19/04/2017

:00:31. > :00:38.The Ten Minute Rule Motion, Mr David Burrowes.

:00:39. > :00:43.Mr Speaker, I beg to move that we've be given to bring any bill to look

:00:44. > :00:51.at the assessment and enforcement of child assessment arrangements. I

:00:52. > :00:57.welcome the great interest and attendance of honourable members for

:00:58. > :01:01.my bill but feel like a filler in the summit of the Prime Minister.

:01:02. > :01:05.The attention will be focused on the next motion rather than on my bill,

:01:06. > :01:09.however, many parents have waited all too long for the child

:01:10. > :01:13.maintenance for their children and will not let a general election get

:01:14. > :01:18.in the way of their campaign. The campaign message at the heart of my

:01:19. > :01:22.bill, the use the parlance of the Prime Minister is that we need a

:01:23. > :01:26.Child Maintenance Service that will work for everyone, not just the

:01:27. > :01:32.privileged few. This issue... Order. Stop the clock. I appreciate the

:01:33. > :01:38.interest in other matters, but the subject matter of the honourable

:01:39. > :01:41.gentleman's Bill is of very great importance to shoot numbers of

:01:42. > :01:46.parents and children around the country and I think it is to put it

:01:47. > :01:50.mildly unseemly that while the honourable gentleman is speaking of

:01:51. > :01:53.his bill, there are a number of rather animated private

:01:54. > :01:58.conversations taking place, including those being conducted by

:01:59. > :02:01.those enormously courteous members of the House, so as they house can

:02:02. > :02:03.settle down and listen to the eloquence of the honourable

:02:04. > :02:09.gentleman, I think we would all be grateful for that.

:02:10. > :02:15.It is also an issue across different parties but has been Andy Cole of

:02:16. > :02:19.the Tory Party this that the government that recognises the

:02:20. > :02:24.principle that all parents have responsibility to contribute to the

:02:25. > :02:28.upkeep of children. The state will step in where necessary. It is

:02:29. > :02:33.therefore parents in need of child maintenance who have nowhere else to

:02:34. > :02:37.turn. As such, it must cater for all children, including those whose

:02:38. > :02:40.parents are self-employed, who have complex financial affairs. Mr

:02:41. > :02:45.Speaker, my interest in this issue has arisen from the case of my

:02:46. > :02:49.constituent Elizabeth who is in attendance today. As well as four

:02:50. > :02:52.other equally and brave determined women, which may honourable friend

:02:53. > :02:57.refers to as super mums, there will be other people with very similar

:02:58. > :03:04.like-minded women that have come to their surgery. Others include

:03:05. > :03:07.Joanne, Sue and Kate who have pursued their cases for years and

:03:08. > :03:10.could write the text on how nonresident parents could easily a

:03:11. > :03:15.data system by claiming self-employment. The challenge in

:03:16. > :03:22.the system of assets and lifestyle incompatible with earnings have been

:03:23. > :03:28.removed and done so any process. It is these flaws that have led me to

:03:29. > :03:32.introduce this bill and to have an inquiry into the CMS which is due to

:03:33. > :03:36.report imminently. The fact of the matter is if your child has a

:03:37. > :03:39.nonresident parent that is self employed, you are at risk of being

:03:40. > :03:47.financially disadvantaged compared to a child whose nonresident parent

:03:48. > :03:49.is employed. Nonresident self-employed parents are being

:03:50. > :03:52.indulged by DCMS. The government's defends the discharge of injustice

:03:53. > :03:57.is that closing the loopholes, which enables such child maintenance

:03:58. > :04:00.avoidance is, I quote, expensive and time-consuming to do so. However,

:04:01. > :04:05.the government does not take such a relaxed attitude when it comes to

:04:06. > :04:09.individuals who avoid paying benefits or indeed taxes. The HMRC

:04:10. > :04:13.56,000 strong tax collecting department with an annual budget of

:04:14. > :04:17.over ?4 billion, if this money fails to get a grip of nonresident parents

:04:18. > :04:24.who hide their income from the CMS by exploiting legal loopholes. It is

:04:25. > :04:27.welcome that the DWP has beefed up its financial investigations unit to

:04:28. > :04:31.a team of 50 and it is good that the Minister of welfare delivery is

:04:32. > :04:34.listening today and said to the Work and Pensions Select Committee that

:04:35. > :04:38.they have powers to look Pike accounts and tax records and seek to

:04:39. > :04:43.clarify where things just do not add up. Mr Speaker, I do not believe

:04:44. > :04:47.this is good enough. Children should not be paying the price for the

:04:48. > :04:50.ongoing injustice over child maintenance, there is an estimated

:04:51. > :04:53.52 and a half million unpaid maintenance which means that fewer

:04:54. > :04:59.than half of eligible children do not receive anything at all. Now,

:05:00. > :05:06.Elizabeth's Sun is one of those who should not be paying for the ?40,000

:05:07. > :05:10.price of what he is owed over six years in child maintenance. Simply

:05:11. > :05:15.because his father as a clever accountant who can help to hide his

:05:16. > :05:18.assets in non-income gearing accounts, businesses and property.

:05:19. > :05:21.This maintenance liability would not have been uncovered without the

:05:22. > :05:26.determination of his mother Elizabeth taking the case under the

:05:27. > :05:30.old system through the tribunal hearings and relying on the old rule

:05:31. > :05:35.which allows for assets variation. They eventually revealed that the

:05:36. > :05:38.other parent's assets valuing some ?800,000 from the sale of various

:05:39. > :05:44.businesses and inheritance. And found that he could pay regularly

:05:45. > :05:48.seen SPA maintenance to support their teenage son. The problem that

:05:49. > :05:55.my bill seeks to resolve is that under the 2012 CMS scheme, the same

:05:56. > :05:59.parents are held to legitimately have e-mailed child maintenance

:06:00. > :06:04.liability, it was then 40,000, it would now be zero. Based largely on

:06:05. > :06:08.gross taxable income figures provided by HMRC. This model I

:06:09. > :06:14.accept works for the majority of straightforward cases, were paying

:06:15. > :06:18.parents all income should be PAYE employment, it works less well with

:06:19. > :06:22.the peeing payment -- parents takes payment and other forms. That does

:06:23. > :06:24.not work at all when the peeing parent's living costs are met

:06:25. > :06:31.through income that does not show up at HMRC. Income from ISAs, venture

:06:32. > :06:35.capitalists trust funds and there are some nonresident parents who

:06:36. > :06:40.support their lifestyle from different incomes, for example, from

:06:41. > :06:43.substantial assets with no apparent income, capital gains from property

:06:44. > :06:44.transactions. Such paying parents have no child maintenance liability

:06:45. > :06:57.at all. And what it will all civil cases but

:06:58. > :07:01.more complicated is weak and leads to injustice. This injustice is

:07:02. > :07:05.compounded by the 2012 rules not only abolishing the grounds to

:07:06. > :07:09.challenge assessments but although cutting of the avenue for address

:07:10. > :07:12.through the courts. The governments's responds to my

:07:13. > :07:17.constituent Elizabeth is that the assets and ground for variation

:07:18. > :07:21.proved difficult to a minister and difficult for them to understand.

:07:22. > :07:25.What has proved difficult for my constituent, Elizabeth, is to obtain

:07:26. > :07:29.justice for the maintenance of her son. What is difficult for a lot of

:07:30. > :07:34.the understand is why the state have chosen to prioritise its own

:07:35. > :07:38.administrative convenience of the interest of her child. The work and

:07:39. > :07:41.pensions like an easy enquiry into this issue has heard evidence from

:07:42. > :07:43.parents with other nonresident parent is having a lifestyle does

:07:44. > :07:47.not match the nonresident parent is having a lifestyle does not matter

:07:48. > :07:51.because income. This will go to the HMRC and contact them on their top

:07:52. > :07:55.line, only to be left in limbo because nonresident parents are not

:07:56. > :07:58.committing tax fraud part are avoiding child maintenance because

:07:59. > :08:03.they can hide by their self-employed status. They have organised their

:08:04. > :08:09.affairs in an efficient manner, putting income in terms of not

:08:10. > :08:14.earnings. What mums net was told by one mother was to accept a payment

:08:15. > :08:19.from my ex as he was self-employed and he was the best she could hope

:08:20. > :08:23.for. Regardless of evidence he could pay more from a very successful

:08:24. > :08:28.business, multiple properties and, in her words, more physical access

:08:29. > :08:34.than you could imagine. -- asset. Vienna where has said Britain was my

:08:35. > :08:36.child maintenance of the contributing to a culture where to

:08:37. > :08:40.many parents think it is optional relatively Tory to pay their child

:08:41. > :08:49.maintenance. -- rather than obligatory. One person can avoid

:08:50. > :08:53.paying child maintenance because one tax year removed liability. Why?

:08:54. > :09:01.Because in that yeah, he bought a crock. The CMS should not allow the

:09:02. > :09:06.financial access of a crock to come before a child. The state should not

:09:07. > :09:09.be accessible. -- truck. The woman has an eye on the self-employed you

:09:10. > :09:18.make the tax system work everyone. That should include the Child

:09:19. > :09:20.Maintenance System as well. The CMS should not cater for Company

:09:21. > :09:25.directors and those are financially public affairs. The grounds

:09:26. > :09:28.previously available within the scheme, whereby notional income

:09:29. > :09:33.could be assumed, where a paying parent's lifestyle was assumed,

:09:34. > :09:39.should be available within a new scheme. A new variation garage

:09:40. > :09:46.available with a scheme where -- ground. Capable of providing

:09:47. > :09:50.reasonable level of return where a parent can do this with good reason,

:09:51. > :09:54.bearing in mind the maintenance responsibility for the children. My

:09:55. > :09:57.bill will also grant equal jurisdiction where nonresident

:09:58. > :10:01.parents and assets or a lifestyle inconsistent with income and the CMS

:10:02. > :10:07.is unable or incapable of determining the support. While my

:10:08. > :10:11.bill originally comes at the end of this Parliament, it may just help

:10:12. > :10:16.from the publication in the spring report to set up conclusions of a

:10:17. > :10:20.review into the progress of CMS and state future policy. In 2012, the

:10:21. > :10:27.noble lord flight said we will make clear our intentions with specific

:10:28. > :10:31.review to the these parents. That one could be called families of

:10:32. > :10:39.which the fee would seek to exempt. The campaign was led, saying child

:10:40. > :10:42.maintenance crew had left families out of poverty. The lack of child

:10:43. > :10:46.maintenance should be another burning justice for the covenant to

:10:47. > :10:49.tackle. Given the next notion, I appreciate that Dell is the least

:10:50. > :10:56.likely ever to become law in this parliamentary session. Some may

:10:57. > :10:58.think, sit down, get on with the general election motion. There is

:10:59. > :11:04.every point in highlighting on behalf of our constituents calling

:11:05. > :11:10.for unfairness to children. This may be an early bid for the Conservative

:11:11. > :11:18.manifesto. It may also be aim more public bid for the next Queen 's

:11:19. > :11:22.speech. Either way, I look forward to a fairer child maintenance system

:11:23. > :11:34.for all. The question is that the honourable gentleman have leave to

:11:35. > :11:41.bring any bill. As many who are supportive, ayes. The ayes habit.

:11:42. > :11:53.Caroline spell and Timothy Mapleton, Tanya Mathias. Those working ani,

:11:54. > :12:17.Nigel Adams and get my tells and me. -- Kit Martells. Mr David Burrowes.

:12:18. > :12:28.Child maintenance assessment of parent income bail. Second reading,

:12:29. > :12:33.what day? The 12th of May, I suppose.

:12:34. > :12:39.LAUGHTER I shall delete the last two words

:12:40. > :12:47.ordered uttered by the honourable gentleman. The 12th of May. We now

:12:48. > :12:51.come to the bill on the moving the notion of the parliamentary General

:12:52. > :12:55.election. Moving the notion, I call the Prime Minister. Thank you, and I

:12:56. > :12:59.beg to move motion on the order paper in my name and that of my

:13:00. > :13:04.honourable friends. That's mentioned confronts every member of this house

:13:05. > :13:08.with a clear and simple opportunity. A chance to vote for a general

:13:09. > :13:11.election that will secure the strong and stable leadership the country

:13:12. > :13:17.needs to see us through Brexit and beyond. It invites each one of us to

:13:18. > :13:24.do the right thing for Britain and duvet for an election that is in our

:13:25. > :13:28.country's national interest. -- to vote. My priority as Prime Minister

:13:29. > :13:32.when I became so that was to present the country with strong leadership

:13:33. > :13:34.after the long and passionately fought referendum campaign. This

:13:35. > :13:45.covenant has delivered on those priorities. -- Government.

:13:46. > :13:49.Despite... I will. In the time-honoured fashion, my honourable

:13:50. > :13:52.friend has called this election in what she and I consider to be in the

:13:53. > :13:57.national interest. It'll be a brave man or woman who votes against this

:13:58. > :14:05.notion and therefore the fixed term Parliament act is an emperor without

:14:06. > :14:11.clothes. It sees no purpose. Will the first line they, in our

:14:12. > :14:15.manifesto, to scrap its? My honourable friend is trying to tempt

:14:16. > :14:17.me down a road about the fixed Jim Parliament act does give us an

:14:18. > :14:24.opportunity notwithstanding the fixed term element of it to have

:14:25. > :14:28.another election at another time. -- fixed term. The house you doubt on

:14:29. > :14:36.that. Every member of this house should vote for it. If I just

:14:37. > :14:39.returned to, I will take one more... The Prime Minister pledged time and

:14:40. > :14:44.time again not to call an early election. In her Easter message, she

:14:45. > :14:47.spoke of Christian values. Gucci explain why he has such a ruse and

:14:48. > :14:57.promulgated relationship with telling the truth? -- such a

:14:58. > :15:01.complicated relationship. The Prime Minister can tend for herself, but

:15:02. > :15:10.what the honourable gentleman has said is a breach. He is a

:15:11. > :15:17.journalist. Withdraw that and use some other formulation if you must.

:15:18. > :15:21.I am very happy. I will withdraw and reformulate. Why does the Prime

:15:22. > :15:26.Minister have such a complicated and loose relationship with giving the

:15:27. > :15:34.country a clear indication of her intentions? To say to the honourable

:15:35. > :15:39.gentleman, yesterday, I gave the country a very clear indication of

:15:40. > :15:43.my intentions and if he has a little patience, he will head the reasons

:15:44. > :15:46.why I have done that. As I was saying, the Government has delivered

:15:47. > :15:53.on the priorities I set out last year. Despite immediate predictions

:15:54. > :15:57.of immediate economic and financial danger, we have recognised that of

:15:58. > :16:00.jobs, a telegram exceeding all expectations. At the same time, we

:16:01. > :16:04.have delivered on the mandate we were handed by the referendum result

:16:05. > :16:10.by triggering article 50 before the end of March as he pledged to do. As

:16:11. > :16:17.a result, Britain is leaving the EU and can be no turning back. I will

:16:18. > :16:20.take one more. Doesn't it take some drastic to call a general election

:16:21. > :16:28.when you are facing allegations of buying the last one? I have to say,

:16:29. > :16:33.that intervention was not worthy of the honourable gentleman. Can the

:16:34. > :16:40.Prime Minister just clarify for us, does he support fixed term

:16:41. > :16:44.Parliament? We have a fixed term Parliament act that enables us to

:16:45. > :16:48.have such. I believe that, at this point in time, it is right for us to

:16:49. > :16:53.have this debate, have this late in this house and I believe it is right

:16:54. > :16:56.for members of this house to vote and I will explain why, for us to

:16:57. > :17:01.have a general election at this stage. I will not take any further

:17:02. > :17:07.interventions for a while, this is a limited time debate and honourable

:17:08. > :17:11.members wished to make contributions. Today, we face a new

:17:12. > :17:16.question, how do we face, get the stability we need in your long-term

:17:17. > :17:19.to get the right deal for Britain in Brexit negotiations and making those

:17:20. > :17:23.the opportunities I have? I have come to the conclusion that the

:17:24. > :17:26.answer to that question is to hold a general election now in this window

:17:27. > :17:32.of opportunity for the negotiations begin. I believe it is in Britain's

:17:33. > :17:39.national interest to holding election now, a general election is

:17:40. > :17:42.the best way to look at the negotiations ahead because securing

:17:43. > :17:46.the right deal for Britain is my priority and I'm confident we have

:17:47. > :17:52.the plan to do it. We have set out our ambition come a deep and special

:17:53. > :17:55.partnership between a strong and successful European Union and a

:17:56. > :17:59.United Kingdom that is free to chart its own way in the world. It

:18:00. > :18:02.means... Just a minute. It means he will regain control of our own

:18:03. > :18:08.money, laws and orders and we will be free to strike trade deals with

:18:09. > :18:13.old friends and new partners all around the world. I give way. I'm

:18:14. > :18:16.very grateful to the Prime Minister forgiving way and I can understand

:18:17. > :18:20.she was to give the house the opportunity to determine whether

:18:21. > :18:24.there should be an election. If they determine now is the time, why does

:18:25. > :18:28.she stand in the face of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish

:18:29. > :18:32.Government that have doubted for a referendum in Scotland's future? If

:18:33. > :18:35.it the people here have a voice and a bit on the future of this country,

:18:36. > :18:41.why should these godless people not be given neither as well? Now is the

:18:42. > :18:48.tie-break general election because it will our hand in the negotiations

:18:49. > :18:52.of Brexit. -- time for a full stop it is not the time for a Scottish

:18:53. > :18:58.independence referendum because it will weaken, and with the Brexit

:18:59. > :19:03.negotiations. Division and weakness with Scottish National 's. This

:19:04. > :19:08.means that we will... I will just make a little more progress. I

:19:09. > :19:11.believe they will of the British people, our plan from Brexit is the

:19:12. > :19:14.right approach for Britain and it'll deliver a more secure future for our

:19:15. > :19:20.country and a better deal for all our people. It is clear, Mr Speaker,

:19:21. > :19:23.that other parties in this house have a different view about the

:19:24. > :19:26.right future for our country while members of the other place have

:19:27. > :19:35.vowed to fight the Government every step of the way. I give way.

:19:36. > :19:40.You and in June and Horo and government a mandate to exercise

:19:41. > :19:43.Article 50, she has done that and we are grateful for the opportunity to

:19:44. > :19:46.strengthen the hand of the Prime Minister so she can go out there and

:19:47. > :19:54.get the best possible deal for people who live in my constituency,

:19:55. > :19:56.our manufacturers there and every family in Rossendale and Darwin.

:19:57. > :19:59.You are absolutely right and we should be united in this Parliament

:20:00. > :20:03.in wanting to get that best possible deal, not just for the country as a

:20:04. > :20:07.whole but everybody across the whole of this country and I commend my

:20:08. > :20:10.honourable friend for the work that he has done in Rossendale and Darwin

:20:11. > :20:16.in supporting his constituents on this. I will give way to the Right

:20:17. > :20:20.honourable gentleman and then make progress. I can see how it suits the

:20:21. > :20:23.purposes of the Prime Minister to make this election all about Brexit,

:20:24. > :20:27.but can she accept the possibility that it may just become a referendum

:20:28. > :20:29.on her brutal cuts which have left older people without care, schools

:20:30. > :20:37.sending begging letters to parents and a record number of homeless

:20:38. > :20:39.people on the streets of Greater Manchester?

:20:40. > :20:43.I have to say to the right honourable gentleman, of course, the

:20:44. > :20:48.general election when they come into the campaign people will look at a

:20:49. > :20:51.wide range of issues, they both looked at the fact that pensioners

:20:52. > :20:54.are ?1250 a year better off because of the actions of the Conservative

:20:55. > :20:59.government and look at the fact that we have 1.8 million more children in

:21:00. > :21:02.good or outstanding schools, but the Right Honourable gentleman wants to

:21:03. > :21:09.talk about the impact on the economy, I suggest he searches in

:21:10. > :21:12.his memory for the time he spent as Jesus -- Chief Secretary to the

:21:13. > :21:15.Treasury when Labour trashing the economy of this country. Mr

:21:16. > :21:21.Speaker... I will make progress, sorry. I have set up the divisions

:21:22. > :21:25.that has become clear on this issue, they can and will be used against

:21:26. > :21:29.us, weakening our hand in the negotiations to come and we must not

:21:30. > :21:34.let that happen. I believe that at this moment of enormous national

:21:35. > :21:37.significance, there should be unity here in Westminster, not division.

:21:38. > :21:44.That is why it is the right and responsible thing for all of us here

:21:45. > :21:47.today to vote for a general election to meet our respective cases to the

:21:48. > :21:50.country and then to respect the result and the mandate it provides

:21:51. > :21:56.to give Britain the strongest possible hand in the negotiations to

:21:57. > :22:00.come. I give way to the honourable gentleman. Thank you. In the last

:22:01. > :22:04.election, the Conservatives did a manifesto commitment to stay in the

:22:05. > :22:08.single market, will she be withdrawn that commitment in the new manifesto

:22:09. > :22:14.and if she does, but that's not weaken her negotiating position as

:22:15. > :22:18.well as removing two months from the negotiating window? We give a

:22:19. > :22:21.commitment in the last manifesto to provide people of the United Kingdom

:22:22. > :22:25.with a vote on whether or not to believe the European Union, we get

:22:26. > :22:28.them that Ford, that was supported by Parliament, we give them that

:22:29. > :22:32.thought and studio gave a clear message that they want the UK to

:22:33. > :22:48.leave the EU, that is exactly what we are going to do. -- gave them

:22:49. > :22:51.that port. I am grateful to the Prime Minister and I fully support

:22:52. > :22:54.the fact that she needs a stronger hand going into the negotiations as

:22:55. > :22:56.we leave the EU. But she not they it perverse that some people who did

:22:57. > :22:59.not want a referendum in the first is now want a second referendum at

:23:00. > :23:02.the very end of the procedure, just in case the British government does

:23:03. > :23:04.not get a good deal from Brussels? Does she not believe that if we were

:23:05. > :23:07.to have that second referendum, it would decline weaken the position of

:23:08. > :23:09.the Prime Minister in the negotiations she has with the

:23:10. > :23:11.European Union? My right honourable friend is absolutely right in his

:23:12. > :23:17.description of what would happen and I think... For those who have said

:23:18. > :23:20.they want a second referendum, that is actually denying the will of the

:23:21. > :23:24.people because people voted for us to leave the European Union and we

:23:25. > :23:29.will go out there and get the best possible deal. Waiting to hold the

:23:30. > :23:33.next election in 2020 as scheduled would mean that the negotiations

:23:34. > :23:36.would reach the most difficult and sensitive stage just as the election

:23:37. > :23:39.was looming on the horizon. A general election will provide the

:23:40. > :23:47.country with five years of strong and stable leadership to see us

:23:48. > :23:50.through the negotiations and ensure we are able to go on to make a

:23:51. > :23:53.success as a result and that is crucial, that is the test, it is not

:23:54. > :23:55.solely about how we leave the European Union, but what we do with

:23:56. > :24:02.the opportunity that Brexit provides that counts. Leaving the EU offers

:24:03. > :24:05.us a unique once in a generation opportunity to shape a brighter

:24:06. > :24:09.future for Britain. We need the leadership provided by a strong and

:24:10. > :24:12.stable government to seize it, a government that has a plan for a

:24:13. > :24:16.stronger Briton, a government with the determination to see it through

:24:17. > :24:28.and the government that will take the right long-term decisions that

:24:29. > :24:31.will deliver a more secure future for Britain. The Conservative Party

:24:32. > :24:34.I read is determined to be that government. I will give way. If the

:24:35. > :24:36.Prime Minister at all concerned that having type best to build up a

:24:37. > :24:39.reputation for political integrity, both as Home Secretary and Prime

:24:40. > :24:45.Minister, she is now seen after all the denials there will be at a snap

:24:46. > :24:52.election, simply as a political opportunist? I have not denied the

:24:53. > :24:54.fact that when I came in to this rule as Prime Minister, I was clear

:24:55. > :24:57.that what the country needed was stability and they also needed a

:24:58. > :25:01.government that was going to show that it would deliver on the vote

:25:02. > :25:06.people had taken any referendum on leaving the EU. We have provided

:25:07. > :25:10.that over the last nine months, now it is clear to me that if we are

:25:11. > :25:14.going to have the strongest possible hand in negotiation, we should have

:25:15. > :25:17.an election now. As I have just said, leaving the election to 2020

:25:18. > :25:21.would mean that we would be coming to the most sensitive and critical

:25:22. > :25:48.part of the negotiations in the run-up

:25:49. > :25:52.to a general election, and that would be in the interest of not one.

:25:53. > :25:54.Mr Speaker, I said that the Conservative Party that I beat the

:25:55. > :25:57.terms to be that government that has the determination to see through its

:25:58. > :25:58.plan for a stronger Briton, we are determined to provide that

:25:59. > :26:01.leadership, determined to bring stability to the UK for the

:26:02. > :26:03.long-term and that is what this election will be about. Leadership

:26:04. > :26:05.and stability. I will give way. Does the Prime Minister appreciates

:26:06. > :26:07.decisiveness and does she agree that voting yes in this motion signifies

:26:08. > :26:09.strength, whereas abstaining is a symbol of weakness?

:26:10. > :26:12.I have to say to my honourable friend that I think absolutely

:26:13. > :26:14.voting yes it a sign of strength. I would say a little more about

:26:15. > :26:19.abstaining, anyone who abstained and things we should not have a general

:26:20. > :26:23.election presumably as endorsing the record of the Tory government. I am

:26:24. > :26:27.grateful. Would she agreed with Lord Hill who was commissioner in Europe

:26:28. > :26:31.when asked in front of the foreign affairs committee what the best

:26:32. > :26:36.strategy for negotiation is, his response is that we must come

:26:37. > :26:41.together because our into lockers will be watching this place and

:26:42. > :26:46.exploit any weakness in our political system? My honourable

:26:47. > :26:50.friend is absolutely right and I am grateful to him for reminding us

:26:51. > :26:54.what with his experience Lord Hill said in relation to this issue. It

:26:55. > :26:58.is important that we come together and do not show the divisions that

:26:59. > :27:01.have been suggested in the past and we are able to show a strong mandate

:27:02. > :27:19.for a plan for Brexit and for making a success of that. We are determined

:27:20. > :27:21.to bring stability to the UK in the long-term and that is what this

:27:22. > :27:24.election will be about, leadership and stability. And the decision

:27:25. > :27:26.facing the country will be clear. I will be campaigning for strong and

:27:27. > :27:29.reliable leadership and I will ask for the support of the public to

:27:30. > :27:32.continue to deliver my plan for a stronger Briton to be the country to

:27:33. > :27:35.the next five years and to give the country the certainty and stability

:27:36. > :27:40.that we need. I will give way to the honourable lady. Thank you, Mr

:27:41. > :27:44.Speaker. Thank you for giving way. On the timetable before yesterday,

:27:45. > :27:49.the Prime Minister would have concluded her negotiation by 2019,

:27:50. > :27:52.we would have gone into the election in 2020 one you later, talking about

:27:53. > :27:56.the Prime Minister's deal. That would have given the country and

:27:57. > :28:00.hardwood as to what they would have been voting for. The Prime Minister

:28:01. > :28:07.is asking the country to strengthen her hand, what she is actually

:28:08. > :28:12.doing, but she not agree, is asking the country to vote for a blank

:28:13. > :28:16.cheque? I am not asking the country to write a blank cheque, we have

:28:17. > :28:19.been very clear in terms of what they intend for the outcome of the

:28:20. > :28:23.negotiations and I set that out in my speech in January at Lancaster

:28:24. > :28:27.House, it has been set out in the article says the letter when it

:28:28. > :28:30.giggled Article 50 and submitted that to the president of the

:28:31. > :28:33.European Council as well as White Paper. Mr Speaker, I tell the House,

:28:34. > :28:39.the House, the choice before us today is clear, I have made my

:28:40. > :28:42.choice, it is to do something that runs through the brains of my party

:28:43. > :28:47.more than any other, to trust the people, so let us what to do that

:28:48. > :28:51.today, let us lay out our plans for Brexit, let us put forward the plans

:28:52. > :28:55.for the future of this great country and put our faith in the hands of

:28:56. > :29:03.the people and then let the people decide. The question is that there

:29:04. > :29:12.shall be an early parliamentary general election. Mr Jeremy Corbyn.

:29:13. > :29:18.Thank you, Mr Speaker. We welcome the opportunity of a general

:29:19. > :29:22.election because it gives the British people the chance to vote

:29:23. > :29:27.for a Labour government that will put the interests of the majority

:29:28. > :29:31.first. The Prime Minister has said that she only recently and

:29:32. > :29:37.reluctantly decided to go for a snap election. Just four weeks ago the

:29:38. > :29:42.Prime minister's spokesperson said, "There is not going to be able early

:29:43. > :29:47.general election. Was good how can any voter trust what the Prime

:29:48. > :29:50.Minister says? Britain is being held back, held back by our government,

:29:51. > :29:55.the Prime Minister approximately strong economy, but the truth is

:29:56. > :29:59.that most people are worse off than they were when the Conservatives

:30:00. > :30:03.came to power is seven years ago. The election gives the British

:30:04. > :30:07.people the chance to change direction. This election is about

:30:08. > :30:15.her government's fielder to rebuild the economy and living standards for

:30:16. > :30:21.the majority. It is about the crisis are government has plunged her

:30:22. > :30:24.national health service into, the cuts to our children's schools which

:30:25. > :30:33.will limit the chances of every child in Britain. 4 million of whom

:30:34. > :30:36.now live in poverty. A chant of an alternative to raise living

:30:37. > :30:43.standards as more and more people do not have security in their work or

:30:44. > :30:52.in their housing. Pars-mac a chance of an alternative.

:30:53. > :31:05.I will give way to my friend, the member for Stoke-on-Trent. Mr Gareth

:31:06. > :31:11.Snell. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker and

:31:12. > :31:14.I will try not to take it personally that having arrived so early the

:31:15. > :31:18.Prime Minister felt desperate to get rid of me that she is calling an

:31:19. > :31:24.election. What I would say to my honourable friend, with my

:31:25. > :31:26.honourable friend agreed that the Prime Minister, in calling this

:31:27. > :31:32.election, essentially is saying that she does not have confidence and our

:31:33. > :31:35.own government to deliver a Brexit deal for Britain? Only she could

:31:36. > :31:39.secure the votes of myself and my only friend is to table a motion of

:31:40. > :31:44.no-confidence in her own government which I would vote for. I thank my

:31:45. > :31:49.friend for that intervention, I congratulate him on his election to

:31:50. > :31:52.this House and I congratulate him on his work and I agree with him, I

:31:53. > :31:59.have no confidence in this government either.

:32:00. > :32:07.In the interests of unity in Stoke-on-Trent, what else can I do?

:32:08. > :32:15.There are five towns, don't forget. Six. I'm grateful to my friend, he

:32:16. > :32:18.highlighted the Prime Minister dithered over whether she wanted an

:32:19. > :32:22.election and always said she didn't want one, but the reality is that

:32:23. > :32:26.what has focused on mine is the fact she might lose some of her

:32:27. > :32:34.backbenchers if the CPS have their way. -- focused her mind. The timing

:32:35. > :32:37.of the election and the role of the CPS is extremely interesting in this

:32:38. > :32:41.and it is interesting the Prime Minister did not mention it in her

:32:42. > :32:49.contribution. I gave way to the gentleman here. I most grateful. He

:32:50. > :32:53.talks about trust in leaders, what trust can the public but in a leader

:32:54. > :32:57.who has no confidence from his parliamentary colleagues and is in

:32:58. > :33:04.place by people who are not in parliament but from people who are

:33:05. > :33:10.outside? I was elected leader of my party by 300,000 votes and I don't

:33:11. > :33:16.know how many people voted for the Prime Minister to be leader of her

:33:17. > :33:24.party. I suspect it was actually none whatsoever. To the 6 million

:33:25. > :33:27.people working in jobs that pay less than the living wage I simply say

:33:28. > :33:34.this, it doesn't have to be like this. Because Labour believes that

:33:35. > :33:38.every job should pay a wage you can live on and every worker should have

:33:39. > :33:44.decent rights at work. To the millions of people who can't afford

:33:45. > :33:48.a home of their own, or have spent years waiting for a council home,

:33:49. > :33:57.this is your chance to vote for the home your family deserves. Because

:33:58. > :34:02.we believe a housing policy should provide homes for everyone and not

:34:03. > :34:09.investment opportunities for a few. To the millions of small businesses,

:34:10. > :34:12.fed up with red tape of quarterly reporting and hikes in business

:34:13. > :34:16.rates and broken promises on national insurance contributions,

:34:17. > :34:21.this is your chance to vote for a government that invests and that

:34:22. > :34:29.supports wealth creators, not just the wealth extractors. The Prime

:34:30. > :34:34.Minister says she has called the election so the government can

:34:35. > :34:38.negotiate Brexit, we had a referendum that established that

:34:39. > :34:47.mandate. Parliament has voted to accept that result. There is no

:34:48. > :34:52.negotiating, but instead of getting negotiating, but instead of getting

:34:53. > :34:56.on with the job, she has pegged herself as the prisoner of the Lib

:34:57. > :35:02.Dems, who have threatened to grind government to a standstill. There

:35:03. > :35:07.are nine of them and they have managed to vote three different ways

:35:08. > :35:15.on Article 50. So it is obviously a very serious threat indeed. The

:35:16. > :35:23.Tories want to use Brexit to turn us into a low-wage tax haven. Labour

:35:24. > :35:30.will use Brexit to invest in every part of this country and to create a

:35:31. > :35:40.high wage, high skill economy, in which everyone shares the rewards.

:35:41. > :35:46.The Prime Minister also says this campaign will be about leadership.

:35:47. > :35:50.So let's have a head-to-head TV debate about the future of our

:35:51. > :36:02.country, why has she rejected that request? Labour... Mr Speaker,

:36:03. > :36:13.Labour offers a better future, we want richer lives for everyone, not

:36:14. > :36:23.the country run for the rich. Order, order. Giving way to the right

:36:24. > :36:37.honourable gentleman. Order! Order. Order! I've known the right

:36:38. > :36:43.honourable gentleman for more than 30 years, you will not take it

:36:44. > :36:49.personally. He has completed his speech and now he would like to

:36:50. > :37:04.raise his point. On a point of order, is that it? LAUGHTER

:37:05. > :37:10.It's very generous of the right honourable gentleman to see to

:37:11. > :37:16.invest me with additional powers but the question of whether it is it as

:37:17. > :37:20.he put it is not a matter for me. And the right honourable gentleman

:37:21. > :37:25.has completed his contribution. Sir Desmond Swiryn.

:37:26. > :37:34.I accept entirely the logic that was laid out by my right honourable

:37:35. > :37:36.friend at her post-statement yesterday in Downing Street, and

:37:37. > :37:41.what I can say is that I reached that conclusion somewhat earlier.

:37:42. > :37:48.However I just did not believe it was possible to deliver. Indeed I

:37:49. > :37:53.found myself discombobulated by a reversal in government policy for

:37:54. > :37:58.the second time in a few weeks. Having told the readers of the

:37:59. > :38:04.Forest Journal in terms that there was no question of there being an

:38:05. > :38:09.early general election, because it was not in the Prime Minister's gift

:38:10. > :38:16.to deliver it, because of the fixed term act. That decision lies with a

:38:17. > :38:20.majority of two thirds of the members of the House of Commons, and

:38:21. > :38:28.as I told them with absolute confidence, turkeys will not vote

:38:29. > :38:32.for Christmas. I congratulate my right honourable friend for having

:38:33. > :38:38.achieved the impossible and secured the fact that today those turkeys

:38:39. > :38:44.will indeed vote for that. The reason why I reached the opinion

:38:45. > :38:47.that I did, that an election was necessary was firstly that, during

:38:48. > :38:55.the passage and the debate on the Article 50 Bill, member after member

:38:56. > :38:59.opposite got up and announced their recantation, that notwithstanding

:39:00. > :39:05.having voted to remain, they were now going to abide by the will of

:39:06. > :39:10.their constituents. Yet at every opportunity they cheered to the

:39:11. > :39:16.rafters those few who spoke out and said they remained with the 48% and

:39:17. > :39:22.believed that so proceeding as events unfolded that 48% would

:39:23. > :39:30.become a majority. They pursued a strategy of desperation. A strategy

:39:31. > :39:35.of how an arm, something might turn up, well, that something was the

:39:36. > :39:42.long promised economic shock or whatever -- of Hang on. That

:39:43. > :39:50.strategy of Hang on requires an essential ingredient, delay, and

:39:51. > :39:54.that was the tactic they clearly pursued and they promised that they

:39:55. > :40:00.would be more. Now, with respect to the other place, the other place is

:40:01. > :40:06.not bound currently in respect of the government's policy by these

:40:07. > :40:11.Salisbury Convention, and my friend for North Norfolk and I were invited

:40:12. > :40:17.to debate in front of a city audience recently the motion that

:40:18. > :40:27.the United Kingdom is leaving the EU. Two peers, highly respected

:40:28. > :40:31.peers, Lord Butler, former Cabinet sector, Lord Leicester, one of our

:40:32. > :40:36.human rights lawyers, they argued the case that we would not leave the

:40:37. > :40:44.European Union because they were in a position to prevent it and would

:40:45. > :40:47.do so. It is essential therefore, I believe, that the policy that the

:40:48. > :40:52.Prime Minister has announced of pursuing a general election and

:40:53. > :40:57.securing a mandate in this House and a mandate to bind the other house in

:40:58. > :41:02.respect of the Salisbury convention is absolutely necessary. I'm

:41:03. > :41:06.confident that she will achieve that majority because I'm confident that

:41:07. > :41:14.she will be backed by the overwhelming majority of this nation

:41:15. > :41:19.who, as she will know, I voted for every other possible candidate for

:41:20. > :41:24.the leadership of the Tory party last year in order to avoid her

:41:25. > :41:31.becoming the leader. I have to tell her that I have become her greatest

:41:32. > :41:39.fan. CHEERING And as my constituents recognise and

:41:40. > :41:45.tell me continually, she is doing magnificently and long may she

:41:46. > :41:53.continue to do so. Mr Angus Robertson. The Prime Minister has

:41:54. > :41:58.said she wants unity and she has said that she wants an end to

:41:59. > :42:04.division and she intends to do that by crushing opposition. With

:42:05. > :42:08.political opponents described as saboteurs, something I invited her

:42:09. > :42:15.earlier to take a distance from but she was not prepared. This is not a

:42:16. > :42:19.vision of or an understanding of mainstream democracy that I share

:42:20. > :42:22.with the Prime Minister. And for months we have heard from her that

:42:23. > :42:27.now is not the time before the public to vote, that no one wants it

:42:28. > :42:32.that it is important to get on with the day job. We have been told that

:42:33. > :42:36.the Prime Minister needs to concentrate all of her time on

:42:37. > :42:44.Brexit and that nothing, nothing, should get in the way, but now, as

:42:45. > :42:49.we have learned in the last 24 hours, all of that was in direct

:42:50. > :42:55.trick. And there are two key reasons why there is going to be a general

:42:56. > :42:59.election -- empty rhetoric. The first is politically expedient, is

:43:00. > :43:05.about the unelectable state of the Labour Party, and that is a reason

:43:06. > :43:10.of political expediency to hold an election. It is about not wanting to

:43:11. > :43:15.repeat the political error that Gordon Brown made, the Prime

:43:16. > :43:19.Minister wants to receive her own electoral mandate and crush

:43:20. > :43:22.political opposition in England. The second reason for holding an early

:43:23. > :43:26.general election is that it has finally dawned on the UK Government

:43:27. > :43:32.that the Brexit negotiations are going to be very difficult and the

:43:33. > :43:36.reality of the hard Brexit that the Prime Minister is pursuing have not

:43:37. > :43:43.fully dawned on the public. As one commentator wrote... If I can have a

:43:44. > :43:47.moment, as one commentator wrote today, the EU is not going to roll

:43:48. > :43:55.over and give the UK free and frictionless access to the single

:43:56. > :44:00.market, and the Prime Minister is getting the vote in before the

:44:01. > :44:05.reality of Brexit hits home. While she thinks she can get away with all

:44:06. > :44:07.of this against the Labour Party in England but she will not come she

:44:08. > :44:15.will not get away with this in Scotland. On the subject of hard

:44:16. > :44:21.Brexit, does he agree that his incumbent on those who are

:44:22. > :44:25.advocating it to set out very clearly what the impact on jobs is

:44:26. > :44:29.going to be for us coming out of the single market and the customs union?

:44:30. > :44:33.That would be an opportunity in a That would be an opportunity in a

:44:34. > :44:37.normal general election campaign where party leaders debate the

:44:38. > :44:41.issues on their record but there has been an interesting development

:44:42. > :44:44.since the debate. I'd notice colleagues looking at their mobile

:44:45. > :44:50.phones, because ITV has confirmed there will be a leaders debate.

:44:51. > :44:54.There are a number of other party leaders in the chamber. I'm looking

:44:55. > :44:59.at the Leader of the Opposition. Izzy intending to take part in the

:45:00. > :45:03.debate? I suspect he probably will -- is he intending for them the

:45:04. > :45:09.leader of the Liberal Democrats and the leader of the Green party. It is

:45:10. > :45:16.unsustainable in the 21st century in the multimedia age to go to the

:45:17. > :45:22.country and not to debate the leaders of the main political

:45:23. > :45:26.parties. The notion that the UK Prime Minister might be empty

:45:27. > :45:30.chaired because she is not prepared to stand up for heart arguments is

:45:31. > :45:36.just not sustainable. Maybe she would wish that the honourable

:45:37. > :45:41.gentleman who is seeking to intervene might take her place

:45:42. > :45:44.instead. As I said yesterday, I hope that the Prime Minister does go

:45:45. > :45:55.head-to-head with the leaders of other parties. It is quite simple,

:45:56. > :46:01.she would floor them all. No, she wouldn't. She would not managed that

:46:02. > :46:05.with Nicola Sturgeon. But I am surprised and I welcome what the

:46:06. > :46:13.honourable gentleman had to say any encouragement. Because I think the

:46:14. > :46:16.public deserves a debate during the election campaign and I think the

:46:17. > :46:20.Prime Minister should have some more confidence in herself. I think she

:46:21. > :46:23.should be prepared to address the country and to debate the idea is

:46:24. > :46:29.that all the political parties across the UK have. But we have

:46:30. > :46:33.already learned of course in Scotland that the Prime Minister is

:46:34. > :46:37.prepared to ignore the mandate and wishes of the Scottish electorate.

:46:38. > :46:43.Of the Scottish Parliament. And the Scottish Government. So why would

:46:44. > :46:53.anyone in Scotland... I need to make some progress, so why would anyone

:46:54. > :46:57.in Scotland vote for such a distant respectful -- disrespectful party

:46:58. > :47:00.and Prime Minister? The Prime Minister promised that she would

:47:01. > :47:06.have a unified approach with all the devolved governments, an agreement,

:47:07. > :47:11.before triggering Brexit, but she didn't. She broke her word. And as

:47:12. > :47:16.we have learned in recent weeks, in connection with the appalling

:47:17. > :47:22.clause, the one thing that the Scottish Tories don't like talking

:47:23. > :47:25.about is Tory policy. But this election will highlight the dangers

:47:26. > :47:30.to Scotland of unfettered Tory Westminster government. We live in

:47:31. > :47:35.one of the most unequal countries in the developed world, but the Tories

:47:36. > :47:42.want to make it even more unfair. Experts say that their policies will

:47:43. > :47:49.cause the largest increase in inequality since Margaret Thatcher.

:47:50. > :47:55.Does he agree with me that if this election is as the Prime Minister

:47:56. > :47:59.says is about a more secure future for this country, if it is an

:48:00. > :48:04.election or such national significance, we should have an

:48:05. > :48:09.urgent change in the law to give Britain's 1.5 million 16-year-old

:48:10. > :48:13.and 17-year-olds a say in deciding their own future on the 8th of June.

:48:14. > :48:18.As someone who gave his maiden speech on in franchising

:48:19. > :48:25.16-year-olds and 17-year-olds, I totally agree. Some young people

:48:26. > :48:30.have been given the vote in some referenda but yet denied it in

:48:31. > :48:35.others, that is wrong. He will be aware that the Supreme Court made it

:48:36. > :48:40.abundantly clear and all the judges decided on a unanimous basis that

:48:41. > :48:42.issues concerning Brexit negotiations should be determined by

:48:43. > :48:49.this House which represent the whole of the UK and that this was not an

:48:50. > :48:52.issue to be decided by any of the devolved institutions. Which bit of

:48:53. > :48:56.that is the right honourable gentleman have a problem with

:48:57. > :48:59.understanding? The thing I have a difficulty understanding is the

:49:00. > :49:03.commitment that the Prime Minister gave, she gave it when she came to

:49:04. > :49:08.Edinburgh, it was on the front page of the House journal of the House

:49:09. > :49:12.Daily Telegraph and she said she wanted a seat UK-wide abroad and

:49:13. > :49:16.agreement. The honourable gentleman might want to rewrite history but

:49:17. > :49:21.the Prime Minister gave an agreement to reach an agreement and she did

:49:22. > :49:24.not do that. Mr Speaker, the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act was

:49:25. > :49:28.supposed to stop political parties abusing their position and putting

:49:29. > :49:34.party before country. Today, the Tories are going to do just that and

:49:35. > :49:38.sadly, the Labour Party is going to vote with the Tories and make life

:49:39. > :49:43.easy for them. We of these benches will not vote with the Tories, but

:49:44. > :49:48.given the arrow keys that the party is going to be voting with the

:49:49. > :49:52.Tories, there will be a general election and boy, we look forward to

:49:53. > :50:03.that. -- given their realities. Because, in Scotland, we... Mr

:50:04. > :50:08.Morris, normally you have a very mild manner, you are a very

:50:09. > :50:15.restrained individual. But you have become overexcited. Calm yourself,

:50:16. > :50:19.take some sort of soothing medicine, it will have a good impact! In

:50:20. > :50:26.Scotland, the general election will be a two horse race, a straight

:50:27. > :50:29.fight between the SNP and the Tories, do I think that mainstream

:50:30. > :50:35.regardless of whether they voted to Leave or Remain will vote for a hard

:50:36. > :50:39.Tory Brexit? I do not believe that will be the case. While the board

:50:40. > :50:45.for more cuts to public services? I do not think so. While they vote for

:50:46. > :50:47.a party that is undermining the mandate given by the voters any

:50:48. > :50:52.Scottish general election? For people in Scotland to determine

:50:53. > :50:57.their own future? No, I do not. We of these benches, will work hard for

:50:58. > :51:01.every vote in every seat in Scotland and Mr Speaker, we look forward to

:51:02. > :51:10.defeating the Tories in this general election. Order, there are at least

:51:11. > :51:15.ten people wanting to speak, we have less than one hour, members can do

:51:16. > :51:18.the arithmetic for themselves and it would be appreciated if each member

:51:19. > :51:23.helps other members with their contributions accordingly. Thank

:51:24. > :51:26.you, Mr Speaker. I welcome the courage that the Prime Minister has

:51:27. > :51:31.shown in taking this question to the public. Who is that they are

:51:32. > :51:36.expecting to lead the country for the next five years? I have to tell

:51:37. > :51:39.you, having followed the last week I can assure the public it will not be

:51:40. > :51:43.the right honourable gentleman for Moray. I think the public will have

:51:44. > :51:50.to think long and hard because Brexit is happening, this is not

:51:51. > :51:56.about... This is very time-limited, everyone has to have the time to

:51:57. > :51:58.speak. This is not about us in here, this is about delivering the future

:51:59. > :52:03.for the British public, future that they deserve, delivering the best

:52:04. > :52:08.possible outcome for this country as we leave the European Union. And I

:52:09. > :52:12.know that when we have that election on the 8th of June, there will be

:52:13. > :52:16.individual members here who may well find themselves in difficulties with

:52:17. > :52:21.their constituency, for whatever reasons they have expressed about

:52:22. > :52:26.the dealership. I am proud to be standing behind a Prime Minister who

:52:27. > :52:31.has made it brutally clear that this is not about making gains in this

:52:32. > :52:36.place, this is about delivering a Brexit that is the good of the

:52:37. > :52:41.European... Well, it is for the good of the European Union as well, I

:52:42. > :52:45.have to say, getting our relationship with the European Union

:52:46. > :52:50.in the future will be hugely important, but this is going to be a

:52:51. > :52:53.question that will be posed in constituencies of the leaders that

:52:54. > :52:58.could be the Prime Minister, that is what they are going to ask the

:52:59. > :53:03.country. Does this country believe that the leader for Islington North

:53:04. > :53:07.could lead this country? I suspect a large number of his colleagues on

:53:08. > :53:10.his own backbenchers would say no, and I would suggest that the

:53:11. > :53:20.businesses in my constituency would equally say no. Does the leader...

:53:21. > :53:25.Sorry, Westmorland and Lonsdale, whose voting record and attendance

:53:26. > :53:28.in this House, along with his colleagues, is generally pretty low,

:53:29. > :53:32.there were too much here today, none to vote on the Budget yesterday,

:53:33. > :53:37.does he really believe that he can lead this country, I suggest no. I

:53:38. > :53:41.would suggest that the British public, when they are looking who to

:53:42. > :53:45.vote for on the 8th of June will look forward with confidence to a

:53:46. > :53:49.Prime Minister with an increased mandate to take us through to the

:53:50. > :53:54.next five years and I am delighted that she is giving this opportunity

:53:55. > :54:02.to the country, to examine our record in Saint old since 2010, 70

:54:03. > :54:10.3% youth unemployment, a drop. An extra... It is interesting for the

:54:11. > :54:14.third placed Lib Dems in my constituency who I must tell you, I

:54:15. > :54:18.hear nothing from in the House defending St Albans, it is

:54:19. > :54:22.surprising, Mr Speaker that they are more interested in campaigning and

:54:23. > :54:27.less interested in running the country. This party, our government,

:54:28. > :54:31.has taken a strong stance and in St Albans, as I have said, there has

:54:32. > :54:35.been a two thirds reduction in youth unemployment since 2010. 76%

:54:36. > :54:41.increase in young people going into apprenticeships. Those of the

:54:42. > :54:45.records we will put to the public. Brexit is happening, we are going to

:54:46. > :54:51.make the best of it and I believe our Prime Minister will not have to

:54:52. > :54:57.suffer 100 and elected Liberal Democrat in the other place and nine

:54:58. > :55:01.in this place are rarely turn up, trying to target the tail of this

:55:02. > :55:08.Prime Minister. We need to make the future secure... I will finish my

:55:09. > :55:12.remarks. We must make the future secure for our young people and our

:55:13. > :55:15.young families and begin playing in this place is a disservice to the

:55:16. > :55:24.British public who are probably fed up having elections anyway, but let

:55:25. > :55:27.us get on and get a mandate for our Prime Minister. Please, to the

:55:28. > :55:29.honourable lady, the public do not respect the fact that people yell

:55:30. > :55:33.from the backbenches. She can speak up for her own leader in... Her own

:55:34. > :55:36.leader and her own manifesto and her own party and what she believes her

:55:37. > :55:42.own leader for Islington North that he will be the man to take the

:55:43. > :55:46.country through and the next five years. I cannot share her confidence

:55:47. > :55:49.but she always the highest belief in his abilities. I know that this

:55:50. > :55:55.government which has delivered so much already and has so much more to

:55:56. > :55:59.deliver has a resonance with the British public when you look at what

:56:00. > :56:03.is on offer from the other parties that are divided, wrangling,

:56:04. > :56:06.scaremongering and in denial of Brexit. This government will give

:56:07. > :56:11.the best deal for all of our businesses and all of our

:56:12. > :56:18.constituencies. Tim Farron. Appropriate time to be

:56:19. > :56:27.called. I notice that the former Prime Minister, David Cameron,

:56:28. > :56:33.earlier welcoming the Prime minister's decision to call an early

:56:34. > :56:36.election. Given that we are in this mess in one sense as a country

:56:37. > :56:41.because he put party before country calling the referendum when he did,

:56:42. > :56:44.it is hardly surprising that the Prime Minister should follow him and

:56:45. > :56:51.indeed choose to put party before country once again. Let us remember

:56:52. > :56:54.from the moment that she took of this that the Prime Minister has

:56:55. > :56:59.ignored the closeness of the referendum vote, has pursued the

:57:00. > :57:05.hardest form of Brexit, driving division instead of cohesion. She

:57:06. > :57:07.has ignored the British people, British businesses, British public

:57:08. > :57:12.sector and the National Health Service, and now, what is now

:57:13. > :57:18.clearly another act of putting 1's party before 1's country, she has

:57:19. > :57:21.chosen an early election, let us not by this nonsense because that you

:57:22. > :57:24.need a mandate to deliver Brexit, the Labour Party has given her a

:57:25. > :57:32.mandate to deliver Brexit, she is acting upon a narrow majority of the

:57:33. > :57:37.referendum in 2016, not for the moment... Let us all be very clear

:57:38. > :57:40.and honest. She has chosen, she has chosen this election because she

:57:41. > :57:45.looked across the dispatch box and could not resist the temptation of

:57:46. > :57:53.doing the political equivalent of taking candy from a baby and facing

:57:54. > :57:57.a Labour Party in a general election. She expects... She expects

:57:58. > :58:00.a coronation and not a contest, and that is why the Liberal Democrats

:58:01. > :58:09.relish the challenge of a general election. I will give way to my

:58:10. > :58:14.neighbour. I am very grateful for him giving way. Just about that

:58:15. > :58:16.coronation, will he rule out a coalition with the Conservatives?

:58:17. > :58:21.The problem we face in this country is that the Prime Minister is

:58:22. > :58:26.running on expectation. We do not need a coalition with anyone. The

:58:27. > :58:31.Prime Minister... In good time. The Prime Minister will call the general

:58:32. > :58:38.election in order to take advantage of what she thinks is a clear

:58:39. > :58:44.opportunity for a majority of 100 or more. I have accepted the

:58:45. > :58:50.gentleman's intervention. What is the answer? It is very clear that

:58:51. > :58:54.we're not talking about balance, the Prime Minister takes the view that

:58:55. > :58:58.in calling this election, it is an opportunity for her to have a 100

:58:59. > :59:06.seat majority, an opportunity to drive through not just a hard

:59:07. > :59:10.Brexit, a deeper agenda to slim down the NHS, to... Order! Rather

:59:11. > :59:16.disorderly atmosphere. The right honourable gentleman is undertaking

:59:17. > :59:20.an apprenticeship to become a statesman but he has several models

:59:21. > :59:29.and some years ago. He must calm himself. Mr Farron. To answer the

:59:30. > :59:34.hackles of my friend of many years, the reality is that we are not

:59:35. > :59:38.looking at a balanced parliament, the Prime Minister... I think I have

:59:39. > :59:43.given you your answer. The Prime Minister has clearly caught the

:59:44. > :59:47.selection on the understanding that she can get lots of numbers and give

:59:48. > :59:53.herself a majority to allow her to... And not for the time being,

:59:54. > :59:56.thank you. To allow herself to deliver the hardest form of Brexit

:59:57. > :00:03.to shrink the NHS, to undermine the support for integration and to take

:00:04. > :00:09.us out of the single market. If you want to avoid a hard Brexit, if you

:00:10. > :00:12.want to take Britain in the single market, if you want a Briton that

:00:13. > :00:18.has a decent opposition, a decent opposition, then only the Lib Dems

:00:19. > :00:26.will give you that. Can I just point out? There is only one route, Mr

:00:27. > :00:33.Speaker, the Prime Minister losing this general election and it is the

:00:34. > :00:40.Lib Dems. I am happy to explain why that might be the case, there is not

:00:41. > :00:45.that much time, let me move on, please. Let me explain that the only

:00:46. > :00:53.route through which Theresa May, the Prime Minister, could lose her

:00:54. > :01:00.majority... Unless my friends on the SNP benches are about to launch a

:01:01. > :01:05.aggressive foreign policy, they can only do so much. Not even the Labour

:01:06. > :01:08.Party believes it will gain seats at this general election. The SNP can

:01:09. > :01:14.only possibly gain one more seat than they already have. So the only

:01:15. > :01:20.way to stop a Tory majority is the growth and revival of the Lib Dems.

:01:21. > :01:25.The government has already stated that it will not outline its

:01:26. > :01:28.negotiating stance any further than the dab rhetoric we have already

:01:29. > :01:34.seen. We have said that that is not good enough. If they will not tell

:01:35. > :01:40.us what they are pursuing, they must instead trust the people with their

:01:41. > :01:49.say on the final deal. The Prime Minister has already confirmed that

:01:50. > :01:54.she will not do any TV debates, referring to bash Machiavellian to

:01:55. > :01:59.hide behind the media that supports than face the public any TV debate.

:02:00. > :02:07.I will give way. I think you might have misheard the straightforward

:02:08. > :02:10.question, it is being afraid, do not be afraid, will you rule out a

:02:11. > :02:15.coalition with the Tories, yes or no? The outcome of this general

:02:16. > :02:19.election is up -- uncertain and in the days and weeks to come we will

:02:20. > :02:31.no doubt talk about what will happen... Honourable gentleman

:02:32. > :02:32.below, you as well, you have to be patient, your patience will be

:02:33. > :02:45.rewarded. I don't think he gave a straight

:02:46. > :02:49.answer to that question, so let's try another question. Many of his

:02:50. > :02:52.viewers will be asked about over the next seven weeks and he was asked

:02:53. > :02:59.one question which he refused to give an answer to. Does he think

:03:00. > :03:09.that being gay is a sin? I do not. I do not. I am very proud to have gone

:03:10. > :03:19.through the lobby behind, with the Liberal Democrats equalled gay

:03:20. > :03:22.marriage and equal marriage, -- brought about gay marriage and equal

:03:23. > :03:28.marriage, but there is more to be done. If we campaign for a open and

:03:29. > :03:35.tolerant society, we need to make sure we are not complacent about

:03:36. > :03:39.LGBT rights, anywhere in the world, including what is going on in

:03:40. > :03:48.Chechnya at the moment. Let me say this. I won't. Let's move on and

:03:49. > :03:55.finish. I'm flattered so many people want to know my views, and I will

:03:56. > :04:02.put myself up for a debate with others, even if the Prime Minister

:04:03. > :04:09.doesn't. The reality is, what we had in the referendum last June was a

:04:10. > :04:12.vote to start the process and giving the Prime Minister a mandate to

:04:13. > :04:15.negotiate Brexit but what was not given was a mandate to give the

:04:16. > :04:22.Prime Minister the right to enact any old deal at the end of the

:04:23. > :04:26.process. What the Prime Minister is asking for now is a blank cheque to

:04:27. > :04:32.allow the British people to put up with whatever stitch up she and the

:04:33. > :04:36.Brussels bureaucrats bring together over the next few years, that is not

:04:37. > :04:41.democracy. An election which takes place on the 8th of June will not

:04:42. > :04:44.decide the outcome, it will be about imposing on the British people a

:04:45. > :04:51.deal that absolutely nobody voted for. Yes, the Liberal Democrats

:04:52. > :04:57.welcome this opportunity to show the British people that there is another

:04:58. > :05:04.way, that the values of tolerance and openness and fairness can help

:05:05. > :05:07.build a vibrant and successful community across the UK and beyond,

:05:08. > :05:12.and the government has made it clear that this is not the Britain that

:05:13. > :05:17.they believe in. They have chosen isolation over calibration, meanness

:05:18. > :05:20.over fairness, and I believe in a better Britain and that is why we

:05:21. > :05:28.will support this motion -- over cooperation. Order. On account of

:05:29. > :05:33.the level of interest and given that there are only 37 minutes to go I

:05:34. > :05:40.will impose a three-minute limit on backbench speeches. I can take up

:05:41. > :05:44.less time. It was a great honour to follow the leader of the Liberal

:05:45. > :05:50.Democrats. I would've hoped he would have rolled coming into us in a

:05:51. > :05:58.coalition. -- ruled out. There is no chance that we would want you, sir,

:05:59. > :06:02.in our coalition. Or any government. Today the party politics is in full

:06:03. > :06:08.swing, but really, this is a good day for Parliament. This is another

:06:09. > :06:14.slight step towards Parliamentary democracy rather than dictate by the

:06:15. > :06:19.executive. The Prime Minister has not called a general election, it is

:06:20. > :06:22.this House that will decide whether there will be a general election,

:06:23. > :06:32.and if I thought for one moment that this election had been called for

:06:33. > :06:37.party political reasons to go early to the country, as happened with

:06:38. > :06:40.previous governments, previous governments chose the moment ago for

:06:41. > :06:46.political advantage and it gave great power to the executive.

:06:47. > :06:51.Strange number of circumstances have come together, we have had a change

:06:52. > :06:54.in the Prime Minister and not only a change in the Prime Minister, but

:06:55. > :06:59.the changing all senior ministers. We have moved from a government that

:07:00. > :07:05.was anti-Brexit to pro Brexit, and that is why I will cast my vote

:07:06. > :07:11.today in support of the government motion. It is up to every member in

:07:12. > :07:16.this House to make that decision. I think that proves that the fixed

:07:17. > :07:23.Parliament act is working and I absolutely, if members disagree,

:07:24. > :07:29.they can vote against... Thanks giving way. He said it is Parliament

:07:30. > :07:32.that will decide but the Prime Minister went on television

:07:33. > :07:36.yesterday declaring across the world that they would be a general

:07:37. > :07:41.election. If Parliament does not give her the two thirds, should the

:07:42. > :07:48.Prime Minister resign after such a public humiliation? That is the

:07:49. > :07:50.advantage of the Parliament act. If the House does not agree to a

:07:51. > :07:56.general election it won't happen, and the government will continue in

:07:57. > :08:02.office. Opposition members that don't want a general election will

:08:03. > :08:05.be very strange creatures indeed. But also opposition members that sit

:08:06. > :08:11.on their hands and don't vote will be regarded as important members of

:08:12. > :08:18.Parliament. I hope the gentlemen will make his mind up and cast his

:08:19. > :08:22.vote one way or the other. Isn't that why the fixed term Parliament

:08:23. > :08:28.act can never work because no opposition can sensibly say that

:08:29. > :08:30.they prefer a government they are opposed to to continue in office

:08:31. > :08:37.rather than have a chance to defeating it? Therefore be fixed

:08:38. > :08:40.term Parliament act should go. Very rarely that I disagree with you, but

:08:41. > :08:45.I think it is proved today that it is working. I believe we will have

:08:46. > :08:52.the required majority, but I understand that if nobody objects

:08:53. > :08:58.and you decide the matter on the voices, it in fact is carried and we

:08:59. > :09:08.don't have two actually have two thirds which I think is a strange

:09:09. > :09:14.anomaly but I hope somebody will set -- will shout no and we will

:09:15. > :09:19.actually get it. I would never dream of doing anything other than that. I

:09:20. > :09:22.just think of despite the party politics, this is a great day for

:09:23. > :09:29.Parliament and is a small step forward in Parliamentary democracy.

:09:30. > :09:32.Mr Nigel Dodds. There are three issues I would like to address in

:09:33. > :09:36.the short time available, the first is that this election is happening

:09:37. > :09:39.in the midst of political discussions in Northern Ireland

:09:40. > :09:45.about the formation of an executive which is unfortunate. As far as our

:09:46. > :09:50.party is concerned we respond positively to the request for

:09:51. > :09:54.discussions to continue in Northern Ireland and we have made it very

:09:55. > :09:59.clear along with the STL P and the Ulster Unionist Party we are ready

:10:00. > :10:10.to form an executive in Northern Ireland -- S DLP. We will be looking

:10:11. > :10:13.at health education funding and public services, we believe they are

:10:14. > :10:24.far more important than some of the issues which are said to divide us.

:10:25. > :10:28.We don't need prolonged negotiation. The second thing, in terms of

:10:29. > :10:32.Brexit, Northern Ireland's position is different from other parts of the

:10:33. > :10:37.UK and that has been made clear in the government's paper that it has

:10:38. > :10:40.set out, it has recognised the special circumstances and we believe

:10:41. > :10:45.it is imperative that Northern Ireland's voice is heard very

:10:46. > :10:49.strongly. That is why it is such a strategy that Sinn Fein has walked

:10:50. > :10:55.away from the executive and collapsed the assembly -- such a

:10:56. > :11:00.tragedy for them boycotts this place and then demands a special stages

:11:01. > :11:05.which has been rejected by the Irish Republic, the European Union and

:11:06. > :11:11.even the European Parliament when it set out its negotiating position.

:11:12. > :11:15.They want, and we agree with special arrangement, which recognises

:11:16. > :11:18.special circle sciences of Northern Ireland, so Mr Speaker, it is

:11:19. > :11:24.essential and the election is going to happen -- special circumstances.

:11:25. > :11:27.There's a clear choice between a party which has walked away and

:11:28. > :11:32.abandoned its responsibilities and a party which will enter in Northern

:11:33. > :11:37.Ireland and contributes and raises its voice and stands up for Northern

:11:38. > :11:41.Ireland. The final thing I want to say, on the big issue about going

:11:42. > :11:45.forward in terms of this country, this election will provide clarity

:11:46. > :11:51.and it will provide clarity on the union, that really matters, the

:11:52. > :11:55.union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and on

:11:56. > :11:58.that issue again the people of Northern Ireland will have a clear

:11:59. > :12:02.choice, they will have a clear choice as to whether or not they

:12:03. > :12:07.will want to rally round and say very firmly that they want Northern

:12:08. > :12:10.Ireland to remain part of the United Kingdom, or whether they want to go

:12:11. > :12:17.down the route presented by Sinn Fein which is a Marxist Leninist

:12:18. > :12:23.concept of a republic which has been rejected even by most people who

:12:24. > :12:25.accept their nationalism, but reject what they stand for in terms of

:12:26. > :12:31.their economic outlook and all the rest of it. The only way to support

:12:32. > :12:40.the union is by rallying behind the Democratic Unionist Party on the 8th

:12:41. > :12:45.of June. The Prime Minister presents herself as the straight sort of

:12:46. > :12:50.person, like Tony Blair. She is a former Home Secretary, and she knows

:12:51. > :12:55.full well the value of evidence as it is proved, so firstly, she was

:12:56. > :13:02.initially in favour of leaving the European Union and on this

:13:03. > :13:06.honourable stance even if I disagree with, and then she was in favour of

:13:07. > :13:09.remaining the European Union, is something of a stinking Violet in

:13:10. > :13:15.her support, and now she is keen on leaving. She was opposed to having

:13:16. > :13:24.an early general election, it would be a distraction, she said. When she

:13:25. > :13:26.had important international negotiations to conclude, but now

:13:27. > :13:33.she is determined that a general election we must have. Against the

:13:34. > :13:36.European Union, for the European Union, and then against again,

:13:37. > :13:42.against holding a general election and now determined to hold a general

:13:43. > :13:52.election. The record is about as straight as the legendary European

:13:53. > :13:56.Union banana. The Prime Minister today repeatedly says she wants the

:13:57. > :13:59.early election to produce a larger Tory majority, dusty member agree

:14:00. > :14:06.that the Prime Minister is treating the electorate of the United Kingdom

:14:07. > :14:12.with contempt because she assumes the electorate will result in a

:14:13. > :14:19.larger Tory majority? -- does remember. I have no crystal ball and

:14:20. > :14:25.I know the disarray in the party to my right, and who knows what the

:14:26. > :14:31.outcome will be, but I am suspicious of the Prime Minister's motives and

:14:32. > :14:35.her reasoning. She says a general election would enhance the status of

:14:36. > :14:41.the 27, for example, and I can't see how that might be the case. To turn

:14:42. > :14:44.briefly to what I do think the Prime Minister's motives are, and I think

:14:45. > :14:50.they are pretty clear, they are in fact pretty straight. It is not only

:14:51. > :14:55.about the destruction of the Labour Party as a credible opposition over

:14:56. > :14:57.the next decade, although I'm afraid they are doing an effective

:14:58. > :15:02.demolition job on themselves without her help, and it is not only about

:15:03. > :15:07.raising a challenge to my friends in Scotland, although I think in this

:15:08. > :15:12.case her case is already lost. No, this election is about seeing off

:15:13. > :15:17.not her opponents on this side of the house, but her enemies behind

:15:18. > :15:25.her. As ever with the Tories, desperate disunity papered over when

:15:26. > :15:28.it suits. My party Plaid Cymru welcomes the opportunity that this

:15:29. > :15:32.election presents to the people of Wales and we welcome the opportunity

:15:33. > :15:37.to change our course in the long-term away from Labour's

:15:38. > :15:42.government in Cardiff and decentralised government in London,

:15:43. > :15:45.cutting our own path towards economic regeneration and

:15:46. > :15:48.prosperity, social justice and the proper confidence plays for Wales in

:15:49. > :16:06.the world. -- confident place. The Prime Minister wants a general

:16:07. > :16:15.election there would be less controversy. At every opportunity,

:16:16. > :16:21.she herself or those who spoke for the Prime Minister denied there was

:16:22. > :16:26.going to be a general election. Where was the general election, they

:16:27. > :16:31.were asked, and the answer was clear, 2020. There is no great

:16:32. > :16:34.public demand for a general election. How many members have

:16:35. > :16:40.received in the last few weeks or days letters or e-mails asking for a

:16:41. > :16:52.general election? Hands up. It is absolutely clear there has been no

:16:53. > :17:00.such demand. The reason given by the Prime Minister for a general

:17:01. > :17:05.election, Brexit, it is feeble, a flimsy excuse, and not taken in by

:17:06. > :17:08.anyone. My honourable friend said the Government shouldn't be

:17:09. > :17:18.complacent about a large majority. Hopefully they will not receive one.

:17:19. > :17:24.When you consider the harm done to those in need when this government

:17:25. > :17:28.has had a small majority, imagine what would happen if there was a

:17:29. > :17:35.large Tory majority. A nightmare, absolute nightmare for those who we

:17:36. > :17:37.represent. Millions of people in this country that need the

:17:38. > :17:44.Government to protect them and not harm them and that is not going to

:17:45. > :17:50.come from a Tory government with a small or large majority. I was here

:17:51. > :17:54.during the Tory government of the 1980s and I saw the harm that was

:17:55. > :18:03.done to my constituents and so many others. This motion before us is

:18:04. > :18:07.murky, completely opportunistic, and it reflects badly on the Prime

:18:08. > :18:12.Minister. I will conclude with these words. Many people are cynical about

:18:13. > :18:24.politics in this country and unfortunately that is a trend which

:18:25. > :18:29.has increased. I do say that this motion and general election which is

:18:30. > :18:34.coming, purely for opportunist reasons, will increase the cynical

:18:35. > :18:43.viewing and that is damaging to the Democratic process. I will be voting

:18:44. > :18:50.against the motion today because I think it is totally unnecessary and

:18:51. > :18:54.I say that as somebody who voted Leave on the 23rd and since then has

:18:55. > :18:59.had a grudging respect for the way the Prime Minister has conducted

:19:00. > :19:03.herself since she took over. However, the justification which she

:19:04. > :19:09.has given for having a general election is quite frankly

:19:10. > :19:15.disingenuous. To suggest she needs a mandate to negotiate Brexit is just

:19:16. > :19:20.ridiculous. She was given that mandate on the 24th of June by a

:19:21. > :19:26.majority of the British people. It is up to her now to carry that out.

:19:27. > :19:31.If she wishes to have another election at the end of the process

:19:32. > :19:37.or to have another referendum then so be it but to justify it now is

:19:38. > :19:43.just, as my honourable colleague said, purely opportunistic.

:19:44. > :19:51.Furthermore, she says she needs a larger majority because her business

:19:52. > :19:55.of the House is likely to be disrupted by opposition parties or

:19:56. > :19:58.by the House of Lords. Well, she ought to look back to what happened

:19:59. > :20:08.when the Wilson government was in power train 64 and 66. He had a

:20:09. > :20:12.majority of three. The Callaghan government in the 70s governed for

:20:13. > :20:18.five years without any majority and if she is fearful of what could

:20:19. > :20:21.happen from the House of Lords she should do exactly what Tories have

:20:22. > :20:26.done in the past and flood the place with her own people to ensure she

:20:27. > :20:31.gets her way. There is no justification for arguing that she

:20:32. > :20:38.needs to have a larger majority in order to get business of the House

:20:39. > :20:45.through. Furthermore, the quite frankly arrogant view that the

:20:46. > :20:51.electorate should concentrate purely and simply on one narrow issue is

:20:52. > :20:57.treating the electorate with contempt. I can only speak for my

:20:58. > :21:02.constituents but when they consider the issues they are going to be

:21:03. > :21:05.asking the questions why is every school in my constituency losing out

:21:06. > :21:11.under the new funding formula? Why is the City Council having to make

:21:12. > :21:16.horrendous cuts because the Government have cut the support

:21:17. > :21:23.grant? Why are waiting times increasing at hospitals? There are

:21:24. > :21:30.just not enough staff. Why are more hard-working families having... ? I

:21:31. > :21:34.will. I thank my honourable friend forgiving way. I wanted to point out

:21:35. > :21:41.that in his questioning about why things were happening in his

:21:42. > :21:48.constituency, I wondered if you might address why my children's

:21:49. > :21:52.school in his constituency they are having 32 children in a class. I

:21:53. > :21:59.don't remember that happening under a Labour government. I thank her and

:22:00. > :22:01.she is right. Under a Labour government we had educational

:22:02. > :22:08.programmes like building schools for the future, we had sure start

:22:09. > :22:13.centres, under this government the programme was stopped and secondly

:22:14. > :22:19.sure start centres are being closed left, right and centre. My

:22:20. > :22:23.constituents will ask the questions. Why are more and more hard-working

:22:24. > :22:28.families being forced into the humiliation of using food banks

:22:29. > :22:32.because they do not have enough money at the end of the week to feed

:22:33. > :22:37.and clothe their families? Why our energy consumers paying

:22:38. > :22:47.ever-increasing prices? While the energy utility firms are ripping

:22:48. > :22:52.them off in the name of competition. Why are young people, married and

:22:53. > :22:54.unmarried, unable to acquire proper housing for themselves and very

:22:55. > :23:01.often have to stay with their in-laws. These views will be echoed

:23:02. > :23:12.throughout the country. There is no justification for this election and

:23:13. > :23:16.I will certainly be opposing it. I will be supporting the motion

:23:17. > :23:19.because I think as one of the members opposite said it seems

:23:20. > :23:23.rather bizarre that the opposition should say we want to keep a Tory

:23:24. > :23:28.government in power. It makes no sense. We have to put our case to

:23:29. > :23:32.the British people and see what happens. We have arrived at a

:23:33. > :23:38.position today which I always thought was inevitable, this was

:23:39. > :23:43.bound to happen. I never believed the stuff about no election. There

:23:44. > :23:50.is a dynamic at work which has resulted in this decision being

:23:51. > :23:53.almost inevitable. Given he is going to support the Government, is he

:23:54. > :23:57.then confident we will not have a Tory government returning

:23:58. > :24:05.post-election with two more years? What does he say is going to happen?

:24:06. > :24:09.To do what ever you can to get rid of a Tory government as sinners you

:24:10. > :24:14.can. It might not work but it is up to the British people in an

:24:15. > :24:22.election. It is their choice. The reason it is inevitable position, I

:24:23. > :24:27.want to pay a minor tribute to Mr David Cameron, late of this parish.

:24:28. > :24:32.When the history of this country in the early part of the 20th century

:24:33. > :24:38.-- 21st-century comes to be written, he will have one of the most

:24:39. > :24:42.prominent roles, not a glorious tribute but decisions that he took

:24:43. > :24:49.well over time damage this country immensely. I remember serving on the

:24:50. > :25:00.original EU Referendum Bill, named after the member from Stockton

:25:01. > :25:04.South. I remember one evening the then Prime Minister David Cameron

:25:05. > :25:12.came into the committee room, a six committee room seven or eight, and

:25:13. > :25:18.sat in the public gallery simply to pay obeisance to the heart

:25:19. > :25:24.right-wingers from the Tory party who were on that bill. I have never

:25:25. > :25:33.seen or heard of a Prime Minister facing such ignominy. Of course, he

:25:34. > :25:38.gave them no guarantee of a referendum in or out. He didn't say

:25:39. > :25:44.he was come to renegotiate terms and then put that to them, he was gone

:25:45. > :25:50.to renegotiate and then have an in/ out referendum. When I say he will

:25:51. > :25:55.go down as one of the most damaging prime ministers, he also put in

:25:56. > :25:59.jeopardy the whole future of the UK, not just as a trading nation, our

:26:00. > :26:10.relationship with the EU, but the future of Scotland as part of the

:26:11. > :26:15.UK, and again it was he who granted the referendum in the first place

:26:16. > :26:18.which set the dynamic in play which destroyed the Labour Party in

:26:19. > :26:24.Scotland and gave the SNP the prominent role that they enjoy

:26:25. > :26:31.today. He has also put in jeopardy our relationship with the Republic

:26:32. > :26:35.of Ireland and also, as the honourable gentleman from the DUP

:26:36. > :26:41.said earlier, put at risk the very stability of Northern Ireland as an

:26:42. > :26:47.entity, as part of the UK. All these things add up and the damage done

:26:48. > :26:51.will be with us for decades and the people who will pay the greatest

:26:52. > :26:57.price will be the young people, the next generation and those who come

:26:58. > :27:02.after. It has permanently damaged this country. I will vote for the

:27:03. > :27:05.general election. I don't think it will change anything. I think the

:27:06. > :27:12.essential landscape will remain much the same after the election as it is

:27:13. > :27:19.now and it will all follow from the calamitous decision of last June to

:27:20. > :27:26.leave the EU. I can understand certain political reasons. There is

:27:27. > :27:29.sanctuary and hypocrisy today. Politics is not science or art or

:27:30. > :27:34.religion. People do things for their own advantage and every Prime

:27:35. > :27:37.Minister has always done that. I didn't intend to speak in this

:27:38. > :27:44.debate but in response to a question posed by the honourable member from

:27:45. > :27:48.Walsall North. I have received e-mails from constituents over the

:27:49. > :27:53.last few weeks asking me to encourage the Prime Minister to call

:27:54. > :27:57.a general election and go to the country once again. He seems to be

:27:58. > :28:01.implying that nobody in the country was asking for this but there were

:28:02. > :28:08.members of my constituency who were asking me to do that. When the Prime

:28:09. > :28:14.Minister made the announcement yesterday, initially I was in shock

:28:15. > :28:17.because, like my right honourable friend, the member for new Forest, I

:28:18. > :28:23.was telling people there was no chance of the general election. I

:28:24. > :28:27.wasn't quite as bold as to put it in the local paper but verbally and in

:28:28. > :28:33.e-mails I was telling people I didn't think it would happen. Having

:28:34. > :28:39.listened to the Prime Minister's reasons, I believe it is the right

:28:40. > :28:45.thing for the country. We obtain a new mandate to go into the

:28:46. > :28:48.negotiations to leave the EU and put the Prime Minister and others who

:28:49. > :28:52.will negotiate in the strongest possible position in those

:28:53. > :28:55.negotiations. I am also happy to stand on this government's record of

:28:56. > :29:00.delivering for this country. It is not just about the Brexit

:29:01. > :29:04.negotiations, it is about this government which has delivered

:29:05. > :29:08.growth, one of the best performing economies in the world, record

:29:09. > :29:16.numbers of jobs, great investment in the NHS, and I am proud to go to the

:29:17. > :29:18.country and let us -- and say let us continue delivering what our country

:29:19. > :29:27.needs and putting us in the strongest position. One final point.

:29:28. > :29:31.If the Conservative Party is returned into government with a

:29:32. > :29:37.substantially reduced majority I say to the leader of the Lib Dems will

:29:38. > :29:39.he accept it is the will of the British people that they have

:29:40. > :29:45.returned to the Conservative Party with a clear mandate to press on and

:29:46. > :29:49.take us out of the EU on the Prime Minister has set out and drop this

:29:50. > :29:58.opposition and gameplaying to thwart the democratic will of the British

:29:59. > :30:01.people? As someone who believes that the Prime Minister has presented the

:30:02. > :30:07.case for this election on an entirely false premise I will also

:30:08. > :30:10.be voting against a motion today. I wasn't asking for an election last

:30:11. > :30:14.week or the week before, I was arguing in the context of the talks

:30:15. > :30:19.in Northern Ireland that any move for an election in future wouldn't

:30:20. > :30:22.help the context of those negotiations. My mind has not

:30:23. > :30:29.changed so why should I pretend it has. I will not be goaded into

:30:30. > :30:33.voting differently because of the Prime Minister's actions and

:30:34. > :30:39.stances. She has accused others of playing games in this Parliament.

:30:40. > :30:46.Essentially our argument is that she has no confidence in parliament so

:30:47. > :30:49.she has a bizarre situation where we had a referendum on taking back

:30:50. > :30:52.sovereignty and the Prime Minister announces she has no confidence in

:30:53. > :31:01.parliament. She doesn't trust opposition parties and confers on

:31:02. > :31:05.them powers to block. If members of the Tory benches are concerned about

:31:06. > :31:13.the House of Lords then move to abolish it or have coherent reform

:31:14. > :31:16.but stop using them as props. The Prime Minister is pretending she

:31:17. > :31:21.needs the election now so she has a strong hand in the short term

:31:22. > :31:26.whereas we really know she is after a free hand in the longer term in

:31:27. > :31:35.terms of the wriggle room around periods of adjustment.

:31:36. > :31:42.Does my friend appreciate that the nearest parallel to what is

:31:43. > :31:53.happening now in this campaign for an election is the... Order, order.

:31:54. > :32:05.Please faced the House. You were busy talking. I was being spoken to

:32:06. > :32:13.by an illustrious member of the opposition whips office. The nearest

:32:14. > :32:19.parallel is the election of 1974 when Ted Heath, the then Prime

:32:20. > :32:23.Minister, decided on a very narrow argument that the miners were on

:32:24. > :32:32.strike and it would be about who runs the country. And most general

:32:33. > :32:37.elections are about a lot of things. This one was about a specific thing,

:32:38. > :32:41.and can I say, what happened in effect was that the Labour Party

:32:42. > :32:57.finished up with the largest number of seats and the Queen said to Ted

:32:58. > :33:00.Heath, and the Liberals ran away. I appreciate that intervention and I

:33:01. > :33:06.will also make the point that if we are going to bring in comparisons

:33:07. > :33:10.with that election and 1974, an on fuzzing casualties that election was

:33:11. > :33:15.the Sunningdale agreement, the power-sharing executive that had

:33:16. > :33:23.been formed out of the 1973 executive -- an another casualties.

:33:24. > :33:27.And of course this election has been called without regard to the fact

:33:28. > :33:30.that there are sensitive negotiations going on in Northern

:33:31. > :33:34.Ireland and it is hard to see how this general election won't have an

:33:35. > :33:38.impact on those negotiations, which will cull of parties to some of the

:33:39. > :33:46.issues they are dealing with -- which will colour the parties. The

:33:47. > :33:51.British government will not be in a position to give commitments in the

:33:52. > :33:55.context of those negotiations, so how are we going to get a com brands

:33:56. > :34:03.of agreement in those kind of circumstance? -- comprehensive

:34:04. > :34:08.agreement. I do not take these issues lightly. And I cannot be

:34:09. > :34:13.dismissive of them. I want to make sure that we have the agreement

:34:14. > :34:16.fully protected and that is why I am no saboteur when it comes to

:34:17. > :34:21.anything that has been endorsed by a referendum. Least of all what the

:34:22. > :34:30.Irish people in Dost when they voted for the Good Friday agreement. --

:34:31. > :34:33.Irish people endorsed. The government are in denial that the

:34:34. > :34:39.process of Brexit has implications for that agreement. I also recognise

:34:40. > :34:44.that the agreement gives us the machinery to answer many questions

:34:45. > :34:50.for the whole island of Ireland in terms of Brexit, and it gives us the

:34:51. > :34:54.material in terms of being able to make a future in a north and south

:34:55. > :35:00.bases, in ways that continue to be funded by the EU, we treat the

:35:01. > :35:07.market as a common market, single market, and we can use the auspices

:35:08. > :35:10.of the Good Friday agreement, but there is no pretence that the

:35:11. > :35:14.election is necessary and no pretence that the Prime Minister is

:35:15. > :35:18.justified in the terms that she has used and we do not buy the pretence

:35:19. > :35:23.that the right honourable member for Belfast is giving yet again

:35:24. > :35:29.regarding Sinn Fein. This is the sort of thing that gets politics a

:35:30. > :35:33.bad name and is leading to the alienation from many of our

:35:34. > :35:36.citizens, because there's only one reason why the Prime Minister wants

:35:37. > :35:39.a general election on the 8th of June and that is she she has a

:35:40. > :35:45.better chance of winning now than she does in the future. It is

:35:46. > :35:50.therefore the most blatant abuse of the democratic procedure for party

:35:51. > :35:53.political advantage. As this campaign progresses it will be

:35:54. > :35:56.seeing is that, and this has nothing to do with the country Bosman

:35:57. > :36:03.interests and everything to do with the management of the Conservative

:36:04. > :36:06.Party -- the country's interest. The Prime Minister suggested she needs

:36:07. > :36:10.to have a majority, but she has not lost any boat on Brexit over the

:36:11. > :36:17.last year with a majority of less than 30 and she... She has not won,

:36:18. > :36:23.rather, said the majority is already there. She says this will give

:36:24. > :36:28.clarity to the Brexit process, but we have been trying now for ten long

:36:29. > :36:32.months to get clarity to the Brexit process and every question we have

:36:33. > :36:35.asked has been met with silence and with a refusal to actually say what

:36:36. > :36:43.Brexit does indeed mean. I don't believe for one minute the Tory

:36:44. > :36:48.manifesto will spell out what the plan is for Britain opposed Brexit

:36:49. > :36:54.so who is kidding who? We will not be any clearer as to what Brexit

:36:55. > :36:59.means that we are right now. The media are reporting that up to 30

:37:00. > :37:03.sitting Tory MPs face being prosecuted for electoral fraud and

:37:04. > :37:07.that the CPS service will announce whether it intends to press charges

:37:08. > :37:10.very soon. Does my right honourable friend think this might have

:37:11. > :37:16.anything to do with the Prime Minister's change of heart? Yes, it

:37:17. > :37:21.is remarkably suspicious, but my concern is that what the Prime

:37:22. > :37:26.Minister wants to do is silence dissent and disagreement in this

:37:27. > :37:30.House and in this country and therefore her instincts are not

:37:31. > :37:35.democratic, they are authoritarian and that is a great worry for our

:37:36. > :37:39.country. Can I turn to the situation in Scotland. There are two reasons

:37:40. > :37:44.why the people should be given another choice on self-government

:37:45. > :37:47.and the first is because, not because the people lost the

:37:48. > :37:50.referendum don't respect the result but because the people who won the

:37:51. > :37:57.referendum changed the deal afterwards. The UK that people voted

:37:58. > :38:01.to be part of in 2014 will no longer be there in the future, but the

:38:02. > :38:05.second is that despite a compromise position from the Scottish

:38:06. > :38:10.Government that said neither will we challenge the Brexit deal, that was

:38:11. > :38:14.thrown back in our faces, and so there is no option but to offer

:38:15. > :38:19.people in Scotland and opportunity and a choice between having a hard

:38:20. > :38:26.Tory isolationist Britain or taking control into their own hands. This

:38:27. > :38:27.doesn't require a mandate to have a second referendum because the

:38:28. > :38:35.Scottish Government already has that mandate. But this will be a judgment

:38:36. > :38:41.on your refusal to agree to the wishes of the Scottish parliament

:38:42. > :38:44.and I'm glad to ask this in finishing, if the Conservative Party

:38:45. > :38:47.loses the general election in Scotland, will you stop blocking the

:38:48. > :38:59.right of the Scottish people to have a choice? Very unfair. Thank you

:39:00. > :39:02.very much. Northern Ireland is in a brutal state as we all know at the

:39:03. > :39:08.moment and we have no executive and we have no other -- brittle. I

:39:09. > :39:14.wonder if the finest will fully consider what happens to us there.

:39:15. > :39:17.-- if the Prime Minister. Regarding our position in the union, I'm very

:39:18. > :39:21.grateful to this, and I want to get three points across. One is not

:39:22. > :39:28.about this election, which we support, but the public in Northern

:39:29. > :39:31.Ireland are fed up to the teeth with elections and they have had so many

:39:32. > :39:40.and they see no point of another assembly election. If you watched

:39:41. > :39:44.what was going on at Easter and you watched paramilitaries dressed in

:39:45. > :39:48.west Belfast and elsewhere marching, carrying the union, the European

:39:49. > :39:55.Union flag as if it was their banner, Brexit for us is a very

:39:56. > :39:58.different world and we fully support that we need to find the right way

:39:59. > :40:02.forward, but it is going to be used by Sinn Fein to really try and break

:40:03. > :40:11.up the union and we need that support. I ask that in the manifesto

:40:12. > :40:17.that they look at how they deal with Northern Ireland special status and

:40:18. > :40:21.also how you look at that manifesto at making sure that we have a

:40:22. > :40:24.workable government in the future, because we need change and that is

:40:25. > :40:30.what the Ulster union 's have been about, getting back to the central

:40:31. > :40:33.party is running Northern Ireland and making sure that the manifesto

:40:34. > :40:38.looks after our Armed Forces and former servicemen. Legacy is playing

:40:39. > :40:42.its way out but not protecting the people that should be protected for

:40:43. > :40:47.doing their duty. We will support the motion today. Two colleagues

:40:48. > :40:54.that can help each other. Mr Alan Brown. Thank you. As several members

:40:55. > :40:59.have already pointed out, the Prime Minister heads up a party with a

:41:00. > :41:06.current majority that was gained partly by her party cheating in the

:41:07. > :41:10.last general election and yet today she has the brass neck to stand

:41:11. > :41:13.there and give a speech about leadership, so I wanted, what

:41:14. > :41:22.leadership does the Prime Minister show on this? She refused to answer

:41:23. > :41:30.some questions and also questions from Glasgow South and about how

:41:31. > :41:34.some of MPs will be participating in the next election. What has she done

:41:35. > :41:44.within her party to make sure that this spending and cheating does not

:41:45. > :41:47.happen again? Upon the border. Twice the honourable member has accused

:41:48. > :41:53.members of cheating and there is no proof of cheating and he should

:41:54. > :41:57.withdraw the remarks. It is a matter of taste rather than of order but

:41:58. > :42:07.the lady has made her point with force and is on the record. Had the

:42:08. > :42:09.honourable gentleman concluded? In terms of further non-leadership

:42:10. > :42:13.interventions from the Prime Minister, she said there will be no

:42:14. > :42:16.general election and then did a massive U-turn, she could not answer

:42:17. > :42:19.why she changed her mind on the single market and we have had no

:42:20. > :42:26.evidence what the hard Tory Brexit is going to mean. She has

:42:27. > :42:29.consistently ignored the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament,

:42:30. > :42:41.so I ask her, show some real leadership. They will be more

:42:42. > :42:47.turkeys voting for Christmas if they followed the Prime Minister and

:42:48. > :42:50.dance to her tune. The Prime Minister needs 433 MPs to support

:42:51. > :42:53.her today and she has gone on television and told the welfare will

:42:54. > :42:59.be a general election if Parliament backs are full stop but if

:43:00. > :43:04.Parliament doesn't back her, will be Prime Minister resign? That answer

:43:05. > :43:10.could change the views of the Labour membership. I must now put the

:43:11. > :43:20.question, the question is, that there shall be a early Parliamentary

:43:21. > :43:31.general election, as many as there of that opinions say aye. On the

:43:32. > :45:59.contrary say noe. And the contrary say noe. Division. Clear the lobby!

:46:00. > :46:08.The question is that there shall be an early parliamentary general

:46:09. > :46:17.election. As many as are of the opinion, say, "aye". To the

:46:18. > :51:41.contrary, "no". Teller for the ayes. Teller for the noes.

:51:42. > :01:39.The ayes to the right, 532. The noes to the left... Ayes to the right,

:01:40. > :01:51.522, the noes to the left, 13. The ayes have it. On Loch.

:01:52. > :02:01.We now come to motion number three, the programme motion, do we move

:02:02. > :02:10.formerly? The question is as on the order paper, I think the ayes have

:02:11. > :02:14.it. Order. We will now have the orders of the day. Technical and

:02:15. > :02:22.further education bill, consideration of Lords amendments.

:02:23. > :02:27.Thank you. Order. I must thought the House's attention to the fact that

:02:28. > :02:34.financial privilege is engaged by Lords amendment one and I also

:02:35. > :02:39.remind the House that certain of the emotions relating to the Lords

:02:40. > :02:46.amendments will be certified as relating exclusively to England or

:02:47. > :02:53.to England and Wales as set out on deselection paper. If the House

:02:54. > :02:57.divides on any certified motion, a double majority will be required for

:02:58. > :03:05.the motion to be passed. The first Amendment to be taken is Lords

:03:06. > :03:09.amendment one with which it will be convenient to consider the other

:03:10. > :03:18.Lords amendments as on the selection paper. To move to disagree with

:03:19. > :03:22.Lords amendment one, I called the Minister Robert Halfon on. -- Robert

:03:23. > :03:48.Halfon. ... To climb the ladder of

:03:49. > :03:52.opportunity. It left this House after your thoughtful scrutiny and

:03:53. > :03:56.after similar disadvantage in the other Place, London lighted that it

:03:57. > :04:02.returns to consideration here today. -- and I'm delighted. I ask members

:04:03. > :04:07.to support the government on all the memories made to the bill in the

:04:08. > :04:10.other place I accept -- or the amendments made to the bill in the

:04:11. > :04:14.other place apart from number six and number three. I asked the House

:04:15. > :04:22.to disagree to this amendment and will ask the committee to ascribed

:04:23. > :04:31.financial privilege as the reason. By financial year 20 -- by the

:04:32. > :04:36.financial year 2020 it will mean that the parents will be eligible to

:04:37. > :04:39.child benefit as if they were in approved education and training and

:04:40. > :04:43.this is an issue where I have great interest. Apprenticeships provide a

:04:44. > :04:49.level of opportunity and we should seek to remove obstacles to social

:04:50. > :04:52.mobility where ever we can. The young person's first full-time job

:04:53. > :04:56.is a big change for them and for their family. And it marks a move

:04:57. > :05:02.into financial independence that should be celebrated. I know that

:05:03. > :05:07.the adjustment can be challenging, for the young person learning how to

:05:08. > :05:10.manage a starting wage and your outgoings, for parents who may

:05:11. > :05:14.experience a falling outcome from the benefits they previously

:05:15. > :05:19.received for that dependent child. One of the core principles of an

:05:20. > :05:24.apprenticeship is that it is a job and is treated accordingly, in the

:05:25. > :05:30.benefit system, a job which offers high quality training and offers

:05:31. > :05:34.wide opportunities and where 90% of apprentices continue into another

:05:35. > :05:39.job on completion. Most apprentices are paid above the minimum wage and

:05:40. > :05:50.the 2016 apprentice pay survey showed the average wage was ?6 70. I

:05:51. > :05:56.thank you forgiving way. Although what he is saying is correct in what

:05:57. > :06:06.he is saying, taking wage and benefit from family and Owen comes

:06:07. > :06:12.will be a disincentive -- taking child benefit from families will be

:06:13. > :06:16.a disincentive to get into work. Most apprentices get paid over ?6,

:06:17. > :06:23.and as I say most of them, 90% go into jobs or additional education

:06:24. > :06:26.afterwards. The apprenticeship programme already supports low

:06:27. > :06:31.income groups, and the funding system gives targeted support to the

:06:32. > :06:34.participation of care leavers and we are making ?60 million available

:06:35. > :06:41.this year to training providers and to support take up by apprentices

:06:42. > :06:45.from disadvantaged areas. We are committed to making sure that

:06:46. > :06:49.high-quality apprenticeships are as access as possible to people from

:06:50. > :06:54.all backgrounds. And will take forward the main recommendations for

:06:55. > :06:59.people with learning difficulties and our target on participation for

:07:00. > :07:03.black and minority ethnic groups. On the suggestion of a bursary from

:07:04. > :07:09.care leavers, understand that some young people have greater challenges

:07:10. > :07:13.to overcome. That is why we are providing ?1000 to training

:07:14. > :07:17.providers when they take on care leavers who are under-25s. We will

:07:18. > :07:22.also pay 100% of the cost of training, to small employers who

:07:23. > :07:26.employ care leavers, and there is scope for apprenticeships to benefit

:07:27. > :07:29.social mobility even more and we are working across government to use the

:07:30. > :07:36.apprenticeship programme to extend opportunities. I'm grateful to law

:07:37. > :07:41.story for tabling amendments six, this introduces a new clause into

:07:42. > :07:46.the Bill which will require Ofsted to take into account the quality of

:07:47. > :07:50.the careers office when conducting standard inspections of further

:07:51. > :07:54.education colleges and I welcome the work that Ofsted has already done to

:07:55. > :07:58.sharpen its approach. Matters relating to career provision

:07:59. > :08:05.featuring all of the judgments made by stead when inspecting Effie and

:08:06. > :08:09.skills providers. Destination data published in 16-18 performance

:08:10. > :08:14.tables is also becoming an established part of college

:08:15. > :08:18.accountability. These are important steps and I want to pay tribute to

:08:19. > :08:22.the good work that has already been going on throughout the further

:08:23. > :08:26.education sector to repair students -- prepare students for the

:08:27. > :08:29.workplace. The annual report from Ofsted last year it cites the

:08:30. > :08:32.excellent work of Derby college which has set up in Poyet academies

:08:33. > :08:39.where learners benefit throughout their course from a range of

:08:40. > :08:43.activities -- employer academies. Masterclasses and enterprise

:08:44. > :08:48.activities. However, in the same report Ofsted notes that the quality

:08:49. > :08:50.of information and advice and guidance in further education

:08:51. > :08:56.providers can be variable and does not always meet the range of student

:08:57. > :09:02.needs. And that is why I want to use this opportunity to go through this

:09:03. > :09:06.further. The amendment will signal our determination to make sure that

:09:07. > :09:10.every further education student has access to good quality, dedicated

:09:11. > :09:13.careers advice, something I know that this House supports, and that

:09:14. > :09:21.is vital if we are to tackle the skills gap and make sure that we

:09:22. > :09:23.have opportunities for everyone. We propose drafting amendments to make

:09:24. > :09:28.sure it achieves the intended effect. The amendment makes it clear

:09:29. > :09:32.that Ofsted must comment on the quality of the college 's career

:09:33. > :09:38.provision in the inspection report. And I urge honourable members to

:09:39. > :09:41.accept this amendment. Further education colleges are engines of

:09:42. > :09:45.social mobility and this is our chance to make sure that students

:09:46. > :09:49.from all backgrounds can access the support they need to get on that

:09:50. > :09:57.ladder of opportunity and benefit from the best skills and education

:09:58. > :10:00.training. I now turn to the amendments the government asked the

:10:01. > :10:05.House to accept without any further amends. The government supports

:10:06. > :10:09.amendment two which requires schools to give education and training

:10:10. > :10:14.providers the opportunity to talk directly to pupils about approved

:10:15. > :10:19.technical education qualifications and apprenticeships that they offer.

:10:20. > :10:24.I would like to place on record my significant gratitude to Lord Baker

:10:25. > :10:27.for tabling the amendment and for his unstinting support for the

:10:28. > :10:33.government's technical education reforms. As I've explained,

:10:34. > :10:37.high-quality careers advice is the first rung on the ladder of

:10:38. > :10:40.opportunity. And will play a key part in realising our ambition of

:10:41. > :10:46.high-quality skills education and training. This law is amendment

:10:47. > :10:50.strengthens the bill by making sure that young people here more about

:10:51. > :10:58.the merits of technical education and the recognition that they are

:10:59. > :11:02.worthy career paths and I hope that never again when I go around the

:11:03. > :11:07.country and visit apprentices and colleges will I meet apprentices and

:11:08. > :11:10.organisations who are refused access to the schools that they were taught

:11:11. > :11:15.in themselves, to talk about apprenticeships. I welcome the

:11:16. > :11:20.proposal that the minister is putting forward will stop we have

:11:21. > :11:24.lots of evidence that schools are not allowing further education

:11:25. > :11:31.colleges and apprenticeship providers access to young students

:11:32. > :11:38.to see what the options are post-16 and that is because of the bums on

:11:39. > :11:43.seats funding regime which exists in schools for instance for post-16

:11:44. > :11:46.studies. How are we going to get round the deep-seated culture which

:11:47. > :11:51.exists in schools which actually precludes careers advisers and other

:11:52. > :11:58.providers from getting into schools to provide that independent and

:11:59. > :12:04.partial won impartial advice? -- and impartial advice? You speak a lot of

:12:05. > :12:08.sense on this issue, and every time I meet an apprentice in any part of

:12:09. > :12:14.the country, I ask a digital score encourage you to do the

:12:15. > :12:18.apprenticeship? -- I ask, did your score encourage you for them nine

:12:19. > :12:27.times out of ten there wasn't any encouragement. This amendment, I

:12:28. > :12:33.believe, will make a huge difference because technical bodies and

:12:34. > :12:38.apprenticeships will be able to go into the school and their published

:12:39. > :12:44.policy guidance on this, but I agree with you, it's a huge part of this,

:12:45. > :12:53.a cultural change. This is why I talk about the parity of esteem, the

:12:54. > :12:58.word used, until we have parity of esteem between skills and technical

:12:59. > :13:01.education and between going to university which is also a wonderful

:13:02. > :13:08.thing to do, then we won't achieve the cultural change that you talk

:13:09. > :13:14.about. There is a problem with that, training providers themselves going

:13:15. > :13:22.into schools have a vested interest, as much as the schools themselves in

:13:23. > :13:27.terms of securing those students, so is it not true that we need a more

:13:28. > :13:31.robust advice and guidance process which does not include the vested

:13:32. > :13:38.interests of anybody in particular. We are looking at careers guidance

:13:39. > :13:43.in the long-term, how you can gear careers guidance and make it more

:13:44. > :13:46.skills focused for top the enterprise company, getting people

:13:47. > :13:49.to do work experience, the money we are investing in those things, that

:13:50. > :13:54.will help, but there are no easy answers. There are some great

:13:55. > :13:58.private providers who would love to go into schools and there are a

:13:59. > :14:01.great number of further education colleges that would love to go into

:14:02. > :14:06.schools but this is an important step forward to change the culture

:14:07. > :14:08.and also make sure that pupils have the access to learn about

:14:09. > :14:18.apprenticeships and technical education and skills that they need.

:14:19. > :14:21.Amendment three introduced a new clause in the bill, specifically

:14:22. > :14:29.providing full regulations to be made about the delivery of

:14:30. > :14:32.documents, about an insolvent registry and how that is kept by the

:14:33. > :14:39.public, and essentially because allows for the proper management of

:14:40. > :14:43.the paperwork by an further education body and the government

:14:44. > :14:46.was able to accept amendment four put forward by the noble Lords and

:14:47. > :14:54.the other place to defeat the words -- delete the words if possible. It

:14:55. > :14:59.was intended to offer reassurance to creditors and the education

:15:00. > :15:02.administrator that the education administration would not continue

:15:03. > :15:07.indefinitely while we waited for the education administrator to achieve

:15:08. > :15:11.the impossible. Instead it cause concern here and in the other place

:15:12. > :15:19.that student protection is some way lessened the bar but that was not

:15:20. > :15:22.our intention. -- is some way lessened, but that was not our

:15:23. > :15:31.intention for them we have tried to address these concerns. Amendment

:15:32. > :15:37.five tried to fully apply the company directors disqualification

:15:38. > :15:42.act, to further education bodies in England and Wales. The new version

:15:43. > :15:48.of clause 40 formerly clause 37 still allows the court to disqualify

:15:49. > :15:51.any governors who find it liable of wrongdoing from being governors and

:15:52. > :15:55.also from being company directors in any part of the UK. It fully

:15:56. > :16:01.prevents disqualify individuals from being able to, in a different way,

:16:02. > :16:03.repeat mistakes they have made potentially at the expense of

:16:04. > :16:08.another further education institution. We have amended this

:16:09. > :16:12.clause to close a potential loophole in the Bill and more fully protect

:16:13. > :16:18.learners at institutions from the potential actions of any governor

:16:19. > :16:23.who acts recklessly. The existing regime is effective as a finely

:16:24. > :16:28.balanced a tyrant, for company directors, it is rare that directors

:16:29. > :16:30.find liable and its existence and insolvency legislation does not

:16:31. > :16:35.inhibit people from choosing to become company directors, but helps

:16:36. > :16:42.prevent poor financial management. The presence causes company

:16:43. > :16:45.directors to reflect carefully on their financial decisions and the

:16:46. > :16:49.potential consequences of acting wrongfully in relation to predators.

:16:50. > :16:53.We want to have the same deterrent effect for college governors,

:16:54. > :16:57.governors might not appreciate the full consequence if they are still

:16:58. > :17:01.able to act as company directors and can set up a company to run a

:17:02. > :17:02.college. They might be prepared to operate with a greater degree of

:17:03. > :17:11.risk. The amendment also ensures that

:17:12. > :17:21.governors of FC bodies are on par with governments of academies to

:17:22. > :17:26.whom the CDDA also applies. Another amendment adds an additional clause

:17:27. > :17:31.as far as it relates to section 462 of the insolvency act, the parts of

:17:32. > :17:37.the bill to extend to all parts of the UK. This does not change the

:17:38. > :17:44.application of FC and insolvency regime to bodies in England and

:17:45. > :17:48.Wales, it ensures cooperation if necessary in the courts of different

:17:49. > :18:01.parts of the UK in matters of insolvency of FC bodies. -- F E. The

:18:02. > :18:13.bill allows the Institute of apprenticeships to share data with

:18:14. > :18:16.Ofsted, of course -- Ofqual and other institutions. This provision

:18:17. > :18:22.is necessary because the bodies with which the industry will co-operate

:18:23. > :18:28.are expected to change over time. The amendments ensure the Institute

:18:29. > :18:37.can function effectively in future. I turned to amendment 11 to 18. They

:18:38. > :18:43.were prompted by discussions in this House. It was clear we shared a

:18:44. > :18:46.common concern to ensure that care leavers receive appropriate help and

:18:47. > :18:53.support should their college become insolvent. Members opposite

:18:54. > :18:57.including the Shadow Minister were very clear that care leavers are

:18:58. > :19:02.particularly vulnerable and I agree. That is why I undertook to reflect

:19:03. > :19:07.on how we might best support such individuals. I am pleased we could

:19:08. > :19:11.bring forward these amendments to schedules three and four which will

:19:12. > :19:15.require the administrator to send a copy of their proposals to the

:19:16. > :19:19.Director of children's services at the relevant local authority and

:19:20. > :19:23.this will ensure that the director of children's services is not

:19:24. > :19:27.formally be college insolvency and can take action to provide support

:19:28. > :19:33.for any care leavers affected by the proposals. I ask honourable members

:19:34. > :19:41.to support the Government on these amendments. The question is this

:19:42. > :19:48.House disagrees with the Lord's in their amendment one. Gordon Marsden.

:19:49. > :19:53.I am grateful to the Minister for his considered exposition of the

:19:54. > :19:59.Government's position, particularly in respect of the amendments with

:20:00. > :20:07.which we are not going to be in dispute this afternoon. I shall say

:20:08. > :20:16.something particularly about amendment two when I came to

:20:17. > :20:19.amendment on. I want to put on the record that we welcome the change

:20:20. > :20:24.the Government is making particularly in the technical parts

:20:25. > :20:27.of the bill. The devil is in the detail of these things and they're

:20:28. > :20:32.not always right first time around and this time I am happy the

:20:33. > :20:39.Government has reflected on that and I take on board what the honourable

:20:40. > :20:47.gentleman said in respect of care leavers and local authorities. Can I

:20:48. > :21:00.say that I think the recent discussions in the House on the

:21:01. > :21:05.children's social acts on which my honourable friend played a positive

:21:06. > :21:10.and constructive part, have been a useful focus to bring forward the

:21:11. > :21:17.amendments he has put forward today. I am grateful for that. I am also

:21:18. > :21:22.grateful for the widening out of the sharing of information on schedule

:21:23. > :21:37.on. Hopefully we can fish some of the letters out of the

:21:38. > :21:42.soup and make them work together a little easier than they would have

:21:43. > :21:51.done otherwise. I want to turn now to amendment number one. He says it

:21:52. > :21:58.could be regarded as an issue of financial privilege and he also says

:21:59. > :22:02.he has great interest in these issues in terms of financial support

:22:03. > :22:07.and the rest of it and I accept that and I hope the honourable gentleman

:22:08. > :22:13.will understand I have never at any stage in any other committees we sat

:22:14. > :22:21.on, I have never in any shape or form as far as I am aware disavowed

:22:22. > :22:27.his good intentions and indeed his commitment to these issues of

:22:28. > :22:32.equality but of course warm words of themselves to not necessarily carry

:22:33. > :22:38.through the projects that we might all want to see and when he says

:22:39. > :22:43.about most apprenticeships having benefits at the moment then of

:22:44. > :22:46.course one has to ask about what the fate is for those people who do not

:22:47. > :22:55.have those benefits and when he says about it being ?200 million

:22:56. > :22:58.proposed, since we are already committing ?60 million as he said to

:22:59. > :23:05.training providers, I am not sure it is a very strong powerful argument.

:23:06. > :23:09.I will give way in a little while as I want to make progress on the main

:23:10. > :23:17.issue and then I will give way. I am very proud of the fact that the

:23:18. > :23:21.noble Lords considered this matter, speaking in support of amendment

:23:22. > :23:24.number one, in considerable detail and in doing so revealed how much

:23:25. > :23:33.further the Government needed to go in this area and in my view it it

:23:34. > :23:37.still needs to go further. The Times education supplement in February

:23:38. > :23:45.published a chart which spelt out the current gap in support between

:23:46. > :23:49.student and apprenticeships no access to learning grants, no access

:23:50. > :23:55.for their families to Universal Credit or council tax credit and

:23:56. > :24:01.most relevant in terms of amendment were on, no access to child benefit.

:24:02. > :24:05.These amendments would enable families eligible for child benefit

:24:06. > :24:09.to receive it for children aged under 20 undertaking

:24:10. > :24:13.apprenticeships. We understand on our side of the House and I'm sure

:24:14. > :24:18.they do on the other that it is not simply the benefit itself, it is the

:24:19. > :24:25.doors that it opens to other benefits which is a key element in

:24:26. > :24:30.the question. I will give way. I listened to his argument carefully

:24:31. > :24:38.which seems to involve a spending commitment of ?200 million. How will

:24:39. > :24:42.he pay for it? We do not recognise the figure of ?200 million in the

:24:43. > :24:46.first instance and secondly the point I have already made is that

:24:47. > :24:52.the Government is already committing ?60 million to training providers so

:24:53. > :24:57.why he is raising the issue of 200 million which would be aggregated

:24:58. > :25:01.over time, I do not know. I will not give way again because I want to

:25:02. > :25:06.make progress. The amendment calls for the Secretary of State to use

:25:07. > :25:11.amendments to make provisions to assure apprenticeships are regarded

:25:12. > :25:17.as approved training. The apprenticeship programme has seen

:25:18. > :25:23.the apprentice levy this month while setting the target of a printer

:25:24. > :25:27.ships by 2020. Many commentators have continued to raise real

:25:28. > :25:31.questions about the potential quality of new apprenticeships. It

:25:32. > :25:35.is really important that in reducing the growing skills gap in this

:25:36. > :25:42.country, apprentices are not given a raw deal. Lord Watson spelt it out

:25:43. > :25:49.vividly in the House of Lords when he said why should families suffer

:25:50. > :25:53.as we seek to train young people desperately needed to fill the

:25:54. > :26:00.skills gap in the economy? We simply ask that question. I am well aware

:26:01. > :26:04.as we have discussed this in committee in this place and the

:26:05. > :26:06.other, that apprenticeships are not currently classed as approved

:26:07. > :26:13.educational training by the Department for Work and Pensions.

:26:14. > :26:20.That is one of the reasons why we have raised this issue so many times

:26:21. > :26:27.and the honourable gentleman needs to reflect, it seems to me on what

:26:28. > :26:33.the situation is of apprentices who live with parents whose families

:26:34. > :26:38.could lose out by more than ?1000 per year through not being able to

:26:39. > :26:42.access child benefit, and under Universal Credit could lose more

:26:43. > :26:47.than ?3200 per year. If the Government wants to get back target

:26:48. > :26:57.it cannot be in anyone's interest for to be close to young people keen

:26:58. > :27:07.to embark on an apprenticeship. The predecessor government was very fond

:27:08. > :27:11.of the concept of nudge to achieve results but people can be nudged

:27:12. > :27:16.away from things as well as towards them and in some circumstances

:27:17. > :27:21.parents may prevent young people taking up apprenticeships because of

:27:22. > :27:25.their economic consequences to the family which could be considerable.

:27:26. > :27:33.Lawrence in their debate on the 27th of every made this point. Baroness

:27:34. > :27:40.garden said only 10% of apprenticeships taken up by families

:27:41. > :27:43.on free school meals. The loss of child benefit was a significant

:27:44. > :27:52.penalty. Baroness wolf spoke strongly on this. She said, echoing

:27:53. > :27:55.what the minister said, that there needs to be genuine parity if the

:27:56. > :28:00.Government wants to fulfil a holistic vision. As I have said, the

:28:01. > :28:05.list of exclusions printed in the Times education. Element justify

:28:06. > :28:09.their anger and disappointment that the union of students and

:28:10. > :28:16.apprenticeship organisations feel that they are being treated like

:28:17. > :28:20.second-class citizens. Research has shown, and I accept what the

:28:21. > :28:27.minister said that some apprentices are being paid on both -- above

:28:28. > :28:36.minimum wage but some also earn as little as ?3.50 per hour. He has

:28:37. > :28:43.been generous with his interventions. Talking about

:28:44. > :28:46.financial matters, he said he did not recognise this figure of 200

:28:47. > :28:55.million. How much would his policy cost? Those are issues which would

:28:56. > :28:57.be taken forward over a five-year period and the ?200 million figure

:28:58. > :29:03.that the honourable gentleman from the front bench quoted earlier as

:29:04. > :29:07.not being recognised and I don't intend to engage with it further as

:29:08. > :29:13.there has been no further detail given on that point. Now, I am sorry

:29:14. > :29:25.I will not give way again. He has had two shouts. I'm going to

:29:26. > :29:37.continue so he can stop shouting. This will have a negative effect on

:29:38. > :29:40.family income. The apprentice minimum wage is barely over ?3 per

:29:41. > :29:53.hour. The National Society for apprenticeships ton apprentices said

:29:54. > :30:04.it is inconsistent that apprentices are excluded ton if apprenticeships

:30:05. > :30:13.are to be seen as a top tier option then the benefits should be top tier

:30:14. > :30:19.as well. University students receive assistance from a range of sources

:30:20. > :30:22.from accessing finance to discounted rates on council tax and apprentices

:30:23. > :30:29.currently do not receive many of those benefits and the Lord's agree

:30:30. > :30:36.that those systems should be changed. He mentioned that some

:30:37. > :30:42.apprentices were paid more than the apprentice minimum wage. Is he aware

:30:43. > :30:51.that 82% of apprentices are paid at or above the appropriate national

:30:52. > :30:55.minimum or living wage? Those are figures from his department and I

:30:56. > :31:00.will not dispute them on this particular occasion but what we are

:31:01. > :31:04.trying to do is set in legislation, legislation that will be valid for

:31:05. > :31:09.five, ten or 15 years and it seems far more appropriate to me to have a

:31:10. > :31:20.principle under which everybody has equal access rather than trading

:31:21. > :31:25.figures all day on how many apprentices are not in that

:31:26. > :31:32.position, and I do not believe that we should go down that route.

:31:33. > :31:38.The NUS Vice President for further education made the point again that

:31:39. > :31:41.if apprentices, friendships are going to be the silver bullet to

:31:42. > :31:45.create the high skilled economy for the future, the government has got

:31:46. > :31:53.to go further and genuinely support apprentices to succeed. In support

:31:54. > :31:57.of this amendment, the learning and work Institute has said there are

:31:58. > :31:59.current participation penalties for learning and disadvantaged young

:32:00. > :32:04.people who take an apprenticeship compared to an academic pathway can

:32:05. > :32:11.this -- and this amendment would help to treating apprentices in

:32:12. > :32:18.support of the benefit system, and the government's decision to exclude

:32:19. > :32:20.apprenticeships will serve as a deterrent against people especially

:32:21. > :32:26.those from disadvantaged backgrounds. But together and

:32:27. > :32:34.without any change to the category apprentices are placed in by the DWP

:32:35. > :32:38.and the FE has got to accept that, the government are providing a

:32:39. > :32:42.severe financial disincentive for young people to enter into an

:32:43. > :32:45.apprenticeship as opposed to other routes of education. And that is

:32:46. > :32:54.what the National Society of apprenticeships have said. In the

:32:55. > :32:59.other place the honourable gentleman's colleague said there

:33:00. > :33:03.would be discussions about this issue with colleagues in the

:33:04. > :33:08.Department for Work and Pensions, but they didn't happen. The Minister

:33:09. > :33:11.has told me on previous occasions that this was something that needed

:33:12. > :33:15.to be addressed and discussed with other departments. But it hasn't

:33:16. > :33:22.happened. This is a government which has long given us rhetoric but is

:33:23. > :33:26.short on delivery and a dish on people who are suffering. And the

:33:27. > :33:32.government is now blocking a modest proposal from the House of Lords to

:33:33. > :33:35.begin to remedy their inability to do joined up government -- and it is

:33:36. > :33:45.young people who are suffering. I will give way. He will know and I

:33:46. > :33:50.have mentioned just before that we are doing a social mobility review

:33:51. > :33:55.looking at a range of issues from benefits to incentives to providers

:33:56. > :34:03.and employers in terms of getting more disadvantaged apprentices from

:34:04. > :34:06.disadvantaged backgrounds and say we are not doing this is entirely wrong

:34:07. > :34:14.because there is a lot of work going into this areas. I'm grateful for

:34:15. > :34:19.that. And the broader perspective of social mobility and the rest of it

:34:20. > :34:26.is a perfectly reasonable way of going forward in this matter but I

:34:27. > :34:32.think to be honest and especially at a time like today where we are going

:34:33. > :34:36.to be moving shortly into a general election, I think most people would

:34:37. > :34:43.be interested in some movement, rather than promising jam in the

:34:44. > :34:47.future from the social mobility studies that are going on and there

:34:48. > :34:51.are other areas which I will talk about, where, I'm afraid, the

:34:52. > :35:01.government has moved at a reasonably glacial pace and that is why I'm not

:35:02. > :35:05.impressed by his argument although I appreciate his commitment to try to

:35:06. > :35:09.do something. I want to speak in support of the second part of the

:35:10. > :35:13.amendment which talks about opening benefits to care leavers by opening

:35:14. > :35:17.access to a bursary traditionally only applicable to university

:35:18. > :35:20.students. And people in local authority care who move into higher

:35:21. > :35:25.education can apply for a one off bursary of ?2000 from a local

:35:26. > :35:30.authority and this amendment would make sure that care leavers who take

:35:31. > :35:35.up apprenticeships would be able to access that financial support as

:35:36. > :35:39.well. Can I remind the Minister of what the Children's Society has

:35:40. > :35:44.said, that every year around and never thousand young people aged 16

:35:45. > :35:48.or over leave the care of their local authority and begin the

:35:49. > :35:53.difficult transition out of care and into adult had which he recognised

:35:54. > :36:01.in my honourable friend, the member for

:36:02. > :36:05.South Shields, tabled an amendment to provide for such a local offer to

:36:06. > :36:10.care leavers. But this government has a golden opportunity to follow

:36:11. > :36:18.up on this, by focusing on support where the DWP could provide this

:36:19. > :36:21.process and I am at a loss to understand why the government is

:36:22. > :36:27.ignoring this process. Or this possibility. They could make

:36:28. > :36:29.provision from the apprenticeship levy for local authorities to

:36:30. > :36:36.administer a ?2000 grant for care leavers. Often when care leavers

:36:37. > :36:39.move into independent living they begin to manage their own budget

:36:40. > :36:44.fully for the first time and this move can take place earlier than

:36:45. > :36:51.others in their playgroup. Remember, a care leavers could be earning,

:36:52. > :36:57.could be earning, sometimes often is, as little as ?3 40 an hour

:36:58. > :37:03.before being able to transition to a higher wage in the second year. And

:37:04. > :37:07.evidence from services and research has revealed how challenging care

:37:08. > :37:10.leavers can find managing that budget because of the lack of

:37:11. > :37:15.financial support they receive and the lack of financial education. As

:37:16. > :37:20.result young carers are falling frequently into debt and financial

:37:21. > :37:27.difficulty. The Minister really does need to put himself in their shoes.

:37:28. > :37:32.His honourable friend could tell us all from his own family perspective

:37:33. > :37:38.how vulnerable young people can be who come from disturbed and

:37:39. > :37:44.difficult family backgrounds. The question remains, why aren't the

:37:45. > :37:48.government prepared to retain this amendment to the bill? It is all

:37:49. > :37:57.very well having fine words, but you may know the old proverb, fine words

:37:58. > :38:00.but no parsnips. What are the bureaucratic item is doing nothing

:38:01. > :38:06.to support hard-working young people and their families -- bureaucratic

:38:07. > :38:09.argument. To help them fulfil their hopes of better times via an

:38:10. > :38:14.apprenticeship. We talk about parity of esteem between students and

:38:15. > :38:18.apprentices and some of these young people have struggled through

:38:19. > :38:25.circumstances to have any strong sense of esteem so why haven't the

:38:26. > :38:30.government moved on this? Why have the consultations with DWP not taken

:38:31. > :38:38.place? Was the minister nobbled on this by some of the number ten

:38:39. > :38:45.trustees? The way we have been led down the path to GCSE resets. If the

:38:46. > :38:50.government does not retain this amendment, people will know that

:38:51. > :38:53.their rhetoric on this matter has been somewhat hollow and apprentices

:38:54. > :39:04.and their families will suffer. I want now to move to amendments

:39:05. > :39:13.number two and six, and if I can join with the Minister in supporting

:39:14. > :39:21.the moment two which he referred to and which I will refer to as well.

:39:22. > :39:29.But I also want to talk about amendment six which was carried...

:39:30. > :39:34.Amendment two, sorry. Which was carried in the Lords and I also want

:39:35. > :39:39.to talk about amendment six. The lack of parity of esteem for

:39:40. > :39:45.apprentices can start at an early age and as my honourable friend has

:39:46. > :39:50.illustrated in the constructive exchange we had with the Minister,

:39:51. > :39:56.the rhetoric on careers advice does not match the painful reality which

:39:57. > :40:00.faces many younger people. Careers advice after 2010 over the last

:40:01. > :40:06.parliament was decimated and was certainly decimated at local level.

:40:07. > :40:12.And young people who want to take a vocational and apprenticeship route

:40:13. > :40:17.are in danger of being short-changed again over their future careers

:40:18. > :40:23.advice. The picture incidentally of supporting schools so far, despite

:40:24. > :40:30.the work of the careers and enterprise company, which is still

:40:31. > :40:37.in its infancy, remains poor. Both Koreas England, the trade body for

:40:38. > :40:40.careers Gueye said violence and the careers development Institute have

:40:41. > :40:48.confirmed to me recently that in their view -- trade body for careers

:40:49. > :40:56.guidance Institute. Their view is that only a third of schools are

:40:57. > :41:01.able adequately to deliver careers advice and the shortage of careers

:41:02. > :41:06.advisers and the fact that those who remain are earning far less than

:41:07. > :41:13.they used to do a that adds up to a very difficult position. That is one

:41:14. > :41:19.of the reasons why last year in November the co-chairs of the

:41:20. > :41:24.educational schools economy, said that the government had been

:41:25. > :41:28.complacent over careers advice and they said the lack of action to

:41:29. > :41:33.address this was not acceptable and it smacks of complacency. I know the

:41:34. > :41:41.Minister challenges that considerably and I know again that

:41:42. > :41:44.he has an on-board... He has put on record that the government is

:41:45. > :41:47.working to a thorough careers strategy in that respect, but we

:41:48. > :41:53.have got to deal to date with what the situation is today, not with

:41:54. > :41:58.what it might be under a strategy of whatever government is going to be

:41:59. > :42:05.around at the end of the year. The industry apprenticeship Council

:42:06. > :42:09.showed 42% of respondents found out about apprenticeships from schools

:42:10. > :42:12.and colleges and that using 1's own initiative remained the most common

:42:13. > :42:17.way for young person to discover those apprenticeships. It also said

:42:18. > :42:20.that there needed to be changing careers information advice and

:42:21. > :42:30.guidance because of the proportion of respondents saying it had been

:42:31. > :42:35.very poor. That is why the House of Lords has produced these two quite

:42:36. > :42:40.detailed and comprehensive amendments because those overall

:42:41. > :42:45.issues are not being addressed. To promote apprenticeships in schools,

:42:46. > :42:50.strong careers guidance is critical, and if we are to make a six S of the

:42:51. > :42:54.Institute it is crucial that young people are alerted early enough on

:42:55. > :43:01.their school life to the attraction of technical roads and that is one

:43:02. > :43:07.of the things that the amendment number two on the other house, which

:43:08. > :43:11.we supported, makes very clear. If the minister doesn't think that the

:43:12. > :43:14.Lords amendment on careers advice is necessary, maybe he would like to

:43:15. > :43:19.explain just how and when the government is going to get a grip on

:43:20. > :43:27.the existing fractured landscape of careers advice which is revealed by

:43:28. > :43:30.his own department. Now last month, and it wasn't bedtime reading, so

:43:31. > :43:37.I'm not surprised if members have not read it, but last month the

:43:38. > :43:42.Department for Education produced a report, economic evaluation of the

:43:43. > :43:46.careers service and this report was produced by London economics and

:43:47. > :43:47.originally commissioned by the former Department for Business,

:43:48. > :43:52.Innovation and Skills to undertake an evaluation of the impact of the

:43:53. > :43:57.National careers service. The service has changed considerably in

:43:58. > :43:59.the five years since it was introduced by the Minister's

:44:00. > :44:04.predecessor, the member for South Holland. That started out

:44:05. > :44:10.essentially and I have the benefit of discussions with his predecessor,

:44:11. > :44:15.and he was very clear at that time that the National careers service

:44:16. > :44:19.was principally going to be for the over 24s and that process has

:44:20. > :44:25.changed. I'm not necessarily criticising that fact, but it has

:44:26. > :44:30.certainly migrated in a fashion which was not planned, and if you

:44:31. > :44:34.look at the website for the National careers service it talks about

:44:35. > :44:44.anyone being aged over 13 or over having access to the date C -- the

:44:45. > :44:48.data. But the problem with this, only 15-22% of the customers, and

:44:49. > :44:50.I'm taking these figures from the report the government have

:44:51. > :44:57.commission, were referred by Jobcentre plus, and the remainder

:44:58. > :45:03.were self referring. Does not in that speak volumes for the lack of

:45:04. > :45:06.joined up government on this matter between the Department for Education

:45:07. > :45:12.and the Department for Work and Pensions? I will. In some respects

:45:13. > :45:20.you are being generous to the government because I think the

:45:21. > :45:27.careers advice has been laid waste by the government policy since 2010.

:45:28. > :45:29.We need to get back to a point where youngsters are having available to

:45:30. > :45:36.them independent and impartial advice and guidance on their future

:45:37. > :45:40.career, without that independence and impartiality, we could get back

:45:41. > :45:44.to the point of vested interests giving advice to young people and I

:45:45. > :45:50.remember Malcolm Wicks Ferring to this in the 90s when he said much

:45:51. > :45:52.advice given to people was akin to pensions mis-selling -- Malcolm

:45:53. > :46:10.Wicks referring. Those are the things that we need to

:46:11. > :46:15.think very hard about indeed. The national careers service has

:46:16. > :46:23.migrated in some substantial fashion and that might not in itself be a

:46:24. > :46:28.bad thing but what I would like to know is what is the connectivity

:46:29. > :46:32.between the national careers service and the careers and enterprise

:46:33. > :46:38.company if that area of coverage is going to start as early as 13? I

:46:39. > :46:43.would like to know what the connectivity is in that process. And

:46:44. > :46:48.of course the very disappointing fact from the impact report said

:46:49. > :46:52.that the research is could not identify a positive impact of the

:46:53. > :46:55.national careers service on employment or benefit dependency

:46:56. > :47:01.outcomes, arguably their main purpose. This is another example why

:47:02. > :47:05.it has been essential for the Government to act on the careers

:47:06. > :47:09.strategy and why their failure so far to do so has made these

:47:10. > :47:15.amendments so important. With the expansion of apprenticeship and

:47:16. > :47:19.introduction of chemical education it is even more important students

:47:20. > :47:32.and apprentices have all the information they need for and

:47:33. > :47:37.informed decision. I warmly welcome amendment to Lord Baker's amendment

:47:38. > :47:44.and cross-party support which would ensure schools must give advice on

:47:45. > :47:48.apprenticeships. It matters because knowledge in general is power and

:47:49. > :47:54.unbiased knowledge is very important indeed. It is also why my honourable

:47:55. > :48:01.friend the member for Scunthorpe introduced a ten minute rule Bill

:48:02. > :48:07.which would require schools to give access to pupils and representatives

:48:08. > :48:14.from post 16 education it institutions to give guidance. This

:48:15. > :48:19.is also why an amendment six is important. I'm encouraged by the

:48:20. > :48:25.fact that the new Ofsted chief inspector is sympathetic to offset

:48:26. > :48:31.making a stronger case to ensure apprenticeships rate higher in

:48:32. > :48:36.information given in schools. The Lords have pointed out this will

:48:37. > :48:42.need more resources for Ofsted. As my noble friend pointed out. If we

:48:43. > :48:45.do not get this integration between the careers and enterprise company

:48:46. > :48:51.and the national careers service, what we ask Ofsted to do will not

:48:52. > :48:58.work. What is the Minister's response to these arguments? Why are

:48:59. > :49:02.the national careers service and the careers and enterprise company

:49:03. > :49:09.apparently going on different lines? If he doesn't want to accept

:49:10. > :49:13.amendments it is, what guarantees can you get to this House or the

:49:14. > :49:24.noble Lords that they will get the work that they need?

:49:25. > :49:40.I'd like to speak very briefly with a comment on amendment six. What is

:49:41. > :49:47.the Government aim achieving? I want to give an impression on what noble

:49:48. > :49:53.Lord story sought to achieve by amendment six. We have acknowledged

:49:54. > :50:06.chewing the course of babes so far that careers advice is variable and

:50:07. > :50:13.-- course of debates. Monitoring advice would help to see how good or

:50:14. > :50:20.bad it is. At committee stage in the Lords, Lord Nash described careers

:50:21. > :50:24.advice as always pretty poorer. And a 2013 Ofsted report established

:50:25. > :50:29.that three quarters of schools did not abide effective advice or as the

:50:30. > :50:35.honourable member of North Shields pointed out, impartial advice.

:50:36. > :50:41.Guidance given to schools was not sufficiently explicit and employers

:50:42. > :50:47.in many places were not engaging and the national careers service was not

:50:48. > :50:51.effectively promoted. It was a key conclusion in the Ofsted report that

:50:52. > :51:02.school advice should be assessed when taking into account general

:51:03. > :51:06.leadership in the case of FE. I think the Minister accepts all that

:51:07. > :51:14.and I know he has produced a variation or a difference from the

:51:15. > :51:17.initial amendment for the Lords. I would like to satisfy me and the

:51:18. > :51:20.House in general that it actually complies with what the Lords

:51:21. > :51:35.intended to achieve through amendments in the first place. If I

:51:36. > :51:46.can give leave to close this debate. I thank the honourable gentleman for

:51:47. > :51:53.his ton I understand he is stepping down so it as being... I know he is

:51:54. > :51:59.an experienced member of the House and I wish him every good wish in

:52:00. > :52:07.the future for that. Just to answer his question, what we are doing is

:52:08. > :52:17.accepting in essence the amendment that was suggested by Lord story but

:52:18. > :52:29.we have just made it tighter in terms of legal... Ofsted will be

:52:30. > :52:34.able to comment on careers in their reports. So, tightening it for legal

:52:35. > :52:41.reasons and making it slightly stronger but we accept the amendment

:52:42. > :52:45.and the principle of the amendment. I have set out earlier the

:52:46. > :52:50.Government was my position on the majority of these amendments which

:52:51. > :52:54.serve to strengthen the measures of the bill and ensure their success in

:52:55. > :52:58.practice and I urge honourable members to accept all the amendments

:52:59. > :53:05.made in the Lords with the exception of amendment one. As earlier

:53:06. > :53:09.explained, it is subject to financial privilege and I ask

:53:10. > :53:14.members to reject it on that basis, noting the work I set out earlier

:53:15. > :53:18.demonstrating our commitment to finding the most effective ways to

:53:19. > :53:25.address barriers for the disadvantaged and apprenticeships.

:53:26. > :53:36.The honourable gentleman said we should put our money where our mouth

:53:37. > :53:42.is. We have my hundred thousand -- 900,000 apprentices at the moment.

:53:43. > :53:49.20% come from the poorest fifth of areas and in terms of the national

:53:50. > :53:55.careers service they have something like over 1300 enterprise advisers

:53:56. > :54:03.going into schools. They are set to target 250,000 students in 75% of

:54:04. > :54:07.career cold spots. The national career services there to give

:54:08. > :54:11.careers and CV advice and personal contact people can either see

:54:12. > :54:22.face-to-face or on the telephone or Internet. They have different roles.

:54:23. > :54:28.I ask our members to accept amendment six on which many noble

:54:29. > :54:32.Lords spoke. I spoke of the positive activity taking place at Derby

:54:33. > :54:37.College, by no means the only college taking active steps to

:54:38. > :54:46.provide high-quality careers advice to students. We have seen incredible

:54:47. > :54:52.work in other places. We want to ensure all young people can access

:54:53. > :54:56.such support and ask members to support this ambition by accepting

:54:57. > :55:04.the amendment. He has been very generous. I know he is determined

:55:05. > :55:08.and full of good intentions on this but good intentions to not provide

:55:09. > :55:14.sound careers advice and guidance to young people in the system now and I

:55:15. > :55:18.think we need more urgency from the Government in terms of backing up

:55:19. > :55:28.that intention, which is a decent and well intentioned intention, to

:55:29. > :55:34.make sure young people get impartial advice and guidance as soon as

:55:35. > :55:46.possible. I thank him for his intervention. 90 million to be spent

:55:47. > :55:48.on careers, predominantly with the careers enterprise company, with

:55:49. > :55:59.enterprise advisers going into schools. ?20 million for mentoring

:56:00. > :56:03.services in schools. The national careers service this year is getting

:56:04. > :56:11.something like over ?75 million. To advise on careers. That is real

:56:12. > :56:18.financial backing to two very important services. I'm listening to

:56:19. > :56:21.what ministers saying that I seem to remember because I was actually a

:56:22. > :56:28.member of the careers service National Association bought prior to

:56:29. > :56:33.the invention of connections. The national budget for careers at that

:56:34. > :56:39.time was something like ?130 million, more than 15 years ago. The

:56:40. > :56:48.sort of figures the Minister is talking about in the current climate

:56:49. > :56:55.is quite inadequate. Given the financial climate, 90 million to the

:56:56. > :56:59.spent predominantly with enterprise company, the 75 million going to the

:57:00. > :57:04.national careers service this year alone, I think that is a sizeable

:57:05. > :57:14.sum of money given the climate. We are developing a careers strategy

:57:15. > :57:21.which the... Obviously the election is now occurring but I hope the way

:57:22. > :57:30.we see careers is much more skills focus and much more work in schools,

:57:31. > :57:41.mentoring and work experience. I have said before that this is a bill

:57:42. > :57:47.which is part of our reforms to give people a ladder of opportunity to

:57:48. > :57:51.get the job and security and prosperity they need and ensure

:57:52. > :57:57.technical education is held in the regard it deserves. In the unlikely

:57:58. > :58:03.event of college insolvency it is the students who are protected. The

:58:04. > :58:08.measures in vital changes supporting young people to build essential

:58:09. > :58:12.skills our nation needs and provide the right support to enable young

:58:13. > :58:16.people to claim that ladder. Many members across the House and another

:58:17. > :58:28.place have spoken in support of that ambition and I would like to take

:58:29. > :58:31.the opportunity to thank them. The question is that this House

:58:32. > :58:33.disagrees with the Lords in their amendment number one. As many as are

:58:34. > :58:38.of the opinion, say, "aye". To the contrary, "no". Division, clear the

:58:39. > :59:42.lobby. As many as are of the opinion, say,

:59:43. > :11:36."aye". To the contrary, "no". Order, order. The aye to the right,

:11:37. > :11:47.298, the noes to the lab, 182. -- to the left.

:11:48. > :13:40.The Gordon Marsden, Henry Smith are the

:13:41. > :13:44.members of the committee, that Robert Halfon be committee, that

:13:45. > :13:50.three be the core of the committee and that the committee withdraw

:13:51. > :14:00.immediately. I think the ayes have it. Thank you. We now come to motion

:14:01. > :14:08.number five on section five of the European communities Amendment act

:14:09. > :14:17.1993. Minister to move. Thank you. The legal requirement to give the

:14:18. > :14:20.European Commission an update of the UK's economic position convergence

:14:21. > :14:24.programme means a welcome opportunity for a wider economic

:14:25. > :14:32.debate should be want one, and clearly since last year's... If

:14:33. > :14:39.members can leave the chamber bit more quietly, than we can hear the

:14:40. > :14:42.minister. Thank you. Thank you. Clearly since last year's

:14:43. > :14:46.convergence programme debate there has been a momentous change in the

:14:47. > :14:54.UK's relationship with European Union. The Article 50 process is

:14:55. > :14:59.underway and the UK is leading the European Union and there cannot be

:15:00. > :15:03.any turning back from that. -- leaving. In accordance with the

:15:04. > :15:06.outcome of the referendum we are leaving the European Union and we

:15:07. > :15:10.will make our own decisions and take control of the things that matter to

:15:11. > :15:15.us and seize every opportunity to build a stronger and fairer Britain.

:15:16. > :15:18.Given our decision to leave, some members may find it strange that we

:15:19. > :15:25.are debating the UK's convergence programme today. It is right that we

:15:26. > :15:30.do so, however. Because we continue to exercise our membership of the

:15:31. > :15:35.European Union and our exit and doing so is a legal requirement and

:15:36. > :15:40.one which we must take seriously. -- onto our exit. The content of the

:15:41. > :15:44.convergence programme is drawn from the government's assessment of the

:15:45. > :15:49.UK's economic and budgetary position and this assessment is based on the

:15:50. > :15:53.Spring Budget report and the OBR's most recent outlook and it is this

:15:54. > :15:57.content, not the convergence programme itself, that requires the

:15:58. > :16:02.approval of the House. I should also remind the House that although the

:16:03. > :16:07.UK participates in the growth pact that requires convergence programmes

:16:08. > :16:11.to be submitted, by virtue of our protocol to the treaty, opting out

:16:12. > :16:16.of the euro, we are only required to endeavour to avoid excessive

:16:17. > :16:17.deficits. UK cannot be subject to any sanctions as a result of our

:16:18. > :16:37.participation in. How much influence have the

:16:38. > :16:44.requirements had an successive UK governments to drive more austerity

:16:45. > :16:50.and cuts? In the seven years that I have been a Treasury minister, I

:16:51. > :16:54.have not noticed this convergence programme having an influence upon

:16:55. > :16:59.the decisions we have taken. We have taken decisions to reduce the

:17:00. > :17:03.deficit because we believed it was in the long-term interests of the

:17:04. > :17:10.United Kingdom rather than because of any requirements under EU

:17:11. > :17:15.treaties. Let me provide a brief overview of the information we will

:17:16. > :17:20.set out on the programme. Right Honourable members should note this

:17:21. > :17:25.does not represent new information but captures the government's

:17:26. > :17:32.assessment of the budgetary position. It is there to say that,

:17:33. > :17:39.in March 2017, we were in a better position than many predicted. Growth

:17:40. > :17:44.in the second half of 2016 was stronger than the oh BR had

:17:45. > :17:50.anticipated in the Autumn Statement. In fact, last year, the UK grew

:17:51. > :17:56.faster than other advanced economies. Following a period of

:17:57. > :18:05.robust economic growth, rising employment and falling deficit, we

:18:06. > :18:08.choose to safeguard that economic stability and that is particularly

:18:09. > :18:20.important as we prepare our country to leave the European Union. Our

:18:21. > :18:29.European partners continue to judge that tutor consumer demand and a

:18:30. > :18:33.rise putting public finances in good order will remain vital for the

:18:34. > :18:36.foreseeable future. All the more so given that the deficit remains too

:18:37. > :18:42.high and that our range of potential risks in the global economy. That is

:18:43. > :18:45.why we are getting ourselves in a position of readiness to handle

:18:46. > :18:51.difficulties of any kind which may come our way. Other fiscal rules to

:18:52. > :18:57.do so are ones which strike the right balance between reducing the

:18:58. > :19:02.deficit, maintaining flexibility and investing for the long term. Overall

:19:03. > :19:09.public sector net borrowing is predicted to fall from 3.8% last

:19:10. > :19:14.year to 2.6% this year. This means we forecast to meet our 3% stability

:19:15. > :19:21.target this year for the first time in almost a decade. Borrowing is

:19:22. > :19:29.forecast to be 2.9% in 2017-18 and to fall over the remainder of the

:19:30. > :19:41.years ahead to 0.9% in 2018-19 before reaching 0.7% in 2021-22, its

:19:42. > :19:49.lowest level in two decades. While the economic forecasts are

:19:50. > :19:54.unchanged, the oh BR has revised down its forecast of net borrowing.

:19:55. > :20:00.We will hold an increase of the national debt as a proportion to

:20:01. > :20:08.GDP. That is forecast to peak and then fall in the subsequent years.

:20:09. > :20:20.Is it not also important to remind the House the ?435 billion of debt

:20:21. > :20:29.is now owned by the state? My right honourable friend is correct in

:20:30. > :20:35.terms of where it is owed, but nonetheless, as a country, we do

:20:36. > :20:40.have to be wary of a level of debt that is marred by recent historic

:20:41. > :20:45.standards and it is right that we show determination to set out a plan

:20:46. > :20:54.as to how that debt to GDP ratio can be reduced to ensure that the UK is

:20:55. > :20:59.a more resilient place to absorb shocks to our economy and public

:21:00. > :21:07.finances that do from time to time occur. Beyond our fiscal rules to

:21:08. > :21:10.protect the public purse and prepare our economy, the budget also sets

:21:11. > :21:14.out a wide range of this thing is that the government will do to

:21:15. > :21:20.invest in our future. That includes giving our children the chance to go

:21:21. > :21:24.to a goodwill outstanding school, helping people across the country

:21:25. > :21:29.get the skills they need for high paid, high school jobs of the

:21:30. > :21:32.future, and investing in cutting edge technology and innovation so

:21:33. > :21:37.Britain continues to be at the forefront of the global technology

:21:38. > :21:43.revolution. Three things part of our efforts to address the country's

:21:44. > :21:47.productivity challenges. The budget also promised greater support for

:21:48. > :21:51.our social care system with additional funding so people get the

:21:52. > :21:55.care they deserve as they grow older and it works to strengthen our

:21:56. > :21:59.public services over the long-term in our determination to bring down

:22:00. > :22:06.the deficit and get the UK back to living within our means and funding

:22:07. > :22:10.our public services through the long-term. The spring budget

:22:11. > :22:13.therefore was one that made the most of the opportunities ahead by laying

:22:14. > :22:20.the foundations of a stronger, fairer and better Britain. Following

:22:21. > :22:26.the House's approval of the assessment that forms the basis of

:22:27. > :22:30.the convergence programme, the government will submit it to the

:22:31. > :22:34.Council of the European Union, European Commission, with

:22:35. > :22:44.recommendations expected from the commission in May. The submission by

:22:45. > :22:49.non-euro member states also provides a useful framework for coordinating

:22:50. > :22:53.fiscal policies will stop a degree of fiscal policy coordination can be

:22:54. > :22:59.beneficial in ensuring stable global economy which is in the UK's

:23:00. > :23:01.national interest. The UK has or is taken part in international

:23:02. > :23:09.mechanisms for policy coordination is. Although we are leaving the EU,

:23:10. > :23:13.we will continue to have a deep interest in the economic stability

:23:14. > :23:19.and prosperity of our European friends and neighbours so we will

:23:20. > :23:24.continue to play our part in this process and in other international

:23:25. > :23:30.coordination processes once we have left the EU. The government is

:23:31. > :23:36.committed to ensuring that we act in full accordance with section five,

:23:37. > :23:40.and that this House approves the economic and budgetary assessments

:23:41. > :23:49.that forms the basis of the convergence programme. The question

:23:50. > :23:54.is as on the order paper. We find ourselves in a strange position,

:23:55. > :23:58.debating a motion that seeks to prove the government's convergence

:23:59. > :24:03.programme with the EU at the start of an election campaign in the

:24:04. > :24:06.context of leaving the EU. An unusual set of circumstances, to say

:24:07. > :24:16.the least. Some see it as almost theological! There will no longer be

:24:17. > :24:21.a requirement for convergence and what the Conservatives have no idea

:24:22. > :24:29.as to how our economy will work post Brexit, it is a simple if flawed in

:24:30. > :24:34.dangerous plan regardless of the position that people were in the

:24:35. > :24:37.referendum. A complete lack of vision from this government means no

:24:38. > :24:43.one can be confident in what our economy will look like in just two

:24:44. > :24:48.years' time. Labour accepts the referendum result, and that is why

:24:49. > :24:53.we did not frustrate the triggering of article 15 negotiations, but what

:24:54. > :24:56.we will never support as the chaos of a Conservative plan for Brexit

:24:57. > :25:06.that will see our economy put in danger. That is not being a

:25:07. > :25:12.saboteur, it is doing the job we were sent here to do. Wealth

:25:13. > :25:17.concentrated in the hands of the tiny super-rich elite is not

:25:18. > :25:25.particularly good. That is not what people voted for. We have heard much

:25:26. > :25:30.in the debate in the past few months about taking back control, time

:25:31. > :25:39.after time, we were told we would take back control. That should not

:25:40. > :25:42.be put into the hands of a group of plutocrats were leaving most people

:25:43. > :25:47.across the country worse yet after year. When we do take back control,

:25:48. > :25:52.that has got to be control shared by everybody, not just a few. Our

:25:53. > :26:02.Labour government will deliver a final deal that reflects Labour's

:26:03. > :26:05.values, defending people's rights and protections and preventing a

:26:06. > :26:10.race to the bottom because there is a fear that there will be a race to

:26:11. > :26:16.the bottom. A better future for the whole country under a Labour

:26:17. > :26:26.government or a bargain basement tax haven under the Conservatives. In

:26:27. > :26:31.2016, UK exports of goods and services totalled ?548 billion to

:26:32. > :26:44.the EU and imports totalled 558 billion. Despite the government's

:26:45. > :26:48.laid-back approach to trade with EU, it is heartbreaking to put much of

:26:49. > :26:59.those exports and new imports at risk. We have become the world's

:27:00. > :27:05.worst performing currency in October last year. Many economists now

:27:06. > :27:10.suspect the pound to depreciate even further as negotiations deadlock and

:27:11. > :27:15.flounder. When coming to office, the Conservatives committed to balancing

:27:16. > :27:20.the books by 2015, the book that problem is, a promise broken. They

:27:21. > :27:27.said it would then be put back to 19, 20, that was not delivered on.

:27:28. > :27:30.Here we are, days away without the government making as much progress

:27:31. > :27:35.as they promised they would in relation to the deficit and the

:27:36. > :27:39.Chancellor regularly saying, it is a rolling target. You cannot have a

:27:40. > :27:50.rolling target. You either have a target will you do not. Under this

:27:51. > :27:55.government, debt as a percentage GDP has continued to rise. How can that

:27:56. > :28:04.be a sign of the how the economy? GDP growth has not once passed its

:28:05. > :28:12.precrisis trend rate of 2.3%. In fact, growth has been revised down

:28:13. > :28:18.and now, in 2019-20, hardly the sign of a strong economy. In seven years,

:28:19. > :28:21.the Conservatives have borrowed ?750 million, and I will remind people

:28:22. > :28:28.that is more than all the governments combined. Since 2010,

:28:29. > :28:35.ten out of 24 government is budgeted to have seen an increase in

:28:36. > :28:40.borrowing and the government's borrowing summed up in two words,

:28:41. > :28:46.missed targets. Make no mistake, they are a government of borrowing.

:28:47. > :28:52.Public finances each year have huge gaping holes. This year we saw the

:28:53. > :28:56.Chancellor's attempt to hit self-employed workers with national

:28:57. > :29:02.insurance contributions, and we understand the Conservative's U-turn

:29:03. > :29:07.left a ?200 million black hole. How can we rely on the Conservatives

:29:08. > :29:12.when we know the sums do not add up? This feeds into the wider problem

:29:13. > :29:18.with public finances. Children are sitting in crumbling schools. Up and

:29:19. > :29:23.down the country, people waiting even longer to be seen by

:29:24. > :29:28.professionals in NHS. It is undergoing the worst crisis in

:29:29. > :29:32.history. So why do we have this sorry state of affairs? Because this

:29:33. > :29:39.Conservatives have sacrificed services everyone have used just to

:29:40. > :29:43.make tax cuts for corporations and the super-rich. The government has

:29:44. > :29:47.provided over the slowest recovery since the 1920s with economic growth

:29:48. > :29:52.and average earnings downgraded yet again and, despite falling

:29:53. > :30:02.unemployment, workers are suffering the worst pay in 70 years. And of

:30:03. > :30:05.course, the government has done very little to tackle the scandal of

:30:06. > :30:10.chronic low pay and insecure employment, and that is reflective

:30:11. > :30:15.of an economy not working the way the government claims it is. The

:30:16. > :30:24.government has promised the national living wage will go up, but cost of

:30:25. > :30:30.living goes up. It makes no mention of the continued economic balanced

:30:31. > :30:35.between devolved nations and the regions. We simply cannot continue

:30:36. > :30:39.to have such an unbalanced and unequal economy. It goes back to the

:30:40. > :30:46.point I made in the start in terms of this question of that disparity

:30:47. > :30:48.in regional economic growth. It is there in my own region and many

:30:49. > :30:56.other regions. How much extra tax should the

:30:57. > :31:01.government imposed next year to deal with the Budget deficit he is

:31:02. > :31:06.worried about? We will have that debate in the general election

:31:07. > :31:11.process. This government has pledged to take back control from Brussels

:31:12. > :31:15.but what about controls for those millions of people living outside

:31:16. > :31:18.the M25? How can this government square the desire for less

:31:19. > :31:24.interference from Brussels but at the same time, for example, the

:31:25. > :31:27.Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government doesn't bat an

:31:28. > :31:35.eyelid when banning local councils all over the country from charging

:31:36. > :31:39.?1 for fun runs in local parks. Is it really the job of the secretary

:31:40. > :31:44.of state to micromanage park budgets? Have we come to that, where

:31:45. > :31:50.the Secretary of State can say you can't charge ?1 or 50p. It is

:31:51. > :31:56.ludicrous. That is why we have to take control, so that when control

:31:57. > :32:00.comes back it has to be pushed down. It is bizarre that the secretary of

:32:01. > :32:07.state has taken that position when he and his predecessors have cut

:32:08. > :32:13.local governments abroad by 50% in some areas. Huge budget cuts and

:32:14. > :32:20.interference with piddling amounts of money like ?1 for park runs. It

:32:21. > :32:25.is pretty pathetic. My honourable friend is making a powerful set of

:32:26. > :32:29.points. On local government finance, it is all very well for the

:32:30. > :32:33.government to withdraw revenue support but at the same time not

:32:34. > :32:39.doing anything about the other side of the account. The other side is

:32:40. > :32:43.the council tax banding system. They are not doing anything to rebalance

:32:44. > :32:48.the banding system which makes up the local government revenue apart

:32:49. > :32:55.from the support grant. If you don't do that, it is grossly unfair. The

:32:56. > :32:58.revenue support grant was brought in because band D medium didn't exist

:32:59. > :33:03.in all parts of the country, certainly not in the north-east. It

:33:04. > :33:10.is required for its inception in the early 1990s. My honourable friend

:33:11. > :33:14.makes a fair point. This government has abandoned local government

:33:15. > :33:19.unless you happen to be Surrey County Council. We cannot have a

:33:20. > :33:23.fair and prosperous economy until all the regions and cities have

:33:24. > :33:29.adequate access to funding and investment in infrastructure. And

:33:30. > :33:36.until the power to implement financial decisions are on a local

:33:37. > :33:44.level. The referendum result was not just a result against one

:33:45. > :33:47.unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels but also an accountability

:33:48. > :33:54.at local levels. For many people, the government is alien and has no

:33:55. > :34:05.relevance to their day-to-day lives. They see it as a bubble and as we

:34:06. > :34:10.have seen, often it is a bubble. Westminster and Whitehall making

:34:11. > :34:12.these decisions and little consideration to the ramifications

:34:13. > :34:19.and disastrous effects on the policies have an ordinary people.

:34:20. > :34:23.Post Brexit Britain must look at devolving powers to local

:34:24. > :34:30.authorities across the country. We can no longer have a unitary state

:34:31. > :34:41.run by diktat from London. In the assemblies and regional

:34:42. > :34:50.... You have got to give the power and the responsibility to go with

:34:51. > :34:58.them and the government has been dragging its feet in regard to that.

:34:59. > :35:03.Our economy under seven years of Tory mismanagement has seen stagnant

:35:04. > :35:05.wages, slow growth, low productivity. The minister didn't

:35:06. > :35:14.mention productivity once in his speech. OK, maybe once. Excessive

:35:15. > :35:19.borrowing, rising debt and failed promises. The Chancellor has resided

:35:20. > :35:25.over an economy that has given tax giveaways to the richest at the

:35:26. > :35:29.expects on those on low and middle incomes. They fail to balance books

:35:30. > :35:36.and if re-elected the Conservatives would cut tax in a desperate bid to

:35:37. > :35:41.attract overseas investment to transform our economy into a low pay

:35:42. > :35:45.and low tax economy. It doesn't account for is catastrophic record

:35:46. > :35:49.and huge black holes in public spending and makes no assessment of

:35:50. > :35:53.what the post Brexit economy will look like and nor does it at

:35:54. > :36:02.knowledge the economic difficulties ahead and I would urge the house to

:36:03. > :36:07.rejected. The pleasure for this my final speech in the Commons before

:36:08. > :36:12.the general elections, the electors of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath will

:36:13. > :36:17.determine whether I return to make a speech in the future. I was

:36:18. > :36:21.intrigued by the opening of the Honma number for Bootle when he

:36:22. > :36:27.pointed out it was a strange debate to have when we are facing being

:36:28. > :36:32.dragged out of the European Union and we are discussing convergence. I

:36:33. > :36:37.took a leaf out of the honourable member's leader, since I knew it

:36:38. > :36:41.would be a tremendously popular debate, you can just look around at

:36:42. > :36:45.the filled benches to see how popular, I thought I would tweet

:36:46. > :36:50.that I would be speaking on this important topic. My hope was that I

:36:51. > :36:56.would get the equivalent of Merry from Rochdale letting me know the

:36:57. > :37:01.key points to raise. Only one person replied with a suggestion of what I

:37:02. > :37:09.should include in my speech. Could you say hello to my auntie Sadie in

:37:10. > :37:14.Harlem. I couldn't possibly do that in a speech of such importance but

:37:15. > :37:19.it clarifies that many of the things that we debate are of a very

:37:20. > :37:21.technical nature and difficult for the public to engage in.

:37:22. > :37:27.Nevertheless, they are very important. The minister talked in

:37:28. > :37:34.his early remarks about the ODI and the forecast made. Showing great

:37:35. > :37:43.precedents, or lack of it on my part, yesterday, Scott started to

:37:44. > :37:48.work for me for the first time, he started his job on the day that the

:37:49. > :37:54.general election was declared. I asked him to contact the library and

:37:55. > :38:03.find out how many independent valuations had ever been done of the

:38:04. > :38:06.Treasury all Treasury OBR model of the economy. Eventually, the library

:38:07. > :38:11.got back to me and said they could find no independent evaluations of

:38:12. > :38:17.the OBR or treasure late-model of the economy had ever been

:38:18. > :38:23.undertaken. This is not surprisingly new see some of the results of this

:38:24. > :38:27.model. Indeed, I thought, in following up I ask him to look at

:38:28. > :38:32.how the model was described by the OBR. On which come you can find on

:38:33. > :38:36.their website the wonderful statement that much of this model is

:38:37. > :38:43.based on not hard fact but based on the judgment of those using it.

:38:44. > :38:46.Different people who are using it, the result might be incredibly

:38:47. > :38:52.different from using the same model. So, I think that there will come a

:38:53. > :38:59.time in the future when governments of whatever shade are going to have

:39:00. > :39:03.to consider the way in which we understand and model the economy and

:39:04. > :39:07.how far we can ever rely on forecasts of the type we have been

:39:08. > :39:14.receiving for a good number of years. I thought since this could

:39:15. > :39:18.obviously be a fairly wide raging debate, thinking about the future, I

:39:19. > :39:21.thought there would be one or two remarks I could make about issues

:39:22. > :39:29.that will still need to be addressed when we exit the European Union. The

:39:30. > :39:33.exit in itself won't contribute anything, it will require the will

:39:34. > :39:38.of government to be able to do something. But the minister

:39:39. > :39:45.mentioned, quite rightly, the importance of business investment.

:39:46. > :39:49.One of the debates we held in this house, I think it was last year, the

:39:50. > :39:55.honourable member from Bootle icing to recall took part in it, a debate

:39:56. > :40:01.on quantitative easing. I think that was slightly less popular. And this

:40:02. > :40:07.debate. With the numbers that took part in it. Nonetheless, it was

:40:08. > :40:12.interesting at that time that so many of those who decided to speak

:40:13. > :40:23.talked about the problem, the Kiwi had created by investment. -- that Q

:40:24. > :40:27.E had created by investment. The consequence of which would be to

:40:28. > :40:31.increase confidence in business and lead to a significant increase in

:40:32. > :40:38.investment. We know that has not happened despite well over 600

:40:39. > :40:44.billion of Q E being introduced. It would be interesting to know how the

:40:45. > :40:50.future government will tackle the rewinding of Q E. There has also

:40:51. > :40:55.been in recent days some very intemperate remarks made by senior

:40:56. > :41:01.bankers about the business sector. I would like to point to just two days

:41:02. > :41:13.ago, three days ago, in the express, when a senior banker quoted from RBS

:41:14. > :41:19.talk of S M Es pursuing getting some reconciliation to the problems they

:41:20. > :41:25.have had through DRG and the like. They were called by the senior

:41:26. > :41:31.executive of RBS as a bunch of chances. Can you imagine any other

:41:32. > :41:35.industry who would talk about their customers as being a bunch of

:41:36. > :41:39.chancers. Apparently they were chancers because they might have the

:41:40. > :41:45.other City to go to the courts and seek redress. What you know when you

:41:46. > :41:50.look at RBS accounts? You will see that they have tripled the amount of

:41:51. > :41:56.money RBS has set aside for the hiring in of lawyers to defend

:41:57. > :42:01.cases. I see the right honourable gentleman nodding. I believe it is

:42:02. > :42:06.in the order of close to ?1 billion of what they expect they are going

:42:07. > :42:10.to have to defend. Surely this says something about banking culture in

:42:11. > :42:15.our society that will still need to be addressed in the future. Finally,

:42:16. > :42:25.one of the things that I have been doing in this house is pursuing the

:42:26. > :42:27.issue of Scottish limited partnerships and other firms of

:42:28. > :42:31.limited partnerships that have been particularly since 2008 subjected to

:42:32. > :42:35.use by International criminals, including and perhaps in particular

:42:36. > :42:43.from Eastern Europe, the Ukraine, Russia and the like, it amounts now

:42:44. > :42:50.too many billions of pounds that the urgent question that we faced about

:42:51. > :42:54.ten days, I think, before recess on the big latest money laundering

:42:55. > :42:58.scandal when I questioned the minister at the time I pointed out

:42:59. > :43:05.that at their heart lie these limited partnerships. Since 2008,

:43:06. > :43:13.there have been 22,000 Scottish limited partnerships created that

:43:14. > :43:19.have completely been opaque. We have no idea who is owning them. Many of

:43:20. > :43:24.them seek to operate in tax havens and many seek to launder significant

:43:25. > :43:35.amounts of criminal assets. I think this is an issue. Does he and his

:43:36. > :43:43.party think that the EU is right to say that a state debts should not be

:43:44. > :43:50.above 60% of GDP? I think it is reasonable for the EU to seek

:43:51. > :43:55.reasonable control of debt. Since the Scottish Parliament was created

:43:56. > :43:58.you could at least say today that the Scottish Government has

:43:59. > :44:04.absolutely no debt, something that this government cannot claim to be

:44:05. > :44:10.able to save. When you look towards the future, regardless of whether we

:44:11. > :44:16.were going to be in or out of the EU, this country, the UK, and all

:44:17. > :44:21.its member nations, still face major economic challenges that require

:44:22. > :44:26.will and intelligence to address. That surely is the message that we

:44:27. > :44:35.should all be taking to our constituents as we face the future.

:44:36. > :44:40.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As I stated in my opening remarks, as

:44:41. > :44:52.much as 30 minutes ago, following this debate, and with Parliamentary

:44:53. > :44:56.approval, we will look forward to the assessment of our economic and

:44:57. > :45:00.budgetary position, based on evidence that has been presented to

:45:01. > :45:03.Parliament. Presenting this submission through the convergence

:45:04. > :45:12.programme is a legal requirement under the EU. A couple of points

:45:13. > :45:18.made by the honourable member for Bootle. He makes the case for

:45:19. > :45:25.greater devolution. Can I remind him that it is this government that has

:45:26. > :45:31.put in place the new metro mayors. No doubt he's spending much of his

:45:32. > :45:39.weekends and constituency Friday's campaigning for the Labour

:45:40. > :45:44.candidates for mayor of the Liverpool city region and we've

:45:45. > :45:50.obviously got elections in Manchester and the West Midlands as

:45:51. > :45:53.well. This is not something that was created by the previous Labour

:45:54. > :45:57.government, this is something that was created by this government,

:45:58. > :46:01.recognising the need for decisions to be made at local levels and real

:46:02. > :46:12.power is being devolved at that level.

:46:13. > :46:22.He also made the accusation that I have not touched on, the issue of

:46:23. > :46:27.productivity. He made comments about the Chancellor not discussing the

:46:28. > :46:31.issues of productivity whereas the Chancellor makes very regular

:46:32. > :46:36.comments in respect of the need to improve our productivity. I drew

:46:37. > :46:44.attention to the measures we were taking on schools, skills and

:46:45. > :46:49.technology and innovation, which are at the heart of our efforts to

:46:50. > :46:54.address the country's long-standing productivity challenges. It is very

:46:55. > :47:00.difficult to see how the policies of the Labour Party, that will drive

:47:01. > :47:03.away briskness investment and discourage enterprise and

:47:04. > :47:08.innovation, would do anything other than weaken our productivity. --

:47:09. > :47:11.business. If he wishes to fight the next few weeks on the subject of

:47:12. > :47:19.productivity, I for one would welcome that. In the Budget we set

:47:20. > :47:24.out earlier this year, we continue to prepare this country for

:47:25. > :47:28.long-term prosperity. First and foremost by putting our economic

:47:29. > :47:32.stability first, by continuing to improve the state of our public

:47:33. > :47:37.finances, but we also set up meaningful investment in our future

:47:38. > :47:40.productivity and current public services. This is a plan therefore

:47:41. > :47:46.that strikes the right balance between reducing our deficit,

:47:47. > :47:52.preserving fiscal stability and investing in Britain's future. Those

:47:53. > :47:58.of the foundations of the strong and stable platform for the upcoming

:47:59. > :48:02.Brexit negotiations. This is the full the basis for the convergence

:48:03. > :48:09.programme we presented the European Union, and on that basis, I am

:48:10. > :48:13.pleased to to the House, which I beg to move. The question is as on the

:48:14. > :48:14.order paper. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary,

:48:15. > :49:46."no". Division, clear the lobby. As many as are of the opinion, say

:49:47. > :49:49."aye". To the contrary, "no". Tellers for the ayes, tellers for

:49:50. > :02:37.the noes, thank you. Order, order! The ayes to the right

:02:38. > :02:51.to hunt and 38. The noes to the left, 191. The ayes have it!

:02:52. > :03:04.Armlock. Point of order, Alison Pulis. Madam Deputy Speaker, you may

:03:05. > :03:08.remember that I had tried to debate the government rape clause in this

:03:09. > :03:12.house. The last time I raised this, the usual channels came back to me

:03:13. > :03:19.that there would be time made in a committee for the clause to be

:03:20. > :03:26.debated. The list has appeared in the whips office and as far as I

:03:27. > :03:32.know there will not be time with the proposed election there will not be

:03:33. > :03:39.time for the rape clause to be debated in this house. In Scotland,

:03:40. > :03:43.the NHS and women's organisation are refusing to co-operate with the

:03:44. > :03:47.guidance because they did believe it is not sound. Is there any recourse

:03:48. > :03:53.to raise this with the government so that these very important issues do

:03:54. > :03:57.get debated. The honourable lady has successfully done so herself as she

:03:58. > :04:00.sees on the Treasury benches the leader of the house will take up the

:04:01. > :04:07.matter with the honourable lady. I thank her for the point of order and

:04:08. > :04:17.the notice of it. I beg to move that this house do now adjourned. Jim

:04:18. > :04:21.Shannon. It is always a privilege to speak in this house. On this

:04:22. > :04:25.occasion, it is something I have wanted to do for some time on the

:04:26. > :04:34.case of the watch Raw UDR men murdered. They had worked together

:04:35. > :04:37.for some time. The crack was great, as they travelled on a beautiful

:04:38. > :04:43.morning, just like any number of others on a day like today, leaving

:04:44. > :04:46.behind wives and children and loved ones, they wanted to do their job

:04:47. > :04:52.and earn their pay like anyone of us would do. There the similarity ends

:04:53. > :04:56.because the atrocity on false. I'm sure the members of the house will

:04:57. > :05:03.give some adherence to the importance of this issue. I declare

:05:04. > :05:08.an interest as a member of the also the defence Regiment. I served it

:05:09. > :05:10.for three years as did other gallant members of this house and in other

:05:11. > :05:15.regiments and we are very pleased that they have made an effort to

:05:16. > :05:21.come to the chamber. On the morning of the 9th of April 1990, John

:05:22. > :05:26.Birch, Michael Bradley, Michael Adams and the private Stephen Smart,

:05:27. > :05:33.all members of the UDR were murdered with an attack on their mobile

:05:34. > :05:42.patrol in Downpatrick. All were travelling as a part of a two Land

:05:43. > :05:53.Rover patrol where a 1000 lb bomb, imagine the magnitude of that,

:05:54. > :05:57.beneath the road was dead on it and it was detonated and they were

:05:58. > :06:02.hurled 30 yards into a field, killed near instantly and creating a

:06:03. > :06:08.creator 40 feet wide and 15 feet deep. Those are the facts of what

:06:09. > :06:15.happened that fateful morning. Their families were torn apart, never to

:06:16. > :06:20.be the same. The men in service of Queen and country. Much like the

:06:21. > :06:27.officer on duty last month in this place. No link to anything other

:06:28. > :06:33.than the desire to wear the uniform and serve their community. Ireland

:06:34. > :06:38.are three of these men very well. John Bradley, married with a son and

:06:39. > :06:45.daughter. He had recently been promoted. He served with the Royal

:06:46. > :06:55.Highland Fusiliers that came from Renfrewshire. Another of the men

:06:56. > :07:03.came from where I was raised. I can remember him being born. His wife

:07:04. > :07:09.was expecting again. Private Stephen Smart coming from the main town of

:07:10. > :07:21.my constituency. His mother is dead but his father is still living. I

:07:22. > :07:26.thank the honourable member for Strangford for giving way and

:07:27. > :07:31.bringing this adjournment Ford. I had the honour of serving in the

:07:32. > :07:33.third County Down battalion, the same battalion as these brave

:07:34. > :07:40.soldiers. Will the honourable member agree with me that tragic as their

:07:41. > :07:48.deaths are, their sacrifice and the sacrifice of that regiment was

:07:49. > :07:51.immense. Their legacy, is the fact that our children and grandchildren

:07:52. > :07:54.can walk the streets of Northern Ireland not having to look over

:07:55. > :08:00.their shoulder because of the bravery of the men and women who

:08:01. > :08:02.served in the Ulster Defence Regiment, the Royal Ulster

:08:03. > :08:05.Constabulary and the other fine regiments that came to Northern

:08:06. > :08:11.Ireland, men and women who put their lives on the line. I thank my right

:08:12. > :08:17.honourable friend for the intervention. He's absolutely right.

:08:18. > :08:24.Those who served in uniform in that Regiment and others deserve every

:08:25. > :08:28.recognition for what they have done. Michael Adams, 23, also from Newton

:08:29. > :08:35.Ards who served for seven months with the Regiment. I served with him

:08:36. > :08:46.in the order I served in 11 a half years with the TA. I remember doing

:08:47. > :08:53.guard duty with him. I'm not sure if we had done anything wrong. We had

:08:54. > :08:59.the radio and we were listening to tunes, one of them was Stand By Me a

:09:00. > :09:06.1960s song, we are doing the very same thing with them today. These

:09:07. > :09:11.are men I knew well and faces I recall right now and I honour and

:09:12. > :09:16.respect today. I saw one of their mothers the week before last and her

:09:17. > :09:23.grief is still evident. These are men who deserve justice who were

:09:24. > :09:27.brutally murdered. Could I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way

:09:28. > :09:33.and say that I well remember that morning of the 9th of April 19 90.

:09:34. > :09:40.At that stage it was 7:30am and I had worked for my predecessor at

:09:41. > :09:46.that stage, we got a phone call to the office from the BBC to say what

:09:47. > :09:53.had happened. Our shark and our abortion and our opposition -- our

:09:54. > :10:00.shock and our roof portion and our position was made quite clear. Is he

:10:01. > :10:07.aware of it to an a half weeks later on a Sunday afternoon that there was

:10:08. > :10:11.a piece demonstration in Downpatrick from the car park in lower market

:10:12. > :10:17.Street out to the scene of that terrible atrocity? That was done to

:10:18. > :10:28.clearly illustrate that this was not done in our name and our total

:10:29. > :10:38.opposition and false to all forms of violence -- and revulsion to all

:10:39. > :10:41.forms of violence and terror. It also indicates the revulsion in the

:10:42. > :10:48.whole of the community in Downpatrick in relation to this. He

:10:49. > :10:57.mentioned the mother of one of the victims and mentioned children and

:10:58. > :11:00.sometimes we're inclined to forget about the families who were left

:11:01. > :11:04.after all of those years after this has happened and I'm sure you will

:11:05. > :11:09.agree that we must keep them to the fore. I thank my honourable friend

:11:10. > :11:15.and colleague for that intervention and he is right. This debate is an

:11:16. > :11:22.opportunity to recall the bravery of those young men and also to ask the

:11:23. > :11:28.Minister to respond and to ask for some action in relation to this. We

:11:29. > :11:41.will do that at the end. Discussing the actions of what is the 16 man

:11:42. > :11:46.and women team who helped to plan this. We all recall the pain and

:11:47. > :11:50.suffering of the loss of a loved one of friends and colleagues and we

:11:51. > :11:56.still carry that pain today. Plenty of other people in this chamber also

:11:57. > :11:59.carry pain. I think of the gallant friend across the way and minister

:12:00. > :12:05.who have served in uniform in Northern Ireland. I thank my

:12:06. > :12:15.honourable friend, gallant friend for giving way. The victims who are

:12:16. > :12:17.left behind, the mums, dads, the brothers, sisters, children's,

:12:18. > :12:22.sweethearts, their lives are actually defined by these events

:12:23. > :12:27.because their lives are defined by what happened after I lost my loved

:12:28. > :12:32.one. It's only in the definition of their victimhood that we will

:12:33. > :12:37.actually be able to heal in some way and cure that pain when justice is

:12:38. > :12:41.achieved for those people. Hopefully, through his debate we can

:12:42. > :12:47.actually open up a way of finding justice and Ealing for the people

:12:48. > :12:52.left behind. I thank my honourable friend and colleague for his

:12:53. > :12:56.thoughtful intervention and those very kind words. Like too many

:12:57. > :13:01.people in the province I have been touched by the actions of men like

:13:02. > :13:06.the leader of the provisional IRA responsible for the murder of the

:13:07. > :13:14.four UDR men. That vile, despicable excuse for a human being was an

:13:15. > :13:18.named Colin Marks. It's no coincidence that when he was shot,

:13:19. > :13:26.the activity of the IRA in the South immediately. A person who was

:13:27. > :13:34.pulling the strings and dictating and taking part in action that was

:13:35. > :13:38.completely unacceptable. I thank the honourable member for giving way

:13:39. > :13:42.again. He comes to an important point that I think needs to be

:13:43. > :13:48.emphasised. We have come to a sorry place when it is the men and women

:13:49. > :13:53.who put on uniforms and who defend and protect the community and in the

:13:54. > :14:00.case of Colin Marks, who shot someone who was a commander in the

:14:01. > :14:04.IRA and saved countless lives as a result, they are the people waiting

:14:05. > :14:09.on the knock at the door. They are wondering if someone is going to

:14:10. > :14:12.come looking for them to bring them, call them before a court to make

:14:13. > :14:16.them answer for what they did which was within the law and was about

:14:17. > :14:20.protecting and defending the community and we want to see the

:14:21. > :14:26.government do more to protect the integrity of the men and women who

:14:27. > :14:33.served in Northern Ireland in this operation and other theatres of

:14:34. > :14:39.conflict. They deserve that support. That's part of what about today.

:14:40. > :14:44.This debate is also about seeking justice and to have justice for

:14:45. > :14:49.those who served in uniform and the importance of that. He headed up the

:14:50. > :14:54.gang, lying in wait with his detonator in a forest just across

:14:55. > :15:06.from Bally Dougan. Whenever he pushed the button and killed for and

:15:07. > :15:11.-- for brave and courageous young man, went away, disposed of his blue

:15:12. > :15:16.boiler suit, was picked up by somebody else, there were 16 people

:15:17. > :15:21.involved. Somebody told the people that the Land Rover patrol was on

:15:22. > :15:31.its way. Another person confirmed that. A person left a 1000 lb arm.

:15:32. > :15:35.Multiply a bag of sugar by a thousand times and you have the

:15:36. > :15:39.magnitude of that bomb. How many people did it take to put that

:15:40. > :15:49.bombing that culvert. They were seen doing it. Just why was that

:15:50. > :15:54.evidence, visual evidence not acted upon in the way it should have been?

:15:55. > :15:59.To warn that UDR patrol and other patrols in the area of what it was

:16:00. > :16:06.about. There was a person when he was picked up at the shopping centre

:16:07. > :16:12.and taken to a safe house where he was showered and changed his clothes

:16:13. > :16:15.which were destroyed and moved to another house. 16 people were

:16:16. > :16:22.involved in the murder of those UDR men. Colin Marks pushed the button

:16:23. > :16:27.and blew the men to smithereens. He was also the IRA commander who was

:16:28. > :16:39.involved on in the murder of another man. A coal merchant selling coal.

:16:40. > :16:44.As he did his last delivery he was attacked by two men and was shot

:16:45. > :16:50.dead. This man has his hands red with blood. He is, let's be honest,

:16:51. > :16:59.he wasn't a freedom fighter, he was a lowlife efficient psychopath with

:17:00. > :17:02.no human decency, rotten to the core, contemptible, detestable,

:17:03. > :17:11.loathsome. No good whatsoever. A man who should never have been born.

:17:12. > :17:20.The member is defining a person in a very particular way. The see also

:17:21. > :17:27.salute the gallantry of the people who stood up to that beast, and

:17:28. > :17:36.recognise we won? Because the war they claim to be fighting for, today

:17:37. > :17:41.we are administering British rule in Northern Ireland. There is no all

:17:42. > :17:48.Irish Republic. We're not going anywhere else. The death has sealed

:17:49. > :17:57.the fact that it has been a victorious and gallant death. There

:17:58. > :18:06.are not another objective is to describe this loathsome person. All

:18:07. > :18:13.of the others involved in this as well. Nine people were arrested. I

:18:14. > :18:19.have read the historical report into this. Nine people were arrested, one

:18:20. > :18:25.was charged. But the person who killed the men, he was free, at

:18:26. > :18:31.least he was until one fateful day for him. As he was sitting up a bomb

:18:32. > :18:37.to attack and kill more people in Downpatrick, he was caught in the

:18:38. > :18:42.act, and was shot in the act of trying to kill other men and police

:18:43. > :18:47.officers. So justice was done in that he came to the end of his

:18:48. > :19:05.reign. It is a pity it did not happen earlier. This is the legacy

:19:06. > :19:09.of death, the legacy left by the as one of honour, sacrifice, dignity

:19:10. > :19:24.strength and great love for not only the families but the country and its

:19:25. > :19:32.people. We stand to reiterate this. Colin Marx and the rest of us serve

:19:33. > :19:44.nothing other than the label of what they were, odious, filthy scum. May

:19:45. > :19:47.I speak for some of us that were in Northern Ireland in the army, the

:19:48. > :19:55.regular army, and I include the Minister? We, those of us that

:19:56. > :20:05.served in the regular army, had incredible respect, affection. We

:20:06. > :20:15.salute the gallantry of every single member of the Royal Ulster

:20:16. > :20:21.Constabulary, the Ulster Defence Regiment and anyone that served the

:20:22. > :20:32.Crown in Northern Ireland who was a target of terrorism. We salute them,

:20:33. > :20:39.particularly because you live that, worked with your family around you.

:20:40. > :20:45.Those people had the huge threat of doing their duty, as the minister

:20:46. > :20:54.and I did not with our family around us, and to actually do that, we had

:20:55. > :21:00.huge respect for those that did that. And in that way, I also

:21:01. > :21:05.includes politicians of Northern Ireland who also were on the huge

:21:06. > :21:10.threat. And I am sorry if my intervention was long but I wanted

:21:11. > :21:15.to make that point from those of us were not normally living in Northern

:21:16. > :21:21.Ireland. I thank the honourable and gallant member for his contribution.

:21:22. > :21:24.I always look forward to his contribution to this House because

:21:25. > :21:29.they are wise words of a person who has served and done much for us in

:21:30. > :21:34.this chamber for those further afield. His knowledge and command of

:21:35. > :21:44.it. I know why the soldiers followed him, and we appreciate and thank him

:21:45. > :21:50.for that. The soldiers were traumatised by repeated destruction

:21:51. > :21:56.of the memorial. There were not sufficient with killing the four

:21:57. > :22:03.brave men, those evil people, they took a sledgehammer down and slashed

:22:04. > :22:09.the memorial at Bally Dougan. I was able as a counsellor to see the

:22:10. > :22:15.direction of the memorial for those four young men, three of them came

:22:16. > :22:22.from the area, and Lance Corporal Barry came from just outside the

:22:23. > :22:30.area. The memorial was desecrated and treated with no respect or

:22:31. > :22:35.common decency. Yet again, I thank the honourable member for giving

:22:36. > :22:39.way, but he has come to an important point. We hear a lot from those who

:22:40. > :22:46.are elected to this House but do not take their seats about respect. That

:22:47. > :22:51.word, respect. We would like to see a bit more respect given by Sinn

:22:52. > :22:56.Fein to the men and women who serve our country, and we would like to

:22:57. > :23:00.see the Armed Forces covenant fully implemented in Northern Ireland to

:23:01. > :23:05.ensure the families and veterans who served this country and sacrificed

:23:06. > :23:09.so much I given the support they deserve. So let's see Sinn Fein step

:23:10. > :23:16.up to the mark and show respect for a change. I thank the honourable

:23:17. > :23:22.gentleman for that. Respect is something that is urgent and is very

:23:23. > :23:29.much lacking from the side of Sinn Fein. In relation to what we are

:23:30. > :23:35.hoping to achieve. I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way

:23:36. > :23:45.again and I say this ever so gently, would he agree with me that there is

:23:46. > :23:53.a need now to have a resolution to the political talks process? One of

:23:54. > :23:57.those issues are to do with legacy. We come from perhaps different

:23:58. > :24:03.perspectives, but we all understand that many people lost their lives in

:24:04. > :24:07.very difficult tragic circumstances. Would he agree with me then now

:24:08. > :24:12.needs to be a resolution of this outstanding issues to allow this

:24:13. > :24:17.political institutions to be up and running in Northern Ireland, to

:24:18. > :24:22.provide the people than seeing a stripping of public services? I

:24:23. > :24:27.thank her for her intervention and I agree with that. It is important. We

:24:28. > :24:34.are committed to the talks process in the way forward. We just wish

:24:35. > :24:39.those participants in it were of the same mind, but there is a need of

:24:40. > :24:43.understanding and respect the people's traditions. We wish very

:24:44. > :24:58.much for that and hope that Sinn Fein will do the same. The families'

:24:59. > :25:06.lost will never be forgotten. Samuel Smart's dad came to my office last

:25:07. > :25:12.year and left me with a large thing wrapped up a newspaper. It turned

:25:13. > :25:15.out to be a blackthorn stick, which she presented to me, and wanted to

:25:16. > :25:30.give to me many years ago but I always refused and said, I I am not

:25:31. > :25:38.here to get it. The motif of the Ulster Defence Regiment. He says, I

:25:39. > :25:42.have got one for you and one for me. The reason for this debate again is

:25:43. > :25:49.to say I can only imagine the pain of 27 years, children without their

:25:50. > :25:54.parents and parents without the children. I can only imagine how

:25:55. > :25:59.every bit of terrorism is like a knife in your stomach, and this

:26:00. > :26:10.debate will also be Northern Ireland as well. Would-be member agree with

:26:11. > :26:13.me that we also need to concentrate on mental health and how we look at

:26:14. > :26:22.these families and everybody else and find a solution we can all agree

:26:23. > :26:26.on as soon as possible? He very clearly outlines part of the issue.

:26:27. > :26:37.The member referred to it earlier on. There is traumatised nation

:26:38. > :26:41.amongst those who have survived, and many in this chamber have served as

:26:42. > :26:45.well, and it is was good to see them here. I can only imagine how every

:26:46. > :26:49.provocation of terrorism bill is like a knife in your stomach. I

:26:50. > :26:56.cannot imagine anything worse than the murder of your child, fibre or

:26:57. > :27:01.spouse. I can only imagine, as you cry for your loss and ask for

:27:02. > :27:05.justice, watching those that came to the table with bloody hands having

:27:06. > :27:11.investigations and apologies handing out, what seems to be left, right

:27:12. > :27:17.and centre. I can only imagine what that means. I do and we'll do what

:27:18. > :27:22.we can in this House to highlight the issue and make the point. I

:27:23. > :27:26.standard this chamber with my colleagues and friends and declare

:27:27. > :27:32.again that we refuse to allow the rewriting of history to be made for

:27:33. > :27:36.evil seem to be good and for the unjustifiable to be thought of as

:27:37. > :27:47.anyway justified. We call a ban on the British government and the

:27:48. > :27:54.Minister... -- call upon. Could I just say to him that we hear a lot

:27:55. > :27:59.from Sinn Fein, calling for disclosure of government documents.

:28:00. > :28:04.I think it is about time there was disclosure from those members in the

:28:05. > :28:09.IRA and the IRA themselves, to hear why the four were targeted, and I

:28:10. > :28:22.think there is a noble miss the is missing. The members served in the

:28:23. > :28:26.Ulster Defence Regiment as well. He wore the uniform of Queen and

:28:27. > :28:33.country as well. We need Sinn Fein to step up, to recognise that there

:28:34. > :28:37.is an understanding of what we have suffered over the years in our

:28:38. > :28:44.community and the need to address that. I am sure he would join with

:28:45. > :28:50.me when we talk about the pain and disgust and disclosure and all the

:28:51. > :28:53.rest of it, whenever it was disclosed that certain members

:28:54. > :28:58.received letters of comfort and victims were still suffering, I am

:28:59. > :29:05.sure he will know that this party and the people of Northern Ireland

:29:06. > :29:18.totally disgusted. It does rankle arsenal. -- us all. There are some

:29:19. > :29:24.out there, we need people to set the record straight, stem the current

:29:25. > :29:28.tide of this, we seek to turn history around amongst cause of

:29:29. > :29:35.pollution, seek to distract from the fact described in this case, a 16

:29:36. > :29:38.man and woman team planting a bomb to wreak as much death and

:29:39. > :29:43.destruction is possible, the death of four men in their 20s and two

:29:44. > :29:51.passer-by civilians who happen to be in a car at that time. They wanted

:29:52. > :29:55.more blood, agony, heartache. They carried out more until they were

:29:56. > :30:02.halted on the way of holding them was whenever Colin Marks's mass

:30:03. > :30:08.murder, multiple monster that he is and was, was dispatched because he

:30:09. > :30:14.carried out that attempt to kill even more police officers. This was

:30:15. > :30:20.not a holy war, this was not freedom fighting, this was a wretched hatred

:30:21. > :30:24.at work. This was not a noble cause, this was butchery, and as time has

:30:25. > :30:34.moved on, we reiterate the call from those of us here and across the

:30:35. > :30:38.Chamber, justice for these men, how frustrating it is to hear these

:30:39. > :30:46.calls for justice for everyone else. I want justice, the party wants

:30:47. > :30:52.justice, to ensure that those grave UDR men and those who wore the

:30:53. > :31:03.uniform get justice as well. Would he accept that justice will never be

:31:04. > :31:05.done if Sinn Fein and the IRA are allowed through the legacy process

:31:06. > :31:09.to rewrite history, present themselves as freedom fighters who

:31:10. > :31:13.had some just cause rather than terrorists who were simply out to

:31:14. > :31:21.subvert the wishes of the people to remain part of the United Kingdom?

:31:22. > :31:30.Absolutely. They tried to equate the two together. Those in uniform were

:31:31. > :31:36.serving their queen and country to keep law and order. Those who wore

:31:37. > :31:44.barrack lavas and skulk that night and pushed bombs, they are the

:31:45. > :31:52.murderers. There is no comparison. We seek justice for everyone,

:31:53. > :31:55.justice that will not simply be in the incarceration of every single

:31:56. > :32:00.person involved in the bombing from the bomb makers to the clothes

:32:01. > :32:05.washers, all 16 who did a task in relation to people. Justice must

:32:06. > :32:17.also come through an end to historical fiction being presented

:32:18. > :32:23.as fact. The team that was involved in the despatching of Colm Marx,

:32:24. > :32:31.does he agree that they should receive medals for despatching one

:32:32. > :32:39.of Ulster's worst criminals. That is exactly how I feel about it. The day

:32:40. > :32:46.that evil, obnoxious, psychopathic multiple killer was put in the grave

:32:47. > :32:51.was a day that the world was a better place. It would have been

:32:52. > :33:07.bettered the day he was never born, down cause havoc, murder and mayhem

:33:08. > :33:11.across the province. 27 years ago, an holy week, the most unholy act of

:33:12. > :33:17.slaughter was carried out by men and women, some of whom are walking

:33:18. > :33:22.around today instead of paying for their crimes. I sincerely ask every

:33:23. > :33:28.person listening in this chamber or back at home to stop the

:33:29. > :33:39.re-traumatised nation of the victims of the trouble by accepting these we

:33:40. > :33:49.write. And I accept the honourable people who they so sacrificially

:33:50. > :33:56.served. I take the time for others in this chamber tonight. We ask for

:33:57. > :34:04.justice for those for young brave men and for their families who have

:34:05. > :34:08.suffered every day from traumatised nation and the memory of losing

:34:09. > :34:15.loved ones. All others in this house remember their bravery, their

:34:16. > :34:21.coverage and their sacrifice. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. First of

:34:22. > :34:28.all, I start by Congress jury to the honourable gentleman for securing

:34:29. > :34:34.this important debate this evening. The member for Strangford, I know,

:34:35. > :34:40.as has been mentioned is a former member of the UDR and the member of

:34:41. > :34:47.Lagan Valley and Fermanagh, many people have been stepped up to be

:34:48. > :34:53.leaders in Northern Ireland and have served gallantly in very troubled

:34:54. > :35:01.times both in regular service to the UDR and the RUC. I just want to pay

:35:02. > :35:07.my respects to that organisation. I think the member for Beckenham put

:35:08. > :35:17.it absolutely right, we have huge respect for that as people, who, we

:35:18. > :35:22.in the regular Army went home and went back to in my case Yorkshire,

:35:23. > :35:31.he's from somewhere down south, I think. Cheshire. The point is, we

:35:32. > :35:36.went back to our homes, to a safe place whereas I know lots of you and

:35:37. > :35:43.lots of people who served in the UDR and RUC went back with that fear

:35:44. > :35:48.still every moment of the day. I'd also like to express my condolences

:35:49. > :35:52.and sympathies to the families and friends of the young soldiers who on

:35:53. > :35:58.the 9th of April 1990 tragic the lost their lives in this horrendous

:35:59. > :36:04.terrorist atrocity. It is evident that for many people the legacy of

:36:05. > :36:10.Northern Ireland's past continues to be, continues to cast a very dark

:36:11. > :36:14.shadow over the present. I am very conscious that in approaching this

:36:15. > :36:19.is you we recognised that terrible loss suffered by so many people

:36:20. > :36:23.during the troubles in Northern Ireland and in other parts of the

:36:24. > :36:34.United Kingdom. Over the period of the trouble is, broadly speaking

:36:35. > :36:40.from 1968 to 1998, around 3.5 -- around 3500 were killed, many in the

:36:41. > :36:46.line of duty protecting the public and maintaining the rule of law.

:36:47. > :36:49.Thousands were also maimed and injured jawing terrorist campaigns.

:36:50. > :36:56.This government has always been clear that we, and this point was

:36:57. > :37:00.made by several members, this government has always been clear

:37:01. > :37:06.that we wholly reject any suggestion of some equivalence between the

:37:07. > :37:08.security forces and those who carried out these terrorist

:37:09. > :37:16.atrocities. Terrorism was and is wholly wrong. It was never and could

:37:17. > :37:25.never be justified, from whichever side it came, Republican. No

:37:26. > :37:31.injustices perceived or otherwise warranted the actions of the para

:37:32. > :37:45.meant to -- paramilitary groups which caused the immense damage

:37:46. > :37:52.whenever these atrocities were carried out. We need to look at

:37:53. > :37:56.mental health and how best we get veterans access to these services. I

:37:57. > :38:01.hope the other side of the general election we can make sure everybody

:38:02. > :38:04.knows, who cares about those people, those veterans, that we make sure

:38:05. > :38:09.we've got good access and are able to channel people to get the support

:38:10. > :38:15.they deserve and need. As someone who has served in Northern Ireland,

:38:16. > :38:20.and as a proud member of the Majesty 's Armed Forces, in the British

:38:21. > :38:25.Army, I witnessed at first hand the remarkable dedication and courage

:38:26. > :38:32.Armed Forces and officers of the Ulster Unionist Constabulary, sorry,

:38:33. > :38:37.the Royal Ulster Constabulary performed during my time. Over 1000

:38:38. > :38:42.members of the curative forces lost their lives over the period of

:38:43. > :38:48.operation, the longest continuous military deployment in this

:38:49. > :38:54.country's history. And the issue of awards and medals was mentioned

:38:55. > :38:58.earlier on, around 7000 awards for bravery were made and without the

:38:59. > :39:03.dedication and self-sacrifice of the security forces to keep the people

:39:04. > :39:08.of Northern Ireland safe and circumstances that enabled the peace

:39:09. > :39:13.process to take root, take old would never have happened without the

:39:14. > :39:22.gallant work of these people. As I've already alluded, dealing with

:39:23. > :39:26.Northern Ireland's past is difficult and complex and many victims and

:39:27. > :39:31.survivors who are today still suffering on the basis of the

:39:32. > :39:36.results of the troubles and the way it impacted those individuals, it's

:39:37. > :39:40.clear that the legacy institutions as they are currently setup are not

:39:41. > :39:45.working for everyone and we have a victim to everyone to have a

:39:46. > :39:50.comprehensive approach to provide a way forward for everyone. That is

:39:51. > :39:54.why the government continues to believe that the Stormont house

:39:55. > :39:58.institutions remain the best way forward for dealing with Northern

:39:59. > :40:02.Ireland's past. I believe these proposals will make the situation

:40:03. > :40:06.better for victims and survivors and is the best chance of prosecuting

:40:07. > :40:12.terrorists for murdering police officers and soldiers along with

:40:13. > :40:18.other victims. I believe the historical investigations unit, a

:40:19. > :40:22.body proposed in the Stormont house agreement has a number of advantages

:40:23. > :40:24.over current system in place in Northern Ireland. It will

:40:25. > :40:31.investigate deaths in chronological order, taking each case in turn, it

:40:32. > :40:35.will include in its investigation many hundreds of murders caused by

:40:36. > :40:42.terrorists, including those of soldiers, this will include the

:40:43. > :40:46.murders of the 18 soldiers at Warrenpoint in 1979, the largest

:40:47. > :40:54.loss of life in the Army in any single incident in the troubles.

:40:55. > :41:01.Madam Deputy Speaker, it's estimated that without the form, the current

:41:02. > :41:07.mechanisms, around 185 murders of soldiers will not be reinvestigated,

:41:08. > :41:13.not to mention the many murders of RUC members. There will be a

:41:14. > :41:23.statutory duty to act in a manner that is balanced, proportions, fair

:41:24. > :41:27.and equitable. The HS you will be time limited with an aim to bring an

:41:28. > :41:31.end to all of these investigations into the past within five years.

:41:32. > :41:42.Just before I come to the conclusion, on the issue of the

:41:43. > :41:46.honourable member for Strangford raises, it would be inappropriate

:41:47. > :41:53.for me to comment but there is provision under the proposals that

:41:54. > :41:57.where there is no evidence the right institutions go in pursuit of those

:41:58. > :42:04.and get to the bottom and pursue the people responsible for it. What I

:42:05. > :42:07.would say to the right honourable gentleman, where you have got

:42:08. > :42:10.evidence, bring that forward and I would use all my officers to make

:42:11. > :42:19.sure that evidence can be placed into the right hands to be dealt

:42:20. > :42:24.with appropriately. By all means. Would he accept however that despite

:42:25. > :42:31.all the words he has said that new evidence or new ways of interpreting

:42:32. > :42:36.evidence is now being used as a means to carry out what many regard

:42:37. > :42:42.as a witchhunt against members of the security forces who took out

:42:43. > :42:46.people like Colm Marx and that's where the anger and the injustice

:42:47. > :42:55.appears to be coming through in Northern Ireland and which is

:42:56. > :43:03.re-traumatised and many of those who served in Northern Ireland and are

:43:04. > :43:06.seeing themselves used as some pawn in a politically expedient game to

:43:07. > :43:12.try and buy of Sinn Fein and get them back into government. Thank you

:43:13. > :43:16.for the intervention. I just want to give you my reassurance that I think

:43:17. > :43:23.the route I suggested will address that and give people confidence. It

:43:24. > :43:29.is important, I say this as a former soldier myself, that I've played by

:43:30. > :43:33.the rules. Many people played by the walls. Occasionally individuals make

:43:34. > :43:42.mistakes and they need to be accountable for it. Because we were

:43:43. > :43:49.part of the establishment we had rules of engagement, we believe in

:43:50. > :43:55.the Geneva Convention, a whole set of rules, that's the difference

:43:56. > :44:04.between our two. I look at and solve the veterans march a few weeks ago

:44:05. > :44:10.and Doug Beattie was a guest speaker at that and many good points he put

:44:11. > :44:15.in there and one of the key points he made was that if you break the

:44:16. > :44:23.law, you should face the law. There was a man campaigning for that --

:44:24. > :44:26.for veterans but he recognises that those who have broken the law need

:44:27. > :44:33.to be accountable regardless of which side. I agree totally with

:44:34. > :44:37.that point but it is not the point that my colleague from East Antrim

:44:38. > :44:46.made. In this particular case, the officer who dispatched Colm Marx has

:44:47. > :44:51.been through three individual inquests. He was a friend of mine

:44:52. > :45:00.growing up. He went through an ombudsman's inquest, there is now a

:45:01. > :45:04.second inquest, on the basis of dodgy evidence that has been

:45:05. > :45:08.produced. He will be dragged through that process again, his wife and

:45:09. > :45:13.family will be traumatised by it and that is why I said he and his team

:45:14. > :45:17.should have been given a medal that night. That should be the honour

:45:18. > :45:19.that our state should be giving these people, not dragging them

:45:20. > :45:25.through the process of constantly going through what they did.

:45:26. > :45:31.I understand the passion with which the honourable gentleman talks

:45:32. > :45:34.spotted a large balance and proportion in our response and the

:45:35. > :45:41.state was in response to this. All means. Thank you. I thank the

:45:42. > :45:47.Minister for giving way. I know he understands. There is a real worry,

:45:48. > :45:53.as my honourable friends, who are really my friends on the other side

:45:54. > :45:58.of the house, have said, is the proportionality of investigation

:45:59. > :46:06.that Riaz. It is also the fact that many people who carry out crimes

:46:07. > :46:12.seem to have -- worry us. Have their crimes blown out, blown away yet

:46:13. > :46:17.soldiers, policemen and others who have carried out their duties using

:46:18. > :46:22.the yellow card rules and under the role seem to have a fair and that

:46:23. > :46:30.they will be a blot on their doors to drag them before a court. -- a

:46:31. > :46:37.knock on their door. This is the worry that we have. -- fear. I know

:46:38. > :46:42.the minister understand this because they have discussed it outside this

:46:43. > :46:47.house, but this is the worry all the people sitting in this chamber at

:46:48. > :46:53.the moment that our men and women who did everything right can't sleep

:46:54. > :47:02.as well as others who did everything wrong. Can I thank my gallant friend

:47:03. > :47:06.for his intervention and I think he's right with the fact it is that

:47:07. > :47:11.I've been proportionate. I know he, as a man of justice, would know that

:47:12. > :47:17.if someone does something wrong, they need to be accountable for it.

:47:18. > :47:22.What is appropriate in this process, under the Stormont agreement, is

:47:23. > :47:25.that we bring a model forward for those victims and survivors, and we

:47:26. > :47:29.have a system which is right. I do appreciate the support from the

:47:30. > :47:35.benches around this issue to bring this to conclusion and part of that

:47:36. > :47:44.has got to be that we need a working mechanism of Government in Northern

:47:45. > :47:48.Ireland where a devolved institution can work effectively and to bring

:47:49. > :47:55.justice and bring some peace to the individuals. I want to conclude, I

:47:56. > :47:57.have outlined the reasons why the Secretary of State recently

:47:58. > :48:06.announced his intention to move to a public says. -- phase and why we

:48:07. > :48:13.have engaged intensively with victim groups to move a full on the

:48:14. > :48:16.outstanding issues. I believe this has the potential to build greater

:48:17. > :48:20.confidence in the new bodies and resolve the remaining issues. It is

:48:21. > :48:23.clear that the status quo is not working well for victims and

:48:24. > :48:31.families, and it time progresses made. This will make sure our

:48:32. > :48:33.veterans are not unfairly treated all district urgently investigated

:48:34. > :48:39.and will reflect the fact that 90% of the deaths and troubles, any

:48:40. > :48:45.troubles were caused by terrorists, and caused so much pain and

:48:46. > :48:51.suffering. This Government remains distinct in its admiration of the

:48:52. > :48:54.role of forces plays to ensure that Northern Ireland's future will be

:48:55. > :49:00.forever divided by democracy and consent. We salute bays -- decided.

:49:01. > :49:09.We salute soldiers for their sacrifices. I've responded to

:49:10. > :49:13.several debates of this nature and I know it very difficult for the

:49:14. > :49:18.people who put the debate forward. I think it's important for the

:49:19. > :49:21.people... He's like about the horrors happening that day and have

:49:22. > :49:27.to, and other honourable members have spoken about being respectful

:49:28. > :49:32.to each other and working to gather any different place that is not the

:49:33. > :49:42.9th of April 1990, what it is today. I don't, I went there two days. The

:49:43. > :49:47.place it is the day is not the place it was before. The high school is an

:49:48. > :49:53.amazing place full of bright young people. They're with me. To go and

:49:54. > :50:01.visit the voluntary groups. -- stay with me. Can I thank the Minister

:50:02. > :50:04.for giving way. As someone who was born, raised and educated in

:50:05. > :50:10.Downpatrick, I can quite clearly say to the Minister that it was one of

:50:11. > :50:16.the first councils back in 1973 that introduced and participated in a

:50:17. > :50:19.power-sharing arrangement at local government level which the game

:50:20. > :50:28.plying their arrangement for the rest of Northern Ireland. -- became

:50:29. > :50:35.the pioneering. Having met the staph and the people who participate in

:50:36. > :50:40.the projects of the Barry moat centre in the estate, that is very

:50:41. > :50:46.much the view that I and others want to see the trade of Downpatrick at

:50:47. > :50:53.an integrated place for a shared society. I don't want to get away

:50:54. > :50:58.from the debate to day but it is important just to reiterate, and the

:50:59. > :51:01.honourable lady is very right with the fact that there are people

:51:02. > :51:08.across the community coming together and living in a peaceful, cohesive

:51:09. > :51:11.place. There are always tension and pressure around but actually it is a

:51:12. > :51:17.completely different place. During my visit, I want to finish on this

:51:18. > :51:22.point, I went to Downpatrick police station because, at 2pm, PC Keith

:51:23. > :51:27.Palmer was being buried, we were over there and we had a two-minute

:51:28. > :51:33.silence for him at the Memorial within the police nation, of which