08/09/2016

:00:00. > :00:00.write a new government is reviewing where we are and looking at how best

:00:00. > :00:08.we can enhance what matters most, which is opportunity? He is

:00:09. > :00:12.absolutely right. We have 1.4 million more children in good, or

:00:13. > :00:15.outstanding schools. We have done that in a variety of ways in terms

:00:16. > :00:18.of what children are learning in class and also how we are getting

:00:19. > :00:23.schools to work together collaboratively. We now need to say

:00:24. > :00:27.how can we take that to the next level but also critically, for

:00:28. > :00:30.million-plus children who are still not getting the attainment levels

:00:31. > :00:35.that we want and live in parts of a country where they do not have the

:00:36. > :00:39.chance to get to a good school, we have to make sure we change the

:00:40. > :00:43.terms of trade to make sure that they are turned into education

:00:44. > :00:50.opportunities. Business question, Mr Paul Flynn. Will the leader of the

:00:51. > :00:55.House gave us the business for next week? Leader of the House, Mr David

:00:56. > :01:00.Liddington. Mr Speaker, the bidders for next week, Monday the 12th of

:01:01. > :01:05.September, remaining stages of the Wales Bill. Tuesday the 13th,

:01:06. > :01:10.secondary reading of the Digital economy Bill. Wednesday the 14th,

:01:11. > :01:15.motions to approve statutory instruments relating to welfare

:01:16. > :01:20.reform in Northern Ireland and pensions. Followed by an opposition

:01:21. > :01:25.day, and on allotted half day, they will be a debate on NHS

:01:26. > :01:31.sustainability and transformation plans... On the 15th of September,

:01:32. > :01:37.debate and a motion related to domestic abuse victims in family law

:01:38. > :01:40.courts, followed by a debate on a motion related to quantitative

:01:41. > :01:45.easing. These are determined by the backbench business committee. On

:01:46. > :01:49.Friday the 16th, the House will not be sitting. On Monday the 10th of

:01:50. > :01:55.October, the provisional business will include the second reading of

:01:56. > :01:59.the neighbourhood planning Bill. I would also like to inform the House

:02:00. > :02:04.that the business in Westminster Hall for the 15th of September and

:02:05. > :02:09.the 13th of October will be as follows... The 15th of September, a

:02:10. > :02:16.debate on the sixth report from the Justice committee of session 2015-16

:02:17. > :02:21.on prison safety, that is determined by the liaison committee. And on the

:02:22. > :02:28.13th of October a general debate on Tobacco control, determined by the

:02:29. > :02:33.backbench business committee. Can I briefly at Mr Speaker, that I am

:02:34. > :02:40.sure members of all parties represented in this House will want

:02:41. > :02:44.to wish success to the team GB Paralympic athletes on the first day

:02:45. > :02:49.of competition today and personally as an MP that represents Stoke

:02:50. > :02:52.Mandeville, I think everybody in the United Kingdom can take some

:02:53. > :03:00.considerable pride in the fact that it was in this country that because

:03:01. > :03:04.of the drive of Ludwig Guttman, we saw the creation of a disability

:03:05. > :03:08.sport movement which has grown into the worldwide Paralympic movement,

:03:09. > :03:17.whose achievements we celebrate in the next two weeks. We thank the

:03:18. > :03:22.leader and we all are bass king in the reflected glory of the brilliant

:03:23. > :03:27.success of our Olympians and we acknowledge, as the leader has said,

:03:28. > :03:31.the pioneering work in this country in the whole introduction of the

:03:32. > :03:39.concept of the Paralympic games. We all wish the athletes well. There is

:03:40. > :03:43.one minor quibble we would have, it is an odd moment when we are

:03:44. > :03:51.celebrating the success of sport to diminish the role of the time

:03:52. > :03:55.available of the committee responsible for these affairs in

:03:56. > :04:00.this House, culture media and sport. It has been reduced today. We have

:04:01. > :04:06.gone on with this reluctantly but we see it as a temporary measure and we

:04:07. > :04:11.certainly do not think any of these areas are minor in any way. We look

:04:12. > :04:17.for the restoration of the full-time that was previously available to

:04:18. > :04:24.culture media and sport. Next Wednesday's Welsh debate will

:04:25. > :04:30.illustrate the degraded system that our democracy has and the way that

:04:31. > :04:38.it is heading into further distress. The Welsh Bill will not guarantee in

:04:39. > :04:42.anyway a compensatory increase in the number of members of the Welsh

:04:43. > :04:53.Assembly, although the work level has trouble. But in the future,

:04:54. > :04:58.Wales will lose 11 of the 40 MPs, will lose the four MPs of the MEPs

:04:59. > :05:04.that represent Wales, and we have got this turmoil in the democratic

:05:05. > :05:10.system when the disgrace of buying places in the House of Lords

:05:11. > :05:16.continues. Quite rightly, the press condemned the decisions taken by the

:05:17. > :05:20.previous prime minister in awarding places in the House of Lords, which

:05:21. > :05:27.is already bloated, which is already trying to cope with 300 extra

:05:28. > :05:33.members which they do not need, and to add to this in order to placate

:05:34. > :05:39.the interests of lobbyists, cronies and party donors. What we should be

:05:40. > :05:45.doing, instead of having a piecemeal reform of only one part of the

:05:46. > :05:49.defects in our democracy, and that is a reform which will please only

:05:50. > :05:57.one party and help only the Tory party, but will also disenfranchise

:05:58. > :06:03.2 million voters. Should we not be getting together and realising how

:06:04. > :06:06.far our democracy is degraded and how an all-party agreement on how we

:06:07. > :06:12.can come together with a reform which will be all embracing, which

:06:13. > :06:18.will look at all these abuses, in order to have a system that is fair,

:06:19. > :06:25.that is of good value for the electors, and one that can win back

:06:26. > :06:29.the respect that we have had internationally for the quality of

:06:30. > :06:36.our democracy? The decision to halt the contract on Hinkley point was a

:06:37. > :06:43.bold one hand a brave one. The position is not one in which there

:06:44. > :06:46.is a crisis of security. It is an out of date system which has been

:06:47. > :06:52.introduced, which has never worked anywhere in the world, because of

:06:53. > :06:56.the endless construction delays and the multi-billion cost overruns

:06:57. > :07:02.which have taken place in other countries, and we must also

:07:03. > :07:09.reconsider the atrocious deal struck which would mean that our

:07:10. > :07:13.electricity users would be saddled with the highest prices for

:07:14. > :07:19.electricity in the world for the next 35 years. Can he give us the

:07:20. > :07:25.debate, before any final decision is taken, on Hinkley, so we can

:07:26. > :07:29.consider all these aspects in this House before we blunder into what

:07:30. > :07:36.could be a gigantic financial and technological disaster of Hinkley?

:07:37. > :07:43.Finally, could I ask the minister after his distinguished record as a

:07:44. > :07:50.minister on European affairs, why are we retreating from our noble

:07:51. > :07:55.role as providing the gold standards of human rights in the world and

:07:56. > :08:03.certainly throughout Europe by insisting on a minor matter of our

:08:04. > :08:06.own traditional practices and inviting other countries, the

:08:07. > :08:12.oppressive regimes to go back to the old traditions of abusing and their

:08:13. > :08:18.own nation state citizens and degrading the human rights there? If

:08:19. > :08:22.we are not the as the trailblazers, the gold standard, the others will

:08:23. > :08:27.slip backwards. Does he not feel it is a retrograde step and we should

:08:28. > :08:32.consider being hateful part of the court of human rights and all of the

:08:33. > :08:39.European tradition of human being -- European rights we have lived for

:08:40. > :08:51.many years. -- playing hateful part? -- playing a full role. The usual

:08:52. > :08:55.channels will review those depending upon experience with how it will

:08:56. > :09:01.work out in practice. The question he asked at the end about human

:09:02. > :09:05.rights, I have to say to him, there is absolutely no retreat on the part

:09:06. > :09:11.of the Government from the high human rights standards that we set

:09:12. > :09:16.for ourselves in this country, and which we follow through in promoting

:09:17. > :09:21.foreign policy objectives as well. But the human rights of the United

:09:22. > :09:28.Kingdom were well developed and had a fine reputation before the Human

:09:29. > :09:34.Rights Act of 1998 was enacted. There is a long-standing issue over

:09:35. > :09:37.the way in which a number of particular decisions about the

:09:38. > :09:47.application of Article eight of the Convention have applied, in certain

:09:48. > :09:52.extra in cases. We are looking at how -- in certain cases. The

:09:53. > :09:58.government is absolutely clear that we stand by the human rights

:09:59. > :10:04.embodied in the European convention, which after all was something that

:10:05. > :10:10.was very much the product of work by the United Kingdom, and by its

:10:11. > :10:15.politicians at the time. On Hinkley, as the Prime Minister has said, we

:10:16. > :10:22.do intend to make a decision very soon. I think the objective that we

:10:23. > :10:27.have always had in mind is the need in framing an energy strategy to

:10:28. > :10:33.deliver both on climate change objectives, and on making sure of

:10:34. > :10:35.security of energy supply at a reasonable cost to domestic

:10:36. > :10:45.consumers and British industries so that industry can be competitive in

:10:46. > :10:51.some quite fierce global markets. I suspect he and I on the House of

:10:52. > :10:56.Lords voted the same way when those things were debated in a previous

:10:57. > :11:00.parliament for the partially elected upper house. But in truth there was

:11:01. > :11:06.no consensus or anything approaching consensus in the House of Commons,

:11:07. > :11:12.within parties or across parties about how that issue should be

:11:13. > :11:16.addressed. I do not really think it is likely to be fruitful to try and

:11:17. > :11:23.pursue House of Lords reform as an early priority. I was sorry about

:11:24. > :11:30.the disparaging tone he adopted towards the Wales Bill, because

:11:31. > :11:35.after all, what's this government's record has been about is delivering

:11:36. > :11:37.increased devolution, which the Welsh Assembly and political parties

:11:38. > :11:46.in Wales for the most part have been saying that they wanted to see.

:11:47. > :11:59.I was not shocked, but I was disheartened by the critical remark

:12:00. > :12:02.he threw in about the approach of the parliamentary boundary

:12:03. > :12:08.commission and the framework within which they are operating. One of my

:12:09. > :12:13.treats since my appointment has been to get into the honourable

:12:14. > :12:23.gentleman's autobiography. And I found on pages 57 and 58 of his

:12:24. > :12:26.memoirs that he lauded the achievements of the chartists, and

:12:27. > :12:30.he spilled out that one of the key objectives was that we should have

:12:31. > :12:37.constituencies with the equal numbers of electors in each

:12:38. > :12:41.constituency, and now the framework under which the boundary commission

:12:42. > :12:44.is operating will deliver one of the chartered objectives which he so

:12:45. > :12:53.strongly supported. I would have thought he would be cheering us on

:12:54. > :13:00.and not criticising as. He will be aware that I PSA is out for

:13:01. > :13:07.consultation with quite remarkable changes that are being proposed.

:13:08. > :13:09.They are presenting themselves before various committees and will

:13:10. > :13:16.have two sessions before the admin committee. Would he agree to a

:13:17. > :13:21.debate in the House that might give IPSA the opportunity to get a better

:13:22. > :13:30.understanding of what it is like to be an MP and how they can insist

:13:31. > :13:38.rather than hinder? -- a cyst. It is important that they are statutorily

:13:39. > :13:42.independent, but he is right in saying that any decisions about the

:13:43. > :13:48.salaries, pensions and expenses of members of Parliament should be

:13:49. > :13:51.informed by a proper understanding of what the responsibilities of

:13:52. > :13:57.being a member involved, and about the multifarious different ways in

:13:58. > :14:01.which different members, because of the nature of their constituencies,

:14:02. > :14:07.go about doing the job. I would suggest on a debate that the proper

:14:08. > :14:13.course would be for the backbench business committee perhaps to

:14:14. > :14:22.consider this if there is a large number of members who feel a debate

:14:23. > :14:30.of that kind is needed. Can I join the housing wishing the very best of

:14:31. > :14:33.the Paralympic team, hopefully winning a whole clutch of medals for

:14:34. > :14:37.the country. Yesterday the Prime Minister announced there would be no

:14:38. > :14:41.running commentary on the Brexit negotiations and she refused to say

:14:42. > :14:48.whether she was in favour of being in a single market are not. To me,

:14:49. > :14:53.that sounded that this House will be simply expected to accept whatever

:14:54. > :14:57.this government can clock is when it comes to the Brexit deal, as soon as

:14:58. > :15:05.it gets into deciding what that will be. The leader of the houses

:15:06. > :15:11.parliament 's champion. -- concocted. Will he tell us today

:15:12. > :15:15.that this House will be kept bang up-to-date in every detail of these

:15:16. > :15:18.negotiations as it is the biggest single issue in public life today.

:15:19. > :15:24.We already know that the government have no intention of bringing the

:15:25. > :15:30.trigger for article 60 two this House -- article 50. To this House.

:15:31. > :15:43.We also know there will be no Australian points based, instead

:15:44. > :15:50.we're going to have a wall constructed at Calais. No more

:15:51. > :15:54.keeping this House and the public in the dark about what this government

:15:55. > :15:58.proposes when it comes to wrecks it. This morning it was announced that

:15:59. > :16:01.billions of pounds will be spent on refurbishing this House. I am sure

:16:02. > :16:06.the Leader of the House meant to announce that we will have a full

:16:07. > :16:08.statement on this and a proper debate in government time about

:16:09. > :16:16.these proposals, particularly when we learn that this could cost up to

:16:17. > :16:21.?4.3 billion of public money, and I am sure all the constituents would

:16:22. > :16:31.want to know exactly. Lastly it goes back to the constituency issue in

:16:32. > :16:34.the House of Lords that was raised. We're going to have this

:16:35. > :16:49.announcement on the government's latest plans to gerrymander

:16:50. > :16:52.boundaries. When we have that conversation, can it be all of

:16:53. > :16:59.Parliament because we have to take into account what is going on in

:17:00. > :17:01.that absurd House down the corridor. It cannot possibly be right that we

:17:02. > :17:05.increasing the number of unelected Lords while at the same time

:17:06. > :17:17.decreasing the number of elected members. Mr Speaker, first of all I

:17:18. > :17:24.can say to the honourable gentleman that yes, Parliament will be kept

:17:25. > :17:30.fully informed at the appropriate times about the progress of the

:17:31. > :17:33.negotiations, though I think that the honourable gentleman will

:17:34. > :17:39.understand that if there is an ongoing negotiation, it would be

:17:40. > :17:44.foolish of any government of any political party to go into minute

:17:45. > :17:55.detail about how those negotiations were progressing because that would

:17:56. > :17:57.disadvantage this country in the progress of those negotiations. But

:17:58. > :18:02.the government will indeed report back at regular intervals and of

:18:03. > :18:07.course ministers will additionally be available to answer oral and

:18:08. > :18:13.written questions, and it is open to members to make application to Mr

:18:14. > :18:18.Speaker for urgent questions and debates if they feel the case is

:18:19. > :18:21.strong. I would say to the honourable gentleman, if you looks

:18:22. > :18:25.at the track record this week, on the first day back we had my right

:18:26. > :18:32.honourable friend the Secretary of State for exiting the European Union

:18:33. > :18:36.and questions about this matter for about two hours. Yesterday my right

:18:37. > :18:41.honourable friend the Prime Minister, in giving a statement

:18:42. > :18:44.about the G20 summit, in practice spends a lot of time responding to

:18:45. > :18:53.questions about the impact on the United Kingdom's International

:18:54. > :18:58.status in leaving the European Union, so I do not think he can

:18:59. > :19:04.claim to be short-changed this week. He referred to the report which is

:19:05. > :19:09.to be published at midday today by the joint committee of the Lords and

:19:10. > :19:15.Commons on the restoration and renewal project. That is a report

:19:16. > :19:23.which, like any select committee report, has been developed by the

:19:24. > :19:32.members concerned. The government has not had any input into that or

:19:33. > :19:39.any prior copies of the report sent to us so we could suddenly make

:19:40. > :19:48.comments before the announcement made today. Parliament will indeed

:19:49. > :19:51.have an opportunity to debate this before any decisions are taken.

:19:52. > :19:58.Decisions will be a matter for the House and the House of Lords about

:19:59. > :20:07.the future of the Palace. On the boundary changes, I say to him, the

:20:08. > :20:14.principle involved here is a quality of waiter votes. It really would be

:20:15. > :20:23.an affront to democracy if we went into an election in 2020 on the

:20:24. > :20:29.basis of electoral roll is based on a census to decades-old by that

:20:30. > :20:31.point, and we're some members were representing 100,000 electors and

:20:32. > :20:41.others representing significantly fewer than half that total. Thank

:20:42. > :20:43.you. I note that the Leader of the House has announced the second

:20:44. > :20:46.reading of the neighbourhood planning Bill, and I wonder whether

:20:47. > :20:48.he would comment on whether there would be enough time on matter

:20:49. > :20:53.whether he recommends a second debate on the local plan expert

:20:54. > :20:56.group which has come up with substantial and innovative

:20:57. > :21:03.recommendations to simplify the whole process, including

:21:04. > :21:05.neighbourhood planning. I think that there will be opportunity in the

:21:06. > :21:10.course of proceedings on the bill to have the kind of debate which he

:21:11. > :21:17.wants to see, but should he be dissatisfied there are opportunities

:21:18. > :21:21.available. Under half of the backbench business committee, can I

:21:22. > :21:26.say we welcome the opening of positive dialogue with the Leader of

:21:27. > :21:30.the House about the allocation of parliamentary business for backbench

:21:31. > :21:34.debates, and we welcome time sensitive subject applications. We

:21:35. > :21:38.had such an application at the committee on Tuesday, which is for

:21:39. > :21:50.during the week beginning the 10th of October. And that is an

:21:51. > :21:56.application from the member from Colchester, and I would support this

:21:57. > :22:01.because that week is baby loss week, and this debate is about baby loss,

:22:02. > :22:06.stillbirth and infant mortality in the first week of life. If he could

:22:07. > :22:12.find a slot during that week, we would be very appreciative. Indeed,

:22:13. > :22:18.he makes a powerful and persuasive point. I cannot make a promise

:22:19. > :22:23.today, but I will do my best to accommodate what he wants. Well and

:22:24. > :22:28.prison is a reserve prison and is not operating at the moment, and it

:22:29. > :22:34.is at the end of a large residential area. -- Wellingborough prison.

:22:35. > :22:37.Three days ago ten traveller families dumped themselves on the

:22:38. > :22:43.prison car park. The Ministry of Justice have tried their best to

:22:44. > :22:48.move them. It has become unacceptable to my constituents,

:22:49. > :22:51.particularly the ones living nearby. Could we have a statement next week

:22:52. > :22:59.on how the government deals with travellers who are on Crown

:23:00. > :23:02.property? There are number of us on all sides of the House where we have

:23:03. > :23:09.had this problem of unauthorised encampment upon privately owned or

:23:10. > :23:14.publicly owned land and local residents have become very

:23:15. > :23:20.distressed about that. I am sure the appropriate Minister will want to

:23:21. > :23:25.talk to my honourable friend about this particular case, but he might

:23:26. > :23:32.want to consider applying for an adjournment debate so he can discuss

:23:33. > :23:39.his views more fully and secure a detailed response from the Minister.

:23:40. > :23:43.The campaign for Better Transport has this week set out its concerns

:23:44. > :23:48.that the government's bus services Bill will have a huge impact on

:23:49. > :23:53.rural bus services. I regularly get complaints from constituents about

:23:54. > :23:56.the deterioration of their services, particularly in country areas,

:23:57. > :24:00.around Silloth and the Solway plain. Will he ensure that when the bill

:24:01. > :24:07.comes for debate in this House, there is proper time to discuss the

:24:08. > :24:11.impact on rural bus services? I'm sure there will be ample time to

:24:12. > :24:17.ensure we have those discussions which will be relevant to members

:24:18. > :24:22.across the House with rural constituencies. There are some real

:24:23. > :24:34.challenges in that many rural bus services to provide a vital lifeline

:24:35. > :24:37.which is quite a minority of people because the customer base shrinks

:24:38. > :24:40.but the services are also still important. I would hope that the

:24:41. > :24:46.debate encompasses things like the use of new technology to help

:24:47. > :24:52.provide community transport services which, in my constituency and

:24:53. > :24:59.others, are providing a very useful additional form of support to people

:25:00. > :25:05.living in villages. Could we have a debate on paediatric training in the

:25:06. > :25:07.NHS in England because in my constituency the children's

:25:08. > :25:12.emergency centre that County Hospital has been temporarily closed

:25:13. > :25:14.due to lack of sufficient trained staff, and I understand that I am

:25:15. > :25:22.not the only member of Parliament who has this problem in the

:25:23. > :25:26.constituency. I can understand, particularly given the history of

:25:27. > :25:30.hospital services in Staffordshire, via my honourable friend is so

:25:31. > :25:36.concerned, and he has been a very strong champion of patients in his

:25:37. > :25:40.constituency. I was sorry to hear what had happened. Obviously the

:25:41. > :25:43.local health authorities have taken the decision on grounds of patient

:25:44. > :25:52.safety, which clearly has to come first. I hope those local problems

:25:53. > :25:55.can be resolved as rapidly as possible and the government is

:25:56. > :25:59.certainly determined to continue to ensure that paediatric training

:26:00. > :26:05.standards are of the highest level possible. Can I take the opportunity

:26:06. > :26:07.to congratulate him on his appointment. In January the

:26:08. > :26:14.government announced welcome proposals for a partnership between

:26:15. > :26:18.the DFT and TEFL to specify franchises in London when an divine

:26:19. > :26:23.-- individual franchises lapse. How does the government take this

:26:24. > :26:29.forward in the months ahead? Thank you to the honourable gentleman for

:26:30. > :26:36.his welcome to me. I would draw his remarks to the attention of both the

:26:37. > :26:38.Minister for London and the appropriate Minister in the

:26:39. > :26:44.Department for Transport and ask one of them to make contact with him.

:26:45. > :26:50.I'm delighted at the importance of industrial strategy, now formally

:26:51. > :26:55.recognised, not least by being included in the title of a

:26:56. > :27:01.government department. Can we have a debate on its terms of reference,

:27:02. > :27:05.its aims and objectives? It sounds to me like this would be an

:27:06. > :27:10.excellent idea for my honourable friend to put forward to the

:27:11. > :27:14.gentleman opposite as the chairman of the backbench business committee.

:27:15. > :27:20.I'm sure my ministerial colleagues would welcome it, if such a debate

:27:21. > :27:24.was secured. The industrial strategy is going to be important for future

:27:25. > :27:31.prosperity in this country. It is important we have a strategy that

:27:32. > :27:33.works for all sectors of industry, particularly the new industry which

:27:34. > :27:37.will provide the growth and opportunity for the country in the

:27:38. > :27:43.future and that it is a strategy that works for all parts of the

:27:44. > :27:46.United Kingdom. Every single day in my constituency of Dundee I have low

:27:47. > :27:52.income workers getting in touch after the tax credit support, Rob

:27:53. > :27:59.Lee and without warning is stopped and HMRC payment by results model,

:28:00. > :28:05.in short, commission. It causes immense stress and hardship for

:28:06. > :28:09.households. 12% of all enquiries are about this very issue in my office.

:28:10. > :28:13.Will the House commit to an urgent debate on this matter before more

:28:14. > :28:22.people experience this harsh and brutal situation? Decisions about

:28:23. > :28:26.tax credits are not always what applicants want. It is very

:28:27. > :28:31.important. Every constituency MP would agree with the honourable

:28:32. > :28:34.gentleman, decisions are taken as promptly as possible and that they

:28:35. > :28:40.are accurate. He is right in saying people on low incomes are completely

:28:41. > :28:44.thrown if an application that is justified is suddenly either

:28:45. > :28:52.rejected, or there is an unjustifiable attempt to claw back

:28:53. > :28:56.money after the event. I will let the relevant Treasury Minister know

:28:57. > :29:03.about this particular point. It may be something he would like to seek a

:29:04. > :29:11.debate upon but I hope very much that the problems he has described

:29:12. > :29:13.will be resolved by HMRC and the contractor as rapidly as possible

:29:14. > :29:20.because constituents deserve a better service than that. To assist

:29:21. > :29:24.my honourable friend the leader of the House in the consideration of

:29:25. > :29:29.the Brexit process, I have an idea. I wonder if he could enlighten us as

:29:30. > :29:33.to the state of the discussions on the scrutiny by the select

:29:34. > :29:36.committees in the Brexit process? My perception is that it is clear that

:29:37. > :29:40.each department should have a select committee. We have two new

:29:41. > :29:45.departments and we should have two new select committees. Considering

:29:46. > :29:49.the complexity of the issue and the need for communities to be involved,

:29:50. > :29:53.it would help if we got going on the select committee as soon as possible

:29:54. > :29:57.and I wonder if he could help as I am sure the House would like to see

:29:58. > :30:02.this kind of scrutiny. I will do my best to help. These matters are

:30:03. > :30:07.subject to continued discussion between the usual channels. I think

:30:08. > :30:12.on anything related to the establishment of select committees,

:30:13. > :30:16.if it is humanly possible to have a cross-party agreement it is better

:30:17. > :30:23.we should achieve that. Thank you, Mr Speaker. There is a new and

:30:24. > :30:27.innovative charity established in my constituency to offer opportunities

:30:28. > :30:34.to people to get out and about in the outdoors in the Trossachs. Can

:30:35. > :30:40.we have a debate to explore how we can promote such excellent

:30:41. > :30:44.initiatives across the country? I think that is an excellent subject

:30:45. > :30:52.for the honourable gentleman to draw to the attention of DWP menaces at

:30:53. > :30:58.the next question Time will stop or for him to seek and add -- DWP at

:30:59. > :31:02.the next question Time. It seems to me the word should be spread and

:31:03. > :31:09.this could be an example in which we could copy. The next time we have a

:31:10. > :31:12.meaningful time to have debates will be in October. The government has

:31:13. > :31:18.given a lot of money to flood defences in the United Kingdom,

:31:19. > :31:21.another 12.5 million in Dover North. Can we have a statement from the

:31:22. > :31:26.Government about the future of flooding and flood defences. It

:31:27. > :31:30.affects the whole nation, not only see flooding, but internal flash

:31:31. > :31:37.flooding, and this has to have a continued debate in this chamber. My

:31:38. > :31:41.honourable friend raises an important point and of course I will

:31:42. > :31:46.recall his constituency was very badly affected by floods a couple of

:31:47. > :31:54.years ago. And he was the most fearless and outspoken champion of

:31:55. > :31:59.his constituents at that time. Coincidentally there has been a

:32:00. > :32:07.report published earlier today by Deborah on flooding and the future

:32:08. > :32:10.25 year plan for flood resilience. -- by the Department. I urge all

:32:11. > :32:16.members of the House to take an interest in this matter to study the

:32:17. > :32:18.report. It has a number of important conclusions and also proposals on

:32:19. > :32:23.how the Government will take things forward into the future. I notice

:32:24. > :32:26.request for a debate. Clearly I cannot promise that at the moment

:32:27. > :32:32.but I understand the subject's importance. On the 19th of August a

:32:33. > :32:38.faulty tumble dryer caused a major fire in Shepherd scored, and damaged

:32:39. > :32:42.a major block of flats. 26 families had to move out and it was a miracle

:32:43. > :32:46.there were no deaths, or serious injury. There are 1 million for the

:32:47. > :32:51.products not being recalled by the manufacturer. Can we have eight

:32:52. > :32:55.government statement on how many factors can be made to recall and

:32:56. > :33:03.replace faulty white goods as demanded by the London Fire Brigade

:33:04. > :33:08.total recall campaign? I think if there is a question in my mind about

:33:09. > :33:13.the legal position, if goods have indeed been sold that are

:33:14. > :33:19.demonstrably a threat to the safety of those customers, I would hope

:33:20. > :33:24.that if a situation like the one he described, the manufacturer should

:33:25. > :33:32.take note of his remarks and act accordingly. I shall ask the

:33:33. > :33:35.relevant Minister to have a look at the particular case. If you would

:33:36. > :33:39.like to write to me with the details I will happily passed those onto the

:33:40. > :33:47.relevant department and let's see if we can get appropriate action. I

:33:48. > :33:50.have a familiar question for my honourable friend as one of the

:33:51. > :33:54.longest serving Europe ministers. Can we have a statement after the

:33:55. > :34:00.new minister's visit to Cyprus, which coincides with three meetings

:34:01. > :34:03.taking place this week between the city and leaders and the president

:34:04. > :34:10.saying the end of the road has been reached and it is time to reunite

:34:11. > :34:18.Cyprus? I know that my right honourable friend, the member for

:34:19. > :34:21.Rutland and Melton would be delighted to talk to the member for

:34:22. > :34:27.Southgate about his recent visit to the island full stop I am sure all

:34:28. > :34:33.of us across the Florida house --. I am sure everyone in the House would

:34:34. > :34:36.like to see the country reunited and the Turkish and Cypriot communities

:34:37. > :34:41.brought together again. That would be a good day for the United

:34:42. > :34:44.Kingdom. I think there will be an opportunity to raise this at the

:34:45. > :34:48.next foreign office questions. I think a conversation between my

:34:49. > :34:54.honourable friend and the Minister is probably the best way forward.

:34:55. > :34:58.Yesterday, the BBC reported that Katrina Percy, the former Chief

:34:59. > :35:05.Executive of the sudden health trust, which has been investigated

:35:06. > :35:11.because of a lack of investigation into unexplained death at the trust

:35:12. > :35:16.had resigned from a post but was then shunted into a ?240,000 per

:35:17. > :35:23.year job created just for her with no other candidates. -- Sutton

:35:24. > :35:30.health trust. Can we have a debate about this very worrying decision?

:35:31. > :35:34.My understanding is that this was an appointment which was wholly within

:35:35. > :35:42.the jurisdiction of the local board of the relevant NHS trust and it is

:35:43. > :35:47.a decision which that board therefore needs to explain and for

:35:48. > :35:53.which they are accountable. Health provision is very important to all

:35:54. > :35:58.constituencies. With an ageing population and acute health needs.

:35:59. > :36:03.Given that, can we have a debate in government time about the NHS in the

:36:04. > :36:09.West Midlands and in particular mergers of CCG and NHS trusts

:36:10. > :36:13.serving my constituency? My honourable friend raises an

:36:14. > :36:16.important point. He is already in his first year in this House

:36:17. > :36:21.building up a reputation as somebody who really does stand up for good

:36:22. > :36:27.health services and the interest of patients in the West Midlands. He

:36:28. > :36:30.will have an opportunity on Tuesday the 11th of October when we have

:36:31. > :36:37.health questions to make some of these points to the ministerial

:36:38. > :36:43.team. The communities act application by new Council to

:36:44. > :36:45.control fixed odds betting terminals alongside 92 other councils which

:36:46. > :36:52.represent 42% of the population in England and were expired on the 14th

:36:53. > :36:54.of July. That act says the Government has to compromise with

:36:55. > :37:00.the negotiations and no debate has taken place. When will we get a

:37:01. > :37:06.statement on this important issue for a huge proportion of the

:37:07. > :37:11.country? I will ask the responsible minister to write to the honourable

:37:12. > :37:14.gentleman about that point. Can my right honourable friend arrange for

:37:15. > :37:20.the attorney general to make a statement about appealing against an

:37:21. > :37:27.Julie lenient sentences? A number of people in my constituents felt the

:37:28. > :37:32.sentence given to Anjem Choudary was derisory given the serious level of

:37:33. > :37:36.the offences he had committed. We found out today in the newspapers

:37:37. > :37:40.that the attorney general is not able to appeal against a lenient

:37:41. > :37:44.sentence for that particular crime. We promised in the manifesto to

:37:45. > :37:50.extend the number of crimes that could be appealed for being lenient

:37:51. > :37:56.in sentencing. When are we going to crack on with it? As he pointed out,

:37:57. > :38:03.big and was elected on a manifesto which pledged us to extend the list

:38:04. > :38:07.of crimes that were covered by the right of the attorney general to

:38:08. > :38:16.refer excessively lenient sentences to the Court of appeal. -- the

:38:17. > :38:18.Government was elected. Either the attorney or relevant justice

:38:19. > :38:28.minister will come forward with a statement to the House will stop the

:38:29. > :38:32.petitions --. The committee has agreed on a Parliamentary debate on

:38:33. > :38:37.grouse shooting after the session and there is a debate about the

:38:38. > :38:40.badger culling and I am sure we will reach the 100,000 required. When we

:38:41. > :38:44.had a debate on Westminster Hall this week, more than 40 MPs attended

:38:45. > :38:48.and a lotta people wanted to watch the debate but could not fit into

:38:49. > :38:52.the public gallery. Can we make sure that both of these debates are in

:38:53. > :39:00.the main chamber so people can come and watch and there is time for MPs

:39:01. > :39:08.to take part? There is always a pressure which government must

:39:09. > :39:10.wrestle with and there is also, the backbench business committee must

:39:11. > :39:13.wrestle with which matters are debated in Westminster Hall and

:39:14. > :39:21.which matters are debated in the chamber. She will have an additional

:39:22. > :39:23.opportunity on Thursday the 13th of October, when ministers from

:39:24. > :39:29.environment, food and rural affairs will be answering questions here. I

:39:30. > :39:32.know the leader of the House is very aware of the anxiety caused in Corby

:39:33. > :39:37.aroused the discussions ongoing about the future of the steel

:39:38. > :39:39.industry. Can we have a statement next week from ministers updating us

:39:40. > :39:45.on where we are with these discussions with the industry, the

:39:46. > :39:50.department and unions, so my constituents can be updated as to

:39:51. > :39:55.exactly where we are? I will make sure that the business secretary and

:39:56. > :40:01.the international trade secretary are aware of my friend's concerns. I

:40:02. > :40:08.understand the importance of the steel issue is for his constituents

:40:09. > :40:17.in Corby. The Prime Minister said in her statement on the G20 yesterday

:40:18. > :40:20.that she had raised the question of overproduction on global markets in

:40:21. > :40:27.the plenary session of the G20 leaders when she had been in China.

:40:28. > :40:37.And she hoped that would lead to the international powers considering a

:40:38. > :40:43.way forward to manage this. The leader of the House is very popular

:40:44. > :40:48.in my constituency. And I have been asked to ask this question, whether

:40:49. > :40:53.they voted for Brexit or to Remain, if this is a sovereign Parliament,

:40:54. > :40:56.why did they concede the deal and why has a sovereign Parliament can

:40:57. > :40:59.we not have a vote? Because they love him so much they would like a

:41:00. > :41:04.debate on the closure of accident and emergency in Huddersfield and

:41:05. > :41:11.with the landfill tax going up to ?85 across West Yorkshire, we are

:41:12. > :41:16.getting fires and unscrupulous waste contractors are setting fire to

:41:17. > :41:22.waste in order to save money, can we have debates on all of those

:41:23. > :41:30.subjects? I think all the waste management question he will have the

:41:31. > :41:34.opportunity at questions on the 13th of October. On the local health

:41:35. > :41:36.issue there are questions on Tuesday the 11th of October to the health

:41:37. > :41:47.ministers. As someone who the House knows was

:41:48. > :41:50.on the Remain side of the campaign, if we are Democrats, however

:41:51. > :41:55.reluctantly, to accept the result. If the result had been the other way

:41:56. > :41:59.round, I would have been the first to say to my colleagues supporting

:42:00. > :42:02.the leave campaign that it was time to fold up their tent. We have to

:42:03. > :42:12.respect the view that the electors have taken. As I am sure the whole

:42:13. > :42:19.House will be aware, the world black pudding throwing Championships are

:42:20. > :42:24.taking place in Ramsbottom in my constituency this weekend. It dates

:42:25. > :42:28.back to the War of the Roses. Can we please have a statement on what the

:42:29. > :42:35.government will be doing to promote this prestigious and historic event

:42:36. > :42:39.in the future? For a moment I thought he was going to propose this

:42:40. > :42:48.as an experimental support for the Tokyo Olympics and for -- in four

:42:49. > :42:54.years. I think he has made his point very forcefully, as usual today. I

:42:55. > :43:02.hope he gets the chance to sample the black puddings before they are

:43:03. > :43:16.thrown, rather than afterwords. Does giving evidence, -- when giving

:43:17. > :43:25.evidence, the predecessor offered to come to my constituency to discuss

:43:26. > :43:28.English votes for English laws, much to the disappointment of my

:43:29. > :43:32.constituents. Will the new Leader of the House visit my constituency to

:43:33. > :43:42.discuss this with my constituents in his place? Just say yes!

:43:43. > :43:51.LAUGHTER It is a delight to have such a tempting offer.

:43:52. > :43:53.Her constituency like many others in Scotland contains vibrant

:43:54. > :44:01.communities and absolutely wonderful landscapes. But while I would hope

:44:02. > :44:05.to be able to visit North Ayrshire at some stage in the future, I

:44:06. > :44:11.cannot give a firm diary commitment at the moment. I welcome the

:44:12. > :44:15.statement that there will be a debate on the government's Tobacco

:44:16. > :44:21.control programme. The issue at hand is that the control programme that

:44:22. > :44:27.was running for five years has expired, and we were promised a

:44:28. > :44:31.replacement in the summer of 2016. I realise the summer stretches into

:44:32. > :44:36.the autumn, but we still do not have the new programme published. The

:44:37. > :44:40.government has met the targets it set itself under the five-year

:44:41. > :44:45.programme, but during that debate can my right honourable friend make

:44:46. > :44:50.sure that the Minister announces the date for publication and that it is

:44:51. > :44:53.announced in this place? I will make sure the Minister knows, my

:44:54. > :44:57.honourable friend will have an opportunity not just to take part in

:44:58. > :45:02.the back bends business debate -- backbench business debate, but in

:45:03. > :45:07.the debate on the 11th of October. When will members of the House now

:45:08. > :45:15.when they can elect the chairs of the select committees? I hope as

:45:16. > :45:17.soon as possible. Obviously after this week we have to provide for an

:45:18. > :45:30.additional select committee But I hope this is not delayed

:45:31. > :45:35.indefinitely. Will the Leader of the House look again at the time

:45:36. > :45:38.allocated for the development of international trade. I do not think

:45:39. > :45:41.the leader was in his place this morning when we had half an hour for

:45:42. > :45:47.questions to the culture department then half an hour regarding the

:45:48. > :45:51.international trade Department. There are almost 50 questions listed

:45:52. > :45:56.on the order paper for a one-hour period, whereas a normal one-hour

:45:57. > :45:59.slot would only have about 35. Despite his huge experience, the

:46:00. > :46:05.Speaker had to make heroic efforts to try to squeeze everyone in, and

:46:06. > :46:11.even then it overran by ten minutes. Surely we can do better than this,

:46:12. > :46:18.given the importance of international trade post Brexit? I

:46:19. > :46:25.will look at what experience tells us of the new roster for oral

:46:26. > :46:29.questions and if the House needs to be asked to review this again then

:46:30. > :46:34.we will do that. I think that will be very welcome in the House. The

:46:35. > :46:40.danger otherwise is that there is a recipe for disappointment. There is

:46:41. > :46:44.always unsatisfied demand, but it was very, very striking this

:46:45. > :46:54.morning. Huge numbers and a lot were disappointed. I have also been

:46:55. > :46:57.contacted by hundreds of single women over the summer who have been

:46:58. > :47:04.affected by the behaviour of concentric. I received a written

:47:05. > :47:08.parliamentary answer yesterday to see the contractor had breached its

:47:09. > :47:12.performance standards on 120 occasions over the last 11 months.

:47:13. > :47:18.Can we have an urgent debate about the behaviour and performance of

:47:19. > :47:27.this contract so it cannot punish individuals and particularly single

:47:28. > :47:29.women for another day? Clearly the number of contract breaches she has

:47:30. > :47:37.described is completely unacceptable. I think that she might

:47:38. > :47:42.want to write to the financial Secretary is probably the right

:47:43. > :47:46.minister at the Secretary to make sure the concerns are being directed

:47:47. > :47:50.correctly to the ministers dealing with HMRC, but it seems to me that

:47:51. > :47:57.it is the responsibility of the HMRC senior management to manage their

:47:58. > :48:00.contract effectively and for the contractor to deliver rant delivered

:48:01. > :48:17.a decent service to her constituents and everyone else's. -- to deliver a

:48:18. > :48:21.decent service. The decision by southern health was greeted with a

:48:22. > :48:30.fit of apoplexy in my constituency, but can we have a debate on the

:48:31. > :48:33.scandalous and enduring and read duopoly of the wholesale newspaper

:48:34. > :48:43.distribution market and the disastrous consequences this has for

:48:44. > :48:50.independent retailers? My honourable friend is obviously returning with

:48:51. > :48:53.relish and energy to his new role as a backbench champion, particularly

:48:54. > :49:01.for small retailers in his constituency. I am sure he knows the

:49:02. > :49:05.ropes well enough to know that an adjournment debates might well be

:49:06. > :49:14.the opportunity to discuss these concerns further. I was recently

:49:15. > :49:19.contacted by a constituent when she discovered her energy account had a

:49:20. > :49:22.standing charge of 14p per day higher than other constituents. Aeon

:49:23. > :49:28.tell me that they are entitled to charge a higher rate for those who

:49:29. > :49:41.do not pay their accounts by direct debit, but this

:49:42. > :49:46.amounts to... -- E.on. The way forward would be for the honourable

:49:47. > :49:55.gentleman to see if he could catch the eye of the Speaker for business

:49:56. > :49:59.energy questions and he could put those points to the ministers. Mayor

:50:00. > :50:04.also strongly endorse what was said by the honourable member for Heywood

:50:05. > :50:09.and Middleton, and my right honourable friend for New Forest

:50:10. > :50:13.West about the extraordinary decision of the southern health

:50:14. > :50:16.trust to create a host with a salary greater than that of the Prime

:50:17. > :50:22.Minister to accommodate someone whose position as Chief Executive

:50:23. > :50:27.had become untenable, but may I ask for a ministerial statement on the

:50:28. > :50:31.plight of Afghan and other former interpreters for British Armed

:50:32. > :50:38.Forces in hostile environments who have applied for but not yet been

:50:39. > :50:41.given asylum in this country? This is not only a debt of honour but

:50:42. > :50:46.something that is necessary for the future functioning of British troops

:50:47. > :50:53.in hostile environments when we are greatly dependent upon indigenous

:50:54. > :50:59.interpreters. He raises an important point. Clearly it is a very

:51:00. > :51:04.important principle that asylum decisions are all taken on the

:51:05. > :51:11.merits of each particular case, and that is true of applications of

:51:12. > :51:16.former interpreters as well as everyone else. But the Ministry of

:51:17. > :51:22.Defence and the Home Office continue to review the overall situation in

:51:23. > :51:31.order to ensure that we are providing protection to people who

:51:32. > :51:35.have helped to protect us, -- to protect us. My right honourable

:51:36. > :51:39.friend will be pleased to know that on Monday the 12th of September,

:51:40. > :51:43.next week, we have defence questions, which may be something he

:51:44. > :51:49.wishes to raise with defence ministers Ben. May we have a

:51:50. > :51:55.statement on reports that emerged over the summer that the government

:51:56. > :52:12.equalities office has awarded G4S the contract to deliver the helpline

:52:13. > :52:16.. The matter is urgent, I understand the contract is due to take effect

:52:17. > :52:19.from the 1st of October, so could the leader make a statement on the

:52:20. > :52:26.subject next week, as people have expressed concern at G4S providing

:52:27. > :52:29.public services? I will draw the concern to the attention of the

:52:30. > :52:36.relevant Minister dealing with the government office for the qualities.

:52:37. > :52:40.Parliamentary scrutiny of Sports Direct has helped employees get a

:52:41. > :52:47.better deal from a rogue employer. May we have a debate on a good

:52:48. > :52:51.increase in the minimum wage leading some employers to cut back terms and

:52:52. > :52:59.conditions further staff, leading to a net reduction in pay? That cannot

:53:00. > :53:02.be right. Badge for your staff. It is not right, but I would have hoped

:53:03. > :53:05.that the honourable gentleman would have acknowledged that by setting

:53:06. > :53:10.the first-ever national living wage it is this government that has

:53:11. > :53:14.lifted considerably the minimum levels of pay that the low paid

:53:15. > :53:22.employers can no expect around the country. -- can now expect. The

:53:23. > :53:28.honourable member for North the Beds asked what progress has been made

:53:29. > :53:31.for setting up select committees to scrutinise the new departments of

:53:32. > :53:33.exiting the European Union and the new Department of International

:53:34. > :53:37.trade, and he said discussions are ongoing. When we get back on the

:53:38. > :53:41.10th of October, it will be more than 3.5 months since the

:53:42. > :53:44.referendum. We have had very little detail this week of what is actually

:53:45. > :53:49.proposed by the government. I am sure that lots of other honourable

:53:50. > :53:54.members are inundated with requests about what the government are going

:53:55. > :53:58.to do in light of the vote. Can he guarantee that when we return here

:53:59. > :54:02.on the 10th of October, the select committees will be a position to get

:54:03. > :54:07.up and running and scrutinise these departments to try to get the

:54:08. > :54:10.answers we have not had this week? I very much want that to be the

:54:11. > :54:12.position, I hope the ongoing discussions through the usual

:54:13. > :54:21.channels have a successful outcome soon. Can we have a debate on the

:54:22. > :54:24.performance of South-eastern Trains. The government has put ?20 million

:54:25. > :54:28.into trying to sort out the mess of suburban trains. But my constituents

:54:29. > :54:32.are suffering equally because of the poor performance of this company

:54:33. > :54:34.behaving like they have one foot out of the door because they can see the

:54:35. > :54:52.prospect of TEFL taking over the franchise. -- TfL. He will have the

:54:53. > :55:00.opportunity to raise this with Transport Minister is next week. One

:55:01. > :55:10.of my constituents is waiting for a decision from the DW P regarding his

:55:11. > :55:13.condition. On the 12th of January I was advised a decision whether or

:55:14. > :55:16.not to add this to the list of prescribed diseases will be made

:55:17. > :55:21.early this year. As we are still waiting, can we have a ministerial

:55:22. > :55:29.statement to explain this delay and bring these deliberations to a

:55:30. > :55:35.conclusion? I will draw that matter to the attention of DWP ministers

:55:36. > :55:42.because whatever the decision is to be, the sooner that people know the

:55:43. > :55:45.outcome, the better. The Leader of the House and I have something in

:55:46. > :55:51.common, in that we were both 1's contestants on University challenge.

:55:52. > :55:56.If we were able to have a debate on enhancing democracy, how would he

:55:57. > :56:01.answer this starter for ten, under what school for logic do you enhance

:56:02. > :56:06.democracy by cutting the number of elected politicians and increasing

:56:07. > :56:14.the number of unelected peers? I said to him earlier, I wish I had

:56:15. > :56:21.been the consensus that was absent about the House of Lords, but we are

:56:22. > :56:24.where we are on that, and I doubt the opinion of the House of Commons

:56:25. > :56:29.has changed all that much since we have been -- had to be aborted

:56:30. > :56:36.attempt at reform. I think the answer to him as that he really

:56:37. > :56:44.cannot evade the central point, that we are now operating on electoral

:56:45. > :56:47.registers based on a census taken in 2001. It is now very out of date,

:56:48. > :56:54.given population changes that have taken place, and it is also just

:56:55. > :57:01.plainly wrong to continue with a situation in which constituency

:57:02. > :57:05.electorates are of such disparate sizes which means there is gross

:57:06. > :57:10.inequality between the weight of votes of individual electors.

:57:11. > :57:23.In June of this year, one of my constituents was killed because of a

:57:24. > :57:28.gas blow out at a minus. In August, a contract worker was electrocuted

:57:29. > :57:31.doing service work at the same mind. Back in April, 11 miners escaped

:57:32. > :57:38.with their lives after oxygen ran out. The mining has been

:57:39. > :57:44.investigated over the past 12 months. Those 11 miners, some of

:57:45. > :57:47.which have had to return to work with post-traumatic stress disorder,

:57:48. > :57:53.due to the fact the sick pay is not enough to cover the costs of feeding

:57:54. > :57:56.a wife and children... Can we have a debate in relation to health and

:57:57. > :58:00.safety work and locations of workers having to return to work because

:58:01. > :58:05.sick pay is not adequate enough, when companies have accepted

:58:06. > :58:10.liability? I am grateful to the honourable gentleman to -- for

:58:11. > :58:14.bringing a serious matter to my attention. I want to express my

:58:15. > :58:17.sympathy with those of his constituents who have gone through

:58:18. > :58:26.this horrific experience and also their families. What he raises

:58:27. > :58:34.crosses the border between the Department of business and energy

:58:35. > :58:39.and the DWP in respect of benefits. What I will do is I will draw this

:58:40. > :58:42.question to the attention of ministers in both departments. He

:58:43. > :58:47.might also like to raise this ad business and energy questions when

:58:48. > :58:49.it comes macro up. Or seek an adjournment debate so there can be a

:58:50. > :58:59.consolidated ministerial response across government addressing these

:59:00. > :59:06.concerns. Three people a day die due to a shortage of transplantable

:59:07. > :59:10.organs. Earlier this week a quadruple amputee poses -- pose nude

:59:11. > :59:22.with her body displaying transplantable organs.

:59:23. > :59:27.The honourable gentleman has used today's opportunity well to

:59:28. > :59:37.highlight his support for organ donation. I know constituents who

:59:38. > :59:45.have been given not only a longer life, but a life of unexpectedly

:59:46. > :59:50.improved quality because of a successful organ transplant. I am

:59:51. > :59:56.sure that he can find many ways in which to highlight this matter

:59:57. > :00:06.during Parliamentary proceedings. Order. We will come to the

:00:07. > :00:12.honourable gentleman in due course. Point of order. Can you advise me

:00:13. > :00:16.how best I can bring my concerns to the attentions of the House in

:00:17. > :00:19.relation to the boundary review and House of Lords reform? It seems

:00:20. > :00:23.perverse to reduce the number of elected representatives in this

:00:24. > :00:29.place, while the Lords continues to gorge itself on new arrivals. Mr

:00:30. > :00:33.Speaker, I believe in an appointed other House but not at the current

:00:34. > :00:38.price and not at the expense of this elected and therefore accountable

:00:39. > :00:41.chamber. Mr Speaker, we in this place must guard against bringing

:00:42. > :00:51.this country's democratic settlement into disrepute.

:00:52. > :00:56.Is it further to that? Let's here from the honourable member from

:00:57. > :01:00.Shipley and I will respond to both. I absolutely endorse everything my

:01:01. > :01:03.honourable friend has just said. In addition, we have a situation

:01:04. > :01:08.whereby the government are proposing to reduce the number of MPs by 50,

:01:09. > :01:11.but not reduce the number of ministers by an equal proportion,

:01:12. > :01:15.thereby giving the government more control over the House of Commons,

:01:16. > :01:19.which clearly has to be an outrage. That is something that needs to be

:01:20. > :01:23.considered in conjunction with the points raised by my honourable

:01:24. > :01:29.friend. I'm grateful to both honourable members are raising the

:01:30. > :01:33.points of order. Let me deal with each intern. In relation to the

:01:34. > :01:37.point of order from the honourable gentleman from who is the

:01:38. > :01:43.illustrious chair of the procedure committee of the House, I remind

:01:44. > :01:47.colleagues that the honourable gentleman asked the chair by what

:01:48. > :01:51.means he can register his concern. As the honourable gentleman knows,

:01:52. > :01:56.because he is sagacious, he has found his own salvation. He made his

:01:57. > :02:00.own point with his own inimitable aliquots and it is on the record. I

:02:01. > :02:07.know how strongly feels about it. -- eloquence. These matters would

:02:08. > :02:13.totally be further debated. Secondly, in relation to the

:02:14. > :02:19.honourable member from Shipley, I note the force of his point about

:02:20. > :02:23.reductions in numbers of MPs. Needing, as he sees it, to be

:02:24. > :02:31.accompanied by reductions in the number of ministers. The honourable

:02:32. > :02:34.gentleman has got such a long established good memory for what

:02:35. > :02:38.people have said in the past, that I feel sure that although he did not

:02:39. > :02:45.say it today, he will be well aware that I myself expatriated on this

:02:46. > :02:49.matter on the 19th of January, 2011, in a lecture on the Institute to

:02:50. > :02:53.government. On that occasion I made the point it would be a rum business

:02:54. > :02:59.to reduce the number of MPs but not to cut the number of ministers. I

:03:00. > :03:03.Therefore I am very happy to say it Therefore I am very happy to say it

:03:04. > :03:12.again five and a half years later and to be write a second time. -- to

:03:13. > :03:14.be correct. I am not sure either of them were a point of order but they

:03:15. > :03:21.were jolly good fun. Point of order, Kerry McCarthy.

:03:22. > :03:23.Yesterday I asked what recent progress has been made on the

:03:24. > :03:30.national flood resilience review. We didn't reach question 12. I received

:03:31. > :03:34.a written response later that day which said the review has been

:03:35. > :03:37.assessing how England could be better protected from flooding and

:03:38. > :03:40.extreme rainfall. The review has been working to identify actions

:03:41. > :03:44.needed to strengthen our resilience to flooding. That is one of those

:03:45. > :03:47.answers that tells you absolutely nothing. To my surprise, this

:03:48. > :03:52.morning, we had a written ministerial statement and a hefty

:03:53. > :03:57.document published. The written statement, although it is for the

:03:58. > :04:03.Secretary of State, is in the joint names of her and the Cabinet office

:04:04. > :04:08.minister. Is it not at the very least extremely discourteous to not

:04:09. > :04:12.flag it up yesterday? Or does it suggest the Cabinet office minister

:04:13. > :04:16.was not aware he was about to publish this review? It would be

:04:17. > :04:19.rather disturbing, it has to be said, if a minister of the Cabinet

:04:20. > :04:26.office were unaware of the imminent publication in his or a colleague's

:04:27. > :04:30.name of such a report. I find that very hard to credit. I think what I

:04:31. > :04:34.would say to the honourable lady is that it may be regarded as

:04:35. > :04:39.discourteous. That is a matter of opinion to some extent. What I can

:04:40. > :04:44.safely say is that it was, at the very least, unhelpful. There is a

:04:45. > :04:49.general principle that ministerial answers should be as informative as

:04:50. > :04:53.possible. It was unhelpful. I think I can say, possibly at the risk of

:04:54. > :04:57.irritating the Cabinet office minister, which I will have to bear

:04:58. > :05:03.with stoicism and fortitude, at the very least it was extremely

:05:04. > :05:07.unimaginative of the minister and string not to consider providing

:05:08. > :05:12.more information, or alternatively to consider and then to decline.

:05:13. > :05:19.Very unsatisfactory. We really ought to be able to do better than that.

:05:20. > :05:23.The great thing we have on our side, the new leader of the House, and

:05:24. > :05:32.this was flagged up in a moment ago, is of course, I think twice a winner

:05:33. > :05:38.on University challenge, with a gap of 30 years in between. It used to

:05:39. > :05:42.be said that the honourable gentleman, the member for haven't in

:05:43. > :05:49.the last Parliament, was two brains. I leave colleagues to speculate or

:05:50. > :05:52.indeed to compute how many brains the leader of the House has. He is a

:05:53. > :05:56.very cerebrovascular. I am sure that he can spawn more imaginative

:05:57. > :06:03.thinking among his ministerial colleagues. -- so readable. Point of

:06:04. > :06:07.order, Kevin Brennan. May I point out in all modesty that

:06:08. > :06:15.I was also twice a winner on University challenge.

:06:16. > :06:19.I must admit, I didn't know that. But I do now and I promise not to

:06:20. > :06:26.forget it. Point of order, Kerry McCarthy. I

:06:27. > :06:34.was on the first-ever season of blockbusters!

:06:35. > :06:41.The honourable lady has made the best case that she can. We thank her

:06:42. > :06:44.for that. Now, a point of order, chair of the Foreign Affairs Select

:06:45. > :06:48.Committee, Mr Crispin Blunt. This is pursuant to the point of

:06:49. > :06:51.order yesterday where there has been a further development increasing its

:06:52. > :06:56.seriousness, which you acknowledged yesterday. On Monday, the Guardian

:06:57. > :06:59.reported the central recommendation of a draft report being put to a

:07:00. > :07:04.committee on arms export control. The meeting to consider this was

:07:05. > :07:07.held yesterday in private. On Tuesday, Newsnight produced excerpts

:07:08. > :07:11.of the text of the draft report, which was the subject of the

:07:12. > :07:15.honourable member for Rhondda's point of order. Yesterday the

:07:16. > :07:19.committee met and resolved to report the matter to the liaison committee,

:07:20. > :07:22.who will have to consider the matter and decide whether it should be

:07:23. > :07:25.referred to the privileges committee, who will then decide

:07:26. > :07:29.whether and how to pursue the matter. Subsequent to that, last

:07:30. > :07:34.night, Newsnight reported extracts of the amendments tabled by the

:07:35. > :07:38.right Honourable member for Wardley and myself, which can only have come

:07:39. > :07:43.from the Consolidated list of amendments which was circulated to

:07:44. > :07:48.members of the committee on Tuesday. Sagbo -- separately, the Guardian

:07:49. > :07:53.today reported the number of amendments we had tabled to the

:07:54. > :07:57.report, which was not reported on Newsnight. On Newsnight, they chose

:07:58. > :08:03.to contextualise the amendments put by my right honourable friend and I

:08:04. > :08:06.in light of our previous membership of the all-party group for Saudi

:08:07. > :08:10.Arabia, and work I had done in the Middle East 12 years ago. And the

:08:11. > :08:16.right honourable gentleman's record in supporting the employment

:08:17. > :08:19.provided by the British defence industry. They emphasised none of

:08:20. > :08:24.this was improper but it gives you a sense of where people stand. In

:08:25. > :08:29.parallel to this, members of the committee received somewhere between

:08:30. > :08:36.1500 and 2000 e-mails on Tuesday and overnight, which appear to have been

:08:37. > :08:39.organised on someone's behalf by a self-styled global citizens

:08:40. > :08:42.movement, where the committee was meeting to consider this issue. The

:08:43. > :08:47.Right honourable gentleman from Warley West believes one was from a

:08:48. > :08:50.constituent. My office did not identify any constituents before

:08:51. > :08:59.calling the organisation inviting them to desist. This relates to a

:09:00. > :09:03.case on a deliberate campaign to influence the committee, relying on

:09:04. > :09:06.information provided by a member of this House or their staff.

:09:07. > :09:11.Conceivably it could have gone from committee staff but I think that is

:09:12. > :09:14.highly unlikely. I cannot recall an example of such deliberate and

:09:15. > :09:19.repeated leaking of information in our time in the House. Would you

:09:20. > :09:25.confirm that it would not be open to the privileges committee to calling

:09:26. > :09:28.the police as this in the -- this is not a criminal matter, but they

:09:29. > :09:31.would be able to call on the services of private investigators to

:09:32. > :09:37.have the capacity to interrogate electronic rebels, including deleted

:09:38. > :09:43.e-mails, of potential sources of this confidential and private

:09:44. > :09:48.consideration of select committees in this instance involving life and

:09:49. > :09:52.death issues and the employment of tens of thousands of our citizens?

:09:53. > :09:55.Could you encourage the liaison committee to consider this as a

:09:56. > :09:59.matter of urgency and confirming your view of the seriousness of this

:10:00. > :10:08.attempt to undermine the work of select committees?

:10:09. > :10:11.Point of order, Doctor Julian Lewis. Mr Speaker, I participated only in

:10:12. > :10:15.two meetings of that committee because three other members of the

:10:16. > :10:21.Defence Commitee have been nominated as a regular attenders. I have total

:10:22. > :10:24.confidence in them. Can I express disquiet at something I did learn

:10:25. > :10:30.only yesterday, which was that this draft report, which is very one

:10:31. > :10:35.sided, was produced without any heads of report discussion prior to

:10:36. > :10:39.the drafting of the report, which means there was no opportunity for

:10:40. > :10:44.members of the committee who dissented from the thrust of this

:10:45. > :10:50.report to raise their objections and to try and reach a consensus before

:10:51. > :10:55.a draft report was produced, and thus was leaked in a very

:10:56. > :10:59.sensational way. I have to say, from someone who has been at one remove

:11:00. > :11:01.from the operation of this committee, that something went

:11:02. > :11:06.terribly wrong with the procedures because they shouldn't be room for a

:11:07. > :11:10.consensus to have been built before any such one-sided report was

:11:11. > :11:14.leaked. I say that as someone highly critical of Saudi Arabia myself and

:11:15. > :11:19.in some sympathy with some of the arguments in the draft.

:11:20. > :11:32.With respect to what he has just said, I am intimately conscious that

:11:33. > :11:38.I cannot and shouldn't intervene in all pronounced overlay on the way in

:11:39. > :11:44.which select committees of the House conduct their affairs. From my own

:11:45. > :11:48.past experience as a member of several select committees before

:11:49. > :11:53.being elected to the chair, it was certainly mine normal and satisfied

:11:54. > :11:57.expectation that, before a draft report was produced, there would be

:11:58. > :12:05.a period of considerable discussion by the committee, not only about

:12:06. > :12:12.track to headings -- chapter headings but more so than about the

:12:13. > :12:15.direction of travel which they could partake in on the first draft. It

:12:16. > :12:24.would be member led rather than chair decreed, still less official

:12:25. > :12:28.determined. I understand the sense of thanks to which he has conveyed

:12:29. > :12:33.in a reasonable, balanced way. I think colleagues would do well to

:12:34. > :12:37.consider what he has said. More widely, I would say this. If

:12:38. > :12:42.colleagues want to come back, they will. The committees on arms export

:12:43. > :12:48.controls carry out extremely valuable work. To do this, they do

:12:49. > :12:53.rely on the corporation and consensus of the chairs and members

:12:54. > :12:59.of four select committees. I very much hope that this corporation can

:13:00. > :13:00.be maintained. So that the House can benefit from their important work.

:13:01. > :13:13.-- Corporation. There has been focused on the matter

:13:14. > :13:19.of the leak and what might flow from that. Let me say this. It is for the

:13:20. > :13:22.committees concerned to investigate the cause of the apparently, to

:13:23. > :13:27.decide whether or not it constitutes a substantial interference with

:13:28. > :13:32.their work, a matter on which other members who were not on the

:13:33. > :13:39.committee might also have a view, and to inform the liaison committee

:13:40. > :13:47.in the process seeking its use. Thereafter, it would be sensible to

:13:48. > :13:52.decide whether to make a special report which would stand referred to

:13:53. > :13:57.the committee of privileges. When the honourable gentleman asks me

:13:58. > :14:02.about the use of Private investigators, I can say only that I

:14:03. > :14:05.don't know whether that would be effective in this instance, although

:14:06. > :14:11.it is conceivable that it might be, but I think probably the best

:14:12. > :14:18.approach for me to take is to say, let the liaison committee, which is

:14:19. > :14:23.an established and respected committee within this House, to make

:14:24. > :14:25.its judgment. It is legitimate for colleagues to make representations

:14:26. > :14:29.to the committee as to what they think should happen, but rather than

:14:30. > :14:32.the Speaker say what the liaison committee should do, the liaison

:14:33. > :14:39.committee should consider the matter carefully, taking note of these

:14:40. > :14:45.points of order in deciding how to proceed. This is a very serious

:14:46. > :14:50.matter indeed. If the committees are this House are to work collectively,

:14:51. > :14:56.we cannot have a situation in which individual members of the committee

:14:57. > :15:02.leak in advance to advance a particular point of view or to

:15:03. > :15:08.retard progress of another. That is against this period of the select

:15:09. > :15:13.committees of this House. If there are no further points of order, and

:15:14. > :15:19.I thank colleagues for what they have said and the spirit in which

:15:20. > :15:24.they have said it, we come to the backbench motion on scamming and its

:15:25. > :15:30.effects on vulnerable individuals. To move the motions, Michael Mr

:15:31. > :15:33.Julian Knight. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I beg to move the motion as

:15:34. > :15:40.on the order paper in relation to scamming and its effect on

:15:41. > :15:45.vulnerable individuals. It is, Mr Speaker, difficult to overstate the

:15:46. > :15:51.damage done to our economy, society by scam artists and frauds. These

:15:52. > :15:54.people are on some of our most vulnerable citizens and can strike

:15:55. > :15:57.at ceremony point in our lives, whether we are buying a home, hiring

:15:58. > :16:02.a tradesman or investing our pensions. As a former consumer

:16:03. > :16:07.rights and personal finance journalist, I have seen first hand

:16:08. > :16:12.the hand that these forces can do. They not only leave people poorer,

:16:13. > :16:15.Madam Deputy Speaker, but can also cause a huge range of health and

:16:16. > :16:22.confidence problems far into the future. For example, in 2003, whilst

:16:23. > :16:26.working for the BBC, I covered a story of a Southampton pensioner who

:16:27. > :16:30.fell victim to scam artists attending to represent something

:16:31. > :16:37.called the Canadian lottery. They convinced him to wire 1006 under

:16:38. > :16:41.pounds in administration fees to Canada to unlock the money. It is,

:16:42. > :16:47.of course, never materialised. There were only escalating demands for

:16:48. > :16:53.more cash. Good money but after bad. In the end, this individual paid out

:16:54. > :16:56.more than ?9,000 to these fraudsters. In a particularly cruel

:16:57. > :17:01.twist, Ireland him telling me that he had been told to wait up with his

:17:02. > :17:05.wife because there were someone going to call at his house with the

:17:06. > :17:13.cheque and a bunch of flowers to deliver his winnings. The door was

:17:14. > :17:18.never not. When they smoked it him again, they laughed down the phone

:17:19. > :17:26.at him about their own crawly. It is easy to form snap judgments on those

:17:27. > :17:36.who fall victims to these. 5% of cases come to light. I will give

:17:37. > :17:40.way. I am grateful to him. He is making a good case it. Does she

:17:41. > :17:47.agree with me that these crooks are getting ever more sophisticated,

:17:48. > :17:52.with the use of scanning technology and the ability to take a photograph

:17:53. > :17:58.of a picture on the Internet, the very often will copy the logos and

:17:59. > :18:04.trademarks of reputable companies, which makes it even harder to detect

:18:05. > :18:08.that it is a scam? I thank him for making that point. He is correct.

:18:09. > :18:14.The fact is, it seems to be that it is an ever rising tide and ever more

:18:15. > :18:18.sophisticated in its focus. Talking about logos, they also use

:18:19. > :18:23.governmental logos, the HM RC, for example, and other elements of

:18:24. > :18:28.government. They also use logos which sort of a very close to

:18:29. > :18:33.governmental logos and other such cause I institutions. He is right to

:18:34. > :18:38.raise that. It is easy to come to snap judgments, and these people

:18:39. > :18:41.come to snap judgments about themselves and their own

:18:42. > :18:44.foolishness. This gentleman was no fool, he had run his own business

:18:45. > :18:49.for more than 30 years. The scammers were not only persuasive at the

:18:50. > :18:51.parade on his very best instincts. Especially the thought of how he

:18:52. > :18:56.could help his children with the winnings. I would like to thank the

:18:57. > :19:08.honourable member for Ayrshire and Arran, who is -- who co-signed this.

:19:09. > :19:10.Other than the seven come to me to recount their stories of

:19:11. > :19:20.constituents in that respect. I was struck by one from the honourable

:19:21. > :19:26.member for Banbury, who told of one lady who was robbed of ?35,000 by

:19:27. > :19:32.people who were standing by and -- who were pretending to be an

:19:33. > :19:37.antifraud Department in her own bag. Her savings have not been returned.

:19:38. > :19:42.It had a devastating impact, not just financial but emotional, on the

:19:43. > :19:45.lady concerned. These stories are just two amongst thousands that

:19:46. > :19:49.occur each and every year. It highlights why we need to do more to

:19:50. > :19:56.combat this detestable style of crime. I would also like to thank

:19:57. > :20:00.many external organisations that got in touch with me, especially those

:20:01. > :20:02.that provided so much useful data and information, such as the

:20:03. > :20:12.chartered Trading Standards institution, H UK, financial fraud

:20:13. > :20:19.action UK, standard life and the consultancy. The cost of fraud is

:20:20. > :20:22.truly astonishing. According to the chartered Trading Standards

:20:23. > :20:30.Institute, the annual cost of frauds comes to the 2 billion -- ?252

:20:31. > :20:34.billion each year. That is more than we spend on defence or education. If

:20:35. > :20:40.we cut that figure by 10%, we would be really injecting ?5 billion into

:20:41. > :20:45.people's savings and into the wider economy itself. That would equate to

:20:46. > :20:48.much of the economic boost that is coming recently through the payment

:20:49. > :20:55.protection insurance that have taken place. I will give way. I am an

:20:56. > :21:01.called to him for giving way and also for leading this debate. My

:21:02. > :21:05.constituency, a quarter of the population is over the age of 65,

:21:06. > :21:09.and with the average age of those who are being scammed being 74, my

:21:10. > :21:13.constituents are particularly concerned about that. He mentioned

:21:14. > :21:18.the financial cost, which is important, but these are some of the

:21:19. > :21:21.most vulnerable in our society and our constituency so what being

:21:22. > :21:24.scammed. It is not just the financial cost but also the human

:21:25. > :21:31.cost as well. I could not agree more. The demographics of our

:21:32. > :21:38.constituents in terms of age are very similar in that regard. 47% are

:21:39. > :21:42.over sickly five on my constituency full sub 74 is the average age. It

:21:43. > :21:50.is a case that the approach in main different ways, but they

:21:51. > :21:53.instinctively target elderly people in the main, but not to the is of

:21:54. > :21:57.anyone else. Older generations are often quite polite and they don't

:21:58. > :22:02.want to put the phone down straight away. They might respond to a

:22:03. > :22:05.letter. You enter a whole new world in terms of the information

:22:06. > :22:14.gathering that these fraudsters have. The average cost is reported

:22:15. > :22:17.to be ?1000 in fraud. It can be quite a lot higher. In my

:22:18. > :22:23.constituency, I was staggered to find that the average cost is ?9,000

:22:24. > :22:26.for each event of fraud. Probably reflecting a relatively affluent

:22:27. > :22:34.population but also the older population that we just discussed.

:22:35. > :22:37.As I say, older people are disproportionate in being targets of

:22:38. > :22:40.the scammers. At the same time, we must not forget that the youngest

:22:41. > :22:46.reported victim that I had been alerted to was only 19. Can you

:22:47. > :22:50.imagine, starting out in life as an adult and one of your first

:22:51. > :22:55.experiences is to be hoodwinked by one of these despicable fraudsters.

:22:56. > :23:03.It demonstrates that nobody is old enough to handle... Nobody old

:23:04. > :23:07.enough to handle their finances cannot be complacent about the risk

:23:08. > :23:12.of fraud. Being stung is only the start of the process. Details can be

:23:13. > :23:21.sold on more than 200 times, putting them in the sights of much larger

:23:22. > :23:27.pools of criminals. An astonishing 106,000 potential victims of fraud

:23:28. > :23:31.were on come on target lists. In the language of these individuals, they

:23:32. > :23:35.call these lists sucker lists. That is what they think of people. Our

:23:36. > :23:42.investigations suggest that there are 560,000 people's names already

:23:43. > :23:47.in circulation from the UK. We must not fall into the trap of

:23:48. > :23:52.considering the financial costs. The social and human damage caused by

:23:53. > :23:59.fraud can be just as severe. Indeed, according to the phone screening

:24:00. > :24:05.service, the impact of scamming is comparable to that of violent crime.

:24:06. > :24:17.There was a major depressive episode within 20 months of the crime, for

:24:18. > :24:22.many of the victims. There is actual harm that scammers are marketing

:24:23. > :24:27.fake medicines online. It is a particular problem, operation

:24:28. > :24:31.Pangaea has been seizing these products as they come into the UK,

:24:32. > :24:38.and people need to be aware of the danger of buying from these on --

:24:39. > :24:43.these online pharmacies, they need to be buying from repeatable

:24:44. > :24:46.pharmacies in the UK, and there are logos they need to look at to make

:24:47. > :24:53.sure they are buying from a repeatable pharmacy. I thank her for

:24:54. > :24:56.that point. She would have come across this in her role on the

:24:57. > :25:00.committee, and it is not just a case of being deported money, it can cost

:25:01. > :25:06.you your life in the worst possible circumstances. As well as the

:25:07. > :25:08.depressive episodes that can follow, there is also what is called a

:25:09. > :25:17.generalised anxiety disorder which is suffered by 39% of victims, the

:25:18. > :25:21.bed to 15% of non-victims. The stress they suffer can both

:25:22. > :25:30.exacerbate pre-existing health conditions and induce post-traumatic

:25:31. > :25:33.stress. Victims may have an expert at hospital admissions within three

:25:34. > :25:39.months. The circles of these frauds, the effects on our wider society,

:25:40. > :25:43.roll outwards and outwards. More horrifyingly, people who have been

:25:44. > :25:48.defrauded our 2.5 times more likely to be in care or dead within two

:25:49. > :25:54.years of the event itself. Scammers take so much more than cash, they

:25:55. > :25:58.can rob us of our self-confidence, and elderly citizens of the ability

:25:59. > :26:06.to live independently. Of course, we should not forget that people also

:26:07. > :26:09.fight back. I have enjoyed reading stories of what I called scammed

:26:10. > :26:13.baiters, who turned the tables on this product is, wasting their time

:26:14. > :26:17.and making false of them. I particularly like one story I read

:26:18. > :26:22.on the BBC a few years ago, where one gentleman managed to persuade a

:26:23. > :26:28.Nigerian scammer 2-door themselves in bald pate to prove his dedication

:26:29. > :26:31.to a made up religion. -- in wall paint. These knock-on effect on

:26:32. > :26:34.personal independence and relationships at huge invisible

:26:35. > :26:40.costs to the headline figures of fraud.

:26:41. > :26:46.May I congratulate my honourable friend on the excellent case he is

:26:47. > :26:52.making in a very important area. From personal experience I know that

:26:53. > :26:59.some scammers concentrate on people beginning to suffer from short-term

:27:00. > :27:03.memory loss. Can he explain to what extent that is a feature of this

:27:04. > :27:09.phenomenon? And if it is a very significant feature, does it not

:27:10. > :27:14.highlight the importance that people who are beginning to lose their

:27:15. > :27:22.faculties should try it, wherever possible, to give power of attorney

:27:23. > :27:25.to reliable relatives so that they are not vulnerable to being taken

:27:26. > :27:32.advantage of in this way? Absolutely correct. And also, I think we need

:27:33. > :27:37.to see greater training of bank staff as well. I know nationwide are

:27:38. > :27:43.very good. They will spot signs of an individual being defrauded. I can

:27:44. > :27:47.remember one case told to me by a grandmother about a lady on her

:27:48. > :27:50.estate who went to the local nationwide and was trying to

:27:51. > :27:55.withdraw several thousand pounds with two burly men beside her. It

:27:56. > :28:01.was to do with fake repairs, as usual. Nationwide must be commended

:28:02. > :28:06.for stopping that from happening. I the post office is like that as

:28:07. > :28:11.well. The honourable gentleman is quite right to make that link in

:28:12. > :28:26.terms of the fact that because of longevity instances, there are

:28:27. > :28:30.increasing instances of... Overall these knock-on effects on personal

:28:31. > :28:34.dependence and relationship have had huge costs to the headline figures

:28:35. > :28:39.mentioned before, both by increasing demand for state support and simply,

:28:40. > :28:43.in terms of human misery. One of the reasons fraud is so difficult to

:28:44. > :28:47.tackle is that it can take so many different forms. Con artists are

:28:48. > :28:50.adept at exploiting people's unfamiliarity with the technical

:28:51. > :28:56.aspect of a product or service in order to trick them. And they are

:28:57. > :29:00.quick to exploit the latest news story or government initiative.

:29:01. > :29:04.Sometimes this is simply an effort to exploit our generosity after a

:29:05. > :29:08.national disaster, by posing as somebody in need of disaster relief.

:29:09. > :29:13.E-mails suddenly coming from disaster zones and asking for help

:29:14. > :29:18.is a common trick fraudsters. I haven't several constituents visit

:29:19. > :29:22.my surgeries, and I'm sure other honourable members have as well, to

:29:23. > :29:28.complain to me that insurers would allow them to take money out of

:29:29. > :29:32.their funds to invest in a regular investments, allowing people to sell

:29:33. > :29:37.them worthless stocks. I have had to be very clear to these individuals

:29:38. > :29:40.that their insurers are perfectly right and they should never put

:29:41. > :29:44.their pension at risk. I encourage other members of this House to

:29:45. > :29:50.remain vigilant if they hear stories themselves. This pensions unlocking,

:29:51. > :29:55.as it is called, is just one way that con artists are trying to

:29:56. > :29:58.exploit the government's new, more liberal pensions system. I fully

:29:59. > :30:03.support the government in its desire to give more power to individual

:30:04. > :30:05.savers. But cases like these highlight how important it is to

:30:06. > :30:11.have antifraud protection is developed alongside policies rather

:30:12. > :30:16.than afterwards. And this also applies to our regulators as well.

:30:17. > :30:25.Impersonating banks is another very common form of financial fraud. As

:30:26. > :30:32.my honourable friend, -- as my honourable friend discovered,

:30:33. > :30:36.scammers are scanning individually for passwords and pin numbers,

:30:37. > :30:46.security systems become more complex. FFA UK reported that in

:30:47. > :30:49.2015 losses to financial fraud totalled 755 million. That is only

:30:50. > :30:58.what it is reported. Worryingly, this represented a 26% increase on

:30:59. > :31:05.2014, despite card Company security systems intercepting and preventing

:31:06. > :31:09.1.76 billion of fraud. Our ?7 in every ?10 of potential losses. Fraud

:31:10. > :31:14.is also flourishing on the Internet. According to consumer group Which?

:31:15. > :31:19.More than 5 million scams work carried out online last year. An

:31:20. > :31:22.astonishing 9 billion was lost to fraudsters. They also report that

:31:23. > :31:30.six out of ten of us report being targeted by online scammers up to

:31:31. > :31:37.May this year. I am being forever asked to wire money to parts of the

:31:38. > :31:40.world. The most common types of fraud are fishing e-mails. They

:31:41. > :31:47.usually pretend to be from a bank or a senior official. Seeking money and

:31:48. > :31:50.bogus computer support. Yet alongside this cutting-edge macro

:31:51. > :31:55.crime, the more traditional forms of fraud flourished as well. For

:31:56. > :32:05.straight men, tricking people into paying extortionate amounts were

:32:06. > :32:18.unnecessary work. Their cover for burglary as well. I want to read a

:32:19. > :32:20.case in question. It involved a 78 Dirrell pensioner from Lincolnshire

:32:21. > :32:27.who lived alone and was isolated from family. -- 78-year-old. He was

:32:28. > :32:32.conned out of his house by conmen who convinced him major repair work

:32:33. > :32:35.was needed on his property. After being cold cold and visited, he

:32:36. > :32:42.agreed to will part of his property in return for the work being carried

:32:43. > :32:46.out. However, the documents he signed actually gave the house to

:32:47. > :32:51.the scammers, who then placed him in a caravan park. It was only the

:32:52. > :32:55.victim's testimony in court that guaranteed there was a conviction.

:32:56. > :33:04.The others involved have no doubt there were other, silent victims who

:33:05. > :33:07.have lost homes in this way. The huge financial and human cost of

:33:08. > :33:12.fraud make the case for action clear. But the problem could be more

:33:13. > :33:15.serious than we realise. The chartered Trading Standards

:33:16. > :33:22.Institute believe only 5% of scammers are ever reported. Fear and

:33:23. > :33:27.shame keeps victims silent. There are already some very strong efforts

:33:28. > :33:31.in this area, in addition to preventative measures by banks and

:33:32. > :33:34.card companies. Trading Standards has been collaborating with

:33:35. > :33:39.charities and the police to offer better protection to victims. For

:33:40. > :33:44.example, there has been a concerted effort to provide previous victims

:33:45. > :33:48.and those whose age helps make them likely to be victimised, with call

:33:49. > :33:59.blockers. These have so far protected 1600 vulnerable people and

:34:00. > :34:03.blocked 98% of nuisance calls. Based on the overall statistics, they

:34:04. > :34:06.estimate that more than 11,500 scammers that would have been

:34:07. > :34:12.carried out have been stopped. -- scammers. Expanding Trading

:34:13. > :34:18.Standards would make these efforts more effective. More needs to be

:34:19. > :34:21.done. Especially when the resale of personal information makes people so

:34:22. > :34:33.vulnerable to crimes such as identity theft.

:34:34. > :34:45.-- legal harvest Inc of personal data can put... It can be done by

:34:46. > :34:48.clicking a box or a newsletter are signing up to something, and your

:34:49. > :34:51.information going to the. I do not believe people know what they are

:34:52. > :34:58.signing up to and they do not have the transparency. What happens is

:34:59. > :35:00.that maybe the first few purchases -- purchasers of that information

:35:01. > :35:06.may be one of fighting. But further down this gave you wind holding

:35:07. > :35:12.companies buying this information to act for fraudsters as a front.

:35:13. > :35:17.Despite the fact that 85% of people, a huge majority, thinks that

:35:18. > :35:22.business has an equal or greater responsibility to protect consumers

:35:23. > :35:30.from fraud, the cyber security survey found that only 5% of firms,

:35:31. > :35:34.just 5%, invested on monitoring hacks of their system, despite more

:35:35. > :35:39.than six in ten reporting breaches. I know from personal experience that

:35:40. > :35:41.some banks of a long way to go in the run security arrangements.

:35:42. > :35:47.Currently -- very recently HSBC asked my wife for some sensitive

:35:48. > :35:53.information to be sent to a private e-mail address. This was legitimate.

:35:54. > :35:56.It was bone fide. But what on earth is a bank doing allowing private and

:35:57. > :36:02.sensitive information to go outside its own network? Some firms reported

:36:03. > :36:04.to me the astonishing claim that some of our current systems work

:36:05. > :36:12.against responsible corporate behaviour. A partner in a financial

:36:13. > :36:16.consultancy firm wrote to me to explain that the financial ombudsman

:36:17. > :36:18.service is holding his firm accountable for losses incurred by

:36:19. > :36:25.some very risky and frankly quite murky sounding investments. His firm

:36:26. > :36:32.clearly warned their clients away from it. In fact, one adjudicator at

:36:33. > :36:37.the ombudsman service said the firm should have refused to advise the

:36:38. > :36:40.people involved. Alchemy have a system that makes it harder for

:36:41. > :36:48.people to engage in potentially problematic and risky investments?

:36:49. > :36:55.-- how can we have a system? It is essential our regulators are

:36:56. > :37:01.focused. Dodgy schemes blur the line to a legitimate business. Do not

:37:02. > :37:04.unfairly penalise those trying to help. Another area where the

:37:05. > :37:07.government can make a real differences by stress testing

:37:08. > :37:10.policies and building antifraud protections into them as they are

:37:11. > :37:16.developed, rather than waiting until afterwards. I know there have been

:37:17. > :37:18.some strides made in the Cabinet office in terms of sharing

:37:19. > :37:23.information across government to track down fraudsters, for example,

:37:24. > :37:31.over benefits and other such financial positions.

:37:32. > :37:33.I congratulate the honourable member on an excellent speech. Can I

:37:34. > :37:42.underline very strongly the point he made earlier about government

:37:43. > :37:46.schemes? The honourable member referred to pensions. In South Wales

:37:47. > :37:51.particularly in recent years they have been targeted by Green Deal

:37:52. > :37:53.scams. I agree wholeheartedly that it is important government building

:37:54. > :37:57.safeguards in developing policies to avoid people being scammed off the

:37:58. > :38:05.back of a legitimate government scheme. Very good point. I can

:38:06. > :38:08.remember when tax credits were launched and the fraud that took

:38:09. > :38:14.place them in that respect. It does seem to be that they cotton on

:38:15. > :38:18.incredibly quickly, the fraudsters, to what is going on, and they see

:38:19. > :38:25.the opportunities. They seem incredibly flexible. They are very

:38:26. > :38:27.quick to move on to any new opportunity. It can cost the

:38:28. > :38:31.government hundreds of millions of pounds, for example, by exploiting

:38:32. > :38:39.the Green Deal. The tax credit proved vulnerable to such a point

:38:40. > :38:42.that the online portal set up to claim was still there ten years

:38:43. > :38:45.later. Much of the advice on offer, despite the best of intentions, is

:38:46. > :38:51.too cautious and contains too much room for doubt. There is too much

:38:52. > :38:56.reliance on caveat emptor. It would be better to lay out some clearer

:38:57. > :39:03.rules. If a tradesman knocks on your daughters say that need surprise

:39:04. > :39:08.repairs, just say no. Thank him or her, and if you're worried, call a

:39:09. > :39:13.reputable professional yourself. If someone tries to convince you that

:39:14. > :39:17.you have won a lottery you did not enter, just say no. This never

:39:18. > :39:20.happens, ever. We cannot be clear enough on this point. If someone

:39:21. > :39:24.tries to persuade you to make a risky investment with your pension,

:39:25. > :39:28.just say no. That precious investment has to look after you in

:39:29. > :39:38.your old age. If you want to invest, it always takes time to seek proper

:39:39. > :39:41.independent financial advice. Is he worried, in the same way that

:39:42. > :39:50.I am, with the number of people who do respond? The moment people of --

:39:51. > :39:53.respond to one, I had a case of someone getting between ten and 20 a

:39:54. > :39:57.day. These are coming from abroad, which means they cannot be

:39:58. > :40:06.intercepted. This is causing a lot of heartache to vulnerable people.

:40:07. > :40:08.Before the honourable gentleman response to the intervention, I

:40:09. > :40:12.appreciate he's making some extremely important points and the

:40:13. > :40:15.House is attentive, but he will appreciate there are a great many

:40:16. > :40:19.people who want to speak this afternoon not only in this debate

:40:20. > :40:24.but in the next one, and I am sure he will conclude very soon.

:40:25. > :40:29.I am actually on my last paragraph in that respect. Thank you for

:40:30. > :40:32.reminding me. As I say, yes, the honourable gentleman is absolutely

:40:33. > :40:35.correct in that respect. The Post Office doors, if you are alerted to

:40:36. > :40:41.this particular situation, they will stop mail and set up a scam mailbox

:40:42. > :40:45.for you in that regard, which is a good initiative. But we need to say

:40:46. > :40:50.more about this. In conclusion, Madame Deputy Speaker, fraud is a

:40:51. > :40:54.detestable sort of crime that preys on our worst fears and best

:40:55. > :40:57.instincts. I hope that together, with the police and other

:40:58. > :41:02.organisations and across government, we can start to stamp it out.

:41:03. > :41:10.The question is as on the order paper. Before I call the co-sponsor

:41:11. > :41:15.of the motion, as I just said, a great many people wish to speak on

:41:16. > :41:18.this debate, and the next one this afternoon. I have to impose a time

:41:19. > :41:25.limit on backbench speeches of five minutes. That doesn't apply to the

:41:26. > :41:32.next speaker, who is deemed to be the spokesman for her party,

:41:33. > :41:38.Patricia Gibson. I'm delighted to co-sponsor this motion today. It is

:41:39. > :41:42.important to the member of Solihull, with whom I have sparred in the

:41:43. > :41:48.past, but who I am in agreement with today. The cost of scamming on our

:41:49. > :41:52.society is huge and this cost cannot be counted in terms of pounds and

:41:53. > :41:58.pence, although the financial cost is significant. Scamming does not

:41:59. > :42:01.exclusively but disproportionately affects the elderly and honourable

:42:02. > :42:06.men is about amenities, and this is becoming greater with each passing

:42:07. > :42:09.day. The Office for National Statistics predicts the number of

:42:10. > :42:16.elderly people living in our communities will increase by 34%

:42:17. > :42:24.from 11.6 million to 15.7 million by 2030. Those living with dementia

:42:25. > :42:31.will increase from 850,000 to 2.1 million people by 2030. The people

:42:32. > :42:35.who perpetrate these schemes use a sophisticated techniques to

:42:36. > :42:40.repeatedly scammed their victims, whilst Trading Standards, hard

:42:41. > :42:47.pressed as they are, are working on the front line to do all they can to

:42:48. > :42:52.safeguard them honourable. The most sinister, the most cynical and cruel

:42:53. > :42:55.aspect of scamming is that it is criminal activity that targets those

:42:56. > :43:01.who are the most about trouble in their very own home. The one place

:43:02. > :43:09.where any of us should feel most safe becomes the setting for conning

:43:10. > :43:12.people out of their money by sales scripts, data collection and

:43:13. > :43:18.targeted mail. Scams can range from pension fraud, bogus equity release

:43:19. > :43:22.schemes, fictitious prize draws, false investment opportunities,

:43:23. > :43:26.upfront payments to release lottery wins, upfront payments for building

:43:27. > :43:33.work that is either never started or never completed, or investment scams

:43:34. > :43:52.and so on. The most common telephone scams are called false -- cold

:43:53. > :43:56.calls. I have something that I will discuss the creek, but I'm excited

:43:57. > :44:02.about it. Scamming has been shown to have an impact on physical

:44:03. > :44:06.well-being. At worst, the impact of scams can ruin lives, split

:44:07. > :44:13.families, with the consequences lasting long beyond the initial

:44:14. > :44:16.trauma of financial loss. Even though financial losses are

:44:17. > :44:20.comparatively low, scams still lead to a breakdown in consumer

:44:21. > :44:25.confidence. The full effects of the harm caused by scams is really

:44:26. > :44:29.difficult to estimate as only around 5% of victims report they have lost

:44:30. > :44:35.money. We know the average victim loses around ?1000, but we also know

:44:36. > :44:40.that many loose hundreds of thousands of pounds. We know that

:44:41. > :44:43.victims of scams often feel very embarrassed and afraid that their

:44:44. > :44:47.families will judge them as no longer able to live on their own,

:44:48. > :44:55.which can also lead to scams not being reported, and thereby leaving

:44:56. > :45:04.Victim Support and and vulnerable to repeat scams. -- leaving victims

:45:05. > :45:07.open. People find it difficult to admit they have been a victim of a

:45:08. > :45:13.crime. Let us not forget the impact of dementia and other impairments,

:45:14. > :45:17.which makes it vulnerability more pronounced and the ability to

:45:18. > :45:23.repeatedly target an individual much more possible. As the honourable

:45:24. > :45:26.gentleman from Solihull pointed out, it has been demonstrated that

:45:27. > :45:31.victims of scams are nearly 2.5 times more likely to require

:45:32. > :45:35.increased care provision, or be dead, within the two years

:45:36. > :45:40.subsequent to being a victim of scamming. It is reported that scam

:45:41. > :45:43.victims often experience a rapid drop in physical health after the

:45:44. > :45:49.realisation that they have been scammed. The scale of the problem

:45:50. > :45:54.and its associated costs are absolutely huge. Alongside this

:45:55. > :45:58.growing problem, we all know that Trading Standards are struggling to

:45:59. > :46:05.cope, although the work they do is worthy of very high praise and

:46:06. > :46:13.demands our respect. I also want to highlight the excellent work carried

:46:14. > :46:17.out by an organisation called CIFAS, which shares confirmed fraud data,

:46:18. > :46:23.and they prevented more than 1 billion in fraud loss by sharing

:46:24. > :46:31.data across sectors. In my own constituency of North Ayrshire and

:46:32. > :46:38.Aaron, it showed that 270 frauds took place. But we know that this is

:46:39. > :46:45.a mere snapshot of the true level of fraud, which is likely to be much,

:46:46. > :46:52.much higher. At this stage, I also want to single out for particular

:46:53. > :47:01.praise murmurs of my constituency who carried out a range of activity

:47:02. > :47:03.to provide awareness of scamming amongst clients, working in

:47:04. > :47:14.partnership with local community groups, the third sector, police

:47:15. > :47:22.Scotland and others. Kenneth Gibson, MSP, why mention in the interest of

:47:23. > :47:27.domestic harmony, was involved as well. Scams do so much more than rob

:47:28. > :47:30.people of their money. It robs them of their confidence, their belief in

:47:31. > :47:36.themselves, their own judgment, their self-esteem, their wedding

:47:37. > :47:43.this to trust people, -- their willingness to trust people. It also

:47:44. > :47:46.robs them of their ability to live full, happy and independent lives.

:47:47. > :47:54.What makes all of us vulnerable to scams is shown by research carried

:47:55. > :48:00.out by Which. All of us are confident about our ability to spot

:48:01. > :48:04.fake scam -- spot a scam, which begs us more vulnerable. The gap between

:48:05. > :48:09.confidence and ability is dangerous. So what can we do about this

:48:10. > :48:13.problem? I absolutely agree with the suggestion put forward by trading

:48:14. > :48:20.standards that financial institution should recognise that consumers,

:48:21. > :48:24.clients with dementia are by definition more at risk of being

:48:25. > :48:28.scammed, and measures need to be taken to protect this group as a

:48:29. > :48:33.duty of care. Those who are diagnosed with dementia live with

:48:34. > :48:38.the cognitive impairment, and this must be recognised. The sharing of

:48:39. > :48:42.personal details and information to other organisations should require a

:48:43. > :48:48.clear opt in as opposed to an opt out. It should also be the case that

:48:49. > :48:51.the normal evil position of charities and other organisations

:48:52. > :48:59.should be that personal details are not passed on or shared, except to

:49:00. > :49:03.report a safeguarding concern when there is a suspicion that a person

:49:04. > :49:07.may be at risk or harm of scamming. In addition, customers should be

:49:08. > :49:13.able to formally notify their bank in writing, stating that they feel

:49:14. > :49:18.at risk, and request that all transactions over a certain amount

:49:19. > :49:24.have a 24 hour delay before being processed. This will allow time for

:49:25. > :49:32.the transaction to be challenged and potentially stopped. These sensible

:49:33. > :49:36.and fairly straightforward measures would do much to protect those most

:49:37. > :49:41.at risk of scamming. The elderly and the vulnerable in our communities. I

:49:42. > :49:48.urge the Minister to reflect on these proposals to help us tackle

:49:49. > :49:54.these problems to help us tackle the problem which confronts people who

:49:55. > :50:01.are robbed in their very own homes. Subsequently, they find the

:50:02. > :50:06.experience scarring. The effects are far reaching indeed. Let's do more

:50:07. > :50:12.to protect the victims of scams, it is the least we can do. Minister.

:50:13. > :50:15.Thank you very much indeed. I wholeheartedly congratulate the

:50:16. > :50:19.honourable members for North Ayrshire and for Solihull for

:50:20. > :50:23.securing this really important debate. I know they have a

:50:24. > :50:30.long-standing interest in tackling scamming, especially when honourable

:50:31. > :50:36.individuals are the victims. They have set out the wide rage of harm

:50:37. > :50:40.-- range of harm that scammers can cause. I would like to assure the

:50:41. > :50:44.House that tackling scams is a priority for this government. Scams

:50:45. > :50:50.can have a devastating impact, particularly on the most moral

:50:51. > :50:56.people -- most vulnerable people in society. It can affect us any time.

:50:57. > :51:00.We are more likely to be a victim of fraud than any other crime. When

:51:01. > :51:05.caught out, we can sometimes feel ashamed, not want to admit that we

:51:06. > :51:09.been hoodwinked. This can make it hard to get a full sense of the

:51:10. > :51:14.problem. It is really important that we do all we can to understand it

:51:15. > :51:20.and respond, which is why I welcome this debate today. We know that

:51:21. > :51:24.older people are more at risk. The National Trading Standards scams

:51:25. > :51:31.team says the typical person may provide support to is 74 years old

:51:32. > :51:38.and living alone. This is why I welcome the work of Bournemouth

:51:39. > :51:41.University and the chartered standards Institute to investigate

:51:42. > :51:45.the impact of scams on older people. Their report on financial scamming

:51:46. > :51:50.earlier this year set out clear recommendations for action by

:51:51. > :51:58.government, charities, private institutions and banks. Much of this

:51:59. > :52:01.debate is focusing on the recommendations, and I will address

:52:02. > :52:06.those directly. For the first recommendation, it was that all

:52:07. > :52:10.agencies, including banks, should recognise the duty of care to those

:52:11. > :52:15.with dementia. And to take measures to protect them. Second was to

:52:16. > :52:22.strengthen rules around data protection, to reduce the risk of

:52:23. > :52:29.vulnerable people ending up on suckers lists, and which are used by

:52:30. > :52:31.scammers to target their scams, and thirdly to introduce safeguards at

:52:32. > :52:41.banks and building societies to prevent those who fear they are at

:52:42. > :52:44.risk from becoming victims. I thank for the interest she is taking

:52:45. > :52:47.interest in this. I know from personal experience that is

:52:48. > :52:53.difficult to get a bank to take action unless somebody already has

:52:54. > :52:58.given power of attorney, as I said in my earlier intervention, and when

:52:59. > :53:04.this happened to someone close to me and I told the bank concerned that I

:53:05. > :53:11.needed to be tipped off if there was any unusual withdraws, nothing

:53:12. > :53:14.really happened until a particular alert cashier, on her own

:53:15. > :53:20.initiative, did that. After five years, I eventually got the

:53:21. > :53:24.fraudster to repay all the money and pay the costs of the case. Could she

:53:25. > :53:30.do everything possible to persuade the banks that, even if the power of

:53:31. > :53:37.attorney is not in place, if a worried close relative asks them to

:53:38. > :53:43.monitor regular withdrawals or unusual transactions, that they have

:53:44. > :53:47.procedures in place to do that? -- in regular withdrawals.

:53:48. > :53:53.It affects the point that our honourable friend from Solihull made

:53:54. > :53:59.that some banks have good procedures in place, and some don't. Some staff

:54:00. > :54:03.have been well trained and some haven't. We need to ensure that

:54:04. > :54:12.every person working in the bank is as good as those who are identified

:54:13. > :54:17.by the Nationwide, as mentioned by the member from Solihull. I will

:54:18. > :54:21.come to the point about what they can do to protect their customers. I

:54:22. > :54:25.am pleased to report to the House that the Government, regulators and

:54:26. > :54:31.private companies are responding strongly to the recommendations that

:54:32. > :54:34.I have outlined. First of all, the Government has taken action more

:54:35. > :54:39.widely on the issue of nuisance calls, including a new requirement

:54:40. > :54:45.for all direct marketing callers to provide caller line identification.

:54:46. > :54:50.This came into effect on the sick thing to me. The major increases

:54:51. > :54:57.consumer choice, making it easier for people to identify direct

:54:58. > :55:03.marketing calls and choose whether to accept them or not. It also

:55:04. > :55:10.increases the ability to investigate such calls. The governor also plans

:55:11. > :55:25.to bring forward a digital economy Bill. It will introduce a measure,

:55:26. > :55:31.making it requirement to introduce a statutory... Will she address the

:55:32. > :55:37.fines that are meted out when people breach the rules. There was a case

:55:38. > :55:39.of a pharmacy which sold on, disgracefully, the details of more

:55:40. > :55:49.than 20,000 of its customers, many of them vulnerable to other

:55:50. > :55:53.marketing companies. A fine of ?130,000 is derisory and no

:55:54. > :56:00.meaningful deterrent. As always, she makes a powerful point. I'm sure as

:56:01. > :56:14.those who are as possible for drafting these issues is aware of

:56:15. > :56:17.that, but also we need to make sure there is sufficient deterrent from

:56:18. > :56:19.undertaking these crimes in the first place by the regime of

:56:20. > :56:27.punishments that put place, including fines. Overall, the code

:56:28. > :56:33.of practice will wholeheartedly be behind the reduction in the number

:56:34. > :56:36.of direct marketing course, and to make it much easier for the

:56:37. > :56:38.information Commissioner is to take action against organisations in

:56:39. > :56:50.breach of those rules. The Trading Standards scams team are

:56:51. > :56:55.working with the British banking Association, the building society

:56:56. > :57:00.associations and others to produce a new banking protocol for doorstep

:57:01. > :57:02.crime and other scam issues discovered that branch level. The

:57:03. > :57:08.Financial Conduct Authority is building on this. Their ageing

:57:09. > :57:10.population strategy will consider how older consumers engage in

:57:11. > :57:16.financial services and make best use of the products and services they

:57:17. > :57:18.use. The Financial Conduct Authority intends to release regulatory

:57:19. > :57:24.strategy and recommendations by 2017.

:57:25. > :57:28.I am grateful to the minister forgiving way. She mentions Trading

:57:29. > :57:34.Standards. Can I advise her to praise the work of Dorset and Poole

:57:35. > :57:38.Trading Standards, who can only do their work of the victims come

:57:39. > :57:42.forward. That is the only way successful prosecutions can be

:57:43. > :57:45.secured. Can I invite her to continue with her work with Trading

:57:46. > :57:51.Standards in highlighting the important work they do. My right

:57:52. > :57:54.honourable friend raises an important point about Trading

:57:55. > :57:59.Standards. My own team in Cornwall do an excellent job. I should point

:58:00. > :58:02.out that in addition to the vital work they do in all of our

:58:03. > :58:09.communities, they are supported by national bodies, one in Scotland and

:58:10. > :58:12.one for England and Wales. A lot of these activities related to

:58:13. > :58:17.organised and serious crime. These national bodies to make money

:58:18. > :58:21.available to support where we have seen particular instances of

:58:22. > :58:26.scamming in the community. That national and local working is a

:58:27. > :58:30.really good model. Following on from scandals that we saw in 2015 that

:58:31. > :58:35.highlighted on charitable fundraising practices, a new

:58:36. > :58:40.fundraising regulator has been established, chaired by Lord grade

:58:41. > :58:44.of Yarmouth. This independent regulator is tasked to set high

:58:45. > :58:50.standards of fundraising practices and to deal with public complaints

:58:51. > :58:53.when they have been breached. It has a range of sanctions and can refer

:58:54. > :58:57.serious noncompliance or abuse to the regular treat -- to the

:58:58. > :59:03.regulator. The scams team have also been working with the Royal Mail and

:59:04. > :59:09.other postal operators, training over 2000 postmen and women to spot

:59:10. > :59:13.scam letters. Already more than 700 vulnerable households have been

:59:14. > :59:18.identified and are getting support. Even more importantly, contracts to

:59:19. > :59:21.carry the mail are being cancelled. Stopping the letters from getting

:59:22. > :59:26.into the intended victims in the first place. So enforcement is

:59:27. > :59:31.important in tackling this crime. This is why the Home Office launched

:59:32. > :59:37.a joint fraud task force in February of this year. The task force

:59:38. > :59:42.includes amongst others the City of London police, the national crime is

:59:43. > :59:49.the, financial fraud action UK, Bank of England, national Trading

:59:50. > :59:54.Standards and Age UK. The task force is a ready good example of the

:59:55. > :59:57.approach we are taking to crime prevention. This is very much the

:59:58. > :00:02.focus of the modern crime prevention strategy. It was published in March

:00:03. > :00:08.this year. Its key themes about working together to understand the

:00:09. > :00:11.drivers of crime, why and how they create -- committed, and working

:00:12. > :00:16.together to stay one step ahead of the criminals to prevent more crime

:00:17. > :00:18.happening in the future. The work of the task force oversight board is an

:00:19. > :00:24.excellent example of such collaboration. It brings government,

:00:25. > :00:27.law enforcement and industry together in a focused way to develop

:00:28. > :00:35.a cure and common understanding about the changing nature and how we

:00:36. > :00:40.can take action against it. In its first few months alone, the task

:00:41. > :00:43.force has demonstrated it is working effectively. Improved data sharing

:00:44. > :00:48.has let banks to close hundreds of accounts linked to fraud. Bank

:00:49. > :00:52.branches in London alongside the Met and Trading Standards are

:00:53. > :00:57.introducing a new fraud intervention scheme. And prolific fraudsters have

:00:58. > :01:02.been arrested since the launch of a new campaign in July. So I can

:01:03. > :01:06.assure honourable members that the government regards tackling scamming

:01:07. > :01:10.as a priority. And we will continue to work with national and local

:01:11. > :01:15.partners to address the issues raised today, and to do everything

:01:16. > :01:20.we can to prevent the horrendous consequences of the scams we have

:01:21. > :01:25.heard about today. And to enable far more of the good work that we have

:01:26. > :01:28.seen. Irony want to highlight one extremely good example I came across

:01:29. > :01:34.from Trading Standards in Scotland. They funded and coordinated a

:01:35. > :01:40.project which saw the installation of more than 200 blocking devices in

:01:41. > :01:50.vulnerable consumers homes. These devices blocked 90% of nuisance

:01:51. > :01:55.calls. The impact the preventing scam cannot be underestimated.

:01:56. > :01:58.Trading Standards Scotland estimate the resultant savings to individuals

:01:59. > :02:04.and the public purse is between ?3000 and ?7,000 per call blocker.

:02:05. > :02:08.But really what we're here to do today is to think about the effect

:02:09. > :02:11.on people. And I want to read out to you a quote from one of the

:02:12. > :02:18.beneficiaries of this scheme, which really illustrates its treat human

:02:19. > :02:24.value. She says, I have my life back. I am nearly 70. And I think,

:02:25. > :02:28.how did I let people like this get to meet? My son is ill and cannot

:02:29. > :02:33.protect me. I have had to get police protection in the past four nuisance

:02:34. > :02:39.calls. Now I can protect myself. It is marvellous. I feel in control. We

:02:40. > :02:44.can sit and have a cup of tea without being disturbed. Even the

:02:45. > :02:48.dog macro is less stressed. So to conclude, I would like to repeat my

:02:49. > :02:52.thanks to the honourable members for North Ayrshire and Arran, and for

:02:53. > :02:59.Soliola, for securing this really important debate. -- Solihull. I

:03:00. > :03:02.will be listening to the contributions of all members today.

:03:03. > :03:12.And I can assure all members here of our utter determination to tackle

:03:13. > :03:18.this dreadful criminal activity. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I

:03:19. > :03:22.would like to congratulate and thank the honourable members for securing

:03:23. > :03:27.this debate. On a subject that I must confess I did not know nearly

:03:28. > :03:30.enough about. But I do know now that my own constituency is affected by

:03:31. > :03:35.scams in the same way many other members are. One of the local police

:03:36. > :03:39.divisions informs me that the main type of scam taking place is one

:03:40. > :03:44.referred to earlier where crooks preferred -- pretends to be from the

:03:45. > :03:49.bank and they state that unusual activity is happening on the

:03:50. > :03:52.victim's account. Information is requested and a safe count,

:03:53. > :03:55.so-called, set up. The victim is asked to transfer the money into

:03:56. > :04:01.that account. That is almost the opposite of safe. Another officer

:04:02. > :04:05.informs me that we are talking about large sums of money being taken with

:04:06. > :04:10.an equally large impact on the victim. It seems a lot of

:04:11. > :04:17.productivity goes unreported as persons feel ashamed at being caught

:04:18. > :04:21.out by such scams. This is the picture all across the country, with

:04:22. > :04:26.the average victim 74 years old, the average lost ?1000, but with many

:04:27. > :04:30.moved -- losing more. Yet only 5% of victims report having been scammed

:04:31. > :04:34.to the authorities. I have been astonished to learn about the scale

:04:35. > :04:38.of the problem, the number of people losing out, the financial losses

:04:39. > :04:46.resulting, the range of industries are affected, the different types of

:04:47. > :04:54.scam and technologies. The only thing less of a surprise is the

:04:55. > :04:57.personal distress and misery caused. I was horrified to read that the

:04:58. > :05:03.victims of mass marketing type fraud, in particular, are also --

:05:04. > :05:09.often placed on the so-called suckers list. Anything that can be

:05:10. > :05:13.done to clamp down on that practice must be done. It is all rather

:05:14. > :05:19.depressing reading. How do we go about the task of preventing and

:05:20. > :05:21.bringing scam perpetrators to justice? We all have a

:05:22. > :05:29.responsibility in raising awareness by highlighting scams are fraud by

:05:30. > :05:33.supporting scorpion and backing campaigns such as scam awareness

:05:34. > :05:43.month and the scams information leaflet from Age UK. I confess that

:05:44. > :05:53.action fraud evaded me until a few months ago. I will make sure many of

:05:54. > :05:56.my constituents know about it. Things are easy to forget under

:05:57. > :06:01.pressure particular leaf of vulnerable people. If it is too good

:06:02. > :06:07.to be true, it definitely is. Especially if it is a cold call.

:06:08. > :06:10.Take expert advice. Your local citizens Advice Bureau is happy to

:06:11. > :06:15.help. Do not be scared to doubt someone's honesty if they are asking

:06:16. > :06:21.you to part with cash. It is difficult for a lot of people to do.

:06:22. > :06:29.I appreciate that he is taking this information as well from Citizens

:06:30. > :06:33.Advice. A lot of time has been used already. I am very concerned. We

:06:34. > :06:41.have an oversubscribed debate next. We are going to use more time. So

:06:42. > :06:45.please come if we can try to contract. I think you are going to

:06:46. > :06:51.come back with two minutes in the end.

:06:52. > :06:54.Maybe not! Carry on. The point I was making is we should encourage people

:06:55. > :06:57.not to be scared about dating a person's honesty when they are

:06:58. > :07:02.asking them to part with cash. Unfortunately, that is something

:07:03. > :07:07.some vulnerable people are scared to do. Of course, that is exactly what

:07:08. > :07:10.makes them vulnerable. We have to encourage them to see there is no

:07:11. > :07:15.downside to that. Honest people will not be upset by being challenged in

:07:16. > :07:19.that way. We must also encourage people to report not only might that

:07:20. > :07:24.help see justice done and perhaps even some redress, but it also helps

:07:25. > :07:32.with other people falling victim, too. This can only take this so far

:07:33. > :07:39.when scams are increasing all the time. It cannot be relied upon to

:07:40. > :07:42.protect significant numbers of people in crucial moments when they

:07:43. > :07:49.are being handed for their cash. So going beyond a rate -- awareness

:07:50. > :07:51.raising, the proposals by the chartered Trading Standards

:07:52. > :07:55.Institute and Bournemouth University, and other suggestions

:07:56. > :07:59.today, provide important pointers of the steps that can be taken. My

:08:00. > :08:04.honourable friend highlighted this and it does seem an attractive

:08:05. > :08:10.proposition, the idea of an opt in procedure so that any significant

:08:11. > :08:16.transactions from an account held by a vulnerable person, there is a

:08:17. > :08:19.24-hour stop put on that while they nominated representative is

:08:20. > :08:24.contacted to provide an opportunity to challenge that transaction. It

:08:25. > :08:28.really should be close to impossible for a vulnerable person to transfer

:08:29. > :08:33.their entire contents of their bank account to somebody else without

:08:34. > :08:37.major questions being asked. We also need to think carefully about

:08:38. > :08:40.increasing resources, invest in tackling this problem. Not only

:08:41. > :08:43.public money but time and money invested by companies protecting

:08:44. > :08:49.their most vulnerable customers and clients. I will be happy to sign up

:08:50. > :08:55.to become a scam ambassador. I know that many other honourable members

:08:56. > :08:58.will do so as well. The fightback against these wicked and callous

:08:59. > :09:04.fraudsters deserves all the support it can get.

:09:05. > :09:07.Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I would like to thank my honourable friend

:09:08. > :09:14.for bringing this important debate to the floor of the House. I'm going

:09:15. > :09:17.to focus on scams targeted at the elderly. As chair of the All Party

:09:18. > :09:22.Parliamentary Group on Iran and older people, I hosted the first

:09:23. > :09:32.debate of a commission which offered a listening exercise for older

:09:33. > :09:36.people. It asked them about their concerns and what they feared most

:09:37. > :09:41.about staying safe. Their concerns around scamming more profound. Based

:09:42. > :09:48.on projections from national data, the commission estimated that could

:09:49. > :09:55.be as many as 13,000 cases in Sussex alone in any year. For example, the

:09:56. > :10:01.commission heard that one man's elderly brother was dying of cancer

:10:02. > :10:08.and quite frail. He was persuaded to pay ?2000 for a roof and damp

:10:09. > :10:12.repairs. A couple aged 85 and 86 were scammed out of ?8,000 through a

:10:13. > :10:17.postal scam and their daughter lost money in the process of trying to

:10:18. > :10:22.recover the funds. Another woman was charged ?450 for minor building

:10:23. > :10:27.repairs that were subsequently valued at ?30. Scams targeted at

:10:28. > :10:30.elderly people, purposefully target vulnerable people. The perpetrators

:10:31. > :10:35.see people who are more trusting and less inquisitive. They may be less

:10:36. > :10:37.mobile and easily cornered. Perhaps they are lonely and isolated and

:10:38. > :10:39.therefore welcoming of contact for minor building repairs that were

:10:40. > :10:41.subsequently valued at ?30. Scams targeted at elderly people,

:10:42. > :10:43.purposefully target vulnerable people. The perpetrators see people

:10:44. > :10:45.who are more trusting and less inquisitive. They may be less mobile

:10:46. > :10:47.and easily cornered. Perhaps they are lonely and isolated and

:10:48. > :10:50.therefore welcoming of contact from other people. They may be more keen

:10:51. > :10:52.to make sure that someone leaves them alone and therefore more

:10:53. > :10:55.willing to pay a price in order to get rid of them, just because it is

:10:56. > :10:58.easier. And also, as we have heard earlier, if you are an older person,

:10:59. > :11:01.you might not have all your faculties. You might not be aware of

:11:02. > :11:03.what is going on. Or that you are a victim of scamming. The scammers

:11:04. > :11:05.prey on these characteristics, particularly the vulnerability and

:11:06. > :11:10.isolation of older people, even worse, they can pull it off when the

:11:11. > :11:13.person is at their own front door sitting in their own living room

:11:14. > :11:19.using their own phone, opening their own poster responding to what seems

:11:20. > :11:23.like a personal e-mail. As a result, one in five older people in Sussex

:11:24. > :11:26.are afraid to answer their own phone in their own home. These scams are

:11:27. > :11:39.not always carried out by strangers. They might begin to did by members

:11:40. > :11:45.of their own family, or carers or close friends. Adult social services

:11:46. > :11:48.received allegations of 21,935 cases of theft and fraud against elderly

:11:49. > :12:13.that Tim 's -- in the 12 months. Age UK is doing good work on my own

:12:14. > :12:21.constituency, where the average victim loses ?23,000 over a 12 month

:12:22. > :12:25.period. They provide support services give victims. As a society,

:12:26. > :12:29.we also need to do more to encourage family members to better protect and

:12:30. > :12:36.look after their elderly relatives. Investing in hidden cameras in a

:12:37. > :12:42.bulletin's home because it makes it easier for police to catch regular

:12:43. > :12:47.perpetrators. Call blocking technology that we have heard about

:12:48. > :12:52.is incredibly difficult for older people to install, we should

:12:53. > :12:57.encourage family members to do that. There is a duty of care for both the

:12:58. > :13:02.workers and bank staff. But it must go further. I would also like to

:13:03. > :13:09.suggest that scans older link -- targeting the elderly be

:13:10. > :13:20.recategorised as a different crime, as they are aimed at the vulnerable.

:13:21. > :13:25.We already treat child abuse as a separate crime and while I obviously

:13:26. > :13:29.recognise the real differences between physical child abuse and

:13:30. > :13:32.scams against the elderly, both or especially Republican and because

:13:33. > :13:36.the target those are least able to defend and protect themselves. In

:13:37. > :13:47.San Diego in America, they have an official Elder abuse investigation

:13:48. > :13:55.unit. I would urge we make it a priority. Reporting of elder abuse

:13:56. > :14:01.is mandatory. It makes it easier to collect evidence and prosecute. In

:14:02. > :14:12.the case worker is assigned to each person who is a victim of a scam.

:14:13. > :14:22.Order! And sorry. Speak to your colleagues. -- I am sorry, I'm

:14:23. > :14:25.speaking to your colleagues. I thank them for securing the debate today.

:14:26. > :14:33.We have already heard some of the atrocious cases of scamming of those

:14:34. > :14:38.who are most vulnerable. Some victims have been forced to

:14:39. > :14:43.remortgage or even sell their homes to cover costs. I would like to draw

:14:44. > :14:53.the House's attention to a case in Wales. Up to May 2016, the 8774

:14:54. > :14:57.victims of fraud reported. It is estimated that only 5% of scamming

:14:58. > :15:00.victims report being scammed to reality, so the reality is much

:15:01. > :15:07.worse. I would like to briefly highlight once, that has affected a

:15:08. > :15:16.number of my constituents. They have been targeted by an automated voice

:15:17. > :15:24.mail system that has allegedly come from Revenue and Customs, and the

:15:25. > :15:30.person asks for a number of personal details including National Insurance

:15:31. > :15:46.numbers. A person claiming to be from age is a -- from HM RC is a

:15:47. > :15:49.common scam. People are often caught out, and they are unclear about

:15:50. > :15:54.where they can go to report what has happened to them. Many would argue,

:15:55. > :16:00.Mr Deputy Speaker, that scamming in some of our constituencies is at

:16:01. > :16:09.crisis point. It will only get worse if it is not given the attention it

:16:10. > :16:17.needs. We haven't ageing population and -- we have an ageing population,

:16:18. > :16:23.and an increase in the number of people with dementia. We have new

:16:24. > :16:32.avenues for fraudsters to explore. Year-to-year, a 50% increase -- 58%

:16:33. > :16:36.increase in suspect course. It is difficult to assess the effect of

:16:37. > :16:41.scamming today due to the fact that so many victims choose not to report

:16:42. > :16:45.the crimes. We can say with certainty that it will increase in

:16:46. > :16:53.future. The ONS predict that a 5% increase in elderly abuse will

:16:54. > :16:56.transpire by 2030. We must recognise this is a tremendous problem. I'm

:16:57. > :17:00.glad that we have had the opportunity to highlight this today.

:17:01. > :17:04.It is our duty in this House not only to draw attention to the issue

:17:05. > :17:09.of scamming and its effects on individuals but to also to look

:17:10. > :17:14.towards solutions. There needs to be sufficient support for those falling

:17:15. > :17:20.foul of it. Trading Standards continue to do excellent work, but

:17:21. > :17:24.Budget cuts means they cannot reach their potential. Call blocking

:17:25. > :17:31.projects have done wonders to tackle the issue but they can only continue

:17:32. > :17:36.with sufficient funding. It is unacceptable that there has been a

:17:37. > :17:44.53% cut to front-line officers of Trading Standards since 2009. There

:17:45. > :17:53.can be no denial that this has into bitter to the issue. -- contributed

:17:54. > :17:57.to the issue. We must also invest in the police to allow them to raise

:17:58. > :18:01.awareness. In the scam in my constituency, South Wales police

:18:02. > :18:05.have worked locally to help people know about the issue via social

:18:06. > :18:09.media, and it has reached hundreds of thousands of people across the

:18:10. > :18:12.South Wales area. The Government must make suggestions on further

:18:13. > :18:17.steps to tackle such commonality, and cuts cannot continue without

:18:18. > :18:24.consideration of consequences. I'm glad we have mothers from both sides

:18:25. > :18:28.of the chamber today to consider the issue, and there is a consensus on

:18:29. > :18:30.it, and we have common ground on the problem. We cannot ignore the fact

:18:31. > :18:39.that governed cuts have contributed to the dilemma and I would urge the

:18:40. > :18:45.government to examine the issue and to invest in front-line services to

:18:46. > :18:48.tackle the problem. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I congratulate my

:18:49. > :18:53.honourable friend for securing this important debate. I'm sure, like all

:18:54. > :18:58.members, I have experienced constituents at my surgery tearing

:18:59. > :19:05.their hair out and almost in tears following a number of scams. I want

:19:06. > :19:09.to focus on two particular issues if time permits. Both work perpetrated

:19:10. > :19:13.against professional people who did all the appropriate checks. I want

:19:14. > :19:23.to highlight the fact that they feel let down by the investigatory and

:19:24. > :19:29.regulatory authorities. One couple lost ?19,000 as a result of an

:19:30. > :19:34.investment in a carbon offset scheme, and another couple lost

:19:35. > :19:40.?38,000. The reality, Mr Deputy Speaker, is that if these couples

:19:41. > :19:45.have had their home burgled and lost those amounts of money, it is fair

:19:46. > :19:48.to say they would have had a more positive response from the police

:19:49. > :19:55.and other authorities, and they were to have had an investigating officer

:19:56. > :20:04.who they could personally contact. In the case I mentioned, reported to

:20:05. > :20:09.Action Fraud, the correspondence they have had amounts to this.

:20:10. > :20:15.Please find attached the report they have requested. We advise you to

:20:16. > :20:20.keep this safe. More information can be found on our website. That is not

:20:21. > :20:28.inspire confidence. Because this was a US-based investment, in despair,

:20:29. > :20:35.my constituents were seeking help and support from the US authorities.

:20:36. > :20:37.I must congratulate the New York police Department, who actually

:20:38. > :20:47.looked into the matter, came back to them and the Lieutenant e-mailed

:20:48. > :20:56.them, gave them his personal contact details and so on. That was a

:20:57. > :20:59.positive and helpful response. I quote from an e-mail from the

:21:00. > :21:03.constituents. My reason for writing is there appears to be little of the

:21:04. > :21:06.practical nature that the UK government is doing to support the

:21:07. > :21:10.victims of crime. I think it is fair to say, based on what the minister

:21:11. > :21:20.said, we are having a more positive response. I would point out this was

:21:21. > :21:25.written in 2014. We fell victim to an advisory scam, we wanted to

:21:26. > :21:33.invest in an ethical investment. I did as much research as I did on the

:21:34. > :21:43.Company and found little to dissuade us, although I was concerned about

:21:44. > :21:52.the cold calling. I was told that they would be happy to do with me,

:21:53. > :21:56.but I heard nothing. I was told by the police that they could not

:21:57. > :22:04.investigate further until Action Fraud reverted back to them. --

:22:05. > :22:09.referred it back to them. I have no doubt it has happened and will

:22:10. > :22:16.continue to happen to others. I wanted to let you know about the

:22:17. > :22:23.inadequacies of the support offered to victims of this such crime. The

:22:24. > :22:29.next involved what is a familiar scam, using the name of the well

:22:30. > :22:36.established and reputable organisation. As we heard earlier,

:22:37. > :22:41.being its contact details and letterheads and so on. Personal

:22:42. > :22:46.contact was made between three suppose it investment brokers and my

:22:47. > :22:53.constituent. They became very friendly and familiar with them.

:22:54. > :22:58.Therefore, it built up confidence that they could invest safely.

:22:59. > :23:00.Again, they did all the appropriate checks. Again, the had been referred

:23:01. > :23:14.to action fraud. -- Action Fraud. We should ensure that more referrals

:23:15. > :23:19.go back to the local police force so that action can be taken. I would

:23:20. > :23:24.urge the Minister and her colleagues to do what they can to ensure that

:23:25. > :23:29.our police and regulatory authorities take a much more serious

:23:30. > :23:34.approach to these, when people are actually losing their life savings.

:23:35. > :23:41.To be there, following my correspondent with Action Fraud, I

:23:42. > :23:45.have been invited to a programme by the City of London police to tell me

:23:46. > :23:50.of their activities. I hope that when I go they will be able to

:23:51. > :23:56.report something more positive. The honourable member for Solihull made

:23:57. > :24:05.mention of the chartered straight edge -- Trading Standards Institute.

:24:06. > :24:11.Victims tend to be elderly and less likely to use the web, and we must

:24:12. > :24:18.ensure that all mediums must be used to get the word out. One of the

:24:19. > :24:21.constituents told my senior caseworker about an unsolicited call

:24:22. > :24:26.he received from a company claiming his properly with incorrect it

:24:27. > :24:49.banned it in terms of council tax. For a fee of six to 9.99, Baker --

:24:50. > :24:58.they would fix the issue. The service offered in the

:24:59. > :25:02.unsolicited call was unnecessary. Other borough will constituents may

:25:03. > :25:06.be affected by this company and they're very questionable practices.

:25:07. > :25:12.My research staff looked into the history of the company which had

:25:13. > :25:17.office moves and changes of directorship. I requested a refund

:25:18. > :25:22.for my constituent but unfortunately the response was lamentable. My

:25:23. > :25:25.office then reported the situation to the local Trading Standards team

:25:26. > :25:47.on North Lanarkshire Council, who were extremely helpful. The fitted a

:25:48. > :25:54.blocking device, constituent's phone. Unfortunately, my constituent

:25:55. > :25:58.used a good card rather than a credit card so they were not able to

:25:59. > :26:02.get their money back. There is enhanced user protection when using

:26:03. > :26:08.a credit card. I am now aware of the company within my constituency which

:26:09. > :26:14.has a record of dubious sales practices throughout Scotland. It

:26:15. > :26:21.came to my attention when a man whose wife has dementia contacted

:26:22. > :26:25.me. They made an unsolicited visit, offering an external cosmetic

:26:26. > :26:32.service for the home. After taking an ?800 deposit, the Colony took

:26:33. > :26:35.over ?6,000 work of unnecessary cosmetic work to the House. So keen

:26:36. > :26:40.to get the money out of this couple, the company did not check to see if

:26:41. > :26:45.they owned the property, which they did not. Further research shows they

:26:46. > :26:54.claim to have a ten year guarantee. When -- on closer inspection, their

:26:55. > :26:57.practice is to have several companies offering the same service.

:26:58. > :27:00.The directors then fold the company when the heat becomes too great,

:27:01. > :27:05.moving the main business to one of the many other companies, always

:27:06. > :27:08.with the same two directors in charge. The guarantees are therefore

:27:09. > :27:13.not even worth the paper they are written on. This shop business

:27:14. > :27:15.practice also has a knock-on effect with communities, and creates

:27:16. > :27:20.reputational risk to other bona fides companies in an increasingly

:27:21. > :27:24.competitive market. It is difficult for consumers to work out which

:27:25. > :27:29.companies are trustworthy and which are untrustworthy.

:27:30. > :27:36.In many consumers believe that a ten year guarantee shows a company to be

:27:37. > :27:43.trustworthy. In this case nothing could be further from the truth. I

:27:44. > :27:49.also feel for the staff involved as they too may be unaware. I support

:27:50. > :27:53.the honourable member for Soliola and my honourable friend from North

:27:54. > :27:57.Ayrshire and Aaron, and orders the ministers to show the leadership

:27:58. > :28:03.needed to coordinate a strong public service response to these despicable

:28:04. > :28:10.practices. I want to join in congratulating my

:28:11. > :28:13.honourable friend from Solihull and my honourable member from North

:28:14. > :28:18.Ayrshire for securing this important debate. Financial scamming and fraud

:28:19. > :28:22.has a devastating impact on the elderly and the vulnerable. We have

:28:23. > :28:27.heard today from members on both sides of the House stories about

:28:28. > :28:31.financial loss and the incredible mental distress caused to people,

:28:32. > :28:36.many of whom are among the most vulnerable in our society. Each of

:28:37. > :28:40.us have constituents who have lost considerable sums of money to scams,

:28:41. > :28:43.with many falling victim because they are too trusting, because they

:28:44. > :28:48.underestimate the maliciousness of those who perpetrate these crimes,

:28:49. > :28:51.because there are subjected to a continual bombardment of nuisance

:28:52. > :28:56.calls and through desperation giving. Scammers are highly

:28:57. > :29:02.organised, they are predatory and exploitative. Yesterday the

:29:03. > :29:05.Stockport express, my local paper, reported that so far this year only

:29:06. > :29:12.300 people have fallen victim to fraud. This is as a result of cyber

:29:13. > :29:18.fraud, nuisance calls and bogus traders. In my constituency, Trading

:29:19. > :29:24.Standards have identified a recent scam where people have been told

:29:25. > :29:28.they are paid -- they are paid too much council tax, and are encouraged

:29:29. > :29:32.to part with banking details to gain a refund. Victims cannot even trust

:29:33. > :29:36.the numbers on their phones to be genuine anime or, as highlighted

:29:37. > :29:44.last night on BBC One's programme, rip-off Britain. -- any more. This

:29:45. > :29:50.scam allows fraudsters to phone victims under a number which appears

:29:51. > :29:55.to be genuine, like the bank. And this helps persuade them to part

:29:56. > :29:59.with sometimes large sums of money. So this type of crime is becoming

:30:00. > :30:03.even more sophisticated as criminals are able to ghost phone numbers and

:30:04. > :30:08.hijacked genuine phone numbers which appear legitimate. It is important

:30:09. > :30:16.we continue to take steps to address these new types of fraud as and when

:30:17. > :30:22.they appear. People who are ill, isolated and lonely at particularly

:30:23. > :30:25.affected by these types of crime. The Internet or phone line are often

:30:26. > :30:30.their only link to the world. Apart from financial loss, the feeling of

:30:31. > :30:35.safety in their own homes is undermined. They often become more

:30:36. > :30:40.isolated and distrusting. Mr Deputy Speaker, I welcome the initiative is

:30:41. > :30:45.to tackle this crime, such as the setting the giant task -- fraud task

:30:46. > :30:50.force earlier this year. I look forward to hearing their

:30:51. > :30:54.achievements and intelligence gathering. I am pleased there will

:30:55. > :30:59.be a better co-ordinated approach to the sharing of intelligence between

:31:00. > :31:02.banks and law enforcement agencies, that will address areas currently

:31:03. > :31:05.exploited by these fraudsters. I look forward to hearing from the

:31:06. > :31:10.minister what progress has been made in the few minutes -- months it has

:31:11. > :31:13.been established, in due course. It is vitally important we raise

:31:14. > :31:16.awareness about this important issue, so those most at risk can

:31:17. > :31:23.spot the scams and protect themselves. I welcome the work of

:31:24. > :31:26.groups like the chartered trading standards Institute and the

:31:27. > :31:30.ambassadors programme I support. I want to take some time, if I may, to

:31:31. > :31:35.address the language of scams, which was referred to by my honourable

:31:36. > :31:41.friend, the member from Sully Hall, area. The word scamming implies an

:31:42. > :31:45.idea of cult -- culpability or negligence on the part of the victim

:31:46. > :31:52.and may change how people view the nature of the crime. We use

:31:53. > :31:56.descriptions to say people have been scammed, Khan, cheated, but

:31:57. > :32:00.overwhelmingly they should be described as what they are. Good

:32:01. > :32:10.honest people who are victims of the most heartless fraudulent act. As a

:32:11. > :32:14.result the possibility the crime will be reported because of this

:32:15. > :32:21.language decreases. The victim will feel ashamed. I want to mention the

:32:22. > :32:25.importance of a long-term strategy. The elderly is a democratic --

:32:26. > :32:34.demographic group increasing year-on-year in. The severity and

:32:35. > :32:44.importance for greater Britain section is profound. -- greater

:32:45. > :32:48.protection. We must ensure the most vulnerable in society receive the

:32:49. > :32:53.appropriate support and assistance to protect them from falling victim

:32:54. > :33:00.to these devastating crimes. Mr Deputy Speaker, individuals have

:33:01. > :33:07.always sought to deceive and take advantage of the most vulnerable in

:33:08. > :33:09.society. As our world is increasingly moved online,

:33:10. > :33:13.transforming how we communicate, the way we do business and the way we

:33:14. > :33:18.live so much of our lives, sadly many of those fraudsters have used

:33:19. > :33:24.the same technologies to increase and, with ever more elaborate ways

:33:25. > :33:30.of defrauding vulnerable people. Indeed, action fraud estimates that

:33:31. > :33:41.around 70% of fraud is either conducted online or is cyber

:33:42. > :33:45.enabled. I think for most of us, casework relating to scams probably

:33:46. > :33:49.makes up a relatively small amount of our postbag and e-mail inboxes.

:33:50. > :33:56.That doesn't mean this isn't a sizeable problem. It's clear that

:33:57. > :34:02.many of the people most at risk of fraud and scams are also among the

:34:03. > :34:09.least likely to come forward to their MPs are even to the police and

:34:10. > :34:16.other agencies. Sadly, I don't need to speculate on this matter. Shortly

:34:17. > :34:19.before I was elected this year, a member of my family received a

:34:20. > :34:27.letter apparently from the Serious Fraud Office. Saying they needed

:34:28. > :34:33.help, ironically, to cash some serious fraudsters. -- catch. There

:34:34. > :34:40.was a telephone number supplied. Give the details. Money had to be

:34:41. > :34:47.transferred into an account which was used as some kind of trick for

:34:48. > :34:50.the fraudster. My relative wanted to help the authorities and transferred

:34:51. > :34:55.the money. Then of course there was another call saying, thank you very

:34:56. > :34:59.much for that. We just need that bit more money. This went on until,

:35:00. > :35:05.fortunately, the one time she went into a post office branch, the lady

:35:06. > :35:13.behind the counter knew my relative, knew that this was not normal

:35:14. > :35:16.conduct and contacted another relative with concerns. That was

:35:17. > :35:23.finally stopped but after several thousand pounds had been lost. They

:35:24. > :35:29.cannot be recovered. But more importantly, it has left my

:35:30. > :35:36.relative, who has always been proud, intelligent and independent, seeing

:35:37. > :35:43.themselves as clumsy and embarrassed. They feel stupid to

:35:44. > :35:48.have been taken in in such a way. We as a society must play a part in

:35:49. > :35:52.protecting the most vulnerable. This includes against fraudsters online

:35:53. > :36:00.or otherwise. From local authorities, police, members of our

:36:01. > :36:04.communities. Technologically savvy members of our communities. I was

:36:05. > :36:08.heartened to hear that my right honourable friend, who is now the

:36:09. > :36:13.Prime Minister, authorise the expansion of police volunteer roles

:36:14. > :36:16.to help with this. So that individuals with digital skills can

:36:17. > :36:21.support police digital investigations by providing the

:36:22. > :36:24.technical expertise to Sciver and digital units. I know this has been

:36:25. > :36:29.trialled and piloted in Hampshire and Gloucestershire. I hope to see

:36:30. > :36:37.this expanded much more widely around the country. There is also,

:36:38. > :36:44.surely, much more that could be done in partnership with financial

:36:45. > :36:50.services to trace these criminals. We are all familiar with the

:36:51. > :36:52.necessary anti-money-laundering regulation that means anybody

:36:53. > :36:59.wanting to set up a current account or anybody wanting to change

:37:00. > :37:08.signatories on a bank account, it can feel like an interminable

:37:09. > :37:14.process. And yet it is apparently possible to trace the bank accounts

:37:15. > :37:22.into which these transfers have been made, and even less likely that

:37:23. > :37:29.these monies will ever be recovered. This is something that is surely not

:37:30. > :37:33.beyond the wit of man and certainly of the people running these

:37:34. > :37:37.financial institutions, to do much more to ensure these are traced. It

:37:38. > :37:42.is simply not acceptable that people are vulnerable and victims are left

:37:43. > :37:46.scared in their own homes. Online threats have changed. The way

:37:47. > :37:54.respond to them must change so that we can protect vulnerable people in

:37:55. > :37:58.our communities. I would like to congratulate the honourable members

:37:59. > :38:02.for Sully Hall and North Ayrshire for securing this most important

:38:03. > :38:05.debate. -- Solihull. I would like to pay tribute to all speakers whose

:38:06. > :38:11.contributions have helped us to discuss this very important issue.

:38:12. > :38:14.Scamming is an increasing problem within our communities. Mostly

:38:15. > :38:18.targeting the elderly and the vulnerable. The average age is, I

:38:19. > :38:26.believe, 74. Even that the Office for National Statistics say the

:38:27. > :38:30.number of elderly people will increase significantly to over 15

:38:31. > :38:35.million by 2000 and 30, the potential for more scamming victims

:38:36. > :38:40.is likely to increase as well. -- 2030. It is not just the financial

:38:41. > :38:43.loss that causes pain. There can be severe psychological and emotional

:38:44. > :38:49.wounds that can take a considerable time to heal. Victims will

:38:50. > :38:53.inevitably suffer financial loss, but very often depression and

:38:54. > :38:56.possibly relationship breakdowns. What is terrifying is that

:38:57. > :39:04.potentially a third of all victims of scams will fall prey to another

:39:05. > :39:09.scam within 12 months. Mass mail scams coursed the UK consumer

:39:10. > :39:13.between one billion pounds and ?5 billion every year, with an average

:39:14. > :39:17.loss per person, as we have heard earlier, ?1000. Although it has been

:39:18. > :39:26.known for some victims to lose up to ?1 million. Earlier this week a

:39:27. > :39:30.gentleman lost his home to scammers. There are more than 190 trading

:39:31. > :39:36.standards services across the UK, each working to tackle scams in

:39:37. > :39:43.their area. However, the number of officers working on the front line

:39:44. > :39:46.has fallen by 53% since 2009. Due to cutbacks and budget pressures. And

:39:47. > :39:52.some service areas are running with less than one professionally trained

:39:53. > :39:56.member of staff. The current budget for Trading Standards services

:39:57. > :40:04.across the UK equates to just ?1 99 per person per year in the UK. These

:40:05. > :40:08.local teams are in place to step in whenever a victim of a financial

:40:09. > :40:13.scam is identified, and work with the police to help bring justice.

:40:14. > :40:18.However, the fact that only 5% of victims report crimes, often due to

:40:19. > :40:22.embarrassment, means that criminals continue to scam vulnerable people

:40:23. > :40:30.of their savings very often with little consequence. The national

:40:31. > :40:33.Trading Standards scams team was founded in 2012 and identifies

:40:34. > :40:39.vulnerable individuals to the local authority teams by using captured

:40:40. > :40:44.criminal databases. This team shares a ?13 million target, along with

:40:45. > :40:48.other financial crime teams, which is shockingly low when you consider

:40:49. > :40:56.that financial scammers cost UK consumers between ?5 billion and ?10

:40:57. > :41:00.billion every year. Trading Standards can tackle this issue more

:41:01. > :41:05.effectively with the partnership of other government agencies, such as

:41:06. > :41:09.the police and social care, by sharing intelligence and

:41:10. > :41:14.safeguarding victims. Both bodies are experiencing their own limited

:41:15. > :41:16.resources. Limiting the opportunities for partnerships with

:41:17. > :41:23.Trading Standards. Safeguards against scams harm and abuse need to

:41:24. > :41:28.be an integral part of scare and sport. This is a perfect example of

:41:29. > :41:30.the government cutting funding to vital services which will have a

:41:31. > :41:40.detrimental effect on the public. A vital tool is consumer awareness.

:41:41. > :41:45.Many websites actually sell marketing leads to any purchaser

:41:46. > :41:51.without restrictions. There are many websites that will allow you to

:41:52. > :41:53.purchase a list of personal details for market research. However, you

:41:54. > :42:00.don't actually deep to be in business to get them. One of these

:42:01. > :42:08.sites identified was Targets Located, who have a top ten of the

:42:09. > :42:18.you can scam. Disabled car buyers is number one, but they claim to have

:42:19. > :42:25.390,000 people receiving benefits who are ripe for scamming. Sites

:42:26. > :42:33.such as this are dedicated to making sure that, for a small fee, you can

:42:34. > :42:39.obtain details of the most viable people in society. Mr cheese on the

:42:40. > :42:48.sale of data will reduce the number of people falling victim to scams.

:42:49. > :42:54.In order to tackle the issue of scams, then is to be a reverse in

:42:55. > :42:58.the cuts to police funding. Should this continue, we will see more

:42:59. > :43:03.scams being conducted in our communities. Cooperation between

:43:04. > :43:06.Trading Standards and the police is vital, but it can only happen if

:43:07. > :43:10.they are given the resources they need. We have a moral responsibility

:43:11. > :43:16.to protect the elderly and vulnerable in our society. We have

:43:17. > :43:20.two ensure that the resources to do this are made available to the

:43:21. > :43:30.professionals who have the skills to best offer this protection.

:43:31. > :43:33.I thank all honourable and Right Honourable members for the

:43:34. > :43:38.conclusion to this debate. They have a variety of stories and concerns,

:43:39. > :43:42.highlighting that this touches so many of our constituents and in some

:43:43. > :43:50.businesses out immediate families. I walk the Minister to her place and

:43:51. > :43:55.commitment to focus on this most cruel of crimes. This is not just

:43:56. > :44:00.about government, but also about private firms, third sector and

:44:01. > :44:03.wider society in general. Mr Deputy Speaker, fraud will always be there.

:44:04. > :44:09.But we can make it harder for them if we act together. Marvellous. The

:44:10. > :44:16.question is as the order paper. As many of that opinion say I've. The

:44:17. > :44:24.ayes have it. We now come to the backbench motion

:44:25. > :44:28.on the fourth Industrial Revolution. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish

:44:29. > :44:35.to move as on the order paper, which is in my name and the honourable

:44:36. > :44:38.member of Portslade. I thank the backbench Business Committee for

:44:39. > :44:43.giving me the opportunity to debate this motion in the House today for

:44:44. > :44:47.the first time in this chamber. 250 years ago, the world's first

:44:48. > :44:51.Industrial Revolution began here in Britain. New engines, powered by

:44:52. > :44:54.coal and steam made my fractured goods and allowed them to be

:44:55. > :45:04.transported across the country on the new railways, roads, bridges and

:45:05. > :45:12.file tax -- viaducts. After two further industrial ages, versa

:45:13. > :45:15.driven by electors the antenna Electronics, we have reached the

:45:16. > :45:25.fourth industrial age. We have seen a fusion of technologies that blur

:45:26. > :45:32.the boundaries between physical, electronic and biological spheres.

:45:33. > :45:37.Breakthroughs in new products in fields such as artificial

:45:38. > :45:42.intelligence, driverless cars, drones, 3-D printing and technology

:45:43. > :45:46.to name a few have captured the imagination of the public and

:45:47. > :45:51.challenged policymakers. The offer economic growth and advantages to

:45:52. > :45:59.countries that seizes opportunities as well as lower prices, and grated

:46:00. > :46:04.choice for consumers. They will also disrupt every industry in every

:46:05. > :46:07.country. The pose profound challenges, especially to countries

:46:08. > :46:14.and community 's that are unprepared or unresponsive. At the global

:46:15. > :46:22.level, the world -- the world economic Forum has become

:46:23. > :46:29.interested. At this House, we have a role in leading the debate,

:46:30. > :46:38.understanding the challenges and making it a success. Today's debate

:46:39. > :46:44.is all the more timely and relevant. My view on this issue is clear, we

:46:45. > :46:47.are in a global race for success. We must actively seize the

:46:48. > :46:51.opportunities presented by this to drive economic growth, enhancing the

:46:52. > :46:59.technology and social changes it brings for the nation's benefit. We

:47:00. > :47:04.must become a new leader in the global economy. To do this, we must

:47:05. > :47:09.take a proactive, free-market approach. We must prepare for

:47:10. > :47:14.destructive technologies, not just react to them. We must make

:47:15. > :47:19.mastering the fourth Industrial Revolution part of the strategy. As

:47:20. > :47:24.we launch the first industrial pollution 250 years ago, we must

:47:25. > :47:30.lead the new one in this century. To understand the scale of the

:47:31. > :47:33.innovations taking place on a practical scale, must consider the

:47:34. > :47:43.new products and services that are already transforming the way we live

:47:44. > :47:45.and work. The 4IR's advances are interconnectivity and machine

:47:46. > :47:52.learning and artificial intelligence. They give rise to

:47:53. > :47:58.possibly disruptive technologies such as 3D printing, driverless cars

:47:59. > :48:02.and others. The lead towards a fusion that will streamline

:48:03. > :48:07.production and deliver new products that does truly revolutionary. I

:48:08. > :48:11.will give way. I am grateful. Well done to my honourable friend and

:48:12. > :48:15.county colleague for securing this debate. I recognise the four

:48:16. > :48:20.technologies that underpinned the revolution. Will he agree that there

:48:21. > :48:25.are others which were revolution rise our lives, not least synthetic

:48:26. > :48:29.biology in which we are a world leader. Would he support me in on

:48:30. > :48:34.courage in the Government and the Minister to revive the bigger that

:48:35. > :48:37.is needed for the eight great technologies policy which the

:48:38. > :48:44.Government adopted not four years ago. I thank him for his

:48:45. > :48:47.intervention. He has a passionate record in this field, so I support

:48:48. > :48:54.him in this field I look forward to working with him on that. What he

:48:55. > :48:57.says Professor transition from the digitisation of information to the

:48:58. > :49:00.real fusion of technologies, whether they be by logical, physical or

:49:01. > :49:07.digital. It is already conceivable in future that entire factories

:49:08. > :49:13.could become automated, requiring only energy and materials to be

:49:14. > :49:16.running 24 hours a day. Simile, the 4IR is blurring the lines between

:49:17. > :49:23.Manny factoring and service as networked product make life easier

:49:24. > :49:29.for consumers. Smart boilers bring order spare parts, and the already

:49:30. > :49:35.making their way into the market. This fast moving market also present

:49:36. > :49:42.opportunities for Britain's SMEs, which are the most nimble. An

:49:43. > :49:50.excellent examples comes from my constituency, where a local start-up

:49:51. > :49:53.is getting a head start in the 4IR market by trading in 3-D printers

:49:54. > :49:58.and how to use them. They have seized the opportunity is to create

:49:59. > :50:04.new jobs in a new industry and generating new wealth. I will give

:50:05. > :50:08.way. Again, I give praise for securing this exhume the important

:50:09. > :50:11.debate and I suspect this is a subject we'll come back too many

:50:12. > :50:16.times in the coming decades if not centuries. Would he agree that one

:50:17. > :50:22.of the important changes we need to think about here in this House is

:50:23. > :50:33.the change to personal law. The first two file secures patterns. If

:50:34. > :50:49.you wait until it is the first to file, you advantage large companies

:50:50. > :50:59.who can file may patterns. Intellectual property is key to

:51:00. > :51:10.making us a forerunner in the industries. The business of my

:51:11. > :51:12.constituents have clients such as Rolls Royce and Pinewood Studios.

:51:13. > :51:16.Larger businesses which might or will friend also mentioned can bring

:51:17. > :51:25.scale and expertise to the process as well. Lockheed Martin, for

:51:26. > :51:33.example, has data expertise helps Royal Mail track parcels more

:51:34. > :51:40.efficiently. These new disruptive 4IR industries allow us to generate

:51:41. > :51:46.new economic growth. What is clear is that the country is best -- the

:51:47. > :51:54.country's best able to take advantage of 4IR are those who move

:51:55. > :52:06.quickly. I hope this government will continue to focus on pro-enterprise

:52:07. > :52:13.policies that make the theUK a forerunner in this revolution. The

:52:14. > :52:15.economic benefits must be shared throughout the country, not just

:52:16. > :52:22.concentrated in London and the south-east. Regional investment

:52:23. > :52:33.funds for 4IR technologies must assimilate growth outside the M25.

:52:34. > :52:37.-- must produce growth. Other advanced economies such as

:52:38. > :52:41.Israel already play a key role in helping new sectors develop and our

:52:42. > :52:43.covenant should do the same. Britain must continue to invest in its

:52:44. > :52:49.digital infrastructure which is as essential as today as railways were

:52:50. > :52:57.in the age of steam. It should include a new age of fibre-optic

:52:58. > :53:07.Internet roll-out. I draw his attention to a report which is

:53:08. > :53:13.forthcoming that will lay out more. Whilst the Dwight Gayle will bring

:53:14. > :53:18.benefits, it also caused challenges as well. By shaping how it evolves,

:53:19. > :53:20.we can tackle this head on. Automation increasingly substituents

:53:21. > :53:26.for human labour, and so the disbursement of workers could result

:53:27. > :53:29.in short-term and implement in low-wage sectors of the economy. The

:53:30. > :53:35.Government has a way to dampening the down side effects of the 4IR,

:53:36. > :53:44.but it is the -- in particular by urging the gap -- by bridging the

:53:45. > :53:46.gap. The technology that I have talked about and destruction it may

:53:47. > :53:53.bring is not some external force over which we have no control

:53:54. > :54:05.whatsoever. All of us have a responsibility to shape how it

:54:06. > :54:11.gross. -- how it grows. As the fourth Industrial Revolution

:54:12. > :54:17.gathers pace, we must embrace it, harnesses benefits and she bids

:54:18. > :54:31.revolution. -- and embrace its evolution. Gutman has a key for the

:54:32. > :54:37.play in this. We must address the challenges as well. It must not

:54:38. > :54:46.consist of changes that happened to us but changes that work for us all.

:54:47. > :54:51.Throughout our history, Britain has adopted an approach to it that

:54:52. > :54:59.encourages development and innovation. We must adopt the same

:55:00. > :55:04.forward-thinking, pro-innovation approach when it comes to the 4IR.

:55:05. > :55:08.In Britain, we reach for the future rather than just yearning for the

:55:09. > :55:12.past. As before, the new wave technology will change can bring

:55:13. > :55:19.substantial benefits, from greater productivity and lower batching

:55:20. > :55:24.costs to new choice for consumers. I hope we will take that approach by

:55:25. > :55:32.placing 4IR at the heart of its strategy. In doing so, we can -- in

:55:33. > :55:44.a new Renaissance, launch a new industrial era and give Great

:55:45. > :55:51.Britain its place in the upcoming revolution. The question is as on

:55:52. > :55:56.the order paper. It feels like getting to the airport and being

:55:57. > :56:01.upgraded. I'm very grateful to the honourable member for including me

:56:02. > :56:05.in this discussion that led to this debate and allow me to second it. It

:56:06. > :56:10.is a privilege. He spoke brilliantly then. Listening to him speak, it

:56:11. > :56:15.made me realise how exciting and exhilarating the idea of the 4IR

:56:16. > :56:18.actually is. One aspect of this revolution should have every

:56:19. > :56:24.decision maker and our comic on high alert, and that is the rapidity with

:56:25. > :56:27.which is occurring. The 4IR will sweep through our economy in a

:56:28. > :56:28.number of years, not the centuries it took the previous Industrial

:56:29. > :56:39.Revolution is to unfold. Sadly we have been fed on a diet of

:56:40. > :56:44.drones to deliver our groceries, which has a certain tomorrow's world

:56:45. > :56:46.feeling about it. But the truth is this revolution is already under

:56:47. > :56:51.way. Consumers are already controlling their home heating and

:56:52. > :56:56.security by using mobile phones. Hand-held devices are controlling

:56:57. > :57:00.worldwide events by the cloud. It is happening today but we're barely

:57:01. > :57:06.crossed the start line in this race. Microsoft is investing ?5 billion

:57:07. > :57:10.worldwide to build a data centre infrastructure which gives us the

:57:11. > :57:14.idea of the scale of transformation yet to come. Advancements in

:57:15. > :57:18.nanotechnology, 3D printing and renewable energy are opening up a

:57:19. > :57:23.multiplicity of opportunities for medical, academic and industrial

:57:24. > :57:28.research. Our universities are also rising up to the challenge. Next

:57:29. > :57:32.year the University of Sussex will open a new ?10 million Centre for

:57:33. > :57:39.computing, robotic electronics and Megatron X. -- meta- Travelex. I

:57:40. > :57:45.will welcome an intervention to tell me what that actually means. Maybe

:57:46. > :57:48.we can discover together! While many of these new trends will be powerful

:57:49. > :57:52.enough to break through regardless of market conditions, there are

:57:53. > :57:55.several barriers that will need dealing with. The private sector

:57:56. > :57:59.will need to tackle the threat of data security. Cyber threats pose a

:58:00. > :58:03.real world problems to those affected. And a psychological

:58:04. > :58:06.barrier to those who haven't. The private sector must invest in

:58:07. > :58:10.management skills to ensure businesses can be effectively lead

:58:11. > :58:15.through this change. They must also put the territorial needs of their

:58:16. > :58:21.business aside to ensure that the technology works across platforms

:58:22. > :58:25.and geographical areas. There are also challenges the government must

:58:26. > :58:29.be active in supporting our economy to overcome. The first is the

:58:30. > :58:33.infrastructure for the future economy, namely the Internet.

:58:34. > :58:38.Internet speeds are growing by the consumers and commerce going forward

:58:39. > :58:42.will equally need reliability as well as speed. But the biggest

:58:43. > :58:47.challenge we must overcome, in my opinion, is that of making sure that

:58:48. > :58:52.the next generation are equipped with the skills needed to

:58:53. > :58:56.collectively contribute to our economy of the future and personally

:58:57. > :59:00.thrive on it. At present there is a real danger that the rate of change

:59:01. > :59:05.in our economy is not matched by the ability to produce and retain the

:59:06. > :59:08.skills needed. I am a supporter of the apprenticeship levy but I do

:59:09. > :59:12.believe it is being rolled out too fast to ensure that the benefits

:59:13. > :59:18.reach all parts of our economy. Nowhere is this more acute than in

:59:19. > :59:21.the technology centre. Here, post-16 training is too late. It needs to

:59:22. > :59:26.happen pre-16 and preferably from primary school boards. In order to

:59:27. > :59:29.develop the programming and high levels of creativity and creative

:59:30. > :59:34.thinking that is needed by cutting technology firms. At present,

:59:35. > :59:40.forcing large technology companies to pay for post-16 development could

:59:41. > :59:46.have the diverse effect of diverting funding away from pre-16 funding in

:59:47. > :59:51.schools and end up recruiting from abroad. The key goal is to equip our

:59:52. > :59:55.students and young people with the social, creative and academic skills

:59:56. > :00:00.they will need in a fast evolving economy. To date, this has not been

:00:01. > :00:04.achieved and I agree with the former Tory minister, Lord Baker, when he

:00:05. > :00:07.says that the back to basics approach for curriculum is

:00:08. > :00:13.preventing the social and creative development we need. And a report

:00:14. > :00:17.from a foundation each years -- chairs. He says the government White

:00:18. > :00:22.Paper has a firm commitment for students to focus on seven academic

:00:23. > :00:28.subjects at GCSE. In this language, literature, maths, two sciences, a

:00:29. > :00:32.mother and ancient language, geography and history, plus possibly

:00:33. > :00:37.a third science. This is the curriculum laid down by the

:00:38. > :00:40.education act of 1904, although that add three extra subjects, drawing,

:00:41. > :00:46.cooking for girls and carpentry for boys. I have no doubt that had the

:00:47. > :00:50.member for Surrey Heath ended up as Education Secretary for just one

:00:51. > :00:55.more week, we would have had those three subjects on the curriculum as

:00:56. > :00:58.well! We should not go back to the 19th-century diet of academic

:00:59. > :01:02.subjects for all, Lord Baker says. All young people should make and do

:01:03. > :01:06.things as part of a broad and balanced curriculum. Mr Deputy

:01:07. > :01:10.Speaker, emotional intelligence will be as important to the future

:01:11. > :01:16.economy of our country as academic intelligence has been in the past.

:01:17. > :01:19.According to the manufacturers organisation, EES, staff skills are

:01:20. > :01:23.the number one need for the manufacturers as well. It is

:01:24. > :01:26.important to remember the fourth industrial revolution is not only

:01:27. > :01:32.about the digital. It is about the Manufacturing. Britain must have

:01:33. > :01:36.confidence as we move into this next stage of economic life, and except

:01:37. > :01:40.that the same potential, we have the same potential to make things as we

:01:41. > :01:43.did in the first industrial revolution. It was 30 years ago

:01:44. > :01:50.today that Margaret Thatcher opened the Nissan factory in Sunderland. I

:01:51. > :01:55.allow the benches opposite to celebrate. Back then people thought

:01:56. > :01:59.our automotive industry was on its last legs will stop now we know it

:02:00. > :02:04.is one of the most advanced and successful in the world. 30 years

:02:05. > :02:09.ago car doors closed with a loud clunk, today it is with a soft

:02:10. > :02:13.click. That is because of the huge effort and expense that goes into

:02:14. > :02:16.material design and innovation in our country, and explains why this

:02:17. > :02:22.part of our economy can and must work in tandem and not apart from

:02:23. > :02:26.the revolution that is unfolding. The manufacturing sector will

:02:27. > :02:30.contribute to and benefit from the fourth industrial revolution. It has

:02:31. > :02:36.a lot to offer and it has a lot to gain. The progress made by Jaguar

:02:37. > :02:40.Land Rover and Nissan since the 1980s shows what can be achieved if

:02:41. > :02:44.Britain's foundation industries, including the use of metals and

:02:45. > :02:50.materials, are used properly. This has the potential to benefit our new

:02:51. > :02:55.economy massively. From steel and ceramics, and coatings and graphing,

:02:56. > :03:00.this ?200 billion sector has the potential and the innovation -- to

:03:01. > :03:05.provide innovation and materials that are strong and light enough to

:03:06. > :03:09.make the robotic dreams of tomorrow a reality. I can sense my honourable

:03:10. > :03:13.friend from Stoke-on-Trent North twitching at the mention of

:03:14. > :03:21.ceramics. I will be listening out for her intervention shortly. But

:03:22. > :03:27.this sector is omitted from the government centres. I hope that the

:03:28. > :03:31.Minister will listen to the voices of this sector and play an active

:03:32. > :03:34.part in bridging any gaps there may be between this sector and the

:03:35. > :03:42.technological sector of the fourth revolution. And the benefits in this

:03:43. > :03:46.sector, the benefits to this sector from the unfolding revolution, are

:03:47. > :03:49.also clear. Supply chains dots and lines will move towards a system of

:03:50. > :03:59.end to end decision-making by machines. In short, there will be

:04:00. > :04:04.less error. There will be more efficiency and higher productivity.

:04:05. > :04:07.And finally, I would like to move to the other end of our economy. This

:04:08. > :04:11.revolution will impact the self-employed as well as the

:04:12. > :04:17.technological giants and the manufacturers. Between 2000 and 2015

:04:18. > :04:21.British people working alone rose by 73%, the largest growth has been the

:04:22. > :04:25.service sector, primarily supplying education, health and business

:04:26. > :04:33.services. The fourth industrial revolution will transform these

:04:34. > :04:37.connection, virtualisation and their cloud experiences. Huge power that

:04:38. > :04:40.has only been available to large companies in public sector

:04:41. > :04:44.departments will now be readily available to individuals. One person

:04:45. > :04:47.with the right skills and the right imagination will have the power and

:04:48. > :04:52.the capacity to make transformational impact on the

:04:53. > :04:56.economy of the future. The challenge we face, Mr Speaker, is to make sure

:04:57. > :05:01.that this power is available to everybody, from whatever background.

:05:02. > :05:04.I do not believe that entrepreneurial spirit is the gift

:05:05. > :05:08.of middle classes. I believe it is a gift to humanity. Unless we equip

:05:09. > :05:12.every young person with the right skills, many will find the door to

:05:13. > :05:16.modern life and all its wonders slammed in their face. The time to

:05:17. > :05:24.ensure this does not happen is now. Thank you. Thank you Mr Deputy

:05:25. > :05:27.Speaker. They are also starred by congratulating my honourable friend

:05:28. > :05:33.from haven't for securing this very important debate. But also say how

:05:34. > :05:39.delighted I am to follow the honourable member for holes in this

:05:40. > :05:44.debate. And thank him as a colleague on the select committee for yet

:05:45. > :05:48.another excellent contribution. Industry 4.0, we'll call it

:05:49. > :05:54.different things, is an extremely dynamic prospect and something that

:05:55. > :05:58.the UK must fully embrace in the years to come. I don't know if we

:05:59. > :06:03.can talk about centuries to come as my colleague mentioned earlier. I

:06:04. > :06:06.know what he was trying to say. As the co-chairman of the all-party

:06:07. > :06:09.Manufacturing group, I appreciate the importance of raising the

:06:10. > :06:14.awareness of the whole of this topic. I think this gives us a great

:06:15. > :06:19.opportunity to do so. I was very pleased in my intervention in the

:06:20. > :06:23.business questions this morning to have encouragement from the leader

:06:24. > :06:27.of the House to raise strategy, industrial strategy, with the

:06:28. > :06:31.backbench business committee. I would hope that the member for

:06:32. > :06:39.haven't would join me in making that application. The use of technology

:06:40. > :06:44.to aid production is not new. But the advancement of digital machinery

:06:45. > :06:50.in the last decade has brought to light the concept of this industrial

:06:51. > :06:54.Revolution. The first saw the Victorians rapidly improving their

:06:55. > :06:59.wealth and their economic outlook. We must not underestimate the

:07:00. > :07:05.to change and have a similar impact to change and have a similar impact

:07:06. > :07:09.on the way that we do things now. A particular point to stress is that

:07:10. > :07:15.other nations are advancing on this. This is why we must keep up.

:07:16. > :07:17.Countries such as Japan and Germany are already understanding the

:07:18. > :07:24.benefits of these technologies. We cannot allow them to have this

:07:25. > :07:27.window to themselves. Through life engineering services is one way in

:07:28. > :07:32.which we can help innovation which we can help innovation

:07:33. > :07:37.flourish in the UK. The aims of tests are to improve availability,

:07:38. > :07:40.predictability, reliability of complex engineering products, to

:07:41. > :07:44.deliver the lowest possible whole life costs. This is an area we can

:07:45. > :07:49.take the lead in. I recently spoke at the launch of the new test

:07:50. > :07:55.national strategy. And I believe that such a focus on improvement is

:07:56. > :08:01.an important way forward. But more broadly, we need to act now to

:08:02. > :08:05.compete internationally. The adoption of cyber physical systems

:08:06. > :08:10.that are able to collect data, provide insights and be used on a

:08:11. > :08:17.large scale in heavy industries, is vital for UK Manufacturing moving

:08:18. > :08:19.forward. Machines using self optimisation and self

:08:20. > :08:23.configurations, allow complex tasks to be completed in a way that

:08:24. > :08:27.dramatically increases cost efficiencies and delivers better

:08:28. > :08:35.quality. The potential obviously is immense. Businesses will be able to

:08:36. > :08:39.streamline production. Reduce waste. Conduct rapid prototyping. Exploit

:08:40. > :08:47.engage with customers in real-time. engage with customers in real-time.

:08:48. > :08:49.European Parliament briefing paper estimates improvements in efficiency

:08:50. > :08:55.is between 6% and 8% can be is between 6% and 8% can be

:08:56. > :09:01.achieved. In Germany alone, it will add one could -- 1% of GDP to the

:09:02. > :09:04.economy. One of the recurring themes from meetings of the all-party

:09:05. > :09:10.Manufacturing group is the need to plug the skills gap. As mentioned in

:09:11. > :09:16.the group's submission to the enquiry into the productivity plan,

:09:17. > :09:20.the current level of available skills in the UK is inadequate for

:09:21. > :09:24.the future success of Manufacturing. Satisfying this need for

:09:25. > :09:28.higher-level skills is vital for productivity and can be done in a

:09:29. > :09:32.number of ways. Firms need to invest in increasing the capacity and a

:09:33. > :09:38.flow of talented individuals into the work force must be continuous,

:09:39. > :09:47.with apprenticeships a notable factor in making this difference.

:09:48. > :09:51.Industry 4.0 and its associated benefits a way of speeding up this

:09:52. > :09:54.process. Where we can improve the outlook of a skills shortage and

:09:55. > :10:00.hope the government can enhance its support in this regard. Backing of

:10:01. > :10:05.UK catapult centres is proving to be extremely successful. The Digital

:10:06. > :10:10.economy Bill, which seeks to improve our digital infrastructure, it is an

:10:11. > :10:15.encouraging indication of the government's commitment. We should

:10:16. > :10:17.continue to look at all possibilities to secure the UK's

:10:18. > :10:23.role as a leading research and nation. Investment in R will

:10:24. > :10:32.encourage new production in the UK as well as further... R tax

:10:33. > :10:36.credits have been a major boost for small and medium-sized enterprises.

:10:37. > :10:40.Another recurring theme in discussing the future of

:10:41. > :10:42.Manufacturing is the re-shoring of production, and the significant

:10:43. > :10:49.impact this has on the sector and the national economy as a whole. To

:10:50. > :10:51.enhance our efforts, an increase in intelligent automation can be a

:10:52. > :10:58.significant driver of economic growth. With a significant change,

:10:59. > :11:03.new business models should be analysed and the adoption of the

:11:04. > :11:09.concept of industry 4.0 fully considered. The significant

:11:10. > :11:15.investment needed to prevent small and medium sized businesses that may

:11:16. > :11:17.be hindered in the medium term, considering the high level of

:11:18. > :11:26.funding needed to pursue such systems. This use of data

:11:27. > :11:35.protection, the large volume of data used, is gone be sensitive.

:11:36. > :11:41.It is imperative that legislation around data protection is tight

:11:42. > :11:46.before businesses can be confident in changing their business models.

:11:47. > :11:51.Just to name one more challenge that I see in the digitisation of the

:11:52. > :11:57.market, there is a concern that our talent pool will lack the service

:11:58. > :12:05.skills to operate machinery, encompassed by economy 4.0. We need

:12:06. > :12:09.more experts in ICT, which is enhanced by the need of cyber

:12:10. > :12:15.security and the transfer of big data. We need to ensure that the

:12:16. > :12:22.whole system, including education and friendships, work is in harmony

:12:23. > :12:27.to provide the necessary skills. The industrial strategy is relevant in

:12:28. > :12:30.this respect. It is therefore clear that we have an incredible

:12:31. > :12:35.opportunity to rapidly advancement factoring in the UK. This debate is

:12:36. > :12:39.an excellent way of starting the discussion around how we go about

:12:40. > :12:49.embracing these new technologies and how we overcome the challenges in

:12:50. > :12:58.doing so. It is impossible to not remember the

:12:59. > :13:07.lessons from history when we talk about best embracing new technology

:13:08. > :13:13.into everyday life. Without James Watt, we would not be talking about

:13:14. > :13:20.the first industrial revolution, let alone a fourth.

:13:21. > :13:29.For hundreds of years, we let the way in shipbuilding innovation such

:13:30. > :13:35.as the Comet, which offered the most successful steamboat service in

:13:36. > :13:43.Europe. It provided hundreds of jobs. Thread the 19th and 20th

:13:44. > :13:46.century, shipyards remain world leading innovators, reducing the

:13:47. > :13:53.most advanced warships of the day and the most advanced merchant ships

:13:54. > :13:57.in the world. It was not a perfect industry, but people could take

:13:58. > :14:00.pride in their work and without hesitation we could declare that it

:14:01. > :14:07.was an integral part of Scotland's story as a nation. The UK government

:14:08. > :14:14.withdrew funding for shipbuilding in the 1980s. By 1986, male

:14:15. > :14:20.unemployment in Glasgow had risen to 26%. The UK government told us that

:14:21. > :14:25.the private sector would create jobs or publicly supported industries --

:14:26. > :14:31.where publicly supported industries had failed. A McDonald's restaurant

:14:32. > :14:40.is now situated where the wall of the shipyard once stood. In 1988,

:14:41. > :14:46.Margaret Thatcher visited an IBM plant to show how we would

:14:47. > :14:55.transition into new technologies. IBM will permanently end its

:14:56. > :14:57.involvement later this month. The first three Industrial Revolution

:14:58. > :15:05.saw brought success to Inverclyde but adult at the end it with periods

:15:06. > :15:10.of rapid decline. They created well for factory owners and international

:15:11. > :15:15.Company 's, but workers have been left to pick up the pieces when the

:15:16. > :15:21.industries ended. Inverclyde now suffers from depopulation. Public

:15:22. > :15:24.sectors are struggling to survive in the Shadow of those is Oracle

:15:25. > :15:30.failures. The point of this history lesson is this. Inverclyde shows us

:15:31. > :15:33.that technological innovation will never reach its full potential if it

:15:34. > :15:38.lacks a social conscience. The motion before us today states the UK

:15:39. > :15:41.is in a strong position to take advantage of the Fourth Industrial

:15:42. > :15:47.Revolution. In my constituency, I would argue that we have not yet

:15:48. > :15:51.resolved the issues around the decline of the previous

:15:52. > :15:59.technological ages. Undoubtedly, it can be part of the solution. What is

:16:00. > :16:11.to jobs is like mine -- constituencies like mine... The UK

:16:12. > :16:16.governorate has an obligation to help constituencies like Inverclyde

:16:17. > :16:21.to make up for its failures of the past. I would like to see them take

:16:22. > :16:26.extraordinary measures to help and take advantage of the fourth

:16:27. > :16:31.revolution. We know that it will be a major component of the future and

:16:32. > :16:32.technological innovation. Inverclyde will be well-placed take advantage

:16:33. > :16:37.of these developments. It is one of of these developments. It is one of

:16:38. > :16:42.the few areas with a geography that can utilise almost all forms of

:16:43. > :16:50.renewable technology. We mostly have tidal power and enough hills to

:16:51. > :16:54.facilitate wind power. They can power hydro schemes as they did in

:16:55. > :16:59.the past. Solar will never fulfil all about requirements, but it could

:17:00. > :17:04.be a valuable contributor. We already produce biomass fuels under

:17:05. > :17:10.which its produce all over Scotland that were produced in Inverclyde.

:17:11. > :17:17.These sites could be centres of manufacturing once again. Our port

:17:18. > :17:32.facilities Menard beat evil -- may be able to take them to their

:17:33. > :17:38.destinations. While I welcome the UK's approach, but they will not

:17:39. > :17:42.fully utilised areas like Inverclyde. We now see a lack of

:17:43. > :17:54.vision. Renewables could transport Inverclyde. Policies are stifling

:17:55. > :18:03.that potential. There has been a withdrawal of the support that was

:18:04. > :18:08.available. They are actively damaging the area that could make

:18:09. > :18:13.the area vibrant once again. The Fourth Industrial Revolution offers

:18:14. > :18:20.so much, smart money factoring, increasingly intricate technologies

:18:21. > :18:23.and household appliances that could connect to the Internet. What my

:18:24. > :18:29.constituents asking for is employment. Not low-level, poorly

:18:30. > :18:32.paid jobs, but skilled, high-value employment that will boost other

:18:33. > :18:38.businesses and educational is due ships in the area. The Industrial

:18:39. > :18:46.Revolution failed to pull the landed pull out of poverty. Wealth has been

:18:47. > :18:48.speculated by a smaller and smaller section of society. I want to see

:18:49. > :18:54.the Government must treat two things. First, how they plan on to

:18:55. > :18:59.driving forward the Fourth Industrial Revolution and secondly

:19:00. > :19:06.how this technology will be used to benefit the social and economic

:19:07. > :19:13.situation of everyone in society. It could lead to a period of unrivalled

:19:14. > :19:18.prosperity for this country. Without stewardship, these new technologies

:19:19. > :19:23.will only reinforce social, gender and regional inequalities. I'm

:19:24. > :19:27.grateful for him giving way. I wasn't in the chamber yesterday

:19:28. > :19:31.afternoon when I spoke on climate change. I would inform him that

:19:32. > :19:43.through the employment of some of these new technologies, the guys

:19:44. > :19:47.Anson told -- a hospital has installed a plant that will save

:19:48. > :19:52.costs in which they have done because the technology is there and

:19:53. > :20:04.they have sought to adopted, which is doing an immediate good. Biomass

:20:05. > :20:09.heating is a fantastic technology. It is part of a mix that is needed

:20:10. > :20:13.if we will get this right. Finally, want to see a fairer and more

:20:14. > :20:19.prosperous society. One that has opportunities for our young people.

:20:20. > :20:21.Without that sense of progress and social justice, technological

:20:22. > :20:26.advancements will only work against those who need the most assistance.

:20:27. > :20:29.It is time the UK government shows the industrial strategy will benefit

:20:30. > :20:34.working people. If they are unwilling to do so, then transfer

:20:35. > :20:46.the power to Scotland and let us get on with the job. Thank you. This is

:20:47. > :20:48.a record for me speaking twice in 25 hours. I'm grateful for the

:20:49. > :20:55.opportunity. I congratulate my honourable friend, who has secured a

:20:56. > :21:00.worthwhile debate and opened it brilliantly. I apologise for being

:21:01. > :21:06.late to the debate. I was working on the energy and climate change select

:21:07. > :21:08.committee's paper on the renewable heat and transportation targets

:21:09. > :21:13.which is being released this evening. I commend it to the House,

:21:14. > :21:17.it is one of the most insightful committee reports that you will read

:21:18. > :21:22.all year. As they all are! Yesterday, the Minister use some

:21:23. > :21:25.fantastic theatrical references which I hope will become a tradition

:21:26. > :21:29.of his summing up speeches. I know he has and its orthopaedic knowledge

:21:30. > :21:36.of the better, so we look forward to that. -- and encyclopaedic

:21:37. > :21:42.knowledge. I hope to talk about some of the energy opportunities that

:21:43. > :21:49.come from the collision of emerging technologies and our existing energy

:21:50. > :21:51.infrastructure. There is some dispute over whether we're on the

:21:52. > :21:58.third or fourth Industrial Revolution. This book has become a

:21:59. > :22:03.bit of the Bible for me, as I sought to develop my thinking on how energy

:22:04. > :22:07.policy might evolve. He thinks it is the third Industrial Revolution, but

:22:08. > :22:15.nonetheless it is an excellent read and is very much pulling in the same

:22:16. > :22:16.direction as those who are advocating the Fourth Industrial

:22:17. > :22:20.Revolution. When the front bench will have seen and looked in great

:22:21. > :22:24.details at the international industry commission's Smart Power

:22:25. > :22:29.report, which is a fantastic publication for setting out how we

:22:30. > :22:37.do harness all of these wonderful technologies as we digitise the

:22:38. > :22:40.energy system. The reality is we could save ?8 billion a year for the

:22:41. > :22:46.UK economy if we seek to digitise our energy system and to harness

:22:47. > :22:50.these technologies. Those are immediate savings in terms of how

:22:51. > :22:54.much we save energy bills, but also gains in productivity as well. The

:22:55. > :23:00.head of the National Grid was on the BBC today programme last week, she

:23:01. > :23:02.was saying that we are seeing a smart energy revolution across the

:23:03. > :23:09.country, with adjustments reflecting Ben energy is cheapest. To most

:23:10. > :23:16.people, that means a bit of a nightmare, you have to change your

:23:17. > :23:19.consumption habits in order to meet the market. The reality is, we have

:23:20. > :23:25.many of the technologies in our homes already. Most major white

:23:26. > :23:28.goods malefactors are producing smart appliances already. They are

:23:29. > :23:33.in our shops and would probably have them in our homes. Through the

:23:34. > :23:36.Internet of things, they will start to speak to one another to make sure

:23:37. > :23:40.that they are operating at the time that is most efficient, most

:23:41. > :23:43.cost-effective. They are reporting faults so you don't carry on for

:23:44. > :23:50.years having a fridge that is using more power than it should because it

:23:51. > :23:57.has already flagged its faults to the manufacturer. It is not going to

:23:58. > :24:00.be a case of opting into them because they are building them as

:24:01. > :24:05.standard and will increasingly do so. There is a challenge, I think,

:24:06. > :24:08.for the Government in terms of preparing our homes and businesses

:24:09. > :24:14.and society for the Internet of things from an energy perspective. I

:24:15. > :24:17.have got some thoughts on Apple purchased before moving onto

:24:18. > :24:21.examples of where we are seeing huge economic advantages of those. The

:24:22. > :24:27.smart meter programme is the keystone in achieving this

:24:28. > :24:37.digitisation of our system. The front bench will be pushing that out

:24:38. > :24:45.as soon as possible. When we bring it into the energy space as others

:24:46. > :24:54.smart meat as being in place. Similarly, the way that our great is

:24:55. > :25:03.put together as we want to be able to speak in real-time about what it

:25:04. > :25:08.is it a -- what it is it is producing. At the moment,

:25:09. > :25:10.effectively, you have to pay for the energy twice, when it is generated

:25:11. > :25:17.and there when it is released from storage. That cannot be the case for

:25:18. > :25:21.much longer, surely. At distribution networks, the substations within at

:25:22. > :25:27.unity is, need to be capable of dealing with this more dynamic

:25:28. > :25:29.demand. The reality of clustered and aunt, particularly overnight, when

:25:30. > :25:33.people might be taking advantage of cheap energy in order to charge

:25:34. > :25:36.cards, but the washing machine through or have a tumble dryer

:25:37. > :25:42.running, heat that immersion tanks, all of those things. None of that

:25:43. > :25:45.will happen automatically without the Government paving the way.

:25:46. > :25:49.Thereafter, however, I'm sure that these technologies will find their

:25:50. > :25:53.place in the market by themselves. They will make life better and

:25:54. > :25:58.people will buy them as a result. Government does not need to

:25:59. > :26:01.encourage people every year to change their mobile phone. People

:26:02. > :26:06.just want to have the latest technology at their disposal. I'm

:26:07. > :26:10.sure that will be the case if the framework is created by government

:26:11. > :26:15.within energy policy to make sure that that can happen. On storage,

:26:16. > :26:22.the price of storage is ready coming down from 3000 dollars per

:26:23. > :26:29.kilowatt-hours to about 200 today. It will come down quicker cell. The

:26:30. > :26:32.factory in Colorado which they are accelerating the construction of

:26:33. > :26:36.quite rapidly, given the increase in demand. These are exciting times

:26:37. > :26:41.because storage is the key to flattening the supply curve of

:26:42. > :26:45.energy. Unlocking the real potential of renewables. But the real

:26:46. > :26:49.technological wizardry is demand-side response, which to many

:26:50. > :26:55.in the chamber will be a combination of words they might not have heard

:26:56. > :27:00.before. It needs to become forefront of the way we discuss energy.

:27:01. > :27:10.Flattening the supply curve is only part of the problem. Flattening the

:27:11. > :27:16.demand curve is equally important. I've been hugely impressed as I've

:27:17. > :27:22.become very and used an DSR and gone around various companies that are

:27:23. > :27:27.delivering it. By the scale of the savings it is bringing to

:27:28. > :27:31.businesses. Marriot hotels has signed up to a DSR contract which is

:27:32. > :27:38.saving hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Aggregate industries

:27:39. > :27:43.used to just turn up in the morning and fire up the boilers to get the

:27:44. > :27:47.bitumen tanks up to heat. They would operate over the course of the day

:27:48. > :27:51.and then switch them off. They employed these technologies which

:27:52. > :27:55.said, our tolerance is we need to keep these tanks at a certain

:27:56. > :27:59.temperature and providing it is at that temperature, we will be able to

:28:00. > :28:03.release energy back to the grid, and so they do. They get money for

:28:04. > :28:08.nothing as a result because these technologies are being employed and

:28:09. > :28:12.they are able to sell back energy they don't need that they would have

:28:13. > :28:18.otherwise paid for and wasted, creating a huge saving for

:28:19. > :28:22.themselves. Sainsbury's supermarket, similarly, refrigeration is a

:28:23. > :28:29.massive cost for supermarkets and the food industry. Sainsbury's have

:28:30. > :28:33.employed DSR and from the store in my constituency in Street in

:28:34. > :28:43.Somerset they release electricity back to the grid. The other area

:28:44. > :28:47.that I wanted to touch on beyond DSR and storage is the electrification

:28:48. > :28:51.of the transport system. I've had to check carefully with the energy and

:28:52. > :28:57.climate change committee over whether I find myself in contempt of

:28:58. > :29:01.Parliament. This is a hugely exciting opportunity for us to

:29:02. > :29:08.employ electric cars and electric haulage systems in the UK. The

:29:09. > :29:12.problem is that I'm not sure we yet have the infrastructure in place to

:29:13. > :29:20.support them, nor am I sure that we have the fiscal structure right to

:29:21. > :29:23.support it either. I tried to buy an electric car over the summer and

:29:24. > :29:28.sadly the range of them was probably not quite enough to allow me to do

:29:29. > :29:33.my duties around my rear roll Somerset constituency. But they are

:29:34. > :29:38.getting there. And we just need to incentivise the acceleration of this

:29:39. > :29:44.technology so we get beyond the hundred mile range and get out to

:29:45. > :29:50.two, 300 miles. I think people will go for it quite quickly. The

:29:51. > :30:01.incentive is the government has in place is fantastic. The government's

:30:02. > :30:04.emphasis on putting out a charging infrastructure at motorway service

:30:05. > :30:07.stations is fantastic also, but we really need to grow this

:30:08. > :30:11.infrastructure much more if people are to buy these cars and make the

:30:12. > :30:20.saving they hope they will. The argument is that make a -- us more

:30:21. > :30:25.productive as well. Particularly when we go to autonomous cars and

:30:26. > :30:29.find we can move around much more freely. In the United States

:30:30. > :30:35.Coca-Cola has employed hydrogen electric hybrid vehicles for all of

:30:36. > :30:41.its fleet and it has made a 20% reduction on its fuel cost. That is

:30:42. > :30:46.a huge saving by employing those technologies, the electrification of

:30:47. > :30:50.their transport fleet. Which I think is something we should look across

:30:51. > :30:56.at to realise it's not just something you do if your green. This

:30:57. > :31:02.is something you do as an individual or a business if you want to reduce

:31:03. > :31:07.your operating costs. Technology colliding with energy generation,

:31:08. > :31:11.energy consumption to make us more efficient, more cost-effective and

:31:12. > :31:17.to make all of our operating costs that bit cheaper. Mr Speaker you

:31:18. > :31:23.encouraged us to stick within ten minutes so I will summarise without

:31:24. > :31:29.going into many more of my examples. The bottom line is that we will

:31:30. > :31:36.focus very much an hour infrastructure in terms of

:31:37. > :31:42.broadband, 5G mobile phones. We will worry about the preparedness of our

:31:43. > :31:47.airports, roads and rail. The energy infrastructure is just as important.

:31:48. > :31:52.In my view alongside the broadband and mobile phone networks it is

:31:53. > :31:58.those three sets of infrastructure, telecoms, broadband, energy, that

:31:59. > :32:01.will really drive the fourth, or third, Industrial Revolution

:32:02. > :32:04.forwards and allow us to harness these fantastic technologies. We

:32:05. > :32:08.should be seeking to do so not just because we are seeking to arrest

:32:09. > :32:12.climate change but because it is cost-effective and it makes business

:32:13. > :32:18.sense, will increase productivity and ultimately will be great for our

:32:19. > :32:24.economy. Can I first congratulate the honourable members for securing

:32:25. > :32:29.this crucially important debate. I am proud to represent the greatest

:32:30. > :32:35.city of the first Industrial Revolution. In Stoke-on-Trent we

:32:36. > :32:40.pioneered the modern ceramics industry. As visionaries like Josiah

:32:41. > :32:44.Wedgwood and Thomas Minton transformed the landscape with the

:32:45. > :32:49.pot banks and factories of a world conquering industry. The clay and

:32:50. > :32:52.coal beneath our feet fuelled a vast, dynamic economy and funded the

:32:53. > :32:57.great civic buildings and canal networks that still tanned Reed

:32:58. > :33:00.Kristan Testament. With last week 's news that Churchill China is

:33:01. > :33:09.planning to invest in new jobs in the city is a legacy that is very

:33:10. > :33:14.much alive this day. For my city and my constituents who have worked the

:33:15. > :33:17.clay for generations, the path to prosperity lies in the renewal of

:33:18. > :33:25.British industry and in the creation of a prosperous, balanced economy

:33:26. > :33:28.which utilises our country strengths, our creativity, technical

:33:29. > :33:33.acumen and knowledge gained from hundreds of years of craftsmanship.

:33:34. > :33:36.Advances in modern technology and material engineering present an

:33:37. > :33:41.opportunity to rebuild the local economy and celebrate a city far too

:33:42. > :33:47.often overlooked. As mentioned by my honourable friend the member for

:33:48. > :33:51.Hove, these new horizons are already visible in the ceramics industry.

:33:52. > :33:54.Where advances in material transformation mean ceramic

:33:55. > :34:01.technology could and should be utilised in new and extraordinary

:34:02. > :34:04.ways, from bone transplants, hip replacements to mobile transmitters

:34:05. > :34:10.and energy conductors. Trials have been done on lightweight ceramic

:34:11. > :34:15.body armour to protect the next generation of British Armed Forces.

:34:16. > :34:19.We now need to make these ambitions to reality for my constituents and

:34:20. > :34:25.laid the groundwork for a truly 21st-century ceramics industry.

:34:26. > :34:31.Plans for a new hub for Materials research in the city, the applied

:34:32. > :34:37.Materials research and innovation Centre are already underway,

:34:38. > :34:40.supported by MIT, Imperial College London and Cambridge University.

:34:41. > :34:46.Demonstrating Stoke-on-Trent and the UK are leading the way. This

:34:47. > :34:49.revolution has the potential to unleash extraordinary economic

:34:50. > :34:53.growth and to greatly improve our quality of life, and we must seize

:34:54. > :34:57.this opportunity to create an economy that works for everyone. We

:34:58. > :35:02.must harness these new technologies to bring new life into traditional

:35:03. > :35:07.industries, and need a renaissance in British manufacturing, and let us

:35:08. > :35:10.be clear. It is this and no less than this that is required. The

:35:11. > :35:15.Fourth Industrial Revolution holds the power to drive our country and

:35:16. > :35:19.our communities forward, to a Brave new world of scientific discovery,

:35:20. > :35:25.material comfort and sustained economic growth. I wish to sound a

:35:26. > :35:27.note of caution to those who assume that greater prosperity and

:35:28. > :35:31.opportunity are a foregone conclusion. We should not fear

:35:32. > :35:35.change but we must support our communities to adapt to new

:35:36. > :35:40.industries and new opportunities. Because with great change can come

:35:41. > :35:44.great people and economies can develop and adapt in ways we cannot

:35:45. > :35:48.always predict. There can be unforeseen consequences to an

:35:49. > :35:53.economic boom pursued without care. The true mark of a strong economy is

:35:54. > :35:59.that it allows each of us to live comfortably and well without hunger

:36:00. > :36:03.or want. When we lose the sight of that aim the result is even greater

:36:04. > :36:08.disparities in wealth and opportunity. Progress may be

:36:09. > :36:13.inevitable, but prosperity is not. It is our own actions that will

:36:14. > :36:16.determine whether the promise of this Fourth Industrial Revolution is

:36:17. > :36:21.realised, and whether its opportunities will be accessible to

:36:22. > :36:26.the many or to the few. The Fourth Industrial Revolution needs to be

:36:27. > :36:28.guided in such a way as to provide equality of opportunity and balanced

:36:29. > :36:33.regional investment. And its communities like mine in the

:36:34. > :36:37.post-industrial regions, long neglected by successive governments

:36:38. > :36:41.and lacking the resources to retrain and up skill our workforce, which

:36:42. > :36:46.could be hit hardest if we get this wrong. The challenges that we face

:36:47. > :36:50.is not only to capitalise on these new technologies but to ensure the

:36:51. > :36:56.rewards are distributed equitably, and that everyone has the chance to

:36:57. > :36:59.get ahead. That's why we need a government that provides businesses,

:37:00. > :37:03.workers and entrepreneurs with the support they need. For

:37:04. > :37:07.Stoke-on-Trent that means I'd coherent industrial strategy that

:37:08. > :37:10.plays to our strengths in ceramic manufacturing and engineering and

:37:11. > :37:14.supports us to develop the associated industries. Over the

:37:15. > :37:18.course of my first year in Parliament had been working with

:37:19. > :37:22.local employers, businesses and universities to do just that.

:37:23. > :37:26.Supported by the Staffordshire chamber of commerce we are working

:37:27. > :37:31.to develop a clear industrial strategy with a set of achievable

:37:32. > :37:35.goals to improve our infrastructure, tackle our skill shortages and

:37:36. > :37:38.secure the inward investment we desperately need. There is

:37:39. > :37:42.recognition throughout a city that a piecemeal approach to economic

:37:43. > :37:46.renewal is simply not enough. We need a long-term plan that sets out

:37:47. > :37:51.to tackle the particular obstacles we face. That means overcoming the

:37:52. > :37:55.challenges in skills and education and offering greater opportunities

:37:56. > :37:59.for our young people, not just in traditional trades but in digital

:38:00. > :38:04.technology, coding and advanced materials. I welcome the government

:38:05. > :38:06.'s decision to lift the age cap on apprenticeships, to allow more

:38:07. > :38:10.people to learn new skills and traits. We must also work to open

:38:11. > :38:15.people's eyes to the many new industries being thrown open by the

:38:16. > :38:18.digital revolution. We also need a fresh commitment to lifelong

:38:19. > :38:23.learning so that people can learn new skills throughout their lives,

:38:24. > :38:29.and adapt to an ever more fluid labour market. So much potential is

:38:30. > :38:31.wasted because people are not being granted the opportunity to develop

:38:32. > :38:37.themselves through their working lives. Cities like Stoke-on-Trent

:38:38. > :38:42.also need investment in the critical infrastructure needed to grow our

:38:43. > :38:46.local economy, whether it be transport links or superfast

:38:47. > :38:50.broadband. Projects such as the ceramic valley enterprise zone are a

:38:51. > :38:56.welcome boost but I fear they are not sufficient to deliver a strong

:38:57. > :38:59.local economy in isolation. A full infrastructure evaluation in our

:39:00. > :39:02.northern and Midlands cities which show the government is committed to

:39:03. > :39:06.building an economy that works for every region and help to put flesh

:39:07. > :39:14.on the bones of the so-called Northern powerhouse. We need an

:39:15. > :39:16.industrial strategy that supports businesses, which want to expand to

:39:17. > :39:20.invest in new technology especially new ceramic technology, and support

:39:21. > :39:24.RND into new technologies as we saw with the breakthrough in graphene

:39:25. > :39:31.technology at Manchester University. Britain can and must lead the way in

:39:32. > :39:37.this new revolution. We must also in showed that it is spread evenly. The

:39:38. > :39:43.more as society changes the more people are at risk of being left

:39:44. > :39:46.behind. By investing in the skill and infrastructure we can overcome

:39:47. > :39:50.these challenges. That is why I would urge the government today not

:39:51. > :39:54.to sit back and let events take their course, invest in the skills,

:39:55. > :39:58.training and infrastructure we need right now, right across the country,

:39:59. > :40:03.to ensure everyone has the chance to fulfil their potential. We need to

:40:04. > :40:07.ensure the opportunities presented by the Fourth Industrial Revolution

:40:08. > :40:11.are open to all. We need a commitment from the government to

:40:12. > :40:18.invest in skills and education and particularly in adult education so

:40:19. > :40:20.that those whose jobs are at risk and by new employment, better paid

:40:21. > :40:25.employment in new industries. And we need a genuine industrial strategy

:40:26. > :40:35.that supports industry is the length and breadth of our country. Thank

:40:36. > :40:41.you very much indeed Mr Deputy Speaker. It's a pleasure to speak

:40:42. > :40:44.with you in the chair. Let me start by congratulating my honourable

:40:45. > :40:52.friend the member for haven't and the honourable member for Hove and

:40:53. > :40:57.Portslade for securing a debate on this important topic. According to

:40:58. > :41:00.the World Economic Forum, the Fourth Industrial Revolution is

:41:01. > :41:03.characterised by a range of new technologies that are fusing the

:41:04. > :41:11.physical, digital and biological worlds. It has, they say, the

:41:12. > :41:14.potential to transform and integrate products and services, to reshape

:41:15. > :41:19.radically the way in which things are made, the factories through

:41:20. > :41:24.which we make them and the ever more personal and customised uses to

:41:25. > :41:29.which they operate. This can many forms, be they new web applications,

:41:30. > :41:34.micro-robots, peer-to-peer services, advanced manufacturing or

:41:35. > :41:39.personalised medicines and cyber medical technologies. They can be

:41:40. > :41:42.leveraged by big data and better and more widespread digital activity.

:41:43. > :41:52.I want to speak today briefly about what I think this is about regarding

:41:53. > :41:58.these developments. Let me start by saying I'm quite sceptical about the

:41:59. > :42:03.language regarding the Fort industrial revolution. I share some

:42:04. > :42:10.of the scepticism of the members for Wales. Voltaire once sardonically

:42:11. > :42:16.remark that the Roman Empire was neither Roman nor an empire. I find

:42:17. > :42:22.this neither industrial nor a revolution. The original causes of

:42:23. > :42:30.the Industrial Revolution still rather contested. Was it the result

:42:31. > :42:37.of access to coal and high thermic value coal in particular? What it

:42:38. > :42:42.the result of spreading tray, the bourgeois virtues of thrift, hard

:42:43. > :42:45.work, tolerance and openness to other countries, all science and

:42:46. > :42:52.technology? These are still contested matters with historians.

:42:53. > :42:59.Some people say it's based on steam and then 150 years later,

:43:00. > :43:07.electricity. Where does it leave us now? We need to go to Adam Smith,

:43:08. > :43:11.and I was particularly glad that the member for Inverclyde highlighted

:43:12. > :43:18.the importance of Glasgow, since Adam Smith was Glasgow University's

:43:19. > :43:22.greatest professor, at a time when Glasgow University was one of the

:43:23. > :43:28.greatest in the world. Smith was wise on many fronts. He was a

:43:29. > :43:35.unionist. Above all, alongside human, he said union was a measure

:43:36. > :43:38.from which infant good has arrived to Scotland. He pointed to the

:43:39. > :43:44.importance of the division of labour. I want to point out in

:43:45. > :43:48.particular that there was a limit by the size of the market. You don't

:43:49. > :43:55.get porters in villages, and you wouldn't today get Uber in towns.

:43:56. > :44:01.The market isn't it enough. Change, I would suggest of the House, is by

:44:02. > :44:07.the same things that have always powered it. Bigger markets, net

:44:08. > :44:11.access to materials, better materials and the human appetite for

:44:12. > :44:20.risk and are requesting nature human imagination. It was one of my

:44:21. > :44:27.predecessors who pointed out the eight technologies on which the last

:44:28. > :44:32.Government founded its strategy on, from agriculture to satellites. I

:44:33. > :44:38.think we should talk about these rather than airily about

:44:39. > :44:44.revolutions. The point of view has been articulated very well by Robert

:44:45. > :44:52.Gordon who argued that there was a golden age, golden century of

:44:53. > :45:00.innovation between 1870-1970, time and transformation through

:45:01. > :45:06.innovative technologies, and as John Okada said, for someone born when

:45:07. > :45:10.engine in Disraeli was Prime Minister, Benjamin Heath would have

:45:11. > :45:17.seen horse-drawn give way to cars and aircraft. Medical devices,

:45:18. > :45:22.services that were nonexistent, replaced in the queues for

:45:23. > :45:29.infectious diseases, as well as colour television, indoor plumbing

:45:30. > :45:37.and electricity. Paul Voelker has pointed out that the greatest

:45:38. > :45:41.technology has been ATM. If anyone knows anything about finance, they

:45:42. > :45:46.will have a great sympathy with that technology. These technologies have

:45:47. > :45:53.shaped us, and Gordon says that capacity for transformative

:45:54. > :45:55.innovation has slowed. We have upgrades but not life transforming

:45:56. > :46:03.breakthroughs, like the washing machine. Things that are shaped

:46:04. > :46:09.peoples lives. Low growth, low productivity. However I do not share

:46:10. > :46:19.this pessimism. What matters to me is capacity to risk, the ability to

:46:20. > :46:24.work. Imagination. I would like to mention two projects I have been

:46:25. > :46:33.associated with. The new modelling technology and engineering. The

:46:34. > :46:39.first completely new university for decades. In Hereford, with a

:46:40. > :46:42.curriculum along the lines of liberal engineering, tying the

:46:43. > :46:51.liberal engineering to the arts and sciences required to create

:46:52. > :47:01.innovation. Problem -based, not all based on curricula. 46 week

:47:02. > :47:06.curriculum linking to colleges in America and Warwick and Bristol

:47:07. > :47:12.here. It's not just an important local institution, its potentially a

:47:13. > :47:21.disruptively national institution and could do enormous amount to

:47:22. > :47:26.assist the technologies today. It's a not for profit car my father has

:47:27. > :47:32.designed. A flat pack vehicle. Let me tell you, you may be surprised.

:47:33. > :47:38.Even you with your astonishing breadth of understanding and

:47:39. > :47:43.knowledge, this is a vehicle that can be assembled by three people in

:47:44. > :47:55.a day from a flat pack. It weighs... It costs a third of the price of a

:47:56. > :48:02.luxury 4x4 and carries three times the weight. Under ?20,000. To get

:48:03. > :48:06.that simplicity, you had to refit design and engineering. What I think

:48:07. > :48:13.that brings out is that it doesn't require... Great innovation does not

:48:14. > :48:24.require the highest form of technology. Simpler --

:48:25. > :48:33.simplification can change things. Let's turn now to our own situation.

:48:34. > :48:41.Policies that support enterprises have been rightly highlighted.

:48:42. > :48:47.Manufacturing companies in this country are overwhelmingly employers

:48:48. > :48:51.are 50 people or over and these firms count for half of

:48:52. > :48:55.manufacturing employment. Small and medium sized enterprises will be the

:48:56. > :49:03.blood of change as they are today. blood of change as they are today.

:49:04. > :49:08.Very versatile in their manufacturing -- Manufacturing, able

:49:09. > :49:15.to move on their feet, produce despite products using new materials

:49:16. > :49:23.and revolutionary techniques of 3-D printing, assisted computer design.

:49:24. > :49:32.I hope members are already aware of Innovate Uk. They run competitions,

:49:33. > :49:38.funding competitions to find the best technology. They are the best

:49:39. > :49:45.for getting this market ready. There is also the Heinemann -- high-value

:49:46. > :49:50.manufacturing catapulted for which supports manufacturers, small

:49:51. > :49:54.manufacturers to adopt new technologies. 300 million has been

:49:55. > :50:02.invested in a factory through that means. Over the last years, the high

:50:03. > :50:11.value manufacturing catapulted has worked for 160 private sector

:50:12. > :50:14.clients on 1300 projects and 18 small and medium enterprise

:50:15. > :50:19.engagements. This in particular has the equipment to support the

:50:20. > :50:23.adoption of advanced technologies, using virtual modelling. It can help

:50:24. > :50:27.businesses understand what tech can do for them without having to go

:50:28. > :50:45.down that path to plan and eliminate risks. There are several projects,

:50:46. > :50:50.Smart City Developer, Manchester. There are some very interesting

:50:51. > :50:55.collaborations for this model support between the public and

:50:56. > :51:00.private sectors, and what it is offering. It is a virtuous circle

:51:01. > :51:04.and one that the Government wants to see greatly repeated and replicated.

:51:05. > :51:11.We want to increase access and awareness to these catapulted to

:51:12. > :51:18.that more small businesses can get new market opportunities. I'm

:51:19. > :51:24.grateful for the Minister to giving way. I find it incredible that

:51:25. > :51:29.someone who's never shopped at IKEA could know anything about a flat

:51:30. > :51:38.pack car that you could put together in a day. Does he think there is

:51:39. > :51:41.merit in these catapulted, linking them to industrial materials for

:51:42. > :51:46.products and services that are being developed in the parts of the

:51:47. > :51:51.heartlands talked about by my right honourable friend. I take the point

:51:52. > :51:58.very much. The only way I think we can think about this flat pack car

:51:59. > :52:05.is that it is the product of three years of development from the senior

:52:06. > :52:10.executives at McLaren. On the issue of linking to industry, I think it's

:52:11. > :52:13.absolutely right. One of the things about the catapulted is that they

:52:14. > :52:20.have proved to be a flexible form, and there's no reason why that

:52:21. > :52:31.flexibility can't be used to create even closer linkages. As he knows,

:52:32. > :52:38.there was a value debt between businesses, development, and

:52:39. > :52:41.academia. Let me round up by thanking colleagues and

:52:42. > :52:45.congratulating them for this debate which I think has been extremely

:52:46. > :52:49.wise and intelligent. As a Government, we want to be at the

:52:50. > :52:56.forefront of the changes that are being discussed here, the landscape

:52:57. > :53:03.of our industry and our commerce, the way it is continuing. We want to

:53:04. > :53:09.lead the fourth as we lead the first. Through this new department

:53:10. > :53:15.for business, strategy and energy, with a criteria that will be laid

:53:16. > :53:23.out over the next few months. I'd like to join with colleagues and

:53:24. > :53:32.bank the honourable member and for those who have worked to make this

:53:33. > :53:42.debate today. I worked at the World Economic Forum from 2009 to 2012.

:53:43. > :53:47.One of the things on the agenda was the Davos meeting. This wants to be

:53:48. > :53:54.characterised by new forms of renewable energy, outward expansion

:53:55. > :54:01.of technology gym by the Internet. It's a revolution that will take

:54:02. > :54:08.place as we face severe challenges to our economic future. Trade

:54:09. > :54:11.deficit in our country is difficult, there is greatly reduced job

:54:12. > :54:16.security, overconcentration on London as a source of wealth and

:54:17. > :54:21.growth in the country at the Spencer for the regions. Overreliance on the

:54:22. > :54:25.service industries with a low share of manufacturing in terms of share

:54:26. > :54:33.of GDP. Manufacturing been soaked Croatia YouTube broadly shared

:54:34. > :54:39.wealth -- manufacturing been so important in terms of broadly shared

:54:40. > :54:42.wealth. That lies at the heart of many of the difficulties in terms of

:54:43. > :54:48.the unbalanced nature of the British economy. In the aftermath of the EU

:54:49. > :54:53.referendum, each of these challenges is exacerbate it by the uncertainty

:54:54. > :54:59.that our economy faces regarding Brexit. With -- we don't know what

:55:00. > :55:03.our trading relationship will be with our largest market and we may

:55:04. > :55:10.not know for some time. The fourth Industrial Revolution which could

:55:11. > :55:11.transform the way we live could be dependent on our economically --

:55:12. > :55:33.economy. As the economy is further limited to

:55:34. > :55:37.services... Will we use this for Industrial Revolution to transform,

:55:38. > :55:43.brighten our economic future for all our people. Can its fusion of

:55:44. > :55:47.digital technology, intelligence and activity shape a new economy with

:55:48. > :55:54.new models of manufacturing, labour relations and skills' development to

:55:55. > :56:00.create jobs that raise living standards and allow us to trade with

:56:01. > :56:04.the new ways. Can it help us to realise our values in society and in

:56:05. > :56:12.our everyday lives? The answers to those questions is what we make it.

:56:13. > :56:16.We must shape and lead the fourth Industrial Revolution so that it

:56:17. > :56:20.delivers the society and the economy that we want for people all across

:56:21. > :56:25.our country. It requires a Government with a vision of what a

:56:26. > :56:30.fourth Industrial Revolution should look like in order to allow us to

:56:31. > :56:34.deliver the outcomes that we need. The Government that has an

:56:35. > :56:38.industrial strategy that helps us to get there, a Government that takes

:56:39. > :56:45.action, control of our future. This will mean a strategy and plan to

:56:46. > :56:47.build a new manufacturing sector that creates world leading products

:56:48. > :57:02.but also delivers a It will require matching or

:57:03. > :57:06.exceeding oh ECD levels of investment in research and

:57:07. > :57:11.development, which is the source of future sustainable growth and