30/03/2017

:00:00. > :00:00.described and the need to ensure that we do know where potentially

:00:00. > :00:08.lethal weapons are and that they are in the right hands. Statement the

:00:09. > :00:12.Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, secretary David

:00:13. > :00:16.Davis. With permission I would like to make a statement about Staples

:00:17. > :00:21.back the publication of a White Paper on the great repeal Bill.

:00:22. > :00:23.Yesterday we took the historic step up notifying the European Council of

:00:24. > :00:29.the Dublin's decision to invoke Article 50. The -- the European

:00:30. > :00:35.Council of the government's decision to invoke Article 50. It begins at a

:00:36. > :00:40.two-year negotiation with the EU and it reflects last year's instruction

:00:41. > :00:46.from the people of the EU. It is our first determination to get the right

:00:47. > :00:49.deal for every single person. -- it is Allah the US determination. It is

:00:50. > :00:58.the time to come together to make sure the -- it is our determination.

:00:59. > :01:01.We have been clear that we want a smooth and orderly exit and the

:01:02. > :01:06.great repeal Bill is integral to that approach. It will provide

:01:07. > :01:09.clarity and thousands businesses, workers and consumers across the

:01:10. > :01:15.United Kingdom on the day we leave the EU. It will mean that as we exit

:01:16. > :01:18.the EU and seek a new and special partnership with the EU we will be

:01:19. > :01:23.doing so from a fishing where we have the same standards and rules.

:01:24. > :01:26.But it will also in sure that we deliver on our promise to end the

:01:27. > :01:31.supremacy of European Union law in the UK as we exit. Our laws will

:01:32. > :01:35.then be made in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast and interpreted

:01:36. > :01:40.not our judges in Luxembourg but by judges across the United Kingdom.

:01:41. > :01:42.Some have been concerned that Parliament will not play enough

:01:43. > :01:47.about Brolin shaping the future of the country what we -- once we have

:01:48. > :01:50.left the European Union was up-to-date's White Paper shows how

:01:51. > :01:54.wrong that is. This publication makes clear there will be a series

:01:55. > :02:00.of bills to debate and vote on before and after we leave as well as

:02:01. > :02:04.many statutory points to consider. Let me return to the content of the

:02:05. > :02:07.day's paper. The paper we have published today set out three

:02:08. > :02:11.principal elements of the Great Repeal Bill. First we will repeal

:02:12. > :02:16.the European Community that and return power to the United Kingdom.

:02:17. > :02:21.Second, the Bill will convert EU law in the United Kingdom or, allowing

:02:22. > :02:25.businesses to continue operating knowing the rules have not changed

:02:26. > :02:27.overnight and providing fairness to individuals whose rights and

:02:28. > :02:33.obligations will not be subject to sudden change. And third, the Bill

:02:34. > :02:38.will create the necessary powers to correct the laws that do not operate

:02:39. > :02:41.appropriately once we have left the EU, so that our legal system

:02:42. > :02:49.continues to function correctly outside the European Union. I

:02:50. > :02:51.address each of these elements in turned before talking about

:02:52. > :02:56.devolution settlements and the Bill. Let me begin with the European

:02:57. > :03:05.Community that. On the day we leave the EU peeling the EC act returns us

:03:06. > :03:08.to the sovereignty we left behind and ends the supremacy of EU law in

:03:09. > :03:12.this country. It is entirely necessary to deliver on the result

:03:13. > :03:17.of the referendum. But repealing the ECA alone is not enough. A simple

:03:18. > :03:22.repeal of the EC aid would leave hearts in our statute book. The EU

:03:23. > :03:26.regulations that apply directly would no longer have any effect and

:03:27. > :03:32.many of the domestic regulations would fall away.

:03:33. > :03:37.Are you therefore to provide the maximum possible legal certainty,

:03:38. > :03:42.the great repeal bill will convert EU law into domestic law on the day

:03:43. > :03:46.we leave the European Union. This means for example that the workers'

:03:47. > :03:50.rights, environmental protection and consumer rights enjoyed under EU law

:03:51. > :03:54.in the UK will continue to be available on the UK law after we

:03:55. > :03:58.have left the European Union. Once EU law has been converted into

:03:59. > :04:04.domestic law, Parliament will be able to pass legislation to amend,

:04:05. > :04:07.repeal or approve any piece of European law that it chooses, as

:04:08. > :04:12.will the devolved legislatures where they have the power to do so.

:04:13. > :04:17.However further steps will be needed to provide a smooth and orderly exit

:04:18. > :04:20.because a large number of laws, both existing domestic laws and those we

:04:21. > :04:24.convert into UK law, will not work properly if we leave the EU without

:04:25. > :04:29.taking further action. Some laws would sample grant functions to

:04:30. > :04:36.eight EU institution with which the UK would no longer have a

:04:37. > :04:39.relationship. We need to resolve the problems that would occur as a

:04:40. > :04:46.consequence of leaving the European Union. Using secondary legislation,

:04:47. > :04:51.the flexibility of which, will make sure we put in place the corrections

:04:52. > :04:54.necessary before the day we leave the European Union. I can confirm

:04:55. > :04:57.this power will be time limited and Parliament will need to be satisfied

:04:58. > :05:01.to the procedures in the bill for making and approving the secondary

:05:02. > :05:05.legislation are appropriate. Given the scale of the changes necessary,

:05:06. > :05:12.and the finite amount of time to make them, there is a balance to be

:05:13. > :05:15.struck between the importance of scrutiny and correcting the book in

:05:16. > :05:22.time. As the constitution committee in the other place recently took the

:05:23. > :05:31.lead it, the challenge Parliament will face is in balancing the need

:05:32. > :05:38.for speed and proper parliamentary control. Parliament regularly does

:05:39. > :05:42.vote on secondary legislation. They are not considering executive orders

:05:43. > :05:46.but using a legislative process of long and thin. I hope today's white

:05:47. > :05:49.paper and statement can be the start of a discussion between Parliament

:05:50. > :05:54.and government about how best to achieve this balance. Similar

:05:55. > :05:57.corrections will be needed to the statute books of the three devolved

:05:58. > :06:01.administrations and so we propose the bill will give ministers in the

:06:02. > :06:08.devolved administrations the power to amend devolved legislation to

:06:09. > :06:10.correct their law in the way UK ministers can correct their law. Let

:06:11. > :06:16.me turn to the European Court of Justice and its caselaw. I can

:06:17. > :06:20.confirm that the great repeal bill will provide no future role for the

:06:21. > :06:24.European court in the interpretation of their laws, and the bill will not

:06:25. > :06:28.provide their courts to consider cases decided by the European Court

:06:29. > :06:32.of Justice after we have left. However for as long as EU derived

:06:33. > :06:36.law remains on the UK statute book, it is essential there is a common

:06:37. > :06:40.understanding of what that law means. The government believes this

:06:41. > :06:44.is best achieved by providing for continuity in how that law is

:06:45. > :06:51.interpreted before and after exit today. To maximise certainty there

:06:52. > :06:56.for the bill will provide that any question of EU law converted into UK

:06:57. > :06:59.law will be determined with reference to the European Court of

:07:00. > :07:03.Justice caselaw as it exists on the day we leave the European Union. Any

:07:04. > :07:07.other starting point would be to change the law and create

:07:08. > :07:11.unnecessary uncertainty. This approach maximises legal certainty

:07:12. > :07:15.at the point of departure but our intention is not to fossilise the

:07:16. > :07:20.past decisions of the European Court of Justice. As such we propose the

:07:21. > :07:24.bill will provide that European court caselaw be given the same

:07:25. > :07:28.status in our courts as decisions of our own Supreme Court. The Supreme

:07:29. > :07:32.Court does not frequently depart from its own decisions but it does

:07:33. > :07:36.so from time to time. And we would expect the Supreme Court to take a

:07:37. > :07:39.similar, sparing approach the departing from the European Court of

:07:40. > :07:43.Justice caselaw, but we believe it is right it should have the power to

:07:44. > :07:47.do so. And of course Parliament will be free to change the law and

:07:48. > :07:53.therefore overturn caselaw where it decides it is right to do so. Mr

:07:54. > :07:57.Speaker, today's white paper also sets out the great repeal bill's

:07:58. > :08:02.approach to the charter of fundamental rights. Let me explain

:08:03. > :08:05.our approach here. The charter of fundamental rights only applies to

:08:06. > :08:09.member states when they act within the scope of European Union law.

:08:10. > :08:13.This means its relevance is removed by our withdrawal from the European

:08:14. > :08:17.Union. The government has been clear that in leaving the European Union,

:08:18. > :08:21.the UK's leading role in protecting and advancing human rights will not

:08:22. > :08:25.change. The fact that the charter will fall away will not mean the

:08:26. > :08:29.protection of rights in the UK will suffer as a result. The charter of

:08:30. > :08:34.fundamental rights is not designed to create new rights, but rather to

:08:35. > :08:38.catalogue rights already recognised as general principles in EU law.

:08:39. > :08:43.Something recognised by the Labour government that brought it in with

:08:44. > :08:48.the protocol attached to it back in 2007. Where cases have been decided

:08:49. > :08:51.by reference to those rights, that caselaw will continue to be used to

:08:52. > :08:57.interpret the underlying rights which will be preserved. Mr Speaker,

:08:58. > :09:01.I would now like to turn to devolution. The United Kingdom's

:09:02. > :09:06.domestic constitutional arrangements have evolved since the UK joined the

:09:07. > :09:10.European economic community in 1973. The current devolution settlements

:09:11. > :09:15.were agreed after the UK joined and reflect that context. In areas where

:09:16. > :09:18.the devolved administrations and legislatures have confidence, such

:09:19. > :09:23.as agriculture, environment, some areas of this confidence is

:09:24. > :09:27.exercised within the constraints set by European Union law. The existence

:09:28. > :09:33.of common EU framework has had the effect of providing an effect of a

:09:34. > :09:37.common UK framework in many areas, safeguarding the function of the UK

:09:38. > :09:41.internal market. As powers returned from the EU, we have an opportunity

:09:42. > :09:45.to determine the level best placed to take decisions on these issues,

:09:46. > :09:50.ensuring power fits closely to the people in the United Kingdom than

:09:51. > :09:53.ever before. It is the expectation of the government that the outcome

:09:54. > :09:57.of this process will be a significant increase in the

:09:58. > :10:00.decision-making power of each devolved administration. That we

:10:01. > :10:05.must also ensure that as we leave the European Union, no new barriers

:10:06. > :10:10.to living and doing business within our own union are created. In some

:10:11. > :10:13.areas this will require common UK framework. Decisions will be

:10:14. > :10:18.required about where a common framework is needed and if it is,

:10:19. > :10:23.how it might be established. The devolved administration also act

:10:24. > :10:28.knowledges the importance of UK framework. We will work closely with

:10:29. > :10:31.the devolved administrations to deliver an approach that works for

:10:32. > :10:35.all of the United Kingdom and reflect the needs and individual

:10:36. > :10:38.circumstances of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Let me conclude by

:10:39. > :10:49.stressing the importance of the great repeal bill. It will help to

:10:50. > :10:50.ensure certainty and stability ensure certainty and stability

:10:51. > :10:50.ensuring a smooth and orderly exit. across the board. It is vital

:10:51. > :10:52.ensuring a smooth and orderly exit. It will stand us in good stead for

:10:53. > :10:56.the negotiations with the EU and it will deliver greater control over

:10:57. > :10:59.our laws to this Parliament and where appropriate the devolved

:11:00. > :11:03.administrations. These steps are crucial to implementing the result

:11:04. > :11:07.of a referendum in the national interest. I hope that all sides will

:11:08. > :11:15.recognise that and work with us to achieve these aims. I commend this

:11:16. > :11:18.statement to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I thank the

:11:19. > :11:24.Secretary of State for early sight of his statement and the white

:11:25. > :11:27.paper? Nobody underestimates the task of converting EU law into

:11:28. > :11:35.domestic law. The question is how is it done and what is done? The white

:11:36. > :11:43.paper on the question of how gives sweeping powers to the executive.

:11:44. > :11:48.Sweeping because it proposes a power to use delegated legislation to

:11:49. > :11:53.correct and thus change a primary legislation and also devolved

:11:54. > :11:59.legislation by delegated legislation. Sweeping because of the

:12:00. > :12:02.sheer scale of the exercise. In those circumstances, one might

:12:03. > :12:07.expect some pretty rigorous safeguards to the use of these

:12:08. > :12:16.sweeping powers. But none are found in the white paper. On the contrary,

:12:17. > :12:20.at paragraph 3.20, the white paper says this. Given the scale of the

:12:21. > :12:23.changes that will be necessary and the finite amount of time available

:12:24. > :12:26.to make them, there is a balance that will have to be struck between

:12:27. > :12:30.importance of scrutiny and the speed of the process. It goes on to say

:12:31. > :12:35.the government proposes using existing types of statutory

:12:36. > :12:39.instrument procedure. There are no enhanced safeguards for this

:12:40. > :12:43.sweeping use of powers. Mr Speaker, I think in those circumstances, we

:12:44. > :12:49.have got to go back to first principles. And that if there should

:12:50. > :12:52.be no change to rights and protections without primary

:12:53. > :12:58.legislation. That is a starting and basic principle and the same goes

:12:59. > :13:02.for policy. And I add this. When we see the bill, there must be no power

:13:03. > :13:08.to change rights and obligations and protections in the future by

:13:09. > :13:11.delegated legislation and I ask the Secretary of State to supply

:13:12. > :13:16.assurance on those basic principles this morning, and I ask him to look

:13:17. > :13:19.again at safeguards for the delegated legislation procedures

:13:20. > :13:25.that are proposed. As to the what is to happen in relation to converting

:13:26. > :13:29.law into domestic law, again there have got to be clear principles that

:13:30. > :13:35.they are these. All rights and protections derived from EU law must

:13:36. > :13:37.be converted into domestic law. All rights and protections. No

:13:38. > :13:44.limitations. No qualifications. No limitations. No qualifications. No

:13:45. > :13:47.sunset clauses. This morning we need an assurance from the Secretary of

:13:48. > :13:53.on his own side who will not be able on his own side who will not be able

:13:54. > :13:55.these rights and protections now these rights and protections now

:13:56. > :13:59.before they are even put into this bill. I am reminded that the

:14:00. > :14:03.International Development Secretary and the development campaign said

:14:04. > :14:08.that she thought that we should put half the burden of EU social

:14:09. > :14:10.employment rights and the International Trade Secretary said

:14:11. > :14:16.we must begin by deregulating the labour market. We need assurance

:14:17. > :14:20.that those temptations will be faced down when this bill is put before

:14:21. > :14:22.this House. I turned to the charter of fundamental rights, which it is

:14:23. > :14:29.proposed will be left out altogether. That of course codified

:14:30. > :14:34.in modern form all EU rights. It is not directly enforceable because it

:14:35. > :14:39.is a codification but it is influential and it is wrong to leave

:14:40. > :14:44.it out. I note what is said in the white paper at paragraph 1.12, but I

:14:45. > :14:47.seek reassurance that all relevant rights in the charter, and I accept

:14:48. > :14:51.that some are not relevant like the right to vote in the European

:14:52. > :14:56.Parliament, but all relevant rights in the charter will be converted

:14:57. > :15:02.into domestic law through this bill. And finally, Mr Speaker, on devolved

:15:03. > :15:06.bodies, Brexit should not be an excuse to hoard powers in Whitehall

:15:07. > :15:09.and there has got to be heavy presumption that devolved matters

:15:10. > :15:15.remain devolved as powers and responsibilities transferred from

:15:16. > :15:18.the EU to the UK. I ask the Secretary of State to give that

:15:19. > :15:25.assurance this morning. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. When I

:15:26. > :15:28.finished what I said in a statement, I actually said I hoped the House

:15:29. > :15:33.would come together in making this task happen. And I reiterate that

:15:34. > :15:39.point particularly to the Labour spokesman, my opposite number. He

:15:40. > :15:43.has said no change to rights by delegated legislation. That, I would

:15:44. > :15:50.have thought, almost goes without saying. Well... I said it almost

:15:51. > :15:54.goes without saying but I have actually said it in my statement, if

:15:55. > :16:02.you read that! Let me reiterate. The use of delegated legislation will be

:16:03. > :16:09.for technical changes, the sort of alterations where we are talking, as

:16:10. > :16:11.I said, on one occasion to a regulatory body, let's say, in the

:16:12. > :16:17.European Union, which clearly has got to be replaced by one in the UK.

:16:18. > :16:21.I think that is plain. He changed it's likely to all relevant rights

:16:22. > :16:28.and he is quite right because there are things like the right to stand

:16:29. > :16:31.as an MEP and indeed the right to direct applications will go

:16:32. > :16:37.automatically and I think he accept that too. He is a readable man and I

:16:38. > :16:43.take it he will accept that. In terms of charter rights, let me

:16:44. > :16:47.remind him of what happened in 2007, I think it was the Lisbon Treaty.

:16:48. > :16:51.The Labour government of the day negotiated that and they negotiated

:16:52. > :16:55.the protocol to it, which the Prime Minister of the date said, it is

:16:56. > :16:59.absolutely clear that we have an opt out from the charter and the

:17:00. > :17:04.judicial home affairs. Actually the Prime Minister, Mr Tony Blair, was

:17:05. > :17:06.wrong to say that. He had misunderstood their own protocol.

:17:07. > :17:12.But what the protocol did was to guarantee there were no new rights

:17:13. > :17:16.arising as a result of the charter for fundamental rights. That was

:17:17. > :17:21.reiterated later by the then government in court, reiterated by

:17:22. > :17:24.the Europe minister, the protocol confirms that since the charter

:17:25. > :17:28.creates no rights or circumstances in which the rights can be relied

:17:29. > :17:32.upon before the courts, it does not change the status quo. The white

:17:33. > :17:36.paper in 2007 said the same and only last year in December, I think, the

:17:37. > :17:41.Joint Committee on Human Rights reiterated that understanding. We

:17:42. > :17:44.looked at that very carefully. As you might understand and appreciate,

:17:45. > :17:51.this is an area that I took very seriously indeed. If I make this

:17:52. > :17:54.over to him, apart from the undertakings he has asked for, I

:17:55. > :17:59.make this offer to him, if we turn out in the next two years to find we

:18:00. > :18:06.have missed something, we will put it right. We will put it right. I

:18:07. > :18:10.think on that basis, on that basis, I don't think we have an argument. I

:18:11. > :18:15.don't actually think that will happen either because every

:18:16. > :18:20.indication, indeed a clause by clause surge through the whole

:18:21. > :18:27.charter, didn't throw up a significant issue other than things

:18:28. > :18:32.like the NEP matter and so on. -- MEP.

:18:33. > :18:40.In terms of the suburbs restorations, no powers will be

:18:41. > :18:46.taken away. We have said that time and time again -- of the devolved

:18:47. > :18:49.administration. We expect there to be a big increase in the powers

:18:50. > :18:55.exercised the devolved administrations. We say this to you,

:18:56. > :18:59.we have to maintain the United Kingdom internal market, too. That

:19:00. > :19:03.is four times as important to Scottish businesses the example as

:19:04. > :19:06.the European market is, it is incredibly important to know and I

:19:07. > :19:09.was businesses and Welsh businesses and the illustrations understand

:19:10. > :19:16.that but we'll be having discussions with them at length about how the

:19:17. > :19:20.exercise this and I am very happy to talk to him directly on the matter

:19:21. > :19:28.if that is his wish. I reiterate, this is a difficult task at no means

:19:29. > :19:31.beyond this House to achieve this properly, respecting our democracy

:19:32. > :19:35.but delivering for the British people. I remember honourable

:19:36. > :19:40.members who arrived after the statement started that they said

:19:41. > :19:44.they should not expect to be called and although I am keen to

:19:45. > :19:48.accommodate the extensive interest in this statement there are two well

:19:49. > :19:51.subscribed debates under the auspices of the backbench business

:19:52. > :19:58.committee to follow to which I have to have regard so we need short

:19:59. > :20:01.questions and answers. May I commend my right honourable friend on the

:20:02. > :20:07.clarity and the thoughtful analysis that lies behind this White Paper.

:20:08. > :20:11.Could I also say that as respects the Great Repeal Bill, the reality

:20:12. > :20:17.is that what we will be doing is returning sovereignty to this House

:20:18. > :20:22.so that the decisions that are taken in our lawmaking are made by the

:20:23. > :20:28.British people's representatives in this House, in line with the wishes

:20:29. > :20:32.of general elections and not, and I advised the opposition to bear this

:20:33. > :20:35.in mind, as it is at present, so often as we find, the European

:20:36. > :20:42.scrutiny committee, behind closed doors. I thank him for those

:20:43. > :20:45.comments and I will take this opportunity of thanking him for his

:20:46. > :20:50.work in this area over the years, some of the ideas in this policy

:20:51. > :20:55.area came from his writing in the past. He is right. I make the point

:20:56. > :21:01.to him, people who complain about the use of secondary legislation,

:21:02. > :21:06.the secondary legislation we are talking about, nearly 8000 items of

:21:07. > :21:13.secondary legislation were used to implement European law under the

:21:14. > :21:17.section two of the European Communities Act 1972 so it is

:21:18. > :21:27.hypocritical to attack that but I thank him for his comments and I

:21:28. > :21:31.commend him for his work. On these benches we saw the triggering of

:21:32. > :21:34.Article 50 with a sad day for everybody in Europe, including

:21:35. > :21:38.everybody in the East Highlands will start an EU that has brought us

:21:39. > :21:42.peace, stability, and prosperity. The art turning the clock back 40

:21:43. > :21:50.years and I am glad that the minister reminded his own front

:21:51. > :21:53.ensures that -- it has been suggested that the government is

:21:54. > :21:59.looking at the Henry VIII clauses to push this through, so much for

:22:00. > :22:04.sovereignty. Scotland's but has also been given a Henry VIII treatment.

:22:05. > :22:08.Can I ask the Minister, will he tell us where the legislative consent

:22:09. > :22:13.will be required, where responsibility, and I quote, "Will

:22:14. > :22:20.flow from Brussels to Edinburgh, hardly touching the sides on the

:22:21. > :22:22.way" and who does he mean by democratically elected

:22:23. > :22:25.representatives in section four Twenty20. It strikes me that the

:22:26. > :22:30.government has pushed the big red button not Brexit with their fingers

:22:31. > :22:37.crossed and having very little idea what comes next. -- in section 4.2.

:22:38. > :22:42.Let me say this to the honourable gentleman. He loves his Henry VIII

:22:43. > :22:47.clause, he thinks that the public at large will think that some executive

:22:48. > :22:53.finger dating from the Middle Ages. What we are talking about here is

:22:54. > :22:56.the use of procedure that has been used down the centuries and over

:22:57. > :23:01.which this House has complete control, complete control. The

:23:02. > :23:06.latter is the first thing. The second thing is I have been in the

:23:07. > :23:12.joint committees with his colleague in the Scottish Government and other

:23:13. > :23:18.devolved administration is open the last six months or more and these

:23:19. > :23:22.issues I have raised, bilaterally, and I have said to them will have

:23:23. > :23:26.serious discussions about this because my preference is for more

:23:27. > :23:32.devolution rather than less, that is my viewpoint, and the constraint on

:23:33. > :23:37.that however is where it has direct effect on the whole United Kingdom's

:23:38. > :23:41.interests, so that is the United Kingdom market, it would be bad for

:23:42. > :23:46.Scottish farmers and producers is the United Kingdom market became

:23:47. > :23:50.separated from them. Issues of national security, which we need to

:23:51. > :23:55.deal with, issues of international negotiation and observing

:23:56. > :23:58.international obligations, such as in environmental law, so there has

:23:59. > :24:06.been plenty of areas where it is clear we need to have a UK wide

:24:07. > :24:09.framework. That is what, that is the criteria we will apply and we will

:24:10. > :24:15.discuss it at length with the devolved admission ratios at every

:24:16. > :24:18.stage. This should be called the continuity Bill and it should be

:24:19. > :24:24.reassuring to Remain Benitez as it is the means to keep the rights and

:24:25. > :24:31.laws were that they must like. -- to Remain voters. EU employment rights,

:24:32. > :24:36.for example, if you want to keep those, they must vote for this Bill.

:24:37. > :24:40.He is right. I lay claim to some of the ideas behind the Bill but he is

:24:41. > :24:48.right, to a very large extent it is a continuity Bill. It is their way

:24:49. > :24:50.in which we will protect employment rights, environment rights, whole

:24:51. > :24:53.series of rights and he is quite right, those who want to preserve

:24:54. > :25:00.those rights should vote without any thought for this Bill. I would like

:25:01. > :25:05.to commend the Secretary of State and the excitable demands from part

:25:06. > :25:08.of the Brexit press and to confirm that he will incorporate into

:25:09. > :25:13.British law some of the dues in their crown, such as the habitats

:25:14. > :25:16.directive, the working Time directive, the green renewable

:25:17. > :25:19.directive, which we can all agree upon, but he will know there is a

:25:20. > :25:22.fork in the road. The government will either have to keep those

:25:23. > :25:27.provisions in domestic legislation, in which race the say what the point

:25:28. > :25:32.the first place, or he will those provisions in which case the EU will

:25:33. > :25:35.need safeguards to ensure we are not undercutting EU standards. My

:25:36. > :25:39.question is, will confirm to the House it is impossible to do what

:25:40. > :25:43.the Prime Minister said yesterday, to participate fully in

:25:44. > :25:47.crime-fighting, anti-terrorism, EU measures, without access to

:25:48. > :25:54.databases, the information services and other databases which I know are

:25:55. > :25:58.such devastating crime-fighting tools without abiding by EU data

:25:59. > :26:07.protection directive is overseen by the European Court of justice? After

:26:08. > :26:14.a commendation like the one that the right honourable judgment started

:26:15. > :26:17.with I think my career is over! -- the right honourable gentleman

:26:18. > :26:20.started with. But the Prime Minister referred to yesterday, he is half

:26:21. > :26:24.right and half wrong. What the Prime Minister referred to yesterday is

:26:25. > :26:29.the importance of maintaining either something very similar to or a

:26:30. > :26:35.replacement for the Justice and home affairs arrangements, the Strand of

:26:36. > :26:40.the European treaties, and he is right in one respect. We will

:26:41. > :26:46.undoubtedly, not just in the EU dealing with the United States,

:26:47. > :26:49.other countries, too, have data protection, data laws for example,

:26:50. > :26:55.privacy protection, which meets the standards in order to exchange data

:26:56. > :26:58.with them. We will be at that point at the day we leave the European

:26:59. > :27:03.Union that what this Bill that is ensure we are at that point and

:27:04. > :27:08.therefore able to continue exchanging data. There is no doubt

:27:09. > :27:11.thereafter that there will be continuing discussions about how we

:27:12. > :27:15.maintain our standards at the same level not just the European Union,

:27:16. > :27:25.with all of our allies, whether America, Canada, everybody. Will he

:27:26. > :27:29.confirm that the directives the honourable member for Sheffield

:27:30. > :27:33.Hallam referred to are already in British law and what are included

:27:34. > :27:38.here are 7000 regulations that have got to be applied in British law

:27:39. > :27:42.through this Bill but however referring to directives such as

:27:43. > :27:45.solvency two, which is used as an example of the equity release

:27:46. > :27:48.industry in the United Kingdom, imposing significantly extra costs

:27:49. > :27:53.and I think a British directive would actually help and if we have

:27:54. > :27:58.the opportunity to examine that, within the timescale and the time

:27:59. > :28:01.limits he is going to apply, and seek for that legislation. His

:28:02. > :28:07.general point of directives is right and his "It -- his specific point is

:28:08. > :28:10.right. We will bring us back to United Kingdom. We don't want to

:28:11. > :28:16.change everything. We may want to maintain a degree of parallel

:28:17. > :28:19.standards as part of our own national decision but it will be

:28:20. > :28:24.brought back to his House of Commons and we will make the decision on

:28:25. > :28:29.what is best for this country. The government's aim that EU law that

:28:30. > :28:32.all of its rights and protections will remain in place is a pragmatic

:28:33. > :28:36.approach and we need to find a way of making that happen but the

:28:37. > :28:38.Secretary of State will be aware of concerns that others might try and

:28:39. > :28:41.use this process to get rid of EU laws they have never liked or use

:28:42. > :28:46.these powers to make changes beyond the minimum necessary. Will he

:28:47. > :28:51.therefore commit to consult closely with the select committee on the

:28:52. > :28:57.scope of the Bill and is it his intention to publish the draft but

:28:58. > :29:00.for pre-legislative scrutiny? I will undertake to consult with the select

:29:01. > :29:05.committee on this matter. The issue is very important. I have already

:29:06. > :29:09.told him privately as I will say publicly, we will not be publishing

:29:10. > :29:12.a draft legislation but we will be taking on board after the

:29:13. > :29:16.publication of the White Paper a great deal of confrontation,

:29:17. > :29:20.including the select committee. Can I commend the Secretary of State for

:29:21. > :29:23.the statement today and assure him that I always listen very carefully

:29:24. > :29:27.to what my right honourable friend says and I heard him on the radio

:29:28. > :29:33.this morning explaining that what I had thought was a guarantee that

:29:34. > :29:36.they would be in his words, an absolute guaranteed to deliver

:29:37. > :29:41.exactly the same benefits in the deal in relation to trade and

:29:42. > :29:45.customs, is now apparently an aim, but I am sure he will be true to

:29:46. > :29:51.that aim. This is really a great transfer Bill, that is what it

:29:52. > :29:54.really is. Could the Secretary of State give an unequivocal

:29:55. > :30:00.undertaking that workers' rights, environmental and is and consumer

:30:01. > :30:09.protections will be in no way changed as a result of this Bill and

:30:10. > :30:14.indeed anything else that is taken? The Prime Minister has already given

:30:15. > :30:18.those undertakings. Can I commend him on his statement and on the

:30:19. > :30:21.White Paper. It is the right approach to provide certainty once

:30:22. > :30:26.we leave the EU. In relation to the issue about the administration 's

:30:27. > :30:30.and greater powers there too, can I ask you will in tense of the

:30:31. > :30:37.Peterborough administrations in the two-year period that lies ahead --

:30:38. > :30:42.will he be engaging with the devout administrations in the ten year

:30:43. > :30:47.period that lies ahead? -- the devolved administrations in the ten

:30:48. > :30:53.year period. The White Paper is later in publication. We don't have

:30:54. > :30:56.at this stage of Northern Ireland executive and I have waited for

:30:57. > :30:59.three weeks in the hope that we would have won. At this point we

:31:00. > :31:03.can't wait any longer but we will be continuing to consult with the

:31:04. > :31:08.devolved ministrations. In the Borough to the election in Northern

:31:09. > :31:12.Ireland I invited the outgoing ministers -- in the run-up to the

:31:13. > :31:16.election. I invited the outgoing ministers to make sure we had a

:31:17. > :31:21.mechanism that was I am not sure yet what it will be in Northern Ireland

:31:22. > :31:24.but I am to here his ideas. We will make sure we consult with Northern

:31:25. > :31:29.Ireland whether it is with the executive or not. Can I thank him

:31:30. > :31:33.for making it clear that two years today are a sovereign Parliament

:31:34. > :31:42.will indeed have the power to amend, repeal or improve on this ghastly

:31:43. > :31:57.legislation. -- this ghastly EU legislation. I will pass on the

:31:58. > :32:01.assessment of the legislation but I will reinforce the point I have

:32:02. > :32:09.already made, which is the aim of this Bill is to bring the decisions

:32:10. > :32:12.back to this House. The Secretary of State says that over the next few

:32:13. > :32:18.years, he wants to the maximum scrutiny of legislation but given

:32:19. > :32:24.the sheer volume, particularly delegated legislation that he has

:32:25. > :32:33.outlined, does he think it is really feasible to reduce the number of MPs

:32:34. > :32:41.by 50? This is a question which is above my pay grade! Let me pick up

:32:42. > :32:46.the underpinning point in terms of the volume of legislation. I would

:32:47. > :32:49.say to the House that we are bringing a large amount of

:32:50. > :32:59.legislation straight into EU law -- UK law without change. The reason

:33:00. > :33:02.for change is that there will be technical amendments, technical

:33:03. > :33:06.issues which will come up. Separately that there will be

:33:07. > :33:10.primary legislation on immigration, customs and a variety of other

:33:11. > :33:16.areas. That is different. At the technical legislation will be aiming

:33:17. > :33:19.to make things practical, not to maintain great changes in policy and

:33:20. > :33:25.this House should be able to do that.

:33:26. > :33:31.Leave campaigners will vote for this process as part of the withdrawal,

:33:32. > :33:35.but we want the provisions to continue, so can the Secretary of

:33:36. > :33:47.State think of any good reason why the Great Repeal Bill should not be

:33:48. > :33:51.passed unanimously? No. LAUGHTER The Secretary of State needs to make

:33:52. > :33:56.it clear now that all of those protocols relating to justice and

:33:57. > :34:00.home affairs and protection will stay part of our laws and the

:34:01. > :34:05.cooperation requirements that we have because in the Article 50

:34:06. > :34:07.letter yesterday, shamefully, the government suggested that

:34:08. > :34:12.circumstances where we might even consider withdrawing or weakening

:34:13. > :34:18.our cooperation. Shouldn't he realise that that sort of squalid

:34:19. > :34:27.negotiation tactic will result in less good deal than a better one?

:34:28. > :34:29.You should know better. The leader of the House was here, who was

:34:30. > :34:34.previously the Europe minister and he made it clear in terms that what

:34:35. > :34:38.the Prime Minister was talking about was the fact that existing treaty

:34:39. > :34:43.arrangements which will end when we leave the European Union, will fall

:34:44. > :34:51.by the wayside, so we will have to find an alternative. Not our

:34:52. > :34:53.internal legal rights and privileges, but the treaty

:34:54. > :34:59.arrangement, that is the important thing. I very much welcome the

:35:00. > :35:03.pragmatic approach that the Secretary of State has adopted in

:35:04. > :35:07.this document and especially his emphasis on legal certainty and

:35:08. > :35:15.continuity which is vital for continued business confidence. Going

:35:16. > :35:23.forward, does he agree that it will be important to maintain the

:35:24. > :35:25.mechanism for making sure of continuing important issues like the

:35:26. > :35:31.financial service sectors, how might that be taken forward? I'm going to

:35:32. > :35:36.signal protection, that is to people who have finished my career today,

:35:37. > :35:42.being called pragmatic, as well -- two people. These but with the women

:35:43. > :35:47.come to do the trade deals and other deals, they will be relationships

:35:48. > :35:52.with us and with other countries to make sure we maintain common

:35:53. > :35:57.standards -- the truth is when it comes to the trade deals. There will

:35:58. > :36:02.be things that we will negotiate but it will be a surprise if I was to

:36:03. > :36:09.talk those negotiations up in this place at this time. I do worry

:36:10. > :36:12.because the Secretary of State says in his white paper, existing

:36:13. > :36:15.parliamentary procedures allow for Parliament to scrutinise as many or

:36:16. > :36:21.as few statutory instruments as it sees fit, that is not true. In 2014,

:36:22. > :36:26.2015, nine negative statutory instruments were played against by

:36:27. > :36:29.the Leader of the Opposition and only one was allowed a debate and

:36:30. > :36:34.that was not on the floor of the House and so it could not be a vital

:36:35. > :36:37.motion. 19 were prayed against by the opposition last year and only

:36:38. > :36:42.five were debates, only in committee, not a single one was

:36:43. > :36:45.about a vote in the House, this is not bringing back control to this

:36:46. > :36:52.House, we will be worried unless you change the process. Of course, we

:36:53. > :37:01.will start by buying the conventions that apply and we do have a

:37:02. > :37:07.procedure which has its effects and influence -- applying the

:37:08. > :37:13.conventions. If he wants to talk about about how we can improve this,

:37:14. > :37:17.I'm happy to talk to him. The UK judges will be less creative, that

:37:18. > :37:28.is an open question, but the notion of incorporating EU regulation and

:37:29. > :37:31.indeed caselaw gives me the collywobbles but you have my support

:37:32. > :37:42.in the division lobby because he has bigger fish to fry. As the White

:37:43. > :37:47.Paper says, we made a very explicit decision that we would aim to make

:37:48. > :37:51.this Supreme Court level president, that is to reduce the number of

:37:52. > :37:56.courts that I going to deal with this, just the Supreme Court itself,

:37:57. > :38:00.and the Supreme Court is fairly careful about changing its own

:38:01. > :38:07.president and does so relatively rarely -- precedent. That is what we

:38:08. > :38:16.expect to continue to be the case. But anything they do, this House can

:38:17. > :38:18.change. Plaid Cymru is demanding a continuity built to enshrine

:38:19. > :38:24.appropriate European law in Welsh law. Will he confirm that

:38:25. > :38:28.Westminster will not block or undermine our rights to legislate

:38:29. > :38:35.for Wales? My message to the British government is this, from the people

:38:36. > :38:39.of Wales, hands off our Parliament. I reiterate, no powers that are

:38:40. > :38:45.currently exercised by default administrations will be taken from

:38:46. > :38:49.them. -- devolved. Do you agree that the key point about the Great Repeal

:38:50. > :38:59.Bill is that the legal precedents of laws imposed on this country by the

:39:00. > :39:02.EU will end? Well, the legal president won't necessarily end but

:39:03. > :39:07.they will be susceptible to our change -- precedent. We will be able

:39:08. > :39:13.to change them in our courts and our Parliament. With reference to the

:39:14. > :39:20.criminal justice measures of which we are already a part, and the Prime

:39:21. > :39:23.Minister's Article 50 letter yesterday, can be Secretary of State

:39:24. > :39:29.set out for the house have the safety and protection of the public

:39:30. > :39:34.will be in harms by us reducing our cooperation on crime and terrorism?

:39:35. > :39:38.As the Prime Minister made plain yesterday, she wants to see a

:39:39. > :39:42.comprehensive agreement, and people have interpreted that as conference

:39:43. > :39:46.of trade, but it is a contents of agreement across all issues where we

:39:47. > :40:02.have a relationship with the European Union -- comprehensive

:40:03. > :40:10.trade. Taking this regulation and as an example, what will happen with EU

:40:11. > :40:14.law? That is the point of bringing them back to the House, so we can

:40:15. > :40:18.deal with it. It will be right across the board, we have 40 years

:40:19. > :40:21.of law, and it will take time to correct some of those if we don't

:40:22. > :40:25.agree with, but of course much of it we do agree with, and that will take

:40:26. > :40:32.time, but the House will have an opportunity. You speak of working

:40:33. > :40:34.closely with devolved administrations in each part of the

:40:35. > :40:37.UK, but it is d j vu all over again UK, but it is d j vu all over again

:40:38. > :40:42.and this government has so far done nothing to demonstrate its intention

:40:43. > :40:45.to work for the devolved administrations and if they continue

:40:46. > :40:49.with this as attainable approach of ignoring the will of the Scottish

:40:50. > :40:52.parliament in relation to Brexit and indeed any other issue, can I ask

:40:53. > :40:57.the Secretary of State why the devolved administrations should

:40:58. > :41:06.trust the UK Government on anything? Sometimes I have to say that the SNP

:41:07. > :41:10.seem to have one element in its ideology and one element only, this

:41:11. > :41:16.entitled grievance, and the maximisation of grievances. I have

:41:17. > :41:25.attended in the last six months, six meetings with representatives of the

:41:26. > :41:29.devolved administrations and in a number of the policy areas we have

:41:30. > :41:34.discussed the mill have made it into the previous White Paper -- we have

:41:35. > :41:41.discussed, have made it into the previous White Paper, like

:41:42. > :41:44.employment rights, and agreement we need the best possible access will

:41:45. > :41:47.trade for all parts of the kingdom, and we have been in the same place.

:41:48. > :41:53.But we haven't been in the same place on every single element of

:41:54. > :41:57.policy, and we said at the beginning devolved administrations would not

:41:58. > :42:01.be given a veto but they will be heavily consulted and that is

:42:02. > :42:04.precisely what we have done. The fact the Scottish National Party was

:42:05. > :42:10.to claim it is not happy about that is a matter for it and not a matter

:42:11. > :42:14.for me or the facts. Those who wish to remain in the EU go on about

:42:15. > :42:18.rules and regulations, but surely the point of leaving the EU is that

:42:19. > :42:23.we in this place can live under our own rules and regulation that are

:42:24. > :42:29.suitable to us, not necessarily to 28 countries as they carry stand.

:42:30. > :42:35.You are exactly right. -- currently stand. Notwithstanding the

:42:36. > :42:38.inevitable process from the Secretary of State that he is always

:42:39. > :42:42.appearing before this House, the hallmark of his government is to

:42:43. > :42:47.avoid scrutiny and accountability and we now hear the Great Repeal

:42:48. > :42:51.Bill will be thousands statutory instruments, many not scrutinised

:42:52. > :42:53.properly, how on earth can that be commensurate with taking back

:42:54. > :42:59.control and increasing sovereignty of this Parliament? You continue in

:43:00. > :43:03.your habit of reading half of what we say and ignoring the other half

:43:04. > :43:07.when it suits him. One of the things I've said from the beginning, we

:43:08. > :43:21.will bring into British law all European law -- -- all European law,

:43:22. > :43:30.except where we choose not to, and we can modify technical act --

:43:31. > :43:33.aspects. We are talking about 40 years of law, night would be

:43:34. > :43:41.interested to hear what he would propose that we do about a law which

:43:42. > :43:49.refers to a European regulatory body. Have a debate? Where there

:43:50. > :43:52.will be material changes and policy changes will be carried through in

:43:53. > :43:59.primary legislation of which there will be a number of such bills in

:44:00. > :44:03.the coming months. Can I commend the Secretary of State for his approach,

:44:04. > :44:06.but the White Paper is absent in any discussion about English devolution

:44:07. > :44:11.and I wonder in the extent to which he envisaged that this opens up

:44:12. > :44:19.opportunities for further legal powers to be devolved to the English

:44:20. > :44:24.regions and how that might work. Not deliberately in this white Paper,

:44:25. > :44:28.but he will know for example that the Chancellor announced further

:44:29. > :44:31.devolution powers to London, for example, and I've been talking to

:44:32. > :44:35.the Mayor of London to a great extent about issues for London in

:44:36. > :44:38.this manner. Not in this White Paper, but that is part of the

:44:39. > :44:44.overall strategy, to bring government as close as possible to

:44:45. > :44:51.the people. Despite government protests to the contrary, leaving

:44:52. > :44:55.the EU doesn't automatically and necessarily mean leaving the single

:44:56. > :45:02.market, and equally leaving the treaty of the European Union doesn't

:45:03. > :45:06.automatically and necessarily mean leaving the European economic area

:45:07. > :45:18.agreement. Will his so-called repeal Bill repeal the EEA act of 1983 and

:45:19. > :45:23.will every member of this House get a specific vote on this issue? I

:45:24. > :45:30.have rarely heard a question based on semifinals premises was -- so

:45:31. > :45:36.many false emesis was leaving the European Union does involve leaving

:45:37. > :45:42.the single market, and whatever you think about the vote last year, it

:45:43. > :45:46.was not a vote in favour of allowing the control of migration and the

:45:47. > :45:53.control of laws and indeed the operation of the European court of

:45:54. > :45:58.justice to stay in Europe. Can I commend my friend on his mature and

:45:59. > :46:02.considered approach to the devolved nations and can I pushing on the

:46:03. > :46:07.principle that if the UK internal market which is so important to my

:46:08. > :46:13.constituency of Cardiff North, the principle of the powers, if they

:46:14. > :46:19.don't affect the market, they will be coming back to the devolved

:46:20. > :46:23.nations as soon as possible? I'm not going to demur from the principle

:46:24. > :46:30.I've outlined. UK single market is several times bigger for Wales,

:46:31. > :46:36.Scotland and Northern Ireland, than the EU single market, but there is

:46:37. > :46:46.?1 billion weaker trade between Northern Ireland and Ireland -- a

:46:47. > :46:52.week trade. We will have to protect matters such as the single market in

:46:53. > :46:57.the UK and other matters such as security and environmental

:46:58. > :47:01.agreements. The government has already signalled its intention to

:47:02. > :47:08.withdraw from the Common fisheries policy but chapter four paragraphs

:47:09. > :47:12.two suggests that not just the EU powers such as fisheries will revert

:47:13. > :47:16.to the UK Government, rather than devolved institutions, but the

:47:17. > :47:21.government intends to repeat the current frameworks provided by EU

:47:22. > :47:23.rules the UK legislation. Is the government suggesting that we will

:47:24. > :47:29.have business as usual for the fishing industry under this

:47:30. > :47:31.framework after Brexit? If not, can he enlighten us to the government's

:47:32. > :47:41.plans? One thing I would say is, so what

:47:42. > :47:43.she calls business as usual will be temporary, some permanent, and that

:47:44. > :47:49.will depend on Tiley on the criterion I lay down earlier. Does

:47:50. > :47:55.he agree that this is the only option if we are to truly restore

:47:56. > :48:00.control over our laws to the British people, reverse and ever intrusive

:48:01. > :48:04.influenced by the ECJ on social and economic policy areas, and its

:48:05. > :48:07.operation as a federal court, things we never envisaged at its conception

:48:08. > :48:12.in 1957? She is right. That is exactly why

:48:13. > :48:16.the Prime Minister made that and important central place of our

:48:17. > :48:21.policy. ... Didn't mention the customs union

:48:22. > :48:28.in her statement, nor is it referred to in her letter to President Task.

:48:29. > :48:34.Paragraph one to two says, we will introduce a customs bill to

:48:35. > :48:36.establish a framework to implement a UK customs regime. Will the

:48:37. > :48:41.Secretary of State confirmed that he intends to take is out of the

:48:42. > :48:44.customs union? Well, unusually for him, as an

:48:45. > :48:47.ex-Mitie chairman, he missed the ex-Mitie chairman, he missed the

:48:48. > :48:51.fact that she may direct reference to the White Paper, which does

:48:52. > :48:56.coverings are clear that point. I know that we can rely on my right

:48:57. > :48:59.honourable friend to be an extremely robust negotiator, but just for the

:49:00. > :49:05.sake of absolute clarity in terms of the role of the European Court of

:49:06. > :49:10.Justice, can he confirm that it will have absolutely no authority in the

:49:11. > :49:13.UK, and that it will -- he will not hinder any Scissor Sisters is

:49:14. > :49:17.watered down that commitment during negotiation?

:49:18. > :49:22.I was just going to say yes, and make very plain what I will say.

:49:23. > :49:26.There will be no reach of the European Court of Justice into the

:49:27. > :49:30.UK. Of course, it is the case that when you sell a product into another

:49:31. > :49:34.country, you meet the rules in that country. You do it into the United

:49:35. > :49:41.States, you meet the rules set down by the Supreme Court. The same will

:49:42. > :49:43.happen in Europe, but it will not reach here.

:49:44. > :49:48.Yesterday, you invited me to behave as if I were in a court of law. Can

:49:49. > :49:52.I extend your entirely appropriate invitation to the Secretary of

:49:53. > :49:56.State, and suggest that he pretends he is a court of law, and answer the

:49:57. > :50:02.question posed by my honourable friend, the member for North East

:50:03. > :50:06.legislative consent motion is, yes legislative consent motion is, yes

:50:07. > :50:09.or no? I apologise, I forgot the point that

:50:10. > :50:14.he was making in response to the he was making in response to the

:50:15. > :50:18.other ones. At this stage, we don't know, because we don't know the

:50:19. > :50:23.final format of the bill. I welcome this bill, and the

:50:24. > :50:26.certainty that it provides the business throughout this process.

:50:27. > :50:31.Could he confirm that this certainty of business will be at the forefront

:50:32. > :50:37.and a priority for him throughout? Yes, and that is fundamental to the

:50:38. > :50:39.strategy behind this bill. Thank you. The public are extremely

:50:40. > :50:42.worried about these Henry VIII worried about these Henry VIII

:50:43. > :50:49.clauses. In chapter three of his White Paper, he says that one of the

:50:50. > :50:57.areas where he wants to use secondary legislation is on the

:50:58. > :51:00.change from EU institutions. There are 40 of these EU institutions

:51:01. > :51:08.ranging from medicines to aviation safety. If we lose, he will have a

:51:09. > :51:11.choice. He can either set up a new one or abandon the regulation

:51:12. > :51:16.altogether. Does he really think it is appropriate to do that with

:51:17. > :51:22.statutory instruments? Well, the 40 are not in the UK, they

:51:23. > :51:29.are across the union. And it may be and it may not be. It depends. If,

:51:30. > :51:33.for example,... She starts haggling, I will answer here. If it is adding

:51:34. > :51:36.it to, for example, another regulatory body already in

:51:37. > :51:40.existence, that might be appropriate. In other cases, you are

:51:41. > :51:44.creating a body which might be appropriate to have a rather heavier

:51:45. > :51:47.level of debate and parliamentary insights to it.

:51:48. > :51:51.He will be aware that the procedure committee is doing an enquiry into

:51:52. > :51:56.how we get the great repeal bill into law. Unfortunately, he has not

:51:57. > :52:02.been able to appear before us. Can I urge him to agree a date when we can

:52:03. > :52:04.help facilitate this Great Repeal Bill process? I'm happy to say yes,

:52:05. > :52:09.I will be doing so. That was the I will be doing so. That was the

:52:10. > :52:11.intention, and I cannot remember the reason for the deferral last time,

:52:12. > :52:21.but it will happen. . The bill says that EU law will

:52:22. > :52:26.become better to UK law wherever practical appropriate, allowing UK

:52:27. > :52:30.businesses to keep trading knowing the rules have changed. By companies

:52:31. > :52:33.like Nissan and Hitachi in the Northeast need to continue to expand

:52:34. > :52:39.in order to have future prosperity. So what is he going to do to ensure

:52:40. > :52:43.that opportunities to grow a exist, and workers' rights are protected

:52:44. > :52:48.too? She will notice that Nissan made an

:52:49. > :52:50.favourable to the north-east. It is favourable to the north-east. It is

:52:51. > :52:57.a little wider than just this White Paper. We said, and indeed the Prime

:52:58. > :52:59.Minister said in the article 50 letter yesterday, one of

:53:00. > :53:04.important things was putting in important things was putting in

:53:05. > :53:07.practice transitional arrangements or implementations, was the phrase

:53:08. > :53:14.used, and that relate exactly so that, to give a degree of certainty.

:53:15. > :53:17.May have blacked out part of the Peak District national park in my

:53:18. > :53:22.constituency, and with that in mind, does he agree that this is an

:53:23. > :53:26.important bill for ensuring environmental but and I maintain,

:53:27. > :53:30.and the opportunity to enhance them, and anyone supporting those aims

:53:31. > :53:36.should really welcome this bill? Yes, he is exactly right.

:53:37. > :53:39.are maintained, and the only way are maintained, and the only way

:53:40. > :53:44.that would not be cases of this house may be explicit decision to

:53:45. > :53:46.change them. Reference to disabled people

:53:47. > :53:52.disability has been scant if at all apparent in any of the government

:53:53. > :53:55.White Papers. As the government consider that all the impact on

:53:56. > :53:58.disabled people, who are some of our most Bill Noble, and will he confirm

:53:59. > :54:04.there will be no erosion of their rights moving forward? As a result

:54:05. > :54:05.of this, certainly not. I can only talk to the White Paper here, and

:54:06. > :54:09.one thing we have tried to do one thing we have tried to do

:54:10. > :54:14.throughout this is to maintain rights that arise out of European

:54:15. > :54:20.law in British law. That is what we will do. I have known the Secretary

:54:21. > :54:24.of State a long time, and he will expect a rough, tough road ahead, as

:54:25. > :54:27.people like me fight for every write our citizens of Europe have in this

:54:28. > :54:35.country, to retain those rights. But is he aware that if he panders too

:54:36. > :54:40.much to the secret and quiet, or not so secret, agenda of the Barmy Army

:54:41. > :54:44.Eurosceptics prominent behind him, he will not get the level of

:54:45. > :54:52.cooperation he otherwise would when he talks about pragmatism? Well, the

:54:53. > :54:59.honourable gentleman has known me a long time, indeed, I will tell the

:55:00. > :55:05.house on another occasion how he got me into deep trouble in this house.

:55:06. > :55:07.But what I will say to him is this. He should, if you listen to my

:55:08. > :55:13.statement, have realised what this is about is to a very large extent,

:55:14. > :55:17.preserving rights that people have got used to and expect to continue

:55:18. > :55:23.to have, and that is what this will do. I Dohmen who he is referring to

:55:24. > :55:27.in his rather strange allusions to armies of one sort or another. -- I

:55:28. > :55:31.But he can be sure that the first But he can be sure that the first

:55:32. > :55:35.thing I will trust my mind in dealing with this thing is my

:55:36. > :55:39.conscience. Does the Secretary of State in ten

:55:40. > :55:45.the Great Repeal Bill Moment I Will To Devolve Something That I

:55:46. > :55:48.Currently Reserved, Or Reserve Something Is Currently Devolve, Or

:55:49. > :55:52.Will He Be Bringing Forward A New Scotland Bill, And If So, When?

:55:53. > :55:57.I Have Made Two Points On This, Which I Will Reiterate. No Decisions

:55:58. > :56:00.Currently Exercised By Devolved Administrations Will Apparently

:56:01. > :56:02.There Would Be Taken Away From Them. Secondly, There Will Be An Increase

:56:03. > :56:08.In The Number Powers Exercised By The Devolved Administrations.

:56:09. > :56:14.The Government Seems To overlook the fact that we can just incorporate

:56:15. > :56:17.into UK law things that are based on reciprocal arrangements with our

:56:18. > :56:21.European partners. How long does he think that it will take, for

:56:22. > :56:24.trading arrangements we have? This trading arrangements we have? This

:56:25. > :56:31.White Paper does not relate to that. She is right that we have to

:56:32. > :56:39.negotiate reciprocal arrangements. That is what we will do. That is why

:56:40. > :56:41.we have proposed a comprehensive negotiation of free trade

:56:42. > :56:45.arrangements. We believe that is eminently achievable because we are

:56:46. > :56:50.ready have common standards. That is what this bill does, maintain common

:56:51. > :56:55.standards. And we already have outstanding levels of trade between

:56:56. > :56:59.us. ?290 billion of trade from the European Union to us, which they

:57:00. > :57:04.will want to preserve every bit as much as we do. As we say in Glasgow,

:57:05. > :57:08.where is your parliamentary sovereignty now? This great power

:57:09. > :57:12.grab is taking power from Basil 's bureaucrats and adding it to

:57:13. > :57:15.Whitehall mandarins. Given the statutory instruments are not

:57:16. > :57:19.consent, can he assures the no consent, can he assures the no

:57:20. > :57:20.statutory instruments will be used in devolved matters?

:57:21. > :57:24.Well, it actually goes back to the Well, it actually goes back to the

:57:25. > :57:29.issue raised by his spokesman. We will be speaking to the devolved

:57:30. > :57:35.administrations about the extent to which this has impact, and making

:57:36. > :57:38.sure that there are increases, but not decreases, and the powers

:57:39. > :57:40.available to the devolved administrations.

:57:41. > :57:47.Thank you very much. The Secretary of State consistently ignores my

:57:48. > :57:49.honourable friend from Lewisham East, and the perfectly reasonable

:57:50. > :57:54.point about the EEA act, which is the UK Government has to give

:57:55. > :57:58.12-month' notice to remove itself from the EEA. So how will that be

:57:59. > :58:02.dealt with in the bill, or has the Secretary of State to be forgotten

:58:03. > :58:07.about it? No, but it is not a matter of the Great Repeal Bill. The great

:58:08. > :58:10.download and save until the late Bill is really going to lead to a

:58:11. > :58:15.carnival of reaction, where alongside the so-called bonfire of

:58:16. > :58:20.red tape, we will see ministers competing in a demolition derby to

:58:21. > :58:26.reduce various rights and environmental protections. This is

:58:27. > :58:29.also a charter for die elution before devolution. Does the

:58:30. > :58:31.Secretary of State recognise that for some of us trust Tory ministers

:58:32. > :58:34.with the sort of holding and moulding powers that he wants to

:58:35. > :58:43.give them would be like asking Attila the Hun to mind her horse?

:58:44. > :58:49.I didn't know he had a voice! But I will say this to him. His entire

:58:50. > :58:57.approach to this, his entire assessment of this, is just plain

:58:58. > :59:01.wrong. Paragraph 320 save the need to trade scrutiny for speed, whereas

:59:02. > :59:06.paragraph 313 says the government does not want to be unduly

:59:07. > :59:09.constrained to adapt EU laws. So is the executive creating a democratic

:59:10. > :59:14.deficit by using secondary legislation? And how can I justify

:59:15. > :59:19.this? Were not going to create a democratic deficit. This is a White

:59:20. > :59:23.discuss with. So from what he just discuss with. So from what he just

:59:24. > :59:29.the bill. So can he confirm to the the bill. So can he confirm to the

:59:30. > :59:35.house, then, that there will be a separate vote in parliament in

:59:36. > :59:38.relation to the EEA? Depending on what the policy decisions, I would

:59:39. > :59:49.think it was quite likely to come to the Parliament. How can 's trading

:59:50. > :59:55.security cooperation be optimised with parallel court judgments?

:59:56. > :00:00.Surely European court will have to continue, and it will have to

:00:01. > :00:04.continue beyond Brexit another step the point of Brexit of the statement

:00:05. > :00:06.suggests? Not at all. The whole point is to bring the law were in

:00:07. > :00:10.control of parliament in our own cause, and they will continue to

:00:11. > :00:13.interpret them as they see fit. They may continue to obey residents

:00:14. > :00:24.previously set, or they may decide to choose to change it. It will be

:00:25. > :00:27.matter for the House of Commons to matter for the House of Commons to

:00:28. > :00:32.decide whether we want to change those matters too. I will make once

:00:33. > :00:36.I point to him on this. That is the Supreme Court very often looks at

:00:37. > :00:39.other courts around the world, not just the European Court, but

:00:40. > :00:45.American court and others in order to make his decisions. Thank you.

:00:46. > :00:48.There was no mention of Gibraltar in the letter yesterday, and I am

:00:49. > :00:53.pleased to say it does get at least a mention in today's publication.

:00:54. > :00:57.But given that an overwhelming number of its residents voted to

:00:58. > :00:59.remain in the EU, can the Secretary of State explain how this bill will

:01:00. > :01:05.give certainty to businesses and Gibraltar? Well, as she sees, there

:01:06. > :01:12.is an entire section on overseas territories and the like.

:01:13. > :01:15.My honourable friend the parliamentary secretary has been in

:01:16. > :01:19.continuous discussion with Gibraltar on these matters, and we will seek

:01:20. > :01:24.to defend their interests as best we can.

:01:25. > :01:29.Thank you. Could the Secretary of State be clearer, please. I think he

:01:30. > :01:38.has denied it could be up to 1000, so what is his best estimate? How

:01:39. > :01:45.many EU laws will become UK laws? Well, it is for the laws by UK laws

:01:46. > :01:51.at the point that macro as a result of this bill. There will be

:01:52. > :02:01.subsequent changes, for example, an immigration

:02:02. > :02:07.law, and he has shouted out, how many, and unfortunately, I am going

:02:08. > :02:10.to give him the quality field that without. All of them will move into

:02:11. > :02:14.UK law. Thank you, we now come into the

:02:15. > :02:19.backbench motion on animal welfare. I call Mr Neil Parish. Thank you

:02:20. > :02:24.in a didgeridoo is this debate on in a didgeridoo is this debate on

:02:25. > :02:29.animal welfare. -- to come in and introduce this debate on animal

:02:30. > :02:34.welfare. Legislation on animal welfare was published last year, the

:02:35. > :02:40.result of a long enquiry looking at aspects of animal welfare, of

:02:41. > :02:45.domestic pets such as dogs, cats, and horses. We took evidence from

:02:46. > :02:51.animal welfare charities, local government, the national police

:02:52. > :03:00.chief counsel, industries' representatives, it academics, vats

:03:01. > :03:02.visited Battersea Dogs And Cats Home visited Battersea Dogs And Cats Home

:03:03. > :03:07.to learn about their work, as well as a commercial breeder and an

:03:08. > :03:09.animal rescue centre in Wales. Animal cruelty sentences. The

:03:10. > :03:14.committee was completely unanimous on this particular point. The

:03:15. > :03:21.current penalties for animal welfare offences in England are too low, far

:03:22. > :03:27.too low. The maximum sentence of animal cruelty is six months in

:03:28. > :03:28.president and an unlimited fine. Will he takes on evidence from me on

:03:29. > :03:40.that? Certainly. I agree with that and with your

:03:41. > :03:43.excellent motion, but part of the problem is getting courts to impose

:03:44. > :03:48.the minimum sentences, even though they are too low. You are absolutely

:03:49. > :03:53.right. I feel that if we had a larger sentence and there was more

:03:54. > :03:58.flexibility in the courts, when you have the very worst of cases, the

:03:59. > :04:02.magistrates will have that ability to make that sentence but he is

:04:03. > :04:08.absolutely right, there is sometimes not enough sentencing, not on long

:04:09. > :04:15.enough sentence, even with the mad we have of the moment, six months.

:04:16. > :04:19.-- the amount we have at the moment. Thanks for giving way and securing

:04:20. > :04:22.the debate. He mentioned the committee being unanimous, does he

:04:23. > :04:26.also agree that many constituents across the UK have e-mailed members

:04:27. > :04:31.of Parliament to come here today because they agree with the

:04:32. > :04:37.committee, as well? You make a very good point. There is huge public

:04:38. > :04:41.support I believe for strong sentencing and I hope that the

:04:42. > :04:44.government is listening to this. When we are looking at the amount

:04:45. > :04:48.and the number of people in prisons, I accept that we don't want huge

:04:49. > :04:54.sentences for every crime, but I can't believe that beating dogs and

:04:55. > :04:58.cats and other animals to death, if you plead guilty you get a 30%

:04:59. > :05:02.automatic reduction in sentence, and you get four months, do you believe

:05:03. > :05:09.that is enough? I don't think anyone believes that is enough. Can I

:05:10. > :05:14.commend him for bringing this debate forward and wholeheartedly support

:05:15. > :05:18.him in doing so, declaring my interest as having a dog is part of

:05:19. > :05:21.my family. If you look globally at the sanctions for these renders

:05:22. > :05:26.crimes, we are really poor, and I wonder if you could comment on that

:05:27. > :05:33.bash these horrendous crimes. He makes a very good point. Our

:05:34. > :05:37.sentences are lower than Scotland and than in Northern Ireland and

:05:38. > :05:43.therefore even in our own countries of the United Kingdom there is far

:05:44. > :05:52.stiffer sentencing. It is the message that it sends. The sentiment

:05:53. > :05:58.being that relies entirely on our human care is beaten to death and so

:05:59. > :06:04.we get less than perhaps for stealing a computer. -- ascent into

:06:05. > :06:09.being. It really is not on. And my honourable friend is listening

:06:10. > :06:14.carefully and I know he's very keen on animal welfare, maybe not always

:06:15. > :06:17.in his remit to increase the sentencing, but we must get this

:06:18. > :06:25.message over loud and clear. I will give way. To reinforce the point,

:06:26. > :06:32.1.2 million people have contacted the RSPCA about animal cruelty, and

:06:33. > :06:38.the legislation, and I support what you are trying to achieve today. I

:06:39. > :06:43.thank you and agree entirely, there is a lots of aspects of animal

:06:44. > :06:47.cruelty that does get reported, and there are other aspects that don't

:06:48. > :06:53.get reported. The whole idea of having a stronger sentencing would

:06:54. > :06:56.be to send that deterrent because what we want to do is to try and

:06:57. > :07:01.stop this cruelty happening in the first place. This would send the

:07:02. > :07:06.right message if we have at least a five-year sentence and then it will

:07:07. > :07:13.be up to the courts to decide what sentence they actually dished out in

:07:14. > :07:17.the end. I'm very grateful. I congratulate him on securing this

:07:18. > :07:25.debate, but would he not agree with me that it is so much more important

:07:26. > :07:29.to prevent cruelty in the first base and changing the laws about airguns

:07:30. > :07:35.is also important. -- the first place. Cats and dogs are often

:07:36. > :07:41.targets for these airguns. You raise again a very good point. Airguns can

:07:42. > :07:51.be used terribly where cats and dogs are concerned, and very often cause

:07:52. > :07:57.injuries and they can be led pallets which lead to the injuries. The

:07:58. > :08:02.broader point, we need to get much more into schools and more into

:08:03. > :08:05.education to make sure that people know how to look after an animal,

:08:06. > :08:10.because most people do know how to look after animals but there are

:08:11. > :08:14.some families where there is cruelty going on and maybe those children

:08:15. > :08:18.don't know any thing else but what is happening in that home. That is

:08:19. > :08:25.what we have got to try and tackle as well. I know he has taken a

:08:26. > :08:28.grated of intervention and I declare my interest as someone who not only

:08:29. > :08:35.cares about animals and has prosecuted cases in the courts --

:08:36. > :08:40.taken a great deal of intervention. The matter goes a bit further, with

:08:41. > :08:45.a view to the deterrence, that members have referred to. Whilst

:08:46. > :08:51.these offences are recorded on the police national computer, that is

:08:52. > :08:54.not a very accessible way and a national register which is easier to

:08:55. > :08:57.consult would go quite some way to making sure that people who have

:08:58. > :09:04.mistreated animals on one occasion and been convicted cannot do so

:09:05. > :09:06.again. You make a very good point. A national register is good and I

:09:07. > :09:11.would like to see it go further because in the United States they do

:09:12. > :09:15.work on linking animal cruelty to the cruelty within the home with

:09:16. > :09:20.human cruelty and I think the two need to be linked much more. It

:09:21. > :09:27.doesn't take long in many respects from treating an animal badly to

:09:28. > :09:34.start beating people up and we have got to wake up to that situation. On

:09:35. > :09:37.that note I applaud him for bringing this debate here today, and he is

:09:38. > :09:43.touching on a very moot point in that there are stark statistics to

:09:44. > :09:51.prove that abusive humans often takes place after people have abused

:09:52. > :09:54.animals or indeed at the same time and I think register would be very

:09:55. > :10:06.beneficial in helping to tackle a much bigger problem that we are

:10:07. > :10:09.facing socially. I thank my friend and neighbour, and she makes the

:10:10. > :10:14.point about getting that link and I also think that we should be able to

:10:15. > :10:19.link much more when we are finding cruelty to animals, to actually

:10:20. > :10:24.investigate what is going on in those particular homes, as well, to

:10:25. > :10:28.see if there is much more going on than just animal cruelty, and that

:10:29. > :10:32.is something that we really have... We have got to open our eyes to what

:10:33. > :10:37.is happening. Most people looked after animals very well, but those

:10:38. > :10:42.that don't can be incredibly cruel, and those are the ones that we need

:10:43. > :10:45.to really tackle. I was disappointed the government rejected the

:10:46. > :10:53.recommendation for a higher maximum sentence of five years and again I

:10:54. > :10:56.would ask the ministers to go back to the government and the justice

:10:57. > :11:03.department to see we can get this increased because I think six months

:11:04. > :11:07.is too low. I will give way. I wondered if he has had a

:11:08. > :11:12.conversation with the government whips, because the second reading of

:11:13. > :11:15.my built an place and it was objected to by the government whips,

:11:16. > :11:20.but that would have increased the sentencing to five years. I have

:11:21. > :11:28.spoken to whips, but whether they listen is another matter, of course.

:11:29. > :11:31.I'm sure they do. LAUGHTER I'm absolutely certain they are

:11:32. > :11:36.listening to every word I say, but you make a very serious point, it is

:11:37. > :11:39.not good to talk out bills where there is a legitimate reason for

:11:40. > :11:47.actually increasing the sentence will -- and if we took a straw poll

:11:48. > :11:50.of the MPs in this House, irrespective of party, the vast

:11:51. > :11:54.majority would say that the sentencing is too low. We have got

:11:55. > :11:59.to find a method of increasing that and I accept the government wanted

:12:00. > :12:03.to come back with other ideas and I'm happy to listen to them. It must

:12:04. > :12:14.be much more than the six months which is there now. I will give way.

:12:15. > :12:20.Can I congratulate him on securing this debate. One of the other things

:12:21. > :12:25.which we need to do, we need to make sure that children understand in

:12:26. > :12:30.schools as to the impact that actually treating animals badly will

:12:31. > :12:39.actually have and the problems with that, as well. Yes, what we can do

:12:40. > :12:43.in our schools, and help educate young people about the way to treat

:12:44. > :12:48.animals and not to treat them cruelly, is absolutely the right way

:12:49. > :12:53.forward. I have been told that I've only got 15 minutes so I should get

:12:54. > :13:02.on with it. I will try and make a little progress. The average

:13:03. > :13:08.sentencing for animal cruelty is relatively stable, but I rather fear

:13:09. > :13:12.this is a copout. Judges should have the flexibility to give longer

:13:13. > :13:17.sentences for the worst examples of animal cruelty as a well deserved

:13:18. > :13:21.punishment and as a deterrent to other potential abusers, and if you

:13:22. > :13:25.can seriously injure a sentience being like a dog and cat you can do

:13:26. > :13:29.the same to a human and there's a growing body evidence suggesting a

:13:30. > :13:33.link between the abuse of animals and violence against people. In the

:13:34. > :13:38.United States the FBI have begun tackling instances of animal abuse

:13:39. > :13:45.as part of a national instant based reporting system which corrects date

:13:46. > :13:52.on crime -- incident. The committee has recommended a new abuse register

:13:53. > :13:54.that should be established that those convicted of animal abuse

:13:55. > :13:59.offences, and those convicted of cruelty should never be allowed to

:14:00. > :14:02.keep animals again. The police should have the access to these

:14:03. > :14:09.files in the light of links between animal and human abuse. It went on

:14:10. > :14:16.to talk again about the sentencing and to third-party sales as far as

:14:17. > :14:19.puppies are concerned. I believe that a ban on third-party sales will

:14:20. > :14:24.improve the condition of dogs sold in the UK will stop it is the case

:14:25. > :14:29.that on scribblers dealers will go to some lengths to pose as

:14:30. > :14:36.responsible breeders in order to sell animals to an unsuspecting

:14:37. > :14:39.buyer -- unsuspecting dealers. Many dealers will offer homes as a

:14:40. > :14:42.reassurance to potential buyers setting up a false home which is

:14:43. > :14:47.then vacated as soon as they cannot be traced. The sad reality is that

:14:48. > :14:53.anyone selling puppies indirectly through a licensed pet shop has no

:14:54. > :14:56.regard for the welfare of their puppies, and are responsible breeder

:14:57. > :15:03.would never sell through a pet shop licence holder -- a responsible. It

:15:04. > :15:13.has a negative impact on the welfare of puppies. The government is

:15:14. > :15:16.contradicting its own advice. By banning third-party sales the public

:15:17. > :15:23.will buy from breeders directly and this will allow buyers to access the

:15:24. > :15:27.premises for themselves, driving up animal welfare sentences. We visited

:15:28. > :15:32.a puppy farm in Wales and the conditions were not good to say the

:15:33. > :15:39.very least. If you had to go there to get your puppy venue would soon

:15:40. > :15:43.do something about it -- then you. People producing as puppies were

:15:44. > :15:46.getting ?200 and the dealers in Birmingham were selling them for

:15:47. > :15:52.maybe ?1000, and so there is a real problem. I'm extremely disappointed

:15:53. > :15:56.that the government rejected the ban on third-party sales since the

:15:57. > :15:59.committee published its report, many more animal organisations have come

:16:00. > :16:05.out in favour of a ban on third-party sales will stop the

:16:06. > :16:14.RSPCA has recently changed its mind on this issue. In February the

:16:15. > :16:18.government announced a tougher new breeding licensing role, making it

:16:19. > :16:26.completely illegal to sell puppies younger than eight weeks -- rule. It

:16:27. > :16:32.is a good start but it doesn't go far enough. Aside from increasing

:16:33. > :16:36.the maximum sentence and a ban if their body size, the government

:16:37. > :16:45.should consider a reduction in the threshold of eyes and seeing to two

:16:46. > :16:50.litters a year the threshold of licensing. It is too easy for

:16:51. > :16:56.unscrupulous dealers to fall outside the regulatory regime. A new abuse

:16:57. > :17:02.register should also be established for those convicted of animal abuse

:17:03. > :17:07.offences. I've also personally of the belief that government should

:17:08. > :17:12.look at dog breeders and cat breeders which are not currently

:17:13. > :17:16.licensed adult. Britain is a nation of animal lovers, our pets deserve

:17:17. > :17:22.nothing less than the very highest animal welfare standards, and I look

:17:23. > :17:24.forward to strong representations from all of my colleagues and

:17:25. > :17:36.especially those that have intervened on me. Thank you very

:17:37. > :17:40.much. The question is on the order paper... And if people take eight

:17:41. > :17:43.minutes and no more, then everybody will get in and that also divides

:17:44. > :17:48.the next debate for eight minutes, as well. If we can stick to the

:17:49. > :17:53.informal limit of eight minutes that will be fantastic. I'm pleased to

:17:54. > :18:00.contribute to this debate and I hope to get inside your eight minute

:18:01. > :18:05.rule. I'm delighted to follow the gentleman from Tiverton who chairs

:18:06. > :18:09.the select committee with distinction, and his time spent in

:18:10. > :18:13.the European Parliament was not a wasted apprenticeship and he

:18:14. > :18:23.demonstrates those skills every time that we meet. There are three main

:18:24. > :18:25.issues, penalty for animal welfare offences, the ban on third-party

:18:26. > :18:30.sales, and the question of prosecutions. I want to register my

:18:31. > :18:37.appreciation for the briefings I've received in preparing for this

:18:38. > :18:39.debate from Pat -- Battersea dogs home, the kennel club and the House

:18:40. > :18:46.of Commons library. In front. Does he agree that with

:18:47. > :19:02.better licensing, breeders can become more integrated

:19:03. > :19:05.and stop the cruel practice puppy farming?

:19:06. > :19:10.Will come onto licensing of the late as well. It is certainly a key

:19:11. > :19:13.element of the select committee report, which we are looking for the

:19:14. > :19:17.government to respond to more positively. But as I was saying, I

:19:18. > :19:21.am always happy when constituents contact me on a whole range of

:19:22. > :19:25.animal welfare issues. It shows that among the many concerns they

:19:26. > :19:29.articulate, animal welfare matters a great deal to them. Members will

:19:30. > :19:33.receive e-mails and the occasional letter on the same animal related

:19:34. > :19:38.issues as myself. These, badgers, domestic bouts, circus animals,

:19:39. > :19:41.while animals, dogfighting and so on. Whilst it is good to see how

:19:42. > :19:44.much they care, it is obviously disappointing and distressing that

:19:45. > :19:53.these issues, these activities, these abuses continue. Along with

:19:54. > :19:59.the suspension by the previous member, I have backed an amendment

:20:00. > :20:03.calling for people that were tougher punishments for people who abuse

:20:04. > :20:07.animals. I was pleased to attend the launch here at Westminster and

:20:08. > :20:10.pledge my support to increase sentences for animal abusers. It is

:20:11. > :20:15.unacceptable that people can abuse animals and get away with such a

:20:16. > :20:20.small penalty. Battersea's research shows England and the Arbeloa

:20:21. > :20:22.sentences for cruelty across 100 countries and states worldwide.

:20:23. > :20:25.months' imprisonment is neither a months' imprisonment is neither a

:20:26. > :20:29.punishment nor a deterrent when it comes to some of the most serious

:20:30. > :20:33.offences. For the background of the debate -- further background comes

:20:34. > :20:39.from the report on animal welfare, as mentioned, and I nearly called on

:20:40. > :20:43.that so often, it is almost pass . that so often, it is almost pass .

:20:44. > :20:46.It raises a number of recommendations such as the

:20:47. > :20:50.timetable for the tenth yearly review of the animal welfare act.

:20:51. > :20:55.I'm sure the minister will respond to that in due course. The ban on

:20:56. > :20:59.third-party puppy sales and for local government to be responsible

:21:00. > :21:03.for the enforcement of the Animal Welfare Act. It also went on to

:21:04. > :21:10.discuss the role of the RSPCA, who historically undertake the

:21:11. > :21:13.overwhelming number of animal welfare prosecutions and

:21:14. > :21:17.investigations. It is recommended that they should continue this

:21:18. > :21:22.important work investigating animal welfare cases. It should, however,

:21:23. > :21:26.ripped withdrawal from acting as prosecutor of first resort where

:21:27. > :21:29.there are statutory bodies with the duty to carry out this role. I think

:21:30. > :21:34.a number of said at the time it wasn't for the select committee to

:21:35. > :21:37.require the RSPCA to withdraw, because they will always have the

:21:38. > :21:42.right to raise private prosecutions in the same way as any other

:21:43. > :21:47.citizen. The real question is about the word "Duty" of the other bodies,

:21:48. > :21:54.as mentioned in the recommendation from the report. And which statutory

:21:55. > :21:57.bodies should be responsible. Like most select committees, the vast

:21:58. > :22:01.majority of our work is done by consensus, but this is one of very

:22:02. > :22:06.few issues that has split the committee. The majority view was one

:22:07. > :22:09.which I voted against, not on the principle, but on the

:22:10. > :22:13.practicalities. My view was, the expectation that the Crown

:22:14. > :22:17.Prosecution Service or local authorities would step in as

:22:18. > :22:21.prosecutors with no respect to the colleagues who voted for it is pure

:22:22. > :22:24.fantasy. However, on reading this and looking at what happens in

:22:25. > :22:29.Scotland, my honourable friend, who sits on the committee by the SNP,

:22:30. > :22:34.made a number of important points in this regard. I am persuaded on one

:22:35. > :22:37.thing: Society serious about animal welfare, it should access to its

:22:38. > :22:46.responsibilities. It is not fair that the RSPCA shouldn't have to do

:22:47. > :22:54.society's work for it. The message that the society, through the CPS

:22:55. > :22:58.and police will prosecute, should be the one that we send, and that we

:22:59. > :23:03.should not have to rely on the RSPCA. But as I say, that will not

:23:04. > :23:06.happen any time soon, so the RSPCA have got to continue regardless of

:23:07. > :23:10.what the select committee says, because they have the only option to

:23:11. > :23:14.do it. Note the art is going to do it. I am happy to give way to my

:23:15. > :23:16.other honourable friend from the select committee.

:23:17. > :23:25.I thank my honourable friend from across the divide forgiving way. --

:23:26. > :23:29.for giving way. Can is asking, and I was in the same committee taking

:23:30. > :23:33.evidence, we found it works particularly well in Scotland. It is

:23:34. > :23:37.not often I praise the SNP and the way the Scottish run their affairs,

:23:38. > :23:41.but they run well, and therefore wider use think we cannot do it as

:23:42. > :23:45.well on the side of the border? Well, with my classic cockney

:23:46. > :23:47.accent, you'll forgive me if I do not join in praise of the Scottish

:23:48. > :24:02.National Party Party(! . There is one that the Procurator

:24:03. > :24:07.Fiscal's office undertakes. They are not going to do it, they didn't have

:24:08. > :24:11.the RSPCA, it would not get done. I the RSPCA, it would not get done. I

:24:12. > :24:15.support their ability to continue, and until such time as the local

:24:16. > :24:20.authorities get the wherewithal to do the job, it won't be done other

:24:21. > :24:23.than the RSPCA doing it. I support them continuing. I am happy to give

:24:24. > :24:28.way. I'm grateful to my honourable

:24:29. > :24:32.friend, and congratulate the member for securing this debate. I would

:24:33. > :24:38.like to give one very bad example from my own constituency. There are

:24:39. > :24:46.quite a lot of animal welfare issues which occurred there. This is one

:24:47. > :24:51.where young fox had a habit of going to the large supermarket every night

:24:52. > :24:57.to hunt for food. The fox was got hold of by a gang of boys from my

:24:58. > :25:03.own constituency. They got it by the tail, hurled it round and round and

:25:04. > :25:09.round, smashed its head against the wall several times and then stamped

:25:10. > :25:14.on its head. In the punishment for that, well, it was hardly punishment

:25:15. > :25:19.at all. So I think it is absolutely necessary to increase the penalties

:25:20. > :25:24.for people who impose their code of cruelty on animals.

:25:25. > :25:28.My right honourable friend makes the point as emphatically as possible,

:25:29. > :25:32.but the penalties do not fit the crime, and as mentioned by the

:25:33. > :25:34.honourable mover of the motion, this needs an urgent review.

:25:35. > :25:39.As I was saying about the heiress PCA, and my apologies, I will be

:25:40. > :25:46.over the eight minutes, but hopefully only by 1.5 minutes -- the

:25:47. > :25:50.RSPCA, with 15% of calls to their helpline being appreciated, there is

:25:51. > :25:53.too much work to expect the prosecutorial authorities to except

:25:54. > :25:54.responsibility. Then there is the question of third-party sales are

:25:55. > :26:01.puppies. And also, the animal puppies. And also, the animal

:26:02. > :26:06.welfare organisations. Dogs Trust and Blue Cross were against the ban.

:26:07. > :26:15.The kennel club supported it. There is no question about the issue, just

:26:16. > :26:18.the tools to protect the vendor and the purchaser. I look forward to the

:26:19. > :26:24.Secretary of State's views on this difference of opinion, and on the

:26:25. > :26:27.proposed ban and how Britain expects progress on this important issue.

:26:28. > :26:33.The minister knows he is held in high regard by animal welfare rises

:26:34. > :26:37.and, even though that is not his primary responsibility. The answers

:26:38. > :26:41.to the comments for that role. There is no disagreement about wanting

:26:42. > :26:45.better animal welfare. The key challenges are how to deliver it. I

:26:46. > :26:49.have confidence the minister and his colleagues, encouraged by my

:26:50. > :26:52.honourable friend, led by my honourable friend from Watlington on

:26:53. > :26:57.the opposition front bench, that the minister will continue to be as

:26:58. > :27:01.effective in this area as he can be, and I'm grateful to have the

:27:02. > :27:06.opportunity to send this to you. What a relief it is that we are

:27:07. > :27:09.discussing something other than bus leaving the European Union. I am

:27:10. > :27:17.listening to that. -- something listening to that. -- something

:27:18. > :27:20.other than us leaving. I judge the standard of every civilisation by

:27:21. > :27:23.how we treat animals and animal welfare generally, and ever since I

:27:24. > :27:26.entered the house, I have been involved in animal welfare matters.

:27:27. > :27:31.Many of these arguments and issues I am listening to, I have heard

:27:32. > :27:36.before. Indeed, I recall when David Mellor was a member of this place,

:27:37. > :27:40.serving on the bill to amend the 1911 Animals Act, looking back on

:27:41. > :27:43.the different things we have done, two pieces of legislation I managed

:27:44. > :27:49.to get on the statute book, I think, by and large, this country has a

:27:50. > :27:51.good record in terms of animal welfare, although obviously, the

:27:52. > :27:57.incident that The Right Honourable lady just shared with the house

:27:58. > :28:02.absolutely awful, and no words can describe the horror. But I think we

:28:03. > :28:05.are going to have a debate where we all agree. I doubt anyone will stand

:28:06. > :28:10.up and say, let's be cruel to animals. So we all agree. And I

:28:11. > :28:17.generally say to my honourable friend who opened the debate, I have

:28:18. > :28:24.seen many reports produced by this place. Some gather dust, some are

:28:25. > :28:28.acted on, some completely ignored. But obviously, parliaments change,

:28:29. > :28:31.new members and, so it is as if we are raising these issues were the

:28:32. > :28:35.first time. But there are 12-macro things that have changed. But

:28:36. > :28:40.absolutely, my honourable friend is absolutely right that we need

:28:41. > :28:45.tougher sentences. Whether or not our prisons can take the people,

:28:46. > :28:49.whether, as my honourable friend who intervened earlier, we need more

:28:50. > :28:54.publicity when people are sentenced, I don't know, but I absolutely agree

:28:55. > :29:02.with that. The thing that has changed is, of course, online sales.

:29:03. > :29:09.And certainly, this is a new challenge that we face, and there is

:29:10. > :29:12.politics in everything, and there is certainly politics in the animal

:29:13. > :29:18.world. So I have received all sorts of e-mails mentioning this

:29:19. > :29:21.organisation, praising this and that person, and I'm not sure we are all

:29:22. > :29:26.singing the same song. So I will just raised two ladies. Lorraine

:29:27. > :29:30.Platt who runs the animal welfare organisation which I support. And

:29:31. > :29:35.she has done a fantastic job as far as I'm concerned as an individual.

:29:36. > :29:39.And the Countess of Stockton who is a trustee of the RSPCA, and I leave

:29:40. > :29:45.it to other members to decide which organisations they are going to

:29:46. > :29:48.praise. But online sales is a very, very big issue, and it has been said

:29:49. > :29:54.already, the idea that you should buy a puppy and not see where it

:29:55. > :30:01.comes from, how it has been looked after and all of that,... And

:30:02. > :30:23.Widdicombe bought for my youngest child a black labrador

:30:24. > :30:30.pedigree. As we all know, strong bell with small things look cute and

:30:31. > :30:32.cuddly, when they grow up, there is a lot of responsibility in looking

:30:33. > :30:39.after a pet. Will he give way?

:30:40. > :30:44.According to my information, about one third of people don't see the

:30:45. > :30:49.mother when they pick up a puppy at the moment.

:30:50. > :30:53.My honourable friend is right, and that is lamentable, but I say to my

:30:54. > :30:56.honourable friend who opened the debate, how we can put that right, I

:30:57. > :31:03.don't know. We just have to keep on and on with the same message. The

:31:04. > :31:10.project has been monitoring sales of animals on sites such as Gumtree.

:31:11. > :31:15.Their findings indicate clear need for action on this issue. Despite

:31:16. > :31:20.the figures I'm about to quote, Gumtree should be lauded for doing

:31:21. > :31:23.more than any other sites to monitor online sales and comply with the

:31:24. > :31:28.patent advisory group minimum standards. But over a 12 month

:31:29. > :31:34.period ending this February, Gumtree UK adverts were monitored, and there

:31:35. > :31:40.adverts, related to the sale of adverts, related to the sale of

:31:41. > :31:46.animals being tracked. 58% of these were related to dogs. Estimates of

:31:47. > :31:51.as many as 88% of dark spawning Great Britain are bred by unlicensed

:31:52. > :31:56.report states in paragraph 95, which report states in paragraph 95, which

:31:57. > :32:01.I have read, that Gumtree's listings of pets for sale has decreased from

:32:02. > :32:05.50,000 to 15,000, and that should absolutely be welcomed. I say to the

:32:06. > :32:09.minister, my goodness, I have seen all sorts of people as ministers.

:32:10. > :32:13.Some do the job brilliantly, some need a little bit of convincing as

:32:14. > :32:18.to how dedicated they are about animal welfare. But I do think that

:32:19. > :32:23.as far as this particular minister is concerned, I am convinced he is

:32:24. > :32:30.absolutely genuine about this issue and that he will react in a positive

:32:31. > :32:36.way to the report. We do need some websites to commit to following at

:32:37. > :32:42.least the minimum standards of PA AG, and that all the adverts display

:32:43. > :32:45.the age of the animal advertised. That is very important. Although the

:32:46. > :32:48.vast majority of the public state that they would not buy a puppy from

:32:49. > :32:51.a commercially driven breeder, my honourable friend is absolutely

:32:52. > :32:59.right about the point he made about the very small number who would. I

:33:00. > :33:02.welcome DEFRA's announcement that it would be a legal requirement for

:33:03. > :33:06.sellers to display their licence number on all adverts, but their

:33:07. > :33:08.roster problems with ensuring that licenses are properly granted that

:33:09. > :33:12.the local authorities have the resources to adequately excess and

:33:13. > :33:15.applicant Fred licence. Local authorities are currently in charge

:33:16. > :33:19.of licensing, but the scale of illegal trading is extremely

:33:20. > :33:24.difficult for local authorities to tackle, as they lack the resources

:33:25. > :33:28.to monitor the enormous body of sales taking place online. Indeed,

:33:29. > :33:34.they are unable to monitor the trade off-line or provide qualified

:33:35. > :33:38.individuals to assess welfare needs. In line with the stricter licensing

:33:39. > :33:42.regime, they have to be the professionals who are able to

:33:43. > :33:45.adequately determine if a licence should be granted. Unfortunately, at

:33:46. > :33:48.officials to inspect places where officials to inspect places where

:33:49. > :33:52.animals are sold and not necessarily trained specifically in detecting

:33:53. > :33:55.animal welfare issues. Individuals are buying these animals and are not

:33:56. > :34:01.aware that the sellers should be licensed, a very important matter.

:34:02. > :34:03.And if I end with these remarks: Transparency and public education

:34:04. > :34:06.are incredibly important. That should be the message from this

:34:07. > :34:09.house. Responsible pet ownership, house. Responsible pet ownership,

:34:10. > :34:16.and I have to tell the house, sometime in July, we are holding a

:34:17. > :34:23.responsible pet ownership competition by the green at the

:34:24. > :34:26.other end of the building. I hope all honourable members, if

:34:27. > :34:28.interested, join us in these celebrations of being responsible as

:34:29. > :34:37.a pet owner. Income from online sales is rarely

:34:38. > :34:43.declared, and there's a lot of money lost in income tax and this should

:34:44. > :34:47.be a significant concern to HMRC and the single most expensive dog

:34:48. > :34:53.advertised was a French bulldog. Posted by a London based server for

:34:54. > :35:02.?30,000 and this was just last month. -- seller. This is big money.

:35:03. > :35:07.Even when inspections are carried out, research shows how the quality

:35:08. > :35:10.of the investigations varied massively from local authority to

:35:11. > :35:14.local authority, standardised inspection criteria should help make

:35:15. > :35:18.sure that basic animal welfare is made across the country and so I do

:35:19. > :35:22.congratulate my honourable friend and his hard-working committee on

:35:23. > :35:30.producing this report and I hope it won't gather dust. I hope it will be

:35:31. > :35:36.acted on. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to speak in this debate

:35:37. > :35:42.and I would like to congratulate the vulnerable for securing this debate

:35:43. > :35:47.-- honourable member for securing this debate. My private members bill

:35:48. > :35:52.was specifically on this issue and I was disappointed not to even have a

:35:53. > :35:56.debate on the 24th of February when I bought for a second reading and

:35:57. > :36:01.also disappointed when it was objected to in the dying seconds by

:36:02. > :36:04.the Conservative whips. We owe a change in the law to those that

:36:05. > :36:08.cannot speak, that can't defend themselves, that suffer abuse and

:36:09. > :36:11.violence and cruelty by the hands that are meant to feed them and care

:36:12. > :36:16.for them and protect them and love them. I brought this on behalf of

:36:17. > :36:21.baby the bulldog and scampi dog, baby was aloft by Andrew Frank at

:36:22. > :36:24.the top of stairs before he threw her down them and laugh, and her

:36:25. > :36:28.neck was stamped on and she was thrown to the floor with balls over

:36:29. > :36:33.and over and her small chest was jumped on. The younger man says,

:36:34. > :36:42.since we can make it scream any more, we should throw it down the

:36:43. > :36:45.stairs twice. Baby was tortured and beaten by those who were supposed to

:36:46. > :36:50.care for her, the whole horrible ordeal seems to be for the brothers

:36:51. > :36:54.entertainment, for fun, as they filmed themselves laughing on a

:36:55. > :36:57.mobile phone. Baby should not have suffered this abuse, but she did and

:36:58. > :37:01.was put down shortly after the incident took place. With the

:37:02. > :37:06.evidence was found by chance two years later on a mobile card you

:37:07. > :37:11.would have expected that the dog would have had justice, and banks to

:37:12. > :37:12.the hard work of the police and the RSPCA the brothers were convicted of

:37:13. > :37:20.causing unnecessary suffering -- thanks. But she was then let once

:37:21. > :37:26.again by the law. The brothers received a suspended sentence six

:37:27. > :37:30.months and ?300 in costs and no monk and feel that the justice system it

:37:31. > :37:38.did its job on that day. -- no one can feel. I was astonished to find

:37:39. > :37:42.that the maximum sentence for any form of animal abuse is just six

:37:43. > :37:52.months custody. Incredibly it has not changed since the projection of

:37:53. > :37:57.animals act in 1911, the law is lacking a century behind. The issue

:37:58. > :38:03.was meant to be dealt with by the animal welfare act of 2006 by the

:38:04. > :38:06.last Labour government. But incredibly the provision was never

:38:07. > :38:09.in acted and so people can inflict any degree of cruelty on animals and

:38:10. > :38:13.still only receive a maximum of six months in prison, the public rightly

:38:14. > :38:19.find that hard to understand or accept. Since the incident of these

:38:20. > :38:22.brothers came to my attention I tried to amend the law to make sure

:38:23. > :38:26.that sentences fit the crime in cases like this and was pleased to

:38:27. > :38:30.present my animal sentencing bill, but another horrific incident took

:38:31. > :38:34.place in my constituency which has made the case for change even more

:38:35. > :38:42.pressing. The small dog was found buried alive in a woods on the 9th

:38:43. > :38:49.of October with a nail buried into it said. Two people pleaded guilty,

:38:50. > :38:52.but they were sentenced to just four months meaning they would probably

:38:53. > :38:58.serve just eight weeks in prison -- buried into its head. The people of

:38:59. > :39:01.my constituency have been horrified by these cases and it's important

:39:02. > :39:05.for me to pay tribute to their response. After hearing of the

:39:06. > :39:09.incident of the brothers and the other incident, they had the jewels

:39:10. > :39:19.to the animals with hundreds of people -- they had the vigils to the

:39:20. > :39:23.animals with hundreds of people turning out with flowers and

:39:24. > :39:28.candles. I meet many wonderful dog owners as I walk my dog, but my

:39:29. > :39:31.constituents are angry and they feel that the criminal justice system is

:39:32. > :39:35.letting them down and that is why I'm standing here today. I was

:39:36. > :39:39.shocked by the number of horrific cases I came across when I was doing

:39:40. > :39:44.my research and I read of dismembered cats left on a war

:39:45. > :39:50.memorial and 20 ducks strangled, boiling water poured on a puppy, a

:39:51. > :39:56.Shetland pony which was mutilated. Sorry police tried to find a person

:39:57. > :40:00.who was believed to be the theft -- recently sorry police tried to find

:40:01. > :40:11.a person who was believed to be behind the theft and mutilation of

:40:12. > :40:14.20 cats. -- Surrey Police. Yet only one in ten convictions presently

:40:15. > :40:17.results in a prison sentence and we do not treat these crimes with the

:40:18. > :40:28.weight they warrant. I urge those who think the crime of abusing

:40:29. > :40:34.defenceless animals to have a look at this report.

:40:35. > :40:39.It found that in families under supervision for the physical abuse

:40:40. > :40:46.of their children, pet abuse was concurrent in 88% of the families

:40:47. > :40:49.and in the UK new academic study by researchers at Teesside University

:40:50. > :40:51.has also identified a link between animal abuse and domestic violence

:40:52. > :40:57.and the study of young people in Eastern Europe found that violence

:40:58. > :41:06.breeds violence. Adolescent males who have either experienced violence

:41:07. > :41:12.or showed displaced violence towards animals or towards family members,

:41:13. > :41:19.and a lack of empathy to their victims, and abuse of family members

:41:20. > :41:22.often goes hand in hand, they are reacting with frustration and

:41:23. > :41:28.violence, which is directed at the only individual more vulnerable than

:41:29. > :41:32.they are, and animal. It points to a worrying cycle of abuse which can

:41:33. > :41:37.continue if it is not properly addressed -- an animal. You would be

:41:38. > :41:41.forgiven for thinking that as a nation of animal lovers we would

:41:42. > :41:44.expect to be leading the way on these issues, but I'm afraid to say

:41:45. > :41:48.we are lagging behind many other countries. The Northern Ireland

:41:49. > :41:52.assembly increase the maximum penalty to five years and it should

:41:53. > :41:55.be noted that they are the only part of the UK that provides a more

:41:56. > :41:59.serious animal welfare offences to be tried in a Crown Court. The

:42:00. > :42:03.Scottish Government has committed to reviewing penalties under the animal

:42:04. > :42:07.health act and if we look around the world we can see that the maximum

:42:08. > :42:08.penalty for animal Kulti in Australia is five years, Germany,

:42:09. > :42:13.three years, but a maximum of six three years, but a maximum of six

:42:14. > :42:18.months here in England and Wales -- animal cruelty. Such woefully

:42:19. > :42:21.inadequate sentences must be addressed if they are to be

:42:22. > :42:27.punishments which fit the cruelty inflicted on animals. I seek to

:42:28. > :42:32.increase the custodial sentence from six months to five years, and it's

:42:33. > :42:43.about time that we showed our reputation as animal lovers by

:42:44. > :42:48.taking this seriously. I would like to thank the support of many bodies

:42:49. > :42:51.and also my constituents who have responded to my efforts to change

:42:52. > :42:57.the law and I would also like to pay tribute to the committee for their

:42:58. > :43:02.work on this report. I would like to say a word on the two dogs that I

:43:03. > :43:07.mentioned, we will probably know the level of cruelty and torture that

:43:08. > :43:10.these silent and defenceless animals suffered and we can only begin to

:43:11. > :43:13.imagine what they felt, but we can't and do the suffering that was done

:43:14. > :43:17.to them, but we can show each other that this kind of cruelty has no

:43:18. > :43:21.place in our communities and that such depraved behaviour will face to

:43:22. > :43:25.punishment that it deserves, and I welcome today's debate and I urge

:43:26. > :43:38.the government to change the law on animal cruelty sentencing. I would

:43:39. > :43:41.like to thank the backbench committee and my honourable friends

:43:42. > :43:44.and the select committee for putting animal welfare on the agenda in

:43:45. > :43:50.Parliament this morning. I found it quite distressing to listen to the

:43:51. > :43:57.examples we've heard of brutal animal cruelty, especially by the

:43:58. > :44:04.Honourable lady we just heard. I would emphasise, animal welfare and

:44:05. > :44:09.action to prevent animal cruelty is a very high priority for many of my

:44:10. > :44:14.constituents in Chipping Barnet. They contact me about this on a

:44:15. > :44:20.regular basis. I would like to warmly and strongly support the

:44:21. > :44:25.campaign for stiffer maximum sentences for those who abuse

:44:26. > :44:30.animals and act with unnecessary cruelty or otherwise fail to comply

:44:31. > :44:37.with our animal welfare rolls in this country. And in the few minute

:44:38. > :44:42.I have here, I would like to focus on the welfare of farm animals

:44:43. > :44:46.because I feel very strongly that all of us who take animal welfare

:44:47. > :44:49.matters seriously should have a focus on the billions of animals

:44:50. > :44:56.used in agriculture across the world. And everyone at to make sure

:44:57. > :44:59.that as a civilised society we are maintaining high standards of animal

:45:00. > :45:05.welfare it is important that we extend this to farm animals -- and I

:45:06. > :45:08.would like to make sure. I would like to thank Peter Stephenson for

:45:09. > :45:14.providing me with some help preparing for this debate. My

:45:15. > :45:20.honourable friend who was here moment ago, he said he was sick of

:45:21. > :45:24.talking about Brexit, but Brexit does have relevance today, because

:45:25. > :45:29.80% of our animal welfare rolls are part of EU law, and leaving that

:45:30. > :45:36.will give us control over many policy decisions on animal welfare

:45:37. > :45:40.and farming. And as I said, when I have the opportunity to raise this,

:45:41. > :45:44.we should use Brexit to reaffirm our support for the highest standards of

:45:45. > :45:49.animal welfare. We should also use it as an opportunity to see how we

:45:50. > :45:52.can strengthen protection for animals and of course the food and

:45:53. > :45:58.farming sector is one of the most important parts of our economy

:45:59. > :46:03.supporting many thousands of jobs. I welcome the fact that last October

:46:04. > :46:07.the Defra Secretary of State said high standards of animal welfare

:46:08. > :46:11.should be one of the selling points of UK produced food in the post

:46:12. > :46:16.Brexit era. I welcome that, and if that is to be a reality in post

:46:17. > :46:21.Brexit farming, we need to make sure that animal welfare is the heart of

:46:22. > :46:26.our new system of farm payment support. It is crucial that we

:46:27. > :46:29.maintain that financial support for agriculture if we are to make sure

:46:30. > :46:34.that food produced in accordance with high animal welfare standards

:46:35. > :46:38.isn't priced out of the market by cheaper and less compassionate

:46:39. > :46:43.alternatives. And in future trade talks we should be prepared to ask

:46:44. > :46:47.those countries who wish to sell into our market to commit to accept

:46:48. > :46:52.double standards of animal welfare. As emphasised in the manifesto on

:46:53. > :46:59.which we on this side of the House were elected, and it is my

:47:00. > :47:05.understanding that WTO will allow us to do this as long as we apply the

:47:06. > :47:10.same rules, so compassionate treatment of animals should be at

:47:11. > :47:15.the heart of the post Brexit ran for food and farming we should recognise

:47:16. > :47:19.the efforts made by UK farmers already the majority of which take

:47:20. > :47:26.animal welfare seriously -- brand. We should reward farmers who have

:47:27. > :47:32.high standards, through recognise schemes such as though run by the

:47:33. > :47:39.RSPCA or the passion led livestock Association and miniature provide

:47:40. > :47:47.incentives -- and we need to provide incentives, and in particular we

:47:48. > :47:51.should aim for a end to industrial systems which keep cattle indoors

:47:52. > :47:53.all year round, and are not capable of delivering high welfare

:47:54. > :47:57.standards, no matter how well managed. I welcome the

:47:58. > :48:02.acknowledgement of the minister in responding to my debate on this in

:48:03. > :48:05.Westminster Hall, and any farmer who has turned cattle out to grass in

:48:06. > :48:08.April and watch their reaction knows that cattle preferred grazing, all

:48:09. > :48:17.other things being equal. As part of our efforts to end this

:48:18. > :48:20.zero grazing practice, help the government will consider measures to

:48:21. > :48:24.enable consumers to make more informed choices about the milk they

:48:25. > :48:29.buy. At present, most milk other than organic is pooled together,

:48:30. > :48:34.making it impossible to distinguish intensively produced from pasture

:48:35. > :48:41.-based milk. We need to consider separation to enable farmers using

:48:42. > :48:45.good practices in pasture-based grazing to advertise this fact to

:48:46. > :48:48.consumers, as free range egg producers have.

:48:49. > :48:53.On that note, a small point, but I have recently had discussions with

:48:54. > :48:58.the minister about a By British Food button, when we are buying our food

:48:59. > :49:03.and the internet. How about some sort of guidance or button about

:49:04. > :49:07.standards and animal care as well? I think both of those are good

:49:08. > :49:12.ideas, and I hope the minister will respond when he sums up the debate.

:49:13. > :49:17.should discourage intensive farming should discourage intensive farming

:49:18. > :49:21.methods as antimicrobial resistance, and I know this is a matter the

:49:22. > :49:26.DEFRA select committee have looked carefully and two. Industrial style

:49:27. > :49:29.farming can lead to the overuse of antibiotics to fend off diseases and

:49:30. > :49:36.infection caused by keeping animals in unnatural and crowded, but that

:49:37. > :49:42.-- crowded conditions. Antimicrobials are often given to a

:49:43. > :49:46.whole herds of flocks of animals via food or water. Unless we draw a halt

:49:47. > :49:50.to the trend which sees antibiotics gradually less and less able to

:49:51. > :49:55.protect us, we could face a risk of a return to the situation of

:49:56. > :49:58.previous centuries, where such matters as childbirth, nonserious

:49:59. > :50:05.injuries and routine operations frequently gave rise to a risk of.

:50:06. > :50:11.-- a risk of death. This is a serious risk, and many will no doubt

:50:12. > :50:15.have listened to the harrowing Radio 4 drama Resistance, which was based

:50:16. > :50:20.on one of the worst case scenario speared by scientists. So it is

:50:21. > :50:25.necessary to find ways to reduce overall antibiotic use in farming,

:50:26. > :50:27.and our goal should be higher welfare farming, where animals

:50:28. > :50:30.kept healthy through good husbandry kept healthy through good husbandry

:50:31. > :50:36.practices rather than routine antibiotic use. And as we scrutinise

:50:37. > :50:39.the Great Repeal Bill and associated legislation, we will need to ensure

:50:40. > :50:42.currently vested in the EU bodies currently vested in the EU bodies

:50:43. > :50:48.are transferred to domestic alternatives. Here, I think I would

:50:49. > :50:52.echo one of the points made by a number of honourable members already

:50:53. > :50:56.today. Enforcement is absolutely crucial. There is no point in having

:50:57. > :51:01.rules on our statute book which are not properly enforced. And this has

:51:02. > :51:05.been a long-standing concern in relation to EU rules. I remember

:51:06. > :51:09.working with my honourable friend when we were both in the European

:51:10. > :51:13.Parliament to try to improve enforcement, but I think this debate

:51:14. > :51:22.is a good opportunity to emphasise that proper enforcement of rules on

:51:23. > :51:25.animal welfare and to prevent animal cruelty are vitally important to our

:51:26. > :51:30.constituents who care so much about this matter. An analysis by the Food

:51:31. > :51:35.Standards Authority indicated that the period between July 20 14th and

:51:36. > :51:38.Jim 2016, there were over 4000 serious breaches of animal welfare

:51:39. > :51:42.legislation relating to slaughter and transport to slaughter. We need

:51:43. > :51:48.to do better. In conclusion, I would urge the minister to consider an end

:51:49. > :51:53.to the export of live animals for slaughter overseas. I believe this

:51:54. > :51:57.trade would have been banned years ago if the decision had rested in

:51:58. > :52:00.Westminster rather than Brussels. Very soon, the referendum result

:52:01. > :52:04.means this house will have control over this decision once again, and I

:52:05. > :52:11.hope the government will press ahead with a plan to end this cruel trade.

:52:12. > :52:16.Thank you. Many thanks. I would like to begin by thanking

:52:17. > :52:18.the honourable member for Tiverton and Honington for an extensive

:52:19. > :52:21.speech, and also the backbench speech, and also the backbench

:52:22. > :52:28.business committee and the DEFRA committee for their work in bringing

:52:29. > :52:32.this debate to the house today. Animal welfare is an issue that I

:52:33. > :52:36.personally feel very strongly about. I have had rescue dogs and my family

:52:37. > :52:39.since childhood. It is also one believe there is overwhelming

:52:40. > :52:44.support from the public across the UK on, and also MPs, actually. You

:52:45. > :52:48.only have to go along to Westminster Dog Of The Year to know just how

:52:49. > :52:55.important animal welfare and particularly the welfare of puppies

:52:56. > :52:59.and dogs is to MPs too. I was very pleased last year to come in fourth

:53:00. > :53:02.dog, and we hope to top that this dog, and we hope to top that this

:53:03. > :53:12.year and move up the leadership board. Well done. Thank you! I would

:53:13. > :53:16.like to thank the organisations who have been in touch with me regarding

:53:17. > :53:21.this debate, including the League Against Cruel Sports, Kennel Club,

:53:22. > :53:26.Assess The Caa and Battersea, just to name a few of the organisations

:53:27. > :53:31.in this field. I would like to touch on a number of issues, including

:53:32. > :53:36.third-party puppy sales and sentencing in terms of animal

:53:37. > :53:41.cruelty. In terms of what is visible to the public, the sale of young

:53:42. > :53:44.dogs, I believe there is a real issue with puppies being sold in pet

:53:45. > :53:48.shops, and the sale of dogs in a pet shop gives the impression that they

:53:49. > :53:55.are commodities and I believe it does not afford them their status as

:53:56. > :53:59.man's best friend. It also doesn't give a clear message to the public,

:54:00. > :54:06.dog is for life. At shop puppies are dog is for life. At shop puppies are

:54:07. > :54:12.often removed from their parents too early, separated from their parents

:54:13. > :54:15.despite regulations, and some have been reared in puppy farms, which

:54:16. > :54:19.reports have exposed as an acceptable in terms of their welfare

:54:20. > :54:23.conditions. We know puppy farms do not foster good care, socialisation

:54:24. > :54:27.or attachment with mothers, and we know that those issues contribute to

:54:28. > :54:30.poor temperament and dogs and an increased likelihood of illness and

:54:31. > :54:35.disease. This is not good for the puppies, and it is certainly not

:54:36. > :54:39.good for the public. The High Street, in my view, is not the place

:54:40. > :54:44.to buy a puppy. Selling puppies on the high-street fosters puppy

:54:45. > :54:48.farming and puppy trafficking. It also leads to impulse purchases,

:54:49. > :54:52.where the household may not be best suited to the dark, nor the dog to

:54:53. > :54:57.the household, and that's a very poor start for all involved. Polling

:54:58. > :55:01.also indicates that 90% of the public do not wish to buy it be

:55:02. > :55:05.there has been reared on a puppy farm, but people are often doing so

:55:06. > :55:11.unknowingly when they buy on the High Street or from third-party

:55:12. > :55:15.breeders. So numerous recent reports on puppy farming indicate an

:55:16. > :55:19.overwhelming lack of care and concern for basic animal welfare.

:55:20. > :55:25.Mothers are used excessively as breeding machines for profit

:55:26. > :55:29.purposes, and then discarded or even killed when no longer of use. They

:55:30. > :55:33.are kept for their whole lives in cramped, unhygienic and horrendous

:55:34. > :55:38.conditions, which is simply isn't acceptable to the UK public. The

:55:39. > :55:43.journey of a puppy, I believe, should be tracked from birth by

:55:44. > :55:45.registration and micro-chipping. Distributable readers ignored

:55:46. > :55:50.guidelines, but often go unpunished, which only then reinforces their

:55:51. > :55:57.behaviours. Guidelines indicate that dogs should be no more than six

:55:58. > :56:00.times in their lifetime Brad, and the kennel club regulations no more

:56:01. > :56:05.than four times. The kennel club reports that one in five pups bought

:56:06. > :56:08.in pet shops needs veterinary care or dies before the age of five

:56:09. > :56:12.months old, so this is something that is not acceptable, either in

:56:13. > :56:18.terms of welfare of the puppies involve borrowing terms of thinking

:56:19. > :56:21.about the public and their rights in terms of buying puppies who have

:56:22. > :56:27.appropriately. I would request that appropriately. I would request that

:56:28. > :56:31.the minister consider we need a public awareness campaign, which may

:56:32. > :56:36.be coordinated across the UK, with devolved governments. It would

:56:37. > :56:39.outline how to recognise best practice in dog breeding and provide

:56:40. > :56:45.the public with guidelines on how and why to buy puppies reputable it.

:56:46. > :56:49.We are looking for leadership in this area directly from governments,

:56:50. > :56:50.indicated, a third of people indicated, a third of people

:56:51. > :56:57.currently don't see the mother when currently don't see the mother when

:56:58. > :57:02.they buy a puppy. I think we must also tackle the sale and trafficking

:57:03. > :57:06.of illegally imported puppies. Key agencies will require shared

:57:07. > :57:09.intelligence right across the EU and beyond, and a publish strategy that

:57:10. > :57:17.is monitored, and force and reviewed. Cheques should be routine

:57:18. > :57:20.for dogs entering the UK. That is required not only am welfare but on

:57:21. > :57:24.public health grounds. So what procedures will be put in place in

:57:25. > :57:27.terms of collaboration after Brexit, and how will we make sure these

:57:28. > :57:34.systems are strengthened to ensure animal welfare? Lastly, I want to

:57:35. > :57:38.touch on animal welfare in terms of a sentencing. We have heard some

:57:39. > :57:45.very disturbing accounts today of animal cruelty, and far too lenient

:57:46. > :57:48.sentences imposed. This is just not a deterrent, because these

:57:49. > :57:54.industries are very, very lucrative, and that is why people engage in

:57:55. > :57:59.them. They have no regard for animal welfare, those who are involved, and

:58:00. > :58:04.in terms of cruelty, you have also heard there is research indicating a

:58:05. > :58:07.link between cruelty to animals and cruelty to humans, including

:58:08. > :58:14.children. I know from working in psychology that there is certainly a

:58:15. > :58:17.link between cruelty to animals and psychopathy and cruelty to humans,

:58:18. > :58:20.so this is something that must be taken seriously, both in terms of

:58:21. > :58:28.animal welfare standards, but also in terms of thinking of the impact

:58:29. > :58:31.upon other victims of cruelty. Because these individuals are

:58:32. > :58:35.practising cruelty, basically, on animals, which they will then

:58:36. > :58:41.transfer on to humans. So the government must act. Sentence

:58:42. > :58:46.lengths must be increased. It is not a deterrent, but a lucrative

:58:47. > :58:51.industry, and fines are simply not enough. Small finds are not very

:58:52. > :58:55.much in terms of punishment for individuals making large sums of

:58:56. > :58:58.money. -- small fines. The government must act, I believe, and

:58:59. > :59:06.third-party sales to increase animal welfare in terms of puppies, and on

:59:07. > :59:11.sentencing to ensure that this is a deterrent for those involved in

:59:12. > :59:14.animal cruelty. My constituents, I have had e-mails and letters from

:59:15. > :59:19.numerous constituents who feel that we are just not doing enough and

:59:20. > :59:25.that this has to be tackled. So I would urge the minister to look at

:59:26. > :59:29.this issue and is the minister lastly to look at awareness

:59:30. > :59:33.campaigns. It is extremely important that the public make good, informed

:59:34. > :59:35.decisions and buying puppies, so they can enjoy the puppy and a puppy

:59:36. > :59:51.can enjoy a good life. Could I join in? Thanks. I want to

:59:52. > :59:54.thank various members of the public and organisations who provide us

:59:55. > :59:57.with evidence with such conviction and passion. We were extremely

:59:58. > :00:00.grateful as a committee for the help we got in reaching our conclusions.

:00:01. > :00:06.briefly touch on. The first of which briefly touch on. The first of which

:00:07. > :00:11.is, our enquiries I think reveal that this is a lot more than just

:00:12. > :00:15.about puppy farming. Interns are canine welfare, I think we also

:00:16. > :00:21.learned a lot about the dangers of a wider form of neglect. In terms of

:00:22. > :00:24.canine welfare. That is simply people's inability to look after

:00:25. > :00:28.animals to the standard which we expect, and to be blunt about it,

:00:29. > :00:33.cruelty by kindness, anything we learned important lessons about

:00:34. > :00:37.education as being almost a vital part of this project as prosecution.

:00:38. > :00:40.Likewise, I think we became concerned about issues such as

:00:41. > :00:46.breeding disorders, and how it seems to be accessed double in certain

:00:47. > :00:52.areas are canine ownership to almost deliberately breed abnormalities

:00:53. > :00:55.into canines, and that in itself is an act of considerable cruelty. It

:00:56. > :01:01.doesn't seem to be taking care of by the law, and responsibility for that

:01:02. > :01:05.must lie with breed societies and organisers. I hope of nothing else,

:01:06. > :01:12.this debate sends a small warning to them that deliberately breeding dogs

:01:13. > :01:18.to have bizarre physical deficiencies surely for fashionable

:01:19. > :01:25.purposes is an area that we will, as a society moving on, will probably

:01:26. > :01:27.be closing in on. So we should be more proactive and less reactive as

:01:28. > :01:31.far as these issues are concerned. In other words, prosecution is not

:01:32. > :01:36.probably as they aren't more and probably as they aren't more and

:01:37. > :01:39.more obviously. And if we get that right, the pressure on the puppy

:01:40. > :01:48.farming network to deliver will, I hope, be reduced. The second night I

:01:49. > :01:53.wish to just touch on was puppy farms and the market themselves.

:01:54. > :01:58.This is where, I think, opinion is as divided at any and emotions ran

:01:59. > :02:01.as high as any. As with a lot of welfare legislation, I am always

:02:02. > :02:04.suspicious of a total ban, which is a populist and eye-catching

:02:05. > :02:08.expression that we in Parliament occasionally use, but is not always

:02:09. > :02:12.the answer to a welfare problem. But I do confess to changing my mind on

:02:13. > :02:19.this issue as a result of the visits were made, the vets we spoke to, the

:02:20. > :02:24.expertise that we were exposed to, and visits to pet shops and other

:02:25. > :02:30.establishments. Because all of that led us to the conclusion, I believe,

:02:31. > :02:34.that however hard people try, the basic minimum standards we all

:02:35. > :02:38.expect have never really been met. And I think we were also, as a

:02:39. > :02:42.committee, persuaded, or not persuaded by the claim that public

:02:43. > :02:47.way of meeting it is through this way of meeting it is through this

:02:48. > :02:53.mass production route. And we were convinced by the fact that ethical

:02:54. > :02:57.and effective and commercial alternatives do exist. Indeed, in my

:02:58. > :03:02.own part of West Wales, there is an ethical puppy farm which has large

:03:03. > :03:05.numbers of breeding pitches, sells large numbers of puppies to the

:03:06. > :03:08.public, but does so in a manner where you can meet the mother and

:03:09. > :03:13.father, have a cup of coffee, and do all those things that we encourage.

:03:14. > :03:18.And yet, they are perfectly capable of running a commercially successful

:03:19. > :03:23.enterprise in the process. We'll so learned that demand, I believe, is

:03:24. > :03:27.not a dirty word. -- we also learned. I am also interested, as my

:03:28. > :03:32.colleagues know, in working dogs and gundogs. But I'm expecting to have

:03:33. > :03:35.to pay money for my new gun dog as I speak, and I am expecting to have to

:03:36. > :03:39.travel to find the animal I am looking for, and that is absolutely

:03:40. > :03:43.how it should be. I should not be able to go online or pop down to the

:03:44. > :03:46.pet shop, or just go to some dealer I have never met before. I need to

:03:47. > :03:50.research this purchase and understand everything there is about

:03:51. > :03:53.veterinary record, breeding and the like, in order to do so. I can see

:03:54. > :03:59.why that should be restricted only to working dogs. If we get that

:04:00. > :04:00.right, the second of my three points, there are only moral welfare

:04:01. > :04:13.and economic commercial upsides. And the third point, on the question

:04:14. > :04:19.of prosecutions, featured fairly low in the committee's conclusions, but

:04:20. > :04:24.there has been unsurprisingly some misrepresentation in the media

:04:25. > :04:27.because the committee never did recommend that the RSPCA be stripped

:04:28. > :04:30.of its prosecuting powers, and one reason is that it doesn't have any

:04:31. > :04:36.prosecuting powers over and above those powers which we all have as

:04:37. > :04:40.private citizens in the UK, not in Scotland, which is the right to take

:04:41. > :04:46.out a private prosecution. The conclusion is on the very compelling

:04:47. > :04:52.evidence which was offered by the SS PCA, a more nuanced approach which

:04:53. > :04:55.avoids the accusations of conflict-of-interest, and we also

:04:56. > :05:00.were not persuaded by the idea with that in the absence of the RSPCA who

:05:01. > :05:06.would do this work, and I have a schedule here of animal welfare

:05:07. > :05:12.prosecutions, over half which have been carried out by authorities and

:05:13. > :05:19.the police, and to conclude... Yes, of course. Do you also recognise

:05:20. > :05:24.that there is very important... There is as much publicity about

:05:25. > :05:34.this as we can, about how people misused animals, and one thing might

:05:35. > :05:37.be useful, the archers could run a storyline about animals which are

:05:38. > :05:46.badly treated and badly harmed. Interesting point. I need to listen

:05:47. > :05:48.more to that, I think. But from what I gather, they are covering quite a

:05:49. > :05:54.lot of contemporary issues at the moment, but it is a good point that

:05:55. > :05:57.he makes. I want to conclude and to bring to the attention of the House

:05:58. > :06:04.the letter written by the Attorney General's Office, to our colleague,

:06:05. > :06:07.the member for Mark Harper, who questioned and raised the question

:06:08. > :06:14.whether the Crown Prosecution Service refuses to prosecute on the

:06:15. > :06:17.basis of resources to which the answer is resources are never the

:06:18. > :06:24.only part of the prosecution -- market Harborough. In answer to the

:06:25. > :06:30.question, does the service ever refused to proceed on the lack of

:06:31. > :06:35.expert knowledge, the answer was no. But a distinction should be drawn up

:06:36. > :06:43.between expert knowledge and legal expertise. I made reference to the

:06:44. > :06:48.wording of a recommendation of which I reflected on significantly, and it

:06:49. > :06:55.says the RSPCA should withdraw from acting. I understand the point he is

:06:56. > :07:00.making and the CPS should be doing it, but does he expect they will do

:07:01. > :07:05.it if the RSPCA take a step back? That is a very good point. The

:07:06. > :07:11.report which has been much talked about in enabling us to reach all of

:07:12. > :07:15.our conclusions raises exactly the point he makes, and I think there is

:07:16. > :07:22.a transitional period but I think it is fed to say that there have been

:07:23. > :07:26.concerns expressed -- fair to say. Not just by me, but by more arms

:07:27. > :07:31.length organisations about potential conflicts of interest which exist

:07:32. > :07:36.between organisations which are investigators and prosecutors and

:07:37. > :07:42.campaigners. Knighted 83 Royal commission recommended that the CBS

:07:43. > :07:48.was created for the police not to be accused of that, conflict -- in

:07:49. > :07:50.1983. If it was good enough for the police to have this arm's-length

:07:51. > :07:56.prosecuting process, it is probably big enough and good enough for the

:07:57. > :08:05.second biggest prosecuting this country to have the same thing. I

:08:06. > :08:09.would like to begin by expressing my thanks to the vulnerable and for

:08:10. > :08:14.Tiverton for bringing forward this debate -- honourable member. I was

:08:15. > :08:20.very keen to speak in this debate because like you I believe that

:08:21. > :08:25.animal welfare is extremely important and certainly my

:08:26. > :08:28.constituents have been writing to me as I'm sure they have been fighting

:08:29. > :08:35.to everyone in large sum is, asking me to voice their support for

:08:36. > :08:38.stronger sentences for animal cruelty and although there is a

:08:39. > :08:42.particular focus on poppy farming, which is something of extreme

:08:43. > :08:47.concern to all of us -- puppy farming. Despite the fact it has

:08:48. > :08:50.been banned since the 70s, there are still those who overproduced puppies

:08:51. > :08:56.and we must be vigilant and consider the ethical sourcing of pets. We

:08:57. > :08:59.should pay attention to banning a third-party sale of dogs right

:09:00. > :09:03.across the United Kingdom, dogs should only be available from

:09:04. > :09:08.licensed regulated breeders or approved re-homing organisations and

:09:09. > :09:14.that must apply and it should apply right across the United Kingdom.

:09:15. > :09:20.Anyone breeding two litters or more per year should be licensed as a

:09:21. > :09:23.breeder and this is in fact two litters fewer than under the

:09:24. > :09:28.Scottish Law at the moment and that is something that should be looked

:09:29. > :09:30.at. Animal welfare is devolved to the Scottish parliament and it is

:09:31. > :09:36.something I've called for in this place and outside this place for

:09:37. > :09:40.sentences to be stronger. Wilful Caldy to animals is simply not

:09:41. > :09:44.acceptable in a civilised society -- wilful cruelty. The Scottish

:09:45. > :09:49.Government will continue to legislate to improve animal welfare,

:09:50. > :09:58.with penalties under the animal welfare Scotland act. Despite there

:09:59. > :10:01.being different laws in England and Scotland and Wales, there are areas

:10:02. > :10:05.upon which there is each amounts of common ground. The Scottish Society

:10:06. > :10:11.for the prevention of cruelty to animals is unique amongst animal

:10:12. > :10:17.welfare charities in the UK because it is a reporting agency to the

:10:18. > :10:20.Crown Office and this means that its investigators are authorised to

:10:21. > :10:29.enforce the animal health and welfare Scotland act of 2006 will

:10:30. > :10:35.stop the SS PCC received 241,403 calls and inspectors and animal

:10:36. > :10:40.rescue officers attend a record 80,000 plus incidents last year.

:10:41. > :10:44.However, the Scottish Government doesn't publish the number of people

:10:45. > :10:49.convicted of animal 40, but a freedom of information request from

:10:50. > :10:59.every 2016 indicates that in the year 2013-2014 there were 284

:11:00. > :11:08.charges brought by the... And this figure was 184 the following year. A

:11:09. > :11:11.very powerful speech. I also have a very large mailbag with constituents

:11:12. > :11:16.very concerned about this issue, and we have heard a lot today about

:11:17. > :11:22.puppy farming, but we haven't heard about organised dogfighting. Would

:11:23. > :11:25.you share my concern that there are organised dogfighting gangs in

:11:26. > :11:27.operation through the UK and that penalties and sanctions against

:11:28. > :11:34.these people should be much stronger? Absolutely. We have had a

:11:35. > :11:40.debate in Westminster Hall on this very issue, and I think again, like

:11:41. > :11:45.general animal welfare issues, this is something that people can unite

:11:46. > :11:49.around because this is a despicable practice and an example of the most

:11:50. > :11:53.horrific cruelty, purely for the purposes of making money. We all

:11:54. > :12:04.know that the popularity of programmes like animal SOS and the

:12:05. > :12:08.dog rescuers, this is raising the issue of animal cruelty and neglect

:12:09. > :12:11.taking place, but we must be mindful of the crime of animal cruelty,

:12:12. > :12:18.because it is a crime, serious crime, in our own neighbourhoods.

:12:19. > :12:23.Governments must lead by example and I'm proud the government has a host

:12:24. > :12:27.of new measures to protect animal welfare such as tough new

:12:28. > :12:33.regulations on the use of electronic corners, the prohibition of electric

:12:34. > :12:40.pulse, sonic and spray collars, unless under someone trains like a

:12:41. > :12:45.vet, and taking action on irresponsible dog ownership

:12:46. > :12:48.included. Where we see neglect we must continue to make sure that the

:12:49. > :12:54.laws protect animals from such treatment, and that these laws are

:12:55. > :12:59.always fit for purpose. Sadly there are too many cases as reported by

:13:00. > :13:04.the SSPE where people simply don't know how to look after and animal

:13:05. > :13:07.properly. It seems that there are a significant number of

:13:08. > :13:11.well-intentioned people, welcoming pets into their homes but are simply

:13:12. > :13:17.not equal to the task of giving them the care they need. This tells us

:13:18. > :13:21.that there is a job of education and information that needs to be

:13:22. > :13:24.undertaken so that potential pet owners are well acquainted with the

:13:25. > :13:30.full responsibility that having a pet places on your shoulders. But

:13:31. > :13:36.where we find wilful cruelty and unfortunately we do find it too

:13:37. > :13:39.often, we must take this extremely seriously, and we know and have

:13:40. > :13:42.heard today that there is a connection between the wilfulness

:13:43. > :13:48.treatment of animals and violence and mistreatment of fellow citizens.

:13:49. > :13:52.That as well as protecting animals should give us pause for thought.

:13:53. > :13:58.I'm ashamed to say that the SSPE CAA has reported cases of unimaginable

:13:59. > :14:03.cruelty and I honestly don't believe that a life ban from owning a pet is

:14:04. > :14:07.sufficient censure for such behaviour towards a helpless animal.

:14:08. > :14:10.We have plenty of evidence that such cold sea is a precursors and is a

:14:11. > :14:20.clear link with violence against other people -- that such abuse is a

:14:21. > :14:26.precursors. Cases such as deliberately starving and animal to

:14:27. > :14:29.death, knowingly not locking an animal in the boot of a car in the

:14:30. > :14:34.full knowledge of understanding it will survive such treatment and

:14:35. > :14:39.other horrible examples that we have heard today, must surely be eligible

:14:40. > :14:43.for a custodial sentence. But when it comes to preventing cruelty to

:14:44. > :14:47.animals we must all be vigilant, we are the eyes and ears of the

:14:48. > :14:53.agencies who is sick to prevent cruelty to animals and challenge it

:14:54. > :14:57.when it takes place -- who seek. We all have a responsibility to report

:14:58. > :15:02.faulty and neglect where we find it and at courts across the UK, they

:15:03. > :15:05.must send a clear signal that wilful cruelty to animals will not be

:15:06. > :15:12.tolerated and will be taken extremely seriously. Before I end I

:15:13. > :15:15.really want to mention something of concern to all of us which is that

:15:16. > :15:21.we need to be mindful of animal welfare standards in farming post

:15:22. > :15:25.Brexit. This poses a challenge to animal welfare because EU law is at

:15:26. > :15:28.the heart of our animal welfare legislation which protects animal

:15:29. > :15:34.health and consumers as well as the environment. EU sets down minimum

:15:35. > :15:39.standards, national governments might adopt more stringent rules,

:15:40. > :15:42.but the UK Government has been resistant to gold plating EU

:15:43. > :15:45.regulations in the past over fears that this would weaken UK

:15:46. > :15:50.competitiveness so I would like the minister today as well as answering

:15:51. > :15:53.the point is to reassure this House that there will be no devolution in

:15:54. > :16:06.our standards for animal welfare as we seek to work towards unilateral

:16:07. > :16:08.treaties outside Europe. May I join my fellow colleagues on the

:16:09. > :16:14.committee and also the members here for thanking the friend, from

:16:15. > :16:18.Tiverton, for bringing this debate forward, and it is always a pleasure

:16:19. > :16:23.to serve under his chairmanship in that particular accent the

:16:24. > :16:27.committee. -- select committee. I will try to touch on a few points

:16:28. > :16:30.which have not been made in the excellent report, but I must start

:16:31. > :16:37.by joining with everyone else in talking about third-party sales and

:16:38. > :16:42.puppy breeding. I went into the select committee thinking to myself

:16:43. > :16:48.that it was a bad idea to ban third-party sales, but I must say

:16:49. > :16:51.having looked at the evidence and listen to the evidence and read the

:16:52. > :16:57.evidence and sing with my own eyes when visiting a puppy farm in West

:16:58. > :17:02.Wales, my opinion changed -- scene. I would say as far as the visit is

:17:03. > :17:07.concerned, when we looked around, and there must have been 60-80 dogs

:17:08. > :17:10.there in what I would call tiny enclosures, with about three foot

:17:11. > :17:16.high walls, so they could not see out and they could not see their

:17:17. > :17:21.neighbours. They couldn't be dogs. It was quite distressing because I

:17:22. > :17:26.could look back and said they were skinny or malnourished and in danger

:17:27. > :17:30.of needing relief and veterinary care, but they just couldn't be dogs

:17:31. > :17:34.and having had dogs all my life, that was something that I found very

:17:35. > :17:40.disturbing and made me change my mind. But something that hasn't been

:17:41. > :17:47.touched on already today, either, is the fact that there are many many

:17:48. > :17:53.responsible dog breeders out there. When we went to look for a dog only

:17:54. > :17:56.last year, typical in a family, I wanted a Labrador and my wife wanted

:17:57. > :18:03.with it and I have a wife and two young daughters and we ended up with

:18:04. > :18:08.a whippet dog. And a female one, at that, but there we are. What was

:18:09. > :18:13.very clear, then we went to look at this dog in the Vale of Glamorgan,

:18:14. > :18:17.we went to look at the puppy and there was a litter of puppies and we

:18:18. > :18:23.were able to have the choice of that letter. It was clear to me that as

:18:24. > :18:27.we were looking at my family, and my children were there, as well, with

:18:28. > :18:30.his dog breeder, that we were being interviewed and interrogated by this

:18:31. > :18:35.dog breeder and if she didn't like us and didn't think we were suitable

:18:36. > :18:39.we would not have been going back to pick up that puppy in a month, and I

:18:40. > :18:45.think that is what we should be aiming for, we have all said what is

:18:46. > :18:49.wrong so far, we have all that the law is wrong, but it is education

:18:50. > :18:51.and it is like-minded people that we need to be doing the job of breeding

:18:52. > :18:59.dogs. Something else that was clear, which

:19:00. > :19:04.I was surprised about when we took evidence, was that this country,

:19:05. > :19:09.even with the puppy farming that we have and the puppy farming but we

:19:10. > :19:12.don't like around the country, we do not read enough puppies and dogs in

:19:13. > :19:16.this country to sustain the demand, and hence we are having to have dogs

:19:17. > :19:22.coming in from Ireland or mainland Europe, whether it is both, and that

:19:23. > :19:27.really needs to be tackled, because we need to look at how we can supply

:19:28. > :19:32.the demand in this country without these unfortunate practices. It is

:19:33. > :19:36.clear that, when puppies are coming in from abroad, sadly, many puppies

:19:37. > :19:42.leave their mother, wherever that may be, and they do not even live to

:19:43. > :19:45.get onto mainland Britain, so it is a tragedy. I think the honourable

:19:46. > :19:52.member for giving way with his excellent speech. Would he agree

:19:53. > :19:55.that part of the issue with demand is about changing public attitudes,

:19:56. > :20:01.because cat and dog homes are full of puppies who have been discarded,

:20:02. > :20:05.who might not be pedigrees, but who would make extremely good pets and

:20:06. > :20:09.that should be offered the opportunity of a good home? I think

:20:10. > :20:13.the honourable lady for her contribution and I could not agree

:20:14. > :20:19.any more with her. I must say, because of that particular reason, I

:20:20. > :20:23.was surprised that like the RSPCA, the PDSA, Battersea dogs home were

:20:24. > :20:26.not keen on banning third-party sales, so I am glad they have now

:20:27. > :20:30.changed their minds and people now have a great choice in going to

:20:31. > :20:36.categories and dog kennels out there to get their enemy. -- their animal.

:20:37. > :20:44.One organisation that has not been spoken about today is the BVA, the

:20:45. > :20:47.British veterinary association. They gave excellent information to the

:20:48. > :20:53.enquiry and they are a highly respected organisation. They came

:20:54. > :20:56.out and said that puppy farming and irresponsible dog breeding practices

:20:57. > :21:01.must be tackled as quickly as possible, and I think the minister

:21:02. > :21:04.and ourselves all agree with this excellent organisation, and we must

:21:05. > :21:08.listen to organisms and is like that, who have so much to offer,

:21:09. > :21:12.because it is organisations like veterinary organisations that carry

:21:13. > :21:16.out a lot of the work on our behalf. As far as they are concerned, I

:21:17. > :21:21.would say that they come out with an interesting point, and that relates

:21:22. > :21:30.to a framework of animal welfare in this country. Because we don't seem

:21:31. > :21:32.to have it. With the D word nowadays, devolution, we are seeing

:21:33. > :21:39.more and more power is going to various parts of the country, we

:21:40. > :21:43.also have these various forms of devolution, these parliaments and

:21:44. > :21:47.organisations, they are coming up with their own laws, making life

:21:48. > :21:53.very difficult for veterinary surgeons, RSPCA officers and so on.

:21:54. > :21:57.For example, we have electrical pulse collars which are now banned

:21:58. > :22:01.in Wales but, in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, you can use

:22:02. > :22:05.them. There are parts of my constituency which have fields and

:22:06. > :22:09.commons where it would be illegal on one side of the Commons and not the

:22:10. > :22:13.other. We have dog licence is required in Northern Ireland but not

:22:14. > :22:17.anywhere else in mainland Britain. We have control of horses, with

:22:18. > :22:21.separate legislation in England and Wales but none in Ireland and

:22:22. > :22:26.Scotland. It is getting terribly complicated for anybody who wants to

:22:27. > :22:32.comply with and to enforce the law. At some point, we need to think

:22:33. > :22:41.about a framework. I would just like to finish, Mr Deputy Speaker, by

:22:42. > :22:44.saying about the equines, and the equine identification and

:22:45. > :22:51.traceability. Clearly, as the evidence showed, as we all agree, we

:22:52. > :22:55.must make it simpler. There are over 60 passport issuing organisations

:22:56. > :23:01.out there, and really this report recommends one single organisation.

:23:02. > :23:05.The national equine database closed in 2012, making it impossible to

:23:06. > :23:10.enforce, and I would ask the minister where we are with this at

:23:11. > :23:14.the moment, because equines are vitally important, whether they are

:23:15. > :23:18.for leisure, for work, or purely for pleasure. They are a great animal to

:23:19. > :23:20.have and I strongly recommend them and we should certainly have the

:23:21. > :23:30.right system in place for them. It is my term to be... I will come to a

:23:31. > :23:35.close, Mr Deputy Speaker. In closing, I would have to touch on

:23:36. > :23:39.the RSPCA. I think it was a very worthwhile set of points in the

:23:40. > :23:42.report that should be taken and looked at very seriously.

:23:43. > :23:48.Fundraising, campaigning, investigation and prosecution, to

:23:49. > :23:52.me, they don't fit. I think our friends from Scotland, as I said

:23:53. > :23:55.earlier, they lead by example. The Attorney General has clearly said

:23:56. > :24:09.there is capacity in his department for us to look at this and I would

:24:10. > :24:12.hope in the future that we do. For the hard work that he does as chair

:24:13. > :24:18.of the different committee. We deeply appreciate his contribution

:24:19. > :24:21.and is contribution of the subject matter, which he brings to this

:24:22. > :24:25.chamber on a regular basis, whenever the issues are to do with farming.

:24:26. > :24:30.We all look forward to his contributions, whether it be to do

:24:31. > :24:35.with milking or dogs and animal welfare. I have received a

:24:36. > :24:39.substantial volume of e-mails regarding the issue of public farms

:24:40. > :24:41.and I believe it is incumbent on me to put forward a plea from many of

:24:42. > :24:47.my constituents. We are often referred to as a nation of animal

:24:48. > :24:50.lovers, and I believe we are. When we get examples of animal cruelty,

:24:51. > :24:55.which we do from individuals, whatever the reasons, you realise

:24:56. > :25:01.there are some nasty and evil people out there. I think I'm supposed to

:25:02. > :25:07.do this, declaring an interest, my wife is a volunteer in an animal

:25:08. > :25:17.charity looking after cats and dogs, and she is very active in that. I

:25:18. > :25:21.became a cat lover, which I never was until I married my wife, but

:25:22. > :25:27.that is by the way. I am aware of the recently... I am aware of the

:25:28. > :25:32.recently published plans to improve the licensing of animal breeding.

:25:33. > :25:37.This is most welcome. It would appear that the calls from the

:25:38. > :25:41.select committee and numerous leading charities to implement a ban

:25:42. > :25:47.on third-party copy sales is not being implemented, and this is

:25:48. > :25:55.disheartening. -- third-party puppy sales. We look forward to the

:25:56. > :25:59.Minister's response. Licensing and microchip it is necessary and good.

:26:00. > :26:03.This in itself will not address the issue of the puppy trade and the

:26:04. > :26:05.worries of my constituents that it will not stop the trade. I think

:26:06. > :26:12.there is something despicable and wrong. About a puppy farmer

:26:13. > :26:15.continuously, regularly breeding a dog for the purpose of sales of

:26:16. > :26:22.their puppies, to the detriment of the health of the dog. I know that

:26:23. > :26:29.all of my life, Mr Deputy Speaker, I have always had dogs, whether it be,

:26:30. > :26:36.rainy and is all, in latter years, Jack Russell is. -- whether it be a,

:26:37. > :26:39.rainy in. I think that they own me. Springer spaniel 's and cocker

:26:40. > :26:43.spaniels in particular. I see the honourable gentleman for Carmarthen

:26:44. > :26:49.West and South Pembrokeshire, he refers to the working dogs, of which

:26:50. > :26:56.I have a number. Again, the cocker spaniels and springer spaniel 's are

:26:57. > :27:01.dogs that we have. Whenever the mother had had puppies, we always

:27:02. > :27:06.made sure, like the previous honourable gentleman said, that the

:27:07. > :27:11.person who got that dog was suitable for them it was nothing to do with

:27:12. > :27:15.money. It was mostly to good homes. We were looking for a good home for

:27:16. > :27:22.the long, and that is what we want to see through this legislation. --

:27:23. > :27:25.a good home for the dog. The thought is that, by eliminating the

:27:26. > :27:31.middlemen, the dog loving public will be able to source their puppies

:27:32. > :27:35.from legitimate breeders or rescue centres, leading to a big

:27:36. > :27:40.improvement in welfare standards for dogs. I think we also have to make a

:27:41. > :27:44.marker in relation to, and I give the names of two breeds, labradors

:27:45. > :27:50.and Alsatians, dogs that are prone to displace ear. Many times, dogs or

:27:51. > :27:57.puppies are sold without the veterinary approval that say that

:27:58. > :28:00.dogs are free from potentially physical disabilities. I think we

:28:01. > :28:06.need to do something on that. I would also join with other calls for

:28:07. > :28:12.a ban on the sale puppies without their mother is present. Could I ask

:28:13. > :28:15.the Minister, in relation to the recent legislation from the Northern

:28:16. > :28:19.Ireland Assembly, I know there were references to the differences across

:28:20. > :28:22.the UK, but I think that we in Northern Ireland, if I can say, we

:28:23. > :28:28.have legislation that has been particularly good, and I would ask

:28:29. > :28:31.the minister is what discussions he has had with his representatives at

:28:32. > :28:36.that level Northern Ireland. I will briefly touch on the fact that

:28:37. > :28:42.animal cruelty centres are designed in such a way that, if the defendant

:28:43. > :28:48.pleads guilty, their sentence is wood used, no matter how bad offence

:28:49. > :28:56.is. This needs changing. -- their sentence is reduced. The amendment

:28:57. > :29:01.means the maximum sentence handed down in a court for animal cruelty

:29:02. > :29:06.crimes will increase to five years. That is justice that fits the crime

:29:07. > :29:12.and that is the way that we should have the legislation across the UK.

:29:13. > :29:15.Very quickly, on dogfighting, and I have had some examples of it in my

:29:16. > :29:22.constituency, and I think it is a despicable action and nothing

:29:23. > :29:25.grieves me as much as to see it. We have a very active police force in

:29:26. > :29:30.Northern Ireland in a specific wildlife officer set aside with the

:29:31. > :29:34.task of it. I know the officer concerned, because I knew her

:29:35. > :29:37.father, but she is the one responsible for it. The police have

:29:38. > :29:44.been active in Northern Ireland to try and catch those people. The

:29:45. > :29:51.animals having an animal fight, they will face up to 12 months in prison

:29:52. > :29:55.and the maximum fine will rise to 12,000 -- 20,000. That is the kind

:29:56. > :30:01.of action that we need. As a consequence, cases have been found

:30:02. > :30:07.in to the director of public... There have been examples in the

:30:08. > :30:12.past, and I the DPP to look at them and review the case, not because of

:30:13. > :30:18.my actions, but the of others, and a stronger sentence was handed out.

:30:19. > :30:26.This is certainly something which must be replicated in the UK, and I

:30:27. > :30:31.most sincerely urge the Minister to make contact with the Northern

:30:32. > :30:35.Ireland Assembly. I know we are working to a timescale, but I want

:30:36. > :30:40.ask the Minister in relation to what discussions he has had with the

:30:41. > :30:43.Republic of Ireland, where we know that the same legislation is not

:30:44. > :30:48.necessarily in place, the moving of puppies and puppy farms across the

:30:49. > :30:54.border. What are we doing in relation to that? I believe it is

:30:55. > :30:58.clear that we have at present in the mainland, it doesn't even come close

:30:59. > :31:01.to ensuring that people understand the torrents of animal cruelty. For

:31:02. > :31:07.persistent offenders, there must be tough sentencing. I call on the

:31:08. > :31:11.Minister, and I know he will respond positively, to take the time to

:31:12. > :31:22.ensure that their steps taken urgently to sort out the current

:31:23. > :31:25.failure in terms of sentencing. May I comment very much indeed right

:31:26. > :31:35.honourable friend, the member for Honiton and Tiverton, for chairing

:31:36. > :31:40.the select committee and producing this report about animal welfare and

:31:41. > :31:46.how we should take greater care of them. May I also congratulate the

:31:47. > :31:51.honourable member for Redcar on her heart-wrenching stories, which she

:31:52. > :31:55.told, about how some people end up abusing animals in no uncertain

:31:56. > :31:59.terms, and I come back to the point I made in an intervention. It is

:32:00. > :32:05.very important, in my opinion, that we should have better education,

:32:06. > :32:09.especially as far as children are concerned, so that they understand

:32:10. > :32:13.the values and importance of looking after animals, and how important it

:32:14. > :32:17.is. I'm not going to pretend that I ever lived in a family which has got

:32:18. > :32:24.lots of dogs and cats and things like that. I can tell the stories

:32:25. > :32:30.about some of the hedgehogs. But what I will say is that it would

:32:31. > :32:36.switch my honourable friend made about animals in farms is incredibly

:32:37. > :32:42.important, and one of the things that I think should be looked at is

:32:43. > :32:46.the importance of people who have actually got dementia and how it is

:32:47. > :32:52.that they safeguard their animals as well. This is very important. I was

:32:53. > :32:56.talking to Ian Sheriff, a professor at Plymouth university, and I am

:32:57. > :33:04.doing a lot of work with him. He runs the dimension for the area down

:33:05. > :33:09.in Devon, and he was saying how difficult it was that they found a

:33:10. > :33:12.couple with dementia who were not feeding their animals properly, they

:33:13. > :33:15.were having problems to do with drinking water and things like that,

:33:16. > :33:20.and I think that is something which my honourable friend might look at.

:33:21. > :33:25.The Minister might also look at it. It may be an enquiry which the

:33:26. > :33:35.select committee wishes to look at, too. That is something which I think

:33:36. > :33:38.is very important. Now, I make it, I make no apologies for saying this, I

:33:39. > :33:46.think one thing the government needs to end up doing is looking at the

:33:47. > :33:49.whole issue of protected species and making it more flexible. I have

:33:50. > :33:54.spent quite a large amount of time in this place talking about our

:33:55. > :33:59.wonderful friend, the hedgehogs, which have declined by 30% over the

:34:00. > :34:04.last 10-15 years. I launched a petition, which we ended up by

:34:05. > :34:09.having 50,000 people signing online, and we have ended up with another

:34:10. > :34:14.12,000 people signing paper editions as well. I will be presenting those

:34:15. > :34:18.petitions with my honourable friends who also participated in some of

:34:19. > :34:23.this as well, and we will try and make sure we get that. But it is

:34:24. > :34:28.important to have flexibility, because it seems to my mind that

:34:29. > :34:31.there are some places where hedgehogs and, for that matter,

:34:32. > :34:38.seagulls, which is another big issue, and ended up in decline. It

:34:39. > :34:43.seems to my mind that we need to ensure there is greater flexibility.

:34:44. > :34:47.The reason why head coach is -- white hedgehogs have been declining

:34:48. > :34:52.is partly because of the getting of properties, taking away some of the

:34:53. > :34:56.wildlife and grassland they can end up in. It is occasionally because

:34:57. > :35:03.people decide they are going to put down a poisonous slug pellet, which

:35:04. > :35:07.actually be hedgehogs eat the slugs which have been contaminated and

:35:08. > :35:11.they end up dying. I think the government needs to look at this.

:35:12. > :35:23.The other thing I would argue, these chaps which have been introduced, to

:35:24. > :35:29.try and protect -- traps. We need to look at this more closely, and I

:35:30. > :35:31.have written to the colleague of my honourable friend and that is

:35:32. > :35:36.something which will be helpful, if we can have a helpful and proper

:35:37. > :35:45.debate about that. Final point, seagulls are a very big difficulty

:35:46. > :35:50.in constituencies like mine, and we need to not coal them, but we need

:35:51. > :35:55.to make sure we can control them, and that might be by posing in dummy

:35:56. > :36:01.eggs -- putting in. Especially at this time of year. The final point,

:36:02. > :36:12.we also need to make sure that we look after our ecology in the form

:36:13. > :36:15.of these. -- bees. Some people have been critical of my interest in this

:36:16. > :36:20.issue, but if we see a decline in our animal species in our country we

:36:21. > :36:23.are ruining our ecology and what might happen elsewhere and that is

:36:24. > :36:28.something which we need to be very serious about. I have more letters

:36:29. > :36:33.on issues to do with hedgehogs and seagulls than I have on anything

:36:34. > :36:39.else, at all. The British public are very very keen on this and they want

:36:40. > :36:43.to see us protecting the animals in the same way that we want to do

:36:44. > :36:51.social justice as far as people are concerned, as well. Thank you very

:36:52. > :36:55.much for calling me and I want to commend the chairman of our select

:36:56. > :36:59.committee for bringing this debate and I'm proud to be on the

:37:00. > :37:02.committee. This is another example of some of the very good work that I

:37:03. > :37:07.believe members and colleagues are doing on this committee. I commend

:37:08. > :37:10.the committee, and I'm also delighted to see you in the chair

:37:11. > :37:21.because I gather that you are a doctor Dolittle. Having a number of

:37:22. > :37:26.pets. Under your wing. I'm very pleased to see you. We are a nation

:37:27. > :37:31.of dog lovers and animal lovers and I was brought up on a farm with dogs

:37:32. > :37:38.and the dog was my best friend, as a moody teenager I'd turned to the dog

:37:39. > :37:42.more than anyone else. I also took part in that wonderful Westminster

:37:43. > :37:48.dog of the year competition. I borrowed a dog to highlight the

:37:49. > :37:56.issues of the good work that the organisation works doing. -- were

:37:57. > :38:02.doing. That's cheating. It's not cheating, I was trying to do

:38:03. > :38:07.education. It's cheating! It is not cheating. It's about education and

:38:08. > :38:12.we have touched on education so much this morning, it is about getting

:38:13. > :38:18.the right messages across to people about animal ownership, but turning

:38:19. > :38:23.to the issue at hand. I'm going to touch on a couple of things in this

:38:24. > :38:28.report, mainly sentencing and licensing, and many others have also

:38:29. > :38:35.raised them. Puppy farming, to start with, is a massive business in the

:38:36. > :38:37.UK, and it is an estimated ?300 million business, so this is not

:38:38. > :38:45.something small we are talking about. Quite simply demand outstrips

:38:46. > :38:48.supply, which leaves space for these unscrupulous breeders to come and

:38:49. > :38:53.operate and that is something which this report is aiming to look at.

:38:54. > :38:56.Touching on the sentencing it has been agreed right across this House

:38:57. > :39:01.that the UK has very high animal welfare standards and we pride

:39:02. > :39:05.ourselves on that which is why it seems strangely puzzling that our

:39:06. > :39:14.sentencing of offenders is actually solo. With the maximum sentence as

:39:15. > :39:19.six months -- is actually so low. To put this in context, Northern

:39:20. > :39:23.Ireland and Montenegro have maximum prison sentences of five years. So

:39:24. > :39:32.it makes me think that we need to have a look back. We are actually

:39:33. > :39:35.the lowest... We have the lowest sentences for these animal abuse

:39:36. > :39:38.crimes in the developed world and as has been mentioned and I want to

:39:39. > :39:45.highlight this again, there is a very strong link between animal

:39:46. > :39:51.cruelty and domestic violence. One study found 88% of homes where child

:39:52. > :39:55.abuse had been discovered, there have been animal abuse incidents and

:39:56. > :40:01.another study found that up to 83% of women that enter the domestic

:40:02. > :40:05.violence shelters report that their abuses have also been abusing the

:40:06. > :40:12.family pet, so there is a worrying and strong link. It shows why we

:40:13. > :40:17.should take this so seriously, and also just to touch on another

:40:18. > :40:21.example, for fly-tipping, which is very serious, and I don't think we

:40:22. > :40:25.should backtrack on those sentences, but you can get five years, however

:40:26. > :40:28.you can burn your pet and give gross abuse that we have heard about from

:40:29. > :40:35.the opposite benches, and you might get six months, which is

:40:36. > :40:39.unbelievable. We don't want to overload prisons but we need to have

:40:40. > :40:45.another look at this and not be coy about the very serious examples, and

:40:46. > :40:49.there is one in my constituency which has arisen and this wasn't for

:40:50. > :40:55.a dog or a cat, this was on a dairy farm. He actually is in the top

:40:56. > :41:00.group of animal welfare standards for dairy farmers, but I'm but known

:41:01. > :41:06.to him a lad he had taken on as an apprentice was going in and this was

:41:07. > :41:13.secretly filmed by animal equality, he was kicking the nursing cows in

:41:14. > :41:17.the face and kid on the cards and pressing them against metal gates

:41:18. > :41:23.and he was abusing them verbally -- kicking the carbs. The dairy farmers

:41:24. > :41:27.had no idea this was happening until it was shown in the video and you

:41:28. > :41:30.can see this online, actually. His sentencing is being considered at

:41:31. > :41:36.the moment but we know it will probably not fit the crime. Which

:41:37. > :41:39.really makes the point today. I'm quickly going to touch on to

:41:40. > :41:46.internet sales which was referred to elegantly already -- eloquently.

:41:47. > :41:49.Many of these illegal puppy sales happen on the internet and I'm

:41:50. > :41:53.pleased that the government is looking at this and now we have to

:41:54. > :41:58.have a breeders license number if you are selling online, and I

:41:59. > :42:02.welcome that. Many would be grateful for a new centralised register, this

:42:03. > :42:06.has been touched on today. My daughter is away sending me pictures

:42:07. > :42:10.of cute puppies online in people's handbags and chocolate boxes,

:42:11. > :42:18.saying, money, why don't you get one of these? I know many of those

:42:19. > :42:20.puppies have been illegally bred and have suffered some of the horrible

:42:21. > :42:25.details we heard about from my friends behind. I will give way to

:42:26. > :42:32.my hedgehog friend from Plymouth, of course. Do you not think one of the

:42:33. > :42:36.problems we are about to face, hopefully we will have a nice long

:42:37. > :42:40.hot summer, but people who leave their dogs in the car and don't

:42:41. > :42:47.actually take protection in order to open the windows or leave some water

:42:48. > :42:52.in there, as well. He makes a very pertinent point and also as many

:42:53. > :43:01.colleagues will know, when you go canvassing you often see dogs locked

:43:02. > :43:04.in at home for hours on end and many are facing psychological problems

:43:05. > :43:07.and vets are giving some of them Valium to calm them down, I

:43:08. > :43:11.understand, so there are welfare issues that we have got to deal with

:43:12. > :43:19.in this country. I'm just going to go on very quickly to our report,

:43:20. > :43:23.calling for breeders of puppies to have to get a formal licence and if

:43:24. > :43:26.they have three litters a year to apply for a formal licence and I

:43:27. > :43:30.think this is a step in the right direction. There are calls police to

:43:31. > :43:38.drop down to two litters, in case there is an accidental litter which

:43:39. > :43:43.also happens that there are calls for it to drop down. Do not forget

:43:44. > :43:48.cats, breeders of cats of two litters or more should also be

:43:49. > :43:53.licensed with the relevant welfare conditions and I applaud that.

:43:54. > :43:57.Education has been raised, and I wonder if there is any way we could

:43:58. > :44:01.give local authorities who are under pressure in many cases because they

:44:02. > :44:06.often have to police these things, maybe a bit education in this area,

:44:07. > :44:10.maybe not throw money at them, but education and additional help might

:44:11. > :44:15.support for councils might help them to clamp down on any offenders they

:44:16. > :44:21.find. I'm going to round up and I want to go onto a final note, which

:44:22. > :44:25.is about the animal welfare standards in general as we do exit

:44:26. > :44:32.the EU and it has been touched on by my honourable friend. If the UK is

:44:33. > :44:42.going to set itself up as an animal welfare exam -- exam

:44:43. > :44:48.it will be crucial that we have regulations and a framework which is

:44:49. > :44:53.fit for purpose, and I'm coming to the end, Mr Deputy Speaker, and this

:44:54. > :44:58.would include reference to things like antibiotics, and how the

:44:59. > :45:02.animals are kept and managed or stop we are going to build a British

:45:03. > :45:06.brand, and so that is essential, but we must know what other countries

:45:07. > :45:09.also do and we know what they do in the EU and we need to know what our

:45:10. > :45:15.global partners do a mini generics and what they do because we have to

:45:16. > :45:21.trade them on equal welfare terms -- and we need to know exactly what

:45:22. > :45:25.they do. This is something we could have a look at. To conclude, I

:45:26. > :45:29.applaud this report and there are many things still to be done, but we

:45:30. > :45:33.have made many steps in the right direction and I know the minister is

:45:34. > :45:39.listening and the overall aim of course of the work everyone is doing

:45:40. > :45:45.is to give our pets the happy, healthy and lovely lifestyle that

:45:46. > :45:53.they deserve. I wanted to make a brief contribution to this debate

:45:54. > :45:57.purely and simply on one of the issues that the House has been

:45:58. > :46:02.discussing, namely the increase in the ability of the courts do have

:46:03. > :46:11.the flexibility to sentence people before them for up to five years

:46:12. > :46:15.rather than as it stands at the moment for a maximum of six years,

:46:16. > :46:22.sentence which has stood since 1911 stop there is no doubt that all of

:46:23. > :46:28.us, including myself in my and constituency in Nottinghamshire,

:46:29. > :46:32.have received considerable pressure from constituents who have contacted

:46:33. > :46:37.me saying they simply cannot believe that a law has stayed in place for

:46:38. > :46:41.that long without change. I think that when we look at some of the

:46:42. > :46:46.cases that we all get as individual constituency MPs, but also we see

:46:47. > :46:50.reported in the newspapers, it clearly is the case that the courts

:46:51. > :46:54.need the flexibility to be able to deal with people before them in a

:46:55. > :46:57.much more severe way than they actually are at the present time.

:46:58. > :47:02.The other thing to say, it doesn't compel the courts to sentence

:47:03. > :47:06.someone for five years and it doesn't compel the courts to do

:47:07. > :47:10.anything, but what it does do as the Minister will know, is to say to the

:47:11. > :47:17.courts, you have this power should it be something you think is

:47:18. > :47:20.necessary to do. The importance of that is the flexibility, and I just

:47:21. > :47:24.wanted to make a brief contribution to add my support and to make sure

:47:25. > :47:29.that the voice of my constituents and indeed many others across the

:47:30. > :47:34.country were added to ask the government to support what the

:47:35. > :47:38.committee has said, but to ask the government to as quickly as possible

:47:39. > :47:41.to speedily review this, to take on board the recommendation of five

:47:42. > :47:46.years and to change that sentencing maximum from six months to five

:47:47. > :47:47.years and I have the Minister will take that on board and change that

:47:48. > :47:59.as soon as possible. -- I hope. This enquiry we are debating today

:48:00. > :48:02.was conducted by a subcommittee of the Defra committee, and I was

:48:03. > :48:11.pleased to participate. We published our detailed report on the 2nd of

:48:12. > :48:14.November 2016 following scrutiny of 256 items published evidence, seven

:48:15. > :48:22.evidence gathering sessions and three site visits. I am grateful

:48:23. > :48:27.today for the backing given today by organisations including the RSPCA. I

:48:28. > :48:32.should say at the outset that this enquiry caused myself and, I

:48:33. > :48:35.believe, other members of the committee significant distress

:48:36. > :48:38.listening to accounts of serious animal cruelty and, indeed, viewing

:48:39. > :48:44.at first hand animals in recovery shelters and being held in horrific

:48:45. > :48:49.conditions in puppy farms. The treatment and plight of many of

:48:50. > :48:54.these animals that we saw is simply unacceptable. Like other members, I

:48:55. > :48:59.want to focus on two aspects. First, the recommendation that an immediate

:49:00. > :49:00.ban be placed on the third-party sale of dogs and, second, the

:49:01. > :49:07.recommendation that the maximum penalty for welfare offences in

:49:08. > :49:10.England be increased to five years in prison. This enquiry learned that

:49:11. > :49:16.dogs are bred, sold and traded everyday, while the scale of the

:49:17. > :49:21.market for puppies in England is largely unknown. Estimates suggest

:49:22. > :49:29.it is somewhere between 700000 and 1.9 million dogs traded each year,

:49:30. > :49:36.with a street value of somewhere between 100 and ?300 million per

:49:37. > :49:38.annum. The public purchases puppies from a variety of sources, including

:49:39. > :49:45.unlicensed breeders and back street traders, commercial licensed

:49:46. > :49:50.breeders and pet shops, illegal importers, kennel club registered

:49:51. > :49:53.breeders and excellent rescue organisations. Unlicensed breeders,

:49:54. > :49:56.commercial licensed breeders and illegal importers are the sources

:49:57. > :50:03.that caused us concern. We identified significant variation in

:50:04. > :50:08.the quality puppies, their viability and the Welbeck problems experienced

:50:09. > :50:14.by across these sources. The breeding of dogs act 1973 and the

:50:15. > :50:17.breeding and sale of dogs welfare act 1999 set out the licensing

:50:18. > :50:21.regime under which local authorities licensed dog breeding establishment

:50:22. > :50:26.in England. The legislation states that anyone carrying on business of

:50:27. > :50:31.reading and selling puppies must have a licensed irrespective of the

:50:32. > :50:35.number of letters. But, owing to a lack of clarity, many local

:50:36. > :50:39.authorities in England have interpreted the legislation to mean

:50:40. > :50:43.that a licence is required only for those breeding five or more letters

:50:44. > :50:47.in a 12 month period and, as a consequence, a large number of

:50:48. > :50:50.breeders are considered to fall outside the current licensing

:50:51. > :50:56.regime, with no record of the dogs are being born and no enforcement of

:50:57. > :51:00.welfare standards. Indeed, Defra's recent consultation on its of animal

:51:01. > :51:06.licensing establishments noted confusion about the threshold and

:51:07. > :51:09.how it should be used in practice. Defra has proposed a cleric in

:51:10. > :51:12.threshold at which a breeding establishment requires to be

:51:13. > :51:18.licensed, suggesting that in future the requirement of a licence would

:51:19. > :51:21.apply to anybody in the business of reading or selling dogs or anybody

:51:22. > :51:26.purchasing three or more letters from their dogs in 12 months.

:51:27. > :51:31.Witnesses told us they want a lower threshold. In fact, expert in animal

:51:32. > :51:34.welfare argued that anyone breeding two or more litters per year should

:51:35. > :51:40.be required to register as a breeder. The view is that, while one

:51:41. > :51:45.litter might be unintended, anybody producing more than one is clearly

:51:46. > :51:51.running a business breeding dogs for sale. I agree with that opinion.

:51:52. > :51:54.Witnesses also told us that those falling below this threshold should

:51:55. > :51:58.be registered with their local authority. The national companion

:51:59. > :52:04.animal focus group, for example, told us a registration scheme would

:52:05. > :52:09.ensure licensing authorities are aware of breeding dogs in their area

:52:10. > :52:13.and can monitor when they fall into the definitions of commercial

:52:14. > :52:18.breeding. I agree with that opinion also. It is vital that transparency

:52:19. > :52:20.is brought to ensuring appropriate welfare standards are in place. For

:52:21. > :52:26.that reason, the committee recommended that anyone breeding two

:52:27. > :52:30.or more litters per year should be licensed as a breeder and anyone

:52:31. > :52:33.falling below the threshold of a licensed breeder should be

:52:34. > :52:37.registered with the local authority. Turning to commercial breeders,

:52:38. > :52:42.current requirements dictate that anyone who carries on the business

:52:43. > :52:47.of reading dogs for sale must hold a licence from their local authority

:52:48. > :52:50.and meet certain conditions, such as providing suitable accommodation,

:52:51. > :52:53.food, water and bedding. Dog breeders are supposed to keep

:52:54. > :52:58.records to show compliance with these requirements. Puppies bred at

:52:59. > :53:04.licensed commercial breeding establishments are required to be

:53:05. > :53:06.sold at those premises or at a licensed pet shop. Here, the

:53:07. > :53:13.problems arise. Undoubtedly there are very good commercial breeders

:53:14. > :53:17.but, in evidence, we encountered far too many examples of these

:53:18. > :53:21.requirements are being ignored, with puppies being bred in substandard

:53:22. > :53:31.conditions on an industrial scale. Some housed as many as 200 breeding

:53:32. > :53:37.bitches with cruelty self evident. Enforcement of the licensing regime

:53:38. > :53:40.was a mixed picture, with local authorities placing different levels

:53:41. > :53:45.of emphasis on it. I think that is an understatement. We call for

:53:46. > :53:50.improvement in two areas in particular. The current legislation

:53:51. > :53:54.and licensing system and enforcement of the licensing regime. The current

:53:55. > :53:58.enforcement of the regime is unsatisfactory. Some local

:53:59. > :54:01.authorities have developed expertise in animal welfare, but the majority

:54:02. > :54:05.of English local authorities lack any suitably qualified inspectors.

:54:06. > :54:13.We believe that a national inspectorate with local authorities

:54:14. > :54:17.-- which local authorities could call upon would enable expertise to

:54:18. > :54:23.develop and bring consistency to the licensing process and support local

:54:24. > :54:26.authorities in enforcing the licensed regime, undertaking

:54:27. > :54:31.inspections and dealing with complaints. In respect of the legal

:54:32. > :54:34.-- illegal importers, we found that puppies are imported for commercial

:54:35. > :54:41.purposes under the non-commercial trade rules that were set up to free

:54:42. > :54:45.movement of people's pets through the pet travel scheme. Witnesses

:54:46. > :54:48.told us that loopholes originating in the UK mean that the pet travel

:54:49. > :54:55.scheme is abused by unscrupulous breeders and traders. Puppies are

:54:56. > :55:00.being moved as pets and then traded commercially at the final

:55:01. > :55:05.destination. Between the introduction of pets in 2011 and

:55:06. > :55:07.2015, there has been an 850% increase in the number of dogs

:55:08. > :55:17.entering the UK from Lithuania alone. From Hungary, the increase of

:55:18. > :55:24.671%. From Romania, the increase was 2055%. As honourable members have

:55:25. > :55:28.already noted, puppies imported in this way are routinely bred in

:55:29. > :55:32.horrible conditions, taken from their mother when two young, and

:55:33. > :55:36.they endure long journeys of over 1000 miles. The welfare of the

:55:37. > :55:41.animals is severely compromised and many do not survive the journey.

:55:42. > :55:46.Witnesses identified three areas of concern, the age at which puppies

:55:47. > :55:50.were allowed into the UK, lack of enforcement checks by boardercross

:55:51. > :55:54.and poor intelligence sharing between UK enforcement agencies.

:55:55. > :56:01.Members of the public, when buying a puppy, want to buy a happy, healthy

:56:02. > :56:04.animal from a reputable source. But disreputable breeders are selling

:56:05. > :56:06.animals for huge profits without regard for the health and

:56:07. > :56:14.well-being, leaving families with congenitally unviable, sick animals.

:56:15. > :56:16.Witnesses told us that the pet animals act was thoroughly outdated

:56:17. > :56:23.and that there is a lack of clarity as to what is and is not licensable

:56:24. > :56:27.activity. Witnesses had differing opinions on how to deal with current

:56:28. > :56:30.problems about the sale of animals, with some calling for increased

:56:31. > :56:35.regulation and others calling for a ban on third-party sales. On this

:56:36. > :56:40.point, the RSPCA bizarrely changed its position several times during

:56:41. > :56:42.the enquiry. The charities dogs trust and bluegrass lobbied

:56:43. > :56:47.ministers directly in ways which appeared to promote their narrow

:56:48. > :56:53.business interests, rather than animal welfare issues, and

:56:54. > :56:56.disappointingly they chose not to answer my subsequent correspondence

:56:57. > :57:03.seeking clarity on their position. On this issue, there is no excuse or

:57:04. > :57:06.implausible argument or need for implausible arguments. The

:57:07. > :57:13.committee's recommendation to ban third-party sales is essential if

:57:14. > :57:16.unlicensed breeding, commercial breeding and illegal importation is

:57:17. > :57:20.to come to an abrupt end. By removing the opportunity to sell

:57:21. > :57:26.abused animals, that would address the issue. Advice to the public is

:57:27. > :57:30.simple. Never buy a puppy that is not with its mother. Those ignoring

:57:31. > :57:36.this advice are supporting horribly puppy farming and resumes of cruelty

:57:37. > :57:42.of epic proportions. I have come to conclusion. The subcommittee found

:57:43. > :57:48.that England and Wales has the lowest maximum custodial sentences

:57:49. > :57:53.in Europe for animal cruelty. Scotland has a maximum sentence

:57:54. > :57:55.double that of England and Wales and Northern Ireland is to be applauded

:57:56. > :58:00.for recently increasing their maximum limit to five years. Our

:58:01. > :58:07.witnesses expressed grave concern at sentencing powers under the welfare

:58:08. > :58:13.act 2006, that they are too low, neither recognising the serious this

:58:14. > :58:16.is the seriousness of the offence nor as a deterrent. It was noted at

:58:17. > :58:20.sentencing powers under the animal welfare act for England are some of

:58:21. > :58:29.the weakest in the international community. The RSPCA noted

:58:30. > :58:32.increasing inconsistency in sentences available in differing

:58:33. > :58:38.animal legislation in England. For example, the Law Commission recently

:58:39. > :58:44.recommended imprisonment for up to two years for cruelty towards

:58:45. > :58:48.wildlife. Under the crime and police act 2014, a person can be sentenced

:58:49. > :58:53.to three years if their dog injures a guide dog but only for six months

:58:54. > :58:56.if they beat their dog to death with a baseball bat in front of their

:58:57. > :59:02.children in their living room. If the same individual then dumped the

:59:03. > :59:06.courts illegally, they could be sentenced to five years for

:59:07. > :59:11.fly-tipping. If they stole the baseball bat, they could receive

:59:12. > :59:20.seven years for shoplifting. This is ridiculous and unacceptable. Defra

:59:21. > :59:25.responded the enquiry report on the 27th of January 2017 was the

:59:26. > :59:29.response began, we have the best animal welfare in the world and we

:59:30. > :59:36.are a nation of animal lovers. I say to the Minister, England has some of

:59:37. > :59:42.the crudest animal welfare in the world. If you really want to show

:59:43. > :59:44.respect animal lovers in England, of which there are very many, implement

:59:45. > :59:50.the select committee's recommendations. And you try and

:59:51. > :59:57.stick to nine minutes? We have a second debate we are not going to

:59:58. > :59:59.get in. Can I thank the member for Tiverton and monitoring for bringing

:00:00. > :00:05.this debate to the chamber, and for his continued chamber ship of the

:00:06. > :00:09.Defra select committee. We have had excellent contributions from both

:00:10. > :00:12.sides of the house today, including many from members of the select

:00:13. > :00:16.committee. I would like to speak broadly in favour of the

:00:17. > :00:18.recommendations of the committee. It is an excellent and thorough report

:00:19. > :00:25.and I recommend it to everyone to read. Having seen the RSPCA's

:00:26. > :00:28.response, I concur with their assessment of the recommendations

:00:29. > :00:33.and I would urge the government to pay heed. It has been said that

:00:34. > :00:38.Britain has the best animal welfare in the world. The animal welfare act

:00:39. > :00:41.2006 was a landmark piece of legislation, of which we in the

:00:42. > :00:46.Labour Party are very proud. Acting upon the report's recommendations

:00:47. > :00:49.would cement our position as world leader and ensure that these high

:00:50. > :00:55.standards of animal welfare are maintained. I'm going to touch on

:00:56. > :01:00.two main points in my remarks, areas which have been admirably covered by

:01:01. > :01:03.my honourable friend 's been members for Poplar and Limehouse. The first

:01:04. > :01:07.is that I agree with the committee and the RSPCA that the government

:01:08. > :01:14.should ban the third-party sale of dogs. Dogs should only be available

:01:15. > :01:22.from licensed, regulated breeders or approved re-homing organisations.

:01:23. > :01:26.The pet animal act of 1951 requires third-party sellers of dogs to hold

:01:27. > :01:30.a pet shop licence, but this licensing is not protecting the

:01:31. > :01:32.welfare of all dogs and the interests of consumers, so the

:01:33. > :01:37.current situation is not fit for purpose. Licensing must only be

:01:38. > :01:43.considered appropriate for third-party sales if it meets the

:01:44. > :01:48.welfare needs of puppies. It serves no purpose if it doesn't mitigate

:01:49. > :01:51.risks and prevent harm, so the only solution to protect the welfare of

:01:52. > :01:57.puppies is to ban third-party sales entirely. International studies have

:01:58. > :02:02.found that puppies obtained from pet shops were more likely to be

:02:03. > :02:07.aggressive towards people, fearful, prone to separation anxiety and

:02:08. > :02:10.infected with parasites and pathogens to a significant level.

:02:11. > :02:15.Behavioural problems are the most common cause of euthanasia in dogs

:02:16. > :02:19.under two years old, with the most common cause of fear and aggression

:02:20. > :02:24.being a lack of socialisation during the critical period of up to 16

:02:25. > :02:28.weeks old. Responsible breeders, by definition, will not sell puppies

:02:29. > :02:34.through third parties. The third-party licensed pet shop market

:02:35. > :02:39.depends on and sustains low welfare breeding. As long as there is a

:02:40. > :02:44.market for cheap, intensively bred puppies, welfare problems will

:02:45. > :02:47.persist because the incentives for noncompliance far exceed the

:02:48. > :02:51.potential penalties. We have heard about online sales from the

:02:52. > :02:56.honourable members for south and west and Taunton Deane, but we need

:02:57. > :03:00.to look at demand as well. That has been mentioned. And availability may

:03:01. > :03:08.artificially inflated demand. So reducing the supply of cheap, poorly

:03:09. > :03:13.bred puppies from dealers will promote a better culture. A ban is

:03:14. > :03:16.vital to protect the welfare of puppies, an essential first step in

:03:17. > :03:21.improving standards in high risk breeding establishments. When we

:03:22. > :03:25.bought our family dog, a lovely labrador called Max, we knew how to

:03:26. > :03:30.find him. We knew them to buy from. We knew where to find a responsible

:03:31. > :03:35.breeder. But not everybody knows, so we need to protect consumers from a

:03:36. > :03:39.responsible breeders and support people in a responsible purchase. We

:03:40. > :03:46.must ensure that animal welfare comes before profit.

:03:47. > :03:54.To enforce the animal welfare act. The government must ensure that give

:03:55. > :03:58.the authorities adequate resources with which to enforce these

:03:59. > :04:03.regulations. The other recommendation of the committee

:04:04. > :04:06.report I want to talk about is about increasing maximum penalties for

:04:07. > :04:11.animal welfare offences to five years. My honourable friend for

:04:12. > :04:15.Redcar as work with Battersea dogs and cats over and done a huge amount

:04:16. > :04:23.of work on this. I'm grateful for her contribution today and I'm proud

:04:24. > :04:33.to her campaign. Labour's animal welfare act created and amended a

:04:34. > :04:39.number of animal welfare of -- offences. Such offences carry a

:04:40. > :04:45.maximum penalty of six months imprisonment or an unlimited fine.

:04:46. > :04:55.The penalty was raised in 2015 to a maximum fine of ?25,000.

:04:56. > :05:01.Current sentencing guidelines issued by the independent sentencing

:05:02. > :05:05.council state the starting point for attempting to kill, torture or cause

:05:06. > :05:12.prolonged neglect and the permitting of fighting is an 18 week custodial

:05:13. > :05:16.sentence with a range of 12 to 26 weeks in custody. Unfortunately the

:05:17. > :05:19.government is yet to make any significant changes to ensure the

:05:20. > :05:25.punishment for animal cruelty reflect the gravity of the crime.

:05:26. > :05:29.The government should consider increasing magistrates sentencing

:05:30. > :05:34.powers and hearing the most serious cases of abuse at the Crown Court.

:05:35. > :05:40.Groups such as the league against cruel sports, RSPCA and Battersea

:05:41. > :05:44.dogs and cats homes have expressed concern about the sentences which do

:05:45. > :05:48.not appear to match the abuse suffered by the animals especially

:05:49. > :05:55.in the extreme case of cruelty such as dogfighting. My honourable friend

:05:56. > :05:59.mentioned sentencing and any sentences must reflect the

:06:00. > :06:04.seriousness of these crimes. The Labour manifesto of 2015 committed

:06:05. > :06:08.to improving protection for cats and dogs. We support the league against

:06:09. > :06:11.cruel sports dogfighting plan including bringing a national

:06:12. > :06:17.register of individuals banned from breeding dogs to be held by

:06:18. > :06:21.statutory agencies. And the RSPCA has run campaign is calling on the

:06:22. > :06:27.government to undertake a review of sentencing for animal cruelty under

:06:28. > :06:29.the animal welfare act 2006 and two amended to provide tougher

:06:30. > :06:36.sentencing for offences such as animal fighting. And if 752 people

:06:37. > :06:44.found guilty of causing or permitting unnecessary suffering to

:06:45. > :06:46.animals in 2014, only 76 received immediate custody and only half that

:06:47. > :06:53.number received a custodial sentence of more than three months. To finish

:06:54. > :06:58.I have a couple of Brexit related questions for the Minister. Will the

:06:59. > :07:02.Minister committed to maintaining all existing animal welfare

:07:03. > :07:05.legislation post-Brexit and as mentioned by the Right Honourable

:07:06. > :07:10.member for Chipping Barnet, does he agree that any trade deals struck a

:07:11. > :07:13.post Brexit must respect the high animal welfare standards of the UK

:07:14. > :07:17.and not undermine the ability of British farmers to compete at home?

:07:18. > :07:19.I look forward to the Minister's response and hope he will take on

:07:20. > :07:27.board the many excellent recommendations in this report.

:07:28. > :07:31.Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I would like to

:07:32. > :07:34.congratulate my honourable friend for securing this debate on a matter

:07:35. > :07:40.which affect so many of us and I would like to thank him for his

:07:41. > :07:45.select committee report into animal welfare in England which we are

:07:46. > :07:48.debating. Last month my department published proposals to overhaul the

:07:49. > :07:55.laws on a number of animal related licensing schemes. Schemes such as

:07:56. > :08:00.the regulations on pet vending, animal boarding, riding schools and

:08:01. > :08:04.dog breeding. The main aim of the changes we are proposing is to

:08:05. > :08:08.improve animal welfare and make the licensing schemes easier to enforce.

:08:09. > :08:12.I want to begin by talking about the issue of dog breeding which the

:08:13. > :08:15.number of Honourable members have raised and as my honourable friend

:08:16. > :08:19.will recall from the time I was on the select committee, I have long

:08:20. > :08:23.argued we should reduce the threshold before which people have

:08:24. > :08:27.to be licensed by local authorities to breed dogs and have argued this

:08:28. > :08:31.for some six months and it is a pleasure to make in a position in

:08:32. > :08:36.Defra long enough to see through something you have argued for. An

:08:37. > :08:40.included in our proposals are that anybody breeding and selling more

:08:41. > :08:45.than two litters in a 12 month period will need to be licensed by

:08:46. > :08:48.their local authority and this the effect of increasing substantially

:08:49. > :08:53.the number of dog breeders needing to be licensed by about 5000 per

:08:54. > :08:57.year. We are proposed that statutory conditions will be applied to all

:08:58. > :09:01.licensed establishments in relation to dog breeding and this will mean

:09:02. > :09:04.the basic standards taken from the model conditions and guidance for

:09:05. > :09:07.dog breeding establishments in relation to dog breeding and this

:09:08. > :09:08.will mean the basic standards taken from the model conditions and

:09:09. > :09:10.guidance for dog breeding establishment 2014, published by the

:09:11. > :09:12.chartered Institute for environmental health, it will be

:09:13. > :09:16.applied directly to all licensed breeders. We had in our constipation

:09:17. > :09:19.initially proposed there could be an exemption from requiring a license

:09:20. > :09:23.from breeders who signed up to accredited schemes. The committee

:09:24. > :09:29.and others expressed concern about going that far so we listened and

:09:30. > :09:35.modified the proposal to enable local authorities to recognise the

:09:36. > :09:41.risk and people signing up without removing entirely the need for a

:09:42. > :09:45.licence. I turned to the issue of the ban on selling dogs by third

:09:46. > :09:53.parties with a number of members have raised. I understand the desire

:09:54. > :09:56.to help potential buyers and the puppies should be seen with their

:09:57. > :10:00.mothers before the up purchased and Defra makes such a recommendation

:10:01. > :10:04.but I do think the specific proposal for an outright ban on all

:10:05. > :10:09.third-party sales is more problematic. For one thing we had to

:10:10. > :10:14.consider who would enforce this and how. Local authorities have the

:10:15. > :10:19.balance their local priorities and trying to establish whether a

:10:20. > :10:24.particular online advertiser with puppies is located in the area would

:10:25. > :10:26.commit integrable resources. We have already increased the burden on

:10:27. > :10:31.local authorities by clicking the number of people required to be

:10:32. > :10:35.licensed from 600 to some 5000 and the demand for dogs is also such

:10:36. > :10:38.that in our view there is a significant risk that an outright

:10:39. > :10:42.ban on third-party sales would simply drive the market underground.

:10:43. > :10:48.We have decided to address this problem in a different way. Through

:10:49. > :10:53.a tougher approach to licensing provisions and a tougher approach to

:10:54. > :10:58.enforcement of the provisions in the pet animals act. Firstly we are

:10:59. > :11:03.placing beyond any doubt that online commercial sellers need to have a

:11:04. > :11:09.licence. It is not a pet shop licence, it is a licence for animal

:11:10. > :11:15.sellers and we will make that absolutely clear in revisions to the

:11:16. > :11:18.licensing conditions. Secondly, as with dog breeders, we proposed that

:11:19. > :11:22.statutory conditions should be applied to all licensed pet sellers

:11:23. > :11:30.whether online or a shop Agbeze will be based on the Institute for

:11:31. > :11:37.environment model for conditions pet vending. -- and these will be based.

:11:38. > :11:42.Thirdly, as a condition of having such a licence, if they advertise

:11:43. > :11:46.online they will need to state in future there licence number and I

:11:47. > :11:50.believe this will be a particularly important thing to help with

:11:51. > :11:54.enforcement and I believe these steps taken to strengthen the

:11:55. > :11:57.licensing regime currently set out under the pet animals act goes a

:11:58. > :12:05.long way to addressing the concerns raised. A number of members raised

:12:06. > :12:09.the issue of puppies being brought through ports. I know there are

:12:10. > :12:14.concerns about the import of puppies for sales and this is an area where

:12:15. > :12:18.we take action. It is a condition of approval that the transport company

:12:19. > :12:22.checks 100% of all those pets declared to them for compliance to

:12:23. > :12:26.the current EU pet travel scheme. Stringent penalties are in place for

:12:27. > :12:31.those that breached the law by smuggling pet animals or using.

:12:32. > :12:34.Fermentation. The animal and Plant health agency has been conducting

:12:35. > :12:42.random audit checks on pet animals arriving into the GB since December

:12:43. > :12:47.2015 and the APHA, working with Kent County Council and though the police

:12:48. > :12:54.and with the dogs trust, have done work to identify underaged dogs and

:12:55. > :12:58.since that time 489 puppies have been seized and placed into

:12:59. > :13:02.quarantine kennels, the majority of whom were judged to be younger than

:13:03. > :13:05.the age given on their passports and we have taken action through our

:13:06. > :13:10.chief veterinary officer to escalate concerns in this area to authorities

:13:11. > :13:16.in the relevant countries from which the dogs came all stop we take this

:13:17. > :13:22.area very seriously. I turned to the crucial part of this debate, the

:13:23. > :13:24.issue of maximum penalties for animal welfare offences and the

:13:25. > :13:30.honourable member for Redcar gave some very touching examples and case

:13:31. > :13:37.is that I know she has seen in her constituency. I know that she and

:13:38. > :13:41.the member for Torbay both recently at a private members bills seeking

:13:42. > :13:45.to address this area and she expressed frustration that the whips

:13:46. > :13:50.had objected to her private members bill and I can say that she joins a

:13:51. > :13:53.very large and illustrious club of Honourable members who have faced

:13:54. > :14:01.such a thing including myself some years ago so she should not take it

:14:02. > :14:05.personally. I will say that this is fundamentally a matter for the

:14:06. > :14:08.Ministry of Justice but we work closely with them and at present the

:14:09. > :14:12.maximum penalty for that offence is it six months in prison or an

:14:13. > :14:19.unlimited fine or both. The unlimited fine was only raised from

:14:20. > :14:22.?20,000 in 2015. In addition offenders can be discovered not only

:14:23. > :14:26.from owning animals but from having influence over the weight and animal

:14:27. > :14:32.is kept for as long as the court sees fit. This is an important point

:14:33. > :14:37.because it moves on from just owning an animal to also things like

:14:38. > :14:42.arranging transport. The garden is in regular contact with the Ministry

:14:43. > :14:46.of Justice to discuss the issue of maximum sentences -- Lord Gardiner.

:14:47. > :14:49.Current sentencing does not suggest that the court are finding

:14:50. > :14:53.sentencing powers inadequate, that is to say that changing the maximum

:14:54. > :14:58.sentence will not make a difference if courts consider a lower sentence

:14:59. > :15:03.appropriate but I can inform the house that the sentencing council

:15:04. > :15:06.has recently reviewed the magistrate court sentencing guidelines

:15:07. > :15:11.including those in relation to animal cruelty. The sentencing

:15:12. > :15:15.council's revised guidance on their website which will become effective

:15:16. > :15:19.in May will allow magistrates more is Plex ability as regards to

:15:20. > :15:25.imposing penalties to the upper end of the scale. I will ensure that the

:15:26. > :15:30.representations made by members for a change in the legislation to allow

:15:31. > :15:34.higher maximum penalties is relate to colleagues in government. I want

:15:35. > :15:40.to turn to some of the other points that were raised. There was the

:15:41. > :15:46.issue of an animal abuse register and this is something that the

:15:47. > :15:50.police are giving consideration to, to how they can improve access to

:15:51. > :15:53.the register they have already. The police National computer provides a

:15:54. > :15:58.searchable single source of locally held police operational information

:15:59. > :16:01.and there is an existing functionality for a police officer

:16:02. > :16:09.to apply a person market which can deal with this issue. -- marker. He

:16:10. > :16:12.raised the issue of enforcement and we are in discussion with the

:16:13. > :16:17.national companies animal focus group to develop standards of

:16:18. > :16:18.competency to raise all local authorities to the level of the best

:16:19. > :16:28.all . The issue was also raised of the

:16:29. > :16:37.pet advertising standards group and I would like to pay tribute to the

:16:38. > :16:42.six website groups for signing up to that. In many cases these

:16:43. > :16:47.organisations automatically e-mail guidance on keeping pets to people

:16:48. > :16:49.when they have a particular search. In other cases like

:16:50. > :16:57.they take down adverts from people doing repeat sales and high velocity

:16:58. > :17:09.sales and it is working with these organisations that we can make some

:17:10. > :17:12.good progress -- Gumtree. The issue of farm animal welfare was raised

:17:13. > :17:17.which I know we have covered before and discussed previously and as I

:17:18. > :17:25.explained previously it is a manifesto commitment for us to

:17:26. > :17:35.reflect farm animal welfare in our future policy. I'm conscious of time

:17:36. > :17:41.so in final conclusion, two members raised the issue of education. We

:17:42. > :17:46.are through our consultation planning to place a requirement to

:17:47. > :17:48.give guidance from pet sellers to people for certain pets,

:17:49. > :17:55.particularly in exotic pets, and there is guidance already in the

:17:56. > :18:03.current school curriculum relating to pet animals. Thank you, Mr Deputy

:18:04. > :18:06.Speaker, and I'm fortunate in jamming the Defra select committee

:18:07. > :18:09.having great members of the committee who are supportive and

:18:10. > :18:12.were attending and we have had five members this afternoon who have

:18:13. > :18:15.entered this debate and I thank everybody else from all sides of the

:18:16. > :18:20.house for their contributions because I think we have been a very

:18:21. > :18:27.united force today, very much in wanting stiffer sentencing, in

:18:28. > :18:33.wanting a third-party ban on sales of puppies and we also want to make

:18:34. > :18:37.sure that those puppies coming in imported through our ports are

:18:38. > :18:42.stopped so we don't bring illegal puppies into the country. We do want

:18:43. > :18:46.stiffer sentencing and I'm very much thankful to the Minister for his

:18:47. > :18:52.support but I want more from the government, stronger sentencing and

:18:53. > :18:57.action, are also thank the support on the Shadow Minister. I feel we

:18:58. > :19:01.have had a really good debate. I think all the members for the

:19:02. > :19:06.support of the report. We need action now from the animal welfare

:19:07. > :19:11.act that is now ten years old, there needs a lot of typing up. We are a

:19:12. > :19:16.nation that loves animals but unfortunately there are people out

:19:17. > :19:19.there who don't and those have to be dealt with strongly. All members

:19:20. > :19:25.across all sides of the house I made that point very clear.

:19:26. > :19:37.Finally I want to thank the Kennel Club and several others for helping

:19:38. > :19:40.to put this report together, give us evidence and I look forward to the

:19:41. > :19:47.government taking either greater action than they already have on our

:19:48. > :19:53.report, thank you. The question is as on the order papers, as many of

:19:54. > :20:02.that opinion is a aye. Of the country no. The aye's habit. We now

:20:03. > :20:07.come to the debates on matters to be raised before the forthcoming

:20:08. > :20:11.adjournment. Thank you, I beg to move this house is considered

:20:12. > :20:17.matters to be raised before the forthcoming adjournment. I speak

:20:18. > :20:23.today as the chair of the backbench business committee and on that note

:20:24. > :20:27.I would like to add my thanks to my esteemed colleague the menu for

:20:28. > :20:33.Harrow East who has so eloquently filled this spot on a couple of

:20:34. > :20:37.previous occasions on my behalf. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have heard

:20:38. > :20:43.time and time again that we must spend within our means and cutting

:20:44. > :20:46.public expenditure as necessary to bring down the deficit, and Madam

:20:47. > :20:50.Deputy Speaker I am not just the chair of the backbench business

:20:51. > :20:54.committee I am also the member of Parliament for Gateshead and I'm

:20:55. > :20:58.afraid to say Gateshead has not been doing well from the programme of

:20:59. > :21:03.public expenditure cuts the government has been engaged in.

:21:04. > :21:07.Slashing public services and increasing the complexity of our

:21:08. > :21:11.social security system is necessary to pave the way for the countrywide

:21:12. > :21:17.prosperity in years to come, we are told. But if I may I would like to

:21:18. > :21:21.offer some home truths, facts and figures from my constituency. My

:21:22. > :21:26.local authority in Gateshead will have a ?92 million gap in their

:21:27. > :21:31.funding by 2021, real and damaging further cuts will have to be made

:21:32. > :21:35.and there is no doubt my already suffering constituents will face

:21:36. > :21:39.more misery. Our unemployment rate is twice that of the national

:21:40. > :21:44.average and the average weekly pay for a constituent in Gateshead is

:21:45. > :21:49.?20 less than the regional average in the north-east and ?70 less than

:21:50. > :21:55.the United Kingdom average and 26.8% of our children are living in

:21:56. > :22:01.poverty. Mr Speaker in Gateshead this is just the tip of the iceberg,

:22:02. > :22:04.significant numbers of my constituents are underemployed, in

:22:05. > :22:08.part-time work, and zero hours contracts or juggling multiple

:22:09. > :22:14.part-time jobs to make ends meet. Madam Deputy Speaker, with many of

:22:15. > :22:17.the families in my constituency living in poverty there are also

:22:18. > :22:23.many living just above the bread line also struggling and they are

:22:24. > :22:26.not just about managing, they are really struggling, many of my

:22:27. > :22:33.constituents. I appreciate that I have so half painted a bleak picture

:22:34. > :22:39.of my constituency but it would be remiss of me not to do so because I

:22:40. > :22:45.am constantly away from my casework that this is the fact of life facing

:22:46. > :22:49.so many people. There are of course some wonderful organisations and

:22:50. > :22:54.people in Gateshead in a wide array of different cultures. Just last

:22:55. > :23:00.week our annual single day of unbroken sunshine, I had the

:23:01. > :23:08.pleasure of walking from the hard of Gateshead down towards the gates,

:23:09. > :23:12.through the music centre and the quayside by the Baltic Centre for

:23:13. > :23:16.contemporary art. Madam Deputy Speaker I could have been forgiven

:23:17. > :23:20.for thinking I was on a tourist trap in any number destinations around

:23:21. > :23:27.the world. Madam Deputy Speaker Gateshead is a place is a great

:23:28. > :23:32.place to live and work if you have a well-paid job. The quality of life

:23:33. > :23:38.can be very, very good indeed. We are close to the countryside, we are

:23:39. > :23:43.close to the coast, we have the nightlife in the Newcastle Gateshead

:23:44. > :23:50.conurbation. It could be for those in work we have probably some of the

:23:51. > :23:54.best quality of life in any part of the country. Madam Deputy Speaker

:23:55. > :23:57.Gateshead remains a hive of multiculturalism also. Only three

:23:58. > :24:06.weeks ago the Jewish community where I live celebrated an event, the

:24:07. > :24:12.youngsters from the community really going to town as it where and

:24:13. > :24:16.encouraged to do so, it's a fantastic event and I live literally

:24:17. > :24:20.in the heart of that community. It is an event enjoyed not only by

:24:21. > :24:25.those who participate but by those in the community who appreciate the

:24:26. > :24:29.benefits of that diversity. Earlier this month along with students from

:24:30. > :24:33.the national citizenship service I pressed the button to tell the

:24:34. > :24:36.millennium Bridge to celebrate the fantastic opportunities offered to

:24:37. > :24:44.young people in Gateshead and across the north-east. Happy to give way.

:24:45. > :24:48.He just mentioned the Gateshead millennium Bridge, does that go from

:24:49. > :24:53.Gateshead and Newcastle but it is the Gateshead will any bridge? It is

:24:54. > :25:02.indeed and I will come on to that in a moment. In my constituency the NCS

:25:03. > :25:05.are oversubscribed for this year 's programme for the summer placements

:25:06. > :25:11.and they are a credit to my constituency, the young people

:25:12. > :25:16.involved in that programme. Yes the Gateshead millennium Bridge is a

:25:17. > :25:20.magnificent feat of engineering, it truly is an iconic landmark. On the

:25:21. > :25:25.Newcastle side of the bridge is a glass structure upon which the words

:25:26. > :25:29.Gateshead millennium Bridge are emblazoned and it will be on that

:25:30. > :25:34.Newcastle side of the river, a little piece of Gateshead in a

:25:35. > :25:38.foreign land, it will be forever Gateshead. It is one of the most

:25:39. > :25:43.impressive achievements, a bridge which by its very nature has managed

:25:44. > :25:48.to secure that foothold of Gateshead on the Newcastle side of the river.

:25:49. > :25:52.Some members will appreciate the importance of that to us who are

:25:53. > :25:57.from the Gateshead side. I also continue to cheer the governing body

:25:58. > :26:04.of one of my local primary schools, Kelvingrove, a school in the heart

:26:05. > :26:09.of Gateshead which was rated good by Ofsted only a couple of months ago.

:26:10. > :26:12.There are an array of cultures, a significant proportion of students

:26:13. > :26:17.have English as a second language and in total at the last count there

:26:18. > :26:23.were 27 different languages spoken by the pupils. I am sure members of

:26:24. > :26:26.the house will agree that was the mix of languages poses different

:26:27. > :26:30.difficulties and complexities in terms of the learning environment

:26:31. > :26:33.there is no doubt this level of diversity has also a significant

:26:34. > :26:40.positive effect on education of all of our young people in that

:26:41. > :26:44.neighbourhood. It's a great place to live in many respects. Madam Deputy

:26:45. > :26:51.Speaker with further funding cuts education, the consistent problems

:26:52. > :26:55.we have heard about over the winter in the NHS across the country and

:26:56. > :26:59.the localisation of business rates which has a negative impact on a

:27:00. > :27:02.region like the north-east of England with the 12 local

:27:03. > :27:06.authorities looking to lose something like ?300 million through

:27:07. > :27:13.that process whilst Westminster if we believe the figures would on its

:27:14. > :27:20.own gain over ?409, we can see that has a different impact in different

:27:21. > :27:23.parts of the world, with all this going on my constituents have little

:27:24. > :27:26.hope of benefiting from some of the measures of prosperity we are told

:27:27. > :27:31.other parts of the country are enjoying or are going to enjoy.

:27:32. > :27:36.Sadly when the Prime Minister pledges a country which works for

:27:37. > :27:40.everyone clearly our definition of everyone is somewhat different

:27:41. > :27:46.because the impact of what is going on is very different in different

:27:47. > :27:50.places. I have and I will continue to highlight some of these

:27:51. > :27:55.injustices in this house and anyone else who can understand who I am

:27:56. > :28:00.seeing, but I wish to take this opportunity to highlight some of the

:28:01. > :28:04.great things in Gateshead despite some elements of government policy

:28:05. > :28:09.which are impacting detrimentally upon us. With colleagues from the

:28:10. > :28:12.education select committee I had the pleasure of visiting Gateshead

:28:13. > :28:18.College just a couple of weeks ago and despite significant cuts to

:28:19. > :28:22.funding the principal and her team have insured Gateshead College

:28:23. > :28:27.remains one of the best further education colleges in the country

:28:28. > :28:30.and was rated last year as outstanding by Ofsted. It's

:28:31. > :28:33.imperative communities like Gateshead have institutions that

:28:34. > :28:38.have the ability to train our future workforce in an environment which

:28:39. > :28:42.gives our young people the very best opportunity to succeed going forward

:28:43. > :28:46.into their working life. Gateshead College with its rich and diverse

:28:47. > :28:50.offer is a fine example of this and I am proud to have them and

:28:51. > :28:55.represent them in my constituency. Turning back to local government for

:28:56. > :28:57.a moment, significant cuts to the revenue support grant have forced

:28:58. > :29:03.local authorities to come up with ever more creative ways to plug the

:29:04. > :29:06.holes and budgets and help other local economy. I was delighted to

:29:07. > :29:13.see the Minister for industry and energy visit Gateshead earlier this

:29:14. > :29:15.month to open the ?18 million Gateshead district energy Centre

:29:16. > :29:21.which uses technology to the cycle heat from energy generation and uses

:29:22. > :29:26.it to heat homes, businesses and water throughout the centre of

:29:27. > :29:30.Gateshead. It is hoped the scheme will provide local homes and

:29:31. > :29:32.businesses with affordable energy as well as making Gateshead and

:29:33. > :29:39.attractive place for more businesses to invest taking advantage of the

:29:40. > :29:43.low energy cost. I hope all members of the house will join me in

:29:44. > :29:46.congratulating Gateshead Council for taking the bold step to self fund

:29:47. > :29:52.the entire project for the benefit of local residents and businesses

:29:53. > :29:56.and employers. Madam Deputy Speaker in Gateshead on my constituents are

:29:57. > :30:01.very fortunate, we have a fantastic hospital trust who provide excellent

:30:02. > :30:05.services and care for all of their patients and I wish to place on

:30:06. > :30:09.record my thanks to not only the staff of the Queen Elizabeth

:30:10. > :30:13.Hospital but all staff in the NHS across Gateshead and the north-east

:30:14. > :30:17.for their unreserved commitment and dedication to ensuring every person

:30:18. > :30:22.of every background is afforded the care of the very much deserved.

:30:23. > :30:27.Colleagues will have been aware that I have had to use the services of

:30:28. > :30:34.the NHS in my constituency and I personally would like to place on

:30:35. > :30:34.record my thanks to my GP and my physiotherapist for greatly

:30:35. > :30:51.accelerating my recovery in conclusion I wish to pay

:30:52. > :30:54.tribute to the outstanding work the voluntary sector do and a daily

:30:55. > :30:58.basis to help my constituents who often have nowhere else to turn,

:30:59. > :31:08.whether it be benefit sanctions, Palmer centres or illness,

:31:09. > :31:13.organisations and individuals across Gateshead put their lives on hold to

:31:14. > :31:18.ensure those most vulnerable in our community receive the help and

:31:19. > :31:21.support the most desperately need. Madam Deputy Speaker the unsung

:31:22. > :31:26.heroes in our community and I would like to thank them for everything

:31:27. > :31:30.they do. The north-east has a proud track record of donating to charity

:31:31. > :31:37.despite the relatively low incomes people live on. Our record in terms

:31:38. > :31:43.of the needing to things like the Red Nose Day or children's in need

:31:44. > :31:51.of that exceed the national bodies expectations. And indeed despite low

:31:52. > :31:55.incomes and poverty we actually have very successful food bank

:31:56. > :31:59.collections, the points are often overflowing with food often donated

:32:00. > :32:06.by families who are struggling themselves. Sadly despite the

:32:07. > :32:08.generosity of my constituents and others across the north-east

:32:09. > :32:14.organisations providing often vital support to those most in need

:32:15. > :32:17.continue to find themselves short of resources so as much as my

:32:18. > :32:21.constituents already give I ask them from the floor of the House of

:32:22. > :32:25.Commons to carry on and give more, it is needed. I open the debate and

:32:26. > :32:30.look forward to the speeches of honourable members from both sides

:32:31. > :32:34.of the house and before I conclude, could I wish you, the staff of the

:32:35. > :32:40.house and all honourable members are very happy Easter, thank you. The

:32:41. > :32:44.question is that this house has considered matters to be raised

:32:45. > :32:48.before the forthcoming adjournment, can I say like in the last debate if

:32:49. > :32:52.people stay within the eight minute limit everyone will get in and then

:32:53. > :32:57.we can have plenty of time for windups, eight minutes, it's not an

:32:58. > :33:04.imposed limit but I guidance to members, Bob Blackman.

:33:05. > :33:10.It is a pleasure to follow my honourable friend as chairman of the

:33:11. > :33:15.backbench business committee and I look forward to passing through his

:33:16. > :33:20.constituency over the Gateshead millennium Bridge on my way next

:33:21. > :33:26.season when Newcastle return to the Premier League as no doubt they will

:33:27. > :33:30.at the end of this season. I got myself into trouble a little while

:33:31. > :33:39.ago by being pleased I would not have to make that journey again

:33:40. > :33:43.but... Don't jinx them! I think even Newcastle would find it difficult

:33:44. > :33:49.not to get promoted after this season. Madam Deputy Speaker come in

:33:50. > :33:54.two years' time we will be celebrating Britain's freedom from

:33:55. > :34:01.the yoke of the European Union when we celebrate the pre-recess

:34:02. > :34:06.adjournment at Easter and that might speech will be about unfinished

:34:07. > :34:11.business as we rise for the Easter recess. I'm delighted to say that

:34:12. > :34:18.Mike homelessness reduction Bill had its third reading in the other place

:34:19. > :34:22.last Thursday and now awaits royal assent from Her Majesty the Queen. I

:34:23. > :34:28.would like to place on record my thanks to Lord best who managed to

:34:29. > :34:32.ensure the smooth passage of the bill in the other place and we can

:34:33. > :34:38.look forward to it becoming law in the not too distant future.

:34:39. > :34:42.Obviously DCLG are doing the necessary work to prepare local

:34:43. > :34:47.authorities for their duties under the new act and this will be

:34:48. > :34:52.something that will advantage homeless people up and down the

:34:53. > :34:59.country for evermore I trust. I would also like to place my thanks

:35:00. > :35:03.and appreciation to Glenn Mickey, as both clerk to the public bill office

:35:04. > :35:07.and the communities and local government select committee, who is

:35:08. > :35:12.retiring after 34 years of service. He gave brilliant help and

:35:13. > :35:15.assistance in ensuring we did everything needed to get that

:35:16. > :35:26.private members bill through the process. On unfinished business, we

:35:27. > :35:30.had a wonderful debate last week on equitable life. I had the privilege

:35:31. > :35:35.of co-chairing the all-party group on justice for Equitable Life

:35:36. > :35:42.policyholders which now has more than 230 MPs as members. I will not

:35:43. > :35:51.go over that debate but let us be quite clear, we will not stop until

:35:52. > :35:56.such time as every single individual who suffered as a result of that

:35:57. > :36:02.scam is properly compensated as they would expect to be. It has to be as

:36:03. > :36:07.a debt of honour as the government and indeed I think it sends the

:36:08. > :36:11.wrong sort of signals to young people in this country at a time

:36:12. > :36:17.when we're asking them to save for their old age that when it proven

:36:18. > :36:21.beyond doubt that the regulator, Equitable Life, and the Treasury

:36:22. > :36:26.knew about the scam but did nothing about it, that they are sending a

:36:27. > :36:31.signal that they will not compensate those people that suffered. We have

:36:32. > :36:36.to right that wrong. I am also chairman of the all-party group on