0:00:00 > 0:00:00Would it be possible for that to happen?I am sure
0:00:04 > 0:00:07the Leader of the House will take on board the views of the House and
0:00:07 > 0:00:10will want to check what information was given and I am sure the House
0:00:10 > 0:00:12matters to all members and therefore I would like to think things will be
0:00:12 > 0:00:15put in place to make sure things do not happen like that again. We now
0:00:15 > 0:00:18come to the backbench debate on the implementation of the modern slavery
0:00:18 > 0:00:20act 2015. Vernon Coaker to move. Thank you. Can I refer to my
0:00:20 > 0:00:23declaration of interests in the members register? Can I also thank
0:00:23 > 0:00:26the honourable member for Maidstone and all the other colleagues who
0:00:26 > 0:00:32have helped bring about this backbench business debate here this
0:00:32 > 0:00:37afternoon? Can I thank the Minister as well for her attendants? I know
0:00:37 > 0:00:41all members are united by their desire to do as much as we can to
0:00:41 > 0:00:47tackle the scourge of modern slavery. Over 200 years ago,
0:00:47 > 0:00:50politicians described slavery as an activity so enormous and horrible
0:00:50 > 0:00:54that there was no parallel to it in the annals of the world. Wilberforce
0:00:54 > 0:01:01said it was our duty to put a stop speediest possible to the traffic
0:01:01 > 0:01:06and sale of our fellow men, but here we are in 2017 were slavery still
0:01:06 > 0:01:10exists in our country and the horrible reality demands more than
0:01:10 > 0:01:15our emotional outrage, it demands even more action on our part. Just
0:01:15 > 0:01:2015 years ago, many MPs would have suggested that perhaps slavery did
0:01:20 > 0:01:24not exist. But thanks, and I say this to the campaign and for many
0:01:24 > 0:01:35people in this House including former colleagues, much has changed.
0:01:35 > 0:01:40Referrals into the Government's mechanism for identifying rises
0:01:40 > 0:01:47year-on-year. The number of prosecutions also rises annually. We
0:01:47 > 0:01:51have a parliament and indeed, to be fair, a Prime Minister with a
0:01:51 > 0:01:56genuine desire to tackle this issue. We have what was regarded and is to
0:01:56 > 0:02:05be fair, trailblazing act that offers life sentences for
0:02:05 > 0:02:07traffickers and provides a statutory defence against criminality for
0:02:07 > 0:02:09victims. We have additional funding going to police, international aid
0:02:09 > 0:02:14and safe houses. And the commitment from all of us in this House and
0:02:14 > 0:02:19those who work in the Home Office on this issue cannot be doubted. I hope
0:02:19 > 0:02:22the Home Secretary will accept this in the spirit that I mean it, that
0:02:22 > 0:02:25it is important to challenge where we are, and we look at what still
0:02:25 > 0:02:30needs to be done in order to take this issue forwards. For too often,
0:02:30 > 0:02:40what we say does not happen in practice. Many traffickers
0:02:40 > 0:02:42themselves are not getting caught, and those who are caught in many
0:02:42 > 0:02:44circumstances are receding minimal sentences. And many slaves are not
0:02:44 > 0:02:50being freed. When they are, and many are being lost, as the Minister
0:02:50 > 0:02:56knows, our children. The challenge for us is to find them. More
0:02:56 > 0:03:03potential victims are being identified. 3805 in 2016. I want to
0:03:03 > 0:03:08point out that 1227 of those were actually children in our country, in
0:03:08 > 0:03:152017. But it is still a long way, as the minister will know, from her own
0:03:15 > 0:03:21ministerial office's estimates of the ten to 13,000 in this country.
0:03:21 > 0:03:29So we have to ask, why is that? Why are victims not coming forward?
0:03:29 > 0:03:32Sometimes people who should recognise victims do not identify
0:03:32 > 0:03:36them. Local authorities have a duty to identify but many are not. There
0:03:36 > 0:03:41has been little funding to train their staff and as the 2016 data
0:03:41 > 0:03:47shows many local authorities find no one at all. The second reason is we
0:03:47 > 0:03:50have little to offer the victims when they are found. We ask victims
0:03:50 > 0:03:56to leave living under a trafficker's roof, risking repercussion, threats
0:03:56 > 0:04:03and violence and if adults do consent to enter the system, there
0:04:03 > 0:04:08are time-limited support, fears for their immigration status and
0:04:08 > 0:04:10long-term uncertainty, even if at the end of the process they are
0:04:10 > 0:04:14found to be victims. Should we be surprised that the small numbers? If
0:04:14 > 0:04:19we are not surprised that, what is it we're actually going to do about
0:04:19 > 0:04:24it, to actually increase that number? The National referral
0:04:24 > 0:04:28mechanism at its heart on traumatised people who have often
0:04:28 > 0:04:33only known betrayal to immediately agreed to go into a government
0:04:33 > 0:04:39system. And if they don't, they have to fend for themselves, although a
0:04:39 > 0:04:44small minority may be supported by NGOs, with the rest receiving no
0:04:44 > 0:04:49support. One NGO found outside of the national referral system, found
0:04:49 > 0:04:52three fifths of survivors will go into the national referral
0:04:52 > 0:04:59mechanism, if they are given a preliminary period of support of say
0:04:59 > 0:05:02six weeks. I would ask the Minister if she would recognise that we need
0:05:02 > 0:05:06to do more to make sure victims feel safe and secure entering the
0:05:06 > 0:05:13national referral mechanism and what the Minister proposes to do. But
0:05:13 > 0:05:19there are other problems. The statutory national recovery and
0:05:19 > 0:05:23reflection period support 45 days. That is not in itself adequate.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27Frequent delays mean an average since 95 days and it can take longer
0:05:27 > 0:05:33than that to access legal or health support. And safe suitable
0:05:33 > 0:05:37accommodation is not a given. There is not a minimum standard. Section
0:05:37 > 0:05:4150 of the slavery act gives powers to induce regulation and support
0:05:41 > 0:05:47that these have not yet been implemented. Entire families were
0:05:47 > 0:05:50example could be housed in one room, sometimes hours away from any of the
0:05:50 > 0:05:53services they need, and there is also not enough specialist
0:05:53 > 0:05:57accommodation and not just for those with children. Traffickers often
0:05:57 > 0:06:03target those with learning difficulties or addiction issues and
0:06:03 > 0:06:08yet our services for survivors oddly do not. Would the Minister tell us
0:06:08 > 0:06:10what her thoughts are about extending the amount of faith have
0:06:10 > 0:06:15provision there is for those with specialist needs, and introduce care
0:06:15 > 0:06:18standards along the lines of recommendations published by the
0:06:18 > 0:06:23human trafficking foundation and supported by the Commissioner, to
0:06:23 > 0:06:26guarantee survivors receive high-quality support. It is this
0:06:26 > 0:06:30lack of support that is a real challenge for the system. The
0:06:30 > 0:06:35Minister will also know that the UK has no data on what actually happens
0:06:35 > 0:06:42to victims beyond the 45 days, and no system to ensure survivors don't
0:06:42 > 0:06:46fall back actually into exploitation. We spent 10 million
0:06:46 > 0:06:50each year providing short-term support, only to end the support
0:06:50 > 0:06:53once the decision is made on whether the person is actually trafficked or
0:06:53 > 0:06:58not. The Modern Slavery Act, unlike other acts, does not explicitly
0:06:58 > 0:07:06place a duty on the state to provide support or state the victim's
0:07:06 > 0:07:10entitlements. Section 49 says these will be set up in guidance but can I
0:07:10 > 0:07:14ask the minister when that guidance is set to be published?Thank you
0:07:14 > 0:07:19for giving way. He may not know that this is a very important campaign
0:07:19 > 0:07:22for the co-operative party. Isn't it the case that people who have been
0:07:22 > 0:07:26entrapped into slavery do not stop being victims when it has been
0:07:26 > 0:07:30identified, it can take many years for them to recover and rebuild
0:07:30 > 0:07:36their lives?I thank my honourable friend. That is the crucial point
0:07:36 > 0:07:41which is often why Eddie end of the 45 day period, there is a period of
0:07:41 > 0:07:45further support they may be given, but the evidence shows the vast
0:07:45 > 0:07:51majority of people who enter that, fall back into exploitation or
0:07:51 > 0:07:55indeed read trafficked. Something needs to be done to deal with that.
0:07:55 > 0:08:00And again, just picking up on my honourable friend's point, the
0:08:00 > 0:08:05police say they have referred the same individual often into the
0:08:05 > 0:08:10national referral mechanism multiple times.Does the honourable member
0:08:10 > 0:08:16agree with me tracing perpetrators, all of our anti-slavery aims
0:08:16 > 0:08:20throughout the UK including Scotland, how will they continue to
0:08:20 > 0:08:24function effectively? Will they function effectively once we have
0:08:24 > 0:08:30left the EU, especially if it means we will be leaving intelligence
0:08:30 > 0:08:35sharing agencies like Europol?I think there will be challenges and I
0:08:35 > 0:08:40thank the honourable member for raising that point. We have to show
0:08:40 > 0:08:44that even if we do leave the European Union as the honourable
0:08:44 > 0:08:47member says, we have to look at how we replicate those systems with
0:08:47 > 0:08:53whatever deal is done. It is crucial to the victims, and I totally agree
0:08:53 > 0:08:58with that remark. Mr Deputy Speaker, each time survivors have left safe
0:08:58 > 0:09:06houses, they remain destitute again and targeted by traffickers. It is
0:09:06 > 0:09:10life destroying for the survivors. Surely, and I say to the Minister,
0:09:10 > 0:09:14we have to accept that the short-term system of support fails
0:09:14 > 0:09:17us all and we need to look both as victims, the police and government
0:09:17 > 0:09:22and all of us at what more we could do. If I could just finish this
0:09:22 > 0:09:26point. For example, a refugee granted asylum receives five years
0:09:26 > 0:09:34of leave to remain in the UK. Surely some in is recognised as enslaved
0:09:34 > 0:09:39and entitle a person to some sort of similar provision if not indeed five
0:09:39 > 0:09:42years.I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way and
0:09:42 > 0:09:46congratulate him on bringing this to the House. He is making an excellent
0:09:46 > 0:09:50speech on such an important issue. Would he agree with me that
0:09:50 > 0:09:54domestically the justice system in the UK is not set up to deal with
0:09:54 > 0:09:58these matters and the burden of proof is so high for a conviction,
0:09:58 > 0:10:02that very often someone goes free and the leave to remain is dependent
0:10:02 > 0:10:07on a conviction, when those two things should absolutely be
0:10:07 > 0:10:13separated?I will come onto that but that is absolutely crucial, that
0:10:13 > 0:10:21relationship between a victim and often are placed into and
0:10:21 > 0:10:24immigration system where they are regarded as trafficked but they have
0:10:24 > 0:10:27no status in the UK. I know that is something the Minister is looking at
0:10:27 > 0:10:32but it is a real problem with the way the system operates at the
0:10:32 > 0:10:37moment. The work and pensions committee made recommendations along
0:10:37 > 0:10:45these lines. We cannot continue to lose so many survivors, many of them
0:10:45 > 0:10:49back to the same traffickers. As Wilberforce himself said, you may
0:10:49 > 0:10:52choose to look the other way, but you can never again say you did not
0:10:52 > 0:10:57know. It is upon us as legislators to say what we actually going to do
0:10:57 > 0:11:02about this? Survivors need time and assistance...I thank my right
0:11:02 > 0:11:07honourable friend for giving way, he has been generous with his time. One
0:11:07 > 0:11:10of the critical issues here is a inspection and enforcement within
0:11:10 > 0:11:16the Labour market. Would he agree with me that resource in that is a
0:11:16 > 0:11:21crucial point? A recent report by focus on Labour exploitation,
0:11:21 > 0:11:26charity of which I am a trustee, detailed how far we are lagging
0:11:26 > 0:11:31behind other countries and they recommended levels of resource Inc.
0:11:31 > 0:11:36Is he concerned that we only have 4000 inspectors per 10,000 workers
0:11:36 > 0:11:44when Poland and Norway have twice as many and Ireland spends twice as
0:11:44 > 0:11:49much and does he think the issue needs to be addressed by the
0:11:49 > 0:11:54Minister?I think my honourable friend put the question very well.
0:11:54 > 0:11:59There is a need to look at the whole area of labour enforcement. I know
0:11:59 > 0:12:01the cooperation between the gang masters licensing and the Home
0:12:01 > 0:12:06Office, it is that sharing of data and information is important. If I
0:12:06 > 0:12:12can make one other point, it is also this case of awareness. Just last
0:12:12 > 0:12:19week in my own authority, Gedling Borough Council, there was a farm
0:12:19 > 0:12:23and they found a victim of labour exploitation working on their farm.
0:12:23 > 0:12:29It was found either person being aware, a chance remark that caused
0:12:29 > 0:12:33them to question what was happening. I think part of it was enforcement
0:12:33 > 0:12:36but it is also about raising awareness said people may question
0:12:36 > 0:12:40what is happening in terms of trying to report back to the appropriate
0:12:40 > 0:12:46authorities. I will give way. Can I just say before I do give way, the
0:12:46 > 0:12:51Speaker, I have been in this House a long time and you give way a lot,
0:12:51 > 0:12:58but you cannot have it both ways. I'm sure that you want to finish
0:12:58 > 0:13:01within 15 minutes to give everybody from when you started, because the
0:13:01 > 0:13:05benefit of it is, I will be putting a time limit of seven minutes on. I
0:13:05 > 0:13:12don't want to have to reduce that to six. Are you sure you want to?If I
0:13:12 > 0:13:16may, thank you for giving way. As someone who has prosecuted offences
0:13:16 > 0:13:21of servitude in the past, I am grateful to him for the passion he
0:13:21 > 0:13:26is showing for this horrible offence. Would he join me in Penn
0:13:26 > 0:13:29tribute to the Salvation Army who held an event to get a message out
0:13:29 > 0:13:37that everyone needs to be on their guard?Can I just say on the serious
0:13:37 > 0:13:42point that the honourable member has raised, of course I pay tribute to
0:13:42 > 0:13:46people like that in Cheltenham, but also to all the honourable members
0:13:46 > 0:13:52of this House so I know to draw to the authority of their areas to
0:13:52 > 0:13:58combat this crime. Mr Deputy Speaker, survivors need time and
0:13:58 > 0:14:03assistance to access justice, but also accessing compensation,
0:14:03 > 0:14:07something tried to recognise as critical by the Modern Slavery Act.
0:14:07 > 0:14:13Surely we don't want to make crime pay? Between 2004 and 2014, 211
0:14:13 > 0:14:16persons were convicted of human trafficking and slavery. But
0:14:16 > 0:14:21according to the figures I have got, only eight compensation orders were
0:14:21 > 0:14:27made for these crimes, amounting in total to £70,000. It does seem to me
0:14:27 > 0:14:32that we do need to look at this whole question of compensation for
0:14:32 > 0:14:37victims. And where the courts do order traffickers to pay, many do
0:14:37 > 0:14:41not pay up, having moved their assets abroad, again, something we
0:14:41 > 0:14:45need to look at and I would be grateful if the Minister in her
0:14:45 > 0:14:53response does. Gene Simmons, a tireless campaigner who seized an
0:14:53 > 0:14:57award from the human trafficking foundation provides a powerful
0:14:57 > 0:15:03example of how powerful it is for survivors to access support. Her son
0:15:03 > 0:15:07Daryl was enslaved by a traveller family. He worked day and night for
0:15:07 > 0:15:11over 13 years for no pay. The police refused to recognise that he was at
0:15:11 > 0:15:17risk some in the end he was found and recognised by his own family.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21Four years after being rescued, Daryl has still not had a penny of
0:15:21 > 0:15:26compensation and nor has he received the sort of support that we might
0:15:26 > 0:15:32expect. It is also the case that while the act focuses on criminal
0:15:32 > 0:15:34justice without prioritising support, I would suggest to the
0:15:34 > 0:15:38minister we will not get the level of prosecutions, let alone the level
0:15:38 > 0:15:42of convictions that we would want. Prosecution and conviction rates are
0:15:42 > 0:15:49broadly rising but still remain far too low. According to the CPS, 295
0:15:49 > 0:15:55human trafficking prosecutions were completed in 2016/ 17. However, the
0:15:55 > 0:16:04number of convictions actually fell from 192 in 15/16 to 181 in 2016/
0:16:04 > 0:16:1017. The police often say why they are failing to catch victims, they
0:16:10 > 0:16:17are unable to get access to art accommodation or benefits and many
0:16:17 > 0:16:21will go missing before they get into the national referral mechanism. But
0:16:21 > 0:16:26there are many challenges also facing the police. The HMRC report
0:16:26 > 0:16:32this week said however, many victims of modern slavery received a wholly
0:16:32 > 0:16:36inadequate service from the police. And the report described at host of
0:16:36 > 0:16:44concerns.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48An independent inspector made a number of really serious criticisms
0:16:48 > 0:16:52about the way in which the police dealt with this issue, lack of focus
0:16:52 > 0:16:58on victims, tendency to refer those without equal status to an
0:16:58 > 0:17:04immigration services, appoint our colleague was speaking, concerns
0:17:04 > 0:17:08about the quality of investigations, investigations being closed
0:17:08 > 0:17:13prematurely. This is what HMIC said, the result was that we are leaving
0:17:13 > 0:17:18victims of protected while offenders are not brought to justice. To
0:17:18 > 0:17:22conclude with a couple of further remarks, as I think you are
0:17:22 > 0:17:27encouraging me to do, I have not touched on the issue of children.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31Yet we have seen with respect to children large numbers of children,
0:17:31 > 0:17:39many brought into care of the state as a result of trafficking or
0:17:39 > 0:17:42suspected of being trafficked. What happens to those children as we saw
0:17:42 > 0:17:50in a recent report is many abscond, leave or are taken away. It cannot
0:17:50 > 0:17:57be acceptable that in our country in 2017, we cannot protect our children
0:17:57 > 0:18:03that are brought into the care of the state. It cannot be right. So we
0:18:03 > 0:18:09need to understand and think what more can be done. I think it is
0:18:09 > 0:18:16important that we look at the act, review it, consider the section is
0:18:16 > 0:18:20still to be implemented, we consider what more needs to be done. I will
0:18:20 > 0:18:29finish with this. In 2006, I was the minister in the Home Office and I
0:18:29 > 0:18:36had responsibility for this area of work. In 2017, and for four years
0:18:36 > 0:18:40between 2006 and 2017, I had much of the responsibility for dealing with
0:18:40 > 0:18:44this, so when I challenged the Government, it is a challenge to all
0:18:44 > 0:18:50of us, to what I did, to everyone of us, to every local authority, every
0:18:50 > 0:18:54police force, everyone amongst us, that we have to challenge ourselves
0:18:54 > 0:18:58to do better, it is not acceptable that modern slavery still exists, it
0:18:58 > 0:19:07is a blight on the conscience of this nation and whilst we have done
0:19:07 > 0:19:10a lot, there is so much more to do. Those people who are enslaved
0:19:10 > 0:19:13deserve our help and support. Can I just say, what an important debate
0:19:13 > 0:19:21it is? The question is, the House has considered the implementation of
0:19:21 > 0:19:28the modern slavery act 2015. The seven minute limit from now on.I
0:19:28 > 0:19:32declare an interest in this debate as a trustee of the Human
0:19:32 > 0:19:39Trafficking Foundation. I first of all want to pay tribute to a group
0:19:39 > 0:19:42of mainly former parliamentarians and a former judge who is still in
0:19:42 > 0:19:49the other place. Anthony Steen, MBE, Baroness Butler-Sloss, the right
0:19:49 > 0:19:54honourable Clare Short, The right honourable Sir John Randall, and the
0:19:54 > 0:19:57right honourable Fiona McTaggart. Not forgetting of course the right
0:19:57 > 0:20:03honourable member current chair of the APPG jeep on human trafficking
0:20:03 > 0:20:09and modern slavery. Without their passion, foresight and commitment,
0:20:09 > 0:20:15we would not be in the position we are today in the cause of defeating
0:20:15 > 0:20:19human trafficking. I also want to thank the Salvation Army and its
0:20:19 > 0:20:23partners for the incredible work they do at the coal face, looking
0:20:23 > 0:20:28after and supporting victims of this terrible crime. For me, human
0:20:28 > 0:20:35trafficking is a scourge, it does not discriminate, it permeates
0:20:35 > 0:20:42across age, race, class and gender. It also crushes self-confidence and
0:20:42 > 0:20:46self-esteem which are the prerequisites for aspiration,
0:20:46 > 0:20:51motivation and success. This exploitation of vulnerable men,
0:20:51 > 0:20:57women and children by predatory criminal groups is something that no
0:20:57 > 0:21:02civilised society should tolerate. It creates victims who are often
0:21:02 > 0:21:07some of the most vulnerable members of society, separated from their
0:21:07 > 0:21:14families and friends with no access to financial help or support. As I
0:21:14 > 0:21:18speak today, I am reminded of a young man I met around three years
0:21:18 > 0:21:24ago when I was the victim 's Minister. He dispelled many of the
0:21:24 > 0:21:28myths surrounding human trafficking, namely he was a man, he was British,
0:21:28 > 0:21:33and he was trafficked for forced labour. He bravely shared with me
0:21:33 > 0:21:41his story of absolute misery. And how he was dehumanised and degraded.
0:21:41 > 0:21:47The meeting drove home to me just how important it is for government,
0:21:47 > 0:21:51local authorities and all of our partners to work more effectively
0:21:51 > 0:21:56together. Thanks to the efforts of many, including our Prime Minister,
0:21:56 > 0:22:01some good progress has been made in tackling in combating trafficking.
0:22:01 > 0:22:06Indeed the modern slavery act 2015 has been a landmark for success. We
0:22:06 > 0:22:11now have a wide range of laws to protect victims and a wide range of
0:22:11 > 0:22:16organisations to support victims but there is still much more that needs
0:22:16 > 0:22:23to be done. There needs to be far more focus on prevention by tackling
0:22:23 > 0:22:27the issue at source and working smarter at our borders. We must
0:22:27 > 0:22:33improve prosecution and conviction rates, improve data collection, and
0:22:33 > 0:22:39deal with ongoing scepticism and poor response, still greeting
0:22:39 > 0:22:45victims when they try to report abuse. This can certainly come from
0:22:45 > 0:22:49people and organisations that ought to know better, such as the police.
0:22:49 > 0:22:53I know this government's ambition is to eradicate all forms of human
0:22:53 > 0:22:58trafficking. I know too many millions of pounds have been spent
0:22:58 > 0:23:04in supporting victims. But I think our Home Secretary summed up the
0:23:04 > 0:23:07position very well and candidly when she wrote the following in April of
0:23:07 > 0:23:12this year. She said, we must be better at getting immediate support
0:23:12 > 0:23:18to victims when they are at their most vulnerable. Otherwise they just
0:23:18 > 0:23:25slip through the net. To be abused all over again. Then we lose any
0:23:25 > 0:23:28opportunity to gain information on the criminals who exploited them in
0:23:28 > 0:23:35the first place. We also want to make sure that victims are able to
0:23:35 > 0:23:39rebuild their lives. Our aspiration to help these people is in the right
0:23:39 > 0:23:48place, but at present, the provision of support may yet not be. Clearly
0:23:48 > 0:23:52the Home Secretary recognises that more needs to be done. And I will
0:23:52 > 0:23:57therefore focus my suggestions today on what can be done, on a group of
0:23:57 > 0:24:02people who the authorities accept as victims of human trafficking, namely
0:24:02 > 0:24:07those who receive a positive and conclusive grounds decision. First
0:24:07 > 0:24:11of all, the conclusive grounds decision must carry with it more
0:24:11 > 0:24:16status, weight and meaning. In my view, victims of trafficking victim
0:24:16 > 0:24:21to the same vulnerable group as refugees and victims of torture. It
0:24:21 > 0:24:25therefore seems right that conclusive grounds should carry with
0:24:25 > 0:24:30them the same 12 months residency permit, not only would this provide
0:24:30 > 0:24:35the stability and assurances that victims need to begin to recover,
0:24:35 > 0:24:40but it would also create a better environment for victims to assist
0:24:40 > 0:24:45law enforcement agencies in finding and prosecuting perpetrators.
0:24:45 > 0:24:50Second, the paperwork received by victims with positive conclusive
0:24:50 > 0:24:54grounds must be recognisable and transferable, the current form, to
0:24:54 > 0:24:59be frank, is flimsy, short and unhelpful. This should be recognised
0:24:59 > 0:25:02by other government departments and agencies and allow access to
0:25:02 > 0:25:07appropriate services. Third, victims need advice from those who
0:25:07 > 0:25:13understand the system in relation to accommodation, immigration and
0:25:13 > 0:25:18employment support. The system which personally, as a lawyer, some 23
0:25:18 > 0:25:22years, now an MP, I often struggle to deal with. Victims with
0:25:22 > 0:25:25conclusive grounds should have access to a case worker to help them
0:25:25 > 0:25:30comply with the procedures and access services. Fourth, victims
0:25:30 > 0:25:35need a roof over their heads. I ask the Minister to consider introducing
0:25:35 > 0:25:39some greater flexibility in the moving on the victim from a safe
0:25:39 > 0:25:45house. The safe house of course should not be permanent long-term
0:25:45 > 0:25:48accommodation but the current cliff edge approach of losing the safe
0:25:48 > 0:25:52house accommodation two weeks after the conclusive grounds decision is
0:25:52 > 0:25:59failing and not satisfactory. Mr Deputy Speaker, Madam Deputy
0:25:59 > 0:26:03Speaker, forgive me, human trafficking is a scourge, it is
0:26:03 > 0:26:07abhorrent and inexcusable and every time I hear about an incident or
0:26:07 > 0:26:11meet a victim, I think, what kind of world are we living in and what can
0:26:11 > 0:26:16we do to make things better? Every victim and witness of a crime needs
0:26:16 > 0:26:21to know they will be offered all their help support they need and
0:26:21 > 0:26:25deserve to move on in their lives and bring perpetrators to justice.
0:26:25 > 0:26:33We can do better. We must do better. Thank you.The anti-slavery
0:26:33 > 0:26:37commissioner stressed this week using children to transport and sell
0:26:37 > 0:26:44Class A drugs is a form of modern-day slavery. He said the
0:26:44 > 0:26:49police and other agencies were not seeing it for what it is, the use of
0:26:49 > 0:26:51children and young people as commodities by criminal gangs. He
0:26:51 > 0:26:57said that more and more lines were being discovered each day but there
0:26:57 > 0:27:02was often a lack of sympathy for the victims. He was responding to the
0:27:02 > 0:27:09HMIC report. The criminal exploitation of children to sell
0:27:09 > 0:27:14drugs is the next big grooming scandal, it has many similarities to
0:27:14 > 0:27:22grooming in the child sexual exploitation cases in places like
0:27:22 > 0:27:26Rochdale. The National Crime Agency say 82% of police forces have
0:27:26 > 0:27:31reported activity in their area. I have been told by a well-informed
0:27:31 > 0:27:34police source there could be up to 1000 county lines operating
0:27:34 > 0:27:39throughout the country from major cities where there are
0:27:39 > 0:27:41well-established criminal gangs including London, Liverpool and
0:27:41 > 0:27:44Manchester. And although the exploitation of children by
0:27:44 > 0:27:48organised crime to carry and sell drugs is not new, there is a huge
0:27:48 > 0:27:52and growing problem of children being groomed to supply Class A
0:27:52 > 0:27:56drugs, crack cocaine and heroin, around the country. This usually
0:27:56 > 0:28:01involves going from an urban area expanding their operations by
0:28:01 > 0:28:05crossing one or more police force boundaries to rural areas, setting
0:28:05 > 0:28:10up a secure base and using one is to conduct day-to-day dealing. A county
0:28:10 > 0:28:15lines enterprise must always involves the exploitation of
0:28:15 > 0:28:21vulnerable children and adults. As more are set up, more children are
0:28:21 > 0:28:25being targeted and groomed to carry on supply drugs. For the criminal
0:28:25 > 0:28:29gangs, it is a very successful business. New markets bring more
0:28:29 > 0:28:33income and using children and young people reduces the gang's risk of
0:28:33 > 0:28:37detection. For the children and young people, it often ends in drug
0:28:37 > 0:28:43and alcohol addiction, violence, is other sexual explication. They
0:28:43 > 0:28:46become criminals and the groomers and exploiters of other children.
0:28:46 > 0:28:50The extent of it is very difficult to map as data is collected by
0:28:50 > 0:28:55various agencies and there was little sharing of that data. This
0:28:55 > 0:28:59week I was invited by Greater Manchester Police to help launch an
0:28:59 > 0:29:02excellent new campaign called Tractor will raise awareness of how
0:29:02 > 0:29:12young people can get drawn into county lines. -- trapped. The police
0:29:12 > 0:29:17found a young boy in Blackpool Avenue this week who they said was
0:29:17 > 0:29:21relieved to be locked up, his face was green, as he had been so badly
0:29:21 > 0:29:33beaten -- in Blackpool only this week. Key to the approach is working
0:29:33 > 0:29:37in schools, youth centres, housing and drug services, to prevent young
0:29:37 > 0:29:40people getting embedded or furthering indebted into criminal
0:29:40 > 0:29:48gangs, to provide them with safe people to talk to. Some children are
0:29:48 > 0:29:52vulnerable because of chaotic family relationships, some are looked after
0:29:52 > 0:29:56children, some may have older siblings caught up in drugs, others
0:29:56 > 0:30:00might have parents who are complicit in the use of their child by
0:30:00 > 0:30:06gangster helped feed their own drug habit. Methods include offers of
0:30:06 > 0:30:09cash and goods, coercion, young people having to work back to pay
0:30:09 > 0:30:14back a drug debt owed to a gang member. I chair the all-party
0:30:14 > 0:30:18Parliamentary group on runaway and missing children. And adults. Which
0:30:18 > 0:30:22is supported by the Children's Society and missing people. We held
0:30:22 > 0:30:28a Round Table in March on county lines taking evidence from victims,
0:30:28 > 0:30:32parents, experts and agencies. Can I thank the honourable member for her
0:30:32 > 0:30:36attendance at the round table? The report we produced after the Round
0:30:36 > 0:30:41Table made clear that children from all backgrounds are at risk of being
0:30:41 > 0:30:44drawn into county lines, the parents who gave evidence to the Round Table
0:30:44 > 0:30:49did not meet the profile of a chaotic family, their sons had
0:30:49 > 0:30:52become involved through friendships with other young people who had
0:30:52 > 0:30:56associations with gangs. Pressure on young people is huge and at a time
0:30:56 > 0:31:00of transition from childhood to adolescents, they are particularly
0:31:00 > 0:31:03vulnerable to the pressure from peers. Young people can get drawn
0:31:03 > 0:31:07into what initially looks like a good offer in terms of cash and
0:31:07 > 0:31:11lifestyle but end up being trapped and coerced by very terrifying
0:31:11 > 0:31:17people. Looked after children are particular target for grooming by
0:31:17 > 0:31:30criminal gangs, those placed miles away from home areas
0:31:33 > 0:31:35can be especially vulnerable, there are additional difficulties in
0:31:35 > 0:31:37keeping children safe when they are placed far away. It is hard for a
0:31:37 > 0:31:40social worker to give support from hundreds of miles away. It is
0:31:40 > 0:31:42concerning there has been a 78% increase nationally in children
0:31:42 > 0:31:44placed in children's poems out of borough from March, 2012. Parents
0:31:44 > 0:31:50whose children were exploited its breast despair at the Round Table --
0:31:50 > 0:31:54expressed despair. My concern is the response of the safeguarding system
0:31:54 > 0:31:58is increasing the vulnerability of young people. The parent who is not
0:31:58 > 0:32:03supported will leave the child more vulnerable. The placing of a child
0:32:03 > 0:32:08in a children's home targeted by criminal gangs increases their
0:32:08 > 0:32:13vulnerability. Failing to appropriately assess risk in missing
0:32:13 > 0:32:18is percent will increase vulnerability.
0:32:18 > 0:32:23There needs to be a more joined up response from the National Crime
0:32:23 > 0:32:29Agency and police at a local level. These crimes an aching millions from
0:32:29 > 0:32:32the degradation of children, responsible for endless beatings,
0:32:32 > 0:32:36stabbing and murder. We also need to disrupt the grooming of vulnerable
0:32:36 > 0:32:41children at an early age, at the same time as prosecuting gang
0:32:41 > 0:32:45members. Preventing children getting into gangs in turn prevents more
0:32:45 > 0:32:48victims. We need to look at the better use of child abduction
0:32:48 > 0:32:52warning notices and the child referral mechanism needs to be
0:32:52 > 0:32:56better understood as it could be used to identify children as victims
0:32:56 > 0:33:03of exploit Asian and this in turn makes it easier to prosecute their
0:33:03 > 0:33:08exploiters under trafficking laws. They are the ones hiding behind the
0:33:08 > 0:33:14children and they also prevent prosecution. The exploitation of
0:33:14 > 0:33:19criminal gangs is increasing and it is shocking the message that
0:33:19 > 0:33:22organised crime is getting is provided they use children and young
0:33:22 > 0:33:25people, we are powerless to do anything about it, so we need to
0:33:25 > 0:33:31find better ways of working together, and using better resources
0:33:31 > 0:33:34and a better response to safeguarding children. Children
0:33:34 > 0:33:41should be our priority. Last week the Church of England
0:33:41 > 0:33:44introduced an initiative which is aimed at tackling modern day
0:33:44 > 0:33:51slavery. It draws on excellent work pioneered by the Bishop of Derby. It
0:33:51 > 0:33:56is used to detect incidences of modern day slavery in their midst
0:33:56 > 0:33:59and provide appropriate support for victims. There are many tools to
0:33:59 > 0:34:04help end slavery within the local community, and the church which is
0:34:04 > 0:34:07present in all communities has an inherent responsibility to leave
0:34:07 > 0:34:12these efforts. The Archbishop of Canterbury said William Wilberforce
0:34:12 > 0:34:16convinced his generation that slavery was a sin. That is much
0:34:16 > 0:34:23range but there is ignorance around it. The charity takes its name from
0:34:23 > 0:34:28a group of sisters who were founded to help marginalised women but the
0:34:28 > 0:34:33legacy today will be to address modern day slavery. The campaign
0:34:33 > 0:34:38slogan is: we see you. The aim is to empower people like us
0:34:38 > 0:34:41to spot the signs of modern forms of slavery happening all around us in
0:34:41 > 0:34:47our towns, cities and villages. They could be right in the midst of
0:34:47 > 0:34:51communities where we live. We do not always know the signs and we do not
0:34:51 > 0:34:56know what are the right questions to ask. Modern slavery is a hidden
0:34:56 > 0:35:00crime so we have to take seriously the injunction to know who our
0:35:00 > 0:35:03neighbour really is. Our neighbour could be a homeless man forced into
0:35:03 > 0:35:08work. It could be a girl kept into domestic servitude. Victims may be
0:35:08 > 0:35:22nearly invisible to us so we have to develop sharper eyes in order to
0:35:24 > 0:35:26detect their needs, hence, we see you, the campaign. The initiative is
0:35:26 > 0:35:28designed to help dieses help develop strategies to protect their
0:35:28 > 0:35:30communities by offering monitoring. Crucially, it gives people contacts
0:35:30 > 0:35:33to reach out to if they spot signs of slavery and I worried that people
0:35:33 > 0:35:40are trapped in it. Nationally, it developed a network of practitioners
0:35:40 > 0:35:45who can provide evidence -based data to resource the church's national
0:35:45 > 0:35:49engagement with statutory and non-statutory bodies. The project
0:35:49 > 0:35:53has taken best practice from Derby and now there are ten other
0:35:53 > 0:35:58participating dioceses, Bath and Wells, Chester, Durham, Liverpool,
0:35:58 > 0:36:05Portsmouth, Southwark and Nottingham. A further 14 dioceses
0:36:05 > 0:36:10are due to sign up later this year and it is hoped the church's 42
0:36:10 > 0:36:15dieses and 12,000 parishes will all become mobilised in the battle to
0:36:15 > 0:36:19eradicate modern day slavery. Of course, the landscape image is so
0:36:19 > 0:36:22different so the approach and training will need to be
0:36:22 > 0:36:27contextualised, but there is no doubt this approach can make a
0:36:27 > 0:36:30difference. If we take in the vanguard the Bishop of Derby and his
0:36:30 > 0:36:33diocese which was right in the forefront of this, and Bishop
0:36:33 > 0:36:38Alistair was on the modern day slavery Bill committee, along with
0:36:38 > 0:36:43other members present, we can see the key to this is developing a
0:36:43 > 0:36:47strong working relationship with key agencies, the police, the council
0:36:47 > 0:36:52and other agencies who can reach out and provide assistance to victims.
0:36:52 > 0:36:57Within the church, the mothers union has taken on a need for supplies for
0:36:57 > 0:37:01victims, by fund-raising and producing emergency packs for them.
0:37:01 > 0:37:04There are many examples from this initiative of each diocese taking
0:37:04 > 0:37:13the opportunity to help and I encourage every member present to
0:37:13 > 0:37:20read the account. This is not to diminish the good work carried
0:37:20 > 0:37:25across the country by secular NGOs and our community and I would like
0:37:25 > 0:37:30to highlight the work of Soroptimist International of Great Britain and
0:37:30 > 0:37:37Ireland. It has undertaken surveys online and face-to-face to
0:37:37 > 0:37:40understand how much the public actually knows and what their
0:37:40 > 0:37:45perceptions are of slavery and human trafficking. This survey is to help
0:37:45 > 0:37:51the UK modern slavery training delivery group to assess the level
0:37:51 > 0:37:55of public knowledge, in order to help combat it. As of last week, we
0:37:55 > 0:38:04know over 3700 online surveys had been completed and over 400 paper
0:38:04 > 0:38:08surveys have been returned. When we made a bid before the Backbench
0:38:08 > 0:38:14Business Committee last week, one of the issues I wanted to join in
0:38:14 > 0:38:20raising was the issue of child trafficking. I was shocked to read a
0:38:20 > 0:38:23report in The Times which Baroness Butler-Sloss said was very
0:38:23 > 0:38:29disturbing, about scores of miners who fall back into the hands of
0:38:29 > 0:38:44traffickers. Nine the vicar -- many children go missing every year. In
0:38:44 > 0:38:50that report in the Times, Kevin Hyland, the anti-slavery
0:38:50 > 0:38:54commissioner has expressed his concern that the frequency and speed
0:38:54 > 0:39:04of which the mini is miners go missing. -- Vietnamese miners. I do
0:39:04 > 0:39:08particularly want to join with the honourable member for Gedling and
0:39:08 > 0:39:11others who have spoken to really impress upon the Government to go
0:39:11 > 0:39:18out of its way to tackle this terrible abuse of the most
0:39:18 > 0:39:25vulnerable of the vulnerable in our society. I beg to move.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28Kerry McCarthy.Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure to see you
0:39:28 > 0:39:33in the chair. I welcome the Modern Slavery Act and imparticular section
0:39:33 > 0:39:3754 on supply chains which was something we had to fight quite hard
0:39:37 > 0:39:43for. Despite the legislation as the National Crime Agency said earlier
0:39:43 > 0:39:47this year, modern slavery is steadily increasing. There are many
0:39:47 > 0:39:51industries in which modern slavery goes undetected, everyday situations
0:39:51 > 0:39:55right and our nose. 20 cases of modern slavery have been
0:39:55 > 0:39:59investigated in Bristol over the last, including Eastern European
0:39:59 > 0:40:03workers who were exploited by a Bristol car wash and forced to work
0:40:03 > 0:40:07long hours for low pay. One had worked 18 months for no pay at all
0:40:07 > 0:40:11and it is believed five others are in the same situation. In July this
0:40:11 > 0:40:18year, police arrested people following a raid on a nail bar in
0:40:18 > 0:40:24Southmead in Bristol, my honourable friend's constituency. Unseen, a
0:40:24 > 0:40:28Bristol-based charity who works to eradicate modern day slavery and
0:40:28 > 0:40:33runs the modern day slavery helpline is currently running a net nail it
0:40:33 > 0:40:39campaign which aims to stop slavery in nail bars. I am happy to support
0:40:39 > 0:40:44that campaign, hence my bright pink nails today. And I think Avon and
0:40:44 > 0:40:49Somerset police who support it and ended up on the front page of the
0:40:49 > 0:40:52Sun newspaper and were denounced by the honourable member for Monmouth,
0:40:52 > 0:40:57I believe they were right to do that as well. Over the past 12 months in
0:40:57 > 0:41:02the wider Avon and Somerset area, police adults with 60 investigations
0:41:02 > 0:41:06and have seen a significant increase in modern slavery related
0:41:06 > 0:41:09intelligence and also calls to the helpline went up following that
0:41:09 > 0:41:14awareness campaign. But the police do need to be properly resourced and
0:41:14 > 0:41:20as my local police in China Leave -- Police and Crime Commissioner said
0:41:20 > 0:41:24they do not have the resources to carry out basic policing functions
0:41:24 > 0:41:30let alone mount investigations. Both the gang masters licensing authority
0:41:30 > 0:41:34and HMIC have received cuts to deal with their capacity in slavery
0:41:34 > 0:41:44offences. A firm could inspect a visit only once every 250 years.
0:41:44 > 0:41:50Many of the call about nail bars fight the physical or psychological
0:41:50 > 0:41:54state of workers, inappropriate sleeping accommodation, poor working
0:41:54 > 0:42:00conditions, lack of spoken English, cheap prices, cash only transactions
0:42:00 > 0:42:05and concerns of abuse and violence. They need to -- they seem to be
0:42:05 > 0:42:09intimidated by their bosses. Customers need to be aware of these
0:42:09 > 0:42:14issues. The Southmead raid was prompted by a tip-off from a member
0:42:14 > 0:42:20of the public who raised concerns about a woman's welfare. Without
0:42:20 > 0:42:22that into ventilation -- intervention it could have taken
0:42:22 > 0:42:27longer to take the woman to a place of safety. People do need to know
0:42:27 > 0:42:32the signs of modern slavery in their community. Victims may appear
0:42:32 > 0:42:37withdrawn. They may have few possessions. They may have few
0:42:37 > 0:42:40clothes, all live and work at the same address, may be dropped off and
0:42:40 > 0:42:45collected for work on a regular basis, either very early or very
0:42:45 > 0:42:50late at night. People do need to be vigilant, as I have said. Finally, I
0:42:50 > 0:42:57want to say a bit about slavery in the food processing, fishing and
0:42:57 > 0:43:01agricultural sectors which remain a huge issue. Unite the union's
0:43:01 > 0:43:04excellent from plough to plate report, said employers are some of
0:43:04 > 0:43:10the worst exploiters of workers, with countless instances of abuse,
0:43:10 > 0:43:15meeting the legal definitions of slavery and enforced labour. Lusty
0:43:15 > 0:43:19group of Lithuanian chicken farmers won their case against two Kent
0:43:19 > 0:43:23-based gang masters who had forced them to work under threat of
0:43:23 > 0:43:29violence and kept them in squalid living conditions. In another 2016
0:43:29 > 0:43:34case, two Lithuanian men had been trafficked and worked in a meat
0:43:34 > 0:43:38processing plant. They had their pay withheld and were subjected to
0:43:38 > 0:43:43violence but the traffickers were only sentenced to 3.5 years in jail.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46The environment of Justice foundation has done as Bob will work
0:43:46 > 0:43:52over the last five years, exposing modern slavery in the Thailand
0:43:52 > 0:43:59seafood sector, under covering, there have been casing people kept
0:43:59 > 0:44:05at the four years, being moved from ship to ship and never reaching
0:44:05 > 0:44:13shore to reach sanctuary. Despite reforms, forced labour continues to
0:44:13 > 0:44:17be widespread, including the shocking statistic that 59% of Thai
0:44:17 > 0:44:22fishing workers had witnessed the murder of a fellow worker. Many more
0:44:22 > 0:44:32had had wages and sleep been withheld from them. Millions of
0:44:32 > 0:44:37pounds worth of seafood products imported from Thailand every year.
0:44:37 > 0:44:44Another example from just this week, is two of Italy's biggest tomato
0:44:44 > 0:44:51suppliers for UK supermarkets have been indicated in labour abuses with
0:44:51 > 0:44:55workers being required to work 12 hours a day, seven days a week with
0:44:55 > 0:45:00minimal pay and no access to medical care. Those are a few examples of
0:45:00 > 0:45:10something which is incredibly widespread. In 2015 the Economist
0:45:10 > 0:45:12described the transparency of slavery requirement of a light
0:45:12 > 0:45:21touch. I would say the Government needs to go further. A full
0:45:21 > 0:45:30complement -- statement should be legally binding. Specifically in
0:45:30 > 0:45:36relation to the seafood sector and the fishing industry, the
0:45:36 > 0:45:40environmental Justice foundation is calling for transnational approaches
0:45:40 > 0:45:46for all countries to fully ratify and implement the convection an work
0:45:46 > 0:45:51and fishing, for all countries to amend legislation to prosecute
0:45:51 > 0:45:54national citizens engaged in human trafficking, on vessels registered
0:45:54 > 0:46:02to another country, and for retailers and to establish
0:46:02 > 0:46:05effectively -- effective transparency, including committing
0:46:05 > 0:46:07to independent third-party unannounced auditing of supply
0:46:07 > 0:46:11chains. Madam Deputy Speaker, cheap products and services often come at
0:46:11 > 0:46:16an unseen cost and we must ask ourselves, just how come prices are
0:46:16 > 0:46:22so low. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Such services
0:46:22 > 0:46:27should never be used. We all need to play a role in suffocating slavery
0:46:27 > 0:46:33at source by exercising vigilance.
0:46:33 > 0:46:36It is a pleasure to follow the honourable member, she made some
0:46:36 > 0:46:41excellent points. I want to pay tribute to my right honourable
0:46:41 > 0:46:45friend, the Prime Minister, for her dedication when Home Secretary to
0:46:45 > 0:46:49start to read our nation of this evil practice of modern slavery and
0:46:49 > 0:46:57leading the way globally -- read our nation. The Modern Slavery Act 2015
0:46:57 > 0:47:03is a world leading legislation and it is of paramount importance that
0:47:03 > 0:47:09other countries follow our lead. The member has already expressed the
0:47:09 > 0:47:14important role the Bishop of Derby played in driving the legislation to
0:47:14 > 0:47:20where we are today. With my constituency being on the doorstep
0:47:20 > 0:47:24of Derby, listening to the bishops speak on the subject really inspired
0:47:24 > 0:47:28me to take more than just a passing interest in this, it is probably
0:47:28 > 0:47:33because of the Bishop I am here today. The Bishop has been at the
0:47:33 > 0:47:36forefront of the fight against modern slavery with the
0:47:36 > 0:47:39establishment of the Derby and publisher modern slavery
0:47:39 > 0:47:46partnership, -- the Derby and Derbyshire modern slavery
0:47:46 > 0:47:51partnership. This collaboration of organisations across different
0:47:51 > 0:47:56sectors is drawn from Derby city and Derby County. Derbyshire as a whole.
0:47:56 > 0:48:01This aims to raise awareness in the understanding of what trafficking
0:48:01 > 0:48:05is, how traffickers operate and an understanding of the experiences of
0:48:05 > 0:48:11victims. It is seen as a model of best practice across the country. In
0:48:11 > 0:48:15no way -- nowhere is immune from the threat of modern slavery, it does
0:48:15 > 0:48:19not just happen in big cities. It is as likely to happen in the local car
0:48:19 > 0:48:26wash, nail bar, in our towns, as well as in the major cities we
0:48:26 > 0:48:31automatically think of. To give this important issue some context,
0:48:31 > 0:48:37research carried out by the Home Office in 2014 estimated that in
0:48:37 > 0:48:422013 the number of potential victims of modern slavery in the UK was
0:48:42 > 0:48:47between 10,000 up to 13,000. Personally, I believe this is an
0:48:47 > 0:48:50underestimate of the problem as more and more people become aware of this
0:48:50 > 0:48:56horrendous practice. Moore does need to be done to educate employers and
0:48:56 > 0:49:01the staff as to how to identify people who may be modern slaves. A
0:49:01 > 0:49:06recent case in Derbyshire highlighted this. I know more
0:49:06 > 0:49:10workers being done to educate both employers and employees of what to
0:49:10 > 0:49:17look for, how identify these people. However, this number not only
0:49:17 > 0:49:22represents victims trafficked into the UK but also British adults and
0:49:22 > 0:49:26children too. The National Crime Agency estimates that in 2013 the UK
0:49:26 > 0:49:30was the third most common country of origin of identified victims. It is
0:49:30 > 0:49:36happening on our doorsteps. But in today's debate, I want to focus on
0:49:36 > 0:49:40the supply chain aspect of the legislation, the transparency in the
0:49:40 > 0:49:48supply chains cause. This aspect of the legislation applies to
0:49:48 > 0:49:50commercial organisations which operate in the UK and have an annual
0:49:50 > 0:49:57turnover of £36 million. Such businesses have to produce a slavery
0:49:57 > 0:50:00and human trafficking statement each year. The statement which is placed
0:50:00 > 0:50:07on the company's website should set out the steps taken to address and
0:50:07 > 0:50:10prevent modern slavery in their operations and supply chains. As my
0:50:10 > 0:50:14interest in the subject has developed, I have read numerous
0:50:14 > 0:50:19statements from some of the largest retailers and other businesses and I
0:50:19 > 0:50:27am saddened when I read the statements and see that they are
0:50:27 > 0:50:30only paying lip service to the legislation and do not appreciate
0:50:30 > 0:50:35the importance of getting the supply chain slavery free. In the last
0:50:35 > 0:50:39Parliament, I tried to bring a Private Members' Bill to displace to
0:50:39 > 0:50:43strengthen the current legislation. The bill was first introduced in the
0:50:43 > 0:50:53House of Lords in May, 2016, by a crossbench peerpeer, aimed to amend
0:50:53 > 0:50:57the Modern Slavery Act 2015 to require organisations and public
0:50:57 > 0:51:01bodies to include a statement on slavery and human trafficking in
0:51:01 > 0:51:07their annual report, not just on the website.We did come across one
0:51:07 > 0:51:12problem as the annual report and accounts are legal entities, the
0:51:12 > 0:51:15inclusion of the slavery statement would have caused legal headaches,
0:51:15 > 0:51:19but perhaps we need to address that again. At the time of the
0:51:19 > 0:51:23introduction of the Private Members' Bill, the Government recognise the
0:51:23 > 0:51:262015 legislation was only the first step towards a solution to the
0:51:26 > 0:51:32problem. Currently, the legislation only applies to the private sector,
0:51:32 > 0:51:36not the public sector. To include the public sector is still of
0:51:36 > 0:51:40paramount importance. The other part of the bill that we are looking to
0:51:40 > 0:51:44introduce was to extend the requirements of the private sector
0:51:44 > 0:51:50to the public sector too. I find it quite disturbing that the public
0:51:50 > 0:51:55sector which procures vast amount of goods and services is not included
0:51:55 > 0:51:59in the legislation and I feel this is a major flaw which currently
0:51:59 > 0:52:03needs to be corrected. I was pleased the Home Office at the time did have
0:52:03 > 0:52:07meetings with the minister in her place today so we have continuity
0:52:07 > 0:52:12which is fantastic, a Home Office agreed with the sentiment and the
0:52:12 > 0:52:15aspirations of the bill and they were developing policies in line
0:52:15 > 0:52:19with what was laid out in the bill, so I am looking forward to having
0:52:19 > 0:52:22some updates from the minister when she responds at the end of the
0:52:22 > 0:52:29debate as to the progress through the Private Members' Bill. Madam
0:52:29 > 0:52:35Deputy Speaker, I am very proud we lead the fight against modern
0:52:35 > 0:52:38slavery in this country and this battle continues to be a priority
0:52:38 > 0:52:47for our government. Thank you.Thank you. I rise to speak in this debate
0:52:47 > 0:52:53and I thank those that brought it to the Backbench Business Committee, I
0:52:53 > 0:52:59am both of those people! I was on both sides. I just realised as I was
0:52:59 > 0:53:07saying it I was thanking myself twice! I came to this House, prior
0:53:07 > 0:53:12to being here, I ran one of the services that operate safe houses
0:53:12 > 0:53:17and community-based support for victims of modern slavery, we
0:53:17 > 0:53:20largely focused our safe houses on women and children. I think that
0:53:20 > 0:53:27what I found whilst working there, I want to tell a few of the stories of
0:53:27 > 0:53:34the people I met. But the vast majority of women now living in the
0:53:34 > 0:53:37safe accommodation through the national referral mechanism were
0:53:37 > 0:53:39there because they had been trafficked into this country for
0:53:39 > 0:53:49sexual slavery. It is not sex work, these people were slaves. I worked
0:53:49 > 0:53:57with women who were forced to have sex with over 50 men in a day, who
0:53:57 > 0:54:06fed scraps from the table of the honest Johns, my honourable friend
0:54:06 > 0:54:09from Bristol has talked about our need for vigilance. The idea that in
0:54:09 > 0:54:16a modern system of sex work that we have the idea of the honest John
0:54:16 > 0:54:20saying, do you mind if I ask you where you have come from? Are you
0:54:20 > 0:54:25hear out of choice? It is a total fallacy. It is something that
0:54:25 > 0:54:29successive governments have failed to tackle and that we really need to
0:54:29 > 0:54:36be tackling now because the amount of women prostituted from different
0:54:36 > 0:54:40countries and exploited and traffic around the country who are from the
0:54:40 > 0:54:47UK originally is absolutely phenomenal. There are hundreds and
0:54:47 > 0:54:50hundreds and hundreds of women who have gone through just the service
0:54:50 > 0:54:55are used to work for and if we do not tackle this head on, then we are
0:54:55 > 0:55:00letting down the victims of slavery. Some people may be want to call it
0:55:00 > 0:55:04something more civilised like sex work. I want to also talk about some
0:55:04 > 0:55:09of the problems I found while working in that service and I worked
0:55:09 > 0:55:13very closely with the Home Office and before that, the Ministry of
0:55:13 > 0:55:15Justice, because they were originally the department that held
0:55:15 > 0:55:23it. Everybody wanted success. There are still some major and glaring
0:55:23 > 0:55:27holes in how we treat the victim and how the victim goes on the journey.
0:55:27 > 0:55:31One of the things I wonder if the Minister could feedback on is the
0:55:31 > 0:55:37difference between those who are housed in safe houses and those
0:55:37 > 0:55:39housed in generic accommodation through the asylum system in this
0:55:39 > 0:55:44country. Because the difference, there is a two tier system for
0:55:44 > 0:55:47slaves in this country, essentially, were those that live in safe houses
0:55:47 > 0:55:55are getting amazing... I would say that! I ran up the curtains, made
0:55:55 > 0:55:59them lovely, brilliant. There is a two tier system, I remember in one
0:55:59 > 0:56:03instance a woman, she did not qualify to get into the safe us
0:56:03 > 0:56:07because of immigration status, I went to visit her in one of the
0:56:07 > 0:56:12asylum accommodations, this woman was pregnant, she was nearly nine
0:56:12 > 0:56:16months pregnant, she looked considerably thinner than even I was
0:56:16 > 0:56:23at the time and she was sleeping on the floor and was being given one
0:56:23 > 0:56:27meal a day. I was there to offer her some community support and give her
0:56:27 > 0:56:31some money and she wanted to move accommodation from where she was and
0:56:31 > 0:56:36she was going to be moved that data Nottingham through the system and I
0:56:36 > 0:56:40said, normally I would kick off about this because you are in the
0:56:40 > 0:56:44very final stages of your pregnancy, you need to stay with the continuity
0:56:44 > 0:56:50of care, and she cried and begged me to not stop her being moved. As a
0:56:50 > 0:56:59practitioner who has a duty of care to a pregnant woman, I left myself
0:56:59 > 0:57:01in a terrible dilemma and that is something that has to be tackled.
0:57:01 > 0:57:06The other thing which has been raised by my right and Bob Friend,
0:57:06 > 0:57:10the chair of the all-party Parliamentary group, the issue
0:57:10 > 0:57:14around what happens after the 45 day reflection period -- my right
0:57:14 > 0:57:18honourable friend. I cannot remember anyone coming in and are only being
0:57:18 > 0:57:2345 days is the honest truth. The way the system works as you apply to
0:57:23 > 0:57:28have more days and you always get it, to be fair. The system is not
0:57:28 > 0:57:34mean in that sense, but nobody ever only needs 45 days. Talking about
0:57:34 > 0:57:37deeply traumatised people, people trying to take their organs,
0:57:37 > 0:57:42enslaving them, having sex with them 50 times a day, 45 days is never
0:57:42 > 0:57:48going to be enough. But what happens to those people afterwards is a
0:57:48 > 0:57:52massive, massive concern. They are lost from services and services like
0:57:52 > 0:57:56mine which was black countrywomen's paid, we would try and do everything
0:57:56 > 0:58:04we could to keep in touch on an informal basis with people. However,
0:58:04 > 0:58:09organisations like black country women's aid do not have the
0:58:09 > 0:58:12resources, they are doing amazing and innovative things, I saw them
0:58:12 > 0:58:16last week talking about trying to understand the links between
0:58:16 > 0:58:20substance misuse and human trafficking, really innovative
0:58:20 > 0:58:25stuff, but they have 178 people in service today on one day, they do
0:58:25 > 0:58:30not have the resources as the voluntary sector to be the system
0:58:30 > 0:58:33that follows those people afterwards. It is an organisation
0:58:33 > 0:58:38dealing with 8000 people per year across different services. The
0:58:38 > 0:58:42system needs to... There needs to be a system put in place by the
0:58:42 > 0:58:46Government to ensure the drop-off does not happen. For those who are
0:58:46 > 0:58:49Patrick Head, and I think many people would be surprised,
0:58:49 > 0:58:55especially those of us who deal with immigration cases, the number who
0:58:55 > 0:58:59want to be repacked rated. That is maybe one issue about not being up
0:58:59 > 0:59:02to find those people and hoping they are all right, but those who are
0:59:02 > 0:59:06still in the UK, and how they are being trafficked around, it has got
0:59:06 > 0:59:14to be tackled. And the long-term recovery. The issue of the criminal
0:59:14 > 0:59:19compensation must be bottomed out. A man who lived in slavery for 13
0:59:19 > 0:59:23years, his aggressors were sent to prison for two and a half years.
0:59:23 > 0:59:29Currently not being able to access compensation, that is a disgrace. He
0:59:29 > 0:59:33also has no National Insurance contributions. We have to look after
0:59:33 > 0:59:38these people afterwards and make the system that works for all of them.
0:59:38 > 0:59:43Thank you very much. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable
0:59:43 > 0:59:53lady in this passionate debate. Some of those very difficult personal
0:59:53 > 0:59:57experiences really do hit home. I would like to thank the right
0:59:57 > 1:00:02honourable member for security in this important debate and his
1:00:02 > 1:00:06passionate opening, tackling modern slavery is so important. I thank him
1:00:06 > 1:00:12for his work he has done. And all members on all sides of this House
1:00:12 > 1:00:17and the organisations and individuals who do so much. I know
1:00:17 > 1:00:22the Minister shares very strong concerns about exploitation, the
1:00:22 > 1:00:26safety of women and girls, and to make sure victims are identified and
1:00:26 > 1:00:32looked after and working with partners such as the NHS. As we have
1:00:32 > 1:00:36heard, our Prime Minister in her previous role and indeed in her
1:00:36 > 1:00:40current role was absolutely leading the example of how internationally
1:00:40 > 1:00:45we will need to step up and stamp out slavery in all forms. As the
1:00:45 > 1:00:48chair of the all-party women in Parliament group it is really
1:00:48 > 1:00:54important we use the fact we have women in Parliament, all sides and
1:00:54 > 1:00:58benches, with more women than ever, able to stand up and make these
1:00:58 > 1:01:03positions heard. We have heard that from all sides of the House. We
1:01:03 > 1:01:09really need to take... Of course. Thank you. A few months ago, we had
1:01:09 > 1:01:15police raids in North Wales. There were people who were being kept
1:01:15 > 1:01:19effectively as slaves. The actual response of a lot of people was, we
1:01:19 > 1:01:22never realised this sort of thing went on here. There is this idea
1:01:22 > 1:01:27that it is only in perhaps London or big cities, it is through the
1:01:27 > 1:01:32country.
1:01:32 > 1:01:35I absolutely agree with the honourable gentleman. In fact, I
1:01:35 > 1:01:41found that in my own constituency. I did not think it affected Hampshire,
1:01:41 > 1:01:46and it does. I agree we need to be vigilant in this. We need to focus
1:01:46 > 1:01:50on the drug trafficking, the criminal exploitation we have heard
1:01:50 > 1:01:55about in the agricultural sector, the sexual exploitation of
1:01:55 > 1:01:58vulnerable people and in my particular area I found it was
1:01:58 > 1:02:02people with learning difficulties as well who were being exploited. As we
1:02:02 > 1:02:11have heard, the 2015 slavery act has been a very welcome and we heard
1:02:11 > 1:02:15from my right honourable friend the member for Maidstone and the wheeled
1:02:15 > 1:02:20about some excellent points that she raised about moving on this
1:02:20 > 1:02:25ground-breaking act and I think they were very hard to disagree with. I
1:02:25 > 1:02:30think the act made a strong signal for criminals about the vile trade
1:02:30 > 1:02:36which is going on, but I think like any act, there is a chance to move
1:02:36 > 1:02:41this forward. Not only is it making a difference locally, it is at home
1:02:41 > 1:02:47and abroad. I will move on to this other area as well about what we are
1:02:47 > 1:02:52doing abroad and this is really important about the work we are
1:02:52 > 1:03:01doing through our visit finances, it is 0.7% of GDP -- DFI D. We are
1:03:01 > 1:03:07putting lots and lots of money into this work around the world and
1:03:07 > 1:03:13indeed locally, but I think we need to focus, as we have heard from
1:03:13 > 1:03:18around the Chamber on outcomes. It is important that those affected by
1:03:18 > 1:03:22modern slavery, so it is about 150 million we are spending tackling it
1:03:22 > 1:03:26alone, with the 20 million global investment fund, that we actually
1:03:26 > 1:03:31look at the outcomes instead of just talking about change. We have of
1:03:31 > 1:03:37course seen the Prime Minister working with the UN on this. We know
1:03:37 > 1:03:39there were events locally in the Speaker 's house on this as well. We
1:03:39 > 1:03:48all know what we need to be done. In Eastleigh, churches have come to me
1:03:48 > 1:03:53raising their concerns. I certainly think that they are very clued in
1:03:53 > 1:03:59both locally and internationally, about the concerns. One particular
1:03:59 > 1:04:08consistency and Jacques Rogge constituency survey was meeting a
1:04:08 > 1:04:15mother and her teenage girl and explaining what she thought was a
1:04:15 > 1:04:21positive relationship was in fact based on exploitation. I think
1:04:21 > 1:04:23sometimes we think about large exploitative gangs but sometimes it
1:04:23 > 1:04:27can be down to one or two people with a handful of young girls who
1:04:27 > 1:04:33are learning this as a positive relationship and frankly, it is not.
1:04:33 > 1:04:38Another area of concern I have found in my constituency is grown-up
1:04:38 > 1:04:43children at exploiting their parents or grandparents for drug money. In
1:04:43 > 1:04:48effect, making them continue to go to work to fund their choices, to
1:04:48 > 1:04:54support those who are maybe addicted to drugs, who are basically lodging
1:04:54 > 1:04:57of the family. They are exploiting their own family, making them carry
1:04:57 > 1:05:02on going to work when they don't need to, to fund a lifestyle choice.
1:05:02 > 1:05:07When we do look at this act we perhaps need to look more broadly.
1:05:07 > 1:05:11But colleagues across this House, I think there is more that can be done
1:05:11 > 1:05:15and it has to be recognised that the Government has taken some giant
1:05:15 > 1:05:19leaps forward, particularly on the human aspect and the pain and
1:05:19 > 1:05:24suffering that we see, but business absolutely has a role to play and
1:05:24 > 1:05:29communities, seeking this out and not letting people hide from it. In
1:05:29 > 1:05:34ensuring transparency, we heard it today, on businesses and supply
1:05:34 > 1:05:38chains, the fashion industry in particular. If we look at the
1:05:38 > 1:05:41garments we are wearing, how would we know where they were made and how
1:05:41 > 1:05:45have they come to be and would we be confident about that? I recently
1:05:45 > 1:05:52went out with Hampshire Constabulary Marine unit, as one of their
1:05:52 > 1:05:56operations. My constituency in Eastleigh is on the Hamble River. We
1:05:56 > 1:06:00go on to Southampton water and across the Solent. I would like to
1:06:00 > 1:06:04say thank you so much to all the police who are involved in the
1:06:04 > 1:06:10operations they do. Absolutely, out on those waters, making sure those
1:06:10 > 1:06:14operations are doing the right things in terms of slavery, because
1:06:14 > 1:06:18people are coming across and victims are being trafficked across and
1:06:18 > 1:06:22without those members of the Marine unit, we simply would not find out
1:06:22 > 1:06:28what is going on, and they shared with me most recently some real
1:06:28 > 1:06:34concerns about what needs to be done to help them make changes for those
1:06:34 > 1:06:41people who find themselves in boats being sent across the water. I look
1:06:41 > 1:06:44forward to welcoming the comments from the Minister and the
1:06:44 > 1:06:48opportunity this House house to take this act forward and indeed,
1:06:48 > 1:06:55changing the lives of so many people, just by opening our eyes.
1:06:55 > 1:07:01Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I begin by congratulating the
1:07:01 > 1:07:03honourable member for Eastleigh. The good thing about this debate is the
1:07:03 > 1:07:07passion that is being shown on all sides of the House. And probably for
1:07:07 > 1:07:12the first and only time I want to place on record my own recognition
1:07:12 > 1:07:17of the value of the Prime Minister's role when she was Home Secretary in
1:07:17 > 1:07:23bringing forward this legislation. Partly actually because it showed
1:07:23 > 1:07:26leadership on an issue where leadership is absolutely
1:07:26 > 1:07:29fundamental, whether at national or local level. It really does make a
1:07:29 > 1:07:37difference. Perhaps I should begin almost on the same track as my
1:07:37 > 1:07:42friend for Birmingham Yardley. One I was Police and Crime Commissioner in
1:07:42 > 1:07:45Greater Manchester, a woman, when a brothel was raided, she was asked
1:07:45 > 1:07:51whether she was trafficked. She denied vehemently that under any
1:07:51 > 1:07:54circumstances she was trafficked, until she was taken to room on her
1:07:54 > 1:08:00own when she said, look, I have been trafficked. I need you to drag me
1:08:00 > 1:08:03out of here in handcuffs, with me fighting and kicking and screaming,
1:08:03 > 1:08:10because I need to demonstrate to my traffickers that I am not a willing
1:08:10 > 1:08:17accomplice. This woman was no sex worker. She was a sex slave. In that
1:08:17 > 1:08:22particular case, the police were able to work with her to bring about
1:08:22 > 1:08:27a different ambition. If I go back a few years, my honourable friend for
1:08:27 > 1:08:31Gedling said going back to his time as police Minister, I don't think
1:08:31 > 1:08:36any of us were talking enough about slavery in that time. Even when I
1:08:36 > 1:08:40first begin to have conversations about the then Chief Constable and
1:08:40 > 1:08:46the now Chief Constable, we did not I think have in Greater Manchester a
1:08:46 > 1:08:50proper understanding of what slavery was all about. I'm glad to say the
1:08:50 > 1:08:55HMIC report, which was critical of policing, did say there were some
1:08:55 > 1:09:00bright spots and Greater Manchester was one of those bright spots. I
1:09:00 > 1:09:03have pride, not in myself but among the people who have made it work.
1:09:03 > 1:09:11The has-been leadership from the present Chief Constable. The Chief
1:09:11 > 1:09:16Superintendent who has direct line responsibility, and I want to praise
1:09:16 > 1:09:20Detective Sergeant Debra Hurst and her team, because this is a
1:09:20 > 1:09:24dedicated small team of officers, only four or five of them, who have
1:09:24 > 1:09:27been committed to this role. Because they have taken the time and they
1:09:27 > 1:09:32care to understand what this is all about, they have been able, if you
1:09:32 > 1:09:37like, to affect the whole of Greater Manchester Police and beyond with an
1:09:37 > 1:09:42ambition to make a difference. GMP has trained 120 victim liaison
1:09:42 > 1:09:48officers. Dealing with people who have been through the trauma of
1:09:48 > 1:09:54enslavement, by working with them, really is of fundamental importance.
1:09:54 > 1:09:58There are many languages in Greater Manchester. Slaves themselves, those
1:09:58 > 1:10:03who are enslaved come from many language backgrounds. The police
1:10:03 > 1:10:07very often are facing cultural differences. Even some very simple
1:10:07 > 1:10:13issues that women from prostitution, for example, face. They need things
1:10:13 > 1:10:17like toiletries and clean underwear. Those kind of furry basic needs. The
1:10:17 > 1:10:21fact that we now have trained victim liaison officers who can recognise
1:10:21 > 1:10:26the need to go through the journey with people from enslavement is
1:10:26 > 1:10:31really an important issue. I think a number of members on all sides have
1:10:31 > 1:10:36talked about the need for a wider partnership, and there is no doubt
1:10:36 > 1:10:43building that kind of partnership has a number of impacts. One is
1:10:43 > 1:10:49immigration, the police and border force are all absolutely fundamental
1:10:49 > 1:10:55partners in this in making a system of protective service work and that
1:10:55 > 1:10:59does make a real difference. Building that partnership is all
1:10:59 > 1:11:04about something else. It does open up the conversation about what
1:11:04 > 1:11:09enslavement looks like in our society. Frankly, it is everywhere.
1:11:09 > 1:11:14Yes, it is obvious in some aspects of prostitution. Sometimes we see
1:11:14 > 1:11:21children who have been entrapped into the county lines. Sometimes
1:11:21 > 1:11:25these are issues which we know exist. Frankly, the people enslaved
1:11:25 > 1:11:30can be in almost any occupation, any area of activity, and we need to
1:11:30 > 1:11:35recognise that. We do therefore need to raise public awareness and if you
1:11:35 > 1:11:39like, corporate awareness as well. I thought it was sad my honourable
1:11:39 > 1:11:43friend for Bristol East made the point about the criticism of Avon
1:11:43 > 1:11:46and Somerset police force. Frankly, it's a few police officers put nail
1:11:46 > 1:11:51varnish on to bring home to the public that in our nail bars there
1:11:51 > 1:11:55may be people who are enslaved, I don't think that such a terrible
1:11:55 > 1:12:01thing to do. It is a sensible thing, because it is actually saying to the
1:12:01 > 1:12:06public, please be aware, please think about where people around you
1:12:06 > 1:12:13may be enslaved. A couple of points, if I may. One of the things that I
1:12:13 > 1:12:18hope the Minister will consider, at the moment, there is a duty to
1:12:18 > 1:12:23notify, but that duty to notify is still circumscribed, but we may be
1:12:23 > 1:12:27do need to look at extending that concept. We also have talked,
1:12:27 > 1:12:35members have talked about the facilities for when people are
1:12:35 > 1:12:40broken from their enslavement is. Very often, one of the issues is
1:12:40 > 1:12:44that first night accommodation. Where do people go, literally on the
1:12:44 > 1:12:57day that police and others bring them? I have paid for a safe place
1:12:57 > 1:13:00for that emergency accommodation but we do need to look at the issue of
1:13:00 > 1:13:05ongoing accommodation, and we do need to work with the voluntary
1:13:05 > 1:13:12sector in making sure that provision is there. And they, provision of
1:13:12 > 1:13:15institutional support is absolutely fundamental in this. If I can
1:13:15 > 1:13:20finish, perhaps on a good note, my red for Gedling talked about the
1:13:20 > 1:13:27need for compensation. There is a case of a woman Alexandra, Hungarian
1:13:27 > 1:13:31woman who was tricked into coming to the UK to Greater Manchester, with
1:13:31 > 1:13:37the offer of legitimate work. She was forced to work and I will use
1:13:37 > 1:13:42the term sex worker, on the streets of Manchester. Nothing voluntary
1:13:42 > 1:13:46about that. The good news is the police were able to work with her.
1:13:46 > 1:13:51They worked with her to such an extent, that she came back too
1:13:51 > 1:13:55hungry to take place in the prosecution. The criminal injuries
1:13:55 > 1:14:00authority did Ward, they should. She is now living with her son in
1:14:00 > 1:14:07Hungary, happy and free. I congratulate the honourable
1:14:07 > 1:14:11gentleman from Gedling on bringing this important debate and also the
1:14:11 > 1:14:14honourable lady from Birmingham Yardley, she comes to this House
1:14:14 > 1:14:19with a huge experience and passion and we're lucky to have someone with
1:14:19 > 1:14:23her background in this place. This week there was a highly critical
1:14:23 > 1:14:28report that found police forces are failing to tackle modern slavery and
1:14:28 > 1:14:31human trafficking because the cases are often too difficult and senior
1:14:31 > 1:14:35officers believe the public lack sympathy for victims. This report
1:14:35 > 1:14:39should concern us all as we consider our international obligations and
1:14:39 > 1:14:43how we support those who are involved in trafficking and modern
1:14:43 > 1:14:49slavery. Sadly I have my own constituency experience. You come to
1:14:49 > 1:14:54this role and you have an idea of what you may or may not deal with.
1:14:54 > 1:14:58In my constituency of Livingston, I have to say I did not expect to deal
1:14:58 > 1:15:01with modern slavery, but the case we have had to deal with has been
1:15:01 > 1:15:05deeply distressing for my constituent and also my constituency
1:15:05 > 1:15:11staff. She was trafficked from Nigeria to London at the age of 14,
1:15:11 > 1:15:15subjected to horrific abuse, including rape, before she escaped
1:15:15 > 1:15:19to my constituency of Livingston. The Metropolitan Police worked
1:15:19 > 1:15:28incredibly hard to bring charges against her kidnapper, but told us
1:15:28 > 1:15:31in the aftermath, and when we were dealing with her case initially, the
1:15:31 > 1:15:34burden of proof in these cases is often so high, that they were not
1:15:34 > 1:15:36able to charge anyone. Unfortunately, the Home Office were
1:15:36 > 1:15:38predicated on her leave to remain on the conviction of her abuser, which
1:15:38 > 1:15:41in itself I feel highlights the flaws in the Home Office internal
1:15:41 > 1:15:45processes. I do want to recognise the work that has been done by the
1:15:45 > 1:15:48Government in bringing the bonds slavery act and the work they are
1:15:48 > 1:15:53doing, but I think my constituency case highlights some of the
1:15:53 > 1:16:01challenges and floors -- Modern Slavery Act. I identify some of the
1:16:01 > 1:16:05issues. I would advise that the burden of proof in a criminal case
1:16:05 > 1:16:13is far higher beyond all reasonable doubt than of a civil case. In light
1:16:13 > 1:16:18of this, I would suggest any outcome of a criminal case not impact on any
1:16:18 > 1:16:23immigration appeal. I know the Prime Minister when she was Home Secretary
1:16:23 > 1:16:27commissioned a report which said slavery remained under reported but
1:16:27 > 1:16:31operational response was improving, however the response said there was
1:16:31 > 1:16:35a lack of consistency between law-enforcement and criminal justice
1:16:35 > 1:16:41agencies and poor quality intelligence at all levels.
1:16:41 > 1:16:46As things stand, my constituency has -- my
1:16:46 > 1:16:48As things stand, my constituency has -- my constituent has the temporary
1:16:48 > 1:16:51right to remain. The Home Office needs to review its processes and
1:16:51 > 1:16:55this case. The case might have been difficult but the officers who
1:16:55 > 1:17:01worked on it fought tooth and nail from a constituent and I want to pay
1:17:01 > 1:17:07tribute to the Met Police and put on record how grateful I am for the
1:17:07 > 1:17:10work they did to protect my constituent when she was scared,
1:17:10 > 1:17:14scared to send her children to school, when she was worried her
1:17:14 > 1:17:19attacker may come to Scotland and seek her out. The notion that
1:17:19 > 1:17:25anybody can that empathy or sympathy, to me, it beggars belief.
1:17:25 > 1:17:29That is what the report says. Listening to the case of my
1:17:29 > 1:17:32constituent, anyone would find it difficult, and the cases of others
1:17:32 > 1:17:39brought forward, to have sympathy for those. She was brought at the
1:17:39 > 1:17:46age of 14, taken to Nigeria, an airport, given clothes and told she
1:17:46 > 1:17:50would be leaving the country. The women who took her told her not to
1:17:50 > 1:17:54talk to anyone and do she was told. She was brought to London and taken
1:17:54 > 1:17:58to a house where she was told she would be staying and looking after
1:17:58 > 1:18:02children. She asked the woman when she would be going back to school.
1:18:02 > 1:18:06It was the first time the woman slapped her. Mrs George asked about
1:18:06 > 1:18:09her mother and she was told only to speak when she was spoken to and
1:18:09 > 1:18:13that she would not be allowed to make any friends. Her daily routine
1:18:13 > 1:18:17but getting up at 5am to get the children ready for school,
1:18:17 > 1:18:23collecting them, shopping, cleaning, cooking. If she went out on an
1:18:23 > 1:18:26errand, the woman would spit on the floor and tell her she had to be
1:18:26 > 1:18:34back before the split had dried or she would be beaten. She was beaten
1:18:34 > 1:18:38on a daily basis, she had her head flushed down the toilet, she was
1:18:38 > 1:18:43often privy to what we believe were drug deals within the house. She had
1:18:43 > 1:18:50a kettle of boiling water poured over her chest. The details are very
1:18:50 > 1:18:54distressing. My constituent gave us permission before I came to the
1:18:54 > 1:18:58House today to share those. I have not shared them publicly before
1:18:58 > 1:19:02although I have raised the case and I am grateful for the work done by
1:19:02 > 1:19:05the Home Office. Mrs George was terrified that she would be killed
1:19:05 > 1:19:09and that nobody would know she was there. She was told if she ran away,
1:19:09 > 1:19:13nobody would believe her. There was nowhere for her to hide and she
1:19:13 > 1:19:18would not be found, she was told. She said there were often men honey
1:19:18 > 1:19:22around and eventually when she escaped at 17, she spent some time
1:19:22 > 1:19:25on the streets, homeless, and eventually was held at knife-point
1:19:25 > 1:19:30and raped in North London -- men hanging around. She escaped with her
1:19:30 > 1:19:36now husband to Livingston, they have jobs, three children, beautiful
1:19:36 > 1:19:41children, they started a new life in Livingston, but when she applied for
1:19:41 > 1:19:46indefinite leave to remain, she was told she could not work. Since the
1:19:46 > 1:19:49Home Office intervention and temporary leave to remain, both her
1:19:49 > 1:19:54and her husband have returned to work and her husband recently won an
1:19:54 > 1:19:58award for social entrepreneurship. It seems incredible that today
1:19:58 > 1:20:04anybody would face such persecution and such terrible treatment, but it
1:20:04 > 1:20:07is the reality of my constituent and I asked the Minister today to work
1:20:07 > 1:20:12with me to look again at this case. It is so distressing. She has come
1:20:12 > 1:20:18to Livingston and spent significant years there bringing up her children
1:20:18 > 1:20:21and contributing to society. The Scottish Government has done a huge
1:20:21 > 1:20:24amount of work on the Sun published its trafficking and exploitation
1:20:24 > 1:20:33strategy to identify Papa support victims and disrupt activity. I know
1:20:33 > 1:20:36the Scottish Government is hugely committed to that work and would
1:20:36 > 1:20:43encourage the UK Government to look at the good example being worked on.
1:20:43 > 1:20:50-- to identify perpetrators. The flaws that exist in the legal system
1:20:50 > 1:20:55and in the Home Office are real, real constituency cases we have, so
1:20:55 > 1:20:59I hope the minister is listening and she will do all she can to make sure
1:20:59 > 1:21:06the flaws in the system are sorted out.Thank you. May I congratulate
1:21:06 > 1:21:11the right honourable friend for moving this important debate? It
1:21:11 > 1:21:18goes without saying human trafficking, sexual exploitation,
1:21:18 > 1:21:23forced labour, organ harvesting, servitude, to name but a few forms
1:21:23 > 1:21:26of modern slavery, it is criminally deplorable. For many people, it goes
1:21:26 > 1:21:33unseen. It is for this House and for others to make it clear slavery
1:21:33 > 1:21:38continues to exist at every level of our society, including in my
1:21:38 > 1:21:42constituency of Bristol North West. As recently as July, as my right
1:21:42 > 1:21:49honourable friend said, even in Somerset a nail bombers raided,
1:21:49 > 1:21:53arresting four people on suspicion of human trafficking and slavery. --
1:21:53 > 1:22:01a nail bar was raided. In one of my first constituency surgeries as a
1:22:01 > 1:22:04new MP, and constituent came to me with little English, tearful, unable
1:22:04 > 1:22:10to communicate the sheer disempowerment and lack of dignity
1:22:10 > 1:22:13she had suffered from sexual exploitation in another part of this
1:22:13 > 1:22:24country, but thanks to the helpline and Modern Slavery Act, she was
1:22:24 > 1:22:29being supported, although with the slow visa process. Car washes and
1:22:29 > 1:22:37nail bars require local knowledge. I shared concerns that the papers have
1:22:37 > 1:22:40so-called reported a backlash against Avon and Somerset
1:22:40 > 1:22:45Constabulary for wanting to raise this issue on social media in a way
1:22:45 > 1:22:48that communicates to people in their daily lives to keep an eye out for
1:22:48 > 1:22:52where do you see these activities happening, and so with thanks to my
1:22:52 > 1:23:01honourable friend 's, perhaps it is... I too proudly paint my nails
1:23:01 > 1:23:12today in support of the Let's Nail It Campaign. For those... It is not
1:23:12 > 1:23:17an endorsement of Eddie Izzard for the labour NEC. We know much more
1:23:17 > 1:23:21needs to be done and in the face of continued and severe cuts to
1:23:21 > 1:23:26policing, the job is becoming more difficult. I often stand here and
1:23:26 > 1:23:32say Bristol is leading the way, but perhaps that is the case with this
1:23:32 > 1:23:37too. In 2008, there were safe houses. In 2011, resettlement
1:23:37 > 1:23:43service. In 2013, the establishment of the anti-slavery partnership in
1:23:43 > 1:23:50Bristol and now the headquarters of the national charity Unseen. In true
1:23:50 > 1:23:53Bristol fashion, we are also innovating in the way we do these
1:23:53 > 1:23:57things. As the honourable member has mentioned, the transparency and
1:23:57 > 1:24:02supply chains report, the TISC report, helping to track and monitor
1:24:02 > 1:24:09compliance with the modern slavery act, it was built in Bristol
1:24:09 > 1:24:12providing the compliant solution to prevent modern slavery. But there is
1:24:12 > 1:24:19little point in legislating without enforcement. We have already heard
1:24:19 > 1:24:23about the difficulties of police being able to enforce because of
1:24:23 > 1:24:28cuts to funding, but even the TISC report which has a growing list of
1:24:28 > 1:24:33over 2000 companies who continue to not comply with their reporting
1:24:33 > 1:24:36obligations under the act, I do not know whether the minister has seen
1:24:36 > 1:24:40the report, I'm very happy to arrange for a copy to be given to
1:24:40 > 1:24:43her, but I hope she will set out what she will do to ensure companies
1:24:43 > 1:24:50get in line and take this matter seriously. I finally draw attention
1:24:50 > 1:24:55to the issue of construction projects. Web projects are entirely
1:24:55 > 1:24:59privately funded, checks and balances are by Prost and with the
1:24:59 > 1:25:04use of subcontractors who subcontract, umbrella companies to
1:25:04 > 1:25:07sign a deal but do not employ workers themselves, the situation
1:25:07 > 1:25:12becomes much more complex. It is often at the depths of the
1:25:12 > 1:25:15subcontractor chain were exploitation takes place. I raise
1:25:15 > 1:25:22this because I have significant construction projects in or near my
1:25:22 > 1:25:27constituency, Hinkley Point C, supply chains, new homes, expanding
1:25:27 > 1:25:30retail, major infrastructure upgrades in Bristol. I understand
1:25:30 > 1:25:34from trade union officials who play a vital role on the shop floor
1:25:34 > 1:25:39checking whether this exploitation is happening that there are concerns
1:25:39 > 1:25:44of unethical working practices and moving on modern slavery, in that I
1:25:44 > 1:25:47am working with them on. Learning the lessons from the Welsh
1:25:47 > 1:25:51Government who have brought together unethical working practices
1:25:51 > 1:25:55alongside modern slavery to create an ethical workplace constituents, I
1:25:55 > 1:26:00will begin a new project next year to to eradicate unethical working
1:26:00 > 1:26:04practices and modern slavery from my constituency. To those individuals
1:26:04 > 1:26:09and companies who we know exploit or enslave constituents, or those who
1:26:09 > 1:26:15enslave others, let me be clear, you are on notice, you are not welcome,
1:26:15 > 1:26:19working with partners, we will ensure you are prosecuted. In order
1:26:19 > 1:26:25to do this work properly, I must work with businesses, trade unions,
1:26:25 > 1:26:29community groups, and important innovations such as the TISC report
1:26:29 > 1:26:33with proper funding for policing and support from the Home Office to
1:26:33 > 1:26:36support those who have been enslaved, so I make the final plea
1:26:36 > 1:26:40to the minister to set out how the government in face of all of these
1:26:40 > 1:26:45challenges will ensure a good piece of legislation in the Modern Slavery
1:26:45 > 1:26:49Act is enforced properly and how we can work with partners to ensure is
1:26:49 > 1:26:55that is the case.I appreciate the opportunity to speak in this debate
1:26:55 > 1:26:58on a subject I feel very strongly about because it is one that gets to
1:26:58 > 1:27:03the root of who and where we are as a society, it tells us a lot about
1:27:03 > 1:27:08whether we truly are the peaceful, free, modern 21st-century democracy
1:27:08 > 1:27:12we strive to be and that we support others to be as well. Much we have
1:27:12 > 1:27:16heard in this debate, much to be proud of, I am new to this place,
1:27:16 > 1:27:21but I am aware of the 2015 at it has been described as trailblazing, and
1:27:21 > 1:27:25we should celebrate there are those protections for individuals in law.
1:27:25 > 1:27:29We should celebrate the obligations on businesses to be transparent
1:27:29 > 1:27:33about modern slavery and the possible risk and we should
1:27:33 > 1:27:36celebrate the great legal powers for the authorities to bring those to
1:27:36 > 1:27:39justice who do the awful things we have heard in this discussion. But
1:27:39 > 1:27:44as last week we celebrate the passing of modern slavery day, it is
1:27:44 > 1:27:47right we consider how the law is doing and how we can make sure it
1:27:47 > 1:27:57delivers
1:28:03 > 1:28:05what we want it to. I would like to congratulate my honourable friend
1:28:05 > 1:28:08for securing this debate, I was proud to support it, but also to
1:28:08 > 1:28:10congratulate him on his work as co-chair of the old parliamentary
1:28:10 > 1:28:12party group on human trafficking. I know members are very active in
1:28:12 > 1:28:15that. I will focus on firstly awareness and secondly what we might
1:28:15 > 1:28:17do to the current legislation. I start with awareness because as I
1:28:17 > 1:28:20guess... I have learned something in the course of this discussion I did
1:28:20 > 1:28:22not know. The honourable member highlighted the scheme that is
1:28:22 > 1:28:27apparently, if I have understood, operating in my dioceses, so I will
1:28:27 > 1:28:33be seeking them out to see how I might help with that. Having laid my
1:28:33 > 1:28:37own ignorance on the table, I was shocked to read the results of the
1:28:37 > 1:28:40polls by the Co-op Group that one in five people in Britain have never
1:28:40 > 1:28:44heard of modern slavery and two thirds, the critical thing, would
1:28:44 > 1:28:49not know what to do to spot the crime. Furthermore, that poll said a
1:28:49 > 1:28:53tenth of Britons think they may have come across a victim yet half would
1:28:53 > 1:28:58not know how to react or who to talk to, a poll of 2000 people. Clearly
1:28:58 > 1:29:02there is something that must be done and that is a role for us in this
1:29:02 > 1:29:06place and as leaders in our communities and an important role
1:29:06 > 1:29:08the business and local authorities to plague heightening awareness,
1:29:08 > 1:29:14using whatever power or influence they have to make sure people know
1:29:14 > 1:29:19what is going on, how to spot it, and what to do. Before I came to
1:29:19 > 1:29:24this place, I was a member of Nottingham City Council, one of my
1:29:24 > 1:29:28special responsibilities was around procurement. It is very difficult on
1:29:28 > 1:29:34a monthly procurement committee, an awful lot of very important thing is
1:29:34 > 1:29:37commissioned, from public sources, private sources, community and
1:29:37 > 1:29:41voluntary sector sources, following the pounds through, as the
1:29:41 > 1:29:44honourable member said, through the first commissioning process to where
1:29:44 > 1:29:48they might be going next, very difficult. Perhaps we could learn
1:29:48 > 1:29:51from the Welsh Assembly government about their code of practice to make
1:29:51 > 1:29:57sure local authority leads are able to properly follow the money and
1:29:57 > 1:30:00make sure they are not doing things they would not countenance they
1:30:00 > 1:30:04would do. Outside of statutory services, innovative employment
1:30:04 > 1:30:10programme such as the Co-op and anti-trafficking group which claims
1:30:10 > 1:30:14to offer proper work to victims of modern slavery, so they can get on
1:30:14 > 1:30:18and get their lives back to normal and be treated properly. Those are
1:30:18 > 1:30:23the sorts of things we can do around awareness, just last month, the
1:30:23 > 1:30:26Prime Minister, who I want to associate myself with comments
1:30:26 > 1:30:30across the House about and the Prime Minister is leading that, she said
1:30:30 > 1:30:34she hoped we would reimagine the British dream, time to forge a bold
1:30:34 > 1:30:39new role for ourselves on the world stage and take the lead on cracking
1:30:39 > 1:30:43down on modern slavery wherever it is found, and that is really
1:30:43 > 1:30:47important. Moving on to the act, the member state it that she did not
1:30:47 > 1:30:52feel the estimates of 10-13,000 exploited people were accurate, I
1:30:52 > 1:30:58share that, I know the police think it is the tip of the iceberg and the
1:30:58 > 1:31:02tsar has described the estimate as far too low. We know we need to do
1:31:02 > 1:31:06more to find these victims and help them out. A good place to start is
1:31:06 > 1:31:11with the obligation of transparency, to look at the businesses or
1:31:11 > 1:31:15businesses operating in the UK with a global turnover of 36 million to
1:31:15 > 1:31:20see, is this working? I have tabled written questions to ministers, not
1:31:20 > 1:31:23to show anyone up, but to build up a picture of what has happened and I
1:31:23 > 1:31:29know it is very variable in terms of how firms have treated the
1:31:29 > 1:31:33obligation and what we understand in the aggregate as a parliament, as to
1:31:33 > 1:31:37the impact. We need to look at but to see what we can do with the
1:31:37 > 1:31:41public sector, to see whether 36 million has proven and effective
1:31:41 > 1:31:46threshold, to close the loophole, I am concerned with the 2022 World Cup
1:31:46 > 1:31:49in Qatar. At the moment the legislation has a loophole which
1:31:49 > 1:31:55means there is no obligation to report on wholly-owned subsidiaries
1:31:55 > 1:31:59working overseas who could be working in Qatar but there is no
1:31:59 > 1:32:03obligation to report. Firms may unwittingly be involved in things
1:32:03 > 1:32:05they would not countenance doing in Britain and elsewhere and we should
1:32:05 > 1:32:10be concerned about that.
1:32:10 > 1:32:15There are other things we can do as well. The 45 day support has been
1:32:15 > 1:32:20played out by others. Scotland is moving to 90 days. We should look at
1:32:20 > 1:32:25the same, perhaps even further. And to look at what that offer of
1:32:25 > 1:32:31assistance and support should be. The 36 million threshold, we could
1:32:31 > 1:32:33revisit also. Eventually, and I think this touches on what the
1:32:33 > 1:32:39previous speech from my honourable friend was saying, eventually, the
1:32:39 > 1:32:44shoe has to drop with noncompliant companies. I can understand that
1:32:44 > 1:32:48people would say initially as new legislation comes in, there might be
1:32:48 > 1:32:52some patients from firms to get it right, but now we are getting to the
1:32:52 > 1:32:56point where those reports have to be done, they have to be accurate and
1:32:56 > 1:33:00the penalties for not doing so should be considerable. So there is
1:33:00 > 1:33:04lots to do. I think all of those things would improve this
1:33:04 > 1:33:07legislation and improve our society's approach to modern
1:33:07 > 1:33:12slavery. I am one of 38 labour and co-op members of Parliament and this
1:33:12 > 1:33:17is one of the key issues for this year. I will be using my place in
1:33:17 > 1:33:22this chamber and the rest of the other great opportunities we have
1:33:22 > 1:33:27two raise this issue in the House and outside and make sure we make
1:33:27 > 1:33:31the legislation as best as possible and we shine a light into the dark
1:33:31 > 1:33:36corners. Can I start by sincerely
1:33:36 > 1:33:40congratulating the honourable member for Gedling and his colleagues for
1:33:40 > 1:33:42bringing this timely and important debate, and indeed honourable
1:33:42 > 1:33:46members who have taken part today for their thoughtful and powerful
1:33:46 > 1:33:51speeches. I recently had the pleasure to visit the slave trade
1:33:51 > 1:33:56Museum in Liverpool, shockingly and bravely set out the close link
1:33:56 > 1:34:04between that fantastic city and the historic slave trade from Liverpool
1:34:04 > 1:34:08ships transporting thousands across the Atlantic. Many people would
1:34:08 > 1:34:11think that was the only place you would still find slavery today in
1:34:11 > 1:34:19the UK. If this debate has drawn attention to its ongoing existence,
1:34:19 > 1:34:23that is good thing, and I think the painted nails will help in that
1:34:23 > 1:34:29regard. But despair after this parliament voted to abolish the
1:34:29 > 1:34:34slave trade we are once again must face down a new and modern form of
1:34:34 > 1:34:39slavery and trafficking. We have heard the estimate of ten to 30,000
1:34:39 > 1:34:45victims in the UK is likely to be a grave underestimate, and as members
1:34:45 > 1:34:48have outlined, it affect on each of those victims is absolutely
1:34:48 > 1:34:52immeasurable. We all sincerely hope that 2015 will be looked back upon
1:34:52 > 1:34:57as a turning point, the year in which three different parliaments
1:34:57 > 1:35:00took up that battle by passing legislation first of all here, then
1:35:00 > 1:35:06at Holyrood and then in Stormont. That legislation has been widely
1:35:06 > 1:35:13praised. Stronger powers, risk orders, independent child advocates,
1:35:13 > 1:35:16the one thing the Minister might want to addresses when they are
1:35:16 > 1:35:20going to be rolled out across England and Wales, and the duty to
1:35:20 > 1:35:24notify all of which make for a solid legislative platform on which to
1:35:24 > 1:35:29build. Yet again we have a very salutary lesson that legislation in
1:35:29 > 1:35:34itself is not enough, just as indeed the 1807 act was one step too long
1:35:34 > 1:35:44route to ending slave trade. In her one-year review, Caroline Haughey
1:35:44 > 1:35:50said the act was a work in progress and said it could have a strong
1:35:50 > 1:35:54impact is used to its full potential and that is undoubtedly true. I
1:35:54 > 1:35:58commend those on bringing the debate, focusing on implementation
1:35:58 > 1:36:06and they could not have timed it any better with the publication of Her
1:36:06 > 1:36:08Majesty Inspector of Constabulary report from earlier on this week.
1:36:08 > 1:36:14One frustration at looking at that, it almost feels like the Haughey
1:36:14 > 1:36:19review has been sat on a shelf and allowed to gather dust in some
1:36:19 > 1:36:23respects. Haughey suggested there was a need for specialism in forces
1:36:23 > 1:36:28by using single points of contact. She also points to the importance of
1:36:28 > 1:36:31intelligence capacity at regional and international levels and the
1:36:31 > 1:36:36need for tailored training, especially for front line police and
1:36:36 > 1:36:42criminal Justice staff. Reading the HMIC report, it is clear that is not
1:36:42 > 1:36:47happening in far too many places. Mrs Haughey found pockets of good
1:36:47 > 1:36:50practice and the honourable member for Rochdale referred to Greater
1:36:50 > 1:36:55Manchester Police who were strongly praised but overall, the conclusions
1:36:55 > 1:36:58cannot be described as anything other than disappointing. The
1:36:58 > 1:37:03victims have been let down and the police services have to do more
1:37:03 > 1:37:05before it is satisfied and responding quickly to modern slavery
1:37:05 > 1:37:12and human trafficking. As four chief constables acknowledge, this report
1:37:12 > 1:37:17has to be seen as a wake-up call. I detect a willingness there to detect
1:37:17 > 1:37:21this. There are two review setting out what has to be done. What we
1:37:21 > 1:37:25also need is a government to provide resources and a strategy to make it
1:37:25 > 1:37:36happen. A huge range of issues have been raised to date quite rightly by
1:37:36 > 1:37:38honourable members. One which has been mentioned already, is what
1:37:38 > 1:37:40happens in terms of immigration rules if victims are discovered.
1:37:40 > 1:37:47There is report by the work and pensions committee and made powerful
1:37:47 > 1:37:52reports about workers in Dubai about the immigration status and the
1:37:52 > 1:37:58effect it has an access to support. There are those who will be
1:37:58 > 1:38:02recognised as refugees. There are smaller numbers of non-EU nationals
1:38:02 > 1:38:05who have obtained discretion leave without having to apply, and a
1:38:05 > 1:38:10similar number of EEA nationals who are granted that but only after an
1:38:10 > 1:38:15application first of all. For many, there is no stability. That is
1:38:15 > 1:38:19particularly the case for EEA nationals who are almost certainly
1:38:19 > 1:38:22going to find it impossible to show that they are exercising treaty
1:38:22 > 1:38:29rights hair, and that has a knock-on implementation on their ability to
1:38:29 > 1:38:34claim support. The lack of automatic entitlement for victims of
1:38:34 > 1:38:40trafficking when they are taking steps to rebuild their lives is a
1:38:40 > 1:38:46ludicrous situation. As an anti-slavery campaigner pointed out,
1:38:46 > 1:38:51there is precedent for those who are here as domestic servants. We
1:38:51 > 1:39:02recommend all victims be given one-year's leave to remain. Imminent
1:39:02 > 1:39:05removal is a result of coming forward as a victim of trafficking,
1:39:05 > 1:39:15we are going to struggle to find any victims of traffickers to prosecute.
1:39:15 > 1:39:18We need stronger firewall established between those bodies
1:39:18 > 1:39:24enforcing labour standards and those enforcing immigration checks. They
1:39:24 > 1:39:28often have an inconsistent approach and that will be an important issue
1:39:28 > 1:39:30for the new director of labour market and force meant going
1:39:30 > 1:39:35forward. The second issue which has been touched on by the honourable
1:39:35 > 1:39:41members for Bristol East and Erewash, is the issue of the supply
1:39:41 > 1:39:45chains and statements of companies with a turnover of more than £36
1:39:45 > 1:39:48million. It is one of the few provisions in the act to apply
1:39:48 > 1:39:53across the UK. It's clear that these need to be significantly
1:39:53 > 1:40:00strengthened. There must be a requirement to file these with the
1:40:00 > 1:40:03public authority in much greater clarity and what is required in
1:40:03 > 1:40:08them. Mil returns cannot be acceptable otherwise, these
1:40:08 > 1:40:13provisions will be proved to be barely worth the paper they are
1:40:13 > 1:40:19written on. In conclusion, the 2015 legislation was a welcome start,
1:40:19 > 1:40:23only a start, if the modern slavery attacked is to become the turning
1:40:23 > 1:40:29point it can be, resources need to be stepped up -- the Modern Slavery
1:40:29 > 1:40:32Act. I want to thank the Backbench
1:40:32 > 1:40:40Business Committee and the right honourable member for Gedling for
1:40:40 > 1:40:46leading us on the debate. Have been many fantastic contributions from
1:40:46 > 1:40:51both sides of the House, including from honourable friends, the members
1:40:51 > 1:40:59for Livingston, Cumbernauld and I would also like to thank the member
1:40:59 > 1:41:02for Birmingham Yardley for sharing her powerful experiences of working
1:41:02 > 1:41:09within the sector. The debates are better with her in it. Sometimes, as
1:41:09 > 1:41:13my honourable friend said, I think we allow our selves to believe that
1:41:13 > 1:41:17human trafficking takes place in some other country, some other
1:41:17 > 1:41:21culture and some other time and place. However, as we have heard, it
1:41:21 > 1:41:31is happening here throughout our communities. The perfectly laudable
1:41:31 > 1:41:35Modern Slavery Act aims to get rid of slavery including domestic
1:41:35 > 1:41:40servitude and organ removal. These are cases which costs when we hear
1:41:40 > 1:41:51about them on the news. But we are misguided if we believe that human
1:41:51 > 1:41:55trafficking and exploitation does not tech base at home. Two thirds of
1:41:55 > 1:42:00victims are women that human trafficking can be committed against
1:42:00 > 1:42:05men, women, boys or girls. Travelling from one place to another
1:42:05 > 1:42:08is not required action for it to be an offence in Scotland and it does
1:42:08 > 1:42:12not matter of the victim has consented or not. Statistics from
1:42:12 > 1:42:18the National Crime Agency have reported that 3805 potential victims
1:42:18 > 1:42:28were submitted to the National framework. As the right honourable
1:42:28 > 1:42:33friend for Gedling stated, that was a 70% increase on the previous year.
1:42:33 > 1:42:40150 victims were from Scotland, 123 from Wales and 33 from Northern
1:42:40 > 1:42:43Ireland. Behind these damning statistics are horrifying stories
1:42:43 > 1:42:47where lives have been destroyed, where women have been abused or
1:42:47 > 1:42:52children have been sexually exploited and workers have been
1:42:52 > 1:42:56forced to work without pay. Despite implementation of the act, the
1:42:56 > 1:43:00National Crime Agency is warning about the scale of modern slavery,
1:43:00 > 1:43:04stating it is far more prevalent than previously estimated, with
1:43:04 > 1:43:08alleged victims as young as 12 are being sold and exploited. However,
1:43:08 > 1:43:12at the moment the police service seems to be unable to tackle this
1:43:12 > 1:43:20issue. If we accept the Government funding issues that police are under
1:43:20 > 1:43:23but police forces are failing to recognise the crimes which make up
1:43:23 > 1:43:33modern slavery. A recent report has been referenced already by Her
1:43:33 > 1:43:35Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary. It states rather
1:43:35 > 1:43:38bluntly that victims of modern slavery has been let down at every
1:43:38 > 1:43:49stage. It States cases are not being quickly enough and some victims are
1:43:49 > 1:43:54not identified. I cannot believe that when a case of suspected
1:43:54 > 1:43:59slavery is suspected, the authority's first response is to
1:43:59 > 1:44:04check the immigration status rather than stopping the abhorrent abuse.
1:44:04 > 1:44:08Cases of slavery and suspected slavery are being closed without
1:44:08 > 1:44:14detectives even speaking to victims. When the director of the
1:44:14 > 1:44:19Inspectorate of Constabulary spoke they said we found investigations
1:44:19 > 1:44:23closed prematurely. Victims were being left unprotected leaving
1:44:23 > 1:44:27perpetrators free to exploit people as commodities. Madam Deputy
1:44:27 > 1:44:30Speaker, this is simply not good enough. We are failing those who
1:44:30 > 1:44:41need our help the most. Women made a vow that Britain would lead the
1:44:41 > 1:44:45world in ending modern slavery. How close are we to achieving this aim
1:44:45 > 1:44:51is Mac we felt catch those who are reported to appropriate authorities.
1:44:51 > 1:44:54We should be concerned at the fermentation of division is failing
1:44:54 > 1:45:01at the moment. Madam Deputy Speaker, as chair of the all-party group on
1:45:01 > 1:45:04the White ribbon campaign, I take pride in the national movement which
1:45:04 > 1:45:08stresses the important role that men can play in ending abuse that too
1:45:08 > 1:45:14many of our young girls face on a daily basis. Gender-based violence,
1:45:14 > 1:45:17including the Porritt act of trafficking affect every society and
1:45:17 > 1:45:20we have the moral and political responsibility to create a society
1:45:20 > 1:45:28where this is consigned to the history books. Unfortunately, Brexit
1:45:28 > 1:45:32may have consequences on the Government's ability to protect
1:45:32 > 1:45:40people from being victims of modern slavery practices. A report said
1:45:40 > 1:45:46Brexit could curtail the efforts to end human trafficking. Many lawyers
1:45:46 > 1:45:52make use of the EU to defend trafficking due to the lack of
1:45:52 > 1:45:55safeguards provided in the act. Brexit will make it harder for the
1:45:55 > 1:46:00UK to work with other EU partners to solve crimes which take place across
1:46:00 > 1:46:05national boundaries. The 2005 convention is a great example of
1:46:05 > 1:46:09European countries working together to protect people being caught in
1:46:09 > 1:46:14trafficking. The campaign group chairman speaks about this
1:46:14 > 1:46:23particular issue involving every trafficking victims protection has
1:46:23 > 1:46:28been implemented as a direct result of the convention. It is said Brexit
1:46:28 > 1:46:32will make it harder to tackle this issue. Therefore, as other members
1:46:32 > 1:46:36have mentioned, the Prime Minister has two guaranteed that that
1:46:36 > 1:46:40security cooperation will continue following our exit from the EU and
1:46:40 > 1:46:52this must be a crucial part of negotiations.
1:46:52 > 1:46:58The Scottish Parliament has unanimously passed the human
1:46:58 > 1:47:03trafficking act to consolidate the existing law and enhance the status
1:47:03 > 1:47:08of and support for the victims. The act also strengthen the penalties
1:47:08 > 1:47:11which can be passed down to a maximum of life in prison. The
1:47:11 > 1:47:18Scottish Government published a strategy to set out how we as a
1:47:18 > 1:47:22country intend to eliminate this crime from our society. It was
1:47:22 > 1:47:26developed in partnership with support groups and those who have
1:47:26 > 1:47:31survived human trafficking offences and it aims to identify and support
1:47:31 > 1:47:34victims, disrupt activity, and address the conditions which foster
1:47:34 > 1:47:38trafficking. By listening and learning from victims, the Scottish
1:47:38 > 1:47:41Government have been able to capture the physical and psychological
1:47:41 > 1:47:47damage caused by trafficking. This new strategy has been welcomed by
1:47:47 > 1:47:52important stakeholders including the Lord Advocate who said, we work on
1:47:52 > 1:47:55publication of the trafficking and exploitation strategy comic human
1:47:55 > 1:48:00trafficking is a serious and complex crime presenting unique challenges,
1:48:00 > 1:48:04the strategy will work hand-in-hand with the tools at our disposal to
1:48:04 > 1:48:11tackle this abhorrent trade. As the member for Nottingham North said,
1:48:11 > 1:48:17the Scottish Government has also announced a period of support for
1:48:17 > 1:48:19victims of trafficking has been doubled to 90 days, Scotland is
1:48:19 > 1:48:24leading the way. This is something the victims of human trafficking
1:48:24 > 1:48:28have been calling for and I would encourage the UK Government to
1:48:28 > 1:48:32follow Scotland's lead. In conclusion, this has been a
1:48:32 > 1:48:38consensual yet challenging debate it is one of the scandals of the modern
1:48:38 > 1:48:46age that we have to debate this at all. Everyone could be affected by
1:48:46 > 1:48:49these sick and abhorrent crimes and we should all be deeply concerned
1:48:49 > 1:48:57this is still happening and further involvementmore, it is growing.
1:48:57 > 1:49:00Today's debate should serve as a wake-up call for us to do more to
1:49:00 > 1:49:09rid society and the world of modern slavery.Thank you. I would like to
1:49:09 > 1:49:14start by congratulating the honourable member for not only the
1:49:14 > 1:49:18debate but that excellent way he takes the lead on this issue. I
1:49:18 > 1:49:23would like to congratulate the members for Bristol East and North
1:49:23 > 1:49:28West, Rochdale and Nottingham North, for their excellent contributions
1:49:28 > 1:49:31today. I would like to pay special tribute to the members from
1:49:31 > 1:49:37Birmingham Yardley and Livingston for bringing the real-life
1:49:37 > 1:49:41consequences of the evil practice of slavery into the Chamber today. The
1:49:41 > 1:49:49modern slavery act was when this house passed it a landmark piece of
1:49:49 > 1:49:53legislation which provided leadership on a global scale.
1:49:53 > 1:49:57However, the lack of subsequent legislation has meant it now risks
1:49:57 > 1:50:01becoming less effective on key issues of the fight against modern
1:50:01 > 1:50:09slavery. Madam Deputy Speaker, I will start by setting the scene.
1:50:09 > 1:50:1645.8 million people are enslaved worldwide. This can be anything from
1:50:16 > 1:50:20forced labour, forced marriage, forced sexual exploitation. In the
1:50:20 > 1:50:29UK, one of the most developed countries in the world, there are an
1:50:29 > 1:50:36underestimated 13,000 in modern-day slavery today. This is far too many.
1:50:36 > 1:50:43As was alluded to by the honourable member, companies who have made
1:50:43 > 1:50:48statements under section 54 of that act are in the minority, the
1:50:48 > 1:50:51majority have not. Those who have made a statement, the quality ranges
1:50:51 > 1:50:56from very good, and I would specifically name Marks & Spencer 's
1:50:56 > 1:51:04and the Co-operative, to virtually worthless. Ministers have done
1:51:04 > 1:51:09nothing to address this, leaving businesses free to carry on and take
1:51:09 > 1:51:15no action, despite what this House legislated for. We must put into
1:51:15 > 1:51:20place a regime where this house can be confident that its wishes as
1:51:20 > 1:51:24expressed and that the commitment to the Modern Slavery Act is fulfilled.
1:51:24 > 1:51:31I ask the Minister come up when will the Government publish a list of all
1:51:31 > 1:51:38companies that should be producing statements regarding the modern
1:51:38 > 1:51:42slavery policies? -- I asked the Minister, when will the Government.
1:51:42 > 1:51:46The police do a fantastic job when they protect and rescue individuals
1:51:46 > 1:51:51from slavery, but the HMIC report published earlier this week was a
1:51:51 > 1:51:57stark reality check for us all. The report tells us that all too often
1:51:57 > 1:52:00the traffickers threats to the victims that they have no means of
1:52:00 > 1:52:04escape, as they will not be believed, has sadly become a
1:52:04 > 1:52:11self-fulfilling prophecy. The report's biggest critique outlined
1:52:11 > 1:52:15the policing surrounding modern slavery and human trafficking is
1:52:15 > 1:52:20reactive rather than proactive. So more must be done to support
1:52:20 > 1:52:24vulnerable people to ensure that they will not be placed in the hands
1:52:24 > 1:52:31of traffickers. It is vital that we learn how traffickers prey on the
1:52:31 > 1:52:38victim 's so that we are able to be more of -- more effective. Does the
1:52:38 > 1:52:42Minister agree that there is a real need to improve training for police,
1:52:42 > 1:52:49to help them better understand how to identify victim 's and how best
1:52:49 > 1:52:55to respond to the issues? Now I would like to move the problematic
1:52:55 > 1:53:01national referral mechanism. Adults are required to consent to their
1:53:01 > 1:53:06referral but without appropriate funding, support and accommodation,
1:53:06 > 1:53:09and a suitable environment when they can get proper advice to allow them
1:53:09 > 1:53:18to make informed decisions, far too many turn to homelessness or even
1:53:18 > 1:53:28worse, return to the traffickers. All too often, the forms are rushed,
1:53:28 > 1:53:32just to make sure the person concerned has access to
1:53:32 > 1:53:38accommodation. This means that at times forms or incomplete or contain
1:53:38 > 1:53:40inaccurate information. This undermines the individual's
1:53:40 > 1:53:47credibility. Legal advice and representation must be offered early
1:53:47 > 1:53:54to all potential victims to support them in understanding their rights,
1:53:54 > 1:53:59giving them access to justice, and a real opportunity to move on with
1:53:59 > 1:54:05their lives. Government support is withdrawn quickly, after a
1:54:05 > 1:54:13conclusive groundwork decision is made. NGOs are often having to pick
1:54:13 > 1:54:17up the pieces because of a lack of resources and awareness among local
1:54:17 > 1:54:21authorities. Safe house accommodation should be more
1:54:21 > 1:54:30flexible, with support diminishing gradually, according to the needs of
1:54:30 > 1:54:34the individual, and not just the rug pulled out from under them. Not only
1:54:34 > 1:54:40is the lack of support detrimental to the individuals, it makes it
1:54:40 > 1:54:45difficult for police and prosecutors to do their job. Police have spoken
1:54:45 > 1:54:51about losing survivors because of lack of support. NGOs have spoken
1:54:51 > 1:54:57about their anxiety caused by an insecure immigration status and how
1:54:57 > 1:55:05that prevents survivors in dealing with traumatic experiences. Victims
1:55:05 > 1:55:10are entitled to only 45 days of support following rescue. This is
1:55:10 > 1:55:17simply not enough. And regardless of how well organised that 45 days
1:55:17 > 1:55:23support is, it is still not enough many of those rescued want to regain
1:55:23 > 1:55:31control of their lives through schemes like the Co-op's project
1:55:31 > 1:55:35Bright Future, giving them a pathway back to paid employment, but they
1:55:35 > 1:55:39cannot because either they have not had the support to get them ready
1:55:39 > 1:55:47for work or they do not have the legal right to work. Victims
1:55:47 > 1:55:50continue to be denied access to vital services they need to recover
1:55:50 > 1:55:57and rebuild their lives. Authorities often prioritise immigration control
1:55:57 > 1:56:03over the safety of victims. This can leave adults and children vulnerable
1:56:03 > 1:56:08to going missing. Traffickers see these individuals as vulnerable and
1:56:08 > 1:56:16the current system is being exploited by the traffickers and
1:56:16 > 1:56:22there evil and despicable practices. I welcome the fact the NRM is being
1:56:22 > 1:56:27reformed but I hope that during the reform process organisations such as
1:56:27 > 1:56:34the human trafficking organisation, Unicef, and others, listen to. And
1:56:34 > 1:56:42that their advice is heeded. Slavery touches our lives every day, whether
1:56:42 > 1:56:47we know it or not. No country is free from this horrific crime and no
1:56:47 > 1:56:56one is safe. Women, men, youngsters, and worse still, children, are
1:56:56 > 1:57:00vulnerable. Exploitation on any level is unjustifiable. But when it
1:57:00 > 1:57:08involves a child, it is chillingly deplorable. Huge concern of mine is
1:57:08 > 1:57:12that within the national referral mechanism, there is no specialist
1:57:12 > 1:57:16support or accommodation for trafficked children. I would urge
1:57:16 > 1:57:21the Minister to address this as a matter of urgency. We passed the
1:57:21 > 1:57:25legislation in two years ago, but it has been left to go stale. Either
1:57:25 > 1:57:30through a lack of enforcement, additional legislation or lack of
1:57:30 > 1:57:38desire. Victims of modern slavery are -- of trafficking are still
1:57:38 > 1:57:44being... There is no clear pathway or continuity of support and a lack
1:57:44 > 1:57:49of constant training and coordination of services to protect
1:57:49 > 1:57:51them can hinder through lack of knowledge and appropriate training
1:57:51 > 1:57:56and funding. We are dealing with the most vulnerable individuals. This is
1:57:56 > 1:58:00a modern scourge with historical roots. Too many people are relying
1:58:00 > 1:58:05on us to protect them from danger. And to offer them support. We must
1:58:05 > 1:58:13make sure the service we offer is robust, reliable and effective.
1:58:13 > 1:58:21Thank you, Madam and at the Chairman. I am very grateful to my
1:58:21 > 1:58:26Honourable friends -- maddened deputy chairman. It is a really
1:58:26 > 1:58:30important debate today. I am delighted to see Anthony Steen in
1:58:30 > 1:58:36the Chamber today. As the Prime Minister said, slavery is the
1:58:36 > 1:58:41gravest human rights abuse of our time and we all share in moral duty
1:58:41 > 1:58:49to stamp it out and that duty really should transcend party politics. In
1:58:49 > 1:58:54the last two years, since the Prime Minister brought in the Modern
1:58:54 > 1:58:58Slavery Act, we have come a long way, but we absolutely recognise we
1:58:58 > 1:59:04are on a journey and there is much more that we want to do. I have very
1:59:04 > 1:59:08little time this afternoon so I am going to concentrate my remarks on
1:59:08 > 1:59:13reforms to the NRM because I want to make some important announcements
1:59:13 > 1:59:17today. But I will get back to colleagues who have raised very
1:59:17 > 1:59:24important points and I will continue to work with the APPG and look
1:59:24 > 1:59:26forward to further meetings to discuss further reforms in more
1:59:26 > 1:59:32detail. Following the meeting of the Prime Minister's modern slavery task
1:59:32 > 1:59:35force last week, a number of improvements to the NRM were
1:59:35 > 1:59:39announced. To improve the decision making progress, a new single expert
1:59:39 > 1:59:43unit will be created in the Home Office to make decisions about
1:59:43 > 1:59:48whether someone is a victim of modern slavery. An independent panel
1:59:48 > 1:59:53of experts will be created to review all negative decisions, adding
1:59:53 > 1:59:57significantly to the scrutiny such cases currently receive. A new
1:59:57 > 2:00:01judicial system to support the NRM process will be developed to make it
2:00:01 > 2:00:05easier for those on the front line to refer for support and enabling
2:00:05 > 2:00:11data to be captured and analysed to better aid prevention and law
2:00:11 > 2:00:17enforcement -- a new digital system. To improve support for adults,
2:00:17 > 2:00:22before, during and after the NRM, there are things we want to do. It
2:00:22 > 2:00:26is paramount the rights of victims and entitlements are protected and
2:00:26 > 2:00:30this is why the Government will invoke section 50 of the Modern
2:00:30 > 2:00:35Slavery Act and set out in regulation the support victims are
2:00:35 > 2:00:40entitled to. We will also launch a consultation in the preparation of
2:00:40 > 2:00:45statutory guidance under section 48 of the Modern Slavery Act on
2:00:45 > 2:00:49identification and support for victims of slavery. This regulatory
2:00:49 > 2:00:54framework will ensure victims know what they are entitled to and those
2:00:54 > 2:00:58working with victims are clear on their roles and responsibilities. It
2:00:58 > 2:01:04is also vital to victims have access to support immediately upon their
2:01:04 > 2:01:07rescue out of situations of exploitation. Government is
2:01:07 > 2:01:12introducing places of safety for the first three days for adult victims,
2:01:12 > 2:01:16when they are identified by public authorities. Before they make a
2:01:16 > 2:01:21decision about whether they want to enter the NRM. During this period,
2:01:21 > 2:01:26potential victims will receive advice and support to ensure they
2:01:26 > 2:01:30understand their options and what entering the NRM will mean for them.
2:01:30 > 2:01:37Next, if potential victim does opt to enter the NRM, we must ensure the
2:01:37 > 2:01:40care they receive is consistent and meeting minimum standards,
2:01:40 > 2:01:43regardless of where in the country they are cared for. That is what the
2:01:43 > 2:01:48Government will adopt the Human Trafficking Foundation's trafficking
2:01:48 > 2:01:53survivor care standards as a minimum standard for the Victim Support.
2:01:53 > 2:02:00Finally, we know moving on from the NRM, it can be challenging, a very
2:02:00 > 2:02:03difficult time for some victims, as they leave the security and
2:02:03 > 2:02:07sanctuary of a safe house and reintegrate into society in the UK
2:02:07 > 2:02:12or return home. We know in many cases the current move on support
2:02:12 > 2:02:16period of 14 days is not enough time. To enable the support to
2:02:16 > 2:02:22happen. So we will extend that period the 45 days, guaranteeing the
2:02:22 > 2:02:29victims will receive a minimum of 90 days in government funded support.
2:02:29 > 2:02:32For those confirmed as not being a victim, we will further extend their
2:02:32 > 2:02:39support by a period of a week to nine days.
2:02:39 > 2:02:44For all of those confirmed victims who have left the NRM, we will also
2:02:44 > 2:02:49run weekly drop-in centres in partnership with the Salvation Army,
2:02:49 > 2:02:54so that victims can continue to receive ongoing support and advice.
2:02:54 > 2:02:58As part of this refocus and enriching the support that we are
2:02:58 > 2:03:04giving to victims, we want to make sure that we looked at the victims
2:03:04 > 2:03:08within the asylum system. As members will know, and has been commented on
2:03:08 > 2:03:15today, a vast number of victims of slavery are identified by UK visas
2:03:15 > 2:03:19and immigration, when they are in the process of looking through their
2:03:19 > 2:03:22applications, because they spot those people may also be victims of
2:03:22 > 2:03:28slavery. It is important that we ensure consistency between people
2:03:28 > 2:03:32with seating can parable government support in respect of their
2:03:32 > 2:03:37day-to-day living expenses while also ensuring the victims of modern
2:03:37 > 2:03:40slavery receive specialist service, regardless of where they are
2:03:40 > 2:03:44accommodated, to enable them to begin to recover and rebuild their
2:03:44 > 2:03:50lives. For those victims of modern slavery, who are in asylum
2:03:50 > 2:03:52accommodation, the specialist services are provided through
2:03:52 > 2:03:58identified outreach support workers, to insure victims receive the same
2:03:58 > 2:04:01expert counselling, medical care, legal aid and other assistance, as
2:04:01 > 2:04:12if they were in NRM safe houses. As we move towards indentation of
2:04:12 > 2:04:17suspicion -- specific improvements that I have today announced, we also
2:04:17 > 2:04:20plan to align the arrangements for covering basic living costs for
2:04:20 > 2:04:27those that are in place for asylum seekers, while continuing to ensure
2:04:27 > 2:04:31that the specific additional needs certain people have are catered for.
2:04:31 > 2:04:36And we really want to build on our work to make sure we are properly
2:04:36 > 2:04:40identifying our victims of modern slavery. We are also going to be
2:04:40 > 2:04:43consulting on strengthening the first responder role, including
2:04:43 > 2:04:48looking at the criteria of who is a responder and making sure they are
2:04:48 > 2:04:52properly trained. Lastly, on our final objective, we want to ensure
2:04:52 > 2:04:57that the support for child victims is improved. And we will continue to
2:04:57 > 2:05:02roll out the independent child trafficking advocates nationally and
2:05:02 > 2:05:07continue to test new and innovative ways of supporting trafficked
2:05:07 > 2:05:13children, including specialist accommodation. This includes the 2.2
2:05:13 > 2:05:16million funding granted as part of the child trafficking protection
2:05:16 > 2:05:19fund, to test what works for specialist support of children. We
2:05:19 > 2:05:28will also be looking at how best we can make the NRM decision-making
2:05:28 > 2:05:32processes child friendly as possible, including how we are
2:05:32 > 2:05:36communicating to children. Madam Deputy Speaker, we believe this
2:05:36 > 2:05:39package of reform offers a significant improvement to the NRM
2:05:39 > 2:05:43and will put victims needs in the centre of this process. We are
2:05:43 > 2:05:49grateful to the work of the Work and Pensions Select Committee, the
2:05:49 > 2:05:52independent anti-slavery commissioner, and a number of
2:05:52 > 2:05:55organisations across the sector and indeed members in this House for
2:05:55 > 2:06:02their work. And I are absolutely determined to make sure that as we
2:06:02 > 2:06:05deliver the changes that I have announced today, that I will work
2:06:05 > 2:06:10with those organisations, with members in this House to ensure that
2:06:10 > 2:06:18we can ensure victims experience improvement as soon as possible. I
2:06:18 > 2:06:23want no one in this House to be under any doubt that this government
2:06:23 > 2:06:28is totally dedicated to preventing this most appalling global trade in
2:06:28 > 2:06:33human misery, ensuring victims of modern slavery receive the support
2:06:33 > 2:06:39they need and offenders are brought to justice. Today, we have heard
2:06:39 > 2:06:43great examples of work around the country, to raise awareness. We have
2:06:43 > 2:06:48seen powerful messages sent out of this place today, that despite all
2:06:48 > 2:06:54our differences on many other issues, we are united as a House of
2:06:54 > 2:06:59Commons and committed to ending modern slavery. We all have a role
2:06:59 > 2:07:04to play in this House. People beyond this chamber all have a role to
2:07:04 > 2:07:10play. It is clear to me that only by working together, we can stamp out
2:07:10 > 2:07:19this most horrendous crime against a shared humanity.Vernon Coaker to
2:07:19 > 2:07:22wind up. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can
2:07:22 > 2:07:26I start by thanking everyone who has contributed to what is a massively
2:07:26 > 2:07:31important debate from right across our country. And I am very grateful
2:07:31 > 2:07:38to everyone for their time in doing that. Can I also welcome many of the
2:07:38 > 2:07:42statements, the comments the Minister has just made, and the
2:07:42 > 2:07:47reforms that she has just announced. I think I have had more impact as a
2:07:47 > 2:07:52co-chair of the all-party group than I had as policing minister about
2:07:52 > 2:07:57some of the changes! But the serious point is the changes she has
2:07:57 > 2:08:01announced to the national referral mechanism, particularly in terms of
2:08:01 > 2:08:06the extension of the time of support that will be available is a very
2:08:06 > 2:08:09important change. I think the other changes she has announced in terms
2:08:09 > 2:08:14of aligning the living costs available to victims, those of the
2:08:14 > 2:08:20people in the asylum system, will also be extremely important. And
2:08:20 > 2:08:27also with the awareness of first responders will be another important
2:08:27 > 2:08:31change. There are other things that we will need to look at and discuss
2:08:31 > 2:08:37which arose in the debate. I just wanted to thank the Minister for
2:08:37 > 2:08:43that response, and to say to her that we as an all-party
2:08:43 > 2:08:46parliamentary group will continue to challenge the Government, not
2:08:46 > 2:08:50because we wish to try and do anything underhand, but it is only
2:08:50 > 2:08:59by challenge that we will be able to address what all of us agree is a
2:08:59 > 2:09:05heinous crime. As we speak, there are still unknown thousands of
2:09:05 > 2:09:11children, women and men in the sexual or labour exploitation. It is
2:09:11 > 2:09:152017. It is not 200 years ago when we had the anti-abolition debate. We
2:09:15 > 2:09:19need to do more. The Minister has made some welcome comments today and
2:09:19 > 2:09:25this House will be united in doing all we can to stamp this out.Thank
2:09:25 > 2:09:31you. The question is that this House has considered the implementation of
2:09:31 > 2:09:34the Modern Slavery Act 2015. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To
2:09:34 > 2:09:45the contrary, "no". I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. We now
2:09:45 > 2:09:49come to the backbench debate on global LGBT rights.
2:09:49 > 2:09:55Nick Herbert to move.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm very
2:09:55 > 2:09:58grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for agreeing to this
2:09:58 > 2:10:02debate which has been proposed by members of the all-party parliament
2:10:02 > 2:10:07regrouped on global LGBT rights which I have the honour to chair.
2:10:07 > 2:10:14Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a tale of two worlds. In one world, as we
2:10:14 > 2:10:24saw in this House, we have seen the near completion of rights for LGBT
2:10:24 > 2:10:29people, full recognition in the law, with some exceptions of course
2:10:29 > 2:10:35throughout the United Kingdom, culminating four years ago with the
2:10:35 > 2:10:38passing of same-sex marriage legislation by overwhelming
2:10:38 > 2:10:45majorities in this House and in the other players. In a 16 year period,
2:10:45 > 2:10:4925 countries around the world have passed same-sex marriage
2:10:49 > 2:10:54legislation. Others have legislation recognising civil partnerships.
2:10:54 > 2:10:59Taiwan became the latest this year. We hope that Australia will follow
2:10:59 > 2:11:06suit soon. If that is the will of the British people. And it is
2:11:06 > 2:11:14noticeable but now only Japan of the G-7 countries does not have
2:11:14 > 2:11:21recognition of same-sex marriage. All the other G-7 countries now do.
2:11:21 > 2:11:25Italy has recognition of civil unions. I will give way to the
2:11:25 > 2:11:28honourable member.I thank the honourable member for giving way and
2:11:28 > 2:11:32I congratulate him on securing this important debate today. He mentioned
2:11:32 > 2:11:36Australia and I would add my support to those campaigning for same-sex
2:11:36 > 2:11:41marriage. Australia is a key member of the Commonwealth and we will be
2:11:41 > 2:11:45holding the meeting here in the UK and I received this morning a card
2:11:45 > 2:11:47from the Commonwealth parliamentarians for but it was a
2:11:47 > 2:11:53bit disappointing to not see on this and mentions specifically of LGBT
2:11:53 > 2:11:56plus rights being discussed there and would he agree that the
2:11:56 > 2:12:01parliament errands for is a great opportunity to raise this issue with
2:12:01 > 2:12:03our Commonwealth partners?I strongly agree with the honourable
2:12:03 > 2:12:07gentleman. I think it is important, not least, because of the health
2:12:07 > 2:12:15issues which were also raised as well as the equality issues on HIV
2:12:15 > 2:12:22aids. There is another world as well. A world in which 75 countries
2:12:22 > 2:12:26criminalised same-sex activity between consenting adults. That
2:12:26 > 2:12:31covers 2.9 billion people, 40% of the world's population live in these
2:12:31 > 2:12:37jurisdictions. Over 400 million people, therefore, live under laws
2:12:37 > 2:12:40which punish same-sex activity and actually punish it with the death
2:12:40 > 2:12:47penalty. The particular reason why I will all-party group was so keen to
2:12:47 > 2:12:51secure this debate now, was because of what happened last month, during
2:12:51 > 2:12:58the conference recess in a number of countries, which give rise to grave
2:12:58 > 2:13:03cause for concern about the abuse of LGBT people. In Azerbaijan, during
2:13:03 > 2:13:09the last two weeks of September, organised police raids lead to mass
2:13:09 > 2:13:15arrests of received gay and bisexual men and trans women in the capital
2:13:15 > 2:13:21Baku. The authorities claimed this was a crackdown on prostitution but
2:13:21 > 2:13:26activists claimed LGBT people were specifically targeted. While in
2:13:26 > 2:13:31detention, victims report being subject to beatings, electric shock
2:13:31 > 2:13:34torture, forced medical examinations and other degrading and ill
2:13:34 > 2:13:38treatment. The majority of detainees were charged with disobeying police
2:13:38 > 2:13:42orders which was an administrative offence sentenced to between five
2:13:42 > 2:13:47and 20 days in custody, and the country's own Ministry of external
2:13:47 > 2:13:51affairs stated 83 people were detained in principle. The
2:13:51 > 2:13:55Ambassador of the Republic of Azerbaijan noted that we were
2:13:55 > 2:13:59calling this debate and wrote to me this week, and I think it is
2:13:59 > 2:14:04important that I quote what he says. He says: I can reassure you that
2:14:04 > 2:14:08this was not a concerted effort to crack down on the LGBT community,
2:14:08 > 2:14:13but rather a police action to stop solicitation of sexual services in
2:14:13 > 2:14:17downtown Baku, following complaints from local residents. It may be that
2:14:17 > 2:14:21some within the local police force acted overzealously and exceeded
2:14:21 > 2:14:24them and eight. As soon as the appropriate authorities were made
2:14:24 > 2:14:27aware, the police operation was stopped and all those detained were
2:14:27 > 2:14:34released. I would like to reiterate that the Azerbaijani constitutes the
2:14:34 > 2:14:38Griquas dish and guarantees all forms of expression and sexual
2:14:38 > 2:14:44activity has been decriminalised since September 2000.
2:14:44 > 2:14:48But does not deal properly with the situation because local groups have
2:14:48 > 2:14:52reported since the initial raids, the authorities continue to
2:14:52 > 2:14:56intimidate and harass people they perceive to be LGBT, and I think it
2:14:56 > 2:15:00is very important that this House, and I hope the Government, will send
2:15:00 > 2:15:06a very clear message to the Azerbaijani government that this
2:15:06 > 2:15:10kind of oppression is unacceptable in the ayes of the global community.
2:15:10 > 2:15:13This House heard an urgent question early on this year about the
2:15:13 > 2:15:20terrible situation in Chechnya about arbitrary arrests, detention and
2:15:20 > 2:15:23torture of LGBT people that continues to take place as part of a
2:15:23 > 2:15:28wider crackdown on human rights, despite the protests which have been
2:15:28 > 2:15:33made to the Russian authorities. And then in Egypt, over 50 people have
2:15:33 > 2:15:40been arrested in response to just this, in response to the flying
2:15:40 > 2:15:44rainbow flags at a pop concert in Cairo. Bataclan loan resulted in
2:15:44 > 2:15:52arrests. The victims -- that act alone resulted in arrests and
2:15:52 > 2:15:57victims are charge would debauchery, indecent and belonging to a banned
2:15:57 > 2:16:02group. Many have been sentenced. Victims report being subject to
2:16:02 > 2:16:06beatings, sexual harassment and forced banal examinations while in
2:16:06 > 2:16:14detention. While same-sex conduct is not expressively forbidding in
2:16:14 > 2:16:16Egypt, the parliament is considering, sexuality with a
2:16:16 > 2:16:20proposed punishment of up to 15 years in prison. What is Her
2:16:20 > 2:16:24Majesty's government saying to the Egyptian authorities, to the
2:16:24 > 2:16:28Government about this terrible abuse of gay people, for committing what
2:16:28 > 2:16:37we in this country would not regard as any crime at all but simply the
2:16:37 > 2:16:40freedom of expression of flying a flag? I was very struck by a message
2:16:40 > 2:16:44that I was sent by a young gay man living in Egypt, who attended that
2:16:44 > 2:16:51concept and he said: I can hear those consistent steps coming
2:16:51 > 2:16:57closer. Fear, is it happening? Fear, are they coming for me? This has
2:16:57 > 2:17:00been the most common stream of thought in the past week in Cairo.
2:17:00 > 2:17:04The thought of being arrested would not leave my mind, ever since the
2:17:04 > 2:17:10most recent escalation of the state on its crackdown on LGBT pill the
2:17:10 > 2:17:14macro people in Egypt. Fear that has accompanied me for a lifetime as a
2:17:14 > 2:17:16gay man in Egypt. It is heartbreaking to wake up every day
2:17:16 > 2:17:27for a new chapter of fighting for your rights to exist, just to be.
2:17:28 > 2:17:34These are not isolated cases. State action, in turn, licenses
2:17:34 > 2:17:39discrimination at best, violence at worst, and a climate of fear under
2:17:39 > 2:17:45which LGBT people have to live. In June 2013, the Russian duma
2:17:45 > 2:17:50unanimously adopted, and President Putin signed, a nationwide law
2:17:50 > 2:17:54banning distribution of propaganda for nontraditional sexual relations,
2:17:54 > 2:17:59often the excuse for measures which discriminate against LGBT people.
2:17:59 > 2:18:04Since the introduction of that law, 14 countries have considered similar
2:18:04 > 2:18:08legislation in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and Africa. Nigeria,
2:18:08 > 2:18:15same-sex marriage prohibitions act, criminalises the formation, and
2:18:15 > 2:18:19support of gay clubs, societies and organisations, with sentences of up
2:18:19 > 2:18:24to ten years in prison. Uganda's parliament passed a similar
2:18:24 > 2:18:28anti-homosexuality act which would have credited the promotion of
2:18:28 > 2:18:31homosexuality by individuals and organisations, incurring penalties
2:18:31 > 2:18:38of up to seven years in prison. That has been revoked, but in this year,
2:18:38 > 2:18:41Uganda's pride had to be cancelled as a consequence of the actions of
2:18:41 > 2:18:46the state and the police, who were determined that that expression
2:18:46 > 2:18:53should not take place. Mr Deputy Speaker, it is sometimes suggested
2:18:53 > 2:18:59that the UK may be guilty of some kind of neocolonialism, that we are
2:18:59 > 2:19:05now seeking to impose our views on countries in the same way that we
2:19:05 > 2:19:11did in the past. And it is true that 40 of the 53 member states in the
2:19:11 > 2:19:15Commonwealth, lies to same-sex activity using legislation inherited
2:19:15 > 2:19:19from the British Empire. But I would argue that our history gives us a
2:19:19 > 2:19:26special responsibility to atone for the measures that we introduced, and
2:19:26 > 2:19:30to act. That is a view shared by the Prime Minister, who I am delighted
2:19:30 > 2:19:38to say said last week that on the world stage the government was
2:19:38 > 2:19:41standing up for LGBT rights and challenging at the highest level
2:19:41 > 2:19:46those governments which allow or inflict discrimination or abuse. The
2:19:46 > 2:19:50anti-LGBT laws which remain in some Commonwealth countries are a legacy
2:19:50 > 2:19:53of Britain's colonial past, so the UK Government has a special
2:19:53 > 2:19:58responsibility to help change hearts and minds. We will ensure these
2:19:58 > 2:20:01important issues are discussed at the Commonwealth Heads of Government
2:20:01 > 2:20:05Meeting, which the UK Government is hosting next April. That is
2:20:05 > 2:20:12immensely welcome and only this week the Commonwealth equality network of
2:20:12 > 2:20:15activists and NGOs is meeting in Malta to discuss how to reverse the
2:20:15 > 2:20:17oppression of gay people into many Commonwealth countries, and that
2:20:17 > 2:20:20stand that the Prime Minister has taken and this government will take
2:20:20 > 2:20:24up the CHOGM meeting next year is very important. After all, what many
2:20:24 > 2:20:27of these countries are doing is in breach of the Commonwealth charter
2:20:27 > 2:20:33itself. Indeed, outside the Commonwealth, every country has
2:20:33 > 2:20:37signed up to the United Nations declaration of human rights, rights
2:20:37 > 2:20:40which guarantee liberty, freedom of expression, freedom from torture and
2:20:40 > 2:20:44oppression. That is why it is so important that we continue to
2:20:44 > 2:20:50support the United Nations' institutions, the campaign is that
2:20:50 > 2:20:54they run on, for instance, they're free and equal campaign, and other
2:20:54 > 2:20:57multinational initiatives, such as the equal rights coalition, which
2:20:57 > 2:21:01was launched last year with the UK Government's support and now
2:21:01 > 2:21:06incorporates 29 governments who cooperate and share information.
2:21:06 > 2:21:08That organisation needs begin tingling active support of the UK
2:21:08 > 2:21:14Government. I would argue that the UK Government, which has done a good
2:21:14 > 2:21:19deal in this area, can do much more. I welcome the Prime Minister's
2:21:19 > 2:21:25commitment to a high-level challenge that she set out. The all-party
2:21:25 > 2:21:28produced a report last year and made a number of specific recommendations
2:21:28 > 2:21:34for what the government could do. First, to adopt a cross departmental
2:21:34 > 2:21:39strategy, to ensure that all parts of the government are co-ordinated
2:21:39 > 2:21:45and are taking the necessary steps to take a stance and promote the
2:21:45 > 2:21:49values we think are important in this country. There are multiple
2:21:49 > 2:21:54actors. There is the involvement of the apartment for foreign and
2:21:54 > 2:21:57international development, the Foreign Office, and the Home Office,
2:21:57 > 2:22:02and it is important they are co-ordinated and I welcome the
2:22:02 > 2:22:07Minister's presence here, as a minister in a domestic UK department
2:22:07 > 2:22:10but nevertheless recognising his responsibility, crosscutting, for
2:22:10 > 2:22:15these issues. That coordination is important. Secondly, perhaps one of
2:22:15 > 2:22:19the most important thing is, the funding that can be provided for
2:22:19 > 2:22:23LGBT activist groups on the ground. These are vulnerable, fragile
2:22:23 > 2:22:27groups, run by very brave activists in these countries, in sub-Saharan
2:22:27 > 2:22:31Africa, in Russia and in the countries which we have and will be
2:22:31 > 2:22:36discussing. And they need support. The support they can be given by,
2:22:36 > 2:22:40yes, of course, private individuals and foundations but also by the
2:22:40 > 2:22:45British government, is immensely important. Those funding streams
2:22:45 > 2:22:48which can be directed through British High Commission sent
2:22:48 > 2:22:54embassies is very important those are maintained. Thirdly, we should
2:22:54 > 2:23:00ensure that safe routes are given to people fleeing persecution,
2:23:00 > 2:23:04particularly if they are applying for asylum in countries like Canada
2:23:04 > 2:23:17and other European countries.I thank the honourable gentleman
2:23:17 > 2:23:21forgiving way. Does he agree that on funding it is great to see so many
2:23:21 > 2:23:27corporate organisations supporting the big celebrations across the UK
2:23:27 > 2:23:29in globally but they need to think about how they can direct funding
2:23:29 > 2:23:35and support to local groups across the UK and across the world?I thank
2:23:35 > 2:23:39the honourable lady for that point which she has made very effectively.
2:23:39 > 2:23:42I will draw my remarks to a conclusion because others wish to
2:23:42 > 2:23:47get in. My central point is that these are terrible abuses of LGBT
2:23:47 > 2:23:51people that we see globally but change can be affected and we should
2:23:51 > 2:23:56not be despondent about that. In Uganda, partly because of the
2:23:56 > 2:24:00influence of the World Bank that was considering granting an important
2:24:00 > 2:24:04loan to Uganda, the President was prevailed upon not to implement the
2:24:04 > 2:24:06law that the parliament had passed that would have oppressed gay
2:24:06 > 2:24:13people. In Belize, legal challenge has resulted in protection for LGBT
2:24:13 > 2:24:18people. In Mozambique, legislation has affected the same thing. We can
2:24:18 > 2:24:22effect change, and the United Kingdom, in conclusion, has an
2:24:22 > 2:24:26important role in this respect. We are the fifth largest economy in the
2:24:26 > 2:24:31world. We have a global reach, very important historic ties across the
2:24:31 > 2:24:35world, not least through the Commonwealth. We have one of the
2:24:35 > 2:24:39largest aid budgets in the world, and the massive opportunity to
2:24:39 > 2:24:46exercise soft power and influence. In Cairo, the crackdown on gay
2:24:46 > 2:24:51people was, began when they flew the rainbow flag. And the flying of the
2:24:51 > 2:24:56rainbow flag over our own Parliament, over our own government
2:24:56 > 2:24:59buildings, sends an important signal. An attachment to freedom, a
2:24:59 > 2:25:03belief in liberty and equality. We should not underestimate that taking
2:25:03 > 2:25:09these stances is not trite, not trivial. It matters. It matters in
2:25:09 > 2:25:12the eyes of the communities and activists looking for our support in
2:25:12 > 2:25:16other countries. People will be watching this debate and they want
2:25:16 > 2:25:20to know that this house supports these communities and that the
2:25:20 > 2:25:24British government supports these communities. Thousands of activists,
2:25:24 > 2:25:30millions of people. Let freedom ring for them.The question is this house
2:25:30 > 2:25:38has considered global LGBT rights. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want
2:25:38 > 2:25:42to start by paying tribute to the honourable member for Aaron Doran
2:25:42 > 2:25:47and the South downs for very powerful speech. He has been a tall
2:25:47 > 2:25:52order force in terms of championing this issue and I hope that with
2:25:52 > 2:25:55genuine cross-party co-operation on this there is absolutely no reason
2:25:55 > 2:25:59why we shouldn't. I also want to pay tribute to the countries and
2:25:59 > 2:26:03activists in the countries that have made progress on these issues, but
2:26:03 > 2:26:07also to the very brave activists that in some cases even lost their
2:26:07 > 2:26:14lives because of standing up for LGBT rights. I think of David Kato
2:26:14 > 2:26:19in Uganda, who was brutally murdered in 2011. And we know from the
2:26:19 > 2:26:23reaction of the Ugandan government, there were newspaper headlines more
2:26:23 > 2:26:29or less calling for people to Lynch and hunt down homosexual men in the
2:26:29 > 2:26:34streets. There was very much a climate of fear, so it was
2:26:34 > 2:26:41incredibly brave of him and his successor to speak up. I know when I
2:26:41 > 2:26:45met his successor, he said the handful of openly gay people in
2:26:45 > 2:26:49Uganda could almost be counted on the fingers of two hands, because so
2:26:49 > 2:26:53few people were willing to come forward. We then had the proposals
2:26:53 > 2:26:57to introduce the death penalty for people. Quite often this debate is
2:26:57 > 2:27:01couched in terms of, we don't mind what you do in the privacy of your
2:27:01 > 2:27:04homes, but it is when you promote it and start talking about these issues
2:27:04 > 2:27:09in front of children. I think that is a pernicious angle to take
2:27:09 > 2:27:13because it does, in effect, prevent people leading their lives freely
2:27:13 > 2:27:22and openly and free from fear of persecution. Another activist in
2:27:22 > 2:27:27Cameroon was murdered, again in 2013. He spoke, just before he was
2:27:27 > 2:27:31murdered, of a climate of hatred and bigotry in his country which extends
2:27:31 > 2:27:34to high levels in government and reassures homophobes they can get
2:27:34 > 2:27:38away with these crimes. That was two weeks before he was tortured and
2:27:38 > 2:27:42murdered. The honourable member has a ready spoken eloquently about some
2:27:42 > 2:27:49of the issues that have been, the persecution that had been suffered
2:27:49 > 2:27:54by activists in countries such as Egypt and Uganda, and the issue
2:27:54 > 2:27:58about the suppression of Pride last year. I want to talk about what
2:27:58 > 2:28:02leveraged we have, and certainly our membership of the Commonwealth
2:28:02 > 2:28:08should give us enormous influence. I spoke at the Commonwealth
2:28:08 > 2:28:10Parliamentary Association conference when I was shadow minister of human
2:28:10 > 2:28:13rights in the Foreign Office a few years ago, and there is this tricky
2:28:13 > 2:28:18issue where it did feel slightly like people from the white
2:28:18 > 2:28:22countries, to put it crudely, were preaching to the people from the
2:28:22 > 2:28:27African countries. Somebody actually said to me, you came over to our
2:28:27 > 2:28:31country and told us homosexuality was wrong, you sent the
2:28:31 > 2:28:34missionaries, you preached the Bible, you showed us where it said
2:28:34 > 2:28:39these customs and practices, which were tolerated in Uganda back then,
2:28:39 > 2:28:42and in other countries, you said it was wrong, and now you are coming
2:28:42 > 2:28:46back to us and telling us, hang on, you have now got to start accepting
2:28:46 > 2:28:52our norms. The concern that you are seen as a colonial force in doing
2:28:52 > 2:28:56that is very real. The issue how this fits into the debate about
2:28:56 > 2:28:59freedom of religion and belief, something we have had in this house
2:28:59 > 2:29:02before, yes, people should be free to express religious views and
2:29:02 > 2:29:08beliefs, but that should not come, they should not be able as a result
2:29:08 > 2:29:15of expressing those views to promote persecution of homosexuality, or
2:29:15 > 2:29:20bigotry towards people from the LGBT community. Too often it is used to
2:29:20 > 2:29:23excuse that. The other leveraged we have is through our trading
2:29:23 > 2:29:29relations with other countries. In autumn 2013, the Coalition
2:29:29 > 2:29:32Government launched with a great fanfare its business and human
2:29:32 > 2:29:39rights action plan. The then Foreign Secretary spoke of how he wanted to
2:29:39 > 2:29:43mesh the two, the business and human rights should not be separate, it
2:29:43 > 2:29:48should be integral. It was almost an ethical foreign policy. Since then
2:29:48 > 2:29:51it has been disappointing that the action plan appears to have been
2:29:51 > 2:29:56shelved. It is not spoken about. The permanent Secretary to the Foreign
2:29:56 > 2:30:01Office gave evidence to the select committee two years ago, the foreign
2:30:01 > 2:30:04affairs select committee, and admitted human rights were no long a
2:30:04 > 2:30:07priority for his department, saying that far more resources were going
2:30:07 > 2:30:12into pursuing trade deals. They dropped specific branches of human
2:30:12 > 2:30:17rights activity in favour of some very vague priorities. Human rights
2:30:17 > 2:30:20groups described his comments as being as astonishing as they were
2:30:20 > 2:30:26alarming. This was before Brexit. Now that we are entering a world in
2:30:26 > 2:30:29which we will be pursuing more vigorously trade deals and new
2:30:29 > 2:30:33business relationships with overseas countries, I think human rights
2:30:33 > 2:30:37absolutely need to be back at the heart of those conversations. I have
2:30:37 > 2:30:41asked so many questions of ministers about what they say when they go to
2:30:41 > 2:30:44countries like Saudi Arabia about human rights and I get vague answers
2:30:44 > 2:30:48back saying, nothing was off the table, a range of issues were
2:30:48 > 2:30:52discussed. Clearly, if they were discussed it was left to a minor
2:30:52 > 2:30:55official to mention it in passing at a meeting so they could say they had
2:30:55 > 2:30:59ticked the box. It is disappointing that the business and human rights
2:30:59 > 2:31:03action plan appears to have been sidelined and is not on the
2:31:03 > 2:31:06international trade Secretary's radar at all. That is one of the
2:31:06 > 2:31:10things we need to push, that when we go to countries with dreadful human
2:31:10 > 2:31:15rights records and dreadful records on LGBT issues in particular, we
2:31:15 > 2:31:18need to be having that conversation and put it on the table and say it
2:31:18 > 2:31:23is not acceptable. Even to the extent that people from British
2:31:23 > 2:31:26companies, LGBT employees, going to work in these countries with
2:31:26 > 2:31:30dreadful human rights records are not safe either. So I hope this is
2:31:30 > 2:31:36an issue we can take up as a group.
2:31:36 > 2:31:41It is a great honour to follow the honourable lady and I'd like to
2:31:41 > 2:31:44congratulate my honourable friend for moving this motion. We have come
2:31:44 > 2:31:48a long way over the years in this country and indeed in this
2:31:48 > 2:31:56Parliament and indeed myself. I remember growing up in Swansea and
2:31:56 > 2:31:59wondering whether it was braver of me to come out as a conservative or
2:31:59 > 2:32:06gay. Anyway, I have tried both and it doesn't seem to have done me any
2:32:06 > 2:32:11harm. If one looks at the journey we have made in this Parliament, we
2:32:11 > 2:32:15have more openly gay Members of Parliament here than in any other
2:32:15 > 2:32:19Parliament in the world, I think that's a fantastic thing for which
2:32:19 > 2:32:25we ought to be proud and I congratulate the highest percentage
2:32:25 > 2:32:37of openly gay MPs amongst us. I was once asked, when will you become
2:32:37 > 2:32:41Speaker of the House of Commons? And I said, well... And he said, you
2:32:41 > 2:32:46would be the first gay Speaker. And I said, I did think so, Prime
2:32:46 > 2:32:54Minister. I suspect there have been a few others since. And it just...
2:32:54 > 2:32:57Well, we know there was at least one Deputy Speaker who was gay because
2:32:57 > 2:33:02it was in 2010 when I was in the Speaker's Department when we had a
2:33:02 > 2:33:07fantastic reception when I did come out as gay and I said to him, the
2:33:07 > 2:33:13only thing more gay than me and the apartments. And I think for each and
2:33:13 > 2:33:19every one of us that have come out as gay and those who are not gay but
2:33:19 > 2:33:25speak up for LGBT rights, we know there are people living in
2:33:25 > 2:33:30persecution and fear about being gay and it's not about the fulfilment of
2:33:30 > 2:33:34their lives in some cases, it is that they are fearful for their
2:33:34 > 2:33:38lives. And that is absolutely appalling. We have heard the number
2:33:38 > 2:33:43of countries where it is actually a capital offence for being gay and
2:33:43 > 2:33:46we'll read in our newspapers, sadly, and too many occasions about people
2:33:46 > 2:33:51getting pushed off the top of tall buildings simply because they are
2:33:51 > 2:33:57gay. I remember a debate talking about two young people I had read
2:33:57 > 2:34:03about in one Sunday magazine who were in Iran, they were about 16 and
2:34:03 > 2:34:1117, teenagers, and they were strung up for being gay and I remember at a
2:34:11 > 2:34:15conference confronting the Iranian delegation and I said, why is it
2:34:15 > 2:34:19that young gay people are being executed in Iran and they said,
2:34:19 > 2:34:23well, if it is done in private, then of course nobody knows but if it is
2:34:23 > 2:34:27public, they will be tortured. They actually used the watch tortured. I
2:34:27 > 2:34:31was so angry and I said, yes, you tortured them first and then you
2:34:31 > 2:34:39hang them. For that, I just find it totally unforgivable. I remember, of
2:34:39 > 2:34:47course, my party has not always been liberal towards LGBT rights. They
2:34:47 > 2:34:52always had that question they asked at selection meetings, is there
2:34:52 > 2:34:55anything in your cupboard? I remember Alan Clark was asked that
2:34:55 > 2:34:59question and he said I could not get anything more in my cupboard. I
2:34:59 > 2:35:02thought that was rather brave of him and he still got selected, of
2:35:02 > 2:35:06course. But the question is not asked any more. Not only have the
2:35:06 > 2:35:08Conservative Party, long way on these issues, I think it's almost
2:35:08 > 2:35:16compulsory to be gay to get selected. Not quite. My right
2:35:16 > 2:35:18honourable friend mentioned Taiwan. I am chairman of the all-party
2:35:18 > 2:35:24Taiwan group and I was therefore it a couple of months ago as a guest
2:35:24 > 2:35:28and I am proud of what we have done in Taiwan and we know Australia
2:35:28 > 2:35:31going through the same issues now and I believe the Chief Executive
2:35:31 > 2:35:35officer of Qantas has just been made the most influential LGBT person in
2:35:35 > 2:35:43the world. For speaking up rather briefly because there are a lot of
2:35:43 > 2:35:49CEOs who sadly are afraid, for whatever reason, to come out as gay.
2:35:49 > 2:35:52And we know it is the same in the world of sport and in football
2:35:52 > 2:35:58particularly. And I just wish that more sports men who are gay, like
2:35:58 > 2:36:02Tom Daley, would be as brave as him to come out. Because that would send
2:36:02 > 2:36:06a massive signal as well. A lot of these Commonwealth countries, they
2:36:06 > 2:36:09are obsessed with football and if only more of them would be prepared
2:36:09 > 2:36:14to do that, it would send absolutely the right signals. I am also proud
2:36:14 > 2:36:20of the fact that within the world of politics, we have had the former
2:36:20 > 2:36:24Prime Ministers of countries in Iceland, Belgium, Luxembourg,
2:36:24 > 2:36:29currently Ireland and Serbia, who have all been gay. And so, I think
2:36:29 > 2:36:33that again send the right signals but I have to tell the House, I have
2:36:33 > 2:36:37just come back from Russia where we decided in the human rights
2:36:37 > 2:36:41subcommittee of a conference to raise at the Geneva conference next
2:36:41 > 2:36:49year the issue of what Parliaments can do to stop dissemination on
2:36:49 > 2:36:54LGBT+ issues. The chairperson was from Botswana and we were debating
2:36:54 > 2:37:01this issue and it was wonderful. A number of countries spoke up on that
2:37:01 > 2:37:05half of it, including MPs from Cuba, Malaysia, to say, yeah, let's talk
2:37:05 > 2:37:10about this, it is an important issue. And it got past. But right at
2:37:10 > 2:37:15the last moment, it was defeated in the full plenary, when most people
2:37:15 > 2:37:20had then started to go home and countries like Iran, Uganda and
2:37:20 > 2:37:25Morocco were banging the table saying, this cannot be discussed or
2:37:25 > 2:37:29deleted. That is an appalling thing, that politicians from these
2:37:29 > 2:37:32countries and a number of others were banging the table and saying,
2:37:32 > 2:37:38they were not even prepared to discuss discrimination of LGBT+
2:37:38 > 2:37:42issues in what they're Parliaments can do. That just shows you how far
2:37:42 > 2:37:49we have got to go. And what was that incident in the UAE and the other
2:37:49 > 2:37:51ended up being prosecuted for bumping into somebody and touching
2:37:51 > 2:38:02them on the hip? Come on! This is the 21st century! Fortunately, he is
2:38:02 > 2:38:06home now but I cannot imagine there are too many people wanting to go
2:38:06 > 2:38:15there in future. I will give way.It is not just LGBT people that might
2:38:15 > 2:38:19not want to go there but others may think, this is not acceptable, like
2:38:19 > 2:38:26myself.Extremely grateful to my honourable friend for saying that.
2:38:26 > 2:38:31It sends a strong signal to the United Arab Emirates and perhaps
2:38:31 > 2:38:36other countries equally thinking of that. I want to finish on the WHO
2:38:36 > 2:38:39and that most appalling decision of there's the other day, what did they
2:38:39 > 2:38:43think they were doing, trying to make Robert Mugabe a Goodwill
2:38:43 > 2:38:46Ambassador? It is not just on the health issues but if one looks at
2:38:46 > 2:38:51the way he has treated LGBT+ issues in his own country, with the stigma
2:38:51 > 2:38:55of being gay meaning that many people are afraid to even get tested
2:38:55 > 2:38:58and are condemned to death because they are not given the treatment
2:38:58 > 2:39:04they need. I am delighted they change their decision at the last,
2:39:04 > 2:39:07well, after three days. Clearly, they listened to the international
2:39:07 > 2:39:11community but it did send the wrong signals and I do hope they will
2:39:11 > 2:39:14think again and as far as the pride flag is concerned, when I asked for
2:39:14 > 2:39:19the flag to be flown from every High Commission at Embassy, I was told we
2:39:19 > 2:39:23couldn't do it because in many cases we only have one flagpole and there
2:39:23 > 2:39:28is not enough room for two. We do it in Whitehall, we double flag their
2:39:28 > 2:39:32figurehead the minister, in summing up, we'll be able to tell us that in
2:39:32 > 2:39:36future, or Gay Pride week, the gay pride flag will fly from every
2:39:36 > 2:39:42flagpole in the High Commissions at embassies throughout the world.
2:39:42 > 2:39:45Thank you, a pleasure to follow my fellow member of the International
2:39:45 > 2:39:50development committee. Can I welcome today's debate and thank the package
2:39:50 > 2:39:54Business Committee for current account? I congratulate the
2:39:54 > 2:39:58honourable gentleman from Aaron Doran South Downs and in particular
2:39:58 > 2:40:02the key range of NGOs, both based in the UK and abroad and global ones
2:40:02 > 2:40:08like Amnesty International, for their assistance? Next year marks
2:40:08 > 2:40:12the anniversary, 30th anniversary of Section 28, just three decades ago,
2:40:12 > 2:40:16this Parliament, this Chamber, carried discriminatory legislation
2:40:16 > 2:40:22and I think we can learn something from the past 30 years because after
2:40:22 > 2:40:27Section 28 was passed, you saw a renewal of LGBT organisations in
2:40:27 > 2:40:30this country, the formation of the Stonewall group, lesbian and gay
2:40:30 > 2:40:34organisations in our trade union movement and Lesbian and Gay
2:40:34 > 2:40:38campaigns within political parties and the Labour campaign for lesbian
2:40:38 > 2:40:42and gay rights, now known as LGBT labour, plays a critical role in
2:40:42 > 2:40:46what went on to be Labour's 1997 manifesto. And there are lessons
2:40:46 > 2:40:53from that experience here in the UK. I believe, for this debate today.
2:40:53 > 2:40:57Because what happened here was that this place listened to LGBT
2:40:57 > 2:41:03communities themselves. And that, I believe, needs to be our starting
2:41:03 > 2:41:08point when looking at global LGBT rights. In the briefing the
2:41:08 > 2:41:11honourable gentleman arranged earlier, somebody said, change has
2:41:11 > 2:41:15to come from below. And in a world where there are still 13 countries
2:41:15 > 2:41:19where being gay is punishable by death, 75 countries where same-sex
2:41:19 > 2:41:27contact remains a criminal offence, the challenges are enormous. Can I
2:41:27 > 2:41:29welcome the Department for International Development's policy
2:41:29 > 2:41:33paper on LGBT rights published last year? In particular, the focus in
2:41:33 > 2:41:39the paper, firstly on the realisation of human rights
2:41:39 > 2:41:41underpins sustainable development and secondly, importantly, we need
2:41:41 > 2:41:47to identify engage with the southern voices that are beginning to emerge
2:41:47 > 2:41:52on LGBT issues. Two years ago, the world agreed the sustainable
2:41:52 > 2:42:00development goals and the team is, leave no one behind, inclusion must
2:42:00 > 2:42:03include non-discrimination. We need the ability to reach all
2:42:03 > 2:42:09communities, including LGBT communities.I thank my honourable
2:42:09 > 2:42:12friend for giving way and he's making a powerful Speech. Will he
2:42:12 > 2:42:17agree with me that it is crucial when we look at the work, we
2:42:17 > 2:42:27specifically looked at the LGBT+ community in developing countries,
2:42:27 > 2:42:30particularly when American pulling out of bilateral and multilateral
2:42:30 > 2:42:38eight?That is an important point speaks to a broader issue, which is
2:42:38 > 2:42:42about the availability of relatively small amounts of funding for local
2:42:42 > 2:42:47organisations working on HIV and aids or a quality issues on the
2:42:47 > 2:42:52ground. This is an international issue raised across the full breadth
2:42:52 > 2:43:05of their work. I think it has resonance for today's debate. Can I
2:43:05 > 2:43:09praise the staff in regard of the work they do on this as well? This
2:43:09 > 2:43:15is a tricky debate. Some people will say, how come we are giving aid to
2:43:15 > 2:43:19these countries, whose Government and then acting so appallingly to
2:43:19 > 2:43:23their LGBT communities? Should we not be cutting a? And I want to
2:43:23 > 2:43:27really urge caution against such an approach. Cutting support for
2:43:27 > 2:43:31malaria programmes in the poorest countries of Africa does not help
2:43:31 > 2:43:37LGBT rights. Cutting back support for school programmes are some of
2:43:37 > 2:43:40the poorest countries of Africa does not help LGBT rights. What we need
2:43:40 > 2:43:48to do is engage with civil society, both here and on the ground in the
2:43:48 > 2:43:52countries concerned. That sort of engagement would be fruitful. Can I
2:43:52 > 2:43:59welcome the appointment by the UN of an independent expert on sexual
2:43:59 > 2:44:04orientation and identity? He has an important role to play. His position
2:44:04 > 2:44:10was challenged and there was a vote last year, 84-77, to allow him to
2:44:10 > 2:44:14continue, 77 countries did not want him to Taiwan to congratulate our
2:44:14 > 2:44:18Government for the leading role the UK played in defending his
2:44:18 > 2:44:22appointments, but also the Government of South Africa and
2:44:22 > 2:44:24several Caribbean countries that stood out against the pressure to
2:44:24 > 2:44:29try to get rid of this particular position? Can I contribute to the
2:44:29 > 2:44:32role of the trade unions here and internationally in the struggle for
2:44:32 > 2:44:42LGBT rights? LGBT rights workers' rights and next week, Public
2:44:42 > 2:44:44services International education International will host their fourth
2:44:44 > 2:44:48LGBT Forum in Geneva. The crucial issues of rights in the workplace,
2:44:48 > 2:44:51violence against people in the workplace but also trade unions in
2:44:51 > 2:44:56the role more broadly in society in making the case for equality and
2:44:56 > 2:45:00against discrimination. The honourable gentleman spoke about
2:45:00 > 2:45:03Chechnya and I think many of us are deeply concerned about elements
2:45:03 > 2:45:06there in recent months. Last week, human rights watch highlighted the
2:45:06 > 2:45:13case of one individual who was confined for 12 days in a dark
2:45:13 > 2:45:18basement by the regime. The example of Uganda has already been
2:45:18 > 2:45:23described. A recent daily newspaper front page and you said, exposed,
2:45:23 > 2:45:37Uganda's top promos with photographs of allegedly gay men. -- top Homos.
2:45:37 > 2:45:40Tragically, this year they were not allowed to let us think of those
2:45:40 > 2:45:46sisters and brothers in Uganda. I want to say something today about
2:45:46 > 2:45:50Tanzania because a capital of concerns that has been raised by
2:45:50 > 2:45:53various organisations, including the International HIV and aids Alliance
2:45:53 > 2:45:58and the most recent incident was last week when 13 activists and
2:45:58 > 2:46:02lawyers were arrested in Tanzania for trying to challenge the ban on
2:46:02 > 2:46:08drop-in centres that serve communities at risk of HIV. These 13
2:46:08 > 2:46:13were accused of promoting homosexuality. They're still in
2:46:13 > 2:46:17detention. Can I urge the Minister to take to his colleagues in the
2:46:17 > 2:46:22Foreign Office the vital importance of the UK raising the cases of these
2:46:22 > 2:46:26imprisoned people? The honourable gentleman spoke about Iran. We know
2:46:26 > 2:46:29Iran is a country that still executes people simply for the crime
2:46:29 > 2:46:36of being LGBT.
2:46:36 > 2:46:40Can I urge the Minister to press those countries like Iran that do
2:46:40 > 2:46:45that to stop using the death penalty against LGBT people? Most of the
2:46:45 > 2:46:48examples I have given are from Russia, Africa and the Middle East
2:46:48 > 2:46:53but I want to say something about the United States of America.
2:46:53 > 2:46:58Resident Trump's decision to ban transgender people from the US and
2:46:58 > 2:47:03is an enormous shame and one I hope we can condemn on a cross-party
2:47:03 > 2:47:07basis. I pay tribute to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in
2:47:07 > 2:47:11America for his positive, measured response to President Trump's
2:47:11 > 2:47:15actions and I urge our government to do all that it can to press
2:47:15 > 2:47:19President Trump to think again on his attempt to ban trans people from
2:47:19 > 2:47:25the Armed Forces. But this is not the only incident of greater
2:47:25 > 2:47:30homophobia and trans phobia in American politics and policy.
2:47:30 > 2:47:34Recently, the United States voted against a UN Human Rights Council
2:47:34 > 2:47:38resolution that simply condemned the death penalty being used against
2:47:38 > 2:47:45people cos they are LGBT. President Obama left a positive legacy on LGBT
2:47:45 > 2:47:48rights which, tragically, President Trump is doing at the moment. That
2:47:48 > 2:47:54leaves a vacuum in terms of global LGBT rights. I hope the United
2:47:54 > 2:47:56Kingdom, working with like-minded countries, will play the leadership
2:47:56 > 2:48:01role that we should, to ensure we do not slip back but instead move
2:48:01 > 2:48:09forward to global LGBT equality. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want
2:48:09 > 2:48:12to pay, limits to my right honourable friend for securing this
2:48:12 > 2:48:15debate and for the leadership he gives to the all-party group, and
2:48:15 > 2:48:20the fact that he has taken a rather more voluntary process to actually
2:48:20 > 2:48:23taking itself onto the back benches to champion the cause is like this,
2:48:23 > 2:48:31to which the quality of his leadership we all benefit from. My
2:48:31 > 2:48:35rather more compulsory route to this process means I have the freedom to
2:48:35 > 2:48:42get engaged in these kinds of issues. But they are incredibly
2:48:42 > 2:48:48important. I want to reflect on why this issue is so important. What has
2:48:48 > 2:48:52brought us here is the headline issues of what is happening in
2:48:52 > 2:48:57Azerbaijan, Egypt and Chechnya, which has been pointed out by
2:48:57 > 2:49:01previous speakers. But you only have to go online to look for a gay man
2:49:01 > 2:49:06being lynched in Nigeria, to see horrific videos of mob justice
2:49:06 > 2:49:13there, and we have seen what happens with Isis's administration of
2:49:13 > 2:49:17justice to gay people being heaved off tall buildings. I want to
2:49:17 > 2:49:23reflect briefly on some of the headline issues in Chechnya, because
2:49:23 > 2:49:28some of those cases are truly appalling. The honourable gentleman
2:49:28 > 2:49:36talked about one man and the evidence he has given. He was lucky
2:49:36 > 2:49:41enough to survive. There is the story of a pop star who went back to
2:49:41 > 2:49:46Chechnya, to his sister's wedding, on the 8th of August. And by all the
2:49:46 > 2:49:50accounts I am able to get hold of, he was arrested within three hours
2:49:50 > 2:49:57and was dead within ten. This is a man who has had his picture taken
2:49:57 > 2:50:03with the leader of Chechnya riding on his popularity. If it can happen
2:50:03 > 2:50:10to him in Chechnya, then we should draw our own conclusions about just
2:50:10 > 2:50:14how appalling the situation is, and our expectations of the Russian
2:50:14 > 2:50:22authority addressing this. But it is these headline atrocities that have
2:50:22 > 2:50:28brought us here today, and the scale of arrests in Azerbaijan, Egypt and
2:50:28 > 2:50:32the direct state repression. But it is not just those issues and
2:50:32 > 2:50:35individuals involved in those instances, who are counted in their
2:50:35 > 2:50:41hundreds. It is actually the number of people affected by the issues we
2:50:41 > 2:50:46are talking about today go, in terms of direct oppression, too many
2:50:46 > 2:50:49hundreds of thousands of people in relationships they don't want to be
2:50:49 > 2:50:57in, of corrective rape, of forced marriage is. It is millions of
2:50:57 > 2:51:02people. In the case of India, to 100 million people who, because of their
2:51:02 > 2:51:08laws, are simply not able to be themselves. Of course.Would my
2:51:08 > 2:51:12honourable friend agree that although in various countries there
2:51:12 > 2:51:17is a wide range of laws to protect victims of abuse and discrimination,
2:51:17 > 2:51:23the reality is that many are put off using the law to protect themselves
2:51:23 > 2:51:28because of high legal costs, high burden of proof, or the worry about
2:51:28 > 2:51:35implications on future job prospects or whatever?Exactly. All of the
2:51:35 > 2:51:40difficulties of living a life if the society that you live in and the
2:51:40 > 2:51:47laws you live around to not allow you to be yourself. And the reason,
2:51:47 > 2:51:53I would suggest, and obviously so many of the honourable and right
2:51:53 > 2:51:56honourable member speaking in this debate are LGBT themselves, are
2:51:56 > 2:52:01because we know just how important this freedom is to us. And I know,
2:52:01 > 2:52:07because I only came out when I was 50. And when I was growing up,
2:52:07 > 2:52:12having been born in 1960, into the United Kingdom that existed in the
2:52:12 > 2:52:1560s and 70s, that what I understood about myself was that there was
2:52:15 > 2:52:19something wrong with me. And I wanted to be a soldier and a
2:52:19 > 2:52:24politician. And that was wholly inconsistent ever with beginning to
2:52:24 > 2:52:33come to terms with myself. There are awful lot of men of my age who are
2:52:33 > 2:52:36now coming out because they now have the societal freedom and the
2:52:36 > 2:52:44professional freedom to be to do so. But the lesson that the British
2:52:44 > 2:52:48experience can give, and the British story, to the rest of the world, as
2:52:48 > 2:52:56to how we have moved from active implementation of the Criminal Law
2:52:56 > 2:53:02Amendment Act 50s, with over 1000 men in prison for consent Sewol
2:53:02 > 2:53:08same-sex acts, through to where we are now, is a story that we should
2:53:08 > 2:53:17be able to tell to others. I want to reflect on the role we can take as
2:53:17 > 2:53:22parliamentarians. One should not underestimate the huge challenge our
2:53:22 > 2:53:27parliamentary colleagues, in societies that are, because of their
2:53:27 > 2:53:31religious beliefs and the influence of religion in those countries, who
2:53:31 > 2:53:36are in the same state that the United Kingdom was in the 1950s, in
2:53:36 > 2:53:42terms of their attitudes towards LGBT people. We should not
2:53:42 > 2:53:48underestimate the effect of our own personal stories and testimony,
2:53:48 > 2:53:52looking our fellow parliamentarians in the eye, where we have the
2:53:52 > 2:53:56opportunity to do so, saying, get them to first base. Your sexuality
2:53:56 > 2:54:02is not something you choose. And I used those terms in a debate in this
2:54:02 > 2:54:08house before I truly understood myself. And quite rightly, I was
2:54:08 > 2:54:14heckled, quite properly, by colleagues on the other benches. Do
2:54:14 > 2:54:19not assume that people understand that. And once you get to that first
2:54:19 > 2:54:24base, that your sexuality is very largely innate, if not completely in
2:54:24 > 2:54:32eight, not something that you choose, then, of course, the public
2:54:32 > 2:54:37policy that ought to come from that flows from that. So you can say to
2:54:37 > 2:54:40your parliamentary colleagues in other countries, you are
2:54:40 > 2:54:43representing gay people, whether you like it or not, and representing
2:54:43 > 2:54:48just as many gay people as I am. There is no evidence that there is
2:54:48 > 2:54:55any difference in the proportion of sexuality is between races, parts of
2:54:55 > 2:55:00the world, at all. So they have a responsibility, and I think our
2:55:00 > 2:55:03responsibility is to help parliamentary colleagues in other
2:55:03 > 2:55:07countries, who have to lead opinion to change those societies, by the
2:55:07 > 2:55:14evidence we can give them from our experience.Thank you, Mr Deputy
2:55:14 > 2:55:18Speaker. When I received the e-mail about this debate asking if there
2:55:18 > 2:55:21were any countries I would like information about ahead of the
2:55:21 > 2:55:27debate, I thought, where do I begin? I do not wish to talk down progress,
2:55:27 > 2:55:31because we have made great progress, but the world is still a much
2:55:31 > 2:55:34smaller and more dangerous place for LGBT people, whether we like it or
2:55:34 > 2:55:42not. On the Foreign Office travel advice website, a more than 30% of
2:55:42 > 2:55:45the 225 countries listed, homosexuality, or homosexual acts,
2:55:45 > 2:55:49are illegal. In nearly a quarter there is a warning of some kind for
2:55:49 > 2:55:52OG BT people travelling to these countries. While we have the luxury
2:55:52 > 2:56:00of heeding that advice, people living there have no such luxury.
2:56:00 > 2:56:04The advice that frequently appears for those countries where being LGBT
2:56:04 > 2:56:08is legal but frowned upon, or not universally accepted is that you
2:56:08 > 2:56:14should be discreet. Imagine living your life that way. It is as
2:56:14 > 2:56:18observed as asking someone to be discreet about their height. The
2:56:18 > 2:56:22advice for countries like Armenia, where homosexuality is illegal, says
2:56:22 > 2:56:25it is the culture there for same-sex couples to be often seen holding
2:56:25 > 2:56:30hands and kissing in public. This is common and not necessarily an
2:56:30 > 2:56:35indicator of sexual orientation. So it is not the act of the same-sex
2:56:35 > 2:56:39couple holding hands or kissing, but their sexuality that is the problem.
2:56:39 > 2:56:42It is heterosexual privilege in action. It is often that intolerance
2:56:42 > 2:56:46under the surface of society that leads to shocking attacks against
2:56:46 > 2:56:51people that we have seen around the world. It is not enough to
2:56:51 > 2:56:55decriminalise homosexuality. There must be laws protecting the rights
2:56:55 > 2:56:59and safety of people, and an effort to make sure that society catches up
2:56:59 > 2:57:04with those laws by per -- supporting groups working in communities.
2:57:04 > 2:57:08Unfortunately, that is not the case for too many LGBT people around the
2:57:08 > 2:57:14world. Mr Deputy Speaker, it is up to progressive countries like us to
2:57:14 > 2:57:18lead the way in global LGBT rights, particularly in Commonwealth
2:57:18 > 2:57:22countries. To do so, we must make sure our own house is in order. It
2:57:22 > 2:57:27is shameful that complaints of research by the time for inclusive
2:57:27 > 2:57:33education campaign in Scotland has found that 90% of LGBT young people
2:57:33 > 2:57:38experience homophobia, by phobia and transfer the in school, with 27%
2:57:38 > 2:57:43having attempted suicide as a result of bullying. I agree with my
2:57:43 > 2:57:46honourable friend about section 28 but in some ways we have not moved
2:57:46 > 2:57:52on in that regard. There is still a hangover from that legislation.
2:57:52 > 2:57:58Happy to give away.He is making a very powerful speech. Many
2:57:58 > 2:58:01contributors have spoken about the example we have set, but he is right
2:58:01 > 2:58:06to say we have to make sure our house is in order. Despite progress
2:58:06 > 2:58:10in Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland, we still see Northern
2:58:10 > 2:58:12Ireland significantly lagging behind. He has mentioned trans
2:58:12 > 2:58:16phobia and I are meeting an activist group in Cardiff this evening, a
2:58:16 > 2:58:23support group. We need to do more on the issue of trans-community issues.
2:58:23 > 2:58:28I thank my honourable friend for his point and I will come on to talk
2:58:28 > 2:58:32about LGBT rights elsewhere in the UK. The campaign has found that
2:58:32 > 2:58:37often teachers do not know what they are allowed to talk about in schools
2:58:37 > 2:58:42and do not feel adequately trained to tackle LGBT issues. They seek to
2:58:42 > 2:58:46change that. I welcome the work they have done and continue to do. Today,
2:58:46 > 2:58:50they managed to secure the support of the first Catholic priest to back
2:58:50 > 2:58:58the campaign. He joins other faith leaders in the Scottish Episcopal
2:58:58 > 2:59:01Church and the Church of Scotland as well as teachers, trade unions,
2:59:01 > 2:59:05charities and politicians from all parties, in recognising we need
2:59:05 > 2:59:10action for LGBT young people at school. It is important we have
2:59:10 > 2:59:13these examples from leading figures in society. Legislation in
2:59:13 > 2:59:19government is also part of a leading role in changing societal attitudes.
2:59:19 > 2:59:23So I wonder, Mr Deputy Speaker, what example the Prime Minister set when
2:59:23 > 2:59:27she welcomed into the heart of government a party hardly famed for
2:59:27 > 2:59:33its support for LGBT rights. When I got on a plane in Glasgow and landed
2:59:33 > 2:59:38in Belfast, not far from where my husband was born, despite not having
2:59:38 > 2:59:43left the UK, our marriage is no longer recognised. Because the DUP,
2:59:43 > 2:59:47ignoring public opinion and blocking the will of the Northern Ireland
2:59:47 > 2:59:51Assembly, refuses to extend the rights to people in Northern Ireland
2:59:51 > 2:59:54that are enjoyed by citizens in the rest of Ireland and the UK, basic
2:59:54 > 3:00:00rights. Members of this house who find themselves propping up the
3:00:00 > 3:00:04government are on record making comments such as, I am pretty
3:00:04 > 3:00:09repulsed by gay and lesbian isn't, I think it is wrong. I think that
3:00:09 > 3:00:12those people harm themselves and without caring about it, arms
3:00:12 > 3:00:15society. That does not mean to say that I hate them, but I hate what
3:00:15 > 3:00:21they do. LGBT people harming society.
3:00:21 > 3:00:24Shocking comments. The Prime Minister talks about how far we
3:00:24 > 3:00:27still have to go, yet this is the company she is keeping in
3:00:27 > 3:00:33government.I am grateful to the honourable gentleman forgiving way.
3:00:33 > 3:00:38Does he agree that the DUP would do well to look south to the Republic
3:00:38 > 3:00:42of Ireland, which, despite coming from the Catholic tradition, as I do
3:00:42 > 3:00:47myself, and was delighted to hear about the Roman Catholic priest,
3:00:47 > 3:00:51despite coming from the Catholic tradition, we now have gay marriage
3:00:51 > 3:00:54recognised and a gay Taoiseach. Does he agree that the DUP would do well
3:00:54 > 3:00:59to follow in the footsteps of their fellow countrymen?I thank the
3:00:59 > 3:01:03honourable lady and I agree with her. They would do well to look to
3:01:03 > 3:01:08Scotland, and the example we are setting as well. It is a short
3:01:08 > 3:01:11journey from Glasgow to Belfast, but what a change in rights when you do
3:01:11 > 3:01:15that. £1 billion was the cost of the agreement that help this government
3:01:15 > 3:01:20together. Why wasn't LGBT equality for all UK citizens part of that
3:01:20 > 3:01:25deal? What kind of example can we hope to set for the rest of the
3:01:25 > 3:01:30world when we reward homophobia with a place in government? Silence and
3:01:30 > 3:01:33inaction is not an option. It is time for the government to put its
3:01:33 > 3:01:40mouth where it money is.
3:01:40 > 3:01:45Thank you, it is a pleasure to follow the honourable gentleman for
3:01:45 > 3:01:48Rutherglen and Hamilton West, not least because it is a part of
3:01:48 > 3:01:54Scotland my family hails from and indeed I cut my campaigning teeth in
3:01:54 > 3:01:57the Rutherglen constituency. Despite there being a ward called Tory glen,
3:01:57 > 3:02:12I came for the! -- fourth. My honourable friend was correct to say
3:02:12 > 3:02:16that we have a two world situation. We should celebrate the fact there
3:02:16 > 3:02:22are many countries in the world which are making commendable
3:02:22 > 3:02:27progress on LGBT+ issues. On the first of this month, Germany,
3:02:27 > 3:02:31same-sex marriage in Germany became legal following a vote in her
3:02:31 > 3:02:35parliament earlier this year. We know about the referendum in
3:02:35 > 3:02:38Australia, which I hope will go the right way. I have relatives over
3:02:38 > 3:02:45there and I will do a spot of telephone canvassing to make sure
3:02:45 > 3:02:52they vote the right way. And Taiwan has become the first country in Asia
3:02:52 > 3:02:55where their highest court recognises same-sex marriage. I hope that will
3:02:55 > 3:03:01play despite all the other tensions in that part of the world. I hope
3:03:01 > 3:03:08that example will encourage others to the same route. As many members
3:03:08 > 3:03:13on both sides have detailed, there are so many shocking examples of
3:03:13 > 3:03:19countries where there is an incredibly regressive and retrograde
3:03:19 > 3:03:24developments taking place. The point I want to make this this debate is
3:03:24 > 3:03:27principally this. We have to be honest with ourselves that there is
3:03:27 > 3:03:32not one simple, easy quick solution to getting these countries to move
3:03:32 > 3:03:37to a more enlightened place. You cannot just legislate for change.
3:03:37 > 3:03:40You have to encourage them to lower culture is to adapt and prejudices
3:03:40 > 3:03:49to be challenged and diminished. As other members of mentioned, we must
3:03:49 > 3:03:54remind ourselves that this country has been on a journey. Yes, we have
3:03:54 > 3:03:59probably the most advanced equalities legislation in the world.
3:03:59 > 3:04:04Yes, this Parliament is one of the most LGBT+ friendly in the world.
3:04:04 > 3:04:09Yes, we have seen an enormous shift in British public opinion in a
3:04:09 > 3:04:12relatively short period of time it's only a couple of decades ago that
3:04:12 > 3:04:16the majority of the country believed homosexual acts were sinful or
3:04:16 > 3:04:22wrong, that has been reversed and rightfully so. But prejudice
3:04:22 > 3:04:28remains. I want briefly to reference two events in recent months which
3:04:28 > 3:04:33confirmed to me that prejudice is still there. In the summer, I
3:04:33 > 3:04:39recorded a video for the Diana award back anti-bullying project. The very
3:04:39 > 3:04:46fact we have to do these campaigns where young people are bullied at
3:04:46 > 3:04:51school, shows us that prejudice remains. In recent weeks, my new
3:04:51 > 3:04:58partner and I were walking in a shopping centre holding hands, as I
3:04:58 > 3:05:04should have the right to do. And someone who clearly knew me shouted
3:05:04 > 3:05:09out a comment that was both racist and homophobic. That, in Milton
3:05:09 > 3:05:13Keynes, one of the more enlightened and modern parts of our country.
3:05:13 > 3:05:18That had happened shows there is prejudice is still in this country.
3:05:18 > 3:05:26We are still on a journey. I will give way.I want to reinforce,
3:05:26 > 3:05:29prejudice and bullying in schools but there are aspects of public
3:05:29 > 3:05:34policy that are still in the wrong place. I talk about the prescription
3:05:34 > 3:05:44of prep, established with £1 million worth of advantage if a gay man
3:05:44 > 3:05:47could be prescribed prep, we can't have a public open policy, we have
3:05:47 > 3:05:52to have a large trial to get this thing delivered because of the
3:05:52 > 3:05:56attitude that would then surround the challenge faced by Secretary of
3:05:56 > 3:06:01State for Health in order to do the right thing around public health.My
3:06:01 > 3:06:07honourable friend makes an important point. Another example to back up
3:06:07 > 3:06:10what I said, that we are still on a journey in this country, even though
3:06:10 > 3:06:15we have legislated in many areas and we have to understand that other
3:06:15 > 3:06:20countries will also have to take a long time to get to the point we
3:06:20 > 3:06:24want them to get to, you cannot just legislate. That's why we have to use
3:06:24 > 3:06:28all the tools at our disposal. And colleagues on both sides have
3:06:28 > 3:06:34mentioned some of those. Yes, we have soft power that we can exert
3:06:34 > 3:06:36because of our historical relationships with many countries
3:06:36 > 3:06:43and I very much hope we use the meeting coming up to put these
3:06:43 > 3:06:46issues on the agenda. The horrible case in the UAE of the Scottish
3:06:46 > 3:06:55gentleman who was put on trial and has now had his charges dropped, I
3:06:55 > 3:07:00very much hope that with the exertion of diplomacy from this
3:07:00 > 3:07:07country that helped that along the way. We should make sure the soft
3:07:07 > 3:07:09power we can exert through our overseas aid budget is used in the
3:07:09 > 3:07:15right way. The honourable gentleman absolutely cock at night, we need to
3:07:15 > 3:07:21make sure the money is there to help groups on the ground. -- got that
3:07:21 > 3:07:31right. We cannot take away money for health projects just because of a
3:07:31 > 3:07:34horrible LGBT+ policy, it should be the other way round, we should use
3:07:34 > 3:07:40that soft power to encourage them down the road. As individual
3:07:40 > 3:07:42parliamentarians, in my constituency, I have a large
3:07:42 > 3:07:49Nigerian population. I do not make any secrets of my homosexuality when
3:07:49 > 3:07:53I go with me then, I've that simple act of me being open with them and
3:07:53 > 3:07:57they can judge me however they like, hopefully they will see I can act as
3:07:57 > 3:08:03a politician and that then filters through their community. I hope that
3:08:03 > 3:08:10this is something each and every one of us can do. We need to make more
3:08:10 > 3:08:16use of soft power from sporting and cultural events, like the upcoming
3:08:16 > 3:08:24Olympic Games in Japan in 2020, I hope sports men and women can be out
3:08:24 > 3:08:29and proud and shown at their sexuality makes no difference to our
3:08:29 > 3:08:34sporting ability. And as the honourable lady mentioned, trade
3:08:34 > 3:08:44will be an enormous lever. I do not want to get into a Brexit discussion
3:08:44 > 3:08:48but one of the consequences of leaving the EU is that we can
3:08:48 > 3:08:54develop new trade policies with many countries in Africa and I hope that
3:08:54 > 3:09:02better interlinking of our economies, where companies there
3:09:02 > 3:09:08will realise there is a huge pink pound market in the UK for them to
3:09:08 > 3:09:11sell their products or to in their country might be inhibited because
3:09:11 > 3:09:19of their LGBT+ policies, I hope that it by bit, example by example, those
3:09:19 > 3:09:23closer economic ties will help break down some of the prejudices. It is
3:09:23 > 3:09:29not going to be easy, we should pretend it is. It is not going to be
3:09:29 > 3:09:34quick but that should not dissuade us from the task to achieve a world
3:09:34 > 3:09:37where people, whatever their nationality or religion or
3:09:37 > 3:09:48background can love whomever they want to.A pleasure to follow the
3:09:48 > 3:09:53honourable gentleman, can I start by paying tribute to the security of
3:09:53 > 3:10:00this debate and the hard work and keeping this important human rights
3:10:00 > 3:10:05issue high on the agenda. Over the past year and in recent months, we
3:10:05 > 3:10:09have continued to see persistent and all reports of persecution of the
3:10:09 > 3:10:15LGBT community from Chechnya to Azerbaijan, Egypt to Tajikistan and
3:10:15 > 3:10:21so many places in between. Kidnapping, mistreatment, in
3:10:21 > 3:10:24custody, harassment, torture, and a significant scale. With the leaders
3:10:24 > 3:10:28of these countries so often appearing to face nothing more than
3:10:28 > 3:10:35a stern talking to. I was going to mention the murdered gay Chechnya
3:10:35 > 3:10:41and pop star but that has already been highlighted, where he was
3:10:41 > 3:10:47simply attending his sister's wedding Chechnya. Homophobia in all
3:10:47 > 3:10:50shapes and forms is absolutely abhorrent to be state-sponsored
3:10:50 > 3:10:54persecution we still see too often is disgusting and despicable and far
3:10:54 > 3:10:58from being the strong men they think they are, its perpetrators are among
3:10:58 > 3:11:03the most cowardly, pathetic and vile individuals alive. The process of
3:11:03 > 3:11:06turning this around will not be an easy one and it will take
3:11:06 > 3:11:11co-ordinated international action rather than isolated Government spot
3:11:11 > 3:11:14the UK Government should be commended for the times it has shown
3:11:14 > 3:11:20leadership with respect to LGBT rights. There is so much work ahead.
3:11:20 > 3:11:23It is imperative the Government persist in calling for the immediate
3:11:23 > 3:11:26release for people when they are detained on the basis of their
3:11:26 > 3:11:32sexual orientation. Not only for legislation that allows that to
3:11:32 > 3:11:37happen, but it also has to be positively for legislation that
3:11:37 > 3:11:42protects against discrimination act protects human rights. Laws and
3:11:42 > 3:11:45political leaders are just one side of the coin, it's not just about
3:11:45 > 3:11:49changing the minds of presidents and prime ministers. For example,
3:11:49 > 3:11:54according to a 2013 survey, 95% of Egyptians believe homosexuality
3:11:54 > 3:11:59should not be accepted by society. So, there is an even bigger battle
3:11:59 > 3:12:04to change hearts and minds more generally. But we can support change
3:12:04 > 3:12:08and members have rightly pointed out how both Government and business
3:12:08 > 3:12:13must support NGOs protecting LGBT rights. We must be ambassadors at
3:12:13 > 3:12:19every opportunity, both in actions abroad and when we hosts. Something
3:12:19 > 3:12:26brought to mind Praet house in Glasgow in 2014 during the
3:12:26 > 3:12:31Commonwealth Games and a good example of how close can promote
3:12:31 > 3:12:39participation. 90 events were hosted and over 6000 people passed through
3:12:39 > 3:12:44the doors from at least 59 countries and territories, all of whom will
3:12:44 > 3:12:49now know that Glasgow, Scotland and the UK want to support LGBT rights.
3:12:49 > 3:12:53Even accepting that we hear still have a journey to go. Before
3:12:53 > 3:12:56concluding, I want to raise the issue of how we treat people who
3:12:56 > 3:13:04have fled repressive regimes. Those who seek refugee status here. I
3:13:04 > 3:13:10recall representing a young gay man in few years ago and back then the
3:13:10 > 3:13:15legal challenge to what was then offers practice, to refuse
3:13:15 > 3:13:19protection on the basis that a person could be discreet, had barely
3:13:19 > 3:13:22started by the Supreme Court made absolutely clear that what is
3:13:22 > 3:13:25protected under the refugee Convention is not something right to
3:13:25 > 3:13:29live a shadowy and furtive existence at the right to live freely and
3:13:29 > 3:13:34openly as a gay man or woman. In his Speech, Lord Rodger put it in a
3:13:34 > 3:13:39rather more colourful way. He said, to illustrate the point with trivial
3:13:39 > 3:13:42stereotypical examples from British society, just as the essentials are
3:13:42 > 3:13:45free to enjoy themselves playing rugby, drinking beer and talking
3:13:45 > 3:13:49about girls with their mates, so mail essentials are to be free to
3:13:49 > 3:13:52Kylie Minogue concerts, drinking exotic cocktails and talking about
3:13:52 > 3:13:58boys with a straight female mate. In other words, gay men are to be as
3:13:58 > 3:14:02free as the street equivalents in the society content to live their
3:14:02 > 3:14:05lives in a way that is natural to them as gay men without fear of
3:14:05 > 3:14:11persecution. Awful, awful stereotypes aside, that was a
3:14:11 > 3:14:16ground-breaking decision. Almost seven years later, there is no
3:14:16 > 3:14:19concern for the Home Office is not taking that seriously. Different
3:14:19 > 3:14:24stages of the asylum process, from detention, two interviews, to
3:14:24 > 3:14:27guidance and removals being implemented. I very much welcome and
3:14:27 > 3:14:32encourage the Government to continue and redouble its efforts of tackling
3:14:32 > 3:14:37persecution abroad. I simply ask also to consider how it treats those
3:14:37 > 3:14:44who have fled that same persecution here at home.Thank you for allowing
3:14:44 > 3:14:50me to talk in this Speech this afternoon. I think my honourable
3:14:50 > 3:14:54friend for securing this important debate. Madame Deputy Speaker, I am
3:14:54 > 3:14:58proud to sit with members on these benches who have championed LGBT
3:14:58 > 3:15:03rights. In the 20 manifesto that I was elected on, it clearly stated
3:15:03 > 3:15:07they were to combat the perpetuation of violence against people because
3:15:07 > 3:15:13of faith, gender or sexuality. In action, conservatives have pushed
3:15:13 > 3:15:16for the marriage equality act and are now considering the gender
3:15:16 > 3:15:20recognition act and we, on these benches, are committed to the
3:15:20 > 3:15:27principle of equality in law. The UK has a proud record of LGBT rights,
3:15:27 > 3:15:34as we have heard today, it has been a journey that today we can stand
3:15:34 > 3:15:38tall on the international stage to champion how all parts of the
3:15:38 > 3:15:42people's rates and ability to live their lives first. Elsewhere, as
3:15:42 > 3:15:46they appeared, in Chechnya, Azerbaijan, we have had a number of
3:15:46 > 3:15:52issues put forward and I find...I thank my honourable friend for
3:15:52 > 3:15:58giving way. As vice-chairman the all-party group on Azerbaijan, I am
3:15:58 > 3:16:03also a gay man and had a meeting with still more this afternoon and
3:16:03 > 3:16:08assured them the greatest formally to get assurances that this sort of
3:16:08 > 3:16:11behaviour we saw in September, towards LGBT people will not be
3:16:11 > 3:16:17repeated.
3:16:17 > 3:16:25I wish him luck in his efforts. To me, ideologies that suppress,
3:16:25 > 3:16:29torture and kill because of one human's feelings towards another are
3:16:29 > 3:16:34unacceptable. In the UK, we must show international leadership.
3:16:34 > 3:16:38International leadership is very important, and I would refer to the
3:16:38 > 3:16:42United States, which was once a beacon for all kinds of individual
3:16:42 > 3:16:49rights. I would like to share my disappointment at the decisions of
3:16:49 > 3:16:53the latest American President to ban the further recruitment of
3:16:53 > 3:16:56trans-soldiers and deny funding of certain medical treatment for those
3:16:56 > 3:17:00soldiers. In my view, if someone is brave enough to fight for their
3:17:00 > 3:17:05country, their country should be brave enough to fight for them. In
3:17:05 > 3:17:09this country, we have a number of measures that are helping
3:17:09 > 3:17:13internationally. I welcome the Magna Carta fund which is being pushed
3:17:13 > 3:17:17through the FCO, and the government's recent funding of 3
3:17:17 > 3:17:19million to tackle homophobic bullying in schools in England and
3:17:19 > 3:17:25Wales. The Scottish Government have a campaign which has been very
3:17:25 > 3:17:28successful and their anti-bullying service is also welcomed. I look
3:17:28 > 3:17:34forward to a joined up campaign across the UK to promote LGBT
3:17:34 > 3:17:38rights. We are a leader but we have to maintain that position of
3:17:38 > 3:17:43leadership. Speaking for my constituency, the two centres where
3:17:43 > 3:17:48we are able to collect statistics on sexual orientation aggravated crime
3:17:48 > 3:17:57have shown that in the last year there were 21 cases of such crimes.
3:17:57 > 3:18:01Madam Deputy Speaker, in my view, that is 21 cases too many. A couple
3:18:01 > 3:18:07of weeks ago, I had the privilege, with other Scottish members, to
3:18:07 > 3:18:13speak to a representative from a campaign who talked about a number
3:18:13 > 3:18:17of individuals, journeys and challenges dealing with their
3:18:17 > 3:18:23sexuality. One story that has stuck with me was the story of a young man
3:18:23 > 3:18:27who was so tortured by his own sexuality and how he could fit in
3:18:27 > 3:18:31with his local community, he had gone so far as to pick a tree
3:18:31 > 3:18:35outside his house from which to hang in self, so he could be easily
3:18:35 > 3:18:43collected by his family. I am sure other members will join me when they
3:18:43 > 3:18:47acknowledge that we have heard so many tales of people tearing
3:18:47 > 3:18:52themselves apart because of the way they feel. They ask themselves one
3:18:52 > 3:18:57question. Can I love who I do and yet still be good? Still be a
3:18:57 > 3:19:04success? Still be able to contribute to their community? And I think,
3:19:04 > 3:19:07Madam Deputy Speaker, in this house the answer must be an unequivocal
3:19:07 > 3:19:12yes. I support the campaign that has been mentioned by honourable members
3:19:12 > 3:19:19earlier, which is promoting inclusive education to make sure
3:19:19 > 3:19:23LGBT issues are included as part of the curriculum. This is not to
3:19:23 > 3:19:27promote one path or another, but just to give young people the
3:19:27 > 3:19:34confidence to walk the path that is their own. Madam Deputy Speaker, we
3:19:34 > 3:19:39must uphold LGBT rights with the same ferocity as the rights of any
3:19:39 > 3:19:43of our citizens. We must tackle discrimination at home and abroad
3:19:43 > 3:19:46and give everyone the confidence to live their lives and contribute our
3:19:46 > 3:19:55society. Unlike so many issues debated in this house, equality in
3:19:55 > 3:19:58law is something we can all agree with and I hope every member in this
3:19:58 > 3:20:06house can commit to it.Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure to follow
3:20:06 > 3:20:09the honourable gentleman. We always welcome allies in these debates and
3:20:09 > 3:20:20there have been a number of powerful speeches. It is important to bring
3:20:20 > 3:20:23forward and raise the voices of those around the world who cannot
3:20:23 > 3:20:27speak for themselves. Gay people are born and belong to every society in
3:20:27 > 3:20:32the world, all ages, races and faiths. Doctors, teachers, farmers,
3:20:32 > 3:20:35bankers, soldiers and athletes. Whether we know it or knowledge it,
3:20:35 > 3:20:40they are our family, friends and neighbours. Being gay is not a
3:20:40 > 3:20:44Western invention but a human rights to. Those are the excellent words of
3:20:44 > 3:20:50Hillary Clinton, which I have returned to on many occasions. As
3:20:50 > 3:20:53someone who took until they were 32 to come to terms with my own
3:20:53 > 3:20:58sexuality, I spent a lot of my early life hiding from myself, from I
3:20:58 > 3:21:02feelings, from my emotions, from the truth of who I am and who I love.
3:21:02 > 3:21:07But I never had to hide from the state, from the police, or from fear
3:21:07 > 3:21:12of being persecuted or killed. Sadly, that is the experience of
3:21:12 > 3:21:17many LGBT people across the globe, in places such as Mauritania, Saudi
3:21:17 > 3:21:23Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan. In those countries coming 2017, being
3:21:23 > 3:21:28LGBT is punishable by death. So it is vital that we shine a light, as
3:21:28 > 3:21:32we have today, with many powerful speeches, of those people who are
3:21:32 > 3:21:36being persecuted and cannot speak for themselves. They gay men in
3:21:36 > 3:21:40Chechnya who are unable to hide, and have been beaten, tortured or
3:21:40 > 3:21:45killed. The stories that have emerged have sickened us all. There
3:21:45 > 3:21:50has been cross-party condemnation of those acts. It is good that
3:21:50 > 3:21:53international pressure has led to investigations but questions remain
3:21:53 > 3:21:57about President Putin's commitment to stopping these crimes, as the
3:21:57 > 3:22:00Guardian reported in May that rights activists worry that Chechen
3:22:00 > 3:22:03authorities will do anything to obstruct the federal investigation
3:22:03 > 3:22:09into these allegations. The UK Government must continue to put
3:22:09 > 3:22:12pressure on Russia and any future trade deals during or after Brexit
3:22:12 > 3:22:18must not be traded against human rights. I am proud the UK and
3:22:18 > 3:22:22Scotland has come so far. Scotland is recognised as one of the most
3:22:22 > 3:22:26progressive countries in terms of LGBT rights, and as the honourable
3:22:26 > 3:22:30gentleman previously referred to, we are now the gayest party in this
3:22:30 > 3:22:38Parliament. I was proud to bring those numbers up. And I am also
3:22:38 > 3:22:42proud that our only dirt in Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, was one
3:22:42 > 3:22:48of the first leaders to take part in a Pride event and speak at Glasgow
3:22:48 > 3:22:54Pride earlier this year. It is not a competition, at the end of the day,
3:22:54 > 3:22:58and it was interesting that now you have to be gay to become a
3:22:58 > 3:23:04Conservative candidate. That is most definitely progress. And the
3:23:04 > 3:23:08campaign, time for inclusive education, we have to pay tribute to
3:23:08 > 3:23:11Jordan daily and Liam Stevenson. They came to Parliament recently and
3:23:11 > 3:23:19I was glad to co-host an event with the honourable member, and the
3:23:19 > 3:23:29stories they told us. Jordan's story is so powerful. They have been
3:23:29 > 3:23:31putting pressure on the Scottish Government and other governments
3:23:31 > 3:23:35around the world and have been recognised by the UN as a leading
3:23:35 > 3:23:40light, another example of how we are leading the world. There are so many
3:23:40 > 3:23:43charities and organisations we can recognise. Stonewall and the
3:23:43 > 3:23:47kaleidoscope trust are doing work across the world. A friend of mine
3:23:47 > 3:23:52who was openly gay at secondary school, which I was too terrified to
3:23:52 > 3:23:56do, told me recently that if it had not been for the support she had
3:23:56 > 3:24:01from Stonewall, she may not have survived. They were, quite simply, a
3:24:01 > 3:24:06lifeline that saved her life.I'm grateful to my honourable friend.
3:24:06 > 3:24:10Does she agree that part of the problem that we have such difficulty
3:24:10 > 3:24:17with bullying over LGBTI issues in schools across the UK is the legacy
3:24:17 > 3:24:21of the section 28 legislation, which made it very difficult for teachers
3:24:21 > 3:24:24to deal with these issues. Will she act to the list of people to whom
3:24:24 > 3:24:31she wants to pay tribute the Labour government in Scotland which with
3:24:31 > 3:24:38the support of the SNP repeal that legislation, and the politicians and
3:24:38 > 3:24:41activists who fought for so many years against that pernicious
3:24:41 > 3:24:47legislation. I remember a march in Lanchester in 1987. So will she paid
3:24:47 > 3:24:52to be to the people who fought that legislation?I agree with her and I
3:24:52 > 3:24:57think there is a consensus in the chamber today and it is important to
3:24:57 > 3:25:01pay tribute to those who came before us, in the Labour government in
3:25:01 > 3:25:07Scotland, and what the UK Government is now doing, Justine Greening, the
3:25:07 > 3:25:11minister, the Secretary of State, doing a lot of work in terms of
3:25:11 > 3:25:15education and LGBT matters as well. It is important that we speak up and
3:25:15 > 3:25:18work together. We may disagree on many issues but there will be areas
3:25:18 > 3:25:23of agreement. And there are chinks of light internationally. We have
3:25:23 > 3:25:27countries like Australia who are finally catching up and have their
3:25:27 > 3:25:31public survey and pleb as I act. I should declare an interest as the
3:25:31 > 3:25:36partner of an Australian citizen. It saddens me that she does not have
3:25:36 > 3:25:39the same rights at home in Australia as she does here in Scotland and the
3:25:39 > 3:25:44UK. I want to pay to be to the right honourable member for Rutland, who
3:25:44 > 3:25:48is not in his place but was earlier, who took part, along with other
3:25:48 > 3:25:52members in this chamber, in a programme I made with the BBC about
3:25:52 > 3:25:59politicians and their experiences of coming out. We may not always agree,
3:25:59 > 3:26:02but I have respect for the position he took recently when he was
3:26:02 > 3:26:06addressing the Chicago Council on global affairs. He said the UK is
3:26:06 > 3:26:09committed to promoting and protecting the rights of women and
3:26:09 > 3:26:13girls and LGBT people everywhere and to build a wider international
3:26:13 > 3:26:16consensus around efforts to advance equality and justice, including in
3:26:16 > 3:26:20the US, because that is another area in which the US and the UK
3:26:20 > 3:26:23administration do not see eye to eye. We have made clear we oppose
3:26:23 > 3:26:28all the cremation, including within the Armed Forces. The honourable
3:26:28 > 3:26:33member previously made reference to President Trump's stance on
3:26:33 > 3:26:39transgender people within the army, which is at horror and. Restoring
3:26:39 > 3:26:42that military ban on transgender people is another regressive and
3:26:42 > 3:26:46divisive step he has made comments is good to see the UK Government and
3:26:46 > 3:26:50ministers and Secretary of State standing up to that. Perhaps
3:26:50 > 3:26:54President Trump could take inspiration from Jimmy Carter, who
3:26:54 > 3:26:58famously said, America did not invent human rights. In a very real
3:26:58 > 3:27:03sense, inhuman invented America. The question by the right honourable
3:27:03 > 3:27:07member for Reigate who asked an important question earlier, I am
3:27:07 > 3:27:11sure he is aware and will join with me in congratulating the Scottish
3:27:11 > 3:27:18Government who have made prep free on the NHS in Scotland. We hope his
3:27:18 > 3:27:21government will come forward with plans as soon as possible. He asked
3:27:21 > 3:27:27a question of the British Embassy is about flying the rainbow flag during
3:27:27 > 3:27:32Pride day, an international Day against homophobia and bi phobia. He
3:27:32 > 3:27:35got a response that said the promotion and protection of LGBT
3:27:35 > 3:27:39rights is a UK foreign policy priority, but there is no record
3:27:39 > 3:27:44kept. I am sure he will agree that it would be appropriate, if we are
3:27:44 > 3:27:47going to push and promote LGBT rights, that we should be tracking
3:27:47 > 3:27:56the progress of our embassies and missions around the world. And I am
3:27:56 > 3:28:02sure it is a policy priority for all of them, but there is progress that
3:28:02 > 3:28:06has been made. There are other chinks of light. In Taiwan and
3:28:06 > 3:28:09Malta, Malta has become the first European country to ban conversion
3:28:09 > 3:28:16therapy, something all of us will find utterly abhorrent. I will say
3:28:16 > 3:28:23in closing that someone at Pride in London spoke very powerfully before
3:28:23 > 3:28:28the march started about the fact that in this country and across the
3:28:28 > 3:28:33UK we must continue to have lists and celebrate our LGBT leaders. We
3:28:33 > 3:28:38must continue to march for those who can't march, but we must set the
3:28:38 > 3:28:42best possible example to the rest of the world and make sure that no one
3:28:42 > 3:28:49is persecuted just for loving the person that they love.Thank you,
3:28:49 > 3:28:52Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable
3:28:52 > 3:28:58lady. May I thank the right honourable member for securing this
3:28:58 > 3:29:03important debate. In fact, the backbench business committee that
3:29:03 > 3:29:08keeps keeping me in this chamber on a Thursday afternoon, really
3:29:08 > 3:29:13important cross-party debates. And I know the honourable member is
3:29:13 > 3:29:22working very hard on LGBTI writes, here at home and abroad. And I think
3:29:22 > 3:29:26parliamentarians from across this house absolutely, by coming out and
3:29:26 > 3:29:32most importantly speaking out, lead the way on this. It takes courage. I
3:29:32 > 3:29:36see, as a fellow human, that courage, and I see, as a fellow
3:29:36 > 3:29:41human, that I must support that courage. Living in the UK today, we
3:29:41 > 3:29:44have found out that absolutely we are in a position where we are
3:29:44 > 3:29:51leading the world and we are having a very positive journey, all with
3:29:51 > 3:29:53friends, families, neighbours, colleagues openly identifying
3:29:53 > 3:29:58themselves as LGBT community. And this is being reflected through
3:29:58 > 3:30:03government policy. We have made huge strides since 2010, and in
3:30:03 > 3:30:06particular under David Cameron, where we witnessed the introduction
3:30:06 > 3:30:14of marriage equality. We have seen laws passed and the abolition of
3:30:14 > 3:30:19offences which have affected so many people. And the strides this summer
3:30:19 > 3:30:24from the Prime Minister in terms of the consultation forthcoming on the
3:30:24 > 3:30:27gender recognition act. I am fortunate to be working along with
3:30:27 > 3:30:32one of my constituents and the transgender community who are
3:30:32 > 3:30:35working hard on these issues. So I welcome the government's plans and
3:30:35 > 3:30:40look forward to that moving forward. Furthermore, as a former member of
3:30:40 > 3:30:44the women and equality is select committee I am delighted that it is
3:30:44 > 3:30:47this Parliament that has done the first investigating into transgender
3:30:47 > 3:30:54rights. We were right to do that. 650,000 people identifying as
3:30:54 > 3:30:59transgender. We have to tackle this. It affects families, mental health,
3:30:59 > 3:31:05the NHS in our communities. Our work is world leading on this. Can I
3:31:05 > 3:31:09thank the Lesbian and gay liaison team at Hampshire Police for all the
3:31:09 > 3:31:15work they do across our communities? We all want equality for all. It
3:31:15 > 3:31:19makes us safer, happier and healthier. And I want to thank those
3:31:19 > 3:31:24openly working in the NHS, the Fire Services and all our communities. By
3:31:24 > 3:31:29working together, it makes us stronger, and by working with trans
3:31:29 > 3:31:37people in particular in this area, it makes our communities stronger.
3:31:38 > 3:31:41Knitted hate crime awareness week and we all have a responsibility to
3:31:41 > 3:31:47be temperate in actions and language. Tolerance matters. Hate
3:31:47 > 3:31:51crime can leave an individual, family or community isolated and
3:31:51 > 3:31:56highlights a broken society. In the UK, there is a place for hate. Being
3:31:56 > 3:31:59tolerant and understanding makes us safer together. I congratulate the
3:31:59 > 3:32:04work of the Hampshire Police and Crime Commissioner and his focus on
3:32:04 > 3:32:09joint work with the Hampshire Citizens Advice service on reporting
3:32:09 > 3:32:13safe spaces in Citizens Advice Bureau and the Isle of Wight, who
3:32:13 > 3:32:19have secured a Pride there in 2018. Next year, we will have a great
3:32:19 > 3:32:24occasion and I have been contacted by constituents who want a Pride
3:32:24 > 3:32:28event in Eastleigh, they want to see their town flying the flag. I was
3:32:28 > 3:32:32delighted to hear the member for Ribble Valley also mentioning this.
3:32:32 > 3:32:38We are here and listen to those living in fear worldwide because we
3:32:38 > 3:32:46must all remember that being you is not a crime but targeting youth,
3:32:46 > 3:32:49bullying, threatening you, whoever you are and where you live, that is
3:32:49 > 3:32:52a crime and you do not have to put up with it, reported and ask for
3:32:52 > 3:32:57help and I congratulate Hampshire and Isle of Wight youth Commission,
3:32:57 > 3:33:02who are doing a project on tackling this. This is a learned behaviour,
3:33:02 > 3:33:07maybe at school or college and it is simply unacceptable. If we can
3:33:07 > 3:33:11achieve all of this year, we need to do much more abroad and we have
3:33:11 > 3:33:17heard about the perils if you happen to be born in Chechnya, Azerbaijan
3:33:17 > 3:33:21or indeed Egypt. And in fact, hearing that apparently in Chechnya,
3:33:21 > 3:33:32you don't exist if you are LGBTI, everybody stands against that. We've
3:33:32 > 3:33:36been talking about Australia, where voting is compulsory. Should the law
3:33:36 > 3:33:43be changed to allow same-sex couples to marry? A strong Yes vote would be
3:33:43 > 3:33:49a huge victory for LGBTI Australians and this move forward can the
3:33:49 > 3:33:53Government sent a clear message once again globally. I welcome what we're
3:33:53 > 3:34:02doing in the UK to make the lives of people around the world better
3:34:02 > 3:34:07through the FCA and our aid budget. We need to make sure we continue to
3:34:07 > 3:34:12work with the UN with the free and equal campaign, which indeed is
3:34:12 > 3:34:17heading towards about 2 billion people who are interacting through
3:34:17 > 3:34:21the power of social media. We have a huge ability to change attitudes
3:34:21 > 3:34:27because of that. To summarise, we have made some huge strides in LGBT
3:34:27 > 3:34:33rights here in the UK. We do set an example, as parliamentarians, in our
3:34:33 > 3:34:39local communities, in this Chamber and across the globe. Indeed...I am
3:34:39 > 3:34:44very grateful to her for giving way and I will not seek her support
3:34:44 > 3:34:46immediately for the amendment I'm about to refer to because they
3:34:46 > 3:34:50relate to the EU withdrawal Bill and she may wish to looked more
3:34:50 > 3:34:55carefully. But can I encourage her to look at amendments to an 87-290,
3:34:55 > 3:35:00which are supported by the equality and human rights Commission, Amnesty
3:35:00 > 3:35:03International, which I think of a relevant to ensuring that was part
3:35:03 > 3:35:06of the process of conversion from EU multi channel, and human rights
3:35:06 > 3:35:08Commission, Amnesty International, which I think of a relevant to
3:35:08 > 3:35:10ensuring that was part of the process of conversion from EU Lottie
3:35:10 > 3:35:13Kendall, that they relate to the EU withdrawal Bill and she may wish to
3:35:13 > 3:35:16look at them more carefully. But can I encourage her to look at
3:35:16 > 3:35:18amendments to an 87-290, which are supported by the equality and human
3:35:18 > 3:35:20rights Commission, Amnesty International, which I think are
3:35:20 > 3:35:22very relevant to ensuring that as part of the process of conversion
3:35:22 > 3:35:24from unity candle, and we do preserve human rights aspects of
3:35:24 > 3:35:27that EU law, which often has been used in support of LGBT rights. I
3:35:27 > 3:35:30hope she will at least look at those. Arrow-mac I think the
3:35:30 > 3:35:32honourable gentleman for this intervention. Brexit to me, is
3:35:32 > 3:35:34Brexit.It is not going back on equality. I feel strongly about
3:35:34 > 3:35:36that. I also mention the WHO who have made such a regrettable
3:35:36 > 3:35:39decision mentioned by the honourable member for Ribble Valley, I am sure
3:35:39 > 3:35:45UK Treasury made a difference on that. Yes, the world does watch us
3:35:45 > 3:35:54and indeed the Speech and the Pink Gewirtz recognised that, from the
3:35:54 > 3:35:57Prime Minister, and I recognised that she has the chance to support
3:35:57 > 3:36:02the LGBTI community until it but to my children, not my children's
3:36:02 > 3:36:07children, growing up in a world where your sexuality nor your gender
3:36:07 > 3:36:17and any kind of method to charge you at all.Thank you, Madam Deputy
3:36:17 > 3:36:21Speaker. I would like to thank the member for Arundel and South Downs
3:36:21 > 3:36:25for securing this debate. It is an important debate, particularly in
3:36:25 > 3:36:31light of some of the recent reports from Azerbaijan, Egypt and Crimea. I
3:36:31 > 3:36:42visited Azerbaijan many, many times and in particular, Baku and Ganja,
3:36:42 > 3:36:48when I was a member of any advisory Council on youth, doing his work. I
3:36:48 > 3:36:52found the young people there are very tolerant, progressive, open
3:36:52 > 3:36:56looking and it is often young people that help create change in our
3:36:56 > 3:37:06society. It is worrying that the Government 's, these reports of
3:37:06 > 3:37:08Government crackdown, I remember racing reports of Government
3:37:08 > 3:37:15crackdown on Azerbaijan in 2006 at one of my first visit there. So, it
3:37:15 > 3:37:18is reassuring to have the comments from the Ambassador that we need
3:37:18 > 3:37:26more than just words and I'm sure my honourable friend will follow this
3:37:26 > 3:37:30up but we need more than warm words, we need concrete action from the
3:37:30 > 3:37:48Azeri Government. You've got also -- Youth are often the part of the
3:37:48 > 3:37:57population who suffer crackdowns. And that pop concerts, young people
3:37:57 > 3:38:01are disproportionately targeted. Targeted for flying a flag? I mean,
3:38:01 > 3:38:07really, it beggars belief. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, we cannot just be
3:38:07 > 3:38:12bystanders. They must be clear that we have a moral duty to speak out
3:38:12 > 3:38:19for human rights and human rights abuses. For, Madam Deputy Speaker,
3:38:19 > 3:38:25why is it that in so many countries there are laws against LGBT people?
3:38:25 > 3:38:34Why, in India, is the penal code 3707A? Why in Jamaica, Section and
3:38:34 > 3:38:4477? It comes from 1861, that state may give us a clue. And in
3:38:44 > 3:38:48Singapore, the penal code 377, the exact same number of the penal code
3:38:48 > 3:38:56in India? Why? Because of course they were laws imposed by British
3:38:56 > 3:39:02colonial rule and British imperialism. It was the Imperial law
3:39:02 > 3:39:05combined by our imposition of imperial Christian religion of the
3:39:05 > 3:39:12time, expressed by an imperial English language that enforced
3:39:12 > 3:39:18homophobia in so many of our Commonwealth countries that still
3:39:18 > 3:39:23exist today. Often, against the practices and they will of the local
3:39:23 > 3:39:31historical narrative in those countries. Madam Deputy Speaker,
3:39:31 > 3:39:36study after study shows that it is former British colonies that are
3:39:36 > 3:39:41more likely to criminalise homosexual acts and more likely than
3:39:41 > 3:39:50any other former colonial state or former state that was always
3:39:50 > 3:39:56independent. 57% of state criminalising homosexuality are from
3:39:56 > 3:40:03a British colonial background. I will give way.You have raised a lot
3:40:03 > 3:40:06of historic points but would you not agree that now is the opportunity to
3:40:06 > 3:40:09use some of our long-standing relationships with these countries
3:40:09 > 3:40:14to improve those LGBT rights and follow our good example?That is
3:40:14 > 3:40:18exactly what I am coming onto. And I am coming on to that because what I
3:40:18 > 3:40:23am trying to say is that it is our duty because we read them once,
3:40:23 > 3:40:27historically, that actually imposed some of these laws, to now speak up.
3:40:27 > 3:40:32We cannot just wash our hands I think we're anti-colonialists now,
3:40:32 > 3:40:36we will just let you get on with it. We have a duty actually to be
3:40:36 > 3:40:42proactive in the response. I think we will agree on this, 70% of
3:40:42 > 3:40:46Commonwealth countries have some sort of criminalisation of
3:40:46 > 3:40:59homosexual acts and of course, we have next year in this country to
3:40:59 > 3:41:11ensure we are leading the way. I can facts was at the Chogham event in
3:41:11 > 3:41:16Sri Lanka for the youth Forum and what was very interesting in both
3:41:16 > 3:41:21those respects, the computer had an interesting and detailed discussion
3:41:21 > 3:41:25around anti-LGBT discrimination. In the discussion, when it was opened
3:41:25 > 3:41:31in the open ten array, it was touch and go whether we would pass some of
3:41:31 > 3:41:36the anti-LGBT discrimination closes we were trying to get forward in the
3:41:36 > 3:41:42declaration. When we asked for it to go to a secret ballot, it passed
3:41:42 > 3:41:47overwhelmingly. When I asked young people from Commonwealth countries
3:41:47 > 3:41:54by the change, later on, they said, because actually, we are afraid of
3:41:54 > 3:42:00our elders, we are afraid of often more established forces in our
3:42:00 > 3:42:03countries but we, our friends, colleagues, other young people in
3:42:03 > 3:42:10the country, do not see this as an issue, we do not see LGBT people as
3:42:10 > 3:42:19a problem, we actually see them as a equal and should have their human
3:42:19 > 3:42:25rights respected. I think that is why it is so important that DFID and
3:42:25 > 3:42:30the Foreign Office should continue to support former Commonwealth and
3:42:30 > 3:42:33other countries around the world in being able to put forward that
3:42:33 > 3:42:37argument. Because our role is not just to go into these countries and
3:42:37 > 3:42:42said our old penal code was wrong, reverse it. Our role is to stand
3:42:42 > 3:42:47shoulder to shoulder with other LGBT activists, brothers and sisters,
3:42:47 > 3:42:53around the world and to support them. That is why it is important
3:42:53 > 3:42:59and my honourable friend mentioned earlier, embassies which have small
3:42:59 > 3:43:05pots of cash to be able to support groups on the ground, that is why it
3:43:05 > 3:43:09is so important that Ambassador? No they will get the backing of the FC
3:43:09 > 3:43:15and if they put their neck out on the line, on the ground to support
3:43:15 > 3:43:21local LGBT groups. I was in Uganda earlier in the year, speaking to
3:43:21 > 3:43:25some of the LGBT groups there and they're very thankful of the ongoing
3:43:25 > 3:43:30support that our High Commission offers them. One thing they do say
3:43:30 > 3:43:34is that when the High Commissioner changes, sometimes you get to the
3:43:34 > 3:43:40change in wind, a slight different direction, and that needs to be
3:43:40 > 3:43:45something we are concerned about and the FCO needs to give clear
3:43:45 > 3:43:48guidelines to all ambassadors and High Commissioner is to make sure
3:43:48 > 3:44:00they know we have their back. I will wrap up by saying, we have now an
3:44:00 > 3:44:04opportunity to push at Chogham but also at the UN to support people on
3:44:04 > 3:44:08the ground and we must not those opportunities go whilst also
3:44:08 > 3:44:15speaking up against countries that do breach human rights.When we're
3:44:15 > 3:44:18talking about the abuses around the world that we have been, it is best
3:44:18 > 3:44:24to speak with a sense of humility of the challenges we still face on
3:44:24 > 3:44:28homophobia in our country. In Brighton and Hove, which I am proud
3:44:28 > 3:44:33to represent as one of the three MPs, in May last year we sigh savage
3:44:33 > 3:44:39homophobic attack against two young people, both visitors to the city
3:44:39 > 3:44:44who were savagely attacked in May last year. We have also seen just
3:44:44 > 3:44:47this week how somebody who previously coming to this place but
3:44:47 > 3:44:50still ended up as a Member of Parliament in this place, used a
3:44:50 > 3:44:55type of homophobic language in his past that was really quite extreme
3:44:55 > 3:45:00and offensive. He ended up as a Member of Parliament in this
3:45:00 > 3:45:03Parliament, being elected in this year. But there are three things
3:45:03 > 3:45:07about the response to both of these cases but I think sets us apart the
3:45:07 > 3:45:12country from those we are talking about and are aiming to tackle in
3:45:12 > 3:45:17this debate. The first, in the case of the two men assaulted in
3:45:17 > 3:45:22Brighton, the men who did assault these two where convicted, arrested
3:45:22 > 3:45:27and are currently serving a five-year custodial sentence. The
3:45:27 > 3:45:32state was on the victims' side. But in other countries, from Russia to
3:45:32 > 3:45:36Uganda, the police and judiciary are often the ones carrying out the
3:45:36 > 3:45:39homophobia in the first place, whether through violence or use of
3:45:39 > 3:45:43laws which are homophobic. They are not protecting the citizens they
3:45:43 > 3:45:48should be. Secondly, after the assaults in Brighton that left those
3:45:48 > 3:45:53men injured, one with both eye sockets broken and cheekbones
3:45:53 > 3:45:58broken, his nose broken, he said the following. I hope that what happens
3:45:58 > 3:46:01to me reminds people that discrimination of any kind is not
3:46:01 > 3:46:05acceptable and we need to challenge it when it does. Whenever it happens
3:46:05 > 3:46:11whenever we see it. No one should live their life in clear and I would
3:46:11 > 3:46:15be the first to urge people to be themselves, to walk out the door
3:46:15 > 3:46:21each day with their heads held high. I know that these words coming from
3:46:21 > 3:46:25a 22-year-old, who is a survivor of a victim of hate crime, will be
3:46:25 > 3:46:28inspiring to members across the House. But this debate concerns
3:46:28 > 3:46:31people who live in countries where victims cannot hold their heads
3:46:31 > 3:46:36high.
3:46:36 > 3:46:41Because they suffer the fear of arrest, torture or execution. Their
3:46:41 > 3:46:46own states will not protect them, so that is why we as a country have too
3:46:46 > 3:46:50deliver some of the change their own states are incapable of delivering
3:46:50 > 3:46:56themselves. Thirdly, in the recent incidents of the appalling words
3:46:56 > 3:47:00used by the member for Sheffield Hallam to describe gay people, it is
3:47:00 > 3:47:05noticeable that both Parliament and the media were convulsed by the
3:47:05 > 3:47:08rough ocean of his words and the sentiment behind them, even though
3:47:08 > 3:47:16they were in his distant past. It is right he has been suspended from the
3:47:16 > 3:47:22Labour Party, but in parliaments in Tanzania, Chechnya, Russia and to
3:47:22 > 3:47:24many in Africa, offensive homophobic rhetoric is not challenged but has
3:47:24 > 3:47:32become the norm. Reading the excellent report on global LGBT
3:47:32 > 3:47:37rights, it makes for sobering reading. The work put into it by
3:47:37 > 3:47:39parliamentarians and campaigning organisations was intense, immense,
3:47:39 > 3:47:45but really worth it. I was particularly struck by the
3:47:45 > 3:47:49legislative assault on same-sex relationships by the state in Uganda
3:47:49 > 3:47:54and Nigeria. Legislation was introduced in both countries which
3:47:54 > 3:47:58strengthened the penalties for same-sex activity, and drastically
3:47:58 > 3:48:00limited the ability of LGBT people to organise in defence of their
3:48:00 > 3:48:07rights. Nigeria's same-sex marriage prohibitions act has provisions in
3:48:07 > 3:48:11it that criminalise the formation, operation and support of gay clubs,
3:48:11 > 3:48:16societies and organisations, with sentences of up to ten years
3:48:16 > 3:48:21imprisonment. And the curtailment of the ability of LGBT communities to
3:48:21 > 3:48:25organise themselves, to receive funds and to provide services to and
3:48:25 > 3:48:30allocate on behalf of LGBT people goes beyond mere homophobia. It is a
3:48:30 > 3:48:34direct assault on civil Society itself. In terms of finding ways to
3:48:34 > 3:48:38deliver change in these countries, it is the erosion of civil society
3:48:38 > 3:48:43that worries me most. In Britain, the transformation from a country
3:48:43 > 3:48:48with section 28 on statute to one of equal rights and gay marriage was
3:48:48 > 3:48:52not conceived and led and delivered solely within the four walls of this
3:48:52 > 3:48:57Parliament. Most of the leadership came from outside, from within our
3:48:57 > 3:49:01communities and by how remarkable voluntary and campaigning sectors.
3:49:01 > 3:49:05It was one of the best examples of civil society and legislators
3:49:05 > 3:49:08working together, almost in partnership, to deliver positive
3:49:08 > 3:49:13social change. It is notable that in many of the countries we have talked
3:49:13 > 3:49:17about today, they have suffered and erosion and curtailment of wider
3:49:17 > 3:49:20civil rights first, and as part of this programme of eroding the rights
3:49:20 > 3:49:27of gay people. This makes more people vulnerable to abuse, both
3:49:27 > 3:49:30state-sponsored, and from within the institutions of the family and
3:49:30 > 3:49:35community that surround them. I urge ministers to act unrelentingly in
3:49:35 > 3:49:39this area, to support lawyers trying to challenge abuse by using the
3:49:39 > 3:49:46expertise and resources of the Department of Justice also, to train
3:49:46 > 3:49:50our ambassadors appropriately in the issue and to ensure this is a
3:49:50 > 3:49:55priority of our whole government. And to use our position in every
3:49:55 > 3:49:59multinational and multilateral body, from the UN to the Commonwealth, to
3:49:59 > 3:50:03the monetary and banking organisations, too, to make sure
3:50:03 > 3:50:06that any country who chooses to repress rather than support people
3:50:06 > 3:50:11who want the basic human right to be gay and to be happy, that Britain is
3:50:11 > 3:50:18always on their side. I think we have had an excellent
3:50:18 > 3:50:23debate this afternoon and I would particularly like to pay tribute to
3:50:23 > 3:50:26the honourable member and his All Party Parliamentary Group on Iran
3:50:26 > 3:50:28LGBT global rights for being instrumental in securing this
3:50:28 > 3:50:36debate. Madam Deputy Speaker, I suggest the litmus test of how much
3:50:36 > 3:50:41we care in the UK about global LGBT rights is how we treat LGBT plus
3:50:41 > 3:50:45people who come to the UK from countries where they have been
3:50:45 > 3:50:51persecuted, seeking sanctuary. Sadly, our record on that is not all
3:50:51 > 3:50:56that it might be. Yesterday at Prime Minister's Questions I raised with
3:50:56 > 3:50:59the Prime Minister guidance recently put out by the Home Office, put out
3:50:59 > 3:51:05earlier this year, new Home Office guidance on Afghanistan suggesting
3:51:05 > 3:51:09that gay asylum seekers can return to Afghanistan if they pretend to be
3:51:09 > 3:51:15straight. This guidance flies in the face of the Supreme Court decision
3:51:15 > 3:51:23which my honourable friend raised earlier. I was disappointed that
3:51:23 > 3:51:27when I sought an undertaking from the Prime Minister that the Home
3:51:27 > 3:51:30Office would stop this practice of deporting LGBT plus people to
3:51:30 > 3:51:35Afghanistan with the instruction they pretend to be straight, she was
3:51:35 > 3:51:40not able to give me that undertaking on the spot. If she wants to go to
3:51:40 > 3:51:44the pink News awards and be lauded as an advocate of LGBT rights, she
3:51:44 > 3:51:47should know what is going on in her government, and she did not seem
3:51:47 > 3:51:52too. I am glad the Home Secretary has approached me and said she will
3:51:52 > 3:51:57look into the issue carefully. There was also the issue of the fact that
3:51:57 > 3:52:01in this country, one of the few countries in Europe that detain
3:52:01 > 3:52:09people who have come here as LGBT asylum seekers. On this very day a
3:52:09 > 3:52:13year ago, Stonewall and the UK lesbian and Gay immigration group,
3:52:13 > 3:52:18and I would like to pay tribute to them in assisting me to prepare my
3:52:18 > 3:52:24short speech today, on this very day a era ago, they produced a report
3:52:24 > 3:52:28called no safe refuge, which detailed the experiences of asylum
3:52:28 > 3:52:32seekers in detention in this country, people who have come to
3:52:32 > 3:52:35these countries of the United Kingdom seeking sanctuary from the
3:52:35 > 3:52:39countries we have been discussing today, and who have been held in UK
3:52:39 > 3:52:43detention centres. They found that in those detention centres, people
3:52:43 > 3:52:48have been asked about their past and have had bad experiences, homophobic
3:52:48 > 3:52:52experiences with staff and other asylum seekers, and their physical
3:52:52 > 3:52:55and emotional well-being has been affected in detention, and also
3:52:55 > 3:53:03their access to health and legal services. The report exposed many
3:53:03 > 3:53:07lapses in standards, with staff often ill-equipped to deal with LGBT
3:53:07 > 3:53:11people. Many of these people interviewed recounted shocking
3:53:11 > 3:53:18instances of homophobia at every level of our system, from guards,
3:53:18 > 3:53:21other detainees, interpreters and even legal representatives. So we
3:53:21 > 3:53:26really need to address the issue of how we treat people who come to the
3:53:26 > 3:53:29UK looking for sanctuary, fleeing persecution in other countries
3:53:29 > 3:53:34because they are LGBT plus. My office spoke with Paul Delaine this
3:53:34 > 3:53:40morning, the executive director at UK LG Iggy. He told me that one year
3:53:40 > 3:53:47since the publication of this report into the treatment of LGBT asylum
3:53:47 > 3:53:50seekers in detention, he is still awaiting a formal response from the
3:53:50 > 3:53:57government. So if we want to promote ourselves in the United Kingdom as
3:53:57 > 3:54:00supportive of LGBT plus rights, and if we want to stand here and
3:54:00 > 3:54:05criticise other countries who are not, we must, cross-party, address
3:54:05 > 3:54:11the issue of the disgraceful treatment some LGBT plus asylum
3:54:11 > 3:54:16seekers and refugees raise, receive in the United Kingdom, and I hope
3:54:16 > 3:54:19the minister responding to the debate will note what I have said
3:54:19 > 3:54:26and pass it on to the relevant department. It simply will not do to
3:54:26 > 3:54:29pose as great defenders of LGBTI plus rights when we treat people who
3:54:29 > 3:54:38come to this country seeking sanctuary so badly.Thank you, Madam
3:54:38 > 3:54:42Deputy Speaker. I want to thank the honourable member for securing this
3:54:42 > 3:54:50important debate. It has been a very good and important discussion. We
3:54:50 > 3:54:52have heard important and moving contributions from all sides of the
3:54:52 > 3:55:00house. The member for Bristol East paid tribute activists around the
3:55:00 > 3:55:03world who have been murdered and talked about our leveraging our
3:55:03 > 3:55:09country that we have with trade talks post Brexit. The member for
3:55:09 > 3:55:13Ribble Valley talked about gay players in football. I do think the
3:55:13 > 3:55:18FA have to change considerably before we see that happen. And the
3:55:18 > 3:55:22member from Liverpool and West Derby talked about sustainable development
3:55:22 > 3:55:26goals and paid tribute to trade unions in their role in LGBT rights.
3:55:26 > 3:55:30And the member for Reigate gave a moving account of his lived
3:55:30 > 3:55:37experience of coming out. Madam Deputy Speaker, tragically, of the
3:55:37 > 3:55:44LGBT people killed in the Americas in 2013-2014, 46% were Transworld
3:55:44 > 3:55:51in. Also, more than 2000 transgender and gender diverse people were
3:55:51 > 3:55:56murdered in 65 countries between 2008-2015, according to the
3:55:56 > 3:56:04trans-murder monitoring project. This is tragic. Although, Madam
3:56:04 > 3:56:08Deputy Speaker, Labour has led the way off and on LGBT plus rights, as
3:56:08 > 3:56:13we speak about the global situation, as has been said just now, it is
3:56:13 > 3:56:18important that in the UK we get our own house in order. And people
3:56:18 > 3:56:24fleeing prosecution often end up on our shores. Therefore, how we treat
3:56:24 > 3:56:28people fleeing violence, persecution and death is vital and important in
3:56:28 > 3:56:34this battlefield human rights. Madam Deputy Speaker, as the honourable
3:56:34 > 3:56:40member for Edinburgh South West, I was disappointed to read the
3:56:40 > 3:56:44Guardian article in particular were deported gay Afghans were told to
3:56:44 > 3:56:47pretend to be straight. Yesterday the Prime Minister on the floor of
3:56:47 > 3:56:51the house said that it was her government that changed the walls on
3:56:51 > 3:56:54asylum seekers who faced persecution in their home of origin because of
3:56:54 > 3:57:02their identity. -- changed the rules. This is true, because in June
3:57:02 > 3:57:072010, the Supreme Court found it was not lawful for the Home Office to
3:57:07 > 3:57:10apply a reasonably tolerable test to determining whether an individual
3:57:10 > 3:57:14could avoid the risk of future persecution by concealing their
3:57:14 > 3:57:19sexual identity in their country of origin. But Madam Deputy Speaker,
3:57:19 > 3:57:22although the Coalition Government welcomed the decision, this
3:57:22 > 3:57:25government is still sending out letters like this one. The Home
3:57:25 > 3:57:34Office sent this to a frightened LGBT plus person. " You claim to
3:57:34 > 3:57:37have a well founded fear of persecution in Bangladesh on the
3:57:37 > 3:57:41basis of sexual orientation. I have considered your claim on the
3:57:41 > 3:57:45Secretary of State. You have not shown there are substantial grounds
3:57:45 > 3:57:51for believing you face a real risk of suffering serious harm. It
3:57:51 > 3:58:00technologies that Bangladesh makes homosexuality unlawful,"
3:58:00 > 3:58:01technologies that Bangladesh makes homosexuality unlawful,". I am
3:58:01 > 3:58:05ashamed to read this out, but it ends with "It is considered that you
3:58:05 > 3:58:11do not have such a high profile in Bangladesh". Madam Deputy Speaker, I
3:58:11 > 3:58:17am stunned by that, shocked, and I don't know what it means in its
3:58:17 > 3:58:21entirety. But our asylum policy should not be based on whether
3:58:21 > 3:58:24someone has a high profile, or whether they have money, or anything
3:58:24 > 3:58:28else but the laws of our country applied equally, fairly and
3:58:28 > 3:58:34compassionately. Madam Deputy Speaker, there is an garment
3:58:34 > 3:58:39referred to as the Anne Frank principle will stop Lord Justice
3:58:39 > 3:58:43Peel stated, it would be no defence to a claim that Al Frank paced well
3:58:43 > 3:58:50funded fear of persecution in 1942. To say she was safe in a comfortable
3:58:50 > 3:58:54attic, and she left the attic, a human activity, could reasonably be
3:58:54 > 3:58:57expected to enjoy her Jewish identity, would have led to her
3:58:57 > 3:59:03persecution. Refugee status cannot be denied by expecting a person to
3:59:03 > 3:59:06conceal aspects of identity, or suppress behaviour the person should
3:59:06 > 3:59:12be allowed to express. This government action puts them at odds
3:59:12 > 3:59:17with the United Nations guidelines on refugees, United born free and
3:59:17 > 3:59:22equal report 2012, whose five pillars are, protect, prevent,
3:59:22 > 3:59:28repeal, prohibit and safeguard. Despite positive developments in
3:59:28 > 3:59:32most countries, including ours, there remains a lack of
3:59:32 > 3:59:36comprehensive policies to address rights violations against LGBT plus
3:59:36 > 3:59:42and intersex people. There is a concern that cases that have already
3:59:42 > 3:59:48reached the appeal rights exhausted stage are not that needs to be
3:59:48 > 3:59:54revisited. I hope the Minister will address this to the house. In
3:59:54 > 3:59:58regards to domestic policies, it is necessary, I know, to always talk
3:59:58 > 4:00:03about what a Labour government will do all in LGBT plus rights. And I
4:00:03 > 4:00:08refer to our manifesto at this point. A Labour government will
4:00:08 > 4:00:11reform the gender recognition act and equality Act 2010 as an intent
4:00:11 > 4:00:15to ensure they protect trans people in changing the protected
4:00:15 > 4:00:19characteristics of gender assignment to gender identity. A Labour
4:00:19 > 4:00:22government will bring the law on LGBT hate crimes into line with hate
4:00:22 > 4:00:27crimes based on race, faith and making them aggravated offences. We
4:00:27 > 4:00:31will tackle bullying of LGBT young people and Labour will ensure that
4:00:31 > 4:00:34all teachers and health and social workers receive initial and ongoing
4:00:34 > 4:00:39training. The member for Reigate will be interested that a Labour
4:00:39 > 4:00:46government will ensure that NHS England completes the trial
4:00:46 > 4:00:49programme provided as quickly as possible and fully roll out the
4:00:49 > 4:00:55treatment to high-risk groups to reduce HIV-infected. And Labour will
4:00:55 > 4:00:59appoint a dedicated global ambassadors for women's rights, LGBT
4:00:59 > 4:01:03plus rights and religious freedoms, to fight discrimination and promote
4:01:03 > 4:01:09equality globally. Madam Deputy Speaker, I conclude, three months
4:01:09 > 4:01:13ago the Prime Minister said that her own party's record on LGBT rights,
4:01:13 > 4:01:17she said this. I act knowledge where we have been wrong on these issues
4:01:17 > 4:01:21in the past. There will be, justifiably, scepticism about the
4:01:21 > 4:01:25positions taken and post carts through the years by the
4:01:25 > 4:01:30Conservative government, party and me. -- and votes cast. I would like
4:01:30 > 4:01:34to help the Prime Minister and the government. This has been a
4:01:34 > 4:01:38conciliatory debate today. I would like to help to ease this
4:01:38 > 4:01:42scepticism. The government now has a close working relationship with the
4:01:42 > 4:01:48DUP. Will the Minister, when he rises to his feet, make clear to the
4:01:48 > 4:01:50house that he will help legalise same-sex marriage in Northern
4:01:50 > 4:01:57Ireland? Madam Deputy Speaker, human rights are important to all humans.
4:01:57 > 4:02:04Let's lead the way in the UK.
4:02:04 > 4:02:08Thank you very much. Can I start by congratulating my right honourable
4:02:08 > 4:02:15friend for securing this debate and a very powerful opening Speech. As
4:02:15 > 4:02:21the chair of the parliamentary group, he knows how important it is
4:02:21 > 4:02:27that we tackle widespread violence and discrimination against LGBT
4:02:27 > 4:02:31people around the world and I pay tribute to him for his energy and
4:02:31 > 4:02:37commitment that he gives to this cause. This has been an excellent
4:02:37 > 4:02:41debate with many powerful and moving speeches, including by the member
4:02:41 > 4:02:46for Milton Keynes South and four Ochil and South Perthshire and the
4:02:46 > 4:02:55honourable member for Livingston and for Hove. We are marking 50 years
4:02:55 > 4:02:58since the partial decriminalisation of, sexuality and England and Wales
4:02:58 > 4:03:03and over the past 50 years, this country has made considerable
4:03:03 > 4:03:07progress, including introducing same-sex marriage in 2013,
4:03:07 > 4:03:13equalising gay age of consent and introducing the gender recognition
4:03:13 > 4:03:18act in 2004. The effect of successive governments efforts in
4:03:18 > 4:03:22recent decades means the UK has one of the strongest legislative
4:03:22 > 4:03:28frameworks in the world for LGBT people. Yet, we also know that LGBT
4:03:28 > 4:03:31people still experience discrimination in their day-to-day
4:03:31 > 4:03:34lives. The Government is committed to eliminating or prejudice and
4:03:34 > 4:03:41discrimination against LGBT people in this country wherever its last
4:03:41 > 4:03:47vestiges remain. As has been pointed out, it begins in school, it is
4:03:47 > 4:03:52important that schools are truly inclusive for LGBT pupils and the
4:03:52 > 4:03:56Government wants to tackle the policing but sadly happens all too
4:03:56 > 4:04:00often and this is why we're running £80 million anti-bullying programme
4:04:00 > 4:04:08to tackle bullying. Young people should feel safe to be open at
4:04:08 > 4:04:13school, so they can focus on their studies. We announced in July. I
4:04:13 > 4:04:20give way.I would seek clarity in relation to the issue of sex
4:04:20 > 4:04:24education, which the Government and making compulsory and I welcome
4:04:24 > 4:04:28that. Particularly what he thinks should be done in terms of LGBT
4:04:28 > 4:04:32rights within that but also within faith schools, where of course they
4:04:32 > 4:04:39have a different approach to that issue.We will be consulting on the
4:04:39 > 4:04:44content of RSC and relationships education shortly but we didn't want
4:04:44 > 4:04:48to ensure it is LGBT inclusive. We announced in July that the
4:04:48 > 4:04:53Government wants to consult on the reform of the gender recognition act
4:04:53 > 4:04:58to ensure we provide the best support for transgender people. We
4:04:58 > 4:05:03know that many trans people now find the focus on medical checks in the
4:05:03 > 4:05:07gender recognition process very intrusive and stigmatising. In July,
4:05:07 > 4:05:11the Government launched a national LGBT survey to help us understand
4:05:11 > 4:05:14the experiences of LGBT people in Britain. This survey closed earlier
4:05:14 > 4:05:18this month and the response we received to the survey was
4:05:18 > 4:05:24unprecedented. With well over 100,000 responses, which makes it
4:05:24 > 4:05:28one of the largest surveys of its kind in the world and it will be
4:05:28 > 4:05:32hugely important in policy development on LGBT issues. One of
4:05:32 > 4:05:41the areas of focus for the LGBT group was on LGBT asylum seekers,
4:05:41 > 4:05:49and issue also raised by another member. We are focusing on building
4:05:49 > 4:05:53an inclusive society and an important element of this is
4:05:53 > 4:05:57ensuring Britain is a safe haven for those who may be experiencing
4:05:57 > 4:06:03persecution and abuse because they are LGBT. We must make sure that
4:06:03 > 4:06:06LGBT people seeking to escape extreme discrimination are safe in
4:06:06 > 4:06:12this country whilst their claims are being processed. That is why in
4:06:12 > 4:06:15September, the Government introduced the adult at risk concept into
4:06:15 > 4:06:19decision-making on immigration. In this concept acts on the assumption
4:06:19 > 4:06:23of vulnerable people who may be at risk of particular harm in detention
4:06:23 > 4:06:27should not be detained. And then builds on an existing legal
4:06:27 > 4:06:31framework. We have worked closely with organisations such as
4:06:31 > 4:06:43Stonewall, the UK Lesbian and Gay immigration group in the
4:06:44 > 4:06:46UK High Commissioner for refugees to develop guidance and training for
4:06:46 > 4:06:49staff in detention centres. We continue to liaise with these groups
4:06:49 > 4:06:51to consider what further improvements can be made. As a world
4:06:51 > 4:06:54leader on LGBT quality, this country has a moral duty to work to improve
4:06:54 > 4:06:58the lives of LGBT people living in other countries. It is sadly the
4:06:58 > 4:07:01case that homosexuality is still illegal in 72 countries and
4:07:01 > 4:07:08punishable by death in eight, this Government remains committed to
4:07:08 > 4:07:11working with like-minded countries and with equal rights coalition of
4:07:11 > 4:07:14which the UK is a founding member, to stand up for LGBT rights
4:07:14 > 4:07:19internationally. At the highest levels of Government, we are
4:07:19 > 4:07:23challenging those who inflict or allow discrimination against LGBT
4:07:23 > 4:07:27people and we urge those countries which continued to criminalise
4:07:27 > 4:07:31same-sex relationships, to take steps towards decriminalisation and
4:07:31 > 4:07:36we urge all countries to ensure they have legislation that protects LGBT
4:07:36 > 4:07:40people from all forms of discrimination. Madame Deputy
4:07:40 > 4:07:44Speaker, my right hon friend, the member for Aaron Doran South Downs,
4:07:44 > 4:07:49raised the issue of funding of local LGBT groups internationally. We have
4:07:49 > 4:07:56committed over £1.6 million from the Magna Carta fund for human rights
4:07:56 > 4:07:59and democracy to project is working to promote and protect LGBT rights
4:07:59 > 4:08:04and this includes £350,000 for the UN free and equal campaign. And
4:08:04 > 4:08:09lastly, the UK supported the establishment of the United
4:08:09 > 4:08:13Nations's first ever independent expert on sexual orientation and
4:08:13 > 4:08:17gender identity and we vigorously defended his mandate when it was
4:08:17 > 4:08:21challenged by other states. We truly regret the resignation of the
4:08:21 > 4:08:26independent expert due to ill-health and commend the professor for his
4:08:26 > 4:08:31work. It is vital that a successor be found quickly to continue this
4:08:31 > 4:08:36important work that we shall continue to support this mandate.
4:08:36 > 4:08:42The member for Ribble Valley and also for Eastleigh raised the issue
4:08:42 > 4:08:46of rainbow flags. We are proud to fly the rainbow flag on our
4:08:46 > 4:08:50buildings, both at home and abroad, for a key events in the LGBT
4:08:50 > 4:08:58calendar, like the gay pride events. And we work closely to ensure that
4:08:58 > 4:09:01flags were flown around the world and will continue to do so and I
4:09:01 > 4:09:06hope the flag will be flown in as many countries as possible. I won't
4:09:06 > 4:09:11give way, this is running out of time. Turning to the Commonwealth,
4:09:11 > 4:09:15it is currently the case that 36 out of 52 Commonwealth countries still
4:09:15 > 4:09:19criminalise all sexuality. The UK Government has a special duty and
4:09:19 > 4:09:22responsibility to help change hearts and minds and our fellow, most
4:09:22 > 4:09:26countries. Next April, we host the Commonwealth summit in London and
4:09:26 > 4:09:29Windsor and will be using this opportunity to make sure we discuss
4:09:29 > 4:09:34the important issue of LGBT equality in the Commonwealth. Many members
4:09:34 > 4:09:42raised during this debate concerns about particular countries and the
4:09:42 > 4:09:45tragic difficulties faced by LGBT people in countries around the
4:09:45 > 4:09:50world. This year, there have been numerous reports regarding the
4:09:50 > 4:09:55horrific situation in Chechnya for LGBT people, the UK was amongst the
4:09:55 > 4:10:00first countries to express concern about the persecution of LGBT people
4:10:00 > 4:10:05in Chechnya and we continue to lobby the Russian Government to properly
4:10:05 > 4:10:10investigate and to hold perpetrators to account. On the 13th of April,
4:10:10 > 4:10:13the Foreign Secretary co-signed a letter to Russian Foreign Minister
4:10:13 > 4:10:18Sergei Lavrov, common in the Russian Government to investigate and ensure
4:10:18 > 4:10:21the safety of journalists and activists investigating these
4:10:21 > 4:10:26abuses. Officials at our embassy in Moscow have also raised concerns
4:10:26 > 4:10:29that a senior level with the Russian Ministry of foreign affairs. We're
4:10:29 > 4:10:35also concerned about the recent crackdown on LGBT in Egypt. The
4:10:35 > 4:10:39Egyptian Government is well aware of our position on LGBT rights and we
4:10:39 > 4:10:43have called on the Government of Egypt to uphold and protect the
4:10:43 > 4:10:46rights of all minorities in the country. We are concerned about
4:10:46 > 4:10:52reports that suggest that some LGBT people detained in Egypt are being
4:10:52 > 4:10:56tortured and we continue to monitor human rights in Egypt and continue
4:10:56 > 4:11:06to urge the Government to urge the human rights areas of its own
4:11:06 > 4:11:16constitution. -- to implement the human rights areas. Also, in
4:11:16 > 4:11:20Azerbaijan, there have been arrests and detentions, and we are
4:11:20 > 4:11:23monitoring human rights in that country and we regularly pressed the
4:11:23 > 4:11:26Azeri Government to meet its international obligations to protect
4:11:26 > 4:11:31the rights of all its citizens, including those who are LGBT.
4:11:31 > 4:11:34Officials from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office have raised
4:11:34 > 4:11:38specific reports with the Government of Azerbaijan and we have received
4:11:38 > 4:11:45assurances that those arrested have now been released. The honourable
4:11:45 > 4:11:48member for Liverpool West Derby raised concerns about Tanzania and
4:11:48 > 4:11:54we are again very concerned by increased anti-homosexual rhetoric
4:11:54 > 4:11:59and deteriorating environment for LGBT people in Tanzania. Our High
4:11:59 > 4:12:02Commission along with partners and international LGBT organisations in
4:12:02 > 4:12:06Dar es Salaam are closely monitoring the situation and is a close friend
4:12:06 > 4:12:10and partner of Tanzania, we have conversations about this issue and
4:12:10 > 4:12:14many other human rights issues with the Government. My honourable
4:12:14 > 4:12:21friend, the member for Reigate, raised the issue of prep. NHS
4:12:21 > 4:12:26England and Public Health England announced last year that up to £10
4:12:26 > 4:12:31million is to be made available to run a three-year trial for prep to
4:12:31 > 4:12:35answer outstanding questions about future access and implementation of
4:12:35 > 4:12:39this drug. The trial is aiming to establish the most effective way to
4:12:39 > 4:12:42distribute the drug to have the greatest impact on reducing the
4:12:42 > 4:12:51spread of HIV. The honourable member for Bristol East raised the issue of
4:12:51 > 4:12:55the business of human rights action plan. Last year, the Government
4:12:55 > 4:13:00published guidance for businesses to implement the UN guiding principles
4:13:00 > 4:13:03on business and human rights and the Saky reaffirms the UK's commitment
4:13:03 > 4:13:11to the implementation of the UN's guiding principles. This has been a
4:13:11 > 4:13:17hugely important debates, sending the united message from this
4:13:17 > 4:13:21Parliament to all those countries that criminalise being LGBT to take
4:13:21 > 4:13:26steps towards decriminalisation, to be criminalise something that is
4:13:26 > 4:13:38simply a part of an individual nature.During the course of this
4:13:38 > 4:13:42debate, I learned that 30 lawyers and activists in Tanzania had just
4:13:42 > 4:13:48been released on bail, they had been arrested last week and charged with
4:13:48 > 4:13:55the so-called crime promoting sexuality. This crime does not exist
4:13:55 > 4:14:00under Tanzania's penal code. They were released on bail and then
4:14:00 > 4:14:06rearrested. Their so-called crime was simply to challenge the
4:14:06 > 4:14:13country's circuitry than on HIV care centres and during the course of
4:14:13 > 4:14:18their detention in Dar es Salaam, the police supplied to the courts in
4:14:18 > 4:14:25Tanzania to undertake on these individuals forced medical
4:14:25 > 4:14:31examinations to establish whether or not they were homosexual.
4:14:31 > 4:14:35Fortunately, the courts denied that application. If ever there were a
4:14:35 > 4:14:41more sober reminder of what is happening around the world in
4:14:41 > 4:14:45countries which as my right honourable friend, the minister, has
4:14:45 > 4:14:50just said, are friends of our own country, which are members of the
4:14:50 > 4:14:53Commonwealth, countries that have signed up to UN and Commonwealth
4:14:53 > 4:15:00charter commitments, it was this example. It has been right across
4:15:00 > 4:15:03this house, on an entirely nonpartisan basis, honourable
4:15:03 > 4:15:10members from all have spoken out against these terrible abuses of
4:15:10 > 4:15:16LGBT rights, which are abuses of human rights. And we have sent a
4:15:16 > 4:15:20signal today and I'm grateful that both Her Majesty's opposition and
4:15:20 > 4:15:25Government have reinforced that signal, that these abuses of LGBT
4:15:25 > 4:15:30rights cannot be tolerated and that we expect and look upon the
4:15:30 > 4:15:35authorities in these countries to uphold these universal commitments,
4:15:35 > 4:15:41to which every country has signed up. We should not be fearful of
4:15:41 > 4:15:46taking a stance on these issues because activists in these countries
4:15:46 > 4:15:53are looking to us, their friends and allies, to make such a stance and I
4:15:53 > 4:16:00am grateful to honourable members on all sites for doing so today. The
4:16:00 > 4:16:10question is that this house has considered a global LGBT rights, as
4:16:10 > 4:16:20many are of the opinion, say I. The ayes have it.
4:16:20 > 4:16:24I think we can take motions two and three on privilege and standards
4:16:24 > 4:16:35together.I beg to move.The question is as on the order paper. I
4:16:35 > 4:16:52think the ayes have it. The question is that a German. That
4:16:52 > 4:17:03this House do now adjourn.The notice advising that you were the
4:17:03 > 4:17:07Minister answering the last debate of the week was met with a groan. Is
4:17:07 > 4:17:14the Minister aware that the M25 junction ten is where the A3 and the
4:17:14 > 4:17:20M25 link? The traffic is such that it is probably the biggest
4:17:20 > 4:17:25interchange in the UK, with the highest accident record, I believe,
4:17:25 > 4:17:29and experiences frequent disruption and jams in both directions on the
4:17:29 > 4:17:36A3 as well as contributing to M25 jams. Delays for miles around. As
4:17:36 > 4:17:41the main link between the south-east and London the demand on the A3 and
4:17:41 > 4:17:44a junction is growing and will continue to do so. On the western
4:17:44 > 4:17:49border of the A3, just south of junction ten is the world-famous
4:17:49 > 4:17:54world or to cult in society gardens. To those without a compass, it is on
4:17:54 > 4:17:59the left of the A3, just before the M25, if you are driving towards
4:17:59 > 4:18:06London. Access, at the moment, is off the A3, directly, or if you are
4:18:06 > 4:18:11driving towards London, or coming in the opposite direction, near the
4:18:11 > 4:18:17roundabout. There is a slip road to the entrance and a similar slip road
4:18:17 > 4:18:22onto the Arfon three on exciting. It is adequate but not appreciably
4:18:22 > 4:18:27signposted. I am sure the Minister is -- aware of the importance of the
4:18:27 > 4:18:32gardens. It is the UK's centre of excellence for horticultural
4:18:32 > 4:18:38science, research and education. And I am not just meaning the
4:18:38 > 4:18:40world-class, high standard horticultural educational research
4:18:40 > 4:18:44it undertakes, but also the annual influx of about 18,000
4:18:44 > 4:18:50schoolchildren from over 450 schools. And then you add the 1.2
4:18:50 > 4:18:54million people of the general public who flood in annually. I suggest to
4:18:54 > 4:19:00the Minister if he is ever going to visit, visit and park your car early
4:19:00 > 4:19:05because you will walk for half a mile to get in. That is the demand.
4:19:05 > 4:19:09Hence, I must declare myself an interest, as most of my family
4:19:09 > 4:19:16belong to the RHS and visit regularly. The miniature insects are
4:19:16 > 4:19:22absolutely fascinated, as they tear around the garden and try not to
4:19:22 > 4:19:28fall into the pools and ponds. 240 acres of historic and horticultural
4:19:28 > 4:19:34delight. It employs 400 staff and has 250 volunteers. They are a third
4:19:34 > 4:19:41of the way through a £650 million investment development programme.
4:19:41 > 4:19:46£650 million for a charity in this country is some programme. This will
4:19:46 > 4:19:49lift the numbers of full-time jobs by 60 and they anticipate visitor
4:19:49 > 4:19:55numbers will lift to not far short of 1.5 million annually. This will
4:19:55 > 4:19:58bring became elated benefit impact locally over ten years to about 1
4:19:58 > 4:20:04billion. Because of its location, there is no realistic public
4:20:04 > 4:20:11transport and also, realistically, no prospect of it. As one drives or
4:20:11 > 4:20:16calls along the A3, one would be forgiven for not knowing the gardens
4:20:16 > 4:20:21are next to it. The gardens and ancient woodlands are buffered by a
4:20:21 > 4:20:26well planted shield with over 500 mature trees, many, if not most,
4:20:26 > 4:20:32over 100 years old. I accept major improvements to the junction are
4:20:32 > 4:20:37necessary. It is glaringly obvious. The RHS except this and highways
4:20:37 > 4:20:42England engineers have been working on plans to sort the problem out.
4:20:42 > 4:20:46The most likely plan they appear to favour, however, hits Wisley Gardens
4:20:46 > 4:20:52hard and dramatically. The buffer with those trees will go. The
4:20:52 > 4:20:56entrances and exits will be complicated and they will add about
4:20:56 > 4:21:047.5 miles to the round-trip per visitor car. This complicated
4:21:04 > 4:21:09entrance, we believe, will be a deterrence for visitors. Just as the
4:21:09 > 4:21:13investment is expected to increase, just as it is going to help fund the
4:21:13 > 4:21:18attraction, the deterrent will come in. The need for direct access and
4:21:18 > 4:21:24exit from the A3 is obvious. The effect on local traffic through
4:21:24 > 4:21:26villages and surrounding countryside will be significant if this perhaps
4:21:26 > 4:21:37preferred plan goes ahead. Indeed, there has been considerable
4:21:37 > 4:21:43discussion with highways England. They are still meeting the RHS, and
4:21:43 > 4:21:48it is very helpful. Indeed, highways England have stated to me they are
4:21:48 > 4:21:56not against the required south facing slip roads, which would make
4:21:56 > 4:22:00much of the problems. However, and this is where the crunch comes for
4:22:00 > 4:22:05the Minister, apparently this would be outside the perimeter is, the
4:22:05 > 4:22:11geographic perimeters of the scheme currently being looked at, namely
4:22:11 > 4:22:15the A3 road improvement scheme. The new funding would be required, but
4:22:15 > 4:22:22compared to the size of the previous programme, not great. It needs a
4:22:22 > 4:22:26business case. It would need further consultation with local authorities
4:22:26 > 4:22:31and perhaps landowners. It is a further problem, but it is a
4:22:31 > 4:22:35solution, and a solution that is going with the grain, rather than
4:22:35 > 4:22:39against it. A relatively small delayed to produce a sensible scheme
4:22:39 > 4:22:43is better than what I see as blundering on to look back in time
4:22:43 > 4:22:49and ask, why did we not do it right when we had a chance? I was going to
4:22:49 > 4:22:53ask the Minister if I could bring a couple of RHS representatives to his
4:22:53 > 4:22:58office. I have changed my mind. Better than that, I am inviting him
4:22:58 > 4:23:03to come to Wisley to actually see it. If necessary I will personally
4:23:03 > 4:23:07drive him from his office. Better still, as a minister in the
4:23:07 > 4:23:11Department for Transport, from the local station. We will arrange free
4:23:11 > 4:23:18entry, a short tour, a photo opportunity, cup of coffee. RHS
4:23:18 > 4:23:23barn. Actually, because it is an old charity of long-standing, we were
4:23:23 > 4:23:28actually get some Victoria cream sponge slice for him. A visit,
4:23:28 > 4:23:34seriously, is only -- the only way to get the problem in perspective.
4:23:34 > 4:23:39Looking at maps is not the same as looking at the trees. I want us to
4:23:39 > 4:23:43get it right. Right for generations to come over the next decades,
4:23:43 > 4:23:46running into the next century, bearing in mind that Wisley Gardens
4:23:46 > 4:23:51has been going for essential you. I would hate my honourable friend to
4:23:51 > 4:23:56be the one who was named by Wisley visitors and asked, why didn't he
4:23:56 > 4:24:05get it right when he had a chance? Thank you very much indeed, Madam
4:24:05 > 4:24:09Deputy Speaker. I congratulate my honourable friend on securing this
4:24:09 > 4:24:13important debate about highways England's planned improvements to
4:24:13 > 4:24:19the M25 junction ten near Wisley. This scheme has attracted a great
4:24:19 > 4:24:22deal of public and parliamentary interest and highways England have
4:24:22 > 4:24:27been listening carefully to all that has been said, including I am sure
4:24:27 > 4:24:32very eloquently tonight by the honourable gentleman. I am delighted
4:24:32 > 4:24:36that this government is delivering what is overall the most ambitious
4:24:36 > 4:24:42modernisation of England's motorways and major roads in a generation.
4:24:42 > 4:24:46Good transport links are critical to our economy and its growth. That is
4:24:46 > 4:24:49why this government is investing in transport infrastructure up and down
4:24:49 > 4:24:57the country. We are spending £15 billion, Madam Deputy Speaker, on
4:24:57 > 4:25:03schemes between 2015-2021, across England, that will connect people
4:25:03 > 4:25:06and businesses together, creating the right conditions for economic
4:25:06 > 4:25:12prosperity and growth. And, as the house will be aware, planning is
4:25:12 > 4:25:16already well under way for the second road investment strategy.
4:25:16 > 4:25:20These great programmes of investment must be delivered in a way that
4:25:20 > 4:25:24respects our environment, keeps the network of roads free-flowing, and
4:25:24 > 4:25:28makes our roads as safe as possible for those that travel and work on
4:25:28 > 4:25:31them. These are all considerations that highways England are taking
4:25:31 > 4:25:39into account in the development of this present scheme. In December
4:25:39 > 4:25:422014, the government launched the first road investment strategy,
4:25:42 > 4:25:48which outlined the scope of that investment up until the year 2021.
4:25:48 > 4:25:54The M25 junction Number Ten scheme near Wisley is a critical component
4:25:54 > 4:25:58of that national programme of investment, which highways England
4:25:58 > 4:26:04plans show will start in 2020-20 one. This junction, as my honourable
4:26:04 > 4:26:09friend will know, is one of the busiest road into changes in the
4:26:09 > 4:26:13country and has one of the highest accident rates anywhere on the
4:26:13 > 4:26:19strategic road network. Our investment here is, therefore,
4:26:19 > 4:26:23important by any measure, and we are committed to delivering a scheme
4:26:23 > 4:26:29that will deliver a lasting benefit for the region. I want to reassure
4:26:29 > 4:26:33the house that I, personally, understand the importance of RHS
4:26:33 > 4:26:37Wisley. The land around the junction and in the vicinity is of a very
4:26:37 > 4:26:43high environmental designation, including special protection areas,
4:26:43 > 4:26:46sites of special scientific interest, common land, ancient
4:26:46 > 4:26:51woodland, scheduled monuments, registered parks and gardens. It is
4:26:51 > 4:26:56home to unique habitats and, of course, RHS Wisley is
4:26:56 > 4:26:59internationally recognised, as my honourable friend said, as a
4:26:59 > 4:27:05world-class visitor attraction which brings 1.2 million visitors every
4:27:05 > 4:27:11year to what is a renowned centre of horticultural excellence. The
4:27:11 > 4:27:16investments being made at RHS Wisley are exciting and ambitious, and I
4:27:16 > 4:27:18look forward to seeing the improvements that will be delivered
4:27:18 > 4:27:24in the coming years. These investments and that institution is
4:27:24 > 4:27:29something the government wishes to support as a great national asset.
4:27:29 > 4:27:33And the plan is being proposed by highways England will, I am sure, do
4:27:33 > 4:27:39exactly that, as well as improving safety and congestion. Madam Deputy
4:27:39 > 4:27:42Speaker, I have already alluded to the levels of congestion on this
4:27:42 > 4:27:47road. On a daily basis it causes significant delays to those
4:27:47 > 4:27:54travelling on both the A3 and the M25. The objectives of this scheme
4:27:54 > 4:27:58to relieve congestion, provide more reliable journey times and flow, and
4:27:58 > 4:28:05improve safety for everyone at a key junction where the M25 meets the A3,
4:28:05 > 4:28:11not omitting walkers and cyclists who may wish to use the interchange.
4:28:11 > 4:28:16Highways England proposals to improve the M25 junction ten and A3
4:28:16 > 4:28:18interchange will also deliver much-needed additional capacity
4:28:18 > 4:28:25through widening that is required as part of the scheme. With this
4:28:25 > 4:28:28scheme, highways England has committed to delivering improved
4:28:28 > 4:28:32access for RHS Wisley itself, improvements that will increase the
4:28:32 > 4:28:37capacity of the road leading to the gardens and make access safer for
4:28:37 > 4:28:43everyone who visits and everyone who works at RHS Wisley itself. Madam
4:28:43 > 4:28:47Deputy Speaker, highways England ran a non-statutory consultation on the
4:28:47 > 4:28:50scheme earlier this year, along with a number of public information
4:28:50 > 4:28:55events. As part of that process they have been working closely with the
4:28:55 > 4:28:59RHS, as one of the key stakeholders, rightly recognising the importance
4:28:59 > 4:29:04of this site regionally and nationally. That in gauge has been
4:29:04 > 4:29:09constructive and helpful to both organisations, I understand. -- that
4:29:09 > 4:29:13engagement. RHS Wisley has expressed three main concern is to highways
4:29:13 > 4:29:19England in relation to access to the gardens. The first is the potential
4:29:19 > 4:29:23for land take and associated impact on historic trees and habitats. The
4:29:23 > 4:29:28second is the need to retain, as they see it, direct access from
4:29:28 > 4:29:35Wisley Lane onto the A3. And the third is the additional distance
4:29:35 > 4:29:38visitors to RHS Wisley would have to travel under the proposed new road
4:29:38 > 4:29:44layout. All three elements have been mentioned by my honourable friend. I
4:29:44 > 4:29:48recognise these concerns, as to highways England, and I can reassure
4:29:48 > 4:29:52my honourable friend that they are being carefully considered. We
4:29:52 > 4:29:56cannot use this debate to pre-empt the formal processes which highways
4:29:56 > 4:30:00England are committed to undertake under process of law. It is
4:30:00 > 4:30:05important that these are not compromised, as they are designed to
4:30:05 > 4:30:06enable sound public decision-making on large-scale infrastructure
4:30:06 > 4:30:14investments. These due processes need to be fair to all parties.
4:30:14 > 4:30:17Within these constraints, I have little doubt that highways England
4:30:17 > 4:30:22will find the optimal solution for all, and one that minimises the
4:30:22 > 4:30:27impact on the unique habitat and trees at RHS Wisley. On issues of
4:30:27 > 4:30:31access, I am advised that all options are being carefully
4:30:31 > 4:30:35considered and evaluated. This is an essential step ahead of the
4:30:35 > 4:30:38preferred route announcement for the scheme, which I expect in the coming
4:30:38 > 4:30:44weeks. While I am sympathetic to the concerns I have heard over the last
4:30:44 > 4:30:47few months, and of course this evening from my honourable friend, I
4:30:47 > 4:30:50must be clear that it is not appropriate for myself or highways
4:30:50 > 4:30:54England to consider any access options that do not improve the
4:30:54 > 4:31:00safety of this stretch of road, or provide value for taxpayers' money.
4:31:00 > 4:31:04I recognise the concerns of RHS Wisley, the commercial concerns
4:31:04 > 4:31:07about the distances some visitors may need to travel under a proposed
4:31:07 > 4:31:12new road layout, as well as their concern that there should be
4:31:12 > 4:31:16self-effacing slips at the roundabout, as my honourable friend
4:31:16 > 4:31:19has mentioned. As part of a value for money consideration, the
4:31:19 > 4:31:23business case must demonstrate optimal use of resources to achieve
4:31:23 > 4:31:29intended outcomes. But the key point for this debate, as noted, is that
4:31:29 > 4:31:33these commercial considerations do not form part of the current scheme
4:31:33 > 4:31:37proposal that highways England has been asked and funded to deliver.
4:31:37 > 4:31:41They could be considered as a separate scheme in a future road
4:31:41 > 4:31:45investment period, if appropriate, and I am sure they would be given,
4:31:45 > 4:31:52at that time," said rate. As highways England moves towards a
4:31:52 > 4:31:56preferred route announcement, I am assured that they will continue to
4:31:56 > 4:32:00engage with RHS Wisley. They are carefully considering responses to
4:32:00 > 4:32:03their consultation and will publish the results in due course. This will
4:32:03 > 4:32:09make sure that potential impacts on the community are -- community and
4:32:09 > 4:32:13environment have been considered. It will ensure the final scheme design
4:32:13 > 4:32:18considers all relevant responses where applicable, and it will assure
4:32:18 > 4:32:21that the final environmental statement takes into account those
4:32:21 > 4:32:28impacts and any mitigation measures needed to address them.
4:32:28 > 4:32:33Highways England will hold a second consultation with the public can
4:32:33 > 4:32:36give their views and influence the specific development of the design.
4:32:36 > 4:32:40I hope this encourages my honourable friend in the view that the
4:32:40 > 4:32:43Government and Highways England are sensitive to the concerns he has so
4:32:43 > 4:32:48eloquently raised this evening, while recognising the critical
4:32:48 > 4:32:50importance of our roads and specifically of this junction
4:32:50 > 4:32:55scheme, in building an economy that works for everyone and the network
4:32:55 > 4:33:05of highways that is safe. I have also asked Highways England to write
4:33:05 > 4:33:08to RHS Wisley explaining the current position in response to the numerous
4:33:08 > 4:33:12correspondence they have received, as I thought to myself on behalf of
4:33:12 > 4:33:17the Department. I cannot close without responding to the final very
4:33:17 > 4:33:22courteous and generous invitation considering the manner of cake. As
4:33:22 > 4:33:26the householder, there are no ministers to my knowledge are
4:33:26 > 4:33:31resistant to the charms of cake, least of all a piece of RHS Wisley
4:33:31 > 4:33:37Victoria sponge, as dutifully set out. A bum would be one thing that
4:33:37 > 4:33:39cake, I bridge to the House, is quite a different matter, especially
4:33:39 > 4:33:45when accompanied by a cup of tea although I would insist upon paying
4:33:45 > 4:33:49myself but I would be delighted to take up this kind invitation
4:33:49 > 4:33:52provided we're first able to see how the matter of months after the
4:33:52 > 4:33:59proper process of consultation has completed.The question is that this
4:33:59 > 4:34:02House now do adjourn. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the
4:34:02 > 4:34:16contrary, "no". The ayes have it. Order, order.