31/10/2016

:00:00. > :00:00.go away, please think again. That there is the quality of the and all.

:00:00. > :00:00.Two criminal investigations going on and they have access to the Aubrey

:00:07. > :00:15.material and there will be no change in that aspect. , Jonathan @shwood.

:00:16. > :00:21.I ask that the state to makd a statement on NHS funding. The

:00:22. > :00:27.Secretary of State for Health, Secretary Jeremy Hunt. Thank you, Mr

:00:28. > :00:33.Speaker. Compared to five ydars ago, the NHS is responsible for ` million

:00:34. > :00:40.more over 75s. In five years' time there will be another million. We

:00:41. > :00:44.want to look after each and every NHS patient with the highest

:00:45. > :00:48.standards of safety and card. The pressures of an ageing population

:00:49. > :00:53.make this uniquely challenghng. I welcome the chance to remind the

:00:54. > :00:58.House of this government's repeated commitment to support our NHS. The

:00:59. > :01:04.NHS budget has increased in real terms every year since 2010. NHS

:01:05. > :01:09.spending has increased as a proportion of total governmdnt

:01:10. > :01:16.spending every year since 2010 and is 10.1% higher per head in real

:01:17. > :01:21.terms than when we came to office. The OECD says our spending hs 1 %

:01:22. > :01:27.higher than the ODC the average for developing countries, and at 9. % of

:01:28. > :01:34.GDP it is about the same as other Western European countries, for

:01:35. > :01:38.which the average is 9.8%. But given the current particularly ch`llenging

:01:39. > :01:42.circumstances, in 2014 the NHS stepped back and for the first time

:01:43. > :01:47.put together its own plan for the future. It was an excellent plan

:01:48. > :01:52.based on the principle that because prevention is better than ctre, we

:01:53. > :01:57.need to be better at looking after people closer to or in their homes

:01:58. > :02:02.instead of them waiting for expensive hospital treatment. The

:02:03. > :02:05.plan asked for a minimum of an 8 billion increase in NHS funding over

:02:06. > :02:10.five years and for it to be front-loaded to allow the NHS to

:02:11. > :02:15.invest in new models of card upfront. I can confirm to the House

:02:16. > :02:20.following the spending revidw that the NHS will receive an increase of

:02:21. > :02:25.?10 billion in real terms over the six years since the five-ye`r

:02:26. > :02:32.forward view was published. In cash terms, that will see the NHS budget

:02:33. > :02:40.increase from ?98.1 billion, to ?119.9 billion in 2020, 2020, a

:02:41. > :02:44.highly significant rise at ` time when public finances are severely

:02:45. > :02:51.constrained by the deficit this government regrettably inherited.

:02:52. > :02:56.Because the particular priority of the NHS was to front-load the

:02:57. > :03:01.settlement, ?6 billion of the ? 0 billion increase comes before the

:03:02. > :03:06.end of the first two years of the spending review, including ` ?3 8

:03:07. > :03:12.billion real terms increase this year alone. That ?3.8 billion real

:03:13. > :03:16.terms increase represents a 52% higher increase in just one year

:03:17. > :03:23.than the party opposite werd promising over the lifetime of this

:03:24. > :03:27.Parliament. Jonathan Ashworth. This morning the chair of the He`lth

:03:28. > :03:32.Select Committee and her colleagues said the government NHS spending

:03:33. > :03:36.claims were, quote, inaccur`te and false. Mr Speaker, we on thhs side

:03:37. > :03:43.of the House agree with that analysis. The Secretary of State has

:03:44. > :03:47.done it again, he tells us they are investing ?10 million more hn the

:03:48. > :03:52.NHS and it has now been confirmed this figure is, quote, not only

:03:53. > :03:57.incorrect, but risks giving a false impression that the NHS is `wash

:03:58. > :04:03.with cash. Is it not the re`lity that this government has cut adult

:04:04. > :04:08.social care, the public health budget, the NHS capital budget, and

:04:09. > :04:14.now we learn the average amount we spend on health care for each person

:04:15. > :04:19.in this country were actually fall in 2018, 20 19. Does this not raise

:04:20. > :04:24.serious questions about the claims ministers and prime ministers have

:04:25. > :04:27.been making from that dispatch box? The only way the government's

:04:28. > :04:32.figures could be further discredited is if the Secretary of Statd put

:04:33. > :04:36.them on the side of a bus and got the Foreign Secretary to drhve it.

:04:37. > :04:43.With the minister admit thex have not given the NHS the money it

:04:44. > :04:47.needed? Will he give us an `ccurate account of the spending plans? Will

:04:48. > :04:53.he tell us when the Chancellor will respond to the health committee s

:04:54. > :04:57.letter? We have also learned today from the health service Journal that

:04:58. > :05:04.one in three local areas intend to close or downgrade A departments

:05:05. > :05:07.in 18 months. One in five expect to close consultant led maternhty

:05:08. > :05:14.services. More than half will close or downgrade community hosphtals.

:05:15. > :05:20.Will he confirm whether these reports are accurate? How m`ny eight

:05:21. > :05:23.and you departments, maternhty units, community hospitals, does

:05:24. > :05:30.this Secretary expects to close or be downgraded within the next year

:05:31. > :05:34.and a half? Mr Speaker, before the last election the Secretary of State

:05:35. > :05:40.told us he was confident of delivering the money the NHS needed.

:05:41. > :05:45.Today that has been exposed as misplaced. The Tory promises are

:05:46. > :05:49.completely in tatters. Rathdr than defending the Prime Minister's spin

:05:50. > :05:54.on this figure, why does he not stand up for patients and staff and

:05:55. > :06:04.deliver the funding that our social care sector desperately needs? Can I

:06:05. > :06:08.start by welcoming him to hhs first session and as an old-timer in this

:06:09. > :06:13.role I hope he will not need reminding of some of the fat around

:06:14. > :06:18.health spending. First of all, he said that the government did not

:06:19. > :06:22.give the NHS what it asked for. Let me remind him what Simon Stdphens, a

:06:23. > :06:28.former Labour special advisdrs said at the time of the spending review

:06:29. > :06:35.settlement last year. He sahd, our case for the NHS has been hdard and

:06:36. > :06:41.actively supported. This settlement is a clear and highly welcole

:06:42. > :06:45.acceptance of our argument for front-loaded NHS investment and

:06:46. > :06:49.kick-start the NHS five-year forward review's fundamental redesign of

:06:50. > :06:55.care. I will tell him what `nd who did not give the NHS what they were

:06:56. > :07:02.asking for. It was the Labotr Party. In the last election they rdfused to

:07:03. > :07:07.support the NHS... I know this is an comfortable for him, but thhs is the

:07:08. > :07:13.reality. His party refused to support the NHS's own plan for the

:07:14. > :07:18.future. His question was about money, but they also refused to fund

:07:19. > :07:28.it. The NHS wanted eight billion and Labour's promise was ?2.5 bhllion.

:07:29. > :07:32.Not 6 billion, not 4 billion, but ?2.5 billion more, less than a third

:07:33. > :07:37.of what the NHS said they ndeded. Even if you accept the chair of the

:07:38. > :07:43.Select Committee's numbers, which I do not, Labour were pledging over

:07:44. > :07:46.the course of the parliament only half what this government h`s

:07:47. > :07:51.actually delivered in the fhrst year of the spending review. He tsed

:07:52. > :07:57.other choice words and one of those words was spin. What creates the

:07:58. > :08:02.most misleading impression hs the Labour Party claiming to want more

:08:03. > :08:07.funding for the NHS were in the areas they actually run it, the

:08:08. > :08:12.opposite has happened. In the last four years of the last Labotr

:08:13. > :08:17.parliament, Labour cut NHS funding in Wales... Those are the actual

:08:18. > :08:24.figures. This is a context where the Barnett formula whether govdrnment

:08:25. > :08:33.in Wales has over ?700 more per head to spend on public services. Can I

:08:34. > :08:38.remind him what Ed Balls, now no longer sadly of this parish said

:08:39. > :08:39.about funding for local councils? He said not a penny more. We are giving

:08:40. > :08:52.local councillors more. And then he talked about other cuts

:08:53. > :08:56.which he alleges are going to happen in other hospital services `nd I

:08:57. > :08:59.simply said to him we have to make efficiency savings. I don't believe

:09:00. > :09:03.they will be on the scale wd talked about but how much worse but those

:09:04. > :09:07.efficiency savings have to be if the NHS was getting a third of the money

:09:08. > :09:11.it is currently getting? If he and his party think the NHS is on the

:09:12. > :09:17.fun that they need to accept that the policies in the last two

:09:18. > :09:21.elections that they advocatdd to spend were wrong and until they are

:09:22. > :09:27.serious about changing their policy, nobody will be serious about

:09:28. > :09:38.listening to their criticisl. I agree with the Secretary of State

:09:39. > :09:42.that prevention is better than cure, but he will also now it was

:09:43. > :09:50.dependent on adequate funding for adult social care and that there are

:09:51. > :10:03.issues around continuing rahds on the capital budget of the NHS. Would

:10:04. > :10:05.the Secretary of State confhrm he recognises the serious crishs in

:10:06. > :10:15.social care and the effect that is having on the NHS, thereford while I

:10:16. > :10:20.accept he does not agree with the health committee's appraisal of the

:10:21. > :10:27.10 billion figure, I'm afrahd I stick by those remarks. Let me start

:10:28. > :10:35.by saying I have enormous rdspect for my honourable friend. I respect

:10:36. > :10:39.her passion for the NHS, her knowledge about it and her

:10:40. > :10:44.background in it, so I would always listen very carefully to anxthing

:10:45. > :10:48.that she says. I hope she whll also understand that, just as shd speaks

:10:49. > :10:52.plainly today, I need to spdak plainly back and say I don't agree

:10:53. > :11:02.with the letter she wrote today and I'm afraid I do think her

:11:03. > :11:06.calculations are wrong. The use of the 10 billion figure was not as she

:11:07. > :11:11.said in her letter incorrect. The government has never claimed there

:11:12. > :11:14.was an extra ?10 billion increase in the Department of Health budget

:11:15. > :11:19.Indeed the basis of that nulber has not even come from the government,

:11:20. > :11:25.it has come from NHS England and their calculations as to wh`t they

:11:26. > :11:31.need to implement the forward view. I have those accepted painftl and

:11:32. > :11:37.difficult economies in central budgets will be needed in order to

:11:38. > :11:44.fund that plan. What they asked for was money to implement that, they

:11:45. > :11:49.got ?10 billion over six ye`rs or ?9 billion over five years, whhchever

:11:50. > :11:54.one you take it as either ?0 billion or ?2 billion more than the minimum

:11:55. > :11:57.they said they needed. She puoted Simon Stephens I think as s`ying

:11:58. > :12:01.that they had not got what they asked for but he was talking not

:12:02. > :12:05.about the request in the forward view but in terms of their

:12:06. > :12:10.negotiations over the profile of the funding in the negotiations we have

:12:11. > :12:14.with the Treasury. The reason that the funding increases are so small

:12:15. > :12:20.in the second and third year of the Parliament are precisely because we

:12:21. > :12:27.listen to him when he said he wanted the result to be front-loaddd. I

:12:28. > :12:34.fully accept that what happdns in the social care system has ` big

:12:35. > :12:43.impact in the NHS and I fully accept what happens in public health. We

:12:44. > :12:49.have introduced a precept for local authorities combined with an

:12:50. > :12:54.increase in the better care fund. This is a precept which 144 out of

:12:55. > :13:01.152 local authorities are t`king advantage of, which means a great

:13:02. > :13:05.number of them are spending on social care. That will come on top

:13:06. > :13:08.of deeper, faster integration of the health and social care systdm that

:13:09. > :13:14.needs to happen. We accept there are difficult economies that nedd to be

:13:15. > :13:18.made but it is not just abott public spinning. This government h`s a

:13:19. > :13:24.proud record of banning the display sale of tobacco, of introducing a

:13:25. > :13:28.sugary drinks tax, putting lore money into school sports. There are

:13:29. > :13:32.lots of things we can do whdn it to public health to make a big

:13:33. > :13:36.difference. Finally when it comes to capital, I agree there is pressure

:13:37. > :13:40.on the capital budget but a big opportunity for hospitals to make

:13:41. > :13:43.use of the land they are sitting on. They often don't use it to their

:13:44. > :13:51.fullest extent as a way of bridging that very difficult gap. With around

:13:52. > :13:55.80% of trusts in deficit and only about 4% making targets, I `m

:13:56. > :13:58.grateful for the health seldct committee for flagging up the daft

:13:59. > :14:02.financial state of the NHS hn England as evidenced by thehr letter

:14:03. > :14:09.to the Chancellor. We learn that the 10 billion figure is actually a bit

:14:10. > :14:15.of a fallacy. In Scotland, `ny reduction in new money for the NHS

:14:16. > :14:17.by the UK Government would hmpact on Barna consequence of an givdn that

:14:18. > :14:25.the UK Government have alre`dy slashed Scotland's budget bx between

:14:26. > :14:33.ten and 20%, they need to bd transparent.

:14:34. > :14:38.Having broken the Department of Health control total by 207 million,

:14:39. > :14:45.will the devolved governments get any share this additional 624

:14:46. > :14:48.million? Thank you Mr Speakdr, I think many people in Scotland will

:14:49. > :14:51.be somewhat surprised by thd honourable gentleman's commdnts

:14:52. > :14:55.because of the last parliamdnt spending in the NHS and England went

:14:56. > :15:00.up by 4%, whereas in Scotland it went down by 1%. The IFF is in fact

:15:01. > :15:04.confirmed at the time of thd independence referendum, thdy said

:15:05. > :15:08.it seems historically at le`st Scottish governments in Holxrood

:15:09. > :15:14.have placed less priority on funding the NHS in Scotland than governments

:15:15. > :15:16.in Westminster have for England In this Parliament, the party

:15:17. > :15:31.supporters already lost a vote on NHS cuts. So I just say that when

:15:32. > :15:35.the SNP has the courage to hncrease spending we will listen, but until

:15:36. > :15:40.then I think they should concentrate on looking after Scottish NHS

:15:41. > :15:47.patients in Scotland. There is understandably extensive interest in

:15:48. > :15:53.this, it would require brevhty to be exemplified a hope, true to form, by

:15:54. > :15:58.Mr Philip le bone. People in Kettering appreciate plain speaking,

:15:59. > :16:02.can the Health Secretary tell the house what the NHS budget w`s in

:16:03. > :16:11.2015, what it will be in 2020 to 21 and what the difference is between

:16:12. > :16:16.the two numbers? LAUGHTER I just want to get the exact figures

:16:17. > :16:22.in order to live up to his own reputation for plain speaking, which

:16:23. > :16:29.is second to none. The NHS budget in 2015 will be 98.1 billion, `nd in

:16:30. > :16:39.2021 it will go up to ?119.8 billion. That is in real terms a ?10

:16:40. > :16:41.billion increase. Isn't there an urgent need to be absolutelx

:16:42. > :16:47.straight with the British ptblic about the resources we will need to

:16:48. > :16:51.maintain both the NHS and the care system and to confront the fact we

:16:52. > :16:58.will all have to pay a bit lore to ensure that our loved ones get care

:16:59. > :17:00.when they need it? When he `nd I worked in government, we both

:17:01. > :17:06.campaigned hard on many occ`sions for more funding for the NHS,

:17:07. > :17:10.including mental health, whhch is a particular priority of both of ours.

:17:11. > :17:13.I think the answer to his qtestion is yes, that is why we are putting

:17:14. > :17:16.more money in this Parliament. My own view is that in future

:17:17. > :17:19.parliaments we will need to continue to increase the amount of ftnding

:17:20. > :17:24.going into the NHS, but the only point I would make is the thing that

:17:25. > :17:29.funds the NHS is a strong economy, and so we have to make sure we

:17:30. > :17:32.sustain those increases in NHS funding are sustainable and

:17:33. > :17:35.compatible with a strong economy and that is something I think this

:17:36. > :17:42.government, this Conservative government, has a very good track

:17:43. > :17:45.record of delivering. The plan is to achieve savings from communhty

:17:46. > :17:48.pharmacies are causing a grdat deal of concern in my constituency,

:17:49. > :17:52.particularly to the patient's group at the John Hampden surgery and

:17:53. > :17:55.residents in and around Prestwood, who believe it may result in the

:17:56. > :17:59.closure of our excellent rule pharmacy investment. What

:18:00. > :18:03.reassurances can the Secret`ry of State give to my constituents today

:18:04. > :18:07.that no pharmacies will be closed that are more than a mile from any

:18:08. > :18:13.other pharmacy, and will he make sure he takes into account the

:18:14. > :18:16.implications of GPs's workloads when looking at this pharmacies? First of

:18:17. > :18:21.all, I think the people of Prestwood are likely to have such an `ssiduous

:18:22. > :18:25.MP to campaign for their interests in Parliament today, as indded she

:18:26. > :18:29.always does and I can give her that reinsurance, because in the package

:18:30. > :18:33.of efficiencies we have set out and I think it is right that we ask

:18:34. > :18:37.pharmacies to set out and m`ke efficiencies in the way thex are run

:18:38. > :18:42.as we are asking the rest of the NHS to do so, we are protecting all the

:18:43. > :18:46.pharmacies that are a mile or more from any other pharmacy, and in that

:18:47. > :18:50.sense we are absolutely detdrmined to protect the provision for her

:18:51. > :18:57.constituents and all our constituents who depend on rule

:18:58. > :19:02.pharmacies. Thank you, Mr Speaker. If the government had stood by their

:19:03. > :19:06.word and invested the promised 0 billion in the NHS, does thd

:19:07. > :19:13.Secretary of State agree th`t the downgrade of Dewsbury A mhght not

:19:14. > :19:17.have been necessary? First of all can I welcome her to her pl`ce in

:19:18. > :19:22.this house. I am sure she whll make an extremely important contribution,

:19:23. > :19:28.and yes, she is filling verx big boots but I think she has m`de a

:19:29. > :19:32.very good start, if I may s`y. In terms of what happens with @MD

:19:33. > :19:36.departments, the changes in the pattern of services we provhde is

:19:37. > :19:40.something that has been a fdature of both when her party has been in

:19:41. > :19:45.party and when my own party has been in power, as the needs of the people

:19:46. > :19:50.who use the NHS also changes. So we need to do is to get the right

:19:51. > :19:54.balance between reassuring people that services are near to where they

:19:55. > :19:57.live, but also making sure that they get the right care when thex get

:19:58. > :20:01.there. So for things like strokes, that doesn't always mean gohng to

:20:02. > :20:05.the nearest hospital, it me`ns going somewhere waiting get 24-7 stroke

:20:06. > :20:08.care with the greatest chance of saving your life. If she has

:20:09. > :20:13.concerns about Dewsbury hospital, I am very happy to talk to her

:20:14. > :20:18.further. At a time when every government department with the

:20:19. > :20:21.exception of the department for international develop that has to

:20:22. > :20:25.reduce public expenditure, ht seems to me a remarkable feat of political

:20:26. > :20:30.skill to have achieved an increase the NHS than that of the Hole Office

:20:31. > :20:34.or the Ministry of Justice, but can the Home Secretary tell me there

:20:35. > :20:37.parts of the United Kingdom where health expenditure is not rhsing as

:20:38. > :20:45.fast as in England, and if there are, which political parties are in

:20:46. > :20:50.charge there? Can I thank mx right honourable friend, whose passion and

:20:51. > :20:53.commitment to higher standards for the constituencies served h`s

:20:54. > :20:57.inspired me in this job, just as I know it has inspired many others in

:20:58. > :21:02.the education field. Can I say to him that there are indeed p`rts of

:21:03. > :21:06.the United Kingdom that allow us a very good comparison as to the

:21:07. > :21:08.commitments to the NHS and the commitment to funding the NHS. If

:21:09. > :21:12.you look at both Wales, where funding went down in the first four

:21:13. > :21:15.years of the Parliament, and Scotland when it went down over the

:21:16. > :21:20.course of the last parliament, you can see both the SNP and thd Labour

:21:21. > :21:22.Party like to talk about thd NHS, but when it comes to writing the

:21:23. > :21:33.checks, they are nowhere to be seen. Can the Secretary of State guarantee

:21:34. > :21:37.every A department in north London with a rapidly rising popul`tion

:21:38. > :21:40.will remain open for the rest of this Parliament? If he can't

:21:41. > :21:45.guarantee it, how many will close and which ones, what is his hit

:21:46. > :21:50.list? What I can guarantee hs that the decisions about the futtre of

:21:51. > :21:53.A departments will be takdn by people locally, clinicians, who have

:21:54. > :21:57.the best interest of their patients at heart. And what I think he and I

:21:58. > :22:00.would both be able to agree on is that these the systems are not best

:22:01. > :22:04.taken by secretaries of state, and they are much better taken by people

:22:05. > :22:13.who don't have any kind of party political axe to grind. But any

:22:14. > :22:16.decision to change service provision at an A has the opportunity to be

:22:17. > :22:20.reviewed by the Secretary of State when it goes to an independdnt

:22:21. > :22:32.process and what would happdn in north-east London. Burnley General

:22:33. > :22:36.Hospital lost its A department. Under the coalition governmdnt a new

:22:37. > :22:40.?9 million urgent care centre opened and just last week the trusts

:22:41. > :22:47.admitted plans for a ?15 million development of the hospital. Does

:22:48. > :22:51.this not perfectly demonstr`te the hazard on the drug levels of

:22:52. > :22:55.investment in the NHS since Labour left government? It absolutdly does

:22:56. > :22:58.and I much enjoyed visiting some hospitals with him during the

:22:59. > :23:01.election campaign and I would say the difference between this side of

:23:02. > :23:04.the house and that side of the house is that in this side of the house we

:23:05. > :23:08.recognise that every penny of the NHS budget has to come from a strong

:23:09. > :23:12.economy, and if you take th`t for granted you end up having to cut the

:23:13. > :23:15.NHS budget and that is what has happened in Spain, Italy, Greece and

:23:16. > :23:18.Portugal and many other countries that have lost control of their

:23:19. > :23:22.national finances and it wotld be something the party oppositd would

:23:23. > :23:27.do good to remember. The government has been well and truly found out on

:23:28. > :23:32.this, Mr Speaker, and inste`d of selecting, quoting selectivdly from

:23:33. > :23:35.Simon Stephens, the head of the NHS, will the Secretary of State confirm

:23:36. > :23:38.that among the conditions Mr Stephens put down to the government

:23:39. > :23:43.as part of the five-year review was an increase in public health

:23:44. > :23:46.spending, not a 20% cut, and that social care spending should be

:23:47. > :23:49.maintained? Will he also confirmed because he was there in Simon

:23:50. > :23:52.Stephens's presents before the select committee that Mr Stdphens

:23:53. > :23:59.made quite clear those condhtions and others had not been met?

:24:00. > :24:05.Actually what Mr Stephen sahd, and I was there, was that social care

:24:06. > :24:16.provision and public health provision needed to be maintained.

:24:17. > :24:22.We are increasing social th`t by 3.5 that have been in the public health

:24:23. > :24:25.budget, we are doing other things that are not need to make stre that

:24:26. > :24:30.we improve this country's rdcord on public health. Can I congratulate

:24:31. > :24:38.the Secretary of State for laking sure that we have now record levels

:24:39. > :24:44.of spending in England? Last night that UMC was tweeting out that they

:24:45. > :24:51.could not cope. We all thank the hard-working staff in A, but the

:24:52. > :24:58.problem was demand. The NHS can do much more to improve the wax it

:24:59. > :25:05.signposts people. If it is trging people to go to the departmdnt for

:25:06. > :25:12.stitching and broken bones, that was amazing people. All parts of the NHS

:25:13. > :25:16.in England are embarking on the sustainability programme whhch is

:25:17. > :25:22.designed to find smart ways to reduce demand. That will include

:25:23. > :25:28.better use of pharmacies, bdtter use of GPs, more mental health

:25:29. > :25:31.provision. Well, you know, honourable members opposite are

:25:32. > :25:36.shouting, but why is it thex were not prepared to put the mondy into

:25:37. > :25:40.the NHS to help us implement these plans? There would be no

:25:41. > :25:46.sustainability or transform`tion on the thin gruel they were promising

:25:47. > :25:52.for the NHS at the last election. This government has set up ` ?1 5

:25:53. > :26:01.billion bailout fund for PFH. That is rewarding past profligacx and

:26:02. > :26:06.penalising frugal trusts like the trust in Wolverhampton. When will

:26:07. > :26:12.the Secretary of State redrdss this imbalance and reward frugalhty? I am

:26:13. > :26:15.getting more and bought impressed with the honourable gentlem`n's

:26:16. > :26:22.questions. Last time he acctsed me of being a Corbyn fan and this time

:26:23. > :26:26.he is accusing me of profligacy when the rest of the House is saxing we

:26:27. > :26:31.are being rather too parsimonious with the NHS. I agree with him that

:26:32. > :26:39.private finance initiatives were an utter disgrace and they left the NHS

:26:40. > :26:43.with over ?70 million of debt by 2010. But there does not sedm to be

:26:44. > :26:47.a strong correlation between shiny, new buildings and good care for

:26:48. > :26:51.patients if you look at the number of reporters and we are doing

:26:52. > :27:01.everything we can to unwind that very difficult problem. I think that

:27:02. > :27:06.calls for Sir Desmond Swain. How much more would he have to spend per

:27:07. > :27:12.year by 2021 had the Chancellor taken the advice of the party

:27:13. > :27:17.opposite? If the Chancellor had taken the advice of the party

:27:18. > :27:22.opposite, the NHS would havd found ?5.5 billion less every single year

:27:23. > :27:27.to spend. I say to honourable members worried about their A

:27:28. > :27:30.departments, mental health `nd GP provision, on which of thosd

:27:31. > :27:36.services with the acts have had to fall if we had followed Labour's

:27:37. > :27:42.spending plans? Since the 2010 general election we have lost over

:27:43. > :27:47.1.5 thousand mental health beds and there are over 400 fewer doctors

:27:48. > :27:54.working in mental health. The pledge that the Secretary of State made at

:27:55. > :27:59.that dispatch box that everx GC would increase their spend on mental

:28:00. > :28:04.health lies in tatters. When will his rhetoric be matched with

:28:05. > :28:08.adequate resources? I will tell her where that rhetoric has become

:28:09. > :28:13.reality. We have the highest dementia diagnosis rates in the

:28:14. > :28:18.world. We are treating thred quarters of a million more people

:28:19. > :28:23.with talking every year. We are in every single day 400 more mdntal

:28:24. > :28:27.health patients. By the end of this parliament because of our spending

:28:28. > :28:31.plans we will be spending a billion more on mental health every single

:28:32. > :28:37.year, treating a million more people. I think that is pretty good.

:28:38. > :28:44.One of the ways to help the NHS deal with its financial pressures is

:28:45. > :28:47.using proper data, and as Professor Briggs is doing, which is ilproving

:28:48. > :28:52.patient outcomes and saving the NHS money. I would like to thank my

:28:53. > :28:57.honourable friend for bringhng Professor Briggs to meet me and stop

:28:58. > :29:02.he has identified that everx time you have an infection in an

:29:03. > :29:07.orthopaedic operation, it costs the NHS ?100,000 to put it right. Yet we

:29:08. > :29:11.have some surgeons were that is happening half a percent of the time

:29:12. > :29:17.and others where it is happdning 4% of the time. Dealing with these

:29:18. > :29:23.variations will reduce costs and avoid enormous human heartache. In

:29:24. > :29:27.Manchester it is clear that the pressures in the NHS are a function

:29:28. > :29:31.of pressures in the social care system and costs are rising because

:29:32. > :29:35.of the increase in the national living wage and the need to find

:29:36. > :29:41.overnight covered. What is the Secretary of State is doing to

:29:42. > :29:47.address those pressures? He is simply scratching the surface. I

:29:48. > :29:51.agree that there are real pressures, but many in this house were worried

:29:52. > :29:56.about some of the poor workhng conditions of people working in the

:29:57. > :30:00.social care system. 900,000 people on low pay and they will benefit

:30:01. > :30:04.from the introduction of thd national living wage, but she is

:30:05. > :30:07.right, leaving people part hn hospitals who should be being looked

:30:08. > :30:11.after in the community is financially nonsense. That hs why

:30:12. > :30:17.what is happening in Greater Manchester is one of the most

:30:18. > :30:21.impressive examples of integration of social health care into the

:30:22. > :30:26.community. We should be protd of this government's record on funding,

:30:27. > :30:32.but taking the right strategic decisions is also important. It is

:30:33. > :30:50.Conservative led government with a Conservative Health Secretary the

:30:51. > :30:57.all of the A So what is important, item you can takd credit

:30:58. > :31:04.for it. And before the commhttee on eight occasions so far. We have a

:31:05. > :31:10.detailed look at you. I welcome the health committee's look at this

:31:11. > :31:21.issue. Prevention is better than cure. The GP five-year forw`rd

:31:22. > :31:26.review and money before 2020. Can this crucial investment in primary

:31:27. > :31:32.care will be protected and not used to a hospital deficit? It is a

:31:33. > :31:37.vitally important investment. The first speech I gave after the last

:31:38. > :31:43.election was to GPs and we talked about how we want to have an extra

:31:44. > :31:46.5000 GPs and that is vital to eliminate these hospital deficit and

:31:47. > :31:53.we are making good progress in doing so. In funding the NHS for xou, the

:31:54. > :31:58.treatment of patients in thdir homes is not about cost-cutting, but is

:31:59. > :32:04.part of a radical change in health provision for the future we fight

:32:05. > :32:09.finishers? Absolutely. The simple principle for those of us who are

:32:10. > :32:15.not adopted if it is much cheaper to make them the slip in by and to wait

:32:16. > :32:20.until progress. Treating people as one for two of cancer is chdap, and

:32:21. > :32:25.it would to a fuel and that is the whole foundation of the str`tegic

:32:26. > :32:31.change and are making in thd NHS. My constituents in Wallasey, w`tching

:32:32. > :32:36.this, we'll think the Secretary of State is living in a paralldl

:32:37. > :32:39.universe. The sustainabilitx and transformation programme in

:32:40. > :32:43.Merseyside that is reputed to be tackling a ?1 billion deficht and

:32:44. > :32:49.the way it has decided to t`ckle this in Wirral is to develop plans

:32:50. > :32:55.to close the cancer hospital, to close the Acute Hospital, to close

:32:56. > :33:07.the Countess of Chester and to create new hospital sometimd in the

:33:08. > :33:14.in Ellesmere Port. I do not recognise the plans she is talking

:33:15. > :33:18.about. But what I would say to her we need to change our service

:33:19. > :33:23.provision. We are dealing whth many more older people. Her constituents

:33:24. > :33:31.in Wallasey need better card at home than they are currently getting

:33:32. > :33:34.Changes will be subject to ` proper consultation and would go bdfore the

:33:35. > :33:43.Independent reconfiguration panel and would end up on my desk. Setting

:33:44. > :33:46.her face against all changes may be, that was that of Western, sdtting

:33:47. > :33:53.her face against all changes might not be the right way for a

:33:54. > :33:57.constituents. Patients get better in a cosy environment in community

:33:58. > :34:00.hospitals and can you give le an assurance that he will laugh and

:34:01. > :34:07.maintain them for as long as he is in the job that he is doing? A

:34:08. > :34:11.better job of loving their community hospitals in the honourable

:34:12. > :34:18.gentleman. They have an important role. I have the ones in my

:34:19. > :34:23.constituency. They at best represent the change we need to see in the

:34:24. > :34:27.NHS, which is personalised care closer to home. But that me`ns

:34:28. > :34:33.sometimes they need to change the way they deliver services whthin a

:34:34. > :34:37.building even if the NHS logo remains of the side of the building.

:34:38. > :34:44.I was proud to sign the cross-party letter to the Council on NHS funding

:34:45. > :34:47.in which we quote the Care Puality Commission that said adult social

:34:48. > :34:53.care is at a tipping point `nd it is having an impact on those who rely

:34:54. > :34:57.on it and the performance of the NHS. Does the Secretary of State

:34:58. > :35:03.recognised it was a false economy to cut social care funding by over a

:35:04. > :35:06.third? There will still be ` gap in social care funding even if all

:35:07. > :35:11.councils take up the precept? As long as we have that, as long as we

:35:12. > :35:16.have a deficit, we will need to transfer patients? I recognhse the

:35:17. > :35:21.pressures in the social card system, but in an era of very constrained

:35:22. > :35:27.national finances, funding for the social care system is going up by

:35:28. > :35:32.?3.5 billion a year, which hs a significant and important rhse. It

:35:33. > :35:35.is this government that set the quality care commission fred to tell

:35:36. > :35:40.us the honest truth about the quality of care in our hosphtals,

:35:41. > :35:44.our GP surgeries and our social care system and it is because of that

:35:45. > :35:49.that we are able to have thd kind of questions and answers we have today.

:35:50. > :35:55.This government has shown its commitment to the NHS, promhsing and

:35:56. > :36:01.delivering increases in funding unlike the parties opposite. My

:36:02. > :36:05.right honourable recognises the connection between health and social

:36:06. > :36:12.and is driving integration of those two area. Can I urge him to continue

:36:13. > :36:17.looking at both the funding and the performance of health and social in

:36:18. > :36:23.question I congratulate her on the excellent question and I sax I

:36:24. > :36:27.absolutely agree with her. She worked in health care beford she

:36:28. > :36:31.came to this house and the links between the health and soci`l care

:36:32. > :36:34.system will be vital to nurture if we are going to deal with some of

:36:35. > :36:39.the issues that concern people on all sides of this house. Thdre are

:36:40. > :36:43.some very good examples of where it is working well, but it is not

:36:44. > :36:49.happening in as many areas `s it needs to. We need to focus on this.

:36:50. > :36:54.The Secretary of State was hn Cambridge on Friday and I wonder if

:36:55. > :36:59.he noticed that at Addenbrooke's Hospital the number of over 85 is

:37:00. > :37:04.coming into A has risen bx almost 12% year on year and on Friday there

:37:05. > :37:09.were 100/80 fives in that hospital who should have been in the

:37:10. > :37:13.community. Is that not provdd perfect of the failure of this

:37:14. > :37:17.government's policies on social care which either root cause of the

:37:18. > :37:21.problems in the NHS? If he hs looking at the record of thhs

:37:22. > :37:27.government, we have got 1200 more doctors in our A departments who

:37:28. > :37:33.are treating with two hours 250 more people every day and wd are

:37:34. > :37:35.putting more money into the NHS and the social care system.

:37:36. > :37:40.Addenbrooke's Hospital is under great pressure, but determined to

:37:41. > :37:47.come out on special measures and all the staff, and I enjoyed medting on

:37:48. > :37:54.Friday, and budget to beef tp its levels. The Secretary of St`te knows

:37:55. > :37:59.more than 50% of the deficit at my local hospital in Sherwood Forest

:38:00. > :38:04.and 25% of their annual revdnue goes in paying off their PFI Immhngham.

:38:05. > :38:08.With the Secretary of State look again at my trust and others and to

:38:09. > :38:16.remind the House which partx left this toxic legacy for my

:38:17. > :38:21.constituents? I am happy to remind the House, as my honourable friend

:38:22. > :38:27.requests, that this was somdthing we inherited from the party opposite in

:38:28. > :38:32.2010. It is indeed a toxic legacy, but despite that legacy, thd people

:38:33. > :38:36.working in Sherwood Forest Hospital have done an incredible job of

:38:37. > :38:41.turning that trust around shnce they were put into special measures a few

:38:42. > :38:45.years ago. I want to commend them for the progress they have lade and

:38:46. > :38:46.I hope it will bear fruit and soon they will come out on speci`l

:38:47. > :38:54.measures. I would like to conclude thdse

:38:55. > :38:57.exchanges by 4:30pm, so if people are taking a long time they are

:38:58. > :39:02.stopping their colleagues contributing, as simple as that Can

:39:03. > :39:05.I ask the Secretary of Statd whether he believes there is a need for

:39:06. > :39:11.additional funding for adult social care over and above what has already

:39:12. > :39:16.been allocated? We are putthng extra money into adult social card and

:39:17. > :39:18.local authorities have the `bility through the new precepts to increase

:39:19. > :39:23.their own funding the adult social care. Of course in an ideal world

:39:24. > :39:28.everyone would like more money to go into the NHS and social card system.

:39:29. > :39:32.But what we know on this side of the house is that it is a strong economy

:39:33. > :39:35.that powers those systems, `nd that we can only increase our budget at

:39:36. > :39:40.the rate the economy can afford and I think the last six years shows

:39:41. > :39:43.that if you take care of thd economy you can increase the NHS and social

:39:44. > :39:49.care budget and that's what we doing. Is it not the case that there

:39:50. > :39:55.will never ever be enough money to go into the NHS when actually the

:39:56. > :39:59.case is looked at? But doesn't he find, as I do, utterly nausdating

:40:00. > :40:07.the sanctimonious finger wagging from the front bench opposite when

:40:08. > :40:11.Wyn Jones in Wales said thex would make a cut of 8% in Wales on their

:40:12. > :40:22.NHS and that is the legacy of labour. That is absolutely the

:40:23. > :40:26.point. In more ways than ond. If you look at the situation in Wales where

:40:27. > :40:34.people wait twice as long to have a hip replaced, where A is `bout 10%

:40:35. > :40:38.lower than in England, you see the consequences of patients in Wales

:40:39. > :40:40.are horrific and that is whx I think everyone watching today's exchanges

:40:41. > :40:47.will take it with a big pinch of salt. The health select comlittee is

:40:48. > :40:51.quite clear of the actual ?4.5 billion being spent by the

:40:52. > :40:55.government to increase funds, nor the 8 billion or the 10 billion that

:40:56. > :40:59.the Secretary of State said, that 4.5 billion, 3.5 billion coles from

:41:00. > :41:04.cuts to public health and education and training. The Secretary of State

:41:05. > :41:09.can twist all he likes, he has been found out and every health sector

:41:10. > :41:15.worker in this country has hs never to a tee. We know exactly what he is

:41:16. > :41:19.doing. I just don't agree whth the honourable gentleman, and I simply

:41:20. > :41:23.say this. I stand by the nulbers. I'm afraid I do think on thhs

:41:24. > :41:27.occasion the select committde got the numbers wrong and the 10 billion

:41:28. > :41:31.figure wasn't a figure, it was a figure that the NHS said thdy

:41:32. > :41:34.needed, in fact they needed less than 10 billion, and we are

:41:35. > :41:40.delivering more than they asked for and that is something his p`rty

:41:41. > :41:42.wasn't prepared to do. I know the Secretary of State has taken an

:41:43. > :41:47.interest in the relative and sparsity that hospitals in

:41:48. > :41:50.Lincolnshire are wrestling with Can he can firm -- confirm becatse this

:41:51. > :41:54.government is spending half ?1 trillion on the NHS over thd course

:41:55. > :41:59.of this Parliament that workers and patients at hospitals like the

:42:00. > :42:04.programme can be confident hn that hospital's future? I think `ll NHS

:42:05. > :42:08.facilities in his constituency and across the country can be vdry

:42:09. > :42:12.confident the NHS is a very bright future, and when it comes to bore

:42:13. > :42:15.rule and revert places, if we are going to deliver the NHS pl`n those

:42:16. > :42:19.are precisely the areas we need to pay most attention at keeping people

:42:20. > :42:25.healthy and well in their homes That is why not just immunity

:42:26. > :42:28.hospitals but also GP surgeries and other places in which rule

:42:29. > :42:34.communities depend have a vhtally important part in the NHS 's future.

:42:35. > :42:37.The Secretary of State will know I wrote to him over the summer because

:42:38. > :42:40.Admiral Stoke we had trollexs bumper-to-bumper in hospital

:42:41. > :42:44.corridors and not in midwinter but in high summer. Since then we have

:42:45. > :42:49.had more hospital bed closures and cottage hospitals. Can I repeat the

:42:50. > :42:53.invitation and ask the Secrdtary of State to come to Stoke-on-Trent see

:42:54. > :42:58.for himself the crisis in the funding settlement hitting those of

:42:59. > :43:03.the most chronic health conditions? I am very happy to visit his

:43:04. > :43:09.hospital I have been concerned about it for some time. It has bedn

:43:10. > :43:11.particularly vocal in the w`ke of what in neighbouring Mid St`ffs I

:43:12. > :43:17.know the staff in that with my right honourable frhend

:43:18. > :43:24.agree that it is not simply the amount of money

:43:25. > :43:28.spent by the government on ht but a range of factors, including how it

:43:29. > :43:35.is bent, regulation, educathon and individuals choices? I absolutely

:43:36. > :43:39.agree with that. I think thhs house should be very proud that according

:43:40. > :43:44.to the UN, when it comes to public health, this is the fifth hdalthiest

:43:45. > :43:49.country on the planet to live in, after Iceland, Andorra, Singapore

:43:50. > :43:53.and Sweden, if my memory serves so that is what we want to continue. A

:43:54. > :43:58.lot of figures have been banded about today for. For the record

:43:59. > :44:02.when Labour inherited officd in 1997, the amount of money spent on

:44:03. > :44:10.the National Health Service was 33 billion. By the time we left office

:44:11. > :44:17.in 2010, 13 years, it had gone up to 100 billion. It's an easy fhgure to

:44:18. > :44:23.calculate. Three times more in real terms, and contrast that with the

:44:24. > :44:29.honourable gentleman, the Sdcretary of State for Health, who is coming

:44:30. > :44:34.here today, fiddling figures and shutting belt over hospitals. I

:44:35. > :44:39.gently say to him that if hd thinks his party were so right to hncrease

:44:40. > :44:42.funding in Labour's time in office, and I think they were right, then he

:44:43. > :44:47.should support this party when we are increasing NHS funding by three

:44:48. > :44:54.times more than his own party are promising. It is clear to md that

:44:55. > :44:56.the NHS cannot rely solely on the government to achieve financial

:44:57. > :45:01.sustainability, nor should ht be used by some as a political

:45:02. > :45:03.football. Would my right honourable friend agree that there is

:45:04. > :45:09.responsibility on all NHS stakeholders to work togethdr to cut

:45:10. > :45:13.waste where it exists and to work together for long term sust`inable

:45:14. > :45:17.social care programme? She hs absolutely right, and that hs why we

:45:18. > :45:21.do need to make difficult efficiency savings, around 22 billion, during

:45:22. > :45:25.the course of this Parliament. We made about 18 or ?19 billion of

:45:26. > :45:31.savings in the last parliamdnt so I think it is doable. If things are as

:45:32. > :45:35.rosy as the Secretary of St`te is making outcome why is the London

:45:36. > :45:40.Borough of Redbridge sufferhng from public health cuts and in addition

:45:41. > :45:44.to that even whilst charging the social care precept still bding

:45:45. > :45:47.unable to barely cover the costs of wage increases, let alone ilproving

:45:48. > :45:52.the service will stop he should have been lobbying the Chief Secretary

:45:53. > :45:55.this afternoon not painting this ridiculously unjustifiable rosy

:45:56. > :45:59.picture. I don't think he w`s listening to my statement, which

:46:00. > :46:02.said very clearly the NHS is under unbelievable pressure. But what I

:46:03. > :46:05.would say to him is that it doesn't really work for the Labour Party to

:46:06. > :46:08.campaign for increases in the minimum wage that we read about

:46:09. > :46:13.today and then to criticise the increasing costs in the adult social

:46:14. > :46:19.care system caused by the n`tional living wage introduced by this

:46:20. > :46:23.government. Will the Secret`ry of State look at splitting Huddersfield

:46:24. > :46:27.and Calderdale NHS Trust so that the disastrous PFI deal at Halifax where

:46:28. > :46:32.we will pay ?700 million for a hospital that costs ?64 million so

:46:33. > :46:36.it will stop dictating the closure and downgrade of services at

:46:37. > :46:40.Huddersfield? I salute my honourable friend for the campaign he hs

:46:41. > :46:44.leading at the moment, standing up for his own constituents. Hd is

:46:45. > :46:51.right to point the PFI is one of the principal causes and we now have to

:46:52. > :46:54.find a way to deal with that issue. That improves and doesn't attract

:46:55. > :47:00.from the quality of care offered to the people he represents. According

:47:01. > :47:04.to Sir Richard Sykes, the problem with funding, we are killing NHS

:47:05. > :47:08.staff by working them 18 hotrs a day and may not in a position to close

:47:09. > :47:13.any more A in north-west London because there is not the capacity to

:47:14. > :47:18.do so, so how is the NHS in north-west London supposed to save

:47:19. > :47:22.1.3 billion over the four ydars as is proposed? The best where they

:47:23. > :47:25.could do it is by ignoring `ll the leaflets the honourable gentleman

:47:26. > :47:26.puts out, totally misleading his own constituents about the plans the NHS

:47:27. > :47:43.has. I did not hear the offending term,

:47:44. > :47:46.but if it has been reported to me accurately at the clerks ard

:47:47. > :47:53.invariably accurate, it seels to me to be a matter of taste rather than

:47:54. > :47:56.of order. I think it is regrettable that the chair of the select

:47:57. > :47:59.committee has led this attack on the government was doing so well. Can my

:48:00. > :48:03.right honourable friend tell me what more is being done to recoup the

:48:04. > :48:10.money that should have been clawed back from those health insurers not

:48:11. > :48:13.using system? She is right `bout that out, the years and the previous

:48:14. > :48:17.government there was total resistance anywhere in the NHS to

:48:18. > :48:22.making sure that the only that received Carefree are peopld paying

:48:23. > :48:26.for the NHS through the taxds they pay. That is something we are

:48:27. > :48:30.putting a stop to, much mord work to be done, but we have the second

:48:31. > :48:33.biggest aid budget of the world That's the way we help developing

:48:34. > :48:38.countries, but we can't havd an international health servicd. NHS

:48:39. > :48:41.Trust deficit is another worse they have ever been with 85% of `cute

:48:42. > :48:46.hospitals unable to balance their books. But this situation whll be

:48:47. > :48:50.made even worse as the fallhng value of the pound raises the cost of

:48:51. > :48:54.imported medicines and equipment. What assessment has he made of the

:48:55. > :48:59.extra funding needed to protect the NHS from the devaluation of sterling

:49:00. > :49:03.following the Brexit vote, `nd what will he do to support trusts like

:49:04. > :49:09.Nottingham University hospital trust, that is already in ddficit?

:49:10. > :49:15.There are indeed a number of cost pressures on the NHS but I would say

:49:16. > :49:19.to her that the NHS also has the advantage of being the single

:49:20. > :49:21.largest purchaser of health care products, equipment, medicine and

:49:22. > :49:26.the world, and therefore we have huge scope to get better prhces for

:49:27. > :49:30.those things than we currently get, and we are supporting hospitals like

:49:31. > :49:34.her one by centralising procurement, by bearing down on the cost of

:49:35. > :49:38.agency staff and locum staff, and given that pay is over 70% of the

:49:39. > :49:46.typical hospital's trust, that will help. Labour in my home are` of

:49:47. > :49:49.Wales have cut the NHS by 8$. Can my right honourable friend confirmed to

:49:50. > :49:55.this house that he will nevdr follow their example? I just say to him

:49:56. > :49:59.that it isn't just the monex they have cut, they have refused to set

:50:00. > :50:02.up an independent inspector`te of hospitals, such as we did in

:50:03. > :50:06.England, which is the sure way of knowing that we never have ` repeat

:50:07. > :50:09.of what happened at Mid Staffs. I just urge the Welsh governmdnt to

:50:10. > :50:15.think again about their approach to that. Darlington's A is along the

:50:16. > :50:21.one in three marked the closure or downgrading. In his opening response

:50:22. > :50:25.he said he did not accept that figure of one in three, so how many

:50:26. > :50:31.are going to be downgraded or doesn't he know? These plans come up

:50:32. > :50:36.from local areas but what I would say to the honourable lady hs that

:50:37. > :50:39.the NHS is not projecting that we are going to have significant

:50:40. > :50:43.reductions in the need for dmergency care over the next few years, so

:50:44. > :50:47.what matters is to make surd coming yes people can get to and A nearby

:50:48. > :50:53.them, but also when they get there they get the right care, thd bright

:50:54. > :50:57.expert care and that is what local areas are working on. In my

:50:58. > :51:01.constituency, a nurse led practitioner service has bedn closed

:51:02. > :51:07.due to lack of resources. Stroke rehab has been cut similar because

:51:08. > :51:10.of lack of resources. Our A are not meeting waiting times and are

:51:11. > :51:13.now under threat because thdir orthopaedic services are behng

:51:14. > :51:18.privatised and handed out to Circle, who may not contract back whth their

:51:19. > :51:24.local health care trust, undermining the capacity to contain those A Es.

:51:25. > :51:27.Does he accept responsibility for any of that? In his part of the

:51:28. > :51:32.country as in other parts of the country we have more doctors, more

:51:33. > :51:35.nurses, more operations than when his party left office. I am

:51:36. > :51:39.particularly concerned the government is cutting supplx in

:51:40. > :51:42.public health to create dem`nd for a private health care market, so we

:51:43. > :51:46.will have a two tier system like they have in the States. I was very

:51:47. > :51:50.concerned of the vague response he gave for my colleague and mdmber for

:51:51. > :51:53.Wallasey. Could he guaranted that there will be no closures of Arrow

:51:54. > :51:59.Park hospital, Platt Bridge hospital or the counties of Chester? With

:52:00. > :52:03.respect to local service provision, these things are decided locally but

:52:04. > :52:08.what I would say to her, if she wants to dig up the old chestnut of

:52:09. > :52:12.the privatisation of the NHS, that it increased the outsourcing of

:52:13. > :52:15.services to the private sector increased much faster under her

:52:16. > :52:20.government than this governlent and if we did have those kind of malign

:52:21. > :52:23.motives for the NHS, increasing its budget by ?10 billion over the

:52:24. > :52:26.course of this Parliament, increasing doctor training by one of

:52:27. > :52:33.the biggest increases in its history would be a strange way of going

:52:34. > :52:36.about it. Statement, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions,

:52:37. > :52:40.secretary Damian Green. With permission, I would like to make a

:52:41. > :52:42.statement on the green paper published today by my department

:52:43. > :52:47.together with the Department of Health. This government is

:52:48. > :52:50.determined to build a country that works for everyone, an economy that

:52:51. > :52:55.serves the interests of ordhnary working people, a society where

:52:56. > :52:59.everyone has an opportunity to go as far as their talents can take them,

:53:00. > :53:03.regardless of their backgrotnd. And as part of that, it means creating a

:53:04. > :53:08.country where a disability does not dictate the path a person is able to

:53:09. > :53:11.take in life. Under successhve governments, we have made good

:53:12. > :53:16.progress in improving the lhves of disabled people. Laws have been

:53:17. > :53:21.changed, old attitudes challenged, understanding has improved. Now

:53:22. > :53:24.disabled people are in work. Half a million more than just thred years

:53:25. > :53:28.ago. That is encouraging but we need to build on that progress and do

:53:29. > :53:32.more to help disabled peopld reach their full potential. It's clear

:53:33. > :53:34.that for many disabled people, the barriers to entry work are still too

:53:35. > :53:46.high. The impact extends far beyond the

:53:47. > :54:17.individual. It is the help for those who could

:54:18. > :54:23.that through this green papdr we will transform. First, withhn the

:54:24. > :54:27.welfare system. In 2010 we hnherited a broken system, is system where

:54:28. > :54:32.there were too few incentivds to move from welfare to work and one

:54:33. > :54:37.were to many of our fellow citizens were simply taken off the books and

:54:38. > :54:41.forgotten about. Since then we brought control and the right values

:54:42. > :54:47.back to the system. I want to recognise my predecessors,

:54:48. > :54:51.particularly the member for Chingford and Woodford Green, for

:54:52. > :54:56.his passion to make that a reality. We have ensured were always as

:54:57. > :55:00.through reforms and Univers`l Credit while ensuring a strong safdty net

:55:01. > :55:06.for those who cannot work. Spending on disabled people will be higher

:55:07. > :55:10.every year of this Parliament and it was in 2010, but we need to continue

:55:11. > :55:17.to review and reform the system based on what we know works. One of

:55:18. > :55:19.those areas is the level of personalised and tailored stpport

:55:20. > :55:24.someone gets when they fall out of work. Half the people who attended a

:55:25. > :55:28.work capability assessment hn the last pumas were deemed too hll to

:55:29. > :55:36.prepare for work and they routinely is received no employment stpport at

:55:37. > :55:41.all. Each month only 1% of people eligible for employment and support

:55:42. > :55:44.allowance after assessment leave. For a benefit that was made to help

:55:45. > :55:48.people back into work, the statistics show it is not lhving up

:55:49. > :55:53.to its original game and we will build on the success of Universal

:55:54. > :55:56.Credit and provide more personalised employment support by consulting on

:55:57. > :56:02.further reform of the work capability assessment. We whll

:56:03. > :56:06.introduce a new personal support package for disabled people,

:56:07. > :56:11.providing better tailored stpport, including a new health and work

:56:12. > :56:17.conversation focusing on wh`t they can do rather than what thex can't

:56:18. > :56:20.do without coach. We will rdcruit around 200 community partners into

:56:21. > :56:25.job centres to bring in expdrtise from the voluntary sector. We will

:56:26. > :56:29.give young people with limited capability for work and opportunity

:56:30. > :56:36.to get valuable experience from employers. These are practical steps

:56:37. > :56:40.and support the welfare system to provide for disabled people. This

:56:41. > :56:45.green paper marks a new era in joint working between the welfare and

:56:46. > :56:48.health systems, between the Department for Work and Pensions and

:56:49. > :56:52.the Department of Health. It is about recognising that workdd and

:56:53. > :56:57.meaningful activity can provoke good health, so we will work with health

:56:58. > :56:59.education England, Public Hdalth England and others to make the

:57:00. > :57:06.benefits of work and ingrained part of the approach. We will review

:57:07. > :57:12.statutory sick pay and GP fht notes to support workers back into their

:57:13. > :57:15.jobs faster and for longer. It is also about transforming the way

:57:16. > :57:19.services join up and we will be consulting on how best to do this as

:57:20. > :57:25.well as boosting existing joint services. We are more than doubling

:57:26. > :57:28.the number of employment advisers placed in talking therapy sdrvices.

:57:29. > :57:34.It is right we focus in on services like these as mental health

:57:35. > :57:40.conditions, together with musculoskeletal conditions, are

:57:41. > :57:44.behind people falling out of work. Finally, I want to turn to the role

:57:45. > :57:49.of employers. They have so luch potential power to bring about

:57:50. > :57:53.change, not just in their recruitment strategies, but in how

:57:54. > :57:57.they support their employees. We need all businesses, small or large,

:57:58. > :58:03.local or national or global to deliver that change. As well as

:58:04. > :58:10.being good for health, it m`kes good business sense as well. Sick pay

:58:11. > :58:13.costs business ?9 billion a year. Businesses are leaders in innovation

:58:14. > :58:16.and transformation and we nded to harness that positive power of

:58:17. > :58:21.business to promote disabilhty awareness. We will create a

:58:22. > :58:25.disability confident business leaders group to increase elployer

:58:26. > :58:29.engagement in looking after their health and well-being of thdir

:58:30. > :58:33.employees and opening up opportunities to them. Now hs the

:58:34. > :58:37.moment for every business to take a proper look at the relationship

:58:38. > :58:41.between work and tell and what it means for their business and

:58:42. > :58:46.productivity. Over the coming months we will be talking with dis`bled

:58:47. > :58:50.people and those who have hdld conditions, carers, families,

:58:51. > :58:57.professionals and a range of organisations who are important to

:58:58. > :58:59.getting this right and to w`nt to see further change. To gathdr

:59:00. > :59:02.through this green paper and building on our work since 2010 we

:59:03. > :59:07.intend to deliver just that, to improve the way the welfare system

:59:08. > :59:12.response, to see employers step up and play their part, to see work as

:59:13. > :59:16.a health outcome and to see a culture of high ambition and high

:59:17. > :59:26.expectations for the disabldd people of this country because thex deserve

:59:27. > :59:29.it. Thank you, Mr Speaker. H would like to back the honourable member

:59:30. > :59:35.for his statement and advance notice of it. Mr Speaker, this is `gain

:59:36. > :59:40.kicking the issue of support for disabled people and having the

:59:41. > :59:44.disability employment gap into the long grass. This is the third

:59:45. > :59:51.Secretary of State who has promised a plan and yet we have talk and no

:59:52. > :59:54.action. The Secretary of St`te claimed he was confronting negative

:59:55. > :00:00.attitudes, prejudices and misunderstanding. The audachty of

:00:01. > :00:05.this statement is offensive. The government has been responshble for

:00:06. > :00:10.more than anything of the ndgative attitude towards disabled pdople

:00:11. > :00:15.with their shirkers narrative. They were described as sitting at home

:00:16. > :00:19.living on benefits. The consultation demonstrates the government is

:00:20. > :00:24.failing to understand the rdality of many disabled people's lives and the

:00:25. > :00:30.real anxiety they feel about the coded messages in this constltation.

:00:31. > :00:35.Yet further cuts are on the way I must challenge the Secretarx of

:00:36. > :00:39.State on his point suggesting the so-called performances of Social

:00:40. > :00:44.Security have helped make workplace. All the evidence shows that not only

:00:45. > :00:50.has the introduction of Universal Credit been an unmitigated disaster,

:00:51. > :00:55.with many expressing concerns regarding the scheme's governors and

:00:56. > :01:00.the additional ?3 billion t`xpayers have to pay, but cuts to thd work

:01:01. > :01:04.allowance has simply failed to help to make work pay. The Resolttion

:01:05. > :01:10.Foundation has shown that on average 2.5 million working families will be

:01:11. > :01:15.over ?2000 a year worse off. Would he not commit to reversing cuts to

:01:16. > :01:20.work allowances and Univers`l Credit? On the green paper he is

:01:21. > :01:26.committed to helping disabldd people into work, so why has he cut it it

:01:27. > :01:42.from 750 million down to 230 million? Will he commit to helping

:01:43. > :01:45.the 33 thousand disabled people The Secretary of State refers to a

:01:46. > :01:51.review of statutory sick pax, can he confirmed this is not a revhew for

:01:52. > :01:55.further cuts to 68? Will he maintain the levels of statutory sick pay

:01:56. > :02:02.both now and in the future? On plans to provide more professionals, will

:02:03. > :02:09.these be appropriately trained clinicians? We know under the work

:02:10. > :02:13.capability assessment this hs an underhand tactic to force pdople

:02:14. > :02:16.into work before they are rdady by weakening the role of the mddical

:02:17. > :02:22.professionals and assessment processes. Why will he not commit to

:02:23. > :02:27.scrapping the discredited process completely as I have? As it stands

:02:28. > :02:35.it is a dehumanising system which is nothing more than a vehicle for

:02:36. > :02:40.getting people of loan. Will he describe what his intentions are in

:02:41. > :02:44.relation to PIP and how this funding is meant to underpin the work and

:02:45. > :02:49.health programme? Will the honourable gentleman commit to

:02:50. > :02:55.reversing the support which will do untold harm? Does the minister

:02:56. > :02:59.accept his own data which shows that people are more likely to dhe than

:03:00. > :03:03.the population at large and that some sick and disabled people will

:03:04. > :03:10.never be able to work and whll he commit to reverse the caps `s I have

:03:11. > :03:14.just mentioned? We must enstre they are adequately supported as a

:03:15. > :03:19.civilised society and they `re not plunged into poverty, left destitute

:03:20. > :03:29.or worse. I am disappointed in the tone taken by the honourabld lady. I

:03:30. > :03:32.am disappointed because she seems completely out of touch with those

:03:33. > :03:39.who represent disabled people. Let me read the words of the chhef

:03:40. > :03:43.executive of Scope, Mark Atkinson. Disabled people are twice as likely

:03:44. > :03:47.to be unemployed, it is right the government has recognised this as an

:03:48. > :03:51.injustice that needs to be tackled. We welcome the publication of the

:03:52. > :03:55.green paper which recognises the need for real change and sets out

:03:56. > :04:02.some bold ideas for reform. Arthritis research UK, todax's green

:04:03. > :04:07.paper offers a vital opporttnity to better understand and meet the needs

:04:08. > :04:11.of people with arthritis. Or the work foundation who said, wd have

:04:12. > :04:16.consistently advocated that good work and the benefits it brhngs to

:04:17. > :04:19.individuals, employers and society at large should be recognisdd as a

:04:20. > :04:26.positive outcome from a health perspective. I am afraid her carping

:04:27. > :04:31.at this is out of touch with the sector who most represent dhsabled

:04:32. > :04:35.people. Let me deal with sole of the details. She has repeated hdr

:04:36. > :04:39.promise to scrap any kind of assessment system at all for people

:04:40. > :04:45.getting benefits. I want to quote from one of my predecessors who said

:04:46. > :04:50.when the WC I was introduced, we want to have a welfare systdm were

:04:51. > :04:54.virtually everyone who is gdtting benefits is doing something to

:04:55. > :04:58.prepare for a return to work. The benefits system is not therd for

:04:59. > :05:03.people to stay on benefits, but to help them get back into work. I

:05:04. > :05:09.agree with that. That was s`id by the Labour Work and Pensions

:05:10. > :05:14.Secretary, James Purnell, in 20 8, introducing the work capability

:05:15. > :05:20.assessment. She is again out of touch. She talked a lot abott

:05:21. > :05:26.Universal Credit and described it as a failure. Let me give her the facts

:05:27. > :05:30.about Universal Credit. Unddr it people spend around 50% mord time

:05:31. > :05:37.looking for work. They moved into work faster. For every 100 people

:05:38. > :05:41.who found work under the old system, 113 Universal Credit claimants have

:05:42. > :05:47.moved into a job. They are lore likely to be looking to increase

:05:48. > :05:52.their hours. 86% on Univers`l Credit, compared to 38% on

:05:53. > :05:57.jobseeker's allowance. They are more likely to be looking to increase

:05:58. > :06:03.their earnings, 77% on Univdrsal Credit, compared to 51% on

:06:04. > :06:06.jobseeker's allowance. All this shouting from a sedentary position

:06:07. > :06:10.and the honourable lady is wrong about the effects of Universal

:06:11. > :06:15.Credit. She asked me to makd commitments about access to work and

:06:16. > :06:23.real terms increase in fundhng supports an additional 25,000 people

:06:24. > :06:30.each year and last year helped over 36,000 people to take up or remain

:06:31. > :06:34.in employment, including 2800 young people who had been helped last

:06:35. > :06:40.year. Access to work is doing very well for tens of thousands of people

:06:41. > :06:45.with disabilities. She will also, I hope, welcome our personal support

:06:46. > :06:50.package, which includes recruiting around 200 partners to bring in

:06:51. > :06:55.expertise from the voluntarx sector. One of the key things about this

:06:56. > :06:58.green paper is we will work closely with the voluntary sector and use

:06:59. > :07:07.their expertise to help people with a disability. She also talkdd about

:07:08. > :07:13.forcing people into work. I hope that underneath some of her rhetoric

:07:14. > :07:16.she does recognise the fact that now is increasingly recognised by

:07:17. > :07:20.clinicians and medical practitioners, that a good job is

:07:21. > :07:27.good for people's health and forcing people into work is the wrong,. I

:07:28. > :07:32.genuinely hope she has moved on for that. She asks about statutory sick

:07:33. > :07:39.pay and there is nothing in this green paper about cutting statutory

:07:40. > :07:47.sick pay. Make it easier to help people back into work, so they can

:07:48. > :07:54.take a few hours' work in the early days. The purpose of changes in the

:07:55. > :08:03.fit note are to make it useful so it can be given by properly qu`lified

:08:04. > :08:06.medical practitioner and it will guide them into a system th`t will

:08:07. > :08:10.be able to help them get back to work because in the long rant that

:08:11. > :08:16.is the best way to improve their lives -- in the long run, and that

:08:17. > :08:20.is what this green paper is about. Can I welcome the right honourable

:08:21. > :08:25.gentleman's statement and it builds very much on the work that has gone

:08:26. > :08:31.on before. Can I say there `re two issues that I hope during the course

:08:32. > :08:36.of this consultation he will take into consideration. One of the areas

:08:37. > :08:40.that has caused the greatest difficulty has been the bin`ry

:08:41. > :08:44.choice that lies at the heart of its design where you were either too

:08:45. > :08:49.sick to work, or you should work. We know that in many cases that

:08:50. > :08:53.condition can vary. Now that Universal Credit is rolling out and

:08:54. > :08:58.this is part of it, would hd look to see whether it is feasible to move

:08:59. > :09:06.away from that binary choicd, so that if they do move into work, that

:09:07. > :09:09.extra allowance will be takdn away? As Universal Credit is crithcal to

:09:10. > :09:14.this, I wonder if he will look at the work allowances as some need to

:09:15. > :09:21.be increased to their original levels?

:09:22. > :09:29.I'm grateful for the support from my Right Honourable Friend. He's right

:09:30. > :09:35.about the binary choice that has pertained up until now under ESA and

:09:36. > :09:37.another Universal Credit system which he introduced, we now have the

:09:38. > :09:42.capacity within a welfare sxstem to be much more flexible in our

:09:43. > :09:45.approach, and that is precisely what the changes to the work cap`bility

:09:46. > :09:51.assessment are designed to `chieve, so that people are not simply put in

:09:52. > :09:55.one group or another and thdn left there, that actually, there will be

:09:56. > :10:00.a much more personalised approach that will mean that everyond should

:10:01. > :10:06.benefit from the assessment and we separate out the idea of thd level

:10:07. > :10:11.of benefit people should get from the level of support that they need

:10:12. > :10:17.to make the best of their lhves On the issue of reversing prevhous

:10:18. > :10:25.changes in allowances, we h`ve no plans to do that. Can I thank the

:10:26. > :10:29.Secretary of State for advanced sight of his statement? I'm glad

:10:30. > :10:32.that at last this long awaited green paper has been published and I

:10:33. > :10:36.welcome the government commhtment to reform and to consult more widely

:10:37. > :10:40.with disabled people, carers and those who represent them. Wd'll work

:10:41. > :10:46.constructively with all parties but we need actions, not just words The

:10:47. > :10:48.burden of a already has fallen on sick and disabled people in recent

:10:49. > :10:55.years causing severe hardshhp and pushed many people further `way from

:10:56. > :11:00.the workplace. Sick and dis`bled people have been disproporthonately

:11:01. > :11:05.hit by the bedroom tax. Thotsands of sick and disabled people have lost

:11:06. > :11:08.their Motability vehicles, hn many cases their only means of gdtting to

:11:09. > :11:11.and from work and from next April, sick and disabled people with

:11:12. > :11:14.long-term conditions will bd deterred from going back to work

:11:15. > :11:18.because if they do and they have a relapse and have to go back on the

:11:19. > :11:22.ESA, they will find their income cut by ?30 a week. Far too many people

:11:23. > :11:26.are manifestly too sick to work and are still being found fit for work.

:11:27. > :11:30.Earlier this year, the government cut the budget for its work

:11:31. > :11:35.programme from ?2 billion down to ?130 million. Given its performance

:11:36. > :11:38.I can understand why, but wd know from more successful schemes to

:11:39. > :11:44.support disabled people into work, schemes like access to work, and

:11:45. > :11:48.voluntary sector initiatives that tailored personalised support does

:11:49. > :11:51.not come cheap. What additional budget does the Secretary of State

:11:52. > :11:53.envisage will be attached to the government proposals, and what

:11:54. > :11:57.discussions as he had with the Treasury head of the Autumn

:11:58. > :12:03.Statement, and will there bd Barnett Consequentials for Scotland? I want

:12:04. > :12:09.to ask about support for employers. Efforts have focused on improving

:12:10. > :12:13.employers' confidence, but dmployers the concrete support to makd this

:12:14. > :12:17.work. Will there be brussels is attached to that effort this time

:12:18. > :12:22.around, and can I plead with the Secretary of State to hold of the

:12:23. > :12:28.ESA round until such time as the government has got this right? I am

:12:29. > :12:32.grateful to the honourable lady for her general welcome for the

:12:33. > :12:41.appearance of the green papdr and for her commitment to work

:12:42. > :12:45.constructively on it. My onward friend was in Scotland last week

:12:46. > :12:52.discussing with counterparts there what needs to be done, and H will be

:12:53. > :12:57.there later this week to talk to the Social Security committee. She made

:12:58. > :13:01.the point about resources. H am able to tell her that there will be

:13:02. > :13:06.additional support for new claimants with limited capability for work.

:13:07. > :13:11.There will be six ?2 million next year, rising to ?100 million a year

:13:12. > :13:18.by 2020. There will be new loney for the third sector, something like ?15

:13:19. > :13:24.billion, ?15 million, by Christmas of this year. She makes a good point

:13:25. > :13:28.about employers. I agree with her, that we need to have more than

:13:29. > :13:32.rhetoric. That is why we will be rolling out a small employer offer

:13:33. > :13:38.that will support the creathon of more job opportunities for disabled

:13:39. > :13:43.people, will provide support for employers and enable employdrs to

:13:44. > :13:48.apply for a payment of ?500 after three months employment to provide

:13:49. > :13:51.ongoing support. It is that kind of practical help for small businesses

:13:52. > :13:55.that will transform matters for very many people. We know that slall

:13:56. > :13:59.businesses are the biggest creators of jobs in this country and,

:14:00. > :14:05.absolutely, we want them to participate in being able to using

:14:06. > :14:07.this great talent pool of pdople with disabilities for unemployment

:14:08. > :14:14.is much less than those without disabilities. With pressure on time

:14:15. > :14:17.I am looking for single, short supplementary questions without

:14:18. > :14:21.preamble and fitting replies from the Secretary of State, Mr Stephen

:14:22. > :14:25.Crabb. My Honourable Friend is right to take on this challenge. Does he

:14:26. > :14:30.agree that one of the key stccesses in ending the enormous wastd of

:14:31. > :14:34.human potential is for the first time to get health services and his

:14:35. > :14:38.department working together more effectively at community level to

:14:39. > :14:43.ensure that people on long-term sickness benefits get meaningful

:14:44. > :14:48.employment support and effective help, because at the moment the

:14:49. > :14:51.system too often provides ndither? I completely agree with my Right

:14:52. > :14:58.Honourable Friend who did good work in his time in this job, as well, on

:14:59. > :15:02.this very subject. He will see in the green paper that we will be

:15:03. > :15:07.doing large-scale consultathons on precisely the big issue that he

:15:08. > :15:12.rightly gives rise to, becatse in specific areas, it is important that

:15:13. > :15:16.we get the actual way of working together of the welfare system and

:15:17. > :15:20.the health system right, and it may well be different in differdnt parts

:15:21. > :15:27.of the country, so we will be doing geographically -based large,scale

:15:28. > :15:31.trials on that. As a former Minister for Disabled People, can I welcome

:15:32. > :15:34.the invention stated in the green paper? Does he agree that the cost

:15:35. > :15:41.benefits are tremendously ilportant in helping people into work and

:15:42. > :15:45.given that matter to seize hundreds of people a week lose access to

:15:46. > :15:49.Motability cars, does he re`lise how important it is for those pdople to

:15:50. > :15:56.get to work, and have their car What's he going to do to stop people

:15:57. > :16:00.losing their right to mobilhty? Of course PIP is not a work-related

:16:01. > :16:08.benefits. It is a benefit ddsign for the extra costs of those who have a

:16:09. > :16:13.disability. And it is sensible that people go through the appropriate

:16:14. > :16:16.assessment for that. As I s`id, there are ways, I completelx agree

:16:17. > :16:21.that it is important to get access to work, that is why we are so keen

:16:22. > :16:26.on the access to work progr`mme so that there will be different ways

:16:27. > :16:30.for people to obtain access to work, and as I have explained, thd real

:16:31. > :16:35.terms funding for that will be increasing through to 2021, so I

:16:36. > :16:42.agree that it's an important issue, and we are doing something `bout it.

:16:43. > :16:46.Where someone is found fit for work on the basis of getting a ldvel of

:16:47. > :16:51.support, that needs to be p`ssed onto the system made available. That

:16:52. > :16:56.is exactly at the heart of what we are seeking to do, because there

:16:57. > :17:01.have been too many gaps in the system in the past. I think both

:17:02. > :17:06.myself and health ministers agree that we must get the system is

:17:07. > :17:09.working much better together so that individuals find the journex much

:17:10. > :17:14.more seamless than they ever have in the past. Could the Secretary of

:17:15. > :17:20.State consider more carefully the role of GPs? With the work

:17:21. > :17:25.capability assessment, we sometimes have the situation where on train

:17:26. > :17:35.people are overriding advicd from GPs. We don't want to see that in

:17:36. > :17:41.ESA and in PIP. The honourable lady makes a reasonable point. Wd want

:17:42. > :17:47.GPs to play a significant role in the system and we want them to play

:17:48. > :17:51.as constructive a role as possible, so we have looked at ways to change

:17:52. > :17:54.the system so that GPs can be involved earlier, and the

:17:55. > :18:00.consultation on the changes to the fit note is precisely to trx and

:18:01. > :18:03.find a way of making the fit note actually help the person back into

:18:04. > :18:08.work, without adding to the burden on GPs, so that everyone involved in

:18:09. > :18:15.the system feels that they `re playing a part in helping someone

:18:16. > :18:19.get back into work. Can I extend a warm welcome to this green paper,

:18:20. > :18:25.particularly because in the next hour, we are going to be latnching a

:18:26. > :18:31.report entitled the autism employment gap which shows that only

:18:32. > :18:35.16% of people on the autism spectrum are in full-time employment. It is a

:18:36. > :18:39.bigger gap than the disabilhty employment gap. Can I work Lac the

:18:40. > :18:45.personalised support he has referred to, and can he say more abott how he

:18:46. > :18:49.will tailor it to meet the individual needs, particularly, of

:18:50. > :18:53.autistic people? I am grateful to my Right Honourable Friend for her kind

:18:54. > :18:55.remarks and I would congrattlate her on the work she has done in

:18:56. > :19:01.Parliament over many years for those who are on the autism spectrum, and

:19:02. > :19:07.I am pleased to say that we have 1100 specialists in autism services,

:19:08. > :19:13.in Jobcentre Plus premises because she is quite right that we should

:19:14. > :19:18.never assume that disabled people are, in any way, homogenous. People

:19:19. > :19:21.have different needs and requirements, and she will know

:19:22. > :19:25.better than anyone that the needs of those who are on the autism spectrum

:19:26. > :19:32.are specific, and therefore need to be dealt with in a very personal and

:19:33. > :19:36.specific way. Can I tell thd Secretary of State that at ly

:19:37. > :19:40.surgery on Saturday I saw m`n who will be 59 in two weeks' tile,

:19:41. > :19:47.walking with tremendous difficulties on two crutches, who has had his

:19:48. > :19:51.Employment and Support Allowance removed. During the time I was

:19:52. > :19:57.speaking to him he broke down in such distress. What sort of position

:19:58. > :20:05.are we end that a law-abiding person of his age, suffering from

:20:06. > :20:11.disablement is in a position where he goes to his member of Parliament

:20:12. > :20:16.and is in such a state of dhstress that he starts crying? I consider it

:20:17. > :20:22.a shameful situation and thd Secretary of State should bd aware,

:20:23. > :20:26.this is one of just one of lany many cases throughout the country. I

:20:27. > :20:32.shall be writing to his dep`rtment, with what result, we shall see.

:20:33. > :20:35.Obviously if the honourable gentleman is going to write about

:20:36. > :20:40.his constituent, then pleasd do We don't want to see any wrong

:20:41. > :20:44.decisions taken. And I will happily look at the individual case but he

:20:45. > :20:48.will recognise that I can't possibly comment on that at the moment. I

:20:49. > :20:54.would say that the 1.I would take issue about is when he says that

:20:55. > :21:00.this is the tip of an iceberg. The number of successful appeals against

:21:01. > :21:04.ESA judgment has fallen significantly, from 14%, down to 5%

:21:05. > :21:10.in recent months. The figurds suggest that the system is getting

:21:11. > :21:13.better at making those judglents. For those with mental health

:21:14. > :21:18.conditions, they often requhre special with support. What hs this

:21:19. > :21:22.green paper going to do for people who suffer from mental health

:21:23. > :21:29.conditions? I think particularly those with mental health conditions

:21:30. > :21:34.will be helped by this green paper. Because it is very often people with

:21:35. > :21:37.mental health conditions who have conditions that come on and go off

:21:38. > :21:41.again, so therefore they ard able to work full time some of the time

:21:42. > :21:47.part time some of the time, and not at all some other parts of the time,

:21:48. > :21:50.so the changes to the benefhts go to the statutory sick pay, will make it

:21:51. > :21:55.much easier for those peopld to stay in touch with work and maybd do work

:21:56. > :22:01.part time after a period, and all of the evidence suggests that people

:22:02. > :22:04.with mental health conditions in particular are disadvantaged by

:22:05. > :22:10.being completely detached from the world of work, because deprdssion

:22:11. > :22:15.may get worse. I welcome thd green paper suggestion of a personal

:22:16. > :22:18.support pack which should bd an improvement on the disastrots work

:22:19. > :22:22.programme which was a total failure for disabled people. Can thd

:22:23. > :22:25.Secretary of State confirm that providers of such support whll be

:22:26. > :22:28.adequately rewarded and incdntivised to provide good enough support,

:22:29. > :22:36.because that was really the difficulty with the Work Programme.

:22:37. > :22:40.I am grateful for the honourable lady's supportive words. Shd will

:22:41. > :22:44.see that it will make a difference because the personal support package

:22:45. > :22:47.I have mentioned, 200 community partners will come in, so wd will

:22:48. > :22:53.engage the third sector verx actively in this process, btt we are

:22:54. > :22:57.also extending the journey to employment to 71 jobs plus `reas,

:22:58. > :23:03.those with the highest numbdr of people receiving ESA, so th`t trying

:23:04. > :23:08.new ideas in those areas whdre we think they will particularlx make a

:23:09. > :23:12.difference. Does my Right Honourable Friend agree that in order to

:23:13. > :23:16.utilise the talent and enrich the lives of those with disabilhties

:23:17. > :23:22.including mental health, th`t we need to make further improvdments to

:23:23. > :23:27.reduce the bureaucracy and personal employment support for individual

:23:28. > :23:30.needs? We do. On a day-to-d`y basis, all of us in our constituency work

:23:31. > :23:39.will have seen people who are frustrated by the bureaucracy, and

:23:40. > :23:43.when she and other members read the green paper, she will see that there

:23:44. > :23:48.is an emphasis on making thd system is more human and more personal so

:23:49. > :23:52.that people don't feel that they are being ground down by a diffhcult

:23:53. > :23:55.bureaucracy. It is always something that takes a long time to change

:23:56. > :24:01.but, absolutely, it is something that we want to change.

:24:02. > :24:11.The work programme has been hopeless for people claiming allowances, how

:24:12. > :24:14.much does he expect these proposals to increase the proportion of

:24:15. > :24:20.claimants getting into work and how long would it take to half the

:24:21. > :24:26.disability employment gap? H think it would be premature of me to try

:24:27. > :24:30.and set targets on either of those. The sensible thing is to take

:24:31. > :24:36.practical steps such as we `re more than doubling the number of

:24:37. > :24:41.disability employment advisdrs to help specialist and local expertise

:24:42. > :24:48.for disabled people. That whll be a significant step forward in halving

:24:49. > :24:53.the disability employment g`p. Of course it depends on both ends

:24:54. > :24:57.because it will depend on what total the employment level is, thd halving

:24:58. > :25:04.of the gap, and we are in good shape on that, we have 80% of working age

:25:05. > :25:09.people in work, 80% of thosd who do not have a disability are in work at

:25:10. > :25:14.the moment, but only 48% of those are with a disability and I want to

:25:15. > :25:18.make steady progress to halving the gap, but it will take time. With the

:25:19. > :25:28.business that can only help people work flexibly and at various times

:25:29. > :25:32.and who do not want to let their employees down? I have spokdn to a

:25:33. > :25:36.number of employers who are leading the way in providing the eqtipment

:25:37. > :25:39.that is needed to stop that more under the control of governlent is

:25:40. > :25:45.what happens inside the public sector. I hope every Whiteh`ll

:25:46. > :25:49.department will be signed up as a disability confident employdr and

:25:50. > :25:53.within the course of 2017 and the rest of the public sector whll have

:25:54. > :25:59.followed. Of course it is a very large scale employer and th`t will

:26:00. > :26:01.be very helpful. Can I suggdst there are two things he could do for

:26:02. > :26:07.people with mental health conditions now. One is to ensure that the

:26:08. > :26:14.assessors taking the tests `re properly qualified and secondly take

:26:15. > :26:16.out those who will never work and stop them going on this

:26:17. > :26:21.merry-go-round which is neither good for them nor the taxpayer. H am

:26:22. > :26:26.grateful for the expertise that the honourable gentleman brings to this

:26:27. > :26:32.and I will take both his pohse on board. His second point, I have

:26:33. > :26:36.already announced that for those who have got a condition which `lready

:26:37. > :26:41.means they cannot work and which will only stay the same get worse,

:26:42. > :26:46.we are going to stop retesthng them because that seems to me a piece of

:26:47. > :26:52.pointless and heartless burdaucracy that we can happily get rid of. Can

:26:53. > :26:58.I encouraged the Secretary of State to imply his human and fresh pair of

:26:59. > :27:02.eyes to the whole system? D`mage will be done to his good intentions

:27:03. > :27:07.if he proceeds with the cuts to the Universal Credit work allow`nces and

:27:08. > :27:13.please can he understand thd risks of proceeding with those cuts? As my

:27:14. > :27:18.honourable friend knows we have had private discussions about this and I

:27:19. > :27:23.have heard her on a number of public platforms on this as well and I can

:27:24. > :27:26.only repeat what I have said to my right honourable friend, thd member

:27:27. > :27:35.for Chingford and Woodford, that although we are not looking for new

:27:36. > :27:38.cuts in the welfare budget, welfare benefits, we have no plans to

:27:39. > :27:46.reverse anything that has already been legislated for. I welcome the

:27:47. > :27:50.green paper in its broadest sense and we can have a dialogue `bout

:27:51. > :27:55.improving the lives of disabled people. But if we can make sure that

:27:56. > :28:00.the funding is there on the table, perhaps there are two words which

:28:01. > :28:03.are missing from the statemdnt and that is compassion and dignhty and

:28:04. > :28:09.let's hope we get that in the response from the government. I

:28:10. > :28:13.completely agree with the honourable gentleman and I am grateful for his

:28:14. > :28:17.honourable support and I agree with him that the system should show

:28:18. > :28:22.compassion at all times and those who deal with the system should feel

:28:23. > :28:26.they are being dealt with whth dignity and their own dignity is

:28:27. > :28:35.being preserved. We are at one on that. I very much welcome today s

:28:36. > :28:37.announcement. The chief executive of Scope rightly highlights thd

:28:38. > :28:44.assessment should be the first step for support. Stakeholders and

:28:45. > :28:49.charities can shape future policy and deliver the experts tailored and

:28:50. > :28:55.employment support Sony did. I am grateful to the support frol my

:28:56. > :28:58.honourable friend who did excellent work when he was the Ministdr for

:28:59. > :29:05.Disabled People and I am happy to reassure him that there will be very

:29:06. > :29:10.localised services with fachlitated packs than at a local level, so that

:29:11. > :29:17.in each individual Jobcentrd and in each individual area there will be

:29:18. > :29:22.the appropriate type of support available after the assessmdnt is

:29:23. > :29:26.made. I welcome the assurances on statutory sick pay, but there are

:29:27. > :29:29.millions of people in this country who are in work and who do not

:29:30. > :29:36.qualify because they are self-employed. Will he agredd to

:29:37. > :29:42.look at implementing the relevant applications of the Dean review into

:29:43. > :29:46.self-employment? There are increasing numbers of self dmployed

:29:47. > :29:51.people and we want to make sure that they are treated as fairly `s

:29:52. > :29:54.everyone else. Indeed, one of the successes of recent years h`s been

:29:55. > :30:02.the new enterprise allowancd which has allowed 20,000 disabled people

:30:03. > :30:05.to start up businesses. One in five of business start-ups, so it is a

:30:06. > :30:11.significant part of the system and we are alive to the needs of

:30:12. > :30:15.self-employed people. I welcome the statement today and enhancelent of

:30:16. > :30:19.the green paper, but can he reassure me he will also be looking `t

:30:20. > :30:23.further improvements to the work capability assessment to make it as

:30:24. > :30:27.smooth as possible for climbers because that will make a big

:30:28. > :30:34.difference. We have had fivd different reviews of the assessment

:30:35. > :30:38.over the past six years and the ideas I am bringing forward today

:30:39. > :30:43.are the latest response to this There is no system is so good it

:30:44. > :30:48.cannot be improved and I welcome my honourable friend's input into

:30:49. > :30:57.making it better. The government's target is welcome, the green paper

:30:58. > :30:59.offers new funding, can the Secretary of State confirm that

:31:00. > :31:07.figure represents less than 5% of the total cut to disabled pdople

:31:08. > :31:14.experience? The honourable gentleman is confusing apples and pears. This

:31:15. > :31:19.is a support programme to gdt people with a disability back into work.

:31:20. > :31:26.The best route out of poverty for people with a disability, as it is

:31:27. > :31:30.generally, is to have a job. We have been as a society much less good at

:31:31. > :31:35.allowing people and encouraging people with a disability back into

:31:36. > :31:39.work than we have for the gdneral population. That is the problem this

:31:40. > :31:47.green paper is intended to `ddress. Citizens in Kettering want to know

:31:48. > :31:52.if the film I, Daniel Blake, is an accurate portrayal of the bdnefits

:31:53. > :31:57.system. If it is, does the green paper address these issues? If it is

:31:58. > :32:05.not, what are the inaccuraches? I have not seen the film yet. It is, I

:32:06. > :32:09.would point out to my honourable friend and the honourable l`dy

:32:10. > :32:13.chuntering from a sedentary position, it is a work of fhction,

:32:14. > :32:20.it is not a documentary and it bears no relationship to the modern

:32:21. > :32:26.benefits system. In particular, as I understand it, it is unfair to

:32:27. > :32:29.Jobcentre staff who are hugdly conscientious people doing ` job in

:32:30. > :32:38.difficult conditions and dohng it very well indeed. If the Secretary

:32:39. > :32:43.of State believes that the disability appeals system is

:32:44. > :32:48.improving, can he explain why he is investing a further ?22 million in

:32:49. > :32:57.recruiting more stark to assist the DWP in defeating more disabhlity and

:32:58. > :33:02.independence claims? Becausd I always seek to improve systdms. Even

:33:03. > :33:08.though it does appear to be producing better selves, as I said a

:33:09. > :33:14.moment ago, there is no system so good that it cannot be improved and

:33:15. > :33:21.I always seek to improve thdm. With its additional personalised tailored

:33:22. > :33:33.support for disabled people, will it reach them in time for April when

:33:34. > :33:37.they lose their payments? I know my honourable friend has a deep

:33:38. > :33:41.interest in this area and when he reads the green paper in full he

:33:42. > :33:48.will find there are many me`sures we can take immediately said that help

:33:49. > :33:52.will be flowing through in the coming months to many peopld who

:33:53. > :33:58.have a disability, but who have the burning desire to get back hnto

:33:59. > :34:05.work. His party's manifesto set out to half the disability employment

:34:06. > :34:13.gap, but now this is watered down to merely making progress. He rejected

:34:14. > :34:16.targets, but without setting out milestones and monitoring progress,

:34:17. > :34:23.how will you judge the succdss of his government's actions? I did not

:34:24. > :34:27.watered down the commitment. The original commitment did not have an

:34:28. > :34:31.end date to it, so I am repdating the manifesto commitment. Wd will

:34:32. > :34:36.publicise all the relevant information, so that we and the

:34:37. > :34:43.House and the public will know the progress we are making. There has

:34:44. > :34:47.been progress in the past fdw years. The percentage of disabled people

:34:48. > :34:54.has caught up in recent years, but I intend to improve on that progress

:34:55. > :34:58.in future. I very much welcome what the Secretary of State has had to

:34:59. > :35:02.say, particularly in relation to support for those with ment`l health

:35:03. > :35:06.conditions. What steps does he plan to take to make sure we eng`ge

:35:07. > :35:10.properly with these people who are affected by these conditions and the

:35:11. > :35:16.organisations that help thel to make sure we get this right? We `re doing

:35:17. > :35:23.large-scale, localised constltations and that is the way to it. There are

:35:24. > :35:29.a huge network of job centrds around the country, 750, so the DWP does

:35:30. > :35:34.have the power to get into local areas and know what local conditions

:35:35. > :35:38.are. That is by far the most powerful tool we have to make sure

:35:39. > :35:44.the services we offer can bd appropriately sensitive in dvery

:35:45. > :35:49.local area. The work capability assessment system is fundamdntally

:35:50. > :35:53.flawed, surely reform must dnsure that as well as judging whether

:35:54. > :35:59.people are fit for a job is also whether the jobs are available for

:36:00. > :36:02.them. Will he look at whethdr the assessment can include the jobs

:36:03. > :36:09.available in the local area as well as the condition? I hope thd

:36:10. > :36:14.honourable gentleman will rdcognise there are more jobs available than

:36:15. > :36:19.being taken in our economy than ever before. General levels of

:36:20. > :36:24.unemployment are very low, 4.9% is a rate that would have been

:36:25. > :36:30.unimaginable in previous er`s. The key is to make sure those jobs, and

:36:31. > :36:34.I hear him on this point, c`n be matched to those who may have a

:36:35. > :36:37.disability or long-term health condition so they can take `dvantage

:36:38. > :36:45.of the vibrant jobs market we currently have. Statement the

:36:46. > :36:51.Secretary of State for business energy and industrial stratdgy.

:36:52. > :36:56.Secretary Doctor Greg Clark. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to

:36:57. > :37:00.make a statement about Niss`n in Sunderland. Last Thursday, the 7th

:37:01. > :37:07.of October, Nissan announced that following a meeting of its dxecutive

:37:08. > :37:11.committee, both their next lodels will be produced at its Sunderland

:37:12. > :37:15.plant. The plant will be expanded through new investment to bd a super

:37:16. > :37:24.plant, manufacturing over 600,0 0 cars a year. 80% of the plant's

:37:25. > :37:28.output is exported to over 030 international markets. The decision

:37:29. > :37:34.is a massive win for the 7000 direct employees and 35 thousand total of

:37:35. > :37:39.the British employees in thd plant and supply chain. It is a tribute to

:37:40. > :37:43.the local workforce which h`s made the Sunderland plant in the words of

:37:44. > :37:49.the chief executive of Niss`n a globally competitive powerhouse We

:37:50. > :37:53.are immensely proud of it and them. Of course, the decision is great

:37:54. > :37:57.news for the people of the North East more widely, for our

:37:58. > :38:02.world-class automotive sector and for the whole of the British

:38:03. > :38:05.economy. This is but the latest in a series of exciting investment in the

:38:06. > :38:10.United Kingdom that has proven to the world we are open for btsiness.

:38:11. > :38:15.It is hard to think of more unambiguously good news. We have

:38:16. > :38:19.been vigorous in ensuring that the Nissan bought had no doubt `bout the

:38:20. > :38:25.importance of this plan and this industry to the British people. Too

:38:26. > :38:29.many conversations we had it became clear that four reassurances were

:38:30. > :38:32.important for securing the investment for Britain. Thrde were

:38:33. > :38:42.about the automotive sector generally and one was about Brexit.

:38:43. > :38:58.Sector, including this. In the development and innovation hn my

:38:59. > :39:12.anthem. The government has hnvested 4 million and continued that is

:39:13. > :39:24.something stop them from a company must be sold it to a rigorots extra

:39:25. > :39:28.the second is we would conthnue working with the automotive sector

:39:29. > :39:32.in Sunderland to make sure lore of the supply chain can locate in the

:39:33. > :39:40.UK and in close proximity to the major manufacturing areas. H

:39:41. > :39:43.establish to big deals and city deals which in working with local

:39:44. > :40:02.enterprise partners have provided the way in which in

:40:03. > :40:13.A strong commitment to rese`rch at the moment and in particular the

:40:14. > :40:17.take up altar at the emission defects. The opportunity is present

:40:18. > :40:24.in bringing the energy and climate change department and busindss to

:40:25. > :40:27.pop your ideally placed to deal with low carbon energy and the attomotive

:40:28. > :40:37.sector in science and research and many other areas. The classx action

:40:38. > :40:58.to lift, it will that their lives, especially in the automotivd sector.

:40:59. > :41:04.We are determined that the TK to be one of those at locations for

:41:05. > :41:23.automotive and other advancdd manufacturers.

:41:24. > :41:30.Think big and bold edition of the world think Jewish workers. The

:41:31. > :41:34.announcement means that a ndw generation of others, technhcians,

:41:35. > :41:37.engineers and managers and lany other working and women can look

:41:38. > :41:46.forward to quiz up with opportunity and success. I can statement to the

:41:47. > :42:02.House. I would like to thank the Sdcretary

:42:03. > :42:07.of State for responding to the statement. Can I join him in warmly

:42:08. > :42:14.welcoming Nissan's decision to keep production in the UK. It is

:42:15. > :42:18.fantastic news for the Niss`n 7 00 employees and the 38,000 employees

:42:19. > :42:23.who rely on its supply chain. It is fantastic news for Sunderland and

:42:24. > :42:27.the country and is testament to the skill, productivity and ability of

:42:28. > :42:32.the workforce and management that Nissan has such confidence hn its

:42:33. > :42:37.Sunderland operation. But whthout detracting from that, we have some

:42:38. > :42:42.concerns. The right honourable gentleman has denied giving Nissan

:42:43. > :42:47.special treatment, but has been refusing to be transparent `bout

:42:48. > :42:49.what they have offered him. Nissan's Sunderland plant epitomises the

:42:50. > :42:56.strength of the UK's automotive industry. The Secretary of State

:42:57. > :43:01.knows we could not afford to lose them. Despite the reassurances given

:43:02. > :43:04.just now and in his tantalising television appearances over the

:43:05. > :43:09.weekend, the nagging question remains. Are we really to bdlieve

:43:10. > :43:15.that Nissan are risking millions of pounds of investment on the basis of

:43:16. > :43:20.the government's good intentions alone? If that is the case, then why

:43:21. > :43:25.have they been keeping their good intentions to themselves? The

:43:26. > :43:30.overwhelming impression has been the government has no strategy for

:43:31. > :43:33.Brexit. If we now are expected to believe the government has `

:43:34. > :43:38.strategy and it is so convincing it has persuaded Nissan twos d`y

:43:39. > :43:45.without any guarantees, then why will he not tell us what thdy are?

:43:46. > :43:49.We are told in the media, whth the revelations transpire, that the

:43:50. > :43:57.government set to Nissan th`t Britain will be as attractive after

:43:58. > :44:02.Brexit is today. It would sdem he has discovered the Brexit epuivalent

:44:03. > :44:07.of the philosopher's stone, decisions agreed by all 27 DU

:44:08. > :44:16.countries, including Wallonha. Surely that is a feat worth sharing?

:44:17. > :44:21.Can the Secretary of State tell us whether he is committing to a full

:44:22. > :44:25.single market access, to a customs union or something else enthrely? Or

:44:26. > :44:30.is it the case that the govdrnment does not know? We want car

:44:31. > :44:35.manufacturers to keep their production in the UK. Why are they

:44:36. > :44:42.not privy to the same assur`nces as Nissan? What about the many

:44:43. > :44:48.businesses up and down the country who are currently deciding whether

:44:49. > :44:53.or not to invest in the UK. Surely they should be told? The automotive

:44:54. > :44:58.sector is hugely important to our economy, but it is not our only

:44:59. > :45:03.strategically important indtstry. Where has the government bedn during

:45:04. > :45:07.the crisis of the steel indtstry? Blocking the EU from taking action

:45:08. > :45:14.against steel dumping. What has doing about pharmaceuticals or the

:45:15. > :45:20.service sector which accounts for more than three quarters of our

:45:21. > :45:24.economy? It seems the government is giving private reassurances to

:45:25. > :45:28.particular company while le`ving the majority of businesses, the public

:45:29. > :45:34.and its elected representathves in the dark about its intentions.

:45:35. > :45:38.Piecemeal, backroom deals whll not provide the active industri`l

:45:39. > :45:42.strategy that Labour have long advocated and that the government

:45:43. > :45:47.now claims to be signed up to. We want the economy firing on `ll

:45:48. > :45:54.cylinders, not tottering along on one or two. As we embark on Brexit,

:45:55. > :46:01.Britain needs a visionary government, not reactive and

:46:02. > :46:04.shambolic. We need a governlent that is transparent and accountable

:46:05. > :46:10.instead of secretive. Why not start now? I say to the right honourable

:46:11. > :46:15.gentleman if you did not offer Nissan sweetener, what have you got

:46:16. > :46:22.to hide? Show us the letter. If the assurances you give to Niss`n apply

:46:23. > :46:28.to the whole automotive sector, show us the letter. If the government has

:46:29. > :46:36.a strategy for Brexit, why won't they tell us what it is. Show us the

:46:37. > :46:43.letter. I welcome the honourable gentleman to the dispatch box. If

:46:44. > :46:48.that is the kind of spluttering old banger of an approach to thdse

:46:49. > :46:56.issues, he should upgrade to the new model. Nissan models are very good.

:46:57. > :47:01.Can I say today to the Housd that it is surprising that in a response to

:47:02. > :47:07.an announcement that has thrilled Sunderland and the North East, that

:47:08. > :47:13.is a big boost to the econoly, that the demeanour of the Labour Party is

:47:14. > :47:19.so miserable. Is it beyond him to put party politics aside and

:47:20. > :47:23.celebrate and congratulate dveryone involved in a successor is hn all

:47:24. > :47:28.our interests. I say seriously to the honourable gentleman and I ask

:47:29. > :47:34.him to waive this up carefully, when I met with Nissan one of thd things

:47:35. > :47:39.they commented on was the continuity over 30 years of a very successful

:47:40. > :47:42.participation in the UK economy of cross-party support and consensus

:47:43. > :47:48.for their Sunderland plant with both Conservative and Labour govdrnments.

:47:49. > :47:58.I think it would be a wrong turn for the Labour Party to lurch away from

:47:59. > :48:02.the bipartisanship. In terms of the conversations we had one of the

:48:03. > :48:07.things I have learned over the years is that getting to know that

:48:08. > :48:13.companies who are in this country and to invest in this country and

:48:14. > :48:17.getting to know them over and understanding what their investment

:48:18. > :48:24.decisions will be based on hs important. We have taken thd

:48:25. > :48:30.opportunity to do that. What I have set out in the full reassur`nces I

:48:31. > :48:35.was able to give them that has resulted in this investment was a

:48:36. > :48:41.reflection of what they said to me. What I would say to the honourable

:48:42. > :48:46.gentleman, Mr Speaker, is I said the following. I would aim for the best

:48:47. > :48:52.possible ability to trade whth other EU countries. I said I would pursue

:48:53. > :48:54.the negotiations in a posithve and constructive spirit mindful of the

:48:55. > :49:00.substantial common ground that exists between us. We are ddtermined

:49:01. > :49:06.to keep Britain's world beating motor industry competitive. Does the

:49:07. > :49:11.Labour Party share those intentions? If so, why would I play gamds with

:49:12. > :49:16.the livelihood of 35,000 working people in this country by not

:49:17. > :49:21.stating this clearly and transparently to Nissan? I welcome

:49:22. > :49:26.the decision they have made. He asked me whether I would publish the

:49:27. > :49:34.correspondence. I have set out the information I gave them. My

:49:35. > :49:37.responsibility on behalf of the government is to encourage `nd to

:49:38. > :49:43.attract investment in this country and it is important that whdn

:49:44. > :49:50.companies of all types and hn all sectors share with me their

:49:51. > :49:52.investment plans, that is information to their prospective

:49:53. > :49:55.competitors, that they can be assured they will not be disclosed

:49:56. > :50:03.to their competitors to thehr disadvantage. My objective hs to

:50:04. > :50:07.obtain those investments. I am very happy to answer today and to the

:50:08. > :50:13.Select Committee were I intdnd to appear, all of the aspects of this.

:50:14. > :50:18.Can I finally said to the honourable gentleman, he is a relatively new

:50:19. > :50:24.member of this house and I hope you will have a distinguished tdnure

:50:25. > :50:27.here. But colleagues in all parts of this house from Newcastle to

:50:28. > :50:34.Newquay, from Liverpool to Lowestoft, will now that whdnever I

:50:35. > :50:39.work to attract success to our regions and to our towns and cities

:50:40. > :50:45.and counties, I always do it on a cross-party basis. Party politics

:50:46. > :50:49.never features in the way that I work and I hope in future wd will be

:50:50. > :50:56.able to work together on such common interest. I want to accommodate the

:50:57. > :51:00.interest. Preferably a single sentence without preamble. Pithy

:51:01. > :51:07.replies are what is required. Nicky Morgan. The Secretary of St`te is to

:51:08. > :51:12.be congratulated for his announcement. But he will understand

:51:13. > :51:15.the desires of Parliament to understand the terms on which this

:51:16. > :51:20.and other negotiations are conducted. Can I ask him whdther he

:51:21. > :51:24.has discussed this with the International Trade Secretary and

:51:25. > :51:31.whether he will be in the international driving seat of future

:51:32. > :51:38.negotiations because we think he is good at it? I think she knows we

:51:39. > :51:45.have a committee on Brexit on which I serve alongside my right

:51:46. > :51:49.honourable friend. Can I also thank the Secretary of State for his

:51:50. > :51:54.statement. I would perhaps note he may have said a little bit lore to

:51:55. > :51:59.the BBC yesterday and he has two the House today. I hope he is not

:52:00. > :52:03.joining the ever-growing list of secretaries of state who have been

:52:04. > :52:07.slapped down by the Prime Mhnister for expressing their person`l

:52:08. > :52:11.opinions in terms of this. But I welcome this and it is important

:52:12. > :52:14.action has been taken to protect parts of the economy from the

:52:15. > :52:19.potential negative impacts that can be caused by Brexit. Perhaps it is

:52:20. > :52:25.more than a quarter of the hssues that were on Nissan's agend`. He

:52:26. > :52:28.said to the BBC that our objective would be to have continued `ccess

:52:29. > :52:34.without tariff or bureaucratic impediments. That has not bden said

:52:35. > :52:39.today, but I think that is correct. If that objective is not re`lise,

:52:40. > :52:44.what will the cost be to thd taxpayer in terms of a deal to

:52:45. > :52:49.Nissan? How much will it cost to make good should those tariffs be

:52:50. > :52:53.enforced? Members on these benches will welcome the fact that `n area

:52:54. > :52:57.of the country that voted overwhelmingly to leave the European

:52:58. > :53:01.Union has been given a spechal deal and we look forward with grdat gusto

:53:02. > :53:05.to the deal that will be given to Scotland in recognition to the fact

:53:06. > :53:12.that we overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU.

:53:13. > :53:22.I hope he will bring forward a flexible Brexit to look aftdr

:53:23. > :53:27.Scotland's economy. The Secretary of State must recognise that the game

:53:28. > :53:31.is a bit of a bulky here. Brexit meme spreads it will not cut it when

:53:32. > :53:37.he's gone on behind closed doors cutting deals with others whthout

:53:38. > :53:43.making this House or others aware of what that is. The devolved

:53:44. > :53:49.administration got a hotlind, not a letter of comfort, one that doesn't

:53:50. > :53:59.get and served for 36 hours. We must press on. I have not been slapped

:54:00. > :54:05.down, sideways or whatever way by the Prime Minister, I am happy to

:54:06. > :54:11.say. The approach that I set out to the house previously is simply to

:54:12. > :54:16.reflect what I would've thotght was common sense, in an area, and we

:54:17. > :54:19.have been talking about the automotive sector, in which there

:54:20. > :54:25.are substantial exports comd from Britain the European Union, from the

:54:26. > :54:29.European Union to this country, components could backwards `nd

:54:30. > :54:32.forwards, it seems to me at the common interest in having

:54:33. > :54:36.arrangements that are free of tariffs and free of the burdaucratic

:54:37. > :54:43.-- bureaucratic impediments that I mentioned. When you embark on

:54:44. > :54:46.negotiations, it is about fhnding the common ground and having a

:54:47. > :54:51.positive position on which to do. That is what I set out and described

:54:52. > :54:57.in the San and indeed to anx other manufacturer. It is on that basis,

:54:58. > :55:02.amongst the other point that I made, that they felt able to make this

:55:03. > :55:09.fantastic investment, not only in the north-east but into the United

:55:10. > :55:13.Kingdom. Can I say that the primer -- Prime Minister would havd slapped

:55:14. > :55:17.them on the back with congratulations for a remarkable

:55:18. > :55:24.deal. If he would come clean on one of the issue, which I'm surd he did

:55:25. > :55:28.say to them, he reminded thdm that the UK outside the European Union

:55:29. > :55:31.will be able to set its own new trade deals and guess which car

:55:32. > :55:39.manufacturers will benefit from free trade deals with the rest of the

:55:40. > :55:48.world? As the Prime Minister said, we will make a success of Brexit. We

:55:49. > :55:53.want every sector of our economy not to be disadvantaged by Brexht, but

:55:54. > :56:01.to reap the benefits and to be more competitive. Could I commend the

:56:02. > :56:05.Secretary of State for this piece of great news? It is a welcome example

:56:06. > :56:09.of targeted government commhtment to a successful company in the

:56:10. > :56:13.strategically vital sector hn the most important region on earth.

:56:14. > :56:20.We'll have the same sort of targeted investment be available to other

:56:21. > :56:28.firms and sectors? If so, how will these be selected in terms of a

:56:29. > :56:35.proper strategy? I am very grateful for the generous complement he has

:56:36. > :56:40.paid me. I am not going to disagree with him on what he said about the

:56:41. > :56:48.north-east but I should say that Kent ranks equally as well with the

:56:49. > :56:52.north-east in that. I am looking forward to coming to his Select

:56:53. > :56:56.Committee to answer questions and also talk about the industrhal

:56:57. > :57:02.strategy. It seems to be th`t the approach that I am taking whth the

:57:03. > :57:06.firms that are in our econoly is to take time to meet them, to

:57:07. > :57:13.understand the different nedds of different sectors so that wd can be

:57:14. > :57:19.informed by them as we form our negotiating mandate, it will be

:57:20. > :57:27.different from sector to sector My commitment, which we will share when

:57:28. > :57:33.we meet in his committee, is through our industrial strategy to lake sure

:57:34. > :57:38.that we not only have confidence for individual sectors, but indhvidual

:57:39. > :57:42.places as well because therd is an interesting confluence therd and I

:57:43. > :57:46.think the investment in the sand is good for the sector and for

:57:47. > :57:56.Sunderland and the north-east. I should declare an interest `s a

:57:57. > :57:59.driver of a Nissan. For years we have had calls from across this

:58:00. > :58:03.House for an activist, interventionist Business Secretary

:58:04. > :58:06.repair to do everything possible in order to secure jobs for

:58:07. > :58:10.working-class people in disadvantaged parts of the country

:58:11. > :58:16.and now that we have one, c`n he explain to me why the opposhtion Ben

:58:17. > :58:26.Swift -- opposition benches will take yes for an answer? He has no

:58:27. > :58:31.responsibility for opposition policy author Oscar Wilde, although we

:58:32. > :58:35.always enjoyed the pipette ,- poetic licence of the honourable gdntleman.

:58:36. > :58:39.I want to ask a question about the duties and rights of this shze. Last

:58:40. > :58:44.Monday the Prime Minister told the size the government must not show

:58:45. > :58:49.its hand in detail to Parli`ment in advance of the Brexit gauzy Asians.

:58:50. > :58:53.At the same time we now know that the Secretary of State was telling

:58:54. > :58:57.the San the government's dedp cover negotiating stance but the

:58:58. > :59:02.automotive sector, including the fact there will be tariff free trade

:59:03. > :59:09.and no bureaucratic impedimdnts Can he explain how the two positions are

:59:10. > :59:13.consistent? He exemplifies what my right honourable friend was saying.

:59:14. > :59:19.He looks so glum at this news. What I set out to the house and they set

:59:20. > :59:23.out to Nissan and to any firm that is in this country is what ly

:59:24. > :59:27.colleagues have said repeatddly that there is a great common

:59:28. > :59:35.interest between other European union nations have yourselvds in

:59:36. > :59:38.having a deal following the negotiations that maximises the

:59:39. > :59:45.benefit to both sides. That seems to me so obvious as to be hardly worth

:59:46. > :59:51.emphasising. That is the deleanour in which we will approach the gauzy

:59:52. > :59:55.Asians. It is the approach that I have always taken in negoti`tions

:59:56. > :00:01.and it seems that this is something that people are glad to hear. I

:00:02. > :00:05.would like to congratulate the Secretary of State in providing a

:00:06. > :00:09.great deal for the north-east. The Minister's clarification th`t the

:00:10. > :00:12.government wanted continued access to the single market without

:00:13. > :00:20.bureaucratic impediments possess significant extension of thd

:00:21. > :00:24.government's negotiating position. Does he agree with me that the rules

:00:25. > :00:30.of origin that the UK would face outside customs union would

:00:31. > :00:37.constitute bureaucratic impddiments? What I would say to him is that this

:00:38. > :00:45.goes beyond any discussions that I have had with any company hdre. It

:00:46. > :00:48.seems to me, why would Junot came as a matter of negotiation to `void

:00:49. > :00:58.bureaucratic impediments? That seems to be common sense. We all welcome

:00:59. > :01:02.the Nissan announcement at Nissan is only one company that is making

:01:03. > :01:06.decisions now about its futtre investment in the United Kingdom.

:01:07. > :01:10.Given the persuasive reassurance that the right honourable gdntleman

:01:11. > :01:16.was able to offer the company, can he tell the house whether hhs offer

:01:17. > :01:21.of tariff free access to thd European market will be avahlable to

:01:22. > :01:26.all other parts of manufacttring sector, given what he said ` moment

:01:27. > :01:29.ago when he indicated that the government might take a different

:01:30. > :01:34.approach to different sectors? Get that means that some of thel might

:01:35. > :01:39.not benefit from tariff fred access, they would like to know that

:01:40. > :01:43.quickly. He is wise enough to know that it is not in my gift offered

:01:44. > :01:47.tariff free access to the shngle market, I was describing a positive

:01:48. > :01:51.outcome for the negotiations and therefore the demeanour we should

:01:52. > :01:59.take and is the gauzy Asians. As my colleagues meet, my team sh`re my

:02:00. > :02:05.figure in talking to companhes up and down the land to make stre that

:02:06. > :02:08.we understand what is important to them to inform our negotiathons

:02:09. > :02:13.That seems an eminently sensible thing to do. Can I warmly

:02:14. > :02:18.congratulate my right honourable friend and by Minister on sdcuring

:02:19. > :02:23.this fantastic new deal with Nissan. It doesn't just benefit the good

:02:24. > :02:27.people of the north-east, it extends throughout the whole of the United

:02:28. > :02:31.Kingdom. It benefits tens of thousands of people and thehr

:02:32. > :02:36.families. I met with the constituent of mine last Saturday that runs a

:02:37. > :02:42.small IT business. He too one certainty about tariffs. He said to

:02:43. > :02:46.me that if he has tariffs ilposed on his business he will have to get rid

:02:47. > :02:52.of his business and go back into employment and his staff will lose

:02:53. > :02:57.their jobs. Companies of all sizes in all sectors need this certainty.

:02:58. > :03:01.Would he agree that it is rhght that we in this House have that debate

:03:02. > :03:08.and a vote on the underlying principles of our negotiations with

:03:09. > :03:19.the EU to give the government a truly mandate? When she was a

:03:20. > :03:22.minister in my department, she was vigorous herself in engaging with

:03:23. > :03:27.businesses and understanding what they need. She mentioned sm`ll

:03:28. > :03:30.businesses. I would confirm that I meet regularly with small btsinesses

:03:31. > :03:34.and the representative organisations. Many times shnce my

:03:35. > :03:38.appointment I have done that and she is right that it is important that

:03:39. > :03:45.the views help shape our negotiating mandate. When it comes to the

:03:46. > :03:49.debates in this House, the Prime Minister and my Cabinet colleagues

:03:50. > :03:54.have said repeatedly that there will be many occasions to debate and have

:03:55. > :04:01.these things scrutinised. C`n I warmly welcome the statement on the

:04:02. > :04:09.kind words about Sunderland, my home city. The palpable relief in

:04:10. > :04:15.Sunderland on Thursday at the announcement was there. There are

:04:16. > :04:20.still concerns around the stpply chain who may not necessarily be

:04:21. > :04:22.included because they supplx other types of industry, and the wider

:04:23. > :04:33.manufacturing base in the north-east. Middlesbrough h`ve been

:04:34. > :04:36.doing better in football terms than Sunderland this season, so they

:04:37. > :04:40.deserve a break when it comds to Nissan. The supply chain is

:04:41. > :04:50.incredibly important. Across the automotive sector, there ard

:04:51. > :04:56.businesses that can locate close to the main plants that currently are

:04:57. > :05:00.overseas. It is in the interests of everyone that if there are sites

:05:01. > :05:07.that can be remediated, that require some better road access for example,

:05:08. > :05:11.that we work on that togethdr. That was part of the discussions that

:05:12. > :05:18.will particularly benefit the supply chain. May I warmly congrattlate the

:05:19. > :05:20.Secretary of State for the announcement. Can he assure the

:05:21. > :05:26.house that he would jeopardhse future announcements by revdaling

:05:27. > :05:31.too much of confidential information that is, between him and other

:05:32. > :05:34.parties? I am happy to answdr any questions that the house has a lab

:05:35. > :05:41.looking forward to appearing before the select pity. I have been pretty

:05:42. > :05:46.candid, describe each of thd four aspects of the reassurances I was

:05:47. > :05:51.able to give. It is reasonable that the company is considering `n

:05:52. > :05:57.investment here describe thd commercial plans, that they may not

:05:58. > :06:01.want to see their competitors, see a ball into the hands of their

:06:02. > :06:05.competitors, that should be a confidence that they should have in

:06:06. > :06:10.dealing with the government. As a North Eastern, I am sure he will

:06:11. > :06:16.know that there is a's news buoyed not only Sunderland but the wider

:06:17. > :06:21.north-east. I've got teary dye at the plant on Thursday evening

:06:22. > :06:27.knowing that the announcement had secured the likelihood and future

:06:28. > :06:31.aspirations of so many families The details of the latter are ilportant,

:06:32. > :06:36.but can I as the local MP for the plant and about half of the nearly

:06:37. > :06:42.46,000 workforce across the UK whose jobs are no more secure to say thank

:06:43. > :06:47.you. I am touched by her st`tement. It is very kind of her. I always had

:06:48. > :06:50.in mind and we were having these discussions that this is not a

:06:51. > :06:56.theoretical investment. These are real people who work hard, do

:06:57. > :07:00.brilliant work. They are thd best regarded in the world in thd

:07:01. > :07:05.international system. They `re the most productive in the world. They

:07:06. > :07:09.go to Japan to help train some of the auto workers there. It hs

:07:10. > :07:13.something that I am proud of, she is proud of and I think the whole house

:07:14. > :07:17.should be proud of the workforce. I congratulate my right honourable

:07:18. > :07:21.friend. How can his reassur`nce to Nissan that there will be continued

:07:22. > :07:24.access to the European markdt without bureaucratic impedilents be

:07:25. > :07:30.assured if Britain is outside the customs union? As I said to other

:07:31. > :07:36.honourable members, what I was able to say is how you would go hnto a

:07:37. > :07:40.negotiation. That seems to le to find common ground. We cert`inly

:07:41. > :07:45.didn't get into any discusshons of particular models, as you would

:07:46. > :07:48.expect. It seems to me that one can overcomplicate these things and to

:07:49. > :07:52.be clear about your intentions to find common ground and purste

:07:53. > :07:57.discussions in a rational and civilised way is not a bad thing to

:07:58. > :08:01.be able to convey. I will wholeheartedly welcomed this

:08:02. > :08:05.decision by Nissan which will protect thousands of jobs and many

:08:06. > :08:09.of the people that they represent. Can I press again on the issue of

:08:10. > :08:13.the supply chain? Your doctor but the supply chain in the futtre and

:08:14. > :08:17.on the existing supply chain what more can we say in terms of

:08:18. > :08:19.reassurance to that supply chain and the wider manufacturing sector in

:08:20. > :08:23.the region that he will do everything in his power to protect

:08:24. > :08:30.their interests and medium-size businesses that serve at?

:08:31. > :08:37.I look forward to meeting whth the existing supply chain. She will know

:08:38. > :08:41.that we've already done quite a lot on that. I helped negotiate the

:08:42. > :08:48.Sunderland city deal and to establish the advanced manufacturing

:08:49. > :08:51.park next to the Nissan sitd, precisely to provide better

:08:52. > :08:56.facilities. She will know about the Newbridge that we secured ftnding

:08:57. > :09:04.for to assist with that. I know very well the importance of not just the

:09:05. > :09:09.major sites, vital though that is, but the whole ecology of business

:09:10. > :09:14.around it and that is one of the reasons why I think this investment

:09:15. > :09:18.is so important. Important though Nissan is, this gives anothdr big

:09:19. > :09:26.boost to the existing supplx chain and those competitors that will join

:09:27. > :09:30.in the future. It provides `n incentive to continue to improve

:09:31. > :09:35.skills and encourage innovation Does the Secretary of State agree

:09:36. > :09:38.that our catapult centres, such as the technology manufacturing sector

:09:39. > :09:45.in my constituency, have a big part to play in this role? One of the

:09:46. > :09:50.enticing offers that we havd in this country for companies to locate is

:09:51. > :09:53.the excellence of our research and error science, whether it's in

:09:54. > :09:58.universities are increasingly in situations like catapult th`t help

:09:59. > :10:05.translate into the wider market and to our industrial strategy, we want

:10:06. > :10:10.to increase the focus on thhs very important area of strength so that

:10:11. > :10:15.other firms can invest and can see Britain as the guru to placd for

:10:16. > :10:19.advanced manufacturing when other sectors too. First of all, the news

:10:20. > :10:24.about Nissan in the north-e`st is brilliant news but there is also

:10:25. > :10:32.other strategic industry in the north-east of England and I include

:10:33. > :10:36.my constituency, in ?90 million factory last year, employs `lmost

:10:37. > :10:44.1000 people, with hundreds lore in the supply chain. They were here for

:10:45. > :10:48.the long term, to have access to the European market. At the momdnt, the

:10:49. > :10:53.building the inner-city express programme, that will last three

:10:54. > :10:57.years to build the machines. The here for the long term. In the

:10:58. > :11:02.spirit of the cross-party approach, would he actually meet with me to

:11:03. > :11:06.see what we can do to ensurd that the Japanese company will continue

:11:07. > :11:13.to invest in the north-east? I will indeed. I am eating them tolorrow

:11:14. > :11:18.and I had the of presenting an award at Asia Housing commemoration.

:11:19. > :11:23.Everyone and a positive association we have had with Hatachi and one of

:11:24. > :11:27.my previous visits to Japan in this role, I had the great pleastre of

:11:28. > :11:31.meeting many of the Hatachi directors and seeing their

:11:32. > :11:37.innovation and their continted commitment to this country. Very

:11:38. > :11:40.important. The desperate se`rch very commercial buying in this

:11:41. > :11:43.announcement by some members of the opposition is frankly insulting to

:11:44. > :11:48.Britain, Japan, Nissan and Sunderland. Does he agree whth me

:11:49. > :11:51.that rather than talking thd country down, we should be celebrathng its

:11:52. > :11:55.recent inward investment successes, not least from the Far East, which

:11:56. > :11:59.demonstrate the Government hs living up to its commitment to meeting a

:12:00. > :12:06.success of Brexit? It is unambiguously good news and I hope

:12:07. > :12:11.the whole house will welcomd it Many people in my constituency work

:12:12. > :12:15.in this firms can I warmly welcome the news and thank the Minister for

:12:16. > :12:18.arts 's involvement. If he has had a special deal, good. I just look

:12:19. > :12:24.forward to many more for thd north east companies on exports. H do urge

:12:25. > :12:30.the honourable gentleman for what he said. I believe in being active and

:12:31. > :12:35.vigorous and meeting companhes and understanding what are the

:12:36. > :12:39.challenges that they face? H make no apology for that. My whole

:12:40. > :12:46.ministerial team will be active in securing investments with this

:12:47. > :12:50.country. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I say this is fantastic news, any

:12:51. > :12:53.can spread of British industry. There are many factors that make

:12:54. > :13:00.this country attractive to companies like Nissan. One is the corporation

:13:01. > :13:04.tax. Can the Autumn Statement make sure it stays competitive bhd gets

:13:05. > :13:08.even more competitive? He ndeds to direct that the Chancellor but I

:13:09. > :13:12.will pass it on when I see him in The Cabinet tomorrow. He is right to

:13:13. > :13:18.do maybe House there is the whole range of attributes and strdngth

:13:19. > :13:22.this country has witnessed lake it so attractive to investors from

:13:23. > :13:29.overseas and domestic leagud. It's important that across the whole

:13:30. > :13:34.range that we get them right. Thank you, Mr Speaker. May I warmly

:13:35. > :13:37.welcome this statement by the Secretary of State. Very important

:13:38. > :13:44.for the north-east and the puayside area. Nissan is a massive btyer

:13:45. > :13:48.earlier this year with the steel crisis, Nissan went hunting around

:13:49. > :13:52.for a new supply chains. Ustally the European Union would supply that

:13:53. > :13:57.chain. We fight a disaster hn the north-east, this contrast to the

:13:58. > :14:00.situation on this Government's watch. Although it's taken six years

:14:01. > :14:04.for the Government understand what new Labour style is, I very much

:14:05. > :14:07.welcome it and I welcome thd Secretary of State press st`tement.

:14:08. > :14:11.I am welcome for the backhanded comment. I would not agree that it's

:14:12. > :14:15.the new Labour style industrial activism. He will know it w`s a

:14:16. > :14:23.Conservative Government 30 xears ago that secured Nissan for the UK and

:14:24. > :14:30.I'm proud that it's a Conservative Government has secured its future in

:14:31. > :14:33.Britain. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can also congratulate him on thhs

:14:34. > :14:38.announcement. Does he agree that the commitment for Nissan is not only

:14:39. > :14:41.just good news for the north-east and Nissan's direct employeds but

:14:42. > :14:48.also the supply chain companies and their employees across the country,

:14:49. > :14:52.such as that work in a comp`ny which has a manufacturing plant in

:14:53. > :14:57.Cannock? I certainly do. Shd is a right to point out the wave of

:14:58. > :15:04.benefits across the economy. The honourable gentleman made one

:15:05. > :15:07.example. The consequences for positive news like this extdnds to

:15:08. > :15:12.other important sectors as well that is why it is so import`nt that

:15:13. > :15:23.we should do and should be `ctive and vigorous in attracting new

:15:24. > :15:28.investment. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is an extremely welcomd

:15:29. > :15:34.announcement. But there is ` worrying that it could be an

:15:35. > :15:39.isolated deal, rather than ` clear strategy for the regions. When it is

:15:40. > :15:45.contrasted with the redundancies announced by DD cargo UK in

:15:46. > :15:49.Doncaster, citing Brexit as one of the reasons, doesn't it point to why

:15:50. > :15:55.it is so important for the Government to conduct regional

:15:56. > :15:59.impact assessment of Brexit and to publish them to demonstrate that

:16:00. > :16:05.there is a clearly thought out strategy which will reflect to the

:16:06. > :16:10.needs of regions as well as sectors? What I would say is that it's nice

:16:11. > :16:14.to hear her able to speak from the backbenches and she speaks very

:16:15. > :16:16.compellingly. I think it's very important as anything colle`gues who

:16:17. > :16:22.know my interest in these m`tters would expect that our regions, our

:16:23. > :16:27.towns, cities and counties have a very important role to play in our

:16:28. > :16:31.industrial strategy. I don't know whether she has been elected to the

:16:32. > :16:34.new select committee on bushness energy and industrial stratdgy but

:16:35. > :16:37.I'm sure she's able to attend because I hope were going to be

:16:38. > :16:45.discussing precisely this in the next few weeks. Mr Speaker, it is

:16:46. > :16:49.offshore wind industry week, so will the Secretary of State joinhng me in

:16:50. > :16:53.welcoming this fantastic news for Nissan and also confirm it will be a

:16:54. > :16:58.key role in low carbon future for British industry? I'm delighted he

:16:59. > :17:02.has mentioned that because one of the great strategic opportunities in

:17:03. > :17:06.industrial strategy is to combine our leadership, our world

:17:07. > :17:09.leadership, in offshore winds, renewable energy, with our

:17:10. > :17:12.commanding position in the automotive sector to bring them

:17:13. > :17:16.together so when it comes to electric vehicles and battery

:17:17. > :17:23.storage, we can lead the world and this is what we intend to do. Can

:17:24. > :17:27.the Secretary of State deserves credit for what is a signifhcant and

:17:28. > :17:31.quite substantial achievement here. But special deals for the c`r

:17:32. > :17:36.industry, financial sector, offer very little comfort to the literally

:17:37. > :17:40.thousands of small businessds, the length and the breadth of this

:17:41. > :17:46.country, which does go north of Newcastle as well. They depdnd on

:17:47. > :17:51.exports for their livelihood. What will the Secretary of State do to

:17:52. > :17:56.ensure that these small bushnesses, the lifeblood of so many in our

:17:57. > :18:00.communities, get the same access to him and his department that has

:18:01. > :18:04.clearly been given to the bhg boys in the multinationals? And delighted

:18:05. > :18:07.the right honourable gentlelan aspens question because one of the

:18:08. > :18:12.first visit I made as Secretary of State was to Aberdeen and h`d a very

:18:13. > :18:17.successful and very important meeting with the chamber of commerce

:18:18. > :18:20.there, with small businesses in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire talking

:18:21. > :18:25.about what they wanted to achieve from the breadth negotiations. He is

:18:26. > :18:30.right. I think the first Secretary of State new business department

:18:31. > :18:33.have ministers with regional and national responsibilities when it

:18:34. > :18:40.comes to the devolved administrations. This reflects the

:18:41. > :18:43.importance of building that into the industrial strategy when it comes to

:18:44. > :18:50.small businesses and every part of the UK. I welcome this positive and

:18:51. > :18:55.proactive approach. As the Secretary of State had a chance to medt with

:18:56. > :18:58.Honda to discuss future opportunities? Yes indeed. H met

:18:59. > :19:07.with Honda when I was in Japan ten days or so ago. I'm glad th`t Nissan

:19:08. > :19:13.are continuing to invest in the north-east. Can the Minister gave me

:19:14. > :19:19.in Liverpool some comfort, ` letter would be accepted, that I c`n pass

:19:20. > :19:23.on to Jaguar, Land Rover and the other automotive supply chahn

:19:24. > :19:28.industries in my constituency to say to them that they will be treated in

:19:29. > :19:30.exactly the same way? I've been very clear about maintaining the

:19:31. > :19:36.competitiveness of the ultilate of sector. She mentions companhes, I

:19:37. > :19:43.meeting, again,, Jaguar, Land Rover again a very shortly. They `re part

:19:44. > :19:47.of the development of our industrial strategy. It's very important that

:19:48. > :19:52.they should be. These are the companies with supply chains that

:19:53. > :19:55.are succeeding, have contributed to our national success. We will work

:19:56. > :20:01.with them to build on that success and make even more successftl in

:20:02. > :20:05.future. Can I congratulate him on what is undoubtedly a huge personal

:20:06. > :20:08.achievement and also the people of the north-east procreating hn the

:20:09. > :20:12.Sunderland plant a globally competitive powerhouse? Isn't it

:20:13. > :20:17.Batty isn't this delay sign`l to those Remunerative rapper, Room

:20:18. > :20:22.owners, they should recalibrate their doom and gloom and become far

:20:23. > :20:27.optimal is -- optimistic about future of this country outshde the

:20:28. > :20:33.European Union? This is a d`y for celebration rather than deb`ting

:20:34. > :20:38.those sort of issues. I do think it is a big success. I think wd should

:20:39. > :20:43.all celebrate it. It shows that Britain is and can be competitive

:20:44. > :20:50.and some of the world's biggest companies are backing a verx

:20:51. > :20:54.vigorously. The Secretary of State Beasley said the right thing to

:20:55. > :21:00.Nissan. He knows there are lany manufacturing industries with

:21:01. > :21:05.international supply chains. Well he now when he is sitting in the Brexit

:21:06. > :21:09.subcommittee at Cabinet impress on his colleagues the value of staying

:21:10. > :21:13.in the customs union? What H would say to the honourable lady hs that

:21:14. > :21:21.the approach that I have set out across our economy is to medt with

:21:22. > :21:23.those businesses that are p`rt of my responsibility, I have senshble

:21:24. > :21:28.discussions to understand from them what they need and to inforl and

:21:29. > :21:34.negotiating mandate. That's my commitment to all the busindsses

:21:35. > :21:38.that I meet, large and small. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This announcement

:21:39. > :21:42.shows to the world that Britain is open for business. I hope otr supply

:21:43. > :21:48.chains will get a real boost from this too, particularly UK steel

:21:49. > :21:53.Could he say it little bit `round the wider involvement of thd UK

:21:54. > :21:56.automobile sector in the forthcoming industrial strategy and how this

:21:57. > :22:02.particular announcement fits into that? I will, Mr Speaker. It seems

:22:03. > :22:06.to me that in any industrial strategy you should build on your

:22:07. > :22:10.strengths and not be complacent but to recognise that in order to

:22:11. > :22:14.continue to be strong you nded to look at the underlying condhtions

:22:15. > :22:18.for that and so when it comds to the automotive sector, the presdnce of a

:22:19. > :22:21.vigorous supply chain is important, to be at the cutting edge of

:22:22. > :22:27.research and development is important, to have skills in the

:22:28. > :22:31.workforce and which, I am pleased to see, expanding companies can count

:22:32. > :22:34.to be able to fulfil their books, this is all very important hn

:22:35. > :22:38.enabling conditions and it seems to me that Government has a role to

:22:39. > :22:44.play in working with them to make sure the Aral met. Canny Secretary

:22:45. > :22:48.of State confirm within the arrangement of Nissan is a one-off

:22:49. > :22:53.or part of a wider strategy to protect the economy than thd impact

:22:54. > :22:55.of Brexit? If it is part of the wider strategy, Kenny Secretary of

:22:56. > :22:58.State confirm what other businesses and organisations he has spoken with

:22:59. > :23:04.over the past few months on a similar terms?

:23:05. > :23:12.It is part of our strategy to make sure that written is compethtive in

:23:13. > :23:17.the future, as it is now and has been in the past. It is a vdry

:23:18. > :23:26.strategic approach that we `re saying. I meet businesses l`rge and

:23:27. > :23:31.small almost every day of the week. In all of the conversations that I

:23:32. > :23:36.have read discuss what is ilportant, what are the challenges thex face,

:23:37. > :23:44.what is the strategic ambithon so that I can be informed about it Can

:23:45. > :23:50.I welcome the Nissan decision and congratulate the Minister for his

:23:51. > :23:53.role in securing its? In particular, I welcome his comments about the

:23:54. > :24:03.research and development and innovation. Given the fact that the

:24:04. > :24:07.developing industry and university collaboration is crucial in that and

:24:08. > :24:12.the role of foreign students and researchers is also crucial and the

:24:13. > :24:15.drop that we have had in nulbers applying, what assurances that he

:24:16. > :24:27.gave to the industry that hhs government will reverse that? The

:24:28. > :24:31.honourable gentleman thinks my discussions went broader th`n they

:24:32. > :24:36.did. Of course, everything H have said about research and devdlopment,

:24:37. > :24:41.our universities are key to that. As a former universities Minister and

:24:42. > :24:47.now once again with the responsibility for science, I will

:24:48. > :24:53.do everything that they can to promote research excellence and

:24:54. > :24:56.nature continues in future. Universities in Scotland have bored

:24:57. > :25:01.about an exodus of talent that we don't have a long-term future plans

:25:02. > :25:04.for EU National is, so what confirmation can he gave th`t EU

:25:05. > :25:12.nationals will have a long-term future in this country? As he knows,

:25:13. > :25:16.there will be lots of opportunities to discuss other aspects of the

:25:17. > :25:21.negotiations that we will h`ve. I think there is even a debatd next

:25:22. > :25:27.week on these matters. May H also welcome the announcement by Nissan

:25:28. > :25:31.and acknowledge the work of the government and the union and others

:25:32. > :25:36.involved in this decision. One of the reassurances that the Mhnister

:25:37. > :25:42.mentioned is the support for skills and training of the local workforce

:25:43. > :25:47.and research. Is the Ministdr expecting any cuts in research and

:25:48. > :25:50.development from the EU to the UK regions businesses and what

:25:51. > :25:55.reassurance has he given th`t could also be applied to other sectors and

:25:56. > :26:04.regions to ensure that they would lose I'd? The Chancellor has already

:26:05. > :26:07.made a commitment to continte that European funding that has already

:26:08. > :26:15.been committed. Much of the support that we have given to trainhng and

:26:16. > :26:19.skills development in the attomotive sector is from our own resotrces and

:26:20. > :26:28.one of the things that I was able to say is that we regard that `s

:26:29. > :26:32.important to continue. We know that there are attempts to do a deal for

:26:33. > :26:39.the City of London, we know there is a deal for Nissan. Why is it that

:26:40. > :26:44.when our First Minister comds down here she is shown the door. There is

:26:45. > :26:50.a deal for Nissan but no de`l for Scotland for this covenant? I have

:26:51. > :26:54.had the pleasure of meeting the First Minister at least twice since

:26:55. > :26:58.I have taken up this job and what I have said to her personally and

:26:59. > :27:03.directly is that as we develop our industrial strategy Scotland has a

:27:04. > :27:07.big place on that. Of coursd it is important that all parts of the

:27:08. > :27:11.United Kingdom need to benefit from our industrial success in the

:27:12. > :27:16.future. He may know that through the city deals that have been ndgotiated

:27:17. > :27:21.between the UK Government, the Scottish Government and the various

:27:22. > :27:28.councils, that we have and H personally have a track record in

:27:29. > :27:31.making those discussions work. I certainly welcome the news `nd I'm

:27:32. > :27:37.sure there are thousands of people who work at the Vauxhall pl`nt in my

:27:38. > :27:42.constituency will be delighted that a similar announcement to bd made in

:27:43. > :27:45.due course. The Secretary of State for the two different stratdgies for

:27:46. > :27:51.different industries, but does he accept that within the UK attomotive

:27:52. > :27:56.sector there are differences between plants and plant? Would he dngage in

:27:57. > :28:04.similar intimate dialogue whth General Motors? I would not describe

:28:05. > :28:10.the dialogue is intimate, btt I can make that commitment to the

:28:11. > :28:16.honourable gentleman. Around 20 ,000 jobs are sustained by singld

:28:17. > :28:20.membership. With the UK market government picking financial sector

:28:21. > :28:24.and automotive sector assets rated winners, how many of those 200, 00

:28:25. > :28:30.Welsh jobs will be safe aftdr Brexit? We are at a point where we

:28:31. > :31:22.have not begun the negotiathons with the

:31:23. > :31:29.The minister has indicated today that he will pay a sector bx sector

:31:30. > :31:31.approach. Duffy also agree there needs to be a region by reghon

:31:32. > :31:38.approach and does he also think there needs to be plans madd with

:31:39. > :31:41.Northern Ireland? Have alre`dy met the economy minister of Northern

:31:42. > :31:45.Ireland and had a very constructive discussion with him. The re`son I

:31:46. > :31:49.had that discussion was to hnvite him to help us as we develop our

:31:50. > :31:52.industrial strategy is about particularly has that appreciation

:31:53. > :32:00.of the different needs in dhfferent places that he commends. Mr Speaker,

:32:01. > :32:04.I welcome the news that so lany jobs in Sunderland will be protected from

:32:05. > :32:09.the consequences of Brexit. Its Edinburgh jobs I have to thhnk

:32:10. > :32:11.about. Many thousands of my constituents are employed dhrectly

:32:12. > :32:16.or indirectly in Edinburgh's financial sector and Edinburgh's

:32:17. > :32:20.economy is more reliant on financial services than any other citx in the

:32:21. > :32:24.UK. These people are worried about the consequences of losing the EU

:32:25. > :32:26.passports. Will the Minister guarantee that you will advocate

:32:27. > :32:35.very special deal for the Edinburgh Cabinet? What I would say is that of

:32:36. > :32:39.course financial services is of huge importance to our economy and the UK

:32:40. > :32:43.economy and the economy in Edinburgh. We need to make sure that

:32:44. > :32:50.in all areas, we get the best possible deal by finding thd areas

:32:51. > :32:54.of common ground, of negoti`ting any way that is constructive to

:32:55. > :32:58.relationships that we've buhlt up with their counterparts in the

:32:59. > :33:01.European Union during the months and years ahead. That is the approach we

:33:02. > :33:09.will take on the approach that is most likely to exceed. On Friday, I

:33:10. > :33:14.am due to visit the plant in my Bridgend constituency along with my

:33:15. > :33:19.local assembly member, the First Minister for Wales. Can I bd assured

:33:20. > :33:22.that we will be talking to Ford on the same lines that has been very

:33:23. > :33:28.successfully negotiated in relation to net -- Nissan and those 2000 jobs

:33:29. > :33:42.in the Ford plant and the whder jobs in the economy will also be secure

:33:43. > :33:46.following to the's statement? We want to maintain the compethtiveness

:33:47. > :33:51.of the whole of the automothve sector and we want to build on the

:33:52. > :33:55.strength of every part of the United Kingdom, including in her

:33:56. > :34:13.constituency so it can prosper in the future. As a former... H welcome

:34:14. > :34:17.the investment by Nissan. I was not given a statement from the dispatch

:34:18. > :34:23.box at the time when I was hnvolved with launching the Nissan Ldaf. Can

:34:24. > :34:27.the Secretary of State indicated how he will secure attendance in the

:34:28. > :34:33.admissions regulation discussions that are so vital to the low carbon

:34:34. > :34:39.future of the UK automotive sector? I am delighted to make that point.

:34:40. > :34:44.One of the advantages of having the energy and the changes font that he

:34:45. > :34:48.is in the business and industrial strategy responsibilities is that

:34:49. > :34:51.these conversations can be joined up with my honourable friend the

:34:52. > :34:56.Minister of State we both share a great interest in making sure that

:34:57. > :35:04.we maintain our leadership hn green technology to the great adv`ntage of

:35:05. > :35:06.our industrial future. - many of these junior one-off special

:35:07. > :35:11.individual deals are going to have to be negotiated before the Brexit

:35:12. > :35:15.process is complete? How many will it take before the government

:35:16. > :35:23.realises that the better option for everyone would be to keep up to its

:35:24. > :35:30.manifesto prowess and keepers and -- and keep us in the single m`rket? It

:35:31. > :35:37.has been a good conclusion to discussions that we have had with

:35:38. > :35:43.Nissan. What I would say is that if all of us approach the prospect of

:35:44. > :35:47.investment either by domesthc companies for overseas investors in

:35:48. > :35:53.a positive way, we tried to understand what they need and to

:35:54. > :35:57.make sure that the economy provides the backdrop, whether it is in

:35:58. > :36:02.skills or infrastructure for research and development, to keep us

:36:03. > :36:06.competitive, then we can all prosper together. The clerk will be the

:36:07. > :36:14.orders of the day. Cultural property and complex bill in the Lords,

:36:15. > :36:19.second reading. To move the second reading I called the Secret`ry of

:36:20. > :36:26.State for culture, media and sport. Secretary Karen Bradley. Th`nk you,

:36:27. > :36:33.Mr Speaker. I beg to move that the bill now be read a second thme. It

:36:34. > :36:38.is a pleasure to introduce this bill to the house. We have waited a long

:36:39. > :36:44.time to be able to ratify the 1 54 Hague Convention and exceed to its

:36:45. > :36:49.two protocols. The need for this bill is paramount. In recent months

:36:50. > :36:55.we have seen the wanton destruction of cultural heritage in the Middle

:36:56. > :36:59.East and North Africa. Thesd tragic events are a reminder of how vital

:37:00. > :37:04.it is that the UK ratifies this convention and makes a strong

:37:05. > :37:09.statement about the importance we place on protecting cultural

:37:10. > :37:12.heritage. We fully endorse the steps taken at the International Criminal

:37:13. > :37:19.Court to prosecute war crimds relating to cultural destruction in

:37:20. > :37:24.Mali. Heritage, monuments and cultural artefacts are part of what

:37:25. > :37:27.makes a country great. Educ`ting and inspiring people and bringing them

:37:28. > :37:35.together as a nation. Sir Pdter Love, chair of the National Heritage

:37:36. > :37:39.lottery fund, was once told history is what you learn about in schools,

:37:40. > :37:46.Heritage is about who you are and where you come from. We are lucky to

:37:47. > :37:50.have a highly professional `nd dedicated heritage and musetm

:37:51. > :37:56.sector. It works extremely hard to preserve our heritage and bring the

:37:57. > :38:01.story of history to life. This work helps attract visitors to otr

:38:02. > :38:04.shores, too. We also have a duty to help protect the culture and

:38:05. > :38:09.heritage of other countries, for they are part of our shared

:38:10. > :38:13.inheritance as human beings. Many in this House have called on stccessive

:38:14. > :38:19.governments to pass this legislation. Since a commitlent to

:38:20. > :38:22.do so was first made in 2004. I would like to make special lention

:38:23. > :38:25.of my honourable friend the member is when you work and Enfield

:38:26. > :38:31.Southgate for the passionatd advocacy. This legislation has

:38:32. > :38:35.already been subject to comprehensive pre-legislative

:38:36. > :38:39.scrutiny. The draft bill was published in 2008 and was expertly

:38:40. > :38:49.scrutinised by the culture, media and sport Select Committee.

:38:50. > :38:57.Am delighted she's bringing forward this bill today. The point she makes

:38:58. > :39:01.about destruction were brought to everyone when that was destroyed

:39:02. > :39:05.very recently. Can she reassure the house that the 62 years we have

:39:06. > :39:11.waited since we signed the treaty, there want to be another 62 years

:39:12. > :39:16.since we bring it... Tells the Government brings into effect as

:39:17. > :39:21.well? I hope but we will get through this evening's proceedings `nd

:39:22. > :39:28.committee stage with great speed and we will therefore have Royal assent

:39:29. > :39:31.very shortly. As I was seeing, the culturally, media and select

:39:32. > :39:35.committee heard evidence from a variety of evidence and stakeholders

:39:36. > :39:37.and at the time, the committee warmly welcomed the bill and to be

:39:38. > :39:43.carefully considered the recommendations made in the report.

:39:44. > :39:47.This bill is passed for widdr package of measures that thhs

:39:48. > :39:51.Government has brought in to protect cultural heritage and becomd an

:39:52. > :39:54.international leader in this field. Earlier this year, we largely

:39:55. > :39:59.cultural protection fund whhch is being administered by the British

:40:00. > :40:03.Council. Over the next four years, organisations will be encouraged to

:40:04. > :40:08.apply to the ?30 million fund to support projects that will foster,

:40:09. > :40:13.safeguard and protect cultural heritage, especially in global

:40:14. > :40:20.conflict zones. In early 2004, the army established a joint working

:40:21. > :40:26.group which has been examinhng all issues concerning military cultural

:40:27. > :40:28.property protection. Earlier this year, Secretary of State for

:40:29. > :40:33.Defence, confirmed the Armed Forces would establish a military cultural

:40:34. > :40:38.property protection unit and the MoD is considering what this unht might

:40:39. > :40:41.look like. Taking into accotnt international best practice. As the

:40:42. > :40:47.convention is likely to become an international TD obligation by early

:40:48. > :40:49.2017, the MOD anticipates the recruitment of specialist Army

:40:50. > :40:58.reserves whilst out in the near future. Of course. I want to

:40:59. > :41:02.congratulate my friend, 60 xears has been a long time but it's wdll worth

:41:03. > :41:09.it. Isn't the irony that part of the topicality of this bill is that it

:41:10. > :41:19.comes from seeing the horrors of Syria and elsewhere but this bill

:41:20. > :41:25.doesn't fully cover the acthvities of Daesh, they are not covered by

:41:26. > :41:28.that. Since the Government hs supportive of looking at future

:41:29. > :41:34.conventions that to make sure that Daesh comes with those convdntions,

:41:35. > :41:38.to make sure that Syrian sanctions to cover the gap. I would p`y

:41:39. > :41:42.tribute again to my honourable friend and his work on camp`igning

:41:43. > :41:46.on this issue. He rightly identifies the issue is that there are a

:41:47. > :41:54.sanction regimes in place rdgarding both the Iraqi and Syrian conflicts.

:41:55. > :41:59.He also touches on the issud about Daesh and it standing in thd

:42:00. > :42:04.international legal circles. I would be very happy to write to hhm about

:42:05. > :42:10.the specifics of the issue but I think we ought to take great care

:42:11. > :42:16.that we don't deal with one wrong by creating more wrong elsewhere. I

:42:17. > :42:20.will write to him about that. Turning to the convention itself,

:42:21. > :42:24.the convention was prompted by the widespread destruction and looting

:42:25. > :42:27.of cultural property in the Second World War. The convention ddfines

:42:28. > :42:32.cultural property as a movable or immovable property and great

:42:33. > :42:36.importance to the cultural heritage of every people, such as monuments,

:42:37. > :42:40.works of art or buildings whose main purpose is to contain such cultural

:42:41. > :42:44.property, the definition is broad and the list of examples is not

:42:45. > :42:49.exhaustive. As well as tradhtional works of art, it was made clear

:42:50. > :42:54.during discussions on the other the definition could also include modern

:42:55. > :43:02.digital pipes of cultural property such as very rare unique film

:43:03. > :43:04.recorded music. -- types. Would my right honourable friend also agree

:43:05. > :43:12.that some of the cultural property we could also talk about is

:43:13. > :43:16.religious and ethnic culturd, including languages, poetry and

:43:17. > :43:23.other forms of art and heritage that have so long been ignored that are

:43:24. > :43:28.now being destroyed in Iraq, the UCD is any since any current struggling

:43:29. > :43:32.to keep any form of culture at all? My honourable friend makes ` very

:43:33. > :43:35.important point that he will acknowledge and accept that that is

:43:36. > :43:45.beyond the convention itself. Therefore, beyond this bill. He

:43:46. > :43:49.makes an important point. The first protocol requires parties to seize

:43:50. > :43:53.cultural property that have been illegally exported from an occupied

:43:54. > :43:56.territory and to return it `t the end of hostilities. The second

:43:57. > :44:00.protocols that are violations that are to be made criminal offdnces and

:44:01. > :44:06.provides an enhanced protection regime for cultural propertx. The UK

:44:07. > :44:10.signed the Convention in 1944 but decided not to ratify because its

:44:11. > :44:14.terminology was considered to be insufficiently clear and it did not

:44:15. > :44:20.provide an effective regime for the protection of cultural propdrty The

:44:21. > :44:22.1999 second protocol removed these concerns and in 2004, the Government

:44:23. > :44:27.of the day and announced its intention to ratify. The waxs in

:44:28. > :44:30.which we will implement this specific obligation to the

:44:31. > :44:35.convention and is protocol generated a great deal of interest on the

:44:36. > :44:36.other players. We have been looking carefully at implementation,

:44:37. > :44:40.particularly considering wh`t categories of cultural propdrty

:44:41. > :44:45.should be afforded general production -- protection under the

:44:46. > :44:51.Convention in the UK. A previous Administration undertook in

:44:52. > :44:55.consultation, implementation in 2005. Whilst the majority of the

:44:56. > :45:00.findings set out in the 2006 respond to the consultation remain relevant,

:45:01. > :45:03.we will also hold discussions with key stakeholders, including from the

:45:04. > :45:09.devolved administrations and agencies to ensure these conclusions

:45:10. > :45:13.are up-to-date. Turning to the bill. This bill introduces the dolestic

:45:14. > :45:17.legislation necessary for the UK to meet the obligations contained in

:45:18. > :45:21.the convention and its two protocols. Part two of the bill

:45:22. > :45:26.makes an offence to commit ` serious violation of the second protocol to

:45:27. > :45:31.the convention, either in the UK or abroad. The bill also makes

:45:32. > :45:36.provision to ensure that offences committed abroad can be prosecuted

:45:37. > :45:40.and ensures commanders and superiors can be held responsible in

:45:41. > :45:43.appropriate circumstances. Following debate on the other place, we made

:45:44. > :45:48.minor and technical teams to ensure the bill's provisions relatdd to

:45:49. > :45:52.offences have the intended dffect in Scotland. This amendment was tabled

:45:53. > :45:57.by the Government following consultation with the Crown Office

:45:58. > :46:00.and the Scottish Government. We have also change the headings of part to

:46:01. > :46:05.enclose three by replacing the word breach with violation. Therd was

:46:06. > :46:08.concern expressed in the other place there was a lack of consistdncy

:46:09. > :46:16.between the language of the bell and of the second protocol. We lade this

:46:17. > :46:18.change to address this. I al grateful to epithet of UCL for his

:46:19. > :46:24.work on this particular point and in the girl as a whole. I apprdciate

:46:25. > :46:28.all of the advice and feedb`ck we have received from experts hn the

:46:29. > :46:32.field, which has been invaltable in shaping this bill. The maxilum

:46:33. > :46:38.penalty for these offences hs 3 years. It is important to elphasise

:46:39. > :46:42.that this is the maximum penalty. It will be for courts to decidd the

:46:43. > :46:45.appropriate penalty in any particular case. It is crithcal to

:46:46. > :46:49.penalty reflects the seriousness of the violations of the second

:46:50. > :46:54.protocol and is consistent with other penalties for related

:46:55. > :46:58.offences. Part three of the bill recognises in UK law, the blue

:46:59. > :47:01.Shield, the distinctive blud and white emblem created by the

:47:02. > :47:07.convention which is viewed by many as the cultural equivalent of the

:47:08. > :47:10.Red Cross. The emblem will be used to identify cultural property which

:47:11. > :47:14.is protected under the convdntion as well as the people tasked whth

:47:15. > :47:20.protecting it. It will be protected from this use by making unatthorised

:47:21. > :47:24.use an offence. Part four of the bill implement measures to deal with

:47:25. > :47:30.cultural property that has been unlawfully exported from occupied

:47:31. > :47:34.territory. Of course. I am very grateful. She will know was 17 it

:47:35. > :47:37.says it an offence for a person to deal and unlawfully exported

:47:38. > :47:41.cultural property knowing or having reason to suspect that it h`s been

:47:42. > :47:46.unlawfully exported. You cotld have an unreasonable reason. Will the

:47:47. > :47:51.Government be open to suggestions that we might improve this so that

:47:52. > :47:58.people aren't unwittingly c`ught by the law? This is a point th`t has

:47:59. > :48:01.been raised outside of thosd plays with me by a number of honotrable

:48:02. > :48:08.and right honourable member 's, including my right honourable friend

:48:09. > :48:11.who is the previous Secretary of State and my honourable and Lauren

:48:12. > :48:16.had friends from Harborough, there is concern about this. It w`s not a

:48:17. > :48:19.matter that was raised substantively in the other players but I do

:48:20. > :48:26.understand there are concerns and, therefore, my honourable frhend the

:48:27. > :48:31.undersecretary and myself whll meet concerned parliamentarians with

:48:32. > :48:35.officials to make sure that we do have comfort on this becausd I think

:48:36. > :48:43.it's important we can be cldar that this bill will not hamper the way

:48:44. > :48:46.the market operates. If I c`n go back to part four of the bill, it's

:48:47. > :48:49.important to note this part of the bill only applies to cultur`l

:48:50. > :48:55.property that has been unlawfully exported from in occupied tdrritory

:48:56. > :49:04.after 1956 when the conventhon came into force. Clause 17 creatds a new

:49:05. > :49:09.offence in dealing with unl`wfully exported cultural property. This

:49:10. > :49:12.offence only applies to unl`wfully exported cultural property that is

:49:13. > :49:17.imported into the UK after the commencement of this bill which

:49:18. > :49:20.ensures the bill will have no retrospective application.

:49:21. > :49:23.Scrupulous dealers have no reason to fear prosecution nor increased

:49:24. > :49:29.business costs under the spdll. Would she not accept that there

:49:30. > :49:34.would have been some property deal with perfectly legally and know that

:49:35. > :49:38.country is any worse situathon then suspicion will fall on everx item,

:49:39. > :49:45.whether it is lawful and whdther it isn't? I don't think that that is

:49:46. > :49:52.what will happen. That's not what the bill intends. I am very happy

:49:53. > :49:55.together with my honourable friend, the minister, to speak to colleagues

:49:56. > :50:01.can spend time with officials to make sure we are all satisfhed. We

:50:02. > :50:06.want to see the Hague Convention brought into UK law is. 62 xears is

:50:07. > :50:09.too long. We want to get on with it. We want to make sure we do so anyway

:50:10. > :50:18.that parliamentarians are s`tisfied and happy will deliver the desired

:50:19. > :50:21.effect. Whilst dealers will be to satisfy themselves through due

:50:22. > :50:24.diligence there is no reason our cause to suspect that objects

:50:25. > :50:28.presented for sale have been unlawfully exported from an occupied

:50:29. > :50:32.territory, existing codes of conduct already obliged dealers not to

:50:33. > :50:36.import, export or transfer the ownership of objects were ehther

:50:37. > :50:40.have reasonable cause to believe the object has been exported in

:50:41. > :50:44.violation of another countrx's laws. Dealers will not be required to

:50:45. > :50:48.carry out any further due dhligence beyond that which they should

:50:49. > :50:52.already be conducting. In order to commission, a dealer must ddal in an

:50:53. > :51:00.object knowing having reason to expect that it has been unl`wfully

:51:01. > :51:05.exported. If a dealer takes temporary... They will not be

:51:06. > :51:10.dealing in that objects bec`use they are not acquiring the object. The

:51:11. > :51:14.rest of part for outlines the circumstances in which unlawfully

:51:15. > :51:17.exported cultural property would be liable to forfeiture and crdates the

:51:18. > :51:24.necessary new power of entrx, search, seizure and forfeittre. Part

:51:25. > :51:28.five of the bill provides ilmunity from Caesar or forfeiture from

:51:29. > :51:31.cultural property that is bding exported to the UK or through the UK

:51:32. > :51:36.to another destination for safekeeping during an armed

:51:37. > :51:39.conflict. Finally, part six ensures that if an offence under thd bill is

:51:40. > :51:44.committed with the consent or connivance of an officer of the

:51:45. > :51:48.company or a Scottish partndrship, for example directors of prhvate

:51:49. > :51:54.military contractors, that officer will be guilty of an offencd as well

:51:55. > :51:59.as the company partnership. There is already a legal framework in place

:52:00. > :52:04.designed to tackle the illicit trade in cultural property. The ddaling in

:52:05. > :52:09.cultural objects offences act 2 03, the theft act 1968 and the Syria and

:52:10. > :52:14.Iraq sanctions orders enabld the UK stick action where authorithes

:52:15. > :52:18.suspect individuals might bd engaged in a illicit trade. This helps to

:52:19. > :52:20.strengthen the framework in relation to cultural property that h`s been

:52:21. > :52:25.taken illegally from occupidd territories. In addition to enabling

:52:26. > :52:29.prosecution, the existing legislation also has an important

:52:30. > :52:32.deterrent effect, sending ott the message that the UK will not

:52:33. > :52:37.tolerate any illicit trade hn cultural property. As well `s

:52:38. > :52:44.providing teeth that can be used when required, this bill will

:52:45. > :52:47.strengthen the deterrent effect I am grateful to my right honourable

:52:48. > :52:52.friend and she knows I might support this bill. She was talking `bout

:52:53. > :52:55.enforcement and greater teeth for this legislation, why did she think

:52:56. > :53:02.it is only one prosecution has been made in this country since the

:53:03. > :53:09.cultural objects offences act of 2003? Shouldn't we have dond better

:53:10. > :53:13.by now? I think my honourable friend actually helps to make the point

:53:14. > :53:20.about the deterrent effect of the legislation, it is deterring dealers

:53:21. > :53:25.from taking cultural property that has been stolen from occupidd

:53:26. > :53:29.territory. Clearly, law enforcement and others need to understand the

:53:30. > :53:34.legislation, the offences and the action can be taken in order to four

:53:35. > :53:35.prosecutions to be brought hf there is evidence has been crime

:53:36. > :53:51.committed. Along with the other initiatives we

:53:52. > :53:55.have set in motion in this `rea we will have ensured in the strongest

:53:56. > :54:00.terms possible that the UK will be a champion for cultural protection in

:54:01. > :54:07.times of peace and war alikd. I commend this bill to the hotse. The

:54:08. > :54:15.question is that the bill bd read a second time. Can I welcome the

:54:16. > :54:21.second reading of the cultural property armed conflict Lords Bill

:54:22. > :54:26.can thank the Secretary of State for her introduction. It has bedn a long

:54:27. > :54:33.time coming as it enables the 1 54 Hague Convention to be ratified It

:54:34. > :54:45.is only taken 62 years. Back then Winston Churchill was Prime

:54:46. > :54:49.Minister. The Liberals had only six seats in parliament at that time, so

:54:50. > :54:55.some things don't change, even though that the passage of 62 years.

:54:56. > :55:01.The destruction and theft of cultural heritage goes back long

:55:02. > :55:05.before 1954. Even before thd Second World War, the events of whhch

:55:06. > :55:12.triggered the convention in the first place. Honourable members will

:55:13. > :55:18.remember that there was a -, it was in 1700 BC that the assailant -

:55:19. > :55:22.that the Assyrians invaded Mesopotamia, now called the Lee

:55:23. > :55:28.Jewitt in Iraq, and stalled the stone gods of the Arab tribds and

:55:29. > :55:32.took them back to make sure the Arabs had to negotiate to gdt the

:55:33. > :55:39.gods back. The current treatment of cultural artefacts in the exact same

:55:40. > :55:47.locations has progressed so little over the intervening 3500 ydars It

:55:48. > :56:01.is worth, given the destructive potential of modern weapons of war

:56:02. > :56:05.-- it is worse. A draft bill was published in 2008 which was

:56:06. > :56:09.scrutinised by the Select Committee. Unfortunately, it ran out of time,

:56:10. > :56:13.but we are pleased to see that the government agrees on the importance

:56:14. > :56:21.of protecting cultural propdrty and of making that priority Nol`n by

:56:22. > :56:25.introducing this bill. We hope that these principles of mutual respect

:56:26. > :56:30.and Corporation will permeate throughout all of government

:56:31. > :56:36.policies from Nyon. Cultural property is targeted becausd it

:56:37. > :56:40.matters. My honourable friend who lives in her place campaign very

:56:41. > :56:44.effectively for the governmdnt as well as other honourable melbers who

:56:45. > :56:49.the Secretary of State menthoned, to bring forward this bill. Shd wrote

:56:50. > :56:54.that arts, statues, architecture, these are not the rules of society

:56:55. > :56:59.but a fundamental part of the fabric. She is not alone in that

:57:00. > :57:06.belief. It is shared even bx those whose first priority is my fly

:57:07. > :57:10.correctly elsewhere. The he`d of the International order of the Red Cross

:57:11. > :57:15.has said why is the Red Cross worried about buildings and books

:57:16. > :57:20.when human lives are usuallx our focus best he said I will always

:57:21. > :57:26.argue that a human life is lore valuable than a cultural object but

:57:27. > :57:29.cultural is essential to thd identity of one and that is an

:57:30. > :57:36.important factor for communhties and nations. I just wanted to ptt on the

:57:37. > :57:40.record my thanks to the honourable member for Bishop Auckland. I feel

:57:41. > :57:46.to do so in opening remarks and I wanted to put that on the rdcord.

:57:47. > :57:52.Can I thank the Secretary of State for that. It is characteristically

:57:53. > :57:57.generous offer to do so. Thdy Hague Convention is based on my consensus

:57:58. > :58:03.that cultural property, mov`ble and immovable, is central to iddntity

:58:04. > :58:07.and the items which embodied the past other society and it

:58:08. > :58:10.encapsulates its ideas and often its ideals. It is due to this consensus

:58:11. > :58:15.on the importance of cultur`l property that attacks on it recently

:58:16. > :58:22.have drawn the attention of the international media. Daesh's

:58:23. > :58:29.destruction of Palmyra and the demolition by Al-Qaeda of mosques in

:58:30. > :58:31.Timbuktu have caused intern`tional outrage, quite rightly. The

:58:32. > :58:43.destruction of cultural property adds another level of pain. Cultural

:58:44. > :58:47.property is a precious resotrce and when the conflict is over, lonuments

:58:48. > :58:53.and their equivalents are kdy to kick starting tourist relatdd

:58:54. > :58:57.industries, for example. Cultural property can also be crucial to

:58:58. > :59:05.economic regeneration. Would he also include in this well it is obvious

:59:06. > :59:09.to look at the brutality of the more common common example of th`t is

:59:10. > :59:16.seen in the Golden Mosque of Samarra, whether ethnic cle`nsing of

:59:17. > :59:21.churches in places like Mostl. Cultural destruction of thing goes

:59:22. > :59:29.in hand with forms of ethnic cleansing? I strongly agree with him

:59:30. > :59:39.on that point. Returning to Palmyra, it was visited each year prhor to

:59:40. > :59:45.2011 by 150000 tourists. I TNESCO mission to the site this ye`r found

:59:46. > :59:51.that the triumphal arch had been smashed to smithereens. Preserving

:59:52. > :59:55.and restoring as much of thdse ancient structures is cruci`l to

:59:56. > :00:01.rebuilding. This bill aims to provide both ways and Means for

:00:02. > :00:06.states to be able to do so hn this respect, the offences and stbsequent

:00:07. > :00:10.sanctions created by this bhll for damaging cultural property `re

:00:11. > :00:15.particularly welcome, as is the introduction of immunity from siege

:00:16. > :00:18.for cultural property being moved through the United Kingdom from an

:00:19. > :00:23.area of armed conflict for safekeeping. It is important to note

:00:24. > :00:28.that the UK Armed Forces already abide by the terms within the bill

:00:29. > :00:31.and respect cultural property during complex and the impact assessment

:00:32. > :00:35.that accompanies this bill shows of their behaviour with the ch`nge

:00:36. > :00:41.little at all as a result of the introduction of the bill. However,

:00:42. > :00:44.ratifying the 1954 convention would send a clear signal to the

:00:45. > :00:48.international community of what we already know at home, that

:00:49. > :00:54.preservation of cultural property is a priority to the United Kingdom.

:00:55. > :00:58.However, there are consequences for morale as well as for money when

:00:59. > :01:04.monuments are destroyed and Winstone is turned to stand. When it comes to

:01:05. > :01:11.art and architecture, we expect continuity, longevity, bridge

:01:12. > :01:13.between what was and what whll be. Honourable members will be familiar

:01:14. > :01:20.with the words of John Keats who will about the Grecian urn, when old

:01:21. > :01:26.age this generation wastes, you shall remain in midst of other

:01:27. > :01:28.worlds, a friend of man. Just as preserving culture is about

:01:29. > :01:34.projecting pride in history, so the destruction of cultural property is

:01:35. > :01:44.bound up in power and subjugation. An interview was given to the BBC

:01:45. > :01:49.last year. When the man was 26, the Taliban took over his city hn a van

:01:50. > :01:55.Stam and ordered him to destroy the Buddhas. The Buddhas were up to 55

:01:56. > :02:01.metres tall, carved into a cliff face in the sixth century. The

:02:02. > :02:05.Taliban believed they were hdols. This man was fed very littld, left

:02:06. > :02:09.freezing cold at night and saw his fellow prisoners shocked. Hd was

:02:10. > :02:15.then forced to detonate trucks of dynamite below the Buddhas `nd that

:02:16. > :02:19.didn't work they carried out two or three explosions every day tntil

:02:20. > :02:23.they were destroyed. He said, we drilled holes into the stattte of

:02:24. > :02:29.put in the dynamite. We didn't have proper tools. The whole process to

:02:30. > :02:33.25 days. He said I regretted it at that time, I regret it now `nd I

:02:34. > :02:37.will always regret it. He s`id that they could not resist, did not have

:02:38. > :02:43.a choice because they would have killed me. This brings to mhnd the

:02:44. > :02:49.tragic death of the archaeologist who had worked at Palmyra for 4

:02:50. > :02:55.years and was 82 years old `nd was brutally murdered by Daesh hn August

:02:56. > :02:58.last year for refusing to rdveal the whereabouts of Palmyra's trdasures.

:02:59. > :03:04.That leads me onto one of the central concerns about the bill

:03:05. > :03:08.although we are supporting the bill throughout its latter stages. It has

:03:09. > :03:12.been brought forward in the context of the aftermath of the destruction

:03:13. > :03:18.of cultural treasures in recent complex, but this bill does not

:03:19. > :03:23.cover the actions I have just been describing because they werd carried

:03:24. > :03:29.out by occupying forces that are not recognised states. So, it whll

:03:30. > :03:33.prevent extremists, and I hope the Minister will correct this hf I am

:03:34. > :03:38.wrong, necessarily from inthmidating people into compliance. Can she tell

:03:39. > :03:45.us in responding to the deb`te whether that is in its scopd or

:03:46. > :03:52.powers? I am genuinely imprdssed by his knowledge of Mesopotami`n and

:03:53. > :04:05.other archaeology. His own party's stone by Ed Miliband might be seen

:04:06. > :04:13.as an match. -- an homage. Ht may well take another convention to

:04:14. > :04:19.change the UNESCO Convention in order for it to take on the modern

:04:20. > :04:24.phenomena which is terrorist groups, as well. Would he support asked to

:04:25. > :04:32.go see been internationally for us to get the law brought up-to-date?

:04:33. > :04:35.I'm sure the house would support any international negotiations to stop

:04:36. > :04:40.these horrible crimes. We would be very supportive of the government

:04:41. > :04:44.should seek to further negotiate international agreements to that

:04:45. > :04:51.effect. I am conscious of the fact that this bill gives basically. . It

:04:52. > :04:57.allows the convention to be brought into UK law as well as giving effect

:04:58. > :05:00.to the protocols of 1954 and 19 8. It is limited in that sense on its

:05:01. > :05:06.scope. It is important to point out our discussion, that while `ll of us

:05:07. > :05:09.understand the context in which this issue has become more and more

:05:10. > :05:16.pressing in recent years in relation to what has gone on particularly in

:05:17. > :05:22.ancient Mesopotamia and moddrn Iraq and also modern Syria, that

:05:23. > :05:25.nevertheless this bill does not deal necessarily with the perpetrators of

:05:26. > :05:32.those particular crimes. Thdre may be other ways in which they could be

:05:33. > :05:35.dealt with, for example of TK citizens engaged in this activity,

:05:36. > :05:41.fighting on the side of Daesh and Syria, they might well be c`ught by

:05:42. > :05:44.other aspects of UK law. Th`t does not been that the penalties

:05:45. > :05:54.available the same as under the convention here. We have bedn

:05:55. > :05:57.focused on a little bit on trying to prevent further outrages such as

:05:58. > :06:03.those that there have been, but would he agree that the British

:06:04. > :06:10.Museum here plays an absolutely vital role in trying to protect many

:06:11. > :06:15.of the Mesopotamian antiquities around the world, not only hn their

:06:16. > :06:20.own place but also in modern day Iraq and Syria, and they were

:06:21. > :06:26.Infosys contact than anybodx I think with those who were summoned airily

:06:27. > :06:30.executed. Would he like to congratulate the honourable member

:06:31. > :06:33.for Newark? From the moment he arrived on the size this has been

:06:34. > :06:42.one of the issues he has bedn pursuing. It would be my pldasure to

:06:43. > :06:49.do so. It is always nice to hear my honourable friend being nicd to

:06:50. > :06:58.members on the other side as well. It has been brought forward in the

:06:59. > :07:03.context of these events, but I think it is important to note what this

:07:04. > :07:06.bill will want to. It won't necessarily prevent extremists from

:07:07. > :07:16.intimidating people into colpliance in the way described in rel`tion to

:07:17. > :07:20.Afghanistan. We do welcome the ratification of the 1954 convention.

:07:21. > :07:24.It is part of an international project to try to make sure that we

:07:25. > :07:28.will be faced with gaping craters were statues once stood. I would ask

:07:29. > :07:33.the Minister to be absolutely clear about what the bill does and doesn't

:07:34. > :07:39.cover. The British Museum is a wonderful institution. Of course, we

:07:40. > :07:43.should recognise if we are being candid that our own hands are not

:07:44. > :07:48.entirely historically clean in relation to the removal of cultural

:07:49. > :07:53.property. It was something that did occur in Britain's colonial history

:07:54. > :07:58.and was used to build British wealth and power at the direct expdnse of

:07:59. > :08:04.colonised nations. Recent speculation concerning the

:08:05. > :08:10.repatriation of the Parthenon marbles as well as campaigns to

:08:11. > :08:14.return the coughing your di`mond to India and a bronze cockerel to

:08:15. > :08:23.Nigeria show that the remov`l of cultural property does reverberate

:08:24. > :08:29.centuries later. He is revisiting this old canard, but would he

:08:30. > :08:36.acknowledged that the Elgin marbles would not exist had they not been

:08:37. > :08:41.for the saving by people who endowed the British Museum? The British

:08:42. > :08:44.Museum is a world Museum. More than 7 million people visited,

:08:45. > :08:47.substantially more than people who visit the Parthenon itself? These

:08:48. > :08:52.are treasures of the world that can be seen in the best possibld context

:08:53. > :08:54.rather than decontextualised and only open to a few hair havd to pay

:08:55. > :09:06.an admission fee elsewhere. I've spent my whole life st`rting

:09:07. > :09:11.fights and then running awax from them, Mr Speaker. That's wh`t

:09:12. > :09:18.happens when you are quite small. What I would say is that I think we

:09:19. > :09:21.should occasionally remember that there have been times during the

:09:22. > :09:29.course of history when we h`ve removed cultural property from

:09:30. > :09:33.others during warfare and indeed sometimes destroyed cultural

:09:34. > :09:37.property. This convention only applies to event after 1954 so

:09:38. > :09:42.fortunately we don't have is to revisit all of those into mtch

:09:43. > :09:45.greater detail, otherwise wd would have the SNP on about the Stone of

:09:46. > :09:52.skin before we knew it and we would all be in trouble. He's alrdady got

:09:53. > :09:56.it in his speech. The particular attention paid to exporting property

:09:57. > :10:01.from occupied territories in part four of the bill is especially

:10:02. > :10:05.important. With Britain's hhstory in mind, a ramification of this part of

:10:06. > :10:08.the protocol could be said to indicate that we have learnt

:10:09. > :10:12.something from any transgressions there may have been in the past and

:10:13. > :10:18.that the UK is committed to supporting other states and avoiding

:10:19. > :10:21.that sort of event. I do understand the Minister might correct le if I'm

:10:22. > :10:26.wrong, no one was ever charged with the destruction of the bidddrs,

:10:27. > :10:33.which brings me to some of the technical concerns about thd bill.

:10:34. > :10:37.-- Vidal. Can she say how the Hague Convention would apply to the

:10:38. > :10:43.conflict in Afghanistan and as such, recent conflicts? There are bits of

:10:44. > :10:49.the convention is written in 19 0 the recent component... It was

:10:50. > :10:53.written in the early years of the Internet and will not sufficiently

:10:54. > :10:58.protect property which takes a digital form. We have come ` long

:10:59. > :11:03.way from the days of John Kdats s Grecian urn, the success of the

:11:04. > :11:07.landmark legal case against Cabrera last Friday is part of an ongoing

:11:08. > :11:11.love ought to bring legislation up-to-date with digital adv`ncements

:11:12. > :11:25.and the Government needs to bear that in mind. -- rebirth. -, Uber.

:11:26. > :11:29.Lord Stevenson raised this hssue in the Lords with regards to what is

:11:30. > :11:35.defined as cultural propertx during this bill's committee stage and

:11:36. > :11:42.received assurances from thd Government that the wording was

:11:43. > :11:45.flexible enough to encompass technological advancements. I ask

:11:46. > :11:50.the minister if she is willhng in her summing up to reinforce those

:11:51. > :11:52.reassuring but digital form`t are equally protected and including in

:11:53. > :12:02.this bill's definition of ctltural property. Because it's 1954, some of

:12:03. > :12:06.the definitions might seem to be slightly archaic. Some of the finest

:12:07. > :12:11.cultural objects in this cotntry include things like the archive at

:12:12. > :12:14.the BFI which I have visited and which contain what can only be

:12:15. > :12:19.described as a treasure trove of culture of this country. I think

:12:20. > :12:24.confirmation from the Government that these kind of cultural

:12:25. > :12:29.artefacts are covered by thd bill in bringing the convention to the UK

:12:30. > :12:33.would be very helpful. I want to raise one to questions about how it

:12:34. > :12:37.joined thinking as in relathon to this. During the bill's second

:12:38. > :12:42.reading in the Lords, it was referred to the Ministry of

:12:43. > :12:47.Defence's plans to create a squad of monuments men and presumablx women

:12:48. > :12:51.as well. A group whose focus it would be to safeguard cultural

:12:52. > :12:56.property during armed conflhcts and they would soldiers as I understand

:12:57. > :13:01.it with archaeology qualifications and the like. Meanwhile, thd

:13:02. > :13:07.Department for Education has been campaigning against so-calldd soft

:13:08. > :13:10.subjects and has led to exal boards ending the archaeology A-level as

:13:11. > :13:15.well as art history A-level and classical civilisation A-levels A

:13:16. > :13:18.QAA explained the decision to cut archaeology by seeing our ntmber-1

:13:19. > :13:22.priorities making sure everx student get the result we deserve and the

:13:23. > :13:27.number of very specialist options we have to offer in the subject's exam

:13:28. > :13:32.creates too many risks on that front. I'm not sure, Mr Spe`ker how

:13:33. > :13:36.not offering an exam subject is going to make it any less specialist

:13:37. > :13:39.than it already is. LAUGHTER

:13:40. > :13:43.But on the decision to stop offering the history of Art, the state of the

:13:44. > :13:46.decision has nothing to do with the importance of the history of Art and

:13:47. > :13:54.will not stop students going on to a degree it. This is flawed as it

:13:55. > :13:58.seems in logic. It doesn't lake a pretty picture overall, let alone a

:13:59. > :14:08.masterpiece of any kind. If the Ministry of Defence was mord

:14:09. > :14:11.soldiers with art and history and archaeology knowledge. The

:14:12. > :14:15.Department for Education is cutting those same subjects from our

:14:16. > :14:17.classrooms and all the whild the Department for culture and ledia

:14:18. > :14:22.sport is ratifying conventions proclaiming this is a national

:14:23. > :14:27.priority. He is making a very fine speech. Had spent any time hn

:14:28. > :14:32.office, art history is what surrounds you, archaeology hs what

:14:33. > :14:36.your equipment and history of art is often what you are eating. H don't

:14:37. > :14:42.feel there is need for any luch more qualification the mat. I've

:14:43. > :14:46.obviously spent a lot less time in office and he has. Nevertheless I

:14:47. > :14:50.spent a lot of time in the clash as a teacher and I think that ` lot of

:14:51. > :14:54.these subjects does undermine the stated aim is that the Government is

:14:55. > :14:58.putting forward in relation to this and it seems to me is that ht

:14:59. > :15:02.shouldn't be just perhaps, H will say this very carefully, those

:15:03. > :15:05.who've had the access to thdse subjects through having had a

:15:06. > :15:09.private education who may wdll form a disproportionate number of people

:15:10. > :15:13.who are officers in the Armdd Forces. If he will correct le on

:15:14. > :15:17.that score, I will like him too Should it be just you to qu`lifying

:15:18. > :15:19.for those jobs that the MOD is the unnecessary and for this monument

:15:20. > :15:26.squad that will be recruited in order to deal with these issues

:15:27. > :15:29.Perhaps the Minister in sumling up can indicate which to outline here

:15:30. > :15:34.and you will produce a very creative argument to explain it all to the

:15:35. > :15:38.house. I've outlined some of the issues with this building h`d to be

:15:39. > :15:42.clarified, however, we support the bill's principles because they

:15:43. > :15:46.firmly chime with our own. Because the convention is the belief we must

:15:47. > :15:50.cooperate to promote human well-being. The 1954 convention

:15:51. > :15:54.least damage to cultural property belongs to any people whatsoever,

:15:55. > :15:59.means damage to the cultural heritage of all. Since each people

:16:00. > :16:02.make its contribution to thd culture of the world. This is a belhef we

:16:03. > :16:05.have on our side champion throughout history that everyone is entitled to

:16:06. > :16:11.the culture, heritage, direct express it, is excess of ond and is

:16:12. > :16:14.tied to that of society, we must work with solidarity and each other

:16:15. > :16:18.because we are all the bettdr for it when we do so and given the

:16:19. > :16:23.unfortunate and occasionallx ugly tone of political discourse in

:16:24. > :16:27.recent times, that is a welcome reminder of internationalist values

:16:28. > :16:35.and shared civilisation and culture. In this context, we have had an

:16:36. > :16:39.increase in attacks since the Brexit wrote. This bill recognises that we

:16:40. > :16:45.are preserving our collective past in cultures is more important to

:16:46. > :16:48.them than ever despite heritage It is a signal to the internathonal

:16:49. > :16:52.community, not just our international priority but the UK's

:16:53. > :16:56.willingness to cooperate in an international scale and that we can

:16:57. > :17:00.often enact change better together. The cultural property bill @rmed

:17:01. > :17:03.Forces conflict bills, sorrx, it's a welcome told that while occ`sionally

:17:04. > :17:07.there may be some rhetoric from the Government that goes towards Little

:17:08. > :17:15.England, Britain still has great aspirations to play a leading role

:17:16. > :17:17.in this world. Perhaps this bill isn't controversial but at least it

:17:18. > :17:23.will be a small beacon that the Government recognises divishon is

:17:24. > :17:29.not the way forward. We havd more digging through cooperation

:17:30. > :17:31.internationally, we should dxtend Syrian people fleeing conflhct the

:17:32. > :17:36.same expect we give to the `ncient architecture and monuments so we

:17:37. > :17:40.would be opposing the bill today cut. Rather, we hope it will

:17:41. > :17:48.permeate throughout the Govdrnment passed back principles. Thank you,

:17:49. > :17:53.Mr Speaker. I am delighted to welcome this second reading of the

:17:54. > :17:59.spell. As has been pointed out already, this is a bill that we have

:18:00. > :18:06.welcomed in the past. I chahred the select committee that considered the

:18:07. > :18:10.draft Bill in 2008 and we stbjected it to pre-legislative scruthny. At

:18:11. > :18:14.that time, we welcome the intention of the Government to introdtce it,

:18:15. > :18:19.we pointed out that then it was 55 years since the adoption of the

:18:20. > :18:24.Hague Convention and that already 118 countries had signed it. Now,

:18:25. > :18:30.another eight years have passed since then and I am proud that it

:18:31. > :18:33.should now finally be introduced. To go one the statute book by `

:18:34. > :18:40.Conservative Government in hts second session in office. At the

:18:41. > :18:47.time that we took evidence, it was pointed out to us that therd had

:18:48. > :18:55.been some examples of damagd caused to heritage assets, especially some

:18:56. > :19:01.in Babel during the course of the Iraq war. Carried out by co`lition

:19:02. > :19:04.forces, not deliberately, which highlighted the importance of

:19:05. > :19:11.stressing the need to protect cultural assets. Of course. I just

:19:12. > :19:16.want to ask a question to do with cluster munitions. He just tsed the

:19:17. > :19:22.word inadvertently in referdnce to the fact that some cultural objects

:19:23. > :19:24.are destroyed and water. Thd use of cluster munitions because they can

:19:25. > :19:28.be so indiscriminate and spread across a wide area is one of the

:19:29. > :19:32.reasons cultural objects ard destroyed. Is it not incumbdnt on us

:19:33. > :19:38.now as the country having ghven up these musicians ourselves to try and

:19:39. > :19:45.persuade all our allies to do the same? -- munitions. I sympathise. It

:19:46. > :19:49.is certainly the case that `ll signatories of the convention it

:19:50. > :19:54.should do their utmost to prevent damage to cultural assets and those

:19:55. > :19:58.that have been identified as being culturally important and I would

:19:59. > :20:03.expect our allies who are signatories to adopt that approach

:20:04. > :20:10.as much as we do. As has already been raised, there is a hugd gulf

:20:11. > :20:21.between what may have happened by forces in the Iraq war and what we

:20:22. > :20:27.have seen in recent years c`rried out by Daesh in Syria. The priority

:20:28. > :20:32.is the humanitarian crisis `nd the loss of life has to be prevdnted,

:20:33. > :20:37.the destruction of cultural asset is hugely damaging. It is part of the

:20:38. > :20:42.national identity of the people it is part of their history. It is also

:20:43. > :20:49.potentially part of their s`lvation for when hopefully the conflict

:20:50. > :20:53.comes to an end. Cultural assets can represent economic assets, from

:20:54. > :20:57.which one can be build an economy by attracting people to visit. It is

:20:58. > :21:03.also part of a world heritage and we all have a duty to do our utmost to

:21:04. > :21:08.safeguard it. It was for th`t reason I was delighted when the Government

:21:09. > :21:12.established the cultural protection fund worth ?30 million and H would

:21:13. > :21:16.like to pay tribute to the former Chancellor of the Exchequer and the

:21:17. > :21:19.former Secretary of State for International Development for their

:21:20. > :21:23.part in agreeing to that because a large part of it can be classified

:21:24. > :21:29.as international aid. I would also like to pay tribute and he has

:21:30. > :21:33.already been mentioned to Ndil MacGregor, the driving forcd for the

:21:34. > :21:41.establishment of the fund. He and I launched it together and he is the

:21:42. > :21:44.director of the British Musdum took responsibility for the spechfic

:21:45. > :21:50.first phase, the ?3 million fund administered by the British Museum,

:21:51. > :21:56.to send archaeologists into Iraq to advise and help in the restoration

:21:57. > :22:04.for damage had taken place. I was also immensely privileged to meet

:22:05. > :22:16.the Director general of anthquities in Syria. He was the boss of... He

:22:17. > :22:22.described the courage shown by his colleague who did not wish to die

:22:23. > :22:29.about queer very vulnerable artefacts had been revealed and was

:22:30. > :22:33.beheaded by Daesh. The decision to ratify the Hague Convention is not

:22:34. > :22:37.going to... The question about whether Daesh come under thd

:22:38. > :22:42.definition of occupying forces, even if they did, one has to admht that

:22:43. > :22:46.it seems unlikely the passage that is going to prevent them carrying

:22:47. > :22:52.out such horrific shot at e`se. It does send a very important signal.

:22:53. > :22:53.It will have an effect on otr own forces and the select committee

:22:54. > :23:05.heard from the Ministry of Defence. While I appreciate his points on

:23:06. > :23:09.this bill being unlikely to dissuade Daesh from their actions, it may

:23:10. > :23:12.affect the financial abilitx to support themselves because one of

:23:13. > :23:18.the ways they are filling the conferences by selling lootdd

:23:19. > :23:23.artefacts. He makes an extrdmely good point. Most of the attdntion

:23:24. > :23:29.has been on the wilful destruction, but he is right that there hs also a

:23:30. > :23:33.trend which is providing finance to Daesh, and we must do everything to

:23:34. > :23:39.stamp about. That is why I support the principle that it should be

:23:40. > :23:44.unlawful to deal in them legally exported cultural property. That is

:23:45. > :23:48.something that I want to cole onto. I do want to pay tribute to the

:23:49. > :23:52.efforts already made by the Ministry of Defence and commanders in the

:23:53. > :23:57.field to abide by the terms of the convention, even though it has not

:23:58. > :24:01.been ratified at the time. We heard from the MoD taking evidencd, and

:24:02. > :24:05.they said they would review and strengthen the commitment already

:24:06. > :24:10.given that training should take account of the absolute priority of

:24:11. > :24:15.abiding by the requirements of the convention. The Select Commhttee did

:24:16. > :24:21.hear concerns about one aspdct of the bill and I just want to refer to

:24:22. > :24:25.that. That is the offence of dealing in unlawfully exported culttral

:24:26. > :24:29.property. The first concerndd we heard was about the definithon of

:24:30. > :24:35.what are occupied Territorids. At the time we were told that ht was a

:24:36. > :24:38.very narrow definition, a vdry narrow group of countries or

:24:39. > :24:44.territories that could be considered occupied. In 2008 the impact

:24:45. > :24:49.assessment and the Golan Hehghts, East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

:24:50. > :24:53.Unfortunately, since that thme the list of occupied countries have

:24:54. > :25:00.grown. I would draw attention to Crimea. I do think that for the

:25:01. > :25:05.purposes of certainty for those dealing in cultural objects it would

:25:06. > :25:10.help to clarify exactly which Territories we do consider ` night

:25:11. > :25:18.to be occupied. The more serious concern related to clause 17, which

:25:19. > :25:21.makes it an offence to deal in unlawfully exported cultural

:25:22. > :25:27.property, knowing or having reason to suspect that it has been

:25:28. > :25:34.unlawfully exported, and as has already been pointed out by the

:25:35. > :25:40.legal advisers, there is a huge difference between having rdason to

:25:41. > :25:47.suspect and to suspect, and that is causing some concern. The

:25:48. > :25:50.requirements, or the definition of the of fence having reason to

:25:51. > :25:58.suspect gets into what I believe the lawyers call mens rea. Have a to my

:25:59. > :26:04.learned friend who would sax a little bit more on this with greater

:26:05. > :26:10.expertise than myself. It w`s something that we had flaggdd up to

:26:11. > :26:15.us when we looked at the bill eight years ago, which is why we suggested

:26:16. > :26:20.that there should be a clear requirement of dishonesty. That is

:26:21. > :26:24.what currently applies in the theft act, which carries a penaltx of

:26:25. > :26:33.seven years, and the dealing in cultural property offences `ct which

:26:34. > :26:41.also carries seven years. It seemed reasonable to us that the s`me

:26:42. > :26:44.threshold should be required. I am delighted to hear from the Secretary

:26:45. > :26:54.of State that she is aware of that concern and is going to havd

:26:55. > :26:58.discussions about it. He is making a very important point. Is he aware of

:26:59. > :27:02.how many people have been convicted under the cultural offences dealing

:27:03. > :27:08.objects act? My understanding is that it might be very low, or even

:27:09. > :27:14.zero. This was a point raisdd my honourable friend just a little bit

:27:15. > :27:18.earlier. The fact that therd haven't been convictions does not

:27:19. > :27:22.necessarily mean that it is not working. It is an important thing to

:27:23. > :27:28.have on the statute book. I do not believe that this country is full of

:27:29. > :27:36.dodgy art dealers who will wilfully ignore the law and deal in what are

:27:37. > :27:41.clearly illegally exported objects. We should not lower the thrdshold in

:27:42. > :27:46.order to scoop up innocent people. He makes a perfectly valid point. I

:27:47. > :27:51.agree with him. I do think that the art market, they support thd bill.

:27:52. > :27:56.The last thing they would w`nt to see is this country become ` place

:27:57. > :28:00.where people could deal in unlawfully exported objects. It is

:28:01. > :28:05.worth also bearing in mind that the art market is hugely compethtive and

:28:06. > :28:11.it is worth something like 8 billion in sales in 2014. The third biggest

:28:12. > :28:17.in the world. I would not lhke to see them had inadvertently `t a

:28:18. > :28:20.disadvantage compared to other markets around the globe. I hope

:28:21. > :28:22.that is something that the government will bear in mind. I very

:28:23. > :28:44.much welcome the commitment given. May I begin by saying that we on

:28:45. > :28:49.these benches and the Scotthsh Government very much welcomdd the

:28:50. > :28:53.bill and the purpose that it serves. The government can be assurdd of

:28:54. > :28:57.getting this much needed pidce of legislation through parliamdnt in

:28:58. > :29:01.order to put in place the ndcessary domestic legislation to enable the

:29:02. > :29:06.UK to ratified the Convention for the protection of cultural property

:29:07. > :29:13.in the event of armed conflhct, and to exceed to both the 1954 `nd a

:29:14. > :29:20.1999 protocols. I do share the concerns expressed by my honourable

:29:21. > :29:26.member for Cardiff West that a 954 convention was last updated in 999,

:29:27. > :29:31.it may lack an understanding of exactly what is required in the 21st

:29:32. > :29:35.century, particularly the role of non-state actors in modern conflict

:29:36. > :29:41.and the rule than the destrtction of cultural heritage. With that caveat,

:29:42. > :29:47.we are firmly of the opinion that no matter where it is located hn the

:29:48. > :29:51.world, we all benefit from having a rich and diverse historical and

:29:52. > :29:55.cultural heritage and that dvery effort must be made to protdct that

:29:56. > :30:00.in time of war. Indeed, at `ll times. Although there has bden

:30:01. > :30:04.widespread Parliament to support the decision going back many ye`rs, for

:30:05. > :30:09.whatever reason time has never been found in order to four prim`ry

:30:10. > :30:13.legislation to make sure th`t the UK could fully meet its obligations set

:30:14. > :30:17.out in the convention and the subsequent protocols. We have heard

:30:18. > :30:23.many honourable members say it has been a long time coming. 62 years.

:30:24. > :30:27.Had been delayed any longer it would be almost as old as some of the

:30:28. > :30:33.artefacts we were trying to protect. We welcome that that wrong hs about

:30:34. > :30:38.to be put right and very soon the United Kingdom will join with many

:30:39. > :30:42.other nations and tightening up its domestic law in regard to the

:30:43. > :30:46.protection of cultural propdrty in times of conflict. I happilx

:30:47. > :30:50.acknowledge that the UK Armdd Forces, despite the governmdnt but

:30:51. > :30:55.having ratified the conventhon, fully complies with the convention

:30:56. > :30:58.during military operation and it recognises the blue shield, the

:30:59. > :31:04.emblem that that defies cultural property that is protected tnder the

:31:05. > :31:08.Convention protocol. In rathfying the convention and protocol, the UK

:31:09. > :31:16.will formalised the responshbility of its troops when operating in

:31:17. > :31:19.armed conflict overseas. I know that in 2008 when the subject was last

:31:20. > :31:27.debated in this place, one of the main concerns raised was whdther or

:31:28. > :31:31.not such an act would constrain our troops when a military oper`tions by

:31:32. > :31:36.limiting the freedom to protect themselves should they come under

:31:37. > :31:40.fire from opposing forces b`sed in a museum or place of worship. Back

:31:41. > :31:44.then, the Ministry of Defence appeared confident that the passage

:31:45. > :31:51.of the bill would not be problematic. I am pleased that last

:31:52. > :31:56.year it the Minister for thd Armed Forces repeated that the cultural

:31:57. > :32:01.property is already upheld `cross the Armed Forces and we know that

:32:02. > :32:06.they currently act within the spirit of the convention and are also fully

:32:07. > :32:11.compliant with the statute. Given that the Ministry of Defencd are so

:32:12. > :32:15.relaxed about the consequences of ratifying the convention, both the

:32:16. > :32:21.54 protocol and 99 protocols just last year, that nothing has happened

:32:22. > :32:25.for them to have changed th`t you. Indeed, if anything, it is ` view

:32:26. > :32:30.that should have hardened as the stories and images of the w`nton

:32:31. > :32:35.destruction by Daesh of somd of the world's greatest and most ilportant

:32:36. > :32:40.heritage sites in Iraq, Libxa and Syria have become widespread. The

:32:41. > :32:45.destruction of the temples, the churches, the mosques as well as the

:32:46. > :32:49.ancient cities of Palmyra and Nimrod can only be seen as a delibdrate and

:32:50. > :32:54.calculated temp two raise otr collective human experience. They

:32:55. > :33:00.are an unspeakable and barb`ric attack on thousands of years of

:33:01. > :33:07.human progress and civilisation The UNESCO director-general was

:33:08. > :33:15.absolutely right when she branded the activities of Daesh as ` form of

:33:16. > :33:20.cultural cleansing. What Dadsh are doing in the wilful desecration and

:33:21. > :33:26.pillaging of the artefacts on these sites is a shameful and inexcusable

:33:27. > :33:30.crime against all of humanity. Let's be absolutely clear, not evdrything

:33:31. > :33:36.that Daesh is doing can simply be dismissed as malicious vand`lism or

:33:37. > :33:42.trying to raise all traces of a pre-Islamic civilisation as there is

:33:43. > :33:45.irrefutable evidence that wdnt Daesh sees a new city, the first thing

:33:46. > :33:52.they do is plunge of the museums and cultural sites for artefacts to

:33:53. > :33:57.raise much-needed cash. The looting of priceless artefacts is done for

:33:58. > :34:01.profit and the flood of stolen Mac -- stolen antiquities being smuggled

:34:02. > :34:08.into the open arms of collectors in Europe and America shames us all. As

:34:09. > :34:13.Michael Dante, the Boston archaeologist, said last ye`r, what

:34:14. > :34:19.started as an opportunistic theft by some has turned into an org`nised

:34:20. > :34:23.transnational business that is helping to fund terror. Mr Speaker,

:34:24. > :34:30.irreplaceable artefacts are being robbed from our and already

:34:31. > :34:34.beleaguered people and sold on the black market to the fabulously

:34:35. > :34:40.wealthy elite, and elite whose money is in turn funding Daesh and the

:34:41. > :34:44.murderous campaign. I am delighted that this bill will also make it a

:34:45. > :34:48.criminal offence to deal in cultural property that has been illegally

:34:49. > :34:53.exported from a territory that has been occupied during armed conflict.

:34:54. > :34:59.This is, in my opinion, a mdasure that is long overdue and very

:35:00. > :35:03.welcome. We urge the UK Govdrnment to actively and vigorously hmplement

:35:04. > :35:07.the measures outlined in thd second protocol of 1999 and to bring to

:35:08. > :35:12.justice those individuals who engage and profit from this illegal and

:35:13. > :35:22.totally immoral trade in stolen ancient artefacts. As a respected

:35:23. > :35:26.Lebanese French archaeologist told the Independent's Robert Frhsk last

:35:27. > :35:32.year, already in London there are antiquities from Palmyra on sale.

:35:33. > :35:36.She explained that Daesh Selva statues, the stone faces and the

:35:37. > :35:40.frescoes to the internation`l dealers. Daesh take the mondy, then

:35:41. > :35:45.blew up the temples and the buildings in order to conce`l the

:35:46. > :35:50.evidence of what has been looted and, presumably, to help protect the

:35:51. > :35:56.identities of their paymastdrs, the dealers and collectors from across

:35:57. > :35:59.Europe and America. The dirdctor of the programme partnership of

:36:00. > :36:04.international Council of museums describe what is happening hn the

:36:05. > :36:08.Middle East as the larger scale mass destruction of cultural Herhtage

:36:09. > :36:13.since the Second World War. This has to stop and hopefully this

:36:14. > :36:17.legislation in creating a ndw offence for a person dealing in

:36:18. > :36:21.cultural property knowing or having reason to suspect that it h`s been

:36:22. > :36:24.unlawfully exported from an occupied territory will go some way to

:36:25. > :36:29.stopping it and we very much welcome that. The purchase of plunddred

:36:30. > :36:35.antiquities in these circumstances is deeply immoral. If this bill can

:36:36. > :36:41.stop that trades and bring those guilty of dealing in looted

:36:42. > :36:46.artefacts to justice for th`t served much of this purpose. At people s

:36:47. > :36:52.cultural heritage is a cruchal part of who they are and what thdy were

:36:53. > :36:55.in the past. For almost all communities in the world it is a

:36:56. > :37:00.symbol whose importance cannot be overstated. What also cannot be

:37:01. > :37:06.overstated is the social and economic importance that th`t

:37:07. > :37:11.cultural heritage will be in helping Syria, Iraq, Libya and others once

:37:12. > :37:15.Daesh is defeated, to begin to recover. I sincerely hope that this

:37:16. > :37:20.bill will ensure that post-conflict there are plans in place to repair

:37:21. > :37:24.as much of the damage as possible and as much of the cultural heritage

:37:25. > :37:29.is returned to those communhties as we can possibly get. It is hncumbent

:37:30. > :37:33.on all of us and the rest of the world to help them regain those

:37:34. > :37:39.immensely important and sochally valuable tangible reminders of the

:37:40. > :37:49.cultural identity, around whth those communities can prepare in tseful

:37:50. > :37:54.times -- peaceful times. Thd work of protecting our cultural herhtage

:37:55. > :37:58.must continue in peace time also. In the spirit of the convention, we

:37:59. > :38:01.would urge that the governmdnt take this opportunity to return the

:38:02. > :38:08.Parthenon marbles to Greece where they belong. The passing of this

:38:09. > :38:11.bill and the ratification of these protocols provide this government

:38:12. > :38:18.with an excellent opportunity to lead by example and celebrate the

:38:19. > :38:18.ratification of this convention with a highly appropriate and long

:38:19. > :38:31.overdue gesture. Let me reiterate the position of the

:38:32. > :38:35.Scottish Government. It is the UK Government to extend to an

:38:36. > :38:40.international convention such as the Hague Convention. Similar standards

:38:41. > :38:44.should be applied across thd UK The UK Government bill contains all

:38:45. > :38:48.provisions which are necess`ry to enable implementation and the

:38:49. > :38:53.convention in the UK while laking appropriate provision for Scotland.

:38:54. > :38:56.It is a review of the members of these benches of the Scottish

:38:57. > :38:59.Government that is in the interest of the Scottish people and good

:39:00. > :39:03.Government is that provisions outlined in the bill should be

:39:04. > :39:09.considered by the UK Parlialent and we will support its passage through

:39:10. > :39:13.this place. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak brieflx in this

:39:14. > :39:16.debate. I may not be able to preserve of the conventions as I

:39:17. > :39:21.will be hosting an event shortly for the Holocaust educational trust

:39:22. > :39:25.which is pertinent because ht is worth reminding the house that we in

:39:26. > :39:30.the UK have been very much hn advance of many other nations in

:39:31. > :39:34.terms of how we have dealt with explanation, the unlawful t`king of

:39:35. > :39:39.goods from the Jewish community during the Second World War. That

:39:40. > :39:44.issue has been handled extrdmely well in this country, it bodes well

:39:45. > :39:50.for going forward this country will handle aspects under the Hague

:39:51. > :39:55.Convention. One waits six ydars for a bill and then two come along at

:39:56. > :40:04.once, like buses. It is a great pleasure to be able to speak in both

:40:05. > :40:08.debates. This bill itself h`s - is one that I wanted very long time as

:40:09. > :40:11.a minister. I remember lookhng forward to the last Labour

:40:12. > :40:16.Government bringing it forw`rd, it is then failed by the wayside as the

:40:17. > :40:21.election approached and I argued for six years to get this bill brought

:40:22. > :40:24.forward. For some reason, the Government's business managdrs

:40:25. > :40:27.didn't see the importance btt I am glad under this new Governmdnt they

:40:28. > :40:32.do understand how important this bill is. Many officials havd brought

:40:33. > :40:35.it to fruition but I should mention Hillary Bower who brought the bill

:40:36. > :40:42.forward and so long has it been that she has now retired. Of all my

:40:43. > :40:45.honourable friends and membdrs may Hayes tonight, may I partictlarly

:40:46. > :40:49.pick out my honourable friend the member for Munich who has bden so

:40:50. > :40:53.good on the issue of cultur`l protection and engaged with both

:40:54. > :40:58.myself and the Right Honour`ble member for modern on this issue

:40:59. > :41:03.There are three issues I wish to bring the House's attention to, the

:41:04. > :41:09.Minister's attention for whdn she sums up. Given having watchdd the

:41:10. > :41:14.video of her doing it the l`st week, I know summing up will be something

:41:15. > :41:19.to behold. I hope she will lake clear our own troops will not be at

:41:20. > :41:24.risk under this convention. The bill makes it clear it is this the

:41:25. > :41:29.intentional destruction of cultural property that it comes withhn the

:41:30. > :41:37.scope, something our British troops could never be accused of doing The

:41:38. > :41:40.already act within the terms of the convention and its wonderful here to

:41:41. > :41:44.hear the Ministry of Defencd is working with the Department of

:41:45. > :41:47.culture, media and sport to setup the 21st century monument mdn of

:41:48. > :41:52.people made up from the Armx reserves and I would welcomd

:41:53. > :41:55.anything she has to say on progress there. On the question of sdction

:41:56. > :42:00.17, my understanding is this convention has been in placd in

:42:01. > :42:03.Germany for the last ten ye`rs and I know of no cases where art dealers

:42:04. > :42:08.have unwittingly been brought within scope of the convention. I think the

:42:09. > :42:12.legislation is very clear on this point, Mr Speaker, that there must

:42:13. > :42:20.be some degree of suspicion on the part of any dealer before they could

:42:21. > :42:23.possibly be brought to speak. Any noble profession that exists in this

:42:24. > :42:29.country of art dealers and antiquities dealer, any dealer who

:42:30. > :42:32.had a suspicion that somethhng had been looted are trafficked hnto this

:42:33. > :42:38.country would immediately alert the authorities. They have nothhng to

:42:39. > :42:42.fear from this legislation. May I focus in what is left of my very

:42:43. > :42:47.brief remarks on the cultur`l protection fund. This is very close

:42:48. > :42:52.to my heart and something I campaigned for it as a minister

:42:53. > :42:55.wholly unsuccessfully on thd back of Neil MacGregor, the then director of

:42:56. > :42:59.the British Museum, who said to me early on in my time is a minister

:43:00. > :43:04.that the British Museum and many of our other national museums do

:43:05. > :43:07.extraordinary work in many different jurisdictions, supporting the work

:43:08. > :43:10.of archaeologists, the presdrvation of antiquities in other

:43:11. > :43:13.jurisdictions. I was wholly unsuccessful and to the honourable

:43:14. > :43:18.member for Newark brought up the issue. The issue of Palmeiro also

:43:19. > :43:24.change the Chancellor's mind and I am glad that we have no stulped up

:43:25. > :43:29.most of the money for this cultural protection fund. It is frustrating

:43:30. > :43:35.that the terms within which it operates in the alleviation of

:43:36. > :43:40.poverty seem to preclude it helping out in these areas. Our nathonal

:43:41. > :43:47.museums do this work all ovdr the world. It seems wholly legitimate

:43:48. > :43:51.but international development fans should support the scaling tp of

:43:52. > :43:54.people in developing countrhes in terms of their archaeologic`l

:43:55. > :43:58.expertise as well as the preservation of their culture. This

:43:59. > :44:05.seems to be without doubt something we should support. I would trge them

:44:06. > :44:11.to take the cultural protection point as the start as the

:44:12. > :44:15.preservation of antiquities and the scaling up of archaeological schools

:44:16. > :44:20.are in the world. People mentioned in the other place we could become a

:44:21. > :44:24.repository, digital archive for some of the great treasures in the world

:44:25. > :44:27.as well as the centre for the blue sheets. And with out the Secretary

:44:28. > :44:38.of State to take that. I can't resist the bait of the Scottish

:44:39. > :44:45.spokesman from the end SNP. This is Italy great disservice to mdntion

:44:46. > :44:48.the Elgin marbles. They havd been preserved to be very highest

:44:49. > :44:54.standards possible in the greatest museum in the world, which hs my

:44:55. > :44:59.honourable friend the member of Worthing pointed out, is thd world

:45:00. > :45:05.museum open to all, free of charge, for the Elgin marbles are sden in

:45:06. > :45:11.posting condition by millions of people and their recently ldarned

:45:12. > :45:15.and sent to Russia for even more people to see showing that the

:45:16. > :45:21.British Museum preserves thd Elgin marbles, not very national

:45:22. > :45:25.self-interest but for the world Mr Speaker, it is a great pleasure to

:45:26. > :45:32.follow the minister. He will recall the many occasions I asked `bout

:45:33. > :45:35.this very issue and he told me that he intended to legislate as soon as

:45:36. > :45:41.possible. I know he will be pleased this day has now come. This bill is

:45:42. > :45:45.very important. Not only do this country but also for protecting the

:45:46. > :45:50.cultural property worldwide. We need to play our part in that to insure

:45:51. > :45:55.and safeguard the cultural `nd religious heritage of the world The

:45:56. > :45:58.UK is the only member of thd UN Security Council which has not yet

:45:59. > :46:01.ratified the Convention and we seek to change that tonight. Irap

:46:02. > :46:06.application as a result of this bill would be an important step towards

:46:07. > :46:10.the UK becoming the first pdrmanent member of the UN Security Council to

:46:11. > :46:17.ratify Convention and protocols I am very pleased about that. Aware

:46:18. > :46:21.the opposition when it publhshed the draft culture property bill back in

:46:22. > :46:24.2008 and it was regretted bx many of us that didn't pass but as the

:46:25. > :46:28.opposition spokesman said, the Government ran out of time. I am

:46:29. > :46:33.pleased they are now supporting legislation tonight. Back in

:46:34. > :46:36.January, I called upon the Leader of the House To bring forward this bill

:46:37. > :46:41.in the Queen's speech and I am pleased the Government have chose to

:46:42. > :46:45.do so tonight. The destructhon of cultural capital is a powerful

:46:46. > :46:50.propaganda tool, part of a long history of demoralising comlunities.

:46:51. > :46:54.The opposition spokesman has already mentioned the mini rate perhod but

:46:55. > :47:00.in this country, the Vikings started it. We have seen in Syria the

:47:01. > :47:05.continued destruction in pl`ces like Palmeiro and indeed that is why this

:47:06. > :47:10.bill has now come forward tonight as a result of that continual

:47:11. > :47:14.catastrophe. That isn't the first catastrophe or conflict that has

:47:15. > :47:20.gone before. The Government says the bill will ensure the UK can act and

:47:21. > :47:23.be seen to act legitimately according to international responses

:47:24. > :47:29.to crises such as that in Sxria As pointed out by the Baroness in the

:47:30. > :47:35.other plays, the bill will lean that UK national fighting with D`esh in

:47:36. > :47:37.Syria will be subject to prosecution, theft or

:47:38. > :47:42.misappropriation or any acts of vandalism against cultural property.

:47:43. > :47:46.I don't share her confidencd in that. I asked the Home Office how

:47:47. > :47:51.many UK nationals had travelled overseas to engage in terrorist

:47:52. > :47:55.activity and they have subsdquently returned to the UK. The response

:47:56. > :47:58.came and I could rent a linked individuals had travelled to engage

:47:59. > :48:03.in a complex and began and just under half of those have returned to

:48:04. > :48:06.which I asked if the question, which was, how many have now been