0:00:00 > 0:00:05should be available online and I will see what can be done.I think
0:00:05 > 0:00:09he needs a new copy. Let's move on to the ministerial statement,
0:00:09 > 0:00:18Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.I would like to make a
0:00:18 > 0:00:22statement about the current particle situation in Northern Ireland. As
0:00:22 > 0:00:25the House is aware, Northern Ireland has been without a properly
0:00:25 > 0:00:30functioning devolved executive and assembly for nine months. During
0:00:30 > 0:00:35this time the Democratic Unionist Party and Sinn Fein as the two
0:00:35 > 0:00:38largest parties and the assembly have been engaged in a series of
0:00:38 > 0:00:41discussions to restore inclusive power-sharing Government at
0:00:41 > 0:00:49Stormont. The latest phase of the discussions began in August and it
0:00:49 > 0:00:52is the responsibility of the parties to reach an agreement and the
0:00:52 > 0:00:55Government has been working tirelessly to support this process.
0:00:55 > 0:01:02In addition to this I have kept in regular contact with the Ulster
0:01:02 > 0:01:04Unionists, SDLP underlines as well as representatives of business and
0:01:04 > 0:01:10civil society. The prime ministers has also remained closely involved
0:01:10 > 0:01:14throughout the process and has held a number of discussions with the
0:01:14 > 0:01:18leaders of the DUP and Sinn Fein as well as keeping in contact with the
0:01:18 > 0:01:25Taoiseach. The Irish Government has been involved in the three stranded
0:01:25 > 0:01:29approach to Northern Ireland affairs and I would like to acknowledge the
0:01:29 > 0:01:34contribution of the Irish Foreign Minister. Our efforts have been
0:01:34 > 0:01:37focused on bridging a small number of differences between the two
0:01:37 > 0:01:41largest parties, particularly around in language and culture that have
0:01:41 > 0:01:45prevented a sustainable executive being formed. While important
0:01:45 > 0:01:50progress has been made, the parties have not yet reached an agreement.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54Therefore I am not in a position to bring before the House legislation
0:01:54 > 0:01:59necessary for an executive to be formed this week. The consequence of
0:01:59 > 0:02:02this is that it is now highly unlikely that an executive could be
0:02:02 > 0:02:07in place within a timetable to be assured of passing a budget by the
0:02:07 > 0:02:12end of November. Which is the point at which we and the Northern Ireland
0:02:12 > 0:02:15civil service assess the Northern Ireland will begin to run out of
0:02:15 > 0:02:20resources. No Government could simply stand by and allow that to
0:02:20 > 0:02:24happen and we will be checking our responsibilities to the people of
0:02:24 > 0:02:30Northern Ireland were we to do so. That is why the Government will take
0:02:30 > 0:02:33forward the necessary steps to nibble a budget bill to be
0:02:33 > 0:02:37introduced in order to protect the delivery of public services said
0:02:37 > 0:02:42Northern Ireland. This budget bill would deal only with the current
0:02:42 > 0:02:46financial year, it would incorporate figures provided by the Northern
0:02:46 > 0:02:51Ireland civil service reflecting the assessment of the outgoing
0:02:51 > 0:02:55priorities of the previous executive, it would not set out any
0:02:55 > 0:03:01spending decisions by me or by the Government. As the Leader of the
0:03:01 > 0:03:04House has indicated, I would expect the budget bill to be considered in
0:03:04 > 0:03:08this House shortly after the November recess. Subject to
0:03:08 > 0:03:11parliamentary approval of this bill would give the Northern Ireland
0:03:11 > 0:03:17civil service certainty to plan for the rest of this financial year by
0:03:17 > 0:03:20giving the necessary legal authority to spend to existing plans. I would
0:03:20 > 0:03:28like to take this opportunity to put on records my deep appreciation for
0:03:28 > 0:03:32the professionalism of the Northern Ireland civil service and attaining
0:03:32 > 0:03:36public services during this very difficult time. The Government's
0:03:36 > 0:03:38strong desire would be fully restored executive in Northern
0:03:38 > 0:03:45Ireland to take four its own budget. This tip is one that I now take with
0:03:45 > 0:03:50the uppermost martens and only in the absence of any other option. I
0:03:50 > 0:03:54want to be clear that passing a budget in Westminster does not mark
0:03:54 > 0:03:59a move to direct rule. Any more than passing of legislation by this House
0:03:59 > 0:04:05to set a regional rates dead and April. It is important to emphasise
0:04:05 > 0:04:09this is not an obstacle to continue political negotiations. The
0:04:09 > 0:04:11Government will continue to work with the parties with that clear
0:04:11 > 0:04:18intent. Even though however unlikely this may be, should the parties
0:04:18 > 0:04:22demonstrate that any negative could be formed in the media future I
0:04:22 > 0:04:25would clearly wish to proceed with the legislation that would allow
0:04:25 > 0:04:28that to happen. On the condition that amines can be created to
0:04:28 > 0:04:33provide an expert stated procedure on an exceptional basis to enable
0:04:33 > 0:04:38the budget to be passed by the end of November. In addition to the
0:04:38 > 0:04:42preparations of legislation and the strength of public concern, and also
0:04:42 > 0:04:45reflect carefully on the issue of salaries for assembly members. This
0:04:45 > 0:04:49is a devolved matter and I cannot intervene without primary
0:04:49 > 0:04:55legislation in Westminster. As a recently told the Northern Ireland
0:04:55 > 0:04:59affairs committee in the continued absence of a functioning assembly,
0:04:59 > 0:05:02the status quo is not terrible. Therefore I will be seeking
0:05:02 > 0:05:08independent advice on what steps may be taken to reflect the current self
0:05:08 > 0:05:15circumstances. I still hope that the parties can resolve their
0:05:15 > 0:05:20differences and that any sector can be formed. We will continue to work
0:05:20 > 0:05:24with them and support them in their efforts. Together with the Irish
0:05:24 > 0:05:28Government we remain steadfast in our commitment to the 1980s Belfast
0:05:28 > 0:05:31agreement and its successors and to the institutions the established. It
0:05:31 > 0:05:38remains the limit in the interest of Northern Ireland to seek devolved
0:05:38 > 0:05:40Government to be restored, but coolly collected politicians making
0:05:40 > 0:05:48decisions for the people of Northern Ireland Onkyo, has such as health,
0:05:48 > 0:05:51education and transport. We're clear that Northern Ireland is a properly
0:05:51 > 0:05:53functioning and inclusive devolved Government along effective
0:05:53 > 0:06:01structures for cooperation. Ultimately the Government is
0:06:01 > 0:06:03responsible for good governance in Northern Ireland and we will do
0:06:03 > 0:06:07whatever is necessary to provide that. I commend the statement to the
0:06:07 > 0:06:19House.May I begin by thanking the Secretary of State for his statement
0:06:19 > 0:06:23and the great efforts to keep me brief during crucial points during
0:06:23 > 0:06:26the talks. I know he agrees it is profoundly disappointing ten months
0:06:26 > 0:06:34after the breakdown of Stormont after two elections and countless
0:06:34 > 0:06:37increasingly meaningless deadlines, the larger parties remain deadlocked
0:06:37 > 0:06:41unable to agree with one another on the agenda for change and unwilling
0:06:41 > 0:06:46to show trust one another. I also want to put on record my support for
0:06:46 > 0:06:50the work that the Northern Ireland civil service has been doing,
0:06:50 > 0:06:55keeping services going and for the work done by the Irish Government in
0:06:55 > 0:06:58particular the Foreign Minister and trying to bring about resolution.
0:06:58 > 0:07:04When we disagree I suspect is on what what could be done during those
0:07:04 > 0:07:08ten months and still might be done to bring about resolution. Firstly
0:07:08 > 0:07:16and most importantly we believe the plainest of Great Britain and
0:07:16 > 0:07:19Northern Ireland -- the Prime Minister of Great Britain and
0:07:19 > 0:07:23Northern Ireland could bring about a resolution of the impasse. It is
0:07:23 > 0:07:28inexcusable and inexplicable that she is only visited Northern Ireland
0:07:28 > 0:07:34once during her 15 months and office and that for a 50 minute photocall
0:07:34 > 0:07:39during the elections at an agricultural show. She has not
0:07:39 > 0:07:42attended a single substantive session of the talks in Belfast and
0:07:42 > 0:07:46she has not made a single substantive intervention to try and
0:07:46 > 0:07:50move things along. I know things have been difficult recently but
0:07:50 > 0:07:55frankly the odd phone call to the Taoiseach just is not good enough.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58It may be true that the days of the primaries the flying into Northern
0:07:58 > 0:08:03Ireland to try and fix things are passed and overstated but they could
0:08:03 > 0:08:10at least give it a go and we have not seen our Prime Minister doing so
0:08:10 > 0:08:16and we want to see more effort from her. Secondly the table must have
0:08:16 > 0:08:21come to draft in some outside help for both the Prime Minister and the
0:08:21 > 0:08:26Secretary of State. The Labour Party has a proud record of bringing about
0:08:26 > 0:08:32progress in the peace process in Northern Ireland, an independent
0:08:32 > 0:08:35observers have proved useful in the past so can I ask the Secretary of
0:08:35 > 0:08:40State at this juncture to consider doing likewise and bringing in a
0:08:40 > 0:08:44fresh pair of eyes. That may I ask the Secretary of State if you can
0:08:44 > 0:08:48tell us any more about his intentions now that this round of
0:08:48 > 0:08:51talks have failed because we will support him wholeheartedly of course
0:08:51 > 0:08:57and bringing forward a budget, public services in Northern Ireland
0:08:57 > 0:09:00as elsewhere need investment not cuts and he will have to tell the
0:09:00 > 0:09:04House and he intends to consult the parties on priorities and ensure
0:09:04 > 0:09:08that funds are spent equitably. There are reports that he has also
0:09:08 > 0:09:12been discussing with the parties other ways to sustain and find a
0:09:12 > 0:09:15role for the assembly even under direct rule so can he tell us today
0:09:15 > 0:09:19what that might mean because I'd be be clear, direct rule would be a
0:09:19 > 0:09:24profoundly damaging retrograde step in the peace process. A shadow
0:09:24 > 0:09:29assembly of some sort perhaps scrutinising of even advertising
0:09:29 > 0:09:34direct rule ministers crucially that would be a way to sustain vital
0:09:34 > 0:09:41north relations and institutions, East-West institutions things that
0:09:41 > 0:09:45are crucial to the Belfast Good Friday Agreement that may provide
0:09:45 > 0:09:49some mitigation. It is certainly an idea we would be willing to explore
0:09:49 > 0:09:53other side of the House as a means of sustaining the talks and as a
0:09:53 > 0:09:57bridge back to devolution. Given that ultimate object of that we
0:09:57 > 0:10:00share, carried out shall also to resist giving Crotty said today
0:10:00 > 0:10:08short-term pressure to cut pay, cutting politician pays was popular
0:10:08 > 0:10:15but we need this generation of Northern Ireland politicians to talk
0:10:15 > 0:10:19together to bring about power-sharing and Faust he is right
0:10:19 > 0:10:22that patience is wearing thin he should resist steps that would
0:10:22 > 0:10:27undermine the ability of the parties to negotiate and engage,
0:10:27 > 0:10:31particularly smaller parties. And can I get them a foretaste of what
0:10:31 > 0:10:35life will mean for him under direct rule and ask them to agree with me
0:10:35 > 0:10:39that this morning's report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies makes
0:10:39 > 0:10:42shameful reading for his Government in particular in respect of Northern
0:10:42 > 0:10:46Ireland because it shows that more children will be driven into
0:10:46 > 0:10:52absolute poverty in Northern Ireland by the changes to Universal Credit
0:10:52 > 0:10:58and pernicious to child policy than in any other nation of the UK. Would
0:10:58 > 0:11:01he commit to using his forthcoming budget to undo that harm to the
0:11:01 > 0:11:09children of Northern Ireland?Can I thank the right honourable gentleman
0:11:09 > 0:11:15for his comments in support of the proposals to bring forward a budget
0:11:15 > 0:11:19bill and the necessity to ensure that we have that financial
0:11:19 > 0:11:22stability. That will help the Northern Ireland civil service
0:11:22 > 0:11:26continue with the work that they have been doing already in ensuring
0:11:26 > 0:11:30that public services are delivered, having that focus on the people of
0:11:30 > 0:11:35Northern Ireland and they also acknowledge the support he has given
0:11:35 > 0:11:37to the civil service, all of those engaged and involved for that
0:11:37 > 0:11:44important work. I agree with him on the profound disappointment or not
0:11:44 > 0:11:49finding the resolution to date, Northern Ireland needs devolved
0:11:49 > 0:11:56Government. I profoundly believe in devolution and in that sense of
0:11:56 > 0:11:58locally elected politicians making decisions locally and held
0:11:58 > 0:12:04accountable by an elected assembly. Locally. That is what is profoundly
0:12:04 > 0:12:10in the best interests of Northern Ireland and he talks about other
0:12:10 > 0:12:15options, my focus remains very firmly on how we see devolution
0:12:15 > 0:12:21restored. I think anything else as a backward step, that there is the
0:12:21 > 0:12:25concerns about the delivery of public services will we are taking
0:12:25 > 0:12:29the step we have outlined today and that ultimately they simply cannot
0:12:29 > 0:12:34carry on for ever. It is a need to ensure that this political
0:12:34 > 0:12:40decision-making being taken. He highlights the issue of the process
0:12:40 > 0:12:47and the steps to follow on. I would have liked to him that bringing
0:12:47 > 0:12:51forward of this budget bill should not a Mac to the end of the talks,
0:12:51 > 0:12:54indeed the parties themselves have indicated that they remain committed
0:12:54 > 0:12:58to finding a way forward is to seek a resolution and discussions between
0:12:58 > 0:13:04the DUP and Sinn Fein, how they can continue and finding ways to ensure
0:13:04 > 0:13:09that they do find a resolution at around a small number of issues but
0:13:09 > 0:13:13whether it is different is that family remains between the two
0:13:13 > 0:13:20parties. Well that has been positive progress on a number of fronts we
0:13:20 > 0:13:25are not at that point of reaching agreement. He highlights the
0:13:25 > 0:13:30potential role of the play ministers, I would say to him she
0:13:30 > 0:13:34has been actively involved talking to the party. She had meeting with
0:13:34 > 0:13:38the parties at number ten in terms of bringing them together and so she
0:13:38 > 0:13:43does remain actively involved and including continued discussions with
0:13:43 > 0:13:46the Taoiseach and electrically can work together as two governments to
0:13:46 > 0:13:52ensure that there is coordinated approach respectful for the way in
0:13:52 > 0:13:55which these issues are undertaken and respect of Northern Ireland. I
0:13:55 > 0:14:00think he makes points about intervention and things like that,
0:14:00 > 0:14:03clearly we do keep issues under careful review and they do not rule
0:14:03 > 0:14:08anything out in respect of the way forward. We want to see the
0:14:08 > 0:14:11engagement that has been undertaken in earnest in a concerted way
0:14:11 > 0:14:15between the two parties continuing will stop they have shown that they
0:14:15 > 0:14:19can make progress in that format, we want to support them are continuing
0:14:19 > 0:14:28to see that and I honestly want to see the rest of restoration of the
0:14:28 > 0:14:32devolved settlement, institutions that are at the heart of the Belfast
0:14:32 > 0:14:34Good Friday Agreement that actually underpin the framework that we have
0:14:34 > 0:14:39another violent and see that that is restored at the list opportunity and
0:14:39 > 0:14:41doing all that we can as a Government to see that that that is
0:14:41 > 0:14:47brought about.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51Other points in relation to the economy were made. I would say to
0:14:51 > 0:14:56him about Universal Credit, that it is about making work pay, about how
0:14:56 > 0:15:01we get people back into work, seeing the pathways and seeing things are
0:15:01 > 0:15:04supported. We are looking at this carefully in terms of the way this
0:15:04 > 0:15:10is implemented in Northern Ireland. I would also point to the picture of
0:15:10 > 0:15:15prosperity, of jobs, of an economy that is growing, and on issues of
0:15:15 > 0:15:22tourism, more people coming to Northern Ireland and I would
0:15:22 > 0:15:31encourage him to underpin that in the message she gets.I know my
0:15:31 > 0:15:34right honourable friend sheers weariness, so I would welcome the
0:15:34 > 0:15:39statement today. Can I commend him for his patience and fortitude
0:15:39 > 0:15:43during this process. Last week the committee that I cheer visited Newry
0:15:43 > 0:15:47and spoke with businessmen. No-bid in the United Kingdom are the
0:15:47 > 0:15:52effects of Brexit going to be felt more acutely than in that region.
0:15:52 > 0:15:58And yet, Northern Ireland stands to suffer in the negotiations because
0:15:58 > 0:16:03its voice will not be heard clearly enough alongside other home nations.
0:16:03 > 0:16:09Given that the executive is likely to be in abeyance for a large part
0:16:09 > 0:16:13of the negotiating period, what measures will maybe put in place to
0:16:13 > 0:16:19ensure Northern Ireland's voice is heard?Can I commend him for the
0:16:19 > 0:16:25work of his committee who I know have taken a clear focus and
0:16:25 > 0:16:29interest in the issues around Brexit and Northern Ireland, and I am sure
0:16:29 > 0:16:33they will continue to do so, and the evidence his committee has been
0:16:33 > 0:16:40producing has been helpful and informative. This government wants
0:16:40 > 0:16:47to see the most positive outcome for the United Kingdom as a whole,
0:16:47 > 0:16:56including Northern Ireland. That is why we do not publish the paper --
0:16:56 > 0:16:59published the paper in the summer discussing how we can do this
0:16:59 > 0:17:07effectively. We will be continuing, as we have been through the first
0:17:07 > 0:17:11phase of the negotiations, to underline those specific factors and
0:17:11 > 0:17:21elements to ensure they are recognising the unique circumstances
0:17:21 > 0:17:27of Northern Ireland, and the parties in Northern Ireland included, to
0:17:27 > 0:17:29ensure the factors are addressed, and I am determined that is what the
0:17:29 > 0:17:39outcome will be.The people of Northern Ireland have every right to
0:17:39 > 0:17:44be disappointed with politicians who should be achieving a return to a
0:17:44 > 0:17:47functioning executive. It will falter this place which lacks the
0:17:47 > 0:17:51detailed knowledge Stormont politicians have to set a budget for
0:17:51 > 0:17:54Northern Ireland, when it should be Stormont. It is essential that
0:17:54 > 0:17:59control is passed back to Belfast as soon as possible, so can the
0:17:59 > 0:18:03Secretary of State tell us what the insurmountable barriers are that the
0:18:03 > 0:18:07Stormont politicians face, and how he intends to break them down?
0:18:07 > 0:18:11Reimposing direct rule would be a foolish thing to do, but Brexit and
0:18:11 > 0:18:17the coming border issues make it ridiculous. How will he avoid that
0:18:17 > 0:18:22and ensure Northern Ireland moves forward? Is he giving consideration
0:18:22 > 0:18:24to changing the legislation governing power-sharing to ensure
0:18:24 > 0:18:30future elections cannot return to stalemate negotiations that harm the
0:18:30 > 0:18:35people that Stormont should be helping. What steps will he be
0:18:35 > 0:18:40putting before calling new elections, and finally,
0:18:40 > 0:18:45unfortunately I must express my disappointment that highly unusually
0:18:45 > 0:18:49I received the Secretary of State's statement by e-mail with only 50
0:18:49 > 0:18:52seconds to spare. The written statement six minutes after the
0:18:52 > 0:18:57Secretary of State began to speak. So, I would be grateful for an
0:18:57 > 0:19:01understanding of how that happened so it does not happen in the future.
0:19:01 > 0:19:08I will follow up with the honourable lady after this statement, because
0:19:08 > 0:19:11it is not my intent to ensure she was not properly briefed in advance,
0:19:11 > 0:19:18that is not the way I operate, and I will certainly make specific
0:19:18 > 0:19:23enquiries after the statement and revert to the honourable lady to
0:19:23 > 0:19:27ensure she is kept properly informed in the usual way in respect of this,
0:19:27 > 0:19:32and I take seriously the point she has raised to the House this
0:19:32 > 0:19:35morning, and will pursue that to ensure there can be no repetition in
0:19:35 > 0:19:41respect of that. She makes a number of points on the issues outstanding.
0:19:41 > 0:19:50As I indicated to the House, I think this is primarily about the assembly
0:19:50 > 0:19:56and executive, and also around issues of language, culture,
0:19:56 > 0:20:01identity and respect. Those elements that I think underline the
0:20:01 > 0:20:07discussions we have had over many weeks, that it is important it is
0:20:07 > 0:20:10right, so there is the sense of sustainability that the executive
0:20:10 > 0:20:17can just get on with the job of serving in Northern Ireland. I think
0:20:17 > 0:20:20that is what politicians on all sides are seeking to do to seek to
0:20:20 > 0:20:25get this right, and it is ultimately for the parties themselves to reach
0:20:25 > 0:20:32that agreement. That is why we have been working with them, recognising
0:20:32 > 0:20:37the responsibilities we have is government and the responsibilities
0:20:37 > 0:20:41under the various agreements we hold. But it is around getting the
0:20:41 > 0:20:44parties themselves to find that accommodation to find that agreement
0:20:44 > 0:20:55that has not yet been found. It is that an extent we're having to take,
0:20:55 > 0:20:59and the announcement today is about a budget, about a necessity to
0:20:59 > 0:21:06ensure the finances of Northern Ireland are on a sound footing, and
0:21:06 > 0:21:09we will continue to support the parties to find that agreement, but
0:21:09 > 0:21:14knowing that this cannot continue indefinitely, and she highlights the
0:21:14 > 0:21:20election duty that I continue to be under under legislation, and it is
0:21:20 > 0:21:23something I have to keep under review, knowing that is the only
0:21:23 > 0:21:30factor I currently have is a power in law, under the legislation that
0:21:30 > 0:21:33continues to exist, but knowing that I want to see the resolution and
0:21:33 > 0:21:38agreement and that is the best possible outcome.My constituency
0:21:38 > 0:21:42and catering find it appalling that that threats of prosecution should
0:21:42 > 0:21:47hang over Armed Forces veterans for events which happened 40 or 50 years
0:21:47 > 0:21:56ago, when at the same time known terrorists have effectively been
0:21:56 > 0:22:01told they will not be prosecuted for the non-crimes. Will he make sure
0:22:01 > 0:22:13that clauses are contained to stop this witchhunt?I pay clear tribute
0:22:13 > 0:22:20to the incredible service, bravery and sacrifice for those involved in
0:22:20 > 0:22:24upholding the rule of law, and ensuring we have political freedoms
0:22:24 > 0:22:30and Northern Ireland we have today. I hear the point firmly that he
0:22:30 > 0:22:33makes about the concern over witchhunts, about the way in which
0:22:33 > 0:22:42the system operates. I want to move forward with the consultation around
0:22:42 > 0:22:46the Stormont House agreement, which sets out new institutions, new
0:22:46 > 0:22:54bodies, intended to be transparent, fair and equitable, thereby ensuring
0:22:54 > 0:22:58soldiers are not unfairly treated. I believe that is the right way
0:22:58 > 0:23:01forward, and I believe it will provide everyone the opportunity to
0:23:01 > 0:23:10contribute, to have their point of view expressed, but ultimately I
0:23:10 > 0:23:20believe they firmly mark the best way forward.Can I thank him for his
0:23:20 > 0:23:26statement and consultations he has had with us here as the process has
0:23:26 > 0:23:30developed. It has been very good contact and interaction with him,
0:23:30 > 0:23:35office and government more generally. It is worth reminding the
0:23:35 > 0:23:40House how we have got to this point. We had an agreed programme for
0:23:40 > 0:23:44government with Sinn Fein in December, as recently as December,
0:23:44 > 0:23:47the DUP and Sinn Fein, and none of the issues that have been raised by
0:23:47 > 0:23:54Sinn Fein is critical preconditions were raised by them in December. The
0:23:54 > 0:23:59pull down the government, walked out, and the unknown setting new
0:23:59 > 0:24:02preconditions for the formation of the government. Along with the
0:24:02 > 0:24:07Ulster universe, SDLP and Alliance, we would set the government up
0:24:07 > 0:24:13tomorrow. Sinn Fein are blocking at. Said the Secretary of State is
0:24:13 > 0:24:16perfectly right to come to this House as we have been urging to get
0:24:16 > 0:24:20the budget set, and I would also say that we cannot allow the drift to
0:24:20 > 0:24:25continue. At some point in the near future we will need to have
0:24:25 > 0:24:31ministers, and if they are not Northern Ireland Executive
0:24:31 > 0:24:35ministers, which is what we want, it would have to be ministers from
0:24:35 > 0:24:39here, who will have to make decisions because we cannot allow
0:24:39 > 0:24:42the economy to drift and we cannot allow Northern Ireland today. We
0:24:42 > 0:24:46will work with him in this place to ensure the good governance of
0:24:46 > 0:24:52Northern Ireland continues, along with a role for Northern politicians
0:24:52 > 0:24:58in a consultative role back home at Stormont. Let us get on with
0:24:58 > 0:25:04removing the preconditions Sinn Fein have set, you conditions that have
0:25:04 > 0:25:08come forward since December, let us get on with governing Northern
0:25:08 > 0:25:12Ireland from Stormont, and if that is not able to happen, we must get
0:25:12 > 0:25:19on with the job in consultation with politicians back home.I certainly
0:25:19 > 0:25:22support his message of the need for Northern Ireland to get on with the
0:25:22 > 0:25:29job, and also the need to see devolved government restored. And he
0:25:29 > 0:25:36makes a number of points about how that can be done with his own party
0:25:36 > 0:25:40very closely engaged in those negotiations with Sinn Fein. The
0:25:40 > 0:25:45work that has gone on, with efforts that have been put in place, to see
0:25:45 > 0:25:51that devolution is restored. I would say again that that has to be the
0:25:51 > 0:25:55focus. It has to be the optimum outcome of seeing that locally
0:25:55 > 0:26:00functioning collected assembly and executive serving the people of
0:26:00 > 0:26:03Northern Ireland, and I would encourage him and his party to
0:26:03 > 0:26:08continue the efforts they have done over an extended period to find that
0:26:08 > 0:26:14way forward to see what is that space for agreement, to provide the
0:26:14 > 0:26:19sense of stability for Northern Ireland which we all want to see in
0:26:19 > 0:26:23actually dealing with public services, dealing with the economy,
0:26:23 > 0:26:26seeing the drop scrolling. That is the picture the public in Northern
0:26:26 > 0:26:30Ireland want, that service for them and seeing that positive movement,
0:26:30 > 0:26:37so I would certainly underline to him and others that we all must have
0:26:37 > 0:26:42that resolute focus in our minds in the week ahead, seeing this can be
0:26:42 > 0:26:50achieved. -- the weeks ahead.Can I commend my right honourable friend
0:26:50 > 0:26:53for his pragmatic, diplomatic and calm approach to these negotiations
0:26:53 > 0:27:03and also the Prime Minister for placing trust in him to assist
0:27:03 > 0:27:07getting this process underway. Can he confirm that he will cease this
0:27:07 > 0:27:26legislation immediately, the parties agree on a... Spending decisions
0:27:26 > 0:27:30must be taken in the best interests of Northern Ireland.I am grateful
0:27:30 > 0:27:36to him for his point, and as I indicated, should be possible for an
0:27:36 > 0:27:39agreement to be reached that wouldn't label and executive to be
0:27:39 > 0:27:42in place quickly, I would not want to bring forward the budget Bill.
0:27:42 > 0:27:47But I said to him that they are important steps we are having to
0:27:47 > 0:27:52take. The end of November is a crucial time that the civil service
0:27:52 > 0:27:57have underlined to us that they need that budget in place. Which is why I
0:27:57 > 0:28:04am taking the steps I have outlined today. It is not about the UK
0:28:04 > 0:28:08Government setting where the spending priorities should be, it
0:28:08 > 0:28:10remains firmly with the Northern Ireland civil service in the way
0:28:10 > 0:28:14they have continued to do over recent months, in getting one and
0:28:14 > 0:28:19continuing with the job. It is not about direct rule, or UK Government
0:28:19 > 0:28:23ministers setting those individual priorities, but it is important that
0:28:23 > 0:28:28this issue is capable of being resolved quickly, and that is
0:28:28 > 0:28:37weirdly focus must lie.Is one of the last direct rule ministers,
0:28:37 > 0:28:40could I say that however engaging it is for those involved, it is not a
0:28:40 > 0:28:45good form of government, and wish him well in establishing the
0:28:45 > 0:28:50assembly in Northern Ireland. But could he indicate to me what
0:28:50 > 0:28:54involvement there is with regard to the extra money agreed between the
0:28:54 > 0:28:58DUP and government, and whether that is part of the government settlement
0:28:58 > 0:29:01-- budget settlement, and if he is to table questions after the budget
0:29:01 > 0:29:10is agreed, would he answer or find another mechanism of accountability?
0:29:10 > 0:29:16I think that he and I acknowledge his previous experience in the role
0:29:16 > 0:29:23he had within Northern Ireland, and his own personal presentation of the
0:29:23 > 0:29:26challenges that brings, that this is not an outcome we would want to see.
0:29:26 > 0:29:32I say to him that in relation to the budget, as we have made clear
0:29:32 > 0:29:37throughout this process, the budget Bill speaks to the main estimates
0:29:37 > 0:29:43that have been put in place earlier this year, that is the framework it
0:29:43 > 0:29:46operates within. Obviously it is open for this House to vote through
0:29:46 > 0:29:50supplementary Estimates for further money to be made available to
0:29:50 > 0:29:53Northern Ireland during the course of the financial year, it is about
0:29:53 > 0:29:59votes in this House that matter. But this government, we stand by our
0:29:59 > 0:30:04commitment, and as a party we stand by agreement that has been reached
0:30:04 > 0:30:07with the Democratic Unionist Party, and nothing I have said today
0:30:07 > 0:30:11changes that.
0:30:11 > 0:30:15I would like to place on record my thanks to the Secretary of State and
0:30:15 > 0:30:18his team are coming to the House this morning, setting out the
0:30:18 > 0:30:23position and being helpful in his answers to questions. But the desert
0:30:23 > 0:30:31-- benefits of my residence I wonder if he could set up the extent to
0:30:31 > 0:30:35which himself, his team, civil servants and the Prime Minister have
0:30:35 > 0:30:39undertaken work and commitments to try and find a way through what is
0:30:39 > 0:30:44quite clearly a very, very difficult situation?I'm grateful to my
0:30:44 > 0:30:50honourable friend for I think underlining the work that so many
0:30:50 > 0:30:56people have put in, the hours, the days that have gone in to supporting
0:30:56 > 0:30:59the parties, the absolute commitment that we as a government house in
0:30:59 > 0:31:07wanting to see a positive outcome and irresolution -- and a
0:31:07 > 0:31:12resolution. It's about seeking to provide solutions to providing work
0:31:12 > 0:31:18for them to consider bridging the gaps between them and we will
0:31:18 > 0:31:21continue to do that because it matters somewhat and as I have
0:31:21 > 0:31:26indicated to the House, our uppermost commitment to seeing
0:31:26 > 0:31:30devolved government returned and default government getting to the
0:31:30 > 0:31:36job in hand, we will continue to do so.Sir Geoffrey Donaldson. Thank
0:31:36 > 0:31:39you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the statement made and we are
0:31:39 > 0:31:43disappointed that we do not have a devolved government in Northern
0:31:43 > 0:31:46Ireland because it is impacting every day on my constituents and I
0:31:46 > 0:31:51would say to the honourable lady who represents the SNP, we are quite
0:31:51 > 0:31:55capable of reflecting what happens in Northern Ireland, I've been a
0:31:55 > 0:31:58member of Parliament for 20 years, I think I have acquired a little
0:31:58 > 0:32:01knowledge of how Northern Ireland works and will bring that knowledge
0:32:01 > 0:32:05to this hazard we have direct rule. Can I say to the Secretary of State
0:32:05 > 0:32:09the Armed Forces covenanters very important to us, has been part of
0:32:09 > 0:32:12this because the Asians and is part of our agreement with the government
0:32:12 > 0:32:15that it is fully committed in Northern Ireland and there will be
0:32:15 > 0:32:19no outcome that will not see that Armed Forces covenant providing for
0:32:19 > 0:32:22the servicemen and women and the veterans and their families from
0:32:22 > 0:32:26Northern Ireland who has served this country. And we look to the
0:32:26 > 0:32:30government to support us in securing that outcome.Well again, I pay
0:32:30 > 0:32:36tribute to the incredible work of our armed forces, what they do for
0:32:36 > 0:32:42us every single day. And that is why as a government we have underlined
0:32:42 > 0:32:47our commitment to the military covenant and wanting to see that
0:32:47 > 0:32:50touch all parts of the United Kingdom. I would say to the right
0:32:50 > 0:32:56honourable gentleman that has for example involved my attendance in
0:32:56 > 0:33:01the course of the last week of a cross ministerial group to assess
0:33:01 > 0:33:05progress of ministers from across Whitehall, coming together and we do
0:33:05 > 0:33:10want to see the benefits, the importance of the military covenant
0:33:10 > 0:33:15felt in all parts of the United Kingdom. Yes, recognising the
0:33:15 > 0:33:19differences across the UK, the way this is delivered, but nonetheless
0:33:19 > 0:33:23recognising the significance of that.Alistair Carmichael. Can I
0:33:23 > 0:33:30thank the Secretary of State for the advanced notice of his statement, if
0:33:30 > 0:33:35all minute might have been useful but I understand the channels may
0:33:35 > 0:33:38have been preoccupied with other matters within government that can I
0:33:38 > 0:33:42say to him, I remember the last time we had direct rule from this place
0:33:42 > 0:33:47and it was a thoroughly unsatisfactory way of doing
0:33:47 > 0:33:51business, both for the people of Northern Ireland but also for the
0:33:51 > 0:33:55procedures of this House and he is right to do anything he can to avoid
0:33:55 > 0:34:01that. Can he tell me, has he considered the proposal that has
0:34:01 > 0:34:06come from my noble friend Lord all the guys that notwithstanding the
0:34:06 > 0:34:09Executive, the Assembly itself could be reconvened as a body to which
0:34:09 > 0:34:14reference could be made and could be consulted with by ministers here as
0:34:14 > 0:34:22they go about the was Miss of what they have to do?I welcome the
0:34:22 > 0:34:26comments of the right honourable gentleman and what he says about
0:34:26 > 0:34:30what needs to be the outcome from this which I know he earnestly would
0:34:30 > 0:34:34wish to see which is the same as me, which is the restoration of that
0:34:34 > 0:34:39inclusive functioning devolved government. He points to other
0:34:39 > 0:34:42scenarios and other solutions. I think what I would say to him, I
0:34:42 > 0:34:50think our focus must lie on how we can get that agreement, that is
0:34:50 > 0:34:54where the priority must be. I know there are other points that have we
0:34:54 > 0:34:58made about different ways in which structural meat or constitutionally
0:34:58 > 0:35:04Northern Ireland could operate but I think it's important to offer
0:35:04 > 0:35:08support to the parties at this time. I will continue to reflect on a
0:35:08 > 0:35:13range of points that have been made to me. But at this time I think it's
0:35:13 > 0:35:16important that we keep the focus that we have but noting the points
0:35:16 > 0:35:23that he has made and others have made in recent weeks.Thank you.
0:35:23 > 0:35:26Does the Secretary of State understand the frustration and
0:35:26 > 0:35:31cynicism amongst people in Northern Ireland by the word deadline, the
0:35:31 > 0:35:34changing deadlines has mentored doesn't mean anything. Isn't it time
0:35:34 > 0:35:41when governments mean deadlines they mean something but given nine months
0:35:41 > 0:35:47of parties discussing and no change, what is the magic wand that he
0:35:47 > 0:35:50thinks in the next few weeks is really going to make any difference
0:35:50 > 0:35:54given that one party is quite happy to go back into government right
0:35:54 > 0:35:57away, and to the Assembly and another is putting ridiculous
0:35:57 > 0:36:04demands which were not there at the beginning of the Assembly forming?
0:36:04 > 0:36:11Well do you know what, Mr David is bigger? I certainly do hear that
0:36:11 > 0:36:18frustration. -- Mr Deputy Speaker? That cynicism out in the public in
0:36:18 > 0:36:21Northern Ireland, I know the honourable lady will have heard that
0:36:21 > 0:36:25too, wanting to see government getting on with the job and serving
0:36:25 > 0:36:32them. I do hear that aren't while I know there is huge frustration I
0:36:32 > 0:36:35think frustration, as I sense across the House as well, but we are in
0:36:35 > 0:36:44this position that we are. I said to her that in essence, it's a question
0:36:44 > 0:36:48of taking steps toward saying, you will move straight towards direct
0:36:48 > 0:36:52rule, I profoundly think that would be not the right way to approach
0:36:52 > 0:36:55this because ultimately it is about seeking some space for the parties
0:36:55 > 0:36:59to reach that accommodation and agreement. Yes, this is difficult,
0:36:59 > 0:37:05yes for all the time those involved have spent around us, it is and it
0:37:05 > 0:37:11has been hugely challenging to bridge those gaps that are there. I
0:37:11 > 0:37:17think that it still remains possible but it is certainly difficult and we
0:37:17 > 0:37:21will continue to keep a range of options available to us as to how we
0:37:21 > 0:37:26may support this progress -- process moving forward, how we galvanise a
0:37:26 > 0:37:32positive outcome that we all earnestly want to achieve but
0:37:32 > 0:37:35equally, I know the point that she rightly makes to me is that just
0:37:35 > 0:37:40just cannot continue on, I hear that message very clearly from the House
0:37:40 > 0:37:43and today and the need for Northern Ireland to be able to make
0:37:43 > 0:37:48decisions. But I think it is worth all of us putting all of our efforts
0:37:48 > 0:37:53in to see that we can get a positive solution, to see that the parties
0:37:53 > 0:37:58are able to find a space for it they can work together and get on with
0:37:58 > 0:38:01that job and I would certainly encourage everyone with any
0:38:01 > 0:38:08influence at all to get behind at work.First of all, Secretary of
0:38:08 > 0:38:12State, can I thank you for your statement and industrious energy and
0:38:12 > 0:38:16commitment that you have given to the talks process, we do appreciate
0:38:16 > 0:38:20that. Northern Ireland community groups funding for example, on start
0:38:20 > 0:38:24and other charity groups need to know they will receive funding and
0:38:24 > 0:38:27is a matter of urgency. Who will make this funding decisions as
0:38:27 > 0:38:33Westminster cannot be expected to micromanage and yet someone needs to
0:38:33 > 0:38:37message the state of play across the province? Similarly, Secretary of
0:38:37 > 0:38:41State, the issue when it comes to the funding that Northern Ireland
0:38:41 > 0:38:44will be provided as a matter of urgency in relation to
0:38:44 > 0:38:50infrastructure and the NHS. The projects are to receive most of
0:38:50 > 0:38:53these and this funding is waiting patiently, it's becoming
0:38:53 > 0:38:56increasingly difficult, can I urge you to Secretary of State to do
0:38:56 > 0:39:01something in relation to finance most quickly?In respect of
0:39:01 > 0:39:05financial decisions at the moment, they will remain with the Northern
0:39:05 > 0:39:10Ireland civil service and I take the point that he makes about voluntary
0:39:10 > 0:39:13and community sector organisations, that is a point that I have raised
0:39:13 > 0:39:18with the Northern Ireland civil service on seeking to give as much
0:39:18 > 0:39:22certainty, as much assurance as possible, knowing just how important
0:39:22 > 0:39:27those organisations are in delivering services across Northern
0:39:27 > 0:39:30Ireland. And I pay tribute to all of those groups that do such an
0:39:30 > 0:39:37incredible job. He also points to issues over decisions on
0:39:37 > 0:39:42infrastructure, there are obviously other public sector reforms that we
0:39:42 > 0:39:46would like to see take them forward. It is for the Northern Ireland civil
0:39:46 > 0:39:50service to do that work at this point in time. Obviously we then
0:39:50 > 0:39:55want to see devolved government if that is possible, to move in and
0:39:55 > 0:39:58take those decisions but obviously, there will need to be further
0:39:58 > 0:40:06personal reflection on next steps is that simply isn't possible.I am
0:40:06 > 0:40:09currently the vice-chair of the British and Irish Lions in three
0:40:09 > 0:40:15Assembly and we met in Liverpool and the Minister address that meeting at
0:40:15 > 0:40:17many honourable unbowed honourable members were there, a grouping
0:40:17 > 0:40:22across islands and parties with very different views, able to discuss and
0:40:22 > 0:40:26debate things, very important to have those forums continuing and the
0:40:26 > 0:40:29forums as the result of the Good Friday Agreement, they are critical
0:40:29 > 0:40:33to decisions and conversations that happen there. My experience of this
0:40:33 > 0:40:38place is that people aren't aware of the history, the politics and the
0:40:38 > 0:40:42passions that arise in this House and the statements in this House
0:40:42 > 0:40:46have profound impact on the people of these islands. We must keep those
0:40:46 > 0:40:52other forums going. I've heard today what we don't want, I'm afraid we
0:40:52 > 0:40:56haven't heard a plan for how we get from what we don't want to what we
0:40:56 > 0:41:01do want and it is inexplicable, as my front bench colleague says, the
0:41:01 > 0:41:04Prime Minister has not been able to make the very short journey, less
0:41:04 > 0:41:08than an hour to Northern Ireland to give confidence to the people of
0:41:08 > 0:41:11Northern Ireland that this is one of her highest priorities. I urged the
0:41:11 > 0:41:16government again to encourage the Prime Minister to take that.The
0:41:16 > 0:41:22honourable lady has made a think the important points of the road of
0:41:22 > 0:41:26bodies outside of this House and equally the work of the British and
0:41:26 > 0:41:30are Parliamentary Association and my honourable friend recently attended
0:41:30 > 0:41:33a session in Liverpool as I'm sure she be aware of and I think it's
0:41:33 > 0:41:40helpful to have those forums to be able to debate and exchange views. I
0:41:40 > 0:41:44picture be to all members of this House who support that important
0:41:44 > 0:41:50gauge went. She highlights the role of the Prime Minister, the Prime
0:41:50 > 0:41:54Minister has been very actively engaged with this process, as being
0:41:54 > 0:41:58kept closely informed as the steps are taken and no one should be in
0:41:58 > 0:42:04any doubt at all as to her close interest and desire to see a
0:42:04 > 0:42:11positive outcome to this process. The honourable lady makes the point
0:42:11 > 0:42:16about flying people in and things like that, we will firmly keep all
0:42:16 > 0:42:21options on the table. But our judgements at this point in time is
0:42:21 > 0:42:24that would not have made the difference and therefore it is about
0:42:24 > 0:42:30how we can construct a flea support the two main parties to find a
0:42:30 > 0:42:33resolution on those core issues which we have done, alongside with
0:42:33 > 0:42:37the support of the Irish government, we will continue to support that
0:42:37 > 0:42:41process but yes, we are considering other interventions, other ways in
0:42:41 > 0:42:46which we can constructively help and obviously I will keep the House
0:42:46 > 0:42:49informed as process proceeds in relation to that but knowing that we
0:42:49 > 0:42:53need to see resolution quickly in the best interest of Northern
0:42:53 > 0:42:56Ireland and I hear the point that she makes but it is about getting
0:42:56 > 0:43:00that optimum outcome and using things in the most effective way,
0:43:00 > 0:43:05people, interventions, and using the work of the Prime Minister and the
0:43:05 > 0:43:10Taoiseach the most effective way. The House will know I've had
0:43:10 > 0:43:14long-standing concerns about the intimidation of the two child policy
0:43:14 > 0:43:17and the red tours in Northern Ireland, particularly where there is
0:43:17 > 0:43:22no Assembly in storm to mitigate the specific concerns against section
0:43:22 > 0:43:27five of the criminal Law act which sees third-party referrers such as
0:43:27 > 0:43:32social workers, doctors, nurses, midwives and women's aid workers
0:43:32 > 0:43:38face prosecution for trying to support women. Can he tell me what
0:43:38 > 0:43:41specific discussions has he had with the Northern Ireland Association of
0:43:41 > 0:43:45social workers and can I urge him to speak to his colleagues in the DWP
0:43:45 > 0:43:50and use this as an influence to get rid of the two child policy and the
0:43:50 > 0:43:55red clause before women are harmed? Can I say to the honourable lady I
0:43:55 > 0:43:59think the characterisation that she has given to the House is not quite
0:43:59 > 0:44:03right, there is specific guidance that has been given in respect of
0:44:03 > 0:44:09this but perhaps, I can write to the honourable lady because there are a
0:44:09 > 0:44:13lot of issues, I know a Labour sensitivity attached to this
0:44:13 > 0:44:17disclosure, various other factors and I will write to the honourable
0:44:17 > 0:44:21lady with detail around us, knowing the importance of this and knowing,
0:44:21 > 0:44:25I know the colourful way in which colleagues at the Department for
0:44:25 > 0:44:29Work and Pensions have been looking at this issue, working on this
0:44:29 > 0:44:37locally to ensure these very important issues are
0:44:50 > 0:44:53Northern Ireland remains a deeply divided society. It is all the more
0:44:53 > 0:44:57disappointing that Sinn Fein have decided to put their cultural agenda
0:44:57 > 0:45:02as a barrier to government there. Hundreds of thousands of people from
0:45:02 > 0:45:05across all communities in Northern Ireland are suffering most because
0:45:05 > 0:45:13of the division. Will the secretary of State permit to do all he can to
0:45:13 > 0:45:20minimise the detriment to the people, particularly with regard to
0:45:20 > 0:45:22health, education and public services.I would say to the
0:45:22 > 0:45:30honourable lady that the budget spill brought forward will reflect
0:45:30 > 0:45:34the priorities set by the Northern Ireland civil service so these are
0:45:34 > 0:45:38not the numbers I would set myself on bringing forward the legislation.
0:45:38 > 0:45:45As she will know the Northern Ireland civil service itself has
0:45:45 > 0:45:48reallocated a resource of additional resources around £40 million. Some
0:45:48 > 0:45:55of these pressures within the health service and other services. I'm sure
0:45:55 > 0:45:59she will have that opportunity when we debate the bill to underline
0:45:59 > 0:46:05those important elements, those important factors and where some of
0:46:05 > 0:46:07the pressures like the moment and the need for reform and getting on
0:46:07 > 0:46:22with the job.Thank you, Mr Deputy cap next back speaker. This is
0:46:22 > 0:46:27disappointing now a budget has to be set, can we know what time will be
0:46:27 > 0:46:31devoted to that, I am concerned that by default and more and more powers
0:46:31 > 0:46:37are drifting to this house away from northern Ireland, more emphasis
0:46:37 > 0:46:44needs to be put on that mediation there.Can I amplify what I said in
0:46:44 > 0:46:49respect of the last answer? The budget lines, the numbers that will
0:46:49 > 0:46:56go into the budget bill, this has be approving them, effectively they
0:46:56 > 0:47:01will provide the legal authority for the budgets that the Northern
0:47:01 > 0:47:08Ireland civil service has effectively operated to so far.
0:47:08 > 0:47:14Based on the priorities of the outgoing administration. It should
0:47:14 > 0:47:21not be seen as either me or the government somehow deciding, you
0:47:21 > 0:47:27want to put this budget line here, I would take the recommendations
0:47:27 > 0:47:33provided to me. It's important that I make that clear on the floor of
0:47:33 > 0:47:40the house, this should not be seen as a step towards direct rule, it is
0:47:40 > 0:47:45about implementing and giving statutory authority while
0:47:45 > 0:47:49acknowledging us, this is a serious step, I do not want to be in this
0:47:49 > 0:47:56position but have to be a certain consequence of having that legal
0:47:56 > 0:47:59authority in place by the end of the month and I'm sure that house will
0:47:59 > 0:48:06have the authority to debate the bill when we return from recess.May
0:48:06 > 0:48:13I present the member further in answer to my right honourable friend
0:48:13 > 0:48:16the Minister for Bristol South -- the Member for Bristol South, she
0:48:16 > 0:48:22says she has been to Belfast once. And Cecilia 's point that over the
0:48:22 > 0:48:26last 35 years every Prime Minister has led from the front around
0:48:26 > 0:48:30solutions concerning Northern Ireland including installing
0:48:30 > 0:48:33devolution. Can you set out in the number of hours what her involvement
0:48:33 > 0:48:39has been. No one in this House touts her sincerity in trying to resolve
0:48:39 > 0:48:42matters and restore devolution but there is a point about the Prime
0:48:42 > 0:48:46Minister leading on this, much a dozen Brexit so can I urge you to
0:48:46 > 0:48:56lead from the front on this issue.I say to the honourable gentleman, on
0:48:56 > 0:49:00issues concerning Northern Ireland, you should know that interventions
0:49:00 > 0:49:03by the Prime Minister and the Northern Irish leader in the past --
0:49:03 > 0:49:08the Republic of Ireland Taoiseach in the last have not always been
0:49:08 > 0:49:16welcome. We seek to make the difference in particular
0:49:16 > 0:49:19interventions, and somehow things will suddenly make the difference,
0:49:19 > 0:49:26it is about the parties themselves taking that leave, finding that
0:49:26 > 0:49:29agreement, we will continue to do so and we will keep all options and
0:49:29 > 0:49:36reveal.Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice,
0:49:36 > 0:49:42David Luddington.Mr Deputy Speaker, with permission Irish to make a
0:49:42 > 0:49:45statement on sentencing and government's response to the host
0:49:45 > 0:49:51judgment. -- I wish to make a statement. For years it has been a
0:49:51 > 0:49:54feature of UK law that when someone commits a crime serious enough to
0:49:54 > 0:49:57receive a prison sentence they are deemed to have broken their contract
0:49:57 > 0:50:01with society to such an extent that they should not have the right to
0:50:01 > 0:50:06vote until they are ready to be back in the community. This prohibition
0:50:06 > 0:50:09is currently set out in the representation of the people act
0:50:09 > 0:50:151983 as amended and the principle behind this has been reaffirmed by
0:50:15 > 0:50:22this has most recently in 2011. Successive governments have
0:50:22 > 0:50:31considered the implications of the host judgment in 2005. Labour
0:50:31 > 0:50:37coalition have taken the view that they have not enacted any change to
0:50:37 > 0:50:43legislation. Convicted offenders detained in prison should not vote.
0:50:43 > 0:50:48Certainly we do not show the position taken by the Leader of the
0:50:48 > 0:50:51Opposition that all presidents should be enfranchised, regardless
0:50:51 > 0:50:56of the length of sentence or the gravity of the crime. The United
0:50:56 > 0:50:59Kingdom, Mr Deputy Speaker, has a proud constitutional tradition and
0:50:59 > 0:51:06it is clearly right that we uphold our obligations. But the British
0:51:06 > 0:51:11government expects us to do that in our overweight, consistent with
0:51:11 > 0:51:18British values of rights and responsibilities. In December 2016,
0:51:18 > 0:51:23the government gave a formal and public commitment to ministers of
0:51:23 > 0:51:27the Council of Europe, the body representing its members that we
0:51:27 > 0:51:31would comment on the meeting month, provide proposals to address the
0:51:31 > 0:51:36host judgment. Since then, the government has considered this issue
0:51:36 > 0:51:43carefully. We have decided to oppose administrative changes to address
0:51:43 > 0:51:51the points raised in the 2005 judgment while maintaining the bar
0:51:51 > 0:51:54that prisoners in judicial custody should not vote. We will work first
0:51:54 > 0:52:00with the judiciary to make it clear to criminals when they are
0:52:00 > 0:52:04sentenced, and when they are in prison this means they will lose the
0:52:04 > 0:52:07right to vote. This addresses a specific concern of the Hirst
0:52:07 > 0:52:10judgment that there was not enough clarity in confirming to offenders
0:52:10 > 0:52:17but they cannot vote in prison. Secondly we will amend guidance to
0:52:17 > 0:52:22address an anomaly in the current system, where offenders released
0:52:22 > 0:52:27back into the community on licence using an electronic tag under the
0:52:27 > 0:52:32home detention review scheme can vote under the present arrangements
0:52:32 > 0:52:36but both in the community -- those in the community on temporary
0:52:36 > 0:52:43licence cannot vote. Release on temporary licence is to typically
0:52:43 > 0:52:47used to allow offenders to commute from prison to employment in the
0:52:47 > 0:52:53community and so prepare themselves for their return to society. We
0:52:53 > 0:52:57believe that reinstating the civic right of voting on this point is
0:52:57 > 0:53:04consistent with that approach. Release on temporary licence is not
0:53:04 > 0:53:09an automatic entitlement and every case is subject to rigorous risk
0:53:09 > 0:53:16assessment. These measures am announcing today do not involve any
0:53:16 > 0:53:19changes in those criteria for temporary release. And no offenders
0:53:19 > 0:53:26will be granted release in order to vote. We expect this change to
0:53:26 > 0:53:30temporary licence arrangements to affect about 100 offenders at any
0:53:30 > 0:53:35one time. And none of them will be able to vote from prison or to
0:53:35 > 0:53:41register the prison is the home address. A prisoner would have to
0:53:41 > 0:53:45have satisfied the conditions for registration at a genuine home
0:53:45 > 0:53:53address. This measure will require no changes to the representation of
0:53:53 > 0:53:59the people act 1983 but instead will entail a change to preserve his
0:53:59 > 0:54:02guidance. Our relationship with the Council of Europe is a reserved
0:54:02 > 0:54:08matter the settlement is that we will certainly work with the three
0:54:08 > 0:54:13dissolved administrations on this issue. In particular we shall work
0:54:13 > 0:54:16hard and with the relevant administrations to reflect the
0:54:16 > 0:54:19differences in law and practice in Scotland and Northern Ireland
0:54:19 > 0:54:27respectively. And we have informed the devolved administrations on this
0:54:27 > 0:54:32matter across the UK. We believe that these changes do address the
0:54:32 > 0:54:37points raised in the 2005 judgment and do so in a way that respects the
0:54:37 > 0:54:40clear direction of successive parliaments and the strong views of
0:54:40 > 0:54:46the British public. I commend this statement to the House.Thank you,
0:54:46 > 0:54:51Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter
0:54:51 > 0:54:54today, I would like to thank the Secretary of State for sharing his
0:54:54 > 0:54:58statement in the last hour. This is a matter that has been given greater
0:54:58 > 0:55:03prominence over the past decade due to rulings that found that the UK
0:55:03 > 0:55:07was in breach of its international human rights obligations. As the
0:55:07 > 0:55:14house is a web prisoners serving custodial sentence to not have the
0:55:14 > 0:55:18right to vote in any elections. As the Secretary of State has said this
0:55:18 > 0:55:23blanket ban is set out in the representation of the people act
0:55:23 > 0:55:301983. Since 2005 the blanket ban has been ruled unlawful by the Court of
0:55:30 > 0:55:35Human Rights as mentioned in the Hirst case. There have been
0:55:35 > 0:55:38subsequent rulings since that 2005 decision that have offered further
0:55:38 > 0:55:48clarity as what is required by law. The 2015 ruling of the Court of
0:55:48 > 0:55:51Justice depriving certain prisoners convicted for serious crimes such as
0:55:51 > 0:55:58murder of the right to vote was not an unlawful breach of the right of
0:55:58 > 0:56:05EU citizens. Likewise the UK Supreme Court has dismissed appeals that
0:56:05 > 0:56:13prisoners serving life sentences for murder should be able to vote. Most
0:56:13 > 0:56:18would feel about was very sensible. The question remains how do we meet
0:56:18 > 0:56:24our obligations in terms of the ruling against a blanket ban. This
0:56:24 > 0:56:30House has grappled with the issue since 2005. Following the Hirst
0:56:30 > 0:56:33judgment in 2005 the Labour government began a consultation on
0:56:33 > 0:56:38the question of prisoner voting. The Ministry of Justice published a
0:56:38 > 0:56:43consultation paper in 2009 indicating that some limited
0:56:43 > 0:56:47enfranchisement of prisoners ought to occur but made it clear that a
0:56:47 > 0:56:50final decision on the scope the franchise must be made by Parliament
0:56:50 > 0:56:58itself and it was shortly after the 2010 general election that the
0:56:58 > 0:57:01Conservative- Liberal Democrat coalition announced that offenders
0:57:01 > 0:57:04sentenced to less than four is in custody would have the right to vote
0:57:04 > 0:57:09in Westminster Parliament elections and European parliamentary elections
0:57:09 > 0:57:14except when the judge considered this inappropriate when making the
0:57:14 > 0:57:19sentence. It was soon after coming 2011 at the political and
0:57:19 > 0:57:22constitutional reform committee published a report stating that
0:57:22 > 0:57:26while the current ban on prisoner voting may be morally justifiable,
0:57:26 > 0:57:34it was a breach of international law. Mr Speaker, as a nation, we
0:57:34 > 0:57:37pride ourselves on adherence to the rule of law. I believe we also take
0:57:37 > 0:57:43pride in being a nation that abides by our commitments. Our respect for
0:57:43 > 0:57:48the rule of law is something that has led to our legal system being so
0:57:48 > 0:57:54well regarded around the world that our legal services are exported
0:57:54 > 0:57:59internationally and contribute vastly to the UK economy. So today
0:57:59 > 0:58:04is an opportunity to discuss exactly how we will meet our commitments
0:58:04 > 0:58:10following the 2005 ruling. Mr Speaker I hope the slowness this
0:58:10 > 0:58:13government has shown in responding to this issue does not set a
0:58:13 > 0:58:18precedent for taking over a decade to address our international
0:58:18 > 0:58:25obligations to uphold human rights, I think we should be clear that if
0:58:25 > 0:58:30we are signed up to the International Convention of human
0:58:30 > 0:58:34rights we are bound by its judgment and bound by those human rights
0:58:34 > 0:58:40laws. And what this debate should be about is not whether we should meet
0:58:40 > 0:58:45our duties, that is non-negotiable and it is disappointing that some
0:58:45 > 0:58:47members have suggested that we ignore human rights law, this debate
0:58:47 > 0:58:52is about how we meet our duties and requirements. And specifically
0:58:52 > 0:59:00today's discussion is whether the proposals from the government today
0:59:00 > 0:59:05do meet that threshold and satisfy our obligations to uphold human
0:59:05 > 0:59:15rights. Members say of course they do, but we need reassurance on this
0:59:15 > 0:59:18matter because the Secretary of State has said that prisoners less
0:59:18 > 0:59:23sentenced to less than one year in jail allowed out on day release will
0:59:23 > 0:59:26be allowed out to vote. I think we need to know what discussions and
0:59:26 > 0:59:32what assurances the Minister, the Secretary of State has had with
0:59:32 > 0:59:35lawyers to ensure that this proposal today does bring us in line with
0:59:35 > 0:59:39human rights. Because the last thing that this House once as a Secretary
0:59:39 > 0:59:43of State having to come back at some stage in the future and explain that
0:59:43 > 0:59:50sadly, this hasn't satisfied the test and isn't fulfilling our
0:59:50 > 0:59:53international obligations and our commitments. I'm sure the government
0:59:53 > 0:59:58doesn't want that and we certainly don't want it either. Finally Mr
0:59:58 > 1:00:02Speaker manners of this House including this week have pointed out
1:00:02 > 1:00:06that this is part of rehabilitation of the people and I would finally
1:00:06 > 1:00:11like to use this opportunity to express my disappointment that the
1:00:11 > 1:00:16statutory duty on prisons to rehabilitate offenders and thus
1:00:16 > 1:00:21reduce the number of victims and keep society safer was dropped and
1:00:21 > 1:00:30hopefully this will be looked at again in due course.
1:00:30 > 1:00:36Mr Speaker I think I rather gathered during that response of the
1:00:36 > 1:00:39opposition spokesman wasn't offering any specific criticisms about the
1:00:39 > 1:00:44proposals outlined today.I can give him very clear assurance that we
1:00:44 > 1:00:50have taken the best advice possible, we believe this set of proposals
1:00:50 > 1:00:56does comply with our international legal obligations following the
1:00:56 > 1:01:01first judgement. Obviously this set of proposals will have to be
1:01:01 > 1:01:04considered by the committee of ministers at its forthcoming
1:01:04 > 1:01:10meeting. I mean, I have to say to the honourable gentleman, it's a bit
1:01:10 > 1:01:16rich for him to chide me about the pace at which this matter has been
1:01:16 > 1:01:20addressed. He himself said in his response that it took the Labour
1:01:20 > 1:01:26government under whose watch the Hearst case after all was heard and
1:01:26 > 1:01:31decided, four years to get round to publishing the answers to their own
1:01:31 > 1:01:37consultation paper. And I haven't heard, you know, the years I have
1:01:37 > 1:01:40served in this place, Labour Home Secretary is Justice Secretary is
1:01:40 > 1:01:43exactly rushing forward to the dispatch box to announce they have
1:01:43 > 1:01:53the answer, I hope that there will be a broad agreement across the
1:01:53 > 1:01:56parties to support the general approach that I have outlined and I
1:01:56 > 1:02:04certainly I would say that the call of human rights has on more than one
1:02:04 > 1:02:08occasion made it clear that regardless of specific circumstances
1:02:08 > 1:02:14of the Hearst judgement, there is no requirement to in franchise all
1:02:14 > 1:02:18prisoners and I hope that message will have been conveyed by now to
1:02:18 > 1:02:22the Leader of the Opposition and indeed many, many members of the
1:02:22 > 1:02:28Council of Europe, established, mature democracies like our own,
1:02:28 > 1:02:31maintain a strict bar against a serious offenders from voting.
1:02:31 > 1:02:38Robert Neill.Thank you very much. Can I start by congratulating the
1:02:38 > 1:02:41Secretary of State for having grasped the nettle that none of his
1:02:41 > 1:02:45predecessors have done and he deserves congratulations and a warm
1:02:45 > 1:02:50round of applause for it. Will he confirm to me that in achieving this
1:02:50 > 1:02:54we put ourselves into must exactly the same position as every other
1:02:54 > 1:02:59mature democracy in western Europe and indeed pretty much the same
1:02:59 > 1:03:04position as 40 out of the 50 odd states in the United States of
1:03:04 > 1:03:07America work they do not feel the need for a blanket and of the kind
1:03:07 > 1:03:11characterised in the Hearst judgement?I am grateful to my
1:03:11 > 1:03:15honourable friend for his comments and I can confirm the point that he
1:03:15 > 1:03:20made to the House.Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to
1:03:20 > 1:03:27thank the Secretary of State for his statement and for writing to my
1:03:27 > 1:03:34colleague the Scottish Government Cabinet Secretary bridge justice
1:03:34 > 1:03:37this is a difficult issue and I welcome the fact that the UK
1:03:37 > 1:03:44Government are taking steps to respect the ruling of the European
1:03:44 > 1:03:49Court of Human Rights. Many people across the UK at first disagreed
1:03:49 > 1:03:54with that decision but I think we heard some quite eloquent
1:03:54 > 1:03:57explanation is justice questions earlier this week as to why it is
1:03:57 > 1:04:03appropriate for the government to grasp the nettle. In Scotland, the
1:04:03 > 1:04:06Scottish Parliament's equality committee is currently looking at
1:04:06 > 1:04:09this very issue and taking evidence and looking at practical points
1:04:09 > 1:04:13about whether devolved powers could be used to address this issue in
1:04:13 > 1:04:16relation to the franchise for a Scottish Parliament is and the
1:04:16 > 1:04:21Scottish Government will respond to that in due course. Will the
1:04:21 > 1:04:24Minister, the Secretary of State confirm that the UK have it will
1:04:24 > 1:04:28work with the Scottish Government going forward on this issue to reach
1:04:28 > 1:04:31this would have cross-party agreement required for this sort of
1:04:31 > 1:04:40reform?Iamb very concerned indeed that both my officials and my
1:04:40 > 1:04:43ministers and myself should work very closely with Michael Matheson
1:04:43 > 1:04:47the Scottish Justice Minister and his colleagues and officials in
1:04:47 > 1:04:54Edinburgh. I am very well aware in my current responsibilities, of the
1:04:54 > 1:04:59importance of recognising the Scottish legal system, legal
1:04:59 > 1:05:02tradition is distinct from that of England and Wales and we need to
1:05:02 > 1:05:06mature we have a policy that works as effectively in Scotland as a DOS
1:05:06 > 1:05:11and the rest of the UK.Can I add my congratulations to my right
1:05:11 > 1:05:15honourable friend who after many years has arrived at what I think is
1:05:15 > 1:05:19an elegant and sensible solution. He will be aware in the Council of
1:05:19 > 1:05:22Europe it caused great consternation that the UK was unable to comply
1:05:22 > 1:05:26with these judgements and it led to talk even of the UK leading the
1:05:26 > 1:05:30Council of Europe chapter all we were a founding member of by the
1:05:30 > 1:05:37Treaty of London. Can he confirm that we leave the company of the
1:05:37 > 1:05:41countries of Armenia, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary and Russia
1:05:41 > 1:05:43that remained the only countries in the Council of Europe is still have
1:05:43 > 1:05:54a blanket and?Well I probably would not be wise of me to comment in
1:05:54 > 1:05:57detail about the systems and operations in each of those
1:05:57 > 1:06:04countries but what I can confirm and also thank my right arm for friend
1:06:04 > 1:06:08that we are going to be standing in the company of the great majority of
1:06:08 > 1:06:18established mocker sees in Europe. As one of 22 members who voted
1:06:18 > 1:06:23against the blanket ban in 2011, this small step forward is mildly
1:06:23 > 1:06:26welcomed but with the right honourable gentleman accept that
1:06:26 > 1:06:35it's a missed opportunity, better to sentencing objectives for the ride
1:06:35 > 1:06:39of a prisoner to vote or not to vote and in particular as he said in his
1:06:39 > 1:06:44statement a moment ago, reinstating the civic right of voting is
1:06:44 > 1:06:47consistent with the rehabilitative approach for rehabilitation is
1:06:47 > 1:06:52identified as a sentence as a specific sentencing objectives,
1:06:52 > 1:06:56should that person not have discretion to consider whether the
1:06:56 > 1:07:01individual has a right to vote? I understand the printable position in
1:07:01 > 1:07:06which the honourable lady approaches this, I do think it's right there
1:07:06 > 1:07:13should be consistency set by the government and Parliament through
1:07:13 > 1:07:15the appropriate registration, representation of the people act in
1:07:15 > 1:07:21how we approach these matters. And I think that what the government is
1:07:21 > 1:07:29proposing today does provide both clarity and consistency and enables
1:07:29 > 1:07:33us to go forward in a way that respects the strong views expressed
1:07:33 > 1:07:38in this House and amongst the wider British public whilst at the same
1:07:38 > 1:07:43time respecting our international legal obligations.Thank you Mr
1:07:43 > 1:07:47Deputy Speaker. May I welcome the statement on the approach taken by
1:07:47 > 1:07:50my right honourable friend in resolving this matter? As he will be
1:07:50 > 1:07:54aware it's one of those Robin Eames that has bedevilled many law
1:07:54 > 1:07:58officers of the Crown in the past and I have no doubt his right
1:07:58 > 1:08:01honourable friend the Attorney General will be breathing a sigh of
1:08:01 > 1:08:05relief if this matter can be resolved along the lines that he
1:08:05 > 1:08:11suggests. Does he agree with me that it is really of immense importance
1:08:11 > 1:08:17for this country to be seen to be a leader in human rights? Something
1:08:17 > 1:08:22for which we have a great deal of international respect and for which
1:08:22 > 1:08:27we have a proven track record of improving human rights, not only on
1:08:27 > 1:08:31the European continent but further afield? And that sending out a clear
1:08:31 > 1:08:35signal of our willingness to try to adhere to an international legal
1:08:35 > 1:08:39obligation is of the utmost importance and may I also just say
1:08:39 > 1:08:44this? Should it be necessary to come back to this House because what he
1:08:44 > 1:08:49has done proves in some way not to quite meet matters, I hope it won't
1:08:49 > 1:08:54be necessary, it ought to be part of a wider debate about how we
1:08:54 > 1:09:00rehabilitate prisoners and one on which actually when one removes the
1:09:00 > 1:09:03issue of our international, legal obligations, does merit debate and I
1:09:03 > 1:09:08think you might well find that if he were to ask the House for its
1:09:08 > 1:09:11opinion on that, it might not be the same opinion as has been expressed
1:09:11 > 1:09:17in the past.I am very grateful to my right honourable and Bernard Fred
1:09:17 > 1:09:25for his support. Cars right honourable and learn and friend. I
1:09:25 > 1:09:35share his commitment to doing all that we can to make sure our prisons
1:09:35 > 1:09:39are effective agents of rehabilitation because effective
1:09:39 > 1:09:41rehabilitation that then reduces the cycle of reoffending is something
1:09:41 > 1:09:47that we be in the interests of the safety, security of everybody living
1:09:47 > 1:09:52in this country. Secondly I believe that my right honourable and learned
1:09:52 > 1:09:59friend is right when he speaks about the importance of respecting
1:09:59 > 1:10:05international obligations. We do and we rightly talk about British
1:10:05 > 1:10:12values, we seek in our various expressions of policy, to embody and
1:10:12 > 1:10:21represent those values and amongst those values are respect for the
1:10:21 > 1:10:26rule of law and for a rules -based international order and it is
1:10:26 > 1:10:33certainly harder to urge respect for those principles in others if we are
1:10:33 > 1:10:38not clear about doing so ourselves. So I think for those reasons the
1:10:38 > 1:10:43package that I have announced today represents a clear and also I hope,
1:10:43 > 1:10:51effective way forward.Liz McInnis. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
1:10:51 > 1:10:54This government has introduced a system of Universal Credit on the
1:10:54 > 1:10:58basis of myrrh the world of work so why can't we considered the same
1:10:58 > 1:11:01logic and say prisoners are prepared for life outside prison by
1:11:01 > 1:11:08maintaining her civic right by maintaining their right to a vote?I
1:11:08 > 1:11:12am not sure whether the honourable lady was urging that all prisoners
1:11:12 > 1:11:17should be enfranchised regardless of the seriousness of the crime or the
1:11:17 > 1:11:23length of sentence but I think that was the indication of what she said.
1:11:23 > 1:11:33What I've announced today does relate to the enfranchisement and in
1:11:33 > 1:11:38effective rehabilitation and I would disagree with her but we should
1:11:38 > 1:11:43depart from the principle that people, irrespective, people who are
1:11:43 > 1:11:47sentenced to prison and if you are sentenced to custody that means the
1:11:47 > 1:11:51Court must have considered every alternative penalty and decided that
1:11:51 > 1:11:56the crime had been so serious that no other punishment would suffice,
1:11:56 > 1:12:01if you find yourself as a prisoner in those circumstances I think it is
1:12:01 > 1:12:05reasonable to say and for the prisoner to be told clearly, they
1:12:05 > 1:12:10have forfeited the right to vote as a consequence.Victoria Prentice.
1:12:10 > 1:12:14Madam Deputy Speaker I conducted the Hearst litigation on behalf of the
1:12:14 > 1:12:18government in the domestic courts and I remember only too well that
1:12:18 > 1:12:21governments of both colours have found there is a very difficult area
1:12:21 > 1:12:28to do with for many years. So I add my congratulations to those and the
1:12:28 > 1:12:31chairman of my Select Committee and two others in the south that they
1:12:31 > 1:12:35find a solution which is not only elegant but sensible. I would
1:12:35 > 1:12:40however as the Lord Chancellor to reassure people outside this House
1:12:40 > 1:12:44but serving prisoners, such as Mr Hirst will not in fact be covered by
1:12:44 > 1:12:50these new rules and would not be able to vote.I am grateful to my
1:12:50 > 1:12:56honourable friend for her support. I think that it would be unlikely in
1:12:56 > 1:13:03the extreme, first of all for somebody who is serving a long-term
1:13:03 > 1:13:08prison sentence and had a record of violence and posing a risk to public
1:13:08 > 1:13:10health to qualify for release on relicensing the first place and
1:13:10 > 1:13:16also, for anybody serving a long sentence, in practical terms, to be
1:13:16 > 1:13:22able to demonstrate that they had a continuing home residents of Obama
1:13:22 > 1:13:24out of a prison and they would not be allowed to register at the
1:13:24 > 1:13:33prison.Emma Little Pengelly. I thank the Secretary of State for
1:13:33 > 1:13:37your statement, in relation to this issue it will impact in Northern
1:13:37 > 1:13:40Ireland, can I ask the Secretary of State what intentions he has two
1:13:40 > 1:13:45consult in Northern Ireland and given the unfortunate ongoing
1:13:45 > 1:13:49situation of no government in Northern Ireland, how will he find
1:13:49 > 1:13:53is all and to ensure full consultation can happen?I am
1:13:53 > 1:13:58grateful to the honourable lady and I realise both the sensitivity of
1:13:58 > 1:14:02this issue given the history of Northern Ireland and the problematic
1:14:02 > 1:14:06political circumstances in which Northern Ireland finds itself. We
1:14:06 > 1:14:11have notified officials in the Justice Department of our intentions
1:14:11 > 1:14:16and we will continue very closely consultation and collaboration with
1:14:16 > 1:14:23them on the way forward so we are confident we are addressing the
1:14:23 > 1:14:26particular administrative and legal circumstances of Northern Ireland
1:14:26 > 1:14:32and I'm happy to give an undertaking to consult also the honourable
1:14:32 > 1:14:35lady's party and the other leading political parties in Northern
1:14:35 > 1:14:42Ireland so that we are able to take their views into account.
1:14:42 > 1:14:51As they put Crow call were we to restore penal servitude with hard
1:14:51 > 1:14:57Labour they would be plenty of votes about.Secretary of State. I think
1:14:57 > 1:15:03that takes me onto wider territory then the subject of the debate, I
1:15:03 > 1:15:06thought my honourable friend was about to suggest transportation and
1:15:06 > 1:15:13I think the territories are no longer available!I was one of those
1:15:13 > 1:15:18in 2011 voted against a blanket ban and I haven't changed my views. This
1:15:18 > 1:15:23is a very tiny concession by the government, the bare minimum it
1:15:23 > 1:15:26could get away with. I believe that when you imprison someone you
1:15:26 > 1:15:32deprive them of their liberty, not of their rights. Why does the
1:15:32 > 1:15:39Minister feel so threatened by that. The active depriving someone of
1:15:39 > 1:15:46their liberty, I would have thought that deprive them of some vital
1:15:46 > 1:15:50civic rights. What we are doing today I think is a sensible,
1:15:50 > 1:15:59constructive way forward, that we believe complies with the
1:15:59 > 1:16:03requirements and us under law, but we are doing so in a way that
1:16:03 > 1:16:09respects the view repeatedly come to buy this house. Philip Davies.Thank
1:16:09 > 1:16:16you. Giving the vote to any prisoners, think, is idiotic,
1:16:16 > 1:16:20unjustifiable and about as popular with the public as finding a
1:16:20 > 1:16:27rattlesnake in a lucky dip. As the Secretary of State has made so
1:16:27 > 1:16:33plain, he must know that the human rights went way beyond conventional
1:16:33 > 1:16:39and he made this rule is perhaps you might want to remind them of their
1:16:39 > 1:16:44obligations under the rule of law, it seems that he's put in the
1:16:44 > 1:16:47rulings of unelected, unaccountable pseudo- judges, many of whom Hall
1:16:47 > 1:16:50are not proper judges in their own country, above the views of the
1:16:50 > 1:16:53British public and the British Parliament is a witty and least of
1:16:53 > 1:16:59the courtesy to bring this code to this house to make sure that what he
1:16:59 > 1:17:03proposes as the consent of the British Parliament.Madam Deputy
1:17:03 > 1:17:12Speaker we are not proposing any change in the British law. Any
1:17:12 > 1:17:16commitment to stay within the European Convention on human rights
1:17:16 > 1:17:19which includes the jurisdiction of the Court of Human Rights was in the
1:17:19 > 1:17:22party manifesto on which both my honourable friend the Member for
1:17:22 > 1:17:27Shipley and I stood earlier this year. Where I do actually find
1:17:27 > 1:17:33myself in agreement with him is that it is important to look for ways in
1:17:33 > 1:17:39which to respect and enlarge the margin of appreciation that is
1:17:39 > 1:17:50allowed to individual member states in interpreting the duties under the
1:17:50 > 1:17:52convention, in the light of constitutional and legal traditions.
1:17:52 > 1:17:58We made a significant step forward when the United Kingdom held the
1:17:58 > 1:18:04chair of the Council of Europe and the declaration which was negotiated
1:18:04 > 1:18:08by my right honourable and learn and friend the Member for Rushcliffe,
1:18:08 > 1:18:12and in taking the Brighton declaration Ford and seeking to
1:18:12 > 1:18:17implement protocol 15 I hope we can count on the support of my
1:18:17 > 1:18:24honourable friend. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I unreservedly
1:18:24 > 1:18:28welcomed the decision that has been made and it complies with our
1:18:28 > 1:18:35obligations to the ECA chart, and why we're on the subject, I would
1:18:35 > 1:18:39like to confirm that we win most of the cases we take to those chosen by
1:18:39 > 1:18:46wonder if he would consider doing a more detailed review for the members
1:18:46 > 1:18:50of the council who are also members of this chamber because it would be
1:18:50 > 1:18:55useful to have that when we got back to Strasberg. Secretary of State.
1:18:55 > 1:18:59I'm grateful to my honourable friend for his support and happy to offer
1:18:59 > 1:19:04the briefing he requests for members of the delegation from this
1:19:04 > 1:19:09Parliament to the members of the assembly for Europe. He is writing
1:19:09 > 1:19:18what says about cases brought against the United Kingdom. Many
1:19:18 > 1:19:28cases don't even get to a judgment, they are rejected by the court as
1:19:28 > 1:19:34inadmissible. That tiny minority of cases but offend against us, we have
1:19:34 > 1:19:41a good track record.David Cameron said it made him feel physically
1:19:41 > 1:19:46sick to think about giving prisoners the right to vote and many of us
1:19:46 > 1:19:52feel the same nausea and many of our constituents as well. I congratulate
1:19:52 > 1:19:56the Lord Chancellor on overcoming his nausea. He makes great play in
1:19:56 > 1:20:03the statement, he says, while they are impression, that means he will
1:20:03 > 1:20:07lose the right to vote. If their temporary licence, polling day, does
1:20:07 > 1:20:11not fall on a day when they are at a prison presumably they will have the
1:20:11 > 1:20:14right to request a postal vote, registered at the address outside
1:20:14 > 1:20:18the prison but it could be delivered to them in prison. Will the Lord
1:20:18 > 1:20:24Chancellor make sure that cannot happen?We will obviously, as we
1:20:24 > 1:20:32work with the detail of this, ensure we have safeguards against any part
1:20:32 > 1:20:39of electoral fraud but like people on home detention curfew, and the
1:20:39 > 1:20:44current arrangements, the franchise would exist on polling day on the
1:20:44 > 1:20:51assumption that people were out on polling day. We will certainly be
1:20:51 > 1:20:56working through the detail, following what I hope will be a
1:20:56 > 1:21:03successful outcome to the meeting. The prize for patients goes to James
1:21:03 > 1:21:06Cleverly! Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As a result of this
1:21:06 > 1:21:12decision, the fact that current prisoners are not eligible to vote
1:21:12 > 1:21:16will now be better communicated to them at the onset of their sentence,
1:21:16 > 1:21:25so could I ask the secretary of state what plans he is put in place
1:21:25 > 1:21:30to ensure it is effectively communicated to the prisoners and
1:21:30 > 1:21:34the returning officers in the areas where they are registered about.I'm
1:21:34 > 1:21:37grateful to my honourable friend for that question. On the first point
1:21:37 > 1:21:40will speak to the judiciary and we've notified about this statement
1:21:40 > 1:21:46to understand their views on the best means of communicating this to
1:21:46 > 1:21:51people at the point of sentence. The most probable outcome at this stage
1:21:51 > 1:21:54would seem to me to look at the wording of the warrant of the
1:21:54 > 1:22:03committal pursued when a sentence prisoner is put into custody. His
1:22:03 > 1:22:06other point about electoral registration officers, as he will
1:22:06 > 1:22:14know, guidance for ER owes is something that is the responsibility
1:22:14 > 1:22:18of the Electoral Commission and we will speak to them how they would
1:22:18 > 1:22:27wish to take this forward.Thank you. We now come to the backbench
1:22:27 > 1:22:32motion on Calais and non-accompanied child refugees on Europe. I call
1:22:32 > 1:22:39Heidi Allen to the motion.Thank you very much Madam Deputy Speaker. And
1:22:39 > 1:22:42also the members of the committee and those who supported me to allow
1:22:42 > 1:22:47this debate to be heard in this House. A special mention to members
1:22:47 > 1:22:54of Walthamstow, and, forgive me, my fellow sponsors. One of the hardest
1:22:54 > 1:22:59things about this job is maintaining a focus on important issues,
1:22:59 > 1:23:05especially when headlines and news stories so readily grab the
1:23:05 > 1:23:09attention of the media. So it is our responsibility to continue to give a
1:23:09 > 1:23:15voice to those whose voices otherwise may not be heard, like the
1:23:15 > 1:23:18most vulnerable, children who have fled the most unimaginable terror of
1:23:18 > 1:23:25war and found themselves alone and without family in Europe. The
1:23:25 > 1:23:37squalid refugee camp was demolished, there are still refugee children in
1:23:37 > 1:23:44Calais, and all over Italy. Prior to the Calais demolition we transferred
1:23:44 > 1:23:49750 children to the UK, 200 and the tabs amendment and the rest and
1:23:49 > 1:23:58roles. The youngest child that remains there is nine. Must have
1:23:58 > 1:24:04fled Afghanistan, 2950 registered today in Greece. 90% of the 13,687
1:24:04 > 1:24:08children who have arrived in Italy so far just this year and
1:24:08 > 1:24:12non-accompanied. From the very first time this subject was debated in
1:24:12 > 1:24:15this house, I and others have maintained that if we did not help
1:24:15 > 1:24:24further downstream, more would arrive at our shores. Not necessary
1:24:24 > 1:24:28and indescribably dangerous journeys, and not the
1:24:28 > 1:24:31well-organised, compassion and welcome we would want to offer those
1:24:31 > 1:24:35terrified young people. We currently have to schemes by which we can
1:24:35 > 1:24:39offer sanctuary to children in Europe. Many in this chamber were
1:24:39 > 1:24:44disappointed that the tabs amendment did not manifest itself in a more
1:24:44 > 1:24:49generous number of children, places that the unaccompanied ones -- the
1:24:49 > 1:24:54Dubs Amendment. Local authorities determined that 480 was as many as
1:24:54 > 1:24:57they could take. We have learned this morning cup High Court
1:24:57 > 1:25:01challenge has favoured the government. The context, Madam
1:25:01 > 1:25:06Deputy Speaker, 480 is half a percent of the total number of
1:25:06 > 1:25:11refugee children so far arriving in Europe. That's not even one per
1:25:11 > 1:25:18constituency. Legal case aside, I for the record remained disappointed
1:25:18 > 1:25:25by our contribution. It does not stand proudly next to the figure of
1:25:25 > 1:25:3020,000 refugees that we will recite from the Syrian region by 2022 the
1:25:30 > 1:25:37vulnerable persons resettlement scheme apart from the obvious moral
1:25:37 > 1:25:42Imp and crisis, we have a duty to deal with the crisis of Europe, this
1:25:42 > 1:25:48is to me what a dip in special relationship would be like.I very
1:25:48 > 1:25:53much appreciated, the honourable lady is making an excellent speech
1:25:53 > 1:25:56and I commend her for her work on this. She is my new neighbour. In
1:25:56 > 1:26:04the city of Cambridge there have been 100 families with a problem to
1:26:04 > 1:26:10host refugee children. Which agree with me that the government needs to
1:26:10 > 1:26:19respond more positively to the kind of generosity we see in communities
1:26:19 > 1:26:27across the country.I agree, legal case aside that the public did not
1:26:27 > 1:26:31feel that the general consultation had not exhausted as Apple is and
1:26:31 > 1:26:33I'm convinced that in my constituency that are still
1:26:33 > 1:26:37businesses and families that want to help. We had a safeguarding strategy
1:26:37 > 1:26:40published yesterday which will come onto it and I think that opens a
1:26:40 > 1:26:43window of opportunity to take benefit from those offers because it
1:26:43 > 1:26:48would be unforgivable for us not to use them. In Calais children are
1:26:48 > 1:26:51still sleeping outdoors, at the mercy of the elements, and the
1:26:51 > 1:27:04police because the official shelter that the French government has
1:27:04 > 1:27:06provided can only has 60. In Greece more than 1800 children are waiting
1:27:06 > 1:27:09for a space insert shelter and when they get there they will find it is
1:27:09 > 1:27:12in fact it is used prison. In Italy the situation is even more chaotic.
1:27:12 > 1:27:14Whilst I understand our ability to influence local arrangements is
1:27:14 > 1:27:17limited we have an ability to set clear parameters with our foreign
1:27:17 > 1:27:22counterparts to allow them to rapidly identify any child who might
1:27:22 > 1:27:29be eligible for the Dubs scheme. So one charity tells me that only 20
1:27:29 > 1:27:33children have been transferred via Dubs in the last 12 months and only
1:27:33 > 1:27:38a handful have come into Britain, and I understand none at all from
1:27:38 > 1:27:43Greece. As 18 months since I last visited Lesbos. Can we honestly say
1:27:43 > 1:27:47we've done everything we can? If we say we've taken 200 from Calais
1:27:47 > 1:27:52there are still 280 Dubs places to be filled. I'm looking to ask the
1:27:52 > 1:27:57Minister if he believes our criteria have been misunderstood, are they
1:27:57 > 1:28:02too tight, should we look at the cut-off date of March 20 16. Can we
1:28:02 > 1:28:06quickly identify the remaining 280? I hope to hear from the Minister how
1:28:06 > 1:28:12he will fill those spaces as soon as possible. Call me sentimental, but
1:28:12 > 1:28:17can we aim for Christmas? This debate is not just about Dubs. I
1:28:17 > 1:28:21seek reassurance on what happens to Dublin three once we leave the EU
1:28:21 > 1:28:25and its legislation. Despite textbook policy suggesting our
1:28:25 > 1:28:28domestic asylum registration should already allow a non-accompanied
1:28:28 > 1:28:33child refugee to be reunited with wider family, grandparents,
1:28:33 > 1:28:36siblings, uncles, aunts, in practice this isn't happening. What can the
1:28:36 > 1:28:42Minister say about his to improve all and our legislation so it does
1:28:42 > 1:28:47what it says on the tin. Can we have confidence that the spirit of Dublin
1:28:47 > 1:28:53three will exist, post-Brexit? Might our negotiations allow us to stay in
1:28:53 > 1:28:57Dublin three? Clarity on this point really matters. Knowing we will
1:28:57 > 1:29:01continue to the century to the most vulnerable children in the world is
1:29:01 > 1:29:06as important to them as is the depth of charity and benevolence that
1:29:06 > 1:29:13makes Britain great. I will give way.The way in which she is opening
1:29:13 > 1:29:16this debate commission leads to the question of whether there might be
1:29:16 > 1:29:21scupper us to remain in Dublin three even after we leave the EU. Would
1:29:21 > 1:29:24she so share with me a curiosity which perhaps the Minister can
1:29:24 > 1:29:28address in course as to whether Dublin four, if that comes through,
1:29:28 > 1:29:31would mean we could still continue with Dublin three arrangements even
1:29:31 > 1:29:37if we were not party to those subsequent arrangements?Thank you,
1:29:37 > 1:29:43I also this question, whether the Great Repeal Bill or the immigration
1:29:43 > 1:29:46bill that will come later the must be something that can ensure that we
1:29:46 > 1:29:55offer the same rights to those children as we do now.
1:29:55 > 1:30:04I want to conclude my remark by thanking ministers for foresight of
1:30:04 > 1:30:07the document issued yesterday. It has been issued hand-in-hand with
1:30:07 > 1:30:11the charges who understand intimately the vulnerabilities
1:30:11 > 1:30:15refugee children have and the issues they face. I am pleased it commits
1:30:15 > 1:30:19to updating parliament and the Childrens Commissioner regulate and
1:30:19 > 1:30:22the funding transferred to local authorities will be reviewed and the
1:30:22 > 1:30:26number of foster training places will be increased to 1000 but most
1:30:26 > 1:30:30importantly for me is the commitment to improving the way Dublin III is
1:30:30 > 1:30:34administered on the ground with an emphasis on improving family tracing
1:30:34 > 1:30:41and speeding up asylum processing. I wish this determination to act had
1:30:41 > 1:30:44come more quickly, I wish those children have not had to sleep in
1:30:44 > 1:30:48third for as long as they did, the safeguarding strategy is a document
1:30:48 > 1:30:52we should be very proud of and I want to thank both ministers for
1:30:52 > 1:30:55creating it but for goodness sake let's bring it to life now and bring
1:30:55 > 1:31:03those remaining children home.The question is as on the order paper.
1:31:03 > 1:31:10Stella Crecy.Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, can I start by putting on
1:31:10 > 1:31:15the record my admiration for the work that the Member for South
1:31:15 > 1:31:19Cambridgeshire has done on this issue, I know her personally and
1:31:19 > 1:31:23passionately she feels about these young people and like myself, the
1:31:23 > 1:31:30Member for Pontefract, we have faced online and sometimes off-line and
1:31:30 > 1:31:35abuse that I don't think reflects the best of our British characters
1:31:35 > 1:31:39and it comes to issues like this, when it comes to protect some of the
1:31:39 > 1:31:43most vulnerable people in Our World and like her and the Member for
1:31:43 > 1:31:46Cambridgeshire I want to start by putting on record my thanks to the
1:31:46 > 1:31:52people in Walthamstow who I believe have reflected that recognition, to
1:31:52 > 1:31:55Debbie Bliss who right now is organising a project called warmth
1:31:55 > 1:32:01from Walthamstow, to take sleeping blankets and emergency blankets to
1:32:01 > 1:32:05the children that are still there in Calais, to Rod Holmes who runs the
1:32:05 > 1:32:10migrant action group am helping people who are here to make the best
1:32:10 > 1:32:16of their lives, to the running of the refugee kitchen taking flapjacks
1:32:16 > 1:32:22to the children in Calais, to national organisations who valiantly
1:32:22 > 1:32:26fight and lost in the High Court today but I hope the debate will
1:32:26 > 1:32:30continue into safe passage, all the people who reflect the reality of
1:32:30 > 1:32:34the British public when they see these children and they see what's
1:32:34 > 1:32:38happening to them, recognise that our nation is a better place when we
1:32:38 > 1:32:43offered them sanctuary. And this debate today is about the best way
1:32:43 > 1:32:48to do that. Because nobody is saying that we haven't helped children.
1:32:48 > 1:32:52What we are saying is that the need under urgency of getting it right is
1:32:52 > 1:32:56even more pressing today than perhaps it was a year ago as people
1:32:56 > 1:33:02may think that we have resolved this issue. Sadly, we know that conflict
1:33:02 > 1:33:07continues around the world, sadly we know that the push factors that push
1:33:07 > 1:33:11people to take these dangerous journeys have not abated and whilst
1:33:11 > 1:33:16all of us might wish the world were otherwise, the reality is that it is
1:33:16 > 1:33:21not the reality on the ground in Calais is that there are still
1:33:21 > 1:33:27hundreds of unaccompanied children sleeping rough who need that want
1:33:27 > 1:33:31not just from Walthamstow but from our country. I will happily give
1:33:31 > 1:33:37way.I congratulate her on the Member for South Cambridge for
1:33:37 > 1:33:40bringing this debate. Last week in the chamber we were discussing
1:33:40 > 1:33:45modern slavery and the risk of human trafficking, does she share my
1:33:45 > 1:33:48concern that many of these children if they are not rescued, could fall
1:33:48 > 1:33:54into the hands of traffickers?My honourable friend is right and we
1:33:54 > 1:33:57have seen many reports suggesting that is precisely the case. As we
1:33:57 > 1:34:01know, when you do not have safe passage it does not stop people
1:34:01 > 1:34:04coming here, it means the only passage available is through the
1:34:04 > 1:34:08traffickers and we know that is very unsafe. I think the debate today for
1:34:08 > 1:34:12all of us is to ask the Minister to make sure we are the best of
1:34:12 > 1:34:17British, to make sure we keep these children safe because we do have a
1:34:17 > 1:34:21moral obligation to do that and indeed it is in the best of our
1:34:21 > 1:34:24traditions. When we hear that the French police will not allow in
1:34:24 > 1:34:30geode temps, meaning many of these children are sleeping without any
1:34:30 > 1:34:33shelter at all including unaccompanied children as young as
1:34:33 > 1:34:38nine, then yes, we want to hold the French authorities to account but we
1:34:38 > 1:34:41must also hold ourselves to account as to what we are doing to help. I
1:34:41 > 1:34:47will happily give way.I thank the honourable lady, she's making a
1:34:47 > 1:34:50typically powerful speech as befitting an award-winning
1:34:50 > 1:34:57backbencher of the year. And May I congratulate her on that and also
1:34:57 > 1:35:00put to her, it's really important that we put more pressure on the
1:35:00 > 1:35:03French are parodies to behave properly treat people well
1:35:03 > 1:35:10particularly children.The member from Dover will know that I will bow
1:35:10 > 1:35:13to nobody in holding all governments to account but that does not mean I
1:35:13 > 1:35:18will turn a blind eye to our own government and what they could do
1:35:18 > 1:35:21and our debate, our power today is to send a very clear message to the
1:35:21 > 1:35:25Minister that we wish to see as the member from South Cambridgeshire
1:35:25 > 1:35:29talked about, the ambition set out in that safeguarding strategy
1:35:29 > 1:35:36published over a year ago, and now frankly, a little bit up in the air
1:35:36 > 1:35:38because of Brexit because there are issues about what happens around
1:35:38 > 1:35:42Dublin III, because there are issues about unaccompanied children and yet
1:35:42 > 1:35:44that safeguarding strategy explicitly talked about children in
1:35:44 > 1:35:49Europe now that we may well have responsibility for, it's not good
1:35:49 > 1:35:53enough to ask somebody else to pick up the pieces if we ourselves are
1:35:53 > 1:35:57falling short. And what the concern is today is that Britain is still
1:35:57 > 1:36:02falling short on what it can do for these children and it is
1:36:02 > 1:36:06nine-year-olds, sleeping in bushes in Calais, sleeping without shelter
1:36:06 > 1:36:11in Greece, Italy, but are paying the price and I am pretty sure the
1:36:11 > 1:36:13Member for Dover would not want that on his conscience when there are
1:36:13 > 1:36:18things we can practically do here, in this House, to make a difference.
1:36:18 > 1:36:22Because we know once the French are parodies have put together a
1:36:22 > 1:36:26temporary administration come about as only dealing with a small number
1:36:26 > 1:36:30of children. We know there are issues about the children being
1:36:30 > 1:36:35processed, about applications being heard. Many of us a year ago acted
1:36:35 > 1:36:40with good intent encouraging those children and young people to go with
1:36:40 > 1:36:42officials to processing centres, only to find out the goalposts had
1:36:42 > 1:36:47been moved. Changes about which children would be accepted on the
1:36:47 > 1:36:51basis of nationality, not on the need were made through pieces of
1:36:51 > 1:36:55legislation and statements that were issued without this House having
1:36:55 > 1:36:59proper scrutiny. Many of us have been concerned since then with the
1:36:59 > 1:37:02way in which the government has approached global authorities, we
1:37:02 > 1:37:05may not have seen the High Court agree with us but it's worth
1:37:05 > 1:37:09agreeing what the High Court was discussing was the fact that the
1:37:09 > 1:37:12government simply haven't asked even the Northern Irish government about
1:37:12 > 1:37:15what they could do, certainly the Scottish authorities were told not
1:37:15 > 1:37:18to respond, a third of English up birdies did not respond to the
1:37:18 > 1:37:24consultation. We know the British public supports protecting children,
1:37:24 > 1:37:26we know actually when you asked local authorities as we found out
1:37:26 > 1:37:31since the High Court again looking at this issue, there are more places
1:37:31 > 1:37:37to be had. Aren't we really saying in this country we can only look
1:37:37 > 1:37:40after 480 honourable young people for whom there is nobody else in the
1:37:40 > 1:37:44world to protect them?I will happily give way. I thank the
1:37:44 > 1:37:48honourable lady forgiving me and congratulate her on her recent
1:37:48 > 1:37:52recognition for the excellent work she's been doing. Which she agree
1:37:52 > 1:37:56with me that there are fantastic local authorities doing the everyday
1:37:56 > 1:38:00things, registering children with GPs, getting them into school or
1:38:00 > 1:38:04college, dividing the French groupings, doing mentors work, which
1:38:04 > 1:38:09he except that in tough times the Home Office needs to be supporting
1:38:09 > 1:38:13local authorities in the joint endeavour?I completely agree with
1:38:13 > 1:38:17my colleague and cheap prefigure is one of my points. We know this
1:38:17 > 1:38:24government has spent £81 million on security measures in Calais. And
1:38:24 > 1:38:29yet, at the moment, there is just one secondment of staff to France to
1:38:29 > 1:38:33try and progress family reunion claims, even though we know one ad
1:38:33 > 1:38:37of six of those people in the jungle or people trying to reconnect with
1:38:37 > 1:38:42their families. Undoubtedly local authorities need resourced but so
1:38:42 > 1:38:46too we need a process that is quick and fair and at the moment, that is
1:38:46 > 1:38:50what we do not having those children are often waiting months on their
1:38:50 > 1:38:54own before they are accessing accommodation. The Minister himself
1:38:54 > 1:38:58all know but I have personally raised cases with him of children
1:38:58 > 1:39:02who are waiting, often with very severe mental health needs as a
1:39:02 > 1:39:05result of the delay, frightened, vulnerable young people who are
1:39:05 > 1:39:09looking to this country to be but it has been in the past and we may be
1:39:09 > 1:39:14talking about Calais today but we know it's not just about Calais. It
1:39:14 > 1:39:19is about Greece, where we know not a single child has come as a result of
1:39:19 > 1:39:23the dubs amendment from Greece, even though we know there are thousands
1:39:23 > 1:39:29of unaccompanied child refugees in Greece, in Italy too. Two thirds of
1:39:29 > 1:39:31the 3000 unaccompanied children in Greece do not have proper shelter
1:39:31 > 1:39:39and care. This are our children to take on that responsibility for, to
1:39:39 > 1:39:44work with the authorities, the Ministry is shaking his head, is he
1:39:44 > 1:39:48saying he can be proud of a country that looks at children sleeping
1:39:48 > 1:39:51under bushes without proper shelter and care and say it is somebody
1:39:51 > 1:39:57else's problems? Of course the Greek authorities have to take
1:39:57 > 1:40:00responsibility but so do we minister and the question is what
1:40:00 > 1:40:03responsibility are we taking for children in Europe because that
1:40:03 > 1:40:07statement a year ago did not just specify Calais, talks about that
1:40:07 > 1:40:11these children suffering he responds I want to hear what he is going to
1:40:11 > 1:40:15do about the children Italy and Greece as well cause we have a
1:40:15 > 1:40:18responsibility to all of them and he can shake his head off he wants, I
1:40:18 > 1:40:22suspect the British public will not satisfy that because they are in
1:40:22 > 1:40:26France they might do something about them but Italian and Greek
1:40:26 > 1:40:31authorities or the ones we don't have a responsibility for.I will
1:40:31 > 1:40:35happily give way. I thank the honourable lady forgiving way and
1:40:35 > 1:40:39she makes a powerful case but could we make the case for the children
1:40:39 > 1:40:44still in the region, still in Syria? That the foundation which might
1:40:44 > 1:40:51small initiative tries to help, they are not only suffering and alone
1:40:51 > 1:40:55often but also under gunfire and it's important we do not forget the
1:40:55 > 1:40:59matter as well and discover and has done so much to get funds as for
1:40:59 > 1:41:04they are desperately needed.I don't disagree with the member, I don't
1:41:04 > 1:41:08think it's an either or situation, I go back to what I said at the start.
1:41:08 > 1:41:12All of us wish the world was different, there wasn't conflict,
1:41:12 > 1:41:18there wasn't fear and persecution, that people were not fleeing in fear
1:41:18 > 1:41:21of their lives, young Afghan boys were not frightened of the Taliban
1:41:21 > 1:41:26but they are. And they are acting accordingly and the question for us
1:41:26 > 1:41:31is whether we will act as well. And that is what the challenge is and
1:41:31 > 1:41:34whether they are in the region of whether they have fled to Europe or
1:41:34 > 1:41:38are one of the 10,000 at risk of trafficking, do we as a British
1:41:38 > 1:41:42society want to say it's just something else's problem or do we
1:41:42 > 1:41:47want to have in place a process so that we can hold our head high? I
1:41:47 > 1:41:51tell the member because I do want to finish, for all of us, this is not
1:41:51 > 1:41:55just about the immediacy, it's about our history as well, not just about
1:41:55 > 1:42:00all of us who were inspired out Lord dubs. I often say members opposite
1:42:00 > 1:42:04may find the surprise in but I sure something in common with Nigel
1:42:04 > 1:42:10Farage because Creasy, like for Raj is a Huguenot surname, many of us
1:42:10 > 1:42:15have refugee traditions within us, many of us in a second a parallel
1:42:15 > 1:42:22universe might either child looking for help. I also want to say to the
1:42:22 > 1:42:26Minister, a year ago I was trying to chase down with the government what
1:42:26 > 1:42:31had happened to 178 children at the Prime Minister herself was directly
1:42:31 > 1:42:35notified about and I have asked repeatedly about, children who would
1:42:35 > 1:42:39have been ineligible to come here under the dubs amendment. I had to
1:42:39 > 1:42:42tell the Minister 18 months on I am waiting for a response, for the
1:42:42 > 1:42:46confidence that our government knows what happened to those children who
1:42:46 > 1:42:50they were were notified about, in Calais at that point in time and yet
1:42:50 > 1:42:55nobody is able to make contact with. Children who may be in this country,
1:42:55 > 1:42:59maybe elsewhere, maybe with traffickers and I make a plea to the
1:42:59 > 1:43:03Minister, will he at least go and see if we can find out whether any
1:43:03 > 1:43:07of those children are safe on our shores because I think we have to
1:43:07 > 1:43:10accept a responsibility that they came to us asking for help. I also
1:43:10 > 1:43:16want to put on record the reasons why I tabled amendment 332 to the EU
1:43:16 > 1:43:19withdrawal bill, there will be debates about Dublin and I agree
1:43:19 > 1:43:22with the Member for South Cambridgeshire need to make sure we
1:43:22 > 1:43:26live up to the commitment of Dublin, there will be debates about what
1:43:26 > 1:43:29happens to the commitments we make in the safeguarding statement a year
1:43:29 > 1:43:33ago, there have been issues, the statement talked about working with
1:43:33 > 1:43:36double authorities and that hasn't happened as the cortege shows. These
1:43:36 > 1:43:42debates need to happen on the floor of this House because actually, how
1:43:42 > 1:43:46we treat those refugee children cannot be dealt with in a statutory
1:43:46 > 1:43:51instrument hidden away in this House elsewhere. I make a plea to the
1:43:51 > 1:43:54Minister, he may disagree with me about Ford or obligations are to the
1:43:54 > 1:43:59number of children, I still think we made a commit it to 3000 children
1:43:59 > 1:44:03were the dubs amendment and I would like to hold the government to
1:44:03 > 1:44:06account but when parliamentarians have this debate today, any further
1:44:06 > 1:44:10changes that will affect our ability to help some of the most vulnerable
1:44:10 > 1:44:14children should not be hidden away and I hope he will agree with me no
1:44:14 > 1:44:18changes will be made whether in the immigration bill or the EU
1:44:18 > 1:44:21withdrawal bill or the future through statutory instrument when it
1:44:21 > 1:44:24comes to the treatment of refugee children, if he would at least make
1:44:24 > 1:44:27that commitment I think we could be a missing page about the commitment
1:44:27 > 1:44:31of this country to do the best by these people, certainly it should
1:44:31 > 1:44:34not be up to the wonderful men and women in our constituencies to lead
1:44:34 > 1:44:38the charge and for this House to be found wanting. I congratulate the
1:44:38 > 1:44:42Member for South Cambridgeshire this and I look forward to working across
1:44:42 > 1:44:45the House on this issue and help the Minister will hear the plea to be
1:44:45 > 1:44:50the best of Britain.I have to put a time limit of six minutes on
1:44:50 > 1:44:59backbench speeches at least to begin with. Charlie Elphick.
1:44:59 > 1:45:03Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Representing Dover Calais is just a
1:45:03 > 1:45:10few short miles across the water, I can see Calais from my bedroom
1:45:10 > 1:45:14window and it is striking. The conditions that there until one year
1:45:14 > 1:45:19ago and I'm delighted and proud of the campaign that so many others
1:45:19 > 1:45:24fought to get that Jungle dismantled. Because over time the
1:45:24 > 1:45:30numbers have swollen to about 10,000 people, a place of appalling
1:45:30 > 1:45:36squalor. No sanitation facilities, no running water, no protection from
1:45:36 > 1:45:44the cold, nasty rickety shacks, that is what the Jungle was, plays that
1:45:44 > 1:45:47was frankly lawless were people traffickers roamed free, exploiting
1:45:47 > 1:45:55the people there. Yes of course.I visited the Jungle at its height and
1:45:55 > 1:46:01I agree it was a far from ideal place but would he agree that the
1:46:01 > 1:46:04conditions that the almost 1000 refugees are living in now are
1:46:04 > 1:46:08actually worse than they were then? I think the conditions of anyone
1:46:08 > 1:46:15living without food, shelter, and water are appalling. Let's just
1:46:15 > 1:46:20remember what that was like them. This whole area, 10,000 destitute
1:46:20 > 1:46:25people, many of whom had been trafficked thereby people
1:46:25 > 1:46:33traffickers, who were preying on them, exploiting them with the evil
1:46:33 > 1:46:39trade of slavery, selling the promise of a better life in Britain,
1:46:39 > 1:46:44almost invariably results in them disappearing from view to a life of
1:46:44 > 1:46:49exploitation, whether working in a nail bar, growing cannabis, being
1:46:49 > 1:46:53used as child criminals or other forms of exploitation, and we all
1:46:53 > 1:47:00know that this went on, goes on, is entirely unacceptable. And that's
1:47:00 > 1:47:06why it's so important to be rid of the Jungle and so important that the
1:47:06 > 1:47:09French authorities were pressed successfully into helping people
1:47:09 > 1:47:17away from Calais to reception centres with food, water,
1:47:17 > 1:47:24sanitation, safe from those traffickers that would exploit them
1:47:24 > 1:47:30and treat them so shockingly. I will give way of course.I thank my
1:47:30 > 1:47:34honourable friend forgiving way. He makes a powerful case. Will he agree
1:47:34 > 1:47:45that we should commend the efforts of those sick to take on
1:47:45 > 1:47:49traffickers.My honourable friend is right, this is the central point,
1:47:49 > 1:47:52this is not coming to come it was right that we got the Jungle
1:47:52 > 1:47:56dismantled and so many vulnerable people removed to safer places, it
1:47:56 > 1:48:02was also right that we worked tirelessly on an international
1:48:02 > 1:48:11basis, Britain and France, across Europe, to target the international
1:48:11 > 1:48:15criminal gangs, the outside gangs behind this evil trade of modern
1:48:15 > 1:48:20slavery, who behind this wicked exploitation... Yes.Thank you,
1:48:20 > 1:48:24Madam Deputy Speaker. I have dealt with child refugee is a long time
1:48:24 > 1:48:29ago. I have total is for their plight. We have taken about 8500
1:48:29 > 1:48:34people into this country, about half of them are children. Do I make the
1:48:34 > 1:48:37assumption that all those people that come through on that system are
1:48:37 > 1:48:43tracked and looked after and watch so they don't just disappear into
1:48:43 > 1:48:48this underclass?My honourable friend makes a powerful point, I
1:48:48 > 1:48:53hope the Minister will address that when he responds to this debate. We
1:48:53 > 1:48:58should welcome the fact that the numbers have fallen from 10,000 to
1:48:58 > 1:49:021000 but 1000 is still 1000 to many. This is why it's right that we keep
1:49:02 > 1:49:06up the pressure on the French government to do the right thing and
1:49:06 > 1:49:09act and make sure that people are not on the streets of Calais. I
1:49:09 > 1:49:13understand that there are members in this house who are deeply concerned
1:49:13 > 1:49:19about the plight of all refugees across the world, 50 million people
1:49:19 > 1:49:24have been displaced by conflict. Yes, we've taken 3000 but what's the
1:49:24 > 1:49:29right number of children to take, is at 30,000, 300,000? Shall we take
1:49:29 > 1:49:31all the children across the whole of Europe or just those who have a
1:49:31 > 1:49:37connection to Britain? I think the right policy is that we should do
1:49:37 > 1:49:40our bit, particularly on reunification, and we should hold
1:49:40 > 1:49:44our heads - the amount that we've been doing across the board, because
1:49:44 > 1:49:49it's important to remember we've taken in 20,000 people from Syria
1:49:49 > 1:49:53directly. Avoiding the risk of perilous journeys were so many lives
1:49:53 > 1:50:02tragically lost at sea or by mishap on the journey to Calais. It is
1:50:02 > 1:50:07vital so that we spent over £1 billion in aid to provide places of
1:50:07 > 1:50:10safety close to those areas of conflict, it is better to keep
1:50:10 > 1:50:18people close to their hearts and it is to risk incentivising a dangerous
1:50:18 > 1:50:21journey to be made across the whole of Europe because we've seen on our
1:50:21 > 1:50:28TV have that often ends up in such tragedy, and also what we don't see
1:50:28 > 1:50:32on our TV screens which is the kind of evil exploitation of traffickers
1:50:32 > 1:50:36and what they do to these vulnerable, desperate people, that
1:50:36 > 1:50:43is why I feel so strongly that we cannot risk a return of the Calais
1:50:43 > 1:50:46Centre and that is why feel passionately that the right thing to
1:50:46 > 1:50:51do is help people close to places of conflict in theatre. That is why I
1:50:51 > 1:50:57feel so strongly that it is right that we help and we do our it is a
1:50:57 > 1:51:01country but it is also right that we are strong on Europe and the
1:51:01 > 1:51:06European Union to improve its own border security, to improve the
1:51:06 > 1:51:11safety of people within their borders and make sure that people's
1:51:11 > 1:51:16European country as a whole do their bit to look after people within
1:51:16 > 1:51:23their borders because that is their duty and their responsibility. I
1:51:23 > 1:51:29think we are doing a lot and I think we are making a difference across
1:51:29 > 1:51:33the world but the fact that we are helping so much an international aid
1:51:33 > 1:51:45and development and helping areas in conflict, keeping people safe is
1:51:45 > 1:51:50something we should be proud of, the work that we have done reuniting
1:51:50 > 1:51:54families in Britain is also something we should be proud of, if
1:51:54 > 1:51:58there are other families that can be reunited, children can be brought on
1:51:58 > 1:52:05have a connection to this country, they have families, we should do
1:52:05 > 1:52:09that there should be a focus on that I agree with the honourable member,
1:52:09 > 1:52:14the lady opposite, that we should be looking at reunification of families
1:52:14 > 1:52:18but or do not agree that we can be responsible for all the refugees, or
1:52:18 > 1:52:22all the children across the whole of Europe and we can't take in every
1:52:22 > 1:52:30child. I get complaints from my constituents in Kent that we have
1:52:30 > 1:52:33one quarter of the unaccompanied asylum children in the whole of this
1:52:33 > 1:52:40country. And they are concerned about the pressures this places on
1:52:40 > 1:52:44public services in Kent. They are concerned that public services are
1:52:44 > 1:52:49so constrained in providing full other residents of Kent and that is
1:52:49 > 1:52:53why it is so important that we maintain a sense of fairness. If we
1:52:53 > 1:53:03are going to be there to care and look after, to bring forward these
1:53:03 > 1:53:07poor children, it is right to my mind to make sure they are not just
1:53:07 > 1:53:12left in the county of Kent but the whole country does its best to do
1:53:12 > 1:53:17their bit to ensure that children are spread across the whole country
1:53:17 > 1:53:24and not left with a burden falling on places like Kent which I
1:53:24 > 1:53:28represent.Yvette Cooper.Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker., start by
1:53:28 > 1:53:33welcoming the work of the Member for South Cambridge and my honourable
1:53:33 > 1:53:35friend the Member for Walthamstow for securing this debate in the
1:53:35 > 1:53:39first place and respond directly to the honourable member for Dover who
1:53:39 > 1:53:42has long had concern about the pressures in Kent and the conditions
1:53:42 > 1:53:46in Calais. Like him I agree that all councils across the country should
1:53:46 > 1:53:51do their bit, and as a whole country we should come together to support
1:53:51 > 1:53:59those vulnerable child refugees. 12 months ago I praised the Home Office
1:53:59 > 1:54:07worker at this time, to help child refugees, and I welcomed also the
1:54:07 > 1:54:12decision of the government to support the temperament amendment
1:54:12 > 1:54:17after cross-party support. We have seen lives transformed as a result.
1:54:17 > 1:54:20The Syrian teenager I met in London who now has a place at university
1:54:20 > 1:54:26after being out of education for many years. The Eritrean girls who
1:54:26 > 1:54:33had been trafficked and exploited, that is what this Parliament needs
1:54:33 > 1:54:39to make happen, this is what the work of campaigners of local
1:54:39 > 1:54:43volunteers have made possible by giving those children feature. I
1:54:43 > 1:54:47wish I could keep praising the government for the action it has
1:54:47 > 1:54:50taken since but sadly I cannot because I think of some of the
1:54:50 > 1:54:53failures from the Home Office then put this country and parliament to
1:54:53 > 1:54:57shame. We have seen the Dublin arrangements that ministers made
1:54:57 > 1:55:01work so effectively serve reflow last autumn now becoming far too
1:55:01 > 1:55:10slow once more. Despite that partnership working that we had 12
1:55:10 > 1:55:16months ago, allowing the numbers to build in Calais again and especially
1:55:16 > 1:55:23those of child refugees. Why is the government is still refusing to
1:55:23 > 1:55:26publish the number of unaccompanied children and teenagers coming to
1:55:26 > 1:55:30Britain under the Dublin scheme? They have the figures, there is no
1:55:30 > 1:55:33excuse for not publishing them and making them available to everyone.
1:55:33 > 1:55:37It isn't good enough for the government to try to fudge the facts
1:55:37 > 1:55:40by pointing to the number of children who come either with asylum
1:55:40 > 1:55:48seeking families or those who come through it illegal routes, the point
1:55:48 > 1:55:52is that we want to reduce the number of people coming through illegal,
1:55:52 > 1:55:55irregular and dangerous routes, and instead make sure it should be legal
1:55:55 > 1:56:03and safe routes to sanctuary as well. The longer we fail to have a
1:56:03 > 1:56:06functioning Dublin and temper might seem the more we will see teenagers
1:56:06 > 1:56:09and children take these crazy dangerous risks and lorries, through
1:56:09 > 1:56:13tunnels, putting their lives at risk and causing huge problems to the
1:56:13 > 1:56:17system as well. And that is what makes the government 's failure
1:56:17 > 1:56:23since last autumn on Dubs even more shocking. Because even first of all
1:56:23 > 1:56:27they announced they would close the scheme that Parliament voted for
1:56:27 > 1:56:32after it was set up and started operating. They refuse to ask
1:56:32 > 1:56:37councils to put again how many places they could provide each year
1:56:37 > 1:56:40even though we know that there were councils were willing to do more.
1:56:40 > 1:56:44The miscounted the number, could not even get the figures right in the
1:56:44 > 1:56:52first place and was to fall once we had 480 places that were offered,
1:56:52 > 1:56:56after the first group could come through Calais, we had month after
1:56:56 > 1:57:04month after month of no child coming through the Dubs scheme at all. I
1:57:04 > 1:57:07believe there may have been monomers from France last month, I hope
1:57:07 > 1:57:12that's the case. Yet it is simply not good enough. We still have well
1:57:12 > 1:57:20over 250 places still empty, at the same time we have children and
1:57:20 > 1:57:24teenagers across Europe who came here this year. I will give way.I
1:57:24 > 1:57:29think the honourable lady forgiving way. And for her work on this issue.
1:57:29 > 1:57:33She mentions the horrendous scale of the problem. Does she not think the
1:57:33 > 1:57:36government 's inaction is so troubling, given the history of
1:57:36 > 1:57:40Britain, this is not a new problem and in the past we have open our
1:57:40 > 1:57:43doors and welcomed refugees, it is something which is distinctly
1:57:43 > 1:57:46British and we should be proud of continuing to do it and that is why
1:57:46 > 1:57:51the government should definitely act.The honourable member is right,
1:57:51 > 1:58:02this has had cross-party support. I don't see it as a party political
1:58:02 > 1:58:05issue which is why add like to welcome the work the government has
1:58:05 > 1:58:08done. The trouble is we've seen a huge problems and the gaps in
1:58:08 > 1:58:10action, and it is something which was widely supported, Alf Dubs came
1:58:10 > 1:58:12himself through the Kindertransport and has done so much like so many
1:58:12 > 1:58:16other child refugees who have done so much for the future of this
1:58:16 > 1:58:18country after coming here. The children whose lives and features
1:58:18 > 1:58:23are Driscoll we could help. Like the uranium teenager I met in Athens on
1:58:23 > 1:58:29the very day that the government announced it would open the Dubs
1:58:29 > 1:58:33scheme -- the uranium teenager. I told him we would do this. Because
1:58:33 > 1:58:37he was gay he had fled his home country after being persecuted. We
1:58:37 > 1:58:41had a long talk because he spoke brilliant English. He spoke no Greek
1:58:41 > 1:58:47and yet he was one of many teenagers in Greece without proper support,
1:58:47 > 1:58:52without proper shelter, and who needed a future, and from whom we
1:58:52 > 1:58:57and our country should be doing our bet. I want to make progress because
1:58:57 > 1:59:03of the members want to come on. Despite the fact that there are
1:59:03 > 1:59:06almost 3000 unaccompanied children in Greece, some on a list waiting
1:59:06 > 1:59:09for shelter and some held in police custody because there's nowhere else
1:59:09 > 1:59:19is safe for them to go, the Harvard university are at risk by tracking
1:59:19 > 1:59:22gangs involved in modern slavery that the government has rightly
1:59:22 > 1:59:27condemned and are determined to stamp out. The problem is with our
1:59:27 > 1:59:32system, not with others. It is not good enough to simply blame the
1:59:32 > 1:59:37Greek and Italian governments for the failure to bring children
1:59:37 > 1:59:42understand that the Dubs scheme. Our job was not to arrive in Greece and
1:59:42 > 1:59:46Italy and say we've got loads more headaches for and more complex
1:59:46 > 1:59:50bureaucratic procedures here to meet with our scheme. Instead our job
1:59:50 > 1:59:55should have been to design the Dubs scheme in a way that made it easy
1:59:55 > 1:59:59for this very overstretched social services system in Italy and Greece
1:59:59 > 2:00:04to be able to send some of those children here to the sanctuary that
2:00:04 > 2:00:12this country has already pledged and already
2:00:12 > 2:00:14Teenagers like the 12-year-old Eritrean girl on her own in Italy
2:00:14 > 2:00:19whose brother is already in foster care here in Britain, the foster
2:00:19 > 2:00:25care has offered to take a sister as well, she is only 12, has been in
2:00:25 > 2:00:29mixed accommodation with adult men in Italy and she has tried several
2:00:29 > 2:00:35times to run away.We could bring her over through the dubs scheme,
2:00:35 > 2:00:39frankly it doesn't matter, she is the kind of child we should be
2:00:39 > 2:00:44trying to help. I would urge the government to reopen this scheme, to
2:00:44 > 2:00:48speed up the Dublin scheme and to take very fast action now is the
2:00:48 > 2:00:52Member for South Cambridgeshire has said, let's build the 280 places by
2:00:52 > 2:00:59Christmas. Stop insisting on the workable cut-off date that has no
2:00:59 > 2:01:02impact at all on whether or not children and teenagers arrive in
2:01:02 > 2:01:07Europe, that a strong run some kind of fantasy world in which the
2:01:07 > 2:01:10detailed conditions of a small British refugee scheme somehow have
2:01:10 > 2:01:15an impact on whether or not children and teenagers make an incredibly
2:01:15 > 2:01:20dangerous journey to get to Europe in the first place. Ditch that cut
2:01:20 > 2:01:24off date, rip up some of the bureaucratic hurdles the Home Office
2:01:24 > 2:01:28puts in place and make this scheme work as Parliament intended and we
2:01:28 > 2:01:33all voted for and promised in good faith. We promised in good faith to
2:01:33 > 2:01:39do our bit for the refugees, to do our bit just as with the candour
2:01:39 > 2:01:41transport, the Home Secretary said herself it is the children who
2:01:41 > 2:01:46matter most, it is and once again we in this House and the Home Office
2:01:46 > 2:01:50could come together on that same cross-party basis that we came
2:01:50 > 2:01:56together 12 months ago and 18 months ago to support those child refugees.
2:01:56 > 2:02:03I have to reduce the time limit to four minutes, Amanda Millie.Thank
2:02:03 > 2:02:08you and I would like to sit door at by congratulating the Member for
2:02:08 > 2:02:10South Cambridgeshire for securing the debate and it's a pleasure to
2:02:10 > 2:02:15follow the right honourable member, which are the Home Affairs Select
2:02:15 > 2:02:20Committee. The migration crisis aspects countries all around the
2:02:20 > 2:02:24world and as my honourable friend the Member for Dover mentioned there
2:02:24 > 2:02:28are refugee crises across the world. It's a truly global challenge and no
2:02:28 > 2:02:34simple solution to this. We should be proud of what is a country the
2:02:34 > 2:02:39United Kingdom has done in terms of trying to seek contents of solutions
2:02:39 > 2:02:43and a response to the migration crisis. And one that looks to
2:02:43 > 2:02:50revived the greatest impact to those who are really in need. Looking to
2:02:50 > 2:02:55deal with the causes as well as the consequences and we operate a number
2:02:55 > 2:03:01of different routes to resettle children into the UK. But crucially
2:03:01 > 2:03:07at the heart of this approach, we must need to avoid migrants actually
2:03:07 > 2:03:11making these very dangerous journeys in the first place. And in
2:03:11 > 2:03:16particular the vulnerable children. And that's why I believe the
2:03:16 > 2:03:21government approach is absolutely right, we need to settle the most
2:03:21 > 2:03:26vulnerable children from the region itself and actually try and avoid
2:03:26 > 2:03:30making these journeys in the first place. I won't give away because we
2:03:30 > 2:03:35haven't got much time. We are committed to resettling 20,000
2:03:35 > 2:03:39individuals of all nationalities leading the Syrian conflict I
2:03:39 > 2:03:44Twenty20. As well as 3000 of the most vulnerable children and family
2:03:44 > 2:03:48members. And I am pleased to see the progress that has been made with
2:03:48 > 2:03:53over eight and a half thousand already settled. Around half of whom
2:03:53 > 2:03:59are children. And it also worth that in 2016 the UK resettled more
2:03:59 > 2:04:05refugees from outside Europe than any other EU member state, again,
2:04:05 > 2:04:12this is something I believe we should be proud of. But alongside
2:04:12 > 2:04:14resettling the most vulnerable children directly from the region we
2:04:14 > 2:04:23must continue to invest and deliver directly to the region itself, as
2:04:23 > 2:04:27tackling the root cause of the migration crisis. We've been at the
2:04:27 > 2:04:34forefront of the response to the Syrian crisis itself, pledging some
2:04:34 > 2:04:38merely to the half billion pounds and further more we have been try or
2:04:38 > 2:04:44a Tyson the upstream interventions in countries of origin, reducing the
2:04:44 > 2:04:48factors that encourage the migrants leaving their home in the first
2:04:48 > 2:04:52place as my honourable friend the Member for Dover mentioned. And
2:04:52 > 2:04:57we've also contributed to the Mediterranean migration crisis
2:04:57 > 2:05:06response in Europe, allocating more than £175 million in humanitarian
2:05:06 > 2:05:10assistance. Including £75 million as announced by my right honourable
2:05:10 > 2:05:16friend the Prime Minister at the European Council in June. Taken
2:05:16 > 2:05:19together these two approaches I believe offer the best response to
2:05:19 > 2:05:24the crisis, investing directly in the region whilst still read
2:05:24 > 2:05:31settling those refugees at the heart of where the crisis lies and in
2:05:31 > 2:05:35doing so playing our part in terms of the global challenge that I
2:05:35 > 2:05:38referred to in the first place and as such of holding our moral duty as
2:05:38 > 2:05:47well as helping those most vulnerable and in need. Thank you.
2:05:47 > 2:05:52Many thanks Madam Deputy Speaker and can I thank the honourable member
2:05:52 > 2:05:55for such Cambridgeshire and might honourable friend for securing the
2:05:55 > 2:06:01debate. I would also like to use my time to draw attention to the plight
2:06:01 > 2:06:04of two specific children to bring a human face to what can be a
2:06:04 > 2:06:07difficult debate, I want the government to hear about these
2:06:07 > 2:06:12children, especially the Minister who is chatting on the front bench
2:06:12 > 2:06:15right now because I'd like him to do something about it, he knows I will
2:06:15 > 2:06:19hold him to account on this if I don't believe he's actually paying
2:06:19 > 2:06:26attention. Thank you. The first case is...I would like to point out what
2:06:26 > 2:06:33she just said is completely false. Exactly, I'm not even going there.
2:06:33 > 2:06:37The first case, a 13-year-old Eritrean boy and Lee living in a
2:06:37 > 2:06:43camp near the French Italian border, survived unaccompanied in Italy for
2:06:43 > 2:06:48open 11 months now, his father is in the UK and is desperate for his son
2:06:48 > 2:06:53to join him. It must be heartbreaking to know that your
2:06:53 > 2:06:57child is so vulnerable, and not unable to bring them the short few
2:06:57 > 2:07:06miles to safety. The asylum system in Italy... The asylum system in
2:07:06 > 2:07:14Italy... Is overwhelmed, does the Minister want me to call him out
2:07:14 > 2:07:19again, I'm happy to, I would like him to listen, maybe with could stop
2:07:19 > 2:07:26chatting.I'm not sure what the honourable lady, I am making notes
2:07:26 > 2:07:33on what she is saying, I am not sure what she is trying to infer.The
2:07:33 > 2:07:37Minister knows better than to accuse me of silly games, if I wasn't
2:07:37 > 2:07:41worried that I wasn't being heard I wouldn't be stopping, I do want to
2:07:41 > 2:07:45be heard because I genuinely believe these cases are specific but they
2:07:45 > 2:07:50are also indicative of all the cases that we've been hearing from today,
2:07:50 > 2:07:54I think the Minister is a good man generally and I know that he
2:07:54 > 2:07:57normally listens to debates which is why I had so much faith that he
2:07:57 > 2:08:01would listen to me today and be able to take some action on this case and
2:08:01 > 2:08:05that's why I'm being so clear that I would like him to take real
2:08:05 > 2:08:13attention to what is going on. Tecle... The refugee support group
2:08:13 > 2:08:16safe passage is secured an appointment with the Italian
2:08:16 > 2:08:20authorities so he could request asylum and seek transfer to the UK
2:08:20 > 2:08:25which appears to be his right. He was finally granted an interview
2:08:25 > 2:08:28last month but wasn't given an interpreter so the information
2:08:28 > 2:08:34recorded was inaccurate and his journey once more was curtailed.
2:08:34 > 2:08:41Psychologists working with MSF have met with him more than once,
2:08:41 > 2:08:45professional assessment is that his mental health is perilous, also
2:08:45 > 2:08:49honourable to criminal gangs as the Minister knows that prey at these
2:08:49 > 2:08:54camps across the world. His future remains so unclear, I can only
2:08:54 > 2:08:58imagine what it's like to be that young, that frighten, that alone and
2:08:58 > 2:09:02have to wait like that was nothing in the future is secure and not
2:09:02 > 2:09:07knowing when he will ever find a home safe with his family again. The
2:09:07 > 2:09:12story my honourable friend raised from Pontefract and Castleford is
2:09:12 > 2:09:17about a 12-year-old Eritrean girl who arrived in Italy in June this
2:09:17 > 2:09:23year, her brother as my honourable friend stated, living with a stable
2:09:23 > 2:09:29foster family for the past three years, his carer willing to foster
2:09:29 > 2:09:33Ewet so they can live together in security. She's obviously
2:09:33 > 2:09:38vulnerable, initially placed in a mixed reception centre with adults
2:09:38 > 2:09:42of both sexes before safe passage intervened, she's terribly afraid,
2:09:42 > 2:09:48despairing in the reception centre she sent and like Tecle has recently
2:09:48 > 2:09:52attempted to run away. She would rather risk absolutely everything in
2:09:52 > 2:09:57an attempt to be with her brother than remain in for cheaper seems to
2:09:57 > 2:10:03be a terrifying prison. Last month she was able finally to submit her
2:10:03 > 2:10:08asylum application in Italy, five months after her arrival but it's
2:10:08 > 2:10:13unclear whether a take charge request has been made because
2:10:13 > 2:10:17consistent bureaucratic delays in the area, this is the situation that
2:10:17 > 2:10:22so many unaccompanied children live in across Europe and their only hope
2:10:22 > 2:10:26is for a legal route to be offered so they can rejoin their families.
2:10:26 > 2:10:33Will my honourable friend give way? Will she join me in asking the
2:10:33 > 2:10:38government to make sure the places that have been filled or filled as
2:10:38 > 2:10:42swiftly as possible, but family reunion takes place as swiftly as
2:10:42 > 2:10:46possible?I absolutely agree, he's absolutely right and I asked the
2:10:46 > 2:10:49Minister who I normally like very much to work with safe passage to
2:10:49 > 2:10:55have been helping Tecle and Ewet to look into these cases and I ask him
2:10:55 > 2:10:59personally to update me on the progress because as he knows full
2:10:59 > 2:11:06well, this hard two amongst many. There is a clear moral principle, no
2:11:06 > 2:11:11child should spend a second longer than necessary in a state of
2:11:11 > 2:11:14vulnerability and uncertainty when they have family in Britain who
2:11:14 > 2:11:19can't often provide safety and support. But this motion is not just
2:11:19 > 2:11:24about moral principle, it's about the law. Whatever happens after this
2:11:24 > 2:11:29breaks it, it's vital that the UK law ensures access for vulnerable
2:11:29 > 2:11:36children with a legal claim to rejoin families in Britain. That
2:11:36 > 2:11:43this right, this access is retained and not reduced. But Dublin III
2:11:43 > 2:11:45regulation leaves a lot to be desired but the family reunion
2:11:45 > 2:11:51access guaranteed by domestic law is often more restrictive. Some lone
2:11:51 > 2:11:55child refugees who have grandparents, uncles, and is,
2:11:55 > 2:11:59sisters or brothers in the UK have a legal route to safety and family
2:11:59 > 2:12:03reunion because of the Dublin regulation and I want the
2:12:03 > 2:12:07government, the Minister today, to commit to working across this House
2:12:07 > 2:12:15to ensure that we perpetrate... Order... I was going to let the
2:12:15 > 2:12:21honourable lady say her last couple of words...You are very kind. I
2:12:21 > 2:12:25would basically asked the government to replicate the provisions of
2:12:25 > 2:12:28Dublin III after Brexit so we can bring these children home.Adam
2:12:28 > 2:12:36Holloway. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Many of the people in
2:12:36 > 2:12:39Calais, from war-torn areas like Syria and Iraq and shortly before
2:12:39 > 2:12:44the general election I went with my interpreter, my former interpreter,
2:12:44 > 2:12:49to the city of Mosul for about three hours, had a look round but the
2:12:49 > 2:12:55thing that really struck me was as we were approaching the city, when
2:12:55 > 2:13:00we were about 20 kilometres out, literally a great caravan, if you'd
2:13:00 > 2:13:08like of women in black with children, very few men, one lady
2:13:08 > 2:13:12carrying two babies and a toddler walking behind and the next day I
2:13:12 > 2:13:17went to one of the camps, this camp had had an extra 23,000 people in
2:13:17 > 2:13:23the previous week, the latrines which had been designed to last for
2:13:23 > 2:13:2617 months were already overflowing after three weeks. There were lots
2:13:26 > 2:13:34and lots of young people are and there was real, real need... I think
2:13:34 > 2:13:44it gives us no pleasure, any of us, to see pictures of young people in
2:13:44 > 2:13:48Calais, at the edge of Europe, we take no pleasure in seeing intense
2:13:48 > 2:13:54hardship and of course we must help the young and vulnerable as the
2:13:54 > 2:14:01honourable lady has said. But we must not be naive. And we must not
2:14:01 > 2:14:04create pull factors, for the honourable member for Dover
2:14:04 > 2:14:12described as migrant magnets.Will he give way? I thank him and
2:14:12 > 2:14:17appreciate that. Whilst we can all have a debate about pull or push, ad
2:14:17 > 2:14:21infinitum and we will never agree at least let's honour at the places we
2:14:21 > 2:14:27should provide under the Dub scheme, another 280 we haven't filled.Yes,
2:14:27 > 2:14:34I accept that but I also think we must be careful that we do what is
2:14:34 > 2:14:39right for as many people as possible, rather than the people who
2:14:39 > 2:14:43are most visible to us and to make ourselves do what makes us feel
2:14:43 > 2:14:49good. We must stop creating the pull factors that get people to make
2:14:49 > 2:14:52these furry long journeys and the reality... Of course I will give
2:14:52 > 2:14:58way.
2:14:58 > 2:15:03Madam Deputy Speaker my good friend has lived under cover in Sangha at
2:15:03 > 2:15:07and I would like to ask my good friend for any comments that he
2:15:07 > 2:15:13might have on how the children were living there, particularly the
2:15:13 > 2:15:19conditions for them that he saw when he was under cover.Thank my friend.
2:15:19 > 2:15:24This was some time ago and they were very few children. The reality I
2:15:24 > 2:15:28found in the Sangatte and I was there for about a week was they will
2:15:28 > 2:15:32will mostly fit young men, I would do the same as them but they had
2:15:32 > 2:15:36sold bits of land in Kurdistan or wherever else and they were coming
2:15:36 > 2:15:41to England and the reason the camp was full and the reason that the
2:15:41 > 2:15:45Jungle was full and the reason there are thousands of people around
2:15:45 > 2:15:52Calais is because they know they will get into Britain. There are
2:15:52 > 2:15:55people turning in the Mediterranean because we've allowed this
2:15:55 > 2:16:02expectation that if you make it to Europe you stay in Europe. Until we
2:16:02 > 2:16:08end that will continue to have this problem and continue to have some
2:16:08 > 2:16:12people coming over. There is a reality to what we describe as
2:16:12 > 2:16:14refugee children, I completely acknowledge that you can't have
2:16:14 > 2:16:20nine-year-olds living in bushes. Yet 90% of the non-unaccompanied asylum
2:16:20 > 2:16:23seeking children who applied for asylum here in 2016 were male and
2:16:23 > 2:16:3259% of those would claim to be either 16 or 17 years old. The fact
2:16:32 > 2:16:36that the statistics, of course. Forgive me. What he is talking about
2:16:36 > 2:16:40is people who may have come here illegally. Does he agree that if we
2:16:40 > 2:16:44have a safe and legal process and actually all of the Daily Mail myths
2:16:44 > 2:16:48about who children are when they are refugees can be dealt with because
2:16:48 > 2:16:57there can be Home Office officials processing on the ground.I have
2:16:57 > 2:17:01sympathy but I have sympathy -- I've seen these children in camps and we
2:17:01 > 2:17:05should do all we can for the many, not the relative few. Don't just do
2:17:05 > 2:17:12what makes you feel good. There are millions of people in the Middle
2:17:12 > 2:17:19East to need as much up as we can give and we can't settle all in the
2:17:19 > 2:17:31UK, we must do what we can for the many. Taking such young people can
2:17:31 > 2:17:34help people in all regions, and we are creating pull factors to
2:17:34 > 2:17:41dispatch young people on these long and lethal journeys. Cancel foster
2:17:41 > 2:17:44places are oversubscribed and the amount of money spent on each child
2:17:44 > 2:17:48is enormous. I'm not saying that aren't cases where we should do it,
2:17:48 > 2:17:51I am just saying that we should think about where we spend this
2:17:51 > 2:17:56money, we should spend the money to look after people nearer their own
2:17:56 > 2:18:04homes. We must do what is right, not what makes us feel good. If we are
2:18:04 > 2:18:08really going to help those who most need our help we will help more
2:18:08 > 2:18:14people by helping them outside our borders and stopping these immoral
2:18:14 > 2:18:18pull factors. We should be helping the many, not pulling in the field,
2:18:18 > 2:18:29thank you.Tim Farron.Images of families and children in make
2:18:29 > 2:18:32makeshift refugee camps in Calais have disappeared from our front
2:18:32 > 2:18:38pages but the debate has not abated, we still face the biggest monetary
2:18:38 > 2:18:42crisis since the 1940s. As we have heard, last week marked one year
2:18:42 > 2:18:47since the demolition of the Jungle. In 2015I like others went to visit
2:18:47 > 2:18:51the Jungle myself and the experience was both eye opening and
2:18:51 > 2:18:56heartbreaking. Conditions were awful but it was amazing to see the
2:18:56 > 2:18:59strength and grid of the people living there despite the
2:18:59 > 2:19:03unimaginable situation that they found themselves in. They had built
2:19:03 > 2:19:08themselves a mosque, church, they had put up libraries, language
2:19:08 > 2:19:12schools, a barber shop. It was striking how these people had been
2:19:12 > 2:19:18treated in the most uncivilised way, we are now responding with dignity
2:19:18 > 2:19:22and civilisation, they work spending time and charity workers working
2:19:22 > 2:19:26tirelessly to support them. It was clear that the camp was there one
2:19:26 > 2:19:30option. Else and children there without guardians, bass and their
2:19:30 > 2:19:34parents had paid traffic is to get them to safety in Europe, others
2:19:34 > 2:19:39have lost their parents to conflicts or become separated while fleeing. I
2:19:39 > 2:19:43was particularly frustration on behalf of those stuck there with
2:19:43 > 2:19:50family already in the UK. And legal law they have a right to be her but
2:19:50 > 2:19:55complicated bureaucracy means it can trigger to six months to even
2:19:55 > 2:20:04register for a unification. The argument goes why are they so intent
2:20:04 > 2:20:08on coming to Britain. Those intent on commuter Britain are a small
2:20:08 > 2:20:12minority of those refugees in France. Nearly every one of those I
2:20:12 > 2:20:18spoke to had this grand view of Britain as a place of decency,
2:20:18 > 2:20:25freedom and civilisation. So if you have made that journey, taken those
2:20:25 > 2:20:29risks, you are not one of life 's spongers. If you've met those
2:20:29 > 2:20:33refugees you know it is not the poor factor that has brought them here,
2:20:33 > 2:20:38it is the push factor of four and persecution back home. I will
2:20:38 > 2:20:44happily give way.This is preposterous. The fact is, to make
2:20:44 > 2:20:48these long journeys sometimes lasting many months, costs a great
2:20:48 > 2:20:53deal of money, most of it is organised by people smugglers, and
2:20:53 > 2:20:57these are the relatively privileged few. We should be concentrating on
2:20:57 > 2:21:03the many.We should concentrate on those in most need. I ask you to
2:21:03 > 2:21:07think again about that image of Britain that is in the mind of those
2:21:07 > 2:21:11people who are seeking to come here. I will happily give way.On this
2:21:11 > 2:21:17point what is according to me is a modern compassion and wealthy
2:21:17 > 2:21:27country like ours should be able to do both.The honourable lady allows
2:21:27 > 2:21:32me to pay to her, she has hit the nail on the head, it should be a
2:21:32 > 2:21:38source of immense pride that this is how Britain is seen by many. A real
2:21:38 > 2:21:43patriot wants other people to think well of their country. In spite of
2:21:43 > 2:21:47the ugly face we so often seem to wish to present to the rest of the
2:21:47 > 2:21:53world. On October 24, 2016 the French authorities began their
2:21:53 > 2:21:59full-scale domination of the camp which by the way was backed by 36
2:21:59 > 2:22:04million pounds of UK money. One of the reasons the French authorities
2:22:04 > 2:22:07chose that date was because French law makes it an offence to make
2:22:07 > 2:22:15anyone homeless after November one. It is a clear attempt to clear the
2:22:15 > 2:22:19decks and do something many of us would consider morally reprehensible
2:22:19 > 2:22:23in the narrow window when it was legally permissible. Any matter that
2:22:23 > 2:22:27heartlessness is not something our government has a monopoly on. As
2:22:27 > 2:22:32compensation or to deflect criticism The Home Office transferred 750
2:22:32 > 2:22:36children to Britain to begin to their lives, reunited with family
2:22:36 > 2:22:43under Dublin three and others were brought in under the Dubs scheme.
2:22:43 > 2:22:461900 children were registered as living in the camp and many more
2:22:46 > 2:22:50would have been there, not registered. Rough estimates today
2:22:50 > 2:22:54suggest that around 1000 people remain scattered in and around
2:22:54 > 2:23:03Calais. Resting up to 200 unaccompanied children, these
2:23:03 > 2:23:10children are not just vulnerable to the weather, they are most
2:23:10 > 2:23:17appallingly vulnerable to traffickers and others would do them
2:23:17 > 2:23:24harm. For children a place could be more dangerous. We should redouble
2:23:24 > 2:23:30our efforts to make sure that this crisis is not just brushed under the
2:23:30 > 2:23:36carpet. I want the government to do three things, reopen Dubs today, we
2:23:36 > 2:23:39expected the government would offer sanctuary to thousands, not just a
2:23:39 > 2:23:43couple of hundred. There's no shame in reversing a bad decision, let's
2:23:43 > 2:23:47fill those remaining places and scrap the deadline, open up more
2:23:47 > 2:23:52places for children who arrived in Europe after March 20 16. Secondly I
2:23:52 > 2:23:56would guarantee that family reunification provisions anon
2:23:56 > 2:23:58accompanied children are not restricted in the event that the UK
2:23:58 > 2:24:02ceases to be bound by Dublin three. And thirdly I call upon the
2:24:02 > 2:24:07government to support the bill in the other place which will amend our
2:24:07 > 2:24:12existing immigration rules to allow adult siblings, grandparents and
2:24:12 > 2:24:16ankles with refugee status to sponsor unaccompanied children from
2:24:16 > 2:24:20outside Europe to join in the UK. I cannot overstate the horrific truth
2:24:20 > 2:24:24that, the longer this goes on, the more likely more children will fall
2:24:24 > 2:24:29into the evil hands of traffickers. While Brexit dominates the agenda in
2:24:29 > 2:24:34this place children in desperate need. It's an accident of history
2:24:34 > 2:24:38that it is those families, those children, facing the code in Calais.
2:24:38 > 2:24:45Let's imagine they were our families. Would we not want a
2:24:45 > 2:24:48foreign and do Hubbard when we answer that honestly we will know
2:24:48 > 2:24:53exactly what we need to do now. Victoria Atkins.Thank you Madam
2:24:53 > 2:24:58Deputy Speaker. May I thank my honourable friend the Member for
2:24:58 > 2:25:01South Cambridgeshire and the Member for Walthamstow for calling this
2:25:01 > 2:25:07debate. It's been a very interesting and at times difficult debate to
2:25:07 > 2:25:12listen to because we know the terrible examples on the Middle East
2:25:12 > 2:25:22and elsewhere in Europe and here at home that we see the terrible
2:25:22 > 2:25:27crises. I was moved by the experiences of my honourable friend
2:25:27 > 2:25:31for aggression with his military expertise. I'm sure that has helped
2:25:31 > 2:25:36bring an extra dimension sorry, my honourable and gallant friend. My
2:25:36 > 2:25:40neighbour is telling me off! It has been a pleasure to listen to this
2:25:40 > 2:25:44debate because on the whole it has been a consensual debate and a
2:25:44 > 2:25:50consensual motion. I know that the honourable lady for West Ham perhaps
2:25:50 > 2:25:55was not so consensual in some of the remarks but actually it has been a
2:25:55 > 2:26:01consensual debate on a whole. I look at the motion and I am pleased that
2:26:01 > 2:26:06the motion recognises that the UK has demonstrated moral and political
2:26:06 > 2:26:12leadership. And that it is also focusing on accessing safe and legal
2:26:12 > 2:26:18means to reunite families and relatives in the EU with the hope
2:26:18 > 2:26:23that we will meet the standards of the Dublin three regulation and I'm
2:26:23 > 2:26:26sure for my part but the minister has been listening carefully and
2:26:26 > 2:26:30that this government is entirely committed to ensuring that we
2:26:30 > 2:26:36continue to preserve that access and to do our part when it comes to
2:26:36 > 2:26:40looking after the children of the world. Very quickly because I'm
2:26:40 > 2:26:45conscious others want to speak.I will be quick. I think our country
2:26:45 > 2:26:50has done very well. We've taken more people into our country than any
2:26:50 > 2:26:53other European country and we have definitely brought far more people
2:26:53 > 2:26:58than any other country direct from the countries where they originated
2:26:58 > 2:27:06into this country, avoiding this awful journey.My honourable friend
2:27:06 > 2:27:11has read my notes! I was just about to move on to things we can agree
2:27:11 > 2:27:15on. No one wants child or indeed addled refugees to fall victim to
2:27:15 > 2:27:19gangs of serious organised crime running the people trafficking
2:27:19 > 2:27:24rules. We can all agree that we must target those gangs, they are in it
2:27:24 > 2:27:28for profit and nothing more. We can also agree surely that when children
2:27:28 > 2:27:33come to live in this country and will be offered a home, that they
2:27:33 > 2:27:38receive the highest levels of care. I saw recently in the papers, it was
2:27:38 > 2:27:43reported that children from Vietnam who have been taken into care as
2:27:43 > 2:27:48part of our refugee programme are going missing within hours or days
2:27:48 > 2:27:51of finding foster care because they are being tempted back out sometimes
2:27:51 > 2:27:56physically, taken back out by criminal gangs in this country. We
2:27:56 > 2:27:59cannot and must not let that happen. We have got to remember that when
2:27:59 > 2:28:03they are here, when people come to this country we need to look after
2:28:03 > 2:28:07them properly. I'm sure we can agree that expanding the vulnerable
2:28:07 > 2:28:12persons resettlement scheme from just Syria to all nationalities,
2:28:12 > 2:28:19that was a good thing, and entirely just. And as my honourable friend
2:28:19 > 2:28:23has said the UK's record and this is significant, more than eight and a
2:28:23 > 2:28:28half thousand people have been resettled so far, half of them
2:28:28 > 2:28:32children, and in 2016 in the UK resettled more refugees from outside
2:28:32 > 2:28:38Europe than any other EU country. Over one third of all resettlement
2:28:38 > 2:28:43to the EU was to the UK that year. That is something we should
2:28:43 > 2:28:50acknowledge in the consensual terms of this debate. I listened carefully
2:28:50 > 2:28:57to the intervention of the honourable member from Walthamstow,
2:28:57 > 2:29:00but the expertise of Home Office officials. My only concern about
2:29:00 > 2:29:05that approach and I completely understand why she asks, is that we
2:29:05 > 2:29:12have to observe the fact that other countries are sovereign country so
2:29:12 > 2:29:16we cannot just roll into town, as it were, and take over the immigration
2:29:16 > 2:29:20systems. We have to, so imagine the Minister will say, we have to work
2:29:20 > 2:29:24very much in co-operation and punishable with them.
2:29:32 > 2:29:35The point is, the honourable member for Gravesham is concerned about
2:29:35 > 2:29:42illegal people being here, but the point is we don't do that, children
2:29:42 > 2:29:47are coming in illegally.Again, we can agree on the fact we do not want
2:29:47 > 2:29:52any illegal immigration not least because illegal immigration from my
2:29:52 > 2:29:56criminal Akram, sometimes the people who come here illegally, not
2:29:56 > 2:30:01refugees or others are here with bad intent but what I was trying to make
2:30:01 > 2:30:04the point was, we have to try to find a way of working better with
2:30:04 > 2:30:07our neighbours to make sure their systems work as well as we would
2:30:07 > 2:30:13like them to work and I hope we can agree to work in this country. I
2:30:13 > 2:30:17will end if I may, Madam Deputy Speaker, on a wider philosophical
2:30:17 > 2:30:21questions which is, and it's been touched upon by my wonderful and
2:30:21 > 2:30:29honourable friend for Cannock Chase which is the point about immigration
2:30:29 > 2:30:32being an international problem, the like of which I believe we are only
2:30:32 > 2:30:38beginning to comprehend the enormity of the task ahead of us. Because we
2:30:38 > 2:30:44are seeing across the world people on the move, they may be on the move
2:30:44 > 2:30:49because they live in conflict sums, or zones, as we've seen sadly in
2:30:49 > 2:30:52Burma, it may be they are on the move because they have the entirely
2:30:52 > 2:30:57human aspiration to have a better and create a better life for
2:30:57 > 2:31:01themselves and their families. And the developed countries in this
2:31:01 > 2:31:05world are going to have to find a way of how we deal with this,
2:31:05 > 2:31:12whether it's trying to ensure the conflict zones, we saw at them out,
2:31:12 > 2:31:17whether it's trying to find ways as we do through international
2:31:17 > 2:31:20development of raising the tide of economic well-being so that
2:31:20 > 2:31:25everybody has the chance of a good life and opportunities in life, we
2:31:25 > 2:31:29are going to have to face the challenge, do it across the world
2:31:29 > 2:31:33and sadly it's going to be an issue with us for years and years to come.
2:31:33 > 2:31:39Thank you.Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to thank the
2:31:39 > 2:31:43honourable members who have prompted this debate. Imagine for a moment
2:31:43 > 2:31:50that it your child who is alone in a foreign country, unable to speak the
2:31:50 > 2:31:53language, at risk of being trafficked, as a parent, would you
2:31:53 > 2:32:00want that for your child? No parent would and we have a duty of care and
2:32:00 > 2:32:03a civic responsibility to make sure that these vulnerable children are
2:32:03 > 2:32:09protected. Madam Deputy Speaker, this country has a proud history of
2:32:09 > 2:32:14protect and supporting vulnerable children, going right back to the
2:32:14 > 2:32:20candour transport of World War II, for children fleeing persecution
2:32:20 > 2:32:29were offered support and love and shelter. Children and Families Bill
2:32:29 > 2:32:35who escape are can go on to achieve a happy and fulfilled life, these
2:32:35 > 2:32:39same children could become future leaders in business and the arts,
2:32:39 > 2:32:43future politicians who will drive change in our communities. We need
2:32:43 > 2:32:49the UK to be a world leader on this issue. We need to look back at our
2:32:49 > 2:32:55history and we need to learn from that. We need swift action to
2:32:55 > 2:33:00reunite families. Currently it can take up to six months for a child to
2:33:00 > 2:33:05be registered under the process to even begin, this is simply not good
2:33:05 > 2:33:09enough. Never mind six months, the government should be doing it in
2:33:09 > 2:33:15under six days. We also need established safe places away from
2:33:15 > 2:33:18Calais or children and Families Bill and be taken. This would reduce the
2:33:18 > 2:33:24risk of children humming to harm whilst the cases are processed.
2:33:24 > 2:33:27Madam Deputy Speaker, as I have raised previously in this House,
2:33:27 > 2:33:32legal aid was removed from refugee family reunion cases following the
2:33:32 > 2:33:36passing of the legal aid sentencing and punishing of offenders act in
2:33:36 > 2:33:432012. I have worked for a number of years was different organisations in
2:33:43 > 2:33:49my constituency and across the area, supporting families and children
2:33:49 > 2:33:55resettled into our communities. Volunteer groups whose goal is to
2:33:55 > 2:33:59create a network of groups and organisations which are proud to be
2:33:59 > 2:34:03places of safety for people seeking Santry and helping them integrate
2:34:03 > 2:34:09into the local community. Recently I attended the launch of a project in
2:34:09 > 2:34:14Marsden, set up by a Syrian refugee who uses his expertise in beekeeping
2:34:14 > 2:34:17to help other refugees to make a living and in spring next year they
2:34:17 > 2:34:22hope to harvest their first crop of honey. Madam Deputy Speaker, this
2:34:22 > 2:34:30project and other projects such as destitute asylum seekers
2:34:30 > 2:34:33Huddersfield, sees once we open our hearts to refugees fleeing the
2:34:33 > 2:34:36horrors of war and genocide that they can give so much back to our
2:34:36 > 2:34:43country. So the next China time you tuck your child into bed at night
2:34:43 > 2:34:48thing about these children lying scattered in a cold camp, frightened
2:34:48 > 2:34:51for their life. Next time you give your child a hug think about these
2:34:51 > 2:34:56children just across the Channel was no one there to hold them. Next time
2:34:56 > 2:35:00you laugh and play with your child, think about these children with no
2:35:00 > 2:35:05want to engage with and care for them. It's difficult and upsetting
2:35:05 > 2:35:09to think about the challenges these children face every single day but
2:35:09 > 2:35:14they need our help more than ever. So as the UK turns away from the
2:35:14 > 2:35:18European Union we need to make sure we don't turn our backs on these
2:35:18 > 2:35:25vulnerable children.Madden Deputy Speaker, this is an incredibly
2:35:25 > 2:35:29important issue and it's a pleasure to follow the honourable lady who
2:35:29 > 2:35:33made a very emotive contribution. I vividly remember the debates we had
2:35:33 > 2:35:39in this chamber regarding child refugees. The need to help those
2:35:39 > 2:35:43vulnerable children stuck in squalid conditions through the dubs scheme,
2:35:43 > 2:35:48I may have even had a disagreement with the government on this issue so
2:35:48 > 2:35:53we've changed the Chief and deputy Chief Whip so all is well again,
2:35:53 > 2:35:59possibly. I am proud of our record as a government, I'm proud we
2:35:59 > 2:36:06provided sanctuary for unaccompanied children, in 2016 we transferred
2:36:06 > 2:36:08over 900 unaccompanied asylum seeking children to the UK from
2:36:08 > 2:36:13Europe. More than 750 of those were from France as part of the UK
2:36:13 > 2:36:18support for the Calais camp clearance. In the same year the UK
2:36:18 > 2:36:23settled more refugees from outside Europe than any other EU country.
2:36:23 > 2:36:29According to figures more than a third of people settled in Europe
2:36:29 > 2:36:33came to the UK, this is something to be proud of and I hope our European
2:36:33 > 2:36:38colleagues will listen and follow our lead. More widely, the UK has
2:36:38 > 2:36:43granted asylum or another form of leave to over 9000 children in the
2:36:43 > 2:36:47past year alone, since 2010 it's been over 40 2000. I want to say
2:36:47 > 2:36:52that this motion is right, we need to ensure there are safe and legal
2:36:52 > 2:36:57means for unaccompanied child refugees to come to the UK. Everyone
2:36:57 > 2:37:01in this chamber will no doubt agree we need to stamp out people
2:37:01 > 2:37:06traffickers, and a profit of the vulnerable and they don't care about
2:37:06 > 2:37:11their welfare. Where we don't have safe and legal routes, people
2:37:11 > 2:37:17smugglers not only operate but they thrive. We should be clear that the
2:37:17 > 2:37:19primary responsibility for unaccompanied children in France
2:37:19 > 2:37:23lies with the French government. And I would encourage my right
2:37:23 > 2:37:27honourable friend to purge his counterpart to ensure they are doing
2:37:27 > 2:37:33everything they can to process asylum applications. Further while
2:37:33 > 2:37:38we continue to be a member of the European Union we will participate
2:37:38 > 2:37:42in Dublin III and it's in all of our interests that we continue to
2:37:42 > 2:37:46cooperate on asylum and migration, legal and illegal once we have left.
2:37:46 > 2:37:51We should bear in mind unaccompanied children cannot make applications
2:37:51 > 2:37:55for family reunification under the Dublin regulation, the Dublin
2:37:55 > 2:37:59regulation is a mechanism to determine which member state is
2:37:59 > 2:38:04responsible for the consideration of any asylum claim. It is not and
2:38:04 > 2:38:09never has been a family reunification route in of itself.
2:38:09 > 2:38:13However we must look to the future. By except that the nature of any
2:38:13 > 2:38:17future agreement is still to be discussed with the European Union.
2:38:17 > 2:38:22And that will be as part of the negotiation process and it would be
2:38:22 > 2:38:26actually wrong to set out our position in advance. Yet what we can
2:38:26 > 2:38:31do is set out our principles. But we are proud of the UK's long history
2:38:31 > 2:38:35of offering sanctuary to those who needed. Will my honourable friend...
2:38:35 > 2:38:40Of course. Does my honourable friend agree with me we should be proud of
2:38:40 > 2:38:45what the UK has done in totality in terms of the support we provide
2:38:45 > 2:38:48refugees and particularly those most vulnerable?
2:38:51 > 2:38:55I thank my honourable friend for the intervention and I sometimes think
2:38:55 > 2:38:59there is a danger in this House we make of it the enemy of the good and
2:38:59 > 2:39:02I am proud of what the government is doing. To come back to the
2:39:02 > 2:39:06government we are proud of the UK's history of offering Santry to those
2:39:06 > 2:39:11who need it, we will always offer asylum to those fleeing war,
2:39:11 > 2:39:13genocide or persecution, Britain will continue to make sure that
2:39:13 > 2:39:16vulnerable unaccompanied children will be able to join their families
2:39:16 > 2:39:21here. The government has played an important role in responding to the
2:39:21 > 2:39:25migration crisis as my honourable friend the Member for Cannock Chase
2:39:25 > 2:39:29just said. We insured we settled the most honourable children directly
2:39:29 > 2:39:33from the region, we pursue trafficking networks and criminals
2:39:33 > 2:39:38who profit from misery and desperation, we are one of the
2:39:38 > 2:39:43largest contributors of aid and development to the Serie A conflict.
2:39:43 > 2:39:46As the motion says, the UK has demonstrated moral and political
2:39:46 > 2:39:51leadership on this issue, long may it continue.I have to reduce the
2:39:51 > 2:39:59time limit to three minutes.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and the
2:39:59 > 2:40:01honourable member for South Cambridgeshire and my honourable
2:40:01 > 2:40:06friend from Walthamstow for securing the debate. There are fundamental
2:40:06 > 2:40:10questions that arise from this, what kind of society and mission to be
2:40:10 > 2:40:16want to be? We want to be part of a society that reminded generous and
2:40:16 > 2:40:19compassionate and knows its role in the world and does not shirk
2:40:19 > 2:40:24responsibilities in Leeds, in my constituency Leeds North West there
2:40:24 > 2:40:28is incredible work being done by charities...I will give way. I
2:40:28 > 2:40:38thank him for giving way, I want to say, the people of Scotland, some
2:40:38 > 2:40:47constituents organised contributions, we got together, we
2:40:47 > 2:40:49got two warehouses, we fill them up and supplied the world, I want to
2:40:49 > 2:40:55put that down, as one of those people who helped us volunteers, a
2:40:55 > 2:41:00young girl Leanne Hopkins who wanted to help, she said I was a child, she
2:41:00 > 2:41:04still was a child at the time she died recently and I want to pay
2:41:04 > 2:41:09tribute to her and put that on the record.I would like to pay tribute
2:41:09 > 2:41:12to my honourable friend and his constituent for the work she did and
2:41:12 > 2:41:15the work they have done for so many children in Calais and the
2:41:15 > 2:41:23honourable members in this House and the constituents have done. Carrying
2:41:23 > 2:41:26on, local authorities often have to act in short notice and under
2:41:26 > 2:41:34competing pressures on resources to house vulnerable and refugees and
2:41:34 > 2:41:38asylum seekers and find homes for children when they are offered.
2:41:38 > 2:41:44Northern cities have deep humanitarian traditions going back
2:41:44 > 2:41:49to the Huguenots, timber transport but as budgets continue to be
2:41:49 > 2:41:54slashed, the strain is apparent. Child protection UK is
2:41:54 > 2:42:00decentralised, the care of unaccompanied refugee children is it
2:42:00 > 2:42:06case of confusion, and their well-being and future is in the
2:42:06 > 2:42:09hands of these institutions. Local authorities and charities would like
2:42:09 > 2:42:14nothing more than to be able to act confidently and swiftly in assisting
2:42:14 > 2:42:17child review Jese but it's not uncommon for local authorities to
2:42:17 > 2:42:21find themselves having to do with unworkable demands to has refugee
2:42:21 > 2:42:29children. As such a report by June seven, 2016 on child refugees made a
2:42:29 > 2:42:36recommendation and I quote... It called to ensure that local
2:42:36 > 2:42:38authorities have the financial resources and operational capacity
2:42:38 > 2:42:48to enable this assessments to be carried out. Without guidance, these
2:42:48 > 2:42:53local government constitutions risk falling short. We as a nation have
2:42:53 > 2:42:59fallen short of best traditions of humanitarianism in this issue.
2:42:59 > 2:43:02According to the United Nations high Commissioner for refugees, hundreds
2:43:02 > 2:43:06of thousands have made their way this year, over two and a half
2:43:06 > 2:43:09thousand refugees are thought to have died or gone missing in the
2:43:09 > 2:43:14process, in the same period three and a half percent of asylum process
2:43:14 > 2:43:18rate in Europe were made in the UK. The UK is the second wealthiest
2:43:18 > 2:43:23nation in Europe, ranking a lamentable ninth in childhood asylum
2:43:23 > 2:43:27applications, we are clearly not pulling our weight and it is clearly
2:43:27 > 2:43:30shown by this come at the pull factors are not a factor when it
2:43:30 > 2:43:34comes to child refugees. The long-term are few established
2:43:34 > 2:43:38benefits to isolationism, domestic problems and anxieties we face as a
2:43:38 > 2:43:43nation are impacted I Beyonce men -- events beyond our immediate control.
2:43:43 > 2:43:48We cannot retreat from challengers, we should never be comfortable
2:43:48 > 2:43:51retreating from challengers of sharing responsibility for child
2:43:51 > 2:43:55refugees, this ghost to the heart of who we are as a people and a nation.
2:43:55 > 2:43:59The nation may have voted for Brexit but it did not vote to turn its back
2:43:59 > 2:44:09on child refugees.David Linden. Since being elected to this place
2:44:09 > 2:44:12the issue of unaccompanied child refugees has been a major topic in
2:44:12 > 2:44:20my postbag and I'm glad I have the opportunity to debate this today. My
2:44:20 > 2:44:24honourable friend the lady from South Cambridge has a ready set the
2:44:24 > 2:44:28scene but before I talk about the Dublin regulations let me touch on
2:44:28 > 2:44:34the Dubs Amendment. I will give way.
2:44:34 > 2:44:38I am grateful to my honourable friend forgiving way. Would he agree
2:44:38 > 2:44:44that by establishing a safe and legal road the Dubs defeats
2:44:44 > 2:44:48attackers who seek to exploit vulnerable children.I thank my
2:44:48 > 2:44:51honourable friend from Cardigan, he is right, one of the great
2:44:51 > 2:44:56misfortunes is that this government has been talking about a poll factor
2:44:56 > 2:45:07without evidence on that and if you cannot put up you must shut up. This
2:45:07 > 2:45:10has been described as the worst humanitarian crisis since World War
2:45:10 > 2:45:16II, we would like to see the Dubs scheme continued to see the UK take
2:45:16 > 2:45:19on list 2009 accompanied children refugees. We would like the
2:45:19 > 2:45:24government to increase the total number of refugees resettled under
2:45:24 > 2:45:28the vulnerable persons resettlement programme. Yesterday I met with a
2:45:28 > 2:45:33representative of the rescue team who had some very harrowing
2:45:33 > 2:45:40statistics concerning children in Europe. Europe reports almost 90,000
2:45:40 > 2:45:47refugee children in Europe. It is estimated that M26 team around 33800
2:45:47 > 2:45:51and unaccompanied asylum seeking children arrived in Greece, Bulgaria
2:45:51 > 2:45:55and Spain, the majority of these arrived in Italy. The UK Government
2:45:55 > 2:46:02had axed the Dubs Amendment, capping the number of children at 480. The
2:46:02 > 2:46:07crisis has not gone away and people are still fleeing violence in Syria,
2:46:07 > 2:46:11and other countries which creates serious risks for non-accompanied
2:46:11 > 2:46:21children falling into the hands of traffickers. I want at this stage to
2:46:21 > 2:46:25commend many of the local authorities in Scotland to have
2:46:25 > 2:46:30embraced the hospitality that many refugees from Syria, said it has
2:46:30 > 2:46:41been outstanding when it comes to welcoming those who are nicknamed
2:46:41 > 2:46:45refu-Weegees! And conscious of times before concluding I would like to
2:46:45 > 2:46:49just ask the Minister to respond to a few questions doing the wind-up of
2:46:49 > 2:46:52the debate. Will Her Majesty 's government consider moving the date
2:46:52 > 2:46:58of entry to Europe until after March 20, 2016, if there are spaces
2:46:58 > 2:47:04available under the Dubs Amendment and given that that are currently
2:47:04 > 2:47:092590 unaccompanied children in Greece and Italy what assessment has
2:47:09 > 2:47:17been made of the UK's ability to take more than 480 children. How
2:47:17 > 2:47:22many more dead toddlers will it take to wash up on a beach before most of
2:47:22 > 2:47:26us sat up and took notice of the reality of this humanitarian
2:47:26 > 2:47:29disaster? Those voters have their disappeared from the papers and the
2:47:29 > 2:47:32story has largely faded. I think we've heard enough of the little
2:47:32 > 2:47:36Britain approach on the benches opposite today. Those voters have
2:47:36 > 2:47:40disappeared from the papers and the story faded but the crisis rages on
2:47:40 > 2:47:52and this government can and must do more on this.Andy Slaughter.I
2:47:52 > 2:47:56visited the refugees in Calais on two different occasions, in December
2:47:56 > 2:48:022015 with a group of local paramedics giving up their time
2:48:02 > 2:48:07voluntarily to give medical assistant and two months ago with
2:48:07 > 2:48:14safe passage to welcome refugees, we went over and looked at what had
2:48:14 > 2:48:17happened since the camp had been demolished, just about Wally go. I
2:48:17 > 2:48:23don't pretend that the situation in Calais is the most dramatic of the
2:48:23 > 2:48:32worst situation for refugees fleeing persecution but it is on our
2:48:32 > 2:48:35doorstep and almost overwhelmingly the people in and around Calais are
2:48:35 > 2:48:39there because they believe they have either a right to come to the UK or
2:48:39 > 2:48:44a particular reason for wanting to convert added as emblematic of many
2:48:44 > 2:48:47of the problems we have. We fetched double different interpretations of
2:48:47 > 2:48:53what the Jungle was like, one that it was a place of utter despair,
2:48:53 > 2:48:56lawlessness and place and vitality and the other that it was a thriving
2:48:56 > 2:48:59environment with shops and churches and theatres. The answer is that
2:48:59 > 2:49:04both are true. Its teacher the extraordinary resourcefulness of the
2:49:04 > 2:49:08people there as well as the risks that they were up against. What is
2:49:08 > 2:49:13certain is that if you go there now, it is simply wasteland and yet
2:49:13 > 2:49:19around the port there are something and thousand people, including
2:49:19 > 2:49:25children sleeping rough, and the number of those children have rights
2:49:25 > 2:49:30under Dublin three and a number that would qualify as Dubs children. Let
2:49:30 > 2:49:35me say that having Lord Dubs as a constituent in Hammersmith is a
2:49:35 > 2:49:39source of great pride and keeps me on my toes as you can imagine! What
2:49:39 > 2:49:46we do. The situation is more brutal than it was two years ago. There are
2:49:46 > 2:49:51no facilities for the people there now. There's concerted campaign as
2:49:51 > 2:49:56well documented by the authorities to drive people away using brutal
2:49:56 > 2:49:59tactics, and I would like the Minister to come and whether UK
2:49:59 > 2:50:06money is going in to support the riot police and against the
2:50:06 > 2:50:11oppression going on there. We also have an opportunity, Madam Deputy
2:50:11 > 2:50:16Speaker. If we leave the EU, what will we do to honour the conditions
2:50:16 > 2:50:21of Dublin three and what will we do to honour the obligations given to
2:50:21 > 2:50:24Lord Dubs? Last week there was a lobby and we have the chance to meet
2:50:24 > 2:50:28some of the children who came over last year and like many of those in
2:50:28 > 2:50:34our constituency, many refugee children are doing extremely well.
2:50:34 > 2:50:38Some fear being deported back, if they are under 18, I asked the
2:50:38 > 2:50:42minister to come and matters well, yet in the meantime we have clear
2:50:42 > 2:50:50obligations and ones that this country should be proud to fulfil.
2:50:50 > 2:50:53Thank you and Madam Deputy Speaker it is a privilege to follow my
2:50:53 > 2:50:57friend from Hammersmith, speak in a debate that has been spoken about
2:50:57 > 2:51:03with such passion. My trip to Calais with Safe Passage was harrowing. I
2:51:03 > 2:51:08still have nightmares about the stories I was told and it is, I want
2:51:08 > 2:51:13to spend a brief moment just talking about how painful and difficult it
2:51:13 > 2:51:18is for those young people in that area. I spoke to children from
2:51:18 > 2:51:22Eritrea, Syria, northern Iraq, Ethiopia, and Libya. And did you the
2:51:22 > 2:51:27stories about how difficult it is for them now, and the fact that many
2:51:27 > 2:51:30did not want to speak about their journey, they did not want to speak
2:51:30 > 2:51:36about what had happened in their home country, to me that is the
2:51:36 > 2:51:41dangers of the sea, the dangers of the journey, to reach Calais and
2:51:41 > 2:51:48onwards to Britain would be worth it. I went to Calais with a Plymouth
2:51:48 > 2:51:55campaigner who works for safe passage and founded an organisation
2:51:55 > 2:52:00called Open Hearts, Open Borders. She collects resources from across
2:52:00 > 2:52:03the south-west to send to non-accompanied refugees, not just
2:52:03 > 2:52:08in Calais and she joins people from across the UK who give up their time
2:52:08 > 2:52:12and resources to support these young, often forgotten, young
2:52:12 > 2:52:16people. She wrote to me and said, like you I was appalled, child
2:52:16 > 2:52:21refugees are having their bedding stolen, trench foot is rife and
2:52:21 > 2:52:25police violence against them happens almost every night. I wonder if the
2:52:25 > 2:52:36minister might be able to answer what oversight this House can have
2:52:36 > 2:52:38over the money spent by the Home Office in supporting the French
2:52:38 > 2:52:41police because to hear stories about how children sleeping rough at night
2:52:41 > 2:52:43are sprayed with tear gas as the sleep by French police raises
2:52:43 > 2:52:45serious concerns about what money we spending to give the French police
2:52:45 > 2:52:49that they are then using to assault and brutalised children. There is no
2:52:49 > 2:52:54protection to these young children. They sleep rough at night, fearful
2:52:54 > 2:53:02about what might happen to them, fearful, it is the experiences of
2:53:02 > 2:53:12their journey to get there, the report entitled Neither Safe Zero
2:53:12 > 2:53:16Sound, said that for boys as well as women, their greatest fear was being
2:53:16 > 2:53:24raped. Calais is closer to this place than zero is. Their
2:53:24 > 2:53:27constituencies are further from this place than these children are in
2:53:27 > 2:53:33Calais at this moment. Christmas is coming. Happily.I just wanted to
2:53:33 > 2:53:36mention the context of nightmares and things that stay with you. The
2:53:36 > 2:53:40most harrowing story I heard when I was in Calais was a doctor from
2:53:40 > 2:53:45Medecins Sans Frontieres is saying how tired he was of constantly
2:53:45 > 2:53:51stitching up little boys, and that has stayed with me forever.I think
2:53:51 > 2:53:57you for your intervention. Children across the country must be wondering
2:53:57 > 2:54:01what Father Christmas will bring them. The children sleeping rough in
2:54:01 > 2:54:05Calais want to go to school, they want to have a roof over their
2:54:05 > 2:54:09heads, have a family, you'd reunited with family, in many cases we have a
2:54:09 > 2:54:15moral and legal obligation to reunite them. But we are expecting a
2:54:15 > 2:54:18cold winter. I expect children to die sleeping rough in Calais this
2:54:18 > 2:54:25winter. The urgency that we need to act is not only an urgency about
2:54:25 > 2:54:28those children, it is something that stays with me each and every day. If
2:54:28 > 2:54:33they will Plymouth children will attract. The noise and the Severus
2:54:33 > 2:54:38nature of the debates would be such that we will be acting swiftly --
2:54:38 > 2:54:41fever sufferers of nature, because they are non-accompanied children
2:54:41 > 2:54:45who are refugees they are forgotten. Hopefully this debate will remind
2:54:45 > 2:54:49not only those in the House, government ministers but also the
2:54:49 > 2:54:54public what an obligation we all have and how after Brexit we have a
2:54:54 > 2:54:58choice of what country we want to be and I want us to be a beacon country
2:54:58 > 2:55:03that puts its value is proudly and supports people and definitely
2:55:03 > 2:55:11support these unaccompanied child refugees desperate for our help.
2:55:11 > 2:55:15Refu-Weegees I am pleased to be called. I can say hand on heart that
2:55:15 > 2:55:19I cannot begin to imagine the plight of these children go through but my
2:55:19 > 2:55:27heart goes out to them. We've all seen the images on TV, they are in a
2:55:27 > 2:55:32predicament through no fault of their own, when I say we should help
2:55:32 > 2:55:36we must help, we must take steps, we will take steps. One of our
2:55:36 > 2:55:41honourable members said earlier, if they were our children, what would
2:55:41 > 2:55:45we do. We must exercise wisdom in how we play our role. If we can, in
2:55:45 > 2:55:51a short time, names of the things we've done in Northern Ireland with
2:55:51 > 2:55:55government help. The first Syrian refugees to arrive in Northern
2:55:55 > 2:56:00Ireland came to Belfast in December 20 15. We had 51 people, ten
2:56:00 > 2:56:08families. They were housed in the north and west side of Belfast, so
2:56:08 > 2:56:13far nine Maghrib Sabine broad, bringing the number two 500, and now
2:56:13 > 2:56:19another 182 have come, we hope to take 2000 refugees. That may seem
2:56:19 > 2:56:25not like a lot but we are a small region, we are doing our bed and we
2:56:25 > 2:56:29have our commitment, I want to but it on record in this chamber that we
2:56:29 > 2:56:35do those things. -- we are doing our bit. I'm happy to give way.I am
2:56:35 > 2:56:39most grateful. May I say what to work is being done in Northern
2:56:39 > 2:56:44Ireland. Would he agree that it is vital that sadly, in these days, we
2:56:44 > 2:56:48have this crisis, there will be refugee crisis in the future and it
2:56:48 > 2:56:56is vital that these networks of support for refugees maintained in
2:56:56 > 2:56:58all regions, because they will be vital for any future refugee crises
2:56:58 > 2:57:03that we come across.I agree with the honourable member
2:57:03 > 2:57:07wholeheartedly. In order to support the Syrian refugee families with
2:57:07 > 2:57:10full integration, sometimes it is good to remember, it's not just
2:57:10 > 2:57:17about bringing them in, there's a real need to support them with
2:57:17 > 2:57:21health, benefits and school places for children. These are met by a
2:57:21 > 2:57:26Home Office allocations for the first year. I do subscribe, we have
2:57:26 > 2:57:30250 places, we said, let's fill them, let's make it clear what we
2:57:30 > 2:57:36are about. In the United Kingdom. We must work out which occasions minute
2:57:36 > 2:57:40opening doors and Richmond and stepping in and doing what we can.
2:57:40 > 2:57:46When I looked up to see the allocations that the Home Office
2:57:46 > 2:57:51provides, let's make it clear, some £11,000 per refugee to cover the
2:57:51 > 2:57:55costs of the first year, that covers a resettlement course, housing, key
2:57:55 > 2:58:00workers aboard, that's very important, education, health care
2:58:00 > 2:58:03costs, these are all part of the integrated system of the full
2:58:03 > 2:58:07package that needs to be done, the Home Office may to make additional
2:58:07 > 2:58:12money available to cover additional costs for any complex needs cases
2:58:12 > 2:58:14because there are many complex needs cases whenever they come in. The
2:58:14 > 2:58:19Home Office also provides financial support for the resettlement of
2:58:19 > 2:58:26refugees, up to five years after their arrival, again on going, what
2:58:26 > 2:58:35our government is doing in, the funding will be sufficient to cover
2:58:35 > 2:58:38the costs of managing the arrival in settlement of the refugees expected
2:58:38 > 2:58:41to arrive. The government has many methods to help resettlement
2:58:41 > 2:58:48refugees. I like to fly here and every time I fly back, on the plains
2:58:48 > 2:58:55you get this demonstration of safety. It never changes. It's still
2:58:55 > 2:58:58important though. They make it clear, in the case of oxygen needed
2:58:58 > 2:59:02we must first put on the mask before we help others to ensure we can help
2:59:02 > 2:59:07others. I believe the same applies here refu-Weegees except for one
2:59:07 > 2:59:13difference. We have the oxygen and I think we should make sure we can
2:59:13 > 2:59:22help. In conclusion, can we show if we can do more and if we can, why
2:59:22 > 2:59:26aren't we. And if we aren't then what can be do for these children
2:59:26 > 2:59:28and indeed children in similar circumstances across the world
2:59:28 > 2:59:33because this is what the debate is about and the member might have made
2:59:33 > 2:59:39that clear, we want action. Thank you.
2:59:39 > 2:59:46I would like to start by congratulating the honourable
2:59:46 > 2:59:50members in securing this debate this afternoon, which is about what we do
2:59:50 > 2:59:55for unaccompanied child refugees that are in Europe, on the European
2:59:55 > 3:00:00continent. I had hoped to be able to say in summing up for the third
3:00:00 > 3:00:03party that there was a member -- measure of cross-party agreement
3:00:03 > 3:00:07that more should be done, and I think I probably can say that,
3:00:07 > 3:00:12albeit there have been one or two dissenting voices. I am going to
3:00:12 > 3:00:17come to deal with the pull and push factors are given in a moment. But I
3:00:17 > 3:00:23just want to say this. The motion notes that the United Kingdom has in
3:00:23 > 3:00:27the past demonstrated moral and political leadership, and that it
3:00:27 > 3:00:32must do so again. Several speakers this afternoon have mentioned the
3:00:32 > 3:00:36Kindertransport. I was privileged and humbled to meet with an old lady
3:00:36 > 3:00:41we sleep who came to the United Kingdom on the Kindertransport. The
3:00:41 > 3:00:45things she was most keen to impress on me was not her experience, but
3:00:45 > 3:00:52that we in the UK now must take similar steps to help modern child
3:00:52 > 3:00:56refugees in Europe. That was her message. And it is right that there
3:00:56 > 3:01:00should be a degree of cross-party agreement about this because it is,
3:01:00 > 3:01:04of course, a moral responsibility, and not something that should break
3:01:04 > 3:01:13down on party political lines. I said I wanted to deal with the
3:01:13 > 3:01:17comments about Paul factor. I am going to do so by referring to the
3:01:17 > 3:01:21findings of a substantial report that was launched in the other place
3:01:21 > 3:01:27during the summer, an independent enquiry into the situation of
3:01:27 > 3:01:33separated and unaccompanied minors in parts of Europe. This was
3:01:33 > 3:01:36originally the idea of the All Party Parliamentary Group on Cancer and
3:01:36 > 3:01:41moderns in. The general election was called, dissolving the group, but
3:01:41 > 3:01:46they felt that the dangers facing children in Europe were so great
3:01:46 > 3:01:51from human trafficking that the report should be done nevertheless,
3:01:51 > 3:01:56and it was done and it reported in July. One of the reasons this report
3:01:56 > 3:02:02was commissioned was to deal with something that the Home Secretary
3:02:02 > 3:02:06said in responding to a question in the previous parliament on the 9th
3:02:06 > 3:02:10of February, when she said that continuing to access children under
3:02:10 > 3:02:16the Dubs Amendment indefinitely acted as a Paul, which encouraged
3:02:16 > 3:02:22people traffickers. And that if we continue to take numbers of children
3:02:22 > 3:02:25from European countries, particularly France, that will act
3:02:25 > 3:02:31as a magnet for traffickers. It was this statement that particularly
3:02:31 > 3:02:33compelled the right honourable Fiona McTaggart and Baroness Butler 's
3:02:33 > 3:02:40loss to get this enquiry under way. Their findings, and the evidence
3:02:40 > 3:02:45gathered during their enquiry, demonstrated numerous push and pull
3:02:45 > 3:02:49factors, but they did not receive any evidence to support the
3:02:49 > 3:02:53government's position that the safe transfer of children to the UK is a
3:02:53 > 3:02:59pulling factor in terms of encouraging traffickers. On the
3:02:59 > 3:03:03contrary, the enquiry found that the chaotic manner in which these
3:03:03 > 3:03:09arrangements are handled on the ground, and then abruptly stopped,
3:03:09 > 3:03:13the government's own Administration of the Dubs scheme, those things had
3:03:13 > 3:03:18created such a lack of trust that it was feeding directly into the hands
3:03:18 > 3:03:21of the traffickers, and that children were losing faith that the
3:03:21 > 3:03:24British government would act in their best interests, and they were
3:03:24 > 3:03:28not prepared to wait four months for a decision that might never happen,
3:03:28 > 3:03:31so they turned instead to ever riskier measures of getting to the
3:03:31 > 3:03:36UK. I want to say that these children are in Europe. We might not
3:03:36 > 3:03:41like the fact that they are in Europe, but they are there. Many of
3:03:41 > 3:03:45them are accompanied. I am going to make some progress, if I may. Many
3:03:45 > 3:03:52of them are unaccompanied, and it is our moral duty to help them. And by
3:03:52 > 3:03:56failing to help them, we are actually pushing them into the hands
3:03:56 > 3:03:59of human traffickers. That is the purpose of this debate, to try and
3:03:59 > 3:04:05get the government to see the moral responsibility to continue the
3:04:05 > 3:04:10efforts they started last year, and to put them on a firmer footing to
3:04:10 > 3:04:18protect children. I will give way. It is a no-brainer. The Paul factor
3:04:18 > 3:04:21is the fact that people get to stay in Britain and Europe. If it was the
3:04:21 > 3:04:25case that people did not get to get into Britain or to stay in Europe,
3:04:25 > 3:04:29we would not have this mess and would be able to look after people
3:04:29 > 3:04:35properly in their own regions.With respect, it is not a no-brainer. I
3:04:35 > 3:04:40prefer to proceed on the basis of evidence, rather than the honourable
3:04:40 > 3:04:45gentleman's says so. This report, which I commend him to read, took
3:04:45 > 3:04:48evidence and found it was the British government's failures that
3:04:48 > 3:04:55were pushing children into the hands of traffickers, and that on the
3:04:55 > 3:04:59contrary, if we provide safe Routes to the United Kingdom, we take the
3:04:59 > 3:05:02children out of the hands of traffickers. That is what this
3:05:02 > 3:05:07debate is about this afternoon, about reinstituting the Dubs
3:05:07 > 3:05:10Amendment, understanding -- the understanding we all had. It is the
3:05:10 > 3:05:15same people at all of these debates. We all thought it would be 3000
3:05:15 > 3:05:20people, not a measly few hundred. Let's be honest about that. And then
3:05:20 > 3:05:24looking at the amendment to the EU withdrawal bill, which I have
3:05:24 > 3:05:29sponsored. I do not want the UK to leave the European Union, but if we
3:05:29 > 3:05:32are leaving the European Union, then there is an opportunity for us to
3:05:32 > 3:05:38try and get our own rules on family reunion on a firmer basis, and to
3:05:38 > 3:05:43stretch beyond just parents, to reflect the international standards.
3:05:43 > 3:05:48I would like us to remain part of international arrangements, and to
3:05:48 > 3:05:54lead on them, and I hope that is what we will do. But I think it is
3:05:54 > 3:05:58important to remember that there are some good news stories on this. And
3:05:58 > 3:06:01perhaps the good news about the children who did come here legally
3:06:01 > 3:06:06will inspire the government to do more. I am grateful to safe passage
3:06:06 > 3:06:09for a briefing which tells a little bit about what happened to some of
3:06:09 > 3:06:13the children that were brought from the Calais Campbell last year. One
3:06:13 > 3:06:19year on, many of them are living with family or foster carers, whilst
3:06:19 > 3:06:22older teenagers were placed in supported accommodation. And most
3:06:22 > 3:06:26are now enrolled in college, or attending school, some even
3:06:26 > 3:06:31preparing to go to university. So these people will be useful members
3:06:31 > 3:06:36of our society who will contribute to society and our economy. One
3:06:36 > 3:06:39problem is that some children who came to join family have since been
3:06:39 > 3:06:42taken into local authority care because the families were unable to
3:06:42 > 3:06:46support them, but there is evidence that a full -- small amount of
3:06:46 > 3:06:50financial support at crucial times can help these reunited families
3:06:50 > 3:06:56stay together in these situations. I would like to applaud Glasgow City
3:06:56 > 3:07:02Council, which provides £57.90 per week to reunited families for the
3:07:02 > 3:07:07period it takes them to access welfare benefits. And there are very
3:07:07 > 3:07:11low instances of family breakdown in Glasgow because of that. So that is
3:07:11 > 3:07:15an example of a small step that local authorities can take to assist
3:07:15 > 3:07:23in this situation. In summing up, I would say, as my honourable friend
3:07:23 > 3:07:28said, that the SNP policy on this is clear. We want to see the Dubs
3:07:28 > 3:07:32scheme continued, to enable the UK to receive at least the 3000
3:07:32 > 3:07:34unaccompanied children which this house had in mind when the amendment
3:07:34 > 3:07:40was passed. We also want the UK Government to increase the total
3:07:40 > 3:07:45number of refugees it intends to take under the Syrian vulnerable
3:07:45 > 3:07:48person resettlement programme, taking people from camps closer to
3:07:48 > 3:07:56their homes. And we want the UK Government to do its bit also by
3:07:56 > 3:08:01providing better arrangements on the ground, so there can be outreach to
3:08:01 > 3:08:07Child refugees who arrived in Calais, or children in Greece and
3:08:07 > 3:08:10Italy, who have a right to come to the UK. There should be proper
3:08:10 > 3:08:21outreach for them on the ground. There should also be - I am aware of
3:08:21 > 3:08:24the decision of the High Court this morning and I'm aware it is going to
3:08:24 > 3:08:28be appealed, but I would like more good faith on the part of the
3:08:28 > 3:08:30government in communicating with the local authorities about whether or
3:08:30 > 3:08:37not they have the wherewithal to take these children. In Scotland,
3:08:37 > 3:08:40local authorities have made great efforts, together with partner
3:08:40 > 3:08:46organisations such as the welcoming Association, which is based in my
3:08:46 > 3:08:49own constituency of Edinburgh South West. I know there are local
3:08:49 > 3:08:53authorities across the UK that have made efforts. Some have taken more
3:08:53 > 3:08:58than their fair share and have more of a burden than others. I think we
3:08:58 > 3:09:02need to share the burden more fairly. But all of this takes will
3:09:02 > 3:09:06and central core would a should. I would very much encouraged the
3:09:06 > 3:09:10Minister to give us something positive to go away with today to
3:09:10 > 3:09:14give us some indication of something he will do to change the situation
3:09:14 > 3:09:18of stalemate we seem to have reached, and to fulfil the spirit of
3:09:18 > 3:09:25what this house voted for over a year ago on the back of Lord Alfred
3:09:25 > 3:09:36dubs' hard work.Thank you, Madam Speaker. Let me start by thanking
3:09:36 > 3:09:41members and honourable members. The debate today marks one year since
3:09:41 > 3:09:47the demolition of the Calais jungle camp. The situation in Calais is a
3:09:47 > 3:09:51significant crisis lasting many years, which raising the camp did
3:09:51 > 3:09:56not solve. The government stands accused this week of standing back
3:09:56 > 3:10:03while the position of unaccompanied minors has deteriorated markedly. In
3:10:03 > 3:10:09the last year, excessive police violence in Calais has intensified.
3:10:09 > 3:10:15Eating is and tear gas have been used against children. The refugee
3:10:15 > 3:10:18rights data protect project found that 94% of young people did not
3:10:18 > 3:10:29feel safe, or did not feel safe at all. A 90-year-old said, there are
3:10:29 > 3:10:34no human rights. -- a 19-year-old. I welcome the opening of the new
3:10:34 > 3:10:39temporary accommodation centre in northern France. What exactly has
3:10:39 > 3:10:45the UK Government's involvement in this been? Will the application
3:10:45 > 3:10:50process in this new centre and more generally be reduced to weeks,
3:10:50 > 3:10:53rather than months or over a year for children who are eligible? And
3:10:53 > 3:11:00will the government provide legal and outreach support to children
3:11:00 > 3:11:04eligible under Dubs and Dublin three in Calais? The Labour Party fully
3:11:04 > 3:11:09understand how difficult the Calais crisis has been over many years, but
3:11:09 > 3:11:12we refuse to accept that the government has so far approached the
3:11:12 > 3:11:18whole issue with humanity and consistency. The clear evidence for
3:11:18 > 3:11:26this was in the ending of the Dubs scheme. The Dubs Amendment was
3:11:26 > 3:11:29tabled by Lord Dubs, who was saved from the hands of the German Nazi
3:11:29 > 3:11:35regime. It was passed with the intention of bringing around 3000
3:11:35 > 3:11:38unaccompanied refugee children to Britain. The government has since
3:11:38 > 3:11:45announced they will halt the scheme after accepting just 480. We, on
3:11:45 > 3:11:50this side of the house, and many on the Minister's open side cannot
3:11:50 > 3:11:55accept this decision. The government has wriggled out of this obligation
3:11:55 > 3:12:02to exit child refugees, shutting the door on the most vulnerable. The
3:12:02 > 3:12:07government said that they said the number of children to be transferred
3:12:07 > 3:12:12under the scheme at 480 following consultation with local authorities.
3:12:12 > 3:12:15However, evidence to the Home Affairs Select Committee casts
3:12:15 > 3:12:19serious doubt on this claim. Local authorities suggested that up to
3:12:19 > 3:12:254000 more places could be made available. We must have more
3:12:25 > 3:12:30transparency on the issue of capacity in local authorities, and
3:12:30 > 3:12:34authorities across the country who might have places must be in courage
3:12:34 > 3:12:39to come forward. We understand, from refugee charities, that a small
3:12:39 > 3:12:42number of admissions may have occurred in the last two weeks, in
3:12:42 > 3:12:46which case the point remains that this is too little, given the size
3:12:46 > 3:12:51of the refugee crisis, and the plight and experience of refugee
3:12:51 > 3:12:56children across Europe. The UN has called for Britain to take 10,000
3:12:56 > 3:13:01refugees per year. The Home Secretary has said a number of times
3:13:01 > 3:13:07that she wants to avoid the Dubs scheme is acting as a Paul factor
3:13:07 > 3:13:13for child migrants, or encouraging people traffickers. -- a pulling
3:13:13 > 3:13:19factor. In fact, the opposite is true. Schemes such as Dubs disrupt
3:13:19 > 3:13:22the activities of people traffickers, rather than encouraging
3:13:22 > 3:13:26them. Where legal routes are limited, where children lose faith
3:13:26 > 3:13:30in systems and trust in officials, they turn to people traffickers, or
3:13:30 > 3:13:36smugglers, who exploit them. Unless the push factors, including
3:13:36 > 3:13:40violence, prosecution and conflict, that drive children to flee their
3:13:40 > 3:13:45homes are resolved, children will continue to flee. Will the Minister
3:13:45 > 3:13:50give assurance that where it is in the best interest of unaccompanied
3:13:50 > 3:13:57children, there will be -- they will be reunited with families in the UK.
3:13:57 > 3:14:00Iraqi refugee Mohammed Hassan died earlier this week hiding in the
3:14:00 > 3:14:03wheel arch of a lorry on a journey from Calais to Oxford, trying to
3:14:03 > 3:14:11reach his uncle. The cardinal highlighted that UK border
3:14:11 > 3:14:14officials, who had detained him only days before, could have given him
3:14:14 > 3:14:21information regarding his rights to family reunion under Dublin three.
3:14:21 > 3:14:24At the point when the Calais Campbell was demolished, one in six
3:14:24 > 3:14:29were children seeking to reach family members. Several of these
3:14:29 > 3:14:33children have now died trying to reach their families. How will the
3:14:33 > 3:14:39government ensure all children eligible for family reunion in
3:14:39 > 3:14:43northern France are able to access safe passage? We must prevent the
3:14:43 > 3:14:46regrowth of the jungle and more tragic cases like that of Mohammed
3:14:46 > 3:14:53Hassan.
3:14:53 > 3:14:56A great deal must be done in the face of the refugee and humanitarian
3:14:56 > 3:14:59crisis across the world. We are leaving the EU but that does not
3:14:59 > 3:15:02mean we should cease to work together to solve this crisis. The
3:15:02 > 3:15:09Labour Party is clear. Brexit must not be used as an excuse to abandon
3:15:09 > 3:15:14our legal and moral obligations to refugees. The government must commit
3:15:14 > 3:15:17to ensuring that Brexit does not lead to any loss of rights for
3:15:17 > 3:15:23refugees. Like the learner to member from South Cambridge and the
3:15:23 > 3:15:29Honourable friend from West Ham, I also want the government to give
3:15:29 > 3:15:32assurance that the Dublin three definition of family will apply in
3:15:32 > 3:15:37the UK's immigration rules post Brexit. When refugee children come
3:15:37 > 3:15:42to the UK, we must ensure that they are treated fairly and that councils
3:15:42 > 3:15:48have adequate resources to provide them with the support they need. As
3:15:48 > 3:15:51the government -- as the government safeguarding strategy mentions,
3:15:51 > 3:15:54there's a real danger of family placements breaking down and
3:15:54 > 3:16:00children up in social care. Poverty amongst refugee families is a major
3:16:00 > 3:16:04reason for breakdowns. This can be resolved with small amounts of cash,
3:16:04 > 3:16:08as we have seen in Scotland, as my honourable friend also mentioned
3:16:08 > 3:16:12earlier on. This is infinitely cheaper than the alternative of
3:16:12 > 3:16:19putting a child into care. Will the Minister guarantee core integration
3:16:19 > 3:16:23needs are covered for these reunited families and will he meet with
3:16:23 > 3:16:27myself, representatives of the Scottish Government and safe
3:16:27 > 3:16:32passage, to review Best practice? In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker,
3:16:32 > 3:16:37Britain has a proud tradition of honouring the spirit of
3:16:37 > 3:16:40international law and moral obligations by taking our fair share
3:16:40 > 3:16:47of refugees and the feeling in this house today has demonstrated we must
3:16:47 > 3:16:52not now turn our backs on unaccompanied children fleeing war
3:16:52 > 3:16:59and terror, who are not too far from here, at the border of France in
3:16:59 > 3:17:07Calais.Minister.Thank you, Madam Debord is bigger and I want to join
3:17:07 > 3:17:09others this afternoon in congratulating my honourable
3:17:09 > 3:17:13members, including the Honourable friend, the member for Cambridge
3:17:13 > 3:17:17South, and the member for Walthamstow for securing a debate on
3:17:17 > 3:17:21such an important issue, as well as all members' very thoughtful
3:17:21 > 3:17:24contributions. I agree with others in the fact that we have heard some
3:17:24 > 3:17:29speeches that have been hugely consensual and there has been a lot
3:17:29 > 3:17:33of agreement on some core issues, particularly around the basic point
3:17:33 > 3:17:36that we all want to do the right thing by children who need our help
3:17:36 > 3:17:41the most. I don't disagree that we will occasionally disagree on how to
3:17:41 > 3:17:44achieve that and I will touch on some other comments that have been
3:17:44 > 3:17:47made this afternoon but I think the core purpose is clear from the
3:17:47 > 3:17:49emotive, passionate and well-informed speeches we have heard
3:17:49 > 3:17:53across the this afternoon. It is also important we get things
3:17:53 > 3:17:57absolutely correct. One of the things I will do as I speak in the
3:17:57 > 3:18:00next few minutes is outlined some of the things that we are doing, some
3:18:00 > 3:18:03of the things we can be doing and actually, some of the things that
3:18:03 > 3:18:08have been said this afternoon which are simply not accurate. We are a
3:18:08 > 3:18:11global leader in responding to the needs of those affected by conflict
3:18:11 > 3:18:15and persecution. As a country, we have a long and proud history of
3:18:15 > 3:18:19offering sanctuary to those most in need of protection. In response to
3:18:19 > 3:18:24the conflict in Syria, we have pledged over £2.46 billion in aid
3:18:24 > 3:18:29and we will resettle 20,000 people in the UK by 2020 under the
3:18:29 > 3:18:35vulnerable persons resettlement scheme. Over 8500 individuals are
3:18:35 > 3:18:39already here, around half of whom are children. We will also resettle
3:18:39 > 3:18:443000 of the most vulnerable children and their family members from the
3:18:44 > 3:18:48Middle East and North Africa region by 2020, under the vulnerable
3:18:48 > 3:18:54children's resettlement scheme. Figures show that in 2016, as the
3:18:54 > 3:18:58country, the UK resettled more refugees from outside Europe than
3:18:58 > 3:19:02any other EU member state and in total, over a third of all
3:19:02 > 3:19:08resettlement to the EU was here in the UK. That is something we as a
3:19:08 > 3:19:12country, across this house and across our local authorities and our
3:19:12 > 3:19:16community and faith groups, should rightly be proud of. Our efforts,
3:19:16 > 3:19:20however, don't end there. In order to reduce suffering along the key
3:19:20 > 3:19:25migration routes, we have also allocated more than £175 million in
3:19:25 > 3:19:28humanitarian assistance to the Mediterranean migration crisis,
3:19:28 > 3:19:32among other direct on the ground work and support that we are giving
3:19:32 > 3:19:36in the region and in those communities. I would also like to be
3:19:36 > 3:19:39very clear about a couple of comments that colleagues have made
3:19:39 > 3:19:43this afternoon, that there is no need for migrants to be returning to
3:19:43 > 3:19:48Calais and the surrounding areas in the hope of travelling illegally and
3:19:48 > 3:19:53dangerously to the UK to claim asylum. France is a safe country.
3:19:53 > 3:19:55Those in need of protection should claim asylum at the earliest
3:19:55 > 3:20:00opportunity. Claiming asylum in France is the fastest route to
3:20:00 > 3:20:04safety for those who need protection. I will give way.Isn't
3:20:04 > 3:20:09this sort of rather the point, that say you are from Syria, once you
3:20:09 > 3:20:17find safety in Turkey or Jordan or Lebanon, however... Wait... However
3:20:17 > 3:20:20crowded and unpleasant it may be, when you then decide to move further
3:20:20 > 3:20:23into Europe, you are making a choice. I would make the same choice
3:20:23 > 3:20:27but at that point, you are a migrant exercising your free will and you
3:20:27 > 3:20:31are quantitatively different, therefore, from the people you've
3:20:31 > 3:20:35just found safety.Well, I think at the heart of the point my honourable
3:20:35 > 3:20:39friend makes is actually the core point that people should be claiming
3:20:39 > 3:20:43asylum in the first safe place they arrived. That is the agreement and
3:20:43 > 3:20:46how the system works. I have to say we do welcome the efforts of our
3:20:46 > 3:20:52French colleagues who in recent weeks have, as the front bench
3:20:52 > 3:20:53opposite have recognised, established additional welcome
3:20:53 > 3:20:57centres to those already in place across the country, four new
3:20:57 > 3:21:01centres, in fact, have recently opened away from the ports, where
3:21:01 > 3:21:05those wishing to claim asylum will be supported through the process.
3:21:05 > 3:21:08There is regular transportation provided to the centres but I want
3:21:08 > 3:21:11to be very clear as well, bearing in mind the questions raised earlier
3:21:11 > 3:21:15this afternoon, that we do work closely with France and other member
3:21:15 > 3:21:21states to deliver the transfer of 480 unaccompanied children from
3:21:21 > 3:21:24Europe to the UK under section 67 of the 2016 immigration act, quite the
3:21:24 > 3:21:27opposite of what some members have said this afternoon about that
3:21:27 > 3:21:33process having stopped. It hasn't, it never has, it is still open. The
3:21:33 > 3:21:36High Court ruling in fact handed down today, as has been referred to
3:21:36 > 3:21:39earlier on, has confirmed the government's approach to
3:21:39 > 3:21:45implementing Section 67 has been lawful. The focus for us in
3:21:45 > 3:21:47government is working together with local authorities and other partners
3:21:47 > 3:21:51to make sure we are transferring eligible children to the UK as
3:21:51 > 3:21:57quickly as possible. I will just finish my point. With their safety
3:21:57 > 3:21:59and best interests at the centre of all our decisions. Happy to give
3:21:59 > 3:22:06way.The minister I think has just said that the Dubs scheme is not
3:22:06 > 3:22:11closed so will he then agree now to contact again local councils across
3:22:11 > 3:22:15the country and to ask them what further places they could provide
3:22:15 > 3:22:20under the Dubs scheme for next year? I will come to the wider point
3:22:20 > 3:22:22around that at the moment but I will say to the Honourable Lady again,
3:22:22 > 3:22:26the court has already said the government's process is lawful,
3:22:26 > 3:22:29children have arrived in recent weeks from France and transfers are
3:22:29 > 3:22:32ongoing. We have worked closely with Greece as well to put in place the
3:22:32 > 3:22:37processes for the safe transfer of eligible children to the UK and we
3:22:37 > 3:22:40expect to receive further referrals in the coming weeks. I would also
3:22:40 > 3:22:44said in a chair of the select committee, when she spoke earlier,
3:22:44 > 3:22:47what she is actually effectively proposing in what she was saying is
3:22:47 > 3:22:51that we just take children from another country. I'm sure members
3:22:51 > 3:22:55must appreciate when they think this through, we said we cannot do that.
3:22:55 > 3:22:59We as a government and the country must respect the sovereignty of
3:22:59 > 3:23:02those countries and their national child protection laws. That is the
3:23:02 > 3:23:08writing today. I'm going to make some progress. Here in the UK, for
3:23:08 > 3:23:12the year ending June 2017, we granted asylum or another form of
3:23:12 > 3:23:18leave to over 9000 children and more than 42,000 children since 2010. We
3:23:18 > 3:23:22are fully committed to ensuring that unaccompanied, asylum seeking
3:23:22 > 3:23:26children and refugee children are safe. And that their welfare is
3:23:26 > 3:23:30promoted once they arrive here in the UK. That is why yesterday, as
3:23:30 > 3:23:34has been outlined, we published a safeguarding strategy for
3:23:34 > 3:23:37unaccompanied asylum seeking and refugee children, in recognition of
3:23:37 > 3:23:41their increased numbers and specific needs. It backs up the point I made
3:23:41 > 3:23:44that we want to make sure we're doing the right thing by the
3:23:44 > 3:23:49children who need our support. Yes. The Minister will remember that in
3:23:49 > 3:23:53my contribution and the contributions of others, we talked
3:23:53 > 3:23:56about children who have family here in the UK, who are desperately
3:23:56 > 3:24:00trying to get to those families. Will he commit today to working with
3:24:00 > 3:24:05me on the two cases are brought to him and on the other cases members
3:24:05 > 3:24:09here and opposite have raised about children who have families here who
3:24:09 > 3:24:13are risking their lives to try to reunite with possibly the only
3:24:13 > 3:24:18family they have left?I would say to the Honourable Lady, who I've
3:24:18 > 3:24:23worked with a great deal over the years, that as she said earlier, I
3:24:23 > 3:24:27do genuinely like and still do and I will actually respond to her
3:24:27 > 3:24:30directly on the particular cases she brought up and I will also touch on
3:24:30 > 3:24:33the wider issue around the reunion point in a moment if she will bear
3:24:33 > 3:24:36with me. The motion here, quite understandably, considers the impact
3:24:36 > 3:24:42of the exit from the EU by the UK, and on the participation that we of
3:24:42 > 3:24:47the country have in the Dublin regulation. I want to reassure the
3:24:47 > 3:24:50entire house that until we exit the EU, of course, as a country, we
3:24:50 > 3:24:55remain bound by the EU asylum legislation where we have opted in,
3:24:55 > 3:24:58including the Dublin three regulation. We are committed to
3:24:58 > 3:25:01ensuring it operates efficiently and effectively and the guidance we
3:25:01 > 3:25:04publish today is a further indication of our commitment in this
3:25:04 > 3:25:08area. But again, I want to be clear and to clarify what can be a
3:25:08 > 3:25:14misunderstanding that is out there. Dublin is not and never has been a
3:25:14 > 3:25:19family reunion route in and of itself. The recent reporting of this
3:25:19 > 3:25:22issue is misinformed and I want to provide a hopefully, some clarity
3:25:22 > 3:25:27here today, confirming the point my friend the member for Colchester
3:25:27 > 3:25:31made in an excellent contribute an earlier today. The Dublin regulation
3:25:31 > 3:25:34is the mechanism to determine the member state responsible for the
3:25:34 > 3:25:38consideration of an asylum claim and is primarily used in respect of
3:25:38 > 3:25:42adults, not children, to make transfers both into and out of the
3:25:42 > 3:25:47UK. In fact, it actually confers no right to remain in the UK once an
3:25:47 > 3:25:52asylum claim has been considered. The right approach to this issue
3:25:52 > 3:25:57must be to negotiate with the EU on future cooperation on asylum and
3:25:57 > 3:26:00migration, considering these issues in the round. We as the government
3:26:00 > 3:26:04have set out a very clear position that cooperation on asylum and
3:26:04 > 3:26:08migration, which we value, is for discussion with the EU. We support
3:26:08 > 3:26:11the underlying principles of the Dublin regulation that asylum
3:26:11 > 3:26:15seekers should claim asylum as my honourable friends have made the
3:26:15 > 3:26:18point earlier today, in the first safe country they reach and they
3:26:18 > 3:26:23should not be allowed to asylum shop. Moreover, Dublin is a two way
3:26:23 > 3:26:27process that requires the cooperation of course of 31 other
3:26:27 > 3:26:31countries to work effectively. It is not appropriate to commit
3:26:31 > 3:26:35unilaterally to the entry to the UK of one cohort of those who are
3:26:35 > 3:26:39currently fully within the scope of Dublin regulations when it requires
3:26:39 > 3:26:42the cooperation of so many other sovereign nations to operate. I want
3:26:42 > 3:26:46to be very clear about the point the Honourable Lady just raised. The
3:26:46 > 3:26:49wider issue of family reunion is hugely important and we've heard
3:26:49 > 3:26:54members across the house rightly talk about that this afternoon. The
3:26:54 > 3:26:57government strongly supports the principle of family unity and we
3:26:57 > 3:27:02have a comprehensive framework in place for refugees to be safely
3:27:02 > 3:27:06re-enacted with their families. In fact, we have reunited over 24,000
3:27:06 > 3:27:09partners and children with their family members already granted
3:27:09 > 3:27:13protection here in the last five years. Our Family Reunion policy
3:27:13 > 3:27:19allows children to join their parents here and there are also
3:27:19 > 3:27:21specific provisions in the immigration laws that allow extended
3:27:21 > 3:27:25family members lawfully resident in the UK to sponsor children where
3:27:25 > 3:27:29they are in the right circumstances and that is aside from the work we
3:27:29 > 3:27:34do through the mandate resettlement scheme. As we leave the EU, we will
3:27:34 > 3:27:39continue to meet our moral duty, to support refugees affected by
3:27:39 > 3:27:42conflict and persecution, including children, and continue our proud
3:27:42 > 3:27:48history as a country of supporting and protecting those in need.
3:27:49 > 3:27:53Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker and thank you to everybody
3:27:53 > 3:27:56who has spoken in today's debate so passionately. I think broadly there
3:27:56 > 3:28:01has been right recognition of what the UK has contributed to the
3:28:01 > 3:28:05migration crisis around the world but I have taken away two
3:28:05 > 3:28:10conclusions. One, we must fulfil our obligations under Dubs and we need
3:28:10 > 3:28:14to fulfil those -- fill as many places as soon as we buzz began
3:28:14 > 3:28:18because we've been reminded today, they are not numbers, they are
3:28:18 > 3:28:21people, they are children and I especially want to thank the member
3:28:21 > 3:28:24for West Ham for reminding us of that because sometimes it is very
3:28:24 > 3:28:27easy for these things to become documents or spreadsheets but these
3:28:27 > 3:28:33are human beings and children and families. Secondly, it is not to let
3:28:33 > 3:28:37Brexit reduce our ability to offer the broadest family reunification we
3:28:37 > 3:28:42can, whether that is Dublin three, domestic legislation, something new,
3:28:42 > 3:28:47a new immigration Bill, we need to make sure we make it as broad as we
3:28:47 > 3:28:50possibly can and I was pleased to hear the minister just then very
3:28:50 > 3:28:54clearly set out his intentions to work towards achieving that and
3:28:54 > 3:28:58whether that is just clarity around our own domestic legislation, that
3:28:58 > 3:29:01is possibly also required. At the end of the day, the migration
3:29:01 > 3:29:06crisis, as many of said, is not going to end any time soon. I fear
3:29:06 > 3:29:11it is the beginning, whether it is for climate change, is something
3:29:11 > 3:29:14that as a global member of the world, we are going to have to face
3:29:14 > 3:29:18and as a wealthy and compassionate society, I think we have a duty to
3:29:18 > 3:29:20lead in that regard so because the crisis is not going away tomorrow,
3:29:20 > 3:29:25nor must our compassion but I thank everybody for continuing to bring
3:29:25 > 3:29:30the plight of these John Terry is of the media and the general public.
3:29:30 > 3:29:38The question is as on the order paper, as many as are of that
3:29:38 > 3:29:44opinion say aye. Of the country, no, the ayes have it. We now come to the
3:29:44 > 3:29:48arranged motion on sexual harassment and violence in schools, Mrs Maria
3:29:48 > 3:29:50Miller to move.
3:29:55 > 3:30:00Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I take the opportunity to thank
3:30:00 > 3:30:04the Backbench Business Committee for their support in holding this debate
3:30:04 > 3:30:08today, for the women and equality select committee, and for the team
3:30:08 > 3:30:13of clerks and special advisers and worked so diligently in support of
3:30:13 > 3:30:18everything we do in making enquiries such as this possible. I am speaking
3:30:18 > 3:30:22in this debate today, alongside the honourable member for Birmingham
3:30:22 > 3:30:26Yardley, who was also a co-member of the committee, and we are delighted
3:30:26 > 3:30:35to have this opportunity to look in more detail at the report which we
3:30:35 > 3:30:38produced well over a year ago. Madam Deputy Speaker, there can never be a
3:30:38 > 3:30:41more timely debate than this one today. Because Parliament may not be
3:30:41 > 3:30:46a typical working place, but we have a clear duty to tackle sexual
3:30:46 > 3:30:51harassment and sexual abuse, to have the right support in place for
3:30:51 > 3:30:56victims to come forward, without fear, to act swiftly on the evidence
3:30:56 > 3:30:59that is presented, and frankly, if Parliament cannot get it right, what
3:30:59 > 3:31:03example are we setting to the rest of the country? There have been a
3:31:03 > 3:31:07wide range of allegations, some with evidence and some without. But the
3:31:07 > 3:31:12country will be watching us and how we handle these allegations, and we
3:31:12 > 3:31:18need to get it right. Blaming the victims or those who speak out is
3:31:18 > 3:31:24never right. Sexual harassment was never acceptable. But with record
3:31:24 > 3:31:28numbers of women in work, record numbers of women in this place,
3:31:28 > 3:31:33although still not enough, it is becoming more possible to have those
3:31:33 > 3:31:37voices effectively heard. And it is right that changes are made quickly,
3:31:37 > 3:31:41to put in place support systems that are currently lacking, and within
3:31:41 > 3:31:45days changes could well have been made. So why on earth do we find it
3:31:45 > 3:31:52so difficult to get the same swift action to protect children in our
3:31:52 > 3:31:58schools, when the evidence is so clear, so strong and so compelling?
3:31:58 > 3:32:04Sexual harassment and abuse is not only a workplace problem. It is not
3:32:04 > 3:32:07just something which people have experienced in work, and the scale
3:32:07 > 3:32:12of the problem in schools and amongst children was set out by the
3:32:12 > 3:32:18committee when over a year ago. Two in three girls under the age of 21
3:32:18 > 3:32:21experiencing sexual harassment according to the girl guiding
3:32:21 > 3:32:25attitudes survey. In evidence sessions colleagues heard about
3:32:25 > 3:32:30children having their breasts grabbed, pinning bras, lifting
3:32:30 > 3:32:35skirts, pinching bottoms, all parts of routine daily life for girls at
3:32:35 > 3:32:41school in this country today. And in 2015, the BBC's Freedom of
3:32:41 > 3:32:49Information Act request to all UK police forces. Found more than 5500
3:32:49 > 3:32:55alleged sex crimes had been reported in UK schools in the previous three
3:32:55 > 3:32:59years. 4000 sexual assaults, 300 rates and at least one in five of
3:32:59 > 3:33:06those being conducted by children on children. The new evidence which has
3:33:06 > 3:33:09been gathered which triggered the desire of this committee to have
3:33:09 > 3:33:22another debate today which to -- was collected by Panorama in October,
3:33:22 > 3:33:2771% increase in peer on peer abuse in the last three years in our
3:33:27 > 3:33:37schools. The police tell us this is just the tip of the iceberg. A 2013
3:33:37 > 3:33:40joint Inspectorate study of young sex offenders found in half of
3:33:40 > 3:33:45cases, there was evidence of previous concerning sexualised
3:33:45 > 3:33:51behaviour that was not identified at the time, that was disbelieved Orman
3:33:51 > 3:34:01advised -- or minimised. This is recognised as doing more harm. The
3:34:01 > 3:34:05evidence would suggest that levels of sexual harassment that we see in
3:34:05 > 3:34:09schools continues through our universities and then continues in
3:34:09 > 3:34:14our workplaces. More than two thirds of the male students report being
3:34:14 > 3:34:19victims of harassment at university, and the most recent data we have an
3:34:19 > 3:34:23sexual harassment in workplaces by BBC radio five through a poll shows
3:34:23 > 3:34:27more than half of women say they experience sexual harassment at work
3:34:27 > 3:34:35or schools. And why am I having to stand here using data from the BBC?
3:34:35 > 3:34:39Using data from Panorama, using Freedom of Information Act requests?
3:34:39 > 3:34:43Why are we not collecting this data routinely say members of Parliament
3:34:43 > 3:34:48can hold the Government to account. Governments of whatever Hughes have
3:34:48 > 3:34:53decided not to collect this data and that needs to stop as well. The
3:34:53 > 3:34:56response we see which when we start to look at this data, which is
3:34:56 > 3:35:00difficult to get hold of, is that three quarters of reports about
3:35:00 > 3:35:04children abusing other children at schools, that are made to the
3:35:04 > 3:35:09police, lead to no further action at all. Children tell us that sexual
3:35:09 > 3:35:15assaults and harassment are written off by some teaching staff as just
3:35:15 > 3:35:17banter, despite safeguarding responsibilities that are already in
3:35:17 > 3:35:24place. Just as sexual harassment and assault are not acceptable in this
3:35:24 > 3:35:28place, they should not be acceptable in our schools, our universities and
3:35:28 > 3:35:33our colleges around the country. This debate today is really to check
3:35:33 > 3:35:36on the progress this government is making, in responding to the select
3:35:36 > 3:35:42committee report which is well over a -year-old now, and in light of new
3:35:42 > 3:35:45evidence from Girlguiding and Panorama, we can see that the
3:35:45 > 3:35:50situation is certainly no better. I also wanted to take this opportunity
3:35:50 > 3:36:00to examine one other aspect which we didn't really touch on a great deal
3:36:00 > 3:36:03in the report, though it was referred to by parents. Because
3:36:03 > 3:36:05sexual harassment is not new in the workplace, and it is certainly not
3:36:05 > 3:36:08new in schools, and I think many honourable members here today would
3:36:08 > 3:36:11recognise that from their own schooldays. What has changed is the
3:36:11 > 3:36:16fact that most children in this country now have tablets and
3:36:16 > 3:36:23smartphones at a very early age indeed. And that extreme pornography
3:36:23 > 3:36:27websites, social media, Digital communications, or all readily
3:36:27 > 3:36:32accessible to anybody with a tablet or a smartphone. We have given our
3:36:32 > 3:36:37children access to the world through that technology. But without the
3:36:37 > 3:36:40rules and regulations that they see in almost every aspect of their
3:36:40 > 3:36:46daily life. We have allowed the exponential growth of the ownership
3:36:46 > 3:36:51of these sorts of devices, without asking any questions at all. And
3:36:51 > 3:36:56perhaps we should not be surprised that Ofcom research shows us that
3:36:56 > 3:37:01somebody who looks for a fact on Google, thinks that only facts on
3:37:01 > 3:37:05Google can be true. They cannot believe that any data run there
3:37:05 > 3:37:08would not be completely accurate, and that is what we are dealing
3:37:08 > 3:37:17with. Half of three-year-olds and 75% of 11-year-olds use a tablet.
3:37:17 > 3:37:20That is Ofcom data, not mine. We could pick on any number of
3:37:20 > 3:37:28different areas of criminal activity that come out of this high level of
3:37:28 > 3:37:31connectivity, and the online peer on peer abuse that results among
3:37:31 > 3:37:36children. We could talk about cyberstalking. We could talk about
3:37:36 > 3:37:40posting of child abuse images, we could talk about sexting, but let's
3:37:40 > 3:37:45stick with one of them. Let's just stick with extreme pornography. The
3:37:45 > 3:37:50fact that we know, two in 315-year-olds have seen online
3:37:50 > 3:37:53pornography. One in four ten-year-olds have seen online
3:37:53 > 3:37:59pornography. For those children we know this is often how they find out
3:37:59 > 3:38:03what a loving relationship looks like. So as well as updating the
3:38:03 > 3:38:07House on the work that has been done in response to the select committee
3:38:07 > 3:38:13report, could the minister, who I know takes an extremely deep
3:38:13 > 3:38:19interest in these matters, and is committed to finding resolutions,
3:38:19 > 3:38:23could she please update us on what measures the Government is taking to
3:38:23 > 3:38:31try and tackle the role of online media in fuelling the sort of sexual
3:38:31 > 3:38:33harassment and sexually abusive behaviour that is becoming so
3:38:33 > 3:38:40prevalent in our schools? What parents have told us, Madam Deputy
3:38:40 > 3:38:44Speaker, is that when it comes to these things, they understand their
3:38:44 > 3:38:47responsibility. Also they understand that when their children are at
3:38:47 > 3:38:53school, they expect them to be kept safe. Parents have contacted the
3:38:53 > 3:38:58committee, and indeed, I have spoken to parents this week, who have
3:38:58 > 3:39:02endeared particularly harrowing difficulties. I will not use their
3:39:02 > 3:39:06names for obvious reasons, I will anonymise their contributions, but I
3:39:06 > 3:39:10feel the House should be aware of the very real damage that this
3:39:10 > 3:39:15sexually abusive behaviour is having on our children today. Mrs X told me
3:39:15 > 3:39:21about the rape of her six-year-old daughter at school by a male
3:39:21 > 3:39:26classmate, that was simply dismissed by teachers as playful activity.
3:39:26 > 3:39:30There was no central recording of these incidents, because of the age
3:39:30 > 3:39:34of the trials, under the age of criminal responsibility. And
3:39:34 > 3:39:40certainly no support for the victim as a result. What Mrs X would like
3:39:40 > 3:39:44to see, that school guidance should specifically be that a child, no
3:39:44 > 3:39:47matter how young, should be protected in the same way we might
3:39:47 > 3:39:56protect an adult that has gone through a sexual rape or assault as
3:39:56 > 3:39:58their daughter has, and that victims should never faced the prospect of
3:39:58 > 3:40:01having to go to school again, with those who have abused or even raped
3:40:01 > 3:40:06them. And this will require the Government to act to ensure that
3:40:06 > 3:40:09primary schools and secondary schools adhere to that when it comes
3:40:09 > 3:40:15to school placements. The second parent that I spoke to, his daughter
3:40:15 > 3:40:19was raped at school as well. He described girls as young as 12
3:40:19 > 3:40:32encouraging each other to sext their peer group, that is sending sexual
3:40:32 > 3:40:39images of themselves which is a criminal assault, and being
3:40:39 > 3:40:43encouraged to have banal sex. They have no idea they are experiencing
3:40:43 > 3:40:48sexual abuse if their first frame of reference is viewing extreme
3:40:48 > 3:40:51pornography and then spanking and being given a dog collar to wear
3:40:51 > 3:41:01around their neck is not out of the norm. Why do schools find this
3:41:01 > 3:41:05difficult to deal with? Some are reporting the crimes, but for some
3:41:05 > 3:41:09primary schools particularly, they are dealing with an area that they
3:41:09 > 3:41:15never have before. Is the law clear? Do teachers understand their
3:41:15 > 3:41:22responsibilities? Sexual harassment is this -- defined in law in the
3:41:22 > 3:41:24equalities act, but how many teachers have been asked to look at
3:41:24 > 3:41:30that because it talks about adults and adult workplaces? In our select
3:41:30 > 3:41:34committee report, we advocated a whole school approach to creating a
3:41:34 > 3:41:41culture of respect and responsibility, that all incidences
3:41:41 > 3:41:46should be reported, recorded and investigated and should be looked at
3:41:46 > 3:41:51in detail by Ofsted. Sex education should could be compulsory for all
3:41:51 > 3:41:53school-age children and there should be guidance given to schools
3:41:53 > 3:41:58immediately. Parents need to be aware of the consequences of putting
3:41:58 > 3:42:03their children online, and we should be considering age restrictions I
3:42:03 > 3:42:08think on tablets and smartphones. It is that long ago that we thought
3:42:08 > 3:42:14smoking did not cause us harm, and now we know lot better. I applaud
3:42:14 > 3:42:20the work the Government is doing to restricting access by underage
3:42:20 > 3:42:23people to pornography sites, and encouraging parental blocks, but we
3:42:23 > 3:42:28all know as fast as they implement their plans, there will be a way
3:42:28 > 3:42:37round them. Unblock in-school advertisers to children a product
3:42:37 > 3:42:42which allows access to blocked sites in school so that has got around
3:42:42 > 3:42:56that problem. Why when it comes to cos they are not -- companies, they
3:42:56 > 3:43:03are not acting? I applaud the Department for Culture, Media and
3:43:03 > 3:43:07Sport for putting forward a Green paper in looking at ways this can be
3:43:07 > 3:43:11improved, but I feel these suggestions are long overdue. We
3:43:11 > 3:43:14need suggestions and we need suggestions to be designed into the
3:43:14 > 3:43:19products which we give our children, not retro fitted as an afterthought.
3:43:19 > 3:43:23What has happened so far? In the response to our report, the
3:43:23 > 3:43:27Government was very positive indeed, and we are pleased that now it is in
3:43:27 > 3:43:32law that children have to be given compulsory relationship and sex
3:43:32 > 3:43:39education. But what has actually changed in our schools? Nothing. To
3:43:39 > 3:43:44revise the guidance, the Government has set up an advisory group. It has
3:43:44 > 3:43:49only met twice. Why is there not more urgency? The Minister has
3:43:49 > 3:43:54confirmed to me in writing since our last session with him, that is the
3:43:54 > 3:44:00honourable member for Bognor Regis, has confirmed that 124 schools have
3:44:00 > 3:44:04been judged as ineffective in terms of safeguarding measures and are
3:44:04 > 3:44:08therefore inadequate. We still do not know how many of those schools
3:44:08 > 3:44:12are rated so poorly because of the way they deal with sexual
3:44:12 > 3:44:15harassment. Sex and relationship education is now compulsory in law,
3:44:15 > 3:44:23but we are told that even when this is issued, it will take a full
3:44:23 > 3:44:28academic year to come into force. So why can we act here in a matter of
3:44:28 > 3:44:33days, but it takes a full year to put safeguards in place for our
3:44:33 > 3:44:38children? I think the House needs to know how many legal cases the
3:44:38 > 3:44:41Department for Education is currently dealing with, that relate
3:44:41 > 3:44:45to children who have been sexually harassed or abused or worse while
3:44:45 > 3:44:49still at school. One year on, very little has changed for children in
3:44:49 > 3:44:53our schools, other than perhaps feeling now they may be more
3:44:53 > 3:44:59confident about speaking out and not being ridiculed. Schools already
3:44:59 > 3:45:05have clear responsibilities to keep our children safe, but those 7866
3:45:05 > 3:45:11reported cases of abuse in 2016 suggest that the current ways that
3:45:11 > 3:45:16schools are handling this problem does not work.
3:45:16 > 3:45:20If we can change things here in a matter of days why can't we do the
3:45:20 > 3:45:23same for children? If we tackle the behaviour of sexual abuse and
3:45:23 > 3:45:28harassment early on, if we teach children about hate -- healthy
3:45:28 > 3:45:31relationships and respect, if we properly regulate social media and
3:45:31 > 3:45:34digital communications, we may be able to start to tackle the root
3:45:34 > 3:45:37causesof the sort of sexual harassment we see so prevalent in
3:45:37 > 3:45:42wider society today? I look forward to the Minister's response to this
3:45:42 > 3:45:50debate today.The question is as on the order paper. I'm sure colleagues
3:45:50 > 3:45:55can see there are a number of colleagues trying to get in so I'm
3:45:55 > 3:46:03going to start by imposing a time limit of six minutes. Guest edits.
3:46:03 > 3:46:06Thank you very much Madam Debord is bigger and it is an honour to follow
3:46:06 > 3:46:12and work with my Honourable friend, the member for Basingstoke. She has
3:46:12 > 3:46:18outlined exactly where the problems exist, exactly what we have found on
3:46:18 > 3:46:22the committee, and where we still have so much progress to make. I
3:46:22 > 3:46:32have been working in this field, this area. I have delivered sex and
3:46:32 > 3:46:37relationship education in schools for many years. I have written
3:46:37 > 3:46:42programmes for the Home Office in the past. I have dealt with
3:46:42 > 3:46:48hundreds, if not thousands of cases of rape and sexual violence for both
3:46:48 > 3:46:55adult and children in my career and as the member before me has
3:46:55 > 3:47:00outlined, the cases are horrendous. The cases where children are
3:47:00 > 3:47:08involved her even more. I am a resilient human being in this area.
3:47:08 > 3:47:15I have been trained. I know what I'm talking about. This week, in this
3:47:15 > 3:47:21place, I find my resilience at a low ebb. I find it at its lowest ebb,
3:47:21 > 3:47:30because I feel like nothing is changing and I feel as if all of the
3:47:30 > 3:47:34things that we heard on the committee about the need for boys
3:47:34 > 3:47:41and men to be included completely in the SRE programmes, about gendered
3:47:41 > 3:47:45attitudes, about who we can trust, who we can't trust, about processes
3:47:45 > 3:47:53that should exist in schools, that simply don't seem to, is every
3:47:53 > 3:47:59single reason why what is happening here in these last few weeks
3:47:59 > 3:48:04happens. We have an opportunity to change this and I have to keep
3:48:04 > 3:48:06believing that we have an opportunity to change the culture of
3:48:06 > 3:48:12our schools, of our Parliament, of our industries, because it feels a
3:48:12 > 3:48:18little bit like I should give up having this same conversation after
3:48:18 > 3:48:25this week. I will rally, don't worry. But the fact of the matter is
3:48:25 > 3:48:29that every single argument that has been applied about this place, we
3:48:29 > 3:48:32could apply to our schools at the moment. There is not a clear process
3:48:32 > 3:48:39in place for the very harrowing pier on peer abuse that we have heard
3:48:39 > 3:48:46about which should be called child abuse. That is what it is. On the
3:48:46 > 3:48:50committee, we heard cases and heard from parents whose children had been
3:48:50 > 3:48:56left in the same classroom as the perpetrator and the complaint that
3:48:56 > 3:49:00we have is not just how harrowing that is, but the fact that there is
3:49:00 > 3:49:06no guidance on this. There is no process to know what to do with this
3:49:06 > 3:49:11and what is so galling about that, and again, what has been so galling
3:49:11 > 3:49:17about some of the situations in this place this week, is that if it were
3:49:17 > 3:49:24a teacher doing it to a child, there is a process. If it were a teacher
3:49:24 > 3:49:32who had committed or at least, you know, been accused of committing
3:49:32 > 3:49:36some of these crimes, there would be a clear process to follow and again,
3:49:36 > 3:49:42I find a parallel to hear painful in that there is no process or
3:49:42 > 3:49:47threshold for this place and the people who work here. I've been told
3:49:47 > 3:49:50because people have to get in that are not to take in dimensions so I'm
3:49:50 > 3:49:57very sorry about that. I urge the Minister in front of us today, who I
3:49:57 > 3:50:02know deeply cares, both about the culture here and the culture in our
3:50:02 > 3:50:10schools, that the time that is proposed to get SRE right, this is
3:50:10 > 3:50:14not something that is new, this is existing in schools, it is just
3:50:14 > 3:50:19patchy, it does not need to take the time. I further urge that the
3:50:19 > 3:50:24advisory group on sexual violence and sexual harassment, that the
3:50:24 > 3:50:30government have got on board to help with this, just like we have made
3:50:30 > 3:50:33complaints about, here, does not have any sexual violence academics
3:50:33 > 3:50:38or front line specialists in sexual violence organisations working on it
3:50:38 > 3:50:44and I fear that means we are missing some of the very, very vital
3:50:44 > 3:50:47information that will be needed to get this right in the future, to
3:50:47 > 3:50:54make sure that we are not prejudiced and we don't treat any of this like
3:50:54 > 3:50:59banter, like something that is just part of a culture that we have to
3:50:59 > 3:51:05accept. The time that it has taken was unfortunately interrupted by the
3:51:05 > 3:51:10election. We are going to have to talk that up to experience. But I
3:51:10 > 3:51:15can't bear that in a year's time, we may have the same debate and still,
3:51:15 > 3:51:20no process will have changed in school, no SRE will be being
3:51:20 > 3:51:24delivered compulsorily, no specialist agencies will have been
3:51:24 > 3:51:32lined up to swoop in when schools, rightly, need help. They are not
3:51:32 > 3:51:34specialists, just like we are not specialists in this building, well,
3:51:34 > 3:51:44not all of us. And I cannot bear to be back here next year, so I leave
3:51:44 > 3:51:52that with the Minister, that we have two act.John Mann.Madam Deputy
3:51:52 > 3:51:56Speaker, can I praise the work of both the Honourable member for
3:51:56 > 3:52:00Basingstoke and the member for Birmingham Yardley, and as I have
3:52:00 > 3:52:04listen to what they have said, not just now but over a period of quite
3:52:04 > 3:52:08some time, I am learning a lot of important things and I think the
3:52:08 > 3:52:13issue raised here today is without question the highest issue on the
3:52:13 > 3:52:18agenda of the country in terms of its future and I think there is so
3:52:18 > 3:52:26much ignorance about the scale of the problem and I think the problem
3:52:26 > 3:52:31has worsened. I don't think the problem has worsened because of the
3:52:31 > 3:52:35ability through social media, both to be exposed the things that people
3:52:35 > 3:52:39were not exposed to in the same way. -- I think the problem has worsened.
3:52:39 > 3:52:43It is the volume of exposure but also the media for communicating and
3:52:43 > 3:52:56on this issue, which is an epidemic in schools, of abusive sexual
3:52:56 > 3:53:00photographs of girls at school, being circulated routinely done
3:53:00 > 3:53:07daily, around schools, not just do the schools have no idea what to do
3:53:07 > 3:53:10about it, do schools and teachers have no training, does Ofsted have
3:53:10 > 3:53:16no criteria for dealing with it, but I have to say, the law in terms of,
3:53:16 > 3:53:21even with all that in place, the law in relation to the social media
3:53:21 > 3:53:25companies in this country has to have a fundamental change and there
3:53:25 > 3:53:32has to be, there has to be a removal of their exemption from publishers
3:53:32 > 3:53:37liability because that then allows, if their systems have been breached,
3:53:37 > 3:53:41it allows people to take legal action organisations to take legal
3:53:41 > 3:53:47action against them, precisely as we can do in the print media, and that
3:53:47 > 3:53:51change, that exemption which came from the US, the beginning of the
3:53:51 > 3:53:54Internet industry, is quite fundamental to the ability to do
3:53:54 > 3:54:01something about social media because innocents, we are powerless about
3:54:01 > 3:54:04that -- in essence, we are powerless about that across the world and in
3:54:04 > 3:54:12this country. The systems of reporting, I won't repeat it, it is
3:54:12 > 3:54:15absolutely my experience from the previous two speakers that the
3:54:15 > 3:54:19systems of reporting, the confusion over systems, the lack of clarity,
3:54:19 > 3:54:23the lack of confidence in the system, it is a critical lack of
3:54:23 > 3:54:27training of the key professionals, is fundamental and some schools will
3:54:27 > 3:54:34have got it as good exam class. The vast majority are pretty clueless
3:54:34 > 3:54:42and it means that significant sexual offences, be it those routine once,
3:54:42 > 3:54:47daily, or ones that are life transforming, life wrecking in terms
3:54:47 > 3:54:51of the girls who have been attacked, simply remain there, possibly not
3:54:51 > 3:54:58even recorded nor even recorded and can't be passed, you know, from an
3:54:58 > 3:55:02headteacher to another, to a governing body. None of them knowing
3:55:02 > 3:55:06because there is no system in place. You know, even when there is meant
3:55:06 > 3:55:11to be good practice in higher education, with the consent training
3:55:11 > 3:55:17in universities, consents training and understanding of that, for men
3:55:17 > 3:55:21and boys, but also for girls and women, is quite profoundly needed.
3:55:21 > 3:55:27But it is not compulsory in the universities. There is no register
3:55:27 > 3:55:32kept. People choose not to go and guess which people choose not to go?
3:55:32 > 3:55:38That, though, and making it compulsory, including in schools,
3:55:38 > 3:55:44and at 16-18, again, the fact it would have to be compulsory will
3:55:44 > 3:55:49mean that the debate and dialogue over how it is done, how best it is
3:55:49 > 3:55:52done, and exemplars of best practice, will be far easier to
3:55:52 > 3:55:56spread and I think that would have a huge impact and I think we should
3:55:56 > 3:56:03have, here, that training, we men in here should have that training as
3:56:03 > 3:56:07well. I think that should be compulsory as a requirement of
3:56:07 > 3:56:13sitting as a member of Parliament. And finally, and the Minister has
3:56:13 > 3:56:18been very helpful and active on this, there are some aspects even at
3:56:18 > 3:56:2216-18 where even some of the basic stuff that people are saying, well,
3:56:22 > 3:56:26that's their and the rest isn't, actually, when it comes to sports
3:56:26 > 3:56:30academies at 16-18, there's nothing in place, not even the legal
3:56:30 > 3:56:34safeguarding requirements. There is literally nothing in place, from my
3:56:34 > 3:56:40experience. I get very depressed at the numbers of, usually women, who
3:56:40 > 3:56:43come and I find out what happened to them at school where their parents
3:56:43 > 3:56:50don't know, where their parents have no idea whatsoever. They are not
3:56:50 > 3:56:54going to be reporting this to the police, the fact that they have been
3:56:54 > 3:57:01raped. The volume of it is so incredibly profound that we have an
3:57:01 > 3:57:07epidemic in this country. And if we don't act of it, we are responsible
3:57:07 > 3:57:11and we have that power, and therefore, all of us, the whole of
3:57:11 > 3:57:14Parliament should be in here, I very much encouraged those who have taken
3:57:14 > 3:57:18the lead to keep taking the lead and to kicked the rest of us into
3:57:18 > 3:57:25action.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and I would like to
3:57:25 > 3:57:29congratulate my right honourable friend for the work she has done
3:57:29 > 3:57:32bringing this debate forward today, the member for Basingstoke and the
3:57:32 > 3:57:38member for Birmingham Yardley on securing this important debate. And
3:57:38 > 3:57:42thank all the members of the women and equality is select committee for
3:57:42 > 3:57:49the wide-ranging work that they are undertaking, the cross-party spirit
3:57:49 > 3:57:53which it has been undertaken in and I can say sincerely I miss being on
3:57:53 > 3:57:56that committee because you are bringing so much good work to this
3:57:56 > 3:58:00house and whenever I talk to people in my constituency about the work
3:58:00 > 3:58:05that really matters to me as being in MP, I always go back to my time
3:58:05 > 3:58:09on that committee as being the most positive time. All of us in this
3:58:09 > 3:58:14house understand the importance of ensuring that our schools and in
3:58:14 > 3:58:17fact our educational establishments as a whole are safe as an
3:58:17 > 3:58:25environment for students to learn and to thrive. I absolutely am
3:58:25 > 3:58:29shocked, still, when we go back to listening to the evidence from the
3:58:29 > 3:58:32young children on the select committee about the pressure and the
3:58:32 > 3:58:40issues that they live with. It still shocks me. I learned so much as a
3:58:40 > 3:58:44parent, and I thought I knew so much, until I heard from those
3:58:44 > 3:58:49youngsters. So I begged members from the committee for the work they are
3:58:49 > 3:58:54doing and also to the Minister -- I thank members. I know the Minister
3:58:54 > 3:58:59is very committed to her work in this field and I can think of no one
3:58:59 > 3:59:05else better place to start to move this forward because I think this is
3:59:05 > 3:59:10really what this debate today is about. And I'm sorry, I'm so sorry
3:59:10 > 3:59:14about the spirit that this debate comes to this house in what been
3:59:14 > 3:59:19raging around us, absolutely, we need training courses, we need to
3:59:19 > 3:59:25learn and work together and this morning, I sponsored the women's
3:59:25 > 3:59:29business Council, four years on reception, celebrating some really
3:59:29 > 3:59:33positive moves forward in parliament and actually, it was really tough to
3:59:33 > 3:59:36try and espouse the good work that we are doing around the environment
3:59:36 > 3:59:43that we have, with this behind us to deal with. We can do better in every
3:59:43 > 3:59:44sphere.
3:59:50 > 3:59:56Also as we head into next year, the celebration of 100 years of women's
3:59:56 > 4:00:00suffrage, we have a real opportunity to make some positive news as a
4:00:00 > 4:00:05result of this. So for me, this is the start of every large journey. I
4:00:05 > 4:00:10agree with my honourable friend about the importance of
4:00:10 > 4:00:13relationship, sex and online education. During my work on the
4:00:13 > 4:00:17Digital economy Bill, I was absolutely staggered by the amount
4:00:17 > 4:00:21of pornography and what was simply at the touch of a button, are
4:00:21 > 4:00:29youngsters were able to get hold of. From nudes to sexting to Snapchat,
4:00:29 > 4:00:40what is out there?
4:00:46 > 4:00:48I generally think most parents or school establishments understand it.
4:00:48 > 4:00:50Why does this matter? Put it into the background that the committee
4:00:50 > 4:00:53heard that 5500 sexual offences were recorded in UK schools in a
4:00:53 > 4:00:55three-year period. In that background we have got what we heard
4:00:55 > 4:00:59described today as an epidemic. But there is some good work. Girlguiding
4:00:59 > 4:01:04UK are doing important work in the area, in terms of making sure that
4:01:04 > 4:01:08our young girls understand what sexual harassment is, and making
4:01:08 > 4:01:13sure they know how to deal with it, so there is hope. I also think
4:01:13 > 4:01:17universities UK are doing great work as well, understanding that these
4:01:17 > 4:01:23learnt behaviour is, as you end up a university student needs to be dealt
4:01:23 > 4:01:28with. 68% of female students said they had been a victim of one or
4:01:28 > 4:01:34more of all types of sexual harassment on campus, as part of an
4:01:34 > 4:01:38investigation be carried out. This is learned behaviour is that we're
4:01:38 > 4:01:42learning from school online, and frankly, parents don't necessarily
4:01:42 > 4:01:46know and understand about. So these figures are deeply concerning, and
4:01:46 > 4:01:49I'm very pleased that the Department for Education is committed to be
4:01:49 > 4:01:57working with the women and qualities and of course the Government
4:01:57 > 4:02:00equalities committee, because I was with them earlier. It is so
4:02:00 > 4:02:03important that we build on healthy relationships, and that we keep our
4:02:03 > 4:02:08kids safe in school. The primary school issue is really important. I
4:02:08 > 4:02:12spoke in preparation for this debate with one of my local senior schools,
4:02:12 > 4:02:15and I was pleased to hear that they did not feel that sexual abuse was a
4:02:15 > 4:02:19real concern within their school, however, what the leaders did say,
4:02:19 > 4:02:24they feel that they have got the strong safeguarding procedures in
4:02:24 > 4:02:35place, but the culture is coming from elsewhere. It is coming into
4:02:35 > 4:02:38school, and this is where parents can bury much work to change that
4:02:38 > 4:02:40behaviour and what is acceptable. But also, parents need to be in a
4:02:40 > 4:02:43position to know and understand what is out there. I welcome the
4:02:43 > 4:02:47committee's suggestions, the work with Ofsted, the work with
4:02:47 > 4:02:50independent schools, but social media companies need to come to the
4:02:50 > 4:02:55table. Parents need to come to the table, and we need as a government
4:02:55 > 4:02:58to get on with it. A year down the line this epidemic is growing. I
4:02:58 > 4:03:02would like to finish once again, to thank the committee for all the work
4:03:02 > 4:03:06they are doing, and this is providing the Minister and this
4:03:06 > 4:03:11government plenty to think about, but more importantly, plenty to act
4:03:11 > 4:03:16on. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy
4:03:16 > 4:03:19Speaker. The scale and frequency of which girls are sexually harassed in
4:03:19 > 4:03:26our schools is a disgrace that I am not that surprised. That so many
4:03:26 > 4:03:31girls trying to learn and thrive do so in a climate of fear and in
4:03:31 > 4:03:39immigration is an example of the endemic sexism in our society. The
4:03:39 > 4:03:42select committee reporting that schools is not surprising because
4:03:42 > 4:03:50the culture has created which allows abuse to drive exists everywhere.
4:03:50 > 4:03:56Why is it that cases can exist in an institution like this or in schools,
4:03:56 > 4:03:59because sexual harassment and violence against women and girls
4:03:59 > 4:04:05does not happen in a vacuum. When women and male allies call out
4:04:05 > 4:04:08sexist language or jokes when challenged the age-old but
4:04:08 > 4:04:13stereotypical notions of what it is to be a manner a woman today, when
4:04:13 > 4:04:16challenging the tired and rigid gender norms and expectations,
4:04:16 > 4:04:22because we know they are social constructs rather than a fabric of
4:04:22 > 4:04:24our DNA, it is not because we want to deliberately destabilise society
4:04:24 > 4:04:28as we know it, but because we know everything counts. Sexual violence
4:04:28 > 4:04:33is not worried starts, but is a product of everything that has gone
4:04:33 > 4:04:38before. Every single thing counts, our thoughts, words and behaviour.
4:04:38 > 4:04:42And if we are to challenge sexual harassment in schools or this place,
4:04:42 > 4:04:46we must start by acknowledging that continue, and making it clear that
4:04:46 > 4:04:52behaviour actually happened and it matters. Liz Kelly and Joe Radford
4:04:52 > 4:04:57in their excellent paper called nothing really happened, show how
4:04:57 > 4:05:00women's experience of sexual violence are invalidated. As women
4:05:00 > 4:05:04and girls versus the mud and encouraged to minimise the violence
4:05:04 > 4:05:16we experience from men. All of those girls in schools who have been
4:05:16 > 4:05:21called a flag or had their bra strap on Dunn, who have been tripped up or
4:05:21 > 4:05:26gripped, had their bodies shamed by text messages or worse, that
4:05:26 > 4:05:33something did happen to you, your experiences are counted. The
4:05:33 > 4:05:37pressure on girls to look perfect, the Instagram and YouTube
4:05:37 > 4:05:44generations which often presents humans as an altered but we know
4:05:44 > 4:05:49that women are airbrushed in a synthetic version of what it should
4:05:49 > 4:05:54be to be beautiful. The pressure to have big lips, big breasts, beat
4:05:54 > 4:06:00them, be perfect, it has not always been like this. I know a lot of
4:06:00 > 4:06:03young people can see through this YouTube fiction but nevertheless it
4:06:03 > 4:06:08seeps into a young person's consciousness. And the expectations
4:06:08 > 4:06:11of young boys and girls about what it is to be beautiful in this world.
4:06:11 > 4:06:16I want to focus on one aspect of the recommendation and that is reporting
4:06:16 > 4:06:23and recording. I agree with many if not all of the findings. Those on
4:06:23 > 4:06:26sex education, which talks about understanding pornography and
4:06:26 > 4:06:32consent but I would argue that the issue of recognising and reporting
4:06:32 > 4:06:36sexual harassment, as well sexist incidents is key. I worked
4:06:36 > 4:06:40extensively with schools to encourage them to record and report
4:06:40 > 4:06:43racist incidents in my previous job, acknowledge that something being
4:06:43 > 4:06:47written down helps you derive the patterns, the prevalence, the action
4:06:47 > 4:06:52you will take and it will give you a whole school analysis of the
4:06:52 > 4:06:58problem. Reporting sexual harassment and incidence is vital as it is to
4:06:58 > 4:07:03racism. There was, however, quite strong reluctance to report racist
4:07:03 > 4:07:07incidents, because it was perceived that those things at the start of
4:07:07 > 4:07:12the continuum were not valid enough, that racist terminology name-calling
4:07:12 > 4:07:15was minimised, not least because teachers did not understand why they
4:07:15 > 4:07:18should be counteracting that language or why the language was
4:07:18 > 4:07:23inappropriate or how to explain that to young people. But they were
4:07:23 > 4:07:30heavily burdened with other tasks, lesson plans, behaviour management,
4:07:30 > 4:07:33exams and pupil progress and of course teaching. It was seen as
4:07:33 > 4:07:38another daunting task. It should not be seen like that but it was. There
4:07:38 > 4:07:42was also fear that high levels would make it look like there was a
4:07:42 > 4:07:46problem with that school. I would argue if we are really to have an
4:07:46 > 4:07:49education system which is to act on all of the forms of oppression that
4:07:49 > 4:07:53young people face, we must give teachers the time and space to be
4:07:53 > 4:07:57trained to know how to recognise sexist behaviour is, how to
4:07:57 > 4:08:00challenge them, but we as an institution, and Ofsted as an
4:08:00 > 4:08:04institution values that they are doing that and it's a space to do
4:08:04 > 4:08:17that. We cannot keep piling work on top of
4:08:18 > 4:08:21teachers and that is there is a whole generation of young people who
4:08:21 > 4:08:25are questioning and resisting the sexist templated society currently
4:08:25 > 4:08:30at aspires to. Young women are fighting back. They are not
4:08:30 > 4:08:33accepting that they are being silenced or called to Robert
4:08:33 > 4:08:38renames. I think teachers do care about challenging this but feel and
4:08:38 > 4:08:42acquit or unsupported -- called derogative tree names. There are
4:08:42 > 4:08:48many young people define society's expectations of them. I imagine all
4:08:48 > 4:08:58they want is for us to catch up. Stella Creasy.Thank you, Madam
4:08:58 > 4:09:03Deputy Speaker. I want to thank the member for Basingstoke and Yardley
4:09:03 > 4:09:07for getting this debate today. I want to add my voice to the urgency
4:09:07 > 4:09:12of getting the Minister to make this happen. We are possibly going to be
4:09:12 > 4:09:18in the invidious position wherein a year's time MPs could have more
4:09:18 > 4:09:21protection, more guidance and processes than the young people in
4:09:21 > 4:09:30our schools. But arise also -- I rise as an in between a feminist.
4:09:30 > 4:09:34I'm between the generation who first got involved in political
4:09:34 > 4:09:38campaigning around equality and those who now have to deal with the
4:09:38 > 4:09:41consequences of the Internet. And I see the impact on our society. I see
4:09:41 > 4:09:45the point that the member for Basingstoke has made. But as an in
4:09:45 > 4:09:49between a feminist I know what is coming next. Let us be blunt about
4:09:49 > 4:09:52what has happened in the last couple of weeks in our society, not just
4:09:52 > 4:10:03here in the UK but around the world. There has been a wake-up call, we
4:10:03 > 4:10:06have all said me to. But we know the backlash will come. The pressure
4:10:06 > 4:10:08back, it was just a misunderstanding, minimising,
4:10:08 > 4:10:13telling women they did not really experience the thing they know they
4:10:13 > 4:10:19experienced. If one thing as a minister comes out in this time as a
4:10:19 > 4:10:23positive move, let it be this. Let us make sure that the next
4:10:23 > 4:10:29generation will not be the same as our generation, finding ways for
4:10:29 > 4:10:32women to cope with this, rather than changing the types of behaviour we
4:10:32 > 4:10:37are seeing. Because that backlash will come. This is about power. The
4:10:37 > 4:10:42power to control what young women's word is. And young men as well. And
4:10:42 > 4:10:47what we have to do is change that culture. And yes, we need
4:10:47 > 4:10:51legislation, yes, we need training. Yes, I see it in my constituency as
4:10:51 > 4:10:57well. Just in recent weeks dealing with a mum who came to me because
4:10:57 > 4:11:02her daughter was assaulted on a school trip by one of her peers. Her
4:11:02 > 4:11:06peer did not deny it. The school did not inform the parents. The
4:11:06 > 4:11:13perpetrator was excluded for a day and then let back into the school.
4:11:13 > 4:11:16Our schools are crying out for help to get this right. Our governing
4:11:16 > 4:11:20bodies are crying out for help to get this right. Why do we expect
4:11:20 > 4:11:22them like we expect our member 's parliament to be any different from
4:11:22 > 4:11:27the rest of our equal society in not understanding with how to deal with
4:11:27 > 4:11:33the power used to abuse, to harass? I want to put on record my personal
4:11:33 > 4:11:38gratitude for the member for Basingstoke because it is not about
4:11:38 > 4:11:42our schools. It is about our universities. It is about making
4:11:42 > 4:11:46sure every young person can learn free from fear, and it is not just
4:11:46 > 4:11:49about the impact of the Internet. These kind of behaviours have been
4:11:49 > 4:11:55going on for generations. But we had an opportunity. The Minister will
4:11:55 > 4:11:59know in the children and social work Bill, we put forward the need to
4:11:59 > 4:12:04make sure we updated the guidance specifically if reports of sexual
4:12:04 > 4:12:07harassment and abuse were brought forward. We were promised by her
4:12:07 > 4:12:12then predecessor that it was happening imminently. I understand
4:12:12 > 4:12:16as the member for Yardley pointed out, the general election but in the
4:12:16 > 4:12:20way, but it is out of the way now. It is not just that we need the
4:12:20 > 4:12:24sexual education consultation to happen, we need that guidance, and
4:12:24 > 4:12:28we need them both now. This is happening in our schools, in our
4:12:28 > 4:12:33colleges, in our universities, as it is happening in our society now. We
4:12:33 > 4:12:37can do something about it. If the Minister wants to fast track
4:12:37 > 4:12:41legislation that is needed through a statutory committee, I will
4:12:41 > 4:12:49personally volunteered to be on that committee to back her. If she needs
4:12:49 > 4:12:52help to take on those people who say it is complicated, I will be there
4:12:52 > 4:12:56with her. But I do not like -- but I do not want to be like the member
4:12:56 > 4:12:59for Yardley here in a year's time, listening to people telling us there
4:12:59 > 4:13:04is more paperwork and that it is a consecrated issue. In our hearts, we
4:13:04 > 4:13:08know that it is not. We know our young men are picking up ideas that
4:13:08 > 4:13:13are not the future we want for them. We know our young women are living
4:13:13 > 4:13:18in fear, are finding the ways to avoid the hands, to avoid the
4:13:18 > 4:13:23catcalls, soaking in that YouTube culture. And we know we are seeing
4:13:23 > 4:13:27it in our society as well. Right now this place is not full of role
4:13:27 > 4:13:32models. Right now, we're not role models if we don't act, because we
4:13:32 > 4:13:36can see this happening. We know what we can do about it, we know there
4:13:36 > 4:13:39are experts out there. We know our teachers are crying out for support
4:13:39 > 4:13:44about how to deal with it. There is no reason to delay, not even a few
4:13:44 > 4:13:55weeks or a day. We can all do something about it. I congratulate
4:13:55 > 4:13:57the cat macro women and Equalities committee. Long may you keep raising
4:13:57 > 4:14:00this, but frankly, I wish you did not have to keep raising this
4:14:00 > 4:14:03because I do not know how long it will take before we recognise it is
4:14:03 > 4:14:06damaging everyone in our society if we fail to act.
4:14:06 > 4:14:12I would like to start by thanking the House for debating this
4:14:12 > 4:14:15extraordinarily important issue. I have been a secondary school teacher
4:14:15 > 4:14:21all my adult life and the changes we are seeing in day-to-day reactions
4:14:21 > 4:14:27in young people has caused me deep concern, especially the rise on
4:14:27 > 4:14:32online bullying linked to the harrowing subject we are discussing
4:14:32 > 4:14:36today. The statistics in this excellent report are awful reading
4:14:36 > 4:14:42but it is terrifying to think this is just the tip of the iceberg. I
4:14:42 > 4:14:46completely agree with the sensible recommendations on improving child
4:14:46 > 4:14:49safeguarding, which includes rewriting the Government guidance,
4:14:49 > 4:14:54and allow Ofsted to inspect how well schools are dealing with sexual
4:14:54 > 4:14:58harassment. These measures are necessary to protect children from
4:14:58 > 4:15:03abuse, but they just don't address how to prevent people from being
4:15:03 > 4:15:08abusive in the first place, and so I specially endorse the report's
4:15:08 > 4:15:13recommendation that all children must be given personal, health and
4:15:13 > 4:15:18social education which includes sex and relationships. I used to pride
4:15:18 > 4:15:22myself on being an accessible teacher. Don't smile before
4:15:22 > 4:15:26Christmas did not last even an hour for me on the first day of school. I
4:15:26 > 4:15:29would welcome the groups of teenagers hanging out in my
4:15:29 > 4:15:33classroom, chatting while doing homework and very often asking for
4:15:33 > 4:15:37help with their very personal problems. But I always called out
4:15:37 > 4:15:42inappropriate banter and taught both sex education in my role as a
4:15:42 > 4:15:46science teacher and pH FC as of year. With the 13 and 14-year-olds
4:15:46 > 4:15:56in the
4:16:01 > 4:16:03school I worked in, my favourite age-group, I should add, we used to
4:16:03 > 4:16:06ask them to put anonymous questions hat and draw them out over a course
4:16:06 > 4:16:09of weeks to talk about them. I can tell you their questions were
4:16:09 > 4:16:11extraordinary at exposing how wide-ranging their views of the
4:16:11 > 4:16:13world are at that age. I used to find myself shocked at both what
4:16:13 > 4:16:16they knew, which has been alluded to before, the sort of pornography and
4:16:16 > 4:16:18destructive relationships that they thought were normal, but also what
4:16:18 > 4:16:22they didn't know. Most harrowing was the fact that so many of them did
4:16:22 > 4:16:27not know when it was okayed to say no. The conversations I have had
4:16:27 > 4:16:37with younger girls especially did Centre on relationships but also
4:16:37 > 4:16:46sex. We talked about sex -- consent and mutual respect and never to
4:16:46 > 4:16:50assume that someone else is thinking what they are. Many reported that it
4:16:50 > 4:16:57was really hard to talk about their parents -- talk to their parents
4:16:57 > 4:17:00about these things. We created a safe space where they felt it was
4:17:00 > 4:17:06safe to talk about what they wanted to hear about. But I am sorry to
4:17:06 > 4:17:10say, not all schools are able to do this and I recognise how lucky I
4:17:10 > 4:17:17have been to work in schools which do. The fact is that sex education
4:17:17 > 4:17:21in England is currently unfit for purpose. It is part of the National
4:17:21 > 4:17:25Curriculum, but the academies and free schools programme mean 70% of
4:17:25 > 4:17:30schools do not have to teach it. Government guidelines have not been
4:17:30 > 4:17:33updated since 2000 and are unfit to the digital age failing to address
4:17:33 > 4:17:40issues like online pornography, LGBT plus relationships and the
4:17:40 > 4:17:48importance of consent. That is not that schools do not see the value of
4:17:48 > 4:17:53PHSE, but funding pressures mean teachers have less and less time to
4:17:53 > 4:18:02do those informal pastoral conversations. And not all teachers
4:18:02 > 4:18:07are comfortable leading PHSE and the right training is critical. But the
4:18:07 > 4:18:12fact is, the picture is far too much of a patchwork and not at all
4:18:12 > 4:18:16resourced enough. The academies programme means parents have no
4:18:16 > 4:18:20minimum guarantees about what their child will be taught, and that is
4:18:20 > 4:18:24why I have been campaigning for a minimum curriculum entitlement,
4:18:24 > 4:18:28slimmed down curriculum, that all state schools, no matter what type,
4:18:28 > 4:18:34must teach, which includes not just sex and relationship education, but
4:18:34 > 4:18:43all aspects of pH of -- PHSE. I was heartened to see MPs of all sides
4:18:43 > 4:18:48join forces to ensure the Government will change the law and sex
4:18:48 > 4:18:52education will become compulsory for all secondary schools, the Tiago the
4:18:52 > 4:18:56calls from across this House for the Government to move faster. It has
4:18:56 > 4:19:00not brought the new law into force. We were told the new students would
4:19:00 > 4:19:04study the new curriculum in September 2019, but as we have
4:19:04 > 4:19:08already had, we need that consultation process to start and
4:19:08 > 4:19:12move quickly. The Government should also make the other aspects of PHSE
4:19:12 > 4:19:18compulsory as well.
4:19:18 > 4:19:21We have a duty of care to our next aeration is that they don't make the
4:19:21 > 4:19:24same mistakes as ours and I echo what others have said in his room
4:19:24 > 4:19:28that had is hard and I have felt this week. Children deserve to
4:19:28 > 4:19:34flourish. Tonight what it is to respect their peers and to enjoy
4:19:34 > 4:19:36healthy relationships, not ones that are characterised by misogyny and
4:19:36 > 4:19:48exploitation. We owe it to them to do much, much better.Thank you,
4:19:48 > 4:19:52Madam that is bigger and can I thank my honourable friend the member for
4:19:52 > 4:19:54Basingstoke and the honourable member for Birmingham you before
4:19:54 > 4:19:57securing this debate although in sad circumstances because it is a year
4:19:57 > 4:20:03on from when my honourable at -- the honourable Lady's committee made
4:20:03 > 4:20:08recommendations to the government. Clearly there's also the horrible,
4:20:08 > 4:20:14horrific issues that have happened this week. And it even more poignant
4:20:14 > 4:20:18that we're having this debate today and the issue with the schools at
4:20:18 > 4:20:21the start of why we have this systemic problem arguably in the
4:20:21 > 4:20:25south and across various parts of society, not just in this house but
4:20:25 > 4:20:28in business, local government and in every level, I would argue, of
4:20:28 > 4:20:33society. I have already raised this with the Minister, that I rise up
4:20:33 > 4:20:36with the knowledge that education is devolved to the National Assembly
4:20:36 > 4:20:39and it is the responsibility of the Welsh government but I also rise to
4:20:39 > 4:20:43say that this issue has no borders, whether it is in the United Kingdom
4:20:43 > 4:20:47of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, European Union, it is a
4:20:47 > 4:20:52matter for every country in the world, this this stain on our
4:20:52 > 4:20:56society is unacceptable across the world and does not have any
4:20:56 > 4:21:00boundaries in my opinion, Madam that is bigger. For women in particular,
4:21:00 > 4:21:04the reality of sexual harassment and violence is first apparent in
4:21:04 > 4:21:07school. As a form in a cabinet member for children's social care
4:21:07 > 4:21:13and education for four years in Wales, I fought against some
4:21:13 > 4:21:20teachers in senior leadership roles do have organisations like Stonewall
4:21:20 > 4:21:23Cymru to come in and assess the violence of impact in schools, an
4:21:23 > 4:21:27LGBT bullying and bullying generally, and the issue is quite
4:21:27 > 4:21:32poignant in my mind is in relation to the academic year issue. I was up
4:21:32 > 4:21:38against certain schools telling me, "We couldn't possibly do that until
4:21:38 > 4:21:44next September". "We Can't put in your policy, counsellor," as I was
4:21:44 > 4:21:47told them because they were told time and again they could not fit it
4:21:47 > 4:21:49into the curriculum because the curriculum plans had been written
4:21:49 > 4:21:52and I fought against that over a number of years, successively,
4:21:52 > 4:21:58whatever I put in to try to Brivio comes bullying, assessments or
4:21:58 > 4:22:02whatever, there was the constant issue of timetabling and "It won't
4:22:02 > 4:22:05work because we've already written the timetable", and that is a true
4:22:05 > 4:22:08value of some schools and school leaders and some school governors,
4:22:08 > 4:22:11who lack the understanding of what is happening on the coal face, if
4:22:11 > 4:22:19you will, in some schools across the UK. The effects are huge, on mental
4:22:19 > 4:22:24health and well-being. It leaves lasting scars on girls and on some
4:22:24 > 4:22:28boys in terms of whether they move into the workplace and for those who
4:22:28 > 4:22:32have committed those offences, or offences in my view, they think it
4:22:32 > 4:22:35is then acceptable, as I say, in society for them to carry on doing
4:22:35 > 4:22:38that and I speak as someone who was never sexually assaulted in school
4:22:38 > 4:22:42but I was horrifically assaulted in school to the point where I was
4:22:42 > 4:22:46hospitalised several times and received mental health support for
4:22:46 > 4:22:51what would be considered a breakdown at the age of 14, the age of 16 and
4:22:51 > 4:22:57the age of 17. I know all too well the horrors of being attacked for
4:22:57 > 4:23:00supposedly, as you would have it, Madam Debord is bigger, being a
4:23:00 > 4:23:05homosexual, which I am not. And if I was, so what? But that was the
4:23:05 > 4:23:09rationale for me being attacked to the point where I was finally
4:23:09 > 4:23:13assaulted and hospitalised at the age of 17, that involve
4:23:13 > 4:23:18reconstruction, minor reconstruction to part of my face because I was
4:23:18 > 4:23:23assaulted at a friend's home by seven school friends, based on the
4:23:23 > 4:23:28premise that I was, and I should keep this within Parliamentary
4:23:28 > 4:23:34language, Madam Deputy Speaker, a gayer and I deserve the attacks I
4:23:34 > 4:23:40received as a 17-year-old boy. The research published by the society
4:23:40 > 4:23:42was I put all sides in 2013 demonstrated the victims of bullying
4:23:42 > 4:23:46in schools were more likely to have left without qualifications and were
4:23:46 > 4:23:50less likely to have friends and this is a systemic issue again of where
4:23:50 > 4:23:53girls don't underperform on boys as long as girls are treated fairly
4:23:53 > 4:23:59within education and I think it is a huge failure of all society that we
4:23:59 > 4:24:03have this ongoing problem. The NSPCC says that abuse survivors, and the
4:24:03 > 4:24:07idea that you were abused at a trial disgust me but nevertheless, that
4:24:07 > 4:24:10you are surviving the abuse means you then have a relationship
4:24:10 > 4:24:13difficulties, you don't understand what it is to be in a loving and
4:24:13 > 4:24:16caring relationship because you understand that abuse simply happens
4:24:16 > 4:24:21when you are a child, therefore you expect it when you marry, or you
4:24:21 > 4:24:24never marry, whenever you form a relationship, whatever it might be.
4:24:24 > 4:24:28I want to touch briefly on what the Welsh government are doing in the
4:24:28 > 4:24:31time remaining, in relation to now encouraging schools to formally
4:24:31 > 4:24:35record and they started this last year so schools in Wales now
4:24:35 > 4:24:41recording cases to make sure it is fed into Welsh government
4:24:41 > 4:24:44information, so for the first time, in a number of years, that is
4:24:44 > 4:24:49actually happening. They are also now instructing schools to Mark
4:24:49 > 4:24:52safer Internet Day, and explain the process of saying that these things
4:24:52 > 4:24:57can happen to you in terms of social media and in terms of access to
4:24:57 > 4:25:00pornography so those are things that I think perhaps the Minister could
4:25:00 > 4:25:03look at to learn from the devolved administrations and one of the other
4:25:03 > 4:25:07things they have done is to approach women's aid when they are
4:25:07 > 4:25:10formulating their guidance which goes out to schools, so intense
4:25:10 > 4:25:14training, I'm not suggesting for one minute it is perfect and Rosie and
4:25:14 > 4:25:20the sun is shining, well, the sun often does shine in the valleys of
4:25:20 > 4:25:25Wales but nevertheless, there are lessons we can learn from schools
4:25:25 > 4:25:28and from the education service within Wales and I think it is
4:25:28 > 4:25:31something we should look at and a final point I would say to echo the
4:25:31 > 4:25:35cause of the right honourable lady in terms of social media and I think
4:25:35 > 4:25:40my friend from Durham, that we must do more to hold social media
4:25:40 > 4:25:42companies to account. I've spoken upon this many times in this
4:25:42 > 4:25:45chamber. We must bring them to book and the law must be changed to
4:25:45 > 4:25:50improve these young people's lives. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and
4:25:50 > 4:25:55this is my first opportunity to talk in a backbench debate because I'm
4:25:55 > 4:25:59normally rushing home on Thursday to look after my children. It's been a
4:25:59 > 4:26:02pleasure to be here and I want to say to the honourable member for
4:26:02 > 4:26:04Basingstoke and my friend the honourable member for Birmingham
4:26:04 > 4:26:07Yardley that although some of us can't often be part of the work you
4:26:07 > 4:26:11have done on the women and equality 's committee with others, it is a
4:26:11 > 4:26:14pleasure is to support it and take part in the debate. I want to speak
4:26:14 > 4:26:18about why I think this is important for two reasons, the first is
4:26:18 > 4:26:21because I'm a mother of three teenage, well, three boys in
4:26:21 > 4:26:27secondary school. My house is full of banter. It is full of nonstop
4:26:27 > 4:26:32football, male sport, it is often full of many teenage boys coming
4:26:32 > 4:26:39round to watch said sport with banter and said boys along with my
4:26:39 > 4:26:43partner. In fact, one of the good opportunities I have by being a
4:26:43 > 4:26:47member of Parliament is that I have total autonomy over my own remote
4:26:47 > 4:26:55control in my own TV in my own house. I enjoy... I feel the
4:26:55 > 4:26:59responsibility of being a mother to those boys, particularly strongly in
4:26:59 > 4:27:04the last couple of weeks. I have been horrified and deeply incapable
4:27:04 > 4:27:10of explaining to them the behaviours of some of my own colleagues and
4:27:10 > 4:27:14colleagues across this house. It is not a position that I would have
4:27:14 > 4:27:17expected to be in and I'm singularly unequipped to deal with it but we do
4:27:17 > 4:27:23our best. People have talked about role models. What I have also been
4:27:23 > 4:27:27pleased about in the last two weeks and I think we should record is that
4:27:27 > 4:27:30amongst our colleagues, there are some magnificent role models and I
4:27:30 > 4:27:34have talked with many of my male colleagues who are also parents of
4:27:34 > 4:27:39teenage boys in the last few weeks about how they continue to be good
4:27:39 > 4:27:45role models for their sons. It is important in this debate, I'm not
4:27:45 > 4:27:48sure if I am in between a feminist or I'm slightly older than the
4:27:48 > 4:27:53honourable member for Walthamstow, but we need to be able to equip
4:27:53 > 4:27:59ourselves to talk with... I start my life as a feminist but I think we do
4:27:59 > 4:28:05need to be able to talk with young boys about these matters and this is
4:28:05 > 4:28:11why this report is so important. My second reason for really feeling
4:28:11 > 4:28:14very passionately about it is like memory honourable members, my
4:28:14 > 4:28:19surgery continues to be full of young women dealing with the
4:28:19 > 4:28:22consequences of sexual harassment and particularly domestic violence.
4:28:22 > 4:28:26It is a huge issue in my constituency. And my honourable
4:28:26 > 4:28:30friend, the member for Bristol West, who herself is an expert in this
4:28:30 > 4:28:34area of some 26 years experience of this work, has always been very
4:28:34 > 4:28:39supportive to me because I'm not an expert in this area and she has
4:28:39 > 4:28:42written and very kindly lent me some of her notes for today about the
4:28:42 > 4:28:47work that she has been involved in. The numbers are horrific. I had
4:28:47 > 4:28:49absolutely no idea that this level of sexual harassment was prevalent
4:28:49 > 4:28:54in our schools, despite being very actively involved in my children's
4:28:54 > 4:28:58school and education at all ages. My honourable friend from Bristol West
4:28:58 > 4:29:02has talked about the need that young people do need to know the basics of
4:29:02 > 4:29:06sex education but they also need to know how they can leave an abusive
4:29:06 > 4:29:10relationship or how they can seek help or what the consequences are
4:29:10 > 4:29:15when their own classmates are suffering from abuse or any kind of
4:29:15 > 4:29:20harassment and we have heard some terrific examples today. People are
4:29:20 > 4:29:24not -- horrific examples. People are not equipped to support young people
4:29:24 > 4:29:27in schools, I think the member for Abingdon West talked about her own
4:29:27 > 4:29:32experience as an educator. It is time critical to really help people
4:29:32 > 4:29:36in our schools to be able to talk about these issues and guide our
4:29:36 > 4:29:40young people. I will just finish on the note, I myself was educated at
4:29:40 > 4:29:45primary school level in a catholic school. I can't imagine, if my
4:29:45 > 4:29:48parents had had the opportunity, if at the time we were talking about
4:29:48 > 4:29:54things, would they have opted me out of such education. I think that is a
4:29:54 > 4:29:57difficult one. I pick my mother probably would have done and that
4:29:57 > 4:30:01would have been wrong. I feel very passionately about secular education
4:30:01 > 4:30:05because of mine experiences. It is not acceptable, even as a parent, I
4:30:05 > 4:30:08feel very strongly about this, to adopt children out of this
4:30:08 > 4:30:17education. The rise in academies and their choosing to not teach around
4:30:17 > 4:30:20these matters is also not acceptable. I think the events of
4:30:20 > 4:30:25the past two weeks in this place really now hides in the need for us
4:30:25 > 4:30:30to set an example to the country about the need to educate all our
4:30:30 > 4:30:35young people, to be equipped with this in the future.
4:30:39 > 4:30:43Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm absolutely delighted to
4:30:43 > 4:30:46be able to join you for this debate this afternoon, usually I would be a
4:30:46 > 4:30:50way up the road as well so I'm glad to be here for this very important
4:30:50 > 4:30:54discussion on this very important report and of course paid tribute to
4:30:54 > 4:30:58all of the wonderful members of that committee, not least the members for
4:30:58 > 4:31:01Basingstoke and the member for Birmingham Yardley, for putting this
4:31:01 > 4:31:04report together and pursuing all of those issues and getting the
4:31:04 > 4:31:11evidence that we need to ensure that action is now taken. We have a
4:31:11 > 4:31:16similar, we had a similar inquiry in the Scottish parliament, the
4:31:16 > 4:31:19equalities and human rights committee, which also carried out a
4:31:19 > 4:31:24very similar report on prejudice -based bullying and harassment of
4:31:24 > 4:31:28children and young people in schools and that came out in July this year
4:31:28 > 4:31:32and it is not unremarkable, I suppose, that a lot of the issues
4:31:32 > 4:31:36gathered in that report were similar. I think one of the things
4:31:36 > 4:31:40that I took from both reports as well is the issue of prevention of
4:31:40 > 4:31:45misogynistic behaviour. That does not just involve girls and it does
4:31:45 > 4:31:48not just involve boys, it should involve whole skills communities in
4:31:48 > 4:31:53that and it has to look at the issues that are driving sexism in
4:31:53 > 4:31:56society, as many members this afternoon have mentioned. This is
4:31:56 > 4:32:00not just about schools. This is about universities and society as a
4:32:00 > 4:32:08whole and how we deal with these issues. What I think is important is
4:32:08 > 4:32:12that sex education is there for everybody and is consistent across
4:32:12 > 4:32:15all schools as well so that everybody gets the same message and
4:32:15 > 4:32:21everybody has a proper space to be able to learn these things and in
4:32:21 > 4:32:24Scotland, I pay tribute also to the campaign which is pushing very hard
4:32:24 > 4:32:29in getting LGBT education into school as well because that can also
4:32:29 > 4:32:34be a huge source of bullying, as the honourable member mentioned and we
4:32:34 > 4:32:38need to make sure that everybody feels safe and protected and able to
4:32:38 > 4:32:42conduct their education without fear of bullying and harassment within
4:32:42 > 4:32:47the educational environment. Just to add to some of the evidence that has
4:32:47 > 4:32:53been given in the reports, rape crisis Scotland, in the evidence to
4:32:53 > 4:32:59the Scottish report, talked about the focus schools often have girls
4:32:59 > 4:33:02behaviour, that they have to somehow dressed in a particular way or act
4:33:02 > 4:33:08in a particular way, and not feel pressurised to engage in sexting and
4:33:08 > 4:33:11other such things but actually, it should be the other way around. They
4:33:11 > 4:33:14should not be being pressured or made to feel that what they wear has
4:33:14 > 4:33:19anything to do whatsoever with other people's behaviour towards them. I
4:33:19 > 4:33:22would like to highlight something that might be useful for this
4:33:22 > 4:33:26Parliament to look at which is a recent be -- abusive behaviour and
4:33:26 > 4:33:30sexual harm Scotland act 2016 which came into force in July this year
4:33:30 > 4:33:34which makes it a criminal offence to disclose or threaten to disclose an
4:33:34 > 4:33:40intimate photograph or film, which then, if that happens, you could
4:33:40 > 4:33:43face up to five years imprisonment which is actually quite a deterrent
4:33:43 > 4:33:45and there's been a huge public information campaign in Scotland
4:33:45 > 4:33:51about that under the banner of "Not yours to share", highlighting to
4:33:51 > 4:33:55people that these images are not yours to share, they are intimate
4:33:55 > 4:33:58images and should not be shared and people should not feel pressured to
4:33:58 > 4:34:03have them take in the first place if they don't want to. In common with
4:34:03 > 4:34:06lots of the other issues that were highlighted earlier by honourable
4:34:06 > 4:34:11members, there is a gap in data and in Jeddah, the wonderful women's
4:34:11 > 4:34:13organisation in Scotland have highlighted as well the gaps in the
4:34:13 > 4:34:17data about reporting and where it is a problem, that there is almost
4:34:17 > 4:34:22certainly under reporting of sexual harassment in schools, as in life
4:34:22 > 4:34:26because it is normalised. It becomes a joke, it becomes part of the
4:34:26 > 4:34:30banter and everything like that. If this week has taught us anything,
4:34:30 > 4:34:33and I would like to hope it has, it is that we must believe women and
4:34:33 > 4:34:38not trivialise this behaviour at all because that is a dangerous slope
4:34:38 > 4:34:44down which we go. In Scotland, teachers have also been at the
4:34:44 > 4:34:48forefront of campaigning for this as well and I would commend to you the
4:34:48 > 4:34:52EIS report, get it right for girls, which sought to challenge
4:34:52 > 4:34:57misogynistic behaviour and words in schools as well. Everything from
4:34:57 > 4:35:01physical attacks, down to the language used in schools, saying
4:35:01 > 4:35:06things girly or telling people to man up, those are the stereotype
4:35:06 > 4:35:08that perpetuate through education as well, objectification of women, the
4:35:08 > 4:35:12roles of women in society and they seek to challenge that, very much
4:35:12 > 4:35:18so. They think we have an awful lot we can do to challenge that and work
4:35:18 > 4:35:23on that. It is something I think about quite a lot as well because
4:35:23 > 4:35:27I've got a seven-year-old and a little girl who is going to be four
4:35:27 > 4:35:29next week. I'm very conscious of what they learn in school and
4:35:29 > 4:35:31nursery.
4:35:36 > 4:35:41When my son was in nursery the children were asked what they wanted
4:35:41 > 4:35:48to do when they grew up. The boys wanted to be ambulance drivers and
4:35:48 > 4:35:54active things but the girls wanted to be dancers and singers. Why are
4:35:54 > 4:35:58they choosing that rather than ambulance driver? Why are they so
4:35:58 > 4:36:02stereotyped into those roles at the age of three? Madam Deputy Speaker,
4:36:02 > 4:36:08we need to think about this. And also consent starts at a young age
4:36:08 > 4:36:12as well. You can do it with something as simple as tickling. If
4:36:12 > 4:36:18you're tickling a child and they say stop, you stop. That is teaching
4:36:18 > 4:36:23consent to very young children. They understand that, they know that. If
4:36:23 > 4:36:32you are building resilience from a young age they know that if you want
4:36:32 > 4:36:35somebody to stop you tell them to stop and that happens. That is
4:36:35 > 4:36:37something we can build from a young age and we should definitely be
4:36:37 > 4:36:40looking at that. I think there are many more things I can say Madam,
4:36:40 > 4:36:44Deputy Speaker but I am happy to conclude that. I'm happy to
4:36:44 > 4:36:48encourage the Government to look at other places and to act. As all
4:36:48 > 4:36:52honourable members have said this afternoon, we cannot wait any longer
4:36:52 > 4:36:58for action on this issue, because every day every child goes to school
4:36:58 > 4:37:01in this country, they are facing that and that is not acceptable any
4:37:01 > 4:37:08more and we need to act.Dawn Butler.Thank you. I would like to
4:37:08 > 4:37:12pay tribute to the right honourable member for Basingstoke, for securing
4:37:12 > 4:37:22this debate and her thoughtful opening to the debate. As chair of
4:37:22 > 4:37:26the Women and Equalities committee, she has led important work in
4:37:26 > 4:37:29exposing the extent of sexual harassment and violence in schools.
4:37:29 > 4:37:34I would also like to thank all of the members who have contributed to
4:37:34 > 4:37:41this debate. Moving contributions from the member for Ogmore and an
4:37:41 > 4:37:47example of how you can use your experiences in this place to make
4:37:47 > 4:37:53very valuable points. I would also like to thank Mr Speaker, he is
4:37:53 > 4:37:56obviously not in the chair at the moment, for the assurances given on
4:37:56 > 4:38:00Monday that sexual harassment and bullying are not acceptable here or
4:38:00 > 4:38:05anywhere else. And I'll so want to thank the speaker for the subsequent
4:38:05 > 4:38:10meeting that we held with him, the Leader of the Opposition and others,
4:38:10 > 4:38:18in his office. Madam Deputy Speaker, this motion is part of a cultural
4:38:18 > 4:38:24and political watershed. As we have heard today, the exposure of lots of
4:38:24 > 4:38:30instances, Harvey Weinstein, by victims of his brutal misogyny has
4:38:30 > 4:38:36seen his impunity come to an end. It serves as a stark warning. No one,
4:38:36 > 4:38:40no matter how powerful they are, no matter what their position is, or
4:38:40 > 4:38:45who their friends are, can be free to harass or inflict violence
4:38:45 > 4:38:50against any gender or child. Here too in this House, and it was
4:38:50 > 4:38:54mentioned by the member for Basingstoke, people are coming
4:38:54 > 4:39:00together across party lines to say enough is enough. Bullying and
4:39:00 > 4:39:04harassment and misogyny must end. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have
4:39:04 > 4:39:09reached a tipping point in all industries and sectors. This is
4:39:09 > 4:39:12quite unprecedented, and as the member for Walthamstow mentioned,
4:39:12 > 4:39:18now is the time to act. It is a sad fact that the abuse in Hollywood and
4:39:18 > 4:39:25in Parliament is also widespread in our schools. It shows there is no
4:39:25 > 4:39:28refuge from misogyny. Madam Deputy Speaker, sexual harassment and
4:39:28 > 4:39:32violence operates at the same level inside and outside of the school
4:39:32 > 4:39:37gates. I remember during the election being verbally abused by a
4:39:37 > 4:39:42constituent who was shouting that he would not vote for me because I
4:39:42 > 4:39:46refused to support his son at school. It took me awhile to
4:39:46 > 4:39:52register him he was. He was the father of a young boy. He and the
4:39:52 > 4:39:56grip of his friends surrounded a young girl and pulled her knickers
4:39:56 > 4:40:02down. It took me a long time to try and get through to him that just
4:40:02 > 4:40:07imagine if it was your daughter, not your son, and I didn't care if he
4:40:07 > 4:40:17was going to vote for me or not! Bullying, sexual harassment is
4:40:17 > 4:40:21attempts to stop young people, predominately women, but not
4:40:21 > 4:40:26exclusively women, from achieving their potential. It is intended to
4:40:26 > 4:40:31humiliate, undermine, threaten, silence and intimidate. Coupled with
4:40:31 > 4:40:37the climate that such behaviours have been normalised if not
4:40:37 > 4:40:42trivialised, things like it was only a touch, it was just banter, it did
4:40:42 > 4:40:46not mean anything, we are teaching impunity for perpetrators, while
4:40:46 > 4:40:51teaching young women that it would be accept it rather than challenged.
4:40:51 > 4:40:57Madam Deputy Speaker, we are in enabling an environment where
4:40:57 > 4:41:02particularly women and girls feel unsafe in schools. That is really
4:41:02 > 4:41:05uncomfortable place to be. The result is this, that they are often
4:41:05 > 4:41:11unable to learn in that kind of environment. They feel powerless to
4:41:11 > 4:41:15expect any challenge to such behaviour. This is harming so many
4:41:15 > 4:41:19young people's learning outcomes and their long-term financial
4:41:19 > 4:41:23independence, and it is also damaging their mental health. The
4:41:23 > 4:41:32situation at the moment quite bleak. Women and Equalities have found that
4:41:32 > 4:41:36two thirds of girls have been sexually harassed in the last year,
4:41:36 > 4:41:43this was up from 59% in 2014. But despite this horrific culture, young
4:41:43 > 4:41:52women are refusing to accept it. -- Girlguiding have found this. 91% of
4:41:52 > 4:42:03girls feel they are ready to challenge behaviour. Madam debt the
4:42:03 > 4:42:10Speaker, I would also like to briefly highlight the situation for
4:42:10 > 4:42:14LGBT plus pupils at school. Stonewall have found that nearly
4:42:14 > 4:42:18half of LGBT plus pupils including two of three try and peoples are
4:42:18 > 4:42:24bullied at school. This does not even include the homophobic and
4:42:24 > 4:42:29transferred it abuse that LGBT plus pupils receive outside of schools.
4:42:29 > 4:42:33Can the Minister, when she rises to her feet, and I know she is very
4:42:33 > 4:42:38passionate about this area, tell us if the Department fridge or a well
4:42:38 > 4:42:44tell us if all teaching and training programmes will teach positively
4:42:44 > 4:42:50about LGBT plus issues and tackling anti LGBT plus bullying? Training is
4:42:50 > 4:42:56vital to taking people on a journey, for the pupils to understand, for
4:42:56 > 4:43:00the teachers to understand, and also for the adults to understand and in
4:43:00 > 4:43:06this place, and at this juncture I also want to thank Mr Speaker again
4:43:06 > 4:43:12for his agreement at the meeting of Her Majesty's official opposition,
4:43:12 > 4:43:16that sexual harassment, unconscious bias and other forms of training
4:43:16 > 4:43:20will be provided centrally by the Houses of Parliament subject to all
4:43:20 > 4:43:25the checks and balances. If I may return, Madam Deputy Speaker, to the
4:43:25 > 4:43:32report published by the Women and Equalities committee last year on
4:43:32 > 4:43:36sexual harassment and sexual violence in schools, the committee
4:43:36 > 4:43:38uncovered the extent of this behaviour in schools across England,
4:43:38 > 4:43:43but they also found that the Government had no plan to tackle the
4:43:43 > 4:43:46causes and consequences of violence aimed at young women. There can be
4:43:46 > 4:43:52no doubt that it was the work of the committee, as well as those who
4:43:52 > 4:43:58campaign outside of this place, that led to the Department for Education
4:43:58 > 4:44:00and announcing compulsory relationship and sex education in
4:44:00 > 4:44:05schools. And this is to be welcomed. A report prepared for the Government
4:44:05 > 4:44:09highlighted that the number of young people who have seen pornographic
4:44:09 > 4:44:17material in 2015 was 2% of nine to ten-year-olds, 9% of 11 to
4:44:17 > 4:44:2212-year-olds, and 25% amongst 13 to 14-year-olds and 15 to 16-year-olds.
4:44:22 > 4:44:26The mentor for Basingstoke also mentioned some other disturbing
4:44:26 > 4:44:33figures in her speech. There is no time to be lost in teaching
4:44:33 > 4:44:39relationship and sex education in our schools. The Government must
4:44:39 > 4:44:42ensure this is properly funded and resourced, so may I ask the minister
4:44:42 > 4:44:46if she can let the House know if there has been any discussions with
4:44:46 > 4:44:56the Treasury to secure adequate funding? And if not, when there will
4:44:56 > 4:45:00be. With the budget around the corner there is the perfect
4:45:00 > 4:45:08opportunity for this to be done and money to be allocated.
4:45:08 > 4:45:11Can Shulver confirm when the consultation will begin for the
4:45:11 > 4:45:19timescales, the arrangement, and how young girls voices will be represent
4:45:19 > 4:45:29a Dutch in the conservation consumer can she also say that this will
4:45:29 > 4:45:33include camera-macro inclusive training. Finally, can the Minister
4:45:33 > 4:45:36confirm that the Department for Education is preparing new guidance
4:45:36 > 4:45:40for schools on how to deal with sexual harassment and assault as
4:45:40 > 4:45:44recommended by the committee and will schools get this said guidance
4:45:44 > 4:45:53before Christmas? If so, are there plans to train teachers on the
4:45:53 > 4:45:59guidance, because as I said earlier, training is important in
4:45:59 > 4:46:02implementation in entering the guidance is rather draw schools.
4:46:02 > 4:46:07Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and
4:46:07 > 4:46:11I have a long speech, I would be able to cover all the points that
4:46:11 > 4:46:16were raised so I will make sure everyone who has contributed in this
4:46:16 > 4:46:20debate gets a timeline of what is happening and when and certainly, if
4:46:20 > 4:46:24I don't mention all of the points, the Shadow minister raised, I will
4:46:24 > 4:46:29make sure she gets an update on all of that. I would like to
4:46:29 > 4:46:32congratulate my right honourable friend for securing this debate. She
4:46:32 > 4:46:36has done a brilliant job, as the first and only chair of the women
4:46:36 > 4:46:40and equality is committee. She really is to be commended. The
4:46:40 > 4:46:45honourable member for Bognor raised the coincidence of us having the
4:46:45 > 4:46:50debate this week, individuals abusing their powerful positions in
4:46:50 > 4:46:55order to sexually exploit those who are seeking patronage or merely
4:46:55 > 4:46:59trying to get on with their jobs at the time and that is just in
4:46:59 > 4:47:03Westminster. But in reality, as we have heard, this is happening
4:47:03 > 4:47:13everywhere and in our schools and the always campaign has gained
4:47:13 > 4:47:15momentum and undoubtedly done much to reduce the stigma and the
4:47:15 > 4:47:19damaging shame associated with people coming forward who have
4:47:19 > 4:47:28experienced this. -- the #metoo campaign. There was a hug for the
4:47:28 > 4:47:32honourable member for Walthamstow, and in my view, he bravely mentioned
4:47:32 > 4:47:37his horrific experiences, and he not only deserves a hug but our respect
4:47:37 > 4:47:43for having done so. I'm going to pick up on a few of the points that
4:47:43 > 4:47:46honourable members raised, shocking figures from my right honourable
4:47:46 > 4:47:50friend, the member for Basingstoke and I think the really worrying
4:47:50 > 4:47:55thing she reported is that this is just the tip of the iceberg and as
4:47:55 > 4:48:00she rightly says, get it wrong in schools, and it goes on right the
4:48:00 > 4:48:05way throughout a child's life. And they become abusive adults. She
4:48:05 > 4:48:14talked about collections of data. I have great sympathy with her. If you
4:48:14 > 4:48:17measure it, it matters. But I think she deserves a fuller letter on that
4:48:17 > 4:48:20in particular. She specifically mentioned about online pornography.
4:48:20 > 4:48:23We have been talking about this for as long as I've been a member of
4:48:23 > 4:48:27this house. And although I am not the schools minister, I am a
4:48:27 > 4:48:33minister for women. Maybe it is sad that I'm not entirely shocked about
4:48:33 > 4:48:39it all. Is the law clear? Do teachers understand the law? The
4:48:39 > 4:48:43shadow minister mentioned about training, even if you understand the
4:48:43 > 4:48:46law, and understand what you are required to do, you need training in
4:48:46 > 4:48:54how to do that. My right honourable friend was also right that as soon
4:48:54 > 4:48:56as the government introduces restrictions, somebody finds a way
4:48:56 > 4:49:01around them and I know my right honourable friend the Secretary of
4:49:01 > 4:49:07State for DCMS is clearly very aware of some of these issues. I used the
4:49:07 > 4:49:10phrase not by accident but on purpose. My honourable friend, the
4:49:10 > 4:49:16member for Birmingham Yardley, and we have been in the papers about our
4:49:16 > 4:49:21friendship and the honourable member for Walthamstow, you know, it is
4:49:21 > 4:49:26clear the emotion behind both of their contributions and like her, I
4:49:26 > 4:49:30have to keep on believing that things will change and we won't give
4:49:30 > 4:49:35up and at times, it is dispiriting but I am firmly of the belief that
4:49:35 > 4:49:39if the women in particular, but that does not exclude the men, there have
4:49:39 > 4:49:45been gone to be sure this house today, if we keep on resolutely, in
4:49:45 > 4:49:50a cross-party way, we will make some progress. There will be more
4:49:50 > 4:49:54directive government, something that she is after but action, sadly in
4:49:54 > 4:49:59some ways, needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Teachers can't
4:49:59 > 4:50:07be the arbiter of this. But schools have to recognise that referrals to
4:50:07 > 4:50:10the police on the issue of serious sexual assault is not the end of the
4:50:10 > 4:50:16matter. She is right that we have two act and the honourable member
4:50:16 > 4:50:21for Walthamstow talked a lot about power -- have to act. We don't talk
4:50:21 > 4:50:29about power enough. A lot of sexual abuse, sexual harassment, is all
4:50:29 > 4:50:31about power. The honourable gentleman for Bassetlaw, dog-eared
4:50:31 > 4:50:38as ever, we have had an issue that we have discussed. -- dogged as
4:50:38 > 4:50:43ever. We must not forget in all this that some schools are excellent, as
4:50:43 > 4:50:48he rightly pointed out, we mustn't forget but training on consent in
4:50:48 > 4:50:54schools, in universities, and he is absolutely right, we clearly need
4:50:54 > 4:51:01issues about consent, training about consent, in this place as well. He
4:51:01 > 4:51:04talked about having an epidemic in this country and sadly, he is
4:51:04 > 4:51:10probably right. It can start with us talking about it here, changing
4:51:10 > 4:51:15things here, but it has to change across the country. My honourable
4:51:15 > 4:51:20friend the member for Eastleigh, who is doing a great deal as chair of
4:51:20 > 4:51:23the all-party Parliamentary group for women in Parliament, talked
4:51:23 > 4:51:28about social media companies, there's been a lot of mention of
4:51:28 > 4:51:31social media companies today, they have to come to the table and we
4:51:31 > 4:51:39have to do more to enforce them, make them stand up for their
4:51:39 > 4:51:48responsibilities. Just a little bit about pHA 's -- PHSE and
4:51:48 > 4:51:54relationship and sex education. Relationship education in primary
4:51:54 > 4:51:57schools and relationship and sex education in secondary schools, in
4:51:57 > 4:52:03all schools, is now compulsory. The act also provides powers to make
4:52:03 > 4:52:08PHSE mandatory in schools are subject to consultation, there is a
4:52:08 > 4:52:12consultation going on and we will be looking for feedback from schools,
4:52:12 > 4:52:15teachers, parents, safeguarding experts and as the shadow minister
4:52:15 > 4:52:21said, also from young girls and indeed young boys. This isn't
4:52:21 > 4:52:25restrictive. Sexual violence is not restricted just to girls. This is to
4:52:25 > 4:52:30develop new statutory guidance on RSC and we hope that the draft
4:52:30 > 4:52:35regulations and guidance will be published in consultation in 2018,
4:52:35 > 4:52:39regulations will then be laid alongside the draft guidance and I
4:52:39 > 4:52:42have no doubt there will be an opportunity to debate this further
4:52:42 > 4:52:48in the house. But making RSC compulsory is absolutely not the
4:52:48 > 4:52:53end. I was a former public health minister and are used to say, in
4:52:53 > 4:52:57particular, the FPA were campaigning to make it compulsory but actually,
4:52:57 > 4:53:02just ticking the box, getting the geography teacher or the RE teacher
4:53:02 > 4:53:06or somebody who has not got anything to do on a Thursday afternoon doing
4:53:06 > 4:53:10it is not sufficient. It has got to be covered, it has got to cover the
4:53:10 > 4:53:13kind of issues that have been covered in this debate and it is
4:53:13 > 4:53:19very complex and teachers... We all come to the issue of relationship
4:53:19 > 4:53:25and sex education with our own experiences. We have to be able to
4:53:25 > 4:53:30park those experiences in order to give high-quality training. It has
4:53:30 > 4:53:36got to include an understanding of power in relationships, power
4:53:36 > 4:53:43amongst peer groups are and how that can be used in a sexual nature to
4:53:43 > 4:53:49force young people to submit. All schools have a legislative duty to
4:53:49 > 4:53:55safeguard and protect children. I think it is of note that Ofsted
4:53:55 > 4:54:00always report on whether or not arrangements for safeguarding
4:54:00 > 4:54:04children are effective and the education standards funding agency
4:54:04 > 4:54:09carries its responsibility for academies and free schools. And
4:54:09 > 4:54:12similarly, parents and indeed carers must always have the opportunity to
4:54:12 > 4:54:19discuss concerns with children's social care and the police. Working
4:54:19 > 4:54:22together to Safeguard children is the definitive piece of statutory
4:54:22 > 4:54:26guidance on safeguarding and clarifies the legislative
4:54:26 > 4:54:33requirements on local authority children's social care, health
4:54:33 > 4:54:35services, police, schools and other organisations who work with children
4:54:35 > 4:54:42and families. It is important to note, I think, that in adequate
4:54:42 > 4:54:45safeguarding is one of the few reasons that Ofsted can rate a
4:54:45 > 4:54:51school as inadequate. Irrespective of other good performance, they can
4:54:51 > 4:54:54be brilliant at maths and everything else but if they fail on
4:54:54 > 4:55:01safeguarding, they will be rated inadequate. In a serious situation,
4:55:01 > 4:55:04and a number of very serious and harrowing situations have been
4:55:04 > 4:55:08raised, if parents or carers do not think a child is safe, then they
4:55:08 > 4:55:14should go to children's social care. Alternatively, if a parent or carer
4:55:14 > 4:55:17feels that a school is not fulfilling its duty to either follow
4:55:17 > 4:55:23its policies or has inadequate policies, then there is a
4:55:23 > 4:55:30whistle-blowing line with Ofsted and indeed, the NSPCC. I think part of
4:55:30 > 4:55:36what we are doing, and part of what we can do as members of Parliament
4:55:36 > 4:55:40is to actually get parents and carers that come to us to look at
4:55:40 > 4:55:44the school's policies, call the school 's out that on doing... I
4:55:44 > 4:55:48mean, Ofsted can do what they do but in the meantime, we all have a duty,
4:55:48 > 4:55:52and maybe we as members of Parliament need actually to be
4:55:52 > 4:55:56looking at the schools in our constituencies, and ask them about
4:55:56 > 4:56:01their safeguarding policies and take a view as to whether they are
4:56:01 > 4:56:06adequate. I will finish and I have not covered all the points I would
4:56:06 > 4:56:11like you, madam Debord is bigger, but I would like to say, I would
4:56:11 > 4:56:17consider myself not an in between. -- Madame Deputy Speaker. I think
4:56:17 > 4:56:21I'm a born-again feminist, I came here and I don't think the House of
4:56:21 > 4:56:25Commons is sexist. I think it just smells of boys a bit, actually, to
4:56:25 > 4:56:28be honest. When I was a public health minister, I had
4:56:28 > 4:56:31responsibility for sexual health and what struck me more than anything
4:56:31 > 4:56:36was reflecting back over 40 years, was how very much more complicated
4:56:36 > 4:56:42life was for young people. They had to make decisions on a far more
4:56:42 > 4:56:45complex set of choices than I ever had to make and it is not just
4:56:45 > 4:56:48about, for me, it was just about smoking and drinking and whether and
4:56:48 > 4:56:53how much to do both but taking club drugs, being on the pill, using
4:56:53 > 4:56:57condoms to protect yourself from STIs, who to have sex with, where
4:56:57 > 4:57:00and when and the risks of going home with somebody and if you now overlay
4:57:00 > 4:57:07on that all that is on social media, all the pornography that is freely
4:57:07 > 4:57:11available, all the coercive sexual behaviour that we know goes on in
4:57:11 > 4:57:16schools, sexual assault and rape in or outside the classroom, it is
4:57:16 > 4:57:22absolutely clear we have much more to do to make young people more
4:57:22 > 4:57:29resilient, more able to resist the challenges they face and there is no
4:57:29 > 4:57:35doubt there is an urgency to do exactly that.To wind up, I call
4:57:35 > 4:57:39Maria Miller.Thank you Mr Speaker and I'd like to make everyone who
4:57:39 > 4:57:42has taken part in the debate today but particularly to my right
4:57:42 > 4:57:47honourable friend the Minister who I know takes this issue to her heart.
4:57:47 > 4:57:50Because if we don't tackle sexual harassment in schools, we don't only
4:57:50 > 4:57:55let down girls who were most often the victims we let boys, too. They
4:57:55 > 4:58:02don't learn how to develop a healthy relationship in the future. And as a
4:58:02 > 4:58:07mother of two teenage boys, I feel that strongly. I welcome the clear
4:58:07 > 4:58:10commitment from the Minister in her response to this debate but do you
4:58:10 > 4:58:16know what? I will really work even more her action to bring about the
4:58:16 > 4:58:20changes that we have set out in our report and I think the house will be
4:58:20 > 4:58:26looking to her to put her weight and her commitment and her enthusiasm
4:58:26 > 4:58:32behind that will stop thank you, Mr Speaker.Thank you very much indeed,
4:58:32 > 4:58:35I'm grateful to the right honourable lady anti-war colleagues who were
4:58:35 > 4:58:40able to take part in the debate. The question is as on the order paper,
4:58:40 > 4:58:47as many as are of the opinion, said aye. On the contrary, no. The ayes
4:58:47 > 4:58:53have it. The ayes have it. Petition, Matt Weston.Thank you, Mr Speaker,
4:58:53 > 4:58:57for the opportunity to present this important position, concerning early
4:58:57 > 4:59:01years provision in Warwickshire. The residents of Warwick and Leamington,
4:59:01 > 4:59:05the constituency I represent, have asked I put forward this petition,
4:59:05 > 4:59:12the latest of six that together have collected over 7000 signatures
4:59:12 > 4:59:15across Warwickshire, for those people, representatives of those
4:59:15 > 4:59:22people who oppose the closure of 25 children's centres. The petition
4:59:22 > 4:59:24states the residents: Warwickshire County Council to reconsider its
4:59:24 > 4:59:29decision to reduce the number of centres from 39 to 14 and its cut of
4:59:29 > 4:59:34£1.2 million. It urges the council to postpone its decision at the very
4:59:34 > 4:59:37least and that these proposals be fully consulted with resident of
4:59:37 > 4:59:40Warwickshire.
5:00:12 > 5:00:15The whip to move. The question is that this house do now adjourned. Mr
5:00:15 > 5:00:21Bernard Jenkin?Mr Speaker, I'm grateful for your granting me this
5:00:21 > 5:00:26debate and it is a pleasure you should be in the chair, given that
5:00:26 > 5:00:30you are also the Chancellor of the University of Essex.
5:02:16 > 5:02:24I had the privilege, and I'm privileged to be a member of the
5:02:24 > 5:02:28Court of the university. Over the years I witnessed how much the
5:02:28 > 5:02:35University of Essex has contributed to academia, the local economy and
5:02:35 > 5:02:47the wider economy. In June, Essex was awarded gold in the teaching
5:02:47 > 5:02:52excellence framework. Essex was also ranked in the top 15 for student
5:02:52 > 5:02:56satisfaction for the fifth year running in the National student
5:02:56 > 5:03:02survey and 22nd in the Times and Sunday Times University 's guide.
5:03:02 > 5:03:11Further, Essex was ranked in the top 20 for research excellence. Mr
5:03:11 > 5:03:16Speaker, very few universities and Excel in both education and
5:03:16 > 5:03:20research, while also performing strongly in measures of overall
5:03:20 > 5:03:24student experience, graduate prospects and quality facilities.
5:03:24 > 5:03:29Essex is one of a small group of universities that genuinely achieves
5:03:29 > 5:03:35this. As a result, Essex students benefit from research led education
5:03:35 > 5:03:39which equips them not only to succeed on the courses, but with the
5:03:39 > 5:03:43skills to succeed in their chosen careers after graduation. I look
5:03:43 > 5:03:46forward to continuing to work with university in the years ahead as it
5:03:46 > 5:03:53builds on these achievements. Mr Speaker, the new higher education
5:03:53 > 5:03:58and research act is introducing a new regulatory framework. One of the
5:03:58 > 5:04:02effect is to establish two new bodies, one called the office for
5:04:02 > 5:04:08students, the other called UK research and innovation. I will not
5:04:08 > 5:04:12elaborate on the complex details of these reforms, but there is concern
5:04:12 > 5:04:17that these two bodies must work closely together, reflecting the
5:04:17 > 5:04:22importance of integrating research and teaching. I know a consultation
5:04:22 > 5:04:31is in process. Can I commend to the Government the public administration
5:04:31 > 5:04:34select committee report on the effectiveness of public bodies
5:04:34 > 5:04:42entitled who is accountable which was published in 2014. I was chair
5:04:42 > 5:04:50of Pass at that time. Our report found that to make things work
5:04:50 > 5:04:55effectively, in a situation like this, the department must develop
5:04:55 > 5:04:58confident, open and trusting relationships, both within the
5:04:58 > 5:05:03Department in these two policy areas and with the officials in the
5:05:03 > 5:05:05Department fridge and land the leadership of those two public
5:05:05 > 5:05:11bodies. There is no other way to ensure there is a high level of
5:05:11 > 5:05:16corporation between these two bodies, so that the mutual benefits
5:05:16 > 5:05:20which result from excellent research and outstanding education
5:05:20 > 5:05:25experiences are promoted. 2017 is proving to be a record year for
5:05:25 > 5:05:31recruitment at Essex with close to 6000 students starting undergraduate
5:05:31 > 5:05:35or postgraduate courses this autumn. The university has seen
5:05:35 > 5:05:40unprecedented levels of interest on student places, with 20,000
5:05:40 > 5:05:44applicants for 4400 undergraduate student places this year, allowing
5:05:44 > 5:05:51the university to continue to grow in size. In 2016 university had
5:05:51 > 5:05:5714,000 students, compared to only 9520 12. Essex plans to grow
5:05:57 > 5:06:04further, including student numbers to 20000 by 20 25. Push back 9500 in
5:06:04 > 5:06:132012. Essex has invested heavily in its professional services. This
5:06:13 > 5:06:17recruitment is continuing as the University continues to grow. It is
5:06:17 > 5:06:23also making a significant investment of around 90 million in 2021 in its
5:06:23 > 5:06:27student facilities, student accommodation, knowledge Gateway
5:06:27 > 5:06:29building programme and sports facilities. I look forward to seeing
5:06:29 > 5:06:36the outcome of this work. I will give way to my honourable friend.I
5:06:36 > 5:06:40am grateful for my honourable friend giving way. As he knows almost half
5:06:40 > 5:06:49the students of the University of Essex live in the Colchester area.
5:06:49 > 5:06:55Would he agree with me the huge benefits the University plays in the
5:06:55 > 5:06:59benefits of culture star and we are proud to have the University of
5:06:59 > 5:07:09Essex linked so closely to our town? He will be whereas I am, what a big
5:07:09 > 5:07:13role University plays in the civic life of Colchester and the
5:07:13 > 5:07:19surrounding area. The University of Essex researchers both pioneering
5:07:19 > 5:07:23and world-class. The Department of government at which you studied, Mr
5:07:23 > 5:07:29Speaker, is ranked the best in the country in every assessment of
5:07:29 > 5:07:34research quality that is being undertaken. Essex is also in the top
5:07:34 > 5:07:39four for social science research, fifth for economics and ten for art
5:07:39 > 5:07:44history. Last year, the University secured 42 million of externally
5:07:44 > 5:07:48research funded income, including half £1 million secured by a
5:07:48 > 5:07:52biological sciences research team to investigate marine bacteria which
5:07:52 > 5:07:55will improve our understanding of the impact of global warming in this
5:07:55 > 5:08:02vital part of the Earth support system. As chair of the public
5:08:02 > 5:08:06administration and Constitutional affairs committee, which scrutinises
5:08:06 > 5:08:10the UK Statistics Authority, and what has done work on what is known
5:08:10 > 5:08:15as big data, I'm delighted the Essex has won £27 million from the
5:08:15 > 5:08:19economic and research Council to support its work to 2021 on
5:08:19 > 5:08:24understanding society. This is the largest longitudinal statistical
5:08:24 > 5:08:28study of its kind and provides crucial information for researchers
5:08:28 > 5:08:32and policymakers on changes in attitudes and behaviours over time,
5:08:32 > 5:08:35and on the causes and consequences of deep rooted social problems and
5:08:35 > 5:08:42changing people's lives. The university's status as a leading
5:08:42 > 5:08:47centre of expertise in analysing and handling big data received further
5:08:47 > 5:08:56validation in 2016 and established by UNESCO of its only chain
5:08:56 > 5:09:00analytics and data science at the University of Essex. I would be
5:09:00 > 5:09:03grateful if the Minister could set out how the Government will remain
5:09:03 > 5:09:12fully committed to rule warding -- rewarding research excellence. I
5:09:12 > 5:09:18would like to pay tribute to Sir Anthony King who became the region
5:09:18 > 5:09:23in government at the University of Essex which now enjoys such a
5:09:23 > 5:09:28renowned reputation and I pay tribute to him. The University of
5:09:28 > 5:09:31Essex research has impact through partnerships with businesses of all
5:09:31 > 5:09:35sizes. This work was recognised when it was ranked as one of the top ten
5:09:35 > 5:09:39universities in the UK for engagement with businesses through
5:09:39 > 5:09:43what the Government recognised as knowledge transfer partnerships, and
5:09:43 > 5:09:49ported by the partnership run by Innovate UK to help UK businesses
5:09:49 > 5:09:52improve their competitiveness through better use of UK knowledge,
5:09:52 > 5:09:56technology and skills. The knowledge transfer partnerships are one of the
5:09:56 > 5:10:00main ways the University ensures its research feeds into business
5:10:00 > 5:10:04activity and the range and scope of the UK knowledge transfer
5:10:04 > 5:10:09partnerships is extensive. For example, Essex works with the
5:10:09 > 5:10:15digital agency orbital media, to use artificial intelligence to create
5:10:15 > 5:10:19online GP services. Essex also works with the organisation above
5:10:19 > 5:10:22surveying which will use the latest technology to improve the weights
5:10:22 > 5:10:27drones monitor and inspect solar farms. Essex continues to expand its
5:10:27 > 5:10:32business engagement and an innovation Centre is being built on
5:10:32 > 5:10:40the Colchester campus. This is a joint initiative with Essex County
5:10:40 > 5:10:43Council and the enterprise partnership which will provide
5:10:43 > 5:10:51support for 50 start-ups and knowledge businesses. The University
5:10:51 > 5:10:55research impact supports public institutions in terms of tackling
5:10:55 > 5:11:00social and economic issues. In conjunction with Essex County
5:11:00 > 5:11:06Council, University has appointed the UK's first local authority chief
5:11:06 > 5:11:11scientific adviser, a professor of public policy and data science who
5:11:11 > 5:11:14supports Essex County Council to support policies which are rooted in
5:11:14 > 5:11:19scientific analysis and evidence. Essex was one of the very first
5:11:19 > 5:11:23universities to start offering degree apprenticeships in higher
5:11:23 > 5:11:25education, and these provide students with the skills industry
5:11:25 > 5:11:31needs and allows them to combine studying for a full degree with
5:11:31 > 5:11:36gaining tactical skills in work. Such apprenticeships at the
5:11:36 > 5:11:39financial security of a regular pay packet while providing businesses
5:11:39 > 5:11:44with a cost-effective way of bringing in new talent and skills to
5:11:44 > 5:11:49develop the workforce. The tech giant ARM is already offering degree
5:11:49 > 5:11:53apprenticeships in the partnership with Essex. The university boss at
5:11:53 > 5:11:56work in this area is hugely beneficial with students and
5:11:56 > 5:12:04university standing to benefit a great deal from these opportunities.
5:12:04 > 5:12:06This determination to use research to drive growth has led to Essex
5:12:06 > 5:12:10being asked to lead a government project in the Eastern region to
5:12:10 > 5:12:14grow the economy through improved productivity, by encouraging
5:12:14 > 5:12:20collaboration with businesses. The neighbouring research to application
5:12:20 > 5:12:25network will build collaborations to support business innovation across
5:12:25 > 5:12:28Essex, Kent, Norfolk and Suffolk. I am enormously proud of the
5:12:28 > 5:12:34University of Essex's work, however, I am also proud of its global
5:12:34 > 5:12:39outlook and international spirit. I will give way.I am regretful. I
5:12:39 > 5:12:43declaring interest, I went to Bristol. I'm sorry about that, Mr
5:12:43 > 5:12:50Speaker. But as an MP from the south of the county, can I confirmed to my
5:12:50 > 5:12:54honourable friend that the reach of the University is across the entire
5:12:54 > 5:12:59county and indeed further beyond. In the south of Essex we greatly value
5:12:59 > 5:13:01the economic contribution that the university makes the life of our
5:13:01 > 5:13:11county.I very much grateful welcome my friend Makro's intervention. At
5:13:11 > 5:13:14the time I am celebrating the global reach it is entirely appropriate
5:13:14 > 5:13:21that Southend should be included in the equation. The staff and students
5:13:21 > 5:13:25come from all around the world and the University collaborates
5:13:25 > 5:13:28internationally on a high proportion of its work. The Times higher
5:13:28 > 5:13:33education rankings place the University of Essex second in the UK
5:13:33 > 5:13:38for international outlook and I'm delighted that applications to the
5:13:38 > 5:13:41University from international students continues to increase. I'm
5:13:41 > 5:13:45also delighted that upon their arrival in Essex, international
5:13:45 > 5:13:50staff and students are met with such an open and inclusive welcome. As
5:13:50 > 5:13:53the UK regains control of its borders following Brexit, I would
5:13:53 > 5:13:57urge the Government to assure the barriers are not putting the way of
5:13:57 > 5:14:04universities like Essex, one of the UK's great export success stories,
5:14:04 > 5:14:07in continuing to attract talented students and staff from around the
5:14:07 > 5:14:11globe. I will give way.I think my honourable friend for giving way.
5:14:11 > 5:14:15Apart from having an excellent Chancellor, the University of Essex
5:14:15 > 5:14:21is a great centre for the local community, much more locally than
5:14:21 > 5:14:25just the global community service, inasmuch that this sum I was
5:14:25 > 5:14:29fortunate to give out graduations to hundreds of students who attended
5:14:29 > 5:14:34during the summer break. This University serves a very useful
5:14:34 > 5:14:39purpose there.
5:14:39 > 5:14:42I'm very grateful for that intervention because that's an
5:14:42 > 5:14:46element I did not have in my speech. The Government has obliged us to
5:14:46 > 5:14:51provide support for students from EU countries. Leaving the EU will allow
5:14:51 > 5:14:55us to support more students from poorer countries and I would
5:14:55 > 5:14:59encourage Government to look at how the UK can do this. Can I point out
5:14:59 > 5:15:06that the higher rate amongst EU students taking out default loans is
5:15:06 > 5:15:11a burden. According to figures from the student loans company earlier
5:15:11 > 5:15:16this year, this stands at 4% of EU domicile student loans Warriors
5:15:16 > 5:15:24compared 2.5% of English domicile student loan borrowers. The
5:15:24 > 5:15:29percentage of students who have not yet had their status confirmed is
5:15:29 > 5:15:33also higher among EU domiciled student loan borrowers. It is hard
5:15:33 > 5:15:36for the student loans company to pursue loans being repaid from
5:15:36 > 5:15:41abroad. These losses should not fall on the British taxpayer, noted
5:15:41 > 5:15:47British taxpayers have two K -- British students have to pay higher
5:15:47 > 5:15:51interest rates because of this. I hope the UK will no longer be
5:15:51 > 5:15:59obliged to offer student loans or higher subsidies to EU students
5:15:59 > 5:16:02after we leave the EU, not least because they come from wealthy
5:16:02 > 5:16:07countries and students we could be helping. Essex also leads the way on
5:16:07 > 5:16:11equality and it's very appropriate that the women's equality minister
5:16:11 > 5:16:18is applying to this debate. In 2016, Essex gave its female professors
5:16:18 > 5:16:25one-off pay increase after a gap was shown. It was the first university
5:16:25 > 5:16:30in the UK to do this and the decision was followed in the -- was
5:16:30 > 5:16:34covered in the press. One year on, the gender pay gap has not reopened
5:16:34 > 5:16:37at the University of Essex. The Chancellor at the University
5:16:37 > 5:16:42deserves credit for this. I don't need to say how imported
5:16:42 > 5:16:46universities are two individuals, our society and our economy. They
5:16:46 > 5:16:49transform people's lives through education and the value of their
5:16:49 > 5:16:53research. They provide businesses with people with vital skills they
5:16:53 > 5:16:57need, provide a contributed to the EU economy and as places where
5:16:57 > 5:17:01conscientious issues can be debated and conventional wisdom challenged,
5:17:01 > 5:17:06they enrich our society and culture. I should record that the University
5:17:06 > 5:17:09of Essex was one of the few universities that remained
5:17:09 > 5:17:15officially neutral during the EU referendum. I personally helped find
5:17:15 > 5:17:18speakers from both sides of the argument for a major debate hosted
5:17:18 > 5:17:26by the University just prior to the vote. Essex has the highest record
5:17:26 > 5:17:30for impartiality and protection of freedom of speech. I am sure the
5:17:30 > 5:17:33Speaker will want to join me in congratulating the University of
5:17:33 > 5:17:38Essex for all it is achieving however I hope the Minister will
5:17:38 > 5:17:47address the concerns I raise, with students and the replacement of
5:17:47 > 5:17:51funding, not dependent on the outcome of any negotiations with the
5:17:51 > 5:17:56EU. The Government can decide these things, our future immigration
5:17:56 > 5:18:01policy for example, right now. It can decide right now that it will
5:18:01 > 5:18:04replace EU funding with UK funding, particularly since when we leave the
5:18:04 > 5:18:10EU we will no longer be required to support EU spending which amounts to
5:18:10 > 5:18:179 billion a year. There is no excuse for extending unnecessarily --
5:18:17 > 5:18:19extending uncertainty unnecessarily. I hope my right honourable friend
5:18:19 > 5:18:26will agree with that.Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and I would like
5:18:26 > 5:18:34to congratulate my friend the honourable member for Harwich North
5:18:34 > 5:18:40Essex in securing this debate. Maybe, Mr Speaker, as you are unable
5:18:40 > 5:18:44to speak in this debate from the chair, we can all speak on your
5:18:44 > 5:18:48behalf as I am sure you will concur with the comments. We have a
5:18:48 > 5:18:53world-class education system and obviously the Government is
5:18:53 > 5:18:59committed to ensuring that success continues. Delivering the reform
5:18:59 > 5:19:02outlined in the research act will allow us to do that I honourable
5:19:02 > 5:19:07friend made a number of mentions that. The teaching and excellence
5:19:07 > 5:19:10student framework will allow students to see clearly where
5:19:10 > 5:19:15teaching is of the highest quality and where they are likely to achieve
5:19:15 > 5:19:19the best outcomes. The results also will show us that every single
5:19:19 > 5:19:25participating provider has met demanding number of requirements. It
5:19:25 > 5:19:31was interesting to see both my right honourable friend for Rayleigh and
5:19:31 > 5:19:36the honourable friend for Clacton and my right honourable friend for
5:19:36 > 5:19:40Clacton also state -- Colchester also staying for this debate, such
5:19:40 > 5:19:46is the stature and that Essex holds, keeping three members here for this
5:19:46 > 5:19:51debate. Universities such as Essex, short listed for University of the
5:19:51 > 5:19:56year in The Sunday Times good University guide, are pivotal to the
5:19:56 > 5:19:59success of our higher education system. It was awarded a gold rating
5:19:59 > 5:20:07in the teaching and excellence rating, top 15 full student
5:20:07 > 5:20:11satisfaction and we should celebrate in particular the approach is that
5:20:11 > 5:20:15the University of Essex has introduced in achieving those
5:20:15 > 5:20:21outstanding student satisfaction results. I think it is important to
5:20:21 > 5:20:25mention them in particular fostering a culture that uses student feedback
5:20:25 > 5:20:28to develop rigorous and stretching teaching that is tailored to suit
5:20:28 > 5:20:34student needs and effective retention strategies, including a
5:20:34 > 5:20:38peer mentoring scheme for all new students and targeted support for
5:20:38 > 5:20:45disabled students supported by the student engagement team. My right
5:20:45 > 5:20:50honourable friend also rightly highlighted the outstanding research
5:20:50 > 5:20:56output, in particular the work with business. As also the Minister for
5:20:56 > 5:21:00skills and apprenticeship, I particularly welcome mat. It is
5:21:00 > 5:21:05critical as we look ahead. Also very impressed with the work with the
5:21:05 > 5:21:08county council. Essex is without doubt an example to other
5:21:08 > 5:21:12universities. They must take student satisfaction seriously, they must
5:21:12 > 5:21:18take value for money seriously and it is paramount to this Government
5:21:18 > 5:21:22that students are rightly put at the heart of the system. The office for
5:21:22 > 5:21:26students will be the new regulator, putting the interests of students at
5:21:26 > 5:21:31its heart, and it will be innovative. It's a bit of a
5:21:31 > 5:21:35Government type word that, but it truly will be innovative in its
5:21:35 > 5:21:41approach to student participation success and employability. The
5:21:41 > 5:21:45reforms will help promote the significant value that universities
5:21:45 > 5:21:50can offer their local communities and the economy, including by
5:21:50 > 5:21:54promoting outreach initiatives, and you have heard from me and from I
5:21:54 > 5:21:57honourable friend, there is no doubt that Essex is doing that
5:21:57 > 5:22:05significantly. My honourable friend raised some specific issues about
5:22:05 > 5:22:16Brexit and I think there are a couple of things I should cover. He
5:22:16 > 5:22:18mentioned, I would like to say that we have asked the independent
5:22:18 > 5:22:23migration re-advisory service to report on two things. The impact of
5:22:23 > 5:22:25Brexit on the Labour market and on the EU and international students.
5:22:25 > 5:22:32They will report by 2018 but it is -- it is possible that they have the
5:22:32 > 5:22:35power to provide interim reports and I am sure my honourable friend, if
5:22:35 > 5:22:40he feels it is necessary, will ensure that happens. With regard to
5:22:40 > 5:22:44finance, we are looking at it but I should also say that it can't be
5:22:44 > 5:22:50considered without also looking at the further education sector. I
5:22:50 > 5:22:55think it's important that both looked at, and particularly when you
5:22:55 > 5:23:00consider our reforms on skills and apprenticeships and the joint work
5:23:00 > 5:23:07that we are encouraging between FC and a cheat. In the meantime, --
5:23:07 > 5:23:11between further education and higher education. In the meantime,
5:23:11 > 5:23:17guarantees on students starting in 2018 to 2019 will remain as before.
5:23:17 > 5:23:22We know this system at the moment is clunky and we are trying to make it
5:23:22 > 5:23:24as streamlined as possible. I honourable friend talked about
5:23:24 > 5:23:30research and there is no doubt about it, that Essex University is really
5:23:30 > 5:23:35leading the way. I'm incredibly impressed. I should also not fail to
5:23:35 > 5:23:40mention my own university in my constituency, the University of
5:23:40 > 5:23:46Surrey, who has also developed, I mean really world leading, efforts
5:23:46 > 5:23:50on research and working with business. The EU Horizon programme
5:23:50 > 5:23:53which lasts till 2020 and in fact there was another successor
5:23:53 > 5:23:58programme, as long as a bid is submitted before we leave the EU,
5:23:58 > 5:24:01the Government will underwrite the costs if Horizon don't continue
5:24:01 > 5:24:06funding. We are bringing together more research councils and we want
5:24:06 > 5:24:12to make sure that LF S and the UK research and innovation work
5:24:12 > 5:24:17together. But right honourable friend is right to mention that
5:24:17 > 5:24:22these things don't simply just happen. We need to make sure that
5:24:22 > 5:24:30those things become a reality. As Minister for women, I was hugely
5:24:30 > 5:24:33impressed with the work on the gender pay gap and I will never miss
5:24:33 > 5:24:38an opportunity to say in this House that all companies with more than
5:24:38 > 5:24:43250 employees have until April next year to report on their gender pay
5:24:43 > 5:24:47gap and there we have it. The University of Essex being a beacon
5:24:47 > 5:24:51on this subject and it is really important, because if we don't get
5:24:51 > 5:24:55this right, we are missing out on the talent and the skills of women
5:24:55 > 5:25:03who can contribute and actually do what they can to make sure that this
5:25:03 > 5:25:06excellence continues. Universities such as Essex are part of our world
5:25:06 > 5:25:12leading higher education sector and what makes it great. That it is open
5:25:12 > 5:25:15to all, it is innovative and critically it offers students a
5:25:15 > 5:25:20choice and value for money. And it puts students at the heart of
5:25:20 > 5:25:24ensuring that continues. I would like to congratulate my honourable
5:25:24 > 5:25:28friend for securing this debate. I probably haven't answered all his
5:25:28 > 5:25:32questions and I have absolutely no doubt that he along with the
5:25:32 > 5:25:36honourable members for Clacton, for Rayleigh and four Colchester will
5:25:36 > 5:25:41continue to not only sing the praises of Essex University, but to
5:25:41 > 5:25:48make sure that as we progress through towards Brexit, that all the
5:25:48 > 5:25:52concerns that universities like Essex have fully reflected in the
5:25:52 > 5:25:56Government's response and actions to us leaving the European Union. Thank
5:25:56 > 5:26:01you, Mr Speaker.Order, the expressions of accommodation and
5:26:01 > 5:26:06support that have flowed over the last 25 minutes for the University
5:26:06 > 5:26:11of Essex well, I know, be deeply appreciated by everyone at the
5:26:11 > 5:26:14University and, indeed, for that matter, by the occupant of the
5:26:14 > 5:26:18chair. I also feel that I can safely say without fear of contradiction
5:26:18 > 5:26:25that the University has earned every word of that commendation and
5:26:25 > 5:26:28support. Colleagues, thank you. The question is that this House do now
5:26:28 > 5:26:38adjourned. I think the ayes have it. The ayes habit. Order, order.