19/07/2016

:00:00. > :00:00.Metro, there is not much more I can add to what I have previously said.

:00:00. > :00:08.The Government is wanting to support transport infrastructure across the

:00:09. > :00:13.country and are looking at `ll good products -- projects. We have had 20

:00:14. > :00:20.topical questions and we must now move on. Urgent question. Elily

:00:21. > :00:32.Thornberry. To as the secretary of state if he will make a statement on

:00:33. > :00:36.recent departments in Turkex. May I thank the honourable lady vdry much

:00:37. > :00:41.for applying for this questhon today. Members on both sides of the

:00:42. > :00:44.House will have seen from events unfolding on their television

:00:45. > :00:49.screens and the claim clear on Friday that a military uprising was

:00:50. > :00:54.underway in Turkey. It was `n attempted coup which we condemn

:00:55. > :00:59.unreservedly. This was ultilately unsuccessful and constitutional

:01:00. > :01:03.order has been restored. However, 210 people have reportedly been

:01:04. > :01:07.killed and some 1400 injured. I m sure the House will join me in

:01:08. > :01:12.expressing our sympathies and condolences to the people of Turkey

:01:13. > :01:15.on this tragic loss of life. Her Majesty's Government has bedn

:01:16. > :01:19.closely engaged throughout the weekend. Foreign and Commonwealth

:01:20. > :01:23.Office consular staff have worked tirelessly through said on Sunday to

:01:24. > :01:29.support Bush and National is affected and they continue to do so.

:01:30. > :01:32.We have received no reports of British casualties. Our advhce to

:01:33. > :01:37.British nationals remains to monitor media reports and follow FCO travel

:01:38. > :01:41.advice including through our Facebook and Twitter accounts. My

:01:42. > :01:45.right honourable friend, thd Prime Minister, spoke to the Preshdent

:01:46. > :01:48.last night and she expressed her condolences for the loss of life and

:01:49. > :01:54.commended the bravery of thd Turkish people. The Prime Minister

:01:55. > :01:56.underlined our support the turkey's Government and democratic

:01:57. > :02:00.institutions stressing therd was no place for the military in politics.

:02:01. > :02:05.The Prime Minister underlindd the importance of our corporation on

:02:06. > :02:08.counterterrorism, migration, regional security and defence. My

:02:09. > :02:13.right honourable friend, thd Foreign Secretary, was regularly updated by

:02:14. > :02:17.officials as events unfolded. He visited the teams in the FCO's

:02:18. > :02:22.crisis centre responding to Nice on Friday morning and then agahn the

:02:23. > :02:29.turkey on Saturday morning. He has spoken to his Turkish countdrpart to

:02:30. > :02:33.express our concern and how support the turkey's democratic Govdrnment

:02:34. > :02:40.and its democratic instituthons and to urge calm and encourage `ll

:02:41. > :02:46.parties to work to restore order quickly and in an inclusive way --

:02:47. > :02:51.Turkey. Her Majesty's ambassador in Turkey has been in touch with his

:02:52. > :02:57.Turkish counterparts. I spoke to him myself, to express our concdrn for

:02:58. > :03:03.the welfare of embassy staff and I plan to visit Ankara tomorrow. The

:03:04. > :03:06.Foreign Secretary effect -- attended the foreign affairs Council and

:03:07. > :03:09.participated in a discussion of Turkey. There is a strong sdnse of

:03:10. > :03:15.common purpose between us and our European partners. The forehgn

:03:16. > :03:19.affairs Council has issued conclusions strongly condemning the

:03:20. > :03:25.coup attempt. Welcoming the parties in support of turkey's democracy and

:03:26. > :03:30.stressing the importance for the rule of law prevailing and hts

:03:31. > :03:34.rejection of the death penalty. The Turkish Government now has the

:03:35. > :03:39.opportunity to build on thehr strong domestic support they gathered in

:03:40. > :03:43.response to the coup attempt. The measured and careful response will

:03:44. > :03:49.sustain the unity of purposd which we have seen so far and which was so

:03:50. > :03:53.clearly evident on the stredts of Istanbul and Ankara. The UK stands

:03:54. > :03:58.ready to assist Turkey, to take forward the reforms to which it has

:03:59. > :04:02.committed itself and to help the democratically elected Government to

:04:03. > :04:10.restore order in a way that reflects and supports the rule of law. I

:04:11. > :04:14.thank the honourable gentlelan. Can I welcome him to his new position.

:04:15. > :04:18.It is unfortunate that he and his team have had to be brought to this

:04:19. > :04:31.house and did not think it right to make a statement themselves. I hope

:04:32. > :04:38.all mail --... It is a vagud political and strategic importance

:04:39. > :04:41.to the world. It straddles ` divide with eight countries. It has

:04:42. > :04:48.important minorities partictlarly Kurds and Armenians. Half a million

:04:49. > :04:51.people of Turkish or Kurdish descent live in the UK and they are

:04:52. > :04:56.desperately worried about their families. With 2 million visitors a

:04:57. > :04:59.year, Turkey is greatly lovdd and our two countries cannot be

:05:00. > :05:04.separated. How many British citizens have been arrested and what support

:05:05. > :05:07.is being provided to them? What is the advice the British nationals in

:05:08. > :05:12.Turkey and those who booked travel arrangements. On Friday we saw

:05:13. > :05:15.Turkish people whether they supported the Government or not

:05:16. > :05:19.supporting democracy and making a clear statement that ministry -

:05:20. > :05:31.military coup's have a placd in democracy. 9000 police officers

:05:32. > :05:34.dismissed, third of the gendrals dismissed, 7500 people arrested

:05:35. > :05:38.including the most senior jtdges in the country and the death pdnalty

:05:39. > :05:43.being introduced. What reassurances has he had that there would be fair

:05:44. > :05:52.trials for accused of complhcity? Was the firing -- Foreign Office

:05:53. > :05:58.taken by surprise by this coup? What will happen to this vital ally? What

:05:59. > :06:03.will happen next? It is vit`l we work together to ensure that Turkey

:06:04. > :06:11.has a secure foundation of democracy, freedom of speech and

:06:12. > :06:17.human rights into the futurd. May I thank her for her warm welcome to me

:06:18. > :06:20.at least. I would point out that the noble Baroness who is also `

:06:21. > :06:25.Minister of State at the Foreign Office when I last spoke to her was

:06:26. > :06:30.a woman. From a personal pohnt of view, can I point out that H am also

:06:31. > :06:40.able to add to the spectrum of choice she would like to sed in our

:06:41. > :06:46.ministerial team. I am not `ware of any... I would say to the honourable

:06:47. > :06:53.gentleman that he should be aware of how I had. I am not aware of any UK

:06:54. > :07:00.citizens who have been arrested but that is a very, very serious

:07:01. > :07:05.objective for us to pursue `nd find out and make sure that remahns the

:07:06. > :07:11.case. I think the whole house will agree with your point about the

:07:12. > :07:16.importance of wanting to sed the process of law upheld for any trials

:07:17. > :07:21.should they happen to be fahr and to make sure the highest princhples of

:07:22. > :07:26.democratic standards are upheld for which one needs a functional and

:07:27. > :07:30.independent judiciary. I will be discussing all these matters when I

:07:31. > :07:36.go to Ankara tomorrow and I hope that in the reaction they dhsplay to

:07:37. > :07:39.this coup attempt that Turkdy will be able to remain a very important

:07:40. > :07:46.member of Nato and a partner to other countries within Europe and in

:07:47. > :07:53.answer to her straightforward question about whether we wdre taken

:07:54. > :08:01.by surprise, yes, I am not sure there was anybody that wasn't. The

:08:02. > :08:05.Prime Minister appears not have mentioned the arrest of 3000 members

:08:06. > :08:09.of the judiciary in her compensation with the Turkish President. It seems

:08:10. > :08:14.a strange way to uphold the rule of law and the Independent is reporting

:08:15. > :08:18.that Nato's leadership has lade it clear commitment to uphold democracy

:08:19. > :08:23.including tolerating divershty is one of the four requirements for

:08:24. > :08:31.members of the alliance. Is that the position of Her Majesty's

:08:32. > :08:35.Government? Secretary Kerry made similar comments yesterday.

:08:36. > :08:40.Retaining an independent judiciary which will require judges working to

:08:41. > :08:44.apply the process of law is essential if we are to see the

:08:45. > :08:49.standards we wish to see upheld in Turkey. I know what the honourable

:08:50. > :08:54.gentleman says about Nato. Turkey does remain an important ally within

:08:55. > :08:57.Nato and am valued UK partndr. We encourage Turkey to maintain its

:08:58. > :09:05.democratic institutions and the rule of law as a fundamental part of

:09:06. > :09:11.Nato's Value agenda. Can I welcome the right honourable gentlelan to

:09:12. > :09:15.his place in a late flowering of his ministerial career. We suspdct he

:09:16. > :09:21.might well be at the dispatch box on many occasions substitution for the

:09:22. > :09:26.absent Foreign Secretary. The Foreign Secretary advocated an

:09:27. > :09:33.immediate Turkey succession to the European Union, an argument he was

:09:34. > :09:36.later to justify a Brexit. Can we be assured that there will be no such

:09:37. > :09:42.ambiguity in the messages which now go to Turkey? Ten responsible

:09:43. > :09:45.Government can support a military coup against a democratic

:09:46. > :09:52.Government, no democratic Government engages in the progression of Civil

:09:53. > :09:56.Liberties like the Kurds, imprisonment of thousands of people,

:09:57. > :10:01.the suspension of parliamentary rights, the introduction of the

:10:02. > :10:04.death penalty and will he m`ke it clear to President Erdogan, it is

:10:05. > :10:07.not just the European Union mentorship at risk from that course

:10:08. > :10:11.of action that Nato membership as well?

:10:12. > :10:20.I am very grateful for his description of me. I never saw

:10:21. > :10:24.myself as a hardy perennial. Can I also make it clear to the House that

:10:25. > :10:28.my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, who has been

:10:29. > :10:33.described as accident is working very furiously, having been to

:10:34. > :10:38.Brussels already. He is due to go to Washington and meeting forehgn

:10:39. > :10:43.officials today for meetings on Syria and Yemen. This is ill judged

:10:44. > :10:49.for him to criticise him for getting me to answer this urgent qudstion

:10:50. > :10:54.today. Nonetheless, I agree with him that we... I also have a job to and

:10:55. > :11:02.I hope I am doing it satisf`ctory in the House. When it comes to Turkey's

:11:03. > :11:08.session, this is clearly a very very long way off and it is to soon

:11:09. > :11:12.after events to make long-tdrm judgments about it. Some might think

:11:13. > :11:19.this is less than a matter of the UK than it was before the 23rd of June.

:11:20. > :11:26.My right honourable friend lay know that I have 41 students frol my

:11:27. > :11:31.constituency got up at the `irport as well as seven staff. Thanks to

:11:32. > :11:37.the leadership of the headtdacher and senior member of staff Sue

:11:38. > :11:39.Bailey who showed excellent and responsible leadership in

:11:40. > :11:44.extraordinary difficult circumstances. All 48 of thdm were

:11:45. > :11:51.able to leave the following morning and head down to south Africa, where

:11:52. > :11:55.the school is twinned. Can H threw my right honourable friend Peter

:11:56. > :11:59.Bute to the outstanding service the Foreign Office provided to ly

:12:00. > :12:06.constituents and to Matt Jordan E official who was in the airport at

:12:07. > :12:13.the time and gave consular services to my constituents in a truly

:12:14. > :12:17.outstanding way. I know my right honourable friend is always fully on

:12:18. > :12:21.top of anything that affects his constituents in Solihull and I know

:12:22. > :12:24.on this particular matter hd was closely in touch with them `nd I

:12:25. > :12:32.completely share with him hhs commendation of the initiathve and

:12:33. > :12:37.leadership. I beg your pardon. It is very important that I get mx

:12:38. > :12:42.geography right, not just in the United Kingdom! I think what the

:12:43. > :12:48.teachers did was commendabld and the natural thing to do is for the

:12:49. > :12:52.Foreign Office to send people to the airport which is a natural hub in

:12:53. > :12:57.the response of a sudden outbreak of concern, like this. I am full of

:12:58. > :13:01.praise that the staff reactdd so promptly and with such inithative to

:13:02. > :13:08.this sudden and unexpected lilitary uprising. Thank you. Can I tell the

:13:09. > :13:15.minister that yesterday my honourable friend a member let with

:13:16. > :13:21.the chairman of the British Federation and the raised ddep

:13:22. > :13:25.concerns about the tensions in the Kurdish populated neighbourhoods due

:13:26. > :13:33.to attacks and demonstrations by April President Erdogan supporters.

:13:34. > :13:37.Many of my constituents havd frightening reports from frhends and

:13:38. > :13:42.family in Turkey who feel they are being targeted. Will the Minister

:13:43. > :13:47.impress upon President Erdogan and two Riverview meets tomorrow when he

:13:48. > :13:52.goes to Turkey, the need to ensure the safety and protection of all

:13:53. > :13:59.citizens, especially ethnic and religious minorities who fedl very

:14:00. > :14:04.vulnerable at the moment -- who ever he meets. I appreciate the concerns

:14:05. > :14:09.and it is important new leadership of Turkey includes everybodx, all

:14:10. > :14:15.its citizens in the climate of human rights and fair treatment in that

:14:16. > :14:20.country. Michael Gaul. Can H warmly welcome my right honourable friend

:14:21. > :14:25.to his position. He has diplomatic and business experience and will add

:14:26. > :14:30.strength to a formidable Foreign Office team. President Erdogan used

:14:31. > :14:34.social media in the difficult hours after the coup attempt was launched

:14:35. > :14:42.to rally the Turkish people against this legal to Iraq illegal `ttempt

:14:43. > :14:47.to seize power. In the past it has not allowed social media and

:14:48. > :14:51.critical of press media. Will he take this opportunity to ensure

:14:52. > :14:57.President Erdogan appreciatd press freedom and beat of speech hs one of

:14:58. > :15:04.the that those behind this to want to crush and he should uphold. I

:15:05. > :15:08.thank him for his comments of my appointment. He is right, freedom of

:15:09. > :15:14.speech and the media are essential to the proper working of anx

:15:15. > :15:19.democracy and any country. He is quite right that the use of social

:15:20. > :15:23.media on this occasion did prove very useful for quelling thd

:15:24. > :15:30.uprising and the irony of what you said is not lost on the people.

:15:31. > :15:36.Thank you, Mr Speaker. Some of us have always been sceptical `bout the

:15:37. > :15:40.suitability of Turkey as a safe country that refugees could be

:15:41. > :15:46.returned under the EU deal. Can he confirm that EU deal is unddr review

:15:47. > :15:51.and will he press upon the Turkish Government that if its conthnuation,

:15:52. > :15:57.including the many advantagds they stand to go to Turkish designs under

:15:58. > :16:05.it will be judged according to their response and particular response to

:16:06. > :16:09.human rights? I see that thd UK is committed to the successful

:16:10. > :16:13.implementation of the bill, which I think he was referring to. We see no

:16:14. > :16:16.indications that the treatmdnt of refugees in Turkey has been affected

:16:17. > :16:23.by these recent events. We will continue to monitor developlents

:16:24. > :16:28.closely, but we do want to see this deal to continue to work properly.

:16:29. > :16:33.May I congratulate my right honourable friend on his return to

:16:34. > :16:35.the front bench any role in which he brings considerable expertise and

:16:36. > :16:41.experience. While members h`ve focused on the butt girl

:16:42. > :16:50.implications and implications for EU nationals of the events -- political

:16:51. > :16:54.implications, the staff in @nkara and Istanbul have played and

:16:55. > :16:58.continue to play is huge role in managing the implications of those

:16:59. > :17:06.events. Can he update the House on the safety of our consulate staff? I

:17:07. > :17:10.am grateful and I think all of our staff in Ankara and in stand built

:17:11. > :17:15.will be very grateful to hil for raising this particular tophc. One

:17:16. > :17:20.of the main reasons I wish to visit Ankara tomorrow is to reasstre the

:17:21. > :17:24.staff in the foreign Commonwealth office. They had a shocking and

:17:25. > :17:30.unpleasant experience we're suddenly out of the car came jet, shooting,

:17:31. > :17:34.explosions and very near thd embassy. Some of our staff were

:17:35. > :17:39.separated from their childrdn and for this to happen so suddenly and

:17:40. > :17:44.in such circumstances is a very dramatic experience. I conshder it

:17:45. > :17:49.very important as a minister to have a Judy of care and it is my top

:17:50. > :17:54.priority to do that when I go to Ankara tomorrow. -- duty of care.

:17:55. > :17:59.There are still questions about the origins of the attempted cotp which

:18:00. > :18:04.took place last Friday evenhng. Is it not encouraging that opposition

:18:05. > :18:11.parties, however critical the are of the Turkish president, the `re

:18:12. > :18:14.critical and made it clear they were totally opposed to any military

:18:15. > :18:19.dictatorship and military Government is not the answer to Turkey's

:18:20. > :18:23.problems. Would it not also be useful if the Government made it

:18:24. > :18:28.clear here to the Turkish authorities and particularlx, Mr

:18:29. > :18:36.Speaker, to the Turkish president of the fears which affect the Turkish

:18:37. > :18:42.Government would use what occurred on Friday as a means of further

:18:43. > :18:49.oppression on people know wd involved in the coup. It is time to

:18:50. > :18:55.start -- 2700 judges have bden arrested. How could they have been

:18:56. > :19:00.directly or indirectly involved I say to the honourable gentldman he

:19:01. > :19:11.is not entirely clear exactly who was behind the attempt. -- ht is not

:19:12. > :19:16.clear. We do not want to spdculate beyond that. Can I make it `lso

:19:17. > :19:19.clear to the House that, as the Prime Minister herself said

:19:20. > :19:24.yesterday, she called for the fool observance of Turkey's

:19:25. > :19:28.constitutional order and stressed the importance of the rule of law

:19:29. > :19:35.prevailing in the wake of this field to. Everything must be done to

:19:36. > :19:37.provide -- avoid further violence and we are watching very closely to

:19:38. > :19:48.see that due process is applied in Turkex. Can I

:19:49. > :19:56.express solidarity on behalf of my constituents on this hot little time

:19:57. > :20:04.for Turkish people. What -- difficult time. What is the

:20:05. > :20:10.Ministers understanding of... I think, Mr Speaker, it is too early

:20:11. > :20:15.to say it but it is clear a name has been in the spotlight and Ttrkey has

:20:16. > :20:21.applied for his extradition to the US. That is a matter for Turkey and

:20:22. > :20:24.the United States. It is important to understand people living in the

:20:25. > :20:29.UK who may have friends and family in Turkey will have concerns and we

:20:30. > :20:32.also need to issue reassurance to them that the Government is taking a

:20:33. > :20:40.proper interest in what was happening and is fully engaged to

:20:41. > :20:42.ensure calm will prevail. The Minister has rightly stressdd the

:20:43. > :20:49.importance of Turkey as a significant need to ally. C`n he

:20:50. > :20:57.indicate what attempt can bd made through the institutions of the Nato

:20:58. > :21:01.alliance to make it clear to the Turkish Government the democratic

:21:02. > :21:07.norms and adherence to the rule of law must be upheld? I imagine pretty

:21:08. > :21:14.well every Nato country would have been in touch and we want to make

:21:15. > :21:19.sure the conduct of the Turkish Government be compatible with the

:21:20. > :21:25.Nato. Nato has their own requirements, to which we wdnt to

:21:26. > :21:30.see Turkey Philly at here. @s a member of the Council of Europe I

:21:31. > :21:35.was in touch with Turkish MPs over the weekend. Turkey plays a vital

:21:36. > :21:39.role in the Council of Europe. What support is the UK Government going

:21:40. > :21:43.to give to Turkish MPs to hdlp them through this crisis? I think that is

:21:44. > :21:48.difficult to say at this early stage. I hope that our clear voice

:21:49. > :21:53.has been heard and one of the things we have rightly said, as thd

:21:54. > :21:57.honourable gentleman said, we fully welcome that all of the parties in

:21:58. > :22:07.have joined together and made it clear they condemn the coup and want

:22:08. > :22:13.democratic to prevail. That echoes our own thoughts and I hope our

:22:14. > :22:19.influence as diplomats can continue to encourage Turkey to step in that

:22:20. > :22:28.direction. I warmly congrattlate the Minister on his resurrection in all

:22:29. > :22:31.his glory and adversity. I'l glad he referred to consulate staff in

:22:32. > :22:38.particular. In 2003 the consulate general was murdered as a rdsult of

:22:39. > :22:43.a terrorist attack in Istanbul. Can I ask him, it has been our

:22:44. > :22:49.long-standing policy to bring Turkey into the European family of nations,

:22:50. > :22:53.whether within the European union or broadly speaking through Nato as

:22:54. > :23:01.well. To make sure they facd west as much, if not more, as the f`ce east

:23:02. > :23:05.towards Russia and Iran. With us leaving the European Union, how can

:23:06. > :23:09.we make sure we enhance and strengthen that process of bringing

:23:10. > :23:16.Turkey and pro-European Turkish politicians to face west? The

:23:17. > :23:27.Minister of State and I share shortness. Which can also bd

:23:28. > :23:34.translated as brevity. I appreciate it. May I just commend the right

:23:35. > :23:39.honourable gentleman for thd reputation he enjoys as the previous

:23:40. > :23:43.Foreign Office minister for the concern he always showed to those

:23:44. > :23:48.who work in the foreign Comlonwealth office, often in very difficult

:23:49. > :23:52.circumstances. We will have in the future bilateral opportunithes with

:23:53. > :23:58.Turkey and notwithstanding our imminent departure from the EU, I

:23:59. > :24:03.think anyway in which Turkex can replicate the standards we wish to

:24:04. > :24:06.see in other democratic countries, is something that will help them

:24:07. > :24:14.achieve exactly the Objective-C has explained. As my right honotrable

:24:15. > :24:18.said, we have an important relationship with Turkey, including

:24:19. > :24:22.our commitment to over a qu`rter of million in aid to support the

:24:23. > :24:25.refugees living there. Will the Government use our relationship with

:24:26. > :24:34.Turkey to exert pressure on President Erdogan, because he must

:24:35. > :24:42.not use it to to leakage legitimise a

:24:43. > :24:50.I share her concern. Turkey has taken an enormous amount of refugees

:24:51. > :24:59.and we should count -- thank them for that. In wanting to see a

:25:00. > :25:05.reaction to this failed coup that does not lead to unacceptable

:25:06. > :25:09.consequences is of course exactly what we as a Government and I think

:25:10. > :25:17.everybody in this house would very strongly urge. Can I take this

:25:18. > :25:20.opportunity to congratulate the minister on his appointments.

:25:21. > :25:24.President Erdogan has refusdd to rule out the return of the death

:25:25. > :25:29.penalty to Turkey as a response to this event. Can I ask the mhnister

:25:30. > :25:33.what discussions he has had or intends to have with the Turkish

:25:34. > :25:40.Government to make clear th`t such a change of heart will be regressive

:25:41. > :25:45.and very wrong? I'm grateful to the honourable lady for her comlents. I

:25:46. > :25:53.on this recreation agree with her. It is a very -- it is the vhew of

:25:54. > :25:58.Her Majesty's Government th`t we disagree with the death pen`lty It

:25:59. > :26:02.would be a deeply retrogradd step which would cause incalculable

:26:03. > :26:06.damage to the standing of Ttrkey just at a time when it is ilportant

:26:07. > :26:15.to embrace them within the world community and not see them become

:26:16. > :26:23.isolated from it. Can I welcome the friends to the front bench. We are

:26:24. > :26:26.talking about a repressive regime and it has arrested thousands. Does

:26:27. > :26:34.he share my concern about the condition of these men and women and

:26:35. > :26:41.make sure their human rights are respected? I can assure the

:26:42. > :26:46.honourable friend that I will not be -- that I would be saying what I

:26:47. > :26:50.think should happen. The proper process of law will form a very

:26:51. > :26:57.large part of what we would urge upon the Government of Turkdy. I'm

:26:58. > :27:02.glad to hear the minister t`lk about the importance of the rule of law

:27:03. > :27:05.and human rights. The last time I was in Turkey, I went for the into

:27:06. > :27:10.Parliamentary union to get ten members of Parliament who h`ve been

:27:11. > :27:16.imprisoned out of jail. I al glad to say that was done. Many werd from

:27:17. > :27:21.the south-east of Turkey and as the Minister knows, the situation in

:27:22. > :27:26.Kurdistan, south-east Turkex, is dire. The conditions there `re

:27:27. > :27:33.appalling. The military shotld be reined back there and human rights

:27:34. > :27:39.need to be emphasised there. We have concerns for the parliament`rians

:27:40. > :27:44.given the attack on the Turkish parliament and I'm sure the Minister

:27:45. > :27:51.will on behalf of this housd, convey our concerns for them and the hope

:27:52. > :27:53.that they continue this democracy. The right honourable lady

:27:54. > :27:59.understands the region extrdmely well and has a long-standing

:28:00. > :28:04.reputation for defending hulan rights and Kurdistan which has an

:28:05. > :28:09.effect on Turkey. I will convey her thoughts and I thought it is

:28:10. > :28:13.important to make sure that all of the things we have been talking

:28:14. > :28:17.about in terms of human rights are conveyed to the Turkish Govdrnment

:28:18. > :28:25.in what is a very complicatdd region with some acute and difficult

:28:26. > :28:28.pressures to handle. May I welcome the Minister to his role and say I

:28:29. > :28:33.have confidence in his abilhty to and questions on this house in many

:28:34. > :28:36.occasions when the Foreign Secretary will be promoting Britain's

:28:37. > :28:41.interests abroad which is what his job is to do. Can I as the

:28:42. > :28:44.Government to reiterate agahn that our commitment to democracy in

:28:45. > :28:48.Turkey is tied in with our commitment to women's rights, gay

:28:49. > :28:54.rights and the rights of other political and religious minorities

:28:55. > :28:59.in Turkey who may be friend at the moment? He is right in making the

:29:00. > :29:04.comment about the hard work of the Foreign Secretary and what he has

:29:05. > :29:07.said in his list of importance is something we could apply to any

:29:08. > :29:15.country in the world and it includes Turkey. Could I congratulatd the

:29:16. > :29:20.honourable gentleman for behng one of the House's great comeback kings.

:29:21. > :29:26.He will be able to keep the Secretary of State on the straight

:29:27. > :29:30.and narrow. Does he recognise the concern in my constituency which has

:29:31. > :29:36.the largest Turkish speaking population in the country, that the

:29:37. > :29:47.way the West behaved to President Erdogan is similar to the w`y we

:29:48. > :29:51.behaved to Mubarak? Putting Syrians into Kurdish areas to dilutdd the

:29:52. > :29:57.Kurdish influence in this country cannot be the right way. Will he be

:29:58. > :30:05.clear on the way this man treats the Kurdish majority in his country I

:30:06. > :30:10.am very happy, given the Turkish population, to offer him a

:30:11. > :30:14.face-to-face meeting with md to talk all these issues through because we

:30:15. > :30:19.do share the same value system and I think we are going to have to think

:30:20. > :30:26.about these problems to solve with a collapsed Syria, terrorist pressure

:30:27. > :30:30.on Turkey. It is not free of such pressures and has to work ott how to

:30:31. > :30:34.handle them. We have to appreciate that this is a complicated hssue and

:30:35. > :30:41.I would welcome him through the door of my office to discuss these issues

:30:42. > :30:45.in person. I very much welcome the Minister to his post and I know he

:30:46. > :30:49.will do a brilliant job. I welcome his statement in supporting the

:30:50. > :30:53.democratically elected Government in Turkey. The international community

:30:54. > :30:58.in the past supported milit`ry Government in Pakistan and the

:30:59. > :31:06.general in Egypt. Is it the position of the UK Government to support

:31:07. > :31:13.democratically elected governments? I say we support democracy `nd all

:31:14. > :31:18.of the values and rights th`t go with any properly functioning

:31:19. > :31:24.democratic state. It is the reality of the world that any country is not

:31:25. > :31:27.perfect. I hope we can use our diplomatic pressure to improve

:31:28. > :31:32.countries and make them unddrstand what world pressure really hs and

:31:33. > :31:37.you, Mr Speaker, were making a comment about shortness and I hope

:31:38. > :31:47.it means I am able to punch above my weight. Indeed. The Turkish

:31:48. > :31:54.Government has put in oppressive measures to people in eastern

:31:55. > :31:58.Anatolia and including the unwarranted arrests of lawydrs,

:31:59. > :32:04.politicians of journalists, members of the public and leading to the

:32:05. > :32:08.death of many civilians, wolen and children. Will the Minister impasse

:32:09. > :32:14.on the Turkish Government when he sees them tomorrow, that thhs failed

:32:15. > :32:21.coup should not be used as ` pretext for further oppression of pdople who

:32:22. > :32:28.are Democrats? I hope I said that in my opening remarks. The failed

:32:29. > :32:32.uprising must not be used to have perverse consequences along the

:32:33. > :32:37.lines the honourable gentlelan has exchanged -- explained. When it

:32:38. > :32:40.comes to terrorist acts, thd Turkish Government has a right to ddfend

:32:41. > :32:50.itself against those who wotld attack them. I welcome my honourable

:32:51. > :32:55.friend to the front bench. We understand that the arrest of

:32:56. > :32:59.thousands of judges is very difficult to characterise as being a

:33:00. > :33:02.proportionate response to an act however outrageous and that Turkey's

:33:03. > :33:09.membership of the Council of Europe must hang in the balance if it does

:33:10. > :33:12.not respect the independencd and judiciary? He is pointing ott the

:33:13. > :33:16.potential consequences of stch courses of action in which ht is too

:33:17. > :33:19.early to form a judgment at the moment. It is true to say that in

:33:20. > :33:25.order to have a functioning judiciary, you need judges `nd we

:33:26. > :33:28.look forward to seeing if there is a functioning judiciary and

:33:29. > :33:35.independent judiciary that can properly apply the rule of law. I

:33:36. > :33:46.also welcome the Minister to his place. EU Commissioner has dxpressed

:33:47. > :33:50.concern that President Erdogan had a list of enemies. This suggested

:33:51. > :33:56.Turkey's response is predic`ted on mirrors that the trend of

:33:57. > :34:00.suppression of speech, Civil Liberties, putting down polhtical

:34:01. > :34:05.opponents and the brutal war on the Kurds in recent years. When the

:34:06. > :34:10.Minister impress some President Erdogan Leopoldo of human rhghts and

:34:11. > :34:16.the rule of law is important? Yes, I will. Three days after this

:34:17. > :34:20.attempted coup, it is inevitable there will be lots of speculative

:34:21. > :34:23.judgments about what was pl`nned, preplanned, whether there w`s a

:34:24. > :34:27.previous list and things like that. It is impossible to know, which is

:34:28. > :34:32.one of the reasons I look forward to visiting but when it comes to human

:34:33. > :34:35.rights and equal and proper treatment of all citizens in Turkey,

:34:36. > :34:44.that is something for which we will speak out very strongly indded. I

:34:45. > :34:48.welcome my right honourable friend to his front position and hd brings

:34:49. > :34:51.experience and intellect and will serve the country well. The Nato

:34:52. > :34:55.Parliamentary Assembly annu`l session is due to take placd in

:34:56. > :34:58.Istanbul this November. Would he agree with me that unless the

:34:59. > :35:02.security situation becomes untenable, that this should go ahead

:35:03. > :35:06.in Istanbul because despite the difficulties that may be he`ding

:35:07. > :35:11.where Turkey is heading, will be far better to stay that from st`ying in

:35:12. > :35:19.organisations like Nato rather than excelling them? May I commend my

:35:20. > :35:23.honourable friend for what he has said. One of the most important ways

:35:24. > :35:31.in which Turkey can be engaged and persuaded is through the form of

:35:32. > :35:37.Nato. We wish Turkey to rem`in a fall and compliant member of Nato

:35:38. > :35:40.and by that meeting, continting as my honourable friend suggests, I

:35:41. > :35:44.would hope it will provide ` powerful programme -- platform for

:35:45. > :35:53.bringing the positive developments we wish to see. Turkey is ddmocratic

:35:54. > :35:59.but elections have shown it has become authoritarian. How concerned

:36:00. > :36:04.is he that President erred `gain will use this coup as a blank cheque

:36:05. > :36:10.to go against any or all of his opponents and given the fact that

:36:11. > :36:15.the UK is leaving the Europdan Union, we should be concern that

:36:16. > :36:19.Turkey gets its wishes and becomes a member. If the death penaltx is

:36:20. > :36:24.introduced, canny make it ldd to President Erdogan on his visit to

:36:25. > :36:31.mark that it will negate anx ambitions they have in that

:36:32. > :36:35.direction? If Turkey were to reintroduce the death penalty, it

:36:36. > :36:42.would be disqualifying itself from membership or future membership of

:36:43. > :36:46.the EU. In that sense, it would be a self-defeating act and against the

:36:47. > :36:49.objective he has described off potentially than joining thd EU In

:36:50. > :36:53.terms of the other questions he asked, I largely answered them in

:36:54. > :37:00.the questions that have alrdady been put to me. Can I congratulate my

:37:01. > :37:06.right honourable friend and his colleagues are appointments. Turkey

:37:07. > :37:10.is a major Nato ally and partner. How is it then that we appe`r to

:37:11. > :37:14.have been completely blindshded by this military coup and what can be

:37:15. > :37:20.done with our partners to ilprove their situation awareness? Hn a

:37:21. > :37:25.troubled country with presstres of that sort, when their own Government

:37:26. > :37:29.are completely blindsided, ht is probably not surprising that we were

:37:30. > :37:34.unaware that this was going to happen. I would put it to mx

:37:35. > :37:40.honourable friend that therd may have been nobody across the world,

:37:41. > :37:46.whatever the scope of intelligence, who had firmly predicted th`t this

:37:47. > :37:51.was going to happen on Frid`y night. I know the Minister will impress on

:37:52. > :37:54.President Erdogan how important it is that regardless of how sdrious an

:37:55. > :38:01.offence and risk accused of committing, the most serious to --

:38:02. > :38:06.alleged offence is to get a fair trial. What practical help will he

:38:07. > :38:09.be offering to the Turkish Government to make sure anyone who

:38:10. > :38:15.has been arrested and is gohng to be put on trial gets a fair trhal in

:38:16. > :38:20.accordance with the proper rule of law? The most practical influence we

:38:21. > :38:26.can have on this is to join with like-minded countries and m`ke our

:38:27. > :38:29.views very clear collectively, be it through the EU or other fortms which

:38:30. > :38:36.joined together countries lhke our allies in the US. I think the

:38:37. > :38:39.collective and singular voice calling for the upholding of the

:38:40. > :38:44.rule of law and the proper functioning of a democratic state is

:38:45. > :38:48.what we can most effectivelx do at this early stage. The point about

:38:49. > :38:52.Nato has already been made. The long-term objective of them wishing

:38:53. > :38:56.to join the EU has already been made and I hope that bilateral

:38:57. > :39:00.discussions, the likes of which I hope to have tomorrow, will also

:39:01. > :39:06.impress on them exactly the point the honourable gentleman has put the

:39:07. > :39:10.House. Can I also congratul`te the Minister on his appointment. Could I

:39:11. > :39:15.ask him to say a little bit more about the fact that we know the

:39:16. > :39:19.Kurdish people have had hum`n rights abuses increasing over time but also

:39:20. > :39:24.play such an important role in the fight against Daesh and well let --

:39:25. > :39:27.whether the Minister will bd pointing that out in his

:39:28. > :39:32.conversations tomorrow and what more he will be saying about that? The

:39:33. > :39:38.honourable lady has raised ` very important point because the UK and

:39:39. > :39:41.Turkey work in close partnership to stop extremist travellers from

:39:42. > :39:45.reaching Iraq and Syria, involving practical cooperation betwedn our

:39:46. > :39:50.police and security forces. We want this to continue, we hope it will

:39:51. > :39:52.continue and we stand ready to help them in any way we can during this

:39:53. > :40:04.difficult period. The Minister referred to thd order

:40:05. > :40:09.being restored, but we know that President Erdogan hand that is a

:40:10. > :40:13.dark concept as the experience of religious, ethnic and regional,

:40:14. > :40:17.journalists and human rights activists show. If the Government is

:40:18. > :40:21.going to communicate strongly to the Government that this coup should not

:40:22. > :40:25.be used for a carnival of regression, will he reinforce that

:40:26. > :40:32.by direct engagement with the democratic opposition in Turkey and

:40:33. > :40:39.with rights activists there as well? It's the policy of the Unitdd

:40:40. > :40:44.Kingdom engage across all p`rties within Turkey. I think you should be

:40:45. > :40:48.aware of the EU foreign aff`irs Council statement yesterday, which

:40:49. > :40:52.condemned the coup and it wdlcomed the common position of all of the

:40:53. > :40:58.Buttercup parties in support of Turkey's democracy. -- Turkdy

:40:59. > :41:07.parties. One of the aforementioned ironies of this situation is Foreign

:41:08. > :41:11.Secretary published a poem `bout President Erdogan. That is the glory

:41:12. > :41:16.of our democracy but is it hs serious point if someone published a

:41:17. > :41:21.similar poll in Turkey, thex might be subject to arrest. What hs the

:41:22. > :41:26.Government going to do to ensure free speech is preserved, even in

:41:27. > :41:31.the situation? I think exactly as I have been explaining in the course

:41:32. > :41:38.of what is nearly an hour, Lr Speaker. We have two apply the

:41:39. > :41:42.maximum diplomatic pressure we can, both bilaterally and multil`terally.

:41:43. > :41:47.That is something we will continue to do and it is also about

:41:48. > :41:52.relationships and persuasion and I want is to use the Foreign

:41:53. > :41:59.Secretary, but I happened as -- and happy to say we are getting an

:42:00. > :42:04.extremely well. Many thanks, Mr Speaker. Warm congratulations to the

:42:05. > :42:08.Minister on his elevated role. What discussions has a had with

:42:09. > :42:13.colleagues on the Department for International Development to ensure

:42:14. > :42:20.the safety provisions for rdfugees, including humanity aid arrangements?

:42:21. > :42:26.We speak regularly to the Mhnisters. I have not personally had any direct

:42:27. > :42:30.conversations as I have onlx been on the drop of 48 hours. Prompted by

:42:31. > :42:40.the wisdom of the honourabld lady, may I ensure her I will do so at the

:42:41. > :42:43.earliest opportunity. Thank you Can I also congratulate the honourable

:42:44. > :42:47.gentleman and thank you for your statement. There is much concern

:42:48. > :42:53.over human rights abuses before the coup. In the recent coup thdre has

:42:54. > :43:00.been attacks on Christian churches. Can I ask the Minister to bring the

:43:01. > :43:06.attention of Christians and ethnic minorities and the attacks on their

:43:07. > :43:10.properties and person in Turkey Mr Speaker, we strongly encour`ge

:43:11. > :43:14.Turkey to continue to work towards the full protection of fund`mental

:43:15. > :43:19.rights, especially in the areas of minority rights, freedom of religion

:43:20. > :43:24.and freedom of expression. We will continue to do so and I fully take

:43:25. > :43:26.on board the point the honotrable gentleman has made about Christians

:43:27. > :43:35.in Turkey and needing to protect them. Thank you. Can I also add to

:43:36. > :43:39.my warm congratulations on his appointment and express my hope he

:43:40. > :43:43.will bring an enlightened perspective to some aspects of our

:43:44. > :43:50.foreign policy. At 4:30pm today I was due to meet a member of the

:43:51. > :43:54.Turkish parliament of Istanbul and the social democratic opposhtion

:43:55. > :43:58.party. Obviously, he has bedn unable to make that meeting but he has told

:43:59. > :44:03.me his extreme concern that many members of that party I now being

:44:04. > :44:07.rounded up and detained by the Turkish authorities, having nothing

:44:08. > :44:12.whatsoever with this attempted to. Can I ask him to make it cldar to

:44:13. > :44:17.President Erdogan and the atthority is that this country will not

:44:18. > :44:21.tolerate the repression of Democratic parties in their country,

:44:22. > :44:26.whose only misdemeanour is to criticise the Government. The

:44:27. > :44:31.honourable gentleman speaks very passionately and forcefully on this.

:44:32. > :44:35.I fully understand what he hs saying and that is why our ambassador and

:44:36. > :44:40.all of our Embassy team are watching very closely exactly what is

:44:41. > :44:43.happening to democratic parties and we are engaging across the whole

:44:44. > :44:50.spectrum of political involvement, to make sure we know exactlx what is

:44:51. > :44:57.going on and we can make our voice heard accordingly. A point of order.

:44:58. > :45:01.During an urgent question it was implied by the Tory benches that the

:45:02. > :45:06.Foreign Secretary was abroad representing this country's

:45:07. > :45:11.interests. Yes, it was. Is ht possible we could fit a loc`tional

:45:12. > :45:17.device to the Foreign Secretary a Boris Eakin, which would tell us

:45:18. > :45:28.when he is available to join us here in the Chamber. -- Deacon. H am

:45:29. > :45:36.about to say two things, first, I have no great enthusiast for over

:45:37. > :45:42.zealous surveillance. Secondly, within who soever competent the

:45:43. > :45:49.matter might fall, it is not a prerogative of the chair, btt I have

:45:50. > :45:54.a sense and I am sure he want to exception to me saying this but on

:45:55. > :45:57.this occasion his enquiry w`s substantially rhetorical and he was

:45:58. > :46:09.more interested in what he had to say to me then in anything H might

:46:10. > :46:14.have to say to him. Point of order from the man in the cream stit.

:46:15. > :46:18.Could you advise me how I m`y be able to put on record that the House

:46:19. > :46:27.has been brilliantly served in the Minister at the dispatch box

:46:28. > :46:32.answering the questions. Thd honourable gentleman is in some

:46:33. > :46:44.danger of rising in the House's leak table of colleagues who specialise

:46:45. > :46:54.in complementary remarks. There is a fine line between being

:46:55. > :47:06.complementary and being Orientalists. -- may I suggdst he

:47:07. > :47:14.might have a word with his right honourable friend of the dangers of

:47:15. > :47:26.overindulgence in that regard. We will leave it there for tod`y.

:47:27. > :47:34.Order. Can I thank all colldagues were taking part and very shncerely

:47:35. > :47:38.can I thank the right honourable gentleman for attending so

:47:39. > :47:43.courteously and with such good humour from the enquiries of

:47:44. > :47:50.colleagues from across this house. Ten minute rule Motion. Thank you,

:47:51. > :47:55.Mr Speaker. I beg to move that leave be given to bring in a bill to

:47:56. > :48:03.require the Revenue and Customs to record income tax revenue whether PE

:48:04. > :48:11.is holding a conscientious objection to spending on defence purposes and

:48:12. > :48:15.reports to Parliament. For the Treasury to take account of what

:48:16. > :48:22.proportions such self certification incomes black incomes in applying

:48:23. > :48:26.estimates. The central purpose of this bill is to give taxpaydrs who

:48:27. > :48:34.have a conscientious objecthon to war, the right to direct a

:48:35. > :48:38.non-military security fund, the proportion of their taxes which

:48:39. > :48:43.would otherwise be spent on military purposes. Mr Speaker, 100 ydars ago

:48:44. > :48:49.during the height of World War I, Britain became the first cotntry in

:48:50. > :48:54.the world to make the legal right of conscientious objection avahlable to

:48:55. > :48:59.all British subjects. In 1960 military service act simmer till

:49:00. > :49:04.years they claimed the right for men to die for their country, whilst

:49:05. > :49:09.also granted the right of conscientious objection in Britain

:49:10. > :49:15.for the first time thousands of men, including my grand fathers

:49:16. > :49:21.registered as objecting on the grounds of conscience. Some

:49:22. > :49:26.conscientious objectors, like my grandfathers, took up alternative

:49:27. > :49:30.services like driving ambul`nces. Others thought they could t`ke no

:49:31. > :49:35.part in any activity connected to the war and they were imprisoned.

:49:36. > :49:43.What linked them all was absolute determination to be true to their

:49:44. > :49:47.despite marginalisation. Since 916, the rights of conscientious

:49:48. > :49:52.objection has been recognisdd in every significant international

:49:53. > :49:56.treaty. The UN human rights, the UN declaration of human rights and the

:49:57. > :50:01.British Human Rights Act, the all testify that everyone has the right

:50:02. > :50:07.to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. Mr Speaker, the past

:50:08. > :50:13.100 years has seen immense progress in the democratisation of w`r.

:50:14. > :50:20.Moderate walls are not alwaxs fought with conscript armies but rdly on

:50:21. > :50:26.high-tech weapons. Security is supposedly maintained with the

:50:27. > :50:32.ideology of deterrence. In short, war is waged with money, rather than

:50:33. > :50:38.manpower and funded by UK t`xpayers. Yesterday this parliament voted to

:50:39. > :50:42.support the nuclear deterrent at the cost of ?30 billion. The law as it

:50:43. > :50:46.stands prevents many in acthng in accordance with their own conscience

:50:47. > :50:57.as their tax money is being spent in two on armed conflict which they

:50:58. > :51:01.object to. Some equate paying with doing it themselves. These few

:51:02. > :51:10.thousand people who are facdd with two options, either keeping the

:51:11. > :51:15.income below the taxable level as a lady I met outside has done all her

:51:16. > :51:20.working life. Alternatively, they can't withhold a proportion of their

:51:21. > :51:24.tax and face was occasion and bankruptcy. There is no othdr

:51:25. > :51:29.alternative and bright object. I would like to thank the campaigning

:51:30. > :51:36.organisation conscience, taxing the peace, not war in helping md compile

:51:37. > :51:39.this bill. They have been compiling a list of modern conscientious

:51:40. > :51:47.objectors who have been writing statements of conscience. One of

:51:48. > :51:53.these conscientious objectors has said we have seen increasingly

:51:54. > :51:59.brittle and far reaching wards, massive death and replacement of the

:52:00. > :52:02.dozens, trauma and injury to our soldiers, as well as environmental

:52:03. > :52:08.destruction. As a GP I work every day for the health and well,being of

:52:09. > :52:14.my patients and as a taxpaydr I must for the people of the UK and

:52:15. > :52:18.elsewhere. I insist, she gods on, on the rights of a conscientiots

:52:19. > :52:24.objector for my taxes to be used to forge peace and not to be used on

:52:25. > :52:28.the mechanisms of war. Mr Speaker, if conscientious objector c`n be

:52:29. > :52:36.recognised in wartime, why not peace time, to? Today the rights of

:52:37. > :52:40.conscientious objectors are being debated across the world. Britain

:52:41. > :52:47.would be setting in world president and demonstrating ourselves in

:52:48. > :52:50.leader in human rights and freedoms. Those who object for funding water

:52:51. > :52:54.still want to contribute to the security of our country and the

:52:55. > :53:01.well-being of our world. Thhs bill calls for a mechanism for the

:53:02. > :53:04.funding of peace building which would contribute to national

:53:05. > :53:11.security, whilst allowing individuals to pay their tax with a

:53:12. > :53:14.clear conscience. We are not on the granting and individual freddom but

:53:15. > :53:30.also making a substantial effect any more humane foreign fop polhcy.

:53:31. > :53:35.There are a too possible ends. This Government supporting different is

:53:36. > :53:42.commendable. A security and security fund is a cross-party fund `nd was

:53:43. > :53:45.treated by this Government to address causes of international

:53:46. > :53:50.conflicts. Mr Speaker, if Britain were to pass this bill the TK could

:53:51. > :53:54.make the hard-won fight of conscientious objection reldvant to

:53:55. > :53:59.today's society by granting the right for someone not to pax to kill

:54:00. > :54:03.on your behalf. We could take a lead in redefining the common

:54:04. > :54:08.understanding of security, genuine long-term security is not achieved

:54:09. > :54:12.by sophisticated weapons and increased spending on defence but by

:54:13. > :54:18.cooperation, negotiation and shared understanding of the problels that

:54:19. > :54:25.face humanity, poverty, ill health. Mr Speaker, I now wish to move on.

:54:26. > :54:30.Firstly, this bill is not sdeking exemption from paying taxes but

:54:31. > :54:34.allows conscientious objectors to pay their contribution with a clear

:54:35. > :54:35.conscience by investing in non-violent alternatives to war and

:54:36. > :54:51.weaponry. The criticism this bill introducing

:54:52. > :54:59.it is hypothecated. Isn't the sugar tax to be spent on sports position

:55:00. > :55:04.for young people not iPod occasion? What about in Shorey and prdmiums

:55:05. > :55:09.for flood prevention? The UK's most significant form of personal

:55:10. > :55:16.hypothecation would-be gift aid The redirection of personal income tax

:55:17. > :55:22.towards a named charity. Thhs amounted to one billion in 2014 15.

:55:23. > :55:29.Gift aid is widely used by taxpayers are to direct funding to ch`ritable

:55:30. > :55:32.courses that they prefer. Some say this bill would create a Prdsident

:55:33. > :55:39.further pressure groups to petition this house to divert taxes to

:55:40. > :55:44.favourite causes or away from their personal dislikes. Military tax is

:55:45. > :55:48.specifically an issue of conscience, not a political preference. This

:55:49. > :55:54.principle was recognised 100 years ago by him at dusty's Government. I

:55:55. > :56:02.am laying a case for an extdnsion of that right. Finally, the issue of

:56:03. > :56:07.practicality. The administr`tion of the provisions set out on this bill

:56:08. > :56:11.would need a sign declaration to HMRC and the transfer of a

:56:12. > :56:19.calculated sum of money to one named government-controlled fund. The

:56:20. > :56:23.calculations already providdd by HMRC to UK income tax play ,- payers

:56:24. > :56:26.as a matter of course. The destination of a tax receipts will

:56:27. > :56:31.be a single fund from which monies would be drawn from the purposes

:56:32. > :56:34.indicated in the bill. This bill seeks to acknowledge these reasons

:56:35. > :56:41.of conscience when spending money. To spot -- to stop people forcing

:56:42. > :56:44.money to pay for war is that they don't morally agree with and weapons

:56:45. > :56:51.they cannot in all conscience endorse. Let us acknowledge the

:56:52. > :56:55.rights of individuals committed to this by extending the recognition of

:56:56. > :57:00.conscience in regards to war. You get the world you pay for, let's

:57:01. > :57:06.allow the right to pay taxes for peace, not war. I beg to move. The

:57:07. > :57:11.question is the honourable lady have leave to bring in the ill. @s many

:57:12. > :57:17.as are of the opinion, say `ye. To the contrary, no. The ayes have it.

:57:18. > :57:30.Who will prepare and bring hn the bill? Alan Brown, Caroline Lucas,

:57:31. > :57:35.Michele Thomson, Howell Williams, Martyn Day, Kate Green, Liz Southall

:57:36. > :58:25.Roberts and myself. Income tax, non-military spdnding

:58:26. > :58:32.bill. Friday 2nd of December 20 6. The clerk will proceed to rdad each

:58:33. > :58:38.-- orders of the day. Higher education -- Higher Education and

:58:39. > :58:46.Research Bill second reading. The movement has not been selected.

:58:47. > :58:52.Justin Greening. I beg to move that the bill now be read a second time.

:58:53. > :58:56.As the Prime Minister said outside Downing Street last week, this

:58:57. > :59:01.Government wants to give evdrybody, no matter what their background the

:59:02. > :59:05.opportunity to go as far as their talents will take them. A country

:59:06. > :59:10.that works for everyone. Our higher education institutions are crucial

:59:11. > :59:14.to giving people the power to determine their own futures. They

:59:15. > :59:18.present opportunities for individuals to better themsdlves,

:59:19. > :59:23.broaden their knowledge basd sharpen their skills and participatd in a

:59:24. > :59:27.ground -- the ground-breaking research that commit the future

:59:28. > :59:31.bright of everyone. My time at Southampton University was one of

:59:32. > :59:38.the most shaping periods of my life. I should point to my town -, time at

:59:39. > :59:44.defeat as another one of those periods. The chance to go to

:59:45. > :59:49.university was pivot blow -, pivotal to making something of myself. I can

:59:50. > :59:53.point to this telephone box in Kingsbridge, Devon, where I run

:59:54. > :00:00.through to get my A-level rdsults while I was on holiday that year. In

:00:01. > :00:05.that moment, my whole futurd changed for the better. I was the fhrst in

:00:06. > :00:08.my family to go to university and I remember after that call, as going

:00:09. > :00:14.to the pub across the road to celebrate with a drink. Nond of us

:00:15. > :00:19.really knew going -- what going to university would be like to me but

:00:20. > :00:23.we knew it was going to be the best thing and it would improve ly life

:00:24. > :00:29.chances. Opportunity is abott giving young people the freedom to fly

:00:30. > :00:33.Universities are central to that. This party's record in Government on

:00:34. > :00:39.this is one that we can be proud of. We have taken away the limit that

:00:40. > :00:43.was there on student numbers so more people than ever before can benefit

:00:44. > :00:46.from higher education and the participation rate among sttdents

:00:47. > :00:51.from the most disadvantaged backgrounds is that record levels.

:00:52. > :00:55.We put in place the essenti`l funding changes that are pl`ced Al

:00:56. > :01:01.universities on a stable financial footing so that they are resourced

:01:02. > :01:04.the success. We have protected investment in our world-class

:01:05. > :01:08.science base. The universitx that our young people attend somd of the

:01:09. > :01:12.best in the world. We punch well above our weight. With 34

:01:13. > :01:18.institutions ranked in the top 00 and more than twice that nulber in

:01:19. > :01:25.the top 800. There is more to do to make sure everyone can access a

:01:26. > :01:29.high-quality university place and in spite of the progress, we are far

:01:30. > :01:35.from meeting our economy's needs for graduates. This Government hs

:01:36. > :01:39.absolutely determined to support and nurture our universities and ensure

:01:40. > :01:44.they are open to every studdnt who has the potential to benefit from

:01:45. > :01:49.them. Madam Deputy Speaker, the creation of new universities is an

:01:50. > :01:52.undoubted force for good both academically and economically.

:01:53. > :01:55.Recent research by the London School of economics shows doubling the

:01:56. > :02:02.number of universities per Capita could mean a 4% rise in futtre GDP

:02:03. > :02:06.per Capita also. The current system for creating universities c`n feel

:02:07. > :02:11.highly restricted with new providers requiring the backing of an

:02:12. > :02:15.incumbent institution to become eligible to award its own ddgrees.

:02:16. > :02:20.This bill levels that playing field by laying the foundations for a new

:02:21. > :02:25.system where it will be cle`rer simpler and quicker to establish

:02:26. > :02:29.high-quality new providers. I am pleased that in May, the melber for

:02:30. > :02:33.Wallasey confirmed the opposition do not object to broadening out choice

:02:34. > :02:37.for students by expanding their higher education sector. Thdse

:02:38. > :02:45.reforms which are the first since the 1980s, are how we maint`in the

:02:46. > :02:49.world-class reputation of otr higher education institutions. Quality will

:02:50. > :02:52.be built in at every stage, from the way we regulate new entrants to how

:02:53. > :02:58.we deal with poor quality providers already in the system. I recognise

:02:59. > :03:02.there have been concerns about the quality of new providers, that they

:03:03. > :03:06.can't possibly be as good as what we already have. It is not the first

:03:07. > :03:13.time that arguments like th`t have been made. The same arguments were

:03:14. > :03:19.made back then when the new universities were being est`blished

:03:20. > :03:21.before the First World War. Today, Sheffield, Birmingham and

:03:22. > :03:27.Manchester, which I've visited recently in my previous rold, our

:03:28. > :03:33.world-class universities. This quality argument was made about the

:03:34. > :03:37.1960s expansion but in four of the past ten years, the Sunday Times

:03:38. > :03:42.award for University of the year has gone to one founded in that very

:03:43. > :03:48.period. Currently the University of Surrey. In 1992, it was a

:03:49. > :03:52.Conservative Government that had the vision to set free the polytechnics

:03:53. > :03:56.to be able to become universities and now we are making it possible

:03:57. > :03:59.for a whole new generation of universities to help us extdnd

:04:00. > :04:07.access to higher education for young access to higher education for young

:04:08. > :04:09.people across our country. H welcome the Secretary of State to hdr new

:04:10. > :04:15.position and look forward to working with her over the next hopefully few

:04:16. > :04:22.years. Would she not agree that one aspect of the new polytechnhc/

:04:23. > :04:28.universities and post-war w`s that students were not asked to

:04:29. > :04:34.or take the University educ`tion or take the University educ`tion

:04:35. > :04:38.forward? I recognise the SNP take a very different view on this. The

:04:39. > :04:44.reality is the choice that her party has made is having fewer sttdents

:04:45. > :04:48.are able to go to universitx in Scotland. One in five students in

:04:49. > :04:52.Scotland who apply for a pl`ce and have the grace to get a place can go

:04:53. > :04:56.because the funding isn't there to have the place available for them.

:04:57. > :05:00.That is a choice that her Government in Scotland can make that it is not

:05:01. > :05:05.a choice this Government wants to make. We have to make sure that

:05:06. > :05:09.places are there for students with the potential and talent to be able

:05:10. > :05:13.to make their way in life, putting a cap on opportunity and a cap on

:05:14. > :05:19.potential isn't just bad for students, it is bad for our country

:05:20. > :05:24.more broadly. Can I congrattlate my right honourable friend on ` this

:05:25. > :05:29.role. She has been an outst`nding advocate for every role she has had

:05:30. > :05:33.in front line politics. Is ht not the case that following on from the

:05:34. > :05:36.introduction of fees, we have seen more students from working class and

:05:37. > :05:41.poor backgrounds go to univdrsity and in England and Wales whhle in

:05:42. > :05:45.Scotland educational inequality has worsened to the extent that the

:05:46. > :05:52.First Minister of Scotland had to sack her education it -- Edtcation

:05:53. > :05:57.Secretary? Since 2009, studdnts from a disadvantaged background hn

:05:58. > :06:05.England are now 36% more likely to be going to university. It hs not

:06:06. > :06:09.good enough to come with excuses for great quality young people who have

:06:10. > :06:12.the grades and be able to tdll them that they can go to univershty

:06:13. > :06:17.because the Government that they are unfortunately living in the country

:06:18. > :06:20.which it is running, is not prepared to take decisions to get funding to

:06:21. > :06:26.get into a sector to create the places that they need. We are

:06:27. > :06:31.prepared to do that. I want to come back to this bill because it will be

:06:32. > :06:35.about opening up this sector to enable new providers to entdr, to

:06:36. > :06:40.create those extra places that our young people need. There will be

:06:41. > :06:46.rigorous tests that are part of this bill for new providers alongside

:06:47. > :06:50.those that already exist looking at quality and making sure fin`ncial

:06:51. > :06:56.stability are provided and they will be in place. We are interested in

:06:57. > :07:00.enhancing the world-class rdputation of our universities in creating

:07:01. > :07:06.opportunity for all rather than expansion for its sake. I whll give

:07:07. > :07:10.way. I offer her huge congratulations on her new role

:07:11. > :07:14.Isn't the case that the ill will move us into a new era in that we

:07:15. > :07:19.will actually be much more focused on giving our students up for the

:07:20. > :07:23.workplace and linking with business to provide the exact course is that

:07:24. > :07:31.they need to skill up our pdople for the future? She is right. The good

:07:32. > :07:35.news is that we expect many and most of the jobs created to be

:07:36. > :07:39.graduate-level jobs. Our economy is creating opportunity but we need to

:07:40. > :07:42.make sure that our young people are in a position to take those

:07:43. > :07:48.opportunities that are being created for them. This is part of why this

:07:49. > :07:51.bill is absolutely critical and indeed wherever a person is

:07:52. > :07:55.studying, whatever they are studying, part of how they `re able

:07:56. > :07:59.to succeed is making sure that they get high-quality teaching and that

:08:00. > :08:05.is why we are delivering on the Government's manifesto pledge to be

:08:06. > :08:09.able to lament a new teaching excellence framework for

:08:10. > :08:15.universities. May I congrattlate the honourable lady to her new job. I

:08:16. > :08:18.was the first of my family to go to university. Ashfield has ond of the

:08:19. > :08:23.lowest number of 18-year-olds getting to university in thd whole

:08:24. > :08:26.country. The Secretary of State shares jewels to see opporttnities

:08:27. > :08:33.for people from ordinary backgrounds but how will scrapping Brock --

:08:34. > :08:39.scrapping grants help them? I understood the question. Thd bottom

:08:40. > :08:43.line is the evidence base is we are getting more young people going to

:08:44. > :08:50.university than ever before but a higher proportion of them are from

:08:51. > :08:54.disadvantaged backgrounds. How young people -- we do our young pdople no

:08:55. > :08:58.disservice by having a systdm that isn't able to be financed to create

:08:59. > :09:01.places for young people. I will make progress because it is important

:09:02. > :09:05.that I cover this teaching excellence framework which hs at the

:09:06. > :09:11.heart of this bill. This fr`mework will assess and drive up qu`lity by

:09:12. > :09:15.providing reputational and financial incentives the success which is a

:09:16. > :09:18.proven approach to ensuring high standards that are universities

:09:19. > :09:23.This approach we are introdtcing is based on what we have learndd from

:09:24. > :09:25.our experience because it w`s a Conservative Government that

:09:26. > :09:32.introduced funding for rese`rch on the basis of quality. It is now a

:09:33. > :09:35.widely accepted way of workhng. The research excellence framework is

:09:36. > :09:40.regarded globally as the gold standard for institutional research.

:09:41. > :09:44.By extending this principle to teaching, we can now ensure that

:09:45. > :09:50.British higher education relains in the world's elite and that students

:09:51. > :09:51.at all universities receive the quality teaching they have dvery

:09:52. > :10:03.right to expect. Let me be clear, the bill does not

:10:04. > :10:08.raise tuition fees or changd current procedures, setting the maxhmum

:10:09. > :10:12.tuition fee cap. This will rightly continue to require the samd level

:10:13. > :10:18.of scrutiny as before. The bill will allow the maximum fee cap to keep

:10:19. > :10:24.pace with inflation, somethhng the last Labour Government allowed since

:10:25. > :10:28.2007. What we are seeing to high-quality providers is you can't

:10:29. > :10:34.access fees up to a maximum fee cap if and only if you can demonstrate

:10:35. > :10:41.your providing high quality teaching and you have an agreed access and

:10:42. > :10:48.participation plan in place. This allows the fee cap to be set below

:10:49. > :10:52.the maximum. Those providers that are not meeting the standards will

:10:53. > :10:57.have to charge fees beneath the maximum fee cap and the maxhmum fee

:10:58. > :11:02.cap will not increase in re`l terms. Our proposal to maintain thd real

:11:03. > :11:05.value of the maximum fee cap but only with those with excelldnt

:11:06. > :11:12.teaching is backed by those who know the sector best, universitids UK

:11:13. > :11:16.have described this approach as balanced and sustainable. The

:11:17. > :11:21.argument he named the real value of the maximum fee cap is, the words,

:11:22. > :11:27.essential to allow universities to continue to deed between active

:11:28. > :11:34.deliver a quality experiencd for students. -- deliver. I congratulate

:11:35. > :11:40.the Secretary of State for her appointment. Does she not agree that

:11:41. > :11:44.there are many students and graduates who have gone through that

:11:45. > :11:48.?9,000 system who do not fedl that level of tuition fee has bedn

:11:49. > :11:53.justified and they have not seen the benefits of the decision th`t this

:11:54. > :11:58.house took some years ago. H think the points he raises are very

:11:59. > :12:05.important. First of all, thd real terror ability of the maximtm fee to

:12:06. > :12:11.keep up with inflation is enabling 12 million pounds to investlent to

:12:12. > :12:16.get into higher education. This idea of making sure the students get

:12:17. > :12:20.value and that teaching is of high quality is critical, which hs why

:12:21. > :12:25.the teaching excellence fralework is such an important part of this bill.

:12:26. > :12:29.I will come onto the role of the office for student sharply. It is

:12:30. > :12:33.another area of the Bill whhch we are putting students at the heart of

:12:34. > :12:38.our higher education policy, as they should be. Mr Speaker, if I turned

:12:39. > :12:46.the office for students now. It does put student's at the heart of the

:12:47. > :12:49.bill. That offers from studdnts will be the principal regulator for

:12:50. > :12:55.higher education. It will h`ve a legal duty requiring it to have

:12:56. > :13:00.choice and the entrance of students, taxpayers and it will look `cross

:13:01. > :13:03.higher education as a whole with responsibility for monitoring

:13:04. > :13:07.financial stability, efficidncy and the overall health of the sdctor.

:13:08. > :13:11.The current system is that we have today was really designed for an era

:13:12. > :13:16.of direct Government funding of higher education, where fewdr people

:13:17. > :13:21.attended university. Higher education is no longer for the

:13:22. > :13:25.privileged elite. We lifted the limit there had been on student

:13:26. > :13:29.numbers, meaning that more people than ever before have been `ble to

:13:30. > :13:34.benefit from a university education and now a new framework needs to

:13:35. > :13:38.reflect this. The office for students will create a new single

:13:39. > :13:41.register of higher education providers, replacing the current

:13:42. > :13:46.fragmented system and ensurhng a single route into the sector. The

:13:47. > :13:51.simpler system means this bhll will reduce costs in the sector `nd

:13:52. > :13:59.contribute to the D regulatory agenda and makes sure it is clear

:14:00. > :14:03.and fear. Only those on the register will get degree awarding powers and

:14:04. > :14:09.charge fees that attract sttdent loans. These providers will have to

:14:10. > :14:12.comply with provisions and hnclude financial stability and the quality

:14:13. > :14:16.of their provision. The offhce first to them to have powers to ilpose

:14:17. > :14:26.additional provisions around access and participation, students from

:14:27. > :14:31.backgrounds and the caps. I give way. I am grateful to let md join in

:14:32. > :14:37.with the congratulations around her appointment. Why isn't therd a duty

:14:38. > :14:41.on the new office for students to promote collaboration. The crisis we

:14:42. > :14:44.are confronted with around technical education, not higher education and

:14:45. > :14:49.if we want to grow the numbdr of students who are on apprenthceships

:14:50. > :14:53.then we need to transform the amount of integration and collabor`tion

:14:54. > :14:57.there is, particularly betwden further education and higher

:14:58. > :15:01.education. Why is that systdm not being encouraged at the heart of the

:15:02. > :15:08.new office for students custom that mac? It is an important point. I

:15:09. > :15:13.want universities to continte to work hard in local communithes that

:15:14. > :15:17.they are part of to encourage a pipeline of children who cole

:15:18. > :15:22.through and are able to apply, who are going to see the disadv`ntage of

:15:23. > :15:28.university students rising then that is incredibly important. Within the

:15:29. > :15:32.bill, there is an element of it that does tackle collaboration whth UK

:15:33. > :15:37.research innovation, which H will come onto shortly. Clearly, there is

:15:38. > :15:42.also time for this to be debated. I agree with the sentiment of what he

:15:43. > :15:45.is saying and it is important that universities get outside of their

:15:46. > :15:51.campuses and engage with local communities and encourage young

:15:52. > :15:55.people. I am grateful for the Secretary of State and welcome her.

:15:56. > :15:59.Before she moves off the subject of collaboration, I do think there is a

:16:00. > :16:07.disappointment from my own perspective that there is no mention

:16:08. > :16:09.in the Bill about collaboration with the new combined authorities,

:16:10. > :16:13.particularly those combined authorities like in greater

:16:14. > :16:20.Manchester that are to take on some of the skills agenda. What does she

:16:21. > :16:24.think is the role of local Government and the local enterprise

:16:25. > :16:28.partnership in making sure higher education is part and parcel of that

:16:29. > :16:35.partnership for a better local economy? I agree with him that these

:16:36. > :16:41.different parties apps on the need to work together at your local

:16:42. > :16:46.level. I have the universitx in my constituency and that reachds out to

:16:47. > :16:52.the local committee and has a high proportion of students taking and

:16:53. > :16:56.studying degrees there that are from a more disadvantaged background He

:16:57. > :17:01.is right about that. I am cdrtainly determined to make sure the higher

:17:02. > :17:04.education sector does play hts role in committees more broadly. He

:17:05. > :17:09.talked about the bill particularly. I do not think it needs to be

:17:10. > :17:14.codified for collaboration to happen. Again, I would reitdrate

:17:15. > :17:18.that I agree with the sentilents of what he has just said. If I could

:17:19. > :17:27.just make more progress, Madame debt to Peter. It is important that I

:17:28. > :17:32.inform the House. -- Madam Deputy Speaker. How it will regulate

:17:33. > :17:40.providers. If the provider breaches its registration the Oval F S will

:17:41. > :17:45.have a range of sanctions including monetary penalties and in extreme

:17:46. > :17:53.cases D regulating providers to be able to safeguard the end trust of

:17:54. > :17:59.students. -- interest. Our proposals have the support of those who know

:18:00. > :18:04.best. Professor Simon Gaskell, the chair of the task force that

:18:05. > :18:07.reviewed the sector who comlented, there have been a number of

:18:08. > :18:13.significant changes to the funding and the number of providers

:18:14. > :18:17.providing courses. It has to keep pace with these developments of

:18:18. > :18:22.confidence and our internathonal reputation are to be maintahned

:18:23. > :18:28.Only today the University Alliance described this bill, the raft that

:18:29. > :18:33.can take us to calm waters. I will give way. She has emphasised the

:18:34. > :18:39.need for collaboration and the clause says that we need to increase

:18:40. > :18:42.competition in the interest of students and employers. Could she

:18:43. > :18:46.identify collaboration is the interest of students and employers.

:18:47. > :18:52.Why is she objecting to havd this on the Bill? Madam Deputy Speaker, I

:18:53. > :18:57.feel like we are already delving into the standing Bill commhttee

:18:58. > :19:01.debate that will take place on this clause. I welcome the engagdment

:19:02. > :19:05.with this bill. It is important to get it right and it is in the back

:19:06. > :19:09.and important debate we will be having first to make sure this is

:19:10. > :19:14.properly structured and I look forward to the debates once

:19:15. > :19:18.Parliament comes back after recess. I will take one more intervdntion

:19:19. > :19:24.before making some progress. I give way. I thank the Secretary of State

:19:25. > :19:29.and I welcome her to her new post and look forward to future leetings

:19:30. > :19:35.and the Scottish education system being more accurate. Could H provide

:19:36. > :19:40.some insight into one aspect of collaboration which could bd

:19:41. > :19:43.strengthened. 25% of all sttdents entering higher education in

:19:44. > :19:50.Scotland do so through the colic sector. Many of these are in

:19:51. > :19:56.collaborative arrangement is with universities, the two plus two

:19:57. > :20:01.arrangement as we call them. That should be something that thd English

:20:02. > :20:05.system could well have a look at. He makes a further point on thd need

:20:06. > :20:10.for universities to be part of their product amenities and indeed it is

:20:11. > :20:17.worth me setting out how much I welcome the further education brief

:20:18. > :20:24.is now part of a broader reform for education brief, which means it is

:20:25. > :20:28.well placed to look across the piece at how these institutions that help

:20:29. > :20:33.develop our young people work effectively together as a c`ll, as

:20:34. > :20:37.well as with broader committees Thanks to the reform that wd

:20:38. > :20:42.introduced in the last Parlhament, the entry rates for young students

:20:43. > :20:48.from a disadvantaged background are at a record level. In the fhnal year

:20:49. > :20:54.of the last Labour Government it was around 14%. Today, it stands at

:20:55. > :20:56.almost 90% of students going to university who are from mord

:20:57. > :21:02.disadvantaged background. Wd do need to go further. As the Prime Minister

:21:03. > :21:07.said last week, this Governlent will do everything we can to help

:21:08. > :21:11.everybody to go as far as your talents will take you. This

:21:12. > :21:14.legislation supports the kex principle that higher education

:21:15. > :21:20.should be open to all who h`ve the potential to benefit from it. It's

:21:21. > :21:24.got to be about more than jtst accessing opportunity. Whilst

:21:25. > :21:27.application rates for students from disadvantaged backgrounds are at

:21:28. > :21:32.record levels, we want to m`ke sure the students are supported `cross

:21:33. > :21:38.the whole of the time at unhversity. There are too many disadvantages and

:21:39. > :21:42.who do not complete the courses and universities can and must do more to

:21:43. > :21:45.help them get across the finishing line, so they can not only gain the

:21:46. > :21:54.degree we started the coursd to get but also reap the rewards that come

:21:55. > :21:59.after that. I will give way. I welcome her to her position. Can she

:22:00. > :22:05.tell the House what she thinks are acceptable level of debt is for the

:22:06. > :22:09.graduate. If you look at thd level of tuition fees that have bden

:22:10. > :22:13.introduced and the rates of applications from its advantage

:22:14. > :22:17.students and the numbers of students who are going to university, then

:22:18. > :22:21.these are young people who `re taking a decision to invest in

:22:22. > :22:25.themselves and the believe that would be value for money. This bill

:22:26. > :22:30.is about enabling us to strdngthen that decision further by making sure

:22:31. > :22:33.the teaching that happens in University is underwritten by a

:22:34. > :22:42.teaching excellence framework. I am going to give way. Thank yot. I

:22:43. > :22:46.would like to welcome the honourable lady to her position. I look forward

:22:47. > :22:51.to working with her. The qudstion I would like to ask is we havd

:22:52. > :22:54.discussed many of young disadvantaged, however could you

:22:55. > :23:04.tell us a little hound you `re going to encourage Midge Ure disadvantaged

:23:05. > :23:12.groups, especially women. -, much you are. How could you encotrage

:23:13. > :23:16.that and make progress in that area of nursing, which a lot of women go

:23:17. > :23:22.into after they have had thdir family. There are two areas where

:23:23. > :23:27.the bill could help. One is on transparency and having a clear

:23:28. > :23:30.sense of who is entering and getting through our university systdm. The

:23:31. > :23:37.office for students will have functioned that look at improving

:23:38. > :23:41.transparents transparency to widen participation and improve access.

:23:42. > :23:45.Secondly, some of the finance changes which are freeing up the

:23:46. > :23:50.transfer people who now find it hard to go because they are not `ble to

:23:51. > :23:55.get finance to find the course to be able to do that. I think it can take

:23:56. > :24:01.a step forward in two different ways. We're going to go further .. I

:24:02. > :24:06.will come back shortly. We `re going to go further than Labour ever dared

:24:07. > :24:13.to strengthen access agreemdnts Under this bill institutions who

:24:14. > :24:20.want to charge fees above the basic level and we want to ensure they are

:24:21. > :24:24.doing everything they can to support students from disadvantaged

:24:25. > :24:28.backgrounds throughout the course in order to decrease drop outs and get

:24:29. > :24:40.students into fulfilling careers. I will give way to the honour`ble

:24:41. > :24:43.lady. Enabling students to `ccess higher education one of the students

:24:44. > :24:48.and has not been able to access our Muslim students for whose bdliefs

:24:49. > :25:44.prevents them from taking a loan. We will have transparency and need

:25:45. > :25:48.higher education institutions to provide higher application rates by

:25:49. > :25:59.gender, ethnic background and social economic class. They need to take

:26:00. > :26:02.into account equality of opportunity through the life cycle for

:26:03. > :26:15.disadvantaged students. Not just access. This Bill introduces

:26:16. > :26:22.measures to safeguard students and taxpayers whilst protecting academic

:26:23. > :26:23.freedom. It allows the work this to be independent of Government and the

:26:24. > :26:41.sector as the regulator shotld be. Concentrating regulation with it is

:26:42. > :26:45.needed, ensuring the highest standards are maintained across the

:26:46. > :26:50.sector whilst reducing the regulatory burden on the best

:26:51. > :26:54.performing institutions. If the university is doing well, it should

:26:55. > :27:00.not have to worry about Bul` Cats teething over its shoulder ,-

:27:01. > :27:06.bureaucrats. One issue will be a flexible approach to degree awarding

:27:07. > :27:12.powers. We will move away from the current one size fits all approach

:27:13. > :27:15.which needs smaller specialhst institutions that can demonstrate

:27:16. > :27:20.they can award degrees in any subject and which provide ndw

:27:21. > :27:25.providers, including the best overseas institutions, to spend four

:27:26. > :27:29.years to build up a track rdcord in England irrespective of howdver

:27:30. > :27:34.long-standing record of excdllence is elsewhere. Import is a global

:27:35. > :27:39.academic world. The power in the Bill to the degree awarding powers

:27:40. > :27:43.allow specialist institutions to gain the powers in only the subject

:27:44. > :27:46.areas in which they have an interest, and what they need. It

:27:47. > :27:51.will allow the office for students to give the Greek awarding powers on

:27:52. > :27:54.a probationary basis for institutions that can clearly

:27:55. > :28:02.demonstrate the capability `nd happy credible plan to show they can read

:28:03. > :28:08.the full degree awarding powers As part of this, the OFS will require

:28:09. > :28:12.clear and robust protections for students when granting prob`tionary

:28:13. > :28:17.degree awarding powers. I ghve way to the ordinary gentleman. Hs it

:28:18. > :28:22.higher expectation that manx other great father education colldges who

:28:23. > :28:28.are already providing higher education, will be able to `cquire

:28:29. > :28:36.their own degree awarding skill .. Abilities, any more generously than

:28:37. > :28:41.it is possible? The rule th`t 5 % of students need to be studying on

:28:42. > :28:46.degree courses will remain. In the end, what we are trying to do more

:28:47. > :28:49.broadly with these changes hs to open up the chance for new

:28:50. > :28:55.institutions that are high-puality to be able to join those exhsting

:28:56. > :29:03.high-quality institutions in the education sector to be able to offer

:29:04. > :29:09.degrees... I will give way. She may not have seen the policy adviser

:29:10. > :29:14.self. It was caught on a long lens camera for a briefing into Number

:29:15. > :29:18.Ten, etc the governor's plans to risk giving poor provision for

:29:19. > :29:22.marginal streams, what will she do to mitigate against that risk? This

:29:23. > :29:29.Bill is about ensuring that we have a strong, robust, successful,

:29:30. > :29:33.innovative, high-quality edtcation sector for Britain's young people.

:29:34. > :29:36.He is setting out problems `nd then suggesting we should not brhng

:29:37. > :29:43.forward a Bill to tackle thdm. I will give way to my honourable

:29:44. > :29:48.friend. It does strike me that she has put on quite a lot of good

:29:49. > :29:53.detail, these safeguards th`t should satisfy a reasonable people in this

:29:54. > :29:56.regard. Others will feel it is a closed shop with degree awarding

:29:57. > :30:02.powers and I am glad this Bhll amongst other things will break down

:30:03. > :30:06.that closed shop, which I think is unacceptable, particularly for the

:30:07. > :30:10.global educational provision. We benefit from it and are abld to push

:30:11. > :30:16.out to other parts of the world He is absolutely right. I think for

:30:17. > :30:21.many universities that have spent years steadily working to gdt the

:30:22. > :30:24.own degree awarding powers, these changes are welcome for these

:30:25. > :30:30.institutions. They should not have to wait so long. After this Bill has

:30:31. > :30:35.been passed, they won't. I will give away one last time... I suspect

:30:36. > :30:38.those institutions that havd spent many years and have not got degree

:30:39. > :30:45.awarding powers will feel they have spent lots of time frustrathngly,

:30:46. > :30:49.but will be welcomed by institutions she referred to in years to come. I

:30:50. > :30:52.am sure he is right. I will make more progress because I recognised

:30:53. > :30:57.that there are many people who want to be able to contribute to this

:30:58. > :31:02.debate. I will give way in ` second. It is important for me to briefly

:31:03. > :31:07.set out to the House how thd OFS will be able to act when sttdents

:31:08. > :31:13.and taxpayers are not being well served. And when there are grounds

:31:14. > :31:16.to suspect a series page of the provider's conditions of

:31:17. > :31:23.registration and funding, the powers will have the power to search to

:31:24. > :31:30.provide a safe guard and a court warrant must be gained at fhrst I

:31:31. > :31:32.will give way to the honour`ble gentleman. And then I will try to

:31:33. > :31:39.make some progress through what is a long Bill. I thank the secondary

:31:40. > :31:44.state from giving way. I have got two universities in my constituency,

:31:45. > :31:46.what when she said other institutions sharing these changes.

:31:47. > :31:52.I was not clear what you me`nt by that? I was talking about the

:31:53. > :31:55.changes to degree awarding powers and the fact that for some

:31:56. > :32:00.institutions that currently may feel that this is not a route th`t they

:32:01. > :32:06.would be able to go down, bdcause it is too complex and too long,winded,

:32:07. > :32:13.we are now going to open up the sector to enable great qualhty

:32:14. > :32:19.institutions to think about whether the as well could step into the

:32:20. > :32:22.coming of a tame an institution that can directly award degrees htself,

:32:23. > :32:30.and after that, a further three years to be a cash and insthtution

:32:31. > :32:33.that could be called a univdrsity due to its excellence. It is

:32:34. > :32:37.important for Britain if we are to have a country where the yotng

:32:38. > :32:41.people have places at the high-quality institutions they want

:32:42. > :32:45.but also with a range of different degrees that they want and our

:32:46. > :32:56.economy needs. That we have a high education sector that can... The

:32:57. > :32:58.Bill also enables the OFS to enable registered high quality education

:32:59. > :33:01.providers to happy student protection plan in place. Students

:33:02. > :33:06.will want to know what to expect from the providers of the course

:33:07. > :33:11.cannot be delivered. Some providers currently have student protdction

:33:12. > :33:15.plans in lace. This new reqtirement means that students with all

:33:16. > :33:19.registered providers will bd protected. This Government believes

:33:20. > :33:23.that nobody with the abilitx should be denied a place at university and

:33:24. > :33:29.matters- the first time ever we are providing direct financial support

:33:30. > :33:34.to want to undertake a postgraduate masters study and also direct

:33:35. > :33:40.financial support to post graduate doctoral study and maintenance

:33:41. > :33:44.levels compatible that we ghve to full-time students. Whilst this Bill

:33:45. > :33:49.will make significant improvements to be searched, none of these

:33:50. > :33:53.changes will be delivered bx undermining other routes into highly

:33:54. > :33:56.skilled employment. We are committed to creating 3 billion

:33:57. > :33:59.apprenticeships by 2020 and the Government recently launched the

:34:00. > :34:03.skills plan which was our rdsponse to Lord Sainsbury is independent

:34:04. > :34:10.review of technical education which sets out a radical overhaul of the

:34:11. > :34:13.post-16 skills system. All of these changes will allow young people to

:34:14. > :34:18.make well-informed decisions about their futures, giving them dvery

:34:19. > :34:22.opportunity to achieve their potential and at the same thme

:34:23. > :34:27.improving the quality, relevance and value of learning. I have t`lked a

:34:28. > :34:31.students but the UK is also a world students but the UK is also a world

:34:32. > :34:39.leader in research and innovation. I'd like to return to that briefly.

:34:40. > :34:45.Establishing -- established and emerging countries look on hn envy

:34:46. > :34:50.at the breadth of the search and a track record of turning innovative

:34:51. > :34:52.ideas into life changing and marketable products and services.

:34:53. > :34:56.This Government is already protecting science resource funding

:34:57. > :35:03.at ?4.7 billion which will rise in cash terms every year for the course

:35:04. > :35:10.of Parliament. Also investing in new scientific infrastructure in record

:35:11. > :35:14.scale. Delivering on the schence capital commitment in our m`nifesto.

:35:15. > :35:18.There can be few people that understand the research landscape

:35:19. > :35:24.better than Nobel Prize winning geneticist Sir Paul nurse. @nd aside

:35:25. > :35:29.from being an inspirational example of how social mobility can happen in

:35:30. > :35:32.our country, last year, he `lso completed an independent review of

:35:33. > :35:36.our seven research councils, recommending that the seven existing

:35:37. > :35:41.bodies be brought together hnto one single body. This Bill will make its

:35:42. > :35:44.recommendation for what he called a formal organisation that can support

:35:45. > :35:51.the system to collectively become more than the sum of its parts a

:35:52. > :35:57.reality. I will give way. I thank the Secretary of State for giving

:35:58. > :36:00.way. At the University of Coventry, Birmingham City University `nd the

:36:01. > :36:05.University of Wolverhampton, the launch date partnership to bring

:36:06. > :36:10.together the applied research. They launched a partnership. Will she

:36:11. > :36:14.make sure that the measures and is Bill to implement the neck hs also

:36:15. > :36:20.Paul Merson will support thhs innovative collaboration so as she

:36:21. > :36:26.said, public investment in ` research can add up to more than the

:36:27. > :36:32.sum of its parts. I think this Bill will help in two ways. Not only will

:36:33. > :36:37.it naturally bring the rese`rch councils together under one umbrella

:36:38. > :36:41.organisation but it will also enable that organisation to have a much

:36:42. > :36:46.more powerful voice in developing its links with the business world

:36:47. > :36:51.and community. I know from ly time spent in industry prior to dntering

:36:52. > :36:54.this House, the link between academia and research and btsiness

:36:55. > :36:58.in Britain is strong but it could be strengthened even further when we

:36:59. > :37:01.look forward to how our country can be successful as they navig`te

:37:02. > :37:07.through the Brexit process. Making the most of not only the talent of

:37:08. > :37:12.young people but also the bdst and world class research institttions,

:37:13. > :37:16.and the brains that are in them is absolutely key. What this Bhll is

:37:17. > :37:20.trying to achieve is to bring into being this new body called TK

:37:21. > :37:24.Research and Innovation that will strengthen that strategic approach

:37:25. > :37:28.to future can -- challenges and will maximise the value from this

:37:29. > :37:34.Government's investment of over ?6 billion per year in research and

:37:35. > :37:40.innovation. UK are I will provide a strong and unified voice of the

:37:41. > :37:44.research funding system on the global stage, cementing Britain s

:37:45. > :37:48.world leading position. Yu Pian I and the office students will work

:37:49. > :38:00.closely together to ensure ` coordinated and strategic stpport.

:38:01. > :38:04.Welsh universities... Seven research Council structure. 2% of thd total

:38:05. > :38:10.budget but the population Shia demands by percent. Does shd think

:38:11. > :38:14.that 2% is fair for Welsh universities, what will the new

:38:15. > :38:19.structure do to that situathon? Will it be better for four research

:38:20. > :38:28.councils for the Tour de Fr`nce opponent states of the UK. ,- the

:38:29. > :38:32.four. This is about world bdating research and the money will follow

:38:33. > :38:35.where the excellence as. Thdre's no doubt that there is significant

:38:36. > :38:39.excellence in Wales and that is why there has been significant funding

:38:40. > :38:45.to some of the world-class research taking part in that place of the UK.

:38:46. > :38:49.This Bill is about enabling us, as Sir Paul nurse talked about is to

:38:50. > :38:54.make sure these seven research councils can add up to more by being

:38:55. > :39:01.brought under one umbrella. I want to move on to complete talkhng about

:39:02. > :39:07.how we will address that through this Bill. The Bill will ensure that

:39:08. > :39:09.the UK is equipped to carry out more multidisciplinary research `nd that

:39:10. > :39:17.they can better respond with agility and flexibility to some of those

:39:18. > :39:23.latest research challenges. By bringing in the UK into UKRH, we

:39:24. > :39:26.will be able to harness the opportunities across businesses so

:39:27. > :39:31.that business led innovation and world-class research can better come

:39:32. > :39:34.together, making sure that we translate our world-class knowledge

:39:35. > :39:38.into world-class innovation. I will make some progress. In the TK will

:39:39. > :39:42.retain its own individual ftnding stream and continue its support for

:39:43. > :39:50.business led technology and innovation. And protecting ` law for

:39:51. > :39:55.the first time the dual support research funding system in Dngland.

:39:56. > :39:57.This is a system that many people consider to underpin the confidence

:39:58. > :40:03.of universities to invest in long-term research and has

:40:04. > :40:07.contributed to our country's well-deserved reputation globally

:40:08. > :40:12.for excellence. The formation of UKRI will provide crucial stpport

:40:13. > :40:16.during this period of changd in our relationship with the Europdan

:40:17. > :40:21.Union. As we face new challdnges, we need a strong and unified voice to

:40:22. > :40:23.represent the interests of the research and innovation comlunity

:40:24. > :41:09.across Government, Europe and across the world.

:41:10. > :41:14.It can come out of the procdss of Brexit stronger that is why we are

:41:15. > :41:19.engaging in a structure where a cross Government and also ottside of

:41:20. > :41:31.Government the sector like the. . To make sure we have a smarter

:41:32. > :41:40.process... The discredited this Bill as a draft that can take us to,

:41:41. > :41:44.waters. It is about how we dnsure we provide the security and thd vision,

:41:45. > :41:51.and the direction for a strong higher education sector going

:41:52. > :41:55.forward. I am going to make some progress. I have taken lots of

:41:56. > :42:02.interventions. I think it is time that I now make some progress and

:42:03. > :42:04.allow the debate to continud. Our universities are world-class, our

:42:05. > :42:11.researchers are world beating matters because over the usd, over

:42:12. > :42:15.decades, over centuries, thdy have evolved and adapted to face the

:42:16. > :42:21.challenges and the world around them. The world that they do so much

:42:22. > :42:24.to study, understand and explain. We have to make the bold moves that are

:42:25. > :42:32.needed to succeed that secure it success for many years to come. It

:42:33. > :42:36.is about unlocking the talents of people and our best brains. I want

:42:37. > :42:39.the young people of today and tomorrow to be given every

:42:40. > :42:44.opportunity to succeed and that is why I am proud to put this Bill

:42:45. > :42:47.before the House. I would also like to pay tribute to the work done by

:42:48. > :42:53.my honourable friend for Orpington who has done so much work to get

:42:54. > :42:57.this Bill to the stage that it is today. The higher education and

:42:58. > :43:01.research Bill will put more choice and more information in the hands of

:43:02. > :43:05.students, it will promote social mobility so that every person in

:43:06. > :43:10.this country has the opporttnity to make the most of themselves, it will

:43:11. > :43:14.boost productivity in the economy as we realise our future outside of the

:43:15. > :43:20.European Union as the hands and cement our position in the world as

:43:21. > :43:23.leaders in ground-breaking research and ensure students and taxpayers

:43:24. > :43:28.receive value for money frol their investment in education. It is the

:43:29. > :43:32.right thing to do and it is the smart thing to do. The Primd

:43:33. > :43:36.Minister told us last week that together we will build a better

:43:37. > :43:42.Britain. I am clear that edtcation must be at the forefront of that. I

:43:43. > :43:45.won't universities deserve the best. Our students serve the best. Our

:43:46. > :43:51.researchers and innovators deserve the best. So they can play their

:43:52. > :43:55.role in building that better Britain. This Bill will provide them

:43:56. > :44:00.with that. It will provide them with nothing less than the best `nd I

:44:01. > :44:07.commend it to the House. Thd question is that the Bill now be

:44:08. > :44:11.read a second time. Gordon Larsden. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can

:44:12. > :44:15.I begin by congratulating the right honourable lady and welcome her to

:44:16. > :44:21.her position in this House? We look forward to her development of her

:44:22. > :44:28.thoughts on this subject. This is a Bill with some positive elelents and

:44:29. > :44:32.we welcome those. The recognition and identification of social

:44:33. > :44:37.mobility is a key factor and is very important. It is crucial betrayed a

:44:38. > :44:42.system that works for social mobility, not just young people but

:44:43. > :44:49.adults as well. The introduction of Agence pansy Judy Foote University

:44:50. > :44:58.will -- admissions must be welcome. -- the introduction of a unhversity

:44:59. > :45:03.duty. This is an issue that we had to press the Government hard on the

:45:04. > :45:07.maintenance grants debate in January as my honourable friend for

:45:08. > :45:12.Walthamstow has just made clear I am pleased finally that this has

:45:13. > :45:15.been taken on board. I want to please also the University Linister

:45:16. > :45:21.for his strong, consistent `dvocacy of the importance that the DU has

:45:22. > :45:25.had four universities in thd UK During the referendum he spoke

:45:26. > :45:30.against Brexit stating it would mean, we will be confronted with the

:45:31. > :45:34.funding black hole the size of one of the world-class research

:45:35. > :45:38.councils. Ditching membershhp would mean losing a seat at the t`ble

:45:39. > :45:48.where the big decisions arotnd funding are made. That is the rub.

:45:49. > :45:52.The reality is that our world has changed since June the 23rd. That

:45:53. > :45:57.makes all the concerns and criticisms we had voiced on that

:45:58. > :46:38.Bill much more powerful. We think the Government is still groping

:46:39. > :46:47.Our higher education system is focused on being a global operator.

:46:48. > :46:50.It is a difficult and unpredictable time but it is right for thd

:46:51. > :46:55.opportunities for the higher education authorities. I welcome

:46:56. > :47:00.what the honourable gentlem`n said and welcome back he spoke. Julie on

:47:01. > :47:06.part of the Bremain campaign. The fact remains that we have not had a

:47:07. > :47:12.partly put forward by the Government on this. I will talk about that

:47:13. > :47:17.later on. Everyone needs to know about that obsession at the start of

:47:18. > :47:21.the white paper. We need to confront the possibility of some institutions

:47:22. > :47:26.choosing or needing to exit the market. This is a crucial p`rt of a

:47:27. > :47:31.healthy, competitive and well functioning market. Such exhts

:47:32. > :47:35.happen already but not freqtently in the higher education sector. The

:47:36. > :47:40.Government should not present to the exit as a matter of policy. It will

:47:41. > :47:46.remain the provider 's decision to exit and the responsibility to

:47:47. > :47:51.implicate any exit bands. Stch complacency would be comical whether

:47:52. > :47:56.it not for the dire consequdnces that that threatens for thotsands of

:47:57. > :47:59.students and dozens of insthtutions. The Government has made gre`t play

:48:00. > :48:07.of its new teaching excellence framework as a way of strengthening

:48:08. > :48:12.offers to students. We approve that, who could not? We approve the

:48:13. > :48:16.concept of measuring qualitx. The lack of detail of how this will work

:48:17. > :48:20.is added to by the concerns that the Government is using this as a

:48:21. > :48:26.potential Trojan horse for removing the cap on fees. If this is done it

:48:27. > :48:29.could bring in a two tier, damaging separation between teaching and

:48:30. > :48:36.research institutions. We are strongly opposed to that. And also

:48:37. > :48:40.the majority of higher educ`tion respondents to the clean paper. That

:48:41. > :48:44.is why the Secretary of state was all coy about talking about only the

:48:45. > :48:49.best people believe this. Wd are strongly opposed because in the

:48:50. > :48:53.first year it would allow almost all universities or higher educ`tion

:48:54. > :48:56.providers to charge index lhnked inflation for students. This is

:48:57. > :49:00.problematic post-Brexit with the fragility of the economy and there

:49:01. > :49:04.are no guarantees on the level of inflation for the next few xears.

:49:05. > :49:08.There's the potential for significant rises in the cost of

:49:09. > :49:18.fees for students and Mr and cannot guarantee otherwise. As the white

:49:19. > :49:23.paper makes clear, all are off. Along with others, you see xou are

:49:24. > :49:31.concerned with the lack of scrutiny in this framework. Putting the

:49:32. > :49:36.proposals out separately from the Bill, parliament will be denied the

:49:37. > :49:43.chance to debate the vital `spect of planning in full. The quality impact

:49:44. > :49:46.assessment the Government h`s published alongside the Bill raise

:49:47. > :49:52.further questions about the devil in the detail. I give way. I al

:49:53. > :50:02.grateful for the Honourable Member for giving way. Does he not

:50:03. > :50:05.recognise that the link between .. Means that universities are being

:50:06. > :50:14.made accountable in terms of the increase in fees? There is no

:50:15. > :50:16.evidence for that. The point is that it universities have a case to make

:50:17. > :50:33.for fees, they should make ht. The library briefs said of the

:50:34. > :50:38.impact assessment on which this talks about, it says that its

:50:39. > :50:46.material is nearly all qualhtative. The impact of view any of the

:50:47. > :50:53.policies is explicitly quantified. The TEF in its current bases will

:50:54. > :50:57.not apply that. The macro whll allow both full-time and part-timd

:50:58. > :51:01.teaching quality. There is no details how this will happen.

:51:02. > :51:04.Institutes such as the open University who teach a wide range of

:51:05. > :51:08.students from all education`l backgrounds have concerns they will

:51:09. > :51:14.not be dealt with in the sale way as students from a more tradithonal

:51:15. > :51:18.background. I will make mord progress and come to the lady

:51:19. > :51:22.presently. Long established institutions such as Cambridge

:51:23. > :51:26.University have set quite straightforwardly we do not support

:51:27. > :51:32.the linkage between Baku to and fees. It will affect student

:51:33. > :51:35.decision-making and adversely. Jude that will prevent students from

:51:36. > :51:43.low-income families to applxing to university. TEF is expected to

:51:44. > :51:47.benefit students regardless of characteristics in an attempt to

:51:48. > :51:57.justify the public equality duty. I will give way. I have put two

:51:58. > :52:02.daughters through universitx and one son thinking of going, I thhnk it is

:52:03. > :52:07.essential that more focus is put on the quality of what is offered at

:52:08. > :52:13.universities. That is what this Bill is fundamentally trying to work in.

:52:14. > :52:18.I would applaud that and wonder how the honourable gentleman wotld

:52:19. > :52:23.respond? There's nothing wrong with quality at all. Nothing wrong with

:52:24. > :52:27.quality. You have to see whdre the quality extends to, the truth of the

:52:28. > :52:33.matter is that at the moment, that is not clear at all put before us.

:52:34. > :52:39.In addition to the first ye`r, we know they will only be the simplest

:52:40. > :52:43.of tests made available to `llow institutions to attain Xu Xhn fee

:52:44. > :52:45.increases. It will be a caching coupon. There are no guarantees to

:52:46. > :53:03.grab will take us. The TEF... If the honourabld

:53:04. > :53:06.gentleman would stop backing from the front bench he might find that

:53:07. > :53:11.one or two of the respondents to the Bill have close connections to the

:53:12. > :53:18.Government and the Conservative Party. It is not surprising that the

:53:19. > :53:25.TEF proposals risk the commodity of higher education. The Government had

:53:26. > :53:29.to roll back the original plans It took six years in the early 200 s to

:53:30. > :53:36.get a frame up to measure rdsearch quality. Simply using existhng

:53:37. > :53:41.datasets in teaching, such `s the National student survey ball not on

:53:42. > :53:45.their own to the business. The Select Committee said that the use

:53:46. > :53:50.of metrics for proxies for puality was problematic. Although the white

:53:51. > :53:55.paper claims that the TEF award would add up to ?1 billion hn ten

:53:56. > :53:59.years, there are no predicthons of its cost. The Government ard

:54:00. > :54:04.proceeding on this assumption that there will only be one TEF

:54:05. > :54:11.assessment Perin University. A one size fits all approach that has

:54:12. > :54:14.already been criticised by lany commentators, not least at the

:54:15. > :54:18.parliamentary group meeting with the Minister speaking out in December.

:54:19. > :54:25.With is the recognition str`tegy for finessing that assessment? Humanity,

:54:26. > :54:31.science, social sciences and so on. I will give way. I am grateful to

:54:32. > :54:36.the honourable gentleman. I do not doubt his commitment. I cannot

:54:37. > :54:42.understand what his argument is about the teaching framework. He

:54:43. > :54:45.begins by attacking the Govdrnment for extensive consultation `nd then

:54:46. > :54:53.he moves on to attack the Government for being too narrow in its

:54:54. > :55:29.application is it too narrow minded? Can he enlighten the House could

:55:30. > :55:35.Apple makes more progress. The higher education white paper

:55:36. > :55:40.emphasises repeatedly that the driver for these changes is that

:55:41. > :55:45.half the job vacancies from now until 2022 are expected to be in

:55:46. > :55:52.occupations regarding high graduate level skills. As Mike Honourable

:55:53. > :55:56.Member pointed out, does th`t include levels of technical

:55:57. > :56:00.professional competence? And if so, why is there no strong link`ge with

:56:01. > :56:03.the skills plan released two weeks ago -- mark that is a need for a

:56:04. > :56:12.crossover between the skills plan and the higher education Bill. The

:56:13. > :56:17.disconnection that makes less sense, if the opportunity is to be real for

:56:18. > :56:22.students at 16 and beyond to switch between higher educational `nd the

:56:23. > :56:25.occasional roots, why is thd skills plan not directly linked with the

:56:26. > :56:30.white paper? A recent survex showed that less than 10% of respondents

:56:31. > :56:34.recalled learning anything `bout higher education in school before

:56:35. > :56:39.your name or having any contact with University. The education Sdlect

:56:40. > :56:44.Committee that I served on have called for the number of ye`rs that

:56:45. > :56:48.it is imperative that we give young people the aspirations of the need

:56:49. > :56:53.at a much earlier age to make more informed choices about their future

:56:54. > :56:58.educational plans. I would like to see much more about that in this

:56:59. > :57:02.Bill. There are also big qudstions about the changes in Governlent to

:57:03. > :57:12.where this money is coming from Will it transfer all from BDI yes?

:57:13. > :57:18.Where will the resources cole from to implement these changes? The

:57:19. > :57:25.Government's strategy for expanding credit education and skills lists on

:57:26. > :57:32.the philosophy. As we have `lready seen, there is no guarantee of this.

:57:33. > :57:35.Less than 50% of the money `llocated to the 24 advanced learner loans was

:57:36. > :57:44.taken up because of the reshstance of older learners. It had to return

:57:45. > :57:46.?150 million unused to the Treasury. On top of this, students have

:57:47. > :57:50.already been hacked over thd last 12 months by the triple whammy of

:57:51. > :57:53.scrapping maintenance grants for loans, freezing the student loan

:57:54. > :57:57.threshold and removing NHS bursaries. Damaging social lobility

:57:58. > :58:07.for the most disadvantaged students. This places immense faith in the

:58:08. > :58:11.magic of the market and central to the proposals is concentrathon on

:58:12. > :58:15.creating a Brave new world of what the government cause Challenger

:58:16. > :58:20.institutions which are likely to be private and for-profit. Yet,

:58:21. > :58:22.safeguards which would permht an expansion of Challenger

:58:23. > :58:28.institutions, and before anxone jumps up, let me say we're not in

:58:29. > :58:31.any shape or form opposed to new institutions. Many of the ndw

:58:32. > :58:37.institutions... Not at all. I speak... The Honourable ladx had had

:58:38. > :58:43.her say. I speak as someone who actually talked for nearly 20 years

:58:44. > :58:47.for what was a new instituthon and it was the opinion of adversity

:58:48. > :58:55.which was one of the proudest boasts of the government of Harold Wilson.

:58:56. > :58:59.The government has proposed these new providers could be given degree

:59:00. > :59:05.awarding powers straightawax. Students would in effect be taking a

:59:06. > :59:09.gamble on probationary degrdes from probationary dividers. He whll pick

:59:10. > :59:15.the pieces up if it all goes wrong? It is still unclear... What

:59:16. > :59:18.resources the proposed office for students would have two polhce this.

:59:19. > :59:30.What of the problems were not picked up until say 18 months in? @s I have

:59:31. > :59:33.said previously, this white Paper chirps about the possibilitx of exit

:59:34. > :59:38.being their healthy and nattral part of a healthy market. Students are

:59:39. > :59:41.not market traders and do not slip easily for a second time into the

:59:42. > :59:47.womb of higher education whdn they have been let down by the m`rket.

:59:48. > :59:50.Cutting corners in the procdss to become a higher education provider

:59:51. > :59:54.also poses a serious risk to staff and students and increases the risk

:59:55. > :00:04.of public money being misusdd. We know that in 2011, concerns around

:00:05. > :00:08.BP PMB Apollo group caused the previous Secretary of State to

:00:09. > :00:13.pause. Previous expansion of private providers and other jurisdictions

:00:14. > :00:19.has already affected the reputation through reports of phantom students,

:00:20. > :00:23.fraud, low quality of education As research fortnight argued in May,

:00:24. > :00:28.this government's proposed reforms are being billed as innovathve, but

:00:29. > :00:33.in fact they are no such thhng. They say the wording proportionate for

:00:34. > :00:37.the bill is code for light touch. Instead, the UK Government has

:00:38. > :00:42.decided to emulate a model hn which many in the rest of the world would

:00:43. > :00:44.like to escape. Encouraging new universities or providers is

:00:45. > :00:48.important that the title of universities needs to be sedn as a

:00:49. > :00:54.privilege and is not an automatic entitlement. In the long-term, it is

:00:55. > :00:58.quality that is at risk if the proposed legislation becomes law.

:00:59. > :01:03.That is what research fortnhght says. One example is the potential

:01:04. > :01:06.threat to quality might be the proliferation of private medical

:01:07. > :01:12.schools. Three new medical schools will be open in England by 2017 and

:01:13. > :01:16.many more possibly in the ndxt few years. They will be able to operate

:01:17. > :01:19.free of some of the restrictions that publicly funded medical schools

:01:20. > :01:25.face, in particular, around recruitment of home EU and

:01:26. > :01:28.international students. This will create a distorted playing field

:01:29. > :01:37.where existing institutions are unable to expand without penalty. It

:01:38. > :01:41.is also feared that they will have limited engagement with resdarch,

:01:42. > :01:48.lowering the standard of medical education in the UK. In Jund,

:01:49. > :01:53.Baroness Alison Wolf, who w`s a member of the excellent skills plan

:01:54. > :01:59.to which the Secretary of State referred earlier, fresh frol her

:02:00. > :02:06.stay in Australia which has had its own provider controversies, urged

:02:07. > :02:09.caution on the back of the experiences in higher education she

:02:10. > :02:14.found there. She said the Atstralian experience confirms the madness of

:02:15. > :02:17.the removal of caps on enrolments. I think it is morally outrageous that

:02:18. > :02:22.we encourage young people to take out these big loans and givd up

:02:23. > :02:25.years of their lives when it is increasingly becoming obviots that

:02:26. > :02:30.in some universities the avdrage earnings of graduates is lower than

:02:31. > :02:36.the average salary of nongr`duates. You see you have added their

:02:37. > :02:39.concerns, not least about rdmoval of minimum student numbers frol the

:02:40. > :02:48.criteria of university titlds. Why are we scrapping the right to

:02:49. > :02:51.convert titles by the Privy Council? The problematic unfolding and

:02:52. > :02:54.development of the office of students, certainly in its darly

:02:55. > :02:58.years, means it will not be able to have the same sort of international

:02:59. > :03:04.clout, and again, it removes the role of Parliament from either or

:03:05. > :03:10.approving -- approving a disapproving inner-city titles as a

:03:11. > :03:13.backstop. The turn at it Whhte Paper produced by a broad group of

:03:14. > :03:17.researchers and academics h`s also done as a service by remindhng us of

:03:18. > :03:23.the history and jagged procdss of alternative providers under this

:03:24. > :03:29.government and its predecessor. In December ready for team the Public

:03:30. > :03:30.Accounts Committee robustly rebuffed officials for repeatedly ignoring

:03:31. > :03:44.warnings about the for-profht sector. In 2015, the chair reported

:03:45. > :03:49.that between 2010-11 and 2002-1 , there was a rise from 7000 to 5

:03:50. > :03:54.3000. The total amount of ptblic money paid to those students

:03:55. > :04:01.increased from ?50 million to around 675 million. The department pressed

:04:02. > :04:05.ahead with the expansion of this without sufficient regulation in

:04:06. > :04:09.place to protect public mondy. My honourable friend has already

:04:10. > :04:15.referred to that famous photographed arriving to memo which cast doubt on

:04:16. > :04:19.his ability to solve this problem. The Minister, the Secretary of

:04:20. > :04:26.State, talked about, I think it was a recycling of something behng an

:04:27. > :04:32.Estonian self-serve is not so long ago about objections in the past. --

:04:33. > :04:42.recycling of something he s`id himself. When he was asked to say

:04:43. > :04:45.what these new universities or institutions would be, having

:04:46. > :04:49.already had a very lukewarm response when he mentioned it to Google and

:04:50. > :04:54.Facebook, he could only answer that there were a lot of them th`t were

:04:55. > :04:59.interested. The real concern is for students whose as Egyptians are

:05:00. > :05:05.forced to close. It is still unclear what resources would be avahlable to

:05:06. > :05:08.police this and how affected students could be financially

:05:09. > :05:12.compensated and given a cle`r plan for completing their educathon. That

:05:13. > :05:20.Mac real concern is for students whose universities close. In

:05:21. > :05:23.particular, the government's and equality assessment admits dthnic

:05:24. > :05:29.minority students more likely to come from a disadvantaged b`ckground

:05:30. > :05:33.will mean they can access -, cannot access the same financial also shall

:05:34. > :05:40.resources in which British students, white British students, in the event

:05:41. > :05:43.of a close. We therefore expect not demand, we expect protection plans

:05:44. > :05:51.to have a greater impact on this group. I will give way. With my

:05:52. > :05:54.honourable friend agree with me that this is a particular concern for

:05:55. > :06:01.those students who may be m`ture student choosing to study and their

:06:02. > :06:07.immediate locality as they have to continue to work, support children

:06:08. > :06:12.and family members. And this would provide extreme difficulties for

:06:13. > :06:22.them. It is right to bring them back which is the family circumstances of

:06:23. > :06:26.the people affected. There hs the potential for hundreds of broken

:06:27. > :06:32.homes and careers and social mobility being Dutch. As serious as

:06:33. > :06:37.the reputational damage that scandals could do to the UK's

:06:38. > :06:42.international brand. The government White Paper was ready blase about

:06:43. > :06:47.potential knock-on effects for UK plc from its sweeping changds.

:06:48. > :06:50.Higher education providers `cross England and the devolved nations

:06:51. > :06:53.Britain are internationally but competitive because they ard seen as

:06:54. > :06:59.part of a tried and trusted UK brand. There needs to be UK wide

:07:00. > :07:03.strategy used to safeguard ht. As we emerged into a post-Brexit world it

:07:04. > :07:07.is or even more vital if we want our UK brand to shine as brightly as

:07:08. > :07:15.possible to reassure Scotland and Northern Ireland, especiallx where

:07:16. > :07:18.they there remain unresolved tension. The government says the

:07:19. > :07:23.office for students will cover access and buses the patient but

:07:24. > :07:25.what concrete action there will be to match the rhetoric remains

:07:26. > :07:35.unseen. There are major concerns about how quality assurance will be

:07:36. > :07:38.affected. The truth is that the government is consistently

:07:39. > :07:44.undermining its own rhetoric on widening participation. Cuts to

:07:45. > :07:48.Esau, adult skills and soci`l mobility funding for universities

:07:49. > :07:51.along side their disastrous decision to scrap maintenance grants

:07:52. > :07:58.followers which we helped them to account for in this chamber in

:07:59. > :08:05.January. The Sutton Trust who championed that for over a decade,

:08:06. > :08:10.repeated their fears in this bill. Which have already been alltded to,

:08:11. > :08:13.that English students have the highest level of debt in thd English

:08:14. > :08:19.beating world and the figurds for the Secretary of State is ?44,0 0 on

:08:20. > :08:28.graduation and over ?50,000 on those requiring maintenance loans. -- in

:08:29. > :08:31.the English speaking world. Is it not the case that one of thd most

:08:32. > :08:35.important things in improving access to higher education is improving

:08:36. > :08:39.quality of secondary educathon and is it not a great tribute to a

:08:40. > :08:45.previous Prime Minister and the previous Education Secretarx that

:08:46. > :08:49.there are now 1.4 million more children in good and outstanding

:08:50. > :08:56.schools who now have the ch`nce to go to university and achievd great

:08:57. > :09:00.things? I am always happy to applaud excellence in the secondary sector

:09:01. > :09:05.but I do think it is a little rich coming from the honourable

:09:06. > :09:10.gentleman. When he and his predecessor but I did over ` system

:09:11. > :09:17.where particularly -- presided over a system, where they were ddnied

:09:18. > :09:20.automatic access to work experience which would have built up some

:09:21. > :09:31.skills and capacity to take over these positions. With referdnce to

:09:32. > :09:36.the level of quality in schools Will my honourable friend agree that

:09:37. > :09:44.there is also the issue of `ccess to further education. Where provision

:09:45. > :09:52.to access other higher educ`tion cause, is invaluable for people in

:09:53. > :10:39.accessing higher education `nd this bill falls short on anything to

:10:40. > :10:50.We agree that the government as to make an annual requirement for the

:10:51. > :10:55.report. There needs to be, hf we want the office to be a gentine

:10:56. > :10:58.office for students there h`s to be a designated place for studdnt

:10:59. > :11:01.representatives and it is not a student who are key stakeholders but

:11:02. > :11:07.the people working at all ldvels in the institutions and that is why I

:11:08. > :11:11.particularly undersigned -- underline what Unison have said

:11:12. > :11:15.about the lack of decision for employees and students and that is

:11:16. > :11:20.something that they need to do. We can't get away from the fact that

:11:21. > :11:25.the student position is nowhere near as rosy as the government is saying.

:11:26. > :11:30.For 20 years the official position has been that maintenance stpport is

:11:31. > :11:33.not meant to fully cover annual costs for full-time students, the

:11:34. > :11:36.loans are supposed to be supplemented by earnings or

:11:37. > :11:40.contributions from family and too little attention has been p`id to

:11:41. > :11:46.the other debts that students have. The debate about tuition feds

:11:47. > :11:49.increases it an important one but the fundamental problem of

:11:50. > :11:53.sustainability also lies in maintenance support and student cost

:11:54. > :12:01.of living and that is right student dissatisfaction levels are so high

:12:02. > :12:06.and alarming. I want to turn to the issues around the separation of

:12:07. > :12:11.regulation of funding betwedn teaching and OFS and the new UK

:12:12. > :12:13.research and innovation bodx. They said they risked undermining some of

:12:14. > :12:20.the positive interaction of teaching and research. I've already set at

:12:21. > :12:23.the risks that allowing challenger institutions degree awarding powers

:12:24. > :12:27.from day one could have on the quality of the institutions and the

:12:28. > :12:34.regulation needs to be robust rather than proportionate. As I also

:12:35. > :12:38.emphasised, when we debated the scrapping of maintenance gr`nts for

:12:39. > :12:43.students, a key driver and hmprove for social ability arc colldges

:12:44. > :12:48.which deliver over 10% of all HD courses in the country, oftdn for

:12:49. > :12:52.the most disadvantaged studdnts and in places where there is currently a

:12:53. > :12:57.death alone of stand-alone HD provision. They span all ovdr the

:12:58. > :13:05.country from the MCG in the North East to Cornwall as well as my own

:13:06. > :13:09.college. And last year 33,700 English applicants were awarded

:13:10. > :13:15.maintenance grants for HD courses. Would you not have thought therefore

:13:16. > :13:18.that the government might h`ve seen as a key element for expanshon as

:13:19. > :13:24.part of their array of challenger institutions? And yet hidden away in

:13:25. > :13:33.the annex of the impact assdssment of this bill, the government's

:13:34. > :13:34.forecast of the numbers of FE colleges to 27-28 is exactlx the

:13:35. > :13:57.same figure as is projected What capacity will it be for them of

:13:58. > :14:03.systematic cuts and colleges, adult skills and other areas are `dded

:14:04. > :14:11.capability of high dedication to take part in expansion? Manx

:14:12. > :14:16.programmes and which could be scrapped to ?725 million of EU money

:14:17. > :14:27.is lost. Money that produces jobs and skills for on which the courses

:14:28. > :14:32.and Will he underline how ilportant this point is? For many comlunities

:14:33. > :14:36.we serve, Roger education is the critical springboard into hhgher

:14:37. > :14:42.education. In Birmingham, wd have the grand total were level five

:14:43. > :14:46.apprenticeships. We cannot change that number unless we radic`lly

:14:47. > :14:57.increase the week in which further education and higher that is why

:14:58. > :15:10.highlighting that my honour`ble friend position at this dispatch

:15:11. > :15:16.box, he championed that poshtion of the conversions between the UK model

:15:17. > :15:29.and the inclusion model in the valt it is an issue. Whether it resident

:15:30. > :15:34.of the Royal Society, Sir plans were drastic, the Academy of sochal

:15:35. > :15:47.sciences who feel they or P`ul McGinley all, the policy research

:15:48. > :16:05.unit, who said it is the nedd to be stronger safeguards around funding

:16:06. > :16:34.interaction Wales, the Royal Society of others is very concerned

:16:35. > :16:43.about how they also asked for clarification on this point. The

:16:44. > :16:50.proposed since last week, split responsibility for research and

:16:51. > :16:58.teaching across UK... Two sdparately much, the research excellence to

:16:59. > :17:01.Mark and the, both there ard major concerns pose Brexit how

:17:02. > :17:17.universities will find that research. 18 UK institutions face

:17:18. > :17:28.losing in more due to the ddcision to that affect some of the newer

:17:29. > :17:37.universities as well as the warned that jeopardised the world-class

:17:38. > :17:40.science the UK I have three universities in my constitudncy two

:17:41. > :17:47.new ones and one Russell group University who are concerned about

:17:48. > :17:50.what will happen the honour`ble friend agree with me we havd had now

:17:51. > :18:02.be assurance from the Government to replace the funds that go I would

:18:03. > :18:09.agree. This is something th`t has the Vice Chancellor at check in

:18:10. > :18:23.these are issues that affect the That has been amplified in the wake

:18:24. > :18:31.of the Ulster Villa deal after the Brexit vote. Not at the momdnt.

:18:32. > :18:36.Meddling with what the bill calls the architecture of quality

:18:37. > :18:42.assurance where the white p`per Julie says on page 61 that `n offer

:18:43. > :18:50.will dissolve after the cre`tion of the OFS. The Vice Chancellor of

:18:51. > :18:54.Coventry University has surged to add the demands of this bill to

:18:55. > :18:58.those of EU exit at the samd time would be an intolerable burden for

:18:59. > :19:02.universities that threatens to rock our very capacity to do everything

:19:03. > :19:09.we do to extend UK's reputation globally. My honourable fridnd the

:19:10. > :19:15.member for Hartlepool has m`de similar points. There are thousands

:19:16. > :19:20.of EU students at UK universities, what will happen to their continuing

:19:21. > :19:26.eligibility to study a all `ccess student loans? If we are sedn as

:19:27. > :19:34.insular or insular looking, where does that leave EU students? The

:19:35. > :19:38.chair of the business select committee has said government has

:19:39. > :19:41.not provided clarity needed to reassure individuals. The white

:19:42. > :19:47.paper and the bill argued the new challenger is to Jewish and is will

:19:48. > :19:55.affect this. -- challenger institutions. This session with

:19:56. > :19:58.untried, unnamed and untestdd providers can undermined rather than

:19:59. > :20:05.reward the sector and don't think that this is simply something that

:20:06. > :20:10.will affect England, 20,000 non EU students at Scottish universities,

:20:11. > :20:14.and those in Irish universities What'll happen to some of the future

:20:15. > :20:20.careers are some of our brightest and best students and futurd

:20:21. > :20:32.workforce? In 2013-14 there were 15,000 students, UK students, and

:20:33. > :20:37.the Erasmus programme. I received an e-mail after the Brexit votd from a

:20:38. > :20:42.young man in Blackpool who studied in Munich. IDs that I am dedply

:20:43. > :20:47.concerned about our part forward as a nation.

:20:48. > :20:54.The Minister has refused to be drawn on the future schemes to en`ble EU

:20:55. > :20:59.systems... Citizens to come to work in science. Why? Because he knows

:21:00. > :21:03.given her Home Office stancd on migration, the Prime Ministdr good

:21:04. > :21:06.veto it. Regardless, the government are pressing on with a bill that

:21:07. > :21:11.introduces major changes th`t could cause massive disruption. They

:21:12. > :21:19.wonder people are saying if they vote, -- if it ain't broke, don t

:21:20. > :21:27.fix it. The rhetoric of the paper, there is little mention of Skilling.

:21:28. > :21:33.There is a failure to plot `ny lifelong strategy to tackle our

:21:34. > :21:38.skills gaps. We need to retrain and reskill older workers. Therd has

:21:39. > :21:42.been talk about social mobility and improving this under the prdvious

:21:43. > :21:46.government but little of thhs has touched on and benefited older

:21:47. > :21:51.part-time students. The number of part-time students has plumleted by

:21:52. > :21:57.38% and mature students havd dropped by hundred and 80000 by 20 ten.

:21:58. > :22:11.Part-time higher education hs the catalyst for widening participation.

:22:12. > :22:16.Part-time study helps students for disadvantaged backgrounds btt that

:22:17. > :22:20.has not seen for mature students whose numbers have declined. The

:22:21. > :22:25.latest survey of students bx the National education opportunhty

:22:26. > :22:28.network save 40% may be choosing different causes an institution than

:22:29. > :22:32.they would like because of costs restricting the range of

:22:33. > :22:37.institutions they apply to buy living at home. This governlent has

:22:38. > :22:40.talked the talk on widening participation but not walked the

:22:41. > :22:49.walk and it is astonishing that in such a large bill they have not put

:22:50. > :22:57.the importance on adult learning and part-time. Having cut my tedth as a

:22:58. > :23:02.postgraduate with the WDA, H am proud to indoors, as the party is,

:23:03. > :23:09.and express commitment to p`rt-time and adult education. I have said

:23:10. > :23:13.previously that the worlds of further education, higher education

:23:14. > :23:16.and online learning at morphing into each other far more quickly than

:23:17. > :23:23.some policymakers realise. We are not ahead of the curve, the

:23:24. > :23:32.consequences could be severd. I will briefly give way. He mentions in his

:23:33. > :23:35.speech a number of criticisls of competition in the university

:23:36. > :23:41.sector. Does he not agree whth Lord Mandelson who said in his rdsponse

:23:42. > :23:44.to the government White Papdr and I quote, I welcome this focus on the

:23:45. > :23:54.range of universities as thdy are essential for social mobility. Well,

:23:55. > :23:57.Lord Mandelson, I am at one at that. I welcome a range of universities

:23:58. > :24:02.but what I want to make surd and what I am sure most members of this

:24:03. > :24:06.House want to make sure is that they do what they say on the tin and can

:24:07. > :24:11.be dusted in the first placd. That is the whole point of what we are

:24:12. > :24:17.saying. -- trusted. The honourable gentleman and, whips are tr`ined to

:24:18. > :24:23.say things like that, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating The

:24:24. > :24:30.government should... I will watch and see. The government shotld take

:24:31. > :24:34.into consideration proposals to imported to be left to chance. They

:24:35. > :24:40.should study the Fabian Sochety s new repose is to do away with loans.

:24:41. > :24:46.The Open University, city and Guilds, and several others have

:24:47. > :24:54.produced ideas to facilitatd both credit transfer and personal career

:24:55. > :24:59.at Cowes. These build on thd magisterial 2009 learning through

:25:00. > :25:08.life report which was co-authored by Tom Schuler and David Watson.

:25:09. > :25:15.Knowledge is power, but tod`y we have an opportunity that also a duty

:25:16. > :25:24.to spreads that power. Life launch learning should not be silo. It

:25:25. > :25:30.helps people live longer, it helps bring back offenders into society.

:25:31. > :25:35.It contributes to getting economically inactive peopld ready

:25:36. > :25:39.for the world of work. I am labouring on this points because I

:25:40. > :25:42.realise given the smaller btdgets the ministers opposite might have,

:25:43. > :25:44.they may have to go around with a begging bowl if we are actu`lly

:25:45. > :26:01.going to get progress in thhs area. We should be bold and bring forward

:26:02. > :26:05.practical skills with knowlddge The Government has been content to make

:26:06. > :26:08.welcome incremental changes whilst the capacity of adult learnhng is

:26:09. > :26:12.unravelling further. There hs little reference as my colleague mdntioned

:26:13. > :26:43.to have devolution max. The primary responsibility would be

:26:44. > :26:50.to its owners, investors and its shareholders. Instead of looking at

:26:51. > :26:56.urgent and constructive ways of reducing the financial burddn on

:26:57. > :27:03.students and preparing mech`nisms which dodge Parliament 's ability to

:27:04. > :27:07.regulate them, the Government has brought forward this Bill. Hnstead

:27:08. > :27:12.of shoring up the universithes at its most critical time, thex risked

:27:13. > :27:15.seriously undermining them by pursuing obsessively that m`rket

:27:16. > :27:22.ideology. Instead of analyshs in the wake of Brexit to give assurances

:27:23. > :27:24.and strategies to safeguard research excellence in traditional

:27:25. > :27:26.universities and modern ones, and the involvement of a cheat `nd local

:27:27. > :27:55.communities. We have continually ducked the

:27:56. > :28:03.suggestions made them about pre-legislative scrutiny to try to

:28:04. > :28:10.iron out some of these issuds. With the results of the Brexit rdferendum

:28:11. > :28:13.and the collapse of the Camdron Government, we can see how wise it

:28:14. > :28:21.would be for them to reflect and take time, instead they are going

:28:22. > :28:25.hell for leather with a Bill... The small measures of progress that they

:28:26. > :28:29.have made on social mobilitx could have been the opportunity to paint a

:28:30. > :28:35.bold new picture of a systel that would encourage social cohesion

:28:36. > :28:38.Instead, they have undermindd the own suggestions on social mobility.

:28:39. > :28:42.We could have had a Bill th`t addressed these things and which

:28:43. > :28:46.would have commended weight support across the House with institutions

:28:47. > :28:53.that supply higher education and research. Instead, after thd

:28:54. > :29:00.business has been turned upside down, we are pressing on as if

:29:01. > :29:05.nothing had happened. When the facts change, I change my mind, what do

:29:06. > :29:09.you do? That is not the build this Parliament needs. It is not the Bill

:29:10. > :29:13.that universities and higher education needs. It is not the Bill

:29:14. > :29:20.that the country needs. It hs a Bill that is not fit for purpose and

:29:21. > :29:23.after Brexit, to provide direction and structured to tackle and said

:29:24. > :29:27.the needs of a crucial part of our national... In the next gendration.

:29:28. > :29:34.That is why we cannot support its second tonight. Neil Carmichael

:29:35. > :29:40.Thank you very much. I would like to welcome the new Secretary of state.

:29:41. > :29:48.It is a great pleasure to sde her sitting in her place. I think she

:29:49. > :29:51.does a wonderful job. I was reminded when she spoke about her experience

:29:52. > :29:56.going to university as the first member offer family, it was the same

:29:57. > :30:00.for me. I remember heading from Northumberland to Nottinghal

:30:01. > :30:05.thinking I was going fairly well so. Until I met students who were also

:30:06. > :30:11.on the arrival but they werd coming north. I was quite intrigued by

:30:12. > :30:16.that. I enjoyed my time at university as did she. I wotld echo

:30:17. > :30:20.her point that it really dods matter about getting to university. For

:30:21. > :30:26.those that do, it is a fabulous thing. Precisely the point `bout

:30:27. > :30:31.this whole discussion is to make sure more can do that and c`n be

:30:32. > :30:36.successful. That is the essdntial point. I am also very keen to

:30:37. > :30:44.welcome the creation of a l`rge support Department for Educ`tion. It

:30:45. > :30:52.always struck me it was verx strange that the previous Government but

:30:53. > :30:54.one, Gordon Brown's, severed the Department for Education and created

:30:55. > :30:59.the situation where we had ` wasteland. We never knew who was

:31:00. > :31:04.doing what and how it was bding done, and he was standing at. Apart

:31:05. > :31:09.from the fact that the link`ge between schools, colleges and

:31:10. > :31:14.universities was effectivelx broken. Creating a new department lhke we

:31:15. > :31:18.have, I think, is a fabulous step in a new direction. I remember

:31:19. > :31:21.discussing this with the right honourable member for Surrex Heath.

:31:22. > :31:29.I think he would concur with what I had just said. As a former Secretary

:31:30. > :31:35.of State for education, he hs well placed to do that. We have copyright

:31:36. > :31:43.kind of Department. I am pldased as the education Select Committee that

:31:44. > :31:49.I have even more to do. The sector that we are talking about today is

:31:50. > :31:52.very important. There's nothing more important, in fact, then making sure

:31:53. > :31:59.that the HE sector for rides and prosperous. We will give yot several

:32:00. > :32:05.reasons. That price. The obvious one is social mobility and justhce. The

:32:06. > :32:08.brutal fact is that it is and in hop -- up her and waste to know that

:32:09. > :32:13.there are people who could get into university but cannot. -- tdrrible

:32:14. > :32:19.waste. It is completely unacceptable. What we have to have

:32:20. > :32:24.in society is where we have people who can and should, and do want to

:32:25. > :32:28.go somewhere can get there. That is our job. It is not acceptable to

:32:29. > :32:36.have groups of people or individuals amongst groups of people, trapped.

:32:37. > :32:44.Thank you for giving way. On that basis, how does he justify the

:32:45. > :32:50.removal of NHS bursaries? I do think it is an important issue to attract

:32:51. > :32:58.people to the NHS. What we need to be concentrating on to therd is the

:32:59. > :33:03.Bill in point. It is an isste that we will look at in due course on the

:33:04. > :33:06.education Select Committee. I want to go back to this point about

:33:07. > :33:13.social justice and making stre that we actually extend out to all. It is

:33:14. > :33:19.critical. One of the issues that is important is that we need to

:33:20. > :33:25.recognise that it has to be extended across the country to regions and

:33:26. > :33:30.localities that are surrounded by effectively a wall. A wall `gainst

:33:31. > :33:39.hope. A wall against opporttnity. A war against achievement. -- Paul.

:33:40. > :33:47.This Bill is also about productivity. That is a critical

:33:48. > :33:51.point as well. To have a society where people can feel included, feel

:33:52. > :33:56.able to express themselves, feel able to get the jobs and

:33:57. > :34:02.opportunities they want, we need a society that is also based on an

:34:03. > :34:07.economic productive model. The reality is productivity equ`ls more

:34:08. > :34:11.opportunity. It equals people having more skills, having the ability to

:34:12. > :34:16.get a better salary, having the ability to do things they could not

:34:17. > :34:25.otherwise do. The productivhty argument is absolutely at the court

:34:26. > :34:33.of why it is we need to improve our university sector as this Bhll seeks

:34:34. > :34:36.to do. Would he acknowledged that productivity is also part of what we

:34:37. > :34:40.would call the search and development, particularly rdsearch

:34:41. > :34:48.and development budgets in Durope. There is a concern that the

:34:49. > :34:54.withdrawal from Europe -- Etrope can have an impact on projects that have

:34:55. > :34:56.been financed. Could the honourable gentleman look about whether they

:34:57. > :35:04.have already looked at that consequence? I think it is dssential

:35:05. > :35:08.we have research and development. If you look at the comparatives between

:35:09. > :35:11.ourselves and other countrids they are competing with, you find some

:35:12. > :35:17.areas where we could and should do better. You are absolutely right. I

:35:18. > :35:21.want to make this point abott productivity, if you take the

:35:22. > :35:29.Germany point of view, according to the OECD, 28% more productive than

:35:30. > :35:32.us, that economy has businesses companies and professions, they

:35:33. > :35:36.understand human forces, people are the things that really mattdr. I

:35:37. > :35:41.will give you an example of how I know this. I went to a power factory

:35:42. > :35:46.in East Germany, lower Saxony to be exact. It is basically being built

:35:47. > :35:52.from the ashes of the collapse of the Communist regime. They `re

:35:53. > :35:56.producing cars. I was talking about the supply chain. What does it look

:35:57. > :36:00.like Hoylake I asked the manager what looked like. He said hd could

:36:01. > :36:10.show me. What he showed me was a typical final but what was `lso part

:36:11. > :36:12.of the supply chain were colleges and universities, not just the

:36:13. > :36:22.normal value factors that stpply cars. -- manufacturers. If xou are

:36:23. > :36:28.going to be productive and to drive through the growth that we need you

:36:29. > :36:34.need human resources. Making sure that we do so is a huge step in the

:36:35. > :36:40.rate direction. I am fine. The on board member giving way. Mickey just

:36:41. > :36:48.comment on my alma mater, the University of West London which has

:36:49. > :36:56.the legislator nurtured a relationship between the gr`duates

:36:57. > :37:00.so that it feels its needs to the industries so there is a sylbiotic

:37:01. > :37:04.relationship between the industries and the University. Is that a model

:37:05. > :37:09.that we should be looking to expand across the entire higher edtcation

:37:10. > :37:13.sector? It is a good point. We will put that in with devolution. My

:37:14. > :37:18.honourable friend makes a powerful point. It is important that the

:37:19. > :37:24.universities are connected to businesses, to professions. I make

:37:25. > :37:26.two more points. The first hs that through devolution, through making

:37:27. > :37:31.sure that universities becole dominant partners of cities and

:37:32. > :37:38.other regions, then they will be able to make those links for

:37:39. > :37:42.opportunities and contributd to the world of research and development

:37:43. > :37:48.that is so important beyond the university itself. That is point

:37:49. > :37:53.number one. Point number two, what we have to do is recognise that

:37:54. > :37:55.businesses and professions have an interest to be invested in

:37:56. > :38:01.universities and we should dncourage them to do so in a traditional way

:38:02. > :38:05.by supplying capital, and in the most sensible way, supporting

:38:06. > :38:10.students to go to universitx, to stay at university and develop

:38:11. > :38:19.research opportunities. There are steps to make that happen in this

:38:20. > :38:24.Bill. If you take, for example, the office for students, like the idea

:38:25. > :38:29.that is going to have the ability to shape the new universities that we

:38:30. > :38:36.need an access to degree subjects that we also need. That ties in with

:38:37. > :38:39.the knowledge that everybodx has that we do have certain skilled

:38:40. > :38:45.sectors which are woefully undersupplied. What we need to do is

:38:46. > :38:51.develop the university sector to help put that right. That khnd of

:38:52. > :39:00.relationship is a very important one for us. I also welcome the fact that

:39:01. > :39:04.this Bill is selecting the lartial leave you. That is an important

:39:05. > :39:15.contribution to the bait. -, nursery.

:39:16. > :39:21.What I would say is that structure does need to be user-friendly in the

:39:22. > :39:29.sense that it must engage whth the world of the search and the

:39:30. > :39:31.interests of science. We have to remember that getting inforlation

:39:32. > :39:38.technology in the right places important. There are sometiles

:39:39. > :39:43.questions about who owns IP and who's going to benefit from IP. We

:39:44. > :39:47.need to set up a system which looks good and is able to deliver that

:39:48. > :40:18.kind of structure. Other issue is the question of

:40:19. > :40:25.destinations. We don't about this destinations from schools that

:40:26. > :40:31.matter rather than convocathon an assessment. That is why I al quite

:40:32. > :40:37.pleased about the teaching framework. That will help us shape

:40:38. > :40:44.the destination issue in it thing way. If we get it right... Will he

:40:45. > :40:50.expects that these process could be with the regional colleges, they

:40:51. > :40:55.have important part to play not only in their relationship with schools

:40:56. > :41:01.and universities. Teaching can be upgraded. Of course I do. The truth

:41:02. > :41:05.of the matter is colleges produce foundation degrees, a logic`l link

:41:06. > :41:08.an extension to universities. The relationship between larger colleges

:41:09. > :41:14.and universities should be `llowed to develop, and courage. Ex`ctly the

:41:15. > :41:21.kind of the question of getting the skills of wanted the subject I think

:41:22. > :41:27.also very critical. Shut up you think about the world of edtcation

:41:28. > :41:33.in a linear wave is finished, that is why they please welcome the new

:41:34. > :41:42.creation this apartment. I wrote about it a few years ago it would

:41:43. > :41:45.happen, though it has reasons I hoped it would happen for other

:41:46. > :41:46.which is that we need to sed universities and colleges thinking

:41:47. > :41:52.of their relationship is with schools and academies. That is a key

:41:53. > :41:58.issue. The travel of the other way, too. That will help us understand

:41:59. > :42:16.more about what the labour larket skills might account for thd select

:42:17. > :42:28.committee if you think it up. But most of their city I have

:42:29. > :42:50.suggestions for what was shd there will, going at so sorry in ` civil

:42:51. > :43:07.stuff is. But this is actions. It is action in the singer 's even so will

:43:08. > :43:15.the academies during fools. Skills. This is the skin. Vince Wilfork

:43:16. > :43:24.education system is they've more of me in the World Cup this th`t during

:43:25. > :43:31.those stock is reaching out for desperate to be reached out they are

:43:32. > :43:39.those that are described as an opt plague they should not deprhve

:43:40. > :43:45.faith. That is put right on this journey we barking on this second

:43:46. > :43:50.reading of the bill committde at their will look at the issuds raised

:43:51. > :43:55.by the opposition. Taking note of one or to macro. I want my committee

:43:56. > :44:25.right. It is an important one. -- two. Through the cracks not of

:44:26. > :44:37.his these things for. With heritage should all aged up things that the

:44:38. > :45:12.death you there shouldn't, fourth sheet that not

:45:13. > :45:29.still to produce up because the certificate passed often gave UK to

:45:30. > :45:48.the framework. I'm not participating Scotthsh

:45:49. > :45:56.universe and this becomes to be attracting foreign students. I thank

:45:57. > :46:02.the honourable lady for givhng way, I echo the sentiments will stop I

:46:03. > :46:06.worked in an educational institution, that and agree with the

:46:07. > :46:10.value of international studdnts The value is financial, but is luch more

:46:11. > :46:18.than that, and all students lose out if that becomes a problem. H agree

:46:19. > :46:22.with my honourable friend 100%. Diversity in the institutions, what

:46:23. > :46:24.we can learn from students overseas. It really enriches the experience

:46:25. > :46:32.for all students in higher education. For international

:46:33. > :46:40.students, potentially viewing a move to a UK university, they cotld look

:46:41. > :46:43.in English university with ` strong rate as offering a better qtality of

:46:44. > :46:52.experience then a Scottish university with a rating. As this

:46:53. > :46:57.will be grounds in quality `ssurance scores, and Scotland has a distinct

:46:58. > :47:02.quality assurance system, the invitation of Scotland's in Hance

:47:03. > :47:08.educational reviews, and thd benchmarking would allow

:47:09. > :47:15.institutions in Scotland to continue to compete on a level playing field.

:47:16. > :47:20.In a scratch of national sttdents. It is important that caution is

:47:21. > :47:24.exercised around the use of metrics to judge the quality of teaching.

:47:25. > :47:28.From metrics like graduate salary, student satisfaction, and drive

:47:29. > :47:40.university behaviour in a ndgative way. Higher education institutes are

:47:41. > :47:45.encouraged to sacrifice certain subjects, for areas producing more

:47:46. > :47:51.satisfactory results areas leasured. Courses which are more challenging,

:47:52. > :47:59.and possibly score lower sttdent satisfaction metrics may be hit

:48:00. > :48:07.Vital seven courses. They could end up being dropped, they do not mesh

:48:08. > :48:14.well -- measure well. If metrics are to be used, they should be carefully

:48:15. > :48:21.done so so that skill has bden developed, and it meets the overall

:48:22. > :48:26.needs of society. The drive towards marketisation of the student expects

:48:27. > :48:35.is one with all you with cotrt in the power to award the festhve I did

:48:36. > :48:50.the work is an there is a mdchanism in sure ideas have a crack hn the --

:48:51. > :48:54.track record. This will be damaging as the UK competes internathonally

:48:55. > :49:36.for students. show union of students at chin. So

:49:37. > :49:46.the defence would share, it Private Eye is what should be worridd about.

:49:47. > :49:56.-- Private Eye courses which are more than to left to Irish ddition

:49:57. > :49:59.of disputes. These traditional institutions of will either bear

:50:00. > :50:04.this financial burden, or worse still will abandon some of the

:50:05. > :50:10.courses which ever earned the UK its worldwide patient for excellence in

:50:11. > :50:14.the field. New institutions will be allowed to operate without providing

:50:15. > :50:21.services, from libraries, to student unions. A key part of the student

:50:22. > :50:29.experience in university. This bill this competition, not on thd terms

:50:30. > :50:36.with existing universities that on substantially any assumption one can

:50:37. > :50:42.make easily providers for students. There are of course City mob of the

:50:43. > :50:51.government have, with a latd fee at 6000, universe that have le`ked the

:50:52. > :51:03.quality, and at the other end of IS ?9,000, further rise in recdnt

:51:04. > :51:08.teaching fight to, is recognised of Finland is with the same for all

:51:09. > :51:16.courses in the Institute. Creating systems that quality of a whole is

:51:17. > :51:22.not allowing them the front. I will finish my point. The fee if teaching

:51:23. > :51:40.will there be across of months that the stick. Create work framd the

:51:41. > :51:46.corpse of the fair that sets forth, charging for money quality degree. I

:51:47. > :51:51.have huge admirer of educathon in Scotland, and found that late it is

:51:52. > :51:58.meant universities is that whole living in one case he sat rdvealed

:51:59. > :52:04.that Scotland at this foot hn any part of the kingdom is admitting

:52:05. > :52:10.students from poorer backgrounds to piety is not back the gent for his

:52:11. > :52:23.intervention. A useful one for myself. I did this stop looking at

:52:24. > :52:29.the true from higher educathon. Scotland will have higher education

:52:30. > :52:39.students taking alternative routes in. Tuition fees were trebldd in

:52:40. > :52:42.2012, but there was no eviddnce to suggest there has been an

:52:43. > :52:48.improvement in teaching quality for student satisfaction. The SNP

:52:49. > :52:53.strongly opposes any further increase in fees. We continte to

:52:54. > :52:57.support a system whereby entry to university is based on the `bility

:52:58. > :53:03.to learn, never on the abilhty to pay. We have a strong and principled

:53:04. > :53:08.record of opposing increases in tuition fees throughout the UK. We

:53:09. > :53:13.will reject any bill which hncreases the financial burden on students.

:53:14. > :53:16.I'm happy the Secretary of State recognises that allowing

:53:17. > :53:23.marketisation of higher education will increase the possibility of

:53:24. > :53:26.institutions exiting the market The NUS has raised concerns abott the

:53:27. > :53:32.first responsibility of collapsing providers. Providers have

:53:33. > :53:39.responsibilities to their shareholders about their sttdents?

:53:40. > :53:45.There was no recognition, or Vosloo groups may get monetary recompense,

:53:46. > :53:49.there is a recognition of the time wasted by students starting a course

:53:50. > :53:56.with an institution, which subsequently fails. This tile is

:53:57. > :53:59.indeed money for the students, whose careers and earning potenti`l could

:54:00. > :54:06.be delayed while they seek `n alternative provider. They have been

:54:07. > :54:13.asked to make a gamble with their fees and time, more importantly The

:54:14. > :54:20.SNP has at its heart a commhtment to higher education of their profit of

:54:21. > :54:23.education remains a look to us. The new emphasis on participation, as

:54:24. > :54:29.well as access is a positivd measure. Plans to place a

:54:30. > :54:34.transparency duty on universities to publish data for students b`sed on

:54:35. > :54:37.gender, ethnicity and social backgrounds are a step in the right

:54:38. > :54:44.direction, and I'm pleased to see there was scope to extend student

:54:45. > :54:51.financing to students who do not accept interest carolling loans

:54:52. > :54:55.creating a compliant manner of financing by students. If government

:54:56. > :55:01.are going to meet their targets of doubling the potion of studdnts from

:55:02. > :55:04.disadvantaged backgrounds going to university, and increasing the

:55:05. > :55:08.number of black and minoritx ethnic students going to universitx,

:55:09. > :55:18.transparency revolution must also ensure the and accountability.

:55:19. > :55:24.Would she agree it is vital the Government will looks at thd

:55:25. > :55:28.interaction between the higher education sectors in Scotland and

:55:29. > :55:31.takes full account of the w`y that works to encourage particip`tion by

:55:32. > :55:38.those groups that may be lilited currently? Absolutely. Another group

:55:39. > :55:44.that has an advantage by thdse routes as single parents and

:55:45. > :55:47.part-time students who are not able to access higher education hn the

:55:48. > :55:56.same way that they have been able to in Scotland. Clear measures and

:55:57. > :56:03.pathways to enable disadvantaged students to progress have bden

:56:04. > :56:06.steadily eroded. Removal of the educational maintenance allowance

:56:07. > :56:11.and maintenance grants for students from disadvantaged backgrounds

:56:12. > :56:16.coupled with cuts to disabldd students and their allowancd does

:56:17. > :56:19.not match the Government's `mbitions in this area. The picture in

:56:20. > :56:25.Scotland continues to improve and positive steps are being taken to

:56:26. > :56:28.ensure access continues to hncrease. Young people from a disadvantaged

:56:29. > :56:32.background in Scotland are now more likely to participate in higher

:56:33. > :56:41.education than they have evdr been in the past. We are now at 41% in

:56:42. > :56:52.2014 of students from disadvantaged backgrounds who were able to access

:56:53. > :56:56.higher education. Moving on to the search, the commitment to jdwel

:56:57. > :56:59.support systems of research funding and that they have been principal

:57:00. > :57:07.has been greatly welcomed bx the research community. Proposals to

:57:08. > :57:11.reform the UK research Council in this Bill could have implic`tions

:57:12. > :57:15.for higher education institttions in Scotland and we continue to have

:57:16. > :57:21.concerns about the potential short and long-term consequences for

:57:22. > :57:25.Scotland's the search base. The retention of seven disciplinary

:57:26. > :57:30.research councils is welcomd. Merges or changes to this structurd at this

:57:31. > :57:34.time could prove distracting to the research councils and could impact

:57:35. > :57:42.negatively upon the UK's research capability. It has been stated that

:57:43. > :57:46.it is strongly believed that the research council should continue to

:57:47. > :57:50.hold its own budget and provide leadership for its own dischplines

:57:51. > :57:55.and Anna Thomas fashion. Thd creation of UK research and

:57:56. > :57:59.innovation within the context of science and research budget will

:58:00. > :58:04.give greater coordination across the research councils and will hopefully

:58:05. > :58:08.offer a stronger voice to the research community in its

:58:09. > :58:11.interaction with Government. Currently, Scotland performs well in

:58:12. > :58:17.attracting funding from resdarch councils for grants, studentships

:58:18. > :58:25.and fellowships. The latest recorded figures showing Scotland attracted

:58:26. > :58:32.13% of the UK total in 2012,13. Research Council spending on

:58:33. > :58:42.infrastructure was only 5% of the UK spending. And only 7% of innovative

:58:43. > :58:46.UK funding is spent in Scotland We are concerned that there cotld be a

:58:47. > :58:51.lack of consideration amongst the research councils and Innov`te UK

:58:52. > :58:58.decision-making bodies of priorities and research needs in Scotl`nd and

:58:59. > :59:07.other devolved nations. Scotland's research interests and priorities

:59:08. > :59:11.would be better served if the new UKRI board had an understanding of

:59:12. > :59:16.policies across Scotland as well as the UK. We ask that representation

:59:17. > :59:25.of the devolved administrathons is given on the board of UKRI. My

:59:26. > :59:30.honourable friend who despite what was being said, is not the

:59:31. > :59:34.Honourable Member for Angus. I visited the University of Glasgow

:59:35. > :59:39.which is my constituency to meet with the space research dep`rtment.

:59:40. > :59:43.They spoke at some length about the importance of research mech`nisms

:59:44. > :59:48.and the ability for the resdarch councils to join funding all the way

:59:49. > :59:51.up. It is important when we have opportunity with legislation like

:59:52. > :59:55.this to make progress with these issues. One of the problems like

:59:56. > :00:01.groups of Glasgow Universitx have found is that there is a bl`ck hole

:00:02. > :00:08.between different areas of research. Let us hope that this leads to

:00:09. > :00:13.greater collaboration. This collaboration between research

:00:14. > :00:18.councils and Innovate UK is positive but the core mission of Innovate UK

:00:19. > :00:22.is different and distinct from that of the search councils. It hs a

:00:23. > :00:27.bridging role between busindss and research communities, it is to

:00:28. > :00:32.stimulate business innovation and support it. That could be threatened

:00:33. > :00:39.if Innovate UK does not intdract more collaboratively with the

:00:40. > :00:49.academic research community. And the moment in Scotland, our bushness

:00:50. > :00:56.base includes 90% of SMEss. We would hope that Innovate would continue to

:00:57. > :01:04.work with them in its distinct role. Finally, if I could mention the

:01:05. > :01:08.impact of the EU referendum. This has serious implications for the

:01:09. > :01:11.university sector. The UK Government must work with the Scottish

:01:12. > :01:17.Government to ensure that Scottish higher education institutes are not

:01:18. > :01:25.adversely impacted, especially given that Scotland voted clearly to

:01:26. > :01:30.remain in the EU. In 2014-14, there were over 13,000 EU students

:01:31. > :01:33.studying for undergraduate degrees in Scottish universities. In the

:01:34. > :01:37.science and technology Commhttee last week, I asked the Minister for

:01:38. > :01:41.universities and signs about the positions of the students of the

:01:42. > :01:48.next few years. He was not `ble to offer a guaranteed beyond 2017- 8. I

:01:49. > :01:52.call again for an immediate guarantee from the UK Government

:01:53. > :01:56.that all EU students studying in Scotland, and across the rest of the

:01:57. > :02:03.UK, will be able to continud their studies without disruption. I thank

:02:04. > :02:07.my friend forgetting the wax a second time. The University of

:02:08. > :02:12.Glasgow and many other Scottish universities were quick aftdr the EU

:02:13. > :02:16.referendum to state how welcomed the European Union students where in the

:02:17. > :02:19.institutions and go as far `s they possibly could to provide the issue

:02:20. > :02:24.of a continued welcome, thex won't be able -- they want them to be able

:02:25. > :02:30.to complete their courses and remain part of the institution. Those

:02:31. > :02:36.institutions were able to rdspond quickly and can be pressed the

:02:37. > :02:40.Government for Fotherby asstrance? I agree 100%. Aberdeen University took

:02:41. > :02:45.a bold step of saying they would be no change to the status of `ny EU

:02:46. > :02:51.student, not just currently studying at Aberdeen but also future students

:02:52. > :02:53.who are looking to come to @berdeen University, a point which the

:02:54. > :03:07.honourable gentleman would like to note. Mr Deputy Speaker, thhs Bill

:03:08. > :03:14.does not reflect the impact of Brexit. Scottish institutions have

:03:15. > :03:19.not been offered any assurances that the 217 million euros funding that

:03:20. > :03:26.is currently coming will be made up by the UK Government. With the

:03:27. > :03:31.current instability in highdr education, this is the wrong time to

:03:32. > :03:38.press ahead with this Bill. The SNP is not able to support this Bill

:03:39. > :03:46.today in its current form. Thank you. Rather than put a time limit on

:03:47. > :03:52.it, if we can do up to 12 mhnutes, we will get equal time and we should

:03:53. > :04:03.all be happy. It is a pleastre as a London MP to be here with the

:04:04. > :04:08.dynamic duo that have no taken over education, I can confirm having sat

:04:09. > :04:19.here for the last two hours, he has ponder here than the honour`ble

:04:20. > :04:25.lady. -- his here is more blonde. There is another London member, the

:04:26. > :04:30.birthday boy from Tottenham. When I read the Guardian today it said he

:04:31. > :04:33.was born in 1972 and I must -- I am sure it must've be a misprint

:04:34. > :04:42.because it does not look older than 55. I should also make a brhef

:04:43. > :04:46.declaration of interest. I have spent the last 11 years on the

:04:47. > :04:52.advisory board of the London School of commerce which is a highdr

:04:53. > :04:56.education provider. I am sure the House is delighted to hear that he

:04:57. > :04:59.is a reader of the Guardian but could I say I am very glad we do not

:05:00. > :05:04.have man GB selection in thd Conservative Party because such a

:05:05. > :05:13.confession might not endeardd him to his constituents and I hope easier

:05:14. > :05:23.for many years to come. I thank him for the observation. Maybe ht is

:05:24. > :05:28.another Guardian misprint. Ly role on the London School of comlerce on

:05:29. > :05:33.the advisory board has been very enthralling and interesting. I have

:05:34. > :05:38.watched the development of ` private education provider that has dabbled

:05:39. > :05:42.with the idea of having full university status and trying to get

:05:43. > :05:51.the awarding powers. It has expanded overseas. This is not a deb`te to

:05:52. > :05:54.talk a lot about the Governlent immigration policies but I do

:05:55. > :06:00.recognise that has had an ilpact on the broader higher education sector.

:06:01. > :06:03.A school that had 7500 is use only ten years ago, it is now down to a

:06:04. > :06:10.third of that number. One of the interesting things is that ` college

:06:11. > :06:16.that provides two year degrdes, a college that also charges wdll under

:06:17. > :06:20.the ?9,000 limit. It is intdresting that there has been growth hn

:06:21. > :06:27.domestic students over recent years. It is a vocational value added

:06:28. > :06:32.degree. I have watched it ddvelop. Overseas colleges in places like

:06:33. > :06:41.Kuala Lumpur and Dakar in Bangladesh. And the European centres

:06:42. > :06:47.as well. It is regarded as ` alternative provider but fahled to

:06:48. > :06:50.acknowledge the valuable ecosystem of higher education. I think it is

:06:51. > :06:56.very important in the work ht is doing. Elements of this Bill could

:06:57. > :07:03.have came into place five ydars ago had not been for some probldms

:07:04. > :07:06.arising. It is fair to say that there is an apparent sense of rude

:07:07. > :07:11.health in this sector. We all have to recognise it is a hugely

:07:12. > :07:16.important business and revenue generator for the UK. Parti`lly

:07:17. > :07:23.because of the use of the English language but also the fact we have

:07:24. > :07:26.got a highly recognised and approved standards of quality, something be

:07:27. > :07:32.perhaps take for granted with our own education providers. Solething

:07:33. > :07:43.that is not necessarily the case in other parts of the world. 125

:07:44. > :07:53.publicly funded HE students, a sector that employs 170 academic

:07:54. > :07:59.staff. The research side is also of critical importance. Innovations is

:08:00. > :08:03.at the heart of what is dond in many universities. There are somd

:08:04. > :08:08.providers in this sphere th`t will not go down the reserve chute and

:08:09. > :08:16.will be focusing largely on for occasional education. It is

:08:17. > :08:20.important that it is not just in other countries from the Calbridge

:08:21. > :08:24.universities of this world that do well but a huge number of countries

:08:25. > :08:31.-- companies with pharmaceutical provisions that are successful. I

:08:32. > :08:34.have been a member for the last 15 years and the heart of London we

:08:35. > :08:44.have a tremendous array higher education providers. Kings College

:08:45. > :08:49.London, Imperial College and justice take my constituency, University

:08:50. > :08:55.College London. These are globally successful universities and the

:08:56. > :09:00.dominance of the popular culture of Oxbridge is being threatened by the

:09:01. > :09:06.raising standards of these four universities in London which are

:09:07. > :09:12.global players and what thex do I also have one of the sites of the

:09:13. > :09:19.London Metropolitan Univershty in my area. I work with a number of MPs

:09:20. > :09:25.across the House to try to lake a case for its continued existence in

:09:26. > :09:29.these troubled times. I havd heard some of the debates taking place

:09:30. > :09:36.earlier on today, in relation to the idea of a loving and universities to

:09:37. > :09:39.feel, I do think it is an ilportant part of any developing ecosxstem. I

:09:40. > :09:44.do not deny for one minute that there are implications with students

:09:45. > :09:48.that could not be ignored. H do believe it is a healthy state of

:09:49. > :09:55.affairs that if universities are not doing the job and are not providing

:09:56. > :09:59.the education they should bd, there isn't the quality or demand, they

:10:00. > :10:04.should not be preserved just because they have existed as institttions

:10:05. > :10:09.for a long time. Let me see how much I welcome the legislation. H will

:10:10. > :10:11.focus my brief comments on part one book which is the creation of the

:10:12. > :10:31.office for students. They make the Tory system h`s

:10:32. > :10:39.advanced in a battling manndr. The Office for Fair Access. In like

:10:40. > :10:45.three this mechanism we can get rid of the overlaps. I support

:10:46. > :10:50.wholeheartedly ignition of students as consumers. They are far lore

:10:51. > :10:55.consumerist dig them this thme in the 1980s some this is a positive

:10:56. > :11:00.thing, one of the by-products are paying for their education leans

:11:01. > :11:10.they want to get good value, much the poor repetitive teaching. They

:11:11. > :11:14.will want to ensure that thd facilities academic and non`cademic

:11:15. > :11:20.are a higher quality and st`ndard. When I see an Ali-macro

:11:21. > :11:27.undergraduates, I'm struck by how focused they are in getting the

:11:28. > :11:33.best. When most soldiers regret for a bygone decade. It is a he`lthy

:11:34. > :11:38.state of affairs that students take that seriously. I think that there

:11:39. > :11:46.will implicitly recognises ht. I also recognise, we do need full

:11:47. > :11:49.scrutiny in committee and the other place at the bar plenty of X in this

:11:50. > :11:55.field. Obviously there are concerns about the granting of provisional

:11:56. > :12:02.degrees by the honourable gdntleman for Blackpool South. The proposals

:12:03. > :12:09.to relax the criteria for v`lidating powers will need to be lookdd at and

:12:10. > :12:16.scrutinised fully. I have some sympathy with the dad because the

:12:17. > :12:19.title of the University is ` much respected title, should quite

:12:20. > :12:26.clearly be protected and th`t, and we will need to do this as this bill

:12:27. > :12:32.goes through. I hope and will providers in the locality, `nd try

:12:33. > :12:37.to make sure if we have a sxstem that does not focus on markdt

:12:38. > :12:40.figures, that we recognise how interests have to be protected. I

:12:41. > :12:48.fundamentally groovy now universities unit as to fail or the

:12:49. > :12:53.old established to fail. It strikes that there are range of regtlar Tory

:12:54. > :13:02.relationships that will need to be clarified. -- regular

:13:03. > :13:13.relationships. One thing th`t will be debated and committee will be

:13:14. > :13:20.government and ministerial interference. We need to make sure

:13:21. > :13:29.that the institutions maint`in academic freedom going forw`rd.

:13:30. > :13:36.Tettey take this opportunitx to congratulate the Secretary of State

:13:37. > :13:39.on the ambitious proposals set out. She has shown itself willing to put

:13:40. > :14:02.excellence and elitism at the heart of the education system. I regard

:14:03. > :14:03.the importance of competition, variety and consumer choice as being

:14:04. > :14:23.critical. I'm delighted that there must the centre

:14:24. > :14:27.of educational policy. -- that they are putting this at the centre. A

:14:28. > :14:31.pleasure to follow the honotrable gentleman, whatever else we disagree

:14:32. > :14:36.about, I respect the fact that he has pointed out the damage to the

:14:37. > :14:43.high educational system of hll thought out commitments and

:14:44. > :14:53.policies. I note the cushion in his speech about the regulation for new

:14:54. > :14:59.providers. As my honourable friend said in his excellent speech, and

:15:00. > :15:03.others have referred referrdd to. This comes at a time when

:15:04. > :15:09.institutions are reeling from the Brexit vote. Drafting of thd bill

:15:10. > :15:16.and the associated consultation took place in the context of an dxpected

:15:17. > :15:21.Remain resolved. The uncert`inties about replacing EU research funding,

:15:22. > :15:25.and the position of the loose students would be good enough reason

:15:26. > :15:34.in themselves to put this legislation on hold, to givd both

:15:35. > :15:37.this House and the government the opportunity of ensuring that the

:15:38. > :15:42.framework for higher educathon and research is fit for purpose in a

:15:43. > :15:47.post-Brexit world. There ard other concerns about this bill. Whilst I

:15:48. > :15:52.don't have a problem in principle with facilitating new providers and

:15:53. > :15:55.more choice in the sector, there are strong grounds for proceeding more

:15:56. > :16:00.carefully than the government proposes. As I think the honourable

:16:01. > :16:07.member who has just spoken `s hinted at. It is likely that limitdd

:16:08. > :16:11.government finance will be further stretched, when funding per student

:16:12. > :16:17.is already under enormous pressure. And because there is a risk that

:16:18. > :16:20.failure by new providers will be bad for students, and damage thd

:16:21. > :16:27.reputation of UK higher education more widely. Let's remember that UK

:16:28. > :16:33.universities and research are presently a huge national asset An

:16:34. > :16:37.area of competitive strateghc advantage, which will be evdn wore

:16:38. > :16:44.important, both economicallx and culturally as we strive to lake a

:16:45. > :16:47.success of life outside the EU. Further Pacific concerns have been

:16:48. > :16:52.drawn to my attention by Oxford University. Clause 23, provhding for

:16:53. > :17:03.the assessment of standards as well as quality, is an extension of

:17:04. > :17:08.regulatory power, and infringes our autonomy. We need to hear from the

:17:09. > :17:15.government about how this whll be used. The power of students to

:17:16. > :17:19.revoke by order the acts of Parliament or real charters,

:17:20. > :17:24.establishing their universities The ability to dismantle so much with so

:17:25. > :17:29.little by way of Parliament`ry scrutiny cannot be right. Mtch

:17:30. > :17:35.stronger scrutiny and protection is needed. I'm grateful to my

:17:36. > :17:39.honourable friend, is it not incumbent on the Minister when he

:17:40. > :17:44.winds up this debate to givd a categorical instruments to the

:17:45. > :17:47.House, where the rights and entitlements prescribed in Royal

:17:48. > :17:53.Charter are deleted, they whll be reinstated by the government? Yes,

:17:54. > :17:58.indeed. There must be scruthny by this House. These are acts of

:17:59. > :18:06.parliament being overturned by an order, extraordinary. Furthdr

:18:07. > :18:10.worries in the bill, as far as the structural research funding are

:18:11. > :18:13.concerned. It'd be Secretarx of State a long time to get on

:18:14. > :18:19.research. While the governmdnt's stated intention is to keep the

:18:20. > :18:23.jewel funding principle, all research funding is to be the

:18:24. > :18:28.responsibility of the proposed UK research and innovation bodx. There

:18:29. > :18:36.is no explicit provision for ring fenced funding for anything other

:18:37. > :18:41.than specific pieces of work. It is not clear in practice how jdwel

:18:42. > :18:46.funding is to be delivered. The call in the bill for a balanced funding

:18:47. > :18:50.principle for which the Secretary of State has to have regard to is

:18:51. > :18:55.vague. I put it to the government it is crucial for future UK research

:18:56. > :19:04.capacity to strengthen the commitment to jewel support on the

:19:05. > :19:08.face of the bill. -- dual. There is no mention of the higher edtcation

:19:09. > :19:13.and innovation fund. The bill divides teaching and research

:19:14. > :19:19.artificially, where several off the cue go together. Especially at

:19:20. > :19:24.higher levels. Such is the work in museums, and the well founddd

:19:25. > :19:27.laboratory principle. We re`lly do need to see proper recognithon of

:19:28. > :19:32.this in the bill. Similarly, there is a huge omission in their not

:19:33. > :19:37.being any requirement for UK research and innovation to provide

:19:38. > :19:42.for postgraduate research education and training. That is cruci`l for

:19:43. > :19:49.graduates moving on into thd high-tech sector. He was prdviously

:19:50. > :19:54.regarded as of such importance, rightly regarded, that the research

:19:55. > :20:01.councils had it written into their real charters. Why is it not in this

:20:02. > :20:08.bill? It certainly should bd. It's also alarming, that in the

:20:09. > :20:14.provisions for the bill, cl`use 84, research councils could be `bolished

:20:15. > :20:19.or merged by order. That is surely something sufficiently serious,

:20:20. > :20:24.potentially affecting whole areas of research, that Parliament should

:20:25. > :20:27.have proper oversight. Mr Ddputy Speaker, there is much wrong with

:20:28. > :20:38.this bill. It is spectacularly ill timed. The government should take it

:20:39. > :20:43.away, consult and think agahn. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, gratdful to

:20:44. > :20:47.contribute to this important debate. I welcome the bill, particularly

:20:48. > :20:52.liking its focus on enabling students to make an informed choice

:20:53. > :20:58.about their university options. I have had concerns for some time that

:20:59. > :21:01.too many students regard an immediate traditional campus-based

:21:02. > :21:07.undergraduate degree as thehr only option. In saying that in no way do

:21:08. > :21:12.I want to diminish the importance of such degrees. For many, absolutely

:21:13. > :21:16.the right option. They should not be restrictions on the numbers. If it

:21:17. > :21:21.is right for the person, thdy should do it. It should be a posithve

:21:22. > :21:26.choice, not regarded as a ddfault option. I wish students to be able

:21:27. > :21:31.to look at all options open to them, choosing what works best for them.

:21:32. > :21:35.Whether that is a tradition`l degree, or it should be a p`rt-time

:21:36. > :21:39.degree, or even deferring it agreed to a later point in their c`reer. I

:21:40. > :21:44.welcome the proposals to establish new high-quality providers, offering

:21:45. > :21:50.different products, increashng the range of options for students. In

:21:51. > :21:55.addition, we should not forget to place provisions for the bill in the

:21:56. > :22:01.context of upscaling the workforce and lifelong working. I am proud to

:22:02. > :22:10.have in my constituency the open University, the shadow minister was

:22:11. > :22:15.a lecturer for some time. In 50 years of existence, I'm not saying

:22:16. > :22:20.the Gyan was there at the ottset, it has given opportunities to tpscale

:22:21. > :22:26.and rescale some 2 million people. I would like to quote, if I m`y, from

:22:27. > :22:31.the excellent briefing note the University distributed, it

:22:32. > :22:34.encapsulates the point. It hs essential that these far-re`ching

:22:35. > :22:40.proposals are not developed so leave through the policy loans of an

:22:41. > :22:45.18-year-old student entering higher education for the first timd.

:22:46. > :22:48.Rescaling in upscaling the `dult workforce are essential for future

:22:49. > :22:56.prosperity and success in the coming years, depending a lifelong learning

:22:57. > :23:01.culture, which which rests on three equal pillars, flexible lifdtime

:23:02. > :23:06.learning opportunities, refreshing and full-time studies. I welcome

:23:07. > :23:25.this bill. The changing of the restriction

:23:26. > :23:28.imposed in 2008, these will allow new students to apply for a Jewish

:23:29. > :23:34.and fee loan for a second p`rt-time honours degree in engineering,

:23:35. > :23:38.technology and computer scidnces. And for a wider range of part-time

:23:39. > :23:48.honours degrees seven coursds in 2017 and 2018. These will bd

:23:49. > :23:52.welcomed by the Open University Support for the part-time hhgher

:23:53. > :23:56.education sector, I would lhke to make two suggestions to be

:23:57. > :24:01.considered in committee. Thdre is a express commitment to part-time

:24:02. > :24:05.higher education and adult dducation in the proposed general duthes of

:24:06. > :24:10.the office for students. Confirmation that a broad r`nge of

:24:11. > :24:12.different types of English higher education providers should be

:24:13. > :24:21.recognised in the make up of the office forced youth and sport. -

:24:22. > :24:28.office for students bored. H hope these suggestions will be considered

:24:29. > :24:35.favourably in committee. Whhle I'm a topic of the Open Universitx, I

:24:36. > :24:39.would like to make is a reqtest -- make a request for clarific`tion,

:24:40. > :24:45.the Open University is the only university that has a footprint in

:24:46. > :24:50.Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland. Clause 75 of the

:24:51. > :24:56.bill talks about the English higher education provider, I would be

:24:57. > :24:59.grateful of the Minister will clarify that this definition applies

:25:00. > :25:06.to the Open University as wdll as other English -based universities.

:25:07. > :25:14.The second is about the Open University's waiters as a rdsearch

:25:15. > :25:19.body of excellence. They wish to note that it does not concentrate

:25:20. > :25:26.research into fewer institutions angry geographical locations, and

:25:27. > :25:35.re-searchers are offered rottes to support research and visions.

:25:36. > :25:45.I think there is huge potential for new entrants into the market. I very

:25:46. > :25:50.much agree with the comments of the principle of Pearson Collegd will

:25:51. > :25:56.stop she said it is clear that the dominance of one size fits `ll model

:25:57. > :26:02.of university education is over Students are calling out for

:26:03. > :26:04.pioneering institutions offdring alternative education models with an

:26:05. > :26:12.increased focus on skills to prepare them for the careers of the future.

:26:13. > :26:17.I would use Milton Keynes to illustrate this potential. Lembers

:26:18. > :26:22.might not be aware but Milton Keynes in January turns 50. It has reached

:26:23. > :26:26.its planned size in terms of population and also physical

:26:27. > :26:30.footprint. I apologise to the gentleman for Oxford East to help

:26:31. > :26:42.the -- help me make these comments in Westminster Hall last wedk. This

:26:43. > :26:47.is for the wider audience. H am grateful for that endorsement.

:26:48. > :26:53.Milton Keynes is actively ddbating what comes next having reached its

:26:54. > :27:00.planned size. There is a very live debate about what our futurd size

:27:01. > :27:05.and shape should be and what the Milton Keynes or 2050 should look

:27:06. > :27:10.like. For ourselves and also the place in the Oxford, Milton Keynes,

:27:11. > :27:13.Cambridge corridor. Which the former Chancellor announced in the budget,

:27:14. > :27:19.the National infrastructure commission will be exploring for

:27:20. > :27:25.growth potential. In Milton Keynes we have the open University. Nearby

:27:26. > :27:29.we have excellent universithes like Cranfield and Buckingham. Wd also

:27:30. > :27:35.have a healthy forge a educ`tion and higher education partnership in the

:27:36. > :27:39.centre of Milton Keynes. It has long been an aspiration for Milton Keynes

:27:40. > :27:45.to happy campers based univdrsity of its own to help generate economic

:27:46. > :27:54.growth and four economic and social benefits that university towns and

:27:55. > :28:01.cities enjoy. I do question if the answer is the traditional c`mpus.

:28:02. > :28:06.Shouldn't we try to indicatd something new G2 the sophistication

:28:07. > :28:16.of students? It brings the tradition of Milton Keynes. I was absolutely

:28:17. > :28:19.delighted that the recent sdtup of the Milton Keynes future colmission

:28:20. > :28:25.that was chaired by Sir Petdr Gregson, the vice Chancellor of

:28:26. > :28:28.Cranfield, has proposed as one of the central recommendation hs a

:28:29. > :28:35.Milton Keynes centre of technology. It would be like MIT. It wotld

:28:36. > :28:41.provide solutions to the ch`llenges that a fast-growing city faces. It

:28:42. > :28:44.would offer portfolio learnhng, reading lavatorial research and

:28:45. > :28:50.partnerships with the wide range of global institutions and employers.

:28:51. > :28:56.It could also be the institttion that fills the building skills gap

:28:57. > :29:00.that we face in the new intdlligent mobility market. We urgentlx need to

:29:01. > :29:06.train more people with skills in this sector. I also am proud to have

:29:07. > :29:09.an Milton Keynes the transport systems catapult. Working whth

:29:10. > :29:15.Government departments, thex have published research that shows it

:29:16. > :29:20.will be a gap in the hundreds of thousands of people's work that

:29:21. > :29:24.skill and a market that is going to be ?900 billion by 2025. If you want

:29:25. > :29:33.to have our share of the global market we need to focus on skills in

:29:34. > :29:40.this area. That is just one of the examples of the many opporttnities

:29:41. > :29:43.that exist in that area. Thd Bill provides huge opportunities for

:29:44. > :29:48.innovation. There is a crithcal link between the expansion of higher

:29:49. > :29:52.education, the prospect of local economies and the late challenges of

:29:53. > :29:57.people. I believe this Bill strengthens that link and look

:29:58. > :30:05.forward to supporting it tonight. I actually just want to pick tp where

:30:06. > :30:11.I honourable friend the Member for Oxford East liftoff. There hs much

:30:12. > :30:14.in this Bill that is long overdue. Much of the legislation is

:30:15. > :30:19.necessary. This Bill was wrhtten for a different time. It was wrhtten any

:30:20. > :30:23.different here. The risk is what the Minister is presenting to the House

:30:24. > :30:28.is a halfway House. He will leave us with the task of having to come back

:30:29. > :30:34.to some big strategic questhons and finish the job. The Secretary of was

:30:35. > :30:39.absolutely right to underline the necessity of this Bill. We need the

:30:40. > :30:43.strength of our higher educ`tion institutions like never before. In

:30:44. > :30:48.this post-referendum on Irap, we'll have to get better at making things

:30:49. > :30:51.more efficiently. The productivity growth that blights our economy

:30:52. > :30:56.today is actually worse than was at the end of the 1970s when wd used to

:30:57. > :31:00.call it a British disease. The problem with this Bill is that it

:31:01. > :31:04.does nothing to address the big strategic challenges that confront

:31:05. > :31:14.students, confront the science base and the school system. I want to

:31:15. > :31:19.talk about students. We know there's a big debate to be had about the

:31:20. > :31:25.financial viability of the student loan system. The Zac Dunn is not the

:31:26. > :31:28.afternoon or occasion to rehearse the fragility of the Ponzi scheme

:31:29. > :31:40.that underpins the system. ,- this afternoon. ?70 billion or ?80

:31:41. > :31:44.billion could be the debt write off. The student loans system as it is

:31:45. > :31:49.currently setup is not fit for purpose and it is not fit the

:31:50. > :31:54.future. There are a number of measures that the Mac -- Minister

:31:55. > :31:58.has proposed in this Bill to ensure a degree of transparency, freezing

:31:59. > :32:03.the thresholds for the studdnt loan payments. The truth is we nded an

:32:04. > :32:07.entire overhaul of the transparency of this system because we nded this

:32:08. > :32:12.system to work well and quit frankly, too often they are looking

:32:13. > :32:18.through a class Archway try to figure out what is going on. I am

:32:19. > :32:19.also disappointed bidders not enough in this Bill about lifelong

:32:20. > :32:23.learning. There is nothing hn it learning. There is nothing hn it

:32:24. > :32:33.about workplace learning. I would like to see a bold revolution in the

:32:34. > :32:40.way that... So it is possible for to go from ABC to Ph.D. In the

:32:41. > :32:43.workplace. In a world where you can get an online learning course to

:32:44. > :32:48.your smartphone, that must be possible. We do not have thd

:32:49. > :32:53.qualifications system to make that a reality or bodily health policy and

:32:54. > :32:58.erect place. The second big challenge the science base. -- we do

:32:59. > :33:06.not have that policy in the right place. There's nothing in this Bill

:33:07. > :33:14.that actually confronts the big strategic challenge for scidnce in

:33:15. > :33:19.this country. We are plummeting down the league tables when it comes to

:33:20. > :33:24.science spending. If you ye`rs ago the Royal Society said, unldss we

:33:25. > :33:29.grow smarter, we will go poor. If the global race is anything, it is a

:33:30. > :33:35.science base and we are falling behind today. By 2019 China will

:33:36. > :33:38.become the world's biggest science player and we already losing the

:33:39. > :33:44.race for good-quality high-tech jobs of the future. We're not gohng to

:33:45. > :33:50.fix a strategic challenge lhke that if we language at 23rd out of 3 the

:33:51. > :33:55.OECD countries. Countries around the world, big competitors like Japan

:33:56. > :34:00.and Korea, countries in Scandinavia, are now spending 3% of GDP on

:34:01. > :34:07.science, each and every year. We spend something like 1.3% on GDP on

:34:08. > :34:12.science. We would need to code in and add public spending of ?23

:34:13. > :34:17.billion every route to bring science spending in this country up to the

:34:18. > :34:21.level of our strongest compdtitors. It is not clear if we had a 10-year

:34:22. > :34:25.framework for science funding any more. I do not see anything in this

:34:26. > :34:30.Bill about strengthening thd position which I think is bdcoming

:34:31. > :34:34.extremely serious. At a timd when so many universities are having huge

:34:35. > :34:38.holes punched in the sciencd base and the science funding bec`use of

:34:39. > :34:42.the decision come out of Europe We would lead an awful lot mord from

:34:43. > :34:46.the Secretary of State this afternoon about how we were going to

:34:47. > :34:49.tackle this looming crisis. The food challenge I want to touch on very

:34:50. > :34:54.briefly is the challenge th`t worries me most. That is whx there

:34:55. > :35:02.is nothing in this Bill to `djust the revolution we need in the tech

:35:03. > :35:05.system in this country. We know how to design jewellery track education

:35:06. > :35:10.systems because we did that for Germany after the Second World War.

:35:11. > :35:14.We've got to do it for oursdlves. What Percy said to his Housd in

:35:15. > :35:20.1944, the position of Great Britain as a leading industrial nathons ..

:35:21. > :35:26.The failure to secure the application of science to industry

:35:27. > :35:30.and that failure is due to deficiencies in education. The

:35:31. > :35:38.problem is what was true in 194 is now true today. We do not h`ve a

:35:39. > :35:47.strong general tax system. ,- strong track system. We have a risd in

:35:48. > :35:52.unqualified science teachers in our classroom. We have the caredrs

:35:53. > :35:57.service that the CBI said is on life support. We have a further dducation

:35:58. > :35:59.system that was cut by 40% hn the last parliament. We have an

:36:00. > :36:05.apprenticeship system that hs growing the number of level twos.

:36:06. > :36:12.Just 100 apprentices on levdl five in my home city. In Birmingham. Just

:36:13. > :36:17.2% of apprentices today go on to level five study. It has bedn a 14%

:36:18. > :36:23.fall on the number of peopld on each end thes and foundation degrees

:36:24. > :36:27.Those people seeking a technical path to higher education from the

:36:28. > :36:34.age of 14 up until 21 go through a system that is overseen by Ofsted,

:36:35. > :36:39.the AQAP, the EFA and the SFA. I know the office for students. It is

:36:40. > :36:46.a dog 's breakfast. We need a holistic review to put in place a

:36:47. > :36:50.single comprehensive system for technical education. That mdans

:36:51. > :36:55.anyone from the age of 14 ldarning technical education and rebtilding

:36:56. > :36:57.the courier service, high-qtality, Gold standard apprenticeships with

:36:58. > :37:03.everyone studying English and maths will stop a new degree of

:37:04. > :37:06.specialisation in our colleges and institutes of technical excdllence.

:37:07. > :37:10.An apprenticeship system th`t gives at least half of young people the

:37:11. > :37:16.chance of taking a technical apprenticeship up until levdl five.

:37:17. > :37:18.We know how to do this becatse British companies like Jagu`r

:37:19. > :37:21.Landrover and British aerospace are running these apprenticeship

:37:22. > :37:28.schemes. They are harder to get into the net is to get into Oxford

:37:29. > :37:31.University today. Crucially, we need a new partnership between ftrther

:37:32. > :37:35.education and higher educathon. We should be emulating the best

:37:36. > :37:39.practice of the United Statds. It is possible to do the first cotple

:37:40. > :37:44.years of your degree at the further education college before moving on

:37:45. > :37:51.to finish in a couple of ye`rs at a world-class higher education

:37:52. > :37:55.institution. That is why thd duty to collaborate is so vital for this

:37:56. > :38:00.Bill. That is why it is such a problem that is missing frol this

:38:01. > :38:04.Bill. We have been burying our scientists with sovereigns since the

:38:05. > :38:10.death of Sir Isaac Newton. There is no other country on the earth that

:38:11. > :38:16.would get a BAFTA for the fhlm of how great sciences. One or one of

:38:17. > :38:24.the world's great signs powdrs. That position is now in jeopardy. --

:38:25. > :38:27.science power. We needed a Bill that would absolutely be placed higher

:38:28. > :38:37.education as the powerhouse it needs to be for our country's futtre. Very

:38:38. > :38:42.grateful to have the opporttnity to speak in this debate. I would like

:38:43. > :38:46.to place on record that I rdally welcome the new Secretary of state

:38:47. > :38:52.to her role. I am also pleased to see the Minister in his place.

:38:53. > :38:58.Following this through the House, he has spent many months working on the

:38:59. > :39:02.green paper and more recently, the white paper. I would also lhke to

:39:03. > :39:07.say that I welcome the news that further education and higher

:39:08. > :39:10.education will be pulled into the Department for Education. I noted

:39:11. > :39:16.the comments made by my honourable friend, the Member for Strotd, about

:39:17. > :39:22.the workload as a Select Colmittee increasing significantly. Mx

:39:23. > :39:25.workload megajoules as the joint subcommittee for education `nd

:39:26. > :39:36.skills and the economy might be short lived. -- my workload might

:39:37. > :39:40.reduce. We have an expanding higher education system, world-class

:39:41. > :39:43.universities and home to ball-mac out of the world's top ten

:39:44. > :39:50.universities, second only to the USA. That is why I welcome to the

:39:51. > :39:58.higher education and research Bill. The research axis trademark as an

:39:59. > :40:03.established way of incentivhsing and accessing high quality rese`rch The

:40:04. > :40:07.higher education sector has been too heavily geared to prioritisd

:40:08. > :40:11.academic research. This Bill looks to achieve a much better balance.

:40:12. > :40:17.Placing emphasis on those things that matters to students, p`rents,

:40:18. > :40:21.and also employers. We need to ensure that students are getting

:40:22. > :40:25.value for money. And at the end of the degree, they feel they have

:40:26. > :40:29.gained from the university experience. And critically, can

:40:30. > :40:34.progress on to graduate jobs or further study. We need to ensure

:40:35. > :40:45.that we do not hear students saying things like wars university really

:40:46. > :40:50.worth it? Just takes on backs, Mr Deputy Speaker, a survey showed that

:40:51. > :40:54.a third of students said thdy would immediately different decishon if

:40:55. > :41:00.they knew what the new now. Another survey showed that around 20% of

:41:01. > :41:00.employed graduates are in nonprofessional rolls 3.5 ydars

:41:01. > :41:09.after graduating. Students need better inform`tion

:41:10. > :41:17.about the courses and universities they are looking at and support into

:41:18. > :41:23.graduate roles. I welcome the support for the office for Students,

:41:24. > :41:29.the main regulatory body for higher education. Promoting equality,

:41:30. > :41:36.greater choice and opportunhties for tutors will stop specifically the

:41:37. > :41:42.Office for Students will be promoting the excellence fr`mework.

:41:43. > :41:46.We have heard a lot about this, it was a key Conservative manifesto

:41:47. > :41:51.commitment. The teaching excellence framework will put into place

:41:52. > :41:54.incentives designed to drivd up the standard of teaching in

:41:55. > :42:00.universities, providing students with greater clarity as to where

:42:01. > :42:05.teaching is best, and the bdnefits they can expect to gain frol their

:42:06. > :42:08.course. This will, in turn, create more competition in the sector,

:42:09. > :42:13.continuing to drive up the standard of teaching. Helping students

:42:14. > :42:20.progress into employment or further study. The business, innovation and

:42:21. > :42:26.skills select committee, whhch I am a member of, so if the membdr for

:42:27. > :42:32.Sheffield Central. Conducted an enquiry looking at the new teaching

:42:33. > :42:36.excellence framework. As a committee we welcome and endorsed the

:42:37. > :42:41.government's focus on teachhng quality, agreeing that a stronger

:42:42. > :42:45.incentive to focus on teachhng quality well help to ensure that

:42:46. > :42:48.higher educational instituthons meet student expectations, and ilprove on

:42:49. > :42:54.their leading international position. While the rationale for it

:42:55. > :42:58.was accepted by the sector, questions and concerns were raised

:42:59. > :43:03.as to the potential metrics used, and how it would affect thehr

:43:04. > :43:11.institution, and how they would apply. Specifically concerns raised

:43:12. > :43:16.as the link to the proposed metrics, employability, retention,

:43:17. > :43:20.satisfaction with teaching puality. Any potential unintended

:43:21. > :43:24.consequences which could arhse from institutions seeking to opthmise

:43:25. > :43:31.their score on each of the letrics. Whilst learning James, that was

:43:32. > :43:36.suggested as an alternative, one which other countries are exploring,

:43:37. > :43:40.work still needs to be done to establish an effective way of

:43:41. > :43:45.measuring this will stop thd Higher Education Funding Council for

:43:46. > :43:51.England is carrying out a phlot study, looking at learning game

:43:52. > :43:58.while added value metrics m`y work, that this could take two or three

:43:59. > :44:04.years to develop. As a commhttee we called on all parties to establish

:44:05. > :44:10.the speedy establishment of viable metrics related to learning game.

:44:11. > :44:15.The technical conservation was there, an opportunity for the sector

:44:16. > :44:20.to engage further with the development of the teaching

:44:21. > :44:24.framework. And ways that gr`duate employment could be measured. The

:44:25. > :44:33.development of additional mdtrics is key to ensuring they can be

:44:34. > :44:38.incorporated by year three, as set out in the white paper, published in

:44:39. > :44:44.May. The technical consultation closed in July, I will be interested

:44:45. > :44:51.to know when the Minister comes to the wind-up Conor Coady upd`te the

:44:52. > :44:53.House on the progress being made to develop new metrics, those

:44:54. > :45:01.considered, and what pilots have been undertaken. The need to pilot

:45:02. > :45:12.the teaching education framdwork, and the metrics, means it w`s

:45:13. > :45:19.welcome news that the speed in which TEF would be brought in, and in

:45:20. > :45:26.relation to fees. We need to make sure the sector is in this that --

:45:27. > :45:32.sector is in a sound financhal footing. An increasing numbdr of

:45:33. > :45:34.students are accessing the sector. With the student loan systel,

:45:35. > :45:39.students don't need to meet the costs of University upfront. Labour

:45:40. > :45:44.created a provision in law to maintain tuition fees in line with

:45:45. > :45:50.inflation in the higher educational activity vows and four. Between

:45:51. > :45:57.2007-10, Labour raised fees in line with inflation every year the Jewish

:45:58. > :46:04.set in 2012, ?9,000, it is hn real terms only worth a thousand ?50 . It

:46:05. > :46:13.is expected to arrive service, to ?1000 by the end of the parliament.

:46:14. > :46:16.- like ?8,000. There has bedn no accountability when it comes with

:46:17. > :46:21.the juice and raising this fees in line with inflation. With the real

:46:22. > :46:27.value of tuition fees declining and concerns in the sector maintaining

:46:28. > :46:31.levels of investment, we nedd to find ways for universities to

:46:32. > :46:38.increase fees, in such a wax that they are fair and accountable. The

:46:39. > :46:45.TEF has a role to play. All parties need to work together designing TEF,

:46:46. > :46:52.and the metrics used in practice. I'm pleased that the white paper

:46:53. > :46:56.confirmed that in 2017 and 08, it will be used as a trial year for

:46:57. > :47:01.TEF, and I'm sure the higher education sector will welcole the

:47:02. > :47:08.virginity to make more technical consultation. In relation to TEF and

:47:09. > :47:13.fees, I was pleased to read an article by Steve Smith, the Vice

:47:14. > :47:21.Chancellor of the Universitx of Exeter, is who despite concdrns the

:47:22. > :47:33.details stated, he said in his view it is important we go forward with

:47:34. > :47:37.the TEF. The quality of higher education is important to students

:47:38. > :47:44.and universe by the UK univdrsities board endorsed the relationship

:47:45. > :47:47.between TEF and fee rises. He went on to say, the government w`nts

:47:48. > :47:53.something for something. For the economy and students. For the

:47:54. > :47:56.economy the TEF offers a wax to support the improvement in the

:47:57. > :48:04.context of higher education, through the creation of graduates whth the

:48:05. > :48:09.skills needed by this and industry. For students, a funding mechanism

:48:10. > :48:13.allowing institutions to invest in teaching and student experidnce

:48:14. > :48:19.preserving and enhancing thd quality of education in universities stop

:48:20. > :48:23.the Deputy speaker, I would like to turn to the idea of new universities

:48:24. > :48:34.entering the market. Our economy needs more graduates. Over half of

:48:35. > :48:41.the job vacancies between now and 2022 will need graduates. Lhfting

:48:42. > :48:47.the cap on numbers means more places for universities will be made

:48:48. > :48:51.available I am most grateful to my honourable friend, has she lade any

:48:52. > :48:57.study of the outrageous dissemination currently suffered by

:48:58. > :49:03.English students studying in Scottish universities, after we come

:49:04. > :49:07.out of the European Union? H think my honourable friend makes ` very

:49:08. > :49:13.interesting point. I'm sure there will be further discussions about

:49:14. > :49:17.this going forwards. Terms of the numbers, excellent news that record

:49:18. > :49:22.numbers of students are sectring a university place. The portion of

:49:23. > :49:27.young people from disadvant`ged backgrounds going to higher

:49:28. > :49:30.education is up, too. UCAS data shows young people from the most

:49:31. > :49:36.disadvantaged backgrounds are replying to record rate for the

:49:37. > :49:43.2016-17 year. This is excellent progress. With more skills needed in

:49:44. > :49:50.the workplace, the sector c`nnot stand still. That is why I welcome

:49:51. > :49:53.aspects of part one of the bill making it easier for new

:49:54. > :49:58.universities to enter the m`rket. This means more places can be

:49:59. > :50:03.created, students have more choice, and encouraging greater divdrsity

:50:04. > :50:08.and innovation in the sector. Would she Devil welcomed the news that

:50:09. > :50:12.Chinese investors propose to take over the Staffordshire Univdrsity

:50:13. > :50:18.campus, vacated by Staffordshire University in Stafford, to provide

:50:19. > :50:25.precisely that additional choice and excellence she refers to? I thank my

:50:26. > :50:30.honourable friend, and constituency neighbour for his point. He is

:50:31. > :50:33.absolutely right. He must bd reading over my shoulder, I was just going

:50:34. > :50:39.to talk about Staffordshire University. I currently do not have

:50:40. > :50:43.a university in Cannock Chase. We have businesses and organis`tions

:50:44. > :50:50.who have close relationships with Staffordshire University, I have

:50:51. > :50:53.constituency were tender. Pdrhaps one day I will have a new university

:50:54. > :50:59.in my own constituency of C`nnock Chase. To conclude, we have a

:51:00. > :51:03.world-class higher educational sector, we cannot be complacent How

:51:04. > :51:09.are economy needs high-qualhty graduates, are graduates nedd skills

:51:10. > :51:12.to contribute to our economx. I welcome the higher education and

:51:13. > :51:15.research bill, demonstrating the government has a clear plan for

:51:16. > :51:24.education, building on the progress already made. Mr Deputy Spe`ker the

:51:25. > :51:28.bill currently before us Tudsday the second reading comes at a thme great

:51:29. > :51:33.change. The most important of which is my birthday today. Not that long

:51:34. > :51:39.ago I was sitting in the Minister's chair. In those days I lookdd more

:51:40. > :51:48.like Denzel Washington. To day I looked like Forest Whitaker. Last

:51:49. > :51:52.week's reshuffle saw the brhef for the Department for Education, a new

:51:53. > :51:57.Education Secretary promoted, together with a new Business

:51:58. > :52:02.Secretary. I have to say, sdrving as universities and skills Minhster in

:52:03. > :52:06.the Department for innovation, universities and skills,

:52:07. > :52:10.subsequently in the Departmdnt for business, innovation and skhlls

:52:11. > :52:16.when universities switched from education to business, it bdcame

:52:17. > :52:20.clear to me, this move gave higher education, and the sector as a whole

:52:21. > :52:26.and much more prominent voice in government. This is because placing

:52:27. > :52:35.universities under the umbrdlla of business and innovation meant there

:52:36. > :52:42.was always a clear and implhcit comparison between innovation,

:52:43. > :52:47.skills and prosperity, and laking sure we have the skills to power our

:52:48. > :52:52.economy. The education they provide was seen by number ten, the

:52:53. > :52:57.Treasury, and Cabinet ministers from across government as absolutely

:52:58. > :53:03.central to what the governmdnt was trying to achieve. The impact of

:53:04. > :53:10.reducing influence in Whitehall which is inevitable, with this move,

:53:11. > :53:17.and there was much debate at the time, there will Vice Chancdllor 's

:53:18. > :53:24.concern when it was created. The universal view was that it would

:53:25. > :53:28.benefit. I'm very concerned at this change, not being commented on so

:53:29. > :53:35.far. Clearly is the backdrop for this field. I asked the minhster,

:53:36. > :53:40.what will happen if our universities are no longer seen as integral to

:53:41. > :53:46.driving innovation and feasting prosperity. What will happen when

:53:47. > :53:50.they spending review comes `round, and universities are fighting

:53:51. > :53:55.schools for resources, and lose out? What will happen when there is

:53:56. > :54:00.pressure to tighten visa rules for students to try and meet migration

:54:01. > :54:05.targets? We worked hard to beat off the Home Office, I was one of those

:54:06. > :54:10.ministers, the Minister will not admit it, but it is a regul`r part

:54:11. > :54:15.of the job. My God, it will be harder placed in the Departlent for

:54:16. > :54:18.Education and Skills doing ht. In each case, the voice of universities

:54:19. > :54:25.will carry less weight as a consequence. Grateful to thd right

:54:26. > :54:30.honourable member. He will have the intervention by my honourable friend

:54:31. > :54:36.for Cannock Chase, citing Shr Steve Smith, the Vice Chancellor of Exeter

:54:37. > :54:41.University. A huge amount of overseas students at Exeter

:54:42. > :54:45.universities, one of the le`ding universities in the country, not

:54:46. > :54:50.only the world. The Minister shares might do visas. This period of

:54:51. > :54:54.uncertainty because of Brexht and these restrictions, many ard living

:54:55. > :55:03.in a state of fear, not least European funding, and the fdar about

:55:04. > :55:06.the Visa regime. That was the point I was making. Some of the tdnsions

:55:07. > :55:14.in Whitehall, particularly dmanating from the Home Office, lies behind

:55:15. > :55:20.the problem. Another problel has been mentioned by honourabld

:55:21. > :55:25.members, not least Birmingh`m Hodge Hill, and my friend, the melber for

:55:26. > :55:30.Oxford. The vote to leave the European Union has made the future

:55:31. > :55:36.very uncertain indeed for hhgher education institutions. When looking

:55:37. > :55:39.at the bill, the government surely acknowledge the need is timd to

:55:40. > :55:43.provide greater certainty, not further instability. The higher

:55:44. > :55:47.education sector will be particularly at first the affected

:55:48. > :55:51.by the UK's decision to leave the European Union. Brexit will

:55:52. > :55:55.significantly diminish rese`rch funding across universities unless

:55:56. > :55:59.the government is proposing a large-scale programme for rdsearch

:56:00. > :56:01.funding across all disciplines to fill the gap. Interesting to hear

:56:02. > :56:20.from the Minister on that. The campaign from the leave group of

:56:21. > :56:26.250 million per week was fictitious. I am sure the House will welcome a

:56:27. > :56:32.similar promise today that `ny lost research funding will be replaced. I

:56:33. > :56:36.have forward to hearing frol the ministers. Universities facd the

:56:37. > :56:43.prospect of losing across the board. How will universities fail hn this

:56:44. > :56:46.post Brexit world when the calls to curb immigration inevitably come?

:56:47. > :56:51.Universities that have been warning for years that making student visas

:56:52. > :56:57.harder to come by is having a hugely damaging effect as has just been

:56:58. > :57:00.mentioned by the Honourable Member. The Vice Chancellor for the

:57:01. > :57:04.University of Sheffield esthmates that 40% of his income from teaching

:57:05. > :57:12.comes from international sttdents and non-UK students generatd ?1

:57:13. > :57:18.billion for the wider UK economy. Almost 100,000 students had a visas

:57:19. > :57:24.cut short between 2013-15 and between 2010-15, the number of

:57:25. > :57:29.overseas students arriving hn the UK fell by 25%. This is not just about

:57:30. > :57:37.money. What message does Brdxit send out? The world leading reputation of

:57:38. > :57:43.higher education sector is contingent on the perception of the

:57:44. > :57:45.UK as a global country. It hs this reputation that attracts investment,

:57:46. > :57:52.drives partnerships across the globe and helps cement the place of our

:57:53. > :57:57.universities at the top of the tree internationally. This reput`tion is

:57:58. > :58:02.at risk. The Government must take a step back, take stock at how Brexit

:58:03. > :58:06.will impact on our universities and then come back to the House with the

:58:07. > :58:13.revised Bill when that impact becomes clearer. I see that in the

:58:14. > :58:18.strongest sense. When the Mhnister was working so hard, and he is a

:58:19. > :58:25.very hard-working Minister, we are all aware of that, but frankly, the

:58:26. > :58:30.biggest culture running through this Bill is a Brexit. It would be great

:58:31. > :58:37.to hear something from the Linister about that. I am also proud of the

:58:38. > :58:44.work that the last game bird -- Labour Government debt in hhgher

:58:45. > :58:50.education. An additional 15$ of university places went to students

:58:51. > :58:53.from poor neighbourhoods, hhred education expanded with funding for

:58:54. > :58:58.state schools and the introduction of the education maintenancd

:58:59. > :59:02.allowance, more students from disadvantaged backgrounds wdre able

:59:03. > :59:08.to go on to university than ever before in our history. In 2010, two

:59:09. > :59:16.million people were studying in university, a record number and

:59:17. > :59:20.400,000 were studying in 1987. It is a record achievement. They `re

:59:21. > :59:24.officials sitting in the box that brought the statistics at the time.

:59:25. > :59:30.In this time of flux, it is crucial that we do not take a step backwards

:59:31. > :59:35.when it comes to improving `ccess to our universities. Earlier this year

:59:36. > :59:38.the previous Prime Minister announced plans to force

:59:39. > :59:43.universities to disclose applicant data so we could see how

:59:44. > :59:48.universities are doing on access. The Government has a target in place

:59:49. > :59:51.to double the proportion of pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds

:59:52. > :59:55.entering universities. Together with a 20% increase in the number of

:59:56. > :00:01.students from black, Asian `nd minority backgrounds. In thhs time

:00:02. > :00:05.of flux, the House will need assurances that this agenda will be

:00:06. > :00:09.taken very seriously indeed. And that it will be driven from the

:00:10. > :00:15.centre, especially as the social market foundation 's partichpation

:00:16. > :00:23.report warned in March that both of these targets will be missed on

:00:24. > :00:25.current trends. The director of the access to higher education has

:00:26. > :00:29.warned that on current trends, both of these targets will be missed

:00:30. > :00:35.given that only 21% of univdrsities have it or are on course to meet all

:00:36. > :00:42.of the access targets. The figures are striking. Between 2005-05, the

:00:43. > :00:46.proportion of the intake of the university is coming from poor

:00:47. > :00:55.backgrounds has gone up. It has gone up from 19.5% to just 20.8%. That is

:00:56. > :01:01.1% in one decade. It is not even close to being acceptable. Seven of

:01:02. > :01:09.the 24th Russell group univdrsities has seen the percentage of deprived

:01:10. > :01:14.students fall in the last ddcade according to the higher education

:01:15. > :01:17.statistics agency. That includes Oxford, Cambridge and Durhal. Only

:01:18. > :01:25.4% of students at the top tdn universities are from the most

:01:26. > :01:30.disadvantaged areas. An increase of 0.6% since 2009. Just 3.6% of

:01:31. > :01:36.Cambridge students and 2.4% of Oxford students are from thd 20 of

:01:37. > :01:44.areas with the lowest highest education participation levdls. I

:01:45. > :01:47.know that the new Prime Minhster is making her mark by ensuring the

:01:48. > :01:54.front bench is not overreprdsented with independent schools but it is

:01:55. > :01:57.important to put on record why this is important. Independent school

:01:58. > :02:03.pupils are almost three timds more likely to be accepted into the 3

:02:04. > :02:09.most selective universities compared to comprehensive school students.

:02:10. > :02:13.Acceptance rates are 48.2% prepared to 18%. State pupils in Hamlersmith

:02:14. > :02:21.and Fulham are ten times as likely to be accepted into a highlx

:02:22. > :02:25.selective university and 50 times I accepted to Oxford computer pupils

:02:26. > :02:30.in Hackney. Four schools and one College send more students to

:02:31. > :02:34.Oxbridge than the bottom 2000 colleges and schools put together

:02:35. > :02:41.every year. Thank you for ghving way. Will he accept that by the

:02:42. > :02:45.removal of caps on university places, it was a dramatic

:02:46. > :02:49.transformation in allowing those from disadvantaged areas of all

:02:50. > :02:54.backgrounds to apply to universities and have a place. Places ard limited

:02:55. > :03:00.then that minutes late chances from the very start. I do not accept

:03:01. > :03:04.that, I am afraid. The cat does not help when it comes to fair `ccess.

:03:05. > :03:10.All it does is help more chhnless wonders for more public schools to

:03:11. > :03:16.get in. A hundred elite schools accounted for 3% of the tot`l of

:03:17. > :03:21.31.9% of admissions to Oxbrhdge The same proportion as 2008. We have

:03:22. > :03:27.seen absolutely no progress on opening up Oxbridge entry. St Paul's

:03:28. > :03:32.girls and Westminster are ldading the way, almost half of all students

:03:33. > :03:38.go to Oxbridge. Whilst more than 1300 schools do not have a single

:03:39. > :03:40.Oxbridge entrants. And only 50 students on free school meals

:03:41. > :03:46.weren't admitted to Oxbridgd in 2013. I acknowledge that progress

:03:47. > :03:53.was made to widening access to the most then -- disadvantaged students.

:03:54. > :03:58.More poor children are going to university but the crucial puestion,

:03:59. > :04:01.the crucial question... The Secretary of state, she is new, but

:04:02. > :04:08.she did not get to the heart of this. The crucial question hs which

:04:09. > :04:15.university? Not just the widening of participation but fair access so

:04:16. > :04:19.that you can get your extrelely good grades at A-level and Mike Weir from

:04:20. > :04:28.Sunderland, Darlington, Tottenham, to these universities. -- and you

:04:29. > :04:31.can make your way. He is making a valuable case but this habit is why

:04:32. > :04:36.we need this Bill and some of the things in it. In particular, the

:04:37. > :04:40.focus on transparency. So that we can look at social mobility in the

:04:41. > :04:45.individual institutions and work out where they are going wrong `nd where

:04:46. > :04:53.they need to do more. That hs precisely what it is for. What I

:04:54. > :04:57.will say, you are on 40 minttes I did advise people around 12 minutes.

:04:58. > :05:04.I am sure you are coming to the end. -- 14 minutes. It is to say that

:05:05. > :05:10.spans in state will of course help but we know what works. --

:05:11. > :05:15.transparency. Under the Labour Government, most of it was contained

:05:16. > :05:22.within the aim higher progr`mme Which very sadly was abolished by

:05:23. > :05:28.this Government. The question I want to ask, do we want our univdrsities

:05:29. > :05:34.to be engines of social mobhlity or do we accept that the universities

:05:35. > :05:40.will be in force the inequality of opportunity that pervade our

:05:41. > :05:45.society? -- reinforce. That is the test in which this Bill shotld be

:05:46. > :05:50.held. One welcomes some of the changes that will establish a new,

:05:51. > :05:55.improved body for what is on offer. The point is that been made so far

:05:56. > :06:00.in this debate about teaching our particularly well-made, to link

:06:01. > :06:06.teaching to the Labour markdt when frankly, universities... It is not

:06:07. > :06:12.just the Labour market that is worrying. It is funding alongside

:06:13. > :06:19.that, teaching, that is suspect I want to hear the Minister s`y more

:06:20. > :06:25.about that. I hope that are` receives more scrutiny in Committee.

:06:26. > :06:30.The question is, is this Bill right now, given the Brexit challdnge is

:06:31. > :06:34.it really going to make a change beyond transparency on fair access?

:06:35. > :06:40.Hope the Minister will come back to that. And is it right that on the

:06:41. > :06:44.teaching question alone, to put all the burdens on universities with

:06:45. > :06:47.relation to the Labour markdt, but certainly to allow them to charge

:06:48. > :06:59.more for teaching when that ought to be at the heart of what a university

:07:00. > :07:03.does anyway. I am very pleased, first of all, to see my right

:07:04. > :07:07.honourable friend back on the bench. I would like to place on thd record

:07:08. > :07:11.that I welcome the Minister that we have from this morning and `lso to

:07:12. > :07:15.say that I share her experidnce as being the first person in mx family

:07:16. > :07:20.to go to university. Both mx parents left school at 16, I came from a

:07:21. > :07:26.farming background, I can honestly say it is and was a ticket to the

:07:27. > :07:30.world. So few women back in the day went to university. Things have

:07:31. > :07:36.definitely improved, I can `ssure the right honourable member from the

:07:37. > :07:40.opposite benches. I rise to support this higher education and rdsearch

:07:41. > :07:44.Bill. With that as my background, but also, having two childrdn who

:07:45. > :07:49.have already gone through university and one son who is making hhs

:07:50. > :07:56.decision to go at all, in f`irness. I realise how important it hs, to

:07:57. > :08:01.go, and also what subject you choose, and what job you might get

:08:02. > :08:08.at the end of it. The subjects are important and I have discussed this

:08:09. > :08:17.with many students in my local area. The college locally is very good, in

:08:18. > :08:20.the top ten. To talk to young people about what is preventing thdm going

:08:21. > :08:26.further, why they do not want to order with the rather stay `t home.

:08:27. > :08:31.All of these things. I am hopeful these things will be addressed in

:08:32. > :08:35.this Bill. Without a doubt, higher education is good for the

:08:36. > :08:40.individual. Graduates on avdrage earn an excess of ?100,000 lore over

:08:41. > :08:47.a lifetime and having gone to university. Having got this graduate

:08:48. > :08:51.premium. It is not just good for the individual, it is good for the