations of the UK, who will be

:28:03. > :28:05.Government-appointed, using the public appointments process. The

:28:06. > :28:13.size of the board will be for the BBC to decide.

:28:14. > :28:16.Our proposals match those recommendations. It was suggested

:28:17. > :28:22.that the board could be between 12-14 and that it should be for the

:28:23. > :28:28.BBC to decide. So it will be for the BBC to determine the number of

:28:29. > :28:32.additional non-executive directors and the split between executive

:28:33. > :28:36.directors and any on the board which would then compromise a total board

:28:37. > :28:46.membership of between 12-14. Thank you, Mr Speaker. If I may, on

:28:47. > :28:50.behalf of my constituents in Herefordshire, correct my colleague

:28:51. > :28:54.from the Scottish National Party on my party and congratulation the

:28:55. > :28:58.Secretary of State on this White Paper, we will scrutinise the

:28:59. > :29:06.details from the sport and media committee. I welcome its recognition

:29:07. > :29:10.of the BBC's important achievements, public ethos and broadcaster. I

:29:11. > :29:14.welcome the fact that the White Paper has incorporated

:29:15. > :29:18.recommendations we made on the unitary board, the 11-year charter

:29:19. > :29:22.and the NAO. However, we did identify issues about the culture of

:29:23. > :29:29.the BBC and, I don't know if the Secretary of State saw the article

:29:30. > :29:32.by lenry Henry about black and ethnic representation on which the

:29:33. > :29:36.BBC has been weak. I have welcomed what he said. Could he talk more

:29:37. > :29:42.about how that will be enforced and whether there might be a duty on

:29:43. > :29:49.offcome to keep an eye on those -- Ofcom to keep an eye on those

:29:50. > :29:53.aspects of the charter? I am grateful to him for his welcome of

:29:54. > :29:57.our proposals. It is right that we did look carefully at the

:29:58. > :30:00.recommendations in the report, which he produced, the Select Committee

:30:01. > :30:05.produced under his chairmanmanship, as we did examine the proposals

:30:06. > :30:08.contained in the report produced by the previous chairman of the Select

:30:09. > :30:14.Committee, both were highly influential. In terms of the

:30:15. > :30:17.specific point he raises about diversity, as I made clear this is

:30:18. > :30:21.something which the Government believes should be a central

:30:22. > :30:26.priority of the BBC, that is why for the first time we are enshrining it

:30:27. > :30:30.in the public purposes. Precisely how the BBC goes about delivering

:30:31. > :30:36.that is a matter for the BBC. Because it is now within the public

:30:37. > :30:39.purposes, it will be for an external regulator, Ofcom, to determine

:30:40. > :30:47.whether or not the BBC is delivering that purpose.

:30:48. > :30:50.Mr Speaker, I am sorry to say to the Secretary of State, but the British

:30:51. > :30:55.people will not be fooled by his words today. There might be some

:30:56. > :30:59.fantasy foxes being shot this morning, but the fact is by sounding

:31:00. > :31:03.like a budget when this is being crawled over and we look at the

:31:04. > :31:10.detail, I believe this is going to be a deep, dark day for the BBC and

:31:11. > :31:14.the British public... OK, those who seem to have been joined by hating

:31:15. > :31:22.Europe and hating the BBC - the fact of the matter is this is going to be

:31:23. > :31:26.a champagne night for Rupert Murdoch and the BBC is better than that and

:31:27. > :31:32.it is owned by the British people, not this Government.

:31:33. > :31:36.I have to say Mr Speaker that was utterly desperate. Because he cannot

:31:37. > :31:39.find anything in the statement he disagrees with, the honourable

:31:40. > :31:42.gentleman thinks there must be something hidden away which he can

:31:43. > :31:47.object to. I can only say to him that the detail of the white pap ser

:31:48. > :31:51.very well known to the Director-General and the chairman of

:31:52. > :31:54.the BBC Trust, both of whom said this is an excellent White Paper,

:31:55. > :31:59.which will help ensure the BBC continues to thrive into the future.

:32:00. > :32:07.Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, the BBC have struggled with

:32:08. > :32:12.diversity on screen and off screen for too long. I absolutely welcome

:32:13. > :32:16.the enshrinement of diversity into the charter. It is the right and

:32:17. > :32:20.wise thing to do. Does the Secretary of State agree with me that

:32:21. > :32:25.attracting the brightest and most diverse talent will actually improve

:32:26. > :32:29.the content of the BBC's offering and also ultimately the ratings?

:32:30. > :32:32.I do very much agree with my honourable friend. She is right to

:32:33. > :32:37.highlight this. This is a matter which a number of

:32:38. > :32:40.people have been pressing, not least my honourable friend, the minister

:32:41. > :32:44.who is sitting besides me and the member for Tottenham, who I am

:32:45. > :32:48.pleased to see in his place. I would like to thank lenry Henry, who has

:32:49. > :32:52.been to talk to us on a number of occasions about this. I do agree

:32:53. > :32:55.with the honourable lady because the research we have conducted showed

:32:56. > :33:00.whilst appreciation of the BBC is high throughout the country, there

:33:01. > :33:05.is a feeling, particularly amongst some black and Asian minority,

:33:06. > :33:10.ethnic audiences that they are being underserved. It is that which we are

:33:11. > :33:16.keen to address, both in terms of the diverse range of talent behind

:33:17. > :33:20.the camera and in the production process, also those who appear on

:33:21. > :33:25.screen and particularly in ensuring those who choose to watch the BBC

:33:26. > :33:28.find from every section of our community that there programming

:33:29. > :33:37.there that they want to see. Thank you. By the deed shall we know

:33:38. > :33:42.them. In 2010 and 2015, the Tory Government raided the BBC budget in

:33:43. > :33:45.order to pay for Government expenditure.

:33:46. > :33:49.Will the Secretary of State now accept that was wrong? And will he

:33:50. > :33:53.give an assurance that it will not happen again during this charter

:33:54. > :33:58.renewal period? His commitment to the BBC and its independence will be

:33:59. > :34:03.judged by this answer, not by warm words.

:34:04. > :34:07.I would say to the honourable gentleman, first of all, raiding the

:34:08. > :34:14.BBC licence fee to pay for Government projects is something his

:34:15. > :34:19.Government initiated with the ang log switchover budget. I have made

:34:20. > :34:24.plain to him and I said, that the funding settlement we agreed with

:34:25. > :34:28.the BBC last year represents a broadly flat-cash settlement, once

:34:29. > :34:32.one takes into account we have agreed the licence fee should start

:34:33. > :34:38.to rise again after a freeze and we will close the iPlayer loophole and

:34:39. > :34:41.do away with the top sliess s for broadband and local television. I

:34:42. > :34:45.made it explicit that the licence fee settlement is for five years.

:34:46. > :34:49.The Government has no intention of revisiting that until the next

:34:50. > :34:54.settlement, which will be part of a new, independent and transparent

:34:55. > :35:00.process, in which we discuss the needs of the BBC with them.

:35:01. > :35:06.15 years ago n the Public Accounts Committee we started a campaign to

:35:07. > :35:11.get the BBC's accounts and spending accountable to the general - it is

:35:12. > :35:15.like pulling steel teeth from concrete. They were allowed to

:35:16. > :35:20.investigate the matters the BBC choose. Can I make a thing clear, I

:35:21. > :35:26.no ethe control general, there's no chance whatsoever of him getting

:35:27. > :35:31.involved in editorial policy. He's utterly independent and if you spend

:35:32. > :35:34.over 4 billion of public money you should be held accountable for that

:35:35. > :35:38.spending. I absolutely agree with my

:35:39. > :35:41.honourable friend. I remember his campaign when he was chairing the

:35:42. > :35:44.Public Accounts Committee. I think several previous chairman and every

:35:45. > :35:49.chairman since has been pressing this case. There's no question that

:35:50. > :35:53.if National Audit Office is effective in ensuring the taxpayer

:35:54. > :35:59.and in this case the licence fee payer extracts maximum value for

:36:00. > :36:03.money. I spoke to him yesterday and he reiterated what my honourable

:36:04. > :36:06.friend said. He has no interests to get involved in independent

:36:07. > :36:10.editorial decisions. His soul concern is to make sure that the

:36:11. > :36:16.public get maximum value from the money which they put into the BBC.

:36:17. > :36:23.Mr Speaker, I also welcome the development of the BBC's new

:36:24. > :36:26.diversity strategy and that it will be enshrined in the new charteder.

:36:27. > :36:31.How will it relate to the representation of sick and disabled

:36:32. > :36:38.people, including on the BBC's trust board, within its workforce and that

:36:39. > :36:41.of its contractors? I understand the honourable lady's

:36:42. > :36:45.concern. She will accept that a lot of these matters are for the BBC. It

:36:46. > :36:51.is not for the Government to lay down, particularly in terms of how

:36:52. > :36:55.the BBC goes about serving all the different audiences, which make up

:36:56. > :36:58.the UK. In terms of the board membership, obviously there'll be

:36:59. > :37:02.opportunities for non-executive directors to be chosen, both under

:37:03. > :37:07.the public appointments process by the Government I have set out and by

:37:08. > :37:14.the BBC board. I am sure they will want to appoint the best possible

:37:15. > :37:20.people to represent every section of the community on the BBC Board.

:37:21. > :37:28.Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I welcome the restatement of the financial

:37:29. > :37:33.protection for the BBC World Service? Can I welcome the

:37:34. > :37:36.recommendation that the new yuntry board should consider the weakness

:37:37. > :37:40.of BBC World News on television and how fast does he expect the board to

:37:41. > :37:45.come forward with proposals to address that situation?

:37:46. > :37:51.I think my honourable friend is right. The BBC World Service is

:37:52. > :37:55.admired across the world and does a fantastic job projecting the values

:37:56. > :38:03.that this country believes in around the globe. BBC global news is a

:38:04. > :38:10.different beast. It is a separate commercial subsidiary of the BBC,

:38:11. > :38:13.which actually loses money and I think is perhaps not achieving the

:38:14. > :38:18.same success that the World Service has. We have said that the BBC needs

:38:19. > :38:23.to look at that very carefully, with a view either to making it perform

:38:24. > :38:27.much better or considering, or examining different ways of

:38:28. > :38:32.achieving the objective. I am relieved the Secretary of State

:38:33. > :38:35.has resisted the temptation to be the BBC fat controller, but to

:38:36. > :38:40.demonstrate that he will keep his hands off all the levers. Can he

:38:41. > :38:44.confirm there'll be clear and transparent processes for appointing

:38:45. > :38:48.the board, setting the licence fee, ensuring the public's voice is heard

:38:49. > :38:52.for Parliament to approve the charter, and finally, that the BBC

:38:53. > :38:57.health check he referred to will be just that and could not be the

:38:58. > :39:03.precursor to a major operation? I think I can confirm everything

:39:04. > :39:07.that the honourable gentleman gentleman has asked me about.

:39:08. > :39:10.I can tell him, in terms of the mid-term review, it is a health

:39:11. > :39:16.check. We do not have any intention or wish to revisit the charter and

:39:17. > :39:19.agreement, unless it appears something has gone badly wrong and

:39:20. > :39:23.wed need to make amendment. The world is changing very fast. We

:39:24. > :39:28.don't know what the media landscape will look like in five years' time.

:39:29. > :39:32.That is the reason for having the health check. It is not our

:39:33. > :39:37.intention that it should represent any mini-Charter Review. In terms of

:39:38. > :39:42.the future appointments, I have said that those that will be made by the

:39:43. > :39:47.Government will be through the public appointments process. There

:39:48. > :39:50.will be involvement by the office of appointments and the panel which

:39:51. > :39:53.will assess the suitability of those who apply for those positions and in

:39:54. > :39:59.terms of setting the future licence fee we have said it will be a

:40:00. > :40:03.process which is more independent and transparent and where there'll

:40:04. > :40:08.be a proper opportunity for the BBC and the Government to discuss the

:40:09. > :40:13.funding needs. And finally, in terms of the public opinion, there'll be a

:40:14. > :40:17.clear expectation on the board to put in place mechanisms, whereby

:40:18. > :40:21.they take account of the views of the public, in all aspects of the

:40:22. > :40:31.BBC's operations. Can I congratulate him for listening

:40:32. > :40:36.to the voices of sanity in this debate and this morning being one of

:40:37. > :40:40.the voices of sanity in this debate. He has achieved a system of outside

:40:41. > :40:43.regulation that holds the BBC properly to account without in any

:40:44. > :40:48.way damaging its vital role at the heart of the cultural life of this

:40:49. > :40:52.country. Can he confirm that the National audit office will only be

:40:53. > :40:57.auditing the publicly funded part of the BBC and not its Private

:40:58. > :41:02.commercial operations, as that would be an unprecedented extension of the

:41:03. > :41:07.NA oh into the private sector? I'm grateful to my right honourable

:41:08. > :41:11.friend for his comments, he has a long knowledge and interest in the

:41:12. > :41:15.BBC and therefore I'm very pleased that he agrees that the proposals

:41:16. > :41:19.contained do represent a good, strong future for the BBC. On the

:41:20. > :41:26.specific point he braces about the National Audit Office, there is

:41:27. > :41:30.agreement that they should be able to conduct value for money studies

:41:31. > :41:34.on all publicly funded aspect of the BBC operation. With regard to the

:41:35. > :41:38.commercial activities, there is a very strong interest for the licence

:41:39. > :41:43.fee payer because of course the more the BBC can raise through commercial

:41:44. > :41:49.activities unless is the call on the licence be payer. But the extent to

:41:50. > :41:53.which and how the National audit of this examines whether full value for

:41:54. > :41:56.money is obtained from BBC worldwide is something we are continuing to

:41:57. > :42:00.discuss, but I would point out that one of the greatest disasters which

:42:01. > :42:08.resulted in the loss of ?100 million of money for the BBC was the

:42:09. > :42:19.acquisition of Lonely Planet by BBC worldwide. My thanks to the

:42:20. > :42:23.Secretary of State for his answer. He says the BBC will become more

:42:24. > :42:29.accountable to the devolved nations. Could you talk more about how this

:42:30. > :42:34.will be achieved in Wales? My answer to the honourable gentleman is very

:42:35. > :42:36.similar to my answer to the honourable gentleman who speaks for

:42:37. > :42:44.the Scottish National Party, in that Wales, two, will have a member of

:42:45. > :42:46.the BBC board, one of the nonexecutive directors will have the

:42:47. > :42:51.responsibility for speaking for Wales as well as bringing of the

:42:52. > :42:58.skills, and there will be a clear service licence set out by Ofcom

:42:59. > :43:02.which will give greater detail as to how it is expected the BBC will meet

:43:03. > :43:07.its requirement to serve the needs of the people of Wales. The BBC has

:43:08. > :43:11.written today, as I said earlier, not just to the Cabinet Secretary in

:43:12. > :43:18.the Scottish Government but also to the first Minister of Wales setting

:43:19. > :43:23.out more detail about how... It will be interesting to find out who opens

:43:24. > :43:27.the and the loop! But setting out more details about how it intends to

:43:28. > :43:33.go about setting out that task and I would be happy to supply him with a

:43:34. > :43:37.copy if he has not seen it already. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My father

:43:38. > :43:43.spent his whole life working in a ministerial capacity for the BBC so

:43:44. > :43:49.I have an natural and filial affection for that institution, and

:43:50. > :43:57.I'm delighted my right honourable friend has ensured the BBC will

:43:58. > :44:03.remain robustly financed and retain its integrity to build on its past

:44:04. > :44:06.strengths, but I hope also he is strongly addressing its weaknesses

:44:07. > :44:10.through his measures to deal with its lack of impartiality and

:44:11. > :44:13.diversity. I hope you will recall the words of a former Labour

:44:14. > :44:21.appointed director-general who said, such was the modular tea of view,

:44:22. > :44:25.the Guardian reading views of those running the BBC, that it had failed

:44:26. > :44:30.to give proper representation to public concerns about Europe,

:44:31. > :44:35.immigration and, I would add, and environmental policies. I speak as

:44:36. > :44:39.one who is banned by the BBC from broadcasting following me having

:44:40. > :44:44.pointed out that Met office forecasts ten years ago proved

:44:45. > :44:52.incorrect. This troupe also inconvenienced the BBC has removed

:44:53. > :44:56.the podcast for the apology for broadcasting my views on its website

:44:57. > :45:01.and made it clear I would not be interviewed in future. I can look

:45:02. > :45:06.after myself but can he make sure the BBC, in encouraging diversity,

:45:07. > :45:10.encourages the inclusion of view is that the greatest oppressed minority

:45:11. > :45:14.in this country, those of Conservatives? He is clearly

:45:15. > :45:21.saddened that his filial affection has not been reciprocated.

:45:22. > :45:24.I'm concerned to learn the extremely persuasive arguments which are

:45:25. > :45:27.always advanced by my right honourable friend are not being

:45:28. > :45:32.aired on the BBC. That is a matter for the BBC but I hope they will

:45:33. > :45:36.reconsider that. I would say to him that, under our new public purposes,

:45:37. > :45:42.we have rephrased the public purpose is to make it clear the expectation

:45:43. > :45:45.and the first public purpose now is to provide in partial news and

:45:46. > :45:50.information to help people understand and engage with the world

:45:51. > :45:53.around them, and it is the first time that impartiality and

:45:54. > :45:58.diversity, indeed, have been put up front at the top of the public

:45:59. > :46:01.purposes, and of course under our proposals it will now be for an

:46:02. > :46:05.independent external regulator to determine any complaints on those

:46:06. > :46:15.grounds in the form of Ofcom, whereas until now it was the BBC.

:46:16. > :46:20.Can I, too, welcomed the Secretary of State's historic decision to make

:46:21. > :46:22.diversity of public purpose Kers I congratulate him for that, it is

:46:23. > :46:28.something I felt the Labour Government should have done when we

:46:29. > :46:31.were in power. The truth is, at that time, there were very important

:46:32. > :46:35.decisions that we made, quite rightly, to extend the BBC's scope

:46:36. > :46:40.to fully gripped the nation 's and I think the move to Salford has been

:46:41. > :46:46.part of that. But does he agree that diversity will need funding, and I

:46:47. > :46:50.would hope the BBC allocates the appropriate funds to ensure that

:46:51. > :46:58.both of screen and on-screen diversity is delivered. I is hugely

:46:59. > :47:03.appreciate the remarks of the honourable gentleman. He has an

:47:04. > :47:06.extremely strong track record of campaigning in this area, and for

:47:07. > :47:10.him to welcome our proposals in the way that he has is extremely

:47:11. > :47:15.encouraging. I agree with him, there is a lot more work to do. It will be

:47:16. > :47:19.for the BBC to decide in terms of the allocation of budget and how

:47:20. > :47:22.they go about delivering on the new explicit requirement that is set

:47:23. > :47:31.out, that is something I'm sure he will continue to talk to the BBC

:47:32. > :47:35.about, as will we. The point about diversity, which I support, should

:47:36. > :47:39.be targeted at getting inclusiveness so that people are drawn together.

:47:40. > :47:45.Can I say to my right honourable friend that on page 78 he mentions

:47:46. > :47:49.digital radio. If you would like to come by bus or road down from London

:47:50. > :47:53.to Worthing and along the coast, you would find an enormous gaps. Can we

:47:54. > :47:59.make sure we do not exclude those who listen to radio on the move?

:48:00. > :48:03.Three detailed point about wording. On page 98, he refers to the

:48:04. > :48:06.Government saying it is clear the licence fee is eight tax. At some

:48:07. > :48:11.stage I would like to hear an explanation for why it is seen as a

:48:12. > :48:15.tax rather than a fee separate from taxation. He talks about the

:48:16. > :48:22.popularity of subscription services. It is incident of subscription

:48:23. > :48:29.services, not popularity. Most people do not like paying but feel

:48:30. > :48:33.they have do. And the last entry is for a WOCC, would he like to explain

:48:34. > :48:39.what a window of competitive whatever it is means? On the issue

:48:40. > :48:43.around vigil audio broadcasting, I fully recognise that there is still

:48:44. > :48:49.some way to go to achieve the coverage necessary -- Digital audio

:48:50. > :48:53.broadcasting, before we could consider switching off analogue, and

:48:54. > :48:58.the ability to listen to DAV on the move in cars is one of the crucial

:48:59. > :49:02.factors which will influence our decision, on which there is still

:49:03. > :49:06.more work to be done, but we expect the BBC will continue to take a

:49:07. > :49:10.leading role. In terms of the specific questions he asked, it has

:49:11. > :49:15.long been recognised that the licence fee is essentially a tax

:49:16. > :49:20.because it is imposed by Government, enforced by criminal sanction, and

:49:21. > :49:24.is compulsory, and it is recognised I think by the office of budget

:49:25. > :49:29.responsibility and others as being a tax on that basis. On the specific

:49:30. > :49:35.question he asked about what is known colloquially as the WOCC, it

:49:36. > :49:42.is the window of creative competition which the BBC put in

:49:43. > :49:46.place so that it goes beyond the existing arrangements, a 25%

:49:47. > :49:52.independent production quota, Ben there is another chunk of content

:49:53. > :49:55.comprising 25%, which is the WOCC, which can be completed for by the

:49:56. > :50:01.independent production sector, then there is 50% which is reserved for

:50:02. > :50:06.the BBC's in-house production. It is that 80% we are removing, so in

:50:07. > :50:16.essence our proposals are to increase the WOCC to 75%. I was very

:50:17. > :50:23.pleased to note particular mention of S4C, channels which support

:50:24. > :50:27.unique cultures and languages in the British Isles, but I notice his

:50:28. > :50:30.statement only referred to maintaining production quotas

:50:31. > :50:33.outside London, which is disappointing for us in Scotland

:50:34. > :50:37.because we were hoping those production quotas would be increased

:50:38. > :50:41.outside London. Can he give assurance that he supports further

:50:42. > :50:47.decentralisation and the improvement of commissioning opportunities for

:50:48. > :50:54.the regions and countries of the UK? The quotas are of course a minimum

:50:55. > :51:01.requirement. It is for the BBC to do its best to exceed those. As I said,

:51:02. > :51:07.I referred to the honourable lady's colleague about the letter which the

:51:08. > :51:10.director general has sent today to the Cabinet Secretary for culture in

:51:11. > :51:17.the Scottish Government in which he does make a commitment that they

:51:18. > :51:20.will continue to increase, do their best to increase the proportion of

:51:21. > :51:26.BBC network production expenditure in each of the nations of the UK,

:51:27. > :51:32.and he says, we recognise that this needs to work harder and that he

:51:33. > :51:39.will be doing his best to ensure that Scotland at least receives a

:51:40. > :51:43.proportion in comparison to the population that it represents the

:51:44. > :51:51.UK, but I'm sure that is something she and her colleagues can proceed

:51:52. > :51:55.further with the director-general. As a former employee of the BBC

:51:56. > :51:59.myself, I share a great affection for the corporation and as such I

:52:00. > :52:02.congratulate the Secretary of State for this white paper which I broadly

:52:03. > :52:10.welcomed. But would he agree with me that with the BBC's income from the

:52:11. > :52:13.public, now guaranteed to be fast approaching ?4 billion per year,

:52:14. > :52:17.that not only is it right that the corporation be more transparent and

:52:18. > :52:22.accountable but also that there is no reason for it to make cuts to

:52:23. > :52:26.front line services, and I say especially not to BBC local radio,

:52:27. > :52:31.where I worked for so many years, which is a hugely valued part of the

:52:32. > :52:36.community, especially BBC Radio Kent and in my constituency. I very much

:52:37. > :52:44.agree with my honourable friend -- BBC Radio Kent Devon. There is

:52:45. > :52:48.certainty about funding over the course of the next licence fee

:52:49. > :52:53.period. I hope it will continue to recognise the importance of local

:52:54. > :52:56.radio, and matter raised by a number of honourable members yesterday in

:52:57. > :53:00.discussion on the subject and I make clear I regard local radio as one of

:53:01. > :53:04.the things which best exemplifies the public service we met which the

:53:05. > :53:09.BBC has, and I agree with him and hope the National audit office will

:53:10. > :53:15.bear out that there is scope for achieving efficiencies so that even

:53:16. > :53:22.more of the licence fee payers money can be devoted to front line

:53:23. > :53:26.services like local radio. Many of my constituents work in the

:53:27. > :53:29.television sector and have responded to the consultation, so we'll

:53:30. > :53:34.welcome today's statement, many aspects of it, certainly. With my

:53:35. > :53:41.right honourable friend from Tottenham I went come the specific

:53:42. > :53:46.mention of black and ethnic minority representation but diversity in

:53:47. > :53:51.front of and behind the camera also encompasses gender, sexual

:53:52. > :53:55.orientation, disability, faith, and social class. Will we see a

:53:56. > :54:01.statement due course about what that means in the context of today's

:54:02. > :54:07.statement? I agree with the honourable lady in stressing the

:54:08. > :54:18.importance of diversity in all of the -- in all but the BBC does, it

:54:19. > :54:23.is not just about serving BAME audiences but of gender equality,

:54:24. > :54:27.disabled people. It is for the BBC to draw up their own plans and

:54:28. > :54:31.deliver that general public purpose that we have set out. But obviously

:54:32. > :54:36.they will also be held to account in the manner that they do so by Ofcom,

:54:37. > :54:47.but it is not for us to tell the BBC precisely how they should deliver.

:54:48. > :54:50.Thank you, Mr Speaker. In my constituency there are six local

:54:51. > :54:54.newspapers which are vital in providing news to the local

:54:55. > :54:57.community. But we all know the pressures that local newspapers face

:54:58. > :55:01.across the country, particularly as more and more of us get our news

:55:02. > :55:08.online. How will the new charter helps to ensure that the BBC's very

:55:09. > :55:10.successful website does not have the unintended consequence of driving

:55:11. > :55:16.people away from local newspapers and their websites? I'm grateful to

:55:17. > :55:20.my honourable friend for raising this because it is something that I

:55:21. > :55:25.agree is tremendously important. Local newspapers play a vital role

:55:26. > :55:29.in sustaining local democracy and will become more important as more

:55:30. > :55:34.powers are passed down to devolved administrations and local

:55:35. > :55:40.government. Therefore, I have sought to encourage the BBC for quite some

:55:41. > :55:43.time to, rather than undermine local newspapers, which occasionally they

:55:44. > :55:48.have been accused of doing, actually support them, and I'm delighted that

:55:49. > :55:52.an agreement has been reached, in principle, between the BBC and news

:55:53. > :55:59.media Association which represents the local press so that the BBC has

:56:00. > :56:02.now agreed to fund a reporting service to cover local authorities

:56:03. > :56:08.and public services, and that they intend to fund 150 journalists who

:56:09. > :56:15.will be imported by qualifying local news organisations, not by the BBC,

:56:16. > :56:19.so in this way the BBC will be obtaining greater content of what is

:56:20. > :56:22.going on in local authorities and, in doing so, will be supporting

:56:23. > :56:26.global newspapers which hopefully will help to ensure that they

:56:27. > :56:29.continue to provide that service. -- local newspapers.

:56:30. > :56:35.Has the Secretary of State given any thought to the thousands of students

:56:36. > :56:40.in this country who do not have televisions in their student rooms

:56:41. > :56:44.but may occasionally watch BBC iPlayer on their computers? Will the

:56:45. > :56:49.Secretary of State please give some consideration to these students?

:56:50. > :56:54.Going to university costs enough. Will he consider from exempting them

:56:55. > :56:59.from the closer of the iPlayer loophole? There is a long-standing

:57:00. > :57:03.principal that those who enjoy public service television should be

:57:04. > :57:09.required to play for it through the licence fee. And there's no question

:57:10. > :57:14.that the advent of the iPlayer and catch-up services has created a

:57:15. > :57:17.loophole, which has meant that the BBC has lost a significant and

:57:18. > :57:23.probably growing amount of revenue. It was part of the agreement that we

:57:24. > :57:28.reached with the BBC last year that we should close that loophole.

:57:29. > :57:33.Essentially apply the same rules in today's age as have always applied

:57:34. > :57:36.in the past, which is if you watch public service content you should

:57:37. > :57:42.have a licence, you should pay for the licence which funds the BBC.

:57:43. > :57:48.Mr Speaker, the statement is welcome. It confirms that the BBC

:57:49. > :57:53.does a very good job overall. What is the Government doing to ensure

:57:54. > :57:58.fairness in its coverage of the EU referendum campaign, especially

:57:59. > :58:04.since the BBC receives large amounts of EU funding, amounting to tens of

:58:05. > :58:10.millions of pounds in recent years? Well, I would say to my honourable

:58:11. > :58:14.friend, that as I previously set out, impartiality is something we

:58:15. > :58:22.have put as one of the first requirements in the public purposes

:58:23. > :58:25.of the BBC. Ensuring impartiality becomes challenging and hotly

:58:26. > :58:31.contested issue as our membership of the European Union, which is why I

:58:32. > :58:35.ask the BBC to ensure they have a fast-track system for resolving

:58:36. > :58:40.complaints of bias from either side of the argument. I was pleased the

:58:41. > :58:44.BBC Trust agreed that would be put in place and recognised the

:58:45. > :58:48.importance. I would say that also that requirement for impartiality

:58:49. > :58:51.does not just apply to the BBC. It applies to all those with a

:58:52. > :58:57.broadcasting licence who are required to be objective and

:58:58. > :59:02.impartial. And that includes the commercial broadcasters as well as

:59:03. > :59:05.the BBC. Mr Speaker, my constituents are very

:59:06. > :59:10.concerned about the independence of the BBC. As the Secretary of State

:59:11. > :59:14.has quoted comments by the Director-General this morning, could

:59:15. > :59:19.I ask him what he thinks of this comment from the Director-General,

:59:20. > :59:24."I do not believe the aprointmentes proposals for the new unitary board

:59:25. > :59:29.are not right." What does he mean by that? It is an issue which we will

:59:30. > :59:34.continue to discuss with the BBC. However, I would simply say to the

:59:35. > :59:39.Director-General and to everyone else that the proposals that we have

:59:40. > :59:46.put in place are those which were recommended. They do allow the BBC

:59:47. > :59:52.to appoint at least half of the membership of the BBC Board and we

:59:53. > :59:58.have ensured the Director-General's editorial independence is enshrined

:59:59. > :00:04.in the charter. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On commercial

:00:05. > :00:08.radio I welcome the need for distinctiveness. There is a concern

:00:09. > :00:14.some BBC stations are mimicking the commercial sector. So, combined with

:00:15. > :00:18.the removal of the 50% guarantee on in-house production, those two facts

:00:19. > :00:22.will not only enhance the BBC but allow the commercial radio to

:00:23. > :00:26.flourish alongside it, making room for both.

:00:27. > :00:32.I am aware of the concerns expressed by commercial radio about some

:00:33. > :00:36.aspects of BBC Radio provision. Certainly the requirement that there

:00:37. > :00:41.should be distinctiveness in BBC services applies to radio as it does

:00:42. > :00:45.to television and in future, rather if commercial radio has complaints,

:00:46. > :00:50.they will of course be able to voice them to Ofcom as the independent

:00:51. > :00:55.regulator. In terms of the opening up of content for independence

:00:56. > :01:01.production, the 100% ambition that we have set the BBC applies to

:01:02. > :01:07.television. For radio, the BBC have agreed that they will aim to reach

:01:08. > :01:11.60%. That would represent a huge increase on the present level. I

:01:12. > :01:18.think would provide sufficient opportunities to the radio

:01:19. > :01:22.independent sector. Mr Speaker, will the Secretary of

:01:23. > :01:27.State join with me in welcoming the announcement today by the BBC of

:01:28. > :01:31.substantial additional investment in production and commissioning in

:01:32. > :01:35.Birmingham, following the campaign of Birmingham's MPs, the city

:01:36. > :01:40.council and the Birmingham Post and Mail? Does the Secretary of State

:01:41. > :01:46.understand the residual strong concern felt across this House that

:01:47. > :01:52.the "Jewel in the Crown" of public service broadcasting excellence,

:01:53. > :01:57.which is the BBC Worldwide its independence and integrity should

:01:58. > :02:02.never be violated by any Government? Well, obviously I welcome the BBC's

:02:03. > :02:06.announcement of additional investment in Birmingham and frinss

:02:07. > :02:11.the local newspaper initiative. That will be based at BBC Birmingham. I

:02:12. > :02:14.am aware that members representing West Midlands constituencies have

:02:15. > :02:18.pressed the BBC to do more. It is a matter for the BBC. I welcome the

:02:19. > :02:24.fact that the BBC are responding. On the second point he makes, I

:02:25. > :02:27.completely agree with him. The integrity and the impartiality of

:02:28. > :02:30.the BBC is essential. It is the reason why the BBC is respected

:02:31. > :02:32.around the world and it is something which we are determined to preserve

:02:33. > :02:44.and if anything strengthen. On line some of the BBC's contents,

:02:45. > :02:49.such as football match reports and many other things can't always be to

:02:50. > :02:54.my mind found to be distinctive. Can he reassure the House this

:02:55. > :02:59.distinctiveness test will absolutely apply on-line as well as on

:03:00. > :03:05.television and on radio? I can give my honourable friend that

:03:06. > :03:12.assurance. The BBC, I think it rightly Irishes to make available

:03:13. > :03:18.its -- rightly wishes to make available its content on whichever

:03:19. > :03:24.platform viewers which to access it, and that includes on-line. There are

:03:25. > :03:27.concerns sometimes that the on-line services have gone into soft news

:03:28. > :03:33.and beyond and that represents unfair competition. It will be the

:03:34. > :03:36.case that the requirement for distinction will apply on-line, just

:03:37. > :03:42.as it does to all other BBC services and that is something which can be

:03:43. > :03:46.adjudicated by Ofcom. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like

:03:47. > :03:50.to press the Secretary of State on some of the detail of the statement

:03:51. > :03:57.he's given today, especially given the concern many of us have to

:03:58. > :04:06.protect all members of BBC staff from politically motivated attacks

:04:07. > :04:11.in their work. He said that editorial would be pretransmission.

:04:12. > :04:15.Can he clarify to whom the Government appointees on that board

:04:16. > :04:20.will be accountable to - to the Government or to the licence fee

:04:21. > :04:24.payers? Well, the position for the

:04:25. > :04:29.Government appointees and that will be by public appointment process

:04:30. > :04:34.will be no different to the one that have the responsibility that the BBC

:04:35. > :04:38.Trust has in terms of reporting. They are, once appointed, they are

:04:39. > :04:43.independent, they are not subject to any instruction by the Government.

:04:44. > :04:48.And they will be accountable to the licence fee payer and to Parliament,

:04:49. > :04:52.of course. That is where Select Committees have a very important

:04:53. > :04:56.role. I would just say to the honourable lady, I agree about the

:04:57. > :04:59.importance of not having any political pressure put on BBC

:05:00. > :05:05.employees, whatever their level. So, I hope she will join me in

:05:06. > :05:11.condemning the petition which has 15,000 signatures, which was

:05:12. > :05:14.initiated by the jeer ra Jeremy for PM campaign calling for the sacking

:05:15. > :05:19.of the editorial editor because they didn't like one of the stories she

:05:20. > :05:25.reported. I welcome the financial certainty

:05:26. > :05:30.that is set out in this White Paper and the editorial has some measures.

:05:31. > :05:34.I welcome the possibility of real economic benefits in Norwich, home

:05:35. > :05:37.to a growing creative sector, through increased purr chassing of

:05:38. > :05:41.independent content. Can the Secretary of State give an estimate

:05:42. > :05:47.to the numbers of jobs which may be linked to this measure? I cannot.

:05:48. > :05:52.First of all I say to my honourable friend, I imagine her city is not

:05:53. > :05:55.particularly happy today and I send my condolences on another front for

:05:56. > :06:00.which I am responsible, which is obviously sport. However, in terms

:06:01. > :06:03.of the potential job of opportunities by opening up

:06:04. > :06:08.competition, there's no question. I cannot give her a precise figure. We

:06:09. > :06:12.believe by allowing the independent production sector the ability to

:06:13. > :06:16.compete for 100% of the BBC's content it will mean hundreds of

:06:17. > :06:19.millions are available for the production sector, should they win

:06:20. > :06:23.those commissions. And that obviously will create jobs alongside

:06:24. > :06:28.it. And the creative industries, as I said earlier, have proved to be

:06:29. > :06:32.one of our most secretary success sectors with the fastest rate of job

:06:33. > :06:38.creation. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Given how

:06:39. > :06:41.from listen to mother, to Rasta mouth, children's programming has

:06:42. > :06:47.been so important to the reputation of the BBC and its ideal to educate,

:06:48. > :06:51.can the Secretary of State commit here to exempt this sector of

:06:52. > :06:57.programming from any possible charges for iPlayer or on-demand

:06:58. > :07:03.services? What I said earlier, none of the

:07:04. > :07:06.BBC's existing services will be made subject to voluntary subscription

:07:07. > :07:11.through the iPlayer. The pilot that the BBC is looking at will be for

:07:12. > :07:17.additional services which are not currently provided and funded by the

:07:18. > :07:22.licence fee. I would hope that the BBC will look at boosting children's

:07:23. > :07:27.promising, because I agree with her, it is fundamentally important and an

:07:28. > :07:32.area where access through the iPlayer is likely to be higher than

:07:33. > :07:39.perhaps for other secretary sections of the population. I am -- -

:07:40. > :07:45.sections of the population. The pot I referred to, we seek as a possible

:07:46. > :07:48.vehicle to give additional opportunities so children have more

:07:49. > :07:53.choice in the programming available to them.

:07:54. > :07:57.Despite what some people might say on this side of the House,

:07:58. > :08:01.particularly people who have worked at the BBC, we do want it to remain

:08:02. > :08:05.popular and distinctive and that is something I think all politicians

:08:06. > :08:10.can only hope to be, on all sides of the House. Mr Speaker, we have heard

:08:11. > :08:15.from the minister that there's no perfect model when it comes to the

:08:16. > :08:19.BBC licence fee in a changing media landscape and how we listen, watch

:08:20. > :08:25.and contribute to the ratings is changing. So, I welcome the freedom

:08:26. > :08:28.of BBC budgets and wonder if the Secretary of State can say as part

:08:29. > :08:33.of the flexible arrangements in parts of payments in the White Paper

:08:34. > :08:38.process, can we look for a fee for using only the radio content

:08:39. > :08:42.services of the BBC? Well, I am grateful do my honourable

:08:43. > :08:47.friend. She's right that there is a wealth of experience on both sides

:08:48. > :08:53.of the House, from members who have worked inside or with the BBC in the

:08:54. > :08:57.past. In terms of more flexible arrangements for payment of the

:08:58. > :09:03.licence fee, in particular we wanted to allow the BBC to assist those on

:09:04. > :09:09.low incomes by not requiring them to take a year's licence fee in the

:09:10. > :09:13.first six months. Her suggestion about having a reduced licence fee

:09:14. > :09:17.for those who only listen to radio is not something that we are

:09:18. > :09:23.intending to pursue in this licence fee period. As I said to her, I mean

:09:24. > :09:28.I think that the way in which technology is changing so rapidly

:09:29. > :09:31.will call into question the sustainability of the existing model

:09:32. > :09:34.over time and I have no doubt that there will be a significant, a

:09:35. > :09:41.substantial debate about these issues at the time of the next

:09:42. > :09:45.Charter Review. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I hope Mr

:09:46. > :09:49.Speaker, on this occasion you will feel that the question is of

:09:50. > :09:54.importance that you will feel re-emphasise. I welcome this White

:09:55. > :09:57.Paper with seems to recognise the BBC is a national treasure which

:09:58. > :10:02.marks out from other western countries. Can the Secretary of

:10:03. > :10:10.State assure the House that the welcome commitment to reinvig rate

:10:11. > :10:14.will not -- such as Breeze radio and the radio in Cheltenham which do a

:10:15. > :10:19.lot to inform and entertain my constituents?

:10:20. > :10:25.He should not apologise for raising this again because it is an

:10:26. > :10:29.important matter. When the BBC first floated the idea of supporting local

:10:30. > :10:33.news provision by employing journalists, there was some

:10:34. > :10:35.confusion and some people thought the BBC were intending to employ

:10:36. > :10:41.them directly, which I think would have posed a threat to existing

:10:42. > :10:45.commercial local news providers. I'm delighted the agreement which has

:10:46. > :10:51.now been reached makes it plain that while the BBC will fund journalism

:10:52. > :10:54.they will be employed by qualifying local news organisations, and I

:10:55. > :10:58.would imagine that the excellent examples he has given of news

:10:59. > :11:02.organisations in his own constituency would be eligible to

:11:03. > :11:12.apply for that funding, should they choose to do so. Thank you, Mr

:11:13. > :11:16.Speaker. Whilst I welcome greater diversity, specifically the other

:11:17. > :11:21.devolved nations, we must not do that at the expense of our United

:11:22. > :11:25.Kingdom. The Secretary of State mentioned that the BBC must reflect

:11:26. > :11:28.a common national identity, but there are those that don't believe

:11:29. > :11:34.in a common national British identity and, given that we might

:11:35. > :11:38.unintentionally create a wedge between particularly Scotland and

:11:39. > :11:42.England, I would urge the Secretary of State to exercise that caution

:11:43. > :11:49.with the amount of diversity that is given to the devolved nations. I

:11:50. > :11:54.agree with my honourable friend, we do think it is important that the

:11:55. > :12:00.BBC should serve all the individual nations and regions of the United

:12:01. > :12:06.Kingdom, and that is set out in the charter as one of the public

:12:07. > :12:12.purposes. However, he is right that the BBC is a UK national

:12:13. > :12:16.broadcaster, and it is their to unite the nation and to focus on all

:12:17. > :12:24.the many things we have in common which bring us together and I hope

:12:25. > :12:27.that will long remain the case. The Secretary of State will be aware

:12:28. > :12:37.that my constituency, Torbay, was made somewhat famous, perhaps the

:12:38. > :12:43.iconic BBC series Fawlty Towers and the antics of battle fought, based

:12:44. > :12:52.on a real hotel owner. But in terms of the date services that as BBC

:12:53. > :12:54.Radio Kent locally produced programmes are appreciated in

:12:55. > :12:58.Torbay. What does he see in this white paper that will boost more

:12:59. > :13:04.programmes like Fawlty Towers produced in the future? Having

:13:05. > :13:09.visited Torbay as part of the tourism inquiry which the select

:13:10. > :13:11.Committee conducted in the last Parliament, I'm delighted that

:13:12. > :13:18.whilst Fawlty Towers may have been based on a hotel at one time, Torbay

:13:19. > :13:23.hotels today bear no resemblance to Fawlty Towers! But full two Towers

:13:24. > :13:28.is an example of creative comedy which the BBC absolutely excels at.

:13:29. > :13:31.It is important that the BBC should continue to make production all

:13:32. > :13:39.across the United Kingdom, and Cornwall, of course, Poldark have

:13:40. > :13:43.been successful but I hope the south-west will continue to benefit

:13:44. > :13:52.from investment in production which, as we've said earlier, drives growth

:13:53. > :13:55.and create a large number of jobs. I welcome the white paper and

:13:56. > :13:58.congratulate the Secretary of State, very much what I had in mind when I

:13:59. > :14:03.filled in the consultation exercise. Can I ask for more details with

:14:04. > :14:08.respect to the health check? On page 58, matters that can be changed our

:14:09. > :14:12.future funding issues, including emotional activities. What cannot be

:14:13. > :14:17.changed is the fundamental mission purposes and licence fee model. Can

:14:18. > :14:19.I ask if there will be an opportunity for Parliament to

:14:20. > :14:23.scrutinise further the exact language, I believe the devil will

:14:24. > :14:26.be in the detail and unconscious this clause will have great

:14:27. > :14:34.important in the unlikely event the Government will be -- Government

:14:35. > :14:38.will be elected in 2020 which is not as supportive of the BBC as this

:14:39. > :14:43.Government today. We have sought to reassure the BBC there is no

:14:44. > :14:46.intention of reopening some fundamental decisions taken which

:14:47. > :14:51.will appear in the next charter. It is a health check, an opportunity to

:14:52. > :14:55.ensure that the reforms we are putting in place are working as

:14:56. > :14:59.intended and also that the BBC is taking account of any changes that

:15:00. > :15:02.have happened over the period, and, as I said earlier, this is an area

:15:03. > :15:08.where technology is changing very fast. We cannot bind another

:15:09. > :15:14.Government, however we are trying to ensure that the charter is fit for

:15:15. > :15:20.purpose for the next ten years, and certainly this Government has no

:15:21. > :15:22.intention, having now set out our proposal in the charter, of

:15:23. > :15:33.revisiting those fundamental principles on tour the next one.

:15:34. > :15:35.Given the scale of the gap between the sometimes ridiculous

:15:36. > :15:44.scaremongering of the left and the luvvies and the sheer common sense

:15:45. > :15:47.in the white paper... Can I ask the Secretary of State if he has

:15:48. > :15:51.received an apology or an iota of support from some of those luvvies

:15:52. > :15:56.who have been somewhat unkind to him recently? I'm grateful to my

:15:57. > :16:02.honourable friend for the support. I'm not going to hold my breath!

:16:03. > :16:05.However, to give them their due, they will only have discovered what

:16:06. > :16:10.the Government intended this morning, having previously relied

:16:11. > :16:17.upon hysterical reports in the media. But now that they have seen

:16:18. > :16:20.what the Government is setting out does not threaten the BBC but will

:16:21. > :16:24.strengthen it and ensure it continues to thrive, I hope they

:16:25. > :16:33.will express welcome for our proposals. As my right honourable

:16:34. > :16:39.friend has said earlier on in answer to questions, I think BBC local

:16:40. > :16:42.radio comes to the closest of the corporation's remade as a public

:16:43. > :16:48.service broadcaster, therefore I very much welcome the publication in

:16:49. > :16:54.the future of significant talent salaries because I dare say that

:16:55. > :16:59.several of those could pay for a county station, an excellent one

:17:00. > :17:05.like BBC Sussex. He is absolutely right in that there is a huge gulf

:17:06. > :17:11.between expenditure on BBC local radio, which I know from my own

:17:12. > :17:15.county in Essex, sometimes the paint is peeling on the walls and they can

:17:16. > :17:19.barely afford a coffee maker, then you look at some of the

:17:20. > :17:22.extraordinary amounts paid to certain individuals, and whilst they

:17:23. > :17:26.may be extremely talented it is one of the reasons why the Government

:17:27. > :17:29.felt it right that those entering substantial remuneration packages

:17:30. > :17:36.for the BBC, the public has a right to know who they are. I was

:17:37. > :17:41.interested to hear what the Secretary of State had to say around

:17:42. > :17:44.diversifying the BBC's revenue streams, particularly around

:17:45. > :17:47.providing new services and reaching viewers outside of this country.

:17:48. > :17:53.When will we expect to hear more on that? He's right to draw attention

:17:54. > :17:59.to this, because at the moment he will be aware that if you go

:18:00. > :18:06.overseas it is not legally possible to access BBC content through the

:18:07. > :18:10.iPlayer. We have two object is in changing that. Firstly we believe

:18:11. > :18:14.strongly that UK citizens who have already paid the licence fee should

:18:15. > :18:20.be able to enjoy content even if they happen to be on holiday on the

:18:21. > :18:22.continent of Europe, and that is the portability requirement which we are

:18:23. > :18:28.looking to the BBC to put in place, as indeed we will ask other

:18:29. > :18:34.broadcasters to do. But in terms of those who have not paid the licence

:18:35. > :18:40.fee, there is a substantial amount of piracy going on, whereby people

:18:41. > :18:45.use Virtual Private networks or get around the geo- blog in order to

:18:46. > :18:49.access BBC content, demonstrating there is a demand therefore it.

:18:50. > :18:53.Rather than adopt illegal methods, we are keen to encourage the BBC to

:18:54. > :19:04.make available that content legally and ask them to pay for it. Can I

:19:05. > :19:08.welcome my right honourable friend's strong support for the World

:19:09. > :19:13.Service, whose impartial and objective news is needed now more

:19:14. > :19:18.than ever. Is he confident that the World Service is sufficiently

:19:19. > :19:24.embracing new platforms for broadcasting around the world? That

:19:25. > :19:28.is very much a matter for the BBC, but I absolutely agree with my

:19:29. > :19:33.honourable friend that the world Service is hugely admired and

:19:34. > :19:38.respected, but if it is to continue to reach those people in places

:19:39. > :19:42.where they have very limited access to impartial and objective news, it

:19:43. > :19:46.is important that they use every means of delivery to do so, and that

:19:47. > :19:50.is certainly something I would encourage the BBC to do and I'm sure

:19:51. > :20:00.he will talk to them further about that. I welcome my right honourable

:20:01. > :20:06.friend's statement and the fact that some of the more radical proponents

:20:07. > :20:10.have not been included. He has spoken of the importance of local

:20:11. > :20:15.radio, which will be well demonstrated in my area on Sunday

:20:16. > :20:18.afternoon when Grimsby town make yet another attempt to re-game football

:20:19. > :20:23.league status and thousands of fans will be listening to radio

:20:24. > :20:28.Humberside. But the future is also about local TV and my constituency

:20:29. > :20:35.is well served by estuary TV. Does he see a role for the BBC in local

:20:36. > :20:40.TV stations? I would say to my honourable friend, I'm sorry I'm not

:20:41. > :20:43.able to join him to watch Grimsby, but the BBC has had a role in

:20:44. > :20:49.supporting local television, as he will be aware. This was as part of

:20:50. > :20:52.the last licence fee settlement, there was a fund made available to

:20:53. > :20:58.support local television but it was always clear it was for a limited

:20:59. > :21:02.period, to allow local television to become established, and then local

:21:03. > :21:06.television would be expected to pay for itself rather than rely upon

:21:07. > :21:10.subsidy from the licence fee payer, so I'm afraid I have to say there

:21:11. > :21:17.are no plans to go beyond the existing support that has been to

:21:18. > :21:23.local television. Does my right honourable friend share my hope that

:21:24. > :21:28.if additional subscription services are successfully introduced by the

:21:29. > :21:33.BBC it will encourage them to have the confidence to move away from the

:21:34. > :21:36.current outdated financing model to a system more suited to the

:21:37. > :21:43.21st-century, giving individuals the freedom to choose whether to pay for

:21:44. > :21:48.a licence fee or not? I'm grateful to my honourable friend, and I think

:21:49. > :21:52.he is right that the world is changing fast and there may come a

:21:53. > :21:56.time when the existing model becomes harder to sustain. I think that is

:21:57. > :22:02.something the BBC has recognised and the proposals I referred to our

:22:03. > :22:05.proposals by the BBC. They will set up these pilots, they will assess

:22:06. > :22:11.them, and then the information that is obtained from them will be used

:22:12. > :22:14.to inform the next charter process when obviously new options for

:22:15. > :22:23.funding models may become available which are not there at present. I

:22:24. > :22:28.welcome the statement, especially about enhancing the BBC's local

:22:29. > :22:34.output. In Northamptonshire the standard of BBC local radio output

:22:35. > :22:37.is of the highest integrity and I congratulate the news and production

:22:38. > :22:41.teams there for the service they provide. How does he envisaged the

:22:42. > :22:50.new Royal Charter and hands these services in future? -- enhancing? I

:22:51. > :22:57.share his admiration for local radio particularly and local services. The

:22:58. > :23:05.BBC's general requirements to serve the nations and regions is set out

:23:06. > :23:09.clearly. Ofcom will be producing the service licences which will make

:23:10. > :23:15.clear the expectation on the BBC, so that will provide further detail of

:23:16. > :23:19.how we expect them to do that. It is a matter which Ofcom will be

:23:20. > :23:25.concentrating on in the coming months in terms of drawing up those

:23:26. > :23:31.service licences. I said yesterday and repeat again today, I regard

:23:32. > :23:35.local radio as one of those aspects of BBC services which is fundamental

:23:36. > :23:45.to delivery of its public service remit and which is not provided by

:23:46. > :23:51.the commercial sector. I welcome the requirements for more productions to

:23:52. > :23:55.be tended and does my right honourable friend agreed that this

:23:56. > :23:59.will help to write the historic imbalance of the share of production

:24:00. > :24:04.which is currently lacking across the East Midlands? This would

:24:05. > :24:09.inevitably have the effect of giving my constituents more value for their

:24:10. > :24:14.licence fee and helping to increase the local creative business, which

:24:15. > :24:18.is definitely good news. I do agree with my honourable friend, there is

:24:19. > :24:23.no doubt that there are incredibly innovative and successful production

:24:24. > :24:27.companies in every part of the United Kingdom and I have no doubt

:24:28. > :24:32.that the East Midlands is one of those. By opening up the whole of

:24:33. > :24:35.the schedule for competition, in that way, it will give much more

:24:36. > :24:39.opportunity to the independent production sector, it will support

:24:40. > :24:43.the companies in my honourable friend's area as across the rest of

:24:44. > :24:46.the UK, and it will give more choice to BBC commissioning editors and

:24:47. > :24:57.ultimately higher quality programmes for the viewers. Order. Point of

:24:58. > :25:04.order. As you know, on the 28th of April the leader of this House in

:25:05. > :25:09.response to the honourable member for brick and Gould made a

:25:10. > :25:11.defamatory statement about the Humberside Labour Party's

:25:12. > :25:20.prospective Police and Crime Commissioner candidate. The Leader

:25:21. > :25:24.of the House stated in response to a question that my honourable friend

:25:25. > :25:27.makes an important point, I'm aware of the allegations about the Police

:25:28. > :25:32.and Crime Commissioner candidate in Humberside. If the story is alleged

:25:33. > :25:35.about that candidate are true, he is unfit for public office, and it is a

:25:36. > :25:42.matter of public interest that the truth should be known before the

:25:43. > :25:46.election. Mr Speaker, I wrote to the Leader of the House asking him for

:25:47. > :25:54.the precise basis of these remarks. I asked him to either tell us what

:25:55. > :25:58.they are about or to withdraw them. He didn't have the courtesy of

:25:59. > :26:03.responding to me, so you allowed me, Mr Speaker, on the 10th of May, to

:26:04. > :26:08.raise the matter as a point of order. Yesterday, Mr Speaker, the

:26:09. > :26:12.Leader of the House did trouble himself to reply to me. It is a

:26:13. > :26:16.shame he has not stayed around to answer the point of order, knowing

:26:17. > :26:21.that it is to be raised. But he simply says this in his answer to

:26:22. > :26:27.me: Ranking for the letter of the 3rd of May, regarding my response to

:26:28. > :26:33.the member at business questions on the 28th of April. My understanding

:26:34. > :26:38.is that you are fully aware of the points I raised. Well, Mr Speaker,

:26:39. > :26:44.I'm not fully aware of the points raised by the Leader of the House. I

:26:45. > :26:47.suspect that the points raised by the Leader of the House are a

:26:48. > :26:52.figment of his imagination because I have had the opportunity now to

:26:53. > :26:56.speak with the honourable member and he assures me, and I believed him,

:26:57. > :27:02.that he was not referring to the Labour Party candidate in

:27:03. > :27:07.Humberside, Keith Hunter, when he asked the question, so, Mr Speaker,

:27:08. > :27:12.could you advise me on two matters, firstly what can be done about

:27:13. > :27:17.Cabinet members coming to the dispatch box and using this place

:27:18. > :27:22.for vicious party political campaigning, knowing full well when

:27:23. > :27:27.they make statements there will be traction in the media causing people

:27:28. > :27:32.to have to answer to media inquiries, and, second, would you

:27:33. > :27:42.add five me what members do about receiving what can only be said is

:27:43. > :27:43.just an incredibly rude, discourteous response from the

:27:44. > :28:03.Leader of the House? THE SPEAKER: What he describes as

:28:04. > :28:09.the use of the dispatch box for vicious political party campaigning

:28:10. > :28:14.that is somewhat beyond my per view, I have no ambition to bring an end

:28:15. > :28:22.to such activity and I don't think that ambition would be a realistic

:28:23. > :28:26.one. Secondly, he has made his concern on this matter clear. As I

:28:27. > :28:31.said on Monday in response to his point of order on that occasion,

:28:32. > :28:34.what is said in this place by any member, any member, is the

:28:35. > :28:40.responsibility of that member. It is for the leader of the House to

:28:41. > :28:46.decide whether he wishes to correct or to clarify what he said about

:28:47. > :28:51.this matter. The honourable gentleman referred to

:28:52. > :28:57.vicious party political campaigning, but in trying to be helpful to him,

:28:58. > :29:07.I detect that what concerns him is what he judges to be an incorrect

:29:08. > :29:15.and inaccurate, or a false personal attack. My answer to that is, each

:29:16. > :29:20.member must take responsibility. Members have parliamentary

:29:21. > :29:28.privilege. That parliamentary privilege must be used with care and

:29:29. > :29:36.responsibility. If it is not it is damaging to the

:29:37. > :29:39.doctrine of prarltry -- parliamentary privilege and to the

:29:40. > :29:43.rights of not only the member concerned, but those of members

:29:44. > :29:47.across the House. Whether it is necessary for anything

:29:48. > :29:51.to be said by the Leader of the House is not at this stage something

:29:52. > :29:55.I can possibly judge, but I have tried to give as full and fair a

:29:56. > :30:01.response to the honourable gentleman as I can.

:30:02. > :30:05.I will come to other members. A point of order.

:30:06. > :30:12.It is about qualified privilege, public record and the protection of

:30:13. > :30:17.citizens, not necessarily political people. On 20th April, in response

:30:18. > :30:24.to a parliamentary question, the Prime Minister referred to a Mr

:30:25. > :30:30.Garni and said, this man supports IS - the Islamic State. Now, that is an

:30:31. > :30:33.incredibly serious allegation. Massive political implications,

:30:34. > :30:38.might restrict somebody's right to travel, perhaps to the US and could

:30:39. > :30:43.put him and his family's safety at risk. It transpires the allegation

:30:44. > :30:47.was not true. On Monday of this week I wrote to the Prime Minister asking

:30:48. > :30:53.him to correct this. And to be fair, there was an apology and correction

:30:54. > :30:58.issued by a spokesman by ten Downing Street yesterday. But, of course it

:30:59. > :31:02.didn't have the same prominence as the original allegation and in many

:31:03. > :31:06.ways, just as important, does not correct the original allegation in

:31:07. > :31:12.the official record. It can still be published by others

:31:13. > :31:17.under qualified privilege. Maybe people who do not follow our affairs

:31:18. > :31:22.so closely. I am concerned about the consequences of this. And what can

:31:23. > :31:30.be done by the Government to protect people like this from the further,

:31:31. > :31:34.no matter how unintentional against his reputation?

:31:35. > :31:39.THE SPEAKER: I thank the gentleman for his point of order and for his

:31:40. > :31:43.courtesy to me in providing advanced notice of it. I understand that the

:31:44. > :31:46.Prime Minister has answered a written question on this matter

:31:47. > :31:52.today. Seeking to clarify what he said in

:31:53. > :31:56.the House and this is available on the parliamentary website in the

:31:57. > :32:03.usual way. However, I appreciate that members

:32:04. > :32:08.are here and they want a specific and informative reply. They may well

:32:09. > :32:12.not yet have consulted the parliamentary website. The question

:32:13. > :32:16.was tabled by The Right Honourable gentleman, the member for Broadland,

:32:17. > :32:21.and was answered by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister has

:32:22. > :32:27.answered, "I was referring to reports Mr Garni supports an Islamic

:32:28. > :32:33.State. I am clear this does not mean Mr Garni supports the organisation

:32:34. > :32:44.and I apologise to him for any misunderstanding. As I have said

:32:45. > :32:49.before, indeed, only a few moments ago what a member says in this place

:32:50. > :32:54.is the responsibility of that member.

:32:55. > :33:03.I reiterate, as I often do while parliamentary privilege is an

:33:04. > :33:11.essential protection of free speech, all members should reflect carefully

:33:12. > :33:19.before criticising individuals. As Erskine May notes, it is the duty of

:33:20. > :33:24.each member to refrain from any course of action prejudicial to the

:33:25. > :33:30.privilege he enjoys. Now, I have already referred to the

:33:31. > :33:36.written answer and The Right Honourable gentleman has referred to

:33:37. > :33:46.what I understand to be an apology issued by a spokesperson last night.

:33:47. > :33:49.It is not for the chair to require a member to apologise on the floor of

:33:50. > :33:54.the House. It is perfectly open to a member to

:33:55. > :34:03.do so. A good grace in these circumstances,

:34:04. > :34:07.I know, are always appreciated. Point of order, Diana Johnson.

:34:08. > :34:12.Questions on 5th May, 2016, the leader of the House said, I should

:34:13. > :34:19.inform the House that ministers will provide a quarterly report on Syria

:34:20. > :34:24.before prorogation. It was part of the motion agreed in this House on

:34:25. > :34:28.2nd December, 2015. As the first few weeks will be taken up with the new

:34:29. > :34:32.session, with the Queen's speech, I wanted to seek your guidance, Mr

:34:33. > :34:37.Speaker, as to when would be the very first opportunity that we would

:34:38. > :34:47.be able to have a statement from the Government on the situation in Syria

:34:48. > :34:52.and military involvement? THE SPEAKER: Realistically, it seems

:34:53. > :34:57.to me that a statement cannot be made to the House for at least a

:34:58. > :35:04.week, and it may be somewhat longer than that.

:35:05. > :35:10.I take very seriously the point of order that the honourable lady has

:35:11. > :35:15.raised. I am bound to say that I did recall what was said at business

:35:16. > :35:18.questions last week and I had rather anticipated there was to be such a

:35:19. > :35:24.statement today. It was an expectation shared by a very, very

:35:25. > :35:29.conscientious Government whip, who approached me about another matter

:35:30. > :35:37.earlier this morning and referred to the first of the statements. I

:35:38. > :35:41.advised him there was only one Government statement said. He said I

:35:42. > :35:44.thought there was a member on Syria. I said you are a member of the

:35:45. > :35:48.Whip's Office. There appears not to be a statement on Syria. But the

:35:49. > :35:52.House was told there would be. There may very well have been some private

:35:53. > :35:57.understanding reached between the front benches on this matter. I have

:35:58. > :36:02.no way of knowing that. Although I would just say whether that is the

:36:03. > :36:07.case or not, that there has to be a respect for the rights of the House

:36:08. > :36:11.and its legitimate expectations as a whole. This is not just a matter of

:36:12. > :36:15.what front benches may or may not have agreed. So, I confess I was

:36:16. > :36:22.looking forward to the statement. It seemed to me a very important matter

:36:23. > :36:25.and the Government chief whip is unfailingly courteous to me and all

:36:26. > :36:32.members is in his place and he's heard what has been said. I very,

:36:33. > :36:37.let's put it like, that it was a very good commitment, I hope we can

:36:38. > :36:43.have that statement as soon as is practical. There is a lot of

:36:44. > :36:46.parliamentary interest in the matter and I no ethe Government won't want

:36:47. > :36:51.to disappoint. Point of order.

:36:52. > :36:56.That point of order, you will be aware I have been pursuing this

:36:57. > :37:01.issue of the Syrian quarterly statements for some months now in a

:37:02. > :37:04.possibly irritating fashion. I accept that the Government have made

:37:05. > :37:11.a number of statements on this matter, whether it is the siege of

:37:12. > :37:15.Aleppo, the Russian intervention, the humanitarian conference, but

:37:16. > :37:20.they have rarely focussed on the matter which I think the Prime

:37:21. > :37:25.Minister promised to report on and that was quarterly statements in

:37:26. > :37:33.relation to the REF's action against distinctiveness in Syria. As you

:37:34. > :37:36.were, I was looking forward to what the Leader of the House has promised

:37:37. > :37:40.us a week ago in terms of a statement today. I fail to

:37:41. > :37:46.understand why it is not on the order paper. I wonder whether there

:37:47. > :37:53.are perhaps other mechanisms that we can use, perhaps mead yatdly after

:37:54. > :37:58.the Queen -- immediately after the Queen's speech, if there had been a

:37:59. > :38:03.development whether you would commit urgent questions or any other

:38:04. > :38:08.parliamentary procedures to be used to enable to House to be briefed on

:38:09. > :38:17.this matter, as it was promised a week ago?

:38:18. > :38:21.THE SPEAKER: People irritate other people, but members hardly ever

:38:22. > :38:25.irritate me and I am always happy to hear members. I am very happy to

:38:26. > :38:28.hear The Right Honourable gentleman's Right Honourable friend

:38:29. > :38:32.yesterday. So keen was I that I called him something like ten

:38:33. > :38:36.minutes into injury time. I am sure he won't have any complaints. He's a

:38:37. > :38:40.robust character and can look after himself and he has a good sense of

:38:41. > :38:43.humour, in any case. I don't think I can offer the prospect of a

:38:44. > :38:53.statement on Wednesday of next week. I think that is simply not

:38:54. > :38:55.practical. And I think that we have to balance the understandable

:38:56. > :39:00.disappointment on the part of many members that there isn't a statement

:39:01. > :39:04.today with a degree of reasonableness.

:39:05. > :39:10.Reasonableness as to when that statement can take place. I don't

:39:11. > :39:13.think we would serve the House by interrupting the Queen's speech

:39:14. > :39:16.debate on Wednesday of next week. I don't think there's a precedent for

:39:17. > :39:20.that. That is not necessary. However, the Government will be

:39:21. > :39:24.sensitive to the relative urgency of the matter. If there were, and I

:39:25. > :39:28.hope there isn't, but if there were very disturbing news which were to

:39:29. > :39:33.be included in that statement, that would, if you like, up the ante and

:39:34. > :39:38.emphasis there is a premier on the delivery of that statement at the

:39:39. > :39:42.earliest possible opportunity. I hope in future that if commitments

:39:43. > :39:46.are made, they can be honoured and then we won't have to have a re-run

:39:47. > :39:49.of this exchange. I note the leader of the House is in the House. He's

:39:50. > :39:55.welcome to respond to the point of order from the gentleman if he

:39:56. > :39:59.wants, but he's not under any obligation to do so. No, no, The

:40:00. > :40:02.Right Honourable gentleman has written and he's not under any

:40:03. > :40:04.obligation. I thought it would be wrong not to give him the chance.

:40:05. > :40:18.Order! , wonderful piece of advice here.

:40:19. > :40:26.Rather than suspending to await the arrival of Blackrock, I suggest that

:40:27. > :40:34.I suspend now pro forma by briefly leaving the chair, which I will then

:40:35. > :41:07.resume at, let's say, 117. LAUGHTER

:41:08. > :41:11.Hello from Westminster. It has been a year since the last

:41:12. > :41:16.General Election and over the last couple of weeks, the Lords and

:41:17. > :41:20.Commons have been playing parliamentary ping-pong, as they

:41:21. > :41:26.arguably most controversial pieces of new legislation. It has been a

:41:27. > :41:29.case of compromise or lose the bill. Now, the talking is over and it is

:41:30. > :41:38.time for the Prorogation of Parliament.