20/07/2016

:00:09. > :00:17.Alter. Urgent question, Mr Andy Burnham. I would like to ask the

:00:18. > :00:23.Home Secretary if she would clarify questions last week on calls for

:00:24. > :00:33.public enquiry into policing at the Orgreave coking plant in 1984. Last

:00:34. > :00:36.week, my honourable friend, the Advocate General for Scotland and

:00:37. > :00:41.said a question on whether the government had decided whether there

:00:42. > :00:47.will be an enquiry into police actions during the Orgreave minor's

:00:48. > :00:50.clash in 1984. He explained the previous Home Secretary had been

:00:51. > :00:55.considering the Orgreave truth and justice campaign submission and the

:00:56. > :01:04.Independent Police Complaints Commission is working with the CPS

:01:05. > :01:10.to see whether material from the Orgreave incident is relevant to the

:01:11. > :01:13.Hillsborough enquiry and whether criminal proceedings will be brought

:01:14. > :01:18.as a result. The government takes all allegations of police misconduct

:01:19. > :01:23.seriously and then Home Secretary considered the analysis in detail.

:01:24. > :01:28.Can tell him I have written to the campaign secretary, Barbara Jackson,

:01:29. > :01:33.to say I will be happy to meet her and the campaign after the summer

:01:34. > :01:36.recess. I would also be happy to meet the right honourable gentleman

:01:37. > :01:40.to discuss this case, because I know it is something he feels strongly

:01:41. > :01:47.about. It is one of the most important issues and I will consider

:01:48. > :01:51.the fact very carefully over the summer. I hope to come to a decision

:01:52. > :01:59.as quickly as possible following that. I promised the Hillsborough

:02:00. > :02:02.families the truth about the 20 year cover-up. They won't have it until

:02:03. > :02:08.we also know what happened after Orgreave. A year ago, the IPCC found

:02:09. > :02:11.senior others as gave all statements, exaggerating violence

:02:12. > :02:16.from minors to distract from their own use of force, some would say

:02:17. > :02:20.brutality. So the force that would wrongly blamed Liverpool supporters,

:02:21. > :02:25.tried to do the same against the miners, five years before. The then

:02:26. > :02:29.Home Secretary promised a public enquiry because the miners strike

:02:30. > :02:33.caused deep scars, when in the words of a former Chief Constable, the

:02:34. > :02:39.police were used as an army of occupation. The campaign has

:02:40. > :02:41.submitted an application and it was an unexpected announcement last week

:02:42. > :02:48.it would now be substantially delayed. The Advocate general's

:02:49. > :02:51.words with ease, the IPCC told Home Office officials if it announced any

:02:52. > :02:56.action to set up an enquiry relating to Orgreave, it would have an impact

:02:57. > :03:02.on the Hillsborough investigation. But the deputy chair of the IPCC

:03:03. > :03:06.says I would like to clarify the IPCC has not taken any position on

:03:07. > :03:11.whether there should be a public enquiry. It is a decision entirely

:03:12. > :03:15.for the Home Secretary. I welcome her offer to meet, but it won't

:03:16. > :03:19.build the right climate if she does not correct the misleading

:03:20. > :03:21.impression given to Parliament that the IPCC had advised against the

:03:22. > :03:28.establishment enquiry at this time. Does she accept there is no reason

:03:29. > :03:32.enquiry should be delayed and in similar situations it is commonplace

:03:33. > :03:36.for protections to be put in place to manage any risks. Can she see why

:03:37. > :03:41.the government's actions look like a Home Office manoeuvre to shunt a

:03:42. > :03:46.controversial issue into the long grass. And this was announced as the

:03:47. > :03:50.former Home Secretary stood on the steps of Downing Street, Singh to

:03:51. > :03:57.fight injustice. May be people remember another former Prime

:03:58. > :04:02.Minister quoting Francis of Assisi on the steps of Downing Street. Will

:04:03. > :04:06.the Home Secretary do the right thing and restore damaged mistrust

:04:07. > :04:12.in people who have waited 30 years for the truth and order a public

:04:13. > :04:17.enquiry into Orgreave? The right honourable gentleman will no this

:04:18. > :04:23.government has not been slow in looking at historical cases. There

:04:24. > :04:28.have been Labour governments and Conservative governments since 1984,

:04:29. > :04:31.but it is this government taking the campaign very seriously. I will not

:04:32. > :04:36.resile from that, I have told the campaign I will look at the evidence

:04:37. > :04:40.I have. They submitted it at the end of last year. It is a substantial

:04:41. > :04:45.file. It is because I take it so seriously that I am not going to

:04:46. > :04:50.rush. It would be a mistake to do it today. What I'm going to do is look

:04:51. > :04:54.at it over the summer and meet with the campaign group in September and

:04:55. > :04:57.reach a decision after that. But he should not allow anybody to think

:04:58. > :05:03.this means I do not take it seriously. We take it very seriously

:05:04. > :05:08.on this side of the House and will reach a proper conclusion when I

:05:09. > :05:15.have looked at all of the evidence. Serve Eric Pickles. The future of

:05:16. > :05:19.South Yorkshire Police is clearly linked to this. These allegations

:05:20. > :05:23.are historic, but if you bring them together with more contemporary

:05:24. > :05:30.problems, it seems to be forced that is dysfunctional. She must look at

:05:31. > :05:33.the future function of South Yorkshire Police, its management are

:05:34. > :05:41.not shy away from any fundamental reorganisation. The honourable

:05:42. > :05:45.gentleman will not be surprised, my right honourable friend will not be

:05:46. > :05:50.surprised to hear we are doing exactly that. He draws an important

:05:51. > :05:54.point to our attention and it is that issued the IPCC is looking at.

:05:55. > :05:59.But I can reassure this House, my right honourable friend and the

:06:00. > :06:03.right honourable gentleman, the work of the IPCC will not delay the work

:06:04. > :06:11.I will be doing looking at this particular case. The 1980s was quite

:06:12. > :06:18.a shocking time in politics. Difficult time to be going up, I

:06:19. > :06:23.know other members of that will disagree, growing up under Mrs

:06:24. > :06:27.Thatcher. It was a distressing period for many others. What

:06:28. > :06:33.happened in Orgreave was one of the most shocking examples of all.

:06:34. > :06:38.Liberty said there was a riot that day, but it was a police riot.

:06:39. > :06:44.Michael Mansfield QC said it was the worst example of a mass frame up in

:06:45. > :06:49.this country, this century. And Alan Billings of South Yorkshire Police

:06:50. > :06:52.said the police were dangerously close that day to being used as an

:06:53. > :07:15.instrument of the. They colour the UK Government to go

:07:16. > :07:22.farther and look at Orgreave. Order. I am grateful, but I am afraid she

:07:23. > :07:28.has exceeded her time. Order. We are grateful. We really must establish

:07:29. > :07:35.principal that a time limit is a time limit on a you Tube. I do not

:07:36. > :07:44.want to single her out, but it was too long. Forgive me. -- UQ. I

:07:45. > :07:48.understand the point, it is about the crossover of police behaviour on

:07:49. > :07:51.the Hillsborough and Orgreave incidents. She raises an important

:07:52. > :07:56.point and is right that there are serious allegations to be addressed

:07:57. > :08:01.and that is what the IPCC will be looking at. We will also be making

:08:02. > :08:09.sure that the incident particularly Orgreave on the area she has raised

:08:10. > :08:14.but carefully examined. Thank you. Can we also be assured by my

:08:15. > :08:17.honourable friend that any investigation that takes place will

:08:18. > :08:22.hear evidence from police officers that were allegedly injured by

:08:23. > :08:31.missiles whilst doing their duty in allowing people to lawfully go to

:08:32. > :08:34.work. He is right. This cannot be a one-sided enquiry for investigation.

:08:35. > :08:39.I will make sure that we will look at both sides of this. But I must

:08:40. > :08:42.tell him that there are some serious allegations to be considered. One of

:08:43. > :08:49.the things that occurred in the Hillsborough enquiry was the ability

:08:50. > :08:56.of my honourable friend and other people to expose the fight that the

:08:57. > :09:01.police were right and similar things about similar incidents. The South

:09:02. > :09:06.Yorkshire Police, as has already been explained, they did exactly the

:09:07. > :09:12.same Orgreave. I went there. And I saw for myself. And it was one-way

:09:13. > :09:18.traffic by the police. And then the same statements over and over again.

:09:19. > :09:22.Written for each of these different minors. So I hope she's not going to

:09:23. > :09:36.be hanging about very long with this. There was a promise made and

:09:37. > :09:42.the last Home Secretary made the link between the two. Let's have

:09:43. > :09:50.some justice for Orgreave. -- the miners. He is right to ask for truth

:09:51. > :09:54.and justice. That is why a contact the -- I contacted the campaign

:09:55. > :10:01.leader to ensure we have a meeting in September. I am not hanging

:10:02. > :10:07.around on this. This is one of the most important items in my in tray.

:10:08. > :10:11.And I will look at the thing he raised today. I welcome her to her

:10:12. > :10:19.new position and I welcome the urgent question from the gentleman.

:10:20. > :10:25.I back up what he has just said and I have said before at the end of the

:10:26. > :10:29.Hillsborough verdict that the South Yorkshire Police does a disservice

:10:30. > :10:34.to the hard-working officers who put themselves on the front line. I

:10:35. > :10:39.appreciate that my right honourable friend is taking time over the

:10:40. > :10:50.summer to consider it. Can I also ask her to consider reorganising the

:10:51. > :10:53.police and remove the name South Yorkshire Police? I will tell my

:10:54. > :10:58.friend that has been new leadership that will address issues within

:10:59. > :11:02.South Yorkshire and the incoming Chief Constable will have in place a

:11:03. > :11:07.long-term package of support, comprising a number of subject

:11:08. > :11:11.experts. They are aware of the damage that has been done and that

:11:12. > :11:15.may be one of the issues they consider. What I think is most

:11:16. > :11:23.important is to have clear leadership to deal with the legacy

:11:24. > :11:26.of difficulties. I welcome the Home Secretary to her new position and I

:11:27. > :11:30.wish her well. It is not unreasonable for her to want to take

:11:31. > :11:35.time in the second stanza is to consider this. But this is not going

:11:36. > :11:38.to go away. While this might relate specifically to South Yorkshire, it

:11:39. > :11:42.has implications for the credibility of policing right across the

:11:43. > :11:48.country. Does she accept that this is something which is wholly

:11:49. > :11:53.exceptional and will need a wholly exceptional resolution? He makes an

:11:54. > :11:59.important point. The point I made earlier about historical cases

:12:00. > :12:02.doesn't make it feel like there is a series of issues and allegations

:12:03. > :12:07.that need dealing with. And I hope he will take some comfort from the

:12:08. > :12:11.fact that this government and the former Home Secretary have a

:12:12. > :12:16.reputation for not shying away and for addressing these issues. And I

:12:17. > :12:22.will make sure that we will continue to have that reputation. My father

:12:23. > :12:27.was a messed Midlands policeman in the 1980s and spent some days

:12:28. > :12:34.policing at Orgreave. -- West Midlands policeman. Where there is

:12:35. > :12:38.police malpractice, it must be dealt with effectively. Does the Home

:12:39. > :12:46.Secretary recognise the concerns of many serving and retired police

:12:47. > :12:49.officers at what they perceive as a political campaign with a

:12:50. > :12:54.predetermined outcome? He raises an important point and the answer to

:12:55. > :12:58.that is why I will take my time to come to what I feel will be a fair

:12:59. > :13:02.answer. I will look at all the information. Nothing has been

:13:03. > :13:10.prejudged. There are serious allegations that have been made, but

:13:11. > :13:16.I will look at both sides. There is a strong thread between Orgreave and

:13:17. > :13:21.Hillsborough. There is a parallel with Shrewsbury as well. The only

:13:22. > :13:27.way we can disprove political motivation is to have a full

:13:28. > :13:33.independent enquiry. Get on with it and just do it. I thank the

:13:34. > :13:37.honourable gentleman for his view, but I would repeat that it would be

:13:38. > :13:42.the wrong thing to do for me too, just get on with it. I want to look

:13:43. > :13:49.at the evidence. This has to be driven by evidence. The campaign has

:13:50. > :13:53.spent six months pulling together a substantial package and body of

:13:54. > :14:00.evidence. I will not ignore the work that they have done. I would take a

:14:01. > :14:03.careful look at all of it. I'm really concerned at the language

:14:04. > :14:09.being used already by the Right Honourable Lady with regards to the

:14:10. > :14:16.Orgreave incident. In the dispatch box, she just classified the

:14:17. > :14:29.incident as "A minor's clash." But she likes to clarify those words? --

:14:30. > :14:32.the miners clash. What I think is important is to make sure that we

:14:33. > :14:36.look at all the evidence. What I have had a look at all the evidence,

:14:37. > :14:40.I will have the opportunity to come back and describe it as what it

:14:41. > :14:45.really was when we reached a conclusion. Orgreave is in my

:14:46. > :14:50.constituency and I still have people come to my surgery in tears reliving

:14:51. > :14:55.the horror when they went that their families to peacefully picket. The

:14:56. > :15:01.violent abuse they suffered, the via media campaign afterwards, please

:15:02. > :15:06.will be Home Secretary give them justice and peace by having a public

:15:07. > :15:13.enquiry. The honourable lady makes a passionate case and she always does

:15:14. > :15:18.when she campaigns. And this is why I spoke to the campaign group, my

:15:19. > :15:22.office did this morning. I will be seeing them in September. I do

:15:23. > :15:26.appreciate the level of distress and hurt and historic anger that is part

:15:27. > :15:34.of this case, which is why will take it very seriously. I bought the

:15:35. > :15:40.campaign with my honourable friend down to see the Home Secretary over

:15:41. > :15:43.one year ago. It was therefore unexpected and unwelcome to hear

:15:44. > :15:51.that after all this, she was still waiting for the investigation is to

:15:52. > :15:57.be concluded. The Shadow Home Secretary raised an important

:15:58. > :16:03.question. Will they correct the record now. And when will she make a

:16:04. > :16:10.decision? I do recognise this has been a long time in coming. The

:16:11. > :16:13.incident was in 1984. The then Home Secretary met with the campaign

:16:14. > :16:18.group in July last year. Six months later, they came with the evidence.

:16:19. > :16:23.So we have had it since the end of last year. I have decided I will

:16:24. > :16:31.look at this. It is substantial. I will look at it over the summer and

:16:32. > :16:35.I will look at it -- will meet with the campaign group in September. I

:16:36. > :16:43.will come to a decision as soon as I can after that. Does the Home

:16:44. > :16:46.Secretary recognise that Orgreave is a scandalous episode that we will

:16:47. > :16:51.not get to the bottom off, unless we get to the top of it? It is in that

:16:52. > :16:59.light that many people are suspicious of any possible denial of

:17:00. > :17:07.an enquiry. I would say that I know about the concerns he refers to,

:17:08. > :17:12.when he refers to the top of it. That is what the IPCC focuses on.

:17:13. > :17:17.Looking at the connection with Orgreave and Hillsborough. So I will

:17:18. > :17:22.not shy away from looking carefully at wherever there are links or where

:17:23. > :17:30.ever there has been wrongdoing. When Orgreave happened, -- while it

:17:31. > :17:42.happened a while ago, there are still problems with the police. May

:17:43. > :17:49.I thank for setting up a review. Will she now commit to support the

:17:50. > :17:57.IPCC in implementing the issues that the pier review identified. And will

:17:58. > :18:03.she have a look at the issues that the pier review has raised. I thank

:18:04. > :18:09.him for raising that important question. He is right. We hope there

:18:10. > :18:13.will be progress and we will be following it under Dai Jones very

:18:14. > :18:17.carefully. My colleague the police minister has already said he will be

:18:18. > :18:20.going to see them over the summer. So we take very seriously the

:18:21. > :18:24.improvements they have said they will make. The Home Secretary has

:18:25. > :18:33.said she is going to make a decision in the autumn. As chair of the

:18:34. > :18:39.all-party group on the Hillsborough disaster and on behalf of my

:18:40. > :18:44.colleagues, we spent many hours talking with her predecessor and the

:18:45. > :18:50.IPCC to understand the consequences. Can I ask her if she will commit to

:18:51. > :18:54.speak to the Prime Minister and learned those lessons and commit to

:18:55. > :19:00.meeting extensively with members of this house to discuss the event at

:19:01. > :19:07.Orgreave? I can give the honourable later that commitment. I have

:19:08. > :19:11.already said I will meet with the gentleman who raised this question.

:19:12. > :19:15.And also any other colleagues, I will meet with them to make sure I

:19:16. > :19:23.am informed and up-to-date by this whole issue and the campaign that

:19:24. > :19:30.has happened so far. I think it is important that not all police

:19:31. > :19:38.officers are tarred with the same brush at Orgreave. I have spoken

:19:39. > :19:44.with those who did not cooperate. How does she suggests I feel that

:19:45. > :19:49.evidence into her? I am grateful for him raising that. It is an issue

:19:50. > :19:53.being raised by my friend here in reference to his father. We must

:19:54. > :19:58.make sure that not everybody is tarred. I will be delighted to

:19:59. > :20:03.receive from him any information that would help to reach a decision

:20:04. > :20:15.and be part of the enquiry that I'm looking at in September. Border.

:20:16. > :20:26.Presentation of Bill. -- order. Where is he? He's not here. Better

:20:27. > :20:36.late than never. UK International trade and investment agreement

:20:37. > :20:44.ratification Bill. What day? Friday the 28th of October 2000 and 16.

:20:45. > :20:56.Thank you. Presentation of Bill. -- October 2000 and 16. -- October 20

:20:57. > :21:03.16. Friday the 2nd of November 2000 and 16. Thank you. Order. We come

:21:04. > :21:08.now to the ten minute rule motion. Caroline Lucas.

:21:09. > :21:15.I beg to move leave be given to bring in a Bill to require the

:21:16. > :21:23.Secretary of State to introduce proportional representation. Reduce

:21:24. > :21:29.the voting age to 16 in all voting in the UK and referenda. I am

:21:30. > :21:32.introducing this bill today because our electoral system is broken and

:21:33. > :21:37.we need to address some of the reasons why. As a country, we pride

:21:38. > :21:41.ourselves on strong commitment to democracy, but the majority of votes

:21:42. > :21:47.up and down the land simply do not count. Power is held by a small

:21:48. > :21:51.minority and the voting system upholds the status quo. We may be on

:21:52. > :21:56.the path to leaving the EU, but those who were promised they would

:21:57. > :22:00.be given back control simply will not have it without having

:22:01. > :22:05.meaningful electoral reform. The currents on representative voting

:22:06. > :22:10.system is doing long-term damage. It manifests itself in phenomena like

:22:11. > :22:13.the widespread lack of trust and faith in public servants and the

:22:14. > :22:22.growth of what some have called with already and overtones post-truth

:22:23. > :22:24.politics. Too many constituents are disillusioned, disaffected and

:22:25. > :22:28.disengaged and continuing to deny them a voice in decisions that

:22:29. > :22:32.affect us all, perpetuate the problems. That is exactly what

:22:33. > :22:37.happens under our first past the post voting system. A system where

:22:38. > :22:41.votes are not all equal because unless you live in one of the small

:22:42. > :22:47.number, heavily targeted marginal seats, your vote doesn't count. The

:22:48. > :22:51.electoral reform Society has described the 2015 general election

:22:52. > :22:56.as, the most disproportionate in electoral history. With this

:22:57. > :23:00.government elected on just 24% of the eligible voter. First past the

:23:01. > :23:07.post has a long record of failing to deliver governments but command

:23:08. > :23:13.genuine majority support. In 1997, Labour gained 43.2% of the total

:23:14. > :23:19.votes, but 163% of seats at Westminster. The combined number of

:23:20. > :23:23.votes for the Tories and Lib Dems represented 47.5% of the total

:23:24. > :23:28.votes, 4% more than Labour. But between them they got 32% of the

:23:29. > :23:32.seats available at Westminster. Not since 1931 has a Prime Minister won

:23:33. > :23:40.a majority of the vote to match his or her majority in the Commons.

:23:41. > :23:46.First past the post creates seats so safe, some incumbents are so relaxed

:23:47. > :23:49.as to be almost horizontal. This complacency is matched by

:23:50. > :23:52.disillusionment amongst voters. How does it engage people in the

:23:53. > :23:56.political process if large numbers are driven to vote tactically,

:23:57. > :23:59.rather than voting for what they want, since so many campaign

:24:00. > :24:07.leaflets are always reminding us, this party cannot win in this area.

:24:08. > :24:11.It is an interesting fact, MPs in save seeds were twice as likely than

:24:12. > :24:16.those with the smallest majorities, to be found abusing the expenses

:24:17. > :24:21.system. In the 1950s, people either voted Labour or Conservative. But

:24:22. > :24:29.the proportion of people voting for the two main parties have fallen

:24:30. > :24:37.from 97% down to 67%. Members of the big three, and 2015 they got 24.9%,

:24:38. > :24:42.nearly a quarter, the biggest share since 1945. People voted differently

:24:43. > :24:46.now. We urgently need a voting system that is updated to reflect

:24:47. > :24:53.that. My bill would introduce proportional voting system. There

:24:54. > :24:57.are two main systems, one is the additional member system because it

:24:58. > :25:01.retains the constituency link that most MPs value enormously. But I

:25:02. > :25:05.have deliberately not specified which system because it is the

:25:06. > :25:09.principle I am seeking to establish at this stage. All voting systems

:25:10. > :25:16.have advantages and drawbacks, but none so mind-bending the public

:25:17. > :25:18.cannot cope with their complexities, despite the many detractors of PR

:25:19. > :25:27.like to claim. They forget the voters manage a PR system for the

:25:28. > :25:31.London assembly and the transferable vote for European elections. It

:25:32. > :25:35.demonstrates the lack of respect for voters, that the disproportionate

:25:36. > :25:40.first past the post system perpetuates. Voters are not stupid.

:25:41. > :25:45.They know when they are being patronised. It is deeply insulting

:25:46. > :25:49.to deny them a fair vote on the basis they would not know how to use

:25:50. > :25:58.it. The voters rejected the alternative vote system in 2011. AV

:25:59. > :26:02.is not PR. Under PR there is a simple relationship of cause and

:26:03. > :26:06.effect for the voter. If you vote for a candidate, you increase his or

:26:07. > :26:11.her chances of getting elected. If you vote for party you increase the

:26:12. > :26:13.entitlement seats. Then you achieve more representation for your views.

:26:14. > :26:24.First past the post does not deliver seeds look like votes that have been

:26:25. > :26:28.cast, but PR does. Winner takes all system, but the Conservatives only

:26:29. > :26:32.have 24% of the electorate is not sustainable. The Greens quadrupled

:26:33. > :26:36.their share of the vote nationally to 1.1 million votes in 2015 and got

:26:37. > :26:44.one seat. Ukip told 3.8 million seats. They just got one seat. The

:26:45. > :26:51.SNP, who I am glad to call my friends, polled 1.4 million and they

:26:52. > :26:54.won 56 seats, even they would agree is disproportionate. Which is why

:26:55. > :26:59.they are here in such force and I welcome that. Changing the voting

:27:00. > :27:03.system will not necessarily have changed the overall outcome, but

:27:04. > :27:08.that is not the central point. The main reason for introducing PR is

:27:09. > :27:12.making every vote count and I believe encouraging more people to

:27:13. > :27:16.come out to vote because they know their vote matters. It would see an

:27:17. > :27:20.increase voter turnout. Some people say people aren't interested in

:27:21. > :27:25.politics, but everyone is interested in the state of their local schools

:27:26. > :27:28.and whether they have a local hospital. Whatever your take on the

:27:29. > :27:32.EU referendum, it demonstrates if you give people a say they can be

:27:33. > :27:38.very political. Citizens who feel they can be genuine agents for

:27:39. > :27:42.change. I also anticipate under PR would return a parliament which

:27:43. > :27:47.better reflects modern Britain. Only 29% of MPs are women, it is still

:27:48. > :27:53.not right when women make up over half of the adult population. Other

:27:54. > :28:00.minorities are still underrepresented. Under PR, MPs

:28:01. > :28:02.cannot just rely on the vote of their tribe. They are forced to

:28:03. > :28:08.reach out across the party divide to the wider electorate. Two more women

:28:09. > :28:13.and so on. Hopefully that means traditionally excluded groups

:28:14. > :28:16.standing for election. Proportional representation is about fairness and

:28:17. > :28:20.that is why my bill puts PR hand-in-hand with weaving 16 and

:28:21. > :28:27.17-year-olds the vote. 16-year-olds are considered old enough to enter

:28:28. > :28:31.into marriage, civil partnerships, pay tax and National Insurance,

:28:32. > :28:35.joined the Armed Forces, a political party or trade union. Surely they

:28:36. > :28:41.should help elect the MPs that make decisions over these things. 64% of

:28:42. > :28:45.registered voters went to the polls in the EU referendum, compared to an

:28:46. > :28:50.estimated 52% in the last general election. Increased awareness of

:28:51. > :28:54.voter registration, combined with a vote that counts, mean young people

:28:55. > :28:58.come out in large numbers to voice their opinions. The UK was one of

:28:59. > :29:03.the first countries in the world to lower the voting age from 21 to 18,

:29:04. > :29:07.but is trailing behind Brazil, Argentina and Austria. Unless you

:29:08. > :29:11.live in Scotland, which has blazed the trail with a more inclusive

:29:12. > :29:16.system by giving 16 and 17-year-olds the vote in the independence

:29:17. > :29:21.referendum. Those young people need a say on all decisions that affect

:29:22. > :29:26.their future. We need a quality between 16 and 17-year-olds in

:29:27. > :29:29.Scotland and the rest of the UK. Mr Speaker, if democracy is about

:29:30. > :29:32.fairly representing the views of the people, then right now our current

:29:33. > :29:37.democratic system is failing. Integer, with the government's plans

:29:38. > :29:43.boundary changes, it could get worse. PR would bring fairness as

:29:44. > :29:46.well as help tackle some of the reasons why people don't vote, the

:29:47. > :29:51.idea their vote doesn't make a difference. People opted to take

:29:52. > :29:56.back control of our democracy, but unless we reform the electoral

:29:57. > :30:00.system they still have virtually no control over who runs the country or

:30:01. > :30:04.who represents them in Parliament. Much has been said about the

:30:05. > :30:08.importance of reversing the alienation and the neglect felt in

:30:09. > :30:13.parts of our country which this EU referendum result laid bare. I

:30:14. > :30:16.believe as part of ringing the country back together, electoral

:30:17. > :30:22.reform and votes at 16 have a key role to play. A way to demonstrate

:30:23. > :30:26.to people that every vote they cast is important and yes, their voice

:30:27. > :30:33.does matter and indeed it has been heard. Question is the honourable

:30:34. > :30:39.member have leave to bring in the bill, Mr John Penrose. This bill

:30:40. > :30:42.would do two things. Reducing the voting age has been repeatedly

:30:43. > :30:47.discussed and rejected a sizeable margins in the Commons in the last

:30:48. > :30:51.12 months. In multiple stages are the local government Bill and the EU

:30:52. > :30:58.) and Bill. I will go over that same arguments here. The bill would also

:30:59. > :31:04.change the voting system. While I acknowledge and respect the

:31:05. > :31:09.honourable lady's energy over this cause, I feel it may harm democracy,

:31:10. > :31:13.rather than help it, which is is the opposite of what wants to achieve.

:31:14. > :31:19.We held a referendum on whether to change our voting system in 2011.

:31:20. > :31:24.Collectively, we voted against change. We decided to keep our tried

:31:25. > :31:30.and trusted first asked the post system by hefty margin of more than

:31:31. > :31:34.2-1. The proposed bill that claims to be about improving our democracy

:31:35. > :31:39.starts with the proposal to ignore a clear democratic decision. The

:31:40. > :31:42.people have spoken, and by a majority of more than six million

:31:43. > :31:48.and have decided they want none of it. Some would argue that the 2011

:31:49. > :31:53.referendum result shouldn't count. It asked the wrong question about

:31:54. > :31:58.the alternative vote system, which is not technically in proportion

:31:59. > :32:04.system at all. If only they could be allowed to rerun the poll, slightly

:32:05. > :32:08.different question somehow, a completely different result could be

:32:09. > :32:17.achieved. Let's ignore for the moment, Mr Speaker, the concept of

:32:18. > :32:22.giving way... In exchanges on ten minute rule motions. He should be

:32:23. > :32:28.aware. Mr John Penrose. I am happy to pick this up with the honourable

:32:29. > :32:32.gentleman if this helps. Let's ignore the likelihood of a 6 million

:32:33. > :32:37.vote majority being overturned by a small change in the question.

:32:38. > :32:40.Consider for a second, dozens of different forms of proportional and

:32:41. > :32:46.alternative voting system, whether it is open lists, supplementary

:32:47. > :32:51.votes or transferable votes, every different version has its own

:32:52. > :32:55.passionate and committed band of dedicated enthusiasts. Some of them

:32:56. > :33:00.are reputable organisations. Others, lonely obsessives blogging furiously

:33:01. > :33:06.in the privacy of their parents' spare bedrooms. But whichever, it is

:33:07. > :33:09.not possible we should ignore the AV referendum result just because it

:33:10. > :33:16.did not propose precisely their preferred flavour of new voting

:33:17. > :33:20.system. The fundamentally misses the point. Not only did voters reject

:33:21. > :33:25.changing our tried and trusted first past the post system, but they will

:33:26. > :33:29.take a dim view at the prospect of any further referendums in future as

:33:30. > :33:35.dozens of other organisations due to argue the last poll didn't oppose

:33:36. > :33:39.their favourite voting system and demand a rerun with a different

:33:40. > :33:42.question. Even worse, this hill comes at a time when a large

:33:43. > :33:46.proportion of the population is more concerned about the more recent EU

:33:47. > :33:52.referendum, where there was a narrow, although still decisive,

:33:53. > :33:55.majority vote. I am not alone in getting hundreds of e-mails from

:33:56. > :34:00.people who don't like the results of the EU vote and loudly demanding a

:34:01. > :34:04.rerun. A vote in parliament, lawsuit, anything to change the

:34:05. > :34:10.results. I telling people they can ignore the results of the even more

:34:11. > :34:15.decisive AV referendum in 2011, this bill would encourage people to think

:34:16. > :34:20.they can ignore the results of the EU referendum, telling people do

:34:21. > :34:24.they stick their fingers in their ears and sing loudly enough, drags

:34:25. > :34:33.it might not actually mean Brexiter at all. Our democracy is already

:34:34. > :34:36.fragile with trust in politics, politicians and election turnout

:34:37. > :34:40.already low. I cannot think of anything more calculated to stoke

:34:41. > :34:44.the fires of anti-political anger, than acting as if the will of the

:34:45. > :34:48.people, clearly expressed in just one, but two separate referendums on

:34:49. > :34:54.different issues, might not be drastically binding or sovereign at

:34:55. > :35:00.all. So please, enough already. This bill ignores the expressed will of

:35:01. > :35:04.Parliament which has rejected lowering the voting age many times

:35:05. > :35:09.and it ignores a thumping referendum verdict against changing the voting

:35:10. > :35:16.system in 2011 as well. We are about to abolish a layer of proportionally

:35:17. > :35:21.representative is of MEPs will EDU. Now is not the time to replace them

:35:22. > :35:25.with something else. The people have spoken and although I understand and

:35:26. > :35:29.respect, the answer is not to her liking, I urged her pleas, respect

:35:30. > :35:37.its democratic power and leave the issue alone for a long, long time.

:35:38. > :35:42.Order. The question is the honourable member have leave to

:35:43. > :35:48.bring in the bill. As many as are of the opinion say "aye". To the

:35:49. > :37:31.contrary, "no". Division. Clear the lobby.

:37:32. > :37:43.The question is that the honourable member have leave to bring in the

:37:44. > :37:47.bill. The tellers for the ayes. Tellers for the know is that Craig

:37:48. > :46:57.-- noes. Border. Order. -- order. The ayes to

:46:58. > :47:11.the right, 74. The noes to the left, 81. The ayes to the right, 74. The

:47:12. > :47:20.noes to the left, 81. So the noes have it. The noes have it. Unlock.

:47:21. > :47:26.Order. We now come to the motion in the name of the Leader of the

:47:27. > :47:31.Opposition on reductions in housing benefit for people in supported

:47:32. > :47:40.housing. To move the motion, I call Mr Graham Morris. Thank you, Mr

:47:41. > :47:47.Speaker. Before I move the motion in my name and in the names of my

:47:48. > :47:52.friends, could I take the opportunity to welcome the member

:47:53. > :48:01.for Ashford to his post and the members of his team? Mr Speaker, six

:48:02. > :48:05.months ago, my right honourable friend led an Opposition Day debate

:48:06. > :48:09.on the government's decision to cap housing benefit support for

:48:10. > :48:14.vulnerable people in specialist housing. The decision will affect

:48:15. > :48:18.elderly citizens, Armed Forces veterans, those with disabilities,

:48:19. > :48:22.people with learning difficulties, and people with mental health

:48:23. > :48:26.problems. It will hit homeless people and it will jeopardise the

:48:27. > :48:31.safety of people fleeing domestic violence. Following pressure from

:48:32. > :48:35.the benches on this side of the house, and I might say concerns also

:48:36. > :48:39.raised by members on the government's side, and there was a

:48:40. > :48:45.very interesting debate that was led by the honourable member for Waveney

:48:46. > :48:49.last week. There are concerns that are shared by members of the

:48:50. > :48:54.government party and there has been quite a campaign mounted across the

:48:55. > :48:58.country by community groups and housing providers. I was pleased

:48:59. > :49:04.that the Minister agreed to delay the implementation of the cap. But I

:49:05. > :49:08.must press ministers now to go one step further. They must reverse

:49:09. > :49:12.their decision to slash housing benefit for a huge range of

:49:13. > :49:17.vulnerable people living in supported housing. And I would ask

:49:18. > :49:22.this question, of ministers and members of the government party,

:49:23. > :49:26.what kind of country would we be in if we abandon the most vulnerable in

:49:27. > :49:31.our society? What kind of message will it send, not just to the

:49:32. > :49:36.country and to vulnerable people, but to observers around the world

:49:37. > :49:41.about the priorities of this government? What credibility would

:49:42. > :49:45.be left for the outgoing Prime Minister with his repeated assertion

:49:46. > :49:50.that the government would not balance the books on the backs of

:49:51. > :49:54.the poorest? Unless they reversed this destructive decision, that will

:49:55. > :50:00.be precisely what they are doing. I am willing to give way to the right

:50:01. > :50:03.honourable gentleman, if he is prepared to say he is going to

:50:04. > :50:12.reverse the decision and make an announcement that we are all hoping

:50:13. > :50:17.for. Mike... -- my... It would be a damning legacy for the former Prime

:50:18. > :50:23.Minister and a broken promise for those who could least afford it. But

:50:24. > :50:30.the decision isn't just detrimental to the most vulnerable members of

:50:31. > :50:34.society. If we are looking at it in financial terms, it makes no sense

:50:35. > :50:40.either. I will give way. I thank him for giving way. Would he not agree

:50:41. > :50:45.with me that it has become more difficult for people to get housing

:50:46. > :50:52.benefit, in some instances, it might not be adequate?

:50:53. > :51:00.I am grateful to my honourable friend. Indeed, that is the case.

:51:01. > :51:03.The groups I originally listed, these are some of the most

:51:04. > :51:08.vulnerable groups in society, they are people that should be protected

:51:09. > :51:14.and are people that require supported housing. If the government

:51:15. > :51:17.continues on its course, some of the most disadvantaged and vulnerable

:51:18. > :51:23.people will be further disadvantaged and the actual cost to the taxpayer,

:51:24. > :51:25.to the Exchequer will be more. It doesn't make financial sense and

:51:26. > :51:32.leaves the providers of supported housing in an invidious position. I

:51:33. > :51:37.know housing providers, because I have met many of them, breathed a

:51:38. > :51:41.collective sigh of relief when a decision to support was delayed

:51:42. > :51:45.pending a review, but they are left in a precarious addition with this

:51:46. > :51:50.hanging over the services they provide. As my right honourable

:51:51. > :51:57.friend, the member for Wentworth pointed out in a debate in this

:51:58. > :52:03.House on the 27th of January, unless the government reverses this

:52:04. > :52:09.pernicious proposal, 156,000 units of existing supported and sheltered

:52:10. > :52:17.housing may have to close. I will give way. I am grateful. I have

:52:18. > :52:21.received a letter from the new Charter Housing group that operates

:52:22. > :52:26.social housing in the tame side part of my constituency. They hit the

:52:27. > :52:30.nail on the head in this letter, where they say as a result, they

:52:31. > :52:36.will not have the income to sustain the provision of supported housing.

:52:37. > :52:41.Then they will inevitably see the closure of some schemes. Many of the

:52:42. > :52:45.supported and sheltered schemes in tame side become financially

:52:46. > :52:51.unviable. Isn't that exactly what is going to happen up and down the

:52:52. > :52:56.country if these cuts continue? I am grateful to my honourable friend for

:52:57. > :53:00.making that point in a concise way. A member of the government party

:53:01. > :53:07.from his position is saying, they don't know. But it is absolutely

:53:08. > :53:10.clear and the point I am trying to make is the housing providers need

:53:11. > :53:15.certainty of their income stream before they can plan for new

:53:16. > :53:18.provision. It is a reasonable point and not beyond the understanding of

:53:19. > :53:26.ministers with a financial background. I will give way. Is in

:53:27. > :53:30.not true it is important to do this review with housing benefit is being

:53:31. > :53:33.rolled into universal credit and this scaremongering there is going

:53:34. > :53:38.to be cuts, people don't actually know what the outcome is going to

:53:39. > :53:46.be. Let's have a constructive discussion during this review and

:53:47. > :53:49.give certainty to the sector. I do thank the honourable lady for the

:53:50. > :53:54.intervention, but I must, with respect, point out the decisions of

:53:55. > :54:01.government must be based around evidence. It would be sensible

:54:02. > :54:07.before embarking upon a plan and a policy to look at that evidence

:54:08. > :54:11.objectively and scientifically. If the honourable lady wanted expert

:54:12. > :54:19.opinion, I am happy to give that" the Chief Executive of the National

:54:20. > :54:25.Housing Federation, David all, who met with the then Housing Minister

:54:26. > :54:30.on the 18th of December last year. This is an expert in the field, he

:54:31. > :54:33.said the impact of the local housing cap will be stark and make it

:54:34. > :54:38.difficult for any housing associations to develop new

:54:39. > :54:43.supported housing. He also said providers across the country will be

:54:44. > :54:47.forced to close schemes. There is plenty of evidence of that island I

:54:48. > :54:50.am sure honourable members on both sides of the House have had

:54:51. > :54:56.representations from housing associations and housing providers,

:54:57. > :55:01.and indeed... I will give way. I am grateful. He does accept he

:55:02. > :55:08.understands there is a research project looking at this evidence but

:55:09. > :55:12.the conflicts in this motion on his order Pater, says the government

:55:13. > :55:19.intends to cut housing benefit for vulnerable people. It is pure

:55:20. > :55:23.scaremongering. It is a matter of fact and it is a chicken and egg.

:55:24. > :55:30.Surely you review the evidence before you announce a decision and

:55:31. > :55:34.then put it on hold. The review, I believe, was started in 2015,

:55:35. > :55:39.perhaps the Minister can correct me. Why are we still were baiting --

:55:40. > :55:44.waiting for the results of the review. Why did the Chancellor make

:55:45. > :55:47.a statement which had huge implications for some of the most

:55:48. > :55:50.vulnerable people living in supported housing, without looking

:55:51. > :55:59.at the evidence first. I will give way this once. I do hope in his

:56:00. > :56:04.speech he will talk about the period of the 20 years prior to this review

:56:05. > :56:10.weather had me review under the many years under the Labour government,

:56:11. > :56:15.when no review happened, how housing benefit was being spent. During the

:56:16. > :56:18.last debate, they didn't know how much money was being spent, whether

:56:19. > :56:23.it was effective. Isn't the government right to conduct this

:56:24. > :56:29.review and then come forward with those proposals and he is

:56:30. > :56:39.scaremongering. I do think we have to deal with the position we now

:56:40. > :56:44.find ourselves in. Demand for supported housing has changed and

:56:45. > :56:49.increased dramatically. There is a million people relying on food

:56:50. > :56:54.banks, which certainly wasn't the case ten years ago. We have a

:56:55. > :56:56.problem now with people suffering from mental health problems and

:56:57. > :57:01.learning difficulties. We know we have got a debt to our armed

:57:02. > :57:09.services personnel, the veterans, many of whom have post-traumatic

:57:10. > :57:14.stress disorder and need supported living. There are new factors we

:57:15. > :57:20.need to take account of. But surely it is the job of the government to

:57:21. > :57:24.commission the studies. My honourable friend, my right

:57:25. > :57:40.honourable friend and in the other place, the Noble Lord Beauchamp of

:57:41. > :57:47.Newcastle, has tabled a whole series of questions I got the answer that

:57:48. > :57:55.the ministers don't know. It is an indictment of ministers who are

:57:56. > :58:03.supposed to compile evidence -based on decisions. Just looking at the

:58:04. > :58:06.advice of professionals, the National Housing Federation estimate

:58:07. > :58:12.a staggering 80% of the total existing plans new build... The

:58:13. > :58:22.honourable member is shaking his head. . Won't be built. It means in

:58:23. > :58:27.practical terms, 9270 specialist homes... I will tell you why it is

:58:28. > :58:38.because the honourable gentleman is chuntering, he is sceptical. The

:58:39. > :58:42.reason is, the reason is, the reason is they need certainty and without

:58:43. > :58:47.certainty they cannot proceed. Often raising the funding for these

:58:48. > :58:49.schemes... I can see the Minister nodding in agreement, they need

:58:50. > :58:56.certainty in going to the market to fund these schemes and where there

:58:57. > :59:05.is uncertainty, they cannot raise the funding. And they cannot, as a

:59:06. > :59:12.reasonable organisations, they cannot reasonably go on to build the

:59:13. > :59:20.supported housing units. Everyone in the House has agreed that we need

:59:21. > :59:25.them. There is another fact, this means there is a knock-on effect in

:59:26. > :59:28.the construction industry and jobs that would have been created won't

:59:29. > :59:36.now happen. It is an important sector, which should be growing it,

:59:37. > :59:38.not allowing it to contract. At a time when house-building outside of

:59:39. > :59:44.London remains in the doldrums, this will be another set back for the

:59:45. > :59:51.industry and the economy. How on earth can ministers expect supported

:59:52. > :59:58.housing providers in this sector to continue? And indeed, when ministers

:59:59. > :00:02.note spending cuts and other policy decisions have already hit people

:00:03. > :00:12.living in supported schemes, in supported housing schemes. Supported

:00:13. > :00:18.housing provides vital help for tens of people -- tens of thousands of

:00:19. > :00:23.people across this country. They play a crucial role in providing

:00:24. > :00:28.safe and secure homes with support for people to live independently and

:00:29. > :00:33.for others to get their lives back on track. As I mentioned, it

:00:34. > :00:37.includes supporting ex-service men and women to find a stable home,

:00:38. > :00:41.including those suffering from post-traumatic troubles, mental

:00:42. > :00:48.health, as well as physical disability needs. Can I remind the

:00:49. > :00:53.House that we have an Armed Forces covenant and that sets out the

:00:54. > :00:58.relationship between the nation, the government and the Armed Forces. It

:00:59. > :01:05.recognises the nation as a whole and this House in particular has a moral

:01:06. > :01:09.obligation, debt of honour to the members of the Armed Forces and

:01:10. > :01:16.their families. It establishes how they should be treated and how we

:01:17. > :01:22.should expect to treat them. But Madam Deputy Speaker, if ministers

:01:23. > :01:26.don't do a U-turn today, I am an eternal optimist, I am a Sunderland

:01:27. > :01:33.supporter... We have escaped four times! If we don't get a U-turn

:01:34. > :01:39.today, they will be breaking the covenant with our veterans and those

:01:40. > :01:43.who have given so much in service to their country. In addition to

:01:44. > :01:48.ex-service men and women, many older people rely on supported housing to

:01:49. > :01:53.maintain their independence. These are elderly citizens who have worked

:01:54. > :01:56.all their lives, paid taxes, only to find in the autumn of their lives,

:01:57. > :02:03.the government is turning their back on them. Personally, I think it is

:02:04. > :02:08.morally indefensible and a betrayal of a generation that gave us the

:02:09. > :02:11.welfare state and the National health service. Victims of domestic

:02:12. > :02:15.violence, I know it is a particular issue some of my honourable friends

:02:16. > :02:20.are going to speak about later in the debate, but this is another

:02:21. > :02:26.important group. Over a period of time, I know a number of members,

:02:27. > :02:31.not just on our side, but on the government side, have raised

:02:32. > :02:37.concerns about the closure of homes for victims of domestic violence. I

:02:38. > :02:42.understand dirty for at least such establishments have closed. I am

:02:43. > :02:45.advised by housing associations in my own region, all eight are at risk

:02:46. > :02:54.from closure, including the one in my constituency, if this... I will

:02:55. > :02:59.give way. I thank the honourable gentleman. He is talking about

:03:00. > :03:11.domestic violence refuges. Isn't it true this government committed ?40

:03:12. > :03:14.million in the Autumn Statement for services for those suffering

:03:15. > :03:19.domestic violence, tripling the funding from the past four years.

:03:20. > :03:25.Doesn't he welcomed that? I will in a moment, but can I quickly answer

:03:26. > :03:28.that and then I will quickly take a couple of interventions. I do

:03:29. > :03:36.welcome the government's commitment for those, the problem for that

:03:37. > :03:40.specific support. The problem is, the hostels, the establishments, the

:03:41. > :03:48.places of safety are disappearing. We need places of safety mostly for

:03:49. > :03:51.women, but also for some men, who have potentially suffered violence,

:03:52. > :03:58.some of whom have suffered threats of death. If, in the meantime, if

:03:59. > :04:01.these establishments close, I think it would be a terrible indictment on

:04:02. > :04:11.the government if that is allowed to happen. I will give way. I wonder if

:04:12. > :04:15.my honourable friend realises the money allocated by the government,

:04:16. > :04:18.the 40 million that is yet to be allocated and the 10 million which

:04:19. > :04:24.was the gift before the election, the bid is written to allocate that

:04:25. > :04:27.money to refuge, were put in with sustainability plans based on

:04:28. > :04:32.housing benefit at the current rate it is and the government signed off

:04:33. > :04:39.on every single one of those plans. Then dishonestly, went back on it. I

:04:40. > :04:48.am grateful for that intervention and it is very instructive. I will

:04:49. > :04:54.give way. I'm grateful, but I'm sure he will agree with the concerns

:04:55. > :04:58.expressed to me by many agencies that arrangements for abuse

:04:59. > :05:04.sufferers under the age of 35, when they are moving out of refuges, may

:05:05. > :05:11.put a big tins at risk. I completely agree. This is a very real concern

:05:12. > :05:16.that doesn't just affect the constituencies of honourable members

:05:17. > :05:21.on this side of the House, but the constituencies of honourable members

:05:22. > :05:25.on all sides of the House. I shudder to think of what the consequences

:05:26. > :05:31.could be if these facilities are allowed to close. It would be a

:05:32. > :05:36.simple matter for the Minister to come to the dispatch box and

:05:37. > :05:40.announce they will do a U-turn in relation to supported housing. I

:05:41. > :05:44.think the whole House and the country would breathe a collect a

:05:45. > :05:52.sigh of relief. Homeless people, another group are an additional

:05:53. > :05:57.defenceless and vulnerable group, who can and do benefit from

:05:58. > :06:00.supported housing. Supported housing for homeless people with complex and

:06:01. > :06:04.portable needs, such as mental health problems, the supported

:06:05. > :06:10.housing can help them make the transition from life on the streets

:06:11. > :06:15.into a settled home. It can help them with education, training, life

:06:16. > :06:21.skills and normal Sosa lies Asian. It helps homeless people in

:06:22. > :06:25.desperate circumstances to stabilise their lives and assist them into

:06:26. > :06:31.employment and a stable future. In short, it brings dignity back into

:06:32. > :06:36.homeless people's lives and enables them to fully participate into

:06:37. > :06:37.society again. It can provide huge savings for the criminal justice

:06:38. > :06:46.system. There has already been a rise in

:06:47. > :06:51.rough sleeping since the coalition came to power in 2010. I think this

:06:52. > :06:58.has been caused by a number of factors. Not least the impact of

:06:59. > :07:01.rising rents, cuts to benefit allowances, particularly affecting

:07:02. > :07:05.younger people, and reduction of services that local authorities can

:07:06. > :07:11.offer. I think unless the government has a rethink in relation to be

:07:12. > :07:16.housing benefit system we are considering today, we will see a

:07:17. > :07:21.further rise in homelessness. And the inherent cost to the Treasury

:07:22. > :07:29.and society mustn't be pushed to one side. Our ministers -- our ministers

:07:30. > :07:37.seriously suggesting that this country cannot provide vital

:07:38. > :07:40.assistance to homeless people? I've heard government ministers waxing

:07:41. > :07:42.lyrically about the importance of mental health provision and I

:07:43. > :07:48.absolutely agree with them. I think it should be a priority and they

:07:49. > :07:51.have said it must be given a higher priority. That people are

:07:52. > :07:57.significant mental health needs are often have to utilise supported

:07:58. > :08:01.housing. A point that was made by the member for Waverley in the

:08:02. > :08:05.German debate in order to stabilise their lives and live more

:08:06. > :08:14.independently. If their rhetoric means anything, ministers must not

:08:15. > :08:20.proceed with these plans. Also, people with learning disabilities

:08:21. > :08:25.also need supported housing. I must declare an interest, because I have

:08:26. > :08:35.an association with different associations. The previous Minister

:08:36. > :08:43.may take up these points. So if they are serious about helping people

:08:44. > :08:46.with learning disabilities and difficulties and exercise choice and

:08:47. > :08:54.control over their lives, they cannot possibly implement these

:08:55. > :08:58.cuts. I will give way. I thank him. I remember that meeting. It was that

:08:59. > :09:02.meeting that made it so clear why this review cannot be rushed. There

:09:03. > :09:06.are so many unique and different challenges that have to be supported

:09:07. > :09:12.through supported housing. It is right and proper that the government

:09:13. > :09:18.does not rush, but crucially make sure that the support remains in

:09:19. > :09:26.place. One of the speakers from the YMCA has said they have welcomed the

:09:27. > :09:31.action to protect supported housing. We cannot rush this, because buses

:09:32. > :09:38.were mistakes will happen. I thank him for his intervention. -- that is

:09:39. > :09:42.where mistakes will happen. But I must say surely it is a basic

:09:43. > :09:47.principle that we compiled the evidence and look at it and make an

:09:48. > :09:51.assessment before we decide? But the government have announced this and

:09:52. > :09:59.that is what has introduced the uncertainty. That is why schemes

:10:00. > :10:03.have been cancelled and housing providers are giving notice of their

:10:04. > :10:13.intention to close facilities. So I think there is a basic principle

:10:14. > :10:18.that needs to be applied. Does it really need to take 19 months to

:10:19. > :10:22.have an impact study on which the government can basic policy? I'm

:10:23. > :10:27.going to make a little progress. I know that lots of vulnerable and

:10:28. > :10:33.right honourable members want to contribute and I do not want to

:10:34. > :10:40.stifle their contributions. -- honourable. Can I remind the

:10:41. > :10:48.Minister that the government's own agency, the home communities agency

:10:49. > :10:53.has a net positive financial benefit of around ?640 million for the UK

:10:54. > :10:56.taxpayer every year. So, rather than cutting provision for supported

:10:57. > :11:01.housing, the government should be looking at expanding it and

:11:02. > :11:07.improving it. The National Housing Federation have already calculated

:11:08. > :11:11.there is a current shortfall of 15,640 supported housing places. So

:11:12. > :11:16.there is already considerable pressure on the sector. I did

:11:17. > :11:20.mention some of the reasons earlier. Local authorities and housing

:11:21. > :11:24.associations, charities and other providers in the sector really want

:11:25. > :11:28.to deliver the supported housing the people of this country need.

:11:29. > :11:33.Delivering this ambition is being made virtually impossible, because

:11:34. > :11:38.the government and made the operating environment so uncertain.

:11:39. > :11:43.Incredibly, in last year 's Autumn Statement, the then Chancellor, who

:11:44. > :11:46.introduced the cap on housing benefit to local housing allowance

:11:47. > :11:51.did this about the government actually knowing the impact it would

:11:52. > :11:56.have. And my right honourable friend highlighted this point when he spoke

:11:57. > :12:01.last January. And he pointed out, before the debate, he had asked

:12:02. > :12:05.ministers for evidence about the impact of the decision, specifically

:12:06. > :12:18.he had asked the Minister for Housing and planning. I suspect...

:12:19. > :12:22.The Minister says "Not me". Perhaps I am mistaken. Perhaps it was one of

:12:23. > :12:30.his colleagues. He asked how many elderly people would be affected. He

:12:31. > :12:34.asked how many women fleeing from domestic violence would be affected

:12:35. > :12:39.and young people with mental health problems and people leaving care and

:12:40. > :12:46.the Minister was not able to provide an answer. -- and people with mental

:12:47. > :12:52.health problems. So if he does not know, how can we expect them to make

:12:53. > :12:57.a decision? It is absolutely vital that we have this information at

:12:58. > :13:02.hand and make an informed decision. If they do not know what a profound

:13:03. > :13:05.impact on their decision is going to have an providers and people who

:13:06. > :13:11.depend on the services, and it seems they still do not know, unless they

:13:12. > :13:17.are not answering questions,. To be fair, ministers did commissioned a

:13:18. > :13:21.review, that was back in January 2000 and 15. Even though the review

:13:22. > :13:25.hadn't reported on its findings at the time of the last Autumn

:13:26. > :13:35.Statement, the Chancellor piled on regardless. Six months ago, eye was

:13:36. > :13:43.assured it would be ready earlier this year. So did they know what the

:13:44. > :13:48.impact of their decision would be when the Chancellor included it in

:13:49. > :13:52.his Autumn Statement? They did not know at the impact of their decision

:13:53. > :13:59.would be when the issue was debated, that's for sure, in this house six

:14:00. > :14:03.months ago. So it begs the question, what is happening and when will we

:14:04. > :14:07.know? When it comes to making policy, these ministers are old

:14:08. > :14:12.hands at making policy in an evidence free zone. The use of

:14:13. > :14:15.evidence to develop policy seems to be an alien concept to government

:14:16. > :14:21.and I would have thought it would be the natural order of things. It is

:14:22. > :14:26.something of a travesty. Although the evidence review seems to have

:14:27. > :14:31.ground to a halt, ministers cannot claim to be completely ignorant.

:14:32. > :14:37.After all, the providers of supported housing have made their

:14:38. > :14:44.feelings known. Teams will have met with charities and providers. We

:14:45. > :14:53.have met with them regularly and they have made their views plain.

:14:54. > :15:01.One said that housing providers will be forced to close. And he explained

:15:02. > :15:08.why rent in supported housing a higher. He pointed out the

:15:09. > :15:15.uncertainty of the future approach and how it is leading to

:15:16. > :15:20.underdevelopment or cancellations. And also delays in investment and

:15:21. > :15:26.development. I will give way. He is the most generous. He mentioned an

:15:27. > :15:33.evidence free zone, but so far all I have noted is continuous references

:15:34. > :15:38.to the national how did -- National Housing Federation. There are more

:15:39. > :15:42.voices than that. Isn't this about taking on those voices in discussing

:15:43. > :15:50.and gathering information. So it is not an evidence free zone. I am

:15:51. > :15:59.grateful to the Minister. I'm sorry... I'm sure it is a matter of

:16:00. > :16:05.time. Terribly confusing. I am grateful. I'm grateful for the

:16:06. > :16:15.member. He is right. A plethora of housing providers. I have had

:16:16. > :16:23.evidence from many. Various Housing associations, the National Housing

:16:24. > :16:34.Federation itself. Pardon? Women's eight. And they have all raised

:16:35. > :16:40.concerns about supported housing in particular sectors. -- Women's Aid.

:16:41. > :16:45.I haven't listed supporting members, but there is a thread that brings

:16:46. > :16:51.together. Before he finishes that long list, can I remind him that the

:16:52. > :16:54.YMCA are desperately concerned about these proposals and I think we

:16:55. > :16:59.should place on record that concern. I cannot believe anyone in this

:17:00. > :17:06.house wishes to destroy all the good work they have undertaken. I am

:17:07. > :17:14.grateful to him for pointing that out. What an important role they

:17:15. > :17:17.play in providing supported accommodation for young people,

:17:18. > :17:23.particularly for people who are leaving care for people in the

:17:24. > :17:27.younger age bracket. So I do think it is important that we look at the

:17:28. > :17:34.evidence. I do not think the sums add up. I know that ministers seem

:17:35. > :17:40.to be drawn to an evidence free policy area. Surely it must be

:17:41. > :17:45.obvious to them that a local discretionary scheme will not work.

:17:46. > :17:50.Previously, ministers have said that discretionary schemes can assist to

:17:51. > :17:52.mitigate. But that does not alleviate the uncertainty. Providers

:17:53. > :17:58.of supported housing need certainty in the rent stream to fund the cost

:17:59. > :18:07.of managing the schemes and service their own charges for developing

:18:08. > :18:11.them in the first place. I think any reasonable person would know that

:18:12. > :18:18.you cannot rely on a fluctuating income stream to service the cost of

:18:19. > :18:22.a home. So if they do persist with this ham-fisted plan, listening

:18:23. > :18:27.supported housing schemes will close. New supported schemes will be

:18:28. > :18:32.cancelled and some of the most honourable people will be left to

:18:33. > :18:37.fend for themselves. -- listed supported housing schemes. The new

:18:38. > :18:41.Prime Minister talked about the Conservative Party being the nasty

:18:42. > :18:47.party. She said she wanted a party that works for everyone. The

:18:48. > :18:51.government has an opportunity today to prove that the Prime Minister

:18:52. > :18:56.meant what she said seven days ago. If the newly appointed ministers

:18:57. > :18:59.refuse to listen to reason and proceed with these callous cuts,

:19:00. > :19:07.they will demonstrate that the Conservatives have not really

:19:08. > :19:14.changed. And they deserve the nasty label. I commend this to the house.

:19:15. > :19:22.The question is as on the order paper. Mr Damian Green. Thank you.

:19:23. > :19:27.It is an unexpected pleasure to be back at this spot box. And can I

:19:28. > :19:36.also thank the honourable gentleman for his welcome to me and my new

:19:37. > :19:42.ministerial team. And can I say at the outset that I understand the

:19:43. > :19:48.concerns that he has expressed from members on all sides in this debate

:19:49. > :19:53.and previous debates. This is clearly a hugely important issue and

:19:54. > :20:00.is a hugely sensitive issue and is a hugely difficult issue. Which is why

:20:01. > :20:07.I welcome this debate today. Can I start... Before I want to move on to

:20:08. > :20:15.the principles that I will implement when taking this decision, I will

:20:16. > :20:21.respond to a couple of points from the man from the Labour Party. I do

:20:22. > :20:25.agree with him that it relieves pressure on other public services.

:20:26. > :20:29.It does perform a hugely important job. Can I also say that is

:20:30. > :20:34.precisely why I am considering very carefully the costs and benefits of

:20:35. > :20:45.supported housing as a whole. He asked the two things in his

:20:46. > :20:50.speech. First of all he asked me to change the policy now. Secondly, he

:20:51. > :20:55.asked us to take the evidence first and then take a decision. I can

:20:56. > :20:59.either take one of his pieces of advice, or the other piece of

:21:00. > :21:03.advice. I cannot take both. So I am going to take his second piece of

:21:04. > :21:10.advice, look at the evidence first and then take a decision. That is

:21:11. > :21:14.the rational way to make policy. He mentioned various representations he

:21:15. > :21:18.had received, particularly from the National Housing Federation. I am

:21:19. > :21:25.happy to assure him, the Minister for local government and one of the

:21:26. > :21:31.ministers at the DWP, Lord Freud, met David or last week to discuss

:21:32. > :21:41.the precise details we need to get right to make sure we get this point

:21:42. > :21:43.correct. I welcome him to his post. On the question of the evidence

:21:44. > :21:50.review, is he aware from his briefings this was started in

:21:51. > :21:58.December 20 14th, so when will it be concluded? I will, as he will expect

:21:59. > :22:07.as an experienced member, becoming to that during the course of my

:22:08. > :22:12.speech. Because, it is, as I have said, complex, and getting it right

:22:13. > :22:16.is very, very important. Let me start by setting of the principles

:22:17. > :22:21.on which I will operate in this area. It is a great pleasure to

:22:22. > :22:28.welcome my honourable friend to the dispatch box. He has mentioned David

:22:29. > :22:31.or but there are other organisations who have concerns and different

:22:32. > :22:37.views on the subject. Will he commit to maintain the dialogue as he goes

:22:38. > :22:45.through the evidence? Absolutely, I will. I am just about coming up to

:22:46. > :22:50.the sixth Day anniversary of my occupation of this post so I

:22:51. > :22:55.apologise if I have not taken all the representations as yet, but I

:22:56. > :23:03.and my ministers are trying hard to do so. Everyone on all sides of the

:23:04. > :23:06.House knows the housing sector provides important support for

:23:07. > :23:10.individuals across the country. It supports those with learning

:23:11. > :23:13.difficulties, allows them to live as independently as possible and

:23:14. > :23:18.provides a safe refuge for those escaping from domestic violence. It

:23:19. > :23:23.helps ex-offenders for a successful transition back into mainstream

:23:24. > :23:28.society and supports those who have experienced homelessness. The sector

:23:29. > :23:35.helps to transform lives and allows people to live as independently as

:23:36. > :23:40.possible, move into work and to be safe, healthy and happy. It is a

:23:41. > :23:50.very important sector. All others, as constituency members have this

:23:51. > :23:54.kind of support being provided. I visited the porch light project

:23:55. > :24:01.which helps vulnerable people get housing, with mental health issues,

:24:02. > :24:05.education and employment. Vital work is done. From my previous experience

:24:06. > :24:11.in government I have seen the values of the sector within the criminal

:24:12. > :24:18.justice system. A stable and supportive housing environment can

:24:19. > :24:22.be the key to reducing reoffending. Accommodation is provided for people

:24:23. > :24:26.who have been bailed by the courts are released on home detention

:24:27. > :24:31.curfew after they have served a prison sentence. The service reduces

:24:32. > :24:36.unnecessary imprisonment and the negative effects it has on family

:24:37. > :24:41.life, unemployment and housing. It helps deter people from reoffending.

:24:42. > :24:48.I will give way. Thank you. I welcome him to his place. We have

:24:49. > :24:54.had a discussion about this with carers and they have told me they

:24:55. > :24:57.understand it is the first review to take place in 20 years and the total

:24:58. > :25:03.bill for housing benefit in this country is 25 billion pounds. It is

:25:04. > :25:09.right we take our time and explore all the options and try to come to

:25:10. > :25:13.the best resolution. I think my honourable friend is exactly right

:25:14. > :25:20.and the representations he has received is a very wise one. It is a

:25:21. > :25:26.huge sum of money being spent. It is important to spend it in the right

:25:27. > :25:29.way, not just the taxpayer, but to make sure we are spending that

:25:30. > :25:37.benefit in the way that helps these particularly vulnerable groups the

:25:38. > :25:41.most. I think this government has a strong record in supportive housing.

:25:42. > :25:47.We found many hostels and refuges were treated as supported, exempt

:25:48. > :25:56.accommodation although they didn't fit the technical definition. We

:25:57. > :26:02.regularised the position and protected their income streams. We

:26:03. > :26:05.exempted supported housing from the benefit cap. We have continued to

:26:06. > :26:14.meet housing costs for you burn of -- universal credit claimants who

:26:15. > :26:17.housing benefit. It is important so they don't have to adapt processes

:26:18. > :26:24.to accommodate the new arrangements while we work towards a new funding

:26:25. > :26:30.model for all parts of the sector. I am prepared to listen carefully to

:26:31. > :26:38.the concerns of the supported housing sector regarding the

:26:39. > :26:43.application allowance rates. Evidence of the flexibility with

:26:44. > :26:47.which I will approach this, the honourable gentleman, who spoke

:26:48. > :26:52.previously and others may notice there is written statements down on

:26:53. > :26:58.the order papers today about welfare reform which doodles with changes I

:26:59. > :27:02.am making and flexibility is I am introducing into the universal

:27:03. > :27:08.credit regime. I hope people will take that as a sign I am prepared to

:27:09. > :27:12.be as flexible as possible in making sure these vital welfare policies

:27:13. > :27:18.actually work. But this particular issue is high on my list of

:27:19. > :27:23.priorities. I'm keen to ensure the decisions I make don't unduly affect

:27:24. > :27:28.the sustainability of revision, the commissioning of new services, or

:27:29. > :27:32.the individuals who receive support. It is of course, worth noting at

:27:33. > :27:38.this point, the local housing allowance cap in any case, won't

:27:39. > :27:43.affect any benefit recipient until April 20 18. My department is

:27:44. > :27:47.working hard with colleagues at the Department for Communities and Local

:27:48. > :27:52.Government to resolve the issue. It is better to get it right than rush

:27:53. > :27:56.to make a decision. To answer directly the point of the right

:27:57. > :28:01.honourable gentleman, I expect to make an announcement on the way

:28:02. > :28:05.forward in the early autumn. We are going to spend the summer looking at

:28:06. > :28:10.the evidence and I will make an announcement in the early autumn. I

:28:11. > :28:15.will give way. I am grateful for that confirmation, although we have

:28:16. > :28:19.heard devious commitment and timescales come and go, but we look

:28:20. > :28:22.forward to hearing from the Secretary of State and holding him

:28:23. > :28:29.to that. Can I correct something he said earlier? It will be April 20

:28:30. > :28:35.17th when new tenancies will be affected in 2018. These changes come

:28:36. > :28:43.into effect before April 2018 and affect people from April 20 17th

:28:44. > :28:48.onwards. Which is why it is important and urgent he gets to

:28:49. > :28:53.grips with this problem. In cash terms, nobody will be changing their

:28:54. > :29:00.payments until April 2018, so that is what I was referring to. But I

:29:01. > :29:03.expect to make an announcement in the early autumn and I hope it will

:29:04. > :29:09.provide the certainty, that quite reasonably the sector is demanding.

:29:10. > :29:13.Of course we understand there are higher costs associated with

:29:14. > :29:19.providing supported housing. I recognise the potential impact this

:29:20. > :29:23.policy could have on the sector and its ability to support vulnerable

:29:24. > :29:29.people. I am also aware this needs to be considered, not just on its

:29:30. > :29:33.own, but alongside other policies that affect the whole sector,

:29:34. > :29:39.including the 1% annual rent reduction for social sector tenants

:29:40. > :29:42.in England. Returning to the timing point, the Minister for welfare

:29:43. > :29:46.reform announced an exemption for this particular sector for one year,

:29:47. > :29:50.which I hope has provided some Shorrocks for providers that while

:29:51. > :29:56.we complete the evidence review, they will know that nothing is going

:29:57. > :30:02.to happen precipitately and indeed, this exemption and a similar

:30:03. > :30:05.deferral to the 1% reduction has been welcomed by the sector

:30:06. > :30:13.generally and in particular by the much quoted National Housing

:30:14. > :30:16.Federation. Indeed, what I said when the deferral was announced, their

:30:17. > :30:22.chief executive said, we are pleased the government is listening to our

:30:23. > :30:27.concerns and has delayed the application of the cap. It is also

:30:28. > :30:30.welcome that there will be a full strategic review into how these

:30:31. > :30:35.services are funded and we will contribute fully to that review. I'm

:30:36. > :30:38.grateful to the National Housing Federation for making that

:30:39. > :30:44.commitment. They are still doing so and will continue to do so until we

:30:45. > :30:50.find a solution. Because we require a solution that is flexible enough

:30:51. > :30:53.to meet the needs of service users and providers while it remains

:30:54. > :30:57.affordable for the taxpayer and delivers value for money. We have

:30:58. > :31:01.been working with and listening to, not just the supportive housing

:31:02. > :31:09.providers and the umbrella bodies, not just the NHS but also the local

:31:10. > :31:12.Government Association and also local and individual authorities and

:31:13. > :31:16.local commissioners as well as those who represent the vulnerable groups

:31:17. > :31:20.who live in supportive housing and of course we have consulted the

:31:21. > :31:25.Welsh and Scottish Government is about implications for them. This

:31:26. > :31:31.extensive dialogue has been crucial to shape our thinking on this

:31:32. > :31:37.important issue. I want to continue this exchange of information and

:31:38. > :31:40.ideas. I will give way. I am grateful and welcome him to his

:31:41. > :31:45.place. As part of that solution will he look at the perceived barrier

:31:46. > :31:51.there preventing people getting back into work you will benefit from this

:31:52. > :31:55.kind of accommodation. The people I have met in these local facilities

:31:56. > :31:58.do feel ?250 a week in their effective cost for this

:31:59. > :32:06.accommodation, they cannot earn enough to be able to pay that amount

:32:07. > :32:10.of accommodation cost. My honourable friend makes a profound point, not

:32:11. > :32:15.just about this area but in essence, huge amounts of the work this

:32:16. > :32:22.department that actually enabling people who are not in work, to get

:32:23. > :32:28.back to work in some form, is not only the best thing for the public

:32:29. > :32:32.purse, it is absolutely and most importantly, almost always the best

:32:33. > :32:35.thing for them as well. Particularly with many of the people in the

:32:36. > :32:40.vulnerable groups we are talking about this afternoon, it will be

:32:41. > :32:44.especially valuable. So making sure the solution we come to contributes

:32:45. > :32:51.to that is an absolutely vital step forward. I will give way. I am

:32:52. > :32:55.grateful and I want to add my voice to the chorus of greetings. He has

:32:56. > :32:59.mentioned consultation with Cardiff and Edinburgh. In Northern Ireland

:33:00. > :33:09.we do get forgotten. Does this legislation have any relevance for

:33:10. > :33:13.Northern Ireland? My understanding is it is completely devolved in

:33:14. > :33:18.Northern Ireland, but if I have misled the House and in particular,

:33:19. > :33:23.the honourable gentleman, I will write to him to correct myself on

:33:24. > :33:26.that. It is conceivable when my honourable friend winds of the

:33:27. > :33:31.debate, she might be wiser and better informed than I am on that

:33:32. > :33:36.particular issue. It has been known to happen, I know Junior ministers

:33:37. > :33:42.at the end of the debate are much better informed than the Secretary

:33:43. > :33:47.of State at the start of the debate. My department has commissioned an

:33:48. > :33:51.evidence review to look at the shape, scale and cost of the sector.

:33:52. > :33:57.The reform of the funding model was something already being considered

:33:58. > :34:07.as worth doing on its own merits, long before the policy was announced

:34:08. > :34:11.at the last Autumn Statement. The point has been made, this is the

:34:12. > :34:17.first full review of this particular provision for 20 years. So, it does

:34:18. > :34:25.seem that getting it right is important. The review is, as I've

:34:26. > :34:30.said, in its final stages and has provided some valuable insights,

:34:31. > :34:36.which I look forward to sharing with the House once those findings have

:34:37. > :34:40.been confirmed and tested. What the evidence review, the discussions

:34:41. > :34:45.with the sector and the policy review undertaken by government has

:34:46. > :34:50.made clear to me, is that in order to fulfil our obligations to those

:34:51. > :34:55.people who rely on this accommodation and support, we must

:34:56. > :34:59.ensure for things. First, it must be funded appropriately in order to

:35:00. > :35:05.continue to support vulnerable people and sustain this vital

:35:06. > :35:08.sector. Secondly, it must deliver value for money for both the

:35:09. > :35:14.taxpayer and the individual being supported by the accommodation.

:35:15. > :35:18.Thirdly, it must ensure those living in supported housing are receiving

:35:19. > :35:25.high-quality outcomes, focused care and support. And fourthly, we must

:35:26. > :35:30.ensure costs are controlled. We cannot let the welfare bill get out

:35:31. > :35:34.of control. It is important only those individuals who truly require

:35:35. > :35:40.this provision are able to access it and division matches genuine local

:35:41. > :35:45.need. It is clear to me from the work undertaken so far that while

:35:46. > :35:50.the sector is delivering exemplary services and support in many places,

:35:51. > :35:54.the current system doesn't deliver on all of those objectives. So there

:35:55. > :36:00.are genuine problems that need to be addressed. And the reformed model we

:36:01. > :36:08.will produce later this year, needs to do more to ensure value for

:36:09. > :36:14.money. And demonstrated by the providers. Also, more focus on the

:36:15. > :36:21.quality of provision and the individual outcomes from those who

:36:22. > :36:24.obtain this provision, this seems to be a very important next step

:36:25. > :36:28.forward for this sector. I will give way.

:36:29. > :36:35.I want if you would like to rephrase that. There is outcome state are

:36:36. > :36:41.better than any government department has been doing for the

:36:42. > :36:45.last ten years in my experience. If local government, or even national

:36:46. > :36:49.government, was ever expected to get quantitative or qualitative data I

:36:50. > :36:55.had to get in refuge, you would fall apart immediately.

:36:56. > :37:03.Order, order. I wouldn't fall apart, neither would the chair. I'm quite

:37:04. > :37:07.sure the honourable lady knew where she was directing her remarks.

:37:08. > :37:11.Secretary of State. I am happy to be reassured that under no

:37:12. > :37:15.circumstances would I envisage you would ever fall apart. The

:37:16. > :37:19.honourable lady makes a profound point. It is often the case that the

:37:20. > :37:26.voluntary sector provides services better than the state either at

:37:27. > :37:31.local or national level. And indeed, it is one of the Central purposes of

:37:32. > :37:36.many of the policies of this government, that we should harness

:37:37. > :37:41.the energy and ability and innovation of the voluntary sector,

:37:42. > :37:45.precisely to provide services which might otherwise be provided less

:37:46. > :37:51.well by the state. The point I was making is that, on the evidence I've

:37:52. > :37:55.seen so far, while it is true that some of the provision is absolutely

:37:56. > :37:59.excellent, it's also true that some provision falls well short of that,

:38:00. > :38:04.so actually establishing if some of that is contributed to by the way

:38:05. > :38:09.that the sector is supported is a sensible thing for government to try

:38:10. > :38:14.to do. Because what we want to do is build on the examples of what's

:38:15. > :38:16.already happening, to ensure there is more consistency in quality and

:38:17. > :38:22.value for money across the country. I think there is nothing that would

:38:23. > :38:28.divide anyone in this house on that. So I do understand the urgency of

:38:29. > :38:31.the matter today. I can, as I have done, commit to making an

:38:32. > :38:34.announcement early in the autumn which will set out the Government's

:38:35. > :38:39.views on what that future funding solution should look like. It will

:38:40. > :38:43.also set out our plans for working with the sector and the other key

:38:44. > :38:47.stakeholders to ensure a safe transition to the new model.

:38:48. > :38:52.Can I thank my right honourable friend to giving way. Can he also

:38:53. > :38:59.consider we might want to look at the cost of utility bills, when

:39:00. > :39:03.supporting people who are living in supported housing? That is part of

:39:04. > :39:07.the whole benefit story as well. I think my honourable friend makes a

:39:08. > :39:13.good point, and certainly that will be fed into the review of the

:39:14. > :39:19.evidence that we are now coming to the end of. And so, between now and

:39:20. > :39:22.then I will continue to work with colleagues across Whitehall and with

:39:23. > :39:27.the sector to make sure we get right the details that underpins the

:39:28. > :39:33.objectives that I've just set out. And by doing so, we will ensure the

:39:34. > :39:35.reforms that are effective and proportionate and by working

:39:36. > :39:39.constructively with the sector I believe we will come to a solution

:39:40. > :39:45.that is workable, deliverable and most important of all, provides the

:39:46. > :39:48.best support possible to the most vulnerable people in our society.

:39:49. > :39:53.That is why I welcome this debate. I think it is a perfectly reasonable

:39:54. > :39:57.and sensible debate for the opposition to call. I'm keen to hear

:39:58. > :40:03.views across the House and from those in the sector, who I know will

:40:04. > :40:07.be urging members on all sides to raise their concerns in this debate.

:40:08. > :40:12.The sector is very diverse and its needs are very broad, so the more

:40:13. > :40:16.input and thought which goes into developing a solution, the better

:40:17. > :40:19.the outcomes for all. We need to get this right. I'm determined to get

:40:20. > :40:26.this right and we will get this right. So I invite the House to

:40:27. > :40:29.reject the motion before it today. Order, it will be obvious to the

:40:30. > :40:32.House there are a great many people who wish to contribute to this

:40:33. > :40:39.afternoon's bait and limited time available. After the spokesman for

:40:40. > :40:48.the Scottish National party has spoken there will be a limit of five

:40:49. > :40:53.minutes on backbench speeches. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The

:40:54. > :40:58.SNP will continue to give him a hard time as much as we can do. I'm very

:40:59. > :41:05.glad to be able to respond to this debate on behalf of the SNP and

:41:06. > :41:09.supported housing providers and clients in Scotland, who are deeply

:41:10. > :41:13.worried about what the future holds. Supported housing projects provide a

:41:14. > :41:18.range of people with vital support which saves this government money in

:41:19. > :41:21.hospital beds, prisons and resolving homelessness. As was made clear in

:41:22. > :41:24.the adjournment debate last week, provision is under threat by the

:41:25. > :41:29.continued uncertainty over this policy. I am appalled that the

:41:30. > :41:37.people supported by this sector are being put at risk by lackadaisical,

:41:38. > :41:44.speak now figure it out later attitudes. Supporting housing covers

:41:45. > :41:49.a load of hosing types including hostels, sheltered housing, these

:41:50. > :41:54.schemes are designed to meet the needs of particular client groups,

:41:55. > :42:00.such as people with mental health issues, learning or physical

:42:01. > :42:04.disabilities, victims, women at risk of domestic violence, service

:42:05. > :42:07.veterans, teenage parents and older people. On the 13th of June

:42:08. > :42:12.communities local government committee held evidence from the

:42:13. > :42:15.directive of working age benefits and the committee quite

:42:16. > :42:18.categorically that the intention is to publish the evidence review and

:42:19. > :42:23.policy conclusions before the summer recess. Over a month from them has

:42:24. > :42:27.now passed and we are not any clear on this. The Secretary of State says

:42:28. > :42:32.autumn, I would remind him that govern 's Autumn Statement last year

:42:33. > :42:36.ended up appearing in November. I want to know more clarity on when

:42:37. > :42:39.this will actually come forward. I appreciate this work is very complex

:42:40. > :42:46.but the Government has had a long time now to figure this out. I am

:42:47. > :42:51.confident many housing sector members said what they require and

:42:52. > :43:00.this review has taken to long. Otto Prcic government -- I hope the

:43:01. > :43:03.Government addresses this. This is the Scottish Federation of Housing

:43:04. > :43:08.associations told me that the proposals for the capping of housing

:43:09. > :43:15.benefits of social housing including phone supported housing as it stands

:43:16. > :43:21.as a catastrophic effect. They are not mincing words. They warn should

:43:22. > :43:25.the cap precede most social housing will be shut down. Future

:43:26. > :43:31.development will be cancelled or mothballed and tenants of supported

:43:32. > :43:35.families will find it hard to plan for the future. If the services go,

:43:36. > :43:39.there are a few options for people who rely on these services. We are

:43:40. > :43:44.limited in Scotland on what we can do with the cap. We have spent in

:43:45. > :43:47.the region of ?100 million mitigating the bedroom tax until we

:43:48. > :43:51.get to the point where we can abolish it. Scottish Parliament does

:43:52. > :43:54.not extend to changing the rules on social housing. As he can expect,

:43:55. > :44:01.the Scottish Government have condemned this layer and

:44:02. > :44:08.uncertainty. In February we called end this unexpected state of

:44:09. > :44:12.uncertainty. I would like to provide similar strange and is of the types

:44:13. > :44:21.of services currently at risk. The blue triangle project in Glasgow

:44:22. > :44:28.provides housing for those at risk. They said they valued that advice in

:44:29. > :44:31.the project was one man told me his family situation has deteriorated,

:44:32. > :44:35.he found himself on the streets. Even with a crowd who thought were

:44:36. > :44:39.his friends, woke up in the street having been assaulted and robbed and

:44:40. > :44:43.felt incredibly vulnerable. If it was not for the service provided by

:44:44. > :44:45.blue triangle he fears he would not have survived this experience. The

:44:46. > :44:51.service is not cheap. The young people they deal with need help and

:44:52. > :44:55.support to develop their skills and get their lives back on track. The

:44:56. > :44:59.flats are based in the city centre, which is very important, in terms of

:45:00. > :45:05.making the service easy to access, but that costs blue triangle a lot

:45:06. > :45:10.in terms of accommodation. The building needs to be kept safe and

:45:11. > :45:15.secure and flats need to be refurbished often to give the

:45:16. > :45:19.tenants feel of self-worth. This is put at risk by continued

:45:20. > :45:24.uncertainty. This shared accommodation in Glasgow for under

:45:25. > :45:31.35 series ?68 and ?25 but rent for the accommodation that Blue Traingle

:45:32. > :45:39.provide this ?345 a week, a ?273 shortfall. Over a year this result

:45:40. > :45:43.in a gap of ?355,000. For the young people who have nowhere else to go,

:45:44. > :45:49.this service is absolutely vital. The Government wants to put... Would

:45:50. > :45:57.leave them unable to afford accommodation of their own to move

:45:58. > :46:01.on into. Another service in Bridgeton is a vital one in my

:46:02. > :46:05.constituency. It supports men coming out of prison, homelessness and a

:46:06. > :46:11.range of other circumstances. When I went recently I was met by Donald

:46:12. > :46:17.who recently suffered a stroke. He lived there ten months and is

:46:18. > :46:20.excited by taking on a supported tenant in a scatter flat. This is a

:46:21. > :46:23.seamless service which allows people to move when they are ready to and

:46:24. > :46:27.when they feel a little and continuous support. I don't know

:46:28. > :46:34.where Donald would have gone if it wasn't for the Arch. The pride he

:46:35. > :46:38.had, and what they staff had assisted him to overcome, his face

:46:39. > :46:41.shone with pride with what he had achieved through the help and

:46:42. > :46:45.support of the service. Donald and others like you need to know what

:46:46. > :46:49.the future is that this kind of supported accommodation. It is also

:46:50. > :46:53.important to note he was able to stay there until he felt able to

:46:54. > :46:57.move on. That is very, very important. If you move people on

:46:58. > :47:01.before they are ready, those people will fail and end up back through

:47:02. > :47:08.some other system costing us all more money. Women fleeing from

:47:09. > :47:12.domestic violence also need to know that the life-saving refuge services

:47:13. > :47:16.provided by women's aid organisations across the UK will

:47:17. > :47:19.continue to be available. The member for Birmingham Yardley has been in

:47:20. > :47:23.the chamber and out she is going to speak on this later on from her own

:47:24. > :47:26.expertise. The services don't often shout about what they do,

:47:27. > :47:30.understandably there is a lot of secrecy and privacy to protect the

:47:31. > :47:34.women and children they support. But if they did not exist, women and

:47:35. > :47:41.children would be in situations of grave danger. In a letter to the

:47:42. > :47:45.Minister for welfare reform, women's aid indicated it will have a

:47:46. > :47:50.devastating impact. Scottish women's aid have given some examples of the

:47:51. > :47:57.impact the cap will have for them. In one rural areas the cap would

:47:58. > :48:02.result in an annual loss of ?5,800 for a two bedroom refuge flat. In an

:48:03. > :48:09.urban area of the loss of one-bedroom flat ?7,100. In another

:48:10. > :48:14.semiurban area the cost is ?11,600 per year. In each case the financial

:48:15. > :48:18.cost will be multiplied by the number of refuge spaces available.

:48:19. > :48:23.It is absolutely clear that these losses will make these services are

:48:24. > :48:26.unsustainable and they will close. I also wish to highlight another

:48:27. > :48:33.paragraph directly from Scottish women's aid's letter to Lord Freud

:48:34. > :48:37.concerning under 35s accommodation. The proposed introduction of the

:48:38. > :48:41.under 35s shared accommodation rate to social housing is also places

:48:42. > :48:47.women under the age of 35 that much greater risk of further abuse. If

:48:48. > :48:50.women under the age of 35 are unable to access refuge accommodation or

:48:51. > :48:53.move into their own tenancy because of restriction on their entitlement

:48:54. > :49:01.to housing benefit, this effectively prevents them from leaving an

:49:02. > :49:05.abusive partner. In 2014-15 26-30 -year-old age group had the highest

:49:06. > :49:08.incidence rate of domestic abuse recorded by the police in Scotland.

:49:09. > :49:13.Women in this age group clearly have a significant need for domestic

:49:14. > :49:17.abuse support services, including refuge accommodation. Madam Deputy

:49:18. > :49:20.Speaker, it seems clear to me this government has very little

:49:21. > :49:23.understanding of the impact its policies have on women, particularly

:49:24. > :49:32.women suffering domestic violence. These policies in addition to the

:49:33. > :49:35.two child policy and the single household payment on universal

:49:36. > :49:40.credit. These limit women's option and put them at risk. The statement

:49:41. > :49:45.today by the Secretary of State gives me no reassurance that these

:49:46. > :49:51.aspects of the vulnerability of women from the welfare system have

:49:52. > :49:55.been addressed. I seek further clarity and further detail from

:49:56. > :50:01.ministers on this. In Scotland, refugees are subject to limited

:50:02. > :50:03.organisations and local housing associations and funded by local and

:50:04. > :50:08.national government. They are a crucial part of Scotland's equally

:50:09. > :50:13.safe strategy to protect women and girls. This UK Government is

:50:14. > :50:17.undermining the significant work. We have a minister now who claims to be

:50:18. > :50:25.a feminist, she needs to take note and let her heartless minister

:50:26. > :50:29.unaccountable to this house... I know she does a huge amount of

:50:30. > :50:34.very important work in this area, but remember we have trebled the

:50:35. > :50:39.funding for women's refuges. ?870 million in this Parliament has been

:50:40. > :50:49.delivered with the flexibility, working with the police, social

:50:50. > :50:52.services to provide support. This government gives with one hand and

:50:53. > :50:58.takes away with the other. That is not good enough. It has made

:50:59. > :51:03.absolutely clear by women's organisations that these payments

:51:04. > :51:07.are not enough to guarantee the certainty and future of the

:51:08. > :51:11.services. They are discretionary. They are discretionary, that means

:51:12. > :51:14.they are not part of the funding package, they are at the discretion

:51:15. > :51:16.of those providing that payment. That is not good enough and there

:51:17. > :51:20.needs to be greater certainty on that.

:51:21. > :51:27.As I was saying, this government needs to make sure the

:51:28. > :51:31.infrastructure to protect women and children is not dismantled under

:51:32. > :51:36.this feminist new Prime Minister. Under her watch, the services must

:51:37. > :51:42.guaranteed with a sound, solid future because women's lives depend

:51:43. > :51:47.on it. I am still not reassured the language of the minister at the

:51:48. > :51:51.dispatch box last Tuesday, he said we must make sure funding for

:51:52. > :51:55.supported housing is a fishing, workable and sustainable, so it

:51:56. > :52:02.provides a secure and quality service and makes the best use of

:52:03. > :52:08.the money available. In needs to be focused, accountable and planned.

:52:09. > :52:13.This suggests to me and elements of a box ticking exercise and I would

:52:14. > :52:18.caution the varied support needs amongst those accessing supported

:52:19. > :52:22.accommodation. We must reflect that in whatever outcome we have from

:52:23. > :52:26.this review. A woman with children fleeing from a life of abuse and

:52:27. > :52:32.control does not have the same needs as an elderly man moving into

:52:33. > :52:36.sheltered accommodation or a young person recovering from a stroke. We

:52:37. > :52:41.must be mindful of the needs of each person we're looking at. When we are

:52:42. > :52:44.talking about outcomes, it cannot be that they just move on after six

:52:45. > :52:50.months or happen specifically. We are dealing as I mentioned Donald

:52:51. > :52:54.earlier, people have complex needs and must be allowed to stay in that

:52:55. > :53:00.accommodation until such time they are able to move on. If they are

:53:01. > :53:04.unable to move on and we push them out before time, those people end up

:53:05. > :53:06.on the streets or in prison, or very, very vulnerable indeed. I

:53:07. > :53:13.would urge this government to take the widest possible interpretation

:53:14. > :53:20.for value for money. I am deeply concerned by the changes proposed. I

:53:21. > :53:29.have only scratched the surface of the cap. When you look at elderly

:53:30. > :53:33.accommodation for services for learning and physical impairments,

:53:34. > :53:37.also ex-services personnel, without these services, those who depend on

:53:38. > :53:41.them and the support they provide will be exceptionally vulnerable.

:53:42. > :53:50.Attending to their needs could mean hospital stays costing over ?500 a

:53:51. > :53:58.night. Risen, over ?194,000 a year. -- prison. And also the loss of

:53:59. > :54:03.potential. They can live life with a great degree of independence when

:54:04. > :54:08.they received the right support and accommodation. We need to think long

:54:09. > :54:12.and invest in the services and investing event did spend.

:54:13. > :54:17.Supportive accommodation can turn lives around. The government must

:54:18. > :54:24.recognise this and ensure the future of supported accommodation. Thank

:54:25. > :54:27.you. I'm grateful to speak in this important debate which follows on

:54:28. > :54:33.from the adjournment debate which I led last Thursday. It rides an

:54:34. > :54:39.opportunity to re-emphasise to the work and pension is department is

:54:40. > :54:44.the vital importance of putting supported housing on a long-term

:54:45. > :54:49.footing. It is essential we do this, so as not to let down a very

:54:50. > :54:53.vulnerable group of people, whether they are elderly, young, have a

:54:54. > :54:57.physical disability, suffered domestic violence or face mental

:54:58. > :55:00.health challenges. Credit is due to the government for carrying out the

:55:01. > :55:05.first evidence -based review of the sector for 20 years and consulting

:55:06. > :55:09.far and lies. I have welcomed the fact they have accepted those for a

:55:10. > :55:13.need for long term sustainable solution and not just a short-term

:55:14. > :55:16.sticking plaster and they will work with and listen to stakeholders in

:55:17. > :55:21.order to develop a viable and sustainable funding gene. My

:55:22. > :55:27.intention is to be helpful and not hostile, but I have to say the feed

:55:28. > :55:30.back I am receiving is that those involved in supported housing are

:55:31. > :55:35.very worried about the future. The whole sector is in limbo and there

:55:36. > :55:40.is a policy vacuum that must be filled. The one-year exemption for

:55:41. > :55:44.supported housing from the 1% reduction for social housing

:55:45. > :55:50.landlords and the one-year delay in applying the local housing allowance

:55:51. > :55:59.cap in supported housing provides some breathing space, but the clock

:56:00. > :56:02.is ticking down to April 2017 when this grace period expires. It is

:56:03. > :56:08.important to have new policies in place before them, to remove worries

:56:09. > :56:13.about the viability of existing schemes, but act as a catalyst for

:56:14. > :56:19.attracting much-needed, new investment into the sector. Over the

:56:20. > :56:22.past three months I have received representations, had meetings and

:56:23. > :56:26.visited a wide variety of organisations, national and local,

:56:27. > :56:31.all very concerned about the future of the sector. The depth and breadth

:56:32. > :56:35.of this story emphasises the importance of putting in place a

:56:36. > :56:40.sustainable framework as soon as possible. The prospect of the local

:56:41. > :56:44.housing allowance cap being applied to residents in supported housing

:56:45. > :56:50.after the one-year delay, is causing considerable unease and concern. The

:56:51. > :56:53.cap undermines several pieces of legislation introduced in recent

:56:54. > :57:01.years, including specified accommodation and also the transform

:57:02. > :57:05.in care programme. In framing their proposals, it is vital the

:57:06. > :57:08.government have in mind, the needs of those charities, housing

:57:09. > :57:13.associations and social investors, both already active and doing great

:57:14. > :57:18.work in this sector and those looking to get involved. There is an

:57:19. > :57:23.enormous amount of goodwill and capital waiting in the wings for a

:57:24. > :57:25.framework to be put in place that will enable these social

:57:26. > :57:29.entrepreneurs to step up to the plate and carry out projects that

:57:30. > :57:35.will bring great and if it's too many. Madam Deputy Speaker I shall

:57:36. > :57:40.be voting with the government this afternoon, as I believe it is fair

:57:41. > :57:45.to give a new team a chance to come up with a just and sustainable

:57:46. > :57:49.long-term strategy. I sense from what the Secretary of State has

:57:50. > :57:55.said, there is a real determination and desire to do this. There is a

:57:56. > :58:00.lot of work for them to do, but a lot of good ideas have been put

:58:01. > :58:07.forward, including from the National Housing Federation. As have the home

:58:08. > :58:13.group. The latter have identified the need for a new funding mechanism

:58:14. > :58:17.to be designed in such a way, it can be run by devolved administrations.

:58:18. > :58:22.I urge the government to consider these proposals very carefully and I

:58:23. > :58:27.look forward to hearing from the Secretary of State when he returns

:58:28. > :58:32.to the dispatch box in the autumn, with his recommendations for this

:58:33. > :58:37.chamber to both consider and debate. It is vital Madam Deputy Speaker, we

:58:38. > :58:45.get this right. We know it to a very vulnerable group of people, that we

:58:46. > :58:49.do so. Thank you. The honourable gentleman came to my Westminster

:58:50. > :58:55.Hall debate on this subject in March, when the reports the

:58:56. > :59:00.government has offered was imminent. Marge was the first time we were

:59:01. > :59:04.going to get this. He held his own adjournment debate on this topic

:59:05. > :59:12.here on the floor of the House last week, which I attended. It is not

:59:13. > :59:18.for want of raising the issue that we remain where we are today. I

:59:19. > :59:22.would like to welcome my honourable friend, the member for Easington to

:59:23. > :59:27.his new responsibilities. I want to thank him for the way in which he

:59:28. > :59:33.has set out the Labour Party's case which is what Labour Party's

:59:34. > :59:36.debating time. I welcome the new Secretary of State to his new

:59:37. > :59:42.responsibilities. I think the worst thing I can say about him is I do

:59:43. > :59:46.have confidence in him and I want to welcome the way he responded to the

:59:47. > :59:50.questions raised by my honourable friend in this debate today. In

:59:51. > :59:55.particular, I want to thank him very much for recognising firmly from the

:59:56. > :00:03.government dispatch box, the knock-on effects in this policy

:00:04. > :00:07.area, that the introduction of the cap, if it is to be done, and I

:00:08. > :00:12.accept the government has postponed it for a year to pause for further

:00:13. > :00:16.reflection, but the impact on departments like the Department for

:00:17. > :00:23.Justice, which he knows well, the Home Office and the police service

:00:24. > :00:28.and indeed, the Ambulance Service and the national health service, a

:00:29. > :00:35.very profound. This is a point, just like every point that has been made

:00:36. > :00:41.in this debate, has been made in the last few months, it is this point

:00:42. > :00:46.that has profound consequences. Because the interventions that flow

:00:47. > :00:50.from the police, having to pick somebody up because they are

:00:51. > :00:52.incapable of looking after themselves, somebody being lonely

:00:53. > :00:56.and bewildered without a home because they will not be supported

:00:57. > :01:01.within it, it may be picked up by the health service. But the health

:01:02. > :01:07.service can offer no long-term solution to what is a social care

:01:08. > :01:12.problem. It seems to me the secretary of state is at the head of

:01:13. > :01:20.the difficult demarcation dispute, as to who should pay for the care

:01:21. > :01:27.element that is implicit in social housing, where the housing benefit

:01:28. > :01:32.certainly covers the housing element, but it also covers an

:01:33. > :01:39.element of care. I understand the point he made about public funds and

:01:40. > :01:45.making sure what is done is value for the public purse. I have no

:01:46. > :01:48.quarrel with that, it is perfectly right the government should always

:01:49. > :01:56.have a care for the quality of spend public money is. But I have to say

:01:57. > :02:00.in the debates on this topic I have attended, not a single conservative,

:02:01. > :02:05.Scottish Nationalists or Labour member has raised an example of

:02:06. > :02:10.fashionable tax eating or anything that gets even close to that. The

:02:11. > :02:16.projects we have visited, and they are projects, as we have heard, but

:02:17. > :02:22.do with elderly care who need the care element, drug and alcohol

:02:23. > :02:26.problems and just aren't managing on the very difficult path to

:02:27. > :02:29.rehabilitation, that they are trying to pursue. Children and young people

:02:30. > :02:39.who have care needs and should not be abandoned just to the outside

:02:40. > :02:45.world. People with physical and even more mental disabilities, who can

:02:46. > :02:50.get by in the world with a bit of care and help on direction. People

:02:51. > :02:58.with learning disabilities. People who are estranged and having

:02:59. > :03:04.difficulty in resettling into modern life. Homeless people, who need

:03:05. > :03:09.assistance in taking up and finding their way through, maybe even

:03:10. > :03:15.through education and training schemes, also funded by his

:03:16. > :03:19.department and the employment opportunities his department works

:03:20. > :03:27.so hard to try get people into. Members from all across the House

:03:28. > :03:31.have raised the plight of women fleeing violence, terrified, needing

:03:32. > :03:36.somewhere they believe is safe for them. Physically safe for them.

:03:37. > :03:42.Accommodation. I'm sure the housing benefit can provide the housing

:03:43. > :03:46.element of that. But in all humanity there is a need for care, support

:03:47. > :03:51.and for somebody to say when they fleeing violence, we are on your

:03:52. > :03:59.side and we are here to help you. That is the case that I hope the

:04:00. > :04:05.Minister can respond to over the next few months. Justin Tomlinson.

:04:06. > :04:09.May I pay tribute to the fantastic new team that will be responding to

:04:10. > :04:15.this debate and I pay tribute to the shadow Foreign Minister, I met him

:04:16. > :04:18.in a former role and he did demonstrate a real concern in this

:04:19. > :04:21.area and a proactive way up putting forward a powerful case for

:04:22. > :04:26.something I very much hope this government will continue to listen

:04:27. > :04:31.to. I welcome the tone of the new Secretary of State in how he

:04:32. > :04:36.responded. This is a complex area. We are talking about some of the

:04:37. > :04:40.most vulnerable people in society. Instinctively we want certainty. It

:04:41. > :04:44.is a very powerful argument, if we can provide certainty today, there

:04:45. > :04:51.will be much rejoicing. Sometimes we can be too quick. This is such a

:04:52. > :04:54.complex and complicated issue. I have visited many, many different

:04:55. > :04:59.organisations, charities and providers who do a wonderful job.

:05:00. > :05:06.Each and everyone are unique in how they tackle the challenges they are

:05:07. > :05:10.presented with to provide the level of support and opportunities. We

:05:11. > :05:14.cannot rush this, we have to get a ride. Otherwise, to unintended

:05:15. > :05:22.consequences, some of the most vulnerable people in society will

:05:23. > :05:26.pay the consequences. I am encourage the team we have will engage with

:05:27. > :05:31.those stakeholders and many of those stakeholders have a huge amount of

:05:32. > :05:34.experience, have experienced policy teams and will come in and spell out

:05:35. > :05:39.the best way to do that. Why not rushing this decision they can shape

:05:40. > :05:44.and influence what this government can do. It is not unreasonable to

:05:45. > :05:49.wait until the autumn to get further details. As a government we do have

:05:50. > :05:52.a proud record in this area. We spend about 50 billion pounds

:05:53. > :05:59.supporting those with disabilities and long-term health conditions. 200

:06:00. > :06:03.people a week have got into work and come off housing benefit, then a

:06:04. > :06:09.fitting from the growing economy and rising wages. Change it to the

:06:10. > :06:12.housing benefit rules are saving approximately ?2 billion a year.

:06:13. > :06:17.Over a million social sector tenants would benefit from the 1% reduction

:06:18. > :06:25.in rent and they cannot be forgotten in this discussion. In temporary

:06:26. > :06:30.housing, people typically spend several months left. We have seen

:06:31. > :06:32.the waiting list go from 1.7 to 1.2 million. I remember the anger in

:06:33. > :06:38.this chamber in the urgent question I faced in many debates, but all too

:06:39. > :06:41.often those people who are in appropriate accommodation, left

:06:42. > :06:45.waiting on the housing list with their families, looking enviously at

:06:46. > :06:47.those where the children have grown up and left and it is right we never

:06:48. > :06:57.forget those. The increase in funding allows that

:06:58. > :07:00.flexibility to work with services like the police, social services and

:07:01. > :07:05.medical professionals, all underlined by the public sector duty

:07:06. > :07:08.and recognising the importance of devolution and in different towns

:07:09. > :07:14.and communities there are different challenges and opportunities. We

:07:15. > :07:17.have committed ?400 million to deliver 8000 specialist homes,

:07:18. > :07:21.specifically for vulnerable, elderly and those with disabilities. There

:07:22. > :07:26.has been the 79 cents increase in the disability facilities grant,

:07:27. > :07:29.seeing the funding go from 220 million to 394 million, helping an

:07:30. > :07:34.additional ?40,000. And half ?1 billion set aside to tackle the

:07:35. > :07:39.concerns with homelessness during this Parliament. But the key for me

:07:40. > :07:42.is recognising in this review the further opportunities for joint up

:07:43. > :07:47.working. We set the ball working with the joint work and health unit,

:07:48. > :07:50.using the brightest people buy from DWP on the Department of Health,

:07:51. > :07:56.looking at what opportunities can be. Almost as it's I have seen first

:07:57. > :08:00.hand, I have seen foxes Academy, a former Hotel in Bridgewater, whether

:08:01. > :08:03.the first two years they support the young adults with learning

:08:04. > :08:08.disabilities to progressively improve their independent living

:08:09. > :08:11.opportunities and working with local employers to create real tangible

:08:12. > :08:15.job outcomes. In this contributor have a learning disability would

:08:16. > :08:19.only expect a 6% chance of having a meaningful career, yet through the

:08:20. > :08:23.work of the supported housing, independent living and training it

:08:24. > :08:27.is 80% of the students of Fox's Academy who go into that. That

:08:28. > :08:31.should be best practice or in isolation, it should be given. It is

:08:32. > :08:35.right we take the time to talk to such huge range of expertise that is

:08:36. > :08:41.out there. In my own constituency I saw voyage care and in Cheltenham

:08:42. > :08:46.the learner gesture is there is a focus on the quality of life,

:08:47. > :08:51.supporting however they can to give them the things we take for granted.

:08:52. > :08:56.My final plea is with the welcomed introduction of the national living

:08:57. > :08:59.wage, this impact on a huge and abrupt staff providing this care. We

:09:00. > :09:03.need to make sure funding is in place to make sure we can get the

:09:04. > :09:07.best staff in these jobs. Order. Before we continue with the

:09:08. > :09:13.debate, I have to announce the announcer today's two deferred

:09:14. > :09:23.divisions. In respect to the question on atomic subsidies, the

:09:24. > :09:29.ayes were 312, the noes were 206. The ayes have it. In respect of

:09:30. > :09:37.climate change, the ayes were 310, the noes was 206. So the ayes habit.

:09:38. > :09:45.Order. Order. We will continue with the debate. Pat Glass.

:09:46. > :09:49.I will keep my remarks to in, because I didn't intend to speak in

:09:50. > :09:53.this debate. It's when I looked at the list of people who were

:09:54. > :09:57.potentially impacted upon by these decisions that I felt I had to come

:09:58. > :10:01.along and speak today. I came into this place, as many of us did on

:10:02. > :10:05.both sides of the House, to protect those who are most probable in our

:10:06. > :10:10.society and I believe it is a Keira all of government that as we move

:10:11. > :10:30.forward together, nobody gets left behind.

:10:31. > :10:34.-- a decision in the spring, in the autumn, and in the meantime future

:10:35. > :10:38.provision is not being built because of the uncertainty and those

:10:39. > :10:41.existing provisions feel the uncertainty makes their future a

:10:42. > :10:44.little less sustainable. They're people who are going to be affected

:10:45. > :10:49.by these, they are older people. I have had a look at some of these

:10:50. > :10:52.provisions in my constituency. My father was very ill and

:10:53. > :10:55.unfortunately he died and we didn't need the provision. I looked at it

:10:56. > :10:59.and it was really good provision, when people could close their own

:11:00. > :11:01.doors when they needed to, as we'll need to on some occasions, but they

:11:02. > :11:17.knew they were safe, their families knew they were safe and they weren't

:11:18. > :11:19.lonely. That is really important to older people. It includes

:11:20. > :11:21.homelessness hostels and quite honestly we have enough people

:11:22. > :11:24.sleeping on our streets, that we would not want ever to make it even

:11:25. > :11:26.harder for people to get access to homelessness hostels. It includes

:11:27. > :11:28.specialist provision for people with mental illnesses and learning

:11:29. > :11:30.difficulties. I have seen some of that in my constituency. A young

:11:31. > :11:36.man, 40 years old, quadriplegic cerebral palsy, had to go into

:11:37. > :11:39.provision for respite because his father was diagnosed with incurable

:11:40. > :11:44.cancer. He took the decision himself to remain there. He said, I love my

:11:45. > :11:48.mum and dad, but this is the first time in my life I have been the

:11:49. > :11:54.adult and not the child. I saw what a difference that made to that young

:11:55. > :12:02.man's friendships and to his family, and to his look at life. They

:12:03. > :12:05.provide provision for former members of the Armed Forces. People who have

:12:06. > :12:09.served this country, who have given everything for our security, and

:12:10. > :12:15.that I cannot believe we are even contemplating making it harder for

:12:16. > :12:20.them to access the supported housing some of them now need. Even the

:12:21. > :12:24.thought of such a proposal shames me, and I think it shames this

:12:25. > :12:30.entire house if we were to proceed down that route. It includes

:12:31. > :12:34.specialist provision for refugees and domestic violence victims. I

:12:35. > :12:40.worked in a Local Authority in London. I was head of education. We

:12:41. > :12:46.created a crisis team in primary for dealing with children in crisis. We

:12:47. > :12:51.met every week. We had at least ten cases. 100% of those cases over two

:12:52. > :12:55.years, domestic violence was a feature. I think it is shameful that

:12:56. > :12:59.it is the hidden scourge of this country. We should talk about it

:13:00. > :13:03.more. Very idea we might be making it a little harder for those people

:13:04. > :13:09.to have security and a place of safety, I just think it pays no

:13:10. > :13:13.credit to any of us. All of these people have one thing in common.

:13:14. > :13:18.Life happened to them. They haven't done this. We are all going to get

:13:19. > :13:21.older, we all have older parents, we will need these things in the

:13:22. > :13:25.future. I think there are a number of principles that have come out of

:13:26. > :13:30.today, listening to people on both side of the House. Clearly it is

:13:31. > :13:34.going to be at huge expense to this country, if these provisions become

:13:35. > :13:38.unsustainable. It will cost the health service, legal service,

:13:39. > :13:45.prison service, it will be picked up by the public person and will cost

:13:46. > :13:48.more and will be as good as the provision we have now. I think we

:13:49. > :13:53.can recognise the Minister and needs to look at this quickly, needs to

:13:54. > :13:56.make a decision. We need these provisions to be sustained. We need

:13:57. > :14:01.them to be there for the people who need them, the most probable in our

:14:02. > :14:04.society, and all of us came here to support them. Let's not be part of

:14:05. > :14:11.the problem for these people, let's be part of the solution.

:14:12. > :14:16.I am very grateful for having the opportunity to speak in this

:14:17. > :14:21.important debate. It is a pleasure to follow on from my honourable

:14:22. > :14:29.friend. Can I start by saying how disappointing I am by the wording of

:14:30. > :14:32.this motion. Supported housing is such an important issue, to prejudge

:14:33. > :14:37.the outcome of this review with words which are best inaccurate and

:14:38. > :14:41.worst to scare vulnerable people in our country, is plain wrong. It is

:14:42. > :14:46.wrong to say the Government intends to cut housing benefit for those in

:14:47. > :14:50.specialist housing, when what is happening in reality is a review of

:14:51. > :14:55.supported housing is taking place, and while that review is taking

:14:56. > :14:59.place, supported housing is exempt from housing benefit changes and

:15:00. > :15:03.exempt from rent reduction changes coming in the general needs housing.

:15:04. > :15:07.Members opposite don't have a monopoly of being in support of

:15:08. > :15:12.supported housing. I have seen first-hand the difference, to

:15:13. > :15:16.people's lives. As a member of BHT Sussex I saw teams on the ground

:15:17. > :15:21.that were supporting people going through rehab for both alcohol and

:15:22. > :15:25.drug addiction and supported housing they were provided, not just turned

:15:26. > :15:29.their lives around but gave them independence and their families

:15:30. > :15:33.lives back as well. Having that supported housing, with the input of

:15:34. > :15:38.specialist staff, to get you clean makes such a difference and it is

:15:39. > :15:44.life changing. I have also seen from my times when I was a local council

:15:45. > :15:50.Cabinet member for housing how heavily supported housing with help

:15:51. > :15:54.allows people who are older to live independent lives on a view shared

:15:55. > :15:59.by much proclaimed Housing Federation, but also the homes and

:16:00. > :16:06.communities agency. The HCA has found supported housing provision

:16:07. > :16:10.has a net positive benefit of ?640 million for UK taxpayers, as it

:16:11. > :16:15.reduces hospital admissions, speeds up discharges and improve health

:16:16. > :16:20.outcomes. Supported housing can also transformed the lives of young

:16:21. > :16:23.people. In my constituency the New Haven Fourier is there for people

:16:24. > :16:26.who have probably had the worst start in life you could imagine.

:16:27. > :16:30.These are young people whose families have either of them in care

:16:31. > :16:35.or are no longer around to support them. They live in very challenging

:16:36. > :16:39.times, many have been excluded from school. Being in supported housing

:16:40. > :16:43.means not only do they now have a roof over their heads, but for the

:16:44. > :16:46.first time many of them feel they have some stability. They have

:16:47. > :16:51.someone there who will make sure they get up in the morning and go to

:16:52. > :16:54.college or to work, who teaches them how to cook and maintain a tenancy

:16:55. > :17:00.and helps them budget, so when they leave, they can start off an

:17:01. > :17:03.independent life. Speaking to one of the young people, I went to one of

:17:04. > :17:08.their coffee mornings on a Saturday morning who told me if it wasn't for

:17:09. > :17:11.them, they would actively go out and commit crime, to get into prison, so

:17:12. > :17:18.she could have a roof over her head and a hot meal each day. That is a

:17:19. > :17:22.different supporting hows it -- housing mates. But I do welcome this

:17:23. > :17:29.review. But the fear is real or on real potential housing caps being

:17:30. > :17:33.applied or the application of 1% rate reduction is causing an ease in

:17:34. > :17:41.the sector. If these to happen, it would put doubt to the sector, in

:17:42. > :17:45.terms of building new provision. We cannot afford as a country not to

:17:46. > :17:49.provide that extra support that goes with keeping an elderly person

:17:50. > :17:54.living in sheltered housing, O or a young Kelly leaver or that person

:17:55. > :18:01.going through rehab as a recovering at Grigore drug addict. I'm

:18:02. > :18:05.optimistic we will find a solution. -- or a recovering drug addict. The

:18:06. > :18:10.minister said he saw a positive future for the supported housing

:18:11. > :18:14.where high-quality supported housing is there to provide the right

:18:15. > :18:18.support at the right time. I urge ministers today to ensure not only

:18:19. > :18:22.that funding is secured for supported housing but we reach a

:18:23. > :18:27.timely conclusion when the results of the review are revealed. This has

:18:28. > :18:31.been a wasted opportunity. If this debate had been about supported

:18:32. > :18:35.housing and the options that are available and fed into the review I

:18:36. > :18:39.could have possibly supported it, but it has been an opportunity for

:18:40. > :18:45.scaremongering and for that reason I will be voting against this motion.

:18:46. > :18:50.Thank you. I am pleased to speak in this debate and that it has been

:18:51. > :18:56.selected as a topic by our front bench today. Planned housing cap is

:18:57. > :19:03.a concern for many of our constituencies and I have been

:19:04. > :19:06.contacted by many other half of their tenants. It provides

:19:07. > :19:10.essential, they should the people who need it. It is already more

:19:11. > :19:15.cost-effective than the alternatives of nursing homes, care homes or

:19:16. > :19:18.hospital beds and is far better than people trying to live independently

:19:19. > :19:22.but without the support that makes this possible. The Government's

:19:23. > :19:26.plans will force the closure of tens of thousands of supported homes for

:19:27. > :19:33.vulnerable and older people. In Nottingham there are 3491 supported

:19:34. > :19:38.living bed spaces with 2393 spaces for older people. The chief

:19:39. > :19:44.executive of Nottingham city homes told me, we are worried about some

:19:45. > :19:47.of our older residents who combined rent and service charges takes them

:19:48. > :19:51.above this threshold. The limits take no account of the cost of

:19:52. > :19:55.housing management services we provide to keep our tenants living

:19:56. > :19:59.independently. City homes have estimated tenants will be captain

:20:00. > :20:04.20% of their supported living schemes, totalling 380 properties

:20:05. > :20:10.and the weekly shortfalls will be between 5- ?21 102 of those tenants

:20:11. > :20:15.to be capped are over 80 years old. Madam Deputy Speaker, tell us the

:20:16. > :20:20.drive behind so much of this show shall reform programme is to get

:20:21. > :20:24.people back to work but these are not people who can easily go out and

:20:25. > :20:27.get a job. Providers tell me poverty or rent arrears are more likely

:20:28. > :20:31.outcomes and for some there is a risk they will move into more

:20:32. > :20:35.expensive care homes, which will actually place a greater burden on

:20:36. > :20:40.already overstretched public sector budgets. Sheltered housing for older

:20:41. > :20:44.people isn't just good value for money, it allows people to live

:20:45. > :20:49.independently and with dignity. Demographic projections point in

:20:50. > :20:52.only one direction, but the uncertainty surrounding the future

:20:53. > :20:55.funding of such accommodation is preventing much-needed new

:20:56. > :21:00.developments from going ahead. In May I went to see some of the work

:21:01. > :21:05.Nottingham community Housing Association do for my most

:21:06. > :21:10.honourable constituents. One offers accommodation to those who need

:21:11. > :21:16.accommodation after a psychiatric ward. A unique service that allows

:21:17. > :21:21.people to rebuild their lives in the community and is financially

:21:22. > :21:25.sustainable. Residents pay weekly rent of ?185 a week and support

:21:26. > :21:34.costs vary but on average ?396 per person per week. By comparison,

:21:35. > :21:39.rethink estimate it costs ?350 per day to support someone in a

:21:40. > :21:42.psychiatric inpatient bed. It is not only cost-effective, it gives

:21:43. > :21:45.vulnerable people the opportunity to live in the community with the right

:21:46. > :21:53.support, sometimes for the first time in their lives.

:21:54. > :21:59.Framework are contacted me with their assessment of the proposals.

:22:00. > :22:04.They are committed -- committed to promoting opportunities for

:22:05. > :22:08.vulnerable and excluded people. The Chief Executive told me that it

:22:09. > :22:12.means that most if not all of existing supported housing will

:22:13. > :22:20.cease to be viable from April 2000 18. At a time when rough sleeping is

:22:21. > :22:23.writing -- rising fast, this is very serious. We are contemplating a

:22:24. > :22:27.situation where thousands of people are at risk of homelessness. Some of

:22:28. > :22:31.them have multiple needs and will have nowhere to go. There will also

:22:32. > :22:36.be a negative impact on hospital discharge, prison resettlement,

:22:37. > :22:44.domestic abuse and the transforming care programme. There is a concern

:22:45. > :22:47.we have already lost services because of the demise of the

:22:48. > :22:54.sporting people programme. This is nothing compared to what will happen

:22:55. > :23:01.if these proposals go ahead. 1200 supported housing units currently

:23:02. > :23:05.provided for people in substance related problems across

:23:06. > :23:09.Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire and Derbyshire, less than 150 will

:23:10. > :23:13.remain. This impacts on people with real needs. I heard from a service

:23:14. > :23:19.unit talking about when she was in real crisis and nearly even lost her

:23:20. > :23:26.life. Thanks to framework she has managed to turn her life around. I

:23:27. > :23:30.asked the minister to listen. If she would like to join me and visit any

:23:31. > :23:33.of the excellent services in Nottingham I would be delighted to

:23:34. > :23:37.take her to see the invaluable work that they do. The government must

:23:38. > :23:40.rethink their proposals rather than seeking to target those least able

:23:41. > :23:50.to bear the burden. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As

:23:51. > :23:54.my right honourable friend has pointed out, we should not be having

:23:55. > :24:01.this debate on this subject today. It is only right and proper that

:24:02. > :24:08.this debate is allowed to run its course and that it is done right,

:24:09. > :24:12.even if it does take some time. I know the members opposite do not

:24:13. > :24:18.like this concept but in my opinion it is the best approach for

:24:19. > :24:24.long-term stability in this sector. I do want to make some progress.

:24:25. > :24:32.Madam Deputy Speaker, too often we look at one cost in isolation. But

:24:33. > :24:34.as we can see, we have got to departments working together on this

:24:35. > :24:41.policy, which I think is definitely the way forward. -- two. But we need

:24:42. > :24:46.more joined up policy-making. Yesterday NHS England published an

:24:47. > :24:52.implementation plan for the mental health five-year forward view. The

:24:53. > :24:59.cost, with to the individual, the family, or the carer, the NHS

:25:00. > :25:01.challenges are huge. It is not uncommon for these problems to

:25:02. > :25:08.result in homelessness. And a subsequent need for supported

:25:09. > :25:12.housing to get back contract. A great example of where supported

:25:13. > :25:16.housing works well is in a trust based in my constituency. It is a

:25:17. > :25:20.Christian charity providing safe, secure and healthy supported

:25:21. > :25:26.accommodation for homeless males from the age of 16-54. So often it

:25:27. > :25:32.will give them the fresh start in life they never expected. The trust

:25:33. > :25:37.provides 24-7 support with staff permanently on site. And I have seen

:25:38. > :25:43.for myself how Person centred that support is. There is a tailored

:25:44. > :25:47.approach for each individual. The team makes everybody feel very

:25:48. > :25:51.special. Probably a feeling they have not experienced for a long,

:25:52. > :25:59.long time. Yesterday I chatted to the key man at the charity, Kevin

:26:00. > :26:04.Curtis. His excitement for this project is infectious and he

:26:05. > :26:08.persuaded quite a few of us to sleep out for the charity in February and

:26:09. > :26:11.March, including myself and the leader of the Council and at two

:26:12. > :26:16.o'clock in the morning the pavement seemed to get really hard and cold.

:26:17. > :26:22.Kevin told me about what happens when supported housing is not

:26:23. > :26:27.available. It is a revolving door. Vulnerable people, many of whom have

:26:28. > :26:29.problems with addiction, are housed in substandard accommodation in

:26:30. > :26:35.communities where the temptation of Tring and drugs is around every

:26:36. > :26:40.corner. -- drinking and drugs. Many find themselves back on the streets

:26:41. > :26:44.within a 3-6 months, and all because there is nobody there watching their

:26:45. > :26:50.backs. They provide extra guidance and support to make the difference.

:26:51. > :26:52.We fail as a society if we do not stop these people falling through

:26:53. > :26:56.the net and I would urge the new minister to address this as one of

:26:57. > :27:01.her top priorities moving forward. I will give way to the honourable

:27:02. > :27:09.member. She has a constituency near to mine in Nottinghamshire, the

:27:10. > :27:14.Nottinghamshire- Derbyshire area. And she knows that there is a

:27:15. > :27:17.framework which does a fantastic effort in supported housing and they

:27:18. > :27:20.have put in a real effort to get housing in for people with the most

:27:21. > :27:25.honourable needs and should this not be a cross-party concern for all

:27:26. > :27:28.corners of the House? We must impress upon the Government to

:27:29. > :27:33.change their position and do the right thing. I completely agree with

:27:34. > :27:37.the honourable member. That is why this review is so important. It is

:27:38. > :27:41.reaching out to organisations and finding out what is really needed

:27:42. > :27:46.and what will really work for the future and make it sustainable. That

:27:47. > :27:52.is so important. I think the extra support that organisations and

:27:53. > :27:55.charities like this trust, for their clients, the outcome is a very

:27:56. > :27:59.different story compared to this eight out of ten revolving door. It

:28:00. > :28:04.is two percent of their clients going through that revolving door.

:28:05. > :28:08.It is a big reduction. This evidence, along with other good

:28:09. > :28:12.outcomes, shows how important it is for supported housing to be

:28:13. > :28:20.available for the most vulnerable. We must also accept that is -- it is

:28:21. > :28:24.not just the cost Association. It is also about savings made for the NHS,

:28:25. > :28:29.police and other support agencies as well. Madam Deputy Speaker, as I

:28:30. > :28:35.finish, I would like to remind the members opposite, as my honourable

:28:36. > :28:38.friend form Ms Derbyshire mentioned earlier, that it was this

:28:39. > :28:43.Conservative governance that committed ?40 million in the Autumn

:28:44. > :28:46.Statement for domestic abuse victims, which travels the funding

:28:47. > :28:52.compared to the previous four years. I am proud of that. -- triples. I

:28:53. > :29:01.will give way to the honourable member. Before she reaches the end

:29:02. > :29:05.of her speech, in the early part, she made reference to the fact that

:29:06. > :29:10.the review should run its course. There are domestic violence refugees

:29:11. > :29:13.in my constituency that are very worried they will not be there by

:29:14. > :29:18.the time this review has run its course. Genuinely, what advice would

:29:19. > :29:25.she give them and the desperate women and children that need their

:29:26. > :29:27.help? Thank you for that. This government has already put more

:29:28. > :29:33.money into support for domestic abuse victims and that is so

:29:34. > :29:37.important. Will she also reckon I is the fact that we have got a decision

:29:38. > :29:42.which will be reached in the early autumn? As I said earlier we need to

:29:43. > :29:45.come out with the right decision and the right outcome which is

:29:46. > :29:50.sustainable. There is no point in having a review if it does not get

:29:51. > :29:54.to the bottom of the issue in hand. I am also proud this government has

:29:55. > :29:56.actively supported people with disabilities. We talk about

:29:57. > :30:02.disabilities and people that are very vulnerable. And playing their

:30:03. > :30:06.part in the community. In the last two years alone 306 E 5000 disabled

:30:07. > :30:17.people have moved into employment and I am definitely roundabout. --

:30:18. > :30:22.360 5000. -- proud of that. I never fall apart under any circumstances!

:30:23. > :30:27.I welcome all interventions from people who know more about this than

:30:28. > :30:32.I do. It is no secret what my feelings are about this and the

:30:33. > :30:38.minister I find has stood on many platforms with me. It is a delight

:30:39. > :30:41.to see her in her place. I will talk mainly about accommodation for

:30:42. > :30:47.victims of domestic and sexual violence, but I will also talk about

:30:48. > :30:51.all kinds of supported accommodation. I have spoken in

:30:52. > :30:53.every debate and the primers to every time I have had the

:30:54. > :31:01.opportunity to something about this. -- Prime Minister. So far I am still

:31:02. > :31:09.waiting. However, that I minister is yesterday's man. Now I look at

:31:10. > :31:13.today's woman. -- Prime Minister. The new prime minister in fact

:31:14. > :31:17.agrees with me. In the violence strategy published by the

:31:18. > :31:20.department, she stated, and I quote, we must make sure that all victims

:31:21. > :31:25.get the right support in the right time. Let me be clear today that

:31:26. > :31:30.unless the Government has exempted refugees from local housing

:31:31. > :31:32.allowance caps to housing benefit, victims of domestic violence will

:31:33. > :31:36.have no chance of getting what the Prime Minister describes as right

:31:37. > :31:42.support at the right time. In the same strategy, it is going on about

:31:43. > :31:46.this money and I have heard you sing in the praises of this money today

:31:47. > :31:49.but it is a fraction of the picture. Government money allocated for

:31:50. > :31:52.refugee funding is always short-term. Talking about

:31:53. > :31:56.sustainability, that is never there and never has been and it is never

:31:57. > :32:00.built in. I know because I have helped to write all of these

:32:01. > :32:04.proposals for all of the money that everybody in here is talking about.

:32:05. > :32:07.And in every single bidding process for the refugee services in this

:32:08. > :32:14.country the sustainability plan which was put in place was based on

:32:15. > :32:19.housing benefit. Many refugees rely entirely on housing benefit. I will

:32:20. > :32:25.give way to the honourable member. I thank her for giving way. Is she

:32:26. > :32:27.aware that in Devon and Cornwall the Devon and Cornwall police do an

:32:28. > :32:36.enormous amount of work on refugees and more importantly with the police

:32:37. > :32:42.through operation in compass? If she would like to come to Plymouth I

:32:43. > :32:47.will help her with that. As we enter into the summer recess I would love

:32:48. > :32:51.a little trip to core more! -- Cornwall! Unfortunately police

:32:52. > :32:55.forces across the country are doing quite good work, the police and

:32:56. > :32:58.Crime Commissioner 's other in quite good work. I have never seen an

:32:59. > :33:03.example where they have not supported -- have supported this

:33:04. > :33:08.accommodation, I have disabled stock it would not be good to undermine

:33:09. > :33:10.minister's work signed off by ministers from this government when

:33:11. > :33:16.they allocated the money that they are all happy to stand up and sing

:33:17. > :33:21.the praises about. Every single plan had housing benefit within it. It is

:33:22. > :33:24.difficult for people to understand what running a refuge actually looks

:33:25. > :33:28.like. The grants the Government give are what we used to pay the members

:33:29. > :33:32.of staff. Family support workers, enabling a child to engage with a

:33:33. > :33:36.mother that has lost all control over her children because her

:33:37. > :33:41.perpetrator has taken it from her. They allow staff to give counselling

:33:42. > :33:45.support to women that have been brutalised, raped, beaten and

:33:46. > :33:49.controlled to a degree that nobody in this chamber could ever imagine.

:33:50. > :33:53.That is what the grants paid for. What pays for the nuts and bolts and

:33:54. > :33:57.the beds and the buildings and the place where the people live, their

:33:58. > :34:03.homes, their security, it is housing benefit. I will give way to the

:34:04. > :34:06.honourable member. I am very grateful. She is making an

:34:07. > :34:10.incredibly compelling case. Can I take her back to the letter I

:34:11. > :34:14.received from the housing association I referred to in an

:34:15. > :34:17.intervention from the front bench earlier? They said to me that it is

:34:18. > :34:20.probable the results of this reduction will either the additional

:34:21. > :34:23.costs to the public purse where these individuals take up, for

:34:24. > :34:28.example, valuable and costly hospital space, or they will find

:34:29. > :34:32.themselves living in a totally inappropriate accommodation that

:34:33. > :34:36.does not support their needs and puts them at high risk. Is that not

:34:37. > :34:45.exactly the case we are trying to make today? I thank my honourable

:34:46. > :34:49.friend. That is exactly the case. The reduction has been outlined. It

:34:50. > :34:52.will lead to people being left... Every single MP I am sure will know

:34:53. > :34:58.the unscrupulous housing providers where we do not want people ending

:34:59. > :35:03.up. Housing benefit currently pays for things like CCTV, security,

:35:04. > :35:06.support and all those extra things which we might take the granted

:35:07. > :35:09.because we did not have it in our homes. But we have not been

:35:10. > :35:17.repeatedly raped for the last six months. That is what housing benefit

:35:18. > :35:21.pays for. I cannot say without any more dramatic effect that half of

:35:22. > :35:26.the bed spaces in refugees bases where I worked would not be there

:35:27. > :35:29.without housing benefit. Already, 115 women and their children are

:35:30. > :35:38.turned away from refuges every single day in this country. Already

:35:39. > :35:43.this year 50 women are dead. There are also very real concerns about

:35:44. > :35:49.the housing benefit changes for the 18 - 21 age group. Can we have an

:35:50. > :35:52.update on where we are with that and the bearing it will have on places

:35:53. > :35:56.like Birmingham were 25% of the women living in refuge last year

:35:57. > :36:01.were in that age group? They will be shutting off the route of safety for

:36:02. > :36:05.these women if these changes in housing benefit are coming in. I

:36:06. > :36:09.have to say that I am at a loss as to what is going on and if that is

:36:10. > :36:13.part of the review or if it was floated around. If the DWP do not

:36:14. > :36:16.want to play their part in the Treasury value the bottom line so

:36:17. > :36:20.much, the Government must look at different approaches to funding

:36:21. > :36:24.refuges and supported accommodation. What is happening? It is not about

:36:25. > :36:29.sustainability. It is about cutting cost. The decimation of the local

:36:30. > :36:36.authority support has already closed 30 refuges in the UK. I am not just

:36:37. > :36:38.shouting and scaremongering against the cuts. I'm willing to engage with

:36:39. > :36:45.the ministers across government to talk about actual sustainability

:36:46. > :36:48.models for refuges. Just some suggestions today, we could ring

:36:49. > :36:54.fence national budgets and make regarding accommodation for victims

:36:55. > :36:56.a local statutory duty. At the moment they only have a

:36:57. > :37:00.responsibility for adult services, student services and games. I think

:37:01. > :37:02.children that have been raped my having a safe place to live is more

:37:03. > :37:15.important than rubbish bins. It completely eliminates the need

:37:16. > :37:19.for housing benefit and I have set up refuges for victims of

:37:20. > :37:22.trafficking with this model no housing benefit changes, and could

:37:23. > :37:27.only do this gives the Government in front of me recognised the

:37:28. > :37:30.importance of a national funding framework for so I'm happy to work

:37:31. > :37:36.with the Government on any of these solutions but to pull the rug from

:37:37. > :37:39.under refuges, homeless hostels, older people care services, without

:37:40. > :37:45.first putting in place a system that will work that is sustainable and

:37:46. > :37:49.has an actual future for these victims, is both stupid and crawl.

:37:50. > :37:55.So back to the words of the Prime Minister, what she said was an

:37:56. > :37:59.awareness and a response to violence against women and girls was

:38:00. > :38:05.everyone's business. Will the Minister promised to make it hers?

:38:06. > :38:10.Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. There is a clear need to get the

:38:11. > :38:13.cost of housing benefits under control, but it is also vital that

:38:14. > :38:18.the needs of the most vulnerable are met. These costs have continued to

:38:19. > :38:23.rise, even at times when the number of people receiving the benefits has

:38:24. > :38:29.reduced. Unless the spiralling cost can be controlled, then the system

:38:30. > :38:33.would soon become unviable, limiting our ability to support many of the

:38:34. > :38:37.people who need our help the most. All parts of the housing market that

:38:38. > :38:42.receive public funding must bear a share of the need for efficiency and

:38:43. > :38:48.supported housing is no different in that. We must also recognise that

:38:49. > :38:52.providing supported housing does involve additional costs. Many of

:38:53. > :38:57.those additional costs might in the past have been covered through

:38:58. > :39:00.social services budget, rather than through housing benefits. But if

:39:01. > :39:04.changes to housing benefits are not implemented in the right way, many

:39:05. > :39:08.of the existing supported housing facilities would be seriously

:39:09. > :39:13.threatened. I would like to thank the former housing minister, my

:39:14. > :39:16.honourable friend for Great Yarmouth, for the positive and

:39:17. > :39:21.constructive way he responded to concerns raised by myself and other

:39:22. > :39:24.honourable members. The Government's review of supported housing is a

:39:25. > :39:29.welcome opportunity to review this crucial issue. I welcome this

:39:30. > :39:33.opportunity to again give voice to some of the issues that I hope the

:39:34. > :39:37.review will consider. I would like to talk about one of my

:39:38. > :39:41.constituents, a Black Country housing tenant who has had her life

:39:42. > :39:46.transformed thanks to first class supported housing. DW was diagnosed

:39:47. > :39:52.with a learning disability and schizophrenia at the age of seven.

:39:53. > :39:57.She is also partially sighted due to a cataract in both eyes. At the age

:39:58. > :40:03.of 14 home other died, butt DW continue to live at home until her

:40:04. > :40:08.father died. DW became a hoarder and was suffering from self-neglect. She

:40:09. > :40:14.was very isolated, didn't socialise and became very aggressive. In

:40:15. > :40:17.March, 2013, EW became very ill, was taken to hospital, where she stayed

:40:18. > :40:24.for one month. After a stay at reenable meant centre she moved into

:40:25. > :40:31.a supported living service. Here she was supplied with excellent support,

:40:32. > :40:35.with personal care, social interaction and peer support from

:40:36. > :40:41.other residents, as well as a team as skilled, experienced support

:40:42. > :40:44.workers. Through a working knowledge of DW, her anxieties and needs, the

:40:45. > :40:49.staff worked with health professionals to delivery support

:40:50. > :40:55.plan and see she got appropriate and ongoing treatment for her eyes. She

:40:56. > :40:59.is now much happier. Her mental health has improved dramatically and

:41:00. > :41:04.she is able to get involved in her community. She maintains her home

:41:05. > :41:08.and tenancy for stops she undertakes household duties in the home and is

:41:09. > :41:12.no longer at risk of self-neglect or homelessness. As a result of

:41:13. > :41:18.supported housing, DW has become much more independent, aware and

:41:19. > :41:22.involved. Her case is only one of a number that I could have picked, but

:41:23. > :41:27.it clearly illustrates all of the work and the additional costs that

:41:28. > :41:30.come with providing this level of care, and this must be recognised

:41:31. > :41:36.through the social care and welfare systems. Whether the higher costs

:41:37. > :41:40.intrinsic to supported housing continue to be funded from the

:41:41. > :41:45.housing budget or whether the costs are funded through social services

:41:46. > :41:51.really doesn't matter. What matters is those costs are very real, very

:41:52. > :41:54.necessary and must be met. I wholeheartedly support the review of

:41:55. > :42:00.supported housing and the commitment to occur permanent solution for

:42:01. > :42:04.supported housing. We must continue to do what we can to reduce the

:42:05. > :42:10.spiralling costs of housing and if it builds, but we must make sure

:42:11. > :42:16.that the vital services provided to vulnerable people like DW in my

:42:17. > :42:17.constituency can continue, and that means we must find a way to pay for

:42:18. > :42:28.it. I am so pleased that right across

:42:29. > :42:37.the House there is a consensus of the importance of supported housing

:42:38. > :42:41.to people in all their communities. From that point I think we should

:42:42. > :42:47.start with a sign of appreciation for the hard work and dedication of

:42:48. > :42:53.staff, both in charities and in housing associations. We need to

:42:54. > :42:59.give them the respect they deserve. It's a very difficult job, dealing

:43:00. > :43:08.with people with many challenges, and it's done in such a positive

:43:09. > :43:14.way. There's been a cloud over supported housing funding for quite

:43:15. > :43:19.some time. Which ranking budgets and uncertainty in the welfare policy

:43:20. > :43:24.these problems have come to a head with the Government's propose local

:43:25. > :43:28.housing allowance cap. -- shrinking budgets. Although the Government has

:43:29. > :43:33.already had the good sense to delay the implementation for supported

:43:34. > :43:39.housing, we know housing associations have already had to

:43:40. > :43:45.factor in the proposed changes that are set to be introduced in 2018.

:43:46. > :43:52.According to the respected national housing association this means a

:43:53. > :43:58.staggering 41% of existing supported housing, sheltered accommodation

:43:59. > :44:03.places will be shut. Where will these people go? Madam Deputy

:44:04. > :44:10.Speaker, I was recently invited to visit Branwell house, a shelter for

:44:11. > :44:14.the homeless in Blackburn, managed by the Salvation Army, a

:44:15. > :44:21.well-respected organisation. It helps support homeless people by

:44:22. > :44:29.providing accommodation and support for those who need it most. A member

:44:30. > :44:39.opposite who has now left his place spoke of scaremongering. I tell this

:44:40. > :44:41.house, the Salvation Army are not scaremongering, they are scared.

:44:42. > :44:46.They are scared they are no longer able to provide the provision we

:44:47. > :44:49.know is desperately beaded. Branwell house gives people who would

:44:50. > :44:55.otherwise be sleeping rough a safe and warm place to stay. The services

:44:56. > :44:59.Branwell house offers give some of the most honourable in Blackburn a

:45:00. > :45:06.life chance and opportunity to change their outlook for the better.

:45:07. > :45:10.The main group of people who look at Branwell house for support are

:45:11. > :45:16.single, homeless and with support needs. Over the last 12 months 413

:45:17. > :45:22.residents have been supported. 83% of residents have moved into other

:45:23. > :45:25.more suitable accommodation, a truly exceptional records. However, the

:45:26. > :45:32.benefits are so much wider than simply a place to stay. Branwell

:45:33. > :45:36.house helps to reduce sleeping, involved in crime, reliance on the

:45:37. > :45:40.health system and demands on social services in our communities. I think

:45:41. > :45:46.it is regrettable that places like Branwell house could find themselves

:45:47. > :45:52.in peril because of Tory housing policies. Some ask why supported

:45:53. > :46:02.housing should be exempt from the cap. In my opinion because it

:46:03. > :46:05.provides the shelter, 24-7 staff, real support to deal with the

:46:06. > :46:10.challenges facing those vulnerable people, something I hope no one in

:46:11. > :46:15.this house will ever face. It's absolutely essential that the

:46:16. > :46:18.Government does all it can to secure the future of Branwell house and

:46:19. > :46:25.other similar projects. Homeless peoples futures should not be

:46:26. > :46:30.dependent on a DWP cutting bills on all costs. I hope, Madam Deputy

:46:31. > :46:37.Speaker, that the new Secretary of State will look at this with fresh

:46:38. > :46:46.eyes and support the PM's statement that this Tory government is in

:46:47. > :46:50.possession of a social conscience. I look forward to fairness and the

:46:51. > :46:54.Secretary of State introducing a long-term funding package, so

:46:55. > :47:01.supported housing schemes and existing ones month-to-month,

:47:02. > :47:05.year-to-year. If the Government take steps to support supported housing,

:47:06. > :47:12.the providers can focus on the great work of providing the vulnerable

:47:13. > :47:14.with a safe place to speak, helping them live independently and giving

:47:15. > :47:21.homeless people a chance for turning their lives around for the better.

:47:22. > :47:27.Supported housing provides a hugely valuable service to many of our most

:47:28. > :47:32.vulnerable citizens, elderly people in need of care, vulnerable young

:47:33. > :47:36.people who need support and supervision, those fleeing domestic

:47:37. > :47:39.abuse or recovering from addiction and more besides. The different

:47:40. > :47:46.types of supported accommodation are as varied as those who need them,

:47:47. > :47:49.hostels and refuges, to more specialised residential units, built

:47:50. > :47:53.around the specific needs of their residents. What they have in common

:47:54. > :47:59.is they provide people not only with a safe place to live, but a platform

:48:00. > :48:01.from which to embark on a more empowered, independent life than

:48:02. > :48:07.their seven stances might otherwise allow. I reiterate these points in

:48:08. > :48:10.order to make it absolutely clear that the Government's approach to

:48:11. > :48:16.supported housing sector is rooted in a deep appreciation for the help

:48:17. > :48:19.it provides to the vulnerable and understanding the talent is it

:48:20. > :48:26.faces. Recently in my constituency of Solly holds, -- Solihull, some

:48:27. > :48:31.told me that their members were worried by the uncertainty created

:48:32. > :48:35.by the one-year delay in the implementation of some of the

:48:36. > :48:39.coalition 's planned reforms to funding. I do note today there are

:48:40. > :48:46.no liberal Democrats in the chamber to take part in this debate. But the

:48:47. > :48:50.entire reason for the delay in implementing the proposals outlined

:48:51. > :48:55.in the coalition paper is to allow proper time to examine the concerns

:48:56. > :48:59.expressed by other parts of the sector about their impact. It would

:49:00. > :49:03.be wrong to proceed without paying careful attention to those on the

:49:04. > :49:07.front line. The Government must weigh the arguments of any lobby

:49:08. > :49:14.against the wider needs of the nation and the public purse, nor can

:49:15. > :49:18.we abandon the reform effort. I feel that the wisest course of action was

:49:19. > :49:23.the delayed to the changes, while the sector's concerns are explored

:49:24. > :49:27.and examined in detail. I am very pleased today to hear from the

:49:28. > :49:31.Secretary of State the commitment to reach a final decision on this

:49:32. > :49:37.matter in the early autumn. I would like to let Solihull carers know of

:49:38. > :49:41.that timeline on my return. Consultations like these are what

:49:42. > :49:47.makes reform so daunting. Sticking with a status quo is always

:49:48. > :49:51.tempting. Too often it is easy to patch and mend, avoid the hassle,

:49:52. > :49:55.and pass the problem onto the next generation of politicians. I am

:49:56. > :49:59.proud to be part of a reforming government which has led to a

:50:00. > :50:05.decisive break in the arc passing of the past. We recognise that not only

:50:06. > :50:07.by adapting to changing circumstances do we make sure these

:50:08. > :50:13.important institutions are maintained for the future. Bringing

:50:14. > :50:19.down the welfare Bill is essential. If we are not to pass on an

:50:20. > :50:22.unsustainable debt to our children. Let us not forget, it was under

:50:23. > :50:25.Labour that housing benefit ballooned into one of the largest

:50:26. > :50:29.and fastest-growing parts of our welfare system. It is quite

:50:30. > :50:36.staggering that at the start of this year the annual cost was some ?25

:50:37. > :50:41.billion, more than we spend on roads, the police and equipping the

:50:42. > :50:46.military put together. ?25 billion. That is around 8p on income tax. How

:50:47. > :50:51.reforms recognise that the old system had become overly complicated

:50:52. > :50:56.to administer and contained blindspots, created by the way it

:50:57. > :50:57.classified, for example, landlords. It would become increasingly

:50:58. > :51:02.incompatible with the changing landscape of welfare revision as

:51:03. > :51:06.other reforms such as universal credit and individual budgets came

:51:07. > :51:09.into force. I am confident, particular we today listening to the

:51:10. > :51:13.Secretary of State, that the end of this review, we will move forward

:51:14. > :51:18.with proposals that will provide security to tenants, certainty to

:51:19. > :51:24.providers and value for money for taxpayers to stop and frankly, a

:51:25. > :51:30.sense of fairness to renters in the supported housing sector.

:51:31. > :51:35.It's a pleasure to follow the honourable member for Solihull. He

:51:36. > :51:40.claims the Government approach is rooted in a deep appreciation of the

:51:41. > :51:43.help supported housing gives to many of the most vulnerable. That was not

:51:44. > :51:48.characteristic of the decision taken by the Chancellor in November. We

:51:49. > :51:52.look forward to it being characteristic of the decisions

:51:53. > :51:58.taken maybe by the new Secretary of State and Chancellor this autumn. I

:51:59. > :52:01.applaud the members for Islington and Oldham East and Saddleworth for

:52:02. > :52:07.joining forces in this debate as I did with my honourable friend, the

:52:08. > :52:12.member for Pontypridd in January, to press a similar debate on a similar

:52:13. > :52:15.motion on similar terms to try and defend supported housing from some

:52:16. > :52:21.very crude cuts which would jeopardise its future. These were

:52:22. > :52:26.announced by the Chancellor, the then Chancellor, last November in

:52:27. > :52:31.the Autumn Statement. I say to the front bench opposite, they keep on

:52:32. > :52:36.saying we do not want to rush this decision. But that was the decision

:52:37. > :52:41.taken. That was the decision that was wrong. That was the decision

:52:42. > :52:46.taken without consultation, without evidence, no assessment of the

:52:47. > :52:50.impact and no warning. The previous Chancellor said in the Autumn

:52:51. > :52:54.Statement, housing benefit in the social sector would be capped at the

:52:55. > :52:59.relevant local housing allowance. And with one short, sweeping

:53:00. > :53:06.sentence, he put at risk almost all specialist housing for the frail and

:53:07. > :53:11.elderly, homeless, young children, people needing care, people with

:53:12. > :53:15.dementia, mental illness, learning disability, those fleeing domestic

:53:16. > :53:22.violence and some of the veterans as well. The Secretary of State's

:53:23. > :53:25.predecessor either did not spot this, or did not stop this but

:53:26. > :53:32.either way the Chancellor completely ignored him last year. One of the

:53:33. > :53:35.tests for this new Secretary of State will be whether he can get the

:53:36. > :53:40.Chancellor to reverse that and make a different decision. My purpose in

:53:41. > :53:44.exposing public with the problems with this housing benefit cut in

:53:45. > :53:50.December, calling the debate in this House in January, visiting many of

:53:51. > :53:56.the most vulnerable schemes at risk across the country and making a

:53:57. > :54:01.budget submission to the Chancellor in March remains as it was then, to

:54:02. > :54:06.give the voices to the hundreds of thousands of very vulnerable people,

:54:07. > :54:10.whose homes are put at risk by the decision taken in the Autumn

:54:11. > :54:14.Statement. And to give voice also to the warnings and evidence of those

:54:15. > :54:20.organisations which have the facts and will have to deal with the

:54:21. > :54:30.consequences. Those providers that the public respects and trusts, like

:54:31. > :54:37.women's aid, many, and age UK and the Salvation Army. Our purpose is

:54:38. > :54:40.also to press the case for a full exemption of all supported and

:54:41. > :54:48.sheltered housing from this crude across-the-board cut. The words and

:54:49. > :54:51.tone of the Secretary of State was welcomed today. But the test will

:54:52. > :54:57.be, can he deliver a change of decision by the autumn? He said

:54:58. > :54:59.these are important, sensitive and very difficult issues. He said he

:55:00. > :55:05.was prepared to listen carefully to the sector and we welcome that. He

:55:06. > :55:08.acknowledged this sector does transform lives. And certainly in

:55:09. > :55:15.Rotherham target housing does just that. With people coming out of the

:55:16. > :55:20.prison and penal system. The housing does just that with the very

:55:21. > :55:23.vulnerable young people, often needing somewhere safe as well as a

:55:24. > :55:30.roof over their head, had a chance to be able to live independently.

:55:31. > :55:33.Those two organisations look after more than 100 vulnerable people and

:55:34. > :55:37.say they will be losing out by ?8,000 per week and will have to

:55:38. > :55:42.close their doors, close of those schemes with nowhere else for those

:55:43. > :55:47.people to go. I say to the Secretary of State the review in the early

:55:48. > :55:53.autumn is fine all stop but that was started --. But that was started in

:55:54. > :55:57.2014. We were told it would report by the end of March and did not. It

:55:58. > :56:02.was nine months to late back then and by early autumn it will be 12

:56:03. > :56:07.months from the decision already taken and the test now is can the

:56:08. > :56:11.Secretary of State produce this review in time for the next Autumn

:56:12. > :56:15.Statement, because he missed the last one? The real test will not be

:56:16. > :56:20.if he can publish the evidence review, but if he can get the change

:56:21. > :56:23.of position that hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people in

:56:24. > :56:31.this country desperately wants to hear from this government. Thank

:56:32. > :56:34.you, Madam debit is bigger. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable

:56:35. > :56:39.member from Wentworth. He has much experience in these matters. It is

:56:40. > :56:42.quite clear from all of the remarks made this afternoon that we all

:56:43. > :56:47.support supported housing in this House. It is one of the most

:56:48. > :56:53.inspirational parts of our job. I have spoken to organisations such as

:56:54. > :56:59.rather, YMCA, the North Yorkshire County Council facilities and

:57:00. > :57:05.facilities in York which are helping of honourable people to get back on

:57:06. > :57:11.their feet. It is very interesting that in the Ryedale YMCA, about ?83

:57:12. > :57:18.per week is allocated for accommodation for those young people

:57:19. > :57:26.that they support. But ?111 in cost for their support. When this housing

:57:27. > :57:29.allowance did apply, that facility, like many others, would have to

:57:30. > :57:34.close down. I know the Government has accepted this position. In the

:57:35. > :57:40.many letters I have written they understand the need. But I support

:57:41. > :57:46.the policy review into this area. Housing benefit in the social sector

:57:47. > :57:51.has reached ?13.2 billion. A 25% rise in the last ten years. It is

:57:52. > :57:57.right to review spending and make sure taxpayers money spent wisely.

:57:58. > :58:00.But also we should look for sustainable solutions in a way in

:58:01. > :58:07.which we must protect the most of honourable. I do accept parts of the

:58:08. > :58:11.motion. The fact that, yes, the supported housing should be exempt

:58:12. > :58:17.from the on the housing allowance. But I do not accept that the

:58:18. > :58:22.Government intends to cut housing benefit for vulnerable people. That

:58:23. > :58:27.is clearly not the case. This is subject to a review. And I would

:58:28. > :58:38.absolutely assert that members opposite, they are causing distress

:58:39. > :58:42.to their own constituents. I'm grateful to him for giving way, but

:58:43. > :58:44.we do know this. If he looks at the budget red book, he will see, from

:58:45. > :58:50.the Chancellor, savings for three years from 2018-19 on this measure

:58:51. > :58:56.on housing benefit from ?990 million. We know it. That is a

:58:57. > :59:00.problem, that is the decision and that is what needs to be reversed.

:59:01. > :59:05.Does he accept the number of times that it has been said by ministers

:59:06. > :59:08.that this is subject to a policy review, which is out in the autumn?

:59:09. > :59:16.Say it is going to happen is absolutely wrong. I do accept the

:59:17. > :59:21.uncertainty that is being caused by this policy decision. I do think we

:59:22. > :59:26.should think about the policy before we announce it and I accept that

:59:27. > :59:29.point. This does this incentivise investment. I think the federation

:59:30. > :59:36.had said that there are 1200 new units on hold because of this

:59:37. > :59:39.policy, potential policy. I do accept that. It is vital we deliver

:59:40. > :59:44.these units as part of the overall need to build homes. Of course, we

:59:45. > :59:51.are building many more homes. Double the figures from 2009, virtually.

:59:52. > :00:03.100 city 6000 against 90,000 in 2009. We need to get to 260,000. --

:00:04. > :00:09.160,000 against 90,000. We need to build more affordable rented homes.

:00:10. > :00:15.The last time we built 250,000 was in 1977. Local authorities built 100

:00:16. > :00:21.and 8000. We absolutely feel that affordable homes must be part of the

:00:22. > :00:24.solution going forward. Does he not recognise that when it comes to

:00:25. > :00:29.building a social housing, the party opposite no nothing and cannot

:00:30. > :00:37.lecture our spine that respect and up to 30 news are governed, they

:00:38. > :00:41.have created no social housing. I would like to move on because other

:00:42. > :00:47.people want to speak. One other point, which is just about the

:00:48. > :00:53.disincentive there seems to be the young people that are in some of

:00:54. > :00:59.these facilities who do a fantastic job that I met recently had a visit

:01:00. > :01:02.in York. Two young men in their 20s, one was a brekkie and one was a

:01:03. > :01:06.joiner and well capable of working but totally deterred because they

:01:07. > :01:11.felt if they went into work they would have to pay the full cost of

:01:12. > :01:19.that accommodation, ?250 per week. That might not be quite true, we

:01:20. > :01:23.tried to clarify this point, it is not particularly clear, the chair of

:01:24. > :01:30.the select committee is not clear on this point. From my experience,

:01:31. > :01:34.thank you, that is one of the problems with the current system of

:01:35. > :01:37.housing benefit. It is much harder for people in implement, for

:01:38. > :01:43.example, to sustain in the supported accommodation. They do not qualify

:01:44. > :01:47.the housing benefit. At a higher rate. That is absolutely something

:01:48. > :01:51.which needs to be sorted out in any system. I'm not saying it is

:01:52. > :01:57.perfect. But that is definitely one of the problems. I'm very glad we

:01:58. > :02:01.agree on that point. The other impression that I got speaking to

:02:02. > :02:05.these people is we do not seem to be under any urgency for them to get

:02:06. > :02:08.back into work. It is whether we are providing the right incentives for

:02:09. > :02:13.these young people to get into work when they are perfectly capable of

:02:14. > :02:17.working. So, in conclusion, I do accept some of the points in the

:02:18. > :02:23.motion, but not all of them, and for that reason and I will be voting

:02:24. > :02:27.against it in the lobbies. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable

:02:28. > :02:30.member for Thirsk and Malton, with whom I served on the select

:02:31. > :02:34.committee. My constituency benefits from a wide and diverse range of

:02:35. > :02:38.supported housing schemes and they play a fundamental and valuable role

:02:39. > :02:42.in enabling people that would not otherwise be able to do so, to live

:02:43. > :02:44.independently. Whether for a period of time after a particular trauma

:02:45. > :02:49.like domestic abuse, or the long-term. Supported housing can

:02:50. > :02:53.give people dignity and community. It can contribute to the kind of

:02:54. > :02:59.society that we want to be. It advances equality and says the state

:03:00. > :03:06.money. Among excellent supported housing in my constituency, we have

:03:07. > :03:10.a number of refugees. We have housing for blind and partially

:03:11. > :03:12.sighted people and a centrepoint who are very concerned about the

:03:13. > :03:16.withdrawal of housing benefit from 18-21 -year-olds at the moment. We

:03:17. > :03:20.have a community supporting homeless people back into work and into

:03:21. > :03:24.permanent accommodation and housing for residents with learning

:03:25. > :03:31.disabilities and extra care homes for elderly residents, the need for

:03:32. > :03:37.which is growing exponentially and many other examples. Each of the

:03:38. > :03:40.providers of supported housing in my constituency has been thrown into

:03:41. > :03:43.turmoil by the proposal to limit the housing benefit to the level of

:03:44. > :03:47.local housing allowance. I met earlier this year with a number of

:03:48. > :03:50.associations and coral and Terry sector organisations who provide

:03:51. > :03:55.supported housing in my constituency and without exception they were

:03:56. > :04:00.concerned. -- voluntary sector organisations. They would provide

:04:01. > :04:05.less supported housing if the introduction is made. Some will seek

:04:06. > :04:08.to dispose of existing housing schemes. Several said the supported

:04:09. > :04:13.housing was already subsidised in other parts of the business. Others,

:04:14. > :04:16.they said at the moment it covers cost but finances are already very

:04:17. > :04:20.precarious. The announcement of the review is to be welcomed. But since

:04:21. > :04:24.it was announced, lack of further clarity and the delay in making a

:04:25. > :04:31.decision has also caused its own problems. One organisation running

:04:32. > :04:34.housing for the homeless told me that they are postponing investment

:04:35. > :04:40.decisions and they are not sure about whether to continue with some

:04:41. > :04:43.of the schemes that they run, like -- such as the uncertainty caused by

:04:44. > :04:47.the review. These are homes people rely upon now and the future is in

:04:48. > :04:50.jeopardy and it underlines the urgency of the situation. The

:04:51. > :04:56.challenge presented by the introduction of the limit is further

:04:57. > :04:59.compounded I other changes the Government is introducing. In

:05:00. > :05:04.National Living Wage, while it is to be welcomed, is not supported by any

:05:05. > :05:07.increase in funding providers that will have to give them at it and it

:05:08. > :05:14.is squeezing their finance. Cuts to local authority funding reducing the

:05:15. > :05:19.extent to which bought services are operating, placing more pressure on

:05:20. > :05:24.the supported housing. And the impact of the Housing and planning

:05:25. > :05:26.act, not least for starter home obligations for local authorities,

:05:27. > :05:32.will reduce the extent to which providers across the sector are able

:05:33. > :05:35.to provide affordable supported housing in the future. And now we

:05:36. > :05:40.have Brexit, further uncertainty for construction, a threat to the

:05:41. > :05:44.ability of housing associations to borrow from the European investment

:05:45. > :05:47.bank and other sources at preferential rates which further

:05:48. > :05:53.damages the ability of the sector to deliver supported housing. At a

:05:54. > :05:59.select committee meeting some weeks ago I believe the Minister stuck on

:06:00. > :06:02.a plane for the meeting but in questions for the committee I asked

:06:03. > :06:09.about the timescale for announcing the output of the review on this and

:06:10. > :06:13.it was said it would be before recess. Can the Minister please

:06:14. > :06:17.explain why this commitment is not being met and why we are heading

:06:18. > :06:20.into recess with further uncertainty and turmoil for the supported

:06:21. > :06:24.housing sector? The government is treating a sector which makes

:06:25. > :06:27.nothing but a positive contributor and to supporting some of the most

:06:28. > :06:32.bundle residence with content with this timescale for this review. I

:06:33. > :06:37.hope the Minister will confirm in summing up as soon as possible the

:06:38. > :06:39.timescale for a decision on the review and will confirm that this

:06:40. > :06:44.will not be implemented as planned and set out an approach to

:06:45. > :06:48.supporting investment in supported housing to enable a strong sector to

:06:49. > :06:49.beat current and future needs for some of the most vulnerable

:06:50. > :07:02.residents. -- to meet. Over the last few days I have been

:07:03. > :07:09.pondering whether government reshuffles are an opportunity. The

:07:10. > :07:13.topic of this debate offers a huge opportunity to new secretary of

:07:14. > :07:16.state and his team. I knew of this government shares my appreciation of

:07:17. > :07:23.the role provided by supportive housing. I also know they are aware

:07:24. > :07:29.that caps housing benefit could prevent its provision. A conclusion

:07:30. > :07:33.must be reached urgently. When government is checking how taxpayers

:07:34. > :07:37.money is spent, they must also consider the impact of change on

:07:38. > :07:39.those potentially affected. I believe the British people trust

:07:40. > :07:46.this government to be financially prudent but also want to see them --

:07:47. > :07:49.the most vulnerable people in our society protected. In my

:07:50. > :07:53.constituency I have supportive housing schemes looking after the

:07:54. > :07:59.elderly. I visited one of these providers recently. I have rarely

:08:00. > :08:02.seen such high standards of care. Supported Housing at its most

:08:03. > :08:07.dignified. Medical care and attention provided in a careful and

:08:08. > :08:16.four died setting, services I am proud to represent. They know what

:08:17. > :08:19.they are doing. They provide housing for vulnerable teenagers and people

:08:20. > :08:23.with learning difficulties. They are not in this to make for

:08:24. > :08:27.shareholders. They are fulfilling the needs in my constituency that

:08:28. > :08:32.keep me awake at night. While the government undertakes its review of

:08:33. > :08:37.this sector and no definitive or turning funding proposals have been

:08:38. > :08:41.outlined, the system is in a state of paralysis. The cab on housing

:08:42. > :08:49.benefit would mean the loss of ?537,000 to CHS alone. -- capital.

:08:50. > :08:52.In this vacuum of uncertainty, the sector which badly needs to grow to

:08:53. > :08:57.fill the demand we all know exists, stalls. Schemes are not brought

:08:58. > :09:04.forward, investment schemes are shelved. The vulnerable suffer.

:09:05. > :09:10.Delaney in fermentation of the housing benefit cap on this sector

:09:11. > :09:14.is welcome but excessive delays in outlining the new model is damaging.

:09:15. > :09:18.Given that the sector is expecting to hear in mid-July, I urge the

:09:19. > :09:23.secretary of State to tell us when in early autumn we will have a

:09:24. > :09:26.decision. If the review can also identify areas of abuse in the

:09:27. > :09:29.system, that is welcome but that should be dealt with separately. The

:09:30. > :09:33.rest of the sector has a job to do and their plans must not be

:09:34. > :09:37.jeopardised because of the behaviours of a few. I cannot

:09:38. > :09:43.support the motion as it is worded because the -- it asks the

:09:44. > :09:46.government to... I share sympathies for that view. I am pleased we are

:09:47. > :09:51.having this debate. It is because it seems obvious to me that the

:09:52. > :09:55.government is seeking to find a new model to ensure this sector is well

:09:56. > :10:01.funded for the future, and that may well indeed be better, but we must

:10:02. > :10:04.hear it soon. Damage is done to this government's reputation when we

:10:05. > :10:12.propose cuts without simultaneously communicating an alternative. Cuts

:10:13. > :10:19.to ASA rag are a prime example. That was a mistake but it is not too late

:10:20. > :10:24.to fix. Whether it is a white or green paper, or these proposals come

:10:25. > :10:29.we must focus the minds of ministers on communication and precise

:10:30. > :10:35.deadlines for decisions are so important. So I urge the secretary

:10:36. > :10:43.of state to join me in seeing this as an urgent opportunity not a

:10:44. > :10:49.damaging frustration. Just seven days ago, the new Prime Minister

:10:50. > :10:55.spoke about social justice. Yet here we are yet again on this side of the

:10:56. > :10:58.House having to speak out yet again about another unjust policy proposal

:10:59. > :11:02.from this government. Cutting housing benefit for the most

:11:03. > :11:09.vulnerable in our society. This will result in closure of thousands in

:11:10. > :11:14.supported accommodation. This is people's homes and safety. I

:11:15. > :11:17.remember when I was a local councillor and two elderly sheltered

:11:18. > :11:23.accommodation complexes were earmarked for closure. For a year I

:11:24. > :11:28.tried to save them. I will never forget the worry and fear etched on

:11:29. > :11:32.the faces of the elderly and the concerns they had. Where would they

:11:33. > :11:38.live? Who would they have for company? That was all they could

:11:39. > :11:41.think of. A UK are reporting that 300,000 elderly people are suffering

:11:42. > :11:46.from chronic loneliness, which leads to early death. The social angle

:11:47. > :11:51.this accommodation provides beyond vital. I remember the sheer joy and

:11:52. > :11:56.relief when we managed to stop these shelters from closing. Now today,

:11:57. > :12:03.I'm mindful that we are not just talking about a few shelters' that

:12:04. > :12:08.is, if not potentially thousands. I would like the minister to tell us

:12:09. > :12:12.where these people would move to lift their shelter shots. Many in

:12:13. > :12:14.constituencies like mine will not be able to afford private

:12:15. > :12:19.accommodation. Many will have no family to go to. Thanks to this

:12:20. > :12:22.government, there is a massive shortage of council housing, forcing

:12:23. > :12:26.them into residential or care homes, or a health service which is not fit

:12:27. > :12:30.for their needs or appropriate for them particularly in the long-term.

:12:31. > :12:37.This to me leaves only one option. Homelessness. Yet this policy will

:12:38. > :12:40.see the closure of homeless hostels as well, which can only mean more

:12:41. > :12:45.other choice. To go onto the streets. Surely this government can

:12:46. > :12:50.say that if they push ahead with this change, there are no charities

:12:51. > :12:54.and no services that will be able -- they will be able to push this

:12:55. > :12:59.problem onto. Cutting this money is cutting those very services. Madame

:13:00. > :13:04.Deputy Speaker, earlier this year I had the huge privilege to spend time

:13:05. > :13:09.with Terry Waite CBE. Many may not know this but this towering, kind,

:13:10. > :13:22.humble man, known for his horrific captivity in Lebanon, is president

:13:23. > :13:25.of MAS UK. They provide homes for people who have experienced

:13:26. > :13:30.homelessness. They are due to open a site in my constituency in South

:13:31. > :13:34.Shields. They provide a tried and tested lasting route out of

:13:35. > :13:40.homelessness, but they also generate ?6 million per year in savings to

:13:41. > :13:43.the state. Through reductions in offending and improved use of health

:13:44. > :13:47.services. They have told me nationally that if housing benefit

:13:48. > :13:52.for supported accommodation is capped, they would lose over ?3

:13:53. > :14:00.million per year. Threatening most of their communities with closure. I

:14:01. > :14:07.have visited one of their communities. They do great work for

:14:08. > :14:11.every ?1 fee stayed put in, they produce a social return of ?11.

:14:12. > :14:17.Would she agree with me that it is vital the new system we come up with

:14:18. > :14:24.actually acts as a catalyst for that kind of inward investment? Thank

:14:25. > :14:29.you, Madam Deputy Speaker. What I think is vital is that this proposal

:14:30. > :14:32.is scrapped so that the community and my constituency can be built and

:14:33. > :14:36.all the other people living in those communities are not faced with being

:14:37. > :14:41.pushed back onto the street because their community has closed down.

:14:42. > :14:45.Those who have experienced the horror and degradation of being

:14:46. > :14:48.homeless man --, sand on the streets previously could find themselves

:14:49. > :14:54.back there if this policy goes through. It is poor economics and it

:14:55. > :14:57.is beyond contemptible. I am completely aghast as to Hawaii and a

:14:58. > :15:05.government would want to introduce a policy that would see our elderly,

:15:06. > :15:08.are carers, our veterans, victims of domestic violence, on the streets,

:15:09. > :15:12.and keep those already homeless there as well. If this policy is

:15:13. > :15:17.introduced, people will be destitute. We heard earlier that the

:15:18. > :15:22.secretary of state said, despite people being in ensuring limbo, it

:15:23. > :15:27.will be autumn until we have an announcement. I am hopeful that this

:15:28. > :15:31.means this government is slowly and eventually beginning to understand

:15:32. > :15:35.that aggressive policies like this one, punitive benefit sanctions and

:15:36. > :15:39.the bedroom tax before it, only create more problems for our society

:15:40. > :15:48.and will cost government more in the long run.

:15:49. > :15:51.The government's present proposals to cut housing benefit at local

:15:52. > :15:56.housing allowance levels would severely damaged damn -- damaged

:15:57. > :16:02.supported housing across the country, particularly my

:16:03. > :16:05.constituency. There are 605 units of supported housing for vulnerable

:16:06. > :16:09.people suffering from mental ill health, learning disabilities,

:16:10. > :16:18.victims of abuse and addiction. There are also 2070 units of housing

:16:19. > :16:21.for elderly people. These numbers are set to become higher. Another

:16:22. > :16:32.500 units were planned to be built and were stopped. One of the members

:16:33. > :16:37.contacted them to see what help could be given to prevent them from

:16:38. > :16:42.being stopped. The number is high yet behind every one of these

:16:43. > :16:46.numbers is a person or a family come an individual story. I recently had

:16:47. > :16:53.the pleasure of visiting two supported housing schemes in Saint

:16:54. > :16:57.Helens. The first, provided by the Salvation Army. Accommodation

:16:58. > :17:03.provided for 48 single homeless men. Veterans. Some of served time in

:17:04. > :17:06.prison. Suffering from addictions. Some ended up the streets after

:17:07. > :17:11.family breakdown. As well as being given a place to stay, residents are

:17:12. > :17:15.offered support and advice in a range of areas to help them to break

:17:16. > :17:20.the cycle of homelessness. This includes advice about housing

:17:21. > :17:25.benefit. Benefits, education, life skills, work experience. And

:17:26. > :17:31.accessing other agencies, including rehabilitation services, including

:17:32. > :17:36.making a home, helping to build a harm themselves. In other words,

:17:37. > :17:42.these men are helped to get their lives back on track. And resume

:17:43. > :17:53.their place as full and functioning members of society. It gives people

:17:54. > :17:56.the power to take control of their own lives and make the changes they

:17:57. > :18:01.need to get back on track, keeping them back -- on the street -- of the

:18:02. > :18:14.stricken away from crime. This project will cease if this benefit

:18:15. > :18:22.is stopped. The cost of transfer... They do need support. 97 elderly

:18:23. > :18:29.people live in another residential place. 33 of them are supported by

:18:30. > :18:36.care quality commission Negi space. The residents we met were mostly

:18:37. > :18:44.elderly people. -- space. As much as the elderly population is set to

:18:45. > :18:47.rise by 14.5% by 2020. We did a survey of elderly people asking them

:18:48. > :18:51.what they wanted some years ago. They said they did not want to go

:18:52. > :18:54.into residential accommodation, they wanted to stay at home but they

:18:55. > :19:01.couldn't because they did not have the support. We set out to be built

:19:02. > :19:04.villages, extra care housing, sheltered and supported, and every

:19:05. > :19:15.of them is now set to cease if this ahead. ?4.96 million per year will

:19:16. > :19:22.be scrapped and will not go to Saint Helens if this goes ahead. We need

:19:23. > :19:26.to keep them in their own independent homes and not go into

:19:27. > :19:34.residential homes are even end up in the NHS. Madame Deputy Speaker, I

:19:35. > :19:38.want to talk about a young man. A young man with mental health issues.

:19:39. > :19:46.Mental health issues his family could not support. He was being

:19:47. > :19:48.supported at supported housing. He needed national health care. The

:19:49. > :19:55.only place it could be offered was in Germany. I raised this with the

:19:56. > :20:02.minister. The minister is not with us since last week. He did his best

:20:03. > :20:08.but could not come up with a solution. If this proposal goes

:20:09. > :20:14.ahead, he will not even have the sheltered support. We know we have

:20:15. > :20:18.not got the NHS mental health provision. This will take away the

:20:19. > :20:24.only provision that is there. It needs to be looked at carefully.

:20:25. > :20:36.Then there are care leavers. We have many in St. -- Saint St Helens. I

:20:37. > :20:42.would ask that you really do speed this up but consider how much damage

:20:43. > :20:46.is going to be done to society and where the cost is going to be picked

:20:47. > :20:51.up. There are no beds available in our hospitals, not in the

:20:52. > :20:54.north-west. There is not the money available in social services. Please

:20:55. > :21:02.be speedy and do it carefully and consider the people affected.

:21:03. > :21:07.It is a pleasure to follow my friends, the Honourable members for

:21:08. > :21:10.Saint St Helens and South Shields, and the member for South

:21:11. > :21:11.Cambridgeshire. I am sure she will agree that housing in Cambridge is

:21:12. > :21:23.now fearsomely expensive. The average rent is twice the

:21:24. > :21:27.average rent in the rest of England. The office for national statistics

:21:28. > :21:32.tell us that house prices in Cambridge have risen faster since

:21:33. > :21:36.the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats formed their alliance than

:21:37. > :21:41.anywhere else in the country. People are increasingly locked out of the

:21:42. > :21:46.housing market and the private sector. It's against that backdrop

:21:47. > :21:50.that people trying to provide sheltered housing in like Cambridge

:21:51. > :21:56.have to operate. When you ask them about the current situation... I

:21:57. > :21:59.went to see one of the houses of the excellent metropolitan housing

:22:00. > :22:07.scheme and it was inspiring, exactly the kind of scheme that every member

:22:08. > :22:10.in this house would be proud of the country is promoting. But they told

:22:11. > :22:14.me they would not be able to do it again because of the uncertainty

:22:15. > :22:17.they face. The honourable member for South Cambridge has already

:22:18. > :22:29.mentioned the excellent Cambridge Housing Society. They have a scheme

:22:30. > :22:31.and I was with them at the weekend celebrating supported housing

:22:32. > :22:39.schemes. Their chief executive will have had the same conversation as

:22:40. > :22:44.with me, he is absolutely clear the schemes they wanted to do are on

:22:45. > :22:48.hold. The potential loss to the Cambridge Housing Society is over

:22:49. > :22:54.half ?1 million. Four scheme is absolutely at risk. I was very

:22:55. > :22:58.impressed with the comments of my friend, the honourable member for

:22:59. > :23:06.Nottingham South, she is not in her seat now but I expect every member

:23:07. > :23:12.will have the same sets of examples, Cambridgeshire council manages three

:23:13. > :23:16.hostels, 22 units, and accommodation for adults recovering from mental

:23:17. > :23:20.health conditions and 13 housing schemes. More than 460 tenancies.

:23:21. > :23:28.What they tell me is that all of these rely on this income and in a

:23:29. > :23:30.high cost city like Cambridge there will be inevitable consequence of

:23:31. > :23:37.these changes, that they will have to make more cuts, fewer... Less

:23:38. > :23:40.preventive work to stop people going to the national Health Service,

:23:41. > :23:44.which is of course already tremendously overburdened. I think

:23:45. > :23:49.we've heard from across the house already that there is a problem

:23:50. > :23:53.here. I just urge the Government to think hard about this. We have a new

:23:54. > :23:59.Prime Minister, she's made her point about social justice. She has a very

:24:00. > :24:05.opportunity to turn those words into action. It doesn't have to be that

:24:06. > :24:09.difficult. Please just do it. Thank you very much, Madame Baby P

:24:10. > :24:19.Speaker. I'm pleased to take part in the debate today. I want to

:24:20. > :24:33.concentrate the threat posed to people fleeing violent

:24:34. > :24:40.relationships. At the moment there is no clarity on when these will be

:24:41. > :24:42.introduced and these extremely vulnerable people could go into the

:24:43. > :24:50.cold. It is a litany of idle that adequate

:24:51. > :25:00.support is available for anyone at the moment they decide to leave such

:25:01. > :25:07.a relationship. I give the Government the benefit of the doubt.

:25:08. > :25:10.I hope that this was made with the complete and full understanding of

:25:11. > :25:14.the consequences it would have. But this has now gone on far too long

:25:15. > :25:18.and we need a resolution. These absolutely vital services must be

:25:19. > :25:24.protected. The new Government has the chance to change it and show

:25:25. > :25:29.that they are different to their predecessors. They know the cost of

:25:30. > :25:36.everything and the value of nothing. An analysis carried out by women's

:25:37. > :25:47.aid found that refuge costs are significantly higher. The former

:25:48. > :25:50.Scottish Government secretary said categorically in a letter last

:25:51. > :25:54.February that without the current levels of housing benefit to cover

:25:55. > :26:02.the additional costs, refugees will be forced to close. -- refuges.

:26:03. > :26:12.We should not allow ourselves to ignore the challenges that they

:26:13. > :26:17.currently face. He warned that lives will be lost unless a secure and

:26:18. > :26:30.more long-term funding setup is in place. Between 2010 and 2014 there

:26:31. > :26:34.was a 7% reduction in the number of refugees and shamefully some were

:26:35. > :26:39.turned away because of lack of capacity. We need to ensure that no

:26:40. > :26:48.one who is abused is turned away from the support that they seek.

:26:49. > :26:51."The Policy of capping housing benefit may create the viral and

:26:52. > :27:02.where women are unable to escape a violent relationship". -- create the

:27:03. > :27:05.environment. It is unacceptable that women may be trapped in violent

:27:06. > :27:11.relationships because they cannot afford to seek help. Especially

:27:12. > :27:19.people under 35 who, under the proposals, would be restricted to

:27:20. > :27:25.the different route. It had the highest incidence of domestic abuse

:27:26. > :27:34.recorded in Scotland. Even Lord Freud admitted there had

:27:35. > :27:39.been unintended consequences for the public purse as a result of this

:27:40. > :27:47.policy and he gave his commitment to Scottish women's aid. I would call

:27:48. > :28:01.on him now to to honour this promise and finest elution as soon as

:28:02. > :28:09.possible. -- find a solution. Women's aid have stated that this

:28:10. > :28:15.would create additional problems for women and children trapped in

:28:16. > :28:21.domestic abuse seeking refuge. They should be used to make sure that

:28:22. > :28:22.things up -- that women are protected, not badly thought out

:28:23. > :28:36.Tory policies. Simply delaying the changes is not

:28:37. > :28:37.good enough. These devastating changes must be stopped and stopped

:28:38. > :28:46.now. Thank you very much, Madame Debbie

:28:47. > :28:52.to speak. I think this has been a very thorough debate with 21

:28:53. > :28:59.contributions to this important debate. Can I start by welcoming the

:29:00. > :29:04.new work and pensions team and particularly the conciliatory tone

:29:05. > :29:12.that the new Secretary of State took in his opening speech. I would just

:29:13. > :29:19.like to gently chide him for what he was saying was an exemplary record

:29:20. > :29:28.from the Government. Actually in last year's welfare reform, the

:29:29. > :29:33.Government actually refused an amendment that we tabled on this

:29:34. > :29:38.side of the house which would have exempt supporting housing and made

:29:39. > :29:44.it specified housing, not subject to the 1% housing benefit cut. Although

:29:45. > :29:48.I recognise its early days, I hope we can move forward in a

:29:49. > :29:51.constructive way. I would like to pay particular tribute not only to

:29:52. > :29:56.my honourable friend the member for Islington in his excellent speech

:29:57. > :30:05.but also to a number of members who have spoken today. The honourable

:30:06. > :30:10.member from Glasgow Central who rightly identified the issues around

:30:11. > :30:16.the local housing allowance cap and gave some very practical examples of

:30:17. > :30:23.how this would be affecting her constituents, and similarly the

:30:24. > :30:26.member for Paisley and Renfrewshire talking about the threats to

:30:27. > :30:34.refuges. Obviously with the Scotland act on its way, the Scottish

:30:35. > :30:36.Parliament and Scottish administration now have the

:30:37. > :30:40.opportunity to take their own course of action in relation to any future

:30:41. > :30:50.cap if this Government chooses not to. The honourable gentleman from

:30:51. > :30:55.Waveney, can I commend him not just on his remarks today but the debate

:30:56. > :30:58.he had last week. It is positive that we can see we're aiming to work

:30:59. > :31:03.across the house in this very important area that so many members

:31:04. > :31:11.across the house recognise the issues that very vulnerable people

:31:12. > :31:16.are facing. There are a number of... My friends on this side of the

:31:17. > :31:21.house, my member for Newcastle -- the member for Newcastle East who

:31:22. > :31:23.rightly identified the knock-on effects on other Government

:31:24. > :31:27.departments, in particular around the costs there. My honourable

:31:28. > :31:33.friend the member for North West Durham, a very powerful speech on

:31:34. > :31:38.the impacts that supported housing provisions will have on people with

:31:39. > :31:43.mental health problems and my honourable friend for

:31:44. > :31:51.Nottinghamshire South, again, on how it will impact her constituents in

:31:52. > :31:55.Nottingham. I do need to take some exemption on the former Minister for

:31:56. > :32:01.disabled people. I think, I'm sure he was not intending to misrepresent

:32:02. > :32:04.the actual figures but in terms of what he said around the funding that

:32:05. > :32:10.is provided to disabled people, we have actually seen a percentage in

:32:11. > :32:15.terms of spending for GDP, as a percentage of GDP spending has

:32:16. > :32:22.actually gone down. We know that disabled people will have had, will

:32:23. > :32:27.have had eight total of ?30 billion cut in support to 3.7 million

:32:28. > :32:34.disabled people. No I'm sorry, I won't on this one. We've had so many

:32:35. > :32:39.opportunities, Madam Deputy Speaker, you would go straight to Hansard to

:32:40. > :32:46.see exactly what those remarks were. But now, moving onto substantive

:32:47. > :32:52.remarks, if I may, many people defined the support housing provides

:32:53. > :32:56.both in terms of the schemes of accommodation and the support they

:32:57. > :33:01.give to very vulnerable people. Including preventative services, to

:33:02. > :33:08.older people in sheltered care, it may be supported housing to people

:33:09. > :33:12.who have suffered domestic abuse, all with drug and alcohol or mental

:33:13. > :33:20.health issues or people who have learning disabilities. People who

:33:21. > :33:23.are homeless, or former offenders or young people leaving care. We've

:33:24. > :33:29.also heard very powerfully in terms of people who have been in the Armed

:33:30. > :33:33.Forces as well. Services can be temporary and they can be longer

:33:34. > :33:39.term including four older people and people with learning disabilities.

:33:40. > :33:42.While the types of supported housing range very widely, they all share a

:33:43. > :33:48.common purpose in providing a safe, secure home, support for vulnerable

:33:49. > :33:54.people to live independent, healthy and fulfilling lives, as we would

:33:55. > :33:58.all want to see. An outcome of supporting housing is that it has

:33:59. > :34:03.the added benefit of preventing acute admissions to our already much

:34:04. > :34:05.stretched health and care services of setting financial pressures in

:34:06. > :34:10.these and other Government departments to the tune of ?640

:34:11. > :34:16.million a year. Although the supported housing rents tend to be

:34:17. > :34:21.higher than general housing needs, this is due to the nature of the

:34:22. > :34:24.schemes that the services that they provide. It is estimated that

:34:25. > :34:29.investing in this type of accommodation delivers a net saving

:34:30. > :34:36.to taxpayers of around ?940 per person per year, and that is across

:34:37. > :34:39.all client groups. Last year the estimated number of housing units

:34:40. > :34:49.needed for the working age population for support housing was

:34:50. > :34:55.125,000 196. The number available was 109,556, a shortfall of 15,000

:34:56. > :35:02.640. It is estimated, if these current trends continue, this

:35:03. > :35:07.shortfall will double by 2019-20. I'm sure the Minister has in terms

:35:08. > :35:13.of her own constituency case, will have had her own examples of

:35:14. > :35:18.homelessness. I have to say, my caseload has absolutely hit the roof

:35:19. > :35:23.in recent weeks and months and I'm not just talking about sofa surfers

:35:24. > :35:28.but people who are living rough including one young man who was

:35:29. > :35:32.living in a tent by the side of a reservoir. There were no hostel

:35:33. > :35:41.places or other specialist accommodation for them, highlighting

:35:42. > :35:45.the print -- the importance of a shortfall in supply. Over the last

:35:46. > :35:50.year, there has been considerable anxiety across all supported housing

:35:51. > :35:54.providers that not only are there already too few places to cope with

:35:55. > :35:59.the current levels of need but that collectively the Government's 1% cut

:36:00. > :36:04.in housing benefit in the 2016 welfare reform and the cap in the

:36:05. > :36:07.housing allowance announced in the Autumn Statement would make

:36:08. > :36:10.thousands of supported housing scheme is an viable, affecting

:36:11. > :36:18.hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people. The NHS -- the wage cap

:36:19. > :36:23.alone will mean 156,000 specialist homes will be forced to close and

:36:24. > :36:28.that is in addition to stopping 2400 new homes being completed, a further

:36:29. > :36:34.9270 homes land for construction have now been cancelled.

:36:35. > :36:42.The loss of revenue could be over ?50 million a year. So, we recognise

:36:43. > :36:47.that the Government and we welcome what the Government has done in

:36:48. > :36:53.suspending the introduction of the housing benefit cut and the LHA cap

:36:54. > :37:01.as well, but we are concerned as many people have stressed, about the

:37:02. > :37:05.delay in the review, in providing a long-term evidence-based sustainable

:37:06. > :37:09.solution and the issue this is having for investors in terms of new

:37:10. > :37:13.development bus in unfreezing the developments that have been put on

:37:14. > :37:17.hold because of this uncertainty. Now, I am disappointed, I have to

:37:18. > :37:20.say, that the Secretary of State seems to have kicked this into the

:37:21. > :37:29.long grass, I am sure his mobile phone will be providing the answers

:37:30. > :37:35.for him in that regard. But it is disappointing that, that once again,

:37:36. > :37:42.we were expecting as my honourable friend the member for dull wish has

:37:43. > :37:47.mentioned, we expected as were housing providers, a statement by

:37:48. > :37:53.recess, we are six months into the one t 12 month period, and 19 months

:37:54. > :37:59.from the review, so when can we expect to have this review?

:38:00. > :38:06.Specifically? What, what contingency arrangements are in place to enable

:38:07. > :38:09.housing providers to plan? Will the minister confirm that disregularsry

:38:10. > :38:14.housing payments is not the Government's only solution to

:38:15. > :38:20.plugging the gap in the rent. Will she confirm that no-one that no-one

:38:21. > :38:23.with support needs will end up in unsuitable accommodation result.

:38:24. > :38:27.Will he also confirm the actual housing support cost of delivering a

:38:28. > :38:33.quality series will be met and flexible enough to meet challenging

:38:34. > :38:40.levels of demand. Will he ensure, that the evidence, she, I beg your

:38:41. > :38:46.pardon, it is published and promoted to the public, final will will the

:38:47. > :38:49.minister ensure that the new funding arrangements assure long-term

:38:50. > :38:55.funding for providersers, enabling to continue investment in homes and

:38:56. > :39:00.services that meet vulnerable tenants's needs by funding rents and

:39:01. > :39:05.service challenges through the service system and it should be

:39:06. > :39:09.funded through Government and cross departmental basis reflecting the

:39:10. > :39:13.outcomes they like to achieve. The Prime Minister has given her

:39:14. > :39:18.pledge for a one nation Britain, and that when she makes the, she said

:39:19. > :39:24.when she makes the big calls, or passes new laws she will think of

:39:25. > :39:27.you. As one of her first task, I ask her government start to write the --

:39:28. > :39:32.right the wrongs that have been done the most vulnerable in society, and

:39:33. > :39:42.make sure that they have the homes and support they need. We need deeds

:39:43. > :39:47.not words. Thank you and I would like to thank

:39:48. > :39:52.the honourable lady opposite for her welcome this afternoon. I would of

:39:53. > :39:55.course like to thank the many right honourable and honourable members

:39:56. > :39:59.who are here for the interest, the passion and the enthusiasm they have

:40:00. > :40:04.shown in this debate today. I am delighted to have been appointed to

:40:05. > :40:08.my role at the department for work and pension, which does vital work

:40:09. > :40:12.for millions of people across the whole of of our country, it is very

:40:13. > :40:17.clear the funding of supported housing is a matter that all members

:40:18. > :40:22.take a keen interest in and rightly so. Given the valuable support that

:40:23. > :40:26.this sector provides so Tom of is most vulnerable citizens in society.

:40:27. > :40:29.Through the welfare reforms that my department has been driving over the

:40:30. > :40:32.last six year, we have sought to ensure that everyone has the

:40:33. > :40:38.opportunity to realise their am basings. And we can see that

:40:39. > :40:41.working. With today's Labour Market Statistics showing that employment

:40:42. > :40:46.continues to go up and remains at a record high.

:40:47. > :40:51.But alongside this ambition, we know the importance of protecting the

:40:52. > :40:55.most run rabble in our society. We have heard from 19 backbench

:40:56. > :41:00.members, constituency members up and down the country and many have come

:41:01. > :41:04.across wonderful work of my supported housing providers in our

:41:05. > :41:10.own local community, apologies if I do not manage to mention everybody,

:41:11. > :41:19.I will do my best but I would like to highlight some of the excellent

:41:20. > :41:25.contributions. The honourable member for Glasgow has mentioned a few

:41:26. > :41:29.projects. I would like to emphasise there have been 200 individuals

:41:30. > :41:32.involved in the review that has been undertaken, she spoke about

:41:33. > :41:38.confidence refuge and she will have heard the Prime Minister this

:41:39. > :41:43.morning mention that in Prime Minister's Questions. The importance

:41:44. > :41:46.we do everything question for the victims of domestic violence. The

:41:47. > :41:53.member for North Swindon who I thank for his kind words and hard work in

:41:54. > :41:56.the department, talked about destroy Gang Care he is very knowledgeable

:41:57. > :42:09.and I welcome the support he has given today. My friend the member

:42:10. > :42:14.for Lewis raised projects in her constituency. The the member for not

:42:15. > :42:18.ham envied me top visit her constituency. I did not get the same

:42:19. > :42:29.invitation to go Plymouth in the summer months.

:42:30. > :42:36.We would be delighted to see Moy honourable friend in Plymouth. I

:42:37. > :42:39.will get in touch regarding her diary.

:42:40. > :42:47.I thank him for that invitation, it didn't take much of a nudge, did it.

:42:48. > :42:51.My friend raise a number of examples from her constituency and including

:42:52. > :42:55.speaking about a the trust with whom he spent a night sleeping rough. I

:42:56. > :42:58.remember when I was newly electeded spending a night sleeping on

:42:59. > :43:03.Southampton common, when I was the society of St James they gave me the

:43:04. > :43:07.easy option of doing that in August. My friend, the member for Dudley

:43:08. > :43:10.South spoke movingly about the support provided for his

:43:11. > :43:16.constituency went by Black Country housing group. The member for

:43:17. > :43:20.Blackburn spoke about the importance of Bramwell house for homeless

:43:21. > :43:28.people. My right honourable friend for Solihull spoke of the carers,

:43:29. > :43:31.and the right honourable spoke of Russia house and recognised the

:43:32. > :43:36.response of Governments working together to find a solution that

:43:37. > :43:40.works for a very diverse sector, I can assure him we are doing exactly

:43:41. > :43:44.that. My friend, my right honourable

:43:45. > :43:49.friend said that visiting supported housing providers was one of the

:43:50. > :43:57.most moving and importants he has doe as part of his job. The member

:43:58. > :44:01.for Dulwich talked about a housing providing by action for the blind,

:44:02. > :44:06.housing for older people, women's refuges and many other, that gives

:44:07. > :44:14.us some of the perspective of the great amount of variety there is. It

:44:15. > :44:17.is an incredibly diverse sector. The right honourable for Newcastle upon

:44:18. > :44:20.Tyne East spoke about the savings to the public purse that could be found

:44:21. > :44:29.from supported accommodation, he is of course right. By investing in sup

:44:30. > :44:34.for -- supported housing pressure on other systems can be ease. I want to

:44:35. > :44:38.reassure members we do appreciate this very important point, and are

:44:39. > :44:41.mindful we need to look at the cost and benefits of supported housing in

:44:42. > :44:45.the round. Mention was made of Brexit. I guess

:44:46. > :44:50.that is inevitable. It is still too early to tell what the impact will

:44:51. > :44:54.be but we are keeping markets under close review and are engaged with

:44:55. > :44:59.house builders. DCLG ministers are meeting leaders to listen to their

:45:00. > :45:04.views in light of the referendum result. I would like to pay

:45:05. > :45:08.particular tribute to the member for Birmingham Yardley. She welcomed me

:45:09. > :45:13.to the House and I would like to thank her for that and she has an

:45:14. > :45:16.incredible track record. She is knowledgeable and I value her

:45:17. > :45:20.experience and expertise. As she mention wed have shared platforms

:45:21. > :45:26.together. I hope we will continue to do so and it was a great sadness I

:45:27. > :45:29.had to resign as a vice-chairman of the committee she chairsches I hope

:45:30. > :45:35.I will continue alongside her, can I make it clear to her, that my door

:45:36. > :45:38.is always open to her. She made the point which is very important that,

:45:39. > :45:42.we need consensus and commitment on this issue, and I am determines to

:45:43. > :45:47.find that. From my own experience I know of the

:45:48. > :45:55.excellent work done by organisations such as the trust in North West

:45:56. > :46:00.Hampshire and Care After Combat it provides a wide range of housing

:46:01. > :46:06.options for 7.5,000 people round the country with the focus on disabled

:46:07. > :46:09.people. I know some of of my constituents have benefitted where

:46:10. > :46:15.residents receive the care and support they need if in fully a

:46:16. > :46:19.accessible homes. It has opened Simon Weston house in Southampton

:46:20. > :46:24.which specialised in accommodation, rehabilitation and life skills for

:46:25. > :46:26.former armed services personnel who find themselves in the prison Serb

:46:27. > :46:33.visit advice, I look forward to visiting then. I was pleased to hear

:46:34. > :46:37.the member for Easington, North West Durham and St Helens mention the

:46:38. > :46:43.military covenant and the importance of what we do for former service

:46:44. > :46:51.personnel. Unfortunately you are no longer if -- he is no longer in his

:46:52. > :46:54.place. I have been pleased to work alongside the YMCA and he mentioned

:46:55. > :46:59.Northern Ireland, which of course, is devolved.

:47:00. > :47:03.For hundreds of thousands of people across the country, from those with

:47:04. > :47:07.mental health conditions to ex offender, to those escaping domestic

:47:08. > :47:09.violence, the importance of supported housing cannot be

:47:10. > :47:15.overestimated. We have heard the concerns of the

:47:16. > :47:20.supported housing sector, an about the application of the rates to all

:47:21. > :47:24.social Serb for rates. I have previously before coming to this

:47:25. > :47:27.role met with Women's Aid, locally in Southampton and with the

:47:28. > :47:31.organisation nationally and have arranged to meet with stake holders

:47:32. > :47:36.about this issue. I know there has been a strong dialogue with this

:47:37. > :47:42.sector already and it will continue. Let me assure the house I do

:47:43. > :47:46.understand these concerns and my right honourable the Secretary of

:47:47. > :47:49.State for work and pension set out we are committed to providing a

:47:50. > :47:53.solution to this issue. It is a hugely diverse sector, and we need a

:47:54. > :47:59.funding solution that can fit to whole sector.

:48:00. > :48:02.We are committed to make an announcement in the autumn that will

:48:03. > :48:06.set out what the vt government's views on what it should look like.

:48:07. > :48:10.The shadow Secretary of State made a number of points and I think it is

:48:11. > :48:14.critical in response to her, to reiterate the point. This is a

:48:15. > :48:21.complex sector, we are determines to get it right. It is more important

:48:22. > :48:27.that we get it right and working, than we rush anything through. I

:48:28. > :48:32.wish to reassure the House issue remains a key priority for the teams

:48:33. > :48:37.at the DWP and DCLG. Indeed ministers across Whitehall and in

:48:38. > :48:41.the devolved admission have an important ecstasy in the outcome. I

:48:42. > :48:45.would like to place on record my thanks to those organisations across

:48:46. > :48:49.the sector, local authority, providers and residents in supported

:48:50. > :48:53.housing, who have engaged so willingly in our evidence and policy

:48:54. > :48:58.reviews. I want to ensure we continue to work closely together as

:48:59. > :49:03.we move towards a consultation on the long-term option for reform in

:49:04. > :49:06.the autumn. I would like to take us back to the beginning and the right

:49:07. > :49:11.honourable gentleman for Easington and the quote he used. Old hands at

:49:12. > :49:17.making policy in an evidence free zone. I am not sure how badly to

:49:18. > :49:24.take the comment old hands. Let me reassure him this is not an evidence

:49:25. > :49:28.free done. Ozone. I look forward to updating the House and to don't

:49:29. > :49:33.listen to honourable members' views on how best to ensure the supported

:49:34. > :49:37.housing sector we value so much can continue to thrive. We have heard

:49:38. > :49:41.from the Secretary of State today that the review will be published in

:49:42. > :49:46.the early autumn. I therefore urge honourable members to oppose this

:49:47. > :49:53.motion. The question is as on the order

:49:54. > :03:17.paper. Paper. Division. Clear the lobby.

:03:18. > :03:40.Order, order. The ayes two the ride, 256. The nos to the left, 290. The

:03:41. > :03:46.nos have it, the nos have it. Unlock. Before we come to the next

:03:47. > :03:51.business, I have two notify the house that in accordance with the

:03:52. > :03:59.Royal assent act 1967, Her Majesty has signified her Royal assent to

:04:00. > :04:02.the following act, supply and estimation act 2016. We now come to

:04:03. > :04:06.the second motion in the name of the Leader of the Opposition on the

:04:07. > :04:11.charter for budget responsibility. I call John McDonnell to hold the

:04:12. > :04:16.motion. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I see that the Chancellor

:04:17. > :04:20.has not joined us today. I was hoping he was going to improve on

:04:21. > :04:25.the record of his predecessor for attendance, but it is good to see

:04:26. > :04:32.the Chief Secretary on the odd occasion. Madam Deputy Speaker, I

:04:33. > :04:37.would like to move the notion as it stands in my name and that of my

:04:38. > :04:40.honourable friends. What the Leave vote said too many was that a new

:04:41. > :04:45.economic approach was needed. Too many of our country's places and

:04:46. > :04:50.people feel they have been left behind and this Government's current

:04:51. > :04:57.fiscal rules are clearly exposed as inappropriate for an economy facing

:04:58. > :05:01.this kind of shock. So we need a new framework for fiscal policy that

:05:02. > :05:06.will support the investment this country so desperately needs. Yet

:05:07. > :05:09.all of us have been left without any clarity from the Government over

:05:10. > :05:16.their future direction. Business groups today report that they are

:05:17. > :05:19.increasingly concerned about the Government's lack of direction and

:05:20. > :05:25.their lack of interaction with the Government. The lack of a clear plan

:05:26. > :05:28.is already harming investment. The Prime Minister indicated in her

:05:29. > :05:33.initial speech that she was looking to set a new direction for

:05:34. > :05:36.Government economic policy. We agree that a change of course is needed

:05:37. > :05:44.including more investment and an industrial strategy. Certainly. I

:05:45. > :05:47.thank the gentleman for way. What we hope will be a change of direction

:05:48. > :05:50.from the Government because as we know for far too long the Government

:05:51. > :05:56.has been more about a balanced budget than managing the economy.

:05:57. > :05:59.They should have been listening for years to the likes of Richard

:06:00. > :06:03.Murphy, who have actually given four years on a map that this Government

:06:04. > :06:07.should have followed. They failed to follow it and it is why we are in

:06:08. > :06:13.the situation we're in today. I will come onto the way the fiscal rule

:06:14. > :06:19.has harmed the economic growth, the slowest recovery from recession in

:06:20. > :06:20.our history, but let me press on, Madam Deputy Speaker. If I may just

:06:21. > :06:31.finish this sentence, I will... The Prime Minister suggested

:06:32. > :06:36.unfortunately she is largely sticking to the fiscal approach,

:06:37. > :06:39.that has failed so badly so the uncertainty continues and unhill

:06:40. > :06:44.this Government makes clear its plans Britain is on hold.

:06:45. > :06:48.-- until. Grateful for him for giving way. Whatever the speed of

:06:49. > :06:51.the recovery, coming out of deepest recession we have perhaps ever known

:06:52. > :06:55.and we have recovered faster than my of our industrial major industrial

:06:56. > :07:01.competitor, I am sure the honourable gentleman would recognise that. This

:07:02. > :07:06.is the slowest recovery in our history, the last time the date was

:07:07. > :07:11.put on it was 1066. To be frank the way we are recovering is on the

:07:12. > :07:15.basis of increased household debt and insecure job, I don't think any

:07:16. > :07:22.Government should be proud of that record. Let me finish another

:07:23. > :07:26.paragraph. Can I say that a new set of rules for fiscal policy are

:07:27. > :07:30.needed, I know there are some members of the House who have

:07:31. > :07:34.questioned the need for fiscal rules at all.

:07:35. > :07:40.Can I say during the discussion on the fiscal responsibility bill in

:07:41. > :07:44.early 2010, I well recall as other members will the former Chancellor

:07:45. > :07:47.saying the bill was a completely feeble stunt, will the former

:07:48. > :07:50.Chancellor saying the bill was a completely feeble stunt, and further

:07:51. > :07:53.more, I quote "The biggest load of nonsense this Government have had

:07:54. > :07:58.the audacity to bring to the present to Parliament in this session." That

:07:59. > :08:04.was the Chancellor condemning Gordon Brown's fiscal rule. A short while

:08:05. > :08:08.later the member for Tatton became the Chancellor and introduced his

:08:09. > :08:11.own fiscal rule. He missed every target in his first charter and

:08:12. > :08:19.brought in a second. He was on course to miss target in the second

:08:20. > :08:23.charter so he brought in a third. He just questioned the performance

:08:24. > :08:29.of the economy under the fiscal rule, isn't it the case the deficit

:08:30. > :08:32.fell from 11% to 4% of GDP. That the economy created 2.6 million jobs

:08:33. > :08:36.more man the rest of Europe put together and the employment rate

:08:37. > :08:39.increased by 4% and stands at the highest level in our country's

:08:40. > :08:44.history. Isn't that evidence that the approach of the last Government

:08:45. > :08:48.worked and should be continued? Can I remind him of his own Government's

:08:49. > :08:52.fiscal rule. Under his own Government's rule the deficit should

:08:53. > :08:57.have been eliminated last year. Debt should have developed. I just, I

:08:58. > :09:06.will send the honourable member a reading lits.

:09:07. > :09:11.-- list. I thank him for giving way, the Prime Minister's speech when she

:09:12. > :09:17.was aelected last week, she said she wouldn't be govern for the few but

:09:18. > :09:21.the many, her response today in relation to the poverty, inflicted

:09:22. > :09:24.on a lot of people in this country, her answer was the usual answer,

:09:25. > :09:28.well you have to have a strong economy that. Suggests to me she was

:09:29. > :09:33.departed from what she said in Downing Street a few days ago, would

:09:34. > :09:36.he not agree this has been the longest recession through punitive

:09:37. > :09:43.measures since it can second wore war? The Second World War lasted six

:09:44. > :09:48.years, this has losted longer. -- lasted longer. What I was trying to

:09:49. > :09:53.take heart from the speech in Downing Street was the recognition

:09:54. > :09:57.of how divided Britain is at the moment, between the wealthy and

:09:58. > :10:03.those on the sharpest end of the austerity measures, if I can finish.

:10:04. > :10:06.I was hoping that would be translated today into an

:10:07. > :10:12.acknowledgement that the fiscal rule must go, that is where I am pris

:10:13. > :10:18.press on to. I will come back, and there will be plenty of time. As I

:10:19. > :10:23.say, missed every target the first charter. Brought in a second. On

:10:24. > :10:27.course to miss, the Chancellor brought in a third, and in September

:10:28. > :10:40.last year, the then Chancellor presented his 2015 update, and the

:10:41. > :10:45.charter for budget responsibility. The Government new last summer that

:10:46. > :10:50.the vast majority who were asked criticised this approach, has had

:10:51. > :10:55.the Treasury Select Committee. The Labour Party almost with exception

:10:56. > :11:02.agreed that this approach was likely to prove misguide but we were

:11:03. > :11:07.defeated in the lobbies that day but the warnings have been... He will

:11:08. > :11:11.know that any critique of the Government should be accompanied by

:11:12. > :11:15.a coherent strategy, on that basis is he embarrassed that the Leader of

:11:16. > :11:21.the Opposition economic's adviser ECB described the Labour Party's

:11:22. > :11:24.approach thus, there was no policy direction, no messaging, no

:11:25. > :11:29.co-ordination, no nothing. He is not the economic adviser and

:11:30. > :11:33.never has been, we doubted his judgment unfortunately, she the tax

:11:34. > :11:38.accountant rather than adviser, on tack avoidance he is excellent, on

:11:39. > :11:44.macroeconomic policy, he may have a lot to be desine sired. Let me press