19/01/2017

:00:00. > :00:00.raise the matter. The honourable gentleman has many qualities, one of

:00:00. > :00:26.which is his purse I beg to move the motion that stands

:00:27. > :00:32.in my name and the names of several other members on the order paper. I

:00:33. > :00:35.start by thanking my fellow members of the backbench business committee

:00:36. > :00:42.for allowing me to briefly stand down from the committee to make the

:00:43. > :00:45.application for this debate. And no further thank them for agreeing the

:00:46. > :00:48.debate would take place today. I should also be clear I am the

:00:49. > :00:56.current chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on Kashmir. Can

:00:57. > :01:03.I thank all those groups who have campaigned so steadfastly on this

:01:04. > :01:07.issue for so many years, particularly the Kashmir

:01:08. > :01:18.self-determination movement, working tirelessly to keep up the profile of

:01:19. > :01:24.the issue of Kashmir with MPs. Also members from the British Muslim

:01:25. > :01:33.Women's Network, the Kashmir liberation Council, and the Kashmir

:01:34. > :01:37.Council for human rights. I will give way. I am grateful, and I

:01:38. > :01:46.congratulate him on securing the debate. Can I ask him to put on

:01:47. > :01:52.record thanks to all those ordinarily Kashmiris in this country

:01:53. > :01:59.and back in Kashmir who fight time and again to get this high up on the

:02:00. > :02:04.agenda so we take action. I am grateful to him for raising that,

:02:05. > :02:08.and I put that on the record. Let me explain why this motion is being

:02:09. > :02:12.brought before the House today. Essentially it is because this

:02:13. > :02:21.matter really matters to my thousands of constituents who are of

:02:22. > :02:26.Pakistani and Kashmiri Heritage. It matters to the constituents of many

:02:27. > :02:30.members in the House today. Many of my constituents have family in

:02:31. > :02:37.Kashmir, and in some cases they have lost loved ones or seen loved ones

:02:38. > :02:41.scarred for life as a result of violence. For those not familiar

:02:42. > :02:45.with Kashmir, it is a territory running across the border between

:02:46. > :02:50.Pakistan and India. The root cause of the conflict can be traced back

:02:51. > :02:55.to 1947, when the colony of India was granted independence by Britain

:02:56. > :03:02.and was partitioned into two two separate entities, India and

:03:03. > :03:10.Pakistan. There was a predominantly Muslim population but the Hindu

:03:11. > :03:14.leader. The area has a long and complex history and it is not enough

:03:15. > :03:19.time to go into all that history today, but suffice to say, the

:03:20. > :03:27.argument over which nation would incorporate the state led to the

:03:28. > :03:33.first India Pakistan war in 1947 - 48. There have been further upsurges

:03:34. > :03:41.in the conflict since then and they are both known nuclear power is. To

:03:42. > :03:47.complicate matters further, -- there are now nuclear powers. I am pleased

:03:48. > :03:50.to see the Minister for Southeast Asia in his possession, and I am

:03:51. > :03:57.grateful to him for taking the time to meet with members of the

:03:58. > :04:00.all-party group on Kashmir recently. I know he will be aware that it is

:04:01. > :04:04.the fact Britain was responsible for the partition which leads many in

:04:05. > :04:08.the Kashmiri community to believe this country could and should be

:04:09. > :04:15.doing more to try to help resolve this matter. The fact that the

:04:16. > :04:18.petition was 70 years ago demonstrates the intransigence of

:04:19. > :04:24.this problem, and I am under no illusion that they are easy

:04:25. > :04:29.solutions. There are two areas I wish to cover today. Firstly the

:04:30. > :04:31.recent increase in violence in human rights abuses, and secondly the

:04:32. > :04:36.longer-term issue of trying to resolve this long-running conflict.

:04:37. > :04:43.The most recent increase in violence began last year, when on the 8th of

:04:44. > :04:49.July 22-year-old -- a 22-year-old was killed by the security forces.

:04:50. > :04:57.Tens of thousands attended his funeral. Clashes broke out at it,

:04:58. > :04:59.between security forces and protestors. Security forces fired

:05:00. > :05:05.live ammunition into the crowd, killing several people, and a police

:05:06. > :05:12.officer was also killed. Since then, the authorities have declared

:05:13. > :05:16.curfews and close down mobile phone services and media outlets.

:05:17. > :05:23.Attendance at mosques and adherence to religious practices has been

:05:24. > :05:26.restricted. Protestors have organised a series of general

:05:27. > :05:29.strikes and there have been regular public rallies. Schools, colleges

:05:30. > :05:40.and universities have also been closed. The economy has been badly

:05:41. > :05:46.hit. Funerals have also been hit by protests. Scores of Kashmiris have

:05:47. > :05:52.been killed. Many civilians have been injured. -- many thousands. I

:05:53. > :05:58.will give way. I thank him for securing this very important debate.

:05:59. > :06:04.He quite rightly points out that recent escalation in human rights

:06:05. > :06:09.violations, but will he accept that this is a longer term problem and

:06:10. > :06:18.human rights violations have happened for decades? I am grateful

:06:19. > :06:23.to the honourable member for raising this. As I said earlier, there is a

:06:24. > :06:29.long and complex history to this. As the honourable member says, there

:06:30. > :06:35.have been many upsurges in violence, and as he will be aware, there have

:06:36. > :06:44.been many human rights abuses which have been catalogued and recorded

:06:45. > :06:49.over the years. I will give way. Would he agree that it is imperative

:06:50. > :06:54.that an international investigation into those human rights abuses is

:06:55. > :06:59.carried out as soon as possible? Yes, I do agree. It is something I

:07:00. > :07:09.will mention briefly later in my speech. The use of pellet guns has

:07:10. > :07:14.left thousands of people, including children, injured and in many cases

:07:15. > :07:19.blind. Armed militants have increased their attacks on the

:07:20. > :07:26.security forces. In September 2016, an attack on an army base killed 19

:07:27. > :07:38.soldiers, the Army's worst loss of life for more than a decade. There

:07:39. > :07:48.has been a flaring up of tension. This has led to significant military

:07:49. > :07:51.casualties. Both sides have ramped up the hostile rhetoric. I know the

:07:52. > :07:57.government are concerned about any allegation of human rights abuses.

:07:58. > :08:02.Ministers have said so many times in answers to both oral and written

:08:03. > :08:08.questions, but I do ask the Minister to condemn these attacks and the use

:08:09. > :08:11.of pellet guns. The fundamental human rights enshrined in the Indian

:08:12. > :08:16.constitution must be adhered to. There must be an end to the use of

:08:17. > :08:22.pellet guns on innocent civilians. The UNHCR and other interested

:08:23. > :08:32.parties must be allowed free and complete access to allow them to

:08:33. > :08:36.make an objective assessment. Let me now turn to the role of the United

:08:37. > :08:41.Nations in securing a long-term settlement. After 70 years of

:08:42. > :08:45.inaction since the original UN resolutions were passed, requiring

:08:46. > :08:52.this conflict to be resolved by peaceful democratic means, it is

:08:53. > :08:55.easy to see why so many in the Kashmiri community think the United

:08:56. > :08:59.Nations has lost interest in their problem. I have often said this

:09:00. > :09:04.dispute is all too frequently ignored by the media. It always

:09:05. > :09:09.seems there is some other conflict elsewhere in the world which grabs

:09:10. > :09:13.the headlines. As a member of the United Nations, I know the United

:09:14. > :09:18.Kingdom supports all UN bodies and wants to help them fulfil their

:09:19. > :09:23.mandate. But in the case of Kashmir, there has surely been feeling for

:09:24. > :09:28.those resolutions to have gone unfulfilled for so long.

:09:29. > :09:36.I PC at the government has took treader careful path. We wish to be

:09:37. > :09:40.friends with both India and Pakistan. But a candid and true

:09:41. > :09:45.friend is one who sometimes says things the other friend may find

:09:46. > :09:51.unpalatable. I will give way. I'm very grateful. I support his motion.

:09:52. > :09:55.Surely, it's not a question of supporting the Indian or Pakistan

:09:56. > :10:00.government, it's about supporting the people of Kashmir. Just as he

:10:01. > :10:05.and I campaigned for years for a referendum to decide whether our

:10:06. > :10:10.country should be ruled by the European Union are not, surely the

:10:11. > :10:17.people of Kashmir should have the same freedom to decide how they are

:10:18. > :10:22.governed. There is absolutely right. I am about to mention that historic

:10:23. > :10:32.decision that this country took last year. I will give way before I

:10:33. > :10:35.proceed. I quite concur with the honourable member for Shipley in

:10:36. > :10:39.saying this is an issue about Kashmir, but this is not just about

:10:40. > :10:45.India and Pakistan, but also China. We have to work with all of them to

:10:46. > :10:52.make sure civil rights and human rights of the Kashmiri people are

:10:53. > :10:56.important in this debate. I am grateful to him for that

:10:57. > :11:03.intervention. He's absolutely right, that this is a matter which involves

:11:04. > :11:11.both nations, and it is crucially about the rights of the Kashmiri

:11:12. > :11:16.people. I wish to make it clear that, in this case, we want both

:11:17. > :11:20.India and Pakistan to know that we want to help them find a permanent

:11:21. > :11:26.and peaceful solution to this conflict. Of course, this country

:11:27. > :11:31.cannot impose its leadership, but I believe we can do more to bring the

:11:32. > :11:35.parties closer together. I wish to make it clear that I do not see this

:11:36. > :11:40.issue as being about taking sides and saying that if you had a friend

:11:41. > :11:45.of Kashmir, you're not a friend of India. This problem must be resolved

:11:46. > :11:50.by peaceful means. I want to see the people of Kashmir being given the

:11:51. > :11:55.right to decide their own future, the right to self-determination, a

:11:56. > :12:02.so historically exercised by the people of this country on the 23rd

:12:03. > :12:05.of June last year, when the majority voted to leave the European Union.

:12:06. > :12:09.No one believes there is an easy answer, but anything has to be

:12:10. > :12:16.better than having a military controlled line of partition between

:12:17. > :12:19.two neighbouring countries. I suspect there will always be rivalry

:12:20. > :12:26.between India and Pakistan, but that rivalry should be contained to the

:12:27. > :12:31.field of sport. In conclusion, when the Minister responds to this

:12:32. > :12:35.debate, I would ask my honourable friend not only to set out what the

:12:36. > :12:43.government position is on Kashmir, but also what more this country

:12:44. > :12:47.could do... Yes, I will give way one more time. He has been extremely

:12:48. > :12:52.generous with his time on this issue. Just before he concludes,

:12:53. > :12:55.does he agree that, while I agree with him that we need a long-term

:12:56. > :13:00.solution that is in the hands of the Kashmiri people, there is that

:13:01. > :13:03.important step beforehand, which is where the Foreign Office can play an

:13:04. > :13:07.active role, in getting both sides round the table to negotiate a

:13:08. > :13:14.peace, a stability, a calming of that situation, so that people,

:13:15. > :13:18.children's lives are not lost in the meantime. Let's get that summit

:13:19. > :13:23.going, to have peace, and then think of a longer term solution. I

:13:24. > :13:27.entirely agree and perhaps I should have finished my sentence, because

:13:28. > :13:33.that was exactly what I was saying. Because what I was saying is that,

:13:34. > :13:37.when Minister responds to this debate, I will ask my honourable

:13:38. > :13:41.friend not all to set out what the government position is on Kashmir,

:13:42. > :13:46.but also what more this country could do, either through the United

:13:47. > :13:50.Nations, or working directly with India and Pakistan to bring these

:13:51. > :13:56.two nations together to find a lasting and peaceful solution to

:13:57. > :14:07.this conflict. Mr Deputy Speaker, I commend the motion to the House. The

:14:08. > :14:13.question is as on the order paper. I wish to declare that I am of

:14:14. > :14:17.Kashmiri heritage and I am privileged to be the first member of

:14:18. > :14:23.Parliament in this place of Kashmiri heritage. I also have a significant

:14:24. > :14:27.Kashmiri constituency, which has a significant interest in this issue,

:14:28. > :14:31.and back many other members in this place, who will have their

:14:32. > :14:38.constituents with an interest. This issue is, of course, about Kashmir,

:14:39. > :14:42.the key issue of Kashmiri geography and the issue of Kashmiri

:14:43. > :14:49.self-determination. Many people are very concerned about that. But for

:14:50. > :14:53.me, this issue is about violations of Kashmiri people and the human

:14:54. > :14:59.rights and civil liberties. That is the most important thing. Also the

:15:00. > :15:10.violation of the Geneva Convention by the Indian armed forces. This

:15:11. > :15:14.issue today is about Kashmir. People say Kashmiri people are under

:15:15. > :15:20.violation of human rights abuses. But this has gone on for at least

:15:21. > :15:27.six decades, when the Indian forces unlawfully invaded Kashmir in 1948,

:15:28. > :15:36.when it was an independent state. It also has the look at an issue of the

:15:37. > :15:42.fact that in 1953 and 1954, there was a resolution presented to the

:15:43. > :15:45.United Nations by the then Prime Minister, to allow the Kashmiri

:15:46. > :15:49.people the right to self-determination. And to date, to

:15:50. > :15:55.the shame of the United Nations, those resolutions haven't found

:15:56. > :16:02.their way to the General Assembly of the United Nations. Kashmiri people

:16:03. > :16:07.are still wondering whether their plight is worth the heating in the

:16:08. > :16:12.United Nations by the General Assembly. And it's very significant.

:16:13. > :16:18.I know there are numerous members who wish to speak, so I will try to

:16:19. > :16:22.be brief. In this house today, I want to recognise the work of the

:16:23. > :16:29.shadow Foreign Office team, particularly the Minister on the

:16:30. > :16:33.front bench from the shadow team, who is responsible for south-east

:16:34. > :16:38.Asia and also the shadow Secretary of State, who have made significant

:16:39. > :16:44.policy issues for the party in terms of recognising the issue of human

:16:45. > :16:48.rights and civil liberties. To the extent that the shadow Secretary of

:16:49. > :16:56.State has also written to the Secretary of State on his visit to

:16:57. > :17:01.India, asking him to raise the issue of a second visit being made, about

:17:02. > :17:07.the issue of human rights and civil liberties in Kashmir, by the

:17:08. > :17:14.Secretary of State. I hope that on his return, the shadow Secretary of

:17:15. > :17:18.State will report to the house that he has actually raise those issues

:17:19. > :17:27.with the Indian government. Also, there is currently over half a

:17:28. > :17:31.million of the Indian troops in Kashmir. They are protected, the

:17:32. > :17:37.Indian troops are protected by the special armed Forces act of 1993,

:17:38. > :17:44.which allows them complete free range, and knows them to be able to

:17:45. > :17:50.abuse people, to be able to torture people. When people go missing,

:17:51. > :17:54.there is no accountability. And there is no' that can take them to

:17:55. > :18:03.account, hold them to account in India. So this is a clear violation

:18:04. > :18:06.of the genie that convention -- the Geneva Convention for any military

:18:07. > :18:10.to be able to do this. I am surprised that we do not read this

:18:11. > :18:16.and I hope the Minister takes notice of this and reasons it with the

:18:17. > :18:20.Indian government. I thank him for giving way and I congratulate the

:18:21. > :18:24.member who secured this debate. Does he agree with me that that is a

:18:25. > :18:29.particular concern about the use of pellet guns in Kashmir, and does he

:18:30. > :18:32.agree with me and Amnesty International that there should be a

:18:33. > :18:37.ban on the use of pellet guns, which are causing such serious injuries to

:18:38. > :18:47.so many people? I thank her for that. This is an issue will come in

:18:48. > :18:54.my speech, but at the moment, I agree with what she is saying. I am

:18:55. > :19:02.talking about the half a million soldiers in Kashmir, who currently

:19:03. > :19:07.have no control over how they behave, how they abuse the people.

:19:08. > :19:17.There are serious concerns in Kashmir, particularly in terms of

:19:18. > :19:20.the civilian population. We are concerned about when a woman leaves

:19:21. > :19:31.the house, whether she is a mother or daughter or wife, that she leaves

:19:32. > :19:34.the house, and not knowing what state should return in comic even if

:19:35. > :19:39.she returns. There are issues of gang rapes by the military. And

:19:40. > :19:46.absolutely atrocious act by any individual. I am sorry to interrupt

:19:47. > :19:51.such a passionate speech. One of the things I think the government failed

:19:52. > :19:57.to recognise is the passion and worry and fear that our

:19:58. > :20:01.constituents, or Jewish citizens of Kashmiri and non-Kashmiri

:20:02. > :20:04.extraction, feel about this issue. Would you agree that the Minister

:20:05. > :20:10.and government need to listen and start paying attention to the needs

:20:11. > :20:16.and demands of their citizens? She makes a very valid point,

:20:17. > :20:20.particularly in relation to the issue of abuse of women. We don't

:20:21. > :20:27.allow and accept this in any other country at all. And why should we

:20:28. > :20:35.allow this to go unchecked by the Indian forces, by the Indian Army,

:20:36. > :20:39.in India, in Kashmir. I find this absolutely absurd that the we should

:20:40. > :20:45.be making far stronger representation, and I would urge the

:20:46. > :20:49.Minister to do that. When a man goes out of the house, whether he is a

:20:50. > :20:52.father or husband or son, there is absolutely no guarantee he is going

:20:53. > :20:59.to come back and what state he will come back. What acts, we have seen

:21:00. > :21:06.beatings, we have seen videos on YouTube and Facebook. In those,

:21:07. > :21:14.people are summary eaten up in the streets, I held by military

:21:15. > :21:19.personnel and beaten literally to within an inch of their life. They

:21:20. > :21:23.are tortured, they are taken away, people go missing. In some

:21:24. > :21:29.instances, when they go missing, nobody comes back. That is a serious

:21:30. > :21:33.issue. Children in Kashmir have no stake in the normal community or

:21:34. > :21:38.society. We expect our children to have a proper education in normal

:21:39. > :21:44.society, but Kashmiri children don't have an ounce of that protection to

:21:45. > :21:48.be able to have that. Then they go out into the streets, as my

:21:49. > :21:52.honourable friend from Nottingham said earlier on, they are treated

:21:53. > :21:57.and greeted with pellets and suchlike. They have no problem

:21:58. > :22:03.education facilities, they have no health care, they have no real stake

:22:04. > :22:06.in the society they are part of, this is the sixth generation of

:22:07. > :22:11.Kashmiri people who are growing under the tyranny and they have no

:22:12. > :22:20.protection whatsoever. The issues I want to come to, it is an absolutely

:22:21. > :22:29.horrendous act by the military. Where they have specifically

:22:30. > :22:36.targeted, not just for of parts, but specifically aiming at upper parts

:22:37. > :22:43.of the body, the face, the eyes. Where is the number of people who

:22:44. > :22:47.have lost their eyesight? Those people are not even allowed medical

:22:48. > :22:53.treatment once they have done that, because you will know when a body is

:22:54. > :22:58.scanned, it is magnets that are used. And when those bullets are

:22:59. > :23:02.inside, the medical group will not use those cans on them, because

:23:03. > :23:06.Apple further assist the movement of those metallic pellets that is

:23:07. > :23:13.inside them, which would lead possibly to further injury, whether

:23:14. > :23:15.it is an airhead or eyes are upper body, including the heart arteries

:23:16. > :23:20.and everything else that goes along with that. So that would cause a

:23:21. > :23:24.significant issue for most people. These are the issues of the using of

:23:25. > :23:31.pellet guns. Also, when somebody is penetrated with these pellets, when

:23:32. > :23:34.they go through security barrier, it will be easy for people to be able

:23:35. > :23:40.to see when they are going through, to assess that that person has been

:23:41. > :23:45.involved in those sort of abuses. So the pool that person out and they

:23:46. > :23:49.are again held accountable, and that is torture of a community and the

:23:50. > :23:57.whole society. We have had a report on the buried evidence, unmarked

:23:58. > :24:02.mass graves, produced by the international people's Tribunal on

:24:03. > :24:07.human rights. Again, a human rights activist who has produced a whole

:24:08. > :24:13.report of significant numbers of mass graves, that she has found

:24:14. > :24:18.through her organisation. Unfortunately, not to note is taken

:24:19. > :24:22.by anybody. No notice is taken by any government, and particularly our

:24:23. > :24:25.government. We are, if this was to happen anywhere else, there would be

:24:26. > :24:33.a huge outcry and there would be people crying for international war

:24:34. > :24:38.crimes tribunal is to be held and to be dealt with. So I do see that is

:24:39. > :24:41.an urgent debate after this as well and there is a significant number of

:24:42. > :24:44.colleagues who wish to speak. I would like to conclude just purely

:24:45. > :24:52.on the basis of the fact that this is an issue of human rights,

:24:53. > :24:56.contravention of the human rights Convention and are likely to take

:24:57. > :24:59.notice of these three things. I'd like to see what he's going to do

:25:00. > :25:03.about it and how he will have an interaction with the Indian

:25:04. > :25:08.government, to hold them to account. If anyone wants to be a serious

:25:09. > :25:11.partner with United Kingdom, these are the responsibilities they must

:25:12. > :25:14.carry and these are the issues very important to my constituents and all

:25:15. > :25:16.others in this place, and to make sure that is considered an taken

:25:17. > :25:25.forward. To give everyone equal time, can we

:25:26. > :25:30.take up to eight minutes to make sure we all get a fair crack of the

:25:31. > :25:34.whip. I would like to congratulate my honourable friend for securing

:25:35. > :25:37.the debate and being a strong advocate for Kashmir and Kashmiris

:25:38. > :25:48.within the chamber. India and With over 40 million refugees

:25:49. > :25:56.crossing the new Pakistan India border for safety. A small piece of

:25:57. > :26:02.land today is an unstable home for 12 million Kashmiris. On the 24th of

:26:03. > :26:05.January 1949, the first group of United Nations military observers

:26:06. > :26:11.arrived to oversee a ceasefire between India and Pakistan. Almost

:26:12. > :26:14.70 years later, India and Pakistan have evolved but Kashmiris still a

:26:15. > :26:20.region beset by political disagreement, violence and human

:26:21. > :26:27.rights violations. -- Kashmir is stellar region. The conflict has

:26:28. > :26:31.left more than 47,000 people left, which also include 7000 police

:26:32. > :26:38.personnel. The death toll continues with India and Pakistan at an

:26:39. > :26:42.impasse, denoted in a House of Commons recess paper which states

:26:43. > :26:46.currently the two governments of India and Pakistan are engaged in a

:26:47. > :26:50.process of re-approach when. This is not the first such process but has

:26:51. > :26:55.given rise to optimism. That paper was written in 2004. India and

:26:56. > :27:02.Pakistan still have nowhere. Optimism has run dry, and bloodshed

:27:03. > :27:05.on bullets in Kashmir takeover. UN observations have taken place at

:27:06. > :27:09.various times since 1949 at considerable cost but to what

:27:10. > :27:18.effect? Resolutions have been passed, calling for a ceasefire is

:27:19. > :27:21.for security forces to be withdrawn and the opportunity for Kashmiris to

:27:22. > :27:29.determine their own future. The cornerstone of any civilised

:27:30. > :27:34.democracy. Give way. The UN clearly has a pivotal role in Kashmir, but

:27:35. > :27:37.does my honourable friend believe that the UN has a sufficient skills

:27:38. > :27:43.and resources and political will to do what we are expecting that to

:27:44. > :27:48.secure peace? He makes a very good point. Considerable skill, I would

:27:49. > :27:53.say yes, considerable resources, I would say yes. Political will, that

:27:54. > :27:57.is where the UN is falling down. 70 years have been lost and Kashmir

:27:58. > :28:01.pays the price was lost lives and livelihoods. Last year they saw an

:28:02. > :28:07.unprecedented level of violence with 68 civilians killed and more than

:28:08. > :28:12.9000 injured during months of violence, the bloodiest episode in

:28:13. > :28:14.Kashmir's recent history. The shame of the international community for

:28:15. > :28:19.failing to recognise the violence and lack of offered to support

:28:20. > :28:28.Kashmiri civilians is a bloody stain on all the history books. And

:28:29. > :28:35.impartial and international mission is crucial, with full free and

:28:36. > :28:36.complete access. The UN continued to receive reports of Indian forces

:28:37. > :28:50.using for administration, yet India has

:28:51. > :28:51.to investigate allegations of human to investigate allegations of human

:28:52. > :28:55.that not just India but also that not just India but also

:28:56. > :28:57.Pakistan have to allow UN access to Kashmir to evaluate the damage the

:28:58. > :29:03.conflict has caused before it becomes another footnote in

:29:04. > :29:12.Kashmir's history. The UN has had 70 years to help Kashmiris but instead

:29:13. > :29:22.has wilfully continued this line for too long. I ask the Minister, what

:29:23. > :29:28.pressure does the UK -- can the UK put on the UN, taken advantage of

:29:29. > :29:32.our privileged position on the security council? The UN have to

:29:33. > :29:39.show humility and backbone to their statements. No resolution nor

:29:40. > :29:44.conciliation can be given until there is acceptance of the light

:29:45. > :29:49.damage. We have a real role to play with the hand of friendship and

:29:50. > :29:56.partnership. Pakistan is one of our greatest recipients of aid funding

:29:57. > :29:59.in tackling terrorism, and last year the Prime Minister visited India to

:30:00. > :30:05.secure a substantial trade deal. What discussions took place on

:30:06. > :30:09.Kashmir during the recent trip, and could he update the House on his

:30:10. > :30:14.recent discussions with his counterparts in Pakistan and India?

:30:15. > :30:21.The Prime Minister of India said if any -- any dialogue requires an

:30:22. > :30:24.environment free from terrorism and violence. He is absolutely right.

:30:25. > :30:33.The recent escalation of violence creates terror when no authority is

:30:34. > :30:37.trusted, not even those in places meant to offer protection. Pallet

:30:38. > :30:40.forces are being used by security forces. The Indian government has

:30:41. > :30:46.advised the use of pellet guns should be rare and only in present

:30:47. > :30:48.circumstances, but the Central of the badge reserve police force

:30:49. > :30:53.continues to use them persistently. They cause life-threatening

:30:54. > :30:59.injuries, and blinding people, and so fat over 9000 people have been

:31:00. > :31:03.injured. By their nature, pellet guns are the antithesis of targeted

:31:04. > :31:09.position, they spray and main to a 6-foot circle, it is impossible to

:31:10. > :31:13.limit the number of casualties with a 6-foot fan of pellets. These are

:31:14. > :31:19.not precision weapons or defensive weapons. When used in open public

:31:20. > :31:24.places, they must constitute a human rights violation. Anyone and

:31:25. > :31:30.everyone within that 6-foot circle is a target with a pellet gun, even

:31:31. > :31:34.children sitting at home. A 12-year-old was in the courtyard of

:31:35. > :31:41.his home not protesting, but in his home when his eyes were hit by

:31:42. > :31:44.pellets. Both his eyes are injured, with little vision left. He is

:31:45. > :32:07.recovering in a hospital where the department is stating they are

:32:08. > :32:08.the demand is so high. Depressingly with surgeries

:32:09. > :32:10.forced to tweak the Prime Minister forced to tweak the Prime Minister

:32:11. > :32:12.be sent to help those with injuries. be sent to help those with injuries.

:32:13. > :32:16.-- tweet. Seemingly the best way to get help is to send each week to.

:32:17. > :32:29.This is how desperate the situation has come. -- at tweet. Does he agree

:32:30. > :32:34.that this weapon constitutes a crime when used in public places? The

:32:35. > :32:37.central reserve police force have refused to share the operating

:32:38. > :32:42.procedure for this lethal weapon. Can he put pressure on India to

:32:43. > :32:46.disclose their justification and perhaps the Indian authorities can

:32:47. > :32:51.share with us which other liberal democracy uses such a weapon on its

:32:52. > :32:57.own people? Can I also ask the Minister to share with the House

:32:58. > :33:00.what medical support is being provided to Kashmiri hospitals?

:33:01. > :33:05.These violations should be arguments enough for access the observations.

:33:06. > :33:17.Violence will not disappear by observation, -- violations will not

:33:18. > :33:21.disappear. This is not a regional issue. India and Pakistan both have

:33:22. > :33:25.nuclear weapons. The stakes are high. Pakistan is disputed to have

:33:26. > :33:31.the 11 strongest military in the world and is also ranked more

:33:32. > :33:35.frighteningly as the 14th most fragile country. This regional

:33:36. > :33:39.dispute is not so regional when two nuclear powers fail to resolve such

:33:40. > :33:45.a volatile dispute. It has the potential to threaten us all.

:33:46. > :33:48.Especially as the terror has taken a new violent form. The importance of

:33:49. > :33:54.access to books and education is key to building a strong community and

:33:55. > :33:57.for the first time schools and educators are no targets. Village

:33:58. > :34:00.schools are being targeted for destruction and these -- 24 have

:34:01. > :34:05.been burnt to the ground last year. I want to raise the issue of one

:34:06. > :34:12.school, if I can. One particular school was built in 1948. The

:34:13. > :34:16.principal rushed to the school as it was burning to the ground. He cried

:34:17. > :34:25.out that the school was like his home was being burned. This is no

:34:26. > :34:29.ordinary school, built in 1948 it held 3000 books. Schools on fire,

:34:30. > :34:37.teachers worrying for their lives, and books burned, the future is

:34:38. > :34:42.bleak. In conclusion it is in all of our interests that the crisis in

:34:43. > :34:46.Kashmir is recognised and the force of the international community

:34:47. > :34:58.supports the UN and all of our diplomatic relations are forced to

:34:59. > :35:02.finding a resolution for Kashmir. Through, -- through you, let me pass

:35:03. > :35:13.good wishes to the Speaker on his birthday. There was a long queue for

:35:14. > :35:20.people wishing him happy birthday, and I think it is important as well.

:35:21. > :35:25.2.5 years ago, this House last debated Kashmir. And this is only

:35:26. > :35:36.the second debate in nearly 20 years. I must declare that I am the

:35:37. > :35:45.chair of the British all-party parliamentary group, a person of

:35:46. > :35:51.Indian origin, born in India, studied there, and I came here. I do

:35:52. > :35:59.not know how many of you have visited Kashmir. I think in my own

:36:00. > :36:07.life, from my school days until now, I have visited Kashmir 14 times. So

:36:08. > :36:16.I am quite familiar with the economic, social and political

:36:17. > :36:25.conditions of that place. I am not saying anything here say with any

:36:26. > :36:31.vested interests, at the lump formed information. I am saying that

:36:32. > :36:34.because -- or ill informed information. I am saying that

:36:35. > :36:38.because I have seen what has happened, and the political

:36:39. > :36:48.situation over there. After listening to previous speakers, I

:36:49. > :36:57.feel sad that we are bringing the issues which are not linked at all,

:36:58. > :37:09.not happening the way you're presenting it. Look at the political

:37:10. > :37:16.situation. I strongly support... For the last 45 years I have canvassed,

:37:17. > :37:21.campaigned on human rights issues. Where India has violated human

:37:22. > :37:28.rights I have criticised. I have criticised India many times on many

:37:29. > :37:34.other traditions happening, whether government or people failed. That is

:37:35. > :37:43.where I feel strongly that the way we are debating Kashmir issues

:37:44. > :37:51.are untrue and not relevant to the are untrue and not relevant to the

:37:52. > :37:53.situation. Give way. Does he accept, he mentions he visited there are 14

:37:54. > :37:56.times, but does he accept that the times, but does he accept that the

:37:57. > :37:59.Indian authorities make it exceptionally difficult for British

:38:00. > :38:08.members of parliament to visit that part of the world? I am sure that it

:38:09. > :38:14.is happening. The reason is that when you wanted to go and visit a

:38:15. > :38:18.prejudices before you go. If you prejudices before you go. If you

:38:19. > :38:27.have declared beforehand what you think is happening there, publicly

:38:28. > :38:32.me one example of a government that me one example of a government that

:38:33. > :38:40.has allowed people to go to the country that you criticised. Give

:38:41. > :38:45.way. I thank the honourable member who is well respected in this House

:38:46. > :38:51.for his expertise, does he at least accept that by speaking up against

:38:52. > :38:59.human rights violations in any country, one is not necessarily

:39:00. > :39:03.against that country? The danger is we are taking time off someone else

:39:04. > :39:04.by interventions. I do not mind having the debate, but I want to

:39:05. > :39:13.Thank you. I am not saying that is treat everyone equally.

:39:14. > :39:18.Thank you. I am not saying that is the way you present the argument is

:39:19. > :39:23.right, no government, no authority will allow you to do when you are

:39:24. > :39:38.not free of your own will... I think I carry on. I am sure you will be

:39:39. > :39:43.speaking later on. I am very grateful. My honourable friend, I am

:39:44. > :39:47.chair of the justice for Columbia group, I criticised the Colombian

:39:48. > :39:54.government time and time again and they let me into the country where I

:39:55. > :40:03.criticised them again. If we look at the history, what is happening since

:40:04. > :40:13.1947, after 1948, when the line of control was declared, when it was

:40:14. > :40:18.ceasefire, India and Pakistan, which we on one side are advocating should

:40:19. > :40:25.be part and parcel of that negotiations, have attacked India in

:40:26. > :40:36.1965, 1971, to change that line of control. Again, in 1999, Pakistan

:40:37. > :40:42.tried to seize an opportunity to redraw the internationally accepted

:40:43. > :40:49.line of control. Three times, 1965, 1971, 1999. Having been unsuccessful

:40:50. > :41:00.in full-scale military manoeuvres to take control of more of Kashmir,

:41:01. > :41:07.since... They have turned towards terrorism to further their aims. In

:41:08. > :41:10.2004, Pakistan made a public commitment to prevent terrorist

:41:11. > :41:19.groups using their territory to plan, prepare or launch attacks

:41:20. > :41:27.against India. Since then, the Pakistani spy agency have been

:41:28. > :41:33.indicated in India's most notorious terrorist incidents, most notably,

:41:34. > :41:42.the 2008 Mumbai attacks which left nearly 200 bed. This behaviour... I

:41:43. > :41:46.will come onto Kashmir as well, but I'm giving the background. This

:41:47. > :42:03.behaviour is readily seen across Kashmir. Fighters from Pakistan...

:42:04. > :42:07.These terrorists are there to destabilise the region, they do not

:42:08. > :42:12.help the people of Kashmir, they do not make anyone stronger, they only

:42:13. > :42:19.further the misery of millions. Since the 1948 riots, there have

:42:20. > :42:26.been attempts to cleanse the region of native people opposed to Pakistan

:42:27. > :42:36.interventions. In the 1990s, we saw the most sustained activity aimed at

:42:37. > :42:45.driving Kashmiris from the Kashmir valley. Whereas a quarter of a meal

:42:46. > :42:55.-- million lived in Kashmir in 1947, there are now only around 20,000.

:42:56. > :42:59.The majority now live in camps, desperate to return to their

:43:00. > :43:08.homeland, unwilling to settle elsewhere. The threat of communal

:43:09. > :43:13.violence looms large, and ever present threat for millions. This is

:43:14. > :43:19.why we see images of shoulders across Kashmir, they are there to

:43:20. > :43:25.protect citizens of all stripes, people who want to go to work,

:43:26. > :43:30.school or University are only allowed to do so under the

:43:31. > :43:34.protection of the Indian Army. Without the protection of Indian

:43:35. > :43:38.troops, we can see to easily what happens. Horrifying stories of

:43:39. > :43:48.brutality from Peshawar school attacks, it left 132 schoolchildren

:43:49. > :43:55.died, assassination attempts... Very few members of this house would have

:43:56. > :43:59.done anything but a firm that actions of the British Army in

:44:00. > :44:09.trying to maintain the status quo in Northern Ireland. The Army is there

:44:10. > :44:15.to ensure to protect the border, and just like they did in Belfast, to

:44:16. > :44:17.make sure that young boys and girls, from catholic and Protestant

:44:18. > :44:26.families, can continue to live the lives they want to. The national

:44:27. > :44:29.Human Rights Commission of India have been free to criticise and call

:44:30. > :44:35.for punishment whether all of law has not been upheld to rigorous

:44:36. > :44:38.standard -- where the rule of law. This is not a level of freedom

:44:39. > :44:48.allowed to these residents and Pakistan, recognised as the world's

:44:49. > :44:55.leading sponsor of terrorism. Following the State elections in

:44:56. > :45:02.2014, I will give way soon... We are now on 11 minutes, we are well over,

:45:03. > :45:11.it is a very important matter, but I want to make sure everyone gets a

:45:12. > :45:17.say. By working everyday for a safer, more prosperous Kashmir, the

:45:18. > :45:21.Indian government is fulfilling its remit, people desire a life

:45:22. > :45:26.unblemished by random acts of terror, where they are free to

:45:27. > :45:33.pursue education, employment and peaceful lives. Why must we again

:45:34. > :45:39.listen to hyped media accusations rather than looking at the evidence

:45:40. > :45:43.of peaceful elections? I rise to support the motion and in

:45:44. > :45:46.congratulating my honourable friend on security in the debate and also

:45:47. > :45:51.congratulating him on the spirit with which he moved the motion. I am

:45:52. > :45:55.very proud we are having this, the second debate, in the time since I

:45:56. > :46:00.was elected, and I'm very proud to be in a position in which I stood on

:46:01. > :46:05.the 15th of September, 2011. I am very proud of the UK and Wycombe's

:46:06. > :46:08.Kashmiris for the dignity and determination with which they

:46:09. > :46:13.presume this issue. Despite the difficulty of doing so. And in the

:46:14. > :46:18.context of the seriousness of the issues involved. I wish to make

:46:19. > :46:21.three points to the Minister. The first, about the intractability of

:46:22. > :46:24.the issue. The second about some lessons from our own referendum. The

:46:25. > :46:30.third about how we might make progress. It is the long-standing

:46:31. > :46:34.position of the Government that this is a matter for the two independent

:46:35. > :46:41.nations of India and Pakistan to resolve. I have found a reliably,

:46:42. > :46:48.that within the Foreign Office, this issue is known with some graveyard

:46:49. > :46:53.humour, sorry, gallows humour, as the graveyard of Foreign Secretary

:46:54. > :46:56.'s and that is a matter of very considerable regret. The issue of

:46:57. > :47:01.self-determination as we have seen in the UK is not one to be thought

:47:02. > :47:07.of as impossible to meet, we have just met it and I think this is a

:47:08. > :47:09.moment when the Foreign Office should know self-determination is

:47:10. > :47:14.not an issue on which no progress can be made in the 21st-century. I

:47:15. > :47:18.think it is not good enough to adopt this policy and I do not mean that

:47:19. > :47:23.as a criticism of this government because I am acutely aware, as

:47:24. > :47:26.everyone here will know, that this is a long-standing policy which

:47:27. > :47:29.governments of all colours have taken. I mean no criticism of this

:47:30. > :47:33.government and its minister but I do wish to say that it is not good

:47:34. > :47:37.enough to continue this policy. It is not good enough for two reasons.

:47:38. > :47:41.First, it is incumbent on all of us in this House to represent the many

:47:42. > :47:47.thousands of people in our constituencies whose origins, family

:47:48. > :47:52.origins, will be either Indian or Pakistani or Kashmiri, they deserve

:47:53. > :47:58.to have their voices heard in this place and internationally. I will.

:47:59. > :48:04.Just briefly. I think he is making a very important point. What Kashmiris

:48:05. > :48:07.say to me, particularly in Nottingham and across the country,

:48:08. > :48:13.it is almost there is a sense in which there needs to be a much

:48:14. > :48:17.greater urgency from everyone to actually tackle this problem. It has

:48:18. > :48:24.been going on for decades and people worry about that in ten years, 20,

:48:25. > :48:29.30, people will stubbly discussing the same issue. That is why I begin

:48:30. > :48:32.with this point about intractability because the other reason it is not

:48:33. > :48:36.good enough to adopt the current position is that it is a legacy of

:48:37. > :48:39.the British Empire and we should acknowledge our historic

:48:40. > :48:42.responsibility. There is a conversation to be had here about

:48:43. > :48:47.world views and willingness of individuals to accept ancestral

:48:48. > :48:51.response will it be but that is perhaps for another day. What I'm

:48:52. > :48:55.saying is that just because it is difficult to make a stand on this

:48:56. > :48:59.issue, it does not mean it is not the right thing to do. It is the

:49:00. > :49:03.right thing to do, to make a stand, as the British Government, on this

:49:04. > :49:08.question. I would just like to pose some questions about lessons which

:49:09. > :49:12.we might learn from our own referendum because I think those of

:49:13. > :49:19.us who are asking for a referendum for the fulfilment of United Nations

:49:20. > :49:23.mandates, we have to ask ourselves, what if we win, what if we make

:49:24. > :49:28.progress, what if a referendum were held? I want to make two points. The

:49:29. > :49:31.first is, on what collective basis could such a referendum be held?

:49:32. > :49:36.What would be the day must assume who would vote? -- what would be

:49:37. > :49:41.that day mosque? Who would vote? We know there are those who do not wish

:49:42. > :49:46.to accept a national referendum result. We know the Scottish

:49:47. > :49:50.National Party upon the point of how Scotland voted. These will all be

:49:51. > :49:56.live issues in the event of the referendum being held in Kashmir. I

:49:57. > :50:02.would appeal to the Kashmiris who work on this issue to give very

:50:03. > :50:05.serious thought to what the demos would be and on what basis the

:50:06. > :50:11.result will be considered legitimate by all parties. The other issue

:50:12. > :50:15.which is an issue of the first seriousness is we saw in our own

:50:16. > :50:21.country, in the UK, where politics generally precedes no further than

:50:22. > :50:27.harsh language, that passions ran extremely high. In a region of the

:50:28. > :50:34.world where life complex amongst major powers, nuclear armed powers,

:50:35. > :50:39.it is a risk, I think we have to ask ourselves, how would a referendum in

:50:40. > :50:45.Kashmir proceed peacefully, not just during the course of the campaign,

:50:46. > :50:50.but afterwards as well? I would also make finally on this point something

:50:51. > :50:53.about unity. I know there are British Kashmiris in Whickham who

:50:54. > :50:57.voted remain and many who did not vote at all but they supported this

:50:58. > :51:03.fundamental principle that we should have had a referendum and I'm very

:51:04. > :51:08.used to stand with them united that as we go forwards which have a

:51:09. > :51:12.referendum for Kashmir. The third point is perhaps the most

:51:13. > :51:16.contentious. How should we make progress as Jim at the honourable

:51:17. > :51:19.gentleman who preceded me described as untrue some of the things which

:51:20. > :51:24.this House has already heard in the course of this debate. This is a

:51:25. > :51:29.very important point. We have heard at different times Pakistan accused

:51:30. > :51:33.of state-sponsored terrorism, we have heard India accused of using

:51:34. > :51:41.inappropriate weapons, of gang rape, of murder. I do not wish to see the

:51:42. > :51:46.wrath these nations slandered. Of course, the crucial difference

:51:47. > :51:52.between a valid charge and a slander is the issue of truth. -- I do not

:51:53. > :51:58.wish to see either of these nations slandered. I want a relentless focus

:51:59. > :52:04.on objective fact. I know what I have seen with my own eyes of the

:52:05. > :52:06.video shown to me, I have seen what purports to be Indian soldiers

:52:07. > :52:14.beating confessions from a man and I have seen a video of what purports

:52:15. > :52:19.to be Indian soldiers killing a man in the rubble of his own home in

:52:20. > :52:22.Kashmir. They are images which I would prefer I had never seen and

:52:23. > :52:29.which I would never wish to see again. The crucial question is, are

:52:30. > :52:36.they a set up? Are they propaganda? Are they true question they are

:52:37. > :52:47.true, the issue of Kashmir is a matter for the whole world. -- are

:52:48. > :52:52.they true? If they are true. The overwhelming consensus is that we

:52:53. > :52:56.should stay out of Indian affairs. But I would say that if these

:52:57. > :53:02.allegations are true, the whole world cannot stay out of Kashmir and

:53:03. > :53:06.India and Pakistan's affairs. I will not give way. I am being encouraged

:53:07. > :53:11.to wrap up. I would say to the Government, I understand the Foreign

:53:12. > :53:14.Office thinks the issue is intractable but we have seen in our

:53:15. > :53:18.own country, it need not be. There are lessons to be learned, the

:53:19. > :53:21.Government can facilitate them. For goodness sake, let us recognise that

:53:22. > :53:25.if even a fraction of the allegations being made are true,

:53:26. > :53:34.this is an urgent and pressing issue for the whole world. Thank you. The

:53:35. > :53:41.House will know of my very long-standing interest in the issue

:53:42. > :53:44.of Kashmir. In my consistency, there are many thousands of British

:53:45. > :53:49.citizens of Kashmiri extraction who have made their home in my

:53:50. > :53:54.constituency and I take an interest on their behalf and also a more

:53:55. > :54:00.personal interest because my own family originate from Kashmir, or

:54:01. > :54:04.four of my grandparents were born in Kashmir and before my family moved

:54:05. > :54:09.to this country, so this debate has very personal resonance for me,

:54:10. > :54:17.former constituency, myself my own family. The number has already set

:54:18. > :54:21.out the background to the very long-standing dispute. -- the

:54:22. > :54:26.member. I pay tribute to those who led the charge to get the debate

:54:27. > :54:32.today. We have heard already that it is a very long-standing dispute

:54:33. > :54:36.between two nuclear armed powers in one of the world's most heavily

:54:37. > :54:40.militarised regions and it does not receive enough attention anywhere

:54:41. > :54:44.outside of that region around the world and certainly not in our own

:54:45. > :54:49.country, given the size of our British Kashmiri bop elation. It has

:54:50. > :54:53.a lot of attention from that population but not enough from those

:54:54. > :54:59.outside of that. I pay tribute to all of the campaign is on this issue

:55:00. > :55:02.for, from all sides of the House, who have been taking every

:55:03. > :55:06.opportunity available to raise this very serious matter in the House of

:55:07. > :55:10.Commons and to press our government, both the current government and

:55:11. > :55:13.previous governments, to do more to up to build a resolution to the

:55:14. > :55:22.long-standing crisis. The further push for debate

:55:23. > :55:29.regarding Kashmir has come in particular as a result of the

:55:30. > :55:34.upsurge in violence that we have seen in India-administered Kashmir

:55:35. > :55:40.from last summer. What we see there is the unacceptable failure of the

:55:41. > :55:46.whole world and the denial to give effect to UN resolutions, to

:55:47. > :55:50.represent the self determination of the Kashmiri people. The people have

:55:51. > :55:58.lost hope and are rising against that loss of hope to try and force

:55:59. > :56:04.their rights to be respected. That upsurge in violence had illicited a

:56:05. > :56:10.brutal response from the Indian authorities. I disagree with my

:56:11. > :56:14.honourable friend, I do not believe it is possible to minimise the

:56:15. > :56:19.extent to which the Indian authorities have acted in a

:56:20. > :56:24.disproportionate manner that has created great tragedy for the

:56:25. > :56:32.Kashmiri people in that region. This is the biggest uprising in two

:56:33. > :56:39.decades and the brutality of the Security Services cannot be ignored.

:56:40. > :56:42.And that is seen by human rights organisations across the world,

:56:43. > :56:49.including human rights watch, who found that the police and security

:56:50. > :56:53.forces have acted with impunity and there have been killings and mass

:56:54. > :56:58.rape and I concur with the comments made in the speech by the member for

:56:59. > :57:03.High Wycombe that of course there will be questions about the voracity

:57:04. > :57:09.of the videos we see on social media, but there should be an open

:57:10. > :57:13.investigation to prove the voracity of the videos and if they are true,

:57:14. > :57:18.which I I believe they will be found to be true, then there are big

:57:19. > :57:23.questions for India to answer. A and there is a difference between the

:57:24. > :57:27.Indian Government and the other Governments that commit human rights

:57:28. > :57:32.abuses is that India is the largest democracy in the world and as a

:57:33. > :57:36.democracy it is not simply giving a vote to your people, it includes

:57:37. > :57:41.more, that is about respect for the rule of law and basic human rights

:57:42. > :57:48.which have to be protected and sit alongside the ability of a people to

:57:49. > :57:54.elect their own Government. Due to time I would be doing other members

:57:55. > :57:59.out of time. The use of pellet gun has also been raised by members

:58:00. > :58:03.already. But I think this is a significant issue for the Indian

:58:04. > :58:08.Government eight is something on which our Government must press them

:58:09. > :58:13.more. The Indian defence for the use of pellet guns to seal off

:58:14. > :58:18.protesters who they say are throwing stones that is pellet guns are

:58:19. > :58:25.non-lethal. A pellet gun is probably not going to kill you, but I defy

:58:26. > :58:30.anybody to see pictures of victims to say that is a proportionate use

:58:31. > :58:33.to use against civilians in a democracy. It is not and nobody I

:58:34. > :58:43.believe in this House of Commons will stand up and say that it is.

:58:44. > :58:46.Often when we have debated Kashmir, people who speak more in favour of

:58:47. > :58:52.Indian Government stance on this will say, well, the position for

:58:53. > :58:56.those that live in Kashmir is better, because they can vote and

:58:57. > :59:00.they can take part in the democratic process and that they are basically

:59:01. > :59:05.free so that self-determination is not necessary, because these are a

:59:06. > :59:11.free people electing their own leaders with a significant

:59:12. > :59:15.devolution of power. Well, nobody, not one person, in Kashmir has voted

:59:16. > :59:24.to be hurt, to be injured, to be beaten up, to be raped to be blinded

:59:25. > :59:30.or killed and pellet wounds are a brutal response and send a brutal

:59:31. > :59:38.message to people and leave brutal scars. They are not just carried by

:59:39. > :59:43.the individuals physically, but by the whole community, both in the

:59:44. > :59:49.region and around the world for those of us of Kashmiri descent. It

:59:50. > :59:55.is a sign of desire to resist repression. That cry to be heard is

:59:56. > :59:58.falling on deaf ears in the largest democracy in the world, which wants

:59:59. > :00:04.to do more business with the rest of the world and play a greater role in

:00:05. > :00:09.world affairs. I'm afraid to say that current position is simply not

:00:10. > :00:14.acceptable and our government must not shy away from making that plain.

:00:15. > :00:20.Especially in relation to the use of pellet guns. Tremendous appalling,

:00:21. > :00:26.sustained and deliberate misery has been visited upon the people of

:00:27. > :00:32.Kashmir for too long. The stories of disappearances of the discovery of

:00:33. > :00:39.mass graves that has brought no feshl UN -- initial UN-led

:00:40. > :00:45.information and the impunity of security forces and the special

:00:46. > :00:49.powers act. If a people are humiliated, abused and offered only

:00:50. > :00:55.despair and no answers and no rights, then there will be uprising.

:00:56. > :00:59.It is inevitable and none of us as responsible legislators also working

:01:00. > :01:05.in a democracy can sit back and watch those events unfold and sit on

:01:06. > :01:11.our hands. We can do more. The legacy of empire demands we do more.

:01:12. > :01:14.We have a duty to speak out more regularly and challenge and

:01:15. > :01:17.encourage both the Indian and the Pakistani authorities, I have to say

:01:18. > :01:21.to the minister, the written answers to the questions that have been

:01:22. > :01:28.tabled, particularly last summer, are so bland it is as if these

:01:29. > :01:41.matters are something that is just a daily occurrence that can be

:01:42. > :01:44.ignored. There are other disputes that gain more responses. There has

:01:45. > :01:48.been no answer on whether the Prime Minister raised the issue of human

:01:49. > :01:53.rights abuses with the Indian Government. It is not enough to tell

:01:54. > :02:02.us the issue of Kashmir was raised, we need to know whether human rights

:02:03. > :02:05.were raised. I believe it is now incumbent upon the British

:02:06. > :02:11.Government to make a clear call at the UN to raise this issue at the

:02:12. > :02:15.united nations to ask for an independent investigation and review

:02:16. > :02:20.so we can demonstrate that while some parts of this world see this as

:02:21. > :02:25.a foregopt conflict -- forgotten conflict, we will never forget it

:02:26. > :02:29.and we will keep fighting. Thank you and a pleasure to follow the

:02:30. > :02:34.honourable lady for Birmingham. I would also like to commend my

:02:35. > :02:44.honourable friend the member for Bury North in the calm manner which

:02:45. > :02:52.he introduced the debachlt bate. So far in this debate no one has yet

:02:53. > :03:01.mentioned that the 19th January 1990 was an evil day in the history of

:03:02. > :03:09.Kashmir. This was the day when 65,000 Hindus were forcibly expelled

:03:10. > :03:14.from the Kashmir valley by Islamic Jihadist, under the slogan - die,

:03:15. > :03:20.convert or leave. And they only forced the men out, they said, leave

:03:21. > :03:26.your women, we will convert them, we will rape them and make them all

:03:27. > :03:32.Muslim. The reality is that one of sad facts of this very largely

:03:33. > :03:38.foregont area of -- forgotten area of conflict has been that we have a

:03:39. > :03:45.religious element to this as well an aspect of where people wish to live.

:03:46. > :03:56.I had the opportunity last year in February of visiting Kashmir and I

:03:57. > :04:04.went to the area and I was able to meet people of all walks of life.

:04:05. > :04:10.But in particular the people of Chamber of Commerce, who came with a

:04:11. > :04:16.series of opportunities, not only opportunities for trade, Hydro

:04:17. > :04:20.Electric power, for the opportunities of agriculture, of

:04:21. > :04:27.canning goods to be sold across the world, of using the beauty of the

:04:28. > :04:33.Kashmir valley to attract tourists to this area, an area we would all

:04:34. > :04:37.love to visit and our people from across the world to be able to

:04:38. > :04:47.visit. But the one fundamental issue they all raised was that of safety

:04:48. > :04:50.and security. And the reality is Wen when is when we talk about the

:04:51. > :04:56.suffering that has taken place in the region, we have to concentrate

:04:57. > :05:03.on the human rights abuses and violations that have taken place on

:05:04. > :05:10.the Hindus, on the Sikhs, and also the minority Muslims. The sad fact

:05:11. > :05:13.is that this has been used as a means of literally ethnically

:05:14. > :05:17.cleansing this part of world. We should remember as part of back

:05:18. > :05:24.ground and I hope when the minister replays to this debate that he will

:05:25. > :05:30.-- replies to this debate, when he will mention what the authorities

:05:31. > :05:35.have identified as terrorism being one of major causes of concern to

:05:36. > :05:43.the European Union and to India. They jointly in their communique

:05:44. > :05:47.condemned the terror attacks in Brussels, Paris, and recalled the

:05:48. > :05:52.November 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai. And called for the

:05:53. > :06:05.perpetrators to be brought to justice. Leaders called for decisive

:06:06. > :06:09.and united actions to be taken against Isil and other international

:06:10. > :06:15.active terrorist groups such as Al-Qaeda. The reality is these

:06:16. > :06:20.terrorist groups all operate from Pakistan. They are along the

:06:21. > :06:26.international line of control. And the reality is they are infiltrating

:06:27. > :06:33.terrorists into the sovereign state of Kashmir. Before I go on, we have

:06:34. > :06:39.had contributions from colleagues, we should remember that the

:06:40. > :06:49.fundamental elements of this is when Britain ceased to be the colonial

:06:50. > :06:58.power, the decision on where states decided to opt for Pakistan or

:06:59. > :07:04.Indian control was left to each state and the Mara ja signed the

:07:05. > :07:11.instrument of accession to India, bringing the state under India on

:07:12. > :07:15.26th October 1947. So we should be clear under international law, the

:07:16. > :07:22.whole of Kashmir is an integral part of India. It is the crowning glory

:07:23. > :07:26.of India. As such, every other aspect has gone on after that has

:07:27. > :07:32.been violations of international law. The UN resolution which has

:07:33. > :07:39.been alluded to by several members, of course we must remember the very

:07:40. > :07:45.detail of this. It was Prime Minister Nehru that took the issue

:07:46. > :07:48.to the UN in the first place, seeking very importantly the

:07:49. > :07:58.Pakistani forces that illegally occupy part of the sovereign state

:07:59. > :08:02.of Kashmir to leave. And the United Nations resolutions called on, the

:08:03. > :08:07.first element is the illegally occupying forces of Pakistan to

:08:08. > :08:11.leave cash mish and then for -- Kashmir and then for the Indian

:08:12. > :08:16.forces to reduce to what is required for security and only then for a

:08:17. > :08:22.decision to be made on a plebiscite of, for the people as to what should

:08:23. > :08:27.be their destiny. Pakistan has never accepted that and never complied

:08:28. > :08:30.with that resolution and that is one of reasons why we have this

:08:31. > :08:35.challenge and problem today. I will give way. He is making a very

:08:36. > :08:39.articulate case, does he think there is any chance of India engaging in

:08:40. > :08:43.confidence-building measures on this point with Pakistan, so that that

:08:44. > :08:49.element of the resolution might ever be fulfilled. Is India willing to

:08:50. > :08:55.give appropriate assurances? Thank you. I can't speak for the

:08:56. > :09:01.Government of India. And the role of the UK now is we ceased to be a

:09:02. > :09:06.colonial power. We are not the power going to tell India or Pakistan what

:09:07. > :09:08.to do. One reason I'm concerned it is could be misinterpreted in other

:09:09. > :09:21.parts of world in this respect. I know the Deputy Speaker will hold

:09:22. > :09:26.me to account. There have been numerous violations of the ceasefire

:09:27. > :09:30.along the line of control and the recent upsurge in violence which was

:09:31. > :09:36.mentioned by my honourable friend for Bury North, there have been

:09:37. > :09:43.studies with the Indian troops were killed and murdered, the shells, the

:09:44. > :09:49.GPS units, everything else, it came from Pakistan, they are Pakistani

:09:50. > :09:56.military use. It is quite clear that Pakistan was behind that particular

:09:57. > :10:01.conflict. I would also mention that the number of violations across the

:10:02. > :10:03.line of control have been frequent, well-documented and need to be

:10:04. > :10:11.understood and the recent upsurge in violence, of course, came about as a

:10:12. > :10:19.result of the Indian forces eliminating the Jihadi John poster

:10:20. > :10:25.boy of jihad. What I would just say in my final remarks, the use of

:10:26. > :10:32.pellet guns and the other human rights abuses have been taken up by

:10:33. > :10:34.the state government of Kashmir, they have had four debates on the

:10:35. > :10:42.subject and the human rights abuses subject and the human rights abuses

:10:43. > :10:43.fully investigated and any have been called to account, will

:10:44. > :10:47.fully investigated and any perpetrators will be punished. I

:10:48. > :10:53.state is looking after those aspects state is looking after those aspects

:10:54. > :11:08.and what we want to see is a peaceful resolution to this position

:11:09. > :11:12.and the people of Kashmir and Ladakh being able to live in peace and

:11:13. > :11:16.harmony. Can I take this opportunity to congratulate the honourable

:11:17. > :11:26.member for Bury North in securing this very important debate today? As

:11:27. > :11:32.vice-chair of the old -- all-party parliament regroup, I want to put

:11:33. > :11:36.that on the record. I am privileged to be able to take part in this

:11:37. > :11:42.extremely important debate, one that I know matters deeply to many of my

:11:43. > :11:47.constituents and also matters deeply to me personally. I also... My

:11:48. > :11:54.family also originate from the state of Kashmir and I know the region

:11:55. > :11:59.very well. Whilst the seriousness of this issue means that I could talk

:12:00. > :12:03.at great length, time not permitting, I will try to keep my

:12:04. > :12:07.contributions to several key areas. The first key area which I wish to

:12:08. > :12:13.cover and the one I believe is the most pressing is the long-standing

:12:14. > :12:19.and ongoing human rights abuses taking place in that region. It has

:12:20. > :12:22.been mentioned last summer and long after, we saw the devastating

:12:23. > :12:28.deployment of pellet guns resulting in the indiscriminate maiming and

:12:29. > :12:36.blinding of hundreds and hundreds of Kashmiris. We also saw the horrific

:12:37. > :12:43.photos of the aftermath of the use of pellets, the bloodied faces of

:12:44. > :12:47.demonstrators and children, images that we would all like to forget.

:12:48. > :12:55.But security forces did not stop there. We saw thousands injured and

:12:56. > :13:00.internet cut and phone lines were strained and the region placed under

:13:01. > :13:07.strict curfew, moves we would expect under a repressive regime and not

:13:08. > :13:13.one which has the hallmarks of a free, open and liberal society. The

:13:14. > :13:18.abuse then turned deadly with the illegal use of live ammunition, by

:13:19. > :13:25.security forces, on unarmed demonstrators, resulting in their

:13:26. > :13:30.deaths. Unfortunately, however, this is nothing new. The reality is that

:13:31. > :13:37.human rights abuses have gone on largely unchecked for decades in

:13:38. > :13:38.that region. Something well-documented by many

:13:39. > :13:44.well-respected human rights organisations. Unaccountability for

:13:45. > :13:50.these crimes is rife and if we are to address the abuses, Mr Deputy

:13:51. > :13:55.Speaker, we must first look at the draconian Indian Armed Forces

:13:56. > :14:01.special Powers act, an instrument which allows the security forces to

:14:02. > :14:07.escape justice and accountability. Only ever intended to be invoked on

:14:08. > :14:14.a temporary basis of the special Powers act has continued in force

:14:15. > :14:17.since 1990. It has been widely criticised by well-respected human

:14:18. > :14:28.rights organisations with numerous calls for it to be repealed, calls

:14:29. > :14:31.which I repeat here today. It grants security forces in the region

:14:32. > :14:35.heavy-handed powers to kill, arrest and search and it is because of this

:14:36. > :14:42.act we have seen near unspeakable horrors and abuses of human rights,

:14:43. > :14:47.extrajudicial killings, forced disappearances, tortures, mass

:14:48. > :14:52.rapes, children orphaned, and according to recent figures

:14:53. > :15:02.published in the Journal of conflict resolution, between 1989 and 2010,

:15:03. > :15:06.there were almost 7000 killings, 118 civilians arrested, almost 10,000

:15:07. > :15:17.women rate or molested and as many as 10,000 Kashmiri use forcefully

:15:18. > :15:20.disappeared -- women raped. If we are in any doubt that it is taking

:15:21. > :15:26.place, and I must say that I do disagree with my honourable friend

:15:27. > :15:32.from Ealing South, I think these abuses are well documented and to

:15:33. > :15:38.deny that is to go against many well-respected human rights

:15:39. > :15:45.organisations and to also go against the evidence and footage, both

:15:46. > :15:50.photographic and video, that we have seen with our own eyes. I do

:15:51. > :16:00.think... I'm a comeback. Time is limited. -- I may come back. It has

:16:01. > :16:05.been mentioned in the House today, we must not turn a blind eye to

:16:06. > :16:12.abuses taking place. We must not ignore them. We must not stand by.

:16:13. > :16:18.We must send a clear message today that wherever it takes place,

:16:19. > :16:27.injustice is injustice and will never be tolerated. The second

:16:28. > :16:29.issue, Mr Deputy Speaker, is the issue around self-determination,

:16:30. > :16:34.specifically the rights of the sons of daughters -- sons and daughters

:16:35. > :16:39.of Kashmir. Determination and the urgent need for them to be able to

:16:40. > :16:45.exercise this right. A lot has been said around the United Nations

:16:46. > :16:49.resolution 47, calling for a plebiscite on the future of the

:16:50. > :16:57.region and it is this resolution but I feel is crucial to the story of

:16:58. > :17:02.Kashmir, past and present. It is a non-binding resolution, that is why

:17:03. > :17:09.we have not seen the plebiscite take place in that region. However, I

:17:10. > :17:12.call here today again, we need to see the implementation of that

:17:13. > :17:19.resolution, whether it is called the UN resolution 47, a free and fair

:17:20. > :17:23.plebiscite, whatever we want to name it, the ultimate choice must be for

:17:24. > :17:28.the sons and daughters of Kashmir to determine their own destiny. For

:17:29. > :17:35.over 70 years of the sons and daughters of Kashmir have waited for

:17:36. > :17:38.their voice to be heard, they have been waiting to make their decision

:17:39. > :17:46.on their future determine their lives. For over 70 years, they have

:17:47. > :17:50.been denied their birthright to self-determination and the

:17:51. > :17:55.international community must today allow what is fair, proper and allow

:17:56. > :18:01.the sons and daughters of Kashmir the birthright. In concluding, time

:18:02. > :18:05.not permitting, of course this is an area I am very passionate about and

:18:06. > :18:12.I could go on, but in concluding, I want to again give the Minister, and

:18:13. > :18:18.the Minister knows in this very House, I have asked him to use the

:18:19. > :18:25.opportunity to condemn the abuses in human rights in that region and I

:18:26. > :18:29.ask him again today, please use this opportunity on behalf of the

:18:30. > :18:35.Government to condemn those abuses and at the very least, Minister,

:18:36. > :18:40.please accept that the abuses taking place. Secondly, please assure us

:18:41. > :18:45.they are doing everything they can to allow for a peaceful resolution

:18:46. > :18:48.on the basis of the sons and daughters of Kashmir determining

:18:49. > :18:56.their own destiny, something which is very much overdue. Thank you. And

:18:57. > :19:03.I first congratulate the honourable member for securing this timely and

:19:04. > :19:06.important debate? It is said that in war there are no winners, only

:19:07. > :19:13.losers. If so, the people of the Kashmir region have paid too great a

:19:14. > :19:22.price. Since the UN resolution in 1948, almost 70 years, we have been

:19:23. > :19:30.no closer to self-determination. Many will speak today about the last

:19:31. > :19:36.six month and backward steps. Curfews, censorship, the death of

:19:37. > :19:45.military personnel on both sides and military personnel on both sides and

:19:46. > :19:45.food shortages, refugee crisis civilians, the economy

:19:46. > :19:46.food shortages, refugee crisis caused by displaced civilians and

:19:47. > :19:55.community... Geek divisions on both control. We ask

:19:56. > :19:58.community... Geek divisions on both sides of the line of control and

:19:59. > :20:03.progress is well and truly in reverse -- deep divisions. It has

:20:04. > :20:07.been the position of this government and successive governments that the

:20:08. > :20:10.issue of Kashmir is for India and Pakistan to resolve at a pace that

:20:11. > :20:17.they see fit in a way they see fit. It is not for this government to

:20:18. > :20:23.intervene. But then what is it that this House and this country stands

:20:24. > :20:26.for? We have lost of life, widely reported human rights abuses and

:20:27. > :20:30.United Nations that cannot gain genuine access to the Kashmir

:20:31. > :20:34.valley. To our shame, we raised this issue with both sides, but every

:20:35. > :20:39.time any member of this government had been challenged to raise this

:20:40. > :20:45.issue directly at the when, as far as we can tell, it has been politely

:20:46. > :20:48.declined, deflected and ignored. Those that live in the region and

:20:49. > :20:53.those of us that followed the events in Kashmir closely will know that it

:20:54. > :20:57.is a deep underlying tension that has scarred one of the most

:20:58. > :21:00.beautiful places in the world. We have all seen the pictures and

:21:01. > :21:05.reports of the aggressive tactics used to silence dissent and squash

:21:06. > :21:12.civil unrest. The people are restless. And rightly so. It has

:21:13. > :21:16.been nearly 70 years since partition and we are no closer to being in

:21:17. > :21:19.control of their own destiny. The reports that have come out of the

:21:20. > :21:25.region have been tragic and disturbing. Estimates put the

:21:26. > :21:29.civilian deaths somewhere between 85-120. The civilian casualties is

:21:30. > :21:35.estimated to be over 13,000 because of action by security services. We

:21:36. > :21:37.have thinking indication restricted, internet and telephone services, and

:21:38. > :21:41.an attack on the free press, in particular the Kashmir Reader who

:21:42. > :21:51.are banned for publishing for months. Many have talked about use

:21:52. > :21:56.of pellets. The question of how... The pellets have a six metre

:21:57. > :22:01.dispersal. It is by any definitive and indiscriminate use of force when

:22:02. > :22:05.used in a crowd. Reports have shown that many civilians have lost their

:22:06. > :22:10.eyesight because of this modern form of crowd control. One of the widely

:22:11. > :22:16.reported stories I heard that struck me was that of a 14-year-old girl

:22:17. > :22:23.who died of respiratory illness. She died as a result of inhaling chile

:22:24. > :22:29.gas. For six days, she lived with burns to her throat and lungs and

:22:30. > :22:32.eventually passed away in hospital on a ventilator. The motion itself,

:22:33. > :22:41.in relation to the motion, it raises a number of issues that need

:22:42. > :22:41.consideration by the House, the consideration

:22:42. > :22:43.Government needs to do more at the Government needs to do more at the

:22:44. > :22:46.tension, to encourage both sides to tension, to encourage both sides to

:22:47. > :22:53.give the UN access to the Kashmir valley and assess reports of human

:22:54. > :22:57.rights violations. Does she agree that one of the more constructive

:22:58. > :22:59.things this government could do is press for an independent inquiry

:23:00. > :23:05.into human rights abuses conducted by the UN which has helped in other

:23:06. > :23:08.situations of around the world? I thank her for intervening and I

:23:09. > :23:13.absolutely agree, we need to push for an independent inquiry. We are

:23:14. > :23:17.not asking the Government to prescribe how Pakistan and India can

:23:18. > :23:20.resolve the entrenched issue of peace in Kashmir but everyone here

:23:21. > :23:25.would recognise that with the situation as it is on the ground,

:23:26. > :23:27.with civilians being killed and impoverished, there can be no

:23:28. > :23:31.progress towards peace and resolution. We have an obligation to

:23:32. > :23:37.do everything in our power to help the region return to a level of

:23:38. > :23:42.normality. I use that term loosely. Before any progress can be made

:23:43. > :23:46.towards peace. What this motion also recognises is that for any meaning

:23:47. > :23:51.of lasting peace in the region, the people of Kashmir have to have the

:23:52. > :23:56.freedom and security to make that decision for themselves. We don't

:23:57. > :24:00.talk about self-determination of the Kashmir people but under current

:24:01. > :24:04.occupation, without lasting local representation, can we truly expect

:24:05. > :24:10.to reach a position where the will and wishes of a people in this

:24:11. > :24:15.region would be heard and truly listen to? Prizes like this are met

:24:16. > :24:18.with excessive force, only further entrenching differences. -- up

:24:19. > :24:23.roses. This has played out many times since the 1990s. The bodies of

:24:24. > :24:26.swellings are counted and the people who survive and struggle to live in

:24:27. > :24:29.the region become further embittered.

:24:30. > :24:39.It is in the interest of Pakistan and India to improve the relations

:24:40. > :24:43.for the safety and security of prosperity of people who live in the

:24:44. > :24:47.region. The situation requires strong international leadership, not

:24:48. > :24:51.to force them into a solution, but to invest in the foundation that can

:24:52. > :24:53.lead to peace and the self-determination of the Kashmir

:24:54. > :24:59.people and I call on this Government to take the lead. We have a

:25:00. > :25:06.responsibility, 70 years in the making, we have as a nation have an

:25:07. > :25:11.interest invested -- vested interested in both countries. We are

:25:12. > :25:14.linked to both countries, we have had a major impact on their history

:25:15. > :25:21.and we must help them create that future for them. We have signed a

:25:22. > :25:26.massive trade deal with India, the China/Pakistani economic corridor

:25:27. > :25:29.will impact on the wider world. There is an international

:25:30. > :25:38.perspective and it is in our benefit. I spent my teenage years in

:25:39. > :25:43.what is known as Kashmir. The area's name means free - free to go to the

:25:44. > :25:47.shops, free to play and to go into the street, free to visit, and go

:25:48. > :25:55.where I want to go and my family do. And my family continue to be in the

:25:56. > :26:02.area and enjoy the freedoms. But the children in occupied Kashmir do not

:26:03. > :26:06.have them freedoms. A son might not be returning with his eye sight,

:26:07. > :26:12.that is 70% of his abilities as a human being. I know that from my

:26:13. > :26:18.experience in working in disabilities, a young girl may not

:26:19. > :26:26.return, but if he does, has she been raped? And we cannot and must not

:26:27. > :26:31.abdicate our responsibility. It is shameful for this Government if it

:26:32. > :26:35.continues in its inaction. I would ask members to support this motion

:26:36. > :26:43.and call on the Government to use its climate to help much Pakistan

:26:44. > :26:48.and India in a more prosperous relationship. Our lives begin to end

:26:49. > :26:52.the day we become sigh sent about things that -- silent about things

:26:53. > :27:01.that matter. This House cannot remain silent on the the issue any

:27:02. > :27:06.more. It is a tragedy that we are still here debating this issue,

:27:07. > :27:13.although grateful to members for securing the debate. Here we are are

:27:14. > :27:20.again. It is a couple of years since we had a substantive discussion, as

:27:21. > :27:25.we have been hearing, 70 years on since that petitioning --

:27:26. > :27:29.partitioning of this region, where of course the UK, Britain, had an

:27:30. > :27:34.integral responsibility and had a role. It is for that reason that we

:27:35. > :27:38.can't wash our hands of this problem and ignore it. The UK does have a

:27:39. > :27:41.long-standing duty and responsibility to take an interest

:27:42. > :27:48.and to be involved in this particular issue. And we have heard

:27:49. > :27:52.of course about the United Nations resolution and the call for a

:27:53. > :27:57.plebiscite to give that opportunity to solve the issue and yet nothing

:27:58. > :28:02.really moves forward. The frustration is palpable, I know from

:28:03. > :28:05.many of my honourable friends in the chamber, we don't relish having to

:28:06. > :28:09.come here and talk about this issue time and time again and yet it is

:28:10. > :28:16.something we find ourselves having to raise and so you know decades on

:28:17. > :28:22.we find ourselves talking about some of the tragedies that are occurring.

:28:23. > :28:28.Yes, there are occasionally brief spells of calm that are then broken

:28:29. > :28:34.by rising tensions, by conflict, by the flare up of issues, often

:28:35. > :28:41.because there are funerals which breach curfews that are put in place

:28:42. > :28:44.and those in turn escalate conflict in a heavily militarised part of the

:28:45. > :28:49.world and on and on the cycle goes. We have heard very much from members

:28:50. > :28:54.opposite about the effect of pellet guns, which is something I'm glad

:28:55. > :29:00.many members have raised and the need for us to ensure that the UK

:29:01. > :29:07.Government makes it clear that there are appropriate and inappropriate

:29:08. > :29:11.ways to address civil issues when they arise on the streets. There are

:29:12. > :29:14.a lot of different organisations, parts of community, that have a role

:29:15. > :29:19.to play. I believe that the UK does have a role to play here. The United

:29:20. > :29:24.Nations clearly has a role here and it can't and it shouldn't be parked

:29:25. > :29:28.away, often because there is little media coverage. There is not much

:29:29. > :29:34.information about what is happening in this part of world. And clearly

:29:35. > :29:38.India and Pakistan don't just have a role, they have a responsibility to

:29:39. > :29:41.do more to move away from the heat and the conflict in this situation

:29:42. > :29:45.and find a better path to the future. And I also believe, because

:29:46. > :29:50.we can see this in other conflicts zones around the world, that perhaps

:29:51. > :29:56.a wider regional approach to finding peaceful solutions is also something

:29:57. > :30:01.that should be explored. Often where there are bilateral disa agreements

:30:02. > :30:06.between two countries in one region, trying to finds ways of saving face

:30:07. > :30:10.on either side is incredibly difficult, as we have seen in the

:30:11. > :30:14.middle east. There are arguments about involving other parties and

:30:15. > :30:21.nations in that part of world to think about ways of breaking this

:30:22. > :30:27.particular deadlock. I also think the Kashmiri community want to have

:30:28. > :30:33.a role and do have a role, their a very vocal community in our country

:30:34. > :30:40.and I think it is, as I have said to many groups that exist to press or

:30:41. > :30:43.the attention to human rights and press for self-determination, it

:30:44. > :30:48.would help if they can all co-ordinate, work together and also

:30:49. > :30:51.communicate with members of Parliament in the new ways that we

:30:52. > :30:55.need to operate. We are not getting information about what is happening

:30:56. > :31:00.in that part of world. I think there is much more that could be done,

:31:01. > :31:06.even on social media to make sure the wider community, policy makers

:31:07. > :31:09.are aware of some of the issues. And I do think that effective

:31:10. > :31:14.co-ordination would make a difference. So I would say we need

:31:15. > :31:19.to start to think laterally about how to crack through this problem,

:31:20. > :31:22.so we are not here again in two years time. What are the mechanisms

:31:23. > :31:30.that could be open to try and find peaceful solutions? Well, I I think

:31:31. > :31:37.that you the UK also has a role and should think about promoting

:31:38. > :31:41.peace-keeping, encouraging governments to demilitarise and stop

:31:42. > :31:49.the attacks and they should promote peace-building, which means

:31:50. > :31:56.reversing some of the destructive steps that have been taking and they

:31:57. > :32:04.should searching for negotiated solutions. Leaders Leaders in

:32:05. > :32:08.Pakistan and India have to dial back on aggression and not be provoked by

:32:09. > :32:11.individual attacks. Although there is difficult if they feel

:32:12. > :32:16.governmental forces are alleged to be behind certain attacks. That

:32:17. > :32:21.normalisation of situation in Kashmir is essential, so we can open

:32:22. > :32:26.the routes and the channels for dialogue. We have to, as my

:32:27. > :32:34.honourable friend for Bradford east and Birmingham said, go back to the

:32:35. > :32:37.rule of law as a matter of urgency. To have accountability for the

:32:38. > :32:43.police and the armed forces, where that has been lacking in many ways.

:32:44. > :32:47.So I would call on the minister and the UK Government. I know there is a

:32:48. > :32:52.long-standing position in terms of Foreign Office's policy on this. But

:32:53. > :32:55.to think about ways of promoting conflict resolution, promoting

:32:56. > :33:01.confidence-building measures between the different sides. For example, a

:33:02. > :33:05.summit to learn the lessons of peace-making tactics that have been,

:33:06. > :33:09.where the UK have been involved in times past. We know in Northern

:33:10. > :33:16.Ireland it was a long-standing conflict and took a long time to get

:33:17. > :33:19.people around the same table. There is expertise the UK Government has

:33:20. > :33:24.and should find ways of applying it. I also think it is worth thinking

:33:25. > :33:30.about economic development. And the role that economic development and

:33:31. > :33:33.regeneration could have in reciprocation for dialogue we might

:33:34. > :33:37.want to have. That has worked in other situations as well. So there

:33:38. > :33:43.are many people who want the take part in the debate and I would want

:33:44. > :33:47.to thank those from the Pakistani Kashmiri community who have made

:33:48. > :33:53.strong representations to me. I'm going to be hosting on Friday 24th

:33:54. > :33:57.February a Nottingham round table on the issue and try to bring together

:33:58. > :34:01.as independently as I can, all those with an interest in the issue to try

:34:02. > :34:04.and drill down into what the community is looking for and the

:34:05. > :34:09.solutions that might be viable and to make those representations to the

:34:10. > :34:12.Government. But I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to make that

:34:13. > :34:16.point to the minister today. Thank you and it is a pleasure to follow

:34:17. > :34:23.my honourable friend for Nottingham East. Particularly because I thought

:34:24. > :34:29.it was a very solution-focussed speech. I would like to thank the

:34:30. > :34:36.member for Bury North for securing and leading in terms of securing the

:34:37. > :34:46.debate. I first visited Kashmir in 2011 after I was elected to serve

:34:47. > :34:50.Rochdale. Kashmir was just as beautiful and the people as

:34:51. > :34:54.welcoming as I told. But I knew this part of this world was fraught with

:34:55. > :34:58.fear and tension. I heard from people on the ground about the human

:34:59. > :35:03.rights abuses regularly carried out by the Indian army and since I have

:35:04. > :35:07.kept a close eye on the situation. The brutality of the Indian army was

:35:08. > :35:11.seen in full force last summer when unrest broke out in the region. The

:35:12. > :35:16.use of live ammunition and pellet guns again public sector crowds was

:35:17. > :35:20.entirely disproportionate and has been described by a number of

:35:21. > :35:23.speakers today. I thank hi colleagues particularly for having

:35:24. > :35:30.already raised those issues with our government. Tensions are still

:35:31. > :35:35.simmering, manifesting in small clashes that could in the future

:35:36. > :35:41.escalate. In such circumstances, Britain does have to step up to the

:35:42. > :35:46.mark. We all know the old pottery barn rule, you break it, with well

:35:47. > :35:54.then you have to fibgts. Thanks to -- you have to fibgts. Thanks to

:35:55. > :35:58.imperial history there are plenty of broken pots across the world. It is

:35:59. > :36:02.not acceptable for the British Government to wash their hands,

:36:03. > :36:08.something I believe they're doing. And while I accept Pakistan and

:36:09. > :36:14.India must at the front of striking a deal, there is no reason why

:36:15. > :36:17.Britain can't play a more active role in bringing people around the

:36:18. > :36:20.table and monitoring the human rights situation. It is my

:36:21. > :36:28.understanding that during the British Prime Minister's meeting

:36:29. > :36:32.with Indian premier, the issue of human rights abuses was not even

:36:33. > :36:38.raised. Would the minister be able to confirm this when he wraps up? If

:36:39. > :36:42.it's true what does it say about Britain's place in the world?

:36:43. > :36:48.Earlier this week, the Prime Minister outlined her vision for a

:36:49. > :36:51.global Britain. A Britain which was confident across the world. I

:36:52. > :36:57.welcome this ambitious vision for our country. But I have my

:36:58. > :37:01.reservations. I believe that this new outlook cannot solely be without

:37:02. > :37:05.forging trade links across the world. The promotion of human rights

:37:06. > :37:12.and liberal democratic values must be at the heart of British foreign

:37:13. > :37:17.policy. If we are truly to wish to be a positive global player. I worry

:37:18. > :37:21.in the coming years human rights will be pushed further down the

:37:22. > :37:26.agenda as the Government seeks to secure Britain's economic future. We

:37:27. > :37:30.have a expanded team working op international trade, who I'm sure

:37:31. > :37:34.will be keen to strike some sort of free trade deal with India. I wonder

:37:35. > :37:42.what this will mean for the people of Kashmir. It is perfectly

:37:43. > :37:45.reasonable for a Prime Minister to raise sensitive issues like human

:37:46. > :37:50.rights behind closed doors, as many Prime Ministers have done with their

:37:51. > :37:53.counter parts in India previously. However, I'm not confident that

:37:54. > :38:01.going forward this will happen. I would like the Government to provide

:38:02. > :38:06.me and Britain's Kashmirry population with reassurances that

:38:07. > :38:11.settling Kashmir will remain a part of the UK's dialogue with India and

:38:12. > :38:17.Pakistan. Lastly, I would like too add that this not just about India

:38:18. > :38:22.and Pakistan finding a solution, Kashmiries must also be part of any

:38:23. > :38:27.future dialogue. Britain should promote their voice, a voice which

:38:28. > :38:31.is too often shut out. And while we talk about human rights today. It is

:38:32. > :38:36.important to remember the most important right for a peoples is the

:38:37. > :38:39.right to self-determination. Therefore, I believe that it is

:38:40. > :38:42.incumbent on the British Government to help the people of Kashmir

:38:43. > :38:53.determine their own future. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for for

:38:54. > :38:57.the member for Bury East for bringing the debate today. The

:38:58. > :39:03.political situation in Kashmir continues to be a long-drawn-out

:39:04. > :39:07.conflict, ranging back to 1947. Since then there there have been

:39:08. > :39:12.surges in violence leading to the deaths of hundreds of civilians in

:39:13. > :39:17.the area. Attempts a dialogue have been made by the Pakistani and

:39:18. > :39:22.Indian Governments, ultimately these have amounted to nothing substantial

:39:23. > :39:29.for the people of Kashmir and their calls for self-determination.

:39:30. > :39:46.brutal 2010 has now been overshadowed by the summer of 2016

:39:47. > :39:51.when we witnessed a tragic series of events which appeared to constitute

:39:52. > :39:57.a violation of human rights. The killing of a rebel leader in

:39:58. > :40:02.Kashmir, revered by the Pakistani population and known as a terrorist

:40:03. > :40:06.by the Indian state, saw hundreds of Kashmiri citizens flood to the

:40:07. > :40:12.streets in protest against the killing, such events are triggers

:40:13. > :40:17.undoubtably in this long-standing conflict, often perpetrated by a

:40:18. > :40:21.feeling of frustration and anger by the Kashmiri community who have

:40:22. > :40:26.often found themselves restricted by curfews, limits to their freedom of

:40:27. > :40:32.speech and at times humiliated at the hands of Indian officials. The

:40:33. > :40:37.protesters threw stones when confronted by the Indian military.

:40:38. > :40:41.The retaliation by the Indian military was staggering, they used

:40:42. > :40:46.pellet guns in an attempt to disperse the crowds, although the

:40:47. > :40:50.use of live bullets and CS gas also were noticeably present. By the end

:40:51. > :40:53.of August, after six weeks of violence, 6000 civilians were

:40:54. > :41:00.injured, almost 1000 of those suffered injuries to their eyes.

:41:01. > :41:05.Pellet guns are seen as non-lethal crowd control weapons. But they have

:41:06. > :41:12.devastating and long-lasting consequences. In a report, the

:41:13. > :41:17.international network of civil liberties organisations and doctors

:41:18. > :41:22.for human rights made clear, I quote, pellet rounds cause and

:41:23. > :41:28.indiscriminate spray of an emission spreading widely and cannot be aimed

:41:29. > :41:33.and are likely to be legal at close range and likely to be inaccurate

:41:34. > :41:39.and indiscriminate at longer ranges. Most countries prohibit the use of

:41:40. > :41:44.metal shots as excessively dangerous but several countries, such as

:41:45. > :41:48.Bahrain and Egypt, use it regularly. It appears we should add India to

:41:49. > :41:52.this list of states too. India is the largest democracy in the world

:41:53. > :41:56.with a thriving economy and increasingly educated population. I

:41:57. > :42:00.am therefore appalled by their attitude to the use of such methods

:42:01. > :42:08.which are causing such damaging and at times life-threatening effects.

:42:09. > :42:10.In the long term, such methods increase feelings of anger and

:42:11. > :42:14.resentment within the Kashmiri community that no doubt will spring

:42:15. > :42:20.over when something is triggers a reaction. I understand from an

:42:21. > :42:26.answer by the baroness in the other House on the 23rd of December, in

:42:27. > :42:29.response a question put forward on the 14th of December, that she

:42:30. > :42:35.assures us the government of India is reviewing the use of pellet guns

:42:36. > :42:38.in Kashmir. In a recent report it is suggested India will in future swap

:42:39. > :42:44.this non-lethal method for alternative mechanisms. Whilst this

:42:45. > :42:46.is welcomed, India must make a click it not used pellet guns in the

:42:47. > :42:54.future and that any alternative crowd control mechanisms must be as

:42:55. > :42:57.proportionately -- must be used proportionately and be in line with

:42:58. > :43:02.human rights laws. India and Pakistan are both friends of the UK

:43:03. > :43:05.but we should use this friendship to drive forward a policy of dialogue

:43:06. > :43:10.between them on the issue of Kashmir. Respect for human rights,

:43:11. > :43:16.freedom of speech and freedom of expression also. I strongly condemn

:43:17. > :43:21.the violence in Kashmir, in particular the use of pellet guns,

:43:22. > :43:25.and whilst we welcome the review into the review of that, it may fall

:43:26. > :43:29.short of a clear commitment. As a member of the UN Security Council, I

:43:30. > :43:34.really urge the Government to raise the matter of the human rights

:43:35. > :43:37.abuses at the UN and to call for an investigation into the abuses.

:43:38. > :43:44.Certainly, the contribution by my honourable friend, a wider look at

:43:45. > :43:49.the human rights throughout the world, a review of that, that would

:43:50. > :43:53.be welcome. It is in everybody pulls in interest that dialogue continues

:43:54. > :43:57.on the issue of Kashmir said that a long sustainable solution is found

:43:58. > :44:04.for the conflict that has already gone on for too long -- it is in

:44:05. > :44:07.everybody's interests. The number of members we have got to want to catch

:44:08. > :44:11.my eye for this debate and the following debate it means we will

:44:12. > :44:21.drop the unofficial limit, there is no official limit, to 5-6 minutes,

:44:22. > :44:27.and then we will come in on time. If members can keep to that, it would

:44:28. > :44:31.be great. Thank you. I rise to support the motion to congratulate

:44:32. > :44:37.the honourable member for Bury North for securing this debate. Like many

:44:38. > :44:42.members, I represent a richly diverse constituency whose people

:44:43. > :44:46.and that origins, more than 120 countries. Those whose family roots

:44:47. > :44:51.are in Kashmir on one of the largest groups and one of the very many

:44:52. > :44:57.advantages of having so many diaspora communities within my

:44:58. > :45:02.constituency is that when we see issues around the world, we feel

:45:03. > :45:11.them back home. For example, when the devastating earthquake hit

:45:12. > :45:17.northern Pakistan in 2005, killing 90,000 people, leaving 3.5 million

:45:18. > :45:20.homeless and destroying infrastructure, we felt the pain in

:45:21. > :45:24.Sheffield. Through friends and neighbours whose families were in

:45:25. > :45:30.the region. The city responded. As well as offering immediate support,

:45:31. > :45:32.we set about raising funds for rebuilding infrastructure and

:45:33. > :45:39.through those efforts, seven years later, Sheffield College opened on a

:45:40. > :45:43.wooded hill overlooking the city above, a community at the heart of

:45:44. > :45:47.the earthquake that had lost 10% of its population. I pay tribute to my

:45:48. > :45:53.constituents and all of those who led the fundraising. Just as the

:45:54. > :45:58.link through the diaspora community gives us a special responsibility

:45:59. > :46:02.for natural disasters beyond our control, so it gives us a special

:46:03. > :46:07.responsibility for those which we have shaped and which we can

:46:08. > :46:13.influence. The UK clearly has a special responsibility dating back

:46:14. > :46:16.to our occupation of Jammu and Kashmir and the terms of our

:46:17. > :46:22.withdrawal after independence in 1947. When we see the sort of events

:46:23. > :46:27.that have taken place since last July, it should focus us all once

:46:28. > :46:32.more on seeking a settlement to one of the most long-standing post-war

:46:33. > :46:37.grievances. The basis for the settlement should be, as others have

:46:38. > :46:43.mentioned, UN Security Council resolution 47, agreed almost 70

:46:44. > :46:46.years ago, in April, 1948, calling for a plebiscite for the people of

:46:47. > :46:51.Kashmir to determine their own future. The wave of protests and

:46:52. > :46:59.their suppression in the Kashmir valley following the killing have

:47:00. > :47:02.been a tragedy for the people of Indian occupied Kashmir and should

:47:03. > :47:07.have prompted a concerted effort by the international community for a

:47:08. > :47:12.political solution. In response to a wave of strikes and rallies,

:47:13. > :47:15.protests and demonstrations, the Indian authorities have responded

:47:16. > :47:19.and many members have made this point with what looks to all the

:47:20. > :47:25.world like disproportionate repression. In November, last year,

:47:26. > :47:30.the BBC estimated that over 85 protesters had been killed.

:47:31. > :47:36.Thousands more had been injured. As many members have cited, particular

:47:37. > :47:40.concern has been the use of pellet guns by the Indian authorities.

:47:41. > :47:48.These are guns firing shrapnel directly at protesters. As the BBC

:47:49. > :47:52.reported, despite Indian soldiers supposedly being required by their

:47:53. > :47:57.own standard operating procedure to target only the legs and only in

:47:58. > :48:10.extremely volatile conditions, honourable members have described

:48:11. > :48:16.the nature of these weapons, and 90% of those injured received injuries

:48:17. > :48:19.above the waist, horrifying injuries, and again, as the BBC

:48:20. > :48:24.reported, many children blinded. This simply cannot go on. I hope the

:48:25. > :48:30.Government will make the strongest possible representations to the

:48:31. > :48:35.Indian authorities and support that Amnesty International called for a

:48:36. > :48:40.ban on the use of pellet guns. We need to go further. We need to

:48:41. > :48:47.actively seek a political solution. When I tabled questions to the

:48:48. > :48:54.Minister, and I have high regard for the Minister, back in September, he

:48:55. > :48:57.confirmed a Government position and I quote, the long-standing position

:48:58. > :49:04.of the UK is for India and Pakistan to find a solution in Kashmir. And

:49:05. > :49:08.of course, that is right. But it is not enough. In other situations

:49:09. > :49:12.around the world, where we see the sort of injustice we see in Kashmir,

:49:13. > :49:17.and we see it exploding in the way it has recently, the international

:49:18. > :49:23.community seeks to bring pressure to bear on the protagonists to seek a

:49:24. > :49:26.solution and to engage with all the key stakeholders in making that

:49:27. > :49:32.solution real. That is why my questions in September were asking,

:49:33. > :49:37.what the UK Government was doing within the United Nations and indeed

:49:38. > :49:42.within the Commonwealth to seek action. Frankly, the replies from

:49:43. > :49:49.the Minister, that he had had no discussions and, and I quote again,

:49:50. > :49:53.that the UK does not intend to support an international conference

:49:54. > :49:57.or a plebiscite, in line with UN Security Council resolution 47, it

:49:58. > :50:04.is simply unacceptable. In conclusion, I would ask him to think

:50:05. > :50:07.again and just as the UK had played its part in creating this problem,

:50:08. > :50:14.let us play our part in finding a solution. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:50:15. > :50:18.thank you for calling me in this debate, I would also like to thank

:50:19. > :50:21.the honourable gentleman for Bury North for bringing this debate to

:50:22. > :50:24.the House. I would like to congratulate my honourable friend

:50:25. > :50:29.for her detailed and passionate speech and my honourable friend from

:50:30. > :50:32.Birmingham West for the determination and clarity with which

:50:33. > :50:36.she gave her speech. Like many others in this place, I have been

:50:37. > :50:39.horrified by the ongoing violence in Kashmir and I know that trying to

:50:40. > :50:42.get peace for the region is of enormous importance to a great

:50:43. > :50:51.number of my constituents. I remember when the honourable member

:50:52. > :50:54.for Islington South came to speak to a packed out hole in our Pakistani

:50:55. > :51:04.Kashmiri welfare Association centre, -- Hall. We heard heartbreaking

:51:05. > :51:07.stories from my constituents, and anxiety intensified by frustration

:51:08. > :51:12.at the seeming lack of political will to resolve the crisis. If the

:51:13. > :51:16.Minister had been in the hall that afternoon, he would have been left

:51:17. > :51:20.in no doubt at all about the urgency of the situation. I have also had a

:51:21. > :51:25.number of constituents contact me in the lead up to this debate,

:51:26. > :51:28.stressing their desire that peace be agreed in the short-term and

:51:29. > :51:32.self-determination for the people of Kashmir be negotiated in the long

:51:33. > :51:37.term. As we know, the long-standing position of the UK on Kashmir is

:51:38. > :51:42.that it is for India and Pakistan to find a genuine political solution,

:51:43. > :51:46.whilst respecting the wishes of the Kashmiri people. The Prime Minister

:51:47. > :51:51.has previously stated it is not for the UK to prescribe solutions or act

:51:52. > :51:56.as mediator. That said, we cannot ignore the urgency of the situation,

:51:57. > :52:01.there are two nuclear powers with a volatile history of mistrust. As the

:52:02. > :52:05.Minister will be aware under the partition plan of the Indian

:52:06. > :52:09.independence act 1947, Kashmir was free to see seat either India or

:52:10. > :52:15.Pakistan. Time does not permit me to give the full history but we cannot

:52:16. > :52:19.avoid the fact there is a very clear link back to the complex and the

:52:20. > :52:25.decision made here. We have a moral duty to encourage Pakistan and India

:52:26. > :52:29.to commence peaceful negotiations to establish a long-term solution on

:52:30. > :52:33.the future governance of Kashmir, based on the rights of the Kashmiri

:52:34. > :52:39.people to determine their own future in accordance with the provisions of

:52:40. > :52:44.the UN security resolutions. So far, we have not done enough. The Prime

:52:45. > :52:47.Minister had the unique opportunity to raise human rights abuses in

:52:48. > :52:54.Kashmir when she met with Prime Minister Modi in November. We have

:52:55. > :52:57.have heard stated in the house the Parliamentary question that the

:52:58. > :53:01.Prime Minister discussed Kashmir with the Indian Prime Minister but

:53:02. > :53:05.sadly we have no information about what was said or agreed. We know

:53:06. > :53:11.that the Prime Minister engaged in a charm offensive to secure a

:53:12. > :53:16.lucrative trade deal with India. My concern, Madam Deputy Speaker, is

:53:17. > :53:19.the Prime Minister's anxiety to secure a trade deal may have

:53:20. > :53:23.diverted for comments on Kashmir. With that in mind, I would be very

:53:24. > :53:28.raised with her counterparts and the expand on what the Prime Minister

:53:29. > :53:31.raised with her counterparts and the responses she received. Did the

:53:32. > :53:36.Prime Minister, for instance, raised the issue of arbitrary and excessive

:53:37. > :53:39.force carried out by the Indian security forces? Can the British

:53:40. > :53:43.Kashmiri people be assured their Prime Minister took meaningful steps

:53:44. > :53:47.to leave Prime Minister Modi in no doubt that the conflict is

:53:48. > :53:50.completely unacceptable? Amnesty International have stated this

:53:51. > :53:55.excessive use of violence has violated international standards and

:53:56. > :53:59.worsened existing human rights crisis in the region. The world has

:54:00. > :54:05.witnessed in this flare-up of violence since July, 2016, it has

:54:06. > :54:09.left us shocked. A devastating loss of civilian life and injuries

:54:10. > :54:14.counted in their thousands, closures of universities and schools, general

:54:15. > :54:18.strikes, curfews, the closure of media outlets and mobile phone

:54:19. > :54:22.services. As we have discussed in this House, the use of pellet guns

:54:23. > :54:27.by the authorities has left people blind with severe injuries and lives

:54:28. > :54:31.have been lost. I wholeheartedly support Amnesty International's call

:54:32. > :54:35.for a ban on pellet guns being used against stonethrowing protesters.

:54:36. > :54:43.The injuries pellet guns believe are devastating.

:54:44. > :54:52.A girl who had dreams of being a doctor was hit by a bullet. She

:54:53. > :54:58.wants to know what she did wrong. A constituent told me of the state of

:54:59. > :55:01.anxiety his family live in. Some are lucky enough to have made it out to

:55:02. > :55:06.Pakistan. Others are left living in fear. The women and girls in his

:55:07. > :55:12.family don't leave the house for fear they will be raped or attacked.

:55:13. > :55:19.The men folk have to tell family where they are going, in case they

:55:20. > :55:24.don't return. According to Asia Watch rape by police and the armed

:55:25. > :55:31.militia is commonplace in Kashmir and the victims are generally poor

:55:32. > :55:37.women and those who are vulnerable and low caste. Vicious acts that go

:55:38. > :55:40.unpunished the British Kashmiri community have been at pains to

:55:41. > :55:46.stress they want a peaceful solution. The lives of their friends

:55:47. > :55:51.and family rely on it. Going forward from this debate, we must continue

:55:52. > :55:56.to call on all parties to encage in meaning -- engage in meaningful

:55:57. > :56:03.dialogue to break the cycle of violence on the breach of human

:56:04. > :56:10.rights and seek a lasting solution to the issue. The wishes of Kashmiri

:56:11. > :56:15.people must be at the forefront of those negotiations, because the

:56:16. > :56:20.world is watching. It is a pleasure to speak in this important debate.

:56:21. > :56:24.Can I congratulate my honourable friend for Batley on a fine speech

:56:25. > :56:30.and I think she is a great addition to this House. So much has been said

:56:31. > :56:37.which I could have said and doesn't need to be repeated. I commend so

:56:38. > :56:45.many of these serious, important speeches that have been made. As

:56:46. > :56:49.with many members, I represent several thousand Kashmir

:56:50. > :56:54.constituents. Many came long ago, but they have not forgotten the

:56:55. > :57:00.painful experience that continue. These experiences have become worse

:57:01. > :57:06.and we must stand against the violence. The government must be

:57:07. > :57:09.pressed to do more in international forums to secure an end to this. I

:57:10. > :57:13.have spoken before on this and have in the past been with other members

:57:14. > :57:18.to the Foreign Office making representations to ministers to

:57:19. > :57:23.press them to use their influence to help eliminate the human rights

:57:24. > :57:31.violations as a first step to restol ving the -- resolving the dispute. I

:57:32. > :57:35.have visited Kashmir to a town where many of my constituents come from. I

:57:36. > :57:44.have been too the region myself and it is not just a distant continent.

:57:45. > :57:47.Both inds and Pakistan are nuclear powers and Kashmir is the prime

:57:48. > :57:51.source of tension between the country and it is of the greatest

:57:52. > :57:55.concern to the wider world that we find a solution to the Kashmir

:57:56. > :58:00.dispute to make the world a safer place. I have had many meetings in

:58:01. > :58:04.Luton with local Kashmiri constituents, while all want freedom

:58:05. > :58:10.for the people there, there is a range of views about the future of

:58:11. > :58:14.Kashmir. Some believe it should become part of Pakistan. No doubt

:58:15. > :58:19.others will want it to remain part of India. Others want Kashmir to be

:58:20. > :58:24.an independent state. The concept that unites all is that they should

:58:25. > :58:29.decide their future for themselves. They should have self-determine

:58:30. > :58:32.nation. I support the Kashmiris in that aspiration. They should

:58:33. > :58:43.determine their own future and we should support them. Thank you.

:58:44. > :58:46.According to Reuters at least 80 citizens were killed by Indian

:58:47. > :58:53.forces between July and December last year. Many were in protests.

:58:54. > :58:57.The protest began on the 8th July after the death of Burhan Wani, the

:58:58. > :59:02.leader of the Kashmiri independence group. The authorities imposed a

:59:03. > :59:12.curfew, disabled the internet access and mobile phone networks, but this

:59:13. > :59:18.didn't prevent an escalation. Tear gas and live ammunition was used to

:59:19. > :59:23.disperse crowds. There has been expensive contributions about the

:59:24. > :59:27.use of pellet guns to disperse protesters which have the effect of

:59:28. > :59:33.blinding those they hit. And at close range, but hundreds of

:59:34. > :59:39.projectiles the, these weapons fire, can carry enough energy to penetrate

:59:40. > :59:44.skin and organs and can therefore be fatal if they are fired at much of

:59:45. > :59:49.the body. A very large number of the pellet injuries have been to the

:59:50. > :59:55.face, with 570 people seeking treatment for eye injuries as a

:59:56. > :00:00.result of pellet shootings at the main hospital in the area by 8th

:00:01. > :00:07.November. According to figures from the hospital, more eye injuries,

:00:08. > :00:10.more eye surgeries were performed in three days in July than throughout

:00:11. > :00:16.the whole of the previous three years. That cannot be right. Many

:00:17. > :00:23.children were among those who have lost their sight as a result of such

:00:24. > :00:30.tactics. In the case of a 13-year-old, the pellets penetrated

:00:31. > :00:36.deeply enough to be embedded in his lungs and heart. In that another

:00:37. > :00:43.person also 13, the pellet injurives to his head and chest were severe

:00:44. > :00:46.enough to kill him. At a minimum, this evidence that, this is evidence

:00:47. > :00:52.that insufficient care is being taken to ensure that civilians are

:00:53. > :00:58.not seriously injured by security force tactics. But it is also

:00:59. > :01:03.suggestive of something more serious, that the security forces

:01:04. > :01:09.are intentionally using tactics that in effect blind civilians to

:01:10. > :01:13.discourage protests against civilian rule, against Indian rule. According

:01:14. > :01:19.to a spokesperson for the state government the use of pellet guns is

:01:20. > :01:25.a necessary evil. But it is not. And it will never be necessary for

:01:26. > :01:31.security forces to blind children to ensure the restoration of order.

:01:32. > :01:34.Both India and Pakistan have been responsible for deaths from army

:01:35. > :01:43.shelling and military raids across the line of control in recent months

:01:44. > :01:47.in a cycle of retribution that claims civil lives and those of

:01:48. > :01:51.soldiers. There are accusations that Pakistan has used the unrest of

:01:52. > :01:57.ordinary people as a cover for renewed attempts by proxy groups to

:01:58. > :02:01.enter and further destabilise the bored regions under -- border

:02:02. > :02:05.regions under Indian control. I'm sure the minister is troubled by

:02:06. > :02:14.recent reports of like these. But equally disturbing is what goes on

:02:15. > :02:20.behind the scenes. Amnesty cites the example of a prominent Kashmiri

:02:21. > :02:25.human rights defender who was arrested repeatedly and held without

:02:26. > :02:37.process for 75 days last year. Eventually, his detention was ruled

:02:38. > :02:40.to barbitrary and his release was secured after international pressure

:02:41. > :02:44.in November. I'm pleased that the minister's in his place and I beg

:02:45. > :02:54.him to hear the international pressure does have effect. This is

:02:55. > :03:01.part of a pattern that human rights organisations have been detailing

:03:02. > :03:06.for years, plainly in amnesty's 2015 publication. Their view is the

:03:07. > :03:11.situation this report describes remains largely unchanged. Due

:03:12. > :03:16.process is still frequently denied both to those accused of militant

:03:17. > :03:21.activity or support and to those victims of state security abuses and

:03:22. > :03:27.their family and communities who never see any progress towards

:03:28. > :03:33.justice and peace. As we continue to work on these issues, we must ensure

:03:34. > :03:41.that humanitarian concerns remain at the forefront of our minds. It is

:03:42. > :03:45.clear this conflict has gone on too long and many individual stories

:03:46. > :03:50.that we have heard are nothing new. Much of the conflict goes on away

:03:51. > :03:56.from the eyes of western world. But I'm hoping that this debate will

:03:57. > :04:00.begin to change things and I hope the government will renew efforts to

:04:01. > :04:11.create opportunities for dialogue between India and Pakistan to

:04:12. > :04:20.discourage escalation and to facilitate where it can a permanent

:04:21. > :04:25.settlement that gives Kashmiris a genuine voice. To quote Nelson

:04:26. > :04:31.Mandela, it is easy to break down and destroy, the real heroes are

:04:32. > :04:36.those that make peace and build. Thank you, can I welcome this debate

:04:37. > :04:44.and I hope that on the subject of Kashmir our Government, which is now

:04:45. > :04:46.in post Brexit world an outward-looking Government, which

:04:47. > :04:51.wants to develop its foreign policy may want to use Kashmir as a good

:04:52. > :04:56.example, where it can use the new clout it has got in a way perhaps

:04:57. > :05:01.that it has failed to do I'm afraid to say in relation to Israel and

:05:02. > :05:10.Palestine, where I had assurances from the Foreign Secretary last week

:05:11. > :05:15.that the Government was involved in all fora for seeking a solution.

:05:16. > :05:20.What members when they heard the Foreign Secretary state that didn't

:05:21. > :05:24.realise, was he meant the government was not going to send any ministers

:05:25. > :05:29.to the Paris conference. I think this is going to be a subject of a

:05:30. > :05:37.future debate and it would be inappropriate to focus on in this

:05:38. > :05:43.debate. But we have heard many contributions from members with

:05:44. > :05:48.significant Kashmiri communities and have run through the history and set

:05:49. > :05:53.out some distressing the descriptions of injuries and deaths

:05:54. > :05:56.that have occurred in Kashmir and the human rights abuses they have

:05:57. > :06:02.suffered. I'm not go to repeat those. What I want to do in the few

:06:03. > :06:08.minutes available is to put some questions to the minister and hope

:06:09. > :06:14.he will be able to either off his own bat or through inspiration from

:06:15. > :06:18.people who assist him, provide answers. Firstly the first question

:06:19. > :06:22.is does the minister accept that this is an international conflict,

:06:23. > :06:27.which requires the international community to assist in its

:06:28. > :06:32.resolution and particularly the United Kingdom. Does he support the

:06:33. > :06:36.idea of an international investigation into the human rights

:06:37. > :06:41.abuses committed by the Indian army or any other alleged perpetrators.

:06:42. > :06:49.Does he accept that as long as the Indian army presence is on the scale

:06:50. > :06:52.that it is at, in terms of representation throughout towns in

:06:53. > :06:57.Kashmir that these allegations are going to resurface regularly. Does

:06:58. > :07:02.the UK Government challenge the Indian Government on the immunity

:07:03. > :07:08.that is granted to its army, does his Government challenge the use of

:07:09. > :07:12.pellets that many members have referred to in the debate? And also

:07:13. > :07:18.does the UK Government regularly raise the issue of human rights in

:07:19. > :07:21.Kashmir? My friend Lord Hussein in the House of Lords in December asked

:07:22. > :07:27.whether the Prime Minister had specifically raised the issue of

:07:28. > :07:31.human rights abuses in Kashmir in her discussions with Prime Minister

:07:32. > :07:35.Modi, but he did not receive an answer to that question. Finally in

:07:36. > :07:40.terms of questions, what exactly is the role of China? We haven't heard

:07:41. > :07:48.much about China I think raised by other members. Clearly they are one

:07:49. > :07:54.of occupying powers, albeit in the more sparsely occupied area. What is

:07:55. > :08:00.their role in this conflict? In relation to solutions, I think the

:08:01. > :08:04.member for Rochdale suggested that the member for Nottingham east had

:08:05. > :08:08.put forward a solution-focussed speech. I hope to put to the

:08:09. > :08:12.minister a possible way forward, that is first that the line of

:08:13. > :08:18.control needs to be open so that family ties can be re-established as

:08:19. > :08:24.well as cultural ties. Perhaps follow bed I the formation of a

:08:25. > :08:38.Kashmir forum to negotiate the powers that could be ceded by

:08:39. > :08:43.Pakistan and India Government and perhaps a treaty on power provision

:08:44. > :08:48.and water and for the defence needs of the countries. That might be a

:08:49. > :08:53.way forward. I hope the minister can set out what the government's

:08:54. > :08:56.approach will be. Because as other members have stated, Kashmir is

:08:57. > :09:00.another long-standing dispute in which the UK played a central role

:09:01. > :09:05.in creating the conditions which led to the conflict and must now play an

:09:06. > :09:11.equally critical role in resolving it. We hust hear from the minister

:09:12. > :09:14.in his response how he sees our role developing, what our role in the

:09:15. > :09:20.peace process will be and how peace in Kashmir will be secured.

:09:21. > :09:29.Thank you. It is a pleasure to follow the speech from the

:09:30. > :09:32.honourable member and I too want to congratulate the honourable member

:09:33. > :09:37.for Bury North for securing the debate. I am proud to have been a

:09:38. > :09:42.member of the all-party group for 12 years and to have been a secretary

:09:43. > :09:47.of the group in the past. I want to pay tribute in particular to the

:09:48. > :09:50.speech as we have heard from my honourable friends from Birmingham

:09:51. > :09:55.and Bradford who I thought spoke with particular power. When I look

:09:56. > :09:59.back at the 12 years in which I have campaigned on this issue in this

:10:00. > :10:03.House, I'm afraid it is the lack of progress I have to mark on, not the

:10:04. > :10:06.progress I think we can celebrate. Of course there has been some

:10:07. > :10:14.advances when it comes to controls at the border, the matter of trade,

:10:15. > :10:19.the issue of transport, but the truth is that today we are not a

:10:20. > :10:24.step closer to honouring the basic requirement set out in the UN

:10:25. > :10:27.mandate all those years ago. To grant the right, not the privilege,

:10:28. > :10:36.the right of self-determination to the people of Kashmir. Over the last

:10:37. > :10:39.12 years, there have been calls for free movement of human rights

:10:40. > :10:44.observers and the media in the area of Kashmir and my goodness, the

:10:45. > :10:50.events of the last six months have underlined why we were so right to

:10:51. > :10:56.call for that. The abuses perpetrated, pellet guns, rape,

:10:57. > :11:01.chilli powder, they have maimed, scarred and destroyed lives. Not

:11:02. > :11:08.just this generation, but the memories of the abuse will cascade

:11:09. > :11:14.down generations to come, not making the solution or the arrival of peace

:11:15. > :11:21.any faster, it will make it tougher and slower. We have to ask ourselves

:11:22. > :11:24.why it is that we learnt so much about the abuse is not from the

:11:25. > :11:31.mainstream media but from social media. I want to pay to do to those

:11:32. > :11:35.who had the courage to post news about the atrocities so that the

:11:36. > :11:40.world and those in this House could not look away. We could see it on

:11:41. > :11:44.our phones, on our screens. The BBC has at least started to produce some

:11:45. > :11:48.coverage but it is of no comparison to the kind of coverage we used to

:11:49. > :11:53.see from South Africa when I was a teenager or Israel and Palestine

:11:54. > :11:59.week in, week out. We have to call on our media organisations to give

:12:00. > :12:05.us the benefit of transparency so that the world is forced to look at

:12:06. > :12:09.what is happening. I think the moral arguments for a solution are pretty

:12:10. > :12:15.clear and we heard them well articulated this afternoon. My

:12:16. > :12:21.honourable friend began to allude to some of the geopolitical demands for

:12:22. > :12:26.a solution too. China's new Silk Road strategy will see 4-6 trillion

:12:27. > :12:32.dollars of investment poured into the business of integrating the

:12:33. > :12:38.landmass. Yesterday we celebrated in Dagenham the arrival of the first

:12:39. > :12:42.train direct from China. This great continent is changing. Relations

:12:43. > :12:46.between China and Pakistan are changing. If we get this right,

:12:47. > :12:50.there is a tremendous economic prize ahead. The principal beneficiaries

:12:51. > :12:55.of the prize could be India and Pakistan. But not if they continued

:12:56. > :12:59.to pour money and arms and troops into the most heavily defended and

:13:00. > :13:04.dangerous border on earth. That is why both sides now surely have an

:13:05. > :13:07.interest in a solution and why we have a moral obligation in this

:13:08. > :13:14.House to help push the solution forward. I have been part of a group

:13:15. > :13:18.of people in this House, we have argued for change for 12 years. It

:13:19. > :13:22.is time to have some honesty and candour about whether that political

:13:23. > :13:26.strategy will produce any more change, any further advance in the

:13:27. > :13:31.12 years ahead. I have to say, I do not think it will. I think we now

:13:32. > :13:36.have to look in this House to other Parliaments around the world, in

:13:37. > :13:45.Europe, in the developing world, in the US, and begin to think

:13:46. > :13:50.international alliance of how can we construct an

:13:51. > :13:53.We know about the limitations of the We know about the limitations of the

:13:54. > :13:54.UN, it has not made progress in the UN, it has not made progress in the

:13:55. > :13:56.last 50, 60 years, do we believe it last 50, 60 years, do we believe it

:13:57. > :13:59.will make more progress in the years ahead? Let us take direct action

:14:00. > :14:02.now, not on our own but in alliance with others who believe in the same

:14:03. > :14:07.some basic changes that all of us some basic changes that all of us

:14:08. > :14:11.want to see, the repeal of the special forces act which is in clear

:14:12. > :14:16.breach of the UN obligation that India has signed up to, a ban on

:14:17. > :14:20.pellet guns, like many have called for this afternoon, free movement of

:14:21. > :14:27.human rights groups through Kashmir, an investigation into the 2200 mass

:14:28. > :14:31.graves that we know of and self-determination for the people of

:14:32. > :14:36.Kashmir. We have to make a choice in this House, about whether we stand

:14:37. > :14:40.on the sidelines of this debate as impotent bystanders or whether we

:14:41. > :14:44.are going to be protagonists for change, just as we were in the case

:14:45. > :14:50.of South Africa, just as we were in the case of Burma. One of my

:14:51. > :14:53.constituents put it to me like this. The people of Jammu and Kashmir seek

:14:54. > :14:57.a peaceful resolution, they want their country to be a bridge of

:14:58. > :15:00.peace and not a bone of contention between India and Pakistan. We

:15:01. > :15:07.should support this motion and support that basic instinct. Thank

:15:08. > :15:13.you. It is a real privilege to follow that incredibly articulate

:15:14. > :15:17.speech from my honourable friend. I think this has been a really

:15:18. > :15:22.excellent debate this afternoon, can I pay tribute to all the

:15:23. > :15:24.contributions? Particularly my colleagues from neighbouring

:15:25. > :15:30.constituencies, we will have significant Kashmiri communities in

:15:31. > :15:33.our constituencies and we share those communities and I thank them

:15:34. > :15:38.for their contributions today as well. I want to congratulate the

:15:39. > :15:42.honourable member for Bury North on securing this debate but also for

:15:43. > :15:44.the broader contribution of the Kashmir all-party Parliamentary

:15:45. > :15:49.group which has sought to keep Kashmir on the political agenda in

:15:50. > :15:53.the UK. Often with varying degrees of success. That is despite its best

:15:54. > :15:57.efforts. In preparation for this debate today, I watched the

:15:58. > :16:02.recording of the last debate on Kashmir which was secured by the

:16:03. > :16:07.then Liberal Democrat MP for Bradford East, David ward, in 2014.

:16:08. > :16:11.That was also a backbench business debate and it is testament to the

:16:12. > :16:15.committee that they are able to find time to debate the issues that are

:16:16. > :16:17.so often overlooked in the day-to-day business of this House. I

:16:18. > :16:23.want to thank them again for allowing time for this debate. Many

:16:24. > :16:28.of my constituents in Halifax are of Kashmiri heritage and Halifax will

:16:29. > :16:32.always keep a close eye on what is happening in that part of the world.

:16:33. > :16:36.Before Christmas I met with a number of local residents at the mosque in

:16:37. > :16:40.my constituency for a constructive discussion about the deterioration

:16:41. > :16:43.in the situation in Kashmir and also to consider what practical steps we

:16:44. > :16:48.honourable member has just made this honourable member has just made this

:16:49. > :16:51.point but I raised one of the challenges for me having access to

:16:52. > :16:56.the latest information directly from the region. We know this is both a

:16:57. > :17:00.consequence of the restrictions in place on the ground and I also

:17:01. > :17:04.worried that because it is a conflict that has gone unresolved

:17:05. > :17:07.for so long, it is overshadowed and overlooked and unreported by the

:17:08. > :17:10.mainstream media and that is a challenge for all of us to try to

:17:11. > :17:13.get it back on the media platforms. Given the Foreign Office in a

:17:14. > :17:18.written response to my honourable friend said we currently have

:17:19. > :17:21.limited access to the Kashmir valley and this makes it challenging to

:17:22. > :17:29.obtain accurate information on the situation. You will appreciate that.

:17:30. > :17:33.The families in Halifax and other communities in the UK, the problem

:17:34. > :17:36.for them is not that they cannot access information, as information

:17:37. > :17:41.comes directly from their and friends still in Kashmir, their

:17:42. > :17:45.challenge is the sense of helplessness on hearing just how

:17:46. > :17:49.desperate the situation has become, feeling unable to protect loved ones

:17:50. > :17:53.and unable to bring about the civil protection and stability we need to

:17:54. > :17:56.keep people safe and to work towards our long-term sustainable solution

:17:57. > :18:00.to the conflict. We discussed a number of things at that meeting in

:18:01. > :18:04.Halifax and one of the things we discussed was the role constituents

:18:05. > :18:09.might be able to play in securing a debate in the future. Whilst we are

:18:10. > :18:12.all frustrated with how long this has gone unresolved, it is just the

:18:13. > :18:17.little bit of progress we are able to have this debate in the main

:18:18. > :18:27.Chamber today. In the debate in 2014, in the opening speech, it was

:18:28. > :18:29.outlined the conflict is long-standing and complex will stop

:18:30. > :18:33.one of the longest-running territorial disputes in the world

:18:34. > :18:36.between two nuclear powers. It is astonishing to think the world does

:18:37. > :18:40.not pay more attention to this issue. We have failed to make

:18:41. > :18:45.progress as the debate in 2014 and we know that the situation has

:18:46. > :18:48.deteriorated. As the motion outlines, we have grown increasingly

:18:49. > :18:52.alarmed at the recent escalation in violence on the Indian side on the

:18:53. > :18:57.line of control and depressingly it has gone backwards, I would say. I

:18:58. > :19:00.could spend a long time going through the incident room and

:19:01. > :19:04.timeline as to how we have got to where we are today but a number of

:19:05. > :19:11.members have done that -- through the incidents. I am fairly confident

:19:12. > :19:15.the Minister will tell us it is the UK's long-standing position it is

:19:16. > :19:18.for India and Pakistan to find a lasting resolution to the situation

:19:19. > :19:22.taking into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people and it is not

:19:23. > :19:27.for the UK to prescribe a solution or act as a media, which I have

:19:28. > :19:32.heard one of occasions in responses to both written and oral questions.

:19:33. > :19:37.-- act as a mediator. I appreciate the complexity and I do not believe

:19:38. > :19:43.anyone is asking the Government to prescribe this illusion. Must I

:19:44. > :19:50.believe that -- what I believe in self-determination for Kashmir, that

:19:51. > :19:55.is the only way to bring about a long-term solution. We do have a

:19:56. > :19:59.responsibility to seek to put a stop to the human rights abuses and that

:20:00. > :20:02.is the work I am asking the Government to undertake today. When

:20:03. > :20:08.tensions dramatically escalated last summer, we saw a sharp rise in the

:20:09. > :20:11.use of pellet firing shotguns by the Indian forces to control crowds. I

:20:12. > :20:16.will not go through the arguments for that particular horror in the

:20:17. > :20:22.damaged the pellet guns have done as honourable members have already done

:20:23. > :20:26.it so articulately. I would like to refer to a report produced by

:20:27. > :20:32.Doctors Without Borders, MSF, published back in 2008. The research

:20:33. > :20:35.was undertaken a number of years ago but it is the most comprehensive

:20:36. > :20:39.attempt I can find of mapping the health requirements of Kashmiri

:20:40. > :20:44.people living in close proximity to the line of control in terms of

:20:45. > :20:48.physical and mental well-being. I found it a harrowing read and given

:20:49. > :20:51.that the situation has only deteriorated since 2008, I thought

:20:52. > :20:57.it was worth sharing some of the findings. The research conducted

:20:58. > :21:01.involved household surveys in person in two districts in the Indian

:21:02. > :21:06.controlled region of Kashmir. 510 interviews were completed and of

:21:07. > :21:10.those staggering 86% reported frequent confrontations with

:21:11. > :21:15.violence including exposure to crossfire. 67% said they had

:21:16. > :21:20.witnessed torture with 34% saying they had self experience of forced

:21:21. > :21:24.labour. The report found violence affects nearly everybody living in

:21:25. > :21:28.Kashmir. 40% said they had witnessed somebody being killed with

:21:29. > :21:34.horrifying 13% saying they had witnessed rape. Inevitably, MSF

:21:35. > :21:39.concluded that not only were the requirements of the region high in

:21:40. > :21:43.terms of physical injuries but the prevalence of insecurity and

:21:44. > :21:46.violence inevitably had substantial implications for mental health. A

:21:47. > :21:52.third of those interviewed had contemplated suicide. A third of the

:21:53. > :21:58.Beeb are interviewed as part of the study. Over a third had symptoms of

:21:59. > :22:03.psychological distress. Amongst women, it was higher. The prospects

:22:04. > :22:07.of any economic generation are hopeless in no circumstances in the

:22:08. > :22:18.face of such conflict. 53% of those interviewed in the study had no

:22:19. > :22:24.schooling and 24% had high or total dependence on charities. The

:22:25. > :22:28.sustainable development goal high on the world's agenda, can I ask the

:22:29. > :22:35.Minister to work with his colleagues to explore all of the ways we can

:22:36. > :22:39.improve the situation? We cannot make progress for education, health,

:22:40. > :22:44.to alleviate poverty or support economic recovery unless the

:22:45. > :22:47.violence stops. Pakistan and India are world players and have

:22:48. > :22:51.obligations under the sustainable development goals. How can we ensure

:22:52. > :22:55.Kashmir does not get left behind? As one of the current chairs for fair

:22:56. > :22:59.trade, one of the things we discussed about meeting in Halifax

:23:00. > :23:06.is the role fair trade might be able to play in terms of the direct link

:23:07. > :23:08.my local town can have in supporting little independent businesses in

:23:09. > :23:18.Kashmir that might support economic recovery. I can see it -- I can see

:23:19. > :23:24.I am being encouraged to wind-up. It is always a pleasure to speak on any

:23:25. > :23:26.issue in relation to human rights. Can I congratulate the honourable

:23:27. > :23:32.gentleman for setting the scene so very well? Some of the most

:23:33. > :23:34.incredible speeches made on the half of all of the right honourable

:23:35. > :23:40.members here on an issue that clearly fires of them in relation to

:23:41. > :23:44.what they want to speak about and I will add my contribution, if I can.

:23:45. > :23:54.It is well known in the House but I am a passionate speaker about human

:23:55. > :23:56.rights. Human rights in India provide fundamental rights which

:23:57. > :24:02.should include freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Very clearly

:24:03. > :24:05.on many occasions they fall short. Despite every individual having this

:24:06. > :24:10.right in India, Kashmir often experiences violence with the Indian

:24:11. > :24:17.Army and various separatist militant groups have been accused and held

:24:18. > :24:20.accountable for severe human rights abuses against civilians. They have

:24:21. > :24:24.not been held accountable enough in relation to some of the things they

:24:25. > :24:30.have carried out and that worries us considerably. I believe we have a

:24:31. > :24:33.role to play in this and we should use any diplomatic influence we have

:24:34. > :24:38.to bring about change and ask for change and that is part of the role

:24:39. > :24:42.we have in this place. Human rights are often defined as principles that

:24:43. > :24:53.any human is entitled to, individuals targeted with

:24:54. > :24:57.violence... As, the targets are early charged and that has to be

:24:58. > :25:00.addressed as well. That's the Minister can give us an idea of how

:25:01. > :25:02.that can be addressed. How can we make those carrying out the attacks

:25:03. > :25:10.accountable? It shows the government have little

:25:11. > :25:18.interest in speaking out on atrocities. They have a Nelson's eye

:25:19. > :25:27.and don't see what is happening. Certain minorities are often exposed

:25:28. > :25:33.to d to human rights issues and groups such as Christians are often

:25:34. > :25:36.targeted. In India Christian minorities assert that the

:25:37. > :25:43.authorities don't do enough to stop the violence against them, which is

:25:44. > :25:51.often perpetrated by Hindu nationals. They harass Christians to

:25:52. > :25:56.stop conversions which they see as a threat to the Hindu faith and those

:25:57. > :26:01.things have concerned me. I have spoken about that before I and I do

:26:02. > :26:06.likewise today. The human rights policy does state the freedom of

:26:07. > :26:10.religion and asked Christians if they feel free to share their faith.

:26:11. > :26:15.They don't and we have to make that clear. When asked that question they

:26:16. > :26:24.feel threatened and fearle and they need help. In 2016 the BBC reported

:26:25. > :26:37.violent actions against civilians. That included the arson of churches,

:26:38. > :26:46.forced re-conversions and the rape of Nunns and Christian young girls.

:26:47. > :26:51.Others have referred to the attacks on women and girls. As well as

:26:52. > :26:57.murder, murder takes place against Christian priests and other key

:26:58. > :27:01.figures. I believe we cannot sit by and watch and not at least attempt

:27:02. > :27:05.within this House and the democratic process and within our areas of

:27:06. > :27:10.influence to see that murders carried out with no redress, there

:27:11. > :27:15.must be an and there has to be investigations, accountability for

:27:16. > :27:18.the atrocities to the murders to the genocidal Compiegne against --

:27:19. > :27:26.campaign against Christians in Kashmir. In 2008 the anti-Christian

:27:27. > :27:32.riots killed at least 50 Christian people. And some 730 houses and 95

:27:33. > :27:37.Christian churches. These are not just stats. These are the facts of

:27:38. > :27:41.life for many people and what they have been subjected to. Stones have

:27:42. > :27:45.been thrown but people's window and nothing was done. The police turned

:27:46. > :27:53.a blind eye as if they didn't see it. Violent attacks to minority

:27:54. > :28:00.groups have been an ongoing issue. We must play in a part in this, and

:28:01. > :28:10.it is often said but it does make it less an important one, evil triumphs

:28:11. > :28:17.with good people do nothing and we must do something. We can influence

:28:18. > :28:23.that through our common wealth ties and we must speak up for those who

:28:24. > :28:29.can't speak for themselves and we must be a voice for those who look

:28:30. > :28:37.to us to speak on their behalf and these innocent people have faced

:28:38. > :28:44.murder and forced d disappearance. India and Pakistan have called

:28:45. > :28:52.curfews to refrain from violence and without any success. Senior figures

:28:53. > :28:56.are encountered an escalation of tension and that is a fear we have

:28:57. > :28:59.that things could get worse. The steps that have been taken are not

:29:00. > :29:07.enough and I believe we must do more. We must I believe speak for

:29:08. > :29:14.all those whose cries ring today in our ears and we are bound to respond

:29:15. > :29:17.in this democratic process, in the greatest seat of democracy, we have

:29:18. > :29:22.the greatest opportunity to speak for those people and let's make the

:29:23. > :29:26.voice clear as it has been from all parties, we look to our minister

:29:27. > :29:30.today for him to respond and to outline action that will bring about

:29:31. > :29:33.change and change now and we can change and we have to change the

:29:34. > :29:38.policies that are taking place in Kashmir. Those people need us to

:29:39. > :29:45.speak for them and we are duty bound I believe to answer. Thank you.

:29:46. > :29:49.Thank you. Can I congratulate the member for Bury North for securing

:29:50. > :29:53.this important debate and we have heard some magnificent

:29:54. > :29:58.contributions. Some from those of us who have roots in the area and from

:29:59. > :30:02.a personal view and others who are speaking strongly and with

:30:03. > :30:06.determination and passion on behalf of our constituents. I hope that the

:30:07. > :30:11.feeling in the chamber is instructive to the minister in terms

:30:12. > :30:16.of direction that the members of the chamber would like the Foreign

:30:17. > :30:20.Office to take in terms of future relations with India and Pakistan.

:30:21. > :30:26.The SNP support this motion, which calls on the Government to encourage

:30:27. > :30:30.Pakistan and India to commerce peace negotiations to establish a

:30:31. > :30:37.long-term solution to Kashmir. It is vital that we use the influence we

:30:38. > :30:40.have as friends of both nations to encourage people in authorities to

:30:41. > :30:46.work together to calm tensions and reduce violence. In particular, the

:30:47. > :30:53.Indian authorities the should be encouraged to engage in genuine and

:30:54. > :30:59.constructive dialogue with moderate factions in Indian-administered

:31:00. > :31:04.Kashmir and help such groups over armed militants. We support the

:31:05. > :31:11.right of people to secure their own future and call on all parties to

:31:12. > :31:17.recognise that right that exists and we urge the UK Government and

:31:18. > :31:23.international community to support the UN Secretary General in his

:31:24. > :31:27.efforts at mediation and serving as an honest broker between inds and

:31:28. > :31:34.Pakistan. We understand this is a difficult and long-lasting issue and

:31:35. > :31:40.Kashmir has been a disputed territory since 1947. In the last

:31:41. > :31:46.year we have seen a significant and regrettable escalation in violence.

:31:47. > :31:58.There was considerable unrest in Kashmir throughout 2016,

:31:59. > :32:03.particularly in Indian administered area when a militant was killed. In

:32:04. > :32:11.the violence over a hundred people were killed and 11,000 injured. A

:32:12. > :32:16.great many sustaining serious eye injuries when fired upon by the

:32:17. > :32:20.police with pellet guns. Human rights Watch have called for Indian

:32:21. > :32:27.authorities to launch an impartial investigation into the use of lethal

:32:28. > :32:31.force and pellet guns and on the 6th December physicians issues a report

:32:32. > :32:37.accusing Indian police and paramilitary forces of using

:32:38. > :32:42.excessive force against protesters and block medical care. The member

:32:43. > :32:47.for Bradford made an excellent point about human rights. Wherever human

:32:48. > :32:55.rights abuse occurs, we must call it out. But it must feel to many that

:32:56. > :33:00.we prioritise the human rights of others. This must not and will not

:33:01. > :33:05.continue. We urge the Indian forces to exert greater caution and

:33:06. > :33:10.restraint in their methods of crowd control, including by discontinuing

:33:11. > :33:15.the practice of firing pellet dpuns. The authorities must allow full and

:33:16. > :33:22.unrestricted access to people so medical care can be administered and

:33:23. > :33:26.above all facilitate treatment by specialised eye doctors to the many

:33:27. > :33:34.people injured by these guns. At the same time, we urge organisers of

:33:35. > :33:44.protest to deter supports from engaging in violence. Although the

:33:45. > :33:49.violence has reduced, local leaders have promised that there is more to

:33:50. > :33:53.come. Of concern are the continuing clashes between Indian and Pakistani

:33:54. > :34:00.forces that have been ongoing for some time and there have been

:34:01. > :34:04.exchanges of fire along the line of control, including the Indian

:34:05. > :34:12.artillery shelling that reportedly hit a school bus, killing the driver

:34:13. > :34:14.and wounding several children and in January, India security forces

:34:15. > :34:21.killed three militants in an operation described as a continued

:34:22. > :34:25.act of state terrorism. This escalation in military action is of

:34:26. > :34:29.great concern and it would be wise for both governments, both

:34:30. > :34:35.governments to reflect on the actions and tone down the

:34:36. > :34:37.increasingly violent rhetoric. There have been increasing suggestions

:34:38. > :34:43.that the Indian Government is considering using water as a means

:34:44. > :34:50.of applying pressure on Pakistan. Tension should not affect other

:34:51. > :34:55.aspects of the relationship. Pakistan depends on the six rivers

:34:56. > :35:03.of the area, which flow through India before reaching Pakistan. The

:35:04. > :35:10.rivers provide water and livelihoods to three quarters of Pakistan's

:35:11. > :35:16.population. More than 95% of the irrigated land is in the area and

:35:17. > :35:21.farming amounts to a quarter of Pakistan's GDP. In 1960 the

:35:22. > :35:26.countries signed a treaty to guarantee Pakistan's access to water

:35:27. > :35:33.and provided for inspections and arbitration processes. The treaty is

:35:34. > :35:36.regarded as the most successful example of an international

:35:37. > :35:44.agreement on water and has survived three wars. However, India's

:35:45. > :35:51.threatening to revise the treaty or moderate the access to water. This

:35:52. > :35:55.is a deeply regrettable affect which could have dangerous implications

:35:56. > :36:00.for the region. The India Prime Minister held a review of the treaty

:36:01. > :36:06.in September, outlining provisions which India could use to apply

:36:07. > :36:14.pressure on Pakistan and stated, blood and water cannot flow

:36:15. > :36:17.simultaneously. So the foreign policy advisor responded, stating

:36:18. > :36:24.that the revocation of the treaty would be considered an act of war.

:36:25. > :36:27.On 12th December the world bank halted two arbitration processes,

:36:28. > :36:32.citing concerns that current tension could endanger the treaty. We urge

:36:33. > :36:40.all parties to uphold the water treaty in letter and in spirit. And

:36:41. > :36:43.not to use vital access to water as a means of diplomatic leverage. That

:36:44. > :36:48.is just full wrong. Within the scope of the treaty, any changes should be

:36:49. > :36:52.agreed through the proper channels and only after very careful

:36:53. > :36:57.consideration of the humanitarian and economic consequences to the

:36:58. > :37:02.people in the area. We encourage the UK Government and the international

:37:03. > :37:09.community to provide all necessary support to the world bank in

:37:10. > :37:13.itarbitration of treaty and encourage the countries to continue

:37:14. > :37:19.to implement the treaty provisions, regardless of the tensions caused by

:37:20. > :37:25.other developments. In conclusion, the SNP supports the motion and the

:37:26. > :37:32.hugely constructive debate. The Government must continue to

:37:33. > :37:35.encourage Pakistan and India to start peace negotiations, the

:37:36. > :37:39.Kashmiry people should be able to determine their own future in

:37:40. > :37:45.accordance with the provisions of the UN solution. It is in even's

:37:46. > :37:52.interest that long-term solution can be found on the future governance of

:37:53. > :37:58.the beautiful place that is Kashmir. Thank you. I would like to start by

:37:59. > :38:03.thanking the member for Bury North for securing this important debate.

:38:04. > :38:08.And to the backbench business committee for granting it. The

:38:09. > :38:12.member for Bury North spoke on behalf of his constituents of

:38:13. > :38:17.Pakistani and Kashmiri origin. I would like to thank all members from

:38:18. > :38:21.across the House for contributing to an excellent debate which has

:38:22. > :38:26.highlighted many serious matters of human rights abuses, the

:38:27. > :38:30.intensification of violence, while advocating the need for conflict

:38:31. > :38:37.resolution instead of mill Friday escalation and the ability --

:38:38. > :38:43.instead of military escalation. And we have heard some powerful speeches

:38:44. > :38:52.on human rights abuses and civil liberties. Notably from the members

:38:53. > :38:58.for Birmingham, Harrow east and Sheffield and West Ham, and Halifax

:38:59. > :39:02.and Strang fords. And the member for Wealden called, questioned the

:39:03. > :39:05.political will of UN for a peaceful resolution. The right to

:39:06. > :39:12.self-determine nation was mentioned by among others the members for

:39:13. > :39:17.Bradford east and calls for the Government to work to settle the

:39:18. > :39:20.situation were made by the members for Bradford West, Nottingham east,

:39:21. > :39:31.Rochdale and Batley and Spen. Our historic responsibility to

:39:32. > :39:35.Kashmir was highlighted by the honourable members for Wycombe and

:39:36. > :39:39.Sheffield Central. The role of China which has not been referred to a

:39:40. > :39:44.great deal in this debate was highlighted at its chilly by the

:39:45. > :39:53.honourable members for Carshalton and four Chilcot highlighted

:39:54. > :39:58.particularly. The Kashmiri people have seen conflict perpetually on

:39:59. > :40:03.the rise over the last year. It is the worst spate of violence in the

:40:04. > :40:09.region since 2010 one 110 people lost their lives. And inside and

:40:10. > :40:14.outside of this house, I and alongside many others, have already

:40:15. > :40:17.called for a ban on pellet guns alongside tear gas and live

:40:18. > :40:23.ammunition in civilian areas. Could the Minister update us on the

:40:24. > :40:26.current situation in the Jammu region, in particular that of the

:40:27. > :40:31.police and the Muslim community? 400 people have been detained while

:40:32. > :40:41.Indian security forces under the regressive public safety act which

:40:42. > :40:44.allows preventative detention and violates international jury process

:40:45. > :40:51.standards in Kashmir. Human rights watch and in Amnesty International

:40:52. > :40:56.have called it a lawless law and they have called for the Indian

:40:57. > :41:00.authorities to end the use of the public safety act. People should be

:41:01. > :41:07.properly charged and given further aisles. Does the Minister agree with

:41:08. > :41:11.the NGOs' assessment of the public safety act? The region have seen the

:41:12. > :41:15.introduction and implementation of numerous curfews over this

:41:16. > :41:22.disruptive period, the longest of which lasted 53 days. Mobile phone

:41:23. > :41:26.services have been down and media blackouts have been imposed leading

:41:27. > :41:30.to numerous protests, including a series of general strikes, the

:41:31. > :41:34.closure of schools and universities, and regular public rallies against

:41:35. > :41:38.Indian rule. This of course is not a one-sided affair. We would also

:41:39. > :41:43.encourage Prime Minister Sharif and his government to condemn and begin

:41:44. > :41:48.immediately to take action against abusive militant groups operating in

:41:49. > :41:52.Jammu and Kashmir and other parts of India. This would be an important

:41:53. > :41:56.move to help extinguish the conflict in the region. With the UK

:41:57. > :42:01.Government also take a look at its future military aid and sales,

:42:02. > :42:06.programmes of military cooperation with Pakistan, on the condition that

:42:07. > :42:10.it begins to take significant steps to address attacks by militant

:42:11. > :42:16.groups in the region? Another matter of concern is the nuclear weapons

:42:17. > :42:21.arms race going on between the two countries which has escalated in the

:42:22. > :42:28.past 12 months. This is also intertwined with the relationship

:42:29. > :42:31.either side with China or the new United States administration. Could

:42:32. > :42:36.the Government update the House if it has raised any issue with by the

:42:37. > :42:43.government on the nuclear arsenal investment in testing? The unrest

:42:44. > :42:47.has led to the tragic loss of over 80 lives in violent clashes since

:42:48. > :42:52.the beginning of July, including the life of a police officer and 19

:42:53. > :42:57.soldiers killed in a militant attack on a security base. Sadly, the

:42:58. > :43:02.violence continues to this day with approximately 4000 people wounded in

:43:03. > :43:06.this seven-month period. The line of control is at the heart of the

:43:07. > :43:10.divisional tension, with both countries cranking up the levels of

:43:11. > :43:15.rhetoric and military action on the border. I would like to ask the

:43:16. > :43:18.Government what specifically it is doing to counter this ongoing

:43:19. > :43:23.retaliation, given the history of the line of control. Even as

:43:24. > :43:29.recently as 2015, it has seen disastrous costs were Indian and

:43:30. > :43:34.Pakistani border guards traded gunfire leaving nine civilians dead

:43:35. > :43:40.and another 62 injured. As a symbolic destination for her fast

:43:41. > :43:46.first trip abroad as Prime Minister, we welcomed the visit to India,

:43:47. > :43:51.given our country's historic ties. But I would like to ask the

:43:52. > :43:51.honourable members today, what honourable members today, what

:43:52. > :43:57.discussions has she had with Prime discussions has she had with Prime

:43:58. > :44:01.Minister Modi? The visit was at the height of the current troubles.

:44:02. > :44:05.Could the Minister tell us what progress has come through such

:44:06. > :44:08.diplomatic talks? I think the Minister would find support for such

:44:09. > :44:15.a question among his own backbenchers, particularly notably

:44:16. > :44:18.the honourable member. Could he inform us whether the Foreign

:44:19. > :44:22.Secretary ever discussed the letter sent to him just prior to the Prime

:44:23. > :44:27.Minister's visit by my right honourable friend the Shadow Foreign

:44:28. > :44:32.Secretary, raising the issues of human rights and civil liberties in

:44:33. > :44:37.Kashmir? On the issue of Kashmir, it should be stated for the record that

:44:38. > :44:41.Labour party policy on this matter has not changed, it is the same as

:44:42. > :44:46.it was in government. We must allow all parties who are directly

:44:47. > :44:51.involved to determine the future through peaceful dialogue and

:44:52. > :44:55.cooperation. We also acknowledge the importance of the work of

:44:56. > :44:58.international organisations, particularly the UN, and their

:44:59. > :45:02.efforts to negotiate with all parties and member states involved

:45:03. > :45:06.to bring India and Pakistan to the negotiating table. We continue to in

:45:07. > :45:14.courage both India and Pakistan to seek a lasting resolution in

:45:15. > :45:16.accordance with the provision of the UN Security Council resolutions

:45:17. > :45:22.which take into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people. We believe

:45:23. > :45:26.their wishes are a fundamental aspect of the success of the process

:45:27. > :45:32.and to obtaining peace in the region. While in government, Labour,

:45:33. > :45:35.through the conflict prevention programme, funded a number of

:45:36. > :45:40.projects designed to support efforts to facilitate dialogue which

:45:41. > :45:44.addressed the causes and impact of conflict and propose to create

:45:45. > :45:50.improvements in the quality of life experienced by Kashmiris. In 2010,

:45:51. > :45:54.the first opinion poll to be conducted on both sides of the line

:45:55. > :46:01.of control since the UN brokered ceasefire in 1949 was taken. It was

:46:02. > :46:06.found that despite the complexity of the political situation, there are

:46:07. > :46:11.other clear concerns for the Kashmiri people, namely, 81% say

:46:12. > :46:17.unemployment is the most significant problem facing Kashmiris. Love and

:46:18. > :46:22.corruption, poor economic element and human rights abuses all polled

:46:23. > :46:28.highly on a list of concerns that require government corruption.

:46:29. > :46:35.Kashmiri citizens wish for an end to the indecision, the dispute, the

:46:36. > :46:41.division, so that they can have access to economic prosperity, good

:46:42. > :46:44.education and vital health care. These should be the main points of

:46:45. > :46:51.consideration of the dialogue and action is going forward in 2017. The

:46:52. > :46:57.need for a rapid response to the situation in Kashmir is now upon us.

:46:58. > :47:01.I hope that the whole house and the Minister will agree with me that we

:47:02. > :47:06.must ensure that the UN are involved at every stage of the process. The

:47:07. > :47:10.new UN Secretary General, Antonio Gutierrez, on his first day in

:47:11. > :47:16.office alleged to make 2017 the year of peace. I hope these words can

:47:17. > :47:21.lead to a rapprochement and then reach a long-term resolution between

:47:22. > :47:25.the two countries step-by-step. The first step forward must be accepting

:47:26. > :47:29.the role of humanitarian law and that the starting point for

:47:30. > :47:37.negotiations between the bordering nations must be to uphold the UN

:47:38. > :47:43.universal declaration of human rights, ensuring equal and in a

:47:44. > :47:53.viewable rights took all Kashmiri people -- equal and inalienable

:47:54. > :47:55.rights. We have had a long debate, a very detailed discussion and some

:47:56. > :48:01.extremely powerful speeches from both sides and I'm very grateful to

:48:02. > :48:06.all members who have contributed today. I also congratulate my

:48:07. > :48:08.honourable friend, the member for Bury North, for securing this debate

:48:09. > :48:13.and I would like to thank the members of the Kashmir all-party

:48:14. > :48:15.Parliamentary group for their commitment to the issue and for

:48:16. > :48:23.welcoming me to their meeting in December. As the member for Bury

:48:24. > :48:29.North stated in his speech, this is a region with a long and complex

:48:30. > :48:32.history. Of course, the situation in Kashmir continues to attract

:48:33. > :48:36.significant public attention and Parliamentary interest in the UK, as

:48:37. > :48:40.we have seen in this debate. Not least because of the thousands of

:48:41. > :48:44.British nationals with connections to Kashmir. It has been estimated

:48:45. > :48:49.that two thirds of British Pakistanis hail from Pakistan

:48:50. > :48:55.administered Kashmir. Before I respond to the very many points

:48:56. > :48:59.raised by members, I would like to set out briefly the Government's

:49:00. > :49:06.position on Kashmir and on India - Pakistan relations. A number of

:49:07. > :49:09.members set out what they believe to be the Government's position and I

:49:10. > :49:14.can confirm that it is indeed consistent, it has been the

:49:15. > :49:21.long-standing position of successive governments of all hues and the

:49:22. > :49:27.honourable lady has also stated that the opposition's position on this

:49:28. > :49:31.issue has not changed. India and Pakistan are both long-standing and

:49:32. > :49:35.important friends of the UK. We have significant links to both countries

:49:36. > :49:38.through Indian and Pakistani desperate communities. I have many

:49:39. > :49:46.in my own constituency who live in the UK. -- diaspora communities. We

:49:47. > :49:49.have strong bilateral links which we hope to make stronger. The

:49:50. > :49:52.long-standing position of the UK is that it can either prescribe a

:49:53. > :49:58.solution to the situation in Kashmir nor act as a mediator will stop it

:49:59. > :50:01.is for the governments of India and Pakistan to find a lasting

:50:02. > :50:07.resolution, taking into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people -- act

:50:08. > :50:09.as a mediator. We encourage both sides to maintain a positive

:50:10. > :50:13.dialogue in the discussions we have with both India and Pakistan but the

:50:14. > :50:21.pace and scope of this is for them to determine. Let me take the issues

:50:22. > :50:27.as they have come up in this debate. Firstly, the discussion on the

:50:28. > :50:31.violence across the line of control. I agree, in order to maintain

:50:32. > :50:34.regional stability and prosperity, a strong relationship between India

:50:35. > :50:39.and Pakistan is absolutely crucial and I am pleased that the escalation

:50:40. > :50:43.of incidents along the line of control have shown some signs of

:50:44. > :50:46.decreasing in the run-up to Christmas, but I know there have

:50:47. > :50:51.been recent reports of renewed activity this year. A number of

:50:52. > :50:57.members talked about the issue of combating terrorism. Following the

:50:58. > :51:02.attack on the Indian military base last September, the Foreign

:51:03. > :51:06.Secretary Mariah -- my right honourable friend, condemned all

:51:07. > :51:11.forms of terrorism in the region, stating UK stands shoulder to

:51:12. > :51:15.shoulder with India in the fight against terrorism and in bringing

:51:16. > :51:17.the perpetrators to justice. He reiterated that message during a

:51:18. > :51:24.visit to Pakistan shortly before Christmas. Following her visit to

:51:25. > :51:27.India last November, the Prime Minister and Prime Minister Modi

:51:28. > :51:31.released a joint statement in which they reiterated their strong

:51:32. > :51:36.commitment to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations.

:51:37. > :51:41.They also stressed there can be no justification for acts of terror on

:51:42. > :51:45.any grounds. The UK and Pakistan are of course also committed to working

:51:46. > :51:49.together to combat the terrorist threat and extremism that sustains

:51:50. > :51:53.it in line with human rights. The UK readily highlights to Pakistan at

:51:54. > :51:57.the highest level the importance of taking effective action against all

:51:58. > :52:00.terrorist groups operating in Pakistan, as Pakistan has committed

:52:01. > :52:06.to do. The UK will continue to encourage both India and Pakistan to

:52:07. > :52:13.ensure channels of dialogue remain open as a means of resolving

:52:14. > :52:18.differences. There was a discussion on the use of pellet guns. Very many

:52:19. > :52:24.members raised that issue. Let me just address that straightaway. I

:52:25. > :52:29.have said on a number of occasions in this House that I am very

:52:30. > :52:31.concerned by the violence in Indian administered Kashmir and I extend my

:52:32. > :52:35.condolences to the victims of violence and their families. I have

:52:36. > :52:39.also is discussed with representatives from the Indian

:52:40. > :52:43.government the use of pellet guns and alternative methods of crowd

:52:44. > :52:46.control. The use of pellet guns has come under review by the government

:52:47. > :52:49.of India and the results of the review have not yet been shared

:52:50. > :52:54.publicly. I understand that alternative methods are now being

:52:55. > :52:58.used. I believe that since last September, pellet guns were replaced

:52:59. > :53:02.with chilli powder shells as a preferred non-lethal crowd control

:53:03. > :53:06.device. From media reporting, it appears the number of fraternities

:53:07. > :53:09.and injuries have seen a decline since then. I am sure the whole

:53:10. > :53:17.House would welcome this and we will continue to monitor the situation --

:53:18. > :53:25.the number of fatalities and injuries. The Public safety act was

:53:26. > :53:30.raised by a number of members and we are aware of the concerns regarding

:53:31. > :53:34.allegations of immunity from prosecution by Indian Armed Forces

:53:35. > :53:41.personnel in Indian administered Kashmir under the Public safety act.

:53:42. > :53:47.The Indian public has put in place then this is -- the Indian public

:53:48. > :53:50.has put in place a mechanism by which this can be investigated.

:53:51. > :53:56.Domestic laws must be in line with international standards. Any

:53:57. > :54:00.allegations of human rights abuse must be investigated thoroughly,

:54:01. > :54:04.promptly and transparently. I also understand that on the 11th of

:54:05. > :54:09.January of this year, the chief minister told the state assembly

:54:10. > :54:12.that the Indian government has ordered the establishment of special

:54:13. > :54:17.investigating teams into the deaths of civilians and also looking at the

:54:18. > :54:23.involvement of police personnel during the unrest of the past.

:54:24. > :54:30.There was a discussion around confidence-building measures. Would

:54:31. > :54:34.he allow me. Of course. On the the face of it is encouraging that the

:54:35. > :54:40.investigations have been launched, will the Government take steps to

:54:41. > :54:44.make sure there is confidence that the investigations can be relied on

:54:45. > :54:47.to determine what is true? Of course, I thank my honourable friend

:54:48. > :54:51.for that intervention. Of course we continue to monitor the whole

:54:52. > :54:56.situation in the region and let me come on to talking about the UN and

:54:57. > :55:04.other such mat Feres he will allow me. -- and other such matters if he

:55:05. > :55:08.will allow me. And the UK supports a number of existing initiatives to

:55:09. > :55:13.encourage open dialogue between Pakistan and India on the basis they

:55:14. > :55:21.can share their views in confidence and we hope those opportunities will

:55:22. > :55:26.continue. Now, we come to the discussion and the issue around the

:55:27. > :55:30.motion itself. And my my honourable friend has put forward and he calls

:55:31. > :55:35.for the British Government to raise the situation in Kashmir at the UN.

:55:36. > :55:39.As I have said set out the British Government believes it is for India

:55:40. > :55:43.and Pakistan to find a lasting solution to Kashmir, taking into

:55:44. > :55:47.account the wishes of the Kashmiri people and we stand ready to support

:55:48. > :55:52.both countries in this goal. But it is not for the UK to proscribe a

:55:53. > :55:59.solution. I would just say that in if debate that took place in

:56:00. > :56:06.Westminster Hall in 2014, the member for Bury North made a very powerful

:56:07. > :56:13.speech and in that he himself said, the governance of India and Pakistan

:56:14. > :56:17.are the principal parties who can bring about a resolution. I think

:56:18. > :56:22.that is the case. May I talk about the UN and the high commissioner for

:56:23. > :56:33.human rights, that was raised by members. Of course, as permanent

:56:34. > :56:42.five member of the UN any member of the UN human rights consill, I am

:56:43. > :56:50.ware aware the commissioner has asked for access to Kashmir and we

:56:51. > :56:55.urge all states to visit. It is right the UN high commissioner has

:56:56. > :56:59.extended that invitation, but Pakistan has sent a letter staying

:57:00. > :57:04.that they would accept if India would accept and India has not got

:57:05. > :57:10.back. What will he do to encourage India to allow them to accept that

:57:11. > :57:13.offer? Let me just reiterate the point I made to the honourable

:57:14. > :57:18.gentleman that we encourage all states to consider visits by the UN

:57:19. > :57:23.high commissioner and we have had this discussion previously as well.

:57:24. > :57:29.There was a discussion about the Prime Minister's visit to India in

:57:30. > :57:34.November and of course she, as members would expect, discussed a

:57:35. > :57:38.range of issues, including on Kashmir and I hope this should be a

:57:39. > :57:44.source of reassurance to members. A number of members made... Of course.

:57:45. > :57:49.I thank him or the giving way, I would like him to be more specific

:57:50. > :57:52.to confirm that a range of issues includes human rights abuses? I

:57:53. > :57:58.thank the honourable gentleman for giving way. What I would say to him

:57:59. > :58:01.is he should take comfort from the fact that Kashmir as a subject was

:58:02. > :58:07.discussed between the two Prime Ministers. Having said that, it was

:58:08. > :58:12.a bilateral discussion and he himself as someone who has been in

:58:13. > :58:19.Government will know we can't comment on private discussions.

:58:20. > :58:25.There was a discussion about the visit of the... Of the Foreign

:58:26. > :58:31.Secretary to India and of course he is also discussing a range of

:58:32. > :58:35.issues, including regional security. Let me say that the UK Government

:58:36. > :58:39.will continue to encourage and support both India and Pakistan to

:58:40. > :58:43.find a lasting resolution to the situation in Kashmir in line with

:58:44. > :58:49.the wishes of the people of Kashmir. We cannot mediate in the process.

:58:50. > :58:52.I'm aware of the strength of feeling about Kashmir among many people in

:58:53. > :58:55.Britain and this House and I'm glad this debate has given me the

:58:56. > :59:00.opportunity to set out the Government's position. I thank

:59:01. > :59:11.members for raising the Esh use they have today -- issues they have.

:59:12. > :59:15.Thank you. This has been an historic debate, comprehensively covering the

:59:16. > :59:19.extremely important matters which relate to Kashmir and can I thank

:59:20. > :59:25.all the 19 members who have taken part in the debate and those who

:59:26. > :59:33.have made interventions. Particularly I want to thank today

:59:34. > :59:37.the Hawkhill speaking for the SNP and the shadow minister for their

:59:38. > :59:43.contributions. I do hope that in the light of this debate my honourable

:59:44. > :59:49.friend the minister will reflect on the many positive suggestions which

:59:50. > :59:58.have been made. I formally move the motion and commend it to the House.

:59:59. > :00:10.As many of the opinion say aye. Of contray no. Trino. The ayes have it.

:00:11. > :00:16.Now we come to the motion on holocaust day. We are limited on

:00:17. > :00:20.time. So I'm going to impose a limit of 15 minutes, including

:00:21. > :00:27.interventions on the opening speaker and suggest a limit of five minutes

:00:28. > :00:34.for backbenchers. If that is not adhered to, I will have to drop it

:00:35. > :00:42.to four or five minutes. Thank you. I will try not to rush my speaking

:00:43. > :00:48.after that introduction. Could I thank the members who supported me

:00:49. > :00:52.in this application to the backbench chitee for allowing -- committee for

:00:53. > :00:58.allowing the debate and all members who are participating. The Holocaust

:00:59. > :01:07.Memorial Day was established in 2001 as a result of a private member's

:01:08. > :01:11.bill. And we owe him gratitude for allowing the nation an opportunity

:01:12. > :01:17.to pause and reflect on the holocaust. It is necessary to pause,

:01:18. > :01:23.because of the impact on millions of people, on family and on humanity as

:01:24. > :01:30.a whole. It is not something we can consider lightly. I thank my

:01:31. > :01:35.honourable friend for giving way, last year I visited Auschwitz with

:01:36. > :01:38.students from Newcastle, it was a challenging and moving visit, but it

:01:39. > :01:42.was made powerful by the presence of so many young people from the

:01:43. > :01:48.Reening. Region, does my honourable friend agree we owe a debt to those

:01:49. > :01:53.at the holocaust educational trust that make this visit possible for so

:01:54. > :01:58.many people to ensure we never forget and never repeat? I'm

:01:59. > :02:03.grateful for the intervention and in a few minutes I will echo her

:02:04. > :02:09.sentiments and I will carry on with the speech and not take any more

:02:10. > :02:14.interventions, you can see the ferocity with which the deputy madam

:02:15. > :02:20.speaker is encouraging us to make progress! The theme of the Holocaust

:02:21. > :02:27.Memorial Day is how can life go on? It invites us to consider how our

:02:28. > :02:31.generation can comprehend the holocaust when so few of those who

:02:32. > :02:36.survived are still us with. We are entering an age where the lived in

:02:37. > :02:41.experience of war and the horrors is being replaced by one in which we

:02:42. > :02:45.experience is through stories handed down or the media or books or film.

:02:46. > :02:58.Because so few survivors remain, it is easy I to trivialise the events

:02:59. > :03:06.and it is not uncommon to hear people who call people concentration

:03:07. > :03:12.camp commanders for disagreeing with them. These comments are

:03:13. > :03:20.extraordinarily irresponsible, they casually draw a line between those

:03:21. > :03:24.with a deliberate attempt by state murder to murder every single member

:03:25. > :03:34.of a religious group. The only time this has happened in history to. .

:03:35. > :03:40.To do this not only trivialised the events of past, it makes the job of

:03:41. > :03:46.those with a malicious path of holocaust denial easier. So I agree

:03:47. > :03:51.with the words used last night by the Secretary of State for

:03:52. > :03:57.communities, the member for Bromsgrove at a holocaust

:03:58. > :04:09.educational event, he said, I urge people to push back when people

:04:10. > :04:14.search for comparisons that belittle this. We have to do that, the most

:04:15. > :04:18.un-British of things, we have to make a scene. Maybe in private,

:04:19. > :04:24.maybe in the media, maybe on twitser. But if we don't speak out

:04:25. > :04:29.against hatred and anti-Semitism, it will become normalised and part of

:04:30. > :04:33.every day life and once that happens the consequences will be tragic. He

:04:34. > :04:39.was speaking as a minister and a Conservative MP. I see we have his

:04:40. > :04:47.predecessor in his place, the member for Brentwood and I look forward to

:04:48. > :04:52.his comments. I stand here as a Labour MP, yet share his sentiments.

:04:53. > :04:58.I look to myself and my own political party for how I and we can

:04:59. > :05:10.strive harder to avoid language and actions that are or are perceived to

:05:11. > :05:15.be anti-semitic. We should do more to prevent this in the first place.

:05:16. > :05:20.Because the points of offence is the point at at which we know we have

:05:21. > :05:24.failed. The events we remember today are hard to imagine, due to the

:05:25. > :05:32.scale of human suffering it involves. Approximately 6 million

:05:33. > :05:41.Jewish people were murdered by Nazi Germany and its collaborators. It

:05:42. > :05:47.was the defining element of Nazi ideology. Persecution of Jews

:05:48. > :05:53.started after Hitler's accession to power. The intensity and brutality

:05:54. > :05:58.of the policies escalated throughout Nazi rule, resulting in mass murder

:05:59. > :06:04.and genocide. It is understandable why the holocaust plays such a

:06:05. > :06:07.painful and pow perful role within the modern Jewish culture. I'm

:06:08. > :06:14.fortunate to have a large and thriving Jewish community in my

:06:15. > :06:20.constituency of Hove. We are home to four well attended and very active

:06:21. > :06:24.synagogues. They play an active role in all aspects of our life in the

:06:25. > :06:34.beautiful city on the south coast and take part in festivals and host

:06:35. > :06:42.remembrance day event to remember Jews who fell in the war. It has

:06:43. > :06:49.welcomed me to events and helped me understand the impact of the

:06:50. > :06:54.holocaust on modern Jewish life. The Rabbis there have helped answer my

:06:55. > :06:59.questions and discussion the history and the modern face of Judaism and

:07:00. > :07:04.the great thing about the group that is so welcomed and integrated into

:07:05. > :07:11.the community is it inspires others to share and to join in. That is why

:07:12. > :07:20.next week I proudly joined students at a local school which is holding

:07:21. > :07:25.an event where people from the still reflect on the meaning of the

:07:26. > :07:29.holocaust. As we approach Holocaust Memorial Day it is appropriate that

:07:30. > :07:36.we in this is House remember these events. The memorial date was chose

:07:37. > :07:43.on the respect the liberation of Auschwitz by allied forces on 27th

:07:44. > :07:46.January 1945. The death camp has become symbolic of the holocaust,

:07:47. > :07:53.due to the scale of the murder that happened there. 1. 1 million lives

:07:54. > :08:00.were ended in at this place. In November last year, I visited

:08:01. > :08:07.Auschwitz with 200 students from Sussex and another colleague. It was

:08:08. > :08:12.under the auspices of the holocaust trust. I cannot emphasise the

:08:13. > :08:16.thoughtsful and powerful way the trust guides students through the

:08:17. > :08:22.process of learning and experiencing Auschwitz. Before the visit students

:08:23. > :08:27.get together in seminars to learn the history and the facts behind the

:08:28. > :08:32.holocaust. Even meeting a holocaust survivor. They visit. And finally

:08:33. > :08:37.after their return they meet again to talk about the lesson and what it

:08:38. > :08:44.means for them as individual and us as a society. The past, the presents

:08:45. > :08:53.and the future. These fortunate young people were carry the burden

:08:54. > :08:59.of knowing the horror meted out to Jews and and the wisdom that

:09:00. > :09:05.experience bestows. Two students were from Brighton and Hove, they

:09:06. > :09:08.showed the depth of thinking and sensitivity and thoughtsfulness that

:09:09. > :09:17.makes me so proud of young people today.

:09:18. > :09:24.We saw the cells from which people tried to escape. The wall against

:09:25. > :09:30.which so many people were shot dead at the ground beneath could no

:09:31. > :09:33.longer soak up the blood. The desperately cold caverns where

:09:34. > :09:37.people slept. The train tracks that brought people to their deaths in

:09:38. > :09:44.cattle trucks. The sidings where doctors, the people trained to save

:09:45. > :09:49.and enhance life, doctors used their training to decide who was strong

:09:50. > :09:52.enough to work and all the others that should be put to death that

:09:53. > :09:56.very day. For those of us who celebrate the good that humanity is

:09:57. > :10:04.capable of, it is a shattering place to visit. At the end of the tour,

:10:05. > :10:08.guided by the extraordinary staff of the Auschwitz Museum, we gathered at

:10:09. > :10:11.the top of the Railtrack 's. We stood directly beneath the remains

:10:12. > :10:17.of two former gas chambers were tens of thousands of people lost their

:10:18. > :10:26.lives. In the darkness we listened to poetry read by students. Then a

:10:27. > :10:31.Rabbi sang prayer is in the still remains of hearts, gas chambers and

:10:32. > :10:37.forests. The beauty pierced the horror of the location. Jewish prey

:10:38. > :10:42.are being sung in that place was lost on nobody. Then, as we left,

:10:43. > :10:46.leaving behind us lighted candles on the tracks, which looked like a

:10:47. > :10:50.blazing path of light into the terrible darkness which still hangs

:10:51. > :10:55.over that place. This is the image that remains most strong in my mind

:10:56. > :11:00.because a blazing pathway of light is what has to be needs from our

:11:01. > :11:05.generation and goes into the future. It will come in the form of

:11:06. > :11:09.remembering, learning, and of being brave enough to confront hatred. For

:11:10. > :11:18.those of us in public life, it will mean using the power we have to

:11:19. > :11:23.unite and temper and never to exploit. These are some of the many

:11:24. > :11:26.lessons I have learned from listening and discussing the

:11:27. > :11:32.Holocaust and its role in shaping modern Jewish life across Britain.

:11:33. > :11:34.It is also moments of reflection like this in the House of Commons

:11:35. > :11:38.through to community schools and living rooms across the country that

:11:39. > :11:47.are so desperately important. Thank you. The question is that this House

:11:48. > :11:55.considered Holocaust Memorial Day 2017. Thank you. It has been a great

:11:56. > :12:02.honour to follow the honourable gentleman. I thought it was a very

:12:03. > :12:08.thoughtful speech, and I agree entirely with what he has said. In

:12:09. > :12:19.April last year I visited the former Nazi death camp which the people of

:12:20. > :12:25.Poland have preserved in testimony of man's inhumanity to man and,

:12:26. > :12:28.Treblinka. The world is grateful to the ways in which Poland has acted

:12:29. > :12:38.as a custodian for these terrible places. Treblinka is unambiguously a

:12:39. > :12:45.death camp. Most victims survive from the a few hours, and those who

:12:46. > :12:51.were too frail to make it to the gas chambers were escorted to hospital,

:12:52. > :12:55.which was a facade, it wasn't open pit and they were shot and there are

:12:56. > :13:06.some things still living bodies were thrown into the pet.

:13:07. > :13:20.The best estimate is somewhere between 700 and 900,000 dues were

:13:21. > :13:23.killed in Treblinka's gas chambers. Moore one were killed in Treblinka

:13:24. > :13:35.than any other Nazi extermination camp, apart from Auschwitz. It is a

:13:36. > :13:38.grim place. Elizabeth in the five monument and a carefully laid --

:13:39. > :13:44.carefully laid stones remembering the different communities. I laid a

:13:45. > :13:52.wreath, and following the visit I tweeted my observations. Within

:13:53. > :13:56.minutes I received a tweet that said no one died in Treblinka, it was a

:13:57. > :14:02.transit camp. There were no gas chambers, no crematorium and now

:14:03. > :14:09.mass graves. I have no idea whether the person who sent me that actually

:14:10. > :14:16.believed it or not. I think it is all too easy to dismiss this as yet

:14:17. > :14:21.another example of our post-truth world fake news that is prevalent on

:14:22. > :14:28.social media. But I think there is something more sinister going on.

:14:29. > :14:32.Members will recall the ten stages of Holocaust, of genocide, starting

:14:33. > :14:42.with classification, working through to persecution and extermination.

:14:43. > :14:48.But the tenth stage is the final stage, and that is Holocaust denial,

:14:49. > :14:52.it did not happen, the numbers were exaggerated, there were not many

:14:53. > :14:55.dues in the first place. They brought it on themselves. The dues

:14:56. > :15:22.and using it to justify their actions. To forget and belittle...

:15:23. > :15:27.-- if you looked at the trailer and beneath at the comments made by

:15:28. > :15:35.people, there are thousands of abuse of comments. , perpetrating the

:15:36. > :15:43.claim that the Holocaust was fake. Only a few days ago, David Irving

:15:44. > :15:45.claimed he was inspiring a new generation of Holocaust sceptic 's.

:15:46. > :16:00.That is a fancy way of dressing up Holocaust denial.

:16:01. > :16:12.Along with the right honourable member I am proud to be a member of

:16:13. > :16:17.the Association, which is going to establish the memorial in a

:16:18. > :16:20.massively important place. And international design competition was

:16:21. > :16:28.launched last year, with 92 teams expressing an interest. Ten were

:16:29. > :16:43.short listed and we will load pretty soon that when the competition ends

:16:44. > :16:58.Monday, I think it will be a lasting monument, something we are immensely

:16:59. > :17:05.year... Others want to speak, so I year... Others want to speak, so I

:17:06. > :17:20.want to finish with a quote which explains why we're doing this. In a

:17:21. > :17:26.Nobel prize acceptance speech, now that they are not alone, that when

:17:27. > :17:34.there are voices is stifled, we shall lend them as. But while their

:17:35. > :17:45.freedom depends on hours, the quality of our freedom depends on

:17:46. > :17:50.there as. Thank you. I welcome this debate and the fact that it was a

:17:51. > :17:52.decision of this Parliament on an all-party basis that has led to as

:17:53. > :18:20.having Holocaust Memorial Day this is an opportunity

:18:21. > :18:26.to reflect on current anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is indeed a virus. It

:18:27. > :18:32.spans different religions, different political parties, and it changes

:18:33. > :18:38.its form overtime. I very much welcome the government's acceptance

:18:39. > :18:40.of the International Holocaust Alliance's definition of

:18:41. > :18:47.anti-Semitism because it is important that we focus on what

:18:48. > :18:55.anti-Semitism means in this era, as well as historically. Indeed, the

:18:56. > :19:00.figures from the Community Security Trust show as shockingly that there

:19:01. > :19:07.has been a resurgence of anti-Semitism and anti-Semitic

:19:08. > :19:12.discourse. It is important not to exaggerate this, and most British

:19:13. > :19:16.Jewish people will go through the lights without experiencing

:19:17. > :19:19.anti-Semitism. But there is a profound unease across the Jewish

:19:20. > :19:25.community in the UK with the increase of anti-Semitic incidents

:19:26. > :19:31.and comments. As the Community Security Trust report on

:19:32. > :19:36.anti-Semitic discourse shows, reflect sometimes insinuations and

:19:37. > :19:40.allusions, if not direct anti-Semitism. It is always

:19:41. > :19:45.important to remember that anti-Semitism does not lie solely in

:19:46. > :19:52.one religion. Historically, Christianity was often the source of

:19:53. > :19:55.anti-Semitism. But it is also found in extreme Islamist sources as well.

:19:56. > :20:06.We only have to look at a charter to see clear, explicit anti-Semitism

:20:07. > :20:11.references to Jewish people. Anti-Semitism is not only just found

:20:12. > :20:15.on the right. I think conventionally people think it is confined to the

:20:16. > :20:21.right of politics, and that is not the case, and has never been the

:20:22. > :20:27.case. This is a fact that people who declare themselves to be

:20:28. > :20:31.anti-racialist and not necessarily opposed to anti-Semitism or even

:20:32. > :20:39.understand what it is. Shocking that I find this as a person of the left

:20:40. > :20:43.and as a Labour Party member, I recognise there is a fightback,

:20:44. > :20:50.which is being led by non-Jewish people as well as by Jewish people.

:20:51. > :20:59.This week there has been a showing of the film denial in parliament.

:21:00. > :21:06.The film showing, as the right honourable member mentioned, the

:21:07. > :21:18.trial of David Irving, the Holocaust denier. It is indeed truly shocking

:21:19. > :21:27.that today, as the film is being shown, and as he was defeated soap

:21:28. > :21:35.conclusively, it is reported that there are more supporters for the

:21:36. > :21:41.lie of Holocaust denial, more online supporters, and this appears to be

:21:42. > :21:49.gathering in force. This is a reminder of the importance of

:21:50. > :21:52.Holocaust memorial day of this debate, and the support of combating

:21:53. > :22:07.modern-day manifestations of anti-Semitism. It is an honour to

:22:08. > :22:12.respond to this debate. Last November the honourable member for

:22:13. > :22:16.Hove and I stood with young people from across the south-east of

:22:17. > :22:21.England on the train tracks at Auschwitz, where 1.1 million Jewish

:22:22. > :22:28.men, women and children were murdered by the Nazis. I travelled

:22:29. > :22:33.to Poland as part of the lesson run by the Holocaust educational trust.

:22:34. > :22:39.The train tracks run right into the tracks. Ahead of the watchtowers

:22:40. > :22:40.at all times. At the end of the at all times. At the end of the

:22:41. > :22:45.tracks are the remains of gas chambers. To the left and right, as

:22:46. > :22:49.far as the eye can see, if the barracks where those selected to

:22:50. > :22:53.work were held. As we stood on the train tracks, our educator read an

:22:54. > :22:58.extract from a young boy who stood extract from a young boy who stood

:22:59. > :23:02.on those same train tracks 34 years earlier. The extract has shared with

:23:03. > :23:08.me and I want to share it. Men to the left, women to the right. Eight

:23:09. > :23:16.words were spoken quietly, indifferently without emotion. Eight

:23:17. > :23:21.short words. That was when I departed from my mother. I had not

:23:22. > :23:25.had time to think but already I felt the pressure of my father's hand. We

:23:26. > :23:31.were alone. Were part of a second I saw my mother and sister moving to

:23:32. > :23:36.the right. I saw them disappeared into the distance holding hands. My

:23:37. > :23:40.mother was stroking my sister's fair hair is pulled to protect, as I

:23:41. > :23:47.walked on with my father and other men. I know -- I did not know that I

:23:48. > :23:51.was parting with my mother for ever. I went on walking, my father held

:23:52. > :24:00.onto my hand. These are the memories of a professor, Nobel laureate. He

:24:01. > :24:05.spent the rest of his life in shooting the Holocaust was not

:24:06. > :24:11.forgotten. He passed away in July 2016, just a few months before my

:24:12. > :24:16.visit aged 87. So today in Parliament we debate this horror, we

:24:17. > :24:21.speak in honour of him and those who perished in the camps or survived

:24:22. > :24:23.against all odds. Many of those who lived dedicated the rest of their

:24:24. > :24:28.lives to make sure the experiences would never be repeated. The stories

:24:29. > :24:35.act as a reminder of the evil which mankind can deliver on itself when

:24:36. > :24:38.hatred and violence is left unchecked. Yesterday in Parliament I

:24:39. > :24:39.spoke with six young people who made the same trip to Auschwitz over the

:24:40. > :24:48.last few They have deviced imaginative idea

:24:49. > :24:52.ideas to ensure that the horrors of the holocaust act as a flame to

:24:53. > :24:58.guard gents the darkness of hatred and division. Time doesn't permit to

:24:59. > :25:01.mention all their stories, the final young ambassador was dharlt Herd.

:25:02. > :25:05.She had been keen to develop her knowledge of the holocaust having,

:25:06. > :25:10.as she did, a great grandmother who had been in a concentration camp in

:25:11. > :25:14.the last year of the war. Little was spoken about this experience and

:25:15. > :25:18.Charlotte lost her great grandmother in 2015. This motivated Charlotte to

:25:19. > :25:24.complete her lessons in Auschwitz project in April last year. On her

:25:25. > :25:26.return from Auschwitz Charlotte and her attendee from her school created

:25:27. > :25:31.a memorial which would inspire others. This is how she described

:25:32. > :25:35.her work to me. We wanted to involve the students within our school as a

:25:36. > :25:38.way of uniting them. We have a school that has 40 plus different

:25:39. > :25:43.languages. We thought this was very poignant as many cultures and races

:25:44. > :25:47.were victims of persecution, but of course in particular the Jews.

:25:48. > :25:50.Therefore the hands represent the many different students within our

:25:51. > :25:53.school. Although they may be different in appearance, language or

:25:54. > :25:57.traditions, their hands are something that unite them and join

:25:58. > :26:01.them together. The word I've painted on one of the panel reads as

:26:02. > :26:06.follows, "I believe in the sun, even when it is not chieng. I believe in

:26:07. > :26:11.love, even when I cannot feel it. I believe in God even when he is

:26:12. > :26:15.silent." These words were written inside a cell in the concentration

:26:16. > :26:23.camp and we chose it because it showed the struggle the Jews had

:26:24. > :26:27.faced. D the. The prisoner never lost his faith in God. As am balls

:26:28. > :26:32.dors these ares key words can inspire all the students in our

:26:33. > :26:35.school." These young ambassadors are doing an outstanding job at

:26:36. > :26:41.reminding their peers what happened during the Second World War. The

:26:42. > :26:44.importance could never be greater. First-hand experiences deliver the

:26:45. > :26:51.power. 75 years on, these voices are being losts. We therefore have to

:26:52. > :26:55.find imaginative ways to appeal to others. We live in a society where

:26:56. > :26:59.negativity and casual insults are never far from the surface. We

:27:00. > :27:04.should never assume that the horrors of the Third Reich can never be

:27:05. > :27:11.repeated in Europe. . The Germany of 1930s had culture, history and

:27:12. > :27:18.people of differing creeds living side by side but hate turned a

:27:19. > :27:20.country where sending people toll their graves was accepted by

:27:21. > :27:25.millions of people who had previously worked amongst them. The

:27:26. > :27:29.noise of hatred in 2017 may be low but a civilised society must learn

:27:30. > :27:36.to switch it off before it deafens us. Can I thank you the Holocaust

:27:37. > :27:40.Educational Trust for ensuring this country remembers the unspeakable

:27:41. > :27:44.evil that created the holocaust. Can I thank the Trust for delivering the

:27:45. > :27:48.new voices, the young and not so young who will ensure we never

:27:49. > :27:53.forget what occurred and we do all we can to stop the under currents

:27:54. > :28:00.which, left unchecked, could make it occur again. Thank you. Holocaust

:28:01. > :28:05.Memorial Day is a crime we must never forget. We must never forget

:28:06. > :28:12.the genocide committed by Nazi Germany. We must remind you are

:28:13. > :28:17.Selves of the horrors that anti-Semitism can produce. Holocaust

:28:18. > :28:24.Memorial Day itself, the Holocaust Educational Trust is hosting a live

:28:25. > :28:27.webcast with holocaust survivor. This will be live streamed to

:28:28. > :28:34.schools all across the UK over 600 schools have signed up so far. This

:28:35. > :28:40.live streaming, this filming, will take place at Kings immediate School

:28:41. > :28:45.in my constituency of Enfield North. I'm very proud this is happening

:28:46. > :28:51.there. I commend the school for posting the event -- Kingsmead. I

:28:52. > :28:57.know the event is very important and will have a significant impact. We

:28:58. > :29:03.thank her for being willing to share her terrible experiences and give

:29:04. > :29:05.her testimony and educate our young people we thank the Holocaust

:29:06. > :29:09.Educational Trust for organising this event. Even when it makes for

:29:10. > :29:13.difficult hearing, we have a moral duty to listen to holocaust

:29:14. > :29:17.testimony. Survivors speak not only for themselves, but also for those

:29:18. > :29:28.who did not survive to tell their story.

:29:29. > :29:40.One survivor who taken to an SS camp. After 18 months, he was one of

:29:41. > :29:50.only 11 of the original 2,500 men left alive. He escaped transfer to

:29:51. > :29:58.the gas chambers twice before being transferred to Auschwitz-Birkenau.

:29:59. > :30:02.He was selected by death. But when healthier and fitter people were in

:30:03. > :30:09.the other line he ran across when the guards were distracted. He was a

:30:10. > :30:14.slave labourer in austerity before being put on a death march. He was

:30:15. > :30:17.transferred to another camp where he was liberated by the Russian army.

:30:18. > :30:22.He describes life in Auschwitz and the death march. I quote, "we were

:30:23. > :30:28.choosen to work on agriculture for the SS. First with two horses, they

:30:29. > :30:35.ploughed the field. For fertilisation they would bring us

:30:36. > :30:41.ashes from the crematorium and we put it on the ground. You could feel

:30:42. > :30:52.18th January 1 # 45. We walked with 18th January 1 # 45. We walked with

:30:53. > :31:02.three days without any food in the striped pyjamas. We were loaded on

:31:03. > :31:08.the station. We were taken to a place, the camp was eight kilometers

:31:09. > :31:13.in a forest. We were more dead than alive when we arrived. " He lives in

:31:14. > :31:19.Leeds, he is 88 years old. His testimony reminds us of the

:31:20. > :31:24.brutality of Nazi anti-Semitism. His testimony is a powerful rebuttal to

:31:25. > :31:29.those today who continue the awful practice of holocaust denial. Those

:31:30. > :31:34.who minimise, trivialise, distort or deny the horrors of the holocaust do

:31:35. > :31:39.so in order to legit mice the anti-Semitism that fuelled it. We

:31:40. > :31:45.must recognise when people claim the gas chambers a myth, argue that the

:31:46. > :31:49.holocaust is Jewish propaganda, distort Nazi history, imm my the

:31:50. > :31:53.number of holocaust victims or attacking Holocaust Memorial Days

:31:54. > :32:00.they do not do so out of historical interest or a desire for debate.

:32:01. > :32:04.They do so from nothing but prejudice, bigotry and naked

:32:05. > :32:12.anti-Semitism. Will you you give way. Of course. The testimony she is

:32:13. > :32:14.referring to show the continuing relevance and importance of

:32:15. > :32:17.Holocaust Memorial Day. The vast majority of people in this country

:32:18. > :32:24.are decent, we have seen a rise in hate crime. 41% between July 2015

:32:25. > :32:31.and July 2016. It has gone down. It's still at that level. The

:32:32. > :32:35.continuing relevance of those testimonies speaks to us all? We

:32:36. > :32:39.must never be a bystander. I totally agree. When he wrote his

:32:40. > :32:49.autobiography he called his book A Detail of History he chose that

:32:50. > :32:52.title as a riposte to Mr Le Penn who referred to the gas chambers in

:32:53. > :32:57.those terms. Our words of remembrance would mean nothing if we

:32:58. > :33:03.do not commit ourselves to action preserving the memory of the

:33:04. > :33:10.murderser is not a theoretical exercise. -- murders. As he said,

:33:11. > :33:15."what hurts the most is not the actions of the oppressor, but the

:33:16. > :33:22.silence of the bystander." We must support the brilliant work done by

:33:23. > :33:26.Hope Not Hate to counter racism and fascism in our society. We must

:33:27. > :33:32.support the fantastic work done by the Holocaust Educational Trust. The

:33:33. > :33:34.only way to truly eradicate Raissiism, anti-Semitism and

:33:35. > :33:41.holocaust denial in our society is through educating people. This is

:33:42. > :33:45.what Mr Hersch devoted his life to for the past 20 years, "if you talk

:33:46. > :33:50.about the holocaust to people, people learn and if anything like

:33:51. > :33:57.that could come up again, they would stand up against it. So that's why I

:33:58. > :34:02.talk about it all the time." In his words we must follow. We must

:34:03. > :34:06.remember. We must mourn and, above all, we must educate so that racism

:34:07. > :34:09.and anti-Semitism can never flourish again.

:34:10. > :34:16.Thank you. A pleasure to follow the honourable member for Enfield North.

:34:17. > :34:22.I would commend the honourable member for Hove for the way he

:34:23. > :34:24.introduced this particular debate. Jewish people have suffered

:34:25. > :34:31.anti-Semitism throughout the centuries. There is nothing new in

:34:32. > :34:35.that. As the honourable member reminded us, anti-Semitism is still

:34:36. > :34:41.rife, not only all over the world, but in this country as well. We can

:34:42. > :34:45.never forget that fact. It did reach its peak with the systematic attempt

:34:46. > :34:54.by the Nazis to wipe out Jews from across the world. I grew up in an

:34:55. > :34:59.area where he were educated amongst Jewish people, Indian people,

:35:00. > :35:05.Muslims, people of all religions, but the holocaust was never talked

:35:06. > :35:11.about. I, my first visit to Israel, in 1992, I saw not the wonderful

:35:12. > :35:15.museum, but the original museum. It brought home to me what life was

:35:16. > :35:20.like in Germany that the Jewish people in Germany and beyond

:35:21. > :35:26.suffered through that time and the systematic attempts to wipe them

:35:27. > :35:30.out. It brought home to me then the need to actually educate young

:35:31. > :35:34.people across this country on the need to remember what happened

:35:35. > :35:38.because it's very hard to contemplate the systematic attempt

:35:39. > :35:43.to wipe out people. It's very easy to think this was just a small

:35:44. > :35:47.number of mad people. It wasn't. There were large numbers of people

:35:48. > :35:51.involved in this. It was a systematic attempt. Therefore, we

:35:52. > :35:56.must remember that it's not just good enough to pinpoint the evil

:35:57. > :36:05.people that did this, but also those that stood by while recognising it

:36:06. > :36:08.was going on. I also remember - my visit to Auschwitz-Birkenau. It is

:36:09. > :36:13.seared in my consciousness. I think the reality is that when you go

:36:14. > :36:20.there and see at first-hand what happened, it brings home to me the

:36:21. > :36:26.importance of the testimonal of those that survived the death camps,

:36:27. > :36:31.to prove that it happened. I was privileged to welcome to this House,

:36:32. > :36:38.together with honourable member for Dudley North who is not able to be

:36:39. > :36:43.with us today a woman who was forced to go to Auschwitz-Birkenau at the

:36:44. > :36:50.point of a gun aged 16. She survived to tell the tale. She survived to

:36:51. > :36:56.come to this country, to give her life as a nurse, to build a family,

:36:57. > :37:03.to build a life in this area. Yet when she went to Birmingham, when

:37:04. > :37:06.she was there with the Jewish community, on her arrival they

:37:07. > :37:09.wanted to ignore the fact of the holocaust. They wanted to forget

:37:10. > :37:14.about it. It was a terrible thing, but they wanted to turn literally a

:37:15. > :37:19.blind eye to what happened. I think that's important to recognise, that

:37:20. > :37:25.in in country, way back then, there was almost an attempt to - not to

:37:26. > :37:31.belittle the holocaust, but to try and forget about it. Just imagine

:37:32. > :37:35.then, she went back to Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1978, a long,

:37:36. > :37:42.long time ago, before Holocaust Memorial Day was ever thought of,

:37:43. > :37:46.and to do a documentary on Return to Auschwitz. She wrote a brilliant

:37:47. > :37:52.book. It's almost the forerunner of what we now see in the Holocaust

:37:53. > :37:59.Educational Trust. I think that's... She's a very brave lady. She is very

:38:00. > :38:08.outspoken and quite rightly too on the work that she's done and what we

:38:09. > :38:15.have to do to combat. We have three major feature films now. Schindler's

:38:16. > :38:19.List, Sophie's Choice and now Denial. Two will be well-known to

:38:20. > :38:24.members across the House. Denial will be released next Friday on the

:38:25. > :38:31.general release on Holocaust Memorial Day. It is, interesting

:38:32. > :38:36.enough, the trial of Irvine, it was him who brought the case. He was

:38:37. > :38:44.eventually put on trial and proven to be a holocaust denier and he was

:38:45. > :38:48.shown to be the fool that he was. I think that's a systematic. It is a

:38:49. > :38:58.brilliant film. I would recommend colleagues from across the House to

:38:59. > :39:05.see it. I also pay tribute to an honourable lady in my constituency.

:39:06. > :39:10.She was born in 1923, the youngest of nine children. When the Nazis

:39:11. > :39:16.bombed her home city on 1st September 1939 on the outbreak of

:39:17. > :39:21.the Second World War she then moved and they planned, the family planned

:39:22. > :39:28.to move to the United States, but unfortunately she moved too late.

:39:29. > :39:35.They moved just outside Krakow. In 1941 she was in the Ghetto. She

:39:36. > :39:39.entered the Ghetto carrying a sack of potatoes, flour and a few other

:39:40. > :39:44.belongings. She stayed there with her mother and siblings. Her brother

:39:45. > :39:50.was shot by the SS. A second brother fled and was never seen again. She

:39:51. > :39:58.and her surviving family were eventually sent to a labour camp on

:39:59. > :40:03.the edge of Krakow. Her consider and her husband who married in the

:40:04. > :40:09.Ghetto had been shot after the Nazis found her bringing food into the

:40:10. > :40:12.camp. In the winter of 44-45 the camp was liquidated. . They. They

:40:13. > :40:18.had to walk to Auschwitz-Birkenau as part of the forced death march.

:40:19. > :40:26.In January 1945 she was sent with her family on a death march, leaving

:40:27. > :40:35.behind her sister. They never saw her again. After several days, they

:40:36. > :40:39.came to Germany. They were forced into trucks. They travelled under

:40:40. > :40:45.terrible conditions for three to four macro weeks, eventually rising

:40:46. > :40:54.in a concentration camp. Then she was sent to Bergen-Belsen, and she

:40:55. > :40:58.worked in a hospital for the next two months trying to support her

:40:59. > :41:07.mother the best she could. On the 15th of April, the British Army

:41:08. > :41:11.liberated Bergen-Belsen. Among the liberators was a man who later

:41:12. > :41:17.became her husband half a year later. Today, she lives in Stanmore

:41:18. > :41:20.and is in close touch with her children and grandchildren. She

:41:21. > :41:27.wrote a book recently called highlight a candle, and at the age

:41:28. > :41:32.of 93 goes to schools up and down the country to inform people of what

:41:33. > :41:41.happened. Madam Deputy Speaker, could I commend this in my name and

:41:42. > :41:46.a cross-party basis commemorating Holocaust Memorial Day. It has been

:41:47. > :41:52.so far signed by 44 honourable members. I would hope that many more

:41:53. > :41:56.could do so later. Indeed, the book of commitment from the Holocaust

:41:57. > :42:01.educational trust is available for members to sign. It has been

:42:02. > :42:06.available this week, it will be available next week in the member is

:42:07. > :42:10.cornered, and I would encourage members from across the House to

:42:11. > :42:18.sign the book of commitment and demonstrate that we commemorate

:42:19. > :42:30.those victims and make sure that we all honour that life will go on.

:42:31. > :42:38.I declared an interest as a member of the Holocaust Memorial foundation

:42:39. > :42:50.along with the right honourable member for Brentwood and

:42:51. > :43:07.Ongar. It is possibly the first time we have ever agreed!

:43:08. > :43:16.He said about man's inhumanity to man. That is a quote from Robert

:43:17. > :43:31.Burns, and it finishes with, makes countless thousands more are --

:43:32. > :43:32.mourn. It is more fitting perhaps because next Wednesday is Robert

:43:33. > :43:47.Burns Day, and national Holocaust a. Although the Holocaust was the

:43:48. > :43:52.greatest crime of the 20th century, one of the greatest crime is perhaps

:43:53. > :43:58.the greatest crime in human history, the greatest example of man's

:43:59. > :44:05.inhumanity to man, anti-Semitism is not something restricted to the 20th

:44:06. > :44:15.century or indeed restricted to Islam.

:44:16. > :44:25.years ago I was privileged as First Minister to write the introduction

:44:26. > :44:28.to a book called the Jews in Scotland, and I claim no virtue for

:44:29. > :44:31.the Scottish nation in this sense, that Scotland is one of only two

:44:32. > :44:36.nations in the whole of the continent who have never had

:44:37. > :44:42.anti-Semitic legislation on the statute book. Scotland 's

:44:43. > :44:49.declaration of Independence has an appeal to respect the rights of

:44:50. > :44:53.Jews, all of whom are equal in the eyes of God. It stands alone among

:44:54. > :45:01.medieval documents in making that call. So we should remember that

:45:02. > :45:06.anti-Semitism and the consequences of it have been something with as --

:45:07. > :45:11.that have been with us through the greater part of recorded human

:45:12. > :45:16.history. I want to say a word about the work of the foundation and

:45:17. > :45:20.indeed the work of the Auschwitz project because it cuts straight to

:45:21. > :45:32.the heart of what many members have spoken about. The Auschwitz project

:45:33. > :45:37.takes Scottish schoolchildren to Auschwitz. It has had 358 post-16

:45:38. > :45:47.establishments have taken part in the project since it was inaugurated

:45:48. > :45:55.in 2013, that is over two thirds of schools in Scotland. Is privileged

:45:56. > :46:00.-- I was privileged as First Minister to hear from these pupils

:46:01. > :46:06.after their visit, and not one of those pupils will ever forget the

:46:07. > :46:13.experience or have any truck with a Holocaust denier. I know that some

:46:14. > :46:17.members of the House even yesterday expressed some doubt about the

:46:18. > :46:22.memorial in Victoria Park, but it is a highly appropriate place for that

:46:23. > :46:38.memorial to be built. Regardless of where the memorial was built, it

:46:39. > :46:44.should be said that... Over the last few days in the antiques Road show

:46:45. > :46:54.that took place from this Palace of Westminster, it included many

:46:55. > :47:02.stories. One man from Dumfries was arrested in Budapest which was --

:47:03. > :47:09.one women from Dumfries was arrested and

:47:10. > :47:16.Not everyone stood aside as these atrocities were taking place. The

:47:17. > :47:23.film is exemplified this. Many people rallied to the cause of their

:47:24. > :47:26.fellow human beings. That educational project under learning

:47:27. > :47:31.that goes with it is absolutely vital because the circumstances are

:47:32. > :47:36.now that sadly few of the survivors of the Holocaust are still with us,

:47:37. > :47:39.and our number goes fewer by the day. There for the teaching and

:47:40. > :47:44.personal experience that can be imbued from family connections and

:47:45. > :47:52.visits to the concentration camps is all the more vital. There will not

:47:53. > :47:56.be any voices of dissent from the benches today, but I want to argue

:47:57. > :48:02.one final point which I think is of fundamental importance. Recognising

:48:03. > :48:11.and commemorating the significance of the Holocaust, of man's

:48:12. > :48:14.inhumanity to man, is not something restricted to any religious grouping

:48:15. > :48:17.at any point of view. It is something that should be

:48:18. > :48:23.commemorated by those who take a pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli or

:48:24. > :48:34.pro-peace aspect view of the Middle East. Last year on the Holocaust

:48:35. > :48:39.Memorial day, I commemorated outside the Strasbourg assembly, and I was

:48:40. > :48:41.led to make a point of order because the Israeli diplomat representing

:48:42. > :48:46.the Israeli government at that service launched an attack on the

:48:47. > :48:50.President of Iran, who was visiting France at the time. It was

:48:51. > :49:02.particularly inappropriate because President -- President Rahane is not

:49:03. > :49:08.a Holocaust denier. All of us, regardless of affiliation or point

:49:09. > :49:13.of view or religion, all of us must recognise that there are those among

:49:14. > :49:17.us who would seek to deny the terrible crimes of the past for

:49:18. > :49:21.their own cynical motivation is. But those who do not deny it, those who

:49:22. > :49:26.acknowledge it and face up to it, those who recognise it, which is the

:49:27. > :49:32.first step in preventing it happening again, these people of

:49:33. > :49:39.whatever point of view should be embraced by us as fellow human

:49:40. > :49:43.beings. I would like to start by thanking the honourable member for

:49:44. > :49:49.securing the debate. Not only is it very relevant at this time of year

:49:50. > :49:52.but it is also very relevant to myself and my constituents. The last

:49:53. > :49:58.speaker said there are fewer and fewer survivors, and he is correct.

:49:59. > :50:02.But I have a significant number of those survivors, people involved in

:50:03. > :50:07.the Holocaust, people whose families perished, and even those who escaped

:50:08. > :50:13.the Holocaust by their relatives coming here. I even had a former

:50:14. > :50:17.constituent, a reverend, who was one of those who witnessed what happened

:50:18. > :50:23.after the Holocaust. He was indeed a chaplain who, along with the British

:50:24. > :50:27.Army, entered Bergen-Belsen, and during the daytime he not only

:50:28. > :50:30.engaged in the circumcision of babies, but later he would engage in

:50:31. > :50:38.the burial and cremation of the bodies. So I think it is appropriate

:50:39. > :50:49.that the theme for the Memorial Day is how can live go one? I want to

:50:50. > :50:53.mention a centre in my constituency. There is many survivors who visit on

:50:54. > :50:57.a regular basis and give each other support and receive pastoral care in

:50:58. > :51:02.the later years of their life. I know that for many people I have

:51:03. > :51:05.spoken to, it is very much a check list organisation serving the

:51:06. > :51:11.community. But particularly I wanted to pay attention to one member who

:51:12. > :51:15.lives above the survivors Centre, and she speaks to schools on behalf

:51:16. > :51:22.of the Holocaust educational trust. She was born in Poland in 1929. She

:51:23. > :51:30.lived with her parents and younger sister. But the Nazis marched into

:51:31. > :51:35.her tone and decided to take over her flat because they liked it so

:51:36. > :51:39.much. Her family were simply thrown out onto the street with no

:51:40. > :51:46.possessions. So she went to live with baby relatives who looked after

:51:47. > :51:49.her. But as the war continued, the Nazis established a ghetto in the

:51:50. > :51:59.Tyne and Wear all the Jewish inhabitants had to live. Several

:52:00. > :52:02.people lived -- inhabitants. In 1952 the Nazis announced everyone in the

:52:03. > :52:11.ghetto was being moved, and believing they would soon be

:52:12. > :52:20.returned... That was the last thing they saw their family. Her mother

:52:21. > :52:31.decided she would hide her and her sister under a coat, but her sister

:52:32. > :52:34.was found and taken. In 1944 the Nazis said the ghetto was going to

:52:35. > :52:45.be liquidated than they should call to the train station. Renny and her

:52:46. > :52:54.mother were transported to a warehouse in hamburg. In 1945 they

:52:55. > :52:57.were moved again to Bergen-Belsen. Fortunately Renny and her mother

:52:58. > :53:02.were liberated from Bergen-Belsen on the 15th of April in 1945 by the

:53:03. > :53:08.same British Army I mentioned and the Reverend. Unfortunately 12 days

:53:09. > :53:15.later, Renny's mother died. Like other members here, I visited

:53:16. > :53:18.Auschwitz on several occasions. Seeing is really believing and

:53:19. > :53:23.understanding, and I have to say, watching the faces of some pupils in

:53:24. > :53:27.my constituency is not only very moving, but it is also very telling.

:53:28. > :53:32.The last time I visited Auschwitz was on the 27th of January 2014,

:53:33. > :53:38.when I attended the International Holocaust Memorial Day through the

:53:39. > :53:43.international gathering at Auschwitz, alongside Lord Howard. On

:53:44. > :53:48.that day, the temperature fell to -10, and never in my life have I

:53:49. > :53:53.been that cold, and I still find it incredulous that people could manage

:53:54. > :53:58.to survive those conditions. But serve if they did, and many people

:53:59. > :54:05.then moved to the United Kingdom itself. On one occasion when I

:54:06. > :54:14.visited Auschwitz I discovered e-book. -- a book. A man speaks

:54:15. > :54:22.about the problems he faced in the camp. He says, the opposite of love

:54:23. > :54:27.is not hate, it is indifference. And that is the reason we continued to

:54:28. > :54:34.remember and commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day. On Monday, I visited

:54:35. > :54:44.Edgware district reform synagogue, where I heard someone tell a hundred

:54:45. > :54:54.pupils about her time during the Holocaust. I pay great tribute to

:54:55. > :54:58.those who do this work. In 2012, the England football team went to

:54:59. > :55:06.Auschwitz, to show them what occurred and to hear first-hand

:55:07. > :55:09.testimony of this woman's brother and his experience. As a result it

:55:10. > :55:12.not only highlighted the issue but also brought to a new generation the

:55:13. > :55:18.problems of the Holocaust. Some of my staff have asked me about

:55:19. > :55:22.my experiences and visit to Auschwitz. I'm pleased to say, when

:55:23. > :55:25.it gets warmer, in the spring, I will take my office staff from

:55:26. > :55:29.Parliament to Auschwitz. I think I can probably give them a good

:55:30. > :55:33.experience on the amount of occasions I've visit and the amount

:55:34. > :55:39.of books I've read. I want to finish on a positive note. I want to thank

:55:40. > :55:42.first of all my right honourable friend for Brentwood Ongar for the

:55:43. > :55:45.work he has done. He has been a tireless campaigner on this issue

:55:46. > :55:49.and has been a real friend to the Jewish community. I thank him for

:55:50. > :55:54.that on behalf of my constituents. Finally, I want to thank every

:55:55. > :55:57.single member who is here today, I have many Jewish constituents, as

:55:58. > :56:01.I've said, so you would expect me to be here. I understand that. But I'm

:56:02. > :56:04.grateful to each and every one. You who have come along today who

:56:05. > :56:08.don't have either Jewish constituents or certainly don't have

:56:09. > :56:09.constituents who experienced the Holocaust. I thank each and every

:56:10. > :56:19.one. You for that. Thank you. One day in

:56:20. > :56:22.November I had the unforgettable experience of visiting

:56:23. > :56:28.Auschwitz-Birkenau with students from Ealing Independent College and

:56:29. > :56:34.the Holocaust Educational Trust. It was a long and difficult day. We

:56:35. > :56:40.flew out at Luton at 6.00am and back at 11.00pm. 200 from schools from

:56:41. > :56:45.the London region that day will rest for us forever. Icy conditions,

:56:46. > :56:52.minus four degrees the emotional demands of the day a harsh context

:56:53. > :56:56.for bearing witness for the horror committed in the death camps. If a

:56:57. > :57:00.one minute silence welcome back to be served for every victim who

:57:01. > :57:06.perished there we would have been there for two years. 0 plus years on

:57:07. > :57:10.since the liberation of Auschwitz it has contemporary relevance. With the

:57:11. > :57:13.passage of time there are fewer and fewer survivors from the camps and

:57:14. > :57:19.transport children and the people who liberated them. We owe a huge

:57:20. > :57:25.debt to those people and organisations such as HET, HMD, head

:57:26. > :57:29.up up bio live ya, who was I was at school with. The commemorations we

:57:30. > :57:34.will see in the neck week, up-and-down the country, in

:57:35. > :57:37.educating successive generation. We can only understand our present and

:57:38. > :57:41.future if we understand our past. This is a debate about six million

:57:42. > :57:48.Jewish victims of the Holocaust and it also extends to millions of

:57:49. > :57:52.others that the Nazis exterminated, romany gypsies, communist,

:57:53. > :57:55.socialist, trade unionists and gays and those slaughtered in origin

:57:56. > :58:00.sides. Holocaust education campaigning evolves. We have already

:58:01. > :58:06.had mention of the Antiques Road Show over the weekend that featured

:58:07. > :58:11.memorabilia and the artefacts that we saw in Auschwitz are on display

:58:12. > :58:16.in Israel. That brought it into the nation's living rooms over

:58:17. > :58:23.prime-time TV. This year's Holocaust Memorial Day schools pack contains

:58:24. > :58:27.recipe cards. Things like stew. It brings home - another way of

:58:28. > :58:31.digesting information about cultures attacked in genocide. There are

:58:32. > :58:38.other recipes from cad bode ya and Bosnia. Culture is transmitted

:58:39. > :58:42.subtly. When there is no grandparents culinary tradition and

:58:43. > :58:46.memory dies. All communities must learn lessons and be vigilant

:58:47. > :58:50.against racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobiaened a all forms of

:58:51. > :58:55.hatred in the contemporary world. Following the verdict of the EU

:58:56. > :59:00.referendum and events across the Atlantic, prejudice and racism are

:59:01. > :59:05.in danger of becoming acceptable and that holders of these abhorrent

:59:06. > :59:08.views might in some way feel disinhibited from expressing them.

:59:09. > :59:13.Holocaust Memorial Day this year has renewed significance. We live in a

:59:14. > :59:17.time of post-truth politics and fake news. People have mentioned the film

:59:18. > :59:23.Denial, I had the opportunity to see it earlier in the week on the trial

:59:24. > :59:28.of the Nazi David Irvine against the American academic, Deborah Lipstadt.

:59:29. > :59:33.I warmly recommend that as a fact packed treatment of the downfall of

:59:34. > :59:38.the UK's most notorious rewriter of history. It's frightening to hear he

:59:39. > :59:41.is making a resurgence, people have said. I think these views are

:59:42. > :59:50.ridiculous as people who think the earth is flat. We need to call them

:59:51. > :59:56.out. I attempted my first ever rabbi Friday night meal at the end of last

:59:57. > :00:00.year at Ealing Liberal Synagogue. The guard on the door served as a

:00:01. > :00:06.reminder that all communities deserve to worship in safety and

:00:07. > :00:10.that is obviously not the case. I would say it's deplorable that

:00:11. > :00:17.mosques in the UK have pigs heads left on their doorsteps. We hear of

:00:18. > :00:25.the desecration of Jewish graveyards in Europe. It does feel a bit like

:00:26. > :00:29.hate-fuelled political rhetoric has seen something of a resurgence.

:00:30. > :00:37.Ditto the scapegoating and vilification of migrants and

:00:38. > :00:42.refugees. We have earnest Simon who addressed us last year. He told us

:00:43. > :00:49.of his train trip into the unknown as a child in 1939 from Austria. The

:00:50. > :00:53.fist question was whether we should take Syrian refugee. He answer was

:00:54. > :01:01.an emphatic - of course, we have a moral duty. All these debates

:01:02. > :01:06.resonate with contemporary debates. We met with a cross-party delegation

:01:07. > :01:12.of visiting MPs from Poland this week. They voiced concern about the

:01:13. > :01:15.rising tide of hate crime. We reashursd them with have strong tie

:01:16. > :01:20.that is bind between the nations. They asked me if I had been to