0:00:00 > 0:00:01and in ten and 15 years. We are on track to and lead to achieve 94 and
0:00:01 > 0:00:0693% of what we need to do. I think it is good or that he will achieve
0:00:06 > 0:00:13them.Order. Just before BBD in the urgent question in the name of
0:00:13 > 0:00:16Matthew Penicuik, I do wish to emphasise to the house that it is
0:00:16 > 0:00:23narrowly focused. Colleagues sure will of course I tend to the wording
0:00:23 > 0:00:28and will have already at end of the honourable gentleman's urgent
0:00:28 > 0:00:33question which is on the matter of when the Government will provide
0:00:33 > 0:00:37impact assessments on leaving the European Union arriving from
0:00:37 > 0:00:41analyses provided by the ministers. Questions must focus on that matter,
0:00:41 > 0:00:47not an occasion for a general rerun of Brexit related matters. Of which
0:00:47 > 0:00:55I'm sure... We will meet many examples in the days, weeks and
0:00:55 > 0:00:58months to come but I'm sure colleagues can it extend energy more
0:00:58 > 0:01:04than adequately on the terms of which the honourable gentleman has
0:01:04 > 0:01:10drawn. Matthew Penicuik, urgent question.Thank you. They ask the
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union if you will make a
0:01:13 > 0:01:15statement on when the Government intends to provide the committee on
0:01:15 > 0:01:19exiting the European Union with impact assessment arriving from the
0:01:19 > 0:01:25sectoral analysis carried out by Her Majesty's ministers.Mr Speaker, we
0:01:25 > 0:01:29have this morning laid a written ministerial statement on this issue
0:01:29 > 0:01:32which set out the timeline and the nature of response to last week's
0:01:32 > 0:01:44notion. During the opposition they debate, the Department of the
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Secretary of State Robin Walker told the house there has been some
0:01:47 > 0:01:52misunderstanding as to what this sectoral analysis actually is, it is
0:01:52 > 0:01:57not a series of 58 impact assessments. The Secretary of State
0:01:57 > 0:02:00for exiting the EU made the same point during his appearance before
0:02:00 > 0:02:07the Lord's EU committee of ethics over and during questions on
0:02:07 > 0:02:13November two. Let me clarify exactly what the sectoral analysis is. It is
0:02:13 > 0:02:16a wide mix of qualitative and quantitative analysis contained in a
0:02:16 > 0:02:21range of documents developed at different times since the
0:02:21 > 0:02:25referendum. It means looking at 58 sectors to help inform our
0:02:25 > 0:02:29negotiating positions. The analysis examines the nature of activity in
0:02:29 > 0:02:35the sectors, have a disconnected with the EU currently. -- how trade
0:02:35 > 0:02:39is conducted. And offers alternatives to have we leave the EU
0:02:39 > 0:02:42as well as looking at existing precedents. Our analysis is
0:02:42 > 0:02:48constantly evolving and being updated. It is not and I have never
0:02:48 > 0:02:51been a series of impact assessments are examining the quantitative
0:02:51 > 0:02:57assessment of Brexit on these sectors. -- quantitative impact. It
0:02:57 > 0:03:02will take the Government to collates some -- it will take the Government
0:03:02 > 0:03:08sometime to collate this information in a way that will be presented to
0:03:08 > 0:03:12the committee of your provider as soon as possible. We have made
0:03:12 > 0:03:15claims to the house authorities that he can't they expect this to be no
0:03:15 > 0:03:25more than three weeks.Matthew Penicuik.Here we are again Mr is
0:03:25 > 0:03:29eager. Members from across the house have repeatedly asked that the
0:03:29 > 0:03:32analyses undertaken by a governing the release. On each occasion prior
0:03:32 > 0:03:35to the debate on the motion on Wednesday last week, ministers
0:03:35 > 0:03:40argued that publication of these analyses would compromise the
0:03:40 > 0:03:44negotiating position. An delegation did ministers either argue or
0:03:44 > 0:03:48inferred the information did not exist at this week documents.
0:03:48 > 0:03:52Yesterday in his letter to the charity site committee, that is what
0:03:52 > 0:03:57the Secretary of State argued. Any minister tell his house wide? If the
0:03:57 > 0:04:01information call for does not exist as a series of discrete impact
0:04:01 > 0:04:03assessments, a clear impression that the allied to develop over many
0:04:03 > 0:04:09months that they do. In a response they did 29 September 2017 Tribune
0:04:09 > 0:04:14of information requests admitted to my honourable friend, requesting
0:04:14 > 0:04:20details about the publication of analyses, the teams they did, and I
0:04:20 > 0:04:23quote, a Department for exiting the European Union home the information
0:04:23 > 0:04:27you have requested. In his letter to the charity selling committee, the
0:04:27 > 0:04:29Secretary of State in visit will take time to collate and bring
0:04:29 > 0:04:33together the information the costs on SL by other Government
0:04:33 > 0:04:38departments of any Minister confirm the information given by his
0:04:38 > 0:04:41apartment's team is correct and that the department hold the information?
0:04:41 > 0:04:44If not, can you Minister tell the house by the Department were
0:04:44 > 0:04:48committed to state that the information is held. If it is the
0:04:48 > 0:04:51case that department hold some information but not all, can you
0:04:51 > 0:04:55Minister tell the house what is preventing the information that is
0:04:55 > 0:05:00available from being released to the Brexit committee immediately? Mr
0:05:00 > 0:05:05Speaker, this farce has dragged on for far too long. Ministers cannot
0:05:05 > 0:05:08use semantics and doublespeak to avoid the clear instruction that
0:05:08 > 0:05:12this house as given. There can be no further delay. Ministers just need
0:05:12 > 0:05:20to get on with it.Mr Speaker, the honourable gentleman said an
0:05:20 > 0:05:23impression has been allowed to develop. It was never a purpose to
0:05:23 > 0:05:32allow such an impression to develop. The situation, and if this teacher,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35-- Mr Speaker, is that the Government as I have explained
0:05:35 > 0:05:40carried out a wide range of analysis across the sectors to inform our
0:05:40 > 0:05:43negotiating position. Our purpose is to develop our negotiating capital,
0:05:43 > 0:05:48not to create the kind of stories which the honourable gentleman seems
0:05:48 > 0:05:53to be pursuing. The Government holds a wide range of information across a
0:05:53 > 0:05:56wide range of documents. The information is provided by the
0:05:56 > 0:06:04apartment and collated by my department. -- provided by
0:06:04 > 0:06:08departments. It has never provided quantitative forecasts on those
0:06:08 > 0:06:12sectors. Mr Speaker, what I will say is I think the public will get the
0:06:12 > 0:06:15Labour Party today, look at what they are asking for, they will get
0:06:15 > 0:06:18the kind of narrative of which members opposite of trying to create
0:06:18 > 0:06:30and they will ask, whose side are they on the? Sign John Whittingdale.
0:06:30 > 0:06:38Thank you, as vice-chairman of select committee of leaving the
0:06:38 > 0:06:42European Union, can I thank my friend for his answer? And SAB have
0:06:42 > 0:06:44not actually discuss this matter formally got from my own point of
0:06:44 > 0:06:48view, can I tell him what he has said to this now seems to be
0:06:48 > 0:06:56entirely reasonable.Mr Speaker, I'm very grateful to my honourable
0:06:56 > 0:07:00friend and I believe it is the case that my honourable friend, the
0:07:00 > 0:07:03Secretary of State, has spoken to the chairman of the committee from
0:07:03 > 0:07:06whom I'm sure we will here and I can confirm another meeting has been
0:07:06 > 0:07:14scheduled.Mr Speaker, firstly, I think it's an absolutely astonishing
0:07:14 > 0:07:19that more than 500 days on from the referendum, these are not prepared
0:07:19 > 0:07:22yet. First of all, that is astonishing. If they are scrabbling
0:07:22 > 0:07:29together this in three weeks, were the tide of all. -- will be tied.
0:07:29 > 0:07:38Will he share -- the Secretary of State for leaving the EU intimated
0:07:38 > 0:07:41to the committee and can you confirm what other assessments have been
0:07:41 > 0:07:48made that the regional impact of leaving the European Union as well?
0:07:48 > 0:07:51Mr Speaker, first and foremost I should say this criticism comes from
0:07:51 > 0:07:54a party which decided to leave the United Kingdom without deciding what
0:07:54 > 0:07:59currency it would use. What I would say to him at the sectoral analysis
0:07:59 > 0:08:02has been discussed at the devolved administrations and DJ MC and we
0:08:02 > 0:08:10will give careful consideration as and when we share that information
0:08:10 > 0:08:15with the devolved administrations. -- the JMC. The information we have
0:08:15 > 0:08:19now does not and have never comprised of quantitative forecast
0:08:19 > 0:08:29of impact not an sectors or on any region.This is a storm in a teacup.
0:08:29 > 0:08:34Given the extent of analysis, time frame seems reasonable given the
0:08:34 > 0:08:37incomplete picture presented, the opposition would be the first to
0:08:37 > 0:08:40criticise it and suggest you are hiding something. What I also
0:08:40 > 0:08:46suggested we should not want to weaken our negotiating hand.I'm
0:08:46 > 0:08:51grateful to my honourable friend, he is exactly right. It is the day is
0:08:51 > 0:08:54to go forward and maximise our negotiating capital in order to
0:08:54 > 0:09:00deliver the best possible deal for all people in the United Kingdom.
0:09:00 > 0:09:07Thank you very much. We now know what this material consists of what
0:09:07 > 0:09:12I am concerned to read in the letter the Secretary of State sent to me
0:09:12 > 0:09:17that ministers now intend, and I quote, to collate and bring together
0:09:17 > 0:09:21this information in a way that is accessible and informative for the
0:09:21 > 0:09:27committee. Mr Speaker, I would expect the committee to receive
0:09:27 > 0:09:33these documents in the form they were when the motion was carried. In
0:09:33 > 0:09:43other words, an amended. As I lay clear my to the secretary of state,
0:09:43 > 0:09:46it is for the committee to decide in what form they are published. -- not
0:09:46 > 0:09:55amended. Any Minister confirm that is what will happen and there will
0:09:55 > 0:10:02be no further Anju Delay? -- undue delay?It is commercially sensitive
0:10:02 > 0:10:06material and contains material which is relevant to our negotiating
0:10:06 > 0:10:11position. The hours as previously noted not release information which
0:10:11 > 0:10:14would be prejudicial to negotiating position. What I would say to the
0:10:14 > 0:10:18honourable gentleman is if we were to give him and the committee the
0:10:18 > 0:10:21original reports which were commissioned at the beginning of the
0:10:21 > 0:10:25department's live, he would find that material was now incomplete and
0:10:25 > 0:10:29out of date. It is our intention to satisfy the motion by providing him
0:10:29 > 0:10:37information which is relevant and timely.
0:10:37 > 0:10:40The minister does themselves no favours by treating a privately
0:10:40 > 0:10:44legitimate requests by the sovereign parliament for information about the
0:10:44 > 0:10:49most important negotiations to affect this country for decades by
0:10:49 > 0:10:54turning it into a partisan matter. In the Secretary of State's letter
0:10:54 > 0:11:01to the right honourable gentleman, he talks about a wide mix of
0:11:01 > 0:11:05qualitative and quantitative analysis. And presumably one part of
0:11:05 > 0:11:08that is the model the Chancellor of 30 when he gave evidence to the
0:11:08 > 0:11:13Treasury committee recently that there is a cross departmental model
0:11:13 > 0:11:17that looks at different impact of our economy. My understanding is
0:11:17 > 0:11:21that model is available immediately. While that model be disclosed
0:11:21 > 0:11:28immediately?The model to which my right honourable friend has referred
0:11:28 > 0:11:38is not contained within the documents I carefully studied.If
0:11:38 > 0:11:42there is nothing of measure in these documents then what is the point of
0:11:42 > 0:11:49them? On the timing, you were very clear last week after that votes,
0:11:49 > 0:11:53you talked about days not weeks, and was also discussion of ministers
0:11:53 > 0:11:57being in contempt of Parliament. Perhaps you would like to remind the
0:11:57 > 0:12:01minister what the potential sanctions are for a minister found
0:12:01 > 0:12:09in contempt of Parliament?I would say first to him that he has put the
0:12:09 > 0:12:12words of nothing of significance in my mouth will stop I don't think I
0:12:12 > 0:12:17have ever said that. What rising to the House is that this central
0:12:17 > 0:12:21analysis does not contain quantitative rejections of impact as
0:12:21 > 0:12:26the honourable gentleman's vinyl gems question, that is a matter for
0:12:26 > 0:12:34you, I think, Mr Speaker?The motion that has placed passed last week
0:12:34 > 0:12:37without objection referred to the impact assessments arising from
0:12:37 > 0:12:44those analyses, referring to the previous list. I can well imagine
0:12:44 > 0:12:48that these assessments are scattered around different departments and
0:12:48 > 0:12:51different officials are looking at different bits of work and saying
0:12:51 > 0:12:56does this count as one of these assessments or not? I think it would
0:12:56 > 0:13:00be unconscionable for the Government to have come to the House and
0:13:00 > 0:13:03suggested that the Government was not going to apply this motion and
0:13:03 > 0:13:06was not going to release the permission. Can I suggest there is
0:13:06 > 0:13:12some private dialogue with the highly respected chair of the Brexit
0:13:12 > 0:13:17committee on Privy Council terms on how to resolve this without this
0:13:17 > 0:13:19becoming a matter of embarrassment that actually disrupts the
0:13:19 > 0:13:29negotiations?It is our attention to comply the will of the House, but we
0:13:29 > 0:13:33cannot release what we do not have. We will bring up for it material
0:13:33 > 0:13:38which is timely, up to date and informs the Committee. Steps were
0:13:38 > 0:13:49being taken for it to carry out the appropriate meetings. In response to
0:13:49 > 0:13:52detailed questioning, Defra ministers revealed the existence of
0:13:52 > 0:13:56a sectoral analysis for waste and chemical sectors. Given these two
0:13:56 > 0:14:01analyses excess and have been read by ministers, what is preventing
0:14:01 > 0:14:09their immediate publication?The reports I have read on waste and
0:14:09 > 0:14:13chemicals date back to the origins of the Department and our therefore
0:14:13 > 0:14:18as I said earlier, out of date and do not reflect our current thinking
0:14:18 > 0:14:23and we wish to inform the Commitee with the latest information.I
0:14:23 > 0:14:27attended, unlike the minister, I think, the entirety of the debate. I
0:14:27 > 0:14:32have gone back on my phone, looking at the words from the Minister, the
0:14:32 > 0:14:37honourable member for Worcester. I make it absolutely clear, Hansard is
0:14:37 > 0:14:41absolutely clear, in its recollection of that debate. The
0:14:41 > 0:14:47nuts and bolts about it were of rich action. The argument advanced by the
0:14:47 > 0:14:52Government is that there was material within these papers that
0:14:52 > 0:14:54would be commercially sensitive, possibly have some impact on the
0:14:54 > 0:15:00negotiations. With the Minister please take this matter seriously?
0:15:00 > 0:15:04This is a gross content of this place. The Government was
0:15:04 > 0:15:07specifically asked that wasn't going to vote against the motion then what
0:15:07 > 0:15:12was its most receiver problem? Disclose this information properly
0:15:12 > 0:15:18and quickly.What I say is that she's possibly being unnecessarily
0:15:18 > 0:15:24unkind to me. I did attend the entire way. I may have possibly
0:15:24 > 0:15:29slipped out briefly, I may perhaps have to watch the entire video is be
0:15:29 > 0:15:34the cause of the weekend. What I potatoes that has been no suggestion
0:15:34 > 0:15:38of redaction from the Treasury bench, certainly not in the course
0:15:38 > 0:15:44of that debate. They came from the Opposition front bench... She says
0:15:44 > 0:15:49it's not true. The records will show that it was the right honourable and
0:15:49 > 0:15:56learned gentleman from Saint Holborn and St Pancras that stood at the
0:15:56 > 0:16:02dispatch box and in violating his experience as Director of Public
0:16:02 > 0:16:05Prosecutions, and he offered redaction, jesting and summaries,
0:16:05 > 0:16:09and he did that in his opening speech, whatever the honourable lady
0:16:09 > 0:16:14might save.There are times when this Government has the stench of
0:16:14 > 0:16:20death about it. Leaderless, directionless and we learn today
0:16:20 > 0:16:25that their defence is that they are also contentless. But most
0:16:25 > 0:16:27concerning of all is the most APPLAUSE
0:16:27 > 0:16:33Attempt today to come to the House and say that those who ask for this
0:16:33 > 0:16:36information should have their patriotism questioned.
0:16:36 > 0:16:44This will not stand and it cannot be allowed to stand. The House gave the
0:16:44 > 0:16:48minister and instruction. So my question today is to show that in
0:16:48 > 0:16:56this week of oh weeks, a modicum of confidence and pass the studies to
0:16:56 > 0:17:02the Commitee without redaction as soon as possible. We have been given
0:17:02 > 0:17:06an instruction and we are seeking to comply with it and. What I would say
0:17:06 > 0:17:11to him is that there is no question of being content-free, what we need
0:17:11 > 0:17:16to do is draw it together and presented to Commitee in a form that
0:17:16 > 0:17:22is useful. I do think it bears repeating that it is time for this
0:17:22 > 0:17:25House to come together and strife in the national interest after
0:17:25 > 0:17:30implementing the referendum result not to seek after anything which
0:17:30 > 0:17:39would undermine our negotiating capital.When they're published,
0:17:39 > 0:17:43will the inform the negotiations in anyway? And in that respect, as he
0:17:43 > 0:17:53sometimes wonder who is side members opposite are on?I'm grateful to my
0:17:53 > 0:17:57honourable friend. I think it's very, very important that we end
0:17:57 > 0:18:01this House did not do the work of our negotiating partners for them.
0:18:01 > 0:18:05We should go forward in the spirit of friendship, but it is not our
0:18:05 > 0:18:09place to do analysis of our own negotiating capital for our
0:18:09 > 0:18:17partners.I'd actor like to commend the Minister. I thought it was
0:18:17 > 0:18:20impossible for this Government to get more incompetent, but they are
0:18:20 > 0:18:26making a very good go of it. When they release the data, will explain
0:18:26 > 0:18:29why they have done all this analysis and none of it is quantitative,
0:18:29 > 0:18:35because that does not bear any credence whatsoever. You do not
0:18:35 > 0:18:41undertake analysis in the do not check what impact it has.I'm glad I
0:18:41 > 0:18:45so many honourable friends from Scotland, I think that gives a
0:18:45 > 0:18:48statement what the Scottish people think of the competence of his own
0:18:48 > 0:18:55party. What I would say, in so far that there is quantitative analysis
0:18:55 > 0:18:59in the document that I carefully studied, it is a statement of the
0:18:59 > 0:19:04facts as they are known at the time another projects into the future.I
0:19:04 > 0:19:09think most fair-minded people would accept it is reasonable that some of
0:19:09 > 0:19:13this material may not be available until three weeks have expired. But
0:19:13 > 0:19:18Summers material could be available now or sooner than three weeks. For
0:19:18 > 0:19:20my honourable friend assured the House that he will do his best to
0:19:20 > 0:19:23make sure that material which is available before the three-week
0:19:23 > 0:19:31deadline available soon?It is our intention to make available again
0:19:31 > 0:19:33here at and up to date set of information within those three
0:19:33 > 0:19:40weeks. -- a coherent and up to date set of information.I hesitate to
0:19:40 > 0:19:44ask this question, because I have an image on my mind of the most rocking
0:19:44 > 0:19:50up to the office of the right honourable member for at Central
0:19:50 > 0:19:56with carrier bags asking him to sit through them. Nevertheless, can be
0:19:56 > 0:19:58honourable member issue meet that went document is in is made
0:19:58 > 0:20:02available it'll can contain comparative information about the
0:20:02 > 0:20:06sectoral impact of the different forms Brexit that the Government has
0:20:06 > 0:20:12considered but discounted?It's an interesting question, precisely
0:20:12 > 0:20:17because we wish to avoid unnecessary information on the Commitee that we
0:20:17 > 0:20:20wish to take the time necessary to bring together this information and
0:20:20 > 0:20:26an appropriate form. That's what the honourable lady said. The honourable
0:20:26 > 0:20:30lady has asked for comparative economic forecast, but I Bourdy said
0:20:30 > 0:20:32repeatedly that this data does not include quantitative economic
0:20:32 > 0:20:41forecasts.What the Minister has said is perfectly reasonable, but I
0:20:41 > 0:20:48do own, to release the documents in full as soon as possible, because
0:20:48 > 0:20:52redactions only inflame interest. I lived through many of these rows,
0:20:52 > 0:20:55and once these documents are published, they are often found to
0:20:55 > 0:21:00be very long and boring. When parliament phone gets itself
0:21:00 > 0:21:03involves in this odd passion, often travelling is more fun than
0:21:03 > 0:21:08arriving.On his final points, having carefully read the initial
0:21:08 > 0:21:15analysis, I think I can say to him with some certainty I have already
0:21:15 > 0:21:19set of the House that I have read the initial round of analysis. What
0:21:19 > 0:21:25I would say to my honourable friend is that, indeed on this case, I
0:21:25 > 0:21:32think that the arrival will be far less interesting than the journey.
0:21:32 > 0:21:37The House will be handsomely staggered to hear ministers say
0:21:37 > 0:21:43today that it is not the case that the sect analyses exist. This
0:21:43 > 0:21:46secular state said the Prime Minister had seen the summaries. He
0:21:46 > 0:21:51said they comprised excruciating detail and that the apartment and my
0:21:51 > 0:21:54response to every of information requests that the information is
0:21:54 > 0:22:00concluded and as such all the studies Roberto had been concluded.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03Did the Minister confirm what it is the Prime Minister is so when the
0:22:03 > 0:22:11Department does not have an? And get the studies Roberto be released to
0:22:11 > 0:22:19the Select Committee today?The honourable lady is conflating
0:22:19 > 0:22:22certain times. There is sent for analysis, what there is not as a
0:22:22 > 0:22:27quantitative impact analysis forecasting the future. It might
0:22:27 > 0:22:34help the House if I repeat what I said earlier. It has been a wide mix
0:22:34 > 0:22:37of quantitative and positive analysis contained in documents at
0:22:37 > 0:22:40different times since the referendum. It exports the nature of
0:22:40 > 0:22:45action within the sector is how trade is currently conducted within
0:22:45 > 0:22:49the EU and in many cases considered the alternatives after we leave as
0:22:49 > 0:22:57well is looking at existing precedents.The House has clearly
0:22:57 > 0:23:04voted for these papers to be released. My wits advise me not to
0:23:04 > 0:23:07vote against that, so they had to be released. The Minister is trying to
0:23:07 > 0:23:11be helpful in providing additional information. I would say ten that's
0:23:11 > 0:23:16not what the House requires. It requires lots of cardboard boxes
0:23:16 > 0:23:22with the information for the Select Committee to look at the Select
0:23:22 > 0:23:29Committee would then decide what, if any, be published.I am very
0:23:29 > 0:23:32grateful to my honourable friend, but what I would say to him is that
0:23:32 > 0:23:36the information we have enclosed commercially sensitive information.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39It includes information which is material to our negotiating capital
0:23:39 > 0:23:45and an add spice to ministers. I think House must be very careful not
0:23:45 > 0:23:52to establish precedents which occurred coming to court, regret.
0:23:52 > 0:23:57De-escalation for the delay is frankly laughable and wasn't used in
0:23:57 > 0:24:01rejecting my FOI request two weeks ago. His explanation smacks of
0:24:01 > 0:24:06cover-up and smoke screen. He questions which side the Opposition
0:24:06 > 0:24:11are on. We are on the side of the public. When he gains the publishes
0:24:11 > 0:24:14reports, we also publish a report that the public can have which will
0:24:14 > 0:24:20set out exactly for then the cost of the Brexit that he so
0:24:20 > 0:24:27enthusiastically endorses?As I'd not ceased to say, we are not in
0:24:27 > 0:24:31possession of quantitative studies forecasting impact of leading the
0:24:31 > 0:24:38EU. But the public deserve is a hapless House pulled together to
0:24:38 > 0:24:42deliver a result that maximises our negotiating capital, by not
0:24:42 > 0:24:44releasing any information prejudicial to the future of the
0:24:44 > 0:24:50country.
0:24:50 > 0:24:59Am Ali 's analysis do not contain impact analysis, they may contain
0:24:59 > 0:25:02private information. Can reconfirm that the information in these
0:25:02 > 0:25:04reports will be handled appropriately with the public and
0:25:04 > 0:25:11the committee?I'm very grateful to my honourable friend and as I
0:25:11 > 0:25:13understand, anything has already been arranged between the secretary
0:25:13 > 0:25:20of state and the chairman of the committee to do just that.And
0:25:20 > 0:25:25Geordie public on the whole will with common-sense agree this timing
0:25:25 > 0:25:29is reasonable. That's back I'm sure the public. Can I have the Minister
0:25:29 > 0:25:33to make it very clear that these Government. Until you'll be sitting
0:25:33 > 0:25:36up all night to read when there are published, they will make no change
0:25:36 > 0:25:41to the Government policy, the policy of this country that we are leaving
0:25:41 > 0:25:45the European Union, leaving the single market and the customs union?
0:25:45 > 0:25:48Am very grateful to agree with the honourable lady anti-government
0:25:48 > 0:25:53policy is as follows. It follows on from the democratic decision to
0:25:53 > 0:25:57leave the European Union, take back control of our laws, borders, money
0:25:57 > 0:26:04and trade policy and I'm confident we'll make a success of it.You have
0:26:04 > 0:26:09said that this particular question should focus on the issue of when.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11The minister said within three weeks. During that period, the
0:26:11 > 0:26:17select committee will have a proper debate about what they want to see
0:26:17 > 0:26:21and in what format. There is going to Brussels this afternoon will have
0:26:21 > 0:26:28a candy firstly as Guy dropped that what the man is the European Union
0:26:28 > 0:26:33will have and Michel Barnier what plans the commission will have
0:26:33 > 0:26:45supervised the same answers. -- Guy Verhofstadt. No one would want to
0:26:45 > 0:26:49see us damage this type of negotiation with another party.I
0:26:49 > 0:26:58agree with what he said.For members opposite as what size they are on an
0:26:58 > 0:27:00assault exercise has been an exercise in party with management
0:27:00 > 0:27:05over the national interests. The question is party interest on
0:27:05 > 0:27:11national interests, what side are they an? On any issue of timing, I'm
0:27:11 > 0:27:13on the situation of British businesses who have won the Treasury
0:27:13 > 0:27:18that before Christmas in some sectors, they are having to take
0:27:18 > 0:27:20decisions that are potentially irreversible and that worsens in
0:27:20 > 0:27:28quarter one of next year. Is three weeks really a reasonable time frame
0:27:28 > 0:27:33and what could be a reasonable exhalation for such critical
0:27:33 > 0:27:36information not to be held in a way that is readily available and
0:27:36 > 0:27:42readily understood?Mr Speaker, he refers to an exercise in party
0:27:42 > 0:27:45management but I have to just of the last two years I very much enjoyed
0:27:45 > 0:27:55working with members of Labour leader and a Liberal leader. --
0:27:55 > 0:27:58members of Labour Leave and Liberal Leave full the weakening gauge with
0:27:58 > 0:28:04businesses continuing me and I met the sexy yesterday. The answer to
0:28:04 > 0:28:08this question is the weeks reasonable? Yes, -- amid the sector
0:28:08 > 0:28:17yesterday. -- yes, it is reasonable. Further to the question from my
0:28:17 > 0:28:20honourable friend, the member from Boston, is our honourable friend
0:28:20 > 0:28:23aware of any request from the opposition for those EU sectoral
0:28:23 > 0:28:36documents.No, not aware of any such request.The Minister confirmed in a
0:28:36 > 0:28:39response to me on the 13th of September that the department and
0:28:39 > 0:28:46the analysis. He has confirmed two day that he has seen the analysis.
0:28:46 > 0:28:51He has then said that there is no quantitative work that cat is it I
0:28:51 > 0:28:57to the future. The question is why? -- casts an eye to the future. Why
0:28:57 > 0:29:02has that worked not been done to a critical issue? Surely he is in
0:29:02 > 0:29:06contempt of the house and we should repurposed the calibre for his and
0:29:06 > 0:29:15his department heads oche purpose. -- 40 and his department heads's
0:29:15 > 0:29:23purpose.I refer to a range of answers I have already given.Thank
0:29:23 > 0:29:28you. The sectoral announcements as the minister confirms will need to
0:29:28 > 0:29:34be released in relevant timing and have correct information. With the
0:29:34 > 0:29:37Minister agree that neither at resolving this matter to the
0:29:37 > 0:29:45satisfaction of the whole of this house is the most important matter
0:29:45 > 0:29:51and long-term damage to the UK is what no one should be thinking?As I
0:29:51 > 0:29:54said to because of this debate, members of this Government
0:29:54 > 0:29:57parliamentarians first thing we do is to satisfy the house that
0:29:57 > 0:30:01whatever taken hers is the first priority as a department of securing
0:30:01 > 0:30:05the long-term future of this country and it is do this and that they will
0:30:05 > 0:30:11bend all our work.I wonder if he recognises that with his statement
0:30:11 > 0:30:15to date, he has turned fast into a new art form. When the axe what size
0:30:15 > 0:30:20they are on, now can I also says we are on the side of the 29 million
0:30:20 > 0:30:25workers whose livelihoods absolutely depend on the impact of Brexit on
0:30:25 > 0:30:29the UK economy and can he tell us pleased and recognise the is
0:30:29 > 0:30:32treating not only the house with contempt by the British public as
0:30:32 > 0:30:38well.Al tell you and the house what is turning fast into an artform and
0:30:38 > 0:30:44that is blogging about the Greek debt crisis under the hashtag, this
0:30:44 > 0:30:48is a coup and supporting the European Union as this lady has
0:30:48 > 0:30:52done, that takes the public for fools. What I would say to her is
0:30:52 > 0:30:57they are all on the side of the British public, the UK took a
0:30:57 > 0:30:59democratic decision to leave the European Union and he will now carry
0:30:59 > 0:31:08through that decision.When they started are released as a result of
0:31:08 > 0:31:13the opposition Day motion, a key asset well have been handed to
0:31:13 > 0:31:16negotiating partners within the EU. When the minister in winning the
0:31:16 > 0:31:21notion of this house, will you ensure they take as much time as is
0:31:21 > 0:31:23necessary to ensure that the leaky and the Secretary of State continued
0:31:23 > 0:31:30to act in the matter of national interest?We well as they seek to
0:31:30 > 0:31:33satisfy the house and is motion and it is to that end that the Secretary
0:31:33 > 0:31:39of State will be meeting the chairman of the select committee.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42People are increasingly concerned about jobs and the National health
0:31:42 > 0:31:46service. The Minister has given some very confusing information is
0:31:46 > 0:31:52answers to day. Who will be the centre of what the MPs in the public
0:31:52 > 0:31:58are allowed to know about these issues of national importance?The
0:31:58 > 0:32:01element have a proud record on jobs and a proud record on the NHS and we
0:32:01 > 0:32:08will continue to give those issues the first importance.My
0:32:08 > 0:32:11constituents more than this one is Government to get on with delivering
0:32:11 > 0:32:15Brexit and can I say is that what they told me was they were saddened
0:32:15 > 0:32:19that this has had voted as it did because it does not help our
0:32:19 > 0:32:24negotiating position. What they would like this house to get on with
0:32:24 > 0:32:29doing and what they would like his department's officials to get on
0:32:29 > 0:32:34with doing is negotiating our best possible deal rather than spending
0:32:34 > 0:32:40the time facilitating wins of this house.Order! Order! There was an
0:32:40 > 0:32:43unseemly atmosphere in the chamber. I understand the rising passions on
0:32:43 > 0:32:48the subject but as colleagues although I visit schools across the
0:32:48 > 0:32:55country and conduct Skype settings with schools. One question is, why
0:32:55 > 0:32:59do people feel the need to bawl at each other? We ought to set a better
0:32:59 > 0:33:04example to the next generation of leaders. Minister.Mr Speaker, I
0:33:04 > 0:33:08listened carefully to my honourable friends and what I would say is that
0:33:08 > 0:33:11it is the case that officials and ministers will have to spend some
0:33:11 > 0:33:16time on this work over the next three weeks which will of course
0:33:16 > 0:33:18distract both ministers and officials from the negotiation. That
0:33:18 > 0:33:24is regrettable but we take seriously the notion which the house has
0:33:24 > 0:33:27passed and the ways in which I set out, we are seeking to comply with
0:33:27 > 0:33:37it.This is outrageous. Whose side are we on? We are on the side of the
0:33:37 > 0:33:41truth being told. The side of the British people. We are on the side,
0:33:41 > 0:33:46we are on the side of British workers and is not the case that the
0:33:46 > 0:33:50Minister is simply making it up as he goes along and treating
0:33:50 > 0:33:56Parliament and the people of Britain with other contempt.No, it is not
0:33:56 > 0:34:05the case.Thank you. Is the Minister for getting that this time in one
0:34:05 > 0:34:10week, we will have three of 400 amendments before this house and
0:34:10 > 0:34:13does he believe this is a good way to start the committee stage of the
0:34:13 > 0:34:18EU withdrawal Bill?And very conscious of the EU withdrawal Bill
0:34:18 > 0:34:23coming forward. -- I'm very conscious. I would like to begin
0:34:23 > 0:34:27that stage in a positive spirit of collaboration in order to deliver
0:34:27 > 0:34:31any national interest. I have sought to day to give straightforward
0:34:31 > 0:34:34answers to the questions which have been asked and I stand by what I
0:34:34 > 0:34:42have said.Sorry, this is turning into the Government equivalent of
0:34:42 > 0:34:49the dead Parliament sketch. -- dead parrot sketch. We're comprising the
0:34:49 > 0:34:54negotiating hand but could not turn up to vote in the first place. The
0:34:54 > 0:34:56secretary of state said the Scotland offers just that when the basic Tory
0:34:56 > 0:34:59analysis of the impact of the economy of Scotland with regard to
0:34:59 > 0:35:02Brexit existed and had been shared with the Scottish Government. Could
0:35:02 > 0:35:07I have him does that exist or does it not? When will they release that
0:35:07 > 0:35:13information?As I have said throughout this urgent questions, we
0:35:13 > 0:35:17are not in possession of qualitative forecasts of the impact of Brexit.
0:35:17 > 0:35:20We are in possession of sectoral analysis and it is that which we
0:35:20 > 0:35:27will be reworking on in order to satisfy the motion.It is very, very
0:35:27 > 0:35:31simple. Parliament has told the Government to hand these documents
0:35:31 > 0:35:37over to the committee. The governing extracts it is a binding resolution
0:35:37 > 0:35:42of the house and will have to do it. The Government except the things
0:35:42 > 0:35:45exist because the Minister said he has read them and the Prime Minister
0:35:45 > 0:35:51has read the outlines of them. It is very simple. He has to hand them
0:35:51 > 0:35:55over to the committee and he has to do so any timely fashion but he
0:35:55 > 0:35:58seems to think what he can do in the meantime is rewrite all of these
0:35:58 > 0:36:03documents because they are not good enough. That is not good enough. If
0:36:03 > 0:36:07I might just say to him, it is all very well for him to smack, it is
0:36:07 > 0:36:12all very well for him to sneer at is about patriotism but if you hold
0:36:12 > 0:36:17this housing contempt, he holds the British public in contempt.Mr
0:36:17 > 0:36:22Speaker, there is absolutely no question of us holding the housing
0:36:22 > 0:36:25contempt. We seek earnestly to deliver a tree house what has been
0:36:25 > 0:36:30requested. I say a gain, what I have read the initial analysis which is
0:36:30 > 0:36:34conducted by departments at the beginning of the department and what
0:36:34 > 0:36:38is necessary is to hand to the select committee not out of date
0:36:38 > 0:36:42documents spread across multiple documents reducing at different
0:36:42 > 0:36:46times which is now not representative of our latest
0:36:46 > 0:36:50thinking. We will therefore bring together the right information to
0:36:50 > 0:36:58provide the select committee. Listening to the Minister and his
0:36:58 > 0:37:07slippery evasions... It seems to me that it calls into question why his
0:37:07 > 0:37:12department and he as a minister in this at all. What is the point of
0:37:12 > 0:37:21the Department if it is not doing its job?Order. The honourable
0:37:21 > 0:37:24gentleman is in extremely versatile and extras parliamentarian and
0:37:24 > 0:37:30should not accuse the Minister of slippery evasions because there is a
0:37:30 > 0:37:32connotation there of alleged dishonesty which the honourable
0:37:32 > 0:37:38gentleman normally a good-natured fellow should withdraw. He has
0:37:38 > 0:37:43already got the thrust of this point, withdrawal.Happy to
0:37:43 > 0:37:48withdraw.Well done.And most grateful and I reiterate my
0:37:48 > 0:37:52confidence to answer these questions directly. The purpose of our
0:37:52 > 0:37:55department is to deliver a successful exit from the European
0:37:55 > 0:37:58Union and I have the honourable gentleman nobody opposes that cause
0:37:58 > 0:38:04as he has a long gone but I have to say to that we continue to work with
0:38:04 > 0:38:06all our might to deliver a successful exit from the EU which
0:38:06 > 0:38:14works for everyone.The quantitative assessment that actually count is
0:38:14 > 0:38:19one of the British people and they are determined that -- they
0:38:19 > 0:38:21determined that the Conservatives should not have an overall majority
0:38:21 > 0:38:26in this house and that is why a majority of this house demanded that
0:38:26 > 0:38:28the Minister make these documents available to the select committee.
0:38:28 > 0:38:34It is not beyond the wit of the Minister to be able to negotiate
0:38:34 > 0:38:37with the site committee clerks how confidential information may be
0:38:37 > 0:38:44handled and kept confidential and he should proceed on that basis and
0:38:44 > 0:38:48negotiate how these documents can be handled, just exactly what is it he
0:38:48 > 0:38:51fears that the site committee members will do with the
0:38:51 > 0:38:56confidential information?As I explained earlier, understand that
0:38:56 > 0:38:58the Secretary of State has made arrangements to meet the chair
0:38:58 > 0:39:04select committee to these matters. Thank you. We are currently fighting
0:39:04 > 0:39:07for the survival of the Vauxhall car plant in my constituency and we're
0:39:07 > 0:39:11working to come up with a plan for the future. Brexit is a huge part of
0:39:11 > 0:39:16that. We'll be Minister share as much as he can as soon as he can
0:39:16 > 0:39:21limit any impact he has seen on the automotive sector?We would like to
0:39:21 > 0:39:25get on with delivering the best possible deal for his constituents
0:39:25 > 0:39:29and you'll country. It's why we have constantly sought to get onto
0:39:29 > 0:39:32talking about the future relationship and I will undertake to
0:39:32 > 0:39:39come and visit at part with him at the business of the house allows.Mr
0:39:39 > 0:39:44Speaker, this is astonishing, dizzying levels of theatre from this
0:39:44 > 0:39:51Government. We have had all sorts of Brexit. We now see an improv Brexit
0:39:51 > 0:39:56ahead of us, improvising and making it up as you go along. No tangible
0:39:56 > 0:39:59appreciation but away from here Brexit is being played out in
0:39:59 > 0:40:07everyday lives with a first for practical guidance to Brexit. -- a
0:40:07 > 0:40:11thirst. Three weeks seems enough time to make it up and I quote from
0:40:11 > 0:40:17we shall not publish to it is not the case that these exist. What is
0:40:17 > 0:40:23the Government's -- what is the Government's quantitative analysis
0:40:23 > 0:40:26actually quantify?As I said earlier, the quantitative analysis
0:40:26 > 0:40:30which is in the documents which we have and which I have studied
0:40:30 > 0:40:38reflect conditions at the time there were written.
0:40:38 > 0:40:52Urgent question,.To ask the secular state for International Development
0:40:52 > 0:40:55Secretary woman make a statement on the circumstances surrounding the
0:40:55 > 0:41:05meetings in Israel and August 2017? Mr Speaker, may I start by
0:41:05 > 0:41:09explaining the Secretary of State is on a prearranged Government visit to
0:41:09 > 0:41:14Africa to focus on how we're breaking down barriers. She's
0:41:14 > 0:41:25presently in the air. She's on a prearranged visit to Africa to focus
0:41:25 > 0:41:32on how we're breaking down barriers to trade, helping African countries
0:41:32 > 0:41:35achieve their development ambitions, reducing dependence on aid and
0:41:35 > 0:41:39building Britain's trading partners of the future. I welcome the
0:41:39 > 0:41:44opportunity to update the house I am on the Secretary of State as my trip
0:41:44 > 0:41:48to Israel earlier this year. The secondary statement of public
0:41:48 > 0:41:51segment yesterday in that she explained she had the opportunity to
0:41:51 > 0:41:54meet a number of people and organisations in Israel. A list of
0:41:54 > 0:41:59who she met and what was covered was published in yesterday's statement.
0:41:59 > 0:42:04The Secretary of State realises, in hindsight, these meetings were not
0:42:04 > 0:42:07arranged following the usual procedures and she has apologised
0:42:07 > 0:42:13for that. The Foreign Office has said that UK interest were not
0:42:13 > 0:42:17damaged or affected by the meetings on this visit. I hope, therefore,
0:42:17 > 0:42:22that honourable members will now agree that he has made that apology,
0:42:22 > 0:42:26published details of the meetings, and we should avatar that and move
0:42:26 > 0:42:35on.I thank the Minister for being here, but it's simply unacceptable
0:42:35 > 0:42:38that the Secretary of State is not here before the house firm and so
0:42:38 > 0:42:45this question and explain herself. The British public outrage that the
0:42:45 > 0:42:52Secretary of State held 12 meetings in Israel, including whether
0:42:52 > 0:42:54Israel's Prime Minister, Netanyahu, without telling either the Foreign
0:42:54 > 0:42:57Office or the Prime Minister. And was accompanied by a pro-Israeli
0:42:57 > 0:43:04lobbyist. She then misled the British public the Commons yesterday
0:43:04 > 0:43:13that yesterday she finally corrected. It is now known that she
0:43:13 > 0:43:16met her Israeli counterpart last week without even knowing about the
0:43:16 > 0:43:20secret meeting in August. We now know that the credit status applied
0:43:20 > 0:43:23pressure to her department to divert humanitarian funding to the Israeli
0:43:23 > 0:43:32army. So will the Minister tell the House exactly what was discussed in
0:43:32 > 0:43:36the secret meetings and exactly what pressure the Secretary of State
0:43:36 > 0:43:42applied on her department when she returned to the UK? It is hard to
0:43:42 > 0:43:46think of them all black and white case of breaking the ministerial
0:43:46 > 0:43:51code of conduct. But rather than change the Minister, the Prime
0:43:51 > 0:43:55Minister somehow decided last night that it is the ministerial code it
0:43:55 > 0:44:01self that needs changing. We have a Prime Minister who has lost her
0:44:01 > 0:44:06authority and her control of the classroom. Does the Minister accept
0:44:06 > 0:44:11it is time the Secretary of State either faces a Cabinet Office
0:44:11 > 0:44:21investigation, or does the decent thing and just resigning?First of
0:44:21 > 0:44:24all, I again repeat that the Secretary of State is already on her
0:44:24 > 0:44:30way to Africa, a prearranged visit, and she's already flying. Not
0:44:30 > 0:44:36possible to deal with the question, but that's why I'm here, and the
0:44:36 > 0:44:40Secretary of State published a statement yesterday with an apology.
0:44:40 > 0:44:46Let me take the honourable lady's questions as she produced then. The
0:44:46 > 0:44:50Foreign & Commonwealth Office was informed of the Secretary of State's
0:44:50 > 0:44:55visit during the course of the visit. But not before. The Secretary
0:44:55 > 0:45:00of State has been a very clear and absolute contrite in her statement
0:45:00 > 0:45:02yesterday, she recognises that she should have informed the Foreign
0:45:02 > 0:45:07Office before the visit,, she didn't, that is why the statement
0:45:07 > 0:45:11was made and why she has apologised. She is also in the statement given a
0:45:11 > 0:45:16full details of the meeting she had. They're not verbatim accounts, but
0:45:16 > 0:45:19she gave details of who she saw and the subjects discussed, which I
0:45:19 > 0:45:23think is quite appropriate. I don't think that means they were
0:45:23 > 0:45:27particularly secret meetings, particularly as the Foreign Office
0:45:27 > 0:45:32was aware, during the course of the visit, that she had been seeing
0:45:32 > 0:45:39people in Israel. In relation to the codes, International Development
0:45:39 > 0:45:41Secretary has apologised to the Prime Minister for the handling of
0:45:41 > 0:45:46this matter. The Prime Minister has accepted her apology. The Foreign
0:45:46 > 0:45:48Office was aware of a visit to Israel while it was under way, and
0:45:48 > 0:45:53the Foreign Office is also clear that UK interests were not damaged
0:45:53 > 0:45:57or affected by this visit. The Prime Minister regards the matter as
0:45:57 > 0:46:05closed. A couple more things, if I may. It you look at who my right
0:46:05 > 0:46:16honourable friend met, from leading politicians to the urgency, Terry in
0:46:16 > 0:46:22aid NGO, work on water farming solar hospital budgets in Africa, a visit
0:46:22 > 0:46:29to save a child's colophon to talk about a coexistence profit. A group
0:46:29 > 0:46:33start-ups with a focus on Africa and that it does the honourable lady
0:46:33 > 0:46:37think that she should not have met these people? All these people are
0:46:37 > 0:46:46perfectly... This is... In I had been in Israel and I have been on a
0:46:46 > 0:46:50two-day visit, I would have wanted a programme just like this. I went out
0:46:50 > 0:46:55the ambassador, of I would. If you look at the quality of meetings, if
0:46:55 > 0:47:01you look at the quality of meetings, whose you saw and what her job is,
0:47:01 > 0:47:05these are all absolutely paramount to that. May I make a last point, if
0:47:05 > 0:47:11I may? The honourable lady racer question press in the department
0:47:11 > 0:47:14afterwards. As the most responsible for the moment in that area, I can
0:47:14 > 0:47:19say two issues were raised on the Secretary of State does not return.
0:47:19 > 0:47:22One was a currently being provided by the Israeli army for those in
0:47:22 > 0:47:25Syria who could not get medical assistance and cross the border in
0:47:25 > 0:47:29order to get it from the IDF, and the other issues you raised was
0:47:29 > 0:47:34whether or not there was room for more corporation between the UK and
0:47:34 > 0:47:40the Israeli aid agency. We looked at both those issues, the Department's
0:47:40 > 0:47:47view is that aid to the IDF is not appropriate, we don't do that. That
0:47:47 > 0:47:50was the advice given to the Secretary of State. We're looking
0:47:50 > 0:47:55hard to see if there is room to a concrete with the Israeli aid
0:47:55 > 0:47:58organisation as we do with others in the region. There was no pressure
0:47:58 > 0:48:01put on the departments, they were pertinent questions to raise on her
0:48:01 > 0:48:06return. She raised in an entirely proper way with the Department and
0:48:06 > 0:48:11with me, as we're dealing with it. She's doing her job as the Roman
0:48:11 > 0:48:13secretary, which is what she's doing today and what those meetings
0:48:13 > 0:48:25disclose.The spotlight is on this place and the proceedings of this
0:48:25 > 0:48:31place and the behaviour of all of us as never before. What people want is
0:48:31 > 0:48:35transparency and accountability. So does my right honourable friend not
0:48:35 > 0:48:40agree with me that it is time, finally, to address the issue of
0:48:40 > 0:48:47access, privileged access and lobbying and funding if we are not
0:48:47 > 0:48:51to have this repeated time and time again? And would he not agree with
0:48:51 > 0:48:56me that all organisations involved with active lobbying of members of
0:48:56 > 0:49:01Parliament and ministers should open their books, be entirely
0:49:01 > 0:49:05transparent, so we can just see who is lobbying to and who is providing
0:49:05 > 0:49:14the funding?Questions about lobbying and transparency are really
0:49:14 > 0:49:17important for the House and important for ministers, which is
0:49:17 > 0:49:20why is important to disclose as the Secretary of State has whose she
0:49:20 > 0:49:27met. Wider questions about lobbying and funding are for others. But I
0:49:27 > 0:49:31think the Secretary of State has been transparent about her visit and
0:49:31 > 0:49:40now she made the statement yesterday and disclose what she has done.I
0:49:40 > 0:49:43shared the member for Edmonton's is stylish and that the Secretary of
0:49:43 > 0:49:48State is not here to defend herself. This current has such little
0:49:48 > 0:49:52credibility left that ministers are now freelancing on foreign policy. I
0:49:52 > 0:49:56wonder the most answer these questions and as we confirm whether
0:49:56 > 0:49:59the Chancellor was briefed about the greatest development in UK aid
0:49:59 > 0:50:03funding was to be given to the Israeli army? What action is the
0:50:03 > 0:50:06Prime Minister taking to ensure this matters investigated in terms of the
0:50:06 > 0:50:12material codes? And does he have faith that the Secretary of State
0:50:12 > 0:50:19still has the ability and credibility to carry on?OK. No, I
0:50:19 > 0:50:23don't think the Chancellor was informed, because it never became a
0:50:23 > 0:50:29policy or chance of being our policy to find the Israeli defence Force.
0:50:29 > 0:50:32Secondly, as I said a month ago, as far as a zero code is concerned, the
0:50:32 > 0:50:37Prime Minister has seen the Secretary of State has apologies
0:50:37 > 0:50:40again for not informing people for hands, and the Prime Minister
0:50:40 > 0:50:45regards the matter as closed, but she is looking to tighten the
0:50:45 > 0:50:56ministerial code. Do have full confidence? Of course I do.When I
0:50:56 > 0:50:58met the Israeli Deputy Prime Minister, he stormed out of the
0:50:58 > 0:51:03meeting. The Secretary of State got a much more cordial reception. Is it
0:51:03 > 0:51:13just because she's a lady? JEERING I'm not sure Mr Speaker in
0:51:13 > 0:51:17it's appropriate for me to answer either how my right honourable
0:51:17 > 0:51:23friend was treated himself or the reception for the Secretary of State
0:51:23 > 0:51:26for International Development and. I'm quite sure both meetings were
0:51:26 > 0:51:37quite proper and appropriate.It was incredibly long list of meetings on
0:51:37 > 0:51:40what I thought was supposed to be a family holiday. Did she have any
0:51:40 > 0:51:45meetings with the Palestinian side, because he will appreciate the
0:51:45 > 0:51:47importance of a wholly balanced approach to the Middle East peace
0:51:47 > 0:51:56process and not a one-sided one. Also she could have delayed her
0:51:56 > 0:52:04departure insurance and courtesy to this House. It is important to know
0:52:04 > 0:52:07which of the Secretary of State or the Foreign Minister has the worst
0:52:07 > 0:52:10relationship. If the premise wasn't so weak, both would have been
0:52:10 > 0:52:16sacked.The Secretary of State says in her statement of yesterday at you
0:52:16 > 0:52:20was on a family holiday between 13 and 25th of August, which is well
0:52:20 > 0:52:26days. She took two days out of that holiday to have a series of meetings
0:52:26 > 0:52:31with Israeli alterations and political people and a number of
0:52:31 > 0:52:40different charities, including Save A Child's Heart which works with
0:52:40 > 0:52:45Israeli and Palestinian children. The list of meetings are published.
0:52:45 > 0:52:49I did not see that she specifically had separate meetings with those
0:52:49 > 0:52:53representing Palestinian interests, but of course, she has met those on
0:52:53 > 0:53:00other occasions. It's a full disclosure of work. She had two days
0:53:00 > 0:53:05kick in the middle of the holiday, which I suspect is not particularly
0:53:05 > 0:53:11unusual is for ministers when they may do other things. But US, of
0:53:11 > 0:53:14course, that the Foreign Office know in advance, which my right
0:53:14 > 0:53:22honourable friend did not, and she has apologies. But the meetings were
0:53:22 > 0:53:28all burst into her work and British interests.Given we now have Foreign
0:53:28 > 0:53:31Office ministers and international wood office ministers whose share
0:53:31 > 0:53:36responsibilities across departments, we have to Secretary of State, is
0:53:36 > 0:53:42right now need to clarify what the position is in relation to ministers
0:53:42 > 0:53:44visiting particular countries, whether we informed the Foreign
0:53:44 > 0:53:47Office about it, whether international development is
0:53:47 > 0:53:55informed about it, so we clear this matter once and from?Personally,
0:53:55 > 0:53:58having been around a bit, I would have the ministerial code would make
0:53:58 > 0:54:02clear what the sequence of events ought to be. I think actually most
0:54:02 > 0:54:07members should let the local embassies mass they're there just in
0:54:07 > 0:54:10case something happens and I think it is reasonable practice that you
0:54:10 > 0:54:17do, sometimes even on holiday. Certainly, if you want to have
0:54:17 > 0:54:21meetings in a country, you need to make it very clear you want to have
0:54:21 > 0:54:25those meetings and get them said up. And I would have thought that was
0:54:25 > 0:54:29the appropriate process. Again, my right honourable friend has said
0:54:29 > 0:54:33clearly she did not do that and has apologised for not doing that. I
0:54:33 > 0:54:43suspect somebody will not be doing this for a very long time. It's real
0:54:43 > 0:54:47shame it'sthe Minister acting as an original to hear, and every reflect
0:54:47 > 0:54:50later he will not be proud of what he has done today. The honest truth
0:54:50 > 0:54:55of the matter is that if the Secretary of State had said in this
0:54:55 > 0:54:58House what do you said in public last week when she misled the
0:54:58 > 0:55:06public, by now she would be referred to the committee on. I honestly say
0:55:06 > 0:55:09there is either a Government which has collective responsibility in
0:55:09 > 0:55:12which people talk to one another before they meet intentionally
0:55:12 > 0:55:15significant other people and other governments, where there isn't a
0:55:15 > 0:55:21Government. And there isn't around, it hasn't question of whether she
0:55:21 > 0:55:27should resign, it's question of whether this should all resign.
0:55:27 > 0:55:30I thank the honourable gentleman. It is whether this is accepted that she
0:55:30 > 0:55:33should have discussed the visit before she went and made very clear
0:55:33 > 0:55:37what she was going to do. In relation to what he said to the
0:55:37 > 0:55:43Guardian last week, again my honourable friend Lewes make clear
0:55:43 > 0:55:45that her words left to misinterpretation and
0:55:45 > 0:55:51misunderstanding which is why she issued the statement yesterday that
0:55:51 > 0:55:56is clarifying matters. You grep not being clear and her language and
0:55:56 > 0:55:58that is appropriate. I feel that as a personal readable thing I have
0:55:58 > 0:56:03been asked to do to day she carries on her work as international
0:56:03 > 0:56:08secretary abroad and would not be here.Then I welcome the apology
0:56:08 > 0:56:14that is being given by the Secretary of State and my honourable friend
0:56:14 > 0:56:18will understand the importance that we often come to this issue on
0:56:18 > 0:56:25history and positions that are taken. Especially in terms of the
0:56:25 > 0:56:29issue around Israel and the Secretary of State as strong
0:56:29 > 0:56:34supporters of Israel. When they get into those positions and the whole
0:56:34 > 0:56:37of Government policy, my honourable friend would understand just how
0:56:37 > 0:56:44important it is to understand perspectives around this conference
0:56:44 > 0:56:48that is at the heart of problems around the Middle East. He is
0:56:48 > 0:56:55probably the most equipped of her Minister's -- of her ministers to
0:56:55 > 0:56:59take on this issue at hand. I hope he does. I'm grateful to my
0:56:59 > 0:57:05honourable friend and appreciate that he welcomes my honourable
0:57:05 > 0:57:12friend's apology. He's right. Many people in the south have history in
0:57:12 > 0:57:19relation to this terrible long-standing conflict. -- those in
0:57:19 > 0:57:22ministerial positions have to be careful that whatever their
0:57:22 > 0:57:24background is they apply themselves honestly and objectively to your
0:57:24 > 0:57:27shoes they deal with anything real tragedy is out. We cannot pretend we
0:57:27 > 0:57:32did not have affiliations but we do make sure that when we are acting in
0:57:32 > 0:57:37UK interest on a UK foreign policy, that is organising life and nothing
0:57:37 > 0:57:41else. I've seen nothing to suggest the Secretary of State takes a
0:57:41 > 0:57:49different view.The Minister said that the Foreign Office were made
0:57:49 > 0:57:53aware of the Secretary of State's visit to Israel during her visit.
0:57:53 > 0:57:59Can he give us more information about when the Foreign Office were
0:57:59 > 0:58:06made aware? Was before or after meetings with Israeli ministers and
0:58:06 > 0:58:09politicians and at what level were the Foreign & Commonwealth Office
0:58:09 > 0:58:12may allow? Was that because someone in the embassy found out or is it
0:58:12 > 0:58:20because the Secretary of State told a London that she was in Israel?My
0:58:20 > 0:58:24understanding is that the foreign Commonwealth office officials became
0:58:24 > 0:58:29aware of the Secretary of State from development 's private visit, my
0:58:29 > 0:58:33right honourable friend's visit on the 24 the longest during the course
0:58:33 > 0:58:40of her visit. I don't have the dates of all the meetings. I suspect it is
0:58:40 > 0:58:46after the meetings to place but I believe it was my honourable
0:58:46 > 0:58:52friend's who told the official she was there and she was having the
0:58:52 > 0:59:00visit. That is my understanding of the case. Has guidance now been
0:59:00 > 0:59:02reissued to ministers and Secretary of State that they should not feel
0:59:02 > 0:59:06as an foreign policy when they are on holidays or indeed on policy in
0:59:06 > 0:59:14relation to any ligament department with a without Tory donors present?
0:59:14 > 0:59:19Well, the Prime Minister said yesterday that the ministerial code
0:59:19 > 0:59:25be tightened in relation to this. I'm quite sure it will be. The
0:59:25 > 0:59:28common sense of what we are all talking about is very clear and that
0:59:28 > 0:59:32is where my honourable friend recognises she should have done this
0:59:32 > 0:59:37differently as I'm sure we all would if we were in a similar position.
0:59:37 > 0:59:42The Minister has been very clear neither his department of the home
0:59:42 > 0:59:48Department knew about these meetings. They said they weren't set
0:59:48 > 0:59:52up in the usual way. Could you tell us how they were set up and in
0:59:52 > 0:59:56relation to my friend from Milton south's question when he said the
0:59:56 > 1:00:01Foreign Office were made aware of these meetings, is it very important
1:00:01 > 1:00:04that the question is clarified? Because if they knew beforehand,
1:00:04 > 1:00:07with any attempt made by the embassy to actually attend these meetings
1:00:07 > 1:00:16and make sure the minister new responsibilities?Again, as far as
1:00:16 > 1:00:25I'm aware, no officials sought to attend the meeting and I think what
1:00:25 > 1:00:29I said earlier, the Foreign Office was aware of the visit after they
1:00:29 > 1:00:37had taken place because that seems to be appropriate thing but again,
1:00:37 > 1:00:41the root of this is that my honourable friend knows that she
1:00:41 > 1:00:45should have told the embassy and the Foreign Office in advance. I'm
1:00:45 > 1:00:50sorry, I thought I did say clearly what I understand to be the sequence
1:00:50 > 1:00:56of events. The meetings were set up by Lord Pollock through his contacts
1:00:56 > 1:01:04and interests with Israel which are widely known.It appears to me that
1:01:04 > 1:01:08there is a growth of the existing ministerial of conduct and every
1:01:08 > 1:01:12code of conduct are seen as a minister of some nine years standing
1:01:12 > 1:01:16in previous Government, I would have thought this was a resigning matter.
1:01:16 > 1:01:21Can the minister who have a lot of respect for explain whether or not
1:01:21 > 1:01:25he has just said no officials attended, can you explain whether
1:01:25 > 1:01:31the Secretary of State has divided a full minutes to his department at
1:01:31 > 1:01:33the Foreign Office, the Prime Minister of the content of the
1:01:33 > 1:01:37meetings that she appears to be attended alone without any official
1:01:37 > 1:01:43attendance to try and fulfil this appalling gap she has created?My
1:01:43 > 1:01:47honourable friend has supplied a statement yesterday a list of those
1:01:47 > 1:01:56meetings and the subjects covered. She has spoken... I don't think
1:01:56 > 1:02:01anybody would expect a verbatim account of those meetings and she
1:02:01 > 1:02:04has spoken both to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office and to the Prime
1:02:04 > 1:02:09Minister about them. Again, drawing attention to the house these
1:02:09 > 1:02:12meetings which range from the foreign ministry, the Prime Minister
1:02:12 > 1:02:15for the sake of Israel, the Minister of Public Security information and
1:02:15 > 1:02:21should eject affairs and several charities, I don't think there is
1:02:21 > 1:02:24anything in this programme that anyone interested in the subject of
1:02:24 > 1:02:28Israel and the Middle East would have any quibble with. The
1:02:28 > 1:02:32difficulty was the meetings were not spoken about in advance that my
1:02:32 > 1:02:36right honourable friend recognises that none of these meetings would be
1:02:36 > 1:02:40considered in any way onto wards as having taken place. That is why the
1:02:40 > 1:02:45Prime Minister and Foreign Office are satisfied there are any UK's
1:02:45 > 1:02:48interest and nothing has happened which is detrimental to the UK's
1:02:48 > 1:02:57interest.Eyes feel for the Minister being sent you to answer these
1:02:57 > 1:03:00questions but identikit is unreasonable to expect the Minister
1:03:00 > 1:03:04to arrive being able to furnish the house in full detail about what was
1:03:04 > 1:03:09disclosed, to whom, when and under what circumstances and the Minister
1:03:09 > 1:03:14says he has. In response to the question from my honourable friend,
1:03:14 > 1:03:23the member for -- and the member for North West Durham, North Durham. He
1:03:23 > 1:03:29has not been able to provide accurate and factual responses about
1:03:29 > 1:03:37who was met and about... Stop waving bits of paper just for one moment at
1:03:37 > 1:03:41getting hot under the collar. The key questions are, at what point was
1:03:41 > 1:03:48the Foreign Office informed. What were they informed about, was at the
1:03:48 > 1:03:52full-scale meetings and the content, and at what stage and what
1:03:52 > 1:03:56circumstances? I think that is the key question. Finally if I may,
1:03:56 > 1:04:00there has been some controversy around the issue with the IDF, was
1:04:00 > 1:04:05discussing findings with regard to those meetings? If so it was not
1:04:05 > 1:04:18disclosed.The reason I held the piece of paper is this is the what
1:04:18 > 1:04:24was held yesterday. It is not a verbatim account of what it is
1:04:24 > 1:04:29pretty detailed as do the things that she discussed. The embassy... I
1:04:29 > 1:04:33gave the answer to the honourable gentleman that the embassy was aware
1:04:33 > 1:04:38on the 24th of August which I think will be after some of these
1:04:38 > 1:04:45meetings. Very clearly. The details that have been provided in terms of
1:04:45 > 1:04:51who was met and what was said but again, I'm sure colleagues don't
1:04:51 > 1:05:00believe that discussing with the programme for global evasion,
1:05:00 > 1:05:02discussing the emergency humanitarian aid and the work that
1:05:02 > 1:05:10they do, the visit to save a child's heart, if I have is in Israel on
1:05:10 > 1:05:14development terms, I would be looking to have exactly the same
1:05:14 > 1:05:23meetings. The root of this is not having disclosed first of all, that
1:05:23 > 1:05:26is what the concern is, that is what my honourable friend has addressed
1:05:26 > 1:05:29and that is at the heart of the concern but the details of the
1:05:29 > 1:05:38meetings have been made clear in a statement.Thank you. The deputy
1:05:38 > 1:05:44Leader of the House earlier was accusing members of the front bench
1:05:44 > 1:05:50opposite of pursuing this little in the league and I Israel. I freely
1:05:50 > 1:05:55admit that I have some profound disagreements with some of the
1:05:55 > 1:06:00perspectives on this conflict from some of my colleagues on this side
1:06:00 > 1:06:04but let me say to him and to everyone in the south, as a fuller
1:06:04 > 1:06:11proud chair of Labour friends of Israel, I have full by what has
1:06:11 > 1:06:17happened and the Minister is indeed right that these meetings involve
1:06:17 > 1:06:22themselves with not a heinous thing about the lack of accountability is
1:06:22 > 1:06:27highly suspect. The Prime Minister...It is a most interesting
1:06:27 > 1:06:34and engaging statement but we are teetering on the brink of the
1:06:34 > 1:06:44question.Does he not agree that it is beyond credibility that the
1:06:44 > 1:06:49secretary thought it would be an appropriate use of public funds to
1:06:49 > 1:06:56pay... Divert UK funds to the Golden Heights? This is surely an example
1:06:56 > 1:07:07of the development secretary... Apologies. The development secretary
1:07:07 > 1:07:10seeking position within the Conservative Party and bringing the
1:07:10 > 1:07:19country into disrepute.Marked as my friend and would not expect me to
1:07:19 > 1:07:23defend any suggestion that this is being pursued because of an Israel
1:07:23 > 1:07:26angle, it is a perfectly legitimate question for the honourable lady to
1:07:26 > 1:07:31have raised because the substance of it is already a ministerial apology.
1:07:31 > 1:07:35As you know, my honourable friend except she got the sequence wrong
1:07:35 > 1:07:40and should have done something differently so I except the question
1:07:40 > 1:07:42in a perfectly straightforward way and I think it is then a stretch to
1:07:42 > 1:07:47say that having learned on that trip if my honourable friend didn't
1:07:47 > 1:07:51already know of the work of the Israeli army in looking after those
1:07:51 > 1:07:58from Syria who cannot get medical aid for their acute injuries in
1:07:58 > 1:08:02Syria and come across the border, and that aid is properly and freely
1:08:02 > 1:08:06given by the Israeli defence Force, that she should not have come back
1:08:06 > 1:08:09and thought this was an extraordinary humanitarian gesture,
1:08:09 > 1:08:12is anything we should do about this? To which the ad is known for the
1:08:12 > 1:08:16reasons I gave earlier but not to believe that is a perfectly genuine
1:08:16 > 1:08:20question to ask honourable lady carrying basis strikes me as
1:08:20 > 1:08:29honestly a bit of a stretch.It is a dismal prospect seen the Minister,
1:08:29 > 1:08:32is how to defend the indefensible in this way and he's doing his very
1:08:32 > 1:08:36best to put a gloss on this in a positive way but could she really
1:08:36 > 1:08:40clarify whether he believes the Secretary of State didn't know or
1:08:40 > 1:08:44didn't care that when she offered to make a financial assistance
1:08:44 > 1:08:48available to the Israel defence Force, tea that settlement, did she
1:08:48 > 1:08:51not know or did she not care that the UK Government does not recognise
1:08:51 > 1:08:58the legality of that? Can you clarify that point?Can I make clear
1:08:58 > 1:09:03to the honourable lady is no question supporting any settlement
1:09:03 > 1:09:07around the Golan Heights. What the Israeli Defence Secretary does is
1:09:07 > 1:09:12that they find civilians in Syria who come to them with their injured
1:09:12 > 1:09:19who cannot get help on the outside of the border and aspirin for
1:09:19 > 1:09:23medical help from the defence Force which they give. It's an
1:09:23 > 1:09:26extraordinary humanitarian act and has been going on for some time. My
1:09:26 > 1:09:31honourable friend, I don't think was unreasonable to get this work that
1:09:31 > 1:09:34is going on and as if there was something the United Kingdom could
1:09:34 > 1:09:39do to assess this. Because the record Golan Heights is occupied
1:09:39 > 1:09:42territory and because they cannot support Israeli occupation of to
1:09:42 > 1:09:46give any support, the answer to your query was no but I think it entirely
1:09:46 > 1:09:50reasonable for her to come back and have thought about it and of course
1:09:50 > 1:09:56the Department provided the appropriate answer.
1:09:56 > 1:09:59Does the Minister understand the concerns the public will have when
1:09:59 > 1:10:05it seems that British foreign policy on Israel and Powell Steyn is being
1:10:05 > 1:10:09run by Conservative-Link lobby group are not the civil service of the
1:10:09 > 1:10:12Government. Is this not just another example of the Government in
1:10:12 > 1:10:17disarray with lobby group is not a Downing Street running our country?
1:10:17 > 1:10:21And finally, if I may, has the Minister been referred for the
1:10:21 > 1:10:31mysterious code of conduct to Sally Allen?The short answer to the
1:10:31 > 1:10:34second part of a statement is no, because the Prime Minister considers
1:10:34 > 1:10:41the matter closed. The answer to the first part of the question is that
1:10:41 > 1:10:48it's palpably obvious that the attitude towards Israel is not made
1:10:48 > 1:10:53by the lobby group, but by the Government. Since my right
1:10:53 > 1:11:00honourable friend returned from Israel, support for West Bank and
1:11:00 > 1:11:04the urgency appeal from Gaza has come from international development.
1:11:04 > 1:11:08So ministers quite properly make the policy informed by lots of people,
1:11:08 > 1:11:15but they make the policy, not lobbyists.It feels like another
1:11:15 > 1:11:17case of shooting the manager, but are we supposed to believe,
1:11:17 > 1:11:23according to the Minister that the Secretary of State had meetings were
1:11:23 > 1:11:27so beneficial and worthwhile, but she didn't fill a brief what do you
1:11:27 > 1:11:32came back, it's never come up and Parliamentary questions at all? Also
1:11:32 > 1:11:37she is so incapable of carrying out her role, but were also to believe
1:11:37 > 1:11:41it was a good idea to get IDF money in the Golan Heights, but we can't
1:11:41 > 1:11:53because we don't as dieters legitimate territory. I ask one
1:11:53 > 1:11:58question on on the subject of villages, where they raise about
1:11:58 > 1:12:03concerns about international aid money?I can't answer the last part
1:12:03 > 1:12:06of the honourable gentleman was my question because I don't have the
1:12:06 > 1:12:11verbatim account of all meetings. Then I can say the Secretary of
1:12:11 > 1:12:14State is firmly behind the Government's policy which is to
1:12:14 > 1:12:20oppose demolitions in occupied villages and the policy hasn't
1:12:20 > 1:12:25changed in relation to that. In relation to the issue of the IDF,
1:12:25 > 1:12:30the Secretary of State should see, as we all have, my right and wrong
1:12:30 > 1:12:36friends should see, rather, there is viable work going on to provide,
1:12:36 > 1:12:39Terran assistance and say people from debt they would have suffered
1:12:39 > 1:12:46if they had not been treated. Wherever that support has come from,
1:12:46 > 1:12:49with the UK be able to contribute to that, that strikes me as a
1:12:49 > 1:12:54reasonable request. We cannot do it for reasons I have given.The
1:12:54 > 1:12:57Minister speaks from that dispatch box, the issues become less QI
1:12:57 > 1:13:04rather than more. It seems to me the Secretary of State informed the
1:13:04 > 1:13:08Foreign Office her trip the day before she left committing to me
1:13:08 > 1:13:13because she got caught. In the interests of transparency, could the
1:13:13 > 1:13:16Minister provide the full timeline of her trip to Israel, when she met
1:13:16 > 1:13:21the organisation she met, and that timing should start with the first
1:13:21 > 1:13:26correspondence between the Secretary of State and whoever organised these
1:13:26 > 1:13:30trips and whether she used official legal addresses or unofficial legal
1:13:30 > 1:13:39addresses?OK. Firstly, I have to say my right honourable friend did
1:13:39 > 1:13:44not suddenly contrive a long planned visit to Africa in the course of the
1:13:44 > 1:13:49last 24 hours, I can genuinely reassure... Yes, you did. You
1:13:49 > 1:13:52implied she suddenly found a reason to go to Africa, and that's not
1:13:52 > 1:14:00fair. In relation to other questions, there is no reason why
1:14:00 > 1:14:03further questions may not be asked through written Parliamentary
1:14:03 > 1:14:08questions or the like. If more information is needed. Again, I draw
1:14:08 > 1:14:12the attention, it was a full statement and apology made by my
1:14:12 > 1:14:14right honourable friend who recognise that what she did was not
1:14:14 > 1:14:21the right sequence, the details of who she saw and I'm sure is more
1:14:21 > 1:14:23information is sought by calling so will be answered in the appropriate
1:14:23 > 1:14:36way.We'll get to the honourable gentleman. Very difficult!I also
1:14:36 > 1:14:39have great respect for the honourable gentleman, but even he
1:14:39 > 1:14:45must concede the malt we pull about this affair the murkier it begins to
1:14:45 > 1:14:52sound. Kerry have assurance that apartments will publish a summary of
1:14:52 > 1:15:00all discussions which take place in the month prior to this holiday that
1:15:00 > 1:15:03had any connection to Israel are any organisations in Israel, and can we
1:15:03 > 1:15:06have a summary of all discussion that have taken place within the
1:15:06 > 1:15:13Department since the holiday?The honourable gentleman can ask these
1:15:13 > 1:15:23questions. I have to say we discuss issues relating to Israel virtually
1:15:23 > 1:15:30all the time. As we look at the long-standing relationships between
1:15:30 > 1:15:36them and the aid we get to the West Bank and Gaza for emergency appeals
1:15:36 > 1:15:38and long-standing development programmes. That is all open and
1:15:38 > 1:15:41public and clear. The honourable gentleman would like to ask further
1:15:41 > 1:15:45questions, he can, but the information and support given to the
1:15:45 > 1:15:51area is well-known. And that policy has not changed in anyway since my
1:15:51 > 1:16:00right honourable friend came back.I really feel for the Minister who is
1:16:00 > 1:16:05a very decent man when here's brought here to answer questions
1:16:05 > 1:16:10about significant failings about the Secretary of State who, frankly,
1:16:10 > 1:16:14should be here today. At that meant cancelling or postponing a flight,
1:16:14 > 1:16:18then so be it. Can I press him about when the Secretary of State bust
1:16:18 > 1:16:23formed her own department of these meetings and whether she received
1:16:23 > 1:16:35any advice?I know the Secretary of State... Can I thank her for
1:16:35 > 1:16:40generous remarks, I appreciate it very much. My right honourable
1:16:40 > 1:16:46friend informs the Foreign Office on the 24th of August. If I recall
1:16:46 > 1:16:49rightly, the SCO said to make the matter known tyrant department and
1:16:49 > 1:16:56to the rest of the FCO. It was known at that stage and would seem clear
1:16:56 > 1:17:00that discussions would not held in advance and that is what my right
1:17:00 > 1:17:03honourable friend has apologised for an recognise as she got wrong. That
1:17:03 > 1:17:08is what we have been trying to make clear during the course of the
1:17:08 > 1:17:12statements, as best I can, and also the purpose of a statement
1:17:12 > 1:17:20yesterday.I take the point of order if it relates to these matters? The
1:17:20 > 1:17:26honourable gentleman is nodding. Point of order?I don't wish to
1:17:26 > 1:17:29delay the House, but the Minister has given a number of answers to
1:17:29 > 1:17:33myself and other colleagues whereby there is some lack of quality and
1:17:33 > 1:17:39some uncertainty. Then I seek your advice, Mr Speaker, how can we best
1:17:39 > 1:17:45ensure that the House gets the full facts about the timing of the role
1:17:45 > 1:17:50of the two departments in the period up to, during and at the end of this
1:17:50 > 1:17:55hysteria will private visit to Israel -- ministerial private visit
1:17:55 > 1:18:00to Israel?The answer is that ministers can table questions either
1:18:00 > 1:18:09written or oral or both. If the honourable gentleman is
1:18:09 > 1:18:14dissatisfied, he can, when the House returns next week, seek by one or
1:18:14 > 1:18:21other means of the various types of questions available, attempt to
1:18:21 > 1:18:26procure the information that he seeks. In all likelihood from the
1:18:26 > 1:18:30Secretary of State for International Development woman herself. I am not
1:18:30 > 1:18:34sure that there is, but I will give the honourable Gentlemen at Arms.
1:18:34 > 1:18:41Point of order?Just to clarify, when he gave his statement and
1:18:41 > 1:18:45announced questions, he said the Foreign Office in Israel found out
1:18:45 > 1:18:52about these men things as they were going on. It was quite clear that
1:18:52 > 1:18:59they found out it had actually after taking place. It was just to get
1:18:59 > 1:19:05piracy in terms of when they did find out?In answer to the right
1:19:05 > 1:19:10honourable gentleman, the Minister can Tymon if he wishes, when he was
1:19:10 > 1:19:13first put to him and, effectively acknowledge the likelihood that was
1:19:13 > 1:19:18so. I do think it is regarded as an issue in the course of the
1:19:18 > 1:19:22questioning. The right honourable gentleman reiterated the same point.
1:19:22 > 1:19:28So all of them may not be specificity today about precise
1:19:28 > 1:19:30dates, on the concept involves, I think the right honourable gentleman
1:19:30 > 1:19:35was clear that it is open to members, as I have just said, to
1:19:35 > 1:19:42return to these matters in the normal way through written and oral
1:19:42 > 1:19:46interrogation. And the right honourable gentleman will have to be
1:19:46 > 1:19:50only modestly patient. But I think we should preserve the last words on
1:19:50 > 1:19:55this matter for the Minister of State, who's emollient tone we will
1:19:55 > 1:20:02now hear.I very grateful and will do the best I can with being as
1:20:02 > 1:20:07clear as I can. The information I have is that my right honourable
1:20:07 > 1:20:13friend told Foreign Office officials on the 24th of August that she was
1:20:13 > 1:20:21on a visit. It seems likely that the meetings took place beforehand. And
1:20:21 > 1:20:30that is why, and that is the reason for this statement and her
1:20:30 > 1:20:33expiration yesterday is that she recognises that she should have told
1:20:33 > 1:20:38people beforehand. There's no doubt about that, that is what the
1:20:38 > 1:20:41escalation is for, that's what the statement is for, and's apologised
1:20:41 > 1:20:48for that, and she got that wrong. I don't think there is any lack of
1:20:48 > 1:20:51clarity on the sequence now.I'm grateful to the right honourable
1:20:51 > 1:20:58gentleman. Finally, at this point, point of order?Bearing a mind for
1:20:58 > 1:21:02the Minister has just said and about giving advance notice, wouldn't just
1:21:02 > 1:21:07be nice and rather charming the Secretary of State told you, today
1:21:07 > 1:21:10for instance, that she was going to come and make a statement next
1:21:10 > 1:21:19Monday so all this could be cleared up and around?I always welcome
1:21:19 > 1:21:21communication from the right of the lady who I've known for many, many
1:21:21 > 1:21:29years. If she becomes aware of these matters and wishes to indicate to me
1:21:29 > 1:21:33an intention to come to the House, she's welcome to do so and I would
1:21:33 > 1:21:39welcome it. But that has to be for her to judge. We'll leave it there
1:21:39 > 1:21:48for now. Bagsied question, Mr Stephen twerk? -- urgent question,
1:21:48 > 1:21:57Mr Stephen quake?To make a statement on the escalation of Saudi
1:21:57 > 1:22:06Arabia's blockades on the? Terrier situation in Yemen?I think in first
1:22:06 > 1:22:09answer to the right honourable gentleman, it is, the Secretary of
1:22:09 > 1:22:16State is and therefore apologise for her being on a visit to Africa, let
1:22:16 > 1:22:21me answer the question. Yemen is the world's largest humanitarian crisis.
1:22:21 > 1:22:2421 million people in Yemen are in need of humanitarian assistance.
1:22:24 > 1:22:27There were 10 million in need of immediate help to support and
1:22:27 > 1:22:33sustain life. As the third largest humanitarian donor to Yemen, in the
1:22:33 > 1:22:38UK is already leading the world's response to the crisis in Yemen.
1:22:38 > 1:22:42Whether funding of £150 million this year will provide food for one point
1:22:42 > 1:22:488 million people for at least a month. And clean water and
1:22:48 > 1:22:52sanitation for an expected 1.2 million people. As an holder on the
1:22:52 > 1:22:57Yemen at the item nation Security Council, the UK was responsible for
1:22:57 > 1:23:00a presidential statement this year that called in all parties to
1:23:00 > 1:23:06provide safe, rapid and unhindered access for humanitarian supplies and
1:23:06 > 1:23:11personality all affected governments in Yemen. We continue to call on all
1:23:11 > 1:23:15parties in the conflict to respect and take action accordingly. As the
1:23:15 > 1:23:20Foreign Secretary set out in his statement on Sunday 5th of November,
1:23:20 > 1:23:23the United Kingdom condemns the attempted missile strike on Riyadh
1:23:23 > 1:23:32this Sunday in the most uncertain times. The attacks threaten regional
1:23:32 > 1:23:35security and prolong the conflict. The latest attack diligently
1:23:35 > 1:23:45targeted a civilian area. Met Office recognise the coalition's concerns.
1:23:45 > 1:23:56We also recognise that Bolling Saturday night's attacks... It is
1:23:56 > 1:24:00vital that the country remains open to humanitarian and commercial
1:24:00 > 1:24:06access. The Saudi-led coalition has confirmed they are taken into
1:24:06 > 1:24:08account the provision of humanitarian supplies. We are in
1:24:08 > 1:24:14correlating them to ensure access to commercial supplies continue and our
1:24:14 > 1:24:18ambassadors making this case directly to the Saudi authorities on
1:24:18 > 1:24:26this point. There remains a desperate need for a solution to
1:24:26 > 1:24:30ease the suffering of the Yemeni people and end attacks on
1:24:30 > 1:24:33neighbouring countries. It is vital the situation does not escalate
1:24:33 > 1:24:37further. United Kingdom will continue to work towards a political
1:24:37 > 1:24:41settlement which supports regional stability and calls on all countries
1:24:41 > 1:24:45in the region to support that goal. We will also continue to support our
1:24:45 > 1:24:49partners in the region to protect themselves against security threats.
1:24:49 > 1:24:56Mr Speaker, can I join the minister in condemning the missile strike on
1:24:56 > 1:25:00Riyadh, which has been described by Human Rights Watch as most likely a
1:25:00 > 1:25:04war crime. We have seen alleged violations of international
1:25:04 > 1:25:08humanitarian law on all sides of this conflict. Can the Minister of
1:25:08 > 1:25:13Labour has on progress towards the independent investigation that was
1:25:13 > 1:25:16agreed at the recent UN human rights Council? Can I welcome what the
1:25:16 > 1:25:20minister has said about seeking to bring all parties back to the table
1:25:20 > 1:25:23in Geneva and can he tell us more about what progress is being made
1:25:23 > 1:25:29towards securing a ceasefire, so a political solution can be achieved?
1:25:29 > 1:25:34The scale of the humanitarian crisis in Yemen is truly appalling. The
1:25:34 > 1:25:40cholera outbreak is considered the worst on record and as the Minister
1:25:40 > 1:25:44said, the UN estimates that over 20 million Yemenis are in need of
1:25:44 > 1:25:52humanitarian assistance, with 7 million - 7,000,000- on the brink of
1:25:52 > 1:25:57famine. A Saudi led coalition has now intensified its blockade, with
1:25:57 > 1:26:0590% of Yemen's food coming in imports, this risks making the dire
1:26:05 > 1:26:09humanitarian situation even worse. Does he agree with me that this
1:26:09 > 1:26:12blockade could constitute unlawful collective punishment of the people
1:26:12 > 1:26:18of Yemen? He mentioned the representations that our ambassador
1:26:18 > 1:26:22is making. Can I ask what representations he has made and
1:26:22 > 1:26:25indeed the Foreign Secretary has made to Saudi Arabia to have the
1:26:25 > 1:26:32blockade lifted as soon as possible? Can I, Mr Speaker, urged the
1:26:32 > 1:26:36Minister, urged the Government, to do everything in their power to get
1:26:36 > 1:26:43this inhumane blockade lifted.I'm grateful to the right honourable
1:26:43 > 1:26:47gentleman and the chair of the International development select
1:26:47 > 1:26:51committee for raising this. Let me try and take matters in order.
1:26:51 > 1:26:55Firstly, in relation to reaction to the incident, we shouldn't in any
1:26:55 > 1:27:00way mistake the intent of the direction of this particular missile
1:27:00 > 1:27:05or where it came from. An Iranian supplied missile to the Hutus,
1:27:05 > 1:27:11deliberately fired towards Riyadh airport with all the implications
1:27:11 > 1:27:16that there might be, that they would take steps to safeguard their
1:27:16 > 1:27:20country and ensure that the flow of missiles into Yemen was further
1:27:20 > 1:27:27checked was not unreasonable. At the same time, as he makes clear, it is
1:27:27 > 1:27:30vital that humanitarian commercial access continues. We have
1:27:30 > 1:27:34consistently urged the coalition to take all reasonable steps to
1:27:34 > 1:27:37facilitate rapid and save access for humanitarian assistance and
1:27:37 > 1:27:43essential commercial imports of fuel and we are actively engaged with the
1:27:43 > 1:27:48coalition and those responsible for humanitarian support in Yemen to try
1:27:48 > 1:27:53and find a way which enables the blockade not to affect the
1:27:53 > 1:27:57humanitarian access but still, of course, safeguard the important
1:27:57 > 1:28:03rights of those in Saudi Arabia who may be under attack. I spoke to the
1:28:03 > 1:28:11Saudi minister on Saturday shortly before the attack took place. I
1:28:11 > 1:28:15intend to speak to him again either today or tomorrow and the ambassador
1:28:15 > 1:28:19since Saturday night has been actively engaged in Riyadh in trying
1:28:19 > 1:28:28to deal with these issues. In relation to cholera and
1:28:28 > 1:28:31malnutrition, again, we try to be at the forefront of international
1:28:31 > 1:28:36efforts in both those topics, to provide support to UN agencies who
1:28:36 > 1:28:40are actively involved and will continue to do so, but importantly,
1:28:40 > 1:28:43in relation to the political negotiations, I'm very aware of what
1:28:43 > 1:28:48is happening there. We had a meeting in New York recently, there is
1:28:48 > 1:28:50looking to be another ministerial meeting shortly where we are trying
1:28:50 > 1:28:56to find a pathway through to the descaling of the conflict, but it
1:28:56 > 1:29:03isn't just about the coalition forces, it is about the Houthis and
1:29:03 > 1:29:07those who support them and whether they have any willingness to take
1:29:07 > 1:29:09regard of the appalling condition for the people of Yemen that has
1:29:09 > 1:29:16been caused by their actions in starting the conflict and usurping a
1:29:16 > 1:29:20legitimate, elected Government. Would my right honourable friend
1:29:20 > 1:29:24agree that the UK is playing a leading role in the response to the
1:29:24 > 1:29:28appalling humanitarian crisis in Yemen, as the third largest
1:29:28 > 1:29:31humanitarian donor to Yemen in the world and the second largest donor
1:29:31 > 1:29:39to the UN appeal?I am grateful to my honourable friend for helping to
1:29:39 > 1:29:45make that case. The United Kingdom, whether through its bilateral
1:29:45 > 1:29:52support or through UN agencies, has played as big a part as it possibly
1:29:52 > 1:29:57can. Recently, we announced a £60 million uplift in funding to Yemen
1:29:57 > 1:30:03in September, which took our total funding for this year to £155
1:30:03 > 1:30:07million, as detailed in the earlier part of my statement, in terms of
1:30:07 > 1:30:11supporting millions of people for food, clean water and sanitation and
1:30:11 > 1:30:17towards life-saving interventions. £8 million reallocated specifically
1:30:17 > 1:30:20towards the cholera response also suggests further work is necessary
1:30:20 > 1:30:28and the UK is contributing what it can.I would like to thank the
1:30:28 > 1:30:32Member for Liverpool West Derby for asking this urgent question. The
1:30:32 > 1:30:35escalation of the conflict in Yemen in recent weeks resulted in the
1:30:35 > 1:30:40Saudi led coalition closing all entry bought by land, air and sea
1:30:40 > 1:30:44and represents a particularly alarming development, even in the
1:30:44 > 1:30:49protracted conflict and crisis that is now more than two years old. The
1:30:49 > 1:30:53country is already facing the world's worst ever cholera outbreak
1:30:53 > 1:30:58recorded in history, with over 800,000 cases. Over 20 million
1:30:58 > 1:31:02people are in need of urgent humanitarian assistance. The
1:31:02 > 1:31:07blockading ports will only add to this already humanitarian situation
1:31:07 > 1:31:11and the UK must do whatever it can to make sure we mitigate the impact
1:31:11 > 1:31:17of this new development. With the UK's own actions in mind, will the
1:31:17 > 1:31:21Minister tell us how gifted is responding to this new development
1:31:21 > 1:31:30and what assessments have been made on the operation across Yemen, given
1:31:30 > 1:31:35that other countries such as the US refused to sell arms to countries
1:31:35 > 1:31:41that impose humanitarian blockades. Will Her Majesty's Government now
1:31:41 > 1:31:45also finally re-evaluate their decision to continue selling arms to
1:31:45 > 1:31:52the Saudi led coalition and suspend further arms immediately?I thank
1:31:52 > 1:31:56the honourable lady for her remarks. The first and most important thing
1:31:56 > 1:32:02is to try and ease any impact of the blockade in relation to humanitarian
1:32:02 > 1:32:08access. I returned to the fact that missiles flow into Yemen through
1:32:08 > 1:32:14ports and through other areas, which puts innocent civilians at risk with
1:32:14 > 1:32:18the firing of them both in Yemen and outside and it is not unreasonable
1:32:18 > 1:32:23to seek to make sure that that does not happen. And we stand by those
1:32:23 > 1:32:28who would want to take such measures to prevent that action happening. At
1:32:28 > 1:32:33the same time, making sure that there is appropriate access to
1:32:33 > 1:32:36humanitarian and commercial supplies, and the commercial
1:32:36 > 1:32:40supplies the people as well as the humanitarian aid, it is essential.
1:32:40 > 1:32:43DFID, since the events of the weekend, as part of the Government's
1:32:43 > 1:32:49approach, as of course is made -- made representation and is making
1:32:49 > 1:32:52representation because we want to make sure the agencies we fund at
1:32:52 > 1:32:57the access, but it is a particularly difficult situation in the immediate
1:32:57 > 1:33:01aftermath of something which could have had catastrophic consequences,
1:33:01 > 1:33:05including for UK citizens, had that missile landed on Riyadh airport.
1:33:05 > 1:33:09But she is right to concentrate on the blockade and we shall do all we
1:33:09 > 1:33:13can to press the point that we have to find a way through for increased
1:33:13 > 1:33:19humanitarian and commercial access. In relation to the Arms control
1:33:19 > 1:33:25issues, again, as the house well knows, these are extensively trawled
1:33:25 > 1:33:30over by the Department, we have a rigorous arms control regime in
1:33:30 > 1:33:33place and every request for support is dealt with on a case-by-case
1:33:33 > 1:33:37basis. The Government recently was successful in a legal action in
1:33:37 > 1:33:42relation to that, but that doesn't stop us being very careful about any
1:33:42 > 1:33:45supplies. But the important thing is to end the conflict and that is what
1:33:45 > 1:33:48the United Kingdom is devoted to but all too little attention is given to
1:33:48 > 1:33:54the fact that there are two sides in this conflict and the conflict could
1:33:54 > 1:33:57come to an end tomorrow if the Houthis and those who support them
1:33:57 > 1:34:00would agree to the negotiations that are necessary to end this and Yemen
1:34:00 > 1:34:05can emerge from some years where the people have not been well regarded
1:34:05 > 1:34:07by those who purport to govern them and give them the chance they
1:34:07 > 1:34:14deserve.As the Government made an assessment of the current political
1:34:14 > 1:34:19convulsions going on in Saudi Arabia and, if so, how might that affect
1:34:19 > 1:34:26what we may expect to happen in Yemen?I'm so sorry, Mr Speaker, I
1:34:26 > 1:34:30genuinely missed the first part. Could I ask my right honourable
1:34:30 > 1:34:34friend to repeat?Yes, of course, I was asking whether the Government
1:34:34 > 1:34:37had made an assessment of the current political convulsions going
1:34:37 > 1:34:41on in Saudi Arabia and whether he thought that might have implications
1:34:41 > 1:34:50for the situation in Yemen?Well, if the house has 20 minutes... In an
1:34:50 > 1:34:54ever fascinating region, to add to what we know about the region and
1:34:54 > 1:34:57what is happening in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia at the moment would
1:34:57 > 1:35:03take a little while. Events in Saudi Arabia recently, in terms of the
1:35:03 > 1:35:12Crown Prince, his Highness Mohammed bin Salman, consolidating his
1:35:12 > 1:35:16already strong position, taking action at the weekend in relation to
1:35:16 > 1:35:21corruption as part of his efforts to drive Saudi Arabia forward, the
1:35:21 > 1:35:25vision 2030, which it believes cannot be achieved, the economic and
1:35:25 > 1:35:28social advancement of Saudi Arabia, without dealing with the issue of
1:35:28 > 1:35:31corruption which is so widespread across the region, has clearly had
1:35:31 > 1:35:36an impact by the decision that certain individuals had to be
1:35:36 > 1:35:39arrested and questioned about their activities. Its relevance in
1:35:39 > 1:35:44relation to Yemen on that particular issue is limited, but there is no
1:35:44 > 1:35:49doubt that the impact of the missile strike on Saudi Arabia, in addition
1:35:49 > 1:35:54to the missile strikes that already take place... Again, the house does
1:35:54 > 1:35:57not always concentrate on the number of civilians in Saudi Arabia who
1:35:57 > 1:36:01have already lost their lives because of missiles coming from
1:36:01 > 1:36:04Yemen towards them, but the combination of the two, my right
1:36:04 > 1:36:07honourable friend is right, means we have to work harder to find the
1:36:07 > 1:36:11negotiated solution to the conflict which I believe is all parties now
1:36:11 > 1:36:17seriously want.The scale of the devastation and cruelty as outlined
1:36:17 > 1:36:20by the chair of the select committee and Minister should haunt all of us,
1:36:20 > 1:36:28but I'm afraid he sees his Government's record through rose
1:36:28 > 1:36:33tinted glasses. The Saudi Government has benefited by the sale of £3.8
1:36:33 > 1:36:37billion from this country to them in weapons, yet the Government have
1:36:37 > 1:36:44given only £200 million in aid for Yemen. Can he explain why there is
1:36:44 > 1:36:49such a large disparity there? And should we not, as has been mentioned
1:36:49 > 1:36:52by other members, join countries like Germany and the Netherlands by
1:36:52 > 1:36:58suspending arms sales to Saudi Arabia? Does the Minister not see
1:36:58 > 1:37:02there is an inconsistency in the Government previously suspending or
1:37:02 > 1:37:06ending a prison contract with Saudi Arabia over concerns for human
1:37:06 > 1:37:11rights, but will not suspend arms sales when it comes to humanitarian
1:37:11 > 1:37:14crisis in Yemen? And will he finally outlined what it is he hopes to
1:37:14 > 1:37:19achieve at the joint foreign ministers meeting with Saudi Arabia
1:37:19 > 1:37:25and the United States, I'll man and the UAE on the 14th of November?
1:37:25 > 1:37:28What will our majesties Government be calling for and what is he hope
1:37:28 > 1:37:36of achieving at that meeting?Let me start with the last part of the
1:37:36 > 1:37:39honourable gentleman's question, because we have convened at that
1:37:39 > 1:37:45meeting. We hope it will be in London and it will be after a
1:37:45 > 1:37:51meeting I hosted in New York of the UN General Assembly, which is the
1:37:51 > 1:37:55United Kingdom, the United States, the UAE and Saudi Arabia, met with a
1:37:55 > 1:38:00special representative for Yemen to discuss progress on negotiations and
1:38:00 > 1:38:05talks. The engagement of Omar is to try and get the link that will get
1:38:05 > 1:38:09Houthis and those who support them to engage in talks and use the good
1:38:09 > 1:38:14offices of Oman to achieve that in Muscat. It is part of an effort made
1:38:14 > 1:38:18over many months to support the work of the UN's special representative
1:38:18 > 1:38:23in order to make political progress. So the United Kingdom is doing all
1:38:23 > 1:38:28it can to facilitate this. What do I hope comes out of it? I hope we get
1:38:28 > 1:38:31a detailed plan for the de-escalation of the conflict, but
1:38:31 > 1:38:35that will only work of all parties will agree to it. But it is a matter
1:38:35 > 1:38:38of the utmost concern to the United Kingdom if we do that than that is
1:38:38 > 1:38:44what we are engaged in. In terms of the other questions, I spoke earlier
1:38:44 > 1:38:50about the arms control situation. It is not UK policy to change matters
1:38:50 > 1:38:54in relation to Saudi Arabia but to continue to use the rigorous arms
1:38:54 > 1:38:59controls mechanisms and the legal obligations that we have, not least
1:38:59 > 1:39:04to ensure that international humanitarian law is applied in
1:39:04 > 1:39:09relation to the use of any weapons by the Saudis in relation to the
1:39:09 > 1:39:13United Kingdom, and any allegations that that is not the case is open to
1:39:13 > 1:39:18legal challenge. In terms of the humanitarian aid, as I indicated, we
1:39:18 > 1:39:24are the third largest donor to Yemen, £155 million supplied for
1:39:24 > 1:39:31this year to support people. 1.8 million people, for food, nutrition
1:39:31 > 1:39:35for 1.7 million people, clean water and sanitation for 1.2 million
1:39:35 > 1:39:39people but I fully appreciate that unless the conflict comes to an end,
1:39:39 > 1:39:43the handing of aid is a plaster over the situation. The whole house
1:39:43 > 1:39:46should be united in wanting to see negotiations succeed and that is
1:39:46 > 1:39:54what the UK is spending all its efforts towards.
1:39:54 > 1:39:57Does my right honourable friend agreed no one should envy the
1:39:57 > 1:40:02coalition and the task it has set itself under a unanimous mandate
1:40:02 > 1:40:05from the UN security Council in delivering stability and security in
1:40:05 > 1:40:13the Yemen and would he be able to give us some sense of the numbers of
1:40:13 > 1:40:17Saudi civilians who have been killed in Saudi Arabia by action by
1:40:17 > 1:40:29missiles coming from the areas. I am grateful for my right
1:40:29 > 1:40:34honourable friend comments. In relation to the number of deaths
1:40:34 > 1:40:39among the Saudis, it is measured in hundreds in relation to a variety of
1:40:39 > 1:40:45missile attacks over the significant period of time. I am grateful to his
1:40:45 > 1:40:48remarks in relation to the complexity of the difficulty the
1:40:48 > 1:40:52coalition is dealing with, and interdiction against an elected
1:40:52 > 1:40:57Government and that is why it takes such effort to put it all together
1:40:57 > 1:41:03and the unwelcome involvement of those supplying weapons to the
1:41:03 > 1:41:06rebels instead of contributing to the peace process. But there is
1:41:06 > 1:41:15always a part for all sides to play in the peace process.
1:41:15 > 1:41:19There was an increase in the profile of Daesh horizon in the region and
1:41:19 > 1:41:29what is the UK doing... To prevent the prolonging of the terrible
1:41:29 > 1:41:37humanitarian situation.The honourable gentleman is mostly right
1:41:37 > 1:41:42in his question. As Daesh lapses elsewhere they will look for other
1:41:42 > 1:41:50areas of instability to exploit, the peninsula is already exploited by
1:41:50 > 1:41:52Al-Qaeda and that is why the prolonging of this dispute and
1:41:52 > 1:41:59particularly the engagement of the outside who supply weapons to the
1:41:59 > 1:42:04Houthis make it more difficult. We are trying to end the conflict by
1:42:04 > 1:42:08negotiation and in the meantime support efforts made by the
1:42:08 > 1:42:12coalition to prevent further damage to civilians.With my right
1:42:12 > 1:42:15honourable friend agree that the actions of the Iranian Government in
1:42:15 > 1:42:20this region are directly impacting on the lives of millions of people
1:42:20 > 1:42:23on the living financial and would you also agreed possession of this
1:42:23 > 1:42:29Government must be to face enemies not only of own countries of our
1:42:29 > 1:42:36allies, which in this region points Iran?
1:42:36 > 1:42:41In many ways, we are trying to understand a future Iran which, on
1:42:41 > 1:42:45the one hand, is looking for engagement with the wider world and
1:42:45 > 1:42:48on the other is engaged in disruptive activities, whether
1:42:48 > 1:42:57Syria, Yemen, Iraq, or Bahrain. There are efforts, always the
1:42:57 > 1:43:01opportunity for those who have been responsible for disruption to change
1:43:01 > 1:43:04and our engagement with Iran is partly to provide the opportunity so
1:43:04 > 1:43:07in some cases they might be part of an answer rather than part of the
1:43:07 > 1:43:13problem. Isn't it a bit misleading for the
1:43:13 > 1:43:20Minister to suggest that is rigorous control in this house of arms
1:43:20 > 1:43:26exports one the committee on arms exports controls has not met for
1:43:26 > 1:43:35several months for various reasons, it will meet soon, almost a year has
1:43:35 > 1:43:38gone by without the committee meeting and the outcome might have
1:43:38 > 1:43:43been very different on exports to Saudi Arabia.
1:43:43 > 1:43:46I understand the right honourable lady questions have not been at the
1:43:46 > 1:43:51receiving end of Sir John Stanley Communications, I understand how
1:43:51 > 1:43:55rigorous the house can be what it is more a matter for Parliament rather
1:43:55 > 1:43:59than Government to re-establish that committee. The rigorous control of
1:43:59 > 1:44:05the law is certainly very clear and very much in the Government's mind.
1:44:05 > 1:44:11The minister at the dispatch box highlights easing the blockade and
1:44:11 > 1:44:16supporting innocent civilians as a priority. QT update the house on the
1:44:16 > 1:44:21viability of peace talks and the role the UK is playing and cajoling
1:44:21 > 1:44:25everyone to come to the table and how likely these are possible and
1:44:25 > 1:44:31what the outcome could be? I am grateful for my honourable
1:44:31 > 1:44:34friend question and could I commend the actions firstly of our
1:44:34 > 1:44:43ambassador to Yemen and also the permanent representative at the UN
1:44:43 > 1:44:46for the efforts they have been making both locally and
1:44:46 > 1:44:50internationally in support of the work I mentioned earlier, to get the
1:44:50 > 1:44:54various parties together and find a negotiated outcome. They are doing
1:44:54 > 1:44:57all they can and getting support from the foreign & Commonwealth
1:44:57 > 1:45:06Office in those efforts. How does the Minister reconcile the
1:45:06 > 1:45:09fact that urgent humanitarian disaster we are rightly sending aid
1:45:09 > 1:45:13to try and address in Yemen has been made worse by the weapons the UK has
1:45:13 > 1:45:22sold to Saudi Arabia? I have to say, if no further weapons
1:45:22 > 1:45:27were being supplied by the UK the conflict would still go on. That
1:45:27 > 1:45:32simply happens to be true. There has been conflict in that area for a
1:45:32 > 1:45:37considerable time and there are many issues to be decided behind it. I
1:45:37 > 1:45:41wish it was as simple as the UK making a single decision and all the
1:45:41 > 1:45:49conflict in the area ends but I cannot see that. That is why we
1:45:49 > 1:45:53have... It is exactly what she said and I am making it very clear I do
1:45:53 > 1:45:57not believe that would assess the situation and I think it would make
1:45:57 > 1:46:00it more difficult for the UK to play the part it is playing in
1:46:00 > 1:46:05negotiations and that is the most important thing.
1:46:05 > 1:46:10Is my right honourable friend away at the UN appealed for Yemen has
1:46:10 > 1:46:14raised just half of its target and does he agree to style pine for
1:46:14 > 1:46:21other countries to follow the UK's by making pledges or other wrinkles
1:46:21 > 1:46:28pledges already made?-- honouring those pledges.
1:46:28 > 1:46:36There is a real appeal fatigue, whether it is a new issues such as
1:46:36 > 1:46:39in and Mark, both in northern Iraq with the fall of morsel and rack up
1:46:39 > 1:46:47as well as Yemen, it is true efforts to raise money through the UN have
1:46:47 > 1:46:51been difficult and it is very important the UK keeps up its record
1:46:51 > 1:46:55in relation to this and I am proud of the fact the UK has been such a
1:46:55 > 1:47:04donor. There certainly seems to be a
1:47:04 > 1:47:07softening of the attitude towards human rights in Saudi Arabia and
1:47:07 > 1:47:13hopefully a more secular society but could the Minister say if he has had
1:47:13 > 1:47:19discussions with the new regime to resume peace talks using the
1:47:19 > 1:47:22schedule by meeting of foreign ministers between several countries
1:47:22 > 1:47:30on the 14th of November? My right honourable friend the
1:47:30 > 1:47:33Foreign Secretary has already engaged in direct conversations with
1:47:33 > 1:47:40the Crown Prince, I engage with the Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia at
1:47:40 > 1:47:46the weekend and others. It's a constant conversation and we
1:47:46 > 1:47:50desperately want to see an end to this crisis and conflict and there
1:47:50 > 1:47:54is more than just the coalition involved which is why efforts have
1:47:54 > 1:47:58to be made with Houthis and those who support them and why the
1:47:58 > 1:48:02involvement of Iran is so important as they could also contribute to
1:48:02 > 1:48:05peace but all efforts are being made.
1:48:05 > 1:48:14Order. Statement the Secretary of State for Foreign & Commonwealth
1:48:14 > 1:48:18Affairs. Secretary Boris Johnson. With your permission I will make a
1:48:18 > 1:48:23statement updating the house on the campaign against... In Iraq and
1:48:23 > 1:48:27Syria. I would like to begin by inform the house I called the
1:48:27 > 1:48:38reigning Foreign Minister this morning to discuss the case of Ms
1:48:38 > 1:48:41Radcliffe I expressed my anxiety about her suffering and the ordeal
1:48:41 > 1:48:45of her family and expressed my hope for a swift solution. I also voiced
1:48:45 > 1:48:55my concern about one suggestion from one branch of the perihelion
1:48:55 > 1:48:58judicially -- a reading judicially that my remarks had some bearing on
1:48:58 > 1:49:04her case. The UK has no doubt she was on holiday in Iran when she was
1:49:04 > 1:49:09arrested last year that was the sole purpose of our visit. My point was I
1:49:09 > 1:49:14disagree with the Iranians view that training journalists was a crime.
1:49:14 > 1:49:20Not that I wanted to lend any credence to allegations that she had
1:49:20 > 1:49:27been engaged in such activity. I accept my remarks could have been
1:49:27 > 1:49:32clearer in that respect and I am glad to provide this qualification.
1:49:32 > 1:49:39I am sure the house will join me in paying tribute to the tireless
1:49:39 > 1:49:42campaigning of Mr Radcliffe on behalf of his wife and we will not
1:49:42 > 1:49:52relent in our efforts to help all our cases in Iran. He told me in a
1:49:52 > 1:49:57recent development in the case had no link to my testimony last week
1:49:57 > 1:50:02and he would continue to seek a solution on humanitarian grounds. I
1:50:02 > 1:50:08will visit Iran in the coming weeks, where I will discuss all our
1:50:08 > 1:50:15consulate cases. I turned to the campaign against.... In the summer
1:50:15 > 1:50:19of 2014 Daesh swept down the Tigris and Euphrates valleys, up by
1:50:19 > 1:50:24thousands of square miles of Iraqi territory and pillaging cities and
1:50:24 > 1:50:28massacring and excluding minorities and seeking to impose a demented
1:50:28 > 1:50:38vision of an Islamist you talk -- Islamist utopia. The seed oil fields
1:50:38 > 1:50:44and carved out a base from which to launch their assault on Iraq. I can
1:50:44 > 1:50:48tell the house today Daesh have been rolled back of every battlefront
1:50:48 > 1:50:53thanks to the courage and resolve of Iraqi security forces, our partners
1:50:53 > 1:50:59in Syria and the steadfast action of the 73 members of the caller should,
1:50:59 > 1:51:03including this country, Daesh have lost 90% of the territory they once
1:51:03 > 1:51:10held in Iraq and Syria. Including the former capital, and 6 million
1:51:10 > 1:51:13people have been freed from their rule. When my right honourable
1:51:13 > 1:51:18friend the former Defence Secretary last updated the house in July, the
1:51:18 > 1:51:23biggest city in northern Iraq had just been liberated. Since then
1:51:23 > 1:51:29Iraqi forces have broken... 'S grep on several other towns and cleared
1:51:29 > 1:51:36the terrorists from all but a relatively small area of the Syrian
1:51:36 > 1:51:40border, demonstrating how the field caliphate is crumbling before our
1:51:40 > 1:51:46eyes. The house will join me in paying tribute to the men and women
1:51:46 > 1:51:49of the British Armed Forces who have been vital to every step of the
1:51:49 > 1:51:56advance. Over 600 British soldiers are in Iraq would have helped train
1:51:56 > 1:52:0250,000 members of the Iraqi security forces and the RAF have delivered
1:52:02 > 1:52:081352 air strikes against... In Iraq and 263 in Syria, more than any
1:52:08 > 1:52:12other air force apart from the United States. I turned to Syria
1:52:12 > 1:52:23where on the 20th of October the coalition confirmed the fall after
1:52:23 > 1:52:29three years of brutal occupation. I acknowledge the sacrifices by those
1:52:29 > 1:52:36on the ground and especially the civilian population. We have been
1:52:36 > 1:52:40working with partners throughout the province to supply food, water,
1:52:40 > 1:52:48health care and shelter wherever possible. On the of October the
1:52:48 > 1:52:50International Development Secretary announced another £10 million worth
1:52:50 > 1:52:57of aid. In order to clear the landmines placed by Daesh, restart
1:52:57 > 1:53:02hospitals and mobile surgical units and provide clean water for 15,000
1:53:02 > 1:53:08people. The permanent defeat of Daesh in Syria, by which I mean
1:53:08 > 1:53:13removing the conditions that allow them to seize large areas in the
1:53:13 > 1:53:18first place, will require a political settlement and that must
1:53:18 > 1:53:26include a transition away from the Assad regime which did so much to
1:53:26 > 1:53:31create the conditions for the rise of Daesh. How that is reached if the
1:53:31 > 1:53:34matter for the city in themselves and we will continue support the
1:53:34 > 1:53:42work of the UN special envoy -- for the Syrians themselves. I am
1:53:42 > 1:53:48encouraged hope the USA and Russia have stayed in close contact over
1:53:48 > 1:53:51the future of Syria and we must continue to emphasise to the tremor
1:53:51 > 1:53:57that instead of blindly supporting a murderous regime, even after UN
1:53:57 > 1:54:04investigators found its forces guilty of using nerve gas, Russia
1:54:04 > 1:54:09should join the international community and support a negotiated
1:54:09 > 1:54:14settlement in Syria under the auspices of the UN. Turning to Iraq,
1:54:14 > 1:54:18more than 2 million people have returned to their homes in areas
1:54:18 > 1:54:26liberated from Daesh including 255,000 who have gone back to Mosul.
1:54:26 > 1:54:30Britain is providing over £200 million of life-saving assistance
1:54:30 > 1:54:35for Iraqi civilians. We are helping to clear the explosives that were
1:54:35 > 1:54:40laid by Daesh, restore water supplies that the terrorist sabotage
1:54:40 > 1:54:46and give clean water to 200,000 people and health care to 150,000.
1:54:46 > 1:54:51Now that Daesh is close to defeat in Iraq the leaders of the country must
1:54:51 > 1:54:55resolve political tensions that, in part, paved the way for its advanced
1:54:55 > 1:55:00in 2014.
1:55:00 > 1:55:03The Kurdistan region held a unilateral referendum on
1:55:03 > 1:55:10independence on the of September, a decision we did not support -- 25th
1:55:10 > 1:55:15of September. Since then, Masood Barzani has stepped down as
1:55:15 > 1:55:23president of the regional Government and Iraqi forces have taken over
1:55:23 > 1:55:28control of disputed territory. We are working alongside our allies to
1:55:28 > 1:55:33reduce tensions in northern Iraq. Rather than reopen old conflicts,
1:55:33 > 1:55:38the priority must be to restore the stability, prosperity and national
1:55:38 > 1:55:47unity that is the right of every Iraqi. A general election will take
1:55:47 > 1:55:51next May, giving the opportunity to parties to set out their respective
1:55:51 > 1:55:56visions of a party that overcomes sectarianism and serves every
1:55:56 > 1:56:01citizen, including Kurds. The National reconciliation will require
1:56:01 > 1:56:05justice and justice demands that Daesh are held accountable for their
1:56:05 > 1:56:10atrocities in Iraq and elsewhere. That is why I acted over a year ago
1:56:10 > 1:56:13in concert with the Government of Iraq to launch the global campaign
1:56:13 > 1:56:20to bring Daesh to justice. In September, the Security Council
1:56:20 > 1:56:27unanimously adopted UN resolution 2379, a British drafted text,
1:56:27 > 1:56:31co-sponsored by 46 countries, that will establish a UN investigation to
1:56:31 > 1:56:36help gather and preserve the evidence of Daesh crimes in Iraq.
1:56:36 > 1:56:41Every square mile of territory that Daesh have lost is one square mile
1:56:41 > 1:56:48less for them to exploit and tax and plunder, and the impending
1:56:48 > 1:56:51destruction of the so-called caliphate will reduce their ability
1:56:51 > 1:56:58to fund terrorism abroad and attract new recruits. Yet Daesh will still
1:56:58 > 1:57:04try to inspire attacks by spreading their hateful ideology in cyberspace
1:57:04 > 1:57:08even have that they have lost every inch of their physical domain. That
1:57:08 > 1:57:13is why Britain leads the coalition efforts to counter Daesh propaganda,
1:57:13 > 1:57:16through a communication cell based here in London and Daesh's total
1:57:16 > 1:57:21propaganda output has fallen by half since 2015. But social media
1:57:21 > 1:57:27companies can and must do more, particularly to speed up the
1:57:27 > 1:57:33detection and removal of dangerous material and prevented from being
1:57:33 > 1:57:36uploaded in the first place. Hence my right honourable friend the Prime
1:57:36 > 1:57:40Minister co-hosted an event at the UN General Assembly in September on
1:57:40 > 1:57:44how to stop terrorists from using the Internet. The Government has
1:57:44 > 1:57:48always made clear that British nationals who join Daesh have chosen
1:57:48 > 1:57:53to make themselves legitimate targets for the coalition. We expect
1:57:53 > 1:57:57that most foreign fighters will die in a terrorist domain they opted to
1:57:57 > 1:58:01serve, but some may surrender or try to come home, including to the UK.
1:58:01 > 1:58:05As the Government has previously said, anyone who returns to this
1:58:05 > 1:58:10country after taking part in the conflict in Syria or Iraq must
1:58:10 > 1:58:14expect to be investigated for reasons of national security. While
1:58:14 > 1:58:17foreign fighters face the consequences of their actions, the
1:58:17 > 1:58:22valour and sacrifice of the armed forces of many nations, including
1:58:22 > 1:58:25our own, has prevented a terrorist entity from taking root in the heart
1:58:25 > 1:58:30of the Middle East and I commend this statement to the house.Emily
1:58:30 > 1:58:37Thornberry.Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'd like to
1:58:37 > 1:58:39thank the Foreign Secretary for advance sight of his statement, I
1:58:39 > 1:58:45will come to his remarks regarding Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe in a
1:58:45 > 1:58:48moment but Leadbitter has address the formal purpose of this
1:58:48 > 1:58:50statement, the Government's quarterly update on the fight
1:58:50 > 1:58:56against Daesh. We are all agreed in this House that Daesh is nothing but
1:58:56 > 1:59:00an evil death cult and must be wiped off the face of the Earth. We
1:59:00 > 1:59:03therefore warmly welcomed the recent hard-fought successes in both Syria
1:59:03 > 1:59:08and Iraq, with their vision of a caliphate stretching in both
1:59:08 > 1:59:13countries now lying in absolute ruins. But while but specific danger
1:59:13 > 1:59:16evaporates before our eyes, we all know too well that the wider threat
1:59:16 > 1:59:20they pose as they cease to operate as a conventional military force,
1:59:20 > 1:59:24seeking to occupy territory in towns and retreat to the role of a well
1:59:24 > 1:59:30armed, well trained and fanatical network of terrorist cells, seeking
1:59:30 > 1:59:33to indoctrinate others and inflict indiscriminate mass casualties in
1:59:33 > 1:59:39Iraq, Syria and also far, far beyond. We must therefore not let
1:59:39 > 1:59:43our guard down, the fight against Daesh has not been won, it is simply
1:59:43 > 1:59:47switching to a new phase. So I have a number of questions and I hope the
1:59:47 > 1:59:51Foreign Secretary will address them. First, will he correct his junior
1:59:51 > 1:59:55colleague, the Minister for State for Africa, who said recently the
1:59:55 > 1:59:59only way to deal for British citizens who have gone to fight for
1:59:59 > 2:00:04Daesh is, and I quote, "In almost every case, to kill them." This
2:00:04 > 2:00:15sends a very unfortunate signal to groups in Syria and beyond who are
2:00:15 > 2:00:17currently holding in detention British citizens captured on the
2:00:17 > 2:00:19battlefield. Can the Foreign Secretary make clear today that it
2:00:19 > 2:00:21remains Government policy that those individuals should be returned to
2:00:21 > 2:00:24this country to face trial for their crimes, not simply be executed by
2:00:24 > 2:00:27their captors? He might also advise the Minister for Africa that in
2:00:27 > 2:00:30positions of responsibility in the Foreign Office, you have to engage
2:00:30 > 2:00:35your brain and think about the consequences of your words before
2:00:35 > 2:00:39opening your mouth. Secondly, Mr Speaker, the Foreign Secretary will
2:00:39 > 2:00:45have noted last week the first US drone strikes targeting Daesh rather
2:00:45 > 2:00:48than Al-Shabab inside Somalia. Wilbur Foreign Secretary guarantee
2:00:48 > 2:00:54that has that of the UK is asked to participate in the opening of a new
2:00:54 > 2:00:57front against Daesh, it will be subject to a proper Parliamentary
2:00:57 > 2:01:06divided back through debate and vote. Thirdly, as Daesh continues in
2:01:06 > 2:01:09the Syrian civil war, can the Government tell us what is the
2:01:09 > 2:01:13current strategy in Syria? What we now seeking to achieve in both
2:01:13 > 2:01:19military and a diplomatic sense from our engagement there and can he tell
2:01:19 > 2:01:22us, is the Government intention to continue channelling funds to Syrian
2:01:22 > 2:01:26opposition groups and of the £20 million that has already been
2:01:26 > 2:01:29channelled to those groups over the past three years, can he give us a
2:01:29 > 2:01:34cast-iron guarantee today that none of that money has ended up in the
2:01:34 > 2:01:39hands of the Al-Masrahi front or other Jihadi groups? For fun
2:01:39 > 2:01:45finally, as attention turns to Daesh's last remaining stronghold,
2:01:45 > 2:01:49the Foreign Secretary will be aware of the risks as the Russian Iranians
2:01:49 > 2:01:53that forces approached the town from one side and democratic forces
2:01:53 > 2:01:58approached the town from the other side, can he tell the house what
2:01:58 > 2:02:05steps Britain is taking in the battle to liberate the city from
2:02:05 > 2:02:11Daesh both from the air and ground does not lead to clashes between the
2:02:11 > 2:02:19two liberating armies? Turning to Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. We
2:02:19 > 2:02:21appreciate the Foreign Secretary Bosma clarification, we welcome the
2:02:21 > 2:02:26phone call he made this morning to his Iranians counterpart and we all
2:02:26 > 2:02:29hope that no lasting damage is done to Nazanin as a result of his
2:02:29 > 2:02:35blunder. However, I hope that he will now take the opportunity to
2:02:35 > 2:02:40apologise to this woman's family, to have friends and through her
2:02:40 > 2:02:43employers. To my honourable friend the Member for Hampstead and Kilburn
2:02:43 > 2:02:48and to all those others in this House and beyond who have been
2:02:48 > 2:02:52working so hard to obtain this young mother's release from the distress
2:02:52 > 2:02:56and anguish that his foolish words have caused to them and to this
2:02:56 > 2:03:02woman in recent days. We are all bound to ask, Madam Deputy Speaker,
2:03:02 > 2:03:07how many more times does this data happen? How many more times does the
2:03:07 > 2:03:12Foreign Secretary have do insult our international partners, damage our
2:03:12 > 2:03:15diplomatic relations and now in peril the interests of British
2:03:15 > 2:03:21national is abroad? How long will it be before the Prime Minister says
2:03:21 > 2:03:26enough is enough? But if the truth is that she can't, because she
2:03:26 > 2:03:31doesn't have the strength or authority to sack him, how about the
2:03:31 > 2:03:34Foreign Secretary himself shows at the top personal responsibility and
2:03:34 > 2:03:40admits that a job like this, where your words hold gravity and your
2:03:40 > 2:03:50actions have consequences, it is simply not the job for him?
2:03:50 > 2:03:57Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. To take the points raised by The Right
2:03:57 > 2:04:00Honourable Lady in... Madam Deputy Speaker, forgive me. The points made
2:04:00 > 2:04:08by the Right Honourable Lady in turn, our view about UK nationals
2:04:08 > 2:04:14fighting in Iraq or Syria for Daesh is, of course, that they must think
2:04:14 > 2:04:17of themselves as legitimate targets whilst they are doing that, though
2:04:17 > 2:04:25when they seek to come back here, they of course will be subject to
2:04:25 > 2:04:30investigation and the full force of the law. On her second question, we
2:04:30 > 2:04:36have had no requests, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the air strikes of the
2:04:36 > 2:04:42type that she mentions, so the military operation of the kind she
2:04:42 > 2:04:50describes in Somalia. In respect of the policy on Syria, her third
2:04:50 > 2:04:57point, we are working to bring together the Astana and Geneva
2:04:57 > 2:05:02processes. We believe the great political leverage that we in the UK
2:05:02 > 2:05:08and more broadly in the West have over the Russians and, indeed, over
2:05:08 > 2:05:11all those who are involved in the future of Syria, is that it is the
2:05:11 > 2:05:18West, it is the UK, the EU, the US, that have the budgets for rebuilding
2:05:18 > 2:05:24Syria and it is only if the Assad regime, the Russians, the Iranians,
2:05:24 > 2:05:28accept the need for a political process that we can begin with that
2:05:28 > 2:05:38process of rebuilding. Carla, are going on to avoid the conflict and
2:05:38 > 2:05:44the factions concerned do not come into conflict. Her final point, she
2:05:44 > 2:05:49comes back to the case of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and let me repeat,
2:05:49 > 2:05:54I think what everybody in this House wants to see is Nazanin
2:05:54 > 2:06:00Zaghari-Ratcliffe released and that is what... That is exactly what the
2:06:00 > 2:06:03Foreign Office is working for, that is what we have been working for
2:06:03 > 2:06:09solidly over the last 18 months and I may say, and I may say, it is
2:06:09 > 2:06:12simply untrue for her to say, as she has said today, that there is any
2:06:12 > 2:06:20connection whatever between my remarks last week and the legal
2:06:20 > 2:06:24proceedings under way against Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe in Tehran
2:06:24 > 2:06:27today. And I may say to The Right Honourable Lady that she has a
2:06:27 > 2:06:32choice, she always has a choice in these matters. She can choose to
2:06:32 > 2:06:37blame, to heap blame on to the British Foreign Office that is
2:06:37 > 2:06:46trying to secure the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and in so
2:06:46 > 2:06:48doing, she deflects blame, she deflects accountability from those
2:06:48 > 2:06:52who are truly responsible for holding that mother in jail and that
2:06:52 > 2:06:58is the Iranians regime.Order! Order! The Foreign Secretary is
2:06:58 > 2:07:05dealing with a very important matter of some delicacy and nobody anywhere
2:07:05 > 2:07:10in this House ought to be shouting while he is doing so. And they
2:07:10 > 2:07:14certainly shouldn't be shouting while I am speaking from the chair.
2:07:14 > 2:07:20Foreign Secretary might wish to finish his point.I completed my
2:07:20 > 2:07:25point but I will say it again, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a great shame
2:07:25 > 2:07:32that in seeking to score political points, she is deflecting blame,
2:07:32 > 2:07:36accountability and responsibility from where it truly lies which is
2:07:36 > 2:07:43with the Iranian regime and it is towards releasing Nazanin
2:07:43 > 2:07:46Zaghari-Ratcliffe, not blaming the UK Foreign Office, that we should
2:07:46 > 2:07:54direct our efforts.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I appeal to the
2:07:54 > 2:07:59Foreign Secretary, even at this late stage, to adopt a more realistic
2:07:59 > 2:08:06policy to the outcome in Syria? It was always the case that if Daesh
2:08:06 > 2:08:11were going to lose, the Iraqi Government were going to win in its
2:08:11 > 2:08:15territory and the Syrian Government were going to win in its territory.
2:08:15 > 2:08:21We have not seen any sign of 70,000 moderate fighters as a third force.
2:08:21 > 2:08:26Will he now and accept the fact that, unpleasant though it is, it is
2:08:26 > 2:08:33better to recognise that the regime is going to persevere in Syria, even
2:08:33 > 2:08:40though that is a price that we have to pay for the elimination of Daesh?
2:08:40 > 2:08:43My right honourable friend speaks with great wisdom in this matter and
2:08:43 > 2:08:48we must accept that the Assad regime does now possess itself up most of
2:08:48 > 2:08:53what you might call operational Syria, and that is a reality, but
2:08:53 > 2:08:57they have not won, they do not possess all of Syria and if they
2:08:57 > 2:09:01want that country rebuild, they know it can only be done with the support
2:09:01 > 2:09:05of us in the UK and in the European Union and United States, and that is
2:09:05 > 2:09:10the leverage we hold and that is how we hope to get the Assad regime and
2:09:10 > 2:09:16the Russians engaged in proper political process.Can I thank the
2:09:16 > 2:09:20Foreign Secretary for early sight of his statement. Firstly on Syria, we
2:09:20 > 2:09:25on these benches obviously welcome any reversals of Daesh and the
2:09:25 > 2:09:28short-term humanitarian help provided to the people of Syria. The
2:09:28 > 2:09:32Foreign Secretary will be aware that there must be long-term
2:09:32 > 2:09:36consolidation, so what long-term funds have been set aside for
2:09:36 > 2:09:40restructuring in Syria after this conflict? He mentioned
2:09:40 > 2:09:44accountability as well. Is it the case he will be supporting the cases
2:09:44 > 2:09:49of Daesh fighters being referred to the International criminal Court? On
2:09:49 > 2:09:52the case of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, can I just ask
2:09:52 > 2:09:56the Foreign Secretary if he will tell us, he told the foreign affairs
2:09:56 > 2:10:00committee she was simply teaching people journalism. The Foreign
2:10:00 > 2:10:04Secretary must be aware of the impact of his words. Will he tell
2:10:04 > 2:10:16us, will he be crystal clear about what he said? Secondly, will he tell
2:10:16 > 2:10:21Has he met with her family and what guidance has he taken from her and
2:10:21 > 2:10:28her family about her case? I can confirm the UK is the second
2:10:28 > 2:10:32biggest donor to the reconstruction and humanitarian relief effort in
2:10:32 > 2:10:37said here and we will be a major contributor when the Geneva talks
2:10:37 > 2:10:50get back under way. On bringing Daesh to gestures there is a
2:10:50 > 2:10:56question still about which for them we are going to find to bring these
2:10:56 > 2:11:01people to justice. But we are determined to do that and are
2:11:01 > 2:11:08assembling the evidence. On his point about Nazanin
2:11:08 > 2:11:15Zaghari-Ratcliffe, these are allegations made against her by the
2:11:15 > 2:11:22Iranians, which we think there is no substance, whatever as I said in my
2:11:22 > 2:11:30statement and I will, before I go to Iran in the next few weeks, I will
2:11:30 > 2:11:39seek a meeting with Mr Ratcliffe, who has been in regular contact with
2:11:39 > 2:11:47our ministers and with the Foreign Office.
2:11:47 > 2:11:52I thought I the Foreign Secretary's statement that his reference with
2:11:52 > 2:11:58regard to the fight in Raqqa to the coalition's Kurdish partner forces,
2:11:58 > 2:12:03the word Kurdish does not appear in the written version, he also spoke
2:12:03 > 2:12:09of the consequences of the referendum by the Kurdish regional
2:12:09 > 2:12:15Government for Kurds in Iraq. As matters unfold with the effective
2:12:15 > 2:12:20end of an Islamic state control of territory in Syria and Iraq, will he
2:12:20 > 2:12:26bear in mind the Kurds have been let down by history over the course of
2:12:26 > 2:12:30the last century, they think they have friends in the UK and the USA
2:12:30 > 2:12:36and will he try and ensure in protecting Kurdish cultural
2:12:36 > 2:12:40interests and Kurdish freedoms in all the countries of that region, it
2:12:40 > 2:12:45is not just the mountains that are their friends?
2:12:45 > 2:12:48Can I thank my right honourable friend for the eloquent way he
2:12:48 > 2:12:53expresses himself on that point. This country and this house is
2:12:53 > 2:12:59indeed a great friend of Kurdistan and the will remember in that
2:12:59 > 2:13:05mountainous region they brought this Conservative Government played back
2:13:05 > 2:13:10in 1991 in setting up the safe havens for the Kurds which was the
2:13:10 > 2:13:15origin of the Kurdish regional Government of today. And I see
2:13:15 > 2:13:19campaigners on the other side of the house who have also played a major
2:13:19 > 2:13:25role and they can be in no doubt of our lasting friendship. We also said
2:13:25 > 2:13:28to them a referendum must not be right way forward and the best
2:13:28 > 2:13:38course now for our Kurdish friends is surely to take advantage of you
2:13:38 > 2:13:44is the best possible hope and enter into substantial negotiations.
2:13:44 > 2:13:49The Foreign Secretary had a week to collect the records and to apologise
2:13:49 > 2:13:57-- contract the record and apologised over Miss honourable
2:13:57 > 2:14:00lady. It is not the first time the Foreign Secretary has said things
2:14:00 > 2:14:07that are inaccurate and he cannot keep simply shrugging them off as a
2:14:07 > 2:14:12lack of clarity only careless choice of words. In this case there are
2:14:12 > 2:14:15fears this could mean the extended incarceration of the British Iranian
2:14:15 > 2:14:25women and he will know the lives and the safety of British citizens
2:14:25 > 2:14:29across the globe depend on having a Foreign Secretary who does not
2:14:29 > 2:14:35bluster and who is not too careless or too lazy to consider his words.
2:14:35 > 2:14:41Well the Foreign Secretary now apologise, but you cannot be trusted
2:14:41 > 2:14:49to do this job and he should resign? I really think I have made my
2:14:49 > 2:14:54position clear already on this and the Iranians have made the position
2:14:54 > 2:14:56clear, there was absolutely no connection between anything said
2:14:56 > 2:15:08last week which I see members of the FAC here today and they did not pass
2:15:08 > 2:15:15any comment on it and there was no impact on those remarks and Teheran.
2:15:15 > 2:15:19Rather than posturing and party political point scoring, if I may
2:15:19 > 2:15:26say, is recognised in the extreme sensitivity of these negotiations
2:15:26 > 2:15:31and get on with securing the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. That
2:15:31 > 2:15:38is why I am going to tell and in the next few weeks and, yes, I agree it
2:15:38 > 2:15:43will not be easy at all but it is a very difficult negotiation but that
2:15:43 > 2:15:47is the effort to watch the Foreign Office is devoted and dedicated and
2:15:47 > 2:15:53they deserve the full support of the right honourable lady.
2:15:53 > 2:15:59Does the Foreign Secretary share my concerns on the one hand when we
2:15:59 > 2:16:04recognise the destruction of Daesh at its base, on the other, they will
2:16:04 > 2:16:08regroup in other areas, in particular and potentially merging
2:16:08 > 2:16:12with the Taliban in Afghanistan? Can the Foreign Secretary Tilney is
2:16:12 > 2:16:17there anything that can be done about this? -- and the Foreign
2:16:17 > 2:16:26Secretary tell me. Daesh and Islamist terrorism is
2:16:26 > 2:16:30widespread and ubiquitous, but we can defeat it is and if you look at
2:16:30 > 2:16:37what we have done just in Iraq and Syria we have removed them from 90%
2:16:37 > 2:16:41of the territory they held. 6 million people back in their homes,
2:16:41 > 2:16:45they can be defeated in the ungoverned spaces where they made
2:16:45 > 2:16:49their homes and set up their headquarters. And they will
2:16:49 > 2:16:53ultimately be defeated in Afghanistan as well. I am not saying
2:16:53 > 2:16:57this is for tomorrow or indeed the day after but we will win the
2:16:57 > 2:17:06struggle and moderate Muslims everywhere will win the struggle.
2:17:06 > 2:17:10The casual disregard for the truth shown by the right honourable
2:17:10 > 2:17:14gentlemen in his campaign boss last year was bad enough, but his
2:17:14 > 2:17:20carelessness in the case of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe last week is
2:17:20 > 2:17:24unforgivable. Does the Foreign Secretary realise that in this ball
2:17:24 > 2:17:31in his words have a serious impact caused this is not a game. If you
2:17:31 > 2:17:35will not take his job seriously enough even to read his belief he
2:17:35 > 2:17:39should step down and make way for one of his colleagues who will.
2:17:39 > 2:17:49With great respect I refer the answer to give month ago.
2:17:49 > 2:17:53I commend the Foreign Secretary on his statement today. Could you not
2:17:53 > 2:17:57give us an undertaking that in future he will concentrate on the
2:17:57 > 2:18:02very important matters he has worked in his brief as Foreign Secretary,
2:18:02 > 2:18:07to that end, could he give an undertaking to support the Prime
2:18:07 > 2:18:11Minister in her efforts in relation to the Florence speech, for example,
2:18:11 > 2:18:17and make sure his own ambitions are put secondarily to the well-being of
2:18:17 > 2:18:20all my constituents and everybody else in the country because that is
2:18:20 > 2:18:27his job? I can assure my right honourable
2:18:27 > 2:18:35friend she and I are united, as I am sure the whole house is, in support
2:18:35 > 2:18:41of the Florence speech. My constituent, Nazanin
2:18:41 > 2:18:44Zaghari-Ratcliffe, has been imprisoned in Iran for 18 months
2:18:44 > 2:18:49now, separated from her daughter, often in solitary confinement and
2:18:49 > 2:18:51denied access to medical treatment because she was a British citizen
2:18:51 > 2:18:58having a holiday in Iran. The Foreign Secretary, his ministers and
2:18:58 > 2:19:02even the Prime Minister will be aware of this because I have raised
2:19:02 > 2:19:06her case countless times in the house. It is not enough for the
2:19:06 > 2:19:13Foreign Secretary not to know the basic details of this case, it is
2:19:13 > 2:19:17unforgivable to repeat the lives of the Iranian Revolutionary guards and
2:19:17 > 2:19:21to say I should be clear that does not cut it when it is a matter of
2:19:21 > 2:19:28life and death. I will ask the Foreign Secretary four questions. Is
2:19:28 > 2:19:31it the official position of the British Government they are calling
2:19:31 > 2:19:37for the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe? Is it possible
2:19:37 > 2:19:39the Foreign Secretary could apologise and retract for damaging
2:19:39 > 2:19:48comments he made about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe? Will be Foreign
2:19:48 > 2:19:53Secretary finally, after a year of failed attempts, meet with Richard
2:19:53 > 2:19:57Ratcliffe, the husband of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, and finally, will
2:19:57 > 2:20:04be Foreign Secretary reiterate that when he goes to Teheran he will be
2:20:04 > 2:20:07having a face-to-face meeting with my constituents, Nazanin
2:20:07 > 2:20:12Zaghari-Ratcliffe? I can certainly say the Government
2:20:12 > 2:20:16is of course calling for the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe on
2:20:16 > 2:20:25humanitarian grounds and we will continue to do so. I can confirm
2:20:25 > 2:20:31several ministers, including my right honourable friend on my left,
2:20:31 > 2:20:36has already met Mr Ratcliffe several times and I have had a note from him
2:20:36 > 2:20:41saying he welcomes the clarification we made earlier today and would like
2:20:41 > 2:20:50to meet and I look forward to doing that. And the honourable lady's
2:20:50 > 2:20:58final point was she wants to secure the release of Nazanin
2:20:58 > 2:21:01Zaghari-Ratcliffe, we all want to secure the release of Nazanin
2:21:01 > 2:21:08Zaghari-Ratcliffe. And if it is possible in the course of the trip
2:21:08 > 2:21:12to Teheran, to meet her constituents, then of course I will
2:21:12 > 2:21:18seek to do that. But I cannot stand before the house today and guarantee
2:21:18 > 2:21:22that will be possible but I will certainly do my best to ensure it is
2:21:22 > 2:21:28so. May I welcome the Foreign Secretary
2:21:28 > 2:21:33to the house today and welcome some of the qualification he has made to
2:21:33 > 2:21:37the comments he made in the Foreign Affairs Committee last week. May I
2:21:37 > 2:21:43say his errors in choice of work, however unfortunate they may seem,
2:21:43 > 2:21:48are entirely secondary and perhaps even tertiary compared to the crimes
2:21:48 > 2:21:54committed by the Iranian regime over nearly four decades. With the
2:21:54 > 2:21:58Foreign Secretary now take this opportunity to address the threat
2:21:58 > 2:22:03that Iran poses to your key in the region and whether, after 40 years
2:22:03 > 2:22:11of instability and tyranny, we need a wider review of the union policy.
2:22:11 > 2:22:20From folding British citizens hostage to failing to allow embassy
2:22:20 > 2:22:25staff to bring an secure communications could you explain why
2:22:25 > 2:22:32maintaining normal diplomatic communications with this regime
2:22:32 > 2:22:35should qualify as a nation with which we should have friendly
2:22:35 > 2:22:42diplomatic relations? I thank my honourable friend for his
2:22:42 > 2:22:47question. I think he is right in the sense in Iran poses a threat to the
2:22:47 > 2:22:53region and is because of instability and, as he says, you can see it in
2:22:53 > 2:22:58Yemen, their influence with Hezbollah, in Lebanon, in Syria. And
2:22:58 > 2:23:03Iran needs to be constrained, there is no question about that. I must
2:23:03 > 2:23:08say, I think to throw out all diplomatic relations with Iran and
2:23:08 > 2:23:13then bang -- abandon all engagement with the country would be provided
2:23:13 > 2:23:18mistake. And it is slightly surprising he should take that line
2:23:18 > 2:23:26because I think the Iran nuclear deal was an important diplomatic
2:23:26 > 2:23:33accomplishment and it is still excellent and alive and part of
2:23:33 > 2:23:37achievement of British diplomacy over the past few months that it
2:23:37 > 2:23:41remains in its essence intact and we intend to preserve it and it is the
2:23:41 > 2:23:45single best way of preventing Iran from securing a nuclear weapons, the
2:23:45 > 2:23:50best method we have at the moment. As for severing diplomatic relations
2:23:50 > 2:23:57entirely, let's go to the sort many of the questions honourable members
2:23:57 > 2:24:02opposite here today have asked, how can we secure the release of Nazanin
2:24:02 > 2:24:05Zaghari-Ratcliffe unless we are willing to get out there and engage
2:24:05 > 2:24:09with the Iranians diplomatically and make an effort to secure her
2:24:09 > 2:24:15release? That is what we are doing.
2:24:15 > 2:24:16Zaghari-Ratcliffe's family and the right honourable gentleman and I,
2:24:16 > 2:24:20some years ago, shared an accommodation poured in Baghdad and
2:24:20 > 2:24:29I think from that experience, he is experienced enough to know that
2:24:29 > 2:24:34Daesh, while I welcome the defeat on the ground, are still active on
2:24:34 > 2:24:37social media platforms and he referred to that. Would he agree
2:24:37 > 2:24:42with me and therefore press them to be much more nimble at stifling the
2:24:42 > 2:24:48activities they are involved in? And on the question of Nazanin
2:24:48 > 2:24:51Zaghari-Ratcliffe, The Right Honourable gentleman more than most
2:24:51 > 2:24:56is in a position to know that words matter and they matter because they
2:24:56 > 2:25:05confer meaning. Whether he spoke clumsily or was misinformed last
2:25:05 > 2:25:08week on that case, won't he accept, and I mean this in a good spirit,
2:25:08 > 2:25:17that the very least that is required is an apology?Madam Deputy Speaker,
2:25:17 > 2:25:21I think on the second point, with great respect my right honourable
2:25:21 > 2:25:25friend, I've answered that in some detail already but on his first
2:25:25 > 2:25:31point about countering Daesh online, as he knows, that is a subject in
2:25:31 > 2:25:37which the Prime Minister herself takes a very keen interest and we
2:25:37 > 2:25:41have, working with the Internet providers, we have taken 295,000
2:25:41 > 2:25:47separate pieces of Daesh propaganda down from the web, but there is
2:25:47 > 2:25:51much, much more that needs to be done, particularly by the social
2:25:51 > 2:25:58media giants.Words do matter in here, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the
2:25:58 > 2:26:04Art IGC, the Revolutionary Iranians guard Corps who will be watching
2:26:04 > 2:26:11today, are the ones to blame for the incarceration of a wife, mother, a
2:26:11 > 2:26:16British citizen spuriously charged with falsehoods. So if our words
2:26:16 > 2:26:19really do matter, then it is only right that we don't play party
2:26:19 > 2:26:23politics, and I'm looking at the Shadow front bench who were giggling
2:26:23 > 2:26:28a minute ago about the discomfort that the Foreign Secretary may be
2:26:28 > 2:26:36feeling. And I would ask the Foreign Secretary to get Nazanin released as
2:26:36 > 2:26:42soon as possible.I'm very grateful to my honourable friend, who speaks
2:26:42 > 2:26:49with huge authority about that region and I can certainly say that
2:26:49 > 2:26:52we are redoubling our efforts to secure the release of Nazanin
2:26:52 > 2:26:57Zaghari-Ratcliffe and I think he is entirely right that the focus of the
2:26:57 > 2:27:02house should not be on any failings or the responsibility of the UK
2:27:02 > 2:27:08Government for the incarceration of this mother... I really think that
2:27:08 > 2:27:13if she is going to continue to blame the British Government for the
2:27:13 > 2:27:15incarceration of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, she is living in
2:27:15 > 2:27:20cloud cuckoo land, had endeavoured to speak of. The world is upside
2:27:20 > 2:27:24down in the Labour Party, absolutely upside down, it is the Iranian
2:27:24 > 2:27:27authorities against whom she should be directing her attention and her
2:27:27 > 2:27:34anger.While he is correcting inaccurate statements he made to the
2:27:34 > 2:27:38foreign affairs committee last week Tom would he care to correct the
2:27:38 > 2:27:42answer he gave to my honourable friend the Member for Rhondda when
2:27:42 > 2:27:45he said he had seen no evidence of Russian meddling in the EU
2:27:45 > 2:28:01referendum? Come on.The answer to that, Madam Deputy Speaker, is no.
2:28:01 > 2:28:04Madam deputies Speaker, I thank the Foreign Secretary for his comments
2:28:04 > 2:28:10clarifying the case of Mrs Radcliffe and the concerns and convey the
2:28:10 > 2:28:14concerns also from my constituents and I to urge the Foreign Secretary
2:28:14 > 2:28:19to seek an urgent solution to this terrible case. If only because there
2:28:19 > 2:28:25was a very small child, minutes and hours away from their mother, really
2:28:25 > 2:28:31do matter so as he travels to that country, have that in mind. Canales
2:28:31 > 2:28:37go ask my right honourable friend to commend all service personnel
2:28:37 > 2:28:42working so hard against the scourge of Daesh. All our service men and
2:28:42 > 2:28:45women, the exceptional sacrifices they give, we remember this weekend
2:28:45 > 2:28:51in all of our constituencies.I warmly applaud the sentiments my
2:28:51 > 2:28:54honourable friend has just expressed about our serving men and women and
2:28:54 > 2:28:58I think we should all take the opportunity in this statement again
2:28:58 > 2:29:02to recognise their towering achievement in clearing Daesh out of
2:29:02 > 2:29:0990% of the territory they previously occupied in Iraq and Syria.Can I
2:29:09 > 2:29:12suggest that the Foreign Secretary is unwise to talk about the
2:29:12 > 2:29:19collection when he himself is thy looting scrutiny -- the looting
2:29:19 > 2:29:22scrutiny of this appalling issue by wrapping it up in a hugely important
2:29:22 > 2:29:29update to the house on countering Daesh, which he himself reviews,
2:29:29 > 2:29:33despite repeated questions, to come to the house and give at the rack
2:29:33 > 2:29:39had fallen, so let me ask a question about Daesh's to medication. He is
2:29:39 > 2:29:44right to talk about restricting the number of posts which Daesh are able
2:29:44 > 2:29:49to make but what about the counter narrative, which is at least equally
2:29:49 > 2:29:53as important? What new approaches will the Government take now?
2:29:53 > 2:29:58Foreign fighters, UK fighters will be coming back home and potentially
2:29:58 > 2:30:03spreading this?If I may say so, that is an extremely important and
2:30:03 > 2:30:06very good question, because it is all very well trying to divert
2:30:06 > 2:30:10people away from the path of radicalisation and we do what we can
2:30:10 > 2:30:15there. One of the most difficult things is to reverse radicalisation
2:30:15 > 2:30:19once it has taken place, as I think the honourable member understands
2:30:19 > 2:30:24very well. We have a can indications sell as he knows, we are working on
2:30:24 > 2:30:29it and we have all sorts of means to try to do it, but the most important
2:30:29 > 2:30:35thing is to stop them being radicalised in the first place.We
2:30:35 > 2:30:38have got the Foreign Secretary in front of us today, but I do believe
2:30:38 > 2:30:42that he has chosen his words very carefully today and I think we
2:30:42 > 2:30:45should reserve our ire for the evil of this regime, but can I just
2:30:45 > 2:30:50asking what this statement is about, really, which is why did Islamic
2:30:50 > 2:30:54State grow in the first place mark has the Foreign Office finally
2:30:54 > 2:31:00learned the lesson that our catastrophic invasion of Iraq, of
2:31:00 > 2:31:05Libya, our deliberate destabilisation of Syria, has
2:31:05 > 2:31:09unleashed a untold misery and has the Foreign Office really cottoned
2:31:09 > 2:31:15on to the fact that if we undermined deeply unpleasant authoritarian
2:31:15 > 2:31:18leaders, we simply unleashed totalitarian movements like Daesh
2:31:18 > 2:31:24and who suffers? The minorities in the Middle East.My right honourable
2:31:24 > 2:31:30friend makes an important point here that if you look back at 2003, in
2:31:30 > 2:31:36the words of the Chilcot Report, nobody could say that our strategic
2:31:36 > 2:31:41objectives have been entirely obtained -- attained, putting it
2:31:41 > 2:31:48mildly. But there are signs of hope and across the region, there are
2:31:48 > 2:31:54people who are willing to take up the battle of leadership, there are
2:31:54 > 2:31:57international institutions being born. We must support them and we
2:31:57 > 2:32:01must encourage them and we must not disengage. It would be absolutely
2:32:01 > 2:32:06fatal for this country to turn its back on the region and think we can
2:32:06 > 2:32:09thereby somehow insulate ourselves from the problems germinating in
2:32:09 > 2:32:13that region. We must engage, we must support the political process and we
2:32:13 > 2:32:19must be prepared to support freedom and democracy where we can.Given
2:32:19 > 2:32:25the mistakes of the past, the world owes it to the Government of Iraq
2:32:25 > 2:32:29now win the peace. That does require justice and it does require
2:32:29 > 2:32:33prosecutions for genocide. Now because Iraq is not a signatory to
2:32:33 > 2:32:37the Treaty of Rome, those prosecutions will be difficult in
2:32:37 > 2:32:40Iraq, but we can prosecute those 400 plus foreign fighters who have
2:32:40 > 2:32:46returned here to Britain. Yet we have not sent a single one of them
2:32:46 > 2:32:50to The Hague. In fact, in answers to me in this House, the Attorney
2:32:50 > 2:32:55General said the Government is not even keeping figures on which
2:32:55 > 2:32:59foreign fighters have been prosecuted for what. This is, at
2:32:59 > 2:33:02best, slipshod. So can the Foreign Secretary give us an assurance this
2:33:02 > 2:33:07afternoon that he will give us a timetable for when we will send,
2:33:07 > 2:33:09like Germany, people from this country to the International
2:33:09 > 2:33:13criminal Court and throw against them the full weight of
2:33:13 > 2:33:19international law?Again, I think that is an excellent point, Madam
2:33:19 > 2:33:24Deputy Speaker and it is a subject of recurrent anxiety to me that
2:33:24 > 2:33:27people are coming back and although we want to bring the full force of
2:33:27 > 2:33:32the law upon them, it is proving difficult to do so and as he rightly
2:33:32 > 2:33:41says, we haven't yet been able to do that insufficient cases. -- in
2:33:41 > 2:33:45efficient cases. What we are trying to do, and why we passed resolution
2:33:45 > 2:33:49to 379, to make sure we have evidence and make sure that where we
2:33:49 > 2:33:55can get a locus and where we can get caught, he mentions The Hague, we
2:33:55 > 2:33:59will have the facts, the testimony, that will be needed to send those
2:33:59 > 2:34:05people down.On the last occasion the house was updated on the counter
2:34:05 > 2:34:09Daesh campaign, it was confirmed from dispatch box that there were
2:34:09 > 2:34:14zero reported casualties as a result of the United Kingdom's actions in
2:34:14 > 2:34:18Syria and Iraq. Can the Secretary of State update the house as to whether
2:34:18 > 2:34:23this figure is still as low and in doing so, will he join me in
2:34:23 > 2:34:26commending the RAF in carrying out so many campaigns against Daesh, I
2:34:26 > 2:34:32think second only to the United States.I thank my honourable friend
2:34:32 > 2:34:37very much and it is absolutely true that as far as we know, the figures
2:34:37 > 2:34:39that I have seen suggest that we have no reports of civilian
2:34:39 > 2:34:45casualties as a result of RAF action. Obviously we can't be sure,
2:34:45 > 2:34:50but we don't have any evidence and I therefore really do pay tribute to
2:34:50 > 2:34:55the skill and the effort of the RAF crews and very, very brave people
2:34:55 > 2:35:01they are too.May I congratulate the Foreign Secretary on the fact that
2:35:01 > 2:35:0946 countries co-sponsored his UN resolution on bringing Daesh to
2:35:09 > 2:35:11justice, which was then unanimously supported in the Security Council,
2:35:11 > 2:35:17and doesn't this show that Britain is both leading diplomatic efforts
2:35:17 > 2:35:22against Daesh and rallying the international community around the
2:35:22 > 2:35:27supporting cause?It is a vital cause, Madam Deputy Speaker, and we
2:35:27 > 2:35:33will continue to pressure and I am grateful for my honourable friend's
2:35:33 > 2:35:37support.The Foreign Office says it has three strategic objectives in
2:35:37 > 2:35:41the first of these is protecting our people. And my fear from the bluster
2:35:41 > 2:35:44the Foreign Secretary has shown today is that he has learned
2:35:44 > 2:35:50absolutely nothing about what has happened in the last week. He says
2:35:50 > 2:35:54"My point was that I disagreed with the Iranians view that training
2:35:54 > 2:36:00journalists was a crime, not that I lent any credence to allegations
2:36:00 > 2:36:04that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been engaged in such activity" but
2:36:04 > 2:36:09last week, the Foreign Office said to us as a committee that when we
2:36:09 > 2:36:14look at Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and what she was doing, she was
2:36:14 > 2:36:17teaching people journalism. There is not an age old in a country that
2:36:17 > 2:36:21couldn't say to the Foreign Secretary this does not match what
2:36:21 > 2:36:26you said last week. Not a single age old that couldn't tell the Foreign
2:36:26 > 2:36:30Secretary had to do his job better and I fear history can't show some
2:36:30 > 2:36:33contrition today, the honest truth is he shouldn't be in his job
2:36:33 > 2:36:38because our people aren't safe.With great respect, I think I have
2:36:38 > 2:36:46answered the point that The Right Honourable gentleman makes. I was
2:36:46 > 2:36:51giving the foreign affairs committee and a of the allegations raised that
2:36:51 > 2:36:55I had personally heard in the course of my decisions from the Iranians. I
2:36:55 > 2:36:59don't for one minute believe they are true but that is what they say.
2:36:59 > 2:37:06Our job now as diplomats is to get, and I hope we have support of the
2:37:06 > 2:37:09entire House of Commons, is to get Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe released
2:37:09 > 2:37:16and the best way to do that is not to score party political points, but
2:37:16 > 2:37:20to concentrate our energies and our criticism on those who are actually
2:37:20 > 2:37:26responsible for her incarceration. Taking the fight to Daesh in Syria
2:37:26 > 2:37:30was a difficult but right thing to do, eroding their territorial base
2:37:30 > 2:37:35and resources, but in some ways, that was the easy bit because the
2:37:35 > 2:37:38warped ideology and jewels. Does my honourable friend agree we should
2:37:38 > 2:37:43continue to support the security services, including those in my
2:37:43 > 2:37:45constituency, who skilfully and conscientious they are taking the
2:37:45 > 2:37:51fight to the extremists online?I completely agree and provide online
2:37:51 > 2:37:55can be every bit as valuable in saving lives as the struggle in Iraq
2:37:55 > 2:38:04and Syria.Instead of misrepresenting what he said to the
2:38:04 > 2:38:09foreign affairs committee last week, wouldn't it be better if he was to
2:38:09 > 2:38:13write to the foreign affairs committee withdrawing and correcting
2:38:13 > 2:38:19his remarks, so they are no longer on the record?Madam Deputy Speaker,
2:38:19 > 2:38:29I have dealt with that point abundantly.Thank you, Madam Deputy
2:38:29 > 2:38:33Speaker and can I welcome the UK Government's leadership in the fight
2:38:33 > 2:38:36against Daesh and thanked the Foreign Secretary for updating the
2:38:36 > 2:38:41house. Just as we show leadership in this area, isn't it right therefore
2:38:41 > 2:38:45that we bring forward more leadership in the area of cyber
2:38:45 > 2:38:48security and online radicalisation? Can he update the house on more
2:38:48 > 2:38:52detail of the measures taken to tackle the scourge that affects our
2:38:52 > 2:39:00young people's minds?I thank my honourable friend. As I have said to
2:39:00 > 2:39:04the house earlier on, we are stepping up our activity with the
2:39:04 > 2:39:11communications sell that we have, but also trying to work with our
2:39:11 > 2:39:13international friends and partners to get Internet companies to take
2:39:13 > 2:39:19down pre-emptively much of the pollution that appears online and
2:39:19 > 2:39:24that is where our activities are directed at the moment. We need more
2:39:24 > 2:39:31cooperation from the social media companies.As a member of the
2:39:31 > 2:39:33foreign affairs select committee, the only conclusion that many in the
2:39:33 > 2:39:36country can come to after his performance at the committee last
2:39:36 > 2:39:39week is not only is The Right Honourable gentleman ill-equipped to
2:39:39 > 2:39:43be Foreign Secretary but he is indeed an international
2:39:43 > 2:39:46embarrassment. He has been forced to come to this House today and include
2:39:46 > 2:39:51a statement of Mrs Radcliffe as part of his statement on the counter of
2:39:51 > 2:39:54Daesh. He hasn't forced to do that and hasn't corrected the record.
2:39:54 > 2:39:58What he has said in the statement is completely contrary to what he said
2:39:58 > 2:40:01at committee last week, so I give him one last opportunity in response
2:40:01 > 2:40:06to my honourable friend from the Rhondda to correct the record, do
2:40:06 > 2:40:09himself a favour, do the Foreign Office a favour and do the family a
2:40:09 > 2:40:14favour.
2:40:14 > 2:40:18For the sake of brevity I can tell the honourable gentleman Richard
2:40:18 > 2:40:22Ratcliffe himself has welcomed the clarification I have offered today
2:40:22 > 2:40:27and I think I am content with that and we will push on and on that
2:40:27 > 2:40:33basis. I may say to the honourable gentleman, he sat through that
2:40:33 > 2:40:36committee in a statement classy indifference and made no remark at
2:40:36 > 2:40:43all about anything I said either then or two days later our Armed
2:40:43 > 2:40:49Forces can be proud of the work they have done encountering Daesh but
2:40:49 > 2:40:54there is no way this house can be proud of Foreign Secretary because
2:40:54 > 2:40:57he is quite right and others have been right to argue the
2:40:57 > 2:41:02responsibility for the detainment of the British citizen is solely the
2:41:02 > 2:41:06responsibility of the Iranian regime but with the ill judged remarks he
2:41:06 > 2:41:10made last week the only person in this house who did the bidding of
2:41:10 > 2:41:14the Iranian regime was the Foreign Secretary and what is so egregious
2:41:14 > 2:41:18about this whole affair as he did not take ownership of this mistake
2:41:18 > 2:41:24and did not seem to quickly rectify it and he has compute today and
2:41:24 > 2:41:27cannot bring himself to show any contrition or even an apologise.
2:41:27 > 2:41:32This is not a criticism of the party opposite of the finest dogmatic
2:41:32 > 2:41:36servers in the world, it is a criticism firmly of the Foreign
2:41:36 > 2:41:40Secretary who does not have the care and attention necessary to do one of
2:41:40 > 2:41:45the most important jobs in Government.I must respectfully
2:41:45 > 2:41:53repeat the point I have made several times now, which is I have clarified
2:41:53 > 2:41:56the remarks I gave to the Foreign Affairs Committee and pointed out
2:41:56 > 2:42:05the most important conclusion of today, that nothing I said has had
2:42:05 > 2:42:09any impact whatever, contrary to the assertions made repeatedly across
2:42:09 > 2:42:13the house, on the other side of the host, on the judicial proceedings
2:42:13 > 2:42:21taking place in Teheran. I think what we should be doing is working
2:42:21 > 2:42:24together to secure the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and that
2:42:24 > 2:42:32is certainly what we are doing. My constituents, Colin and Rosemary
2:42:32 > 2:42:39are family members of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and they have been
2:42:39 > 2:42:42worried sick by his irresponsible comments. On a human level is the
2:42:42 > 2:42:47Foreign Secretary at all sorry for the roller-coaster of emotions she
2:42:47 > 2:42:51has caused her and her family this week and could yet to apologise to
2:42:51 > 2:42:58them today? Of course, I am sorry if any words
2:42:58 > 2:43:04of mine have been so taken out of context and so misconstrued as to
2:43:04 > 2:43:08cause any kind of anxiety for the family of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.
2:43:08 > 2:43:18Of course I am. But the most important thing is I do not believe,
2:43:18 > 2:43:24and I have this from the Iranians themselves, those words had any
2:43:24 > 2:43:29impact on the judicial process. And we are going to work flat out to
2:43:29 > 2:43:34secure the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. I am very happy
2:43:34 > 2:43:38to have been able to make that qualification to the house today. I
2:43:38 > 2:43:44am delighted is, as I say, Richard Ratcliffe welcomes the clarification
2:43:44 > 2:43:51I have made. As I pass on my thoughts to their constituents and
2:43:51 > 2:43:53the family of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, I would be very
2:43:53 > 2:44:00grateful. It is precisely because many of us
2:44:00 > 2:44:04have many months been working to working to try to secure her release
2:44:04 > 2:44:11that many of us are so upset about this mistake which has been made. I
2:44:11 > 2:44:16accept perhaps inadvertently, we are aware of the impact of her detention
2:44:16 > 2:44:22on her and her family and that is occasioning this extent of this May.
2:44:22 > 2:44:30It is not an attempt to politicise this, it is genuine... I hope the
2:44:30 > 2:44:34Foreign Secretary will go to look at the website of the availing judicial
2:44:34 > 2:44:40authorities where his remarks are repeated for all to see. -- the
2:44:40 > 2:44:44reigning judicial authorities. I think it is difficult for him to
2:44:44 > 2:44:50resolve herself responsibility. We know the Iranian authorities do not
2:44:50 > 2:44:56deal with ambiguity, they need clarity, clear words and we need to
2:44:56 > 2:45:11know -- weekly six words, -- we need sex once. If -- we need six words.
2:45:11 > 2:45:18We need this now from the Foreign Secretary. "I Am sorry, I made a
2:45:18 > 2:45:25mistake. " Please give us those six words now.
2:45:25 > 2:45:33I think the mistake and the fault lies with the Iranian authorities.
2:45:33 > 2:45:38And it is against them she should direct their anger.
2:45:38 > 2:45:45Order. Point of order. The Foreign Secretary has come to
2:45:45 > 2:45:48the house this afternoon to provide a statement clarifying comments that
2:45:48 > 2:45:57were made last week. He said in his statement, my point was I disagreed
2:45:57 > 2:46:01with the reigning view the training journalist was a crime, not that I
2:46:01 > 2:46:04give any credence to intervene in allegations that Nazanin
2:46:04 > 2:46:10Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been engaged in to such activity. The transcript
2:46:10 > 2:46:12says that when we look at what Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was doing
2:46:12 > 2:46:19she was simply teaching people journalism. Those two statements are
2:46:19 > 2:46:24inaccurate and contradictory. Could you also give me advice, the Foreign
2:46:24 > 2:46:27Secretary accused me of being on the foreign affairs select committee
2:46:27 > 2:46:34last week of performing with glassy indifference, was the phrase he
2:46:34 > 2:46:38used. Can I say every does not like me asking questions about Iran and
2:46:38 > 2:46:44US sanctions it was more incredulity at his incompetence in answering the
2:46:44 > 2:46:48questions, and not glassy indifference.
2:46:48 > 2:46:56On his first point, it is not a matter for me to opine on this
2:46:56 > 2:47:00matter. We have had considerable time this afternoon when these
2:47:00 > 2:47:04questions have been put to the Foreign Secretary and the Foreign
2:47:04 > 2:47:08Secretary had answered. If that is a difference of opinion, that is the
2:47:08 > 2:47:13nature of political debate and not a matter for the chair. On the second
2:47:13 > 2:47:16point, if the honourable gentleman has put a rather different
2:47:16 > 2:47:21description to be one the Foreign Secretary gave him and once again
2:47:21 > 2:47:24that is a matter of opinion and the two opinions have been expressed and
2:47:24 > 2:47:29it is not for me to rule one is correct.
2:47:29 > 2:47:35Point of order. Earlier on today during the urgent
2:47:35 > 2:47:44question on the Brexit analysis, the member for Edinburgh South said,
2:47:44 > 2:47:49quite rightly, the Secretary of State for Scotland said the central
2:47:49 > 2:47:54analysis on the impact on Scotland existed and was shared with the
2:47:54 > 2:47:58Scottish Government. My colleagues in the Scottish Government have not
2:47:58 > 2:48:03seen such an analysis despite repeated requests. Can you give us
2:48:03 > 2:48:07some advice on how we can correct the record of this?
2:48:07 > 2:48:11I appreciate the point the honourable gentleman is making but
2:48:11 > 2:48:15once again it is not a matter for the chair. He asks for my advice on
2:48:15 > 2:48:22correcting the record and I think he has just put his issue on the
2:48:22 > 2:48:28records. It will be noted and I am quite sure those on the Treasury
2:48:28 > 2:48:32bench will note it. I thank the honourable gentleman for his point
2:48:32 > 2:48:40of order and we now come to presentation of a bill. Secretary
2:48:40 > 2:48:50Liam Fox. Trade bill.Second reading. What
2:48:50 > 2:48:58they? Monday the 13th of November. Monday the 13th of November. We will
2:48:58 > 2:49:07now consider the ten minute rule motion on leasehold reform.
2:49:07 > 2:49:12I beg to move that please be given to bring in a bill to make provision
2:49:12 > 2:49:15about the regulation of the purchase of freehold by leaseholders to
2:49:15 > 2:49:19introduce a system for establishing a maximum charge for such freehold
2:49:19 > 2:49:24to make provision about the award of legal costs in all property Tribunal
2:49:24 > 2:49:28cases and established compensation scheme for cases were misleading
2:49:28 > 2:49:33have led to certain leasehold agreements. The working title of
2:49:33 > 2:49:37this bill is the leasehold reform Bill but it has been suggested to me
2:49:37 > 2:49:41a better title might be the leasehold emancipation bill because
2:49:41 > 2:49:45while I welcome the Government's recent consultation on end the
2:49:45 > 2:49:49unfair useful practices and would urge ministers to hold their nerve
2:49:49 > 2:49:53in ending this, there is little suggest it will address the ongoing
2:49:53 > 2:49:56situation of existing leaseholders, many of whom feel trapped in their
2:49:56 > 2:50:00homes. There is genuine cross-party support for this and I hope that
2:50:00 > 2:50:05will uncover when -- encourage the Government to facilitate its passage
2:50:05 > 2:50:09through Parliament or at least come up with a bill of their own. On
2:50:09 > 2:50:12cross-party support I would like to take the opportunity to pay tribute
2:50:12 > 2:50:18to the members for Worthing West who have been true champions of the
2:50:18 > 2:50:24leasehold community. The principal aim of the bill is to deliver a fair
2:50:24 > 2:50:28and simple mechanism to help tens of thousands of our constituents escape
2:50:28 > 2:50:31from our current leasehold agreements and before I set out how
2:50:31 > 2:50:34that will work in practice I will briefly explain the background. Many
2:50:34 > 2:50:40of my constituents and those of other members have spoken about how
2:50:40 > 2:50:46they thought they were buying their dream home is new housing
2:50:46 > 2:50:50developments. Many but not all knew the property was being sold to them
2:50:50 > 2:50:59on basis but very few were fully aware of the finer detail of what
2:50:59 > 2:51:04they were signing up to. Almost all were left with the impression they
2:51:04 > 2:51:07would have first refusal on the freehold of the property at it could
2:51:07 > 2:51:14be purchased for a reasonable price. Figures quoted for this work driven
2:51:14 > 2:51:18and bear little resemblance to the figures they were given later on
2:51:18 > 2:51:23because shortly after they moved in the freehold on the property had
2:51:23 > 2:51:27been sold to a third party, without their consent. In many cases the
2:51:27 > 2:51:32freehold has been moved offshore so what they thought was their home had
2:51:32 > 2:51:35become the property of the shady and secretive string of companies
2:51:35 > 2:51:39operating from a tax haven, often it is impossible to say who the
2:51:39 > 2:51:43ultimate beneficiary is. Under the terms of the lease and an order
2:51:43 > 2:51:47could continue to live in their own home they are charged an annual
2:51:47 > 2:51:50growth letter which in some cases will double every two years, taking
2:51:50 > 2:51:56an initially modest sum to an exorbitant annual fee within their
2:51:56 > 2:52:00lifetime. In some cases that renders the property and sellable. This
2:52:00 > 2:52:05ground rent is separate and in addition to the service and
2:52:05 > 2:52:08maintenance charge. While those charges pay for something that is
2:52:08 > 2:52:13clearly defined I have never been given a satisfactory answer as to
2:52:13 > 2:52:18what ground rent pays for other than to give an additional cash flow for
2:52:18 > 2:52:23the builder. The person living in the house gets nothing in return for
2:52:23 > 2:52:27their annual payments. When those living in the leasehold home
2:52:27 > 2:52:32enquired about whether the new owner is willing to sell their often told
2:52:32 > 2:52:37no. I have had to threaten freeholders with them the names on
2:52:37 > 2:52:42the floor of the house to elicit a response and nor is the response
2:52:42 > 2:52:46consistent. Neighbours then almost identical houses in my constituency
2:52:46 > 2:52:49have been quartered where the different prices. It was but
2:52:49 > 2:52:55dramatic my attention a situation in another constituency where residents
2:52:55 > 2:53:02were asked to Pete Reed additional songs to avoid their leasehold being
2:53:02 > 2:53:06sold to... A lucky few were given theirs for free and such an
2:53:06 > 2:53:08inconsistent and unfair approach could no longer be possible under
2:53:08 > 2:53:13this bill. When they eventually received the quote for purchasing
2:53:13 > 2:53:18the freehold there are often quoted an astronomical sum and told that as
2:53:18 > 2:53:22non-negotiable. These are always many p higher at anything in the
2:53:22 > 2:53:27developer's sales staff would have told them. The same is true when
2:53:27 > 2:53:29residents of a block of flats sort of flats sought to purchase their
2:53:29 > 2:53:36freehold. Instead of the simple purchase for a set price the
2:53:36 > 2:53:39developer led them to expect they could take advantage of instead they
2:53:39 > 2:53:45enter into the expensive and convoluted process of incessant
2:53:45 > 2:53:50horse trading that exist to establish correct valuations and
2:53:50 > 2:53:53providing lucrative market for surveyors and lawyers. It is often
2:53:53 > 2:53:57the case the provisions of the recent require the person wanting to
2:53:57 > 2:54:03buy the freehold have to pay the freehold's cost. We have a situation
2:54:03 > 2:54:07where they are footing the bill for the cost of professionals whose job
2:54:07 > 2:54:10it is to maximise the amount of money they will take of you. The
2:54:10 > 2:54:16first aim of this bill is to introduce a fair and transparent
2:54:16 > 2:54:22scheme and pricing model cap that no more than ten times the annual... At
2:54:22 > 2:54:29the more leasehold is often quoted very high prices and we can change
2:54:29 > 2:54:34lives. Such a system exist in countries such as Scotland and
2:54:34 > 2:54:36Northern Ireland and it is people in England and Wales have the same
2:54:36 > 2:54:42rights. would involve a simple form to cotula the value of the freehold
2:54:42 > 2:54:49based on the ground rent and years left on the lease and a cap of the
2:54:49 > 2:54:51maximum payable. Everyone knows that the outset what they are dealing
2:54:51 > 2:54:57with. Although bad news for lawyers and surveyors in this field, it
2:54:57 > 2:55:00would enable constituents to finally own their own homes in a
2:55:00 > 2:55:02straightforward way and provide security for their futures.
2:55:02 > 2:55:07Currently, too many leaseholders are prevented from exercising their
2:55:07 > 2:55:12rights because they can't afford to do so. One retired couple paid
2:55:12 > 2:55:15£38,000 to buy their freehold. They are being ripped off when they first
2:55:15 > 2:55:18by the house and then ripped up again when they try to buy the
2:55:18 > 2:55:22freehold. The second provision of the bill seeks to balance the
2:55:22 > 2:55:28awarding of costs and property Tribunal is. The balance of power --
2:55:28 > 2:55:31imbalance of power between leaseholder and freehold and ensures
2:55:31 > 2:55:35a leaseholder won't have to pay a freehold's cost to ensure their own
2:55:35 > 2:55:39rights under the lease. Finally, I have deep concerns about the
2:55:39 > 2:55:42information provided to purchasers by developers and also the advice
2:55:42 > 2:55:47given by solicitors who are often recommended by the developer which
2:55:47 > 2:55:51is why I'm calling for statutory compensation. I labelled this
2:55:51 > 2:55:54scandal the PPI of the house-building industry and that
2:55:54 > 2:55:58phrase has caught on because of those similarities. We need a
2:55:58 > 2:56:01similar process to compensate those who have fallen victim to this camp.
2:56:01 > 2:56:06I have evidence where developers insisted purchasers used solicitors
2:56:06 > 2:56:10nominated by them for the sale to go ahead or offered large incentives
2:56:10 > 2:56:14like paying legal fees and a leaseholder and in many cases,
2:56:14 > 2:56:16buyers were put under pressure to use a recommended solicitor because
2:56:16 > 2:56:20they were told there was a short window of time available to complete
2:56:20 > 2:56:24the purchase and only a solicitor from their panel would be able to
2:56:24 > 2:56:27complete the relevant searches within this time frame. This meant
2:56:27 > 2:56:32many of my constituents used firms whose advice on these leases was
2:56:32 > 2:56:35that they were standard documents. That might have been standard for
2:56:35 > 2:56:39that development but it doesn't make it fair or reasonable. The third
2:56:39 > 2:56:43element of my bill therefore seeks to establish in law a system of
2:56:43 > 2:56:47compensation where misleading people has led to certain leaseholder
2:56:47 > 2:56:51agreements. I would ask for a full independent inquiry to take place to
2:56:51 > 2:56:55look into relationships between developers, freeholders, finance
2:56:55 > 2:57:00companies and conveyancers in order to establish how the system has left
2:57:00 > 2:57:04so many innocent people ripped off. It is time we held to account the
2:57:04 > 2:57:06guilty men and women who must've known that the scam would ultimately
2:57:06 > 2:57:11be up the cost of their customers. The leasehold scandal is one that
2:57:11 > 2:57:15nobody emerges from with credit, Government, lenders, freeholders and
2:57:15 > 2:57:19lawyers have all played a role but I must reserve the lion's share of
2:57:19 > 2:57:25obloquy for those developers who have deliberately and systematically
2:57:25 > 2:57:29created a set of toxic assets with those left in the lurch finding the
2:57:29 > 2:57:32biggest purchase of their life is a pub. When people bought their
2:57:32 > 2:57:35houses, they thought they were doing that, buying their home. But
2:57:35 > 2:57:40whenever complicate -- thought of a moment was the owner of the home was
2:57:40 > 2:57:44someone they never knew the identity of who could sell the lion's share
2:57:44 > 2:57:47of the property to someone else without their consent. We need to
2:57:47 > 2:57:51give people the chance to escape the trap. Adam Deputy Speaker, it will
2:57:51 > 2:57:55take years before the stench of ignominy that envelops those
2:57:55 > 2:57:58developers wears off but this bill may hope in that process because
2:57:58 > 2:58:02until we come up with an effective way to release people from the
2:58:02 > 2:58:05shackles of leasehold, the authors of this injustice will never be
2:58:05 > 2:58:10forgiven. I commend this to the house.Question is that the
2:58:10 > 2:58:14honourable member of leave to bring in the bill. As many of that opinion
2:58:14 > 2:58:21say I? On the contrary, no. The "ayes" have it. The "ayes" have it.
2:58:21 > 2:58:28Who will prepare and bring in the bill?Lynn Fitzpatrick, said Peter
2:58:28 > 2:58:33Bottomley, David Hanson, Ian Austin, Mary Clinton, Justin Tomlinson, Ruth
2:58:33 > 2:58:38George, Bill Stenson, Gareth Thomas, Derek Twigg and myself.
2:58:54 > 2:59:07Well done.Hear hear.
2:59:12 > 2:59:18Birnerova leasehold reform bill. Second reading, what day? Friday the
2:59:18 > 2:59:282nd of February, 2018.Friday, the 2nd of February, 2018.Hear hear.We
2:59:28 > 2:59:33now come to the debate on a backbench business motion on
2:59:33 > 2:59:37temporary accommodation. Siobhan-Marie O'Connor to move the
2:59:37 > 2:59:46motion.Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the backbench
2:59:46 > 2:59:52business committee for granting today's debate on such an important
2:59:52 > 2:59:57issue. The housing market is broken, that was the damning verdict of The
2:59:57 > 3:00:00Right Honourable Secretary of State for communities and that of an
3:00:00 > 3:00:06earlier this year. The 9712 residents on the housing register
3:00:06 > 3:00:09where my constituency is based in the London Borough of Merton would
3:00:09 > 3:00:14absolutely agree with him. Perhaps the most visible indication of the
3:00:14 > 3:00:18broken housing market is the thousands of people sleeping on our
3:00:18 > 3:00:23streets, but the homeless crisis that this country faces is far
3:00:23 > 3:00:28greater and it is hidden, hidden in hostels, hidden in the and thes and
3:00:28 > 3:00:32the heart of an industrial estate. If they homeless applicant has
3:00:32 > 3:00:38nowhere to stay and is priority need, the local authority has a duty
3:00:38 > 3:00:41to ensure immediate temporary accommodation is made available.
3:00:41 > 3:00:49This is the reality of the 78,180 households across the country, where
3:00:49 > 3:00:52121,170 children did not have a permanent home. This staggering
3:00:52 > 3:01:01figure is rising fast...I am grateful both for her getting this
3:01:01 > 3:01:06debate and her giving way to me. Though she accept through Universal
3:01:06 > 3:01:10Credit, we have now got a state recruiter to the numbers of people
3:01:10 > 3:01:15who will be homeless. We know more will be hungry, the Government is
3:01:15 > 3:01:22collecting no figures on that, nor on the theme of her debate, which is
3:01:22 > 3:01:24homelessness, and isn't that a shameful reflection on the
3:01:24 > 3:01:29Government's concern? Slick work and I agree with my right honourable
3:01:29 > 3:01:33friend and thank him for all of the work he has done for the most
3:01:33 > 3:01:38forgotten in our society over decades. The truth is that Universal
3:01:38 > 3:01:43Credit will be yet another driver to force families out of the private
3:01:43 > 3:01:47rented sector, where personally I believe most of them should not be
3:01:47 > 3:01:52in the first place.The staggering figure of homeless families is
3:01:52 > 3:01:58moving fast, with an additional 960 households in temporary
3:01:58 > 3:02:02accommodation in the last quarter alone. Incidentally, this figure has
3:02:02 > 3:02:07risen a quarter on quarter since 2010, with the number of children in
3:02:07 > 3:02:12temporary accommodation increased by 66% since the Conservatives came to
3:02:12 > 3:02:21power. Despite public misperception, housing benefit data suggests that a
3:02:21 > 3:02:24third of householders in temporary accommodation in England are in
3:02:24 > 3:02:27work, rising to half of households in the temporary accommodation in
3:02:27 > 3:02:32London. But three quarters of families in temporary accommodation
3:02:32 > 3:02:37in London have been there for more than six months, with one in ten
3:02:37 > 3:02:42therefore more than a not so temporary five years, and that is
3:02:42 > 3:02:46without mentioning the cases in Harrow and Camden of households in
3:02:46 > 3:02:51temporary accommodation for a baffling 19 years. Of course, these
3:02:51 > 3:02:57are extreme cases but the fact is that more than 100 councils across
3:02:57 > 3:02:59the country have households living in temporary accommodation for
3:02:59 > 3:03:06longer than a year. Can I clear -- make it clear, the purpose of my
3:03:06 > 3:03:09debate is not to bash local authorities. They are dealing with
3:03:09 > 3:03:12very difficult situations as best they can and I would like to pay
3:03:12 > 3:03:17particular praise to the head of my housing department in Merton, Steve
3:03:17 > 3:03:21Langley, who I've known for over 20 years and I have seen the distress
3:03:21 > 3:03:26that it causes him to place families hundreds of miles away from home and
3:03:26 > 3:03:30in accommodation that he would not accept for his own family and I give
3:03:30 > 3:03:36thanks for his public service. But there is a cost to the taxpayer as
3:03:36 > 3:03:40well. In November 2016, the BBC reported that councils in Britain
3:03:40 > 3:03:44have spent more than £3.5 billion on temporary accommodation over the
3:03:44 > 3:03:51last five years. A net cost that has tripled in the last three years
3:03:51 > 3:03:56alone. Now that the scene is set, I would like to make three main
3:03:56 > 3:04:02reasons that I have called to the's debate won one. I will stop without
3:04:02 > 3:04:05a borough temporary housing before moving on the need for enforcement
3:04:05 > 3:04:09of current legislation and finished by assessing the standard of
3:04:09 > 3:04:14temporary accommodation for the 70,000 families. That started
3:04:14 > 3:04:19housing outside a borough. Over 28% of households in temporary
3:04:19 > 3:04:23accommodation are housed outside their local authority area, are
3:04:23 > 3:04:33simply remarkable increase of 248% between March 2011 and March 2017.
3:04:33 > 3:04:37For London boroughs, that figure increases to a staggering 36% of
3:04:37 > 3:04:41households, with a number being placed outside the capital rising
3:04:41 > 3:04:47fivefold since 2012 alone. Last year, the London Borough of Harrow
3:04:47 > 3:04:51temporarily moved residence as far as Bradford, Wolverhampton and even
3:04:51 > 3:04:58Glasgow. A regular recipient of the residences Birmingham. The scale of
3:04:58 > 3:05:01the issue illustrated by a letter from Birmingham City Council to all
3:05:01 > 3:05:05London councils calling for this to end, with their resources at
3:05:05 > 3:05:11breaking point. For these families, that is 140 miles away from their
3:05:11 > 3:05:18homes, their children's schools and their friends, family and community.
3:05:18 > 3:05:22Only last Thursday, my office to the call at 5pm from a lady who was told
3:05:22 > 3:05:27she was to go off to Birmingham with her four children under the age of
3:05:27 > 3:05:32eight. It took a collection from the parents at her children's school to
3:05:32 > 3:05:35pay for a Travelodge that night before she was offered a one-bedroom
3:05:35 > 3:05:40flat for herself and her four children the next day. Similarly, at
3:05:40 > 3:05:46my advice surgery last Friday, I met a full-time nurse from St Helier
3:05:46 > 3:05:49Hospital who had just been offered temporary accommodation 44 miles
3:05:49 > 3:05:57away in Luton. Meanwhile, for a homeless resident in Kensington,
3:05:57 > 3:06:00Chelsea, there is a remarkable 72% chance that their temporary
3:06:00 > 3:06:06accommodation will be outside their borough. It seems ard, therefore,
3:06:06 > 3:06:09that the Communities and Local Government Secretary state that
3:06:09 > 3:06:12housing people away from their homes and support networks should be an
3:06:12 > 3:06:21action of last resort.I do apologise, but I am both intrigued
3:06:21 > 3:06:26and appalled by the record she is giving us, because in fact, it is
3:06:26 > 3:06:30worse than the poor law. In the Poor law, you were sent back to the
3:06:30 > 3:06:35village they thought you came from. Under these rules, you are sent back
3:06:35 > 3:06:39to any old village or city, providing the local authority can
3:06:39 > 3:06:49actually done is on them -- dump family on them.There are 22,000
3:06:49 > 3:06:53households currently facing such a last resort and being placed in
3:06:53 > 3:06:58temporary accommodation outside their borough. When local authority
3:06:58 > 3:07:02undertakes its housing duty to people, placing them in temporary
3:07:02 > 3:07:05accommodation in another borough, they should notify the receiving
3:07:05 > 3:07:10borough that they have done so according to the Housing act 1996.
3:07:10 > 3:07:13That notice should be in writing and at least 14 days before the
3:07:13 > 3:07:19householders placed in the area. If the department confident that each
3:07:19 > 3:07:24of these households is accounted for in the new temporary home. A letter
3:07:24 > 3:07:30I received from Thurrock Council, who had 183 placements from London
3:07:30 > 3:07:35boroughs in attendance April 20 16th of February 2017 highlighted, and
3:07:35 > 3:07:41the chief executive said "Unfortunately, our experience has
3:07:41 > 3:07:44been that the notifications are either not sent or sent to the wrong
3:07:44 > 3:07:49contact within the Council. Over the past cover housing departments have
3:07:49 > 3:07:52noticed an increasing the number of cases who report they were placed in
3:07:52 > 3:07:59borough from London without the formal notification been received."
3:07:59 > 3:08:03Whilst housing outside a borough itself is not unlawful, councils are
3:08:03 > 3:08:06legally obliged to ensure relocation is a suitable and appropriate for
3:08:06 > 3:08:11the family circumstances, taking in potential disruption for education,
3:08:11 > 3:08:16medical needs and employment into account. Does the Minister agree
3:08:16 > 3:08:21with me that the processes must be put in place and have to be enforced
3:08:21 > 3:08:24to ensure a receiving local authority is fully aware of a
3:08:24 > 3:08:30family's arrival and can ensure that they receive the health care,
3:08:30 > 3:08:35education and welfare support they are entitled to once they are there?
3:08:35 > 3:08:37Then there is the issue of enforcement of current legislation
3:08:37 > 3:08:43on the issue. In 2004, the homeless the suitability of accommodation
3:08:43 > 3:08:47order came into force, providing that homeless families with children
3:08:47 > 3:08:52should not be placed in a B and B in accepting our emergency. Such an
3:08:52 > 3:08:59emergency were to arrive, it would the no longer than six weeks. As of
3:08:59 > 3:09:05June this year, 6660 families are temporarily house in B and B, three
3:09:05 > 3:09:11times as many as when the Conservatives came to power in 2010.
3:09:11 > 3:09:16A deplorable 2710 of these households are trapped in the and
3:09:16 > 3:09:21bees and include children and for 1200 of those families, their living
3:09:21 > 3:09:26hell has gone on for far longer than the six-week legal limit, with the
3:09:26 > 3:09:30local authorities housing them quite simply breaking the law. One of
3:09:30 > 3:09:35these families joins us in the gallery today. Kelly's family were
3:09:35 > 3:09:40evicted earlier this year. Homeless, Sutton Council plays Kelly, her
3:09:40 > 3:09:44husband and her two young children in a single room in a b&b in
3:09:44 > 3:09:50Wimbledon. They had low -- so little space that Kelly's stepson had to
3:09:50 > 3:09:54leave the family home. For ten weeks, the family was left in one
3:09:54 > 3:09:59tiny room, hidden from society in a b&b. No one told Kelly when a
3:09:59 > 3:10:04nightmare would end. After ten long weeks, Kelly is finally now out of
3:10:04 > 3:10:10b&b, though her temporary home is not much better.
3:10:10 > 3:10:15She says she does not feel safe there and I completely understand.
3:10:15 > 3:10:19The other does not work, the electrics are precarious and the
3:10:19 > 3:10:31flimsy front door is not secure. She was told there is no planning
3:10:31 > 3:10:36permission for the flat she lives in to exist.
3:10:36 > 3:10:41I am grateful to my honourable friend for the manner in which she
3:10:41 > 3:10:48leading this debate. Does she think it is a violation of human rights we
3:10:48 > 3:10:52have so many people living in these Dickensian conditions?
3:10:52 > 3:10:57I think it is an abuse of human rights and a moral duty on behalf of
3:10:57 > 3:11:03all of us to bring a resolution to this. As for her daughter, she is
3:11:03 > 3:11:08old enough to question but too young to understand their situation. When
3:11:08 > 3:11:12she returns from school she asks why none of her friends have two share a
3:11:12 > 3:11:16room with their parents, both Kelly and her husband whole darn good jobs
3:11:16 > 3:11:21and she tells me she simply does not know how to get out of this
3:11:21 > 3:11:26situation and if she complained she fears she will be moved far away
3:11:26 > 3:11:30from her children's school and the job. Birmingham City Council
3:11:30 > 3:11:39currently has 85 children and families in B&Bs for more than six
3:11:39 > 3:11:44weeks while other councils have done similar for longer than the legal
3:11:44 > 3:11:53limit of six weeks. Take another family, two young brave girls I met
3:11:53 > 3:11:57in Parliament a fortnight ago after living in their friend's house for
3:11:57 > 3:12:00over a year they became homeless and had to move to temporary
3:12:00 > 3:12:05accommodation away from their friends, family and school. A double
3:12:05 > 3:12:09bed, single bed and bunk beds filled their tiny room with their bathroom
3:12:09 > 3:12:13and kitchen shared with another family. They tell me they felt
3:12:13 > 3:12:18brushed under the carpet because they were on scene from society, too
3:12:18 > 3:12:23ashamed to open the curtains to the outside world and this makes her
3:12:23 > 3:12:29recent GCSE success even more remarkable and I congratulate her
3:12:29 > 3:12:33for her well-deserved achievements. Does the Minister agree with me a
3:12:33 > 3:12:38B&B is no place for her or any family for longer than six weeks and
3:12:38 > 3:12:42the existence of the law against that is superfluous if there is no
3:12:42 > 3:12:48way to enforce it? What tangible changes as he suggest to ensure
3:12:48 > 3:12:53local authorities abide by the law and this chamber -- that this
3:12:53 > 3:12:57chamber has agreed upon. Behind the facts and figures these are real
3:12:57 > 3:13:01homes, real people and real families and in my own constituency, one very
3:13:01 > 3:13:10real building named Her House. At my surgery this name has become an
3:13:10 > 3:13:14increasingly regular feature of the past year with constituents are
3:13:14 > 3:13:18first constituency calling me for help, desperate to escape what they
3:13:18 > 3:13:24described to me as their living nightmare. It is very difficult to
3:13:24 > 3:13:27summarise the conditions of Connect house without visiting in person so
3:13:27 > 3:13:33at the end of this debate I invite each and every member to join me in
3:13:33 > 3:13:37committee room number nine where I will be releasing a video so each of
3:13:37 > 3:13:42you and the general public can see for your own eyes the appalling
3:13:42 > 3:13:47conditions the 84 families living inside Connect house find himself
3:13:47 > 3:13:52in. I will do my best to find the right words for now. Willow Lane
3:13:52 > 3:13:56industrial estate is home to a plethora of successful businesses,
3:13:56 > 3:14:01from timber windows to scare for those to join us, one of the busiest
3:14:01 > 3:14:06industrial estate in South London. Almost two years ago there was a
3:14:06 > 3:14:10peculiar change in the state with the business is beginning to north
3:14:10 > 3:14:16as prams walking before their front doors, children playing whilst
3:14:16 > 3:14:19lorries and vans race through, they began to notice hundreds of
3:14:19 > 3:14:26residents using their working industrial estate as a home. Connect
3:14:26 > 3:14:31house is at the heart of this is the house is 84 families placed there by
3:14:31 > 3:14:37four different local authorities. There is little collaboration
3:14:37 > 3:14:41between authorities as to who is placed in Connect house, heightening
3:14:41 > 3:14:45the danger of vulnerable residents being placed amongst completely
3:14:45 > 3:14:51inappropriate neighbours. To reach the latest amenities the residents
3:14:51 > 3:14:55have to walk through the industrial Street, castling the pavements,
3:14:55 > 3:15:02causing those with prams onto the road. The local workers are not
3:15:02 > 3:15:07expecting 84 families to be living on their industrial estate. Wastes
3:15:07 > 3:15:11around the Connect house with industrial bins ill-equipped for the
3:15:11 > 3:15:16residents' needs. This attracts rats and Fox's letter across the adjacent
3:15:16 > 3:15:20car park. O is also found throughout the building itself, with
3:15:20 > 3:15:28considerable damage. It is not staffed at evenings or weekends,
3:15:28 > 3:15:31what one resident finding herself locked up in the middle of an
3:15:31 > 3:15:36industrial estate were arriving back at night. A single key fob is
3:15:36 > 3:15:40allocated to each room and additional fobs come at a cost of
3:15:40 > 3:15:48the deposit of £20. For those who are able to enter one resident told
3:15:48 > 3:15:51me of the danger she and her daughter had been an when a man was
3:15:51 > 3:15:58able to follow her to her front door. These doors have neither a spy
3:15:58 > 3:16:04hole nor a chain for safety. For the vulnerable family their security is
3:16:04 > 3:16:07nothing more than a thin door separating their home from the
3:16:07 > 3:16:13industrial estate. There is no communal room in Connect house,
3:16:13 > 3:16:17neither is there any way for the children to go other than their tiny
3:16:17 > 3:16:22bedroom where they are so often forced to share a bed with their
3:16:22 > 3:16:24parents and siblings. They complain of children running through
3:16:24 > 3:16:31corridors all night whilst the car park outside has been described as a
3:16:31 > 3:16:35playground. With the Minister agree an industrial estate car park is not
3:16:35 > 3:16:42a fit playground for the hundreds of children inside Connect house?
3:16:42 > 3:16:44Residents and businesses have described Connect house as an
3:16:44 > 3:16:50accident waiting to happen and a death trap. Yet this is probably
3:16:50 > 3:16:54Bromley council have not even visited, despite placing their
3:16:54 > 3:16:58families there. They argue there is simply not enough time or resources
3:16:58 > 3:17:03to be able to do so and in their own words, this is compounded by the
3:17:03 > 3:17:06fact a significant number of properties are out of the borough.
3:17:06 > 3:17:11The remote location of the building means there are no immediate shot or
3:17:11 > 3:17:16immunities for residents. The location is so remote that even an
3:17:16 > 3:17:21ambulance was unable to find it when called for a heavily pregnant lady
3:17:21 > 3:17:27Howe stayer who had to have her baby in the car park outside. It fills me
3:17:27 > 3:17:31with sadness to tell the chamber that particular baby is no longer
3:17:31 > 3:17:35with us. This is a property that promotes the landlord with an
3:17:35 > 3:17:42estimated and simply staggering up to £1.5 million of taxpayer money
3:17:42 > 3:17:47each year, with local authority charge between 30 and £40 per room
3:17:47 > 3:17:52per night. Connect house is a 21st-century multi-million pound
3:17:52 > 3:17:57death trap in the middle of my constituency. In the gallery today
3:17:57 > 3:18:02said dozens of residents from Connect house and joining us year to
3:18:02 > 3:18:05have their voices heard and to find out why the Government considers
3:18:05 > 3:18:10felt like to be a suitable place for them to live, to listen to what
3:18:10 > 3:18:14changes the Minister will propose before this death trap takes its
3:18:14 > 3:18:19next victim and from down here in this chamber I would like to tell
3:18:19 > 3:18:23their experiences, challenges and stories. Laura shares a room with
3:18:23 > 3:18:28her teenage daughter despite having a spinal disability. I room is so
3:18:28 > 3:18:39small she had to move items out just to show me inside. She sleeps in her
3:18:39 > 3:18:41bed in the day saw her daughter can sleep better at night. Then there's
3:18:41 > 3:18:44Alice, who had a three hour return journey to collect her children from
3:18:44 > 3:18:47school, finishing at the transport boats to the industrial estate. It
3:18:47 > 3:18:55is dark when she returns and so they always hope they will make it
3:18:55 > 3:19:00safely. Finally Sarah, whose two children are not yet of school age
3:19:00 > 3:19:04and so are confined every day to the industrial estate and it is no
3:19:04 > 3:19:07wonder when her baby boy was taken to the doctors with a cough the
3:19:07 > 3:19:11doctor put it down to the constant fumes he was hailing from the
3:19:11 > 3:19:17factories outside the window. There is a Connect house in so many of our
3:19:17 > 3:19:21constituencies and today is our chance to shine a light on them.
3:19:21 > 3:19:24What can be done? If there are tangible actions that should be
3:19:24 > 3:19:30taken and let them be as follows. Firstly, if a local authority is
3:19:30 > 3:19:32forced to Houston resident and another local authority area does
3:19:32 > 3:19:40the Minister agree it is fundamental of it is a designated officer in the
3:19:40 > 3:19:44receiving authority who is clearly informed of their arrival sort of
3:19:44 > 3:19:49their safety and welfare can be insured? Secondly, I cannot help but
3:19:49 > 3:19:54question why we have laws and regulations regarding temporary
3:19:54 > 3:19:59accommodation if they are simply not enforced. Does the Minister agree
3:19:59 > 3:20:03local authorities should be held to account for the regulations this
3:20:03 > 3:20:07chamber is decided upon? Assuming so, how does he propose to ensure
3:20:07 > 3:20:14families like Kelly's art no longer in the greenhouse in B&Bs for more
3:20:14 > 3:20:19than six weeks? And do the Minister and my colleagues agree with me
3:20:19 > 3:20:23there should be a minimum standard for temporary accommodation and the
3:20:23 > 3:20:27conditions I have today described simply not fit for purpose? For
3:20:27 > 3:20:31anyone in any doubt, I encourage you to join me in committee room line
3:20:31 > 3:20:38after debate. The 70,180 families in temporary accommodation are heading
3:20:38 > 3:20:44for our society, whether in a hostel, B&B or an industrial estate.
3:20:44 > 3:20:50-- hidden in our society. Many of those families sit proudly in the
3:20:50 > 3:20:54House of Commons and a story will be held on zero I call on each of us to
3:20:54 > 3:20:58be their voice and to call for change.
3:20:58 > 3:21:06The question as it's on the order paper.
3:21:06 > 3:21:11I congratulate the November for securing this debate and also the
3:21:11 > 3:21:16passionate way she has delivered the debate -- I congratulate the
3:21:16 > 3:21:22honourable member. I can certainly say I agree with almost every word
3:21:22 > 3:21:30she uttered in relation to her desire to see regulation of proper
3:21:30 > 3:21:38appropriate measures on temporary accommodation. The situation on
3:21:38 > 3:21:41temporary accommodation should be looked at as a threefold. It is a
3:21:41 > 3:21:48case when people are faced with the crisis of homelessness and they
3:21:48 > 3:21:53approached a local authority that is the crisis point. Because they then
3:21:53 > 3:21:56have no place to live and the local authority have to finding somewhere
3:21:56 > 3:22:03to live, presuming they are priority needs a home was immediately, which
3:22:03 > 3:22:08is expensive and means that the accommodation is not suitable and
3:22:08 > 3:22:14right now it is the case in London, certainly, it is likely to be an
3:22:14 > 3:22:19offer of accommodation we outside the area they have been living.
3:22:19 > 3:22:27There are two other elements of homelessness. The first is, as the
3:22:27 > 3:22:29honourable lady mentioned, families that have been living in temporary
3:22:29 > 3:22:37accommodation for 19 years or more. The reality is most people who own
3:22:37 > 3:22:42their own home move on average every seven years so someone in temporary
3:22:42 > 3:22:48accommodation for that length of time is an absurdity, frankly and
3:22:48 > 3:22:52quite clearly we need to take appropriate action. There is also
3:22:52 > 3:22:57another for temporary accommodation that happens, when someone literally
3:22:57 > 3:23:03has nowhere to move but lives with friends and switched on the sofas or
3:23:03 > 3:23:09other accommodation. That is a hidden form of homelessness but
3:23:09 > 3:23:15quite clearly a form of temporary accommodation. I am pleased to say
3:23:15 > 3:23:20my Homelessness Reduction Act which secured all-party support and
3:23:20 > 3:23:25support from the front benches of both parties, and right across the
3:23:25 > 3:23:30host, has gone through its processes and coming in in due course on the
3:23:30 > 3:23:351st of April 2018 and that produces some remedies for what the
3:23:35 > 3:23:40honourable lady was referring to. The first being on a concession from
3:23:40 > 3:23:44the Government we have the duty on local authorities, if they place
3:23:44 > 3:23:53anyone in accommodation, the local authority must visit and inspect
3:23:53 > 3:23:56those promises and make sure they are fit for accommodation and fit
3:23:56 > 3:24:02for purpose. That is something we should see all local authorities and
3:24:02 > 3:24:06old colleagues should make sure their local authorities order that
3:24:06 > 3:24:11requirement.
3:24:11 > 3:24:17Justice, there can be anything in law, if it is not enforced, it
3:24:17 > 3:24:22doesn't work -- just say. So unless there is an Ofsted, CQC for housing,
3:24:22 > 3:24:28it isn't going to work.I thank the Honourable lady, and she is
3:24:28 > 3:24:30absolutely right. Unless laws are enforced, there's not much point in
3:24:30 > 3:24:34having them and clearly that is something that has to take place and
3:24:34 > 3:24:38one of the things I will ask the Minister to do and when he responds
3:24:38 > 3:24:42is to say what he is doing to make sure that we actually have
3:24:42 > 3:24:47enforcement of the existing rules, because some of the points the
3:24:47 > 3:24:52honourable lady has mentioned clearly fall foul of the existing
3:24:52 > 3:24:56requirements on authorities and are not being properly enforced. So I
3:24:56 > 3:25:01think one of the issues is we have to deal with the consequences of
3:25:01 > 3:25:06this temporary accommodation crisis and the reality is in London, it is
3:25:06 > 3:25:10something of the order of £600 million a year is spent on providing
3:25:10 > 3:25:15temporary accommodation. Most of that accommodation is not fit for
3:25:15 > 3:25:19purpose and indeed is certainly not fit for the accommodation needs of
3:25:19 > 3:25:24the individuals who are placed there. If we can reduce that bill
3:25:24 > 3:25:27dramatically, and I think one of the points is how do we go about that,
3:25:27 > 3:25:33is quite clear. Under the Homelessness Reduction Act, anyone
3:25:33 > 3:25:38who is approaching the crisis of homelessness will be able to
3:25:38 > 3:25:41approach their local authority two months before they faced that
3:25:41 > 3:25:44crisis. The aim is quite clear, the aim is that no one should become
3:25:44 > 3:25:48homeless at all, that the local authority should take the
3:25:48 > 3:25:54appropriate action prior to someone becoming homeless. If I could just
3:25:54 > 3:25:58conclude with this point, I will gladly give way to the honourable
3:25:58 > 3:26:01gentleman. If local authorities carry out their duties properly,
3:26:01 > 3:26:06that will mean we will not have that crisis of temporary accommodation
3:26:06 > 3:26:10which is incredibly expensive. This is a cost-effective way of actually
3:26:10 > 3:26:22reducing down the challenge. I give way.I welcome that act, and I just
3:26:22 > 3:26:27want to ask, is there any extra money available for the councils to
3:26:27 > 3:26:30deal with the extra demand they are going to get as a result of this
3:26:30 > 3:26:36act?I thank the honourable member and I'm pleased to say that yes, the
3:26:36 > 3:26:40Government have given extra money, £81 million over a two-year period
3:26:40 > 3:26:45for the implementation of the act. It may be that that is not
3:26:45 > 3:26:49sufficient and you can bet your bottom dollar that the Communities
3:26:49 > 3:26:52and Local Government Secretary, which is going to look at the
3:26:52 > 3:26:56fermentation of the act, will be on the minister's case to make sure
3:26:56 > 3:27:02that if extra funding is required, it will be divided, because quite
3:27:02 > 3:27:05clear that is something, but if authorities do their jobs properly,
3:27:05 > 3:27:08they will sue savings in the temporary accommodation budget which
3:27:08 > 3:27:14should balance up on being provided. One of the issues that is important
3:27:14 > 3:27:19here is that the most often cause of homelessness is the end of a short
3:27:19 > 3:27:30hold tenancy. We have a six-month period normally for a short short
3:27:30 > 3:27:38hold tenancy is and after that point, families have to move. --
3:27:38 > 3:27:43assured short hold tenancy is. We need more security tenancy for
3:27:43 > 3:27:46families but also assurances or landlords that they will get paid
3:27:46 > 3:27:49their rent and the tenants will behave themselves according to the
3:27:49 > 3:27:56contract they have signed. From that perspective, I would ask the
3:27:56 > 3:28:00Minister to go to somewhere we are going in terms of lengthening
3:28:00 > 3:28:03tenancies, because that would reduce homelessness quite radically in this
3:28:03 > 3:28:08country at a stroke. If we could do that, it would be something... Will
3:28:08 > 3:28:14give way on that point.I am very grateful to him for giving way. Just
3:28:14 > 3:28:18in terms of longer tenancies, does he agree that not all tenants want
3:28:18 > 3:28:22to sign no longer tenancy, because it ties them in into something they
3:28:22 > 3:28:26might not want to be tied into the two longer and what we need to have
3:28:26 > 3:28:30this asymmetric tenancies, so the landlord signs of prolonged period,
3:28:30 > 3:28:34say three years, but the tenant can break earlier to encourage them to
3:28:34 > 3:28:41sign that longer tenancy agreement? Clearly, any tenancy agreement that
3:28:41 > 3:28:44would be signed would have break clauses in by mutual convenience and
3:28:44 > 3:28:50I think that would be something that would be appropriate. Can I just
3:28:50 > 3:28:52conclude on this particular issue around that and then I will gladly
3:28:52 > 3:28:57give way to the honourable lady, the reality is we have got a position
3:28:57 > 3:29:03whereby large numbers of young people, children, are in temporary
3:29:03 > 3:29:07accommodation and for far too long and I would ask the Minister to
3:29:07 > 3:29:11updaters, when he sums up, on the position the Government is taking to
3:29:11 > 3:29:16make sure that children are put into permanent accommodation with their
3:29:16 > 3:29:21families in an appropriate way. I give way to the honourable lady.
3:29:21 > 3:29:25Thank you to the honourable member. He made an important point about
3:29:25 > 3:29:31landlords being assured that they will be paid the rent, but was he
3:29:31 > 3:29:35not in the debate last week and the debates last week in the week before
3:29:35 > 3:29:38on Universal Credit, where we have increasing evidence that the
3:29:38 > 3:29:44Universal Credit system, including the building delays of six weeks, is
3:29:44 > 3:29:47actually making it more and more difficult for landlords to the paid
3:29:47 > 3:29:54the rent that they are owed?I thank the honourable lady for that
3:29:54 > 3:29:58intervention and the reality is that under Universal Credit, the tenant
3:29:58 > 3:30:02can choose to have the rent paid direct to the landlord. I would
3:30:02 > 3:30:07recommend certainly that families in that condition should actually take
3:30:07 > 3:30:11of that particular issue. I am also of the view that I think we should
3:30:11 > 3:30:15make sure that the delay of paying Universal Credit should not be six
3:30:15 > 3:30:20weeks but for weeks and that is my personal view that I have advanced
3:30:20 > 3:30:23to ministers about this. The other point I just want to make about
3:30:23 > 3:30:28solutions to the problem going forward, I have mentioned in this
3:30:28 > 3:30:36House already, that of introducing a rent deposit guarantee project and
3:30:36 > 3:30:41they help to rent project. Now, the reality of this is that many
3:30:41 > 3:30:45households face a crisis of not being able to raise the deposit to
3:30:45 > 3:30:49be able to rent a property and become homeless as a result. The
3:30:49 > 3:30:56estimate is that by investing £31 million a year, we could actually
3:30:56 > 3:31:05help 32,000 families in England alone to raise the deposit and
3:31:05 > 3:31:11secure the property of friends that they could afford. That would
3:31:11 > 3:31:15actually save potentially the accommodation budget one billion
3:31:15 > 3:31:20over a three-year period. To me, this is a very sensible route that
3:31:20 > 3:31:24we should follow and I would ask the Minister when he sums up what
3:31:24 > 3:31:29lobbying he is doing of his friends in the Treasury to look at this
3:31:29 > 3:31:34particular aspect, because quite clearly, this is something where we
3:31:34 > 3:31:39save money, we will save people's lives and we will save a lot of
3:31:39 > 3:31:45angstrom and anger and problems that people have. I would also just
3:31:45 > 3:31:49mentioned two of the things before I sit down, Madam Deputy Speaker, and
3:31:49 > 3:31:53that is the rise in rough sleeping that is taking place. I applaud the
3:31:53 > 3:31:59Government for setting out the need to halve the number of rough
3:31:59 > 3:32:01sleepers in this country and eliminate rough sleeping completely,
3:32:01 > 3:32:07but the reality is that rough sleeping is on the rise and we have
3:32:07 > 3:32:13got to take urgent action about it. So I would ask the Minister to
3:32:13 > 3:32:17updaters. I have given away several times and I know many colleagues
3:32:17 > 3:32:25wanted to speak in the debate, so... Can my honourable friend update the
3:32:25 > 3:32:32house on the position of rough sleepers, in particular the
3:32:32 > 3:32:35designation of rough sleepers because in London alone, the
3:32:35 > 3:32:39position is that only about half of the rough sleepers are UK citizens
3:32:39 > 3:32:42and a large number of other rough sleepers in London and beyond are
3:32:42 > 3:32:47from outside the United Kingdom. This is a really is serious problem
3:32:47 > 3:32:52that if people are coming to this country, if they have been
3:32:52 > 3:32:55trafficked or whatever, we need to get to the bottom of why people are
3:32:55 > 3:33:01sleeping rough on our streets today. And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker,
3:33:01 > 3:33:05in terms of I will ask for the Minister, in terms of the
3:33:05 > 3:33:08bed-and-breakfast accommodation, this is the most expensive form of
3:33:08 > 3:33:12temporary accommodation that there is and there has, in my judgment,
3:33:12 > 3:33:15been a rise in the use of bed-and-breakfast accommodation.
3:33:15 > 3:33:22Obviously, the situation around Grenfell Tower, we need to exclude
3:33:22 > 3:33:26that, because that is a very different position, but in terms of
3:33:26 > 3:33:34bed-and-breakfast accommodation use, this is a really expensive means of
3:33:34 > 3:33:37accommodating families and indeed not a very satisfactory means of
3:33:37 > 3:33:44doing so. Finally, in terms of the solutions I think our key, it is
3:33:44 > 3:33:51more than 40 years since we built 250,000 properties in this country.
3:33:51 > 3:33:54This is the fault of governments of all persuasions and we clearly need
3:33:54 > 3:33:59to get to a position whereby we are building 300,000 properties just to
3:33:59 > 3:34:05deal with the need that there is right now. So can the Minister
3:34:05 > 3:34:11updaters on the position of how we are doing in terms of improving the
3:34:11 > 3:34:16level of house-building in this country, so we can actually address
3:34:16 > 3:34:18the fundamental issue, which is providing enough homes for the
3:34:18 > 3:34:25people that want to live in them. The house will be aware that this is
3:34:25 > 3:34:29a short debate and a great many people wish to speak, so I have do
3:34:29 > 3:34:35impose a time in eight of seven minutes. -- a time limit of seven
3:34:35 > 3:34:38minutes.I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this
3:34:38 > 3:34:44important debate, which I have supported my colleague in in calling
3:34:44 > 3:34:49the debate and for the fantastic opener that she gave to this debate.
3:34:49 > 3:34:53I hope that the Government are listening to the debate, because of
3:34:53 > 3:35:00what we are seeing, all of us, I think, across the house in our
3:35:00 > 3:35:05constituencies amounts, frankly to a very, very serious crisis indeed. It
3:35:05 > 3:35:11is no longer accurate to talk of temporary accommodation. In the last
3:35:11 > 3:35:16three months, I have represented to families in my constituency who have
3:35:16 > 3:35:21been living in so-called temporary accommodation for over ten years.
3:35:21 > 3:35:25Temporary accommodation is becoming permanent accommodation and if we
3:35:25 > 3:35:30look at the broader context of this debate, then this is happening
3:35:30 > 3:35:36because of a huge shortage of social housing across our country. One
3:35:36 > 3:35:41family has been living in temporary accommodation for the past 14 years,
3:35:41 > 3:35:44that I can think of in the constituency of Tottenham and
3:35:44 > 3:35:50another for 17 years. The family has lived to see their children grow up
3:35:50 > 3:35:54in temporary accommodation. It is the only home their children have
3:35:54 > 3:36:02ever known from the first day at primary school and the first day at
3:36:02 > 3:36:06secondary school. And next year, they will celebrate their eldest
3:36:06 > 3:36:10child's 18th birthday in this so-called temporary accommodation.
3:36:10 > 3:36:15Another of my constituents has been placed in temporary accommodation
3:36:15 > 3:36:21with her son, who suffers from cerebral palsy and the room is too
3:36:21 > 3:36:25small to accommodate the equipment for his needs. Another two cases
3:36:25 > 3:36:30came into my postbag this month of two households living in temporary
3:36:30 > 3:36:39accommodation since 2010. There are 3140 households living in temporary
3:36:39 > 3:36:42accommodation in my borough of Haringey. And let us be clear about
3:36:42 > 3:36:47the conditions in which people are being housed. If the Minister has
3:36:47 > 3:36:51not visited an emergency accommodation hostel, I would be
3:36:51 > 3:36:56happy to facilitate a visit. In the last couple of months, I have asked
3:36:56 > 3:36:59the minister's Department about the state of temporary accommodation but
3:36:59 > 3:37:03they seem unable to answer, so maybe he can tell the house today what he
3:37:03 > 3:37:08has failed to tell me in the last month. How much of our temporary
3:37:08 > 3:37:14accommodation stock is unfit for human inhabitation or in disrepair
3:37:14 > 3:37:18and requiring refurbishment? How many children are living in such
3:37:18 > 3:37:23inappropriate accommodation? What is the average length of time that a
3:37:23 > 3:37:28household spends in temporary accommodation? How many households
3:37:28 > 3:37:34have spent more than a year in temporary accommodation or more than
3:37:34 > 3:37:38two years, or more than three years? How many households in temporary
3:37:38 > 3:37:45accommodation are being moved into a permanent social home? Because in my
3:37:45 > 3:37:49borough of Haringey, the wait for social housing is around ten years,
3:37:49 > 3:37:56even for those families in the most dire need of a home. What impact
3:37:56 > 3:38:01will the freeze in the local housing allowance have as night follows day,
3:38:01 > 3:38:07households currently rented in the private sector will become homeless
3:38:07 > 3:38:13as they fall into rent arrears. The number of homeless families the
3:38:13 > 3:38:16council will need to house in temporary accommodation will
3:38:16 > 3:38:22increase. This will cause a surge in homelessness yet the Minister for
3:38:22 > 3:38:26Housing told me in an answer to a written question last month that the
3:38:26 > 3:38:30Government had not even carried out and impact assessment. But this is
3:38:30 > 3:38:34not about the numbers, as awful as they are, this is about the reality
3:38:34 > 3:38:38of life for hundreds and thousands of people in this country, one of
3:38:38 > 3:38:42the wealthiest in the world. The hostels in which these people are
3:38:42 > 3:38:47being placed on not acceptable places for vulnerable women escaping
3:38:47 > 3:38:50abusive relationships awful parents bringing up their children. Clearly,
3:38:50 > 3:38:55there are real problems in the system when vulnerable people are
3:38:55 > 3:38:58being left in temporary accommodation for many, many years.
3:38:58 > 3:39:03What steps will the Minister be taking to address this to improve
3:39:03 > 3:39:07the system of assessment for vulnerability and the needs of
3:39:07 > 3:39:12families placed in temporary accommodation? Over the years, I
3:39:12 > 3:39:16have heard horror stories of needles and stairwells, young children
3:39:16 > 3:39:19sharing bathrooms with strangers and vulnerable women being abused and
3:39:19 > 3:39:26exploited and in the end, the story comes back to a chronic problem of a
3:39:26 > 3:39:31decimation in our social housing. Last year, local authorities
3:39:31 > 3:39:36stretched to breaking point after years of austerity and budget cuts,
3:39:36 > 3:39:42spent 845 million on temporary accommodation. The Royal Borough of
3:39:42 > 3:39:46Kensington and Chelsea and the borough that has been at the centre
3:39:46 > 3:39:54of the Grenfell storm built just ten new council funded homes since 1990.
3:39:54 > 3:40:01In 2016, only 1,000... 1102 social homes were built with Government
3:40:01 > 3:40:08money in England. So we've got a serious, serious crisis. The
3:40:08 > 3:40:12chartered Institute of Housing estimates that by 2020, nearly
3:40:12 > 3:40:19250,000 social homes will have been lost in just a year. -- ages.
3:40:19 > 3:40:25I say to the Minister we have got to group the issue of houses sold off
3:40:25 > 3:40:30over right to buy. It is criminal for the state to give people a
3:40:30 > 3:40:35subsidy to take even more house is off the market and see these sorts
3:40:35 > 3:40:39of people we are talking about today an even more dire circumstances as a
3:40:39 > 3:40:49result. I will give way.
3:40:49 > 3:40:53At the moment Manchester City council is having to buy back former
3:40:53 > 3:41:00rights to buy council houses that have been sold off to cope with the
3:41:00 > 3:41:03demands of homeless families presenting at Manchester Town Hall.
3:41:03 > 3:41:07Does he agree it is a disgrace councils are put in the position to
3:41:07 > 3:41:12have to do that? They are absolutely put in that
3:41:12 > 3:41:16position and it is appalling and there are many councillors up and
3:41:16 > 3:41:21down the country having to make the hardest decisions that all of us as
3:41:21 > 3:41:25Members of Parliament are quite pleased we do not have to meet on
3:41:25 > 3:41:31behalf of people. We now have the ridiculous situation where we are
3:41:31 > 3:41:41spending almost £10 billion a year of taxpayer's money on housing
3:41:41 > 3:41:43benefits straight to private landlords. Slashing social housing
3:41:43 > 3:41:47funding is a false economy. Instead of blaming the pockets of private
3:41:47 > 3:41:54landlords it should be used to build new social homes.
3:41:54 > 3:42:02Last night I work out you could purchase 88,000 prefabs for the cost
3:42:02 > 3:42:08of the money in one year we give to the private rented sector in housing
3:42:08 > 3:42:11benefit. We have got to find new ways to
3:42:11 > 3:42:16build houses and we drew breath of giving someone a home for what may
3:42:16 > 3:42:23be 40 or 50 years -- we would be better off getting some money home.
3:42:23 > 3:42:27The state grant available for landlords to build social homes was
3:42:27 > 3:42:33slashed to zero. In its place we got a new category of homes, homes for
3:42:33 > 3:42:37affordable rents and affordable homes for first-time buyers. This
3:42:37 > 3:42:41crisis will not be solved by building affordable homes that cost
3:42:41 > 3:42:49400,000 bones in London. It is time to banish the world affordable when
3:42:49 > 3:42:56it comes to housing policy, it means nothing ordinary people. The
3:42:56 > 3:43:00Government are not building social homes but they are also spending 80%
3:43:00 > 3:43:04of the total housing budget on subsidising private homes through
3:43:04 > 3:43:10help to buy and discounted starter homes, so they are not even really
3:43:10 > 3:43:15serious about their own affordable homes programme. The situation we
3:43:15 > 3:43:18are seeing in temporary accommodation is symptomatic of the
3:43:18 > 3:43:25intrinsically linked shortage of homes and housing crisis and we only
3:43:25 > 3:43:32will get to grips with this crisis through a mass social housing
3:43:32 > 3:43:38building programme. The Government are welcome -- beginning to realise
3:43:38 > 3:43:43this. The Prime Minister said last month this crisis will not be solved
3:43:43 > 3:43:49by further overheating of the housing market by offering help to
3:43:49 > 3:43:53buy loans to first-time buyers who have the help of the bank of mum and
3:43:53 > 3:44:00dad anyway. It will not be solved by 5000 homes each year, a drop in the
3:44:00 > 3:44:04ocean. Only half of the households waiting to be house in the London
3:44:04 > 3:44:12Borough of Haringey and a 1.2 million are waiting across the
3:44:12 > 3:44:17country. I hope the Government are listening and on behalf of those
3:44:17 > 3:44:23families in Haringey, I hope they will finally act.
3:44:23 > 3:44:26It is a pleasure to speak after the honourable gentleman for Tottenham.
3:44:26 > 3:44:33Congratulate the member for bringing forward this very important debate.
3:44:33 > 3:44:37There is no question we have a problem and nobody can be
3:44:37 > 3:44:43comfortable with the situation with a 70,000 people in temporary
3:44:43 > 3:44:51accommodation, 70% increase -- 7% increase on the past year.
3:44:51 > 3:44:59And the numbers of people living in bed and breakfast accommodation,
3:44:59 > 3:45:056600 people. Slight decline on the previous year, four percent decline.
3:45:05 > 3:45:11In terms of the overall context of temporary accommodation, to take
3:45:11 > 3:45:18some of the party political heat of this, that figure peaked in 2003 at
3:45:18 > 3:45:22100,000 so we need to look at this in the overall context but that is
3:45:22 > 3:45:28making no excuse for the fact we do need to move people out of temporary
3:45:28 > 3:45:33accommodation and into decent housing. The is taking action on
3:45:33 > 3:45:42this particular issue, allocating £550 million by 2020 in terms of
3:45:42 > 3:45:45homelessness reduction and the first thing to try and do it reduce the
3:45:45 > 3:45:51number of people becoming homeless. The ambitious objectives of the
3:45:51 > 3:45:56Government, to halve homelessness by 2022 and completely abolish
3:45:56 > 3:46:03homelessness by 2027 are very profound and ambitious targets and
3:46:03 > 3:46:09must be welcomed. I also welcome the actions of my honourable friend for
3:46:09 > 3:46:14Harrow East in his work on Homelessness Reduction Act. I sat on
3:46:14 > 3:46:18that committee to help bring that legislation forward and it is a very
3:46:18 > 3:46:21important piece of legislation. We saw many anecdotes and lots of
3:46:21 > 3:46:27evidence about people that just were not well served when they presented
3:46:27 > 3:46:31themselves to be local authorities in desperate need of advice to
3:46:31 > 3:46:35prevent them becoming homeless or repost them and this will have a
3:46:35 > 3:46:40profound effect in trying to help those people. New duties for local
3:46:40 > 3:46:46authorities and eight new code of conduct. Can I also welcome the
3:46:46 > 3:46:50Government's actions supported housing which will have an effect
3:46:50 > 3:46:55here. There was concern about the new policy is unsupported housing
3:46:55 > 3:47:01and the Government has listened to the joint committee on this issue
3:47:01 > 3:47:05and we look at this issue to try to form a policy that would work better
3:47:05 > 3:47:11nationally and locally and the Government has listened and it has
3:47:11 > 3:47:14put in place pretty much what we recommended in terms of looking at
3:47:14 > 3:47:20the different types of supported housing in terms of sheltered
3:47:20 > 3:47:24accommodation, sheltered red category, but also making sure we
3:47:24 > 3:47:31have money allocated for short-term supported housing. In terms of wider
3:47:31 > 3:47:35solutions, I agree with the number of contributors already, the
3:47:35 > 3:47:39fundamental problem we have to solve is the number of houses we are
3:47:39 > 3:47:44building in the country. That is a fundamental problem and that drives
3:47:44 > 3:47:48all the affordability issues that drive many people into homelessness.
3:47:48 > 3:47:59We need to build more homes and clearly we are, in terms of as we
3:47:59 > 3:48:04saw through the housing market crash and it was a very difficult to build
3:48:04 > 3:48:08homes in 2008 and so numbers of new homes have been delivered at twice
3:48:08 > 3:48:17the rate of 2008, which is good. We also need to build, that is a fact,
3:48:17 > 3:48:20more affordable homes and more social homes. I agree with the
3:48:20 > 3:48:28honourable gentleman, 80% of market value in many cases is simply not
3:48:28 > 3:48:33enough. Absolutely affordable homes, more of those that for many people
3:48:33 > 3:48:39and I will address that point in terms of how she says from a
3:48:39 > 3:48:43sedentary position but the extra £2 billion the Government announced, 9
3:48:43 > 3:48:50billion in total. The viability assessment is
3:48:50 > 3:48:54something we have got to get to grips with because this is a way for
3:48:54 > 3:48:57developers to avoid their responsibilities of delivering
3:48:57 > 3:49:06affordable homes. Absolutely, 79% of affordable homes that should have
3:49:06 > 3:49:12been delivered through section one contributions have been avoided by
3:49:12 > 3:49:17the use of viability assessments. They were right to bring in
3:49:17 > 3:49:20viability assessments in 2012 when sites were not viable but that time
3:49:20 > 3:49:26has passed and we should look at a new policy into and contributions
3:49:26 > 3:49:29from developers and landowners. This money is supposed to come from
3:49:29 > 3:49:33landowners to pay for affordable homes and social homes to rent. I
3:49:33 > 3:49:40would favour a simple system of tariffs, or bedroom or square foot,
3:49:40 > 3:49:45rather than a complex system of section 106, in terms of a local
3:49:45 > 3:49:48authority presenting a policy of a certain percentage of affordable.
3:49:48 > 3:49:55That would work much better. Happy to give way.I faxed the honourable
3:49:55 > 3:50:00member and he is making an interesting point. Does he not
3:50:00 > 3:50:07realise if the private sector was expected alone that to meet the need
3:50:07 > 3:50:15for neutral affordable social rented homes, and were required by law
3:50:15 > 3:50:20would comply with the tariff to the extent he suggests is not likely the
3:50:20 > 3:50:25private sector would just walk away from delivering homes at all?I do
3:50:25 > 3:50:32not accept that. It is already in requirement for them to deliver in
3:50:32 > 3:50:36section 106 contributions. It has to be fair to the landowner and the
3:50:36 > 3:50:39community and to much of the planning game goes to the landowner
3:50:39 > 3:50:44and not enough to the community and the viability assessment allows the
3:50:44 > 3:50:48developer is to have a race to the top in terms of land prices. I would
3:50:48 > 3:50:52be happy to have a longer the bit about it but I built the system at
3:50:52 > 3:50:57the moment create a loophole for developers. It is not just the
3:50:57 > 3:51:00responsibility of the private sector and the Government needs to
3:51:00 > 3:51:06contribute, as it is, and I would say to contribute more.
3:51:06 > 3:51:15Can I draw the house to the register of members interests. It is
3:51:15 > 3:51:18something I have some business interests in the housing market. One
3:51:18 > 3:51:24other area to look at in terms of delivering more social rented homes
3:51:24 > 3:51:29is allowing investors to put property, private rented sector
3:51:29 > 3:51:35property in a self invested pension. As long... Would you cannot do at
3:51:35 > 3:51:39the moment, you can buy commercial property but not to residential
3:51:39 > 3:51:45property. I spoke to the Chancellor and the Communities Secretary about
3:51:45 > 3:51:50why we can't allow private sector investors to put residential
3:51:50 > 3:51:54property in a pension as long as they are willing to rent it out at
3:51:54 > 3:51:58the social rent. Less than 50% of Lent. Another way of delivering
3:51:58 > 3:52:03social rented homes. Local authorities and housing associations
3:52:03 > 3:52:09are part of the solution. We should allocate more money or allow local
3:52:09 > 3:52:14authorities to borrow more money to develop more affordable homes or
3:52:14 > 3:52:17homes for social rent, and I also would like to pick up on issues on
3:52:17 > 3:52:22the private rented sector. I believe most landlords are very responsible
3:52:22 > 3:52:25in terms of delivering decent quality accommodation into the
3:52:25 > 3:52:33private rented sector and will remain a key part of delivering
3:52:33 > 3:52:38decent accommodation for temporary and permanent, in the future. I do
3:52:38 > 3:52:45think we should look at the proxy rental standard -- property rental
3:52:45 > 3:52:49standard and the new bills coming through in terms of the graph
3:52:49 > 3:52:53Territories Bill or other legislation might give us the
3:52:53 > 3:52:56opportunity to put in a property rental standard to ensure all
3:52:56 > 3:53:01private rented sector is obvious in quality and we have decent
3:53:01 > 3:53:12enforcement. Longer penances, I agree we should look at that --
3:53:12 > 3:53:16tenancies. They should be voluntary for landlords but there should be
3:53:16 > 3:53:21incentives. I wonder about incentives to allow dispensation
3:53:21 > 3:53:25around section 24 mortgage interest provisions that were brought in and
3:53:25 > 3:53:31have been quite badly received by many landlords. If they are willing
3:53:31 > 3:53:37to offer longer tenancies perhaps there should be some dispensation
3:53:37 > 3:53:44around those. Overall, congratulate the honourable lady yet again. I am
3:53:44 > 3:53:49very keen, as she is, to see much higher quality of accommodation in
3:53:49 > 3:53:56the private rented sector and in temporary accommodation.
3:53:56 > 3:54:02Can I congratulate the honourable gentleman for his speech and also on
3:54:02 > 3:54:09reminding me also to bring members' attention to my interest in the
3:54:09 > 3:54:15register of members' interest. I would like to thank my friend Matt
3:54:15 > 3:54:23for securing this important debate and for his speech. The situation in
3:54:23 > 3:54:29my local area is dire. More than 5600 people approached the council
3:54:29 > 3:54:38worried about homelessness. In total, 4725 households are in some
3:54:38 > 3:54:43kind of temporary accommodation and more than half of these are
3:54:43 > 3:54:48currently in the least stable form of nightly paid accommodation. I
3:54:48 > 3:54:52hope members across the house agree these statistics drive home the
3:54:52 > 3:54:58scale of the problem we are discussing today. Temporary housing
3:54:58 > 3:55:02conditions can master the damage the well-being and opportunities for
3:55:02 > 3:55:07families and to illustrate I would like to talk about one case out of
3:55:07 > 3:55:13hundreds I have received recently. In August I heard from Kamala, a
3:55:13 > 3:55:18grandmother writing our behalf of her grandchildren and their mother,
3:55:18 > 3:55:25Lisa. Three granddaughters, 14, 11 and five and Lisa has had to live in
3:55:25 > 3:55:30temporary accommodation for 15 years.
3:55:30 > 3:55:35The children have known nothing else. The conditions in Lisa's flat
3:55:35 > 3:55:40ar awful and it is having a real impact upon the family's health. The
3:55:40 > 3:55:44walls are either black with mould or covered with mildew because of the
3:55:44 > 3:55:48damp. One of the daughters has breathing problems and the whole
3:55:48 > 3:55:53family is frequently sick with infections. Lisa and her daughters
3:55:53 > 3:55:58have, as we although in London, they have had to move a number of times
3:55:58 > 3:56:02already and on one occasion, she was moved out of new and they have
3:56:02 > 3:56:08recently been told they might be moved out of London entirely.
3:56:08 > 3:56:12Camilla is really worried about Lisa's mental health because of the
3:56:12 > 3:56:17living conditions of the family and the stresses it causes and Camillo
3:56:17 > 3:56:21believes that having to move out of London and away from the support
3:56:21 > 3:56:25network of the family could, and I quote, "Push her over the edge
3:56:25 > 3:56:27entirely"
3:56:27 > 3:56:29quote, "Push her over the edge entirely", leaving the family in
3:56:29 > 3:56:36very difficult circumstances. The problem is, as we have heard, of
3:56:36 > 3:56:40homelessness, debt, unstable homes and constant moves impact on
3:56:40 > 3:56:43children and families, preventing children and families from putting
3:56:43 > 3:56:52down basic roots, making friends, getting on Doctor's registers or
3:56:52 > 3:56:56even joining a library or a youth club. We already storing of social
3:56:56 > 3:57:01problems for the future. I often say I was really privileged to grow up
3:57:01 > 3:57:06in a council flat in east London. I was moved their aged two and a half
3:57:06 > 3:57:12during the slum clearances around the docks. That flat provided me
3:57:12 > 3:57:18with the security to learn and do as well as I could. My little sister,
3:57:18 > 3:57:21well, younger sister, is a well respected solicitor and I am
3:57:21 > 3:57:27standing in this House. She is actually both, it is true. We could
3:57:27 > 3:57:32not have done it without the security of an affordable, secure
3:57:32 > 3:57:41tenancy, the security of a council property behind us. The housing,
3:57:41 > 3:57:46social housing shortage, requires urgent, extensive long-term policy
3:57:46 > 3:57:50responses, but one decision is really crucial and would help to
3:57:50 > 3:57:55continue to improve the housing conditions in my constituency and
3:57:55 > 3:57:59across the board. The Secretary of State could today approved the
3:57:59 > 3:58:04renewal of Newham's widely respected scheme for private sector licensing.
3:58:04 > 3:58:10The scheme has run, I believe, utterly successfully since 2013, but
3:58:10 > 3:58:18it now requires approval from the DCLG and this decision is overdue.
3:58:18 > 3:58:22Newham's current scheme expires on the 31st of December, so there is a
3:58:22 > 3:58:25real risk that my constituents will be left without these protections if
3:58:25 > 3:58:31the decision is not made quickly.My honourable friend is making an
3:58:31 > 3:58:35excellent speech. Does she agree with me that for those of us who
3:58:35 > 3:58:40grew up a working class and spent time in social council homes that
3:58:40 > 3:58:46what we had was security, and what we see so often in our
3:58:46 > 3:58:51constituencies is deep insecurity and the depression, mental health
3:58:51 > 3:58:56and health problems that go with that insecurity? That is the
3:58:56 > 3:59:01difference between yesterday's working classes and today's.My
3:59:01 > 3:59:05honourable friend is absolutely right. Things went easy at home, you
3:59:05 > 3:59:10know, but my mum never ever will let us feel we went without. Both of
3:59:10 > 3:59:12them worked in factories in silver town and although there wasn't a
3:59:12 > 3:59:16huge amount of money, there was always enough to pay the rent
3:59:16 > 3:59:27because the rent was a social rent. Now my constituents have two jobs,
3:59:27 > 3:59:29working in very hard circumstances and still can't afford the private
3:59:29 > 3:59:32sector rents because that is all that is available to them in my home
3:59:32 > 3:59:36borough. But let me get back to the issue of the scheme in Newham to
3:59:36 > 3:59:40protect my residence. The value of the scheme to enforcement of Housing
3:59:40 > 3:59:45standards is clear. It gives Newham the information and the powers that
3:59:45 > 3:59:49it needs to monitor and enforce standards within the private rented
3:59:49 > 3:59:54sector. All private landlords have to register and must agree to terms
3:59:54 > 3:59:57with the council and they are held to account for failures to live up
3:59:57 > 4:00:02to the agreement. Just last week, enforcement officers, working as
4:00:02 > 4:00:08part of the scheme, found a man living in ale one metre by two
4:00:08 > 4:00:16metres space under the stairs of a property. There were 11 other people
4:00:16 > 4:00:20living throughout the rest of that house and dangerous electrical and
4:00:20 > 4:00:25fire hazards were found as well. Through this scheme, Newham council
4:00:25 > 4:00:29has helped to bring more than 1200 prosecutions against criminal
4:00:29 > 4:00:36landlords. That is 60% of the London total, more than every other London
4:00:36 > 4:00:42borough combined. If standards are continually driven up through the
4:00:42 > 4:00:49private sector renting locally and enforcement strengthened so there
4:00:49 > 4:00:54are fewer rogue landlords and less scope for exploitative practice like
4:00:54 > 4:00:59the horrendous overcrowding I have explained here today, conditions
4:00:59 > 4:01:03will improve in temporary housing and that can only be for the good of
4:01:03 > 4:01:07the children and our society at large. I hope that we will see some
4:01:07 > 4:01:11serious commitment today from the Minister to deal with the root
4:01:11 > 4:01:16causes of the ills of long-term, expensive poor quality temporary
4:01:16 > 4:01:22accommodation but given that he has sat there generally list --
4:01:22 > 4:01:26generously listing and nodding as I have chatted, I would also like to
4:01:26 > 4:01:29hear positive noises from the Minister about this game and he will
4:01:29 > 4:01:33soon be in a position to announce approval for the scheme extension
4:01:33 > 4:01:39has been granted.I also congratulate the honourable lady. It
4:01:39 > 4:01:43is a great pleasure to follow her and all the other members in this
4:01:43 > 4:01:49House to highlight the importance of this absolutely critical issue. So I
4:01:49 > 4:01:53understand the importance of temporary accommodation, it does
4:01:53 > 4:01:57play a vital role, because I do believe that no child should be left
4:01:57 > 4:02:03without a roof over their head at a time of their life when they are
4:02:03 > 4:02:09facing a crisis situation and I do know that this is not a new problem.
4:02:09 > 4:02:14We have seen numbers of children in temporary accommodation at their
4:02:14 > 4:02:19peak in 2006 and they have come down somewhat since then, but I
4:02:19 > 4:02:22absolutely accept that the Government should not be complacent
4:02:22 > 4:02:29and it must do more to continue to bring down this problem. I have
4:02:29 > 4:02:32sought assurances from Redditch, my constituency, Redditch Borough
4:02:32 > 4:02:37Council. They do have 21 units their designated as temporary
4:02:37 > 4:02:43accommodation, but I am very keen to seek assurances that we have only a
4:02:43 > 4:02:47minimal, as small as possible, number of families being sent
4:02:47 > 4:02:50outside the borough and I do commit to doing more to work with the
4:02:50 > 4:02:55council to ensure those numbers are not excessive, but I think this
4:02:55 > 4:03:02issue has a number of root causes, admirably tackled by other members.
4:03:02 > 4:03:08The first is, of course, ending homelessness. The Government has
4:03:08 > 4:03:11shown its commitment to preventing and ending homelessness,
4:03:11 > 4:03:15particularly in the area of the Homelessness Reduction Act,
4:03:15 > 4:03:19introduced and championed by my friend the honourable member for
4:03:19 > 4:03:23Harrow East and I thank him for the detailed description of the act,
4:03:23 > 4:03:30where the Government is committed to... He has done a fantastic job
4:03:30 > 4:03:34championing this issue and I welcome the work and all of our constituents
4:03:34 > 4:03:40will benefit. The Government is reduced to half of sleeping and
4:03:40 > 4:03:46eliminated altogether by 2027. This is challenging but the Government
4:03:46 > 4:03:51has committed to making real progress by spending over 550
4:03:51 > 4:04:02million between now and 2022 jackal this -- to tackle the serious in --
4:04:02 > 4:04:11issue. They can intervene earlier where the family most needs help and
4:04:11 > 4:04:15that is what we all want to see with this. So of course we need to fix
4:04:15 > 4:04:24the housing market, hammy times have we heard this. This is not a new
4:04:24 > 4:04:29issue, 30 or 40 years, all governments have not built in houses
4:04:29 > 4:04:34and we have absolutely had fantastic stories from the honourable lady who
4:04:34 > 4:04:40just preceded me about her experience in social homes and that
4:04:40 > 4:04:47is what we need to get to. So we have heard the commitment to fix the
4:04:47 > 4:04:55housing market, to diversify and we have seen progress, 333,000
4:04:55 > 4:04:57affordable housing, including 240,000 for affordable rent since
4:04:57 > 4:05:062010. And I accept the definition of affordable and that does need to be
4:05:06 > 4:05:14looked at in the London area, many members represent and in my own
4:05:14 > 4:05:17constituency of Redditch, homes are more affordable in general and the
4:05:17 > 4:05:21average age of a first-time buyer in Redditch is 25, so there is a
4:05:21 > 4:05:26massive difference across the country and policy needs to reflect
4:05:26 > 4:05:31that. My final point is that we know another reason for homelessness is
4:05:31 > 4:05:36the ending of an assured short hold tenancy. I have heard there will be
4:05:36 > 4:05:40some announcements in the budget, so I hope the Government will look at
4:05:40 > 4:05:45that in the budget and bring forward plans to ensure that private
4:05:45 > 4:05:50landlords can offer a longer tenancy is where it suits the individual
4:05:50 > 4:05:54situation, as one or friend has highlighted. So more security of
4:05:54 > 4:05:59tenure would very much help families in that situation and help to reduce
4:05:59 > 4:06:05homelessness. There is no simple solution to this issue. Members
4:06:05 > 4:06:09opposite have raised the issue of Universal Credit and that has been
4:06:09 > 4:06:14rolled out in my constituency last week. I visited the housing
4:06:14 > 4:06:18providers who provide the most homes in my patch and also visited the
4:06:18 > 4:06:22John Senden and I have spoken to them and asked them, what are they
4:06:22 > 4:06:25going to do to help them prevent anyone being made homeless as a
4:06:25 > 4:06:29result. They say they welcome Universal Credit because it is
4:06:29 > 4:06:33helping people get back into work and for those families who are in
4:06:33 > 4:06:38work, it is helping them to take on more hours. I heard from people who
4:06:38 > 4:06:42are debt counsellors are made told me the difficulties that families
4:06:42 > 4:06:46had had before when they couldn't take on more hours even if they
4:06:46 > 4:06:51wanted to, so I think this system can work only can support people out
4:06:51 > 4:06:56of poverty. In Redditch, they have a very proactive approach. Giving
4:06:56 > 4:07:00every claimant the advanced by default, and I really hope with this
4:07:00 > 4:07:06proactive approach, we can see families benefit from Universal
4:07:06 > 4:07:11Credit. I will give way.It is considered speech and I am listening
4:07:11 > 4:07:15very carefully but did not have social mammals also say there has
4:07:15 > 4:07:19been a huge increase in rent arrears because of the roll of Universal
4:07:19 > 4:07:28Credit on her patch?Actually, I can assure him that I asked that
4:07:28 > 4:07:32question to them directly and the answer I got was in fact, many of
4:07:32 > 4:07:36those tenants are already in arrears when they, to the Universal Credit
4:07:36 > 4:07:41system so of course it is important that the social landlords need to
4:07:41 > 4:07:45work closely with them to help them through that process to get them
4:07:45 > 4:07:50back earning and reduce those arrears and they have support there,
4:07:50 > 4:07:54neighbourhood workers who will go and work with those tenants and they
4:07:54 > 4:07:59assure me that the risk for those tenants being made homeless is very
4:07:59 > 4:08:03very low, if not negligible but I assure him that I will keep in close
4:08:03 > 4:08:08contact with those social mammals to ensure that doesn't happen. I will
4:08:08 > 4:08:13end by congratulating the honourable lady again and thank you very much
4:08:13 > 4:08:18for raising this issue and I very much of the minister, with copious
4:08:18 > 4:08:22notes he was taking, will be able to reassure those who and we can all
4:08:22 > 4:08:30work together to resolve some of the issues highlighted.I am pleased to
4:08:30 > 4:08:36follow my honourable friend from Redditch. I also would like to
4:08:36 > 4:08:40congratulate my honourable friend and Morden and thank her for
4:08:40 > 4:08:47bringing this very important debate to the house. The use of temporary
4:08:47 > 4:08:49accommodation is currently increasing and will continue to
4:08:49 > 4:08:59increase unless we tackle the root of its cause. Every day, 150
4:08:59 > 4:09:02families in Britain become homeless, according to the housing charity
4:09:02 > 4:09:09Shelter. Overstretched and underfunded councils like Bedford
4:09:09 > 4:09:12Borough are trying to deal with homelessness in the midst of a
4:09:12 > 4:09:19housing crisis. A lack of affordable housing and private sector rents
4:09:19 > 4:09:24continuing to rise above household income, which has been fuelled by
4:09:24 > 4:09:31the freeze to housing benefit in the private rented sector. It is
4:09:31 > 4:09:36becoming very difficult for the councils to procure accommodation
4:09:36 > 4:09:40within our affordable financial framework and we have the ridiculous
4:09:40 > 4:09:43situation where councils are offering cash incentives to private
4:09:43 > 4:09:51landlords to persuade them to rent to people who are on low income, to
4:09:51 > 4:09:57bridge the gap between the lower income on the high Mark the Wrens.
4:09:57 > 4:10:00So this is a serious problem when people are refusing to rent out to
4:10:00 > 4:10:02the people on low income and the Government need to look into that
4:10:02 > 4:10:08very urgently.
4:10:08 > 4:10:17There has been a 229% increase in the temporary accommodation in
4:10:17 > 4:10:37Bedford Borough. In 2016-17 there was... It is 229% increase in
4:10:37 > 4:10:40Bedford Borough and I hope the minister is paying attention to this
4:10:40 > 4:10:47figure. The sharp increase in the number of low income families living
4:10:47 > 4:10:50in temporary accommodation is a disease created under this
4:10:50 > 4:10:57Government's watch. We are discussing the housing needs of the
4:10:57 > 4:11:01most vulnerable people in society, families and vulnerable individuals
4:11:01 > 4:11:07living the roof over their heads in desperation and accepting
4:11:07 > 4:11:11accommodation many miles away from the communities they belong to and
4:11:11 > 4:11:16this displacement and uncertainty and months spent in unfamiliar bed
4:11:16 > 4:11:27and breakfasts only adds to the hardship. According to Shelter 118
4:11:27 > 4:11:30children are living in temporary accommodation in Bedford alone which
4:11:30 > 4:11:34I think is a very pro-situation and we need to look into it very
4:11:34 > 4:11:44urgently. -- very perverse situation. Nearly 1400 families in
4:11:44 > 4:11:57Bedford body alone. The only target the Government is set to reach is on
4:11:57 > 4:12:04child poverty, 5.2 million in the last five years. How can we expect a
4:12:04 > 4:12:11child to suddenly moved schools, perhaps the only stable environment,
4:12:11 > 4:12:17away from friends and family, to an role in a new school in a new town,
4:12:17 > 4:12:21only to have to change again and again in a few months down the line.
4:12:21 > 4:12:29The damage to their life chances, their mental health, the education
4:12:29 > 4:12:35and the ability to form and secure relationships, the long-term
4:12:35 > 4:12:45solution to this must be found now. It cannot be that temporary
4:12:45 > 4:12:48accommodation becomes the permanent solution. The Government need to
4:12:48 > 4:12:54look at this issue very urgently and in Bedford the situation is getting
4:12:54 > 4:13:02worse and worse every minute. I also congratulate Mike honourable
4:13:02 > 4:13:12friend for securing this debate is the and describing the situation, as
4:13:12 > 4:13:18others have done,. Examples not too different from the experience I find
4:13:18 > 4:13:30in my own constituency. In a borough in my constituency there are now 768
4:13:30 > 4:13:34households in temporary accommodation and there are 3500
4:13:34 > 4:13:38households in housing need. This debate has been focusing on
4:13:38 > 4:13:44temporary housing for those accepted as homeless for which the local
4:13:44 > 4:13:47authority may have a duty to our house but that there are other
4:13:47 > 4:13:52people in temporary accommodation and those being housed by social
4:13:52 > 4:13:57services, for whom there is no duty to house but there is a duty of care
4:13:57 > 4:14:02for those children. I mean families who are being helped by social
4:14:02 > 4:14:07services in temporary accommodation to don't even have the level of
4:14:07 > 4:14:13information and confirmation of how long they will be there. As other
4:14:13 > 4:14:18members have rightly said, with adequate, affordable social rented
4:14:18 > 4:14:22housing those 760 families would be able to move fairly swiftly and Sue
4:14:22 > 4:14:32homes locally. Since the Labour Government's programme of social
4:14:32 > 4:14:37rented homes was stopped in 2010 by the Conservative led coalition the
4:14:37 > 4:14:42situation of housing need has reached crisis point. The lack of
4:14:42 > 4:14:47social rented housing, coupled with rising rent in London, declining
4:14:47 > 4:14:53real wages, punitive cuts to income on those on benefit and particularly
4:14:53 > 4:14:57the local housing allowance cuts fuelled this crisis. The Government
4:14:57 > 4:15:02has left local authorities with the job of picking up the pieces and
4:15:02 > 4:15:05trying to find adequate temporary accommodation to place people while
4:15:05 > 4:15:09they are waiting to be assessed and then waiting for a suitable
4:15:09 > 4:15:13permanent accommodation and I want to pay tribute to the front line
4:15:13 > 4:15:20housing staff who are having to deal with the trauma, stress, their own
4:15:20 > 4:15:25jobs are just incredibly stressful. It is not a position they went into
4:15:25 > 4:15:29housing management for but it's what they are having to deal with and it
4:15:29 > 4:15:34is not fair on them and of course not fear on the affected families.
4:15:34 > 4:15:43Local authorities are chasing an ever declining stock of
4:15:43 > 4:15:46accommodation to please homeless families that are fit for habitation
4:15:46 > 4:15:47and the right size.
4:15:52 > 4:15:58Is she aware in my above there are over 3300 and -- 3311 households in
4:15:58 > 4:16:03temporary accommodation in one of the situations we have tried to find
4:16:03 > 4:16:09is set up a house in Gateway organisation to buy stock. It is
4:16:09 > 4:16:12only temporary solution but will she agreed with me the best solution is
4:16:12 > 4:16:18to build more council house in? I would absolutely agree and I
4:16:18 > 4:16:24congratulate local authorities that are trying to find solutions to the
4:16:24 > 4:16:27temporary accommodation prices but they need to have the power of
4:16:27 > 4:16:31security to invest in proper good-quality permanent housing. I
4:16:31 > 4:16:35want to move on to the lack of local temporary accommodation, borrowers
4:16:35 > 4:16:43and west London where there are high rents find they cannot square the
4:16:43 > 4:16:49circle about quality and rent levels. The is increasing and supply
4:16:49 > 4:16:53is drying up, even for private sector accommodation. Families are
4:16:53 > 4:16:59in temporary accommodation -- they are in temporary accommodation not
4:16:59 > 4:17:05for weeks or months but for years and I met a mother who had been in
4:17:05 > 4:17:09temporary accommodation for nine years and many of us move permanent
4:17:09 > 4:17:15home more often than that. Temporary accommodation is too often not
4:17:15 > 4:17:21local. I met a family who are being housed in Birmingham. One family
4:17:21 > 4:17:27moved around 20 miles away but the father is a restaurant worker who
4:17:27 > 4:17:32finishes work after public transport has stopped so he could not get back
4:17:32 > 4:17:37to his family at night. The impact on children of changing schools,
4:17:37 > 4:17:46should they change schools or carry on the two hour journeys each-way or
4:17:46 > 4:17:49make a decision on their new temporary home could be permanent
4:17:49 > 4:17:54for some time and they moved schools. A decision to make but this
4:17:54 > 4:17:59stressful on children and difficult for the educational outcomes. What
4:17:59 > 4:18:06about those with medical needs? Or the children with special
4:18:06 > 4:18:10educational needs? Or other mental health, already severe, just getting
4:18:10 > 4:18:16worse with the stress. Do they shift their children or move their
4:18:16 > 4:18:20clinical consultant, as they are moved by the local authority to
4:18:20 > 4:18:25temporary accommodation a long way away or do they fight with housing
4:18:25 > 4:18:30officers to make a case for why they should have what is already too
4:18:30 > 4:18:37little local available temporary accommodation. On local, if they
4:18:37 > 4:18:44seek help or advice from their MP, who is the MP? How long you have to
4:18:44 > 4:18:48be in temporary accommodation before the MP for your last permanent home
4:18:48 > 4:18:54is no longer your MP? I think this is a matter we will have to take up
4:18:54 > 4:18:59in the house because it is confusing when trying to deal with casework or
4:18:59 > 4:19:03having casework referred to as Mac from somebody from another
4:19:03 > 4:19:09authority. Finally, the quality and suitability of temporary
4:19:09 > 4:19:13accommodation. I have a family expecting their fourth child living
4:19:13 > 4:19:17in one room in a bed and breakfast for months. Families living in homes
4:19:17 > 4:19:25that are down, repairs are inadequate, they are dangerous and
4:19:25 > 4:19:28inaccessible for those with disabilities, unsuitable for
4:19:28 > 4:19:34children with special needs such as autism. Temporary accommodation is
4:19:34 > 4:19:39becoming more unaffordable. Landlord in west London can expect a higher
4:19:39 > 4:19:43return than local housing allowance cap has fallen so the local
4:19:43 > 4:19:46authority is left finding the difference between rents and the
4:19:46 > 4:19:51amount the DWP is prepared to pay and I am not just talking about
4:19:51 > 4:19:56nonworking families, this includes working families. We should not be
4:19:56 > 4:20:00using taxpayer money to fund housing benefit to be a high rents and lined
4:20:00 > 4:20:05pockets of private landlords who provide temporary accommodation.
4:20:05 > 4:20:11Local authorities are forced to take drastic action to reduce the demand
4:20:11 > 4:20:14for temporary accommodation. Including tightening the rules on
4:20:14 > 4:20:21acceptance for the duty to house. If you are served with an eviction
4:20:21 > 4:20:25notice but leave your home before the bill is about you will be
4:20:25 > 4:20:28defined as intentionally homeless and the council will not help with
4:20:28 > 4:20:35finding a place for temporary accommodation and will discharge
4:20:35 > 4:20:40their duty to house. Too many families find they think they are
4:20:40 > 4:20:46doing the right thing by planning ahead and they are not helped.
4:20:46 > 4:20:49Hounslow has been reducing the use of temporary accommodation in the
4:20:49 > 4:20:53private sector by using council housing properties waiting to be the
4:20:53 > 4:20:58parent but the funding should be available to make those houses
4:20:58 > 4:21:02adequate -- that are waiting to be repaired. Temporary accommodation
4:21:02 > 4:21:11should be just that, temporary, a short period. In the days when
4:21:11 > 4:21:17supply of affordable accommodation balanced out, that is what it was.
4:21:17 > 4:21:23It lies in the delivery of truly affordable social rented housing
4:21:23 > 4:21:26instead of blaming the last Labour Government, this Government should
4:21:26 > 4:21:33act now. It is usually a pleasure to follow
4:21:33 > 4:21:45my friend Mike but my speech paints a similarly bleak picture. Until
4:21:45 > 4:21:51next year I am still an elected councillor in my London borough. I
4:21:51 > 4:21:56want to begin by reflecting as I prepared to leave the Council and I
4:21:56 > 4:22:00stayed local authorities find themselves in trying to wrestle with
4:22:00 > 4:22:10the scale of the housing crisis in London. There is a net increase of
4:22:10 > 4:22:1637% in those they are dealing with, and 10% in the last year alone. In
4:22:16 > 4:22:24my Buddha they were looking to house over 2000 families in temporary
4:22:24 > 4:22:27accommodation with over 8000 on the housing register and this Christmas
4:22:27 > 4:22:33that will be an even more bleak picture as my casework begins to
4:22:33 > 4:22:42bulge even more than it has with some pretty horrifying cases. It is
4:22:42 > 4:22:46very hard to describe, except by telling individual stories, what
4:22:46 > 4:22:52this means in human terms for those we have sent you to the present. One
4:22:52 > 4:22:57constituent who used to live in a three-bedroom flat who lost her home
4:22:57 > 4:23:08due to a fire in August 2016 and she and her former children -- four
4:23:08 > 4:23:13children were rehoused in a two-bedroom flat in temporary
4:23:13 > 4:23:17accommodation which is not at all temporary and she is still there.
4:23:17 > 4:23:24She has GP letters about her stress which has been made worse by her
4:23:24 > 4:23:29housing situation and her eldest daughter, just 11 years old, showing
4:23:29 > 4:23:33signs of stress and anxiety which is caused her daughter's school to
4:23:33 > 4:23:36express concern about the impact on her education but the response from
4:23:36 > 4:23:41the Council is they do not have anything bigger. She does not feel
4:23:41 > 4:23:44the council listening and when I challenge housing officers they say,
4:23:44 > 4:23:52what can we do and I do understand constituent rightly feels her
4:23:52 > 4:23:54situation is unreasonable and intolerable and I also understand
4:23:54 > 4:23:58the dilemma the housing officers face that the supply of
4:23:58 > 4:24:03accommodation is simply not there. I was heartbroken when one of my
4:24:03 > 4:24:06constituents came to see me regarding her condition living in
4:24:06 > 4:24:12the hostel in one room of her 15-year-old daughter in a tiny room
4:24:12 > 4:24:16with very basic facilities. A doctor is preparing for her GCSEs but was
4:24:16 > 4:24:25having to do heart -- her daughter was revising but had to do her
4:24:25 > 4:24:28revising under the covers with a torchlight in order not to disturb
4:24:28 > 4:24:33her mother. I'm also having to do basic household chores like washing
4:24:33 > 4:24:41and laundry without basic facilities.
4:24:42 > 4:24:45It is heartbreaking to see families and that's kind of condition. The
4:24:45 > 4:24:50first cases I have seen was a victim of domestic violence who fled her
4:24:50 > 4:24:55home and was therefore deemed as intentionally homeless. We in my
4:24:55 > 4:25:00office had asked the decision to be overturned widgets duly was. She was
4:25:00 > 4:25:06placed in the early Essex pub, an old pub which gained notoriety in a
4:25:06 > 4:25:09BBC News segment which was very powerful piece about the housing
4:25:09 > 4:25:17crisis generally. This is not a suitable condition for her or her
4:25:17 > 4:25:21two children to live in. They all sleep in the same room, all of their
4:25:21 > 4:25:25beds are next to each other. Hasan has been deferred to mental health
4:25:25 > 4:25:30service and they have taken the trouble to redecorate his room to
4:25:30 > 4:25:36try and make sure he had a better environment. That was also temporary
4:25:36 > 4:25:41accommodation, he has since been moved on and is back to square one.
4:25:41 > 4:25:44Her daughter is going through puberty very uncomfortable with the
4:25:44 > 4:25:49fact she has to sleep in such close proximity to her mother and younger
4:25:49 > 4:25:55brother. I have to say the housing case I see most troubling of all was
4:25:55 > 4:25:59the 11-year-old boy who approached me after a school visit at the end
4:25:59 > 4:26:03of the lesson to tell me he wanted to speak to me privately which is
4:26:03 > 4:26:08unusual for an 11-year-old. I went to the headteacher's office and met
4:26:08 > 4:26:14with him. The reason he wanted to see me was, you grew up in a council
4:26:14 > 4:26:19flat didn't you? Can you help me and my mum and two brothers because we
4:26:19 > 4:26:27live in one room in a hostel in the constituency Ilford South. It really
4:26:27 > 4:26:31breaks my heart because one of the things motivated me to get involved
4:26:31 > 4:26:36in politics in the first place was an awareness as I was growing up I
4:26:36 > 4:26:40didn't have the same opportunities of the people from wealthier
4:26:40 > 4:26:44backgrounds. Thanks to a good education is changed my life. A
4:26:44 > 4:26:52council estate boy could be an MP. I have no doubt he approached me
4:26:52 > 4:26:55because he thought I would understand the position he is in.
4:26:55 > 4:27:00The truth is I don't. Growing up in that council flat in the 1980s which
4:27:00 > 4:27:05I thought was a terrible place to live, I realise how lucky I was to
4:27:05 > 4:27:10have a place where my mother had security of tenure, where we were at
4:27:10 > 4:27:13risk of being evicted overnight and when it meant I could go to the same
4:27:13 > 4:27:18school with the same friends and have some degree of stability if not
4:27:18 > 4:27:23all of the opportunities money can buy. The truth is, kids growing up
4:27:23 > 4:27:27in the same circumstances I grew up in today are in a worse position
4:27:27 > 4:27:33than I grew up in. This country is going backwards not forwards and it
4:27:33 > 4:27:37is simply intolerable. I have heard some cliched speeches in this place
4:27:37 > 4:27:42about how can we afford to revamp the Palace of Westminster or how can
4:27:42 > 4:27:46we afford to find money for the revamp of Buckingham Palace? You can
4:27:46 > 4:27:51make a case to make sure we look after our national institutions and
4:27:51 > 4:27:57fabric but people have surprised when they say, why can we find money
4:27:57 > 4:28:00for those projects that you can't find money for housing? I will
4:28:00 > 4:28:05conclude with the point, this doesn't rest on his shoulders.
4:28:05 > 4:28:09Pretty much every policy we had the Conservative Party conference this
4:28:09 > 4:28:14year and in previous years has been about tackling the demand side of
4:28:14 > 4:28:18the problem, helping problem -- people to buy their own home but
4:28:18 > 4:28:27this is a supply places. The -- sensible thing the Minister has said
4:28:27 > 4:28:37is we need money to build new homes. Helen Hayes.I congratulate my
4:28:37 > 4:28:40honourable friend for securing this important debate and on her powerful
4:28:40 > 4:28:45speech. It is a pleasure to follow my honourable friend the member for
4:28:45 > 4:28:53Ilford North. Both councils have amongst the most of this is council
4:28:53 > 4:28:56House building programmes in the country, they are doing everything
4:28:56 > 4:29:12possible to deliver new affordable homes. They face an impossible task
4:29:12 > 4:29:19in the current policy and funding environment. In 2015-16, said the
4:29:19 > 4:29:24council placed 3400 households in temporary accommodation. In Lambeth
4:29:24 > 4:29:26there are 1500 councils including 5000 children in temporary
4:29:26 > 4:29:34accommodation. Cervix spend has gone up fivefold since 2011, -- so that's
4:29:34 > 4:29:41spent. This increase in expenditure has come at the same time the
4:29:41 > 4:29:48government has cut 50% of the grant for both councils. 70,000 households
4:29:48 > 4:29:56including 120,000 children are living in temporary accommodation.
4:29:56 > 4:30:00Each one of these households are placed at greater risk of physical
4:30:00 > 4:30:03and mental ill-health and children in particular are more likely than
4:30:03 > 4:30:06their peers to have respiratory problems. Across the country,
4:30:06 > 4:30:14expenditure is up around £845 million was spent on temporary
4:30:14 > 4:30:22accommodation nationally in 2015-2016. It isn't money well spent
4:30:22 > 4:30:26to deliver better outcomes, it is money spent in a situation of last
4:30:26 > 4:30:31resort delivered in distress and instability. Responsibility for this
4:30:31 > 4:30:36growth breast squarely at the door of this government. Government
4:30:36 > 4:30:40policy is directly driving the increase in homelessness. It is the
4:30:40 > 4:30:43government which imposes a cap on the local housing allowance causing
4:30:43 > 4:30:48an increase in the number of people becoming homeless because they are
4:30:48 > 4:30:51unable to afford the cost of an increase in rent which has been left
4:30:51 > 4:30:56behind by the rate. The cap could not be more stark than in Southwark
4:30:56 > 4:31:10where they capped rate is 38% of the average rental sector. The NHA is
4:31:10 > 4:31:13capped at £265 a week. Soon there will be no private sector
4:31:13 > 4:31:16accommodation available in the borough at all which can be afforded
4:31:16 > 4:31:23by a resident reliance on the and 88. This is forcing previous
4:31:23 > 4:31:27households to seek support from the council because they find themselves
4:31:27 > 4:31:35facing homelessness. Temporary accommodation is often where these
4:31:35 > 4:31:39households are placed. It is the government which is refusing to
4:31:39 > 4:31:43listen to the evidence that the six weeks delay in receiving Universal
4:31:43 > 4:31:46Credit 's payment is directly contributing to an increase in
4:31:46 > 4:31:56homelessness.
4:31:57 > 4:32:04It is the government which has presided in a drop of social houses
4:32:04 > 4:32:08are from 95% since 2010. I was proud last year to have supported the
4:32:08 > 4:32:13homelessness eviction act which amazed from a select committee. It
4:32:13 > 4:32:18places an emphasis on helping people facing homelessness to prevent them
4:32:18 > 4:32:24from becoming homeless. It comes into force next year. Preventing
4:32:24 > 4:32:27homelessness is labour-intensive and then a grave concerns that the
4:32:27 > 4:32:30funding the government has committed to the implementation of the
4:32:30 > 4:32:33homelessness protection act won't come close to resource in councils
4:32:33 > 4:32:37to implement it. The act was largely based on legislation in place in
4:32:37 > 4:32:42Wales but the scale of the challenge is completely different in England.
4:32:42 > 4:32:46Southwark made more homelessness applications decisions last year and
4:32:46 > 4:32:50were made in the whole of Wales over the same period. The homelessness
4:32:50 > 4:32:55eviction act must be resourced if it is to be effective. If it is not the
4:32:55 > 4:32:57government will have missed an opportunity to take meaningful
4:32:57 > 4:33:02action to prevent homelessness. I want to say a word about the
4:33:02 > 4:33:07personal consequences of living in temporary accommodation. Every week
4:33:07 > 4:33:10and my surgeries I see people who are at their wits and living in a
4:33:10 > 4:33:18accommodation that is overcrowded and damp. They are the most
4:33:18 > 4:33:30harrowing and assessing I have heard. I think of the woman who was
4:33:30 > 4:33:34she was pregnant was placed in a studio flat with no running water
4:33:34 > 4:33:37where she remained after the birth of her child. The only alternative
4:33:37 > 4:33:43was a mixed sex hostel on accommodation a long way from her
4:33:43 > 4:33:48family. The couple who live with their three children, two of whom
4:33:48 > 4:33:50has sickle cell disease in accommodation which is damp, cold
4:33:50 > 4:33:58and Molde, kid dishes which precipitate sickle cell crises. The
4:33:58 > 4:34:00conditions in which these constituents are forced to live a
4:34:00 > 4:34:05distressing enough but the also said that the psychological consequences
4:34:05 > 4:34:09of living in in security without a permanent home, unable to put down
4:34:09 > 4:34:14roots and travelling a long way to maintain employment and supportive
4:34:14 > 4:34:18relationships particularly with their children's school. The
4:34:18 > 4:34:22government is perpetuating this problem. Most notably with regard to
4:34:22 > 4:34:26the cap and Universal Credit when the same public sector funds spent
4:34:26 > 4:34:35on poor quality accommodation could be made to sustain tenancies. In his
4:34:35 > 4:34:39forthcoming budget speech at the Chancellor has an opportunity a
4:34:39 > 4:34:42month before Christmas to stem the increase in families living in
4:34:42 > 4:34:46temporary accommodation and take action to tackle this. The
4:34:46 > 4:35:02government must lift the cap on the NHA. -- LHA. It must make funding
4:35:02 > 4:35:05available to councils and housing associations to address the
4:35:05 > 4:35:08shortfall in supply in the short term. The increase in the number of
4:35:08 > 4:35:12families living in temporary accommodation is to this government
4:35:12 > 4:35:15's's shame and it must take action to reduce the distress and the
4:35:15 > 4:35:24damage that it failed housing policies are taking. Angela Crawley.
4:35:24 > 4:35:28Can I firstly thank the honourable member for Mitcham and Morden for
4:35:28 > 4:35:33bringing forward this debate and via her own heartfelt contribution and
4:35:33 > 4:35:38remarks. None of us could fail to be moved by her call for change for the
4:35:38 > 4:35:42families who are here today and the many more who are affected by the
4:35:42 > 4:35:46scourge of homelessness and temporary accommodation. I recognise
4:35:46 > 4:35:57the contributions of the honourable members who spoke of their
4:35:57 > 4:36:00backgrounds. Nobody should be ashamed about where they came from
4:36:00 > 4:36:07and make sure young men like the honourable member for Ilford North
4:36:07 > 4:36:11spoke of, young men can see this place there are people who represent
4:36:11 > 4:36:14them and to understand where we come from. The honourable member for
4:36:14 > 4:36:20Tottenham spoke at length about the right to buy and he is Scotland we
4:36:20 > 4:36:24abolish the right to buy and it is necessary that this government
4:36:24 > 4:36:29replaces the social housing. They have to define what it constitutes
4:36:29 > 4:36:36as affordable homes. What exactly is an affordable home? The honourable
4:36:36 > 4:36:40member for Redditch spoke at length about the role of Universal Credit
4:36:40 > 4:36:45which was only rolled out in her constituency last week.
4:36:45 > 4:36:51Thank you for giving way. The roll-out of Universal Credit started
4:36:51 > 4:36:54in Inverness with a pilot in 2013 and since then we have been
4:36:54 > 4:36:59reporting to the UK Government a range of problems that have been
4:36:59 > 4:37:04cause for people. Needing to people being evicted from their homes
4:37:04 > 4:37:07adding to the homelessness numbers. As my honourable friend agree with
4:37:07 > 4:37:12me this is a ridiculous situation and a stressful one to put people
4:37:12 > 4:37:16through and contributing to a much greater distress than it should be?
4:37:16 > 4:37:20I thank my honourable friend for those comments. I equalled those
4:37:20 > 4:37:24sentiments. I represent a constituency where we witnessed the
4:37:24 > 4:37:31roll-out of universes credit some years ago. This government and its
4:37:31 > 4:37:36particular governing party would trial and error examples of its
4:37:36 > 4:37:39catastrophic programmes for government in Scotland and only to
4:37:39 > 4:37:49hear the honourable member red bit has kindly informed me it happened
4:37:49 > 4:37:54to her last week. Come to my constituency to the Highlands and
4:37:54 > 4:37:58Islands and see how the roll-out really works because it is not
4:37:58 > 4:38:05working. The fact is I am sure all of us can agree when it comes to our
4:38:05 > 4:38:08constituents they approach with regard to homelessness and temporary
4:38:08 > 4:38:12accommodation is absolutely pivotal to predicting that protecting
4:38:12 > 4:38:17families who are impacted. It is unclear, or rather it is clear, how
4:38:17 > 4:38:22harrowing this situation can be for many of the people who come to our
4:38:22 > 4:38:28constituency surgery. Growing up in a council damp House, I come here to
4:38:28 > 4:38:31represent my neighbours are my friends who continue to live in
4:38:31 > 4:38:37those houses, who continued to live in those conditions. It is
4:38:37 > 4:38:40refreshing to hear people talking of their background because nobody in
4:38:40 > 4:38:45this place has the same level of privilege. In this House we are all
4:38:45 > 4:38:49equal. Homelessness is a result of complex and difficult circumstances.
4:38:49 > 4:38:55It can be from a need to escape abuse in the home, from job loss,
4:38:55 > 4:38:59financial insecurity and be as a result of holes in the Social
4:38:59 > 4:39:02Security system that allow people to fall through which should be a
4:39:02 > 4:39:12safety net. When people are facing homelessness they approach as in a
4:39:12 > 4:39:15time of need, they are in a vulnerable position. They are scared
4:39:15 > 4:39:27and stressed. I may be generalising but the point is, to leave people
4:39:27 > 4:39:34with nowhere to go is immoral and I yet met from the benches. I hope you
4:39:34 > 4:39:41have constituency can enlighten you. The right honourable member can
4:39:41 > 4:39:47respond to his constituencies and explain why he has not yet resolved
4:39:47 > 4:39:50this issue as the minister responsible for this. I will
4:39:50 > 4:39:56continue on.
4:39:56 > 4:40:01All four nations of the UK have legislated to introduce a legal duty
4:40:01 > 4:40:05to secure accommodation for at least some of those people rendered
4:40:05 > 4:40:10homeless. Scottish local authorities have a statutory duty to find
4:40:10 > 4:40:13permanent accommodation for all applicants unintentionally homeless
4:40:13 > 4:40:18or faced with the threat of homelessness. I recognise how
4:40:18 > 4:40:21difficult and challenging that task is and I recognise the hard work of
4:40:21 > 4:40:24the housing offices in South Lanarkshire across Scotland and
4:40:24 > 4:40:29across the UK who work hard every day to ensure that no one is left
4:40:29 > 4:40:33without a roof over their head every night. For every person who comes to
4:40:33 > 4:40:38the door of a council office, surgeries or visit the local
4:40:38 > 4:40:42councillor, I am reminded every time of one particular example, the story
4:40:42 > 4:40:45of a mother and two children sleeping on a friend's so far after
4:40:49 > 4:40:52escaping an abusive relationship. I want to ensure that she can sleep
4:40:52 > 4:40:56somewhere safe that night but no doubt the conditions she was forced
4:40:56 > 4:41:02to stay in, no matter how great it was to have a roof over her head, it
4:41:02 > 4:41:05was temporary accommodation, damp, and unfit to take two young and
4:41:05 > 4:41:10vulnerable children into. This is the reality many families face
4:41:10 > 4:41:13across the country. For those with nowhere to sleep tonight housing
4:41:13 > 4:41:18officers make arrangements for them not to sleep on the street. Some
4:41:18 > 4:41:22experience homelessness as a result of drug and alcohol abuse. Others
4:41:22 > 4:41:28through depression or even a veteran experiencing PTSD after returning
4:41:28 > 4:41:32from active duty. This does not generalise the examples of people
4:41:32 > 4:41:37who find themselves without homes to sleep into night but the fact is,
4:41:37 > 4:41:42not only having temporary accommodation places available, to
4:41:42 > 4:41:47act as councillors to give advice to people in crisis or to listen daily
4:41:47 > 4:41:50to the truly harrowing stories and to help people get back on their
4:41:50 > 4:41:55feet, they need the support too and the funding and this government must
4:41:55 > 4:41:59recognise that they have a role to play in this. The reality is we need
4:41:59 > 4:42:06to ensure that council officers are appropriately funded and that
4:42:06 > 4:42:09council services are appropriate funded. Local authorities have
4:42:09 > 4:42:13relevant funding and the key communication that must take place
4:42:13 > 4:42:17between local authorities is in place. The fact is, as many have
4:42:17 > 4:42:24outlined previously, in Scotland, devolved is devolved and the
4:42:24 > 4:42:27Scottish Government have gone to great lengths to ensure that those
4:42:27 > 4:42:30who find themselves homeless are protected but the fact is for a
4:42:30 > 4:42:34variety of reasons many are simply not afforded those protections and
4:42:34 > 4:42:41no matter how all have the government tries, I believe the
4:42:41 > 4:42:44government, for all of its failures and losses, that I may stand on this
4:42:44 > 4:42:49side of the house and criticise but I also recognise it's a challenge
4:42:49 > 4:42:51for any government to tackle homelessness and I do not wish to
4:42:51 > 4:42:56stand here and throw stones at glasshouses. This will go in my
4:42:56 > 4:43:00favour, I hope, when I ask the Minister the following questions. I
4:43:00 > 4:43:03hope that you will recognise that I want to work with this government so
4:43:03 > 4:43:08I want to ask this minister, will the government acknowledged
4:43:08 > 4:43:12Universal Credit? Will he acknowledged that a 6-12 week delay
4:43:12 > 4:43:16in what I have personally experienced in constituents in South
4:43:16 > 4:43:20Lanarkshire under the pilot of Universal Credit is unacceptable?
4:43:20 > 4:43:24Will this government acknowledge that the government must do more to
4:43:24 > 4:43:27tackle homelessness throughout the UK and will the Minister come to my
4:43:27 > 4:43:31constituency to see the Universal Credit impact first-hand? What
4:43:31 > 4:43:34action will it take to prevent people from sleeping in the cold
4:43:34 > 4:43:38tonight and what action will it take to ensure a family is on hand to
4:43:38 > 4:43:41sleep on someone else's sofa tonight? What commitment will be
4:43:41 > 4:43:46government make to tackle the problems of homelessness and
4:43:46 > 4:43:49temporary accommodation and will be government to ensure the necessary
4:43:49 > 4:43:52funding and support it provides, ensuring those who deliver those
4:43:52 > 4:43:56valuable services are supported to do so. I'm calling on everyone in
4:43:56 > 4:43:59this house to check your privilege and do not forget why you came here
4:43:59 > 4:44:03in the first place because there's a reason why we are here, there's an
4:44:03 > 4:44:07opportunity to change this. I want to work with this government. Let's
4:44:07 > 4:44:13do more to tackle homelessness.John Healey.Thank you, Madam Deputy
4:44:13 > 4:44:17Speaker. I think what has been a really powerful and moving debate is
4:44:17 > 4:44:21a testimony to the importance of the reform of introducing a backbench
4:44:21 > 4:44:26business committee and these debates. Can I congratulate my
4:44:26 > 4:44:29honourable friend, the member for Mitch Inman modern, she told me
4:44:29 > 4:44:34before this debate that she had 44 members from all sites behind her
4:44:34 > 4:44:42bid for this debate. I think she has led it very effectively but this is
4:44:42 > 4:44:48such an important debate, so badly squeezed for time this afternoon,
4:44:48 > 4:44:52she gave us a speech which those of us who know her and know her well
4:44:52 > 4:44:58have come to see as a characteristic. It was passionate,
4:44:58 > 4:45:02practical, and it was laced with the personal commitment and care that
4:45:02 > 4:45:07she gives to her constituents. At one point, Madam Deputy Speaker, she
4:45:07 > 4:45:11said she was worried she could not find the right words in order to
4:45:11 > 4:45:17convey the anguish of some of her constituents. She did, and in doing
4:45:17 > 4:45:20so, she did her constituents proud and did this house a real service
4:45:20 > 4:45:28this afternoon. In a country as decent and well off as ours, it
4:45:28 > 4:45:33really should shame us all that 120,000 children this Christmas will
4:45:33 > 4:45:40have no home. And spend Christmas Day in bed-and-breakfast style
4:45:40 > 4:45:45accommodations, hostels, and, in some cases, Private rented
4:45:45 > 4:45:50accommodation which just is simply not fit for human habitation. As we
4:45:50 > 4:45:54have heard this afternoon. Madam Deputy Speaker, this has been a
4:45:54 > 4:45:58really important debate. What it has underlined from a number of
4:45:58 > 4:46:02contributions is that temporary accommodation is too often not
4:46:02 > 4:46:07temporary but Karen last up to a decade or more. Temporary
4:46:07 > 4:46:14accommodation is too often substandard, and sometimes downright
4:46:14 > 4:46:17dangerous. Temporary accommodation is not available in people's and
4:46:17 > 4:46:24home areas. Some of the solutions were set out for the house today as
4:46:24 > 4:46:27well. Tougher planning obligations that the honourable member for
4:46:27 > 4:46:34Thirsk and Malton asked for, build more social rented homes and council
4:46:34 > 4:46:38homes. My right honourable friend, the member for Tottenham, for
4:46:38 > 4:46:45Brentford and Isa worth, for Enfield Southgate, they all made that
4:46:45 > 4:46:49argument -- Isa worth. Back Private landlord licensing, as my honourable
4:46:49 > 4:47:02friend, the member for West Ham argued. Ends temporary -- replace
4:47:02 > 4:47:05all right to buy sales with new council and social rented homes, as
4:47:05 > 4:47:16the honourable member for Lanark and Hamilton East argued, and longer
4:47:16 > 4:47:22tendencies as the member for Harrow East argued for. Homelessness is
4:47:22 > 4:47:28both highly visible with the rapidly increasing number of people we see
4:47:28 > 4:47:34sleeping rough on our streets but it is also hidden. Homelessness crisis
4:47:34 > 4:47:39is essentially a hidden crisis in our country today. The figures for
4:47:39 > 4:47:42temporary accommodation, which are in the motion before us today, are
4:47:42 > 4:47:49the tip of the iceberg. Our councils across the country, irrespective of
4:47:49 > 4:47:52political party leadership, are doing their best, as my honourable
4:47:52 > 4:47:56friend, the member for Ilford North, said of his own in Redbridge. As
4:47:56 > 4:48:03well as the 60,000 families accepted as statutory homeless in the last
4:48:03 > 4:48:07year by our councils, together they helped prevent homelessness, or
4:48:07 > 4:48:14helped to house, 215,000 more families. In the last year. But they
4:48:14 > 4:48:20are doing their best at the same time as the numbers and pressures
4:48:20 > 4:48:24are rising. The options available for housing for councils are
4:48:24 > 4:48:30reducing and that is why we have seen the number of people accepted
4:48:30 > 4:48:35as statutory homeless rise since 2010 by nearly 50%. That's why we
4:48:35 > 4:48:39seen the numbers of rough sleeping homelessness more than double. It
4:48:39 > 4:48:45has gone up by 50% in the last two years alone. The honourable member
4:48:45 > 4:48:48for Harrow East's Homelessness Reduction Act, for which my
4:48:48 > 4:48:56honourable member, my honourable friend, led for Labour on the select
4:48:56 > 4:49:01committee, the member for Norwood, it's a good step. It had all-party
4:49:01 > 4:49:04support, including from the front bench but it comes to something when
4:49:04 > 4:49:08there is one standout piece of housing legislation and housing
4:49:08 > 4:49:11policy from a Conservative government which came from the bank
4:49:11 > 4:49:15benches and not the front benches in the last seven years but I pay
4:49:15 > 4:49:19tribute to the honourable member for Nuneaton. I'm well aware of how hard
4:49:19 > 4:49:24behind the scenes he worked with colleagues to get backing for the
4:49:24 > 4:49:28bill and get financial resources behind the bill. My honourable
4:49:28 > 4:49:31friend, the member for donnish and West Norwood says that there is very
4:49:31 > 4:49:38much more to do on that. -- Dulwich. While I am speaking about this, my
4:49:38 > 4:49:44honourable friend was right. This legislation this house passed was
4:49:44 > 4:49:51modelled on the Housing Wales act 2014. It was introduced four years
4:49:51 > 4:49:58ago this month by Carl Sargeant. I think today, the house will want to
4:49:58 > 4:50:04pay the deepest sympathies to his family, his wife and his close
4:50:04 > 4:50:11friends. He was a passionate politician that the community at the
4:50:11 > 4:50:20heart of all of his politics. His legislation was the first-ever piece
4:50:20 > 4:50:23of housing legislation passed in Wales and today I think we mark his
4:50:23 > 4:50:31legacy because every month in Wales, hundreds of families are helped to
4:50:31 > 4:50:34avoid the trauma of homelessness because of his legislation and what
4:50:34 > 4:50:42he did. The reason that it offered some remedies but no solutions is
4:50:42 > 4:50:46that it does not deal with the root causes of the rapidly rising
4:50:46 > 4:50:51homelessness. I have to say that many of those are now driven by
4:50:51 > 4:50:57decisions taken by this government over the last seven years. A big cut
4:50:57 > 4:51:01in investment in new, affordable homes. The ending of all government
4:51:01 > 4:51:05investment behind social rented homes. Crude cuts to housing
4:51:05 > 4:51:09benefit. The introduction of the roll-out of Universal Credit, and
4:51:09 > 4:51:14reform. Reduced funding for homelessness services, the lack of
4:51:14 > 4:51:20action to protect private renters and, I said to my honourable friend,
4:51:20 > 4:51:24connect how is probably only exists because of changes in the planning
4:51:24 > 4:51:28regime that this government brought in to prevent councils from being
4:51:28 > 4:51:34able to stop or give permission to that sort of development -- Connect
4:51:34 > 4:51:39House. But Mr Speaker, it works because we've done it before. The
4:51:39 > 4:51:43minister is sometimes guilty of saying, in response to the rapidly
4:51:43 > 4:51:47rising homelessness, that it was high and Labour. And he is right, of
4:51:47 > 4:51:55course. When we came in in 1997, the levels were over 100000 and rising.
4:51:55 > 4:52:01It peaked in 2003 but the critical question is the action we took them.
4:52:01 > 4:52:04And the fact that after that, the independent Joseph Rowntree trust
4:52:04 > 4:52:11and crisis monitor described it as an unprecedented decline in
4:52:11 > 4:52:14statutory homelessness and we saw the level of rough sleeping
4:52:14 > 4:52:20homelessness down by over 75%. It can be done, we know what works, let
4:52:20 > 4:52:26us do it. Can I recommend, finally, to finish... This is a government
4:52:26 > 4:52:31with no majority in this house. No real mandate in the country and
4:52:31 > 4:52:34without a domestic policy programme because it isn't covered by the deal
4:52:34 > 4:52:39with the DUP. Let me offer, in the spirit of a backbench business
4:52:39 > 4:52:42committee debate like this, action the government could take to start
4:52:42 > 4:52:46to get to the bottom and deal with the homelessness crisis that we
4:52:46 > 4:52:50face. Overhaul the way we measure of rough sleeping so we know how many
4:52:50 > 4:52:54people are sleeping rough on the streets. Transform capacity to get
4:52:54 > 4:53:00people off the streets for good by making 4000 homes available now for
4:53:00 > 4:53:05people with a history of rough sleeping. Halt plans to change
4:53:05 > 4:53:08supported housing which could still lead to the closure of homeless
4:53:08 > 4:53:15hostels. Protect the housing cost element of Universal Credit. Above
4:53:15 > 4:53:22all, build thousands, tens of thousands, of new homes. Affordable
4:53:22 > 4:53:27and for social rent, including council homes, needed to help to fix
4:53:27 > 4:53:30the housing crisis and increase security for private renters. Make
4:53:30 > 4:53:37three-year is the norm. Cap and control the rise in rent. That way
4:53:37 > 4:53:45we can tackle the homelessness crisis. I'm just winding up, I will
4:53:45 > 4:53:50if he presses me.I thank the honourable gentleman for his remarks
4:53:50 > 4:53:53on the support for the Homelessness Reduction Act. While I am on my
4:53:53 > 4:53:59feet, may I just draw the members attention to my entry, which I
4:53:59 > 4:54:04inadvertently forgot to do when I spoke. Can he inform us of the
4:54:04 > 4:54:10policy of the Labour Party, in relation to the NHA. The honourable
4:54:10 > 4:54:13member for Dulwich and West Norwood drew attention to this particular
4:54:13 > 4:54:18issue and so far in his speech, he has been silent on that particular
4:54:18 > 4:54:21issue and I would be quite keen, and I think the whole house would be, to
4:54:21 > 4:54:29hear the view of the opposition on what should happen on NHA.
4:54:29 > 4:54:34I think that is a disappointing intervention. I will send him our
4:54:34 > 4:54:39manifesto. We would end the bedroom tax, he brought it in. We will
4:54:39 > 4:54:45restore housing benefit support, they cut it. We will review the
4:54:45 > 4:54:48housing benefit system including the local housing allowance and the lack
4:54:48 > 4:54:54of a link with rising rents which they brought in. Problems in the
4:54:54 > 4:54:58system which are driving directly the rapidly rising homelessness and
4:54:58 > 4:55:03need for temporary accommodation we see. I hope this debate will give a
4:55:03 > 4:55:08lead to the government, accepting there are problems, agreeing with
4:55:08 > 4:55:14concerns raised is not enough. Action is now needed. Let's hear
4:55:14 > 4:55:21from the government that is exactly what they will do.Minister.
4:55:21 > 4:55:25I would like to start by congratulating the honourable member
4:55:25 > 4:55:33for more than four security in this debate on such an important subject.
4:55:33 > 4:55:36The provision of good temporary accommodation is a vital part of
4:55:36 > 4:55:41getting people to help they need. And ensure a family is never without
4:55:41 > 4:55:45a roof over their head. The number of households in temporary
4:55:45 > 4:55:52accommodation does remain below the peak of the levels experienced in
4:55:52 > 4:55:59September 2004. This government is not complacent. In order to ensure
4:55:59 > 4:56:02families and moved into settled accommodation more quickly and spend
4:56:02 > 4:56:05less time in temporary accommodation, we took a major step
4:56:05 > 4:56:11and change the law in 2011 so councils can place families in
4:56:11 > 4:56:17decent and affordable private rented homes. The quality of temporary
4:56:17 > 4:56:24accommodation is extremely important. The quality and standard
4:56:24 > 4:56:27for temporary accommodation is ensured through a legal duty placed
4:56:27 > 4:56:31on local authorities that they must undertake an assessment of
4:56:31 > 4:56:38suitability before any one in temporary accommodation.
4:56:38 > 4:56:41Affordability, its size and condition, accessibility and
4:56:41 > 4:56:46location should be taken into account. This assessment includes
4:56:46 > 4:56:51destruction to jobs and children schooling. Point I note that have
4:56:51 > 4:56:55been made during this debate. Just to pick up on the first point the
4:56:55 > 4:57:03honourable lady raised. Through my response I will respond to as many
4:57:03 > 4:57:08of her questions as possible. Just on the point of health and safety,
4:57:08 > 4:57:14this is a situation we should take extremely seriously. All homes
4:57:14 > 4:57:18should be of a reasonable standard antennas should have a safe place to
4:57:18 > 4:57:26live regardless of tenure. Local authorities have strong powers to
4:57:26 > 4:57:30deal with unsafe accommodation. The housing health and safety rating
4:57:30 > 4:57:34system assesses the health and safety risks in all residential
4:57:34 > 4:57:39properties. If the property is found containing serious hazard the local
4:57:39 > 4:57:43authority has a duty to take the most appropriate action. We expect
4:57:43 > 4:57:48local authorities to use those powers so it is important that
4:57:48 > 4:57:57safety is always met and we ensure homes are of a decent standard.
4:57:57 > 4:58:00Madam Deputy Speaker, we are also embarking on an ambitious programme
4:58:00 > 4:58:05to reform the response to homelessness which will replace
4:58:05 > 4:58:11prevention right at the heart of its approach. So far, this has included
4:58:11 > 4:58:15replacing the DWP temporary accommodation management fee with a
4:58:15 > 4:58:17flexible homelessness support grant which allows local authorities to
4:58:17 > 4:58:24prevent homelessness. Taken action earlier and getting on the front
4:58:24 > 4:58:27foot in order to prevent homelessness will result in fewer
4:58:27 > 4:58:32households having to face the stress and upheaval of a homelessness
4:58:32 > 4:58:37crisis. We expect it will relieve the pressure on temporary
4:58:37 > 4:58:42accommodation. This funding will drive change in local areas and my
4:58:42 > 4:58:46ambition is to see local authorities and voluntary sector organisations,
4:58:46 > 4:58:51health services and the wider public sector working partnership to
4:58:51 > 4:58:55deliver services that support people's needs. We've allocated £950
4:58:55 > 4:59:03million to deduce rough sleeping as well as supporting my honourable
4:59:03 > 4:59:10friend 's homelessness protection act. The act is the most ambitious
4:59:10 > 4:59:14legislative reform in decades. It will fundamentally transform the
4:59:14 > 4:59:19culture of homelessness, service delivery. Local authorities public
4:59:19 > 4:59:24bodies and the third sector will work together to actively prevent
4:59:24 > 4:59:30homelessness for all those at risk, irrespective of priority need,
4:59:30 > 4:59:33intentional homelessness or local connection. The actor will require
4:59:33 > 4:59:37local authorities to work with those in need to develop personalised
4:59:37 > 4:59:41housing plans which will be tailored to focus on the knees and
4:59:41 > 4:59:45circumstances of the individual. This can include actions for other
4:59:45 > 4:59:49support services which are best suited to support the individual.
4:59:49 > 4:59:54Alongside the act we are making positive changes in the way we
4:59:54 > 4:59:58gather statutorily homelessness data, a point that was rightly
4:59:58 > 5:00:02raised by the Right honourable gentleman on the opposition front
5:00:02 > 5:00:06bench. The additional data we are going to gather will enable us to
5:00:06 > 5:00:11get a better insight into rooms of causes of homelessness and support
5:00:11 > 5:00:16the people need. It will enable us to monitor and help people who have
5:00:16 > 5:00:21received help from their local authority and whether it helps to
5:00:21 > 5:00:28prevent them becoming -- from not becoming homeless. It'll provide us
5:00:28 > 5:00:34with more detail on temporary accommodation amplified to those in
5:00:34 > 5:00:37need including size, location and quality of accommodation. To support
5:00:37 > 5:00:42the delivery of that we are widely consulting on the revised
5:00:42 > 5:00:51statutorily homeless guide. We will be providing £72.7 million of
5:00:51 > 5:00:58funding in line with the new burdens doctoring. We want to see fewer
5:00:58 > 5:01:00individuals and families face homelessness and we are committed to
5:01:00 > 5:01:05ending rough sleeping and we want to deduce homelessness overdrawn. We
5:01:05 > 5:01:08are setting up a homelessness reduction task force which will
5:01:08 > 5:01:12focus on prevention and the important issue of affordable
5:01:12 > 5:01:18housing. To take on some of the other point the honourable lady for
5:01:18 > 5:01:29Mitcham and Morden made, in terms of the homelessness protection act in
5:01:29 > 5:01:33the Department, we have employed a team of advisers because the
5:01:33 > 5:01:37honourable lady quite rightly mentioned how we're going to hold
5:01:37 > 5:01:42local ladies to account and think it is about not holding them to account
5:01:42 > 5:01:48but supporting them to make sure places have the right systems and
5:01:48 > 5:01:53work practices in place. That team will go out to support local
5:01:53 > 5:01:57authorities in the implementation of the homeless reduction act. In terms
5:01:57 > 5:02:03of the code of guidance which I have also mentioned, that is an extremely
5:02:03 > 5:02:08important place that we need to get to to make sure the code of guidance
5:02:08 > 5:02:14reflects some of the challenges the honourable lady mentioned. It is
5:02:14 > 5:02:20also important to say and they know my honourable friend for Harrow,
5:02:20 > 5:02:26there is also the provision for the government to bring forward a code
5:02:26 > 5:02:32of practice if it is deemed necessary because local authorities
5:02:32 > 5:02:37are not taking on their responsibilities under the code of
5:02:37 > 5:02:44guidance. I also heard were the honourable lady had to say about
5:02:44 > 5:02:49some of the temporary accommodation in her constituency. I wasn't aware
5:02:49 > 5:02:56of the meeting she is holding tonight, I can't make that meeting.
5:02:56 > 5:03:00What I would say is I take the comments she made in that respect
5:03:00 > 5:03:06very seriously indeed. I would be grateful if the honourable lady
5:03:06 > 5:03:10would be willing to meet with me in the Department to go through and
5:03:10 > 5:03:20discuss the concerns she had in more detail. My honourable friend
5:03:20 > 5:03:23mentioned bed-and-breakfast and in terms of the use of bed and
5:03:23 > 5:03:26breakfast in the last few quarters, the usage of bed-and-breakfast is
5:03:26 > 5:03:37starting to deduce. It is good news. But again we are not complacent.
5:03:37 > 5:03:40Importantly, there are certain local authorities such as Barnett,
5:03:40 > 5:03:45Haringey, Tower Hamlets, who are now in a position where they are not
5:03:45 > 5:03:50using bed-and-breakfast accommodation at all. We need to
5:03:50 > 5:03:55learn from the places where good practice is happening and again that
5:03:55 > 5:04:00is something the team of advisers our department is employing will be
5:04:00 > 5:04:05absolutely focused on spreading that best practice across the country.
5:04:05 > 5:04:12Affordable housing supply is mentioned. That is important. The
5:04:12 > 5:04:16government has delivered 240,000 affordable housing for rent since
5:04:16 > 5:04:242010. We want to build on that bring forward another 225,000 affordable
5:04:24 > 5:04:28homes by 2020. In terms of the recent announcements made, my right
5:04:28 > 5:04:32honourable friend the Secretary of State has been clear that we want to
5:04:32 > 5:04:39bring forward houses full social rent particularly in areas where
5:04:39 > 5:04:42there are extreme affordability challenges. My honourable friend for
5:04:42 > 5:04:57Harrow mention the issue of ending short tenancy. My department is
5:04:57 > 5:05:01committed to looking at how it can incentivise land was to provide
5:05:01 > 5:05:07longer tenancies. We will be coming forward with details with that soon.
5:05:07 > 5:05:10The right honourable gentleman on the opposition bench shakes his
5:05:10 > 5:05:16head. By incentivising landlords that is the right thing to do rather
5:05:16 > 5:05:20than bringing in things like rent controls. It has been widely
5:05:20 > 5:05:24acknowledged across the sector that will reduce supply rather than
5:05:24 > 5:05:30increase supply. Taking on the point the honourable lady made about the
5:05:30 > 5:05:34private sector licensing scheme. I hear what she said. She made an
5:05:34 > 5:05:37impassioned plea to the departments for that. I'm not directly making
5:05:37 > 5:05:41that decision that it will make sure the information she has put this
5:05:41 > 5:05:55debate is fed back full stop.If the department is is going to make a
5:05:55 > 5:05:59positive decision I'd like a meeting to discuss that with the Minister
5:05:59 > 5:06:03that is responsible if he can do anything to enable that to happen.
5:06:03 > 5:06:09I will do what I can in that sense. What I would say to the honourable
5:06:09 > 5:06:15lady is I expect a decision should not be too far away in relation to
5:06:15 > 5:06:23the issue she mentions. She mentioned rogue landlords. They form
5:06:23 > 5:06:29a small part of the private rented sector. But wherever rogue landlords
5:06:29 > 5:06:34exist we must drive them out of the system. We brought forward further
5:06:34 > 5:06:41measures such as being able to levy civil penalties of up to £30,000 on
5:06:41 > 5:06:46a rogue landlords. The penalty would go back to the local authority to
5:06:46 > 5:06:49invest in further enforcement powers. We have brought forward
5:06:49 > 5:06:55banning orders. People who are rogue landlords can be banned from renting
5:06:55 > 5:07:01property to people or from being a property agent. The honourable lady
5:07:01 > 5:07:04for Dulwich and West Norwood were mentioned the situation in
5:07:04 > 5:07:12Southwark. I was delighted seven to go to go to Southwark and visit
5:07:12 > 5:07:15their housing options team who are at an early adopter of the
5:07:15 > 5:07:21Homelessness Reduction Act. I was struck at the progress that is being
5:07:21 > 5:07:27made in Southwark. The positivity of the team in Southwark to Timmy seem
5:07:27 > 5:07:32to be doing a fantastic job and embraced the principles of the new
5:07:32 > 5:07:38legislation. It was obvious they were helping more people earlier.
5:07:38 > 5:07:43More people to stay in their home. I was extremely pleased with what I
5:07:43 > 5:07:47saw during the visit. I will give way.
5:07:47 > 5:07:50He is absolutely right to commend the excellent work Southwark council
5:07:50 > 5:07:59is doing as a trailblazer to implement this early. The government
5:07:59 > 5:08:02commitment for funding for the act extends to two years. Without a
5:08:02 > 5:08:07commitment to fund and the extent that is needed all that good work
5:08:07 > 5:08:14will be lost. We have invested £72 million in
5:08:14 > 5:08:17funding for Homelessness Reduction Act and was the act is coming into
5:08:17 > 5:08:23force in April we are putting a significant amount of that many
5:08:23 > 5:08:26earlier so the councils can gear up for the new act. She will know from
5:08:26 > 5:08:35being heavily involved in the Bill committee and through the process of
5:08:35 > 5:08:39legislation, which I commend her for, the government has committed to
5:08:39 > 5:08:45reviewing the new funding that is being provided within two years of
5:08:45 > 5:08:50the act been implemented. If I may map Madam Deputy Speaker, if I may
5:08:50 > 5:08:57just mention a point at the right honourable gentleman for Wentworth
5:08:57 > 5:09:00mentioned in terms of the Homelessness Reduction Act, what I
5:09:00 > 5:09:04can assure him of was we were looking very carefully at the
5:09:04 > 5:09:10legislation that had been brought forward in Wales. Whilst we were
5:09:10 > 5:09:14still in the process of considering that legislation I think it was an
5:09:14 > 5:09:17excellent opportunity when my honourable friend came forward from
5:09:17 > 5:09:22Harrow East and we embraced as a government what he came forward
5:09:22 > 5:09:31with. It would be remiss of me if I did not offer my condolences on the
5:09:31 > 5:09:34government to Carl Sargeant, the Welsh Assembly Member, who has
5:09:34 > 5:09:40regrettably passed away the stop just to say, just put on record I
5:09:40 > 5:09:45know the work he did on the Homelessness Reduction Act in Wales
5:09:45 > 5:09:51has made a significant difference to the lives of people in Wales and the
5:09:51 > 5:09:57House should remember that.
5:09:57 > 5:10:01Just to take up a couple of points that the member on the front bench
5:10:01 > 5:10:06mentioned, he mentioned action taken by Labour in 2003. I think when we
5:10:06 > 5:10:09look at what happened at the time we should not take away the fact that
5:10:09 > 5:10:13there were a lot of people move from their own areas during that period.
5:10:13 > 5:10:18A lot of those people were moved out places like Seaside resorts and that
5:10:18 > 5:10:22kind of thing where quite often there was little in terms of job
5:10:22 > 5:10:28prospects and the ability for to make decent lives and in some of
5:10:28 > 5:10:33those areas there is still a social challenge that has been caused
5:10:33 > 5:10:37because of the decisions that were made at the time. What I would like
5:10:37 > 5:10:43to say to the house is that this government is committed to tackling
5:10:43 > 5:10:48homelessness and taking an approach where we try and do the best they
5:10:48 > 5:10:54buy people, and the comment was made several times in this debate about
5:10:54 > 5:10:59people being moved out of areas, people should not be moved out of
5:10:59 > 5:11:04areas by compulsion. It should be a discussion had between the local
5:11:04 > 5:11:08authority and the individual based on that individual's circumstances
5:11:08 > 5:11:13at the time. On the other points he made, he mentioned the rough
5:11:13 > 5:11:19sleeping data. We have improved on that data since 2010 and I would
5:11:19 > 5:11:23point out to be right honourable gentleman that in 2010, councils
5:11:23 > 5:11:27were not compelled to provide rough sleeper dated to the department. We
5:11:27 > 5:11:34still want to go further forward and obtain or data -- more data because
5:11:34 > 5:11:39we know if we do that, we will be in a position to work out exactly what
5:11:39 > 5:11:44the challenges are and why people become homeless, and get far more
5:11:44 > 5:11:48effective at dealing with it. The other thing that was mentioned was
5:11:48 > 5:11:52rent controls and I certainly do not think that rent controls, as I said
5:11:52 > 5:11:57earlier in the debate, are a way in which we can help the situation. I
5:11:57 > 5:12:00think it would compound the situation and make it worse. I
5:12:00 > 5:12:04finally would like to thank again the honourable lady for allowing me
5:12:04 > 5:12:10to set out the government position on this extremely important issue,
5:12:10 > 5:12:13there's a considerable amount of work to do still that the government
5:12:13 > 5:12:17is making progress. We now need to accelerate that progress and I think
5:12:17 > 5:12:23we do that, particularly through the Homelessness Reduction Act and
5:12:23 > 5:12:27particularly through additional funding provided to local
5:12:27 > 5:12:29authorities and through the Homelessness Reduction Act task
5:12:29 > 5:12:39force.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, can I thank all members
5:12:39 > 5:12:42from both sides of the house for being involved in this important
5:12:42 > 5:12:48debate. Can I thank the Minister for meeting with me to talk about
5:12:48 > 5:12:54Connect House, I am very grateful. I do not wish to sound angry and
5:12:54 > 5:12:59petulant but I feel both. 84 families will still be in the middle
5:12:59 > 5:13:04of an industrial estate, tonight, tomorrow night, next year and the
5:13:04 > 5:13:08year after. Homeless families are the biggest reason for eviction,
5:13:08 > 5:13:13eviction from an assured short hold tenancy. No amount of advice at any
5:13:13 > 5:13:18point in the cycle will change that, because landlords can get more money
5:13:18 > 5:13:23if they ran their properties out to people who are not housing benefit
5:13:23 > 5:13:30or Universal Credit dependent. That side financial fact -- that is a
5:13:30 > 5:13:33financial fact, we can wish it better but it isn't going to work.
5:13:33 > 5:13:39The only thing that will work as a proper requirement for standards in
5:13:39 > 5:13:43temporary accommodation that are fiercely enforced by the government,
5:13:43 > 5:13:47that God help us, we require councils to tell other councils when
5:13:47 > 5:13:53they move a homeless family to that area. That would be revolutionary.
5:13:53 > 5:13:58Madam Deputy Speaker, I have worked in housing for 35 years. I have
5:13:58 > 5:14:02found accommodation for homeless families in the 1980s. I have dealt
5:14:02 > 5:14:09with families in bed-and-breakfast in the 1980s. I've never seen the
5:14:09 > 5:14:12numbers the light, and the sort of accommodation that people are
5:14:12 > 5:14:19currently living in. We either get real about it and do something real,
5:14:19 > 5:14:27or we risk a future crisis among Paul, dispossessed families of the
5:14:27 > 5:14:33like we will have difficulties in dealing with -- poor. I ask that
5:14:33 > 5:14:37people get real about the situation in which many constituents find
5:14:37 > 5:14:43themselves in.The question is as on the order paper, as many that are of
5:14:43 > 5:14:51the opinion so aye. And the country, no? The ayes Cavett. We now come to
5:14:51 > 5:14:56the general debate on matters to be raised before the forthcoming
5:14:56 > 5:15:07adjournment.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move for matters
5:15:07 > 5:15:12considered by the house prior to the short recess. May I start by giving
5:15:12 > 5:15:15apologies from the honourable member for Gateshead who was intending to
5:15:15 > 5:15:19lead the debate but because of the way that business has been rather
5:15:19 > 5:15:24squeezed, he has had to get back to his constituency as he has an urgent
5:15:24 > 5:15:30function to attend tonight. On behalf of the backbench committee, I
5:15:30 > 5:15:34intend to lead on this debate. May I first touch on local issues
5:15:34 > 5:15:41affecting my constituency and constituents, and lead onto rather
5:15:41 > 5:15:45more international issues that need to be raised urgently before this
5:15:45 > 5:15:52house goes into recess. First is the long... For those of you who have
5:15:52 > 5:15:56attended this particular debate, I've raced it on a number of
5:15:56 > 5:16:00occasions, the lack of step free access at Stanmore Station and
5:16:00 > 5:16:06Canons Park station. Both of these stations are on the Jubilee line, in
5:16:06 > 5:16:11part of my constituency. They have no way of getting to the roadway
5:16:11 > 5:16:17from station platforms except via steep staircases or alternatively,
5:16:17 > 5:16:21in the case of Stanmore station, through an almost inaccessible car
5:16:21 > 5:16:28park route. There is potential good news on the horizon, that the
5:16:28 > 5:16:31Department for Transport is conducting a consultation right now
5:16:31 > 5:16:35about disabled access outstations although, of course, the matter of
5:16:35 > 5:16:41Jubilee line trains, you would be aware they are matters for the Mayor
5:16:41 > 5:16:46of London. I am assured by the Minister that given the failure of
5:16:46 > 5:16:51successive mayors of London to actually remedy the situation, he is
5:16:51 > 5:16:57prepared to intervene if enough residents from my constituency
5:16:57 > 5:17:03respond to the consultation asking him to do so. Secondly, Madam Deputy
5:17:03 > 5:17:08Speaker, work continues after the adjournment debate that I led on the
5:17:08 > 5:17:14scandal of the sale of public assets at the hive to Barnet football club
5:17:14 > 5:17:21with a succession of freedom of information requests to itemise how
5:17:21 > 5:17:27the scandal arose and indeed to Camden Council, to see how they are
5:17:27 > 5:17:31getting on with claiming the money back which they should have received
5:17:31 > 5:17:36as a result of the sale of this public asset at a bar is the reduced
5:17:36 > 5:17:43rate. I turned to the issues of police funding and activity in
5:17:43 > 5:17:50Harrow. There are concerns in relation to the police station
5:17:50 > 5:17:54closures that the current Mayor of London is intent on introducing,
5:17:54 > 5:18:00which would have dramatic effects on the level of policing and the police
5:18:00 > 5:18:06presence in Harrow and many other boroughs across London. One of the
5:18:06 > 5:18:10key issues, I think is quite clear, that the government has two stump up
5:18:10 > 5:18:16more money for the Metropolitan Police's duties on counterterrorism.
5:18:16 > 5:18:19It needs to review the budget in terms of policing so when we get to
5:18:19 > 5:18:25the budget next year, with policing going forward, we see a three-year
5:18:25 > 5:18:31settlement for police funding and at a requisite funding given that
5:18:31 > 5:18:37London is the capital city. I would like to see some of that £2.3
5:18:37 > 5:18:41billion of unallocated reserves that he has spent on policing when the
5:18:41 > 5:18:46people of London want to see it actually spent. I am working at the
5:18:46 > 5:18:53moment on two proposed free schools in my constituency. One is the
5:18:53 > 5:19:01Mariposa primary school which has been resisted by the local authority
5:19:01 > 5:19:04but has support from parents and many other people who want to see
5:19:04 > 5:19:11this free school brought into operation. The Department for
5:19:11 > 5:19:16Education and the FA have supported this proposal but there is
5:19:16 > 5:19:22opposition at the moment from Harrow Council. I'm supporting a free
5:19:22 > 5:19:26school that will be the first state-sponsored primary school for
5:19:26 > 5:19:31Muslim children in the borough, of Harrow, and that is needed and
5:19:31 > 5:19:38something I have been working on for some time and I am hopeful that we
5:19:38 > 5:19:43will see a site for that and it will be blessed with council approval and
5:19:43 > 5:19:47the Department for Education approval in the immediate future. I
5:19:47 > 5:19:54will give way very briefly.Perhaps I can use this opportunity to place
5:19:54 > 5:20:00on record concerns I have about schools in my own constituency,
5:20:00 > 5:20:04specifically Ilford County high school, one school in desperate need
5:20:04 > 5:20:07of refurbishment. Like him, I want to see a free school application
5:20:07 > 5:20:16successful in the case of the Hindu primary school which wants to
5:20:16 > 5:20:20develop a primary school. I'm grateful for him giving away so I
5:20:20 > 5:20:27could put those issues from my neck of the woods on record.He gives me
5:20:27 > 5:20:30the opportunity of making clear that the first state-sponsored Hindu
5:20:30 > 5:20:39primary school is in my constituency and in the second state-sponsored
5:20:39 > 5:20:42school is in my constituency as well and I wish them well in his
5:20:42 > 5:20:47application. Two other issues I want to raise, which follows on from the
5:20:47 > 5:20:52debate we just had, there is a dramatic increase in the number of
5:20:52 > 5:20:58unauthorised houses in occupation in my borough. It is becoming an issue
5:20:58 > 5:21:03in the area and I think it requires stringent government action and
5:21:03 > 5:21:09local authorities to carry out particular duties. Equally, we still
5:21:09 > 5:21:13have the problem of casual labourers touting for work on honeypot Lane
5:21:13 > 5:21:28outside B&Q. As there will be no police presence on the ground in my
5:21:28 > 5:21:35constituency, the police site within B&Q would be an operation for where
5:21:35 > 5:21:38police can use their equipment and come and go which would disburse the
5:21:38 > 5:21:43labourers on shore. May I mention to or through other things in
5:21:43 > 5:21:49Parliament before I sit down, and allow colleagues to have their
5:21:49 > 5:21:54chance. Firstly, I was very pleased on behalf of the all-party group for
5:21:54 > 5:22:05British Hindus to hold a very well attended
5:22:08 > 5:22:16Diwali celebration on the terrace, the right honourable member for
5:22:16 > 5:22:20Leicester East lead on this particular issue originally and he
5:22:20 > 5:22:26has bequeathed it to me to continue that wonderful progress and I think
5:22:26 > 5:22:30this is something that is pertinent. Can I also draw the members
5:22:30 > 5:22:38attention to the fact that last week, we beat the other place, we
5:22:38 > 5:22:42delivered a stunning blow for the House of Commons and I was pleased
5:22:42 > 5:22:48to captain the team and this year finally we managed to get a second
5:22:48 > 5:22:54actual member of Parliament to join with me on the team, from the SNP,
5:22:54 > 5:22:58and it shows that we are truly becoming an all-party group and I
5:22:58 > 5:23:04invite members from other parties to join with us, so that next time we
5:23:04 > 5:23:11were up home our advantage against the Lord's! I was pleased to welcome
5:23:11 > 5:23:18Almira, who has just launched her triple volume biography, of the
5:23:18 > 5:23:25former president of Azerbaijan. This is a multitudinous page biography in
5:23:25 > 5:23:31three volumes, and I would recommend it as a right riveting good read.
5:23:31 > 5:23:37For anyone who wishes to do so. It does, of course, race one of the
5:23:37 > 5:23:41issues that still remains unresolved, which is the plight of
5:23:41 > 5:23:44the internally displaced persons who continue to suffer as a result of
5:23:44 > 5:23:55the illegal occupation in the dispute between Armenia. I have
5:23:55 > 5:23:59sponsored the early day motion for the role of the Islamic
5:23:59 > 5:24:04Revolutionary guards. In human rights abuses in Iran. It's one of
5:24:04 > 5:24:09those areas that continues to blight relations between the UK and Iran,
5:24:09 > 5:24:16that despite the attempts that we are making, to normalise relations
5:24:16 > 5:24:24with Iran commit human rights abuses continue and go on. Equally, in
5:24:24 > 5:24:28Bangladesh, where we have had the debate on the issue of the plight of
5:24:28 > 5:24:38the Rohingya Muslims but also Rohingya Hindus who have fled in
5:24:38 > 5:24:43fear of their lives and are now in Bangladesh. The reality is the
5:24:43 > 5:24:48government of Bangladesh have decided to introduce a voluntary
5:24:48 > 5:24:52sterilisation programme on Rohingyas in their camps because of the
5:24:52 > 5:24:57explosive birth rate. This has been widely reported in the UK press and
5:24:57 > 5:25:01in the press in the Indian subcontinent. I think there is a
5:25:01 > 5:25:05sinister position over this. What starts as something voluntary can
5:25:05 > 5:25:12very rapidly become compulsory and people who flee in fear of their
5:25:12 > 5:25:16lives could go down this route because they fear they will not get
5:25:16 > 5:25:22help or assistance and it is something I've hope the Foreign &
5:25:22 > 5:25:28Commonwealth Office will take up actively.
5:25:28 > 5:25:33We are celebrating the centenary of the bell for decoration. This is a
5:25:33 > 5:25:40historic decision by the British government, something that I warmly
5:25:40 > 5:25:43applaud and the relationships between the United Kingdom and is
5:25:43 > 5:25:50strapped grow ever stronger. This week we have the visitor of the
5:25:50 > 5:25:54Israeli Prime Minister to this country and it is something worth
5:25:54 > 5:26:00celebrating. We had the centenary celebration by the board of deputies
5:26:00 > 5:26:10of us in the House. I attended that function and it was graced by
5:26:10 > 5:26:13speeches from all political parties, demonstrating the support that is
5:26:13 > 5:26:22across this House by members. When we trying to combat the rise of
5:26:22 > 5:26:27anti-Semitism in this country it is vitally in my view that members from
5:26:27 > 5:26:32all sides and all parties speak out about this scourge. I give way to my
5:26:32 > 5:26:37honourable gentleman.He is being very generous and allowing me to get
5:26:37 > 5:26:44on record. I wasn't able to make the well attended debate in Westminster
5:26:44 > 5:26:46Hall on the declaration by Sir support what he says and was
5:26:46 > 5:26:53delighted to attend the board of deputies meeting. I think this
5:26:53 > 5:26:56country can be proud of the role is played in the creation of the State
5:26:56 > 5:27:03of Israel and we have got to turn our face to the future and make sure
5:27:03 > 5:27:07the future for Israel is a two state solution alongside a secure and
5:27:07 > 5:27:14viable Palestinian state. I thank the honourable gentleman for
5:27:14 > 5:27:17that info mention. I trust he will lean on his party leadership to make
5:27:17 > 5:27:23sure they echo the same views. Occasionally they don't be to do so.
5:27:23 > 5:27:34Can I finally thank you and the other deputy speakers and Mr Speaker
5:27:34 > 5:27:37the service that we have had from the brilliant staff of the House of
5:27:37 > 5:27:45Commons and wish them a short break and can I wish my staff the
5:27:45 > 5:27:50opportunity to get on with work while I won't be here. But also,
5:27:50 > 5:28:00finally, wish one of my former employees who is now working for the
5:28:00 > 5:28:05Confederation of Indian industry is all the best in her new endeavours.
5:28:05 > 5:28:17And congratulate her on raising more than £14,000 towards the memorial
5:28:17 > 5:28:22fund foundation and being nominated for a just giving award. For those
5:28:22 > 5:28:27who don't know, her daughter tragically died of an allergy and
5:28:27 > 5:28:31she has spent quite a lot of time since raising awareness of this
5:28:31 > 5:28:37dreadful problem that confronts parents and children alike. It is a
5:28:37 > 5:28:41tribute to her that she has got on with this and raised awareness of
5:28:41 > 5:28:48the parents don't have to go through what she had to go through.
5:28:48 > 5:28:56Thank you, it is a pleasure...The question is as on the order paper.
5:28:56 > 5:28:59It is a pleasure to follow the honourable member for Harrow East
5:28:59 > 5:29:05and I'd like to thank him and all honourable members who serve in the
5:29:05 > 5:29:09back bench this is committee for ensuring that matters that had
5:29:09 > 5:29:15important to backbenchers of this has added dated on a regular basis.
5:29:15 > 5:29:21I'll be touching on one of them in my contribution. Tomorrow will be
5:29:21 > 5:29:28five months since the general election. I have tried to continue
5:29:28 > 5:29:32to be a left-wing anti-austerity Member of Parliament and he is still
5:29:32 > 5:29:38of the constituents of Glasgow South West. The job of being a Member of
5:29:38 > 5:29:42Parliament is an honour and privilege. It is a job in which we
5:29:42 > 5:29:46should highlight our constituents concerns and to celebrate
5:29:46 > 5:29:51constituency successes. Such as those in early day motion 349
5:29:51 > 5:29:59congratulating all involved in ensuring the government stones and
5:29:59 > 5:30:04is one of the six hidden gems in Scotland. The Gauvin Stones add a
5:30:04 > 5:30:09collection of early medieval stones found in in old Church and they hope
5:30:09 > 5:30:13all honourable members will take you the opportunity to see the stones
5:30:13 > 5:30:21and are more than welcome in go van. Celebrating the work of the coming
5:30:21 > 5:30:27home centre as displayed in early day motion 499 which assists
5:30:27 > 5:30:35veterans with practical advice and provide hundreds of hot meals to
5:30:35 > 5:30:41veterans in Glasgow who need assistance. All indeed to celebrate
5:30:41 > 5:30:45many things which aren't in our constituencies like the 50th
5:30:45 > 5:30:50anniversary of the opening of the sports centre as I mentioned in on
5:30:50 > 5:30:56the day motion 459. Or the awarding of the Glasgow sole tyre award for
5:30:56 > 5:31:01the volunteers of the participation centre as mentioned in early day
5:31:01 > 5:31:06motion 411. One season parliamentarian put it to me this
5:31:06 > 5:31:16debate is nicknamed the moment fast and on that basis... The deputy
5:31:16 > 5:31:21leader Lee shaking his head in disbelief. I raced to wish some
5:31:21 > 5:31:38issues. The Parliamentary question. This can often be when the
5:31:38 > 5:31:42information requested by Parliamentary question has eluded
5:31:42 > 5:31:47them provided in the past and the Freedom of Information. If
5:31:47 > 5:31:52information that has been previously provided under the Freedom of
5:31:52 > 5:31:56Information, it is confusing to deceive Parliamentary questions for
5:31:56 > 5:32:00ministers which say that information can be provided at disproportionate
5:32:00 > 5:32:10cost. If I were to lay down a Parliamentary question asking how
5:32:10 > 5:32:15many questions and with the phrase, disproportionate cost, the answer
5:32:15 > 5:32:22might be it can only be provided at a disproportionate cost. I want to
5:32:22 > 5:32:28raise the issue of a cost of telephone calls to government
5:32:28 > 5:32:30departments. The deputy Leader of the House has heard me many times
5:32:30 > 5:32:36ask this question. As a member of the Department for Work and Pensions
5:32:36 > 5:32:40select committee I was delighted to hear the secretary of state say that
5:32:40 > 5:32:46a telephone call will be free by the end of the year and the deputy
5:32:46 > 5:32:49Leader of the House will be aware I have raised this issue over two
5:32:49 > 5:32:52years. That these other government departments and that includes the
5:32:52 > 5:32:57Home Office Visa Hotline. I would like to ask the government to answer
5:32:57 > 5:33:03how my constituent who has telephoned this Hotline on two
5:33:03 > 5:33:13occasions in the last month has received a phone bill totalling
5:33:13 > 5:33:23£28.77. The whole office hotline size the charge £1 £37 a minute over
5:33:23 > 5:33:28and above Nacho charges. I have been told previously by the Home Office
5:33:28 > 5:33:33in Parliamentary questions I should only apply to non-UK residents. I
5:33:33 > 5:33:39hope the deputy leader powers will raise this with the Home Office as
5:33:39 > 5:33:43to why UK residents are being charged such premium astronomical
5:33:43 > 5:33:46rates to telephone a government department. The second issue I want
5:33:46 > 5:33:53to raise is a general one and that is one on enforcement. Since the
5:33:53 > 5:33:59election in June there has been a focus on staff to take place on
5:33:59 > 5:34:02enforcement issues. Here are some of the figures which have been revealed
5:34:02 > 5:34:12by the government in question. There are three and the 99 -- 399 working
5:34:12 > 5:34:15at the compliance unit was there that 83 vacancies and the government
5:34:15 > 5:34:20has intimated they have no plans to fill those vacancies. It any wonder
5:34:20 > 5:34:25that there are 200,000 workers in the United Kingdom not been paid the
5:34:25 > 5:34:31national minimum wage when there are so many vacancies in HMRC compliance
5:34:31 > 5:34:38units. Turning to HMRC, I asked government ministers yesterday in
5:34:38 > 5:34:46the House as to confirm whether they were 420 HMRC staff in the high net
5:34:46 > 5:34:51worth units which deals with tax avoidance and evasion. Last years
5:34:51 > 5:34:57was revealed that there were 420 and there were 700 in the affluent unit.
5:34:57 > 5:35:02I have been told today by the government that those two sections
5:35:02 > 5:35:06of the HMRC have combined and I was expecting the answer to say today
5:35:06 > 5:35:15that there were 1120 working in this merged units. I am told today bear
5:35:15 > 5:35:211040. That seems to me there has been the reduction in HMRC staff
5:35:21 > 5:35:29dealing with tax avoidance and evasion. Adding that the fact due to
5:35:29 > 5:35:35HMRC office closures the department is losing in 2017 alone, 17,000
5:35:35 > 5:35:43years of staff experience leaving HMRC. A potential deepfreeze surely
5:35:43 > 5:35:53in enforcement. -- decrease. Yesterday I had said the latest
5:35:53 > 5:36:08figures available, 3000 employees in the DPP chasing fraud, but the
5:36:08 > 5:36:13full-time equivalents is 4000. If there are 4045 to sing Social
5:36:13 > 5:36:20Security fraud estimated at 1.2 billion, imagine if HMRC had 4045
5:36:20 > 5:36:25employees chasing tax avoidance and evasion, how much money could come
5:36:25 > 5:36:31in. Last point I wanted raise is that we need to this House is always
5:36:31 > 5:36:34pursuing matters which help the most vulnerable in our society. Today's
5:36:34 > 5:36:40trestle trust report exposes the situation in our communities with
5:36:40 > 5:36:48the roll-out of University credit. Food banks are up 30% in areas where
5:36:48 > 5:36:55university credit is broadcast food banks don't wish to be part of the
5:36:55 > 5:36:59Social Security system. In my constituency in the last year there
5:36:59 > 5:37:06has been a 56% increase in food bank use in my constituency. That is why
5:37:06 > 5:37:11my constituency office there will be a collection points for those who
5:37:11 > 5:37:19wish to put cash of food donations. A real poverty is on the rise, wages
5:37:19 > 5:37:24are low and I hope as our constituency with the lowest
5:37:24 > 5:37:28percentage of public sector workers, the government will give public
5:37:28 > 5:37:35sector workers at a wage rise. It is the job of all of us to hoard into
5:37:35 > 5:37:42account... Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It
5:37:42 > 5:37:46is a pleasure to follow the honourable gentleman who's
5:37:46 > 5:37:50demonstrated both his effective use of Edie Adams but also some issues
5:37:50 > 5:37:54in his constituency although he did say he wouldn't use the debate as a
5:37:54 > 5:38:00moan fast. I am going to use it as a celebration because I want to use it
5:38:00 > 5:38:07to recognise the very powerful and important contributions that three
5:38:07 > 5:38:12exceptional sets of constituents have made in my constituency. These
5:38:12 > 5:38:15are constituents that I have met over the past few years in my role
5:38:15 > 5:38:22as a representative. They have all faced massive adversity in their
5:38:22 > 5:38:25lives but have turned it into something positive for others. I
5:38:25 > 5:38:29hope to give a brief account of their achievements. I want to speak
5:38:29 > 5:38:36about the gentleman called Andy Martin who I met recently. He has
5:38:36 > 5:38:40also considered himself an active and healthy person bought about five
5:38:40 > 5:38:46years ago he was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. Andy has always
5:38:46 > 5:38:53been a keen rugby player, we just about the fact I am an old brick the
5:38:53 > 5:38:59player. Once he was diagnosed he decided he wanted to do something to
5:38:59 > 5:39:04show that the diagnosis of Parkinson's disease wasn't a barrier
5:39:04 > 5:39:10to going out and achieving great things. He asked himself, what might
5:39:10 > 5:39:16he do, what made he do to raise the profile of this disease? He could
5:39:16 > 5:39:20sit in a corner and and hide and hide and disappear but he decided to
5:39:20 > 5:39:24fight and do something absolutely extraordinary. He told me he had
5:39:24 > 5:39:32heard about Ian Botham walking from lands end to John O'Groats. He was
5:39:32 > 5:39:36determined to do that which he did while suffering from Parkinson on
5:39:36 > 5:39:42his own throughout the month of September 2017. This entails walking
5:39:42 > 5:39:49on average 35 miles a day, booking himself a hotel, staying in a hotel,
5:39:49 > 5:39:52getting up early in the morning, cracking on and making another 35
5:39:52 > 5:40:00miles. Because of the gaps between guesthouses, the distance was
5:40:00 > 5:40:04longer. He achieved it in 30 days. He needed a police escort as he went
5:40:04 > 5:40:08over Dartmoor because it was pouring with rain and he was travelling on a
5:40:08 > 5:40:13-year-olds. But he got there and he achieved his objective and for those
5:40:13 > 5:40:19who is who and able-bodied we would give no thought at all to search a
5:40:19 > 5:40:23huge endeavour. It is an absolute major achievement and he has done
5:40:23 > 5:40:28that, he has raised... He has showed he can still get on with his life
5:40:28 > 5:40:34and achieve a great deal. He has already raised £4000 for Parkinson
5:40:34 > 5:40:38is through eight tourist giving page. He is planning to go one
5:40:38 > 5:40:41better next year and is planning to walk from his hometown of rugby to
5:40:41 > 5:40:49Amsterdam. I take my hat off to him.
5:40:49 > 5:40:53He has made a magnificent achievement and I am exceptionally
5:40:53 > 5:40:58proud of that. Another constituent who came to see me very shortly
5:40:58 > 5:41:02after I became an MP is my constituent, Peter Brough fear, with
5:41:02 > 5:41:08his daughter Maria Leicester, has devoted his time to raising
5:41:08 > 5:41:15awareness of brain tumours. That is because of the loss of his son. Pete
5:41:15 > 5:41:22himself, however, has endured his own battle with leukaemia. Between
5:41:22 > 5:41:252002-2012 when his condition stabilised but I first met him when
5:41:25 > 5:41:31he came to see me with his son, Steven, and Steven was diagnosed
5:41:31 > 5:41:39with a brain shimmer in 2007 when he was aged only 19 -- a brain tumour.
5:41:39 > 5:41:44He was aiming to qualify as an RAF pilot. Sadly, Steven lost his battle
5:41:44 > 5:41:50and he passed away in 2014, aged just 26. In the aftermath of
5:41:50 > 5:41:59Steven's death, his sister, Maria, started a petition in 2015 to
5:41:59 > 5:42:05commemorate his death and promote awareness of brain tumours. This is
5:42:05 > 5:42:11the petition that, on the 9th of January 2016, secured 100,000
5:42:11 > 5:42:15signatures that was necessary for it to be considered for debate in
5:42:15 > 5:42:18parliament and this debate took part in Westminster Hall where in excess
5:42:18 > 5:42:25of 30 members participated. It was as full as I have seen Westminster
5:42:25 > 5:42:29Hall being and it led to a Parliamentary enquiry which took
5:42:29 > 5:42:35place when Peter, Maria and his wife, Liz, or attended. As a
5:42:35 > 5:42:38consequence, there is now much greater awareness of the issues of
5:42:38 > 5:42:42brain tumours and the issue of shortage of funding in particular
5:42:42 > 5:42:47with respect to young people has been highlighted there. There was a
5:42:47 > 5:42:53Parliamentary task group established and the report found that the House
5:42:53 > 5:42:58of Commons petitions committee found successive governments have failed
5:42:58 > 5:43:02brain tumour patients and their families for decades. Peter has
5:43:02 > 5:43:07become very involved with the all-party group for brain tumours
5:43:07 > 5:43:13here in Parliament and there is a real move towards positive change.
5:43:13 > 5:43:17We know that brain tumours are the biggest cancer killer in children
5:43:17 > 5:43:22and adults under the age of 40 with less than 20% of those diagnosed
5:43:22 > 5:43:27with a brain tumour surviving beyond five years compared to an average of
5:43:27 > 5:43:3150% across all cancers. The work that Peter and his family have done,
5:43:31 > 5:43:39they have also seen cancer research and best a multi-million pound
5:43:39 > 5:43:42investment at the University of Wolverhampton and the Queen
5:43:42 > 5:43:47Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham which is being called a game changer
5:43:47 > 5:43:53by the chief executive of brain tumour research. It is extraordinary
5:43:53 > 5:43:56how Peter, having suffered from the loss of his son, has been motivated
5:43:56 > 5:44:03to put his time and effort into improving awareness of this disease
5:44:03 > 5:44:09so that others can benefit. I take my hat off to this absolutely
5:44:09 > 5:44:14tremendous job. I also want to draw attention, Madam Deputy Speaker, to
5:44:14 > 5:44:22my constituents George and Juliet, who I first met in April 2012, when
5:44:22 > 5:44:26they came to see me to tell me that they had moved from London to rugby.
5:44:26 > 5:44:31And I was now their MP. Would I get involved in a campaign they started
5:44:31 > 5:44:37to improve road safety, but in doing so, develop a series of awards in
5:44:37 > 5:44:41memory of their daughter who was tragically killed in 1998 when a car
5:44:41 > 5:44:49mounted the pavement as she was walking to a ballet lesson. They
5:44:49 > 5:44:55have the Olivia awards, which began in 1999. One of the key reasons I
5:44:55 > 5:45:02wanted to draw attention to those awards was because those awards are
5:45:02 > 5:45:08being held this evening, in the company of the Commissioner of the
5:45:08 > 5:45:15Metropolitan Police. The very hard work of Metropolitan Police officers
5:45:15 > 5:45:21in investigating road traffic accidents, that is being recognised.
5:45:21 > 5:45:27It isn't just the awards that they have initiated. They fought
5:45:27 > 5:45:30tirelessly for more appropriate punishment for those found guilty of
5:45:30 > 5:45:36causing death by dangerous driving. On both fronts, they have been
5:45:36 > 5:45:40incredibly successful. I would add that I was invited to join the
5:45:40 > 5:45:44judging panel for those who had been put forward for wards and I read and
5:45:44 > 5:45:53heard about accounts of police officers who had to attend the most
5:45:53 > 5:46:00harrowing events. It's interesting for me as a provincial MP to learn
5:46:00 > 5:46:07about policing in the capital, but often people who had to pick up the
5:46:07 > 5:46:12pieces are police officers, in bringing families together. We had a
5:46:12 > 5:46:15lot from family liaison officers. It gave me a window into a world that I
5:46:15 > 5:46:25would not have otherwise seen. They have been campaigning to make the
5:46:25 > 5:46:30penalties for causing death by driving more severe and they have
5:46:30 > 5:46:35done that, there has been a long overdue change in the law. As a
5:46:35 > 5:46:38consequence of their campaigning. They have been assisted by the
5:46:38 > 5:46:45former MP for Enfield, David Burrows. Both George and Juliet
5:46:45 > 5:46:51continue to campaign on road safety and they have set up a Drive Safe,
5:46:51 > 5:46:57Stay Alive initiative for young people to make them aware of driving
5:46:57 > 5:47:01on the roads, celebrating its 12th year on the roads. The initiative is
5:47:01 > 5:47:06predominantly run in London but is making its way out to the provinces
5:47:06 > 5:47:10and the country more widely. I'm delighted that it is coming to
5:47:10 > 5:47:14Warwickshire this coming year. Again, these are two people who I
5:47:14 > 5:47:19have met in my role as an MP. In another walk of life, I may not have
5:47:19 > 5:47:22got to know them but I have been incredibly moved by how much effort
5:47:22 > 5:47:28they have been putting into raising standards in memory of their
5:47:28 > 5:47:33daughter. They have turned something that was a matter of great adversity
5:47:33 > 5:47:39into something for others. There are three sets of constituents there
5:47:39 > 5:47:46that I am immensely proud of, I am immensely proud that they are all in
5:47:46 > 5:47:53Rugby, they put their loss and grief to one side and put their energy
5:47:53 > 5:47:56into bringing forward improvements for others and I'm pleased to have
5:47:56 > 5:48:01had the opportunity this evening to recognise the work of Andy, Peter
5:48:01 > 5:48:05and Maria, of George and Juliet and I hope they all continue in their
5:48:05 > 5:48:13very good work.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will spend the few
5:48:13 > 5:48:16minutes responding to the adjournment debate yesterday on the
5:48:16 > 5:48:2350th anniversary of the abortion act, 1967. Only the ministerial
5:48:23 > 5:48:27response was possible then. Firstly, there was, in that debate, criticism
5:48:27 > 5:48:32of a grant from the money raised by the tampon tax for the charity,
5:48:32 > 5:48:38Life. Since it was founded in 1970, they have helped to house over
5:48:38 > 5:48:4212,000 vulnerable mothers and babies and provided help and nondirective
5:48:42 > 5:48:47counselling to tens of thousands more. Life was described in the
5:48:47 > 5:48:53debate as an anti-choice organisation. Far from being
5:48:53 > 5:48:56anti-choice, Life seeks to give women a genuine choice as to whether
5:48:56 > 5:48:59to keep their baby or not and offered them much-needed support
5:48:59 > 5:49:07should they choose to do so. The grant of £250,000, awarded to Life
5:49:07 > 5:49:12over three years, was described in yesterday's debate as "The largest
5:49:12 > 5:49:20sum from the tampon fund tax". That too is incorrect. It was only about
5:49:20 > 5:49:25the tenth largest. But this sum, so stridently objected to by some in
5:49:25 > 5:49:31the chamber yesterday, is dwarfed by the amount paid to abortion
5:49:31 > 5:49:36providers. These sums are staggering. Over the last decade,
5:49:36 > 5:49:40hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers money has been paid to
5:49:40 > 5:49:45private-sector abortionists. The Times newspaper reported that the
5:49:45 > 5:49:48head of marriage Stopes International, to whom we pay
5:49:48 > 5:49:52millions of pounds to carry out abortions in the UK and overseas,
5:49:52 > 5:50:00received a phenomenal £420,000 in one recent year alone -- marry
5:50:00 > 5:50:05Stopes International. Four times the Prime Minister 's salary. 22 of
5:50:05 > 5:50:10their employees were paid more than £100,000 each. What kind of charity
5:50:10 > 5:50:16is it that pays its staff these sums, and out of public money?
5:50:16 > 5:50:20Surely this is something the Charity commission should be investigating?
5:50:20 > 5:50:26And on the 50th anniversary of the abortion act, can I express my
5:50:26 > 5:50:30concern at reports resulting from the Care Quality Commission's
5:50:30 > 5:50:37investigations into abortion practices at MSI, described by some
5:50:37 > 5:50:42as an industry. Last year, DC QC's report identified a wide range of
5:50:42 > 5:50:53concerns in the way in which abortions are carried out by Marie
5:50:53 > 5:50:57Stopes International, after criticising them for finding dead
5:50:57 > 5:51:02unborn babies in their veins. This is not just about me as one
5:51:02 > 5:51:05individual expressing concern that the government's and regulator doing
5:51:05 > 5:51:14so. So too, we should be concerned about another abortion provider and
5:51:14 > 5:51:20charity, the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, who describe
5:51:20 > 5:51:24themselves as a not-for-profit charity but appears to be involved
5:51:24 > 5:51:30in lobbying to change abortion laws, despite statements made by the last
5:51:30 > 5:51:32government that taxpayers will not be made to foot the bill for
5:51:32 > 5:51:39political campaigning and political lobbying. Matthew Hancock, the then
5:51:39 > 5:51:44Minister for the Cabinet Office said in 2016, in February, that taxpayer
5:51:44 > 5:51:47money should not be wasted on the farce of government lobbying
5:51:47 > 5:51:53government. Yet I recently received this letter from BPAS, which
5:51:53 > 5:51:58includes the following. "I Am writing today to ask that you
5:51:58 > 5:52:01consider defending and extending reproductive rights in the UK during
5:52:01 > 5:52:05the course of this Parliament. All parliamentarians, regardless of
5:52:05 > 5:52:11their personal view on abortion, should support decriminalisation of
5:52:11 > 5:52:15abortion in the UK". This letter asks me, and I presume it has been
5:52:15 > 5:52:21sent to all MPs, to support a campaign. I am placing a copy of it,
5:52:21 > 5:52:29dated the 10th of July 2017, in the library. I understand that the CEO
5:52:29 > 5:52:34of the abortion provider BPAS, is on record of saying at the London
5:52:34 > 5:52:42launch of the campaign We Trust Women, that she said "I want to be
5:52:42 > 5:52:46very clear and blunt, there should be no legal upper limit"
5:52:46 > 5:52:48very clear and blunt, there should be no legal upper limit". This
5:52:48 > 5:52:53campaign on its website says that they campaign to see the 24 week
5:52:53 > 5:52:57abortion time limit removed from criminal law. What steps are being
5:52:57 > 5:53:01taken both by government and the Charity commission to address
5:53:01 > 5:53:04lobbying of this nature that is hugely government funded
5:53:04 > 5:53:11organisation? In yesterday's debate, mention was made to Professor Leslie
5:53:11 > 5:53:19Reagan, for the College of obstetricians, persuading the
5:53:19 > 5:53:27council but not the membership to back decriminalisation in a ballot.
5:53:27 > 5:53:31I understand Professor Reagan has argued that the practice of abortion
5:53:31 > 5:53:35should be no more restricted by the law then the practice of having a
5:53:35 > 5:53:43bunion removed. If so, I find this incomprehensible. In her response to
5:53:43 > 5:53:47the debate last night, the Parliamentary and Secretary of State
5:53:47 > 5:53:50for Health reflected on this when she said, I am sure that everyone in
5:53:50 > 5:53:55this house agrees that no woman undertakes a termination lightly.
5:53:55 > 5:54:01For many, it is extremely traumatic. I agree. And that is why there are
5:54:01 > 5:54:06protections within the current law. Such as, the requirement for two
5:54:06 > 5:54:11doctors to certify approval, and that apart from in exceptional
5:54:11 > 5:54:15circumstances, late stage abortions after 24 weeks should not take
5:54:15 > 5:54:23place. And the public appreciate this. I know that polling figures
5:54:23 > 5:54:25can be questioned, but it's interesting to note that the very
5:54:25 > 5:54:31recent polling from comrades shows that a massive 72% of people believe
5:54:31 > 5:54:34show that far from lifting the practice of abortion outside of the
5:54:34 > 5:54:40current legal parameters in place today, like the requirement of legal
5:54:40 > 5:54:43consent from two doctors, 72% of people believe that they should
5:54:43 > 5:54:48remain in place. And that this message is not a fluke, but is
5:54:48 > 5:54:53underlined from the unlikely source of a recent extensive BBC
5:54:53 > 5:55:01commissioned poll by ICM. It clearly shows respondents supporting two
5:55:01 > 5:55:04doctors continuing to approve an abortion. It showed a clear
5:55:04 > 5:55:09rejection on the grounds of abortion due to disability and showed far
5:55:09 > 5:55:15Laureus -- lower support for other circumstances then may have been
5:55:15 > 5:55:19expected and certainly would be expected of one listened to only the
5:55:19 > 5:55:24campaigning of those pushing for decriminalisation.
5:55:24 > 5:55:31This is not what the British public want. A poll from they show 70% of
5:55:31 > 5:55:36people want the 24 week time limit lowered and not surprisingly,
5:55:36 > 5:55:39bearing in mind medical advancements in faecal viability of the last 50
5:55:39 > 5:55:46years. 91% want a specific ban on the practice of abortion on the
5:55:46 > 5:55:52grounds of a child's sex. In closing, it is important for us to
5:55:52 > 5:56:01remember this year those who campaign for a decriminalisation and
5:56:01 > 5:56:05the safeguards that entail never mentioned something which is a
5:56:05 > 5:56:09modern and human abortion law should consider not only the dignity and
5:56:09 > 5:56:20rights of women but also the dignity and rights of the unborn child.
5:56:20 > 5:56:24With the gravity of the headlines news we have had in recent days
5:56:24 > 5:56:28surrounding abuse at moral questions like tax avoidance and like to take
5:56:28 > 5:56:32this opportunity to highlight this House does recognise these are
5:56:32 > 5:56:35serious matters and changes are needed to ensure due process is in
5:56:35 > 5:56:41place. We need to remind ourselves for our constituents it is the
5:56:41 > 5:56:46day-to-day business of politics that has huge impact on people's lives.
5:56:46 > 5:56:50It is our lives here to make laws and scrutinise the government and to
5:56:50 > 5:56:55make sure the business continues to be done. We must keep sight of what
5:56:55 > 5:57:01our priorities are. In my constituency in one of the
5:57:01 > 5:57:05wealthiest cities of the country, we have some of the worst pockets of
5:57:05 > 5:57:07deprivation were reported in children live in poverty and we have
5:57:07 > 5:57:12some of the lowest higher education attending rates of any constituency
5:57:12 > 5:57:17in the UK. We are faced with some of the biggest challenges facing
5:57:17 > 5:57:23British politics in a very long time. The uncertainty posed by the
5:57:23 > 5:57:28government's handling of Brexit, huge cost to local government
5:57:28 > 5:57:33spending, decline in real wages, a rise in poverty at mass inequality,
5:57:33 > 5:57:38we have people unable to leave hospitals because of a lack of
5:57:38 > 5:57:42social care provision, providers unable to continue and grieving
5:57:42 > 5:57:48families in silent misery to try to support their loved ones. MPs will
5:57:48 > 5:57:54face daily questions on housing and we have at an excellent debate on
5:57:54 > 5:57:58the backbench committee on housing raised by my friend the honourable
5:57:58 > 5:58:05member by Mitcham and Morden. Members bring to those concerns
5:58:05 > 5:58:09about interest rate rises, and economic future for employers and
5:58:09 > 5:58:13the security of decent work that allows people to live in dignity and
5:58:13 > 5:58:17support themselves and their families, these are the daily
5:58:17 > 5:58:20challenges that people are facing and it is for us to focus on these
5:58:20 > 5:58:25issues. That is indeed what colleagues have been doing over
5:58:25 > 5:58:34recent weeks. I would like to pay tribute to the work of the backbench
5:58:34 > 5:58:39business committee and this chair in providing the House with a stream of
5:58:39 > 5:58:42interesting and valuable subjects for debate particularly in the
5:58:42 > 5:58:47absence of government business in the last few weeks. We are resolute
5:58:47 > 5:58:52in attending this chamber to do our job and we will continue to press
5:58:52 > 5:58:56for government for urgent questions, statements, opposition days, we're
5:58:56 > 5:59:02particularly enjoying winning every week on opposition Day motions. We
5:59:02 > 5:59:07will continue to use every method at our disposal in Parliamentary terms
5:59:07 > 5:59:11to ensure this chaotic and crumbling government is held to account for as
5:59:11 > 5:59:16long as it continues to last. The Prime Minister started the Brexit
5:59:16 > 5:59:20debate with a desire to have no running commentary and avoid debate
5:59:20 > 5:59:25in this place but we are clear that as we take back control it is
5:59:25 > 5:59:31controlled to this place that it will be taken and not sent back
5:59:31 > 5:59:34corridor between Downing Street and Whitehall with a couple of trusted
5:59:34 > 5:59:38ministers and an army of civil servants. My colleagues have done
5:59:38 > 5:59:43that today raising issues throughout the day and questioning the
5:59:43 > 5:59:49government ministers. We're now on recess for just three days. Mr
5:59:49 > 5:59:53Speaker, I am not taking a holiday but I would like to express
5:59:53 > 5:59:56gratitude to the Secretary of State International development who has
5:59:56 > 6:00:00managed to make all future family holiday planning for myself a great
6:00:00 > 6:00:05deal easier. In the next few days like many honourable Right
6:00:05 > 6:00:07honourable members, I am looking forward to catching up on
6:00:07 > 6:00:18constituency visit, meeting with NHS leaders, and visiting local schools.
6:00:18 > 6:00:22The annual remembrance service on Sunday in Bristol will allow people
6:00:22 > 6:00:28in Bristol and across our country to pause, to reflect and to remember
6:00:28 > 6:00:34the sacrifice of those who have given their lives so we can carry
6:00:34 > 6:00:39out democratic debate and scrutiny in this place. Indeed, as we leave
6:00:39 > 6:00:43this place for the next three days we will remember those who are
6:00:43 > 6:00:50currently serving to keep us safe. The deputy Leader of the House,
6:00:50 > 6:00:58Michael Ellis.This is my fifth opportunity as deputy leader to
6:00:58 > 6:01:01close this debate and it is a pleasant opportunity in many cases
6:01:01 > 6:01:06to achieve cross-party consensus. I start by referring to my honourable
6:01:06 > 6:01:12friend Harrow East from the backbench business committee and
6:01:12 > 6:01:18they want to thank him first for what he and his committee do and for
6:01:18 > 6:01:21organising this debate. We don't normally have one for the short
6:01:21 > 6:01:28recess. This is a bonus edition. He spoke amongst many other things
6:01:28 > 6:01:32about step three axis on the Jubilee line and I know that is a
6:01:32 > 6:01:39consultation on that. He did mention the fact that the Mayor of London
6:01:39 > 6:01:41would be listening to that consultation and I hope that is
6:01:41 > 6:01:48right. And he clearly has a substantial reserves in his disposal
6:01:48 > 6:01:52come over £2 billion in reserves. The honourable member for Harrow
6:01:52 > 6:01:57East's support for all cross sections of his community really is
6:01:57 > 6:02:04a nationally recognised. Through out all quarters of this chamber. He is
6:02:04 > 6:02:09rightly very well and acknowledged unpopular inside and outside of his
6:02:09 > 6:02:12constituency for the work he does. It isn't just because he plays
6:02:12 > 6:02:16bridge better than those in the other place although he couldn't
6:02:16 > 6:02:22resist mentioning that. It is because of the hard work he actually
6:02:22 > 6:02:26does in his constituency for everyone in his community. In the
6:02:26 > 6:02:29national community too. He mentioned amongst many other things the
6:02:29 > 6:02:41centenary of the Rohingya declaration. The celebrations in
6:02:41 > 6:02:46your House, Mr Speaker, he was right to mention the frightening rise in
6:02:46 > 6:02:50anti-Semitism. -- the Balfour declaration. We would want to fight
6:02:50 > 6:02:57that skirt. Moving on to the honourable gentleman from Glasgow
6:02:57 > 6:03:05South West and he started by saying he didn't want to embark on a moan
6:03:05 > 6:03:10fest. He spoke about Glasgow with pride. He spoke about the govern
6:03:10 > 6:03:13stones and invited everyone to come and see them. I would like to see
6:03:13 > 6:03:25that. He made a sound attractive. Friendly people of Glasgow and it is
6:03:25 > 6:03:29always worth a visit. I can acknowledge that. He's an effective
6:03:29 > 6:03:35member so he has campaigned undoubtedly about the cost of
6:03:35 > 6:03:43hotlines for example, and has spoken many times in this chamber about
6:03:43 > 6:03:48that effectively. He spoke about the work of the Emmy -- HMRC. I want to
6:03:48 > 6:03:53please the workers at the HMRC and those who do a great deal of work in
6:03:53 > 6:04:01order to recover those sons that are due to the Treasury purse. We have
6:04:01 > 6:04:05in fact, as a government, increased resources in that area substantially
6:04:05 > 6:04:14since 2010. And rightly so. Vast sums come to the Treasury now from
6:04:14 > 6:04:19that quota. We want to make sure that all of our tax which is rightly
6:04:19 > 6:04:24due to the Treasury, to fund our valuable public services does come
6:04:24 > 6:04:32in. It is right that the HMRC is properly funded for that purpose. We
6:04:32 > 6:04:40want to continue with the work we have done since 2010 in that regard.
6:04:40 > 6:04:45I think he will find that in fact the sums of money that have been
6:04:45 > 6:04:52coming in on the revenue as far as tax evasion and avoidance is
6:04:52 > 6:04:55concerned has increased since 2010 because of the extra resources that
6:04:55 > 6:05:04have been put there. My honourable friend the member for a bespoke
6:05:04 > 6:05:11about several members of his constituency that spoke about
6:05:11 > 6:05:14several members of his constituency. Can I mention their names again
6:05:14 > 6:05:22because they are hard working. Their service is very much to be
6:05:22 > 6:05:26applauded. He mentioned Andy Martin who has worked as a campaign on
6:05:26 > 6:05:30Parkinson's disease and walked from lands end to John O'Groats in 30
6:05:30 > 6:05:39days. That is a substantial achievement. Something that has
6:05:39 > 6:05:46helped raise the issue of Parkinson's disease which cover
6:05:46 > 6:05:54sadly, in flicks too many custom that inflicts. My friends from rugby
6:05:54 > 6:05:57mentioned Peter Ralph and Maria less than their campaign on brain
6:05:57 > 6:06:02tumours. Sadly, something that afflicts far too many people in our
6:06:02 > 6:06:11society of all ages. He mentioned they lost their son, Stephen, aged
6:06:11 > 6:06:16just 26. It is crucially important we take these opportunities to
6:06:16 > 6:06:24promote awareness of these tragic situations and conditions. They
6:06:24 > 6:06:27raised 100,000 signatures for a petition in a very effective debate
6:06:27 > 6:06:32in Westminster Hall that took place recently. Then my honourable friend
6:06:32 > 6:06:39from rugby mentioned a couple and that work they have burnt on road
6:06:39 > 6:06:43safety. Following the tragic death of their daughter in 1998 when she
6:06:43 > 6:06:51was walking on her way to a ballet class. The Olivier awards at this
6:06:51 > 6:06:57evening in this Palace of Westminster to Speaker and they
6:06:57 > 6:07:00raised the opportunity to thank our police service and particularly
6:07:00 > 6:07:04these awards, police service that officers involved in road traffic
6:07:04 > 6:07:12duties. For the extraordinary work they do in investigating road
6:07:12 > 6:07:17traffic accidents including fatal road traffic accidents. Officers are
6:07:17 > 6:07:24rewarded for exemplary duty and service when either they have as
6:07:24 > 6:07:29detectives investigated the cause of accidents in one particular episode
6:07:29 > 6:07:32all many episodes throughout their career. Those officers aren't all of
6:07:32 > 6:07:39them should be thanked for their service. The commission of the
6:07:39 > 6:07:43constabulary will come to Parliament this evening. I'm sure both sides of
6:07:43 > 6:07:47the House would like to thank the police for their service
6:07:47 > 6:07:52particularly this evening in the Road traffic area. My right
6:07:52 > 6:07:58honourable friend is proud of all of his constituents and so are we. My
6:07:58 > 6:08:05honourable friend for Congleton spoke in the House and she raised a
6:08:05 > 6:08:10matter close to her heart, Mr Speaker. I know how passionate and
6:08:10 > 6:08:13committed she is to her constituents and those in this House will
6:08:13 > 6:08:20recognise that. She holds issues dear to her heart and she has spoken
6:08:20 > 6:08:28on many of these issues before. She has on previous occasions spoken so
6:08:28 > 6:08:31passionately and eloquently about making sure that children have the
6:08:31 > 6:08:36best start in life. I know that is something we all would support. They
6:08:36 > 6:08:43can all agree with that. I commend her for her hard work in her
6:08:43 > 6:08:51constituency in all of these fields and family life. Mr Speaker, the
6:08:51 > 6:08:58shadow deputy leader to whom it is a pleasure to be opposite, mentioned
6:08:58 > 6:09:05some of the issues that her party have mention as concerns, shall we
6:09:05 > 6:09:13say. I would gently point out he turned the economy of this nation is
6:09:13 > 6:09:1815.3% larger than it was seven years ago. The deficit that we inherited
6:09:18 > 6:09:25has been cut by two thirds. We have collected £55 billion in corporation
6:09:25 > 6:09:33tax just last year, which helps pay for our treasured public services.
6:09:33 > 6:09:38Including the billions more for the National Health Service we all value
6:09:38 > 6:09:43and treasures so dearly. Employment is up by some 3 million since 2010
6:09:43 > 6:09:55alone. The unemployment rate is -- has not been lower since 1970 five.
6:09:55 > 6:10:02Income tax has also been cut Mr Speaker by over 13 million, there
6:10:02 > 6:10:05are so many fewer workless households. There are a lot of
6:10:05 > 6:10:10positives to refer to at this juncture before the start of the
6:10:10 > 6:10:16short, very short, adjournment. I want to take this opportunity to you
6:10:16 > 6:10:21Mr Speaker if I made to thank the wonderful and hard-working staff of
6:10:21 > 6:10:26this house. You, Mr Speaker, and not just because you are here in a
6:10:26 > 6:10:31chair, but also because of the work that you do and your deputies of
6:10:31 > 6:10:35course. And the clerks of the house and the doorkeepers and all of the
6:10:35 > 6:10:40staff of this place because they were cool year-round -- they work
6:10:40 > 6:10:46all year round so that we can function as a parliament and a
6:10:46 > 6:10:52legislature in a way that we do. We thank everyone for that. I will give
6:10:52 > 6:11:03a special mention if I may to the Black Rod, I understand he is
6:11:03 > 6:11:08retiring from service after five years of service here in the other
6:11:08 > 6:11:14place. I worked with him on the occasion of Her Majesty the Queen's
6:11:14 > 6:11:17Diamond Jubilee and he will be missed, I know, from the other
6:11:17 > 6:11:30place. On the subject of those to be thanked and congratulated, it is the
6:11:30 > 6:11:3369th birthday of his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, I know that his
6:11:33 > 6:11:40long and extraordinary dedicated service, his philanthropy, his
6:11:40 > 6:11:43exemplary work ethic is an example to us all. I would like to take this
6:11:43 > 6:11:52only opportunity to wish him a happy birthday. Finally, hats I should
6:11:52 > 6:11:58that later this month is the 70th wedding anniversary of the Queen and
6:11:58 > 6:12:09his Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh. I want to be the first to
6:12:09 > 6:12:12send my congratulations and wish for many more happy years together.
6:12:12 > 6:12:19Perhaps I should close by remarking that this coming weekend is
6:12:19 > 6:12:25Remembrance Sunday. This opportunity will no doubt be taken by members on
6:12:25 > 6:12:33both sides of the house to commemorate the fallen of wars both
6:12:33 > 6:12:37a long time ago and far more recently and of conflicts and the
6:12:37 > 6:12:43loss of life of so many over the generations, which have affected so
6:12:43 > 6:12:48many families around this country and the opportunity of commemorating
6:12:48 > 6:12:53their service to this country and to the causes that this country holds
6:12:53 > 6:12:57dear, the causes that all the parties in this household dear,
6:12:57 > 6:13:05freedom, democracy and the rule of law. Those are the important matters
6:13:05 > 6:13:11in our life. Those are the ones that we recognise in Remembrance Sunday.
6:13:11 > 6:13:15Those that have gone before us and given their all to serve their
6:13:15 > 6:13:21country. Thank you. I thank you Debbie Terry leader for what he has
6:13:21 > 6:13:25just said and the gracious way in which he has said it.I will now
6:13:25 > 6:13:35turn in the first instance to petitions. The question is... Acting
6:13:35 > 6:13:42the ayes habit.It is a great pleasure to present this on behalf
6:13:42 > 6:13:49of the local people concerned with the future of the Kingsway golf
6:13:49 > 6:13:54course. It is surprisingly for they have had the opportunity to
6:13:54 > 6:13:56presented to the Conservative council and I would like to give
6:13:56 > 6:14:02particular thanks to Neil who has coordinated this petition so well.
6:14:02 > 6:14:08It has got over 1500 names on it. Julie has a Commons, the residents
6:14:08 > 6:14:12of Scunthorpe County declare the Kingsway golf course which has been
6:14:12 > 6:14:18open since 1971, providing local people with an opportunity to take
6:14:18 > 6:14:22up golf, thousands of people are used because and many people wish to
6:14:22 > 6:14:26retain the golf course on the site for the use of local people. The
6:14:26 > 6:14:32petitioners therefore request that they -- the House of Commons reach
6:14:32 > 6:14:36out to the council and engage with local campaigners to reach, might as
6:14:36 > 6:14:49to retain a golf course on the Kingsway site.
6:14:52 > 6:15:01Petition, Kingsway golf course Scunthorpe.Thank you, Mr Speaker,
6:15:01 > 6:15:07it gives me no pleasure to have two present this petition which is a
6:15:07 > 6:15:10petition of local residents in North East Hampshire against changes to
6:15:10 > 6:15:16the south-west railway service particularly to much loved and well
6:15:16 > 6:15:19used stations. All of our stations should have services protected under
6:15:19 > 6:15:23petition reads, to the honourable Commons of great Britain and
6:15:23 > 6:15:28Northern Ireland impel... Parliament assembled, the humble petition of
6:15:28 > 6:15:33the people of these Hampshire show that urgent action must be taken
6:15:33 > 6:15:36concerning the south-western Railway and the change their timetable
6:15:36 > 6:15:42coming into force in December 2018. Further that this line is
6:15:42 > 6:15:45particularly highly valued, especially the fleet, and wind field
6:15:45 > 6:15:49stations. Any morning peak services are removed, this will be
6:15:49 > 6:15:52detrimental to commuters and is clearly not in the best interests of
6:15:52 > 6:15:58the community. Further, that these proposals need not and must not be
6:15:58 > 6:16:04in fermented as demonstrated by the ability to provide good hook and
6:16:04 > 6:16:10winch services. We pray that you take all possible steps to urge
6:16:10 > 6:16:16south-western Railway to reconsider the decision to make the proposed
6:16:16 > 6:16:19changes to the timetable due to come into force on December 2018 and to
6:16:19 > 6:16:24make sure that the train timetable considers the economic, social and
6:16:24 > 6:16:27familial imprecations to commuters across North East Hampshire and the
6:16:27 > 6:16:39petitioners will ever pray, etc.
6:16:41 > 6:16:47Petition, south-western Railway. I rise to present a petition on the
6:16:47 > 6:16:50half of my constituents who are deeply concerned about the
6:16:50 > 6:16:54withdrawal of the number 67 bus service which allowed them to travel
6:16:54 > 6:16:59from Brixton to Torbay Hospital in the Willows. I would like to thank
6:16:59 > 6:17:05match forester who has collected over 1200 signatures, demonstrated
6:17:05 > 6:17:09the strength of feeling about the value of the service, this petition
6:17:09 > 6:17:16declares that the cancellation of the number 67 bus service between
6:17:16 > 6:17:20Brixton and the Willows, will have a detrimental impact on local
6:17:20 > 6:17:24residents, in particular elderly residents. The petition has
6:17:24 > 6:17:28therefore requested that the House of Commons urges Torbay Council to
6:17:28 > 6:17:32commit to providing a similar service to the previous number 67
6:17:32 > 6:17:43service for the benefit of local residents as soon as. -- as soon as
6:17:43 > 6:17:45possible.
6:17:50 > 6:18:00Petition number 67 bus service in Torbay.Thank you. Point of order,
6:18:00 > 6:18:07sir. I have given you prior and notice of this. The outcome of what
6:18:07 > 6:18:12of last Wednesday's vote and what is expected of the Government on the
6:18:12 > 6:18:15outcome of this vote. There has been a mandate to deliver an analysis
6:18:15 > 6:18:18papers to the Brexit select committee is directed in motion.
6:18:18 > 6:18:24They have too, as the motion clearly intends, do so with the
6:18:24 > 6:18:26qualification, reduction or equivocation and there is also an
6:18:26 > 6:18:28expectation that the Government complies with the will of the house
6:18:28 > 6:18:33is a matter of urgency. Today, in response to the urgent question, the
6:18:33 > 6:18:36minister response indicated that no such commitment will be made. The
6:18:36 > 6:18:40house was told by the honourable member for Wycombe that the house
6:18:40 > 6:18:44expects a publication of papers within three weeks. This appeared to
6:18:44 > 6:18:53me to be an intention, not a binding promise a guarantee. They could be
6:18:53 > 6:18:56partial and qualified. Even went so far as to suggest that these
6:18:56 > 6:18:59neighbours didn't even exist. Mr Speaker, you have said that a
6:18:59 > 6:19:03failure to comply fully with this would mean that the Government would
6:19:03 > 6:19:09be in contempt of this house. I have written to you regarding a complaint
6:19:09 > 6:19:13that this Government has held this housing contempt for refusing to
6:19:13 > 6:19:17fully comply with a binding vote of this house. Mr Speaker it is within
6:19:17 > 6:19:22your gift how you choose to reply to this letter and indicate whether you
6:19:22 > 6:19:27are prepared to see any progress regressed. On page 273, it says that
6:19:27 > 6:19:31you make a lab president so a motion may be tabled, formerly calling
6:19:31 > 6:19:39attention to the matter and proposing... Making other
6:19:39 > 6:19:42appropriate propositions. Mr Speaker, I am sure you're aware of
6:19:42 > 6:19:47the significance of such a process and I would be grateful for you to
6:19:47 > 6:19:51give me any response guidance on this matter.Thank you. They queue
6:19:51 > 6:19:58for your advance notice. He is right in my assessment that I kid
6:19:58 > 6:20:04assessment that the correct way to proceed is in writing to the
6:20:04 > 6:20:07Speaker. The honourable gentleman has just informed the house that he
6:20:07 > 6:20:10has written to me, he will understand that I have not yet seen
6:20:10 > 6:20:19his letter. I can assure him that I will study his letter most
6:20:19 > 6:20:25carefully. He will also appreciate that I will not and cannot be
6:20:25 > 6:20:32expected to entertain and, to be fair, he has not really asked me to
6:20:32 > 6:20:36entertain, hypothetical scenarios. As to what might follow. I will
6:20:36 > 6:20:43consider his letter carefully and when I have formed a view about it,
6:20:43 > 6:20:49and any allegation that it contains, I will revert in all probability,
6:20:49 > 6:20:54not only to the honourable gentleman, but as necessary to the
6:20:54 > 6:20:59house. Given what I've said, I think it is reasonable for people to
6:20:59 > 6:21:04deduce that there cannot be further legitimate points of order on this
6:21:04 > 6:21:14matter today. Thank you. We come now to the adjournment.I beg to move
6:21:14 > 6:21:18that this house adjourns.The question is that this house
6:21:18 > 6:21:26adjourns.Thank you Mr Speaker for selecting this issue for debate and
6:21:26 > 6:21:30thank you for the Minister and my honourable friends for being here
6:21:30 > 6:21:36tonight. The last few years have seen a mountain of leaked documents,
6:21:36 > 6:21:42the Panama papers, the other papers, the Luxembourg leaks and the
6:21:42 > 6:21:47so-called Russian leaks. Less than three weeks ago, I initiated an
6:21:47 > 6:21:52adjournment debate based on leaked documents on Azerbaijan and the
6:21:52 > 6:21:58money-laundering activities of the Azerbaijan ruling elite. All these
6:21:58 > 6:22:08important leaks involve substantial disclosures, aggressive tax
6:22:08 > 6:22:11avoidance, evasion, money-laundering, they revealed how
6:22:11 > 6:22:15the proceeds of organised crime have been used and how powerful global
6:22:15 > 6:22:25corporations and the nefarious, unethical and criminal financial
6:22:25 > 6:22:31ways to hide their money and avoid taxes. On Sunday night, we started
6:22:31 > 6:22:36to hear about further outrageous wrongdoings from the Paradise
6:22:36 > 6:22:40papers. These leaked documents reveal documents that passed through
6:22:40 > 6:22:47the global law firm Appleby, mostly operating out of our own Crown
6:22:47 > 6:22:51dependencies and overseas Territories. They reveal a
6:22:51 > 6:22:57completely toxic mixture of every imaginable wrongdoing involving
6:22:57 > 6:23:03money. Wrongdoing on an industrial scale, implicating household names,
6:23:03 > 6:23:08revered institutions, global corporations and international
6:23:08 > 6:23:13criminals. Wrongdoing that I am afraid is not just ignored or
6:23:13 > 6:23:22condoned by the UK Government and regulatory audits, but wrongdoing
6:23:22 > 6:23:27that is only made possible by our rules and practices. We are not just
6:23:27 > 6:23:34complicit in what happens, we are central to its success. Our country,
6:23:34 > 6:23:39our tax havens, our corporate structures have become the place of
6:23:39 > 6:23:42choice for every ne'er-do-well who wants to hide their wealth and avoid
6:23:42 > 6:23:50tax. If our Government is serious about guaranteeing a fairer society
6:23:50 > 6:23:56and if they mean what they say about an economy that works for everyone,
6:23:56 > 6:24:01they will really have two tackle tax avoidance and tax evasion. Not just
6:24:01 > 6:24:07claim progress by tinkering at the edges. They must start by clamping
6:24:07 > 6:24:11down on our own tax havens. The British Overseas Territories and
6:24:11 > 6:24:16Crown dependencies, this doesn't need another enquiry, it needs
6:24:16 > 6:24:23action now. I want to pay tribute to all the journalists in 67 countries
6:24:23 > 6:24:28who worked through the international consortium of investigative
6:24:28 > 6:24:31journalists to uncover these wicked practices and opened them to public
6:24:31 > 6:24:37gaze and scrutiny. In particular, I congratulate the team at the
6:24:37 > 6:24:38Guardian...
6:24:44 > 6:24:52The House now do adjourned. In particular, I congratulate the
6:24:52 > 6:24:57team at the Guardian at panorama for their brilliant investigative work
6:24:57 > 6:25:00in making sense of the tens of millions of documents and fires that
6:25:00 > 6:25:05the leaks contained. This is journalism at its best and I salute
6:25:05 > 6:25:11all of them. I also want to salute the brave whistle-blower who post or
6:25:11 > 6:25:18herself at enormous risk bypassing the papers to the media. Every time
6:25:18 > 6:25:23this happens the accused attack the accusers, the whistle-blowers, and
6:25:23 > 6:25:29try to undermine their credibility. In this case Lord Ashcroft's PA
6:25:29 > 6:25:34agent told the Guardian that Lord Ashcroft would not comment because,
6:25:34 > 6:25:39you are referring to the stolen data. The whistle-blower obtained
6:25:39 > 6:25:45the information in the public interest. They did not steal it for
6:25:45 > 6:25:50private gain. Unlike Lord Ashcroft, the whistle-blower was not driven by
6:25:50 > 6:25:55selfish greed but by public spirited selfless bravery. That should be
6:25:55 > 6:26:01commended not prevailed. In the next few days we will see even more data
6:26:01 > 6:26:08about famous rich people, about a greedily global corporations and
6:26:08 > 6:26:11about advisers, lawyers, accountants, bankers and others,
6:26:11 > 6:26:15clever people giving advice to reach people on how best to hide their
6:26:15 > 6:26:23money. All are duty of immoral, if not illegal, behaviour. It must be
6:26:23 > 6:26:27completely obvious to us all that anybody who is found to have used
6:26:27 > 6:26:32artificial financial structures offshore simply to hide their wealth
6:26:32 > 6:26:37and avoid tax should not be awarded with an honour from the Queen. Lewis
6:26:37 > 6:26:44Hamilton should not receive a knighthood. Anybody in the political
6:26:44 > 6:26:47system who has deliberately used offshore accounts in tax havens to
6:26:47 > 6:26:51hide their money and to avoid paying their fair contribution to the
6:26:51 > 6:26:57common purse for the common good should not in my view hold public
6:26:57 > 6:27:03office. Much attention over the last 48 hours as been focused on the
6:27:03 > 6:27:10Royal family. The funds held by the Duchy of Lancaster and now to be the
6:27:10 > 6:27:14Duchy of Cornwall. The Royal family command admiration, respect and love
6:27:14 > 6:27:20across all the world, I am in no doubt the Queen was as appalled as
6:27:20 > 6:27:24the rest of us are discovering how many had been invested offshore in
6:27:24 > 6:27:30Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. Some of her money was invested through
6:27:30 > 6:27:35the private equity firm vision capital in unethical companies like
6:27:35 > 6:27:40Bright House. Bright eyes and lips of poor people who have no other
6:27:40 > 6:27:43option than to rent essentially household goods from them. They can
6:27:43 > 6:27:55end up paying £1092 for a washing machine that retailers a £300.
6:27:55 > 6:28:01Bright House has been forced to pay back to nearly a quarter of a
6:28:01 > 6:28:06million customers. The Queen Trust many invested offshore in unethical
6:28:06 > 6:28:11business with proper Taz Bellusci of the Duchy of Lancaster 's affairs,
6:28:11 > 6:28:16this would never have happened. If Treasury had properly monitored the
6:28:16 > 6:28:19financial affairs of the Duchy of the Queen 's reputation would not
6:28:19 > 6:28:24have been tarnished. Can the Minister please explain why we can't
6:28:24 > 6:28:28have transparency at the affairs of the Duchy of Lancaster and why be
6:28:28 > 6:28:32totally failed to monitor the Duchy properly and sanctioned investments
6:28:32 > 6:28:40in offshore jurisdiction? The fact the Queen financial advisers saw
6:28:40 > 6:28:52nothing wrong in investing offshore shows how entrenched they -- how
6:28:52 > 6:28:57acceptable investing many offshore has become. It is plain wrong and we
6:28:57 > 6:29:02need to stop it. I want to focus the time they have issues that have not
6:29:02 > 6:29:07yet received a public scrutiny attention they deserve. The Paradise
6:29:07 > 6:29:12papers contain details of the tax scam that operate out of the Isle of
6:29:12 > 6:29:16Man but was facilitated by the law firm Appleby with advice from one of
6:29:16 > 6:29:23the big four accountants. The lethal, tale of accountants,
6:29:23 > 6:29:29cocktail and the super-rich. The super-rich by private jets. These
6:29:29 > 6:29:34planes can cost anything up to 70 million. Lewis Hamilton spent 16.5
6:29:34 > 6:29:41million on his jet. To avoid VAT on the purchase the rich by their
6:29:41 > 6:29:46private jets through companies they set up in tax havens. Lewis Hamilton
6:29:46 > 6:29:52use the British Virgin Islands and avoided VAT. Owners want to fly
6:29:52 > 6:29:58their planes in Europe and for that they need a certificate issued by a
6:29:58 > 6:30:01European jurisdiction showing they have accounted for VAT and other any
6:30:01 > 6:30:11taxes. Jurisdiction in the Isle of Man boasts the Queen as Lord of man.
6:30:11 > 6:30:19The advisers create a company in the Isle of Man controlled by the
6:30:19 > 6:30:25private jet owner that releases the Jets, and the company and the Isle
6:30:25 > 6:30:28of Man government issues a VAT refund on the grounds that the jet
6:30:28 > 6:30:32is part of the leasing business although the only customer is one
6:30:32 > 6:30:38Lewis Hamilton. The Isle of Man company then releases the jet to
6:30:38 > 6:30:42another offshore company in Guernsey that is also controlled by Lewis
6:30:42 > 6:30:50Hamilton. This carousel of leasing companies all controlled by Lewis
6:30:50 > 6:30:57Hamilton simply exists to enable Lewis Hamilton to avoid a £3.5
6:30:57 > 6:31:00million VAT bill. The plane has only been released in Lewis Hamilton and
6:31:00 > 6:31:06he has never returned to the Isle of Man on his jet. Lewis Hamilton may
6:31:06 > 6:31:10wrap himself in the union Jack is Formula 1 races but he should hold
6:31:10 > 6:31:18his head in shame on his deliberate refusal to pay the British taxes he
6:31:18 > 6:31:25showed. In the tennis is the Isle of Man launched aircraft registry they
6:31:25 > 6:31:31have left hundreds of private set overs of millions of pounds in VAT
6:31:31 > 6:31:38bills, they have never turned down a request for full VAT refund. Even if
6:31:38 > 6:31:42some of the VAT exemption was legitimate in that the planes were
6:31:42 > 6:31:47used for some commercial rather than personal purposes, a huge chunk of
6:31:47 > 6:31:50that money should have been paid to the Exchequer. Can the Minister
6:31:50 > 6:31:57Tellez tonight why HMRC about that happening? -- can the Minister tell
6:31:57 > 6:32:07us tonight.
6:32:08 > 6:32:12Either way, many we urgently need for our hospitals and schools is not
6:32:12 > 6:32:23being collected and the rich jetsetters simply get richer. With
6:32:23 > 6:32:2780,000 inhabitants who enjoy the highest living standards in the UK,
6:32:27 > 6:32:33the Isle of Man government issued a statement saying that, they have
6:32:33 > 6:32:36found no evidence of wrongdoing or reason to believe that our customs
6:32:36 > 6:32:43and excise has been involved in the mistaken defunding of VAT. In my
6:32:43 > 6:32:50view this is simply not true. The details contained in the Paradise
6:32:50 > 6:32:55papers demonstrate clearly that they knowingly and purposefully and the
6:32:55 > 6:33:04interpretation of the rules to help the super-rich avoid VAT. The Isle
6:33:04 > 6:33:15of Man is a tax haven. Since 2007 the Isle of Man has had zero
6:33:15 > 6:33:22corporate tax for businesses. Apple had the Isle of Man on the list of
6:33:22 > 6:33:26tax havens for their beauty contest as they look for a new country to
6:33:26 > 6:33:32House their money. By the way, for Apple to piously declared they are
6:33:32 > 6:33:37not paying less tax in Jersey that they were in Ireland, as evidence of
6:33:37 > 6:33:42the good behaviour beggars belief. They are not paying less tax because
6:33:42 > 6:33:48they weren't paying much tax before. We want them to pay more tax, fair
6:33:48 > 6:33:52tax, proper tax on the profits they make from their business outside the
6:33:52 > 6:34:00USA. Back to the Isle of Man, how one might ask how this small country
6:34:00 > 6:34:06afford to raise enough in taxes to rent is public services without a
6:34:06 > 6:34:10contribution from corporation tax? The answer is simple, we subsidise
6:34:10 > 6:34:16them. It is our tax money that they use to steps to tutor tax income
6:34:16 > 6:34:21they could receive from charging businesses properly. It is our many
6:34:21 > 6:34:28that is enabling them to be a tax haven. Our government doesn't just
6:34:28 > 6:34:31tolerate tax havens that they are using our tax money to enable the
6:34:31 > 6:34:38Isle of Man to operate as a tax haven. As with all these things, the
6:34:38 > 6:34:41government refuses to be transparent. Let me try to unravel
6:34:41 > 6:34:48this. Because we and the Isle of Man share a border we also share what is
6:34:48 > 6:34:54called a common purse for VAT and of import duties. Or VAT and import
6:34:54 > 6:35:00duties collected by the Isle of Man are passed to HMRC and the Exchequer
6:35:00 > 6:35:03gives the Isle of Man a sum of money based on a formula that is supposed
6:35:03 > 6:35:09to reflect how much VAT is being generated from the economic activity
6:35:09 > 6:35:16that takes place on the Isle of Man. In 2016 the then Chief Secretary of
6:35:16 > 6:35:23the Treasury renegotiated the formula and agreed a generous annual
6:35:23 > 6:35:27uplift way above the level of inflation. We give the Isle of Man
6:35:27 > 6:35:33over £300 million a year, just under one third of the entire public
6:35:33 > 6:35:39expenditure. That figure is set right to free and 40 million by 20
6:35:39 > 6:35:4519. This summer appears to have nothing to do with what is happening
6:35:45 > 6:35:49in the Isle of Man's real economy where employment is down and the
6:35:49 > 6:35:55population is declining. It has everything to do with what seems to
6:35:55 > 6:36:02be a deliberate policy intent by our government to subsidise the Isle of
6:36:02 > 6:36:08Man and verse promote and support it as a tax haven. Treasury has refused
6:36:08 > 6:36:11to publish the details of the formula on which the payment is
6:36:11 > 6:36:16based and I would ask the minister today to release those details so
6:36:16 > 6:36:23that we can see how that sum was determined. What this shows is that
6:36:23 > 6:36:28we are not innocent bystanders who simply put up with the utterly
6:36:28 > 6:36:30unacceptable activities in tax havens that have been exposed in the
6:36:30 > 6:36:36Paradise papers, which actively support and enable tax havens to
6:36:36 > 6:36:42function and exist. Without our subsidy the Isle of Man could not
6:36:42 > 6:36:45afford to have a zero rate of corporation tax, it could not
6:36:45 > 6:36:51function as a tax haven. The Isle of Man is well and truly a UK tax
6:36:51 > 6:36:59haven. So far from being at the head of the fight against tax avoidance,
6:36:59 > 6:37:05evasion and money laundering, we are at the heart of the evil conspiracy
6:37:05 > 6:37:09involving advisers, the super-rich, global corporations and governments.
6:37:09 > 6:37:14We're aiding and abetting the very few, very wealthiest and most
6:37:14 > 6:37:17powerful in our society to keep their wealth seekers and avoid
6:37:17 > 6:37:22paying their fair share of tax. The minister will try to claim his
6:37:22 > 6:37:26government has achieved a lot in tackling avoidance and evasion, he
6:37:26 > 6:37:31may try to say how much better his government has been in the previous
6:37:31 > 6:37:33Labour government. I have never defended the record of the Labour
6:37:33 > 6:37:38government in this area. I say to him, his government 's's record is
6:37:38 > 6:37:47also shameful. It is what is left undone that really matters. I urge
6:37:47 > 6:37:53the Minister to tear down the shroud of secrecy and force all our tax
6:37:53 > 6:37:57havens to have public registers of beneficial ownership. The simple ask
6:37:57 > 6:38:05for better transparency on who owns what and where is utterly central to
6:38:05 > 6:38:10our desire to expose and hands stamped on avoidance. They ask him
6:38:10 > 6:38:14to toughen up our regulatory bodies and to hound the owners, the Mrs
6:38:14 > 6:38:18Brown 's boys and the Lewis Hamilton 's of this world through the courts
6:38:18 > 6:38:24to make sure they pay their property was. I asking to introduce
6:38:24 > 6:38:29legislation that will ensure that the advisers who dream up these tax
6:38:29 > 6:38:33avoidance wheezes are held to account for what they do and they're
6:38:33 > 6:38:40held responsible and polished for schemes are invent are found to be
6:38:40 > 6:38:46unlawful. These three actions would go a long way to ensuring a
6:38:46 > 6:38:49responsible tax system that is fair to us all. I look forward to his
6:38:49 > 6:38:58response.I called the financial Secretary to reply to the debate.
6:38:58 > 6:39:03Can I begin by congratulating the Right honourable lady, the member
6:39:03 > 6:39:07for Barking, for securing this very important debate and for raising the
6:39:07 > 6:39:12important issues she has covered in her speech. She has been a
6:39:12 > 6:39:17determined campaign over many years on these matters especially as the
6:39:17 > 6:39:23chair of the Public Accounts Committee. I am grateful for the
6:39:23 > 6:39:27opportunity to speak in this debate, to be given the chance to discuss
6:39:27 > 6:39:32the government approach to tackling tax avoidance and evasion. I will
6:39:32 > 6:39:35respond to as many of the points as the right honourable lady has raised
6:39:35 > 6:39:39as I can.
6:39:39 > 6:39:44The Government takes all issues of avoidance and the bacon is very
6:39:44 > 6:39:54serious. If any new allegations come to light, I will deal with them. --
6:39:54 > 6:40:03avoidance and evasion. We have secured 160 billion per in
6:40:03 > 6:40:09additional tax revenues at a consequence. More on that later.
6:40:09 > 6:40:14Now, I will respond to the points raised by the Right Honourable Lady,
6:40:14 > 6:40:18the Right Honourable Lady has raised the allegations regarding aircraft
6:40:18 > 6:40:24importation into the Isle of Man which were also covered in a BBC's
6:40:24 > 6:40:27panorama programme over the last two days. I should first note that the
6:40:27 > 6:40:35Isle of Man, like all Crown dependencies, RA separate democratic
6:40:35 > 6:40:42element responsible for their own fiscal matters. However, it has
6:40:42 > 6:40:48agreed to follow very similar VAT rules as the United Kingdom. Whilst
6:40:48 > 6:40:54the Isle of Man must apply similar VAT rules to the UK, tackling
6:40:54 > 6:40:58avoidance and evasion is the responsibility of their tax
6:40:58 > 6:41:02authorities. When required, the UK Government is always happy to
6:41:02 > 6:41:06provide advice and technical assistance to them to counter
6:41:06 > 6:41:10evasion and avoidance. I welcome the announcement from the Isle of Man
6:41:10 > 6:41:16Government that it is conducting a review into its procedures around
6:41:16 > 6:41:23VAT and the importation of aircraft. I also welcomed the income to carry
6:41:23 > 6:41:27out an assessment of these procedures and I can say that
6:41:27 > 6:41:31officials have been in the Isle of Man today engaged in that important
6:41:31 > 6:41:36process. This is a responsible and appropriate approach to addressing
6:41:36 > 6:41:39these allegations and correcting any potential noncompliance. The UK
6:41:39 > 6:41:43Government will continue to work with the Isle of Man to help address
6:41:43 > 6:41:48these issues and take steps to put an end to any evasion avoidance.
6:41:48 > 6:41:51Whether any problems of tax avoidance and evasion, these should
6:41:51 > 6:41:55be dealt with by fixing these issues together and not by ending our
6:41:55 > 6:42:01cooperation with them. I may turn now to some of the very specific
6:42:01 > 6:42:05point is that the Right Honourable Lady Reyes, she referred to the
6:42:05 > 6:42:10plethora of leaks that there have been over the years, and she
6:42:10 > 6:42:14congratulated the Guardian amongst others on their part in ensuring the
6:42:14 > 6:42:19leaks and the dissemination of the information coming to light over the
6:42:19 > 6:42:25last... I will in a moment, there is an important point. H MRC are
6:42:25 > 6:42:28determined to follow up anything from whatever quarter to make sure
6:42:28 > 6:42:34we come down on tax evasion. Yet, despite repeated requests, the
6:42:34 > 6:42:39Guardian newspaper and the international consortium of
6:42:39 > 6:42:41international journalists have refused to hand over that
6:42:41 > 6:42:46information. If the Right Honourable Lady is able to assist as well as to
6:42:46 > 6:42:48congratulate those individuals concerned that would be of great
6:42:48 > 6:42:51assistance to both the Government and to her endeavours, I think. I
6:42:51 > 6:42:55give way to the honourable member. I'm grateful for the Minister giving
6:42:55 > 6:43:03way. Does he not agree with me that last night when the Cayman Islands
6:43:03 > 6:43:07chairman of the stock exchange said that journalists should be is locked
6:43:07 > 6:43:12up and imprisoned, does he not agree that was RA just?I am not privy or
6:43:12 > 6:43:19aware of those suggested comments, but I can certainly say that from my
6:43:19 > 6:43:23perspective and the Government was my perspective, we are not in the
6:43:23 > 6:43:27business of suggesting or advocating for the locking up of any
6:43:27 > 6:43:30journalists. The second point the Right Honourable Lady raised was
6:43:30 > 6:43:34that she made the point that we were tinkering at the edges, I think she
6:43:34 > 6:43:41made. -- she said. Nothing could be further from the fact, since 2010,
6:43:41 > 6:43:47we have brought in 160 billion, as I said, 2.8 billion of that is in
6:43:47 > 6:43:52respect of clamping down of those who are looking to hide wealth and
6:43:52 > 6:43:58overseas jurisdictions. We have the lowest tax rate, sorry, tax gaps, in
6:43:58 > 6:44:03the world. The lowest in our history. As she perhaps alluded to
6:44:03 > 6:44:08in her remarks, she will probably know that if we were today to have
6:44:08 > 6:44:13the level of tax gap that we saw under the last Labour Government, we
6:44:13 > 6:44:16would be around £45 billion worse off as a consequence. That is
6:44:16 > 6:44:19important money that we need in our exchequer for the purpose of
6:44:19 > 6:44:25employing doctors, nurses, keeping hospitals goings, teachers, police
6:44:25 > 6:44:32force. All those public services that are hallmark of civilised
6:44:32 > 6:44:38society. The Right Honourable Lady referred to the Duchy of Lancaster
6:44:38 > 6:44:41and transparency, they do publish their accounts. They lay them before
6:44:41 > 6:44:46this house, in fact. There has been no suggestion that I am aware of
6:44:46 > 6:44:54that any of the Duchy have been improper or illegal, of course, the
6:44:54 > 6:45:00Queen voluntarily pays tax on all the earnings from the Duchy of
6:45:00 > 6:45:06Lancaster. Bright house specifically was referred to, she is quite
6:45:06 > 6:45:13correct in her assertions that they have had dealings with the X... The
6:45:13 > 6:45:20dealings that she referred. Those investments were primarily made in
6:45:20 > 6:45:242005, under the last Labour Government, as it happens, rather
6:45:24 > 6:45:28than under this Government and I believe the amount invested is
6:45:28 > 6:45:35something in the order of £3000 in total. The Right Honourable Lady
6:45:35 > 6:45:42asks why they H MRC allowed the Isle of Man situation to happen in
6:45:42 > 6:45:46respect of the 80 and aircraft. The first point I will make his lets see
6:45:46 > 6:45:50what the investigation yields, rather than jumping to a series of
6:45:50 > 6:45:58conclusions based on currently, a couple of television programmes.
6:45:58 > 6:46:04That is something that we will get to the bottom of an due course. The
6:46:04 > 6:46:09Right Honourable Lady also asked about the sharing agreement in place
6:46:09 > 6:46:14between the Isle of Man and the United Kingdom. In respect of VAT
6:46:14 > 6:46:17and she was quite right that there are ongoing discussions at the
6:46:17 > 6:46:21moment for a new formula. She referred to an automatic uplift in
6:46:21 > 6:46:26the Isle of Man's share of that formula, which is actually at 4.5%
6:46:26 > 6:46:30uplift, suggested that that might be overly generous. It will not be in
6:46:30 > 6:46:33the long run because once all the surveys and research have been
6:46:33 > 6:46:36carried out, if it is more generous than it should have been, there will
6:46:36 > 6:46:41be a claw-back mechanism within the arrangement. In terms of
6:46:41 > 6:46:45transparency, was that is concluded, it will be available within the
6:46:45 > 6:46:49public domain. There is 1.I would make about the Right Honourable
6:46:49 > 6:46:55Lady's assertions that this is a one-way substitute from the United
6:46:55 > 6:46:59Kingdom to the Isle of Man. There have been times where the reverse
6:46:59 > 6:47:02has been the case. That has been transferred from the Isle of Man to
6:47:02 > 6:47:06the United Kingdom which we and her constituents have benefited. The
6:47:06 > 6:47:14Right Honourable Lady also made a call to tackle avoidance schemes,
6:47:14 > 6:47:24enable avoidance schemes, -- not enable. It is not the most
6:47:24 > 6:47:28entertaining of bills, it ran to about 725 pages and was indeed
6:47:28 > 6:47:34highly technical, but within it there were provisions for ensuring
6:47:34 > 6:47:42that those who enable tax avoidance will now be subject to sanction and
6:47:42 > 6:47:48indeed penalty. On that note, Mr Speaker, I hope that I have covered
6:47:48 > 6:47:54the majority of the point is that the Right Honourable Lady race. I
6:47:54 > 6:48:01recognise her sterling work that -- the Right Honourable Lady raised. I
6:48:01 > 6:48:06hope I can conclude by wishing you a... I will give way. How could I
6:48:06 > 6:48:12refuse?I will be kinder to him if he is in front of the Treasury
6:48:12 > 6:48:15committee as a result. There was a issued that my right honourable
6:48:15 > 6:48:21friend raised about the long-standing issue of overseas
6:48:21 > 6:48:25territories and Crown dependencies being required to introduce a public
6:48:25 > 6:48:27register of beneficial ownership. Could the Minister address that
6:48:27 > 6:48:32point? Is there not an opportunity in the forthcoming budget to
6:48:32 > 6:48:40introduce public country by country... To practical measures
6:48:40 > 6:48:44around transparency that this leadership could take leadership of.
6:48:44 > 6:48:49The Honourable member rate is to reasonable point. I will take to the
6:48:49 > 6:48:56bank his offer of going easy on me as and when I appear before him at
6:48:56 > 6:48:59his committee. The first point, should we have registered of
6:48:59 > 6:49:05overseas interests in the public domain? What matters is that we give
6:49:05 > 6:49:15HMRC the tools to do the job. I file a tax return every year, that is not
6:49:15 > 6:49:20in public domain. If HMRC want to come to me and asked questions, they
6:49:20 > 6:49:24are able to. That is widely common reported in standards that we
6:49:24 > 6:49:31brought in a dear earlier suggested are so important. We transfer
6:49:31 > 6:49:35information over 100 countries to make sure that HMRC has the tools to
6:49:35 > 6:49:39the job. Country by country reporting, once again, very
6:49:39 > 6:49:46important issue. Our view is that this is best met on a multilateral
6:49:46 > 6:49:51basis, all countries get involved at the same time and we continue to
6:49:51 > 6:49:58work with our European partners. Finally, could I for a second
6:49:58 > 6:50:00occasion, which is even more delightful than the first, say, I
6:50:00 > 6:50:07hope that you and everybody in the house of all the staff, all those
6:50:07 > 6:50:11who make this extraordinary and wonderful institution work so well,
6:50:11 > 6:50:16a very happy and productive recess. The question is that this house
6:50:16 > 6:50:26adjourns.Aye. I think the aye and Mac have it. The ayes have it.
6:50:26 > 6:50:36Order.