16/11/2017

0:00:00 > 0:00:01conduct of what ministers say is not a matter for me, nor is it a matter

0:00:01 > 0:00:04for me whether the honourable gentleman stays in his place. But,

0:00:04 > 0:00:11let us move that very matter. For we now come to the backbench motion on

0:00:11 > 0:00:19the roll-out of Universal Credit. I promise a Frank Field to move the

0:00:19 > 0:00:27motion.Thank you. I rise on the motion to present to this House the

0:00:27 > 0:00:31select committee report on the roll-out of Universal Credit,

0:00:31 > 0:00:37although I think some of this would not like to use roll-out of an

0:00:37 > 0:00:40appropriate name for what is actually happening to Universal

0:00:40 > 0:00:45Credit in our constituencies. But I want to give thanks to the backbench

0:00:45 > 0:00:53committee that gave us the opportunity to raise this really

0:00:53 > 0:00:56important topic that is now affecting a growing number of

0:00:56 > 0:01:02constituents, my constituents. The new horror began the Universal

0:01:02 > 0:01:10Credit was fully rolled out yesterday. I want to begin by

0:01:10 > 0:01:13confessing my own inadequacies. I am sure most of this, if not all of us,

0:01:13 > 0:01:21when we get out to debate in this great place, reflect on how we

0:01:21 > 0:01:26simply do not have the language to match up to the tasks that we are

0:01:26 > 0:01:30trying to present through this chamber to the nation on what is

0:01:30 > 0:01:36happening. I have to say it is the most important debate that I have

0:01:36 > 0:01:44ever participated in in nearly 40 years as the member of Parliament

0:01:44 > 0:01:53for Birkenhead and I have never more felt the inadequacies of the

0:01:53 > 0:01:57language I have to try and tell the House what horror is happening now

0:01:57 > 0:02:03to a growing number of my constituents. And what is called

0:02:03 > 0:02:09this welfare reform programme. I will speak briefly, I promise you if

0:02:09 > 0:02:14I don't get lots of like last Tuesday.

0:02:14 > 0:02:24LAUGHTER I want to do it briefly around five

0:02:24 > 0:02:37themes, predict things. One is we already can report -- brief scenes.

0:02:37 > 0:02:40Report on the role law of credit of Universal Credit without its full

0:02:40 > 0:02:44roll-out. Secondly, the chaos that now presents itself in my

0:02:44 > 0:02:51constituency as organised chaos. Secondly I really want to look at

0:02:51 > 0:02:58what is the national impact of what is going to be a growing crash and

0:02:58 > 0:03:05smash of many decent and honourable people's lives. Fourthly, the one

0:03:05 > 0:03:09reform that all of this on the select committee came to, not the

0:03:09 > 0:03:13only one we present, but we thought with the evidence we have, it is not

0:03:13 > 0:03:18what we think or feel, that the biggest change that the Government

0:03:18 > 0:03:24could make is which is in from six weeks to four weeks. Then I might

0:03:24 > 0:03:31touch on the long-term reforms. When I saw the minister at the copy

0:03:31 > 0:03:35machine yesterday and he kindly told me she would be replying, I said,

0:03:35 > 0:03:43you know, that I had asked for times the question already that the

0:03:43 > 0:03:48Secretary of State, who I am sorry is not here today, because I'm sure

0:03:48 > 0:03:56there is no such more important task for him. Seriously, on he has gone

0:03:56 > 0:04:01about his career in this House, this is an issue of such national

0:04:01 > 0:04:04importance, for the Secretary of State not to be here in itself says

0:04:04 > 0:04:09something pretty big. Five times I have asked him, he tells me, go back

0:04:09 > 0:04:16home and say it is all OK, don't worry it will be rolled out fine.

0:04:16 > 0:04:22The food bank says we need 15 tonnes more food. Who are we to believe?

0:04:22 > 0:04:27Might I just therefore tell the House to begin with, one case which

0:04:27 > 0:04:40began some time ago, they turned to their MP for help yesterday, it is

0:04:40 > 0:04:43an historic case. It was of a gentleman that had waited, waited

0:04:43 > 0:04:50and waited for an operation at our local hospital. That operation was

0:04:50 > 0:04:55taking place when he was told to turn up for an interview at a job

0:04:55 > 0:05:05Centre plus. He was sanctioned. A friend befriending him reported in

0:05:05 > 0:05:12yesterday that this constituent of mine is now homeless and while being

0:05:12 > 0:05:22homeless, struggling to recover from that surgery. So, let me now turn to

0:05:22 > 0:05:26that, the five examples of the horrors that are happening to

0:05:26 > 0:05:36Birkenhead under the existing system. Simplified and manageable we

0:05:36 > 0:05:41were told. I don't want to speak long, we can give yards of cases for

0:05:41 > 0:05:45what is actually happening to our constituents. Constituent one let's

0:05:45 > 0:05:51call them. They made three applications online. When they

0:05:51 > 0:05:56finally got through they were told, no application had been received.

0:05:56 > 0:06:04Six weeks from the third application being made where they then paid. Six

0:06:04 > 0:06:08weeks from the third application. They had three children to feed.

0:06:08 > 0:06:18They were hungry. Example two. That my constituent had twice attempted

0:06:18 > 0:06:22to apply online. Twice the application had been lost. A further

0:06:22 > 0:06:34eight weeks they waited before money. They were hungry. Constituent

0:06:34 > 0:06:38three that had a four-year-old daughter who had waited two months

0:06:38 > 0:06:46for Universal Credit to be processed. Tried the hotline six

0:06:46 > 0:06:49times, but a new system was in place and it took them several days to

0:06:49 > 0:06:55phone her back. She was then told, wow, no claim could be found. A

0:06:55 > 0:07:02payment date was pushed back a further 11 days. My constituent and

0:07:02 > 0:07:11her daughter went hungry. I willingly give way.Very gracious of

0:07:11 > 0:07:14him to give way. These are heartbreaking and unacceptable

0:07:14 > 0:07:20accounts. But could he help me in this respect, when I met with the

0:07:20 > 0:07:25citizens advice bureau, we have Universal Credit rolled out in July,

0:07:25 > 0:07:28now they are making arrangements with all relevant authorities, so

0:07:28 > 0:07:32that these very examples do not exist. My question to the right

0:07:32 > 0:07:36honourable gentleman, did these constituents come to him at the end

0:07:36 > 0:07:42of the ghastly process or earlier on, if they had come early on, we as

0:07:42 > 0:07:47MPs all have exactly the access to speed it up, would he agree that he

0:07:47 > 0:07:53should be doing this now before it comes out in our areas?I could not

0:07:53 > 0:07:57agree more, though being here a little longer than the right

0:07:57 > 0:08:01honourable lady, I never thought as an MP that I would be speaking like

0:08:01 > 0:08:07this about this, with my job adapted in this way. Of course, we have had

0:08:07 > 0:08:11summits, we are continuing to have summits, bringing all the people

0:08:11 > 0:08:16together, including Jobcentre plus, to try to prevent this happening,

0:08:16 > 0:08:21even despite those efforts, these are the cases of horror that are

0:08:21 > 0:08:27resulting and that I am presenting to the house. Constituent four

0:08:27 > 0:08:32waited 12 months for Universal Credit, the Secretary of State,

0:08:32 > 0:08:37bless him, not here today, admitted some error had occurred, my

0:08:37 > 0:08:46constituent is sinking in debt, despite the role of CAB, MPs, food

0:08:46 > 0:08:55banks, welfare rights advisers are in, yes. Constituent five, migrated

0:08:55 > 0:08:58to Universal Credit from housing benefit, housing benefit stopped

0:08:58 > 0:09:02immediately, they waited seven weeks for Universal Credit, when it came,

0:09:02 > 0:09:11there was no housing component. Again, this constituent risks being

0:09:11 > 0:09:23a evicted.Incredibly powerful case. Even if the system worked perfect, I

0:09:23 > 0:09:30have been contacted by constituent in Walthamstow desperately terrified

0:09:30 > 0:09:39by their rent arrears, they know that any delay in getting amendments

0:09:39 > 0:09:44they will hit that thousand pounds mark, even when the system works

0:09:44 > 0:09:48personally, these inherent delays push us back about them into debt

0:09:48 > 0:09:55which will cost us all more.We will come onto touching briefly about the

0:09:55 > 0:09:58reforms that we want and that we will push for and review in the

0:09:58 > 0:10:02select committee but it must be based on evidence. The evidence is

0:10:02 > 0:10:10melting.I'm a dreamy grateful in giving way again, the Times has

0:10:10 > 0:10:14reported today that property companies are doing pre-emptive

0:10:14 > 0:10:20evictions. -- I'm very grateful for the honourable member giving way.

0:10:20 > 0:10:24The Times is reporting this today, it is happening in the front line,

0:10:24 > 0:10:29pre-emptive evictions for those on Universal Credit. What impact will

0:10:29 > 0:10:32this have on already vulnerable claimants of Universal Credit?

0:10:32 > 0:10:43Shameful!As my honourable friend... Four East London... And for Hove, on

0:10:43 > 0:10:49the coast... Both of these statements are true and I am sure

0:10:49 > 0:11:02they will catch you. Can I touch on the support, every Tom Dick and

0:11:02 > 0:11:09Harry organisation seems to be bedded in the system, Jobcentre

0:11:09 > 0:11:13officials say even when the system is up and running, as in Birkenhead,

0:11:13 > 0:11:18claims are closed down in error, and it takes them several months to

0:11:18 > 0:11:27rebuild that claim. There is no money during that... I want

0:11:27 > 0:11:30everybody to get in, but I am so anxious to get through this, can I

0:11:30 > 0:11:36move on. Despite my real affection for people who I know have fought

0:11:36 > 0:11:44the battle hard on this, I do really wish to pursue. I have got four

0:11:44 > 0:11:52constituents who have had claims closed down, only to imaginable

0:11:52 > 0:11:56consequences of what that has meant for their lives. One of their

0:11:56 > 0:12:01landlords has said, I don't want to evict the tenant, however, I might

0:12:01 > 0:12:08be left with no choice. That's tenant in question has said, I am

0:12:08 > 0:12:13not only behind with my rent, with my council tax, all I have got to

0:12:13 > 0:12:18live off is on child benefit, and the school has been so worried about

0:12:18 > 0:12:26the welfare of my son that my sister offered to take the sun into her

0:12:26 > 0:12:33household so that the child was not taken into care. I might be able to

0:12:33 > 0:12:44later on, but I want everyone to have their chance to speak if I may.

0:12:50 > 0:12:54One example of a lad who asked huge difficulty took a part-time job, the

0:12:54 > 0:12:59pride of the job, walking out in the morning knowing at the end of the

0:12:59 > 0:13:03week you were going to bring home a wage packet, at the end of the week,

0:13:03 > 0:13:10not for weeks, not six weeks, the end of the week, a wage packet. The

0:13:10 > 0:13:13transformation in him, the Jobcentre decided that he was not trying hard

0:13:13 > 0:13:20enough to get a job. So they sanctioned him, took his money away,

0:13:20 > 0:13:29he then could not exist on the money from his job, he now has no money.

0:13:29 > 0:13:35He is well on his way to destitution. What then, as my third

0:13:35 > 0:13:45theme, is the national impact of this slow motion crash. For us. But

0:13:45 > 0:13:50a high-speed crash for constituents, what has the trust will trust told

0:13:50 > 0:13:53us about the impact from around the country of this roll-out of

0:13:53 > 0:14:03Universal Credit? We must remember, Castle trust is the trade union of

0:14:03 > 0:14:11only half of our food banks, so to speak, thereof port, that they need

0:14:11 > 0:14:161500 additional tonnes of food for the coming year. That they will need

0:14:16 > 0:14:23an additional 2000 tonnes of food to take on the consequences now of

0:14:23 > 0:14:30Universal Credit. In Birkenhead, as I said, 15 tonnes of food will be

0:14:30 > 0:14:35needed in the coming year. So we know that this slow crash has

0:14:35 > 0:14:42evolved, coming out weeks, we knew it was going to happen, and now, it

0:14:42 > 0:14:46has actually begun in Birkenhead yesterday. That, really, is why the

0:14:46 > 0:14:52select committee, in one mind, on the evidence that it received, said

0:14:52 > 0:14:57that the most important thing that the government could do, well there

0:14:57 > 0:15:01are many things to do, but there was one thing that stood out from our

0:15:01 > 0:15:06evidence, we wanted them to do, as quickly as possible, that was to

0:15:06 > 0:15:13reduce the weight from six weeks maximum 24 weeks maximum. Indeed,

0:15:13 > 0:15:18the first 133 submissions to the select committee told us that the

0:15:18 > 0:15:28six weeks wait is the main force pushing people to know food, risking

0:15:28 > 0:15:32everything, and on the brink of destitution. And it is not a

0:15:32 > 0:15:37surprise, is it, Minister, when your data from your old department, the

0:15:37 > 0:15:44Treasury, tells us that more than half of low and middle income

0:15:44 > 0:15:50families have no savings at all to fall back on. Two thirds of us have

0:15:50 > 0:16:00less than a month is savings to tide us over in a crisis. The idea that

0:16:00 > 0:16:05families can wait for six weeks...! The most vulnerable people that we

0:16:05 > 0:16:12have the honour to represent in this house... That idea is... Well, in

0:16:12 > 0:16:18the cold light of day, you wonder how any decent set of people... The

0:16:18 > 0:16:23great architect of this reform is not now in this place, he was

0:16:23 > 0:16:26earlier on... The member for Chingford... The idea he ever wanted

0:16:26 > 0:16:32this result for this reform, I hope he welcome back and tell us, why,

0:16:32 > 0:16:38when he failed to fend off cuts from the previous Chancellor of the

0:16:38 > 0:16:42Exchequer, why he could not ever, ever, ever have envisaged that this

0:16:42 > 0:16:53is where a reform of noble intent should actually end, in this set of

0:16:53 > 0:16:55personal nightmares for constituents. Let me begin to

0:16:55 > 0:16:59conclude, if I may, there are also of course but we do not have the

0:16:59 > 0:17:03evidence on the select committee, for these, but we may get the

0:17:03 > 0:17:09evidence, to persuade us all, to have a united report, but for me, it

0:17:09 > 0:17:15seems to be five obvious reforms that we now need to build on to

0:17:15 > 0:17:22Universal Credit, as well as that forward weight. First of all, if

0:17:22 > 0:17:28Scotland can have two weekly payments, why can't England have

0:17:28 > 0:17:32two-weekly payments? Northern Ireland will get payments every two

0:17:32 > 0:17:38weeks, why can't Wales get payments every two weeks. I thank Scotland

0:17:38 > 0:17:42for negotiating itself contracted agreement, to show that what was

0:17:42 > 0:17:47thought to be " impossible" is only possible, once you pressure is

0:17:47 > 0:17:54applied. You'd thanks to them. But we also want rents paid directly,

0:17:54 > 0:18:02people wish that. Thirdly, we want the DWP automatically to tell local

0:18:02 > 0:18:06authorities and housing associations that their tenants will be pushed

0:18:06 > 0:18:13into debt... That is not our job, it is not the CAD's job, it is the

0:18:13 > 0:18:16department's job to be doing that, we know that under the current

0:18:16 > 0:18:22system, babies and toddlers are going without healthy vouchers, and

0:18:22 > 0:18:27children without free school meals because the data that was separately

0:18:27 > 0:18:32held but is now held in Universal Credit, which could be given to

0:18:32 > 0:18:37local authorities, is not. Could that terrible nonsense please come

0:18:37 > 0:18:47to an end. And then lastly, I had a fight, and members with me had a

0:18:47 > 0:18:54fight, when the government took off the statute book that the duty of

0:18:54 > 0:18:56the Secretary of State and the DWP was to promote the welfare of

0:18:56 > 0:19:01claimants. They said it was not necessary, tidying up the statute

0:19:01 > 0:19:08book... We are all in favour... Who could possibly be against promoting

0:19:08 > 0:19:12the welfare of claimants, and might argue was that if it is so

0:19:12 > 0:19:17unnecessary, let's leave it on, in case. The current sanctions policy

0:19:17 > 0:19:25could never, ever, ever have worked, without, if that power on the

0:19:25 > 0:19:27Secretary of State to be concerned with the welfare of claimants had

0:19:27 > 0:19:33existed. Because we know the Secretary of State delegates to

0:19:33 > 0:19:38every person working in the DWP offices, as to carry out that

0:19:38 > 0:19:43discretion on behalf of the Secretary of State. As you know, I

0:19:43 > 0:19:49was as tough as old boots about needing sanctions, people had to

0:19:49 > 0:19:55actually apply by the rules. But the idea that we have sanctions without

0:19:55 > 0:20:00anybody in the office being able to exercise discretion is an appalling

0:20:00 > 0:20:07combination. And to be presented as an officer, with some be you can

0:20:07 > 0:20:12ring the hospital and find I was actually on the operating table when

0:20:12 > 0:20:19you actually wanted me here for an interview. Please don't sanction

0:20:19 > 0:20:22me... And the sanction is automatically applied, because there

0:20:22 > 0:20:28is no discretion... That should end. Therefore, a clique, to the

0:20:28 > 0:20:35unbelievably decent minister, who is going to reply. There is mutterings,

0:20:35 > 0:20:39he says he is appalled, doesn't need to happen, why it will not happen...

0:20:39 > 0:20:43On the record, I want him on the record when he comes to reply, and I

0:20:43 > 0:20:48will end on this, this is the fifth time of asking the Treasury bench.

0:20:48 > 0:20:54The government tells me that the roll-out of Universal Credit in

0:20:54 > 0:20:59Birkenhead is going hunky-dory... That all the things that I have

0:20:59 > 0:21:04tried to represent, all the please about the food bank, about can we

0:21:04 > 0:21:10raise 15 tonnes more food, that that is scaremongering... Will he now

0:21:10 > 0:21:15answer the question, when he comes to reply, are they still as

0:21:15 > 0:21:21confident as they were when I first asked the question, months away from

0:21:21 > 0:21:27the universal roll-out, or do I go home and roll up my sleeves am a

0:21:27 > 0:21:32with those, with the food bank, trying to raise 15 tonnes more food,

0:21:32 > 0:21:38to prevent families being engulfed in hunger this Christmas and beyond

0:21:38 > 0:21:44of undue proportion? It is a national scandal, which the

0:21:44 > 0:21:52government could stop, will it, please?The question is, as on the

0:21:52 > 0:22:06order paper, I am delighted to call, to make his maiden speech...

0:22:13 > 0:22:19Mr David Dukitt. It is my maiden speech, I have just started engaging

0:22:19 > 0:22:25with my local citizens advice and job centres, on this subject, in

0:22:25 > 0:22:28preparation for roll-out in my constituency, in much the same way

0:22:28 > 0:22:35as my right honourable friend. Madame Deputy Speaker, I am proud

0:22:35 > 0:22:41and honoured to have been elected to represent the people here in this

0:22:41 > 0:22:46place, I have already spoken on the beauty of their own Scottish

0:22:46 > 0:22:50constituencies. -- David Duguid. Being the last Scottish Conservative

0:22:50 > 0:22:56to deliver my maiden speech, I can now save definitively that Banff and

0:22:56 > 0:22:58Buchan is the most beautiful!

0:23:03 > 0:23:06I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my

0:23:06 > 0:23:12predecessor. She worked hard for her constituents as well as in this

0:23:12 > 0:23:21Parliament. Earlier this year she became the first SNP member to...

0:23:21 > 0:23:24Enhanced to protect victims of domestic abuse. I'm sure the whole

0:23:24 > 0:23:28house will thank her for her contribution and wish you well in

0:23:28 > 0:23:34the future. However, it was clear to me and my colleagues from the

0:23:34 > 0:23:38north-east of Scotland, from the election results in June, that the

0:23:38 > 0:23:42people of north-east Scotland do not want another independence

0:23:42 > 0:23:46referendum. On top of that, regardless of how they voted in the

0:23:46 > 0:23:51EU referendum, and for information my own constituency did vote to

0:23:51 > 0:23:56leave the EU. The electorate made it clear that they wanted the

0:23:56 > 0:24:02Government to get on and deliver Brexit. I delivered all I could in

0:24:02 > 0:24:05supporting and influencing Government to get the best deal for

0:24:05 > 0:24:09Scotland. Leaving the EU presents great opportunities for the two main

0:24:09 > 0:24:14industries that define my constituencies, fishing and farming.

0:24:14 > 0:24:19As we leave the EU we will leave the common fisheries policy, and as we

0:24:19 > 0:24:24do we will regain complete control to our fishing waters out to 200

0:24:24 > 0:24:34nautical miles. We have two of the largest fishing points in Europe.

0:24:34 > 0:24:43Peterhead is supplying the north sea oil and gas as well as offshore wind

0:24:43 > 0:24:46projects. Food processing is in my constituency with exports across

0:24:46 > 0:24:52Europe and beyond including America and a stranger. The other key

0:24:52 > 0:24:56industry in my constituency is agriculture. And I am bound to say

0:24:56 > 0:25:01that we have some of the best grazing land available which

0:25:01 > 0:25:07produces the best Scotch beef and lamb. The topic of food and in in

0:25:07 > 0:25:11Scotland cannot pass without mentioning Scotch Whisky. Although

0:25:11 > 0:25:14there are relatively few distilleries located in my

0:25:14 > 0:25:18constituency, a lot of mock barley is growing there. Many of my

0:25:18 > 0:25:21constituents and those across the north-east of Scotland are employed,

0:25:21 > 0:25:26as I was, for 25 years in the oil and gas industry. Workers from

0:25:26 > 0:25:33across Scotland community and Dean or offshore. Many work in related

0:25:33 > 0:25:36manufacturing engineering and related services not just in

0:25:36 > 0:25:41Aberdeen. Many of these businesses were started by local entrepreneurs

0:25:41 > 0:25:43and I still family-owned and grown into the biggest employers in the

0:25:43 > 0:25:50area. Some have won UK national awards for the focus on training in

0:25:50 > 0:25:53young people. I therefore find it incredible that a constituency that

0:25:53 > 0:25:58is home to so many entrepreneurs, small and medium businesses, that

0:25:58 > 0:26:03contributes greatly to the food, drink and energy sectors has one of

0:26:03 > 0:26:07the slowest average broadband speeds in the country. The average download

0:26:07 > 0:26:11speed of 6 megabits per second can only be drained by many of my

0:26:11 > 0:26:18constituents. They will get one or two if they get any at all. This

0:26:18 > 0:26:22lack of connectivity hampers business growth, discourages people

0:26:22 > 0:26:26from coming to live in the area and I have made it one of my top

0:26:26 > 0:26:30priorities to pressure governments on both sides of the border to

0:26:30 > 0:26:39deliver an acceptable minimum broadband performance across rule

0:26:39 > 0:26:45areas not just towns and cities. But as these become more and more the

0:26:45 > 0:26:51norm, including applications to Universal Credit, many people still

0:26:51 > 0:26:56do not have access to broadband, this is not acceptable. Broadband is

0:26:56 > 0:26:59rapidly becoming an essential service for every business, school,

0:26:59 > 0:27:08hospital and household, no matter where they are located. Another

0:27:08 > 0:27:11strong industry is tourism. Our coast across the north-east of

0:27:11 > 0:27:21Scotland is unlike any other in the British Isles. Rugged cliffs home to

0:27:21 > 0:27:31birdlife including an important gannet colony. Our shoreline is

0:27:31 > 0:27:35regularly visited by porpoises, dolphins and occasionally come back

0:27:35 > 0:27:46or killer whale. -- humpback. In summary, my constituency is a great

0:27:46 > 0:27:51place to live, however some of the standard of some public services,

0:27:51 > 0:27:56education and health, have taken a kid back in recent years under an

0:27:56 > 0:28:04S&P Government obsessed with pursuing independence at any cost.

0:28:04 > 0:28:14Shops lying empty, particularly in coastal areas. In conclusion, like

0:28:14 > 0:28:18the members on the benches opposite, I welcome the opportunity to have

0:28:18 > 0:28:22strong voices, Scottish voices, in this House. With that said, I am

0:28:22 > 0:28:26especially glad to be one of the 12 additional Scottish Conservative

0:28:26 > 0:28:35voices on this site. Thank you.It would be obvious to the House that a

0:28:35 > 0:28:40great many people want to speak and we have limited time. So I have to

0:28:40 > 0:28:45have an immediate time limit of six minutes.Can I first of all

0:28:45 > 0:28:52congratulate the honourable member on what was a really powerful maiden

0:28:52 > 0:29:02speech. He makes a really good case for getting up to visit, I will be

0:29:02 > 0:29:04booking a trip as soon as possible to taste the Whisky, see the

0:29:04 > 0:29:08wildlife that he is talking about, he is a wonderful advocate for the

0:29:08 > 0:29:13area. If I might also say, that the honourable gentleman looked

0:29:13 > 0:29:17incredibly confident and relaxed giving a speech. I think back to how

0:29:17 > 0:29:21nervous I felt in my maiden speech, and you did yours like an old pro. I

0:29:21 > 0:29:29think we can look forward... Seasoned might be a better term. We

0:29:29 > 0:29:32can look forward to many more excellent contributions and I wish

0:29:32 > 0:29:37him very well in his career in this House. I would also like to thank my

0:29:37 > 0:29:42honourable friend the member for Birkenhead for raising this very

0:29:42 > 0:29:47important issue in the House today. Croydon was one of the first borough

0:29:47 > 0:29:55is where Universal Credit has been rolled out so we can see what an

0:29:55 > 0:29:59utter disaster it has become. I have a long and growing stream of people

0:29:59 > 0:30:03coming into my office, many of them close to tears, because Universal

0:30:03 > 0:30:08Credit has forced them into debt, made it harder for them to stay in

0:30:08 > 0:30:12work, or left many of them facing eviction for rent arrears. Our local

0:30:12 > 0:30:18council has had to spend £3 million so far to stop people being evicted

0:30:18 > 0:30:22because of late payments for rent. Local food banks are running out of

0:30:22 > 0:30:27food because of the vast increase of people who if you are going hungry

0:30:27 > 0:30:31because of what the Government scheme has done to them. Over 1000

0:30:31 > 0:30:35tenants in Croydon now have rent arrears of over three months and are

0:30:35 > 0:30:42at risk of losing their home because of the failures of Universal Credit.

0:30:42 > 0:30:47Do they agree with me that one of the problems, not the only one, is

0:30:47 > 0:30:53problems with the IT of Universal Credit isn't yet working properly?I

0:30:53 > 0:30:59absolutely agree. He races at very important point. I cannot for the

0:30:59 > 0:31:01life of me understand why the Government insists on ploughing

0:31:01 > 0:31:05ahead when it is quite clear that the IT system is not fit for

0:31:05 > 0:31:09purpose. They should pause it, fix it and before they inflict this

0:31:09 > 0:31:13damage on any more people. According to my own council figures, a tenant

0:31:13 > 0:31:21on housing benefit the previous legacy system, had an account that

0:31:21 > 0:31:25was £42 incredible in balance. Under Universal Credit for people moving

0:31:25 > 0:31:32to that system, the average tenant has a balance £722 in arrears. This

0:31:32 > 0:31:36is supposed to be a system that is helping though income families, but

0:31:36 > 0:31:40instead it is forcing them into debt and forcing them out of their homes.

0:31:40 > 0:31:49I would like to share just ate few short examples from my... I'm sure

0:31:49 > 0:31:54we will have many more. I had one constituent come to me does in £400

0:31:54 > 0:31:57in debt and two months rent of years because of errors in Universal

0:31:57 > 0:32:01Credit and she had no money left to buy food for her family or to heed

0:32:01 > 0:32:05her home. Another was a mother of five children who was left waiting

0:32:05 > 0:32:10nine weeks for her payment. She works part time and is desperate to

0:32:10 > 0:32:13keep working. She wants to do exactly what the Government tells us

0:32:13 > 0:32:17she should be doing but the new system as let her down and pushed

0:32:17 > 0:32:21into debt. A pregnant mother with two young children came to see me.

0:32:21 > 0:32:26She was not eating properly because of debt, posing a serious risk, not

0:32:26 > 0:32:30just her but her unborn child. She had no option but to take out

0:32:30 > 0:32:34several high interest payday loans and has been threatened with

0:32:34 > 0:32:40eviction because of under payments. It is outrageous to lead anyone in

0:32:40 > 0:32:44those circumstances, leave alone a pregnant woman. I would like to

0:32:44 > 0:32:47raise a particular problem that is affecting severely disabled people.

0:32:47 > 0:32:52Universal Credit does not include a severe disability premium, despite

0:32:52 > 0:32:58the work of the DWP raising concerns about precisely that earlier this

0:32:58 > 0:33:02year, but the Government has done absolutely nothing. Under the

0:33:02 > 0:33:07current system, a person with severe disabilities and receiving implement

0:33:07 > 0:33:11support allowance and a premium would get £172 a week. Andy

0:33:11 > 0:33:17Universal Credit that is cut to £146 a week. I became aware of this

0:33:17 > 0:33:20because of the citizens advice bureau who referred to meet a

0:33:20 > 0:33:23claimant with severe mental health who moved on to Universal Credit

0:33:23 > 0:33:27when he became liable for housing costs. The effect was that he lost

0:33:27 > 0:33:33over £100 for benefits that covered his living expenses with no

0:33:33 > 0:33:37additional protection because he had a change of circumstances. When you

0:33:37 > 0:33:40have so little income, that scale of financial loss is utterly

0:33:40 > 0:33:48devastating. Now, Universal Credit is a unmitigated disaster for

0:33:48 > 0:33:57hundreds of the most vulnerable people living in Croydon. If this is

0:33:57 > 0:34:01not fixed in those hundreds will become thousands. People cannot

0:34:01 > 0:34:06cope. What kind of system is that penalises the poor and forces people

0:34:06 > 0:34:12out of jobs and onto benefits and into food banks? The minister here

0:34:12 > 0:34:15today must do what the House has instructed them to do when we voted

0:34:15 > 0:34:20on it recently. They must pause and fix the system before it devastate

0:34:20 > 0:34:31any more lives.It is a pleasure to contribute and to speak on this

0:34:31 > 0:34:36important matter. In particular I would like to pay tribute to my

0:34:36 > 0:34:42honourable friend, and I agree with the honourable member from Croydon.

0:34:42 > 0:34:48He gave a confident speech of a young professional, a generous

0:34:48 > 0:34:51tribute to his predecessor and in particular I appreciated his

0:34:51 > 0:34:55comments on broadband. I look forward to campaigning alongside him

0:34:55 > 0:35:00to ensure that all our rural areas have adequate access to broadband. I

0:35:00 > 0:35:05look forward to is further contributions in this place. I

0:35:05 > 0:35:08strongly support Universal Credit and I am pleased that this debate is

0:35:08 > 0:35:13the third or fourth that we have had in the last month in this place.

0:35:13 > 0:35:15Because it gives me the opportunity to reiterate my for Universal

0:35:15 > 0:35:24Credit. I am firmly of the view, as are most people on this side of the

0:35:24 > 0:35:29House, that work should always pay. That is the principle that

0:35:29 > 0:35:33underlines Universal Credit. And the passion that there is on this side

0:35:33 > 0:35:36of the House to ensure that more people get into work, are supported

0:35:36 > 0:35:45into work, and once there get on and get ever more work in terms of hours

0:35:45 > 0:35:50and in terms of quality of work. I would be delighted to give way.I'm

0:35:50 > 0:35:53grateful. Does he recognise and remember that the Labour Party in

0:35:53 > 0:35:58the early days of Universal Credit when it was first mooted, was

0:35:58 > 0:36:01supportive of the concept behind Universal Credit, but said it needed

0:36:01 > 0:36:06to be rolled out in a longer period rather than one parliament and that

0:36:06 > 0:36:09piloting needed to be much more detailed to get the system right and

0:36:09 > 0:36:16waiting. These are the issues that have gone wrong and in inflicting

0:36:16 > 0:36:24misery on a constituent. I will come that in due course. But I wish the

0:36:24 > 0:36:28Labour Party would speak up more loudly for their principle behind

0:36:28 > 0:36:32Universal Credit. Because actually what it sounds like at the moment is

0:36:32 > 0:36:36not the call for delay, it doesn't sound like a call for a pause, it

0:36:36 > 0:36:41sounds like a call for a scrap. And the Labour Party has opposed every

0:36:41 > 0:36:44single benefit change that this Government has brought into effect

0:36:44 > 0:36:49and would have cost tens of billions of pounds. But more importantly,

0:36:49 > 0:36:53isn't is not about the money. It is about the people. It is about

0:36:53 > 0:36:58encouraging people to get into work. I would be honoured to give way.I

0:36:58 > 0:37:02am really pleased to see his support for Universal Credit despite failing

0:37:02 > 0:37:06to vote for it the other week. That would he also support a renewed

0:37:06 > 0:37:12project to study Universal Credit support to get people into work. The

0:37:12 > 0:37:16DWP has delayed and denied the opportunity to review that study to

0:37:16 > 0:37:19prove whether it is still working or not, because there is a lot of

0:37:19 > 0:37:25expectation that it isn't.

0:37:25 > 0:37:28I am chairman of the or parliamentary group for youth

0:37:28 > 0:37:32employment. I want to use any mechanism there is to encourage

0:37:32 > 0:37:37everyone to get into work. We had a meeting of our all-party group and

0:37:37 > 0:37:39perhaps he would listen to the response rather than exchanging

0:37:39 > 0:37:45across. I will speak up, but if he does stop talking, he might be able

0:37:45 > 0:37:52to listen more easily. He is more than welcome to come along to our

0:37:52 > 0:37:59meetings. We had our meeting yesterday, and each month we track

0:37:59 > 0:38:07those figures. It was pleasing to see that even yesterday, we still

0:38:07 > 0:38:11have record numbers of youth in employment and record lows of young

0:38:11 > 0:38:16people who are out of work. Yesterday, the figures showed 11.9%

0:38:16 > 0:38:20were in touching distance, with the lowest on comparable records. This

0:38:20 > 0:38:25is almost half the use and employment rate that it was in 2011,

0:38:25 > 0:38:31when it was over 22% after the disastrous Labour government.Does

0:38:31 > 0:38:36this he agree with me that on the subject of creating jobs through

0:38:36 > 0:38:40Universal Credit, studies have shown that it is forecast to create 400

0:38:40 > 0:38:46jobs in every constituency across the country? Does he welcomed this?

0:38:46 > 0:38:50I warmly welcome that. I look forward to the time when we debate

0:38:50 > 0:38:54it and are looking back and saying that this has been a success. Don't

0:38:54 > 0:38:59get me wrong, we are not trying to pretend that all is rosy and that

0:38:59 > 0:39:02there are no errors, quite the opposite. Those on the side of the

0:39:02 > 0:39:06House as members opposite want to make sure that it works and I want

0:39:06 > 0:39:14to ensure that the minister is testing and learning and that we are

0:39:14 > 0:39:22constantly improving the system. But on Universal Credit, I support any

0:39:22 > 0:39:25principle that encourages more people into work. The honourable

0:39:25 > 0:39:28gentleman is about to leave the chamber, but he can read it in

0:39:28 > 0:39:37Hansard tomorrow. And he has sat down! I said I would come back to

0:39:37 > 0:39:41the Labour Party record. When the Labour Party were in power, I had a

0:39:41 > 0:39:44member of my community who came to me and said he had chosen not to

0:39:44 > 0:39:49take a job because it would not have been worth his while. There would

0:39:49 > 0:39:54have been a risk to his benefits and a risk to him. I do not blame him.

0:39:54 > 0:39:59He made a calculated and rational decision and chose not to take that

0:39:59 > 0:40:04job because of the policy of the honourable gentleman's government.

0:40:04 > 0:40:08That perhaps he could expend, if the work incentives were so poor under

0:40:08 > 0:40:12Labour, why lone parent implement increased from 44% in 1994 to 57%

0:40:12 > 0:40:21when we left office? -- and bone parent employment increased -- lone

0:40:21 > 0:40:27parent implement.It is always a pleasure to lock horns with the

0:40:27 > 0:40:31honourable member in a constructive fashion. On the last occasion that

0:40:31 > 0:40:35she chose me, she said, how about the young people in poverty? If you

0:40:35 > 0:40:42look at the figures on poverty, there are 600,000 fewer people in

0:40:42 > 0:40:48absolute poverty. I will check that figure. But I want to come back to

0:40:48 > 0:40:54the old system, the constituent who came to me under the old system

0:40:54 > 0:41:00saying it did not pay for him to go to work. Under Universal Credit, the

0:41:00 > 0:41:05principle should be that work always pays. I want to come to tax credits

0:41:05 > 0:41:14as well. We remember the fiasco. £7.3 billion worth of overpayments.

0:41:14 > 0:41:17The honourable gentleman, the member for Hove, mentioned about the speed

0:41:17 > 0:41:22with which this has been rolled out. The lesson to be learnt is that if

0:41:22 > 0:41:28you roll it out in a Big Bang fashion such as tax credits, you

0:41:28 > 0:41:31have £7.3 billion of overpayments and 2.7 billion that had to be

0:41:31 > 0:41:36clawed back from the poorest and most vulnerable. Even as a new

0:41:36 > 0:41:42member of Parliament in 2015, there were still people feeling the

0:41:42 > 0:41:47repercussions of that old system. I have a minute and a half left. The

0:41:47 > 0:41:51right honourable gentleman, the member for Birkenhead, mentioned

0:41:51 > 0:41:54about two weekly payments. I want to ask the minister what the evidence

0:41:54 > 0:41:59is about as to the numbers of people in employment currently who receive

0:41:59 > 0:42:03payment on a two weekly basis. My suspicion is that it is a very low

0:42:03 > 0:42:10proportion. But I want the minister to tackle that directly. In

0:42:10 > 0:42:15particular, I want the minister to continue to listen and learn and

0:42:15 > 0:42:19ensure that it always pays to be on work rather than on benefits.Just

0:42:19 > 0:42:24to help the situation because of the interventions, I am going to drop

0:42:24 > 0:42:28into five minutes now. If people continue to intervene, they

0:42:28 > 0:42:32understand that they would go to the bottom of the list to make sure that

0:42:32 > 0:42:42others get that chance. Chris Stephens.I congratulate the

0:42:42 > 0:42:46honourable member on his maiden speech. He has still to be persuaded

0:42:46 > 0:42:48on the merits of Scottish independence and I look forward to

0:42:48 > 0:42:57debating that with him in the next few years. I thank him for paying

0:42:57 > 0:43:04generous tribute to his predecessor. As a member of the DWP select

0:43:04 > 0:43:11committee, Mr Deputy Speaker, can I start by saying that Glasgow is a

0:43:11 > 0:43:15city where words often have more than one meaning. An attempted to

0:43:15 > 0:43:18some of this government's approach to social secure the benefits and

0:43:18 > 0:43:23Universal Credit, I would use the word ignorant. Members opposite may

0:43:23 > 0:43:26not agree with that characterisation. They may point to

0:43:26 > 0:43:29the architect of Universal Credit referred to by the honourable member

0:43:29 > 0:43:37for Birkenhead, the right honourable member for Woods agreeing who

0:43:37 > 0:43:42visited Glasgow in 2002, whereas this year, the government are

0:43:42 > 0:43:51closing Jobcentre in Easterhouse. Being a member of the Scottish first

0:43:51 > 0:43:55select committee, when we discussed the situation of Glasgow Jobcentres,

0:43:55 > 0:43:58could the honourable gentleman confirm that Glasgow had somewhere

0:43:58 > 0:44:04in the region of 16 Jobcentres and the excellent proposal, in fact, it

0:44:04 > 0:44:08wasn't radical enough in my view, of the DWP was to reduce it to eight.

0:44:08 > 0:44:13When you compared the number of Jobcentres in comparable cities in

0:44:13 > 0:44:17other parts of the country with comparable rates of employment, they

0:44:17 > 0:44:25often had two or three as opposed to the eight.Order!In response to

0:44:25 > 0:44:31that, I would say quickly that the evidence that was used by the

0:44:31 > 0:44:35government to justify closing those Jobcentres was based on information

0:44:35 > 0:44:39which didn't exist. They were using Google Maps when they should have

0:44:39 > 0:44:44been using an app that would have told them that closing Jobcentres

0:44:44 > 0:44:55means a complicated hour-long journey. Faced with all the evidence

0:44:55 > 0:44:59provided to the work and pensions committee by a wide range of people

0:44:59 > 0:45:03and organisations dealing with the impact of Universal Credit, faced

0:45:03 > 0:45:05with the reports from that committee that outlines where the

0:45:05 > 0:45:09implementation is going wrong, the government continues to argue that

0:45:09 > 0:45:17in in my city, we describe it as ignorant. In Glasgow, it means

0:45:17 > 0:45:21someone who doesn't know all the facts, someone who doesn't know

0:45:21 > 0:45:24better -- it doesn't mean that. It means someone who knows all the

0:45:24 > 0:45:29facts and knows what should be done, but chooses to do whatever they want

0:45:29 > 0:45:35despite it being wrong-headed and damaging to others. We have already

0:45:35 > 0:45:37heard the tired old government line about the policy of government

0:45:37 > 0:45:42credit as having been welcomed. It is even in the top line of the work

0:45:42 > 0:45:46and pensions committee report that in principle, Universal Credit is a

0:45:46 > 0:45:51good idea. But, and this can't be emphasised enough, it is the design

0:45:51 > 0:45:56and operation in practice that is deeply and utterly flawed. Media

0:45:56 > 0:45:59reports of a rethink or U-turn on the waiting time for Universal

0:45:59 > 0:46:05Credit were trailed yesterday come but do not seem to present a clear

0:46:05 > 0:46:09commitment to reduce to the four weeks maximum. There was some link

0:46:09 > 0:46:14to this story in next week's Budget. I can only assume what many have

0:46:14 > 0:46:17suspected, which is that Universal Credit is less to do with supporting

0:46:17 > 0:46:25people into employment and more to do with cutting the benefits bill.

0:46:25 > 0:46:28The Public and Commercial Services Union has outlined how Universal

0:46:28 > 0:46:32Credit works, as opposed to the fantasy Island wishful thinking of

0:46:32 > 0:46:36benefit system reforms. The pressure on staff is intense, with one in ten

0:46:36 > 0:46:40who work directly with Universal Credit claims leaving, double what

0:46:40 > 0:46:45is considered normal. The Department for Work and Pensions employs 30,000

0:46:45 > 0:46:49fewer staff than it did in 2010. So if the government is meant to be in

0:46:49 > 0:46:54the job creation business, it doesn't appear to be in its own

0:46:54 > 0:47:00backyard, the civil service. Jobcentre closures, lack of intimate

0:47:00 > 0:47:03access and digital exclusion or put a strain on claimants and staff --

0:47:03 > 0:47:14lack of internet access. I do claim the dropping of telephone charges as

0:47:14 > 0:47:17a recognition that something has to give. The current situation is

0:47:17 > 0:47:27unsustainable. As Universal Credit follows from the intimidation of

0:47:27 > 0:47:31Pip, which implemented hardship on many people, it is hard not to join

0:47:31 > 0:47:38the dots and work-out this government makes things more

0:47:38 > 0:47:41difficult. The changes to benefits are part of cuts agenda. The budget

0:47:41 > 0:47:45for Universal Credit is nearly 3 billion a year less than the system

0:47:45 > 0:47:55it replaces. No wonder it has delays to payments as if every pound owed

0:47:55 > 0:47:58to claimants is held in government accounts, the poorest in society are

0:47:58 > 0:48:06subsidising government expense while offshore savers do not pay tax. The

0:48:06 > 0:48:13Universal Credit report mentions the impact the six-week wait has on

0:48:13 > 0:48:17claimants. It also identifies problems which starts with a

0:48:17 > 0:48:20claimant being in debt if they are not already. There are clearly

0:48:20 > 0:48:24situations with housing situation not knowing that the tenants are on

0:48:24 > 0:48:32Universal Credit. I hope the government will also focus on that.

0:48:32 > 0:48:35I am calling for the government to cut the waiting time for Universal

0:48:35 > 0:48:38Credit and pours the roll-out. Glasgow will be the last major city

0:48:38 > 0:48:42in the UK to be subject to the full service roll-out. Before that, how

0:48:42 > 0:48:46many thousands of families, children and vulnerable people will have to

0:48:46 > 0:48:50suffer and staff before we get to that point? If a tenth of the

0:48:50 > 0:48:54resources put into chasing benefit fraud were put into chasing tax

0:48:54 > 0:48:57avoidance, how much more resources could truly support working people

0:48:57 > 0:49:04and enable them to work rather than cut off their lifelines?Before I

0:49:04 > 0:49:09begin, I would like to pay tribute to my honourable friend. I take

0:49:09 > 0:49:13issue with his claiming to have the most beautiful seat in Scotland,

0:49:13 > 0:49:17possibly the most beautiful seat in Aberdeenshire. Now that I know that

0:49:17 > 0:49:20that is where the gannets are coming from, if he could do us all a favour

0:49:20 > 0:49:25and give them up north, I would be grateful. This is the third time in

0:49:25 > 0:49:28four weeks that we have debated Universal Credit in this chamber.

0:49:28 > 0:49:34That is not a bad thing. It affects many of our constituents and it is

0:49:34 > 0:49:37arguably the biggest reform to welfare since the average report in

0:49:37 > 0:49:421940, so it is right that we debate this reform. I'm lucky at this stage

0:49:42 > 0:49:47of my parliament should career to sit on the work and pensions select

0:49:47 > 0:49:53committee. That is under the chairmanship of the honourable

0:49:53 > 0:49:56member for Birkenhead, whose skill as a lesson in how to drive a

0:49:56 > 0:49:59debate. I sit under some passionate and loaded MPs of all persuasions.

0:49:59 > 0:50:03What unites us is the desire to get to the nub of some of the biggest

0:50:03 > 0:50:07issues facing our welfare system and get answers and find out how we can

0:50:07 > 0:50:12make it better for our constituents who rely on it. I hope this comes

0:50:12 > 0:50:15through in the report we are talking about today. We all hopefully

0:50:15 > 0:50:20believe in Universal Credit and we want it to work. As the first page

0:50:20 > 0:50:25of the report states, Universal Credit has great merits. It aims to

0:50:25 > 0:50:28simplify another computer system by combining six benefits into one. It

0:50:28 > 0:50:32improves incentives for people to start paid work or increase their

0:50:32 > 0:50:38hours and it is the path to work party by mirroring the world of work

0:50:38 > 0:50:41in its operation. The report goes on to say that implement properly,

0:50:41 > 0:50:44Universal Credit has the potential to have a genuinely transformative

0:50:44 > 0:50:49effect on the labour market and can help reduce poverty. I believe

0:50:49 > 0:50:54Universal Credit is and can work. As I have said before, the Universal

0:50:54 > 0:50:58Credit work report found that 71% of people claiming Universal Credit

0:50:58 > 0:51:02found work within the first nine months of their claim, which is a

0:51:02 > 0:51:05rate 8% higher than that of the comparable job-seeker's allowance.

0:51:05 > 0:51:10And people claiming Universal Credit were three percentage points more

0:51:10 > 0:51:14likely to be in work after three months than those claiming JSA and

0:51:14 > 0:51:17four percentage points more likely to have been in work six months

0:51:17 > 0:51:21after starting their claim. These numbers look small, but signify

0:51:21 > 0:51:25thousands of lives which are dramatically improved by this

0:51:25 > 0:51:33policy. However, there are genuine concerns concerning elements of the

0:51:33 > 0:51:36roll-out, specifically the six-week wait for the first payment. It would

0:51:36 > 0:51:41be remiss of us to ignore these. The committee has put in the report that

0:51:41 > 0:51:44we are debating today that the six-week wait has been associated

0:51:44 > 0:51:49with increases in rent arrears, problem debt and food bag use. It

0:51:49 > 0:51:53urges the government to aim to reduce the standard waiting time for

0:51:53 > 0:51:57a first Universal Credit payments to one month. But it would be remiss of

0:51:57 > 0:52:00us not to acknowledge that the government has not been proactive in

0:52:00 > 0:52:06trying to find solutions for our constituents who need the help of

0:52:06 > 0:52:15the most or cannot wait the six-week period.

0:52:15 > 0:52:19The Secretary of State announced that the DWP would make Universal

0:52:19 > 0:52:22Credit more widely available to those who needed them.And we were

0:52:22 > 0:52:26all impressed by the ease and speed by which an advanced payment could

0:52:26 > 0:52:29be granted. This debate is not supposed to be about whether we

0:52:29 > 0:52:36should pause or stop the roll-out of Universal Credit. It is on the

0:52:36 > 0:52:39report of the work and pensions committee. I feel the report is

0:52:39 > 0:52:43balanced and 60 give recommendations to the Government run than unduly

0:52:43 > 0:52:49criticised what we all want to be a successful roll-out of a

0:52:49 > 0:52:51transformation will roll-out benefit. The Government are doing

0:52:51 > 0:52:57what we all want them to do, pushing ahead and learning... I will give

0:52:57 > 0:53:03way.And listening hard because Universal Credit is seen to come to

0:53:03 > 0:53:08my constituency. I am very pleased to hear and say that the advance

0:53:08 > 0:53:12payments helps with the six-week gap. Has he looked at the repayment

0:53:12 > 0:53:19period for these advanced payments and is there enough flexibility in

0:53:19 > 0:53:22the repayment of the advance payment especially the people who are

0:53:22 > 0:53:27challenged for getting back to work? I thank my honourable friend for the

0:53:27 > 0:53:31intervention and I will be blunt and honest and say I have not looked at

0:53:31 > 0:53:34that in great detail. But I will do so and get back to you. I was going

0:53:34 > 0:53:38to say that the Government is listening and should be doing what

0:53:38 > 0:53:44we wanted to do and that is to crash course asleep ahead, learning and

0:53:44 > 0:53:50refining the system as it continues to roll out this important benefit

0:53:50 > 0:53:55to the people of the UK.I would just like to share my

0:53:55 > 0:54:00congratulations for an excellent maiden speech and to congratulate

0:54:00 > 0:54:05the honourable member for Birkenhead for securing this debate. At Prime

0:54:05 > 0:54:10Minister's Questions yesterday, the Leader of the Opposition raise a

0:54:10 > 0:54:16letter from an agency in my constituency which... In

0:54:16 > 0:54:22anticipation of the roll-out next month. Effectively a pre-emptive

0:54:22 > 0:54:32notice for affection. And that notice means that any constituent

0:54:32 > 0:54:35who falls into rent arrears because of the delay in their well for

0:54:35 > 0:54:41payments can be evicted without any notice. The roll-out payments in my

0:54:41 > 0:54:44constituency is due on the 13th of December for all new claimants.

0:54:44 > 0:54:50Because of the issuing date of this notice it means that the earliest

0:54:50 > 0:54:54that people could find themselves at risk of eviction will be in mid

0:54:54 > 0:55:01January. They can be evicted without notice because it has already been

0:55:01 > 0:55:05served from mid-January until mid-May at which point the notice

0:55:05 > 0:55:10then expires and I assume that the plan will then to be too reissued

0:55:10 > 0:55:14them all. The constituent that first contacted me about this said that

0:55:14 > 0:55:18she feels utterly helpless and heartsick. I think it is an

0:55:18 > 0:55:24outrageous way to treat people and will have left all of those who

0:55:24 > 0:55:30received it stressed and worried for their futures.The honourable lady

0:55:30 > 0:55:36Ken asked to give way they cannot remain on her feet.I was really

0:55:36 > 0:55:39disappointed that the Prime Minister yesterday did not condemn that

0:55:39 > 0:55:45letter in the chamber. I would like to invite the minister here today to

0:55:45 > 0:55:50do that today instead. Yesterday the Prime Minister, rather than

0:55:50 > 0:55:54acknowledging the impact that this policy is clearly happening, she

0:55:54 > 0:55:57waxed and waned about the fact that she had not seen a copy of the

0:55:57 > 0:56:01letter. Well, I have got that letter here today and I'm very happy to

0:56:01 > 0:56:05hand over to the minister once I have finished my speech so that he

0:56:05 > 0:56:12has a chance read for himself first, if he has not done so already. It

0:56:12 > 0:56:18appears to me a blatant attempt to circumvent the laws passed in the

0:56:18 > 0:56:23Housing act 1988 and the deregulation act 2015 which requires

0:56:23 > 0:56:27two months notice to be given to tenants before an eviction can be

0:56:27 > 0:56:36carried out. A giveaway...A number of this on this bench would like to

0:56:36 > 0:56:40join her in condemning that letter which we believe is illegal and we

0:56:40 > 0:56:44would like to have a copy because my question to the honourable member,

0:56:44 > 0:56:53is how she actually met the housing association to tell?Letter is

0:56:53 > 0:56:58becoming... What that would suggest is that it can be passed to the

0:56:58 > 0:57:05member when the member has finished speaking.What I need to make

0:57:05 > 0:57:08absolutely clear is about the private rental sector, not the

0:57:08 > 0:57:11housing association. And the members opposite me may well feel that this

0:57:11 > 0:57:16is illegal. And one of them was condemning the intervention earlier

0:57:16 > 0:57:23about the fact that they believe this to be illegal. Having received

0:57:23 > 0:57:26to some completely unsolicited legal advice when lawyers in house have

0:57:26 > 0:57:32contacted me saying that this is not illegal. It is completely

0:57:32 > 0:57:37legitimate. One of the big issues with this is that even if it were to

0:57:37 > 0:57:42be illegal, that many of these people would not have the

0:57:42 > 0:57:55capabilities to seek legal redress anyway. And that is a real issue.

0:57:55 > 0:57:59Despite the very clear moral actions around this question, I am advised

0:57:59 > 0:58:04that this remains a lawful way of operating. I have even had some

0:58:04 > 0:58:09indication that some landlords are issuing these notices at the outset

0:58:09 > 0:58:13of tenancies, which is really quite frightening. But a much bigger issue

0:58:13 > 0:58:16than that that we're discussing here today. But I really hope the

0:58:16 > 0:58:20Government will look at closing this loophole in the future. I'm very

0:58:20 > 0:58:26happy to share the information that is online, my Facebook page, people

0:58:26 > 0:58:29are very welcome to go and look at that. The Government said that my

0:58:29 > 0:58:32colleagues and I on the side of the House were guilty of scaremongering

0:58:32 > 0:58:35when we warned that rolling out Universal Credit could lead to

0:58:35 > 0:58:38people going into debt or being evicted from their properties. It is

0:58:38 > 0:58:44not just ask that are making this claim. It is charities, councils,

0:58:44 > 0:58:48housing associations, it is the statistical evidence from the areas

0:58:48 > 0:58:51where Universal Credit has already been piloted, and now it is the

0:58:51 > 0:59:01letting agencies to. My local has 182 tenants that have gone onto

0:59:01 > 0:59:07credit, 145 are already in rent arrears of £400, 80% of them. When

0:59:07 > 0:59:10Universal Credit is fully rolled out, the housing association are

0:59:10 > 0:59:15expecting to see a total debt from tennis to increase to £2.2 million.

0:59:15 > 0:59:23A giveaway...Would she agree with me that actually if the Government

0:59:23 > 0:59:28were to extend the implied consent so that third sectors like housing

0:59:28 > 0:59:35associations, but more importantly, CAD and well -- well for advisers

0:59:35 > 0:59:39could give advice to people in Universal Credit without jumping

0:59:39 > 0:59:44through hoops to speak with the Universal Credit managers.I think

0:59:44 > 0:59:49that that is an excellent idea. I hope the minister will consider

0:59:49 > 1:00:03carefully and respond to. My housing association expecting an increase...

1:00:03 > 1:00:04Expecting their properties to deteriorate rather than people

1:00:04 > 1:00:12choose to eat rather than heat. I am sure that everybody will understand

1:00:12 > 1:00:17that I am really concerned that people in my town will pay a heavy

1:00:17 > 1:00:20price if the system doesn't work. The warnings against pushing ahead

1:00:20 > 1:00:25with this roll-out now are loud and clear. The Government cannot feign

1:00:25 > 1:00:29ignorance of what is likely to come. If they go ahead next month in my

1:00:29 > 1:00:36constituency as planned, they will knowingly be putting more people at

1:00:36 > 1:00:39risk of debt, fiction and homelessness. To me, that really sit

1:00:39 > 1:00:50at odds with their much heralded homelessness act, it appears the two

1:00:50 > 1:00:54areas of policy are at complete odds with one another. That is the test,

1:00:54 > 1:01:00which one is more important to them? I am pleading with the Government to

1:01:00 > 1:01:02listen, press pause on the roll-out and get this right before moving

1:01:02 > 1:01:20ahead.My congratulations to the maiden speech. Thank you to the

1:01:20 > 1:01:23right honourable member to Birkenhead for securing this debate

1:01:23 > 1:01:26and for working so closely in cross-party partnership with me on

1:01:26 > 1:01:30an issue which I know is very important to both of us. Members of

1:01:30 > 1:01:33this House and ministers will know that I fully support Universal

1:01:33 > 1:01:37Credit and believe that when it is fully implemented that it will be

1:01:37 > 1:01:42the most positive transformation of benefit system in decades. As an

1:01:42 > 1:01:46employer, I remember only too well the weaknesses of the old suits. The

1:01:46 > 1:01:4916 hour cliff edge that limited employees ability to take on more

1:01:49 > 1:01:54rows knowing they will be worse off. I was reminded of this in a

1:01:54 > 1:01:57conversation last week with a constituent, because the full

1:01:57 > 1:02:00service has not come to my local job centre in Cambridge. She does not

1:02:00 > 1:02:04want to take any more hours now because of this. What kind of a

1:02:04 > 1:02:08benefit trap is that? No one in this House can surely support a benefit

1:02:08 > 1:02:10system that actively discourages progression in work. Universal

1:02:10 > 1:02:16Credit will be different. The basic system for single and complicated

1:02:16 > 1:02:22job-seekers has been rolled out, it is different. We see more people

1:02:22 > 1:02:25moving into and upwards in work. But it is without doubt the full

1:02:25 > 1:02:31service, the full Universal Credit system that will support parents,

1:02:31 > 1:02:33families and people with disabilities were many others

1:02:33 > 1:02:37concerns. I appreciate that such a huge transformation in operation

1:02:37 > 1:02:41will come with challenges and that the test and learn approach is

1:02:41 > 1:02:48commonplace with IT projects. At the credit -- crucial difference is that

1:02:48 > 1:02:55this is about real lives and people. Get it right and the potential is

1:02:55 > 1:03:01huge. But get it wrong and the risks are simply too great. They may

1:03:01 > 1:03:07manifest themselves, I will say, in debt and hunger. It is right that

1:03:07 > 1:03:11ministers have opted to roll Universal Credit out slowly steadily

1:03:11 > 1:03:14and carefully. There have been unacceptable delays in first

1:03:14 > 1:03:20payments. I wish we had a freephone number for everyone from the

1:03:20 > 1:03:24beginning. There remain part of the system that are incomplete. The

1:03:24 > 1:03:27minimum income for the self-employed and the evidence gathering process

1:03:27 > 1:03:31for childcare costs need further development. If I am honest, I

1:03:31 > 1:03:35believe the system will never reach is truly intended potential as the

1:03:35 > 1:03:39ultimate poverty fighting machine, into the tape rate is reduced or

1:03:39 > 1:03:44work allowance is restored to their pre-2015 levels. I think the

1:03:44 > 1:03:51Chancellor for reducing the tape rate by 2% in the last budget. Every

1:03:51 > 1:03:55penny really does matter for those living on the lowest incomes. Single

1:03:55 > 1:03:58parents and second parents returning to work will be worse off now than

1:03:58 > 1:04:03they would have been under the old system. And in wet couple will lose

1:04:03 > 1:04:08about £1300 a year to the benefits cuts. Aren't they the very people we

1:04:08 > 1:04:12should be in courage and to get into work as MAC tight fiscal discipline

1:04:12 > 1:04:17and razor sharp focusing of precious resources and precise and meaningful

1:04:17 > 1:04:19intervention and smart thinking, that is what this Government does

1:04:19 > 1:04:27well. We could find the money to reverse the decision from 11,212 and

1:04:27 > 1:04:30a half thousand for all. Would it not be better to focus on the money

1:04:30 > 1:04:36that need it? I don't need it, I suspect you don't need it. If we

1:04:36 > 1:04:41want Universal Credit to be exactly like the world of work it has to

1:04:41 > 1:04:44operate like the world of work. Can any Government minister or civil

1:04:44 > 1:04:47servant honestly say that waiting six weeks for your first payment is

1:04:47 > 1:04:51normal. From my Universal Credit wish list, one ask stands head and

1:04:51 > 1:04:56shoulders above the rest. We have got to get the six week weight down.

1:04:56 > 1:05:05I remain grateful and I appreciate the Secretary of State diligence and

1:05:05 > 1:05:08receptiveness in hearing our concerns. Members on all sides of

1:05:08 > 1:05:13this House, peers, charities, the children's Commissioner and most

1:05:13 > 1:05:19importantly of our our constituents have raised concerns. We can't all

1:05:19 > 1:05:28be wrong. This six week weight must be reduced to a month. Put £1

1:05:28 > 1:05:38billion back into the paper rate with the right things to do.As well

1:05:38 > 1:05:43as making recommendations I think it is sincerely meant and it will be

1:05:43 > 1:05:46taken by the minister as what the Government can do as evidenced by

1:05:46 > 1:05:53what is in the House today. It involved immoral letting agencies

1:05:53 > 1:06:00also need to act.System change of this magnitude require everyone to

1:06:00 > 1:06:04work properly and with integrity and not inflicting any influence on the

1:06:04 > 1:06:16most honourable -- vulnerable. Further to her point about the six

1:06:16 > 1:06:23weeks, which I entirely endorse and pays the member for. Would she seek

1:06:23 > 1:06:28my point that this situation is worse and when you have a remote

1:06:28 > 1:06:34constituency in Scotland which they do not find themselves in a food

1:06:34 > 1:06:39bank or friends and relations who might be able to tide them over.

1:06:39 > 1:06:42There is a sparsity issue to this which worries me greatly.There are

1:06:42 > 1:06:46many elements which make it especially difficult for some

1:06:46 > 1:06:49people. We have to recognise that one system will not work everybody

1:06:49 > 1:06:53and we have to work together to find solutions. The reputation of this

1:06:53 > 1:06:57place has hit rock bottom again in recent weeks. Let's turn it around.

1:06:57 > 1:07:04I checked couple but in a source. Compassionate, empathetic,

1:07:04 > 1:07:09thoughtful, showing concern for others. -- thesaurus. A

1:07:09 > 1:07:14compassionate conservative does both of these things. Progressive and

1:07:14 > 1:07:18three but safeguarding of society in showing care for eyes. Let's show we

1:07:18 > 1:07:21are listening, please minister, let's do this.

1:07:26 > 1:07:30I am pleased to follow the honourable lady, who has established

1:07:30 > 1:07:35a positive reputation on these issues. I thank the business

1:07:35 > 1:07:39committee for the opportunity to debate Universal Credit again and I

1:07:39 > 1:07:43congratulate my right honourable friend from Birkenhead, who has a

1:07:43 > 1:07:45slightly longer reputation than the honourable lady for campaigning on

1:07:45 > 1:07:55these issues. I hope the minister can confirm the reports in the media

1:07:55 > 1:07:59that the Chancellor will be taking action in his Budget next week to

1:07:59 > 1:08:02reduce the waiting time on Universal Credit, and also that other changes

1:08:02 > 1:08:09might be made. It is clear from the contributions so far that it is not

1:08:09 > 1:08:14just about the waiting time, the problems with Universal Credit. I

1:08:14 > 1:08:19want to refer to some statistics and cases from my own constituency.

1:08:19 > 1:08:24Citizens Advice East End London tell me that analysis suggests that

1:08:24 > 1:08:2722,000 families in Poplar and Limehouse will be in receipt of

1:08:27 > 1:08:31Universal Credit by 2022, half of whom will be in work. They have

1:08:31 > 1:08:35dealt with hundreds of cases already, half of which relate to the

1:08:35 > 1:08:39claiming process. One involved a young mother with a five-month-old

1:08:39 > 1:08:42baby refused Universal Credit due to an incorrect decision on her right

1:08:42 > 1:08:47to resign. On rent arrears, I am grateful for information surprised

1:08:47 > 1:08:52by Andrea Baker. She tells me that of their residents claiming

1:08:52 > 1:09:01Universal Credit, of the 372, 90 8% are in arrears. That can't be right.

1:09:01 > 1:09:06Something has gone wrong somewhere in the system where the statistics

1:09:06 > 1:09:09for it benefit cap on housing benefit and bedroom tax are less

1:09:09 > 1:09:14than half that number. Andrea says that whilst there are still

1:09:14 > 1:09:16relatively fewer households transitioning to Universal Credit,

1:09:16 > 1:09:21the average 10-week wait for the first payment has pushed 98% of them

1:09:21 > 1:09:24into rent arrears. We anticipate that it would be very difficult for

1:09:24 > 1:09:27the majority of Universal Credit households to make up the accrued

1:09:27 > 1:09:33arrears. When the payment is finally received, there are also likely to

1:09:33 > 1:09:38owe money to others, family, friends, utility, credit cards,

1:09:38 > 1:09:42payday loans and credit cards. While we advise that pain when should be

1:09:42 > 1:09:50the priority, -- paying rent should be a priority, I have had similar

1:09:50 > 1:10:01reports from elsewhere. We have received statistics. For example, a

1:10:01 > 1:10:0661-year-old man made redundant last year after working in mental health

1:10:06 > 1:10:10for 22 years, following funding cuts he was unable to find work and with

1:10:10 > 1:10:14the savings made the decision to claim you see in August. His claim

1:10:14 > 1:10:19has been continually refused on the grounds of missing documentation. In

1:10:19 > 1:10:22September he was informed his housing benefit would be stopped

1:10:22 > 1:10:27with. With no UC, he has now fallen into £700 of rent arrears with his

1:10:27 > 1:10:34housing association. He has £200 to his name and now fears eviction and

1:10:34 > 1:10:36homelessness despite still unsuccessfully trying to claim

1:10:36 > 1:10:42Universal Credit and attending five job interviews. He writes, after

1:10:42 > 1:10:45four decades of almost continual employment, I find it incredible to

1:10:45 > 1:10:48find myself in this parlous state and faced with possible

1:10:48 > 1:10:56homelessness. There are a number of other cases of people on low pay

1:10:56 > 1:11:04whose monthly income is incorrectly calculated, people with partners who

1:11:04 > 1:11:07are a student having their eligibility for credit miscalculated

1:11:07 > 1:11:11because of the minimum income flow which suggests that self-employed

1:11:11 > 1:11:15people are targeted as earning £1000 a month, regardless of what they are

1:11:15 > 1:11:21actually earning. And a lady attended my surgery in a fragile

1:11:21 > 1:11:24state both emotionally and physically. She initially made a

1:11:24 > 1:11:28claim for Universal Credit in August. She was unable to manage the

1:11:28 > 1:11:31referrals because of medical and mental issues and missed a vital

1:11:31 > 1:11:34meeting which led to her claim being closed. Her benefit was finally paid

1:11:34 > 1:11:42after ten weeks with only a small interim payment and having to access

1:11:42 > 1:11:46a local food bank. This case was resolved quickly, but only after

1:11:46 > 1:11:52intervention by my team, stating how concerned they were for Miss K's

1:11:52 > 1:11:56well-being. The food love foundation say that Universal Credit referrals

1:11:56 > 1:12:00this year to the food bank are 25% when they were only 4% last year.

1:12:00 > 1:12:06All of these cases tell me that Universal Credit isn't working for a

1:12:06 > 1:12:10variety of reasons. I hope the minister can offer some expectation

1:12:10 > 1:12:14is that things will improve for my constituents as well as others whose

1:12:14 > 1:12:17members of Parliament have been making the case for them this

1:12:17 > 1:12:25afternoon.I would like to congratulate the right honourable

1:12:25 > 1:12:31gentleman for Birkenhead in securing this debate and also to listen to

1:12:31 > 1:12:38the new member for Bamford in a superb maiden speech and the debate

1:12:38 > 1:12:42about the most beautiful Scottish constituency carries on to this day.

1:12:42 > 1:12:45Waiting seven weeks for a first payment in any circumstance is very

1:12:45 > 1:12:52challenging. If someone middle class gets a new job and they have to wait

1:12:52 > 1:12:58six weeks for their first pay, that would be challenging. But it is

1:12:58 > 1:13:01likely that that individual would have savings to fall back upon.

1:13:01 > 1:13:08There might be friends and family to offer support. And they would have a

1:13:08 > 1:13:15good salary to look forward to once they started their job. But someone

1:13:15 > 1:13:21on Universal Credit, someone receiving benefits, would far less

1:13:21 > 1:13:26likely have that information, would be less likely to have savings.

1:13:26 > 1:13:30Their friends and family may not be so able to offer support. They would

1:13:30 > 1:13:37be in a far more tricky position if receiving benefits, perhaps having

1:13:37 > 1:13:43lived on the minimum wage or the living wage. So we have to recognise

1:13:43 > 1:13:48that. The six-week wait is enormously difficult for people in

1:13:48 > 1:13:54the most vulnerable position in society. I believe we ought to get

1:13:54 > 1:13:57closer to the vision set out in Universal Credit when it was

1:13:57 > 1:14:04initially rolled out, the sense of it being compatible with work, that

1:14:04 > 1:14:09work should always pay. But it is not the only place where Universal

1:14:09 > 1:14:13Credit needs to get closer to that initial vision. We need to reduce

1:14:13 > 1:14:18those seven waiting dates. If someone has previously been on

1:14:18 > 1:14:23minimum wage and has no savings and has to spend seven days without any

1:14:23 > 1:14:28income before, five weeks following the seven days, they receive their

1:14:28 > 1:14:33first payment, that is very difficult for someone with very

1:14:33 > 1:14:46little back-up. We also need to look at the paper and go further to

1:14:46 > 1:14:51giving judgment for people to get into work. But we do have a

1:14:51 > 1:14:55listening government. I would like to highlight a note sent to me by

1:14:55 > 1:15:00Bolton Citizens Advice Bureau. It says "We welcome the government's

1:15:00 > 1:15:03position to make the Universal Credit helpline free and ensure that

1:15:03 > 1:15:09all claimants are told they could get an advance payment". We call for

1:15:09 > 1:15:11the exchanges in July because they will make a real difference to the

1:15:11 > 1:15:20people we help.On the subject of advance payments, I thought there

1:15:20 > 1:15:24was nothing I didn't know about UC, but you can have a three-month

1:15:24 > 1:15:29payment holiday before you pay those advance payments back. Do you think

1:15:29 > 1:15:34the Jobcentre should advertise that more?My honourable friend makes an

1:15:34 > 1:15:40important point. It is important to increase the communication, and that

1:15:40 > 1:15:43awareness is vital. Citizens Advice and other organisations play a vital

1:15:43 > 1:15:54part in this. I know many people are calling for the month to force or

1:15:54 > 1:15:57perhaps even stop the roll-out of Universal Credit. I don't agree with

1:15:57 > 1:16:04that. I visited a Jobcentre recently that serves my constituents, and

1:16:04 > 1:16:08they were clear - do not stop. My honourable friend, the member for

1:16:08 > 1:16:14South Cambridgeshire, highlighted a number of failings with the current

1:16:14 > 1:16:21system. It has been failing far too many people, so we do need to move

1:16:21 > 1:16:26on to Universal Credit, but the initial weight must come down from

1:16:26 > 1:16:34six weeks to one month.It is a pleasure to be in a debate and have

1:16:34 > 1:16:38heard the maiden speech of the Honourable member for Bamford and to

1:16:38 > 1:16:42follow Honourable members including my honourable friend, the member for

1:16:42 > 1:16:48Birkenhead. No one could object to Universal Credit's ambitions to

1:16:48 > 1:16:51simplify the benefits system and make work pay and reduce poverty.

1:16:51 > 1:16:55But so much has gone wrong in practice that it is hard in this

1:16:55 > 1:16:59debate to know where to start. The problems we see are not just because

1:16:59 > 1:17:04of poor implementation. They are problems that have been designed in

1:17:04 > 1:17:07from the outset, despite repeated warnings from Honourable members on

1:17:07 > 1:17:12this side of the House since 2011. The programme was too ambitious, too

1:17:12 > 1:17:18risky, too complicated, too reliant complex IT systems. And it didn't go

1:17:18 > 1:17:24with the greater people's lives. Let's start with the six-week wait,

1:17:24 > 1:17:27based on the prejudice that the right and normal way in which to

1:17:27 > 1:17:31receive your income is every month. That is not the case for many

1:17:31 > 1:17:37low-paid workers, as we know. There is also the assumption just alluded

1:17:37 > 1:17:42to that there might be people who have savings in the back. Ask

1:17:42 > 1:17:45yourselves, could you manage if suddenly, your income dried up for

1:17:45 > 1:17:50six weeks or more, especially if it was the result of an expected a

1:17:50 > 1:17:54catastrophic event? You lost your job, a partner left, Utah became ill

1:17:54 > 1:17:58or you had an accident and couldn't go to work? It is unforgivable to

1:17:58 > 1:18:01put extra pressure on people on the lowest incomes in those

1:18:01 > 1:18:06circumstances. The six-week wait must be reduced. I recognise that

1:18:06 > 1:18:10exceptions can be made, but it is not clear that the system is working

1:18:10 > 1:18:13when it should. My constituent was fleeing domestic violence and told

1:18:13 > 1:18:17that she would not have to wait the six-week waiting period, but she

1:18:17 > 1:18:23still had no money after two weeks. That leads me to problems with

1:18:23 > 1:18:30advance payments. My constituent K was not told that they were

1:18:30 > 1:18:34available. And the repayment rate when she did secure an advance

1:18:34 > 1:18:39payment is punitively high, especially when combined with the

1:18:39 > 1:18:43recovery of other debts such as council tax debt, unit -- utility

1:18:43 > 1:18:46debt or debts imposed by Magistrates' Courts. Under Universal

1:18:46 > 1:18:51Credit, that can mean deductions of up to 40%, leaving claimants with

1:18:51 > 1:18:55insufficient to live on. One lone parent in my constituency was left

1:18:55 > 1:19:04with just £100.57 for a week to pay all the bills, £110 less than on the

1:19:04 > 1:19:08legacy benefit. How can that be right? Problems with debt are also

1:19:08 > 1:19:15creating problems with rent arrears. 80% of Trafford housing trust

1:19:15 > 1:19:20customers are in rent arrears. The collection which is 79.3%. While it

1:19:20 > 1:19:25is much higher over three months, that is because by that point,

1:19:25 > 1:19:28mistakes in paying their benefit have largely been sorted out or

1:19:28 > 1:19:31because they have got debt relief orders in place. It is not because

1:19:31 > 1:19:35they are adapting to Universal Credit, but because other things are

1:19:35 > 1:19:39kicking in. These problems are compounded by a complete lack of

1:19:39 > 1:19:42understanding in Jobcentre plus about alternative payment

1:19:42 > 1:19:45arrangements, in other words, paying the rent direct to landlords. The

1:19:45 > 1:19:49Trafford housing staff tell me that Jobcentre plus staff don't

1:19:49 > 1:20:00understand this, make mistakes in calculation is, make payments to

1:20:00 > 1:20:03claimants which should not be made which are then promptly swallowed up

1:20:03 > 1:20:05by the bank and other creditors. In one case am aware the alternative

1:20:05 > 1:20:08payment arrangement was refused, it was because the debt had been deemed

1:20:08 > 1:20:10of being less than eight weeks. It wasn't. The Jobcentre plus staff

1:20:10 > 1:20:13were calculating the period as being a 52 week period, whereas Trafford

1:20:13 > 1:20:19housing staff can to the claims of a 48 week period.Broxtowe CAB told me

1:20:19 > 1:20:23they were also concerned about people who were on fluctuating rates

1:20:23 > 1:20:27of ours and that those fluctuations and the lack of good coordination

1:20:27 > 1:20:34with HMRC is also causing problems for people on low wages in receipt

1:20:34 > 1:20:37of UC.I'm delighted that the right honourable lady has raised that

1:20:37 > 1:20:42point, as it brings me to my next point. Problems arise with the

1:20:42 > 1:20:51assessment period. I have one constituent who, because of the

1:20:51 > 1:20:54problems with the assessment period, received two loss of wages in one

1:20:54 > 1:21:00assessment period. Others have received different payment in

1:21:00 > 1:21:04different assessment periods. As a result, her Universal Credit was

1:21:04 > 1:21:08calculated as being zero in the month in which she had received two

1:21:08 > 1:21:12payments. The following month, she received nothing. But by this time,

1:21:12 > 1:21:18her claim had been cancelled. We were told at the time that the

1:21:18 > 1:21:21benefit was reduced that real-time information with HMRC would sort out

1:21:21 > 1:21:25this kind of problem. But they didn't. It was a failure of her

1:21:25 > 1:21:29employer to upload the data in time that meant that real-time

1:21:29 > 1:21:34information was an irrelevance because the data wasn't there. In

1:21:34 > 1:21:38other cases, we have seen constituents being paid too early,

1:21:38 > 1:21:40perhaps because their employer advances payment before the

1:21:40 > 1:21:44Christmas break, and then they lose their award and the claim is

1:21:44 > 1:21:48stopped. None of that is the fault of the claimant, but the WP are

1:21:48 > 1:21:52inflexible in their application of these assessment periods. What are

1:21:52 > 1:21:58ministers doing about this? Am told now that S's case could have been

1:21:58 > 1:22:01treated more flexibly, but I wasn't but when I first read to the DWP and

1:22:01 > 1:22:07it is now unclear to me and my constituents what the position is.

1:22:07 > 1:22:19Finally, can I do something about problems relating to ESA. If they

1:22:19 > 1:22:23make a request which goes to tribunal, that TSA claim will be

1:22:23 > 1:22:26cancelled and even if they win the claim, it cannot be reinstated and

1:22:26 > 1:22:30they are forced to remain on UC. My understanding is that though was not

1:22:30 > 1:22:34initially the case or the intention. Claimants are not being told that

1:22:34 > 1:22:38when a tribunal case starts, they can have the reinstatement of their

1:22:38 > 1:22:43ESA claim. So could the minister address that point, because it is

1:22:43 > 1:22:46putting further pressure on sick and disabled claimants who ought to be

1:22:46 > 1:22:56getting decent support from the benefits system and are not?

1:22:56 > 1:23:03When I was able privilege to hear the maiden speech, but I also wants

1:23:03 > 1:23:06to congratulate the member for Birkenhead visit during this debate.

1:23:06 > 1:23:12It was very interesting to hear what he had to say today in the chamber

1:23:12 > 1:23:16and that his constituents. The House has debated Universal Credit

1:23:16 > 1:23:19extensively over recent weeks and I am proud to take part again today.

1:23:19 > 1:23:24The principle of Universal Credit is a very good one which the opposition

1:23:24 > 1:23:28has said on many occasions that they support. But I have been concerned

1:23:28 > 1:23:32around the dialogue of the roll-out of Universal Credit in the recent

1:23:32 > 1:23:36weeks. I believe this has caused much distress amongst potential

1:23:36 > 1:23:40claimants and people who are waiting to switch to Universal Credit. For

1:23:40 > 1:23:46as long as I can remember, the benefit system in this country has

1:23:46 > 1:23:49been burdensome and complex. I have lost count of the amount of people

1:23:49 > 1:23:56who have had issues with working and claiming benefits. Job-seeker

1:23:56 > 1:24:00allowance, working tax credits and so on. I have also lost count of the

1:24:00 > 1:24:04number of people who have said there must be a better way of doing

1:24:04 > 1:24:10things. We do indeed want a welfare system which supports the most

1:24:10 > 1:24:17vulnerable and is also therefore when people fall on hard times and

1:24:17 > 1:24:24need help. And being made to claim benefits of which need to be paid

1:24:24 > 1:24:30back. The assumption is that this is wrong, that individuals should not

1:24:30 > 1:24:36have to pay back advanced payments which are indeed loans without

1:24:36 > 1:24:42interest. But will be very grateful they received by the claimants when

1:24:42 > 1:24:48they are in need of money due to the situation in which they suddenly

1:24:48 > 1:24:52find themselves. I am just wondering what members have thought when I,

1:24:52 > 1:24:57like many others, have been confronted by constituents who have

1:24:57 > 1:25:02received large bills from the DWP. When there has been mistakes with

1:25:02 > 1:25:07information given and where there have been overpayments made when

1:25:07 > 1:25:09claiming working tax credits. The members believe that those claimants

1:25:09 > 1:25:17should not have been paid back? With the situation better than with

1:25:17 > 1:25:19Universal Credit? There is also an assumption that because of these

1:25:19 > 1:25:23advance payments they will automatically get into arrears with

1:25:23 > 1:25:31their rent. Which will result in them getting evicted. I can only

1:25:31 > 1:25:36speak from my experience and from my own constituency, and I do not have

1:25:36 > 1:25:38any examples where people are being evicted from their homes within six

1:25:38 > 1:25:44weeks. In actual fact, I have seen quite the opposite in these

1:25:44 > 1:25:50situations. As we have heard before, currently approximately 40% of

1:25:50 > 1:25:55Universal Credit claimants are in work and that number of people

1:25:55 > 1:25:59moving into work once on universal tax credit is increasing. Universal

1:25:59 > 1:26:05tax credit is part of a welfare reform which is needed and has been

1:26:05 > 1:26:13designed to help people and move more people into work. And for so

1:26:13 > 1:26:17long many people have been trapped in the benefit system, people who

1:26:17 > 1:26:22want to work or work longer hours, but the stress and complexity of

1:26:22 > 1:26:26doing all this without the risk of losing all their benefits in one go

1:26:26 > 1:26:30and having to pay back large sums when mistakes had been made due to

1:26:30 > 1:26:36complexities in the current system. I want, and I know my constituents

1:26:36 > 1:26:41want, a system that helps people but does not put people off taking

1:26:41 > 1:26:50opportunities. I believe the system will do. There are always things

1:26:50 > 1:26:53that need to be improved once instrumentation begins so I am

1:26:53 > 1:26:57pleased that the Government has taken care to do a gradually

1:26:57 > 1:27:01roll-out of the nine years, moving to 10% of the current claimant

1:27:01 > 1:27:06accounts. The roll-out, in my opinion, is being taken in a

1:27:06 > 1:27:09measured and steady way, enabling the Government to address issues.

1:27:09 > 1:27:13Over recent weeks I had heard a number of members say that Universal

1:27:13 > 1:27:17Credit is getting people into debt and causing people to get evicted.

1:27:17 > 1:27:22This does concern me greatly. The rationale is that Universal Credit

1:27:22 > 1:27:29is paid in arrears and in principle this is a good idea and does form

1:27:29 > 1:27:33part of how we need to reform welfare. I have been very concerned

1:27:33 > 1:27:35with the accusations that this has been done deliberately to

1:27:35 > 1:27:40disadvantaged people when they are in need of help and maybe at very

1:27:40 > 1:27:44difficult times in their lives. In all debates, ministers have been

1:27:44 > 1:27:47very clear, people who need advance payments will get them within five

1:27:47 > 1:27:53days. In conclusion, I would hope that the opposition, after today, do

1:27:53 > 1:27:56work constructively with the Government to try and increase and

1:27:56 > 1:28:05help the roll-out.I am very pleased to take part in this debate because

1:28:05 > 1:28:08in my constituency 10,700 households are going to be moved on to

1:28:08 > 1:28:12Universal Credit. That is 21,000 people. That is almost one quarter

1:28:12 > 1:28:18of my constituents. On December the 13th, new claims and change of

1:28:18 > 1:28:25circumstances are going to be moved across. Over Christmas, many people

1:28:25 > 1:28:33will face a six week gap in their income, not so much a Merry

1:28:33 > 1:28:36Christmas, a Victorian Christmas that even Scrooge did not think.

1:28:36 > 1:28:40Ministers have banged on about advance payments. Let's look at what

1:28:40 > 1:28:47this means in practice. A single disabled person with a £400 a month

1:28:47 > 1:28:53payment takes an advance of £200 to pay their rent. If all goes

1:28:53 > 1:28:59according to plan, they will then have their payment abated so that

1:28:59 > 1:29:06their income over the next four and a half months are 200, 320, 320,

1:29:06 > 1:29:13360. In other words, instead of an income of £1800 of the period, it is

1:29:13 > 1:29:18£1200. It is not a weight, it is a cut. Many will feel that over

1:29:18 > 1:29:24Christmas it is the cruellest cut. Seven years ago in my constituency

1:29:24 > 1:29:28there were no food banks. After seven years of Tory Government, we

1:29:28 > 1:29:34have seven food banks. Previously, Labour members have talked about the

1:29:34 > 1:29:40need to address free school meals. In my opinion every child in a

1:29:40 > 1:29:45Universal Credit family should be getting free school meals. But now

1:29:45 > 1:29:49to add to the loss of income, in the six-week period, children do not get

1:29:49 > 1:29:54the free school meals either. Ministers also talk about preparing

1:29:54 > 1:30:09people for work. It is and in work benefits. In my constituency, 4500

1:30:09 > 1:30:13households being moved over, that is 40%, are already in work and have

1:30:13 > 1:30:21jobs.My understanding is that if you have ever received free school

1:30:21 > 1:30:26meals before being on benefits before, you continue to receive

1:30:26 > 1:30:30them. It is only if you are new to the benefit system that there may be

1:30:30 > 1:30:36a delay.That is not the case for new claims and change of

1:30:36 > 1:30:40circumstances. I am sorry to inform the honourable lady. I am alarmed at

1:30:40 > 1:30:48what is happening to win and in low paid work. -- women. Many are trying

1:30:48 > 1:30:54with great difficulty to do their best to balance their need to earn

1:30:54 > 1:30:57an income with their responsibilities of collecting their

1:30:57 > 1:31:01children from school and looking after them properly. They may be

1:31:01 > 1:31:07work 20 hours a week in order to get the right balance. But the

1:31:07 > 1:31:12Government is now going to employ advisers to harass them to increase

1:31:12 > 1:31:16their hours. When Labour was in power we had different rules for

1:31:16 > 1:31:19single parents then with other families. It seems to me that what

1:31:19 > 1:31:25this Government is trying to do is not help lone parents, it is grind

1:31:25 > 1:31:29them down and grind down their children as well. Furthermore, the

1:31:29 > 1:31:39situation of women fleeing domestic violence is even worse.I am a

1:31:39 > 1:31:43member under the Labour Government, single mothers coming to me, unable

1:31:43 > 1:31:52to continue work because they are better off on benefits. -- I

1:31:52 > 1:31:57remember. Does the honourable member not agree that this system is to

1:31:57 > 1:32:03help people to move into work?I'm sorry, the honourable lady is

1:32:03 > 1:32:06absolutely wrong. I looked through the statutory instruments myself,

1:32:06 > 1:32:13and when we left Government you were always £40 a week better off in work

1:32:13 > 1:32:17than not in work, and those are the facts. Women fleeing domestic

1:32:17 > 1:32:23violence are in an even worse situation. When they arrived at the

1:32:23 > 1:32:27refuge, they have to register their change of address as a change of

1:32:27 > 1:32:29circumstances, so they will be in the vanguard of these people who are

1:32:29 > 1:32:35going to have a six-week gap in their income. They may even mean

1:32:35 > 1:32:38that some of them don't flee violent partners because they are worried

1:32:38 > 1:32:44about the effect. In Bishop Auckland, huge preparations are now

1:32:44 > 1:32:48being made for the roll-out, the council is employing more people,

1:32:48 > 1:32:52their housing associations are employing more people, unlike I'm

1:32:52 > 1:32:56sorry to say, the job centres who should be employing more people. The

1:32:56 > 1:33:04housing association is increasing its provisions for bad debt

1:33:04 > 1:33:07fourfold. This means that money that would have gone to building new

1:33:07 > 1:33:15homes is now going to deal with this Government induced crisis in the

1:33:15 > 1:33:19housing system. Three months ago I asked to go on one of the digital

1:33:19 > 1:33:26courses to see how people are supported by the Jobcentre. This is

1:33:26 > 1:33:31a major issue in my constituency because we had very bad broadband in

1:33:31 > 1:33:35the oral areas and we have very high levels of digital exclusion.

1:33:35 > 1:33:40Ministers need to keep in mind, 5 million people in this country and

1:33:40 > 1:33:44never sent an e-mail. These are predominantly people on low incomes,

1:33:44 > 1:33:47the very people who are affected by this change over to Universal

1:33:47 > 1:33:51Credit. We raised this with ministers five years ago, it still

1:33:51 > 1:33:56has not been sorted out. When you make the claim, some single men

1:33:56 > 1:34:02really done this were telling me, you are timed out after 45 minutes

1:34:02 > 1:34:05if you can't complete it. It is very difficult to complete in that time

1:34:05 > 1:34:09because there is no written guidance telling you what documents you have

1:34:09 > 1:34:18to produce and stand in. -- scan. I'm not saying the only problems

1:34:18 > 1:34:21with this are administrative. I think there are fundamental problems

1:34:21 > 1:34:27with Universal Credit. Number one of which is that George Osborne took

1:34:27 > 1:34:34£3.5 billion out of the system. The problem is that the Government

1:34:34 > 1:34:38refuses to recognise that people need these payments. Because of that

1:34:38 > 1:34:49refusal, the rents are too low, the payment gaps are too long, the

1:34:49 > 1:34:55tapers are too high. Let's fix the system!I am now going to drop to

1:34:55 > 1:34:59four minutes to make sure that everyone time. It has interventions

1:34:59 > 1:35:07that is killing it.I'm pleased to have the opportunity to talk in this

1:35:07 > 1:35:11debate. I have been looking at the issue of Universal Credit, Proto

1:35:11 > 1:35:15plans that Universal Credit going about five years, it is a pleasure

1:35:15 > 1:35:21to work with the right honourable member he is a friend on the work

1:35:21 > 1:35:24and pensions select committee on this issue. To take us back to where

1:35:24 > 1:35:31this all began and to take us back to the reason why, in principle, we

1:35:31 > 1:35:36have cross-party agreement on Universal Credit, is that the system

1:35:36 > 1:35:43we had before was not good enough. It was set up with good intentions

1:35:43 > 1:35:46and we know that it was a way of trying to take people out of poverty

1:35:46 > 1:35:54by giving them hand-outs. However, in doing so, and the way it was set

1:35:54 > 1:36:00up, it actually discouraged people from taking more work. And inhibited

1:36:00 > 1:36:04their ability to move on in life, to improve this situation is and to

1:36:04 > 1:36:08support their family. It was out of that realisation that Universal

1:36:08 > 1:36:13Credit was born. The desire to build a welfare system that would slowly

1:36:13 > 1:36:17remove benefits as people moved into work. That is to say that it would

1:36:17 > 1:36:22actively encourage people to take more hours and be better off. And at

1:36:22 > 1:36:28the same time to create a system in which a world in a life out of work,

1:36:28 > 1:36:34mirrored the life in work. That means that you are in work to find

1:36:34 > 1:36:37work, let's say there is an expectation that you will look for

1:36:37 > 1:36:43work, you will sign a contract for that commitment. Your benefits will

1:36:43 > 1:36:47be paid on a monthly basis so that when you moved into work, if you

1:36:47 > 1:36:52moved into monthly employment, you would be ready for that. I cannot

1:36:52 > 1:36:54accept the argument that is sometimes made, that some people

1:36:54 > 1:36:58will never be able to cope on monthly payments. I feel that is

1:36:58 > 1:37:04extremely insulting to many people out there. I disagree with the

1:37:04 > 1:37:10honourable lady, it is. What we now have is a system coming into

1:37:10 > 1:37:14being... You can shake your head but it is true, it is insulting to

1:37:14 > 1:37:18people to say they will never be able to cope with monthly payments.

1:37:18 > 1:37:22I challenge her to have that conversation with many people who

1:37:22 > 1:37:26are looking for work, because they would be insulted by it. It is

1:37:26 > 1:37:33unfortunate that she laughs at this, because it is true. This is very

1:37:33 > 1:37:44insulting way of carrying on!Anyone can manage on a monthly payment that

1:37:44 > 1:37:48is £2000 a month. But managing on a monthly payment on £500 a month is

1:37:48 > 1:37:52rather more difficult.The honourable lady will recognise that

1:37:52 > 1:37:56there are a lot of people who do manage to do that. What we have

1:37:56 > 1:38:03within Universal Credit...

1:38:03 > 1:38:09I have had enough of this opposition. Under the Universal

1:38:09 > 1:38:15Credit system that we now have, there is personal budgeting support

1:38:15 > 1:38:19which no one on the other side of the House has referred to which

1:38:19 > 1:38:24offers money advice in order to help people with a four week payment and

1:38:24 > 1:38:27which also offers people alternative payment arrangements so that they

1:38:27 > 1:38:32can have their money paid direct to their landlord. I am sorry to hear

1:38:32 > 1:38:37that the member for Stratford found that was not working well in her

1:38:37 > 1:38:41Jobcentre. I have spoken to people in my Jobcentre and I was pleased to

1:38:41 > 1:38:46see that they were completely on top of how that system worked. Within

1:38:46 > 1:38:51Universal Credit, we do of course have a lot of problems which have

1:38:51 > 1:38:56been talked about which have emanated from the long wait for

1:38:56 > 1:39:01people coming into the system. At the start of the process, there were

1:39:01 > 1:39:06too many people waiting for too long. It is something the select

1:39:06 > 1:39:10committee's report has drawn on. However, since that first phase, a

1:39:10 > 1:39:18number of improvements have been made. Within that, we have had the

1:39:18 > 1:39:20landlord portal, which was favourably received by people who

1:39:20 > 1:39:25gave evidence to our committee, saying it would help. We have also

1:39:25 > 1:39:29seen the initial evidence interview, the once and done process which

1:39:29 > 1:39:32means that more information can be brought into the system

1:39:32 > 1:39:38straightaway. I say to the honourable members opposite, you

1:39:38 > 1:39:49cannot learn unless you test. I thank my friend for giving way. He

1:39:49 > 1:39:53is a great expert on this subject and I would like to hear more of the

1:39:53 > 1:39:58areas where he considers that we have improved. If you don't want

1:39:58 > 1:40:01people to speak, please say now, because I can take them off the

1:40:01 > 1:40:05list. That is what we are doing to each other. I don't mind, but when

1:40:05 > 1:40:11members don't get in, please realise what is going on here. Thanks, Mr

1:40:11 > 1:40:16Deputy Speaker. We are left now with a system in which there is a

1:40:16 > 1:40:22six-week wait for the initial payment. It is worth reminding the

1:40:22 > 1:40:28House why some of that exists. The model of Universal Credit is about

1:40:28 > 1:40:30having a month long assessment period in which the system

1:40:30 > 1:40:33understands how much you are earning and adjusts your payments

1:40:33 > 1:40:38accordingly. There must then be a calculation time which works out how

1:40:38 > 1:40:44much people are owed. At the moment, that is a week, but when we met the

1:40:44 > 1:40:47DWP head of Universal Credit, he said they were working to bring that

1:40:47 > 1:40:51down and it should be brought down as a matter of urgency. At the other

1:40:51 > 1:40:57end, we still have a weak's waiting to. I don't disagree with the

1:40:57 > 1:41:05government often, but my previous colleagues in previous roles no that

1:41:05 > 1:41:08I don't believe these waiting days should exist. There have always been

1:41:08 > 1:41:15a degree of waiting days in the system, three days. But the

1:41:15 > 1:41:19extension to four, which was not made by this Secretary of State or

1:41:19 > 1:41:21under this Chancellor of the Exchequer, should not have been

1:41:21 > 1:41:26introduced. That is why my committee has called on the government to

1:41:26 > 1:41:33remove those seven waiting days. We should not be pausing the roll-out,

1:41:33 > 1:41:42but we should be making this adjustment.I was hoping to walk

1:41:42 > 1:41:49this House irate timeline that what this Hazard through the procedure of

1:41:49 > 1:41:52receiving Universal Credit, but the times not allow me to do that. In my

1:41:52 > 1:41:55constituency, we have had a roll-out for 12 months. This is the abridged

1:41:55 > 1:42:01version. Based on what constituents have told me first-hand, my

1:42:01 > 1:42:07archetypal constituent, Miss Smith, is 50 years old, married and lives

1:42:07 > 1:42:11in Glasgow. She has been working in a local shop and has left on health

1:42:11 > 1:42:16grounds. She goes to a local Jobcentre in Glasgow, only to find

1:42:16 > 1:42:21it has been shot. She instead walks the three miles to the Jobcentre --

1:42:21 > 1:42:25it has been shut, but no one could advise her on the next Jobcentre on

1:42:25 > 1:42:29which benefits she is entitled to. She is told staff are benefits

1:42:29 > 1:42:32trained they are not able to offer options. Mrs Smith subsequently

1:42:32 > 1:42:38learns of a Universal Credit advice organisation. She applies on mine.

1:42:38 > 1:42:45This would make Mrs Smith unlike the 50% of my constituents who say they

1:42:45 > 1:42:50could not use a computer. Mrs Smith lodges her application today, the

1:42:50 > 1:42:5416th of November. By the 23rd of November, she realises that though

1:42:54 > 1:42:58her application has been lodged, it is in fact the least another month

1:42:58 > 1:43:03of waiting while the entitlement is calculated. At this point, Mrs

1:43:03 > 1:43:07Smith's remaining savings are used up by rent, council tax, utility

1:43:07 > 1:43:12bills, the usual things. Her husband works and they have a low income and

1:43:12 > 1:43:16there are now struggling. It is worth remembering that in 2016, the

1:43:16 > 1:43:23money advice service found that 16 million people in the UK had less

1:43:23 > 1:43:28than £100 in savings. As November presses on, Mrs Smith's situation

1:43:28 > 1:43:30becomes more desperate as she had underestimated the amount of time it

1:43:30 > 1:43:35would take to receive support. This story is based on real-life examples

1:43:35 > 1:43:42that my constituents have brought to me. People don't fall into Universal

1:43:42 > 1:43:45Credit trend, they learn as they go along. At the start of December, she

1:43:45 > 1:43:50takes her granddaughter to the movies using a credit card to pay.

1:43:50 > 1:43:54She is accumulating debt. By mid-December, she applies for a

1:43:54 > 1:43:59crisis grant and visits a local food bank. The constant pressure of

1:43:59 > 1:44:04having no money begins to creep into every facet of Mrs Smith's life. She

1:44:04 > 1:44:10stressed and the relationship with her husband is suffering.

1:44:10 > 1:44:12Nonetheless, she gets her first Universal Credit payment sometime

1:44:12 > 1:44:17after the new year. Her husband is paid weekly and coupled with

1:44:17 > 1:44:22real-time income data, it means her income fluctuates wildly as a

1:44:22 > 1:44:26result. She is now locked into a boom and bust cycle with Universal

1:44:26 > 1:44:33Credit sometimes falling to almost nothing, and waiting eight weeks

1:44:33 > 1:44:36with one assessment period. So what will the future hold for real

1:44:36 > 1:44:40residents of Inverclyde apart from uncertainty, stress and poverty

1:44:40 > 1:44:44being inflicted on them by this system? I am asking the UK

1:44:44 > 1:44:48Government politely to not ignore the overwhelming evidence that

1:44:48 > 1:44:54Universal Credit is not working. Saying the predecessor was not worse

1:44:54 > 1:45:01does not help my constituents. The roll-out must be halted. Take time

1:45:01 > 1:45:06to reform the fundamental flaws in Universal Credit and implement a

1:45:06 > 1:45:09system that truly offers the stability of which they can build

1:45:09 > 1:45:18their lives.It is a pleasure to speak in this debate and it was a

1:45:18 > 1:45:20pleasure to listen to the maiden speech of the honourable member for

1:45:20 > 1:45:28Banff and Buchan. To be fair to her predecessor, she managed to get me

1:45:28 > 1:45:32into the same division lobby as the Scottish National Party on the bill

1:45:32 > 1:45:37she put through, which was very welcome. I join him in wishing her

1:45:37 > 1:45:45all the best for her future. It is important to discuss Universal

1:45:45 > 1:45:49Credit again, as it will have a significant impact on my

1:45:49 > 1:45:54constituency, as it has on others. In having this debate, we have to be

1:45:54 > 1:46:00careful not to make out that the current system is fantastic. There

1:46:00 > 1:46:05has always been an illogicality to having a council system for some and

1:46:05 > 1:46:08if it's like housing benefit and council tax and then having the DWP

1:46:08 > 1:46:12for income related benefits. When I was deputy leader of a large council

1:46:12 > 1:46:16in the Midlands, a lot of time had to be devoted to administering

1:46:16 > 1:46:19benefits which were national benefits fundamentally. You couldn't

1:46:19 > 1:46:26change any great policy about them. It raised the question of why a

1:46:26 > 1:46:36local council was getting involved with the housing benefit element. In

1:46:36 > 1:46:41terms of the principle of Universal Credit, it is the right move. When

1:46:41 > 1:46:47we look at the change from weekly to monthly payments, we must also look

1:46:47 > 1:46:54at the change that would make more widely. The bunch of vultures at

1:46:54 > 1:46:57Brad has advertised their payments as being weekly, so they look

1:46:57 > 1:47:03affordable. -- at BrightHouse. But you have to look at the bigger

1:47:03 > 1:47:07picture, which is always in tiny writing. If it is weekly this much,

1:47:07 > 1:47:14what it will finally cost you, is that much. That might be something

1:47:14 > 1:47:21which would bring home the costs of what those appalling deals produce.

1:47:21 > 1:47:26I welcome the fact that it is a phased roll-out over nine years.

1:47:26 > 1:47:30Many of us remember the system with tax credits when it came in in one

1:47:30 > 1:47:35go. The current issue with tax credits is that because it is

1:47:35 > 1:47:39administered with HMRC, it is dealt with as if you are someone who has

1:47:39 > 1:47:43underpaid tax, which is not appropriate for those on low

1:47:43 > 1:47:46incomes. Those expecting a tax bill at the end of the year may make

1:47:46 > 1:47:49provision for that. Somebody who thought this was the amount of

1:47:49 > 1:47:55benefit they had under a tax credit system does not. In terms of its

1:47:55 > 1:47:59roll-out into Torbay in 2018, my team have been working with the DWP

1:47:59 > 1:48:03for them to undertake training around the system and respond to

1:48:03 > 1:48:08constituent queries. I recognise that there will be work with

1:48:08 > 1:48:15partners. One of the affairs raised by Don Dudley, a benefits adviser at

1:48:15 > 1:48:19a great organisation in a deprived area in my constituency, is looking

1:48:19 > 1:48:25at the current delays there are around appeals. He says if that

1:48:25 > 1:48:30exists now, what reassurance can be given to make sure similar problems

1:48:30 > 1:48:37don't come into systems based Universal Credit? I hope the

1:48:37 > 1:48:42government is listening to these issues around the six-week initial

1:48:42 > 1:48:45word-macro. Asos regulation in the press this week, being conscious

1:48:45 > 1:48:51that we have the Budget next week -- I saw speculation in the press this

1:48:51 > 1:48:57week. Perhaps the minister can explain whether those with issues

1:48:57 > 1:49:00can have their rent paid directly to their landlord. This has been a

1:49:00 > 1:49:04useful debate for the most part. It is right that we continue to have

1:49:04 > 1:49:08these so that we can ensure that when the system does roll out to the

1:49:08 > 1:49:12remaining 90% of claimants who are not covered by the current roll-out,

1:49:12 > 1:49:19it is a system that works well.I thank the honourable member for

1:49:19 > 1:49:22Birkenhead for bringing this debate today and congratulate the

1:49:22 > 1:49:26honourable member for Banff and Buchan on his maiden speech. I note

1:49:26 > 1:49:33that the compote of -- comparative beauties or our constituencies are

1:49:33 > 1:49:37yet another thing to disagree on in this chamber. Inverness had the

1:49:37 > 1:49:42pilot of Universal Credit in 2013. I am always astounded by the length

1:49:42 > 1:49:46that members who haven't experienced Universal Credit go to to defend the

1:49:46 > 1:49:51system, when they haven't actually seen what has happened. I know that

1:49:51 > 1:49:54the honourable member for South Cambridgeshire, who is not in her

1:49:54 > 1:49:59place at the moment, had said that Jobcentre staff were now telling her

1:49:59 > 1:50:06that Universal Credit was only 60% built. That is since 2013, and we

1:50:06 > 1:50:11have been feeling the impact locally on a daily basis since that

1:50:11 > 1:50:18inception. Make no mistake, you know for the sole credit -- Universal

1:50:18 > 1:50:22Credit, in its current form, without being fixed, is a disaster. It is

1:50:22 > 1:50:31only going to get worse. As it grows, the resources to support it

1:50:31 > 1:50:34are stretched further. I see members opposite shaking their heads. They

1:50:34 > 1:50:42have accused me previously scaremongering. So I invited them

1:50:42 > 1:50:46all and the minister and the Prime Minister to come to a summit in

1:50:46 > 1:50:52Inverness to hear from the agencies and the people involved about the

1:50:52 > 1:50:57problems being imposed on them. And none took up the offer. They would

1:50:57 > 1:51:02have heard harrowing stories. As I tried to relate yesterday in my

1:51:02 > 1:51:07question to the Prime Minister from the agencies, but none of them did.

1:51:07 > 1:51:11Instead when I raised that question yesterday, there was laughter from

1:51:11 > 1:51:22the benches opposite. It is recorded and people can listen to that. I

1:51:22 > 1:51:28would ask them, what is funny, the fact that it is harrowing, the fact

1:51:28 > 1:51:31that I was talking about cancer patients who were dying before their

1:51:31 > 1:51:36Universal Credit claims came through, the fact that I was talking

1:51:36 > 1:51:43about terminally ill people who have to self declare their terminally --

1:51:43 > 1:51:46that they are terminally ill, even if they have said to doctors that

1:51:46 > 1:51:50they don't want to know their fate. How cruel is that? And yet there was

1:51:50 > 1:51:58laughter. Listen members opposite are saying it was not that. Listen

1:51:58 > 1:52:04to the question, and you will hear it. If it was not any of those

1:52:04 > 1:52:10things, was at the fact that we are having problems in Inverness? The

1:52:10 > 1:52:15manager of the local Citizens Advice Bureau tweeted yesterday "It is sad

1:52:15 > 1:52:19when the misery and suffering caused by Universal Credit can be found so

1:52:19 > 1:52:27amusing. I suggest they try it for a few months". Mr Deputy Speaker, some

1:52:27 > 1:52:30adjustment is available from the Scottish Government, but Universal

1:52:30 > 1:52:36Credit is reserved. And the constant attempts to pass the buck and

1:52:36 > 1:52:39abdicate responsibility for what is the responsibility of the UK

1:52:39 > 1:52:46Government is not good enough.

1:52:46 > 1:52:53I want to try and cover this e-mail. They say it is chaos causing him and

1:52:53 > 1:53:01his colleagues. It is an unacceptable. It is not fit for

1:53:01 > 1:53:04purpose and people phone and begged to be let out on the bottom of it,

1:53:04 > 1:53:12but it is not possible. How long before one of them threaten suicide?

1:53:12 > 1:53:15There are too many issues with Universal Credit and not enough time

1:53:15 > 1:53:21to deal with it today. They need to halt it and fix it. -- let back on

1:53:21 > 1:53:26benefits.It is a pleasure to follow many colleagues including my

1:53:26 > 1:53:29honourable friend for Banff and Buchan. This is my third time I've

1:53:29 > 1:53:36spoken on Universal Credit. I will give way.My honourable friend says

1:53:36 > 1:53:40it is a pleasure to follow so many speeches, but which she agree with

1:53:40 > 1:53:44me that the speech she has just followed in tone and manner has got

1:53:44 > 1:53:47it completely wrong. There are member is on both sides who want to

1:53:47 > 1:53:53make this work.I know the member opposite and I can assure him that

1:53:53 > 1:53:59nobody here in these benches was laughing at your comment. I would

1:53:59 > 1:54:04also say that I have been... Unfortunately I could not take up

1:54:04 > 1:54:10his kind officer to go to Inverness. I was busy in Redditch doing exactly

1:54:10 > 1:54:15what he said, meeting the housing providers in Redditch to make sure

1:54:15 > 1:54:19that roll-out is going well. Universal Credit is designed as an

1:54:19 > 1:54:24agile system. I would just like to make this point in the short time I

1:54:24 > 1:54:30have. I used to work in software development, so I understand what

1:54:30 > 1:54:34this actually means in terms of designing a very, very complicated

1:54:34 > 1:54:39system that deals with individuals and their very unique and different

1:54:39 > 1:54:43circumstances. We have heard calls from the members opposite to pause

1:54:43 > 1:54:48the system. But I don't that would actually fix the problems they have

1:54:48 > 1:54:52identified. And they are right to identify the problems and the

1:54:52 > 1:54:55Minister has recognised there are problems in the system. We all want

1:54:55 > 1:54:59to work together to fix those. The nature of an agile system is that it

1:54:59 > 1:55:04changes all the time in response to people using it. That is how he

1:55:04 > 1:55:08learned and improve the system. We have a releasing evidence of that.

1:55:08 > 1:55:11The Prime Minister highlighted one specific example yesterday in her

1:55:11 > 1:55:16answer where she says, actually we have seen the number of people who

1:55:16 > 1:55:20are in arrears while they are on Universal Credit already go down by

1:55:20 > 1:55:23significant numbers in the last four months. I think the number is a

1:55:23 > 1:55:27third. That is evidence that this system is improving as it is being

1:55:27 > 1:55:32rolled out. It is a very slow roll-out that is taking nine years

1:55:32 > 1:55:35altogether. And I think we need to recognise, just as we recognise that

1:55:35 > 1:55:38there are issues that have been rightly highlighted in this chamber,

1:55:38 > 1:55:43I hope they are highlighted in a serious fashion. It is also right to

1:55:43 > 1:55:46recognise the real work and the progress that the Government has

1:55:46 > 1:55:49already done in addressing some of the serious issues and I do hope

1:55:49 > 1:55:54that they will do more as well. Now, some of the members here have been

1:55:54 > 1:56:00incredibly critical in their time and I find that wrong in this

1:56:00 > 1:56:07debate. This is a very serious debate. We are here because we care

1:56:07 > 1:56:13about our constituents. Now, I am a very privileged person and I am the

1:56:13 > 1:56:17first person to say that I have never had to rely on benefits. I'm

1:56:17 > 1:56:20sure that some of the members opposite have not had to rely on

1:56:20 > 1:56:25benefits either. But that does not include any of this from having the

1:56:25 > 1:56:28compassion and empathy are people that are in that situation. That is

1:56:28 > 1:56:35why I have been to my Jobcentre and that is why I have spent a very long

1:56:35 > 1:56:39time discussing with the social landlords, the people that work in

1:56:39 > 1:56:43debt counselling, and the staff in the Jobcentre themselves. And I

1:56:43 > 1:56:50don't actually recognise the stories I have heard about the Jobcentres,

1:56:50 > 1:56:55because in my constituency in Redditch, I heard first-hand from

1:56:55 > 1:56:57people in the Jobcentre working, about how hard they are working to

1:56:57 > 1:57:02support the most vulnerable customers through their journeys and

1:57:02 > 1:57:06they are proud to do that. They have a policy there that they will give

1:57:06 > 1:57:11those advance payments by default. They are not forcing people to ask

1:57:11 > 1:57:15for them, they are working hard on an individual basis with a tailored

1:57:15 > 1:57:22package of support, to every single claimant.I have been on JFK and I

1:57:22 > 1:57:31know what it is like -- jobseeker's allowance. Universal Credit I'm

1:57:31 > 1:57:37seeing on a daily basis... But we know that children are suffering and

1:57:37 > 1:57:41go hungry for weeks and that is the testimony of people in this job

1:57:41 > 1:57:48centres.I have no doubt that the Minister will comment on that but

1:57:48 > 1:57:52that is not the test me I heard first-hand in my Jobcentre in

1:57:52 > 1:57:56Redditch. They told me that they care about their customers and want

1:57:56 > 1:58:00to get the help they need and are proud to provide that help to

1:58:00 > 1:58:04people. I would just finished by saying that I note that we have

1:58:04 > 1:58:08heard about some of these landlords that are sending landlords to their

1:58:08 > 1:58:13tenants who are potentially going on to Universal Credit. Really, I think

1:58:13 > 1:58:18that is absolutely unacceptable behaviour of those landlords, those

1:58:18 > 1:58:23private landlords doing that. I thank you it is very -- I think it

1:58:23 > 1:58:27is very irresponsible to be raising this issue from the privileged

1:58:27 > 1:58:32position he has. I think it is irresponsible to do that without

1:58:32 > 1:58:36condemning that behaviour. That is the behaviour he should be

1:58:36 > 1:58:42condemning from those landlords. There are also ways, just as we have

1:58:42 > 1:58:49seen support for social landlords to have those rent payments made

1:58:49 > 1:58:53directly to the landlords, there is also were going on within the

1:58:53 > 1:58:56private rented sector ought to bring that support to those tenants. We

1:58:56 > 1:59:03must bring that support.She makes a very valid point about the landlord

1:59:03 > 1:59:09and indeed myself and the honourable member in front of me will be

1:59:09 > 1:59:12meeting with a social landlord tomorrow. I do think it will be a

1:59:12 > 1:59:17matter that in due course, ministers but at the Holyrood level and at

1:59:17 > 1:59:20Westminster should look at. I cannot think of the modus operandi, it is

1:59:20 > 1:59:27not the right to me at the state at all.I will finish by saying that we

1:59:27 > 1:59:32all work together proactively across the entire system, that is very

1:59:32 > 1:59:39important. Landlords of course have a stake in this. They told me in

1:59:39 > 1:59:41Redditch that yes people are in arrears when they go in, that they

1:59:41 > 1:59:45do not have a single case of people being evicted. They will not be

1:59:45 > 1:59:48evicting people, but instead they will be putting the port in place

1:59:48 > 1:59:56for those vulnerable tenants.If what I read in the media is true,

1:59:56 > 2:00:00then the Government are planning to reduce the six-week wait to four

2:00:00 > 2:00:05weeks. And I do hope the Minister will be able to confirm this.

2:00:05 > 2:00:11However, although this change is welcome, it does not go far enough.

2:00:11 > 2:00:15The single parent charity, Gingerbread, I found that one third

2:00:15 > 2:00:20of single parents were in debt before Universal Credit. And when

2:00:20 > 2:00:26parents were travelling, Universal Credit puts them at risk of more

2:00:26 > 2:00:33hardship. Gingerbread recommends more, including a delay to a first

2:00:33 > 2:00:35payment, including communication of advance payments, introducing longer

2:00:35 > 2:00:42repayment plans, and importantly, removing options for fun at the

2:00:42 > 2:00:45payments are those most in need. Whilst I appreciate the intention

2:00:45 > 2:00:51behind Universal Credit, that it is to emulate the world of work with a

2:00:51 > 2:00:56payment method which reflects the manner in which monthly paid workers

2:00:56 > 2:00:59are remunerated, I think we should take a step back from this and

2:00:59 > 2:01:03consider that many people in receipt of Universal Credit are in dire

2:01:03 > 2:01:08financial circumstances and that perhaps trying to emulate the world

2:01:08 > 2:01:12of work is just a shade too ambitious for the second stanzas in

2:01:12 > 2:01:21which many claimants find themselves. -- circumstances.

2:01:21 > 2:01:27Preparation for the world of work could be incorporated into the

2:01:27 > 2:01:33support services to reach laymen. This can be tailored to each claim

2:01:33 > 2:01:35on individual issues. Other charities also recommend reducing

2:01:35 > 2:01:43the current six-week wait for a first payment to two weeks, such as

2:01:43 > 2:01:47the child poverty action group and the citizens advice bureau. I have

2:01:47 > 2:01:49tabled several questions on Universal Credit, and one of them

2:01:49 > 2:01:55has consented an issue raised with me by a CAD work in Hayward in my

2:01:55 > 2:02:00constituency. It is that if they Universal Credit claimant makes an

2:02:00 > 2:02:02online application they must also arrange an appointment with the

2:02:02 > 2:02:10Jobcentre and a failure to do so in invalidates that claim. Failure to

2:02:10 > 2:02:21this is a very common reason for applications decline. And so killing

2:02:21 > 2:02:23the debt and despair that some clients find themselves in. They

2:02:23 > 2:02:28will soon be implementing the option of a text message reminder and will

2:02:28 > 2:02:36also be reviewing their requirements on the online orientation processors

2:02:36 > 2:02:39to make sure all the requirements are as clear as possible for all

2:02:39 > 2:02:50claimants. Another issue is that... Is to replace that of working tax

2:02:50 > 2:02:54credits to entitle children to free school meals. The answer I received

2:02:54 > 2:02:57from the department was that no decision had yet been taken or

2:02:57 > 2:03:01stopped and I cried, our proposals on this matter will be announced in

2:03:01 > 2:03:10due course. I -- quote. I hope the Minister might be able to provide

2:03:10 > 2:03:18some clarity on this. The Government continually repeats its mantra of

2:03:18 > 2:03:22test, learn, rectify. The question I would ask is why do they feel it is

2:03:22 > 2:03:36appropriate to carry out tests on the most bon vulnerable in our

2:03:36 > 2:03:39society. When are they starting to rectify the damage it has a ready

2:03:39 > 2:03:46been done?I begin by congratulating my honourable friend and fellow

2:03:46 > 2:03:51Scottish Conservative on his excellent maiden speech. I also

2:03:51 > 2:03:54express my appreciation to the Minister of State for his

2:03:54 > 2:03:58attentiveness and attentive to detail is unsurpassed. To be clear,

2:03:58 > 2:04:04I'm speaking as an avid supporter of Universal Credit and someone fully

2:04:04 > 2:04:08vested in the success of Universal Credit in my constituency. I will

2:04:08 > 2:04:14not rehearse the argument in favour of welfare reform in general or

2:04:14 > 2:04:16Universal Credit specifically. I have already is broken twice on this

2:04:16 > 2:04:20matter in recent weeks. Instead, I wish to refer ruefully to certain

2:04:20 > 2:04:28aspects of the select affairs committee... The first matter I wish

2:04:28 > 2:04:34to draw attention to is found on page three producing a robust

2:04:34 > 2:04:40statistical analysis on the impact of Universal Credit. I endorse this.

2:04:40 > 2:04:43When I asked a written question last month about average times for

2:04:43 > 2:04:48claimants waiting to receive their first payments from completion of

2:04:48 > 2:04:51the claims admission to Universal Credit being paid into their bank

2:04:51 > 2:04:56account, I was told we do not hold this information. This is something

2:04:56 > 2:05:00surprising to me as someone who subscribes to the principle that

2:05:00 > 2:05:04performance is measured and performances improved. When

2:05:04 > 2:05:09performance is measured and reported back the rate of performance

2:05:09 > 2:05:22improves is I am concerned about the level of repayment. But the level of

2:05:22 > 2:05:28repayment should consider matters such as claimants existing benefits

2:05:28 > 2:05:31and other debt repayments. I wonder if they should not be a higher

2:05:31 > 2:05:35minimum perhaps than which we currently work with the low which

2:05:35 > 2:05:39payments will not be extracted. I had a case of a constituent that

2:05:39 > 2:05:44after repayments was left with only £61 for a month. Can there be some

2:05:44 > 2:05:50additional discretion given to DWP staff on repayments, especially when

2:05:50 > 2:05:54our overpayments have occurred especially due to acknowledge DWP

2:05:54 > 2:06:01errors. The Government plan to reduce the stand waiting time to one

2:06:01 > 2:06:05month, and I concur with that recommendation. I hope the Minister

2:06:05 > 2:06:08will reflect on this recommendation. Of course I accept that this comes

2:06:08 > 2:06:14with a cost. These are budgetary considerations and this is public

2:06:14 > 2:06:17money which can't be spent twice. But this is also a matter of

2:06:17 > 2:06:27compassion. And experience of sterling CAD is consistent with half

2:06:27 > 2:06:31of middle income families have no savings and less than half a month

2:06:31 > 2:06:37's money. I continue to have concerns about the application

2:06:37 > 2:06:42process especially in rural areas, online. And the difficulties that

2:06:42 > 2:06:50applicants who are homeless and have alcohol and drug addiction issues or

2:06:50 > 2:06:54have no online facilities to make claim or have mental health issues.

2:06:54 > 2:07:00Anxiety and bipolar disorders. Is there an application can be used in

2:07:00 > 2:07:02extraordinary circumstances to help address the needs of a small

2:07:02 > 2:07:07minority of people who have genuine anxiety about the digital system? I

2:07:07 > 2:07:12would further ask the Minister did consider allowing DWP staff to have

2:07:12 > 2:07:17the option of having rent paid directly to their landlord. I was so

2:07:17 > 2:07:24asked if the Minister could consider widening the circle of trusted

2:07:24 > 2:07:29advisers, those who have direct contact with WP staff to have

2:07:29 > 2:07:34individual needs that can be carefully managed. In closing, may I

2:07:34 > 2:07:38speak of the regard and respect I have the right honourable member of

2:07:38 > 2:07:47Birkenhead and a member of his select and asked the member to...

2:07:47 > 2:07:50I will not take lessons from that side about how angry we should be on

2:07:50 > 2:07:56this issue. We are anticipating the suffering, or we are experiencing

2:07:56 > 2:08:00suffering in our communities. This debate and all the expressions of

2:08:00 > 2:08:04concern around the shambolic system lead me to one question - what would

2:08:04 > 2:08:10it take for the government to pause this roll-out? When you have all of

2:08:10 > 2:08:14the advice services, experts, local authorities, housing associations,

2:08:14 > 2:08:16private landlords and landlord associations saying this system is

2:08:16 > 2:08:21too riddled with problems to continue with safety, and you still

2:08:21 > 2:08:25choose to ignore their pleas, what does it say about the people in

2:08:25 > 2:08:31charge? This is an in work benefit as much as it is an out of work

2:08:31 > 2:08:36benefit. It is so predictable that the Conservatives would use it a

2:08:36 > 2:08:39dividing tactic, creating the dangerous myth about those who can't

2:08:39 > 2:08:43be bothered to work against those who can, the strivers versus

2:08:43 > 2:08:48shirkers rhetoric. Universal Credit is about those who work as well as

2:08:48 > 2:08:54not. If this government lasts, and at the moment it appears as if it is

2:08:54 > 2:09:00a big if, 7.2 million people will be on Universal Credit by 2022. Half of

2:09:00 > 2:09:09those will be in work. The system is a scandal. There are too many issues

2:09:09 > 2:09:14to raise, but I will highlight some of the most important. The

2:09:14 > 2:09:18word-macro has been mentioned. People should not have to wait six

2:09:18 > 2:09:22weeks. The system embeds financial crisis from day one and if it is

2:09:22 > 2:09:25announced in the Budget that there will be a reduction in waiting time

2:09:25 > 2:09:31by one week or even two, do not be surprised if there are not cheers

2:09:31 > 2:09:33all celebrations from the organisations supporting people,

2:09:33 > 2:09:36because they know it is only a government tactic to release

2:09:36 > 2:09:41political pressure on themselves. Let's move on to the other problems.

2:09:41 > 2:09:47Advance payments are not a solution. They are calculated at 50% of the

2:09:47 > 2:09:51claimant's entire amount and they have to be repaid in six months and

2:09:51 > 2:10:00they exacerbate debt.Was she give way?Absolutely not! The enhanced

2:10:00 > 2:10:05disability premium is callous and part of a wider agenda of reducing

2:10:05 > 2:10:11the welfare budget and will lead to disabled people being worse off.

2:10:11 > 2:10:16Direct payment of the claimant or creating rent arrears. As of

2:10:16 > 2:10:21yesterday, a company in my constituency said 75% of people on

2:10:21 > 2:10:29Universal Credit are already on rent arrears of £810, because the wait

2:10:29 > 2:10:33period and the financial demands on my constituents are too high. Rent

2:10:33 > 2:10:39is paid in advance, Universal Credit in arrears. Not to mention the

2:10:39 > 2:10:42issues about those who are terminally ill having to go to the

2:10:42 > 2:10:48Jobcentre themselves because they will not give explicit content. I am

2:10:48 > 2:10:51deeply concerned that the government is rolling this out in my

2:10:51 > 2:10:56constituency on the 13th of December. The expected this payment

2:10:56 > 2:11:01is the 28th of January. Who said this roll-out date? Why did this get

2:11:01 > 2:11:05signed off? These points are just the headlines. I could go on and on

2:11:05 > 2:11:09about the serious flaws of Universal Credit. The government have had all

2:11:09 > 2:11:15of the warning they need. They are now choosing to inflict

2:11:15 > 2:11:18Frankenstein's monster of a system with little or no regard for the

2:11:18 > 2:11:22well-being of people up and down this country. I do not know how

2:11:22 > 2:11:33people rolling this out sleep at night.Thank you, Mr Speaker. I

2:11:33 > 2:11:36welcome the constructive comments from both sides of the House about

2:11:36 > 2:11:40Universal Credit. I have set up an all-party group to work with members

2:11:40 > 2:11:45on all sides of the house and I welcome those with concerns on every

2:11:45 > 2:11:49bench joining that group so that we can look seriously at all the

2:11:49 > 2:11:53problems that are besetting Universal Credit. I'm afraid the

2:11:53 > 2:11:59six-week wait is just the start. It is the start of a horrendous time

2:11:59 > 2:12:04for anyone claiming Universal Credit. It covers housing costs. In

2:12:04 > 2:12:06my constituency, local housing allowance for a three bedroomed

2:12:06 > 2:12:12house for a family is £150 a week. You get a seven-day weight where you

2:12:12 > 2:12:18get no payments, so that is £150 down to start with. It is paid in

2:12:18 > 2:12:22arrears. Your rent is paid in advance, as honourable friends have

2:12:22 > 2:12:28said. So you are £750 in arrears before you even start receiving your

2:12:28 > 2:12:32Universal Credit. That is wrong and that is where all these arrears are

2:12:32 > 2:12:37coming from. It is not people on low pay who can't manage, it is a system

2:12:37 > 2:12:43that doesn't take account of the realities of their lives. When I

2:12:43 > 2:12:46mentioned the six-week wait to the minister on Monday and pointed out

2:12:46 > 2:12:52that it was six weeks from Monday until Christmas Day, that those who

2:12:52 > 2:12:55are receiving Universal Credit who are applying for it this week we'll

2:12:55 > 2:13:01have to wait over six weeks, till after Christmas, before receiving

2:13:01 > 2:13:06their payment, they will have just two weeks of pay to get by on over

2:13:06 > 2:13:12those six weeks. Services will not be open over Christmas. I appreciate

2:13:12 > 2:13:17that the government want to wait for a Budget in order to take action,

2:13:17 > 2:13:21but people who are waiting for money over Christmas, families who will be

2:13:21 > 2:13:28able to afford no sort of Christmas, need the government to act now and

2:13:28 > 2:13:32to make sure they can receive the payments they need to feed their

2:13:32 > 2:13:37children and give them a decent Christmas. When I asked the minister

2:13:37 > 2:13:41this question on Monday, he suggested that people could get more

2:13:41 > 2:13:45hours of work in the run-up to Christmas. And there are many

2:13:45 > 2:13:50employers who are seeking additional people to do overtime. Having worked

2:13:50 > 2:13:54for many years for the shop workers union, I can testify that lots of

2:13:54 > 2:13:59people rely on their overtime in the run-up to Christmas. Under tax

2:13:59 > 2:14:02credit system is, that is perfectly reasonable. They receive the pay

2:14:02 > 2:14:07that they get of the day, because there is an income disregard in tax

2:14:07 > 2:14:13credits, whereas if your income is increased for £50 a week on average,

2:14:13 > 2:14:18you don't lose any tax credits. There is nothing of that sort under

2:14:18 > 2:14:22Universal Credit. For every pound you earn extra in overtime under

2:14:22 > 2:14:30Universal Credit, you lose at least 63p off your next Universal Credit

2:14:30 > 2:14:34payment. Families who go into doing overtime in good faith, as advised

2:14:34 > 2:14:38by the minister, will find that next month, their Universal Credit

2:14:38 > 2:14:46payments will be falling by 63% or even 75% of the overtime they have

2:14:46 > 2:14:51earned by the time they get their next Universal Credit payment. That

2:14:51 > 2:14:55does not help them cover the costs of Christmas. It does not help them

2:14:55 > 2:15:09stay out of debt. I am suggesting that you reduce the taper rate and

2:15:09 > 2:15:13pay attention to the realities of people's lives under a monthly

2:15:13 > 2:15:19benefit system that hates them hard as soon as they earn any extra. That

2:15:19 > 2:15:23is an earnings disincentive and that is what we have at the moment that

2:15:23 > 2:15:26government must look at and make sure that passporting benefits come

2:15:26 > 2:15:35to everyone.Order. Neil Coyle. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is the

2:15:35 > 2:15:42start of the work on this matter. Universal Credit has been a

2:15:42 > 2:15:46disaster. Anyone who looks at the original plan cannot conclude

2:15:46 > 2:15:51anything other. It should have been finished being rolled out this year.

2:15:51 > 2:15:55Instead, it reaches 10% but has done £10,000 of damage to those affected.