19/07/2017

:00:00. > :00:00.and hauled herself until that point we look forward to what she wishes

:00:07. > :00:12.to unburden herself. Urgent question.

:00:13. > :00:15.To ask the Secretary of State for justice if he will make a statement

:00:16. > :00:25.on safety in prisons and the findings of Her Majesty's Chief

:00:26. > :00:29.Inspector 's annual report? Thank you. Independent scrutiny is

:00:30. > :00:33.an essential part of our prison service and I would like to thank

:00:34. > :00:38.the Chief inspector and his team for their work in delivering this

:00:39. > :00:43.including through his annual report. The report raises some important

:00:44. > :00:48.issues in relation to safety and security, we have been clear a calm

:00:49. > :00:52.and ordered environment must be created to ensure effective

:00:53. > :00:58.rehabilitation and achieving this is our priority. The current levels of

:00:59. > :01:02.violence and self harm in the adult estate are unacceptable. Issues in

:01:03. > :01:07.our prisons have deep roots, they will not be a overnight and we are

:01:08. > :01:13.planning immediate action to stabilise them with significant

:01:14. > :01:16.investment. Examples include investing 100 million a year to

:01:17. > :01:23.bring in another 2500 prison officers by the end of next year,

:01:24. > :01:28.making significant process was an increase of 515 by the end of March

:01:29. > :01:32.compared to previous quarter. On youth Justice, the annual report

:01:33. > :01:37.highlights issues regarding use estate and I would reassure the

:01:38. > :01:40.member safety and welfare of every young person in custody is of

:01:41. > :01:45.paramount importance to me and we are clear up more must be done to

:01:46. > :01:49.achieve this. In response to the review of youth justice system last

:01:50. > :01:54.December the Government acknowledged the serious issues it faces and that

:01:55. > :02:01.is why we are reforming the system. Let me give you three examples.

:02:02. > :02:06.Firstly we have created a new youth custody servers with an executive

:02:07. > :02:10.director for the first time, secondly, the development of a new

:02:11. > :02:13.youth justice specialist offers a role ensures more staff can

:02:14. > :02:18.specifically be trained to work with young people to boost the number on

:02:19. > :02:21.operational front line in institutions by 20% and recruiting

:02:22. > :02:26.workers specifically trained to work within the youth sector. Thirdly,

:02:27. > :02:30.the introduction of a more individualised approach for young

:02:31. > :02:33.people focus on education and health, enhancing the workforce,

:02:34. > :02:39.improving governance and developing the security state. Finally, the

:02:40. > :02:43.report expresses disappointment about the implementation rate of the

:02:44. > :02:48.recommendations and are recognised as concerned and to address this we

:02:49. > :02:52.have created a new unit was on Her Majesty's proposed and -- prison and

:02:53. > :02:57.probation service to make sure recommendations are taken forward in

:02:58. > :03:00.a timely manner and track how Leanne fomented by prisons. The issues with

:03:01. > :03:03.that our prisons will not be resolved overnight but we are

:03:04. > :03:08.determined to make progress as quickly as possible and I hope

:03:09. > :03:16.members on both sides of the house will support our plans for reform.

:03:17. > :03:21.Thank you. Last year the chief inspector reported to many of our

:03:22. > :03:26.prisons have become unacceptably violent and dangerous. This year he

:03:27. > :03:32.reports the situation has not improved and has got worse. Staff

:03:33. > :03:37.assaults up by 30% in the 12 month to December 20 16. The 20 in local

:03:38. > :03:42.prisons and institutes inspected last year, 21 were judged to be

:03:43. > :03:48.people are not sufficiently goods in safety. Only two weeks ago I raised

:03:49. > :03:52.the issues at Feltham Young offenders Institute but this report

:03:53. > :03:56.is because even greater concern. The increase in violence is a crisis of

:03:57. > :04:01.the Government's own making, the warning signs have been there, MPs

:04:02. > :04:07.have warned them, by staff in our prisons and by charities. Now they

:04:08. > :04:11.have been by this damning report. The budget for prisons have been cut

:04:12. > :04:16.by more than one fifth over the last five years, which is proved to be a

:04:17. > :04:21.false economy. Prison staff got by one quarter and those remaining are

:04:22. > :04:25.put at risk now. The human impact of austerity is laid bare at the door

:04:26. > :04:29.of our prison system. Effective prisons should be about

:04:30. > :04:34.rehabilitation so people come out less likely to offend but with

:04:35. > :04:38.drugs, building contributing to violence that has been found to be

:04:39. > :04:44.compounded by staffing levels described as simply too low to keep

:04:45. > :04:47.order and of a decent regime. In the last parliament the Government

:04:48. > :04:52.introduced a bill to address safety concerns, the bill was lost at the

:04:53. > :04:57.solution. Despite recognition of prison safety being in the Tory

:04:58. > :05:01.manifesto no present legislation was announced in the 2017 Queen's speech

:05:02. > :05:05.so can the Minister confirm that there is any intention to bring back

:05:06. > :05:09.legislation and can he update the house as to why one third of the

:05:10. > :05:13.prisons have also been found to not have implemented the prisons and

:05:14. > :05:18.probation recommendations to reduce the risk of self-inflicted death?

:05:19. > :05:23.What action is being taken to address Government's concerns and

:05:24. > :05:25.the extensive use of force and segregation and can the Minister

:05:26. > :05:29.update the house on the implementation of recruitment and

:05:30. > :05:34.action to keep experienced staff and retain new staff. Our prison service

:05:35. > :05:44.is no longer fit for purpose and the Government must take urgent action.

:05:45. > :05:48.We fully recognise the difficulties in the prison system and have been

:05:49. > :05:51.honest about that. The staffing issue has been indicated as a

:05:52. > :05:58.problem and has been addressed in the last year and we have appointed

:05:59. > :06:04.more than 500 to March and on course to fulfil our target of 2500 extra

:06:05. > :06:11.officers by the end of next year. I would argue the unforeseen

:06:12. > :06:17.exacerbation in prisons has been spice. And drug use also. It was not

:06:18. > :06:21.anticipated by any previous Government and this is undeniably

:06:22. > :06:25.causing difficulties both in terms of behaviour of the prisoners and

:06:26. > :06:29.indeed the corruption of the prisoners and some staff with

:06:30. > :06:34.regards to the trade in these substances. I would finally see the

:06:35. > :06:41.mental health purposes with prisons are also issues which I take very

:06:42. > :06:44.seriously and yesterday had meetings with those who have the

:06:45. > :06:49.responsibility for this. We recognise we must improve mental

:06:50. > :06:53.health services in both custody and community for offenders. We

:06:54. > :06:57.recognise substance misuse and services operate must improve in

:06:58. > :07:01.both custody and community and are working hard in order to improve

:07:02. > :07:03.them because we know they are contributing to the problems the

:07:04. > :07:10.honourable lady is mentioned. Finally, with reference the youth

:07:11. > :07:16.and in particular to Felton, the use of segregation is an issue and has

:07:17. > :07:21.been with the case raised. I cannot comment on that particular case

:07:22. > :07:25.because there is an appeal, however, it indicates how difficult it can be

:07:26. > :07:32.to manage young people. Over the past ten years the population of

:07:33. > :07:36.people being held in custody as fallen from 3000 1000, that is

:07:37. > :07:39.something to celebrate, however, what is not to celebrate it

:07:40. > :07:43.initially when the target was set before 2010, there was no plan in

:07:44. > :07:47.place in order to change the infrastructure to meet the demands

:07:48. > :07:51.of dealing with 1000 extremely difficult young people at any one

:07:52. > :07:55.time and the management and we are seeing problems, not just at that

:07:56. > :07:58.Institute but across the system in youth justice and these are things I

:07:59. > :08:08.am fully aware of that why we are bringing forward to new things over

:08:09. > :08:13.the next two years. The ministry's right to be frank

:08:14. > :08:16.that at the Minister is right to be frank about the dire state of others

:08:17. > :08:21.in prisons which the select committee highlighted in several

:08:22. > :08:24.reports -- of our prisons. Would he recognise although there is no

:08:25. > :08:29.present resolution proposed in the current session it would be

:08:30. > :08:33.appropriate for the Government to take forward much of the prison

:08:34. > :08:39.reform agenda but does not require legislation and in particular will

:08:40. > :08:44.he commit to sure that data is provided and update is provided to

:08:45. > :08:48.this house on the progress of implementation of Her Majesty's

:08:49. > :08:55.Inspectorate's recommendations. We do not have to have a recommendation

:08:56. > :09:01.about! Legislation -- we do not need legislation to track the progress

:09:02. > :09:05.being made. I congratulate him on his reappointment as chair of the

:09:06. > :09:09.just the select committee. We are committed to transparency on this

:09:10. > :09:12.and recognise there are a series of challenges and problems within the

:09:13. > :09:16.system and I would be more than happy to come before the select

:09:17. > :09:19.committee and discuss this further. What legislation, we have not ruled

:09:20. > :09:25.out future legislation for prisons but I would argue there is quite a

:09:26. > :09:28.lot we can be getting on with that does not require legislation. We are

:09:29. > :09:36.eager and keen and determined to reform our prison system.

:09:37. > :09:39.Yesterday scathing report by the Chief Inspector of prisons in

:09:40. > :09:44.England and Wales is a watershed moment in the national debate on our

:09:45. > :09:47.prisons. Prison should be places not only for punishment about

:09:48. > :09:53.rehabilitation and should be making us all safer and the short run and

:09:54. > :09:58.longer term. I believe the whole house will be alarmed by the Chief

:09:59. > :10:03.Inspector's view to many of our prisons have become unacceptably

:10:04. > :10:08.violent and dangerous places. Also of the hosts are well aware that if

:10:09. > :10:12.a crisis in our prisons and what the report yesterday revealed is despite

:10:13. > :10:19.warm words from the Government the situation is not under control, it

:10:20. > :10:23.is getting worse. Given this, the Minister has serious questions to

:10:24. > :10:26.answer. Firstly, does he agree with the remarks by his former colleague,

:10:27. > :10:33.the former Chancellor of the Exchequer and former next Prime

:10:34. > :10:37.Minister prisons are approaching an emergency? What role does he think

:10:38. > :10:41.the cuts to the prison budgets and 20p have contributed to this and

:10:42. > :10:50.what measures will he undertake to address this? The Chief inspector

:10:51. > :10:54.warned this crisis has all been compounded by staffing levels and

:10:55. > :11:01.many journals that are simply too low and so does the Minister agree

:11:02. > :11:06.prison officers deserve a pay rise, if we are to increase numbers and

:11:07. > :11:12.improve retention? The Chief inspector also said he is "Appalled

:11:13. > :11:16.by the conditions in which we hold many prisoners." Given the Scot what

:11:17. > :11:22.measures is the Minister taking to address this so we can reform

:11:23. > :11:28.prisons and so prisoners leave prison as less of a danger to

:11:29. > :11:32.society? Or shockingly, the number of self-inflicted deaths as more

:11:33. > :11:38.than doubled since 2013 so what strategy and specific resources will

:11:39. > :11:43.be Minister allocate to reduce this? Finally, the chief inspector says he

:11:44. > :11:47.reached a conclusion there was not a single establishment we inspected in

:11:48. > :11:53.which it was safe to hold children and young people, adding the speed

:11:54. > :11:57.of decline has been staggering. In 2013-14 nine out of 12 institutions

:11:58. > :12:02.were graded as good or reasonably good for safety. Given this, what

:12:03. > :12:12.explanation does the minister have this? Everyone knows the Government

:12:13. > :12:15.has created a crisis and our prisons and the report shows the Government

:12:16. > :12:23.is failing to take action to solve this crisis they have created.

:12:24. > :12:30.I do not think and will not accept the Department has lost control of

:12:31. > :12:35.the prison system, that is nonsense. Secondly, I would like to talk about

:12:36. > :12:40.the 1.3 billion we have invested to transform the state. By transforming

:12:41. > :12:43.it we will improve the quality of the accommodation for prisoners

:12:44. > :12:50.which will have a direct impact on the problems we are encountering in

:12:51. > :12:53.small volumes of people who have mental health and suicidal issues

:12:54. > :12:58.and we recognise part of our estate are antiquated which is why we are

:12:59. > :13:04.investing. In terms of use justice, as I said, we know there are many

:13:05. > :13:07.difficulties in youth justice, violence and rate is ten times

:13:08. > :13:13.higher in youth justice can pay to the adult prison estate. I would

:13:14. > :13:17.like to support and give full support to the staff who continue to

:13:18. > :13:21.work in the youth estate because I have seen it personally and visited

:13:22. > :13:26.the majority of these estates and it is a very difficult and the genesis

:13:27. > :13:31.of this, I would argue, is over many years and as I alluded to earlier of

:13:32. > :13:34.the admirable intention to reduce the number of people in the youth

:13:35. > :13:39.estate being locked up has brought us to the point where we have got a

:13:40. > :13:42.very challenging population that is particularly vibrant and difficult

:13:43. > :13:48.to manage which is why we have these problems. We are bringing forward on

:13:49. > :13:52.secure schools and we have two in the pipeline are content to make

:13:53. > :13:56.them a completely different regime, balance of curriculum and I am

:13:57. > :14:01.particularly passionate about the use of sport to deal with issues we

:14:02. > :14:04.are confronting. I am under no illusions about how difficult this

:14:05. > :14:08.is. We have a plan and will implement it.

:14:09. > :14:13.Mr Speaker, I know the minister appreciate that people with autism

:14:14. > :14:20.are disproportionately represented in our locker still deal system.

:14:21. > :14:25.Notwithstanding the issues that it was the first person to receive

:14:26. > :14:29.autism friendly accreditation, and the governor and staff report that

:14:30. > :14:35.it did contribute to a diminishment any levels of violence across the

:14:36. > :14:38.whole estate. I know some 20 Britons have indicated interest, but would

:14:39. > :14:43.the minister look at this programme and look at actually making it

:14:44. > :14:46.compulsory to roll-out across the entire is an estate, because I think

:14:47. > :14:55.it would be of benefit to prisoners and prison staff alike. I thank her

:14:56. > :15:00.for the question. I am more than happy to consider rolling that out.

:15:01. > :15:06.There are positive schemes, not just with regard to the diagnosis and

:15:07. > :15:10.treatment of autism, but also very sports clubs, football clubs,

:15:11. > :15:15.Saracens at Pelton, the work they are doing any evidence of the

:15:16. > :15:20.outcomes is very positive. That is why I am passionate about this area,

:15:21. > :15:24.because I think that if we can get the management of autism and mental

:15:25. > :15:27.health and broaden the curriculum so there is more time spent outside of

:15:28. > :15:31.cells, I am convinced that we can change the behaviour in the

:15:32. > :15:34.atmosphere within each of these prisons and these institutions, so

:15:35. > :15:44.our staff in these places can feel is safe. The combination of rising

:15:45. > :15:49.prison numbers and shrinking budgets is able major factor affecting the

:15:50. > :15:52.welfare of both prison officers and prisoners, and it is regrettable

:15:53. > :15:55.that in this situation the UK Government has dropped prison reform

:15:56. > :16:00.from the Queen's speech and continues to cut budgets and staff

:16:01. > :16:04.numbers. In contrast, in Scotland, the SNP Government has continued to

:16:05. > :16:09.invest in modernising and improving the prison estate, and the Scottish

:16:10. > :16:11.Government has committed to significant penal reforms aimed at

:16:12. > :16:16.reducing reoffending by moving away from custodial sentences in favour

:16:17. > :16:20.of community sentences, which had been proven to be better at

:16:21. > :16:23.rehabilitation. Does the minister agree that he should follow the

:16:24. > :16:28.example of the Scottish Government and concentrate his efforts on

:16:29. > :16:31.schemes that will reduce prison numbers and reduce overcrowding,

:16:32. > :16:38.thereby reducing pressure on prison officers and prisoners? Yes,

:16:39. > :16:42.intellect and I would agree that we can reduce the prison population,

:16:43. > :16:48.this would make life easier, I know this The to your state agrees with

:16:49. > :16:50.that position. The big day is that balance constantly by the Justice

:16:51. > :16:54.issue, people who have committed crimes in the desert their time, the

:16:55. > :16:58.question is whether the south that time. I am is possible for women

:16:59. > :17:02.passed by justice, there is a strategy coming out at the end of

:17:03. > :17:06.the year, where I lay much wanted to concentrate on community provision

:17:07. > :17:09.of sentences. I think if we can move to that model of provision, this

:17:10. > :17:15.could be rolled out in future years to the adult male state, there is a

:17:16. > :17:20.lot to be learned from every House people when they are serving their

:17:21. > :17:23.time. I am going to Scotland in the autumn, and I'm looking forward to

:17:24. > :17:31.seeing the progress up there because I gather very good work is being

:17:32. > :17:42.done. If he satisfied that there are sufficient remedies available now to

:17:43. > :17:47.deal violent offenders? Yes, I am. The minister is quite right to say

:17:48. > :17:50.that legislation by itself will not solve this crisis, and then used the

:17:51. > :17:54.other measures. Given that there was a printer 's Bill already drafted

:17:55. > :17:58.that had made some progress in the last session, can you tell the House

:17:59. > :18:02.while that Bill has been dropped, and if the Government is committed

:18:03. > :18:07.to prison reform, why hasn't dropped a piece of legislation that was

:18:08. > :18:11.ready to be had by this House? We can deliver our reform package

:18:12. > :18:13.without the need for any further legislation, if there is a

:18:14. > :18:20.requirement for further legislation then that has not been ruled out in

:18:21. > :18:24.a future. As he recognises, the S Parliamentary time prices here and

:18:25. > :18:26.this is something which we are having to accommodate, however there

:18:27. > :18:31.is absolutely no reason why we cannot continue with the reform

:18:32. > :18:37.programme that we have planned. Would he agree that while they are

:18:38. > :18:42.challenges, there is much positive transformative work being done in

:18:43. > :18:44.prisons by dedicated officers on mental health, chaplaincy services,

:18:45. > :18:51.restorative justice programmes, like the work I have seen and full cross

:18:52. > :18:54.over many years. Would he join me in thanking them and the many dedicated

:18:55. > :18:59.officers like them who do such a feminist job? I thank her for the

:19:00. > :19:03.question. Yes, again, it is an example of how throughout the

:19:04. > :19:07.system, there are positive schemes being followed. There are people

:19:08. > :19:11.working in a variety of areas, including mental health, who are

:19:12. > :19:14.delivering care to prisoners who need that care. So that they can

:19:15. > :19:26.probably rehabilitate for returning to society. The minister refers to

:19:27. > :19:32.the advent of drugs like spice as being an unknown quantity, but with

:19:33. > :19:35.a quarter fewer prison officers since 2010, I hardly think that

:19:36. > :19:40.helps to address these new challenges. Our thoughts on staff

:19:41. > :19:45.are up by 70% since 2009, and in 2016 alone one in five justice staff

:19:46. > :19:49.left the sector. Will he confirm that there is an attempt in crisis

:19:50. > :19:52.that is being fuelled by the disgraceful amount of rising

:19:53. > :19:58.assaults on staff and our prison service? As I hope my honourable

:19:59. > :20:01.colleague acknowledges, I am trying to be a candidate possible about the

:20:02. > :20:06.difficulties we face. We acknowledged a year ago that there

:20:07. > :20:10.was a need for more staff, we are delivering on that. I must stress

:20:11. > :20:14.there wasn't an expectation this drug was going to cause this

:20:15. > :20:18.problem. There is yet to be proper documentation about how this drug

:20:19. > :20:22.affects the prisoners, the people taking it, and their behaviour, and

:20:23. > :20:26.the long-term impact it might have the prison population. We

:20:27. > :20:29.acknowledge that we need more staff, and that those staff need better

:20:30. > :20:32.training, particularly in the youth justice system we are bringing a

:20:33. > :20:36.youth custody role, because it recognised the need to be additional

:20:37. > :20:45.skills. We recognise what the problems are and we are working to

:20:46. > :20:49.solve them. I know the minister will share my concern about the impact of

:20:50. > :20:52.contraband, including psychoactive substances on prisoners and the

:20:53. > :20:55.buyer was it can cause. Could he confirm what measures are being

:20:56. > :21:03.taken by the Department to stop these materials get into prisons in

:21:04. > :21:08.the first place? Yes, we have improved the seizure of drugs, by

:21:09. > :21:12.two out of 25 kilos last 12 months, up on the previous year, we have

:21:13. > :21:17.employed dogs to detect psychoactive substances and we are the first area

:21:18. > :21:20.jurisdiction in the world to introduce. Testing for psychoactive

:21:21. > :21:27.substances and we continue to develop that service as the

:21:28. > :21:32.substances themselves evolve. I do hope that the new youth custody

:21:33. > :21:36.service that is planned does work, but can he say how many new prison

:21:37. > :21:43.officers will be joining this service this year? No, I cannot give

:21:44. > :21:50.an exact figure. I will get right to him with the figure, but we are

:21:51. > :21:53.actively seeking to recruit an invisible institution, but Eleni

:21:54. > :21:59.south east where there are always challenges around recruiting prison

:22:00. > :22:02.staff, and we are trying, more importantly, to recruit people who

:22:03. > :22:07.have a past history of working with young people. It is a difficult

:22:08. > :22:10.business, working with troubled young individuals, and we recognise

:22:11. > :22:14.that there may have been some errors in the past in terms of recruitment,

:22:15. > :22:17.so going forward we want to recruit people had the proper experience in

:22:18. > :22:29.place. I will write to him about the exact number. Could he say that as a

:22:30. > :22:32.result of this report that he will prioritise rehabilitation plans for

:22:33. > :22:38.offenders, and employment opportunities for ex-offenders? That

:22:39. > :22:42.is very much our intention. There are a number of schemes up and down

:22:43. > :22:48.the country where employers are involved, I visited a women's prison

:22:49. > :22:55.where Halfords have a bicycle repair unit, and I met an offender who was

:22:56. > :22:58.going to leave prison to work for Halfords. I think these kids up and

:22:59. > :23:01.down the country are fantastic, I think we need more of them, and we

:23:02. > :23:08.are working hard to have more of them. This is surely an issue of

:23:09. > :23:10.safeguarding. The chief inspector saying there's not a signal

:23:11. > :23:14.establishment that is not currently saved to hold children and young

:23:15. > :23:18.people. The minister did not answer the specific question put to him by

:23:19. > :23:23.my honourable friend about why there has been such a decline in safety

:23:24. > :23:26.over a staggering decline in the last year, but also as the chief

:23:27. > :23:29.inspector has said, a slump in standards. Can he explain what a

:23:30. > :23:40.slump in standards means, and what he's doing to address it? I don't

:23:41. > :23:43.accept that all institutions are unfit, Werrington received a

:23:44. > :23:46.positive report last week, with regard to the slump, I would also

:23:47. > :23:51.argue that it is not over the last year. The genesis of this problem, I

:23:52. > :23:55.keep making this point, is over a number of years, and with regards

:23:56. > :23:59.particularly to certain institutions. We are wrestling with

:24:00. > :24:03.a legacy at one particular institution where the contract was

:24:04. > :24:08.signed in 2004 is presenting us that act prevented us from making the

:24:09. > :24:12.necessary changes. The idea that this is a problem that was created

:24:13. > :24:18.by this Government is quite obviously just a rather simplistic

:24:19. > :24:23.one and not accurate. This Government is building new prison

:24:24. > :24:25.capacity, including at Wellingborough in Northamptonshire,

:24:26. > :24:31.what difference does my audible friend believe this will make in

:24:32. > :24:37.terms of improving safety? I thank him for his question. Some of the

:24:38. > :24:40.prisons, we have they are Victorian, antiquated, the quality of the cells

:24:41. > :24:45.are substandard, we recognise that which is why building new prisons,

:24:46. > :24:48.prison cells where suicide is much more difficult to commit for

:24:49. > :24:52.example, is what is needed in the system, which is why I am pleased

:24:53. > :25:00.that we are investing ?1.3 billion to do so. I declare an interest as

:25:01. > :25:04.an outgoing crime commission, can I say to him that this report is

:25:05. > :25:10.devastating. He must act. One way of acting very quickly would be to

:25:11. > :25:14.invest in those days, like women offenders which a non-custodial, it

:25:15. > :25:19.is a community orders, which are better returns in terms of

:25:20. > :25:25.reoffending rates. Will he now commit this money to where it might

:25:26. > :25:30.make a real difference? I welcome him back to the House and thank him

:25:31. > :25:33.for his question. It is good to see him here having had a good

:25:34. > :25:37.relationship with him before. The women justice system is a classic

:25:38. > :25:43.example of where I think there is scope for devolving responsibility

:25:44. > :25:46.and funds. The north of England has had a whole system approach to

:25:47. > :25:51.funding of the last year or two in order to try and build a system

:25:52. > :25:56.where women can be treated holistically, when a team understand

:25:57. > :25:59.each womaned home, situation, partners, relationships, so they can

:26:00. > :26:03.bear down on the number of people who are locked up. In this strategy

:26:04. > :26:06.which will be delivered before the end of this year, I hope that more

:26:07. > :26:11.detailed outline of what I want to do any north-west.... In November

:26:12. > :26:18.last year, the department outlined in the white paper is the most

:26:19. > :26:22.comrades plan for improving our prisons for a generation. MNR to

:26:23. > :26:26.require primary legislation, I would like to see that brought forward in

:26:27. > :26:29.due course. Particularly changing the statutory definition of the

:26:30. > :26:33.purpose of a prison to include rehabilitation and reform, but the

:26:34. > :26:36.bass majority do not. Will he confirm that his department will

:26:37. > :26:44.continue to implement the white paper in full? He is very informed

:26:45. > :26:47.on this, and yes, you are right, the great majority of that reform

:26:48. > :26:52.package that was announced last year can be delivered without any further

:26:53. > :26:56.legislation, and as I have said, I think we have not ruled out primary

:26:57. > :27:02.legislation in this area in the near future. By what they does the

:27:03. > :27:06.minister expect the first people to be entering the new units that he

:27:07. > :27:10.has announced one-off and south? Woody update the Justice committee

:27:11. > :27:14.on the objectives that he has set for improving the situation, and

:27:15. > :27:17.would he agree to look again at the recommendations from lord Toby

:27:18. > :27:23.Harris that the Government did not agree to, when they were reduced

:27:24. > :27:28.early last year? I think he's referring to the secure schools, but

:27:29. > :27:33.currently we are committed to one opening of September 20 19. There is

:27:34. > :27:37.a possibility that being earlier, but it depends upon finding the

:27:38. > :27:41.appropriate site. As you might imagine, the size have to be secure

:27:42. > :27:47.and we are working aged in my heart on that. We are in negotiations with

:27:48. > :27:53.various agencies about particular interest in the London... Assisting

:27:54. > :27:57.us in this, so when we know about the locations, we can be a bit

:27:58. > :28:03.clearer about the delivery date. The wider questions with regards to the

:28:04. > :28:09.state of the justice system, as you can properly tell, I think that we

:28:10. > :28:13.needed to move the was a different system of how we lock up young

:28:14. > :28:18.people. Some young people are going to be locked up and be have an

:28:19. > :28:22.uptake in sexual crimes at the moment, small but coming, and we

:28:23. > :28:26.recognised this, but in manner and way in which we lock up young

:28:27. > :28:31.people, the environment and staffing has to change. We recognise this,

:28:32. > :28:36.this report confirms what we already knew. My intention is to work hard

:28:37. > :28:40.to enforce a plan so that any next ten years we can get to a situation

:28:41. > :28:45.where our young people are not only safe and secure but are also

:28:46. > :28:51.probably the ability. -- the ability did.

:28:52. > :29:00.The additional money this Government has invested in order to discover

:29:01. > :29:07.the mobile phones smuggled into prisons is welcome but would like

:29:08. > :29:10.honourable friend Gillie is is something we need to -- agree this

:29:11. > :29:15.is something we need to continue to monitor and do more to tackle?

:29:16. > :29:22.Yes, we have made real progress here, we are stopping thousands of

:29:23. > :29:27.mobile phones getting into prisons and are working very hard with

:29:28. > :29:32.regards to the use of drones and working hard to block mobile phone

:29:33. > :29:36.signals in prisons. It is not perfect and it is not finished but

:29:37. > :29:42.we are continuing to press hard because if we can reach the point

:29:43. > :29:44.where we have a mobile phone for the prison network this would be

:29:45. > :29:50.fantastic. I look forward to the strategy from

:29:51. > :29:55.an offender is the Minister indicated he would bring forward

:29:56. > :30:01.later this year. 30% of women in custody self harm last year and 12

:30:02. > :30:07.women killed in the highest level since 2004. In reviewing the estate

:30:08. > :30:12.for women will he take the opportunity once and for all to take

:30:13. > :30:17.on board the recommendations for those women who do need to be in

:30:18. > :30:24.custody not to place them in prisons far from the families but in small,

:30:25. > :30:29.secure community units. It's a once opportunity to do this and please

:30:30. > :30:33.will be Minister take take it. The report was one of the first

:30:34. > :30:39.things I read when I was appointed to my role in July 20 16. It has a

:30:40. > :30:43.persuasive case. There is an issue about some woman and where they

:30:44. > :30:47.should be held, I am completely convinced you can go down the path

:30:48. > :30:52.of the woman all being held in community provision residential

:30:53. > :30:55.woman centres but what I am persuaded of is we can reduce the

:30:56. > :31:04.population of woman we currently locked up. This is primarily based

:31:05. > :31:08.upon our way in which we deliver community provision and mental

:31:09. > :31:15.health care, both before, during and after serving in prisons. I have met

:31:16. > :31:20.a number of women in prison, the majority of them have displayed

:31:21. > :31:24.scars of self harm. I am a doctor and I observe these things and it is

:31:25. > :31:28.quite distressing to see this. In order to deal with this problem we

:31:29. > :31:32.need to get the environment in which they are helped changed and get

:31:33. > :31:38.their mental health services improved. These are my two

:31:39. > :31:45.priorities I hope by the end of the year the honourable lady will be

:31:46. > :31:49.reassured we are getting it right. Listening to parents of young

:31:50. > :31:54.offenders has been very eye opening in my constituency surgeries and

:31:55. > :31:58.also to those working at Winchester prison who have seen the impact of

:31:59. > :32:03.people who basically never got out of the prison system so I welcome

:32:04. > :32:09.the focus on the dealing with growing level of violence and focus

:32:10. > :32:13.on youth justice. It's vital we look individually and outcomes. Can I ask

:32:14. > :32:20.the Minister how this new unit can ensure these recommendations

:32:21. > :32:24.actually come forward? The unit the honourable lady refers

:32:25. > :32:26.to has been set up within the Department image of the

:32:27. > :32:31.recommendations are followed. I gather this is the first time it has

:32:32. > :32:36.been created. With youth justice, the key is and also applying to

:32:37. > :32:41.woman justice, can we build a network over time where people are

:32:42. > :32:45.held closer to home so that families can stay in contact, both with young

:32:46. > :32:50.people and also mothers in particular keeping in contact with

:32:51. > :32:55.their children. But as an intention and why I have mapped the country of

:32:56. > :32:59.both women and youth justice in order to make sure what we bring

:33:00. > :33:06.forward fits into that framework to deliver time in prison closer to

:33:07. > :33:09.home for women and young people. There is a grave situation in our

:33:10. > :33:13.prisons and the Minister is being typically frank in acknowledging

:33:14. > :33:19.that. One of the problems is the large cohort of prisoners on

:33:20. > :33:22.indeterminate sentences. Can the Minister confirm the Government is

:33:23. > :33:29.committed to getting that number down as quickly as possible?

:33:30. > :33:38.Yes, this has been a long-running issue in the prison system and the

:33:39. > :33:41.answer is yes. Reoffending rates remain stubbornly

:33:42. > :33:46.high, especially with young offenders, where nearly seven out of

:33:47. > :33:51.ten who are sent to prison go on to reoffend upon release. We know it is

:33:52. > :33:55.to do with the convictions and environment in our prisons and young

:33:56. > :33:58.offenders Institute and what more can be done to ensure effective

:33:59. > :34:07.rehabilitation, especially for young people?

:34:08. > :34:10.The recidivism rate in the youth estate is not acceptable and

:34:11. > :34:12.environment on people's health is not acceptable and in some

:34:13. > :34:16.institutions they are locked up for too long but is primarily related to

:34:17. > :34:25.safety and security of the institution. This must change. There

:34:26. > :34:30.are programmes in place, which show evidence of reducing recidivism

:34:31. > :34:33.rates. I am determined we change the curriculum being delivered in the

:34:34. > :34:40.youth estate and people need to spend more time outside, sporting a

:34:41. > :34:45.particular example. If we do that I think we will achieve what my

:34:46. > :34:53.honourable friend wants to achieve. Finally, by the early next year I

:34:54. > :34:57.plan on bringing out a sports review of the criminal justice system and

:34:58. > :35:03.sport and in particular youth justice and recommendations in that

:35:04. > :35:07.will be interesting to see. Urgent question, Mr Tim Farren. To

:35:08. > :35:12.ask the Secretary of State for the home Department if she will update

:35:13. > :35:21.the house and implementation of section 67 of the migration act

:35:22. > :35:25.2016? The Government is fully committed to

:35:26. > :35:29.helping and supporting the most vulnerable children. We have

:35:30. > :35:33.contributed significantly to hosting and protecting vulnerable children

:35:34. > :35:38.affected by the migration crisis. This is part of our wider response

:35:39. > :35:44.of taking 23,000 people from the region. We already granted asylum or

:35:45. > :35:49.leave to 8000 children, local authorities across the country are

:35:50. > :35:53.supporting over 4000 unaccompanied asylum seeking children. Children

:35:54. > :36:00.transferred under section 67 are being cared for by local authorities

:36:01. > :36:04.across the country. We take our responsibility to those children

:36:05. > :36:08.very seriously and safeguarding them is of paramount importance.

:36:09. > :36:10.Following consultation with local authorities the Government said the

:36:11. > :36:17.number of children to be transferred under the scheme at 480. We invited

:36:18. > :36:21.referrals of legible children from several countries and our officials

:36:22. > :36:25.at the Home Office are visited these countries to put in place processes

:36:26. > :36:30.to further identify transfer of eligible children. In the past week

:36:31. > :36:34.I spoke to my counterpart in Greece and Italy specifically on this issue

:36:35. > :36:40.and will follow up with face-to-face meetings in both cases next week. It

:36:41. > :36:42.is important to remember the processes for transferring children

:36:43. > :36:47.must be implemented in line with each individual member state's

:36:48. > :36:51.national laws and all transfers of children must be carried out safely

:36:52. > :36:56.and with the best interests of the children at the centre of all

:36:57. > :37:00.decisions regarding transfer. The ongoing work to transfer children

:37:01. > :37:04.under section 67 is an addition to our other commitments. We continue

:37:05. > :37:08.to work closely with member states and relevant partners to ensure

:37:09. > :37:12.children with family in the UK can be transferred quickly and safely.

:37:13. > :37:16.Our approach continues to be to take refugees directly from conflict

:37:17. > :37:20.regions, providing refugees with a more direct and safe route to our

:37:21. > :37:24.country rather than risking hazardous journeys to Europe. We are

:37:25. > :37:28.committed to resettling 23,000 people from the region and our

:37:29. > :37:31.resettlement schemes are some of the largest and longest-running schemes

:37:32. > :37:37.in the EU. So far we have resettled more than 7000 people under the

:37:38. > :37:42.resettlement scheme and the vulnerable children resettlement

:37:43. > :37:46.scheme. Children are resettled with family members, thereby discouraged

:37:47. > :37:53.from making perilous journeys alone to do. It is worth noting families

:37:54. > :37:57.continue to arrive from the region. Yesterday at 199 individuals and

:37:58. > :38:03.another 80 are due next week. All part of the Government's approach to

:38:04. > :38:11.helping the most vulnerable. I thank the Minister, it seems those

:38:12. > :38:16.are somewhat hollow words. Before the election the Government promised

:38:17. > :38:21.to transfer 480 refugee children from Europe to the UK, in the other

:38:22. > :38:26.place recently they admitted so far only 200 unaccompanied children have

:38:27. > :38:31.been given sanctuary here. When does this Government expect to fulfil

:38:32. > :38:36.this measly commitment and will be Minister today give us a date? Icy

:38:37. > :38:42.measly because the UK Government could do so much more. Freedom of

:38:43. > :38:48.Information Act request show local councils have voluntarily offered to

:38:49. > :38:52.accept 1572 more children in addition to those they already

:38:53. > :38:57.support. Does the Minister knows this and in light of this will the

:38:58. > :39:03.Government reopen Dubs and take its fair share? As summer approaches

:39:04. > :39:08.more are catering to dangerous crossings across the Mediterranean

:39:09. > :39:14.to reach European shores, more desperate children without anyone

:39:15. > :39:21.looking after them... We cannot have two sets of exchanges taking place.

:39:22. > :39:26.There is a rather unseemly exchange taking place between two members who

:39:27. > :39:30.are gesticulating at the other and an obvious dispute and the mosque

:39:31. > :39:41.harm themselves and listen to the eloquence of the -- they must harm

:39:42. > :39:49.themselves. -- calm. It is understandable that

:39:50. > :39:52.rises passions. As summer approaches more are taking the dangerous

:39:53. > :39:55.crossings across the Mediterranean to reach European shores, more

:39:56. > :39:59.desperate refugee children without anyone looking after them will

:40:00. > :40:07.arrive in Europe and the Government said it will not take or consider

:40:08. > :40:11.taking any child under Dubs arrived after the arbitrary cut-off date of

:40:12. > :40:15.the 20th of March 2000 and 16. In light of the blaze which are the

:40:16. > :40:22.Government's fault will be no extent the state which is as heartless as

:40:23. > :40:27.pointless. I have visited the camps and increase and elsewhere,

:40:28. > :40:32.something neither the Home Secretary Prime Minister have done. I cannot

:40:33. > :40:35.forget what I have seen. I've met those children who, through no fault

:40:36. > :40:40.of their own, find their lives on pause as ministers here choose to

:40:41. > :40:46.ignore them. How many children have been taken from Greece to date is

:40:47. > :40:50.under the Dubs Amendment? Has the UK even signed a memorandum of

:40:51. > :40:54.understanding with Greece to get these transfers under way? I know of

:40:55. > :40:59.two young people who signed a consent form to be transferred under

:41:00. > :41:08.Dubs over a year ago and they are still stuck in Greece. The hollow

:41:09. > :41:11.victories is the longer this goes on -- the perfect thrift is the longer

:41:12. > :41:18.this goes on more likely these children go missing and unlawful to

:41:19. > :41:24.the hands of traffickers will this Government stepped up or continue to

:41:25. > :41:30.ignore the plight of these desperate children?

:41:31. > :41:35.The honourable gentleman points are made on a series of false premises.

:41:36. > :41:41.We have got a range of schemes and are working with 23,000. I would

:41:42. > :41:47.politely say the number he talks about, behind every number, there is

:41:48. > :41:50.a child and what is important is to make sure those children get the

:41:51. > :41:55.support they need in the right time and place. He speaks of timelines

:41:56. > :42:00.but he seems to forget Italy and Greece are nation states and we must

:42:01. > :42:06.work with them run their own minds. I would also point out, he mentioned

:42:07. > :42:10.the request for local authorities which is simply wrong. We consultant

:42:11. > :42:15.with local authorities which is what we said we would do much about the

:42:16. > :42:20.figure of 480 and the Freedom of Information request he spoke of does

:42:21. > :42:24.not recover local authorities can provide, it talks about the 0.7%

:42:25. > :42:28.threshold which is an entirely different calculation so he should

:42:29. > :42:33.go and look at that further. We are clear that making sure we do not

:42:34. > :42:37.create a pool factor but still do the right thing, as we have done

:42:38. > :42:42.with the ?2.46 billion of support, one of the biggest contributors of

:42:43. > :42:48.humanitarian aid we have ever conducted, to look after people

:42:49. > :42:53.needing our help. Instead of playing politics with this we should get on

:42:54. > :42:57.with looking after them. Can I urge the Minister to keep that

:42:58. > :43:02.deadline in place because it is incredibly important we do not

:43:03. > :43:06.encourage any more children or their families to send them off and

:43:07. > :43:09.dangerous journeys. We should continue taking indirectly from the

:43:10. > :43:16.region, directly from the camps were we can make sure they -- directly

:43:17. > :43:21.from the region and if they get to Europe they will be able to stay --

:43:22. > :43:24.if we see they get to Europe and they can stay exactly what

:43:25. > :43:25.encourages the dangerous journeys and will lead to the deaths of

:43:26. > :43:37.children. Has experience on this is absolute

:43:38. > :43:40.right. This is why it is important to remember that there are already

:43:41. > :43:46.some 7000 children brought over to the scheme is that we operate from

:43:47. > :43:50.the region. First of all, and also remind him that the scheme is not

:43:51. > :43:54.close. We are still working. I will be going out next week to speak with

:43:55. > :43:58.ministers from Italy and Greece. It is still operating. It is also

:43:59. > :44:02.important to remember that the people who are most vulnerable I

:44:03. > :44:07.cannot afford to be paying human traffickers are the children in the

:44:08. > :44:13.region and that is where our focus should be, to make sure we do not

:44:14. > :44:16.create a pool factor as he has said. The House understands the

:44:17. > :44:20.Government's preference to take unaccompanied children directly from

:44:21. > :44:24.the region, but I have visited the camps in France and Greece, and the

:44:25. > :44:30.visit -- minister needs to be reminded those children are already

:44:31. > :44:34.there, often living in horrible conditions, and particularly at the

:44:35. > :44:41.mercy of traffickers and sexual exploitation. Will the minister tell

:44:42. > :44:50.the House how many children will come into this country in 2017-18,

:44:51. > :44:54.under section 67? How many children will come to Dublin this year? How

:44:55. > :45:02.long has each case taken an average? And what is the future of close

:45:03. > :45:06.family reunion was we leave the European Union, and will the

:45:07. > :45:11.Government consider expanding the UK immigration rights so that

:45:12. > :45:14.children's rights is in no way diminished, with the Government

:45:15. > :45:23.simply walk away from its moral obligations on the matter? I think

:45:24. > :45:28.the final point of her question does not do her less House on this

:45:29. > :45:32.country justice. We end this country should be proud and councils and

:45:33. > :45:37.charity groups and individuals, particularly the sponsorship scheme

:45:38. > :45:41.with ?1 million, do phenomenal work across this country, welcoming the

:45:42. > :45:44.most vulnerable people here. It is right that we look at people who are

:45:45. > :45:47.the most vulnerable, cannot afford to be paying human traffickers, the

:45:48. > :45:51.Dallas bought out in the region, rather than those who are in

:45:52. > :45:55.European countries. We do have agreements with them, we are still

:45:56. > :45:59.bringing people over, but I were just remind her that these

:46:00. > :46:03.countries, we have to work with them and the laws in their states as

:46:04. > :46:08.well. They are nation states. I would say to her, in terms of what

:46:09. > :46:12.happens afterwards, our position has been clear. The fact that we are

:46:13. > :46:15.running the biggest human caring project country has seen highlights

:46:16. > :46:18.our determination to do the right thing, we will concede to do the

:46:19. > :46:28.right thing and fulfil our moral duty to those who need our most. The

:46:29. > :46:31.words may have more credibility if they acknowledge the huge effort and

:46:32. > :46:36.resources that have gone into this by the British Government to date. I

:46:37. > :46:39.have been to Athens and the niqabs as well, and I see the fantastic

:46:40. > :46:44.work that is being done. However there is a criticism that it is

:46:45. > :46:47.taking too long to get those children properly processed and

:46:48. > :46:53.asset who have a right to be here, and will heal also acknowledge that

:46:54. > :46:56.post Brexit, when we come out of the Dublin scheme, they will be a

:46:57. > :47:00.problem with children underneath family reunion scheme and can be

:47:01. > :47:03.make sure they can still be matched with those relations beyond just

:47:04. > :47:08.parents, because many of them have lost their parents but do have

:47:09. > :47:14.siblings in this country with whom they could be safely and

:47:15. > :47:22.appropriately placed? I appreciate his point. He is explain in what he

:47:23. > :47:28.saw, I said I would be go out myself next week. It is worth bearing in

:47:29. > :47:32.mind looking at how we are helping people, the finance and focus, we

:47:33. > :47:36.should be proud of that as a country. We should remember that for

:47:37. > :47:41.every 3000 people that we bring over and help, we could be helping

:47:42. > :47:46.800,000 people out in the regions. We had to be clear about where we

:47:47. > :47:52.put our focus. But they said to the honourable lady, and have got post

:47:53. > :47:55.Brexit, we want to continue the right thing for people who are in

:47:56. > :47:58.those viable situations in the region and we will be working to

:47:59. > :48:06.deliver that and I are happy to work with him on that. I would like to

:48:07. > :48:09.congratulate the right Honourable member for Lonsdale, make it clear

:48:10. > :48:13.to the minister that what he said was not based on false premises. I

:48:14. > :48:17.am able to say this because I attended the launch of a report by

:48:18. > :48:21.the human trafficking foundation last week, following an independent

:48:22. > :48:25.enquiry into the situation of unaccompanied minors in Europe. This

:48:26. > :48:30.independent enquiry has found that UK ministers have done, I quote, as

:48:31. > :48:34.little as legally possible to help unaccompanied children who have fled

:48:35. > :48:38.war and conflict in their home. It says the UK Government have, I

:48:39. > :48:41.quote, turned away from a Germanic in a crisis that would not be

:48:42. > :48:45.tolerable to the British public if they were more aware of it, and that

:48:46. > :48:51.by failing to offer safe passage, the UK Government are, and I quote,

:48:52. > :48:55.unquestionably fuelling both people trafficking and smuggling. These are

:48:56. > :48:58.not my words, they are the findings of an independent enquiry. What is

:48:59. > :49:03.the minister going to do about it? And there is no point in shouting at

:49:04. > :49:06.me, because the minister and his colleagues do not like the findings

:49:07. > :49:11.of an independent enquiry. The British public deserve to know about

:49:12. > :49:16.this. What steps is the Government taking to resolve the blockages in

:49:17. > :49:20.the transfer of children that we voted for in this House last year,

:49:21. > :49:27.thinking there would be 3000 transfers, when do they expect those

:49:28. > :49:30.transfers to begin? Goals the transfers have already been

:49:31. > :49:36.happening. We are determined to deliver what we set out. As part of

:49:37. > :49:39.the 23,000 people, we are bringing over 7000 children already. I

:49:40. > :49:44.actually would encourage more people to have a look at what she refers to

:49:45. > :49:47.as an independent report, where one of the co-authors is a recently

:49:48. > :49:53.retired Labour member of Parliament. I read the report and I would

:49:54. > :49:58.encourage people to read it. It is they had a lot of accusations and

:49:59. > :50:11.statements with no evidence. I do disagree with the report but my

:50:12. > :50:15.point are based... Still stands. As well as accepting refugees into this

:50:16. > :50:19.country, it is also the case that the United Kingdom is the second

:50:20. > :50:23.largest donor to the crisis behind the United States, it has given more

:50:24. > :50:28.than the rest of the EU combined. I support the Government having a

:50:29. > :50:31.holistic conference of approach, and will he continue to commit the

:50:32. > :50:36.Government to providing the right help in the right places? Goals he

:50:37. > :50:39.is absolutely right, it is important. We are focusing helped

:50:40. > :50:43.numerous possible most lovable and places that need that aboard, while

:50:44. > :50:46.doing what we can as part of our work with the partners across Europe

:50:47. > :50:54.has bought those we have agreed as a bought and we will continue to do

:50:55. > :50:58.so. The minister knows it is not an easy helping children in imaging and

:50:59. > :51:03.those in Europe, and those that are here. Parliament told the Government

:51:04. > :51:06.to help low child refugees from Europe when it passed the Dubs

:51:07. > :51:11.Amendment last year. I know the Government did not want to agree to

:51:12. > :51:15.it, but it was passed. The way in which they have narrowed the

:51:16. > :51:19.criteria, dragged their feet, failed to even counter the Council officers

:51:20. > :51:24.properly, is shameful. Will he confirm that they have only helped

:51:25. > :51:30.around 200 children to the amendment, despite the fact that

:51:31. > :51:33.councils have offered nearly 500 places, confirmed that there are

:51:34. > :51:37.tens of thousand children refugees still alone in Europe and Italy and

:51:38. > :51:41.Greece cannot cope with what they are having to deal with. All he has

:51:42. > :51:44.managed to do it said a view officials to Italy and Greece to try

:51:45. > :51:48.and read a few procedures for the future, when this has been going on

:51:49. > :51:52.for years, is frankly shameful. I would say to him, stop with the warm

:51:53. > :51:55.words about helping the most vulnerable children and actually get

:51:56. > :52:04.on with it as Parliament said they should. The number of children we

:52:05. > :52:08.can help I have been clear, giving them the right support. They need

:52:09. > :52:12.the support network to BN ported and valued member of our community. It

:52:13. > :52:15.is important we do that within what local authorities can actually

:52:16. > :52:18.provide. With the restrictions they have got, the capacity they have,

:52:19. > :52:23.that is what we're doing, to make sure they get the right support. In

:52:24. > :52:30.2016, we did grab asylum or some form of leave over 8000 children,

:52:31. > :52:34.and since 2010 some 42,000 children, so we are doing a bit and we want to

:52:35. > :52:37.continue doing that work. I would say to her, in terms of what we're

:52:38. > :52:42.doing with other countries, they have a own rules and regulations,

:52:43. > :52:46.I'm sure she will appreciate that we do have to work with them about what

:52:47. > :52:50.works for them with their laws, we will continue to do that, and that

:52:51. > :52:57.is why visiting Italy and Greece next week. I know everybody is

:52:58. > :53:00.incredibly passionate about this, but I would hope collectively we can

:53:01. > :53:04.be proud of what the country as a whole has contributed to the refugee

:53:05. > :53:10.crisis in Syria. It is tremendous. Visiting the camps does rather shift

:53:11. > :53:13.your perception about how the picture forms of all. I know the

:53:14. > :53:16.Government and I have different views on the amendment and I still

:53:17. > :53:22.maintain their is more capacity available in our councils and more

:53:23. > :53:26.capacity in our country to help. I am particularly concerned as we move

:53:27. > :53:29.towards this brave new Brexit world what will happen to the Dublin

:53:30. > :53:35.three, family children have continue Canis yet? And how Abbey go to make

:53:36. > :53:43.sure that those pieces of legislation are embedded in our own

:53:44. > :53:46.laws will relieve the EU? Goals I take around local authorities and we

:53:47. > :53:51.were treated to work with them, the numbers we have a based on the

:53:52. > :53:56.numbers they have given us. We were treated to look at the numbers that

:53:57. > :53:59.they feed in, in order to deal with children who come over to the

:54:00. > :54:04.schemes and commitments that we have got. In terms of going forward, I

:54:05. > :54:08.can give her the reassurance that we are determined to make sure we

:54:09. > :54:13.fulfil our commitment, as they go through the negotiations of leaving

:54:14. > :54:19.the EU, exactly what format that will take in terms of technically,

:54:20. > :54:23.it is too soon to say, but we are determined to stick with the moral

:54:24. > :54:31.and ethical duty that we have participated in a continue to

:54:32. > :54:37.provide that support. I think he gets the message, the whole House

:54:38. > :54:40.once this process to be enacted as speedily as possible. Can I take him

:54:41. > :54:46.back to one of the points made by the Honourable member for Westbrook

:54:47. > :54:49.-- Lonsdale, but the Mediterranean crisis and the summer crisis that

:54:50. > :54:58.will unfurl to? What additional help is being given to enable those who

:54:59. > :55:04.have some responsibility in Libya to prevent boats being set off onto the

:55:05. > :55:06.Mediterranean which will only result in people buying, especially

:55:07. > :55:14.children, before they reach the mainland? Goals as always with his

:55:15. > :55:17.vast experience in this area, he makes an important point. It is

:55:18. > :55:22.important that in this discussion we do not lose sight of what is

:55:23. > :55:27.happening and continues to happen in the Mediterranean. We are contained

:55:28. > :55:31.to work with member state authorities, including the UNC are,

:55:32. > :55:34.and other NGOs, to agree what more we can do to look at what is

:55:35. > :55:38.happening in our region. The Prime Minister made up own statement after

:55:39. > :55:42.last EU Council meeting. We'll continue to deliver on that to make

:55:43. > :55:47.sure we do not rate a cool factor, give a clear message that that

:55:48. > :55:53.journey is one that people should not conduct, and that is my wee

:55:54. > :55:58.continue that phenomenal work we do, along with the ?10 million money

:55:59. > :56:02.that is coming to to work with people in the regions to make sure

:56:03. > :56:12.we make things that are safe and as flexible possible. As he has set

:56:13. > :56:17.out, tackling this problem at source and tackling the carpeting is a real

:56:18. > :56:21.crucial part of addressing this, and I wonder if he could perhaps outline

:56:22. > :56:25.briefly what the British security services and police are doing,

:56:26. > :56:28.together with European counterparts, to track down and arrest and

:56:29. > :56:32.prosecute those people traffickers who wish to profit directly from

:56:33. > :56:40.exploiting the situation that we face. It is important we continue to

:56:41. > :56:47.give a clear message to the atrocious and completely disgraceful

:56:48. > :56:51.traffickers out there who continue to supply a despicable trade. The

:56:52. > :56:55.smuggling said there was formed in February this year in response to

:56:56. > :56:59.the increase in the number of regular migrants, and we do tend to

:57:00. > :57:03.work with our partners and our national crime agency to focus and

:57:04. > :57:06.drive out that that form of trafficking as well as organised

:57:07. > :57:18.crime that drives around this, and has been a clear message at every

:57:19. > :57:21.stage. That behaviour needs to end. As the minister will know, from the

:57:22. > :57:25.response of the High Court to the judicial review of how the

:57:26. > :57:31.consultation on the places available for children are available in the

:57:32. > :57:35.UK, section 67 is explicitly about families in Europe. Can I ask him

:57:36. > :57:40.about a acidic case that I wrote to his office about over a week ago,

:57:41. > :57:43.involving an incredibly vulnerable Syrian family who are in Leila, who

:57:44. > :57:48.had been wrongfully refused a right to come to the UK under the Dublin

:57:49. > :57:52.regulations, I have not yet had an acknowledgement from his office of

:57:53. > :57:56.that receipt of correspondence, will he agreed to meet with me to review

:57:57. > :57:59.this case urgently of a suicidal mother and her young children, and

:58:00. > :58:03.discuss how we can better approve the way which people claim asylum

:58:04. > :58:09.and come to the UK, so it is not just the smugglers who beat them in

:58:10. > :58:14.Calais? Goals I would say to her, the seat she will appreciate I

:58:15. > :58:19.cannot cause comment on a particular case today. I will find out why she

:58:20. > :58:26.has not had a response and get one to her as soon as possible. Last

:58:27. > :58:30.week I visited the refugee camp on the Syrian border, and it was quite

:58:31. > :58:34.clear to us speaking to the parents that they did not want their peers

:58:35. > :58:39.to risk their lives across the sea. They would do so if there were no

:58:40. > :58:44.jobs or education for them. With the minister agree with me that it is

:58:45. > :58:47.thanks to the UK Governmented aid contribution that we are able to

:58:48. > :58:56.keep people well and safe in their own region rather than risking the

:58:57. > :59:03.squalor any European cans? Goals he -- goals this is important why we

:59:04. > :59:07.continue this work in the region. As well as the Government, and making

:59:08. > :59:11.sure we do everything we can to help people in the region and deal with

:59:12. > :59:14.the challenges at source, to avoid people taking not just that chance

:59:15. > :59:16.to come to places that are not appropriate, but to take that

:59:17. > :59:25.treacherous journey and give profit you should traffickers in the first

:59:26. > :59:29.place. I am to be an unpaid director for the human trafficking

:59:30. > :59:32.foundation, which will appear shortly register of members

:59:33. > :59:37.interests. Can I just ask the minister of he would say to Tory

:59:38. > :59:44.controlled Nottinghamshire County Council who on Monday suspended

:59:45. > :59:46.support for unaccompanied children, despite having places available,

:59:47. > :59:51.with one of the senior counsellor saying it is because these children

:59:52. > :59:54.come here of the own collision? Is that not a disgrace and is it not

:59:55. > :59:59.also a disgrace that they have turned round and blamed the

:00:00. > :00:03.Government? Isn't it about time that the minister got his act together

:00:04. > :00:08.with his Tory colleagues and stopped unaccompanied children fleeing war

:00:09. > :00:14.and persecution from playing the consequences of what is this

:00:15. > :00:16.disastrous Government policy? I congratulate the Honourable

:00:17. > :00:20.gentleman in the role he is taking up and I look for to working with

:00:21. > :00:27.him to make sure we will agreed to drive up the human trafficking

:00:28. > :00:34.completely. In terms of a particular case, I learned many years ago that

:00:35. > :00:37.I made pleased a Conservative to convert the county council, but I

:00:38. > :00:41.did learn many years ago at his dispatch box to make sure that I

:00:42. > :00:44.understand the full details of any particular case on both sides of the

:00:45. > :00:51.story before I comment on it. I will look into it before I comment any

:00:52. > :00:53.further what he has outlined. Contrary to the observation by the

:00:54. > :00:58.Right Honourable gentleman opposite who said that these were hollow

:00:59. > :01:04.words, it is a generous response by this Government and a typically

:01:05. > :01:08.British response to this crisis. Could he confirm the number of

:01:09. > :01:15.refugees that this currently is helping and compare that to other EU

:01:16. > :01:21.states? Goals he makes a good point, if we look at this week alone with

:01:22. > :01:27.the launch of funding we are taking out any support project. Seeing some

:01:28. > :01:30.of the phenomenal work people have done in those communities,

:01:31. > :01:33.developing and learning from our colleagues around the world, such as

:01:34. > :01:36.Canada, and I appreciate the time the Canadian minister took to talk

:01:37. > :01:41.about that. But last year alone we were the highest, took more than

:01:42. > :01:44.anybody else in Europe, we should be proud of that. But we're clear we

:01:45. > :01:48.wanted another that develop it and we should be proud of those 23,000

:01:49. > :01:52.people who reality to bring over to make sure we're helping the most

:01:53. > :01:53.voluble, including thousands of children who have already come over

:01:54. > :02:08.and those will continue to come. The minister will have on his desk

:02:09. > :02:12.petitions from St Matthew's primary School and Moss Bank constituency,

:02:13. > :02:16.asking to respect the rights of all EU children and in particular to

:02:17. > :02:19.respect their right to an education, what assessment is he really making

:02:20. > :02:22.of the quality and experience of education that children are getting

:02:23. > :02:26.in camp? And isn't it time we brought children here to settle them

:02:27. > :02:32.and ensure that they have the chance to develop a happy and successful

:02:33. > :02:34.childhood? Well I think what the honourable lady is outline something

:02:35. > :02:38.agreeing with the point I made earlier. The work we are doing is

:02:39. > :02:41.with the local authorities to make sure when children come over they

:02:42. > :02:44.are able to be given the right support and right home that they

:02:45. > :02:47.deserve, to help them be an important part of the community to

:02:48. > :02:58.give them at that fruitful and fulfilling life. Is the minister

:02:59. > :03:03.aware that unaccompanied minors are congregating again in and around

:03:04. > :03:09.Calais but without the camps being there, so even less resources, safe

:03:10. > :03:12.passage for refugees are looking for a cross-party group of MPs to go

:03:13. > :03:17.there perhaps next month. Perhaps the minister would like to go there

:03:18. > :03:20.himself and explain what he and his French counterpart are doing to

:03:21. > :03:25.ensure that children with rights under Dublin or Dubs are coming to

:03:26. > :03:29.this country for safety, rather than being on the streets of Calais?

:03:30. > :03:33.Well, I would say to the honourable gentleman, not only have I made with

:03:34. > :03:37.Safe Passage myself and explained a different view what I saw in Calais

:03:38. > :03:40.ten days ago and discussing this with thor authorities and operators

:03:41. > :03:46.out there. -- with the authorities. ! What many of us don't understand

:03:47. > :03:54.is why the Government chose to put a limit on the Dubs scheme based on a

:03:55. > :03:57.rather half baked consultation with local authorities at one particular

:03:58. > :04:00.time. Why doesn't the Government continue to engage with local

:04:01. > :04:02.authorities and take proactive steps to increase their capacity to take

:04:03. > :04:05.unaccompanied children, including implementing fully-funded places?

:04:06. > :04:08.Well, I would just say to the honourable gentleman, I actually

:04:09. > :04:11.make a couple of points in response, that's what the amendment itself and

:04:12. > :04:16.legislation itself said we should do. I will come back to the point I

:04:17. > :04:19.made a few times: It is important that when we bring people over,

:04:20. > :04:22.families, people and obviously most importantly vulnerable children that

:04:23. > :04:27.we are able to do that knowing that there is the facilities there and

:04:28. > :04:33.capacity to give them the best start in life. I come back to the point I

:04:34. > :04:36.made earlier. Yes people will want to play politics and some opposite,

:04:37. > :04:40.play politics with numbers, the reality is there is a child behind

:04:41. > :04:45.every number and we need to make sure if we are bringing children

:04:46. > :04:49.over we should give them the best possible start. He should be proud

:04:50. > :04:52.of the fag as I outlined to the Scottish minister that we have

:04:53. > :04:56.already granted asylum or some other form of leave to over 8,000 children

:04:57. > :05:01.already. Thank you, Mr Speaker, Europol have estimated that more

:05:02. > :05:04.than 10,000 unaccompanied child refugees have disappeared in Europe

:05:05. > :05:10.in the last two years, what steps are the Government taking to address

:05:11. > :05:12.this and to support our EU partners in improving protection for

:05:13. > :05:17.unaccompanied children at risk of trafficking or exploitation? Well,

:05:18. > :05:21.there are two sides to this. Obviously first, making sure we do

:05:22. > :05:23.not create a pull factor that encourages more children and people

:05:24. > :05:27.and individuals to take a treacherous journey and at the same

:05:28. > :05:31.time, simply helping the profits of traffickers that we all want to see,

:05:32. > :05:34.hopefully, driven out but it is working with partners and the

:05:35. > :05:38.National Crime Agency and their work with Europol to make sure we track

:05:39. > :05:45.down and catch the people who create these kind of awful crimes.

:05:46. > :05:48.Organisations like Refugee ee in Glasgow are doing a great teal Deal

:05:49. > :05:52.to welcome asylum seekers and refugees to Glasgow but what can the

:05:53. > :05:56.Government could do to ensure there's cad quite funding for local

:05:57. > :06:00.authorities sow that those arriving with knowing can live a life with

:06:01. > :06:04.dignity. I would say to the honourable lady, there is really

:06:05. > :06:09.good work being done in glass ge. I met with the Scottish minute step

:06:10. > :06:16.and had that conversation last week. We are seeing that work being done

:06:17. > :06:21.by a local a number of slowingal authorities. It comes back to the

:06:22. > :06:24.point I have made, we are working with local authorities to make sure

:06:25. > :06:28.we have the capacity when people come over, so that the authorities

:06:29. > :06:32.have the abilities it give them the right start in life and protection

:06:33. > :06:35.and safety that they deserve. THE SPEAKER: Order, as the right

:06:36. > :06:40.honourable member prepares to step down from the Leadership of his

:06:41. > :06:44.party, I thank him, not only for his question today but for his,

:06:45. > :06:48.unfailing courtesy and for his personal support for the Chair over

:06:49. > :06:56.a very long period for which I have reason to be very grateful. Geoff

:06:57. > :07:07.Hoon point of order Mr Speaker, you will know on page 448 of etch

:07:08. > :07:13.rskine, May it says it is not in order to refer to people in the

:07:14. > :07:17.galleries. It goes is back to an old proposition but in our time it has

:07:18. > :07:23.been strictly enforced but in recent years, lots of people refer to

:07:24. > :07:27.people in the galry. I thought it was particularly nice when my

:07:28. > :07:30.honourable friend for Battersea the other day referred to her mother in

:07:31. > :07:35.the gallery and paid tribute to her in the maiden speech and the Prime

:07:36. > :07:40.Minister referred to people in the gallery and sometimes we refer to

:07:41. > :07:43.international guests, isn't it time, now we completely and utterly got

:07:44. > :07:45.rid of this rather silly, old-fashioned rule? The honourable

:07:46. > :07:47.gentleman is not for the first time spot on. The prohibition on

:07:48. > :07:51.reference to those attending our proceedings, let me say it capedly

:07:52. > :07:56.no longer applies, it dates back to a time when the act of noticing such

:07:57. > :07:59.attendance led to the galleries being cleared since public

:08:00. > :08:04.attendance was not, in formal terms, allowed for at all. For some time I

:08:05. > :08:10.have not sought to enforce the rule, nor to the best of my knowledge and

:08:11. > :08:14.understanding has it been enforced in Westminster Hall. I hope that

:08:15. > :08:20.members are adapting gently to this new regime. Reference to visitors

:08:21. > :08:25.must be brief and, importantly, directly related to proceedings. And

:08:26. > :08:31.such references should not be phrased so as to be in anyway

:08:32. > :08:39.intimidating or to seek to influence debate. I hope that that is helpful.

:08:40. > :08:42.The House's guidance, including Erskine May, will be, gradually,

:08:43. > :08:48.updated, to reflect this change. I hope that is helpful. Can I just say

:08:49. > :08:53.to the House, I know there are other members who have a desire it raise

:08:54. > :08:58.points of order. I would rather not take further points of order now. We

:08:59. > :09:01.ordinarily take points of order after statements. And I see no good

:09:02. > :09:07.reason to change that practice today. I took this particular point

:09:08. > :09:11.of order because I thought it best that I should be here in the Chair,

:09:12. > :09:17.and the honourable gentleman was here, I'm about to leave and the

:09:18. > :09:20.Chairman of Ways science a means will chair the pensions statement,

:09:21. > :09:25.towards the end of which I will return and members who are poised

:09:26. > :09:32.and perched ready to raise their points of order on other matters can

:09:33. > :09:42.do so at that time. Order. We come now to a statement by the Secretary

:09:43. > :09:44.of State for Work and Pensions, Secretary, David Gauk. With

:09:45. > :09:50.permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to make a statement on

:09:51. > :09:54.pensions. Last year, the Government commissioned the Government be a

:09:55. > :09:58.tour rain John Cridland CBE to produce independent reports to

:09:59. > :10:03.inform the first review of the state pension age required under the 2014

:10:04. > :10:06.Pensions Act. I'm grateful to Mr Cridland for his contribution in

:10:07. > :10:08.producing a thorough and comprehensive review. Over the

:10:09. > :10:14.course of his review, evidence was put forward by a wide range of

:10:15. > :10:19.people and organisations, and I'm grateful to everyone who took the

:10:20. > :10:23.time to engage. Today I am publishing the Government's report

:10:24. > :10:26.on this ro review. Mr Deputy Speaker, on this review. Mr Deputy

:10:27. > :10:30.Speaker, this Government is determined to deliver dignity and

:10:31. > :10:32.fairness in retirement, fairness across the generations and the

:10:33. > :10:37.certainty on which people need it plan for old age. In the report I'm

:10:38. > :10:43.setting out how we will achieve these things. As part of this

:10:44. > :10:46.publication we have set out a coherent strategy targeted at

:10:47. > :10:50.strengthening and sustaining the UK's pension system for many decades

:10:51. > :10:52.to could. This is about the Government taking responsibility

:10:53. > :10:55.action in response to growing demographic and fiscal pressures.

:10:56. > :10:59.That is why today I am announcing the Government's intention to accept

:11:00. > :11:05.the key recommendation of the Cridland Review and increase the

:11:06. > :11:14.state pension age from 67 to 68, over two years, from 2037.

:11:15. > :11:19.This brings forward the increase by seven years, from its legislated

:11:20. > :11:23.date of 2024-46 in recommendation made by John Cridland and following

:11:24. > :11:27.careful consideration on the evidence of life expectancy,

:11:28. > :11:31.fairness and public finances. In 1948, Mr Deputy Speaker, when the

:11:32. > :11:37.modern state pension was introduced, a 65-year-old could expect to live

:11:38. > :11:42.for a further 13-and-a-half years. By 2007, bhen further legislation

:11:43. > :11:47.was introduced to increase the state pension age this had risen to around

:11:48. > :11:54.21 years and in 2037 it is expected to be nearly 25 years. As the

:11:55. > :11:59.Cridland review makes clear, the increase in life expectancy are to

:12:00. > :12:04.be celebrated and I want it make clear that even under the timetable

:12:05. > :12:08.for the riets I'm announcing today. Future pensioners can still expect

:12:09. > :12:11.to spend on average, more than 22 years in receipt of the state

:12:12. > :12:13.pension. But increasing longevity also presents challenges to the

:12:14. > :12:17.Government. There is a balance to be struck between funding of the state

:12:18. > :12:22.pension in years to come, whilst also ensuring fairness for future

:12:23. > :12:26.generations of tax payers. The approach I'm setting out today is

:12:27. > :12:30.the responsible and fair course of action. Failing to act now, in light

:12:31. > :12:33.of compelling evidence of demographic pressures would be

:12:34. > :12:37.irresponsible and place an extremely unfair burden on younger

:12:38. > :12:40.generations. While an ageing population means state pension

:12:41. > :12:43.spending will rise under any of the possible time tables we have

:12:44. > :12:52.considered, the action we are taking reduces this rise by 0.4% of GDP, in

:12:53. > :12:56.2039-40. This is equivalent to a saving of prned ?400 per household

:12:57. > :13:03.based on the number of households today. Our proposed timetable will

:13:04. > :13:10.save ?74 billion to 2045-46 when compared to current plans and more

:13:11. > :13:16.than ?250 billion to 2045-46 when compared with capping the rise in

:13:17. > :13:21.state pension age at of 66 in 2020, as the party opposite haved a

:13:22. > :13:25.vericated. It is the duty of -- advocated. It is the duty of the

:13:26. > :13:29.Government to keep the state pension age sustainal and maintain fairness

:13:30. > :13:33.between generations. That's why the Government is aiming for the

:13:34. > :13:39.proportion of adult life spent in receipt of state pension to be up to

:13:40. > :13:43.32%. This is a fair deal for current and future pensioners. We will carry

:13:44. > :13:48.out a further review before legislating to bring forward the

:13:49. > :13:55.rise in state pension age in to 68, to take into consideration the

:13:56. > :13:59.latest life expecty projection and allow tow evaluate the rises in

:14:00. > :14:03.state pension ages under way. This Government has a proven track

:14:04. > :14:06.recorded on helping people plan for retirement, alongside our automatic

:14:07. > :14:09.inrollment scheme that has brought the benefit of private pensions to

:14:10. > :14:20.nearly 10 million since its inception. We have also set out

:14:21. > :14:23.plans to enhance the availability of consumer vice and the pensions

:14:24. > :14:27.dashboard. Today people have a much better idea of what their pension

:14:28. > :14:31.will be, bringing more certainty and clarity and this is something the

:14:32. > :14:34.Government will build on, making it easier for people it seek advice and

:14:35. > :14:44.making effective financial decisions.

:14:45. > :14:52.We need to ensure that the costs of an ageing population a shared out

:14:53. > :14:55.finally -- fairly without placing an fair tax burden on future

:14:56. > :14:58.generations. We need to make responsible choices on the state

:14:59. > :15:08.pension age and that is exactly what the government is doing today. I

:15:09. > :15:14.thank the Secretary of State for the statement and having sight of that

:15:15. > :15:20.30 minutes ago. Yesterday a renowned expert on life expectancy has

:15:21. > :15:26.described how a century long rise in life expectancy has ground to a halt

:15:27. > :15:30.since 2010. When the government began its failing austerity

:15:31. > :15:32.programme. We have seen how deep inequalities and healthy life

:15:33. > :15:37.expectancy remained regionally and between different groups in our

:15:38. > :15:43.society, including women, disabled people and black and minority ethnic

:15:44. > :15:46.groups. It is astonishing that today the government chooses to implement

:15:47. > :15:52.its plans to speed up the state pension age and increase it to 68.

:15:53. > :15:59.Most pensioners will now spend their retirement battling a toxic cocktail

:16:00. > :16:05.of ill-health, with men expecting to drift into ill-health at 63, five

:16:06. > :16:10.years earlier than this proposed quickened state pension age of 68,

:16:11. > :16:15.while women expect to see signs of ill-health that 64. This national

:16:16. > :16:21.picture masks even worse regional inequalities. If you live in

:16:22. > :16:25.Nottingham men are likely to suffer in health from 57, in 11 years

:16:26. > :16:31.earlier than this government shortened plan. The government talks

:16:32. > :16:36.about making pensions fairer but whether it is the injustice that

:16:37. > :16:40.1950s born women are facing today's proposal to increase the SB8 268 is

:16:41. > :16:44.anything but fair. The government claims it is young people who have

:16:45. > :16:47.to bear the burden of the state pension, in fact it is the young

:16:48. > :16:54.people who will have to bear the burden of the CAP that they are

:16:55. > :16:58.facing already, education, housing, social security, and less extensions

:16:59. > :17:02.to the state pension age. Sadly, like much of the policy platform,

:17:03. > :17:13.the conservative approach to this matter appears to have changed

:17:14. > :17:15.little since their election manifesto. At that time they

:17:16. > :17:17.promised to ensure the state pension age reflects increases in the life

:17:18. > :17:19.expectancy, while protecting generations fairly. How does this

:17:20. > :17:22.make the promise made in the manifesto given the evidence of life

:17:23. > :17:32.expectancy that we have seen in the last week. The DUP had a manifesto

:17:33. > :17:36.that promised advocating for older people. Perhaps, like the pensions

:17:37. > :17:40.minister astonishingly suggested in the debate earlier this month, the

:17:41. > :17:45.government will force people in their mid-60s to seek out an

:17:46. > :17:49.apprenticeship. A constituent of mine, hearing the suggestion,

:17:50. > :17:54.visited our local job centre only to find the adviser had no idea of any

:17:55. > :17:58.apprenticeship support or government employment support available to a

:17:59. > :18:03.woman of her age. The pensions minister proposition was not one

:18:04. > :18:05.shared by Mr Crichlow and who suggested the Social Security system

:18:06. > :18:10.must be able to support those who find themselves unable to work.

:18:11. > :18:14.Perhaps it was unaware of the seven years of slash and burn policy on

:18:15. > :18:20.our social security system, the so-called safety net is increasingly

:18:21. > :18:23.inadequate, driving up pensioner poverty by 300,000. Labour want a

:18:24. > :18:29.different approach. In our manifesto we have committed to leaving the

:18:30. > :18:34.state pension age at 66 while we undertake a review into healthy life

:18:35. > :18:38.expectancy, arduous work, and the potential of a flexible state

:18:39. > :18:41.pension age. An evidence -based approach to build a state pension

:18:42. > :18:45.system that brings security for the many and not just the privileged

:18:46. > :18:56.few, so we can all enjoy a healthy retirement. Even by the standards of

:18:57. > :19:03.the party opposite their approach to the state pension age is reckless,

:19:04. > :19:08.short-sighted and irresponsible. When the evidence in front of us

:19:09. > :19:13.shows that life expectancy will continue to increase a little over

:19:14. > :19:21.one year every eight years that pass, fixing the state pension age

:19:22. > :19:25.at 66 adds advocated by the party opposite demonstrates a complete

:19:26. > :19:30.failure to appreciate the situation in front of us. Compared to the

:19:31. > :19:36.timetable set out by this government, it will add ?250 billion

:19:37. > :19:43.to national debt. Let us put that in context. That is almost twice as

:19:44. > :19:47.much as was dispersed into the financial sector following the

:19:48. > :19:53.financial crisis. Let us put it another way. Spending in 2040 under

:19:54. > :19:58.their plans on the state pension would be ?20 billion a year higher

:19:59. > :20:02.than under the plans we are setting up. That is almost twice the Home

:20:03. > :20:14.Office budget. Where on earth is this money coming from? Even the

:20:15. > :20:17.last... Order. In fairness, I want to hear both sides in order to make

:20:18. > :20:22.a judgment but I am finding it very hard to hear the Minister. It is, in

:20:23. > :20:26.fairness, reply to the Shadow Minister, so I think we should all

:20:27. > :20:30.be able to hear the answer. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, even under

:20:31. > :20:33.the last Labour government, not known for its fiscal rectitude, they

:20:34. > :20:39.legislated to increase the state pension age to 68, and yet, on top

:20:40. > :20:44.of a long list of unaffordable spending pledges, the Labour Party

:20:45. > :20:49.happily makes pledges on the state pension that they must know will

:20:50. > :20:53.cause unsustainable damage to the public finances. The facts are,

:20:54. > :20:58.based on the most up-to-date evidence, and clearly set out in the

:20:59. > :21:03.government actuary 's report as well as this report, life expectancy is

:21:04. > :21:10.going up. Healthy life expectancy at the age of 65 is also going up and

:21:11. > :21:16.the government has to face up to this long-term challenge not pretend

:21:17. > :21:21.that it doesn't exist. We should celebrate increased life expectancy,

:21:22. > :21:25.but it has consequences for fiscal sustainability that cannot be

:21:26. > :21:30.ignored. The John Cridland review is a serious piece of work with a clear

:21:31. > :21:35.recommendation in terms of the pension age. In contrast to the

:21:36. > :21:41.party opposite we will act responsibly and accept that

:21:42. > :21:46.recommendation. Iain Duncan Smith. I commend this statement. It used to

:21:47. > :21:50.be the case that the Labour Party worked on a consensual basis on the

:21:51. > :21:56.facts, and they now have departed from that. He is aware that we have

:21:57. > :22:00.a proud track record in reform, automatic enrolment, the single

:22:01. > :22:03.tier, we got rid of the retirement age where people were forced to

:22:04. > :22:07.retire when they did not want to, so it is a side that has a proud

:22:08. > :22:11.record. Can I say to him that the single figure that stands out

:22:12. > :22:16.starkly from this review is the fact that if we do nothing about this it

:22:17. > :22:22.will cost ?250 billion more. That is not just a figure, it is a figure

:22:23. > :22:27.that will be borne by future generations as they have to pay

:22:28. > :22:31.excessive money is. Considering that the Labour Party at the last

:22:32. > :22:34.election promise to get rid of the student debt, and now renege on

:22:35. > :22:40.that, doesn't he think they will be doing the same very shortly on this

:22:41. > :22:43.one? I thank my right honourable friend for his question. He makes a

:22:44. > :22:47.very good point about the work that this government has done over the

:22:48. > :22:52.last seven years in terms of Fallot working lives and helping more

:22:53. > :22:55.people to work longer. My right honourable friend has a proud

:22:56. > :23:01.personal record in what he did as secretary of state on that point. He

:23:02. > :23:06.is absolutely right to highlight the responsibility of the position that

:23:07. > :23:09.the Labour Party had at the last election, just as they have walked

:23:10. > :23:13.away from a deeply irresponsible issue on student debt, I hope they

:23:14. > :23:19.will walk away from a deeply irresponsible position on the state

:23:20. > :23:24.pension age. I would like to thank the Minister for the statement. I

:23:25. > :23:28.can see why the Department for Work and Pensions did not want to publish

:23:29. > :23:32.this by the legal data was supposed to buy made the seventh because this

:23:33. > :23:37.would undoubtedly have lost the Conservatives even more seats than

:23:38. > :23:42.the ones they have lost already. In the SNP we oppose plans to raise the

:23:43. > :23:46.state pension age above 66. We also have concerns about the fact that

:23:47. > :23:52.the government have chosen the 32%, rather than the 33.3%, which was the

:23:53. > :23:57.more gentle scenario presented within the Cridland review. I am

:23:58. > :24:07.lucky enough to be a few days inside the 69 group, so we get to retire at

:24:08. > :24:12.69 rather than 70, which will happen if the full extent of this review is

:24:13. > :24:15.covered. We continue to call for the establishment of independent savings

:24:16. > :24:19.and pension commission. We believe that the government is not doing

:24:20. > :24:21.enough to recognise the demographic differences across the United

:24:22. > :24:29.Kingdom and an independent review of this would look at those and would

:24:30. > :24:32.take those into full account. Well, of course John Cridland looked at

:24:33. > :24:39.exactly those issues and he concluded that the dive urgent

:24:40. > :24:47.within regions and nations was no greater than, was greater than that

:24:48. > :24:54.between the different nations and regions of this matter. I would make

:24:55. > :24:58.the point to the honourable member that if the Scottish Government

:24:59. > :25:02.believes that there should be more support from the state for those

:25:03. > :25:07.approaching retirement age, they will have the powers in which to do

:25:08. > :25:14.that so if they wish to provide that support in Scotland, effectively

:25:15. > :25:17.providing support a year or two years earlier that applies to the

:25:18. > :25:20.rest of the United Kingdom, the Scottish Government has the power to

:25:21. > :25:24.do that. I wouldn't particularly advise them to do it but it is their

:25:25. > :25:27.decision and I really don't think that there is a complaint to be

:25:28. > :25:34.raced with the UK Government on that front. Can I commend my right

:25:35. > :25:38.honourable friend on his statement and say he is right to be tackling

:25:39. > :25:41.the issues of intergenerational fairness. Retirement is not just

:25:42. > :25:47.about the state alone. Can he say what other measures, alongside this

:25:48. > :25:52.amendment he is going to propose to ensure that young people can say for

:25:53. > :25:55.their retirement alongside the state provision? One thing I would

:25:56. > :26:00.highlight, as our member for Chingford did a moment ago, is what

:26:01. > :26:04.we have done in terms of auto enrolment, and that means 10 million

:26:05. > :26:08.more people saving for a retirement. It is a huge step forward and I am

:26:09. > :26:12.delighted with the success of the auto enrolment and the very low tout

:26:13. > :26:16.rates. It is one example of how the government is ensuring that people

:26:17. > :26:19.will have a dignified retirement. We have got to remember that the public

:26:20. > :26:27.finances need to be in order as well. Bearing in mind regional

:26:28. > :26:31.health inequalities, I wondered what particular steps the government were

:26:32. > :26:36.going to introduce in terms of Social Security to support those who

:26:37. > :26:42.will not be able to work until this later age? It is the case that there

:26:43. > :26:49.-- that as a country with them very large sums of money, something like

:26:50. > :26:52.?50 billion a year, in support of people receiving support for health

:26:53. > :26:55.and disability issues and we will obviously continue to do that. That

:26:56. > :27:03.is the best way of supporting people who have got health difficulties,

:27:04. > :27:10.rather than having a lower state pension age, which would be

:27:11. > :27:14.unaffordable. I thank the Secretary of State, perhaps was not too much

:27:15. > :27:17.enthusiasm, for delaying my retirement by a year. I am exactly

:27:18. > :27:21.the range of people whose retirement has been delayed. What plans does he

:27:22. > :27:26.had to learn from issues with previous races in the retirement

:27:27. > :27:30.rate in communicating with people who will be affected that this

:27:31. > :27:33.change is happening to them? First of all, the longer we can delay my

:27:34. > :27:45.honourable friend 's retirement, the better. In terms of communication

:27:46. > :27:49.with those affected, of course, we are essentially giving something

:27:50. > :27:57.like 20 years notice today, but as we legislate for this matter in due

:27:58. > :28:05.course then of course it will be necessary to properly communicate

:28:06. > :28:09.with those who will be affected. It will be properly, properly, it is

:28:10. > :28:17.proper that we communicate with those and we will be doing so. I am

:28:18. > :28:21.very grateful. Would the secretary of state be able to tell us what

:28:22. > :28:27.steps his department is taking to ensure that older people will not be

:28:28. > :28:32.subjected to his government 's punitive sanctions regime? Well, I

:28:33. > :28:35.make the point that in terms of the sanctions regime, actually the

:28:36. > :28:38.number of sanctions are down by around about a half in the course of

:28:39. > :28:45.the last year. We have a welfare system that has at its heart a

:28:46. > :28:49.principle of conditionality for many of the benefits that are there and

:28:50. > :28:54.in order to enforce conditions it is necessary to have a sanctions

:28:55. > :28:57.regime, but, as I say, the vast, vast majority, something like 98% of

:28:58. > :29:01.benefit claimants are not sanctioned.

:29:02. > :29:08.With respect to the statement, my right honourable friend will be

:29:09. > :29:12.aware that when Her Majesty the Queen came to the throne in 1952,

:29:13. > :29:19.there were 300 people in that year who reached the age of 100. Last

:29:20. > :29:22.year it was over 13,000. Will he expressed surprise that I feel at

:29:23. > :29:29.the responsibility and recklessness of the party opposite in resisting

:29:30. > :29:36.some of these suggestions? I don't know that I'm surprised but it is

:29:37. > :29:43.disappointing. The reality is that we have an ageing population, just

:29:44. > :29:48.as every similar type of country does, and we all have to respond to

:29:49. > :29:57.the facts, and the facts are that as the population ages, as like -- as

:29:58. > :30:01.life expectancy improves, and indeed healthy life expectancy, it is right

:30:02. > :30:06.for the pension age to reflect that. To deny that is just annoying

:30:07. > :30:09.common-sense. I had hoped the minister was coming here today

:30:10. > :30:14.because he had seen the light. He had realised that the women from the

:30:15. > :30:18.1950s are being dealt a terrible set of cards by this Government. That he

:30:19. > :30:22.was going to compensate them, that he was going to make good on the

:30:23. > :30:25.injustice that has been done to them, that he was going to make sure

:30:26. > :30:29.that every single person that wasn't even notified by the government that

:30:30. > :30:34.they would be caught by this would be compensated, and that he was

:30:35. > :30:39.going to finally acknowledge that women in my constituency who are in

:30:40. > :30:42.their 60s, who say to me they are completely clapped-out because they

:30:43. > :30:48.have had the Boreas jobs or their lives, that they are the very people

:30:49. > :30:56.that his minister says should now take up an apprenticeship! -- have

:30:57. > :31:02.had difficult jobs. I'm not sure I would want to call my constituents

:31:03. > :31:08.clapped-out but there you go! The position when it comes to those born

:31:09. > :31:15.in the 1950s, just as with this announcement in the 1970s, we have

:31:16. > :31:18.to balance out the needs and the desire to provide a dignified

:31:19. > :31:26.retirement with the fact that state pensions have to be paid for and it

:31:27. > :31:29.is unfair on tax payers if we don't have a state pension age that

:31:30. > :31:35.reflects life expectancy. That is all we are saying and that seems to

:31:36. > :31:42.me to be something that is very hard to argue against. The Secretary of

:31:43. > :31:45.State is absolutely right to go ahead with the report's main

:31:46. > :31:52.recommendation, which critically gives advance notice of more than 20

:31:53. > :31:55.years to those who will be affected, and thereby distinguishes this

:31:56. > :32:01.Government's record from that of the previous Labour government, who

:32:02. > :32:05.failed to communicate adequately the changes. Can he confirmed there will

:32:06. > :32:10.be a comprehensive communication programme to make sure everybody

:32:11. > :32:14.does know in advance? And secondly, whether the Government is also

:32:15. > :32:19.accepting the report's other recommendations on means tested

:32:20. > :32:25.benefits, working past state pension age and the review? In terms of the

:32:26. > :32:29.other recommendations, we are looking very carefully at those

:32:30. > :32:34.proposals. Obviously there are issues that have an impact across

:32:35. > :32:39.government. But we think it is right to move swiftly in terms of the key

:32:40. > :32:44.recommendation, which is the state pension age, in order to give people

:32:45. > :32:48.as much advance notice as possible. But my honourable friend makes a

:32:49. > :32:52.good point about the communication process and so on. That is something

:32:53. > :32:55.that will need to be determined nearer the time. We are 20 years

:32:56. > :33:01.away from the point at which this takes effect. But we are determined

:33:02. > :33:06.to insure that this is brought to the attention of all of those of us

:33:07. > :33:17.affected. -- to make sure that this is brought to the attention. On the

:33:18. > :33:23.issue of the Waspy women... Some of them weren't even notified of the

:33:24. > :33:26.changes. Someone notified late, someone notified after it happened,

:33:27. > :33:37.some received no notification at all. It is about time the Government

:33:38. > :33:45.came up with an answer for this. Something like 5 million letters

:33:46. > :33:50.were sent out with the addresses the Government had, and the changes made

:33:51. > :33:54.in the 1995 Act were many, many years in advance of when they took

:33:55. > :34:00.effect, and I would make the point of those women born in the 1950s -

:34:01. > :34:09.none of them had their state pension age put back by more than 18 months

:34:10. > :34:16.by the 2011 Act. Demographic pressures felt acutely across East

:34:17. > :34:21.Sussex, where we have the most 85-year-olds, many of those in my

:34:22. > :34:24.constituency. Can my right honourable friend confirmed that

:34:25. > :34:29.looking ahead, people, including those living in my constituency, can

:34:30. > :34:34.expect to receive more state pension over their lifetime than generations

:34:35. > :34:41.before? That is absolutely right, and if we look ahead, every

:34:42. > :34:46.generation will spend more years on average receiving a state pension

:34:47. > :34:52.than the previous generation. That is a very good thing but it is right

:34:53. > :34:58.that we get that balance right, and what happens if governments don't

:34:59. > :35:03.address this issue is that you end up with a crisis, you end up having

:35:04. > :35:06.to move quickly, and you end up with sharp increases in the state pension

:35:07. > :35:12.age, and that is what we are avoiding by the responsible approach

:35:13. > :35:18.we are taking today. I am the father of three young daughters and the ONS

:35:19. > :35:23.statistics say one of them will live to be 100, and by the time they

:35:24. > :35:26.retire, there will only be two workers in this country for every

:35:27. > :35:31.retired person, so would he agree with me that it is blindingly

:35:32. > :35:35.obvious we need to take the steps he has outlined today? It shouldn't be

:35:36. > :35:37.a cause of regret, it should be a cause of celebration that our

:35:38. > :35:43.children and grandchildren are going to live to such a grand old age, and

:35:44. > :35:49.it should be on a cross-party basis just as any responsible actions of a

:35:50. > :35:53.government should be taken. It is a cause of celebration that life

:35:54. > :35:57.expectancy is improving, he puts it well. But along with changes in life

:35:58. > :36:01.expectancy, inevitably, there are changes in the state pension age,

:36:02. > :36:11.and that's what the change today demonstrates. Does the Secretary of

:36:12. > :36:13.State agree that thanks to the financial responsibilities shown

:36:14. > :36:18.hitherto, we've managed to increase the state pension is quite

:36:19. > :36:26.generously in the last few years by ?1250 a year, and that's why

:36:27. > :36:30.pensioner poverty has gone down? He's absolutely right, but in order

:36:31. > :36:33.to do that, we need to take responsible decisions on public

:36:34. > :36:37.finance as a whole, including on the state pension age, and that's what

:36:38. > :36:44.we're going to do even if we don't get the support of the party

:36:45. > :36:47.opposite. As somebody who had their state pension age increased to 68

:36:48. > :36:53.with everyone slightly older than me and younger than me back in 2007, I

:36:54. > :36:59.listen to encourage -- I listen with incredulity to some of the comments

:37:00. > :37:07.this afternoon. This isn't just a challenge unique to the UK. It is a

:37:08. > :37:11.challenge faced by other countries. He is absolutely right. We are

:37:12. > :37:19.seeing increases to the pension age in the Netherlands, the Republic of

:37:20. > :37:22.Ireland. It is what responsible parties do. Unfortunately we only

:37:23. > :37:30.have one responsible party in this country. I pay tribute to the

:37:31. > :37:37.report, in part because the writer of it went to my grammar school!

:37:38. > :37:40.Would he agree that it is by taking a responsible brave decisions and

:37:41. > :37:45.having a review like this that we avoid the situation that countries

:37:46. > :37:50.like Italy find themselves in, where you have to increase the pension age

:37:51. > :37:55.by four and a half years in one go? It is the responsible and fair thing

:37:56. > :38:02.to do. He is absolutely right, and if we could have -- and we could

:38:03. > :38:05.have put this off and kicked it into the long grass, but it is important

:38:06. > :38:11.for the future of this country that we have a government prepared to

:38:12. > :38:14.take those long-term decisions, securing intergenerational fairness

:38:15. > :38:17.and ensuring we provide more certainty to pensioners that there

:38:18. > :38:31.won't be the need for those sudden changes that might have been seen

:38:32. > :38:34.elsewhere. Order. I have thought the honourable gentleman wished to raise

:38:35. > :38:40.a point of order and it turns out that, on prompting, he does. The

:38:41. > :38:48.order paper for yesterday said that the debate on drugs would continue

:38:49. > :38:55.till seven o'clock. The final speaker sat down four minutes early

:38:56. > :39:00.and the normal practice in this House is to use that space for other

:39:01. > :39:03.speakers to contribute. It was particularly interesting that the

:39:04. > :39:05.final speaker had denied interventions on the grounds that

:39:06. > :39:13.she didn't have enough time to finish. Standing orders is not clear

:39:14. > :39:17.on this point. Isn't it right that we get some definition of past

:39:18. > :39:24.practice, where when the speaker has run out of speeches early or didn't

:39:25. > :39:29.have anything else left to say, that other members can contribute to what

:39:30. > :39:34.would be a full debate? Ungrateful to the honourable gentleman for his

:39:35. > :39:42.point of order. -- I am grateful to the honourable gentleman. He deftly

:39:43. > :39:50.sunken -- he gave me some indication early on that he would raise it. As

:39:51. > :39:56.evidenced by the well thumped home on how to be a backbencher, of which

:39:57. > :40:03.he is the author, I am slightly to quibble with him on his proposition

:40:04. > :40:07.that it is normal or commonplace if the ministerial wind-up concludes

:40:08. > :40:12.early for other members to be invited to contribute. In my

:40:13. > :40:18.experience, that is not commonplace. I wouldn't say it never happens

:40:19. > :40:21.because... You can almost always find an example of something if you

:40:22. > :40:27.try hard enough. But certainly when I am in the chair, I tend to work on

:40:28. > :40:34.the assumption that the ministerial wind-up is indeed the conclusion of

:40:35. > :40:39.the debate. I note what he says about that conclusion taking place

:40:40. > :40:43.earlier than listed on the order paper, although I'm sure he will

:40:44. > :40:51.readily accept that the official report, that is to say the verbatim

:40:52. > :40:55.account of what was said, will show, there's no question of misleading,

:40:56. > :40:58.it will show that the debate concluded a little early, and the

:40:59. > :41:03.chair does not normally allow a further backbench speech. This is

:41:04. > :41:08.not directed at the honourable gentleman, it is just a wider point.

:41:09. > :41:15.Certainly not from a member who had already made a substantial speech in

:41:16. > :41:20.the debate. As for interventions, as the author of how to be a member of

:41:21. > :41:31.Parliament, available in all good book shops! I've read it, it's very

:41:32. > :41:34.good! And as I am myself a noted admirer of it, you will note that a

:41:35. > :41:41.member is free to take interventions. It is not something

:41:42. > :41:49.upon which the chair can rule if a minister says they do not have time.

:41:50. > :41:59.Ministers can be a tad erotic in these matters as can shadow

:42:00. > :42:03.ministers. The situation, though, is as I have described. Can I take this

:42:04. > :42:06.in a positive spirit to encourage all new members, though I'm not sure

:42:07. > :42:11.the whips would agree, I would encourage all new members to read

:42:12. > :42:16.the honourable gentleman's books on being a good parliamentarian. No,

:42:17. > :42:21.says a government whip from a sedentary position, in evident

:42:22. > :42:28.horror at what bad habits new members of the flock might pick up!

:42:29. > :42:32.I think they are fine books and he has used his position as a backbench

:42:33. > :42:37.member to stand up for his constituents and to fight for the

:42:38. > :42:40.principles in which he believes, and that has sometimes pleased his party

:42:41. > :42:45.and sometimes it hasn't, but that's what we're supposed to get here,

:42:46. > :42:49.members of Parliament to speak to their principles and consciences,

:42:50. > :42:53.and that's a good thing, and the speaker, as he knows, likes to

:42:54. > :42:56.encourage that. When I was a backbencher I had a relationship

:42:57. > :43:01.with my whips characterised by trust and understanding. I didn't trust

:43:02. > :43:11.them and they didn't understand me! LAUGHTER

:43:12. > :43:13.Point of order. Yesterday, finally the Department of Health for

:43:14. > :43:18.accounts were later this House after a week of tattooing and throwing

:43:19. > :43:27.which prompted no actual changes to the standard of counts. -- tooling

:43:28. > :43:32.and throwing. I would seek guidance on two points. The first being that

:43:33. > :43:37.they sat only a couple of days before. And secondly what we can do

:43:38. > :43:41.to insure a minister turned up to this House to explain the accounts

:43:42. > :43:45.and all the financial concerns many of this House have about the

:43:46. > :43:52.Government's handling of health finances. She has put her concern on

:43:53. > :43:56.the record, it will have been heard on the Treasury bench, and I suspect

:43:57. > :44:03.the contents will make their way to health ministers in time. The truth

:44:04. > :44:05.of the matter is that there is no resolution of her grievance

:44:06. > :44:35.available from the chair. Realistic that will have to wait

:44:36. > :44:40.until December but if the honourable lady is in her place tomorrow for

:44:41. > :44:45.the summer adjournment debate, and wishes to XP shade further on her

:44:46. > :44:51.concerns, she may well find she is able to catch the eye of the chair.

:44:52. > :44:57.If there are no further points of order, and I think that there are

:44:58. > :45:07.not, we come now to the presentation of bills. Presentation of Bill,

:45:08. > :45:11.Chris Bryant. Assaults on emergency workers offences Bill. Second

:45:12. > :45:25.reading, what data is Mike Friday 20th of October. Two. Mr Steve Reed.

:45:26. > :45:36.Mental health units. Friday third November. Parliamentary

:45:37. > :45:49.constituencies Amendment Bill. Second reading, what day? Friday

:45:50. > :45:57.third is September. Homes, fitness for human habitation. Friday 19th of

:45:58. > :46:06.January. Splendid day, it's my birthday. Civil partnerships,

:46:07. > :46:16.marriages and deaths registration bill. Second reading, what day?

:46:17. > :46:26.Never! Friday 2nd of February 20 18. Thank you. Organ donation, deemed

:46:27. > :46:34.consent bill. Second reading, what day? Friday 23rd of February, 2018.

:46:35. > :46:50.Thank you. Refugees, Family Reunion bills.

:46:51. > :47:01.Second reading, what day? . Friday 26th of March, 2018. Parental

:47:02. > :47:15.beliefs meant, leave and pay bill. Second reading, what day? Thank you.

:47:16. > :47:20.Representation of the People Act, young People's enfranchisement and

:47:21. > :47:32.education bill. Second reading, what day? Friday third November. Overseas

:47:33. > :47:46.electors bill. Second reading, what day? Debris 23rd, 2018. Parking code

:47:47. > :47:54.of practice bill. Second reading, what day?. Friday second February,

:47:55. > :47:57.2018. Perhaps because his bill relates to parking the nation should

:47:58. > :48:01.be aware that the right Honourable gentleman is sporting a notably

:48:02. > :48:05.colourful tie which features a very large number of cars, and knowing

:48:06. > :48:18.the right honourable gentleman 's penchant I assume they are, in fact,

:48:19. > :48:24.classic. , They are, indeed. Unpaid trial work periods prohibition law.

:48:25. > :48:34.Second reading, what day? Friday 16th of March, 2018. Prisons,

:48:35. > :48:38.interference with wireless telegraphy bill. Second reading,

:48:39. > :48:50.what day? Friday first September, 2018. -- Friday first December,

:48:51. > :48:59.2018. Stalking protection Bill. Second reading, what day?. Friday

:49:00. > :49:12.19th of January, 20 18. Oh, I do hope I'm here!

:49:13. > :49:27.Employment and workers' rights bill. Is set Second reading, what day?

:49:28. > :49:31.Friday 27th of April, 2018? Licensing of taxis and Private hire

:49:32. > :49:44.vehicles, safeguarding bill. Second reading, what day? Friday second

:49:45. > :49:57.debris, 2018. Freedom of information extension Bill. Second reading, what

:49:58. > :50:02.day?. Friday 15th June, 2018. Representation of the People Act

:50:03. > :50:16.Young People's enfranchisement bill. Second reading, what day? Friday

:50:17. > :50:25.11th of May, 2018. Thank you. Physician associates regulation

:50:26. > :50:37.bill. Second reading, what day? Friday 26 October, 2018. Thank you.

:50:38. > :50:44.National Living Wage extension to young people Bill. Second reading,

:50:45. > :50:50.what day? Friday since July 20 18. -- Friday the 6th of July, 2018.

:50:51. > :50:55.Thank you to colleagues for your patience. We now come to the

:50:56. > :50:58.emergency debate on higher education regulations on tuition fees. I

:50:59. > :51:05.called the Shadow Secretary of State for Education. Thank you, Mr

:51:06. > :51:10.Speaker, and thank you for granting this emergency debate. It is a shame

:51:11. > :51:14.that this was necessary when we have a first secretary of state who calls

:51:15. > :51:20.for a national debate on tuition fees, a Brexit secretary who says

:51:21. > :51:25.this House always votes on statutory instruments, and Justice Secretary

:51:26. > :51:29.who, as leader of the House, actually did accept the need for a

:51:30. > :51:36.debate and vote. Of course, that was before the election, Mr Speaker. Now

:51:37. > :51:41.100 days later, this week and wobbly government doesn't even trust its

:51:42. > :51:46.own backbenchers with a vote on its own policies. But the higher

:51:47. > :51:48.education and research act that the Education Secretary and the

:51:49. > :51:52.universities minister took through this House is very clear on the

:51:53. > :51:57.matter. Paragraph five of scheduled to stated that the upper limit of

:51:58. > :52:01.these can only rise when each House of Parliament has passed a

:52:02. > :52:04.resolution that with effect from the date specified in the resolution,

:52:05. > :52:09.the higher amount should be increased. Can the minister

:52:10. > :52:14.guarantee that no students will have to pay the higher fees until both

:52:15. > :52:19.houses have passed such a resolution allowing it? Can he tell us when the

:52:20. > :52:25.vote on these resolutions will take place? Of course, the minister

:52:26. > :52:29.himself seems to be one member of the government to does not want this

:52:30. > :52:34.vote, judging from his Twitter feed last night. He said that plans to

:52:35. > :52:40.raise fees were first outlined in a July 2016 and that we have had

:52:41. > :52:45.extensive debate sense. Perhaps he forgot that they were announced on

:52:46. > :52:51.the last day before summer recess last year, snuck out as one of 30

:52:52. > :52:55.written statements on that day, then the statutory instrument was put

:52:56. > :52:59.before the House just before Christmas this year. Not long after

:53:00. > :53:03.that the opposition parade against the measures and yet despite

:53:04. > :53:08.repeatedly pushing for it we were not given a debate. And as the

:53:09. > :53:13.Minister said the regulations came into force on the 6th of January...

:53:14. > :53:18.I happily give way. On the subject of being weak and wobbly, can she

:53:19. > :53:22.confirm if it is still Labour policy to pay off all 100 billion of the

:53:23. > :53:29.outstanding student debt? Is that still policy, yes or no? Mr Speaker,

:53:30. > :53:34.I don't know how many times I have to explain this to members opposite

:53:35. > :53:41.before they finally understand. A cynic might say that there are

:53:42. > :53:47.wilfully misrepresenting my party 's policies. We have never said that we

:53:48. > :53:54.would simply write off all existing debt. They refer to comments made by

:53:55. > :53:57.my right honourable friend, the Leader of the Opposition. I would

:53:58. > :54:04.remind them that he said that we would look at steps to reduce or

:54:05. > :54:08.emanate the debt burden. Perhaps this confused to members opposite

:54:09. > :54:11.because it is not something their front bench has done for seven

:54:12. > :54:15.years. For instance, you may want to listen to this before you intervene

:54:16. > :54:20.again. For instance, we would look again at the repayment threshold for

:54:21. > :54:25.student debts, which they have frozen at ?21,000, which will cost

:54:26. > :54:30.most of the lower earning graduates. We would look at the interest rates

:54:31. > :54:34.on debt which they have allowed to reach an extortionate, unacceptable

:54:35. > :54:41.fix .1% in the year to come, and I have said once, and I will say it

:54:42. > :54:47.again, we have no plans to write off existing student debt and we never

:54:48. > :54:53.promised to do so. Unlike the party opposite, we make sure that all of

:54:54. > :54:55.our plans are fully costed and outlined in our manifesto. Perhaps

:54:56. > :55:04.they could learn something from that. I my honourable friend for

:55:05. > :55:08.giving way, in 2010 the government tripled tuition fees and now they

:55:09. > :55:11.are raising fees again. Does my honourable friend agree that there

:55:12. > :55:18.is no surprise whatsoever that young people are turning away from this

:55:19. > :55:22.government in their droves? My honourable friend makes an important

:55:23. > :55:25.point as in the sour grapes from opposite is the fact that they

:55:26. > :55:29.clearly understand that we are connected with the young people of

:55:30. > :55:38.this country, unlike the benches opposite. Can I thank the honourable

:55:39. > :55:41.lady for giving way and I wonder for one moment if she could just take

:55:42. > :55:46.the stripped she was given seconds before she got up and put it to one

:55:47. > :55:51.side and answer a simple question. -- script. During the election party

:55:52. > :55:54.made it categorically clear to endless numbers of students that

:55:55. > :56:04.they would abolish the student debt, will she now get up and apologise

:56:05. > :56:10.for using them as election for the? I say to the honourable member, as I

:56:11. > :56:15.said to the other honourable member, that was not... Order! Order!

:56:16. > :56:18.Members must call them down. -- calm down. Earlier we were breast of the

:56:19. > :56:21.Pleasance -- earlier we were blessed with the presence of the father of

:56:22. > :56:25.the House who intervene the Prime Minister's Questions and he asked

:56:26. > :56:29.question and then the rest of the time he eggs you did would like

:56:30. > :56:34.calm, which other honourable and right honourable members should seek

:56:35. > :56:39.to emulate. I deliberately granted this debate the full three hours so

:56:40. > :56:46.there is plenty of time, but members should not shout at each other

:56:47. > :56:51.across the chamber. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank -- first of all, the

:56:52. > :56:54.honourable member seems to have failed to understand our policy. It

:56:55. > :56:58.was absolutely clear what our policy was and that was from the day that

:56:59. > :57:02.we took office that we would abolish tuition fees from that day and that

:57:03. > :57:10.was absolutely clear. Please listen to my answers, I was absolutely

:57:11. > :57:18.clear. Quiet. There is nothing worse than a failed minister. Mr Speaker,

:57:19. > :57:22.we said that we would abolish tuition fees from the moment that we

:57:23. > :57:26.got into power and we also said that we would bring back maintenance

:57:27. > :57:29.grants because unlike the benches opposite which are chuntering away

:57:30. > :57:32.and not listening to what I have to say despite the fact that they

:57:33. > :57:38.intervened, I am not taking any more interventions if you will not listen

:57:39. > :57:43.to the answers. I will happily give way. Can I suggest to my honourable

:57:44. > :57:51.friend that she does not take any nonsense from the other side. They

:57:52. > :57:54.repeatedly told this House that whenever the opposition parade

:57:55. > :57:57.against a statutory instrument that they would guarantee there would be

:57:58. > :58:01.a vote in this House, so the people could put their vote won their mouth

:58:02. > :58:06.was. They repeatedly have failed to do so. They are trying to do this by

:58:07. > :58:15.the back door, which is why she is absolutely right to show the door. I

:58:16. > :58:17.thank you my honourable friend for his intervention and I congratulate

:58:18. > :58:22.him for his experience in these matters more than myself. But the

:58:23. > :58:27.Minister said, I'm going to make some progress, the minister said the

:58:28. > :58:32.regulations came into force on the 6th of January but they did so

:58:33. > :58:37.without debate, let alone a vote in this House. Then we were finally

:58:38. > :58:40.granted a debate and vote and the Prime Minister called her early

:58:41. > :58:46.election and then the regulations came into force while Parliament was

:58:47. > :58:50.dissolved. We have since raised it repeatedly, only to be eventually

:58:51. > :58:55.told by the new leader of the House that the government does not intend

:58:56. > :58:56.to provide any time for it. So much for the Minister 's extensive

:58:57. > :59:07.debate. I happily give way. I promise I will listen intently to

:59:08. > :59:11.her reply. She and I will agree on one thing. That we are very lucky in

:59:12. > :59:19.this country to have a high quality, in terms of brainpower, of people at

:59:20. > :59:24.University today. They told me what they thought the leader of her party

:59:25. > :59:27.had said. It is at huge variance to what the honourable lady has said

:59:28. > :59:34.her right honourable friend said during the election campaign. Nobody

:59:35. > :59:40.remembers the weasel words and caveats she has deployed today. Will

:59:41. > :59:44.she now apologise? Will be on -- the honourable member says it is weasel

:59:45. > :59:47.words but I can guarantee that throughout the campaign number four,

:59:48. > :59:59.I was up and down the country with my honourable friend... Let me

:00:00. > :00:03.respond. Members have got to learn the ropes and the honourable

:00:04. > :00:07.gentleman has been here a number of years. It is normal manners and

:00:08. > :00:10.Parliamentary etiquette that a member be given the chance to

:00:11. > :00:20.respond to an intervention before being hollered at to take another.

:00:21. > :00:26.Don't smirk at me. You were smirking. You can take this from me

:00:27. > :00:31.whether you like it or not. Behave! I believe our party were absolutely

:00:32. > :00:35.clear and the thousands of students that have contacted me on this issue

:00:36. > :00:42.are clear on this as well. So I don't know why he isn't clear on it.

:00:43. > :00:44.The consequence is uncertainty for both universities and thousands of

:00:45. > :00:50.students due to go to university next year. Perhaps the minister can

:00:51. > :00:53.tell us what will happen if once we eventually secure a vote the

:00:54. > :00:59.regulations are revoked during the university year. This fee hike is

:01:00. > :01:07.damaging enough in itself but leaving it unclear is even worse. I

:01:08. > :01:10.will happily give way. I thank my honourable friend for giving way.

:01:11. > :01:14.Does she agree that it's extraordinary the way the Government

:01:15. > :01:19.have responded, mocking the issues debated, when really they should be

:01:20. > :01:23.much more concerned about the drop in University application figures,

:01:24. > :01:27.the rising debt of young people, and I've had grandparents and parents

:01:28. > :01:32.talk to me about debts of ?50,000 for young people in their families.

:01:33. > :01:35.Shouldn't we be sending a message of hope to young people rather than

:01:36. > :01:41.that we are going to increase the anxiety before you even start your

:01:42. > :01:45.young life? I absolutely agree, and we know this was a very hot topic

:01:46. > :01:52.during the general election, and I believe this House has the best

:01:53. > :01:56.interests of young people and that's -- that side of the House really

:01:57. > :02:01.need to listen to way young people are on this issue. The current plan

:02:02. > :02:06.is all part of behaviour from this Government. They tripled tuition

:02:07. > :02:10.fees to ?9,000, they abolished maintenance grants for students,

:02:11. > :02:16.meaning the poorest will take on the most debt, they promised when they

:02:17. > :02:20.tripled tuition fees that the threshold at which graduates repay

:02:21. > :02:26.their student debts, currently at 21,000, would rise in line with

:02:27. > :02:30.earnings. In fact, the Conservative Universities Minister at the time

:02:31. > :02:35.said, we will increase the repayment threshold to 21000 and we will

:02:36. > :02:41.thereafter increase it periodically to reflect earnings. They broke that

:02:42. > :02:47.promise as well. And while tuition fees continue to rise, the repayment

:02:48. > :02:55.threshold remains frozen, hitting graduates on lower salaries each and

:02:56. > :02:58.every year. I give way. She refers to the issue of broken promises.

:02:59. > :03:04.Will she tell us which government it was, which party it was in 2001

:03:05. > :03:08.stated that they would not raise top up fees because they had legislated

:03:09. > :03:14.against them, and then introduced them in 2004? The honourable member

:03:15. > :03:21.will know that when we introduce tuition fees and when we dealt with

:03:22. > :03:24.that issue, we also increased the amount of maintenance grants and

:03:25. > :03:30.support that was on offer to the poorest students. Now even Lord

:03:31. > :03:36.Adonais, the architect of those tuition fees, called it a

:03:37. > :03:39.Frankenstein's monster of ?50,000 worth of debt for students on modest

:03:40. > :03:47.salaries who can't afford to pay back these fees. -- for graduates on

:03:48. > :03:52.modest salaries. I was in Parliament at the time of that bill going

:03:53. > :03:57.through protesting it, and not only has our noble friend had a change of

:03:58. > :04:00.heart, but so has the entire Conservative Party, because they

:04:01. > :04:04.railed against the introduction of top-up fees, George Osborne called

:04:05. > :04:08.it a tax on learning, so who would have thought that only a few years

:04:09. > :04:11.later, this would be the party that would plunge students into the

:04:12. > :04:17.highest levels of debt in the Western world? I'm really trying to

:04:18. > :04:23.make this debate constructive rather than a ping-pong of who said what.

:04:24. > :04:26.What our students today expect of us, they are telling us that the

:04:27. > :04:35.current debt levels they are getting at the moment are unsustainable and

:04:36. > :04:37.they clearly are. A record number of students from disadvantaged

:04:38. > :04:41.backgrounds going to university, which members opposite say all the

:04:42. > :04:47.time, but if only that were the whole story. Because the evidence

:04:48. > :04:51.shows students from the most disadvantaged backgrounds are the

:04:52. > :04:57.most likely to be deterred by debt. I will happily give way. Would she

:04:58. > :05:03.agree with me that there's a real difference between what is happening

:05:04. > :05:07.in Wales with the Diamond Review, which is moving back to a

:05:08. > :05:13.grant-based review, so they will receive a full grant and support for

:05:14. > :05:18.living costs, which other student bodies including the NUS have

:05:19. > :05:23.implemented. That's the effect of having a Labour government in Wales

:05:24. > :05:26.as opposed to a Tory government. I'm sure he has pre-empted some of the

:05:27. > :05:30.interventions from the benches opposite who like to say that the

:05:31. > :05:34.Wales government on doing things right. But they have invested in

:05:35. > :05:37.their young people and they believe they young people are the future of

:05:38. > :05:43.the Welsh economy, and I congratulate them on making those

:05:44. > :05:48.decisions. Of course the Welsh government is a government that

:05:49. > :05:52.makes its decisions on education, before I get an intervention on what

:05:53. > :06:02.Wales are doing about loans. As I was saying, though, Mr Speaker,

:06:03. > :06:06.burdening students with over ?50,000 of debt, we would then see more

:06:07. > :06:12.disadvantaged young people not going to university. After all, we have

:06:13. > :06:16.seen that in many of the most prestigious universities, including

:06:17. > :06:21.Oxford and Cambridge. The number of disadvantaged students attending is

:06:22. > :06:25.falling. She complains we keep asking questions about who said what

:06:26. > :06:30.and when, but they perpetrated a scam on the British people, because

:06:31. > :06:35.they clearly led students in our constituencies to believe that their

:06:36. > :06:42.loans would be written off. If she is now saying that that was not the

:06:43. > :06:47.intention, but that they would in future just cancel future tuition

:06:48. > :06:49.fees, how is that fair for those people, including my children, who

:06:50. > :06:54.notched up tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt, which she is

:06:55. > :07:02.complaining about, that she leaves them with debt but in future they

:07:03. > :07:08.won't have a debt? How is that fair? I can't say it any clearer. We said

:07:09. > :07:18.we wouldn't do anything with it unless we could afford it. Mr

:07:19. > :07:21.Speaker, I have put forward and I will continue to put forward three

:07:22. > :07:24.things this Government can do right away to help our students, including

:07:25. > :07:31.the honourable members and his daughters. One is the repayment

:07:32. > :07:35.threshold, which this Government has decided to freeze, which they don't

:07:36. > :07:38.have to do. They can put it in line with earnings. Secondly, they could

:07:39. > :07:45.look at the percentage rate of the loan. It is 6.7%. It doesn't have to

:07:46. > :07:51.be that. It was a Bank of England rate plus one, and that would be

:07:52. > :07:57.1.25%, which is considerably less than the current 6.7%. If the

:07:58. > :07:59.Government really cares about social mobility and getting students into

:08:00. > :08:11.university, bring back maintenance grants. I will happily give way.

:08:12. > :08:14.Thank you. I was a nurse until a month ago and I wasn't even

:08:15. > :08:19.adequately paid, let alone overpaid, and the point I want to make is I

:08:20. > :08:23.got a bursary when I trained. I was a single parent and I couldn't have

:08:24. > :08:29.trained without it. The fact that nursing applications have fallen by

:08:30. > :08:33.a massive percentage means people like me wouldn't have been able to

:08:34. > :08:40.train. Can I ask for her comments on that? I welcome my honourable friend

:08:41. > :08:45.to This Place and she makes an extremely important point, because

:08:46. > :08:48.we've seen that nurses' bursaries have had a negative impact on people

:08:49. > :08:54.applying to go to university and do nurse courses, and as we look to

:08:55. > :08:58.exit the European Union, we all know on both sides of this House that we

:08:59. > :09:02.have to train and skill up our own workforce in order to provide those

:09:03. > :09:11.nurses, doctors and all of those skilled worker jobs that we require

:09:12. > :09:15.if the honourable members opposite said that they wanted to cut

:09:16. > :09:19.immigration. If they truly wanted to do that, they have to invest in the

:09:20. > :09:22.young people in this country. And it seems the Secretary of State

:09:23. > :09:26.believes that access to higher education simply ends with

:09:27. > :09:29.admissions. Figures for the office of fair access have shown that the

:09:30. > :09:34.proportion of students dropping out before they finish their studies is

:09:35. > :09:39.at a five-year high. And disadvantaged students are nearly

:09:40. > :09:45.twice as likely to drop out compared to their more affluent peers. I will

:09:46. > :09:48.give way. I appreciate that this is a difficult day for her because she

:09:49. > :09:52.has come to raise some important issues which we should discuss and

:09:53. > :09:55.debate, but her credibility is completely undermined by the

:09:56. > :09:59.difficulty of saying she is talking about the best interest of young

:10:00. > :10:03.people on the one hand, and on the other hand, having seen her party

:10:04. > :10:08.policy change to a position where today she says she has no plans to

:10:09. > :10:14.write off student debt, and therefore her party's word cannot be

:10:15. > :10:22.trusted on anything, and young people will become more cynical

:10:23. > :10:25.about what politicians say... The Arab member knows that we are

:10:26. > :10:32.talking about the tuition fee rise that his party said they would give

:10:33. > :10:37.to students and I am hoping we can push his government to get a vote,

:10:38. > :10:41.and that is not to hike tuition fees for our young people. Social

:10:42. > :10:48.mobility, Mr Speaker, is stalling, and dropout rates are rising. In the

:10:49. > :10:54.UK this is the highest in the world and more than 75% of students will

:10:55. > :10:58.never pay off their debts. The fact is, their policy on higher education

:10:59. > :11:06.simply isn't working. I will give way. My position on tuition fees is

:11:07. > :11:09.perfectly clear, as my voting record will attest. But the difference with

:11:10. > :11:14.what she has laid out today is that the normal run of things of Labour

:11:15. > :11:17.policy is to promise students things and then backtracked in government.

:11:18. > :11:26.This time they have promised to write off the debts and then

:11:27. > :11:29.backtracked in opposition. Would she therefore say to a grandfather in my

:11:30. > :11:35.constituency you'd simply got his information from the news following

:11:36. > :11:41.the promise from Labour that his grandchildrens' debts would be

:11:42. > :11:49.written off, is she accusing him of being a bit stupid? I would ask them

:11:50. > :11:58.to go to our website, where they can get a copy of For The Many, Not The

:11:59. > :12:07.Few,, which highlights our education service and I can tell you is a huge

:12:08. > :12:12.amount more than the Conservative manifesto, which was to simply take

:12:13. > :12:18.the food from the mouths of children of this country, which was rejected

:12:19. > :12:21.by the public. But there is an alternative. One outlined by the

:12:22. > :12:26.Labour Party at the last general election. We pledged to end

:12:27. > :12:32.university tuition fees so that future generations will not be

:12:33. > :12:37.burdened with debts simply for seeking an education. And we would

:12:38. > :12:41.find that by taxing the wealthiest individuals and the biggest business

:12:42. > :12:46.instead of forcing only those graduates are unfortunate enough to

:12:47. > :12:51.be 50,000 in debt to foot the bill. By contrast, the Government's system

:12:52. > :12:56.will still cost the taxpayer nearly ?6 billion a year in the long-term.

:12:57. > :13:01.We will also bring back the student maintenance grants. To support

:13:02. > :13:05.students from low and middle income backgrounds with their living costs,

:13:06. > :13:09.reversing one of the most aggressive decisions by the government. And

:13:10. > :13:19.there is someone in the party opposite for a long time who agreed

:13:20. > :13:21.with that policy. There was a Conservative Shadow Education

:13:22. > :13:30.Secretary who said that the removal of maintenance grants would narrow

:13:31. > :13:36.the access. Who told her party that, we need to show we care about the

:13:37. > :13:40.student that wants to go to university but cannot afford tuition

:13:41. > :13:45.fees, but to then helped write and stand on a manifesto that would

:13:46. > :13:46.scrap tuition fees altogether. She is now the Prime Minister, Mr

:13:47. > :14:01.Speaker. She is now the one narrowing access,

:14:02. > :14:07.not widening it, who is showing students that she does not care, and

:14:08. > :14:15.I am hoping that her manifesto promises can be disposed of as

:14:16. > :14:20.quickly as Nick and Fiona were. To think, Mr Speaker, to think that on

:14:21. > :14:26.Monday, in this House, the secretary of state accused me of cared --

:14:27. > :14:30.peddling snake oil propaganda. I guess that is her specialist

:14:31. > :14:35.subject. She promised to protect school budgets in her manifesto in

:14:36. > :14:40.2015 before cutting them in real terms. She pledged to give 30 hours

:14:41. > :14:44.of free childcare to working parents, only to tell tens of

:14:45. > :14:50.thousands of them that they do not earn enough to be eligible. And now

:14:51. > :14:56.she is breaking every single promise the party opposite made to students.

:14:57. > :15:03.I have told the secretary of state again and again what can be done to

:15:04. > :15:08.address the existing debt burden. She could, again, I will reiterate,

:15:09. > :15:14.she could again look at the extortionate interest rates on

:15:15. > :15:19.students due to the rise of over 6%, at a time when the Bank of England

:15:20. > :15:23.base rate is no point to 5%. She could keep the promise originally

:15:24. > :15:26.made to students to actually raise the repayment threshold on their

:15:27. > :15:33.debt in line with average earnings, and she could look again at the

:15:34. > :15:37.unexpected bull levels of disadvantaged students dropping out

:15:38. > :15:41.of universities and give them proper maintenance support. All of those

:15:42. > :15:46.things would reduce the burden of debt on today's graduates and most

:15:47. > :15:54.of them won't cost the taxpayer an extra penny. The 2015 general

:15:55. > :15:58.election feels like a long time ago, Mr Speaker, that I remember a time

:15:59. > :16:02.when the Conservatives stood on a manifesto that said, we, as a

:16:03. > :16:08.nation, should not be piling up in passing on unaffordable levels of

:16:09. > :16:14.debt to the next generation. But, Mr Speaker, that is exactly what her

:16:15. > :16:18.government is doing, increasing tuition fees again will simply leave

:16:19. > :16:23.more and more young people with debts that they will never repay. On

:16:24. > :16:31.these benches we believe that is the wrong thing to do. Members opposite

:16:32. > :16:36.may disagree. That is their right, but what is not right is to deny

:16:37. > :16:40.this has the chance to decide. Tuition fees are an important issue,

:16:41. > :16:47.but they are not the main issue before us today. The question before

:16:48. > :16:51.us today is much more fundamental. It is about the trust in our

:16:52. > :16:58.government and ultimately our democracy. And quite frankly, Mr

:16:59. > :17:04.Speaker, if ministers cannot keep their promises to us then why should

:17:05. > :17:11.anyone else believe them? I am sure the Minister is about to make what

:17:12. > :17:15.he believes is a convincing case. However, the real test... Point of

:17:16. > :17:19.order, I hope it is a point of order and not frustration. The point of

:17:20. > :17:27.order is this that the Leader of the Opposition said to the MMA... Order!

:17:28. > :17:30.Order! The honourable gentleman can resume his seat. It was a nice tight

:17:31. > :17:34.and he is an industrious fellow but that is a matter of debate, he

:17:35. > :17:39.cannot ask the chair to adjudicate on who said what, when, particularly

:17:40. > :17:43.when it was outside this chamber. I appreciate the assiduity of the

:17:44. > :17:49.honourable gentleman but I am afraid he leads a rather better disguise

:17:50. > :17:51.than that. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am sure the Minister is about to

:17:52. > :17:57.make what he believes is a convincing case. However, the real

:17:58. > :18:05.test is not just to give us his word, but to give us a vote on them.

:18:06. > :18:10.That is the question I put to him now. If he is so convinced that what

:18:11. > :18:18.he is doing is right then will he give the courage of those convicted

:18:19. > :18:24.-- convictions, and put them to this House. The question is as on the

:18:25. > :18:29.order paper. I call the Minister for higher education, the universities

:18:30. > :18:32.minister, Joe Johnston. Thank you, Mr Speaker, the party opposite wants

:18:33. > :18:40.to talk about process because its policy platform is disintegrating

:18:41. > :18:45.before our eyes. Mr Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to set out

:18:46. > :18:49.once again the government 's approach to the student fees

:18:50. > :18:55.regulations. This is hardly new to rain for Parliament. The government

:18:56. > :18:58.made it clear as far back as June 2015 's budget that maximum tuition

:18:59. > :19:04.fees would lie is -- rise in line with inflation and I set out changes

:19:05. > :19:09.to fees in detail for 2017/18 in a written WMS in July 20 16. Changes

:19:10. > :19:13.to bees were subsequently extensively debated during the

:19:14. > :19:17.passage of the AT bill through both houses, with numerous votes on

:19:18. > :19:22.student finance issues, all of which were won by the government. The

:19:23. > :19:27.regulations, Mr Speaker, are not proposed as the honourable member

:19:28. > :19:33.opposite says, they have now been in force for six months. This debate

:19:34. > :19:40.which cannot change arrangements for 2017/18 is therefore a sham

:19:41. > :19:45.exercise. I suspect this is simply more of the same cynical politics we

:19:46. > :19:48.saw over the weekend when labour broke its own pre-election pledge

:19:49. > :19:55.about which we have heard so much this afternoon, to write off a

:19:56. > :20:02.historic student loan debts, so let us recall precisely what the Leader

:20:03. > :20:06.of the Opposition told NME seven days before the general election,

:20:07. > :20:12.and this is a direct quote. I don't see why those who had the historical

:20:13. > :20:15.misfortune to be at university during the ?9,000 period should be

:20:16. > :20:22.burdened excessively compared to those who went before or those that

:20:23. > :20:29.came after. I will deal with it. I will deal with it, Mr Speaker! This

:20:30. > :20:34.was likely a pledge to young voters. Now, Mr Speaker, the first sign of

:20:35. > :20:37.trouble came when the Shadow Education Secretary said a few days

:20:38. > :20:44.ago that she was still trying to work out the cost of this policy on

:20:45. > :20:48.a big Apple curse, and then the penny dropped completely over the

:20:49. > :20:53.weekend when we heard from the Shadow Chancellor and others that

:20:54. > :20:58.this pre-election promise was being downgraded to the lowly status of an

:20:59. > :21:03.ambition. Well, Mr Speaker, we all know what that means, it means that

:21:04. > :21:07.it is never, ever going to happen and it does not do anything for the

:21:08. > :21:12.credibility of the party opposite to abandon such a striking commitment

:21:13. > :21:19.to young people just a few weeks after the general election. I am

:21:20. > :21:22.very grateful to the Minister for giving way. In case I am just

:21:23. > :21:27.becoming a little forgetful, the manifesto to which my honourable

:21:28. > :21:33.friend refers, that wasn't the fully costed manifesto of the Labour

:21:34. > :21:37.Party, was it? My honourable friend is absolutely right. He has exposed

:21:38. > :21:41.the truth, which is the Labour Party is delivering what is perhaps the

:21:42. > :21:46.biggest act of political deception we have seen in this country in

:21:47. > :21:50.decades. This is the old game of bait and switch, saying one thing

:21:51. > :21:53.before a general election and another thing immediately

:21:54. > :22:02.afterwards. Of course, given that this was a ?100 billion hit to our

:22:03. > :22:06.public finances, which would have hurt hard-working taxpayers across

:22:07. > :22:10.the country, and delivered significant additions to our

:22:11. > :22:14.national debt, and to the interest burdens of the Next Generation, I am

:22:15. > :22:19.personally glad that they are doing this spectacular and embarrassing

:22:20. > :22:24.U-turn. I suspect it will not be too long before they abandon the rest of

:22:25. > :22:29.their completely unaffordable, unfunded, fantastical policy

:22:30. > :22:33.platform. It is a programme that they have clearly taken wholesale

:22:34. > :22:42.from the status playbooks of 1970s tax and spend failed regimes that

:22:43. > :22:45.all ended up with the IMF. Let be be clear, Mr Speaker, this policy that

:22:46. > :22:48.they were proposing prior to the general election would have

:22:49. > :22:56.increased our national debt by a whole five percentage points of GDP,

:22:57. > :23:02.adding no less than ?3500 to the debt carried by every single

:23:03. > :23:06.household in this country, and the proposal that they are also still

:23:07. > :23:10.pushing... I will give way. I am grateful to my honourable friend, at

:23:11. > :23:14.what point does he think that the honourable lady opposite decided to

:23:15. > :23:19.do the U-turn. Could he give the House and the tarmac? It seems a

:23:20. > :23:22.real puzzle. I suspect that they decided to do this spectacular

:23:23. > :23:29.U-turn when they realise the impact it would have a hard-working

:23:30. > :23:33.taxpayers up and down the because, Mr Speaker, the proposal to, as I

:23:34. > :23:37.said, right of student debt is going to add ?3500 to the debt carried by

:23:38. > :23:41.every single household in the country. I will give way. The

:23:42. > :23:44.decision to scrap the maintenance grant means that the most

:23:45. > :23:50.disadvantaged students will graduate with the highest level of debt. Do

:23:51. > :23:54.you think that is fair? Mr Deputy Speaker, a better way of thinking

:23:55. > :23:55.about this is that the government is making the most resources available

:23:56. > :24:14.to the people who are most in need of it. We want people from

:24:15. > :24:16.disadvantaged backgrounds to go to university. We are delighted that

:24:17. > :24:19.they are in record numbers and there are now 43% more likely to do so

:24:20. > :24:22.than they ever were before. Mr Speaker, the proposal Dahmer and

:24:23. > :24:25.yes, sorry. If we were to put the best possible gloss on what the

:24:26. > :24:32.Leader of the Opposition said, and imagine that he was merely

:24:33. > :24:36.misunderstood in his intentions that he would deal in it by students.

:24:37. > :24:41.What faith can we put in the new language that is being used that

:24:42. > :24:47.they will merely look at a number of propositions? If you cannot trust

:24:48. > :24:53.what deal with means, how can we possibly trust merely look at? That

:24:54. > :24:58.is exactly right. The policy platform is collapsing before our

:24:59. > :25:01.eyes. The next step, the next inevitable step, is the party

:25:02. > :25:05.opposite abandons this albatross around their neck, which is now

:25:06. > :25:09.their policy to abolish tuition fees in their entirety. They are saddled

:25:10. > :25:12.with it. They are trying to wriggle off the hook of their clear promise

:25:13. > :25:16.to abolish student debt and they will soon be trying to get rid of

:25:17. > :25:19.this appalling albatross of getting rid of tuition fees in total. Mr

:25:20. > :25:35.Speaker, as I have said, a huge addition to our

:25:36. > :25:37.net debt from abolishing student debt, and the proposal to abolish

:25:38. > :25:39.fees, and to reinstate maintenance grants, would add to ?12 billion to

:25:40. > :25:42.the deficit. That is equivalent to not .7% of GDP and equivalent to the

:25:43. > :25:45.right Honourable member, will be interested to know, to an additional

:25:46. > :25:50.2.5 p on the basic rate of income tax. That is what the proposal to

:25:51. > :25:56.abolish tuition fees and reinstate maintenance grants is going to cost.

:25:57. > :25:59.I give way. There is a very simple procedural point that I want to make

:26:00. > :26:03.to him and that is that if you want to make dramatic changes to schemes

:26:04. > :26:07.you should take them through the House fairly and properly so that

:26:08. > :26:13.members can vote. Ministers have repeatedly said in this House that

:26:14. > :26:15.if the opposition praise against a statutory instrument, including the

:26:16. > :26:21.ones that are relevant here, there will be a vote. That promise has not

:26:22. > :26:34.been met. Will he make that promise again now? As I said in my opening

:26:35. > :26:39.remarks, we have had a lot of votes of student finance issues and we won

:26:40. > :26:41.them all. We won them all. The statutory instrument in question has

:26:42. > :26:43.been in force for six months and it went through all the parliamentary

:26:44. > :26:46.process and then play bad every opportunity to push for votes at the

:26:47. > :26:48.correct time. The party opposite is now six months too late. These

:26:49. > :26:51.regulations have been in force for six months. Mr Speaker, let us be

:26:52. > :26:54.clear, abolishing fees and reinstating maintenance grants would

:26:55. > :26:59.add ?12 billion to the national deficit, the equivalent of 0.7% of

:27:00. > :27:06.GDP, equal to an extra 2.5 p on the basic rate of tax. Now, when we

:27:07. > :27:11.reformed student finance in 2011 we put in place a system designed to

:27:12. > :27:14.make higher education accessible to all. Students are now supported by a

:27:15. > :27:19.system of government subsidised loans which are only repayable when

:27:20. > :27:22.students earn more than ?21,000. Controlling the cost of higher

:27:23. > :27:27.education to the general taxpayer, who has to fund public spending in

:27:28. > :27:29.this way, allowed us critically to remove the cap on student numbers

:27:30. > :27:40.and ensure that higher education is available to all, with the potential

:27:41. > :27:45.to benefit from it. He is quite rightly pointing out that there will

:27:46. > :27:49.be a cost to the public purse for how we fund higher education, but

:27:50. > :27:53.his own government will be aware that 45% of all lanes that are taken

:27:54. > :27:59.out never repaid and after the 30 year role 70% of students have a

:28:00. > :28:02.outstanding debt payable. As it figures to fit whether that money

:28:03. > :28:06.that the government ultimately has to pay from the student loan book

:28:07. > :28:08.could be better used to reduce the cost of tuition fees now and allow

:28:09. > :28:19.more students to go to university. He is correct to say there is a

:28:20. > :28:23.government contribution and it is a direct subsidy towards the skills

:28:24. > :28:26.base of this country to allow more people from disadvantaged

:28:27. > :28:31.backgrounds to go without finance being a barrier. We want people to

:28:32. > :28:35.pursue worthwhile, socially valuable careers that might not lead to such

:28:36. > :28:41.high earning, and we also want people to be able to take on

:28:42. > :28:44.child-bearing responsibilities, family rearing responsibilities, and

:28:45. > :28:49.these are all reasons why the state will continue to make a contribution

:28:50. > :28:54.towards the loan. I'm going to make some progress. I've given away a

:28:55. > :28:57.number of times. The move to a predominantly lone-base system has

:28:58. > :28:59.also allowed us to increase the level of financial support to

:29:00. > :29:06.disadvantaged students. I'm pleased to say that the application rate for

:29:07. > :29:10.students from disadvantaged backgrounds is at an all-time high.

:29:11. > :29:14.We've also seen record numbers of black and minority ethnic students

:29:15. > :29:17.going into higher education over recent years. There is more to be

:29:18. > :29:26.done but we're making progress and the effectiveness of our system and

:29:27. > :29:30.our form has been recognised the OECD -- by the OECD saying the UK

:29:31. > :29:34.has been able to meet rising demand for tertiary education with more

:29:35. > :29:41.resources by finding effective ways to share the costs and the benefits.

:29:42. > :29:45.This Government remains... September 2016, that quote is from. This

:29:46. > :29:51.Government remains committed to providing a fair deal for students

:29:52. > :29:55.to ensure Engen's universities are sustainably financed. This has

:29:56. > :30:05.enabled them to maintain their world-class standing. -- England's

:30:06. > :30:08.universities. I represent Oxford West that has two great

:30:09. > :30:11.universities, and they are both telling me they face huge

:30:12. > :30:15.uncertainty because of Brexit, not least because they don't know the

:30:16. > :30:19.fee arrangements for university students from Europe. What is the

:30:20. > :30:25.minister doing about this point if he wants to make sure they are well

:30:26. > :30:29.funded for the future? On the specific point she raises about EU

:30:30. > :30:32.students, we have provided significant clarity. They will

:30:33. > :30:38.continue to be eligible for access to loans in the years up to 2019, so

:30:39. > :30:41.this has provided the clarity they need. They know that for the

:30:42. > :30:48.duration of their studies, they will be able to come, access home fee

:30:49. > :30:54.status and access our loan book. The ?9,000 fee cap we set in 2012 is

:30:55. > :31:00.worth just ?8,500 in real terms, and if we leave it and changed, it will

:31:01. > :31:04.be worth ?8,000 by the end of this Parliament. We cannot let that

:31:05. > :31:07.happen. It will put at risk the quality of teaching in our

:31:08. > :31:12.universities and undermine the financial sustainability of the

:31:13. > :31:16.sector. As chair of the business Select Committee, prior to the

:31:17. > :31:25.tripling of the tuition fees in 2012, the Select Committee held a

:31:26. > :31:30.session which they interviewed the then Secretary of State for

:31:31. > :31:33.Education, and the quote says, when the government's economic policies

:31:34. > :31:37.have produced the successful outcome we all expect, we can return to the

:31:38. > :31:40.question of how universities can be supported in a more generous way.

:31:41. > :31:47.But at the moment we face a massive financial crisis. The proposals are

:31:48. > :31:53.actually less generous, not more generous. Are we still in a

:31:54. > :31:55.financial crisis? And if not, when will the minister and current

:31:56. > :32:04.government live up to the commitment given by that minister? I'm puzzled

:32:05. > :32:15.by that intervention. Al university per student funding is up 25% as the

:32:16. > :32:19.result of our reforms. -- our university per student funding. It

:32:20. > :32:25.is better than at any point in the last 30 years. We should not

:32:26. > :32:29.forget... OK. Is it not the case that if these fee increases don't go

:32:30. > :32:33.through, we are effectively cutting spending on universities? Is it not

:32:34. > :32:41.the case that we should be fighting cuts and opposing Labour's plan to

:32:42. > :32:45.cut spending on higher education? Indeed, our system of finance is

:32:46. > :32:49.allowing universities to be sustainably funded. Funding per

:32:50. > :32:52.student is up 25%. We will put all of that at risk if we go anywhere

:32:53. > :33:00.near the funding platform of the party opposite. Is it not true that

:33:01. > :33:04.the party opposite is now feigning confusion over Parliamentary process

:33:05. > :33:09.on this? Having deliberately created their own confusion? The reality on

:33:10. > :33:14.the doorsteps across Eastleigh is that the promised to deal with it

:33:15. > :33:20.could also include covering bank overdrafts. With the minister agree

:33:21. > :33:24.this is empty promise for an... Well, I think a mathematically

:33:25. > :33:32.illiterate, that's the word I'm looking for! It's going well! But

:33:33. > :33:40.the reality is, bank overdrafts were to be dealt with just a student

:33:41. > :33:43.loans. That just shows the extent to which the party opposite misled the

:33:44. > :33:48.country in the run-up to the general election. And I think they are owed

:33:49. > :33:53.an apology. The constituents of my right honourable friend in

:33:54. > :33:56.Eastleigh. Let's not forget it was a labour government under Prime

:33:57. > :34:02.Minister Tony Blair that sensibly put in place these legal powers we

:34:03. > :34:08.used some six months ago to put in place the ability to increase fees

:34:09. > :34:11.in line with inflation through a negative procedure. However, under

:34:12. > :34:15.the regulations we debate today, rather than increasing fees for

:34:16. > :34:19.everyone, we are only allowing providers to maintain their fees in

:34:20. > :34:23.line with inflation if they can demonstrate they are using these

:34:24. > :34:30.resources well in terms of providing a high quality of teaching and good

:34:31. > :34:35.outcomes for their students. Universities UK and guilt HD, the

:34:36. > :34:39.two main representative bodies that represent over 170 higher education

:34:40. > :34:43.providers, have made it clear that allowing the value of these to be

:34:44. > :34:48.maintained in real terms is essential if our providers are to

:34:49. > :34:53.continue to deliver high-quality teaching. And to quote Gordon

:34:54. > :34:58.McKenzie, the CEO of guilt HD, he made it clear fees had to rise by

:34:59. > :35:01.inflation at some point and it was fairer for students if those rises

:35:02. > :35:07.were linked to an assessment of quality as the Government is doing.

:35:08. > :35:11.I thank him for giving way. University education is also a route

:35:12. > :35:16.to higher earnings over a lifetime. Up to a quarter of ?1 million. If we

:35:17. > :35:21.did go forward with the party opposite's plans to abolish tuition

:35:22. > :35:26.fees, that could damage the prospect of the disadvantaged. We saw that in

:35:27. > :35:30.Scotland and a number of people from disadvantaged communities there

:35:31. > :35:34.applying for university. The policy would do the opposite of what they

:35:35. > :35:38.say they would do. There would be a huge setback to social mobility in

:35:39. > :35:43.this country, it would be bad for taxpayers, who would be left

:35:44. > :35:45.shoulder in the entire cost of the higher education system, and it

:35:46. > :35:50.would leave the finances of our university system in tatters.

:35:51. > :35:55.Professor Steve Smith, the vice Chancellor of Exeter University, has

:35:56. > :35:59.said, the teaching framework allows us the opportunity to invest in the

:36:00. > :36:05.students and their futures, the long-term success of our country,

:36:06. > :36:07.and the outstanding teaching, and the Government rightly wants

:36:08. > :36:13.something for something for the economy and for students. I give

:36:14. > :36:17.way. I am grateful. I am shocked the vice chancellors want to see tuition

:36:18. > :36:21.fees rise. This comes as a complete surprise to everyone. The minister

:36:22. > :36:25.surely will be able to confirm today that tomorrow he is very likely to

:36:26. > :36:32.use powers to once again increased tuition fees to a higher level. And

:36:33. > :36:35.once we get to 19-20, under the act passed under the last election, we

:36:36. > :36:39.will have to have votes in Parliament to allow an facilitate

:36:40. > :36:44.these rises, so if we are going to be doing that in the future, why not

:36:45. > :36:48.do it now? As I've already made clear on a number of occasions,

:36:49. > :36:50.these regulations have been in place for months and they are already

:36:51. > :36:58.applying across the sector. Widening participation is an important policy

:36:59. > :37:02.objective for this Government. That is alongside incentivising teaching,

:37:03. > :37:05.and the fees have allowed us to lift the student number cap. This is

:37:06. > :37:09.allowing more people than ever before to benefit from a university

:37:10. > :37:14.education. And as I said, disadvantaged 18-year-olds are now

:37:15. > :37:21.43% more likely to go to university than in 2009, and a 52% more likely

:37:22. > :37:25.to go to a high-tariff institution. For the last application cycle, the

:37:26. > :37:33.entry rate for 18-year-olds from disadvantaged backgrounds is at a

:37:34. > :37:37.record high. 19.5% in 2016 compared with 13.6% in 2009. The application

:37:38. > :37:42.rate and actual number of English 18-year-olds is at record level for

:37:43. > :37:46.applicants in this entry cycle. This Government has made clear that

:37:47. > :37:49.finance should not be a barrier to going to university, which is why we

:37:50. > :37:53.have made more funding available to students. In a minute... By

:37:54. > :37:57.replacing maintenance grants and loans we've been able to increase

:37:58. > :38:01.the funding for living costs are some of the most disadvantaged

:38:02. > :38:07.students. It is an increase of over 10% in the current academic year,

:38:08. > :38:10.with a further 2.8% increase for 2017-18. We have worked with the

:38:11. > :38:17.office of fair access to encourage universities to do more to help

:38:18. > :38:25.disadvantaged students in 27-18, when institutions are expected to

:38:26. > :38:31.spend over ?8 million. -- in 17-18. This is more than double the amount

:38:32. > :38:36.spent in the year 2009-10. I am grateful to him for giving way. I'm

:38:37. > :38:40.sure he will be aware that our education exports last year exceeded

:38:41. > :38:43.those of our insurance industry, mainly fuelled by the excellence of

:38:44. > :38:48.our universities. If we don't fund them properly, we're not going to

:38:49. > :38:54.maintain the world-class of our universities. Yes, it is essential

:38:55. > :38:59.for them to continue to attract international students from around

:39:00. > :39:02.the world. Moving to the system of the party opposite is advocating we

:39:03. > :39:05.would leave the finances in tatters and it would be hugely damaging to

:39:06. > :39:09.the quality of teaching they can offer. Whilst we're making good

:39:10. > :39:13.progress on widening participation, more can be done, and we are doing

:39:14. > :39:18.more. For example, in the latest guidance given by the director of

:39:19. > :39:21.fair access we have acknowledged that selective institutions,

:39:22. > :39:25.including Oxbridge and parts of the Russell Group, already do much to

:39:26. > :39:33.increase access. But it is harder to see more progress is made. In the

:39:34. > :39:38.Act, we are strengthening our approach by putting an overarching

:39:39. > :39:44.duty to consider the promotion of equality and opportunity and access

:39:45. > :39:47.and participation in all that it does. The new director will have a

:39:48. > :39:55.clear role looking right across the full student life-cycle. The member

:39:56. > :39:58.offer has been trundling -- has been talking about dropout rates. I would

:39:59. > :40:04.like to inform him that the dropout rates are lower now for all

:40:05. > :40:07.students, young, mature, disadvantaged and those from black

:40:08. > :40:13.and minority and ethnic backgrounds, then when we came into office in

:40:14. > :40:16.2010. And we are taking all the steps I have just mentioned to make

:40:17. > :40:24.sure they stay among the very lowest in the OECD. The Act I've mentioned

:40:25. > :40:29.also requires individual higher education providers to publish their

:40:30. > :40:34.respective student application, offer, acceptance, dropout and

:40:35. > :40:36.attainment rates, broken down by gender, ethnicity and socio economic

:40:37. > :40:46.background through the transparency duty on the office for students.

:40:47. > :40:50.Greater transparency will push universities into further action of

:40:51. > :40:56.this area in addition to what has been achieved. With the minister

:40:57. > :41:00.confirmed that applications from mature students were actually down

:41:01. > :41:05.by 18% in the last year alone? And if we look at 2011-12, applications

:41:06. > :41:14.for part-time applicants were actually down by a massive 30%. He

:41:15. > :41:17.makes an important point, and I acknowledge. But he needs to

:41:18. > :41:21.understand their complex reasons for it, including the rapid increase in

:41:22. > :41:25.the proportion of people entering Highridge condition at a young age

:41:26. > :41:29.is 18-year-olds. This means there is a smaller stock of students seeking

:41:30. > :41:35.to participate in part-time mature study later in life. -- entering

:41:36. > :41:38.higher education a young age. We also have one of the most buoyant

:41:39. > :41:41.labour markets of anywhere in the world, which increases the

:41:42. > :41:45.opportunity cost for study for people later on in life at a time

:41:46. > :41:50.when they would otherwise be earning some -- significant sums of money.

:41:51. > :41:53.But we recognise there is a full and we are taking significant steps to

:41:54. > :41:59.address some of the financial barriers mature students are taking.

:42:00. > :42:02.-- we recognise there is a fall. So we will be introducing a part-time

:42:03. > :42:09.maintenance grant on the same basis as the current full-time equivalent

:42:10. > :42:15.grant. On the point of disadvantage, before young people get to

:42:16. > :42:18.university, they have to go through the full-time education system.

:42:19. > :42:31.Would he therefore congratulate the Lincolnshire Conservative council on

:42:32. > :42:38.its move to provide bus passes for full-time students at 16, down from

:42:39. > :42:46.?200 to ?30, which is another indication that they would do

:42:47. > :42:50.something very different in power. Turning to the repayment of loans,

:42:51. > :42:55.our repayment system offers a fair deal to students. The current system

:42:56. > :42:59.is deliberately subsidised by the taxpayer and it is universally

:43:00. > :43:01.accessible to all students regardless of their personal

:43:02. > :43:06.financial circumstances or credit history. Our system is based on

:43:07. > :43:10.income, not the amount borrowed. Graduates with post-2012 loans pay

:43:11. > :43:15.back only when they are earning more than ?21,000, and then only 9% of

:43:16. > :43:23.earnings above that threshold, and then after 30 years the debt is

:43:24. > :43:29.written off altogether with no recourse to the student and their

:43:30. > :43:33.other assets. It is being capped so it will not be increased in real

:43:34. > :43:36.terms for anyone going to university. We believe it is right

:43:37. > :43:40.for those who benefit most to contribute most to the cost of it.

:43:41. > :43:44.We should not forget that higher education leads to average net

:43:45. > :43:51.lifetime earnings comfortably over ?100,000. To conclude, the party

:43:52. > :43:55.opposite continues to scaremonger about changes to higher education.

:43:56. > :44:01.The Conservative-led coalition introduced important reforms. They

:44:02. > :44:04.have promised to write a student debts, to cut tuition fees and to

:44:05. > :44:08.restore maintenance grants. However, they have failed to set out a

:44:09. > :44:12.credible plan as to how they would fund their promises and now

:44:13. > :44:15.shamelessly abandoning them just weeks after the general election.

:44:16. > :44:20.That is hardly surprising given that they hadn't even managed to persuade

:44:21. > :44:25.key figures in the Labour Party who had served in its former

:44:26. > :44:29.governments. Take, for example, Lord Mandelson, who said their policy was

:44:30. > :44:33.not credible and urged Labour to be honest about the cost of providing

:44:34. > :44:39.higher education, and it wasn't just Lord Mandelson. The former Shadow

:44:40. > :44:44.Chancellor Ed Balls said his party's failure to identify a sustainable

:44:45. > :44:51.funding mechanism was "A blot on Labour's copybook". So I challenge

:44:52. > :44:54.the opposition to say how they would fund the proposals on tuition fees,

:44:55. > :45:00.maintenance grants and the write-off of student debt. We estimate the

:45:01. > :45:05.annual cost of this policy to be 12 billion a year in addition to the

:45:06. > :45:10.one-off expenditure required to make good the promise of writing off

:45:11. > :45:17.historic student debt to the tune of ?89.3 billion in cash costs. And if

:45:18. > :45:20.Labour wanted to go the whole hog, a further ?14 billion would be

:45:21. > :45:24.required to compensate graduates the historical borrowing they have

:45:25. > :45:29.already repaid. Make no mistake, Labour's policy of abolishing fees

:45:30. > :45:32.would be a calamity. It would be ruinous for our world-class

:45:33. > :45:36.university sector, leading to a falling per student funding of the

:45:37. > :45:43.same magnitude we saw in the decades before the introduction of the

:45:44. > :45:47.top-up fees. It would lead to the inevitable reimposition of student

:45:48. > :45:50.number controls, which would cause the poorest and most disadvantaged

:45:51. > :45:54.to miss out on university, throwing social mobility into reverse. And it

:45:55. > :45:58.would do all of this at an eye watering cost to the hard-working

:45:59. > :46:03.general taxpayer, whether he or she had been to university or not. On

:46:04. > :46:06.would be the concept of a fairer sharing out of the cost of

:46:07. > :46:15.university between graduates, with higher than average lifetime

:46:16. > :46:16.earnings, and society at large. Bad for universities, bad for students,

:46:17. > :46:24.bad for the taxpayer. It is no surprise that in the one

:46:25. > :46:29.place that the Labour Party is in power they have chosen a different

:46:30. > :46:34.approach. Last week the government in Wales quietly increased tuition

:46:35. > :46:39.fees, making them marginally higher than the current rates in England.

:46:40. > :46:43.Labour in Wales at least know that the party opposite 's plans are

:46:44. > :46:53.unfettered students and ruinous to universities. Perhaps they should

:46:54. > :47:00.tell the Labour Party leader. Has the honourable gentleman finished

:47:01. > :47:06.his speech or is he giving way? I hope this isn't a point of debate.

:47:07. > :47:08.Thank you, Mr Speaker, I didn't want to interrupt the minister but he

:47:09. > :47:12.said his speech he claimed that the opposition and the chance to call a

:47:13. > :47:16.vote on the statutory instrument and did not do so, perhaps you could

:47:17. > :47:19.confirm for the record that in fact a prayer was laid across the

:47:20. > :47:24.regulations may have simply refused to allow the House vote since. I am

:47:25. > :47:27.southernmost as a particular responsibility not to misinform the

:47:28. > :47:40.House so therefore I am asking that it is clarified. The honourable lady

:47:41. > :47:43.has put me on the spot and I know the minister to be a personal

:47:44. > :47:48.incredible integrity and I do not doubt that for one moment. My

:47:49. > :47:52.recollection, and I am open to advice and possibly even scholarly

:47:53. > :47:58.correction from the source from which it usually derives is that the

:47:59. > :48:04.opposition had prayed against this set of regulations. My further

:48:05. > :48:08.recollection, and I think it is in the official report, is that the

:48:09. > :48:13.government had indicated an intention for this matter to be

:48:14. > :48:16.debated and voted upon. It is not always possible to predict the

:48:17. > :48:24.course of events but I think the commitment was made on March 31 for

:48:25. > :48:28.April 19. Members will recall, and others will be aware that on the

:48:29. > :48:34.18th -- the 19th of April this House debated to facilitate the calling of

:48:35. > :48:37.an early general election and thereafter there was a small amount

:48:38. > :48:43.of business and what we normally call the wash up session and then we

:48:44. > :48:50.departed to our constituencies so there was no debate and vote. That

:48:51. > :48:54.is how I remember it. It is not desirable for the chair to be asked

:48:55. > :48:58.to take sides between the parties and I am not taking flights between

:48:59. > :49:02.the parties and I certainly do not take sides on the merits or demerits

:49:03. > :49:07.of this issue, the Speaker should not do that. I had thought there was

:49:08. > :49:12.an expectation of a debate and vote and I had thought that the

:49:13. > :49:17.opposition had done what was necessary to maximise the chance of

:49:18. > :49:22.such a vote and I thought the government, to be honest, was open

:49:23. > :49:26.to such a debate and vote until events overtook. That is history and

:49:27. > :49:32.we are where we are and as to whether there is to be a substantive

:49:33. > :49:49.vote now, I await the development of events. I am feeling fed a note.

:49:50. > :49:52.Yes. Well, that is very helpful. Our senior clerks don't have the details

:49:53. > :50:01.but we believe you are correct. We can check. I am very grateful to the

:50:02. > :50:10.clerk who is extremely committed to the public service. Thank you. Thank

:50:11. > :50:13.you, Mr Speaker. It is a fundamental principle of the SNP that education

:50:14. > :50:21.should be based on the ability to learn, not the ability to pay. SNP

:50:22. > :50:25.MPs have a strong and principled record of opposing increases in

:50:26. > :50:30.tuition fees in England and where is and, if able, we will reject any

:50:31. > :50:34.bill that seeks to increase the financial burden on students. I

:50:35. > :50:42.personally lobbied my predecessor in this place in 1997 on the

:50:43. > :50:46.introduction of student fees then. I had never met him before and I think

:50:47. > :50:53.he's still remembers that meeting because I was incensed at the idea

:50:54. > :50:57.that students should have to pay fees. To have it introduced from a

:50:58. > :51:01.Labour government I found particularly objectionable,

:51:02. > :51:04.especially as so many of them had gone to university themselves and

:51:05. > :51:13.then pulled the ladder up behind them. The Scottish National Party,

:51:14. > :51:19.neither they nor myself have changed our views on the fact that education

:51:20. > :51:27.must be based on the ability to learn, not the ability to pay. The

:51:28. > :51:32.SNP commitment is firm and unequivocal. In 2007 the SNP 's

:51:33. > :51:39.Scottish Government abolished tuition fees and in Scotland the

:51:40. > :51:44.tuition fee policy benefits 120,000 undergraduate students every year,

:51:45. > :51:49.saving them from accruing debts of up to ?27,000 compared with their

:51:50. > :51:54.peers in other parts of the UK. Can I just make a bit more progress,

:51:55. > :51:57.please? The SNP will always guarantee to keep access to

:51:58. > :52:03.education based on the ability to learn, not the ability to pay. Since

:52:04. > :52:07.we came to office in Scotland a number of Scottish domiciled

:52:08. > :52:12.full-time first degree entrants has risen by 12%. It is also about our

:52:13. > :52:18.values and the kind of Scotland we want to live in. Scotland as a whole

:52:19. > :52:22.values free access to higher education, as do we. Unlike the

:52:23. > :52:27.Tories in Scotland we have no intention of killing our young

:52:28. > :52:34.people for their education, either upfront or after they have

:52:35. > :52:38.graduated. NUS Scotland president said in 2050 that the idea that

:52:39. > :52:44.abolishing free education, a clear recognition of the public and social

:52:45. > :52:50.good, provided by higher education, that that would improve their

:52:51. > :52:53.access, seems bizarre. Almost as bizarre as the Secretary of State

:52:54. > :52:57.for the environment 's recent comments on the Andrew Marr Show,

:52:58. > :53:02.where he actually stated that only graduates benefit from their

:53:03. > :53:11.studies. As a Scot, has he not heard of the common wheel? Everyone

:53:12. > :53:17.benefits. Society benefits from a higher tax take, it benefits by the

:53:18. > :53:23.example of teachers and doctors and lawyers and sometimes maybe even MPs

:53:24. > :53:29.for examples. I will give way. Has the honourable lady read the report

:53:30. > :53:32.by the Sutton trust, the social mobility charity, which was

:53:33. > :53:37.absolutely damning about social mobility in Scotland as a specific

:53:38. > :53:40.result of the SNP policy of capping places, and does she not deprecate

:53:41. > :53:45.the fact that social mobility in Scotland is going into reverse? I

:53:46. > :53:49.thank the honourable member for his intervention. I totally disagree

:53:50. > :53:54.with him because I am going to come onto this further on in my speech

:53:55. > :54:00.and I have practice and it is about the fact that Scottish education

:54:01. > :54:06.differs and weighs into and ways to progress through Scottish education

:54:07. > :54:09.are completely atypical. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. --

:54:10. > :54:16.should share my work frustration at the blatant gas lighting going on

:54:17. > :54:17.around the numbers of people in Scotland from disadvantaged

:54:18. > :54:21.backgrounds attending university in she agree with me that our young

:54:22. > :54:24.people of many pathways to university and if children are

:54:25. > :54:27.coming through further education colleges are included in UCAS

:54:28. > :54:32.figures, as I understand it, there are significantly higher numbers of

:54:33. > :54:35.young from disadvantaged backgrounds in Scotland going through to

:54:36. > :54:41.university in that way than in the rest of the UK. I thank my

:54:42. > :54:44.honourable friend for her intervention and I have personal

:54:45. > :54:50.experience of that as a former further education lecturer. Indeed,

:54:51. > :54:56.I am going to disseminate my wisdom on this when I take up my place on

:54:57. > :55:02.the education committee and I see the chair is sitting on the back

:55:03. > :55:06.benches opposite. It is a well-known canard, because things are different

:55:07. > :55:10.you cannot measure Scottish education by the same yardsticks

:55:11. > :55:16.that you use in England and where is because it is different. I do thank

:55:17. > :55:20.the member for giving way and this point is one I have been trying to

:55:21. > :55:24.make for some time which is that we do do things slightly different in

:55:25. > :55:29.Scotland. I once was a member of another place. The scrutiny of

:55:30. > :55:32.subordinate legislation in Scotland was very thorough indeed and it is

:55:33. > :55:35.considered whether it should be positive or negative or otherwise

:55:36. > :55:40.and at the heart of the problem here is that the instrument to which the

:55:41. > :55:44.act refers is perhaps a little too Draconian in the powers that it

:55:45. > :55:50.gives the governing party and maybe the fault lies in what was

:55:51. > :55:56.originally agreed those months ago and maybe the role of the House does

:55:57. > :56:01.not make it suitably strong. I thank the honourable gentleman for his

:56:02. > :56:04.intervention and I welcome him to his place. Yes, I think there are so

:56:05. > :56:11.many differences that trying to compare apples and pears just

:56:12. > :56:15.doesn't work. The number of... Sorry. I am grateful to the

:56:16. > :56:18.honourable lady for giving way but there are international comparators

:56:19. > :56:22.and the fact is that the SNP government record in Scotland on

:56:23. > :56:27.education as a national disgrace. There are 4000 fewer teachers, class

:56:28. > :56:30.sizes up, and of the increase in students going to university, ten

:56:31. > :56:33.times more coming from the wealthiest backgrounds that the

:56:34. > :56:39.poorest backgrounds and the gap is widening under an SNP government. If

:56:40. > :56:45.the honourable member will listen to the end of my speech, he will find I

:56:46. > :56:47.have completely refuted what he is saying because there are facts that

:56:48. > :56:53.tell a different story and just as an aside, Larry Flanagan, the

:56:54. > :56:58.secretary of the EIS in Scotland has stood up and said that Scottish

:56:59. > :57:06.education is not in the parlous state that is described, ascribed to

:57:07. > :57:14.it by other parties. That is one of your own colleagues, I believe. Now,

:57:15. > :57:23.since Scottish domiciled full-time first degree university entrance

:57:24. > :57:30.raised from 12% in 2006/72 finish up a 28,770 and 50% of these people are

:57:31. > :57:34.women. The SNP firmly believe that access to university, as I have

:57:35. > :57:38.said, is about the ability to learn and to support this the SNP

:57:39. > :57:44.government have invested record levels of funding in our

:57:45. > :57:51.universities, 5 billion since 2012/13 with a further 1 billion

:57:52. > :57:58.planned in 2017/ 18. The latest UCAS that had shown a drop in you -- the

:57:59. > :58:02.UK domiciled students applying to institutions but it is not

:58:03. > :58:05.necessarily a negative. It is further evidence that the approach

:58:06. > :58:10.taken in Scotland to ensuring young people have equal choices and

:58:11. > :58:15.chances to succeed in life is working. For example, youth

:58:16. > :58:21.unemployment has fallen from 14% since 2007 and it now stands at 8.4%

:58:22. > :58:26.and it continues to be amongst the lowest of all EU countries. A record

:58:27. > :58:30.proportion of young peoples from Scotland's most deprived communities

:58:31. > :58:37.are continuing their education, entering training or getting a job

:58:38. > :58:41.after they leave school, with 88.7% of school leavers from these

:58:42. > :58:47.communities going on to a positive initial destination. The highest

:58:48. > :58:53.ever proportion, and up since 2011/ 12. A record 93.3% of young people

:58:54. > :58:58.continuing their education, going into training, or getting a job,

:58:59. > :59:03.including modern apprenticeships after leaving school. This is a good

:59:04. > :59:04.news story. They do not all want to go to university. Many of them want

:59:05. > :59:15.to earn and learn. According to the Scottish funding

:59:16. > :59:19.council, 85% of education students go on to a positive destinations

:59:20. > :59:28.such as further study, training or employment. In 2015, almost 12,000

:59:29. > :59:33.more students in higher education at college successfully completed

:59:34. > :59:38.full-time courses leading to a recognised qualification than in

:59:39. > :59:43.2008-9. I know about this because I taught in a further education

:59:44. > :59:49.college. People locally and in the most deprived areas of West Lothian

:59:50. > :59:57.where I taught started in further education colleges aged 16 and

:59:58. > :00:01.sometimes 15. They progressed through college. They did further

:00:02. > :00:08.education for maybe one or two years in the same place, they then

:00:09. > :00:11.continued into higher education courses and higher national stiff --

:00:12. > :00:19.certificate and diploma level, and were then able to articulate into

:00:20. > :00:25.second or third year of Scottish universities, and that's how it's

:00:26. > :00:28.done in Scotland. And it was my privilege to be part of the

:00:29. > :00:38.educational journey made by these people. Some of whom were the

:00:39. > :00:43.worst... From the worst areas. I remember one woman student who got

:00:44. > :00:47.pregnant at 15, had to leave school, came back to university, I

:00:48. > :00:50.interviewed her, saw her potential, she had no formal qualifications,

:00:51. > :00:57.and yet she ended up with a degree. And no debt. So I think that answers

:00:58. > :01:04.the honourable gentleman's question on social mobility. Thanks to free

:01:05. > :01:09.tuition, Scotland is making progress towards achieving the target of 20%

:01:10. > :01:15.of students entering university to be from Scotland's 20% most deprived

:01:16. > :01:19.communities. There is no doubt the SNP's investment in additional

:01:20. > :01:24.places for access students... My husband was an access student! He

:01:25. > :01:30.decided to go to university aged 65. He joined the local at that time

:01:31. > :01:35.Motherwell College and took an access programme, did year at

:01:36. > :01:39.college and got a place at Glasgow University. He was unable to

:01:40. > :01:43.continue his educational journey for various reasons but I know others,

:01:44. > :01:48.many others, who have followed the same route. And not only do these

:01:49. > :01:54.students go to former technical colleges or institutes of higher

:01:55. > :01:58.technology, they go on to ancient universities as well. And that is

:01:59. > :02:08.something to definitely be cherished and encouraged. With no fees. This

:02:09. > :02:14.is why the Scottish Government continues to invest ?51 million a

:02:15. > :02:17.year to support approximately 7000 places. Scotland's universities

:02:18. > :02:24.continue to attract students from around the world with the number of

:02:25. > :02:29.EU and international applications increasing by 6%, higher than the 2%

:02:30. > :02:33.increase in the UK as a whole. This is good news for Scotland and we are

:02:34. > :02:40.keen to welcome those who wish to come to Scotland to live, learn and

:02:41. > :02:44.work. The Scottish Government is determined to support our valuable

:02:45. > :02:47.higher education sector and our committed --. We are committed to

:02:48. > :02:51.working with our universities to continue to attract the very best

:02:52. > :02:56.students from around the world. The UK Government's failure to provide

:02:57. > :03:00.an offer that goes far enough to EU nationals after Brexit has had a

:03:01. > :03:10.worrying knock-on effect on applications in Scotland. Down here,

:03:11. > :03:15.the Tories are all for front door fees, while back in Scotland, the

:03:16. > :03:20.Tories are all about back door fees. If Ruth Davidson's Tories had had

:03:21. > :03:25.their way in the 2016 election, we would see the introduction of the

:03:26. > :03:32.?6,000 graduate tax in Scotland. And it would have to have been paid back

:03:33. > :03:36.when the graduates earned ?20,000. While the UK Tories want to stop

:03:37. > :03:40.international students from studying in the UK through the abolition of

:03:41. > :03:47.the vital post study work visa, the Scottish Tories wanted their EU

:03:48. > :03:56.students by threatening them with additional taxes. The Scottish

:03:57. > :04:04.Government has pledged to make sure they won't repay loan debt till they

:04:05. > :04:09.are earning ?22,000. They will have to be earning at least ?22,000 and

:04:10. > :04:13.if a small country like Scotland can do this, you know... Over the last

:04:14. > :04:16.ten years, the SNP Scottish Government has worked hard to make

:04:17. > :04:20.Scotland that this country it can be. It's no wonder that other

:04:21. > :04:26.parties are now taking their lead from the SNP on tuition fees. Labour

:04:27. > :04:30.and Tories oppose the progressive SNP policies tooth and nail for a

:04:31. > :04:34.decade. Now they've changed their minds. The SNP has oppose tuition

:04:35. > :04:40.fees since they were first introduced by Labour in 1997. They

:04:41. > :04:46.scrap them in 2008 and now Labour have said they will follow our lead

:04:47. > :04:52.in England. Imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery. Average

:04:53. > :05:00.student loan debt in Scotland continues to be the lowest in the

:05:01. > :05:16.UK. 10,500 in Scotland compared to 24,000 ?640 per student in 1516 --

:05:17. > :05:21.?24,640 per student in 20 1516. We raise the income threshold for the

:05:22. > :05:27.maximum bursary from 17 to 19,000. This will benefit an additional 2500

:05:28. > :05:34.young students and 400 independent students. Is it not the case that

:05:35. > :05:39.further education budgets in Scotland have been continually cut,

:05:40. > :05:44.and this has led to a cut of 152,000 of our young students in Scotland?

:05:45. > :05:47.Isn't it high time to do what the Conservative Party manifesto did and

:05:48. > :05:55.pledged to reverse these cuts so we are giving these young people a fair

:05:56. > :06:00.chance in life? May I refute that? When I started, and I started

:06:01. > :06:04.teaching in further education in Scotland in 1992, there were many

:06:05. > :06:08.courses in Scottish further education colleges which were in

:06:09. > :06:14.fact not vocational, they were leisure courses. In fact there was a

:06:15. > :06:19.very successful one at West Lothian College where people my age now used

:06:20. > :06:22.to go in and spend six hours a week doing art. The Scottish Government

:06:23. > :06:27.cut funding for courses like that and increased funding for vocational

:06:28. > :06:33.training. They also do huge programmes where if there has been a

:06:34. > :06:39.big loss of jobs locally, the first thing that happens when they send in

:06:40. > :06:43.a task force is the local colleges in there as well, providing

:06:44. > :06:46.short-term training courses. More people leave further education now

:06:47. > :06:56.with good qualifications and that's what matters. That is totally what

:06:57. > :07:03.matters. No, I'd like to... Yes. I'd like to continue. I'm sorry. I'm

:07:04. > :07:06.feeling a little dizzy, to be fair. Now, the SNP government isn't

:07:07. > :07:14.complacent on the issue and are committed to doing more to support

:07:15. > :07:17.students. They want to make sure supporters equitable and fair for

:07:18. > :07:21.students, particularly the most vulnerable, which is why the

:07:22. > :07:25.Scottish Government has announced and is conducting a comprehensive

:07:26. > :07:29.review on student support with an independent chair and a wide range

:07:30. > :07:33.of membership from Scotland's colleges to the National Union of

:07:34. > :07:42.Students and different other bodies. If you persist... She has been very

:07:43. > :07:44.generous giving way. She's talking about the most vulnerable students

:07:45. > :07:49.in Scotland and she also talks about being able to work and learn. Can

:07:50. > :07:51.she explained by the Scottish Government receives the

:07:52. > :07:57.apprenticeship levy and yet is only able to sponsor only a very modest

:07:58. > :07:59.30,000 apprenticeships, when 3 million apprenticeships have been

:08:00. > :08:04.awarded in the UK over the last Parliament? Yes. It will take longer

:08:05. > :08:09.than I have, but let me say one thing to that. They consulted with

:08:10. > :08:14.businesses in Scotland because Scottish Government was already

:08:15. > :08:19.doing good work with businesses and encouraging businesses to take on

:08:20. > :08:24.modern apprenticeships. And modern apprenticeships were far further

:08:25. > :08:28.advanced. The Scottish Government did not just make decisions for

:08:29. > :08:33.themselves. Actually it was an imposition almost on the Scottish

:08:34. > :08:37.Government, because we have a devolved Parliament that deals with

:08:38. > :08:41.issues like training and education. So when the UK Government introduced

:08:42. > :08:44.the new levy for all employers, we consulted with those employers and

:08:45. > :08:49.it was in agreement that we went forward. I'm not really prepared to

:08:50. > :08:59.take many more interventions. I've almost finished. In England, the

:09:00. > :09:05.terrible decision to... Sorry, in England and Wales, the decision to

:09:06. > :09:11.introduce fees and scrap bursaries for nurses is clearly having a

:09:12. > :09:15.massive effect. There is a 23% fall on last year in England. We remain

:09:16. > :09:21.committed to free tuition fees and protecting the nonsense -- non-means

:09:22. > :09:25.tested, nonrepayable nursing and midwifery bursary, which we believe

:09:26. > :09:31.is essential to insure a steady supply of trainees into the

:09:32. > :09:36.profession. -- to ensure a steady supply. If you want a highly

:09:37. > :09:39.educated workforce you should follow Scotland's example. After all,

:09:40. > :09:45.Scotland ranks at the top of the world statistics with Canada and

:09:46. > :09:52.Russia. 45% of Scotland's population aged between 25 and 64 are educated

:09:53. > :09:57.to degree level. Will the minister consider doing what the Scottish

:09:58. > :09:59.Government has done so well? Don't attempt to increase fees for

:10:00. > :10:06.students in England and Wales. Abolish them. We have world-class

:10:07. > :10:12.universities as well, and what the Scottish Government does works.

:10:13. > :10:18.Thank you. I call the chair of the Education Select Committee. The

:10:19. > :10:24.honourable gentleman is welcome to speak from a seated position if he

:10:25. > :10:28.wishes, as we have discussed. Thank you. This is an important debate and

:10:29. > :10:33.I have huge respect for my honourable friend, the minister, and

:10:34. > :10:36.all the work he has done to make a university sector better in making

:10:37. > :10:42.sure students from all backgrounds have the chance to climb the ladder

:10:43. > :10:47.of opportunity. When we consider student fees, we've got a duty of

:10:48. > :10:50.fairness, both to the taxpayer and the student, and it's right that the

:10:51. > :10:56.taxpayer doesn't bear the burden alone. I do think there are a number

:10:57. > :11:01.of principles that need to be clear when it comes to tuition fees. The

:11:02. > :11:04.first, that we help students from disadvantaged backgrounds not just

:11:05. > :11:09.get on that ladder of opportunity but actually get to the top. The

:11:10. > :11:14.second is that the interest rates that are charged off air for

:11:15. > :11:28.students, and the third is value for money. -- that are charged off their

:11:29. > :11:32.-- which are charged are fair. This year we've heard the numbers of

:11:33. > :11:37.working-class students entering top universities had fallen over the

:11:38. > :11:40.last decade. Although more of our poorest young people entering

:11:41. > :11:44.university, many are winning places at the lower and middle ranked

:11:45. > :11:50.institutions rather than those that will offer the best opportunities

:11:51. > :11:54.for higher earning graduate careers. Disadvantaged graduates will suffer

:11:55. > :11:59.even more acutely than their more affluent peers on graduation but

:12:00. > :12:03.they will also suffer a class pay gap, which means professional

:12:04. > :12:06.employees from poorer backgrounds are paid almost ?7,000 a year less

:12:07. > :12:13.than their peers from more privileged families. The honourable

:12:14. > :12:16.gentleman, my honourable friend, I should say, spoke powerfully about

:12:17. > :12:23.what he wanted to do to improve the prospects of part-time students who

:12:24. > :12:26.recognise the figures that had declined, and I welcome those and

:12:27. > :12:32.urge him to do everything possible to support those part-time students,

:12:33. > :12:34.particularly single parents on low incomes who may fear going to

:12:35. > :12:42.university because of the level of the loan. What does value for money

:12:43. > :12:47.mean in terms of a university education? Why is it that

:12:48. > :12:52.universities can charge fees but there is such a variation in the

:12:53. > :12:57.jobs that students find? And I know that my honourable friend has done a

:12:58. > :13:01.lot of work on this and the new measurements that he has introduced.

:13:02. > :13:07.But surely the time has come to look at the level of fees compared to the

:13:08. > :13:11.destination data? The reason, as I say, why people go to university, Mr

:13:12. > :13:16.Speaker, is to crime that ladder of prosperity, to improve the skills of

:13:17. > :13:20.-- is to climb that ladder and improve the skills and prosperity of

:13:21. > :13:24.our nation. If they are paying ?9,000 plus and get a good job, job

:13:25. > :13:33.done. If they are not, we need to ask the reasons why.

:13:34. > :13:39.He is making an excellent argument and does that not focus attention on

:13:40. > :13:45.the UDP and threshold because that almost reinforces the point he is

:13:46. > :13:52.making. If you make that you are paying back and if not you are not

:13:53. > :13:56.doing it anyway. I think that we need to look very carefully at the

:13:57. > :14:02.salaries of senior management of universities. If there are

:14:03. > :14:08.significant increases in the salary of top management but poor

:14:09. > :14:13.destinations then something is going wrong. I do not mind what people are

:14:14. > :14:17.running at every single person who leaves gets a good job at the end of

:14:18. > :14:23.it, but if they are not then I cannot understand why some

:14:24. > :14:31.chancellors are receiving huge increases in their pay but failing

:14:32. > :14:38.to provide good outcomes, and I am not naming those universities today.

:14:39. > :14:44.He is making a very powerful and considered speech. One area we can

:14:45. > :14:48.also look at is the length of university courses as well. The

:14:49. > :14:53.years for some courses does seem long considering the number of

:14:54. > :14:58.teaching hours. My honourable friend comes on to a point that I want to

:14:59. > :15:05.come to, which is in terms of not just the length but the way our

:15:06. > :15:09.terms are structured. I said that the beginning of my remarks that the

:15:10. > :15:14.burden on taxpayers need to be fair but we also need to be sure that the

:15:15. > :15:22.burden on students is fear. My constituent, who entered university,

:15:23. > :15:27.hard bit is around ?45,000 including the maintenance loan. I am not

:15:28. > :15:32.against student loans. I don't think that it's fear for working people in

:15:33. > :15:38.my constituency the full burden of paying for all students devote

:15:39. > :15:42.university, however, I do think that value for money also means the level

:15:43. > :15:46.of interest rates, and in the United States the level of interest rates

:15:47. > :15:51.is much lower. As my honourable friend has just said, they have

:15:52. > :15:55.quite a few months in the year where students can go out and have more

:15:56. > :16:02.opportunities to work and pay back the loans, I think that too many

:16:03. > :16:09.people, that interest rates, which is quite high as he will know, does

:16:10. > :16:13.put people off, and I encourage him to look at this and see what can be

:16:14. > :16:20.done to possibly have similar system like in the United States. Not all

:16:21. > :16:24.courses on institutions offer the same opportunities for employment

:16:25. > :16:31.after graduating. He has still a degree from a Russell group

:16:32. > :16:35.universities Cadell nude double the same degree from a less litigious

:16:36. > :16:42.institution. University graduates out our they are non-grad peers but

:16:43. > :16:48.the gap seems to be narrowing. The value of degree declines as the

:16:49. > :16:51.supply of graduates has outstripped demand, and the IFS recently warned

:16:52. > :16:56.that further increases in the number of graduates would lead to financial

:16:57. > :16:59.gains of a degree lessening. If I could make a final point which my

:17:00. > :17:06.honourable friend will note I am very passionate about. Everyone

:17:07. > :17:10.knows that I strongly believe in apprenticeships, and the menace that

:17:11. > :17:15.is a huge supporter of degree apprenticeships. It is very

:17:16. > :17:20.important that all students know there is a choice, a chance that we

:17:21. > :17:26.can offer people an apprenticeship all the way from level two up to

:17:27. > :17:31.degree level. I think we need as much investment as possible because

:17:32. > :17:36.there is no alone, they earn more money, they are virtually guaranteed

:17:37. > :17:41.to get a job after words, they get skills and training that they need,

:17:42. > :17:53.and it would be a huge burden to people from disadvantaged

:17:54. > :17:56.backgrounds. -- huge boon. This would transform the nature of the

:17:57. > :18:02.debate, particularly for those from disadvantaged backgrounds. Thank

:18:03. > :18:06.you, at this stage as colleagues will be aware I have not imposed any

:18:07. > :18:13.time limit on backbench speeches, and would prefer not to have to do

:18:14. > :18:19.so, but it might be a helpful guide to colleagues if I say that a seven

:18:20. > :18:23.minute speech by each colleague would probably enable live to

:18:24. > :18:27.contribute. If somebody goes on longer, let that member be clear, he

:18:28. > :18:32.or she is stopping other members from speaking which would seem

:18:33. > :18:36.rather unfair. Thank you and I am pleased to follow the honourable

:18:37. > :18:40.member, I congratulate him on his election to the chair of the select

:18:41. > :18:46.committee and his thoughtful contribution to the debate, which I

:18:47. > :18:51.am sure bodes well for the future. I represent more students than any

:18:52. > :18:54.other member of this house, some 36,000 at the last count, and

:18:55. > :19:00.consequently cheer the all-party parliamentary group on students. I

:19:01. > :19:05.represent many post-2012 graduates as well. We have been described as

:19:06. > :19:09.generation rent and we may well describe them as generation debt.

:19:10. > :19:14.The poor are the family they come from the greater the debt as a

:19:15. > :19:21.result of the government's actions, the IFS have reported debts of up to

:19:22. > :19:25.?57,000. It is five years since the coalition government forced through

:19:26. > :19:33.the ?9,000 fees, but the impact is only beginning to take effect. This

:19:34. > :19:38.recent election was the first to be held some students started

:19:39. > :19:43.graduating, with the debt as a consequence of ?9,000 fees. In May

:19:44. > :19:50.2015 they hadn't started to, and as a consequence the issue took centre

:19:51. > :19:56.stage in the election. And it's not just for generation debt but for the

:19:57. > :20:02.parents do and it is an issue apparently for some senior members

:20:03. > :20:07.of the government, because even the Prime Minister's deputy, the first

:20:08. > :20:10.Secretary of State, says we need to have, in a way that contradicts the

:20:11. > :20:17.confidence of the minister, a National D-Day on the issue, and he

:20:18. > :20:20.is right, we do. This is only an opening salvo. We need to look at

:20:21. > :20:25.how we can provide the funding that our universities need to maintain

:20:26. > :20:30.the world leading position and we need to do it without burdening our

:20:31. > :20:34.young people with unsustainable debt and that is the big challenge, and

:20:35. > :20:38.there are some immediate things the government could do as well.

:20:39. > :20:49.Firstly, they could scrap the proposed increase in interest rates

:20:50. > :20:55.to 6.1% from the current 4.6%. Mr Speaker, 6.1%, when base rate is

:20:56. > :21:02.0.25 and average mortgages are less than 4%, this is an automatic rise

:21:03. > :21:07.based on a formula of RPI plus 3%, well, the formula is wrong. It means

:21:08. > :21:14.is estimated that students are accruing an average of ?5,800 of

:21:15. > :21:19.debt and interest during their studies, before they even have the

:21:20. > :21:25.chance to start paying it off. And as the former skills minister and

:21:26. > :21:33.member for Grantham and Stanford argued, it is unutterably depressing

:21:34. > :21:37.for hard-working students to see the amount they all spiralling up boards

:21:38. > :21:41.before they have even started paying it off, and the greatest burden is

:21:42. > :21:46.on the students from the poorest holds, so will the Minister today

:21:47. > :21:50.hear what his colleagues are saying. Hear what students and parents are

:21:51. > :21:55.saying, what the House is saying, and commit to press the Chancellor

:21:56. > :22:01.to scrap the proposed increase in the interest rate and to review the

:22:02. > :22:05.formula. The second thing the government should do immediately is

:22:06. > :22:09.reintroduced maintenance grants for students from low-income households.

:22:10. > :22:14.That was a central part of the package put together in 2012.

:22:15. > :22:19.Whether that commitment, this house would probably not have passed the

:22:20. > :22:25.proposals which saw tuition fees rise because it mitigated the impact

:22:26. > :22:29.of trebling the those fees, and frankly, to scrap plans for the

:22:30. > :22:33.poorest at the first opportunity after the election says a lot about

:22:34. > :22:38.this government's priorities and went a long way to undermining

:22:39. > :22:42.confidence in the system. While we on the question of confidence in the

:22:43. > :22:49.system, the government should think again on the retrospective changes

:22:50. > :22:52.to the of repayment. Making graduates pay for their

:22:53. > :22:56.miscalculation of the cost of the funding system and the escalating

:22:57. > :23:01.charge, the minister says it was a conscious decision and he knows well

:23:02. > :23:07.enough the conscious decision that has predecessor took to the House

:23:08. > :23:11.was a charge of 28%. That rose into the 40% early and was model that

:23:12. > :23:17.more than 50% and the government acted by making graduates pay for

:23:18. > :23:22.the consequences of their miscalculation. Before the 2015

:23:23. > :23:25.general election, anticipating this, I asked ministers for assurances

:23:26. > :23:29.that they wouldn't be making students pay for their mistakes by

:23:30. > :23:35.changing the terms of the 2012 system. And the Minister's

:23:36. > :23:40.predecessor told me there were no plans to do so. Running into the

:23:41. > :23:44.election, promised to students now plans to change the terms of the

:23:45. > :23:50.repayments, and no sooner were the votes counted than the plans were

:23:51. > :23:52.rolled out in the 2015 budget, freezing DD payment threshold,

:23:53. > :23:57.making graduates pay more than they signed up for and the members talk

:23:58. > :24:03.about broken promises. There could be no worse breach of faith,

:24:04. > :24:07.promise, breach of contract, than that retrospective change. It is

:24:08. > :24:13.frankly fraudulent and were any other organisation in the Financial

:24:14. > :24:17.Conduct would get involved, and it undermines conduct in the system and

:24:18. > :24:22.should be reversed. -- Financial Conduct Authority. Let me highlight

:24:23. > :24:27.one further thing that should be changed and that is the decision to

:24:28. > :24:33.scrap bursaries and introduce fees and loans for midwifery and health

:24:34. > :24:38.courses. Backward we debated the issue, the then health minister told

:24:39. > :24:45.ministers that the government wanted, and I quote, to spread to

:24:46. > :24:50.nurses the same benefits that have been realised in the rest of the

:24:51. > :24:55.student population. Some of us in that debate expressed some

:24:56. > :25:00.scepticism that nurses and midwives would see ?30,000 of debt as a

:25:01. > :25:04.benefit, and we warned that those courses that still provided a route

:25:05. > :25:08.into professional careers from those put off university by thieves,

:25:09. > :25:13.mature students and those from other low-income backgrounds, we warned

:25:14. > :25:20.applications would fall at a time when we need more nurses, and those

:25:21. > :25:30.concerns were cavalierly dismissed by this government. -- put off

:25:31. > :25:36.university by fees. In Sheffield you -- in Sheffield Hallam University we

:25:37. > :25:39.have seen a drop of 22% in numbers. The government were clearly wrong

:25:40. > :25:47.and they have been wrong time and again. We need a fresh start in this

:25:48. > :25:51.whole policy area. Thank you, Mr Speaker. At the general election the

:25:52. > :25:55.party opposite managed to rally an extraordinary number of young people

:25:56. > :26:01.to their cause. In one constituency we even had young people standing on

:26:02. > :26:04.roundabouts with vote Labour signs. I am sure many members opposite will

:26:05. > :26:10.concede that they have those warts to thank for a vast place in the

:26:11. > :26:13.House today. It is not easy to see why students were attempted. Not

:26:14. > :26:19.only did they promise to abolish tuition fees but top of forgetting

:26:20. > :26:22.all student loan debt, an extraordinary expensive undertaking.

:26:23. > :26:27.I wonder what those young voters must think now that really a month

:26:28. > :26:32.on from the election, desperately trying as they are to downgrade this

:26:33. > :26:35.to an aspiration, or to look at Wales, the only corner of the

:26:36. > :26:42.kingdom where the party opposite Alan Power, actually increasing

:26:43. > :26:45.fees, despite having attacked them during the campaign. What goes

:26:46. > :26:49.around comes around and I will inform the House today that the film

:26:50. > :26:56.of the Labour Party effectively backtracking on this promise has

:26:57. > :26:59.been sheared 1.3 million times, so perhaps at the next general election

:27:00. > :27:06.those roundabouts will not be quite so full of young students holding up

:27:07. > :27:10.signs for the party opposite. Perhaps the Labour Party now realise

:27:11. > :27:15.they are progressive elements to the tuition fees system. I will not give

:27:16. > :27:18.way at the moment. Loans are available on the progressive system

:27:19. > :27:24.to everybody. They are only paid back when the student is earning

:27:25. > :27:28.enough to afford it, and when the amount is repaid and skills up with

:27:29. > :27:36.income. Effectively student loans are type of graduate tax rather than

:27:37. > :27:40.a tax on everyone, and everyone who doesn't go to university. No balers

:27:41. > :27:43.are sent out to collect on student loans and after 30 years any

:27:44. > :27:51.outstanding debt is forgiven by the government. No other Lohan has so

:27:52. > :27:54.many protections built in for a low incomes. But to focus narrowly on

:27:55. > :27:57.the repayment structure is to ignore so much of what makes the current

:27:58. > :28:03.system a good deal for the less advantaged students. It secures more

:28:04. > :28:08.places and higher quality teaching. I know there is a lot of the style

:28:09. > :28:12.in some circles for the days when university was free, but too often

:28:13. > :28:16.those people fail to acknowledge that this was only possible because

:28:17. > :28:19.the proportion of school leavers who went on to higher education was

:28:20. > :28:25.tiny. I was the first member and my family to go to university. I come

:28:26. > :28:30.from a council house and it was an unusual event at my school, to go to

:28:31. > :28:34.university, to such an extent that actually when they found out I had a

:28:35. > :28:38.place, I and a few people in my school work called on stage and at

:28:39. > :28:42.the time I went to university, only one in ten were able to take the

:28:43. > :28:44.advantage is that I have and I don't want us to go back there under any

:28:45. > :28:54.circumstances. When the previous Labour government

:28:55. > :28:57.decided to massively expand higher education, the Costa University 's

:28:58. > :29:02.balloon. It was rightly decided that those who stood to benefit should

:29:03. > :29:06.shoulder a share of the cost. The alternative was funding the entire

:29:07. > :29:11.cost from general taxation, shifting the burden to millions of people who

:29:12. > :29:15.have never had higher education or leaving it to universities to fill

:29:16. > :29:20.budget gaps themselves. Scotland illustrates the dangers of this

:29:21. > :29:24.approach. Local students, especially those from disadvantaged

:29:25. > :29:34.backgrounds, have been consistently squeezed out of Scottish

:29:35. > :29:36.universities in favour of fee-paying international students. I will not

:29:37. > :29:39.give way. Actually, I will. As all studies show, the introduction of

:29:40. > :29:42.fees in England has seen an increase in students from poorer backgrounds.

:29:43. > :29:46.On Scotland, it used to be that Scotland said to the rest of the UK

:29:47. > :29:50.we have a gold standard in education. I think it is a matter of

:29:51. > :29:56.shame that the SNP has presided over the collapse of Scottish education

:29:57. > :30:00.in the way that it has. You had your chance. As all studies show, the

:30:01. > :30:04.introduction of fees in England has seen an increase in the number of

:30:05. > :30:08.students from poorer backgrounds. Tuition fees up the opportunity to

:30:09. > :30:14.study at the repayment structure shelters them if they do not get the

:30:15. > :30:18.graduate dividends they hope for. Of course the current system is not

:30:19. > :30:22.perfect, there are legitimate questions over interest rates on

:30:23. > :30:27.loans, and especially about the fact that almost every university charges

:30:28. > :30:31.the maximum amount of these. Press signal should be an important way

:30:32. > :30:35.for students to gain the value of a degree course, and I think some

:30:36. > :30:40.courses at too lob and if they were limited timescale it would bring

:30:41. > :30:45.down the cost for all. But abolishing fees and giving debts

:30:46. > :30:49.that will only be repaid by high earners and replace it with a system

:30:50. > :30:56.which taxes those who do not benefit or Leeds University is fighting

:30:57. > :31:03.other high income candidates will be a ferocious attack on opportunity

:31:04. > :31:08.and social mobility. Thank you. Maiden speech, Liz twist.

:31:09. > :31:13.Thank you, Mr Speaker for allowing me to make my maiden speech in this

:31:14. > :31:18.important debate on tuition fees, a subject which came up time and time

:31:19. > :31:22.again on the doorstep in Blaydon. I know this debate will be of interest

:31:23. > :31:26.to many constituents. I would like to start by thanking the people of

:31:27. > :31:34.Blaydon constituency for electing me to represent them here. It is a

:31:35. > :31:39.great privilege. Some of you may one have heard of Blaydon through our

:31:40. > :31:46.local anthem, The Blaydon Races, played proudly by many a brass band

:31:47. > :31:51.at the Durham Miners' Keylor. You will be happy to hear that I will

:31:52. > :31:57.not be bursting into song in this chamber, partly due to the Dann

:31:58. > :32:02.decorum and a lack of musical talent. But it remains a scene and a

:32:03. > :32:07.constant symbol of our proud and sometimes raucous local history. It

:32:08. > :32:12.is customary in maiden speeches to talk about your predecessor, for me

:32:13. > :32:16.it is not just a tradition but a matter of great personal pleasure to

:32:17. > :32:22.talk about my great friends and comrades Dave Anderson. Dave said

:32:23. > :32:26.Blaydon very well in the 12 years he was in this house and was and still

:32:27. > :32:30.is a great champion of working people, not just in Blaydon but

:32:31. > :32:36.throughout the trade union movement, working most recently on the shrews

:32:37. > :32:41.be 24 campaign with Ricky Tomlinson. As a former Unison President, he

:32:42. > :32:45.spoke up for the public service workers who do so much to deliver

:32:46. > :32:52.the vital services we all need. Dave will also be remembered here for his

:32:53. > :32:56.work as chair of the APPG on muscular dystrophy, a campaign close

:32:57. > :33:01.to his heart as it affected his family, and for which he twice

:33:02. > :33:06.achieved Charity champion awards. In my maiden speech I want to talk

:33:07. > :33:11.about the community is making up the constituency, which takes in rural

:33:12. > :33:15.areas, industrial sites macro and areas of great natural beauty,

:33:16. > :33:24.representing the traditions past and present of Blaydon. From Chopwell in

:33:25. > :33:29.the West, separated from county Durham by the River Derwent, known

:33:30. > :33:35.as Little Moscow for its strong Socialist links, defined by its

:33:36. > :33:42.strong community links Amber Chopwell Woods, thankfully saved

:33:43. > :33:51.from being sold off in 2011. Moving to Crawcrook and Greenside, where I

:33:52. > :33:55.was happy to open the community picnic last year. I opened at the

:33:56. > :34:06.community and the band through the village on the way to Durham for the

:34:07. > :34:10.miners' Gala. And onto Ryton with a beautiful way along the river Tyne.

:34:11. > :34:14.The Blaydon horse races long replaced by a road race on the 9th

:34:15. > :34:23.of June each year and where you can still see hundreds of people ganning

:34:24. > :34:31.along Scotswood Road is, to take part in the and then to Whickham

:34:32. > :34:37.where a lost garden was recreated. And also to the other former mining

:34:38. > :34:40.community of Sunniside. Winlaton and high spend where the red kite

:34:41. > :34:43.flourishes that are being reintroduced some years ago. It was

:34:44. > :34:48.magnificent to see them high overhead as we knocked on doors. And

:34:49. > :34:53.the communities of Birtley, lengthy, Kibblesworth on the magnificent

:34:54. > :34:57.angel of the North. Created by Antony Gormley, it looms over the A1

:34:58. > :35:00.and surrounding landscape, demonstrating the strength and

:35:01. > :35:13.endurance of our local communities. Sadly I never managed to identify

:35:14. > :35:16.the angel's voting intentional but I think I could guess. Blaydon is open

:35:17. > :35:18.for business, taking in much of the team Valley trading estate at the

:35:19. > :35:23.Metrocentre, representing manufacturing and retail. And I must

:35:24. > :35:30.mention Della Roux, which produces passports at Blaydon, and many

:35:31. > :35:35.others. Like so many areas, the people of Blaydon have had much to

:35:36. > :35:40.deal with. They have felt the impact of austerity. Too many of my

:35:41. > :35:45.constituents have been hit hard by the bedroom tax, benefit sanctions,

:35:46. > :35:50.reassessments for EFA or PIP, too many without money to buy the

:35:51. > :35:55.necessities of life for family, like food or money to pay for gas and

:35:56. > :35:59.electric. It is fortunate for them that we have a well-established food

:36:00. > :36:14.bank in Blaydon, and I must pay tribute to the Reverend Tracey Hume

:36:15. > :36:18.who has worked with so many volunteers to make sure that those

:36:19. > :36:21.who need help get it. What they do is magnificent but should not be

:36:22. > :36:24.needed in 2017. Then there are 1950s born women who tell me how badly

:36:25. > :36:26.they have been hit by the equalisation of state pensions. It

:36:27. > :36:29.cannot be right or just. I must declare an interest as a woman born

:36:30. > :36:31.in the 1950s. Sadly, unlike me, most of them cannot take up an

:36:32. > :36:36.apprenticeship in this house and must manage as best they can, but I

:36:37. > :36:41.intend to do all I can to work for them. We all come to the house not

:36:42. > :36:44.just with a passion for politics but a personal history influencing

:36:45. > :36:50.issues we care about. I want to share mine. 17 years ago my husband

:36:51. > :36:55.Charlie ended his life by suicide. Many of you in this House will be

:36:56. > :37:00.affected by suicide, you only find out how many when it happens to you.

:37:01. > :37:04.I do not ask for sympathy, I ask for your support for action to reduce

:37:05. > :37:09.the number of people who take their lives. I am glad to be a Samaritans

:37:10. > :37:15.listening volunteer, but we need deeds as well as words to prevent

:37:16. > :37:21.suicide. In March this year Samaritans produced a report called

:37:22. > :37:26.Dying From Inequality. A rigorous academic study has shown suicide

:37:27. > :37:30.risk increases when people face and employment, job uncertainty and

:37:31. > :37:34.poverty, the very problems faced by the constituents I have talked about

:37:35. > :37:37.and many others. Two weeks ago I asked the Secretary of State for

:37:38. > :37:42.Health what action he planned to take in light of the reported

:37:43. > :37:46.anti-tilt me he always listen to the use of Samaritans, so I gave notice

:37:47. > :37:50.I would press him and other government ministers to take real

:37:51. > :37:54.action to tackle the causes leading to too many people taking their own

:37:55. > :37:58.life. As the Samaritans chief executive

:37:59. > :38:03.Rick Sutherland said, each suicide statistic as a person. The employee

:38:04. > :38:07.on zero-hours contract is somebody's parent or child. A personal list of

:38:08. > :38:13.Dutchman risk of losing their home might be a sibling or a friend, each

:38:14. > :38:16.one will leave others devastated and potentially more disadvantaged if

:38:17. > :38:19.they take their own life. This is a call for us as individuals to care

:38:20. > :38:30.more and for organisations who can make a difference to do so. I thank

:38:31. > :38:33.you for allowing me to speak in this debate and I will do all I can in

:38:34. > :38:36.this House is my constituency to speak up for the people of Blaydon

:38:37. > :38:40.and represent them in the best way that I can. I congratulate the

:38:41. > :38:44.honourable lady Ahmad wonderful maiden speech.

:38:45. > :38:47.James cartilage. A pleasure to be called and a great pleasure to

:38:48. > :38:53.follow the honourable lady for Blaydon. I congratulate her on her

:38:54. > :38:56.very moving and powerful maiden speech, especially in relation to

:38:57. > :39:02.what she said about suicides. We all share that sentiment, it is a

:39:03. > :39:06.terrible tragedy that so many still choose to take their own life. On

:39:07. > :39:10.the point about the Blaydon and some, having stood on many a

:39:11. > :39:13.football terrace hearing this song I am familiar with it, although on

:39:14. > :39:18.those occasions the lyrics might not have been so repeatable in this

:39:19. > :39:22.chamber, with the editor which they were subject. I congratulate her on

:39:23. > :39:28.her maiden speech and welcome her to the House. An important subject, and

:39:29. > :39:34.having intervened on the Shadow Minister earlier, I have great

:39:35. > :39:38.sympathy with her in the way she has maintained her composure in the face

:39:39. > :39:43.of this policy wobble over historic student debt. Nevertheless we have

:39:44. > :39:48.to accept that when we look at what the Leader of the Opposition said to

:39:49. > :39:54.the NME prior to the election, you could not form any other conclusion

:39:55. > :39:58.than to conclude that he wished to wipe out historic student debt. He

:39:59. > :40:02.said he would deal with it. Those were his words. What other

:40:03. > :40:07.conclusion could you from? The politics of this is quite cynical.

:40:08. > :40:11.If you talk about helping students, you are helping a large number of

:40:12. > :40:15.people, but a limited base of people. If you spread your policies

:40:16. > :40:21.to graduates with historic student debt you are appealing to a vast

:40:22. > :40:27.number, Sowter Renee, so clearly, I think is disappointing and

:40:28. > :40:32.deceptive. -- so to renege on that so clearly. I have four children, I

:40:33. > :40:35.worry about the thought of them going to university, should they

:40:36. > :40:40.ever get there, and racking up these enormous levels of debt. What parent

:40:41. > :40:46.wouldn't, and as a human being who would not be concerned about this

:40:47. > :40:50.level of debt? But we had to think rationally. Some of the measures we

:40:51. > :40:54.can use to ameliorate this, the chairman of the select committee

:40:55. > :40:59.talked about the interest rate, of course the way student debts are

:41:00. > :41:02.packaged up and bought is on a securitisation basis, so I would

:41:03. > :41:06.like to understand more about how that works and the redemption

:41:07. > :41:10.penalties if it is possible to change those contracts without a

:41:11. > :41:15.huge cost to the taxpayer. We would all benefit from knowing more about

:41:16. > :41:19.that. On the other point of the threshold. Happy to give way to my

:41:20. > :41:26.honourable friend. He makes a very strong point in relation to the

:41:27. > :41:29.level of interest on debt. Talking about securitisation, he will accept

:41:30. > :41:34.that because of a high proportion of the debt which is written off,

:41:35. > :41:38.effectively it is a grant and the interest rate will need to be hired

:41:39. > :41:44.to make it attractive to people who want to take on security? I suspect

:41:45. > :41:50.that is true, and it is also the case that the high interest rate

:41:51. > :41:56.enables the Godsmark to revert from the threshold under Labour to

:41:57. > :42:01.?21,000 under ourselves. My honourable friend the member for

:42:02. > :42:05.Harlow made a point but if you are able to raise the threshold at which

:42:06. > :42:10.you pay it is fairer from student insomuch as you ensure a greater

:42:11. > :42:13.quality. Because they repaid when their earnings reach a point where

:42:14. > :42:21.you think at that level it is fair to pay. But it is not cheap. If you

:42:22. > :42:25.raise the threshold to ?25,000, for example, it costs almost ?2 billion

:42:26. > :42:32.a game lost it good to the revenue, it is not a minor detail. In talking

:42:33. > :42:36.about these points we have to decide as a parliament what our priority

:42:37. > :42:43.is, what is the most important thing we want from higher education? Why

:42:44. > :42:48.do people go to university? The most important thing in my view is to