23/03/2017

:00:00. > :00:00.conceal my interests. I would like to take the earliest opportunity to

:00:00. > :00:00.offer a full apology to the house. Thank you to the honourable

:00:07. > :00:13.gentleman for what he has said. Order. We now come... I am grateful

:00:14. > :00:18.to the Leader of the House and colleagues, to the backbench motion

:00:19. > :00:24.on compensation for Equitable Life policyholders. The motion to be

:00:25. > :00:32.moved by the ever present Mr Bob Blackman. I beg to move the motion

:00:33. > :00:38.in my name on the order paper. Can I draw the house's attention to my

:00:39. > :00:43.declaration in the register of interests as I am a co-chair of the

:00:44. > :00:50.all Parliamentary group for justice for Equitable Life policyholders.

:00:51. > :00:55.This saga has been going on for more than 25 years. There have been

:00:56. > :01:00.debates in this House on many occasions and I am delighted that

:01:01. > :01:09.the government took action as early as 2010 to actually provide

:01:10. > :01:15.compensation for the victims of this scandal. This is a unique scandal

:01:16. > :01:22.and there are three sets of individuals involved. I will go

:01:23. > :01:27.through briefly for the benefit of members the issues of those three

:01:28. > :01:35.sets of people in due course. It is clear that this is a unique case.

:01:36. > :01:42.When I was standing for election in 2010, we made relatively few

:01:43. > :01:50.promises and pledges as individual candidates, and one of the pledges I

:01:51. > :01:54.made was to seek full compensation for policyholders. I can assure

:01:55. > :02:00.those affected that I and colleagues will continue this fight until every

:02:01. > :02:04.single policyholder has received the full compensation they are due. I

:02:05. > :02:13.will give way. Given the failure of the regulator

:02:14. > :02:18.to identify, let alone expose the problem, what information was in the

:02:19. > :02:23.public domain about which even a savvy investor could have taken into

:02:24. > :02:27.account and might possibly have alarmed him?

:02:28. > :02:33.I thank him for that intervention and it goes to the heart of the

:02:34. > :02:38.matter. The reality is that people who invested their life savings in

:02:39. > :02:44.pension schemes from the time when it was possible to take out personal

:02:45. > :02:50.pensions were persuaded by unscrupulous Equitable Life

:02:51. > :02:57.salespeople to transfer their life savings and put their hard earned

:02:58. > :03:04.money into a scheme that was a Ponzi like scheme. The reality is... Can I

:03:05. > :03:08.conclude on this issue? The reality is they were promised bonuses that

:03:09. > :03:12.were not achievable and equally, at the same time, the regulator knew

:03:13. > :03:18.this was not achievable. All was well while the money was coming in,

:03:19. > :03:22.but as we know, eventually all that money coming in was insufficient to

:03:23. > :03:31.pay bonuses expected and disaster loomed. The key point is there was

:03:32. > :03:36.no information in the public domain. The individuals affected could not

:03:37. > :03:41.have known they were such affected, but, worst still, the regulator, who

:03:42. > :03:45.should have overseen this, knew what was going on. The Treasury at the

:03:46. > :03:52.time knew what was going on, but nobody took action. This was hidden

:03:53. > :03:55.because the cost to the public purse of collapse was so immense it could

:03:56. > :04:02.not be allowed to continue. I will give way. I thank him for

:04:03. > :04:06.bringing this to the house again because policyholders with Equitable

:04:07. > :04:10.Life I think have been badly treated and the finances of this country are

:04:11. > :04:15.now much improved and it is time again we looked at the situation

:04:16. > :04:22.regarding these policyholders. They were oversold and the value of the

:04:23. > :04:26.policies was hyped up beyond anything that could be delivered

:04:27. > :04:31.even at the time and I think there are many people not held to account

:04:32. > :04:35.and it is the policyholders who have had millions of pounds taken away

:04:36. > :04:39.not only from insurers policies but pensions.

:04:40. > :04:45.I thank him for that lengthy intervention. I will give way in the

:04:46. > :04:56.second. If I can answer this intervention. The reality is there

:04:57. > :04:59.are more than 1 million victims and the total sum accepted in

:05:00. > :05:06.compensation and accepted by the government, by the former

:05:07. > :05:17.Chancellor, at the despatch box, ?4.1 billion, in compensation. But,

:05:18. > :05:21.we are at the point whereby only 895,000, only received 22% of their

:05:22. > :05:26.losses. The payments have been less than transparent. Policyholders have

:05:27. > :05:34.no way to check the calculations made. This leaves us in a difficulty

:05:35. > :05:41.for those who support the policyholders and I want to pay

:05:42. > :05:48.tribute to Emag who have done diligent work on behalf of

:05:49. > :05:52.policyholders. He outlined the regulation and

:05:53. > :05:56.Treasury knowledge of it. This is a matter of obligation for the

:05:57. > :06:01.government. Nobody can discard their obligations because of not enough

:06:02. > :06:05.cash and the government has enough cash at the moment.

:06:06. > :06:12.I thank him. I believe it is a debt of honour. I am not expecting my

:06:13. > :06:19.honourable friend from the front bench today to announce he will pay

:06:20. > :06:26.the full compensation, open the Treasury cheque book and pay the

:06:27. > :06:30.full compensation today and say this will be raised today. With the

:06:31. > :06:34.current budget and decisions made on National Insurance, clearly the

:06:35. > :06:42.position is that the budget is not yet brought into balance. I will

:06:43. > :06:48.conclude on this issue. In the long-running, as the economy

:06:49. > :06:52.recovers, as my motion sets out, as it recovers, this debt of honour

:06:53. > :06:59.should be satisfied and I think there is a way of doing this within

:07:00. > :07:01.both the remit of the legislation and the capability within the

:07:02. > :07:07.Treasury to do it. I thank him for giving way and he

:07:08. > :07:12.makes a good case. I have been contacted by so many on this issue.

:07:13. > :07:15.Of course I understand the government position but public

:07:16. > :07:20.finances are looking better than when this hit and we have cut the

:07:21. > :07:25.deficit by two thirds, so on behalf of my constituents, I would urge

:07:26. > :07:29.that the government continues to look at this to see if we can help

:07:30. > :07:38.these deserving people. I thank the honourable lady. Quite

:07:39. > :07:43.clearly the position is that this is a debt of honour, the economy is

:07:44. > :07:46.recovering and in the long-term we should be compensating all those in

:07:47. > :07:52.full who suffered through no fault of their own. We are encouraging

:07:53. > :07:56.people from across this country to invest for their retirement and

:07:57. > :08:00.invest their savings. They should know the safeguards of the regulator

:08:01. > :08:04.and government will look after those savings and ensure they are not

:08:05. > :08:12.short changed in the way these vulnerable people are being now.

:08:13. > :08:16.I will give way. May I start by drawing attention to the house as a

:08:17. > :08:25.policyholder of Equitable Life, mercifully a small policyholder.

:08:26. > :08:28.Does he agree that one of the most shocking things about the lack of

:08:29. > :08:33.information accessible to the public was right up to the very end,

:08:34. > :08:39.advertising continued, encouraging people to put their savings into

:08:40. > :08:45.Equitable Life. I remember seeing advertisements on the tube in 2000,

:08:46. > :08:50.weeks before it went. The position is there was

:08:51. > :08:56.irresponsibility and I would absolve the current leadership of Equitable

:08:57. > :09:01.Life. They have been cooperative in every way. Identifying

:09:02. > :09:07.policyholders, assisting the government and Emag in ensuring

:09:08. > :09:11.everyone was identified so they could be compensated but that does

:09:12. > :09:15.not refer to the previous management will stop let's turn to the current

:09:16. > :09:21.position we are in. I applaud the government on honouring the pledge

:09:22. > :09:26.to provide compensation to policyholders, immediately after the

:09:27. > :09:31.2010 general election. What was set aside then was 1.5 billion in

:09:32. > :09:37.compensation, too little, and clearly there is still a debt of

:09:38. > :09:44.honour. The current position is that there are effectively four sets of

:09:45. > :09:50.people involved, the with profits annuities of which there are 35,858

:09:51. > :09:58.who have been paid out 336 million. There are the pre-92 with profits

:09:59. > :10:01.annuities who were left out of the scheme deliberately because the

:10:02. > :10:11.government took the view that those taking out a policy before the 1st

:10:12. > :10:16.of September 1992 were outside the compensation limits. Back to me was

:10:17. > :10:17.wrong. Those people could not have known this scandal was going on

:10:18. > :10:28.either. I'm delighted the then Chancellor

:10:29. > :10:35.provided a payment of ?5,000 to 9000 people, and extended that to ?10,000

:10:36. > :10:43.to those on pension credit. We also then had the non-profit annuities.

:10:44. > :10:51.There's over a million of those. They've received busbar ?749

:10:52. > :10:57.million, but only 22.4% of their actual losses -- thus far. This is

:10:58. > :11:01.an arbitrary number. It cannot be right that if the government has

:11:02. > :11:05.accepted it is responsible for the pensions of those individuals, they

:11:06. > :11:10.get an arbitrary level, merely because that is the balance left

:11:11. > :11:14.within the money that is set aside. All I would ask my honourable friend

:11:15. > :11:18.on the front bench to do is to say, we will keep this under review and

:11:19. > :11:24.as the economy recovers, that compensation should be paid out.

:11:25. > :11:28.Policyholders in my constituency who did the right thing have been left

:11:29. > :11:31.in dire straits through no fault of their own. Given that even modest

:11:32. > :11:35.additional sums can make a difference, does he agree it must be

:11:36. > :11:42.possible at the very least to do better than 22% and link that to be

:11:43. > :11:44.improving public finances? I thank the honourable gentleman for that

:11:45. > :11:49.intervention and clearly we can do better and we should do better. It

:11:50. > :11:53.is unfair on those individuals, many of whom will be approaching

:11:54. > :11:58.retirement now and seeking to draw on those pension pots, who will not

:11:59. > :12:04.know what security they have in their old age. Just to get 22.4% is

:12:05. > :12:09.absolutely unacceptable and quite clearly is going to continue, this

:12:10. > :12:15.battle will continue until such time as they do receive the compensation

:12:16. > :12:18.they are due. I'm grateful to him and all the work he's done over so

:12:19. > :12:22.many years, he deserves huge credit. Would my honourable friend agree

:12:23. > :12:26.with me that at such a time when we quite rightly are seeking to show

:12:27. > :12:32.the UK is the world financial Centre, that at the same time, we

:12:33. > :12:36.need to show that we have the best possible regulation, and that in a

:12:37. > :12:42.case like this where regulation has let people down that we are prepared

:12:43. > :12:44.to stand behind them? I trust my honourable friend will make a

:12:45. > :12:53.further contribution to the bait tick-macro debate later. That is the

:12:54. > :12:57.position and we should ensure that London remains the financial centre

:12:58. > :13:04.of the world and we can be trusted to look after people's investments.

:13:05. > :13:10.I have a number of constituents affected by this. He talks of people

:13:11. > :13:14.reaching their old age. Is it not simply the case that the

:13:15. > :13:23.compensation is too little, there is also an increasing risk it comes too

:13:24. > :13:30.late? The longer justice is delayed, the greater justice is denied?

:13:31. > :13:35.Unfortunately as we know many of the individuals affected by this scandal

:13:36. > :13:39.are deep into old age. They may be very vulnerable. Regrettably there

:13:40. > :13:42.are fewer and fewer every day. Every day that goes by without them

:13:43. > :13:47.receiving their proper compensation, maintains the scandal. And actually

:13:48. > :13:53.the obligation we have. I will give way... My honourable friend just

:13:54. > :13:55.made an important point about the significance of London's

:13:56. > :13:59.international reputation. Part of that depends on the strength of our

:14:00. > :14:03.regulatory environment. Does it follow as a matter of good policy as

:14:04. > :14:06.well as common decency that when there is a massive regulatory

:14:07. > :14:10.failure, government should be seen to stand behind those who lose out

:14:11. > :14:17.in consequence? I absolutely agree with that comment and I think it's

:14:18. > :14:22.quite clear. I think there is something I just want to say about

:14:23. > :14:28.the commitments we've made. As I said, the former Chancellor accepted

:14:29. > :14:33.at the dispatch box the reality that, and he said, I accept the

:14:34. > :14:36.findings of the Parliamentary ombudsman in full. Let us be clear

:14:37. > :14:43.what the findings of the ombudsman were at the time. Those were that

:14:44. > :14:48.the ten years, ten years, there had been a decade of regulatory failure.

:14:49. > :14:52.That has been responsible for the losses suffered by pensioners when

:14:53. > :15:01.Equitable Life collapsed. She recommended in a report that was

:15:02. > :15:07.2872 pages long, that the government should restore complainants to the

:15:08. > :15:12.position they would have been in had maladministration not occurred. The

:15:13. > :15:18.reality is, that I believe that we should ensure that we honour those

:15:19. > :15:25.commitments we've made. But we honour the position. I note my

:15:26. > :15:29.honourable friend on the front bench is, of course, a former member of

:15:30. > :15:34.your party group and a strong supporter of justice for the

:15:35. > :15:38.Equitable Life policyholders. I know he will want to do the best he can

:15:39. > :15:49.put those people that have suffered such losses. So, simply, Mr Deputy

:15:50. > :15:52.Speaker, he asked today is this. For the pre-1992 annuitants, the most

:15:53. > :15:57.vulnerable, the people who are no longer with us every single day

:15:58. > :16:01.there are fewer and fewer of them. To be compensated in full, even

:16:02. > :16:06.though this is outside the scope of the legislation. It would cost the

:16:07. > :16:12.government less than ?100 million for full compensation for those

:16:13. > :16:17.individuals. With the people that have just received 22.4% of their

:16:18. > :16:23.losses, a plan set out so they will receive full compensation. It may

:16:24. > :16:27.take time, I'm not expecting it to happen straightaway. It may take

:16:28. > :16:30.time but those people should receive their compensation as the economy

:16:31. > :16:37.recovers and possibly we should have a plan that goes in line with

:16:38. > :16:46.recovery of the economy. That would be fair, reasonable and equitable. I

:16:47. > :16:52.conclude by saying this. I look forward to my honourable friend

:16:53. > :16:57.giving us some commitments, giving us some clear guidance on what the

:16:58. > :17:01.Treasury will do, to assist those people who invested and did the

:17:02. > :17:06.right thing. It is a debt of honour that this House owes to those

:17:07. > :17:10.individuals, and we will not rest, those of us that support these

:17:11. > :17:13.honourable people, we will not rest until such time as they receive

:17:14. > :17:18.every penny piece of the compensation to which they are

:17:19. > :17:24.entitled. The question is, as on the order paper, I'm going to bring

:17:25. > :17:29.Fabian Hamilton in but can I just say, if we take around ten minutes,

:17:30. > :17:34.everybody will have an equal time, including for the second debate as

:17:35. > :17:39.well. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable member for Harrow East

:17:40. > :17:43.with whom I've worked for the last few years as the co-chair, something

:17:44. > :17:47.I should declare to you, the co-chair of the all-party

:17:48. > :17:52.Parliamentary Group for justice that equitable pensioners. Mr Deputy

:17:53. > :17:58.Speaker, I am very sad that after so many years of debating this issue we

:17:59. > :18:02.are back once again today. Talking about the continuing losses suffered

:18:03. > :18:06.by hundreds of thousands of equitable policyholders. They

:18:07. > :18:10.invested as we've heard, in the world's oldest life assurance

:18:11. > :18:14.company in the belief they would be able to have a comfortable old age.

:18:15. > :18:20.Instead after a lifetime of saving they find themselves sometimes

:18:21. > :18:29.destitute, and often much poorer, through no fault of their own. Would

:18:30. > :18:33.he agree with me that the issue is not just one of restitution or those

:18:34. > :18:38.of our constituents lost out but it's also about confidence in the

:18:39. > :18:44.whole savings culture for future generations, which is so important.

:18:45. > :18:48.Yes, I would indeed agree with the honourable member and I will go on

:18:49. > :18:53.to say something about that. I think there's also a third dimension, that

:18:54. > :18:58.is we have a moral duty to ensure that those Equitable Life

:18:59. > :19:06.policyholders are compensated. How have we arrived here at this point

:19:07. > :19:09.in time, 17 years after Equitable closed its doors to new investors

:19:10. > :19:13.and seven years after the last government promised to ensure that

:19:14. > :19:18.the losses incurred by Equitable policyholders would be compensated.

:19:19. > :19:22.My first involvement in the Equitable saga was to speak in an

:19:23. > :19:29.adjournment debate that I tabled in Westminster Hall on the 24th of June

:19:30. > :19:33.2009. In that debate, I spoke about the serious issues facing all our

:19:34. > :19:36.constituents since the crash of Equitable Life following its

:19:37. > :19:41.inability to meet its obligations and promises made to investors over

:19:42. > :19:47.the decades. Equitable Life had started selling pensions as early as

:19:48. > :19:52.1913, but it wasn't until 1957 that the society started selling its now

:19:53. > :19:56.infamous guaranteed annuity rate pensions which promised a clear and

:19:57. > :20:01.unambiguous return on capital invested. But carried on until 1988,

:20:02. > :20:07.when the society realised its rates were so good, and so far ahead of

:20:08. > :20:11.the rest of the market, that they were in reality totally

:20:12. > :20:17.unsustainable. In December 2000, Equitable Life was. To closed to new

:20:18. > :20:21.business, by that time, yes indeed. In that year, there was, to me, the

:20:22. > :20:27.rather surprising Appeal Court judgment that those who had put more

:20:28. > :20:32.money in and got greater rate of return is, totally missed the point

:20:33. > :20:35.that all policyholders were members of the society. The senior judges

:20:36. > :20:41.didn't understand fully the consequences of what they were

:20:42. > :20:46.doing, it was unfair on too many. I completely agree with the point he's

:20:47. > :20:50.made. Unfortunately, time limits me on what I can actually say about

:20:51. > :20:55.that judgment so I want to go on and talk more about what we need to do

:20:56. > :20:59.now. By the time that Equitable was full to close it had more than 1.5

:21:00. > :21:05.million members, one of the bigger societies in the world. In July

:21:06. > :21:10.2008, the Parliamentary ombudsman... Wouldn't he agree that many of those

:21:11. > :21:15.members work in modest employment, with a modest earnings, often in the

:21:16. > :21:22.public or voluntary sector? I would agree and it's a point I'm going to

:21:23. > :21:27.make. It's the very reason I took up this cause in the first place. Like

:21:28. > :21:32.many of my colleagues, I believed that Equitable was an investment

:21:33. > :21:34.that only the wealthy maids, and that people with hundreds of

:21:35. > :21:39.thousands to put into their pensions were going to seek to make a huge

:21:40. > :21:45.return, when in fact I discovered the average pension pot was just

:21:46. > :21:49.?45,000. It was ordinary people say things ?20 or ?30 a month over a

:21:50. > :21:53.working life that were investing in Equitable. Does the honourable

:21:54. > :21:57.member agree with me that there is an important business case that the

:21:58. > :22:00.government to do more, because if people can't support themselves with

:22:01. > :22:04.the income they expected, that burden will fall on the state, all

:22:05. > :22:11.the more reason to do more now. That's absolutely it very good

:22:12. > :22:15.point. People had been encouraged to save exactly because neither the

:22:16. > :22:19.state nor the individual wanted to depend on the state always coming up

:22:20. > :22:25.with the money that was necessary to enable them to have a full and

:22:26. > :22:30.enriching retirement. It was about self-reliance. That is the very

:22:31. > :22:34.core, I think, of the arguments today and the arguments we've had

:22:35. > :22:38.over many years in debates in this House. But people helping to provide

:22:39. > :22:42.for themselves and being encouraged to invest in Equitable whether

:22:43. > :22:47.people that have been let down. Not the wealthy, the ordinary person,

:22:48. > :22:50.putting aside a little bit more for their retirement so they could have

:22:51. > :22:57.a comfortable retirement, and that has now gone. He mentions over 1

:22:58. > :23:02.million people that were subscribing to the Equitable Life pension funds.

:23:03. > :23:07.Over 900 of those people in my constituency, many of whom are just

:23:08. > :23:12.about managing people, doing the right thing but now just about

:23:13. > :23:16.managing at the very best. This is about maladministration of previous

:23:17. > :23:19.governments. Is it not incumbent on this government to at least open the

:23:20. > :23:25.door a bit more to an improved offer, possibly over time, to make

:23:26. > :23:28.this a fair deal for those savers? I thank the honourable gentleman to

:23:29. > :23:33.his intervention. One of the great things we do in this House is work

:23:34. > :23:40.on moral issues like Equitable together across party lines. I'm

:23:41. > :23:44.proud to work with the member of the Harrow East, because he has done an

:23:45. > :23:51.awful lot. I pay tribute to the work he's done. I've done my best to work

:23:52. > :23:56.collectively and collaboratively. We need to do this together but it is a

:23:57. > :23:59.moral issue, as I will elaborate. In July 2008 the Parliamentary

:24:00. > :24:06.ombudsman published her first report into Equitable Life. On the 11th of

:24:07. > :24:12.December that year, the public Administration Committee produced a

:24:13. > :24:16.report entitled Justice Delayed. It said over the last eight years many

:24:17. > :24:20.of those members and their families have suffered great anxiety as

:24:21. > :24:24.policy values were cut and pension payments reduced. Many are no longer

:24:25. > :24:29.alive and will be unable to benefit personally from any compensation. We

:24:30. > :24:33.share both a deep sense of frustration and continuing outrage

:24:34. > :24:39.that the situation has remained unresolved for so long. Well, Mr

:24:40. > :24:42.Deputy Speaker, there was no shortage of reports, just a shortage

:24:43. > :24:46.of justice for those who, through no fault of their own, had suffered

:24:47. > :24:51.huge losses in the life savings they had accrued over years of hard work.

:24:52. > :24:55.At the core of the problem is the fact that Equitable Life simply

:24:56. > :25:00.couldn't meet the obligations it had made for itself, because it had made

:25:01. > :25:05.no provision for guarantees against low interest rates and policies

:25:06. > :25:12.issued before 1988. It therefore declared that bonuses out of all

:25:13. > :25:15.proportion to its profits and assets, following the ruling of the

:25:16. > :25:17.House of Lords in July 2000, the society effectively stopped taking

:25:18. > :25:18.new business in December of that year, which spelt the end of the

:25:19. > :25:32.Equitable. Over 1 million found they had severe

:25:33. > :25:37.cuts in their bonuses. The average investment for the 500,000

:25:38. > :25:44.individual policyholders was just ?45,000, which according to Emag,

:25:45. > :25:50.even at its height, would have yielded no more than ?300 per month.

:25:51. > :25:55.In its December 2008 report one of the recommendations of the public

:25:56. > :25:59.administration committee stated, we support the ombudsman's

:26:00. > :26:03.recommendation for the creation of a compensation scheme to pay for the

:26:04. > :26:06.loss that has been suffered by members as a result of

:26:07. > :26:10.maladministration, where regulators have been shown to fail so

:26:11. > :26:16.thoroughly, compensation should be in duty, not a matter of choice.

:26:17. > :26:22.Reacting to the government lack of response to the ombudsman report,

:26:23. > :26:28.the conservative opposition stated its determination to introduce a

:26:29. > :26:31.Equitable payments Bill should it form a government after the

:26:32. > :26:36.forthcoming general election of 2010. One of the coalition's

:26:37. > :26:42.agreements plans for legislation included such a Bill, which was

:26:43. > :26:46.introduced in June 2010, shortly after the government took office. On

:26:47. > :26:53.the 10th of November at committee stage, I tabled an amendment

:26:54. > :27:00.supported by my honourable friend which would have included the

:27:01. > :27:03.pre-1992 with profits annuitants which had been excluded from the

:27:04. > :27:10.proposed compensation scheme at the bell. The Bill offered 100%

:27:11. > :27:18.compensation to all with profits annuitants who took out annuities

:27:19. > :27:22.after September 19 92. And 22% to every other policyholder. Many

:27:23. > :27:29.members of this House from all sides felt it was inherently unfair as the

:27:30. > :27:33.date of 1st of September 1992 was somewhat arbitrary and this small

:27:34. > :27:38.group of with profits annuitants was the eldest and by far the most

:27:39. > :27:42.vulnerable. Many of them would not even live to enjoy the compensation

:27:43. > :27:49.were it to be paid and that has been borne out. My amendment to the Bill

:27:50. > :27:53.simply red, payments authorised by the Treasury under this section to

:27:54. > :27:58.with profits annuitants shall be made without regard to the date on

:27:59. > :28:02.which such policies were taken out. The public bill offers help me to

:28:03. > :28:09.draft that. The debate on the amendment took just over two hours

:28:10. > :28:14.but was lost by 76 votes in favour to 301 against that strongly set out

:28:15. > :28:20.the case to include the pre-1992 with profits annuitants. The Bill

:28:21. > :28:24.received Royal assent in 2011 and the compensation scheme was set in

:28:25. > :28:29.motion. At first it was slow, but it picked up over subsequent years and

:28:30. > :28:38.by January 2015, over ?1 billion had been paid to 896,000 policyholders

:28:39. > :28:41.although more than 142,000 were still to be found and could not be

:28:42. > :28:51.traced at the time. The scheme has now closed. 37,000 with profits

:28:52. > :29:02.annuitants, or their estates, were issued payments by the scheme. These

:29:03. > :29:07.payments totalled ?271.4 million. In conclusion, I have to give credit to

:29:08. > :29:11.the previous coalition government for introducing a compensation

:29:12. > :29:16.scheme from which the majority of policyholders received 22p in the

:29:17. > :29:21.pound, which is a lot better than nothing. When we examine the

:29:22. > :29:29.compensation paid at that time to investors following the collapse of

:29:30. > :29:34.Icelandic banks in 2008, for which every investor received up to

:29:35. > :29:40.?50,000 of losses in full, the Equitable scheme looks less than

:29:41. > :29:46.generous. Given the average policy involved a total sum invested

:29:47. > :29:52.?45,000, it seems unfair to Equitable policyholders they did not

:29:53. > :29:56.receive more, which is why Emag continues to campaign for full

:29:57. > :30:00.compensation for all Equitable policyholders in a reasonable way,

:30:01. > :30:05.in line with the growth of the economy, not all at once, and is why

:30:06. > :30:11.so many members from the house continue to support that view.

:30:12. > :30:15.Equitable policyholders have been patient. They understand the

:30:16. > :30:19.recession at the time meant austerity and a huge shortage of

:30:20. > :30:24.money available for many parts of government and the state. But what

:30:25. > :30:29.they cannot understand is that as the economy grows, they are denied

:30:30. > :30:36.further payments against their real losses. I have heard heartbreaking

:30:37. > :30:42.stories from individuals, constituents, some of whom have lost

:30:43. > :30:45.everything, including their homes, all because of Equitable's failure

:30:46. > :30:54.and the company's quote, catastrophic regulation. I have said

:30:55. > :30:56.this is fundamentally a moral issue. When government is supposed to

:30:57. > :31:02.protect the life savings of individuals who have been encouraged

:31:03. > :31:08.to provide for themselves, then it has a duty to ensure the losses

:31:09. > :31:14.incurred be adequately compensated. This obligation I believe should

:31:15. > :31:19.come above pet projects such as perhaps HS2 and maybe Trident

:31:20. > :31:22.renewal. Or the whole fabric of trust in the state will be damaged,

:31:23. > :31:31.which I believe is what has happened in this case. Finally I urge all

:31:32. > :31:35.members of this House to continue to uphold the cause of Equitable

:31:36. > :31:38.policyholders and try to restore their faith in the ability of this

:31:39. > :31:46.House as the elected representatives of the people properly to compensate

:31:47. > :31:50.victims of one of the greatest financial scandals of our age. I

:31:51. > :31:54.believe we have a moral duty and should not be afraid to carry it

:31:55. > :32:01.out. Point of order. I should have

:32:02. > :32:11.declared I have a small equitable life policy when I intervened. We

:32:12. > :32:16.are grateful for his corrections. It is a pleasure to follow the

:32:17. > :32:23.honourable member and indeed my honourable member, -- friend, the

:32:24. > :32:30.honourable member for Harrow East. They deserve credit for the work

:32:31. > :32:37.done. They have worked absolutely tirelessly on this issue. As the

:32:38. > :32:42.honourable gentleman has said, the bulk of Equitable Life losers were

:32:43. > :32:45.modest people who had bought into what successive governments of all

:32:46. > :32:50.parties had told them was the right thing to do, to save for retirement

:32:51. > :32:55.and put something aside and it will benefit. They did what they were

:32:56. > :33:03.told to be the right thing. Why did they lose? Because of catastrophic

:33:04. > :33:09.errors by the company and also by a catastrophic error of regulation.

:33:10. > :33:11.The government creates the regulator and the government ultimately must

:33:12. > :33:17.bear the responsibility for that failure. I do not mean it in a

:33:18. > :33:22.partisan sense, but morally they must be prepared to do so. I give

:33:23. > :33:26.way. I have resisted the case for full

:33:27. > :33:32.compensation on the basis of two arguments and one of them is that if

:33:33. > :33:37.the returns were too good to be true, investors will to have spotted

:33:38. > :33:41.that. However, I have begun to wonder if this argument is any

:33:42. > :33:45.longer sustainable, because if the benefits were too good to be true,

:33:46. > :33:49.the regulator should have spotted that. This is a regulated market in

:33:50. > :33:56.which ordinary investors ought to have had confidence.

:33:57. > :34:00.He is absolutely spot on. That is precisely the gravity of the

:34:01. > :34:05.regulatory failure, not just the process that went wrong, it is the

:34:06. > :34:07.fundamental failure to see it was something put into the market that

:34:08. > :34:17.should have been ringing alarm bells. That is an important point

:34:18. > :34:21.and that is why the case the government should respect, proper

:34:22. > :34:25.compensation, is all the stronger. It was a superficially attractive

:34:26. > :34:30.argument put out early on but it was too good to be true so you do it at

:34:31. > :34:36.your own risk as it was said at one time, these people were lawyers,

:34:37. > :34:41.barristers, solicitors, consultants, the comfortable middle-class. It was

:34:42. > :34:44.not the case. I have dozens of victims of Equitable Life in my

:34:45. > :34:51.constituency and most are indeed everyday modest people who had jobs

:34:52. > :34:55.that enabled them to put a little aside and they had done so in good

:34:56. > :35:00.faith and they were let down by the system, and it was a government

:35:01. > :35:06.regulated system that let them down. That is why the obligation is very

:35:07. > :35:13.strong. My honourable friend referred to the work of Emag. I

:35:14. > :35:20.should declare my interest on this. I pay tribute to constituents of

:35:21. > :35:25.mine who have galvanised our own local group of victims and they work

:35:26. > :35:30.hard to keep people, many of whom are elderly, in the loop as to what

:35:31. > :35:35.is happening and that is a valuable service. It has been said, the

:35:36. > :35:42.amount of information available in the compensation scheme, the way it

:35:43. > :35:47.worked, was less than user-friendly to put it mildly. There was a lack

:35:48. > :35:51.of transparency and quite difficult for people in difficult

:35:52. > :35:58.circumstances to navigate. The work Emag did to help them is important.

:35:59. > :36:06.The moral case I suggest is overwhelming. It is right to the

:36:07. > :36:10.coalition government moved when the previous government sadly had done

:36:11. > :36:15.nothing. It is fair to say something is better than nothing, but that is

:36:16. > :36:23.not really a sound basis for policy in morality or in terms of good

:36:24. > :36:27.governance. Something was given, circumstances would permit now to

:36:28. > :36:33.give more. The distinction between...

:36:34. > :36:36.I will give way. Do you agree the policyholders do not regard what

:36:37. > :36:42.they are entitled to as compensation, they want back the

:36:43. > :36:44.money they saved, their own money they put into their long-term

:36:45. > :36:52.pension savings and which they believed would be returned with a

:36:53. > :36:55.reasonable return when they retired? We use compensation in the technical

:36:56. > :37:02.sense rather than in the morale at he of what has happened. It is right

:37:03. > :37:09.that the honourable member referred to it as a Ponzi scheme. In other

:37:10. > :37:20.generic -- jurisdictions it would be regarded as a fraud. The system

:37:21. > :37:22.supposed to protect them failed. At the time very compensation scheme

:37:23. > :37:27.was introduced finances were difficult. Things have improved and

:37:28. > :37:32.it is not unreasonable to think those people should be compensated

:37:33. > :37:40.more now than was the case. The distinction between the pre-1992 and

:37:41. > :37:46.post, it was at best arbitrary. The case is made in a legalistic and

:37:47. > :37:54.try, desiccated, calculating machine, type of terms. It does not

:37:55. > :37:57.hold water to anyone who looks at it through a measure of human decency

:37:58. > :38:04.and broadness in terms of the impact on public confidence. I think the

:38:05. > :38:07.government let itself down under that arrangement, though it was

:38:08. > :38:12.better than nothing. Now we can do better and that is what I urge the

:38:13. > :38:16.government to do. As well as the moral case there is the important

:38:17. > :38:22.case to be made about the importance for this country of good governance

:38:23. > :38:28.in the financial services sector. I am an advocate of Britain's

:38:29. > :38:33.financial services. 36% of constituents work in that sector. It

:38:34. > :38:39.is a massive earner for the country and a jewel in the economic crown.

:38:40. > :38:43.It succeeds because of its reputation for integrity and that

:38:44. > :38:49.reputation is fundamentally based upon the strength of its regulatory

:38:50. > :38:55.structures. When there is a failure and it is not followed by a proper

:38:56. > :39:01.level of redress for those who lose out, the confidence in the financial

:39:02. > :39:08.sector is dented and damaged. As we emerge from the European Union, I

:39:09. > :39:12.regret that, but that is where we are, the international reputation of

:39:13. > :39:17.the financial services sector will be more important. It is in our

:39:18. > :39:22.national self-interest to ensure we seem to be 100% behind that those

:39:23. > :39:29.who invest prudently into our financial institutions, the Shoreham

:39:30. > :39:33.sector is something Britain is a world leader in, but this failure

:39:34. > :39:38.had potential to damage it. It will always be held against us unless we

:39:39. > :39:43.do something to get this right. In the scheme of national benefit this

:39:44. > :39:48.sector brings to the country, doing justice to the Equitable Life losers

:39:49. > :39:54.would be a drop in the ocean financially compared with the

:39:55. > :39:58.rewards for the financial services sector and what it brings in.

:39:59. > :40:03.Perhaps that reason the government would think again, if not out of

:40:04. > :40:04.moral decency, also perhaps out of long-term national economic

:40:05. > :40:13.self-interest. Thank you. May I stop by paying

:40:14. > :40:16.tribute to those who have secured this debate, particularly the

:40:17. > :40:20.honourable member for Harrow East who has worked so tirelessly on the

:40:21. > :40:28.half of the victims of the Equitable Life failure. -- on behalf of the

:40:29. > :40:31.victims. It seems to me the Equitable Life policyholders have

:40:32. > :40:36.been failed by three bodies. First of all they were failed by the life

:40:37. > :40:40.insurance scheme they invested in. Secondly by the regulator. And

:40:41. > :40:44.thirdly, they've been failed by the government who haven't done enough,

:40:45. > :40:46.although I should acknowledge this government and the previous

:40:47. > :40:49.government did actually move to do something. That should be

:40:50. > :40:55.acknowledged in this debate. The point of the debate is they have a

:40:56. > :41:06.duty to do more, for moral reasons, and also, as others have said, to

:41:07. > :41:11.underwrite confidence in the financial sector across the UK. In

:41:12. > :41:15.Edinburgh South West that financial sector is extremely important. Many

:41:16. > :41:18.of my constituents work in the financial sector in Edinburgh and

:41:19. > :41:24.it's the second largest financial sector in the UK after London. I

:41:25. > :41:29.have a number of constituents who are victims of the Equitable Life

:41:30. > :41:33.collapse. I want to say a bit about two or three of their personal

:41:34. > :41:39.experiences this afternoon. Others have already dealt more eloquently

:41:40. > :41:45.than I can with the nub of the issue but basically, it's the shortfall,

:41:46. > :41:50.the difference between which the previous Chancellor, the amount he

:41:51. > :41:54.created in his 1.5 billion scheme. At the same time he admitted the

:41:55. > :41:59.total loss was 4.1 billion. There is a difference of 2.6 billion. It

:42:00. > :42:04.seems to me that in the great scheme of things, that isn't a huge amount

:42:05. > :42:07.of money. When we look against the background of the principles that

:42:08. > :42:14.should govern this situation, it's not a huge amount of money either. I

:42:15. > :42:17.just want to briefly Ali to the fact the government initially attempted

:42:18. > :42:23.to exclude all of those who took out schemes prior to 1992 -- briefly

:42:24. > :42:25.alluded. That would have been the oldest, most vulnerable and most

:42:26. > :42:33.incapable of making their voice heard in this situation. The

:42:34. > :42:37.government's sticking plaster doesn't cover the full amount is

:42:38. > :42:45.lost and continues the fairness to those least likely to be able to

:42:46. > :42:48.continue the fight against the injustice. Every government has to

:42:49. > :42:54.choose its priorities. The government's choice to fail to fully

:42:55. > :42:59.compensate those who are unlikely to be alive long enough to provide the

:43:00. > :43:03.sustained pressure necessary to reverse this decision, is most

:43:04. > :43:08.unfortunate. I would pause to say that this is not the first time this

:43:09. > :43:11.government has failed on compensation, or failed on

:43:12. > :43:15.regulation. I have been present in the chamber for the debate about the

:43:16. > :43:19.losses of the investors in the context income fund and I have

:43:20. > :43:26.constituents who have suffered as a result of that also -- Connacht

:43:27. > :43:30.income fund. There is also the issue of the women who made investments in

:43:31. > :43:36.the future according to the rules they understood to be the case at

:43:37. > :43:43.the time. I've been receiving messages reminding me to mention

:43:44. > :43:48.them, reminding me that they have suffered a similar injustice. I want

:43:49. > :43:51.to just say something about the effect upon three of my

:43:52. > :43:55.constituents. I'm not going to name them because for reasons of personal

:43:56. > :44:02.privacy they would prefer not to have their names mentioned. All call

:44:03. > :44:08.them A, Mr B and Mr C Mr a started to run his own business in his 40s.

:44:09. > :44:13.He took up three pensions, to fit himself and one for his wife who was

:44:14. > :44:17.a partner in the business. When Equitable Life became unable to

:44:18. > :44:21.support itself and deliver on what it promised, him and his wife lost

:44:22. > :44:24.their guaranteed annuity rates as the company tried to avoid

:44:25. > :44:30.liquidation. At that stage they were only getting 50% of the rate they

:44:31. > :44:37.had been promised by the company. When the coalition government

:44:38. > :44:40.announced its plan for a compensation scheme, Mr A expected

:44:41. > :44:44.to be reimbursed to a degree that would at least allow him to lead the

:44:45. > :44:48.sort of like he'd hoped for in his old age when he took the scheme is

:44:49. > :44:52.out in the 1980s. However, what happened to him was when he was

:44:53. > :44:57.compensated he realised he had only received about 4% of the money owed

:44:58. > :45:02.to him, and his appeal was successful in that it was upheld by

:45:03. > :45:07.the independent panel. The recalculation has never been carried

:45:08. > :45:16.out despite a strenuous effort of my predecessor. Mr A still doesn't even

:45:17. > :45:20.have the 50% compensation that he expected to receive. This means that

:45:21. > :45:24.him and his wife had had to lower their expectations of what they

:45:25. > :45:30.expected of their old age. They've had to use the equitable relief

:45:31. > :45:36.scheme to release funds on their home, to help them manage. This is

:45:37. > :45:40.something they wouldn't have expected to have had to do and they

:45:41. > :45:47.planned against doing. The second argument I have used to resist full

:45:48. > :45:54.compensation is that we would be requiring taxpayers, and I accept

:45:55. > :45:58.the annuitants where taxpayers, but we would be requiring taxpayers,

:45:59. > :46:03.many of whom would never have been able themselves to afford the

:46:04. > :46:09.payments we are now compensating the annuitants. However, given the

:46:10. > :46:15.evidence we've been producing about the modesty of so many of the

:46:16. > :46:21.annuitants, that has affected the argument. But equally, I wonder if

:46:22. > :46:32.it is sustainable that justice should be subject to a means test.

:46:33. > :46:38.If I may say so, he's obviously thought this through carefully. I

:46:39. > :46:41.think the conclusions he has come to and the conclusions he is moving

:46:42. > :46:50.towards on his second concern are very wise. As somebody else pointed

:46:51. > :46:54.out, the whole purpose of having a regulator is to spot when what's

:46:55. > :47:00.been promised is not realistic. In our democracy with checks and

:47:01. > :47:06.balances whether regulators, ordinary investors are entitled to

:47:07. > :47:09.assume that if what was a very well-respected and reputable company

:47:10. > :47:14.makes certain promises and the regulator doesn't say is dangerous,

:47:15. > :47:17.these won't fly by night investments so far as my constituents were

:47:18. > :47:24.concerned. They were investments in what was a very old and well

:47:25. > :47:30.respected company. I just want to say a bit about Mr B, the second and

:47:31. > :47:37.to men who came to see me recently about this issue. He's his 80s now

:47:38. > :47:42.and his memory is fading a bit. He was a shopkeeper, just the kind of

:47:43. > :47:48.small businessman that the Conservative government purports to

:47:49. > :47:53.support, and indeed, the Scottish National Party also are a party that

:47:54. > :47:57.encourages entrepreneurialism and small businesses. It's in the

:47:58. > :48:02.interests of all of us that such entrepreneurialism be encouraged. Mr

:48:03. > :48:10.B to cut his Equitable Life policy 40 years ago, and he has suffered

:48:11. > :48:14.hugely. He told me that he, whenever he thinks about what happened to him

:48:15. > :48:18.and the losses he is sustained, he said he finds it hard to describe

:48:19. > :48:23.the pain that it makes him feel when he thinks about it. He ran a shop in

:48:24. > :48:25.a particular area of Edinburgh and a lot of his customers were

:48:26. > :48:30.professional people who had also invested in the scheme and told him

:48:31. > :48:34.it was a good thing. He proceeded with all due caution. He said to my

:48:35. > :48:39.office that what he feels he's looking for is not very much, just

:48:40. > :48:42.for his rights and his reasonable expectations to be respected. He

:48:43. > :48:48.wanted me to make it clear today that he feels the current situation

:48:49. > :48:54.of and the compensation underlined his belief that ideas of trust and

:48:55. > :49:00.bond, which he says used to be in his opinion so important investment,

:49:01. > :49:03.to have no place in the modern world of financial transactions. It's very

:49:04. > :49:08.unfortunate that an elderly gentleman such as Mr B who has

:49:09. > :49:12.worked so hard all his life should have reached that conclusion. He's

:49:13. > :49:17.also very anxious that this stage late on in life, if he isn't able to

:49:18. > :49:23.pay the debts which the Equitable Life scheme should have covered,

:49:24. > :49:27.he's going to lose his home. And Mr C, another constituent, his losses

:49:28. > :49:35.are pretty substantial. He told me he believes his losses are upwards

:49:36. > :49:39.of 200,000. Mr C was a shopkeeper and he feels that, as he's getting

:49:40. > :49:43.old now, in the year could be his last and time is quickly running out

:49:44. > :49:47.to find the justice which he deserves. Today I'm making a

:49:48. > :49:53.heartfelt plea to the Minister on behalf of constituents such as Mr A,

:49:54. > :49:59.B and C, to look at the situation again. I did write the Chancellor in

:50:00. > :50:05.of the last budget about these matters, and the Minister was very

:50:06. > :50:09.generous in his reply and dealt with matters in some detail. I realise

:50:10. > :50:14.that to a certain extent, his hands may be tight. What I want to do

:50:15. > :50:20.today is to make a plea for him to go to the Chancellor, to revisit

:50:21. > :50:32.this issue, so that the compensation payments can be considerably

:50:33. > :50:37.increased, for all our constituents, particularly those in the position

:50:38. > :50:42.of Waspi, B and C. Because it's the right thing to do, it's the moral

:50:43. > :50:47.thing to do and it's also in the interests of us all because it will

:50:48. > :50:53.increase and underlying confidence in the financial sector which is so

:50:54. > :51:00.important to the UK going forward -- Mr A, B and C. I'll be brief as

:51:01. > :51:05.we've heard so much wisdom and common-sense from all the speakers

:51:06. > :51:11.until now. I just wish to make three points, the first is around equity.

:51:12. > :51:18.People have spoken about this being the right and the moral thing to do.

:51:19. > :51:22.As my honourable friend from Harrow said, it's the equitable thing to do

:51:23. > :51:27.and indeed it is. If we look at the situation now where we are about to

:51:28. > :51:30.enter negotiations with the European Union, over what our

:51:31. > :51:35.responsibilities are towards pensioners in the European Union in

:51:36. > :51:38.the future, we will, I know, as the government, take the right and

:51:39. > :51:42.responsible attitude to that and fulfil our commitment is, as the

:51:43. > :51:46.Prime Minister has said. If that is the case it should be the case for

:51:47. > :51:51.our own pensioners through Equitable Life. We've heard, I'd heard from

:51:52. > :51:54.many constituents of the problems that have arisen as a result of the

:51:55. > :51:58.promises and commitments they understood have been made to them,

:51:59. > :52:05.which haven't been fulfilled because of a massive failure, principally by

:52:06. > :52:11.the organisation itself. But also by the regulators. Let's not forget

:52:12. > :52:15.that when we invest in organisations such as this, it's the regulators on

:52:16. > :52:21.whom we place reliance. We don't have the knowledge, the experience

:52:22. > :52:26.to know whether the promises that have been made and underwritten by

:52:27. > :52:32.the regulator can be carried out. We expect them to be carried out. Let's

:52:33. > :52:38.not forget this also occurred after the debacle over the bank, credit

:52:39. > :52:46.and commerce International in the 1980s where I believe... ?20

:52:47. > :52:53.million, and many others lost a lot of money as well. At the time, the

:52:54. > :52:56.phrase, if it looks too good to be true, it is too good to be true. One

:52:57. > :53:01.would have thought that if even someone such as myself and others

:53:02. > :53:04.took that message on board, that the regulators certainly would have

:53:05. > :53:08.taken that on board and looked very carefully at it. It's absolutely

:53:09. > :53:15.equitable that we should do whatever we can and more than has currently

:53:16. > :53:18.been done for these investors in Equitable Life. I do want to pay

:53:19. > :53:22.great tribute to the coalition government for the action they took

:53:23. > :53:30.in very difficult times, to set aside ?1.5 billion in order,

:53:31. > :53:34.partially to right this wrong. What I want to see if this government

:53:35. > :53:43.build on that, as the economy has improved. The second area is over

:53:44. > :53:47.this confidence in financial services. The UK is a world centre,

:53:48. > :53:51.whether it's in London, Edinburgh, Leeds, Birmingham, it's a world

:53:52. > :53:55.centre for financial services. As my honourable friend has said, it is

:53:56. > :53:59.something on which many of our constituents, not just in London and

:54:00. > :54:06.the south-east, but right across the UK to depend for their living. And

:54:07. > :54:13.behind all financial services lies one simple word, trust. If a

:54:14. > :54:19.country, if an organisation cannot be trusted, they will fail.

:54:20. > :54:23.Fortunately, the UK has a very, very long and, in my view, excellent

:54:24. > :54:28.reputation for the trustworthiness of its financial services sector.

:54:29. > :54:35.It is more important the blemishes that occur are set right and set

:54:36. > :54:44.right quickly and properly. The third point is, over long-term

:54:45. > :54:48.security, people want to even their wealth out over the course of their

:54:49. > :54:52.life which is why they invest in pensions. They forego spending now

:54:53. > :54:57.in order to have money to spend later when they do not have an

:54:58. > :55:01.income from employment and that is a worthy thing to do, something we

:55:02. > :55:06.should support and we supported through the tax system. We also

:55:07. > :55:13.support it through regulation. That is why it is vital in a case like

:55:14. > :55:18.this, as has been said, if this was a matter of an investment fund for

:55:19. > :55:22.people with millions to invest, who know what they are getting into and

:55:23. > :55:28.the risks involved, that is one thing. This is another thing, about

:55:29. > :55:33.people who expected pensions of perhaps ?300 per month, not at all

:55:34. > :55:40.the kind of money you can go on a lot of cruises around the world on.

:55:41. > :55:44.This is to top up the basic state pension, as every government has

:55:45. > :55:49.always wanted us to do almost for the last 100 years. In addition, I

:55:50. > :55:54.believe the country needs to do something similar. I have long

:55:55. > :56:00.advocated our country invests in a sovereign wealth fund where by we

:56:01. > :56:08.put aside money every year and don't just rely on a pay attitude and if

:56:09. > :56:11.you like, a Ponzi scheme for the national Health Service pension, and

:56:12. > :56:17.the state pension. We need to consider whether we should turn our

:56:18. > :56:22.way of looking at public finances more into the way we would expect

:56:23. > :56:25.pension funds to run their operations whereby future

:56:26. > :56:31.liabilities are met with future assets. That would allow us, when we

:56:32. > :56:38.get hiccups like this, to be able to compensate for them in full.

:56:39. > :56:42.I think in this debate the house will want to hear from the minister

:56:43. > :56:46.at some length at the end of the debate, because I notice people are

:56:47. > :56:51.asking questions which they would like the minister to answer. I want

:56:52. > :56:57.to make sure there is enough time for the minister to speak at the end

:56:58. > :57:05.of the debate. I hope that colleagues will now restrict their

:57:06. > :57:13.remarks to 8-9 minutes. I aim not to disappoint, as always.

:57:14. > :57:17.I would like to thank the Backbench Business Committee for securing this

:57:18. > :57:20.important debate and also congratulate honourable members for

:57:21. > :57:25.Harrow East and Leeds North East for their hard work over a number of

:57:26. > :57:31.years trying to secure adequate compensation for everybody who has

:57:32. > :57:34.asked out as a result of this scandal and the issue of Equitable

:57:35. > :57:40.Life and those who have lost out has been debated in this House more than

:57:41. > :57:48.15 years. There is a great deal of cross-party working on this matter.

:57:49. > :57:51.The Equitable Life members group and others have campaigned to ensure

:57:52. > :57:54.this issue is not kicked into the long grass and I'm pleased we have

:57:55. > :58:00.an opportunity to press the case for those who lost out. After a long

:58:01. > :58:05.battle I appreciate the action the government has taken to date. Those

:58:06. > :58:13.who have been affected by the scandal. As we have heard today and

:58:14. > :58:17.from our constituents, many policyholders remain short changed,

:58:18. > :58:21.with a payment of less than one quarter of compensation to which the

:58:22. > :58:27.ombudsman found they would be entitled to. The second ombudsman's

:58:28. > :58:29.report said the aim of the compensation scheme should have been

:58:30. > :58:39.to put people back into the position they would BF malice administration

:58:40. > :58:44.-- would be if maladministration had not occurred. At the core of this

:58:45. > :58:51.issue... Certainly. I am grateful for giving

:58:52. > :58:56.way. He is making powerful points, as have all speakers in the course

:58:57. > :59:01.of this debate. I have had a great number of letters from constituents

:59:02. > :59:07.who correspond about money they have lost all relatives have lost. The

:59:08. > :59:11.honourable member has rightly said they are receiving only 22% of

:59:12. > :59:17.compensation they would have expected. Is it not also the case,

:59:18. > :59:21.that we are dealing with pensioners and losing about 15 pensioners per

:59:22. > :59:27.day and perhaps if the government looked again with the increasing

:59:28. > :59:33.economy that more could be done for the people who have lost out, it

:59:34. > :59:36.needs to be done sooner rather than later.

:59:37. > :59:44.We are dealing with people who are getting on in years. It is estimated

:59:45. > :59:50.about 15 policyholders a day are dying before matters are resolved.

:59:51. > :59:55.We see this in a range of issues. The longer people wait for justice,

:59:56. > :00:05.the harder it is to appreciate justice has been served. At the core

:00:06. > :00:09.of the issue many people feel after all these years justice has not been

:00:10. > :00:16.done. This is the message that has come across from constituents.

:00:17. > :00:21.People who have worked all their lives only to find the pension pot

:00:22. > :00:28.has failed to materialise in the manner they were promised. They

:00:29. > :00:32.believed would have car. This means people who have spent decades

:00:33. > :00:39.working for a comfortable retirement have had it denied to them. It means

:00:40. > :00:44.some people are downsizing houses, remortgaging their homes even in old

:00:45. > :00:51.age to make ends meet. That is not what we want for people who have

:00:52. > :00:55.contributed throughout their lives. He is speaking powerfully as always

:00:56. > :00:59.and is right to focus on those who will not have the opportunity to

:01:00. > :01:04.recover the money lost unless the government were to change its mind.

:01:05. > :01:14.Would he agree there is a message to young people and those of us less

:01:15. > :01:19.young like myself, that we must set the example that saving and

:01:20. > :01:25.responsible action during a working life should be rewarded and there is

:01:26. > :01:28.a danger here, if we get this wrong, what we are doing is setting a

:01:29. > :01:33.lesson that people should not bother to save, because after all, it is

:01:34. > :01:37.not worth it? I'm sure he has many years to go

:01:38. > :01:49.before he reaches retirement, but that is central to what we are

:01:50. > :01:55.debating. We are entering an era where retirement ages are going to

:01:56. > :02:01.increase and there is more onus on people to take responsibility for

:02:02. > :02:05.people securing their retirement. If we have a system people are not

:02:06. > :02:08.confident in, it will not work, which is why compensation should be

:02:09. > :02:16.adhered to. One of my constituents said to me, what I find sickening is

:02:17. > :02:19.Her Majesty 's government, no matter which party is in power, have

:02:20. > :02:26.refused to act on the ombudsman's findings. That sums up where we are

:02:27. > :02:30.and it is a point made by many members already. I hope when the

:02:31. > :02:34.minister responsible update us on what the government are doing and

:02:35. > :02:40.focus on what those individuals who feel the system has short-change

:02:41. > :02:44.them are going to be expecting in terms of good news. It is not just

:02:45. > :02:48.those individuals we have heard about today, but for the whole

:02:49. > :02:55.system, the trust we have in it and should have in it to secure our

:02:56. > :03:02.future. I believe there is a need to restore confidence and build trust,

:03:03. > :03:07.not justice for those but for everyone. It was said there are

:03:08. > :03:11.uncomfortable parallels between this issue and the Waspi campaign and how

:03:12. > :03:19.people have had that confidence shattered by what they considered to

:03:20. > :03:25.be broken promises by government and institutions be placed trust in. We

:03:26. > :03:28.need to encourage people to plan for their retirement and contribute to

:03:29. > :03:34.their pensions. What kind of message does it send out to people if the

:03:35. > :03:37.government failed to properly regulate a provider and then failed

:03:38. > :03:42.to compensate people fully for their losses? It is not just trust in the

:03:43. > :03:49.finance sector at stake but trust in politics itself. The 2010

:03:50. > :03:56.Conservative manifesto included this comment that links the issues in a

:03:57. > :03:59.neat way and it was, we must not let the mis-selling of financial

:04:00. > :04:04.products put people off saving. We will implement the ombudsman's

:04:05. > :04:12.recommendations to make fair payments to Equitable Life

:04:13. > :04:16.policyholders. I think members agree it was a worthy aim and a matter of

:04:17. > :04:21.debate today whether that pledge has been met in full. I am conscious of

:04:22. > :04:29.the time. We want to hear from the minister. What has been said today

:04:30. > :04:34.by many has summed up the situation but I want to finish on what I think

:04:35. > :04:39.is a key point. A failure to correct the wrongs of the past will lead to

:04:40. > :04:44.a failure to secure confidence in the future. It is not an

:04:45. > :04:46.exaggeration to say the erosion of confidence this episode has

:04:47. > :04:53.engendered could have a greater impact in the long run than the cost

:04:54. > :04:58.of the full compensation. I hope the government will do the right thing

:04:59. > :05:02.for policyholders and to restore confidence in the system of savings

:05:03. > :05:07.and pensions. The honourable member described it as a debt of honour and

:05:08. > :05:10.that is an excellent way of putting what our obligations are. We need to

:05:11. > :05:19.act honourably and correct this injustice. One final thought is that

:05:20. > :05:24.given the age of many of the policyholders in this situation, it

:05:25. > :05:30.is clear the adage justice delayed is justice denied is never more true

:05:31. > :05:35.than in this situation. I am pleased to contribute to this

:05:36. > :05:41.debate to keep pressure on behalf of my constituents who have been hard

:05:42. > :05:45.hit and who deserve better. I thank the honourable member for bringing

:05:46. > :05:50.the debate and for his continued work on behalf of those affected.

:05:51. > :05:57.Like many, I remember the reassuring adverts that must have attracted

:05:58. > :06:01.many people. Telling us it was an Equitable Life. Clearly it was not.

:06:02. > :06:07.If there were any equity in life we would not be here today on behalf of

:06:08. > :06:11.constituents whose lives have been changed to damaging way. I

:06:12. > :06:15.understand the steps taken so far but their confidence in government

:06:16. > :06:21.and financial regulation has been shattered. Constituents like James,

:06:22. > :06:27.nor Howard, in my constituency, Howard is 81 but was a self-employed

:06:28. > :06:31.businessman and worked hard for his living and did the right things to

:06:32. > :06:38.provide financial security. Howerd ended up working he was 72. He felt

:06:39. > :06:43.he had done everything to make sure he had good financial plans in place

:06:44. > :06:50.and would not be dependent upon the stated his retirement. All his

:06:51. > :06:56.well-paid for plans are in tatters. Howerd says, all I am looking for is

:06:57. > :07:01.the repayment of what I and hundreds of others are owed and who could

:07:02. > :07:07.argue with that? I named only two constituents but like other members

:07:08. > :07:11.present, there are many others affected and similarly failed by

:07:12. > :07:17.what is a toothless regulated system that has let them down.

:07:18. > :07:23.She is making some great points. Would she agreed given the hardships

:07:24. > :07:29.some constituents have faced and the injustices and the age of some of

:07:30. > :07:33.our constituents are reaching, would she express our admiration at their

:07:34. > :07:36.determination to keep the issue on the political agenda, and continuing

:07:37. > :07:42.to fight injustice? I think he has made an excellent

:07:43. > :07:47.point. We should commend them for their work at keeping this at the

:07:48. > :07:52.forefront of our minds. A cynic might wonder about this situation,

:07:53. > :07:59.like those affected by either collapse of the core fund, whether

:08:00. > :08:07.there is a strategy of dragging out action to make sure there are fewer

:08:08. > :08:12.of those impacted still with us. It is not good enough to have the sorry

:08:13. > :08:18.saga continued. The government must deal fully with outstanding

:08:19. > :08:22.injustices felt by these unfortunate policyholders. We need to grasp the

:08:23. > :08:26.nettle and acknowledge the role that has been done and the impact on

:08:27. > :08:33.people'slives. It is essential we see action taken but also we need to

:08:34. > :08:38.make sure people can maintain confidence in pension provision and

:08:39. > :08:41.the financial and regulatory bodies. I am delighted to give way. I am

:08:42. > :08:49.grateful. She makes a powerful point. Many constituents of mine

:08:50. > :08:53.have also been in touch to say they see it as such unfairness, that they

:08:54. > :09:00.worked all their lives, paid into a scheme they thought was the right

:09:01. > :09:03.one, and that sense of unfairness is compounded by the fact that other

:09:04. > :09:06.schemes and banks that have failed have been bailed out by the

:09:07. > :09:10.government and policyholders refunded. Does she agree their

:09:11. > :09:15.grievance is perhaps all the more because so many others have been

:09:16. > :09:25.bailed out? I think it is a point well made. Equitable Life policy

:09:26. > :09:29.holders do feel this is particularly hard and it is understandable they

:09:30. > :09:34.do. We need to deal with the issue of compensation, which can only

:09:35. > :09:38.happen when we have negotiated sums involved in at the moment we are not

:09:39. > :09:43.there. After all this time the government needs to deal with these

:09:44. > :09:49.justice these people feel, that they have worked hard and saved, done all

:09:50. > :09:55.the things the government emphasised as being responsible and the way to

:09:56. > :09:58.guarantee security retirement. Not only did their hard earned money

:09:59. > :10:03.vanished that the government has failed to protect them and to

:10:04. > :10:07.compound things, failed to bring forward fair compensation. I

:10:08. > :10:10.recognise there has been compensation but those affected

:10:11. > :10:15.understandably feel it is not good enough nor right for them to lose

:10:16. > :10:19.out because the government claimed financial constraints. Why should

:10:20. > :10:23.they pay the price for the failures of Treasury regulation in the 90s.

:10:24. > :10:30.The government must realise the damage these scandals caused a

:10:31. > :10:33.public confidence. Surely righting wrongs like those suffered by

:10:34. > :10:45.Equitable Life and Connacht investors

:10:46. > :10:53.As we've heard from a number of honourable members this afternoon

:10:54. > :10:56.that are mostly women, marching on Parliament, because the UK

:10:57. > :11:03.Government has whipped the pension rug out from under their feet, and

:11:04. > :11:07.the Equitable saga goes on and on. If this government is serious about

:11:08. > :11:12.pensions, and people saving for their future, they must listen and

:11:13. > :11:23.they must act now and deal with this Equitable Life scandal once and for

:11:24. > :11:29.all. Can I congratulate her for setting the scene. In the time I'd

:11:30. > :11:38.been in this House since 2010, he has always been a champion Equitable

:11:39. > :11:48.Life policyholders. Today some seven years later, we find we are still

:11:49. > :11:52.fighting. The honourable gentleman fairleads north-east isn't in his

:11:53. > :12:05.place but he needs to be commended as well -- for Leeds North East. As

:12:06. > :12:11.both members have said and we all support continued attempts to ensure

:12:12. > :12:14.that both our constituents and my constituents aren't left financially

:12:15. > :12:18.ruined after doing their best to save for a rainy day. We haven't got

:12:19. > :12:22.a big representation in the chamber today but that doesn't take away

:12:23. > :12:26.from the importance of the debate or lessens the impact of what we are

:12:27. > :12:32.about to say. All of the honourable members have been a valuable

:12:33. > :12:38.contribution to this debate. All seeking the same thing and all

:12:39. > :12:47.looking to the Minister, in relation to delivering the answers but we

:12:48. > :12:52.want. We have to convey to you what our constituents are telling us and

:12:53. > :12:57.we need the government to know exactly where we are. Before I came

:12:58. > :13:00.to this House, when I was a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly, we

:13:01. > :13:06.had debates on this matter as well. We also had debates on it and

:13:07. > :13:10.correspondence on it when we were councillors. It was the long number

:13:11. > :13:15.of years before we came to this House. In other roles further back

:13:16. > :13:22.we were probably following these issues as well. People always say,

:13:23. > :13:26.saving for a rainy day. The rain is falling now. And it's the

:13:27. > :13:35.government's responsibility to hold out the umbrella. The newspaper

:13:36. > :13:39.overhead is starting to wear out. I believe it's time to the Minister to

:13:40. > :13:45.step up to the mark and do the right thing by these favours. Dozens of

:13:46. > :13:51.correspondence from my constituents, some of those who are quite

:13:52. > :13:56.honestly, I didn't meet any of my constituents who are recipients of

:13:57. > :14:04.Equitable Life and what in a higher income brackets... Those are the

:14:05. > :14:10.people we are talking about. The impact of these people are greater.

:14:11. > :14:14.They don't unfortunately have time on their side either. My

:14:15. > :14:16.constituents and those across Northern Ireland has spoken to me

:14:17. > :14:33.and my colleagues and this leaves an opportunity to make their case, and

:14:34. > :14:36.we'll do the same thing. Whilst I am saying that this government has paid

:14:37. > :14:45.money out, let's give credit where credit is due, at present almost ?1

:14:46. > :14:50.billion and is commendable. It's also an indication of the fact

:14:51. > :14:57.government has a responsibility and a further responsibility that needs

:14:58. > :15:02.to be fulfilled. We are currently at an ?89 billion deficit scenario and

:15:03. > :15:06.and congratulate the government on the economic policies. I mean that,

:15:07. > :15:13.because I've seen unemployment just in my area, I believe it's all part

:15:14. > :15:18.of the great economic policy of the government here in Westminster. We

:15:19. > :15:23.must seek to lower the deficit, however we must also honour our

:15:24. > :15:29.obligations. That's what we're asking the Minister to do today, the

:15:30. > :15:38.obligation. The honourable member for Leeds North East referred to the

:15:39. > :15:43.fact some of the policyholders might never see this come to a conclusion,

:15:44. > :15:47.they will live on a low income until the day they die and pass this

:15:48. > :15:51.world. I'm just wondering, if governments have a mind to settle

:15:52. > :15:55.and help out the savers, would it be something that could retrospectively

:15:56. > :16:02.be passed their families? I ask the if he would perhaps consider that in

:16:03. > :16:09.relation to my thoughts as well. I was brought up in a household that

:16:10. > :16:15.had saving drummed into us from an early age. It wasn't just the Scots

:16:16. > :16:19.background we had that meant every pound was a prisoner, but we were

:16:20. > :16:23.encouraged up an early age to have savings. We've done that through our

:16:24. > :16:27.whole life and it was good to be that way. It gives you the value of

:16:28. > :16:33.money. And there wasn't much of it. But it gives you an idea of what we

:16:34. > :16:37.need to do. Had a bit aside for the future was something repeated often

:16:38. > :16:43.and is something I tried in still in my own boys. Times have changed as

:16:44. > :16:47.well. It's difficult for my boys to buy a house and live their lives,

:16:48. > :16:51.never mind saving their wages. Government have put schemes in place

:16:52. > :16:56.to encourage saving but the question must be asked, why bother when we

:16:57. > :16:59.have an example of a generation, the generation just before us and

:17:00. > :17:02.alongside us, who scrimped and saved and die in a position where they

:17:03. > :17:08.still have to do so, through no fault of their own -- and are still

:17:09. > :17:18.in a position where they still have to do so. A point was made to me and

:17:19. > :17:24.I believe it was well made, and I repeat it as such. Government

:17:25. > :17:31.insured no savers lost out because of the banking crisis, others have

:17:32. > :17:41.referred to it. ?133 billion was found to support the banks. 76

:17:42. > :17:50.billion is still to be re-cooed. -- re-coop. It has been suggested that

:17:51. > :17:56.annual losses in billions are continuing year after year.

:17:57. > :18:02.Equitable Life savers, who did the right thing in saving for their

:18:03. > :18:15.retirement, should have -- should not have too pay for the banks. We

:18:16. > :18:21.look to the special treatment. I think it is an equal importance for

:18:22. > :18:24.those equitable life policy holders, ever mindful that government has

:18:25. > :18:33.made a substantial contribution to that. Others who followed have said

:18:34. > :18:40.we need to do that just a bit extra. I conclude with these comments. The

:18:41. > :18:47.facts are 2.6 billion of relative losses should be paid to the 885,000

:18:48. > :18:52.Equitable Life victims who are still 70% short of what they are due. A

:18:53. > :19:00.substantial amount of money for them. The pre-1982 with annuitants

:19:01. > :19:05.to be treated the same. Equitable Life policyholders are justified in

:19:06. > :19:11.their grievance. We in this House have been tasked with the job as

:19:12. > :19:16.their representatives at Westminster to put their case. I believe they

:19:17. > :19:21.are justified in pursuing their full compensation. This is the reason for

:19:22. > :19:25.the debate today and this is the reason I am standing with those

:19:26. > :19:32.victims alongside my other friends in this chamber from across the

:19:33. > :19:36.whole of the UK. Altogether we are asking for justice for the Equitable

:19:37. > :19:40.Life victims and by masking government pledge to simply do the

:19:41. > :19:47.right thing by these pensioners. -- asking the government. At times in

:19:48. > :19:51.this debate it seemed like a meeting of old lags. Some of us have been

:19:52. > :19:59.debating this issue for so many years. I'd like to say, like many

:20:00. > :20:04.others, I had lots and lots of people coming to me about Equitable

:20:05. > :20:09.Life. I don't, I used to have, but unfortunately time has done its work

:20:10. > :20:12.and there are now few left. People at my constituent Gertrude who is an

:20:13. > :20:16.elderly lady who thought she had made the right choice and had a

:20:17. > :20:19.decent standard of life in retirement, but is now living off

:20:20. > :20:25.25% of what she thought she would get. That is very difficult.

:20:26. > :20:28.Throughout the country, my friend from Edinburgh North and Leith who

:20:29. > :20:34.unfortunately, the head today told me of her constituent in the same

:20:35. > :20:38.situation. Elderly people who made the right decision and found they

:20:39. > :20:41.had lost out. The motion before us today notes that government have

:20:42. > :20:45.made no further funding available in the spring budget. Several other

:20:46. > :20:50.members have already mentioned that this is very similar to the

:20:51. > :20:54.situation with the Waspi women. One is about retirement age, one is

:20:55. > :20:59.about the amount from private pensions. But as others have

:21:00. > :21:07.mentioned, it brings to the same source. There is an increasing

:21:08. > :21:10.disbelief amongst the population but it's worthwhile savings pensions.

:21:11. > :21:17.That will cause huge difficulties in the future. If you speak to young

:21:18. > :21:21.people today, they will say, what's the point? Look at what has happened

:21:22. > :21:25.to others, my granny, look at what is likely to happen to me. When you

:21:26. > :21:29.get reports like today saying the pension age is likely to go up yet

:21:30. > :21:34.again and young people may now be working into their 70s before they

:21:35. > :21:40.get a pension, that is continuing to undermine confidence. We are looking

:21:41. > :21:46.at a huge problem in the future if we continue to do this. I do

:21:47. > :21:50.acknowledge, I was here when we tried to persuade the last Labour

:21:51. > :21:53.government to do something, and they turned their face against and

:21:54. > :21:57.refused to do anything. I acknowledge the coalition government

:21:58. > :22:01.and this government have grasped the Thistle to some extent, and have

:22:02. > :22:06.made some money available. They must be given credit for that. Of course,

:22:07. > :22:13.it took a report from the ombudsman to get the ball rolling for

:22:14. > :22:18.compensation. She concluded that the state of the public finances were

:22:19. > :22:23.irrelevant consideration. I suppose that's why we are still here today.

:22:24. > :22:26.Also, part of the difficulty I think is there is a very huge difference

:22:27. > :22:31.between the amount sought by the action group and that which the

:22:32. > :22:36.government says was actually lost. There's no real agreement as to what

:22:37. > :22:41.the total losses are. In a sense, unless the government came down with

:22:42. > :22:48.a figure of 1.5 billion, and again they were citing the case of the

:22:49. > :22:54.public finances. It's somewhat disappointing to see his letter to

:22:55. > :22:58.the honourable members the Harrow East, the minister states, the

:22:59. > :23:01.announcement was clear that the funding available to the payment

:23:02. > :23:07.scheme was not a fixed amount of 1.5 billion but rather that up to 1.5

:23:08. > :23:11.billion would be made available. Do I take that as confirmation the

:23:12. > :23:15.government have no intention of even putting the remainder of that

:23:16. > :23:23.amount, I understand about 140 million, towards the plight of those

:23:24. > :23:27.who have lost out? That seems to me to be rather small-minded and mean,

:23:28. > :23:30.and undermines the government's commitments they have shown

:23:31. > :23:36.previously to try and tackle this matter. He might argue the pension

:23:37. > :23:40.savings, carefully accumulated, should be safeguarded in the same

:23:41. > :23:45.way as funds deposited in banks and building societies, and they have a

:23:46. > :23:49.point although they shouldn't stretch it too far, because there is

:23:50. > :23:53.a limit on that. It is worth recording in the response to the

:23:54. > :23:57.government's original scheme the ombudsman stated, I'm unable to

:23:58. > :23:59.conclude the government's proposal to comply with the recommendation of

:24:00. > :24:05.the establishment of compensation scheme which I made in my report,

:24:06. > :24:11.these are things which will go on until the government does do

:24:12. > :24:20.something to address this sense of injustice which continues. Equitable

:24:21. > :24:24.Life was touted as a long-established steady company and

:24:25. > :24:27.people were encouraged, small business people, the self-employed,

:24:28. > :24:31.were encouraged to invest their pension savings in it. I remember

:24:32. > :24:38.when I was a practising solicitor many years ago, that Equitable Life

:24:39. > :24:41.was considered one of the best investments. That encouraged so many

:24:42. > :24:55.people to go in it. increasingly, as we are urged to

:24:56. > :24:59.invest, I think we will find it difficult now to have the same look

:25:00. > :25:07.at any pension company whilst this issue is still unresolved. It is

:25:08. > :25:11.also clear less than half of new pensioners will receive the single

:25:12. > :25:16.tier pension when it is introduced and therefore the issue is more

:25:17. > :25:20.important. Pensioners now have greater freedom to access pension

:25:21. > :25:26.savings, which will alter the pension landscape and the attitude

:25:27. > :25:36.of savers. It may make it more difficult for companies's investment

:25:37. > :25:40.strategies. That there is confidence and stability in pension investment.

:25:41. > :25:45.It is not the same as putting money in a bank or building society. It

:25:46. > :25:51.depends on the market, the type of investments made, we know.

:25:52. > :25:59.Honourable members making powerful points. He has spoken in terms of

:26:00. > :26:02.confidence. Would he agree there is a danger that having had members of

:26:03. > :26:10.the public investing in what was seen to be a secure and safe scheme,

:26:11. > :26:16.very much with the intention of doing the right thing, that this can

:26:17. > :26:21.set a precedent where members of the public may feel investing in

:26:22. > :26:27.pensions is not something that will give them safety in retirement?

:26:28. > :26:31.Further that the unfairness that gives is something that is unhelpful

:26:32. > :26:39.in terms of the pension industry as a whole? It is. That is the basis of

:26:40. > :26:48.the point I was making. I have children in their 20s and you speak

:26:49. > :26:52.to them about pensions. Some of us are getting to the age where we

:26:53. > :26:58.begin to think seriously about what our pensions will bring us. When you

:26:59. > :27:04.are in your 20s or 30s, you are looking at a long-term investment.

:27:05. > :27:09.People looking today at the Waspi women, the Equitable Life

:27:10. > :27:13.pensioners, do not have the same confidence people of my generation

:27:14. > :27:19.may have had, that we were putting aside to augment a state pension.

:27:20. > :27:24.The state pension is changing, we are looking at different ways in

:27:25. > :27:28.which people will invest, like auto enrolment. These things require

:27:29. > :27:33.confidence and that has been undermined because of the continuing

:27:34. > :27:37.scandals like Equitable Life. I think the government has to look at

:27:38. > :27:43.the bigger picture, not just at Equitable Life in isolation, but

:27:44. > :27:48.about how we manage to get over this hump, to make sure all young people

:27:49. > :27:55.do make a provision for the future. If we don't, it is a much bigger

:27:56. > :27:58.problem coming over the horizon when these young people get older. When

:27:59. > :28:02.we find they have not made the provision because they did not have

:28:03. > :28:08.the confidence. What will we do then? They will -- there will not be

:28:09. > :28:12.the fullbacks there are perhaps today. I urge the minister to go

:28:13. > :28:16.back to the Chancellor and say, look, look at the bigger picture,

:28:17. > :28:20.look how we are dealing with pensions. How do we get confidence?

:28:21. > :28:30.If we don't, the picture will be worse later.

:28:31. > :28:34.1.I should have mentioned, there is a recognition that for many

:28:35. > :28:40.pensioners and parents, we need to make provision for our children

:28:41. > :28:46.financially. We are using some of the money we have to make it happen.

:28:47. > :28:49.Some Equitable Life holders have said they have not been able to do

:28:50. > :28:55.that. Has he come upon that honour as well? I have a daughter on her

:28:56. > :29:00.third university degree and I know what he is talking about. Parents

:29:01. > :29:09.are having to use their own money in some cases for their children as

:29:10. > :29:13.they are now, and that cuts down on what might be available for them in

:29:14. > :29:18.the future. That is a decision they have to make and a slightly

:29:19. > :29:21.different issue because parents made their provision perhaps, getting to

:29:22. > :29:27.the stage where the it will come home. What is a big issue is the

:29:28. > :29:34.future. Many young people today are not earning money, they are being

:29:35. > :29:39.landed in some cases with large debts due to the university degrees.

:29:40. > :29:44.That will impact on their ability to save for pensions. Let alone the

:29:45. > :29:54.lack of confidence. I have gone on long enough so I will end at that

:29:55. > :29:58.point. Can I associate myself with all the

:29:59. > :30:03.comments made by members of earlier about the dreadful events that

:30:04. > :30:08.occurred yesterday and send my condolences to all the families of

:30:09. > :30:16.those who died and a speedy recovery to those who were injured?

:30:17. > :30:21.It has been an incredibly thoughtful and considered debate from all

:30:22. > :30:27.sides. I would like to thank the honourable member for Harrow East

:30:28. > :30:31.for bringing this before us. I know he has given huge amounts of time

:30:32. > :30:35.and commitment to this over the years and he has been incredibly

:30:36. > :30:42.dogged along with my honourable friend the member for north-east. I

:30:43. > :30:48.would like to thank him for that. I think you set out the situation

:30:49. > :30:51.clearly and words were thrown in from interventions about it being a

:30:52. > :30:59.scandal, about a matter of confidence. I think they sum up the

:31:00. > :31:03.issue for many people. I would like to thank him for setting out the

:31:04. > :31:09.landscape today. I would like to thank my honourable friend the

:31:10. > :31:17.member for Leeds North East, who talked about it being a moral duty

:31:18. > :31:21.to compensate. Those many hundreds of thousands of people in effect who

:31:22. > :31:25.have worked on this over the years, and they talked about it being a

:31:26. > :31:32.moral issue and question of the trust in the state. That resonates

:31:33. > :31:37.with many of us. The honourable member for Bromley and Chislehurst

:31:38. > :31:47.who indicated savers were told to save, encouraged to save and that

:31:48. > :31:52.was the right thing to do and they cannot be dis benefited by that. He

:31:53. > :31:58.talked about regulation and I will come onto that later and about alarm

:31:59. > :32:01.bells ringing. He indicated the government providing resource would

:32:02. > :32:08.be a gesture of confidence to the public. The member for Edinburgh

:32:09. > :32:14.South West also raised the issue about failures of the system. He

:32:15. > :32:25.said it was a continuation of unfairness and gave movingly in a

:32:26. > :32:29.number of ways, her constituents' experience and talked about the

:32:30. > :32:33.trust and bond people must have in the system. The honourable member

:32:34. > :32:42.for Stafford talked about equity and I think he in no way meant equity

:32:43. > :32:47.with a big E is as well. He talked about regulation should not only be

:32:48. > :32:51.carried out but should be seen to be carried out and talked about

:32:52. > :32:57.confidence and trust in the system and the issue of long-term security

:32:58. > :33:01.through confidence in the regulatory process and introduced...

:33:02. > :33:06.I will. It is alleged when Gordon Brown was put under pressure by

:33:07. > :33:11.members of his party in the early 2000s to make compensation, he

:33:12. > :33:15.retorted that, these aren't our people. Whether that is true or not,

:33:16. > :33:24.he will accept they are very much his people as ours as well? These

:33:25. > :33:28.people are all our people, basically. My honourable friend the

:33:29. > :33:34.member for Ellesmere Port and Neston talked about the issue of

:33:35. > :33:39.cross-party support in working on this and the appropriate action the

:33:40. > :33:44.government in his view needs to take and said policyholders remain

:33:45. > :33:48.short-changed. He talked about the issue for the restoration of

:33:49. > :33:54.confidence and trust in the system and referred to Waspi. That erosion

:33:55. > :34:00.of confidence he says may cost more in the long run and justice denied

:34:01. > :34:04.and delayed is justice denied. The honourable member for East

:34:05. > :34:09.Renfrewshire, referring to her constituents, now elderly and in

:34:10. > :34:16.distress. Talked about failed and toothless regulatory system and it

:34:17. > :34:20.is a saga that cannot continue. And Mr Shannon talking about his

:34:21. > :34:26.constituency, looking to the minister for solutions and saying

:34:27. > :34:30.those people are justified in pursuance of compensation.

:34:31. > :34:34.I thank the honourable gentleman who is making a characteristically

:34:35. > :34:42.erudite speech. Does he agree with me and possibly the honourable

:34:43. > :34:48.member for Angus that on the other end of the spectrum it is important

:34:49. > :34:51.to redouble efforts, there is an imperative of financial education

:34:52. > :34:59.for young people so they understand the benefits of securing a long-term

:35:00. > :35:01.pension income? I think that is an excellent point. I would expect no

:35:02. > :35:08.less from the honourable member with such a suggestion. If they do that,

:35:09. > :35:13.people have to be assured of confidence in the system. It is a

:35:14. > :35:19.very important point. I think the minister has heard the views of many

:35:20. > :35:26.across the chamber. From our side, we are not going to make party

:35:27. > :35:29.political points, no cheap party political points on this matter and

:35:30. > :35:34.credit where credit is due to the coalition in terms of setting aside

:35:35. > :35:41.1.5 billion in a compensation fund for those who had invested in the

:35:42. > :35:49.Equitable Life assurance Society. Most of which was invested in

:35:50. > :35:57.pensions, and the Chancellor, former Chancellor, the scheme was closed by

:35:58. > :36:07.2014 but he extended it with the scheme closed by midyear, last year.

:36:08. > :36:15.I know the Emag group, who represent pensioners, the policyholders, in

:36:16. > :36:19.February 2016, continue to call for the additional compensation, arguing

:36:20. > :36:27.that is the shortfall in the figure. Many members have made that point

:36:28. > :36:30.today. I know the government in the manifesto said making fair payments

:36:31. > :36:38.to policyholders, and of course the debate goes on about what that

:36:39. > :36:46.amount should be. It is generally accepted a ?4 billion is around

:36:47. > :36:52.about the figure concerned. I know that the then minister indicated

:36:53. > :36:56.improvements made since 2010 are welcomed and show the government's

:36:57. > :37:00.long-term plan is working but the plan is not complete and we have

:37:01. > :37:05.some way to go to fully restore public finances. I think the

:37:06. > :37:11.minister will note that. The Chadwick report in 2010 concludes

:37:12. > :37:16.that relative loss should be defined as those who have suffered financial

:37:17. > :37:21.loss and the report pointed out the ombudsman recognise the loss in

:37:22. > :37:26.policy where only partly due to maladministration, the backdrop to

:37:27. > :37:30.cuts in policy values was a sharp fall in stock markets that all

:37:31. > :37:33.insurers companies were forced to respond to and the inquiry argued

:37:34. > :37:39.compensation should be assessed on the cost of maladministration as

:37:40. > :37:43.opposed to investor losses but we are politicians and we can make

:37:44. > :37:48.decisions and different choices than that. The minister today has been

:37:49. > :37:54.asked to give careful consideration, do we wish to make different

:37:55. > :38:01.decisions and choices? It comes to an important point I wanted to

:38:02. > :38:05.raise. It has been pushed time and again and that is the question of

:38:06. > :38:11.regulatory failure. There has been a consensus among parties that

:38:12. > :38:13.compensation should have been paid out by the government for

:38:14. > :38:22.maladministration and has to a degree. But of course, that issue of

:38:23. > :38:25.regulatory failure, we are not sure whether regulatory failure continues

:38:26. > :38:30.to exist, and so we have to push down and make sure the regulatory

:38:31. > :38:38.frameworks we operate in this country are tested time and again

:38:39. > :38:42.and are reviewed time and again. And of course appropriate resource has

:38:43. > :38:49.to go to organisations who regulate to ensure that proper regulation

:38:50. > :39:00.occurs. There are 200 insurers companies with about 150 looking at

:39:01. > :39:03.them. That is something we have to consider. I am not saying there

:39:04. > :39:07.should be more staff but we should take into account resources of

:39:08. > :39:12.regulatory authorities. The scandal is not related to one particular

:39:13. > :39:16.government. It was ignored by regulators in the 80s, as members

:39:17. > :39:21.have said today. It is all the more important that with the knowledge

:39:22. > :39:28.the regulatory system did not operate, that we continue to check

:39:29. > :39:33.and check again. As was said in the second ombudsman report, the central

:39:34. > :39:39.story of this report is that this robust system of financial

:39:40. > :39:43.regulation was not in respect of the Society implemented appropriately.

:39:44. > :39:48.This is consistently, fairly and with proper regard to the interests

:39:49. > :39:52.of those affected by the Prudential regulators and those providing

:39:53. > :39:58.assistance and advice on those regulators. I think that is

:39:59. > :40:03.salutary. We have had scandals in the past and we have to keep a

:40:04. > :40:11.lookout for these. Pips, the endowment scandal from the 80s, a

:40:12. > :40:16.concern growing about the sale of leasehold in relation to view

:40:17. > :40:20.properties. Let's not go down the path of that being a scandal, even

:40:21. > :40:24.airlines not paying compensation for delays.

:40:25. > :40:32.It's important we always keep a lookout in relation to the

:40:33. > :40:38.regulatory system. I want to begin to conclude, if I made, by pushing

:40:39. > :40:43.the question about confidence in the system and the regulatory system,

:40:44. > :40:51.and ask in addition to that what efforts the government continues to

:40:52. > :40:56.make to trace policyholders. Can we have a bit of an update in relation

:40:57. > :41:01.to those people who have received compensation from the 1.5 billion

:41:02. > :41:04.and how many policyholders does the Minister estimates are still

:41:05. > :41:09.affected? I know this is a moving feast. And the broader steps the

:41:10. > :41:20.Treasury needs to make to restore faith in the regulatory system. To

:41:21. > :41:25.summarise, may be legally the government are not required to pay

:41:26. > :41:28.the compensation, but many people today have pushed the question for

:41:29. > :41:36.the moral imperative. That's a matter of the government going to

:41:37. > :41:47.have to consider. Today, and in the coming months and years. Minister.

:41:48. > :41:51.Mr Simon Kirby. Madam Deputy Speaker, can I start by associating

:41:52. > :42:00.myself with the comments made earlier about yesterday's terrible

:42:01. > :42:04.events. Madam Deputy Speaker, can I congratulate honourable members the

:42:05. > :42:09.Harrow East and Leeds North East visit during this important debate.

:42:10. > :42:15.I think it's fair to say that their tireless work on this issue and the

:42:16. > :42:20.involvement with the all-party Parliamentary Group on Equitable

:42:21. > :42:24.Life is of great importance to many of our constituents up and down the

:42:25. > :42:29.country. Honourable members from across the House have done a great

:42:30. > :42:34.deal for their constituents on this matter, and it has been a very

:42:35. > :42:40.thoughtful debate, and I've listened very carefully to the individual

:42:41. > :42:44.cases spoken about. I am grateful also have the opportunity to set out

:42:45. > :42:51.what this government has done to tackle this long-standing issue.

:42:52. > :42:55.Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a long and well-documented history on

:42:56. > :43:01.this topic which I do not propose to go over in the limited time I have.

:43:02. > :43:06.Instead, I want to focus on the action we have taken to make

:43:07. > :43:13.payments to the people affected. These figures are well known. The

:43:14. > :43:19.ombudsman's findings assess the loss from government maladministration to

:43:20. > :43:23.be ?4.1 billion. It's worth noting that this was significantly more

:43:24. > :43:31.than the evaluation commission by the then Labour government, and this

:43:32. > :43:36.report rejected some of the ombudsman's findings and concluded

:43:37. > :43:42.that only ?340 million should be paid to policyholders. This

:43:43. > :43:48.government, in contrast, and despite the constraints facing the public

:43:49. > :43:51.purse, agreed that ?1.5 billion would be made available, tax-free,

:43:52. > :43:57.for payments to eligible policyholders. We consulted

:43:58. > :44:06.carefully on how this ?1.5 billion should be paid out and reach the

:44:07. > :44:12.conclusion that we must pay those policyholders. As a result, this

:44:13. > :44:18.group will receive an annual payment for life with a total cost of these

:44:19. > :44:25.payments are assessed to be around ?625 million. The ?100 million

:44:26. > :44:29.contingency fund that is often referred to is to ensure that there

:44:30. > :44:39.is a provision for policyholders exceeding the life expectancy cost.

:44:40. > :44:43.The remaining, ?775 million of available funding, on the advice of

:44:44. > :44:48.an independent commission, was distributed pro rata to other

:44:49. > :44:53.policyholders, representing a payment of around 22.4% of their

:44:54. > :44:59.relative loss. I recognise that for many, this was disappointing. But it

:45:00. > :45:03.is about striking the right balance that also took into account the

:45:04. > :45:09.position of the public finances and fairness to all taxpayers. This

:45:10. > :45:14.point of affordability was one that the ombudsman raised explicitly in

:45:15. > :45:18.her report, where she stated it was appropriate to take the impact of

:45:19. > :45:23.the public purse into account when considering the funding of the

:45:24. > :45:26.payments. Indeed, the ombudsman has written to the all-party

:45:27. > :45:32.Parliamentary Group on this issue of the level of funding, and said that

:45:33. > :45:38.the government's decisions on affordability cannot be said to be

:45:39. > :45:42.incompatible with her report. I also understand that suggestions have

:45:43. > :45:45.been made that as the economy improves, further funding should be

:45:46. > :45:56.made available to the payment scheme. I accept that that decision

:45:57. > :46:00.isn't incompatible with the ombudsman report. But to say it is

:46:01. > :46:07.not incompatible with something as not to say that it follows the

:46:08. > :46:12.spirit of it or that it is right. It does raise the point but I would say

:46:13. > :46:15.to him and repeated again, this is about striking the right balance

:46:16. > :46:21.that took into account the position of the public finances, and fairness

:46:22. > :46:30.to all taxpayers. I will cover this point in more detail as I proceed. I

:46:31. > :46:36.was talking about further funding being made available for the scheme.

:46:37. > :46:43.But with debt at its highest level since the Second World War, tackling

:46:44. > :46:47.the deficit and getting debt falling will be challenges that call for

:46:48. > :46:52.long-term discipline. That is why we have never plans to reopen the

:46:53. > :47:00.payment scheme or to review the level of funding for the scheme. I

:47:01. > :47:04.thank the Minister because I realise time is short. When I made my

:47:05. > :47:12.contribution earlier I made the point about the ?50,000 maximum

:47:13. > :47:18.compensation for other collapsed banks in 2008 did receive up to

:47:19. > :47:22.?50,000. Given that most of the funds in Equitable were around

:47:23. > :47:33.45,000 of investment, would he not consider looking at those particular

:47:34. > :47:40.individuals who suffered most? I was going to cover the issue. There is a

:47:41. > :47:46.big difference between the two, and these were payment is different from

:47:47. > :47:50.the scheme in that the government expected, and did recover all the

:47:51. > :47:58.money paid to UK depositors, as the banks themselves were wound up, it's

:47:59. > :48:03.not fair to compare the two. I'll move on to addressing some of the

:48:04. > :48:10.specific issues that were raised. The honourable member for Harrow

:48:11. > :48:13.East said that the payments were not transparent. I'd have to say that

:48:14. > :48:17.transparency is one of the core principles of the scheme. The

:48:18. > :48:24.methodology of the calculations published in full, along with

:48:25. > :48:30.simplified explanation for the layperson. I'm also aware HMT have

:48:31. > :48:40.met to discuss this and have found no errors. He asked sensibly wide

:48:41. > :48:45.the government can't commit to paying Equitable Life policyholders

:48:46. > :48:50.in full, when the economy is fully recovered and the debt is shrinking.

:48:51. > :48:55.I would say that it is right that the government balances the needs of

:48:56. > :48:58.affecting policyholders against those of taxpayers and the users of

:48:59. > :49:03.public services more generally, at a time when the government has to

:49:04. > :49:10.tackle a debt of nearly ?1.7 trillion, that's almost ?62,000 for

:49:11. > :49:21.every household in this country. I think that's quite a salient point.

:49:22. > :49:26.He also mentioned the cost of paying the pre-1992 annuitants is less than

:49:27. > :49:32.?100 million. I have to tell him no assessment has been made of these

:49:33. > :49:41.pre-92 losses. The government did recognise the hardship of this group

:49:42. > :49:47.and paid up to ?10,000 as a lump sum at a cost of around ?50 million.

:49:48. > :49:55.This was new money over and above the original ?1.5 billion. A number

:49:56. > :50:00.of honourable members, including the honourable member for brutal raised

:50:01. > :50:12.the failure of regulation and standing behind any failure in

:50:13. > :50:15.financial services group. This government and the coalition

:50:16. > :50:21.government before it have fundamentally performed financial

:50:22. > :50:25.regulation, including and importantly, expanding the scope of

:50:26. > :50:36.the financial services compensation scheme. The member for Leeds North

:50:37. > :50:44.East said it was unfair that we excluded pre-92 policyholders. I

:50:45. > :50:48.have every sympathy with the position of pre-92 policyholders and

:50:49. > :50:53.the position they find themselves in during their retirement. However,

:50:54. > :50:58.these policies commenced before any maladministration could have

:50:59. > :51:02.affected investment decisions and pre-92 policyholders have instead

:51:03. > :51:09.been affected by falling comparative annuity rates in light of the issues

:51:10. > :51:16.that Equitable Life. I have referred to the payments of 5000, or 10,000,

:51:17. > :51:23.if those are in receipt of pension credit, that was made in December

:51:24. > :51:28.2013. The honourable member for Edinburgh Southeast said, I think

:51:29. > :51:31.it's a point that may have been raised before, that the government

:51:32. > :51:37.hasn't done enough. I do sympathise with the plight of the honourable

:51:38. > :51:41.members constituents and I'm also glad that she recognises the

:51:42. > :51:48.coalition government did more than any that preceded it to address this

:51:49. > :51:51.issue. She asked me about the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the

:51:52. > :51:56.Chancellor has been very clear in his spring budget that the scheme

:51:57. > :52:01.has closed and there is no more money forthcoming. The honourable

:52:02. > :52:08.member, my honourable friend from Stafford made points about

:52:09. > :52:14.regulation. He made these points adequately and I do agree that trust

:52:15. > :52:18.is vital, and I am proud of the reforms made to the regulatory

:52:19. > :52:23.system. Many people say we have too many regulations, I always think

:52:24. > :52:26.financial services are there for everyone and it's important we

:52:27. > :52:33.provide an appropriate level of protection for everyone, big or

:52:34. > :52:42.small. The honourable member for Elsner port and Neston suggested

:52:43. > :52:47.that the government had ignored the ombudsman's recommendations. I have

:52:48. > :52:52.to say the ombudsman report was the foundation of the payment scheme.

:52:53. > :52:59.The ombudsman has written to the all-party group and whether we agree

:53:00. > :53:04.with the expression incompatible or not, said the government's decisions

:53:05. > :53:13.on affordability cannot be said to be incompatible with her report. He

:53:14. > :53:21.also mentioned that 2010 manifesto, it's worth saying that payments were

:53:22. > :53:23.fair to both the taxpayer and the policyholders with the most

:53:24. > :53:34.vulnerable groups receiving 100% of their losses, and the scheme is

:53:35. > :53:37.based on the ombudsman's report. I hate to interrupt his flow but I

:53:38. > :53:40.want to take him back to an intervention I made on my honourable

:53:41. > :53:47.friend the member for Harrow East about the regulator to identify

:53:48. > :53:53.problems. In his response to me, he said that the Treasury itself was

:53:54. > :53:59.aware of the problems of Equitable Life long before they actually

:54:00. > :54:04.emerged. Does he know if that is true?

:54:05. > :54:09.It is fair to say there were a lot of issues and things that were done

:54:10. > :54:13.that we would do differently today. These were taken into account, in

:54:14. > :54:19.the vast number of reports and inquiries, and are represented in

:54:20. > :54:28.what is a fair and equitable scheme for payments. I will move very

:54:29. > :54:31.quickly. Connacht was mentioned by the Honourable Member. I will be

:54:32. > :54:36.meeting in the near future to discuss that issue. If she would

:54:37. > :54:42.like to come I am pleased to meet with her to discuss it. It is

:54:43. > :54:46.currently being investigated by the FCA. The Honourable Member for

:54:47. > :54:50.Strangford, can I thank him for his understanding? He made a very

:54:51. > :54:52.thoughtful contribution. He mentioned children. I would say to

:54:53. > :54:58.him, we have to be careful to strike the right balance, that we do not

:54:59. > :55:00.saddle our children and grandchildren with unfair levels of

:55:01. > :55:09.debt. It is about making sure those people affected receive a fair

:55:10. > :55:16.amount. The Honourable Member for Angus set out cases where

:55:17. > :55:20.constituents have a reduced annuity in their retirement. I do have a

:55:21. > :55:24.great deal of sympathy for the difficulties reduced income in

:55:25. > :55:34.retirement causes. The Government recognises this. That is why Nu they

:55:35. > :55:42.should receive 100% of their loss. The Government have paid out today

:55:43. > :55:47.1.12 billion. We will pay out another 55 million, leaving a

:55:48. > :55:53.balance, for those that can add up, of 25 million. We do intend to

:55:54. > :55:57.provide a safety net to make sure that the payments to the most

:55:58. > :56:04.vulnerable are maintained. Let's hope they all live longer. As such,

:56:05. > :56:11.I don't recognise the 140 million figure. In conclusion, Madam Deputy

:56:12. > :56:13.Speaker, I appreciate that some policyholders, that have carefully

:56:14. > :56:18.invested for their retirement, are now not receiving the income they

:56:19. > :56:19.expected. We have done more than any other Government to resolve the

:56:20. > :56:25.government backed REPORTER: Part in the Equitable Life

:56:26. > :56:32.issue. We have paid out 1.2 billion and we have supported the

:56:33. > :56:45.policyholders left most vulnerable. I thank my honourable friend in

:56:46. > :56:49.terms of his response to the debate. We have had a very good debate with

:56:50. > :56:53.representatives and interventions from no less than five political

:56:54. > :56:57.parties represented in the house. Everybody has spoken with the same

:56:58. > :57:03.voice. This is a debt of honour that we owe to vulnerable people across

:57:04. > :57:10.this country. We will not allow this matter to rest until such time as

:57:11. > :57:12.those vulnerable people are properly compensated for their losses, which

:57:13. > :57:16.happened through no fault of theirs. I thank the honourable members that

:57:17. > :57:21.have taken part in this debate. It is good to see some fresh voices in

:57:22. > :57:26.this debate, as well as those that have been campaigning for many

:57:27. > :57:29.years. Can I just say to my honourable friend on the front

:57:30. > :57:36.bench, I was disappointed that we did not get a mention in the Budget,

:57:37. > :57:39.but there are many opportunities to come, the autumn budget and further

:57:40. > :57:45.such budgets. It is not fair to say that the scheme is closed. The

:57:46. > :57:48.scheme is closed to new applicants. We know that the scheme will

:57:49. > :57:53.continue paying out for as long as those receiving compensation live.

:57:54. > :57:56.It is absolutely open to the Government to top up the

:57:57. > :58:00.compensation scheme so that everybody who suffered losses would

:58:01. > :58:09.receive their proper payment. For those pre-92, he trapped annuitants,

:58:10. > :58:16.if they received that, they would use that money in the economy, and

:58:17. > :58:19.it would boost the economy for hard-pressed retailers. There would

:58:20. > :58:22.be a double benefit to the Treasury. All I would ask my honourable friend

:58:23. > :58:27.from the front bench is to go back and have a word with my right

:58:28. > :58:33.honourable friend the Chancellor and leisure see if we can do justice to

:58:34. > :58:42.Equitable Life policyholders. The question is as on the order paper.

:58:43. > :58:48.As many of that opinion, say aye. The contrary, no? The ayes have it.

:58:49. > :58:59.We now come to the backbench debate on the Social Mobility Commission

:59:00. > :59:03.State Of The Nation Report. Lucy Powell? I beg to move the motion on

:59:04. > :59:09.the Social Mobility Commission Annual State Of The Nation Report,

:59:10. > :59:11.in my name and the name of the right honourable members for Loughborough

:59:12. > :59:16.and Sheffield Hallam. Can I start by putting on the record my thoughts

:59:17. > :59:21.for the victims of the terror attack yesterday, and for the dedication,

:59:22. > :59:24.bravery and service of all of our emergency services and, in

:59:25. > :59:32.particular, the staff that looked after us so well yesterday. We are

:59:33. > :59:37.meeting today, and that shows we can carry on today without democracy and

:59:38. > :59:41.debates in these times. We can also show that we come together in this

:59:42. > :59:46.house very often, as we are doing today, in the spirit of this

:59:47. > :59:50.important debate on social mobility. This debate, with members on all

:59:51. > :59:53.sides joining together to champion social mobility, is welcome and

:59:54. > :59:56.timely. I have been delighted to work closely with the right

:59:57. > :00:01.honourable members for Loughborough and Sheffield Hallam over recent

:00:02. > :00:05.weeks, and it is our hope and intention to continue this work

:00:06. > :00:09.beyond today, to truly build a cross-party consensus for a strategy

:00:10. > :00:14.for tackling social mobility. Can I also thank the government's Social

:00:15. > :00:18.Mobility Commission for all of their important work. As the commission

:00:19. > :00:21.has consistently warned, by all measures, social mobility is getting

:00:22. > :00:25.worse, not better. They recently said that low levels of social

:00:26. > :00:31.mobility are impending the progress of many in our society, not just the

:00:32. > :00:35.poorest. That is the context for this debate today. To start with, we

:00:36. > :00:39.do need a better understanding about what we mean by increasing social

:00:40. > :00:43.mobility in the modern economy. Too often, social mobility is thought of

:00:44. > :00:46.in terms of plucking one or two mobility once out of disadvantage

:00:47. > :00:53.and taking them to the top. The so-called Council house to the

:00:54. > :00:56.Cabinet journey. This understanding is really unhelpful when looking at

:00:57. > :01:00.the challenges and opportunities our country faces, and the strategy

:01:01. > :01:06.required to deal with them. In today's context, social mobility is

:01:07. > :01:08.about everyone being able to make economic and social progress, and

:01:09. > :01:16.confined by the disadvantages they begin with. With Brexit, automation,

:01:17. > :01:21.digitalisation and huge changes to work, this is going to get harder

:01:22. > :01:25.and evermore squeezed. No longer can this just be about those that go to

:01:26. > :01:31.university. Everyone needs to gain a rich and stretching education and

:01:32. > :01:36.the skills to succeed. Put it another way, if we look ahead to the

:01:37. > :01:43.News of the economy in, say, 2022, forecast by the Social Mobility

:01:44. > :01:48.Commission, there will be 9 million low skilled people chasing just 4

:01:49. > :01:51.million jobs. A shortfall of 3 million workers for the highest

:01:52. > :01:57.skilled jobs of the economy. That is before the effects of Brexit. The

:01:58. > :02:02.biggest barrier to dealing with this is what is known as the long tail of

:02:03. > :02:07.underachievement. At the same time, companies like Google say we are not

:02:08. > :02:09.producing enough of the right engineers, right engineering

:02:10. > :02:15.graduates for their company's growth. Britain has the third

:02:16. > :02:21.highest proportion of graduates in non-graduate jobs in Europe, with

:02:22. > :02:24.only Greece and Estonia behind us. It is no wonder that our

:02:25. > :02:32.productivity is so pure compared to other OECD countries. -- so poor. It

:02:33. > :02:36.takes a British worker five days to produce the same amount of work as a

:02:37. > :02:41.German worker can do in four days. That is the stark challenge that we

:02:42. > :02:46.face. So, any social mobility strategy must also be inextricably

:02:47. > :02:52.linked to our industrial strategy. These huge challenges require a new

:02:53. > :02:56.national mission, built on consensus and evidence, to turn them into real

:02:57. > :03:01.opportunities for the country. That is what we hope to address with this

:03:02. > :03:05.debate today and the work that we are doing. Let's be honest, while

:03:06. > :03:08.much progress has been made by successive governments, the

:03:09. > :03:15.political cycle means that every party is guilty of looking for a

:03:16. > :03:19.quick fix or new wheeze that might appeal to voters, rather than the

:03:20. > :03:22.most difficult job of a clear and determine strategy. Let's look at

:03:23. > :03:26.the evidence and stick to it, even at times it means giving praise to

:03:27. > :03:32.our opponents, which we will be doing today. We know from the Social

:03:33. > :03:38.Mobility Commission and others that when it comes to education some

:03:39. > :03:42.areas are absolutely key. I know others will pick up other areas in

:03:43. > :03:45.their speeches. First, the early years. This will not come as a

:03:46. > :03:50.surprise to those that know me well. This is a personal passion of mine.

:03:51. > :03:55.Let's look at the facts. By the age of five, children from disadvantaged

:03:56. > :04:01.backgrounds are already far behind their peers, with a developmental

:04:02. > :04:05.gap as much as 15 months between those from advantaged and

:04:06. > :04:08.disadvantaged backgrounds. One study found that children in low-income

:04:09. > :04:18.households here up to 30 million fewer words by the age of three than

:04:19. > :04:22.those in their better off peers. The biggest predictor of outcomes at

:04:23. > :04:28.GCSE is still the levels that are achieved by the time a child is

:04:29. > :04:31.five. So, what happens in the first few years of life is so massively

:04:32. > :04:37.critical, yet it still doesn't demand nearly enough government and

:04:38. > :04:41.policy attention. We have made some progress, we have made some progress

:04:42. > :04:44.by successive governments. The Labour government, through the

:04:45. > :04:48.extensional maternity leave, sure start centres, the integration and

:04:49. > :04:51.expansion of health visitors, which was continued by the Conservative

:04:52. > :04:55.Government as well, the introduction of quality, early education for

:04:56. > :05:00.three and four-year-olds, and the introduction of the two-year-old

:05:01. > :05:03.offer, much championed by my right honourable friend, the member for

:05:04. > :05:08.Sheffield Hallam. The beginnings of a real life chances strategy,

:05:09. > :05:11.developed by the right Honourable Member opposite. I do wonder that

:05:12. > :05:17.the recent focus has been on childcare alone and the demand of

:05:18. > :05:21.maternal employment rates, and less on the social mobility reasons for

:05:22. > :05:24.investing in the early years. A greater focus on what works, and is

:05:25. > :05:29.joined of working, doesn't actually need to cost more money. For

:05:30. > :05:34.example, if you look at Ofsted ratings, the quality and outcomes do

:05:35. > :05:39.not match. I found from looking at this recently that 91% of early

:05:40. > :05:45.years providers are rated good or outstanding, yet a third of their

:05:46. > :05:49.children are not leaving those schools ready. There are other ways

:05:50. > :05:52.we could incentivise quality providers to work with others in

:05:53. > :05:57.their locality, and not in competition. There could be more

:05:58. > :06:02.support for parents through regular contact and looking at assessment

:06:03. > :06:05.like the ages and stages requirements, and other things. We

:06:06. > :06:09.have interesting work on this that we have been doing in Manchester.

:06:10. > :06:13.Remarkably, in many parts of the country, we have some of the highest

:06:14. > :06:17.quality early years provision, in some of the most deprived

:06:18. > :06:20.communities. This is often what we think of as the silver Bullet in

:06:21. > :06:26.education, through our maintained nursery schools and some of the

:06:27. > :06:31.school nursery places attached to schools. Let's cherish those and not

:06:32. > :06:34.put them under threat. I think a proper focus on narrowing the gap

:06:35. > :06:41.before five would have a real impact on social mobility. Let's look now

:06:42. > :06:47.at slightly older children. By the age of 16, just one in three

:06:48. > :06:50.disadvantaged children gained five good GCSEs, including English and

:06:51. > :06:54.maths. This figure has remained stubborn over the last few years. In

:06:55. > :07:02.schools, we know what works and we have seen it happen. It was

:07:03. > :07:05.epitomised by the London Challenge. Leadership, collaboration,

:07:06. > :07:09.resources, attraction and retention of outstanding teachers, the

:07:10. > :07:13.development of Teach first, it all came together... Of course. On the

:07:14. > :07:19.point of the London Challenge, would she like to thank Lord Adonis for

:07:20. > :07:23.all of the work that he did in that, in all my time in the Labour

:07:24. > :07:27.government, I found him to be the most effective and passionate

:07:28. > :07:34.minister about improving schools. He has a truly brilliant record. I very

:07:35. > :07:38.much would like to thank Lord Adonis for all of his work, and the

:07:39. > :07:44.Honourable Member for Liverpool West Derby, who was a minister at the

:07:45. > :07:49.time of the London initiative. The London Challenge was one of those

:07:50. > :07:53.government initiatives that did achieve real difference and gave the

:07:54. > :07:57.biggest rise in attainment in an area that we have seen, I think. The

:07:58. > :08:02.opportunity areas that the right Honourable Member for Loughborough

:08:03. > :08:06.developed in her time in office are a good successor of these. But they

:08:07. > :08:10.do need to be matched by resources and the ability to attract and

:08:11. > :08:16.retain the best teachers. The Pupil Premium has been a remarkable

:08:17. > :08:19.development as well, and it has allowed those behind to begin to

:08:20. > :08:22.catch up through their time in school. Let's follow these learnings

:08:23. > :08:33.and not get distracted by things that don't work. Looking, then, at

:08:34. > :08:40.older people, by the age of 25, many of these children will be in low

:08:41. > :08:46.skilled, low paid jobs. Only one in ten low paid workers will ever

:08:47. > :08:50.escape low pay. That is a pretty terrible outcome for them and for

:08:51. > :08:55.our country. As I said, these jobs in themselves are actually

:08:56. > :08:59.disappearing now. Our skills strategy, post-16 and in work

:09:00. > :09:04.training, does need strengthening. I welcome the government's moves in

:09:05. > :09:06.this area. I think the T-Levels, the apprenticeship are bloody, the

:09:07. > :09:10.skills plan linked to the industrial plan and so on are all very much to

:09:11. > :09:16.be welcomed. -- the apprenticeship body. Even issues like the

:09:17. > :09:19.university technical colleges, while I have some criticisms of the way in

:09:20. > :09:23.which they are working, they are a good idea, but they do need more

:09:24. > :09:28.focus and work. But let's not implement some of these good

:09:29. > :09:31.initiatives badly and lose what we know works. For example, with the

:09:32. > :09:35.T-Levels, we need to make sure we continue to have that blended mix

:09:36. > :09:40.between technical and academic, which will be so important for the

:09:41. > :09:47.jobs of the future. For me, personally, if you look at all of

:09:48. > :09:50.our OECD country competitors, it is critical that children continue to

:09:51. > :09:57.do high levels of maths and English, write to the age of 18.

:09:58. > :10:05.These reforms need matching with other reforms, such as pathways out

:10:06. > :10:09.of university. I think the underperformance and under skilled

:10:10. > :10:12.jobs that many of our graduates are doing is something that

:10:13. > :10:16.fundamentally needs addressing. Access to the professions is key in

:10:17. > :10:22.this every and I know that other members will talk about that. These

:10:23. > :10:26.are just three of the key areas that can drive social mobility. The early

:10:27. > :10:35.years, what happens in school and post-16. We also know what doesn't

:10:36. > :10:43.work for social mobility. One of those is Grammar schools. Under the

:10:44. > :10:46.current Prime Minister, grammar schools seem to form the centre

:10:47. > :10:51.stage for her vision was dealing with social mobility. They are

:10:52. > :10:56.sucking up all of the oxygen in this debate. Yet the evidence is clear

:10:57. > :11:06.In fact, they make it work. -- they In fact, they make it work. -- they

:11:07. > :11:15.make it worse. Icons meant the ... We already have a selective system

:11:16. > :11:20.in Trafford. -- in Stratford. One group that owns benefit even in

:11:21. > :11:26.Trafford people's special educational needs. Only a tiny

:11:27. > :11:32.proportion of these children get into grammar schools. In part, that

:11:33. > :11:41.is believed because these schools don't have any incentive to take

:11:42. > :11:46.them. I absolutely agree with what she says. This is an issue on which

:11:47. > :11:51.she has campaigned for many years. She is absolutely right. In

:11:52. > :11:58.Trafford, while they do have many good as outstanding schools. I have

:11:59. > :12:02.seen data recently that the top-rated 5% of pupils and the

:12:03. > :12:10.bottom 25% of pupils in Trafford actually bolster worse than

:12:11. > :12:20.neighbouring Manchester. -- actually both do worse. There are issues

:12:21. > :12:27.about attainment gaps. The OECD says the countries with selective

:12:28. > :12:32.education perform less well than those with comrades and systems. The

:12:33. > :12:35.inspectors of schools to not agree inspectors of schools to not agree

:12:36. > :12:42.with more grammars. The Government's on social mobility system, the

:12:43. > :12:46.teaching unions, Marty Academy trust teaching unions, Marty Academy trust

:12:47. > :12:53.leaders and the headteachers and sadly our amongst those who have,

:12:54. > :13:05.out against selection. This is perhaps because these schools take

:13:06. > :13:14.tiny numbers of less well of pupils. 11% of students at six colleges are

:13:15. > :13:20.on a free school meals. Yet they perform so well. There needs to be

:13:21. > :13:24.more focus on these engines of social mobility than we have perhaps

:13:25. > :13:27.had recently. He's absolutely right to draw the attention to sixth form

:13:28. > :13:35.colleges and the data shows what great outcomes they deliver and for

:13:36. > :13:45.a comprehensive intake of pupils. Indeed, Essex from -- a sixth form

:13:46. > :13:49.College in my own county is one of the top in the country in terms of

:13:50. > :13:57.its outcomes. It's in the heart of inner-city Manchester. Your analysis

:13:58. > :14:03.by a team of academics shows that poor bright children are much less

:14:04. > :14:11.likely to attend grammar schools then well of children. London

:14:12. > :14:16.outperforms selective evidence and the national average in its top GCSE

:14:17. > :14:20.results. In contrast, the attainment gap is worse than the national

:14:21. > :14:26.average in eight out of nine of the fully selective areas, so the

:14:27. > :14:30.evidence is pretty overwhelming. The Government, and Rosie Minister when

:14:31. > :14:38.he rises that it will repeat this fact that she often repeats, which

:14:39. > :14:42.is that... There is always another one about modern foreign managers as

:14:43. > :14:49.well. When they are particularly keen on is that the children in

:14:50. > :14:53.grammar schools, the tiny number on free school meals, do better than

:14:54. > :14:57.all the other children on free school meals in the country, but

:14:58. > :15:04.what the Government felt it's in that context is that these children

:15:05. > :15:09.are already highly able by definition and the Government are

:15:10. > :15:13.not comparing like with like and is in fact highly able children do just

:15:14. > :15:18.as well in good and outstanding compared to schools as their

:15:19. > :15:22.counterparts in grammar schools. It's wrong in itself and my view

:15:23. > :15:27.when it comes to social mobility but it's also a huge distraction. Not

:15:28. > :15:36.only does the danger that I and the Social Mobility Commission and

:15:37. > :15:41.ensure I remember -- other members today... Not only would this agenda

:15:42. > :15:44.extremely busy, this Government has extremely busy, this Government has

:15:45. > :15:49.also embarked on other major also embarked on other major

:15:50. > :15:56.overhauls that he knew national fair funding formula, the biggest reform

:15:57. > :16:00.in a generation of GCSEs, needed to create hundreds of thousands of new

:16:01. > :16:07.school places, dealing with the massive increase in demand and less

:16:08. > :16:13.money and fewer teachers per pupil. The pursuit of more selection in

:16:14. > :16:23.grammars, which is so divisive, will require huge political capital and

:16:24. > :16:28.the attention of the -- officials. I don't think we would be here today

:16:29. > :16:32.having this debate about grammars and selection if we had done more

:16:33. > :16:38.over recent years to create this cross-party consensus around what

:16:39. > :16:43.needs to be done to tackle social mobility. That is our intention with

:16:44. > :16:51.this debate. To look at what does work and develop that understanding,

:16:52. > :16:58.build a broad consensus... Yes? In terms of consensus, if she was

:16:59. > :17:06.willing to understand more selective education, would a good place to

:17:07. > :17:10.focus on not be the heaviest question Mike I'm not sure if you

:17:11. > :17:15.are saying that he thinks that selection would work in those areas

:17:16. > :17:22.but I disagree. There's no evidence for at all. I look at some of the

:17:23. > :17:25.constituency. Mine has some of the constituency. Mine has some of the

:17:26. > :17:31.highest levels of deprivation in the country. -- fantastic schools. The

:17:32. > :17:38.second ranking in terms of child poverty in the whole country. I have

:17:39. > :17:43.amazing results in May combat of amazing results in May combat of

:17:44. > :17:48.that setting. I don't understand how selection would help them. It would

:17:49. > :17:59.just make the job more difficult. I was just saying that if it is to be

:18:00. > :18:02.the case, there will be increased opportunities for selective

:18:03. > :18:06.education, wouldn't the best place to focus that on a busy opportunity

:18:07. > :18:16.ever is highlighted by the commission? -- to focus that on the

:18:17. > :18:21.opportunity areas highlighted. Those opportunity areas, like the London

:18:22. > :18:26.challenge, work when you bring together and collaborate amongst

:18:27. > :18:31.schools not create an environment of competition, where you ensures that

:18:32. > :18:37.the best teachers are in those areas and strong collective leadership

:18:38. > :18:44.tackling those issues. Bringing into the ecosystem a selective agenda

:18:45. > :18:47.will actually work against all those core principles. I think there is a

:18:48. > :18:52.broad consensus about what needs to be done and I hope we can develop

:18:53. > :18:59.political and official at ministerial time to tackle them.

:19:00. > :19:02.Quality in the early years, targeting resources, creating

:19:03. > :19:07.opportunity areas, getting the best teachers we do need it, skills

:19:08. > :19:13.strategy focused on jobs, access and opportunities to the best jobs and

:19:14. > :19:20.progress through these jobs for the many and not for the few. Thank you

:19:21. > :19:28.very much. The question is as on the order paper. Thank you very much

:19:29. > :19:32.indeed. Let me start by echoing the words as expect of the Honourable

:19:33. > :19:36.Lady and the many other speakers in this house today in terms of paying

:19:37. > :19:43.tribute to those that lost their lives and were injured yesterday as

:19:44. > :19:50.well as the health staff. Think it's very aborted that business has

:19:51. > :19:56.resumed -- I think it's very important that business has resumed.

:19:57. > :20:00.Where better to start than on an important issue like social

:20:01. > :20:05.mobility? I was just looking at Twitter and I see that somebody has

:20:06. > :20:08.tweeted, how can there be a debate this afternoon everybody agrees?

:20:09. > :20:15.Given that many of us try to spend our time explaining why everybody

:20:16. > :20:18.doesn't agree in this place, I think it's rather nice on the whole to

:20:19. > :20:24.have a debate this afternoon where people broadly agree that there is a

:20:25. > :20:29.issue with social mobility in this country and that we would all like

:20:30. > :20:35.to tackle it. I would like to thank the Honourable members for this

:20:36. > :20:44.debate. Also those that are outside the house that has said briefings

:20:45. > :20:49.today sharing their thoughts. Britain is said to have a deep

:20:50. > :20:54.getting worse for an entire getting worse for an entire

:20:55. > :21:02.generation of young people. The briefing from teach first said that

:21:03. > :21:08.a failing to improve levels of social mobility will cost the

:21:09. > :21:15.economy and additional 4% of GDP. Frankly, this is something we cannot

:21:16. > :21:20.afford not to tackle. I want to talk about three things. Britain's social

:21:21. > :21:24.contract, schools, picking up some of the issues that have already been

:21:25. > :21:30.mentioned, also talking about social capital. Every generation expects

:21:31. > :21:35.there will be greater opportunities for the children and grandchildren.

:21:36. > :21:40.At the moment, this social contract and the expectation of social

:21:41. > :21:47.mobility has broken down. And amongst some groups of people.

:21:48. > :21:50.Education, I know the Minister is committed to this because they had

:21:51. > :21:57.fought alongside him, education is a key driver of the social mobility.

:21:58. > :22:01.Often in those parts of the country most needed, there is little

:22:02. > :22:05.educational aspiration and underperformance is entrenched. I do

:22:06. > :22:08.agree that tackling this should be the focus of this Government's

:22:09. > :22:10.education policy rather than having education policy rather than having

:22:11. > :22:18.yet another discussion about expanding selection. Last year's

:22:19. > :22:26.Ford and the rise of populism not just in this country but elsewhere.

:22:27. > :22:30.This was a cry that our social contract has broken down. Each

:22:31. > :22:34.generation expects better opportunities for the next

:22:35. > :22:38.generation. But I think we should be honest, and I certainly know from my

:22:39. > :22:45.own casework and talking to friends and family, but that isn't how many

:22:46. > :22:49.people see live today. There is pressure on public services and

:22:50. > :22:54.housing is unaffordable in many parts of the country for the next

:22:55. > :22:58.generation. The labour market feels incredibly insecure. Also very, very

:22:59. > :23:02.demanding, which has a knock-on effect. The Honourable Lady

:23:03. > :23:09.mentioned in numbers of words that children from different backgrounds

:23:10. > :23:14.no by the time secretary. There is also interesting research about the

:23:15. > :23:15.number of minutes each day that parents from different backgrounds

:23:16. > :23:17.spends on and interacting with the spends on and interacting with the

:23:18. > :23:22.younger children. If you are working younger children. If you are working

:23:23. > :23:26.on an insecure job with long arbours, you have less time to

:23:27. > :23:33.interact with your children that if you are not in that position. --

:23:34. > :23:39.with long hours. Particularly highlighting the issue of parental

:23:40. > :23:45.contact, let's focus on the issue of contact with fathers and the

:23:46. > :23:49.Government has made great strides to ensure that there is opportunities

:23:50. > :23:53.and work but can also make opportunities to show that fathers

:23:54. > :24:01.are not only in contact but involved in their children's upbringing and I

:24:02. > :24:06.sort fathers of going through criminal justice system, there is

:24:07. > :24:13.often a absent father or a father not involved in their lives.

:24:14. > :24:20.He is absolutely right, the importance of having two parents, or

:24:21. > :24:24.two important role models in life, particularly, for boys and girls,

:24:25. > :24:28.having a strong parental or male role model in life, cannot be

:24:29. > :24:32.underestimated. I think it would be a secret to say that I disagree with

:24:33. > :24:39.the Honourable Member for Chingford on some issues of policy, but the

:24:40. > :24:45.work he has done for social justice, on the importance of families and

:24:46. > :24:49.public policy, cannot be underestimated. On the issue of

:24:50. > :24:54.working hours, what I find from my own constituency, in south-west

:24:55. > :24:58.London, is the big determinant is ethnicity. If you travel a long way

:24:59. > :25:03.to get here, and education is the most important thing for you, your

:25:04. > :25:07.children, in my experience, are going to do exceptionally well,

:25:08. > :25:10.whatever the hours you work are, because of the inhuman tableaux. If

:25:11. > :25:14.we look at grammar schools in south London, the young people going to

:25:15. > :25:19.those schools are overwhelmingly, when they are not privileged people,

:25:20. > :25:26.from particular ethnic minorities. In my experience, they are

:25:27. > :25:29.particularly children from the Tamil community. I think she makes a

:25:30. > :25:35.really interesting point, and there is a broader point, that we are

:25:36. > :25:37.sometimes reluctant to explore too much the differences between

:25:38. > :25:41.different communities, different ethnic backgrounds, in terms of

:25:42. > :25:45.social mobility. She is absolutely right. If you walk around Chinatown

:25:46. > :25:49.on a Saturday morning, you will see children sitting there, often their

:25:50. > :25:53.parents restaurant, doing their homework. I don't think I need to

:25:54. > :25:57.tell the minister about the successes, particularly in maths of

:25:58. > :26:01.students from the Far East. But also, she is absolutely right to

:26:02. > :26:05.talk about the drive and aspiration. I wanted to come onto that in a

:26:06. > :26:07.moment. It always struck me when I was Secretary of State that around

:26:08. > :26:12.the world there are young people their families fighting for

:26:13. > :26:17.education. We have, sometimes, in this country, parents fighting to

:26:18. > :26:20.take their children to Disneyland. That tells me that education is not

:26:21. > :26:25.given the importance and everybody's lives that it should be. I think she

:26:26. > :26:29.is right to say, and part of the London Challenge again, and it is

:26:30. > :26:32.difficult to pick exactly what it was, because a lot of different

:26:33. > :26:36.facts made a difference, but part of that is, I suspect, because of

:26:37. > :26:39.diverse ethnic backgrounds and the importance that people from

:26:40. > :26:43.different ethnic backgrounds attached to education. And

:26:44. > :26:46.everything that goes with that. So, as I was saying, there are parts of

:26:47. > :26:51.the country that feel they are very much left behind other parts of the

:26:52. > :26:55.country. That is picked up on the commission report. The commission's

:26:56. > :26:59.report also says that today only one in eight children from low-income

:27:00. > :27:04.backgrounds are likely to become a high income earner has an adult.

:27:05. > :27:08.Politicians and government have to find a way of renewing that social

:27:09. > :27:13.contract. Otherwise, we are playing into the hands of those that feed on

:27:14. > :27:17.that dissent and take advantage of that at forthcoming elections. That

:27:18. > :27:21.means a real focus on communities and areas where social divisions are

:27:22. > :27:29.at their widest, and social mobility has stalled or is going backwards. I

:27:30. > :27:33.recently have been studying the Louise Casey review on opportunity

:27:34. > :27:39.and integration. I think we are waiting for the Government response

:27:40. > :27:43.on that. It is a fascinating report. She says integration is a key part

:27:44. > :27:47.of a successful immigration policy. I think we haven't used the word

:27:48. > :27:50.integration on immigration discussions enough, I am not

:27:51. > :27:53.expecting the minister to answer that, because he is not a Home

:27:54. > :27:58.Office minister. She goes on to say that social mobility is a key part

:27:59. > :28:01.of integration. She says, as well as providing economic advantages,

:28:02. > :28:05.social mobility also provides knock-on benefits such as reducing

:28:06. > :28:09.grievances, heightening the sense of belonging to a country and

:28:10. > :28:13.community, and the increasing geographic mobility and social

:28:14. > :28:17.mixing, too. As I said before, schools and education of the great

:28:18. > :28:24.driver of social mobility. I think it is worth drawing attention again

:28:25. > :28:28.to what the report says, that despite a welcome focus on improving

:28:29. > :28:30.attainment in schools, the link between social Lomography and

:28:31. > :28:39.educational destiny has not been broken. I think my honourable friend

:28:40. > :28:43.was right. This was not the thought of just one government, it was over

:28:44. > :28:46.successive years. It cannot be right that D-Link has not been broken.

:28:47. > :28:52.Over the last five years, 1.2 million 16-year-olds,

:28:53. > :28:57.disproportionally flee from low-income homes, had left school

:28:58. > :29:00.without five good GCSEs. It also says a child living in one of

:29:01. > :29:06.England's most disadvantaged areas is 27 more times likely to go to an

:29:07. > :29:10.inadequate school, than a child living in one of the least

:29:11. > :29:20.disadvantaged. Ten local authorities account for one in five of England's

:29:21. > :29:23.children in failing schools. We know where the problem is. We've got to

:29:24. > :29:27.work out how we are going to fix it. What does this mean in practice? It

:29:28. > :29:31.means those of us who talked about choice, choice in education in

:29:32. > :29:34.particular, for those families where they are surrounded by schools which

:29:35. > :29:38.are inadequate, choice is a hollow word. There are no good or

:29:39. > :29:43.outstanding schools in those areas. Those are the very families that

:29:44. > :29:47.cannot afford to buy their way out of the poor services, or even afford

:29:48. > :29:52.the transport to a different area. So, the focus on areas is right. In

:29:53. > :29:57.the White Paper that the department published last March, achieving

:29:58. > :30:01.excellence, areas were announced, areas of entrenched educational

:30:02. > :30:06.underperformance, and where access to high-quality teachers, leaders

:30:07. > :30:10.and sponsors was insufficient. They are now opportunity areas. I hope

:30:11. > :30:14.the minister might say more about the opportunity areas in concluding

:30:15. > :30:18.remarks. It would be helpful to know what the plan is for investing in

:30:19. > :30:21.those areas, the services that are going to receive attention and how

:30:22. > :30:26.we are going to tackle the issue of getting high-quality teachers and

:30:27. > :30:31.leaders, and sponsors, into those areas. I think we can be more

:30:32. > :30:36.directional, that is where the Government and absolutely give a

:30:37. > :30:41.lead. The honourable lady touched on it, when she intervened, it is not

:30:42. > :30:45.just about attainment, it is about aspiration. One of my most formative

:30:46. > :30:48.experiences, and I think I have shared this before, when I went to

:30:49. > :30:53.visit a primary school in Lancashire. A good primary school, I

:30:54. > :30:57.think it was fair to say the staff room was not inclined towards my

:30:58. > :31:01.politics, but, anyway, we had a robust discussion about this. But I

:31:02. > :31:06.was struck by the headteacher, who had moved to this rather nice area,

:31:07. > :31:10.good school, but she had moved from an inner-city primary School, where

:31:11. > :31:14.she had said to me, well, those children in that school were never

:31:15. > :31:18.going to be more than requires improvement. How can you write off

:31:19. > :31:21.children before they have reached the age of 11 as never being more

:31:22. > :31:27.than requires improvement? What a waste of human potential, what a

:31:28. > :31:33.waste for our country of those young people. It is that attitude that has

:31:34. > :31:38.to be overcome. The attitude in families, that my child can access a

:31:39. > :31:42.profession, they can go to university, they can get a great

:31:43. > :31:46.apprenticeship, even though perhaps the parent wasn't fortunate enough

:31:47. > :31:49.to do so. It is challenging the attitude that school, that these

:31:50. > :31:55.children absolutely will fulfil the potential that we have spotted.

:31:56. > :32:01.Particularly with the issue of aspiration, I think all parents

:32:02. > :32:07.aspire for their children. What some parents don't know is how to make

:32:08. > :32:11.that happen. We know doing more homework on more evenings is more

:32:12. > :32:16.likely to be able to get you to get to where you want to aspire to. It

:32:17. > :32:22.is the lack of being able to connect the reality and the required work

:32:23. > :32:28.with the aspiration that is a real problem. I entirely agree with the

:32:29. > :32:31.honourable lady. It is not that parents don't want the best for

:32:32. > :32:35.their child. If you ask most parents on the birth of a child, what do you

:32:36. > :32:40.want, you want your child to be happy, healthy and successful in

:32:41. > :32:43.life. She is right, I am going to talk about extracurricular

:32:44. > :32:46.activities in a moment. Again, there is a social injustice in terms of

:32:47. > :32:51.access to the activities as well. She is right about the support. All

:32:52. > :32:57.the nagging that middle-class parents do, doing homework,

:32:58. > :33:00.encouraging children to read more books, often those things do not

:33:01. > :33:03.happen. Not for lack of wanting them, but perhaps it wasn't done to

:33:04. > :33:09.parents themselves. The idea of going into your child's School, if

:33:10. > :33:13.you had an unhappy school experience yourself, challenging teachers, is a

:33:14. > :33:16.total anathema as well. Things like attendance at parents evenings are

:33:17. > :33:22.indicative, actually, of the support that the children are getting at

:33:23. > :33:27.home. So, aspiration is about aiming high for young people. I didn't have

:33:28. > :33:31.a chance to look at the name of the school, so I will apologise, but I

:33:32. > :33:35.went to a fantastic primary school in Northamptonshire, where there was

:33:36. > :33:39.a high proportion of children on free school meals, but every child,

:33:40. > :33:42.they were working with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and every child

:33:43. > :33:48.has access to Shakespeare, to language, hearing the tiniest

:33:49. > :33:51.children talking about Shakespeare characters, watching older children

:33:52. > :33:55.performing very complicated scenes which, frankly, I would have

:33:56. > :33:58.difficulty remembering all of those lines, let alone them, but they were

:33:59. > :34:02.doing it brilliantly. The headteacher there had a very high

:34:03. > :34:06.aspirations. All of my children, he said, will be able to do this and

:34:07. > :34:10.will benefit and learn. We are doing incredibly well. I want to pay

:34:11. > :34:13.tribute to the National Association of teachers foster ting up their

:34:14. > :34:18.primary futures campaign. This about getting adults into schools to talk

:34:19. > :34:25.about their careers, broaden horizons. When I was in the DFA, we

:34:26. > :34:30.sat at the Careers And Enterprise Company. I think that the broadening

:34:31. > :34:35.horizons and inspirational careers advice is so important. We had

:34:36. > :34:38.debates before. There will be a difference in opinion about things

:34:39. > :34:41.like work experience. One week dry work experience in an office is not

:34:42. > :34:47.going to set a flame alight. But a week, and I render speaking to

:34:48. > :34:49.apprenticeships, a week at Rolls-Royce, where they can see

:34:50. > :34:53.where the maths they are learning, how it would be applied in the

:34:54. > :34:56.workplace, they went back to school more determined to do better in

:34:57. > :35:01.their maths classes, that is something that sets the flame alive.

:35:02. > :35:05.There is a changing labour market. The honourable lady, and in the

:35:06. > :35:08.article that we wrote at the weekend, it talked about the number

:35:09. > :35:13.of high skilled jobs that are going to be around. Again, in the teach

:35:14. > :35:18.first briefing, by 2022, the British economy is expected to experience a

:35:19. > :35:22.shortage of 3 million workers to fill 15 million high skilled jobs.

:35:23. > :35:25.By the same time, there will be 5 million more low skilled workers

:35:26. > :35:33.than there are low skilled jobs. I don't want to mention the B word,

:35:34. > :35:37.because it is nice not to be talking about the European Union. But if

:35:38. > :35:40.were going to have a changing immigration policy, fewer coming

:35:41. > :35:42.from overseas, even more we need to make sure that our young people are

:35:43. > :35:46.trained for the labour market of the 21st century. That is my problem

:35:47. > :35:51.with this government's focus on introducing more selection. We do

:35:52. > :35:56.not now live in a world where we only need the top 20%, 30%, to be

:35:57. > :36:02.highly skilled. We need everybody to have access to a knowledge which,

:36:03. > :36:06.excellent academic curriculum. A renewed battle over selection does

:36:07. > :36:09.distract from what is needed in our education system to deal with the

:36:10. > :36:13.demands of the 21st-century labour market, to give everyone a chance to

:36:14. > :36:20.close social divisions and to build a consistently strong school system.

:36:21. > :36:23.There has been research from the Education Policy Institute about the

:36:24. > :36:27.negative effects on those not attending grammar schools. They talk

:36:28. > :36:34.about pupils living in the most selective areas, but not attending a

:36:35. > :36:37.grammar school, the negative points were places are not available for

:36:38. > :36:42.70% of high attaining pupils. They said there were five times as many

:36:43. > :36:46.non-selective and quality schools in England as there are grammar

:36:47. > :36:52.schools. Every child is entitled to an academic curriculum. Like the

:36:53. > :36:56.minister, I have seen some great schools in unexpected places. I

:36:57. > :36:59.remember my visits to King Solomon Academy in London. I think the

:37:00. > :37:10.minister will have been there as well. Also, Russia -- rushy Mead in

:37:11. > :37:14.Leicester, where children on free school meals are doing incredibly

:37:15. > :37:19.well in terms of the results they are achieving. I also pay tribute to

:37:20. > :37:26.the Harris Academy. The honourable lady mentioned heads in Surrey that

:37:27. > :37:30.have written about selection. Leicester heads have also written to

:37:31. > :37:32.the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State about this. Impressively,

:37:33. > :37:36.they have got every single headteacher in Leicestershire to

:37:37. > :37:41.sign the letter. If the Minister has not seen it, I hope he is able to

:37:42. > :37:45.get hold of it. I want to read one paragraph. As professionals who have

:37:46. > :37:48.dedicated our lives to educating children across Leicestershire, our

:37:49. > :37:51.concern is that all the children in our region, removing the most able

:37:52. > :37:55.pupils in our schools will have a negative impact on those that

:37:56. > :37:59.remain. Removing the option of ambitious, all ability conferences,

:38:00. > :38:05.with a scarcity of academic role models, will impact most

:38:06. > :38:07.particularly on the least affluent and least able. Therein lies the

:38:08. > :38:14.most significant injustice of this policy. I want to move to social

:38:15. > :38:18.capital. One of the things that I tried to champion when I was in the

:38:19. > :38:22.education department was that academic attainment is important. We

:38:23. > :38:26.should set high aspirations and ambitions for all pupils. There is

:38:27. > :38:29.something else that many pupils in the best schools gain, which I want

:38:30. > :38:35.all pupils to gain. That is those character traits, the persistence,

:38:36. > :38:40.the resilience, the self confidence, self-esteem, those values and

:38:41. > :38:45.virtues of integrity, honesty, whatever it might be, that actually

:38:46. > :38:49.helped to build a whole people. I was at a school in north London

:38:50. > :38:55.recently, where they focus on building social capital amongst

:38:56. > :38:58.their female... Well, they are an all-female school, amongst their

:38:59. > :39:02.pupils, they are conscious of how their pupils are going to compete

:39:03. > :39:07.with the pupils from the Independent school down the road. I visited the

:39:08. > :39:13.King 'S Leadership Academy in Warrington, a new free school, now

:39:14. > :39:16.oversubscribed, where behaviour is good, in fact excellent, where

:39:17. > :39:20.aspirations are incredibly high, and where they train all of the young

:39:21. > :39:25.people for leadership. Kings Langley, in Hertfordshire, another

:39:26. > :39:30.fantastic school. I could go on. But that is why, in terms of educating

:39:31. > :39:32.young people, it is not just what happens in the classroom, it is

:39:33. > :39:36.about access to other schemes. I want to pay tribute to the former

:39:37. > :39:39.Prime Minister and the current Government for the focus on national

:39:40. > :39:43.citizen service, as well as other schemes, social action,

:39:44. > :39:46.volunteering, uniform activities like the cadets, the guides,

:39:47. > :39:51.discounts, the Duke of Edinburgh, all of those things that build up

:39:52. > :39:55.confidence in young people. Without that, I think any of us that have

:39:56. > :39:57.been employers that have interviewed, the ability for a young

:39:58. > :40:01.person to walk through the door, look us in the eye, shake us by the

:40:02. > :40:06.hand, some children are taught that and encouraged to do that, and some

:40:07. > :40:07.are not. It is those things that do matter in terms of helping young

:40:08. > :40:17.people to get on. But it was very interesting in the

:40:18. > :40:24.report that they specifically talk about this and the difference in

:40:25. > :40:26.social background and how to participate in extracurricular

:40:27. > :40:32.activities. 40% of children whose mother had a postgraduate degree had

:40:33. > :40:45.mystic lessons compared with much lower. Compared with 56% of children

:40:46. > :40:49.whose mother had no formal qualifications. I was pleased in the

:40:50. > :40:53.budget that the Chancellor announced funding for a longer school day. It

:40:54. > :40:57.would be helpful to know what emphasis the department will put on

:40:58. > :40:58.that top schools put on those activities. It's not always about

:40:59. > :41:04.the schools putting bees on the schools putting bees on

:41:05. > :41:14.themselves but enabling them to happen. -- the Department booklet on

:41:15. > :41:17.that schools put on. I very much support what she is saying

:41:18. > :41:22.particularly about social capital and building character and

:41:23. > :41:31.education. Isn't that an opportunity now where many a child is just

:41:32. > :41:35.coming from a background of conflict and, and survival to help build

:41:36. > :41:41.these building blocks that others get outside of school? To build that

:41:42. > :41:44.resilience and the self-esteem and respect for others, to build the

:41:45. > :41:58.character that is so vital in the future. Was very pleased to support

:41:59. > :42:03.the amendment. The amendment to the children and social work well. He's

:42:04. > :42:08.absolutely right. One of the most important characteristics is the

:42:09. > :42:19.resilience and stickability, the ability to do deal with what life

:42:20. > :42:23.throws at you. Families are able to help young people develop that, this

:42:24. > :42:29.will go part of the way to build more resilient and confident young

:42:30. > :42:32.people for the 21st-century. I don't think we will agree with everything

:42:33. > :42:36.in the Commissioner's report but I think it shows that we have a

:42:37. > :42:39.problem with social mobility. For those of us that one nation

:42:40. > :42:45.politicians, that should make us uncomfortable. There is talk of a

:42:46. > :42:50.meritocracy, the difficulty of that is that who decides who has merit. I

:42:51. > :42:59.would prefer to say that everyone has potential but the key to

:43:00. > :43:05.unlocking that potential is sometimes not available to

:43:06. > :43:07.everybody. How can we build a consensus? How come a broad

:43:08. > :43:12.cross-party amendment to just do that? It has to be about more than

:43:13. > :43:18.words. Much has been done by governments but there's much more to

:43:19. > :43:24.do if we are to renew our broken social contract and build real

:43:25. > :43:33.social ability in this country. I'd obviously like to thank the

:43:34. > :43:34.Honourable magister essential for the cross-party collaboration work

:43:35. > :43:39.that has brought about this debate that has brought about this debate

:43:40. > :43:43.on this important subject. The time-honoured fashion of

:43:44. > :43:48.Westminster, the inverse relationship between it and the

:43:49. > :43:56.importance of the subject and the attendant at the debate. Of course I

:43:57. > :44:02.join everybody in wanting to add my own expressions of condolence to

:44:03. > :44:07.those that were injured and killed in the horrific attack and family

:44:08. > :44:11.and friends and to add my own heartfelt tribute and admiration for

:44:12. > :44:16.the emergency services and police who worked so tirelessly as they did

:44:17. > :44:24.yesterday to keep us safe. Madam Deputy Speaker, the underlying tries

:44:25. > :44:30.which hands -- the underlying choice is do we want to live in a closed

:44:31. > :44:34.society where people are in effect told to another place or do we want

:44:35. > :44:43.to live in an open society where people get to choose? I think it is,

:44:44. > :44:49.I hope, of unarguable cross-party consensus that we should aspire to

:44:50. > :44:55.the latter. I am devoted to see the Social Mobility Commission under the

:44:56. > :45:05.chairmanship of other Melbourne produces reports. I would say that

:45:06. > :45:10.because I set it up and on the 5th of April 2011 I establish it.

:45:11. > :45:15.Looking back on it, I announced on the same day a new set of indicators

:45:16. > :45:21.which would help Whitehall judge whether social mobility was being

:45:22. > :45:23.progressed or not and also established a ministerial committee

:45:24. > :45:32.which I cheered for many years on the subject. Which I was chairman

:45:33. > :45:38.of. White didn't have a set of indicators before this. When I came

:45:39. > :45:45.into Government, I discovered there were interns working in Whitehall

:45:46. > :45:50.that were paid by the taxpayer purely based on who they knew.

:45:51. > :45:54.People were being given a leg up based on who they knew by that and

:45:55. > :46:01.what they knew. It is a tactic that in the intervening 576 years, this

:46:02. > :46:09.has become a regular feature of the annual cycle of an instance. I

:46:10. > :46:13.remember David Cameron ruthlessly observant to me that maybe I had

:46:14. > :46:19.made a mistake that somebody from the opposition party should chair of

:46:20. > :46:27.the precursor body to the social ability commission. The first report

:46:28. > :46:31.has been critical of what the Government had done. I said, that is

:46:32. > :46:38.the whole point. I said, you need an institution that is critical of the

:46:39. > :46:44.Government and that is fearless of criticising the Government. They

:46:45. > :46:52.should report to Parliament rather than Government. The commission has,

:46:53. > :46:57.to put it politely, had its wings clipped by this Government. It was

:46:58. > :47:04.announced that it would remove the child poverty we Met Office

:47:05. > :47:13.commission. -- the child poverty we might of the commission. I hope that

:47:14. > :47:16.that is not the first step in an attempt to make the commission any

:47:17. > :47:24.models that are less brochures and its all-important work. -- to make

:47:25. > :47:31.the Commissioner any more docile or less brochures in it's all aboard

:47:32. > :47:36.work. I would like to four was on the issues that have been touched on

:47:37. > :47:45.by the remarks from my co-sponsors already. The first is, as the

:47:46. > :47:54.Honourable member for Manchester Central has pointed out, this is the

:47:55. > :48:01.role of early years. We all know now, intuitively as parents but also

:48:02. > :48:05.as what has happened over the last decade or so, the academic efforts,

:48:06. > :48:13.from neuroscience to the academic research done by educationalists,

:48:14. > :48:17.has just confirmed the axiomatic importance of what happens to a

:48:18. > :48:23.child's brain, trials's willingness to learn and to a tutor authority,

:48:24. > :48:36.ability to mix with other children and so on. So much is formed or not

:48:37. > :48:42.forced -- or not fostered or neglected by the early years support

:48:43. > :48:46.we provide to children. I would like to highlight two areas where have

:48:47. > :48:53.sums concerned. The thing I am most proud of in my time in Government

:48:54. > :48:59.was the initiative we trick. No Government had done it before. It

:49:00. > :49:06.was to provide by the state preschool support to two evils. That

:49:07. > :49:12.was for the first time. -- support to two-year-olds. Previously it had

:49:13. > :49:18.been confined to 3- for you both. The earlier you start with those

:49:19. > :49:23.from the most deprived families, the biggest multiplier effect it has an

:49:24. > :49:32.supplicant educational performance. We introduced this effort for

:49:33. > :49:41.two-year-olds in families in the lowest 20%. Then redoubled it to

:49:42. > :49:49.40%. -- then redoubled it to 40%. Do you hold families... The Government

:49:50. > :49:57.is now embarked on a dramatic expansion of the title meant to 3-4

:49:58. > :50:03.level. I can say this as somebody that didn't get into the bunfight

:50:04. > :50:11.over the general election, that is because a big great Dutch auction in

:50:12. > :50:23.which the Labour and Tory party 's right charged with themselves. --

:50:24. > :50:29.would simply make a plea to all of would simply make a plea to all of

:50:30. > :50:34.ours, this being a cross-party event, to stop and consider whether

:50:35. > :50:42.this is where you have to make choices? Is this really the most

:50:43. > :50:49.sensible use of scarce resources, given the importance of early years?

:50:50. > :50:52.Is the expansion of a universal entitlement that does absolutely

:50:53. > :50:57.nothing to build upon this ground-breaking initiative providing

:50:58. > :51:06.earlier support to two worlds and does nothing to protect -- nothing

:51:07. > :51:10.to bridge a gap that is powerless in a child's developments between the

:51:11. > :51:15.point at which mum and dad will both go back to work and he pointed to

:51:16. > :51:28.bridge that trust can enjoy the state funded allocation of early as

:51:29. > :51:34.preschool support if .com from lower income families? We have the gap

:51:35. > :51:37.where a child's brain is... I knows nothing about the oversight but I'm

:51:38. > :51:44.told that this is where the brain does the most ordinary things.

:51:45. > :51:51.Things that are barely repeated at any other point in life. -- the most

:51:52. > :51:58.extraordinary things. I think there is a lots of rewiring going on in

:51:59. > :52:03.teenagers. The point is this, as a society, we all know that early

:52:04. > :52:06.years is one of the most important engines of social mobility, we all

:52:07. > :52:12.know that money doesn't grow on trees, we have decided, decision has

:52:13. > :52:19.been taking I think because of a non-evidence -based rush to double

:52:20. > :52:26.up on a universal entitlement, not to build on the initiative to

:52:27. > :52:37.provide for true rules. -- to provide for tree two-year-old, and

:52:38. > :52:41.many parents have to go back to work many parents have to go back to work

:52:42. > :52:44.and the point at which their children can be put into a setting

:52:45. > :52:54.where they receive entitlements, Mike Leigh I guess would be that --

:52:55. > :52:59.entitlements. My plea, I guess, would be... With. Entirely the

:53:00. > :53:06.direction of travel and Orient in a different direction. The challenge

:53:07. > :53:10.remains that we need to continue to target resources earlier and most

:53:11. > :53:17.particularly at those children from deprived families and we are not

:53:18. > :53:21.doing that. In the spirit of consensus, one of the successes of

:53:22. > :53:33.the coalition Government was the focus on early years and the early

:53:34. > :53:39.years foundation, the evidence that is boring, not least through the DWP

:53:40. > :53:42.and their programme in relation to parenting, is the quality of

:53:43. > :53:49.relationships between parents and that is a huge impact on children's

:53:50. > :53:56.long-term well-being and mental health. The evidence from partners

:53:57. > :54:02.shows that the quality relationships shows that the quality relationships

:54:03. > :54:08.are in need of focus. Is entirely right. I have to say, I've gone on a

:54:09. > :54:15.bit of a journey on this because I think I've always had a sort of

:54:16. > :54:21.slightly knee jerk liberal reaction about the idea of politicians and

:54:22. > :54:28.the Government and Whitehall seeking to tweak and improve something which

:54:29. > :54:35.I intuitively think is no business of politicians, how children are

:54:36. > :54:37.right honourable member from right honourable member from

:54:38. > :54:43.upright, I agree with almost nothing. I think on this issue, he

:54:44. > :54:49.lead the pack and said this is something that politicians need to

:54:50. > :54:58.grapple with. I'm pretty sure in the annual report, they recommend, this

:54:59. > :55:01.is on the first page of the summary, that Government should introduce a

:55:02. > :55:07.new parental support package including a cavity of the help of

:55:08. > :55:11.the child's check shows that the child is falling behind. This is

:55:12. > :55:19.clearly an area in which public policy is inching towards greater

:55:20. > :55:20.involvement. Many folk felt that it should be immune to public policy

:55:21. > :55:30.interventions. The other point is something I am

:55:31. > :55:34.sure everybody here is aware of, it is not glamorous, it is fiddly and

:55:35. > :55:39.difficult to fix, but it is acutely important. That is the quality of

:55:40. > :55:42.early years provision. The pay and status of early year teachers is a

:55:43. > :55:48.real, real problem. We don't have enough men going into early years

:55:49. > :55:56.teaching, pay is very low. They don't have qualified teacher status.

:55:57. > :55:59.My own view is, as the government seeks to expand the entitlement made

:56:00. > :56:04.available to three and four year olds, it is terrifically important

:56:05. > :56:10.that quantity does not come at a further cost of diminished quality.

:56:11. > :56:15.Anything the Minister us this afternoon about how the and status

:56:16. > :56:20.command, in the long run, paid for early year teachers can be improved,

:56:21. > :56:29.the better. The second point I would like to raise is money. I say this

:56:30. > :56:31.as someone who intervened aggressively in internal

:56:32. > :56:35.discussions, in those glory days in 2010, when you have to announce the

:56:36. > :56:40.fateful... Well, in many ways fateful, conferences spending round,

:56:41. > :56:46.setting out all sorts of unappetising cuts. I insisted that

:56:47. > :56:49.both per-pupil and indexed core budgets to schools should be

:56:50. > :56:56.protected. Both in terms of prices and pupil numbers, not least so we

:56:57. > :57:01.can have the pupil premium added on in a meaningful way, so it could add

:57:02. > :57:04.genuine value. I look at the trouble that the government backed was

:57:05. > :57:07.getting into. While a lot of it is complex, a lot of it is to do with

:57:08. > :57:13.the higgledy-piggledy, unjust, idiosyncratic way that schools have

:57:14. > :57:21.had budgets lamented over many decades, some of it is obvious. You

:57:22. > :57:27.cannot cancel, as the government did, shortly after the 2013 general

:57:28. > :57:39.election, the ?600 million education services grant. You cannot protect

:57:40. > :57:44.funding in cash terms only, per-pupil allocation in cash terms

:57:45. > :57:48.only, but not in real terms. You can't divert money, hundreds of

:57:49. > :57:53.millions of pounds, to free schools, many of which are doing a good job,

:57:54. > :57:56.frankly far too many which have been opened in places where there is not

:57:57. > :57:59.a desperate need for extra places, and possibly compound the error by

:58:00. > :58:05.spending hundreds of millions of extra pounds on opening new

:58:06. > :58:11.selective schools. Then asks schools to shoulder their own new increased

:58:12. > :58:18.national insurance, pension and, in some cases, print should bloody

:58:19. > :58:25.costs, and then come on top of that, a new funding formula with no

:58:26. > :58:30.additional money to make it work. You are bound to get in terrible

:58:31. > :58:32.trouble. I don't say this in a spirit of recrimination, but the

:58:33. > :58:37.Government should not be surprised it is encountering huge resistance

:58:38. > :58:40.across the house to these plans, huge disquiet from head teachers,

:58:41. > :58:44.parents and governors, because there is a limit to how much one can keep

:58:45. > :58:48.expecting improved performance from a school system which is put under

:58:49. > :58:52.those multiple and entirely self-inflicted financial stresses

:58:53. > :58:56.and strains. I know a little bit about this. Remember, in the

:58:57. > :58:59.Coalition Government we looked exhaustively at the case for

:59:00. > :59:04.introducing a national funding formula because the principal case

:59:05. > :59:08.for doing so is impeccable. It is woefully unfair. There are lots and

:59:09. > :59:12.lots of non-metropolitan schools, smaller rural schools, suburban

:59:13. > :59:16.schools, schools and the shires, which have been funded far less over

:59:17. > :59:19.a longer period of time. But the problem is, if you introduce a

:59:20. > :59:24.national funding formula, in a way that does not raise the overall

:59:25. > :59:30.financial tide for all schools, what happens is exactly what is now

:59:31. > :59:34.happening, the schools that they think are going to gain pots of

:59:35. > :59:37.money are disappointed, those that are going to lose are going to lose

:59:38. > :59:43.an unacceptable amount of money and you don't please anybody. The one

:59:44. > :59:46.area where I disagree with the right Honourable Member for Loughborough,

:59:47. > :59:49.her solution, if I understand it correctly, is to adjust the

:59:50. > :59:53.deprivation calculation buried within these numbers which, all

:59:54. > :00:01.credit to the Minister and his department, is a bone fide attempt

:00:02. > :00:04.to protect the funding to the poorest. I think I am right in

:00:05. > :00:07.saying, no doubt she will correct me if I am wrong, that one way to try

:00:08. > :00:12.to square the circle is to take a little bit of money from the

:00:13. > :00:20.deprivation allocation and raise the floor, the minimum amount... Have I

:00:21. > :00:23.got it wrong? The intricacies of the National funding formula are

:00:24. > :00:27.probably not quite right for me. But I think the issue the honourable

:00:28. > :00:31.gentleman wants to consider is the different grades, if you like, of

:00:32. > :00:37.deprivation and how that is funded. Of course, there is the Pupil

:00:38. > :00:40.Premium outside the national funding formula, but there are also ways to

:00:41. > :00:44.look at the deprivation, not just the overall deprivation waiting, it

:00:45. > :00:49.is the one within the different gradients. Again, I think it needs

:00:50. > :00:56.to be considered again, and the numbers rerun by the Department. I

:00:57. > :00:59.am grateful for that explanation, I will not try to improve on the

:01:00. > :01:06.technical proficiency she has displayed. I hope she has made my

:01:07. > :01:16.point, that you are condemned to fiddling around in the undergrowth,

:01:17. > :01:20.to try to get to the conclusion. It is just not possible to introduce a

:01:21. > :01:28.national funding formula in a way that is just and fair if you do not

:01:29. > :01:39.pump prime it. We did the next best thing, which is that we used ?400

:01:40. > :01:42.million to target it. It is a stopgap measure to address the

:01:43. > :01:50.underfunding of those most underfunded schools. I would plead

:01:51. > :01:54.with the Minister to learn from the past. If there is not new money

:01:55. > :01:58.forthcoming from the Treasury, and I doubt there is, do it again. It is

:01:59. > :02:06.not ideal, it is stopgap, it is temporary, it is much better to

:02:07. > :02:09.allocate targeted resources to schools that rightly complain about

:02:10. > :02:17.being most hardened by than annoying and upsetting everybody in the way

:02:18. > :02:22.that the Government seems destined to do. That is my helpful suggestion

:02:23. > :02:27.for a way out for the Government from this politically invidious

:02:28. > :02:31.position it finds itself in. A final point I wanted to make, which has

:02:32. > :02:34.again been made again, but it is with repetition, it is the

:02:35. > :02:39.importance of evidence -based policy. It really shouldn't have to

:02:40. > :02:42.be restated that when we do something as precious and as

:02:43. > :02:48.important as how we design the education system for our children,

:02:49. > :02:52.we should always be led not by dogma, not by ideology, not by

:02:53. > :02:56.personal hobby horses, but by the evidence. That is why, and I don't

:02:57. > :02:59.want to add to many of the points that were made earlier, it really

:03:00. > :03:05.does perplex me, the most polite way of putting it, that these old ideas

:03:06. > :03:11.of improved selection, for which there is almost no evidence

:03:12. > :03:15.internationally, locally or nationally, whatsoever, is being

:03:16. > :03:18.wheeled out. If the evidence is not there, let me at least make a

:03:19. > :03:26.political plea. It is not popular with parents at all. If you look at

:03:27. > :03:29.opinion polls, you find that older voters like it, particularly older

:03:30. > :03:34.voters that remember grammar schools in the old way, they like it. But

:03:35. > :03:38.parents that have to make invidious choices about where to send their

:03:39. > :03:41.children hate it. Also, the Government appears to have forgotten

:03:42. > :03:52.why previous governments, including previous Conservative governments,

:03:53. > :03:55.stopped it, because they are encountering resistance from their

:03:56. > :04:01.own voters. When I asked why we are proceeding with something which

:04:02. > :04:05.parents do not want, for which there is no manifesto commitment, I don't

:04:06. > :04:08.remember the Conservatives populating our television screens in

:04:09. > :04:16.the run-up to the 2015 general election, and we will introduce

:04:17. > :04:22.grammar schools. Apparently there is one unelected political apparatus in

:04:23. > :04:25.Number 10 he went to a grammar school and has joined forces with,

:04:26. > :04:30.or persuaded the Prime Minister, that it is a good idea. I am sure it

:04:31. > :04:34.is not as simple as that. Surely it cannot be the case that the whole of

:04:35. > :04:39.Whitehall is being led by the nose because of the personal prejudices

:04:40. > :04:46.of one unelected political appointees in Number 10. I have to

:04:47. > :04:54.quote a magnificent quote from the Times Educational Supplement,

:04:55. > :04:58.Russell Hobby, the leader of the NAHT, he said in no other sector

:04:59. > :05:08.would this be acceptable. If the Minister for health wanted to

:05:09. > :05:11.increase funding for homoeopathy, because it did wonders for his

:05:12. > :05:15.uncle's irritable bowel in the 1970s, so it must be right for

:05:16. > :05:20.people today, there would be a uproar. This is the metaphor for

:05:21. > :05:23.grammar schools, it is educational homoeopathy. I would hope the

:05:24. > :05:28.Minister, who will not be able to disagree with the new orthodoxy,

:05:29. > :05:31.will mourn the less privately go to his Secretary of State and other

:05:32. > :05:36.powers that be in Whitehall and stop this fetish with selection before it

:05:37. > :05:44.gets this Government into a terrible trouble. Where does the evidence

:05:45. > :05:52.suggests we should do more? This is where I must... Well, not exactly

:05:53. > :05:58.declare an interest, but I am on a commission that I share for the

:05:59. > :06:03.social market foundation, looking at some of the key evidence -based

:06:04. > :06:10.drivers for the increase and in existence of inequality in

:06:11. > :06:15.education. One of the most striking conclusions, again, which is

:06:16. > :06:27.intuitively much like the importance of early education, it is obvious to

:06:28. > :06:33.all of us, it is the intimate relationship between educational

:06:34. > :06:41.underperformance in some of the deprived parts of the country and

:06:42. > :06:45.high teacher turnover, lack of experienced teachers in those

:06:46. > :06:49.schools. The proportional teachers not applied in primary schools with

:06:50. > :06:54.the highest concentration of free school meal pupils is 4%. In the

:06:55. > :06:58.most accurate percentile, it is half that. It is a very similar pattern

:06:59. > :07:06.in secondary schools, where the richest schools have 5% unqualified

:07:07. > :07:09.teachers, the poorest have 9%. The schools serving the most

:07:10. > :07:14.disadvantaged communities are also experiencing far higher levels of

:07:15. > :07:20.teacher turnover than neighbouring, more advantaged schools. The policy

:07:21. > :07:26.challenge, which is not... Does not detonate with the same attention,

:07:27. > :07:32.fury and attention from the media selection and so on, it is a

:07:33. > :07:36.mundane, but nonetheless crucial one, what can we do to either

:07:37. > :07:41.attract highly qualified teachers to those parts of the country where

:07:42. > :07:44.they are not currently being attracted, and make those schools

:07:45. > :07:50.and teachers in those schools stay in those schools, and are then given

:07:51. > :07:55.the support to improve their own experience and qualifications. That

:07:56. > :08:00.is something which I know the Department for Education is looking

:08:01. > :08:04.at. I very much hope, as we continue to grapple with this elusive problem

:08:05. > :08:10.on how to build an open society, where people can go as far as their

:08:11. > :08:15.talents and their application, as far as their dreams take them,

:08:16. > :08:26.rather than having them determined by the circumstances of their birth,

:08:27. > :08:32.that is somewhere which we can make important contributors to. May I

:08:33. > :08:37.associate myself with all the comments of all of the members

:08:38. > :08:43.related to yesterday's incidents. It still seems completely unreal, what

:08:44. > :08:47.happened yesterday. My thoughts, for the brave police officer outside,

:08:48. > :08:52.losing his life, it just seems... It is hard to come to terms with. You

:08:53. > :08:57.know, not prejudging the basis of the person who did this, I suspect

:08:58. > :09:05.the issues of social mobility may also apply here. Particularly with

:09:06. > :09:10.reference to Louise Casey's report, the need for social integration

:09:11. > :09:12.amongst all peoples. I would like to thank the honourable members for

:09:13. > :09:16.Loughborough and Sheffield Hallam, and my honourable friend the member

:09:17. > :09:21.for Manchester Central, for securing this important debate. May I begin

:09:22. > :09:25.by saying that I wholeheartedly, has eight girl that went to a secondary

:09:26. > :09:28.modern, support the article in last week's Observer that made clear that

:09:29. > :09:33.grammar schools are not the answer to social mobility. I was proud to

:09:34. > :09:36.be a part of the last Labour government, where social mobility

:09:37. > :09:40.and education were an absolute priority. Earlier, I was able to

:09:41. > :09:44.give thanks to lord Adonis who, in my assessment, was one of the best

:09:45. > :09:48.ministers that we ever had. I would also like to make reference to

:09:49. > :09:57.today's figures about teenage pregnancy rates, where the last

:09:58. > :10:02.Labour's -- Labour Government's attempts to reduce that, that has

:10:03. > :10:07.led to them being the lowest figures ever. As the report was set up last

:10:08. > :10:10.year, under the present government we are slipping back decades in

:10:11. > :10:15.terms of progress. Those born in Britain in the 1980s are the first

:10:16. > :10:20.generation of people since 1945 to start their careers on a lower

:10:21. > :10:25.income than their parents. A child living in one of England's most

:10:26. > :10:30.disadvantaged areas is 27 times more likely to go to an inadequate school

:10:31. > :10:38.and a child in an affluent area. Just 5% of children receiving free

:10:39. > :10:41.school meals will secure five a grades at GCSE. Children from

:10:42. > :10:46.low-income homes are 30% more likely to drop out of education than

:10:47. > :10:51.wealthier classmates with similar GCSE grades. Overall, pupils on free

:10:52. > :10:52.school meals like behind wealthier counterparts by about 20 months by

:10:53. > :11:03.secondary school age. For working people in my community,

:11:04. > :11:12.the link between social class and success is more apparent than ever.

:11:13. > :11:19.Working-class people make up only 4% of doctors, 6% barristers and 11% of

:11:20. > :11:23.generation of talent which being generation of talent which being

:11:24. > :11:27.frozen out. I want to make it clearer that grammar schools are not

:11:28. > :11:34.the answer. The House of Commons library owner research briefing from

:11:35. > :11:39.earlier this month states, pupils at grammar schools are much less likely

:11:40. > :11:45.than average to be eligible for free school meals, indeed only 2.6% of

:11:46. > :11:56.pupils are eligible for free school meals and this is a well understood

:11:57. > :12:00.signifier of poverty. 14% of pupils are eligible nationwide. This is

:12:01. > :12:06.because the attainment gap between rich and poor restrictions is clear

:12:07. > :12:09.even when they are a few years old. However, the briefing states that

:12:10. > :12:12.69% of pupils eligible for free school meals with higher prior

:12:13. > :12:20.attainment who are new selective attainment who are new selective

:12:21. > :12:26.schools only to -- only 2.4 actually attend a grammar school. -- that

:12:27. > :12:35.6.9% of pupils. Even the very brightest students that are at

:12:36. > :12:39.impoverished does it work. Why the Government wastes time banging on

:12:40. > :12:44.about grammar schools, the needs of about 5% of our state school

:12:45. > :12:49.students are being ignored. When I talk about social ability, and not

:12:50. > :12:53.just talking about the brightest students, I'm talking about the

:12:54. > :12:59.poorer students who are average to deserve no less to succeed in life

:13:00. > :13:03.through hard work. What we need more than ever as a prioritisation of

:13:04. > :13:08.comprehensive school education. If we don't have that, we will never

:13:09. > :13:14.address the national scandal of working-class underachievement in

:13:15. > :13:19.this country. Let us be clear, underachievement is a class issue

:13:20. > :13:25.and an ethnic issue. Boys and girls receiving free school meals who are

:13:26. > :13:31.white pitches are consistently the lowest performing group at GCSE

:13:32. > :13:38.level and the genders shown different. It's not about boys but

:13:39. > :13:45.boys and girls. Only 32% of working-class white British students

:13:46. > :13:52.achieve the GCSE benchmark last year. That's compared to 44% based

:13:53. > :13:58.race students, 59% of Bangladeshi student, 42% of black Caribbean

:13:59. > :14:01.students and 47% of Pakistani students also receiving free school

:14:02. > :14:11.meals. This is because the educational attainment of white

:14:12. > :14:16.students from the working-class backgrounds has improved at a much

:14:17. > :14:23.lower rate. -- much slower rate. I was part of the report that looked

:14:24. > :14:28.at white working-class underachievement. What we learned

:14:29. > :14:32.was that we don't know very much. A Pro12 does so much better at a good

:14:33. > :14:40.school. The benefit of being at a good school is much more important

:14:41. > :14:48.as a driver for them. -- a poor child does so much richer. I am

:14:49. > :14:53.forever grateful that there is to secondary schools from a great chain

:14:54. > :14:56.in my constituency. Last year, they achieved some amazing GCSE results,

:14:57. > :15:03.a staggering 77% of students a staggering 77% of students

:15:04. > :15:08.achieving five a- C, including maths and English. That is concurred with

:15:09. > :15:12.national average of 57%. These should be our ideals, these schools,

:15:13. > :15:23.not grammar schools we need to ensure disadvantaged receive the

:15:24. > :15:27.support they need. There needs to be better alternatives to university.

:15:28. > :15:33.This is not just about the children at the very top doing well. It's

:15:34. > :15:36.about all children being able to aspire and surpass expectations,

:15:37. > :15:39.including the average and below average student. If I have just got

:15:40. > :15:45.a couple of minutes, I don't wish to a couple of minutes, I don't wish to

:15:46. > :15:51.take any time from other members, but at the issue of housing in south

:15:52. > :15:56.London and in all of London is going to be a major dampener on social

:15:57. > :16:03.mobility. If you are in temporary accommodation and you live miles

:16:04. > :16:08.get to go to school. Every Friday at get to go to school. Every Friday at

:16:09. > :16:13.my advice surgery, I meet families were those families are being fined

:16:14. > :16:20.for not school attendance. Simply because they now live two or three

:16:21. > :16:26.hours away from whether schools are. I have letters that would make you

:16:27. > :16:32.cry about clever pupils missing their exams because they physically,

:16:33. > :16:35.simply, can't get to do them because the housing situation. Social

:16:36. > :16:40.housing is not fashionable. It's not something that everybody is going to

:16:41. > :16:46.come together apart but unless you have a roof and a secure and

:16:47. > :16:55.consistent roof over your head, the possibility of not achieving is

:16:56. > :16:59.huge. Thank you. I too would like to associate myself with the members

:17:00. > :17:07.comments today regarding the defence yesterday. I'd also like to send my

:17:08. > :17:12.condolences to the families that lost people in those incidents. I'd

:17:13. > :17:17.like to congratulate the members for securing this incredibly important

:17:18. > :17:23.debate as the chair of the old Rectory on -- of the all-party group

:17:24. > :17:30.on social ability I'm pleased to have the opportunity to debate this.

:17:31. > :17:35.The latest report. Those that haven't read this report should read

:17:36. > :17:45.it. It represents an urgent call for action in terms of what state of our

:17:46. > :17:49.nation is in terms of this issue. We've failed to recognise that there

:17:50. > :17:53.is a criminal waste of talent generation after generation and

:17:54. > :17:57.we've mistakenly and unquestionably accepted the myth that greater

:17:58. > :18:00.economic prosperity and greater opportunity for all. I think all

:18:01. > :18:11.those beliefs have been questions by this report. There is a crisis of

:18:12. > :18:19.opportunity. This is a crisis for everyone. It affects everyone. The

:18:20. > :18:24.motion that we debated today is on improving outcomes for all children.

:18:25. > :18:27.The Commissioner's report makes it clear that if we are to improve

:18:28. > :18:31.outcomes for all children need to intervene and give them more support

:18:32. > :18:34.well before the start school. My honourable friend, the member of

:18:35. > :18:44.Manchester Central set up the issue well. We know that by the time it

:18:45. > :18:46.students receive their GCSE results these indicators can be seen before

:18:47. > :18:50.the age of five. There are a number the age of five. There are a number

:18:51. > :18:57.of studies that show that cognitive outcomes vary hugely in terms of the

:18:58. > :19:05.economic group. By the age of five, that gap has widened further. It

:19:06. > :19:13.feels a little like closing the stable door after the horse has

:19:14. > :19:19.bolted. 500,000 children in the last decade were not school ready by the

:19:20. > :19:23.age of five and for many, the gap will still be there when they leave

:19:24. > :19:26.school if it has not widened even further. If we don't get the

:19:27. > :19:31.building blocks right from the start, it's exhibiting so much

:19:32. > :19:33.harder. The proposal for a guarantee of help for children shown to be

:19:34. > :19:40.falling behind at the age of two - falling behind at the age of two -

:19:41. > :19:49.2.5 years is something that be -- that we must take very seriously. It

:19:50. > :19:53.is pretty clear to me from what I've heard from local childcare providers

:19:54. > :19:55.that is going to be an enormous challenge for them to maintain

:19:56. > :20:00.standards under funding that they standards under funding that they

:20:01. > :20:02.expect to have available. There is already a situation developing

:20:03. > :20:08.rapport with children are twice as likely to have access to good

:20:09. > :20:16.quality childcare than those from a wealthy background. -- developing

:20:17. > :20:22.where less well-off children are twice as likely. And concerned that

:20:23. > :20:35.we are heading towards a situation where the process on... We cannot

:20:36. > :20:39.think it is acceptable for there to be a laissez faire attitude to the

:20:40. > :20:45.most important early years of a child's life when all the evidence

:20:46. > :20:51.tells us that this could have a profound influence on their live's

:20:52. > :21:00.chances. It is hugely important that once our children leave school they

:21:01. > :21:07.face huge barriers with confidence. We looked at opportunities in law,

:21:08. > :21:16.finance, the arts, media, medicine, civil service and politics. It found

:21:17. > :21:19.many to -- many similarities. Whatever the profession, the lack of

:21:20. > :21:24.opportunity and the reasons for that were often very similar. Across the

:21:25. > :21:30.go hand-in-hand. The Sutton trust go hand-in-hand. The Sutton trust

:21:31. > :21:36.research has shown is that the orders of senior judges attended

:21:37. > :21:40.private schools. Over half of the top 100 news journalists and over

:21:41. > :21:54.two thirds of British Oscar-winning. -- Oscar-winning. Research has

:21:55. > :21:58.showed that 50% of... Too often, internships are not just a way to

:21:59. > :22:02.get a foot in the door but it is actually the only way to get through

:22:03. > :22:07.the door. We have become almost a further compulsory step into many

:22:08. > :22:15.professions but by their very nature they exclude many. A legal ban has

:22:16. > :22:25.been recommended on I'm paid internships. We found that not only

:22:26. > :22:32.because the internships are not paid, also the location is often in

:22:33. > :22:37.London. If you are not on that location, and cannot stay with

:22:38. > :22:42.parents, you are stopped from taking place. These placements need to have

:22:43. > :22:55.the same rigour applied to them as if they were a permanent job.

:22:56. > :23:01.Otherwise,... Another area, it has been said that it isn't because the

:23:02. > :23:05.families don't want the best for their children, it is a much more

:23:06. > :23:10.complicated story than that. And sure if I was to go and speak to a

:23:11. > :23:12.group of children from poorer backgrounds in most constituencies

:23:13. > :23:18.and asked them what they would like to do. The vast majority wouldn't

:23:19. > :23:22.say doctor or a lawyer, for too many the very notion to consider careers

:23:23. > :23:26.like that is universally absent. They need for models and mentors.

:23:27. > :23:31.People in their communities that have been there and done it. We need

:23:32. > :23:44.to inspire children from a younger age. We shouldn't expect that coming

:23:45. > :23:49.from the from part of town. We need to develop a mindset within business

:23:50. > :23:55.that we treat social mobility on a par with projected characteristics

:23:56. > :23:59.in terms of a diverse workforce. We rightly challenge when we see

:24:00. > :24:03.getting the same opportunity. We getting the same opportunity. We

:24:04. > :24:08.should do the same here. We cannot allow the background of a person to

:24:09. > :24:16.determine the outcome of a prison's life. There should be a clear and

:24:17. > :24:17.public record of what the biggest companies are doing to ensure there

:24:18. > :24:28.is opportunity for all. A study in 2010 found that failing

:24:29. > :24:31.to improve social mobility will cost up to ?40 billion by 2050. We heard

:24:32. > :24:38.from some employers that they recognise that the business

:24:39. > :24:41.benefited from people that understood their customers, but they

:24:42. > :24:44.were the exception, rather than the rule. Businesses need to be

:24:45. > :24:47.persuaded that it is not just the right thing to do morally, it makes

:24:48. > :24:52.sense as a business. Media was one of those areas where we felt

:24:53. > :24:56.companies needed to do more to appreciate the benefits of a diverse

:24:57. > :24:59.workforce. Only last week, the London Evening Standard provided a

:25:00. > :25:02.perfect example of what I think is going wrong with social mobility.

:25:03. > :25:10.While I am sure the Honourable Member for Tatton has many talents

:25:11. > :25:16.and a broad range of skills and a broad range of areas, does anybody

:25:17. > :25:19.think he has the skills to be an editor? My son has more experience

:25:20. > :25:24.with the daily News, and he is a paperboy! What kind of message does

:25:25. > :25:29.this send to kids that are spending months and months on and placement

:25:30. > :25:36.in the media? It is not just the media, it is widespread in arts, and

:25:37. > :25:40.also in politics. As the Honourable Member for Sheffield Hallam said,

:25:41. > :25:45.the country is far too closed. It is too often that who you are born to

:25:46. > :25:48.find your life chances. Parents believe that their children will

:25:49. > :25:53.have less opportunities than them, and that is a shameful state of

:25:54. > :25:56.affairs for this country. Automation and artificial intelligence will

:25:57. > :25:59.only exacerbate the problem. We are miles away from even beginning to

:26:00. > :26:03.understand the social impact that will have. The only way we are going

:26:04. > :26:07.to be able to meet this challenge is by intensive, long-term government

:26:08. > :26:11.intervention. Not just over the long-term by the Government, but

:26:12. > :26:22.also the long term of our lives. Not just at five or 15, 35, 50. The

:26:23. > :26:25.world of work will change more rapidly than ever before and we need

:26:26. > :26:27.to recognise that opportunity is not just something that will have to be

:26:28. > :26:30.addressed in younger years, but throughout our lives. We have to

:26:31. > :26:32.invest through our working lives and we need government support to do

:26:33. > :26:35.that. Too often, there is talk of other number of jobs created, but

:26:36. > :26:39.too little talk about the quality and permanence of the jobs. Social

:26:40. > :26:43.mobility cannot take place against the backdrop of an explosion in

:26:44. > :26:48.part-time and insecure employment. In conclusion, there have been many

:26:49. > :26:52.fine words from members today about the need to improve social mobility.

:26:53. > :26:59.I believe it is time to listen to the evidence about what works and

:27:00. > :27:02.put those words into action. Thank you, I also want to associate myself

:27:03. > :27:08.with all of the remarks made about the senseless, horrific events of

:27:09. > :27:11.yesterday. The tribute paid to those people that lost their lives,

:27:12. > :27:18.including the brave police officer who was defending us all. I do think

:27:19. > :27:23.it is important that we continue undeterred, and it is important we

:27:24. > :27:29.debate this important report on the social mobility commission report,

:27:30. > :27:34.State Of The Nation. Before I came to despise, I was an academic

:27:35. > :27:37.sociologist. Having turned into a politician, I sometimes feel there

:27:38. > :27:40.is something of a mismatch between theory and practice. As an academic,

:27:41. > :27:46.you think something works if it works theory. As a politician, you

:27:47. > :27:51.have the media in your face, you have to think of a quick sound bite

:27:52. > :27:56.or you have somebody in a surgery that need some problem solved

:27:57. > :28:02.quickly. I am still grappling with these questions of life chances as I

:28:03. > :28:06.did when I was an academic. It is important that we should refute the

:28:07. > :28:08.notion that we have had enough of experts, partly the reason why I

:28:09. > :28:14.wanted to speak in this debate. The people on the commission are very

:28:15. > :28:23.eminent academics and practitioners. I wanted to focus in particular on

:28:24. > :28:26.chapter two, on schools. In my own career, I am incredibly privileged

:28:27. > :28:30.to represent the constituency I grew up in. I recall the same schools

:28:31. > :28:35.that I go to now, in the 80s, when they had buckets strategically

:28:36. > :28:39.positioned and the leaky roofs, catching drips. The same schools and

:28:40. > :28:42.the Labour were transformed, with the building schools for the future

:28:43. > :28:51.programme. Some of them looked like spaceships. Montpelier flag primary

:28:52. > :29:01.school, where I achieved a lifetime ambition by cutting the ribbon. We

:29:02. > :29:06.had the Prime Minister praise London as the greatest city on earth. I am

:29:07. > :29:09.proud to be a London MP. At 70% of London schools, people have

:29:10. > :29:14.mentioned the fair funding formula. 70% of London schools would be worse

:29:15. > :29:23.off under these new arrangements. I think in my constituency, it is a

:29:24. > :29:30.whopping 5.5 million that we will be down by, by 2019. That is 137

:29:31. > :29:36.teachers. An average child will receive ?485 less funding. It is

:29:37. > :29:41.most acute in Acton, where we have wards in some of the poorest

:29:42. > :29:46.deciles. I will be doing my surgery there tomorrow. People come along

:29:47. > :29:50.with horrific stories about housing conditions. They bring mobile

:29:51. > :29:55.phones, with evidence of the conditions they are living in, they

:29:56. > :29:59.have been shipped to far away from where they are because of the

:30:00. > :30:06.bedroom tax and things like this. Acton high school is going to be

:30:07. > :30:10.down ?961 per pupil, 26 pupils down, the budget down by ?1 million.

:30:11. > :30:15.Chapter two, the recommendations, page 53, it talks about how children

:30:16. > :30:19.from poorer backgrounds are experiencing a worrying drop in

:30:20. > :30:29.progress at secondary. This gap is widening, since 2012. Progress, year

:30:30. > :30:34.on year, compared to low-income families, the gap is widening. We

:30:35. > :30:38.should be very concerned about this. Among the recommendations was to

:30:39. > :30:41.ensure that funding cuts do not exacerbate the problem of poor

:30:42. > :30:45.pupils failing to make good progress at secondary. The idea that this

:30:46. > :30:53.funding formula is fair is quite simply laughable. As has been said,

:30:54. > :30:56.School education does not exist in a vacuum. The whole context of

:30:57. > :31:02.children's learning is also important. I was very fortunate to

:31:03. > :31:06.address a conference of a group called What About The Children,

:31:07. > :31:13.which deals with 0- three-year-olds. As a parent myself, I was lucky

:31:14. > :31:16.enough to use sure start centres. It was an amazing, joined the programme

:31:17. > :31:19.with education and health care services to give kids a good

:31:20. > :31:24.grounding. But the same children centres that I used to use are now

:31:25. > :31:28.facing devastating cuts and closures. We have also seen cuts in

:31:29. > :31:31.health promotion, fewer health visitors, all of this is

:31:32. > :31:34.contributing to a picture that is getting bleaker. It is little wonder

:31:35. > :31:40.that this week it was revealed that baby teeth removal is, extracting

:31:41. > :31:46.baby teeth from children, up 24% in the last decade. I think the right

:31:47. > :31:52.Honourable Member for Loughborough also mention parents evenings.

:31:53. > :31:59.Yesterday, the five-hour lockdown, I managed to miss my own parents

:32:00. > :32:04.evening. Some people may say the lengths people will go to, but it

:32:05. > :32:09.was my own fault. All of those things, the things that make a

:32:10. > :32:15.positive learning environment. There is a lot that can be said about this

:32:16. > :32:18.report. Chapter three goes on to post-16 education and training. I

:32:19. > :32:25.worry that rising tuition fees, I have in my seat the University of

:32:26. > :32:29.West London, where I have had representations from staff and

:32:30. > :32:35.students, that applications are down because of tuition fees. Also, the

:32:36. > :32:43.vote on June 24 as well, Brexit has led to a climate where international

:32:44. > :32:46.students no longer feel welcome. Also, the nurse bursary removal,

:32:47. > :32:53.they do nurse teaching in University of West London. Those are

:32:54. > :32:57.detrimental to post-16 training, education, jobs. Chapter four talks

:32:58. > :33:03.about jobs, careers and earnings for future generations. This Government,

:33:04. > :33:07.in its budget, announced the other week, and it feels ages ago, it was

:33:08. > :33:12.only last week, the week before last, that it is not only planning

:33:13. > :33:15.on with its dangerous selective school experiment, but it will

:33:16. > :33:21.provide free transport to grammars, which just seems such a misplaced

:33:22. > :33:25.priority at a time of these circumstances. There is much more

:33:26. > :33:31.that could be said. The eye-catching new 33 hours of childcare sounds

:33:32. > :33:36.good in practice. But if you try to find any... It is good in theory,

:33:37. > :33:39.but in practice, if you are trying to find any provider that can live

:33:40. > :33:47.up to this manifesto pledge by delivering that funding, sorry,

:33:48. > :33:52.delivering the 30 hours, that thinks that the funding is adequate to

:33:53. > :33:57.cover the increasing costs, it is harder than it should be anyway.

:33:58. > :34:02.It's impossible. It's like hens teeth. In London, families spend

:34:03. > :34:11.?7,000 a year on average on nursery fees. So, we all want the holy Grail

:34:12. > :34:15.of affordable, good quality, flexible childcare. To put it

:34:16. > :34:19.mildly, it is a challenge to find this. It is one of these things,

:34:20. > :34:22.like the decision to have a referendum on Europe, it seemed good

:34:23. > :34:28.in a manifesto at the time, but in reality it has not measured up to

:34:29. > :34:33.what was promised at the time. If we are looking at Life Course, a

:34:34. > :34:39.concept many sociologists consider, I have received coursework from

:34:40. > :34:45.right across the age range. We have talked about the Waspy women, the

:34:46. > :34:48.women born in the 1950s, they have high hopes for their futures and

:34:49. > :34:55.they feel they have had their trajectory thwarted twice by changes

:34:56. > :35:02.in pensions from Tory governments. This debate, with the cross-party

:35:03. > :35:07.ethos, has been, as everybody has pointed out, we have seen a large

:35:08. > :35:12.degree of consensus. Rather than this academic idea of making things

:35:13. > :35:16.work in theory, we all need to consider and work together to fix

:35:17. > :35:21.them in practice. It is assumed that every generation will do better than

:35:22. > :35:25.the generation before. But evidence contained in this report suggests

:35:26. > :35:29.that we are going in the wrong direction. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:35:30. > :35:34.yesterday we were faced with lockdown, and we were really all in

:35:35. > :35:41.it together. It's times like that when cross-party friendships

:35:42. > :35:44.flourish, and alliances. I say let them continue, let us continue in

:35:45. > :35:48.that spirit and make sure that these warnings that we are going in the

:35:49. > :35:58.wrong direction of travel are you did and that we can correct this

:35:59. > :36:01.erroneous direction of travel. I would like to join the honourable

:36:02. > :36:10.and right honourable members across all parties in the house that paid

:36:11. > :36:13.tribute to PC Keith Palmer, who gave his life for protecting this place

:36:14. > :36:17.and all that it represents. I would like to congratulate my honourable

:36:18. > :36:20.friends, the right Honourable Member for Manchester Central, the right

:36:21. > :36:23.honourable members for Loughborough and Sheffield Hallam, for securing

:36:24. > :36:31.the debate today. The member for Manchester Central, talking about

:36:32. > :36:34.government policy, picking the few, from the council home to the

:36:35. > :36:39.Cabinet. Today may not be today for you, but the tali tell is that I

:36:40. > :36:45.grew up in a two-bedroom, damp council flat in Manchester. Since

:36:46. > :36:48.becoming an MP, I now live in a council flat in Westminster. For

:36:49. > :36:57.some people's trajectory, it has gone downhill. I am one of the few.

:36:58. > :37:00.While democracy was being attacked yesterday, the Labour Party members

:37:01. > :37:09.in Manchester go on with selecting another council house kit, orphaned

:37:10. > :37:12.out of Pakistan, grew up in abject poverty, worked as a labourer, to

:37:13. > :37:17.night school he became a police officer, a solicitor and run his own

:37:18. > :37:23.practice. I wish him all the best over the next few weeks as we

:37:24. > :37:24.approach that election. The government's social mobility

:37:25. > :37:31.commission report explained that the scale of the challenge we face in

:37:32. > :37:37.improving social mobility in Britain today. Britain has a deep social

:37:38. > :37:41.mobility problem. It has identified four fundamental barriers holding

:37:42. > :37:44.back a whole tranche of low and middle-income families and

:37:45. > :37:50.communities in England. An unfair education system, a two tier labour

:37:51. > :37:56.market, an unbalanced economy and affordable housing market, as

:37:57. > :38:00.eloquently put by my friend. To say the least, my Government will have

:38:01. > :38:03.its work cut out, as will the A-lister who has been sent to defend

:38:04. > :38:06.policies that have led us to this point. The state of the nation

:38:07. > :38:13.report presented a Government with a number of proposals on schools, jobs

:38:14. > :38:19.and housing. There is no evidence so far that the government has listened

:38:20. > :38:23.to the proposals. That is why the debate is so important today. On

:38:24. > :38:27.early years, the report calls for the Government to set clear

:38:28. > :38:32.objective for services that, by 2025, every child is school already

:38:33. > :38:35.by five and the child's development gap is being closed. As a former

:38:36. > :38:41.teacher myself, I knew that my nursery teachers could predict at

:38:42. > :38:45.key stage one, key stage three, with 95% accuracy, what those children

:38:46. > :38:51.would be attaining, the exam results, each time, that we would

:38:52. > :38:54.provide high-quality childcare for low income families. The Department

:38:55. > :38:59.for Education has made no indication that it will adopt these plans. In

:39:00. > :39:04.fact, the policies could do exactly the opposite. The minister probably

:39:05. > :39:08.needs to say why we are directing resources towards those that will

:39:09. > :39:12.need it, why we are not directing resources for those that need it

:39:13. > :39:17.most. His department will spend about ?1 billion per year on policy,

:39:18. > :39:22.the so-called tax-free childcare that will have the greatest benefit

:39:23. > :39:25.for those that have ?10,000 to spend on childcare. I will give way to any

:39:26. > :39:31.member of this house, right here, right now, if they know a low-income

:39:32. > :39:36.family that have ?10,000 to spend on childcare.

:39:37. > :39:43.are a cult comedy minister will also deliver tell us why the eligibility

:39:44. > :39:49.criteria will also mean for the tens of thousands of low income families

:39:50. > :39:56.that are not actually eligible for childcare. The member Sheffield

:39:57. > :40:00.Hallam put it as this as policy in considerable trouble at the moment.

:40:01. > :40:06.And you're ready Minister is tired of being reminded that he is

:40:07. > :40:12.breaking promises from his manifesto. He promised that his

:40:13. > :40:18.party would give working parents from working-class families 3-4

:40:19. > :40:22.hours of free childcare. It is not about quantity but about quality, as

:40:23. > :40:28.mentioned by the member for Sheffield Hallam. Also we see

:40:29. > :40:34.nurseries under attack, Mehdi of these features are in doubt of the

:40:35. > :40:41.of these bursaries are in doubt over of these bursaries are in doubt over

:40:42. > :40:44.the next few weeks. That's why the Labour Government opened 3000 show

:40:45. > :40:49.stoppers letters and increased education spending in every year we

:40:50. > :40:55.were in Government. The Government just needs to follow that example.

:40:56. > :40:58.There are a number of recommendations on schools within

:40:59. > :41:04.the report. I will briefly address them. The member for Loughborough

:41:05. > :41:09.said that education is the key. She is a one nation Conservative.

:41:10. > :41:18.Disraeli said that on the steps of Manchester town Hall in 1982. I look

:41:19. > :41:21.for a century and to have later when we might get a one nation in

:41:22. > :41:26.of social mobility. The Minister of social mobility. The Minister

:41:27. > :41:32.made clear that the department's flagship vanity project to expand

:41:33. > :41:39.academic selection is wrong. The commission said that it recommends

:41:40. > :41:45.the Government rethink its plans for grammar schools. The Prime Minister

:41:46. > :41:53.has been told time and time again to rethink these plans. He will come

:41:54. > :41:57.back and say that... The default desisted. The sample is so small

:41:58. > :42:09.children who go to grammar schools on free school milk. It makes a of

:42:10. > :42:13.statistics. As member for rightly put out, to .6% of children in

:42:14. > :42:16.grammar schools are on free school meals competitor for two nationally.

:42:17. > :42:22.We've heard a great deal about the white paper we will see in the

:42:23. > :42:30.coming weeks. This paper should be based not on dogma but evidence. It

:42:31. > :42:34.seems the Chancellor has not made an announcement for a lot of money for

:42:35. > :42:38.grammar schools but none for our budgets. The member for Ealing Acton

:42:39. > :42:45.talked about the pockets and the rain. I trained as a teacher in the

:42:46. > :42:50.late 1990s. And remember going round with those buckets. By the time

:42:51. > :42:54.Labour left off as those arrests were built and repaired. The only

:42:55. > :43:05.thing is going through the roofs were standards. We need to think

:43:06. > :43:12.about these ?3 billion that is currently going to be cut from

:43:13. > :43:19.school budgets across this country over the next few years. Let's not

:43:20. > :43:26.pursued as divisive policy of selection. Let's fund education

:43:27. > :43:28.properly. Let's come together on improving mobility. Government is

:43:29. > :43:37.about choice and let's make the right choices. Thank you very much,

:43:38. > :43:41.Madam Deputy Speaker. I'd like to express my personal gratitude to all

:43:42. > :43:45.the brave men and women who work every day to protect us, showing

:43:46. > :43:51.immense bravery and they ran towards the danger as we stay safe. Our

:43:52. > :43:56.thoughts are with those that were injured and the families of those

:43:57. > :44:03.that tragically lost their lives. Can I congratulate my right

:44:04. > :44:08.honourable members on securing this debate. I agree with all the

:44:09. > :44:14.speakers in this debate about the importance of improving social

:44:15. > :44:17.of state has surmounted that social of state has surmounted that social

:44:18. > :44:25.abilities it at the heart of everything at that the Department

:44:26. > :44:35.for Education does. Schools should be additional funds for

:44:36. > :44:38.disadvantaged pupils. We have begun pioneering work in 12 opportunity

:44:39. > :44:51.areas that will partner with local communities to drive social

:44:52. > :44:54.mobility. We have introduced... This is to improve professional

:44:55. > :44:59.development for teachers in disadvantaged areas and other school

:45:00. > :45:02.reforms have let to 1.8 million more children having a good or

:45:03. > :45:06.outstanding school place that into thousand and ten, helping to ensure

:45:07. > :45:12.that they get education they need and deserve. The number of children

:45:13. > :45:20.starting in the combination of academic studies that make up the

:45:21. > :45:26.English baccalaureate has gone up. The Government is transforming

:45:27. > :45:29.technical education with new levels that add prestige and raise quality

:45:30. > :45:34.for students. I've listened carefully. The department's ambition

:45:35. > :45:39.is to ensure the circumstances be is to ensure the circumstances be

:45:40. > :45:50.child's birth and at determine what they achieved in life. We are

:45:51. > :45:59.delivering 30 hours of childcare. We are in trying to improve the quality

:46:00. > :46:03.of earlier's workforce. I pay tribute to the right honourable

:46:04. > :46:14.gentleman to with regard to that policy. We have seen a dramatic rise

:46:15. > :46:19.in early literacy. This year, 147,000 more sexual roles are on

:46:20. > :46:32.track to becoming fluent readers. -- more six-year-olds. The Government

:46:33. > :46:36.has been unapologetic in its unrelenting push to raise

:46:37. > :46:40.educational standards. Nearly nine in ten schools are rated by Ofsted

:46:41. > :46:44.to be good outstanding but there is still more to do. There is still

:46:45. > :46:48.over 1 million children attending a school that is not yet rated good.

:46:49. > :46:53.The Government wants every parents to have the choice of a good school

:46:54. > :47:00.place for their child. That's why we will create more good school places,

:47:01. > :47:04.harnessing the expertise of universities and lifting the ban on

:47:05. > :47:08.selective schools but faces. We don't think it's great that you only

:47:09. > :47:12.have the opportunity to go to an academically selective school if you

:47:13. > :47:16.live in a particular county in England when 90% of grammar schools

:47:17. > :47:21.are good are outstanding. We know that selective schools are vehicles

:47:22. > :47:27.of social mobility and I accept for those pupils at attend them almost

:47:28. > :47:30.eliminating the attainment gap between peoples from disadvantaged

:47:31. > :47:37.backgrounds and their peers. That's one argument about peoples in

:47:38. > :47:51.grammar schools make quicker progress. The house will also be

:47:52. > :47:58.aware that liability children that leave primary school with a level

:47:59. > :48:04.five and ersatz almost 7.8% if they go to a grammar school but only 53%

:48:05. > :48:08.if they go to a competitor. That is why we want to ensure that children

:48:09. > :48:17.from disadvantaged backgrounds have the opportunity to benefit from

:48:18. > :48:19.selective schools. Selective schools should work together with

:48:20. > :48:24.neighbouring primary and secondary schools to the benefit of all

:48:25. > :48:29.pupils. As the social ability commission report set out, there are

:48:30. > :48:34.source multicore spots across the country that are falling behind. 12

:48:35. > :48:39.of these areas have been designated as opportunity areas by the

:48:40. > :48:42.secretary of state, building on the work of the member for Loughborough.

:48:43. > :48:45.We will target interventions in these areas designed to improve

:48:46. > :48:47.opportunity and choice for pupils. opportunity and choice for pupils.

:48:48. > :48:52.These opportunity of this will These opportunity of this will

:48:53. > :48:57.enable us to identify new approaches to tackle the root causes of

:48:58. > :49:06.educational disadvantages. We will build a evidence base. As a social

:49:07. > :49:13.ability commission recommends, the signal biggest educational factor

:49:14. > :49:20.that improves education is teachers. We will invest in the profession. We

:49:21. > :49:26.will invest a substantial amount of the money for northern powerhouse

:49:27. > :49:31.school strategy to training teachers. We will improve

:49:32. > :49:37.professional development for teachers were we can make the most

:49:38. > :49:47.difference. Like you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to the Academy and free

:49:48. > :49:52.schools programme. Teachers have been instrumental in setting up some

:49:53. > :49:57.innovative free schools in areas of innovative free schools in areas of

:49:58. > :50:06.this advantage. Last month, I visited a Academy in Filton run by a

:50:07. > :50:14.teach first ambassador. I was struck by his passion when he described the

:50:15. > :50:19.links that they went to to attract as many disadvantaged peoples as

:50:20. > :50:28.possible. The determination to attract disadvantaged pupils is

:50:29. > :50:32.evidence of a school designed to drive social mobility. This shows

:50:33. > :50:47.what it is possible to achieve. Whether you look at Filton, Hackney

:50:48. > :50:53.school, Milton school, where 39% of the pupils are entered for the

:50:54. > :51:02.feedback suite of GCSEs, policies schools understand the importance of

:51:03. > :51:06.knowledge and teach well. Each of these schools has clear retains that

:51:07. > :51:11.and age understands the importance and age understands the importance

:51:12. > :51:16.of a strong approach to behaviour management. All serve disadvantaged

:51:17. > :51:19.communities, demonstrating that high academic and behavioural standards

:51:20. > :51:23.must not be the preserve of wealthy pupils in independent schools or

:51:24. > :51:29.socially selective comprehensive schools. We want to see this... Can

:51:30. > :51:40.I thank my honourable friend very much in. Isn't he demonstrating in

:51:41. > :51:43.his speech away the first part about reintroducing selection is a wreck

:51:44. > :51:48.every question where he is given the example of a number of hugely

:51:49. > :51:52.impressive schools with pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds who are

:51:53. > :51:56.achieving very, very high results. Wouldn't you agree that what want to

:51:57. > :52:01.see more schools like that and support more schools to achieve that

:52:02. > :52:05.rather than to say actually accept that schools can't always achieve

:52:06. > :52:13.that and we'll take pupils out and put them into a selective education?

:52:14. > :52:17.The purpose of the green paper we published in September is to ensure

:52:18. > :52:23.we are harnessing all the expertise and talent in this country. Whether

:52:24. > :52:27.it's universities, independent schools, faith schools, outstanding

:52:28. > :52:30.conference of schools, selective schools, to ensure we have more good

:52:31. > :52:36.school places. There are still problems we need to address.

:52:37. > :52:43.According to the Sutton trust, just 53% of eligible children take

:52:44. > :52:50.science GCSEs versus 69% of known every school meal eligible children.

:52:51. > :52:57.Those are the issues that we are trying to address and we are leaving

:52:58. > :52:59.no stone unturned. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are also addressing

:53:00. > :53:03.technical education. We are spending technical education. We are spending

:53:04. > :53:08.?500 million a year in improving this. We will deliver on these

:53:09. > :53:13.recommendations by the Lord Sainsbury review. The new T-Levels

:53:14. > :53:19.will replace 30,000 or so different qualifications. As the right

:53:20. > :53:28.honourable members argued, the country is changing fast and we must

:53:29. > :53:32.ensure that all pupils are given and education that gives them choice. We

:53:33. > :53:37.should all agree that social mobility should not be about whether

:53:38. > :53:43.a person starts but where they end up. Earlier I quoted... Or I would

:53:44. > :53:54.have quoted if I'd got to that part in my speech lines from a poem

:53:55. > :54:00.called Indexes. There is a new preschool focused on improving the

:54:01. > :54:06.lives of children in free schools. Every lunchtime, pupils recite from

:54:07. > :54:14.a pond that they have learned. Whilst I was there they recited

:54:15. > :54:19.Invictus. Part of the night that covers me, black as the pit from

:54:20. > :54:28.Paul DePaul, I thank whatever gods may be for my whole comparable soul.

:54:29. > :54:32.In the fell clutch of circumstance, I have not went under the

:54:33. > :54:38.bludgeoning of chance. My head is bloody but not unbowed. The question

:54:39. > :54:45.is as on the order paper. As many as is as on the order paper. As many as

:54:46. > :54:56.are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have

:54:57. > :55:05.it. We now come to motion number two. As many as are of the opinion,

:55:06. > :55:19.say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it. We now come to

:55:20. > :55:25.motion number three. Not moved. I beg to move that this has now

:55:26. > :55:37.adjourned. The question is that this has now adjourned. Can I add this

:55:38. > :55:54.distressing events. Can I say how upset I am to have to

:55:55. > :55:59.bring this matter to the attention of the house is not in it. I think

:56:00. > :56:07.members of Parliament should keep out of the way of planning

:56:08. > :56:09.applications. However, the conduct...