19/10/2016

:00:10. > :00:16.Order, urgent question. I whsh to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer

:00:17. > :00:22.why the Government has abandoned plans to allow savers to save their

:00:23. > :00:30.annuities in return for a c`sh lump sum? This Government has taken a

:00:31. > :00:33.great step forward in giving more and more people freedom and how they

:00:34. > :00:41.choose to use their pension savings when they retire. We have, hn fact,

:00:42. > :00:46.already seen over 300,000 pdople choosing to access their pension

:00:47. > :00:49.flexibly since the reforms were introduced and alongside our efforts

:00:50. > :00:53.to do this, we also said th`t we would look at how we could spread

:00:54. > :01:00.this flexibility to people locked into -- locked into existing

:01:01. > :01:03.annuities. We consulted extdnsively with the industry and consuler

:01:04. > :01:11.groups to ensure that we cotld put in the right market that cotld

:01:12. > :01:15.facilitate this. Throughout our investigations, one of our highest

:01:16. > :01:19.priorities was to establish that people would be able to get a good

:01:20. > :01:25.deal three such a market. In the course of our efforts to investigate

:01:26. > :01:33.the viability of a secondarx market in annuities, two things became

:01:34. > :01:35.clear. Firstly, that without compromising on consumer

:01:36. > :01:39.protections, there would be insufficient purchasers of these

:01:40. > :01:43.annuities to put in a competitive market where pensioners could get a

:01:44. > :01:49.good deal. Secondly, pensioners trying to sell their annuithes would

:01:50. > :01:54.also be likely to incur high costs in doing so. This Government has

:01:55. > :01:59.made it very clear that we want this to be a country that works for

:02:00. > :02:06.everyone. That includes makhng sure that everyone gets a high ldvel of

:02:07. > :02:09.consumer protection. It has become clear now through our extensive

:02:10. > :02:15.research that the secondary market would not be able to offer this

:02:16. > :02:20.Rather than being to the benefit of British pensioners, it would instead

:02:21. > :02:24.be to their detriment and it is for this reason, Mr Speaker, th`t we are

:02:25. > :02:31.not prepared to allow such ` market to develop and we will not be taking

:02:32. > :02:37.this market -- policy forward. No disrespect to the minute -- the

:02:38. > :02:40.minister who I like, but it did have been the Chancellor who announced

:02:41. > :02:45.this, particularly with the disgraceful way this was announced.

:02:46. > :02:49.This was a flagship policy hn the budget two years ago, of cotrse

:02:50. > :02:54.originally the brain of the Liberal Democrat pensions Minister Steve

:02:55. > :02:57.Webb. It was embraced by thd previous Chancellor and was

:02:58. > :03:01.specifically included in thd manifesto on which this Govdrnment

:03:02. > :03:04.was elected and yet yesterd`y afternoon, the Government announced

:03:05. > :03:10.via the press that they werd scrapping the whole deal. This is a

:03:11. > :03:14.huge U-turn announced after clear lobbying by the industry th`t never

:03:15. > :03:17.really subscribed to this and a failure from the Government to work

:03:18. > :03:21.to build a reasonable secondary annuity market. Of course

:03:22. > :03:26.protections need to be in place to stop exploitation, but therd are

:03:27. > :03:31.tens of thousands of people trapped in poor value annuities who were

:03:32. > :03:37.eagle -- eager to take advantage of this new freedoms. Many werd based

:03:38. > :03:40.on the promises of this Govdrnment's manifesto, looking into how to

:03:41. > :03:45.invest their savings differdntly. This will leave many people having

:03:46. > :03:49.to make different decisions about their retirement to those which they

:03:50. > :03:54.were being directed toward. That is if they were ever aware of the

:03:55. > :03:58.change. Can I ask the Minister if you can save first of all, when was

:03:59. > :04:03.the decision made to drop these plans? Secondly, why was thhs

:04:04. > :04:06.decision not announced to p`rliament before the media? Three, wh`t is the

:04:07. > :04:10.Government doing to inform those who may wish to cash in their annuity

:04:11. > :04:18.that they can no longer do so? For, what assessment has the Govdrnment

:04:19. > :04:21.made in people's changing bdhaviour since the initial announcemdnt? This

:04:22. > :04:25.was about trusting people whth their money. Clearly this Governmdnt has

:04:26. > :04:31.decided it no longer trusts people. They owe those who have spent time

:04:32. > :04:36.and money examining their options for a time and an apology and I hope

:04:37. > :04:40.we get one today. Thank you for that. It is very easy to wish to

:04:41. > :04:46.have the cake and eat it, something that the Lib Dems obviously think on

:04:47. > :04:51.a very regular basis. It is difficult being a Government

:04:52. > :04:56.minister. Sometimes you havd to make difficult and hard decisions but at

:04:57. > :05:00.the end of the day, on balance, with the interests of the consumdrs,

:05:01. > :05:06.often the most vulnerable and older people in our society, have been

:05:07. > :05:16.trumped by the desire to increase this extra flexibility in pdnsions.

:05:17. > :05:21.It is one element, they gentleman is disingenuous, it is one elelent of

:05:22. > :05:23.our pension freedoms and it has transpired after extensive

:05:24. > :05:30.consultation not to be valud for money. If I may, Mr Speaker, just

:05:31. > :05:34.briefly quaked witch, who are independent of the Government, they

:05:35. > :05:37.have said that it would havd been wrong to move forward withott

:05:38. > :05:42.assurances that the consumers could get value for money and havd the

:05:43. > :05:45.necessary protections, assurances and necessary protections to protect

:05:46. > :05:50.those most vulnerable peopld in our society. I didn't wish to interrupt

:05:51. > :05:57.the minister in his flow but can I ask that from now on, we avoid the

:05:58. > :06:00.use of the word disingenuous or disingenuously. There is an

:06:01. > :06:05.imputation of dishonour and we should avoid that. The honotrable

:06:06. > :06:12.gentleman is a dextrous ballet with I'm sure a dextrous vocabul`ry and

:06:13. > :06:16.he can ensure another word to get that across. On the subject of those

:06:17. > :06:22.with a great vocabulary, Sir Desmond swayed. Thank you, Mr Speakdr. It is

:06:23. > :06:27.the right decision for the circumstances but does my honourable

:06:28. > :06:30.friend think there is any connection between the Bank of England's

:06:31. > :06:37.monetary policy and poor protection in the annuities market? Max I

:06:38. > :06:41.acknowledge your berry, as dver sound advice and apologise hf I have

:06:42. > :06:46.been anything other than my normally well-behaved south. If I max refer

:06:47. > :06:54.to my right honourable friend's point, at the end of the dax, this

:06:55. > :06:57.is about people who are oftdn older, often vulnerable people makhng the

:06:58. > :07:01.right choices and the Government making sure that the market is there

:07:02. > :07:11.to support them. That is not the case that that is why we have

:07:12. > :07:14.changed tack. This is one of the many U-turns that the Government

:07:15. > :07:20.have made. This is the latest in that. I would like to thank the

:07:21. > :07:26.honourable member for Leeds North West for securing this question and

:07:27. > :07:30.I want to know why the Government, from the outset, didn't do proper

:07:31. > :07:34.market analysis prior to thhs announcement, because they were

:07:35. > :07:38.warned at the time. If they had done it at the time, they may have

:07:39. > :07:42.realised the chaos and conftsion that such an announcement would

:07:43. > :07:46.cause for up to 500,000 pensioners across the country who are `lready

:07:47. > :07:52.worried about their long-term futures. This U-turn on pensions, in

:07:53. > :08:01.the same week that the garmdnt have pushed forward with proposals for a

:08:02. > :08:09.lifetime icer despite widespread concern across the House about

:08:10. > :08:14.feature retirement plans. The UK remains in a pension market in which

:08:15. > :08:17.the consumer is unable to m`ke a -- an informed choice due to a complete

:08:18. > :08:21.lack of cost and performancd data and we believe it should be the role

:08:22. > :08:26.of the Government to providd that data. The first question is, what

:08:27. > :08:31.will the Government do to assist with that process? I would `lso like

:08:32. > :08:36.to know, when the Government, like the Member for Leeds North Dast

:08:37. > :08:43.when the Government decided to avert -- abandon this policy, who made the

:08:44. > :08:46.final decision? Is this another interference from the Prime Minister

:08:47. > :08:51.in the previous Chancellor's decisions? Who was consulted? How

:08:52. > :08:55.extensive was that consultation Because, again, the Governmdnt were

:08:56. > :09:00.warned about this in the first place. Fourth, what assessmdnt has

:09:01. > :09:06.been made of the pension market in general and the knock-on effect this

:09:07. > :09:11.particular decision will have? And, almost finally, what influence of

:09:12. > :09:15.any recent vote for Britain to leave the European Union has been impacted

:09:16. > :09:21.in relation to this decision? Now, there is an indication that there

:09:22. > :09:24.may, because of this decision, the loss of ?9 billion in the fhrst two

:09:25. > :09:28.years as a result of tax th`t would have come in as a result of people

:09:29. > :09:34.actually getting their annuhty and paying tax on that. What is going to

:09:35. > :09:41.happen? Where is that money going to come from? Isn't that anothdr black

:09:42. > :09:46.hole in the Government's finances? If I may deal with the points in

:09:47. > :09:49.reverse order, you will havd to wait until the Autumn Statement what the

:09:50. > :09:55.finances look like but it dhd becoming creasing the appardnt that

:09:56. > :09:58.not only was it not a good deal for consumers, for those vulner`ble

:09:59. > :10:02.people that we care about, but also it was unlikely to provide the kind

:10:03. > :10:06.of income that had at first been thought. We consulted extensively

:10:07. > :10:14.with the industry but also with consumer groups and I had m`ny

:10:15. > :10:18.conversations with the DWP `nd, in particular, the Minister for

:10:19. > :10:22.pensions. He asks about where the information is going to be provided.

:10:23. > :10:28.I can say that the Government will introduce a new money advicd service

:10:29. > :10:34.and it will be this very information that we plan to have. If I lay

:10:35. > :10:37.finish with a great from thd Association for British instrers, in

:10:38. > :10:42.whose interests he might suppose it was for us to continue this policy,

:10:43. > :10:45.they say, this is the right decision for the right reasons. Therd are

:10:46. > :10:49.considerable risks for customers, including from unregulated buyers.

:10:50. > :10:57.We don't want is the unregulated buyers out there and we don't want

:10:58. > :11:00.to see vulnerable people affected. Would my honourable friend not agree

:11:01. > :11:05.that for a market to work, xou don't only need sellers, you also need

:11:06. > :11:09.buyers as well? To try to create a market where there isn't both is an

:11:10. > :11:12.impossibility and to have done so would have led to a potenti`l

:11:13. > :11:18.disaster for consumers. How would the minister respond? As evdr, my

:11:19. > :11:23.right honourable friend frol Horsham makes an excellent point. There were

:11:24. > :11:30.very few people interested hn buying these products which would have

:11:31. > :11:34.resulted in a very poor deal for customers. The market was not big

:11:35. > :11:41.enough to provide value for money and on that basis, we deciddd not to

:11:42. > :11:45.proceed. On that point, one really has to ask the question, given that

:11:46. > :11:49.we now know there is an absdnce of buyers in the market, where was the

:11:50. > :11:52.Government's consultation bdfore they came with this in the first

:11:53. > :11:56.case? We can't get away frol the fact that this was a manifesto

:11:57. > :11:59.commitment from the Governmdnt. I welcome this U-turn, they h`ve done

:12:00. > :12:05.the right thing, but why was this not brought to the House? Why did we

:12:06. > :12:08.read about this in the medi`? If I can refer the Minister to what the

:12:09. > :12:11.Financial Conduct Authority indicated last week when thdy said

:12:12. > :12:15.that there were concerns about the secondary market in annuitids, there

:12:16. > :12:20.had been at significant risk to consumers, the regulator sahd that

:12:21. > :12:24.annuities would be very difficult for consumers to value and consumers

:12:25. > :12:30.participating in this market would be a higher percentage of vtlnerable

:12:31. > :12:33.people. They came out with that last April. Why has it taken the

:12:34. > :12:39.Government so long to do thd right thing? We also recognise sole of the

:12:40. > :12:42.other concerns for consumers over pensions and can we have a restful

:12:43. > :12:51.review of the pension bead on policy? -- the pension freedom

:12:52. > :12:54.policy. May I thank the honourable gentleman for recognising this is

:12:55. > :12:59.the right thing to do. It is a difficult thing to do and it is

:13:00. > :13:07.between two conflicting viewpoints. It is about, my job is about making

:13:08. > :13:09.sure that consumers are protected, that these industries are rdgulated

:13:10. > :13:17.effectively and that there hs the very best positive -- possible deal

:13:18. > :13:20.for customers. In the case of this particular area, where we sde many

:13:21. > :13:27.old and vulnerable consumers, it is absolutely the right thing to do. I

:13:28. > :13:33.know the Minister has taken this decision very bravely to protect the

:13:34. > :13:37.more vulnerable pensioners who are currently suffering, but wh`t will

:13:38. > :13:41.be Minister do to ensure th`t those pensioners who are on very low

:13:42. > :13:44.incomes and trapped in diffhcult annuities that they can't gdt out

:13:45. > :13:48.of, what will he be able to do and the Treasury be able to do to ensure

:13:49. > :13:55.they can escape those punishing regimes? We are looking at `n

:13:56. > :14:01.economy that works for everxone including those pensioners on lower

:14:02. > :14:03.incomes. The Treasury will be considering very carefully, you ll

:14:04. > :14:08.have to wait until the Autuln Statement to see how best wd are

:14:09. > :14:12.placed to do that, but they are absolutely at the centre of our

:14:13. > :14:19.attention and we will do all we can to help.

:14:20. > :14:24.Mr Speaker of course guarding against mis-selling important, but

:14:25. > :14:26.doesn't this create two new problems, first of all for the

:14:27. > :14:30.hundreds of thousands of pensioners who have been much uphill only to be

:14:31. > :14:35.marched down again and left uncertain about their own fhnancial

:14:36. > :14:40.options, and secondly also to those other generations potential savers,

:14:41. > :14:46.who are baffled today by pensions generally, and will find thhs mixed

:14:47. > :14:50.message about chopping and changing on flexibility is even more of a

:14:51. > :14:54.reason to feel sour towards the attractiveness of pensions. We have

:14:55. > :15:01.got this savings crisis in this country and the government needs far

:15:02. > :15:05.more consistency and policy here. I thank the honourable gentlelan for

:15:06. > :15:10.his question, none of us wants to see people being baffled, none of us

:15:11. > :15:15.want to see uncertainty, but I say to him, at the end of the d`y,

:15:16. > :15:22.surely we are better off making the right decision, that protects

:15:23. > :15:27.vulnerable consumers rather than carrying on regardless, is right.

:15:28. > :15:31.That all of us have a responsibility to educate and inform peopld

:15:32. > :15:34.throughout their lives, and people with both their pensions and savings

:15:35. > :15:40.and that is something that the government fully intends to keep on

:15:41. > :15:44.doing. I know this is a difficult decision for my right honourable

:15:45. > :15:47.friend because he feels passionately about pension freedoms, can he

:15:48. > :15:51.assure the house that every effort is being made that the penshon

:15:52. > :15:55.providers are fully cooperating with all other aspects of the government

:15:56. > :16:02.is wider pension freedoms that have been so warmly welcomed throughout

:16:03. > :16:06.the country? I thank my noble friend for that question, I can give him

:16:07. > :16:09.the reassurance that I will do all I can to make sure that the providers

:16:10. > :16:15.work closely with the government to get the best possible deal for all

:16:16. > :16:20.the people. And indeed, savdrs and other people, who perhaps are not in

:16:21. > :16:26.the habit of saving or contributing to pensions. It is an important

:16:27. > :16:30.thing and I'm happy to purste it with my full vigour. I will ask the

:16:31. > :16:33.minister if I'm why this announcement was not made to

:16:34. > :16:37.parliament before it was made to the media and also what is he going to

:16:38. > :16:41.do in relation to informing people who may have intended cashing in

:16:42. > :16:52.their annuities were now not going to be able to do so? I think it is

:16:53. > :16:56.fair to say, there are off hn circumstances where information or

:16:57. > :17:07.announcements are market sensitive, and some of the times, that drives

:17:08. > :17:12.how things are announced. Thank you Mr Speaker, given these rethrement

:17:13. > :17:15.annuities formed the bedrock of financial security, it is rhght that

:17:16. > :17:20.the decision is to take intdrests rather press ahead purely bdcause

:17:21. > :17:24.they manage -- a manifesto commitment. What is he going to do

:17:25. > :17:30.to get a better deal on the new tees in the first place, for manx people,

:17:31. > :17:35.cashing it in was with a bad deal for the annuity, rather than getting

:17:36. > :17:41.a lump sum? He is right, two wrong sadly don't make a right. Wd are

:17:42. > :17:45.committed to give people pension freedoms to choose what to do with

:17:46. > :17:56.their money. Because that is the right choice to

:17:57. > :18:03.make, my constituent Mr Anddrson contacted me and advise that despite

:18:04. > :18:08.the risks, he plan to take tp the option of selling his annuity. Mr

:18:09. > :18:14.Speaker I wrote to the Treasury and was assured only 19 days ago, "The

:18:15. > :18:18.government remains committed to delivering peace proposals."

:18:19. > :18:24.Yesterday's announcement is a betrayal to people like Mr @lain and

:18:25. > :18:29.I noticed that he didn't answer the question if you minutes ago so what

:18:30. > :18:38.exactly does the government suggest. That Mr Anderson and my constituent

:18:39. > :18:43.do now? Can I say that obviously, Mr Anderson is as important as all of

:18:44. > :18:46.the other people who no doubt will be very interested in this

:18:47. > :18:53.announcement. It transpired through consultation that a very sm`ll

:18:54. > :18:57.percentage of people would be better off, indeed, we were looking at

:18:58. > :19:04.legislation that would oblige the government to provide guidance,

:19:05. > :19:08.advice, in the very vast majority of cases, that advice would be that it

:19:09. > :19:14.would not be appropriate in the consumer 's best interest to

:19:15. > :19:20.proceed. So, there is in ten easy answer, but at the end of the day, I

:19:21. > :19:24.am not going to allow Barbr` but older people, to take advantage of

:19:25. > :19:33.what may superficially seem like a good deal but in the long tdrm is a

:19:34. > :19:39.poor one. John Lawson ahead of retirement policy at Aviva has said

:19:40. > :19:45.that one of the obstacles in the way of the secondary annuities larket is

:19:46. > :19:48.the existence of statutory override clauses in annuity contracts. Has

:19:49. > :19:51.this played any part in the government 's decision and has the

:19:52. > :19:57.government any plans to at least look at passing legislation to deal

:19:58. > :20:01.with this? I thank my own btbble friend for this question, it is

:20:02. > :20:05.certainly something that we will be looking at, at the end of the day

:20:06. > :20:09.many people got a poor deal on the way in, the last thing I want to do

:20:10. > :20:12.is give them a doubly poor deal on the way out because the market is

:20:13. > :20:21.not big enough to provide v`lue for money, and if that means, the option

:20:22. > :20:31.of reducing regulation, I al not a fan, regulation helps peopld make

:20:32. > :20:35.the right decision. The indtstry opposed this, millions of pdnsioners

:20:36. > :20:40.who were locked into low-paxing annuities, were supporters of it.

:20:41. > :20:44.The Chancellor at the time, knew all of the problems, yet he clahms to be

:20:45. > :20:52.the champion of choice for the people. What has changed, does the

:20:53. > :20:54.government now believe that people who they said would make good

:20:55. > :21:00.choices because they were sdnsible and would have good advice, have

:21:01. > :21:06.changed in their nature? And since he has route choice but not the

:21:07. > :21:10.problem, what does he intend to do for those who still find thdmselves

:21:11. > :21:18.locked, in annuity arrangemdnts that do not give them a sensible and a

:21:19. > :21:22.fairing come. -- that incomd. Thank you for the question, it is fair to

:21:23. > :21:25.say that the Chancellor of the extract at the time was not in

:21:26. > :21:32.possession of all of inform`tion the consultation. And it was our intend

:21:33. > :21:36.clearly at the time to listdn carefully to not only the industry

:21:37. > :21:41.but also consumer groups as well which we have done extensivdly, it

:21:42. > :21:45.is worth also saying, that we remain absolutely committed to all of the

:21:46. > :21:46.other pension freedoms that we are producing. It is a sensible way

:21:47. > :21:59.forward. Fears pop-up policy that has now

:22:00. > :22:03.been popped down again came from a government that had a long-term

:22:04. > :22:06.economic plan, yet this polhcy has not survived for grey long, as has

:22:07. > :22:11.already been indicated, the policy was a response to that bubbling

:22:12. > :22:16.sense of scandal that was there as people were stuck with me goal and

:22:17. > :22:19.marginal annuities and it w`s a chance to give them something

:22:20. > :22:23.different. If the Minister hs confident that he's avoiding a new

:22:24. > :22:28.scandal, people miss selling their annuities, what is he doing about

:22:29. > :22:36.the original scandal of meagre annuities that this policy was

:22:37. > :22:41.designed to. He is right th`t was certainly the intention of the

:22:42. > :22:45.policy, there is a long-terl plan because I'm concerned about the

:22:46. > :22:47.long-term financial well-behng of these older hounds vulnerable

:22:48. > :22:52.people, it is important that they get the right deal and make the

:22:53. > :22:58.right decisions. That is whx this particular suggestion which is one

:22:59. > :23:02.of many, isn't appropriate to carry forward. It is not a pop-up policy,

:23:03. > :23:10.we have listened carefully `nd we have made the right decision. This

:23:11. > :23:14.U-turn has come about about the concerns of mis-selling and also

:23:15. > :23:18.protecting consumers. The s`me risks and concerns must apply surdly to

:23:19. > :23:26.people that currently exerchse pension freedoms by cashing in, for

:23:27. > :23:30.lump sum is. As my rubble friend, suggested, when are we going to have

:23:31. > :23:38.a good parent review of the legislation? -- coherent review

:23:39. > :23:45.Thank you for the questions, the secondary new tees market is very

:23:46. > :23:49.different to cash and existhng sons. To be clear, selling and annuity

:23:50. > :23:55.would never have been the s`me as getting a refund on all of the money

:23:56. > :23:58.that was put into the product, with all of the original pension pot

:23:59. > :24:04.Purchasers would have paid what they thought, the income stream was

:24:05. > :24:08.worth, and without a compethtive market, that income stream would

:24:09. > :24:17.have represented poor value for money. And they would have got a

:24:18. > :24:25.very poor settlement as a rdsult. Point of order Mr Fabian Halilton.

:24:26. > :24:28.Thank you Mr Speaker, yesterday a Foreign Office questions, mx

:24:29. > :24:31.honourable friend, the Shadow Foreign Secretary asked the

:24:32. > :24:35.Parliamentary under Secretary of State the member for Bournelouth

:24:36. > :24:39.East "When can we expect full independent UN led investig`tions of

:24:40. > :24:44.the thousands of air strikes on civilian targets in Yemen". In his

:24:45. > :24:48.reply the Minister stated" there are not thousands as the honour`ble lady

:24:49. > :24:52.suggested, that is to misle`d the house, but there are a numbdr with

:24:53. > :24:57.which we are concerned and that need to be clarified." . However Mr

:24:58. > :25:01.Speaker I have discovered that the Guardian newspaper on the 16th of

:25:02. > :25:06.September stated that the independent Yemen data projdct,

:25:07. > :25:11.recalls more than 8600 air strikes between March 2015 when the Saudi

:25:12. > :25:16.led campaign began in August this year, and human rights watch lists

:25:17. > :25:18.dozens of air strikes that have appeared to be unlawfully

:25:19. > :25:23.indiscriminate and caused chvilian casualties. Mr Speaker can xou

:25:24. > :25:25.advise the house as to whether the minister needs to come to the

:25:26. > :25:32.chamber and correct his inaccurate and rather dismissive reply. I thank

:25:33. > :25:36.the honourable gentleman for giving me notice that he intended to raise

:25:37. > :25:40.this point of order, what mdmbers say, I often had to make thhs point

:25:41. > :25:46.but it bears repetition, wh`t members say in this house, hs their

:25:47. > :25:50.individual responsibility. This applies to ministers and indeed to

:25:51. > :25:54.opposition frontbenchers, as it did to other honourable and right

:25:55. > :25:56.honourable members. The honourable gentleman believes that minhsters

:25:57. > :26:02.have been inaccurate in what they said yesterday, specificallx he

:26:03. > :26:06.believes the response to thd Shadow Foreign Secretary was inacctrate, he

:26:07. > :26:10.has made that you clear. He has done so on the record. I'm sure ht will

:26:11. > :26:13.have been heard on the Treasury bench and it will be related to the

:26:14. > :26:21.Foreign Commonwealth Office. I'm also sure, that if the Forehgn

:26:22. > :26:25.Secretary and the Minister feel that the house has been inadvertdntly

:26:26. > :26:31.misled, the relevant Ministdr will take swift steps to correct the

:26:32. > :26:37.record. It is only fair for me to say, it is not for me to umpire on

:26:38. > :26:43.whether a clarification is required, that a minister made take a view of

:26:44. > :26:48.the facts of the matter which differs from that of the honourable

:26:49. > :26:56.gentleman. As to whether th`t is the case, we will have to await events.

:26:57. > :27:03.Thank you. If there are no further points of order, we come to the ten

:27:04. > :27:08.minute rule motion, Mr Kevin Jones. I beg to move, that lead be given to

:27:09. > :27:13.bring in a build to have provision about training qualification and

:27:14. > :27:17.certification, medical practitioners, and surgical

:27:18. > :27:20.procedures, to establish a code of practice, for the provision of

:27:21. > :27:25.information to patients on the options and risks in relations to

:27:26. > :27:29.procedures, to make provision, about permissible treatments, and the

:27:30. > :27:36.advertising of such treatments and for purposes. Mr Speaker I became

:27:37. > :27:43.aware of the scandal around the ?3.5 billion a year cosmetic surgery

:27:44. > :27:50.industry through a constitudnt Dawn Knight. She had surgery on her

:27:51. > :27:53.rising 2012. In a hospital run by the Hospital medical group. The

:27:54. > :27:59.surgery was sold to her with a lifetime after-care package to take

:28:00. > :28:04.care of any convocations from the procedure. Following the surgery,

:28:05. > :28:08.she was unable to close her rise and still to this day, she has to apply

:28:09. > :28:13.artificial tears to her eyes to stop them from drying out every two

:28:14. > :28:20.hours. She also saw a surgeon who undertook the procedure, who refused

:28:21. > :28:23.to admit there was a problel. When she contacted the hospital group

:28:24. > :28:28.about the after-care packagd, they simply pointed out to her, ` clause

:28:29. > :28:33.in the contact, that said treatments could only be undertaken if the

:28:34. > :28:39.surgeon agreed to it. Despite contacting the hospital grotp, no

:28:40. > :28:45.further help was offered, m`king a complete sham of the after-care plan

:28:46. > :28:50.that she was sold. Like in similar cases, the NHS is now having to pick

:28:51. > :29:00.up the bill for her ongoing care. Mr Speaker, her case is not isolated.

:29:01. > :29:09.Though the cosmetic group associate herself as a cosmetic surgery

:29:10. > :29:12.company, it is nothing of the sort. It is the facilities managelent

:29:13. > :29:16.company that simply provides facilities whether surgery takes

:29:17. > :29:20.place and markets the procedures. As dawn found out when she complained,

:29:21. > :29:24.her contract was not with the hospital group but with the surgeon

:29:25. > :29:29.who performed the procedure and was told that it was her responsibility

:29:30. > :29:36.to check the GMC registration and insurance. In dawn's case, the

:29:37. > :29:41.surgeon was a bankrupt, unddr insured individual who was based in

:29:42. > :29:47.Italy and flew into the UK to work for the hospital group. Mr Speaker,

:29:48. > :29:51.here in lies the problem. At present, cosmetic surgery is not a

:29:52. > :29:56.defined surgical speciality in its own right. As the Department for

:29:57. > :30:00.health have noted, the training within certain defined spechalities

:30:01. > :30:03.such as plastic surgery, in nose and great surgery and eye surgery

:30:04. > :30:06.includes some aspect of cosletic training that there is no

:30:07. > :30:13.qualification available for those who perform cosmetic surgerx. In

:30:14. > :30:18.fact, the law at present allows any qualified doctor, not even `

:30:19. > :30:22.surgeon, to perform cosmetic surgery without undertaking additional

:30:23. > :30:27.training qualifications. My bill aims, Mr Speaker, to close this

:30:28. > :30:30.loophole and has the support of the Royal College of surgeons. Lr

:30:31. > :30:33.Speaker, it is not the case that the Government and the Department of

:30:34. > :30:41.Health are unaware of the shtuation. In following the Pip breast implants

:30:42. > :30:46.scandal, the Government askdd Professor Sir Bruce Keogh, the NHS

:30:47. > :30:50.director at the time, to undertake a review of regulations of cosmetic

:30:51. > :30:58.interventions. This review was published in April 20 14 -- 201 ,

:30:59. > :31:03.and it asked the Royal Colldge of surgeons to establish a cosletic

:31:04. > :31:08.surgery into speciality comlittee to set a standard for cosmetic standard

:31:09. > :31:25.-- osmotic surgery training and standard. It required all to be of a

:31:26. > :31:31.standard to undertake the strgery. Legislation was drafted in 2014 and

:31:32. > :31:35.was largely supported, but the coalition Government failed to enact

:31:36. > :31:39.it and the present Government has also failed to enact that. The Royal

:31:40. > :31:43.College of surgeons would lhke to see only surgeons with appropriate

:31:44. > :31:47.skills and experience undertaking cosmetic surgery, something I

:31:48. > :31:54.strongly support and I think most members of the public would support

:31:55. > :32:00.as well. To facilitate this, the GMC need to be given legal powers to

:32:01. > :32:02.formally recognise addition`l qualifications or meditations such

:32:03. > :32:10.as the ones the Royal College of surgeons are developing in cosmetic

:32:11. > :32:13.surgery. It should then be landatory for those offering cosmetic surgery

:32:14. > :32:18.to not only have this, but to make clear to the public that thdy have

:32:19. > :32:23.them one they advertise there is -- when they advertise their sdrvices.

:32:24. > :32:27.I raised this on the 20th of October 2015 and I would like to put on

:32:28. > :32:30.record thanks to the right honourable member for Ipswich, who

:32:31. > :32:36.was then the health minister, who met myself and my constituent, dawn

:32:37. > :32:43.night. Another area in which the bill would like to address hs the

:32:44. > :32:46.marketing of cosmetic procedures. Some of the techniques used would be

:32:47. > :32:51.more appropriate for selling double glazing and cosmetic surgerx whether

:32:52. > :32:56.it's risks. These include two-for-one offers along with glossy

:32:57. > :32:59.brochures with no explanation of the potential risks of undergoing

:33:00. > :33:03.surgery. The whole thrust of the advertising is to sell the procedure

:33:04. > :33:06.without any counselling or `dvise on whether or not it is appropriate for

:33:07. > :33:13.the individual to undergo stch procedures. Individuals who have

:33:14. > :33:17.already gone -- undergone strgery for the Hospital medical group are

:33:18. > :33:20.often bombarded with adverts by e-mail and Facebook, despitd them

:33:21. > :33:26.being reported to the advertising standards agency. It is still

:33:27. > :33:30.ongoing. This type of aggressive marketing needs to be banned and a

:33:31. > :33:35.mandatory cooling off period needs to be introduced once peopld have

:33:36. > :33:38.signed up in order to allow them to change their mind. I would `lso go

:33:39. > :33:44.further to include mandatorx counselling for individuals before

:33:45. > :33:49.they actually undertake any type of procedure. Mr Speaker, the final

:33:50. > :33:54.area I would like to address is the way in which the companies that sell

:33:55. > :34:00.cosmetic surgery are structtred Dornan responded to an advert from

:34:01. > :34:05.the hospital group but her contract with is with a group called the

:34:06. > :34:10.hospital medical group Limited. If you look at companies house, you

:34:11. > :34:15.will see that under the main hospital group Holdings, thdre are

:34:16. > :34:19.eight different companies. Hn 2 13, the turnover of the group w`s ? 4

:34:20. > :34:26.million and dividends were paid to its directors of ?7.5 million. In

:34:27. > :34:37.2016, the hospital medical group was liquidated and its assets sold to

:34:38. > :34:42.the parent company. 8% of those listed as liquidators are solicitors

:34:43. > :34:48.representing former clients. One could suspect that this strtcture

:34:49. > :34:52.has been put in place so th`t former clients cannot sue the comp`ny for

:34:53. > :34:57.negligence. Along with the liquidation, dawn's lifetimd

:34:58. > :35:02.guarantee she was sold is now, along with a lot of other people's

:35:03. > :35:08.guarantees, completely workless -- worthless. Clearly regulation is

:35:09. > :35:15.necessary to ensure that gu`rantees are able to be used in order to get

:35:16. > :35:19.redress and despite large ntmbers of women having no recourse to law the

:35:20. > :35:24.group itself is also continting to sell these products and operate The

:35:25. > :35:29.continuing care of these individuals is falling on the NHS while the

:35:30. > :35:33.hospital medical group and associated companies continte to

:35:34. > :35:40.make large profits. Any guarantees need to be backed by insurance to

:35:41. > :35:44.ensure that if a company is liquidated, the necessary insurance

:35:45. > :35:49.is in place for people to gdt legal redress. Finally Mr Speaker, the

:35:50. > :35:51.Prime Minister in her speech to the Conservative Party conference said

:35:52. > :35:56.that the state should intervene where the market fails. Well, I

:35:57. > :36:00.think what we have got here is a classic example of what I would

:36:01. > :36:03.suggest is not just a market that is failing, but is being used to

:36:04. > :36:08.exploit people, ruining thehr lives and costing the NHS millions of

:36:09. > :36:11.pounds a year. The Government are aware that this area needs `ction

:36:12. > :36:18.and there is no reason why they should not act. Order. The puestion

:36:19. > :36:25.is that the honourable membdr have leave to bring in the bill. People

:36:26. > :36:33.say iMac. On the contrary, no. Who will prepare and bring in the bill?

:36:34. > :36:37.Holly Lynch, glad Cummings, the own and paddock, Mr Ian Wright, Mrs

:36:38. > :37:15.Anne-Marie Trevelyan and myself Cosmetic surgery standards of

:37:16. > :37:24.practice built. Second readhng what day? Friday the 24th of March. Thank

:37:25. > :37:32.you. We now come to the Opposition Day motion on the rights of EU

:37:33. > :37:37.nationals. This notion in the name of the leader of the Scottish

:37:38. > :37:45.National party to move the lotion, I called Joanna Cherry. Thank you Mr

:37:46. > :37:50.Speaker. I rise to move this motion on behalf of myself and my

:37:51. > :37:53.honourable friend. Mr Speakdr, it is nearly four months since thd EU

:37:54. > :37:59.referendum and the long-terl status of non-UK EU nationals living in the

:38:00. > :38:03.United Kingdom is still unclear Just as the Government is still

:38:04. > :38:09.without a plan or a negotiating strategy for the Brexit it

:38:10. > :38:13.accidentally delivered, the status of millions of our fellow workers,

:38:14. > :38:19.our friends and our neighbotrs is uncertain. Mr Speaker, it is simply

:38:20. > :38:21.not good enough. Despite repeated requests, this Government h`s

:38:22. > :38:26.refused to guarantee, in thd long-term, the rights of EU

:38:27. > :38:31.nationals who have made thehr home in the United Kingdom. In the

:38:32. > :38:35.meantime, Mr Speaker, in England and Wales, hate crime has soared and

:38:36. > :38:38.xenophobic rhetoric is common in the mainstream media and sadly, also in

:38:39. > :38:45.the mouths of Government ministers sometimes. The Government vdry

:38:46. > :38:51.clearly said that they had no wish to make anyone believe unless there

:38:52. > :38:54.were evictions from the continent. Is she saying that continental

:38:55. > :39:00.Europe will evict a British citizens? The whole point of this

:39:01. > :39:04.motion is that human beings should not be used as bargaining chips If

:39:05. > :39:08.the honourable member and hhs colleagues think that the United

:39:09. > :39:12.Kingdom has so much to offer the European Union in its negothations,

:39:13. > :39:19.why do they then insist on tsing human beings as bargaining chips?

:39:20. > :39:23.I'll give way. I'm very grateful to my friend for giving way. Would she

:39:24. > :39:27.agree with me that many of the people we are talking about provide

:39:28. > :39:31.vital services and work in our public services? 6% of doctors in

:39:32. > :39:37.the Welsh Health Service cole from the EU. We are facing a crisis

:39:38. > :39:43.whereby a third of our doctors may retire in the next few years and we

:39:44. > :39:47.will need extra to work in the NHS. A policy enacted like that would

:39:48. > :39:50.have a detrimental effect on services in this country. I entirely

:39:51. > :39:57.agree with my honourable frhend These statistics are very shmilar in

:39:58. > :40:03.Scotland. About 6.5% of staff in the NHS are EU nationals. Mr Spdaker,

:40:04. > :40:05.the net result of the refus`l to guarantee the long-term status of EU

:40:06. > :40:09.nationals and xenophobic rhdtoric and hate crime we are seeing across

:40:10. > :40:16.the United Kingdom is that lany many EU nationals are living under

:40:17. > :40:20.considerable stress and worry. We all receive letters from thdm as

:40:21. > :40:25.their constituency MPs. But also, Mr Speaker, damage has been done to the

:40:26. > :40:33.British economy and, very importantly, damage has been done to

:40:34. > :40:36.our international reputation. My honourable friend will undotbtedly

:40:37. > :40:42.have read the disgraceful comments on some press this morning where a

:40:43. > :40:50.Tory MP suggested child reftgees should have do undergo dent`l checks

:40:51. > :40:54.in order to gain passage to the UK from Calais. As if these chhldren

:40:55. > :40:57.have not undergone enough. Leaving aside the fact that they have legal

:40:58. > :41:09.rights to be here, does she agree with me that... Order. Therd is a

:41:10. > :41:13.point of order... I am the Conservative MP who is being

:41:14. > :41:17.referred to at the moment. This is not a matter that is before us at

:41:18. > :41:21.the moment. I wanted to spe`k about EU migrants, being married to one

:41:22. > :41:27.myself. If the honourable gdntleman opposite wants to raise a dhfferent

:41:28. > :41:32.matter, would I be able to `nswer that later even know it has nothing

:41:33. > :41:36.to do with this debate? I dhd not judge it to be disorderly. Order. I

:41:37. > :41:39.did not judge it to be disorderly although it does need to be done

:41:40. > :41:43.briefly. I did not think it was disorderly and I don't think it was

:41:44. > :41:46.disorderly but I give the honourable gentleman the assurance that he is

:41:47. > :41:51.entitled to seek that he will have an opportunity in his remarks to

:41:52. > :41:58.respond as he thinks fit and no one should deny him that opporttnity.

:41:59. > :42:01.Briefly, Mr Gray, let's hear it Does my honourable Leonard friend

:42:02. > :42:05.agree with me that this typd of disgraceful, xenophobic rhetoric is

:42:06. > :42:08.unhelpfully fuelling the kind of xenophobic attacks we have seen

:42:09. > :42:14.across the country since thd Brexit debate? Yes, I very much do agree

:42:15. > :42:18.with my honourable friend and, Mr Speaker, it is incumbent upon all of

:42:19. > :42:21.us in public life to be mindful of the language ee we use, particularly

:42:22. > :42:27.when we are talking about rdfugees who are children. The definhtion of

:42:28. > :42:31.a child being under 18. I think I will make some progress now, if you

:42:32. > :42:34.don't mind. Those of us who have actually been to Calais and met some

:42:35. > :42:38.of the child refugees and sden, some of them are young men, but they are

:42:39. > :42:44.still children, and seen thdm separated from their familids and in

:42:45. > :42:47.tears by the comments to whhch my honourable friend refers dedply

:42:48. > :42:52.distasteful. I am just going to make progress if I may. Tomorrow, the

:42:53. > :42:56.Prime Minister will attend her first European Union summit in Brtssels. I

:42:57. > :43:04.very much hope it will not be her last. It's position on EU mhgrants

:43:05. > :43:07.will be a central issue. Now is the opportunity for the United Kingdom

:43:08. > :43:12.Government to do the right thing and save the Scottish National party,

:43:13. > :43:16.the Scottish National party called on this House today to recognise the

:43:17. > :43:21.contribution of EU nationals made to the UK and we also call upon the UK

:43:22. > :43:25.Government to ensure that all EU nationals who have made this country

:43:26. > :43:31.their home retain the kind of rights, including rights to live and

:43:32. > :43:36.work in this country, should the UK exit the European Union. I'll give

:43:37. > :43:41.way. I thank the honourable lady for giving way. I was assured bx the

:43:42. > :43:44.Secretary of State at the Home Office, I asked him how an DU

:43:45. > :43:49.citizen demonstrate that having lived in the UK for more th`n five

:43:50. > :43:53.years, how's citizenship is saved after six years, which department

:43:54. > :43:56.would be responsible for confirming the right to remain, what

:43:57. > :44:03.citizenship they would be able to claim and what the estimate of the

:44:04. > :44:06.costs would be for going through this process? I was told in reply to

:44:07. > :44:10.that question that the Home Office had indicated it will not bd

:44:11. > :44:15.possible to answer this question within the usual time period. Isn't

:44:16. > :44:18.it time we got our act together as a country and gave people who have

:44:19. > :44:20.given their lives and taxes to this country the security that they need

:44:21. > :44:29.to know that they can remain. These are all very serious `nd

:44:30. > :44:33.worthy interventions but thdy do suffer from the disadvantagd of

:44:34. > :44:38.being too long, this must not continue, we must try and rdstore

:44:39. > :44:41.some order, I don't want to embarrass you unduly, but if members

:44:42. > :44:48.could model themselves in tdrms of Trevor T for the honourable member

:44:49. > :44:55.of working and Edgbaston, they would serve themselves well. I cotldn t

:44:56. > :44:58.agree with the honourable l`dy more, this is symptomatic Mr Speaker of

:44:59. > :44:59.the complete failure of varhous governments to answer any qtestions

:45:00. > :45:08.arising from the strategy that they will presumably

:45:09. > :45:13.need to adopt, I will take ht in a moment, as a result of the vote on

:45:14. > :45:16.the 24th of June. Just pickhng up on the point made by the honourable

:45:17. > :45:20.lady, I'm delighted Mr Speaker that the Scottish National party have the

:45:21. > :45:24.full support of Labour Partx colleagues in this motion today and

:45:25. > :45:27.we are very happy to work whth them to be part of a cross-party

:45:28. > :45:34.Progressive Alliance which H'm sure would include some members from the

:45:35. > :45:38.opposite side of the house, to protect, to protect, to protect the

:45:39. > :45:42.right of EU nationals across the UK. Mr Speaker I'm spoiled for choice by

:45:43. > :45:48.interventions, I think I will take... I completely agree with the

:45:49. > :45:52.first part of it which recognises the contribution made by EU

:45:53. > :45:56.nationals but does she not recognise that the responsibility for my

:45:57. > :45:59.honourable friend the Minister and the Prime Minister, their fhrst

:46:00. > :46:02.responsibility are two Brithsh citizens, more than a million of

:46:03. > :46:07.whom are in the European Unhon. Their rights need to be protected.

:46:08. > :46:09.Her motion is silent about their interests. It is open to thd

:46:10. > :46:15.honourable gentleman to bring forward such a motion, this motion

:46:16. > :46:18.is about protecting the rights of EU nationals in the United Kingdom

:46:19. > :46:23.which the United Kingdom government is in a position to do. I'm grateful

:46:24. > :46:27.to the honourable lady, my husband is a citizen in Germany, he runs a

:46:28. > :46:31.very small business in Germ`ny and he was horrified by the tond of his

:46:32. > :46:39.government in looking after his rights, as a person establishing

:46:40. > :46:43.himself abroad. He says to le do they not understand that threatening

:46:44. > :46:52.Europe is not the best way to open the negotiations. By Milly said they

:46:53. > :46:55.don't. As I said earlier, if Abbey constantly told by Brexiteers,

:46:56. > :47:04.trading and having agreements with Britain is such a fantastic option

:47:05. > :47:11.for European Union, then my must the government keep up its sleeves, the

:47:12. > :47:13.trips of individuals. I just note in passing that the honourable

:47:14. > :47:17.gentleman, if you wanted to make this point he could have put down an

:47:18. > :47:22.amendment but chose not to do. On the question of the right thing it

:47:23. > :47:27.it is the right thing to look after own communities as well and EU

:47:28. > :47:30.nationals are essential functioning people in many businesses in

:47:31. > :47:34.communities. Absolutely I couldn't agree with my honourable frhend

:47:35. > :47:38.more, the purpose of this motion is to make sure that we don't get into

:47:39. > :47:44.the fortunate position in United Kingdom of having people living

:47:45. > :47:48.here, working here and paying tax, who have lesser rights and lesser

:47:49. > :47:51.status than others. That wotld be deeply invidious and if I m`y say so

:47:52. > :47:59.as a Scottish nationalist, H would have thought contrary to thd British

:48:00. > :48:02.tradition. I give way. Equally there will be Bridges citizens working

:48:03. > :48:06.abroad we don't want to be suffering from any lesser rights, which she

:48:07. > :48:09.going to negotiating chamber armed only with the glow of the goodwill

:48:10. > :48:17.and the moral high ground as against the hard-headed negotiations of her

:48:18. > :48:22.interlocutors? I am happy and proud to say that I and my Scottish

:48:23. > :48:29.National party is never going to negotiating chamber using individual

:48:30. > :48:35.human beings as bargaining chips. I am just looking to progress. Mr

:48:36. > :48:40.Speaker, I use the word bargaining chips advisedly, because it is a

:48:41. > :48:44.source of shame to this house and the United Kingdom, that thd Prime

:48:45. > :48:47.Minister and several of her ministers including the Secretary of

:48:48. > :48:50.State for exiting the Europdan Union and I particularly am ashamdd to say

:48:51. > :48:57.the shekel Gill state for Scotland have hinted EU nationals in this

:48:58. > :49:01.country as bargaining chips. Indeed at the Conservative Party conference

:49:02. > :49:05.which will enjoy watching so much on television, the Secretary of State

:49:06. > :49:13.for International Trade went so far as to compare the European Tnion

:49:14. > :49:17.nationals, two cards in a g`me. I thank the rubble lady for ghving

:49:18. > :49:23.way, she's talking about European citizens being used as barg`ining

:49:24. > :49:25.chips, De she would call th`t in 2014 Nicola Sturgeon herself

:49:26. > :49:30.threatened that he nationals the right to remain in Scotland, as

:49:31. > :49:40.reported in the Scotsman newspaper. She said, as reported in thd

:49:41. > :49:44.Scotsman newspaper, they sahd "There are 160,000 EU people in Scotland

:49:45. > :49:48.including some in Glasgow, hf Scotland was outside Europe they

:49:49. > :49:58.would lose the right to stax here". Who is using the bargaining chips?

:49:59. > :50:01.Never said that. Can I in the gentlest and friendliest wax Council

:50:02. > :50:08.the honourable member against taking advice firstly from the Conservative

:50:09. > :50:11.Party in Scotland and secondly from the Scotsman newspaper which is

:50:12. > :50:17.frankly not what it was when I was a girl. There is absolutely no

:50:18. > :50:21.question, if I could just fhnished the point there is absolutely no

:50:22. > :50:26.question that the First Minhster Nicola Sturgeon or her preddcessor,

:50:27. > :50:29.the distinguished and right Honourable member for Gordon ever

:50:30. > :50:34.threatened EU nationals with not being part of Scottish socidty. Our

:50:35. > :50:38.policy has been clear for m`ny, many years that we want an indepdndent

:50:39. > :50:42.Scotland in a European Union with equal rights for all living in

:50:43. > :50:46.Scotland. We are quite clear on that, watch this debate is `bout

:50:47. > :50:53.today is making the UK Government clear on having equal rights across

:50:54. > :50:57.the United Kingdom. I give way to the honourable gentleman. I had been

:50:58. > :51:00.listening to her speech with care, she has been pressed time and again

:51:01. > :51:04.as to whether she would defdnd the rights of citizens of this nation

:51:05. > :51:09.who are living abroad and thme and again she has refused to do so. I

:51:10. > :51:12.give her one more opportunity, would she stand up for Britain and British

:51:13. > :51:22.citizens for their rights across the grope? -- the globe. Yes of course I

:51:23. > :51:25.would, I'm not gay to be sidetracked,

:51:26. > :51:33.the -- if the rubble member and his colleagues were so agitated about

:51:34. > :51:37.this, then has my honourabld friend said, they would have been free to

:51:38. > :51:44.make an amendment to the motion I am delighted to hear, that they are

:51:45. > :51:50.so concerned about the welf`re of people from Europe which has been

:51:51. > :51:57.put at risk. What I would lhke to see them do. Is to extend, the same

:51:58. > :52:01.concern, to EU nationals living in the United Kingdom. That is what

:52:02. > :52:05.this motion is about and no amount of obscure cajun from the honourable

:52:06. > :52:13.members opposite are going to change that. Would my noble friend not

:52:14. > :52:17.agree with me that you can `ctually negotiate in two ways, positively

:52:18. > :52:21.and negatively. If we had graciously on the 24th of June said evdryone

:52:22. > :52:25.who has settled here can live here, that would have been returndd. When

:52:26. > :52:29.I met the German ambassador, it had not occurred to them, that they

:52:30. > :52:37.would throw British citizens out. That idea has only come bec`use we

:52:38. > :52:41.are threatening their citizdns. I couldn't agree more with my

:52:42. > :52:45.honourable friend. I'm going to try and make some progress now Ladam

:52:46. > :52:49.Deputy Speaker as I have taken a lot of interventions and I'm anxious to

:52:50. > :53:00.make some progress, I'm happy to put the members opposite, right later.

:53:01. > :53:03.Mr Speaker, Madam Deputy Spdaker we wouldn't expect 1.2 million UK

:53:04. > :53:09.citizens that live in other EU countries, to be treated as

:53:10. > :53:15.bargaining chips. And we wotldn t expect the governments of other EU

:53:16. > :53:20.union countries, to preside over a shocking rise in xenophobia and hate

:53:21. > :53:24.crime. So the UK Government must accept it share of responsibility

:53:25. > :53:34.for what is going on at the moment and stop fuelling division. I

:53:35. > :53:38.entirely share her sentiments, and we all want to reassure, people who

:53:39. > :53:42.are here. We must be careful not to actually arouse a sense of

:53:43. > :53:48.insecurity amongst them. Th`t she agree with me, that I den of any

:53:49. > :53:54.member of this house in any party who wishes to remove EU nathonals

:53:55. > :53:57.who now lawfully are here, `nd I had never met a European politician from

:53:58. > :54:01.any country as her neighbour said, and I have met quite a lot of

:54:02. > :54:05.European politicians, who whshes to remove British nationals who have

:54:06. > :54:13.settled down there. So we are having a rather artificial debate here

:54:14. > :54:16.Would it not be best if this was all sorted out in the summit tolorrow

:54:17. > :54:21.and the leaders quickly agrded that neither side was actually going to

:54:22. > :54:27.seek in any negotiations to remove National 's lawfully living in their

:54:28. > :54:29.respective territories. I always listen to what The Right Honourable

:54:30. > :54:34.and learner gentleman says with great care because I think he has

:54:35. > :54:39.made an amazing contribution to this debate over the opinion in recent

:54:40. > :54:42.years. However this is not `n artificial debate, I hate to

:54:43. > :54:46.disillusion The Right Honourable and learn a gentleman but one of his

:54:47. > :54:49.conservative and Unionist p`rties in Scotland, MM robber Scottish

:54:50. > :54:53.parliament recently suggestdd in a conservative Unionist party

:54:54. > :54:56.sanctioned press release, that EU citizens living in Scotland should

:54:57. > :55:04.not have the same right to participate in civil societx as

:55:05. > :55:09.others. So it is a very, very real concern and for the record he was

:55:10. > :55:13.referring to a French national, who lives in Scotland and was previously

:55:14. > :55:18.a member in the Scottish parliament. I'm now going to make some progress,

:55:19. > :55:25.I will take some more interventions late run but I would like to make

:55:26. > :55:29.some progress. Madam Deputy Speaker, Scotland is an inclusive and outward

:55:30. > :55:33.looking society and we recognise the immense contribution that mhgrants

:55:34. > :55:38.make to the Scottish economx, our society and our culture. We firmly

:55:39. > :55:41.believe that similar views `re held by many throughout these islands,

:55:42. > :55:46.the rest of the 90 kingdom. And we are appearing today to the TK

:55:47. > :55:51.Government, to listen to those voices across the UK who do not want

:55:52. > :55:56.EU nationals living in the Tnited Kingdom, used as bargaining chips in

:55:57. > :56:01.the Brexit negotiations. Madam Deputy Speaker, this union of

:56:02. > :56:06.nations, should be better than that. I give way to the honourabld

:56:07. > :56:10.gentleman. I'm grateful to the honourable lady for giving way, we

:56:11. > :56:15.can both agree I think that the right moral member for Rushcliffe is

:56:16. > :56:19.right when he says nobody in this house at all would want to seek EU

:56:20. > :56:23.nationals living and working here expelled, but the point is, that

:56:24. > :56:28.there are people out there, could have been emboldened by the climate,

:56:29. > :56:34.who wants to seek EU nation`ls living here expelled, and ghving the

:56:35. > :56:39.sort of signal that she is calling for, which I support, would be a

:56:40. > :56:43.very powerful signal, in saxing that the views of these people are

:56:44. > :56:52.wholeheartedly rejected, by all right-thinking people. I'm grateful

:56:53. > :56:57.for The Right Honourable gentle man grateful for the support, in this

:56:58. > :57:01.motion. As I said, I intend to make some progress. I want to sax little

:57:02. > :57:05.bit about the valuable contribution that you migrants make to otr

:57:06. > :57:09.society across the UK. We all know that there are about 3 millhon UK

:57:10. > :57:15.migrants living in United Khngdom and about 173,000 of them lhve in

:57:16. > :57:19.Scotland. Data that was produced during the EU referendum show, that

:57:20. > :57:25.contrary to popular myth, ET migrants in the UK make a ndt

:57:26. > :57:28.contribution to the economy. Indeed Madam Deputy Speaker, the ET

:57:29. > :57:33.citizens who come to live and work in Scotland are critical to key

:57:34. > :57:36.sectors of the economy, over 12 of the people who work in the

:57:37. > :57:41.agricultural sector art you migrants. 11th scent of people who

:57:42. > :57:46.work in our imported food, fish and meat processing sectors are you

:57:47. > :57:51.citizens. In my own constittency, I have two major universities,

:57:52. > :57:54.Edinburgh and Herriot Watt, who would be greatly affected bx Adie

:57:55. > :58:00.crease in the number of EU nationals choosing to study research `nd

:58:01. > :58:04.teach. I'm grateful, she's laking a wonderful case for the contribution

:58:05. > :58:06.that you nationals make to the Scottish and British public life

:58:07. > :58:11.which is something that we have to be much more confident in m`king.

:58:12. > :58:16.Will she agree that it is not just about the contribution that she

:58:17. > :58:21.makes, there are sectors, that there are well renowned science is to

:58:22. > :58:24.tutor, that has 25% of their staff are EU nationals. They need the

:58:25. > :58:30.certainty that they can stax so that Edinburgh can stay in the top 1 0

:58:31. > :58:34.universities around the world. He and I are privileged to havd

:58:35. > :58:38.students and academics from three very fine university spread across,

:58:39. > :58:42.are constituency and I'm sure that like me he spent the summer meeting

:58:43. > :58:46.with academics and students from these universities, and Mad`m Deputy

:58:47. > :58:51.Speaker I was informed fray shortly after the EU reverend by thd

:58:52. > :58:55.principal of Edinburgh, that she had already been advised within days of

:58:56. > :58:58.the referendum, of potential staff members from other EU countries

:58:59. > :59:05.withdrawing from job offers from universities across Scotland.

:59:06. > :59:10.When I met with academic st`ff at Heriot Watt University over the

:59:11. > :59:15.summer, they expressed similar concerns about the quality of their

:59:16. > :59:19.teaching and research will be undermined if the position of EU

:59:20. > :59:22.migrants in Scotland is not guaranteed and I have no dotbt that

:59:23. > :59:29.this is the same across England Wales and Northern Ireland. I think

:59:30. > :59:34.this is a really important point, the issue about how EU citizens feel

:59:35. > :59:38.about remaining in the UK. Hn that case, I have not heard a single

:59:39. > :59:42.member of these benches or `nyone in this House on the side saying they

:59:43. > :59:47.want anyone to leave at all. The whole issue is only being r`ised by

:59:48. > :59:52.the SNP, only being used by the Labour Party and I would just very

:59:53. > :59:57.gently say be aware that whdn you make these cases for political

:59:58. > :00:03.reasons about which can you so that should not be felt by any ET citizen

:00:04. > :00:08.in the UK. I cannot speak for the honourable member's constittents or

:00:09. > :00:13.the mail that he receives btt I am sure I can speak to the SNP when I

:00:14. > :00:17.say that we all receive concern from EU citizens and I am sure that

:00:18. > :00:22.members on the benches behind me with speak on the same issud when

:00:23. > :00:27.they rise to speak. This is not fear mongering, and believe you le, we in

:00:28. > :00:36.the SNP are experts on fear mongering after the referendum. .

:00:37. > :00:41.And this is, I am not going to give away because I am going to lake some

:00:42. > :00:45.progress, this, Madam Deputx Speaker, is a valid issue about

:00:46. > :00:51.which many constituents are very concerned and we would be s`lient in

:00:52. > :00:54.our -- failing in our responsibilities if we didn't raise

:00:55. > :00:59.it, no matter how embarrasshng it is for the benches opposite. The NHS

:01:00. > :01:06.has already been mentioned by my honourable friend and, as hd said,

:01:07. > :01:15.6% of doctors in Wales are DU migrants. Just under 7% of doctors

:01:16. > :01:25.in Scotland and have an EU nationality. Put bluntly, otr NHS

:01:26. > :01:29.would struggle to cope without them. There are very valid concerns, Madam

:01:30. > :01:32.Deputy Speaker, that pushing EU nationals to leave due to

:01:33. > :01:38.uncertainties about their ftture would have a devastating impact on

:01:39. > :01:40.the NHS, the hospitality and agricultural sectors, higher

:01:41. > :01:45.education and science, all of which rely heavily on Labour from the EU.

:01:46. > :01:49.I also share the concerns m`de by the trade union Congress, M`dam

:01:50. > :01:53.Deputy Speaker, who has said that the longer we leave EU workdrs are

:01:54. > :01:58.uncertain about their futurd, the greater the likelihood that they

:01:59. > :02:01.believe, creating staffing shortages that will particularly negatively

:02:02. > :02:06.affect our public services, only serving to increase the concerns

:02:07. > :02:10.felt by those who voted to leave the EU to increase resources for public

:02:11. > :02:22.services. Not much sign of that happening, is there? Talking of

:02:23. > :02:26.uncertainty, as she was just then, could I just ask very briefly about

:02:27. > :02:32.the last few words of the n`tion? Why is it that this motion refers

:02:33. > :02:50.to, and I quote, should the UK exit the EU? Why is it should? Bdcause

:02:51. > :02:55.the reality is, the reality is that 17.4 million people voted for this

:02:56. > :02:59.country to leave the Europe`n Union and we are going to leave the

:03:00. > :03:09.European Union. There is no showed about it. That word should surely be

:03:10. > :03:15.when? I don't think I can answer the intervention better than my

:03:16. > :03:18.honourable friend did but what I will say is that the honour`ble

:03:19. > :03:23.gentleman will be aware that in Scotland, a huge, why a hugd

:03:24. > :03:27.majority, we voted to remain a member of the EU and that the SNP

:03:28. > :03:31.will do everything in their might to ensure that the wishes of the

:03:32. > :03:36.Scottish people are respectdd. I give way to the honourable

:03:37. > :03:41.gentleman. I am most grateftl and she makes a very powerful c`se. Am I

:03:42. > :03:47.right, all she is seeking to do in this debate is to ensure th`t there

:03:48. > :03:51.is clarity? The right honourable member for Rushcliffe has s`id that

:03:52. > :03:54.nobody in this House would like to see any EU national leave the

:03:55. > :03:59.country. Wouldn't it be the best course of action at the end of this

:04:00. > :04:04.debate and the Minister was just to say, these rights are grantdd? I

:04:05. > :04:07.couldn't have put it better or more that thinking myself. I am very

:04:08. > :04:14.grateful to the honourable lember for that. I mentioned earlidr in my

:04:15. > :04:19.speech the phenomenon of thd rise in hate crime across England and Wales

:04:20. > :04:24.since the referendum. Home Office statistics published just over a

:04:25. > :04:28.week ago show that hate criles have soared by 41% in England and Wales.

:04:29. > :04:32.Madam Deputy Speaker, I would suggest that this is a symptom of

:04:33. > :04:38.the negative and xenophobic rhetoric used by some, not all, in the lead

:04:39. > :04:45.up to the referendum. This has had a major effect in legitimising hate

:04:46. > :04:51.crime on the part of a small but violent and vocal minority. In that

:04:52. > :04:56.connection, many of us were very concerned about some of the rhetoric

:04:57. > :05:02.that came out of the Conservative and Unionist Party Conference in

:05:03. > :05:05.Birmingham the other week. Ht is not just the concern of the SNP.

:05:06. > :05:12.Concerns have also been raised by other members in this House, also by

:05:13. > :05:18.international human rights bodies. The UN committee on the elilination

:05:19. > :05:23.of discrimination, the Council of Europe's body on human rights and

:05:24. > :05:26.those against racism and intolerance have all expressed concern `bout the

:05:27. > :05:33.spike in hate crime in Engl`nd and Wales. I thank you for giving way.

:05:34. > :05:36.Does she agree with me that this situation requires leadershhp? It

:05:37. > :05:40.requires leadership and a Prime Minister that will advocate of the

:05:41. > :05:48.best interests of every single person in this country, EU national

:05:49. > :05:55.or otherwise, and the need for inclusivity and leadership hn this

:05:56. > :05:59.debate. It is the purpose of this motion to invite the United Kingdom

:06:00. > :06:04.Government to follow the le`d that the Scottish Government havd shown

:06:05. > :06:08.in this respect... I am verx grateful for her giving way again

:06:09. > :06:11.and again, I emphasise her compelling speech. Does the

:06:12. > :06:17.Government not also have to look at the will of this House, who in July

:06:18. > :06:25.voted 245 votes to two, to do the very thing that her motion today is

:06:26. > :06:28.asking, and rather than makhng xenophobic speeches at the

:06:29. > :06:33.Conservative Party conference, they should be doing what this House has

:06:34. > :06:36.already voted for. The honotrable gentleman is completely right. Big

:06:37. > :06:46.and have failed to respect the outcome of that debate. The Polish

:06:47. > :06:50.ambassador gave evidence yesterday to the Lords European Union Justice

:06:51. > :06:53.subcommittee and said that he had noticed an increase in xenophobic

:06:54. > :06:59.behaviour in Britain since the Brexit vote. He expressed concern

:07:00. > :07:04.about the uncertainty being caused to Polish nationals living hn the

:07:05. > :07:08.UK. There we have another SNP voice talking about the very concdrned

:07:09. > :07:15.that makes us bring forward this motion today. I am pleased that we

:07:16. > :07:19.have not seen any increase hn hate crime north of the border btt we

:07:20. > :07:23.must all always be vigilant to ensure that hate crime is m`de

:07:24. > :07:27.unacceptable across the whole of the United Kingdom. I give way to the

:07:28. > :07:33.honourable gentleman. I thank the honourable lady for giving way.

:07:34. > :07:37.Look, I have been a remain for a very long time but I have come to

:07:38. > :07:40.this chamber listening very carefully and intently to what the

:07:41. > :07:43.honourable lady is saying, `nd also listening to my honourable friend

:07:44. > :07:48.for Rushcliffe just now, in saying that no one disagrees with but the

:07:49. > :07:53.lady is saying. No one disagrees that we shouldn't protect ET

:07:54. > :08:00.nationals as we protect our UK citizens. From the TU, why hs it not

:08:01. > :08:08.the case that you did not ptt this in your motion before this House? I

:08:09. > :08:13.would have voted with you. No, the honourable gentleman, definhtely, in

:08:14. > :08:22.everything he should have s`id didn't need mean -- didn't lean me.

:08:23. > :08:26.The members opposite felt this could be improved, it was open to them to

:08:27. > :08:32.bring forward an amendment `nd we would have looked at it cardfully as

:08:33. > :08:35.we always do. I want to makd some progress as I am conscious H have

:08:36. > :08:39.taken a lot of interventions and I want to wind up fairly soon. I want

:08:40. > :08:42.to speak about what the Scottish Government has been doing shnce the

:08:43. > :08:46.referendum. Members will recall that immediately after the referdndum

:08:47. > :08:51.result, the First Minister loved very quickly to give EU cithzens in

:08:52. > :08:55.Scotland reassurance that the Scottish Government wed this you

:08:56. > :08:59.every possible option to protect Scotland's position in Europe, and

:09:00. > :09:05.by extension, the interest of the people from the European Unhon who

:09:06. > :09:10.live here. Indeed, at an evdnt unprecedented in my constittency in

:09:11. > :09:13.August, the First Minister held an open question and answer session

:09:14. > :09:17.with EU nationals and I can tell the members opposite, it was extremely

:09:18. > :09:21.well attended by EU nationals living and working in my constituency and

:09:22. > :09:25.other parts of Scotland who had many concerns and questions for the First

:09:26. > :09:31.Minister about their status in the United Kingdom following thd vote.

:09:32. > :09:36.At our conference last weekdnd, the Scottish National party passed a

:09:37. > :09:40.motion condemning xenophobi` in all its forms. It made it very clear in

:09:41. > :09:43.no uncertain terms that international citizens are welcome

:09:44. > :09:47.in Scotland and indeed, in her closing address to the SNP

:09:48. > :09:53.conference in Glasgow on Saturday, the First Minister talked of the

:09:54. > :09:57.uniting vision of an inclushve, prosperous, socially just, open

:09:58. > :10:01.welcoming and outward looking country, contrasting best to the

:10:02. > :10:04.xenophobic rhetoric of the TK Government. The difference between

:10:05. > :10:09.the SNP conference and the Tory conference could not be starker

:10:10. > :10:15.But, Madam Deputy Speaker, H am very well aware that the desire for

:10:16. > :10:20.inclusivity, openness, welcoming mess and outward looking is not the

:10:21. > :10:24.preserve of the Nationalist -- the Scottish National party and the

:10:25. > :10:28.Scots, it is shared by many people across these isles and it is time

:10:29. > :10:34.that the members opposite lhved up to the good aspects of the British

:10:35. > :10:39.transition -- the British tradition, the good aspects of our repttation

:10:40. > :10:44.abroad and stopped underminhng them with some of the rhetoric over the

:10:45. > :10:49.last few months. I am delighted to get this reaction and give way. I am

:10:50. > :10:53.grateful to the honourable lady for giving way. Nobody is suggesting

:10:54. > :10:57.that anybody is going to be injected from the United Kingdom and she is

:10:58. > :11:02.simply setting hares running. But would she understand and adlit that

:11:03. > :11:05.there is a layer of complexhty that she has completely ignored? So, if

:11:06. > :11:11.she is giving rights to people, which I think we would all `ccept,

:11:12. > :11:17.what date would you choose? What then happens when people go outside

:11:18. > :11:20.the UK and seek to return? @ll these things are also relevant to British

:11:21. > :11:27.nationals that the Government has to negotiate on behalf. I must admit to

:11:28. > :11:31.deriving some satisfaction from the fact my speech is touching such a

:11:32. > :11:37.raw nerve opposite. I would say to the members opposite that actions

:11:38. > :11:46.and rhetoric have consequences and these are the consequences of some,

:11:47. > :11:49.some of your actions. Madam Deputy Speaker, my right honourabld friend,

:11:50. > :11:54.the Member for Gordon, has often said that Scotland's problel is not

:11:55. > :11:57.immigration but emigration. We in Scotland would like to see

:11:58. > :12:01.immigration powers to be gr`nted to Scotland in recognition of the

:12:02. > :12:06.differing needs across the Tnited Kingdom and the fact that in

:12:07. > :12:11.Scotland, we require immigr`nts to help boost our economy and skills,

:12:12. > :12:16.particularly in remote areas. Madam Deputy Speaker, both Australia and

:12:17. > :12:20.Canada pursues subnational immigration policies that rdspond to

:12:21. > :12:23.the skills and expertise across the varying regions within their states.

:12:24. > :12:33.Now is the chance for the United Kingdom to do likewise but H shan't

:12:34. > :12:38.hold my breath. Madam Deputx Speaker, even the levers during

:12:39. > :12:44.their campaign, to be fair to them, many of them said that therd would

:12:45. > :12:51.be no change for EU citizens already resident in the UK. And, indeed

:12:52. > :12:54.speaking on Radio 4, the Honourable member for Birmingham Edgbaston who

:12:55. > :12:57.co-chaired the campaign to leave said, I think it would be good for

:12:58. > :13:01.the British Government to t`ke the initiative to say that we whll

:13:02. > :13:05.protect EU citizens rights `nd expect the same for EU citizens that

:13:06. > :13:09.are British citizens and thd rest of the EU to expect the same. She said,

:13:10. > :13:16.one of the duties of politicians is to be humane and when we de`l with

:13:17. > :13:21.people's lives, she said, wd need to show we are open, a welcoming

:13:22. > :13:23.country that has simply dechded to leave a political institution called

:13:24. > :13:28.the European Union. That dods not mean we are ignoring people's

:13:29. > :13:31.rights. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is not often in recent months that I

:13:32. > :13:35.have found myself in agreemdnt with the honourable member for Edgbaston

:13:36. > :13:38.but on this occasion, she is right. And the British Government does the

:13:39. > :13:43.right thing and take the inhtiative and says it will protect EU citizens

:13:44. > :13:49.rights, it could help for -, hope for in return a reciprocal jester

:13:50. > :13:54.for the British citizens abroad It is a question of basic humanity

:13:55. > :14:00.Human beings should not be tsed as bargaining counters. To conclude, I

:14:01. > :14:03.don't believe that this failure to reassure the EU nationals lhving in

:14:04. > :14:10.the United Kingdom represents the best traditions of these islands.

:14:11. > :14:16.Much of what underlies it and the rising hate crime is misinformation

:14:17. > :14:21.put about during the leave campaign and a failure of leadership by the

:14:22. > :14:25.previous Prime Minister and many in the main campaign, to artictlate the

:14:26. > :14:29.truth about the benefits th`t migration and EU migration bring to

:14:30. > :14:32.the United Kingdom and sadlx that failure of leadership is behng

:14:33. > :14:38.perpetuated by this new govdrnment, as it spins rudderless in the

:14:39. > :14:42.tailwind of Brexit. Now is the time to put things right. So tod`y the

:14:43. > :14:46.Scottish National party with the support of others for which we are

:14:47. > :14:50.very grateful calls on the government to provide a cast-iron

:14:51. > :14:53.guarantee for EU citizens, have made the UK their home, to reject and to

:14:54. > :14:58.continue to work on tackling the rise of xenophobia which has been

:14:59. > :15:02.confirmed by the Home Officd for England and Wales, to recognise that

:15:03. > :15:07.the UK wide blanket approach to immigration policy is not working

:15:08. > :15:12.and disregards the national regional and demographic differences across

:15:13. > :15:17.the UK. Most of all, to reassure all of those that chooses to make

:15:18. > :15:21.Scotland and the UK the homd, that they are welcome to remain here And

:15:22. > :15:25.that the vital contributions are valued by all of us. Madam Deputy

:15:26. > :15:29.Speaker until that commitment is given, people are going to have the

:15:30. > :15:33.sort of worry and uncertainty that leads them to flock to events such

:15:34. > :15:37.as that organised by the First Minister in Edinburgh, and to write

:15:38. > :15:47.an e-mail to all of us on stch a regular basis. The question is as on

:15:48. > :15:52.the order paper, the ministdr Mr Robert Goodwill. Thank you very much

:15:53. > :15:55.Madam Deputy Speaker, there are many limits to my capabilities and one of

:15:56. > :16:00.them is the inability of behng in two places at the same time so can I

:16:01. > :16:04.apologise to the house if I have to dash off to the Scottish affairs

:16:05. > :16:08.select committee, but Munro will friend the member for Worcester will

:16:09. > :16:13.be winding this debate and passing on any comments which are dhrected

:16:14. > :16:19.particularly at me. I think my job this afternoon is to reassure the

:16:20. > :16:22.house about our aspirations, to protect the interests of EU citizens

:16:23. > :16:27.living in the UK and counter some of the scaremongering we have just

:16:28. > :16:31.heard. I was concerned, when I read the motion on the order papdr, and I

:16:32. > :16:36.thought there was a typographical error that the word should had been

:16:37. > :16:41.substituted for the word whdn. But the fact of the matter is as the

:16:42. > :16:45.Prime Minister said, Brexit means Brexit and we are determined to

:16:46. > :16:47.carry out the wishes of the British people in leaving the Europdan Union

:16:48. > :16:54.had the negotiations that whll take place will be to secure the best

:16:55. > :16:58.possible deal. As the Secretary of State leaving the EU, the government

:16:59. > :17:02.is determined, that Parliamdnt will be fully and properly engagdd in a

:17:03. > :17:06.discussion of how we make a success of Brexit, and therefore pldased

:17:07. > :17:10.that the house has the opportunity to debate this aspect of our future

:17:11. > :17:14.relationship with the Europdan Union. There are over 3 million

:17:15. > :17:18.European Union nationals living currently in the UK. They m`ke a

:17:19. > :17:22.vital contribution to important aspect of our economy and ptblic

:17:23. > :17:30.services, not least in the NHS and the care sector. By all means. I

:17:31. > :17:33.thank him for giving the hotse the figure of 3 million, however of

:17:34. > :17:36.course some of the EU nationals will have arrived without passports,

:17:37. > :17:39.those coming from Romania or Italy will have had travel documents in

:17:40. > :17:45.order to enter the United Khngdom, how does he, how is that thdy get a

:17:46. > :17:51.genuine figure for the housd given that he wouldn't know precisely how

:17:52. > :17:55.many people were here? That is certainly one of the aspects of this

:17:56. > :17:58.negotiation that we would nded to explore and indeed the security

:17:59. > :18:03.aspects of some of these tr`vel documents is not as robust `s those

:18:04. > :18:09.in the passports with the bty metric data that is so important to insure

:18:10. > :18:15.that the right people, the hdentity is clear when they are crossing

:18:16. > :18:19.borders. I'm not raising thd identity issue which is an hmportant

:18:20. > :18:23.and separate issue, it is that when Helu National come here as `

:18:24. > :18:27.remaining or an Italian, with a travel document instead of `

:18:28. > :18:33.passport, it is not stamped. EU citizens don't get a stamp, is he

:18:34. > :18:35.basing 3 million on those who have acquired national insurance numbers,

:18:36. > :18:40.work or is it based on some other data, that is what I want to know?

:18:41. > :18:45.Not the security issue. He's absolutely right, the figurd 3

:18:46. > :18:50.million can only be an estilate as exit checks have only been

:18:51. > :18:54.introduced, historically we were not aware of who had left and there are

:18:55. > :18:59.a number of ways we can do that including national insurancd numbers

:19:00. > :19:04.but there are other ways. I thank Mara will friend for giving way

:19:05. > :19:08.just a few moments ago he w`s thinking so warmly about thd immense

:19:09. > :19:11.contributions of foreign nationals in the UK, is he aware of anybody on

:19:12. > :19:14.these benches saying that ET citizens should leave this country

:19:15. > :19:20.or is it purely coming from the other side? Well I think I lade the

:19:21. > :19:25.point earlier, the only quote that I have seen when somebody has been

:19:26. > :19:30.threatening EU nationals, h`s been a quote in the Scotsman newsp`per

:19:31. > :19:35.dated the 14th of July 2014, in inverted commas where a specific

:19:36. > :19:38.threat was made, where a spdcific threat was made that if Scotland was

:19:39. > :19:41.not allowed to join the European Union has an independent cotntry

:19:42. > :19:46.then there would be a threat to the status of those people. If the

:19:47. > :19:49.members opposite are concerned about the accuracy of reports in the

:19:50. > :19:54.Scotsman newspaper, perhaps I could draw them to the official rdcord of

:19:55. > :20:00.the Scottish parliament health and sports committee dated the 27th of

:20:01. > :20:09.September 2016, quite recently. Well just let me make this point and then

:20:10. > :20:14.I will let him have his try. A report at a session of the health

:20:15. > :20:19.and sports committee, the C`binet Secretary for health said that in

:20:20. > :20:22.response to Brexit, "The Scottish Government was looking at including

:20:23. > :20:26.additional questions on the workforce survey to try to gather

:20:27. > :20:30.more information about whether people are you nationals or indeed

:20:31. > :20:36.where they come from more gdnerally. That would be helpful. " And indeed

:20:37. > :20:39.following from that, a Scottish Government official confirmdd that

:20:40. > :20:43.they were looking at adding additional questions to work for

:20:44. > :20:49.surveys as a matter of urgency. Who is using who as a political

:20:50. > :20:53.bargaining chip? I think workforce planning is a fantastic ide`, but on

:20:54. > :20:58.the quote from the Scotsman, I have the article here, it is a vdry small

:20:59. > :21:05.article, the point that the Deputy First Minister was making w`s that

:21:06. > :21:09.worse gotten to be pulled ott of the EU against its will then thd rights

:21:10. > :21:16.of citizens might be put at risk. Lo and behold, writes of EU citizens

:21:17. > :21:20.have been put at risk. The Linister could end this today. Can hd

:21:21. > :21:26.guarantee that the rights of EU citizens, will be protected. And

:21:27. > :21:37.will he stop and drink to the Ukip attitudes, using people as

:21:38. > :21:41.bargaining chips. Let me sed what I can do, my middle name means

:21:42. > :21:45.reasonable, it would be reasonable not to indulge in scaremongdring.

:21:46. > :21:47.Many of them watching this debate will be unnecessarily concerned

:21:48. > :21:52.about some of the rhetoric that we have just heard. The governlent has

:21:53. > :21:58.been clear that it wants to protect the status of EU nationals resident

:21:59. > :22:03.in the UK. As the Prime Minhster has made clear, the only circumstances

:22:04. > :22:07.in which that would not be possible, are, if British citizens, in other

:22:08. > :22:11.EU member states were not protected in return. The government h`s

:22:12. > :22:15.provided repeated assurances on this point and its position has not

:22:16. > :22:19.changed. I am sorry that thd SNP has not included this reassurance in

:22:20. > :22:24.their motion. Just let me m`ke a bit of progress if I may. I want to make

:22:25. > :22:32.this absolutely clear. The government has also been cldar that

:22:33. > :22:35.the time frame for resolving this issue is to address it as p`rt of a

:22:36. > :22:38.wider negotiation on the UK's exit from the EU to ensure the f`ir

:22:39. > :22:43.treatment of British citizens including those from Scotland living

:22:44. > :22:46.in other EU countries. Therd are over 1 million British citizens who

:22:47. > :22:50.have built their lives elsewhere in Europe, who accounted on our

:22:51. > :22:55.securing their future. We shmply want a fair deal for both ET

:22:56. > :22:58.nationals in the UK, and for British citizens in the EU. That is a

:22:59. > :23:03.sensible approach and that hs the approach that we will take. As the

:23:04. > :23:08.house is whether government is committed to invoking article 5 by

:23:09. > :23:16.the end of March 2017, once it has met clear objectives in the Daigo CH

:23:17. > :23:21.and is. It is becoming incrdasingly baffling to meet, either st`nd the

:23:22. > :23:26.ministers proposing to ask ts to vote against this motion. Btt what

:23:27. > :23:31.he just said confirms that the motion exactly coincides with the

:23:32. > :23:35.committed game of the government, which is to seek to insure that all

:23:36. > :23:40.those EU nationals living and working here now can be reassured

:23:41. > :23:47.about their status. If we ldt this motion go through, the chances some

:23:48. > :23:52.proposal coming from the continent that British National should be

:23:53. > :23:57.expelled is nil. And of course we might have too revisited but even

:23:58. > :24:00.then, we wouldn't want to t`ke reprisals against wholly innocent

:24:01. > :24:05.people contributing to our dconomy here. Shouldn't we get onto the next

:24:06. > :24:12.motion and stop spitting hahrs in this way when we all agreed the

:24:13. > :24:16.objective. The Right Honour`ble gentleman makes a perfectly

:24:17. > :24:22.reasonable point. The only problem the government has in this lotion is

:24:23. > :24:25.it does not go far enough, hn including, the rights of Brhtish

:24:26. > :24:30.citizens living in other EU memo states, which we would amount to be

:24:31. > :24:33.protected in return. It is impossible, for us to support this

:24:34. > :24:37.motion because that reassur`nce is not there at all. I fully appreciate

:24:38. > :24:41.the importance of giving certainty to EU citizens who have built a life

:24:42. > :24:45.in the UK. As I have alreadx said they should be reassured th`t we are

:24:46. > :24:49.working on the basis that wd want to protect these people status in UK

:24:50. > :24:56.law beyond the point that wd leave the EU. The honourable gentleman

:24:57. > :25:02.knows that I am very fond of him but I am genuinely, it is true, it is a

:25:03. > :25:08.guilty secret. I'm genuinelx wondering why he hasn't responded to

:25:09. > :25:10.his Honourable friends a molent ago. Why are we still debating this is

:25:11. > :25:16.the government quite clearlx agrees with this motion. I have made it

:25:17. > :25:20.crystal clear I hope that the reason this motion does not go far enough

:25:21. > :25:25.is that it does not extend the protections that they wish to have

:25:26. > :25:28.EU citizens here in the UK to British citizens, including Scottish

:25:29. > :25:32.citizens, people from Stranraer and Montrose from Edinburgh, though

:25:33. > :25:36.citizens living and working elsewhere in the EU, who do require

:25:37. > :25:40.reciprocal protection, that is all that we are saying and if they had

:25:41. > :25:43.put that on the face of thehr motion then we would have been mord than

:25:44. > :25:52.happy to support it but that is a fatal omission to their mothon. One

:25:53. > :25:57.of the reasons why think th`t he is right to be reasonable and cautious,

:25:58. > :26:00.as a former Immigration Minhster, one of the broken things thhs house

:26:01. > :26:04.must do in order to deliver certainty, is be very clear in the

:26:05. > :26:08.language we use. A lot of immigration matters go to court

:26:09. > :26:13.describing people who made their home here, it is not clear hf it is

:26:14. > :26:16.five years, ten years, five minutes. It also excludes the thousands of EU

:26:17. > :26:21.nationals who do fall within a group who I do want to leave the Tnited

:26:22. > :26:24.Kingdom and that is about as you nationals currently residing in her

:26:25. > :26:26.matched his prisons who havd committed criminal offences who

:26:27. > :26:31.abject the end of their sentence I want the government to be able to

:26:32. > :26:35.remove from the country. Thhs matter is complicated, it is not

:26:36. > :26:40.straightforward. I urge my friend to continue in the reasonable `nd

:26:41. > :26:43.careful way to get this right, to provide the certainty that hs

:26:44. > :26:49.necessary. It is not as simple as the Right Honourable and landlady

:26:50. > :26:52.makes out. My right honourable friend is absolutely right, this is

:26:53. > :26:56.a more complexes shoe than hs sometimes painted which is why we

:26:57. > :27:02.need to engage, in with that in mind. We intend to reach agreement

:27:03. > :27:06.on this issue as soon as possible but the fact remains that there

:27:07. > :27:09.needs to be an agreement and I strongly believe that it wotld be

:27:10. > :27:13.inappropriate to lay down unilateral positions and will we be

:27:14. > :27:16.irresponsible to do so. In the meantime the government has been

:27:17. > :27:20.clear on numerous occasions, that until the UK leaves the EU, there

:27:21. > :27:24.will be no changes in the circumstances of European n`tionals

:27:25. > :27:28.in the UK. They continue to have the same rights under EU law as they did

:27:29. > :27:33.before the referendum. At M`dam Deputy Speaker as I have sahd, this

:27:34. > :27:36.issue is also about British citizens living and working in other EU

:27:37. > :27:40.member states, exercising their treaty rights. The Prime Minister

:27:41. > :27:43.has been clear that 3-D is the Egyptians, we are seeking to secure

:27:44. > :27:47.the best deal for Britain, that you'll write include protecting the

:27:48. > :27:51.status of British citizens who are living, working and studying

:27:52. > :27:55.elsewhere in the EU, as I h`ve said, it is disappointing that thd motion

:27:56. > :27:58.makes no reference to these British citizens. That is why this

:27:59. > :28:02.government is not in a position to set up a definitive position now, it

:28:03. > :28:06.must be done following an agreement with the EU. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:28:07. > :28:09.those EU nationals who are worrying about their current status can have

:28:10. > :28:15.the government's complete reassurance that the right to enter,

:28:16. > :28:22.work on the study and live hn the UK remains unchanged. They continue to

:28:23. > :28:26.be welcome here in the UK. The I share his aspiration in wanting to

:28:27. > :28:29.protect the rights of UK citizens living elsewhere in the European

:28:30. > :28:34.Union. Can I say to him that the best way to achieve that ail would

:28:35. > :28:39.be to make a commitment to DU citizens living here, and thus,

:28:40. > :28:44.create the sort of atmosphere, in which positive negotiations and

:28:45. > :28:47.other matters might then take place. I am sure that the honourable

:28:48. > :28:51.gentleman would agree to me that this would be negotiations on both

:28:52. > :28:55.sides but that other complex issues such as ones my rod or moral friend

:28:56. > :28:59.has referred to which will need to be worked out such as immigration is

:29:00. > :29:00.a complexes shoe and there `re a number of areas that need to be

:29:01. > :29:11.worked out. The reassure you citizens lhving

:29:12. > :29:16.here, exercising the rights, making a contribution to agriculture, all

:29:17. > :29:20.the things we know they makd a contribution to, I hope thex can be

:29:21. > :29:25.reassured that we will seek to protect their status and thd status

:29:26. > :29:29.of UK citizens living and working elsewhere in the European Union The

:29:30. > :29:34.Prime Minister has made numdrous statements that there will be no

:29:35. > :29:37.immediate changes in the circumstances for EU nation`ls. In

:29:38. > :29:40.addition, I would like to draw the attention of a host to the

:29:41. > :29:46.Department for Education's recent confirmation that the EU sttdents

:29:47. > :29:51.applying for a place at an Dnglish university in the 2017-18 academic

:29:52. > :29:55.year will continue to be elhgible for student loans and grants and

:29:56. > :29:59.will be for the duration of their course. Given that it is in the

:30:00. > :30:03.interest of all interested parties to protect the rights of thdir

:30:04. > :30:08.citizens once the UK exits the EU, we are confident that EU and British

:30:09. > :30:12.citizens will be protected through reciprocal arrangements following

:30:13. > :30:15.discussions. As I have said, I want to be able to conclude this matter

:30:16. > :30:19.as quickly as possible once negotiations begin. However, there

:30:20. > :30:24.is a balance to be struck bdtween transparency and good negothating

:30:25. > :30:27.lattice. Any attempt to pre,empt future negotiations would rhsk

:30:28. > :30:32.undermining our ability to secure protection for the rights of British

:30:33. > :30:45.citizens living in the EU. That is why we are unable to support this

:30:46. > :30:48.motion. The honourable membdr for Scarborough and Whitby is now well

:30:49. > :30:52.established in his new role but I want to take this opportunity to

:30:53. > :30:55.welcome the honourable membdr for Worcester into his new post and I

:30:56. > :31:01.look forward to working with him and the rest of the team in the years

:31:02. > :31:06.ahead. I am grateful for thd SNP in bringing this issue back to the

:31:07. > :31:10.House and for the avoidance of any doubt, and if the Member for

:31:11. > :31:15.Kettering was still in his place, particularly for him, that we on

:31:16. > :31:21.this site want to make it clear that we accept the result of the

:31:22. > :31:24.referendum. We simply want to make sure that our departure frol the EU

:31:25. > :31:29.takes place on the best possible terms for the UK. As one of my

:31:30. > :31:34.colleagues said last week in the opposition day debate, the British

:31:35. > :31:42.people voted to come out, they did not vote to lose out. And providing

:31:43. > :31:46.guarantees to EU nationals now is part of securing the best ddal for

:31:47. > :31:49.the UK. That is why we made it to the topic of an opposition day

:31:50. > :31:55.debate just two weeks after the referendum and why we support the

:31:56. > :32:01.motion moved to date by the honourable member for Edinbtrgh

:32:02. > :32:05.West. Back in July, as now, it was clear that the government dhd not

:32:06. > :32:09.have a plan. No plan for wh`t to leave would look like and no plan

:32:10. > :32:14.for the 3 million EU nation`ls living, working and studying in our

:32:15. > :32:21.country. But one of the leading Leave campaign is during th`t debate

:32:22. > :32:25.rightly pushed for certaintx on the issue. He said, I would likd to put

:32:26. > :32:29.it on record what I think h`s been said already, that countless times

:32:30. > :32:33.the vote Leave campaign gavd exactly this reassurance to everybody from

:32:34. > :32:37.EU countries living and working here. And it is very disappointing

:32:38. > :32:42.that that should be called hnto question. I think it is absolutely

:32:43. > :32:46.right to issue the strongest possible reassurance to EU nationals

:32:47. > :32:53.in this country, not just for moral and Unitarian reasons but for very,

:32:54. > :32:58.very sound economic as well. They are welcome, they are necessary and

:32:59. > :33:03.they are a vital part of our society and I passionately support this

:33:04. > :33:08.motion. Credit where credit's June, The right honourable member for

:33:09. > :33:13.Oxbridge and south Ruislip, after making that contribution not only

:33:14. > :33:17.talk the talk, he walked thd walk. As did the overwhelming number of

:33:18. > :33:23.members in this House in voting for that motion to guarantee EU

:33:24. > :33:27.nationals the rights to rem`in here. I hope that now he is Foreign

:33:28. > :33:32.Secretary, he is making the case even more strongly. Because I guess

:33:33. > :33:39.in his new role at the Forehgn Office, he is learning the `rt of

:33:40. > :33:42.diplomacy. They may have sole way to go, I appreciate that the Prime

:33:43. > :33:49.Minister is not entirely convinced yet. But what he will know by now is

:33:50. > :33:53.that the way the government has turned EU nationals living here into

:33:54. > :33:56.bargaining chips for printed negotiations, or as the Secretary of

:33:57. > :34:03.State for international trade put it, one of our main cards, hs not

:34:04. > :34:07.only deeply unfair to those concerned, but is severely

:34:08. > :34:10.undermining our reputation with the very people with whom we want to be

:34:11. > :34:16.entering into negotiations next spring, not to mention the damage it

:34:17. > :34:21.does to our economy. Put silply it is not in the national interests. It

:34:22. > :34:25.is wrong for the government to suggest that we cannot guar`ntee the

:34:26. > :34:30.status of EU nationals here. Many of whom have been here for dec`des

:34:31. > :34:37.Without a reciprocal arrangdment for UK nationals abroad. The government

:34:38. > :34:40.is effectively asking peopld, doctors in our NHS, business owners

:34:41. > :34:46.and entrepreneurs, teachers in our schools, to put their lives on hold

:34:47. > :34:53.and wait until March 2019 to find out what their future is. Btt many

:34:54. > :35:00.were uncertainty, for themsdlves and their families. I will give way I

:35:01. > :35:04.am grateful to him for giving way but the question then arises, what

:35:05. > :35:08.guarantees is he, would she, if you work in the government, givd to

:35:09. > :35:11.British citizens living in the EU, regarding your rights. What possible

:35:12. > :35:20.guarantees or safeguards cotld you give to the? -- give to thel. By

:35:21. > :35:23.giving guarantees to EU nathonals living in this country, we set the

:35:24. > :35:27.marker and we give the best guarantees to our citizens living in

:35:28. > :35:36.the rest of the EU by making that stand now. I will give way.

:35:37. > :35:41.Following that through, would it not be better for the ministers to be

:35:42. > :35:44.out there negotiating, getthng the reciprocal rights, rather than

:35:45. > :35:51.having to remain at the dispatch box for these futile debates, stopping

:35:52. > :35:55.them getting on with the job? Well, I think it would be much better if

:35:56. > :35:58.the ministers didn't see EU nationals in this country as

:35:59. > :36:03.bargaining chips but if thex saw them as citizens contributing to our

:36:04. > :36:11.great economy and to our society, as the Foreign Secretary said hn the

:36:12. > :36:15.debate in July. On the Forehgn Secretary and diplomacy, can I ask a

:36:16. > :36:19.question which may test his? Does he agree with his party leader and

:36:20. > :36:23.presumably his party's policy that the Labour Party wants to continue

:36:24. > :36:27.having free movement, even `fter we have left of the European Union

:36:28. > :36:39.That is the position set out by his leader. Could you confirm if that

:36:40. > :36:45.remains his party's position. The Shadow Secretary of State m`de that

:36:46. > :36:49.very clear last week. The honourable member is misrepresenting L`bour's

:36:50. > :36:56.position. I don't know whether he was here for the debate but he might

:36:57. > :36:59.usefully read Hansard. On this side of the House we said that there

:37:00. > :37:07.would be adjustments to the arrangement and we believe hn

:37:08. > :37:10.reasonable management of migration. Can I congratulate him on hhs

:37:11. > :37:18.appointment to this new post. The opposition's position is very clear.

:37:19. > :37:21.It is the common-sense position which is that it is a doubld

:37:22. > :37:25.guarantee. We want to see British designs keep their rights in the EU

:37:26. > :37:32.and we want to give EU citizens their rights to stay here. @nd now

:37:33. > :37:37.EU country has said they want British citizens to leave the EU.

:37:38. > :37:40.That is right, isn't it? I thank my my for his intervention and he is of

:37:41. > :37:46.course absolutely right. It is unfortunate that some comment by

:37:47. > :37:50.government ministers have ldft this issue on the table. Because

:37:51. > :37:52.reverting to the point I was making in terms of EU nationals wanting

:37:53. > :37:57.some certainty for themselvds and their families, if we do not offer

:37:58. > :38:05.it, many of them will only find that by leaving the UK. That is tnfair

:38:06. > :38:09.for them, but it is a loss to our country. On the side of the House we

:38:10. > :38:14.do not believe in cutting off our nose to spite our face. We want to

:38:15. > :38:17.see unilateral and immediatd action from the government to guar`ntee the

:38:18. > :38:24.status of EU nationals who contribute so much to our society

:38:25. > :38:27.and we do not believe, to bd clear, that that will undermine thd

:38:28. > :38:30.government's ability to sectre the status of EU nationals living in

:38:31. > :38:33.other EU countries because we believe that they, too, are an asset

:38:34. > :38:39.to the communities in which they have set up home. And if thd

:38:40. > :38:45.government position is not playing well with our partners abro`d, it is

:38:46. > :38:52.not going down well at home either, because polling conducted

:38:53. > :38:57.immediately after the referdndum shows that an overwhelming lajority

:38:58. > :39:02.of both leave and remain voters take the same view, that EU nationals

:39:03. > :39:07.should be allowed to remain. 84 of people including 77% of leave voters

:39:08. > :39:12.want existing EU nationals to stay and in a letter to the Sund`y

:39:13. > :39:19.Telegraph in July, which brought leave and remain migration watch and

:39:20. > :39:24.other groups together, callhng for guaranteed rights for existhng EU

:39:25. > :39:32.nationals, last week this h`s made it clear that simply repeathng

:39:33. > :39:36.Brexit means Brexit will not wash. It will not wash for this House and

:39:37. > :39:39.it will mark wash for peopld up and down the country. The uncertainty it

:39:40. > :39:44.is creating is having an impact on our economy, so we welcome the

:39:45. > :39:48.government's commitments to share its plans for Brexit with

:39:49. > :39:53.Parliament, albeit following pressure from both sides of the

:39:54. > :39:57.House. But there are issues cannot wait. And this is of them. People

:39:58. > :40:02.who have made their lives hdre deserve better. With holding rights

:40:03. > :40:07.from EU nationals until rights from UK nationals are guaranteed a broad

:40:08. > :40:12.sounds logical enough, until you look to what it means in pr`ctice.

:40:13. > :40:15.Decisions to invest or expand businesses scrapped because EU

:40:16. > :40:19.nationals do not want to waht until 2019 to find out if they ard

:40:20. > :40:25.welcome. Public services strained further as EU doctors, nursds uproot

:40:26. > :40:31.and move somewhere, but thex are welcome to plan for the futtre. And

:40:32. > :40:36.in the meantime, the status of UK nationals is no more secure since

:40:37. > :40:41.Brexit negotiations are ongoing In his statement to the House last

:40:42. > :40:46.week, the Secretary of Statd for exiting the European Union said and

:40:47. > :40:48.I caught: Five out of six mhgrants who are here either already have

:40:49. > :40:54.indefinite leave to remain or will have it by the time we depart the

:40:55. > :40:58.union. Leaving aside the arrogant assumption that EU nationals will

:40:59. > :41:02.just have to wait around and hope that they will be OK, rather than

:41:03. > :41:08.going somewhere where they know they are welcome, but will concern EU

:41:09. > :41:11.citizens who heard that statement is that indefinite leave to relain is

:41:12. > :41:19.not handed out automaticallx on the basis of length of residencx. It has

:41:20. > :41:24.to be applied for, and applxing for it is costly and onerous and there

:41:25. > :41:30.are no guarantees. So perhaps the Minister will be able to cl`rify, is

:41:31. > :41:33.that really what our offer hs to those people who are running our

:41:34. > :41:40.public services and our economy Stick around for two years `nd you

:41:41. > :41:44.might be able to take up thd opportunity for indefinite leave to

:41:45. > :41:51.remain? It is ugly not good enough for them, not good enough for our

:41:52. > :41:54.country,. We are grateful to the SNP for bringing this issue back to the

:41:55. > :42:01.House and would repeat the call we made in July and that this House

:42:02. > :42:03.endorsed, for the government to provide immediate clarity to EU

:42:04. > :42:10.nationals taking decisions `bout their future now. It will bd obvious

:42:11. > :42:15.to the House that we have lhmited time this afternoon. And th`t a

:42:16. > :42:22.great many people wish to speak So I will impose an initial tile-limit

:42:23. > :42:27.of eight minutes, with the proviso that that might well have to be

:42:28. > :42:32.reduced. We will start with eight minutes and Mr James Cleverly. Madam

:42:33. > :42:42.Deputy Speaker, thank you, H will endeavour to keep my comments pithy.

:42:43. > :42:51.Firstly, and I don't have a lisp, so I would like to thank firstly the

:42:52. > :42:54.Iraq opposite for being so H'm willing to take interventions from

:42:55. > :43:01.my side of the chamber during her speech, because so many of the

:43:02. > :43:06.points that I had scribbled down in my speech were actually being

:43:07. > :43:14.brought up by colleagues th`t I would have literally nothing left to

:43:15. > :43:22.say. But the number of points that I would be making, I started writing

:43:23. > :43:25.this speech, and I will read directly from what I wrote. I will

:43:26. > :43:32.assure that this motion is driven by genuine concern rather than a desire

:43:33. > :43:35.to play party politics. That is what I wrote and unfortunately, H would

:43:36. > :43:42.have to say to the honourable lady that through her speech I sounded

:43:43. > :43:45.less and less easy to maint`in a position because over and over again

:43:46. > :43:54.I saw examples of this very important issue being used `s a

:43:55. > :44:02.Trojan horse to simply cast some very, very unpalatable accusations

:44:03. > :44:05.at my party. And the honour`ble lady says, from a secondary position

:44:06. > :44:08.look in the mirror. I do look in the mirror every morning when I shave

:44:09. > :44:16.and I see a black face lookhng back at me. And I have to say th`t when

:44:17. > :44:20.honourable members start accusing my benches of being xenophobic, I look

:44:21. > :44:30.at a number of my colleagues and I would ask that she reflects upon

:44:31. > :44:33.those comments before she starts accusing... Order, order. Wd are not

:44:34. > :44:36.having it that comments are to be reflected upon or discussed which

:44:37. > :44:39.have been made from a secondary position. If the honourable lady

:44:40. > :44:43.which is her comments to be noted, she should stand up and makd them.

:44:44. > :44:52.If not, she should not make them. James Cleverly.

:44:53. > :45:08.Not yet, we have all got lo`ds of time, so I will make progress. The

:45:09. > :45:14.most important point, and it was brought up on numerous occasions, by

:45:15. > :45:18.my friends and colleagues on these benches, was ignored and left

:45:19. > :45:27.unanswered on numerous occasions, by the proposal of the motion `nd those

:45:28. > :45:31.making supportive comments witches. Bridges citizens currently living in

:45:32. > :45:35.the EU have had no confirmation about their future status and I

:45:36. > :45:44.would remind members, that ht was not from the British side of the

:45:45. > :45:52.negotiating relationship, that we hear phrases like punishment, it is

:45:53. > :45:59.from the voices in the commhssion. From EU members, that we he`r that

:46:00. > :46:03.Britain needs to be punished. And it is, I have yet and I spent ` lot of

:46:04. > :46:13.time scanning the Internet, I have yet to find references from the EU,

:46:14. > :46:17.from the EU that we can expdct protection for British citizens as

:46:18. > :46:21.part of these negotiations. I will give way to the honourable Lady The

:46:22. > :46:24.honourable gentleman cast an aspersion that members of the

:46:25. > :46:29.commission are threatening citizens in Europe, has he actually seen

:46:30. > :46:34.that, or read that and heard that, because that is not the casd, that

:46:35. > :46:39.anyone else has heard. We started it, we voted to leave and therefore

:46:40. > :46:45.we are the ones who had to start the solutions. I simply make thd point,

:46:46. > :46:49.that no one from the governlent benches, none of the negoti`ting

:46:50. > :46:55.people we put forward have been using phrases like punishment. This

:46:56. > :46:58.is a decision may by the Brhtish people, this is a decision-laking by

:46:59. > :47:03.the British people and we should respect that decision and wd should

:47:04. > :47:08.enter these negotiations as has been said, to be fair on both sides of

:47:09. > :47:13.the house, with a desire to get the best outcome, both for the British

:47:14. > :47:18.people, and four-hour friends and colleagues in the European Tnion.

:47:19. > :47:23.And for British people living in the European Union and four EU national

:47:24. > :47:28.is living in Britain. My desired outcome, our collective deshred

:47:29. > :47:31.outcome, is to come out of this negotiating period with a

:47:32. > :47:38.relationship that works for both the EU, and for us, and all people both

:47:39. > :47:47.in the EU, and in the UK. There are, an estimated 1.2 million Brhtish

:47:48. > :47:54.nationals, living in the EU. And their status, at the moment, has a?

:47:55. > :47:58.Over it. And yet, we heard nothing despite numerous opportunithes, we

:47:59. > :48:04.heard nothing from the SNP benches or the Labour benches saying that

:48:05. > :48:10.any effort has been made to secure the status of British nationals

:48:11. > :48:17.living in the EU. And my frhend and colleague, left the chamber now But

:48:18. > :48:23.he was right to make the pohnt, that the British government's first

:48:24. > :48:32.responsibility, is to the British people. And while there is `? Over

:48:33. > :48:38.the status of British nationals living in the EU, unfortunately it

:48:39. > :48:43.is not legitimate, for us to say, Lee unilaterally, that we are going

:48:44. > :48:46.to secure the rights of EU nationals. And again from a

:48:47. > :48:51.sedentary position the Honotrable lady opposite says humans as

:48:52. > :48:56.bargaining chips, and she's accusing this side of a house of doing that

:48:57. > :49:01.but once again fails to use the same phraseology when talking about the

:49:02. > :49:06.people negotiating on the h`lf of the EU. What I want, what wd want,

:49:07. > :49:15.and it has been said from the dispatch box, on numerous occasions,

:49:16. > :49:19.we want to maintain as closdly as possible, the excellent

:49:20. > :49:24.relationship, that we have with EU nationals in the UK, we do value

:49:25. > :49:28.their commitment, as the son of a migrant, I'm short of time so I m

:49:29. > :49:33.afraid I have got to make progress. As the son of a migrant I absolutely

:49:34. > :49:40.recognise the incredible value of immigrants to the UK both from EU

:49:41. > :49:45.countries and more widely, `field. This government has on many, many

:49:46. > :49:52.occasions said that the valte of migrants will be recognised both now

:49:53. > :49:56.and moving forward. Briefly. Thank you very much, as the daughter of an

:49:57. > :50:00.immigrant, does it not give the honourable member cause for great

:50:01. > :50:04.concern that since the EU rdferendum there has been an exponenti`l rise

:50:05. > :50:08.in hate crime in England and Wales, and that is not the position in

:50:09. > :50:14.Scotland. What are the honotrable members views on that. I don't have

:50:15. > :50:21.either access to the detail all the time within my allocated spdech to

:50:22. > :50:23.answer fully, but I am more than happy, to have an extended

:50:24. > :50:29.discussion about the validity of those figures because with the best

:50:30. > :50:33.will in the world I find it hard to believe that there had been no

:50:34. > :50:36.racially motivated crimes north of the border, I find that statistic

:50:37. > :50:42.hard to believe but I will lake some progress. The honourable melber

:50:43. > :50:48.proposing the motion kept using this phrase, using people as bargaining

:50:49. > :50:54.chips. Fundamentally missing the point that everything we do in

:50:55. > :50:57.politics, is about people. Dvery policy position that we put forward

:50:58. > :51:02.is about people, every negotiating position that we take with DU is

:51:03. > :51:06.about people, Robert Hicks hs about people, it always has been `nd

:51:07. > :51:12.always will be. So every decision that we make, through this

:51:13. > :51:18.negotiation, we'll have an hmpact on people. And our attitude, otr

:51:19. > :51:23.collective attitude towards migration policies, yes do have an

:51:24. > :51:28.affect on people, but so do our policies with regard to trade, our

:51:29. > :51:32.policies with regard to agrhcultural policies, all of these things have a

:51:33. > :51:38.real effect on people. And to single out one particular element of our

:51:39. > :51:49.future negotiation to say this one, we should unilaterally, unilaterally

:51:50. > :51:55.close down, indicates in my mind, a naive at best and a cynical at worst

:51:56. > :52:00.attitude to our negotiating position. I want these negotiations

:52:01. > :52:07.to be successful for both Great Britain, and the EU. But th`t

:52:08. > :52:13.success will not be recognised, will not be possible if Great Brhtain

:52:14. > :52:17.keeps taking unilateral dechsions with regard to the negotiathng

:52:18. > :52:21.position. We have had it confirmed from the dispatch box that hf we

:52:22. > :52:26.were able to get resolution on this issue, from our EU partners, that

:52:27. > :52:31.this would be an issue that would go away immediately. And yet I hear

:52:32. > :52:38.nothing, I hear nothing frol our EU partners on this. As governlent

:52:39. > :52:43.needs to have the flexibility to negotiate, the best possibld deal,

:52:44. > :52:47.for the British people. And I would encourage the proposals of this

:52:48. > :52:51.motion, to put as much energy and passion into speaking to people that

:52:52. > :52:55.mainly have influence on thd continent, to clarify the position

:52:56. > :53:00.on British nationals, in thd EU And then this whole issue will be taken

:53:01. > :53:08.off the table, and we would have, the situation, that members on both

:53:09. > :53:10.sides of the house would want is a positive attitude, negotiathons

:53:11. > :53:16.moving forward with the ulthmate goal to give us as much clarity as

:53:17. > :53:20.much reassurance, as possible, to EU nationals living here, and `lso to

:53:21. > :53:31.British nationals living in the EU. And I call on people to rejdct this

:53:32. > :53:34.motion. Thank you very much Madam Deputy Speaker, the simple reason

:53:35. > :53:39.why we should make the move is that it is the UK that has voted to

:53:40. > :53:42.leave. It has been asked th`t has caused insecurity whether it is our

:53:43. > :53:47.citizens will EU nationals here and it is therefore incumbent on us to

:53:48. > :53:51.make the move to try and de`l with that, the idea that they ard not

:53:52. > :53:55.having problems. I have constituent struggling to get loans or

:53:56. > :53:59.mortgages, from businesses, for houses. It is ridiculous to say that

:54:00. > :54:03.they are not concerned. Thex are absolutely concerned and thd idea

:54:04. > :54:08.that they should spend two xears in limbo is frankly appalling.

:54:09. > :54:13.Obviously with my health background, we know that health and sochal care

:54:14. > :54:20.system, completely depends on EU nationals. We have got over 50, 00

:54:21. > :54:23.doctors and nurses, the reason that the minister here, was parading

:54:24. > :54:26.Shona Robertson for trying to collect the data in Scotland, is

:54:27. > :54:30.that we don't have data for Scotland. The 130,000 is for England

:54:31. > :54:35.because we never considered it at all relevant, where someone who was

:54:36. > :54:39.settled in Scotland came from. So we never asked that. Now we nedd to

:54:40. > :54:45.know how many people might have an issue, whether it is that they get

:54:46. > :54:49.thrown out or fed up with the insecurity and actually leave. The

:54:50. > :54:54.other thing is, going forward, how do we think we are going to attract

:54:55. > :55:02.more? One in ten medical jobs in England, RMT. -- are empty. We have

:55:03. > :55:05.massive row to gaps, how easy do we think it is to track EU doctors to

:55:06. > :55:09.fill that post in the coming years when the message that they get, is

:55:10. > :55:15.that they are not terribly welcome, and if they come, they might be

:55:16. > :55:18.asked to go home because thdy came, the honourable gentleman was not

:55:19. > :55:24.keen on intervention so I h`ve got to crack on. OK, briefly. I'm

:55:25. > :55:28.grateful to my honourable friend for giving way, she talks about the way

:55:29. > :55:32.that you nationals come herd in future, duchess also share `bout my

:55:33. > :55:36.concern, that this goes right back to the debate in this house on the

:55:37. > :55:40.bill itself, when we even froze them out of having a vote on the issue.

:55:41. > :55:47.The message is not good and they may decide to turn their back on

:55:48. > :55:51.Britain's. I think so much of this is not just about technicalhties, it

:55:52. > :55:55.is about the message that wd give outside, as my honourable friend

:55:56. > :55:59.said in the winding up of hdr speech, it is also about thd

:56:00. > :56:04.reputation of Britain, written has previously had a reputation, for

:56:05. > :56:07.fairness, look at the peopld who are second or third generation of

:56:08. > :56:12.immigrants. Who have made their home for generations in this country And

:56:13. > :56:17.now we say, you might not bd able to stay. Or you might not be able to

:56:18. > :56:24.come. The best way to securd the place of British nationals hn

:56:25. > :56:28.Europe, is for us, to be gr`cious. The honourable gentleman sahd what

:56:29. > :56:31.have we done to try and makd their position secure, I am on thd APPG

:56:32. > :56:35.for Germany had both meeting the ambassador here and when I visited

:56:36. > :56:39.Berlin, when we raised this, they were incredulous that we wotld even

:56:40. > :56:46.think that they would even `sk British nationals to go awax. They

:56:47. > :56:50.said, should we make a move, the places are moved to make because it

:56:51. > :56:56.is the UK that has created this situation. We can't survive without

:56:57. > :57:00.these people in the NHS, and particularly the 80,000 who work in

:57:01. > :57:05.social care. If they apply because they are anxious for British

:57:06. > :57:10.citizenship, it will cost them almost ?1500 per head of thdir

:57:11. > :57:15.family to do so. That is quhte a lot. When you may not even be

:57:16. > :57:21.earning the minimum wage. If their final position is that they might be

:57:22. > :57:25.treated the same as non-EEA citizens eventually, it will cost ?4000 per

:57:26. > :57:32.head, including the NHS surcharge which despite working in it they

:57:33. > :57:38.might hack to pay to access. To say that he's things are trivial, I

:57:39. > :57:42.think is naive. Now this is already having an impact in medical research

:57:43. > :57:48.and academia. When I was at the graduation of my local univdrsity

:57:49. > :57:51.just one week after Brexit, they had lost a senior research, comhng from

:57:52. > :57:56.mainland Europe, who was allost at the point stepping on boat. As he

:57:57. > :58:01.said, why would I move my children to an English-speaking school, why

:58:02. > :58:07.would I disrupt and move my family, when I might get sent home hn two

:58:08. > :58:12.years? So the idea this is having no effect and that people should just

:58:13. > :58:16.cling on, to soft reassurance is childish. We are the ones who need

:58:17. > :58:21.to make the first move, and we should make that move. It c`n be,

:58:22. > :58:26.that future agreements can be negotiated, but everyone settled

:58:27. > :58:30.here, on the 23rd of June or early, should have that right to rdmain.

:58:31. > :58:36.And we are the ones who shotld make that first move. Now with that APPG,

:58:37. > :58:42.we had a visit to Berlin and it was actually very interesting. @ couple

:58:43. > :58:45.of the points that I picked up, the second-in-command Angela Merkel was

:58:46. > :58:51.acted quite shocked that we used the term EU migrant. He said thdy would

:58:52. > :58:56.never use that term, to thel, migrant mean someone from ottside

:58:57. > :59:00.Europe, it would be like us being described as Scottish migrants, or

:59:01. > :59:04.Irish migrants within the British Isles. It is something that seems

:59:05. > :59:11.abhorrent. So he was quite shocked at that. I'm very grateful to her

:59:12. > :59:19.but this is precisely the ntb of the issue in the Brexit vote.

:59:20. > :59:25.You are you describe them as migrants. It is an exclusivd club.

:59:26. > :59:33.Many ethnic communities in Britain have led to this outburst. Frankly,

:59:34. > :59:36.it is not an immigration from Europe problem. If the honourable gentleman

:59:37. > :59:40.thinks that having stirred tp the anti-immigrant views that ldd to

:59:41. > :59:44.leave a mark he is going to say that we will not stick the EU but we will

:59:45. > :59:49.take more people from the rdst of the world, then he is deludhng

:59:50. > :59:52.himself. The thing is that one of the other things that came tp was

:59:53. > :59:57.members of our group saying that Europe has to change, free lovement

:59:58. > :00:01.so that we can stay in the single market. And where were we shtting at

:00:02. > :00:08.that moment? We were sitting in what had previously been east Berlin We

:00:09. > :00:14.need to understand that all Germans and East Europeans, free movement of

:00:15. > :00:18.people is something from thd heart. It is not a technical probldm. To

:00:19. > :00:25.them, they don't realise th`t we don't understand that. 27 ydars ago,

:00:26. > :00:29.there was a wall through Berlin The last person trying to get over it

:00:30. > :00:34.was shot just a few months before it came down. Angela Merkel cotld not

:00:35. > :00:40.travel west until she was 36 years old. In the debate we had in July I

:00:41. > :00:45.mentioned the fact that my husband is a GP who has worked in otr NHS,

:00:46. > :00:51.and I'm sorry am running out of time, for 30 years. At first he did

:00:52. > :00:55.not think this concerned hil because he thought that this would `ll

:00:56. > :01:01.disappear. But four months on, it has not disappeared. And thd problem

:01:02. > :01:09.is that these people are finding it terrible. It might be because the

:01:10. > :01:13.Minister in that debate said that of course anyone above five ye`rs can

:01:14. > :01:17.apply for right to remain. @nd when I mentioned this to my husb`nd, they

:01:18. > :01:26.said, he can definitely stax. My husband has keep kept a printout of

:01:27. > :01:33.Hansard in his wallet to prove he has a personal reassurance. -- my

:01:34. > :01:38.husband has kept. But we nedd to work out what public servicds they

:01:39. > :01:42.can access. And my husband, nearing retirement after 30 years in the

:01:43. > :01:46.NHS, is concerned that he mhght get to stay but he might have to pay for

:01:47. > :01:49.the health care he has been delivering for 30 years. And we are

:01:50. > :01:54.told that we are the scaremongers. The story of my husband's f`mily,

:01:55. > :01:57.his father was German and hhs mother was Polish. They met during the war

:01:58. > :02:01.and they were not allowed to marry. They had a child that was t`ken away

:02:02. > :02:08.from them. They were lifted and interrogated by the Gestapo. His

:02:09. > :02:12.father was imprisoned, his lother turned into a forced labourdr. Long

:02:13. > :02:17.before this debate arose, mx husband used to say, I cannot believe that

:02:18. > :02:21.in one generation I have bedn allowed to marry who are like,

:02:22. > :02:28.settle where I like and carry out the profession I chose. I c`n't

:02:29. > :02:37.believe that in one more generation we could lose those rights `nd take

:02:38. > :02:43.them away from our young people It is with a bit of sadness th`t I

:02:44. > :02:48.rise, because as a fellow Cdlt, I always look to some of my friends,

:02:49. > :02:54.honourable members in Scotl`nd, to support much of what you do where I

:02:55. > :02:59.can but this debate has brotght a lot of sadness to me. As a

:03:00. > :03:02.remainder, and I was a happx remain until the referendum. My

:03:03. > :03:07.constituency voted to remain, but now I am working with them to remain

:03:08. > :03:14.with the best bits of the Etropean Union, but most of them, and I

:03:15. > :03:18.especially are convinced th`t we are leaving and we get on with ht. I

:03:19. > :03:26.represent the University of the hospital of Wales in Cardiff, and we

:03:27. > :03:31.rely on people coming in from all over the world, not just thd

:03:32. > :03:35.European Union. I wonder if the honourable members have thotght

:03:36. > :03:45.about the language they are accusing in this debate. And the slang which

:03:46. > :03:49.is not coming from my bench, from our members. This debate today, I

:03:50. > :03:54.will make a bit of progress and then I will happily give way. Thhs debate

:03:55. > :04:00.today, and my right honourable friend made the point that we are

:04:01. > :04:03.making much of this, but my right honourable friend from the Forest of

:04:04. > :04:08.Dean and the honourable ladx that followed me said that peopld for

:04:09. > :04:12.June the 23rd should have the right to stay. That is not what the motion

:04:13. > :04:15.says. The motion says peopld who have made a home here and that is

:04:16. > :04:21.open to interpretation. My learned friend from the Forest of Ddan who

:04:22. > :04:26.spoke with experience as a former minister pointed out why th`t is a

:04:27. > :04:30.clumsy motion primarily, and that is why I am writing not to support it

:04:31. > :04:34.but to say that I am working, and I will quote government ministers

:04:35. > :04:40.after this about what they `re saying about EU nationals in my

:04:41. > :04:43.constituency in Wales, that they are welcome, how they make a terrific

:04:44. > :04:47.contribution to our economy and our communities and society. And we want

:04:48. > :04:51.to keep them there. But we `re rightfully trying to protect the

:04:52. > :05:02.interests of British people in the EU as well. As a Welsh MP, H would

:05:03. > :05:05.have hoped that you would h`ve supported me in that. But I am

:05:06. > :05:11.saddened to hear much of thd rhetoric I have heard during this

:05:12. > :05:14.debate. I will give way. I thank the honourable member forgiving way

:05:15. > :05:18.When the honourable member talks about language being used I would

:05:19. > :05:22.like to ask him, was he at the Tory Party conference? Because I will

:05:23. > :05:24.tell you that my wife is an EU national and she already felt a

:05:25. > :05:28.second-class citizen becausd she does not have a vote from the UK

:05:29. > :05:32.Government. When she listens to the Tory Party conference she s`id to

:05:33. > :05:37.me, I am no longer welcome hn the UK under that government. How do you

:05:38. > :05:42.enter that? I am delighted that you were listening to the Tory Party

:05:43. > :05:47.conference. I was at the conference with many EU nationals. Frol my

:05:48. > :05:52.constituency of Cardiff, and my team in this Parliament, I have DU

:05:53. > :05:56.nationals working for and whth me. And this is just absolute nonsense.

:05:57. > :06:02.It is scaremongering and it is terrible because the scaremongering

:06:03. > :06:07.is coming from the opposite benches and is deplorable in my opinion

:06:08. > :06:12.Bargaining chips? It is not. The notion about the referendum, what I

:06:13. > :06:16.fear that honourable members are trying to do on the oppositd benches

:06:17. > :06:19.is rerun arguments from the referendum. I was wish you during

:06:20. > :06:25.the referendum on these argtments but we lost. -- I was with xou. And

:06:26. > :06:31.I know the ambitions of the SNP are to ignore the referendums until you

:06:32. > :06:36.get it right, but as a Welsh member, I am afraid that we do not take that

:06:37. > :06:41.view. What we respect is thd will of the British people and now

:06:42. > :06:48.creating... Of course I will give way. Is the honourable gentleman

:06:49. > :06:51.aware that during the indepdndence referendum in Scotland, the leader

:06:52. > :06:55.of the Conservative Unionist party and the Unionist party of Scotland

:06:56. > :06:59.told the voters of Scotland that the only way they could guarantde their

:07:00. > :07:02.continued EU membership was to vote to remain part of the UK? And will

:07:03. > :07:09.he agree with me that that hs now a broken promise? Absolutely not. Ruth

:07:10. > :07:15.Davidson is a politician without parallel in Scotland. And I am

:07:16. > :07:20.incredibly proud that she ldads our party up there and I was up there in

:07:21. > :07:24.the independence referendum campaigning alongside her. But what

:07:25. > :07:28.I could happily do is bring up many quotes from the Spanish govdrnment

:07:29. > :07:31.echoing that point about Scottish membership of the European Tnion.

:07:32. > :07:37.But that will add nothing to my constituents, much as this debate

:07:38. > :07:39.will add nothing to the people in my constituency, the EU nation`ls

:07:40. > :07:43.seeking leadership from this place and certainty from this place. You

:07:44. > :07:48.are hearing it from this government, not from members across this House.

:07:49. > :07:52.They want to use this as a political football, which is deplorable. But

:07:53. > :07:59.if I can come back to some of the points. Perhaps at this juncture I

:08:00. > :08:03.can quote some of the government's members. If we look at the Secretary

:08:04. > :08:09.of State for Brexit, we alw`ys welcome those with skills to make

:08:10. > :08:13.our nation better still. If we are to win in a global marketpl`ce, we

:08:14. > :08:21.must win the global battle for talent. How more welcoming can you

:08:22. > :08:30.be to EU nationals and the world than that? I want to reduce net

:08:31. > :08:34.migration while ensuring to attract the brightest and the best. That is

:08:35. > :08:37.what my constituents have ptt me here to do and that is the

:08:38. > :08:41.government I am supporting. I am delighted. If we look at thd pro

:08:42. > :08:47.Minister in terms of talking about the existing workers legal rights,

:08:48. > :08:54.she said, and let me be absolutely clear, existing workers' rights will

:08:55. > :08:59.continue to be guaranteed in law and will continue to be so as I am Prime

:09:00. > :09:02.Minister. And I can assure the House that she will continue to bd Prime

:09:03. > :09:06.Minister of this country for many years and those rights will be

:09:07. > :09:14.guaranteed. I want to go to the heart of this. The economic

:09:15. > :09:21.secretary made a speech, if I can find it, and he said innocence that

:09:22. > :09:25.as we negotiate this, those that are currently here, as long as we can

:09:26. > :09:29.get that comparable relationship with the EU nations, that there is

:09:30. > :09:33.no question, no question th`t EU nationals that are already here

:09:34. > :09:36.working would be able to st`y. But the nub of the point is makhng sure

:09:37. > :09:43.that we have that reciprocal arrangement with our EU neighbours.

:09:44. > :09:51.Madame deputy speaker, of course I will give way. I am grateful to my

:09:52. > :09:54.Welsh colleague. He talks frequently about all of the statements from the

:09:55. > :09:57.pro Minister and the economhc secretary and about people working

:09:58. > :10:01.in this country. What do yot say to my constituents who are pensioners,

:10:02. > :10:05.EU nationals living in this country, who have not had the reassurance

:10:06. > :10:08.from the Prime Minister? He keeps talking about the brightest and the

:10:09. > :10:12.best and I'm sure everyone welcomes those people being and workhng in

:10:13. > :10:14.this country but I am not scaremongering. My constitudnts have

:10:15. > :10:18.not had that reassurance from the front bench at any point, that if

:10:19. > :10:23.they are retired and living here, that they have the right to remain.

:10:24. > :10:27.I personally want them to h`ppily remain, spending their monex in our

:10:28. > :10:30.economy. But what about the British pensioners in Spain spending their

:10:31. > :10:35.money in the Spanish economx? This is the point. It needs to bd a

:10:36. > :10:45.reciprocal arrangement for British pensioners. That is my very point.

:10:46. > :10:51.But I think I want to draw ly remarks to a conclusion by saying

:10:52. > :11:07.that it has been a sad debate for me. As a remainder, and now a

:11:08. > :11:10.committed Leaver, wanting to work constructively at getting the best

:11:11. > :11:14.deal for the European Union, whilst getting the best possible ddal for

:11:15. > :11:19.British citizens of that reside in the EU, be they pensioners, workers,

:11:20. > :11:22.at school or doing research, but it is clear to me that this whole issue

:11:23. > :11:31.is being hijacked by the opposition to provoke needless outrage. And it

:11:32. > :11:37.does nobody any help. I hopd that the speakers after me will try and

:11:38. > :11:43.change the tone and help my constituents of Cardiff. Th`nk you

:11:44. > :11:49.very much. It is a pleasure to support such a consistent

:11:50. > :11:57.politician. A remainder one day and then a Leaver the next. But I think

:11:58. > :12:01.he makes a very strong case for the guarantee for EU citizens to remain

:12:02. > :12:05.in this country. The diffictlty is that all of those amazing qtotes

:12:06. > :12:10.that he has gathered, which the honourable member for Braintree in

:12:11. > :12:14.his address shopping was not able to give us, is actually not worth it

:12:15. > :12:19.unless it is spoken from thd dispatch box. Because I think he is

:12:20. > :12:22.right. Government ministers and others have all talked about the

:12:23. > :12:26.contribution that has been lade by EU nationals but at the end of the

:12:27. > :12:34.day, it is for the government to make that statement here in this

:12:35. > :12:37.House. I want to congratulate the honourable lady for Edinburgh South

:12:38. > :12:42.West on a powerful, eloquent and clear speech. In fact all she has

:12:43. > :12:46.sought for in this debate is clarity. And all we have sedn from

:12:47. > :12:51.the government ministers so far one has gone, leaving it to the Mfor

:12:52. > :12:55.Worcester to enter for the government and I congratulate him on

:12:56. > :13:01.his appointment to his post, we are left with this statement th`t it is

:13:02. > :13:05.all going to be all right on the night. -- leaving it to the Minister

:13:06. > :13:11.for Worcester. But we cannot see it in the House of Commons. Thd points

:13:12. > :13:15.made by all members of this House is that clarity is extremely ilportant

:13:16. > :13:18.and if we have clarity, there is no need for the opposition to keep

:13:19. > :13:22.bringing back this debate to the House every two weeks or so. Because

:13:23. > :13:28.it will be very clear where we stand. There is no question that any

:13:29. > :13:33.EU head of government has s`id two hour per Minister, publicly or

:13:34. > :13:39.privately because if it was private, it would be public by now, but those

:13:40. > :13:43.countries, and I was a formdr minister for Europe so I know that

:13:44. > :13:48.nothing in those summit meetings is actually kept private. The fact is

:13:49. > :13:53.that none of them have said that they want to remove British citizens

:13:54. > :13:57.from the EU. Actually, what we heard today is the double guarantde. There

:13:58. > :14:01.is no question from the Scottish National Party and from the official

:14:02. > :14:05.opposition that we would gu`rantee British citizens if we had the power

:14:06. > :14:11.to do so, the right to remahn in the EU. All we seek to do is to

:14:12. > :14:15.guarantee that those who ard resident in this country should be

:14:16. > :14:20.allowed to stay here. Certahnly I will give way.

:14:21. > :14:28.Does the right honourable gdntleman not recognising this to go shish and

:14:29. > :14:31.that we are the white queen, we have too make the first move and if that

:14:32. > :14:43.is gracious we invite a response that is gracious.

:14:44. > :14:57.the deal is this. That will clear the matter run up immediately.

:14:58. > :15:03.Because the problem we had `bout putting this into the negothations,

:15:04. > :15:06.he is the disparity of numbdrs. There is 1.2 million British

:15:07. > :15:10.citizens in the EU and 3 million people here. What we don't want as

:15:11. > :15:15.part of that negotiations, hs for people to say that we will have

:15:16. > :15:21.absolute parity of numbers. That is what worries me, the Ministdr nods

:15:22. > :15:26.his head, the will have the chance when he gets to wind up that there

:15:27. > :15:30.will be no question of us s`ying to EU countries, the other EU

:15:31. > :15:36.countries, that we will onlx allow 1.2 million to stay. That is why, it

:15:37. > :15:42.is far better to be very cldar, about the EU rights, the EU citizens

:15:43. > :15:46.rights now rather than wait until the end of negotiations. I think

:15:47. > :15:51.that there are three possible cut-off date, one is the date of the

:15:52. > :15:58.referendum, the 23rd of Jund, the other is the 31st of March `nd the

:15:59. > :16:02.third, is the 31st of March 20 9. I actually favour the date of the

:16:03. > :16:07.referendum, because it is absolutely clear, others may favour thd date

:16:08. > :16:12.that we actually leave the DU. But the point is, that we are m`king a

:16:13. > :16:19.mess of our immigration polhcy, if we keep negotiating in this way And

:16:20. > :16:21.I think what we need, espechally as immigration is concerned, hhs

:16:22. > :16:26.absolute clarity. The government is worried that if they waited until

:16:27. > :16:30.the 31st of March 2019, that there would be a spike of EU citizens

:16:31. > :16:36.coming into this country in order to secure the rights to stay hdre,

:16:37. > :16:40.before we exit. When the minister comes to wind up, I hope th`t he

:16:41. > :16:45.will give us the figures as to how many EU nationals have actu`lly come

:16:46. > :16:49.to Britain. In fact it seems that a lot of people are so concerned, that

:16:50. > :16:53.they are considering leaving our country rather than staying, because

:16:54. > :17:00.they simply do not know where they stand. The right Honourable member

:17:01. > :17:04.for Rushcliffe asked the SNP whether it was necessary to keep brhnging

:17:05. > :17:10.back this debate, when actu`lly it is all settled. Well I am stre it is

:17:11. > :17:14.settled in his mind and my lind but it is not actually settled

:17:15. > :17:18.government policy. And we c`n have settled government policy, we have

:17:19. > :17:21.just heard an excellent statement from the Immigration Ministdr that

:17:22. > :17:25.EU citizens who are studying in our country will be allowed to remain

:17:26. > :17:29.here and get the support th`t they have had in the past. If thd

:17:30. > :17:34.Minister can get up to the dispatch box and make it clear statelent of

:17:35. > :17:38.that, which of course will reassure EU nationals who are studying here,

:17:39. > :17:43.then it is quite simple for him to get up at the dispatch box `nd make

:17:44. > :17:49.exactly the same statement `bout EU nationals who are resident here and

:17:50. > :17:52.I don't think the fact, that the Scottish National party has added

:17:53. > :17:56.the word should in their motion should stop the government from

:17:57. > :18:02.supporting the motion because they had the opportunity to enter into

:18:03. > :18:06.negotiations with the SNP, `s we saw last week when they avoided another

:18:07. > :18:11.vote which everyone thought was going to happen. It didn't happen in

:18:12. > :18:17.the end because of the position taken by the government. If we are

:18:18. > :18:21.trying to ensure that the thereof EU nationals is put to one sidd and

:18:22. > :18:26.they are reassured then we can easily make the statements today. My

:18:27. > :18:30.final point, is ready about the former Immigration Minister, the

:18:31. > :18:36.member for the Forest of De`n. Who said in his intervention on the

:18:37. > :18:40.Immigration Minister that hd thought that's part of the negotiathons we

:18:41. > :18:45.would also consider the isste of EU nationals in our prisons. Now, I

:18:46. > :18:49.didn't realise that was going to be part of these negotiations, this is

:18:50. > :18:53.news to me because of coursd successive governments have been

:18:54. > :18:58.trying over the last ten ye`rs to send EU citizens back. They

:18:59. > :19:02.constitute 10% of the entird prison population, we have not been able to

:19:03. > :19:08.move them out now. Are we stggesting that as part of the deal for

:19:09. > :19:11.allowing you citizens to relain here, that we are going to put into

:19:12. > :19:19.the pot of negotiation, the question of EU citizens currently ard now

:19:20. > :19:21.prisons. I give way. We havd of course got an EU agreement whereby

:19:22. > :19:27.all EU governments agree th`t they will exchange prisoners, so at the

:19:28. > :19:31.moment the legal position allows that to happen. The problems that

:19:32. > :19:34.have stopped it happening are largely logistical and rathdr

:19:35. > :19:39.wrapped up in bureaucracy of the Interior Ministry is of different

:19:40. > :19:42.countries. But at the moment, we have reciprocal agreements, and

:19:43. > :19:47.everybody is bound, they ard all agreeing to accept their own

:19:48. > :19:49.national is, if they are returned as prisoners to other countries to

:19:50. > :19:55.complete their sentence in their own country. The Right Honourable

:19:56. > :19:58.gentleman is absolutely right and he probably negotiated those agreements

:19:59. > :20:02.when he was either Home Secretary warlord Chancellor. And therefore,

:20:03. > :20:07.there is no need to put that into the negotiations, there is of course

:20:08. > :20:13.a derogation, and the Polish situation will only become live

:20:14. > :20:17.again at the end of this ye`r. So I say to the minister, his first world

:20:18. > :20:22.serve job in the governed, he can make a hero of himself, for the

:20:23. > :20:25.government whips because thdy went need to keep on bringing back

:20:26. > :20:29.debates on the European Union and the rights of national is, he can be

:20:30. > :20:34.a hero in Worcester and he can be a hero as far as the EU is concerned,

:20:35. > :20:40.because I know rather like the member for Cardiff North, hd is a

:20:41. > :20:47.Remainer, but a committed Exeter as a result of the 23rd. All wd seek is

:20:48. > :20:53.clarity, let us be clear, nothing is put at risk, by accepting what the

:20:54. > :20:57.Honourable, the honourable `nd learn it lady for Edinburgh South West has

:20:58. > :21:02.said. Let us put it to bed otherwise he should be sure of this, this

:21:03. > :21:06.issue will be coming back and again and again had again. Finallx Madam

:21:07. > :21:11.Deputy Speaker, the summit hs tomorrow. And the Prime Minhster

:21:12. > :21:17.presumably since we are still members of the EU, will be back at

:21:18. > :21:20.summit meetings. If we needdd an opportunity, I know that sole

:21:21. > :21:26.members have thought that mdmbers of this how should begin negothations,

:21:27. > :21:29.which is something that is well above our pay grade, but tolorrow

:21:30. > :21:34.the Prime Minister is going to that EU summit. The will of the house can

:21:35. > :21:38.be expressed today, and the Prime Minister tomorrow, can begin the

:21:39. > :21:43.issue, the discussions on this particular issue. And I'm stre that

:21:44. > :21:52.she will get a very positivd reply from the rest of the EU leaders

:21:53. > :21:55.David Davis. Thank you Madal Deputy Speaker, a I echo other comlents

:21:56. > :21:59.about how disappointing it hs that the SNP have chosen to play a game

:22:00. > :22:02.of political football rather than discuss these issues in a sdrious

:22:03. > :22:05.fashion because there is though little in this motion that H would

:22:06. > :22:10.disagree with myself rather than the word should, I mean, the motion asks

:22:11. > :22:14.us to recognise the huge contribution has been made to this

:22:15. > :22:18.country by people from other EU countries, of course we recognise

:22:19. > :22:22.it, it has been echoed over and over again from this side of the house

:22:23. > :22:26.and inside the house and outside of the house why people in the remain

:22:27. > :22:30.camp and the leave camp. And people from other European Union n`tions

:22:31. > :22:34.have made an enormous contrhbution to the country. They are very

:22:35. > :22:43.welcome, they were welcome before, they are welcome now and thdy will

:22:44. > :22:51.be very welcome after the ET. Can I had this list, -- can I had to the

:22:52. > :22:57.list his wife. I'm very grateful to the honourable gentleman, I do

:22:58. > :23:00.declare an interest, my wifd is Hungarian, my children are dual

:23:01. > :23:04.passport holders and it is ` cliche of course but when I say th`t some

:23:05. > :23:08.of my closest friends are in Eastern Europe, I do share houses whth them.

:23:09. > :23:12.It is ludicrous to suggest that people involved in the leagte

:23:13. > :23:16.campaign as I was and there I set I was a leader of the league campaign

:23:17. > :23:20.in Wales have got some kind of xenophobic anti-EU agenda. But we

:23:21. > :23:23.should also be making clear that we welcome the contribution of

:23:24. > :23:28.professionals from other cotntries outside of the European union. I

:23:29. > :23:33.have dealt with many EU nathonals but also I have dealt with doctors

:23:34. > :23:37.from Egypt, businessmen frol India and nurses from the Philipphnes and

:23:38. > :23:41.these people are also making a huge contribution to our economy and

:23:42. > :23:45.these people from outside the EU nations are also very welcole and

:23:46. > :23:48.will continue to be very welcome. It is rather ridiculous to suggest that

:23:49. > :23:53.people from other EU states should be scared about what is going to

:23:54. > :23:56.happen when we leave Brexit when we already appreciate the contribution

:23:57. > :24:01.of so many people who are ctrrently outside the European Union. This is

:24:02. > :24:05.a government Madam Deputy Speaker which has put compassion at the

:24:06. > :24:08.heart of its policies, a government that is spending more money on

:24:09. > :24:12.foreign aid than any other government, than every other country

:24:13. > :24:16.in Europe. It is a government that has ring fenced NHS spending in

:24:17. > :24:19.England, something that the NHS have not done in Wales, it is a

:24:20. > :24:23.government that is dedicated to ironing out the inequality within

:24:24. > :24:27.the education sector. It is absolutely ludicrous in the extreme

:24:28. > :24:31.to suggest that anyone on any part of these benches would ever want to

:24:32. > :24:35.go around rounding up peopld from other EU nations and throwing them

:24:36. > :24:40.out. It is a fantasy that whll never, ever happen. I suppose I m

:24:41. > :24:45.just grateful for the opportunity to say that very clearly once `gain.

:24:46. > :24:51.Now there have been issues `bout it with hate crime, can I say once

:24:52. > :24:55.again from somebody who was heavily involved in this campaign, H

:24:56. > :25:00.unreservedly condemn any form of hate crime towards anyone, whether

:25:01. > :25:04.from EU nations or outside, because of their sexual orientation, colour

:25:05. > :25:07.of skin, religion or nation`lity. I and every single person I h`ve ever

:25:08. > :25:10.worked with on the league c`mpaign and every person I have been

:25:11. > :25:14.involved in with politics utterly condemns that sort of behavhour I

:25:15. > :25:17.do think we should not run `way with the idea that people from E`stern

:25:18. > :25:21.Europe and other European n`tions are walking around constantly being

:25:22. > :25:25.hassled. In my inexperience which is considerable that is simply not

:25:26. > :25:29.happening. I have been marrhed to 13 years to somebody who has moved from

:25:30. > :25:33.Eastern Europe who has never been a victim. I'm not suggesting ht

:25:34. > :25:40.doesn't happen but I do somdtimes think there is a tendency to over

:25:41. > :25:44.exaggerate. Does he accept the statistics produced by the Home

:25:45. > :25:48.Office, that hate crime has increased by 41% in England and

:25:49. > :25:53.Wales since the EU referendtm? Does he accept, those stats prodtced by

:25:54. > :25:56.his own government 's Home Office? Of course but those statisthcs have

:25:57. > :25:59.increased because the government are quite rightly said that thex are

:26:00. > :26:03.determined to stamp out the hate crime and they are looking to police

:26:04. > :26:06.forces, let me answer the qtestion and then I will give way. The Home

:26:07. > :26:10.Office have quite rightly s`id that they are determined to stamp out

:26:11. > :26:13.hate crime and they are expdcting police forces to come forward with

:26:14. > :26:17.figures and seek out examplds. We have also got the additional problem

:26:18. > :26:21.if you like, that social media sites like Twitter do make it easher for

:26:22. > :26:25.keyboard warriors to commit hate crimes, you only have to look at my

:26:26. > :26:30.feet a day to see that is the case. LAUGHTER

:26:31. > :26:34.I'm very interested by what the honourable gentleman is just saying,

:26:35. > :26:37.if think you have suggested that the Home Office change the basis on

:26:38. > :26:42.which they calculate hate crime in the UK, would he like to tell his

:26:43. > :26:48.source for that? Or perhaps the Minister can help later? I have not

:26:49. > :26:52.suggested that, the Home Office are determined to stamp out hatd crime,

:26:53. > :26:55.they have asked police forcds to be much more rigorous and they will be

:26:56. > :26:59.looking to use those figures to investigate it and quite right too.

:27:00. > :27:02.There is nothing wrong with that. What I do find concerning is that

:27:03. > :27:06.the honourable lady and othdrs seem to have try to have made correlation

:27:07. > :27:10.between hate crime and Brexht and the clear and worrying indication of

:27:11. > :27:13.what they are doing is to stggest that the 17.2 million peopld who

:27:14. > :27:17.quite legit you voted for Brexit are in some way responsible for hate

:27:18. > :27:21.crimes. That is an outrageots suggestion and I hope that the

:27:22. > :27:25.honourable lady, if I give way to her for the third time will take an

:27:26. > :27:28.opportunity to make it very clear, but those people who voted to leave

:27:29. > :27:31.the European Union were exercising their democratic right to do so and

:27:32. > :27:37.do not in any way support h`te crimes. The point on which H was

:27:38. > :27:44.going to ask him is this, how does he explain, the 40% increasd in hate

:27:45. > :27:49.crime in England and Wales, since the referendum if it is not down to

:27:50. > :27:53.the vote, to what does he attributed and how does he explain that there

:27:54. > :27:59.has been no such increase in Scotland, we would love to hear his

:28:00. > :28:02.wisdom on that? I'm not an dxpert on Scotland, I can tell the honourable

:28:03. > :28:06.lady, that the government are absolutely determined to st`mp out

:28:07. > :28:08.hate crime, and there are qtite rightly demanding that the police

:28:09. > :28:19.force will come forward with those figures and they are very glad that

:28:20. > :28:22.they have. The honourable l`dy, it is a conundrum that I faced 17 or 18

:28:23. > :28:25.years ago, when I was on thd losing side of the referendum, it was all

:28:26. > :28:28.going through, in a very sm`ll boat, and there were issues about the way

:28:29. > :28:31.in which the press had handled it and we sat down afterwards, those

:28:32. > :28:36.who were in the anti-campaign, we should challenge it, how dare they

:28:37. > :28:41.do this on the basis of vothng about one in four of the population. I was

:28:42. > :28:45.probably at that time, a little less old and wise than I am now, and I

:28:46. > :28:48.was probably all for fighting the campaign and free running the

:28:49. > :28:52.referendum, and I'm very gl`d that wiser heads within the Consdrvative

:28:53. > :28:56.Party prevails, and those in the anti-Welsh assembler campaign said

:28:57. > :29:00.hang on a minute, people have voted for this, maybe only one in four, it

:29:01. > :29:04.may be that we only lost out by a few thousand votes but the reality

:29:05. > :29:11.is people have voted for it. And we now need to let them get on for it.

:29:12. > :29:17.Dollars we have appointed Nhck Bourne, who became a very good

:29:18. > :29:22.friends, who decided that hd is going to get the Conservative Party

:29:23. > :29:27.involved to iron out the details. And what we have done as we have

:29:28. > :29:31.appointed Nick Braun. The rdst of the motion is absolutely fine. We

:29:32. > :29:35.recognise the contribution being made by EU migrants within the

:29:36. > :29:39.United Kingdom, and the govdrnment is doing everything it can to ensure

:29:40. > :29:44.that their rights are respected post-Brexit. The point of the

:29:45. > :29:47.government is doing at the loment to say that we have 3 million people

:29:48. > :29:52.here and we want to protect the rights and ensure their freddom to

:29:53. > :29:56.move around continues in evdry single way, but you are going to

:29:57. > :30:00.need to reciprocate. As somdone married to an EU immigrant lyself, I

:30:01. > :30:02.completely support what the government is doing and trust them

:30:03. > :30:08.to do the right thing. I will give way briefly. I will gently point out

:30:09. > :30:12.that this is a debate on thd EU and not a debate on Wales. It is

:30:13. > :30:16.absolutely the case that people who voted leave are not racist or

:30:17. > :30:21.xenophobic, but unfortunately what that thought has done is give

:30:22. > :30:24.authorisation to people who are to feel that actually know thex are in

:30:25. > :30:29.the majority, now they are emboldened and we have seen these

:30:30. > :30:33.incidents across the countrx. And everyone can absolutely condemn

:30:34. > :30:37.that. The honourable lady m`de a point early on about Berlin and the

:30:38. > :30:43.Berlin wall. Can I say how strongly I feel about that? I have vhsited

:30:44. > :30:47.the town were at the Berlin wall fell and you can see videos of

:30:48. > :30:53.people cutting through barbdd wire, people who went on holiday hn that

:30:54. > :30:55.summer of 1989 to Hungary, to slip through the wire and walk into

:30:56. > :31:00.Austria because they were told they would not get shot at for doing so.

:31:01. > :31:03.It was there that the Berlin wall began to fall and the socialist

:31:04. > :31:06.government in his Germany fhnally realise that their blinkered view of

:31:07. > :31:10.how people should live their lives was not going to prevail because

:31:11. > :31:13.people demand freedom. We are not in the business of erecting a wall as a

:31:14. > :31:18.result of Brexit, we are in the business of taking down a mtch less

:31:19. > :31:21.violent wall that exists around the European Union, and going ott into

:31:22. > :31:24.the world and giving people the freedom to trade and do bushness all

:31:25. > :31:28.over the world. That is what this is about but can I finish by s`ying how

:31:29. > :31:33.delighted I am that the honourable lady recognises the importance of

:31:34. > :31:37.the Berlin wall coming down. A defeat for socialism, because that

:31:38. > :31:41.is what it was. I hope she will join me in paying tribute to Ron`ld

:31:42. > :31:44.Reagan and Pope John Paul and also to Mrs Thatcher, who did so much to

:31:45. > :31:51.bring about the end of soci`lism in Eastern Europe. This has bedn such a

:31:52. > :31:55.lively and excellent debate with so many interventions, speeches have

:31:56. > :32:01.gone way over the eight minttes so I am afraid I have to reducd the

:32:02. > :32:07.official time-limit to six linutes. But I'm sure there will still be

:32:08. > :32:13.lively interventions. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I commend

:32:14. > :32:22.the words of my learned fridnd from Edinburgh South West when she laid

:32:23. > :32:26.out the case about why it is important to give assurances to

:32:27. > :32:29.everyone across the UK. It hs more important in Scotland, parthcularly

:32:30. > :32:31.the Highlands, given the history of the Highlands where we have

:32:32. > :32:38.struggled over many centurids and years to retain our populathon. Our

:32:39. > :32:44.issue is one of immigration, being able to retain young people, to make

:32:45. > :32:48.it a place where people will stay. -- our issue is one of emigration.

:32:49. > :32:53.And we have done great work over the past decade to turn around `

:32:54. > :32:59.situation where people are leaving. As the Highland Council put it, I

:33:00. > :33:01.will quote to make things: @n area at risk of the population ndeds to

:33:02. > :33:06.welcome those who want to m`ke it their home. I am also particularly

:33:07. > :33:11.proud as a former leader of the Highland Council that they put

:33:12. > :33:15.forward the statement in thdir report: Highlanders have always

:33:16. > :33:20.warmly welcomed people from other countries who choose to livd and

:33:21. > :33:23.work in our area and it will be important at this time to provide

:33:24. > :33:29.reassurance to EU nationals that this welcome continues and that we

:33:30. > :33:33.value their contribution to Highland life. The Highland Council lade this

:33:34. > :33:41.report and put out their st`tement as a cross-party, all-party need to

:33:42. > :33:47.reassure people without scaremongering and I wholehdartedly

:33:48. > :33:51.welcome and agree with that. I would like to give the House some language

:33:52. > :33:54.since this has been mentiondd. When we talk about the welcome pdople

:33:55. > :33:57.have in Scotland, when they talk about the welcome that people have

:33:58. > :34:05.in the Highlands, let me be absolutely clear. Welcome mdans

:34:06. > :34:09.welcome. I had a surgery recently where a French national camd to see

:34:10. > :34:15.me. He had been living in otr area for 30 years and spoke with a Scots

:34:16. > :34:22.French accent. This gentlem`n was concerned and have worried that he

:34:23. > :34:29.might have to make changes. -- had worries. In our economy we depend on

:34:30. > :34:35.our economy for agriculture, fisheries, hospitality, card and the

:34:36. > :34:40.NHS. Our tourism industry, ht is vital to have EU nationals. One

:34:41. > :34:45.hotel owner locally told me that during a large part of the xear 40%

:34:46. > :34:52.of his employees are EU nathonals. We require these people. Thd new

:34:53. > :34:54.University of the Highlands and Islands depends on European

:34:55. > :35:00.involvement and young peopld as well. It is not just in the

:35:01. > :35:05.Highlands of Scotland that this is an issue. I would like to qtote from

:35:06. > :35:11.the tech UK Deputy CEO, Anthony Walker. The UK is one of thd leading

:35:12. > :35:15.digital economies in the world, and part of the reason is because the UK

:35:16. > :35:19.is able to attract the world's most talented individuals to fill jobs

:35:20. > :35:21.where the UK simply does not have the domestic skills base. M`king it

:35:22. > :35:25.harder for tech companies to bring in the best and brightest is not the

:35:26. > :35:30.solution and it will be a lose lose situation for everyone. Growth will

:35:31. > :35:34.slow as companies find it h`rder to recruit, meaning lower revenue for

:35:35. > :35:39.the Treasury. There is a warning there. I held a meeting in ly

:35:40. > :35:42.constituency for concerned DU nationals. It isn't about

:35:43. > :35:45.scaremongering, it is about reassuring people. That meeting was

:35:46. > :35:52.then quickly sold out, packdd to the rafters by people looking for some

:35:53. > :35:56.reassurance that they would be able to stay. I would like to usd my

:35:57. > :36:01.remaining time by quoting from a local woman of Polish extraction who

:36:02. > :36:10.is now a UK citizen. But shd is Polish. Mrs Duncan says, maxbe I can

:36:11. > :36:13.summarise some of the comments I got from people when I initiated a

:36:14. > :36:17.discussion on the Polish people in Inverness Facebook group ovdr the

:36:18. > :36:21.weekend. I did not find out what people think. I went to the Polish

:36:22. > :36:24.delicatessen to chat with pdople and without doubt, the common thing

:36:25. > :36:28.appearing in comments was uncertainty and confusion about

:36:29. > :36:32.their future. Also, a lack of trust in the assurances from the

:36:33. > :36:35.Westminster government. Gendrally people would like something more

:36:36. > :36:40.than just words. Being award that words have no value, and thdy might

:36:41. > :36:45.be used as pawns during negotiations. That is the word of an

:36:46. > :36:49.EU citizen, not us in this debate. She goes on to say, sadness and

:36:50. > :36:52.disappointment, and maybe also disbelief is another common

:36:53. > :36:58.sentiment. One of my French friends who came to Scotland is a student.

:36:59. > :37:01.15 years ago, and they have stayed ever since, but they commented on

:37:02. > :37:05.how sad it was to see how inward looking button has become when other

:37:06. > :37:10.countries have so much healthier communities where they are lore

:37:11. > :37:12.open. She goes on to say, some people consider returning to their

:37:13. > :37:17.countries, which is maybe what Theresa May has in mind, but some

:37:18. > :37:19.have nowhere to return to, `s they have bought houses here. Thdir

:37:20. > :37:27.children were born in this country and they went to Polish schools

:37:28. > :37:31.This is about reassuring thd people who live here, our friends `nd

:37:32. > :37:37.neighbours, the people in otr community who are vital to ht, vital

:37:38. > :37:41.to our future. I would urge the Minister to make a statement, and

:37:42. > :37:46.easy to make statement, to reassure and make that commitment th`t EU

:37:47. > :37:50.nationals will be given the right to remain, live, work year and be

:37:51. > :37:56.valued as part of our society. - work here. It is with some

:37:57. > :38:02.trepidation that I rise to speak in this debate because my constituency

:38:03. > :38:06.has seen proportionately more EU migration than any other in the

:38:07. > :38:16.country, drawn by the UK's relatively high minimum wagd. Tens

:38:17. > :38:21.of thousands come to Boston and went to share more generally in search of

:38:22. > :38:24.better lives on more money `nd greater prospects, drawn here by the

:38:25. > :38:27.rights of this debate is about. They may not be able to vote for us in

:38:28. > :38:33.this House but as I have sahd, we should all be keenly aware that

:38:34. > :38:37.those constituents are all our constituents, wherever they were

:38:38. > :38:40.born and what ever passport behold. In many cases of amenities `re home

:38:41. > :38:45.to model citizens, had pupils in schools in Boston are now from a

:38:46. > :38:51.diverse range of communities in a way that they were not in previous

:38:52. > :38:55.years. Children show in school that they treat children equally whatever

:38:56. > :39:01.their nationality. Immigrathon, wherever it is from, done wrong

:39:02. > :39:06.leads to talk of them and us but done properly, they become ts. Our

:39:07. > :39:10.agricultural colony relies on migrant labour from Eastern Europe

:39:11. > :39:14.as it relied in previous centuries on labour from the Midlands, Ireland

:39:15. > :39:17.or Portugal. We have a lower rate of empty shops than the nation`l

:39:18. > :39:21.average because new communities come not just to work in our fields but

:39:22. > :39:24.to set up firms and improve their lot. They come to do all th`t and

:39:25. > :39:32.they are able to do all that because of the right in this debate. Don

:39:33. > :39:35.Wright, the town benefits. H hope that Europe sees the benefit that

:39:36. > :39:40.British people bring to the continent, and grants them the right

:39:41. > :39:46.to stay after the UK leads the EU, and the UK can do likewise. In many

:39:47. > :39:49.ways, Boston and Skegness's continued economic growth ddpends on

:39:50. > :39:52.that reciprocity. And that basic equality seems to be

:39:53. > :39:56.uncontroversial. It should be straightforward that I would like to

:39:57. > :40:01.talk about why there are parts of this country, my own includdd, or we

:40:02. > :40:06.have got migration badly wrong and we have made debates like this too

:40:07. > :40:11.shrill, partisan and sometiles too difficult to attract genuind debate.

:40:12. > :40:15.With hindsight, the expansion of Europe too far poorer econolies than

:40:16. > :40:18.our own was inevitably going to drop large numbers of people to `reas

:40:19. > :40:21.where labour was abundant and often casual. The government of the day

:40:22. > :40:26.bungled the figures. We did not see changes coming and we failed to

:40:27. > :40:31.invest in local public servhces to keep pace with demand for schools,

:40:32. > :40:35.hospitals and housing and roads While Boston still needs thd bypass

:40:36. > :40:39.that has been on the drawing board for 100 years, the schools have

:40:40. > :40:43.caught up but the NHS has not. It raises tension, and causes debates

:40:44. > :40:47.like this. No longer requirdd to have a job before travelling to the

:40:48. > :40:50.UK, many people were tempted by inaccurate presentations of life

:40:51. > :40:54.here and find themselves dohng desperately hard work in frdezing

:40:55. > :40:58.fields before returning homd to a rented room that was really unfit

:40:59. > :41:03.for human habitation and in which they were only allowed to occupy a

:41:04. > :41:06.bed when it was their turn. Boston's work in tackling these rogud

:41:07. > :41:09.landlords has been rightly lauded in this House but migration has

:41:10. > :41:13.worsened the problem that the government should have foreseen The

:41:14. > :41:17.consequences of these housing conditions led to tensions, whether

:41:18. > :41:21.it is in terms of street drhnking and anti-social behaviour or violent

:41:22. > :41:26.crime. Some Bostonians asked what this adds to a historic town that

:41:27. > :41:30.was once a port second only to London. Fast forward to 2016 and

:41:31. > :41:36.Boston is wrongly called thd least integrated town in the country by

:41:37. > :41:42.Policy Exchange. That report is wrong because it does not mdasure

:41:43. > :41:45.recent work done on street drinking problems on the rogue landlords

:41:46. > :41:51.issue, on community integration and other areas. But it is talkhng about

:41:52. > :41:55.a real problem and some constituents have asked me, why should everyone

:41:56. > :41:59.be allowed to stay? The solttion to these issues is not to blindly

:42:00. > :42:04.pretend that every aspect of Boston or Britain is either better or worse

:42:05. > :42:08.for migration. There are a host of opportunities that we must seize and

:42:09. > :42:13.a host of nettles that we mtst grasp if we are ever to make thesd debates

:42:14. > :42:17.more sensible. We should depoliticise debates like this and

:42:18. > :42:23.treat people like people. I want to close by reading a few commdnts that

:42:24. > :42:26.were posted on my own Facebook wall. I went to see a superb new

:42:27. > :42:31.agricultural developments that will create around 100 new jobs.

:42:32. > :42:34.Underneath, some of my constituents wrote: We know who will be filling

:42:35. > :42:42.the labour requirements herd. We shall see how many locals gdt a job.

:42:43. > :42:46.They do not employ English. I got told when I went for a job `nd I did

:42:47. > :42:52.not even get an application form, so it will not be local people. When we

:42:53. > :42:56.get immigration wrong, we dhvide our country and we divide our towns and

:42:57. > :43:00.foster radical parties that bring out the worst in good peopld. We end

:43:01. > :43:05.up having debates like we'rd having today. There is no easy way to

:43:06. > :43:12.encourage integration, especially when largely young men work in my

:43:13. > :43:18.constituency constituency fdels and go out with little motivation in

:43:19. > :43:23.their leisure time to integrate But we should listen to the concerns if

:43:24. > :43:26.we are to sensibly conclude debates such as these, whether you `re a

:43:27. > :43:39.Briton in Spain or a Lithuanian in Boston. It has been 118 days since

:43:40. > :43:45.the EU referendum, 118 days of blunders, slap downs, infighting and

:43:46. > :43:52.conflicting statements. It hs a case of life imitating art, becatse this

:43:53. > :43:55.is more reminiscent of a plotline from the thick of it of any response

:43:56. > :43:59.to a challenging situation. It would be laughable if the consequdnces

:44:00. > :44:05.were not quite so serious. Ht might be 118 days of infighting btt it has

:44:06. > :44:08.also been 118 days whereby 3 million of our citizens do not know what

:44:09. > :44:16.their future holds for them. Since the 23rd of June, 3 million EU

:44:17. > :44:22.citizens who bring an estim`te 3.4 billion in national insurance

:44:23. > :44:26.contributions have been refdrred to as bargaining chips by Tory

:44:27. > :44:31.politicians. EU nationals are not bargaining chips or playing cards.

:44:32. > :44:34.They are wives, husbands, neighbours, co-workers, doctors

:44:35. > :44:37.nurses, teachers and friends. Instead of throwing fuel to the fire

:44:38. > :44:40.and making a worrying situation worse, this government should be

:44:41. > :44:42.doing all they can to provide assurance to the citizens in the UK

:44:43. > :45:08.that the future is secure. Many sectors of our world economy

:45:09. > :45:15.our world leading because of their expertise and skills. Our education

:45:16. > :45:18.and universities world leavhng in no small part due to the excellent

:45:19. > :45:23.level of teaching that EU confessionals provide. Madal Deputy

:45:24. > :45:30.Speaker, the Prime Minister 's short-sighted refusal to re`ssure EU

:45:31. > :45:36.National 's represents a sl`p in the face... To our society. Mad`m Deputy

:45:37. > :45:40.Speaker, the UK Government lay pretend that nothing will change

:45:41. > :45:45.that the fact is that everything has changed for EU National is following

:45:46. > :45:51.the Brexit vote. Many are thinking again about the country thex have

:45:52. > :45:57.invested so much time and effort into, one member of an association

:45:58. > :46:01.shared many of the concerns of the group with me, not only aftdr the

:46:02. > :46:05.result of the referendum but after some of the rhetoric since. She said

:46:06. > :46:09.she felt sheltered by living in Scotland with the different approach

:46:10. > :46:14.taken by the Scottish Government. It is not only the failure to give

:46:15. > :46:18.assurance which is problematic, the speeches at the Tory party

:46:19. > :46:23.conference also caused many EU National is too strongly consider

:46:24. > :46:27.their future. This seems to be a bleak vision of reducing migration

:46:28. > :46:34.to tens of thousands and seding Brexit as a way of achieving this.

:46:35. > :46:39.Refusing to recognise that 78% of EU National 's in this country are in

:46:40. > :46:49.work compared to around 40% of UK nationals.

:46:50. > :46:55.The Home Secretary also expressed a desire to ask companies to compile

:46:56. > :46:59.lists of foreign workers whhch should be used to, in her words

:47:00. > :47:04.name and shame those who employ large numbers of foreign workers. It

:47:05. > :47:08.should not be the companies who should be ashamed, it is thd Home

:47:09. > :47:13.Secretary for proposing a policy which even Ukip would say w`s going

:47:14. > :47:18.to file. Madam Deputy Speakdr, following that poisonous Brdxit

:47:19. > :47:22.campaign which has helped create violence in England and Walds and

:47:23. > :47:26.racially and religiously aggravated offences, a responsible govdrnment

:47:27. > :47:28.would be praising and thankhng EU National is the contribution they

:47:29. > :47:34.make and assuring them of their right to stay. This governmdnt has

:47:35. > :47:38.simply failed to do so. The contrast simply could not be sharper north of

:47:39. > :47:43.the border. Whereas the Prile Minister has remained silent and

:47:44. > :47:47.allowed her colleagues to ddscribe EU National is as bargaining chips

:47:48. > :47:52.Nicola Sturgeon has shown compassion and adopted a positive, inclusive

:47:53. > :47:56.approach and repeatedly reassured those EU National 's who have made

:47:57. > :48:00.Scotland their that Scotland is and will continue to be the homd.

:48:01. > :48:05.Economically, socially, culturally and morally, the UK Governmdnt

:48:06. > :48:14.should offer a cast iron gu`rantee to all those who have made the UK

:48:15. > :48:18.at. The business sector, yot National 's have all made

:48:19. > :48:22.contributions. Madam Deputy Speaker, Scotland voted to remain in the EU

:48:23. > :48:27.and reject the narrow polithcs of the UK Tory right-wing alli`nce

:48:28. > :48:35.Those votes and those voters need to be respected. Stop playing games,

:48:36. > :48:40.entered the xenophobia, and back this motion today and categorically

:48:41. > :48:46.state to EU National is that their future lies and their residdncy

:48:47. > :48:48.status will be protected. I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy

:48:49. > :48:54.Speaker, calling me to speak in this debate. I have listened to ht with

:48:55. > :48:57.considerable interest. I find it particularly interesting and

:48:58. > :49:02.slightly nauseating to hear from members of the Scottish Nathonalist

:49:03. > :49:08.party, or drape themselves hn the cloak of moral certainty as if to

:49:09. > :49:14.cast aspersions on our motivations, on our desire to foster good

:49:15. > :49:20.community relations. The Conservative government, and my

:49:21. > :49:24.constituents, who voted overwhelmingly to leave the European

:49:25. > :49:28.Union, are not racists. Can I repeat that for the benefit of the members

:49:29. > :49:36.opposite? It is not a racist campaign. This notion that somehow

:49:37. > :49:39.the Brexit was filled by xenophobia, and that the people in the SNP on

:49:40. > :49:46.the side of the angels, and that everyone else who opposes them,

:49:47. > :49:50.everyone who has ever argued against them is somehow in a benighted cave

:49:51. > :49:54.of their own, it's completely ridiculous. And it is embarrassing.

:49:55. > :49:59.It insults the intelligence of the people in this House to suggest that

:50:00. > :50:06.everyone else is xenophobic, and that they alone are the guardians...

:50:07. > :50:10.They may not have said and but everything they have ever s`id on

:50:11. > :50:16.this issue implies exactly the same thing. They seize the moral high

:50:17. > :50:20.ground, they proceeded to ldcture us, and I want to say on thhs side

:50:21. > :50:26.of the House, we've had enotgh of it. Now let me address the `ctual

:50:27. > :50:32.issue at hand. No one has stggested in this debate that migration is a

:50:33. > :50:36.bad thing in Britain. Many of the people who have spoken themselves,

:50:37. > :50:42.like myself, the Sans or grandchildren of immigrants. They

:50:43. > :50:46.are people who fully understand the benefits of migration to thhs

:50:47. > :50:51.country. The issue is simplx a narrow one about the negoti`tion,

:50:52. > :50:58.about the nature of the deal, if you like, going forward with thd EU And

:50:59. > :51:01.I think personally that it hs entirely illegitimate for

:51:02. > :51:06.government, head of negotiations, to say, as the government has done

:51:07. > :51:10.that our aim is to guaranted and secure the rights of EU Nathonal is

:51:11. > :51:14.in this country. That is wh`t the government has done and I think it

:51:15. > :51:18.is reasonable for them to h`ve done that. I think nobody in this House

:51:19. > :51:25.would suggest that was a bad thing. They have said that is the dnd. If

:51:26. > :51:29.it were to happen, that, for whatever reason, and I am not

:51:30. > :51:33.prejudging this in any way, if it were to happen that a foreign

:51:34. > :51:41.government, and EU government, Word to cast doubt or question the rights

:51:42. > :51:44.of British citizens working in that country, then of course

:51:45. > :51:51.circumstances would have ch`nged and we could well be in a different

:51:52. > :51:53.situation... I am happy to give way. Would the honourable gentlelan

:51:54. > :51:59.clarified that if there werd difficulties with the country, he is

:52:00. > :52:02.suggesting that the governmdnt would take reprisals? I am not saxing

:52:03. > :52:08.anything of the kind. But I am saying is, as my honourable friend,

:52:09. > :52:12.the Member for Braintree suggested, it is naive to give cast iron

:52:13. > :52:17.guarantees at this point. I suspect these guarantees will be given

:52:18. > :52:20.further along the line, I stspect, it is very likely that we whll reach

:52:21. > :52:26.a situation where everyone hs happy and that everyone can stay but at

:52:27. > :52:34.this moment in October 2016, I think it would be a little premattre,

:52:35. > :52:39.perhaps, yes, I'm happy to give way. In my area as in yours, fordign born

:52:40. > :52:44.people are welcome and we vdry much value their contribution. Wd want

:52:45. > :52:49.them to stay. But is my honourable friend aware that not a single EU

:52:50. > :52:53.head of state has given the unilateral and equivocal gu`rantee

:52:54. > :52:58.that the honourable members opposite asked for in this debate today? My

:52:59. > :53:03.honourable friend is exactlx right. I regret to say this but if you ve

:53:04. > :53:07.been following reports of what has happened, people like Jean-Claude

:53:08. > :53:11.Juncker and other people, their statements, there is an air of

:53:12. > :53:17.menace around. I'm not saying it is universally expresseds therd is the

:53:18. > :53:23.view that somehow the British people acted defiantly, or insolently

:53:24. > :53:29.towards the EU and we should be punished as a consequence of the

:53:30. > :53:34.vote that happened on June 23. I regret to say this but it is a fact.

:53:35. > :53:40.People in high positions in the EU have said this. Thank you. Briefly,

:53:41. > :53:46.in reinforcing the point my honourable friend has made, many of

:53:47. > :53:51.us, both in favour of Leave and Remain have sympathy with the

:53:52. > :53:59.motion, where we part company is the final six words, "Should thd UK

:54:00. > :54:03.leave the EU". Because Brexht means Brexit and that is pure mischief by

:54:04. > :54:11.the SNP. That is one another's will support the motion. - That hs why

:54:12. > :54:17.none of us will support the motion. I want to proceed with my rdmarks.

:54:18. > :54:24.Clearly we are all in a mood of goodwill and co-operation to

:54:25. > :54:28.migrants from the EU and also from outside the EU. The modern dconomy

:54:29. > :54:33.that we foster in Britain is dependent on a large degree of

:54:34. > :54:38.migration. We accept that. What we do not accept is the free movement

:54:39. > :54:41.of people unilaterally across the EU. Many people on this sitd to not

:54:42. > :54:46.think that is the right way to proceed. And I think at this stage

:54:47. > :54:50.before we've even entered into a negotiation I think it would be

:54:51. > :54:54.premature to give the cast hron guarantees which we all want to

:54:55. > :54:59.reach at the end, we all want to get to the end of the negotiation where

:55:00. > :55:03.we can give these guarantees but as long as the rights of British

:55:04. > :55:08.citizens in the EU have not been guaranteed it would be prem`ture for

:55:09. > :55:13.a British government to givd... I can hear the honourable member

:55:14. > :55:18.chuntering in a sedentary position! He spent many years in this House,

:55:19. > :55:26.he may intervene in the customary fashion if he wishes to do so I am

:55:27. > :55:30.willing to give way. The pohnt in the debate about the contrast

:55:31. > :55:36.between the 42% rise in hatd crime in England in the immediate

:55:37. > :55:39.aftermath of Brexit, and a 05% fall in similar statistics in Scotland,

:55:40. > :55:45.can the honourable gentleman explain that? I can't presume to talk about

:55:46. > :55:54.the earthly paradise known `s Scotland! I am not going to make any

:55:55. > :55:58.statements. But what is going on in Scotland, because I'm not in a

:55:59. > :56:05.position in terms of experthse to do so. What I do regret is this

:56:06. > :56:09.assumption that somehow the Brexit vote was driven by xenophobha and

:56:10. > :56:15.racism, and his party is absolved from that. I will allow him to

:56:16. > :56:23.intervene on this one occashon and then I want to Robert. If you

:56:24. > :56:27.remember during the campaign the Breaking Point poster, it w`s part

:56:28. > :56:30.of the campaign, it was there for people to see. Does he belidve that

:56:31. > :56:36.a poster like that with Nigdl Farage in front of it would be the sort of

:56:37. > :56:40.thing which might incite hate crime? For the record, I want to state

:56:41. > :56:44.briefly that I denounced th`t particular intervention frol Mr

:56:45. > :56:49.Farage. The last thing I want to say, briefly, is, we accept the

:56:50. > :56:54.benefits of migration, of course, we want to guarantee the rights of UK

:56:55. > :56:59.workers but today when the rights of British citizens in the EU have not

:57:00. > :57:01.been guaranteed this would be a premature time to give the

:57:02. > :57:10.guarantees that the members opposite seek. Thank you, Madam Deputy

:57:11. > :57:14.Speaker. Last night I found myself experiencing a strange sens`tion,

:57:15. > :57:18.one I have not experienced before because I began to read the motion

:57:19. > :57:23.put forward by the SNP partx. I found myself largely agreeing with

:57:24. > :57:29.that, until the last six words. Six was which said "Should the TK leave

:57:30. > :57:34.the EU..." I found they betrayed the real reason that this motion has

:57:35. > :57:39.been brought to this House today. Not primarily out of concern for EU

:57:40. > :57:44.National is living in the UK but in order to continue the referdndum

:57:45. > :57:49.debate. I think it is clear that, as this debate has gone on, th`t is

:57:50. > :57:54.what this has been about. I know it is tough for the SNP, having been on

:57:55. > :57:58.the wrong side of public ophnion three times in a row and thd

:57:59. > :58:03.referendum, you'd have thought by now that they would have le`rned the

:58:04. > :58:06.lesson, and yet they seem to be keen on even more referendums, I would

:58:07. > :58:11.have thought by now they wotld have learned their lesson. They tend to

:58:12. > :58:15.be on the wrong side of a referendum, it's time to give it up.

:58:16. > :58:19.But the fact is, we leaving the EU. The British people have madd a

:58:20. > :58:25.decision. They have given clear instructions to this place `nd we

:58:26. > :58:30.will be leaving the EU. There is no "Should", it is when we leave. As I

:58:31. > :58:36.say I largely agree with thd spirit of the motion apart from th`t part

:58:37. > :58:39.and maybe one other minor point that EU National zoo have made their home

:58:40. > :58:45.in this country, 3 million of them, largely here, contributing

:58:46. > :58:49.positively to our nation, working and paying taxes, are very luch

:58:50. > :58:56.welcome and we want them to stay. There is nobody on these benches who

:58:57. > :59:01.has suggested anything other than that we want those EU nationals to

:59:02. > :59:05.be able to remain here, to live to work, to contribute to our dconomy

:59:06. > :59:09.for as long as they wish to do so. No one has suggested otherwhse. I

:59:10. > :59:14.think it is disingenuous to suggest that there is any other mothvation

:59:15. > :59:21.on this side of the House other than that we want them to remain as long

:59:22. > :59:25.as possible. In my constitudncy and also in Cornwall, EU migrants make

:59:26. > :59:30.huge contribution to the economy, working in tourism, in bars and

:59:31. > :59:37.hotels, in agriculture, oftdn helping seasonally in bringhng the

:59:38. > :59:40.various excellent produce Cornwall produces and in processing our

:59:41. > :59:44.excellent seafood products. They play an absolutely crucial role to

:59:45. > :59:51.our society and we want thel to continue to be able to do so.

:59:52. > :00:01.A is a tension -- the government has made clear that that is thehr

:00:02. > :00:05.position but we should not lake a cast iron guarantee until that is

:00:06. > :00:09.reciprocated from other EU countries and we would be doing a disservice

:00:10. > :00:14.to the British citizens who live elsewhere should we do so. Let's

:00:15. > :00:17.remember our first responsibility is to British citizens and we should be

:00:18. > :00:24.looking out for their futurd and well-being just as much as `nyone

:00:25. > :00:29.else. It is right that we continue on that approach and seek those

:00:30. > :00:35.assurances. It has been pointed out by other members that those

:00:36. > :00:38.assurances have not yet been given. I am confident that once those

:00:39. > :00:42.assurances have been given, we will then reciprocate that and gtarantee

:00:43. > :00:48.the future of EU nationals who live and work here. One other pohnt from

:00:49. > :00:54.the way the motion is worded, it does say all EU citizens. I would

:00:55. > :00:58.make the point, as the membdr from the Forest of Dean who is no longer

:00:59. > :01:01.in the chamber made earlier in this debate, that there are some EU

:01:02. > :01:07.nationals that we probably do not wish to keep in this countrx,

:01:08. > :01:11.convicted criminals, those who have come and abuse the hospitalhty and

:01:12. > :01:14.welcome we have given them hn this country and broken our laws. It is

:01:15. > :01:20.right that once they have sdrved their sentence, we seek to return

:01:21. > :01:25.them to their country of orhgin That word, all, is I think to open.

:01:26. > :01:28.We do not want all EU citizdns to be able to remain and I will ghve way

:01:29. > :01:34.on that point. Can I clarifx that the various crooks settled on the

:01:35. > :01:38.Costa del Sol, you will be wanting to guarantee for them that they stay

:01:39. > :01:46.there. I would suggest that is a matter for the Spanish government to

:01:47. > :01:48.decide, if they wish to stax at the hospitality of the Spanish

:01:49. > :01:53.government, that is a matter for them but I think the position of

:01:54. > :01:57.this country is right. I do believe that much has been said on the

:01:58. > :02:03.benches opposite about the rhetoric stirring up uncertainty. But I would

:02:04. > :02:06.suggest that it is motions like this that create the uncertainty by

:02:07. > :02:10.raising the very issue. When the government has been absolutdly clear

:02:11. > :02:14.on its intention and desire for EU citizens to be able to remahn in

:02:15. > :02:18.this country, that by continuing this debate, and I will not give way

:02:19. > :02:23.again, but by continuing thhs debate, continuing to stir tp this

:02:24. > :02:25.uncertainty, we are actuallx creating uncertainty and

:02:26. > :02:30.perpetuating uncertainty. I believe it is right that the governlent

:02:31. > :02:33.holds this line that we continue to wait for assurances from other

:02:34. > :02:37.countries and once that is given, we will be happy to reciprocatd and

:02:38. > :02:44.guarantee the future of EU nationals and their right to stay in this

:02:45. > :02:48.country. For those reasons, as much as I agree of the spirit of the

:02:49. > :02:55.motion, I will not be able to support it later today. Thank you. I

:02:56. > :03:03.am grateful to be called in to follow my honourable friend is at --

:03:04. > :03:06.honourable friend's powerful speech. I agree with the first part of the

:03:07. > :03:13.motion. I recognise and appreciate the contributions which workers from

:03:14. > :03:17.the European Union have madd in this country and I support that

:03:18. > :03:23.particular provision. As many members from both sides of the house

:03:24. > :03:28.have identified, within thehr own constituencies there are kex

:03:29. > :03:33.businesses and public sector services that are vitally sdrved by

:03:34. > :03:40.EU workers. In my constituency, where we have a particularlx older

:03:41. > :03:45.portion of our population, none is more key than our care home sector.

:03:46. > :03:53.Without EU workers we would be in a difficult place. Of 35 care homes

:03:54. > :03:57.inspected, only nine were r`ted good and the rest were rated as requiring

:03:58. > :04:02.improvement or inadequate. Where would they be without these key

:04:03. > :04:06.workers from the EU? Indeed, I maintain that the government has

:04:07. > :04:09.actually given the economic base of the last six years, and has seen

:04:10. > :04:14.many of these workers come to Britain and make a great success of

:04:15. > :04:18.themselves. More jobs treatdd in the UK than in the whole of the EU put

:04:19. > :04:23.together during that time. These are individuals that have come here with

:04:24. > :04:28.great aspirations and a deshre to work, endeavour, and enterprise

:04:29. > :04:33.That is in their DNA and thd DNA of my party and the honourable friends

:04:34. > :04:43.that serve on these benches. In that sense, we certainly do not bleed

:04:44. > :04:46.Tony -- need any lectures on our support for EU citizens. But it is

:04:47. > :04:49.the second part of the motion that means I cannot support it. That is

:04:50. > :04:53.talking of the future. As h`s been pointed out by colleagues on these

:04:54. > :04:59.benches, there is a typo in the motion because it talks abott the

:05:00. > :05:05.UK, should it exit the UK, rather than when it exits the EU. H did not

:05:06. > :05:09.vote to leave the EU but in my view, now that the decision has bden made,

:05:10. > :05:13.we need to embrace the opportunity and get on with it. To the point I

:05:14. > :05:18.made previously, I find it frustrating when there are so many

:05:19. > :05:20.debates led forward in this House, talking about the pitfalls `nd then

:05:21. > :05:24.holding up the ministers from getting on with the job and getting

:05:25. > :05:29.it done. There is a certain sense of irony in my own position, and I see

:05:30. > :05:33.the honourable member opposhte chuckling away. I die, he w`s in

:05:34. > :05:38.Strasbourg last week working with our European partners, only to be

:05:39. > :05:42.brought back to the House to debate about Europe, when we could have

:05:43. > :05:45.actually been over in Europd making friends and building relations. That

:05:46. > :05:49.would have been a better usd of our time. During the referendum debate

:05:50. > :05:56.and visited 25 schools in the final week of the referendum and hn the

:05:57. > :05:59.last week of conference, I visited another ten. The questions from

:06:00. > :06:05.teachers and pupils about the right to remain consistently came up. My

:06:06. > :06:08.point was that in time, oncd this is settled, should we leave thd EU I

:06:09. > :06:14.imagine that the right to rdmain that would be honoured and H hope

:06:15. > :06:16.that would be the case. But it should also be pointed out that

:06:17. > :06:20.those who have been here for five years already have certain rights to

:06:21. > :06:24.remain. But the time we exited the EU, those that have been here

:06:25. > :06:27.relatively recently will have reached that five-year point as well

:06:28. > :06:33.so much of this debate is slightly false. Indeed, and of coursd I will

:06:34. > :06:35.give way. I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman rating that

:06:36. > :06:39.point because when I have constituents coming to my strgery is

:06:40. > :06:43.concerned and needing reasstrance, and I have 3000 Eastern Europeans in

:06:44. > :06:47.my constituency, I point out the point that he makes. Five ott of six

:06:48. > :06:53.EU nationals living in this country either will have the right or

:06:54. > :06:58.already do have the right to remain by the time we leave. 2.9 mhllion EU

:06:59. > :07:02.nationals living in the UK today have nothing to worry about

:07:03. > :07:08.whatsoever. I thank my honotrable friend for that point. Like I am, he

:07:09. > :07:12.is a wire and I'm not sure how many of the 1.2 million UK residdnts in

:07:13. > :07:16.the EU would actually have that same right. Therefore it makes it more

:07:17. > :07:21.imperative that we are supporting that 1.2 million people to dnsure

:07:22. > :07:28.they have the right to remahn. As he said, five out of six EU citizens

:07:29. > :07:31.over here have that right. But also, as my honourable friend has pointed

:07:32. > :07:37.out no-one on these benches, and it does not seem to have been debated

:07:38. > :07:43.at all, is calling for thesd rights to remain in the UK to be rdscinded.

:07:44. > :07:48.Nobody on the side of these benches is using the word bargaining chips.

:07:49. > :07:52.I point that out because I listened carefully to the honourable member

:07:53. > :07:56.for Paisley and Renfrewshird North's speech, using the word barg`ining

:07:57. > :08:00.chips about five times. It hs this kind of rhetoric, coming from the

:08:01. > :08:06.opposition side, and not from the side. I say that because it is this

:08:07. > :08:12.type of language which is c`using my constituents to come to me `nd ask

:08:13. > :08:15.what exactly is going on. I would ask opposition members to bd more

:08:16. > :08:23.responsible with a light whhch they are using, because it is not being

:08:24. > :08:27.used on this particular sidd. From my perspective, we must enstre that

:08:28. > :08:31.we serve the rights of thosd members from the EU working in the TK but we

:08:32. > :08:37.absolutely have to give equ`l priority to serving those mdmbers of

:08:38. > :08:41.the UK who are living within the UK. I hope that the opposition will

:08:42. > :08:45.start to talk that same language and even things up. With one minute

:08:46. > :08:50.remaining, can make the point in terms of cautioning against using

:08:51. > :08:56.the EU referendum result as a separate debate with respect to

:08:57. > :09:01.immigration. Whilst I recognise that 52% of the country voted to leave

:09:02. > :09:08.the EU, nowhere within that was there a definitive mandate to curb

:09:09. > :09:11.or control immigration. I know many, including colleagues on my own side

:09:12. > :09:15.of the bench will say that hmplicit in that was the debate about

:09:16. > :09:20.immigration but from my perspective, all we know is that 52% of the UK

:09:21. > :09:26.voted to leave, meaning 42% voted to remain. And nothing more. Shmilarly,

:09:27. > :09:30.we do not know that a large chunk of the 52% were duped into leaving the

:09:31. > :09:36.EU. We just know that we ard leaving and that is that. Indeed, according

:09:37. > :09:40.to a recent poll, it was st`ted that two thirds wanted to see imligration

:09:41. > :09:46.reduced, somewhat busting mx argument. But when asked how much

:09:47. > :09:50.they would pay, personally, to do so, about the same amount s`id zero

:09:51. > :09:55.and would therefore be willhng to have the same number of immhgrants

:09:56. > :09:59.in this country as a result. I caution that purely to say that

:10:00. > :10:06.whilst I recognise we are ldaving the EU, from my perspective, I have

:10:07. > :10:09.a real passion to make sure we protect those EU workers, and we do

:10:10. > :10:17.not use the referendum as anything other than a decision to le`ve the

:10:18. > :10:20.EU. Madam Deputy Speaker, the contribution of EU nationals to our

:10:21. > :10:24.country is difficult to overstate, and that is why I do not disagree

:10:25. > :10:28.with the word of the first part of the motion. There are now 3 million

:10:29. > :10:32.nationals living in the UK, overwhelmingly in employment,

:10:33. > :10:35.overwhelmingly living decent, law abiding lives and overwhelmhngly

:10:36. > :10:40.enhancing British society. Ht is a fact that has sometimes been lost in

:10:41. > :10:42.the discussions over immigr`tion in the recent months, that the success

:10:43. > :10:53.of the British economy over recent years owes a great

:10:54. > :10:57.deal to the contribution of EU nationals. In 2014 more jobs were

:10:58. > :11:00.created in the county of Yorkshire than in the whole of France. More

:11:01. > :11:02.jobs were generated in the TK than in the rest of the EU put together.

:11:03. > :11:05.EU nationals have helped to build that success. In doing so, they have

:11:06. > :11:08.helped to pool our country back from the financial abyss we were staring

:11:09. > :11:10.into in 2010. In Cheltenham alone, Polish nationals in particular had

:11:11. > :11:13.in a short period of time bdcome part of the backbone of our

:11:14. > :11:20.community and our way of life. They are there working in the care homes,

:11:21. > :11:24.working in the General Hosphtal working in our shops on the

:11:25. > :11:29.promenade, in bars and rest`urants. And in the overwhelming majority of

:11:30. > :11:35.cases they are doing so quidtly diligently, uncomplainingly. The

:11:36. > :11:40.work ethic and can-do attittde is an object lesson and they see nothing

:11:41. > :11:45.more than the right to stand on their own two feet. -- they seek

:11:46. > :11:49.nothing more. The message is that those who have come here to build a

:11:50. > :11:55.light here are welcomed, valued and respected. It is hard to disagree

:11:56. > :12:01.with the sentiment from the SNP but I fear that this motion appdars to

:12:02. > :12:04.be political. And I am sorrx to say that it appears to be mischhefmaking

:12:05. > :12:10.at best and even irresponsible at worst. I say that with some

:12:11. > :12:17.dividends because much of what comes from the SNP spokesman bears

:12:18. > :12:22.listening to, but I have concerned. -- I say that with some divhdends.

:12:23. > :12:26.As the Member for Newark has indicated, the fact is that by the

:12:27. > :12:30.time this all happened, and I was a Remainer by the time Brexit

:12:31. > :12:36.happened, the overwhelming lajority of EU nationals have the right to

:12:37. > :12:42.remain in the UK because of the right to remain. The second point is

:12:43. > :12:46.this. EU nationals are not going to be required to leave. It is not

:12:47. > :12:50.going to happen. I would not vote for it, the House would not fall for

:12:51. > :12:54.it and it would be morally bankrupt and economically ruinous. There was

:12:55. > :13:04.a danger that this unnecess`rily sets he is running. It stokds fear

:13:05. > :13:09.where none needs exist. -- sets hares running. And it is thd duty of

:13:10. > :13:13.any British Government to protect the right of its citizens. This

:13:14. > :13:17.motion does not acknowledge that their point that there are 0 million

:13:18. > :13:20.citizens living abroad who `lso want reassurance because they have

:13:21. > :13:27.families, and jobs and livelihoods that they do not want to lose. And

:13:28. > :13:31.it is a fair point that no DU head of state has provided our n`tionals,

:13:32. > :13:37.and that includes Scottish nationals as well, that insurance. -- that

:13:38. > :13:41.assurance. I will give way. I'm grateful to the honourable `nd learn

:13:42. > :13:43.a gentleman for giving way. If the rights of British citizens living

:13:44. > :13:46.abroad were so important to the party opposite, why did thex not

:13:47. > :13:53.give them a vote in the EU referendum? I am always grateful for

:13:54. > :13:56.intervention but with respect, that is a bit of a distraction. Ht is not

:13:57. > :13:59.what we are focusing on. We are focusing on the rights of British

:14:00. > :14:06.national is overseas and EU nationals in the UK. It is wrong to

:14:07. > :14:10.sidetrack it in that way. The SNP are right, this has got to be

:14:11. > :14:13.resolved. And I am concerned and I'm sure some of my colleagues `re well

:14:14. > :14:18.about this dragging on. My honourable friend made this point

:14:19. > :14:23.about the Council summit tolorrow and I hope that the opportunity will

:14:24. > :14:26.be taken to discuss this with heads of state because make no mistake, we

:14:27. > :14:30.are dealing with people herd and it is incumbent on heads of st`te in

:14:31. > :14:34.Europe and our own government to grasp the nettle and push this issue

:14:35. > :14:37.to bed. And it is for the rdasons that I set out that I am not in a

:14:38. > :14:49.position to support this motion As I rise, I look across thd benches

:14:50. > :14:56.opposite, and they are prob`bly thinking I am one of those that is

:14:57. > :15:00.the ultimate, that is the principal scaremonger, because... LAUGHTER

:15:01. > :15:05.Because I was the first on these benches, to raise the mention rape

:15:06. > :15:09.issue of EU nationals in thhs house, and I raised it before the

:15:10. > :15:14.referendum vote, when because of the Leave campaign, two of my

:15:15. > :15:20.constituents, originally from Germany, told me that such was their

:15:21. > :15:27.concern about the way in whhch immigration was being discussed was

:15:28. > :15:31.that they were leaving the TK for the vote, because they did not want

:15:32. > :15:34.to be around, because they had been denied by this government a vote, a

:15:35. > :15:37.vote they were allowed to h`ve in the referendum in Scotland, but

:15:38. > :15:45.denied the vote for the European referendum. They said, when they

:15:46. > :15:49.came back, if there was going to be a vote to leave the EU, that they

:15:50. > :15:56.would choose to leave as well. And they would go to an EU country. I

:15:57. > :16:01.have tried all I can, to st`rt with them and try to persuade thdm to

:16:02. > :16:05.stay, but they have put thehr house up for sale, in the last two weeks,

:16:06. > :16:12.they are closing their business and they are seeking to move back. That

:16:13. > :16:16.is not scaremongering. That is recognising. Fact. The real effect,

:16:17. > :16:24.the facts on human beings lhving in this country. There has been every

:16:25. > :16:27.frame from the Tory benches that there is nothing to worry about the

:16:28. > :16:30.Chancellor has just been asked on this exact point and he said he

:16:31. > :16:36.hoped there would be an agrdement, but he went on to say, if the UK and

:16:37. > :16:39.EU fails to reach such an agreement, and a migration scheme which was

:16:40. > :16:42.unilateral, we will have choices to make about how we would choose to

:16:43. > :16:48.deal with the nationals in the UK, it would be a matter for thd UK to

:16:49. > :16:52.decide. Hardly wonder that people are frightened when that is what the

:16:53. > :16:57.Chancellor says. I thank my right honourable friend for that

:16:58. > :17:03.intervention. This goes back to the minister who is no longer whth us,

:17:04. > :17:08.and his opening remarks, whhle he was trying to reassure and say there

:17:09. > :17:12.is no uncertainty at one st`ge in his speech, the honourable lember

:17:13. > :17:21.for Scarborough and Whitby said we are not in a position to set out a

:17:22. > :17:27.definitive position...! Why not Because it would not be good

:17:28. > :17:36.negotiating practice, I quote. Certainly... I thank the Honourable

:17:37. > :17:39.member one more time. Mention that in the Scottish referendum, EU

:17:40. > :17:43.nationals were allowed to vote. EU nationals did not get a votd at

:17:44. > :17:49.Westminster or did not get ` vote at the EU referendum. Another dxample

:17:50. > :17:56.thrown down by the UK Government, British nationals going abroad vote

:17:57. > :18:02.for life. Another divide. Does my honourable friend agree? Agree

:18:03. > :18:06.entirely, but I also want to move on to tackle a question which was

:18:07. > :18:10.raised of us from Honourabld members opposite, and they said, ardn't you

:18:11. > :18:14.concerned about British cithzens, who are living abroad, and their

:18:15. > :18:21.rights as well? I will tell you I am, and I will tell you who first

:18:22. > :18:25.raised this concern with me, Tracy De Jong Eglin, who contacted me and

:18:26. > :18:30.lives in the Netherlands, and the thing that can serve her was that

:18:31. > :18:33.because the government -- the thing that concerned her was that because

:18:34. > :18:38.the UK Government were saying this was negotiable, there were saying

:18:39. > :18:41.that it is not just EU nationals here that are negotiable but British

:18:42. > :18:48.nationals abroad. The UK Government are the ones that have created this

:18:49. > :18:55.insecurity, for EU nationals here. And for those British nationals

:18:56. > :18:59.overseas. If you create, let me make another point about negotiations,

:19:00. > :19:03.before I take another intervention: when you enter negotiations, you

:19:04. > :19:11.thereby automatically creatd uncertainty. You can do othdrwise,

:19:12. > :19:14.because negotiations involvd the trading of positions. I havd a

:19:15. > :19:21.question that I hope the Minister will be able to answer, when he

:19:22. > :19:24.rises to reply. What is it that he is willing to trade away in these

:19:25. > :19:30.negotiations? Because he must have in his mind something that hs

:19:31. > :19:37.tradable, otherwise there would be no negotiation. And we know that we

:19:38. > :19:43.don't need to have negotiathons based on what is called symletrical

:19:44. > :19:47.negotiations, in other words, because we have people in a citizens

:19:48. > :19:51.a position here, has to be negotiated with people in a citizens

:19:52. > :19:57.citizen negotiation forehand position elsewhere. We will say that

:19:58. > :20:04.we can try to secure the rights of British citizens by utilising

:20:05. > :20:05.economic levers. There is no moral justification, no negotiating

:20:06. > :20:10.justification for the uncertainty this government has created for both

:20:11. > :20:16.EU nationals and four British citizens overseas. Thank yot for

:20:17. > :20:19.making way, fantastic speech, this motion is quite simple, it hs about

:20:20. > :20:26.EU nationals and their currdnt rights. I want to hear -- mdmbers on

:20:27. > :20:34.the other side pulled the sdntiment but unable to vote. This is a

:20:35. > :20:41.snarling statement to Europd about current rights. They should be

:20:42. > :20:45.voting for SNP notions bud lotions. I agree entirely, it is not enough

:20:46. > :20:51.also to say that we want people to stay here, it is about, we want them

:20:52. > :20:56.to have rights, and the problem is, many of the rights that indhviduals

:20:57. > :21:01.hold in our society are rights they have because they are an EU citizen.

:21:02. > :21:04.It is under EU law. It is under EU law that they have the right to work

:21:05. > :21:08.here, that they have the right to retire here, that they have the

:21:09. > :21:12.right to vote in elections `nd access to welfare, the rights to

:21:13. > :21:21.access to health services, these are EU guaranteed rights. We want to see

:21:22. > :21:27.these in shined in law. The transfer continues to claw the feet from the

:21:28. > :21:33.Tory case. No migration curbs on bankers. The bankers will bd fine,

:21:34. > :21:45.the Honourable gentleman's constituents will be struggling

:21:46. > :21:55.Astonishing point, does this not speak to the naivete of those on the

:21:56. > :21:58.opposite benches. There is `n additional right here, with these

:21:59. > :22:05.negotiations, and that is the right to safety. Looking at the Polish

:22:06. > :22:13.community, seeming to take the brunt of this. They have a right to some

:22:14. > :22:17.reassurances, surely. The Honourable gentleman makes a wonderful point, I

:22:18. > :22:22.have been in discussions in my own constituency with a body called the

:22:23. > :22:29.migrants forum. Has the majority of its members opposed. They h`ve been

:22:30. > :22:34.coming to me with concerns, wanting to find ways to give reassurance. It

:22:35. > :22:38.is not good enough for some people in the opposite benches to say, they

:22:39. > :22:42.shouldn't be frightened. Thdy shouldn't be uncertain. But by the

:22:43. > :22:49.way, putting you into the negotiation part nonetheless. That

:22:50. > :22:52.is not reassurance. It is pdrfectly understandable that people `re

:22:53. > :22:58.uncertain, and insecure abott their rights. I thought my honour`ble

:22:59. > :23:03.friend from Central Ayrshird, put that wonderfully, when she talked

:23:04. > :23:10.about her own husband. A doctor Fine man. Working near 30 ydars A

:23:11. > :23:18.fine man indeed, I have met him he is not somebody who is going to move

:23:19. > :23:20.us back down easily scared. Reflecting uncertainty in hhs mind

:23:21. > :23:27.as well as uncertainty in thousands upon thousands of people's linds. I

:23:28. > :23:33.had a meeting in my constittency when 40 EU citizens came along. To

:23:34. > :23:39.talk about their anxieties. These are real anxieties. This government

:23:40. > :23:45.should do the right thing. The Minister should stand up now. And

:23:46. > :23:56.guarantee all their rights hn our country. Thank you very much, Madame

:23:57. > :23:59.Deputy Speaker, and can I congratulate the SNP for securing

:24:00. > :24:03.this debate, we have been ddaling with a very important issue today,

:24:04. > :24:06.the status of EU nationals living in the UK, following the referdndum,

:24:07. > :24:11.and the decision of the British people to leave the EU. I'm very

:24:12. > :24:17.glad that Parliament has a chance to debate this issue in detail, and I

:24:18. > :24:19.commend the lady from Edinbtrgh South West and the Honourable

:24:20. > :24:24.gentleman for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath for bringing thhs issue

:24:25. > :24:28.to the attention of the house. I'm also delighted to face for the first

:24:29. > :24:34.time my honourable friend, the Honourable gentleman for Shdffield

:24:35. > :24:38.Central, we have served togdther on select committees before, wd share

:24:39. > :24:42.similar values, and I'm looking forward to working with him on the

:24:43. > :24:48.debates to come. Having listened very carefully to this debate today,

:24:49. > :24:51.I would say that tone is important, we should be here as the Honourable

:24:52. > :24:56.gentleman representing the Highlands said, to provide reassurancd, and I

:24:57. > :25:01.hope in my comments I can provide some of that reassurance. Wd have

:25:02. > :25:04.had a number of excellent speeches, it has been great to hear from

:25:05. > :25:10.Honourable friend from Braintree, Cardiff North, Spelthorne, Lonmouth,

:25:11. > :25:13.Boston, who gave a very thotghtful speech about some of the issues

:25:14. > :25:21.around immigration and whosd comments on that I saw were picked

:25:22. > :25:25.up by my honourable friend. That is a debate for another time, ht is

:25:26. > :25:28.important that we focus tod`y on the position of the rights of ET

:25:29. > :25:35.nationals and the point that so many of my honourable friends have been

:25:36. > :25:37.making, the right to secure for UK nationals as well. Let me m`ke

:25:38. > :25:42.absolutely clear, the government is clear, it wants to protect the

:25:43. > :25:46.status of EU nationals resident in the UK and the only circumstances in

:25:47. > :25:52.which that would not be possible is if British citizens rights hn other

:25:53. > :25:58.states were not protected. Like the secretary of state, I find ht hard

:25:59. > :26:04.to imagine, near impossible to imagine that scenario arising. As

:26:05. > :26:08.members have made clear, EU citizens make an invaluable contribution to

:26:09. > :26:12.the country, and the governlent welcomes that contribution. My

:26:13. > :26:24.honourable friend for Cheltdnham recognises this. The house clearly

:26:25. > :26:29.feel strongly about the isste. The government will seek a swift

:26:30. > :26:33.solution to this issue, when discussions with the beginnhng. This

:26:34. > :26:38.brings me onto my second pohnt. What I see as a government priorhty to

:26:39. > :26:41.address this issue as soon `s possible, the fact remains that we

:26:42. > :26:48.need an agreement to do so. It would be appropriate to -- it would not be

:26:49. > :26:52.appropriate to provide unil`teral decisions and are responsible to do

:26:53. > :26:57.so. Parliamentary scrutiny of the Brexit process was considerdd, but

:26:58. > :27:01.included the position that we should not undermine the negotiating

:27:02. > :27:04.position of the government. The government understands the

:27:05. > :27:11.importance of giving certain seek to EU citizens who have moved to create

:27:12. > :27:14.a life in the UK but we cannot ahead of negotiations present a unilateral

:27:15. > :27:17.position, it must be done following negotiation and agreement whth the

:27:18. > :27:22.EU. Doing so otherwise would risk adversely affecting our negotiating

:27:23. > :27:25.position and therefore the position of British citizens who havd chosen

:27:26. > :27:29.to build a life with their families in other countries, a point that my

:27:30. > :27:34.honourable friend for Braintree and my honourable friend for backs and

:27:35. > :27:38.battle made clear in their speeches. I will not give way to the time

:27:39. > :27:43.being, right gentleman for Leicester East rated a new area of fe`r,

:27:44. > :27:46.talking about a trade-off, hn numbers, that is the first time I

:27:47. > :27:50.have ever heard anything like that as Asa Jackson and it is nothing

:27:51. > :27:54.that we have been contemplating -- Bexhill and Battle. The govdrnment

:27:55. > :28:00.want fair treatment for British and EU citizens. They will be able to

:28:01. > :28:06.achieve that aim in agreement with the European Union. We have already

:28:07. > :28:09.been clear that this is a priority for negotiations and the excellent

:28:10. > :28:13.Leader of the Opposition in Scotland was pressing the case on thd open

:28:14. > :28:20.door of my right honourable friend for Howden Krauss and Heiden only

:28:21. > :28:25.last weekend. The final key point in this section, the status of EU

:28:26. > :28:29.nationals living in the UK will not change while the UK remains a member

:28:30. > :28:34.of the year. -- Haltemprice and Howden. It is important to remind

:28:35. > :28:37.people that we remain a full member with all the rights and

:28:38. > :28:42.responsibilities of EU citizenship until the end of the Articld 50

:28:43. > :28:44.process. I have heard contrhbutions including those of Honourable

:28:45. > :28:49.members from both sides of the house, both sides of the debate

:28:50. > :28:54.married to EU citizens, in the debate, I commend them on the

:28:55. > :28:59.statements they have made. @bout the concerns, the real concerns, of EU

:29:00. > :29:03.nationals and their status, and I will give way to the Honour`ble

:29:04. > :29:05.Lady. But it appears to me that there is new unanimity in this house

:29:06. > :29:17.on providing reassurance. I think the honourable gentleman for

:29:18. > :29:24.giving way, but does he not recognise that kind of plathtude

:29:25. > :29:28.reassurance isn't real reassurance? Reassurance has been given to

:29:29. > :29:32.students. Why not give it to actual residence. Otherwise it will be

:29:33. > :29:37.three years from the vote until we know what's going to follow. As I've

:29:38. > :29:42.already pointed out to the honourable lady, during those three

:29:43. > :29:46.years, the situation has not changed. It is the government's

:29:47. > :29:52.absolute intention to securd the rights of EU nationals in the UK and

:29:53. > :29:57.UK nationals in the EU is e`rly in the negotiations as we can. I think

:29:58. > :30:01.that is reassurance. Let me be clear that EU nationals and citizdns who

:30:02. > :30:07.continue to live, work and study in the UK under existing EU law were

:30:08. > :30:13.able to be accompanied or joint by EU members -- family members. It is

:30:14. > :30:18.important that we make this clear and continue to provide reassurance

:30:19. > :30:22.to all of our constituents. I understand what the minister says,

:30:23. > :30:25.and it sounds all very good, but why was the Chancellor this aftdrnoon

:30:26. > :30:32.able to give specific assur`nce about bankers but apparentlx he is

:30:33. > :30:38.unable to give that to the rest of EU citizens? We shouldn't bd trying

:30:39. > :30:42.to create an atmosphere of fear We should be able to set out the

:30:43. > :30:48.reassurances, which I have given and will continue to give a stop in

:30:49. > :30:50.conclusion, EU nationals can have the government's complete

:30:51. > :30:55.reassurance that there was no immediate change to their rhght to

:30:56. > :31:00.enter, work, study and live in the UK as a result of the EU referendum.

:31:01. > :31:04.I'd like to reassure EU cithzens in Scotland and up and down thd country

:31:05. > :31:07.that we recognise the enormous contribution they make our dconomy,

:31:08. > :31:13.service, schools, care sector and communities. We will act fahrly

:31:14. > :31:18.towards them as we expect other EU countries to act fairly tow`rds our

:31:19. > :31:23.citizens. We have heard frol all parts of the UK and all sidds of the

:31:24. > :31:27.referendum debate today and, as we move forward, we must seek to bring

:31:28. > :31:32.the whole country together. Given that UK and EU would like to

:31:33. > :31:36.maintain a close and friendly relationship, the government is

:31:37. > :31:40.confident we will work together and both the EU and British cithzens

:31:41. > :31:44.will be protected through a reciprocal agreement. It's because

:31:45. > :31:48.this motion fails to acknowledge that and the technical failhngs of

:31:49. > :31:54.the motion, pointed out by the honourable members for Scarborough,

:31:55. > :32:00.Forest of Dean, and Newquay, I would ask members outside the house to

:32:01. > :32:03.reject this motion today. Bhg question is as on the order paper.

:32:04. > :32:06.As many are of that opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no.. Division.

:32:07. > :33:06.Clear the lobby. The question is as on the order

:33:07. > :33:09.paper. As many are of that opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no.

:33:10. > :33:14.Teletubby ayes, Owen Thompson and Marian Fellows. Terrors for the

:33:15. > :40:08.noes, Chris Pynchon and Heaton Harris. -- tellers.

:40:09. > :48:05.I can now announce the results of this select it each share of

:48:06. > :48:08.elections held today, nomin`tions for the five vacant select committee

:48:09. > :48:15.chairs closed yesterday and elections were held by secrdt ballot

:48:16. > :48:20.today. No ballot was necess`ry for the International Trade seldct

:48:21. > :48:27.committee, for which a single nomination had been received. The

:48:28. > :48:37.chair of that committee will be Angus Brendan McNeill. CHEERING

:48:38. > :48:44.In the four contested electhons a total of 546 ballot papers were

:48:45. > :48:49.submitted, the ballots being counted under the alternative vote system.

:48:50. > :48:56.BOOING LAUGHTER

:48:57. > :49:06.The following candidates were elected: culture media and sport

:49:07. > :49:13.committee, Damian Collins. Dxiting the European Union committed Tom

:49:14. > :49:19.Hilary Benn. -- exiting the European Union committee, Hilary Benn. Home

:49:20. > :49:27.affairs committee, Yvette Cooper. Science and technology commhttee,

:49:28. > :49:31.Stephen Metcalf. The full breakdown of voting in each contest indicating

:49:32. > :49:37.the votes attributable to e`ch candidate after each redistribution

:49:38. > :49:41.of the votes of eliminated candidates is set out in a paper

:49:42. > :49:46.available from the vote offhce, the members so elected take up their

:49:47. > :49:51.positions immediately, and... Order... Except in the case of

:49:52. > :49:54.exiting the European Union `nd International Trade, who formally

:49:55. > :50:01.take up their positions when their committee has been nominated by the

:50:02. > :50:06.house. I warmly congratulatd all the right honourable and Honour`ble

:50:07. > :50:11.members concerned. I should like I'm sure on behalf of the house to thank

:50:12. > :50:15.all of the candidates who participated in the elections. I

:50:16. > :50:23.know that the house will want to join me in thanking very warmly all

:50:24. > :50:26.of the staff of the house who so efficiently facilitated the conduct

:50:27. > :50:45.of the elections. Thank you. Order. We now come to the sdcond

:50:46. > :50:55.opposition day motion, on House of Lords reform and the size of the

:50:56. > :51:02.House of Commons. To move the motion, I call, hopefully, he not

:51:03. > :51:06.been passed while speaking, I urge Honourable members exiting the

:51:07. > :51:15.chamber to do so quickly and with appropriate courtesy, I call to move

:51:16. > :51:19.the motion, Mr Pete Wishart. Thank you very much. Can I be the first

:51:20. > :51:22.Honourable member to congratulate the worthy winners of the sdlect

:51:23. > :51:26.committees and also congrattlate everybody for making a little

:51:27. > :51:32.festival of democracy within these hallowed chambers. I think dverybody

:51:33. > :51:36.appreciates the opportunity to have a say who sits on these seldct

:51:37. > :51:42.committees once again. What on earth is going on in our parliamentary

:51:43. > :51:46.democracy? What on earth is going on in a so-called Parliamentarx

:51:47. > :51:52.democracy? How can we possibly get to the state that we now have more

:51:53. > :51:57.parliamentarians in these Houses of Parliament is appointed by ` Prime

:51:58. > :52:00.Minister than elected by thd people? In what sort of parallel political

:52:01. > :52:05.universe can it continue to be a good thing, can we continue to

:52:06. > :52:11.increase the membership of `n unelected house, while some obtain

:52:12. > :52:15.easily at the same time seeking to reduce the number of directly

:52:16. > :52:19.elected members of parliament. And have you had a look at that place

:52:20. > :52:27.around the corner, have you had a cursory glance at the membership of

:52:28. > :52:32.the blaze, it is an absolutd, art, undemocratic disgrace. -- art.

:52:33. > :52:39.Stuffed full of donors, cronies policeman, former MPs and fhle

:52:40. > :52:42.members of Parliament. Yes, early, why not! I'm grateful to thd

:52:43. > :52:46.honourable gentleman for giving way but, come on, he talks about has he

:52:47. > :52:52.heard, and has he seen the way that place operates, as he heard any of

:52:53. > :52:55.the debates, has he heard ddbates from distinguished lawyers, from

:52:56. > :53:00.distinguished surgeons, frol distinguished architects, from

:53:01. > :53:08.people, some of whom have more expertise than in this placd! I want

:53:09. > :53:11.to go into forensically look at the membership of the House of Lords and

:53:12. > :53:13.I really hope that the honotrable gentleman listens carefully about

:53:14. > :53:19.the type of people we have `ssembled in that place, they are unddmocratic

:53:20. > :53:25.horrors. 812 members of the House of Lords. Making it the legisl`ture

:53:26. > :53:30.anywhere in the world bark the People's Congress of China. Yes I

:53:31. > :53:34.will give way. Does the honourable gentleman not agree with me that we

:53:35. > :53:39.should reduce the size of the House of Lords and we could do th`t very

:53:40. > :53:43.simple, get rid of 21 of 26 Bishop, 92 hereditary peers, and a landatory

:53:44. > :53:48.retirement age after 20 years, not based on age but based on ldngth of

:53:49. > :53:53.service. Mandatory retirement after 20 years, that would easily take

:53:54. > :53:57.care of 212 plus peers and we would have a smaller House of Lords than