:00:00. > :00:00.most recently on the attack last Wednesday. We should not forget that
:00:00. > :00:08.day in day out emergency services work on our behalf and often put
:00:09. > :00:14.themselves in danger as a result. I have kept in touch as has my right
:00:15. > :00:17.honourable friend the Home Secretary with the security services and
:00:18. > :00:23.Metropolitan Police on the investigation taking place into the
:00:24. > :00:26.attack last week and I am looking forward to security arrangements and
:00:27. > :00:31.I can assure him they have the resources they need to carry out
:00:32. > :00:36.vital work. Of course we all pay tribute to the police for the work
:00:37. > :00:42.they do but there are some problems that between 2015 and 2018 there
:00:43. > :00:47.will be a real terms cut in central government funding to police forces
:00:48. > :00:50.of 330 million. Can the Prime Minister assure the house the police
:00:51. > :01:00.all over the country have the necessary resources to do the job? I
:01:01. > :01:05.would remind him that what we have done is protected that police budget
:01:06. > :01:10.and of course the former Shadow Home Secretary, his colleague, the right
:01:11. > :01:17.honourable member, prior to the... At the Labour Party conference said
:01:18. > :01:23.savings can be found. The police say 5-10% is just about doable. We have
:01:24. > :01:26.protected the police budget. I have been speaking to police forces and
:01:27. > :01:33.they are cleared the work they are doing has the resources they need.
:01:34. > :01:38.The Police Federation survey recently undertaken reveals that 55%
:01:39. > :01:45.of serving police officers say morale is low due to the way in
:01:46. > :01:51.which funding has been treated. Front line policing is vital in
:01:52. > :01:56.tackling crime and terrorism. Since 2010, there are 20,000 fewer police
:01:57. > :02:00.officers, 12,000 fewer on the front line. I asked the Prime Minister
:02:01. > :02:07.again, will she think again about the cuts and guaranteed policing on
:02:08. > :02:11.the front line will be protected so every community can be assured it
:02:12. > :02:19.has the officers it needs in their community? I said we have protected
:02:20. > :02:23.those police budgets including of course the precepts they raise
:02:24. > :02:30.locally. Let's think about what has happened since 2010. Since 2010 we
:02:31. > :02:34.have seen crime is traditionally measured by the independent crime
:02:35. > :02:41.survey falling by a third to a record low, and that is the work of
:02:42. > :02:46.hard-working officers up and down this country. They have been backed
:02:47. > :02:49.by this government. We have made them more accountable through
:02:50. > :02:53.directly elected Police and Crime Commissioners and there has been
:02:54. > :02:56.reform, including reform of the Police Federation that was
:02:57. > :03:00.necessary, but we have ensured police have resources to do their
:03:01. > :03:12.job and we see crime at a record low. The Royal air forces preparing
:03:13. > :03:18.to fly typhoons from my constituency to Romania, to support Nato allies
:03:19. > :03:23.on the border with Russia. This is as President Putin is locking up
:03:24. > :03:28.political opponents and crushing calls for democracy. Will my right
:03:29. > :03:32.honourable friend confirm that as we leave the EU, the United Kingdom
:03:33. > :03:37.will continue to lead Nato in defending this vital border, and
:03:38. > :03:47.will she paid tribute to the Armed Forces who safeguard our democracy
:03:48. > :03:52.at home and abroad? I am very happy to join my honourable friend in
:03:53. > :03:57.paying tribute to the men and women of our Armed Forces, they are the
:03:58. > :04:05.best in the world and they worked tirelessly to keep us safe and we
:04:06. > :04:09.open every gratitude. Our commitment to collective defence and security
:04:10. > :04:15.through Nato is as strong as ever. We will meet our pledge to spend 2%
:04:16. > :04:21.of GDP wand expense every year of the decade and we plan to spend 178
:04:22. > :04:25.billion on equipment. She referred to work done by the Royal Air Force
:04:26. > :04:31.in relation to Romania. With Nato we deploy a battalion to Estonia and
:04:32. > :04:38.squadron to Poland and I think that shows our commitment to our
:04:39. > :04:41.collective security and defence. We associate ourselves with the
:04:42. > :04:44.condolences of the Prime Minister and leader of the Labour Party and
:04:45. > :04:52.praise for the emergency and security services. After the
:04:53. > :04:57.appalling terrorist atrocity. Last year, the Prime Minister promised
:04:58. > :05:10.before she would trigger Article 50 on leaving the EU, she would secure
:05:11. > :05:15.a UK wide approach and agreement... Last year the Prime Minister did
:05:16. > :05:20.make that promise and promised there would be agreement with the
:05:21. > :05:24.governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland before triggering
:05:25. > :05:30.Article 50. The Prime Minister has now triggered Article 50 and she has
:05:31. > :05:38.done so without an agreement. There is no agreement. Why has she broken
:05:39. > :05:44.her promise and her word? I have been clear throughout and since the
:05:45. > :05:52.first visit that I made as Prime Minister to Edinburgh last July,
:05:53. > :05:55.which was we would work with the devolved administrations and develop
:05:56. > :06:00.a UK wide approach but in negotiations it would be a UK
:06:01. > :06:04.approach taken into the negotiations and it would be the United Kingdom
:06:05. > :06:08.government that took forward that position and I would remind him that
:06:09. > :06:22.Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. People will note the Prime
:06:23. > :06:26.Minister did not deny she would seek a UK wide approach and agreement
:06:27. > :06:32.with the governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and there
:06:33. > :06:36.is no agreement. The Scottish Government was elected with a higher
:06:37. > :06:40.percentage of the vote with a bigger electoral mandate than the UK
:06:41. > :06:46.Government. Yesterday the Scottish Parliament voted by 69 to 59 that
:06:47. > :06:54.people in Scotland should have a choice about their future. After the
:06:55. > :06:57.negotiations with the EU are concluded, there will be a period
:06:58. > :07:02.for democratic approval of the outcome. That choice will be
:07:03. > :07:07.exercised in this Parliament, in the European Parliament, and in 27
:07:08. > :07:13.member states of the EU. Given that everybody else will have a choice...
:07:14. > :07:24.Will the people of Scotland have a choice... ? I say to the right
:07:25. > :07:30.honourable gentleman that we are taking forward the views of the
:07:31. > :07:37.United Kingdom into the negotiations with the European Union on the
:07:38. > :07:49.United Kingdom exiting the European Union. The Scottish Nationalist
:07:50. > :07:54.party consistently talks... Order! This is unseemly heckling. You are a
:07:55. > :07:57.distinguished QC. You would not behave like that in the Scottish
:07:58. > :08:06.courts. You would be chucked out. Prime Minister. The SNP consistently
:08:07. > :08:11.talks about independence as the only subject they wish to talk about. I
:08:12. > :08:16.said to him and his colleagues that now is not the time to be talking
:08:17. > :08:25.about a second independence referendum. On today of all days, we
:08:26. > :08:35.should be coming together as a United Kingdom to get the best deal
:08:36. > :08:40.for Britain. Improving vocational and technical
:08:41. > :08:44.education is vital to closing our productivity gap so can the Prime
:08:45. > :08:48.Minister assure me vocational education will enjoy equal status
:08:49. > :08:52.with academic education so that as we leave the EU, our young people
:08:53. > :08:57.can be equipped to build the high skilled economy of the future? My
:08:58. > :09:04.honourable friend has raised an important issue. It is essential for
:09:05. > :09:09.young people we give vocational and technical education the right esteem
:09:10. > :09:14.and focus because it is essential in addressing the productivity gap. We
:09:15. > :09:19.want to deliver a world leading technical education system to create
:09:20. > :09:23.genuine options that are equal in esteem, two options for young people
:09:24. > :09:29.in esteem. In the budget, the Chancellor announced a significant
:09:30. > :09:34.package of investment to represent the most ambitious post-16 reform
:09:35. > :09:38.since the introduction of A-levels. We will invest an extra half ?1
:09:39. > :09:44.billion in Ingham's technical education and introduce maintenance
:09:45. > :09:50.loans or those studying high-level technical qualifications at
:09:51. > :09:55.institutes of technology. The Treasury Select Committee says that
:09:56. > :10:00.having to fill in a tax return every three months means that many smaller
:10:01. > :10:04.companies face disaster. The Federation of small business says
:10:05. > :10:10.the extra cost is likely to be annually ?2700 a year. This is
:10:11. > :10:18.another burden on business from this government. She got it wrong on
:10:19. > :10:19.national Insurance, is she going to backtrack now on tax returns, as
:10:20. > :10:27.well? Perhaps the honourable gentleman
:10:28. > :10:30.should have listened to the announcement the Chancellor made in
:10:31. > :10:34.the budget where he indicated he would be delaying the introduction
:10:35. > :10:39.of this for the smallest businesses below the VAT threshold for a year.
:10:40. > :10:42.But I think it is right that HMRC does try to move to a greater
:10:43. > :10:48.digitisation of the way in which it operates. I think that will enable
:10:49. > :10:51.it to give a better service to those people who are completing their
:10:52. > :10:57.forms, and we should always remember that aspect of what is being
:10:58. > :11:00.proposed. I welcome the additional money the Government has given for
:11:01. > :11:06.adult social care, but it is important we also look at long-term
:11:07. > :11:11.solutions for the. Will the Prime Minister look at issues with how the
:11:12. > :11:15.system works with Northampton county council and Northampton General
:11:16. > :11:22.Hospital? I say to my honourable friend but I'm grateful that he is
:11:23. > :11:26.welcome for the extra money, the ?2 billion going to social care and out
:11:27. > :11:31.by the Chancellor. This shows we have recognised the pressures and
:11:32. > :11:34.demands on social care, but it is also important that we ensure best
:11:35. > :11:39.practice is delivered across the whole of the country, it isn't just
:11:40. > :11:41.about money, so we are trying to find a long-term sustainable
:11:42. > :11:44.solution which will help local authorities to learn from each other
:11:45. > :11:47.and raise standards across the system, and we will bring forward
:11:48. > :11:51.proposals in a green paper later this year to put the state funded
:11:52. > :11:56.system on a more sustainable and long-term footing. As Home
:11:57. > :12:00.Secretary, the Prime Minister clearly didn't protect police
:12:01. > :12:07.budgets. Last week she told me four times, we have protected the schools
:12:08. > :12:14.budget. Does she still stand by that statement? We have protected schools
:12:15. > :12:21.budgets, and we are putting record funding into schools. Today, Mr
:12:22. > :12:26.Speaker, the Public Accounts Committee says the Department of
:12:27. > :12:30.Education that it does not seem to understand the pressures that
:12:31. > :12:36.schools are already under. And they went on to say that funding per
:12:37. > :12:41.pupil is reducing in real terms, and goes on to say schools budgets will
:12:42. > :12:51.be cut by ?3 billion, equivalent to 8%, by 2020. Is the Public Accounts
:12:52. > :12:57.Committee wrong on this? What we see over the course of this Parliament
:12:58. > :13:00.is ?230 billion going into our schools. But what matters is the
:13:01. > :13:06.quality of education that we see in our schools. 1.8 million more
:13:07. > :13:09.children in good or outstanding schools, and a policy from this
:13:10. > :13:14.Government to ensure that every child gets a good school plays. Mr
:13:15. > :13:20.Speaker, the daily experience of many parents who have children in
:13:21. > :13:25.schools is that they get letters from the schools asking for money.
:13:26. > :13:28.One parent, Elizabeth, wrote to me to say she has received a letter
:13:29. > :13:33.from her daughter's school asking for a monthly donation to top up the
:13:34. > :13:39.reduced funds that her school is receiving. This Government's cuts to
:13:40. > :13:42.schools are betraying a generation of our children. If the Prime
:13:43. > :13:48.Minister is right, then the parents are wrong, the teachers are wrong,
:13:49. > :13:54.the IFF is wrong, the National Audit Office is wrong, the education
:13:55. > :13:56.policy Institute is wrong and now the Public Accounts Committee, which
:13:57. > :14:01.includes eight Conservative members in it, is also wrong. So which
:14:02. > :14:06.organisation does back the Prime Minister's view on education
:14:07. > :14:10.spending in our schools? I would say to the right honourable gentleman
:14:11. > :14:14.that as I have just said to him, we said we would protect school
:14:15. > :14:17.funding, and we have. A real terms protection for the schools budget.
:14:18. > :14:24.We said we would protect the money following children into schools, and
:14:25. > :14:29.we have, it reaches ?42 billion as pupil numbers rise in 19/ 20. But it
:14:30. > :14:34.is also about the quality of education children are receiving.
:14:35. > :14:37.1.8 million more children in good or outstanding schools than under the
:14:38. > :14:42.Labour government. But I also say this, because time and time again,
:14:43. > :14:45.the gentleman stands up in PMQs and asks questions which would lead to
:14:46. > :14:50.more spending. Let's look at what he has done recently. On the 11th of
:14:51. > :14:56.January, more spending. On the 8th of February, more spending. On the
:14:57. > :15:01.22nd of February, more spending. On the first and the 8th of March, more
:15:02. > :15:06.spending. On the 15th and 22nd of March, more spending. Barely a PMQs
:15:07. > :15:12.goes by that he doesn't call for more public spending. When it comes
:15:13. > :15:16.to spending money that they haven't got, Labour simply can't help
:15:17. > :15:20.themselves. It's the same old Labour, spend today and give
:15:21. > :15:21.somebody else the Bill tomorrow. Well, we won't do that to the next
:15:22. > :15:37.generation. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure
:15:38. > :15:40.everyone in the House will want to join me in paying tribute to the
:15:41. > :15:45.thousands who worked in munitions factories in both world wars. Often
:15:46. > :15:48.in very dangerous conditions. And they produced a vital equipment for
:15:49. > :15:51.the Armed Forces that helped us to victory. I'm sure my honourable
:15:52. > :15:56.friend will recognise that for practical reasons it is not possible
:15:57. > :15:59.to pursue individual awards, but I know that the Department for
:16:00. > :16:02.Business would be happy to work with him to look at further ways to
:16:03. > :16:07.recognise the collective effort of former munitions workers. I thank my
:16:08. > :16:10.right honourable friend for that answer. These ladies found that the
:16:11. > :16:17.chemicals in the shells turned their skins yellow, and they were
:16:18. > :16:19.nicknamed canary girls. I know my right honourable friend is
:16:20. > :16:22.exceptionally busy at the moment, but could she find just a few
:16:23. > :16:26.moments in her diary to meet me and some of these canary girls to
:16:27. > :16:30.recognise their service? I would be very happy to do that. I would be
:16:31. > :16:35.very happy to meet some canary girls. As I said, they did work
:16:36. > :16:39.which was vital to the war effort. They did work which in one sense was
:16:40. > :16:42.absolutely routine, but in another sense was extremely dangerous, and I
:16:43. > :16:49.think we should recognise the efforts that they put in. Thank you,
:16:50. > :16:55.Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister will be aware that the Welsh Labour
:16:56. > :17:00.government has established a children's funeral fund. Many
:17:01. > :17:03.leading funeral providers have also indicated that there will be no
:17:04. > :17:08.charges for children and young people's funerals. I know the Prime
:17:09. > :17:12.Minister is a compassionate woman, and I know she understands the
:17:13. > :17:18.importance of a children's funeral fund. Will she agree to work with me
:17:19. > :17:23.to establish this fund to bring some comfort to bereaved parents in their
:17:24. > :17:26.darkest hour? I pay tribute to the honourable lady who has been
:17:27. > :17:32.campaigning tirelessly on this issue, and obviously it is not just
:17:33. > :17:34.a passionate campaign, but she has spoken on many occasions moving in
:17:35. > :17:40.this House about her personal experience which she has brought to
:17:41. > :17:44.bear on this issue. I welcome the decision taken by the co-operative
:17:45. > :17:47.funeral company to waive the fees on this. There is some financial
:17:48. > :17:51.support available, we are looking at this issue on the problems faced by
:17:52. > :17:55.parents, and at what more can be done through a cross government
:17:56. > :17:58.piece of work, and I ask the Minister for the Cabinet office who
:17:59. > :18:03.is meeting on that piece of work to meet with us and talk about the
:18:04. > :18:07.idea. As the Prime Minister will know, the budget gave an extra ?200
:18:08. > :18:10.million to the Welsh Labour government in order to provide
:18:11. > :18:14.business rate relief. Will the Prime Minister agree with myself and the
:18:15. > :18:18.leader of Monmouthshire council that Welsh Labour must now commit to
:18:19. > :18:22.spending that money on supporting Welsh businesses and giving the same
:18:23. > :18:28.level of support that has been provided in England by this
:18:29. > :18:32.conservative Government? I say to my honourable friend he is absolutely
:18:33. > :18:34.right. As he said at the budget, my right honourable friend the
:18:35. > :18:40.Chancellor announced a ?200 million boost to the Welsh budget. They will
:18:41. > :18:43.be able to use that money to support their own priorities, but the people
:18:44. > :18:46.of Wales can send a clear signal about these priorities by voting for
:18:47. > :18:51.Conservative councillors like Peter Fox on the 4th of May. And I have to
:18:52. > :18:56.say it is the UK Government actions to support working families
:18:57. > :19:02.throughout the country that will make sure Wales benefits. The
:19:03. > :19:06.Foreign Secretary jury be EU referendum campaign urged people to,
:19:07. > :19:12.and I quote, take back control of huge sums of money, ?350 million per
:19:13. > :19:18.week, and spend it on our priorities such as the NHS. The Prime Minister
:19:19. > :19:23.will trigger article 50 today. Can the Prime Minister confirm precisely
:19:24. > :19:26.when she wants to fulfil the promise made by her Cabinet colleagues who
:19:27. > :19:34.is sitting on the front page smirking at the British public?
:19:35. > :19:56.Order, order, Boris is sitting perfectly comfortably, there is an
:19:57. > :19:59.air of repose about the fellow! Prime Minister.
:20:00. > :20:05.I am very happy to tell the honourable lady that when this
:20:06. > :20:08.country leaves the European Union, we will have control of our budget
:20:09. > :20:15.and we will decide how that money is spent. With modification, schools in
:20:16. > :20:18.my constituency welcome the National funding formula, and given the
:20:19. > :20:23.Leader of the Opposition's intervention, I hope my next
:20:24. > :20:28.question doesn't land me on the naughty step, but given that
:20:29. > :20:32.Stockport schools and other schools have been at the bottom of the
:20:33. > :20:37.funding pile for years, and have less scope for efficiencies, would
:20:38. > :20:42.my right honourable friend consider giving immediate support to them? As
:20:43. > :20:47.my honourable friend is saying, what we are doing is aiming to end the
:20:48. > :20:52.postcode lottery of schools funding, and schools funding is at a record
:20:53. > :20:57.high. In relation to the minimum funding level, as I have said
:20:58. > :21:00.before, the DFE have heard representations on the issue on this
:21:01. > :21:05.national funding formula and will be considering those. There have been a
:21:06. > :21:10.lot of responses to that, but it is a historic and complex reform but
:21:11. > :21:14.there has been general agreement for many years that reform is needed, we
:21:15. > :21:21.want to get this right which is why we are carefully considering it.
:21:22. > :21:25.After nine months of this Prime Minister's approach to Brexit,
:21:26. > :21:29.Northern Ireland is deadlocked, the Welsh are alienated, Scotland is
:21:30. > :21:35.going for a referendum, the English are split down the middle and Brexit
:21:36. > :21:40.MPs are walking out of Commons committees because they don't like
:21:41. > :21:42.home truths. Has the Prime Minister considered in terms of invoking
:21:43. > :22:01.Article 50 that now is not the time? What the UK Government is doing in
:22:02. > :22:04.invoking article 50 is putting into practice the Democratic vote of the
:22:05. > :22:09.British people on the 23rd of June last year in a referendum. There was
:22:10. > :22:14.a referendum in 2014 in Scotland when the Scottish people voted to
:22:15. > :22:16.remain part of the United Kingdom. I suggest The right honourable
:22:17. > :22:24.gentleman and his colleagues put that into practice! Mr Speaker,
:22:25. > :22:29.three quarters of my constituent Umag voted to leave the European
:22:30. > :22:33.Union. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that as she triggers article
:22:34. > :22:38.50, it marks a watershed moment, not only for this country's control of
:22:39. > :22:42.immigration and our sovereignty, but also for listening to the views of
:22:43. > :22:50.people who were forgotten for far too long? I absolutely agree with my
:22:51. > :22:58.honourable friend. Not only are we putting into place the views of the
:22:59. > :23:02.British people as set out in that referendum on the 23rd of June last
:23:03. > :23:06.year, but crucially that was not just a vote about leaving the EU. It
:23:07. > :23:10.was a vote about changing this country for the future, and this
:23:11. > :23:13.Government has a clear plan for Britain that will change this
:23:14. > :23:17.country, that will see us with a more global outlook, a stronger
:23:18. > :23:29.economy, a fairer society and a more united nation. The people expect the
:23:30. > :23:33.Prime Minister to follow her party's manifesto and abide by a majority
:23:34. > :23:39.vote of this Parliament. So why does she say that the First Minister of
:23:40. > :23:48.Scotland should do the opposite? What I say is that at this point in
:23:49. > :23:57.time Dodge at this point in time as we face this historic moment of
:23:58. > :24:03.facing Article 50 and this country's relationship with the European
:24:04. > :24:09.Union, now is the time for us to pull together and not, part. On
:24:10. > :24:13.Friday, thousands of people will be up and down this country raising
:24:14. > :24:23.funds and awareness of brain tumour research. Many of these people will
:24:24. > :24:29.know people someone who have suffered from a brain tumour. It is
:24:30. > :24:33.a bigger cancer killer of children and adults under 40. Will the Prime
:24:34. > :24:36.Minister join me in commending all these people raising awareness and
:24:37. > :24:41.funds and see what more we can do to raise funding for brain tumour
:24:42. > :24:45.research? This is an important area, and I believe in this area the UK
:24:46. > :24:49.does have a good record of research on brain tumours, and that is
:24:50. > :24:54.important, but he is absolutely right. The people who are raising
:24:55. > :24:57.funds for this important cause should be commended, as he says many
:24:58. > :25:01.of them will have had personal experience in one way or another of
:25:02. > :25:05.brain tumours, and I think it is important that we recognise that
:25:06. > :25:10.there are many killers out there which don't often receive the
:25:11. > :25:12.publicity and support of others, and we should recognise their
:25:13. > :25:18.importance, and commend those who are raising funds.
:25:19. > :25:25.Can the Prime Minister said what she is doing to ensure national and
:25:26. > :25:30.local government prioritise the purchasing and buying of British
:25:31. > :25:40.goods and services, although the Home Secretary on police vehicles,
:25:41. > :25:44.does not give us cause for optimism. We have been encouraging the
:25:45. > :25:49.procurement of British goods and services. He asked what we can do
:25:50. > :25:55.for local authorities, if people want local authorities to take their
:25:56. > :26:01.best interests to heart, they should vote Conservative. Can I ask... I
:26:02. > :26:08.congratulate the Prime Minister and invoking Article 50. Does she agree
:26:09. > :26:13.this needs to be the end of the phoney war and posturing and focus
:26:14. > :26:16.now on the detail for every industry, centre and community to
:26:17. > :26:24.get a bespoke deal we can all get behind? I agree with my honourable
:26:25. > :26:28.friend. Now is the time to come together and be united across this
:26:29. > :26:36.House and country to ensure we work for the best deal for the United
:26:37. > :26:40.Kingdom and best future for us all. The Prime Minister has rightly
:26:41. > :26:44.emphasised her determination to deliver for all constituent parts of
:26:45. > :26:48.the United Kingdom on this historic day and while others are content to
:26:49. > :26:53.moan, we want to see that delivery happen and we are confident she will
:26:54. > :26:58.make that happen. In Northern Ireland, where some have walked away
:26:59. > :27:02.from responsibilities in terms of devolution, we want devolution up
:27:03. > :27:07.and running to have a functioning government and we have set no
:27:08. > :27:12.preconditions. If others continue to stay away from devolution and walk
:27:13. > :27:15.away, will she pledged to work more closely with those of us in this
:27:16. > :27:21.House to defend and protect the interests of Northern Ireland? We
:27:22. > :27:25.say that we all want to work together to ensure we can protect
:27:26. > :27:30.the best interests of Northern Ireland. I think that ensuring we
:27:31. > :27:34.have strong devolved government in Northern Ireland is important for
:27:35. > :27:38.the future and so we can build on the significant progress made in
:27:39. > :27:42.recent years for the people of Northern Ireland and I urge all
:27:43. > :27:47.parties to come to the talks with a view to finding a way through so
:27:48. > :27:52.that Northern Ireland once again can be restored to devolved government.
:27:53. > :27:58.With the Prime Minister agree social media companies need to take action
:27:59. > :28:01.to remove extremist and hate material from platforms and to foot
:28:02. > :28:08.the Bill for the police who are currently doing their dirty work at
:28:09. > :28:12.the taxpayers' expense? This question of working with the
:28:13. > :28:16.companies to ensure extremist material is removed as quickly as
:28:17. > :28:21.possible is one that is not new. Through the counterterrorism
:28:22. > :28:27.internet referral unit we have the process to enable the police to take
:28:28. > :28:32.material down. 250,000 pieces of material have been taken down since
:28:33. > :28:37.2010 and there has been increase in that activity in the last couple of
:28:38. > :28:41.years. I know the Home Secretary will be meeting companies this week
:28:42. > :28:47.to talk to them about this important issue. We do not want extremist
:28:48. > :28:50.material on the internet, what we want to see is companies taking
:28:51. > :28:58.action to remove material encouraging hate and division. Late
:28:59. > :29:03.on Saturday night, a massive explosion devastated new ferry in my
:29:04. > :29:08.constituency. We are thinking of those who were hurt. It is a miracle
:29:09. > :29:13.more people were not injured. The community faces dereliction. All the
:29:14. > :29:17.Prime Minister join with me in thanking all of those who looked
:29:18. > :29:21.after my community over the weekend and recent days, and will she
:29:22. > :29:27.arrange a meeting with the Secretary of State who can discuss how the
:29:28. > :29:33.government can help us to rebuild New Ferry. I am happy to do those
:29:34. > :29:39.things. I commend and thank all of those who worked hard in the
:29:40. > :29:44.emergency services and others to support her community when this
:29:45. > :29:48.devastating explosion took place. That work will continue. There will
:29:49. > :29:53.be support I am sure being given to the community in the future and I am
:29:54. > :29:58.happy to ask the Secretary of State to meet her and discuss how that
:29:59. > :30:06.community can be rebuilt and overcome the impact of this
:30:07. > :30:20.explosion. Order. Statement, the Prime Minister.
:30:21. > :30:25.Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, the government acts on the democratic
:30:26. > :30:32.will of the British people. It acts on the clear and convincing position
:30:33. > :30:36.of this House. A few minutes ago in Brussels, the United Kingdom's
:30:37. > :30:42.permanent representative to the EU handed a letter to the president of
:30:43. > :30:47.the European Council on my behalf, confirming the government decision
:30:48. > :30:51.to invoke Article 50. The Article 50 process is now under way and in
:30:52. > :30:58.accordance with the wishes of the British people the United Kingdom is
:30:59. > :31:04.leaving the European Union. This is an historic moment from which there
:31:05. > :31:08.can be no turning back. Britain is leaving the European Union. We are
:31:09. > :31:14.going to make our own decisions and laws. We are going to take control
:31:15. > :31:18.of things that matter most to us and we are going to take this
:31:19. > :31:21.opportunity to build a stronger, fairer Britain, a country our
:31:22. > :31:28.children and grandchildren are proud to call home. That is our ambition
:31:29. > :31:35.and our opportunity. That is what this government is determined to do.
:31:36. > :31:39.Mr Speaker, at moments like these, great turning points in our national
:31:40. > :31:45.story, the choices we make to find the character of our nation. We can
:31:46. > :31:49.choose to save the task ahead is too great, we can choose to turn our
:31:50. > :31:53.face to the past and believe it cannot be done, or we can look
:31:54. > :32:00.forward with optimism and hope and to believe in the power of the
:32:01. > :32:09.British spirit. I choose to believe in Britain and that our best days
:32:10. > :32:14.lie ahead. I do so because I am confident we have vision and plan to
:32:15. > :32:20.use this moment to build a better Britain. For leaving the EU presents
:32:21. > :32:25.us with a unique opportunity. It is this generation's chance to shape a
:32:26. > :32:29.brighter future, a chance to step back and ask ourselves what kind of
:32:30. > :32:37.country we want to be. My answer is clear. I want the United Kingdom to
:32:38. > :32:41.emerge from this period of change stronger, fairer, more united and
:32:42. > :32:47.more outward looking than ever before. I want us to be a secure,
:32:48. > :32:50.prosperous, tolerant country, a magnet for international talent and
:32:51. > :32:55.are home to the pioneers and innovators who will shape the world
:32:56. > :33:02.ahead. I want us to be a truly global Britain. The best friend and
:33:03. > :33:09.neighbour to our European partners, a country that reaches beyond the
:33:10. > :33:13.borders of Europe. Can I apologise for interrupting. Mr Boswell, calm
:33:14. > :33:24.yourself, you have to learn to behave in a statement --
:33:25. > :33:30.statesman-like fashion. I want all colleagues the chance to question
:33:31. > :33:33.the Prime Minister. This is an important statement and it is
:33:34. > :33:43.reasonable to expect the Prime Minister gets a courteous hearing.
:33:44. > :33:48.Mr Speaker, I want us to be a truly global Britain, the best friend and
:33:49. > :33:51.neighbour to our European partners that a country that reaches beyond
:33:52. > :33:56.the borders of Europe, a country that goes into the world to build
:33:57. > :34:02.relationships with new friends and allies alike. That is why I have set
:34:03. > :34:07.out a clear and ambitious plan for the negotiations ahead, a plan for a
:34:08. > :34:11.deep and special partnership between Britain and the European Union, of
:34:12. > :34:16.values, a partnership of interests, a partnership based on cooperation
:34:17. > :34:20.in areas such as security and economic affairs, and a partnership
:34:21. > :34:26.that works in the best interests of the United Kingdom, European Union
:34:27. > :34:34.and wider world. Perhaps now more than ever the world needs the
:34:35. > :34:55.liberal democratic values of Europe. Values... Perhaps...
:34:56. > :35:05.Perhaps now more than ever the world needs the liberal democratic values
:35:06. > :35:10.of Europe, values the United Kingdom shares and that is why while we are
:35:11. > :35:15.leaving the institutions of the European Union, we are not leaving
:35:16. > :35:18.Europe, we will remain a close friend and ally, we would be a
:35:19. > :35:24.committed partner and play our part to ensure Europe is able to protect
:35:25. > :35:29.its values and defend itself from security threats and we will do all
:35:30. > :35:33.we can to help the European Union prosper and succeed. In a letter
:35:34. > :35:37.delivered to resident Donald Tusk today, copies of which I have placed
:35:38. > :35:42.in the library, I have been cleared the deep and special partnership we
:35:43. > :35:46.seek is in the best interests of the United Kingdom and European Union. I
:35:47. > :35:50.have been clear we will work constructively in a spirit of
:35:51. > :35:55.sincere cooperation to bring this partnership into being. I have been
:35:56. > :35:59.clear we should seek to agree the terms of this future partnership
:36:00. > :36:04.alongside those of our withdrawal within the next two years. I am
:36:05. > :36:09.ambitious for Britain and the objectives set out for these
:36:10. > :36:13.negotiations remain. We will deliver certainty wherever possible so that
:36:14. > :36:19.business, the public sector and everybody has as much clarity as we
:36:20. > :36:25.can provide. Tomorrow we will publish a White Paper confirming our
:36:26. > :36:29.plans to convert it into British law so that everyone knows where they
:36:30. > :36:34.stand. It is why I have been clear the government will put the final
:36:35. > :36:38.deal agreed to a vote in both houses of parliament before it comes into
:36:39. > :36:41.force. We will take control of our laws and bring an end to the
:36:42. > :36:46.jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Britain. Leaving the
:36:47. > :36:51.European Union will mean our laws will be made in Westminster,
:36:52. > :36:56.Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, and those laws will be interpreted by
:36:57. > :37:02.judges not in Luxembourg, but in courts across this country. We will
:37:03. > :37:10.strengthen the union of the four nations that comprise our United
:37:11. > :37:14.Kingdom. We will negotiate as one United Kingdom, taking account of
:37:15. > :37:19.the specific interests of every nation and region of the UK and when
:37:20. > :37:23.it comes to the powers we take back from Europe, we will consult on
:37:24. > :37:27.which powers should reside in Westminster and which should be
:37:28. > :37:31.passed on to the devolved administrations. No decision
:37:32. > :37:36.currently taken by the devolved administrations will be removed from
:37:37. > :37:38.them and it is the expectation of the government the devolved
:37:39. > :37:42.administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will see a sick
:37:43. > :37:47.that could increase in decision-making power as a result of
:37:48. > :37:51.this process. We want to maintain the common travel area with the
:37:52. > :37:56.Republic of Ireland, there shall be no return to the borders of the
:37:57. > :38:00.past. We will control immigration so we continue to attract the brightest
:38:01. > :38:05.and best to work and study in Britain, but manage the process so
:38:06. > :38:09.that our immigration system serves the national interest. We seek to
:38:10. > :38:13.guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in Britain and the rights of
:38:14. > :38:19.British nationals in member states as early as we can. That is set out
:38:20. > :38:25.clearly in the letter as an early priority for the talks ahead. We
:38:26. > :38:29.will ensure workers' rights are protected and maintained and under
:38:30. > :38:33.my leadership not only with the government protect the rights of
:38:34. > :38:37.workers, but we will build on them. We will pursue an ambitious free
:38:38. > :38:42.trade agreement with the European Union that allows for the freest
:38:43. > :38:45.trading goods and services between Britain and the EU member states.
:38:46. > :38:50.That gives British companies the maximum freedom to trade with and
:38:51. > :38:54.operate within European markets and let European businesses do the same
:38:55. > :38:59.in Britain, because European leaders have said many times we cannot
:39:00. > :39:04.cherry pick and remain members of the single market without accepting
:39:05. > :39:08.the four freedoms that are indivisible. We respect that
:39:09. > :39:12.position and as accepting those freedoms is incompatible with the
:39:13. > :39:18.expressed will of the British people, we will no longer be members
:39:19. > :39:22.of the single market. We will make sure that we can strike trade
:39:23. > :39:26.agreements with countries from outside the European Union. Because
:39:27. > :39:31.important though trade with the EU is and will remain, it is clear the
:39:32. > :39:36.UK needs to increase significantly its trade with the fastest-growing
:39:37. > :39:41.export markets in the world. We hope to continue to collaborate with
:39:42. > :39:46.European partners in science, education, research and technology,
:39:47. > :39:50.said the UK is one of the best places for science and innovation
:39:51. > :40:00.and we seek cooperation with our European partners in important areas
:40:01. > :40:02.such as crime, terrorism and foreign affairs and it is our aim to deliver
:40:03. > :40:05.a smoother quarterly Brexit, reaching agreement about future
:40:06. > :40:10.partnership by the time the Article 50 process has concluded and moving
:40:11. > :40:14.into a process of implementation in which Britain, EU institutions and
:40:15. > :40:19.member states prepare for the new arrangements that will exist between
:40:20. > :40:23.us. We understand that there will be consequences for the UK of leaving
:40:24. > :40:27.the EU. We know we will lose influence...
:40:28. > :40:33.We know that we will lose influence over the rules that affect the
:40:34. > :40:37.European economy. We know that UK companies that trade with the EU
:40:38. > :40:42.will have to align with rules agreed by institutions of which we are no
:40:43. > :40:47.longer part. Just as we do in other overseas markets. And we accept
:40:48. > :40:52.that. However, we approach these talks constructively, respectfully
:40:53. > :40:55.and in a spirit of Cisse Corporation, for it is in the
:40:56. > :41:00.interest of both the UK and the European Union that we use this
:41:01. > :41:04.process to deliver our objectives in a fair and orderly manner. Is it is
:41:05. > :41:06.in the interests of both the United Kingdom and the European Union that
:41:07. > :41:11.there should be as little disruption as possible, and it is in the
:41:12. > :41:15.interests of both the United Kingdom and the European Union that Europe
:41:16. > :41:20.should remain strong, prosperous and capable of projecting its values in
:41:21. > :41:23.the world. At a time when the growth of global trade is slowing and there
:41:24. > :41:29.are signs the protectionist instincts are on the rise in many
:41:30. > :41:33.parts of the world, Europe has a responsibility to stand up for free
:41:34. > :41:38.trade in interest of all our citizens. With Europe's security
:41:39. > :41:43.more fragile today than at any time since the end of the Cold War,
:41:44. > :41:47.weakening our Corporation and failing to stand up for European
:41:48. > :41:51.values would be a costly mistake. Our vote to leave the EU was no
:41:52. > :41:55.rejection of the values we share as fellow Europeans. As a fellow
:41:56. > :41:59.European country, we will continue to play our part in promoting and
:42:00. > :42:05.supporting those values during the negotiations and once they are done.
:42:06. > :42:10.We will continue to be reliable partners, willing allies and close
:42:11. > :42:13.friends. We want to continue to buy goods and services from the EU and
:42:14. > :42:18.sell them hours. We want to trade with them as freely as possible, and
:42:19. > :42:21.work together to make sure we are all safer, more secure and more
:42:22. > :42:25.prosperous through continued friendship. Indeed in an
:42:26. > :42:29.increasingly unstable world, we must continue to forge the closest
:42:30. > :42:33.possible security cooperation to keep our people safe. We face the
:42:34. > :42:38.same global threats from terrorism and extremism. That message was only
:42:39. > :42:43.reinforced by the Borren to tack on Westminster Bridge and this place
:42:44. > :42:47.last week. -- the abhorrent attack. So there is no reason why they
:42:48. > :42:52.should not be a special partnership between the UK and the EU that works
:42:53. > :42:57.for us all. Mr Speaker, I know that this is a day of celebration for
:42:58. > :43:00.some disappointment for others. The referendum last June was divisive at
:43:01. > :43:05.times. Not everyone shared the same point of view or voted the same way.
:43:06. > :43:09.The arguments on both sides were passionate. But Mr Speaker, when I
:43:10. > :43:13.sit around the negotiating table in the months ahead, I will represent
:43:14. > :43:18.every person in the United Kingdom, young and old, rich and poor, city,
:43:19. > :43:22.town, country and all the villages and hamlets in between. And yes,
:43:23. > :43:27.those EU nationals who have made this country their home. And it is
:43:28. > :43:30.my fierce determination to get the right deal for every single person
:43:31. > :43:34.in this country. For as we face the opportunities ahead of us on this
:43:35. > :43:41.momentum journey, our shared values, interests and ambitions can and must
:43:42. > :43:45.bring us together. We all want to see a Britain that is stronger than
:43:46. > :43:50.it is today. We all want a country that is fairer so that everyone has
:43:51. > :43:53.the chance to succeed. We all want a nation that is safe and secure for
:43:54. > :43:57.our children and grandchildren. We all want to live in a truly global
:43:58. > :44:01.Britain that gets out and build relationships with old friends and
:44:02. > :44:06.new allies around the world. These are the ambitions of this Government
:44:07. > :44:10.was my plan for Britain, ambitions that unite us so we are no longer
:44:11. > :44:15.defined by the vote we cast but by our determination to make a success
:44:16. > :44:20.of the result. We are one great union of people and nations with a
:44:21. > :44:25.proud history and a bright future. And now that the decision to leave
:44:26. > :44:29.has been made and the process is under way, it is time to come
:44:30. > :44:34.together. For this great national moment needs a great national
:44:35. > :44:39.effort. An effort to shape a stronger future for Britain. So let
:44:40. > :44:45.us do so together. Let us come together and work together. Let us
:44:46. > :44:49.together choose to believe in Britain with optimism and hope. For
:44:50. > :44:53.if we do, we can make the most of the opportunities ahead. We can
:44:54. > :44:59.together make a success of this moment. And we can together will
:45:00. > :45:02.they stronger, fairer, better Britain, a Britain our children and
:45:03. > :45:03.grandchildren are proud to call home. I commend this statement to
:45:04. > :45:16.the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like
:45:17. > :45:23.to thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy of her statement. Today
:45:24. > :45:27.we embark on the country's most important negotiations in modern
:45:28. > :45:30.times. The British people made the decision to leave the European
:45:31. > :45:36.Union, and Labour respect that decision. The next steps along this
:45:37. > :45:40.journey are the most crucial. If the Prime Minister is to unite the
:45:41. > :45:46.country as she says she aims to do, the Government needs to listen,
:45:47. > :45:55.consult and represent the whole country, not just the hardline Tory
:45:56. > :45:58.ideologues on our own benches. Britain is going to change as a
:45:59. > :46:05.result of leaving the European Union. The question is, how? There
:46:06. > :46:06.are Conservatives who want to use Brexit to turn this country into a
:46:07. > :46:21.low-wage tax havens. Labour is determined to invest in a
:46:22. > :46:25.high skill, high-tech, high wage future, to rebuild and transform
:46:26. > :46:32.Britain, so that no one and no community is left behind. Mr
:46:33. > :46:35.Speaker, the direction the Prime Minister is threatening to take this
:46:36. > :46:42.country in is both a reckless and damaging. And Labour will not give
:46:43. > :46:47.this Government a free hand to use Brexit to attack rights, protections
:46:48. > :46:52.and cut services, or create a tax dodgers' paradise. So let me be
:46:53. > :47:00.clear, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister says that no deal is better
:47:01. > :47:08.than a bad deal. But the reality is, no deal is a bad deal. Less than a
:47:09. > :47:15.year ago, the Treasury estimated that leaving the European Union on
:47:16. > :47:26.World Trade Organisation terms would lead to a 7.5% fall in our GDP. And
:47:27. > :47:31.?45 billion lost in tax receipts. Has the Treasury updated those
:47:32. > :47:36.figures, or do they still stand? If updated, can they be published? If
:47:37. > :47:43.not, what deal could be worse than those consequences of no deal? It
:47:44. > :47:47.would be a national failure of historic proportions if the Prime
:47:48. > :47:55.Minister comes back from Brussels without having secured protection
:47:56. > :47:57.for jobs and living standards. So we will use every Parliamentary
:47:58. > :48:05.opportunity to ensure this Government is held to account at
:48:06. > :48:09.every stage of the negotiations. Mr Speaker, we all have an interest in
:48:10. > :48:14.ensuring the Prime Minister gets the best deal for this country. To
:48:15. > :48:19.safeguard jobs, living standards, we do need full access to the single
:48:20. > :48:24.market. The Secretary of State for exiting the EU seems to agree on
:48:25. > :48:29.this. He stated in this House on the 24th of January the Government plan
:48:30. > :48:34.is, and I quote, a comprehensive free trade agreement and a
:48:35. > :48:40.comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits
:48:41. > :48:45.as we have. So that is what they pledged. So will the Prime Minister
:48:46. > :48:49.confirmed today that she intends to deliver a trade and customs
:48:50. > :48:57.agreement with the exact same benefits? The same goes for
:48:58. > :49:01.protecting workers' right and environmental standards, protecting
:49:02. > :49:04.Britain's nations and regions, protecting Britain's financial
:49:05. > :49:11.sector and services and making sure there is no return to a hard border
:49:12. > :49:16.in Northern Ireland. And when, Mr Speaker, does she expect to be able
:49:17. > :49:21.to guarantee the rights of all those EU nationals who live, work and make
:49:22. > :49:29.such a massive and welcome contribution to this country? And
:49:30. > :49:32.for those British and is who live in all parts of the European Union,
:49:33. > :49:43.including guaranteeing that they were a pensions will not be frozen
:49:44. > :49:47.post-Brexit. Brexit would be a huge task for any Government. But so far
:49:48. > :49:52.they seem utterly complacent about the scale of the task ahead. The
:49:53. > :49:56.Government Ministers cannot make up their minds about the real
:49:57. > :50:00.objective. The Foreign Secretary, he is here today, said in October, our
:50:01. > :50:08.policy is having our cake and eating it. How apposite from the Foreign
:50:09. > :50:13.Secretary. Today, the Chancellor on BBC Radio 4 said, we can't have our
:50:14. > :50:19.cake and eat it. Maybe they should get together and talk about it.
:50:20. > :50:22.These at one level Mr Speaker might seem like a flippant exchanges from
:50:23. > :50:28.Ministers, but they do reflect serious differences about Britain's
:50:29. > :50:34.negotiating aims. The Government must speak with a united voice.
:50:35. > :50:39.However, the Foreign Secretary is the same man who promised our
:50:40. > :50:46.National Health Service ?350 million a week once we left the EU. Now he
:50:47. > :50:52.believes that leaving the EU without a deal would be perfectly OK. It
:50:53. > :50:57.would not be perfectly OK, it would damage our economy and people's
:50:58. > :51:02.living standards. Will the Prime Minister confirmed that she rejects
:51:03. > :51:07.such complacency? Labour set out our tests for this Government 's Brexit
:51:08. > :51:12.negotiations, and we will use all means possible to make sure we hold
:51:13. > :51:15.the Government to this word. An full access to the single market, on
:51:16. > :51:19.protecting Britain from being dragged into a race for the bottom,
:51:20. > :51:24.and ensuring our future relationship with the European Union is strong
:51:25. > :51:27.and cooperative. A relationship where we can work together to bring
:51:28. > :51:33.prosperity and peace to our continent. If the Prime Minister can
:51:34. > :51:37.deliver aid Eildon meets our tests, that will be fine, we will backfire.
:51:38. > :51:42.More than ever, Britain needs a Government that will deliver for the
:51:43. > :51:45.whole country, not just a few, and that is the ultimate test of the
:51:46. > :51:51.Brexit deal, that the Prime Minister must now secure. I'm grateful to the
:51:52. > :52:11.right honourable gentleman. course we now enter the formal
:52:12. > :52:15.process of negotiation. It does seem the message he sent today has not
:52:16. > :52:20.got through to the whole of his front bench. I understand of the
:52:21. > :52:24.Cabinet met his shadow international trade Secretary tweeted a photo of
:52:25. > :52:28.me signing the letter, claiming I was signing away our country's
:52:29. > :52:31.future. I'm afraid that's what we see from Labour all too often,
:52:32. > :52:38.talking down Britain, desperate for the negotiations to fail and out of
:52:39. > :52:42.touch with ordinary working people. He's referred to the tests which
:52:43. > :52:45.I'll come onto. He asked me specifically about EU nationals. I
:52:46. > :52:51.have expressly referred to this in the letter to President Tusk and
:52:52. > :52:54.made it clear that I would hope we could deal with this issue of EU
:52:55. > :53:01.nationals here and UK nationals in other member states at as early as
:53:02. > :53:06.possible stage in the negotiations. I believe there is goodwill on both
:53:07. > :53:08.sides to do that. He mentioned the Labour Party tests which they've set
:53:09. > :53:13.out for negotiations. I've been looking at them. There are
:53:14. > :53:17.principles that the government has time and time again said we are
:53:18. > :53:20.determined to meet. He asks will the final deal ensure a strong and
:53:21. > :53:25.collaborative future with the EU. Yes. In my letter to President Tusk
:53:26. > :53:30.that's exactly what I set out our intention is to be. Will it deliver
:53:31. > :53:34.the same benefits we have? We've been clear that we want to get the
:53:35. > :53:42.best possible deal and free and frictionless trade. Will the deal
:53:43. > :53:47.protect national security? Yes. Will the deal deliver for all regions and
:53:48. > :53:51.nations of the UK? We've been very clear that we are taking all nations
:53:52. > :53:56.and regions into account as I said in a letter to President Tusk. As I
:53:57. > :54:01.said earlier in answer to questions in PMQs we expect that as powers are
:54:02. > :54:05.repatriated devolved administrations will see a significant increase in
:54:06. > :54:11.decision-making. His fifth test was Will the deal defend rights and
:54:12. > :54:15.protect from a race to the bottom? We've been very clear that workers'
:54:16. > :54:17.rights will be protected, it is not something up for negotiation under
:54:18. > :54:24.this government. He should perhaps listen to his own Mayor of London
:54:25. > :54:27.who has said" to give credit to the government, I do not think they want
:54:28. > :54:35.to change workers' rights. There has been some anxiety, I have seen no
:54:36. > :54:39.evidence that it is their aspiration or something they want to do". But
:54:40. > :54:42.there is a sixth test the Labour Party has set out which I don't
:54:43. > :54:45.think the honourable gentleman specifically mentioned and perhaps
:54:46. > :54:49.that is because of confusion in the Labour Party because the sixth test
:54:50. > :54:53.is will the deal ensure fair management of migration? What we see
:54:54. > :54:57.on that is a confused picture from the Labour Party. The Shadow Home
:54:58. > :55:02.Secretary says freedom of movement is a worker 's right and the Right
:55:03. > :55:07.Honourable gentleman himself said the following. Labour is not wedded
:55:08. > :55:12.to freedom of movement for EU citizens as a point of principle,
:55:13. > :55:16.but I don't want that to be misinterpreted, nor do we rule it
:55:17. > :55:17.out. Little wonder nobody has any idea what the Labour Party position
:55:18. > :55:27.on that issue is. To all those we should be coming
:55:28. > :55:32.together and exacting the ambition of our country for the future and we
:55:33. > :55:36.should not be talking down the negotiations as he does. We should
:55:37. > :55:39.set out our optimism and determination to get the best
:55:40. > :55:50.possible deal for everybody in the United Kingdom.
:55:51. > :55:55.Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Leader of the Opposition 's remarks were
:55:56. > :55:59.breathtaking. For decades, from Maastricht onwards, he voted with us
:56:00. > :56:04.over and over and over again and today, Mr Speaker, this is a
:56:05. > :56:08.historic day indeed. Can my right honourable friend reaffirmed that at
:56:09. > :56:12.the very heart of this letter lies the democratic decision in the
:56:13. > :56:17.referendum of UK voters, given to them by a sovereign act of
:56:18. > :56:24.Parliament by 6-1 in this house, enabling the British people to
:56:25. > :56:26.regain their birthright to govern themselves, for which people fought
:56:27. > :56:36.and died over generations? The referendum was then followed by a
:56:37. > :56:42.massive majority of 372 in this house on the third reading of the
:56:43. > :56:47.withdrawal bill itself. Trade and cooperation, yes. European
:56:48. > :56:51.government, no. I think I can give my honourable friend the reassurance
:56:52. > :56:55.that he seeks. If I just quote from the very opening paragraph of my
:56:56. > :56:59.letter to President task, the very first line is to reaffirm that on
:57:00. > :57:03.June 23 last year the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the
:57:04. > :57:08.European Union but I go on to say that we do want the European Union
:57:09. > :57:11.to succeed and prosper. The vote was not a rejection of the values that
:57:12. > :57:17.we share as fellow Europeans, instead the referendum was about to
:57:18. > :57:28.restore as we see it, our national self-determination. It is important
:57:29. > :57:32.for everybody to remember on this day that on the referendum for the
:57:33. > :57:38.European Union the people of Scotland voted by 62% to remain in
:57:39. > :57:42.the European Union. Every single local government area in the country
:57:43. > :57:48.voted to remain in the European Union. Mr Speaker, this happened two
:57:49. > :57:54.years after Scottish voters were told that they had to voted no to
:57:55. > :57:59.Scottish independence to remain in the European Union, and yet
:58:00. > :58:04.ironically this is exactly what will happen now, because of the majority
:58:05. > :58:10.elsewhere in the United Kingdom, it will being imposed on the people of
:58:11. > :58:15.Scotland. Last year, Mr Speaker, I have raised repeatedly in this
:58:16. > :58:21.chamber the Prime Minister made a commitment to a UK wide approach and
:58:22. > :58:25.agreement with the governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern
:58:26. > :58:30.Ireland. Since then the Scottish Government has published a
:58:31. > :58:35.compromise suggestion. At its heart a plan that could satisfy people in
:58:36. > :58:44.Scotland and the rest of UK. The Prime Minister could have said that
:58:45. > :58:49.she would try, try to seek an agreement with European partners on
:58:50. > :58:53.the plan, which could have protected Scotland's place in the European
:58:54. > :58:58.market, but she did not. The Prime Minister could have taken the views
:58:59. > :59:02.of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments seriously and she
:59:03. > :59:08.could have reached an agreement before triggering Article 50, as she
:59:09. > :59:13.promised. She did not and she does not... Order! I apologise for
:59:14. > :59:15.interrupting the gentlemen, we cannot have side exchanges taking
:59:16. > :59:21.place while the right honourable gentleman should have the floor.
:59:22. > :59:25.Yes, I'm perfectly capable of seeing whence the disruption hailed, but I
:59:26. > :59:28.hope it will not persist. The honourable gentleman has important
:59:29. > :59:32.responsibilities in the government Whip office and he is normally the
:59:33. > :59:38.embodiment of courtesy, to which I know he will now return. Mr Angus
:59:39. > :59:41.Robertson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. We on these benches has become
:59:42. > :59:44.accustomed to the views of members on the other side of the house being
:59:45. > :59:50.incapable of understanding that the people of Scotland voted to remain
:59:51. > :59:57.in the European Union. The Prime Minister promised, promised... The
:59:58. > :00:01.honourable gentlemen and ladies opposite should understand that we
:00:02. > :00:06.have televisions in Scotland and viewers in Scotland can see this
:00:07. > :00:13.discourtesy from the benches opposite. They don't like to hear it
:00:14. > :00:18.but listen they must. The Prime Minister promised an agreement.
:00:19. > :00:23.There is no agreement. She has broken her word, and as Scotland's
:00:24. > :00:28.members of Parliament, we have been sent here with a mandate to stand up
:00:29. > :00:36.for the people of Scotland, it is a mandate that the Prime Minister does
:00:37. > :00:44.not enjoy. 58 out of 59, 58 out of 59 MPs from Scotland voted against
:00:45. > :00:48.triggering Article 50. The Scottish parliament voted against the
:00:49. > :00:52.triggering of Article 50, the Scottish Government was against the
:00:53. > :00:56.triggering of Article 50 before an agreement, and what has this
:00:57. > :01:00.government done? It has carried on blithely, ignoring the views of
:01:01. > :01:05.people in Scotland and its democratically represented a lack --
:01:06. > :01:09.democratically elected representatives. Europe is watching
:01:10. > :01:12.and it is watching the way that this government treats parts of the
:01:13. > :01:17.European Union that voted to remain with Europe. Mr Speaker, the UK
:01:18. > :01:24.Government had a mandate to hold a Brexit referendum. We accept that.
:01:25. > :01:32.We accept the result to leave in the rest of the United Kingdom, and in
:01:33. > :01:36.that context... Again, Mr Speaker, the benches opposite do not seem to
:01:37. > :01:41.understand that the United Kingdom is a multinational state with four
:01:42. > :01:45.nations, and two of them voted to stay, and two of them voted to leave
:01:46. > :01:51.and all of the rhetoric from the government benches does not paper
:01:52. > :02:01.over the gaping chasm that there was not unity in this so-called United
:02:02. > :02:05.Kingdom. As Democrats we should all accept that the Scottish Government
:02:06. > :02:09.has a mandate, given that by the people of Scotland, in an election
:02:10. > :02:15.that we should have a choice after the negotiations have concluded. It
:02:16. > :02:19.should not be kicked into the long grass on that democratic choice
:02:20. > :02:23.tonight. Yesterday the Scottish Parliament voted by 69-59 that
:02:24. > :02:28.people and scholars should have that choice. Will the Prime Minister
:02:29. > :02:35.confirm that she will recognise the democratic right of the people to
:02:36. > :02:37.make their own choice after negotiations have concluded? Mr
:02:38. > :02:42.Speaker, the Prime Minister says that she thinks that Brexit will
:02:43. > :02:49.bring unity to the United Kingdom. It will not. On this issue it is not
:02:50. > :02:53.a United Kingdom and the Prime Minister needs to respect the
:02:54. > :02:58.differences across the nations of the United Kingdom. If she does not
:02:59. > :03:02.and she remains intransigent, and if she denies Scotland a choice in our
:03:03. > :03:17.future, she will make Scottish independence inevitable. Calm
:03:18. > :03:21.yourselves! You are an exceptionally over excitable individual,
:03:22. > :03:25.brandishing your order paper in a distinctly eccentric manner. Go and
:03:26. > :03:29.entertain yourself somewhere else if you can't calm yourself. The Prime
:03:30. > :03:33.Minister. The right honourable gentleman has said this afternoon on
:03:34. > :03:38.a number of occasions, as he has on many occasions in this House before,
:03:39. > :03:42.that Scotland voted to remain in the European Union and should therefore
:03:43. > :04:00.be treated differently. My constituency voted to remain in the
:04:01. > :04:05.European Union! The point is that we are one United Kingdom. It was a
:04:06. > :04:10.vote of the whole of the united Kingdom. What I hear from people
:04:11. > :04:16.outside of this chamber, and by the way the right honourable gentleman
:04:17. > :04:21.seems to forget that something like 400,000 SNP supporters voted to
:04:22. > :04:25.leave the European Union. What I hear from people outside this
:04:26. > :04:30.chamber, from individuals and businesses alike, whether they voted
:04:31. > :04:32.to remain or to leave, is that the vote, having been taken, the
:04:33. > :04:37.decision having been given to people, of the United Kingdom that
:04:38. > :04:44.we should now respect that vote and get on with the job of delivering
:04:45. > :04:49.for everybody across the whole of the United Kingdom. He refers to the
:04:50. > :04:54.issue of Scottish independence and its impact on membership of the
:04:55. > :05:02.European Union. It is the case, and the European union has reinforced
:05:03. > :05:05.the Barroso doctrine, that is Scotland were to... They seem to
:05:06. > :05:09.find it amusing but just to remind everybody that that is the doctrine
:05:10. > :05:15.that if Scotland were to become depends on the United Kingdom and if
:05:16. > :05:20.they had voted for independence in 2016 that they would have ceased to
:05:21. > :05:25.be a member of the European Union. We will be ensuring that the
:05:26. > :05:30.substance of the deal that we achieve, the substance of the deal
:05:31. > :05:34.that we achieve, and I am interested in the outcomes of this deal, will
:05:35. > :05:41.be the best possible deal for the people of the whole of the United
:05:42. > :05:43.Kingdom. He talks about democratic representation and democratic
:05:44. > :05:46.responsibility. Perhaps the Scottish Government might like to consider
:05:47. > :05:54.White has not passed a single piece of legislation in Holyrood in the
:05:55. > :05:59.past year. -- why the Scottish Government has not passed a single
:06:00. > :06:05.piece of legislation... I especially welcome that we want a special
:06:06. > :06:08.relationship with the EU, based on friendship and trade and many other
:06:09. > :06:12.collaborations once we are an independent country again. Would my
:06:13. > :06:16.right honourable friend confirm that the UK Government is offering tariff
:06:17. > :06:21.free trade with no new barriers to all of our partners in Europe, which
:06:22. > :06:26.must make enormous sense for them? My right honourable friend is
:06:27. > :06:29.absolutely right, we want to see that tariff free trade on a
:06:30. > :06:33.reciprocal basis with the other countries in the European union. I
:06:34. > :06:36.think it makes sense and we already operate on the same basis because we
:06:37. > :06:39.operate under the same rules and regulations and I think we should
:06:40. > :06:46.look to have that maxim of free trade between the two countries. I
:06:47. > :06:49.thank the Prime Minister for her statement and for advance sight of
:06:50. > :06:55.it but today the Prime Minister is not an the will of the people, she
:06:56. > :06:59.is at best interpreting that will, choosing a hard Brexit outside the
:07:00. > :07:04.single market, that was never on the ballot paper. This day of all days,
:07:05. > :07:12.the Liberal Democrats will not roll over, as the official opposition has
:07:13. > :07:17.done. Our children and our grandchildren will judge all of us
:07:18. > :07:20.for our actions during these times. I am determined that I will look my
:07:21. > :07:25.children in the eye and be able to say that I did everything to prevent
:07:26. > :07:30.this calamity that the Prime Minister has today chosen. We now
:07:31. > :07:34.face an unknown deal that will shape our country for generations. The
:07:35. > :07:38.deal will be signed off by someone and the only question is who. Will
:07:39. > :07:41.it be the politicians or should it be the people? Surely the Prime
:07:42. > :07:49.Minister will agree with me that the people should have the final say? I
:07:50. > :07:53.say to the right honourable gentleman, can I gently remind him
:07:54. > :07:55.that he talks about us enacting the decision of the referendum, of
:07:56. > :07:59.course, we're acting the decision that was taken by the people of the
:08:00. > :08:02.United Kingdom enough referendum that I might remind him that it is
:08:03. > :08:08.not that long ago that the Liberal Democrat party wanted a referendum
:08:09. > :08:16.on this and we gave it to the man we are abiding by it. The Prime
:08:17. > :08:21.Minister has made it very clear that immigration is her number one
:08:22. > :08:24.priority. As a result of that, we cannot accept the free movement of
:08:25. > :08:30.people and we cannot remain a member of the single market. But, Mr
:08:31. > :08:34.Speaker, that may change in the next two years, who knows what might
:08:35. > :08:40.happen? The EU may move away from that principle of the free movement
:08:41. > :08:43.of people. In that event, could the Prime Minister give an assurance
:08:44. > :08:49.that she has not turned her back on membership of the single market? It
:08:50. > :08:54.is what British business once and it would stay off Nicola Sturgeon and
:08:55. > :09:08.the SNP is outrageous demands for a second referendum, and... And these
:09:09. > :09:13.are serious matters that this United Kingdom faces. It would provide the
:09:14. > :09:20.solution to Northern Ireland as we now leave the European Union. Can I
:09:21. > :09:25.just gently say to my honourable friend she started her question by
:09:26. > :09:28.saying that immigration was the number one priority. What we have
:09:29. > :09:32.done is said that we want a comprehensive package which does
:09:33. > :09:36.enable us to control immigration and set our own rules on immigration but
:09:37. > :09:39.also has exactly the sort of free access to the single market that I
:09:40. > :09:43.think my honourable friend is talking about and businesses want to
:09:44. > :09:46.see and I believe that we can achieve that agreement and we should
:09:47. > :09:55.be optimistic and ambitious in achieving that agreement. There are
:09:56. > :09:57.all the freedoms that the European Unions leaders will quote in
:09:58. > :09:59.relation to full membership of the single market, such as the
:10:00. > :10:03.jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and I think people voted
:10:04. > :10:07.to stop that jurisdiction last year and what matters to me is the
:10:08. > :10:11.outcome, not the structure by which we achieve that outcome, but will we
:10:12. > :10:14.have the free and frictionless tariff free access to the single
:10:15. > :10:15.market, and that is what we want to achieve and it is what we are
:10:16. > :10:23.working for. Can I thank the Prime Minister for
:10:24. > :10:28.her statement and congratulate her government on delivering on the will
:10:29. > :10:34.of the people of the United Kingdom and wish her well and her government
:10:35. > :10:38.in the negotiations that lie ahead. We are convinced that she is the
:10:39. > :10:47.right leader of our country for these challenges. And isn't the
:10:48. > :10:53.fundamental point this: that this United Kingdom, this union is far
:10:54. > :10:59.more important for the economic prosperity of all our people than
:11:00. > :11:04.the European Union? And can I also commend her for putting in article
:11:05. > :11:08.five in the principles she put out, Northern Ireland, the relationship
:11:09. > :11:12.of the Republic, and the way that has put forward. She will have our
:11:13. > :11:17.support in the coming months and years in this house to make that a
:11:18. > :11:21.reality. I thank the right honourable gentleman for his
:11:22. > :11:24.comments, particularly that we have recognised the particular
:11:25. > :11:27.circumstances of Northern Ireland and its relationship because of the
:11:28. > :11:31.land border with the Republic of Ireland. I recognised that in the
:11:32. > :11:37.letter to President Tusk. Can I agree with him when he says the most
:11:38. > :11:41.important union economically and for this United Kingdom in other ways is
:11:42. > :11:46.the United Kingdom. It is the case that for individual constituent
:11:47. > :11:49.parts it is the trading within the single market of the United Kingdom
:11:50. > :11:54.is far more important than trading with the European Union. Can I
:11:55. > :11:58.commend my right honourable friend for her constructive, positive and
:11:59. > :12:03.realistic tone she has set today with her statement and the letter to
:12:04. > :12:06.Donald Tusk. Can I also can't graduate her and her government for
:12:07. > :12:11.the use of the last nine months in order to prepare us for this point
:12:12. > :12:17.making up for the lack of preparation by the last
:12:18. > :12:20.administration for this moment. And can I also urge on herbal
:12:21. > :12:25.preparation that is implicit in this letter, that if it is impossible to
:12:26. > :12:29.get a deal home, that whilst that will be coped with by the United
:12:30. > :12:35.Kingdom and the European Union as it must be, that we are in the position
:12:36. > :12:40.to cope with it, should that happen. I thank my right honourable friend
:12:41. > :12:45.and it is important, we are approaching this in a realistic and
:12:46. > :12:48.pragmatic way, as he says. It is absolutely right of course
:12:49. > :12:52.government will be working across all departments to ensure that we
:12:53. > :12:57.have preparations in place whatever the outcome be. As I made clear in
:12:58. > :13:00.my letter to President Tusk, while both the European Union and the UK
:13:01. > :13:05.could cope with no agreement, that would not be the ideal situation, it
:13:06. > :13:10.is not what we would be working for and we should actively be working to
:13:11. > :13:14.get the right deal for both sides. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is
:13:15. > :13:19.right to say in her statement that this eventual deal must work for the
:13:20. > :13:22.48% as well as the 52%, because whether we were Remainers or levers
:13:23. > :13:30.we are in the same country together after Brexit. Can I emphasise to her
:13:31. > :13:35.that national unity must be earned and not just asserted. And it must
:13:36. > :13:39.be shown in deeds and not just in words. And we are a long, long way
:13:40. > :13:45.away from it and I think she will agree with that. As she reflects on
:13:46. > :13:49.the statement, can she say what she thinks she needs to do differently
:13:50. > :13:55.in the next 24 months to achieve that national unity which, frankly,
:13:56. > :13:58.eludes us at the moment. I think the most important thing that we can do,
:13:59. > :14:03.to things that we will be doing over the next 24 months as a government,
:14:04. > :14:07.one is putting in place our plan for Britain which is about ensuring that
:14:08. > :14:11.we see the United Kingdom where the economy works for everyone, where we
:14:12. > :14:15.see a much fairer society, where success is based on merit, not
:14:16. > :14:18.privilege. That's what is driving this government and that's what we
:14:19. > :14:22.will put into place domestic league. Also for the unity of the UK the
:14:23. > :14:27.most important relation to the negotiations with Europe is to get
:14:28. > :14:30.the best possible deal in terms of cooperation on security but also in
:14:31. > :14:35.terms of the free trade arrangement which will bring prosperity to our
:14:36. > :14:38.economy. Can I thank and congratulate my right honourable
:14:39. > :14:43.friend for resolutely sticking to her promise to the UK people to
:14:44. > :14:49.trigger Article 50. There will be celebrations all around the country,
:14:50. > :14:52.nowhere more so than coastal communities where the health and
:14:53. > :14:57.welfare of our fishing grounds has been trashed by the common fisheries
:14:58. > :15:04.policy. In order to fully re-establish our national control we
:15:05. > :15:07.will have to aggregate our meat membership of the London Convention
:15:08. > :15:12.on fisheries 1964 and that requires two years notice, as my right
:15:13. > :15:17.honourable friend intend to trigger that soon? My right honourable
:15:18. > :15:22.friend has always had an interest in the impact of common fisheries and
:15:23. > :15:24.it is an issue he has looked at. We are looking closely at the
:15:25. > :15:29.convention and what needs to be done. He is right it would require
:15:30. > :15:33.two years. Of course we expect to conclude the deal with the European
:15:34. > :15:36.Union within two years but there will be then periods of
:15:37. > :15:39.implementation periods beyond that period of time but we would hope to
:15:40. > :15:46.be able to say something about the fisheries convention soon. There are
:15:47. > :15:50.many across this house who are very aware of the sheer scale and
:15:51. > :15:54.complexity of the negotiations that will face our team and very
:15:55. > :15:59.conscious of the importance of getting those right. It has never
:16:00. > :16:02.been more true that the devil will be in the detail. As that detail
:16:03. > :16:06.emerges, will the Prime Minister ensure that everybody in her teens
:16:07. > :16:11.stops the practice which has been so prevalent of claiming that every
:16:12. > :16:18.awkward question is evidence of a desire to overturn the will of the
:16:19. > :16:22.British people? The right honourable lady is absolutely right that these
:16:23. > :16:28.will be very complex negotiations and I think it was right to wait for
:16:29. > :16:31.the nine months that we have done in order to invoke article 57 we have
:16:32. > :16:35.been able to do a considerable amount of preparation. There will be
:16:36. > :16:39.technical discussions to take place as well as the higher level
:16:40. > :16:43.discussions, and I can assure the right honourable lady that we
:16:44. > :16:48.consistently ask ourselves difficult questions to ensure that we are
:16:49. > :16:52.testing every approach that we put forward so that we get the best
:16:53. > :16:56.possible deal. May I reassure my right honourable friend that Donald
:16:57. > :17:02.Tusk has indeed received the letter, he tweeted about it one minute
:17:03. > :17:10.earlier which shows the keenness of our team. May I also told the Prime
:17:11. > :17:15.Minister that Donald Tusk has said that he is missing us already but
:17:16. > :17:20.that he recognises it is in the European Union's interest as well as
:17:21. > :17:23.that of the United Kingdom that we achieve an agreement that will
:17:24. > :17:32.benefit both sides in this negotiation. This is absolutely
:17:33. > :17:36.right. I'm pleased to hear that President Tusk has taken the view.
:17:37. > :17:39.This is not just about the United Kingdom for the future, it is about
:17:40. > :17:43.the European Union for the future and about the relationship that we
:17:44. > :17:46.will have with them. As I said in the letter we wanted deeper and
:17:47. > :17:55.special partnership to continue in the future. The Prime Minister has
:17:56. > :18:00.the goodwill of the country as she seeks a new relationship with our
:18:01. > :18:05.European allies. Will she confirmed that enshrines posing EU directives
:18:06. > :18:09.and regulations into UK law we don't transpose all the rulings of the
:18:10. > :18:12.ECJ. We do not have the EU Charter of fundamental rights imposed given
:18:13. > :18:18.that we have long-standing assurances that it will not have
:18:19. > :18:21.legal force in this country. I would say to the honourable gentleman that
:18:22. > :18:28.we will be publishing the great repeal Bill tomorrow which will make
:18:29. > :18:33.clearer how we are going to transpose the relevant judgments of
:18:34. > :18:37.the European Court of justice. This government has taken a very clear
:18:38. > :18:40.position that we don't think that the European Charter of fundamental
:18:41. > :18:50.human rights is something that is applicable. In her letter to
:18:51. > :18:54.President Tusk, the Prime Minister said in January, we are leaving the
:18:55. > :18:59.European Union, we are not leaving Europe. She will know that 16.1
:19:00. > :19:04.million people last June voted to do neither. But the result is as it is
:19:05. > :19:07.an needs to be honoured. Could my right honourable friend say how she
:19:08. > :19:10.will keep Parliament fully engaged, this Parliament, through that
:19:11. > :19:17.process, and also that she will do her utmost to secure a trade deal we
:19:18. > :19:21.can all support and not listen to the siren voices who seem to think
:19:22. > :19:25.that no deal is a good option? I'm very happy to give the reassurance
:19:26. > :19:29.to my right honourable friend. I want to secure a really good trade
:19:30. > :19:32.deal for the United Kingdom. I also want to secure trade deals with
:19:33. > :19:36.countries around the rest of the world. We do want to ensure and we
:19:37. > :19:40.start off from a good position because we are operating on the same
:19:41. > :19:45.rules and regulations as the European Union, that we get that
:19:46. > :19:47.really good trade deal with the EU. There will be significant
:19:48. > :19:52.opportunities for this house and Parliament to consider opportunities
:19:53. > :19:55.as we go through the next two years. The great repeal bill itself will be
:19:56. > :20:00.a matter foot of and consideration in this house. There will also be
:20:01. > :20:03.some subsequent pieces of legislation required as a result of
:20:04. > :20:07.the decision to leave the European Union which will come before this
:20:08. > :20:11.house and we will make every effort to keep this house informed as we go
:20:12. > :20:17.through. I've always said we will be clear and give clarity were able to
:20:18. > :20:24.do so. The Prime Minister will no doubt recall the referendum speech
:20:25. > :20:27.she made last April in which she said "The big question is whether in
:20:28. > :20:34.the event of Brexit we would be able to negotiate a new free trade
:20:35. > :20:37.agreement with the EU and on what terms". Given that the European
:20:38. > :20:44.Union appears to want to start the negotiations by talking only about
:20:45. > :20:47.money, given that there are about 18 months ago, how is the Prime
:20:48. > :20:51.Minister going to ensure that there is sufficient time to reach that
:20:52. > :20:56.agreement to provide tariff and barrier free trade and access to the
:20:57. > :21:00.European market for our services that she has promised Britain's
:21:01. > :21:08.businesses that she will bring back from the negotiations? Of course we
:21:09. > :21:10.don't yet know how the European Council will choose to friend the
:21:11. > :21:16.negotiations. I will be meeting on the 29th of April to determine that.
:21:17. > :21:20.There will be the two parts to the work going forward. One is the
:21:21. > :21:25.process of withdrawal and the terms of withdrawal and the other is what
:21:26. > :21:30.the future relationship will be. It's clear in Article 50 that the
:21:31. > :21:33.former should be done in the context of the latter. So I think it is not
:21:34. > :21:37.just reasonable but entirely right and proper that we look at those two
:21:38. > :21:41.issues alongside each other. As I've said in answer to other questions,
:21:42. > :21:47.the point about the comprehensive free trade agreement is that we will
:21:48. > :21:50.not be operating as a third party such as Canada for example when it
:21:51. > :21:54.started its negotiations with the European Union. We already operate
:21:55. > :21:58.on the same basis and already have that free trade between the European
:21:59. > :22:02.Union and the United Kingdom. I believe that sets us on a better
:22:03. > :22:04.basis on which to start those negotiations and that it will be
:22:05. > :22:11.possible to get that comprehensive free trade agreement. I thank the
:22:12. > :22:14.Prime Minister on her handling of the triggering of Article 50 and
:22:15. > :22:18.respecting the wishes of the British electorate at the referendum. Can I
:22:19. > :22:20.suggest there's another reason to make sure that guaranteeing the
:22:21. > :22:26.rights of EU nationals both living here and on the continent should be
:22:27. > :22:30.a very high priority. Not only is it the right thing to do and it
:22:31. > :22:34.establishes good intent but it would be clear to the world, should there
:22:35. > :22:40.be no agreement, that actually that would not be our fault, we would not
:22:41. > :22:45.be using EU nationals as bargaining chips? Well, I'm very clear in the
:22:46. > :22:50.letter I have sent to President Tusk that we intend to work on the rights
:22:51. > :22:54.of EU nationals and UK nationals living in the EU to be undertaken to
:22:55. > :22:58.be part of the negotiations at an early stage. As I've said before I
:22:59. > :23:04.genuinely believe there is goodwill to do that and I hope that we will
:23:05. > :23:07.be able to achieve that at an early stage of negotiations and give
:23:08. > :23:10.reassurance to both EU citizens living here and UK citizens living
:23:11. > :23:16.in the European Union of their future. The last Prime Minister did
:23:17. > :23:22.not want this day to come, although it did follow from many decisions he
:23:23. > :23:24.took over many years. And he will be remembered as the Prime Minister who
:23:25. > :23:31.unintentionally let Britain out of Europe. This Prime Minister, I know,
:23:32. > :23:36.does not want to see the break-up of the United Kingdom, but she will
:23:37. > :23:40.also note that holding us together requires more than just the rhetoric
:23:41. > :23:45.of unity. So can she say what she will do in both the content and
:23:46. > :23:51.style of her negotiations not to fuel further division, not to play
:23:52. > :23:55.into the hands of others, but to ensure voices from all over the
:23:56. > :23:59.country are genuinely heard in this debate so that she does not become a
:24:00. > :24:05.Prime Minister who unintentionally leads the break-up of Britain. Can I
:24:06. > :24:08.first of all say to the right honourable lady, she referred to the
:24:09. > :24:11.decision on the referendum as one of leaving Europe, it is leaving the
:24:12. > :24:17.European Union, it is not leaving Europe. We want at deep and special
:24:18. > :24:20.partnership with the European Union, and we will continue to be part of
:24:21. > :24:27.Europe and work with our friends and allies in Europe. As we go ahead we
:24:28. > :24:30.will continue to undertake discussions with not just the
:24:31. > :24:33.devolved administrations in the United Kingdom but with businesses
:24:34. > :24:39.across the United Kingdom, with other organisations across the UK,
:24:40. > :24:43.government departments are speaking with a whole range of sectors to
:24:44. > :24:46.ensure that all views and considerations are taken into
:24:47. > :24:49.account as we go forward in the negotiations. We want to make sure
:24:50. > :24:53.that we fully understand the concerns and interests people have
:24:54. > :24:56.and that's why we've already started talking widely with not just the
:24:57. > :24:59.devolved administrations but also others across the United Kingdom to
:25:00. > :25:05.ensure that we do get those views and take them into account.
:25:06. > :25:11.Can I congratulate my right honourable friend on her resolve in
:25:12. > :25:15.carrying forward the Democratic out crumb of the referendum and no
:25:16. > :25:18.matter what the differences are crosses House I can assure her that
:25:19. > :25:24.every single member of this House would wish her well for the
:25:25. > :25:28.negotiations ahead. No matter how those negotiations progress over the
:25:29. > :25:33.coming months and years, can she confirm that the United Kingdom will
:25:34. > :25:37.continue to prioritise Corporation and the exchange of information with
:25:38. > :25:42.the other European countries, to ensure that our internal and
:25:43. > :25:48.external security is not compromised in any way whatsoever. I am happy to
:25:49. > :25:52.give my right honourable friend that assurance. The security cooperation
:25:53. > :25:56.that we have, the cooperation we have on justice and home affairs
:25:57. > :25:59.matters, is very important to us as well as the member states of the
:26:00. > :26:03.European Union. It is something I worked closely on as Home Secretary
:26:04. > :26:08.and I can assure her that we will be looking to ensure that corporation
:26:09. > :26:13.can continue. Now, as we look at the challenges we face, across the
:26:14. > :26:15.globe, now is not the time for less Corporation, now is the time to
:26:16. > :26:25.ensure that we continue to cooperate and build on that. Could I remind
:26:26. > :26:31.the Prime Minister that Northern Ireland voted 56% to remain? My own
:26:32. > :26:35.constituency voted almost 70% and could I, with respect, Prime
:26:36. > :26:40.Minister, warn you about the Trojan horse being pushed out to you in the
:26:41. > :26:47.form of honey words from the bench behind me. The Prime Minister says
:26:48. > :26:52.that the interests of all nations and regions of the UK have to be
:26:53. > :26:56.taken into account in the negotiations. What measures has she
:26:57. > :27:00.been able to put into place, or does she intend to put into place, to
:27:01. > :27:03.ensure that the Northern Ireland views, needs and special
:27:04. > :27:07.circumstances are taken into account in these negotiations going forward?
:27:08. > :27:10.Can I thank the honourable gentleman for his question and the point he
:27:11. > :27:22.made about the boat in Northern Ireland is one that I was attempting
:27:23. > :27:24.to show earlier, which is that different parts of the United
:27:25. > :27:27.Kingdom voted in different ways, some voted to leave and some to
:27:28. > :27:29.remain. The overall result of the referendum from the United Kingdom
:27:30. > :27:32.was that we should leave the European Union and it is what we
:27:33. > :27:34.will be doing. We have been maintaining contact with the
:27:35. > :27:39.Northern Ireland executive up until the point at which the executive
:27:40. > :27:43.ceased to exist and the election was taking place. We have been
:27:44. > :27:50.continuing to talk to political parties in Northern Ireland on this
:27:51. > :27:53.issue. The best result to ensure the voice of the devolved administration
:27:54. > :27:57.can be heard in these negotiations is for the parties to come together
:27:58. > :28:02.and for us to see a strong devolved government that will provide us with
:28:03. > :28:07.that dealer Kutcher. Since the vote the economic news has confounded
:28:08. > :28:11.expectations. Economists for free trade have told us how WTO rules
:28:12. > :28:19.with the right policies can cut consumer prices and raise GDP and we
:28:20. > :28:22.have heard every reason to believe that we will secure the right trade
:28:23. > :28:26.deal for us and we will liberate trade right around the world. Will
:28:27. > :28:35.the Prime Minister agree with me that the time for project fee is
:28:36. > :28:37.over? My honourable right -- my honourable friend is right.
:28:38. > :28:40.Obviously there were predictions of what happened to the economy of the
:28:41. > :28:44.United Kingdom voted to leave and his predictions have not proved to
:28:45. > :28:48.be correct and we see a strong economy. As we go forward we want to
:28:49. > :28:51.build on that we want to ensure we get those comprehensive trade
:28:52. > :28:54.agreements. I believe a comprehensive free trade agreement
:28:55. > :28:58.with the European Union should be our aim and it is what we will be
:28:59. > :29:02.working for and we will also be looking to promote trade around the
:29:03. > :29:06.rest of the world, as my honourable friend says, it is I think in the
:29:07. > :29:10.interests of everybody, not just the UK or the EU but also countries
:29:11. > :29:18.around the world that we stand up for the benefits of free trade and
:29:19. > :29:22.we promote it around the world. As has been said the Prime Minister
:29:23. > :29:27.said in her statement she was taking due account of the specific interest
:29:28. > :29:34.in every nation and region of the UK. Leading councils in Yorkshire
:29:35. > :29:40.have had no contact whatsoever from the government. Can the Prime
:29:41. > :29:44.Minister please work now with local government and local enterprise
:29:45. > :29:49.boards in all English regions to analyse the effect on jobs and trade
:29:50. > :29:55.and investment so negotiations can achieve, as was promised, not just
:29:56. > :29:58.an aspiration by the Secretary of State for Brexit but the exact same
:29:59. > :30:02.benefits, as we have for membership of the single market in the customs
:30:03. > :30:06.union. She sidestepped the question from the Leader of the Opposition.
:30:07. > :30:12.Can I ask again, does she believe the English regions can get the
:30:13. > :30:16.exact same benefits as before? The Right Honourable Lady has asked a
:30:17. > :30:21.number of questions there. I am very clear that we want to ensure that we
:30:22. > :30:24.get that free trade agreement, that comprehensive free trade agreement,
:30:25. > :30:29.which does give our businesses the benefits that they have had as
:30:30. > :30:33.members of the European Union. In relation to local authorities and
:30:34. > :30:47.Maher is my right honourable friend is talking to local Mayers and I had
:30:48. > :30:50.a roundtable of local authorities in Birmingham and we spoke to them so
:30:51. > :30:56.we're listening to voices across the regions. Like millions of others in
:30:57. > :30:59.the United Kingdom, I am proud of the European Union and the
:31:00. > :31:04.contribution the United Kingdom has made to the European Union during my
:31:05. > :31:08.political lifetime, and I am a little sad about today, but I do
:31:09. > :31:13.stand unequivocably with the Prime Minister as she calls for a united
:31:14. > :31:17.approach to a new future. Does my right honourable friend therefore
:31:18. > :31:23.agree with me that in order to make that national endeavour meaningful
:31:24. > :31:30.that her door and the door of her ministers should always be open to
:31:31. > :31:33.all parties in the House and all sides in this discussion because for
:31:34. > :31:36.a new script to be written for the European Union and the United
:31:37. > :31:39.Kingdom 's relationship, it should be written as much by those who
:31:40. > :31:45.value the European Union as those who have campaigned to leave it? I
:31:46. > :31:50.thank my right honourable friend for his question. As I stayed in my
:31:51. > :31:54.statement earlier there will be those who are celebrated and those
:31:55. > :31:57.who are sad and disappointed about the decision that has been taken
:31:58. > :32:00.back can I reassure him that as we move forward and we ensure we are
:32:01. > :32:03.getting the best possible arrangements for the future that we
:32:04. > :32:09.can I do want to listen and ministers do want to listen to all
:32:10. > :32:15.voices in this House, to those who were ardent on both sides of the
:32:16. > :32:22.campaign and as I just indicated we are listening to all parts of the
:32:23. > :32:25.United Kingdom. Today is the day that The Right Honourable member for
:32:26. > :32:30.Maidenhead has become the first Prime Minister in recent history to
:32:31. > :32:33.have to be reminded that Scotland is a country, not a constituency of
:32:34. > :32:42.England. The Prime Minister refused to reply... The Prime Minister
:32:43. > :32:45.refused to reply to the question of whether there had been an economic
:32:46. > :32:52.assessment of the impact of leaving the EU with no deal. Has there been
:32:53. > :32:56.such an assessment? Will she publish it at, and if that hasn't been hard
:32:57. > :33:01.as the former Home Secretary know it is perfectly OK? Can I said The
:33:02. > :33:08.Right Honourable gentleman I am well aware that Scotland is a constituent
:33:09. > :33:13.nation of the United Kingdom. The point is a very simple one and it
:33:14. > :33:17.was made from the bench behind him earlier, which is that different
:33:18. > :33:22.parts of the United Kingdom voted in different ways. Different
:33:23. > :33:25.constituencies voted different ways and Scotland Wales and Northern
:33:26. > :33:29.Ireland voted in different ways. Wales voted to leave Scotland and
:33:30. > :33:35.Northern Ireland voted to remain, but the overall response of the
:33:36. > :33:41.United Kingdom was a vote to leave the European Union and that is what
:33:42. > :33:44.we are putting into place. I say to The Right Honourable gentleman, that
:33:45. > :33:49.we are looking at the arrangements that need to be put in place
:33:50. > :33:54.whatever the impact and whatever the decision that is taken at the end
:33:55. > :33:59.but crucially what I am very clear about, and I am clearing my lesson
:34:00. > :34:02.to -- letter to President Tusk, that we should work to get that
:34:03. > :34:06.comprehensive free trade agreement so we are not in a position of
:34:07. > :34:13.having no deal but we have a deal to the benefit of everyone in the UK,
:34:14. > :34:16.including the people of Scotland. Could I congratulate the Prime
:34:17. > :34:20.Minister on the cool and constructive clarity and conviction
:34:21. > :34:23.she has brought to this momentous period in British politics and her
:34:24. > :34:29.commitment to to negotiate on behalf of everyone in this country, the 48
:34:30. > :34:34.as well as the 52. Does she agree that we must almost -- also double
:34:35. > :34:37.our commitment to domestic reform, the Conservative programme that is
:34:38. > :34:43.so key to skills and infrastructure and our post Brexit prosperity and
:34:44. > :34:46.the union that we want to succeed. She said to Donald Tusk that the
:34:47. > :34:51.task is momentous but it should be beyond us. Does she agree that that
:34:52. > :34:56.applies to the members of the House and direct the shrill voices of
:34:57. > :35:04.nationalism so that we pull together and not a part. My honourable friend
:35:05. > :35:07.is absolutely right. The question that people responded to in the
:35:08. > :35:09.referendum was about leaving the European Union but I believe that
:35:10. > :35:14.the vote to leave was also a vote for change in this country, for
:35:15. > :35:19.wider change in this country. That is why it is so important that we
:35:20. > :35:24.put forward and deliver on our plan for Britain, for the stronger and
:35:25. > :35:29.fairer society, a country that works for everyone, and it is important
:35:30. > :35:33.right now that we do pull together and we do recognise that the task we
:35:34. > :35:39.have ahead is about ensuring we get the right result for the whole of
:35:40. > :35:43.the United Kingdom. I think regardless of how people voted in
:35:44. > :35:48.the referendum I suspect there is an even bigger majority today for all
:35:49. > :35:51.of us to get on and get the best we possibly can. Can I asked the Prime
:35:52. > :35:56.Minister, because many businesses are worried, that in the triggering
:35:57. > :35:59.of Article 50 they feel that the clock is ticking and everything
:36:00. > :36:02.might need to be resolved within two years. She can she reassure those
:36:03. > :36:08.businesses that what we will have end of the two years is the
:36:09. > :36:10.headlines, that there will have to be transitional agreements to ensure
:36:11. > :36:15.the Devil in the detail is explored and this House can discuss about and
:36:16. > :36:19.we get it right for the businesses and the rest of Britain? The Right
:36:20. > :36:22.Honourable lady is right. Of course businesses want the certainty of
:36:23. > :36:26.knowing where they will stand so they can plan for the future. That
:36:27. > :36:32.is why I think two things are important, that we bring this into
:36:33. > :36:35.law through the UK repeal bill so that people know that every role
:36:36. > :36:40.does still apply and they know where they stand. It is also right that it
:36:41. > :36:44.is a tight timetable to get the agreement and there will need to be
:36:45. > :36:48.implementation periods so that we can ensure it is now put into
:36:49. > :36:55.practice in the way that makes practical sense for businesses and
:36:56. > :37:00.governments. Will the Prime Minister reaffirm that the defence of Europe
:37:01. > :37:06.does not depend upon the EU, but upon the deterrent effect of article
:37:07. > :37:11.five of the Nato treaty, which means that an attack on any European Nato
:37:12. > :37:18.member will involve the United States in its defence from the first
:37:19. > :37:23.hour of the first day, but in a spirit of unity will she join with
:37:24. > :37:28.me in congratulating two statesman on opposite sides of the Brexit
:37:29. > :37:31.debate, Sir John Major and Lord Tebbit of Chingford who may not
:37:32. > :37:41.share the same views on Europe but whose share the same birthday today.
:37:42. > :37:47.I am very happy to wish a happy birthday to members of the
:37:48. > :37:51.Conservative Party and do so indeed. Can I say to my honourable friend
:37:52. > :37:55.that he has obviously raised the important issue of Nato, the bedrock
:37:56. > :37:59.of our security and defence under article five lies at the heart of
:38:00. > :38:08.that security and defence. We remain, as I indicated in answer to
:38:09. > :38:13.my honourable friend, the member for Louth and Horncastle earlier, that
:38:14. > :38:16.Nato is that important bedrock of our security and defence and we will
:38:17. > :38:20.continue to contribute to Nato in the way we have done in the past and
:38:21. > :38:24.continue to encourage others to ensure that Nato is able to provide
:38:25. > :38:31.that security into the future as it has done in the past. I would remind
:38:32. > :38:35.the Prime Minister that defence is about more than weapons, it is about
:38:36. > :38:39.values and collective solidarity as well and there are two kinds of
:38:40. > :38:44.futures stemming from the process that is triggered today. The first
:38:45. > :38:49.is that we spend two years desperately trying to secure what we
:38:50. > :38:52.have already come in the secretary of States words, the exact same
:38:53. > :38:56.benefits that we have, while gaining control of immigration, which may
:38:57. > :38:59.make little difference to the numbers, as ministers have
:39:00. > :39:26.suggested, in which case people will ask
:39:27. > :39:30.what is the point? Or there is another future where we crash out
:39:31. > :39:32.without an agreement, defaulting to WTO rules, with all that would mean
:39:33. > :39:34.for industry, agriculture and services. In which case people will
:39:35. > :39:37.ask, what is the price? Which future does she think is the more likely?
:39:38. > :39:40.What's the point? Or what the price? I have to say to The Right
:39:41. > :39:43.Honourable gentleman that I think is throwing the question in the wrong
:39:44. > :39:45.way. When people voted to leave the European Union I believe that we
:39:46. > :39:47.still want to have that good trading relationship with the European Union
:39:48. > :39:50.but what people were overwhelmingly voting for was to be able to know
:39:51. > :39:53.that the UK Government was in control of key decisions which
:39:54. > :39:55.previously had been taken in the EU institutions. Yes, the issue of
:39:56. > :39:59.immigration laws was a part of that and about the spending of our budget
:40:00. > :40:03.was also part of it but also the relationship of UK courts to
:40:04. > :40:07.decisions being taken here in this Parliament and our ability to set
:40:08. > :40:10.our own laws and for those laws to be determined by our courts was
:40:11. > :40:14.underlying the vote that people took. This was not just a question
:40:15. > :40:15.about money, it was about values and the value of that
:40:16. > :40:23.self-determination. Can I join others in commending the
:40:24. > :40:28.Prime Minister on what I think is a clear, concise and very generous
:40:29. > :40:32.approach to negotiations in her statement today and her letter to
:40:33. > :40:36.President Tusk. She will know the reason we have a strong economy
:40:37. > :40:39.currently is partly due to decisions of the previous government and
:40:40. > :40:45.partly because nothing has changed other than the sharp appreciation in
:40:46. > :40:49.our currency. As we going to a period of really enhanced risk and
:40:50. > :40:53.uncertainty for our country, process which I think she will lead us
:40:54. > :40:57.admirably through, does she not agree it is time to start talking
:40:58. > :41:01.facts and sense to the British people rather than rhetoric and
:41:02. > :41:06.ideology? And in particular rejecting the idea that no deal and
:41:07. > :41:13.a reliance on WTO rules would somehow be OK. Like me I'm sure she
:41:14. > :41:17.has seen recent research from the research council that suggests that
:41:18. > :41:21.the WTO deal, despite all the trade deals we want to sign with China and
:41:22. > :41:28.Brazil and India and America would represent a loss of trade of a
:41:29. > :41:31.quarter to the British economy. We cannot do that to this country. I
:41:32. > :41:36.hope she will tell us we are not going to do that to this country.
:41:37. > :41:41.Can we start talking about trusting experts are little bit more? Well my
:41:42. > :41:45.honourable friend is absolutely right that the long-term economic
:41:46. > :41:49.plan which was put in by the Conservative led government and on
:41:50. > :41:52.which we all stood at the last election is the plan that has
:41:53. > :41:57.enabled our economy to have the strength that is necessary and we
:41:58. > :42:01.are pleased that we are able to maintain and build on that strength
:42:02. > :42:06.in our economy. She talks about the WTO arrangements. What I say in the
:42:07. > :42:09.letter to President Tusk is very clear, but if we leave without an
:42:10. > :42:14.agreement, the default position is that we would have to trade on World
:42:15. > :42:17.Trade Organisation terms. In this scenario the UK and EU would of
:42:18. > :42:23.course cope with the change but is not the outcome that either side
:42:24. > :42:28.should seek. We must therefore work hard to avoid that outcome. I'm
:42:29. > :42:30.clear we want the comprehensive free trade agreement with the European
:42:31. > :42:36.Union and that's what we'll be working for. On what is a genuinely
:42:37. > :42:41.historic day for our country can I pay tribute to the Prime Minister
:42:42. > :42:44.and indeed to the Brexit ministers for their determination and
:42:45. > :42:48.dedication to get to this stage today to implement the will of the
:42:49. > :42:51.British people. Would she agree with me that there is one area that we
:42:52. > :42:57.should be able to move forward very quickly on in negotiations and that
:42:58. > :43:08.is getting control of our fishing grounds back. I'd my right
:43:09. > :43:13.honourable friend, the former Environment Secretary, did raise the
:43:14. > :43:16.question of the London fisheries convention which we are looking at
:43:17. > :43:18.and hope to be able to say something soon.
:43:19. > :43:25.As we look at a whole raft in the negotiations that will be taking
:43:26. > :43:30.place, we will be looking at policies that affect agriculture and
:43:31. > :43:35.fisheries here in the United Kingdom and the other issues on Security and
:43:36. > :43:42.crime. But we will be looking particularly at the London fisheries
:43:43. > :43:45.convention in due course. The Prime Minister's letter to President Tusk
:43:46. > :43:50.is not one I ever hope to read but having done so I welcome the eight
:43:51. > :43:54.principles. But does the Prime Minister agree that to bring those
:43:55. > :43:59.to fruition it would be very helpful to include all of us in this
:44:00. > :44:06.process? Because of course even the most ardent pro-European is actually
:44:07. > :44:11.also incredibly ambitious about this country. I'm very happy to give that
:44:12. > :44:17.reassurance to my honourable friend. I think that what I hope we will see
:44:18. > :44:21.and is indicated we will see, people who were previously on both sides of
:44:22. > :44:24.this argument about leaving the European Union actually coming
:44:25. > :44:27.together with that ambition for the future and it's important we take
:44:28. > :44:34.all views into account as we develop that. In her letter and again in her
:44:35. > :44:39.statement today she has made clear that she believes it will be
:44:40. > :44:42.necessary to agree the terms of the divorce alongside the details of our
:44:43. > :44:48.future relationship with the European Union. If the other 27
:44:49. > :44:52.comeback in their reply and say they want to agree the terms of the
:44:53. > :44:58.divorce first including citizenship rights, our liabilities and the
:44:59. > :45:02.issue of orders, particularly Northern Ireland, how will she
:45:03. > :45:06.respond? The question will be that we will go into a negotiation with
:45:07. > :45:09.the European Union about the best way in which we take things forward.
:45:10. > :45:15.I have been putting forward the case, as have other ministers that I
:45:16. > :45:19.think it makes sense for everybody from a pragmatic point of view to
:45:20. > :45:22.ensure that at the end of the two years we have both of these
:45:23. > :45:27.decisions concluded. The withdrawal process and the future relationship.
:45:28. > :45:32.And that's because I don't think it's in anybody's interest for the
:45:33. > :45:34.UK to agree to withdraw to go on to one set of arrangements and then
:45:35. > :45:38.negotiate another set of arrangements which come into place
:45:39. > :45:42.at a later date. I think it makes much better sense for individuals,
:45:43. > :45:45.for businesses and for governments for us to be able to conclude those
:45:46. > :45:53.two parts of the negotiation at the same time. Some members on both
:45:54. > :46:00.sides of this house has been working all their political career to
:46:01. > :46:04.extract the United Kingdom from the European superstate. Sometimes we
:46:05. > :46:09.were isolated, sometimes we were ignored and sometimes we were
:46:10. > :46:14.insulted. But thanks to the British people today we are leaving the
:46:15. > :46:19.European Union. In the past when there has been a major change in our
:46:20. > :46:25.relationship with Europe it has happened through conflict, bloodshed
:46:26. > :46:32.and turmoil. Will the Prime Minister agree with me that the whole country
:46:33. > :46:38.can celebrate the fact that this change is happening peacefully and
:46:39. > :46:44.democratically? I'm very happy to endorse that and I think it is
:46:45. > :46:49.attributed to the way in which we in the UK have approached this issue.
:46:50. > :46:52.Also the way in which our European partners have been willing to
:46:53. > :46:55.approach it and I think will be willing to approach it for the
:46:56. > :46:59.future. I think the eyes of the world will be on us as we go through
:47:00. > :47:11.this negotiation to see precisely how we conduct it and I wanted to be
:47:12. > :47:14.positively and respectfully. After the Brexit deal has been negotiated
:47:15. > :47:19.the European Union Parliament and every other member state in the
:47:20. > :47:24.European Union will have a say on whether to accept the deal. Can the
:47:25. > :47:28.Prime Minister not see that to deny the people of Scotland a say at the
:47:29. > :47:36.same time would show at a contempt for democracy in Scotland? We've
:47:37. > :47:42.been very clear that there will be a vote in this Parliament when we come
:47:43. > :47:46.back with a deal from the European Union, that will be in both houses
:47:47. > :47:50.of this Parliament, it will be before the deal comes into force and
:47:51. > :47:54.we expect that to be undertaken before the European Parliament has
:47:55. > :47:59.had an opportunity to debate and vote on this issue. Of course within
:48:00. > :48:06.this house there are representatives from all parts of the United
:48:07. > :48:12.Kingdom. Does my right honourable friend recalled the words of Francis
:48:13. > :48:20.Drake? There must be a beginning of any great matter, and the continuing
:48:21. > :48:24.to the end until it be thoroughly finished, yield the true glory. May
:48:25. > :48:28.I wish my right honourable friend good luck and good fortune in her
:48:29. > :48:39.negotiations until she comes to true glory and is welcomed back to this
:48:40. > :48:50.house as a 21st-century glory Anah. I think the answer to that is I
:48:51. > :48:53.thank my honourable friend. Mr Speaker, I wonder if the Prime
:48:54. > :48:59.Minister might clear up a bit of confusion about immigration policy
:49:00. > :49:03.on her own side. The Times reports that the International Trade
:49:04. > :49:11.secretary is now arguing for more immigration from countries that are
:49:12. > :49:16.outside the EU in return for striking new trade deals. Does the
:49:17. > :49:19.Prime Minister agree? The government has a clear position on the work
:49:20. > :49:27.that we aren't doing to reduce net migration into this country. Leaving
:49:28. > :49:30.the EU will to introduce rules in relation to people moving from
:49:31. > :49:34.European Union member states into the United Kingdom. But we continue
:49:35. > :49:37.to ensure that we are bearing down on abuse in our immigration system
:49:38. > :49:43.and having the rules that we believe are right to continue to bring the
:49:44. > :49:53.lightest and the best here to the UK. May I thank the Prime Minister
:49:54. > :49:58.for her statement and for being very clear that we are not leaving
:49:59. > :50:02.Europe. For being very clear that we seek to guarantee the rights of EU
:50:03. > :50:06.citizens. And when she says as early as we can, does the Prime Minister
:50:07. > :50:15.agree with me as a fellow European, as early as we can means today? We
:50:16. > :50:22.will be in terms of the negotiation because I want reciprocal rights it
:50:23. > :50:26.is not just about what we say, it will be for the European Union
:50:27. > :50:28.remaining 27 member states to negotiate with us on that. We need
:50:29. > :50:40.that represent a class I am hopeful we can start this at an
:50:41. > :50:45.early stage. Some members for the British people, isn't it important
:50:46. > :50:50.to recognise for the large majority of people in this country are not
:50:51. > :50:55.dogmatically for or against the UK being in the European Union. And if
:50:56. > :50:59.we want to bring the people together as the Prime Minister has said, that
:51:00. > :51:07.should be very much borne in mind. And the other aspect, if during the
:51:08. > :51:11.negotiations which her predecessor undertook there had been some
:51:12. > :51:17.flexibility from the European Union over the free movement of labour, is
:51:18. > :51:26.it not quite likely we would not be debating this issue now? I say to
:51:27. > :51:31.the honourable gentleman that David Cameron put an enormous effort, as
:51:32. > :51:34.did others across government into the negotiations he undertook for
:51:35. > :51:37.the deal he brought to the British people. But the assumption the
:51:38. > :51:42.honourable gentleman has made is that the only issue on which people
:51:43. > :51:45.voted on was free movement. I don't think that's right. I think it was a
:51:46. > :51:50.key issue in that people wanted control of borders. But I think it
:51:51. > :51:55.was about more than that. It was about control of our laws, control
:51:56. > :52:04.of our money and it was about self-determination. I think that was
:52:05. > :52:08.what was driving the decision. Many vegetable growers in South Rebel are
:52:09. > :52:12.reliant on migrant labour and easy access to European markets for their
:52:13. > :52:19.exports. Can my right honourable friend reassure my constituents that
:52:20. > :52:27.which is farming will be a priority in her negotiations? I can assure my
:52:28. > :52:29.honourable friend at the Secretary of State for the Department for food
:52:30. > :52:35.and raw affairs is working very closely with farming communities on
:52:36. > :52:38.the interests that they have for the future and the arrangements that
:52:39. > :52:44.will be put in place once we leave the common agricultural policy. Can
:52:45. > :52:51.I say that I welcome the triggering of Article 50 as it will make
:52:52. > :52:55.possible the democratic socialist future which I and many others have
:52:56. > :53:01.struggled for all our lives. The Prime Minister will be aware that we
:53:02. > :53:05.have a trade deficit with the EU of over ?60 billion a year, another
:53:06. > :53:13.deficit of around ?20 billion per year, and we pay in over ?10 million
:53:14. > :53:17.a year as our contribution, total of ?90 billion, a huge sum roughly
:53:18. > :53:23.equivalent to ?6,000 a year for a family of four. This has not put
:53:24. > :53:28.Britain in a strong position, specifically about trade? I think we
:53:29. > :53:34.are in a good position in relation to trade. I think that's because of
:53:35. > :53:40.the benefits of trade that companies in the European union member states
:53:41. > :53:45.see and I believe that there is a real benefit on both sides in this
:53:46. > :53:54.negotiation to get a good trade deal for both of us. May I wholeheartedly
:53:55. > :53:58.welcomed the Prime Minister's method of looking forward with optimism and
:53:59. > :54:03.hope. Without this kind of view I would certainly have never made it
:54:04. > :54:09.to this place. And today my heart is tinged with a little sadness but we
:54:10. > :54:12.must always aim for better and I welcome wholeheartedly the tone and
:54:13. > :54:16.spirit of the woods today. With this in mind would she agreed that it is
:54:17. > :54:20.crucial that all sectors are treated fairly in future negotiations and in
:54:21. > :54:25.the south-west where food, farming and agriculture are our biggest
:54:26. > :54:31.sector, this sector must not be sold or traded at the expense of other
:54:32. > :54:34.sectors. I say to my honourable friend we are working hard across
:54:35. > :54:37.all government departments to ensure that the interests of different
:54:38. > :54:43.parts of the United Kingdom are taken into account. We recognise the
:54:44. > :54:47.value of certain sectors and jobs varies according to different parts
:54:48. > :54:52.of the United Kingdom and there are parts in the south-west where food
:54:53. > :54:56.and farming are particularly important and I can assure her that
:54:57. > :55:05.we will be looking for a compromise package that will provide a good
:55:06. > :55:09.deal for everybody across the UK. In her letter to Donald Tusk, the Prime
:55:10. > :55:14.Minister says if we leave the European Union without agreement we
:55:15. > :55:18.would have to trade on WTO terms. In security terms of failure to reach
:55:19. > :55:23.agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and
:55:24. > :55:26.terrorism would be weakened. Is she really saying the security of our
:55:27. > :55:31.country will be traded like a bargaining chip in negotiations?
:55:32. > :55:37.It going to be trading the security of our country but have a
:55:38. > :55:41.relationship with the European Union. -- we are not going to be
:55:42. > :55:43.trading. There are certain parts of the European Union in Justice and
:55:44. > :55:49.home affairs that we are currently members of that leaving the European
:55:50. > :55:53.Union we would not be members of. We need to negotiate what that future
:55:54. > :55:58.membership would be. It is simple and pragmatic but the aim will be to
:55:59. > :56:02.ensure cooperation on these matters. May I welcome the Prime Minister's
:56:03. > :56:06.repeated use of the word pragmatic and her responses? Many of us
:56:07. > :56:10.believe that this country is at its very best when we are pragmatic
:56:11. > :56:13.rather than ideological. She mentioned the importance of
:56:14. > :56:18.cooperation in justice and home affairs. Was she also accept that
:56:19. > :56:24.cooperation in other aspects of judicial and legal services is also
:56:25. > :56:27.pretty important to underpin her priority with the financial services
:56:28. > :56:31.sector, so critical to any negotiation. My honourable friend is
:56:32. > :56:38.very right. The strength that our legal services have is an important
:56:39. > :56:41.part of the relationship and that is why the Lord Chancellor has been
:56:42. > :56:46.working with the judiciary to look at exactly those issues and how we
:56:47. > :56:52.can take those for to ensure the right level of cooperation the
:56:53. > :56:56.future. I thank the Prime Minister for a band site of the statement.
:56:57. > :57:01.She refers to the British spirit, and to a fairer and united Britain.
:57:02. > :57:08.But fairness is just that. The proper respect for all people from
:57:09. > :57:13.all parts of the islands. Not just taking into account specific
:57:14. > :57:16.incidents of nations and regions. Not just consulting about which
:57:17. > :57:21.powers should stay in Westminster and which should be whittled down as
:57:22. > :57:25.she drives through her extreme version of Brexit. As we leave the
:57:26. > :57:34.European Union, they must be a better way than just her way. He
:57:35. > :57:39.refers to my vision for Brexit. As I have made very clear, in this House
:57:40. > :57:43.this afternoon and elsewhere, we want to get that combines a free
:57:44. > :57:46.trade agreement, we want good security cooperation and good
:57:47. > :57:51.security on justice and home affairs matters. That is what is in the
:57:52. > :57:56.letter to President Task. I do not see that as an extreme view, I see
:57:57. > :58:00.that as a good deal for the United Kingdom. -- President Tusk. May I
:58:01. > :58:04.congratulate my right honourable friend on the very reasonable
:58:05. > :58:08.underlying tone in her letter to President Tusk today. My honourable
:58:09. > :58:14.friend will be aware that this is a day I have campaigned for 426 years.
:58:15. > :58:18.Will she with me that the dividend of restoring democracy to our
:58:19. > :58:22.institutions, in stopping a huge fiscal transfer to the EU and the
:58:23. > :58:28.potential for international trade deals are prizes that all across our
:58:29. > :58:35.country will benefit from in years to come. As I indicated earlier, I
:58:36. > :58:42.know that there are honourable honourable friend and others who
:58:43. > :58:47.have wanted this for a long time and he's absolutely right. What will
:58:48. > :58:51.delay the vote -- what underlay the vote was the feeling that the United
:58:52. > :58:55.Kingdom needed to have control of its budget and laws, control of
:58:56. > :59:04.immigration rules, and not just simply be subject to decisions taken
:59:05. > :59:10.in the EU. I am proud to be a member of the European Parliament, one of
:59:11. > :59:13.the first elected members in 1979 along with Boris Johnson's father,
:59:14. > :59:20.who I don't think shares the same views as Boris any longer. She has
:59:21. > :59:24.spoken about the role of the European Parliament this morning and
:59:25. > :59:28.I'm sure she will agree that it is one of three important institutions
:59:29. > :59:32.with whom negotiations will take place. At the end the European
:59:33. > :59:38.Parliament has the power of veto. And that is a very important power.
:59:39. > :59:43.-- at the end of the day, the European Parliament has. Is she
:59:44. > :59:47.agreeing that if the European Parliament invited her, as they do
:59:48. > :59:51.heads of state, to appear before the parliament to give her views and
:59:52. > :59:55.answer some of their questions, that she would agree to do so? The
:59:56. > :59:59.honourable lady is absolutely right, the European Parliament will play an
:00:00. > :00:03.important role in this. Obviously the structure of the negotiations
:00:04. > :00:05.that has been established is that the key negotiator will be the
:00:06. > :00:10.European Commission operating under the mandate of the EU Council, but
:00:11. > :00:13.the arrangements are made for interaction with the European
:00:14. > :00:21.Parliament as part of that as well. I know that heads of government are
:00:22. > :00:24.from time to time invited to address the European Parliament and were
:00:25. > :00:31.such an invitation to come, I would look at it very seriously. This is
:00:32. > :00:36.indeed a momentous day. On the half of all house, may I pass on our
:00:37. > :00:38.congratulations to our honourable friend the Member for Morley and
:00:39. > :00:46.Outwood on the birth of a baby boy this morning, Clifford George. The
:00:47. > :00:49.Prime Minister has spoken about more decision-making powers for the
:00:50. > :00:56.devolved assemblies. With that in mind, is now not the time to
:00:57. > :00:59.turbo-charge devolved powers to Yorkshire and the North and to put
:01:00. > :01:06.real backing into the northern powerhouse? I would like to
:01:07. > :01:14.congratulate the honourable member for Morley and Outwood on that great
:01:15. > :01:22.news. I would like to thank another honourable member who I think at
:01:23. > :01:31.some hand in the matter. LAUGHTER. WELL, HE HAD A ROLE, ANYWAY! . Thank
:01:32. > :01:36.you, Mr Speaker, I am glad I did not have to give clarification on your
:01:37. > :01:39.statement. I would like to thank both my honourable friend is on the
:01:40. > :01:42.birth of Clifford George this morning. I'm sure the whole house
:01:43. > :01:50.will send their best wishes to mother and father and to their baby
:01:51. > :01:57.son. It is of course, as others have indicated, important that we take
:01:58. > :02:03.consideration of the views of other part of United Kingdom. We an
:02:04. > :02:08.important deal around the country, devolution deals, with directly
:02:09. > :02:15.elected mayor is coming into place on the 4th of May. -- mayors. We
:02:16. > :02:18.will be looking to see how we can further boost the economy is around
:02:19. > :02:24.the whole of the United Kingdom, including the northern powerhouse
:02:25. > :02:30.and the Midlands engine. I was in Birmingham yesterday to discuss
:02:31. > :02:35.exactly that. I think it is time to hear Mr Phil Boswell from his feet.
:02:36. > :02:42.Having recently come from a Public Accounts Committee session about
:02:43. > :02:46.caring for people with learning difficulties, can the Prime Minister
:02:47. > :02:50.advise when the National Health Service will start receiving its
:02:51. > :02:55.extra ?350 million a week? I am pleased to say that of course we are
:02:56. > :02:59.putting more funding into the NHS and putting extra funding into
:03:00. > :03:02.social care as my right honourable friend the Chancellor announced in
:03:03. > :03:08.the budget. Decisions about how we spend our budget in the future, once
:03:09. > :03:11.we have completed this negotiation and left the European Union, will be
:03:12. > :03:19.decisions to be taken here in the United Kingdom. Mr Speaker, in less
:03:20. > :03:24.than half an hour, the Italian Foreign Secretary will be visiting
:03:25. > :03:29.Parliament to sign the book of condolence and lay some flowers on
:03:30. > :03:33.behalf of the Republic of Italy. Mr Speaker, can I warmly commend the
:03:34. > :03:37.Prime Minister's words in her statement. The first time that she
:03:38. > :03:42.said this to the House. Those other words that say, I will represent
:03:43. > :03:46.every person in the whole United Kingdom and yes, those EU nationals
:03:47. > :03:50.who have made this country their home. That includes my parents, my
:03:51. > :03:55.sister, some of my constituents and 3 million other EU nationals. I
:03:56. > :04:02.would like to thank the Prime Minister for using those warm words.
:04:03. > :04:06.Today marks a coming of age for her. She is showing this House and the
:04:07. > :04:13.country that she is the right leader at this moment is time for the
:04:14. > :04:18.country. I thank my honourable friend for his remarks. He has taken
:04:19. > :04:21.a particular interest in the position of EU citizens living here
:04:22. > :04:24.in the United Kingdom and I'm pleased to confirm that as I
:04:25. > :04:28.negotiate, I will be negotiating with everyone in the Kingdom
:04:29. > :04:35.including those EU citizens, and I have repeated in the letter to
:04:36. > :04:41.President Tusk, I hope will be able to at this issue of rights of
:04:42. > :04:45.citizens living here at an early stage of the negotiation. May I
:04:46. > :04:48.remind the Prime Minister that at one stage both she and I were
:04:49. > :04:55.remainders. I remain very much a Remainer. I am a passionate European
:04:56. > :05:00.and believe that she should take careful note that a large number of
:05:01. > :05:04.people this country valued European citizenship. Why? Because it
:05:05. > :05:09.delivered over many years peace, prosperity and security. Will she
:05:10. > :05:14.assure the House that those priorities will be maintained in all
:05:15. > :05:17.the negotiations going forward? I will suddenly say to the honourable
:05:18. > :05:21.gentleman that of course it is possible to be a passionate European
:05:22. > :05:26.without believing that the UK should be a member of the European Union.
:05:27. > :05:30.This is a difference in terms of the values that we share, working
:05:31. > :05:34.together cooperatively across Europe on the issues that he raises. And
:05:35. > :05:38.that is important. I believe, as these benches do, that the
:05:39. > :05:41.determinant for security and defence across Europe has been Nato. We
:05:42. > :05:49.continue to play a part in Nato but I recognise that those on the
:05:50. > :05:52.continent of Europe, that there are those on the continent reveal that
:05:53. > :05:55.the EU has been part of that process of delivering security and peace in
:05:56. > :05:58.the future. I want to ensure that we continue to work together so that we
:05:59. > :06:04.continue to see peace and security across our European continent. I
:06:05. > :06:12.think I will call the fellow wearing the Elgar tie. Although she did
:06:13. > :06:18.indeed support the Remainer side during the EU referendum campaign
:06:19. > :06:21.last year, nevertheless the Prime Minister has demonstrated
:06:22. > :06:30.outstanding leadership to our country in promoting the will of the
:06:31. > :06:33.British people. On this glorious day, recalling Edward Elgar, having
:06:34. > :06:38.campaigned to leave the common market myself in 1975, may I say to
:06:39. > :06:44.my old friend how much I salute her determination to unite the country
:06:45. > :06:48.in securing the very best deal, not only for the United Kingdom but for
:06:49. > :06:51.our European Parliament as well. I thank my honourable friend for his
:06:52. > :06:55.remarks and I know that he has been campaigning long and hard on this
:06:56. > :06:58.issue over the years. I think it is right that we come together now and
:06:59. > :07:05.get the best possible deal for the UK. I also want to put on record how
:07:06. > :07:08.proud I am of what we have achieved as members of the European Union,
:07:09. > :07:13.not just in terms of security and economy, but peace between our
:07:14. > :07:19.nations, which twice in the last century have been at war. We know
:07:20. > :07:22.there is more than one way to Brexit in the next two years will clearly
:07:23. > :07:28.be a big debate about the trade-offs we need to make. We know the Prime
:07:29. > :07:33.Minister wishes to ensure the future prosperity of Britain. So far, there
:07:34. > :07:35.have been no economic assessments of the government's plans. With the
:07:36. > :07:38.Prime Minister confirm that an economic assessment will be
:07:39. > :07:44.published with the final deal and that it will compare the outcomes
:07:45. > :07:49.expected, both with what we have now as with the prospect of no deal? The
:07:50. > :07:54.honourable lady ask me to make a comparison of what we have now. Of
:07:55. > :07:57.course we have decided to leave the European Union and therefore to
:07:58. > :08:00.change our relationship with the European Union. But we will make
:08:01. > :08:12.sure that when it comes to the vote in parliament that Parliament has
:08:13. > :08:15.the necessary information. This is a day for which neither I nor the vast
:08:16. > :08:18.majority of my constituents wanted to see but may I commend the Prime
:08:19. > :08:23.Minister for her statement and tone in a letter to President. I fully
:08:24. > :08:26.support the Prime Minister's objective in delivering a conference
:08:27. > :08:29.of free trade deal on goods and services with the EU and let's be
:08:30. > :08:34.clear, no deal would be a bad deal. What more can this House do to help
:08:35. > :08:42.deliver her aims in the interests of both Britain and the European Union?
:08:43. > :08:46.I think the task that this House will have of putting through
:08:47. > :08:50.necessary legislation, great repeal Bill and other legislation to be put
:08:51. > :08:52.through, will of course be an important part of that process of
:08:53. > :08:59.being able to deliver on the deal that we need at the end of this
:09:00. > :09:03.negotiation that we are entering into. I have every confidence that
:09:04. > :09:08.members from all parts of the House and all sides of the argument in the
:09:09. > :09:17.past will come together and will ensure that we work together to get
:09:18. > :09:22.the best possible deal. With a maximum now of 72 weeks to negotiate
:09:23. > :09:25.the UK EU trade deal, the future for Scotland is clear. It is
:09:26. > :09:30.independence in Europe or go it alone with Westminster. As the
:09:31. > :09:40.government thought of rejoining EFTA or will she go it alone and the
:09:41. > :09:43.original entity on its own, shared only with the Gulf of Guinea and
:09:44. > :09:50.some other countries. Because that is where she is taking the United
:09:51. > :09:54.Kingdom. I said right from the beginning that I believe that, given
:09:55. > :09:58.the position of the United Kingdom, we want to negotiate a deal that is
:09:59. > :10:02.right for the United Kingdom. That means not just ticking off the shelf
:10:03. > :10:05.an arrangement that other countries have, but actually asking what works
:10:06. > :10:09.for the UK and EU, given the relationship that we have that,
:10:10. > :10:12.given that we have been members of the European Union, given the size
:10:13. > :10:15.of our economy and given the benefits to us and the European
:10:16. > :10:19.Union of getting such a free trade deal.
:10:20. > :10:29.Can I warmly welcome the tone of the Prime Minister's letter to President
:10:30. > :10:35.Tusk and wish her every success in achieving free and frictionless
:10:36. > :10:38.trade, but when it comes to returning sovereignty to this
:10:39. > :10:46.parliament, will she undertake that she will limit entry Henry VIII
:10:47. > :10:52.powers and allow MPs to vote on legislation that will affect the
:10:53. > :10:59.future of their people? -- constituents? We will try to ensure
:11:00. > :11:04.we have the best way of putting legislation through the size to
:11:05. > :11:08.enable debate to take place. As we come to debates on the Great Repeal
:11:09. > :11:12.Bill that will be part of discussions but I also ask
:11:13. > :11:18.honourable members to recognise the many changes that need to take place
:11:19. > :11:23.that our technical changes that are not about policy but are necessary
:11:24. > :11:29.because of the intertwining of our legislation that if we are to ensure
:11:30. > :11:32.that when we come to leaving we can have that clean break and we have
:11:33. > :11:39.dealt with all the legislative consequences. I'm sure when the
:11:40. > :11:44.Prime Minister went to the polling station last June and cast her vote
:11:45. > :11:48.for Remain, she had at the forefront of her mind stability for British
:11:49. > :11:53.industry. In the recent bye election she wrote to thousands of my
:11:54. > :12:00.constituents highlighting the plan she said her party would have
:12:01. > :12:02.diverse ramekin industry. The ceramic factories in Stoke-on-Trent
:12:03. > :12:08.make the best pottery in the world but they need stability to reach
:12:09. > :12:13.their great targets, so can the Prime Minister confirm that our
:12:14. > :12:18.future relationship with the single market and the Customs Union will
:12:19. > :12:23.deliver exactly the same benefits as it does so when I return to
:12:24. > :12:29.Stoke-on-Trent I can give my major employers the confidence they need?
:12:30. > :12:35.The answer I give him will be the answer I have given the wrote the
:12:36. > :12:39.statement and in the past. We will be working for that comprehensive
:12:40. > :12:43.free trade agreement to allow the distance to trade freely with the
:12:44. > :12:49.European single market and in goods and services. That is what we want
:12:50. > :12:55.to achieve. I recognised the need for a business to have as much
:12:56. > :13:00.certainty as soon as possible. One thing in the latter which businesses
:13:01. > :13:05.have been asking for is the concept of the implementation period so they
:13:06. > :13:09.can put new arrangements in place and have notification of that, and
:13:10. > :13:16.that is what I suggested to President Tusk we should agree is a
:13:17. > :13:22.principle we abide by. A Canterbury knight, Sir Julian Brazier. In
:13:23. > :13:28.strongly welcoming my honourable friend's statement, could I welcome
:13:29. > :13:33.what she said about remaining good Europeans and will she agreed the
:13:34. > :13:38.fact we are committed to Nato and its 2%, we have troops deploying to
:13:39. > :13:45.neighbours in battle and we have troops fighting Daesh, shows just
:13:46. > :13:50.what a good European country we are? He makes an important point. It
:13:51. > :13:56.isn't about what we say but what we do and what we are doing in Nato,
:13:57. > :14:03.our commitments to eastern European allies and our work to counter Daesh
:14:04. > :14:08.are not just the military work but also our cooperation between
:14:09. > :14:12.intelligence services across Europe, all important symbols of our
:14:13. > :14:18.commitment to ensure we play our part in maintaining security in
:14:19. > :14:23.Europe. The Prime Minister stated she will not provide a running
:14:24. > :14:27.commentary on negotiations. Earlier this week in the Financial Times, it
:14:28. > :14:33.was stated that the unity of the 27th will be stronger aged on full
:14:34. > :14:38.transparency and debate, so what does it say about this so-called
:14:39. > :14:42.team approached that members of this Parliament and devolved governments
:14:43. > :14:48.across these islands are set to hear more about the outcome of those
:14:49. > :14:54.talks then those on -- from those on the other side of the negotiating
:14:55. > :14:59.table than from this Government? What I have said clearly is when we
:15:00. > :15:07.are able to provide clarity as we have until now, we will do so, but
:15:08. > :15:13.it is the case that if we're going to get the best deal for the UK, we
:15:14. > :15:19.should not reveal every detail of our hand at every stage in the
:15:20. > :15:25.negotiations. We will be looking to ensure that clarity and information
:15:26. > :15:30.are available where appropriate. Wyatts seeking to protect and
:15:31. > :15:35.enhance workers' writes, with the Prime Minister also seized the
:15:36. > :15:39.opportunity of ordered by leaving the EU for greater sectoral
:15:40. > :15:47.regulation, so businesses can create the prosperity we all need and on
:15:48. > :15:54.which our public services rely? At the point we leave, the key will be
:15:55. > :15:59.brought into UK law, to provide certainty but then it will be up to
:16:00. > :16:08.the UK Parliament to determine what regulations remain in place and what
:16:09. > :16:13.deregulation should take place? In her letter to Donald Tusk, the Prime
:16:14. > :16:19.Minister refers to the treaty of the EU and the atomic energy treaty. She
:16:20. > :16:25.makes no reference to the European economic area agreement which
:16:26. > :16:29.underpins our membership of the single market. When and how does the
:16:30. > :16:37.Prime Minister intend to withdraw us from the EEA? Membership of the EEA
:16:38. > :16:52.is linked to our member shot of the EU and start notification of leaving
:16:53. > :16:56.the EU covers also the EEA. Can I warmly congratulate my right
:16:57. > :17:01.honourable friend for carrying out the wishes of the majority of my
:17:02. > :17:09.constituents in Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottenham by triggering Article 50?
:17:10. > :17:14.Does she agree that while inevitably after 40 years of membership there
:17:15. > :17:19.could be difficult negotiations ahead, what matters is the big
:17:20. > :17:24.picture, but we are taking back control for this Parliament, control
:17:25. > :17:32.of our borders and of our contributions? There will be
:17:33. > :17:37.detailed negotiations but we must always remain and keep as our vision
:17:38. > :17:41.that big picture as he describes it that this is about control of our
:17:42. > :17:52.laws, borders and budgets, that is what people voted for. Michel
:17:53. > :17:56.Barnier, who will be involved in negotiations, has put Northern
:17:57. > :18:00.Ireland top of his agenda because he was involved in the negotiations to
:18:01. > :18:07.achieve a special European programme. Can the Prime Minister
:18:08. > :18:11.outlined how she will ensure the protections of our fragile economy
:18:12. > :18:14.in Northern Ireland to ensure there is Tara free access and continued
:18:15. > :18:22.access to the single European market which is vital to the growing
:18:23. > :18:28.economy on the island of Ireland? In overall terms negotiating a
:18:29. > :18:34.comprehensive free trade agreement with what we want to achieve, are
:18:35. > :18:39.free trade with the European single market, will cover the whole of the
:18:40. > :18:43.UK including Northern Ireland, but we are conscious because of the land
:18:44. > :18:49.border with the Republic that we have to look carefully at customs
:18:50. > :18:54.arrangements. We want to be have trade agreements with other
:18:55. > :18:58.countries around the world, that has implications in relation to the
:18:59. > :19:02.Customs Union that we are working with the Irish government to ensure
:19:03. > :19:07.arrangements can be put in place to maintain that the economy in
:19:08. > :19:10.Northern Ireland, and as the Taoiseach and others have said, we
:19:11. > :19:20.do not see a return to the borders of the past. May I commend my right
:19:21. > :19:25.honourable friend on the comments she made regarding the need for all
:19:26. > :19:31.of us to work together to secure the best possible need for our country
:19:32. > :19:36.at this momentous time? She will be aware of the decision by the Supreme
:19:37. > :19:40.Court, the unanimous decision that matters relating to relations with
:19:41. > :19:47.the EU are to be dealt with exclusively by the UK Government and
:19:48. > :19:53.UK Parliament and not a matter for the devolved in situations. Given
:19:54. > :19:57.that as a country we regularly speak to the rest of the world about the
:19:58. > :20:02.need to respect the rule of law, which she agree with me that it is
:20:03. > :20:11.oughtn't that politicians from all four nations of our country
:20:12. > :20:16.themselves respect the rule of law? I'm grateful to my honourable
:20:17. > :20:21.friend. It is indeed the case that the Supreme Court found there would
:20:22. > :20:24.be no veto for the devolved administrations but it is
:20:25. > :20:29.interesting that I understand we have an argument from the SNP that a
:20:30. > :20:35.decision to remain in the EU either Scottish voters should be dealt
:20:36. > :20:42.within a different way from the overall result of the referendum. In
:20:43. > :20:48.2014 when we had the referendum on membership of the UK in Scotland,
:20:49. > :20:54.the SNP argued the opposite, that the result as a whole was the only
:20:55. > :20:58.one that counted and if there were parts of Scotland like Orkney and
:20:59. > :21:05.Shetland who voted differently, that should not be taken into account.
:21:06. > :21:10.The Prime Minister has rightly spoken of in the day. Could she say
:21:11. > :21:17.specifically how she will respect and give voice to those people who
:21:18. > :21:24.have extreme anxiety and businesses about the direction the country is
:21:25. > :21:29.now embarked? We do want to give certainty to businesses and others
:21:30. > :21:34.as soon as possible on the arrangements that will be put in
:21:35. > :21:38.place but this will be a negotiation and there will be uncertainty, and
:21:39. > :21:43.we cannot take that uncertainty completely away, but we can't give
:21:44. > :21:51.clarity at stages where we are able to do so, as we have been in the
:21:52. > :21:54.last few months. I welcome the approach my right honourable friend
:21:55. > :22:02.is taking to secure a positive outcome. Does she agree that Brexit
:22:03. > :22:05.is a spur to action to tackle long-standing economic challenges
:22:06. > :22:11.about productivity, skills and export performance, and will then
:22:12. > :22:18.modern industrial strategy help in achieving these objectives? The vote
:22:19. > :22:22.was not just about leaving the EU but changing the way the country
:22:23. > :22:27.works for ever, getting that stronger economy, ensuring everyone
:22:28. > :22:34.plays by the same rules, ensuring it works for everyone and we see growth
:22:35. > :22:39.in every part of the UK, it is an important part of our plan for
:22:40. > :22:47.Britain and dark industrial strategy is at the heart of delivering that.
:22:48. > :22:53.Could the Prime Minister explain why in her long and detailed letter to
:22:54. > :22:59.President Tusk, which clearly took weeks to prepare, she somehow forgot
:23:00. > :23:08.to mention Gibraltar? Is it a case of out of sight, out of mind? We're
:23:09. > :23:11.absolutely steadfast in our support of Gibraltar and its people and the
:23:12. > :23:17.economy. Our position has not changed. We have been firm and our
:23:18. > :23:21.commitment to never enter arrangements under which the people
:23:22. > :23:26.of Gibraltar would pass to sovereignty of another state against
:23:27. > :23:31.their wishes, or enter into negotiations with which they are not
:23:32. > :23:38.content? The letters of negotiation in relation to our with drawing,
:23:39. > :23:45.Gibraltar is not a separate member of the EU nor is it part of the UK
:23:46. > :23:50.with reference to EU law but it is covered by our exit negotiations, we
:23:51. > :23:55.are committed to involving them and have been having regular discussions
:23:56. > :24:02.with the Government of Gibraltar and will work with them for the future.
:24:03. > :24:06.As a representative of a give the constituency which voted
:24:07. > :24:11.overwhelmingly to leave, I would like to congratulate the Prime
:24:12. > :24:19.Minister on her leadership on this historic day. Much of my beautiful
:24:20. > :24:23.constituency is rural farmland and the local farmland would like
:24:24. > :24:27.reassurance that their livelihoods will be protected as we leave the
:24:28. > :24:32.EU. Can my right honourable friend confirm she will do all she can to
:24:33. > :24:40.support British farming in the process of these negotiations? We
:24:41. > :24:43.have already been able to give some reassurance to farmers by the
:24:44. > :24:49.commitment we have in terms of funding until 2020, then we need to
:24:50. > :24:57.look at arrangements post the UK leaving the EU, but I can assure my
:24:58. > :25:00.honourable friend that the Secretary of State for the environment, Food
:25:01. > :25:04.and Rural Affairs is working with farmers in all parts of the UK to
:25:05. > :25:13.look at arrangements for the best way ahead. There is a big economic
:25:14. > :25:16.challenge ahead. Does the Prime Minister recognised that securing
:25:17. > :25:22.anything like the barrier free access to the single market will
:25:23. > :25:23.require some compromise to be found on the question of free movement of
:25:24. > :25:31.people? The decision was taken on the 23rd
:25:32. > :25:34.of June in relation to free movement was that it should be the free
:25:35. > :25:39.government -- UK Government that determines the free migration of
:25:40. > :25:43.people from the European Union to the United Kingdom. We will be
:25:44. > :25:46.pitching for proposals to this House in due course as to what the
:25:47. > :25:49.arrangements for the future should be but I have every confidence,
:25:50. > :25:52.because we are not going to stop immigration from the European Union
:25:53. > :25:59.coming into the United Kingdom, we recognise there will still be a need
:26:00. > :26:01.for people to come from the EU into the United Kingdom. But the
:26:02. > :26:06.important point will be that the rules governing that will be
:26:07. > :26:12.determined by the UK Government. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is right
:26:13. > :26:17.that the UK is leaving the institutions of the European Union,
:26:18. > :26:21.not Europe itself. She's also to talk of this country as global
:26:22. > :26:27.Britain. This nation is one of the world's leading aviation powers and
:26:28. > :26:31.a trading nation. Can I seek assurances that the importance of
:26:32. > :26:37.aviation, as we increasingly become a conduit between the rest of the
:26:38. > :26:40.world and Europe, will be paramount. Obviously the arrangements for
:26:41. > :26:46.aviation will be a key element of the negotiations as we take them
:26:47. > :26:50.forward. Both in terms of ensuring that we see no disruption to the
:26:51. > :26:54.aviation arrangements, but they are still able to continue to fly
:26:55. > :26:58.between the UK and other parts of the European Union in the way that
:26:59. > :27:01.they have done here and elsewhere in the world. But we recognise the
:27:02. > :27:05.importance of our aviation industry not just in terms of the airlines
:27:06. > :27:11.themselves and the work that they do, and our airports, but also the
:27:12. > :27:15.manufacturing that we have here in relation to the aviation industries
:27:16. > :27:24.is also important. There must be some relief from the toil of being a
:27:25. > :27:30.whip. The Prime Minister talked grandly about self-determination.
:27:31. > :27:40.Why is she so determined to not allow the Scottish people to
:27:41. > :27:43.exercise that very right? As I have said before, I think now is not the
:27:44. > :27:45.time to be talking about a second independence referendum and I would
:27:46. > :27:51.simply remind the honourable gentleman that in 2014 the SNP were
:27:52. > :28:01.clear that that was a once-in-a-lifetime vote. This is
:28:02. > :28:09.truly a red white and blue letter day. Shut up. It represents all of
:28:10. > :28:17.the constituent parts of United Kingdom including Scotland. Sending
:28:18. > :28:21.an ambassador was a nice touch, Brown Minister. In the letter you
:28:22. > :28:25.talk about the Brexit plans, the EU citizens living in the UK and the
:28:26. > :28:29.British citizens including Scots who live and work in other parts of the
:28:30. > :28:33.European Union. Another Prime Minister has said she will not give
:28:34. > :28:35.a running commentary on the negotiations but will she give an
:28:36. > :28:43.assurance that once a deal is reached, as far as the expats, she
:28:44. > :28:49.will inform them to ease the anxiety they are currently feeling. The
:28:50. > :28:53.point of trying to achieve a deal at an early stage is precisely so we
:28:54. > :28:56.can tell people the nature of that deal. So that they can have the
:28:57. > :29:02.reassurance and will not have to worry about their future. On days
:29:03. > :29:06.such as this, the prime ministers should speak for the whole country.
:29:07. > :29:11.She has chosen to speak for little more than half. Beyond empty
:29:12. > :29:15.rhetoric, what reassurances can she give to the 70% of my constituents
:29:16. > :29:19.who voted to remain and the one in six who are citizens of other EU
:29:20. > :29:27.countries who have real fears for their livelihoods, their businesses
:29:28. > :29:33.and their security? On the issue of EU citizens, as I have just
:29:34. > :29:36.indicated in answer to my right honourable friend, the question of
:29:37. > :29:41.the status of EU citizens living here and citizens living in the
:29:42. > :29:44.member states will be one that we hope to address at early stages of
:29:45. > :29:48.the negotiations so that we can give people that security and assurance
:29:49. > :29:50.of their future. And of course for businesses I recognise there will be
:29:51. > :29:55.a degree of uncertainty until the future arrangement has been
:29:56. > :29:59.concluded and they know what the future arrangement is going to be.
:30:00. > :30:02.We can give them, I hope, certainty that there will be able mentation
:30:03. > :30:05.periods so that there will not be a cliff edge for them but what they
:30:06. > :30:08.can be assured of is that we are going to try to ensure that we get
:30:09. > :30:15.the most brands of free trade deal possible. -- comprehensive free
:30:16. > :30:18.trade deal. Many people voted to leave the EU because they felt
:30:19. > :30:24.disengaged with politics and the institutions did not work with them.
:30:25. > :30:27.Over the next 18 months will the Prime Minister work to ensure that
:30:28. > :30:32.we retain a place in the world but also to deliver on our domestic
:30:33. > :30:37.agenda to ensure that people feel that our government is working for
:30:38. > :30:46.them? My my honourable friend makes an important point which is that
:30:47. > :30:49.holder will be important negotiations, it is important that
:30:50. > :30:53.the government will be putting together a domestic agenda for a
:30:54. > :30:57.stronger economy and fairer society, and that global outlook for the
:30:58. > :31:06.United Kingdom. The work we will be doing around the world will be an
:31:07. > :31:12.important part of that. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told us that
:31:13. > :31:15.Brexit meant Brexit. But now we see the Scottish Parliament voting for a
:31:16. > :31:24.second Scottish referendum will the Prime Minister realise and
:31:25. > :31:29.acknowledge that Scotref means Scotref and agreed to an application
:31:30. > :31:33.for a section 30. If we're going to make a success of Brexit, we need to
:31:34. > :31:37.pull together at this time and make sure we're getting the best possible
:31:38. > :31:44.deal for the United Kingdom. Scotland voted in September 2014 to
:31:45. > :31:49.remain a member the United Kingdom. I will draw members to my
:31:50. > :31:54.declaration of interest. I welcome the Prime Minister's statement and
:31:55. > :31:59.the tone, embracing the whole of United Kingdom, and emphasis on
:32:00. > :32:03.pursuing a Brexit that works for everyone. Can I seek reassurances
:32:04. > :32:08.that the agriculture and environment, so closely linked, will
:32:09. > :32:13.not become a sacrificial lamb in any future negotiations going forward,
:32:14. > :32:16.any future trade negotiations. We will in our trade negotiations with
:32:17. > :32:21.the European Union, but also with others around the world, we will be
:32:22. > :32:26.very conscious of the need to ensure that we respect the requirements
:32:27. > :32:30.both for the environment and also for our agriculture, food and
:32:31. > :32:34.farming industry here in the United Kingdom. I ensure my honourable
:32:35. > :32:40.friend that we will continue to maintain our commitment to both
:32:41. > :32:44.those issues. Can I congratulate the Prime Minister on her stamina in
:32:45. > :32:51.being at the dispatch box for two and a half hours. And that is only
:32:52. > :32:54.halfway through. At least at the home affairs committee we give a
:32:55. > :32:57.chair to sit down throughout the sessions. Anyway, the first of all
:32:58. > :33:06.congratulate her congratulate her on her appointment for a new national
:33:07. > :33:10.security adviser. Can I pressed her on the issue of policing and
:33:11. > :33:15.security issues? I know there are headlines in the letter to Donald
:33:16. > :33:19.Tusk but throughout these negotiations, will we remain a full
:33:20. > :33:23.member of Europol and will we have access to the criminal databases of
:33:24. > :33:29.the EU? And is that one of her ambitions, to retain that access
:33:30. > :33:32.when we leave the EU? While we remain a member of the European
:33:33. > :33:36.Union we will continue to have access and membership arrangements
:33:37. > :33:42.that we currently have for the various issues that the honourable
:33:43. > :33:44.gentleman the to. It will certainly be my expectation that we will be
:33:45. > :33:52.looking to negotiate continued access for information, in various
:33:53. > :33:55.ways like which we are currently sharing information with the
:33:56. > :33:58.European Union. That is not just in our interests, it is in the
:33:59. > :34:02.interests of the European Union. This is a great day for our country.
:34:03. > :34:11.As we take back full control of our national destiny. Historically, we
:34:12. > :34:14.have been a free trading nation am outward looking with a global
:34:15. > :34:21.perspective. Does the Brown Minister agree that that which is historic in
:34:22. > :34:25.our national DNA will stand us in good stead as we are going through
:34:26. > :34:30.these critical negotiations. -- does the Prime Minister. I absolutely
:34:31. > :34:33.agree and that is why I am optimistic and ambitious for our
:34:34. > :34:38.future. I think that outward looking spirit that we have always had will
:34:39. > :34:42.stand us in good stead. Can the Prime Minister confirm her
:34:43. > :34:47.understanding of what will need to happen on the European side to
:34:48. > :34:51.ratify the New Deal with the UK which we all want to see? Will there
:34:52. > :34:54.be a decision as part of the exit negotiations by the Council of
:34:55. > :34:57.Ministers and the commission or will it be something that requires
:34:58. > :35:03.ratification by every single remaining EU member state, sometimes
:35:04. > :35:06.including regional parliaments? Because clearly that could cause
:35:07. > :35:11.absurdity of one member state or poses the terms that we have
:35:12. > :35:16.negotiated for our exit. The extent to which any part of the deal
:35:17. > :35:19.requires full ratification from every single member state and from
:35:20. > :35:25.every constituent part of the European Union will vary according
:35:26. > :35:33.to the nation of the asset of the deal. Overall, it will be necessary
:35:34. > :35:37.for members of Parliament to ratify. For those of us who campaigned and
:35:38. > :35:44.voted for Brexit, not just last year but also in 1975, this is indeed a
:35:45. > :35:50.great day and one for celebration. 70% of my Cleethorpes constituents
:35:51. > :35:54.and in neighbouring Grimsley voted for Brexit last June. In part that
:35:55. > :35:58.was the continuing anger and resentment at the sell-out of the
:35:59. > :36:01.fishing industry in the original negotiations. The Brown Minister has
:36:02. > :36:11.reassured me that the fishing industry will be looked after but
:36:12. > :36:17.the associated seafood industry is very much dependent on the fishing
:36:18. > :36:20.industry. I have already met with industry leaders in my constituency
:36:21. > :36:25.who see both opportunities and concerns. Can she reassured me that
:36:26. > :36:31.the seafood processing industry will indeed be a key part of the
:36:32. > :36:34.negotiations? I can give my honourable friend the assurance that
:36:35. > :36:37.we don't just want to ensure we get a good future for the fishing
:36:38. > :36:40.industry, we want to ensure that the parts of the industry that rely on
:36:41. > :36:48.fishing will also have a good future here in the United Kingdom and we
:36:49. > :36:54.will be taking that into account. Thousands of EU nationals do
:36:55. > :36:58.essential and useful jobs in our agriculture and fishing sector. They
:36:59. > :37:03.still do not know what their status is going to be two years from now.
:37:04. > :37:08.The UK Government's position, is it so weak that they need to use these
:37:09. > :37:10.people as bargaining fodder in their negotiations? Why won't the Brown
:37:11. > :37:16.Minister make a goodwill gesture and guarantee their rights? -- the Prime
:37:17. > :37:23.Minister. As the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and as the
:37:24. > :37:27.Parliament of the United Kingdom, I think we should all have cared not
:37:28. > :37:31.just for citizens living here but for United Kingdom citizens living
:37:32. > :37:40.in the EU. We want to ensure reciprocal arrangements guaranteeing
:37:41. > :37:43.rights on both sides. I welcome the Prime Minister's clear commitments
:37:44. > :37:47.to a positive, constructive and respectful approach to the
:37:48. > :37:51.negotiations that lie ahead. Can I pressed her further, on behalf of
:37:52. > :37:54.the fishing community in my constituency and around the United
:37:55. > :37:58.Kingdom. She will know that in the past they have been badly let down
:37:59. > :38:04.during negotiations, so can she give an equally clear commitment that the
:38:05. > :38:11.fishing community will receive a sufficiently high priority during
:38:12. > :38:13.the negotiations ahead? I can confirm to my honourable friend that
:38:14. > :38:19.we are very conscious of the needs of the fishing industry. DEFRA has
:38:20. > :38:21.been talking with the fishing industry and the secretaries of
:38:22. > :38:28.state and others has been looking carefully at the arrangements and
:38:29. > :38:31.needs of the fishing industry, which will be an important part of our
:38:32. > :38:36.considerations in future. A number of people are very distressed and
:38:37. > :38:44.sad that we are leaving the European Union. Many did not vote for it,
:38:45. > :38:47.many did not even get a say in this decision, but they are the
:38:48. > :38:52.generation most greatly affected by it. What will the Prime Minister do
:38:53. > :38:56.to ensure that she listens to and engages with the next-generation? I
:38:57. > :39:00.think the honourable lady makes an important point because the
:39:01. > :39:04.decisions we take now about how we leave the European Union, about what
:39:05. > :39:08.our arrangements are in the future, how we do what we do here in the
:39:09. > :39:11.United Kingdom in terms of our industrial strategy and technical
:39:12. > :39:15.education, are about the next generation. I want to ensure that we
:39:16. > :39:18.are ambitious for the whole of the country and ambitious to ensure a
:39:19. > :39:24.bright future for the next generation. That is what the
:39:25. > :39:28.government will be working for. Can I thank my honourable friend for the
:39:29. > :39:32.resonant way she has pushed through the will of the British people. Does
:39:33. > :39:36.she agree with me that invoking Article 50, the logical conclusion
:39:37. > :39:42.to that will be regaining control of our destiny? That means that all the
:39:43. > :39:49.rules and regulations made to govern our lives will be made in this place
:39:50. > :39:54.or on these islands, and not by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. I
:39:55. > :39:57.think my honourable friend has put his finger on the issue which a
:39:58. > :40:01.thing led to many people voting to leave the European Union, which is
:40:02. > :40:05.what they wanted was to feel that decisions were being taken here in
:40:06. > :40:08.the United Kingdom about their future and not being taken in
:40:09. > :40:12.Brussels. From the ranks of the boisterous bunch of the SNP, I think
:40:13. > :40:19.we should hear a voice of serenity and good conduct.
:40:20. > :40:30.Thank you, Mr Speaker. The chair of the EU Constitutional committee has
:40:31. > :40:36.spoken clearly and I quote, we have also taken note of the fact that UK
:40:37. > :40:39.citizens vivid differently in Scotland and Northern Ireland and
:40:40. > :40:46.also in Gibraltar, nicking it clear the majority wish to be in the
:40:47. > :40:50.union, and it is difficult to imagine those differences could be
:40:51. > :40:56.ignored and discarded in the process of Brexit, so can I ask how our
:40:57. > :41:00.friends and partners in Europe are so clear about making our voices
:41:01. > :41:08.heard and the honourable member complete the ignores them? The
:41:09. > :41:14.Government is not completely ignoring and discarding voices. We
:41:15. > :41:20.are focusing on the best possible outcome for the whole UK and that
:41:21. > :41:27.best possible outcome, I look at it in terms of the events we want to
:41:28. > :41:32.achieve, that free trade agreement, I understood that was what the
:41:33. > :41:40.Scottish Government wanted to see, a comprehensive free trade agreement,
:41:41. > :41:43.and we will be working four. The food and drinks manufacturing sector
:41:44. > :41:49.is the largest manufacturing sector in the UK. It is innovative, a
:41:50. > :41:57.significant exporter and employs a lot of people, and it is also an
:41:58. > :42:00.area affected by EU law, so in the forthcoming negotiations will the
:42:01. > :42:04.Prime Minister is sensitive to the needs of the sector and ensure it
:42:05. > :42:12.can't compete on a level playing field? I can assure my honourable
:42:13. > :42:17.friend that we are listening to the voices of industrial sectors around
:42:18. > :42:21.the country to ensure we take account of the concerns they have as
:42:22. > :42:26.we look ahead to leaving the EU because we want to ensure we build
:42:27. > :42:31.on the success we have, he talks about innovation, we want to build
:42:32. > :42:38.on that so we will take those interests in account. The Prime
:42:39. > :42:43.Minister's letter to President Tusk states in security terms a failure
:42:44. > :42:48.to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against
:42:49. > :42:52.crime and terror would be weakened. Could she clarify, is she still
:42:53. > :42:59.threatening to walk away with no deal if she doesn't get the economic
:43:00. > :43:03.deal she wants? I go on to make it clear that not having agreements on
:43:04. > :43:08.these issues would not be in the interests of the UK and the EU and
:43:09. > :43:16.we should work to ensure we secure a deal. Can I thank the Prime Minister
:43:17. > :43:20.for her statement and will she confirmed that during the Brexit
:43:21. > :43:26.negotiation she will play attention to the concerns of people in
:43:27. > :43:29.Gibraltar, maintain the effective working border with Spain and these
:43:30. > :43:37.negotiations will not be used as a back door to discussions about
:43:38. > :43:40.sovereignty, given that Gibraltarians, unlike some, want to
:43:41. > :43:47.respect the result of the referendum? I can't give an
:43:48. > :43:52.assurance to my honourable friend, we have set a Joint Ministerial
:43:53. > :43:56.Council with the Government of Gibraltar to discuss their
:43:57. > :44:02.particular issues to make sure the concerns are taken into account as
:44:03. > :44:06.we enter these negotiations and we are committed to continue engaging
:44:07. > :44:12.with Gibraltar. The honourable member is a jovial jackanapes, let's
:44:13. > :44:29.hear from the fella. I do apologise. hear from the fella. I do apologise.
:44:30. > :44:34.No, once is enough. Enough! Even an ardent Remainer like me recognises
:44:35. > :44:39.we now have a golden opportunity to reshape immigration policy. The
:44:40. > :44:46.Prime Minister spoke of a truly global Britain so will she apply
:44:47. > :44:49.that principle and at the earliest opportunity remove international
:44:50. > :44:55.students from net migration targets and sent out a message we are
:44:56. > :45:00.welcome information, and also stem the plummeting tide of EU
:45:01. > :45:05.applications to our universities? Whether or not students are included
:45:06. > :45:12.in the net migration target is not a message about our country and how
:45:13. > :45:16.welcome people. We welcome students to this country but what we do in
:45:17. > :45:21.statistics is abide by the international definition which is
:45:22. > :45:26.used by countries around the world. We want to ensure the brightest and
:45:27. > :45:35.the best can come to the UK and get the value of our education. Could I
:45:36. > :45:38.welcome the Prime Minister's seven principles in her letter, especially
:45:39. > :45:45.the first about constructive and respectful engagement and about the
:45:46. > :45:49.importance of the relationship with the Republic of Ireland and the
:45:50. > :45:54.Belfast Agreement. Which she agree that to achieve the best possible
:45:55. > :46:01.outcome for all constituents, there should be a minimum of red lines and
:46:02. > :46:05.the maximum flexibility? A agree it's important to be flexible but
:46:06. > :46:13.the key thing is that in everything we do we put the British national
:46:14. > :46:17.interest first. I don't know that the Prime Minister is aware of the
:46:18. > :46:24.draft resolution published by the European Parliament which includes a
:46:25. > :46:28.recognition that a large number of UK citizens, including a majority in
:46:29. > :46:35.Scotland and Northern Ireland, voted to remain in the EU. It doesn't
:46:36. > :46:38.mention Maidenhead, perhaps because the people of Maidenhead did not
:46:39. > :46:44.have a referendum where they were told that voting to remain in the UK
:46:45. > :46:52.would also mean remaining in the EU. The SNP cannot have it all ways
:46:53. > :46:58.because they wanted to leave the UK, which would have meant leaving the
:46:59. > :47:03.EU. I welcome how the Prime Minister has taken forward the will of the
:47:04. > :47:08.British people, including my constituents. In relation to
:47:09. > :47:16.fighting extremism, in 2014 there were 20 Daesh inspired terror acts
:47:17. > :47:21.around the world and in 2015 there were 60 such events. The UK has
:47:22. > :47:27.always had open intelligence sharing with our partners around the world,
:47:28. > :47:31.and there is a moral obligation for every international partner where
:47:32. > :47:35.they have that information to prevent a terror attack to provide
:47:36. > :47:42.that to their partner because we are all in it together. We are working
:47:43. > :47:48.together to fight terror and many of the exchanges on terrorism matters
:47:49. > :47:55.are not part of EU structures. Agriculture is devolved to the Welsh
:47:56. > :48:00.Government. Can the Prime Minister confirm whether any repeat region to
:48:01. > :48:08.powers in this area will also transferred to the Welsh Government?
:48:09. > :48:13.There are powers devolved to the administrations, if they are subject
:48:14. > :48:19.to decisions taken in the EU, so once we leave those would come to
:48:20. > :48:23.the UK. We want an open discussion with devolved administrations to
:48:24. > :48:30.ensure we keep a single market operating in the EU -- in the UK,
:48:31. > :48:36.but it is our expect patient that we will see significant increased
:48:37. > :48:42.decision-making powers moving to the devolved administrations when we
:48:43. > :48:48.leave. Today we embark on a journey which is undoubtedly motivated in
:48:49. > :48:52.part by a desire to control immigration but as we sit here,
:48:53. > :48:58.entire swathes of our country, public services and the economy, are
:48:59. > :49:04.dependent on hard-working EU migrants to function. In seeking to
:49:05. > :49:08.control immigration many people here want to seek lower levels of
:49:09. > :49:12.immigration but it will not be possible in practice until we reform
:49:13. > :49:16.our welfare state and education system so we can replace our
:49:17. > :49:25.reliance on foreign Labour with more local talent. We need to ensure that
:49:26. > :49:30.people in the UK have the skills and incentives to take up the jobs
:49:31. > :49:36.available, so bidders is here to not find it so necessary to rely on
:49:37. > :49:42.people from abroad. We recognise the valuable contribution that EU
:49:43. > :49:47.citizens are making to society here and we want to take the interests of
:49:48. > :49:55.business into account as we shape our immigration laws for the future.
:49:56. > :49:59.The Prime Minister's letter refers to doing nothing to jeopardise the
:50:00. > :50:04.peace process and the need to uphold the Belfast Agreement. Though she
:50:05. > :50:10.recognised the Belfast Agreement exists in several strands, including
:50:11. > :50:14.a framework for all Ireland cooperation, North-South joint
:50:15. > :50:18.implementation in key areas that presumed that would all happen in
:50:19. > :50:23.the context of common membership of the EU, so if that strength is not
:50:24. > :50:29.to be diminished and the agreement not damaged, how will the Government
:50:30. > :50:32.do that well saying there can be no differential treatment for Northern
:50:33. > :50:39.Ireland either inside the UK or by the EU? They cannot put that red
:50:40. > :50:45.line down in respect of Northern Ireland's prospects. We are
:50:46. > :50:51.conscious of the arrangements in the Belfast Agreement and the practical
:50:52. > :50:56.issues arising from the UK leaving the EU because of that land border
:50:57. > :51:01.with the Republic of Ireland. We're conscious of the work across border
:51:02. > :51:07.between Northern Ireland and the Republic, across a variety of areas,
:51:08. > :51:11.so we are working closely with the Irish government to ensure we can
:51:12. > :51:16.preserve the developments that have taken place and the progress made in
:51:17. > :51:19.Northern Ireland and we recognise the importance of the Belfast
:51:20. > :51:27.Agreement in that peace process and the future of Northern Ireland. Not
:51:28. > :51:33.to be last on these benches is a great honour indeed. Would my right
:51:34. > :51:39.honourable friend join me in thanking all those who have done so
:51:40. > :51:44.much to increased the prosperity and liberty of the European continent
:51:45. > :51:49.over 40 years? We should remember the change we have seen is so great
:51:50. > :51:53.that the president of the EU was a man born under tyranny who now leads
:51:54. > :52:00.an impressive union which we have chosen to leave, but like the great
:52:01. > :52:05.democrat he is, he has taken the will of the British people quietly
:52:06. > :52:07.and sensibly and is working with our government to ensure the Prime
:52:08. > :52:13.Minister can deliver what people voted for. Will she join me in
:52:14. > :52:19.hoping that this town of friendship which she has shown today and in her
:52:20. > :52:23.letter and that President Tusk has demonstrated in his reception of it,
:52:24. > :52:30.will continue through both negotiating teams and all ministers?
:52:31. > :52:37.I agree it is important that they're looking at this negotiation in every
:52:38. > :52:41.letter, it is important we maintain that positive approach, I think that
:52:42. > :52:48.is the best way of getting a good agreement at the end of it. On the
:52:49. > :52:53.23rd of June my constituency were not asked if they wanted to leave
:52:54. > :52:59.the single market or the Customs Union. In the event of not reaching
:53:00. > :53:03.a camera free trade agreement with the EU, why does she agree
:53:04. > :53:11.membership of the EU market and Customs Union is better than no Deal
:53:12. > :53:14.or a bad deal? Constituents were asked whether they wanted to remain
:53:15. > :53:20.members of the EU with everything that membership entails. The
:53:21. > :53:28.majority of people across the UK decided to vote to leave the EU.
:53:29. > :53:32.That has an of consequences and we want to negotiate that comprehensive
:53:33. > :53:37.free trade agreement which will provide for continuing free trade
:53:38. > :53:44.between the UK and the EU that it will be a different relationship in
:53:45. > :53:48.future. I am sure there is no dishonour in being last on these
:53:49. > :53:55.benches. Last week a new car factory was opened in my constituency with a
:53:56. > :54:02.?300 million new investment to build a new London taxi. Will the Prime
:54:03. > :54:06.Minister ensure that the outcome of Article 50 negotiations will allow
:54:07. > :54:12.the UK to secure this kind of valuable inward investment? I'm
:54:13. > :54:17.pleased to say we have seen significant commitments to inward
:54:18. > :54:25.investment both in the automotive industry over recent months and in
:54:26. > :54:30.things like the Softbank takeover of Arm and in the UK and Qatar business
:54:31. > :54:37.investment conference, Qatar is committing to setting up a ?5
:54:38. > :54:46.million fund to invest in our infrastructure in the UK. Can I say
:54:47. > :54:51.respectfully to the Prime Minister that she talks about self did
:54:52. > :54:54.termination, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and
:54:55. > :55:01.will the Prime Minister please respect that the people of this
:55:02. > :55:06.couple and voted to remain within Europe? Are democratically elected
:55:07. > :55:11.parliament has now voted and is seeking a section 30 agreement from
:55:12. > :55:15.this Government so that people of Scotland, on the basis we are being
:55:16. > :55:22.dragged out of the EU against our will, have our right to say, and to
:55:23. > :55:25.quote back to bust the 2014 referendum is disrespectful because
:55:26. > :55:30.we were told our place in Europe was secure. Do the right thing, allow
:55:31. > :55:38.the people of Scotland to have their say. I assume the honourable
:55:39. > :55:47.gentleman was voting to leave the UK in that referendum and that would
:55:48. > :55:52.have been a vote to leave the EU. While benefiting from free trade in
:55:53. > :55:56.goods and services come we also benefit from free flow of data
:55:57. > :56:02.across borders. In the nightmare scenario of Brexit without a data
:56:03. > :56:06.agreement in place, British businesses would have to renegotiate
:56:07. > :56:11.millions of contracts with the EU, so is it the Prime Minister's
:56:12. > :56:18.understanding that we could not begin those negotiations until we
:56:19. > :56:24.Brexit, so is preparing for those negotiations key for the British
:56:25. > :56:28.economy? We recognise that the exchange of data is an issue we have
:56:29. > :56:33.to address because it underpins so much that happens, as she won't know
:56:34. > :56:39.the right new arrangements being brought into place in the EU in
:56:40. > :56:44.terms of the directive. We will have to ensure that when we leave we have
:56:45. > :56:49.arrangements in place to enable the necessary flow of data and I expect
:56:50. > :56:56.that to be part of negotiations going forward. The European
:56:57. > :57:03.Commission has confirmed into solutions will be complete by autumn
:57:04. > :57:07.2018 and the Brexit resolution includes acknowledging that a
:57:08. > :57:13.majority of people in Scotland voted to stay in the EU. The will of the
:57:14. > :57:17.Scottish people was expressed for the transfer of powers to hold a
:57:18. > :57:24.legal referendum, compatible with the Prime Minister, the EU and the
:57:25. > :57:32.First Ministerspublicly expressed timetables. We have seen the EU
:57:33. > :57:36.figures and institutions in respect to Scotland's Democratic voice, so
:57:37. > :57:44.when will this Prime Minister respect them? I can only repeat what
:57:45. > :57:50.I said, now is not the time for a second independence referendum. It's
:57:51. > :57:54.important we work together to ensure we get the best possible deal for
:57:55. > :58:02.everyone across the UK, including the people of Scotland. The Prime
:58:03. > :58:07.Minister expresses confidence that a free trade agreement with the EU
:58:08. > :58:11.would be secured or she will know any trade agreement requires a
:58:12. > :58:15.mechanism to resolve disputes. She doesn't like the European Court of
:58:16. > :58:21.Justice, so what did she want to put in its place and how much will it
:58:22. > :58:27.cost? If you have a free-trade agreement it is important to have a
:58:28. > :58:35.resolution body in place, and this will be part of negotiations. In her
:58:36. > :58:39.letter, the Prime Minister promised that negotiations will take due
:58:40. > :58:45.account of the specific interests of every region of the UK, so can she
:58:46. > :58:51.tell us who's advice she will listen to two inch she is fully appraised
:58:52. > :58:56.of the specific interests of the region of which my constituency
:58:57. > :59:02.forms a part? We will work with the devolved administrations but also
:59:03. > :59:09.listen to businesses and others across the UK as they make clear to
:59:10. > :59:12.us their interrupts. I supported the remain campaign in the referendum
:59:13. > :59:18.but unlike the Prime Minister I'd have been consistent in my view of
:59:19. > :59:23.how damaging Brexit will be, while she carriers towards hard Brexit,
:59:24. > :59:30.presumably a prisoner of the ideological Brexiteers on her own
:59:31. > :59:34.benches. Can I ask about agencies that there will need to be
:59:35. > :59:39.established, has she identified how many we will need to have up and
:59:40. > :59:46.running and whether we will have the capacity to staff them? His role in
:59:47. > :59:51.the premise when he says the Government is going for a hard
:59:52. > :59:58.Brexit. We are not. I was clear in my statement today and in everything
:59:59. > :00:02.in this chamber, we are looking for a comprehensive free trade agreement
:00:03. > :00:10.with the EU. I believe we can achieve that. When will Scotland
:00:11. > :00:16.receive the enhanced powers including over emigration promised
:00:17. > :00:26.by the dense Secretary of State for Justice? In terms of powers that
:00:27. > :00:30.have been repatriated to the UK from Brussels, we will enter discussions
:00:31. > :00:35.with the devolved administrations about how those powers should best
:00:36. > :00:39.be dealt with, whether they should remain in terms of UK frameworks or
:00:40. > :00:44.be further evolved, but there will be significant decision making
:00:45. > :00:51.powers coming to the devolved administrations? Eye with the Prime
:00:52. > :00:57.Minister well in these negotiations. She carries a heavy burden on her
:00:58. > :01:01.shoulders, the hopes of millions of people across the UK who look
:01:02. > :01:07.forward to a bright future outside the EU, free from the Dick patient
:01:08. > :01:12.of how our laws come and how our money is spent, and can I welcome
:01:13. > :01:16.the fact her ministers have spent so much time on dealing with the issue
:01:17. > :01:22.of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, but during
:01:23. > :01:30.these negotiations we may not have worked in Northern Ireland Assembly.
:01:31. > :01:32.Can she tell us how the interrupts of Northern Ireland will be
:01:33. > :01:41.represented during the ongoing negotiations? I would hope we can
:01:42. > :01:46.ensure we do have a Northern Ireland Assembly in place, so we are able to
:01:47. > :01:52.have that interlocutor in Northern Ireland as we go forward and take
:01:53. > :01:57.the views of Northern Ireland Ford, and it's in all our interests to
:01:58. > :02:01.work for that devolved government, not just for that reason but because
:02:02. > :02:06.I think it is right for Northern Ireland. In the absence of such a
:02:07. > :02:10.government we will continue to talk to political parties in Northern
:02:11. > :02:17.Ireland would also take wider views from businesses and others about
:02:18. > :02:25.their concerns for their interests within Northern Ireland and other
:02:26. > :02:29.parts of the UK. For weeks the Prime Minister May it abundantly clear she
:02:30. > :02:34.did not want the Scottish Parliament to vote in favour of a referendum on
:02:35. > :02:38.independence, no one could have been left in any doubt as to her position
:02:39. > :02:45.in this matter, but given that the Scottish parliament last night by
:02:46. > :02:49.unambiguous majority in favour of a referendum on independence,
:02:50. > :02:57.regardless of her personal preference and recognising her
:02:58. > :03:00.commitment for constructive and respectful dialogue, will the Prime
:03:01. > :03:09.Minister now respect that democratic decision? He is right, the Scottish
:03:10. > :03:15.parliament was clear when it came to consider this issue, and as he says
:03:16. > :03:20.there was a majority in favour of Article 30 but I was clear that now
:03:21. > :03:26.is not the time for a second independence referendum, now is the
:03:27. > :03:33.time for the UK to come together and focus on the historic decision that
:03:34. > :03:38.we have taken and the negotiations we now have to ensure the right deal
:03:39. > :03:45.for the whole UK, including the people of Scotland. The Prime
:03:46. > :03:50.Minister said in July at the same time as promising a UK wide
:03:51. > :03:55.agreement that she wanted to make this country work for everyone. This
:03:56. > :04:01.week we see cuts to disability support in the shape of employment
:04:02. > :04:06.allowance, so can she explain how Brexit Britain will be in need
:04:07. > :04:12.different in delivering the socially just society she keeps promising? I
:04:13. > :04:18.have set out my plans for a fairer society and looking ahead to the
:04:19. > :04:24.various things we will put in place to ensure we have a society where
:04:25. > :04:27.people can succeed on merit not privilege, a stronger economy where
:04:28. > :04:34.people played by the same rules that he mentions welfare, powers relating
:04:35. > :04:42.to welfare have been given to the Scottish Government and I understand
:04:43. > :04:48.they have yet to use them. This morning I witnessed a construction
:04:49. > :04:56.worker telling some eastern European workers that you lot can go home
:04:57. > :05:00.now. Without guarantees to EU national friends, colleagues and
:05:01. > :05:07.family, this is behaviour and rhetoric will only increase. So it
:05:08. > :05:13.does the Prime Minister agreed that this is the time to show leadership
:05:14. > :05:18.in granting unilaterally the rights of our EU national friends asked
:05:19. > :05:26.Mike xenophobic behaviour. None of us want to see xenophobic saviour in
:05:27. > :05:31.the UK, EU citizens have worked alongside us and contribute to our
:05:32. > :05:36.economy and society, but then looking ahead I want to ensure a
:05:37. > :05:42.reciprocal agreement for EU citizens here, the honourable lady shakes her
:05:43. > :05:51.head. We have a duty to have a care for EU citizens. The Prime
:05:52. > :05:58.Minister's commitment to get the best possible deal for the UK offers
:05:59. > :06:02.little reassurance to rural Scotland because they're experienced from the
:06:03. > :06:08.allocation of convergence, farm payments, two Scottish fishing being
:06:09. > :06:14.expendable, shows where they are on a Conservative government priority
:06:15. > :06:19.list. We understand the need for EU frameworks but could she offer
:06:20. > :06:22.reassurance by confirming the powers over Scottish agriculture and
:06:23. > :06:26.fishing will go to the Scottish parliament and that Scottish
:06:27. > :06:36.officials will represent Scottish interests in negotiations? We want
:06:37. > :06:42.to ensure we have a single market continuing within the UK, but as has
:06:43. > :06:49.been clear from the honourable gentleman speaks up for Scottish
:06:50. > :06:55.fishing, and I can assure him that agriculture and fishing will be
:06:56. > :07:02.issues we take into account, recognising their importance for the
:07:03. > :07:08.whole UK. Given the Prime Minister earlier compared the nation of
:07:09. > :07:13.Scotland to the kids of Maidenhead, does she understand the UK is
:07:14. > :07:19.composed of four nations and not one? Can she outline for us today
:07:20. > :07:25.what practical concessions the UK Government has made to the devolved
:07:26. > :07:30.government's concerns as part of the UK wide approach to article 54 is it
:07:31. > :07:36.a case of lemmings unite as we leap off the Brexit cliff together?
:07:37. > :07:42.There is a very simple point which is that across the United Kingdom
:07:43. > :07:47.people voted in different ways at the referendum, but the majority of
:07:48. > :07:51.the United Kingdom electorate voted to leave the European Union and the
:07:52. > :07:55.government is respecting that vote. And we will continue to work with
:07:56. > :07:59.the devolved administrations. We have taken into account that there
:08:00. > :08:02.are many areas where we have common ground with the Scottish Government
:08:03. > :08:06.in wanting a copper hands of access to the European single market. In
:08:07. > :08:10.wanting to protect workers' rights and recognise the importance of
:08:11. > :08:13.science and innovation. In all those, we have had common ground
:08:14. > :08:17.with the Scottish Government but it is unfortunate they do not seem to
:08:18. > :08:23.recognise where we do have common ground with them and are unable and
:08:24. > :08:28.unwilling to acknowledge that. Today's statement is full of
:08:29. > :08:32.cliches, platitudes and jingoism but no answers. When will the government
:08:33. > :08:38.of Scotland, democratically elected to represent the nation of Scotland,
:08:39. > :08:42.a nation devoted to remain in the EU, be given an opportunity to
:08:43. > :08:47.contribute to supplying the facts and figures that are so lacking. He
:08:48. > :08:54.has had one vacuous vowel and we do not need another one. -- vacuous
:08:55. > :08:58.vow. He talks about representation in Scotland and he and his
:08:59. > :09:05.colleagues represent Scottish constituencies in the UK Parliament
:09:06. > :09:09.of which he is a constituent part. In an act of self determination, the
:09:10. > :09:13.Scottish Parliament yesterday voted to hold an independence referendum.
:09:14. > :09:16.The Prime Minister has repeatedly said, no will not be the time.
:09:17. > :09:24.Nobody is planning to hold a referendum now. If I may paraphrase
:09:25. > :09:31.Ruth Davidson, or part of now does she not understand? -- what part of
:09:32. > :09:33.now. I will say to the honourable gentleman that I have answered
:09:34. > :09:40.questions on this thread this afternoon and my position has not
:09:41. > :09:45.changed. Thank you, Mr Speaker, while the Prime Minister was
:09:46. > :09:48.deliberate killing -- delivering her Battenberg addressed earlier, she
:09:49. > :09:52.indicated that she would continue to ignore Scotland but is she aware of
:09:53. > :09:56.the comments of Tory SMP Annie Welles who says she does not respect
:09:57. > :10:01.the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament? And will she distance
:10:02. > :10:04.herself from those remarks? Can I say to the honourable gentleman that
:10:05. > :10:08.I did not say I would ignore the views of Scotland. In fact, in the
:10:09. > :10:11.letter sent to President Tusk, we make it clear that the views of all
:10:12. > :10:19.constituent parts of the UK will be taken into account in our
:10:20. > :10:25.negotiations. As the Prime Minister has had difficulty with
:10:26. > :10:27.constitutional issues, let me ask another question about workers'
:10:28. > :10:33.rights. Can the Prime Minister pledged that employment rights for
:10:34. > :10:36.women, that derive from EU legislation and ECJ rulings in
:10:37. > :10:40.relation to equal pay, pregnancy, maternity and protection against
:10:41. > :10:44.termination, will be retained and if so, can she outline the process is
:10:45. > :10:49.to maintain those protections? In the speech that I set out in
:10:50. > :10:55.Lancaster house, that I gave in January, I set out the key part of
:10:56. > :10:59.our negotiations and workers' rights was a key part of that speech. In
:11:00. > :11:02.further statements today and at other times, I have been clear that
:11:03. > :11:09.this government wants to protect workers' rights and enhance workers'
:11:10. > :11:12.rights. Many thanks, Mr Speaker. Ploughing on regardless, does the
:11:13. > :11:16.Prime Minister simply feel that she can ride roughshod over the will of
:11:17. > :11:21.the Scottish people on the EU and now the mandate of the Scottish
:11:22. > :11:28.Government? Is the Prime Minister in denial or is this a deliberate
:11:29. > :11:31.policy of disrespect? There is no question of riding roughshod over
:11:32. > :11:35.the votes of anybody in the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom held a
:11:36. > :11:35.referendum. This Parliament agreed that
:11:36. > :11:44.the decision of leaving the European Union or not should be given to the
:11:45. > :11:48.British people, people across all of the United Kingdom. They were given
:11:49. > :11:51.that referendum and they chose to vote to leave the European Union and
:11:52. > :12:02.the government is now respecting the result that referendum. Despite
:12:03. > :12:07.having a majority in this House, there are a few facts are Prime
:12:08. > :12:12.Minister needs to remember. In 2015, firstly the Tories only got 36% of
:12:13. > :12:19.the vote in the UK. They got less than 15% of the vote in Scotland and
:12:20. > :12:22.only one MP. Their worst performance since 1855. Last year, in the
:12:23. > :12:27.Scottish Parliament election, the Ruth Davidson party was still only
:12:28. > :12:30.third in the constituency votes. By contrast, the SNP government was
:12:31. > :12:39.re-elected with the biggest vote share of any government in the
:12:40. > :12:48.Europe. Within the manifesto, a to hold a referendum in Scotland. Why
:12:49. > :12:52.then, and she says she has answered this question, does she think that
:12:53. > :12:54.she can continue to stand at the dispatch box with no mandate in
:12:55. > :13:02.Scotland and take control of the timing of the referendum? This is
:13:03. > :13:05.the United Kingdom Parliament, and as the banister of the United
:13:06. > :13:10.Kingdom, I have said and I continue to say that I think that now is not
:13:11. > :13:15.the time for a second independence referendum. -- as the Prime Minister
:13:16. > :13:19.of the United Kingdom. What we should be focusing on at this time
:13:20. > :13:26.is working to ensure that we get the best deal for the whole of the
:13:27. > :13:31.United Kingdom as we leave the EU. In both her statement today and in
:13:32. > :13:34.her letter to President Tusk, the Prime Minister speaks of the
:13:35. > :13:37.expectation that devolved government powers will be increased. I am sure
:13:38. > :13:41.she will want to honour the promises made to win the referendum so can
:13:42. > :13:45.she confirmed that one of the powers devolved to Scotland will include
:13:46. > :13:50.immigration as promised by the Justice Secretary during the
:13:51. > :13:52.campaign or is now not the time? The honourable gentleman will be aware
:13:53. > :13:56.that the issue of immigration was one that was looked at in the Smith
:13:57. > :14:01.Commission and it is not determined to be one of the issues that was
:14:02. > :14:05.delegated. But I repeat what I have said in a letter and I have said
:14:06. > :14:09.here again today, that as a result of the repatriation powers we will
:14:10. > :14:12.see significant decision-making powers being given to the devolved
:14:13. > :14:26.administrations over and above what they have today. The stated position
:14:27. > :14:32.of the UK Government was that the UK is a family of nations, a
:14:33. > :14:36.partnership of equals. Why, then, is the UK Prime Minister and her
:14:37. > :14:40.Secretary of State for Scotland so disrespectful to the people and
:14:41. > :14:48.Parliament of Scotland, and why are they running so scared of a Scottish
:14:49. > :14:52.referendum 18 months to two years down the line? There is no
:14:53. > :14:55.disrespect for anybody. But the raises respect for putting into
:14:56. > :15:05.place a vote that was taken by the people of the United Kingdom on the
:15:06. > :15:09.23rd of June last year. Last year, the Prime Minister gave her word
:15:10. > :15:12.that she would seek an agreed United Kingdom approach on Brexit with the
:15:13. > :15:18.devolved administrations. In order to assist us in making a judgment
:15:19. > :15:23.about what the word is worth, can I ask her to give this House a single
:15:24. > :15:26.example of a suggestion or request made by the Scottish Government
:15:27. > :15:33.which she has taken on board? A single one, anyone. I have already
:15:34. > :15:37.set out that there are many areas of issues that the Scottish Government
:15:38. > :15:44.has raised in their paper on which we agree. As will become clearer
:15:45. > :15:52.when we respond to that paper. Order. Patience rewarded. Thank you,
:15:53. > :15:55.Mr Speaker. I wonder how the Prime Minister would have responded if
:15:56. > :16:01.Donald Tusk and simply said that now is not the time. -- if Donald Tusk
:16:02. > :16:04.had simply said. I think the honourable gentleman with his
:16:05. > :16:07.background will know that the Treaty on the European Union enables the
:16:08. > :16:10.member states to trigger Article 50 in the way that we have done and it
:16:11. > :16:18.is then for the European Union to respond to that by sitting out the
:16:19. > :16:21.basis -- setting out of the basis of two years of negotiation. Order,
:16:22. > :16:25.order. We will come to a point of order in a moment but first of all
:16:26. > :16:29.can I thank all 113 backbench members to question the Prime
:16:30. > :16:33.Minister and can I thank the Prime Minister, who has been with us for
:16:34. > :16:40.the last three hours and 21 minutes, attending to this statement for the
:16:41. > :16:44.last two hours and 46 notes. I think in the name of courtesy, we ought to
:16:45. > :16:51.say a big thank you to the Prime Minister. Point of order, Mr Tom
:16:52. > :16:54.Brady. Mr Speaker, the Liberal Democrats believe that Brexit will
:16:55. > :16:58.cause untold damage to the UK's economy and influence in the world.
:16:59. > :17:03.But the government has triggered Article 50 so we will do all in our
:17:04. > :17:08.power to ensure that it is a success. Mr Speaker, if it is not a
:17:09. > :17:16.success, what guidance can you give me on how those responsible for any
:17:17. > :17:21.such damage, the Prime Minister, the secretary straight for common
:17:22. > :17:26.affairs, and exiting the EU, will truly be held to account in this
:17:27. > :17:30.House for their actions and for their failure, and that the blame
:17:31. > :17:36.will simply not be shifted to the Remainer is, the European Union or
:17:37. > :17:39.anybody else they choose to blame? I do not wish to be unkind to the
:17:40. > :17:43.right honourable gentleman who has served as a deputy leader of this
:17:44. > :17:49.has no less. Possibly say to the honourable gentleman, two things,
:17:50. > :17:53.first of all I am not all wary of entertaining hypotheticals, and at
:17:54. > :17:58.the moment, the right honourable gentleman, perfectly legitimately,
:17:59. > :18:02.is using the ruse of a point of order to raise a hypothetical. That
:18:03. > :18:05.is the first point. The second point is, and the right honourable
:18:06. > :18:09.gentleman knows this, all members of this House have not only a right
:18:10. > :18:14.but, frankly, a responsibility on whichever side of the House they
:18:15. > :18:20.sit, to hold the executive to account. That is a primary function
:18:21. > :18:23.of a member of Parliament, and all I can say to the right honourable
:18:24. > :18:31.gentleman is that however this situation evolves, he can rest
:18:32. > :18:42.content that those who seek to hold the executive to account will always
:18:43. > :18:46.have a friend in the chair. Point of order, Mrs Cheryl Gillan. Mr
:18:47. > :18:51.Speaker, you and I and several other members of this House have taken
:18:52. > :18:55.more than a passing interest in a project which is one of the largest
:18:56. > :19:02.infrastructure projects in Europe, called HS2. And it has been brought
:19:03. > :19:12.to my attention on the wires this afternoon that... On the wires? The
:19:13. > :19:15.press Association, I believe it is known as the wires to those of us
:19:16. > :19:22.who have been around as long as I have. Seriously, the engineering
:19:23. > :19:30.firm that was handed ?170 million last month to develop phase two of
:19:31. > :19:39.HS2 has announced that it is pulling out of that section of the project,
:19:40. > :19:44.amid alleged conflicts of interest. CH2M is also the firm that has been
:19:45. > :19:50.awarded a ?350 million deal to develop phase one of the line from
:19:51. > :19:58.London to Birmingham. In the comments that came from the CH2M
:19:59. > :20:01.spokesman, allegedly on the wire, it says that the protracted delays and
:20:02. > :20:06.ongoing speculation risk further delays to this critical national
:20:07. > :20:12.infrastructure, thereby increasing costs to UK taxpayers as well as to
:20:13. > :20:16.the firm. It goes on to say that it is fully committed to delivering
:20:17. > :20:25.phase one on time and within budget, Mr Speaker, this is a pretty amazing
:20:26. > :20:30.announcement from one of the main contractors on HS2. I wondered if
:20:31. > :20:32.you had had any indication at all from the Department for Transport
:20:33. > :20:39.that a minister was intending to come here to the House and explain
:20:40. > :20:43.this extraordinary state of affairs, because after all, this now raises
:20:44. > :20:48.questions over large amounts of taxpayers money that are being sunk
:20:49. > :20:52.into this project, and I think that this House needs to be the first to
:20:53. > :20:57.know and not to read it on the press Association wires. I am grateful to
:20:58. > :21:02.the honourable lady for her point of order to which I respond as follows.
:21:03. > :21:04.First, very much in the margins of what the right honourable lady had
:21:05. > :21:09.to say, this seems to be some for old browse. And moderately noisy
:21:10. > :21:14.reactions to her reference to what she had heard on the wires. It seems
:21:15. > :21:16.to be a fairly unexceptional observation that the right
:21:17. > :21:20.honourable lady made. She will recall that the father in the House
:21:21. > :21:28.-- the father of the House in the last Parliament would account to the
:21:29. > :21:33.House what he had heard on the wireless that morning, by comparison
:21:34. > :21:36.to which the right honourable lady's statement is positively modern.
:21:37. > :21:41.Secondly I will say to her that this was news to me until a few moments
:21:42. > :21:45.ago. It is certainly a significant element involving a large-scale
:21:46. > :21:49.contractor and very significant sums of public money. I have received no
:21:50. > :21:52.indication from a minister of any intention to make a statement on the
:21:53. > :21:56.matter and that may be because there is so much -- no such intention or
:21:57. > :22:00.it may be the courtesy of ministers not wanting to approach me while I
:22:01. > :22:04.am attending to my duties in the chair. I feel that it may be a
:22:05. > :22:07.triumph of optimism over reality but it is possible that may explain the
:22:08. > :22:11.situation. I will say to the honourable lady that if memory
:22:12. > :22:14.serves me correctly, we have questions to the Secretary of State
:22:15. > :22:18.for Transport tomorrow and if the record is anything by which to
:22:19. > :22:22.judge, which I expect it is, the right honourable lady will be in her
:22:23. > :22:25.place and will almost certainly be an opportunity to raise this matter
:22:26. > :22:29.with the Secretary of State. I look forward to that exchange with eager
:22:30. > :22:38.anticipation, as I am sure does the House. If there are no further
:22:39. > :22:42.points of order, we come now to the next business. In a moment I will
:22:43. > :22:45.call Neil grade to make an application for leave to propose a
:22:46. > :22:48.bait on a specific and important matter that should have urgent
:22:49. > :22:53.consideration under the terms of standing order number 24. The
:22:54. > :22:59.honourable gentleman has up to three minutes in which to make such an
:23:00. > :23:02.application. Mr Neale Graver. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I take leave to
:23:03. > :23:06.propose that the House should debate the specific and important matter
:23:07. > :23:12.that should have urgent consideration, namely mitigating
:23:13. > :23:22.support for the support allowance work group. We have known about this
:23:23. > :23:24.that happening for some time. I have raised this issue in collaboration
:23:25. > :23:28.with others on a cross-party basis on a number of occasions. The cut is
:23:29. > :23:34.unanimously opposed by disability charities and disabled peoples
:23:35. > :23:36.organisations -- disabled People's organisations. Next week the cut
:23:37. > :23:39.comes into force on the House has not been given the information it
:23:40. > :23:43.was promised about what the government is going to do to ensure
:23:44. > :23:46.that the recipients, new and existing, are not financially
:23:47. > :23:49.penalised. I will use the couple of minutes that I have to appeal to the
:23:50. > :23:59.House for a fuller debate but also to the government. Next week, a cut
:24:00. > :24:04.of one third to the income of recipients of ESARAG will begin,
:24:05. > :24:09.?170 down to ?70 a week. That means that many disabled people found
:24:10. > :24:13.unfit to work will be ?30 a week worse off, money desperately needed
:24:14. > :24:16.to pay bills, stay healthy and undertake work-related activity such
:24:17. > :24:22.as volunteering or attending courses. We already know that a
:24:23. > :24:25.large proportion of those currently in receipt of ESARAG are struggling
:24:26. > :24:32.to make ends meet on what they receive now. With that extra ?30 a
:24:33. > :24:39.week we have no idea what the impact will be on them when ESARAG is cut
:24:40. > :24:45.back. These are people with disabilities or mental health
:24:46. > :24:51.conditions who want to work. They want to work but they are currently
:24:52. > :24:54.unable. Bridging and deeper into poverty will hinder, not help, any
:24:55. > :24:59.move towards employment. They are being faced with a double indignity,
:25:00. > :25:03.Mr Speaker, of wanting to work but being unable to find a job and then
:25:04. > :25:06.being told that the level of financial support that they are
:25:07. > :25:11.struggling to live on is a disincentive to work. That should
:25:12. > :25:17.shame cars. In November, MPs from eight Botaka parties plus
:25:18. > :25:20.independents helped to unanimously carried emotion that are brought to
:25:21. > :25:23.the House asking for the government to oppose these cuts. We were
:25:24. > :25:26.promised that mitigations would be in place before next week but there
:25:27. > :25:31.has been no oral statement, no written statement or announcement,
:25:32. > :25:34.just a vague commitments to social tariffs and hardship funds. That is
:25:35. > :25:38.no way to treat people desperate for support. I have been asking
:25:39. > :25:43.questions. I did so on Monday and I do not take the lack of a proper
:25:44. > :25:46.response personally as as the expert charities themselves have been
:25:47. > :25:50.seeking this information only to receive the same vague responses. I
:25:51. > :25:55.know that time is tight this week of all weeks. I understand that. But
:25:56. > :25:59.time is not on the side of people who desperately need this board.
:26:00. > :26:03.That is why I made this request of you, and why I am grateful to have
:26:04. > :26:07.had some time to appeal to the government. It is not too late for
:26:08. > :26:11.them to publish the support they have secured which they promised
:26:12. > :26:16.will make up for the cut of the ?30 a week. This is the last chance that
:26:17. > :26:21.we have to discuss this issue which has united members from across
:26:22. > :26:25.Pliskova bides, before it is too late, before there is nothing to be
:26:26. > :26:29.done. -- from across political divides. I hope ministers hear this
:26:30. > :26:32.and please react. The honourable member asks leave to propose a
:26:33. > :26:36.debate on a specific and important matter that should have urgent
:26:37. > :26:41.consideration, namely mitigating support for employment support
:26:42. > :26:43.allowance activity group. I have listened carefully to the
:26:44. > :26:47.application from the honourable gentleman but I am afraid that I am
:26:48. > :26:51.not persuaded that this matter is proper to be discussed,
:26:52. > :26:54.understanding order number 24. As the honourable gentleman and his
:26:55. > :26:58.colleagues will doubtless be aware, the standing order does not permit
:26:59. > :27:04.me to give my reasons to the House. That said, and double certainly
:27:05. > :27:07.today was the last opportunity for the honourable gentleman to seek
:27:08. > :27:12.such a debate before we depart for the recess, the may well be an
:27:13. > :27:19.opportunity for this matter to be debated in another way upon our
:27:20. > :27:25.return. And I am sure that the honourable gentleman will eagerly
:27:26. > :27:29.seize any such opportunity. If there are no further points of order we
:27:30. > :27:32.come now to the ten minute rule motion which the honourable
:27:33. > :27:38.gentleman the Member for Lee has been so patiently -- so patiently
:27:39. > :27:43.waiting. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I beg to move that leave be given to
:27:44. > :27:46.bring in a bill to set a requirement on public institutions, public
:27:47. > :27:50.servants and officials, that those carrying out functions on their
:27:51. > :27:54.behalf to act in the public interest and with candour and frankness, to
:27:55. > :27:57.define the public law duty on them to assist courts, official quarries
:27:58. > :28:02.and investigations to enable victims to enforce such duties, to great
:28:03. > :28:04.offences for the breach of certain duties, to provide funding for
:28:05. > :28:10.victims and the relatives in certain proceedings before the courts and at
:28:11. > :28:12.official enquiries and investigations, and for connected
:28:13. > :28:18.purposes. Mr Speaker, next month marks the 28th anniversary of the
:28:19. > :28:22.Hillsborough disaster and the first anniversary of the historic verdict
:28:23. > :28:28.of the second inquest. Whatever the sense of relief felt a year ago, it
:28:29. > :28:32.will never wipe away the pain of the 27 Wilderness years between those
:28:33. > :28:39.two events, and the intangible toll on thousands of lives. We await
:28:40. > :28:45.accountability for that. All those years, the evidence sat in official
:28:46. > :28:49.files, but our political, legal and colonial systems did not uncover it.
:28:50. > :28:54.Nor did the media. Worse, they actively colluded in a cover-up,
:28:55. > :29:00.advanced in the committee rooms of this House. I said again and I it
:29:01. > :29:05.again today, Hillsborough must be a watershed moment in this country, a
:29:06. > :29:09.point in history when the scales of justice are tipped firmly in favour
:29:10. > :29:17.of ordinary families fighting for loved ones. This is what the public
:29:18. > :29:23.authority accountability Bill, or Hillsborough Law, seeks to achieve.
:29:24. > :29:26.It is a powerful Bill proposed and supported by all of the Hillsborough
:29:27. > :29:29.families, and both the Hillsborough Family Support Group and the
:29:30. > :29:33.Hillsborough Justice campaign. It has been developed with the help of
:29:34. > :29:38.their lawyers and I pay particular tribute to Peter Weatherby QC in
:29:39. > :29:41.this regard. As an aside, Mr Speaker, it happens to be the last
:29:42. > :29:48.bill that will be prepared by Mr Glenn McKee from the public Bill
:29:49. > :29:53.office, who, after 34 years here, retires tomorrow. I am sure that
:29:54. > :29:59.colleagues on both sides will join me in paying tribute to an
:30:00. > :30:03.exceptional servant to this House and to our democracy. The bill has
:30:04. > :30:09.formidable backing from other justice campaigns, including
:30:10. > :30:13.Inquest, many in the legal profession and honourable member is
:30:14. > :30:16.on both sides. Its aim is simple, to protect other families from going
:30:17. > :30:19.through what the Hillsborough families went through and from a
:30:20. > :30:28.similar miscarriage of justice. It empowers victims to ensure
:30:29. > :30:30.disclosure of crucial information and prevent public authorities lying
:30:31. > :30:35.to them or hiding the truth by making that an imprisonable offence.
:30:36. > :30:40.-- and imprisonable offence. It empowers police officers to stand up
:30:41. > :30:43.to seniors trying to make them stick to a misleading corporate lie. It
:30:44. > :30:47.makes it an offence for such a line to be peddled to the media.
:30:48. > :30:51.Crucially, it reached a level legal playing field at inquests for
:30:52. > :30:54.bereaved families so that finally inquests become what they should
:30:55. > :31:01.always be, a vehicle to get to the truth. After last year's verdict,
:31:02. > :31:04.the chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, Margaret Aspinall,
:31:05. > :31:07.came here to speak of her experience in the early 1990s. I don't think
:31:08. > :31:12.anyone who was at that meeting will ever forget her talking about her
:31:13. > :31:18.pain when she was sent a Kalimantan official letter with a cheque for
:31:19. > :31:24.?1226 which was supposed to represent compensation for James'
:31:25. > :31:27.life. She spoke about how she was forced to cash against her will
:31:28. > :31:33.because she could not find the money to pay it against ?3000 share of the
:31:34. > :31:36.families' legal costs. She said, making a mother like myself accept a
:31:37. > :31:41.pittance to fight to cars, the guilt this has lived with me for the past
:31:42. > :31:44.28 years. It would be at least something if we could say that this
:31:45. > :31:49.would not happen today. But sadly we cannot. Since the Hillsborough
:31:50. > :31:54.verdict, the families of those who died in 1974 in the Birmingham pub
:31:55. > :31:59.bombings have, quite wrongly and unbelievably, been made to beg for
:32:00. > :32:04.legal aid. There are thousands of other hidden individual cases where
:32:05. > :32:07.bereaved families are denied legal representation while the public
:32:08. > :32:13.bodies that they are up against in court spend public money like water
:32:14. > :32:20.hiring the best QCs in the land, as cuts to legal aid bite -- in the
:32:21. > :32:26.land. As cuts to legal aid bite, the problem gets worse. There was a
:32:27. > :32:31.young boy who died as part of the national cuts in 2014. His parents
:32:32. > :32:34.believe that the problem was caused by contaminated landfill. Scientists
:32:35. > :32:38.were called onto the site and the case was discussed at Cobra. Despite
:32:39. > :32:42.this, the family were denied legal aid. They arrived at the inquest to
:32:43. > :32:46.find themselves up against a phalanx of top QCs and left feeling as
:32:47. > :32:50.though they had been put on trial. They are still fighting for and
:32:51. > :33:10.today as to what happened to their child. Consider the
:33:11. > :33:14.experience of distracting the force from the Milly Dowler investigation,
:33:15. > :33:18.an accusation with no foundation. My wife and I were made to feel that we
:33:19. > :33:22.were on trial and our families undermined at every opportunity, he
:33:23. > :33:26.said after the verdict. The brutal and uncomfortable truth is this, Mr
:33:27. > :33:31.Speaker. Bereaved families are not just denied legal assistance, they
:33:32. > :33:35.have their character questioned and denigrated by lawyers or public
:33:36. > :33:38.bodies. They are thrown into courtrooms, roll with grief, pitched
:33:39. > :33:44.into an adversarial battle and effectively put on trial. -- raw
:33:45. > :33:48.with grief. How long will we in here led vast sums of public money be
:33:49. > :33:52.used to torment families in this way? If the state can cover up 96
:33:53. > :33:57.deaths at a football match, shouldn't we be concerned of what it
:33:58. > :33:59.might do to individuals? The Hillsborough Family Support Group
:34:00. > :34:04.has asked me to say this to the House today. For the good of the
:34:05. > :34:07.nation there should be a level playing field of inquests. The
:34:08. > :34:11.grief, pain and heartache is enough for families to deal with. They
:34:12. > :34:14.should not have to deal with money worries or beg for public funds to
:34:15. > :34:21.get to the truth. Their powerful call for quality of arms has support
:34:22. > :34:25.including from Peter Thornton QC, the former chief coroner. To those
:34:26. > :34:29.who say it will add costs, I disagree. The practical effect of
:34:30. > :34:32.clause four would be to create a new incentive for public bodies to limit
:34:33. > :34:36.of their own legal expenditure. And by making them come clean at the
:34:37. > :34:40.outset, the bill will cut the length of inquests and enquiries, thereby
:34:41. > :34:43.making considerable savings. It would promote good public
:34:44. > :34:48.administration and promote public confidence in the police. Most
:34:49. > :34:51.importantly, it will rebalance our legal system in favour of ordinary
:34:52. > :34:55.people. Until then, the true lesson of Hillsborough will not have been
:34:56. > :34:59.learned. What has disappointed me most are in the last year is to see
:35:00. > :35:01.how things have reverted to business as usual, for the establishment
:35:02. > :35:04.teams that Hillsborough was the one that got away rather than what it
:35:05. > :35:10.should have been, the catalyst for change. I see this with sadness as I
:35:11. > :35:13.truly hope it would be the latter, but of elements over the last year
:35:14. > :35:18.suggest otherwise. Alongside the shoddy treatment of the Birmingham
:35:19. > :35:22.families we have the refusal of an enquiry into Orgreave on the basis
:35:23. > :35:26.that nobody died. If that is now the Home Secretary's benchmark for the
:35:27. > :35:30.wrongdoing can be investigated, God help us all. Nobody died at
:35:31. > :35:33.Orgreave, true, but innocent people were wrongly and maliciously
:35:34. > :35:37.prosecuted in the country should know how that came to be. Nobody
:35:38. > :35:40.died during the building workers dispute of the early 1970s, either,
:35:41. > :35:43.but it does not mean that we should not be told the truth about the
:35:44. > :35:46.politically motivated Shrewsbury show trial and what I believe was a
:35:47. > :36:05.serious miscarriage of justice. Then there
:36:06. > :36:07.is the treatment of victims of contaminated blood. Arguably the
:36:08. > :36:10.greatest injustice of all. They had been led up to the top of the hill
:36:11. > :36:13.only to be let down once again. As with Hillsborough, clear evidence of
:36:14. > :36:15.serious wrongdoing is there if only people care to look for it. I have
:36:16. > :36:17.seen evidence that medical records were altered without people's
:36:18. > :36:19.consent and false entries included. That is potentially a criminal
:36:20. > :36:22.matter. Next month, I hope to persuade you to allow me to use the
:36:23. > :36:24.adjournment to present a dossier of such evidence, just as amended
:36:25. > :36:25.police statements reopened Hillsborough. I believe that
:36:26. > :36:29.evidence of amended medical records must reopen the contaminated blood
:36:30. > :36:38.scandal. The fact that these victims remain in the darkest of
:36:39. > :36:42.wildernesses show that Hillsborough has not changed our country yet but
:36:43. > :36:46.I am hopeful that it will do so. If this bill becomes law, it will trade
:36:47. > :36:51.a permanent legislative legacy for the 96 people who died on April 15
:36:52. > :36:55.1989. Last year, the Prime Minister has the right reverend bishop James
:36:56. > :36:58.Jones to conduct a review of the experience of the Hillsborough
:36:59. > :37:02.families. On the half of the House I would like to thank the Bishop for
:37:03. > :37:06.his incredible service to those families and everybody affected by
:37:07. > :37:11.the tragedy and respectfully ask him to consider adopting this bill as
:37:12. > :37:16.part of his recommendations. In this country, we like to talk of
:37:17. > :37:21.ourselves as a paragon of democracy and the rule of law. But I finish,
:37:22. > :37:26.Mr Speaker, by asking this of every member in this House. Think of the
:37:27. > :37:31.constituents that you have met and your surgeries who have spent years
:37:32. > :37:36.fighting for justice. Picture now the lines on their faces, the black
:37:37. > :37:41.shadows beneath their eyes. Then ask yourself this, is this country they
:37:42. > :37:45.to people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves fighting
:37:46. > :37:49.for loved ones? We all mouldy answer. No. The fight is too hard
:37:50. > :37:53.and it takes too great a tall, is too hard and it takes too great a
:37:54. > :37:59.tall, it grinds people down. To claim. -- it takes too great a toll.
:38:00. > :38:04.There is a possibility that I will not be in this House long enough to
:38:05. > :38:09.see this bill become a law, but I have enough faith in the humanity of
:38:10. > :38:12.both sides that one day it will. The question is that the right
:38:13. > :38:19.honourable member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as are of
:38:20. > :38:24.that opinion say aye. The contrary, no. The ayes have it, the ayes have
:38:25. > :38:29.it. Who brings in the Bill? Steve Rotherham, Maria legal, Derek Twigg,
:38:30. > :38:37.Alison McGovern, the Leicester seven, Sir -- Sir Peter Bottomley,
:38:38. > :38:39.Jess Phillips, Tim Farron, Mark Durkin, Christopher Stevens,
:38:40. > :38:53.Caroline Lucas, Alec Shelbrooke and myself, Mr Speaker.
:38:54. > :39:26.Public authority accountability bill. Second reading what they?
:39:27. > :39:28.Friday 12th of May. Order. We now come to the emergency debate under
:39:29. > :39:40.Standing Order number 24. Debbie Abrahams. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and
:39:41. > :39:43.thank you for granting this vital debate on the new personal
:39:44. > :39:48.independence payment regulations. While I welcome the chance to debate
:39:49. > :39:53.this issue, it's highly regrettable the Government has had to be dragged
:39:54. > :39:58.to the House to take account for this nasty piece of legislation. The
:39:59. > :40:05.Government has ignored to urgent questions on this matter, and early
:40:06. > :40:10.day motion signed by 179 members calling on these punitive
:40:11. > :40:16.regulations to be annulled, and over 185,000 people who signed the
:40:17. > :40:21.petition asking the Government not to make these changes. When pushed
:40:22. > :40:25.at business questions last Thursday, the Leader of the House said there
:40:26. > :40:29.would be a debate but not when, and last night it became clear that the
:40:30. > :40:35.19th of April has now been scheduled. What kind of arrogance or
:40:36. > :40:40.disregard for democracy is the Government revealing? This does not
:40:41. > :40:47.go well for a accountability to this place in future negotiations. For
:40:48. > :40:52.the record, today's debate does not allow a substantive vote on the
:40:53. > :40:57.regulations and big cars the Government has not allowed a debate
:40:58. > :41:02.before the EDM period comes to an end on the 3rd of April, they will
:41:03. > :41:08.not be automatically revoked should the House vote against them on the
:41:09. > :41:12.19th. I would be grateful for an explanation as to why when we rose
:41:13. > :41:18.twice this week the Government could not find time for this debate before
:41:19. > :41:21.the Easter recess. By delaying the debate the Government hopes the
:41:22. > :41:29.objection to these regulations will be kicked into the long grass but it
:41:30. > :41:31.will not. Let's remind ourselves how these emergency regulations were
:41:32. > :41:39.introduced and what they'd changed. I will. I'm grateful to her for
:41:40. > :41:43.giving way and thank her own behalf of many of my constituents for
:41:44. > :41:48.bringing about this motion does she agree that the least we owe it to
:41:49. > :41:52.people who through no fault of their own have found themselves in
:41:53. > :41:55.difficult circumstances is to tell them whether the appalling impact on
:41:56. > :42:03.their incomes of decisions made clear were voted for? He makes an
:42:04. > :42:07.excellent point, and this is what we have been trying to do since these
:42:08. > :42:15.of urgency regulations were laid down. These regulations laid down
:42:16. > :42:19.before the House on the 23rd of February and amended the legislation
:42:20. > :42:23.by which people with a chronic condition are to be assessed for
:42:24. > :42:29.eligibility to personal independence payment. They came into force two
:42:30. > :42:36.weeks ago. The new regulations followed to tribunal rulings, the
:42:37. > :42:40.first judgment in November 2016 held that needing support to take
:42:41. > :42:45.medication and monitoring a health condition should be scored in the
:42:46. > :42:50.same way as needing support to monitor therapy like dialysis at
:42:51. > :42:54.home. The second one ruled that people who find it difficult to
:42:55. > :42:58.leave their house because of severe psychological distress should in C
:42:59. > :43:04.-- should receive the enhanced rate of support. In a letter to me last
:43:05. > :43:10.week the Secretary of State said he became aware of these rulings in
:43:11. > :43:15.December. To win the half months later the Government laid there are
:43:16. > :43:20.emergency regulation. I'm sure the arrows me of something taking two
:43:21. > :43:25.and a half months being an urgency has not been lost on you, Mr
:43:26. > :43:31.Speaker. In this time not only were the Government unable to bring these
:43:32. > :43:35.regulations to the size but they bypassed their own Social Security
:43:36. > :43:39.Advisory committee and ignored recommendations for wider engagement
:43:40. > :43:47.to present the changes and analysed their impacts. Isn't that the point
:43:48. > :43:52.that those legal cases broadened the provisions and this order that is
:43:53. > :43:57.under debate is just trying to restore what the policy has been and
:43:58. > :44:04.should be to target support of those who need it most? I will come onto
:44:05. > :44:09.this in a moment because unfortunately members have been
:44:10. > :44:16.hoodwinked by this and I will expose what the Government has said around
:44:17. > :44:21.this. The move undermines and suburbs not just our democracy but
:44:22. > :44:25.independent tribunal judgments. It is unprecedented and should concern
:44:26. > :44:30.us about future action the Government may take in other court
:44:31. > :44:35.cases they lose. It is also unusual for such a fundamental change to be
:44:36. > :44:42.introduced by a negative statutory incident in this way, bypassing
:44:43. > :44:47.debate in this House. It is clear from the huge number of cases I have
:44:48. > :44:53.dealt with but the entire pep system is flawed, it results in appalling
:44:54. > :44:59.decisions and causes distress to thousands of disabled people and
:45:00. > :45:02.their families. There should be an independent review of how
:45:03. > :45:07.assessments are carried out, given the obvious failings in the system.
:45:08. > :45:15.I think she is right, there have been long-term issues around the PAP
:45:16. > :45:19.assessment process but it is interesting, I think it was
:45:20. > :45:25.yesterday that the Government that out but they would be announcing a
:45:26. > :45:32.recent review but tomorrow, just when we have risen for recess. It's
:45:33. > :45:39.a highly unusual situation that we have introduced this negative
:45:40. > :45:45.statutory instrument in this way. On Monday the other place passed a
:45:46. > :45:48.regret motion tabled by Baroness Sherlock asking the Government to
:45:49. > :45:56.reconsider this regulation that this has been denied in the vital period.
:45:57. > :46:04.This is very worrying behaviour from the Government. The minister claims
:46:05. > :46:08.these changes restore PIP do with original policy intentions but they
:46:09. > :46:13.do not hold water. During the consultation in 2012, ministers were
:46:14. > :46:18.quoted saying mental health conditions would be given parity
:46:19. > :46:26.with physical health as part of that PIP assessment. This one from Esther
:46:27. > :46:32.McVey, the assessment was designed to consider intellectual and
:46:33. > :46:41.cognitive impairment stop... The Samaritans produced a report which
:46:42. > :46:46.points to significant association between socioeconomic advantage and
:46:47. > :46:52.suicidal behaviour. The report found that those already vulnerable
:46:53. > :46:57.individuals such as those supported by social welfare with pre-existing
:46:58. > :47:03.mental health problems are at greater risk. It is shocking that
:47:04. > :47:06.the Government have not looked at the risk of suicide for those who
:47:07. > :47:15.will be denied support for their mental health. I agree, and another
:47:16. > :47:19.honourable friend gave a moving account of how one of her
:47:20. > :47:27.constituents was a fact did buy this and unfortunately took their own
:47:28. > :47:32.life last week, and I will. Does my honourable friend I agree the
:47:33. > :47:35.Government seems to be in a place where the NHS is catching up with
:47:36. > :47:42.the need to treat mental health conditions properly at the other
:47:43. > :47:49.public services, whether DWP or the Prison Service, is stuck in the past
:47:50. > :47:52.and this must change. My honourable friend is right and this makes a
:47:53. > :48:00.mockery of the claim around parity of esteem. If I could finish this
:48:01. > :48:08.point, my honourable friend mentions rightly about what the NHS is trying
:48:09. > :48:12.to do but sadly there are still issues with treatment for mental
:48:13. > :48:18.health conditions. I will make some progress and then come back. The
:48:19. > :48:23.Government's response to the PIP consultation reiterated that
:48:24. > :48:27.psychological distress would be included in the assessment, as did
:48:28. > :48:36.the Government in the Upper tribunal case of each bell wire the Secretary
:48:37. > :48:39.of State for Work and Pensions. Investors also said people with
:48:40. > :48:44.mental health disorders who suffer psychological distress would not
:48:45. > :48:50.lose out on PIP but under the new guidelines for assessment issued
:48:51. > :48:59.this March, it says descriptors see, the and Beth are amended and the
:49:00. > :49:10.effects of psychological distress, are not relevant -- C, D and R. They
:49:11. > :49:16.cannot score the 12 points needed if they are to get the enhanced PIP
:49:17. > :49:25.mobility rate, so instead of ?57 per week they were now only get ?22 a
:49:26. > :49:31.week. In recent months I have had 44 PIP cases in my constituency, dozens
:49:32. > :49:39.going to appeal. Of the eight that I've gone to appeal, everyone has
:49:40. > :49:44.been overturned. This is a massive and inexcusable waste of time, money
:49:45. > :49:52.and resources. I think the red two points I would like to make, first
:49:53. > :49:59.of all the Association of bill health and disability around former
:50:00. > :50:06.industrial areas. And then, as he says, about the impact of these
:50:07. > :50:11.assessments and they cannot be got right first time, why is that? Why
:50:12. > :50:17.has the Government not been able to get these assessments right first
:50:18. > :50:23.time? Will he give me two minutes? I will make a little more progress.
:50:24. > :50:25.Someone who experiences psychological distress because of a
:50:26. > :50:31.mental health condition can score at ten points for the river Dee of
:50:32. > :50:35.planning and following a journey unless they also have a cognitive
:50:36. > :50:40.sensory or physical empowerment, falling short of the 12 points
:50:41. > :50:48.needed to qualify for the higher rate. In a 2016 case the upper
:50:49. > :50:56.tribunal ruled that psychological distress by itself cannot satisfy
:50:57. > :51:00.descriptors under activity two unless the psychological distress
:51:01. > :51:06.causes a change in someone's physical condition, so it is these
:51:07. > :51:11.regulations, not the rulings, that undermine the intention of the
:51:12. > :51:16.primary legislation by restricting people with ability severely limited
:51:17. > :51:25.by their mental health condition from qualifying for the advanced
:51:26. > :51:30.rate. I thank her for giving way, it's important we get these
:51:31. > :51:34.regulations right but with the Shadow Minister accept that more
:51:35. > :51:43.people with mental health conditions qualify under PAP than under old DLA
:51:44. > :51:51.regulations? No, I would not, the mental health charity Mind has
:51:52. > :51:56.produced data which shows that 55% of DLA claimants who are supported
:51:57. > :52:03.with a mental health condition will receive no or a reduced level when
:52:04. > :52:06.they transferred to PIP, so it is another fallacy from this
:52:07. > :52:11.Government... I thank her for giving weight again. She might have
:52:12. > :52:16.suggested members on this side have been hoodwinked, I'm sure she was
:52:17. > :52:22.not suggesting the minister plays with other than a straight bat, and
:52:23. > :52:27.over a quarter of those on PIP received the highest level of
:52:28. > :52:32.support, much higher then working age payments under the old DLA, so
:52:33. > :52:42.isn't this targeting resources at those who need it most? I don't see
:52:43. > :52:50.the logic at all. It doesn't make sense, I'm sorry, I will certainly
:52:51. > :52:55.come onto that in a bit more detail because we must dispel some of the
:52:56. > :53:01.fallacies that this Government has come out with over the last few
:53:02. > :53:06.weeks. Before he intervenes, there are ten other members who wish to
:53:07. > :53:11.make speeches in the debate, including the minister, the
:53:12. > :53:16.honourable lady is being generous that not only with her own time but
:53:17. > :53:20.with time that would otherwise be available to others and may want to
:53:21. > :53:28.tailor her contribution accordingly. I wouldn't take much credence from
:53:29. > :53:32.planted with's questions from the backbench, but the other element of
:53:33. > :53:37.this which is concerning is those people who when they fail and
:53:38. > :53:40.assessment can make their mental health position worse and in some
:53:41. > :53:49.cases it ends up with them going into hospital, another cost to the
:53:50. > :53:54.NHS. I couldn't agree more, that is such irrelevant point and it hasn't
:53:55. > :53:58.been factored into this in the silo approach this Government is taking.
:53:59. > :54:05.The third justification used for bringing in these regulations is
:54:06. > :54:11.that PIP is more generous to those with mental health conditions and
:54:12. > :54:18.the mental health charity repeats this, their database on the DWP's
:54:19. > :54:24.own statistics revealed that 55% of people with mental health conditions
:54:25. > :54:32.previously supported by the late get reduced or no awards when they
:54:33. > :54:36.transferred to PIP. The Government's own data shows only 12% of people
:54:37. > :54:42.with mental health disorder or another condition are on the
:54:43. > :54:46.enhanced award. These regulations are just a shameful cut, the
:54:47. > :54:55.Government balancing books on the back of the sick and disabled. The
:54:56. > :55:01.new regulations will affect more than 120,000 people by 2023, many of
:55:02. > :55:06.these will be new applicants but also those being reassessed. They
:55:07. > :55:11.will not be eligible for the full support they would have been
:55:12. > :55:13.entitled to under the tribunal's rulings, and accepted cut of ?3.7
:55:14. > :55:23.billion. Pip helps people who are disabled to
:55:24. > :55:26.fund their living costs. The disability charity Scope has
:55:27. > :55:32.estimated that these additional costs amount to ?550 a month. And
:55:33. > :55:38.the key reason disabled people are twice as likely to live in poverty
:55:39. > :55:41.as non-disabled people. For someone who may not be able to leave their
:55:42. > :55:44.own home on their own, it will help with heating costs or it may pay for
:55:45. > :55:48.someone to assist them when they have to travel to medical
:55:49. > :55:52.apartments. Pip is a vital source of income to prevent hardship and to
:55:53. > :56:02.the shame of this government, they are denying this support. I thank
:56:03. > :56:06.you for giving way. Do you also agree that being able to receive the
:56:07. > :56:13.Pip funding is also part of somebody's rehabilitation to help
:56:14. > :56:18.them back into the workplace? Absolutely. My honourable friend has
:56:19. > :56:21.first-hand experience of that in her former professional capacity. I have
:56:22. > :56:24.been contacted by so many people telling me their stories of living
:56:25. > :56:28.with a severe mental health problem and how this affects them, including
:56:29. > :56:33.men and women from the armed and emergency services. I just wanted to
:56:34. > :56:36.share Bob's story with you. Bob started in the police service in
:56:37. > :56:40.Liverpool and then went into the prison service. After 20 years, he
:56:41. > :56:43.said he started to experience the need to escape from the cells and
:56:44. > :56:49.inmates by locking himself into the rest room for a few minutes. Over
:56:50. > :56:52.the years, this graduated to cluster headaches and a full-blown anxiety
:56:53. > :56:57.and panic attacks. After a period of sick leave, he left the service. The
:56:58. > :57:02.attacks continued, though, and he eventually sought psychiatric
:57:03. > :57:06.treatment, when he was declared disabled by virtue of his
:57:07. > :57:09.debilitating anxiety attacks. The degree of disability fluctuated, but
:57:10. > :57:12.at times he said it was so severe that he would run from a shopping
:57:13. > :57:16.centre into a car just to feel safe. He said he wanted to work, but when
:57:17. > :57:20.he went for a job interview, he had an attack in the car and by the time
:57:21. > :57:26.he got home, he could barely function, hyperventilating and
:57:27. > :57:32.unable to move. It is people like Bob that these new regulations will
:57:33. > :57:37.deny support too. These changes to Pip come on top of significant cuts
:57:38. > :57:40.to our social security system, with support for disabled people being
:57:41. > :57:45.particularly targeted. Scope has estimated the impacts of the 2012
:57:46. > :57:47.wealth reform act alone will see nearly ?30 billion of cuts in
:57:48. > :57:54.support of 3.7 million disabled people. Next week as we have heard,
:57:55. > :58:02.another ?30 a week will be cut from disabled people who are found not
:58:03. > :58:07.fit for work. The disabled community is tired of this government's
:58:08. > :58:11.rhetoric. They want and need to be treated with dignity, not plunged
:58:12. > :58:15.further into poverty. There is plenty of new evidence to show that
:58:16. > :58:21.this is what is happening since 2010. Will the minister now publish
:58:22. > :58:26.a cumulative impact assessment of all changes and the impact it will
:58:27. > :58:33.have on disabled people? For some time now, there has been concern
:58:34. > :58:40.about the way Pip is working. 65% of those who appeal to the tribunal
:58:41. > :58:43.succeed. Over a quarter of all Pip assessments are challenged and
:58:44. > :58:46.referred for mandatory reconsideration, with the majority
:58:47. > :58:51.of these decisions changed. So why can't we get these assessments right
:58:52. > :58:56.first time? More than 750 people a week are losing the Motability cars
:58:57. > :59:00.because of changes to entitlement when moving to Pip. This is
:59:01. > :59:04.counter-productive for so many disabled people that it makes it
:59:05. > :59:07.nigh impossible for them to work, let alone enable them to live
:59:08. > :59:10.independently. We should never forget that nine out of ten
:59:11. > :59:16.disabilities are acquired. It could happen to any of us. That is what
:59:17. > :59:22.our social security system is for. It is there to provide support for
:59:23. > :59:25.any of us in our time of need. Labour will stand with disabled
:59:26. > :59:30.people who have already borne the brunt of seven years of austerity
:59:31. > :59:35.and injustice. I do not believe that given the choice, the British public
:59:36. > :59:41.would choose cuts in corporation tax over pushing disabled people into
:59:42. > :59:46.destitution or worse. It is exactly a week since the horrendous attack
:59:47. > :59:50.in Westminster, when four people including our colleague PC Keith
:59:51. > :59:54.Palmer were murdered and 50 were injured. The following day, the
:59:55. > :00:00.Prime Minister quite rightly said that she was" looking at what
:00:01. > :00:04.further support can be made available for victims in a wider
:00:05. > :00:08.sense, because there will be people who were not physically injured in
:00:09. > :00:15.the attack, but for whom there may be other scars. It is important to
:00:16. > :00:21.provide that support". But the fact is that with these new regulations,
:00:22. > :00:25.support for people suffering psychological distress is being
:00:26. > :00:28.restricted. Warm words need to be backed up with action. No more cuts
:00:29. > :00:35.in support is on disabled people. Enough is enough. The question is
:00:36. > :00:41.that this House has considered changes to personal independence
:00:42. > :00:47.payment regulations. Can I politely suggest to the House that we weren't
:00:48. > :00:50.at this stage have a formal time limit on backbench speeches, but if
:00:51. > :00:55.each backbench contributor feels able to confine him or herself to
:00:56. > :01:03.five or six minutes or thereabouts, everyone will get in. We will start
:01:04. > :01:09.with the sage from Swindon. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to
:01:10. > :01:14.speak in this debate. Having spent 14 happy months as the minister
:01:15. > :01:20.responsible for this area, I wanted to pass on some of my observations
:01:21. > :01:23.during that time. To be clear, the stakeholders of the charities do
:01:24. > :01:28.recognise that Pip is a better benefit than DLA. It isn't perfect.
:01:29. > :01:37.There is much more to do to deliver further improvements, but the stats
:01:38. > :01:41.show why it is better. And the DLA, only 16.5% of claimants accessed the
:01:42. > :01:46.highest rate of benefit. Under Pip, that is over 25%. It is particularly
:01:47. > :01:52.better at identifying those with hidden impairments, including mental
:01:53. > :01:54.health, where under DLA only 22% of claimants with a mental health
:01:55. > :02:06.condition access to the higher rate of benefit, where it is 66% under
:02:07. > :02:11.Pip. This is why the improvements have seen the government spending an
:02:12. > :02:15.additional ?3 billion helping those with long term disabilities, which
:02:16. > :02:20.is around 6% of all government spending. Understandably, in all the
:02:21. > :02:24.debates I have attended, people say yes, there is a 65% success rate of
:02:25. > :02:29.appeals, so surely the quality of assessment is not good enough. That
:02:30. > :02:33.is why we have to look at what is going wrong. The majority of the
:02:34. > :02:38.successful appeals are because of late additional submitted evidence.
:02:39. > :02:44.It is these areas we must look to improve. If the system is so good,
:02:45. > :02:49.why do people need to come and see us? We have an almost 100% success
:02:50. > :02:57.rate of getting what that person is entitled to without any intervention
:02:58. > :03:00.from any of us. Because presumably, when a claimant comes to speak to
:03:01. > :03:05.any of us as members of Parliament, we will talk to them about where
:03:06. > :03:07.they feel the decision wasn't right. When they get the letter that
:03:08. > :03:11.doesn't give them the benefit they were hoping for, it spells out why.
:03:12. > :03:15.And that normally triggers the claimant to think they have not
:03:16. > :03:19.considered this particular challenge and they will then submit additional
:03:20. > :03:24.late evidence, and then it is looked at again and a different decision is
:03:25. > :03:27.arrived at, which doesn't mean the original decision was wrong based on
:03:28. > :03:34.the facts presented, which is one of the reasons why I am keen to see a
:03:35. > :03:41.way the assessors can automatically assessed the medical records for the
:03:42. > :03:49.claimant with their consent. For a lot of people, you have to fill in
:03:50. > :04:01.your 50 page form. And you sometimes understate the challenges you face.
:04:02. > :04:04.He is wrong. With my constituents, the assessors don't even consider
:04:05. > :04:07.the evidence, even when it is taken with them. And when I have
:04:08. > :04:15.intervened, that is when it gets overturned. The system is not
:04:16. > :04:18.working. Well, I am not wrong. The majority of successful appeals are
:04:19. > :04:30.because of late additional submitted evidence. I appreciate the
:04:31. > :04:34.honourable gentleman giving way. In my constituency, people are taking
:04:35. > :04:39.deckchairs at early hours of the morning, 5am or 6am, in order to
:04:40. > :04:44.queue outside Citizens Advice Bureau. Isn't this thirsty adding to
:04:45. > :04:52.the stress, and shouldn't it be clearer that they can get the
:04:53. > :04:56.assessment that they need? I am trying to explain what we can do to
:04:57. > :05:01.help improve... There are cases where there are mistakes. 1.5
:05:02. > :05:07.million people are going through the Pip process. But we know the Pip
:05:08. > :05:10.process is better than DLA because we are spending ?3 billion more and
:05:11. > :05:13.the success rate to get those with the highest rate of challenges on to
:05:14. > :05:18.the highest rate of benefit is the proof in the pudding. But this
:05:19. > :05:20.debate is because there has been a legal judgment that has suggested
:05:21. > :05:25.that there are areas where additional money should be spent. As
:05:26. > :05:28.I have argued when we had the urgent question, if we are going to spend
:05:29. > :05:36.money to make further improvements, it needs to be done in a coordinated
:05:37. > :05:40.manner, not in an ad hoc way. The way this works is, we have lots of
:05:41. > :05:43.impressive charities with great policy teams, and they come in and
:05:44. > :05:56.lobby based on the experiences of their users. We as MPs also raise
:05:57. > :06:04.suggestions for improvements. We have already seen significant
:06:05. > :06:07.changes. The much-needed changes for claimants, the fact that waiting
:06:08. > :06:12.times have improved after a difficult start when Pip was first
:06:13. > :06:19.rolled out, as we chance for people from DLA to Pip, it is rightly being
:06:20. > :06:28.done so as not to compromise waiting times. The assessment qualities are
:06:29. > :06:34.improving month on month. There are more areas to work on, but I have
:06:35. > :06:39.spent many times meeting the smaller charities where you have less common
:06:40. > :06:43.conditions coming forward, who would then spend time helping train the
:06:44. > :06:51.assessors, rewriting the manual so that they are picked up in the
:06:52. > :06:55.assessment. And also for the first time, looking at the timings of when
:06:56. > :06:59.people should come back for reassessment. Under the old DLA
:07:00. > :07:03.system, 70% of claimants were on a lifetime award. But one in three
:07:04. > :07:07.claimants' condition changes significantly within 12 months and
:07:08. > :07:10.they should be on a different benefit, the majority of which were
:07:11. > :07:14.getting worse, not better and should be entitled to a higher rate of
:07:15. > :07:17.benefit. But a lot of people did and then phone up and say can I present
:07:18. > :07:18.myself for reassessment, so they were missing out on the benefits
:07:19. > :07:33.they should have entered at a lower rate
:07:34. > :07:35.of benefit and they can see that you are likely to worsen in your
:07:36. > :07:37.condition and would access a higher rate of benefit, it will
:07:38. > :07:39.automatically assess when that should be and that will trigger a
:07:40. > :07:46.reassessment to make sure people most in need get that money at the
:07:47. > :07:50.best possible time. I do not always agree with the Government on well
:07:51. > :07:54.for, but I believe the assessments have been improving. My concerns are
:07:55. > :08:01.that the 50 page application form is not improving and people are
:08:02. > :08:04.struggling. And access to the assessments where people are being
:08:05. > :08:11.put in taxis for up to an hour is also an increasing problem. My
:08:12. > :08:16.honourable friend was one of the greatest advocates for pushing for
:08:17. > :08:19.changes and I had many constructive and challenging meetings with him as
:08:20. > :08:24.he brought forward suggestions. That is the point, to look at this in a
:08:25. > :08:27.coordinated manner. There are further improvements for the
:08:28. > :08:33.application form and the way some of the descriptors are applied. The
:08:34. > :08:36.Government is considering ordering the automatic recording of all
:08:37. > :08:40.assessments so that that can be used in the appeal, and that would
:08:41. > :08:47.benefit both the assessors and the claimants who have been asking for
:08:48. > :08:51.this. Broadly, I agree that the Pip process is a work in progress and
:08:52. > :08:55.needs to get better. I could give you many stories of my experience of
:08:56. > :08:59.where it is going wrong. I agreed a gradual change is a great thing, but
:09:00. > :09:04.the courts have given us a loud and clear message - on mental health,
:09:05. > :09:13.you have got it wrong. In this age when we are desperately trying to
:09:14. > :09:18.change the understanding of mental health, the courts have given us the
:09:19. > :09:24.decision for a reason. I understand the point, but it has to be done in
:09:25. > :09:36.eight water dated manner. Pip -- has to be done in a co-ordinated manner.
:09:37. > :09:40.If additional money is to be spent, it should be done on speeding up the
:09:41. > :09:43.appeals process. This is a problem for those with a Motability car who
:09:44. > :09:52.could lose the car before their appeal is heard. There should be
:09:53. > :09:56.automatic access to medical records and where possible to shed that
:09:57. > :10:02.between the CSA assessment and the Pip assessment because often, they
:10:03. > :10:05.are similar and that would make the claimant's life easier. We also need
:10:06. > :10:09.to do more signposting for additional help. We are spending
:10:10. > :10:12.more as a government supporting people with mental health
:10:13. > :10:15.conditions. The biggest challenge is often identifying people with mental
:10:16. > :10:19.health conditions to give them the support that is being brought
:10:20. > :10:22.forward. Pip is good at identifying them and we should be offering those
:10:23. > :10:28.additional areas of support and saying to them, these are the sorts
:10:29. > :10:35.of services available in this area and you can take advantage of them.
:10:36. > :10:39.I urge the minister to continue to work with those policy teams. I
:10:40. > :10:43.spoke to Macmillan yesterday. They were grateful for the ability to
:10:44. > :10:47.continue to access senior ministers and discuss suggestions. We have
:10:48. > :10:50.some brilliant stakeholders and knowledge of double charities. Let
:10:51. > :10:55.them help where further improvements will be.
:10:56. > :11:02.It is a relief we're having this debate on the floor of the House, I
:11:03. > :11:06.never like to thank you for following it up. It is a shame that
:11:07. > :11:12.only matter like this the houses had to be dragged the Government to the
:11:13. > :11:17.dispatch box to be held accountable weeks of refusal. As we have heard,
:11:18. > :11:24.197 honourable members across eight different parties have signed to
:11:25. > :11:27.annul the statutory changes. The truth is that the Government had
:11:28. > :11:33.been shying away from accountability from the start. They initially
:11:34. > :11:36.refused to comply with the tribunal support ruling by bringing forward
:11:37. > :11:41.these changes in the first place and then didn't have the decency not
:11:42. > :11:47.courtesy to refer a draft of the red elation to the social society that
:11:48. > :11:51.Security advisory committee. If they are so confident that these big
:11:52. > :11:54.relations will hold up, why have they avoided due process and tried
:11:55. > :11:59.to speak the changes through the back door? My party will not allow
:12:00. > :12:07.the Government to take these are unfair backward steps. These changes
:12:08. > :12:11.will affect 150,000 people, losing out on PIP to is what the cost of
:12:12. > :12:21.living with a disability. It will save the Government ?3.7 billion.
:12:22. > :12:25.Given that this marked hypocrisy, it has been said Government would not
:12:26. > :12:29.seek to make any further cuts, is that the reason why they didn't want
:12:30. > :12:32.the regulation scrutinised? It seems fitting that with the current
:12:33. > :12:37.Government's attitude to PIP and the assessment that they will sneak up
:12:38. > :12:42.the second independent route review on Thursday, the day the House rises
:12:43. > :12:46.for Easter recess. What are they so scared that they have shared the
:12:47. > :12:51.release of this report in order that they can face no immediate scrutiny?
:12:52. > :12:55.During the passage of the welfare reform act 2012, which established a
:12:56. > :13:00.new personal independent payment system, ministers were clear that it
:13:01. > :13:04.was an important step that be want to see between the physical and
:13:05. > :13:07.mental health. Ministers even talked about the descriptors for the
:13:08. > :13:14.mobility component, taking into account ability to plan a journey,
:13:15. > :13:19.and PIP was designed to assess barriers that individuals face and
:13:20. > :13:23.not make judgments based on their... PIP is supposed to support people
:13:24. > :13:26.with additional disabilities. We have heard about the court ruling
:13:27. > :13:30.which these changes seek to undermine. It ruled that he will
:13:31. > :13:34.find it hard to leave the House because of anxiety, panic attacks
:13:35. > :13:38.and other mental health problems should be up to receive a higher
:13:39. > :13:48.rate of PIP. I have said before, but it bears repeating. Doesn't this run
:13:49. > :13:53.the risk of increasing stigma of mental health? It is saying to
:13:54. > :13:57.people clearly that anxiety, causing you to stay inside, is not something
:13:58. > :13:59.that is serious? And doesn't conflict with the principle of equal
:14:00. > :14:07.treatment between mental and physical health? Thank you for his
:14:08. > :14:13.intervention, I completely agree. We should not treat one disability
:14:14. > :14:16.differently from another. As I said, this Government cannot simply change
:14:17. > :14:21.the goalposts every time it loses a battle in court. These regulations
:14:22. > :14:27.do nothing more than pander to the old attitudes and stigmas was mental
:14:28. > :14:33.illness. At the FA person needs help, they need it regardless of the
:14:34. > :14:37.nature of the disability. Evidence to the lord Secretary legislation
:14:38. > :14:40.committee in Scotland and allies of Scotland's major disability
:14:41. > :14:46.organisations raise the number of concerns regarding the changes. They
:14:47. > :14:50.said they disagree with the Government's presentation of the
:14:51. > :14:55.change. It is clear the version from the state of names from the
:14:56. > :14:59.legislation in 2012 which was intended to award in hands mobility
:15:00. > :15:04.component if a person's mobility is severely limited by their physical
:15:05. > :15:09.or mental condition. Essentially the Government is intended to try and
:15:10. > :15:13.spin their way out of this, by stigmatising those with severe
:15:14. > :15:18.mental health conditions. Disability Scotland also say that current
:15:19. > :15:21.recipients will lose out in future awards despite no change to their
:15:22. > :15:28.condition if they are reassessed under the new criteria. It will come
:15:29. > :15:32.as no shock that the DWP's own shows that the garment has no idea of the
:15:33. > :15:38.long-term impact, basically don't care. They are happy to Bush forward
:15:39. > :15:40.with a move that basically and distinct distinction between people
:15:41. > :15:45.with different conditions against the ruling of the court. They are
:15:46. > :15:52.clearly concerns about the assessment process. The Scottish
:15:53. > :15:55.Association issued a report which sets this out. One of the main
:15:56. > :15:59.themes that run through it is the distrust of the process. Someone
:16:00. > :16:05.responding said, people advise you not to shave, turn up dishevelled to
:16:06. > :16:09.show that mentally you are unwell. Just because you are articulate
:16:10. > :16:12.doesn't mean you don't have an mental health condition. There is to
:16:13. > :16:16.be no consistency in the assessment process and yet the Government keeps
:16:17. > :16:20.shifting sands a piecemeal way which only exacerbates the problem and the
:16:21. > :16:25.impact of the life of those I tried to claim what they are entitled to.
:16:26. > :16:29.We already know the Government have form at pulling the safety net from
:16:30. > :16:33.those who are desperately with life-threatening indices. Such is
:16:34. > :16:38.the impact of sanctions on people with mental health conditions that
:16:39. > :16:45.there is become destitute and dependent on food bank. They are not
:16:46. > :16:50.keen... It seems like a Government it is doing everything it can to
:16:51. > :16:55.make people dependent on support rather than empowering to live
:16:56. > :16:58.independent lives. This means nothing to the Government when they
:16:59. > :17:04.have instructed private companies to carry out assessments to only awards
:17:05. > :17:08.in the high rate of mobility component of people with physical or
:17:09. > :17:11.sensory impairments. The Scottish Government is determined to build a
:17:12. > :17:15.social security system that puts dignity and fairness at heart. When
:17:16. > :17:24.the process of building assessment taking over responsibility is
:17:25. > :17:31.ongoing,... And grateful for her to give way. Television show her that
:17:32. > :17:35.is also affects seats like my own, which I called metropolitan or
:17:36. > :17:41.elitist or suburban. We have had 120 cases of this recently, and the
:17:42. > :17:45.thing that people keep pointing out, it's another example how the
:17:46. > :17:54.Government says one thing and does another. I thank the Honourable lady
:17:55. > :17:59.for her intervention and agree. Most of us have constituents chewing up
:18:00. > :18:04.at the door with issues of PIP. I hope the lessons can be learned from
:18:05. > :18:07.this debate. The Government should stop forcing through important
:18:08. > :18:12.legislation to the back door, that they should consult with their own
:18:13. > :18:16.security advisory committee, and that they should not have to be
:18:17. > :18:19.dragged to the dispatch box in an emergency debate simply because they
:18:20. > :18:24.haven't given how House the answers. They haven't even waited on the
:18:25. > :18:28.second independent review on PIP four-minute relating the system. The
:18:29. > :18:32.minister needs to stop mucking about, back away from these ill
:18:33. > :18:36.judged and ill thought out changes, and bring forward a vote to annul
:18:37. > :18:41.the regulations, if they do not then it goes to show their intent to
:18:42. > :18:45.build on legislation without scrutiny and in spite of the
:18:46. > :18:49.independent judicial ruling. The bottom line is these changes are
:18:50. > :18:52.being implemented to save the Government money. No matter the cost
:18:53. > :18:57.to our communities and those with mental health conditions. This is no
:18:58. > :19:03.way to treat our people in society. I am asking the Government to
:19:04. > :19:09.reconsider. Can ask members to stick to five minutes each? And their work
:19:10. > :19:13.be time for a proper ministerial response about which members will
:19:14. > :19:19.then understandably be the first to complain. Five minutes each. It is a
:19:20. > :19:26.pleasure to speak in this important debate. I appreciate the concern set
:19:27. > :19:29.out by the honourable lady, but the bigger picture is clear. The
:19:30. > :19:35.Government spends ?50 billion a year to support people with disabilities
:19:36. > :19:38.and health conditions, as increase of ?7 billion is 2010. The
:19:39. > :19:41.Government moved away from a disability living allowance to PIP
:19:42. > :19:44.on the basis that support should be given to those experiencing the
:19:45. > :19:48.greatest barriers to live independently. PIP support people
:19:49. > :19:54.with the overall level of need and not on the basis of a specific
:19:55. > :19:58.medical condition. It is based on their freedom to live independently
:19:59. > :20:06.and how it is impaired. I am chair of the all-party Parliamentary group
:20:07. > :20:10.of on visual impairment. I let the debate yesterday on preventing
:20:11. > :20:14.avoidable sight loss. In many sight loss cases, they are unavoidable.
:20:15. > :20:17.How we support those in limited ability to live independently is
:20:18. > :20:23.important. Sight loss at that nearly 2 million people in the UK, and a
:20:24. > :20:27.huge personal challenges and people with sight loss how to live
:20:28. > :20:30.independently can never be underestimated. To my work with the
:20:31. > :20:33.cross-party group, I have seen first-hand the Government's
:20:34. > :20:42.commitment to helping people dealing with sight loss. Last year the
:20:43. > :20:49.employment minister, is alerted a meeting with her team to help blind
:20:50. > :20:54.and partially sighted people. My honourable friend will be made in
:20:55. > :20:58.her soon to see our PIP can best help people with sight loss. I am
:20:59. > :21:01.grateful to her and the DWP ministers for their focus on this.
:21:02. > :21:06.I'm sure that she would agree with me that they do commendable work and
:21:07. > :21:12.would urge people who are blind or partially sighted to contact RNIB
:21:13. > :21:17.are created a toolkit to compete the pitfall effectively, to deal with
:21:18. > :21:23.the daily living component. I would like to share with the personal
:21:24. > :21:29.experiences of PIP which have been collated by the RNIB and are
:21:30. > :21:36.available on their website. Research and evidence was gathered, and the
:21:37. > :21:39.key findings of this study which reflected real-life experiences of
:21:40. > :21:44.people with sensory loss and visual impairment is that those
:21:45. > :21:53.participants who transitioned from DLA to PIP reported a positive
:21:54. > :21:57.financial outcome with PIP. However I hope the minister will reflect on
:21:58. > :22:06.the feedback of the process which some found confusing, and that
:22:07. > :22:10.assessors always work to deliver a positive experience face-to-face,
:22:11. > :22:15.regardless. The evidence shows that in this study, switching from DLA to
:22:16. > :22:22.PIP met a more positive financial outcome and that is welcome. Members
:22:23. > :22:27.opposite have accused the Government of betraying people with mental
:22:28. > :22:32.health conditions. The Government is spending ?11.4 billion on mental
:22:33. > :22:35.health this year alone. There are more people with mental health
:22:36. > :22:38.conditions receiving enhanced PIP daily living and mobility rates that
:22:39. > :22:46.were previously getting the equivalent under DLA. There isn't
:22:47. > :22:55.enough time for everyone to get in. 66% of people on PIP with a mental
:22:56. > :22:59.health condition save it in the highest rate of DLA. I will finish
:23:00. > :23:03.my focusing on the Government's record helping disabled people into
:23:04. > :23:08.work. Since 2013, the number of disabled people into work has
:23:09. > :23:12.increased by 500,000. There at the site last item bottom of the table
:23:13. > :23:17.and I hope we can do more to ensure that they can... She is making a
:23:18. > :23:23.very good speech with valuable points. It has nothing whatsoever to
:23:24. > :23:32.do the regulation under discussion today. Chair has to make a judgment
:23:33. > :23:36.about pertinence. At this stage, I am content with my own judgment. At
:23:37. > :23:40.the right honourable gentleman is not, I shall do my best to bear the
:23:41. > :23:49.burden with such stoicism and fortitude as I am able to muster. We
:23:50. > :23:52.have heard excuses where PIP isn't working, but I want to share
:23:53. > :23:56.experiences where it is working and that is important. The point I was
:23:57. > :23:59.trying to make is we have many more people with disabilities going back
:24:00. > :24:05.into work, I want to make sure the campaign- those with sight loss that
:24:06. > :24:08.they have those opportunities. We have happened million more people
:24:09. > :24:15.benefiting from opportunities, secure work, they can support
:24:16. > :24:19.families and loved ones. They're supporting themselves and their
:24:20. > :24:22.communities and the economy, and I thank the honourable lady for giving
:24:23. > :24:30.us the opportunity to reflect on that and welcome those figures as
:24:31. > :24:36.well. I want to congratulate her on Security thing that I see during
:24:37. > :24:39.this debate. I want to challenge some of the assertions made by the
:24:40. > :24:44.Secretary of State in commenting on these changes. I've no doubt that
:24:45. > :24:47.the comments he made were made in good faith, but I think they were
:24:48. > :24:53.incorrect. In particular, these changes do not restore the original
:24:54. > :25:01.intentions of the benefit. The changes are clearly a cut, the
:25:02. > :25:05.secretary said yesterday they weren't. They are and the effect a
:25:06. > :25:10.substantial number of people. The analysis produced by the Department
:25:11. > :25:13.tellers that the current caseload, 143,000 people would have had their
:25:14. > :25:20.current mobility of what the dues to zero if they had been made under the
:25:21. > :25:24.new regulations. At other 21,000, with Irvine it reduced. This is not
:25:25. > :25:29.a minor or insignificant cut, it is a substantial one affecting a large
:25:30. > :25:36.amount of people. Table six in the assessment held as, title conditions
:25:37. > :25:42.most likely affected by reversing effective upper tribunal judgment
:25:43. > :25:45.and mobility activity one, and the list includes schizophrenia,
:25:46. > :25:48.learning disability, autism, cognitive disorder due to stroke,
:25:49. > :25:53.dementia and post-traumatic stress disorder. According to the
:25:54. > :26:01.Government, those are the people most affected. I will give way.
:26:02. > :26:07.My right honourable friend clearly there is something about the new
:26:08. > :26:12.regulations. I do as well. Those with psychological illness cannot
:26:13. > :26:22.now qualify for renowned mobility because activity 11E only attracts a
:26:23. > :26:32.certain number of points. This is clearly a cut by the Government.
:26:33. > :26:35.They should just fess up. The Secretary of State did tell us at
:26:36. > :26:39.the beginning that no body would see their current benefit being cut. It
:26:40. > :26:46.is now accepted by ministers that that statement was incorrect. I just
:26:47. > :26:53.want to read one paragraph, paragraph four. "In The table in
:26:54. > :27:05.part three ( mobility activities ), in relation to activity one (
:27:06. > :27:09.planning and following journeys ) cannot for reasons other than
:27:10. > :27:16.psychological distress". So the changes explicitly carve out people,
:27:17. > :27:23.if they cannot go on a journey because of psychological distress.
:27:24. > :27:29.They have said people with cognitive impairments can still qualify, which
:27:30. > :27:35.may well be the case. But that is a different group of people. These
:27:36. > :27:43.changes explicitly carve out people whose mobility impairment arises
:27:44. > :27:45.from psychological distress. Was that the original intention? The
:27:46. > :27:49.right honourable member for Basingstoke, on the 7th of February
:27:50. > :27:55.2012, I think she was the predecessor but two to the
:27:56. > :27:59.honourable member for North Swindon, she said this. When considering
:28:00. > :28:02.entitlement to both weights of the mobility component, we will take
:28:03. > :28:08.into account ability to plan and follow a journey in addition to
:28:09. > :28:15.physical ability to get around. Importantly, she said, Pip is
:28:16. > :28:21.designed to assess barriers individual face, not make a judgment
:28:22. > :28:28.based on their impairment. That is a clear statement of the original
:28:29. > :28:30.intent of this benefit. If the Secretary of State has been advised
:28:31. > :28:37.that the original intention was something different, he needs to
:28:38. > :28:41.check the record. These changes are different to that intention. They
:28:42. > :28:47.introduce an explicit judgment based on impairment type. The original
:28:48. > :28:53.intention was to have no such distinction. The regulations
:28:54. > :28:59.introduce a distinction that was not in the original intention of the
:29:00. > :29:03.benefit. The regulations say you are in if you struggle to plan and
:29:04. > :29:08.follow a journey, but if the problem is due to psychological distress,
:29:09. > :29:14.you are out. It is an explicit judgment. It is carving out a large
:29:15. > :29:21.group of people with mental health problems. Doesn't the carve out
:29:22. > :29:26.ultimately amount to nothing but discrimination against those
:29:27. > :29:31.suffering mental distress, and isn't it the case that any references to
:29:32. > :29:35.spending on mental health in any other area is irrelevant to this?
:29:36. > :29:41.This is about discrimination so far as this rule change is concerned. It
:29:42. > :29:44.is explicit in the face of the regulations that that group is being
:29:45. > :29:48.discriminated against, contrary to the original intention that the
:29:49. > :29:53.Secretary of State said he was restoring. The Secretary of State
:29:54. > :29:57.suggests that it was never the intention to include this group of
:29:58. > :30:01.people with mental health problems, but his predecessors at the time
:30:02. > :30:05.told this House that it was the intention to include people,
:30:06. > :30:11.irrespective of their impairment type. That was the intention in
:30:12. > :30:15.2012. These regulations will thwart it. I hope that like the other
:30:16. > :30:24.place, we will say no to these changes. It is a privilege to serve
:30:25. > :30:29.on the work and pensions select committee with the right honourable
:30:30. > :30:35.lady in the last parliament. I want to focus on two areas. First, it is
:30:36. > :30:39.in the case that the Government is using this as a cost-cutting
:30:40. > :30:44.exercise. Secondly, I will address some of the comments made by members
:30:45. > :30:48.opposite on mental health and physical conditions regarding Pip.
:30:49. > :30:53.We spend ?50 billion a year on benefits to support people with
:30:54. > :31:01.disabilities and health conditions, up from 7 billion since 2010. So
:31:02. > :31:04.rather than being subject to austerity, the Government has
:31:05. > :31:08.increased its spending. That is 6% of all government spending or 2% of
:31:09. > :31:14.GDP, significantly more than countries like France and Germany
:31:15. > :31:19.and above the OECD average. It is more than we spend on defence of the
:31:20. > :31:23.realm. It is not, as some members have made out, a cost-cutting
:31:24. > :31:27.exercise. The Government has been clear that it will seek no further
:31:28. > :31:29.savings through welfare this Parliament. I am asking my right
:31:30. > :31:34.honourable friend to reassure the House that she will continue to
:31:35. > :31:37.defend the disability budget. These changes restore the original aim of
:31:38. > :31:41.the policy by clarifying the assessment criteria to make sure
:31:42. > :31:47.support is targeted on those that need it most. Nobody will receive
:31:48. > :31:52.any less money than they have previously been awarded. This is not
:31:53. > :31:54.about making savings. Pip was widely debated and voted upon in this House
:31:55. > :32:10.during the coalition government. Over two thirds of Pip recipients
:32:11. > :32:12.with a mental health condition received the enhanced living
:32:13. > :32:17.component compared with 22% who used to receive the higher rate under
:32:18. > :32:21.DLA. This Government is investing more in mental health support than
:32:22. > :32:26.any before it. A record of 11.4 billion this year. Parity between
:32:27. > :32:32.mental and physical conditions is a core principle at the heart of Pip's
:32:33. > :32:36.design, and awards are made dependent on the claimant's overall
:32:37. > :32:41.level of need regardless of whether the condition is mental or physical.
:32:42. > :32:44.As well as increasing spending on disabilities, this Government is
:32:45. > :32:48.challenging attitudes towards disability through initiatives like
:32:49. > :32:53.disability confident. Last year, I and many members of this House held
:32:54. > :33:00.my first disability confident fair, bringing together 20 local
:33:01. > :33:08.businesses and supporting agencies to encourage employers to consider
:33:09. > :33:11.taking on residents. The honourable gentleman says parity of esteem
:33:12. > :33:15.applies to the way Pip works, but the right honourable member for East
:33:16. > :33:19.Ham has specifically explained how the carve out of mental distress
:33:20. > :33:24.means that it is clearly discriminatory. Does he not agree? I
:33:25. > :33:29.can't comment on the specific case that the honourable gentleman for
:33:30. > :33:33.East Ham referred to, because I don't know the details. It does vary
:33:34. > :33:39.from case to case, and we can all come out with examples. But in my
:33:40. > :33:43.experience, these changes to Pip have overwhelmingly been better for
:33:44. > :33:52.people with mental illness in my constituency. And overall... I will
:33:53. > :33:56.give way. I would also like to say we have a number of local residents
:33:57. > :34:00.concerned about those with mental health issues having access to the
:34:01. > :34:04.higher rate mobility allowance. This has probably had the unintended
:34:05. > :34:09.consequences, and this is where I would take my write's advice, of
:34:10. > :34:13.young people, post-transition, not being able to have access to their
:34:14. > :34:22.blue badge or disability or mobility access. That is a point I would like
:34:23. > :34:33.her to examine. That is for the minister to answer. In closing, the
:34:34. > :34:38.disability confident fair brought in employers, and I would encourage
:34:39. > :34:42.members across the House to do something similar. I learned a lot
:34:43. > :34:51.about the challenges of my constituents and helped bring
:34:52. > :34:53.employers and residents together. Our government is providing a strong
:34:54. > :34:59.safety net for those who need it. Pip is a more modern and fair
:35:00. > :35:04.benefit than its predecessor of DLA, focusing support on those in our
:35:05. > :35:13.constituency that need it most. Mr Stephen Twigg. I thank my honourable
:35:14. > :35:16.friend for securing this debate and reaffirm the points she made about
:35:17. > :35:20.how disappointing it is that this Government did not find time for a
:35:21. > :35:24.vote on these regulations before they come in. I would say to the
:35:25. > :35:28.government that it does not reflect well on this House or on the
:35:29. > :35:33.government in terms of public trust in our proceedings if we do not
:35:34. > :35:38.conduct these votes prior to such significant regulations coming in.
:35:39. > :35:42.We know that disabled people are at least twice as likely to live in
:35:43. > :35:47.poverty as non-disabled people. Pip helps to level the financial playing
:35:48. > :35:50.field between disabled and non-disabled people. I represent a
:35:51. > :35:58.constituency that has a significant level of poverty, and the numbers of
:35:59. > :36:02.receipt in Pip in my constituency are 3410. We have all received
:36:03. > :36:06.representations from a range of third sector organisations about
:36:07. > :36:13.this assessment process, and we have all seen the impact of how it works.
:36:14. > :36:17.I want to highlight two organisations I have worked with.
:36:18. > :36:20.One is the motor neurone disease Association. I am pleased to be
:36:21. > :36:27.patron of their Merseyside branch. Their analysis shows that between
:36:28. > :36:31.2013 and 2016, the proportion of people with MND who saw their award
:36:32. > :36:35.reduced as they moved from DLA to Pip was 13%. This is a condition
:36:36. > :36:42.which by its nature is both progressive and terminal. When I
:36:43. > :36:47.spoke to MND this morning, they said they want me to raise in this debate
:36:48. > :36:50.the quality of assessments. They believe the poor quality of
:36:51. > :36:58.assessments has contributed to the issues that have been raised by
:36:59. > :37:04.others. One thing that startled me when I have been through Pip
:37:05. > :37:09.assessments myself if the generalist nature of the assessors. They are
:37:10. > :37:13.expected to be experts on mental and physical health and mobility, and it
:37:14. > :37:19.is not possible in my opinion. There needs to be some kind of triaging. I
:37:20. > :37:24.bear that out from my experience in my local office. Research suggests
:37:25. > :37:28.that 71% of respondents said that assessors had not sought any
:37:29. > :37:32.evidence or information about the specific condition. That is part of
:37:33. > :37:39.the reason why 65% of those who challenge a decision then find that
:37:40. > :37:42.that challenge is successful. We have to be careful when the
:37:43. > :37:46.Government says it is targeting somebody or something, because you
:37:47. > :37:56.know that that is a code word for cuts in benefits. My constituents
:37:57. > :38:05.often find they are entering the unexpected. My honourable friend
:38:06. > :38:10.makes a powerful point. The other condition is epilepsy. I am a vice
:38:11. > :38:14.president of epilepsy action, and they have been in touch to say they
:38:15. > :38:20.fear that these proposals could penalise people with epilepsy, who
:38:21. > :38:24.rely on support to monitor their health condition. The DWP's
:38:25. > :38:28.understudy recognises that a person with epilepsy who has a seizure may
:38:29. > :38:32.need a carer to administer medicine without which they may go into
:38:33. > :38:38.status epilepticus, which can lead to brain damage or death. So I would
:38:39. > :38:43.like to reaffirm what my honourable friend from the front bench said
:38:44. > :38:47.today. We have an opportunity to air concerns on a cross-party basis, but
:38:48. > :38:50.I would urge the Government to listen to those concerns. As the
:38:51. > :38:54.honourable lady from South Cambridgeshire said earlier, we have
:38:55. > :38:58.been sent a message by the tribunal is about parity between mental and
:38:59. > :39:02.physical health. Let us say that we have listened to that message and we
:39:03. > :39:09.urge the Government to look again at these regulations. As someone who
:39:10. > :39:12.spends a great deal of time on work to improve the care and support for
:39:13. > :39:19.people with mental health conditions, I will begin with a
:39:20. > :39:27.couple of points of context before I moved to talking about the question
:39:28. > :39:30.of Pips which we are debating. I am thankful that mental health has
:39:31. > :39:35.never been a higher priority for any government. The Prime Minister has
:39:36. > :39:39.made it clear that it is a priority for her. We have the five-year
:39:40. > :39:44.forward view for mental health. We have extra funding for mental
:39:45. > :39:46.health, and people I work with in the mental health sector,
:39:47. > :39:52.campaigners, charities and professionals, have said to me that
:39:53. > :39:55.now is a golden moment to improve mental health care because of this
:39:56. > :40:07.unprecedented commitment by the Government to mental health. I know
:40:08. > :40:11.that my right honourable friend de Secretary of State forward and
:40:12. > :40:15.pensions and my 'em the minister for disabled people share this
:40:16. > :40:19.commitment. It is shown in the green paper recently published on work and
:40:20. > :40:23.disability and in the review of employment for people with mental
:40:24. > :40:27.health problems. There is also evidence that Pip is a better
:40:28. > :40:31.benefit for people with mental health conditions than its
:40:32. > :40:34.predecessor. Some of these statistics have already been given
:40:35. > :40:37.by my honourable friend the member for North Swindon, so I will not
:40:38. > :40:46.reiterate that beyond saying that it is important to note that on the
:40:47. > :40:49.mobility component of Pip, people with mental health conditions are
:40:50. > :40:53.far more likely to receive that an its equivalent under DLA, 28%
:40:54. > :40:58.getting the enhanced mobility component compared to 10% getting
:40:59. > :40:59.the equivalent under DLA. That is relevant to what we are debating
:41:00. > :41:08.today. They hope odds are PIP has the
:41:09. > :41:13.minister has said is that the award is based on the how the condition
:41:14. > :41:18.affects day-to-day life. It is based on that, not on their diagnosis. It
:41:19. > :41:25.is based on their needs and consequent costs. I am happy to give
:41:26. > :41:30.way. I thank the honourable lady. Does she agree with me that for the
:41:31. > :41:33.Government to suggest that mobility impairment caused by psychological
:41:34. > :41:37.issues are not relevant is an insult to anyone with a mental health
:41:38. > :41:40.condition, and that she also agreed that mental health conditions should
:41:41. > :41:47.be treated no differently to physical health conditions? I don't
:41:48. > :41:51.agree with the first point, I think he should continue to listen to what
:41:52. > :41:56.I have to say. The second point is one that I probably do agree with,
:41:57. > :42:01.but if he could listen, he may find that we are aligned on that. I would
:42:02. > :42:06.like to thank the minister, because she has been exceptionally assiduous
:42:07. > :42:11.in responding and discussing my concerns on the matter is that we
:42:12. > :42:16.are debating today. We have had several meetings. In those meetings,
:42:17. > :42:21.she has emphasised to me her commitment to achieving the original
:42:22. > :42:24.aim of PIP which is to support people to live full, independent
:42:25. > :42:31.lives. I have questioned her about these regulations, both in my role
:42:32. > :42:35.as chair of the APG from mental health, but also as a local member
:42:36. > :42:39.of Parliament. We have discussed the case of a lady I met in Maidstone
:42:40. > :42:44.recently, who had been set on fire on a bus. That lady told me that
:42:45. > :42:48.since then she has been unable to go out of the House without being
:42:49. > :42:55.accompanied by somebody that you trust. She has been very worried
:42:56. > :42:58.during this discussion about these regulations, she has been worried
:42:59. > :43:01.that the welfare system might not treat her the same as someone who
:43:02. > :43:05.has been unable to leave the House because of a physical disability.
:43:06. > :43:09.The minister has assured me that is not the case. And that people are
:43:10. > :43:14.and will continue to be given payment not based on their diagnosis
:43:15. > :43:22.but based on their needs. I would ask my honourable friend to clarify
:43:23. > :43:27.to all of us today that for examples somebody suffering from severe
:43:28. > :43:30.psychological distress, for instance post-traumatic stress disorder, who
:43:31. > :43:34.needs to get out and about, for instance to go to work or take
:43:35. > :43:37.children to school, but finds it impossible to go out and about
:43:38. > :43:43.without significant assistance, could and would receive the enhanced
:43:44. > :43:52.rate of mobility component of PIP, if the needs justified that. I would
:43:53. > :43:57.also ask my honourable friend that given the concern about these
:43:58. > :44:03.regulations, for her reassures on three counts to do with lamentation.
:44:04. > :44:06.One to make sure that the guidance for assessors is absolutely clear,
:44:07. > :44:09.that people with mental health conditions can and should receive
:44:10. > :44:13.PIP was based on their needs and costs, and that may well be the
:44:14. > :44:19.enhanced level. Secondly to make sure that the audit system, that she
:44:20. > :44:24.will make sure this is what happens in practice. And thirdly to draw on
:44:25. > :44:29.the evidence provided by recordings of PIP assessments, the trialling of
:44:30. > :44:35.which I welcome, having pressed her and her predecessor who is behind
:44:36. > :44:38.the on this point that I think PIP assessments should be recorded, and
:44:39. > :44:45.I welcome that this is going to be trialled. Finally, I'm just wrapping
:44:46. > :44:49.up. I look forward to hearing from my right honourable friend that she
:44:50. > :44:53.will assure as all that this Government's welfare system can and
:44:54. > :45:03.will continue to treat people the same, whether they needs are for
:45:04. > :45:05.mental or physical conditions. I to congratulate my honourable friend
:45:06. > :45:12.for bringing this matter before the House. I just want to concentrate on
:45:13. > :45:19.a couple of the misapprehensions in this afternoon's debate. First of
:45:20. > :45:24.all, in relation to the original policy intent, and we heard from my
:45:25. > :45:28.right honourable friend, that in 2011 and 2012 we were told by
:45:29. > :45:33.ministers during the passage of the welfare reform act, that not only
:45:34. > :45:39.would psychological stress and all conditions be eligible to be covered
:45:40. > :45:43.by PIP, but specifically the benefit would be judged not on the basis of
:45:44. > :45:48.their condition, but the overall impact on some apartment life. If
:45:49. > :45:53.that has significant impact on somebody's live, why will it be is
:45:54. > :45:58.good in assessing for the higher rate? It is contradictory to what we
:45:59. > :46:03.were told at the time of the passage of the Act. The Government
:46:04. > :46:07.acknowledged in 2015 that psychological strays was to be
:46:08. > :46:11.included, now they say that was a mistake. That is not good enough for
:46:12. > :46:17.a Government go around making these kind of mistakes. Secondly, the
:46:18. > :46:21.Government has said that nobody will suffer a cut to their benefit, it is
:46:22. > :46:26.not clear to me if they are still saying that not to be clear, to cut
:46:27. > :46:30.I'd like to point out. On the 15th of March, in the course of the
:46:31. > :46:34.urgent question heard in this House, the Secretary of State did
:46:35. > :46:38.acknowledge that some people who had had their award increased as a
:46:39. > :46:44.result of a decision in a first tribunal could see that reduced back
:46:45. > :46:47.to the level of the original DWP award. The Secretary of State was
:46:48. > :46:51.very careful with his words, he didn't say all awards would be
:46:52. > :46:55.protected, he said the original DWP award would be protected. Does that
:46:56. > :47:01.mean that it will be some people who will in practice see them was
:47:02. > :47:07.reduced? When will that happen? Because the other thing the
:47:08. > :47:11.Government is doing is appealing to the tribunal decisions. That is
:47:12. > :47:17.specifically to catch people who have seen their benefit on a higher
:47:18. > :47:20.level and who would of course enjoy that higher level, because the
:47:21. > :47:25.regulations would come in to relate for them to be impacted as the
:47:26. > :47:30.benefits reduced. Is the minister telling us that Government is
:47:31. > :47:33.successful, they would be reducing the benefit of those people who got
:47:34. > :47:38.rich awards prior to these regulations back to the level of the
:47:39. > :47:44.original DW be a white? The third thing I want to say is that asking
:47:45. > :47:51.the Government may reconcile cases decided on the upper tribunal, on a
:47:52. > :47:55.month of March with a decision to strip out the psychological and
:47:56. > :47:58.stress. In part because I understand it is a fluctuating condition, as we
:47:59. > :48:01.have heard in the decisions made on the 9th of March in the upper
:48:02. > :48:03.tribunal, it is not just whether something is occasional not that
:48:04. > :48:13.determines whether summit should be eligible. It is also about the total
:48:14. > :48:19.impact of that condition. The member for Liverpool, there's no better
:48:20. > :48:22.example than someone with epilepsy who may suffer occasional seizures,
:48:23. > :48:24.but many do suffer no seizures at the effect, the harm that they could
:48:25. > :48:29.be experienced to be very considerable and resulting brain
:48:30. > :48:35.damage or even death. May I ask the minister to explain how she
:48:36. > :48:39.reconciles those decisions with the assertion that because it is a
:48:40. > :48:45.fluctuating condition, psychological stress should not attract the
:48:46. > :48:49.highest rate of award? I would like the minister to have ten minutes in
:48:50. > :48:58.which the reply, so she needs to be on her feet. With regards to these
:48:59. > :49:03.PIP changes, the Government has done all it can to avoid parliamentary
:49:04. > :49:10.scrutiny. It has ignored the concerns repeatedly expressed by MPs
:49:11. > :49:14.and disability benefits Consortium and the concerns out there. They can
:49:15. > :49:17.be no doubt that the consequences of these changes are having a
:49:18. > :49:24.fundamental and life limiting effect on those affected by them. The point
:49:25. > :49:29.of PIP to help with the extra costs resulting from disability of
:49:30. > :49:33.long-term ill-health, replacing DLA. The effect, real axe or accidental,
:49:34. > :49:36.physically discrimination against those living with mental health
:49:37. > :49:42.challenges and could put vulnerable claimants at risk. That was the
:49:43. > :49:47.conclusion of the House of Lords. The disability rights Consortium is
:49:48. > :49:51.it concerned that these changes will restrict access for disabled people
:49:52. > :49:55.who needed in order to face additional costs. Clearly the
:49:56. > :49:59.criteria is now far too strict, which has resulted in almost 50% of
:50:00. > :50:07.disabled people and people with long-term health conditions losing
:50:08. > :50:11.access to some or all of the support when being assessed. In addition we
:50:12. > :50:16.know that over 60% of PIP appeals are successful. To those who have
:50:17. > :50:24.had their support withdrawn reduced, I would say this. Go to your MP for
:50:25. > :50:28.help. The process is distressing, upsetting, but please, appeal any
:50:29. > :50:33.decision which you think is unfair, because over 60% of appeals are
:50:34. > :50:39.successful. This shows, on its own, that the process is not working. And
:50:40. > :50:44.that the system causes unnecessary distress are far too many claimants.
:50:45. > :50:50.My constituency office in Ardrossan, north Ayrshire, has numerous
:50:51. > :50:55.examples of such cases. It leaves claimants confused, frightened,
:50:56. > :50:58.bewildered and in serious financial difficulty. There are also
:50:59. > :51:02.particular concerns around the mobility component, with over 750
:51:03. > :51:07.becoming them to ability Beatles every week due to withdrawal of
:51:08. > :51:13.essential support. We know from the DWP's own analysis that 146,000
:51:14. > :51:19.people, disabled people, could lose the natural support at the drop from
:51:20. > :51:23.the higher rate ability to no entitlement at all. It is also
:51:24. > :51:27.conceded by the DWP is that there is difficulty in predicting these
:51:28. > :51:33.numbers as the final numbers losing financial support could be in fact
:51:34. > :51:36.much higher. It is vital that the PIP assessment criteria is reviewed
:51:37. > :51:40.to ensure there are clear definitions in place before any
:51:41. > :51:47.changes. The criteria is far too narrow and far too restrictive, and
:51:48. > :51:50.simply does not recognise the impact that many long-term conditions and
:51:51. > :51:54.disabilities have on a person's ability to undertake daily living
:51:55. > :51:58.activities. I'd often feels to take account of Headon and fluctuating
:51:59. > :52:03.symptoms, including cognitive difficulties. What kind of people
:52:04. > :52:11.are suffering under this system? Those with MS, Parkinson is, serious
:52:12. > :52:18.chronic conditions. Often those that such conditions very often suffer
:52:19. > :52:23.from depression and anxiety. That is not specifically diagnosed, spice
:52:24. > :52:25.PIP is concerned, it doesn't exist. Those that long-term conditions and
:52:26. > :52:30.disabilities which include depression and anxiety are a common
:52:31. > :52:37.symptom which will not score under the original descriptor. These
:52:38. > :52:40.changes, on top of the arbitrary cut of ?30 a week to yesterday,
:52:41. > :52:46.work-related activity group, which is also due to be imposed show the
:52:47. > :52:48.complete disregard for the same people in the Government. How can
:52:49. > :52:54.putting disabled people integrate a hardship help to remove barriers or
:52:55. > :53:00.help them get back into work? Where are the disability employment
:53:01. > :53:04.support programmes? We need to treat disabled people with dignity and
:53:05. > :53:09.respect. This Government needs to listen and show some compassion and
:53:10. > :53:16.understanding, and stop trying to build an austerity programme on the
:53:17. > :53:22.backs of the poor and disabled. I want to start by thanking the
:53:23. > :53:26.minister, never for Portsmouth North, last Wednesday as a kid down
:53:27. > :53:29.the escalator she and a group of people were coming in the opposite
:53:30. > :53:34.direction and made it clear that we should leave the building. I thank
:53:35. > :53:39.her for that. Moving on to the debate. I'd like to thank my staff
:53:40. > :53:42.who, like others, having 100% success rate in the appeals that we
:53:43. > :53:47.have taken up in our office. And like to thank you Mr Speaker phone
:53:48. > :53:50.facilitating this debate. The Government should have done so in a
:53:51. > :53:58.timely manner, and they stand condemned for failing to do so in
:53:59. > :54:02.spite of a cross-party requests. And I am pleased that the original
:54:03. > :54:11.prayer which we tabled with his port of the opposition has led to the
:54:12. > :54:15.successful securing of the debate, fighting a member for old east and
:54:16. > :54:20.Saddleworth. As members and said, PIP helps disabled people to meet
:54:21. > :54:24.some of costs related to their impairment and condition. The
:54:25. > :54:30.Government have a stated intention of security -- how does this move to
:54:31. > :54:35.stop people with mental health problems securing extra support,
:54:36. > :54:40.activity 11 I believe to PIP, to help them with their journeys, help
:54:41. > :54:43.achieve parity of esteem? The Government will claim that they are
:54:44. > :54:48.simply affirming what the legislation originally intended. I
:54:49. > :54:56.dispute that. The evidence disputes that. Members have quoted the about
:54:57. > :55:01.audible member for Basingstoke. Particularly the phrase that PIP is
:55:02. > :55:06.designed to assess barriers individuals face, not make judgments
:55:07. > :55:10.based on their impairment type. I quote lord Freud who said, one of
:55:11. > :55:15.the big differences between PIP and DLA is that the personal
:55:16. > :55:20.independence claim it looks at the ability to plan a journey not just
:55:21. > :55:23.the physical capacity. I think these examples alone demonstrate that the
:55:24. > :55:27.Government's intention was to allow people with mental health problems
:55:28. > :55:32.to receive PIP, assist them in their mental health meant they could not
:55:33. > :55:38.travel without assistance. If the Government wants to change the law,
:55:39. > :55:45.because of the extra costs that they have identified associated with
:55:46. > :55:49.funding PIP, so be it. But let's have proper scrutiny, a proper
:55:50. > :55:53.debate and a proper vote, not this piece of Parliamentary
:55:54. > :56:06.jiggery-pokery. Can I advise the minister that she
:56:07. > :56:08.should sit down no later than 5.13. Can I start by thanking all
:56:09. > :56:14.honourable members who have contributed to this debate. There
:56:15. > :56:20.are many points I need to answer and I do not have much time, but I will
:56:21. > :56:25.do my best and any outstanding points, I will write to honourable
:56:26. > :56:28.members about. At the core of Pip's design is the principle that awards
:56:29. > :56:31.should be made according to a person's level of need, not whether
:56:32. > :56:38.their condition is one sort or another. Those with a higher need,
:56:39. > :56:41.great limitations on their ability to participate in society and higher
:56:42. > :56:49.costs associated with their condition will get more support. If
:56:50. > :56:52.I have time, I will pick interventions at the end. This
:56:53. > :56:56.approach, using the social definition of disability, is
:56:57. > :57:01.important. Assessments are complex. The assessor will be trying to
:57:02. > :57:04.understand the impact on that person's life and how their
:57:05. > :57:10.disability or health conditions will affect them in their caring duties,
:57:11. > :57:15.being a parent, in their social life and daily living. As this House has
:57:16. > :57:17.heard many times, recent legal judgments have interpreted the
:57:18. > :57:22.assessment criteria for Pip in ways that are different from what was
:57:23. > :57:26.originally intended under the coalition government. The other
:57:27. > :57:32.tribunal judgments were concerned solely with the interpretation of
:57:33. > :57:36.the wording and not, as the honourable member, my honourable
:57:37. > :57:40.friend from South Cambridgeshire has said, about policy. We have
:57:41. > :57:45.therefore made amendments to clarify the criteria used to decide how much
:57:46. > :57:48.benefits claimants receive. This amendment both restores the original
:57:49. > :57:53.aim of the policy previously agreed by Parliament, which followed
:57:54. > :58:02.extensive consultation and adds clarity for all. As my right
:58:03. > :58:05.honourable friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has said
:58:06. > :58:12.in this House and his letter last week to the honourable lady
:58:13. > :58:17.opposite, it is important to be clear what these regulations are
:58:18. > :58:21.not. They are not a policy change. They are not intended to make new
:58:22. > :58:27.savings and they will not result in any claimant seeing a reduction in
:58:28. > :58:32.the amount of Pip previously awarded by DWP. There is no change to the
:58:33. > :58:41.budget and no change to guidance that we give assessors. To answer
:58:42. > :58:45.the honourable lady's point, she is right that between the ruling is
:58:46. > :58:49.being made under regulations coming into force, there will be a handful
:58:50. > :58:55.of people, currently about eight people, that will have been awarded
:58:56. > :58:58.a higher amount in the tribunal rulings. We are not going to claw
:58:59. > :59:03.back money from those people, but we will look at those cases and it
:59:04. > :59:07.would be our intention to restore them to the original benefit level.
:59:08. > :59:15.That is one reason why we have acted quickly. But people who have
:59:16. > :59:21.previously awarded an amount by DWP and those in the future who will be
:59:22. > :59:26.assessed on the same principles and the same policy, there are amounts
:59:27. > :59:30.will not change. It is appropriate for the Government to act to restore
:59:31. > :59:34.the clarity of the law. As governments have done before and no
:59:35. > :59:39.doubt will continue to do in the future, indeed, the opposition, when
:59:40. > :59:43.in government in 2000, introduced a change to the rules of disability
:59:44. > :59:47.living allowance which overturned a commissioner's decision that held
:59:48. > :59:51.that telephone conversations to someone with severe depression and
:59:52. > :59:57.chronic anxiety should count as qualifying attention for the care
:59:58. > :00:01.component of DLA. That decision was seen to have significantly widened
:00:02. > :00:04.the gateway not only to DLA, but to attendance allowance too, and the
:00:05. > :00:10.Government therefore took a similar decision to the one we have taken to
:00:11. > :00:14.restore the original policy intent. Let me assure the House that we want
:00:15. > :00:17.to make sure that our policies are working and being delivered
:00:18. > :00:24.effectively, and we will continue to review our policies including Pip.
:00:25. > :00:27.This Government has already introduced two formal statutory
:00:28. > :00:34.reviews of the Pip assessment, and we remain committed to publishing
:00:35. > :00:39.Palgrave's independent review as set out in legislation. We will remain
:00:40. > :00:43.committed to continuous improvement and making those improvements to the
:00:44. > :00:46.Pip assessment and our decision-making and improving the
:00:47. > :00:52.advice that we provide people to guide them through the process. We
:00:53. > :00:54.know that feedback from claimant and stakeholders give us valuable
:00:55. > :01:00.insight into the services we deliver. That is why we are setting
:01:01. > :01:06.up the service user panels for Pip and ESA claimants, their carers,
:01:07. > :01:10.advocates and representative groups together evidence on Pip and ESA.
:01:11. > :01:15.These panels will start next month and will run for 12 months, asking
:01:16. > :01:19.for people's experiences of claiming, capturing new ideas for
:01:20. > :01:23.improvement and testing reactions to changes in the proposals. We wish to
:01:24. > :01:32.reach as many people as possible and we are working with charities and
:01:33. > :01:36.representatives to promote awareness and draw on their expertise.
:01:37. > :01:39.Following reference to those panels last month in the other place, we
:01:40. > :01:44.have started to see requests from claimant is keen to participate. We
:01:45. > :01:47.are also carrying out pilots to test whether there are any benefits to
:01:48. > :01:53.audio recording face-to-face assessments. Those pilots started on
:01:54. > :01:58.the 13th of March and will last for six weeks, involving 400 claimants.
:01:59. > :02:01.We are also trialling telephoning claimants to ensure all the evidence
:02:02. > :02:12.they wish to be considered has been submitted. This is important to
:02:13. > :02:16.reduce those going to appeal. And we are giving fuller reasons to people
:02:17. > :02:19.as to why they have not been successful to ensure that they
:02:20. > :02:23.understand exactly why. We have strengthened clinical support and
:02:24. > :02:26.mentoring for health care professionals that carry out
:02:27. > :02:31.assessments. Our assessors are discussing with that person the
:02:32. > :02:35.impacts on their life prior to taking a medical history. The right
:02:36. > :02:39.honourable gentleman from North Durham raised the issue of ensuring
:02:40. > :02:42.that there is support throughout the assessment process for people
:02:43. > :02:53.particularly with a mental health condition. He knows there are
:02:54. > :02:56.processes in place and markers for such individuals. We are always
:02:57. > :03:10.interested in what we can do to improve that. Please bear with me.
:03:11. > :03:15.The health and work green paper is looking at the issue of shared
:03:16. > :03:21.health records that honourable members have mentioned. And we have
:03:22. > :03:26.also been working with Motability to ensure that the issues around
:03:27. > :03:30.appeals and the counter-productive bureaucracy that honourable members
:03:31. > :03:34.have referred to are resolved and we will report to the House as soon as
:03:35. > :03:40.possible. I can assure my honourable friend the member for Kensington
:03:41. > :03:43.that a particular focus for that has been young people and students in
:03:44. > :03:47.particular. We are also looking at what further we can do, and I can
:03:48. > :03:54.give assurances to the honourable lady for Wealden that we are working
:03:55. > :03:59.with the RNIB. Let me turn to the specifics on mental health and the
:04:00. > :04:02.regulations. Supporting people with mental illness is a priority for
:04:03. > :04:06.this government. That is why we are spending more on mental health
:04:07. > :04:12.provision than ever before. 11.4 billion in this year alone. We have
:04:13. > :04:17.introduced the first-ever access and waiting standards for mental health
:04:18. > :04:21.services, and these changes and the investment are already making a
:04:22. > :04:28.difference. Since 2010, the number of people accessing mental health
:04:29. > :04:32.services has risen by 40%. And the number of consultant psychiatrists
:04:33. > :04:36.in this country has risen by 5%. We are working to join up the health
:04:37. > :04:41.care system, the welfare system and society more widely so that we focus
:04:42. > :04:44.on the strength of people with disabilities or health conditions
:04:45. > :04:49.and what they can do if properly supported. It is for that reason
:04:50. > :04:53.that in the summer of 2015, the health and work unit was created in
:04:54. > :05:03.the Department of Health and wire in October last year, we published
:05:04. > :05:06.improving lives... Mr Speaker, you rightly ensured that the minister
:05:07. > :05:10.had enough time to answer questions. None of that is about the key issue
:05:11. > :05:14.in the regulations. The right honourable gentleman must seek to
:05:15. > :05:18.intervene if he can and pursue other mechanisms if he can't. I am coming
:05:19. > :05:23.on to the revelations. The key issue of this debate is that people are
:05:24. > :05:28.questioning the parity of mental health with physical health, and I
:05:29. > :05:31.am wishing to point out to the House that mental health has never been
:05:32. > :05:39.more prominent on any Government's addenda before. If you allow me to
:05:40. > :05:43.turn to the issue of the regulations, I will not repeat the
:05:44. > :05:46.statistics about the number of people with a mental health
:05:47. > :05:51.condition receiving Pip more favourably than was on DLA. But let
:05:52. > :06:00.me tackle the issues around regulations. Several members have
:06:01. > :06:03.concluded that someone who is suffering from psychological
:06:04. > :06:11.distress, that would not count towards their scoring and that they
:06:12. > :06:18.would somehow be excluded from scoring the maximum amount on the
:06:19. > :06:22.descriptors. That is not the case. As time is tight, I could perhaps
:06:23. > :06:30.place some case studies in the library. But if you are suffering
:06:31. > :06:41.from autism, PTSD or depression, you can score 12 points on that
:06:42. > :06:45.descriptor. We have used the most appropriate Parliamentary procedure.
:06:46. > :06:52.It is set out in the welfare reform act of 2012. In light of the
:06:53. > :06:56.significant and urgent consequences of these judgments, these amendments
:06:57. > :07:00.were passed by the social security advisory committee on the 8th of
:07:01. > :07:04.March after the regulations were laid. We have welcomed the response
:07:05. > :07:10.we have received from the committee and the fact that they did not wish
:07:11. > :07:14.to have the regulations referred to them for public consultation. We
:07:15. > :07:18.have also responded to the recommendations made by the
:07:19. > :07:24.committee. We have made it clear that we are committed to continuous
:07:25. > :07:28.improvement as we recognise its importance both in terms of quality
:07:29. > :07:34.and consistency to ensure that Pip policy is clearly articulated. We
:07:35. > :07:36.will also ensure that health care professionals who carry out the
:07:37. > :07:40.assessment is fully understand what those amendments mean. The
:07:41. > :07:49.regulations were today passed by the joint committee on statutory
:07:50. > :07:52.instruments. In conclusion, I will reassure the House that these
:07:53. > :07:57.regulations simply restore the original aim of the policy as
:07:58. > :08:02.previously debated. We are delivering Pip in line with its
:08:03. > :08:06.original intent. These changes will not result in claimants seeing a
:08:07. > :08:13.reduction in the amount of Pip awarded by the department. Order.
:08:14. > :08:16.The question is that this House has considered changes to personal
:08:17. > :08:20.independence payment regulations. As many as are of the opinion, say
:08:21. > :08:31."aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it, the ayes have it.
:08:32. > :08:38.Point of order, Mr Carton. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On an intervention
:08:39. > :08:42.to my honourable friend the member for East Ham, I forgot to mention a
:08:43. > :08:53.direct interest. My wife sits as a judge. I apologise to you and the
:08:54. > :08:56.House. I appreciate that. Mr Speaker, can I apologise to you and
:08:57. > :09:02.the House for inadvertently misleading it during my German
:09:03. > :09:11.debate -- adjournment debate last Thursday on the incinerator? Said
:09:12. > :09:17.that in 2012, Hertfordshire County Council objected and that the
:09:18. > :09:22.company was now proposing 12 HGV movements a day. This figure was
:09:23. > :09:29.provided to me on the 4th of March 2000 16. I have since discovered
:09:30. > :09:38.that the actual number is 268 HGV movements a day. Nothing Veolia
:09:39. > :09:42.tells me turns out to be the reality of the situation, but I owe it to
:09:43. > :09:48.this House to do my homework more thoroughly. So I apologise to you
:09:49. > :09:53.again for misleading this House and my esteemed colleagues in this
:09:54. > :09:57.place, who indicated that they share my sense of outrage. I am grateful
:09:58. > :10:05.to the honourable gentleman for his point of order. He is certainly a
:10:06. > :10:09.witty wag. But I would add that as far as Veolia is concerned, the
:10:10. > :10:13.honourable gentleman is a formidable foe. I rather imagine the company is
:10:14. > :10:16.discovering that now, if it didn't know before. Point of order, Sir
:10:17. > :10:25.Simon Burns. TRANSLATION: As you will appreciate,
:10:26. > :10:34.my honourable friend was put in a most unfortunate situation because
:10:35. > :10:38.he was giving duff information which he used in good faith, and then
:10:39. > :10:44.turned out that the incorrect information that he gave was an
:10:45. > :10:50.under estimate of the severe impact those journeys were going to have on
:10:51. > :10:57.his constituency and local community. Could you advise us of
:10:58. > :11:02.any satisfactory way in which notwithstanding my honourable
:11:03. > :11:07.friend's generous apology to the House, that the people who where the
:11:08. > :11:14.perpetrators of this disinformation could be called to this place to
:11:15. > :11:17.explain why they embarrassed my honourable friend, and lead to
:11:18. > :11:22.misleading letters being giving in a debate which did have the effect on
:11:23. > :11:29.the views of other honourable members listening to the debate? I
:11:30. > :11:37.am grateful to him for that point of order. Summoning summer to the bar
:11:38. > :11:41.of the House is rarely used at a disciplinary device, and of course
:11:42. > :11:44.it is an extremely serious matter. I would have to reflect very carefully
:11:45. > :11:47.on whether it would be appropriate in that case. Even if it were not, I
:11:48. > :11:53.think they might honourable gentleman would agree with me that
:11:54. > :12:00.in the circumstances the least we might all expect is that an apology
:12:01. > :12:06.would be profit by the company, because there is no shame in making
:12:07. > :12:10.a mistake, but there certainly is in failing to recognise the fact that
:12:11. > :12:15.one's done so and failing to apologise for having done so. I will
:12:16. > :12:19.wait to see whether we received an apology, and if I receive any such
:12:20. > :12:25.apology, the Right Honourable gentleman will be the first hear of
:12:26. > :12:39.it. If there are no farther point of order. We come now to the rogue RAM
:12:40. > :12:50.motion, the ministers move. -- programme motion. I think the ayes
:12:51. > :13:04.have it. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day.
:13:05. > :13:07.Pension scheme and mended to further consider. I must now put the
:13:08. > :13:10.question is necessary to bring to the conclusion proceedings of
:13:11. > :13:14.consideration. The members will be aware that when the House because
:13:15. > :13:17.they considered the Bill on Wednesday last, the setting was
:13:18. > :13:22.suspended and subsequently the House adjourned during the division on the
:13:23. > :13:26.question that new cars and property for the second time. I will begin
:13:27. > :13:31.proceedings in the Bill today by putting the question to the House.
:13:32. > :13:37.The question is that new clause would be read a second time. As many
:13:38. > :14:30.of that opinion, the iMac. To the contrary, no.
:14:31. > :26:26.The ayes to the right, 230. The noes, 279. -- 289. The noes have it.
:26:27. > :26:31.We continued clause two. -- new clause two. As many as are of the
:26:32. > :27:45.opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".
:27:46. > :27:58.John. He requests that new clause to be added to the Bill. As many as are
:27:59. > :34:49.of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".
:34:50. > :38:25.Order. The ayes to the right, 187. The noes to the left, 289.
:38:26. > :38:40.The noes have it. Unlock. We now come to amendment, the question is
:38:41. > :38:43.the member moment will be read. As many as are of the opinion, say
:38:44. > :39:58."aye". To the contrary, "no". Division, clear the lobbies.
:39:59. > :40:13.Quick. Order. The question to the amendment. As many as are of the
:40:14. > :46:50.opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".
:46:51. > :49:14.These lock the doors. -- locked the doors.
:49:15. > :49:40.order. The ayes to the right, 188. The noes to the left, 286. The ayes
:49:41. > :49:48.to the Rye, 188. The noes to the left, drugs and 86. The noes have
:49:49. > :49:59.it. Consideration completed, third reading. Minister to move. Deputy
:50:00. > :50:04.Speaker, we return to this Bill after last Wednesday's, to give
:50:05. > :50:07.vent. My thoughts and sympathies are to those affected but I would also
:50:08. > :50:11.like to take this opportunity to thank all my loyal members of both
:50:12. > :50:15.sides of the House for their support and professionalism on what was a
:50:16. > :50:22.very difficult time for us all. But it is now my pleasure to beg the
:50:23. > :50:29.Bill be now read for a third time. Mr Speaker, or Madam Deputy is
:50:30. > :50:33.bigger, now Madam Deputy Speaker, this Bill, I'm very pleased that she
:50:34. > :50:39.is here, because she hasn't heard this before. This Bill focuses on
:50:40. > :50:44.master trusts, including a new opposition regime for them and
:50:45. > :50:46.setting out how they must satisfy pensions regulators of certain
:50:47. > :50:52.criteria before they can begin continue to operate. The criteria
:50:53. > :50:56.were developed in discussion with the industry in response to specific
:50:57. > :51:01.key risks. While the Bill provides some detail, much more will be set
:51:02. > :51:06.out in regulations after further consultation with the industry and
:51:07. > :51:10.others. The Bill gives the regulator new powers to supervise master
:51:11. > :51:13.trusts and to step in when schemes fall below the required standards,
:51:14. > :51:18.and it gives the readily get additional powers when master trusts
:51:19. > :51:22.experience the risk events. His scheme that has experienced such an
:51:23. > :51:27.event will be required to resolve the issue or wind-up. Along with the
:51:28. > :51:31.regulator 's new powers, this supports continuity of saving for
:51:32. > :51:35.members, protect members where is the Mr wind-up, and supports
:51:36. > :51:39.employers with the automatic enrolment duties. To protect members
:51:40. > :51:45.of existing schemes, some aspects of the regime will have effect from the
:51:46. > :51:51.20th of October this year, 2016, last year, Madam Deputy Speaker.
:51:52. > :51:54.They will report triggering events to the regulator and restrictions on
:51:55. > :51:59.certain charges and the event is resolved. But the Bill also amends
:52:00. > :52:02.existing legislation so that regulations can override relevant
:52:03. > :52:07.contract terms that are inconsistent with those regulations. We intend to
:52:08. > :52:14.use this provision along with existing powers to make regulations
:52:15. > :52:18.capping early exit charges in some occupational pension schemes. Madam
:52:19. > :52:23.Deputy Speaker, when this Bill was introduced in the other place last
:52:24. > :52:26.October, it was welcomed across the pensions industry, and as an
:52:27. > :52:32.essential piece of legislation that will protect millions of people who
:52:33. > :52:35.now safely guard their time to retire -- pensions trust. It has
:52:36. > :52:40.been welcomed by all sides in both houses. We have listened to the
:52:41. > :52:45.points raised in both houses and continued to engage in is with
:52:46. > :52:48.stakeholders and I can confirm that we have brought forward a number of
:52:49. > :52:53.amendments to address their concerns. Any other place,
:52:54. > :53:00.amendments at committee stage mainly related to how the regulator would
:53:01. > :53:02.enforce the new enforcement regime. Amendments focused on registration
:53:03. > :53:08.making powers in the Bill, acknowledging the report any
:53:09. > :53:11.delegating powers in the reform committee. One amendment inserted
:53:12. > :53:15.that powers make limited consequential changes to legislation
:53:16. > :53:22.to ensure the law works as it's huge. We also make a change to allow
:53:23. > :53:25.that provisions of fraud compensation, pensions act 2004, to
:53:26. > :53:29.be modified for master trusts, and that the laws third reading would
:53:30. > :53:35.include a minor technical chase to clarify that regulations may require
:53:36. > :53:41.them to be audited. At committee stage in this House, we agreed on
:53:42. > :53:45.further changes. First it removed a cause that had been inserted after a
:53:46. > :53:50.narrow vote in the other place which provided for a scheme to meet costs
:53:51. > :53:54.by a masterclass is being wound up without the necessary funds to
:53:55. > :53:59.transfer accrued benefits. We discussed this once again at report
:54:00. > :54:03.stage earlier this afternoon, last week that was, when the House
:54:04. > :54:08.excepted the Government's argument that this was unnecessary. In
:54:09. > :54:13.response to a point raised by another place by unintended
:54:14. > :54:16.consequences of the deal, we made amendments in relation to any part
:54:17. > :54:23.of the scheme, not just the money purchase section. The original
:54:24. > :54:26.requirement in the Bill that the scheme is a separate legal entity
:54:27. > :54:30.must try at activity directly relating to the Master trust schemes
:54:31. > :54:33.in question was amended to address concerns about the impact of this
:54:34. > :54:38.requirement on business. The amendments enable scheme finders to
:54:39. > :54:49.operate more than one master trust and to give the estate the
:54:50. > :54:51.accessibility to make exceptions, and Deputy Speaker, I would like to
:54:52. > :54:57.thank honourable members from both sides of the House, the honourable
:54:58. > :55:00.gentleman from Stockton North, who is the shadow spokesman, and the
:55:01. > :55:07.honourable gentleman from Ross Skye and Lochaber particular. I can now
:55:08. > :55:11.pronounce the name of this constituency without reading it, I
:55:12. > :55:15.thank for his contribution. An electable tickly thank the build
:55:16. > :55:19.team from DWP and everyone who has contributed to make this Bill, and
:55:20. > :55:25.leave it is an excellent piece of legislation. I beg to move.
:55:26. > :55:34.The question is that the Bill be now read a third time. Thank you, Madam
:55:35. > :55:39.Deputy Speaker. As we know, the passage of this pensions Bill was
:55:40. > :55:42.interrupted this time last week as a result of a horrendous attack that
:55:43. > :55:49.took place just metres away from this place. I would like to echo
:55:50. > :55:53.remarks of the Minister and express my sincere condolences to everyone
:55:54. > :55:58.who is grieving for a loved one or who is recovering from their
:55:59. > :56:02.injuries. I also want to express my gratitude to the emergency services,
:56:03. > :56:07.especially to the incredible support team that we have working in and
:56:08. > :56:13.around this amazing place. So just to say that how treasured you all
:56:14. > :56:18.are. Onto the Bill. I'd like to put on record my thanks to my honourable
:56:19. > :56:23.friend, the Member for Stockton North, whose unstinting work on this
:56:24. > :56:28.Bill. Our coverage in the other place who's always been mentioned,
:56:29. > :56:38.and they kicked this process. And all our teams for putting this Bill
:56:39. > :56:46.in motion, and increasing protections for the savers being as
:56:47. > :56:50.good as possible. It will come as no surprise that I regret that he has
:56:51. > :56:54.been intransigent and frail to accept our amendments. He may have
:56:55. > :56:59.been constrained but I wish we could have done more on this. It really
:57:00. > :57:04.would have strengthened the Bill. And to have protected savers more
:57:05. > :57:10.than it currently does. However, as it does stand, the Bill goes some
:57:11. > :57:15.way to it increasing protection place for Master Trust savers the
:57:16. > :57:19.vast majority of whom will automatically involve through the
:57:20. > :57:26.sponsoring employee. Employer, sorry. This has not been the easiest
:57:27. > :57:30.Bill to scrutinise. The content is technical of course, but there is an
:57:31. > :57:36.unusual amount of legislation left to secretary regulation. I think
:57:37. > :57:40.this is a real concern, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's becoming a hallmark of
:57:41. > :57:44.this government, it is entirely regrettable. It is not only brought
:57:45. > :57:49.government, with criticisms of the government, who suggested government
:57:50. > :57:53.was writing legislation in lieu of policy, but it also made it
:57:54. > :57:58.difficult for this House to get a full picture of how this legislation
:57:59. > :58:03.will put rate, crew operate in practice. Nevertheless, we point to
:58:04. > :58:07.significant gaps in this government's approach to legislation
:58:08. > :58:10.as well as some parts we believe require the further thought. I'd
:58:11. > :58:16.like to briefly touched on some points here. As my honourable friend
:58:17. > :58:19.mentioned last week, we tried to table amendments to this Bill at
:58:20. > :58:26.committee stage, to enact our commitment to the women who we would
:58:27. > :58:29.extend pension credit to those worst affected. In showing hundreds of
:58:30. > :58:36.thousands of this woman became eligible for up to 156 pounds a
:58:37. > :58:40.week. Sadly these amendments were not selected. It is a disappointment
:58:41. > :58:44.the government did not use the Bill to address the plight of this woman.
:58:45. > :58:46.Labour has a clear costed plan targeted to the most vulnerable
:58:47. > :58:54.women and we are exploring further options to help as many as we can.
:58:55. > :58:58.And given we understand pensions Minister, can put me right, this is
:58:59. > :59:02.going to be the only pensions Bill in this Parliament, there are many
:59:03. > :59:07.other pensions issues that should have been included in a more pump
:59:08. > :59:14.comprehensive pensions Bill. It is a wasted opportunity. Onto the
:59:15. > :59:19.specifics of the Bill. On the funder of last resort, it is a shame that
:59:20. > :59:23.the government did not heed the advice of our noble Lords in the
:59:24. > :59:28.other place. And provide provision to guarantee fund of last resort.
:59:29. > :59:31.Our amendment would ensure the scheme members are protected in the
:59:32. > :59:35.event of a Master Trust being insolvent. It would have offered
:59:36. > :59:41.them a clear route for the drawdown of the saving. The Minister believes
:59:42. > :59:47.that the new regulation regulatory framework. Provides the material to
:59:48. > :59:52.make this cause unnecessary. He seemed unwilling to give a guarantee
:59:53. > :59:57.that no future Master Trust will go bust. I'm glad the Minister has
:59:58. > :00:02.faith in them regulatory regime and I hope his faith is justified for
:00:03. > :00:09.the sake of scheme members. Madam Deputy Speaker, we hope to include,
:00:10. > :00:15.improve the clause of the Bill. Under this, the regulator can step
:00:16. > :00:19.in for a team elation and each unit were failing Master Trust. The
:00:20. > :00:24.government has made an exception of people getting divorced to allow
:00:25. > :00:28.them at to access, access funds. It but did not see fit to offer the
:00:29. > :00:32.same opportunity to, for example, disabled people or those in ill
:00:33. > :00:35.health. This is likely to cause distress to those in desperate need
:00:36. > :00:39.of drawing down the saving. The government also did little to
:00:40. > :00:44.consider what would happen to the savers affected by eight clause
:00:45. > :00:47.order who want to continue putting contribution from the salary and the
:00:48. > :00:53.sponsoring employer aside for retirement. Our amendment had
:00:54. > :00:56.suggested that the employer take responsibility for holding onto the
:00:57. > :01:00.savings until the clause order had ended or a new Master Trust found.
:01:01. > :01:07.Again, the government unfortunately rejected this practical suggestion.
:01:08. > :01:10.With regard to the issue of transparency regarding costs and
:01:11. > :01:14.charges this is one of the scandals of the pension industry. In spite of
:01:15. > :01:18.government promises to tackle it for years, I can remember being a member
:01:19. > :01:24.of the work and pensions Select Committee, going back several years
:01:25. > :01:29.and one of the Treasury ministers promising in the last Parliament
:01:30. > :01:33.that this would be done. We are still waiting. It is one of those
:01:34. > :01:39.issues that unfortunately, we were taking far too long to tackle. I
:01:40. > :01:42.appreciate we got a review that will be published at the end of the year,
:01:43. > :01:45.but that would be too late the legislation. It will be up to the
:01:46. > :01:52.industry to determine what and how and when they will publish around
:01:53. > :01:58.the costs. With charges, this is the real scandal, I wonder if anyone can
:01:59. > :02:03.say how much they know the pension scheme is being charged. It has been
:02:04. > :02:11.estimated that is up to ?120 billion a year, and that affects all savers.
:02:12. > :02:15.We need to decide, really, whose side we are on. Were we look after
:02:16. > :02:20.savers or I began to prop up the pensions industry? We tried to raise
:02:21. > :02:25.the issue of a page costs and charges being applied to members by
:02:26. > :02:28.investment managers and brokers but the government failed to respond
:02:29. > :02:32.again. For too long, people have been encouraged but the faith and
:02:33. > :02:37.the money in a distance savings pot. With very little information about
:02:38. > :02:40.where that was invested, the performance of the savings and
:02:41. > :02:45.importantly, how much the investment was costly in terms of costs and
:02:46. > :02:49.charges they incurred. In short, neither the scheme trustees nor the
:02:50. > :02:53.scheme members have been able to adequately ascertain whether there
:02:54. > :02:59.were getting value for money to the investment. Enormous every market,
:03:00. > :03:01.people looking to purchase a or service provider with basic
:03:02. > :03:05.information about performance and cost of what they are looking to buy
:03:06. > :03:09.in advance of the purchase. This is a necessary requirement to ensure
:03:10. > :03:13.they are getting finally the money but there's basic principle is not
:03:14. > :03:18.operating in our pension system. Part two of the Bill makes a small
:03:19. > :03:24.step towards greater transparency and charges applied to those hoping
:03:25. > :03:27.to make the most of pension freedoms and remove the savings from the
:03:28. > :03:31.Master Trust. But we maintain that is is not enough. Much more could
:03:32. > :03:35.have been done to shine a light in transactions cost being applied to
:03:36. > :03:37.investment returns. The Minister committed the government to
:03:38. > :03:41.implement the recommendations of the SCA but what and the affluent
:03:42. > :03:43.merchant and marking off or surely this could've been a great
:03:44. > :03:50.opportunity for the government to make a start. There is work to be
:03:51. > :03:55.done to tackle the problem of opaque and of, or as excessive charges from
:03:56. > :04:03.workers savings and investment managers. Currently the Bill merely
:04:04. > :04:07.scratches the surface. There remains unanswered questions on the
:04:08. > :04:10.government despite our attempts to clarify. We believe this Bill should
:04:11. > :04:14.increase member representation on trustee board. It is the money being
:04:15. > :04:18.invested and they should be involved. There are pensions act of
:04:19. > :04:22.1995 introduced the requirement for company pension schemes do have
:04:23. > :04:27.member nominated trustees. If the scheme 's sole trustee is a company
:04:28. > :04:31.including the employer rather the then the individual, scheme members
:04:32. > :04:35.will have a right to nominate directors to the company, member
:04:36. > :04:41.nominated get directors. The 2004 act, pensions act, in the enshrined
:04:42. > :04:45.the right have at least a third of trustees and trust -based scheme.
:04:46. > :04:48.This comes from basic democratic principles that those for whom the
:04:49. > :04:54.decisions have been taken should have a say in those decisions. The
:04:55. > :04:58.pension regulator agrees. That Master Trust are covered by this
:04:59. > :05:02.legislation which is why some already have member nominated
:05:03. > :05:05.trustees. They have however turned a blind eye to this matter on the
:05:06. > :05:11.basis of having multiple sponsoring employees presented. We do not
:05:12. > :05:15.believe this is acceptable and have urged the government to try and
:05:16. > :05:18.apply the law in this regard. Scheme members should be represented to
:05:19. > :05:24.trustees of Master Trust funds, it is, as I've said, they have a direct
:05:25. > :05:28.interest in ensuring a sound and a sustainable investment strategy
:05:29. > :05:32.delivered at good value. It is disappointing that the government
:05:33. > :05:36.did not take up this matter which requires urgent action. Nor was a
:05:37. > :05:40.convincing argument given as to why Master Trust should not have to meet
:05:41. > :05:45.the statutory requirement especially in light of the increased risk being
:05:46. > :05:49.bought by scheme members. Finally, it is disappointing that the Bill
:05:50. > :05:55.also does nothing to build upon the success of Labour's policy to
:05:56. > :06:00.involve automatically, by ensuring the master that is accessible, and
:06:01. > :06:05.encourage groups that work excluded by automatic enrolment by the
:06:06. > :06:09.government's changes to eligibility criteria. Throughout these debates,
:06:10. > :06:13.we have recognised the government has announced review of automatic
:06:14. > :06:18.enrolment, but we have not heard the explanation of why the review comes
:06:19. > :06:22.after the spill. The self-employed, women, those working multiple jobs,
:06:23. > :06:28.carers and people on low incomes can all benefit hugely from enhanced
:06:29. > :06:35.opportunities to say -- save towards the inner retirement. The government
:06:36. > :06:39.will not commit to a review, we will hold them to account to review
:06:40. > :06:46.itself, took to ensure that these excluded groups are dated. To
:06:47. > :06:51.conclude, we welcome legislation to strengthen the regulation of Master
:06:52. > :06:55.Trust. We have tried to address serious issues in these debates
:06:56. > :06:59.through pragmatic engagement with the Bill and highlighting its many
:07:00. > :07:02.gaps. One would have thought that the government will have time to
:07:03. > :07:05.include much more detail in this piece of Barbara legislation, to
:07:06. > :07:11.allow a proper scrutiny of both places. It seems however, that they
:07:12. > :07:21.are and are unable to get their act together as part of pensions. I can
:07:22. > :07:26.hear the noise from the other benches, I think there is dissent
:07:27. > :07:31.there. We hope that through the debates, we have drawn attention to
:07:32. > :07:34.these important issues and the need to create further security and
:07:35. > :07:46.dignity in retirement for working families across the UK. Thank you.
:07:47. > :07:53.Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I also say myself with the remarks
:07:54. > :07:56.that were made by the Minister, the about the events of last Wednesday,
:07:57. > :08:05.we should also reflect the debate outside the chamber that
:08:06. > :08:18.our thoughts are very much with those in the line of duty. The
:08:19. > :08:22.police officer that lost his life, and the public who lost their lives.
:08:23. > :08:26.Our thoughts are with them. When having this debate, we should
:08:27. > :08:31.reflect on our responsibility in this House. That is to make sure we
:08:32. > :08:36.are creating an architecture that creates a climate that consumers
:08:37. > :08:40.around the UK can safely invest in pension schemes and savings, there
:08:41. > :08:45.was a level of trust. On that basis, I welcome broadly, this Bill in
:08:46. > :08:51.improving that landscape. It's an important step forward. Insofar as
:08:52. > :08:55.that it brings a level of protection which is necessary for those who are
:08:56. > :09:01.investing through automatic enrolment. It is an crucial that --
:09:02. > :09:06.is it is crucial that it has come forward. I like that the
:09:07. > :09:09.spokespersons from the Labour front bench would see the amendments by
:09:10. > :09:14.the government. Having said that, I was encouraged by the response of
:09:15. > :09:19.the Minister who responded last week, in particular to the amendment
:09:20. > :09:23.that had been moved in relation to section 70 five. And that there is a
:09:24. > :09:28.commitment that can come back out on leaders of this issue. I think the
:09:29. > :09:34.Bill has got to be seen within the wider context of what we are seeking
:09:35. > :09:38.to achieve in pension. The work two clauses that are worth taking for
:09:39. > :09:41.debate, one was on the establishment of a pensions and savings
:09:42. > :09:44.commission, and I still believe that this is something that the
:09:45. > :09:49.government should consider. There is an awful lot going on on the
:09:50. > :09:56.landscape. Some of that has been described by the Labour in the
:09:57. > :10:00.speech have heard. The fact that we've had the review, we got the
:10:01. > :10:06.green paper on benefit pension schemes, and we've got the paper.
:10:07. > :10:11.There is a willingness to work Collegiate league in order to
:10:12. > :10:15.improve the landscape of all of these factors. I forward to the
:10:16. > :10:20.debates we will be having on taking this forward. It all comes back to
:10:21. > :10:26.the point that I made about how we create confidence that
:10:27. > :10:32.If I put this in the context of the defining benefit in the paper that
:10:33. > :10:36.came out, one of the most striking things is the figure which is
:10:37. > :10:41.contained in the front of that for the court, which indicates that the
:10:42. > :10:45.average is ?70,000, and I think we all have to accept that pension
:10:46. > :10:49.saving is not done at appropriate level in this country, and we all
:10:50. > :10:54.want to see people saving to the extent that they can have dignity in
:10:55. > :10:57.their retirement, also in the workplace pension and in the state
:10:58. > :11:03.pension as well. I look forward to working with the Government to have
:11:04. > :11:08.that review. We know that whilst they are improving that landscape
:11:09. > :11:13.for protection for consumers today, we know there is more we need to do
:11:14. > :11:17.in terms of protecting in particular are a lot of women who are excluded
:11:18. > :11:23.from this, those who are in part-time jobs, below the threshold,
:11:24. > :11:25.and those who are self-employed and are often exploited. I applaud the
:11:26. > :11:29.Government for what they are doing here, I see it as a very necessary
:11:30. > :11:34.step forward, but there's much more that can do in working together for
:11:35. > :11:45.mutual benefit for those who invest in pension schemes. The question is
:11:46. > :11:54.that the Bill should be ready third time. Those in favour say aye,
:11:55. > :11:58.though to the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The clerk will now proceed
:11:59. > :12:09.to read the title of the Private Bill set down for consideration
:12:10. > :12:14.today. - level Bill, second reading. -- the question is that the Bill be
:12:15. > :12:21.now read i.e. Second time, Mr Kevin Foster. Thank you Madam Deputy is
:12:22. > :12:27.bigger and it is a joy to hear your colleagues so loudly in moving this
:12:28. > :12:30.Bill. We move for this Bill to be read a second time. It might be
:12:31. > :12:34.helpful for the House of I give some background and reasons for this Bill
:12:35. > :12:42.being here. The first point for those... Are happily give way once I
:12:43. > :12:45.make a bit progress. They will be opportunity for debate. It might be
:12:46. > :12:48.helpful for the House to get some background and the reasons for this
:12:49. > :12:54.Bill being here. The first point for those not familiar with it, what is
:12:55. > :12:59.the middle level? It is the central and larger section, the great level
:13:00. > :13:06.that was reclaimed by drainage in the mid-17th century. There is a
:13:07. > :13:12.north-west and east, to the north by the previously trained Martin
:13:13. > :13:17.stilts, and the Dom and amid lovely river system consisted of 120 miles
:13:18. > :13:20.of water courses, approximately 100 miles of which are statutory
:13:21. > :13:27.navigations, a catchment of just 170,000 acres. Vitriol of the
:13:28. > :13:29.fenland it lies below means sea-level. The middle level
:13:30. > :13:35.Commissioners, together with the local internal drainage board,
:13:36. > :13:40.operate a highly complex water level management system. This now see the
:13:41. > :13:44.various water uses and requirements and alleviated the flooding of land
:13:45. > :13:47.and property. The efficient operation of it this system is vital
:13:48. > :13:52.to the safety and prosperity of over 100,000 people who live and work in
:13:53. > :13:58.area and the 26,000 properties that depend on that system. In a moment,
:13:59. > :14:02.I will just it make a little bit more progress. The operators of the
:14:03. > :14:06.commissioners and the local board, much of the fenland would be under
:14:07. > :14:12.water for much of the year, and many of the present land uses would be
:14:13. > :14:18.impossible. I will now give way. I thank him for giving way. The levels
:14:19. > :14:20.are very important because they often have a quite sensitive
:14:21. > :14:26.archaeology. I wonder whether what he is proposing will effect that in
:14:27. > :14:30.the slightest. I thank the honourable member for his
:14:31. > :14:32.intervention. By understanding from these response of the Bill is that
:14:33. > :14:38.this is about framework for management of the levels, it is not
:14:39. > :14:41.about specific developments are any projects. Visit the commissioners
:14:42. > :14:45.went to decide this or that, they would have to go through the usual
:14:46. > :14:51.processes to get permissions, and given some historical nature of this
:14:52. > :14:59.site we are talking about, that would be taken into consideration. I
:15:00. > :15:05.thank him for that intervention. Can I ask him, but his status as? He's
:15:06. > :15:10.telling us about this Bill and the location of it, but he doesn't
:15:11. > :15:14.represent an area anywhere near the affected area, and I wondered why it
:15:15. > :15:20.has not been possible for the promoters of this Bill to find a
:15:21. > :15:24.local MP who is sympathetic to the points that are being put forward. I
:15:25. > :15:31.thank him for his intervention. I know he is a scrutinise bills, even
:15:32. > :15:35.if they are not those that directly relate to Christchurch. Like me, he
:15:36. > :15:45.takes his duties as a member of the overall very seriously in terms of
:15:46. > :15:52.promoting legislation and debating. I know he champions in this chamber
:15:53. > :15:56.and rightly so. Where this Bill has been discussed some of the MPs are
:15:57. > :15:59.directly affected and Government ministers, Inc and so this is a
:16:00. > :16:04.Private Bill and they are unable to move it as he will be aware, at
:16:05. > :16:08.least BA backbench member for obvious reasons. Given the address I
:16:09. > :16:11.have expressed in waterways before and also in seeing consistent
:16:12. > :16:16.management in terms of this area, that it was appropriate that this
:16:17. > :16:20.legislation fell attached to be presented to the House and all
:16:21. > :16:23.members have the opportunity to dissipate in the debate. And sure we
:16:24. > :16:28.will hear from me is one of the local members affected and from the
:16:29. > :16:39.local honourable gentlemen cell who will share his own insights. I am
:16:40. > :16:42.not directly affected, but the trade and waterways in question are
:16:43. > :16:46.adjacent to my own constituency and I support their 100% and would like
:16:47. > :16:50.the way he's moving. I figured as appropriate, that having a local MP
:16:51. > :16:54.moving in, maybe there could be conflict of some kind, so having an
:16:55. > :16:57.MP from another part of the country to give the commissioners more power
:16:58. > :17:01.and is a great deal of sense, and we're grateful him. At like my
:17:02. > :17:07.honourable friend for that intervention. I couldn't have put it
:17:08. > :17:11.better myself. Moving on to buy a Bill. As many will know, I made a
:17:12. > :17:15.point on Friday that legislating is not a thing to do for the fun of it
:17:16. > :17:19.or a unique form of parliamentary sport. For a Bill to be worthy of
:17:20. > :17:26.Parliamentary time, there must be a clear need for it. This Private Bill
:17:27. > :17:29.is being promoted by the commissioners that our concert you
:17:30. > :17:33.did on the middle level act 1862. The commissioners provide flood
:17:34. > :17:36.defence and water level management in the area, and the navigational
:17:37. > :17:40.authority from the middle level river system. The legal framework
:17:41. > :17:46.that covers the commissioners navigation function is made of a
:17:47. > :17:49.number of 18th and 19th century Acts, they dilated waterways that
:17:50. > :17:59.may themselves be laid out in the 17th century. May act of you, Madam
:18:00. > :18:07.Deputy is Speaker, my apologies for my lateness. I was detained. With my
:18:08. > :18:12.honourable friend agree that the area covered only middle level
:18:13. > :18:20.commission is not strictly analogous to other authorities in that the
:18:21. > :18:25.middle level area is essentially a connected to basins rather than
:18:26. > :18:30.bespoke revellers. I thank him for his intervention. Again showing his
:18:31. > :18:34.exceptional knowledge of his constituency and the assets that the
:18:35. > :18:38.board. He is right, a fundamental beaver commando when told about
:18:39. > :18:42.framework regulation. This is about the drainage system, but of course
:18:43. > :18:47.they have developed a pleasure boat usage and other uses as time has
:18:48. > :18:50.progressed. One of the reasons for this Bill is the fact that some of
:18:51. > :18:56.the uses would not have been envisaged at the time in the 18th
:18:57. > :19:01.century -- 19th-century, motor boats did not exist at that time and the
:19:02. > :19:06.concept of denials was very different during that period. I want
:19:07. > :19:12.to make some progress just what a moment and then I will be happy to
:19:13. > :19:15.give way. As I was touching on, the regulation for these waterways is
:19:16. > :19:19.mainly laid out in the 17th century, these acts are now considerably out
:19:20. > :19:25.of date and do not align with our requirements by the statutory
:19:26. > :19:27.framework of the navigation authorities, in particularly current
:19:28. > :19:30.legal framework which governs the commissioners do not include
:19:31. > :19:33.adequate provision for the registration of vessels used in the
:19:34. > :19:36.waterways or the leading of charges for the use of the waterways and
:19:37. > :19:41.associated facilities. It may be thing with the promoters of this
:19:42. > :19:45.Bill, it was remarked how this might mean is exempted from pleasure craft
:19:46. > :19:49.and those transporting manure. As a result, the commission is currently
:19:50. > :19:53.do not receive any income from navigation of the waterways. This
:19:54. > :19:56.has meant that money made to drainage rate and levies have had to
:19:57. > :20:01.be used to find navigation rather than flood defences. In the
:20:02. > :20:11.financial year ending the 31st of March 2016, this amounted to
:20:12. > :20:14.?108,000. This was unfunded expenditure. The question is seeking
:20:15. > :20:19.to update and clarify their powers to enable them to properly regulate
:20:20. > :20:22.and find waterways. The powers are similar to those already used by
:20:23. > :20:25.other large inland navigation authorities, for example the canal
:20:26. > :20:31.and river trust, the Environment Agency and the boards authority.
:20:32. > :20:35.Future maintenance and management of the waterway will be funded in a
:20:36. > :20:40.similar way. Not based on one set of users, and those who benefit can be
:20:41. > :20:45.asked to contribute to it. In terms of why a Private Bill, the
:20:46. > :20:49.Commissioner originally proposed to update their legislation in 2000,
:20:50. > :20:55.using a transport and Works order, and approach the death rather do
:20:56. > :21:00.this. But they considered the charging schemes which would be
:21:01. > :21:05.outside the powers and the commission proposals did not proceed
:21:06. > :21:08.any further. Having consulted on updated proposals, the commissioners
:21:09. > :21:12.approach them again in 2016. Manitoba 2016I understand that
:21:13. > :21:17.apparat confronted position had not changed and that the WHO can not be
:21:18. > :21:21.used in this instance. Their reasoning was that it could not be
:21:22. > :21:26.used to impose charges on a navigation when the primary
:21:27. > :21:28.legislation governing it does not itself contain charging provisions,
:21:29. > :21:34.as is the case with the middle level navigation. It was therefore the
:21:35. > :21:38.commissioners pursued a Private Bill to update the powers. I'm sure
:21:39. > :21:43.members will agree to the right approach, and given that we can have
:21:44. > :21:48.this debate this evening on these important subjects. Whilst it is the
:21:49. > :21:52.first opportunity for a wider debate in the House on this matter, the
:21:53. > :21:55.proposals will not come as a surprise to those might be affected,
:21:56. > :22:09.as there has been a wider consultation already. He is making a
:22:10. > :22:15.very good speech. Can I just put it to him that at first sight this is
:22:16. > :22:18.an attempt to regularise vis-a-vis other navigation authorities
:22:19. > :22:23.legislation to the middle level, but what is missing on the face of the
:22:24. > :22:28.Bill, and it might be different from secondary legislation, is any
:22:29. > :22:31.commensurate commitment to update facility which is as similar to
:22:32. > :22:35.other navigational authorities, and that is the Achilles heel of this
:22:36. > :22:40.Bill, where it may need to be looked at again by this House or in the
:22:41. > :22:50.other place. I thank him for his intervention. I agree with him that
:22:51. > :22:53.there is clearly, nobly was be paying extra charges for the same
:22:54. > :22:57.facilities, but if we don't change the legal framework, then it is
:22:58. > :23:02.asking those using this for drainage to pay for facilities for those
:23:03. > :23:06.wishing use it for navigation. That means it is very unlikely those will
:23:07. > :23:12.ever be developed. It would need to go hand-in-hand. Our command to his
:23:13. > :23:23.response about the petitioners, of the viewers I've had come back for
:23:24. > :23:28.from them about this point. This will very briefly. And grateful to
:23:29. > :23:34.him. If you rightly say that this consultation to place at same time
:23:35. > :23:40.as the EU referendum, which we celebrate the outcome of today, and
:23:41. > :23:44.is it also right to say that the march cruising club, for example,
:23:45. > :23:48.which has headquarters almost opposite the offices for the
:23:49. > :23:54.commissioners, that that club was not consulted, and other petitioners
:23:55. > :23:58.were not consulted other? I thank him. I know she, like myself, would
:23:59. > :24:03.agree that most people are more than able to have two issues going at the
:24:04. > :24:06.same time. While the EU referendum was a very important referendum that
:24:07. > :24:10.many people in this House engaged in, I know he engaged passionately
:24:11. > :24:17.putting his side down, but whether other things other members have had
:24:18. > :24:22.different items on the agenda. Nobody would take part in this
:24:23. > :24:28.consultation... There have been petitioners deposited in relation to
:24:29. > :24:32.the Dell, and one thing if this gets to second reading is the petitioners
:24:33. > :24:36.would then be heard at a Private Bill committee, where we could
:24:37. > :24:40.scrutinise in more depth, so I would hope he receive this to give this
:24:41. > :24:44.Bill its second reading so those points can be made and we can look
:24:45. > :24:48.at how we can work constructively and appropriately to reframe this as
:24:49. > :24:52.a modern framework for regulation, rather than continuing with one that
:24:53. > :24:55.is mostly based on the needs of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, very
:24:56. > :25:18.briefly... She maybe keep... and bringing into life in ways, such
:25:19. > :25:24.as the canal and river trust. It is a question long overdue for an
:25:25. > :25:28.update. Thank you to the honourable member for his intervention. Rosie
:25:29. > :25:32.Zwingli, the exact point is made is that if the current system of
:25:33. > :25:39.regulation that, grow dates from another era, the health isn't the
:25:40. > :25:44.petition to refer other areas to the system. It is noticeable there is a
:25:45. > :25:48.demand for change. It might be helpful or members if I go through
:25:49. > :25:54.the consultation that took place between February and June 20 16. He
:25:55. > :25:58.has notified parties, land range interest, and local authorities,
:25:59. > :26:07.publishing news two newspaper notices on the website. We received
:26:08. > :26:13.18 responses, three neutral, and to oppose. The supporters included the
:26:14. > :26:17.Inland waterways Association, the East Anglian waterways Association,
:26:18. > :26:21.the National Association of boat owners, the middle level Watermans
:26:22. > :26:23.club, the residential boat owners Association, the Association of
:26:24. > :26:28.waterway cruising club and five local council. The honourable member
:26:29. > :26:34.who represents the nearby constituency, indicated this as
:26:35. > :26:37.well. I would say, mentioning the support, it is right to mention the
:26:38. > :26:43.concerns as well. Six petitions have been deposited against the Bill from
:26:44. > :26:46.individuals with varying degrees of interest in the waterways. The
:26:47. > :26:53.cruising club mentioned by the honourable mention,
:26:54. > :27:00.this has been raised in petitions and in response for the honourable
:27:01. > :27:04.member for question. If the Bill is given second reading, we will
:27:05. > :27:07.respond to them prior to the Bill committee stage. And both the
:27:08. > :27:10.commissioners and the petition will have the opportunity to give
:27:11. > :27:16.evidence directly supporting the case. This will determined the line
:27:17. > :27:20.by line detail of the Bill and also that the Bill has been proved. The
:27:21. > :27:23.Bill is a long, complex one, and I do not intend for the benefit of the
:27:24. > :27:28.members to go through every aspect of this Bill and every aspect of the
:27:29. > :27:33.petition race. There are two issues I should cover at the stage which
:27:34. > :27:37.may assist the House. The first is the issue in relation to houseboat
:27:38. > :27:41.owners. For some, the middle level is the home, not just a pleasure of
:27:42. > :27:45.watercourse. I recognise that one of the petitions is the national bard
:27:46. > :27:48.is travelling Association, I have raised this issue particular in
:27:49. > :27:52.relation to the Bill's power. I have been advised to say that the
:27:53. > :27:55.commissioners are a public authority bound by the Human Rights Act, to
:27:56. > :28:00.complying with the Convention rights. If removing a vessel, would
:28:01. > :28:06.challenge the article eight rights, for a wide, grow private family
:28:07. > :28:11.life, this would only be done if it is proportionate. It is more likely
:28:12. > :28:15.to be proportionate if a person fails to meet safety standards or
:28:16. > :28:24.its owner consistently refuses to get insurance. But not if there is a
:28:25. > :28:28.genuine breach of licence. The commission can throw this out in
:28:29. > :28:37.more detail, in registration bylaws, if this Bill was passed. And those
:28:38. > :28:41.bylaws would be subject to a ministerial investigation. We can
:28:42. > :28:46.discuss this more at committee stage. Those that make this place
:28:47. > :28:50.the home could also benefit from more securities and a more
:28:51. > :28:54.modernised system of regulation and legal framework around the middle
:28:55. > :28:57.level. The second point is the one the honourable member for
:28:58. > :29:02.Peterborough has mentioned, which is the idea of paying more but no
:29:03. > :29:07.facilities. An income tax on using this stretch of water. I accept, and
:29:08. > :29:12.I think the Bill's promoters do as well. This has to be a two-way
:29:13. > :29:16.street. The cannabis be more charges for those who navigate and a similar
:29:17. > :29:20.service at the end. There has to be a clear benefit. Having raised this
:29:21. > :29:22.with the Bill's promoters, they advised me that the commissioners
:29:23. > :29:25.recognise that navigator is being asked to pay charges will have to
:29:26. > :29:29.get something in return for their money. No two ways about that. They
:29:30. > :29:34.have agreed with the Inland waterways Association, East Anglia
:29:35. > :29:39.and waterways Association, and the National Association of boat owners
:29:40. > :29:45.to set up a if passed. This will discuss maintenance and improvements
:29:46. > :29:50.before charges are set. The precise arrangements have been agreed but
:29:51. > :29:54.the commission has certainly set up detail if that was helpful, and I
:29:55. > :29:58.hope that gives them reassurance to the House that again this is a
:29:59. > :30:02.matter we can explore in some depth at community stage. Although I would
:30:03. > :30:07.make a point that we are talking about the older acts up currently
:30:08. > :30:11.regulating it, we must look carefully how much we want to but on
:30:12. > :30:13.the face of a Bill that is how much consensus we have to allow
:30:14. > :30:19.flexibility from day-to-day management of the level. There is a
:30:20. > :30:22.lot of detail I could go into the in discussing this Bill. Particularly
:30:23. > :30:26.relating to the patchwork of rather elderly acts that regulate that
:30:27. > :30:30.waterway. And allowed timing for debate, I will not go through them
:30:31. > :30:34.all. But I will respond to points in this debate am I look forward to the
:30:35. > :30:40.Minister's comments as well. I knew for a second reading to make the
:30:41. > :30:47.case and so the middle level can have an modern, up-to-date system of
:30:48. > :30:55.regulation that it deserves. The Bill be now read a second time. I am
:30:56. > :30:59.pleased arise to speak to the private Bill on behalf of the
:31:00. > :31:03.official opposition. Can I thank the honourable member for Torbay, for
:31:04. > :31:09.giving such a thorough covering of the background of the issue as
:31:10. > :31:12.needed. I'd like to emphasise a few points because I think it's
:31:13. > :31:19.important the House as a clear understanding about the proposals
:31:20. > :31:22.and why this is needed. The Bill updates and amends the powers of
:31:23. > :31:27.middle level commissioners. It brings the middle level into light
:31:28. > :31:30.with powers granted to the Environment Agency, the canal and
:31:31. > :31:35.River trust and the Norfolk Broads authority. We have heard that the
:31:36. > :31:39.existing legislation dates from the 18th and 19th centuries, primarily
:31:40. > :31:45.the middle level act of 1862. So it is remarkably out of date. The
:31:46. > :31:50.middle level commissioners provide flood defence and water management
:31:51. > :31:54.to the middle level area, and they are the navigational authority for
:31:55. > :31:59.the middle level river system. The middle level is the largest of the
:32:00. > :32:03.great level of defence. It was proclaimed by drainage of the land
:32:04. > :32:07.back in the 17th century. It currently consists of over 120 miles
:32:08. > :32:13.of water courses, with 100 of these being set free. But in the
:32:14. > :32:17.operations of the commissioners and the local drainage boards, much of
:32:18. > :32:23.this land would be underwater. As much of it is below sea level. This
:32:24. > :32:28.would have a devastating impact on the hundred thousand people who live
:32:29. > :32:33.and work in this area. The commissioners have consulted widely
:32:34. > :32:38.and family with interested parties, and the substantial majority were in
:32:39. > :32:41.favour of the proposed changes. So in a nutshell, the Bill would allow
:32:42. > :32:46.the middle level commissioners to charge vessels to use the waterways,
:32:47. > :32:52.to fine people staying longer then allowed on moorings, to check they
:32:53. > :32:55.have valid insurance, to remove sunken or abandoned vessels,
:32:56. > :33:01.temporarily close sections waterways for work or events, and enter it
:33:02. > :33:05.into arrangements with other navigation authorities of the mutual
:33:06. > :33:11.recognition of red Cliff, the registration and license. Chris
:33:12. > :33:16.Howells, who is a local boat enthusiast, told the local newspaper
:33:17. > :33:20.in 2016 that he agreed with the commission's plan. He cited the
:33:21. > :33:25.apparently abandoned boat rotting away on the old. These could be get
:33:26. > :33:29.rid off under the new powers. He said that the proposals are
:33:30. > :33:32.potentially so exciting and so beneficial, that it is hugely
:33:33. > :33:39.important that they come to fruition. So if we want this to
:33:40. > :33:43.aspire to be a tourist destination my column, generating income to
:33:44. > :33:49.invest in our currently largely successful waterways is a necessary
:33:50. > :33:52.stage. The chief Executive of the middle level commissioner, said it
:33:53. > :33:55.is important that we update the laws, to enable us to have better
:33:56. > :34:02.control of the waterways that we oversee. Additional income for the
:34:03. > :34:06.commissioners could make a real difference to the waterways. I
:34:07. > :34:11.personally know the area well, having living, lived there for a
:34:12. > :34:18.number of years. I would support efforts to boost a local economy.
:34:19. > :34:21.This brings the middle level into the 21st century in line with other
:34:22. > :34:41.navigation authorities, and we would support it. Minister Theresa Coffey.
:34:42. > :34:47.I am delighted to see my honourable member for North West Norfolk, as it
:34:48. > :34:54.is his birthday today. It shows how dedicated he is for the -- about his
:34:55. > :35:02.constituency duty. That is covered by the middle level can stitch,
:35:03. > :35:07.growth legislation, that includes my honourable friend for Southeast
:35:08. > :35:10.Norfolk and Northeast Cambridge. Being members of the government,
:35:11. > :35:16.they cannot speak directly to this Bill. Thank you for the kind
:35:17. > :35:21.remarks. Shall be aware of two things. First, quite a lot of the
:35:22. > :35:27.navigation traffic of boats and other crafts start in King's Lynn or
:35:28. > :35:34.in my constituency, they go upstream into waterways. Another point I'm
:35:35. > :35:38.sure she'll come onto, she and I share a passion for flood defences.
:35:39. > :35:42.The extra money will be used to secure some of these waterways to
:35:43. > :35:45.prevent flooding. But obviously would be devastating for all of us
:35:46. > :35:51.around the farm areas and many people who make their living in this
:35:52. > :35:54.particular area. As my honourable friend has pointed out, his
:35:55. > :35:59.constituency is ensuring that people who start the journey in his
:36:00. > :36:02.constituency are well served. I recognise what he says about the
:36:03. > :36:06.ability of waterways to help with flooding. The main purpose of the
:36:07. > :36:09.middle Level Bill is to amend and update the powers of the middle
:36:10. > :36:13.level commissioners to regulate the middle level in the city of
:36:14. > :36:16.Peterborough, and the counters of Cambridge and Norfolk. The
:36:17. > :36:20.commissioners being the navigational authorities of the waterways have
:36:21. > :36:25.these powers to arrange local Acts passed between 1663 and 1874. They
:36:26. > :36:31.are the fourth largest in the navigation authority in the country,
:36:32. > :36:34.by length and narrow waterway. They have previously lobbied my
:36:35. > :36:38.department, as my honourable friend laid out, as we the lead policy
:36:39. > :36:41.Department for navigation in land matters in this country. They wanted
:36:42. > :36:48.to take forward legislation in powers. Given the constraint on
:36:49. > :36:52.topic time, and the local focus, it was on our advice of the commission
:36:53. > :36:58.support for this private Bill and I welcome the work in bringing this
:36:59. > :37:02.board. With regards to government scrutiny of the Bill, as the
:37:03. > :37:06.Minister responsible, I want to be satisfied that the proposed
:37:07. > :37:12.legislation of this Bill is fit for purpose. I believe that it is as the
:37:13. > :37:15.existing leading framework that governments the function, is now
:37:16. > :37:19.considerably dated. Not only do some of the current laws that the
:37:20. > :37:25.Minister is working to remove, they do not allow for modern
:37:26. > :37:31.requirements. They do not align with statutory framework, including in
:37:32. > :37:35.particular the commissioners neighbouring navigational authority,
:37:36. > :37:41.which is responsible for navigation on the river. This Bill will update
:37:42. > :37:45.this legislation. Unlike many other navigation authorities such as the
:37:46. > :37:48.Environment Agency, which I have this version, the commissioners do
:37:49. > :37:52.not have charging powers to licensed boats with user navigation. This
:37:53. > :37:56.Bill will allow that to happen, and give them powers to introduce a
:37:57. > :37:58.registration scheme for vessels using waterways. It will give
:37:59. > :38:04.commission similar powers already exercise for other authorities such
:38:05. > :38:09.as the canals agency and the boards authority in respect of the
:38:10. > :38:13.navigation. The Bill will, importantly, not all to the
:38:14. > :38:17.commission's existing duty to maintain the navigation is, nor
:38:18. > :38:20.affect the public's right of navigation on the waterway. As a
:38:21. > :38:32.consequence, Madam Deputy Speaker, the government will be content for
:38:33. > :38:37.this Bill to make progress. I begin my speech by remarking about the
:38:38. > :38:42.fact that all politics is local, we are discussing the Middle Level Bill
:38:43. > :38:47.and earlier today, we were talking about major geopolitical issues
:38:48. > :38:54.including the voting of article 50. Such is the cornucopia of delight in
:38:55. > :38:59.the House of Commons. I believe that this Bill should not be the subject
:39:00. > :39:06.of a division. I think it is important we have a full and
:39:07. > :39:11.combines of debate today, but as it proceeds to build committee, so that
:39:12. > :39:14.as my honourable friend the Member for Torbay, who so eloquently
:39:15. > :39:22.introduced the Bill as a sponsor said, it can be looked at in much
:39:23. > :39:26.more detail. As we go on. I am a local member of Parliament but as my
:39:27. > :39:30.honourable friend the Minister is dead, it has not been possible for
:39:31. > :39:34.both ministers directly affected, but principally, my neighbour the
:39:35. > :39:38.honourable gentleman for North East amateur, to take part in this
:39:39. > :39:43.debate, as he is a government whip. But as members will know, the
:39:44. > :39:51.waterways on which we are discussing, and of debate, do meet
:39:52. > :39:56.at the city of Peterborough. So I have a connection and interest in
:39:57. > :40:01.the substance of this debate. I might make the point that in
:40:02. > :40:05.Cambridge, it is the revenue, if Northampton, quote Northamptonshire
:40:06. > :40:10.it is the river Nairn for some bizarre reason. May I pay tribute to
:40:11. > :40:13.one of the petitioners, my constituent Chris Taylor, of new
:40:14. > :40:22.Brewer, who has been indefatigable in raising this issue and to
:40:23. > :40:33.My concern and his is that I believe that the petitioning period was
:40:34. > :40:39.insufficient, there has not been a proper debate on this matter, and I
:40:40. > :40:44.do think principally that there hasn't been a costly therefore
:40:45. > :40:51.analysis, and the reason I put that point of view forward is that, as I
:40:52. > :40:54.said to him, we're not looking at a navigation authority which is
:40:55. > :41:01.analogous to others, such as the Port authority known across the
:41:02. > :41:05.country, which do provide better facilities, in fact provide any
:41:06. > :41:13.facilities. Therefore, to give on the face of the Bill legislative
:41:14. > :41:18.power to impose charges without upgrading those facilities would be
:41:19. > :41:23.draconian and a retrograde step, and that is essentially why I think we
:41:24. > :41:31.need to debate this matter further in committee. I understand the
:41:32. > :41:36.imperative legally to regularise the legal basis for the navigational
:41:37. > :41:39.authorities duties and responsibilities, with the proviso
:41:40. > :41:45.of course that the Government doesn't get involved in the detailed
:41:46. > :41:54.operational matters of the authority. But it does oversee their
:41:55. > :42:02.statutory duties, and I understand that they broadly supported the need
:42:03. > :42:09.to update and amend on the basis that they put in the documentation.
:42:10. > :42:15.Because it is, as the minister said, very aged legislation, it is not
:42:16. > :42:22.just 17th-century legislation, that the minister said, the middle level
:42:23. > :42:29.act of 1810 to 1874, the act of 1753, the land drainage act of 1991,
:42:30. > :42:34.and the flood of the management act of 2000 -- 2010, because what we're
:42:35. > :42:44.talking about is not a traditional canal or river, we're talking about
:42:45. > :42:49.interconnected open drains, which were used and drained in the 17th
:42:50. > :42:53.century in order to release land for agriculture and other uses. Because
:42:54. > :42:58.it is below sea level, until that period it was effectively an inland
:42:59. > :43:04.sea. The town of Whittlesea, the clue is in the name, it was pretty
:43:05. > :43:09.wet and it was not used greatly, although I would say of course as a
:43:10. > :43:15.local MP that it has some of the finest Agut cultural land in Britain
:43:16. > :43:18.if not Europe, because that is incredibly well irrigated. --
:43:19. > :43:23.agricultural. We have to look at the fact that this navigation authority
:43:24. > :43:28.is difference of Stansted from those more traditional navigational
:43:29. > :43:36.authorities. The key issue which has caused concern is not just the very
:43:37. > :43:40.basic issue of charges, as covered in part two, clause three and
:43:41. > :43:45.potentially clause nine under the bylaws of this Bill. But the fact
:43:46. > :43:49.that it is a contention of the petitioners, and I accept that they
:43:50. > :43:54.are in the minority, but it is a contention that those, not quite
:43:55. > :43:58.ancient rights, but well-established historical rights bestowed upon them
:43:59. > :44:02.in the latter part of the 17th century by the Duke of Bedford a
:44:03. > :44:07.major landowner, to the east of Peterborough and in the fence as a
:44:08. > :44:12.whole, that Rose are being curtailed and reduced, so that the rights of
:44:13. > :44:18.navigation. They make a contention in their petition and further papers
:44:19. > :44:24.that those rates go back much further, beyond the Magna Carter and
:44:25. > :44:30.1215, even to the fourth century. That is a major issue. If I could
:44:31. > :44:37.put more detail on the complaint they have. Bearing in mind, this is
:44:38. > :44:43.about charges on pleasure boats. The 600 pleasure those that use this
:44:44. > :44:49.hundred miles of waterway every year, it is not about commercial
:44:50. > :44:52.activity. I accept that in these economic times it is one has to look
:44:53. > :44:57.where one can have a public authority in order to secure extra
:44:58. > :45:00.funding. It cannot just come from landowners and farmers and the
:45:01. > :45:05.taxpayer, they have to look at other ways. I do not have an ideological
:45:06. > :45:12.aversion to further tools and charges, but I do have an aversion
:45:13. > :45:17.to any unfairness to people who are existing users of the facilities. At
:45:18. > :45:23.the moment, there are no services on this waterway. There are no
:45:24. > :45:29.motorboats. There are no mood rings or toilets showers are collection
:45:30. > :45:32.points for rubbish. More importantly, notwithstanding the
:45:33. > :45:35.fact that secondary legislation might ameliorate the issue, at the
:45:36. > :45:41.moment they are not on the face of the Bill and are not promised. I
:45:42. > :45:44.think that is and ported point made in the documentation by the
:45:45. > :45:49.residential boat owners Association, and the National Bard Travelers
:45:50. > :45:54.Association. I think there is an important issue to raise correctly,
:45:55. > :45:58.by my honourable friend, that there is an issue of human rights
:45:59. > :46:02.legislation because if under article eight you are curtailing the right
:46:03. > :46:07.to a family life by removing a passage those people to enjoy what
:46:08. > :46:11.is their home, a barge for instance, or a pleasure cruiser, then that is
:46:12. > :46:23.a wider legal issue, and I'm sure that may be explored further in
:46:24. > :46:29.committee. Thank you for giving way. Would you not accept though it is
:46:30. > :46:32.not a question of using levies for fees provide services, but also
:46:33. > :46:37.there is an essential maintenance that is needed, because these are
:46:38. > :46:41.maintained and in the worst case scenario you can have the banks
:46:42. > :46:47.giving way, because after all as he rightly points out, this was an
:46:48. > :46:52.error that was drained in the 16th century. -- area. It is eight
:46:53. > :47:01.question of maintaining the fabric of these waterways. May act actually
:47:02. > :47:07.congratulations of the House for his birthday. He is pretty ageless.
:47:08. > :47:15.Felicitations to my honourable friend. He is right, the flood
:47:16. > :47:24.prevention, flood ameliorate and is massively important, we agree. I
:47:25. > :47:31.will give way. Coming as I do from Somerset, I am not familiar with the
:47:32. > :47:36.exact area, but example is just the same, surely any income that can be
:47:37. > :47:40.raised from navigation of the waterways would be welcomed, because
:47:41. > :47:48.currently, as I understand it, money for the drainage levies that ought
:47:49. > :47:53.to be going to vital prevention work to protect your precious farmland is
:47:54. > :47:57.indeed being diverted to navigation work? This legislation is just
:47:58. > :48:04.tightening that up, to correct this injustice. I am mindful of time and
:48:05. > :48:11.other members wish to contribute, so I will wrap up, because the whip is
:48:12. > :48:19.giving the the evil eye. And only her most endearing way. I don't
:48:20. > :48:26.think... I defer to the knowledge of my honourable friend, and I know
:48:27. > :48:32.that in Somerset they suffered the most appalling drama of widescale
:48:33. > :48:37.flooding five years ago or thereabouts, and I don't think it is
:48:38. > :48:43.mutually exclusive four hours to be removing sunken boats, dredging and
:48:44. > :48:47.do a important in infrastructure work there needs to be done, but I
:48:48. > :48:51.think it needs to be done on a more systematic way, I am unconvinced as
:48:52. > :48:57.to whether this Private Bill, which seeks to be quite innocuous, but is
:48:58. > :49:01.potentially quite Kone invited imposes on people whose rights have
:49:02. > :49:08.been established for many hundreds of years, I'm not convinced. I will
:49:09. > :49:11.conclude by saying, Madam Deputy Speaker and has been a pleasure to
:49:12. > :49:16.have had the opportunity to represent Mr Taylor and some of the
:49:17. > :49:19.other people, if we are not here to represent unfashionable views of our
:49:20. > :49:26.constituents then we are wasting our time. But I hope will happen is that
:49:27. > :49:31.in the course of the debate, about this Bill, that both the petitioners
:49:32. > :49:36.and others with a key interest in the middle level will have an
:49:37. > :49:39.opportunity to have a cordial and productive meeting with the middle
:49:40. > :49:44.level Commissioners, and when it goes to committee, they will take on
:49:45. > :49:49.board some of those comments and the Bill will be improved so that we can
:49:50. > :49:53.regularise the legislative necessity for this Bill, but at the same time
:49:54. > :49:58.keep faith in those people who are the lifeblood of this area, the
:49:59. > :50:03.pleasure boat users, because we need to look after their interests. I
:50:04. > :50:11.hope we will find a mutually beneficial compromise in the near
:50:12. > :50:16.future. Thank you madam that the Speaker, I am Michael of the hour,
:50:17. > :50:22.so I'll keep my contribution brief. As a member of the APPG on
:50:23. > :50:25.waterways, and as a narrow boat enthusiast -- narrow boat
:50:26. > :50:30.enthusiasts. I support this Private Bill today. I would like to take if
:50:31. > :50:36.you manage to explain why. Across the country, we have benefited and
:50:37. > :50:41.continue to benefit from an incredible network of over 2000
:50:42. > :50:46.miles of canals, waterways and other navigations. In my own constituency,
:50:47. > :50:52.we have the Essington and were later now, a canal that we have taken our
:50:53. > :50:58.own boat on. I've never been on the middle levels yet. Once the means
:50:59. > :51:02.for transporting goods in and out and across the West Midlands, today
:51:03. > :51:07.it is very much a place for walking and for leisure. The work of the
:51:08. > :51:10.canal and the river trust, the aid in what ways Association and others
:51:11. > :51:16.including many local organisations, charities and voluntary groups, we
:51:17. > :51:20.have seen a remarkable revival in our waterways in recent years, and
:51:21. > :51:27.we are seeing them being put under more sustainable footing. But
:51:28. > :51:31.turning to this Private Bill, the middle level Bill, it relates
:51:32. > :51:35.specifically, as we've heard, to the central and larger section of the
:51:36. > :51:39.great level of the fence, an area we claim by that I can be claimed by an
:51:40. > :51:44.drainage in the mid-17th century, and there are members him a far more
:51:45. > :51:49.local knowledge than I would ever declare having, but it covers 120
:51:50. > :51:53.miles of watercourses, 100 of which are statutory navigation. The Bill
:51:54. > :51:59.in front of us today seeks to modernise the Commissioner 's
:52:00. > :52:04.operations and powers, in particular allows them to levy charges and uses
:52:05. > :52:10.of the waterways to pay for the navigation functions. I will very
:52:11. > :52:13.briefly give way. One of the issues that has been in the press can last
:52:14. > :52:18.few days is the amount of litter that has been deposited across the
:52:19. > :52:23.countryside, and some of it has been deposited in what awaits. Does she
:52:24. > :52:26.feel that the charges would enable that letter to be taken away and
:52:27. > :52:29.disposed of in a place that it should've been? If that is part of
:52:30. > :52:33.the purpose, then it's got to be a step in the right direction. I'm
:52:34. > :52:39.grateful to him for his intervention. What I notice when I'm
:52:40. > :52:44.out on the waterways is that there are stretches where we do see a lot
:52:45. > :52:48.of litter and often baby, but every user of our canals, be they on the
:52:49. > :52:52.water or icy walking, has a responsibility and duty to play
:52:53. > :53:01.their own part in collecting that letter as well as it being a
:53:02. > :53:04.provision. Referring back to the Bill, what is particularly
:53:05. > :53:11.interesting is that Commissioners currently have no navigation income,
:53:12. > :53:17.and any navigation works must be subsidised by those who pay a
:53:18. > :53:25.drainage level -- levy, in fact the largest navigation authority in the
:53:26. > :53:29.country without a navigation income. I'm also that fact and almost about
:53:30. > :53:35.to conclude. I will just continue. I am mindful of time. This Bill to
:53:36. > :53:39.conclude, in my view, is needed because it will aid in the middle
:53:40. > :53:42.level Commissioners to become, and this is crucial, a sustainable
:53:43. > :53:47.navigation authority with the proper powers to manage a 21st-century
:53:48. > :53:54.navigation, which I think is in the interests of those who use it and
:53:55. > :54:01.those in the local area as well. May I begin by saying that this debate
:54:02. > :54:04.would not have taken place if I had it as he blocked this Bill going
:54:05. > :54:10.through on the second reading. We have already heard the benefits of
:54:11. > :54:19.having a proper second reading debate on a Private Bill. Can I also
:54:20. > :54:24.say that I think having spoken to some of the petitioners on the
:54:25. > :54:28.telephone, that the promoters of this Bill have a serious
:54:29. > :54:34.responsibility to actually engage with those people who take a
:54:35. > :54:39.different view or have concerns about the contents of this Bill. I
:54:40. > :54:45.was told by one of the petitioners that there had to be no contact
:54:46. > :54:51.whatsoever with the authorities on this, and it is easy to see were,
:54:52. > :54:56.when we get to this going to and proposed Bill committee, and I got
:54:57. > :54:59.no objection to this having a second reading, I think it is important
:55:00. > :55:07.that when it goes to the opposed Bill committee, that is after they
:55:08. > :55:11.had been an exhaustive discussion between petitioners and the
:55:12. > :55:15.promoters, rather than that being used as the forum for that
:55:16. > :55:19.discussion, because the Private Bill procedure in committee is an
:55:20. > :55:23.expensive and potentially adversarial one, and I would have
:55:24. > :55:24.wished that they would be more discussion between the promoters and
:55:25. > :55:33.the objectors. In my own speech, he gave the
:55:34. > :55:39.example of the march cruising club, I am but, group advised they are
:55:40. > :55:48.written and telephoned, but no reply was received. I would agree that
:55:49. > :55:54.there needs to be further engagement and the formal session of the
:55:55. > :56:00.committee. I'm glad he agrees. With the need for informal engagement
:56:01. > :56:06.before it gets to the proposed Bill committee, because some of these
:56:07. > :56:11.petitioners are not well funded but if there is a long period in private
:56:12. > :56:18.Bill committee where they have to be represented by counsel, the costs
:56:19. > :56:26.will be disproportionately high. The other point I'd make at this stage
:56:27. > :56:33.is that there's recently been a very illuminating report from the
:56:34. > :56:38.National Audit Office, published on 21st March, on internal drainage
:56:39. > :56:43.boards. Basically, what we are talking about today is a whole
:56:44. > :56:47.connection of drain. We are not talking the canals, we are talking
:56:48. > :56:55.about drains. In that portable from the National Audit Office, -- report
:56:56. > :56:59.from the National Audit Office, there is need for proper oversight
:57:00. > :57:05.and assurance that these internal debt drainage boards are not going
:57:06. > :57:09.to engage in conflicts of interest. Then I noticed that within the
:57:10. > :57:15.middle level, there are 33 independent internal drainage
:57:16. > :57:23.districts. And each is responsible for the local drainage of the area.
:57:24. > :57:28.When we thought about giving more powers to the middle level
:57:29. > :57:33.commissioners, I think we need to be very circumspect about what checks
:57:34. > :57:38.and balances that are in relation to the exercise of those powers. I hope
:57:39. > :57:43.that that is something that the committee will be able to
:57:44. > :57:49.investigate when it meets to consider these proposals. And the
:57:50. > :57:58.petition against them. I'm going to refer briefly to some of these
:57:59. > :58:02.positions. One is from a man called Nigel Moore who calls himself a boat
:58:03. > :58:08.owner and boat manager on various navigation, he's an adviser on
:58:09. > :58:14.nationwide legal issues about boating, and a late advocate for
:58:15. > :58:19.vote in High Court action, where issues rise over the allocation of
:58:20. > :58:26.similar causes. He objects to be built because it entails a clear
:58:27. > :58:31.abolition of private and public right to no justifiable purpose, and
:58:32. > :58:39.will lead to unnecessary future litigation over the ambiguities. And
:58:40. > :58:42.he refers, like other petitioners, to interpretation of the wide
:58:43. > :58:47.interpretation of the expression waterways, which is being sought to
:58:48. > :58:52.be included in the Bill, and if one looks at schedule one of the Bill,
:58:53. > :58:58.one can see the waterways will extend to a lot of areas which are
:58:59. > :59:03.not even navigable, and would also extend the commission's powers to
:59:04. > :59:05.adjacent waters including private waters, which are not currently
:59:06. > :59:14.within the commission's jurisdiction. This apparently, Mr
:59:15. > :59:25.Moore says, has been a contentious point in relation to legislation. He
:59:26. > :59:29.mentions rights being taken away, surely we are talking about some
:59:30. > :59:35.responsibilities. A few extra charges, but what right did he have
:59:36. > :59:40.in mind that will be removed. At the moment, people for example, who are
:59:41. > :59:47.the owners of private waters, which are not subject to the middle level
:59:48. > :59:53.commissioners, they will be as a result of this act, incorporated
:59:54. > :59:56.within the responsibilities of the middle level commissioners, and the
:59:57. > :00:02.middle level commissioners will be able to use the regulatory powers in
:00:03. > :00:09.relation to what is currently private waters. That seems to me to
:00:10. > :00:15.be an extension well beyond the Cole what one might have thought of as
:00:16. > :00:19.the scope of this Bill. As my noble friend knows, as soon as people get
:00:20. > :00:24.chance to legislate, they want to take more powers. Then they strictly
:00:25. > :00:29.need. That is one of the concerns of the petition. I give way. Does he
:00:30. > :00:34.agrees with me that there is a level of confusion as to the duties and
:00:35. > :00:38.responsibilities of the authority, as enunciated in the Bill, as
:00:39. > :00:41.between navigation and dredging? That needs to be clarified when the
:00:42. > :00:47.Bill proceeds to committee, potentially. That again is a good
:00:48. > :00:56.point. It is raised by several of the petition. Can take other
:00:57. > :01:03.concerns expressed by Mr Moore, is that he objects to clause 83 -- 8.3,
:01:04. > :01:10.because the wording of the clause follows the contentious wording of
:01:11. > :01:14.the waterways that section eight, which has years of litigation to its
:01:15. > :01:19.effects, and he would prefer a wording of similar clause of the
:01:20. > :01:25.biomed agency inland waterways set 2012 section 16 because that allows
:01:26. > :01:30.for no ambiguity and unwarranted extension of powers. He says the
:01:31. > :01:34.wording, without lawful authority, import 8.3, is in applicable to
:01:35. > :01:39.refer to boat on public navigable waters, won the right to the
:01:40. > :01:43.waterways derived from the public right and the proposed provisions
:01:44. > :01:47.for registration of boat does not change that. He says that that is
:01:48. > :01:50.actually in line with the Environment Agency's submissions,
:01:51. > :01:54.and the recent case on the Thames which he thinks was correct. As
:01:55. > :01:58.worded, the proposed clause would not only be against the express
:01:59. > :02:03.policy of the Environment Agency, but in his view it will be
:02:04. > :02:10.ineffectual in law. Contrary to the exportation of the commissioners,
:02:11. > :02:18.and in prejudice to voters. I hope those issues raised by Mr Moore,
:02:19. > :02:23.will be. There is a petition from the March cruising club, which is
:02:24. > :02:29.submitted by Mr Harwood, the club harbour master, apart from
:02:30. > :02:41.complaining about the inadequate consultation, he raises a number of
:02:42. > :02:45.issues. Following on, the history that has been given by a number in
:02:46. > :02:53.this debate, he says that pleasure boats have had three, grow free
:02:54. > :03:00.navigation to the old River. Which forms a large section of the river
:03:01. > :03:05.level, from before 1215, protected by Magna Carta and subsequent
:03:06. > :03:08.statutes and Royal commission. There are even Roman transcripts
:03:09. > :03:14.describing navigation along the old River as early as the fourth century
:03:15. > :03:18.during the Roman occupation. The river is natural and the public
:03:19. > :03:22.right of navigation has existed since time immemorial, and was first
:03:23. > :03:32.clarified in the Magna Carta of 1215. I'm not sure if he's aware of
:03:33. > :03:37.the preamble of the navigation act 1753 which describes the ancient
:03:38. > :03:39.navigation as being at all times extremely tedious, difficult and
:03:40. > :03:45.dangerous, and very frequently altogether impracticable. My
:03:46. > :03:49.honourable friend, I don't care what the pointers. He refers to a
:03:50. > :03:56.preamble to a piece of legislation which of course is not an act of
:03:57. > :04:03.Parliament. I'm not sure it really undermines any thing that I put.
:04:04. > :04:09.Inciting what has been submitted by the March cruising club. I'm sure
:04:10. > :04:15.that when the promoters engage properly with the March cruising
:04:16. > :04:20.club, there will be able to explore the issue further. One of the other
:04:21. > :04:23.points made by the cruising club, and contradicts an number of
:04:24. > :04:26.assertions that have already been made in this debate, is that the
:04:27. > :04:30.commissioners already have the power to charge boats for the use of the
:04:31. > :04:38.waterways. What they don't have is the power to charge pleasure boats.
:04:39. > :04:41.If a shortfall, as has been alleged, of 178,000 unfunded expenditure,
:04:42. > :04:47.then there is nothing to stop the Commissioner starting to charge
:04:48. > :04:55.vessels which are not pleasure boats or charging for other activities.
:04:56. > :04:59.That would be consistent with the historical rights of pleasure boat
:05:00. > :05:13.owners to use this navigation without charge. He goes on to say,
:05:14. > :05:19.basically, that this is a network of navigable terrains. It is therefore
:05:20. > :05:24.in a different category from some of the other comparators that have been
:05:25. > :05:35.cited in support by the promoters of this Bill. They make a number of
:05:36. > :05:40.other points in the submission. One of them is echoed by my honourable
:05:41. > :05:49.friend, the Peterborough. Boat the Bill contains no obligations under
:05:50. > :05:51.which the would-be duty-bound to provide water for dredging,
:05:52. > :06:01.maintenance, or any facilities to vote, boaters. The legislation would
:06:02. > :06:10.force the EU to register annual licensees, being a criminal offence
:06:11. > :06:19.to... Must display a registration number, repeal a licence, so there
:06:20. > :06:23.will be no advantage from boaters at in return and ultimately this will
:06:24. > :06:27.destroy the middle level navigation as far as the boating community is
:06:28. > :06:34.concerned. They have a number of other detailed points but I won't
:06:35. > :06:42.fight them all, Madam Deputy Speaker. But unless these issues are
:06:43. > :06:48.resolved amicably, between the commissioners and the promoters,
:06:49. > :06:56.then this Bill is going to have a pretty slow passage through this
:06:57. > :07:03.House. I'm sure that members of this House will not wish to impinge upon
:07:04. > :07:10.the rights of individuals which are being enjoyed for many years. Unless
:07:11. > :07:14.those are very strong -- there is a very strong justification for
:07:15. > :07:18.impinging those rights. Another petition comes Mr John Hodges, who
:07:19. > :07:23.describes himself as a member of the public, a homeowner with a mooring
:07:24. > :07:32.on the banks of the middle level, and he says that the proposals will
:07:33. > :07:37.directly and specially affect his rights and that's an indication of
:07:38. > :07:46.another category of objector. There is also a petition against this from
:07:47. > :07:52.somebody called Derek Pace. Mr Pace describes himself as living on a
:07:53. > :07:57.narrow boat, which since it is not a commercial boat, most fits the
:07:58. > :08:02.description of pleasure boat in the 1684 act. On the middle level. This
:08:03. > :08:08.has been his home since 2011. He says it was only available and
:08:09. > :08:13.affordable because after he watched lost his home of eight years when
:08:14. > :08:17.his father died. He alleges the proposals will affect his rights and
:08:18. > :08:21.interests, including allowing the commission of new powers to seize
:08:22. > :08:25.his home and sell it on the less than it is valued. Effectively make
:08:26. > :08:31.him homeless, destitute as an additional cost to the state. He
:08:32. > :08:37.says the Bill contains no protection for the home, grow hundreds of
:08:38. > :08:47.people who live on boats like him. That was the theme picked up by
:08:48. > :08:58.Pamela Smith's cup from -- from the bhajis. They have have done boats
:08:59. > :09:03.for many years. They don't have moorings but feel threatened by what
:09:04. > :09:10.is the pros. She estimated that there may be as many as between
:09:11. > :09:15.10000 and 25,000 people, not just in this area, but throughout the United
:09:16. > :09:25.Kingdom, who are living on boats but not at a fixed mooring. This is a
:09:26. > :09:31.sort of different sort of itinerant beauty, and Mrs Pamela Smith feels
:09:32. > :09:35.the this particular group of people are going to be very much
:09:36. > :09:46.discriminated against by what is proposed in March of this private
:09:47. > :09:55.Bill. Those concerns are echoed by other petitioners. Another point
:09:56. > :10:01.picked up here, Madam Deputy Speaker, is clause nine refers to
:10:02. > :10:06.giving the commissioners more bylaws, but they already have
:10:07. > :10:14.adequate by lawmaking powers under the middle level act of 1870,
:10:15. > :10:20.Under clause nine examining two the get people's homes, which be
:10:21. > :10:27.unnecessary invasion of personal space. They are statutory bodies,
:10:28. > :10:30.including the police, and the 30 two into peoples homes, requiring voters
:10:31. > :10:36.to surrender their right to privacy as a condition of being granted a
:10:37. > :10:42.licence navigate, is an reasonable and intrusive. You can see, Madam
:10:43. > :10:49.Deputy Speaker, that there are quite significant attempts in this Bill
:10:50. > :10:56.imposed upon the rights of individuals, and I noticed when the
:10:57. > :11:02.minister gave her certification in relation to whether or not this Bill
:11:03. > :11:07.was compliant with the European Convention of human rights, that you
:11:08. > :11:11.said was, she had no reason to suppose that the assertions made by
:11:12. > :11:16.the promoters were incorrect. I'm not sure from that be can be
:11:17. > :11:24.satisfied that the Government has yet explored these issues relating
:11:25. > :11:28.to human rights for its own purposes, and to ensure that
:11:29. > :11:32.actually the Government can assure as that, in the Government's own
:11:33. > :11:37.view, not just relying on the promoters, that this Bill is fully
:11:38. > :11:45.compliant with the law on human rights. Madam Deputy is bigger, my
:11:46. > :11:49.honourable friend for Peterborough has already referred to the petition
:11:50. > :11:58.from Christopher Taylor, his constituent. I would refer to that
:11:59. > :12:02.again. I have already referred briefly to what Pamela Smith has
:12:03. > :12:12.said on behalf of the National by the travellers association. But that
:12:13. > :12:18.organisation has put in a major objection to much of what is
:12:19. > :12:27.contained within this Bill. It has over 700 members, for local groups,
:12:28. > :12:31.and represents the interests of the estimated 15,000 to 30,000 bhaji
:12:32. > :12:36.travellers in the United Kingdom. A significant number of the
:12:37. > :12:41.disassociation either live permanently on the middle levels or
:12:42. > :12:45.use the waterways regularly, and therefore it is a matter of great
:12:46. > :12:51.regret that there hasn't been any proper discussion with the
:12:52. > :12:59.travellers on the very important issues which are contained within
:13:00. > :13:10.this Bill, and I hope that that will be remedied much sooner rather than
:13:11. > :13:15.later. They say also that many bhaji travellers use the middle levels as
:13:16. > :13:19.a channel between the east Anglian waterways and the rest of the inland
:13:20. > :13:25.waterways, and there is no other inland waterway route, and it would
:13:26. > :13:33.be no choice but to be bound by the imposed terms and conditions and to
:13:34. > :13:41.pay the proposed charges. Mr Deputy Speaker, I am not very familiar with
:13:42. > :13:48.this part of the friends, and I'm not particularly, apart from having
:13:49. > :13:55.visited other people who have got narrow boats, I am not familiar with
:13:56. > :14:00.that type of recreational use of boozing. But I am familiar with the
:14:01. > :14:06.sort of recreational use of browsing in my constituency in Christchurch,
:14:07. > :14:12.and all I can say is that if my constituents when faced with some of
:14:13. > :14:20.the new proposed regulations and powers to invade their privacy to --
:14:21. > :14:29.proposed in the middle level of the fans, then they would be outraged in
:14:30. > :14:32.deed. And we have more on the river in Christchurch, a large number of
:14:33. > :14:39.votes, and they do not all have names on them and certainly you
:14:40. > :14:44.don't have two declare your name and address to some passing enforcement
:14:45. > :14:49.officer, so it seems to me, Mr Deputy Speaker, that there is a lot
:14:50. > :14:55.in this Bill which should be removed before it comes back for further
:14:56. > :15:00.consideration at report stage, and I hope that a detailed discussion in
:15:01. > :15:06.consideration and scrutiny of this in committee, that that will be the
:15:07. > :15:11.consequence. We will then be able to look back on this and say, this has
:15:12. > :15:16.been a worthwhile exercise because a not very good Bill has been much
:15:17. > :15:21.improved as a result of proper scrutiny. So, Mr Deputy Speaker, I
:15:22. > :15:31.am not going to speak at length again on this occasion, but I
:15:32. > :15:34.reserve the right on behalf of the petitioners, and I know my
:15:35. > :15:38.honourable friend for Peterborough is equally concerned about this,
:15:39. > :15:51.that the rights of these petitioners are heard in this great home of
:15:52. > :15:58.democracy. Thank you, Deputy Speaker,. I would certainly thank
:15:59. > :16:02.the members for Peterborough, and for Christchurch for the detailed
:16:03. > :16:05.scrutiny and consideration given to this Bill this afternoon. There are
:16:06. > :16:09.certainly elements that we can take from this debate and deal with in
:16:10. > :16:12.committee stage, and particular round some of the rights of powers
:16:13. > :16:16.and engagement then is to be. Given we had such a thorough airing of
:16:17. > :16:24.this Bill, all that remains for me to Bill is to move this Bill to be
:16:25. > :16:32.met a second time. As many of that opinion the McAdoo. On the country,
:16:33. > :16:37.say no. The ayes have it. The question is as on the paper, may on
:16:38. > :16:48.that opinion the aye. Ali Carter, say no. The ayes have it. Rather
:16:49. > :16:52.earlier than I feared, but I am delighted to be addressing the House
:16:53. > :16:58.on the petition on school funding. I must declare an interest, as I sit
:16:59. > :17:02.on the board of the Academy trust at Hillview School for girls, and
:17:03. > :17:06.excellent local school, but one of many excellent local schools that
:17:07. > :17:09.are all going to be straggling that are struggling with the new formula,
:17:10. > :17:15.and I had been petitioned by 75 people on paper and a further few
:17:16. > :17:20.hundred electronically, in order to present a petition to the House of
:17:21. > :17:23.Commons which reads, the petition of residents of Tonbridge declares that
:17:24. > :17:28.school in the area remain underfunded under both the current
:17:29. > :17:30.and proposed funding plans. The petitioners therefore urge the House
:17:31. > :17:32.of Commons denote the objections to the funding formula for schools in
:17:33. > :18:01.Tonbridge. The petitioners remain. Petition, school funding in
:18:02. > :18:09.Tonbridge and Marling. I beg to move this has to adjourn. - thank you, Mr
:18:10. > :18:15.Deputy Speaker, and would like to use as a judgment of this evening to
:18:16. > :18:19.the failure of Hyde Housing Association in my constituency to
:18:20. > :18:26.honour its pledges and promises to the residents of it landed estates
:18:27. > :18:31.and properties. Back in 1999, the tenants and residents of the central
:18:32. > :18:38.stock will area voted for a stock transfer from the council to high
:18:39. > :18:43.homes, part of the Hyde group. 2000 houses were transferred from Lambeth
:18:44. > :18:47.Council and a few years later in 2005 these 650 homes in the
:18:48. > :18:53.Kennington Park estate and the Bridge estate near the Oval followed
:18:54. > :18:59.suit. Hyde Southbank homes were very proactive and very good landlords in
:19:00. > :19:04.the first few years. Headed up then I be was legendary Charlie Adams, it
:19:05. > :19:08.was a bottom-up organisation keen to stick to its commitments are
:19:09. > :19:11.providing tenants with good quality, well managed and well maintained
:19:12. > :19:17.homes at affordable rents in the future. Unfortunately on this sad
:19:18. > :19:21.death of Charlie and the many changes that they made, the
:19:22. > :19:27.management and maintenance went downhill, and residents began to see
:19:28. > :19:32.their real difference. The official documentation of agreement between
:19:33. > :19:38.the residents of Hyde Southbank homes constituted a legal document.
:19:39. > :19:41.It stated, this contact with contain a legally binding document that Hyde
:19:42. > :19:46.Southbank homes would keep all the promises made to you in this
:19:47. > :19:50.document. When deciding about the future ownership of their homes, as
:19:51. > :19:56.you would expect, given incident took there responsibly that Agnes
:19:57. > :20:01.Bollettieri seriously and took the promises they were given very
:20:02. > :20:05.seriously. Were assured legally and morally that they could rely on
:20:06. > :20:10.legal protection, not just at the time of the transfer, but into the
:20:11. > :20:13.future, and the promise doctrine also stated, any surplus money that
:20:14. > :20:18.Hyde Southbank homes makes will remain within the Hyde Southbank
:20:19. > :20:22.homes and will not be shared with any other part of the Hyde group.
:20:23. > :20:26.Hyde explicitly promised that the existing community buildings would
:20:27. > :20:32.be refurbished to provide facilities for all residents, non-Housing
:20:33. > :20:36.services such as improved community facilities would be provided, and
:20:37. > :20:41.they would be encouraging better and more regular use of local
:20:42. > :20:47.facilities, such as the community centres. There are two committee
:20:48. > :20:54.holds owned and managed by Hyde in my constituency, and now they are
:20:55. > :20:59.both at risk in a complete reneging of Hyde Housing's promises to the
:21:00. > :21:06.residents. Following a very unsatisfactory so-called
:21:07. > :21:09.consultation between November and January 2017, Hyde decided to go
:21:10. > :21:15.ahead and with their plans to privatise the community centre and
:21:16. > :21:20.are looking for an organisation to take it on. They have now extended
:21:21. > :21:23.the closing date for its best is of interest from suitable
:21:24. > :21:27.organisations, because only three expressions of interest where
:21:28. > :21:30.received, and because the interested organisations were relatively small,
:21:31. > :21:33.but small town turnovers, and therefore not any strong enough
:21:34. > :21:40.organisation financial position to take responsibility for the building
:21:41. > :21:44.and its management. We also believe these organisations find the
:21:45. > :21:46.conditions for taking the lease of the Centre soap restrictive that it
:21:47. > :21:51.would be of no benefit our advantage to the organisation and we are very
:21:52. > :21:56.concerned and the residents are concerned about the intention of
:21:57. > :22:01.Hyde, honey setting conditions which no well-regarded not-for-profit
:22:02. > :22:04.organisation can agree with Mike under these conditions, the centre
:22:05. > :22:10.could not be made in nicely viable. The Kennington Park estate has been
:22:11. > :22:15.earmarked for closure and demolition, to allow for the
:22:16. > :22:20.building of new homes. We would say, great, new homes, but nearly all of
:22:21. > :22:27.them are designed for sale private shared ownership. The consultation
:22:28. > :22:31.on this for all of the residents of the estate who have a stake in the
:22:32. > :22:37.future of it immediately centre has been very poor indeed. All members
:22:38. > :22:44.of the households on Kennington Park estate past and present or potential
:22:45. > :22:51.futures users of the centre are entitled to be asked what they
:22:52. > :22:56.think. This did not happen. Hyde seemed to think that it was the
:22:57. > :22:59.TRA's responsibility to carry out consultation, but the consultation
:23:00. > :23:04.should have been much wider than just the very immediate past decided
:23:05. > :23:10.the committee the centre, because that centre is used by many people
:23:11. > :23:20.from all around the area. It was a very shoddy consultation, they put
:23:21. > :23:25.out some questions and answers to residents, saying that they owned
:23:26. > :23:32.and managed the media centres, the cost of them was becoming too much
:23:33. > :23:37.for them, and that they therefore try to take advantage of the
:23:38. > :23:41.Government 's 1% reduction for social housing means that they have
:23:42. > :23:47.to make savings. The minister may be surprised to know that despite
:23:48. > :23:57.residents' not liking this 1% rate reduction for social housing, they
:23:58. > :24:00.actually blaming this -- appreciating this at all. It is
:24:01. > :24:04.completely inaccurate to say that Hyde subsidises the running cost,
:24:05. > :24:08.because its income from the tenets' rents to contribute to the
:24:09. > :24:14.maintenance of services such as community centres. It also said
:24:15. > :24:17.that, as a housing provider, the need to make efficient use of their
:24:18. > :24:23.income to prioritise building more homes to help address the housing
:24:24. > :24:27.crisis. This means they have to make difficult choices about what
:24:28. > :24:32.additional services they continue to fund and what they stop. The
:24:33. > :24:36.residents strongly feel that any responsible landlord is required to
:24:37. > :24:42.prioritise delivery of an acceptable standard of landlord services to its
:24:43. > :24:47.existing tenants first. It is a real matter of concern and disappointment
:24:48. > :24:51.to the residents, local councils and myself that Hyde only too clearly
:24:52. > :24:55.puts the funding of new build above its duty and responsibility to
:24:56. > :25:02.deliver to an acceptable standard the full rate of landlord services
:25:03. > :25:10.as required by law. What has happened is that as it will find out
:25:11. > :25:18.about this, it is very clear that the committee is against this. Hyde
:25:19. > :25:25.asserts as I mentioned that they cannot afford to run the Kennington
:25:26. > :25:31.Park Centre D1 stock well. Yet Hyde Housing their current shows a
:25:32. > :25:39.surplus by 2015 and 2016 of over ?2 million and revenue reserves of over
:25:40. > :25:43.?46 million. Member what I mentioned at the beginning, commitments made
:25:44. > :25:49.when it transfers took place, any surplus money that they make would
:25:50. > :25:53.remain in HS age, and would not be shared with any other part of Hyde.
:25:54. > :25:56.That was the promise. In other words, the surface and reserves
:25:57. > :26:00.should be first being reinvested in HS age and should not be just
:26:01. > :26:08.getting up to the high group for building of new housing. At the same
:26:09. > :26:14.time, they should not be replacing the community centre already there.
:26:15. > :26:18.Hyde's argument is that it needs to prioritise building homes, and for
:26:19. > :26:31.all others that is a priority and we know that more than anyone. This is
:26:32. > :26:34.not the same as the revenue generated from the rents. The
:26:35. > :26:39.Kennedy and Parker says residents Association that the revenue
:26:40. > :26:43.generated from the rents does cover the bridge was provided to keep the
:26:44. > :26:50.centre open and running, given that that is less than 2% of HS age's
:26:51. > :26:55.2015, 2016 surplus. Which incidentally was linked to a time
:26:56. > :27:01.when the community centre was closed very often when income was at its
:27:02. > :27:05.potential lowest level due to hide's indecision and incompetence and bad
:27:06. > :27:12.management. There is just real shock that Hyde, after what they promised,
:27:13. > :27:17.and in the early stages of how well they did work with local residents,
:27:18. > :27:23.have now decided to go down this route. Hyde Housing is failing in so
:27:24. > :27:29.many fronts, not just the community centres, from service charges, has
:27:30. > :27:31.one leaders said they are in chaos, the day-to-day maintenance, parking
:27:32. > :27:37.charges, putting new housing in totally inadequate space, and one
:27:38. > :27:44.example that my constituency has given me the quote from his letter,
:27:45. > :27:49.is over service charges. It is typical of the way Hyde work,
:27:50. > :27:53.completely non-transparent. Service charges for this coming year are
:27:54. > :27:56.based on estimates from so-called actual costs, but one which have
:27:57. > :28:01.never had so been sent to the residents. They have been sent out
:28:02. > :28:04.service charges for this year without having any real proof of how
:28:05. > :28:11.the service charges for last year where spent. -- where spent. This
:28:12. > :28:18.President has a long-standing discussions with Hyde, said Timmy
:28:19. > :28:26.that he requested that the account and receipt for the 2013, 2014
:28:27. > :28:29.period and this took over a year to finally arrive in October 2015
:28:30. > :28:34.before they were able to re-examine it. To this day, we still have
:28:35. > :28:44.issues with those that remain unresolved by Hyde. The 2014, 2015
:28:45. > :28:48.accounts, this took Hyde well over six Munster finally provide. After
:28:49. > :28:54.going through those, there were numerous issues which are incorrect
:28:55. > :29:01.and lots of invoices which were not there and not been identified by
:29:02. > :29:08.Hyde. After a number of exchanges, and he dealt with 17 different
:29:09. > :29:12.people in Hyde, they finally got a comprehensive spreadsheet detailing
:29:13. > :29:23.many issues referenced to the invoicing scheme?