12/01/2017

:00:00. > :00:00.support for disabled people who are in work. Points of order will come

:00:07. > :00:11.later. We now come to the select committee statement. The chair of

:00:12. > :00:13.the women inequalities select committee, the right honourable

:00:14. > :00:20.member for Basingstoke, will speak for up to ten minutes, during which

:00:21. > :00:25.no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of her statement I

:00:26. > :00:28.will call members to put questions on the subject of the statement and

:00:29. > :00:37.call Mrs Maria Miller to respond to these in turn. Members can expect to

:00:38. > :00:42.be called only once. Interventions should be questions and should be

:00:43. > :00:46.brief. The French bent -- front bench may take part in questioning.

:00:47. > :00:52.I remind the house that ordinarily such a statement and questioning on

:00:53. > :00:57.it can be a spectator to take in total approximately 20 minutes. I

:00:58. > :01:04.called the chair of the women and equality select committee Mrs Maria

:01:05. > :01:06.Miller. I would like to thank the backbench business committee for

:01:07. > :01:11.this opportunity to make a statement to the house on the fifth report of

:01:12. > :01:16.the women inequalities committee on women in the House of Commons after

:01:17. > :01:20.the next general election in 2020. The successful preparation of all

:01:21. > :01:24.our reports depends on the hard work of the committee's clerks and staff,

:01:25. > :01:27.the diligence of honourable members who make up our committee and I'm

:01:28. > :01:33.glad to see my honourable friend the member for Portsmouth South and the

:01:34. > :01:38.member for Bath here today. Also the generosity of our witnesses, who

:01:39. > :01:42.give up their time to prepare and take part in our sessions and I

:01:43. > :01:48.particularly like to thank my right honourable friend the member for

:01:49. > :01:53.Derbyshire Dales, Islington North, Moray and the honourable member from

:01:54. > :01:56.Westmorland and Lonsdale, all of whom enthusiastically shared their

:01:57. > :02:01.views and the work of their respective parties with the

:02:02. > :02:05.committee. If 100 years ago, Mr Speaker, the suffragettes who fought

:02:06. > :02:11.for women's rights fought for our right to be elected to sit in this

:02:12. > :02:18.place were told that just 455 women would be elected to this place over

:02:19. > :02:23.the next ten decades, I'm not sure whether they would have laughed or

:02:24. > :02:27.cried. I think they would be proud the United Kingdom had seen two

:02:28. > :02:32.female prime ministers but the facts are that there are as many men

:02:33. > :02:39.sitting in this place today as there are women ever elected to be members

:02:40. > :02:48.of Parliament. At the moment we have 195 women MPs, and 455 men. And I

:02:49. > :02:51.have yet to see any evidence to suggest that women are less

:02:52. > :02:55.qualified than men to represent their communities or that women

:02:56. > :02:58.don't want to have the opportunity to be a member of Parliament to

:02:59. > :03:05.improve the lives of those who live in their community. Therefore this

:03:06. > :03:09.startling imbalance should cause all of us a great deal of concern,

:03:10. > :03:14.because at best we are failing to reach out, and at worst the parties

:03:15. > :03:20.who are in the most part responsible for selecting candidates are failing

:03:21. > :03:22.in their due to. The select committee's report provides an

:03:23. > :03:28.evidence -based set of recommendations to change that, to

:03:29. > :03:31.help ensure Britain does not slip further down the global rankings for

:03:32. > :03:37.the rubber dissipation in parliament and to promote a more representative

:03:38. > :03:42.parliament, and to make this place a stronger place. Our report has

:03:43. > :03:44.consciously focus on female representation but our

:03:45. > :03:48.recommendations showed, we feel, open up discussions on how to secure

:03:49. > :03:56.improved diversity in other areas too. A parliament with more black

:03:57. > :03:59.and ethnic minority representation, more disabled members, ensure that

:04:00. > :04:04.the debates we have, the laws we have are going to be better. Of

:04:05. > :04:06.course the report builds on significant work that has already

:04:07. > :04:13.been done relating to representation and Parliament such as the report of

:04:14. > :04:16.the Speaker's Parliament convened by yourself. Also the cop brands of

:04:17. > :04:21.work done by Professor Sarah Childs, who produced a good Parliament

:04:22. > :04:24.guide. The trigger for this new report was the boundary commissions

:04:25. > :04:29.initial proposals for reducing the size of Parliament to 600

:04:30. > :04:33.constituencies. There is no reason why this should inversely impact

:04:34. > :04:38.women or any other group, but these proposals would mean that more than

:04:39. > :04:41.20 women MPs would see their seats to all intents and purposes

:04:42. > :04:46.disappear, and if political parties don't take action, this will mean a

:04:47. > :04:52.lower proportion of women MPs in the next general election. As of the

:04:53. > :04:54.committeerecommendations are for government political parties and

:04:55. > :04:59.Parliament itself, because we all have to take responsibility. Our

:05:00. > :05:02.Kieran accommodations for more transparency from parties on the

:05:03. > :05:05.work they are doing to improve candidate selection, and we feel

:05:06. > :05:09.that the government should majorly bring into force the statutory

:05:10. > :05:13.requirement for political parties to publish their Parliamentary

:05:14. > :05:17.perversity data fit general elections as set out in section 106

:05:18. > :05:23.of the equality act so that we can properly scrutinise the record of

:05:24. > :05:25.parties in selecting a diverse slate of Parliamentary candidates.

:05:26. > :05:31.Secondly that the government should seek to introduce in legislation in

:05:32. > :05:34.this Parliament is statutory minimum proportion of female candidates in

:05:35. > :05:39.general elections for each political party, and we have proposed a

:05:40. > :05:44.minimum 45% of women. This measure would only be brought into force if

:05:45. > :05:47.the number of proportion of women MPs fails to increase significantly

:05:48. > :05:50.after the next general election. Thirdly as part of our

:05:51. > :05:54.recommendations we have also set out a domestic target of 45% for the

:05:55. > :05:59.representation of women in parliament and local government by

:06:00. > :06:09.2030. This really is to inform the work being done by ONS to

:06:10. > :06:11.established domestic indicators for the UN sustainable develop and goals

:06:12. > :06:13.and a particular goal five, an indicator that my right honourable

:06:14. > :06:16.friend the member for Putney and also David Cameron fought hard for

:06:17. > :06:19.when these goals were established, goals that apply to the UK as well

:06:20. > :06:22.as other members of the UN. To make progress these measures need to have

:06:23. > :06:25.real teeth, which is by the committee has also recommended that

:06:26. > :06:29.the remit of the electoral commission be extended to introduce

:06:30. > :06:32.fines for noncompliance. In our evidence, sessions of the German and

:06:33. > :06:37.leaders of the political parties it was evident there is enormous

:06:38. > :06:40.support for more representative parliament, and indeed each one

:06:41. > :06:47.agreed that Parliament would be a better place if 50% of MPs were

:06:48. > :06:50.women. But we need to turn those warm sentiment in the bums on seats,

:06:51. > :06:53.and I hope that is not unparliamentary language, Mr

:06:54. > :06:59.Speaker, but what the parties lack in clear and, hence if the turn this

:07:00. > :07:04.into play action. This Parliament is the mother of all parliaments but at

:07:05. > :07:09.the moment and our watch, we are letting ourselves down on a global

:07:10. > :07:14.stage. Since 1999, Britain has fallen from 25th in the world the

:07:15. > :07:19.48th in the world, in terms of female rippers in tension. This

:07:20. > :07:22.Parliament should have a clear aspiration to be the global leader

:07:23. > :07:26.for female representation and diversity more generally and the

:07:27. > :07:39.recommendations in the report can help us achieve that. The Labour

:07:40. > :07:43.Party is committed to increasing the representation of women in

:07:44. > :07:46.parliament and at every level in politics and there is a report that

:07:47. > :07:50.recognises more than half of the women on these Labour benches, 43.7%

:07:51. > :07:54.of the Parliamentary Labour Party is made up of women, and much of this

:07:55. > :08:00.is to do with Labour's commitment to short lists. Does the one lady think

:08:01. > :08:04.other parties should look to introduce short lists of their

:08:05. > :08:09.Parliamentary selections, and does she agree that parties not already

:08:10. > :08:20.taking direct positive action should do so as a matter of urgency?

:08:21. > :08:26.is a body of evidence that parties can look at. I don't think it is for

:08:27. > :08:32.a select lack -- FOI select committee to debate as to how they

:08:33. > :08:41.run their own selection procedures. That is for them but they should

:08:42. > :08:45.also be looking at the evidence. Mr Speaker, in recalling that Labour

:08:46. > :08:50.lost one of their safest seats in 2005 over the imposition of a women

:08:51. > :08:54.only short list, what role does my right honourable friend see in local

:08:55. > :08:58.associations being able to choose the candidate they think is best for

:08:59. > :09:00.that area irrespective of gender or for the voters to siding to vote for

:09:01. > :09:06.the person they think is best to represent that area irrespective of

:09:07. > :09:12.their gender? I thank my honourable friend for that question. He is

:09:13. > :09:15.absolutely right. Associations and local parties have a huge role to

:09:16. > :09:19.play in making sure they get the right person for the job in that

:09:20. > :09:24.area. But it is very surprising to see that just one in four candidates

:09:25. > :09:28.at the last general election was female. I think perhaps we need to

:09:29. > :09:33.ensure that the right training is in place, the right support in place

:09:34. > :09:39.that we have a diverse city of candidates for those associations

:09:40. > :09:43.and parties to choose from. The SNP welcomes the publication of this

:09:44. > :09:46.report. We firmly believe that all political parties should be held to

:09:47. > :09:51.account for the action they are taking to improve this democratic

:09:52. > :09:53.but is it because it is simply not acceptable in 2017 for women to be

:09:54. > :09:56.discriminated against or underrepresented whether in the

:09:57. > :10:05.boardroom, politics or anywhere else. The SNP is committed to the

:10:06. > :10:09.increased numbers of MPs and MSP selected the UK and Scottish

:10:10. > :10:13.parliaments and our gender balanced cabinet being one of the few in the

:10:14. > :10:17.world to do so. The SM people smack Scottish Government is also tasting

:10:18. > :10:20.decisive action to make sure women are represented in senior and

:10:21. > :10:23.decision-making roles including in the boardroom and our programme for

:10:24. > :10:26.government contains many ambitious commitments in support of women's

:10:27. > :10:29.equality. Can I ask if the UK Government is considering similar

:10:30. > :10:39.measures and when they will bring these into fruition? We think it is

:10:40. > :10:43.important that after the next general election if there is some

:10:44. > :10:50.progress made, -- if there is not significant progress made that 45%

:10:51. > :10:53.of candidates should be female. She mentioned equal representation in

:10:54. > :10:59.patent -- cabinets and I was heartened to see Justin Trudeau when

:11:00. > :11:03.he became president in Canada saying what the jerks pectin 2016, I think

:11:04. > :11:12.which say what should we expect in 2017? My right honourable friend

:11:13. > :11:15.mentioned the excellent report by Professor Sarah Childs. Would you

:11:16. > :11:21.agree some of those recommendations would also help to pre-empt more

:11:22. > :11:24.women into Parliament? My honourable friend from Portsmouth South is

:11:25. > :11:29.right. We are building on firm foundations here. I think that

:11:30. > :11:33.Parliament itself has to look very carefully at its operation to ensure

:11:34. > :11:37.that it is doing everything it can to encourage all women to come

:11:38. > :11:40.forward. Historically we have looked very closely at things like child

:11:41. > :11:45.care, family friendly working. I think also we should be looking very

:11:46. > :11:48.carefully at some of the dissuading effects that the violence, online

:11:49. > :11:52.abuse that female members experience, how that can actually

:11:53. > :11:57.put people off as well. That is just as important, and something the

:11:58. > :12:00.house needs to take very seriously. When John Bright first coined the

:12:01. > :12:03.term other Parliament, he was saying that even England, which was the

:12:04. > :12:06.mother of Parliaments, had still not brought for -- Paul Dummett proceed

:12:07. > :12:10.to the country because the vast majority were not able to vote, so

:12:11. > :12:13.now we are coming up to the hundredth anniversary of some women

:12:14. > :12:17.in 1918 being allowed to vote, isn't one of the biggest problems finance?

:12:18. > :12:21.Because many women are paid less still than men, and working class

:12:22. > :12:22.candidates still find it very difficult to get selected because it

:12:23. > :12:32.is a very expensive business? This is something which came out in

:12:33. > :12:35.the report that the cost of becoming a Member of Parliament can be very

:12:36. > :12:39.steep indeed and is therefore sometimes outside of if reach of

:12:40. > :12:44.some people, whether they are male or female. The parties need to ask

:12:45. > :12:48.themselves very carefully the onty obstacles they put in the way of

:12:49. > :12:52.candidates and whether they can lessen them either through financial

:12:53. > :12:56.support or not. My own party, the Conservative Party have looked at

:12:57. > :13:01.them very carefully and given practical help in the past.

:13:02. > :13:07.Can I say to my honourable honourable friend that I basically

:13:08. > :13:16.backed what she's aiming for, but put a caution on one or two issues.

:13:17. > :13:24.The number of women MPs what had to match the number. When my wife was

:13:25. > :13:30.first in Parliament it was 5%. Now it is 30%. It is important not to

:13:31. > :13:35.think that Governments should require Parliament and parties to do

:13:36. > :13:38.things. But one of them is not putting people into Parliament. It

:13:39. > :13:41.should be giving people the opportunities and experience,

:13:42. > :13:45.whether they can be chosen on merit with necessary luck. My honourable

:13:46. > :13:49.friend makes some interesting points. Of course his wife was I

:13:50. > :13:54.think probably one of my role models when I looked at Parliament and saw

:13:55. > :13:58.the effective nature of women and the work they did here. But I only

:13:59. > :14:02.have to look at some other institutions like the University of

:14:03. > :14:07.London, who only started to admit women in 1878 but has more than 50%

:14:08. > :14:11.of its students who are female. There are other institutions who

:14:12. > :14:15.have made a journey more successfully than we have. We ask

:14:16. > :14:20.questions why progress hasn't been made more quickly. As national

:14:21. > :14:24.secretary of the SND until the end of last year I saw some successes

:14:25. > :14:29.but also some of the struggles that come with implementing all-women

:14:30. > :14:33.short list, where some cases despite having the requirement we struggled

:14:34. > :14:38.to find women candidates. What does she think can be done at the for

:14:39. > :14:42.mayive point of where people might become candidates in terms of work

:14:43. > :14:46.experience with local politicians standing for a local council or at a

:14:47. > :14:52.local party basis? The honourable gentleman is right. The work needs

:14:53. > :14:57.to go in early. I would like to applaud the work of 50/50 Parliament

:14:58. > :15:01.in the campaign they are currently running, which is Ask Her To Stand.

:15:02. > :15:05.Many honourable ladies here today will know it has been the case it

:15:06. > :15:08.has taken somebody asking women to stand for Parliament before they've

:15:09. > :15:12.done that and that early work, particularly standing for local

:15:13. > :15:14.Government can be a way of effectively building people's

:15:15. > :15:22.confidence into taking this on as a career choice.

:15:23. > :15:26.Mr David Nuttall. A man from a working class

:15:27. > :15:30.background could be discriminated against if all the proposals and

:15:31. > :15:36.recommendations in her report were accepted? My honourable friend is

:15:37. > :15:41.right and speaking as somebody who went to a council house and went to

:15:42. > :15:44.a comprehensive, I too don't want to see this place populated by an

:15:45. > :15:48.unrepresented group of people. But it is unrepresentative at the

:15:49. > :15:53.moment. So we have to, I think take some tough decisions here and rather

:15:54. > :15:58.than fail to take action because of the threat of some groups feeling

:15:59. > :16:02.discriminated against, actually put right what is a real injustice at

:16:03. > :16:07.the moment in terms of fee male representation. My Right Honourable

:16:08. > :16:15.friend for her statement and the hard work in leading our committee.

:16:16. > :16:21.The UK signed up to the universal sustainability goals where no-one

:16:22. > :16:26.was vouched to be left behind. It is embarrassing we only have 30% here

:16:27. > :16:31.in the UK. Will my Right Honourable friend join me on calling to focus

:16:32. > :16:36.on parliamentary reputation as they implement the plan? I thank my

:16:37. > :16:42.committee friend for that comment. He will know we heard yesterday in

:16:43. > :16:48.the conversation on the goals that the credibility of our country is in

:16:49. > :16:51.jeopardy if we don't donor to implement the sustainable goals,

:16:52. > :16:54.particularly goal five, which was so hard fought for by the member for

:16:55. > :17:00.Putney and David Cameron at the time. Part of that is to make sure

:17:01. > :17:05.we have significant improvements in parliamentary reputation.

:17:06. > :17:12.THE SPEAKER: Point of order. I have heard you on occasions, Sir,

:17:13. > :17:17.advising ministers from the dispatch box. I wonder if you notice the

:17:18. > :17:22.Leader of the House has a habit of either staring at the honourable

:17:23. > :17:25.member for Wellingborough or vacantly into space when answering

:17:26. > :17:31.questions from this quarter of the House? There is the question of

:17:32. > :17:35.audibility, Sir. But there is also the issue of nonverbal

:17:36. > :17:41.communication. For example, when the leader of the House was unable to

:17:42. > :17:46.dif fren cat between a 94% in Scotland compared to 88% in England,

:17:47. > :17:51.we would have seen us shaking our heads. When he made an unfonded

:17:52. > :17:55.comment of the Scottish referendum campaign he would have seen us

:17:56. > :18:01.laughing at time. So I don't want to pick out the leader of the House, in

:18:02. > :18:07.particular, but perhaps you can give kour -- encourage all members in

:18:08. > :18:14.responding to them when being asked questions in debates and statements.

:18:15. > :18:19.THE SPEAKER: Statements made in this chamber should always be

:18:20. > :18:24.communicated through a chair. The second point is that of course

:18:25. > :18:29.people speak from the dispatch box should address, and in so doing,

:18:30. > :18:33.look at the House, rather than behind them at the member to whom

:18:34. > :18:42.they might perhaps be responding. Beyond that I think I will not

:18:43. > :18:45.venure. If I were uncharitable, I would imagine that The Right

:18:46. > :18:50.Honourable gentleman was seeking against all precedent and

:18:51. > :18:56.expectation of him to propaganda. But because I am not uncharitable, I

:18:57. > :19:04.can not imagine that he was seeking to do anything of the kind.

:19:05. > :19:10.Point of order, Mr Derek Twigg. Maybe I can ask your advice, there

:19:11. > :19:19.is a proposal to site a hospital in my constituent by the Government. It

:19:20. > :19:25.has caused angst and concern. It is I have been pursuing questions for

:19:26. > :19:28.The Right Honourable member for Scarborough and Whitby. The

:19:29. > :19:33.Government seem to take a decision to put these hostels in Labour

:19:34. > :19:37.areas, mostly Labour areas. I have been trying to ascertain which

:19:38. > :19:41.parliamentary constituents that the hostels are in. The minister replied

:19:42. > :19:44.on a number of occasions. The last said that he couldn't tell me

:19:45. > :19:48.because of the safety of the asylum seekers who were there. He couldn't

:19:49. > :19:53.give me the individual locations. This is odd because on Monday night,

:19:54. > :19:57.the council will be considering a planning application for this asylum

:19:58. > :20:01.hostel, which has gone through full public consultation. I can not see

:20:02. > :20:06.how the minister can give an answer like that. If, and I put down the

:20:07. > :20:10.question, if still refuses to answer, given the information I have

:20:11. > :20:16.put forward today, what advice will he give me?

:20:17. > :20:20.THE SPEAKER: Off the top of my head, my advice is as follows, first and

:20:21. > :20:23.this would be my principal suggestion, I think that the

:20:24. > :20:32.honourable gentleman should go to the table office and seek its advice

:20:33. > :20:35.as to the nature and terms of the questions to be tableded. He

:20:36. > :20:42.muttered, I think, that he's already done that. If that has not availed

:20:43. > :20:45.him, I am disappointed to hear it. I have again, purely without prior

:20:46. > :20:51.notification of this matter, and therefore off the top of my head,

:20:52. > :20:54.two further thoughts. One is that the honourable gentleman can,

:20:55. > :21:00.without delay, seek an adjournment debate on the matter, with the

:21:01. > :21:06.relevant minister, in which he will have a face-to-face opportunity over

:21:07. > :21:10.a decent period to probe the minister with the relentlessness and

:21:11. > :21:14.tenacity for which the honourable gentleman is renowned in all parts

:21:15. > :21:19.of the House. Secondly, he can of course use Freedom of Information

:21:20. > :21:25.opportunities to try to ascertain the facts that he wants to

:21:26. > :21:28.ascertain. If neither of those approaches helps, I've got a hunch

:21:29. > :21:33.that the honourable gentleman will be raising his concern with me on

:21:34. > :21:40.the floor again. Point of order. Momentarily I felt

:21:41. > :21:44.moved to be charitable. I always thought that when I addressed you,

:21:45. > :21:50.Sir, in the chair, I was addressing the House. And if I may say so, my

:21:51. > :21:52.pleasure in so doing is magnified when I address the chair when you

:21:53. > :22:14.are occupying it. THE SPEAKER: Well! My cup runneth

:22:15. > :22:19.over, to be complimented by a parliamentarian of the repute of The

:22:20. > :22:24.Right Honourable gentleman really does cause me, for the rest of the

:22:25. > :22:30.day, to go about my business with an additional glint in my eye and

:22:31. > :22:37.spring in my step and possibly two inches taller. I'm a happy man

:22:38. > :22:40.indeed. I've always liked The Right Honourable gentleman in the 20 years

:22:41. > :22:50.I have known him. And I like him even more now. If there are no

:22:51. > :22:54.further points of order, we now come, I think he better watch

:22:55. > :23:00.himself a little bit with the Deputy Speakers in the coming days! We come

:23:01. > :23:05.to the backbench motion on Yemen to move the motion I call the chair of

:23:06. > :23:11.the International Development Select Committee of the House. Mr Twigg.

:23:12. > :23:19.Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I first of all thank the Backbench Business

:23:20. > :23:24.Committee for granting this very important and timely debate? It is

:23:25. > :23:28.good to see members from all parties in the House attending this debate.

:23:29. > :23:33.Can I pay tribute to those who have worked on this issue of Yemen for a

:23:34. > :23:37.much longer period of than I have. My interest in this has really

:23:38. > :23:41.arisen over the last year or so because of my role as chair of the

:23:42. > :23:47.International Development Select Committee. I am going to focus in my

:23:48. > :23:53.speech on the humanitarian crisis in Yemen and then on the specific issue

:23:54. > :23:57.raised in the motion around alleged violations by all sides of

:23:58. > :24:01.international humanitarian law. I will not be addressing the specific

:24:02. > :24:05.matter of arm sales to Saudi Arabia, as I know my friend and co-sponsor

:24:06. > :24:09.for the motion, the honourable gentleman, the member for Warwick

:24:10. > :24:12.and Leamington, who chairs the committees on arms export controls

:24:13. > :24:18.will be addressing this important issue if he catches your eye. The

:24:19. > :24:27.Yemen conflict began in early 2015. Less than two years ago. But it has

:24:28. > :24:33.its roots in the Arab Spring of 201 1. When the President was succeeded

:24:34. > :24:36.the movement took advantage of the new President's weakness, took

:24:37. > :24:41.control of parts of northern Yemen and later took the capital. From

:24:42. > :24:46.there, the conflict intensified with the intervention in 2015 of the

:24:47. > :24:51.Saudi Arabian-led coalition, backed by US, UK and French intelligence

:24:52. > :24:57.and on the other side the huty rebels, backed by Iraq. Yemen has

:24:58. > :25:00.been called "the forgotten crisis." For example, by Amnesty

:25:01. > :25:04.International. It is a crisis which surely we cannot ignore.

:25:05. > :25:09.The President of the International Committee of the Red Cross has said

:25:10. > :25:14.that the intensity and severity of the fighting in Yemen has left the

:25:15. > :25:20.country looking like Syria did after five years of conflict. Since the

:25:21. > :25:26.conflict began, nearly 10,000 people are estimated to have been killed,

:25:27. > :25:32.with roughly 4,000 civilians losing their lives and 37,000 injured.

:25:33. > :25:38.That is an average each day during this conflict of 75 deaths or

:25:39. > :25:46.injuries. Surely, madam, Deputy Speaker, we cannot allow this to

:25:47. > :25:50.continue. I pay tribute to my honourable friend and the committee

:25:51. > :25:54.for the work they have done on committee and the member for Warwick

:25:55. > :26:01.and Leamington. The issue here is not just the scorecard of shame that

:26:02. > :26:05.he has told the House about, it is the access for those amazing aid

:26:06. > :26:08.organisations. And that is why a ceasefire is so important. Does he

:26:09. > :26:12.agree with me that the most important aspect of what we are

:26:13. > :26:15.saying today is to get that ceasefire, so the aid can get

:26:16. > :26:19.through? I'm grateful to my friend and in

:26:20. > :26:24.particular pay tribute to his long-standing work on this issue and

:26:25. > :26:29.the work of the all-party parliamentary group on Yemen. He is

:26:30. > :26:34.absolutely right to say that a ceasefire is crucial and I'm going

:26:35. > :26:37.to come on to the issue that he raised for access for humanitarian

:26:38. > :26:41.organisations. So at the end of 2015, the International Development

:26:42. > :26:46.Select Committee decided to conduct an inquiry into the crisis in Yemen

:26:47. > :26:51.and during the course of last year, we published two reports on Yemen.

:26:52. > :26:57.The first on our own relating specifically to the humanitarian

:26:58. > :27:00.crisis, and the second in conjunction with the business

:27:01. > :27:05.committee, through the work of the committees on arms export controls.

:27:06. > :27:11.One of the recommendations in our first report was the UK Government

:27:12. > :27:15.should put pressure on all parties to the conflict to comply with their

:27:16. > :27:21.obligations under international humanitarian law that includes very

:27:22. > :27:26.importantly measures to protect civilians and as my right honourable

:27:27. > :27:32.friend reminded the House just now to allow humanitarian agencies a

:27:33. > :27:36.safe space to operate. The humanitarian situation is grave, our

:27:37. > :27:41.own government has described Yemen is one of the most serious

:27:42. > :27:45.humanitarian crisis in the world. The United Nations estimates that

:27:46. > :27:49.more than 80% of the population of Yemen, more than 20 million people

:27:50. > :27:57.are in immediate need of humanitarian assistance. 40 million

:27:58. > :28:02.people face food shortages, 19 million don't have access to safe

:28:03. > :28:08.drinking water, more than 3 million have had to flee their homes because

:28:09. > :28:14.of the conflict. The situation is particularly dire or children. The

:28:15. > :28:21.United Nations has estimated that eight children are either killed or

:28:22. > :28:26.maimed every day in Yemen and almost half of school age children are not

:28:27. > :28:29.in school. Exacerbating this we have the difficulty of access for import

:28:30. > :28:36.of essential supplies such as energy, food and medicine, this

:28:37. > :28:39.feels the humanitarian crisis. Supplies are flowing through to the

:28:40. > :28:43.country more quickly compare to six months ago and clearly that progress

:28:44. > :28:48.is welcome but levels remain significantly below the position in

:28:49. > :28:52.March 20 15. This is not only damaging the economy of the country

:28:53. > :29:00.but any further changes in their villa availability of food risk

:29:01. > :29:04.famine. The minister is on the front bench and putting over ?100 million

:29:05. > :29:08.into Yemen to help relieve some of the most pressing humanitarian

:29:09. > :29:14.challenges. The UK is the fourth largest donor to Yemen and leading

:29:15. > :29:18.the way in these humanitarian crises but we need to do more to press

:29:19. > :29:30.other countries to fund the relief of this crisis.

:29:31. > :29:35.If it's giving ?100 million to Yemen, which I support, what's

:29:36. > :29:40.happening to it because presumably it's blocked because you can get

:29:41. > :29:44.through to the people that really needed so I suppose it's in some

:29:45. > :29:50.bank or food store somewhere. The situation varies between different

:29:51. > :29:52.parts of the country but I remember seeing the right honourable

:29:53. > :30:00.gentleman sitting next to him in his previous role as the Minister, we

:30:01. > :30:03.discussed this when he came to give evidence and one of the challenges

:30:04. > :30:07.is one that the honourable gentleman has reminded us of, getting the

:30:08. > :30:10.access within the country saw the aid can get through, not necessarily

:30:11. > :30:15.requiring the UK to spend more money but to make sure we do our utmost to

:30:16. > :30:19.get the aid through and that really brings us on to the challenges of

:30:20. > :30:24.achieving a ceasefire but also political progress in Yemen as well.

:30:25. > :30:28.Even in these challenging circumstances it's working to

:30:29. > :30:34.improve food and water security and provide emergency resilience to

:30:35. > :30:38.those most at risk. Unfortunately those organisations that have been

:30:39. > :30:42.or still are in some cases on the ground helping to alleviate the

:30:43. > :30:46.humanitarian situation have told the select committee that their work has

:30:47. > :30:53.been threatened by the conflict. We know that since March 20 1513 health

:30:54. > :30:56.workers have died, 31 have been injured, the world health

:30:57. > :30:59.organisation tells us that more than 70 health centres have been damaged

:31:00. > :31:04.or destroyed completely, more than 600 have closed due to damage or

:31:05. > :31:10.shortage of supplies or staff. Last year NGO doctors of the world

:31:11. > :31:14.withdrew from Yemen because they couldn't guarantee the safety of

:31:15. > :31:16.their volunteers on the ground. The number of non-governmental

:31:17. > :31:21.organisations have told us that there is a shrinking humanitarian

:31:22. > :31:25.space in Yemen making it even more difficult for them to carry out

:31:26. > :31:29.their work. All sides of the conflict need to comply with

:31:30. > :31:34.international humanitarian law and one of the ways they should do so is

:31:35. > :31:41.to ensure that humanitarian organisations work unimpeded in

:31:42. > :31:48.Yemen. Does my honourable friend share my concern that attacks have

:31:49. > :31:55.occurred from both sides and from the Saudi led coalition even one

:31:56. > :31:57.chord notes have been provided. The attack on the hospital even though

:31:58. > :32:04.the cord were provided two weeks before. I thank my honourable friend

:32:05. > :32:08.and pay tribute to the work he's done on this issue and I agree

:32:09. > :32:12.entirely with what he says and it brings me on to the second part of

:32:13. > :32:19.my speech to the House this afternoon. The second major

:32:20. > :32:22.recommendation that came out of both reports and recommended by the

:32:23. > :32:27.Foreign Affairs Committee which disagreed with us on the question of

:32:28. > :32:32.arms sales but agreed on this issue is that there has to be an

:32:33. > :32:34.independent United Nations led investigation of alleged violations

:32:35. > :32:44.of international humanitarian law by both sides in this conflict. There

:32:45. > :32:49.have been so many allegations... I wanted to make the point in my

:32:50. > :32:59.honourable friend that all in the Foreign Affairs Committee disagreed

:33:00. > :33:02.with the report, it was a minority. If I might pay tribute to my

:33:03. > :33:06.honourable friend for her long-standing interest and activity

:33:07. > :33:11.on these issues, not least for active participation in the

:33:12. > :33:16.committees on arm export controls which perform a vital function and

:33:17. > :33:19.should continue. When I given the Foreign Affairs Committee report has

:33:20. > :33:24.been mentioned, I've intended to come in at this point, I want to

:33:25. > :33:27.point out that isn't it a fact that all three reports of the business

:33:28. > :33:30.committee, the International development committee and the

:33:31. > :33:37.Foreign Affairs Committee agreed by majority votes. I believe that is

:33:38. > :33:43.the case, certainly as was by a majority vote. All three reports are

:33:44. > :33:47.in support of this motion and therefore I'm not aware of any of

:33:48. > :33:50.those voting in the minorities in any of the was the committees doing

:33:51. > :33:53.so because they disagreed with this recommendation and I hope the

:33:54. > :33:57.honourable gentleman and I have framed the motion that can enjoy

:33:58. > :34:05.support across the House because it does. Focus on this issue of it

:34:06. > :34:08.independent investigation. The chairman of the select committee

:34:09. > :34:14.will say it was my particular concern when we took that vote and

:34:15. > :34:17.my decision is on record that this independent investigation take place

:34:18. > :34:25.and that is something which I feel very strongly about to put on record

:34:26. > :34:28.today. I thank the honourable lady who is a great member of the

:34:29. > :34:32.International development committee and I recall her focus was very much

:34:33. > :34:35.we needed to see this independent investigation first and that's why

:34:36. > :34:38.she voted in the way that she did but we were all agreed across the

:34:39. > :34:42.committee that there should be an independent international

:34:43. > :34:44.investigation and that featured in our first report as well as in the

:34:45. > :34:58.second. In May 2015, the beginning of the

:34:59. > :35:04.conflict, human rights watch accused the rebels of violations of

:35:05. > :35:08.international law in the southern Sea port city. The crimes that were

:35:09. > :35:12.highlighted including the killing of civilians and the arrest of aid

:35:13. > :35:17.workers at gunpoint. Since then they had been accused of a range of other

:35:18. > :35:23.serious alleged violations of international humanitarian law, for

:35:24. > :35:28.example the situation in the besieged city, the prevention of the

:35:29. > :35:34.import of basic commodities, medicine, propane and oxygen

:35:35. > :35:39.cylinders to that city. The United Nations expert panel has documented

:35:40. > :35:44.185 alleged abuses. As my honourable friend reminded us, medicine and

:35:45. > :35:50.some Frontier who work often in these difficult and challenging

:35:51. > :35:56.situations suffered the attacks on different hospitals in a three-month

:35:57. > :36:02.period. Last September the Yemen data Project said a third of all the

:36:03. > :36:05.Saudi led raids in Yemen have hit civilian sites on the UN High

:36:06. > :36:13.Commissioner for human rights has estimated that 66% of the civilian

:36:14. > :36:18.deaths in Yemen have been caused by Saudi led air strikes. The United

:36:19. > :36:22.Nations human rights Council... Angry with him and concur with his

:36:23. > :36:28.point but the UN panel also describe the problem facing the Saudi

:36:29. > :36:34.coalition, the GCC countries, the Houthi rebels are operating in urban

:36:35. > :36:38.areas and against international law, there are effectively using

:36:39. > :36:41.civilians as human shields and yes there are problems with Saudi air

:36:42. > :36:46.strikes, they are killing civilians but that provides a more balanced

:36:47. > :36:50.picture of how this is occurring. Indeed it does and I will seeking to

:36:51. > :36:55.absolutely be balanced in making the point that very serious allegations

:36:56. > :37:01.have been made against the Houthis and I gave two examples of that and

:37:02. > :37:11.I reiterate the point of the UN panel which is that there are 185

:37:12. > :37:15.alleged abuses, that is why this motion argues for an independent

:37:16. > :37:27.investigation. Into all those alleged abuses. I'm not going to

:37:28. > :37:30.have time to answer all the questions. On this point and I

:37:31. > :37:37.didn't want to interrupt his speech, the House is learning a lot from it,

:37:38. > :37:41.I hope you will concede this panel of experts have put this report

:37:42. > :37:45.together didn't actually visit the country in order to put this report

:37:46. > :37:49.together and we need to put that into context when monitoring and

:37:50. > :37:57.understanding what's going on, don't ignore it but somehow we should add

:37:58. > :38:00.value, they did not enter the country, they couldn't provide the

:38:01. > :38:06.necessary intelligence we do expect from a panel of UN experts. They

:38:07. > :38:09.didn't enter the country because of the challenges in the country that

:38:10. > :38:14.I've been describing, didn't wilfully decide we're not going to

:38:15. > :38:18.bother going on, with 185, this was based on serious work done by the

:38:19. > :38:21.United Nations and am disappointed that the minister is so dismissive

:38:22. > :38:28.of that. This is important because it does get used as a line to say

:38:29. > :38:32.there are over 100, the Ministry of Defence has looked at every single

:38:33. > :38:35.one of them and there were a number of them which we've asked for more

:38:36. > :38:40.information but to clarify and give information to the House, sorry to

:38:41. > :38:44.labour the point, but it was done on aerial photography with months in

:38:45. > :38:46.between, therefore we cannot ascertain unless we have more

:38:47. > :38:52.information as to whether these actual acts of atrocities were

:38:53. > :38:55.caused by the Houthis or the coalition themselves, that's the

:38:56. > :39:02.point and try to make. I agree with that and that's precisely why the

:39:03. > :39:04.motion says that we should have a fully independent international

:39:05. > :39:07.investigation into all allegations against both sides and it may well

:39:08. > :39:14.be that some of these violations have been committed by the Houthis,

:39:15. > :39:22.I didn't say 105 offences by the Saudi led coalition, alleged abuses

:39:23. > :39:27.by them and the Houthis. In supporting the honourable member,

:39:28. > :39:31.the UN panel were blocked by the Houthis from entering and the UN

:39:32. > :39:36.panel explained that in the report that the tide of living to get it.

:39:37. > :39:41.The Houthis also block the peace negotiators from leaving to go to

:39:42. > :39:48.Geneva for the peace talks as well. The Houthis have been complicit in

:39:49. > :39:52.creating this problem. He is absolutely right, I have heard

:39:53. > :39:59.nobody in all of these debates and discussions, in the international

:40:00. > :40:03.development committee suggesting the Houthis not to blame and that's why

:40:04. > :40:08.the proposal is that we should haven't investigation into abuses in

:40:09. > :40:12.all sides of this conflict. Maybe my honourable friend will be coming on

:40:13. > :40:16.to this, but the discussions seems to be going on the basis of the

:40:17. > :40:20.Saudi led coalition versus the Houthis comma is this not rather

:40:21. > :40:25.missing the very unhelpful and sinister role played by the

:40:26. > :40:30.Iranians, particularly in providing conventional weaponry and without

:40:31. > :40:35.going into the data, I would suspect that many more people have been

:40:36. > :40:40.killed, injured and dispossessed by the use of conventional weaponry of

:40:41. > :40:48.which there is steady pipeline coming into Yemen from Iran when

:40:49. > :40:56.actually by our action. I have already mentioned the role of Iran

:40:57. > :40:59.in supporting the Houthis and any independent international UN led

:41:00. > :41:02.investigation would certainly address the issue of Iranian

:41:03. > :41:06.involvement but I reiterate the point I just made which is the UN

:41:07. > :41:10.High Commissioner for human rights has estimated that two thirds of all

:41:11. > :41:17.the civilian deaths in Yemen have actually been caused by the Saudi

:41:18. > :41:21.led coalition. Indeed, isn't one of the very reasons why we need a full

:41:22. > :41:24.independent investigation that were not clear about what has been

:41:25. > :41:28.assessed and by who. The Saudis haven't given reports back on the

:41:29. > :41:32.vast majority of the allegations that have been made whether they are

:41:33. > :41:34.correct or not and were not clear what the government has or has not

:41:35. > :41:38.assessed and they change their position an abrupt end on whether

:41:39. > :41:41.they have taken an assessment or not. It needed corrections to the

:41:42. > :41:42.House and have been revealed that they make mistakes in the efforts

:41:43. > :41:53.they provided us. That enables me now to move the

:41:54. > :41:56.timeline. I'm not going to give way because I want to move on to the

:41:57. > :42:01.timeline. I'm not going to give way because I want to move on to the

:42:02. > :42:07.United Nations human rights Council discussed Yemen in September 20 15.

:42:08. > :42:11.The government of the Netherlands tabled a motion to the human rights

:42:12. > :42:16.Council that would have mandated what this motion is proposing. 16

:42:17. > :42:19.months ago the Netherlands tabled a motion that would have set up a

:42:20. > :42:25.mission to document violations by all sides of the conflict since it

:42:26. > :42:30.began. The Netherlands withdrew the draft on September 30, 2015, and

:42:31. > :42:36.instead the Human Rights Council adopted a resolution tabled by Arab

:42:37. > :42:42.states which deleted calls for an independent enquiry. On the 24th of

:42:43. > :42:49.November 2015, the Foreign Office minister told this House that Saudi

:42:50. > :42:53.Arabia was investigating reported allegations of IHL. Saying, these

:42:54. > :42:58.investigations must be concluded, the situation on the ground is very

:42:59. > :43:02.difficult and in many cases we are unable to verify what is happening

:43:03. > :43:06.on the ground. We are wanting to encourage Saudi Arabia and other

:43:07. > :43:10.parties that are involved and we want these cases looked into

:43:11. > :43:15.efficiently and properly by the country itself. That is 14 months

:43:16. > :43:18.ago. On the 3rd of February last year, almost a year ago, during

:43:19. > :43:26.questions the right honourable gentleman the former Difid minister

:43:27. > :43:29.said the government was supporting the implementation of the Human

:43:30. > :43:35.Rights Council resolution and he said the government of Yemen should

:43:36. > :43:41.investigate violations of international humanitarian law. The

:43:42. > :43:45.following day, during a business debate, the Foreign Office minister

:43:46. > :43:49.said again he had raised this issue directly with the government of

:43:50. > :43:55.Saudi Arabia. That is almost a year ago. Then we conducted our first

:43:56. > :43:58.enquiry as a committee. On July the 8th, last year, the government

:43:59. > :44:03.published its response to the report. The government response

:44:04. > :44:08.said, the UK Government is not opposing calls for an international

:44:09. > :44:14.independent investigation into the alleged breaches of IHL. But, first

:44:15. > :44:19.and foremost, we want to see the Saudi Arabian government investigate

:44:20. > :44:23.allegations of breaches of IHL which are attributed to them. That is six

:44:24. > :44:28.months ago. In August, following the corrections to which my honourable

:44:29. > :44:35.friend referred, I wrote to the Foreign Secretary regarding these

:44:36. > :44:40.corrections that have been given to P Qs and Westminster Hall debates

:44:41. > :44:43.regarding allegations of investigations of IHL. The Foreign

:44:44. > :44:49.Office's response reiterated what had been said in response to our

:44:50. > :44:53.enquiry, in other words that the Saudis should investigate. Last

:44:54. > :44:56.September during an urgent question tabled by my right honourable friend

:44:57. > :45:00.the member for Leeds Central, the minister said Saudi Arabia as to

:45:01. > :45:05.conduct thorough and conclusive investigations into incidents where

:45:06. > :45:09.it is alleged to breach IHL, and praise the fact that Saudi Arabia

:45:10. > :45:13.had released the results of eight reports in the previous month. That

:45:14. > :45:18.was four months ago. Then in October during an adjournment debate tabled

:45:19. > :45:25.by my right honourable friend from Leicester East, the Dfid Minister of

:45:26. > :45:28.State reiterated that Saudi Arabia needs to be the party that

:45:29. > :45:32.investigates violations. We are very clear that the investigation needs

:45:33. > :45:36.to be led in the first instance by the Saudis. The government

:45:37. > :45:41.repeatedly, over the last 14 months, have been asked about Saudi Arabia's

:45:42. > :45:46.investigations. To my knowledge, Saudi Arabia have produced nine

:45:47. > :45:51.reports on violations. Even though there have been many other

:45:52. > :45:55.allegations made. Progress, I believe, on this is glacial. I find

:45:56. > :46:01.it remarkable that the government still holds the line that Saudi

:46:02. > :46:03.Arabia must take responsibility for investigating its own alleged

:46:04. > :46:08.violations. I give way to the Minister. Forgive me for

:46:09. > :46:13.interrupting again but I think it's helpful to provide further clarity

:46:14. > :46:18.as he developed his own argument. Firstly on the Human Rights Council

:46:19. > :46:23.itself and the formation of texts, we've seen this at the UN security

:46:24. > :46:27.Council more recently with resolution 2334. It is consensus

:46:28. > :46:33.that eventually leads to a text that is agreed by everybody so it can

:46:34. > :46:38.actually pass. Secondly, it just to test your patience, to say that

:46:39. > :46:41.absolutely these reports have been far too slow. The reason it is

:46:42. > :46:44.because we are dealing with a country that has never written a

:46:45. > :46:48.report like this in their lives and they are having to learn the hard

:46:49. > :46:54.way to show the transparency that the international community expects.

:46:55. > :46:58.I thank the Minister for those points of clarification which I

:46:59. > :47:02.appreciate. Of course I recognise the way in which United Nations

:47:03. > :47:05.bodies, whether the Human Rights Council or the Security Council,

:47:06. > :47:10.operate. The point I was seeking to make was that the original text from

:47:11. > :47:16.the Netherlands would have enabled the investigation to begin over a

:47:17. > :47:20.year ago, because of the diplomacy hasn't happened. My argument today

:47:21. > :47:26.is that that has been a missed opportunity. We could have started

:47:27. > :47:30.at a much earlier stage. The point I would like to make which was made by

:47:31. > :47:34.my honourable friend, is this process is slow because we are

:47:35. > :47:38.talking about a fledgling state. Saudi Arabia. This is still a very

:47:39. > :47:42.young state which is not used to this level of scrutiny and

:47:43. > :47:47.transparency. And so it will take a long time for these reports to come

:47:48. > :47:51.out. The honourable lady anticipates the final remarks I want to make in

:47:52. > :47:56.this speech because she used the word slow, the minister used the

:47:57. > :48:02.word slow, I used the word glacial. I think it is glacial, it is too

:48:03. > :48:05.slow. The substantial point I look forward to the Minister responding

:48:06. > :48:09.to when he speaks in the debate, at what point will the British

:48:10. > :48:14.government take the view that we need to move to an independent

:48:15. > :48:18.enquiry? I quoted from six months ago the government saying that the

:48:19. > :48:21.British government is not opposed to calls for an independent

:48:22. > :48:25.international enquiry, but first and foremost we want to see the Saudi

:48:26. > :48:28.Arabian government investigate. We've had that for 14 months. How

:48:29. > :48:34.much longer do we have to wait before we can move to an independent

:48:35. > :48:39.investigation? I wonder whether he and others are aware that the MoD

:48:40. > :48:45.had delivered two training sessions in Saudi Arabia on the process of

:48:46. > :48:48.investigating alleged violations of international humanitarian law. I'm

:48:49. > :48:52.sure he'd hoped that during those training sessions the MoD underlined

:48:53. > :48:56.the importance of dealing with these matters in an expedited manner.

:48:57. > :49:00.Absolutely and I'm sure the Minister will have more to say on that. Of

:49:01. > :49:05.course, if that is the purpose of those sessions, and it is reminding

:49:06. > :49:10.all parties they have obligations, it is vital that that happens. My

:49:11. > :49:12.belief, and the view that was taken not just by the International

:49:13. > :49:17.Development Committee but other select committees of this House, was

:49:18. > :49:22.that we will only get the full investigation that we need if it is

:49:23. > :49:26.completely independent. I think the time has come, has more than, and is

:49:27. > :49:32.long overdue, for us as a country to move to support a fully independent,

:49:33. > :49:37.international investigation. It is not acceptable for us to wait

:49:38. > :49:41.indefinitely for the Saudi Arabians to conduct their own investigations

:49:42. > :49:52.while people are still dying in this conflict. In talking about an

:49:53. > :49:56.enquiry, Morocco have 15 jets, Jordan have 15 jets. It's not Saudi

:49:57. > :50:06.Arabia, it's the Arab League as well. UAE have 30 jets and are they

:50:07. > :50:10.involved in this enquiry? As I made clear throughout every intervention

:50:11. > :50:13.on this, the enquiry will be into all allegations made against any

:50:14. > :50:20.party to the conflict. It is quite clear that the Saudis lead this

:50:21. > :50:24.coalition and for their alleged violations, they will be

:50:25. > :50:28.investigated. My honourable friend reminded us earlier the Iranians

:50:29. > :50:36.will also require investigation as well. Very briefly, who dropped the

:50:37. > :50:41.bomb is then? In the allegations, who do we know who dropped these air

:50:42. > :50:45.strikes? Predominately Saudi Arabia, there is little doubt about that.

:50:46. > :50:50.The Saudis have the predominant airpower. But it isn't only about

:50:51. > :50:54.the alleged violations that involve airpower, it is about all of the

:50:55. > :50:58.alleged violations including shelling by the Houthis, that must

:50:59. > :51:03.be investigated, actions by all sides. That is the purpose of saying

:51:04. > :51:06.today that we want to see an independent international

:51:07. > :51:11.investigation. I'll finish with this. I think this motion enables us

:51:12. > :51:15.as a house to come together. It enables us to put to one side the

:51:16. > :51:21.different points of view there are on the question of UK arms sales to

:51:22. > :51:26.Saudi Arabia and others, this motion is not about that. And I reiterate

:51:27. > :51:28.that while the International Development Committee and the

:51:29. > :51:33.business select committee took one view on arms sales and the Foreign

:51:34. > :51:37.Affairs Committee took a different view on arms sales, all three

:51:38. > :51:41.committees took the view we should have an independent, UN led

:51:42. > :51:48.investigation. I think today provides this House an opportunity

:51:49. > :51:51.to send a very clear message to the government but also to the wider,

:51:52. > :51:57.international community, that we want to see progress, in fact, we

:51:58. > :52:03.want to seek urgent and immediate progress to enable a fully

:52:04. > :52:07.independent investigation to take place. The question is on the order

:52:08. > :52:11.paper. Before I call the next person to speak it will be obvious to the

:52:12. > :52:16.House that there will be a great many people who wish to speak this

:52:17. > :52:20.afternoon, that there is limited time. I would like to try not to

:52:21. > :52:25.impose a time limit because the debate flows better if we don't have

:52:26. > :52:31.a time limit. I trust honourable members to behave in a courteous

:52:32. > :52:35.manner to their colleagues by speaking for around seven minutes.

:52:36. > :52:41.If lots of people speak for considerably more than that, we will

:52:42. > :52:48.have a time limit and that will be unfair to some people. I know that I

:52:49. > :52:56.can trust Alistair Burt to begin. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.

:52:57. > :53:01.Could I begin firstly by thanking the honourable gentleman the

:53:02. > :53:05.chairman of the committee and his colleagues for a very thorough

:53:06. > :53:11.report, that we are going to debate, for both committees and the way he's

:53:12. > :53:15.introduced what is a difficult and complex situation. Please to welcome

:53:16. > :53:18.my honourable friend Minister for the Middle East and International

:53:19. > :53:23.development in their places and we will listen very carefully to their

:53:24. > :53:28.responses. I start simply by saying I was Minister for the Middle East

:53:29. > :53:31.between 2010 and 2013, I was also responsible for arms control within

:53:32. > :53:37.the department. I have some background on these difficult

:53:38. > :53:40.issues. I don't want to spend a huge amount of time on the humanitarian

:53:41. > :53:45.statistics, simply because we are well aware of them. The honourable

:53:46. > :53:50.gentleman got them into the public domain quite effectively. I'd also

:53:51. > :53:52.like to thank very much the library of the House of Commons for

:53:53. > :54:00.producing another excellent background brief. I'd also like to

:54:01. > :54:04.thank Stephen O'Brien for his remarkable work through the UN

:54:05. > :54:13.relief agency. Just a quote from him, to put one quite on the order

:54:14. > :54:17.paper if I may. When he spoke about the recent attack on the funeral,

:54:18. > :54:23.the attack took place against the backdrop of a desperately worsening

:54:24. > :54:27.humanitarian situation, four out of every five of Yemen's 20 million

:54:28. > :54:34.people in need of immediate assistance. He said, I was in Sana'a

:54:35. > :54:38.and saw the heartbreaking situation for myself. Parents struggling to

:54:39. > :54:41.put food in the mouths of their children once a date, entire

:54:42. > :54:46.communities terrifyingly affected by conflict and without access to basic

:54:47. > :54:50.services or livelihoods. The issue is always not simply the relief of

:54:51. > :54:55.the humanitarian pressures. We can do more on that, that doesn't solve

:54:56. > :54:59.the problem. I want to talk about the elements of the motion of the

:55:00. > :55:03.conflict and the impact on civilians, and how this conflict can

:55:04. > :55:08.be resolved. To me, that is the most important thing. If the humanitarian

:55:09. > :55:15.crisis is to be ended it is through an the conflict. I am exceptionally

:55:16. > :55:21.fond of Yemen. My visit from 2010-2013 not only introduced me to

:55:22. > :55:26.some of the leaders there, but also in 2011 some of the young people,

:55:27. > :55:29.some of the women in the squares in Sana'a who helped to start to change

:55:30. > :55:33.the country then. Things haven't gone well and the people of Yemen

:55:34. > :55:37.have been betrayed once again by those who have responsibility for

:55:38. > :55:41.them in their own country. I hope the spark of reform that was there

:55:42. > :55:45.is not lost in the Yemen of the future. And I hope that the

:55:46. > :55:48.political settlement which will eventually come, will include those

:55:49. > :55:53.who hadn't been included in the past. Because they have a role to

:55:54. > :55:58.play. The reason we have the conflict is because of that betrayal

:55:59. > :56:02.in the past, the manipulation of all sites in the conflict, of various

:56:03. > :56:08.conflicts over a length of time. The ability to use aid money that went

:56:09. > :56:13.into the country for the wrong purposes. The failure of governance,

:56:14. > :56:17.the failure of a process to deal with internal grievances that

:56:18. > :56:21.included the Houthis, all of this has led to a situation where it

:56:22. > :56:27.suits some to continue the conflict internally but the cost is borne by

:56:28. > :56:31.the people of Yemen. It is essential that we recognise and understand

:56:32. > :56:35.that. It is understandable from the outside that we focus on the

:56:36. > :56:43.humanitarian crisis, and also to a degree, that we focus on the role of

:56:44. > :56:48.Saudi Arabia. It is essential to recognise that if we want to make a

:56:49. > :56:51.difference, we have to look at and understand why the conflict has

:56:52. > :56:55.persisted as long as it has. The reason it exists is because it

:56:56. > :56:57.exists on the back of that civil strife that has been going on a long

:56:58. > :57:04.time. It exists because Yemen is generally

:57:05. > :57:12.important, it matters, it shouldn't be forgotten, it shouldn't be

:57:13. > :57:15.forgotten country. In the busy humanitarian sense, this is a

:57:16. > :57:18.country of art, culture, music, this is a country of gentle people who

:57:19. > :57:24.given a great deal to the world, it's terrible that in our time we

:57:25. > :57:27.associated with the conflict that we do. Secondly its geographical

:57:28. > :57:34.position, it overlooks important ceilings and the Houthis have attack

:57:35. > :57:38.ships in the area. If there's an stability in the region it matters

:57:39. > :57:43.to us. This may be a far-away place of which many people may not know

:57:44. > :57:51.very but it matters. Accordingly its location, the ability to exploit

:57:52. > :57:56.that ungoverned space by Al-Qaeda which can direct attacks towards us

:57:57. > :57:59.and others in the West, it becomes increasingly a matter of concern and

:58:00. > :58:02.importance to us and the instability in the region generally, none of us

:58:03. > :58:06.in the House need any further information about that.

:58:07. > :58:12.Understanding that gives us an understanding of why the coalition

:58:13. > :58:14.came together, quite it needs a UN resolution and wind the United

:58:15. > :58:19.Kingdom has an involvement. The kingdom of Saudi Arabia is directly

:58:20. > :58:25.affected by instability in Yemen. Firstly, it can be and has been

:58:26. > :58:35.physically attacked between 2015 and 2016 some 37 ballistic missiles were

:58:36. > :58:38.fired by Houthi rebels to Saudi Arabia inflicting damage. Sometimes

:58:39. > :58:44.it's got to be purely an internal issue in Yemen and the Houthis not

:58:45. > :58:54.considered to be well armed but they are indeed. These micelles supplied

:58:55. > :58:57.by North Korea in the 90s have a range of 300 kilometres and are

:58:58. > :59:05.being shot down by US Patriot defence missile systems procured by

:59:06. > :59:06.Saudi Arabia from the United States. As the honourable gentleman

:59:07. > :59:13.indicates, there are serious armaments in the area and causing

:59:14. > :59:16.concern to all sides and the reason why the coalition is there and I

:59:17. > :59:20.would maintain that it is in the United Kingdom's interest to

:59:21. > :59:23.continue to support the coalition to support the partners in the

:59:24. > :59:32.coalition and to recognise what is being challenged there. It is not

:59:33. > :59:37.only the loss of a democratically supported government but it's the

:59:38. > :59:45.degree of influence has already been mentioned by Iraq. The Iranians have

:59:46. > :59:51.said publicly that they see the city is yet another B Holt and the risk

:59:52. > :59:55.and of that is a regime with a very clear intent to destabilise the

:59:56. > :00:00.region, to use terrorism to do so and to threaten stability in other

:00:01. > :00:04.areas. The consequence of that, not only an unstable region but for

:00:05. > :00:07.those outside is that the degree of risk to United Kingdom and others is

:00:08. > :00:13.increased. Accordingly the outcome of this conflict, if it is a

:00:14. > :00:15.conflict in which Iranians are successful and terrorism are

:00:16. > :00:22.successful is not in the United Kingdom's interest. The honourable

:00:23. > :00:28.member mentions less than 20 scud strikes which are to be deplored.

:00:29. > :00:32.The coalition air forces are engaging in 150 air strikes and more

:00:33. > :00:34.per day was that there is a disproportionality here which

:00:35. > :00:41.everyone in this house should recognise. It's very easy for us in

:00:42. > :00:43.these comfortable benches in Westminster to talk about a

:00:44. > :00:46.disproportionality and a conflict far away. The point I'm making to

:00:47. > :00:50.the honourable gentleman is that in the Andy King we've had a focus on

:00:51. > :00:53.the activities of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia without truly

:00:54. > :00:56.understanding why it's engages, why the coalition is there and by the

:00:57. > :01:00.United Kingdom has an interest in this and I simply wanted to put that

:01:01. > :01:05.on the record, it does not in any way minimise the reason and the need

:01:06. > :01:08.for humanitarian law to be respected, for the activities of

:01:09. > :01:13.those who engage in warfare to conduct according to the rules but

:01:14. > :01:17.it does come into the argument which is really made as to why on earth we

:01:18. > :01:27.are engaged anyway and why the outcome of it matters to do United

:01:28. > :01:29.Kingdom. Just finally. I have enormous respect for him and his

:01:30. > :01:33.experience and listening very carefully to what he has to say but

:01:34. > :01:37.for me the crucial issue here is about respect for international and

:01:38. > :01:42.humanitarian law, what is his answer to the point that I raised and what

:01:43. > :01:45.point would be like to look at these matters independently rather than

:01:46. > :01:50.leaving it to the Saudis to lead the investigation? I think that point

:01:51. > :01:54.comes when the United Kingdom government is not satisfied that the

:01:55. > :01:58.Kingdom of Saudi Arabia can fulfil its obligations. At that stage I

:01:59. > :02:00.don't believe that position has been reached. I'm sure the minister will

:02:01. > :02:05.talk about the nature of our engagement with the Saudi Arabia and

:02:06. > :02:09.how it affects as he says a state and indeed a group of states through

:02:10. > :02:13.the GCC that are engaged in a conflict in a manner they haven't

:02:14. > :02:16.been before. There is an important point, if we expect people another

:02:17. > :02:20.part of the world to be responsible for their own defence and security

:02:21. > :02:24.then they are going to have to get on with it and they're learning some

:02:25. > :02:28.of the processes, that is happening at present and secondly the nature

:02:29. > :02:32.of our engagement, I refer all colleagues to the report by Frank

:02:33. > :02:35.Gardner of the BBC just before Christmas he reported and published

:02:36. > :02:39.something on the BBC website, it's very good, most of us recognise that

:02:40. > :02:43.Frank Gardner is a pretty independent voice parties looked at

:02:44. > :02:46.the nature of engagement, the openness of the Saudi authorities in

:02:47. > :02:50.dealing with him, explaining what they do, the openness of the Foreign

:02:51. > :02:54.Minister Saudi Arabia coming to this house of which any member of this

:02:55. > :02:58.chamber had access to to talk about these issues to question in a manner

:02:59. > :03:05.not before is an important step forward. So everything we know is by

:03:06. > :03:09.no means perfect, by no means clear but the steps that have been taken

:03:10. > :03:13.by the British Government to encourage full disclosure have been

:03:14. > :03:18.important. I must close because Madam Deputy Speaker was generous

:03:19. > :03:25.and I want to finish on this. We are beginning to learn that the

:03:26. > :03:28.importance of ending a conflict is paramount to the people who are

:03:29. > :03:33.affected by it but there are good outcomes and their are less than

:03:34. > :03:36.good outcomes and unless we are involved is something we can see

:03:37. > :03:39.outcomes to conflict that are not in our long-term interest and not in

:03:40. > :03:44.the interest of stability in the area, that is why we should continue

:03:45. > :03:47.to support our allies who are working through the coalition,

:03:48. > :03:52.continue to be engaged fully with them and to recognise that Aaron 's

:03:53. > :03:57.rest is lie in a situation where does not create a terrorist cell in

:03:58. > :04:02.Yemen, does not see Hezbollah type operation active in Yemen and that

:04:03. > :04:08.those states that Opel is that a right to consider that their

:04:09. > :04:12.long-term stability and ours is best satisfied by a solution which ends

:04:13. > :04:17.the conflict and puts in place a democratic government supported by

:04:18. > :04:18.you many is and political process, not the outside interference of

:04:19. > :04:29.Iran. If anyone should be allowed to

:04:30. > :04:31.exceed their six minutes as the honourable member for North East

:04:32. > :04:35.Bedfordshire. He's worth all the minutes that he speaks about this

:04:36. > :04:39.very important subject because we recognise those of us who'd been in

:04:40. > :04:44.the all-party Yemen group and I've chaired it or almost as long as

:04:45. > :04:50.President Szalai was president of Yemen, 26 years. He has always been

:04:51. > :04:53.when he was in government and indeed now he's out of government very

:04:54. > :04:58.aware of the importance of this beautiful country and his personal

:04:59. > :05:05.concern that it is being hacked and it is suffering every single day. He

:05:06. > :05:09.describes Yemen as the forgotten war. I'm extremely proud of being a

:05:10. > :05:14.member of this house because what has been very clear over the last

:05:15. > :05:20.few months is that Yemen is not the forgotten war in this house. Foreign

:05:21. > :05:26.Office questions on Tuesday of this week, 48 hours ago, 26 minutes in

:05:27. > :05:35.total of the 45 minutes available work dedicated to some aspect of the

:05:36. > :05:47.situation in Yemen. In addition to members of the all-party group, the

:05:48. > :05:51.member for Portsmouth South, a fellow we hosted Yemen day for the

:05:52. > :05:54.first time in a number of years when we had excellent speeches from the

:05:55. > :06:01.two ministers representing the government today. From

:06:02. > :06:07.one importantly we could interact with members of the year

:06:08. > :06:13.Yemeni community. It's the people of Yemen who are suffering. It's the

:06:14. > :06:22.families of the people of Yemen who live in different parts of this

:06:23. > :06:27.country, some in Liverpool, I'm not sure if any in Warwick in Leamington

:06:28. > :06:29.but I'm so pleased that the honourable member has co-sponsored

:06:30. > :06:33.this debate but they're all over the country and they feel powerless to

:06:34. > :06:37.do what they need to do in order to bring this matter to the attention

:06:38. > :06:41.of this house and the international community. So I'm delighted that yet

:06:42. > :06:47.again we're having a debate on Yemen and that this on Thursday afternoon,

:06:48. > :06:50.when it is not usually this well attended, so many members are coming

:06:51. > :06:52.and we probably could have had a much longer debate mad and they

:06:53. > :06:55.probably could have had a much longer debate Madam Vicky the

:06:56. > :07:02.Speaker. I want to confine my remarks -- Madam Deputy Speaker. I

:07:03. > :07:04.want to convey the urgency of a ceasefire and the importance of a

:07:05. > :07:09.ceasefire and well, the Shadow Foreign Secretary said at Foreign

:07:10. > :07:15.Office questions on Tuesday and the focus of the opposition fund which

:07:16. > :07:22.is also the focus of the government. I hate it when we fight over Yemen,

:07:23. > :07:26.whether it is on party lines on whether it is about the role of

:07:27. > :07:30.Saudi Arabia or what is happening as far as the investigations are

:07:31. > :07:34.concerned and we clearly need investigations as the motion

:07:35. > :07:38.suggests. I want is desperately to unite behind one concept, the

:07:39. > :07:47.importance of the ceasefire. A few weeks ago I was at the UN security

:07:48. > :07:50.council because of the ability of Matthew Rycroft to get

:07:51. > :07:56.parliamentarians in, I watched my fights ever after 30 years in this

:07:57. > :07:59.house, my first-ever live session of the security Council and every

:08:00. > :08:03.single member of the security council wanted to do something in

:08:04. > :08:06.support of a ceasefire. It was unanimous. All the permanent

:08:07. > :08:12.members, everybody, they had little digs at each other and asked for a

:08:13. > :08:16.role but the most important thing is that all the countries spoke with

:08:17. > :08:20.one voice. And that's why it's so important that the draft resolution

:08:21. > :08:25.that is really our resolution because we are at the pen holders

:08:26. > :08:32.should be tabled before the United Nations as a matter of urgency. And

:08:33. > :08:35.I know what the Minister said to the shadow minister that really terrible

:08:36. > :08:38.resolutions when we know they will be implemented but I don't have the

:08:39. > :08:44.figures as to how many resolutions of the UN have actually been

:08:45. > :08:49.implemented. They have got about 2500. But the fact is we need that

:08:50. > :08:54.resolution because the best way to guarantee that people are focusing

:08:55. > :08:59.on the peace process and the ceasefire is if the United Nations

:09:00. > :09:05.speaks with one voice. That is why I seek a timetable from the government

:09:06. > :09:08.today a timetable to ensure that we get that resolution for the Security

:09:09. > :09:11.Council. I was delighted with the ceasefire that was brokered over

:09:12. > :09:18.Syria that the Russians and the Turks were able to make sure we had

:09:19. > :09:22.peace in Syria. That was wobbly but this was followed by the UN

:09:23. > :09:28.endorsing the ceasefire. If you can have it in Syria, why can't we have

:09:29. > :09:32.it in Yemen? And if we take the Foreign Secretary at his word and

:09:33. > :09:34.I'm very pleased with the role he's played and the honesty with which

:09:35. > :09:40.the Foreign Secretary has spoken about Yemen, then the British

:09:41. > :09:45.Foreign Secretary working with the new Secretary of State and with the

:09:46. > :09:50.Russians who are now the friends of the Americans or will be after the

:09:51. > :09:54.20th of January, the Chinese will go along with it, I met the Chinese

:09:55. > :09:58.ambassador recently and asked if China would support the ceasefire

:09:59. > :10:03.and he said they would and the French are on board. Five permanent

:10:04. > :10:07.members are going to be on board and the other countries are so

:10:08. > :10:10.supportive, I think we can get this through. So pleased when he replies

:10:11. > :10:16.could he tell us when that timetable is going to be achieved. My final

:10:17. > :10:19.point is about the aid agencies, the chairman of the International

:10:20. > :10:23.Development Select Committee has read out the scorecard a shame, the

:10:24. > :10:29.3.3 million women and children who are malnourished, the 370,000

:10:30. > :10:32.children who are in immediate risk of starvation, the 7 million who do

:10:33. > :10:36.not know where their next meal is coming from, the 10 million who have

:10:37. > :10:41.no access to safe drinking water, the four fifths of the entire

:10:42. > :10:45.population, 21 million, equivalent to the populations of London,

:10:46. > :10:48.Birmingham, Liverpool and Glasgow combined who are in desperate need

:10:49. > :10:56.of urgent assistance and these incredible organisations from

:10:57. > :11:01.medicines through to Islamic relief, the world foundation of KF IMC.

:11:02. > :11:06.Oxfam, the disasters emergency fund, all these people trying as the

:11:07. > :11:13.honourable member, another person who knows about Yemen so well when

:11:14. > :11:16.he served there, where is the aid going, the aid cannot get in

:11:17. > :11:23.effectively unless the planes land at Sana'a and unless the ports can

:11:24. > :11:28.accept the aid. We have to have a ceasefire. If there is a goal I have

:11:29. > :11:33.this year and my new Year 's resolution, if we can have a

:11:34. > :11:39.collective New Year 's resolution for the House is that by the 31st of

:11:40. > :11:43.December we will have peace in Yemen a proper political solution and

:11:44. > :11:46.until we get that members of this house will continue to raise this

:11:47. > :11:52.subject so the forgotten war is never forgotten and we bring peace

:11:53. > :12:02.to this beautiful Oedipal country. -- beautiful. Stewart.

:12:03. > :12:15.The south-east tip of the Arabian Peninsular has been a matter of

:12:16. > :12:20.importance to us for at least 200 years. It was crucial to the

:12:21. > :12:27.functioning of the British Empire, and particularly after 1869 with the

:12:28. > :12:36.Suez Canal opening, when the route to India was much shorter. When oil

:12:37. > :12:42.came to replace coal, Aden became even more important. Time passed and

:12:43. > :12:49.the Aden Protectorate became part of our Empire. And indeed the British

:12:50. > :12:55.government had to ruin it through 23 sheikdoms, tribal areas. These

:12:56. > :12:59.tribal areas, 23 of them, were not great friends with one another, and

:13:00. > :13:07.that remains to this day. We can't just think of them, as the Houthis,

:13:08. > :13:11.they are all different tribes. That's the problem, that's where I

:13:12. > :13:20.came in. In the 50s when the honourable gentleman and his sister

:13:21. > :13:24.were born, when I was there in Aden... LAUGHTER I understand you

:13:25. > :13:29.were born there and your sister might not have been? I'm sorry, the

:13:30. > :13:33.honourable gentleman's system might not have been. I was definitely not

:13:34. > :13:42.born there and I was a little boy there. My father was with the Aden

:13:43. > :13:45.Protectorate and... I give way. The worst thing about giving an

:13:46. > :13:52.intervention from the sedentary position is the honorary gentleman

:13:53. > :13:57.didn't hear what I said. We were both born there. It's just he said

:13:58. > :14:01.we were born when he arrived in Aden I was just making the point the two

:14:02. > :14:11.events weren't connected! LAUGHTER Thank God for that! My interest in

:14:12. > :14:18.Aden comes from my time when I was a little boy. I loved the place. It

:14:19. > :14:26.was a great place to grow up between 1954-57. What a fabulous place to

:14:27. > :14:32.be, if you were on the right side. Since 1990 Yemen has gone from bad

:14:33. > :14:35.to worse and has become a sort of cockpit which some say is a fighting

:14:36. > :14:48.area between the two branches of Islam. That may be the case but

:14:49. > :14:54.don't think they are oh no -- they are the same on both sides, they are

:14:55. > :15:03.not. It does stretch credulity the uranium regime has defined the

:15:04. > :15:06.Houthis as Shia -- rode the Irani and regime. It is more mischief

:15:07. > :15:16.making Barnby Orthodox theological position. And into that cockpit,

:15:17. > :15:28.more mischief making comes with the arrival of AQAP and Daesh. These are

:15:29. > :15:37.not native to Yemen. These are not people who really should be a

:15:38. > :15:45.Yemeni. These are people who came in from outside. And actually, it is a

:15:46. > :15:50.great tragedy that the Security Council resolution 2316, which was

:15:51. > :15:55.passed unanimously, has not had much effect. In a way it is a disgrace on

:15:56. > :16:03.the world. It had so little effect. I give way again to a gentleman who

:16:04. > :16:07.talk such sense on this subject. You referred to Isis, of course prices

:16:08. > :16:11.are developing in a vacuum. What the UN panel identified was where this

:16:12. > :16:17.vacuum exists, where the Houthis threaten from one side and there is

:16:18. > :16:20.no stabilisation force on the ground, that people, towns,

:16:21. > :16:29.communities, are turning to the black flag as a way of community

:16:30. > :16:34.against what is a sub sect of Shia, the Houthis, coming at them. They

:16:35. > :16:39.are using it as a defence mechanism. That is the problem, an absence of

:16:40. > :16:44.any government and people wanting to protect themselves. As ever it's the

:16:45. > :16:50.little people who are suffering in this war. 7000 people have died,

:16:51. > :16:56.apparently. To me, that rings bells with a number of people killed at

:16:57. > :17:01.Srebrenica which I was kind of involved with all those years ago.

:17:02. > :17:05.When Srebrenica occurred, the world suddenly got its backside in gear

:17:06. > :17:12.and sorted it out. I go back to my original point, which is let's hope

:17:13. > :17:15.2017 sort this out. Because clearly, Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a

:17:16. > :17:22.political solution that must be had somewhere rather. Firstly, people

:17:23. > :17:26.have got to meet both sides have got to meet. They've tried and it's very

:17:27. > :17:36.difficult, but that's the only way forward. This diplomat from

:17:37. > :17:41.Mauritius seems to be respected on all sides. That is the first thing

:17:42. > :17:50.you require, a chairman or chairwoman who is respected.

:17:51. > :17:56.Negotiations must actually be protected. My second point is that

:17:57. > :18:02.those people negotiating should be able to do so in safety. They've had

:18:03. > :18:06.some problems in the Gulf, so perhaps moved to Geneva, the

:18:07. > :18:13.traditional place for negotiations if necessary. The third point must

:18:14. > :18:18.be a ceasefire that will hold. The recognition of ceasefires, is that

:18:19. > :18:22.although they are written on paper, they inevitably won't hold. They

:18:23. > :18:30.will never be perfect and therefore we almost should expect the -- that

:18:31. > :18:33.if there is a ceasefire there there will be breaches and we've got to

:18:34. > :18:37.live with that. I will give way. As the honourable gentleman been able

:18:38. > :18:41.to seek the draft text of the resolution the British have drafted

:18:42. > :18:45.and not yet put before the Security Council? Clause one calls for a

:18:46. > :18:49.ceasefire and references the UN route map. Has the honourable

:18:50. > :18:52.gentleman seen up and agree that maybe the basis for negotiations? I

:18:53. > :18:58.haven't read it but it sounds very sensible and logical. Everything has

:18:59. > :19:05.got to be sensible and logical in sorting out problems. Of course I've

:19:06. > :19:09.already alluded to the fact, AQAP and Daesh are not local. There is a

:19:10. > :19:12.point of joint between the protagonists, they all hate these

:19:13. > :19:17.people who have come in from outside. They are part of the enemy

:19:18. > :19:25.and they should not be involved. My fifth points is that we should

:19:26. > :19:28.withdraw, there should be a withdrawal of Armed Forces from

:19:29. > :19:32.Sana'a and other towns. This will be very difficult but it probably

:19:33. > :19:38.involves the fact we require UN peacekeepers of some sort. I think

:19:39. > :19:42.of the model of the British going into Rhodesia and separating people.

:19:43. > :19:49.That's good. We can't do it because whoever the peacekeepers are,

:19:50. > :19:54.probably should be from an Islamic State. But good, military officers,

:19:55. > :20:02.and good, military troops, should go in, if there is to be some kind of

:20:03. > :20:07.resolution. The UN will have two grip this one. Obviously a political

:20:08. > :20:13.solution is the objective. I very much hope that this year we will get

:20:14. > :20:19.it. For goodness sake, if Yemen is a forgotten war, colleagues, if Yemen

:20:20. > :20:23.is a forgotten war, let's not make it forgotten and let's actually make

:20:24. > :20:31.it a forgotten war by next year because it's over. Thank you. Mike

:20:32. > :20:34.Gibbs. Madam Deputy Speaker I, unlike several who have spoken in

:20:35. > :20:46.the debate already, have never been to Yemen. But I was last September

:20:47. > :20:53.in demand. What is interesting about Oman which has a border with Yemen,

:20:54. > :20:58.is that Oman has managed in a very difficult situation to stay out of

:20:59. > :21:06.this conflict. The Iranians are trying to smuggle weaponry into

:21:07. > :21:15.Yemen through Oman. Yemenis fleeing from the conflict are being treated

:21:16. > :21:22.in Omani hospitals. And there is a potential for the issue to have a

:21:23. > :21:32.wider role. Interestingly, and this is probably not widely known, the

:21:33. > :21:41.Omanis are not or Sunni, they are a particularly small group of people,

:21:42. > :21:47.and they have a particular distinctive position within the

:21:48. > :21:53.history of Islam. But so did the group we now call the Houthis.

:21:54. > :21:58.Although it is quite clear that this is a regional conflict with Saudi

:21:59. > :22:04.Arabia and the GCC countries, and as my friend said, countries from North

:22:05. > :22:09.Africa also involved as part of the UN mandated comic UN supported

:22:10. > :22:22.coalition, on the other side you have Irani and Hezbollah, and

:22:23. > :22:26.Hezbollah are commanders -- have commanders who died in Yemen. In a

:22:27. > :22:40.sense, what we have seen in Syria with an alliance of a group who

:22:41. > :22:46.worry particular branch, close to Houthis but complicated -- Shiism

:22:47. > :22:56.but complicated, in alliance with Iran and Russia. In the Yemen we

:22:57. > :22:59.have something similar. We have a coalition of Sunni governments,

:23:00. > :23:04.supporting a government which is weak, in what has become a failed

:23:05. > :23:11.state. On the other side you've got a coalition with the former

:23:12. > :23:18.President, meddling and refusing to accept the transition to the new

:23:19. > :23:23.government. Former President. You are in a position where the idea of

:23:24. > :23:31.a political solution is probably even more difficult than Syria.

:23:32. > :23:36.Because the United States is not in any real position to influence the

:23:37. > :23:46.outcome here, whereas Russia has an influence in Syria. This potentially

:23:47. > :23:56.has serious ramifications. The Houthis fired missiles at ships of

:23:57. > :24:03.the United Arab Emirates. They also fired missiles at the United States

:24:04. > :24:09.naval vessels. There is a potential of the widening of this conflict,

:24:10. > :24:14.and as a regional security issue, it is quite right that the United

:24:15. > :24:26.Nations Security Council has too engage with it. The situation,

:24:27. > :24:32.however, is not one where we can simply say that Saudi Arabia and

:24:33. > :24:42.Irani can solve this. Because the actors internally are not simply

:24:43. > :24:46.proxies for Irani Saudi Arabia. Therefore, to crudely say we should

:24:47. > :24:52.condemn the British government's support to the Saudis, or, on the

:24:53. > :24:58.other side, we should condemn the Iranians's support for the Houthis,

:24:59. > :25:06.is not going to take us anywhere. And I suspect, sadly, even if we

:25:07. > :25:12.were to have a regional deal whereby Irani and Saudi Arabia have a big

:25:13. > :25:16.bargain, and they agree a common position on the Israel Palestine

:25:17. > :25:21.conflict, you would still find this conflict in Yemen might still be

:25:22. > :25:26.continuing because of these factors. It needs urgency, international

:25:27. > :25:31.involvement, and remember, these people are amongst the very poorest

:25:32. > :25:39.people in the wilds. They are suffering not just warfare, but they

:25:40. > :25:42.are also suffering terrible poverty, partly because of mismanagement and

:25:43. > :25:50.misgovernment over many years. Chris White. Thank you. I am pleased to

:25:51. > :25:53.have secured this debate alongside the honourable member for Liverpool

:25:54. > :25:59.West Derby and bank the Backbench Business Committee for granting us

:26:00. > :26:05.this opportunity. The conflict in Yemen between the Saudi led

:26:06. > :26:09.coalition and the Houthi rebels has created grave instability and

:26:10. > :26:13.danger. Amnesty International has stated the conflict has seen

:26:14. > :26:19.violations of international humanitarian law committed by both

:26:20. > :26:23.sides with impunity. UN reports suggest around 60% of air strikes

:26:24. > :26:31.during the war have been conducted by Saudi led forces. The committees

:26:32. > :26:36.on arms airport controls had an enquiry last year on the sale of UK

:26:37. > :26:41.arms to Saudi Arabia. It is clear to me that there is an urgent need for

:26:42. > :26:47.the government to suspend such licences, pending the results of an

:26:48. > :26:51.independent UN led investigation into potential breaches of

:26:52. > :26:57.international humanitarian law. This was the position taken by the joint

:26:58. > :26:59.report of the Business, Innovation and Skills and international

:27:00. > :27:07.development select committees, in conclusion of that enquiry.

:27:08. > :27:11.Meanwhile, since the report, the government has repeated its view

:27:12. > :27:17.that the Saudis should be allowed to conduct their own investigations.

:27:18. > :27:25.is a Saudi led joint incidents assessment team has only initiated

:27:26. > :27:30.something around 15 investigations, almost two years into the conflict.

:27:31. > :27:35.The number of credible allegations are well over 100. Furthermore,

:27:36. > :27:43.feedback that the team is limited to press releases and press conferences

:27:44. > :27:47.rather than comprehensive reports. During the Defence Secretary in a

:27:48. > :27:50.statement on the 19th of December I ask my right honourable friend the

:27:51. > :28:00.circumstances under which the government would pause arms sales to

:28:01. > :28:04.Saudi Arabia. If we have evidence of international humanitarian law being

:28:05. > :28:12.breached, I point to the devastating twin attack on the funeral hall in

:28:13. > :28:18.Sana'a killing 140 and injuring as many as 500. According to UN the

:28:19. > :28:23.attacks were minutes apart targeting a location where it was known that

:28:24. > :28:27.senior Houthi officials were assembling between families and

:28:28. > :28:36.children. The US has launched a review into that attack and have a

:28:37. > :28:41.position as guided munitions worth around $350 --'s $50 million citing

:28:42. > :28:49.systemic and endemic problems with Saudi targeting in Yemen. -- $350

:28:50. > :28:56.million. For an attack to not be able to distinguish those fighting

:28:57. > :29:04.in a conflict and civilians points to international humanitarian law

:29:05. > :29:10.being broken. We should be an example with our licensing regime

:29:11. > :29:15.the response of these challenges. Criteria of our arms export

:29:16. > :29:18.licensing regime are busy authorisation to arm themselves if

:29:19. > :29:25.there is a clear risk of a violation of international humanitarian law. I

:29:26. > :29:29.asked the minister and his response today what point is this threshold

:29:30. > :29:34.met. The evidence that the committee of arms export controls heard was

:29:35. > :29:39.the compelling in suggesting that this is very much a clear risk. I

:29:40. > :29:45.have heard arguments that claim if we don't supply arms a nation with a

:29:46. > :29:53.weaker licensing regime will do so instead. I would pre-empt any such

:29:54. > :29:59.point today and suggest this is no way to approach any situation, not

:30:00. > :30:04.least the sale of weapons. We must be accountable for our own actions,

:30:05. > :30:12.particularly if we are to be an example in cementing. Cementing the

:30:13. > :30:17.rule of law into our practices was that such a position does not fulfil

:30:18. > :30:22.our obligations of the criteria and the law and unless we wish to become

:30:23. > :30:27.one of these other weaker countries we should maintain that position. A

:30:28. > :30:33.legal opinion in December 2015 by matrix Chambers argues that the sale

:30:34. > :30:41.of UK arms constitutes a violation of our obligations under national,

:30:42. > :30:44.international and EU law. I pre-empt the widely recognised point that our

:30:45. > :30:48.strategic relationship with Saudi Arabia is one that must be

:30:49. > :30:54.maintained. I absolutely agree with this position but would say that

:30:55. > :30:59.this does not extend to as acting as its proxy defence. We pride

:31:00. > :31:04.ourselves in a relationship with Saudi Arabia but that must not be a

:31:05. > :31:18.mechanism to deflect criticism. Our close ties should not be used to

:31:19. > :31:24.support... Thank you very much for giving way. The primary purpose of

:31:25. > :31:30.this debate on my own personal feelings is the people of Yemen and

:31:31. > :31:37.the objective is clear. It is a ceasefire. That's the primary

:31:38. > :31:42.objective in order to relieve the situation in Yemen. Stopping arms

:31:43. > :31:52.sales to Saudi Arabia as a bogus argument and will put to him this,

:31:53. > :31:56.you've seen the arms sales of Russians to President Assad and you

:31:57. > :32:01.seen the devastation in Aleppo. I find it incredible that you can make

:32:02. > :32:08.the argument about ethical arms sales and our ethical arms sales and

:32:09. > :32:12.then allow Saudi Arabia using our petrol pounds to go and buy arms for

:32:13. > :32:15.whoever they want and you see the devastation if they were to buy

:32:16. > :32:21.Russian arms in Aleppo, it's a ridiculous argument. Thank you for

:32:22. > :32:28.the final point. I would suggest were the honourable member talks

:32:29. > :32:32.about ethics, he is missing my point entirely. This is not necessarily

:32:33. > :32:39.about ethics, this is about the rule of law and the criteria for our arms

:32:40. > :32:46.exports licensing carrot here are -- criteria. Would you still might like

:32:47. > :32:55.to make a point? I would echo the comments of my Lancashire neighbour.

:32:56. > :32:57.Also, the question of the relationship with Saudi Arabia, with

:32:58. > :33:01.the honourable gentleman not recognise that through the good

:33:02. > :33:06.offices of government ministers like the Minister in his place, the

:33:07. > :33:11.behaviour of Saudi Arabia has changed and accepting they are no

:33:12. > :33:16.longer going to use cluster bombs. I would answer very briefly to say

:33:17. > :33:24.that the government had already been in discussions with Saudi Arabia

:33:25. > :33:31.regarding cluster munitions in 2010 and I don't think the Saudi Arabian

:33:32. > :33:35.government took a large amount of notice of our government persuasion

:33:36. > :33:43.until after the events when these munitions were identified. The chair

:33:44. > :33:46.of the committee is making a strong speech and I wonder if he agrees

:33:47. > :33:49.with me that there's a much wider principle, this house on both sides

:33:50. > :33:56.and governments have led the world in arguing for the arms trade is

:33:57. > :34:00.treated and the other arms export control criteria so we have a rules

:34:01. > :34:03.-based system for our defence industry to operate within, one that

:34:04. > :34:11.adheres to humanitarian principles. Does he not agree that principle is

:34:12. > :34:18.at stake if we don't adhere to it? I'm sorry, I'm probably getting well

:34:19. > :34:23.past the Deputy Speaker's patients. The Defence Secretary's statement on

:34:24. > :34:25.the 19th, to go back to the specific question learned that the

:34:26. > :34:30.government's findings that British made cluster munitions had been used

:34:31. > :34:33.by the Saudi led coalition in May 20 16. This has a number of

:34:34. > :34:37.implications as is cause for concern but challenged the Minister on the

:34:38. > :34:42.responsiveness of our exports resume. It's on unacceptable that an

:34:43. > :34:46.international ally uses a weapon manufactured in Britain with

:34:47. > :34:53.complete disregard for the 2008 Convention on cluster munitions of

:34:54. > :34:58.which the UK is a signatory. I will continue, my apologies. If I get a

:34:59. > :35:02.strange look I will give way shortly. We are duty bound by the

:35:03. > :35:07.2008 Convention to prevent use of cluster munitions and die as what

:35:08. > :35:11.steps were taken to him as the Saudis of our opposition of the use

:35:12. > :35:15.and convince them to decommission these weapons. I recognised the

:35:16. > :35:19.government has not sold cluster munitions to Saudi Arabia since 1989

:35:20. > :35:27.but it is important to consider the durability of arm munitions. I will

:35:28. > :35:32.give way. We do know that the UK Government stopped supplying cluster

:35:33. > :35:35.munitions to Saudi Arabia in 1989. However we also know that the UK

:35:36. > :35:40.Government continued to maintain those horrific weapons until 2010,

:35:41. > :35:45.now that the minister will tell us why that contract was in place for

:35:46. > :35:49.21 years but the crucial point I think is and does the member agreed

:35:50. > :35:55.me that the accountability should extend beyond simply sales but

:35:56. > :36:01.maintenance contract also. I would agree with the honourable member

:36:02. > :36:07.that it will be instinctive year the Minister's response for that. The

:36:08. > :36:10.humanitarian crisis requires an urgent and comprehensive response

:36:11. > :36:14.from the international community. Everyone in this chamber agrees with

:36:15. > :36:18.that. As each month goes by and casualties grow, the case for an

:36:19. > :36:22.independent UN led investigation into potential breaches becomes all

:36:23. > :36:27.the more compelling from a UK perspective and to protect our

:36:28. > :36:32.reputation, an example to the world in terms of arms export licences, it

:36:33. > :36:39.is right we suspend our sale of arms to Saudi Arabia until the UN led

:36:40. > :36:42.investigation is completed. Just before I call the next figure I

:36:43. > :36:45.should remind the House a few honourable gentleman this afternoon

:36:46. > :36:53.have used the word you when really they meant one or they should have

:36:54. > :36:59.said the honourable gentleman or the honourable lady. Now I haven't

:37:00. > :37:07.interrupted people because I don't wish to spoil the flow of their

:37:08. > :37:11.arguments but it must be noted that that is inappropriate use of

:37:12. > :37:14.language and the debate does work much better if we keep it in the

:37:15. > :37:26.third person. Yemen is one of the oldest

:37:27. > :37:33.civilisations within the Gulf. A unified Yemeni state was not formed

:37:34. > :37:41.until 1990. I urge members to look at the timeline for this. It has a

:37:42. > :37:43.history of war, assassinations, political, civil and internal

:37:44. > :37:48.conflict and then thrown in earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and

:37:49. > :37:57.landslides. It has a history and the toll of misery in many respects.

:37:58. > :38:00.Then in 1992 along came Al-Qaeda. We have a little of Al-Qaeda initially

:38:01. > :38:08.but then following the 2000 attack on the USS call violence grew from

:38:09. > :38:11.Al-Qaeda. In 2009 Saudi and Yemeni branches merged to form Al-Qaeda in

:38:12. > :38:20.the Arab and insular and the death toll has risen yearly. --

:38:21. > :38:26.peninsular. The northern -based Houthis, the insurgency against the

:38:27. > :38:38.government started to grow in 2004. The Houthis adhere to a branch of

:38:39. > :38:42.Shia Islam. The president of Yemen following unification with the South

:38:43. > :38:51.in 1990. He was forced to leave office in 2012, since when he's

:38:52. > :38:59.fought alongside the Houthis two control Yemen. During his time in

:39:00. > :39:06.power he amassed a fortune between 30 and 62 billion. The report claims

:39:07. > :39:09.the assets including gold, cash, property and other commodities are

:39:10. > :39:20.held in various names in at least 20 countries. In 2012 the President was

:39:21. > :39:24.inaugurated as Houthis the took over large parts of the country. The

:39:25. > :39:30.president is supported by the Gulf cooperation Council and the military

:39:31. > :39:34.alliance said is often led by Saudi Arabia. In April 2015 the UN

:39:35. > :39:39.security Council impose an arms embargo on Yemen's rebels and allies

:39:40. > :39:50.including the former president and his son. That arms embargo has been

:39:51. > :39:58.broken many times by the Iranians. The 2016 global terrorism index

:39:59. > :40:02.lists Yemen as fitting the sixth highest level of terrorism in the

:40:03. > :40:13.world. Of the 20 most fatal terrorist attacks in 2015, two were

:40:14. > :40:22.in Yemen carried out by Houthi extremists. In 2015 1591 Yemen were

:40:23. > :40:27.killed in terrorist attacks and the groups carried out 90% of the

:40:28. > :40:37.attacks. The Houthi, Al-Qaeda and now a new group, the Isa affiliates.

:40:38. > :40:46.Houthi Still claimed responsibility for 63% of the deaths and 62% of the

:40:47. > :40:51.attacks. The majority of which targets private citizens and

:40:52. > :40:55.property. There is no doubt that violence as Gulf Yemen. The country

:40:56. > :41:02.has a history of conflict between its religious, ethnic groups. Its

:41:03. > :41:09.leadership has a history of failing the ordinary people of Yemen. It is

:41:10. > :41:17.naive to suggest that Yemen is not also a proxy battle for dominance

:41:18. > :41:23.between Sunni and Shia powers of drawing in wealthier and more

:41:24. > :41:27.powerful regional countries. The Houthi have also launched attacks on

:41:28. > :41:32.Saudi Arabia, their neighbour. I'm not going to repeat all of the

:41:33. > :41:38.information that we've had about the famine and disease and the death

:41:39. > :41:43.toll is that we're seeing as a result of the conflict. This

:41:44. > :41:48.disastrous situation has reached a stalemate.

:41:49. > :41:55.Ceasefires and peace deals have been made and broken. There doesn't seem

:41:56. > :42:00.to be any side that sees a real interest in reaching and maintaining

:42:01. > :42:05.a settlement. In a region where the horrific barrel bombing of civilians

:42:06. > :42:10.in Aleppo, a rising tide of refugees, murder, rape, torture is

:42:11. > :42:16.of followers different religious groups are frequent, the warring

:42:17. > :42:22.parties in the conflict have me Houthi no real impetus in getting

:42:23. > :42:27.behind peace initiatives. The UN special envoy has worked hard, and I

:42:28. > :42:29.appreciate that. There's little in the motion before us today that I

:42:30. > :42:41.don't think anyone in house would not support. I'm not going to get

:42:42. > :42:46.into a tit-for-tat argument about whether or not the Saudis are the

:42:47. > :42:51.main problem here, is the coalition the problem here. The problem is, we

:42:52. > :42:58.don't have a clear road map to resolve this conflict. I looked at

:42:59. > :43:04.what I thought was a very, very good report from Chatham House. It's one

:43:05. > :43:10.of the UK's best independent think tank. It is a group that can be

:43:11. > :43:16.trusted to take an impartial view. They point out, as others have, that

:43:17. > :43:18.the conflict is multipolar, fuelled by regional and international

:43:19. > :43:24.support from various parties involved in the fighting. The broad

:43:25. > :43:29.consensus among international policymakers is the it can be

:43:30. > :43:38.brought to a sustainable end is through political mediation. But we

:43:39. > :43:45.need to have tensions that are rife, not only between the two warring

:43:46. > :43:50.factions, between the two ex-presidents, we need to tackle

:43:51. > :43:56.those tensions, because the groups are also deeply divided. So, if you

:43:57. > :44:05.come down on the side of the Houthi, or you come down on the other side,

:44:06. > :44:13.ultimately an ongoing civil war will still emerge. We need a peace

:44:14. > :44:17.process that is more inclusive. I have to say, I wish we would all

:44:18. > :44:21.listen much more to the member for North East Bedfordshire who happens

:44:22. > :44:30.to be one of the great experts in this region. There needs to be a

:44:31. > :44:35.prioritised, elite, we need to move away from prioritising elite level

:44:36. > :44:42.mediation and security concerns, particularly counterterrorism edged

:44:43. > :44:44.tips, to look at the economic needs of the population --

:44:45. > :44:49.counterterrorism initiatives. The process will need to give equal

:44:50. > :44:53.right to bottom up, grassroots local approach to peace building,

:44:54. > :44:58.alongside top-down, elite led interests, and ensure the political

:44:59. > :45:05.security and economic tracts of the transition are interlinked rather

:45:06. > :45:08.than dealt with separately. Failure to expand representation and to

:45:09. > :45:13.focus on local government will lead to renewed hostilities at a local

:45:14. > :45:21.level, that could push Yemen in a step closer to becoming a chaotic

:45:22. > :45:29.state. There are many reasons why we in the UK need to look with great

:45:30. > :45:38.attention at what is happening in Yemen. If you look at the map, Yemen

:45:39. > :45:46.sits on a narrow waterway linking the red Sea with the Gulf of Aden

:45:47. > :45:49.through which most of the world's oil and trade traverses. Security

:45:50. > :45:54.and stability in the Straits is vital to the whole of the world's

:45:55. > :46:01.economies. Whoever controls the Straits has a potential stranglehold

:46:02. > :46:07.on world colonies. This is a matter of urgent attention to the world. In

:46:08. > :46:14.my view, it is only the United Nations that can speak on behalf of

:46:15. > :46:20.the world. It is to the United Nations that we must turn, and to

:46:21. > :46:25.the United Nations the responsibility for building that

:46:26. > :46:31.bottom down, rather than top-down, coalition of support, for the people

:46:32. > :46:37.of Yemen, is where we must give our support. Rather than dividing into

:46:38. > :46:44.attacks on Saudi Arabia, attacks on Iran. Let's focus on the peace needs

:46:45. > :46:48.of the people of Yemen. Colleagues have used this phrase forgotten war

:46:49. > :46:53.a number of times during this debate. But like to pay to be to

:46:54. > :46:56.many members on all sides of the House to keep bringing the issue of

:46:57. > :47:02.Yemen back to the chamber to ensure it isn't forgotten. There is an

:47:03. > :47:06.acute humanitarian crisis, I don't want to go over those details again,

:47:07. > :47:11.many right honourable members who have spent time in Yemen have given

:47:12. > :47:16.the details. I would like to put on record my thanks and all of ours to

:47:17. > :47:26.the great contribution of our government the ?100 million of Dfid

:47:27. > :47:30.money that has been spent... I can't unfortunately hear the sedentary

:47:31. > :47:38.interventions. I'm very proud we have made that commitment to 0.7%.

:47:39. > :47:42.It is a huge part, says a lot about the coalition government, this

:47:43. > :47:46.government, and our commitment to be an outward looking, global nation.

:47:47. > :47:52.Particularly after the referendum result. Stability and peace in

:47:53. > :47:56.Yemen, it's what we are all here discussing, it is our aim, that's

:47:57. > :48:00.what's right for the people of Yemen. I've had argued its greatly

:48:01. > :48:05.in the interests of all our constituents as well. We've seen

:48:06. > :48:09.that when you have a war zone, when there are failed states, that is

:48:10. > :48:11.where these terrorist organisations thrive. It was Afghanistan, now it

:48:12. > :48:19.was Syria. Where we've got Daesh was Syria. Where we've got Daesh

:48:20. > :48:23.growing up, now they can't get any foothold in Syria they are moving

:48:24. > :48:28.into Turkey. We are providing people who want to kill our constituents

:48:29. > :48:32.with a training ground. The stability of that state can only be

:48:33. > :48:40.in the best interests of how we achieve that. I'm very happy to give

:48:41. > :48:42.way. I wholeheartedly agree, does she share my disappointment there

:48:43. > :48:48.continued to be a small number of members in the House who continue to

:48:49. > :48:53.say we should scrap the aid budgets, scrap Dfid? It is very much in our

:48:54. > :48:56.national security interests and those people suffering in those

:48:57. > :49:01.countries we continue to fund. I agree and I can see a bit of

:49:02. > :49:04.cross-party love growing up. LAUGHTER I don't think he's going to

:49:05. > :49:13.agree with the rest of my speech, but on this week totally agree. This

:49:14. > :49:16.is having a profound affect on the people of Yemen but this has a

:49:17. > :49:22.profound effect on the people of Saudi Arabia and the wider nation.

:49:23. > :49:26.They are suffering from migration and the effects of disease,

:49:27. > :49:30.terrorism on their borders. We've seen, and I've said before in my

:49:31. > :49:39.intervention, Saudi Arabia is a state which has existed only in the

:49:40. > :49:43.decades. It is a state that is in a state of transition. We had projects

:49:44. > :49:48.from some of its leaders about how they will go to further democracy,

:49:49. > :49:54.more representation from women. And from other groups. I think that as

:49:55. > :49:59.an ally, we should support them in that and we should support their

:50:00. > :50:01.government. I was heartened when the Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister came

:50:02. > :50:05.and spoke to members before Christmas about his openness and

:50:06. > :50:13.about how he recognised there is a great challenge in this country. We

:50:14. > :50:19.do not want a situation where Jeddah and Riyadh are controlled by Daesh

:50:20. > :50:25.or AQAP. This is a war which is legal, President Hardy, we can argue

:50:26. > :50:35.about how effective he is as a leader, is the leader that. --

:50:36. > :50:42.President Hadi. I know the honourable gentleman and I differ on

:50:43. > :50:48.the role of selling armaments to Saudi Arabia and I would echo some

:50:49. > :50:50.of the other comments on that. One must understand that relationships

:50:51. > :50:55.that are brought up in the Middle East, they take a long time, they

:50:56. > :51:02.rely on trust. We have to keep talking to people. And these

:51:03. > :51:12.historical relationships through trade and diplomacy really do take

:51:13. > :51:15.an awful long time. Has she seen the the European Council on foreign

:51:16. > :51:21.relations that has said it is absolutely vital that Europe and the

:51:22. > :51:26.EU keeps a good relationship with the GCC and the Arab League. That is

:51:27. > :51:32.under 2216 and the intervention in Yemen. If we are to resolve this

:51:33. > :51:34.problem, it is about relationships and building relationships, not

:51:35. > :51:40.destroying relationships like the member for Warwick and Leamington

:51:41. > :51:44.spa wants to do. I agree it is about relationships and it's about

:51:45. > :51:48.influence and guidance. The arms export control, what is written in

:51:49. > :51:52.the law is very important and my right honourable friend who was

:51:53. > :51:55.instrumental in overseeing it when he was the minister, that is

:51:56. > :52:00.important and we need to do that. All the Arms export it goes through

:52:01. > :52:06.a rigorous process. The coalition which was their fighting, led by

:52:07. > :52:10.Saudi Arabia but with aura vulnerable other Arab countries, is

:52:11. > :52:14.defending its borders and its interest. Because we've heard since

:52:15. > :52:18.what happened in the early 2000s that we want to get out of the

:52:19. > :52:24.Middle East, they need to be self-sustaining, independent, more

:52:25. > :52:29.democratic. I just need to finish this point before I lose my train of

:52:30. > :52:35.thought! We need to allow them to do that with the guidance that one

:52:36. > :52:41.would expect from an ally and a friend. Having our personnel back

:52:42. > :52:44.explaining about compliance with international humanitarian law,

:52:45. > :52:51.explaining about targeting, this is very important. Again, I don't

:52:52. > :52:55.really like saying what might Labour neighbours... If we aren't in there,

:52:56. > :52:59.who do we really think would be there doing that? This relationship

:53:00. > :53:05.is fundamental, and it is fundamental in terms of trade,

:53:06. > :53:09.security, intelligence and cooperation we get. I'm not going to

:53:10. > :53:12.speak for longer because I know there are more expert voices in this

:53:13. > :53:17.House, I thank the honourable members who are here today speaking

:53:18. > :53:21.in this debate, and I thank all of us must always think, what are we

:53:22. > :53:29.talking about. Is it actually going to protect Yemenis in the long run?

:53:30. > :53:33.Brexit aside, I feel as though this House has spent more time on Yemen

:53:34. > :53:38.than most other issues. That is not a complaint, I would spend as long

:53:39. > :53:42.as I could debating be disastrous situation facing people in Yemen.

:53:43. > :53:47.Sadly for me the evidence is this government isn't entirely listening.

:53:48. > :53:51.The misleading of the British people and international community over

:53:52. > :53:55.Saudi Arabia's intervention and use of cluster weapons in particular is

:53:56. > :53:59.a blot on the record of current and former members of this government.

:54:00. > :54:04.Ministers stuck to their stock phrases of denial, before the

:54:05. > :54:09.Defence Secretary was forced open the worst possible Christmas present

:54:10. > :54:12.and revealed that ministers had misled this House on a number of

:54:13. > :54:16.occasions. I wonder what is the likelihood of any such minister

:54:17. > :54:20.facing sanctions for their part in that cover-up? I'm not holding my

:54:21. > :54:23.breath. Perhaps the ministers concerned were to quit the

:54:24. > :54:29.honourable member for Bournemouth East, he said earlier this week,

:54:30. > :54:32.inadvertently, disingenuously misleading the House, although I'm

:54:33. > :54:36.sure that was probably not the case. At least none of the ministers were

:54:37. > :54:41.so misleading as the spokesman for the Saudi coalition who claimed that

:54:42. > :54:46.Saudi Arabia's British cluster bombs were obsolete and had been

:54:47. > :54:49.destroyed. In fact he declared that Tornado strike aircraft were not

:54:50. > :54:53.configured to drop their weapons. Now that our Defence Secretary has

:54:54. > :54:58.admitted British cluster bombs were used, it is interesting to wonder

:54:59. > :55:01.how, if the Saudis had no aircraft configured to deliver them. To get

:55:02. > :55:08.to the truth of the matter, we may find the governments denial only

:55:09. > :55:12.lasted as long as Saudi Arabia had any British made cluster bombs left

:55:13. > :55:15.to use. Someone appears to have made a calculation that the use of these

:55:16. > :55:18.weapons may be just enough to deliver the kind of victory that the

:55:19. > :55:23.Saudi and UK Government should deny their use until that have been

:55:24. > :55:27.achieved. Given the continuing situation in Yemen, I have to

:55:28. > :55:31.conclude that breaking the code of denial could be because Saudi Arabia

:55:32. > :55:35.has now only a few cluster bombs left to deploy. If it's not the case

:55:36. > :55:38.that stocks have been exhausted and there is evidence the Saudis still

:55:39. > :55:42.hold such weapons, will the government commit to doing all it

:55:43. > :55:46.can to have them withdrawn from service and destroyed, and for Saudi

:55:47. > :55:52.Arabia to sign the convention on cluster munitions? That is what the

:55:53. > :55:59.government is committed to doing, article 21 expressly obliges them to

:56:00. > :56:04.encourage non-members to ratify it. I encourage them to come back to

:56:05. > :56:09.report on progress on obtaining Saudi agreement to signing up to the

:56:10. > :56:12.convention. Interestingly the Convention uniquely allows

:56:13. > :56:16.signatories to cooperate but it doesn't require them to do so.

:56:17. > :56:20.Surely if we believe that cluster bombs shouldn't be used and

:56:21. > :56:23.especially not indiscriminately against civilian targets, is very

:56:24. > :56:27.clear we should not be working in a coalition doing exactly that. In

:56:28. > :56:32.addition to cluster bombs, the people of Yemen face another threat

:56:33. > :56:36.from increasing use of armed reins, especially in targeting so-called

:56:37. > :56:39.high-value Al-Qaeda figures. While the strikes have been part of US

:56:40. > :56:43.operations in other countries, those carried out in Yemen have been

:56:44. > :56:47.criticised for having far fewer safeguards than those in other

:56:48. > :56:49.countries. If that is the case will the government use its bilateral

:56:50. > :56:54.discussions with the Americans to press for a change in their

:56:55. > :56:57.approach? As the incoming administration in Washington take

:56:58. > :57:12.shape, many fear events are moving in on an helpful direction.

:57:13. > :57:19.Unfortunately it seems these are true reflections of his views, for

:57:20. > :57:22.instance that fear of Muslims is irrational. The most concerning

:57:23. > :57:26.aspect was not just a horrible nature of the statement but the

:57:27. > :57:31.shallow hate-mongering video that he was promoting to the world. I have

:57:32. > :57:35.some news for general fund, the president is a Muslim and saw two

:57:36. > :57:40.other leaders Saudi Arabia. Appointing somebody to play a key

:57:41. > :57:44.role in a conflict such as that in Yemen who states it is rational,

:57:45. > :57:48.take all those involved in the conflict frankly defies belief. In

:57:49. > :57:53.an earlier debate in Westminster Hall, the Right Honourable member

:57:54. > :57:58.chided those of us expressing concern about the Saudi coalition's

:57:59. > :58:02.tactics and behaviour and he suggested the situation was too

:58:03. > :58:07.complex for us to understand. He is of course entirely right that the

:58:08. > :58:10.situation is hugely complex, all the more need for an independent

:58:11. > :58:14.investigation but some issues are very clear and saw some of the

:58:15. > :58:19.actions that we must take because the UK's involvement in this

:58:20. > :58:24.situation is deeply regrettable. We must investigate. We must suspend

:58:25. > :58:28.arms sales to said Arabia and clarify exactly what the UK military

:58:29. > :58:31.personnel has been and we must do everything we can to build a

:58:32. > :58:34.consensus around individuals and institutions that can build a new

:58:35. > :58:38.future for Yemen. In that respect and please the United Nations

:58:39. > :58:42.rational and by two Yemen has called a new round of talks at the end of

:58:43. > :58:45.the month to advance the Constitutional process and I'm sure

:58:46. > :58:53.the House will join me in wishing participants well in their

:58:54. > :58:58.endeavours. I cannot say that it's a pleasure to take part in this debate

:58:59. > :59:03.about Yemen today. Must a year ago we discussed this very subject in

:59:04. > :59:06.this chamber and yesterday I reviewed what was said debate

:59:07. > :59:09.undergoes a source was a source of great sadness that I can read that

:59:10. > :59:17.my speech of 12 months ago because nothing has changed. Except the one

:59:18. > :59:20.thing the suffering of the people in Yemen has got worse and it is

:59:21. > :59:24.unimaginable suffering. Another thing has changed, many more members

:59:25. > :59:27.of Parliament are taking a keen interest in this forgotten conflict

:59:28. > :59:33.and members of the public including my constituents are aware of the

:59:34. > :59:38.atrocities taking place. The BBC's report was terrifying in showing

:59:39. > :59:41.what's going on, it's so easy to put parts of the world out of the public

:59:42. > :59:49.eye especially when there's a crisis nearby and Syria. My own interest

:59:50. > :59:52.lies because I've always felt a special affinity for the country and

:59:53. > :59:57.I'd like to return. I know the right on for Leicester East feels the same

:59:58. > :00:02.and they hope will be some of the first MPs to visit in the

:00:03. > :00:08.devastating Civil War. The situation continues to disintegrate and even

:00:09. > :00:15.with the United Nations road map this continues to be an

:00:16. > :00:18.implementation. I continue to be hopeful that by diplomatic means

:00:19. > :00:21.this can be resolved but that depends on the willingness of

:00:22. > :00:25.external powers to make that happen just as it does on the willingness

:00:26. > :00:32.of two sides in Yemen itself. The transfer of power could have been a

:00:33. > :00:40.fresh start and was brokered by Saudi Arabia and the Gulf

:00:41. > :00:43.cooperation Council. Hundreds of thousands of people peacefully

:00:44. > :00:47.demonstrated for democracy by the internal situation deteriorated led

:00:48. > :00:52.by the former president and the Houthi sore Yemen is in a desperate

:00:53. > :00:55.state. Having started as an attempt to put the democratically elected

:00:56. > :01:00.government in place it's now become a failed state with many different

:01:01. > :01:09.actors including Iran, Russia, Al-Qaeda, all creating chaos. Even

:01:10. > :01:12.worse humanitarian crisis. I would like the Minister to comment on his

:01:13. > :01:17.beach at the end of this debate to let us know what's going to happen

:01:18. > :01:20.following the inauguration of the United States president who appears

:01:21. > :01:29.to have a shaky grasp of issues the region. Secretary of State John

:01:30. > :01:34.Kerry spent much time working on the road map but I feel the UK

:01:35. > :01:38.Government might have to take the lead if we want to get a quick

:01:39. > :01:42.resolution to this humanitarian crisis, there is a real groundswell

:01:43. > :01:46.of support in this house and beyond for us to do just that. We have a

:01:47. > :01:52.very close relationship with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries as a

:01:53. > :01:56.critical friend that we have already pushed Saudi Arabia to be more

:01:57. > :02:09.transparent and investigate each violation and publish the results.

:02:10. > :02:14.Will she join me in commending the work of those RAF personnel who have

:02:15. > :02:19.been guiding the Saudis in relation to rules of engagement, it's

:02:20. > :02:22.absolutely critical that we are they are changing the nature of the

:02:23. > :02:29.conflict and is because that long-standing commitment that is

:02:30. > :02:34.possible. If we just simply criticise the Saudis, the conflict

:02:35. > :02:39.will get worse. We totally agree, we have a long-standing relationship

:02:40. > :02:44.between Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries. We can work side-by-side

:02:45. > :02:49.to create peace. We will need independent investigation into

:02:50. > :02:54.reports of breaches of international humanitarian law because of the

:02:55. > :02:58.violation by the Houthis but let's concentrate on getting the road map

:02:59. > :03:01.back on track first. Can the Minister confirm there are people on

:03:02. > :03:06.the ground who can verify each violation because I'm concerned

:03:07. > :03:09.there are difficulties of getting international experts in Yemen. We

:03:10. > :03:13.found about the humanitarian crisis and other speeches and I'm grateful

:03:14. > :03:18.to all the charities who work so hard in Yemen and updated regularly.

:03:19. > :03:23.I'm pleased the news channels have started to alert the public on this

:03:24. > :03:28.Civil War. Unfortunately pull in Yemen cannot escape. They are too

:03:29. > :03:35.poor or cannot cross borders because the only borders... Yemen has all

:03:36. > :03:41.been one of the poorest areas in the world. For the conflict 90% of food

:03:42. > :03:46.is imported with the closure of ports and lack of cranes, as when 40

:03:47. > :03:50.million people are no food insecure and have of them classified as

:03:51. > :03:55.severely food insecure, 7 million people. And sure we've all read

:03:56. > :04:00.about family scavenging on rubbish dumps just to survive. Because of

:04:01. > :04:05.the pressure the government has put on the coalition the blockade of

:04:06. > :04:12.ports has eased but imports are still significantly pre-conflict

:04:13. > :04:15.levels. Restrictions on access and insecurity are not helping and I

:04:16. > :04:21.urge the government to continue the pressure on the coalition and the

:04:22. > :04:29.Houthis two allowed aid to move through the country. Until flights

:04:30. > :04:33.resume into Sana'a and aid is allowed to flow, the humanitarian

:04:34. > :04:37.crisis will continue, and confident Yemen has the capacity to thrive

:04:38. > :04:44.again as it has done so in the short term and it has been peace. And

:04:45. > :04:47.those other major producer foil, responsible for three quarters of

:04:48. > :04:53.government income and there may be possibilities of exploiting other

:04:54. > :04:57.worlds, agriculture depends on fuel to drive irrigation pumps to produce

:04:58. > :05:01.cereal. It is estimated by the famine early warning system that

:05:02. > :05:07.planting a Stableford sucks is down 30%. This is not influenced by

:05:08. > :05:13.climatic conditions since rainfall has been healthy levels, it been at

:05:14. > :05:17.war and its consequences of destroying agriculture. Now the

:05:18. > :05:22.international community will want to help get Yemen back on its feet but

:05:23. > :05:26.that won't happen until we show leadership. I hope the UK Government

:05:27. > :05:29.will take that role immediately as there are too many people that

:05:30. > :05:34.depend on it. It's also in our national interest as Al-Qaeda and is

:05:35. > :05:38.night will use it as a base when they had been evicted from Syria and

:05:39. > :05:44.Iraq. There's no time to waste and I hope the house will continue to push

:05:45. > :05:55.for further action to save what could be a thriving country. Clearly

:05:56. > :06:01.the scale of the humanitarian crisis in Yemen is unimaginable and a

:06:02. > :06:05.number of members have preferred to some of the statistics involved, the

:06:06. > :06:20.only one I would refer to is the fact there are 90 million people.

:06:21. > :06:24.This is a huge crisis and one which the international community is

:06:25. > :06:31.responding to partially responding to. When the minister responds I

:06:32. > :06:37.hope he could update the House on the progress being made on the

:06:38. > :06:42.United Nations appeal which currently in the last to six I have

:06:43. > :06:52.seen is only just under 60% funded. I hope you could update us on that.

:06:53. > :06:57.I want to focus my comments and some members will not think it is the

:06:58. > :07:04.appropriate focus on the Saudi actions and why because clearly the

:07:05. > :07:10.military action that is taken by the Houthis and Saudis is a major

:07:11. > :07:16.driver. There's no that whatsoever that Houthis the are committing

:07:17. > :07:21.serious human rights abuses and the minister was right to point out in a

:07:22. > :07:27.written answer that in relation to the attacks on Saudi Arabia there

:07:28. > :07:30.have been 90 Saudi Arabian deaths. That's cross-border attacks and more

:07:31. > :07:37.than 500 people injured but I think it's right that we should focus our

:07:38. > :07:43.attention on the Saudi actions because they are allies and they are

:07:44. > :07:49.using the weapons we are providing them with. I'm only going to limit

:07:50. > :07:54.my remarks to a few questions which I hope the Minister will receive

:07:55. > :08:01.some answers or some inspiration for to respond to that the end of this

:08:02. > :08:06.debate and that's firstly whether the UK Government now if UK planes

:08:07. > :08:12.were used in the delivery of cluster munitions. This question has been

:08:13. > :08:17.paused before, I don't believe an answer has been given but I will

:08:18. > :08:24.take that to mean that probably they have in specific operations and I

:08:25. > :08:30.hope the Minister can say whether the government with the use of UK

:08:31. > :08:35.supplied aircraft to deliver cluster munitions whether there are any

:08:36. > :08:45.legal obligations under the cluster munitions act that would appertain

:08:46. > :08:51.to those activities. And whether the use of UK aircraft in that way would

:08:52. > :09:02.be covered by the UK cluster munitions probation. A number of

:09:03. > :09:06.members say cluster munitions were only sold to the Saudis up to a

:09:07. > :09:11.certain period but we know that 500 cluster munitions were delivered

:09:12. > :09:18.over a three-year period. What we also know is that they were only

:09:19. > :09:22.safe and suitable for service until 2008 and I wonder if the Minister

:09:23. > :09:30.could say anything when he responds as to what that means. In terms of

:09:31. > :09:34.the increased risk of civilian casualties because if they are only

:09:35. > :09:40.safe and suitable for servers until 2008 that must mean that more recent

:09:41. > :09:44.years would increase the risk of civilian casualties because

:09:45. > :09:53.presumably that means that ordinance would not explode on impact. I

:09:54. > :09:57.hope... ? And try to lean on my previous military experience but as

:09:58. > :10:02.a general rule I wouldn't want to go near anywhere near any munition

:10:03. > :10:06.which has passed its sell by date. I will write him with a more detailed

:10:07. > :10:12.answer but from what I understand is that the munitions were talking

:10:13. > :10:16.about did not fully blow up in the mechanisms they should have done,

:10:17. > :10:22.the fact that the did that meant they failed to actually work,

:10:23. > :10:26.therefore this is advice to any country that has got stocks in their

:10:27. > :10:31.armouries, once the sell by date has gone clearly they should be removed

:10:32. > :10:34.but in this particular case they are not signatures to the cluster

:10:35. > :10:39.munitions convention and from that perspective it's not illegal

:10:40. > :10:46.although we obviously advise against it to use cluster munitions. I

:10:47. > :10:50.understand that and certainly some members on this side would challenge

:10:51. > :10:55.the Minister on whether their use can be in any circumstances deemed

:10:56. > :11:00.legal. It's regrettable that the Minister is arguing in effect that

:11:01. > :11:03.in some circumstances their use can be considered legal because I think

:11:04. > :11:08.most people would consider their use or the impact of there used to be in

:11:09. > :11:14.discriminant in terms of their impact. A further point on cluster

:11:15. > :11:20.munitions... Following his argument in considerable and I'm grateful for

:11:21. > :11:32.him giving away and he knows that I'm going to make a counterpoint.

:11:33. > :11:37.Qatar are involved in this operation into Yemen, we supply coastal

:11:38. > :11:42.defence systems to Qatar, should we suspend coastal defence systems

:11:43. > :11:43.sales to the state of Qatar because they are involved in this particular

:11:44. > :11:52.action? Indeed, I anticipated what his line

:11:53. > :11:58.of enquiry might be. The focus of what I am saying today is on what

:11:59. > :12:02.the Saudis are doing. And the use of cluster munitions and whether there

:12:03. > :12:06.is sufficient evidence, for instant, to call for a suspension of their

:12:07. > :12:12.arms sales. I believe there is sufficient evidence to call for, to

:12:13. > :12:16.support the point that was made about the need for an independent

:12:17. > :12:21.enquiry. I think that there is. The point I wanted to make in relation

:12:22. > :12:25.to cluster munitions was whether the minister could explain whether he

:12:26. > :12:34.understands the basis on which the Saudi Arabians refused in 2010 to

:12:35. > :12:44.swap their cluster munitions for more precise bombs. Which I

:12:45. > :12:49.understand the MOD offered to do, in terms of a free swap without any

:12:50. > :12:54.cost implications. What was the government's understanding of the

:12:55. > :12:58.reason why at that point the Saudis refused to take up that offer. The

:12:59. > :13:05.final point I want to make is in relation to the joint incident

:13:06. > :13:08.assessment team, which as I made clear in early intervention, the

:13:09. > :13:13.government have had involvement with in terms of providing advice about

:13:14. > :13:31.how to investigate IHL matters. The Minister may be aware that one of

:13:32. > :13:35.the people on JIAT is Mansour Al-Mansour, who understand played an

:13:36. > :13:43.unfortunate role in Bahrain in terms of a series of trials which some

:13:44. > :13:48.have described as being, to use the exact quote, that during that trial

:13:49. > :13:51.process due process violations occurred at the pre-trial and trial

:13:52. > :13:57.levels that denied most defendants elementary fair trial guarantees.

:13:58. > :14:07.With the Minister like to comment on whether he thinks that person and

:14:08. > :14:14.others are suitably qualified to adjudicate on civilian casualties in

:14:15. > :14:20.Yemen. Clearly, the credibility Jiat must depend on the credibility of

:14:21. > :14:30.its individual members. Is the right honourable gentleman aware that

:14:31. > :14:36.Masour Al-Masour is known in Bahrain as the butcher? There are clearly

:14:37. > :14:42.significant concerns about his role and suitability for sitting on Jiat.

:14:43. > :14:48.I would like to conclude by saying that I think there is a huge amount

:14:49. > :14:53.of evidence that suggests the UK should suspend arms sales. And as

:14:54. > :14:57.was the point I'd like to finish on the first point made in this debate,

:14:58. > :15:05.that there is now an overwhelming case for an independent enquiry into

:15:06. > :15:10.Saudi activities in Yemen, and I fail to understand why the

:15:11. > :15:15.government don't show the same enthusiasm for such an independent

:15:16. > :15:18.enquiry as they did in relation to Sri Lanka, where of course our

:15:19. > :15:27.government, rightly in my view, made a strong case for just such an

:15:28. > :15:29.independent enquiry. I would like to start by thanking colleagues for

:15:30. > :15:36.bringing forward this debate today. The member for Liverpool, West Derby

:15:37. > :15:40.and the member for Warwick and Leamington. Although I don't

:15:41. > :15:45.entirely agree with their views on this matter, and I think they will

:15:46. > :15:53.recognise that, I do think it is an opportunity to debate and bring back

:15:54. > :15:57.into the public domain the issue of Yemen. I was also very, very

:15:58. > :16:05.interested to hear the very thoughtful contributions by the

:16:06. > :16:07.member for Bridgend and North East Bedfordshire. Sadly neither are in

:16:08. > :16:14.their places at the moment but I thought they both brought forward

:16:15. > :16:21.very, very thoughtful, contributions to today's debate. I really wanted

:16:22. > :16:27.to focus on the humanitarian aid side of the situation in Yemen.

:16:28. > :16:30.Given that I serve on the International Development Select

:16:31. > :16:36.Committee. This comes in a week when I have heard the term humanitarian

:16:37. > :16:42.crisis used. For me, what is happening in Yemen is a humanitarian

:16:43. > :16:48.crisis. Not some of the issues we've heard raised in this chamber today.

:16:49. > :16:51.In Yemen, it is two years since hostilities began to escalate. The

:16:52. > :16:58.suffering of children and their families continues. Today over 18

:16:59. > :17:02.million are estimated to be in need of humanitarian assistance, and many

:17:03. > :17:09.of these, very sadly, our children. Some have described as as a

:17:10. > :17:13.children's emergency. The United Nations has estimated more than 4000

:17:14. > :17:20.civilians have been killed. More than 7000 have been injured. It's

:17:21. > :17:24.been estimated that over 3 million Yemenis are internally displaced.

:17:25. > :17:29.They and many, many more suffer from food insecurity. Close to half of

:17:30. > :17:34.Yemen's health facilities are either closed or only able to function

:17:35. > :17:40.partially. I'm nearly 2000 schools remained closed, due to damage and

:17:41. > :17:42.destruction. As a member of the International Development Committee

:17:43. > :17:47.we often talk about the need for education for children, and through

:17:48. > :17:52.the sustainable development goals there is the term leave no one

:17:53. > :17:56.behind. In Syria we have concerns about no lost generation. I fear

:17:57. > :18:01.that in Yemen we may have another lost generation of children, who due

:18:02. > :18:04.to the conflict, their long-term future may suffer through lack of

:18:05. > :18:09.education. Last year on our committee, we heard evidence from a

:18:10. > :18:14.number of NGOs and from members of the Yemeni Dyas Borough. Some of

:18:15. > :18:21.their stories were really, really striking -- diaspora. The stories

:18:22. > :18:25.and evidence about the need for water, the food and for urgent

:18:26. > :18:33.medical supplies, things we take for granted in our ring country. -- our

:18:34. > :18:37.own country. Low levels of imports such as fuel and medicines, simply

:18:38. > :18:43.add to the already existing humanitarian crisis. As do the

:18:44. > :18:50.problems that Yemen's ports as well. Still in many ways, this conflict

:18:51. > :18:55.has been described continuously as the forgotten war. So I believe that

:18:56. > :19:04.debates like today really do help to continue to raise awareness... Of

:19:05. > :19:08.course I will. She has stood up and spoken for young people who are

:19:09. > :19:12.severely affected by this, particularly this forgotten war in

:19:13. > :19:17.Yemen. I hope she's going to talk about the outrageous, disgusting use

:19:18. > :19:22.of child soldiers in Yemen. And the UN report and Unicef have identified

:19:23. > :19:27.two groups, the resistance groups, not the UAE and Saudi armies, the

:19:28. > :19:34.resistance groups, and particularly identified the Houthis. The average

:19:35. > :19:39.age of those child soldiers, the predominant age is 6-8 years. It is

:19:40. > :19:46.absolutely outrageous and I hope she will pass comment on that. I'm

:19:47. > :19:49.grateful for the honourable gentleman's intervention. While that

:19:50. > :19:54.specific point was not in my speech I think he raises a very, very

:19:55. > :20:00.important point. The impact of war and children, not turns in the --

:20:01. > :20:05.not just in terms of lack of education and impact on their

:20:06. > :20:13.livelihoods, but also those dragged into war, and become a part of it.

:20:14. > :20:19.It's a very powerful point. I would say in the Unicef report that what

:20:20. > :20:23.was provided in the evidence was the Houthis particularly were purchasing

:20:24. > :20:32.young people from foreign countries and bringing them in to Yemen to

:20:33. > :20:37.fight as child soldiers. He makes his point very eloquently and I hope

:20:38. > :20:43.he will be speaking later in the debate, and elaborating more on

:20:44. > :20:47.that. As I said, today's debate, and debates like it, really do help to

:20:48. > :20:52.raise awareness. I believe they've raised awareness in this chamber on

:20:53. > :20:57.a number of occasions throughout the last year to 18 months. Also it has

:20:58. > :21:01.raised the awareness beyond this chamber, to those members of our

:21:02. > :21:06.constituencies, through the media as well. I fear it is so often

:21:07. > :21:11.overshadowed, quite understandably, by other events in the Middle East

:21:12. > :21:15.region. Of course I am referring to Syria. And yet according to save the

:21:16. > :21:20.children, Yemen is the country with the highest number of people who

:21:21. > :21:28.need humanitarian needs and assistance in the world at this

:21:29. > :21:31.moment in time. Conflict drives food emergencies and it's clearly

:21:32. > :21:36.impacting on the broader humanitarian crisis in Yemen. It

:21:37. > :21:45.also makes it extremely difficult for NGOs, aid agencies and Dfid to

:21:46. > :21:48.deliver aid safely. Those they've humanitarian corridors of vital and

:21:49. > :21:54.we must continue to press for those. At this point I think it would be

:21:55. > :21:58.fair for me to recognise the tremendous work and commitment of

:21:59. > :22:03.Dfid staff. The work they do in delivering UK aid to those who need

:22:04. > :22:11.it in Yemen. With over ?100 million in aid, through schemes such as the

:22:12. > :22:15.social fund for development, the Yemen humanitarian resilience

:22:16. > :22:18.programme, the programme to address malnutrition in Yemen, and

:22:19. > :22:23.protection support through the UNHCR. The UK is one of the leading

:22:24. > :22:28.donors to Yemen, in fact it's the fourth largest. Surely, this is a

:22:29. > :22:40.good indication of some of the good work that international development

:22:41. > :22:44.can do for those most in need. We must continue to use our leadership

:22:45. > :22:48.role to influence those other donors are as much as possible, to

:22:49. > :22:52.encourage them to step up to the plate, too. That brings me onto the

:22:53. > :22:57.wider point of a political settlement, and a cessation of

:22:58. > :23:01.hostilities. The UK has strong relationships in the region, and I

:23:02. > :23:05.would urge us to continue to use our influence in the region, to help

:23:06. > :23:10.bring about the lasting peace settlement that I believe we all so

:23:11. > :23:16.desperately are searching for. Particularly the people in Yemen.

:23:17. > :23:20.Today, we've also heard about and debated the security situation, we

:23:21. > :23:26.know that this is a brutal conflict. I do think we should recognise that

:23:27. > :23:29.there are allegations about violations of international

:23:30. > :23:34.humanitarian law, and that is what they are, allegations. They must be

:23:35. > :23:40.investigated, but surely we must not let that overshadowed the real

:23:41. > :23:45.answer to this crisis. That is a ceasefire, peace and long-lasting

:23:46. > :23:49.stability, not just in Yemen but in the region. In doing so, in making

:23:50. > :23:53.sure that we avoid a situation whereby a vacuum is created into

:23:54. > :24:01.which those whom we would not wish to enter could do so. There has been

:24:02. > :24:05.some very powerful contributions today and I welcome the chance to

:24:06. > :24:11.discuss Yemen in further detail. It has been talked about as a forgotten

:24:12. > :24:15.crisis, not in this House and not in Cardiff South. We have a long

:24:16. > :24:20.history of a Yemeni community in Cardiff who have long expressed

:24:21. > :24:23.concerns with me. But also a community that is willing to reach

:24:24. > :24:27.out to Yemen. I was delighted before Christmas to go along and support

:24:28. > :24:31.the DTC campaign raising funds for Yemen, which had already been very

:24:32. > :24:38.publicly supported by Grangetown primary school, the tram shed and

:24:39. > :24:41.the Cardiff Devils ice hockey team. An unusual coalition but had come

:24:42. > :24:47.together to make clear they didn't want to see the full that seems we

:24:48. > :24:54.have seen over Christmas people starving. Those horrific scenes

:24:55. > :24:57.referred to. I agreed by the comments made by many honourable

:24:58. > :25:00.members across the House about a need for an absolute focus on

:25:01. > :25:05.securing a ceasefire and peace settlement. It's only three that

:25:06. > :25:09.that we can truly address the horrors we are seeing there. That

:25:10. > :25:13.situation that Stephen O'Brien described as a humanitarian

:25:14. > :25:16.catastrophe. Oxfam International say that 7 million people do not know

:25:17. > :25:22.where their next meal is coming from. We've all seen those horrible

:25:23. > :25:32.images on our screens. The UN and the WHO estimate 18.8 million Yemeni

:25:33. > :25:37.sisters -- Yemeni citizens are in dire need and protection. Health

:25:38. > :25:41.facilities reported there have been almost 44,000 casualties, an average

:25:42. > :25:48.of 75 people killed or injured every day. 3.15 million internally

:25:49. > :25:52.displaced people. The import restrictions on imports. The crisis

:25:53. > :25:57.in access to food that has been caused by food shortages. And Oxfam

:25:58. > :26:01.report that almost half a million infants and young people are in need

:26:02. > :26:06.of immediate treatment for severe, acute malnutrition. The war has led

:26:07. > :26:10.to the collapse of imports of food and Yemen imported 90% of its food

:26:11. > :26:14.supplies prior to the escalation of the conflict. In November 2015, the

:26:15. > :26:19.country imported enough food supplies to meet demand but in

:26:20. > :26:24.October 2016, the imported food cupboard only 40% of the demands. If

:26:25. > :26:27.the plunging trends continue unabated, in four months many of the

:26:28. > :26:31.aid agencies are warning food imports may come to a complete stop.

:26:32. > :26:35.We've also seen the risk of a cholera outbreak because the

:26:36. > :26:42.restrictions on the imports of fuel are having a catastrophic effect on

:26:43. > :26:46.sanitation. We are seeing an extremely worrying rise in

:26:47. > :26:50.gender-based violence, especially sexual violence, domestic violence

:26:51. > :26:51.and early marriage. An increase of 70% more incidents reported to date

:26:52. > :27:16.and Impact on the conflict on children

:27:17. > :27:19.is appalling. 113-year-old, she said I see the damage everywhere and I

:27:20. > :27:24.see how many people are affected by the bombs, I feel scared when I see

:27:25. > :27:27.weapons and when I hear the sound of planes in the sky, when you hear

:27:28. > :27:32.that sound it means a big explosion will follow and people will be

:27:33. > :27:37.killed. Hospitals and schools are damage to, life is very difficult in

:27:38. > :27:42.Yemen right now and that's a very powerful testament from one of the

:27:43. > :27:46.people living through the conflict and the UN tells us 3000 children

:27:47. > :27:52.have been killed just since March 2015 and I want to pay tribute to

:27:53. > :27:57.the team working in Yemen. Our committee at the court found that

:27:58. > :28:00.they have been instrumental in supporting and facilitating the

:28:01. > :28:05.humanitarian relief effort through its timely and flexible response and

:28:06. > :28:10.it commended the department, it's doubled its humanitarian commitment

:28:11. > :28:16.and makes the UK the fourth-largest owner last year and it's why we have

:28:17. > :28:20.two adhere to our aid commitments, not only morally right but in our

:28:21. > :28:24.national interest and global interest. However, I believe and I

:28:25. > :28:28.have believed for a long time that this excellent work going on risks

:28:29. > :28:37.being undermined by the continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia which are

:28:38. > :28:44.being used in Yemen. I accept the very serious concerns that have been

:28:45. > :28:49.raised about the wider nature of the content, I don't have an agenda

:28:50. > :28:54.against our defence industry are Saudi Arabia but the reality is the

:28:55. > :28:58.UN estimates over 60% of civilian casualties were the responsibility

:28:59. > :29:01.of attacks by the Saudi led coalition and we might as well look

:29:02. > :29:05.at the current evidence, we've heard in the last few days about a Saudi

:29:06. > :29:09.led coalition air strikes which was reported to have killed five people

:29:10. > :29:16.including two children near a primary school in the north of Yemen

:29:17. > :29:20.and that's just in recent days. We've heard absolutely about the

:29:21. > :29:24.atrocities committed by the Houthis and I want to be clear, I recognise

:29:25. > :29:30.those and condemn them, we had about the issue of child soldiers,

:29:31. > :29:33.disgusting stories, blockading humanitarian access, using landmines

:29:34. > :29:39.and indiscriminate weapons against civilians just as cluster munitions

:29:40. > :29:42.are in the appalling attacks on the borders which have been killing

:29:43. > :29:49.civilians. We're not selling arms to the Houthis, we're selling arms to

:29:50. > :29:54.the Saudi led coalition and human rights watch report that 61

:29:55. > :29:59.allegedly unlawful coalition actions and air strikes resulting in the

:30:00. > :30:02.death of 900 civilians, attacks on markets, schools and hospitals and

:30:03. > :30:08.one of the Honourable members asked early on who is dropping these

:30:09. > :30:12.bombs. Human rights watch suggests US supplied munitions were used in

:30:13. > :30:16.23 of those locations and UK made weapons in two including one produce

:30:17. > :30:23.as recently as 2015 have been fined and those locations. Let's be

:30:24. > :30:26.absolutely clear, the UK is a signatory to the arms trade Treaty,

:30:27. > :30:31.we led the fight for this internationally and I'm proud there

:30:32. > :30:34.was cross-party support for it but successive governments have driven

:30:35. > :30:38.us forward and we signed up to the EU consolidating criteria and we

:30:39. > :30:43.have our own regulations on that and they are very clear. The call

:30:44. > :30:47.opinions say that the UK is potentially now in breach of the

:30:48. > :30:52.arms trade treaty Article 6.3 because they ought to have had the

:30:53. > :30:55.necessary knowledge that serious violations of international law were

:30:56. > :30:59.taking place and on the basis of a breach of article seven then there

:31:00. > :31:03.is a clear risk that future weapon is could be used to facilitate

:31:04. > :31:07.serious breaches of international law and that in such an ongoing

:31:08. > :31:12.crisis now feasible mitigation measures were deemed possible. It's

:31:13. > :31:18.a very clear position, we are signed up to these restrictions and we've

:31:19. > :31:23.had a series of obfuscations, a series of confusion is not only from

:31:24. > :31:26.the Saudis themselves but also from the UK Government changing their

:31:27. > :31:29.position on abrupt end as to whether they conducted assessments are not

:31:30. > :31:34.the nature of the assessments and when they were conducted and

:31:35. > :31:38.admittance is from the ministers and others we have seen little progress

:31:39. > :31:41.or slow progress in this and it's simply not acceptable. The Saudi

:31:42. > :31:46.Arabian Foreign Minister Kim twice a the honourable member, the former

:31:47. > :31:49.Foreign Minister pointed out and that was a great opportunity to

:31:50. > :31:55.question them and he gave his assurances there would be responses

:31:56. > :31:58.and we've not seen it, 180 documented incidents and some of

:31:59. > :32:02.these will prove to be not true but that's absolutely quiet we need a

:32:03. > :32:06.thorough investigation into what has been going on and the progress to

:32:07. > :32:10.date weather from the Saudi government or indeed from the UK

:32:11. > :32:14.Government who I believe does know what's going on in this situation

:32:15. > :32:17.and has conducted assessments and has got information in their

:32:18. > :32:22.possession that would indicate whether or not atrocities against

:32:23. > :32:25.civilians have been committed, we need absolutely some independent

:32:26. > :32:29.verification of what has going on and until we get that I completely

:32:30. > :32:32.support because that there has been for a temporary suspension of arms

:32:33. > :32:38.sales because of those principles that are laid out in the arms trade

:32:39. > :32:41.treaty. I very much hope Madam Deputy Speaker when the minister

:32:42. > :32:44.gets up he will provide some clear assurances as to what assessments

:32:45. > :32:49.are going on and what investigations are going on on whether he is

:32:50. > :32:53.convinced the UK is adhering to its legal obligations. We know there are

:32:54. > :32:57.legal proceedings ongoing and it's absolutely crucial the UK Government

:32:58. > :33:00.is clear before those proceedings, what it knew when it knew it because

:33:01. > :33:03.we have to have assurances that we're adhering to our international

:33:04. > :33:06.obligations but finally I would say that the solution to this crisis is

:33:07. > :33:11.only going to come through a negotiated solution. All of our

:33:12. > :33:16.efforts must be focused on that. There's a great degree of unity

:33:17. > :33:20.around that in the House and the need for humanitarian and

:33:21. > :33:26.responsibility and the need for an independent investigation. We have a

:33:27. > :33:30.part to play in this, we are selling arms to one of the parties and until

:33:31. > :33:36.we see that stopped I will remain unsatisfied. We've heard from many

:33:37. > :33:43.members this afternoon the reference to the phrase the forgotten war but

:33:44. > :33:47.as my honourable friend made clear this house has been doing everything

:33:48. > :33:51.it can to ensure that war is not forgotten and although he's not in

:33:52. > :33:53.his place I want to pay tribute to the right Honourable member for

:33:54. > :33:58.Leicester East for all he's done over many years to highlight the

:33:59. > :34:05.plight of the people in Yemen. It's a country in a region I know well

:34:06. > :34:08.having couple run the region and also to Yemen and around Yemen and

:34:09. > :34:14.it's therefore with a particular sadness that I regard the situation

:34:15. > :34:20.in that country as my honourable friend set out in her speech, I

:34:21. > :34:24.could make the same remarks to those I meet a year ago in the same debate

:34:25. > :34:31.in which she spoke. The honourable member for Liverpool West Derby set

:34:32. > :34:38.out as always with brilliance and inside the background to this

:34:39. > :34:43.situation and particularly I would draw attention to the fact he did so

:34:44. > :34:50.in a very measured and balanced tone and that is absolutely crucial to

:34:51. > :35:00.this debate. The prewar situation in Yemen was always complex. The

:35:01. > :35:05.president described governing Yemen as dancing on the Head of State

:35:06. > :35:11.snakes, so complex is the make-up of that country. -- on the head office

:35:12. > :35:19.makes. The most populous country in the Middle East yet it has the

:35:20. > :35:23.lowest annual income per head. It has significant economic challenges

:35:24. > :35:29.and a young male population seem very limited opportunities, even

:35:30. > :35:33.before the war for it to prosper. It's also a country which is heavily

:35:34. > :35:38.reliant on foreign imports and which is heavily armed even before the

:35:39. > :35:45.war. All of this created a challenge for that country before the conflict

:35:46. > :35:48.broke out and it is even more challenging now and we see it

:35:49. > :35:54.sitting in a geopolitical context in that region surrounded by a complex

:35:55. > :35:59.power network of different states and alliances which make it all the

:36:00. > :36:04.more important we focus on it. Possibly uniquely in this as I do

:36:05. > :36:08.not intend to repeat even though they are important points that have

:36:09. > :36:11.already been made at length by other honourable and Right Honourable

:36:12. > :36:19.members and B made very well. I would briefly touch on two things.

:36:20. > :36:22.One is the background and Saudi Arabia's involvement and then I will

:36:23. > :36:28.talk perhaps a little about the future. It is absolutely right as I

:36:29. > :36:33.think all Honourable members who have spoken that we remember there

:36:34. > :36:36.is fault on both sides and that simply attempting to apportion blame

:36:37. > :36:42.to one side or another does not advance the cause of peace and I

:36:43. > :36:46.would condemn as every other member would any deaths of innocent

:36:47. > :36:50.civilians and it's right that when the car they are properly

:36:51. > :36:55.investigated. As has been alluded to and I can set it out no more

:36:56. > :36:58.effectively, eloquently or erudite link on my right honourable friend

:36:59. > :37:04.the member for North East Bedfordshire the background. This

:37:05. > :37:14.came about from the attempt to take over the country by the Houthis and

:37:15. > :37:19.the march on Sana'a and the request from the government to get aid and

:37:20. > :37:22.the response from the coalition and we must render that just as there

:37:23. > :37:26.are consequences of action which what we are focusing on today there

:37:27. > :37:31.would have been significant consequences of inaction on that

:37:32. > :37:35.occasion had the Houthis been allowed to take over the country,

:37:36. > :37:41.significantly worse conditions for the people of Yemen but also greater

:37:42. > :37:45.regional instability and I risk to add national interest. We should

:37:46. > :37:49.also not forget that Saudi Arabia is regularly attacked in the context of

:37:50. > :37:54.this conflict across its border and has the right to defend itself and

:37:55. > :37:57.its right the coalition acted and stepped in and acted in defence of a

:37:58. > :38:00.legitimate government and regional stability. It's right the coalition

:38:01. > :38:02.acted and stepped in and acted in defence of a legitimate government

:38:03. > :38:05.and regional stability. Its right to remember that Saudi Arabia plays in

:38:06. > :38:09.that region and to our national interest in the partnership we have

:38:10. > :38:14.with them in intelligence matters and in taking on terrorism. That

:38:15. > :38:18.engagement and that relationship is vital to our national interest. It's

:38:19. > :38:21.not an uncritical relationship, as all our relationships with our

:38:22. > :38:28.friends are. We will be critical in a measured way is appropriate but

:38:29. > :38:32.not participating in a constructive way that would be significantly

:38:33. > :38:38.detrimental to our national interest, to the people of Yemen and

:38:39. > :38:42.to regional stability. I would conclude by focusing on the three

:38:43. > :38:48.key elements as we look towards the future. A ceasefire to allow aid to

:38:49. > :38:51.get in the country and talks to take place is absolutely vital and I

:38:52. > :38:57.don't think any member of this house would disagree with that and I would

:38:58. > :38:59.particularly pay tribute both to the right Honourable member for Rutland

:39:00. > :39:04.and Melton for the work you did in his previous role in pressing the

:39:05. > :39:09.case for a ceasefire and to the Minister for his tireless work. The

:39:10. > :39:15.people of Yemen could have no better friend in this country than the

:39:16. > :39:18.Minister for the Middle East to try and bring peace to the region. The

:39:19. > :39:22.second element once we have the ceasefire must be to deliver a

:39:23. > :39:27.long-term political settlement that will hold. The reality is that

:39:28. > :39:32.settlement must emerge from within Yemen itself and the people of Yemen

:39:33. > :39:35.and not be imposed from outside although of course countries and

:39:36. > :39:40.friends of ours such as Oman have a significant role to play I believe

:39:41. > :39:45.in facilitating such a long-term peace settlement and it must ensure

:39:46. > :39:52.that all tribes and all groups within Yemen are represented and

:39:53. > :39:57.that none are excluded. And finally it is important that we focus once

:39:58. > :40:01.we have that settlement in place on the rebuilding of Yemen and giving

:40:02. > :40:05.hope to the people of that country. That will involve investment in that

:40:06. > :40:10.country from outside, it will involve security, it will I believe

:40:11. > :40:21.have two involve a clear focus on fuel because so much of what goes on

:40:22. > :40:27.in Yemen is reliant on diesel fuel. Is this also not a prime example of

:40:28. > :40:32.where UN resolution 30.25 comes into play which involves the engagement

:40:33. > :40:37.of women in rebuilding our society after there has been conflict and in

:40:38. > :40:42.setting out the piste conditions because it is women and children who

:40:43. > :40:46.have been many of the victims in this war, is this not a wonderful

:40:47. > :40:51.example of how women can be involved in rebuilding Yemen? I could not

:40:52. > :40:54.disagree with it honourable lady in many ways she makes a point well,

:40:55. > :40:59.effectively and absolutely right about the role that women can play

:41:00. > :41:04.in rebuilding a country of the conflict but of course everyone in

:41:05. > :41:09.that country needs to play a role in helping to rebuild it. I hope that

:41:10. > :41:13.as we have the biggest today, when we next debate this matter we will

:41:14. > :41:16.have seen significant progress and I know that is what the Minister

:41:17. > :41:19.desires, I know it's what the British Government desires and what

:41:20. > :41:28.the people of Yemen desire and I hope that the 20 17th will bring

:41:29. > :41:35.peace to that trouble country. There's a hidden element through

:41:36. > :41:39.this debate. This house and the UK Government can hope to influence

:41:40. > :41:47.Saudi Arabia in its conduct and the other states of the Gulf Council. We

:41:48. > :41:52.have less hope and opportunity of influencing the Houthis and the

:41:53. > :42:00.various elements active in Yemen also including Iran. No one on this

:42:01. > :42:05.side of the House who wishes to be critical of Saudi Arabia is blind to

:42:06. > :42:11.the crimes committed against humanity and against their own

:42:12. > :42:12.people by the Houthis and other elements of the coalition government

:42:13. > :42:21.there. If we are talking about Saudi, it's

:42:22. > :42:26.not because we are ignoring the other side and its crimes. But if we

:42:27. > :42:33.are to be able to move the debate on, all we can do is to influence

:42:34. > :42:35.Saudi as a major ally of Saudi, as a major weapons supplier and market

:42:36. > :42:40.for Saudi. That's why we are doing it. So I think arguments from some

:42:41. > :42:45.members who have tried to present the discussion in terms of some

:42:46. > :42:48.people are arguing against the Saudis and forgetting about the

:42:49. > :42:54.others, that's not where we are going. We can influence Saudi. The

:42:55. > :43:02.argument is from people on this side of the House that the oven and --

:43:03. > :43:07.that the government has been negligent in how it has tried to

:43:08. > :43:16.influence Saudi. I'll give you some evidence. December 13, the United

:43:17. > :43:19.States government vetoed the sale of 16,000 guidance systems for

:43:20. > :43:25.munitions that were going to be sold by US companies to Saudi Arabia.

:43:26. > :43:33.That tells me a couple of things. Why does Saudi need 16,000 guidance

:43:34. > :43:40.systems for bombs? It is something to do with the disproportionality of

:43:41. > :43:48.the air offensive they had been conducting. That is getting in the

:43:49. > :43:52.way of a settlement. What began as a civil war, yes, with some

:43:53. > :43:56.implications around the Saudi border, what began as a Civil War

:43:57. > :44:04.has been turned into a humanitarian disaster by the scale of the action

:44:05. > :44:08.the Saudis have undertaken. The fact they are continuing, after there is

:44:09. > :44:13.very little left a bomb, I think suggests an unwillingness in the

:44:14. > :44:18.Saudi regime to come to some sort of compromise before they have been

:44:19. > :44:23.able to propose the settlement they want. I think it is incumbent on the

:44:24. > :44:27.UK to try and put pressure on the Saudis to reduce the scale of the

:44:28. > :44:32.bombing, to say you have do do something else. If the United States

:44:33. > :44:36.can do it, so can we. The spokesman for the United States when they

:44:37. > :44:43.announced the veto on the weapons sales in December said, we will not

:44:44. > :44:47.give a blank cheque to the Saudi regime. My criticism of the

:44:48. > :44:55.government is precisely that it's trying to give a blank cheque to the

:44:56. > :44:58.Saudi government. Does the honourable gentleman Bacall, and he

:44:59. > :45:03.makes his point well, does he recall in the statement given by the

:45:04. > :45:07.Secretary of State for Defence that he did make clear what the United

:45:08. > :45:12.States government have done was to suspend a particular license, but

:45:13. > :45:16.continued to supply military jets, helicopters and other ammunition to

:45:17. > :45:24.Saudi Arabia. It's not a blanket. I'm aware of that and

:45:25. > :45:29.simultaneously, with banning the guidance systems, the US agreed a

:45:30. > :45:33.major contract to supply battle tanks to Saudi Arabia. That just

:45:34. > :45:39.makes my point, that the whales to macro way you deal, if you presume

:45:40. > :45:46.Saudi Arabia is an ally, the way you deal with them is not to give them a

:45:47. > :45:50.blank cheque, but to say it's carrot and stick. The British government

:45:51. > :45:57.hasn't done that. The present government spent a long time arguing

:45:58. > :46:00.that British cluster weapons hadn't been used. Once that was

:46:01. > :46:06.definitively proved, it's moved back to saying Saudis to conduct its own

:46:07. > :46:09.enquiries. We have been training the Saudi air force, we helped set up

:46:10. > :46:13.the command and control system for the Saudi air force for the last 40

:46:14. > :46:17.years. If they aren't getting it right now, it's for political

:46:18. > :46:22.reasons. Not because of any defections within the system. So

:46:23. > :46:29.waiting on the Saudis to investigate is actually... We have to put

:46:30. > :46:32.political pressure on the Saudis to come to the table, to reduce the

:46:33. > :46:37.scale of their bombing, to move towards some kind of ceasefire, and

:46:38. > :46:40.to do it properly. If we don't do that, we let them off the hook. As

:46:41. > :46:48.long as the British government is being so soft on the Saudis in this

:46:49. > :46:58.context, then we will never get through the international enquiry.

:46:59. > :47:02.The member for Liverpool West Derby crystallised this debate at the

:47:03. > :47:07.beginning by saying, at what point does the British government move on

:47:08. > :47:15.from demanding the Saudis investigate the failures in the war

:47:16. > :47:22.to actually having an independent enquiry. That is the simplest thing.

:47:23. > :47:30.Even more modest a request of Her Majesty 's government bans are

:47:31. > :47:36.spending on cells temporarily. Final point. As long as the British

:47:37. > :47:39.government continues to underwrite this excessive Saudi bombing

:47:40. > :47:46.offensive, then more and more becomes likely that British

:47:47. > :47:53.personnel, British individuals... Does he not agree that the Saudis

:47:54. > :47:58.are able to purchase arms from abroad, from whoever, by selling

:47:59. > :48:02.petrol to nations like the United Kingdom. Perhaps he's been to a

:48:03. > :48:07.local petrol station near here and filled his car up with Saudi Arabian

:48:08. > :48:11.petrol. Did he ask at the petrol station, was it ethical petrol and

:48:12. > :48:18.was it funding arms purchase by Saudi Arabia? Fortunately in reply I

:48:19. > :48:27.can say I don't possess and have never possessed a driving licence.

:48:28. > :48:36.LAUGHTER That was rather flippant in the context. I am not trying to

:48:37. > :48:40.identify Saudi as the only culprit in this difficult situation. I'm

:48:41. > :48:44.saying the only people we can influence is the Saudi regime.

:48:45. > :48:50.That's why I'm making the point I am and why I think the motion, the

:48:51. > :48:54.specific dynamics of the motion, is to get the British government to

:48:55. > :48:58.underwrite and support such an independent enquiry. My final point

:48:59. > :49:07.is on the culpability of British service personnel. But the 2010

:49:08. > :49:13.cluster munitions act, and other like... Makes it clear it's an

:49:14. > :49:18.offence to assist in naval or induce other persons to make use of cluster

:49:19. > :49:24.bombs. That's quite a wide definition. As long as the British

:49:25. > :49:29.government goes on underwriting the Saudi air offensive, the more it

:49:30. > :49:35.becomes a possibility that British personnel could fall under that

:49:36. > :49:38.heading. The honourable gentleman is making some important points but

:49:39. > :49:41.does he not agree with me it's not just with regard to cluster

:49:42. > :49:47.munitions but the wider sales and compliance with the arms trade

:49:48. > :49:50.Treaty. When you look at the Freedom of information request, officials in

:49:51. > :49:52.the Foreign Office were clearly exercised due to the high-profile

:49:53. > :49:55.nature of the subject and the attention it's getting from

:49:56. > :49:59.Parliament, the media and the courts, it is advised we have the

:50:00. > :50:03.correct answers. They are clearly worried about their legal position.

:50:04. > :50:08.If that is why we are seeing such obfuscation from them? I think in

:50:09. > :50:17.his own contribution he made the wider legal case very well. My worry

:50:18. > :50:25.is for British personnel, if a legal case begins. The minister alluded to

:50:26. > :50:28.section nine of the act which gives a defence for British personnel

:50:29. > :50:36.involved in an international conflict with allies, who might not

:50:37. > :50:44.be party to the UN cluster convention. The problem is it is a

:50:45. > :50:47.theoretical defence. I don't think that section nine actually could be

:50:48. > :50:55.interpreted beyond the point where you knew that a member of a

:50:56. > :50:59.noncompliant state was using British cluster weapons deliberately, and

:51:00. > :51:05.for a long time, and causing great civilian casualties. I think that

:51:06. > :51:22.becomes a more Opec position in the law -- O -- opaque position. Madam

:51:23. > :51:31.Deputy Speaker, thank you. I thank the honourable members for securing

:51:32. > :51:34.today's important debate through the Backbench Business Committee. The

:51:35. > :51:38.humanitarian crisis in Yemen is continuing to worsen despite all of

:51:39. > :51:43.the Parliamentary time we've spent over the past months discussing it.

:51:44. > :51:47.The situation is continually deteriorating, despite all of the

:51:48. > :51:51.reassurances from a government that millions of pounds are being spent

:51:52. > :51:56.on aid. The suffering of the many people seems to have no end in sight

:51:57. > :52:00.in the near future. Meanwhile, according to figures from Oxfam,

:52:01. > :52:06.some 14 million people are food insecure, with around 7.5 million on

:52:07. > :52:11.the brink of famine. Unless something radically changes this

:52:12. > :52:15.situation is only set to worsen in 2017. Yemen is a country which was

:52:16. > :52:20.heavily dependent on food imports prior to the conflict, and the war

:52:21. > :52:24.has had a truly devastating effect on food security. What is making its

:52:25. > :52:29.way into the country simply isn't enough to meet daily demand. The

:52:30. > :52:35.decimated infrastructure of the country is making it impossible to

:52:36. > :52:38.get food to all who need it. It is unjust roads which are being

:52:39. > :52:44.destroyed, ports have been targeted by the Saudi led coalition. Their

:52:45. > :52:50.strikes on ports have led to only one of the six loading cranes still

:52:51. > :52:54.remaining functional. Prior to this, aid groups complained the coalition

:52:55. > :52:59.naval blockade stopped relief supplies entering Yemen. There is

:53:00. > :53:05.further evidence to suggest aid agencies are not being given proper

:53:06. > :53:10.opportunity to deliver this aid. About a year ago Oxfam and other

:53:11. > :53:15.NGOs were sent a diplomatic note stating if they were delivering aid

:53:16. > :53:19.anywhere close to where Houthis were operating, they were doing so at

:53:20. > :53:22.their own risk. In effect the Saudis were saying they wouldn't take

:53:23. > :53:29.responsibility for bombing aid workers if they were near Houthis.

:53:30. > :53:33.This is surely a breach of international humanitarian law and

:53:34. > :53:37.has when civilians are unable to receive aid. Hunger should not be

:53:38. > :53:44.used as a weapon of war, the famine early warning Systems network warned

:53:45. > :53:49.that to mitigate severe ongoing food insecurity and prevent famine in

:53:50. > :53:53.Yemen this year, the international community and local actors must

:53:54. > :53:58.protect the ability of private traders to import staple food. That

:53:59. > :54:02.more resources are needed to support the continuation and expansion of

:54:03. > :54:06.humanitarian response, and that traders and humanitarian actors have

:54:07. > :54:13.access to conflict zones. The UK needs to play its part and heed

:54:14. > :54:17.these recommendations. The Saudis are a key ally of the UK and we

:54:18. > :54:21.should be working to ensure they are acting responsibly in the conflict.

:54:22. > :54:26.Such responsibility includes military operations, and action

:54:27. > :54:31.should be proportionate to military threat. Yet we continue to hear

:54:32. > :54:36.reports that would suggest this isn't the case. Serious questions

:54:37. > :54:40.need to be asked of the Saudis about they're targeting. There are

:54:41. > :54:43.certainly too many documented cases of indiscriminate bombings which

:54:44. > :54:49.have led to thousands of needless civilian deaths. And injuries.

:54:50. > :54:54.Including many children. This conflict is certainly not one-sided

:54:55. > :55:00.but the fact remains that we are a key ally of the Saudis and have

:55:01. > :55:04.licensed ?3.3 billion worth of armed fails since they intervened in

:55:05. > :55:09.Yemen. We cannot shirk responsibility, that is particularly

:55:10. > :55:13.the case for UK supplied weapons where they are being used in the

:55:14. > :55:19.conflict. Too many questions remain properly answered about the use of

:55:20. > :55:23.cluster munitions. I have perceived the government on this issue since

:55:24. > :55:30.last June and I'm sick of its cluster bluster. Members of this

:55:31. > :55:33.House deserve nothing less than full transparency. In June last year I

:55:34. > :55:39.asked the MoD by way of written question, when the UK last

:55:40. > :55:42.maintained cluster munitions held by Saudi Arabia. The Secretary of State

:55:43. > :55:48.delivered a sink synced and blunt response but the UK has never

:55:49. > :55:55.maintained cluster munitions held by Saudi Arabia -- succinct and blunt

:55:56. > :55:58.response. A Freedom of information request was submitted by Amnesty

:55:59. > :56:04.international to the MoD. Contained within is confirmation that up until

:56:05. > :56:07.2008 there was contracted manpower support in place for the

:56:08. > :56:11.maintenance, handling and storage of cluster bombs. I will be seeking

:56:12. > :56:16.urgent clarification from the MoD on this and seriously hope I have not

:56:17. > :56:20.been misled by the Department. Furthermore, it is revealed in the

:56:21. > :56:30.Freedom of information response that the MoD offered to replace all of

:56:31. > :56:35.the Saudi stocks of cluster bombs with guided bombs as recently as

:56:36. > :56:39.2010. The Saudis continually refused his offer. The MoD must provide

:56:40. > :56:41.answers to the House urgently as to why this offer was allowed to be

:56:42. > :56:48.declined without repercussion. What her subsequent arms export

:56:49. > :56:55.licences being issued with a question when the Saudis have sole

:56:56. > :57:04.we also need concrete answers from them on how many of the bombs have

:57:05. > :57:10.been dropped in Yemen and absolute transparency on the targeting data

:57:11. > :57:15.of such air strikes. Furthermore, will be UK Government take sole

:57:16. > :57:18.responsibility for ensuring that any and all UK produced cluster

:57:19. > :57:26.munitions dropped in Yemen are cleared working alongside the mining

:57:27. > :57:29.institutions including the Yemen executive mine action centre and NPC

:57:30. > :57:36.the direct funding they received from the UK. In short, what I'm

:57:37. > :57:42.asking of the government is for an undertaking to clean up its own mess

:57:43. > :57:44.and to show an appropriate level of responsibility. Our foreign policy

:57:45. > :57:51.needs to put the innocent civilians of Yemen first and foremost no more

:57:52. > :57:56.than ever. Our efforts can help avert a full-scale famine but the

:57:57. > :58:04.time to act is no one to help to secure a ceasefire. At first like to

:58:05. > :58:11.thank the member for West Derby for bringing this and the member for

:58:12. > :58:18.Warrican Leamington spa and my honourable friend from Leicester

:58:19. > :58:23.West said the contribution of the member for North East Bedfordshire

:58:24. > :58:29.which was each and every minute whilst a valuable contribution to

:58:30. > :58:39.this debate. The primary purpose of this debate is to end the killing,

:58:40. > :58:45.to end the suffering, to get a ceasefire to stop the humanitarian

:58:46. > :58:48.crisis is just not the primary purpose, is pretty much the sole

:58:49. > :58:56.purpose what we're here to do there are some other ancillary issues but

:58:57. > :59:02.that is what we're to do this as a humanitarian crisis, a forgotten war

:59:03. > :59:07.that is underreported, and are considered and I welcome this debate

:59:08. > :59:11.because I think that we must elevate this debate not only for the people

:59:12. > :59:16.who live in Yemen but the people in the region who are going to suffer

:59:17. > :59:20.and perhaps the people of western Europe with reference to some of the

:59:21. > :59:30.extreme Islamist elements within Yemen. This is a history of a

:59:31. > :59:33.country that's had problems, a despotic leader to members of the

:59:34. > :59:38.labour club to Accrington, the problem is you got a despotic leader

:59:39. > :59:47.in Sana'a who was returned, once fought by the Houthis and now he's

:59:48. > :59:54.involved in a war after joining them. He very simple view but the

:59:55. > :00:05.view the United nations takes on the 2216. There has been a coup by some

:00:06. > :00:08.very terrible people, Houthis and other and the resistance have got

:00:09. > :00:13.involved as well on the other side in committing some atrocious acts in

:00:14. > :00:18.what has been a vacuum created by the former president who is now

:00:19. > :00:25.causing trouble again where we are with this series of this issue is is

:00:26. > :00:29.that if we don't stop and prevent this conflict in 2017, if we don't

:00:30. > :00:36.resolve the situation and will bring a ceasefire, we risk ending up in a

:00:37. > :00:42.situation where it is intractable, where it is not in the interests of

:00:43. > :00:46.Iran or Saudi Arabia to have a peaceful settlement because they

:00:47. > :00:51.will continue that Middle East proxy war, we have not to allow this

:00:52. > :00:58.conflict to get to that stage and that is one of the reasons why the

:00:59. > :01:02.UN 2216 talks about an arms embargo and the blockade and trying to stop

:01:03. > :01:07.some of the assets being transferred in which are bringing illegal

:01:08. > :01:12.weapons, guns and munitions into Yemen and exaggerating the

:01:13. > :01:16.situation. As I pointed out earlier, let's just look at the scale of

:01:17. > :01:23.this. 6-8 -year-olds reported by the United Nations carry Kalashnikovs

:01:24. > :01:32.and are being killed. This is the war that we face and on one side. I

:01:33. > :01:38.fully take what he sing about the use of child soldiers by Houthis the

:01:39. > :01:44.by does he not remember that the United Nations found that Saudi

:01:45. > :01:49.Arabia was culpable of being the biggest killer of children in the

:01:50. > :01:52.war in Yemen through its bombing and the Saudi resume forced the United

:01:53. > :01:58.Nations to take Saudi off its list of states that were the worst for

:01:59. > :02:02.dealing badly with children. A very valid point, the United Nations has

:02:03. > :02:09.had trouble and there is nobody in this chamber who thinks that either

:02:10. > :02:14.side are right in this. Both sides are killing people and that's what

:02:15. > :02:19.needs to end and what we have to focus on, not blaming individual

:02:20. > :02:26.nations. Now, let me just put the record straight, I come to this

:02:27. > :02:30.debate frustrated. 2016 was the year of post-truth, false fact, fake

:02:31. > :02:35.news. It was a terrible year for Britain and for the world in which

:02:36. > :02:42.moderate people and democracy lost arguments to extremists, right part

:02:43. > :02:46.on one side, the Canary on the other, the Albright, or the hard

:02:47. > :02:53.left on the Labour Party and Yemen is being used as the next vehicle to

:02:54. > :02:59.advocate some lunacy rather than the principal position of how can we

:03:00. > :03:02.help these people. And it's about time that moderate Britain fought

:03:03. > :03:09.back against some of these extremists who pursue these views.

:03:10. > :03:17.And it's important, we must not allow this to become an Iran versus

:03:18. > :03:20.Saudi conflict because it will become intractable. However, I do

:03:21. > :03:25.accept as well if you read all the reports there is a massive

:03:26. > :03:29.complication on the ground, it's not simply Iran versus Saudi, we haven't

:03:30. > :03:33.arrived at that position yet but it's one that we ought to be

:03:34. > :03:38.exceedingly mindful of. We have President Salah, the guy that robbed

:03:39. > :03:46.Yemen basically, this is the guy that when he was president he was...

:03:47. > :03:52.And arms dealer, he was buying bullets at 50 cents as an arms

:03:53. > :03:59.dealer and selling them to himself as president at a dollar a time.

:04:00. > :04:04.Buying Kalashnikovs and guns at $150 as an arms dealer, selling them to

:04:05. > :04:11.himself as the president at $600. The UN report describes this man as

:04:12. > :04:18.creaming off the whole of the year many -- Yemeni state. And one Depor

:04:19. > :04:21.there were 1500 troops, he had an invoice for 80,000 troops. There are

:04:22. > :04:26.nine teachers for every child in Yemen if you believe residents Salah

:04:27. > :04:30.and of course he wants to get back his position and he wants to bring

:04:31. > :04:37.in all the money and assets that the United Nations are trying to freeze

:04:38. > :04:39.to fund this war in which ordinary people are being mercilessly killed.

:04:40. > :04:46.Let's just faced some truths about this. The biggest donors to Yemen

:04:47. > :04:51.over the years that have prevented the humanitarian crisis being what

:04:52. > :04:58.it is today has been the GCC, has been Saudi Arabia and because of the

:04:59. > :05:03.Houthis aid tap has been turned off but worse than that because the

:05:04. > :05:06.Houthis want to find Saudi Arabia on the border we got a situation where

:05:07. > :05:13.Saudi Arabia can no longer have foreign workers from Yemen working

:05:14. > :05:17.in Saudi Arabia. It's logical so all the remittances have dried up, no

:05:18. > :05:21.wonder the country is in poverty and we're allowing these people to get

:05:22. > :05:26.away with it so it is obvious why UN resolution

:05:27. > :05:36.2216 PINS at all on the Houthis, the people who started this in line with

:05:37. > :05:43.the person they were fighting, president. We have got to try and

:05:44. > :05:49.deal with it but it is about building bridges and what's in the

:05:50. > :05:52.UN report is the GCC have tried at Geneva twice at the Muscat

:05:53. > :05:56.principles to bring both parties together for a peaceful settlement

:05:57. > :06:03.and who is the party that is resisting the peace talks? The

:06:04. > :06:06.Houthis will not allow a peace delegation to fly to Geneva, will

:06:07. > :06:13.not allow the UN express to see the situation on the ground. This is a

:06:14. > :06:16.group of people who in my mind and I say this to people and Accrington,

:06:17. > :06:19.they're just try to rob the state, not interested in a peaceful

:06:20. > :06:25.settlement and it makes it difficult but we should never abandon the

:06:26. > :06:31.principle of trying to build bridges that also applies to not trying to

:06:32. > :06:38.upset on to stabilise the Gulf cooperation Council or the Arab

:06:39. > :06:43.league. I very much enjoyed listening to his remarks. One of the

:06:44. > :06:45.thing that shows their intent is the coup disrupted the constitutional

:06:46. > :06:49.process that was in place in Yemen to try to bring a lasting and stable

:06:50. > :06:58.government. But I wish this debate was for two hours and I can speak

:06:59. > :07:03.for two hours. The Onomah member for West Derby is right. I could go for

:07:04. > :07:06.three hours. The proposal from a constitutional settlement was for a

:07:07. > :07:11.six estate federated Yemen and who walked away from that? The president

:07:12. > :07:15.walked away from the talks in Geneva because he didn't want a federated

:07:16. > :07:19.because he wanted to do what he was doing before, milk the state for

:07:20. > :07:24.himself. This is the problem and all the meantime people are suffering.

:07:25. > :07:30.Now the Saudis are trying to get a den, we've donated ?100 million, I'm

:07:31. > :07:33.pleased we've done that, that's a fraction to what Saudi Arabia done

:07:34. > :07:37.it and yet were trying to castigate them and that's just Saudi Arabia so

:07:38. > :07:41.let's just talk about the conflict. This has been presented against

:07:42. > :07:45.Saudi Arabia against the people of Yemen. What an absolute load of

:07:46. > :07:49.garbage. They are operating under a UN mandate, the Gulf cooperation

:07:50. > :07:55.Council, five members, four members of the Arab League are operating

:07:56. > :07:59.under that mandate of which Saudi are one component. They are the

:08:00. > :08:03.biggest component, I'm not denying that, they are also guilty it

:08:04. > :08:07.appears of doing some awful things and they should be held to account,

:08:08. > :08:12.nobody is saying that anybody should be exempt from the law, nobody

:08:13. > :08:17.saying that but we must never take our eye off the ball that people are

:08:18. > :08:23.suffering in Yemen and how did we get to the end result of relieving

:08:24. > :08:27.that suffering? That is the primary purpose and I'm never going to slip

:08:28. > :08:31.from that, not going to be taken on some hard left loony left or right

:08:32. > :08:36.wing bandwagon about arms sales to Saudi Arabia if that impacts

:08:37. > :08:43.negatively on the people in the region. I stand unequivocal. I'm

:08:44. > :08:49.there to help the people of Yemen and I want to see the best outcome

:08:50. > :08:55.for them. I thank him for giving way. Is he aware however that after

:08:56. > :09:00.the strike on the funeral in which 140 people died, even the UK

:09:01. > :09:04.Government was quoted as saying it was going to review its policy

:09:05. > :09:08.towards arms exports to Saudi Arabia and I wonder if he has had any

:09:09. > :09:14.feedback on what that review has stated? There is an issue and a

:09:15. > :09:20.concern and it is a well-meaning and it is a genuine concern that the

:09:21. > :09:24.speed and efficacy of Saudi's investigations into some of the

:09:25. > :09:29.things that they've done is not up to the required standard. However,

:09:30. > :09:35.they have as has been explained by many honourable members attempted at

:09:36. > :09:42.least to come to this place, to speak with foreign powers, to allow

:09:43. > :09:46.coalition partners who buy military equipment as well as British to be

:09:47. > :09:52.involved in looking and training at what is going on, have tried to be,

:09:53. > :09:58.to a degree, we will know what that degree as, transparent. One of the

:09:59. > :10:05.issues that hasn't been addressed here is if you take Saudi Arabia out

:10:06. > :10:12.of this, if you isolate that coalition, is there a risk that Isis

:10:13. > :10:17.will fill that gap and flourish in Yemen and make the conflict even

:10:18. > :10:20.worse? She's taken the words right out of my mouth and congratulate her

:10:21. > :10:24.for raising the point that's not been raised enough. If you read the

:10:25. > :10:33.UN report and all of the reports, this is the situation on the ground,

:10:34. > :10:37.you have the Houthis marching south, next to no government forces,

:10:38. > :10:41.marching through and they are marching into Sunni areas and we are

:10:42. > :10:46.seeing a repeat of Mosul, history repeat itself in Iraq, Shias

:10:47. > :10:52.marching into Sunni areas and the consequences of that like Mosul this

:10:53. > :10:58.to consolidate the black flag over these places and so when I see

:10:59. > :11:04.130,000 Saudi troops marching to the south, when I see the UAE send

:11:05. > :11:07.synth, I at least, if I lived there I would prefer that but I'm at least

:11:08. > :11:14.satisfied that some degree of military civil forces moving into

:11:15. > :11:23.place to try and secure rather than allow which is what's happening

:11:24. > :11:26.communities to be fearful, to have extremists who then turned to their

:11:27. > :11:30.towns and communities and say the only way that we can defend

:11:31. > :11:35.ourselves from those Houthis is to raise the black flag.

:11:36. > :11:43.It will be terrible because we will not be to remove lifeless from years

:11:44. > :11:47.to come, we are storing up a major problem. -- Isis. When I see the

:11:48. > :11:52.troops moving to South Yemen I think it has to be welcomed because let's

:11:53. > :11:57.not forget, it is not the Houthies who are using child soldiers but the

:11:58. > :12:03.resistance using child soldiers as well. Both sides are using child

:12:04. > :12:09.soldiers and what we need is a restoration of civil governance. We

:12:10. > :12:11.cannot support the coup against the legitimate government even if that

:12:12. > :12:18.government wasn't popular or efficient. We cannot allow that. I

:12:19. > :12:21.want to discuss arms because some issues on this have not been

:12:22. > :12:29.discussed. Who are supplying arms to Yemen? If you read the US register

:12:30. > :12:36.of interest I will give you the list, Russia, Bulgaria, Moldova,

:12:37. > :12:43.France, USA, Ukraine, Belarus, China, tanks, attack aircraft, Mick

:12:44. > :12:47.jets, rocket launchers, all of these have been provided into the nation

:12:48. > :12:52.of Yemen. I will tell you one country that hasn't supplied arms to

:12:53. > :12:56.Yemen, the United Kingdom. They have not supplied, we have not supplied

:12:57. > :13:03.arms to Yemen but all these other countries have. I think that ought

:13:04. > :13:12.to be noted, we have a robust and good system of arms control and arms

:13:13. > :13:18.export control. I do apologise Deputy Speaker. I will lend their

:13:19. > :13:23.that 2017 will be a year in which we will seek a ceasefire and anybody

:13:24. > :13:31.who wants a job on the passing bandwagon of using Yemen as stopping

:13:32. > :13:38.arms sale to Saudi Arabia I will stand up and oppose them. Thank you

:13:39. > :13:46.Madam Deputy Speaker. As you've heard the conflict in Yemen has been

:13:47. > :13:49.labelled and I want to contribute to the comment earlier that is not in

:13:50. > :13:53.this house and also for that reason I would like to congratulate and

:13:54. > :13:56.paid tribute to both members of Liverpool and West Derby and

:13:57. > :14:01.Leamington for the excellent contributions to this debate which I

:14:02. > :14:04.have enjoyed. And also ensuring instead that this parliament and

:14:05. > :14:10.although set have a chance to keep this issue at the forefront of

:14:11. > :14:15.public debate and to remember those killed and injured as a result of

:14:16. > :14:19.this ongoing violence. To remember those who are starving or stricken

:14:20. > :14:23.with illness as a result of breakdown of civil society and to

:14:24. > :14:27.remember that the UK has a central role to play in the Middle East and

:14:28. > :14:34.indeed the role it has played in the conflict. It is our moral and civic

:14:35. > :14:37.duty and also in our best pragmatic strategic self-interest to do all we

:14:38. > :14:42.can to help end the conflict and bring peace to Yemen. I think we

:14:43. > :14:48.have consensus that this is indeed what everybody wants to happen.

:14:49. > :14:52.First and foremost because the suffering has reached a horrifying

:14:53. > :14:57.tipping point, I was grateful this week to have the opportunity of

:14:58. > :15:01.hosting a presentation by a range of aid organisation setting up the

:15:02. > :15:08.scale and scope of the suffering we are now seeing. We were warned by

:15:09. > :15:17.Oxfam, the Yemen safe passage grave and others that the danger of famine

:15:18. > :15:20.in the country are very real. She mentions Oxfam and I have been

:15:21. > :15:24.contacted by number of constituents supporting the Red Line for Yemen

:15:25. > :15:29.campaign, will she join me in welcoming back campaign and support

:15:30. > :15:34.for the Government to uphold the spirit of the arms trade and end any

:15:35. > :15:41.illegal arms trade which will call suffering in Yemen? I'm grateful to

:15:42. > :15:47.my friend in raising that campaign and I hope many more people will

:15:48. > :15:52.sign up to it. Even before this conflict Yemen was relying on

:15:53. > :15:58.external imports of around 95% of its food. By October 2016, the

:15:59. > :16:03.combined efforts of a blockade of ports by coalition forces and damage

:16:04. > :16:12.to roads meant that imported food only covered 40% of demand. I would

:16:13. > :16:15.ordinarily give way that the honourable gentleman has had 15

:16:16. > :16:20.minutes to make his speech and I want to make sure the Minister can

:16:21. > :16:26.answer the questions posed to him, please forgive me. Oxfam have stated

:16:27. > :16:32.if this continues unabated then informants food imports will come to

:16:33. > :16:36.a complete halt. And to add to this spiralling economic problems which

:16:37. > :16:40.face the country, the central bank has stopped salary payments as well

:16:41. > :16:44.as pension payments to the elderly and welfare payments to the

:16:45. > :16:50.vulnerable, the human tragedy on an epic scale is upon us. The estimate

:16:51. > :16:54.of these experts is that by April or May this year there is a high

:16:55. > :16:57.likelihood of what they call a cataclysmic famine which would

:16:58. > :17:02.condemn millions madam Deputy Speaker to suffering and death. It

:17:03. > :17:05.is important that we bear in mind that these victims are not a

:17:06. > :17:13.by-product of the conflict, they are the target of military action with a

:17:14. > :17:17.lack of food being used as a weapon of war. We have a moral

:17:18. > :17:25.responsibility to our fellow human beings to address this crisis. I

:17:26. > :17:27.welcome the work being carried out by aid organisations in Yemen to

:17:28. > :17:32.make sure aid is delivered to those who need it now and I recognise that

:17:33. > :17:35.the UK Government has contributed over ?100 million worth of aid to

:17:36. > :17:38.the country for the Scottish Government has made donations to the

:17:39. > :17:45.ongoing disaster emergency committee appeal. Our charity alone will not

:17:46. > :17:51.avert this. What the people of Yemen need now as much as they need food

:17:52. > :17:55.is international leadership. I want to welcome the efforts of the US

:17:56. > :17:59.Secretary of State who try to broker a ceasefire still at the end of last

:18:00. > :18:04.year but what we do know is that the incoming trump administration is

:18:05. > :18:08.unlikely to take the same view in the region. I fear that the policies

:18:09. > :18:12.of the new White House administration will instigate a

:18:13. > :18:15.worrying degree of instability in the Middle East, a point also made

:18:16. > :18:25.by the Member of points maths south. . Because of the vacuum that has

:18:26. > :18:29.been created with the new administration, Britain holds the

:18:30. > :18:35.pen as we are told in the Security Council. There is nothing to stop us

:18:36. > :18:39.hosting a conference that will try and bring all the sides together as

:18:40. > :18:42.well as taping the resolution because it will be several months

:18:43. > :18:47.before the American administration will take office and get into the

:18:48. > :18:52.right positions and of course they may take a different do to the Obama

:18:53. > :18:55.administration. I'm very grateful for the Member of Leicester for his

:18:56. > :18:59.comments and indeed absolutely that is a demonstration of how we can

:19:00. > :19:04.show international leadership. I know the Secretary of State has been

:19:05. > :19:09.active in this area but we need to build on his efforts to date. We

:19:10. > :19:17.should do so not so because of the humanitarian crisis but also

:19:18. > :19:22.strategic in stopping the bastions of Al-Qaeda whilst de-escalating the

:19:23. > :19:26.tensions of a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Before we

:19:27. > :19:39.take on the role of peace broker we have to face our role in the

:19:40. > :19:46.conflict now. The UK too has often as its quartermaster. This must end

:19:47. > :19:53.now. The UK has exported ?3.3 billion of military committee Saudi

:19:54. > :19:57.Arabia since 2015 and if we're to be an honest broker the Government must

:19:58. > :20:02.suspend arms deals to Saudi Arabia and facilitate a full independent UN

:20:03. > :20:08.led enquiry into devious conduct in the war in Yemen. This has to happen

:20:09. > :20:18.because we also now know that after consistently failing to live up to

:20:19. > :20:21.his responsibilities to -- these responsibilities, the current

:20:22. > :20:25.approach to arms sales has failed in the case of Yemen and the Yemeni

:20:26. > :20:30.people are the innocent victims. This government must show the

:20:31. > :20:34.leadership as that shown by the Netherlands in suspending licences

:20:35. > :20:39.for arms exports to Saudi Arabia. More specifically the US government

:20:40. > :20:42.has a ready been alluded to by the Member for East Lothian, the US

:20:43. > :20:46.government banned the sale of guided munitions kits to Saudi Arabia. I

:20:47. > :20:53.would like to ask the Minister today if he could clarify whether the UK

:20:54. > :20:56.has granted export licence to any similar weapons, manufactured here

:20:57. > :21:02.in the UK and would it be happy to do so in the future. Rather than

:21:03. > :21:04.relying on the Saudis to dispose of these weapons themselves, ministers

:21:05. > :21:13.should demand that these weapons are turned over to our personnel for

:21:14. > :21:18.disposal. Is it not our own legal obligation to do everything we

:21:19. > :21:22.possibly can to prevent their use? Decommissioning them ourselves would

:21:23. > :21:28.serve this responsibility. Will ministers pledge to do so today?

:21:29. > :21:34.Finally in order to be an honest broker, we need to be clear of the

:21:35. > :21:39.involvement in UK forces on the ground in Saudi Arabia. When

:21:40. > :21:42.published reports recommended that the UK Government and to the

:21:43. > :21:47.following questions, how many UK personnel assisting the Armed Forces

:21:48. > :21:56.and in what roles including BAE Systems and employees. What is the

:21:57. > :22:00.extent of the operations and how the UK personnel advising the Saudi

:22:01. > :22:04.Arabian Armed Forces on law and what level of understanding do they have

:22:05. > :22:08.of the coalition 's regard for international humanities and its

:22:09. > :22:12.operations in Yemen. These answers should be forthcoming now. Madam

:22:13. > :22:20.Deputy Speaker, this government has an opportunity to show international

:22:21. > :22:24.leadership, it has an opportunity to use our own power and influence in

:22:25. > :22:29.the Middle East. To stop violence and not sell more weapons. It has an

:22:30. > :22:33.opportunity to end suffering, the suffering of millions of Yemeni men

:22:34. > :22:38.and women and children, but in order to do this it must come clean with

:22:39. > :22:41.this house and with the country in our involvement to date and the

:22:42. > :22:48.actions it has taken to put things right. And then truly then, it can

:22:49. > :22:57.then play its part in consigning this forgotten conflict to history

:22:58. > :23:02.where it belongs. Let me start by echoing everything that my

:23:03. > :23:05.honourable friend, the Member for West Derby and both sides of the

:23:06. > :23:09.House have said today about the humanitarian crisis in Yemen. Making

:23:10. > :23:14.gradually my honourable friend for securing this very important debate.

:23:15. > :23:18.Let me also make it clear at the outset that we agree with the

:23:19. > :23:24.principles behind a UN resolution 2216. We all want to see Yemen

:23:25. > :23:27.restored to the of legitimate stable and democratic government is capable

:23:28. > :23:31.of peacefully leading the whole world, the whole country and we all

:23:32. > :23:36.want to see the beauty rebels hold to account for the illegal coup and

:23:37. > :23:41.for the atrocities they have committed during this were --

:23:42. > :23:46.Houthies but with all due respect to the Government and to some of those

:23:47. > :23:53.on my benches, it is possible to agree with the principles will also

:23:54. > :24:04.disagreeing profoundly. Especially in the way this has been enforced,

:24:05. > :24:15.and with the abject failure of the British government to bring the war

:24:16. > :24:19.to an end. I will move... If members will give me a moment I have ten

:24:20. > :24:28.minutes and I will be going into details. Let me talk about the war

:24:29. > :24:33.crimes on both sides and on these bench as we have said many times

:24:34. > :24:36.just as the UN has that all leading human rights groups and a number of

:24:37. > :24:41.select committees of this house that the only way to ensure the

:24:42. > :24:48.comprehensive, thorough and impartial investigation of those

:24:49. > :24:51.alleged crimes is to commission and independent enquiry. The Government

:24:52. > :24:55.has been consistent to the call and they have said the Saudi led

:24:56. > :24:59.coalition must be left to investigate themselves. Let's see

:25:00. > :25:05.how that is going Shall We. In October revealed that this dispatch

:25:06. > :25:11.box that the 3000 documented air strikes, but to the end of August

:25:12. > :25:20.2016, the coalition's joint incident assessment team has issued report on

:25:21. > :25:24.just nine. A pathetic 0.002%. How many more reports have been

:25:25. > :25:31.completed since then? Madam Deputy Speaker, they have completed just

:25:32. > :25:37.for. -- four. Of those 13 investigations which were use the

:25:38. > :25:41.word unreservedly, there are only three where culpability has been

:25:42. > :25:47.found on the coalition. On the other ten cases including 241 civilian

:25:48. > :25:53.deaths and the bombing of four features, three medical facilities,

:25:54. > :25:56.one wedding, one food market, one cattle market, they have found,

:25:57. > :25:59.surprise surprise at the coalition has done nothing wrong. This is the

:26:00. > :26:04.investigatory body into which the Government has put all of its faith

:26:05. > :26:09.to ensure that the coalition is not violating international law. Let us

:26:10. > :26:16.look at the man who is in charge. Colonel Mansell Al Mansoor, or as he

:26:17. > :26:21.is known by some in Bahrain, the butcher. In 2011 with a popular

:26:22. > :26:25.uprising in Bahrain brutally suppressed and martial law being put

:26:26. > :26:31.into place, Colonel Al Mansoor was the military lawyer who presided

:26:32. > :26:36.over the kangaroo court which was to jail and execute the protest the

:26:37. > :26:40.activists, the activists, the opposition politicians, the

:26:41. > :26:43.teachers, the religious clerics, the human rights campaigners, in fact

:26:44. > :26:48.anyone seen as a threat to the Bahrain regime. Hundreds were jailed

:26:49. > :26:53.or sent to death under his orders and yet this is the man to him the

:26:54. > :26:58.Government had put all of its faith to investigate alleged war

:26:59. > :27:06.The Government is either naive, or negligent. But either way, this is

:27:07. > :27:12.not good enough. I thought it telling, Mr Speaker,

:27:13. > :27:17.when the minister said at the Saudi collision on Tuesday: It is having

:27:18. > :27:21.to provide reports when it makes mistakes, and has never done that

:27:22. > :27:27.before. It has no experience of even writing reports. That much is

:27:28. > :27:33.obvious, given it produced 13 reports in eight months but what is

:27:34. > :27:42.more telling is the implication that the roll of the situation is to

:27:43. > :27:48.identify mistakes. So, contrary... The honourable gentlemen shouts but

:27:49. > :27:52.what he said on Tuesday and I'm quoting him, it is videoing to

:27:53. > :27:58.provide reports when it has made mistakes. So if it is to identify

:27:59. > :28:02.mistakes, the situation is not investigating whether international

:28:03. > :28:07.law is breached but it has been taking on trust. Tall is doing is

:28:08. > :28:13.looking at a handful of high-profile incidents and in one or two cases,

:28:14. > :28:21.saying a mistake has been made. This is not good enough.

:28:22. > :28:25.The honourable gentlemen is not doing his cause any good. It is not

:28:26. > :28:30.good enough as an investigation or good enough as the basis for

:28:31. > :28:37.confidence that our arms laws are not being breached for it to be

:28:38. > :28:42.investigated by Mansour and to be investigated in the way it is. 13

:28:43. > :28:48.reports in eight months is not good enough. It is not good enough. Let

:28:49. > :28:54.me turn to the role that Britain must play in bringing an end to the

:28:55. > :29:00.conflict. I go back to what the minister said on Tuesday: The House

:29:01. > :29:03.may remember I asked why the UK had not presented its resolution to the

:29:04. > :29:08.Security Council, the minister explained: We will not get a

:29:09. > :29:13.Security Council resolution passed until we get the cessation of

:29:14. > :29:19.hostilities in place. If that is the case, Mr Deputy Speaker, why does

:29:20. > :29:23.clause one of the UK's draft resolution demand an immediate

:29:24. > :29:29.cessation of hostilities? Why would the first line of the resolution

:29:30. > :29:34.demand something already in place? In October, the UK's ambassador to

:29:35. > :29:39.the UN said: We have decided to put forward a draft Security Council

:29:40. > :29:43.resolution on Yemen, calling for cessation of has tillities and a

:29:44. > :29:48.resumption of the political process. In other words, the resolution which

:29:49. > :29:58.was designed to be the driving force behind a ceasefire and peace talks.

:29:59. > :30:04.Just as it was with resolution 1860 on Gaza, on 2174 on Libya, as it was

:30:05. > :30:08.on resolution 2254 on Syria. For the minister to claim we must have a

:30:09. > :30:13.ceasefire before the resolution make no, sir sense. So what is the

:30:14. > :30:17.explanation for the delay? I give way to the honourable gentlemen.

:30:18. > :30:22.I don't know where to start but to begin by saying when a draft

:30:23. > :30:29.resolution is put together, the reason why we don't air it in public

:30:30. > :30:34.is the details may change. So she needs to hold on until the UN

:30:35. > :30:41.resolution comes about and we then debate that I pose the question, has

:30:42. > :30:47.she read the UN Security Council resolution 2216? The reason I ask is

:30:48. > :30:54.that it calls for the same thing. She is asking for a ceasefire but it

:30:55. > :30:59.is inherent in the UN Security Council resolution 2216. I am very

:31:00. > :31:04.interested to hear what he says and will listen to a care what he says,

:31:05. > :31:08.and interested to hear, as I know that the Government says on many

:31:09. > :31:13.occasions that the Saudi led intervention in Yemen is something

:31:14. > :31:17.which is UN-backed and that they rely on the same resolution. I would

:31:18. > :31:24.be interested to hear where that is in the revolution and how it is able

:31:25. > :31:32.to be claimed that Saudi intervention in Yemen is...

:31:33. > :31:40.ALL SPEAK AT ONCE, would my honourable friend

:31:41. > :31:46.give way? I don't think there is a huge gap between what the two

:31:47. > :31:51.frontbenchers is a saying. It was common knowledge what was in the

:31:52. > :31:55.draft resolution. Every member of the Security Council spoke if favour

:31:56. > :31:59.of the ceasefire. Given everyone knows what is in the resolution,

:32:00. > :32:05.there is no reason why this cannot be tabled.

:32:06. > :32:09.I agree. For 50 days we have known what is in this draft resolution and

:32:10. > :32:14.we wait and wait for the British to put the resolution on the table.

:32:15. > :32:20.There is support for it. It has a number of elements in it. I wish to

:32:21. > :32:25.explain perhaps the reasons why the British are not putting it on the

:32:26. > :32:34.table. I will take interventions as necessary if the minister wishes to

:32:35. > :32:38.explain. I do ask her to perhaps join in with the spirit of the

:32:39. > :32:43.debate to look at the positives what we can do. She is focussing deeply

:32:44. > :32:47.on a draft resolution she has got, which I promise you, having been

:32:48. > :32:53.involved in the Riyadh talks in December, it is now out of date. I

:32:54. > :32:58.will go into detail but if she devotes more minutes to this, it is

:32:59. > :33:04.superfluous to the good debate we have had in the chamber.

:33:05. > :33:10.Can I remind there is another debate to follow, so there are not many

:33:11. > :33:16.more minutes remaining, only about 1.5 minutes remaining.

:33:17. > :33:20.I will go through the speech. The truth is that Saudi Arabia does not

:33:21. > :33:27.want this resolution to be presented. When asked about the UK's

:33:28. > :33:33.draft resolution in November by an Arab newspaper it was said that

:33:34. > :33:35.there was a joint agreement with Britain concerning the draft

:33:36. > :33:41.resolution, and whether there is a need for it or not, the newspaper

:33:42. > :33:47.went on to say that the Saudi ambassador said that the UK draft

:33:48. > :33:52.resolution includes: Unnecessary text in addition to wrong timing.

:33:53. > :33:57.There it is. Saudi Arabia does not sit on the UN Security Council but

:33:58. > :34:04.has been able to veto the UK's draft resolution without so much of a

:34:05. > :34:10.discussion. Why? Is it clause 4 that cause for full and transparent

:34:11. > :34:14.investigation of war crimes? Or is it clause 5 that calls on sides to

:34:15. > :34:22.negotiate a political solution on the basis of a UN roadmap given that

:34:23. > :34:27.President Hadi described the roadmaps a betrayal of the blood of

:34:28. > :34:33.the martyrs, or is it that just likes a areaed and Syria, Saudi

:34:34. > :34:38.Arabia sees no valuable in agreeing the ceasefire when it believes that

:34:39. > :34:42.the rebellion can be crushed, no matter the civil Ouwejan casualties,

:34:43. > :34:46.the humanitarian cost and because no matter what they do, they know this

:34:47. > :34:51.Tory Government will remain on their side. Mr Speaker, the Foreign

:34:52. > :34:57.Secretary was right last month to call Yemen a proxy war. He was right

:34:58. > :35:05.to criticise Saudi Arabia's puppet earring. While I am happy to applaud

:35:06. > :35:07.his a honesty, it is just his hypocrisy, all the more

:35:08. > :35:12.disappointing. If he knows what Saudi Arabia are doing in Yemen, he

:35:13. > :35:20.should follow the American lead to stop selling arms. If he is worried

:35:21. > :35:23.about the scale of casualties, there should be a UN-led investigation to

:35:24. > :35:31.see if the international laws are broken. And if he would like to see

:35:32. > :35:38.an end to the conflict and get the yellow yen children the aid that

:35:39. > :35:43.they need, have the guts to stand up to Saudi Arabia and stop the

:35:44. > :35:48.delaying tactics and do the decent thing, present the draft UN

:35:49. > :35:53.resolution, end the conflict, demand an independent investigation of war

:35:54. > :35:58.crimes and send a signal of intent to the Saudis today by supporting

:35:59. > :36:02.the back bench motion. Thank you very much. I'm saddened to hear the

:36:03. > :36:07.comments by the frontbench. I'm not sure that they are supported by

:36:08. > :36:12.those that sit behind her. I will say after the final statement, that

:36:13. > :36:18.it was shameful to say that Saudi Arabia is not wanting a ceasefire in

:36:19. > :36:24.the same way that Assad doesn't want a ceasefire in Syria is shameleful

:36:25. > :36:29.and show as miss under standing of what is happening. I will

:36:30. > :36:34.congratulate my honourable friend, we have known each other a long time

:36:35. > :36:40.since the days of being involved in student politics and the honourable

:36:41. > :36:44.member for Liverpool west Derby for securing the debate which has been

:36:45. > :36:49.reflected in the majority of speeches, showing a sense of a

:36:50. > :36:54.growing understanding and expertise. Without inis thing anybody, I would

:36:55. > :36:59.say that we have moved on from the Thursday afternoon. Armchair

:37:00. > :37:03.generals that look at things through a particular prism to understand

:37:04. > :37:08.that this is a deeply complicated issue and conflict and the solutions

:37:09. > :37:14.are complicated as well. Now, the starting with the conflict

:37:15. > :37:22.and the causes of conflict, which many have touched on. In 2014, the

:37:23. > :37:30.Huthi forces and those loyal around the capital that forced out the

:37:31. > :37:34.legitimate government have attacked Saudi Arabia, shelled border

:37:35. > :37:39.villages and killed Saudi civilians as well. There was a military

:37:40. > :37:45.occupation to restore the government to deter aggression that otherwise

:37:46. > :37:54.would have been likely to reach the port of Aidan and defend the Saudi

:37:55. > :38:00.border. In 2015, the UN security rose luges condemned the Houthi

:38:01. > :38:04.actions. Paragraph 5 called for a cessation of violence. In this

:38:05. > :38:09.context, the UK support's the coalition's efforts. UK diplomatic

:38:10. > :38:15.efforts also have played an important role. Government believes

:38:16. > :38:18.a political settlement is the only way to find lasting peace in creme

:38:19. > :38:23.yen. We have about the at the forefront of the effort to make

:38:24. > :38:29.progress towards this goal. In July last year, here in London we brought

:38:30. > :38:33.together the foreign ministers of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab

:38:34. > :38:37.Emirates, the US Secretary of State, to show support for the role of the

:38:38. > :38:43.UN in mediating a solution to the crisis. This, I will give way at the

:38:44. > :38:50.end but I'm under pressure from the deputy speaker. This informal group

:38:51. > :38:55.of key players is known as the quad and meetings expanded to include the

:38:56. > :39:01.UN Special Envoy and other represents from other Gulf countries

:39:02. > :39:06.as well. I attend a meeting in Riyadh on the 18th of December, to

:39:07. > :39:10.engage in the process to put the needs of the Yemeni people first. We

:39:11. > :39:16.are to continue to engage with the parties throughout the region to

:39:17. > :39:19.support peace. I have spoken to President Hadi to emphasise the

:39:20. > :39:26.needs to find a way forward in the political process. We had

:39:27. > :39:33.transition, and there will be a takeover from John Cary, this person

:39:34. > :39:39.is familiar with the area. I will give way at the end. I must pay

:39:40. > :39:44.tribute and comment on the other contributions made. The honourable

:39:45. > :39:52.gentlemen paid tribute to the humanitarian work. My Right

:39:53. > :39:58.Honourable friend, the member for Penrith and the Border, in his

:39:59. > :40:02.place, has been engaged on this. It is well recognised across the floor

:40:03. > :40:07.of the work Britain does and marks our place on the Security Council in

:40:08. > :40:11.the role we play in this particular conflict. He touched on the region.

:40:12. > :40:16.I will not give way. I am under pressure. I wish there was more

:40:17. > :40:21.time. If there is time I would be delighted to give way. He touched on

:40:22. > :40:25.the history of the region but it is worth underlying that there are

:40:26. > :40:33.complex divisions in the country. It is not just simple those sporting

:40:34. > :40:41.Hadi and the hathis. There has been a power struggle since the

:40:42. > :40:44.unification in 1990. There are tribes, militants, elites, group,

:40:45. > :40:48.terrorist organisations which leads to instability on a grand scale.

:40:49. > :40:53.Loyalties are not firm. They move and come and go along with the winds

:40:54. > :40:57.as well. That is the backdrop to which we are dealing with this

:40:58. > :41:02.matter. He asked a key question as to when we will join calls for an

:41:03. > :41:06.independent inquiry, which we have said we would support, I will make

:41:07. > :41:13.the argument for that case coming to fore. My Right Honourable friend for

:41:14. > :41:18.the East Bedfordshire gave a powerful speech to reflect his grabs

:41:19. > :41:24.of what is going on there. Paying tribute to Stephen O'Brien and the

:41:25. > :41:28.whole House will join him in doing that at the United Nations for

:41:29. > :41:32.exposing what is happening and what more work must be done. He also

:41:33. > :41:37.spoke about the visit, which I thought remarkable. I was pleased to

:41:38. > :41:42.be involved of the Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister. Have we ever heard

:41:43. > :41:47.of a Foreign Minister from the Gulf nations coming to the House, meeting

:41:48. > :41:54.Parliamentarians and answering each question as best he could. I hope

:41:55. > :42:00.that continues. He made it clear why would we want to bomb farms and

:42:01. > :42:06.schools in yep yen? That places into context that these are two countries

:42:07. > :42:10.with a deep history with each other. No long-term interest in Saudi

:42:11. > :42:14.Arabia causing damage right aRoss the piece to yell yen in the way

:42:15. > :42:18.some of the frontbench described. It is not in their interest as the

:42:19. > :42:23.international condemnation that brings about. He also says that yes,

:42:24. > :42:26.he that Saudi Arabia is slow in providing the reporting that

:42:27. > :42:33.everybody in this House has been calling for. Absolutely, he admits

:42:34. > :42:39.that. He said that he is willing to ask for help, can we help him

:42:40. > :42:44.provide that? This is very much a reserved country, it is unused to

:42:45. > :42:51.the limelight it is now adapting to live in. It is unused to sustained

:42:52. > :42:56.warfare that it is now participating in and unused to providing the

:42:57. > :43:02.reporting and the scrutiny required when sustained warfare takes place

:43:03. > :43:05.in the same way we have had to learn the same mechanisms to provide that

:43:06. > :43:12.transparency that is now expected on the battle field.

:43:13. > :43:16.On the issue of transparency that they should learn from us but can

:43:17. > :43:20.the minister explain why when he said they had immediately decided to

:43:21. > :43:25.correct the mistakes that they had given to this house, both in debates

:43:26. > :43:29.and parliamentary questions, he has just confirmed to me at 11 minutes

:43:30. > :43:34.past three that in fact the Foreign Secretary knew it on the 20th of

:43:35. > :43:38.June, why did it take a month to come with this information? The

:43:39. > :43:48.Defence Secretary made a point about that. He knows me and I've done my

:43:49. > :43:51.best to be as transparent as possible and any members of the

:43:52. > :43:54.opposition who have been ministers and government know we have one of

:43:55. > :43:59.the best civil service in the world dealing with thousands and thousands

:44:00. > :44:06.of written answers. I will finish my point. Occasionally mistakes are

:44:07. > :44:11.made, we put our hands up and say they have been made. I'm sorry there

:44:12. > :44:16.was a delay, as soon as we realised one error was made with ended an

:44:17. > :44:20.investigation to see and there were out of nearly 100 PMQ 's, there was

:44:21. > :44:27.one clerical error which continued on. There was a handful and we kept

:44:28. > :44:31.six out of almost a hundred whether wording was incorrect. We did an

:44:32. > :44:36.investigation which took some time. I tell the House now which I did

:44:37. > :44:40.before, I apologise for that. There is no conspiracy here, it is an

:44:41. > :44:48.error and it is on my shoulders that I take it and I apologise to the

:44:49. > :44:52.House. I will now move on. I want to talk about the honourable Member for

:44:53. > :44:58.Leicester EC made important points about this being a forgotten war and

:44:59. > :45:04.today's debate has made sure we have not forgotten about it. He talks

:45:05. > :45:08.about a ceasefire and this gives me license to talk about the security

:45:09. > :45:13.resolution which is in the process of being written. It is working on

:45:14. > :45:17.the basis of the road map discussed on the 19th of December and it

:45:18. > :45:22.includes seven steps and when I mention these, I will elaborate a

:45:23. > :45:28.little, we can see how complicated it is to get a consensus on the

:45:29. > :45:31.ground for these steps. There are security steps for the ritual of

:45:32. > :45:37.equipment, there are a crude roles and appointments for who will run a

:45:38. > :45:41.transition process. There are consultations in accordance with the

:45:42. > :45:47.GCC negotiations and the partnership for peace agreement and the UN

:45:48. > :45:51.security resolution to 216 and additional withdrawals and the

:45:52. > :45:55.signing of an agreement itself, and a potential donor conference which

:45:56. > :46:02.we need a commitment for and finally leading up to electoral reform. That

:46:03. > :46:06.is complicated business. That is why a UN security Council resolution

:46:07. > :46:15.will not be a draft form. That one is out of date. I will not give way.

:46:16. > :46:28.My honourable friend for Beckenham... Points of order. In

:46:29. > :46:33.your absence there has been a bit of backwards and forwards between the

:46:34. > :46:37.front benches, I gave way on several occasions. And he is now making it

:46:38. > :46:45.clear that he will not allow me to intervene the tour and... Order. Are

:46:46. > :46:52.you sitting down. Let's be clear about this. Either side, it is up to

:46:53. > :46:58.the Minister or the Shadow Minister to give way, that is the rules. The

:46:59. > :47:02.other points, I know this debate was meant to finish at 330 and we are

:47:03. > :47:06.running over, if the minister does not give way it is his choice, there

:47:07. > :47:11.is no need to get uptight about it, that is life. I'm grateful for your

:47:12. > :47:18.guidance and I understand the remaining two minutes... This is not

:47:19. > :47:23.a continuation I hope. Let's get to the end of the debate. There are

:47:24. > :47:26.people who want to move on. I'm looking after all members of the

:47:27. > :47:31.House and all members who wish to speak in the next debate, we weren't

:47:32. > :47:41.to do so if we run over. Please let's get to the end. I'm sorry I

:47:42. > :47:48.finished. Mr Deputy Speaker, just to continue in the last two minutes

:47:49. > :47:53.that I have, I want to make the point that my honourable friend from

:47:54. > :47:57.Beckenham made on Tuesday. The fundamental backdrop to this is in

:47:58. > :48:00.essence a Cold War that has existed between the Sunni and Shi'ite

:48:01. > :48:06.leadership, and we need to solve that. We need to move forward from

:48:07. > :48:09.that because there is extra technically and theologically no

:48:10. > :48:13.doctrinal difference between the two faiths themselves, they both believe

:48:14. > :48:20.in the centrality of the Prophet Muhammad and it all goes down to the

:48:21. > :48:23.difference in succession. Was it Ali the son-in-law and cousin was it

:48:24. > :48:31.Abubakar the father-in-law and since then there have been tensions in

:48:32. > :48:34.Islamic history and peace and prosperity might improve if the two

:48:35. > :48:38.faiths could reconcile their political differences. That is at

:48:39. > :48:44.the core of what a lot of challenges are that to find in the Middle East.

:48:45. > :48:52.Time prevents me Mr Deputy Speaker from being able to respond to other

:48:53. > :49:00.contributions although I would do my best, but I will enter by

:49:01. > :49:04.clarifying... I will give way unless I can answer the question as I'm

:49:05. > :49:13.about to which is when we feel it would be inappropriate to not have