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:00:00. > :00:00.to be called only once, intervention should be questions that should be

:00:00. > :00:13.brief, the front bench may take part in questioning.

:00:14. > :00:18.I am grateful to the backbench business committee that providing

:00:19. > :00:26.time they need to present our tenth report entitled Lesson Still To Be

:00:27. > :00:31.Learned From The Chilcot Inquiry. The decision to invade Iraq has left

:00:32. > :00:34.an indelible scorer in British politics. It continues to be as

:00:35. > :00:38.controversial today as it was at the time, not least because it became

:00:39. > :00:44.apparent after the invasion that it was to become a protracted and

:00:45. > :00:50.bloody affair costing the lives of 179 UK servicemen and women as well

:00:51. > :00:54.as those of our allies and thousands of people in Iraq. The consequences

:00:55. > :01:01.of the decision to invade Iraq remain profound, not only for our

:01:02. > :01:05.domestic politics but also for our foreign and Security policy and the

:01:06. > :01:10.stability of the whole of the region. The Chilcot Inquiry was

:01:11. > :01:17.established in 2009 to provide some closure to the controversy. This was

:01:18. > :01:21.already far too late and I'm reminded that the House of Commons

:01:22. > :01:27.first voted on the question of whether to have an inquiry in 2002

:01:28. > :01:32.on a conservative opposition motion. However for many of the length of

:01:33. > :01:36.the inquiry that was established has itself become subject to extensive

:01:37. > :01:42.criticism. Most of the reporting discussion of the Chilcot Inquiry

:01:43. > :01:46.has been preoccupied with the substance of the decision to go to

:01:47. > :01:50.war and its legality of what happened in the aftermath of the

:01:51. > :01:53.invasion. Yet there are also less and still to be learned regarding

:01:54. > :01:57.the machinery of Government and how it operated and regarding the

:01:58. > :02:08.conduct of public enquiries and this is what they agreed to focus on. The

:02:09. > :02:11.report launched today examines the extent to which Government --

:02:12. > :02:22.Government and decision-making was sidelined by the run-up to the Iraq

:02:23. > :02:27.war. Significant decisions on Iraq pre-conflict were taken without

:02:28. > :02:30.sufficient consultation of Cabinet colleagues. Chilcott concludes there

:02:31. > :02:34.were 11 decision points prior to the invasion on which and I quote there

:02:35. > :02:39.should have been collective discussion by Cabinet committee or

:02:40. > :02:43.small group of ministers on the basis of interdepartmental advice

:02:44. > :02:52.agreed at a senior level between officials. A worrying finding of

:02:53. > :02:56.PACAC's report is a future Prime Minister can override the procedures

:02:57. > :03:00.of collective decision-making without obstacle. Beyond making

:03:01. > :03:05.representations to ministers, and the Prime Minister and to the Prime

:03:06. > :03:10.Minister, short of resignation, Cabinet Secretary does not have any

:03:11. > :03:13.formal recourse to object if the Prime Minister chooses to disregard

:03:14. > :03:19.the procedures and decision-making as set out in the Cabinet manual.

:03:20. > :03:23.PACAC is in no doubt that this absence of safeguards cannot persist

:03:24. > :03:29.and this leads to our most important conclusion in this report. We

:03:30. > :03:33.therefore recommend in line with the proposal from the better Government

:03:34. > :03:38.initiative, that the Cabinet Secretary and or senior officials,

:03:39. > :03:41.should be able to acquire a formal letter of direction if they are

:03:42. > :03:46.being instructed to carry out the wishes of the Prime Minister

:03:47. > :03:51.disregarding the normal procedures set out in the Cabinet mandate. This

:03:52. > :03:57.was both safeguarding the independence and clarify the

:03:58. > :04:01.responsibility. It would make clear to ministers the vital importance of

:04:02. > :04:07.following proper procedures. The second key finding of PACAC's report

:04:08. > :04:11.relates to the establishment role and conduct of the Chilcot Inquiry

:04:12. > :04:18.itself and builds on the work of PACAC's predecessor which carried

:04:19. > :04:23.out a number of enquiries into the conduct of the public enquiries. It

:04:24. > :04:26.recommends in future before and inquiry is established, Parliament

:04:27. > :04:32.should set up an ad hoc Select Committee to take conclusions and

:04:33. > :04:36.recommendations to the House. There should then be a full debate and

:04:37. > :04:42.vote in parliament on an amendable motion setting out the precise terms

:04:43. > :04:45.of reference and an estimated time frame and a proposed budget for that

:04:46. > :04:53.inquiry. This should ensure expectations are much clearer at the

:04:54. > :04:57.outset of an inquiry. To has not sought to reopen all the issues

:04:58. > :05:01.explored by Chilcott, nor has it explored whether Parliament was

:05:02. > :05:05.misled by the then Prime Minister, The Right Honourable Tony Blair. By

:05:06. > :05:09.highlighting what the Chilcot Inquiry revealed about the

:05:10. > :05:11.weaknesses in the Government's decision-making procedures and by

:05:12. > :05:17.exploring what lessons can be learned from the Chilcot Inquiry, I

:05:18. > :05:21.hope we can ensure the process of plays that may enable such

:05:22. > :05:34.controversies to be avoided in future. I commend the report of the

:05:35. > :05:37.House. On Iraq, the British Cabinet, the overwhelming majority of this

:05:38. > :05:42.house, much of the media, the three Select committees, the civil

:05:43. > :05:46.service, security services or came to the same false conclusion

:05:47. > :05:50.resulting in a disastrous military adventure and the death of hundreds

:05:51. > :05:56.of thousands of people. There has been the usual unpredictable

:05:57. > :05:59.procrastination, prevarication and Ops location which has failed to

:06:00. > :06:04.reveal the truth to the British people as to what happened. The

:06:05. > :06:08.Select Committee is clear the Chilcott report has failed to allow

:06:09. > :06:12.them of the committee, to ask questions as to whether Parliament

:06:13. > :06:17.was deliberately misled leaving a gaping chasm right in the heart of

:06:18. > :06:22.the credibility of the British establishment. What a damning

:06:23. > :06:26.judgment after all these years. I welcome the recommendations in

:06:27. > :06:31.today's report and the independence of the Cabinet Secretary the frankly

:06:32. > :06:39.I see those recommendations are timid. Does the chair and his Select

:06:40. > :06:42.Committee agree with me that it will require root and branch

:06:43. > :06:46.transformative change in the whole of our political structures and

:06:47. > :06:53.culture before we can answer say again to the British people that

:06:54. > :07:03.there will never be such a failure? I am grateful to the right on the

:07:04. > :07:06.wooden man for his question. I voted for the Iraq invasion and I still

:07:07. > :07:10.don't know whether I would have voted the same way had we known much

:07:11. > :07:17.more about it. I think the really salient part of that is the lack of

:07:18. > :07:21.preparation and I would not have voted had I thought that there had

:07:22. > :07:27.been so little preparation. I think the jury is still out on whether in

:07:28. > :07:32.the long-term the invasion of Iraq will have been of benefit the global

:07:33. > :07:36.peace and security. On the question of whether Parliament was

:07:37. > :07:44.deliberately misled, we just did not feel qualified to make that judgment

:07:45. > :07:53.and we do not have the procedures and their were with all to conduct a

:07:54. > :07:57.fair trial of the fax there would need to be a very different kind of

:07:58. > :08:02.committee with very different judicial procedures to do that. We

:08:03. > :08:08.do suggest that have to be prepared to do that if further facts and

:08:09. > :08:15.information emerges but on that point, Sir John Chilcott was clear

:08:16. > :08:20.he did not hold the former Prime Minister culpable of deliberately

:08:21. > :08:28.misleading the House. We have to accept that view. I would just add

:08:29. > :08:32.that are our recommendations timid? They are limited to what we felt

:08:33. > :08:37.able to make recommendations about. Whatever structures and however you

:08:38. > :08:42.organise your politics, I'm afraid they're always going to be occasions

:08:43. > :08:45.when things go wrong and I don't think any constitutional structure

:08:46. > :08:48.can protect us from that though I think we have made recommendations

:08:49. > :08:57.that would prevent certain things happen again. Being a member of this

:08:58. > :09:02.Select Committee myself, I also come at it from a similar position as my

:09:03. > :09:06.honourable friend who chairs the committee with such distinction. I

:09:07. > :09:11.think it is reflected in the calibre of this report. I had my doubts

:09:12. > :09:15.whether my vote would have been different had we had more facts but

:09:16. > :09:19.again we take our votes in this house on facts that are presented to

:09:20. > :09:26.us and then we move forward. We don't get our time over again to

:09:27. > :09:33.relive our votes. In the report, one of the concerns that we were able to

:09:34. > :09:37.cover of the length of time and the unacceptable delays associated with

:09:38. > :09:41.its report. The Cabinet Secretary indicated the Government would

:09:42. > :09:45.consider further the question of how the Iraq enquiry could have been

:09:46. > :09:48.carried out more quickly. We have urged that this assessment comes as

:09:49. > :09:52.a matter of urgency and I wondered if my honourable friend had any

:09:53. > :09:56.indication as to the timescale on this or are we going to be waiting

:09:57. > :10:05.for it over a longer period of time as we did for the inquiry itself? We

:10:06. > :10:18.have until 35 minutes past to keep the answers completed. I thank her

:10:19. > :10:24.for her participation and the contribution to this inquiry. The

:10:25. > :10:30.answer is we are making recommendations. I very much doubt

:10:31. > :10:34.the Government is going to like them because it would limit their control

:10:35. > :10:40.over the process. Most governments establish public enquiries to look

:10:41. > :10:45.at issue is not open them up. A report is as much addressing what

:10:46. > :10:58.the House must take control of in order to make sure the inquiry is

:10:59. > :11:02.conducted better in future. The jury has been delivered and the former

:11:03. > :11:11.Prime Minister has been indicted and rightfully so. I would have liked to

:11:12. > :11:16.have seen more per RA -- formal devices. I congratulate them on the

:11:17. > :11:22.device of letter of direction. This is similar to financial direction.

:11:23. > :11:26.Perhaps you could say more about that and why he thinks it will be

:11:27. > :11:30.effective in avoiding the total absolute breakdown of collective

:11:31. > :11:34.responsibility which was identified in the Chilcott report. The second

:11:35. > :11:42.is Parliamentary accountability where the committee hasn't been able

:11:43. > :11:46.to make as much progress. If someone like the previous Prime Minister

:11:47. > :11:50.says one thing to be American President and something else or

:11:51. > :12:03.doesn't say something to the House of Commons is misleading. You can

:12:04. > :12:07.set up a series of enquiries -- inquries or you can spin it out to

:12:08. > :12:15.get a big enough remit and people ask why we are we going over it?

:12:16. > :12:19.There is no effective Parliamentary accountability and what I would like

:12:20. > :12:24.to ask the committee chair is can he see that the nature of Parliamentary

:12:25. > :12:27.accountability and our responsibility can be effected in

:12:28. > :12:33.his committee report of a mechanism produced so we have the obligation

:12:34. > :12:36.to take forward what our constituents demand and that is to

:12:37. > :12:43.hold any Prime Minister who behaves in the way of the previous minister

:12:44. > :12:47.to account in a proper and Timmy us fashion? The letter of direction

:12:48. > :12:52.shouldn't be a controversial matter because we already have it in our

:12:53. > :13:03.procedures with regard to financial matters. One or two former Cabinet

:13:04. > :13:07.secretaries are in support of it. It doesn't interfere with this

:13:08. > :13:11.substance of policy. It is Millie making sure proper processes covered

:13:12. > :13:16.and what we recommend is not that the list of direction might be at a

:13:17. > :13:20.sensitive time a sensitive issue, it should be made automatically public

:13:21. > :13:26.but we should recommend it should be made privately available at the

:13:27. > :13:31.choice of the Cabinet Secretary or to members of the Privy Council to

:13:32. > :13:36.the Leader of the Opposition. It is another lever for a Cabinet

:13:37. > :13:39.Secretary TQ is to secure their independence and to secure the

:13:40. > :13:44.proper process that Prime have agreed to in principle set down in

:13:45. > :13:48.the Cabinet manual. On the question of Parliamentary accountability and

:13:49. > :13:53.the Prime Minister, it remains open to this house to set up a special

:13:54. > :13:56.Select Committee, privilege committee, to establish proper

:13:57. > :14:01.procedures, to provide fair representation that the prosecution

:14:02. > :14:05.and the defence but this will be a complete new procedure. Nothing like

:14:06. > :14:09.this has been done in the era when we expect natural justice to be

:14:10. > :14:15.carried out to higher standards. We cannot have MPs who have known views

:14:16. > :14:22.on these issues, acting as some kangaroo court to Varane a former

:14:23. > :14:31.Prime Minister. It wouldn't do this house any good. With regards to the

:14:32. > :14:35.inquries, the Secretary of State for culture, media and sport is we are

:14:36. > :14:41.considering whether to reconvene the Levenson enquiry which has set fire

:14:42. > :14:46.50 months at a cost of millions of pounds. I wonder what advice he

:14:47. > :14:52.would give to the Secretary of State. I would suggest, as perhaps

:14:53. > :14:59.should have been done with the child sex abuse inquiry, ask for a

:15:00. > :15:04.committee to be set up, let's have an inquiry into the inquiry before

:15:05. > :15:13.you get stuck on the tram lines of legality and appointing people. Look

:15:14. > :15:18.before you leap, is the answer. Access that Government should not be

:15:19. > :15:21.able to establish inquries to get them out of difficulties. The House

:15:22. > :15:27.should be here to assist the scrutiny and here to oversee an

:15:28. > :15:33.inquiry is conducted in a timely fashion.

:15:34. > :15:42.I am a member of the Select Committee and supported the

:15:43. > :15:47.publication report, but it was not in a spirit of enthusiasm. I have

:15:48. > :15:51.some unease in a few phrases in the report which were subsequently

:15:52. > :15:54.corrected. In particular would he agree that we have inserted the

:15:55. > :16:00.possibility of a further enquiry, but not by Select Committee, but

:16:01. > :16:07.possibly by others if the evidence comes to light? I personally believe

:16:08. > :16:11.we were misled by the then Prime Minister on weapons of mass

:16:12. > :16:16.destruction and the pretext of war. I was one of the 139 Labour MPs who

:16:17. > :16:23.voted against the war and I stand by that decision and some of the unease

:16:24. > :16:27.was expressed by my honourable friend on the front bench as well. I

:16:28. > :16:34.wonder if the chairman would accept that I expressed some unease at the

:16:35. > :16:42.time, in particular further enquiries in future might be

:16:43. > :16:46.worthwhile. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman and he has been

:16:47. > :16:53.a trooper on this committee for a very long number of years. I do

:16:54. > :16:58.accept this was a difficult enquiry to agree on, though because we were

:16:59. > :17:02.concentrating on process and procedures rather than the substance

:17:03. > :17:07.of the issues, we had to accept some of the turn of the anxiety that so

:17:08. > :17:13.many people feel about this issue in our draft. I hope he felt able and

:17:14. > :17:16.comfortable to support this enquiry because the recommendations he fully

:17:17. > :17:26.supports and I am grateful to him for that. Does my honourable friend

:17:27. > :17:30.agree that the overriding lesson that most people will think we can

:17:31. > :17:40.learn from the Chilcott enquiry is that these reports take too long and

:17:41. > :17:46.cost too much? It is an extraordinarily thorough piece of

:17:47. > :17:50.work, this enquiry. I think Chilcott should be commended for what he

:17:51. > :17:55.achieved and the detail he went into and the seriousness with which he

:17:56. > :17:59.approached it, but it was not what the public initially expected. When

:18:00. > :18:03.you think the enquiry into the Crimean War which in some respects

:18:04. > :18:06.was a far bigger disaster and was conducted in the space of a few

:18:07. > :18:18.months, I think that is what the public hope for. There were various

:18:19. > :18:22.top-level things. There is a tremendous sense of obligation to

:18:23. > :18:26.provide people with fairness in enquiries which perhaps did not

:18:27. > :18:30.exist after the Crimean War, but I do think we need to set down

:18:31. > :18:37.parameters for this kind of enquiry and that is what a Select Committee

:18:38. > :18:44.would do if it studied the enquiry before it was set up. I listened

:18:45. > :18:50.with interest to what the honourable gentleman had to say. It is only by

:18:51. > :18:55.accident that I found this discussion was taking place right

:18:56. > :19:01.now and I have not read your report, but I have heard your statement and

:19:02. > :19:07.I have listened with interest and I think nobody would disagree with due

:19:08. > :19:13.process. I sent out a Twitter message two hours ago which said our

:19:14. > :19:18.thoughts are with the victims and survivors of Saddam Hussain

:19:19. > :19:25.genocidal campaign 28 years ago to this day. That is one of the reasons

:19:26. > :19:30.I and many others and the majority in this house voted for the war. I

:19:31. > :19:36.am most grateful to the right honourable lady and her kind

:19:37. > :19:41.intervention. If I may say so, that is one of the reasons I think it is

:19:42. > :19:45.important for us to make these statements because you engage more

:19:46. > :19:50.members. I regard this as a very serious piece of work with some very

:19:51. > :19:56.serious recommendations. I regard it as a piece of work that can be

:19:57. > :20:01.embraced by right honourable members of all views on the original

:20:02. > :20:04.conflict as a better way of making decisions in this government and as

:20:05. > :20:10.a better way of conducting public enquiries. As a member of this

:20:11. > :20:15.committee I would like to point out that Chilcott was there to identify

:20:16. > :20:20.mistakes which led to the loss of life, military and civilian. Seven

:20:21. > :20:24.years to come to conclusion is unacceptable. Those mistakes could

:20:25. > :20:28.have been repeated during that timescale. However, the committee

:20:29. > :20:31.wants to point out the Iraq inquiry reported that the Blair government

:20:32. > :20:39.did not expose key policy decisions to regular review and cabinet was

:20:40. > :20:43.when asked to confirm the decision that the diplomatic process was at

:20:44. > :20:49.an end and the House of commons should have been asked. Given the

:20:50. > :20:55.gravity of this decision the cabinet should have been made aware of the

:20:56. > :21:00.legal uncertainties. It would appear to be that the evidence provided to

:21:01. > :21:07.the Cabinet was designed to produce the result that the then Prime

:21:08. > :21:10.Minister was looking for. I think that is an accurate comment and I am

:21:11. > :21:16.also grateful to the honourable gentleman for his contribution to

:21:17. > :21:20.the committee and this report. But it cuts both ways. The Cabinet went

:21:21. > :21:25.along with being sidelined and Chilcott was quite clear about that.

:21:26. > :21:29.There were plenty ministers in the Cabinet who were quite content to

:21:30. > :21:34.make and to let others make decisions when they could have been

:21:35. > :21:39.consulted. We address had the legal advice was taken and explored by the

:21:40. > :21:43.Cabinet as well and we make recommendations about that. Our

:21:44. > :21:48.proposals would make it clear what Cabinet ministers can expect and are

:21:49. > :21:54.entitled to expect. It is not a favour to ask of the Prime Minister,

:21:55. > :21:57.it is part of a proper procedure of Cabinet government. We have a

:21:58. > :22:02.constitutional Cabinet government and that is what will be reinforced

:22:03. > :22:06.by these proposals. I am also a member of the committee but I am not

:22:07. > :22:10.supporting this report because I believe it has been interpreted by

:22:11. > :22:16.the press as an act of absolution for the previous Prime Minister

:22:17. > :22:20.involved and the others who were culpable and being led by him,

:22:21. > :22:24.principally the three select committees of this house. This was

:22:25. > :22:28.the worst blunder this house committed since sending troops into

:22:29. > :22:34.the sewers war. We should be objective in dealing with our own

:22:35. > :22:38.blunders and this report, whilst it has many merits, it does not deal

:22:39. > :22:48.with the truth of the time, that we were led into an avoidable war by a

:22:49. > :22:52.man of vanity whose messianic rule misled this house in a very serious

:22:53. > :23:02.way. The honourable gentleman's report does contain the evidence and

:23:03. > :23:06.there I two interpretations of the evidence before Chilcott and won the

:23:07. > :23:10.report suggests that should be referred might lead us to a

:23:11. > :23:18.conclusion that we did go to a war in vain. Of course we must remember

:23:19. > :23:23.the principal need here and that is to avoid sending other soldiers into

:23:24. > :23:26.war in future because of the vanity of this house, of the inflexibility

:23:27. > :23:31.of this house in making fair judgments. We have that

:23:32. > :23:37.responsibility. If we do not condemn the errors of the past, we are

:23:38. > :23:41.responsible for them. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman for his

:23:42. > :23:46.work to the committee and I respect we differed on this report and I

:23:47. > :23:51.appreciate the emphasis he want to make by declining to support this

:23:52. > :23:56.report. But it is open to this house at any time to reflect any matter to

:23:57. > :24:00.the committee privileges and there is a procedure for doing that and if

:24:01. > :24:06.he thinks there is a case for doing that, he should try and implement

:24:07. > :24:11.that procedure. But I think the difficulty is, as the Chilcott

:24:12. > :24:15.enquiry is self-centred, that there are two interpretations about this

:24:16. > :24:19.and there is nothing definitive in terms of evidence to suggest there

:24:20. > :24:24.was culpability in that the former Prime Minister deliberately sought

:24:25. > :24:29.to mislead the House. I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned,

:24:30. > :24:32.not least if I may say as an aside, that when it comes to a decision

:24:33. > :24:38.like this for the House to make an informed decision, it relies

:24:39. > :24:42.entirely on what government tells it. We are in a new era where the

:24:43. > :24:46.House is consulted about these things when it never used to be. We

:24:47. > :24:51.used to have rather more retrospective accountability for

:24:52. > :24:55.these matters rather than forward accountability and I question

:24:56. > :24:58.whether that works. I do not think is of commons is competent to make

:24:59. > :25:02.strategic judgments on the spur of the moment in the heat of a crisis

:25:03. > :25:09.in the same way that a government should be. As a new member in 2015 I

:25:10. > :25:14.was struck by the Chilcott experience and the unacceptable

:25:15. > :25:18.delay. But as taking decisions in this place is the honourable

:25:19. > :25:23.gentleman just said, we want to take educated decisions based on

:25:24. > :25:31.evidence. But more so for the families of the soldiers who died it

:25:32. > :25:35.was unacceptable. Can I ask him about the recommendations he made

:25:36. > :25:41.about a more strict re-met and timing for such enquiries? How can

:25:42. > :25:46.we take that forward in this house? Do we need to have a vote on it or

:25:47. > :25:52.is it the gift of the government to do so or not do so? Ultimately it is

:25:53. > :25:56.in the hands of this has, subject to whipping and all the pressures put

:25:57. > :26:01.on this house, but in the end it is in the hands of this has to decide

:26:02. > :26:06.how and enquiry is conducted. If they do not like it, we can stop it

:26:07. > :26:12.because we are a sovereign house. But I agree, the length of time this

:26:13. > :26:17.took was unacceptable. Not only did it undermine the credibility of the

:26:18. > :26:20.enquiry itself, it actually undermined the very confidence in

:26:21. > :26:26.public institutions that the inquiry was intended to restore. It did not

:26:27. > :26:30.serve the purpose that this house might have wanted it to serve

:26:31. > :26:35.because it took so long and it was a grievous torture for those who lost

:26:36. > :26:46.life and limb and the families of the bereaved. We come to the second

:26:47. > :26:52.committee statement which will follow the same procedure as the

:26:53. > :26:57.previous one. Sarah Wollaston. The scale of the bottom or loss of life

:26:58. > :27:08.from suicide is unacceptable. 4820 people in England took their own

:27:09. > :27:14.lives in 2015 and across the UK 6122 in 2014. But these official figures

:27:15. > :27:19.underestimate the true scale of the devastating loss from suicide. It

:27:20. > :27:24.remains the leading cause of death in young people between the ages of

:27:25. > :27:29.15 and 24, and it is the leading cause of death in men under 50. It

:27:30. > :27:36.is strongly linked to deprivation and a major contributor to health

:27:37. > :27:40.inequality. But the key message we heard throughout our inquiry is that

:27:41. > :27:44.suicide is preventable and there is far more that we can and should be

:27:45. > :27:51.doing to make sure that we reduce that. That was the key focus for our

:27:52. > :27:56.enquiry from the Health Select Committee into preventing suicide. I

:27:57. > :28:00.would like to thank all of those who contributed to the inquiry,

:28:01. > :28:05.particularly those who are from families bereaved by suicide and

:28:06. > :28:12.those who themselves had experienced suicidal tendencies and who had used

:28:13. > :28:14.the mental health services. Their evidence was courageous and

:28:15. > :28:19.compelling. I would like to thank all those voluntary groups working

:28:20. > :28:23.out there, and the volunteers, to provide support for people in crisis

:28:24. > :28:27.and to all our front-line staff. I would like to thank my fellow

:28:28. > :28:39.committee members and our committee staff. Moving on to what we found in

:28:40. > :28:43.our inquiry, first of all, we welcome the government was back

:28:44. > :28:47.suicide prevention strategy, but part of any strategy, the key is

:28:48. > :28:52.implementation. We call on the government to go far further in

:28:53. > :28:55.implementing the strategy and to re-sourcing it and to give greater

:28:56. > :29:01.attention to the workforce in order to make the very important

:29:02. > :29:05.considerations come forward. We also make further recommendations in that

:29:06. > :29:09.we were disappointed in a number of areas in that the government has not

:29:10. > :29:13.gone further. We know there are things we can do to reduce suicide

:29:14. > :29:17.and there are a number of these we highlight in our report. Half of

:29:18. > :29:23.those who take their own lives have self harmed and we feel it is really

:29:24. > :29:30.disappointing that so many of those with experience of self harm, their

:29:31. > :29:33.experience when they go to casualty departments means sometimes they are

:29:34. > :29:39.made to feel they are wasting people's time. We know psychiatry

:29:40. > :29:47.makes an enormous difference, but there are issues with liaising and

:29:48. > :29:51.psychiatry. Patients should receive a visit within three days of leaving

:29:52. > :29:56.inpatient services, but there simply are not the resources for that to be

:29:57. > :29:59.put into place. We call on the government to go further in looking

:30:00. > :30:05.at the workforce and resizing for this to take place.

:30:06. > :30:11.We know, as well, that there are serious issues in that around one

:30:12. > :30:16.third of people who take their own lives are not in contact with

:30:17. > :30:22.primary care or specialist services in the year of their death. Suicide

:30:23. > :30:26.is everyone's business, we all have a responsibility to reduce the

:30:27. > :30:31.stigma around mental health and make it easier for people to seek help. I

:30:32. > :30:37.pay tribute to all of those working in this field reaching out to those

:30:38. > :30:49.in non-health settings and making a real difference. Many of those

:30:50. > :30:51.voluntary groups are coming under great financial pressure. We know

:30:52. > :30:53.that it is welcome that the government has announced that there

:30:54. > :30:57.will be 5 million for suicide prevention but this doesn't come on

:30:58. > :31:02.until next year and we feel this is too little too late. Particularly in

:31:03. > :31:06.the context of cuts to public health grounds and the cuts that we know

:31:07. > :31:11.are happening in local authorities and with services that can reach out

:31:12. > :31:14.to those vulnerable to suicide. We die to see the government give a

:31:15. > :31:19.greater focus to adequately resourcing the measures they set out

:31:20. > :31:23.in their rooms so his side prevention strategy. Particularly,

:31:24. > :31:29.look at how those plans are implemented. It is welcome that 95%

:31:30. > :31:33.of local authorities have a suicide prevention plan in place or in

:31:34. > :31:37.development but there doesn't seem to be sufficient quality assurance

:31:38. > :31:42.about those plans so what we would all like to see is a national

:31:43. > :31:50.implementation board looking at how we can move these plans forward.

:31:51. > :31:57.However good the strategy, if it is not implemented cannot be effective.

:31:58. > :32:00.That was one of the key messages we heard from witnesses and I know that

:32:01. > :32:07.the Minister will have heard that from the National suicide prevention

:32:08. > :32:11.advisory board, very loud and clear. There are also things that we no

:32:12. > :32:16.need to happen when people are in contact with services. It is

:32:17. > :32:25.disappointing there hasn't been greater focus upon the consensus for

:32:26. > :32:31.information sharing. There are too many occasions on which the first

:32:32. > :32:37.people here that a loved one has taken their own life happening at

:32:38. > :32:44.that point. Subsequently, it is found out that their relatives had

:32:45. > :32:50.been in touch with services but no one had let them know. There are

:32:51. > :32:55.issues of consensual OT and consent but if you ask people in the right

:32:56. > :32:59.way they are much more likely to give that consent to information

:33:00. > :33:04.sharing and we would like to see the government putting greater focus on

:33:05. > :33:06.how we can increase awareness of how health professionals share

:33:07. > :33:12.information with people's loved ones. We believe that will save

:33:13. > :33:18.lives. Across the board, there measures that can be taken, both out

:33:19. > :33:20.in the community and in health care settings, and in specialist

:33:21. > :33:27.settings, but the minister will know that we also look at the role of the

:33:28. > :33:32.media because irresponsible reporting of suicide rates. We know

:33:33. > :33:37.this. There is far more that can be done within the broadcast media,

:33:38. > :33:43.mainstream media, social media and the Internet to make sure that we

:33:44. > :33:49.save lives. I was very pleased that the Secretary of State has agreed to

:33:50. > :33:53.meet. I hope the Minister will liaise with them to ensure that we

:33:54. > :34:03.can save lives in that way. Finally, the issue of data. There is an

:34:04. > :34:08.increasing use of narrative verdict is that our hard to code. The

:34:09. > :34:14.official data does under represent the true scale of the avoidable loss

:34:15. > :34:18.of life. The issue is that because we have huge variation around the

:34:19. > :34:22.country it makes it much more difficult to understand what works

:34:23. > :34:29.best in preventing suicide. We would like the Minister to revisit the

:34:30. > :34:36.recommendations on our report about how we provide better training to

:34:37. > :34:40.coroners and how we also review the evidential standard and move from

:34:41. > :34:43.beyond reasonable doubt to the balance of probability in recording

:34:44. > :34:48.suicide because only in that way can we make sure that we are doing

:34:49. > :34:52.absolutely everything possible to protect families and individuals in

:34:53. > :34:56.the future. So, I commend this report on suicide prevention to the

:34:57. > :35:07.house and call on the government to go further in implementation will

:35:08. > :35:17.stop thank you. Can I say first that labour welcomes the recommendations

:35:18. > :35:24.in this report. The committee visited the award-winning Salford

:35:25. > :35:30.liaison team, a team which has halved admission rates of people

:35:31. > :35:32.with mental health problems. The Royal College of psychiatrists

:35:33. > :35:38.reminds us that only half of services provide liaison services 20

:35:39. > :35:43.47 and they said it would be difficult to recruit enough staff to

:35:44. > :35:47.provide a liaison psychiatry service in every hospital. The honourable

:35:48. > :35:52.lady touched on that in her statement. Can she say what she

:35:53. > :35:57.thinks the government must do to insure there are enough trained

:35:58. > :36:00.staff to ensure there are sustained liaison psychiatry services in every

:36:01. > :36:08.Acute Hospital to help deliver the strategy. We need to start right

:36:09. > :36:12.back at medical school recruitment and what happens in medical school

:36:13. > :36:21.and beyond to encourage more health pressure -- professionals to

:36:22. > :36:27.consider psychiatry and mental health services as a career. One of

:36:28. > :36:31.the key issues is the lack of a workforce. The government is trying

:36:32. > :36:35.to improve and work with health education England to improve this

:36:36. > :36:38.but we would like to see them go further and looking at resource is

:36:39. > :36:45.really need to make sure that resources get to the front line. Can

:36:46. > :36:51.I congratulate the honourable lady on her chairmanship of the committee

:36:52. > :36:56.and the recent report. She will know that recent studies, particularly in

:36:57. > :37:02.Sweden, have indicated that people with- shunning autism spectrum have

:37:03. > :37:08.ninefold increase in suicide risk. Could she say something about what

:37:09. > :37:12.more could be done to help these individuals and their families and

:37:13. > :37:17.how we raise awareness with those who intervene with this group so

:37:18. > :37:26.they are aware with this group of the problems. I would congratulate

:37:27. > :37:31.the honourable lady for what she has done in her whole career in

:37:32. > :37:37.highlighting the problems of autism and the families involved. The key

:37:38. > :37:43.thing is to have an assessment in the first place, too often people

:37:44. > :37:47.with autism fall between the gaps in the health service. That would be my

:37:48. > :37:50.key message around making sure that they receive the services and

:37:51. > :37:58.support they need and it is delivered in the right way. I would

:37:59. > :38:04.congratulate the honourable member for Totnes in bringing this critical

:38:05. > :38:11.issue to the house and speak in full support of this paper. I declare an

:38:12. > :38:18.interest in the patron of Chris's House, the first 24-hour

:38:19. > :38:23.interventionist suicide support service in Scotland. We set up to

:38:24. > :38:28.offer a safe environment where people in crisis may have respite

:38:29. > :38:34.from their current and wellness by finding refuge in Chris's house and

:38:35. > :38:37.providing an individually tailored programme to offer support and

:38:38. > :38:44.respite throughout their journey to well-being. I would urge others

:38:45. > :38:50.across the UK to look at this more interventionist model and replicated

:38:51. > :38:57.to the benefit of all UK citizens. I would urge all to joiners on the

:38:58. > :39:03.26th of May in Glasgow as we walk from that list to light to raise

:39:04. > :39:09.awareness of suicide prevention. I thank the honourable gentleman and

:39:10. > :39:12.join him in pain should be to voluntary groups doing extraordinary

:39:13. > :39:18.work to reach out to people in crisis. One of the key issues is the

:39:19. > :39:21.level of variation in this kind of support and the financial challenge

:39:22. > :39:29.that people face around the UK in supporting them properly. Can I also

:39:30. > :39:34.thank my honourable friend very much indeed for the work that she and her

:39:35. > :39:40.committee have done on this issue. The suicide rate among men is three

:39:41. > :39:46.times that of that among women and that gap has increased since 1981.

:39:47. > :39:52.It is the leading cause of death for men under the age of 50. One

:39:53. > :39:55.particular problem is that of contagion where one suicide can lead

:39:56. > :40:03.to a state of others within the same area. Does my honourable friend and

:40:04. > :40:08.her committee Turing the enquiry identify how this particular aspect

:40:09. > :40:16.could be dealt with? -- during the enquiry. We did mention this

:40:17. > :40:19.specifically in the report. He will know that part of this is

:40:20. > :40:27.irresponsible reporting that leads to this, we also know that where

:40:28. > :40:30.local areas work closely together to identify suicides and identify

:40:31. > :40:35.particularly where there are early clusters, there are measures that

:40:36. > :40:38.can be taken to go into workplaces, schools, and colleges to provide

:40:39. > :40:45.support and stop this but it does require noticing early. So we urge

:40:46. > :40:49.coroners to work with local authorities and public health teams

:40:50. > :40:57.to ensure they are aware of the high risk of this spreading. Many thanks.

:40:58. > :41:03.I'd like to thank the committee and honourable lady for their report and

:41:04. > :41:08.welcomed the recommendations in particular that we should commit to

:41:09. > :41:14.rolling out crisis intervention teams and efforts to prevent suicide

:41:15. > :41:19.so that people can be followed up directly. Suicidal individuals are

:41:20. > :41:27.not always mentally ill and awaiting treatment and attendance at urgency

:41:28. > :41:33.are are not always relevant. I would like to ensure liaison between

:41:34. > :41:37.services because only when this occurs in a seamless way between

:41:38. > :41:41.health, community services and criminal justice will we prevent

:41:42. > :41:50.suicidal individuals from falling between the gaps. Thank you for

:41:51. > :41:53.highlighting that important point about communication within families

:41:54. > :41:57.and within services. One of the problems can be that you have what

:41:58. > :42:01.happens in local authorities and what happens in the health service

:42:02. > :42:10.and too often there is insufficient communication between the two. I

:42:11. > :42:15.congratulate the honourable lady on her work and that of the select

:42:16. > :42:19.committee. In the mid-to thousands there was a series of tragic

:42:20. > :42:24.suicides in the Bridgend area that forms part of my constituency. I

:42:25. > :42:30.wasn't a member of this house when they took place but it is a major

:42:31. > :42:34.part of people's memories in those communities. I want to focus on the

:42:35. > :42:39.media attention. There was a film made about the suicides that was not

:42:40. > :42:44.welcomed by the various communities and I'm glad that she is pursuing as

:42:45. > :42:49.part of the report tackling the glorification of suicide in the

:42:50. > :42:55.media. If you could put it like that. I wonder if she would consider

:42:56. > :43:00.sharing her select committee's report with the Welsh government

:43:01. > :43:04.health and social care committee because I passionately believe that

:43:05. > :43:10.where we can implement best practice from all sectors, whether in the

:43:11. > :43:16.evolved assemblies, we should be sharing that to tackle suicides

:43:17. > :43:21.across the UK. I would be delighted to meet with him and share that. I

:43:22. > :43:25.agree that we should be sharing best practice across the devolved nations

:43:26. > :43:32.and England. The point about the role of the media, there are really

:43:33. > :43:36.clear guidelines that have been produced by Samaritans and I hope

:43:37. > :43:40.all media organisations will look at that very closely and we should go

:43:41. > :43:48.beyond broadcast and print media and look at social media and the

:43:49. > :43:52.Internet as well. I would like to welcome the health select

:43:53. > :43:54.committee's report into suicide prevention and congratulate my

:43:55. > :44:00.honourable friend and her committee for their work on this very

:44:01. > :44:06.important issue. I would also like to join her in my thanks to those

:44:07. > :44:11.who bravely contributed to the work of the committee. Every death by

:44:12. > :44:16.suicide is a tragedy which has a devastating effect on communities

:44:17. > :44:23.and that is why the government is committed to reducing the rate of

:44:24. > :44:26.death by suicide by 10% by 2021. We were particularly grateful to the

:44:27. > :44:30.committee who published their interim report in December which

:44:31. > :44:35.allowed us to address many recommendations in our update of the

:44:36. > :44:39.National strategy and this did include driving local delivery,

:44:40. > :44:43.addressing stigma, improving bereavement services and increasing

:44:44. > :44:47.awareness of the consensus statement for information sharing for people

:44:48. > :44:54.at risk of suicide but we do accept that we need to go further on

:44:55. > :44:59.implementing the cross government suicide prevention strategy. That is

:45:00. > :45:04.why we published the strategy to strengthen key areas including

:45:05. > :45:11.implementation. It is why will continue to provide further updates.

:45:12. > :45:14.It continues with Jess is self harm as an issue in its own right which

:45:15. > :45:21.is one of the most significant issues of suicide risk. We are

:45:22. > :45:23.working with the advisory group and delivery partners across government

:45:24. > :45:28.and other agencies and stakeholders to develop and improved

:45:29. > :45:32.implementation framework. We are making good progress insuring all

:45:33. > :45:37.local areas have suicide plan in place by the end of the year. We

:45:38. > :45:42.have 95% of local areas with a suicide prevention plan in place or

:45:43. > :45:45.in development but we are also going to work with local areas to assess

:45:46. > :45:50.the quality of those plans building on guidance of good practice and we

:45:51. > :45:53.have run a series of suicide prevention masterclass is carried

:45:54. > :45:59.out by Public Health England to improve that quality. We have also

:46:00. > :46:03.published guidance in January on improving bereavement services as an

:46:04. > :46:08.important plank of the plan. Furthermore, we will publish a green

:46:09. > :46:11.paper on young people's mental health and develop a national

:46:12. > :46:18.Internet strategy which will explore the in fact -- impact on suicide

:46:19. > :46:20.prevention and mental health to address some of the issues she has

:46:21. > :46:32.raised around media and suicide. We have committed to all A having

:46:33. > :46:37.core services to deliver this ambition and we will be publishing

:46:38. > :46:42.our mental health workforce strategy which I am sure the committee will

:46:43. > :46:48.carefully scrutinised and we will carefully consider all the

:46:49. > :46:54.recommendations made in this report and respond. Does she agree that we

:46:55. > :46:58.cannot think about suicide without considering the broader question of

:46:59. > :47:02.mental health? Will she and the committee join me in welcoming the

:47:03. > :47:09.wide range of measures set out by the Prime Minister in January with a

:47:10. > :47:13.focus on earlier intervention and prevention in mental health

:47:14. > :47:16.services? These improvements will be essential if we are to make the

:47:17. > :47:24.progress of suicide prevention that all of us in this has want to see. I

:47:25. > :47:27.had my honourable friend and agree with absolutely about the importance

:47:28. > :47:31.of prevention and early intervention and I look forward to the strategies

:47:32. > :47:36.she has referred to and to working with her to do all we can to improve

:47:37. > :47:44.mental health and to reduce the terrible from suicide. We now come

:47:45. > :47:50.to the backbench motion on energy prices. John Penrose to move. I move

:47:51. > :47:56.the motion which stands in my name and my co-sponsors from Don Valley

:47:57. > :48:00.and North Ayr and carrot. I shall start by thanking the backbench

:48:01. > :48:06.business committee for finding the time to debate this important and

:48:07. > :48:10.topical motion today, as well as banking my two co-sponsors, plus the

:48:11. > :48:21.50 or so MPs from across the political spectrum who all feel the

:48:22. > :48:25.way most energy customers are being treated is so I'm just so as to

:48:26. > :48:30.raise it here in Parliament. Customer loyalty is hugely

:48:31. > :48:34.important, an asset to be price, whether it is a supermarket's

:48:35. > :48:39.loyalty card, an airline's airline scheme or a copy card that gives you

:48:40. > :48:43.a free cup of coffee after they have stamped it ten times. Most

:48:44. > :48:47.businesses reward their most loyal customers with special treatment to

:48:48. > :48:53.keep them coming back. Except for energy. What other industry does not

:48:54. > :48:57.give their most loyal customers any disk as ordeals, but charges them

:48:58. > :49:01.higher prices than anyone else instead? Which company is believed

:49:02. > :49:08.loyalty should be exploited, not rewarded? Who treat their longest

:49:09. > :49:13.serving customers as chumps, to be switched on to expensive and unfair

:49:14. > :49:19.deals when they are not looking and then ripped off mercilessly for as

:49:20. > :49:24.long as possible. The big six energy firms, I'd Deputy Speaker, that is

:49:25. > :49:29.who. The rest of the industry is pretty good. There are 30 or more

:49:30. > :49:36.new firms snapping at the heels of the big six and they understand

:49:37. > :49:40.loyalty matters if you want to grow. I am grateful to my honourable

:49:41. > :49:45.friend for giving way. There has been a huge roll-out of smart meters

:49:46. > :49:54.which is one way of keeping an eye on energy bills. But unfortunately

:49:55. > :49:59.when people do switch providers they find that their smart meter often

:50:00. > :50:03.has to be replaced at the same time. Does my honourable friend agree this

:50:04. > :50:08.is why some people are unwilling to change providers? There are many

:50:09. > :50:12.reasons why switching has not caught on to anything like the degree we

:50:13. > :50:19.needed to if we are to transform this sector. One of the factors may

:50:20. > :50:23.very well be this problem with smart meters, but there are others as

:50:24. > :50:31.well. I will point at others as well later on in my speech. There are 30

:50:32. > :50:35.or more newish firms snapping at the heels of the big six who understand

:50:36. > :50:40.loyalty matters. Some are more impressive than others, but they all

:50:41. > :50:43.have one thing in common. They are hungry, they know they have got to

:50:44. > :50:50.impress and delight their clients because they cannot exploit a black

:50:51. > :50:56.book of long-running customers to stay fat and happy. Roughly two

:50:57. > :50:59.thirds of all customers, at least 20 million households, are on the

:51:00. > :51:04.expensive, rip-off deals, the standard variable tariff. While a

:51:05. > :51:10.minority of customers switched to a different energy supplier regularly,

:51:11. > :51:13.most of us do not. The amount of switching has been creeping upwards,

:51:14. > :51:18.but a lot of the change has been the same bargain hunters churning around

:51:19. > :51:24.an ever faster circles between different energy firms. The number

:51:25. > :51:29.of households who have never switched remains stubbornly high

:51:30. > :51:32.which suits the big six just fine. What is the answer? How do we put

:51:33. > :51:38.energy customers in the driving seat? Giving them the same powers to

:51:39. > :51:46.choose a new energy supplier as easily as we switch a new brand of

:51:47. > :51:51.toothpaste or coffee. Firstly, we have got to make switching a lot

:51:52. > :51:56.easier. Choosing that different brand of toothpaste is easy, you

:51:57. > :51:59.pick up a different tune of the shelf, but too many people find

:52:00. > :52:04.switching to a different energy firm scary and stressful and they are

:52:05. > :52:08.frightened off. Even the price comparison sites who have an

:52:09. > :52:12.interest in making the process is simply and as easy as possible lose

:52:13. > :52:17.huge numbers of customers who abandon their search the moment they

:52:18. > :52:22.are asked something simple like what is your current energy usage? Some

:52:23. > :52:25.people think switching will go wrong so they could end up cold and

:52:26. > :52:29.shivering in a house without power if the move does not happen

:52:30. > :52:36.smoothly. My honourable friend has already mentioned the fact that

:52:37. > :52:42.smart meters have an impact in some households at least. Some of us have

:52:43. > :52:47.not got time, leading busy lives juggling schools, child care, jobs

:52:48. > :52:51.and what else. Switching our energy supply is one of those things we all

:52:52. > :52:56.know we ought to do, but we never quite get round to doing. The

:52:57. > :53:01.difference is that those other products do not automatically switch

:53:02. > :53:05.you to a super expensive brand of toothpaste or copy unless you tell

:53:06. > :53:09.them not to. They do not expect you to be on your toes all the time to

:53:10. > :53:15.stop them changing use the terms of your deal and ripping you off. But

:53:16. > :53:20.toothpaste, copy and everything else, loyalty and inertia works in

:53:21. > :53:26.the customer's favour, but not with energy. If you relax, they will have

:53:27. > :53:31.you. There are simple things that will make switching easier, less

:53:32. > :53:35.stressful and not so scary. A main one is making your customer data

:53:36. > :53:42.easily available to a new energy firm. That way we do not have to

:53:43. > :53:47.fill in endless online pages with information we cannot remember we

:53:48. > :53:51.have not got. At the moment the information can take days to come

:53:52. > :53:54.through and the big six floating obstacles along the way. They have

:53:55. > :54:01.no interest in making the process simple. We should just be able to

:54:02. > :54:07.ask our new firm to get it from an existing supplier in a few seconds

:54:08. > :54:12.with the tick of a box or the press of a mouse. Simple, easy and safe.

:54:13. > :54:16.The number of people switching would go through the roof if we get this.

:54:17. > :54:23.There are end to end services provided... The honourable member is

:54:24. > :54:27.making a good point, but will he agree also it is more problematic

:54:28. > :54:33.for example for people who live in tower blocks where the energy supply

:54:34. > :54:39.is collectively made by the landlord who might not have any incentive to

:54:40. > :54:43.switch to another supplier? My them Deputy Speaker, the honourable

:54:44. > :54:48.gentleman is right. One of the things that might be improved by the

:54:49. > :54:52.roll-out of smart meters would be to break down some of those collected

:54:53. > :55:01.bills. The concern amongst many in the industry is that smart meters

:55:02. > :55:05.may be overinvested in too many hopes and they will not produce a

:55:06. > :55:09.lasting uplift in the levels of customer engagement in chess. They

:55:10. > :55:14.would start off as an interesting and new gadget, but after a few

:55:15. > :55:21.months that interest may die away. But he is right, there is an

:55:22. > :55:25.opportunity there. In the spirit of making switching easier, there are

:55:26. > :55:32.end to end services provided by terms like Flipper, which do the

:55:33. > :55:35.donkey work for us, handling everything from finding a better

:55:36. > :55:40.deal to organising the switch itself. They appeal to those of us

:55:41. > :55:47.who think even the most convenient price comparison sites take too much

:55:48. > :55:51.of our time as well. Would my honourable friend not agree part of

:55:52. > :55:55.the problem with the big six and other generators is they are not

:55:56. > :55:59.straightforward and honest with their customers and stakeholders?

:56:00. > :56:05.Until they are straightforward and honest they will be this disquiet at

:56:06. > :56:09.their conduct. That is I think one of the underlying concerns about

:56:10. > :56:14.this industry and the way it operates. Because they have not

:56:15. > :56:19.necessarily been asked at the moment when they are switched on to the

:56:20. > :56:23.default tariff, they feel when they notice it, if they notice it, they

:56:24. > :56:28.are being ripped off because those default tariffs are so much higher

:56:29. > :56:32.and that leads to distrust in the suppliers and that is corroding the

:56:33. > :56:39.underlying level of trust in the industry as a whole. It is

:56:40. > :56:43.incredibly dangerous. Some forward thinking people in the industry

:56:44. > :56:48.understand the brand damage being done not just to individual firms,

:56:49. > :56:52.but to the sector as a whole. It is slow to gain that trust. The

:56:53. > :56:56.honourable gentleman has a background in marketing and consumer

:56:57. > :57:03.business and he will understand what I mean. If we can look at the

:57:04. > :57:07.effects of these end to end services I was mentioning, introducing them

:57:08. > :57:12.and rolling them out should introduce another new group of

:57:13. > :57:16.customers who do not switch at all. But they will be persuaded to do so

:57:17. > :57:20.in future, extending the number of people in that is that when two

:57:21. > :57:29.thirds of the customer base who do not switch. These changes taken

:57:30. > :57:32.together are essential steps to solve the underlying, fundamental

:57:33. > :57:38.problems which make the energy market such a rip off. If the

:57:39. > :57:42.government, Ofgem and even enlightened energy firms themselves

:57:43. > :57:48.are willing to take them, the abuses will start to fall and customers

:57:49. > :57:50.will finally be in the driving seat like we already are and expect to be

:57:51. > :58:00.with everything else from toothpaste to copy to cornflakes and so on. But

:58:01. > :58:05.how quickly will the rip-offs stop? Will there be stubborn pockets of

:58:06. > :58:13.resistance left over? Given that two thirds of all these customers are on

:58:14. > :58:20.those rip-off tariffs, there is an awfully long way still to go. Even

:58:21. > :58:23.the most optimistic scenarios, an unacceptably large number of houses

:58:24. > :58:30.will still be ripped off for a few more years yet. We need a stop gap,

:58:31. > :58:35.a temporary solution whilst all those other ideas start to work and

:58:36. > :58:39.take effect. The answer is a relative price cap, a maximum

:58:40. > :58:45.mark-up between each energy firm's best deal and their default tariff.

:58:46. > :58:51.Once your existing deal comes to an end, if you forget to switch, you

:58:52. > :58:55.will not be ripped off too badly. But there will still be plenty of

:58:56. > :58:58.money you can save when you get round to switching again, so it will

:58:59. > :59:04.be worth your while to become engaged and take that additional

:59:05. > :59:10.action. Energy firms will still be able to compete on price, they could

:59:11. > :59:16.still decide if they want to be the Waitrose, the Marks Spencer or the

:59:17. > :59:20.Lidl of the industry. They could still have as many tariffs as they

:59:21. > :59:29.wanted so there could be plenty of customer choice. If you wanted a

:59:30. > :59:35.Green energy tariff, that would be fine. If you do not want an ink

:59:36. > :59:38.deal, no problem. I am delighted to confirm that this idea for a

:59:39. > :59:44.relative cap is supported by three of the largest challenger brands.

:59:45. > :59:47.They cover hundreds of thousands of customers between them and I hope to

:59:48. > :59:56.persuade others to join them in due course. Crucially, a relative cap is

:59:57. > :00:02.rather better, a lot better, than a normal price cap. The relative cap

:00:03. > :00:06.means each energy firm can still adjust their prices when the

:00:07. > :00:11.wholesale price goes up or down, but a normal one means Ofgem has to

:00:12. > :00:16.approve any changes which will be slower and create work for lawyers

:00:17. > :00:21.and lobbyists. A relative cap also means energy firms still have plenty

:00:22. > :00:25.of incentives to innovate, finding new ways to please groups of

:00:26. > :00:26.customers in whatever way they want without needing Ofgem's approval

:00:27. > :00:40.first. Putting customers in the drivers

:00:41. > :00:46.seat means fewer fat fees and lunches for the lobbyists. If

:00:47. > :00:53.customers can switch their supply as easy as changing their cornflakes,

:00:54. > :00:57.the customer and the regulators will matter a lot less than we did in

:00:58. > :01:04.this area. A relative cap means we can deregulate, striking out reams

:01:05. > :01:10.of other regulations, red tape and other issues that complicate the

:01:11. > :01:19.market stopping energy firms from thinking about their customers first

:01:20. > :01:23.and thinking about their lawyers and compliance directors instead. A

:01:24. > :01:28.relative cap reduces red tape rather than adding to it. The people who

:01:29. > :01:34.will hate the relative cap the most will be the big six. It will force

:01:35. > :01:39.them to treat consumers fairly and reward loyalty rather than exploit

:01:40. > :01:42.it. To find it hard to keep long-standing customers rather than

:01:43. > :02:00.to take it for granted. In other words, to be a normal business

:02:01. > :02:03.thinking about the customer first. The secretary of State and Prime

:02:04. > :02:07.Minister have been trenchant of their criticisms of how the sector

:02:08. > :02:10.is not delivering an economy that works for everyone. So I hope they

:02:11. > :02:16.will accept the thrust of this motion that the time for action has

:02:17. > :02:21.come. We simply cannot argue, as others have tried to do, that even

:02:22. > :02:25.though two thirds of the country are being ripped off, we aren't going to

:02:26. > :02:30.help protect those victims because it is their own silly fault if they

:02:31. > :02:42.are not savvy enough to switch. Yes, we need to make switching easier and

:02:43. > :02:44.safer so that most of us do it most of the time, that's clearly the

:02:45. > :02:47.right long-term answer. Until that glorious day, I hope this does will

:02:48. > :02:51.accept that we cannot sit back and allow consumers to be harmed on this

:02:52. > :03:00.scale for this long and nothing. We need to do more. The question is as

:03:01. > :03:09.on the order paper. Point of order, Alex Salmond. We raised the point

:03:10. > :03:14.about a prime ministerial statement on the Scottish contest you

:03:15. > :03:23.shouldn't that was -- on the Scottish constitution. That

:03:24. > :03:30.statement has been made as interpreted as being to bounce a

:03:31. > :03:34.vote next Tuesday. The Prime Minister seems to be dictating the

:03:35. > :03:37.timing of any referendum. These points were put to the pro Minister

:03:38. > :03:42.at Prime Minister's Question Time yesterday and she had full and fair

:03:43. > :03:48.opportunity to give her answer. You understand that the act of

:03:49. > :03:53.Parliamentary accountability is if that there is a change of policy,

:03:54. > :03:58.members of Parliament can prepare to ask questions about it. Questions

:03:59. > :04:07.like what if the Scottish parliament is not bounced and votes for a

:04:08. > :04:10.referendum next week. Fundamentally, the arrogance that says to the

:04:11. > :04:17.people in Scotland that they shall not have the right to have an act of

:04:18. > :04:22.self determination, or say to the parliament that we do not have a

:04:23. > :04:28.right of examination. Have you had a request from the Prime Minister to

:04:29. > :04:32.come to this dispatch box and, for Parliamentary accountability or does

:04:33. > :04:38.she feel that Scotland is some sort of county rather than the country

:04:39. > :04:44.that it is. I will thank the honourable gentleman for that

:04:45. > :04:50.contribution. I was not here when he made his previous point of order and

:04:51. > :04:55.the speaker made his response to the honourable gentleman. I have not

:04:56. > :04:58.seen or heard any statements from the Prime Minister but he has now

:04:59. > :05:05.put all of his questions and concerns on the record and we now

:05:06. > :05:13.move on to Ian Wright. Thank you very much. Can I congratulate the

:05:14. > :05:17.honourable gentleman, the member for Weston-Super-Mare. An honour to

:05:18. > :05:20.follow his speech. He is passionate and knowledgeable and very measured

:05:21. > :05:29.about some of the things with regard to the energy market, so I pay

:05:30. > :05:35.tribute that he and his colleagues have been able to secure this

:05:36. > :05:41.important debate. It affects all of our constituents, millions of people

:05:42. > :05:45.up and down the country. I thank the backbench business committee for

:05:46. > :05:50.agreeing it take place. It's very clear that the energy park it is not

:05:51. > :05:56.a market which is working in the best interests of customers. That is

:05:57. > :06:03.not to say that there is somehow some degree of collusion between the

:06:04. > :06:06.energy companies. Far from it. There are quite different price strategies

:06:07. > :06:11.between the major energy companies to the point that there is a

:06:12. > :06:15.difference of about ?140 for dual fuel customers between the major

:06:16. > :06:21.suppliers. As the honourable gentleman said, there have been

:06:22. > :06:26.welcome new entries into the energy market, disrupting in a positive way

:06:27. > :06:30.the energy oligopoly we have seen for far too long. Bringing in

:06:31. > :06:35.innovative companies offering better choice, services and value to the

:06:36. > :06:41.customer. Ten years ago, the big six customers dominated the entire

:06:42. > :06:47.market. 100% market share. Last year, that move to 85%. Good,

:06:48. > :06:53.positive news. New entrants are taking market share and offering

:06:54. > :06:57.competitive fixed term deals. I said earlier, there is no evidence of

:06:58. > :07:00.collusion between the energy companies but there are marked

:07:01. > :07:05.similarities between their business models and they do not act in the

:07:06. > :07:10.best interests of their customers. They actually punish customer

:07:11. > :07:13.loyalty. Their business models are predicated on a sizeable proportion,

:07:14. > :07:18.if not the majority of their customer base will be and will

:07:19. > :07:22.continue to be indefinitely on the standard variable tariffs. Of the

:07:23. > :07:36.big six companies, British Gas have 74% of its customers on its STB, the

:07:37. > :07:46.others have similar or greater proportions. -- SVT. These are in

:07:47. > :07:53.the main the most expensive of all the tariffs are available. Yet, half

:07:54. > :07:58.or more of all customers have been with the same supplier for five

:07:59. > :08:03.years or more. It's almost guaranteed that those households

:08:04. > :08:07.will be overpaying for their energy. The CMA estimated that the lack of

:08:08. > :08:13.competition in the market means that customers are overpaying for their

:08:14. > :08:16.energy to the collective Choon of about ?1.4 billion. Despite all of

:08:17. > :08:25.that, despite the very clear evidence that the market is not

:08:26. > :08:29.working in the marketplace, energy companies continue to penalised

:08:30. > :08:33.loyalty. The more you are with a company, the more you are likely to

:08:34. > :08:45.pay. Which of the market could possibly state that? Now, Ofgem

:08:46. > :08:53.stated categorically that they did not see a case for a significant

:08:54. > :08:58.rise. Wholesale costs have risen by about 15% in the past year, however,

:08:59. > :09:10.the overall cost of energy was marginally below what it was three

:09:11. > :09:15.years ago. The big six and Veolia behave in a culture of entitlement.

:09:16. > :09:21.We need to address that culture. These companies need to address that

:09:22. > :09:25.culture. I think the honourable gentleman is absolutely right. A

:09:26. > :09:28.market has to be dynamic and companies should be nervous of

:09:29. > :09:33.customers moving away. They are not doing that at the moment. Their

:09:34. > :09:38.business models are predicated on the fact that people for a variety

:09:39. > :09:43.of reasons stay on the expensive tariff, not moving, and because of

:09:44. > :09:47.that they can provide loss leading deals for new customers but, in

:09:48. > :09:53.terms of customer loyalty, they simply scoff at that. That is not a

:09:54. > :09:58.market that is working in anybody's interest. It's not dynamic,

:09:59. > :10:06.efficient, or effective and it is ultimately not benefiting our

:10:07. > :10:14.customers. It is the way these companies treat their regulators and

:10:15. > :10:24.this place and there will elect a representatives. -- and their

:10:25. > :10:30.elected representatives. It is about the teeth that we provide in

:10:31. > :10:35.regulation to provide a dynamic market. Wholesale costs of energy

:10:36. > :10:41.are big part of an energy bill that ultimately goes to the customer.

:10:42. > :10:45.But, as I said, the actual cost of energy is marginally below what it

:10:46. > :10:49.was three years ago. Companies hedge their risks when it comes to

:10:50. > :10:53.purchasing energy and that should flatten price spikes they experience

:10:54. > :10:59.when they are buying on the global market. That might mean that we tell

:11:00. > :11:05.prices to customers might not fall as quickly and sharply when

:11:06. > :11:10.wholesale fall but it should stop price hikes when wholesale prices

:11:11. > :11:15.rise. We have seen no evidence of that whatsoever. In announcing the

:11:16. > :11:21.big price rise, the biggest for many years, last month, Npower stated, I

:11:22. > :11:25.quote from their website "Over the past few years the cost of supplying

:11:26. > :11:30.energy to your home has increased, as has the amount we need to pay to

:11:31. > :11:38.government schemes." Allow me to defend the government here. Quite

:11:39. > :11:42.robustly. I think that phrase, from Npower and other companies, about

:11:43. > :11:48.the cost of government schemes, is simply wrong. The Committee on

:11:49. > :11:52.Climate Change have published its analysis on energy prices and

:11:53. > :11:57.household costs and it shows that 9% of the average dual fuel bill for

:11:58. > :12:01.domestic customers is made up of moving towards a low carbon

:12:02. > :12:06.electricity supply and support for energy efficiency home improvements.

:12:07. > :12:10.The notion that energy companies can justify price increases on

:12:11. > :12:15.government action and policies is simply disingenuous. My honourable

:12:16. > :12:20.friend is making an important port and it's worth reading that report

:12:21. > :12:26.from the Committee on Climate Change. Would he also accept that

:12:27. > :12:29.part of that 9% is to help people reduce their bills by the

:12:30. > :12:35.introduction of energy efficient measures to help some of the poorest

:12:36. > :12:46.in our communities to keep their bills down. So it is a worthwhile 9%

:12:47. > :12:49.investment. Absolutely. As well as tackling things like fuel poverty

:12:50. > :12:57.and the carbonisation targets it means that energy efficiency

:12:58. > :13:01.measures are a key plank of that. Everybody wins when energy

:13:02. > :13:06.efficiency is prioritised. Very grateful to my honourable friend who

:13:07. > :13:11.is making a very good case. Would he agree with me that energy efficiency

:13:12. > :13:15.measures when introduced, for example in tower blocks, or

:13:16. > :13:20.sometimes in low-rise properties, can become Piketty to use and if not

:13:21. > :13:27.used properly can be more expensive to the consumer? Would he agree that

:13:28. > :13:31.there is a powerful case, I had two examples in my constituency over the

:13:32. > :13:35.last few years, where people have ended up paying more for a lower

:13:36. > :13:40.standard of heating. Is there a case for the government to issue guidance

:13:41. > :13:45.to local authorities and registered social landlords about how to

:13:46. > :13:50.install these systems and how to inform tenants about how they are

:13:51. > :13:55.supposed to be used. My honourable friend has made a very powerful

:13:56. > :13:59.point. I was in the chamber when he made an earlier intervention about

:14:00. > :14:02.switching supplies and how people in tower blocks are often unable to do

:14:03. > :14:09.that. It is another vivid illustration that the market is not

:14:10. > :14:12.working in the interests of consumers. Often those could be

:14:13. > :14:19.low-wage, vulnerable households. It's a case that the government and

:14:20. > :14:28.the regulator need to put steps in place in order to make sure that

:14:29. > :14:35.this market works. Now, Ofgen told us that companies largely hadn't be

:14:36. > :14:40.successful in controlling costs. Efficient companies have been able

:14:41. > :14:46.to absorb the cost increases and have passed on those benefits to

:14:47. > :14:51.consumers in eliminating the risks of rising graces. Others have not

:14:52. > :14:54.done so. They feel that they don't have too consider customers because

:14:55. > :14:58.customers will not switch and will continue to stay on the most

:14:59. > :15:03.expensive tariffs. Customers are literally paying the price for the

:15:04. > :15:04.failure of energy companies to manage their businesses and control

:15:05. > :15:14.costs. I said it not just being about cost.

:15:15. > :15:21.This is about customer service and a lack of trust in energy companies.

:15:22. > :15:26.There are huge examples. Every honourable member has cases in their

:15:27. > :15:32.inbox with regards to this. Citizens Advice Bureau told us the companies

:15:33. > :15:36.are getting the basics wrong. Late bills, missing bills, inaccurate

:15:37. > :15:39.bills and failing to provide customers with redress when

:15:40. > :15:45.companies have got things wrong. This is a market that is not

:15:46. > :15:49.working. What is the solution? The current policy response seems to be

:15:50. > :15:53.a jewel approach, which is to encourage companies to engage with

:15:54. > :15:58.the customers in a more efficient way and to communicate widely the

:15:59. > :16:02.benefits that come from switching. Switching should be encouraged and

:16:03. > :16:07.customers could make savings of hundreds of pounds if they switch.

:16:08. > :16:14.On the back of recent price rises from energy companies are switched

:16:15. > :16:19.for our house and we saved ?249. There are big savings to be made and

:16:20. > :16:25.I would encourage customers to switch, switch and switch again. It

:16:26. > :16:28.has to be encouraged. As the honourable gentleman for

:16:29. > :16:33.Weston-Super-Mare did say, a small proportion do switch and base which

:16:34. > :16:37.often. These are savvy customers who know the market and want to get the

:16:38. > :16:43.best possible deal, but that is relatively rare. The vast majority

:16:44. > :16:49.do not switch and that is for a wide variety of reasons, whether it is

:16:50. > :16:59.thinking can I switch? Am I not still with the local electricity

:17:00. > :17:06.board? Will it be too complex? I am frightened of switching. People lead

:17:07. > :17:11.busy lives. In terms of a central utility like this people do not

:17:12. > :17:17.consider it. I do not think it is efficient to say the energy market

:17:18. > :17:21.will be fixed by encouraging more engagement. There needs to be a fair

:17:22. > :17:25.deal for all customers, those two thirds who do not switch, not just

:17:26. > :17:31.those who do. The government often talks a good game when it comes to

:17:32. > :17:36.tackling the energy crisis. When it was revealed in the autumn energy

:17:37. > :17:39.companies were making high profits, the Secretary of State hold them in

:17:40. > :17:46.for an explanation, but nothing materialised. When NPower raised

:17:47. > :17:49.their prices last month, a spokesman said we are concerned by these

:17:50. > :17:54.planned increases and are committed to get the best for ourselves.

:17:55. > :18:00.Suppliers have been protected in wholesale energy prices which I said

:18:01. > :18:04.two years in advance. We expect them to treat customers fairly. Where

:18:05. > :18:15.markets are not working, we are prepared to act. This week in answer

:18:16. > :18:20.to a question from me the secretary of state said time is up, but no

:18:21. > :18:25.action has been taken. Customers will have to endure in the next

:18:26. > :18:29.days, weeks and months high-priced rises with no action taken

:18:30. > :18:35.whatsoever. The regulator says the price rises are not justified.

:18:36. > :18:39.Number ten says they are concerned. The department has had energy

:18:40. > :18:43.companies hold in, but nothing has been done. This does not seem to

:18:44. > :18:49.reflect the urgency that should be given to this issue. The key point I

:18:50. > :18:53.would like to say is for the minister when he responds, how is

:18:54. > :18:59.the government going to act and act now to ensure customers get a better

:19:00. > :19:03.deal? The honourable gentleman for Weston-Super-Mare has an important

:19:04. > :19:09.policy response suggestion when it comes to a restricted price cap.

:19:10. > :19:13.This could be an important means of providing customers with some

:19:14. > :19:17.respite. He mentioned a number of energy companies that have put

:19:18. > :19:22.forward this idea. Some of the quotes from the people who run these

:19:23. > :19:29.energy companies are quite striking. Stephen Fitzpatrick, Chief Executive

:19:30. > :19:33.of Ovo said the energy market was failing because companies were,

:19:34. > :19:38.quote, free to charge whatever they think they can get away with at the

:19:39. > :19:43.expense of disengaged or confused customers. The time has come for the

:19:44. > :19:49.government to step in and take bold action to protect consumers'

:19:50. > :19:53.interests. Greg Jackson, chief executive of Octopus Energy. Energy

:19:54. > :20:00.customers are being robbed in broad daylight, he says. Robbed in broad

:20:01. > :20:04.daylight. It is time for decisive action to end the misery for

:20:05. > :20:13.millions. Will the government look favourably upon the general idea of

:20:14. > :20:18.a price cap. At that time of crippling price rises from companies

:20:19. > :20:21.seemingly indifferent to the plight of customers there needs to be a

:20:22. > :20:27.fundamental change to ensure that the market works for all. In his

:20:28. > :20:30.response the minister must set out the detailed steps he will take both

:20:31. > :20:36.immediately and in the longer term to act in the interests of customers

:20:37. > :20:44.and set out a timetable. The time for strong words, for green papers,

:20:45. > :20:47.for future legislation, is over. If the regulators say there is no

:20:48. > :20:53.justification for price increases and the Prime Minister is saying

:20:54. > :20:58.action needs to happen, why can't we have action now? Customers are

:20:59. > :21:03.facing price rises now. We do not have to wait for a green paper in

:21:04. > :21:10.the months to come, we need to act immediately. What is the government

:21:11. > :21:15.going to do now? I want to congratulate the member from

:21:16. > :21:18.Weston-Super-Mare for this debate today and the backbench business

:21:19. > :21:25.committee and Mike honourable friend from Don Valley. I also want to pick

:21:26. > :21:35.up where my honourable friend from Hartlepool left of and that is in

:21:36. > :21:38.regards to the government. The party opposite has changed their leader

:21:39. > :21:43.and in the process they seem to have changed some of their policies and

:21:44. > :21:48.thought we would not notice. To be honest it is not good enough. Many

:21:49. > :21:58.members had campaigned very hard on this issue of energy and the pricing

:21:59. > :22:03.of energy, however the former Prime Minister David Cameron said his

:22:04. > :22:07.government would legislate to ensure customers receive the lowest

:22:08. > :22:12.possible tariffs. That was the words of the Prime Minister. The current

:22:13. > :22:18.Prime Minister, Theresa May, has refused to honour that pledge. I do

:22:19. > :22:22.not understand why. Even after standing on the steps of number ten

:22:23. > :22:26.she promised to look after vulnerable people which must include

:22:27. > :22:32.those people who suffer from fuel poverty, older people, people with

:22:33. > :22:34.English as a second language, those who cannot switch easily, these are

:22:35. > :22:38.vulnerable people who are not being vulnerable people who are not being

:22:39. > :22:42.protected by this government. It is proving to be all talk from the

:22:43. > :22:48.government which is a real shame on this important issue. The government

:22:49. > :22:53.must stop and must act to stop the jump in energy prices or they could

:22:54. > :22:59.adopt one of Labour's policies, again they are used to adopting our

:23:00. > :23:04.policies, and renationalise the energy companies, or they could

:23:05. > :23:07.listen to the Mayor of London. He has innovative ideas in regards to

:23:08. > :23:13.providing energy to people in London. At the end of the day the

:23:14. > :23:19.price hike is a bitter blow to millions of families. It will add

:23:20. > :23:24.more than ?100 to the typical bill. When people are struggling to make

:23:25. > :23:28.ends meet this is not good enough. This is one of the largest ever

:23:29. > :23:34.increases we have seen and it is unacceptable. Fuel poverty awareness

:23:35. > :23:39.day, quite recently, brought home the reality of the situation of fuel

:23:40. > :23:44.poverty across the country. Families were faced with an agonising

:23:45. > :23:52.decision on whether to heat or eat. We have seen a rise in food banks as

:23:53. > :23:57.a result. Last year we had the first ever fuel bank based in my

:23:58. > :24:01.constituency. It was to help residents especially on prepayment

:24:02. > :24:08.meters get through the winter and get through difficult times. How the

:24:09. > :24:13.food banks came to this conclusion that it was necessary was they found

:24:14. > :24:16.people were approaching them and asking for only food intends, food

:24:17. > :24:21.that could be eaten cold because when they were given food that

:24:22. > :24:26.needed to be cooked they did not have the money on their meter to do

:24:27. > :24:33.that. Lots were surviving on baked beans for instance. You think more

:24:34. > :24:37.should and must be done. I have been campaigning on energy prices for

:24:38. > :24:43.many years now, my constituents have struggled with energy bills. More

:24:44. > :24:52.and more people came to my surgery problems and hardest-hit would those

:24:53. > :24:56.on prepayment meters. The House of commons library figures show they

:24:57. > :25:03.pay 15% more on their gas bill and direct debit customers. I launched a

:25:04. > :25:08.campaign which lots of members participated in across all sides of

:25:09. > :25:12.the House I must say. I called on the government to ensure that their

:25:13. > :25:16.tariffs were made for all and following this campaign the

:25:17. > :25:20.competition 's markets authority recommended a cap on prepayment

:25:21. > :25:24.meters must be implemented. This was a significant victory and I was

:25:25. > :25:32.really pleased because it will reduce the cost of prepayment

:25:33. > :25:38.customers, but not by enough, only about ?80. The price penalty on

:25:39. > :25:43.prepayment customers can be as much as ?320, so there is still a lot

:25:44. > :25:48.more that needs to be done. One in five families are being hit by the

:25:49. > :25:52.prepayment penalties and they are often do just about managing

:25:53. > :25:58.families. These are the people that the Prime Minister often talks

:25:59. > :26:06.about, that very same people that the party opposite's PR machine goes

:26:07. > :26:09.into overdrive, saying they are the party that represents these people.

:26:10. > :26:16.If they are, surely they would do something about this? This lack of

:26:17. > :26:21.being able to heat homes means that people live in damp homes and it is

:26:22. > :26:30.reckoned cold related ill-health costs the NHS around ?1.36 billion

:26:31. > :26:33.each year. If we want to help the National Health Service, if we want

:26:34. > :26:38.to help just about managing families, this is one step that can

:26:39. > :26:44.be done and can be done very quickly if there is a will on the opposite

:26:45. > :26:51.benches to do that. Fuel poverty is a massive problem. It affects over 4

:26:52. > :26:56.million UK households and in my constituency one in eight households

:26:57. > :27:02.are classified as fuel poor, higher than the national average of one in

:27:03. > :27:06.ten. The Labour Party will continue to work towards ending fuel poverty

:27:07. > :27:09.and when in government we will put energy efficiency back on the

:27:10. > :27:19.agenda. Struggling families need more than warm words from this

:27:20. > :27:23.government, they need warm homes. Thank you very much, Mr Deputy

:27:24. > :27:27.Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow my honourable friend from Brent

:27:28. > :27:35.Central. Can I congratulate her on the work she has done serving those

:27:36. > :27:40.families overreliant on meters? Also listening to her contribution,

:27:41. > :27:45.whilst I have a number of people living in the private rented sector

:27:46. > :27:49.in my constituency, I am sure it is far higher in her constituency and

:27:50. > :27:56.it is a big problem for tenants were landlords are not doing enough to

:27:57. > :28:00.make sure where their homes are rented out are not decent homes with

:28:01. > :28:06.proper energy-efficient measures in them. I know she will continue

:28:07. > :28:15.campaigning on that work. I would like to thank the responders to this

:28:16. > :28:20.debate. We helped to secure the support of some 50 other honourable

:28:21. > :28:26.and right honourable members to attend this important debate. My

:28:27. > :28:33.thanks to the backbench business committee, Parliament was my own

:28:34. > :28:39.Dragons Then. It was only 45 minutes before going in that I realised it

:28:40. > :28:43.was going to be broadcast. We were successful to secure this debate for

:28:44. > :28:52.today. It is well known to family and friends that I love the movies.

:28:53. > :28:56.Thank you. It is still on my bucket list to be an extra in one. I am

:28:57. > :29:06.putting back out there today. Thank you. One of my favourite comedy is

:29:07. > :29:19.Groundhog Day will stop the character has to play a single day

:29:20. > :29:24.all the time. We are replaying the energy issue again today. They are

:29:25. > :29:29.points I have been making for the past six years. The ministers keep

:29:30. > :29:34.changing but I am still here and I hope today the minister, like Bill

:29:35. > :29:41.Murray in the film, will break this spell. Not for the first time

:29:42. > :29:50.headlines have been filled as honourable members have mentioned

:29:51. > :29:54.already with price hikes, hikes that I believe are completely

:29:55. > :29:59.unjustified. But that is not the principal reason for this debate.

:30:00. > :30:04.The reason we sort this debate is to address the fact that energy market

:30:05. > :30:09.is not working. It is failing Britain's consumers in almost every

:30:10. > :30:13.respect. The energy market does not promote effective competition. The

:30:14. > :30:15.regional giants remained the dominant players in their home

:30:16. > :30:28.region is some 30 years later. We talk about the big six but for

:30:29. > :30:40.many regions it is the big one. The energy market does not promote

:30:41. > :30:45.transparency. In 1986, and 1989 there were a succession of mergers

:30:46. > :30:52.and takeovers. This led to the companies being both conservatives

:30:53. > :30:57.and generators of power. So we are left with pretty much the same

:30:58. > :31:00.corporate structures. One consequence is a lack of

:31:01. > :31:06.transparency over the price these companies sell energy to themselves

:31:07. > :31:11.before retailing to the problem. That is something that Labour's

:31:12. > :31:18.reforms advanced in 2015 would have resolved. The market does not

:31:19. > :31:22.promote consumer confidence. The issue is not whether superficially a

:31:23. > :31:29.company offers a fixed-price deal for ?150 less than another, the

:31:30. > :31:37.issue is why 88% of customers refuse to switch from one supplier to

:31:38. > :31:46.another. When a survey was done on 7000 consumers, 56% had never

:31:47. > :31:53.switched supplier or did not recall switching and 72% had never switched

:31:54. > :31:56.tariff with an existing supplier. This is a long-standing crisis of

:31:57. > :32:02.consumer confidence. The vast majority seem to want little or

:32:03. > :32:08.nothing to do with the energy companies. This is not a sign of

:32:09. > :32:12.millions of satisfied customers. Quite the opposite. The CMA have

:32:13. > :32:24.found that the amount of comp points rolled sixfold from 2008-14. The

:32:25. > :32:29.proportion of domestic complainant who were very dissatisfied with how

:32:30. > :32:36.their complaint was handled significantly increased over a

:32:37. > :32:41.two-year period. Npower 67% of very dissatisfied. ScottishPower 64%.

:32:42. > :32:50.Even the medium and small companies were not immune. We cannot let them

:32:51. > :32:54.off the hook. First utility firms worst, 63% dissatisfied. So, the

:32:55. > :32:59.government presides over a domestic energy market that is not

:33:00. > :33:03.competitive, lacks transparency and has a lot of dissatisfied consumers.

:33:04. > :33:08.Those factors alone should ring alarm bells in Whitehall and

:33:09. > :33:14.Westminster. It is the outcome for consumers that ensures that the

:33:15. > :33:19.government must act. The outcome of all the secrecy, the dominance by a

:33:20. > :33:23.few uncompetitive companies and disillusioned, and trusting customer

:33:24. > :33:27.base, largely disengaged, all leads to one certain outcome. A consistent

:33:28. > :33:35.failure of the market to offer fair prices. It should be no surprise to

:33:36. > :33:39.any others regional monopolies, both secret and inefficient, low customer

:33:40. > :33:44.engagement and unresponsive pricing, that is why this debate is so

:33:45. > :33:53.important today. I said this market does not offer fair prices. Let me

:33:54. > :33:57.illustrate this central criticism. First, the big six energy giants

:33:58. > :34:03.account for 85% of the market and treat their long-standing customers

:34:04. > :34:08.worse, those customers without exception will be paying for energy

:34:09. > :34:15.on the most expensive default tariff. The only group treated worse

:34:16. > :34:19.are the customers with a prepayment meeting either because the landlord

:34:20. > :34:24.requires it or they have a poor credit history. This group has risen

:34:25. > :34:33.to 16% of all households. Even the CMA could not ignore that... As well

:34:34. > :34:43.as paying in advance for their energy. I am looking to provide a

:34:44. > :34:48.cap on the charge for these customers. That does not count those

:34:49. > :34:56.customers who are overcharged year after year. Even the CMA could not

:34:57. > :35:02.fully explain the overcharging. Their best estimate was that between

:35:03. > :35:07.2012-15 the average amount overcharged was something like ?1.5

:35:08. > :35:21.billion per year, reaching almost 2 billion by 2050.

:35:22. > :35:31.This is before any of the current price hikes came into effect. They

:35:32. > :35:39.concluded that in any one year, the detriment, the amount overcharged,

:35:40. > :35:45.was made up of about ?600 million, a year, in excess profits and the

:35:46. > :35:50.remainder, about ?850 million, was down to inefficiencies. Whatever

:35:51. > :35:59.they may be. What it points to is bad management by some very highly

:36:00. > :36:04.paid individuals. The honourable lady is making a very compelling

:36:05. > :36:10.case. She also did in the Dragons Den pitch for this debate with me.

:36:11. > :36:14.She's absolutely right about the CMA figures showing such horrendous

:36:15. > :36:19.levels of customer detriment. Not only is it that bad but the gap

:36:20. > :36:23.between what the standard variable tariff price charged and the

:36:24. > :36:28.wholesale price charged has been getting wider over the last four

:36:29. > :36:33.years at so it's a bad and getting worse as time goes by. Exactly. We

:36:34. > :36:39.have the historical evidence and month by month people are still

:36:40. > :36:43.paying far too much for their energy bills. It is astonishing that this

:36:44. > :36:47.is happening in what is meant to be a competitive market. It's clear

:36:48. > :36:51.that the excessive profit margin made from standard variable tariff

:36:52. > :36:55.customers provides no encouragement to move these customers to a better

:36:56. > :37:01.deal. I believe it's a bankrupt business model. Because if were all

:37:02. > :37:05.admitting and even the energy companies have to face up to this

:37:06. > :37:11.that they are paying over the odds, they have a model based on that. If,

:37:12. > :37:15.for example, all these customers miraculously moved to a lower tariff

:37:16. > :37:21.tomorrow, where would these companies the left? The inertia is

:37:22. > :37:28.compounded by a management approach that doesn't seem to want any form

:37:29. > :37:33.of effective change. The more government has publicly urged

:37:34. > :37:37.consumers to switch to save the mother companies are absolved of any

:37:38. > :37:43.responsibility to move customers to a better deal. A sticky, passive,

:37:44. > :37:49.unengaged customer base suits these firms down to the ground. When EDF

:37:50. > :37:53.automatically back in 2012 moved vulnerable elderly customers onto

:37:54. > :37:59.their cheapest tariff, sadly, other suppliers did not follow up with

:38:00. > :38:03.what I think was some evidence of ability to inform themselves of

:38:04. > :38:08.better practice. This CMA's final report concluded that to eliminate

:38:09. > :38:13.the overcharging, prices would have to fall across the board by an

:38:14. > :38:19.average of 3% per year between now and 2020. It hoped that measures to

:38:20. > :38:23.promote switching would create more competition in the market and have a

:38:24. > :38:27.downward effect on prices but they were reluctant to say how successful

:38:28. > :38:34.they expected that to be because the problem that the CMA faces is that

:38:35. > :38:38.the UK has an energy market with unhappy consumers, a dysfunctional

:38:39. > :38:49.pricing mechanism and companies that are largely immune to competitive

:38:50. > :38:54.pressures. Ofgem reported that the highest level of switching for six

:38:55. > :38:59.years has occurred but it is still less than 12% of households and I

:39:00. > :39:06.worry that we have a two tier energy market. On the one hand, an active,

:39:07. > :39:10.informed class of consumer energy conscious, Internet savvy, shopping

:39:11. > :39:15.around, managing their account online and a far bigger, less

:39:16. > :39:22.informed, less engaged, less Internet savvy discontented

:39:23. > :39:30.majority. She is second to none in her knowledge of energy policy. I'd

:39:31. > :39:34.be interested to get her thoughts in terms of policy fixes. Does she

:39:35. > :39:40.think the regulator has powers but not use them all as the regulator

:39:41. > :39:46.need more powers to help fix this broken market? I know that there are

:39:47. > :39:52.powers the regulator has in its back pocket. It can intervene if it

:39:53. > :39:59.thinks the market is uncompetitive, it can actually, if necessary, from

:40:00. > :40:04.what I understand, actually take, if you like, customers from a company

:40:05. > :40:09.that is failing and hold them up to get a better deal elsewhere. That is

:40:10. > :40:12.within their powers already but I think we need government to take

:40:13. > :40:18.responsibility and part of the debate today is to look at whether

:40:19. > :40:23.it is the relative price cap, or what I would suggest, as well,

:40:24. > :40:29.similar to it, a protective tariff for these people, if not permanent,

:40:30. > :40:33.temporary to fix this market. Let's be clear, more reform is needed in

:40:34. > :40:37.this market and the regulator while I wish it would use its powers and

:40:38. > :40:42.was very slow to do this, it's beaded up in recent years, there's

:40:43. > :40:47.more they could do but there's more government could provide them with

:40:48. > :40:52.to do a better job. We have heard that one of the CMA proposals is

:40:53. > :40:56.that data on customers should be shared so that other energy

:40:57. > :41:02.suppliers can send their offers to customers. The problem is, people

:41:03. > :41:08.would be bombarded with leaflets, e-mails, from operators in a sector

:41:09. > :41:13.where trust is so low, will they trust this marketing any more than

:41:14. > :41:18.they do already. It is the very people immune to direct mail,

:41:19. > :41:21.annoyed by calls from would-be suppliers, and mistrustful of the

:41:22. > :41:27.whole industry who are not being held by any of the measures put

:41:28. > :41:31.forward since the CMA report. By encouraging switching and a shared

:41:32. > :41:35.database for companies to market new tariffs to each other's customers,

:41:36. > :41:39.the CMA believed that price competition can be made to work but

:41:40. > :41:43.I'm afraid the shared database seems to be a new label for an old

:41:44. > :41:49.solution. We've had six years of trying to be of consumer benefit by

:41:50. > :41:53.switching, six years of abject failure. I have to say to the

:41:54. > :41:57.Minister, is it really realistic to assume that for 28 million

:41:58. > :42:03.households, they will be able to reduce their average bills by 3% a

:42:04. > :42:15.year, as the CMA have indicated, for every year between 7017 and 2020. --

:42:16. > :42:20.2017. Even if it eliminated the detriment it would not repaid 1p of

:42:21. > :42:26.the money already taken from consumers. I see no mechanism in the

:42:27. > :42:30.CMA's prescription that could achieve the objective they have set.

:42:31. > :42:36.Customers who have remained on a standard default tariff for other

:42:37. > :42:41.companies to prey on will not in itself make this market more

:42:42. > :42:52.competitive. In March, Ofgen publish that the cheapest available tariffs

:42:53. > :42:58.was 22% cheaper than the average, but it does not identify how long

:42:59. > :43:02.that tariff lasts. What if it wasn't widely available, what if everybody

:43:03. > :43:11.switched to the new best value tariff? What if 12% of customers get

:43:12. > :43:18.a saving of 20% on their bills. That might notionally cut average bills

:43:19. > :43:22.by 2%. But it would not reduce the detriment by 1p for the 88% of those

:43:23. > :43:29.who don't switch. The penalty incurred by the vast majority would

:43:30. > :43:31.remain. Also among the CMA's recommendations, price comparison

:43:32. > :43:37.websites will no longer have two display every deal available on the

:43:38. > :43:43.market. Those websites might only display those companies that give a

:43:44. > :43:49.commission. The majority will see no gain. The vast majority pay the

:43:50. > :43:53.default standard variable tariff and enjoy prices going up and down as

:43:54. > :43:59.the energy provider chooses, are left at the mercy of their supplier

:44:00. > :44:05.in the CMA has already identified as consistently overcharging. They

:44:06. > :44:16.cannot rely on wholesale charges to save them because there is no

:44:17. > :44:25.obligation to pass on wholesale price the creases to customers.

:44:26. > :44:31.Wholesale gas prices fell while prices rose. This could only happen

:44:32. > :44:36.in the dysfunctional market. Where can consumers get fairness? The only

:44:37. > :44:40.avenue the majority have is the government. The one agency with the

:44:41. > :44:48.powers to change the game at a stroke. How long will the public

:44:49. > :44:55.have to wait before the government acts as the public champion. In

:44:56. > :45:00.October 2011, the Prime Minister convened an energy summit they were

:45:01. > :45:05.going to write to millions of consumers about switching, it didn't

:45:06. > :45:12.work. In 2013, Mr Cameron tried a different approach, getting rid of

:45:13. > :45:24.all the green rubbish, as was reported. The big six like to

:45:25. > :45:31.disperse prices onto green levels even though it is exerting downward

:45:32. > :45:34.pressure on prices. It's ironic the amount of energy we consume as

:45:35. > :45:54.domestic users has gone down per kilowatt hour but we're paying more.

:45:55. > :46:05.When he said get rid of the green numbers, he did. Mr Cameron always

:46:06. > :46:08.ridiculed Labour's energy price freeze, a proposal to cap prices for

:46:09. > :46:16.20 months whilst the market was reformed. Instead in 2014 he

:46:17. > :46:22.announced a CMA investigation and its final report in June 20 entirely

:46:23. > :46:28.vindicated Labour's concern about unfair energy prices. We now have it

:46:29. > :46:32.on the record from one of the government's regulators. Britain's

:46:33. > :46:38.consumers were ripped off year after year for four years, that we know.

:46:39. > :46:47.It is an ?8 billion scandal and every month that financial

:46:48. > :46:52.punishment on customers grows. What do we want? My plea to the

:46:53. > :46:59.government is simple, recognise the scale of the problem. Recognise that

:47:00. > :47:03.what has now become like a gimmick, switching campaigns can only scratch

:47:04. > :47:07.the surface and will never get to the problem. Recognise that this

:47:08. > :47:11.industry needs reform and until it is reformed, the government needs to

:47:12. > :47:19.produce price protection for consumers. I first argued for this

:47:20. > :47:25.after the general election in 2015. Consumers need a regulated maximum

:47:26. > :47:30.charge that companies can levy and an acceptable level of profit. I do

:47:31. > :47:34.not believe it can be left to the companies to do this. Any voluntary

:47:35. > :47:40.measure is welcome, but it has been too piecemeal. We need the

:47:41. > :47:46.government to act. We know Ofgem is capable of a protective tariff

:47:47. > :47:52.calculation. They have just done it for the 5 million prepayment

:47:53. > :47:55.customers. We still have price regulation in Northern Ireland.

:47:56. > :47:59.Majority of countries in the European Union still have price

:48:00. > :48:05.controls of one sort or another. This is not thwarted by the EU, we

:48:06. > :48:10.cannot blame the EU Brexit for the government's failure to address this

:48:11. > :48:13.injustice. This problem lands at the doorstep of Number ten and the

:48:14. > :48:17.government department which the minister represents today. The

:48:18. > :48:22.government has the power and the means to end the fairness in our

:48:23. > :48:28.energy market, or at least to offer a temporary respite as they have for

:48:29. > :48:31.prepayment customers. In November the Secretary of State said,

:48:32. > :48:36.customers who are loyal to their energy suppliers should be treated

:48:37. > :48:41.well, not taken for a ride, and it is high time the big companies

:48:42. > :48:44.recognised this. I have made clear to the big firms this cannot go on

:48:45. > :48:50.and they must treat customers properly or be made to do so. I say

:48:51. > :48:54.to the Minister, now is the time. This problem will not go away and I

:48:55. > :48:58.urge the government to listen to voices on all sides of this house

:48:59. > :49:04.who believe the current energy market does not receive or serve the

:49:05. > :49:10.British people well. The time to act is overdue. It is a pleasure to

:49:11. > :49:15.follow my right honourable friend, the member for Don Valley, if I feel

:49:16. > :49:20.a little bit daunted to speak after that tour de force. She is second to

:49:21. > :49:27.none in her knowledge of this issue. I would like to congratulate the

:49:28. > :49:37.honourable member for Weston-Super-Mare. It is good to

:49:38. > :49:40.join a cross-party platform in urging the government to do

:49:41. > :49:44.something to stop these companies from ripping their customers off.

:49:45. > :49:49.They have been getting away with it for far too long. The right

:49:50. > :49:55.honourable member for Don Valley has been campaigning for fair energy

:49:56. > :49:59.prices for the past six years. If adopted determination was enough to

:50:00. > :50:06.secure victory, it would have paid off long before now. Despite talking

:50:07. > :50:14.big on energy reform, the government has failed to act. They quietly

:50:15. > :50:18.dropped in a promise in 2012 to force companies to switch customers

:50:19. > :50:23.to their lowest tariff and despite the rhetoric about cutting the green

:50:24. > :50:28.rubbish, failing to ensure reductions it made to environmental

:50:29. > :50:35.and other obligations resulting in lower energy bills. It is true they

:50:36. > :50:39.have cut prices on prepayment meters, but I agree we need action

:50:40. > :50:47.for all standard variable tariff customers. In recent weeks we have

:50:48. > :50:54.seen NPower and SSE raise their prices by 15% and another three of

:50:55. > :51:02.the large companies have increased their bills for jewel energy

:51:03. > :51:07.customers. Wholesale prices only increase from a low base. Many of

:51:08. > :51:11.these rises have been piled onto electricity to ensure that as people

:51:12. > :51:17.start turning their heating bills will remain high over the summer.

:51:18. > :51:22.This is grotesquely unfair that the current structure penalises the most

:51:23. > :51:26.loyal customers and those who are the most vulnerable. Almost ?200

:51:27. > :51:36.difference between a company's cheapest tariff and its standard

:51:37. > :51:41.variable rate, and 15% war for customers on gas only than on other

:51:42. > :51:46.tariffs. The Observer newspaper estimated this is the equivalent to

:51:47. > :51:54.a halfpenny rise on income tax. With 70% of big six customers on standard

:51:55. > :51:59.variable tariff is this means the companies are making record profits.

:52:00. > :52:04.Their profits increased tenfold between 2007 and 2013. Rises are

:52:05. > :52:10.hitting the poorest households particularly hard. Those households

:52:11. > :52:15.are far less likely to switch. Energy bills now account for 10% of

:52:16. > :52:23.spending in the poorest House of Commond compared with 5.5% in 2004.

:52:24. > :52:31.Citizens Advice estimates low income families are ?241 worse off every

:52:32. > :52:36.year. If I can speak about my own constituency and Bristol, we have

:52:37. > :52:40.some of the worst instances of fuel poverty in England. People always

:52:41. > :52:46.think of Bristol as an affluent place, but just because the cities

:52:47. > :52:51.and towns are thriving, it does not mean to say there are not other

:52:52. > :52:56.people who are not living in poverty. In Bristol we have over

:52:57. > :53:01.25,000 people living in fuel poverty, 30% of the city against the

:53:02. > :53:10.national average of 10%. Some neighbourhoods have nearly a

:53:11. > :53:15.quarter, more than 23% of households in fuel poverty, sitting within a

:53:16. > :53:18.mile of ones with only 5%. Food banks are helping people who

:53:19. > :53:26.rationed their energy use to save money. People too often have to

:53:27. > :53:33.choose between heating and eating. To those suffering long-term health

:53:34. > :53:38.conditions the effect of living in a non-heated home can cause suffering

:53:39. > :53:44.and even death. One third of the death last winter I simply estimated

:53:45. > :53:48.to have been caused by cold homes. I was contacted awhile ago by one

:53:49. > :53:53.woman whose husband was extremely ill. They're called home was making

:53:54. > :53:59.his condition words, but was denying them the most basic of conflicts.

:54:00. > :54:03.She said, all we would like is to be worn in our home. I do not think

:54:04. > :54:11.that is too much for anyone to ask in this day and age. Other MPs will

:54:12. > :54:14.have in their localities some of the new breed of municipal energy

:54:15. > :54:21.providers which provide a very different offer from the big six but

:54:22. > :54:27.with fair rates and cleaner energy. Bristol Energy was set up very

:54:28. > :54:32.recently by Bristol City Council. It is a national company, so anyone can

:54:33. > :54:37.switch to it, but there is a special tariff for people with a Bristol

:54:38. > :54:42.postcode. It was set up to help people pay less for their energy and

:54:43. > :54:47.provide a new way to raise funds for the city. All the profits would be

:54:48. > :54:54.reinvested back into the city. Its standard variable tariff is on

:54:55. > :54:58.average ?105 cheaper than the big six. It is currently trialling a

:54:59. > :55:03.warm homes plus tariff to bring households in Bristol out of fuel

:55:04. > :55:07.poverty which would be a nonprofit making fuel tariff, only available

:55:08. > :55:13.by referral. They are working with the Citizens Advice Bureau, the

:55:14. > :55:19.Council, on those proposals and they are looking for a thousand people to

:55:20. > :55:23.start with to put onto this tariff. The profits will be invested back

:55:24. > :55:29.into the city and in the long term we want to be ambitious, tying up

:55:30. > :55:33.with the waste sector. On one visit I had to waste plant on the

:55:34. > :55:39.outskirts of the city they reckoned Bristol's waste alone could generate

:55:40. > :55:45.enough energy to heat 250,000 homes and that has got to be the way

:55:46. > :55:48.forward, a local solution to a local problem. However welcome new

:55:49. > :55:53.entrants are to the energy market, they seem to have had little impact

:55:54. > :55:58.so far in putting pressure on the big six to reduce prices. Despite

:55:59. > :56:00.better practices from some companies wishing people to switch or telling

:56:01. > :56:07.them they have that option is clearly not enough. An independent

:56:08. > :56:12.energy experts said, although I believe in competition and when it

:56:13. > :56:16.works it can result in fairer prices, we have to face the fact

:56:17. > :56:21.that not everyone can and will engage in the market. A spokesperson

:56:22. > :56:28.for the Department for business, energy and industrial strategy set

:56:29. > :56:32.they are ready to react when the market is failing, but it is clear

:56:33. > :56:36.the market is failing for a majority of people, so I am not sure when the

:56:37. > :56:42.department will decide it is time to react. If the case had not been made

:56:43. > :56:52.before today's debate, it is being made very powerfully today that the

:56:53. > :57:00.market is failing. 66% are customers who have never switched supplier,

:57:01. > :57:05.the so-called sticky 66. We need an approach that keeps a full switch in

:57:06. > :57:09.open but ensure the sticky customer does not become disadvantaged by

:57:10. > :57:20.remaining on the standard variable tariff. Much greater transparency as

:57:21. > :57:25.a first step to include a breakdown of costs behind each of the tariffs

:57:26. > :57:28.to include the wholesale energy costs, transition costs and green

:57:29. > :57:33.energy with an improved annual renewal notice along the lines of

:57:34. > :57:39.motor insurance would encourage more switching. I believe we need to go

:57:40. > :57:44.further. We need some kind of price control for those on standard

:57:45. > :57:47.variable tariffs. I would urge the government to pick up on proposals

:57:48. > :57:52.put forward by the right honourable member for Don Valley. If we wait

:57:53. > :57:57.for the green paper on when government should intervene in the

:57:58. > :58:02.markets this spring, then it will be too late to effect energy prices

:58:03. > :58:07.next winter and we will again see people suffering because of having

:58:08. > :58:12.to pay above the odds extortionate energy bills. As the Observer

:58:13. > :58:16.newspaper said, the government must reinstate price regulation until

:58:17. > :58:21.there is convincing evidence of market forces will provide value for

:58:22. > :58:24.consumers, rather than unfairly enriching corporate profits.

:58:25. > :58:31.Consumers have been exploited for too long and it is time now for the

:58:32. > :58:37.government to act. I am delighted to be involved in this debate and I am

:58:38. > :58:44.grateful to the honourable gentleman for Weston-Super-Mare and the right

:58:45. > :58:51.honourable lady for Don Valley. One of the disadvantages of speaking so

:58:52. > :58:56.far down the list, this debate is long overdue and it is a debate

:58:57. > :59:01.about how we can empower consumers as they face the injustice of energy

:59:02. > :59:07.prices. The average annual domestic gas and electricity bills in

:59:08. > :59:15.Scotland have increased by 114% and 15% respectively between 2004 and

:59:16. > :59:19.2015. What consumers pay varies depending on the method of payment,

:59:20. > :59:25.over which the consumer does not always have control. On average

:59:26. > :59:30.electricity and gas consumers in Scotland using standard, credit and

:59:31. > :59:35.prepayment meters face 10% higher bills and those able to use direct

:59:36. > :59:40.debit. The cost of a unit of gas is similar across Scotland and the rest

:59:41. > :59:44.of the British energy market for domestic consumers, however the unit

:59:45. > :59:49.price of electricity differs considerably within Scotland.

:59:50. > :59:53.Consumers in the North pay between eight and 9% more depending on

:59:54. > :00:00.payment type than the average in the rest of Britain. The big six energy

:00:01. > :00:04.companies supply gas and electricity to over 50 million homes with a

:00:05. > :00:12.market share of 85% of UK domestic customers.

:00:13. > :00:20.The hope is that costs can be driven down by increasing competition

:00:21. > :00:26.between suppliers and helping more customers switch to better deals. As

:00:27. > :00:29.we've heard, there is a problem with this, the problem is that the

:00:30. > :00:35.Competition and Markets Authority found that the Basque majority of

:00:36. > :00:41.people don't switch providers and 70% of all big six customers are on

:00:42. > :00:44.the default standard variable tariff which means that 16 million homes

:00:45. > :00:52.are paying more for the energy than they should be. Loyalty is treated

:00:53. > :00:58.as something to be exploited not something to be rewarded. The

:00:59. > :01:03.premium that standard variable tariff consumers pay over those who

:01:04. > :01:13.switch has tended to increase over time. In 2008, less than ?100 each

:01:14. > :01:20.year but by 2015, ?330 and currently at ?230. In all that time, rates of

:01:21. > :01:26.switching are no higher so clearly, as the motion sets out, the way to

:01:27. > :01:32.protect consumers cannot be done simply by encouraging them to switch

:01:33. > :01:36.suppliers. Much more is required. Those most likely to be on standard

:01:37. > :01:42.variable tariffs are more likely to be older, more likely to be

:01:43. > :01:45.disabled, more likely to be on low incomes, more likely to be living in

:01:46. > :01:51.rented accommodation and they are more likely to be consumers without

:01:52. > :01:56.Internet access. Those on standard variable tariffs did not see their

:01:57. > :02:02.bills for by much at all when the cost of providing energy dropped in

:02:03. > :02:07.2014-15. Such savings available were only passed on to the consumers who

:02:08. > :02:11.were active switchers. Not all consumers can engage in the

:02:12. > :02:16.switching process so suppliers need to do more to ensure these customers

:02:17. > :02:23.are not trapped in a deals. The existing market does provide scope

:02:24. > :02:27.for households to save money on energy bills by switching but a low

:02:28. > :02:31.level of consumer engagement in the market still persists. Indeed, the

:02:32. > :02:37.Competition and Markets Authority found that one of the main issues is

:02:38. > :02:41.the lack of engagement in the market on the part of many customers which

:02:42. > :02:50.suppliers are able to explore by charging high prices. 34% of

:02:51. > :02:52.domestic energy customers had never considered switching supplier while

:02:53. > :03:01.many said they didn't know if it were possible or have done so in the

:03:02. > :03:08.past. Switching can currently take up to 21 days and that is a

:03:09. > :03:13.significant period of time during which a consumer who may be thinking

:03:14. > :03:18.about switching may be concerned that something could go wrong during

:03:19. > :03:25.that extended period, for which I don't believe there is sufficient

:03:26. > :03:31.justification. One result is that energy is increasingly unaffordable

:03:32. > :03:38.for customers and between 2004-14 average domestic gas prices rose by

:03:39. > :03:43.around 125% in real terms. Significantly, those consumers who

:03:44. > :03:48.are engaged in the market are typically higher income earners,

:03:49. > :03:54.have access to a mains gas supply and Internet access so that they can

:03:55. > :03:58.much more easily carry out comparison shopping and, of course,

:03:59. > :04:01.they have the ability to pay by direct debit and this is yet more

:04:02. > :04:06.evidence that the way to protect consumers simply cannot be done by

:04:07. > :04:14.encouraging them to switch suppliers. As we heard today, energy

:04:15. > :04:17.efficient measures are of course important and the Scottish

:04:18. > :04:21.Government has done a lot of work on this, driving down fuel poverty,

:04:22. > :04:26.although it remained stubbornly high but ultimately and fundamentally we

:04:27. > :04:31.need effective regulation of the retail energy market and to work

:04:32. > :04:39.collaboratively with energy suppliers to explore ways of

:04:40. > :04:44.lowering energy bills. We need a market that works equally for all

:04:45. > :04:55.consumers regardless of where they are on the income scale.

:04:56. > :05:01.It is currently undergoing a review of the regulation framework but

:05:02. > :05:06.there must be a case for a safeguard tariff, limit on the amount

:05:07. > :05:11.prepayment customers are charged, for that to be expanded to include

:05:12. > :05:16.those consumers on a standard variable tariff eligible for the

:05:17. > :05:21.warm home discount on credit meter. It is important that the government

:05:22. > :05:26.sets targets to significantly reduce the number of consumers on standard

:05:27. > :05:30.variable tariffs by 2020 and if suppliers cannot or do not meet

:05:31. > :05:38.these targets, then consideration has to be given to broaden the

:05:39. > :05:41.safeguard tariff to protect others standard dairy bull tariff

:05:42. > :05:53.customers. Just because consumers very often, vulnerable consumers,

:05:54. > :05:56.are unable to switch doesn't mean that they should be left at the

:05:57. > :06:03.mercy of the market that punishes them for not been able to do that.

:06:04. > :06:08.Much must be done to protect consumers who are currently

:06:09. > :06:14.overcharged, doing nothing is not an option. I hope the minister will

:06:15. > :06:19.address the concerns that we have raised today and reassure this house

:06:20. > :06:24.that protecting consumers and putting energy companies on notice

:06:25. > :06:31.that things cannot and must not continue as they have been doing.

:06:32. > :06:35.It's a pleasure to speak after the honourable member for North Ayrshire

:06:36. > :06:43.and Arran. Bradford is a city facing its share of challenges, many enjoy

:06:44. > :06:48.the poverty despite being in paid work, indeed, in work poverty is

:06:49. > :06:55.rife. Despite long working hours, week in week out, pay packets don't

:06:56. > :06:59.meet basic necessities. One such necessity is how to pay gas and

:07:00. > :07:06.electricity bills when they drop on the doormat. To my mind, that is

:07:07. > :07:10.what today's debate is all about. As energy prices soar and wages

:07:11. > :07:15.stagnate, hard-pressed families and those on low incomes are faced with

:07:16. > :07:20.desperate choices. What should they pay first? Rent or electricity rest

:07:21. > :07:25.are what is more important, weekly food shop or gas bill? What is

:07:26. > :07:31.better for their family, one home food on their table? Without doubt,

:07:32. > :07:35.soaring energy prices touch every single person in this country but

:07:36. > :07:39.the poorest suffer disproportionately. What is clear is

:07:40. > :07:51.that the wider energy market is in chaos. How many hours of coal

:07:52. > :07:58.powered energy has been provided this year? Is it not the case that

:07:59. > :08:07.coal stations produce more emissions on lower loads. How is the current

:08:08. > :08:15.capacity market mechanism going to guarantee fair pricing mechanisms?

:08:16. > :08:22.What is also clear is that the energy sector is no longer operating

:08:23. > :08:31.in the Insta -- interest of our constituents. All of the major

:08:32. > :08:38.suppliers except British Gas have recently announced price hikes. The

:08:39. > :08:41.big six enjoy a near monopoly position, 85% market share, when

:08:42. > :08:47.prices are hiked within days of each other, strong evidence that the

:08:48. > :08:50.market is broken. This government cannot continue to argue that

:08:51. > :08:56.competition in the energy sector is the key to lower bills. The big six

:08:57. > :09:00.are failing to get ordinary families and hard-pressed individuals onto

:09:01. > :09:07.their cheapest tariff. For 20 million households to be stranded on

:09:08. > :09:11.default tariffs is a scandal. The mantra about helping customers onto

:09:12. > :09:18.the cheapest tariffs is little more than spin. These customers could be

:09:19. > :09:23.paying up to ?230 extra per year, a huge sum when family budgets are

:09:24. > :09:28.under pressure. In Bradford, I'm fortunate that my local council is

:09:29. > :09:32.working to tackle fuel poverty but as a council they cannot control the

:09:33. > :09:37.big six energy companies. That is solely within the gift of this

:09:38. > :09:42.government. In 2015, Bradford Council adopted a fuel poverty

:09:43. > :09:47.framework for action, this devised in partnership with the respective

:09:48. > :09:52.national energy action undertook a detailed analysis of the scale of

:09:53. > :09:56.fuel poverty in Bradford. It discovered that homes in Bradford

:09:57. > :10:04.have benefited from 50,000 energy efficiency measures, but one in

:10:05. > :10:13.eight households continue to suffer from fuel poverty. This remains the

:10:14. > :10:17.case today. Because of its historical and industrial past, a

:10:18. > :10:26.substantial proportion of Bradford's housing is very old. Much of it

:10:27. > :10:36.built before 1919, above the national average of 25%, a further

:10:37. > :10:40.20% was built 1919- 44. These homes are classified as hard to treat

:10:41. > :10:44.because they are stone built and feature a regular construction. In

:10:45. > :10:48.many other towns and cities throughout the country, a family

:10:49. > :10:52.faced with soaring energy bills might consider improving the energy

:10:53. > :10:57.efficiency of their home, if they can afford it. In Bradford, the

:10:58. > :11:04.prevalence of hard to treat homes mean energy efficiency schemes are

:11:05. > :11:14.my -- neither quick nor affordable. The consequence is that meeting the

:11:15. > :11:19.cost of this scheme is ever more unlikely. The plight is especially

:11:20. > :11:25.desperate in the private rented sector. As families are priced out

:11:26. > :11:28.of the housing market, many find themselves in rented accommodation

:11:29. > :11:34.which has seen little investment for many years. The number of households

:11:35. > :11:41.in the private rented sector in Bradford has rocketed from 17,000

:11:42. > :11:50.502,001 to nearly 40,020 15. Now accounting for over 18% of the total

:11:51. > :11:55.housing stock. I recognise that the government has taken steps to tackle

:11:56. > :11:57.poverty in the private rented sector but regrettably Diego measures

:11:58. > :12:08.announced black ambition. The legal minimum requirement in the private

:12:09. > :12:13.rented sector has been set at E. An ambitious government would have set

:12:14. > :12:17.the legal minimum much higher. If this government had done so, an

:12:18. > :12:22.average family in private rented accommodation could have looked

:12:23. > :12:29.forward to a warmer home and saved hundreds of pounds per year. The

:12:30. > :12:34.damage is not limited to finances, a cold home damages the health and

:12:35. > :12:41.well-being of constituents. Evidence proves that living in a cold home

:12:42. > :12:47.aggravates health problems, including circulatory problems,

:12:48. > :12:50.cardiovascular and mental health. Living in a cold home leads to

:12:51. > :12:58.premature death in the winter months. The rate of premature death

:12:59. > :13:04.in Bradford for 2010-13 was over 22%. 5% higher than for the whole of

:13:05. > :13:10.the Yorkshire and Humber region and for England as a whole. People are

:13:11. > :13:15.literally paying for fuel poverty with their lives. This situation

:13:16. > :13:22.must not go on. This government must take action to tackle fuel poverty.

:13:23. > :13:25.Soaring energy costs and cuts to energy efficiency schemes is pushing

:13:26. > :13:30.hard-pressed families in Bradford close to the edge. For many, the

:13:31. > :13:39.desperate choices between a warm home and food on the table. This is

:13:40. > :13:45.an acceptable in this day and age. I'd like to thank every single

:13:46. > :13:51.honourable member for their contribution today, particularly the

:13:52. > :13:54.member for Weston-Super-Mare for bringing the issue of energy prices

:13:55. > :13:59.and the treatment of consumers before the committee. The big six

:14:00. > :14:04.have a lot to answer for rewarding long-term customers who have been

:14:05. > :14:09.loyal with the highest tariffs is simply appalling. Many of these

:14:10. > :14:13.individuals are elderly, vulnerable, disabled, have learning disability

:14:14. > :14:17.or mental health problems and can least afford it. My own grandmother

:14:18. > :14:21.at the time of her transfer to hospital in her 90s, when we

:14:22. > :14:28.examined the tariff she was playing was around two times more than what

:14:29. > :14:34.we were. Pensioners have a tight budget and maybe frail and very

:14:35. > :14:38.elderly relying on heating to prevent pneumonia. How can these

:14:39. > :14:43.companies sleep at night? There has been a lot of talk about switching

:14:44. > :14:49.and why we don't do it more. I hope I'm not the only person who has been

:14:50. > :14:58.bamboozled by energy tariffs. I find it absolutely income

:14:59. > :15:03.incomprehensible and incomparable. Comparing day rates, nitrates and

:15:04. > :15:07.standard daily charges, without a Ph.D. In mathematics it is all but

:15:08. > :15:11.impossible. On two occasions I switched rates to change money and

:15:12. > :15:23.found my bill had increased. I cannot help but think this is made,

:15:24. > :15:27.the gated on purpose. A relative energy cup has been proposed to

:15:28. > :15:31.prevent those being mercilessly ripped off and this is supported by

:15:32. > :15:36.a number of competitor brands so I would urge the Minister to review

:15:37. > :15:42.this proposal. It may be an interim solution as described but it will

:15:43. > :15:44.save customers, consumers, constituents money. Our focus should

:15:45. > :15:54.be and must be on them. The honourable member for Hartlepool

:15:55. > :15:57.has raised the exorbitant differential in price if consumers

:15:58. > :16:08.make the wrong decision. He highlights the big six off do knock

:16:09. > :16:13.back in the interests of customers. Over the years we have had many

:16:14. > :16:17.debates over the big six. Would you not agree that we need an enquiry

:16:18. > :16:23.into how the big six operate because it seems to me they are a cartel

:16:24. > :16:28.that price fix and at the end of the day customers suffer because of

:16:29. > :16:34.that. I packed the honourable gentleman for his extremely

:16:35. > :16:38.important point and today it has been highlighted by many members

:16:39. > :16:45.that they feel it is a monopoly and consumers must be put at the heart

:16:46. > :16:48.of energy pricing. The honourable member from Hartlepool described

:16:49. > :16:52.quite appropriately the difficulties people experienced in shifting

:16:53. > :16:56.supplier and that energy prices have reduced, but prices have been hiked.

:16:57. > :17:03.This in itself is an absolute disgrace. Mention today has been

:17:04. > :17:07.made of smart meters. Smart meters, although they help individuals

:17:08. > :17:11.monitor energy usage, it places responsibility on the consumer as

:17:12. > :17:17.though they were using too much when the fact is they are paying too

:17:18. > :17:21.much. Smart meters are not the sole answer and cos I feel must step up

:17:22. > :17:28.and take responsibility. Right honourable friend has asked me to

:17:29. > :17:33.raise that fuel property rates in the Western isles are the highest of

:17:34. > :17:38.any in any local authority area in Scotland. The announcement by SSE

:17:39. > :17:43.that they are to increase energy prices by 14.9% is a huge blow to

:17:44. > :17:48.these constituents. What measurements will the government

:17:49. > :17:52.take to address the issues faced exponentially by those on Ireland

:17:53. > :17:56.and rural communities. The honourable lady from Brent Central

:17:57. > :18:00.highlighted that just about managing families are being most affected in

:18:01. > :18:04.the UK Government is not standing up for their rights. She also

:18:05. > :18:09.highlighted the impact of fuel poverty, quite rightly. The

:18:10. > :18:12.honourable lady from Don Valley gave an excellent contribution and

:18:13. > :18:16.discussed the satisfaction levels with customers right across the UK

:18:17. > :18:20.which she says should ring alarm bells to this government. She

:18:21. > :18:26.highlighted the fact that those who struggled to pay are paying the

:18:27. > :18:30.most. Meanwhile, company profits are increasing. The honourable lady

:18:31. > :18:36.contributed from Bristol East and highlighted the Bristol energy

:18:37. > :18:41.contribution to fairer pricing locally and the level of local fuel

:18:42. > :18:46.poverty there. She is right to highlight her constituency concerns.

:18:47. > :18:50.My honourable friend from North Ayrshire and Arran described the

:18:51. > :18:56.situation in Scotland, particularly in rural and northern areas, and she

:18:57. > :19:02.described it can take 21 days to switch supplier which puts people

:19:03. > :19:06.off. The process is conflated. She described the need for the safeguard

:19:07. > :19:10.tariff to be extended and consideration to reductions needed

:19:11. > :19:16.on the standard tariff by a set time frame by this government. There are

:19:17. > :19:21.rural areas in my constituency which are still off the grid and much more

:19:22. > :19:27.needs to be done to support rural communities with little chance of

:19:28. > :19:31.energy costs in changes and tight. I ask the Minister to address these

:19:32. > :19:37.issues because these people are some of the people who are most badly

:19:38. > :19:43.affected by changes in pricing. The honourable member for Bradford South

:19:44. > :19:47.spoke of soaring energy prices and how the poor suffered

:19:48. > :19:51.disproportionately in this regard. In terms of Scottish government

:19:52. > :19:56.policy draft Scottish energy strategy is now open and I would

:19:57. > :20:00.urge individuals who are interested to consult and give their opinions

:20:01. > :20:04.on this. Our Scottish government remains committed to putting

:20:05. > :20:09.consumers at the heart of policy and to its target on renewables. Today I

:20:10. > :20:14.would urge the Minister to act because we do not need a postcode

:20:15. > :20:23.lottery. The energy sector from all we have heard today needs urgent

:20:24. > :20:25.reform, it needs it now and this reform must be made to serve

:20:26. > :20:32.customers rather than to serve itself. Thank you, Mr Deputy

:20:33. > :20:41.Speaker. We have had an excellent and powerful debate this afternoon

:20:42. > :20:45.which I thank the honourable member for Weston-Super-Mare, and indeed

:20:46. > :20:49.the right honourable member for Don Valley and the honourable member for

:20:50. > :20:55.North Ayrshire and Arran for securing it for us this afternoon. I

:20:56. > :21:00.know there were a number of issues relating to the televising of the

:21:01. > :21:04.pitch, but clearly it was a very successful pitch as it turned out.

:21:05. > :21:10.Indeed the wisdom of the backbench business committee in deciding that

:21:11. > :21:16.this should be debated this afternoon has been borne out by the

:21:17. > :21:21.powerful nurse of the contributions by members from Bristol West, Brent

:21:22. > :21:27.Central, North Ayrshire and Arran and Bradford South. Although I want

:21:28. > :21:33.to draw attention to some of the things those honourable members have

:21:34. > :21:40.said this afternoon in particular, what I think we can agree is that

:21:41. > :21:48.everybody this afternoon highlighted and emphasised just how broken the

:21:49. > :21:53.present energy market is in terms of doing the best thing for customers,

:21:54. > :22:01.which after all are at the heart of what we do in energy generation and

:22:02. > :22:09.supply in the first place. I think in emphasising how broken the market

:22:10. > :22:14.is we have got ourselves into, certainly as far as energy is

:22:15. > :22:19.concerned, into a rather odd place. What we have been talking about this

:22:20. > :22:25.afternoon is not, as we frequently do in this chamber, the plight of a

:22:26. > :22:31.persecuted minority and what we might do about it, we are here this

:22:32. > :22:35.afternoon talking about the plight of a persecuted majority and what we

:22:36. > :22:39.might do about it. If we want to understand between ourselves that

:22:40. > :22:44.the market is pretty broken to have got to this position in talking

:22:45. > :22:47.about this issue, if that does not emphasise the point honourable

:22:48. > :22:56.members were making this afternoon about how broken the market is, then

:22:57. > :23:04.I think that does. In that market we have had very recently some eye

:23:05. > :23:08.watering increases in prices. 10% on jewel fuel for a number of

:23:09. > :23:16.countries, double-figure increases on electricity bills from other

:23:17. > :23:25.companies and those price rises are justified by those companies as a

:23:26. > :23:32.combination of wholesale prices, the government's environmental measures,

:23:33. > :23:40.and even we have heard recently the impact of smart meters upon customer

:23:41. > :23:46.prices. The problem is, of course, we have no easy way, as I will come

:23:47. > :23:49.to in a minute, in actually assessing the extent to which those

:23:50. > :23:58.claims are justified or not. One thing I think we can say is that the

:23:59. > :24:03.idea, as my honourable friend the member for Don Valley has emphasised

:24:04. > :24:09.this afternoon, we need to set one thing at rest, and that is that

:24:10. > :24:14.those price rises are as a result of a low carbon levies. They are not.

:24:15. > :24:26.Indeed, my honourable friend the member for Hartlepool set out the

:24:27. > :24:36.recent report from the committee on climate change which indicated

:24:37. > :24:41.overall only 9% of bills come from government energy measures. Indeed,

:24:42. > :24:46.not only are those energy measures not a huge part of the overall bill,

:24:47. > :24:52.those measures themselves go towards decreasing bills in the future in

:24:53. > :24:55.terms of decreasing demand, increasing energy efficiency, and as

:24:56. > :25:02.far as renewable energy is concerned, changing the merit order

:25:03. > :25:05.of energy supply so that actually eventually the wholesale price of

:25:06. > :25:11.energy can be driven down over a period. I am very grateful. I wonder

:25:12. > :25:19.what my honourable friend things about this. E.ON last week justified

:25:20. > :25:24.their jewel fuel price increase by setting it is due mainly, mainly, to

:25:25. > :25:29.the rise of non-energy powers of the bill such as social and

:25:30. > :25:33.environmental schemes which help customers use less energy. But today

:25:34. > :25:40.they have announced big rises in profits primarily in conjunction

:25:41. > :25:46.with government mandated energy efficient measures. They want their

:25:47. > :25:50.cake and to eat it, don't they? Yes, Mr Deputy Speaker, my honourable

:25:51. > :25:54.friend makes a powerful point. They do what their cake and to eat it,

:25:55. > :25:58.but they are not sure where the cake is and we are not sure how which

:25:59. > :26:02.bits of the cake come from which soars because the whole energy

:26:03. > :26:09.market is non-transparent as it stands. That is a central feature of

:26:10. > :26:16.being able to judge whether those price rises are justified or not.

:26:17. > :26:20.What goes on in terms of the transactions that those energy

:26:21. > :26:24.companies undertake in order to trade in order to haste their

:26:25. > :26:29.trading, in order to bring the costs of wholesale into the retail market

:26:30. > :26:34.are almost completely opaque and continue to be so. In addition to

:26:35. > :26:41.that, as we have heard this afternoon, that persecuted minority

:26:42. > :26:44.we are talking about gets hit always. They get hit by the price

:26:45. > :26:51.rises and they get hit by paying the most expensive tariffs within the

:26:52. > :26:56.company roster of tariffs. Not only do they pay the most expensive

:26:57. > :27:00.tariffs, in some cases up to 90% of the customers of those companies are

:27:01. > :27:07.actually paying those most expensive tariffs. Not only should we not

:27:08. > :27:11.speak about these customers as if they were an endangered minority,

:27:12. > :27:18.they are not, they are an endangered majority. And they are also a

:27:19. > :27:22.majority which we have to stop talking about as if it is somehow

:27:23. > :27:27.their fault that they have not switched. As if they are responsible

:27:28. > :27:31.for not switching. We can see from the history again which my

:27:32. > :27:39.honourable friend, the member for Don Valley, pointed out, the

:27:40. > :27:49.correlation between those areas from which energy companies originally

:27:50. > :27:52.came and how that sticky customer base relates to particular areas in

:27:53. > :27:58.the country from which those companies originated. In fact in a

:27:59. > :28:02.number of instances we can say a large proportion of those sticky

:28:03. > :28:05.customers are those that the company inherited when they became

:28:06. > :28:09.privatised and they have stayed with those companies ever since.

:28:10. > :28:19.Admirable loyalty to those companies one might think an absolutely the

:28:20. > :28:21.wrong thing to do to treat those companies like they are treating

:28:22. > :28:29.them as we have heard this afternoon. It is a huge base of

:28:30. > :28:34.customers and not to put too fine a point on it, as we have heard from

:28:35. > :28:41.the honourable member for Weston-Super-Mare, because those

:28:42. > :28:47.customers will pay more for less year after year, they will not

:28:48. > :29:00.desert the company for a result and indeed they can be relied on to

:29:01. > :29:10.bring not to the benefit of the company's finances. What I think is

:29:11. > :29:16.the solution to that particular issue, what the CMA have been

:29:17. > :29:20.pursuing, is to sort of playing those sticky customers for the

:29:21. > :29:25.plight they find themselves in and say, if only you switched,

:29:26. > :29:29.everything would be OK. Indeed that idea runs through the heart of the

:29:30. > :29:35.recent CMA report on the energy market. Why don't all these sticky

:29:36. > :29:40.customers switch? If they do not, how can we poke and prod them until

:29:41. > :29:44.they do? If we keep prodding and poking and they do not switch, we

:29:45. > :29:49.can get other companies into poke and prod them more and then they

:29:50. > :29:54.might switch. That does not seem to me to be the sort of final remedy

:29:55. > :29:58.that is that all satisfactory given the scale and the nature of the

:29:59. > :30:04.market we see in front of us. We should not be surprised to read in

:30:05. > :30:10.the principles attached to the provisional remedies that the CMA

:30:11. > :30:14.put forward, the principles they operated the whole enquiry in just

:30:15. > :30:17.recently that they say, it is through customers shopping around

:30:18. > :30:21.and making choices between the offerings of rival suppliers that

:30:22. > :30:26.the benefits of competition emerge. That is what they thought they were

:30:27. > :30:36.doing with the enquiry. Whilst it is very welcome that they have come up

:30:37. > :30:42.with the idea of putting a cap on tariffs for those customers on

:30:43. > :30:49.prepaid meters, and by the way I pay tribute to my honourable friend for

:30:50. > :30:51.Brent Central who has been quite seriously instrumental in getting

:30:52. > :31:01.that particular arrangement forward in terms of her campaigning on the

:31:02. > :31:06.status of those people on prepaid meters and the excesses they were

:31:07. > :31:13.paying. So, that is welcome, but it does not do very much for the

:31:14. > :31:18.overall issue of the fact that we know that those sticky customers are

:31:19. > :31:23.not going to switch in a hurry. We know the energy companies know that.

:31:24. > :31:27.We know there is no evidence that the energy companies are trembling

:31:28. > :31:33.at the thought of their customers switching and are trimming their

:31:34. > :31:36.rises accordingly. The evidence is that switching is a substantial

:31:37. > :31:46.occupation for some and not most and switching totals concern and conceal

:31:47. > :31:48.a town of switching between multiple companies for some people and we

:31:49. > :32:10.have almost a perfect storm. Ofgen didn't see a need for...

:32:11. > :32:16.Customers paying out on disadvantageous tariffs. We need to

:32:17. > :32:20.get a grip on that problem. We've also heard this afternoon that a

:32:21. > :32:31.grip has been promised on a number of occasions. We've heard that the

:32:32. > :32:35.Prime Minister suggested that companies are in the last chance

:32:36. > :32:41.saloon and something has to happen. Very little has actually taken

:32:42. > :32:45.place. All that despite the fact that as honourable members have

:32:46. > :33:00.mentioned it is quite plain that customers have been overcharged for

:33:01. > :33:05.a long period by energy companies. Yes, a price cap, regulated price

:33:06. > :33:14.cap, within which competition could take place I think is a very good

:33:15. > :33:21.idea. I recognise, however, that that price cap has to be taken

:33:22. > :33:27.within the context of the fact that there will be real pressures on

:33:28. > :33:30.costs. It is true that wholesale markets do on occasion go up and it

:33:31. > :33:36.is true that energy companies will have to absorb that in terms of

:33:37. > :33:40.price increases. So a cap that allows that arrangement to take

:33:41. > :33:48.place but within which work can be done to ensure the competition

:33:49. > :33:58.remains is, I think, a good starting idea, as, indeed, is the idea that

:33:59. > :34:04.sticky customers, perhaps, should be after a certain period of time taken

:34:05. > :34:10.into either protected tariffs, as my right honourable friend, the member

:34:11. > :34:15.for Don Valley, suggested, or onto the lowest tariff the company offers

:34:16. > :34:20.over a period of time as a method of starting to take action as far as

:34:21. > :34:24.sticky customers are concerned. I think there is rather more goes into

:34:25. > :34:30.the present dysfunction of the energy market than just sticky

:34:31. > :34:40.customers. Indeed, reflecting on what Ofgem said recently not seeing

:34:41. > :34:45.a case for significant price rises for energy costs that could have

:34:46. > :34:52.seen well in advance. It's not clear whether Ofgem mean companies buying

:34:53. > :35:03.wisely in advance, well in advance, or suppliers buying a long time in

:35:04. > :35:07.advance. It means price rises shouldn't spike in the way that they

:35:08. > :35:11.often are but we don't know what companies are two when they are

:35:12. > :35:20.buying. For example, we don't know what is happening as far as energy

:35:21. > :35:26.company trades are concerned. It is not actually visible what many of

:35:27. > :35:29.those consist of. Where they are vertically integrated we don't know

:35:30. > :35:33.what happens when they trade with themselves. We don't know whether

:35:34. > :35:40.this reflects a fair trade market in forward trading. We need to open up

:35:41. > :35:46.the market to full transparency, not just a day ahead but right along the

:35:47. > :35:50.curve so we can act to abuse prevent abuses of trading positions which

:35:51. > :36:02.take place to the disadvantage of customs. While transparency is a

:36:03. > :36:06.sensible and worthwhile thing to aim for, from a consumer's point of

:36:07. > :36:10.view, it doesn't matter terribly much at all because consumers don't

:36:11. > :36:16.care whether or not their supplier is doing a good or bad hedging

:36:17. > :36:22.strategy. That is up to the supplier to manage. Some will get it right

:36:23. > :36:25.and some wrong but it should hit their managers, bonuses and

:36:26. > :36:29.shareholders returns and not the consumer price to be paid.

:36:30. > :36:34.Therefore, we want to understand this but we shouldn't seek to use it

:36:35. > :36:37.as a justification for high prices low, ultimately, we should be

:36:38. > :36:44.tougher than that on these suppliers. Indeed. An important

:36:45. > :36:55.point about the relationship with the customer for those transactions.

:36:56. > :36:58.Particularly with vertical integration, the way that those

:36:59. > :37:03.transactions are made cause money that should go to the customer to be

:37:04. > :37:07.siphoned off in respect of opaque trades. It is important to the

:37:08. > :37:13.customer in the long term which is why we do need full transparency in

:37:14. > :37:21.all those market trade arrangements. He makes a good point about vertical

:37:22. > :37:27.integration. Isn't it the case that in this dark, dark world of

:37:28. > :37:31.electricity generating supply, amongst the big six, they both

:37:32. > :37:37.generate electricity, sell it to themselves and then sell it on to

:37:38. > :37:42.ours. That impact on prices, fair or not, it excludes others, both

:37:43. > :37:50.independent generators and retailers coming into the market and putting

:37:51. > :37:56.downward pressure on price. My right honourable friend makes a point

:37:57. > :38:02.which I would say is spot on. Not only is it spot on but I think it

:38:03. > :38:09.demonstrates that we do need to understand a lot more about how

:38:10. > :38:16.those trades actually work and who is doing what to whom and sometimes

:38:17. > :38:23.who is doing what to themselves and within what is a conjugated picture

:38:24. > :38:29.of trading, right up to closure, trading in times of scarcity, the

:38:30. > :38:33.suggestion that on occasions generators can pull back on

:38:34. > :38:36.generating in order to trade when the generation becomes more trade

:38:37. > :38:43.and get a lot more money for that, all sorts of things such as that,

:38:44. > :38:45.all of which, are badly served in terms of accountability of those

:38:46. > :38:49.companies for what money goes where and who is benefiting from that

:38:50. > :38:59.money and what happens to a customer in the end. Via the opacity of the

:39:00. > :39:03.whole system. I believe that we not only need to open up the market to

:39:04. > :39:09.full transparency but we need to open a pool system of trading so

:39:10. > :39:18.that all trade into the pool and all trade out is conducted transparently

:39:19. > :39:22.and on a level playing field for all suppliers. This happens in

:39:23. > :39:27.Scandinavia so why can it not work here? That doesn't mean that

:39:28. > :39:32.companies can't make money, as Ofgem says, if they have good purchasing

:39:33. > :39:35.and hedging strategies, they can. What they won't be able to do is

:39:36. > :39:42.pass benefits on to themselves that should go to the customer. I think

:39:43. > :39:48.we need action on all this urgently. It is perhaps ironic that as the

:39:49. > :39:57.honourable member for Don Valley will recall well, we have between 's

:39:58. > :40:04.been through a number of reforms as far as energy is concerned and bills

:40:05. > :40:09.through the house under the heading of energy market reform. We have

:40:10. > :40:12.seen a great deal of reform but one thing we haven't seen is the reform

:40:13. > :40:17.of the energy market in all that time. It's actually time we got

:40:18. > :40:22.serious about the reform of the energy market in the way it works,

:40:23. > :40:27.in the way it is opaque, in the way it doesn't serve those sticky

:40:28. > :40:31.customers properly and indeed victimises and demonises those

:40:32. > :40:34.sticky customers in terms of how the energy companies are treating that

:40:35. > :40:40.majority of those customers. We need action of all this. Otherwise, we

:40:41. > :40:46.are going to be condemned to the same old cycle of price rise,

:40:47. > :40:52.muttering, remedies tossed around, remedies gathering dust on ourselves

:40:53. > :40:57.and another round of price rises. I commend this motion but I think it

:40:58. > :41:02.should herald the start of a serious look at how the whole market looks

:41:03. > :41:06.and how the customer can finally be brought to the centre of it. It's a

:41:07. > :41:17.fine start what we need to follow it through to the end. Thank you for

:41:18. > :41:22.the second debate I've had the pleasure of speaking in this week.

:41:23. > :41:33.You're getting to be a habit with me and I thoroughly welcome that. Let

:41:34. > :41:37.that be noted in the record. My great friend the member for super

:41:38. > :41:40.Mare should be congratulated on fighting his way through the Dragons

:41:41. > :41:46.of Dragon 's Den and securing the beauty of this debate which I

:41:47. > :41:50.greatly welcome. Whatever it effects, it has sent a powerful

:41:51. > :41:55.signal of the feelings, not just of the members who have spoken so well

:41:56. > :42:01.yet and down the country in this house as to be issues that we are

:42:02. > :42:08.describing. If I may, I'm going to talk about those issues, policy and

:42:09. > :42:13.I will try to weave responses to the interventions to the speech made in

:42:14. > :42:17.my comments. As you will know, the government is fully focused on

:42:18. > :42:24.getting the best deal for energy consumers and ensuring the market

:42:25. > :42:27.works for everyone and we absolutely expect energy companies to treat all

:42:28. > :42:33.their customers fairly and, therefore, we continue, as others

:42:34. > :42:37.are, to be concerned by price rises that hid billions of people in

:42:38. > :42:43.already paying more than they need to. It is not acceptable that five

:42:44. > :42:47.of the larger suppliers are increasing their standard variable

:42:48. > :42:52.prices. This will it customers hard in the pocket where they are already

:42:53. > :42:55.paying more than they need to. Wholesale prices that account for

:42:56. > :43:01.more than half of an average bill, are still it must be noted lower

:43:02. > :43:07.than they were in 2014. This is not a moment for crisis but this is a

:43:08. > :43:12.moment for sober reflection. One other thing, prices are not the same

:43:13. > :43:16.thing as bills. I would just refer colleagues to the recent report by

:43:17. > :43:20.the select committee in the House of Lords which reminds us that

:43:21. > :43:26.electricity bills have risen very little in the last 25 years. The

:43:27. > :43:29.reason for that is because measures of insulation, measures to improve

:43:30. > :43:34.appliances and other things. That isn't to say however that prices are

:43:35. > :43:43.not important and price rise is a matter of concern. I'm very pleased

:43:44. > :43:46.to take the intervention. It is important that we have a candid and

:43:47. > :43:51.open and honest discussion and he makes a very good point around the

:43:52. > :43:57.issue of prices versus hills. The amount of energy is we have used has

:43:58. > :44:01.gone down significantly in ten years but isn't he concerned as I am that

:44:02. > :44:08.maybe the big six are using that situation to keep their tariffs on

:44:09. > :44:13.welcome rehired because they are having to compensate for the fact

:44:14. > :44:17.that we are using less energy. It's a very interesting suggestion that

:44:18. > :44:21.the changes may have had the effect of cushioning the effect of price

:44:22. > :44:27.rising in the way she has described. I thank her for that board. I'd like

:44:28. > :44:33.to give that some reflection myself. Happy to take another intervention.

:44:34. > :44:39.To follow up on my right honourable co-sponsor's intervention there. The

:44:40. > :44:43.point about prices versus bills is very important. With the Minister

:44:44. > :44:46.agree that if prices stay on fairly or unnecessarily high, one of the

:44:47. > :44:52.government's main goals of improving overall productivity right the way

:44:53. > :44:57.through the economy and particularly for vitally important and central

:44:58. > :45:01.parts of the cost base for most businesses, which is energy bills,

:45:02. > :45:05.cannot be achieved or is much harder to achieve, if energy bills are

:45:06. > :45:07.higher than they need to be. We can do more with less if we are more

:45:08. > :45:18.efficient in our energy sector. This is a debate on retail and the

:45:19. > :45:22.problems are less marked in many areas of the business market but it

:45:23. > :45:27.is undoubtedly true that business bills must be kept as low as

:45:28. > :45:32.possible and the government has undertaken several steps precisely

:45:33. > :45:38.with the purpose of achieving that. May I go on to say that with

:45:39. > :45:44.suppliers as has been noted by colleagues across the host by being

:45:45. > :45:48.there take up to two years in advance they should be protected

:45:49. > :45:51.from recent fluctuations in the place of wholesale energy. We have

:45:52. > :45:54.seen some suppliers who have chosen to act differently to freeze their

:45:55. > :46:00.standard variable prices through winter and beyond and this alone

:46:01. > :46:07.shows the prose rises are not inevitable. It is a fact the

:46:08. > :46:11.majority of customers, around 66%, are in standard variable tariffs and

:46:12. > :46:16.continue to pay considerably more than those on fixed term deals. The

:46:17. > :46:24.CMA highly dubious customers are losing out by wilted estimated, the

:46:25. > :46:33.number has been disputed, but an estimated ?1.4 billion in the last

:46:34. > :46:37.few years. There have been persistently high differentials

:46:38. > :46:41.between the cheapest fixed deals and standard variable tariffs. The

:46:42. > :46:46.latest from Ofgem has shown that differential to be around ?200. It

:46:47. > :46:51.is those, and we have had a very good focus today on fuel poverty, as

:46:52. > :46:56.we did the other night, it is those who can least afford it who are most

:46:57. > :47:00.likely to be losing out, households with low incomes, B Ball with low

:47:01. > :47:05.qualifications, those in the rented sector, those over 65 are more

:47:06. > :47:09.likely to lose out than others. These recent price rises the to

:47:10. > :47:14.underline the fact that the majority of consumers are paying more than

:47:15. > :47:22.they need to. What can be done about it? Let me talk about competition.

:47:23. > :47:28.Effective competition in many markets has the effect of driving

:47:29. > :47:31.down prices, promoting innovation and assisting improvement in

:47:32. > :47:42.customer services. The government has worked very hard with Ofgem to

:47:43. > :47:47.try to improve competition. The lady mentioned Groundhog Day. Casting

:47:48. > :47:53.herself in the role of Andy McDowell. That is how I would see

:47:54. > :47:58.her. There has been some progress. It is not fair to say we are in

:47:59. > :48:03.Groundhog Day. Members rightly point to the fact that there are now over

:48:04. > :48:08.50 energy suppliers in the domestic market up from 13 in 2010 and there

:48:09. > :48:15.are the potential new entrants including local authorities waiting

:48:16. > :48:19.in the wings. We welcome them to the market. Independent suppliers have

:48:20. > :48:26.over 18% of the dual fuel market up from less than 1% seven years ago. I

:48:27. > :48:31.am pleased to hear about Bristol East, the lady from Bristol East to

:48:32. > :48:36.mention Bristol energy and the social conscience they bring to

:48:37. > :48:40.energy supply. That is typical of 80 of new and wider ranging suppliers

:48:41. > :48:46.we have seen including not-for-profit suppliers and housing

:48:47. > :48:53.providers. Smaller suppliers, those are the who are leading the way in

:48:54. > :48:55.smart PPA and other uses of technology to support customers in

:48:56. > :49:01.finding the best deal using their mobile phones. We had a very good

:49:02. > :49:05.debate in discussing switching as well. That has been rightly noted

:49:06. > :49:09.that an increasing number of households are switching their

:49:10. > :49:14.energy supplier with 7.8 million energy accounts, an increase of 28%

:49:15. > :49:24.on the previous year. This is putting in place competitive

:49:25. > :49:29.pressure. There is some competitive pressure on the big six. It is still

:49:30. > :49:36.only 15.8% of gas and electricity customers so it is a long way before

:49:37. > :49:39.anyone should feel that a large number of people are actively

:49:40. > :49:46.availing themselves of the opportunity to switch. That one

:49:47. > :49:48.might expect. One might expect in a more competitive market. For too

:49:49. > :49:55.long to many customers have been left on poor value deals. At the end

:49:56. > :49:57.of the last year we announced to the government new measures to increase

:49:58. > :50:05.transparency for consumers. I welcome the point made about

:50:06. > :50:08.transparency. He is right. It has been found in several studies the

:50:09. > :50:15.markets are less transparent here in many ways than one might like. And

:50:16. > :50:18.effort was made to start to begin to get increased transparency of

:50:19. > :50:23.consumers including the publication of an energy supplier league table

:50:24. > :50:27.by Ofgem designed to shine a light on the most expensive standard

:50:28. > :50:30.variable tariffs. We know some consumers worried that switching

:50:31. > :50:34.supplier may be difficult and time-consuming. It is not just an

:50:35. > :50:39.economic matter. It is a cultural matter. You must recognise that are

:50:40. > :50:44.not simply allow purely economic analysis of the cove. We are also

:50:45. > :50:49.taking forward proposals the mandate my data in the energy sector and

:50:50. > :50:54.that should also have an effect. My data will allow consumers to get

:50:55. > :50:58.hold of they are due date electronically anti-user to find the

:50:59. > :51:02.best deal. It will make the switching process quicker and easier

:51:03. > :51:06.and more accurate and with luck will allow people to switch using

:51:07. > :51:12.smartphone applications more easily. We are very keen that the benefits

:51:13. > :51:15.of this are not restricted in any sense to the tech savvy but to

:51:16. > :51:20.anybody who owns a mobile phone at the very least. We will be working

:51:21. > :51:26.with industry, switching companies and consumer groups to ensure all

:51:27. > :51:30.consumers can switch. The member for North Ayrshire and Arran raised the

:51:31. > :51:37.issue of the time it takes to switch supplier, rightly raising that. It

:51:38. > :51:43.used to be five weeks. Working with Ofgem to get down to 21 days. Having

:51:44. > :51:48.done that to push it down towards where it should be which is 24

:51:49. > :51:52.hours. That would be a major improvement to our system. We have

:51:53. > :51:56.also had discussion with customer service. There has been some

:51:57. > :52:01.improvement. The latest Ofgem data should suppliers received over 3

:52:02. > :52:06.million fewer customer complaints compared to 2014 but with 3.5

:52:07. > :52:11.million complaints in any case that was not saying much, they still have

:52:12. > :52:14.a long way to go. We are working with Ofgem and the ombudsman to

:52:15. > :52:20.identify and fix systemic issues which have the effect of damaging

:52:21. > :52:24.customer service. And Ofgem review last year has resulted in greater

:52:25. > :52:28.levels of communication between Ofgem, the ombudsman and citizens

:52:29. > :52:38.advice. Citizens advise an organisation I greatly esteem are

:52:39. > :52:46.working on area tings system. Turning to the CMA report, the CMA

:52:47. > :52:50.had some positive things to report after concluding its two-year energy

:52:51. > :52:55.market investigation. They found that wholesale energy markets and

:52:56. > :52:59.the retail market for larger businesses are working well but for

:53:00. > :53:05.domestic energy suppliers the CMA report as a wake-up call. It is

:53:06. > :53:08.important to note that the report was not absolutely unequivocal in

:53:09. > :53:12.every sense and it has been contested. A letter from some very

:53:13. > :53:17.senior energy regulators who raised the question whether and not it is

:53:18. > :53:22.true and it is important to acknowledge that. The CMA's position

:53:23. > :53:25.was clear which was that consumers should be able to trust energy

:53:26. > :53:30.companies are now they are getting a good deal. They find that a lack of

:53:31. > :53:34.competition meant that something like 70% of big six customers

:53:35. > :53:41.remained on the most expensive tariff despite savings they could

:53:42. > :53:46.make by moving to another tariff. We have encouraged and Ofgem are

:53:47. > :53:50.introducing a prepayment meter cap which will protect 4 million

:53:51. > :53:58.households across Britain from the beginning of next month. We are

:53:59. > :54:03.determined to go further and we have a consumer green paper in prospect

:54:04. > :54:10.which will examine specific sectors but we will also respond to the CMA

:54:11. > :54:15.energy market report separately and sooner rather than later. Our green

:54:16. > :54:19.paper will examine markets that are not working fairly for consumers. In

:54:20. > :54:24.general consumers in this country enjoys strong protection in an

:54:25. > :54:27.effective regime that helps them get the best deal but where those

:54:28. > :54:35.markets are not doing their job, where competition is not effective,

:54:36. > :54:37.government will look to intervene to improve competition and to

:54:38. > :54:41.strengthen outcomes. The Green paper will complement and fit within the

:54:42. > :54:45.government's industrial strategy to build on work delivering an economy

:54:46. > :54:51.that works for everyone. We have already announced proposals to end

:54:52. > :54:55.subscription traps than shortening small print and new powers to impose

:54:56. > :54:57.fines on companies who mistreat customers. The Green paper will

:54:58. > :55:03.provide more detail on these proposals. A couple of reflections

:55:04. > :55:10.on some of the very helpful comments that are being made. I was intrigued

:55:11. > :55:15.to know that the lady from Brent Central that it is Labour policy to

:55:16. > :55:19.renationalise the big six companies. I welcome further clarification on

:55:20. > :55:24.that together with an explanation of how much it would cost and how it

:55:25. > :55:30.would be funded. An interesting contribution. I can graduate and

:55:31. > :55:35.thank my shadow for rectal and dicing the complexity of the problem

:55:36. > :55:43.we face -- recognising the complexity. He is right to focus on

:55:44. > :55:48.transparency. To my friend from Weston-Super-Mare, these things will

:55:49. > :55:51.be taken as contributions and reflected on by government. It is

:55:52. > :55:57.worth saying that the government's record in energy markets is not

:55:58. > :56:02.absolutely unblemished. There have been several occasions on which

:56:03. > :56:06.changes have been made and had to be unwind because they were contrary to

:56:07. > :56:12.competitive pricing or innovation and that is worth recognising. I

:56:13. > :56:15.have listened very positively to what he has said about the

:56:16. > :56:19.government being prepared to intervene when a market is not

:56:20. > :56:25.working. Can I remind him of comments from the CBI on the energy

:56:26. > :56:29.market which refers it -- to it as a managed market because energy is an

:56:30. > :56:34.essential to life product which sets itself apart from some of the

:56:35. > :56:37.discussions we had earlier about toothpaste and other products? IR

:56:38. > :56:43.agenda stand up for what government should do which is set the framework

:56:44. > :56:49.in which markets operate. The point is well taken and you do not have to

:56:50. > :56:53.look far into the Wealth of Nations to know that markets are reflective

:56:54. > :56:59.when they are as deep as possible. The division of labour and therefore

:57:00. > :57:02.value generation can be realised. Also when they are supported by a

:57:03. > :57:08.strong state and a strong system of justice and enforcement. That is

:57:09. > :57:17.absolutely the tone of approach to the markets in this case. May I find

:57:18. > :57:21.members for a very thoughtful and interesting debate which has covered

:57:22. > :57:29.a great deal of ground in a limited time? We are acting to make

:57:30. > :57:32.switching easier and quicker. We are rolling out smart meters and

:57:33. > :57:36.continuing to help low-income houses with energy bills. We recognise the

:57:37. > :57:41.CMA did important work in highlighting how much consumers are

:57:42. > :57:45.currently losing out. We recognise recent price rises underlined the

:57:46. > :57:50.fact the majority of consumers are paying more than they need to. We

:57:51. > :57:54.believe the current practice as it stands is not acceptable and we will

:57:55. > :58:02.set out proposals to address these issues shortly. I wanted to repeat

:58:03. > :58:08.my thanks not only to my co-sponsors but to everybody else who has taken

:58:09. > :58:11.part in this debate. It has been full of passion and determination.

:58:12. > :58:18.This is an issue which has been around for far too long and is an

:58:19. > :58:21.issue which, in spite of the best efforts of successive governments,

:58:22. > :58:27.has not got better sufficiently quickly, and therefore there is

:58:28. > :58:30.clearly further to travel. I was very reassured by the direction of

:58:31. > :58:35.travel which the minister has just laid out and I would like to welcome

:58:36. > :58:38.some of his comments about rolling out my data which is something which

:58:39. > :58:44.should solve many of the problems on data access which are obstacles to

:58:45. > :58:50.switching. It has been around for six years and we are waiting, we

:58:51. > :58:56.anticipate and hope that it will arrive very shortly. It is good to

:58:57. > :59:00.hear there is fresh impetus behind that move and equally the point

:59:01. > :59:04.about 24 hour switching again being something that will help to drive up

:59:05. > :59:07.the levels of competition which writer away across the political

:59:08. > :59:12.spectrum and throughout this debate that has been a recognition that

:59:13. > :59:15.progress towards a properly competitive market where the big six

:59:16. > :59:20.suppliers feel under pressure to look after their customers has been

:59:21. > :59:23.too slow and needs to move faster. I am reassured to hear him making that

:59:24. > :59:30.point and that commitment from the government benches. He has also said

:59:31. > :59:34.it is not moving fast enough. Clear implication of all of the speeches

:59:35. > :59:40.we have heard so far today is that politically the way is clear. If

:59:41. > :59:44.there is something where proposals from people like myself, and I would

:59:45. > :59:52.count myself as one of the most born in born drive free marketeers you

:59:53. > :59:56.would find, looking at a relative price cap or other measures, the

:59:57. > :00:01.chairman of the select committee, the front bench speaker for SNP, and

:00:02. > :00:06.acceptance from the Labour Party front bench this is worth looking

:00:07. > :00:12.at, we can say categorically this is an idea whose time has come, a

:00:13. > :00:15.thirst for action, movement, and therefore from the government point

:00:16. > :00:21.of view they should be bold and willing to move soon.

:00:22. > :00:28.As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". . The

:00:29. > :00:32.ayes have it. I beg to move this house now do adjourn. As many as are

:00:33. > :00:34.of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". . The ayes have it.

:00:35. > :00:42.Order, order.