20/11/2017

0:00:00 > 0:00:02question, Gordon Marsden. -- cooperation and good humour.

0:00:14 > 0:00:20Mr Speaker, although the November recess...He needs to blot out the

0:00:20 > 0:00:31request for a statement. -- blurt. To make a statement on the Student

0:00:31 > 0:00:39Loans Company.Thank you. The Student Loans Company's performance

0:00:39 > 0:00:46has improved year-on-year for the past six years. SLC services account

0:00:46 > 0:00:50for around 1.8 million applications per year. It responds to around 4.5

0:00:50 > 0:00:55million phone calls from borrowers and has over 6 million repaying

0:00:55 > 0:01:02order to repay customers with loans totalling more than £100 billion. In

0:01:02 > 0:01:04addition, it has delivered a range of new products for Government on

0:01:04 > 0:01:09time and successfully. This includes postgraduate loans and to provide

0:01:09 > 0:01:15advanced learner loans. This year, the SLC has processed over 1.4

0:01:15 > 0:01:21million applications for student funding. So far in this academic

0:01:21 > 0:01:26year, SLC has paid out approximately £2.5 billion in maintenance funding

0:01:26 > 0:01:31and £2 billion in tuition fee payments to providers. Customer

0:01:31 > 0:01:38satisfaction remains high, at around 85%. And for borrowers in repayment,

0:01:38 > 0:01:44at around 72%. It receives complaints, Mr Speaker, from just

0:01:44 > 0:01:520.1% of its 4.7 million customers. SLC is of course constantly looking

0:01:52 > 0:01:56to learn lessons from what is a low level of complaints and to use these

0:01:56 > 0:02:02complaints to improve the quality of its services. In addition, the

0:02:02 > 0:02:04Department for Education is also working closely with the Student

0:02:04 > 0:02:07Loans Company on a range of initiatives that will further

0:02:07 > 0:02:11improve the user experience for SLC's borrowers and staff

0:02:11 > 0:02:16engagement. Proposals currently being developed include greater

0:02:16 > 0:02:21digitisation of the student loan application and repayments processes

0:02:21 > 0:02:28and investment in more efficient SLC systems. Following two independent

0:02:28 > 0:02:30investigations into allegations about aspects of his management and

0:02:30 > 0:02:35leadership, the SLC has terminated Stephen Mooney's contract as Chief

0:02:35 > 0:02:45Executive Officer of the SLC. -- Steve Lainey. Having taken into

0:02:45 > 0:02:47account the findings of these investigations, they concluded that

0:02:47 > 0:02:55the best practice was not being upheld by Steve Lainey initial. The

0:02:55 > 0:03:02SLC board have acted swiftly and have instituted Peter Lerner as

0:03:02 > 0:03:07interim CEO with effect from the 27th of November. He will remain in

0:03:07 > 0:03:14post until a permanent appointment is made. He was formerly chief

0:03:14 > 0:03:18Executive of the Institute for apprenticeships and the skills

0:03:18 > 0:03:21funding agency. He has a long and successful career in a number of

0:03:21 > 0:03:26senior leadership positions in the Department for Education and partner

0:03:26 > 0:03:28organisations. I have every confidence he will provide the drive

0:03:28 > 0:03:33and stability the Student Loans Company requires at this time as we

0:03:33 > 0:03:39recruit a permanent chief Executive. Although the November recess, with

0:03:39 > 0:03:52the announcement being snuck out day as there was a resignation from the

0:03:52 > 0:03:56Cabinet. Can I ask the Minister Y in his letter to me on the 17th of

0:03:56 > 0:03:59October, sent six weeks after I wrote to him on the SLC, the

0:03:59 > 0:04:05minister referred to the suspension of the chief Executive as a neutral

0:04:05 > 0:04:08act and did not imply wrongdoing, when he was fully aware of

0:04:08 > 0:04:12allegations against Steve Lainey engine when the Mac as is written

0:04:12 > 0:04:17reply to me. We also publish the former 's review of the SLC given

0:04:17 > 0:04:20two months before the suspension, where Steve Lainey was rated

0:04:20 > 0:04:28outstanding. In that report, was a minister -- the Minister aware that

0:04:28 > 0:04:32there was a reporter said he was making a real and positive

0:04:32 > 0:04:36difference the Student Loans Company and was a popular leader before the

0:04:36 > 0:04:42decision was made to sack him? Will republish the internal

0:04:42 > 0:04:44investigation, in which 5258 allegations against him were

0:04:44 > 0:04:47dismissed. So that all members can understand the issues at the SLC. Mr

0:04:47 > 0:04:51Speaker, who appointed the chairperson and the other three

0:04:51 > 0:04:55board members of the SLC and what other criteria processes for those

0:04:55 > 0:05:02appointments? And you confirm that Simon Devonshire, the board member

0:05:02 > 0:05:08who had an dismissed the appeal, is also a member of the same venture

0:05:08 > 0:05:14capital trust?

0:05:14 > 0:05:20The lack of proper cooperation between the SLC and HMRC has led to

0:05:20 > 0:05:25significant debt.Can he tell us how many overpayments there have been

0:05:25 > 0:05:32since 2015, 2016? Given this is the situation, I have just been told the

0:05:32 > 0:05:35government has tacitly admitted their failure in this area by saying

0:05:35 > 0:05:41that from 2019 onwards, HMRC and the SLC will co-operate on this matter.

0:05:41 > 0:05:45It does not address the question of Mr Lamy and the permanent secretary

0:05:45 > 0:05:52at the HMRC blaming each other on this issue. Mr Lamy has claimed he

0:05:52 > 0:05:56had asked for updates that HMRC would not share. Who is telling the

0:05:56 > 0:06:03truth? BBC Panorama raised issues about private dividers were students

0:06:03 > 0:06:06are fraudulently enrolled in courses in order to claim loans. How much

0:06:06 > 0:06:13money has been paid to students who were subsequently declared to be

0:06:13 > 0:06:17ineligible in their last four or five years? What mechanisms are in

0:06:17 > 0:06:22place to reclaim the money? In the light of all this, will the

0:06:22 > 0:06:27government suspend the sale of the future student loan book? Interest

0:06:27 > 0:06:33rate thresholds on student debt will cost £175 million by 2020. Can he

0:06:33 > 0:06:38tell us where the money will come from? With tens of thousands of

0:06:38 > 0:06:42graduates footing the bill for SLC areas, what confidence can the

0:06:42 > 0:06:46Parliament have in the confidence of this minister who is the key

0:06:46 > 0:06:52shareholder of the Student Loans Company?Mr Speaker, I would

0:06:52 > 0:06:57encourage the honourable member not to denigrate the hard work of the

0:06:57 > 0:07:01dedicated public servants of the Student Loans Company who are

0:07:01 > 0:07:07undertaking a vital task in securing the finance which young people and

0:07:07 > 0:07:11learners in this country need to pursue higher education. They are

0:07:11 > 0:07:19doing so in a successful way. Fewer than 0.1% of SLC's 4.7 million

0:07:19 > 0:07:23customers complained each year. They are delivering an important service

0:07:23 > 0:07:30and he should support them rather than run them down. Mr Speaker, the

0:07:30 > 0:07:33honourable member asked about a number of matters. He asked about

0:07:33 > 0:07:41the investigations that led to the dismissal of the chief executive of

0:07:41 > 0:07:46the Student Loans Company. The concerns were brought to the SLC

0:07:46 > 0:07:53board's attention in May and to the attention of the Department for

0:07:53 > 0:07:58Education. We learnt about this in May. I learn about it in May, as I

0:07:58 > 0:08:04have just said. The two investigations were immediately set

0:08:04 > 0:08:08in motion to get to the bottom of the allegations which the SLC board

0:08:08 > 0:08:14had received. One was led by the government internal audit agency and

0:08:14 > 0:08:18the other was led by Sir Paul Jenkins, formerly Treasury Solicitor

0:08:18 > 0:08:23and head of the government legal services. They concluded that Mr

0:08:23 > 0:08:27Laney had not shown the leadership which would be expected of someone

0:08:27 > 0:08:33in that role and accordingly the SLC board took the decision that he

0:08:33 > 0:08:36should no longer continue in that role and the Department for

0:08:36 > 0:08:41Education as a consequence of the SLC's decision took the decision to

0:08:41 > 0:08:48relieve him of his responsibilities as accounting officer of the SLC. Mr

0:08:48 > 0:08:52Speaker, the honourable member asked about an eligible payments, some of

0:08:52 > 0:08:55which were highlighted by the Panorama programme that came out a

0:08:55 > 0:09:00few days ago. He will be, I am sure, interested to know that the level of

0:09:00 > 0:09:04ineligible payments made to alternative providers has been

0:09:04 > 0:09:11sharply falling in recent years. In fact, it has fallen by over 80%

0:09:11 > 0:09:21since 2012, 2013, from about 4% of all payments to 0.5% of all payments

0:09:21 > 0:09:28in the 2015-16 year. This rate is low. Of course we want to eliminate

0:09:28 > 0:09:33fraud wherever we can identify it, but this is a low rate of ineligible

0:09:33 > 0:09:38payments to these providers. In fact, it is a rate which is now no

0:09:38 > 0:09:46higher than the average across the other higher education funding

0:09:46 > 0:09:50system. I would not use this as a means of running down the new

0:09:50 > 0:09:54entrance to our higher education system, which is something he often

0:09:54 > 0:09:58does from the dispatch box because it cannot be used to support that

0:09:58 > 0:10:02sort of attack. This reduction in the level of ineligible payments is

0:10:02 > 0:10:11the direct consequence of the controls which the Department for

0:10:11 > 0:10:13Education have been putting in place to ensure that public money is not

0:10:13 > 0:10:21abuse. Mr Speaker, we do take the issue of overpayments extremely

0:10:21 > 0:10:23seriously and the honourable member mentioned some of the steps we are

0:10:23 > 0:10:32taking. We do want to see close and effective cooperation between HMRC

0:10:32 > 0:10:37and SLC so that we avoid the risk to the extent we possibly can of

0:10:37 > 0:10:42students overpaying when they repaid. I understand that the

0:10:42 > 0:10:46Chancellor of the Exchequer will be considering this issue further in

0:10:46 > 0:10:50the budget just later this week so he might want to wait a bit to see

0:10:50 > 0:10:55what is in the contents of the budget for further details. We are

0:10:55 > 0:10:59committed to improving the interface between HMRC and the Student Loans

0:10:59 > 0:11:04Company. I would remind him that we do ensure that all borrowers as they

0:11:04 > 0:11:08enter the last two years of their repayments are given the opportunity

0:11:08 > 0:11:13to move to a direct debit system of repayments and eliminate almost all

0:11:13 > 0:11:20risk altogether of repayment.Mr Robert Halfon. Thank you, Mr

0:11:20 > 0:11:24Speaker. I welcome the efforts the Minister is taking to reform the

0:11:24 > 0:11:31Student Loans Company and he will know that there is a value for money

0:11:31 > 0:11:34enquiry into universities. As well as looking at the management of the

0:11:34 > 0:11:38student loan company, can he use this opportunity to look at reducing

0:11:38 > 0:11:42the rate of interest rates for students which is much higher than

0:11:42 > 0:11:49other countries in the developed world?Well, we keep all aspects of

0:11:49 > 0:11:52our student finance system under review to ensure it is fair and

0:11:52 > 0:11:57effective, it is meeting our core objectives of removing financial

0:11:57 > 0:12:00barriers to access, funding our university system fairly and sharing

0:12:00 > 0:12:10the cost of doing so equally between us and the taxpayer. It is to be

0:12:10 > 0:12:13compared with unsecured, personal borrowings. If you look at what a

0:12:13 > 0:12:17Bank of England reference rate would be for an unsecured, personal

0:12:17 > 0:12:24borrowing, it would be well over 7%. This is a unique product written off

0:12:24 > 0:12:28after 30 years. It is only entering the repayment period when someone is

0:12:28 > 0:12:34earning more than £25,000. It is a unique product and it is not easy to

0:12:34 > 0:12:37compare any element of it with offerings from elsewhere in the

0:12:37 > 0:12:45commercial sector.In recent years the student loan company has been

0:12:45 > 0:12:52plagued by mishaps, complaints of inefficient bureaucracy and poor

0:12:52 > 0:12:57customer service. The latest SLC sell-off is a problem. Many

0:12:57 > 0:12:59graduates received letters telling them they must pay even though their

0:12:59 > 0:13:04earnings had not yet reached repayment level. Can the Minister

0:13:04 > 0:13:10confirm that they will not siphon loans off to a third party? Devolved

0:13:10 > 0:13:14administrations are shareholders in the SLC. Can the Minister outlined

0:13:14 > 0:13:18the discussion he has had with fellow shareholders on the

0:13:18 > 0:13:20circumstances of the dismissal of the Chief Executive of that

0:13:20 > 0:13:28committee? Over 1400 people are employed by the SLC in Glasgow. Can

0:13:28 > 0:13:31the government confirmed that any shake-up of practices will not

0:13:31 > 0:13:36involve a plan to move any part of the company from Glasgow and that

0:13:36 > 0:13:39all employees will have an opportunity to be consulted in any

0:13:39 > 0:13:46future discussions? At a time where graduates are paying up to 6.1% in

0:13:46 > 0:13:52low interest, student debt in England has nearly trebled compared

0:13:52 > 0:13:58to Scotland. Does the Minister not think that while the SLC could use a

0:13:58 > 0:14:02radical shake-up and reform, his policies could as well. The budget

0:14:02 > 0:14:06is round the corner, so while the minister works to clear up the

0:14:06 > 0:14:10managerial problems, why does he not clear up the mess of this policy and

0:14:10 > 0:14:13stop saddling English students with a millstone of debt around their

0:14:13 > 0:14:19necks?I am not sure we need lessons from Scotland on our higher

0:14:19 > 0:14:24education policy. Our higher education policies have resulted in

0:14:24 > 0:14:28levels of access for people from disadvantaged backgrounds that

0:14:28 > 0:14:33should be the envy of members on that bench rather than a source of

0:14:33 > 0:14:37criticism of them. The honourable member asks about Glasgow and the

0:14:37 > 0:14:42work that SLC staff to front its location in Glasgow. Of course that

0:14:42 > 0:14:46is valued and we support everything they are doing in ensuring the SLC

0:14:46 > 0:14:51continues to perform at the level we wanted to perform as an important

0:14:51 > 0:14:56agency of the Department for Education. It is in its sixth

0:14:56 > 0:14:59consecutive year of improvement in terms of its operational metrics and

0:14:59 > 0:15:02we want that to continue and I am sure Glasgow will play its part in

0:15:02 > 0:15:09that.Would the Minister like to explain what role the new office for

0:15:09 > 0:15:17students will play in this and hope it will help?The new office for

0:15:17 > 0:15:22students comes into existence progressively from January one 2018

0:15:22 > 0:15:27onwards, with its full operational existence commencing in April of

0:15:27 > 0:15:322018. The Student Loans Company has its own statutory existence

0:15:32 > 0:15:37independent of that of the office for students and it will continue to

0:15:37 > 0:15:41carry out the vital function we need to perform in ensuring loans we make

0:15:41 > 0:15:46available to remove barriers to access to higher education continued

0:15:46 > 0:15:52to be made available seamlessly to students in need of them.Looking at

0:15:52 > 0:15:56all these very academic colleagues and my eye focuses on Doctor Roberta

0:15:56 > 0:16:03Blackman Woods.Thank you, Mr Speaker. I hope the Minister

0:16:03 > 0:16:07appreciates that problems at the SLC go beyond the actions or lack of

0:16:07 > 0:16:11them of the previous chief executive. The Jenkins report

0:16:11 > 0:16:16pointed to bad behaviour amongst the whole executive leadership team.

0:16:16 > 0:16:21Could he tell us what that bad behaviour is? How long has he known

0:16:21 > 0:16:28about it? What action is being taken to stop it?The SLC board has taken

0:16:28 > 0:16:32prompt action to address shortcomings in the leadership of

0:16:32 > 0:16:37the student loan company that were identified in the two investigations

0:16:37 > 0:16:46that I mentioned. That includes the report by Sir Paul Jenkins. I have

0:16:46 > 0:16:51every confidence in the new chief executive we have put in place,

0:16:51 > 0:16:55Peter Lerner, who has worked successfully across a range of DFE

0:16:55 > 0:17:00partnership organisations, will do the job that we need him to do.

0:17:00 > 0:17:07Jeremy Quinn.Picking up on the minister's reply about the office of

0:17:07 > 0:17:13students, what role does he see it play in value for money?Of course

0:17:13 > 0:17:18value for money is a critical part of our reforms and have been since

0:17:18 > 0:17:21the green paper and a white paper and the higher education and

0:17:21 > 0:17:28research act. We want them to hold the universities to account for the

0:17:28 > 0:17:33income they receive from the SLC and to ensure students are made aware of

0:17:33 > 0:17:37where the best teaching is available across the system and were really

0:17:37 > 0:17:43good outcomes are emanating from. We want that to be clearer to students

0:17:43 > 0:17:47so they can make informed choices about where to study so the

0:17:47 > 0:17:56universities can be held to account for the use of public resources.And

0:17:56 > 0:18:04external audit into the SLC found it was in the bottom of all

0:18:04 > 0:18:07organisations on 36 criteria against which it was assessed. Can the

0:18:07 > 0:18:16Minister tell us what these criteria were?I cannot tell him the precise

0:18:16 > 0:18:19criteria. What I can tell him is this is an organisation which has

0:18:19 > 0:18:25steadily improved from the one we inherited as a coalition government

0:18:25 > 0:18:29back in 2010. It is in its sixth consecutive year of performance

0:18:29 > 0:18:34improvement and that is something we should be celebrating. No one is

0:18:34 > 0:18:38denying all organisations have room for improvement. We want to work

0:18:38 > 0:18:43with the SLC to ensure that steps are taken to improve the interface

0:18:43 > 0:18:50between HMRC and itself.Does the Minister agree with me that it is

0:18:50 > 0:18:54imperative that university students get value for money, but also that

0:18:54 > 0:18:57they are able to see where their money goes and both of these will be

0:18:57 > 0:19:02promoted by the office for students that will launch on January one?I

0:19:02 > 0:19:07am happy to confirm that. We are consulting on the new regulatory

0:19:07 > 0:19:12framework at the office for students will use. One of the things we are

0:19:12 > 0:19:16consulting on is how we can make it clearer to students how their

0:19:16 > 0:19:22tuition fee income is being used within institutions so they can be

0:19:22 > 0:19:25confident and government can be confident and it is supporting the

0:19:25 > 0:19:30core activities we intended to be useful, namely teaching, producing

0:19:30 > 0:19:33world-class research and helping students go on to get great outcomes

0:19:33 > 0:19:37in the of work.

0:19:37 > 0:19:43I have huge sympathy for him, not least because he has such a

0:19:43 > 0:19:55fantastic something, -- surname. But I have also been on his shows. Given

0:19:55 > 0:20:01the failure colleagues validity of the SLC, it is important the House

0:20:01 > 0:20:10understands how often the Minister has met with the senior team. Would

0:20:10 > 0:20:16he put out a list of these meetings so the appropriate enquiries can be

0:20:16 > 0:20:21made?I would be happy to do that. But I want to remind the right

0:20:21 > 0:20:24honourable member that this is a successful organisation in many ways

0:20:24 > 0:20:31and we should not denigrated. Members of doing a massive

0:20:31 > 0:20:33disservice to public servants working hard in Darlington and

0:20:33 > 0:20:36Glasgow to ensure students are getting access to the finance they

0:20:36 > 0:20:43need to undertake higher education. To have an organisation with 4.7

0:20:43 > 0:20:45million customers and to receive complaints each year from less than

0:20:45 > 0:20:52zero by 1% of them is an achievement. -- 0.1%. We should not

0:20:52 > 0:21:01run this organisation down.Could I ask my noble friend what he

0:21:01 > 0:21:10considers to be the most significant change brought about by the recent

0:21:10 > 0:21:17higher education and research act. That question is not put together

0:21:17 > 0:21:20adjacent to the matter of the management and operation of the

0:21:20 > 0:21:26Student Loans Company. If I be very polite to the honourable gentleman,

0:21:26 > 0:21:35I would say his enquiry is, at best, tangential. It is at best a nodding

0:21:35 > 0:21:40acquaintance of the company but no better than that. The Minister is a

0:21:40 > 0:21:42versatile dextrous fellow and I am sure he can handle the matter

0:21:42 > 0:21:47eloquently. Students receive funding indirectly

0:21:47 > 0:21:52from the Student Loans Company and universities receive funding

0:21:52 > 0:21:55directly from it as well. It is vital that there is a strong

0:21:55 > 0:21:58relationship and students feel that they are getting value for money

0:21:58 > 0:22:02from the funding it provides. The spirit of the higher education and

0:22:02 > 0:22:06research act was to promote value for money in our system and ensure

0:22:06 > 0:22:12universities are delivering great teaching and research to students.

0:22:12 > 0:22:14There you are.The honourable gentleman is not known as a

0:22:14 > 0:22:21considerable boffin from nothing. Thank you very much indeed.Can I

0:22:21 > 0:22:26Asuka Minister if he addresses a question about immigration, no-one

0:22:26 > 0:22:30on this side will denigrate the Student Loans Company. In fact, if

0:22:30 > 0:22:33you put the Student Loans Company and the good services done for so

0:22:33 > 0:22:38many students and parents, have to say, and compare that with our

0:22:38 > 0:22:42commercial bank sector, probably where so many of them should have

0:22:42 > 0:22:47actually gone to prison, this Student Loans Company has done very

0:22:47 > 0:22:51well indeed. What is there some secret agenda? Because this

0:22:51 > 0:22:58Government is about to sell off £4 billion of student loans. And who is

0:22:58 > 0:23:03leading that consortium? British banks, led by Barclays.I thank the

0:23:03 > 0:23:07honourable member for acknowledging the good work that SLC does. And I

0:23:07 > 0:23:13think it is important that we recognise that. The sale of the

0:23:13 > 0:23:16string loan because a policy which of course the last Labour Government

0:23:16 > 0:23:22made possible with the passage of the 2008 sailors to loans act. --

0:23:22 > 0:23:29sale of. There is considerable cross party recognition of the importance

0:23:29 > 0:23:33of the sustainability of public finances and the sale of student

0:23:33 > 0:23:36loan books, which the last Labour Government made possible, is one

0:23:36 > 0:23:39which is Government is quite prepared to continue.When we talk

0:23:39 > 0:23:45about student loans and access to universities, we often quite rightly

0:23:45 > 0:23:48talk about disadvantaged students. Does my right honourable, my

0:23:48 > 0:23:52honourable friend recognise the current system has really proved and

0:23:52 > 0:24:00created opportunities for those students?She's absolutely right. It

0:24:00 > 0:24:06is the income contingent repayment student loans system that has made

0:24:06 > 0:24:12possible a huge expansion of access to higher education. I have said the

0:24:12 > 0:24:17statistics several days before but students from this rant is back then

0:24:17 > 0:24:22is our 43% more likely to do to go to university and higher education

0:24:22 > 0:24:26than they were in 2009 2010. That is a direct result of successive

0:24:26 > 0:24:30governments having decided to share the cost of higher education

0:24:30 > 0:24:35equitably between students and the general taxpayer.Did the Minister

0:24:35 > 0:24:40have another go at the question put to him as to why exactly students

0:24:40 > 0:24:45have to pay such a high rate of interest compared to two lives in

0:24:45 > 0:24:52other countries but you might -- compared to students in other

0:24:52 > 0:24:59countries?Everyone here isn't the impression that students are paying

0:24:59 > 0:25:036% interest rate. All their- 5% of students in the repayment period pay

0:25:03 > 0:25:09rates of about 6.1%. So of course most students in the repayment

0:25:09 > 0:25:12period are being somewhere between RPI and RPI plus three, which takes

0:25:12 > 0:25:17us from RPI Rathlin Island three all the way to RPI plus three, which

0:25:17 > 0:25:21comes to around 6.1. It is a spectrum of interest rates that she

0:25:21 > 0:25:25lives are paying. Only students earning more than £42,000 in the

0:25:25 > 0:25:29repayment period will be paying that high rate of interest, which I think

0:25:29 > 0:25:35has got the imagination will stop that is roughly from the statistics

0:25:35 > 0:25:41I have between 2-5% of students. Notwithstanding my honourable

0:25:41 > 0:25:47friend's LL answer, is it not the case, however, that far fewer people

0:25:47 > 0:25:53from deprived backgrounds go to university now? Or at least, that is

0:25:53 > 0:25:59what I have heard from the party opposite? Have they got that wrong?

0:25:59 > 0:26:07Yes, Mr Speaker, am I -- I am afraid they have got it wrong. The rate at

0:26:07 > 0:26:10which students from the most disadvantaged backgrounds are going

0:26:10 > 0:26:14to university has jumped sharply in the last six or seven years. As I

0:26:14 > 0:26:21just said, they are 43% more likely to go into higher education now than

0:26:21 > 0:26:27they were in 2009 and 2010.As the mother of a daughter with the

0:26:27 > 0:26:32student loan, I was appalled at the BBC reports of evidence that

0:26:32 > 0:26:35education agents were recruiting Bulgar students to private colleges

0:26:35 > 0:26:41to defraud the taxpayer of thousands of student loans. Can I ask the

0:26:41 > 0:26:46Minister what different departments are doing to detect bogus students

0:26:46 > 0:26:53and will be Government legislate, for instance, to ban essay mills?

0:26:53 > 0:26:58Regarding allegations of fraud from Panorama in relation to student

0:26:58 > 0:27:03loans at three private providers, the department takes allegations of

0:27:03 > 0:27:05fraud and malpractice seriously and we are grateful to Pamela for

0:27:05 > 0:27:11bringing those allegations to our attention. -- Panorama. They devalue

0:27:11 > 0:27:16the work of honest students. Working with stakeholders, including the

0:27:16 > 0:27:20City of London Police, we will take robust action we abuse is evident.

0:27:20 > 0:27:25But it is vital we remember that the level of ineligible payments to such

0:27:25 > 0:27:30providers is actually very low and about 0.5% of all payments to

0:27:30 > 0:27:36providers. It has come down sharply from 4% in 2012 and 2013 and it is

0:27:36 > 0:27:41now higher than the rate of ineligible payments across the

0:27:41 > 0:27:50publicly funded world of higher education.The Minister will agree

0:27:50 > 0:27:52that one of the key ways of judging the success of the student loans

0:27:52 > 0:27:55finance system is there number of people from disadvantaged

0:27:55 > 0:27:59backgrounds going to university. What role does CC access agreements

0:27:59 > 0:28:06in particular playing alongside the support provided by the SLC?Access

0:28:06 > 0:28:09agreements play a vital part. The amount of funding flowing through

0:28:09 > 0:28:14access agreements to support widening participation has doubled

0:28:14 > 0:28:19over recent years. And now stands at well over 800 million pounds per

0:28:19 > 0:28:24year. These access agreements are really driving progress in

0:28:24 > 0:28:30participation. The rate in which people from the most disadvantaged

0:28:30 > 0:28:3320% of households are accessing higher education has really jump. It

0:28:33 > 0:28:42now stands at well over 20%, over 20% of that particular group.Given

0:28:42 > 0:28:46that Steve Lamey has criticised the lack of support from the Department

0:28:46 > 0:28:49for Education and this House is at the Rowenna Davies media reports

0:28:49 > 0:28:53dating a picture of a Student Loans Company leg bye bullying, low morale

0:28:53 > 0:28:56and high sickness rates, is not in the public interest that the Jenkins

0:28:56 > 0:29:01report is put into the public domain, not least so the members of

0:29:01 > 0:29:04this House can scrutinise the performance of the Student Loans

0:29:04 > 0:29:06Company but also the support provided by the Department for

0:29:06 > 0:29:15Education?This is an employment matter between Steve Lamey and the

0:29:15 > 0:29:19SLC. The Department for Education as taking quick action in response to

0:29:19 > 0:29:28the to sit -- the two reports and suspended Mr Lamey's role as

0:29:28 > 0:29:32accounting officer. It is taking quick steps to put in place new

0:29:32 > 0:29:35manager in the form of Peter Lonard to take SLC forward over the coming

0:29:35 > 0:29:48months and years. -- Peter Lerner.I am currently student loan. But what

0:29:48 > 0:29:53involvement does the Minister see the new office for students having

0:29:53 > 0:30:00end the role of appointing a new chief Executive?He is a good

0:30:00 > 0:30:07advertisement for the student loans Company. The office for students

0:30:07 > 0:30:14will not have an... A direct role in the appointment of a new Chief

0:30:14 > 0:30:17Executive of the Student Loans Company. That will be a matter for

0:30:17 > 0:30:19the board of the Student Loans Company and it is a ministerial

0:30:19 > 0:30:24appointment as well.The incompetence is of the Student Loans

0:30:24 > 0:30:31Company range from scaremongering fake debt collection letters they

0:30:31 > 0:30:40wrote to the predicament of my constituents. Isn't it apparent that

0:30:40 > 0:30:47by exposing it is a mess, where 50% of calls were mishandled at the peak

0:30:47 > 0:30:53period, Steve Lamey was dismissed for telling the truth.Mr Lamey did

0:30:53 > 0:30:57not live up to the standards with which the SLC board felt were

0:30:57 > 0:31:02required for the role and they took the action to dismiss him. The

0:31:02 > 0:31:05Department for Education followed on by removing his function as

0:31:05 > 0:31:10accounting officer. We want the SLC to continue to be highly performing

0:31:10 > 0:31:14organisation and we should remember that overall it is a success

0:31:14 > 0:31:21organisation was just 0.1% of its customers complaining. Many private

0:31:21 > 0:31:28sector organisations would end their -- in the record like that.In his

0:31:28 > 0:31:34initial reply, he further the van Alun revelation last week. Is he

0:31:34 > 0:31:36aware of any Welsh institutions being caught up in fraudulent

0:31:36 > 0:31:40activity and what discussions as he had with the Welsh Government?Mr

0:31:40 > 0:31:44Speaker, I am not personally aware of any such allegations. That would

0:31:44 > 0:31:51be a matter for the Welsh funding agency and Welsh regulatory

0:31:51 > 0:31:53authorities. If the honourable member is aware of any, he should

0:31:53 > 0:32:00not lose any time in relaying his concerns to the appropriate body.

0:32:00 > 0:32:02Chaos in the Student Loans Company adds insult to injury to those

0:32:02 > 0:32:06paying off these huge debts on graduation. It constituents into

0:32:06 > 0:32:09senior last Friday, bringing with him his student loans company

0:32:09 > 0:32:13statement. He is a paramedic doing important, highly skilled work for

0:32:13 > 0:32:16the emergency services. He completed his training with over £20,000 of

0:32:16 > 0:32:23debt. He has paid off £1084 since April 2016 but during the same

0:32:23 > 0:32:28period, the company has applied £870 interest. He said to me, no wonder

0:32:28 > 0:32:30graduates attempt to leave the country. What would the Minister

0:32:30 > 0:32:38said to him?Mr Speaker, we want the student and repayment experience to

0:32:38 > 0:32:44be a simple and smooth and effective as possible. It is striking that the

0:32:44 > 0:32:50level of complaints are low. Of course there will be complaints like

0:32:50 > 0:32:53our constituent made to her. She is right to raise them. We want to

0:32:53 > 0:32:57learn from all student experience and the SLC does learn from the

0:32:57 > 0:33:00relatively few complaints that it gets. But it is important that we do

0:33:00 > 0:33:09so.I have been contacted by Leeds University union of many cases of

0:33:09 > 0:33:18overpayment. One person was told he could not get another loans. Another

0:33:18 > 0:33:21was told to do not meet residency requirements. The format was

0:33:21 > 0:33:27demanded. -- filament. How Christians be treated fairly when

0:33:27 > 0:33:33the SLC makes mistakes with students very deep in debt?We want all

0:33:33 > 0:33:36students in repayments to be treated fairly by this turn loans company

0:33:36 > 0:33:41and we take the issue of overpayments particularly seriously.

0:33:41 > 0:33:43As I mentioned already, in response to the honourable member on the

0:33:43 > 0:33:48front bench, we can expect to hear more of this particular feeling of

0:33:48 > 0:33:52overpayments and the interaction of the Student Loans Company and HMRC

0:33:52 > 0:34:00in a couple days' time for the budget.The Minister seems very

0:34:00 > 0:34:07complacent about the level of fraud. Peter Lilley airport -- economic

0:34:07 > 0:34:11report the amount of fraud known to us. I is nature, people are carried

0:34:11 > 0:34:15fraud and devious.

0:34:16 > 0:34:20What action did he take in response to what was exposed by the Panorama

0:34:20 > 0:34:27programme?Mr Speaker, he is of course right. The nature of fraud is

0:34:27 > 0:34:33that you only really have a sighting shot at understanding the level of

0:34:33 > 0:34:37fraud in any system. What we have to look at is comparable levels of

0:34:37 > 0:34:41ineligible payments across different types of provider. As I said, we do

0:34:41 > 0:34:44not now seen a higher level of fraud to the so-called alternative

0:34:44 > 0:34:51providers within the so call -- so-called providers.

0:34:59 > 0:35:04Last Thursday I met with senior NHS leaders who told me there was a

0:35:04 > 0:35:08growing desperation to have our senior NHS professionals. Given that

0:35:08 > 0:35:13all these people will have to pay all the money back, I want to give

0:35:13 > 0:35:16the Minister another chance to again look at the interest rate payments

0:35:16 > 0:35:22and the fact they will have to start paying interest and accumulating

0:35:22 > 0:35:27interest before they graduate.This is a heavily subsidised student loan

0:35:27 > 0:35:34product overall. About 45% of loans are consciously written off by

0:35:34 > 0:35:36government as a deliberate investment in the skills base of

0:35:36 > 0:35:41this country. We want there to be no financial barriers to access and

0:35:41 > 0:35:46that means we do make this money available under a favourable terms.

0:35:46 > 0:35:51The interest rate is a means of ensuring that those graduates who go

0:35:51 > 0:35:55on to have higher lifetime earnings than average make a contribution to

0:35:55 > 0:36:00the overall cost and the overall sustainability of higher education

0:36:00 > 0:36:04and ensuring it continues to drive access and widen participation

0:36:04 > 0:36:10systematically across the piece. Dennis Skinner.Is the Minister

0:36:10 > 0:36:15where it is not subsidised enough? There is only one solution to this

0:36:15 > 0:36:20and it stares you in the face every time he opens his mouth. Let's have

0:36:20 > 0:36:27a free education like we used to have from the cradle to the grave.

0:36:27 > 0:36:31Mr Speaker, the thing is that our system of student finances enable

0:36:31 > 0:36:36far more people to go to university than the kind of system which he is

0:36:36 > 0:36:44advocating. Mr Speaker, in the 1950s and 1960s when others in this house

0:36:44 > 0:36:49were thinking of whether or not to go to university, a far smaller

0:36:49 > 0:36:54proportion of each cohort of 18-19 -year-olds was given the chance to

0:36:54 > 0:37:00go. We are now in a situation where 18 and 19-year-olds are almost 46%

0:37:00 > 0:37:04of them getting a chance to go to university and that is a world away

0:37:04 > 0:37:11from what it was when we had an entirely state funded system of

0:37:11 > 0:37:19higher education that meant it was just the preserve of a narrow elite.

0:37:19 > 0:37:30Order. We do have a statement, but if the honourable gentleman is in a

0:37:30 > 0:37:33state of uncontrollable perturbation, I will take it now.

0:37:33 > 0:37:40You may not be aware but in the other place this afternoon Minister

0:37:40 > 0:37:44in the Department for exiting the European Union has come to give a

0:37:44 > 0:37:48specific statement to correct something he said about Article 50

0:37:48 > 0:37:55and whether this could or could not be revoked. Indeed today, the Lord

0:37:55 > 0:38:00has come into the House of Lords and said, for the avoidance of any doubt

0:38:00 > 0:38:04the Supreme Court did not rule on the legal position regarding its

0:38:04 > 0:38:08irreversibility. Mr Speaker, this is relevant because we are about to

0:38:08 > 0:38:12start the EU withdrawal bill at committee stage proceedings tomorrow

0:38:12 > 0:38:17and it is very important that everybody recognises that it is

0:38:17 > 0:38:24possible for Article 50 to be revoked. The government not

0:38:24 > 0:38:28contradicting that, it may be government policy not to revoke

0:38:28 > 0:38:32Article 50, but I wonder whether you had had noticed that if this

0:38:32 > 0:38:36statement has been made in the other place whether the minister will also

0:38:36 > 0:38:41come and clarify this in the House of commons?I am grateful to the

0:38:41 > 0:38:45honourable gentleman for his point of order. In short, I have received

0:38:45 > 0:38:49no notification any minister intends to come to the House to make a

0:38:49 > 0:38:53statement on that matter. But what I can say to the honourable gentleman

0:38:53 > 0:38:58is that if an error is made in the other place, it can be corrected

0:38:58 > 0:39:04only in the other place. The requirement for correction does not

0:39:04 > 0:39:09span the two houses. However, the honourable gentleman is an eager

0:39:09 > 0:39:14beaver and if, as these matters are broached in this house in the

0:39:14 > 0:39:19committee stage, the honourable gentleman if he wishes to leap to

0:39:19 > 0:39:23his feet with the athleticism for which he is renowned in all parts of

0:39:23 > 0:39:27the House to challenge the Minister to confirm the veracity of the

0:39:27 > 0:39:31correction, it is open to them to do so. Knowing the honourable gentleman

0:39:31 > 0:39:37as I do I feel sure he will be in this place and ready to leap at the

0:39:37 > 0:39:42first opportunity. If there are no further points of order, we come now

0:39:42 > 0:39:48to the statement. Minister of State for the Middle East and North

0:39:48 > 0:39:55Africa.Minister Alistair Burt. Thank you, Mr Speaker. With

0:39:55 > 0:39:59permission I would like to make a statement to the House on the

0:39:59 > 0:40:03humanitarian and political situation in Yemen and the implications of the

0:40:03 > 0:40:08conflict for regional security. Her Majesty's government remains deeply

0:40:08 > 0:40:11concerned by the humanitarian situation in Yemen and the impact

0:40:11 > 0:40:15recent restrictions are having on what was already the worst

0:40:15 > 0:40:19humanitarian crisis in the world and largest ever cholera outbreak. We

0:40:19 > 0:40:24recognise the risk of a severe deterioration of the humanitarian

0:40:24 > 0:40:28situation if restrictions are not quickly removed and call on all

0:40:28 > 0:40:31parties to ensure immediate access to commercial and humanitarian

0:40:31 > 0:40:38supplies to all Yemen's land, air and sea ports. But we should be

0:40:38 > 0:40:43clear about the reality of the conflict in Yemen. The Saudi led

0:40:43 > 0:40:45coalition launched a military intervention after a rebel

0:40:45 > 0:40:50insurgency took the capital by force and overthrew the legitimate

0:40:50 > 0:40:54government of Yemen as recognised by the UN Security Council. Ungoverned

0:40:54 > 0:40:59spaces in Yemen are being used by terrorist groups to launch attacks

0:40:59 > 0:41:03against regional countries, international shipping lanes and the

0:41:03 > 0:41:06Yemeni people. As the Foreign Secretary has made clear, we

0:41:06 > 0:41:11strongly condemn the attempted missile attack against Riyadh on the

0:41:11 > 0:41:154th of November. This attack, which has been claimed by the Hutus,

0:41:15 > 0:41:27deliberately targets a civilian area and was intercepted. The UK can say

0:41:27 > 0:41:42that we are wanting to support the Saudi military. I understand that

0:41:42 > 0:41:48the UN team is currently visiting Riyadh to investigate reports. It is

0:41:48 > 0:41:52essential the UN conducts a thorough investigation. The UK stands ready

0:41:52 > 0:41:56to share its expertise to support this process. But we recognise those

0:41:56 > 0:42:01who suffer most in this conflict are the people of Yemen. We understand

0:42:01 > 0:42:07why the Saudi led coalition felt obliged to temporarily close Yemen's

0:42:07 > 0:42:10ports and airports in order to strengthen enforcement of the UN

0:42:10 > 0:42:15mandated arms embargo. It is critical international efforts to

0:42:15 > 0:42:22disrupt illicit weapons flows are strengthened, but at the same time

0:42:22 > 0:42:24it is vital that commercial and humanitarian supplies of food, fuel

0:42:24 > 0:42:28and medicine are able to reach vulnerable Yemeni people,

0:42:28 > 0:42:33particularly in the North West 70% of those live. Even before the

0:42:33 > 0:42:38current restrictions, 21 million people were already in need of

0:42:38 > 0:42:41humanitarian assistance and 7 million worst single step away from

0:42:41 > 0:42:47famine. 90% of food is imported and three quarters of that come via the

0:42:47 > 0:42:50porous and no other pause in Yemen have the capacity to make up the

0:42:50 > 0:42:55shortfall. Our partners in Yemen are already reporting that water and

0:42:55 > 0:43:00sewage systems in major cities have stopped operating because of a lack

0:43:00 > 0:43:04of fuel. Millions no longer have access to clean water and sanitation

0:43:04 > 0:43:09in a country suffering from the worst cholera outbreak in modern

0:43:09 > 0:43:13times. The restrictions on access for commercial and Unitarian

0:43:13 > 0:43:19assistance risk making the situation immeasurably worse. We have heard

0:43:19 > 0:43:24the UN's stark warnings about the risk of famine. We call on all

0:43:24 > 0:43:28parties to ensure immediate access for commercial and humanitarian

0:43:28 > 0:43:32supplies to avert the threat of starvation and disease faced by

0:43:32 > 0:43:37millions. We also call for the immediate reopening of the port and

0:43:37 > 0:43:41the resumption of UN flights into Aung San Suu Kyi and aid in

0:43:41 > 0:43:44airports. The Foreign Office statement on the 15th of November

0:43:44 > 0:43:50made clear restrictions on humanitarian flights are causing

0:43:50 > 0:43:54problems, including UK nationals who wish to enter or exit the country.

0:43:54 > 0:43:59We have been urgently and proactively seeking a resolution of

0:43:59 > 0:44:03this situation. Our ambassador in Riyadh has been infrequently contact

0:44:03 > 0:44:07with the Saudi minister and the Foreign Secretary has discussed the

0:44:07 > 0:44:10situation in Yemen with the crown prince with whom we have emphasised

0:44:10 > 0:44:18the urgency of addressing the worst of the humanitarian crisis. The

0:44:18 > 0:44:21Secretary of State for International Development has spoken to the UN

0:44:21 > 0:44:26Secretary General and the undersecretary general since her

0:44:26 > 0:44:31appointment on the 9th of November about the situation in Yemen. We are

0:44:31 > 0:44:34continuing to work closely with other regional and international

0:44:34 > 0:44:39partners, including the UN. On the 18th of November the Foreign

0:44:39 > 0:44:43Secretary spoke to the UN Secretary General. Central to this discussion

0:44:43 > 0:44:47was how the security concerns of Saudi Arabia can be addressed to

0:44:47 > 0:44:51enable these restrictions to be lifted. It is important the UN and

0:44:51 > 0:44:56Saudi Arabia enter a meaningful and constructive dialogue. We will

0:44:56 > 0:45:00continue to support the people of Yemen through the provision of

0:45:00 > 0:45:04life-saving humanitarian supplies. The UK is the fourth-largest

0:45:04 > 0:45:10humanitarian donor to Yemen and the second-largest through the UN

0:45:10 > 0:45:16appeal, committing £155 million to Yemen for 2017-18. UK aid has

0:45:16 > 0:45:20provided food to almost 2 million people and clean water to over 1

0:45:20 > 0:45:25million more. The only way to bring long-term stability is through

0:45:25 > 0:45:32political solution and that is why peace talks remain of most

0:45:32 > 0:45:38importance. The UK continues to play a leading role in diplomatic efforts

0:45:38 > 0:45:42to find a peaceful solution, this includes bringing together key

0:45:42 > 0:45:47international actors, including the US, Saudi Arabia, the Emirates and

0:45:47 > 0:45:53allies. We intend to convene another such meeting shortly. It is that we

0:45:53 > 0:45:58work together to refocus the political track. The United Kingdom

0:45:58 > 0:46:02will play a leading role in Yemen through the UN. In June we proposed

0:46:02 > 0:46:07and supported the UN Security Council presidential statement which

0:46:07 > 0:46:10expressed deep concern about the humanitarian statement in Yemen. It

0:46:10 > 0:46:16called for an end to the fighting, a return to peace talks and stressed

0:46:16 > 0:46:20the importance of unhindered humanitarian access. It is vital the

0:46:20 > 0:46:25words of the texts are converted into action. The international

0:46:25 > 0:46:32community's demands must be respected.Thank you, Mr Speaker. I

0:46:32 > 0:46:36am standing in today for my right honourable friend the Shadow Foreign

0:46:36 > 0:46:40Secretary who has a child in hospital. Also, Mr Speaker, as we

0:46:40 > 0:46:45discussed today the human cost of one seemingly intractable conflict I

0:46:45 > 0:46:49am sure the whole house will join me in commemorating the 100th

0:46:49 > 0:46:57anniversary of the Battle of Iraq's. I visited the tunnels last week and

0:46:57 > 0:47:02in saluting the service of the Royal Tank Regiment for whom this day

0:47:02 > 0:47:07remains rightly sacred. Mr Speaker, I thank the Minister of State for

0:47:07 > 0:47:11advance sight of his statement. I will not address all the points he

0:47:11 > 0:47:16has made at this stage given there may be another opportunity to do so

0:47:16 > 0:47:23later in today's proceedings. For the time being I wish to address the

0:47:23 > 0:47:28escalating matter of the urgent crisis in Yemen. On that point the

0:47:28 > 0:47:31Minister of State has joined a long line of Foreign Office ministers who

0:47:31 > 0:47:36have come to this house since 2015 and have told us time after time

0:47:36 > 0:47:40they are doing everything they can to tackle the humanitarian crisis in

0:47:40 > 0:47:45Yemen and to limit civilian casualties. Yet time after time,

0:47:45 > 0:47:49whatever the government's good intentions, they humanitarian crisis

0:47:49 > 0:47:53keeps getting worse and worse and the civilian death toll continues

0:47:53 > 0:48:00rising ever higher. Now we face a dramatic escalation of that crisis

0:48:00 > 0:48:06with millions of lives in even more immediate danger. I am afraid that

0:48:06 > 0:48:11more good intentions on the part of the government will simply not cut

0:48:11 > 0:48:16it this time. Instead we need urgent action. We are all familiar with

0:48:16 > 0:48:21recent developments as summarised by the Minister of State. The Saudis

0:48:21 > 0:48:24have reacted with understandable anger to the firing of a ballistic

0:48:24 > 0:48:29missile at Riyadh, an act that all of us on this side of the House

0:48:29 > 0:48:34unequivocally condemn in the same way that we have condemned all the

0:48:34 > 0:48:36thousands of Saudi air strikes against civilian targets inside

0:48:36 > 0:48:43Yemen. Following the defeat missile strike, the Saudis strengthened

0:48:43 > 0:48:48their blockade of all rebel held areas of Yemen and as a result what

0:48:48 > 0:48:53little supplies their worth of food, medicine and other humanitarian

0:48:53 > 0:48:58goods have now grown to a halt. Millions of children who were

0:48:58 > 0:49:05already facing severe malnutrition, a cholera epidemic, an outbreak of

0:49:05 > 0:49:09diphtheria, have had their very last lifeline cut off. Let me quote this

0:49:09 > 0:49:14weekend was a joint statement by the world health programme, the World

0:49:14 > 0:49:19Food Programme and Unicef. They say the tightening of the blockade,

0:49:19 > 0:49:24quote, is making an already catastrophic situation far worse.

0:49:24 > 0:49:29They say the supplies the Saudis are blocking are essential to staving

0:49:29 > 0:49:33off disease and starvation and without them untold thousands of

0:49:33 > 0:49:39innocent victims will die. They estimate if nothing is done over the

0:49:39 > 0:49:42coming months, 150,000 already malnourished children could starve

0:49:42 > 0:49:51to death. They conclude, quote, to deprive his many from the basic

0:49:51 > 0:49:55means of survival is an unconscionable act and a violation

0:49:55 > 0:50:03of humanitarian principles and law.

0:50:03 > 0:50:09The Minister of State says he shares those concerns. But at what point

0:50:09 > 0:50:13will he admit that strategy isn't working? At what point will he

0:50:13 > 0:50:17warned the Saudis that Britain will withdraw its support if they carry

0:50:17 > 0:50:22on with this blockade? And at what point do we say this is no longer a

0:50:22 > 0:50:28question of diplomatic persuasion but a matter of international law?

0:50:28 > 0:50:34International humanitarian law is clear Mr Speaker, and Britain's

0:50:34 > 0:50:43manual on the armed conflict, saying that the civil population cannot be

0:50:43 > 0:50:48used as a weapon of war. "The Establishment of a blockade is

0:50:48 > 0:50:52prohibited if the damage to the civil population is excessive in

0:50:52 > 0:51:03relation to the military advantage and if the are deprived of things

0:51:03 > 0:51:06essential for their survival, the blockading party must provide for

0:51:06 > 0:51:12free passage of such essential supplies." So Mr Speaker, I have to

0:51:12 > 0:51:16ask the Minister of State, if the Saudis continue to enforce its

0:51:16 > 0:51:21blockade in its current form and deny humanitarian access, will it be

0:51:21 > 0:51:26the judgment of this government that they are in breach of international

0:51:26 > 0:51:31law and if so, will his government suspended the sale of British arms

0:51:31 > 0:51:36that are being used to enforce that blockade? Mr Speaker, the truth is

0:51:36 > 0:51:42that this government has invested considerable political capital in

0:51:42 > 0:51:49its relationship with Saudi Arabia. It has championed the cramping, the

0:51:49 > 0:51:55architect of the conflict in Yemen and the blockade. If that diplomatic

0:51:55 > 0:52:00strategy has been worth anything, now is the time to prove it. Now is

0:52:00 > 0:52:04the time for the government to show we can have influence and impact on

0:52:04 > 0:52:08the Saudis and persuade them that as a matter of urgency they should open

0:52:08 > 0:52:13up the ports to humanitarian supplies and bring relief to the

0:52:13 > 0:52:16millions of children facing starvation and disease. If the

0:52:16 > 0:52:19government cannot achieve that Mr Speaker then it is time to change

0:52:19 > 0:52:27their approach.Thank you Mr Speaker and can I thank the honourable

0:52:27 > 0:52:32gentleman for his comments and a large part of it with which I would

0:52:32 > 0:52:36not disagree. Can I start by passing on the good wishes from the benches

0:52:36 > 0:52:40to the Right Honourable Lady and trust that all is well with her

0:52:40 > 0:52:46child. And also to recognise what the honourable gentleman said in

0:52:46 > 0:52:50relation to the First World War battle, we have seen pictures of the

0:52:50 > 0:52:54tanks yesterday which brought a smile to many hearts, thanks for

0:52:54 > 0:53:01reminding the House about that. The honourable gentleman was right to

0:53:01 > 0:53:06recognise the frustrations in terms of the conflict and the actions to

0:53:06 > 0:53:11bring it to an end are not solely in the power of the United Kingdom

0:53:11 > 0:53:16government. We have to work with partners to achieve that. I set out

0:53:16 > 0:53:21what we have been seeking to do ever since it became clear that the

0:53:21 > 0:53:27conflict was becoming a matter that would require political negotiation

0:53:27 > 0:53:30and not a military solution, to bring the parties together and find

0:53:30 > 0:53:35an answer to a conflict that has already taken too many lives but is

0:53:35 > 0:53:43about two sides. There is very little attention paid to the

0:53:43 > 0:53:46activities of those on the other side and those who have been

0:53:46 > 0:53:52involved in human rights abuses on their side, it does take two sides.

0:53:52 > 0:54:07Arn Basta in Yemen -- our ambassador in Yemen, we wish to resolve the

0:54:07 > 0:54:12humanitarian issues we are solving about -- talking about. I do not

0:54:12 > 0:54:16quibble with the concerns raised by agencies, I am in touch with the

0:54:16 > 0:54:23world food programme, we know they have warned us of the severity of

0:54:23 > 0:54:31the problems faced if the restrictions are not eased. Where I

0:54:31 > 0:54:33would challenge the honourable gentleman and put a different

0:54:33 > 0:54:40complexion, he speaks about us continuing to make representations

0:54:40 > 0:54:45and a political solution of what happens if it doesn't work, we are

0:54:45 > 0:54:49pressing on the representations. We do not know what the answer will be

0:54:49 > 0:54:53but we are making it clear, as have other parties, of the seriousness of

0:54:53 > 0:54:58the situation and we do expect there will be a change, there has to be. I

0:54:58 > 0:55:02do want to challenge in relation to international humanitarian law, he

0:55:02 > 0:55:07speaks about that law preventing starvation of civilians as a means

0:55:07 > 0:55:15method of warfare, that is quite correct. And the public made Saudi

0:55:15 > 0:55:21comment is that it is not there to wage war but to prevent the import

0:55:21 > 0:55:27of missiles. It is confirmation of the support of those who wish to

0:55:27 > 0:55:31prevent missiles entering Yemen need to protect themselves and that is

0:55:31 > 0:55:35through the work being done by the UN and the coalition to secure the

0:55:35 > 0:55:39entry ports to make sure there are no threats in the same way there was

0:55:39 > 0:55:44to the airport in Riyadh but at the same time it is vital there is

0:55:44 > 0:55:49humanitarian access. We believe that concentration on both of those will

0:55:49 > 0:55:53relieve the humanitarian situation and at the same time secure the

0:55:53 > 0:55:56safety of those who wish to protect their own people. We will continue

0:55:56 > 0:56:01to do that in addition to the work we are doing negotiations which is

0:56:01 > 0:56:08the only solution to the conflict. Mr Andrew Mitchell.By Right

0:56:08 > 0:56:12Honourable friend has been most helpful today, I thank him and the

0:56:12 > 0:56:17opposition front for their comments about my old regiment which will be

0:56:17 > 0:56:20celebrating and commemorating the events of 100 years ago next

0:56:20 > 0:56:27weekend. But on Yemen, are not three features of our engagement

0:56:27 > 0:56:34absolutely clear? The current policy on Yemen is doomed to strategic

0:56:34 > 0:56:39failure both for Saudi Arabia and by extension the UK. Secondly, that

0:56:39 > 0:56:46Saudi policy violates international law, as clearly set out in the UN

0:56:46 > 0:56:49Secretary-General's letter of last Friday. And thirdly, that we are

0:56:49 > 0:56:57dangerously complicit in a policy that is directly the mating of

0:56:57 > 0:57:01famine and the collective punishment of an entire population? Are we not

0:57:01 > 0:57:05on the brink, Mr Speaker, of witnessing in Yemen are a totally

0:57:05 > 0:57:11preventable massive humanitarian catastrophe, the likes of the -- the

0:57:11 > 0:57:19likes of which we haven't seen in decades?In relation to my right

0:57:19 > 0:57:23honourable friend's last point, it is for the very reasons that we wish

0:57:23 > 0:57:30to prevent the concerns raised by agencies in the UN from coming to

0:57:30 > 0:57:38fruition that we are spending all our efforts -- lending all I efforts

0:57:38 > 0:57:42in order to preserve safety and prevent arms getting through to make

0:57:42 > 0:57:47sure humanitarian access is indeed given. He is right to raise the

0:57:47 > 0:57:51concerns which I know the whole House has, that is what is giving

0:57:51 > 0:57:56the UK Government every incentive to continue to do all we can to raise

0:57:56 > 0:58:01those issues with those who fear for their own safety, to make sure they

0:58:01 > 0:58:04are not putting others at risk in the manner described by so many

0:58:04 > 0:58:12agencies.I agree very much with the comments for the members for Leeds

0:58:12 > 0:58:17North East and Sutton Coldfield, and key for giving me a advance sight of

0:58:17 > 0:58:21the statement, I am happy to hear there is dialogue but we need a lot

0:58:21 > 0:58:29more about actions in this House. I also understand the difficulties

0:58:29 > 0:58:33facing the Saudis and the attack in Riyadh which we of course also

0:58:33 > 0:58:41condemn, there needs to be recognition of the two sides of this

0:58:41 > 0:58:50conflict. The 155 million the Minister talks about in aid is

0:58:50 > 0:58:59brought by the people and 8 billion in arms deals to Saudi Arabia. Will

0:58:59 > 0:59:03the Minister speak a little more about those? Aid agencies have been

0:59:03 > 0:59:08reporting for years about the difficulties of getting aid into

0:59:08 > 0:59:15Yemen and across Yemen. Difficulties faced by aid agencies intends moving

0:59:15 > 0:59:19goods across the country and moving people about the country, only

0:59:19 > 0:59:24recently I heard from one man who saw how the projects are going, he

0:59:24 > 0:59:27could not travel round the country either due to the Visa system in

0:59:27 > 0:59:33operation. Despite the inspection system, Save the Children report

0:59:33 > 0:59:39that 13 ships carrying vital humanitarian aid were still denied

0:59:39 > 0:59:43entry to Yemen, what is the UK Government doing to get seaports

0:59:43 > 0:59:48open, especially when these convoys are quite clearly aid convoys and

0:59:48 > 0:59:53not containing missiles? It is fine to say they are providing funding

0:59:53 > 0:59:56but without access and workers on the ground able to deliver that it

0:59:56 > 1:00:02is almost meaningless. This is a population deliberately being

1:00:02 > 1:00:06staffed by its neighbours. Those neighbours are key allies of the UK.

1:00:06 > 1:00:14-- being starved. Save the Children report 130 children in Newman will

1:00:14 > 1:00:17die today, and tomorrow and the next day until this conflict ends, will

1:00:17 > 1:00:25the Minister tell us how he will stop this?Again, I come to the last

1:00:25 > 1:00:29point of her remarks, how will this conflict come to an end? It will

1:00:29 > 1:00:33come to an end when both sides are brought together by those who make

1:00:33 > 1:00:37it clear that there is no military solution to this and there has to be

1:00:37 > 1:00:41a political solution. That is what the United Kingdom has been seeking

1:00:41 > 1:00:48to do for many months now am a with appropriate parties here in London,

1:00:48 > 1:00:53New York and in the region. We share the frustrations because like others

1:00:53 > 1:01:00we can see the impact. I would comment on a couple of her other

1:01:00 > 1:01:05perfectly proper remarks, the key test for our continued arms exports

1:01:05 > 1:01:08to Saudi Arabia in terms of humanitarian and international law

1:01:08 > 1:01:14is if there is a clear risk that those items might be used in a

1:01:14 > 1:01:18violation of that international law, that is kept under continual review.

1:01:18 > 1:01:22And like other aspects of the UK arms control policy, it is subject

1:01:22 > 1:01:29to rigorous examination here and by the law. The Honourable lady is

1:01:29 > 1:01:35right to raise access, as we have done. It does not mean our work is

1:01:35 > 1:01:42meaningless, as she indicated, we are working through partners on the

1:01:42 > 1:01:45ground but distribution is harder, of course it is. It is not just in

1:01:45 > 1:01:50coalition controlled areas but other areas, I must remind the House of

1:01:50 > 1:01:56their art two side to this. If I may deal again with arms exports, I know

1:01:56 > 1:01:59it is fundamental and I did relate that to the honourable lady the

1:01:59 > 1:02:03other week and I shall do so again if I may. I do not mean to be harsh

1:02:03 > 1:02:11on it. If our not sending support to our allies, who are facing attacks

1:02:11 > 1:02:17upon their own soil from missiles imported into ungoverned space am

1:02:17 > 1:02:22aware they are trying to support and elected government against the

1:02:22 > 1:02:28interests of urgency -- against the insurgency, if we thought that would

1:02:28 > 1:02:33be of use, it would be a course of action. I do not believe that is the

1:02:33 > 1:02:36case. I do not think that if we were to take that action that it would

1:02:36 > 1:02:41not fundamentally undermine a number of other regional issues which our

1:02:41 > 1:02:45allies would wonder when they face an attack on their Heathrow whether

1:02:45 > 1:02:49we were making the right judgments. We have to pursue other means of

1:02:49 > 1:02:56bringing the conflict to an end and that is what we are seeking to do.

1:02:56 > 1:03:03Is Yemen subject to a blockade? Yemen is subject to restrictions

1:03:03 > 1:03:09brought in by the coalition parties following the attack by a missile on

1:03:09 > 1:03:13Riyadh and because of the smuggling of arms and weapons that have

1:03:13 > 1:03:17threatened the coalition vote in the UAE and Saudi Arabia for some period

1:03:17 > 1:03:22of time. I am not sure that the nomenclature adds to it a great deal

1:03:22 > 1:03:27but that is the aspect of the situation.I think it is pretty

1:03:27 > 1:03:32clear that it is a blockade and the sheer scale of the humanitarian

1:03:32 > 1:03:36crisis now must require urgent action by this government and by our

1:03:36 > 1:03:40partners to press the Saudis to lift the blockade. The Minister in his

1:03:40 > 1:03:45statement said that our partners Newman are reporting that water in

1:03:45 > 1:03:49major cities has stopped operating because of a lack of fuel. Can he

1:03:49 > 1:03:54tell us how high the fuel supplies are and when can food be distributed

1:03:54 > 1:04:00and when the level of debt will increase genetically as a result?We

1:04:00 > 1:04:07hope it does not reach that case. It has been made clear that it is a

1:04:07 > 1:04:11matter of a number of days in which both of these issues will become

1:04:11 > 1:04:15critical. In terms of what we have done, since the 4th of November and

1:04:15 > 1:04:21the attack and the response from the coalition, on the 5th of November, a

1:04:21 > 1:04:25statement condemned the attack, on the 13th of November, the Secretary

1:04:25 > 1:04:31of State for International Development spoke about the

1:04:31 > 1:04:37circumstance, we issued a further statement about the need for

1:04:37 > 1:04:44humanitarian access, and conversations in Riyadh are taking

1:04:44 > 1:04:53place all the time to reassure them on security about weapons

1:04:53 > 1:04:57threatening them being dealt with but that humanitarian access is

1:04:57 > 1:04:58vital.

1:05:04 > 1:05:08Whilst I understand why the minister is getting a statement today, can I

1:05:08 > 1:05:14remind him since 2010 there have been 15 oral statements, 16 written

1:05:14 > 1:05:19ministerial statements and nine urgent questions. We as the

1:05:19 > 1:05:25ministers spend more time in the department sorting out the problem

1:05:25 > 1:05:31and less time talking about it.I am grateful to my honourable friend, a

1:05:31 > 1:05:35former minister, for his support. I understand the point he makes. Since

1:05:35 > 1:05:402010 when I was first at the dispatch box in relation to Yemen we

1:05:40 > 1:05:43have had all sorts of different prospects for a different future for

1:05:43 > 1:05:49the people of Yemen. The end of the presidency, a process which resulted

1:05:49 > 1:05:54in a national dialogue, an opportunity for a new, democratic

1:05:54 > 1:05:57future, an opportunity for voices not heard in the governance of Yemen

1:05:57 > 1:06:03ever in terms of young people and women, and those opportunities were

1:06:03 > 1:06:06dashed by the current conflict and insurgency by a group seeking to

1:06:06 > 1:06:12take power with violence, removing the chances that people had for the

1:06:12 > 1:06:16development and the building of democracy as we had seen. The UK has

1:06:16 > 1:06:21been engaged right the way through that process to encourage all the

1:06:21 > 1:06:25right things. Reporting to the House is an important thing to do, but it

1:06:25 > 1:06:28has not taken away any of the time we have needed to spend in Yemen

1:06:28 > 1:06:37itself.Joe Swinton.The Minister is right that a political solution is

1:06:37 > 1:06:42essential and the only route to solving the humanitarian crisis in

1:06:42 > 1:06:46the medium term, but access for aid is vital in the short term. I am

1:06:46 > 1:06:50glad the UK Government has raised this issue with the Crown prince.

1:06:50 > 1:06:54What was his response and does the government, if it sticks to its

1:06:54 > 1:07:00current position, have any hope that the Saudis will let in any vital

1:07:00 > 1:07:07supplies in the future?The Crown Prince's response on behalf of the

1:07:07 > 1:07:12kingdom of Saudi Arabia is to make the point about the need to control

1:07:12 > 1:07:15weapons which might threaten Saudi Arabia being smuggled into Yemen and

1:07:15 > 1:07:20being used by those with whom they are in conflict, as has been the

1:07:20 > 1:07:25case over a period of time. We worry that the sophistication of the

1:07:25 > 1:07:30missiles being smuggled in has increased and increase the risk not

1:07:30 > 1:07:34only to Saudi Arabia and neighbouring places, but the risk of

1:07:34 > 1:07:39the conflict escalating and becoming still worse. That is why there is a

1:07:39 > 1:07:43serious concentration on trying to prevent that because that looks

1:07:43 > 1:07:47likely to prolong the conflict and make the humanitarian situation

1:07:47 > 1:07:51still worse. But at the same time I understand the Crown Prince was

1:07:51 > 1:07:55absolutely aware, as the public statement to the Saudis made clear,

1:07:55 > 1:08:00that it was not the intention of the restrictions to cause the

1:08:00 > 1:08:04humanitarian concerns which are now dead, but to deal with the arms

1:08:04 > 1:08:09supplies being smuggled in. The agencies we work with and ourselves

1:08:09 > 1:08:14are impressing upon the coalition that that maybe the unintended

1:08:14 > 1:08:18effect and that is why those restrictions need to be lifted and

1:08:18 > 1:08:25the access that the honourable lady is looking for has to happen.Given

1:08:25 > 1:08:29that the United Nations has said recently that if this blockade is

1:08:29 > 1:08:35not lifted, we are likely to see the worst famine for decades, given the

1:08:35 > 1:08:39outbreak of diphtheria and cholera, could I urge my right honourable

1:08:39 > 1:08:45friend to bring to this house some kind of statement every week, not

1:08:45 > 1:08:50necessarily an oral statement, but in writing, because this situation

1:08:50 > 1:08:55is developing daily, weekly, and we must be kept informed to know what

1:08:55 > 1:09:00the situation is, hopefully a turn for the better.I thank my

1:09:00 > 1:09:04honourable friend for that. I will talk with the Department and the

1:09:04 > 1:09:08House authorities about what would be the best way to do that. I

1:09:08 > 1:09:11understand that, if there is a way to make sure there is adequate

1:09:11 > 1:09:16information from government and those other agencies involved

1:09:16 > 1:09:24rapidly and effectively and I shall try and do that.Like many others I

1:09:24 > 1:09:35condemned the missile attack on Riyadh and I would argue that but

1:09:35 > 1:09:46can I pressed the Minister on the discussions with Saudi Arabia. Is

1:09:46 > 1:09:49there any reason why the airport should not be reopened to

1:09:49 > 1:09:57humanitarian flights in the next 24 hours?I thank the honourable

1:09:57 > 1:10:03gentleman for the condemnation of the missile attack as indeed it came

1:10:03 > 1:10:06from his front bench. In terms of timescale we have asked these

1:10:06 > 1:10:12restrictions to be lifted immediately. I cannot speak for the

1:10:12 > 1:10:14coalition in relation to their timescale beyond the fact they want

1:10:14 > 1:10:20to be assured that the ports are adequately protected against this

1:10:20 > 1:10:25sort of attack which they saw. That is why we are urging that the UN are

1:10:25 > 1:10:30able to have access to those ports and to work with the coalition

1:10:30 > 1:10:33authorities with neither side is demanding that the other side move

1:10:33 > 1:10:39first in order to make sure there is an opportunity to secure the ports

1:10:39 > 1:10:43against weapons being smuggled in, but at the same time immediately

1:10:43 > 1:10:52improve the access.The missile attack on Riyadh takes the conflict

1:10:52 > 1:10:56to a new and dangerous phase, sending ripples through the Muslim

1:10:56 > 1:11:02world who are being urged to take sides, Sunni versus Shia, with a

1:11:02 > 1:11:08recent cold war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Can my right honourable

1:11:08 > 1:11:14friend outlined the ways that we are tackling the deadlock and engaging

1:11:14 > 1:11:17with the humanitarian process?Can I thank my honourable friend for her

1:11:17 > 1:11:21perceptive question because it goes to the heart of this. This is

1:11:21 > 1:11:25another conflict in a region which is being fought out over people who

1:11:25 > 1:11:30don't deserve it and where the issues between regional powers have

1:11:30 > 1:11:35come into direct confrontation. My honourable friend is right to say

1:11:35 > 1:11:42the sophistication of the missile launched, at the Saudi equivalent of

1:11:42 > 1:11:45Heathrow, takes the conflict into a different sphere and had that

1:11:45 > 1:11:50missile landed on the airport, had it destroyed civilian airliners,

1:11:50 > 1:11:55passengers from all over the world, including possibly from the UK, we

1:11:55 > 1:12:00would have been facing a still greater crisis. My honourable friend

1:12:00 > 1:12:05is right to say our actions are not just perceived in relation to this

1:12:05 > 1:12:09particular conflict, they are perceived in relation to a wider

1:12:09 > 1:12:13issue between legitimacy and those who would seek to disrupt it, which

1:12:13 > 1:12:18is why again we need to bend all our efforts in the first place on the

1:12:18 > 1:12:23humanitarian side, but on the second to make sure the political

1:12:23 > 1:12:25negotiations and solutions improves the situation and does not make it

1:12:25 > 1:12:34worse.All of us would condemn the attack on Riyadh, the missile

1:12:34 > 1:12:40attack, but can I expressed some surprise that the Minister has been

1:12:40 > 1:12:45reluctant in using the word blockade? When the United Nations

1:12:45 > 1:12:50are warning that diesel and petrol will run dry inside a month and when

1:12:50 > 1:12:55we know that within that month 100,000 children already

1:12:55 > 1:13:00malnourished will die and Save the Children are saying 130 are dying

1:13:00 > 1:13:07every single day now, as well as pushing for the political solution

1:13:07 > 1:13:11which is absolutely necessary, is he giving any indication at all to

1:13:11 > 1:13:16Saudi Arabia that they could be in any way accountable for the deaths

1:13:16 > 1:13:27of what could be millions of people? Well again, I think the term that is

1:13:27 > 1:13:32described is less material than the impact. The impact of these

1:13:32 > 1:13:35restrictions are very clear. It has led to what the agencies have said

1:13:35 > 1:13:40about the warning about the running out of fuel, food and water and it

1:13:40 > 1:13:44is one of the reasons why the United Kingdom has called last week and

1:13:44 > 1:13:47again today for the immediate lifting of these restrictions

1:13:47 > 1:13:53subject to what we believe is reasonable controls by the coalition

1:13:53 > 1:13:56authorities to protect themselves. There is no doubt about the

1:13:56 > 1:14:01seriousness of this. I am not making any point about whether it is called

1:14:01 > 1:14:05a blockade or restrictions, it is the impact that is important and

1:14:05 > 1:14:09that is why we must work to relieve it with our partners as quickly as

1:14:09 > 1:14:15possible.I referred to the register. Given the supposition that

1:14:15 > 1:14:22the rebels will not engage in the important UN led process unless Iran

1:14:22 > 1:14:26allows them, and there is no interest in Iran to thaw relations

1:14:26 > 1:14:32with Saudi Arabia or improve Saudi Arabia's perception in the world,

1:14:32 > 1:14:39how does my right honourable friend CP is being delivered?Again, Mr

1:14:39 > 1:14:43Speaker, my honourable friend speaks with knowledge of the area and again

1:14:43 > 1:14:50another question which goes to the heart of the issue. Our perception

1:14:50 > 1:14:54is of course there are always channels available to different

1:14:54 > 1:14:59parties in conflict. It is one of the reasons why all the parties to

1:14:59 > 1:15:04the process are so important. We hope firstly that common humanity

1:15:04 > 1:15:08prevails in terms of what is being inflicted on the people of Yemen as

1:15:08 > 1:15:14a result of the insurgency, the attempted removal of a legitimate

1:15:14 > 1:15:18government and all that has flowed from it, and that the parties will

1:15:18 > 1:15:20appreciate there is no military solution and there has to be a

1:15:20 > 1:15:27political one. That applies to all parties. There are skilled

1:15:27 > 1:15:31negotiators, not least the UN special representative, those in the

1:15:31 > 1:15:35countries in the area who wish to see an end to this conflict because

1:15:35 > 1:15:39of the pain being suffered, and I pay tribute to the governments in

1:15:39 > 1:15:42the region who are attempting to mediate with both sides and the

1:15:42 > 1:15:48United Kingdom will give them every support.Can the Minister say a

1:15:48 > 1:15:52little bit more about practically how he thinks the security concerns

1:15:52 > 1:15:56of Saudi Arabia can be addressed to allow access to the humanitarian aid

1:15:56 > 1:16:06into Yemen?Mr Speaker, to answer the honourable lady, there is a UN

1:16:06 > 1:16:13verification and inspection mechanism which the UN works through

1:16:13 > 1:16:21its professionals and technicians to provide the tools for ensuring that

1:16:21 > 1:16:24supplies coming into ports are subject to the right sort of

1:16:24 > 1:16:30testing. My understanding is that the UN and Saudi Arabia are in

1:16:30 > 1:16:35contact in relation to this and that we would wish them to get on site as

1:16:35 > 1:16:44quickly as possible to do this. The problem I think with the smuggling

1:16:44 > 1:16:48of weapons is that they can go through various routes and that is

1:16:48 > 1:16:52always difficult, but we have to respond to the concerns of those who

1:16:52 > 1:16:58have had improved and increasingly sophisticated missiles targeting

1:16:58 > 1:17:01against them before there is a further catastrophe, but it should

1:17:01 > 1:17:06not be impossible to be able to satisfy security conditions as well

1:17:06 > 1:17:15as relieve humanitarian problems.I would highlight my entry in the

1:17:15 > 1:17:18register of members Brahma interests as someone in the past two has on a

1:17:18 > 1:17:23number of occasions spent time in Yemen. Can I associate myself with

1:17:23 > 1:17:26marks from both sides of the House with the tragedy befalling that

1:17:26 > 1:17:33country. The immediate priority must be the alleviation of humanitarian

1:17:33 > 1:17:38suffering, but would he agree with me that the UK should and must

1:17:38 > 1:17:42continue its work to facilitate a multilateral ceasefire followed by a

1:17:42 > 1:17:48political solution but that to have any long-term success, ultimately it

1:17:48 > 1:17:54must emerge among those in the conflict and not be imposed

1:17:54 > 1:18:00externally?Can I thank my oral friend who speaks with some

1:18:00 > 1:18:05knowledge of the area and the subject. Firstly, I would like to

1:18:05 > 1:18:08commend the efforts that Matthew Rycroft are permanent representative

1:18:08 > 1:18:12at the UN has been making in order to drive the UN process, and also

1:18:12 > 1:18:18our ambassador to Yemen for the efforts they have made to try and

1:18:18 > 1:18:23bring the parties together. Ultimately it must and should be the

1:18:23 > 1:18:29Yemeni solution. If we could go back to the opportunities presented by

1:18:29 > 1:18:32the National dialogue with the people of Yemen were so close to

1:18:32 > 1:18:34something different for them before those who have traditionally held

1:18:34 > 1:18:41power through the gun in the country reasserted themselves, that is the

1:18:41 > 1:18:46solution we would all wish for. But the reality is that will only come

1:18:46 > 1:18:50about when there is agreement between the current parties in the

1:18:50 > 1:18:57conflict to have to find a way to set their weapons aside.The closure

1:18:57 > 1:19:01of the airport has reportedly cost over 10,000 lives as it continues to

1:19:01 > 1:19:05restrict humanitarian assistance to stop it is paramount that the

1:19:05 > 1:19:11airport is open immediately. Exactly what recent representations has the

1:19:11 > 1:19:15Secretary of State made to the Saudi led coalition on reopening the

1:19:15 > 1:19:20international airport in Yemen?We agree with the honourable lady. It

1:19:20 > 1:19:26is not just a question of getting supplies in, it is getting

1:19:26 > 1:19:31humanitarian workers in and medical cases out. There is worry about the

1:19:31 > 1:19:35airspace around which is why there have been restrictions and concerns

1:19:35 > 1:19:40there. We recognise the importance of the airport and it is one of

1:19:40 > 1:19:44those areas of access that we would wish to see reopened as quickly as

1:19:44 > 1:19:52possible.

1:19:56 > 1:20:00It is highly commendable that the UK is the fourth-largest humanitarian

1:20:00 > 1:20:05donor to Yemen but equally we play a key role in diplomatic talks, not

1:20:05 > 1:20:09least with Saudi Arabia. So can the Minister give assurances that all

1:20:09 > 1:20:14pressure is being kept up on Saudi Arabia to get access lines open

1:20:14 > 1:20:16because Yemen are pretty much completely reliant on imports of

1:20:16 > 1:20:24food.Mr Speaker, my honourable friend against beaks with knowledge,

1:20:24 > 1:20:29some 90% of the food and supplies that Yemen needs is imported into

1:20:29 > 1:20:34the country. That is why these issues surrounding the ports and the

1:20:34 > 1:20:40airport are so very important. Again, the question makes it clear

1:20:40 > 1:20:44how important these issues are to the people of Yemen but why the

1:20:44 > 1:20:47United Kingdom is so engaged, not only in dealing directly with

1:20:47 > 1:20:52parties of the coalition, whose security concerns we understand, but

1:20:52 > 1:20:56we must also appreciate the humanitarian consequences of the

1:20:56 > 1:21:01actions they are taking to protect themselves.It is worth noting that

1:21:01 > 1:21:06the alliance in starting this war against a legitimate government is a

1:21:06 > 1:21:10brutal army that has done some brutal things and if you read the UN

1:21:10 > 1:21:16reports, you will see that. And the distances 750 miles to Riyadh, we

1:21:16 > 1:21:19are not talking about missiles made at the local foundry, this is

1:21:19 > 1:21:25high-tech imported equipment. And the vast majority of people

1:21:25 > 1:21:27suffering are in rebel held territory and they are blocking the

1:21:27 > 1:21:34peace process and what can we do to get them involved in peace in Yemen?

1:21:34 > 1:21:38I am grateful to the honourable gentleman who against beaks with

1:21:38 > 1:21:44some knowledge on the subject. And he puts some necessary balance into

1:21:44 > 1:21:49the conversation. Because it is much easier to pick up media interest in

1:21:49 > 1:21:54the Saudis and the coalition, it has been harder to talk about what the

1:21:54 > 1:21:59insurgency has done but he rightly points the finger at the numerous

1:21:59 > 1:22:03atrocities and human rights abuses they have conducted and their

1:22:03 > 1:22:09willingness to bring in missiles to spread the conflict emphasises how

1:22:09 > 1:22:14important it is to bring it to an end and why it is so important to

1:22:14 > 1:22:18support those who are trying to legitimately prevent them take over

1:22:18 > 1:22:28a country and subject them to more conflict and it will rule. -- ill

1:22:28 > 1:22:33rule.It is universal children's Day and it is estimated by the UN that

1:22:33 > 1:22:36over 2 million children are starving in Yemen, can the Minister assure

1:22:36 > 1:22:43the House that the government is doing all it can to enable aid in

1:22:43 > 1:22:48Yemen?Again, I can absolutely assure my honourable friend and we

1:22:48 > 1:22:54are doing that. I draw attention to their being two sides in this

1:22:54 > 1:22:58conflict and to make sure that both are contributing to an end to the

1:22:58 > 1:23:02conflict because that is the only thing that will make sure that in

1:23:02 > 1:23:07those areas that are currently under insurgent control that access to

1:23:07 > 1:23:11food, medicine and water is given. The heart-rending pictures of those

1:23:11 > 1:23:15children who are suffering is an affront on a day like today which is

1:23:15 > 1:23:22why we must continue to give all our efforts to bring every blue -- bring

1:23:22 > 1:23:29a conclusion to this conflict.He hopes it will be dealt with by

1:23:29 > 1:23:32diplomatic means, but if the blockade continues, due to the

1:23:32 > 1:23:37pressing nature of the crisis, will the British government give

1:23:37 > 1:23:43sanctions against the Saudis especially in terms of arms exports?

1:23:43 > 1:23:48Again, I have to say to the honourable gentleman, we are some

1:23:48 > 1:23:54way away from that. We are working extremely hard with the coalition to

1:23:54 > 1:23:58understand the impact of those who would bring missiles to target their

1:23:58 > 1:24:03airports and the civilian population and I think threatening them with

1:24:03 > 1:24:09sanctions in this situation are not appropriate. And to only recognise

1:24:09 > 1:24:12one side in this conflict only gives comfort to those who wish to prolong

1:24:12 > 1:24:17the conflict -- prolong the conflict. I am sure he doesn't mean

1:24:17 > 1:24:22to convey that but that is why we are working so hard at a negotiated

1:24:22 > 1:24:27solution to the good office of states in the region.The conflict

1:24:27 > 1:24:37in Yemen has led to a cholera outbreak which has affected --

1:24:37 > 1:24:40caused the death of 2000 people. With the Yemeni medical system

1:24:40 > 1:24:49having collapsed, what has been done to stem the spread of cholera, which

1:24:49 > 1:24:53is treatable and to make sure people have access to clean thinking water

1:24:53 > 1:24:58which for too many people has been out of reach due to rising prices,

1:24:58 > 1:25:05lack of fuel for delivery and the blockade?I am grateful to him. One

1:25:05 > 1:25:09of the problems in the region has been the nonpayment of Public health

1:25:09 > 1:25:15workers. And I have had three conversations with the current

1:25:15 > 1:25:20president of Yemen to urge the government of Yemen to make finance

1:25:20 > 1:25:24available to pay those workers whose job it is to try and assist those

1:25:24 > 1:25:31who might be likely to get cholera. I know that some of the aid agencies

1:25:31 > 1:25:34have stepped into the breach and paid people to do the same which has

1:25:34 > 1:25:40been magnificent. But the United Kingdom has played its part, we have

1:25:40 > 1:25:45given £27 million to Unicef to treat children with acute knowledge fish

1:25:45 > 1:25:50in and provide safe water supply and to support mobile health clinics

1:25:50 > 1:25:56with a specific £6 million allocated towards cholera response. We have

1:25:56 > 1:26:01supported a vaccination programme but access is vital in relation to

1:26:01 > 1:26:05this. We work with partners and that is the way to help tackle the

1:26:05 > 1:26:12cholera epidemic.I would like to condemn in the strong as possible

1:26:12 > 1:26:16terms the missile attack on a civilian target in Riyadh, there

1:26:16 > 1:26:20have been many attacks on civilian targets in Yemen, I would like to

1:26:20 > 1:26:28ask the Minister what plans the government has in terms of the arms

1:26:28 > 1:26:35trade with Saudi Arabia?As has been mentioned before, arms licences in

1:26:35 > 1:26:40the United Kingdom are subject to strict controls. Everything is done

1:26:40 > 1:26:46on a case-by-case basis. In terms of international humanitarian law, I

1:26:46 > 1:26:52would stress to the House that we talk about the compliance of

1:26:52 > 1:26:56humanitarian law with the Saudi Arabian government and other members

1:26:56 > 1:27:02of the coalition. Saudi Arabia has said it will investigate reports of

1:27:02 > 1:27:09violations of international law. The joint incidence assessment team has

1:27:09 > 1:27:13announced the findings of 36 investigations with the most isn't

1:27:13 > 1:27:19released on 12 of September 2017 so it is all taken very seriously and

1:27:19 > 1:27:23he is right to condemn the missile attack as well, as he did at the

1:27:23 > 1:27:28beginning of his comments. Could be Minister please outline to the House

1:27:28 > 1:27:32what this government is doing to bring all parties together so that

1:27:32 > 1:27:36we can find a collective solution to this tragedy? The efforts to bring

1:27:36 > 1:27:43all parties together have pursued a number of different lines,

1:27:43 > 1:27:48effectively from this summer onwards and the months before that. The New

1:27:48 > 1:27:53York General Assembly am I hosted a meeting of the so-called quad, the

1:27:53 > 1:28:02United States, UAE, Saudi Arabia and the UN in order to see what could be

1:28:02 > 1:28:08achieved. There is a meeting of the quad and the Quint, which includes

1:28:08 > 1:28:20the Armani Burrell macro because we believe -- with Omar and. To work

1:28:20 > 1:28:29with those using back channels to make sure there is no future in what

1:28:29 > 1:28:32they are doing in terms of conflict but there are have to say those in

1:28:32 > 1:28:36the region, I have to be clear about this, there are people who make

1:28:36 > 1:28:43money out of the conflict. Too many Yemenis has said there are too many

1:28:43 > 1:28:46involved in the conflict that are comfortable with it going on. It is

1:28:46 > 1:28:50hard for us to understand how dreadful that is but it is true. We

1:28:50 > 1:28:54have do make sure that getting to peace is more beneficial for more

1:28:54 > 1:29:01people than those who wish to perpetrate war.The firing of

1:29:01 > 1:29:06short-range ballistic missiles towards Riyadh is designed to be

1:29:06 > 1:29:13provocative. I am worried by some reports that the insurgents are now

1:29:13 > 1:29:19able to manufacture a short list could missile, perhaps a KR one. But

1:29:19 > 1:29:24I can't believe they would have that level of sophistication, could I ask

1:29:24 > 1:29:30my right honourable friend for his opinion.There are some matters on

1:29:30 > 1:29:37which I am really unqualified. And on which my honourable friend's

1:29:37 > 1:29:41background and others in the House would be rather greater. I have no

1:29:41 > 1:29:44comment to make on the detailed sophistication of weaponry used in

1:29:44 > 1:29:50the conflict except to say that some very sophisticated weaponry appears

1:29:50 > 1:29:55to be coming in that is a threat to the region as a whole and through

1:29:55 > 1:29:59that, to all of us. You'll agree the self effacement of the Minister of

1:29:59 > 1:30:07State is not only unsurpassed, it is unequalled in this House.Mr Kevin

1:30:07 > 1:30:12Foster.Thank you Mr Speaker. I welcome the Minister's statement and

1:30:12 > 1:30:16his comments so far in recognition of the humanitarian disaster in

1:30:16 > 1:30:22Yemen. Can he perhaps explain a bit more on the exact work we will be

1:30:22 > 1:30:28doing as a member of the Security Council to help the UN get the aid

1:30:28 > 1:30:35that is desperately needed into Yemen?Mr Speaker, holding the pen

1:30:35 > 1:30:41at the UN, meaning that within the Security Council, the United Kingdom

1:30:41 > 1:30:47has the primary responsibility among the Security Council for efforts to

1:30:47 > 1:30:51secure support for a negotiated peace, the UK sponsored a

1:30:51 > 1:30:55presidential statement agreed on the 15th of June. That was an important

1:30:55 > 1:31:00statement of international concern in terms of the deteriorating

1:31:00 > 1:31:08humanitarian situation. That work is going on in the UN all the time to

1:31:08 > 1:31:12convert that into action.I am grateful to the Minister for coming

1:31:12 > 1:31:16to the House today with his statement and for continuing to keep

1:31:16 > 1:31:22us updated. I wonder if he can outline efforts that the government

1:31:22 > 1:31:27and diplomatic staff are undertaking to unlock the political deadlock of

1:31:27 > 1:31:34this terrible situation?Mr Speaker, part of the problem as I alluded to

1:31:34 > 1:31:39a moment ago is that some parties have become comfortable with the

1:31:39 > 1:31:45conflict and some parties in Yemen have been able to make a living with

1:31:45 > 1:31:53the conflict going on. And there have to be incentives to people to

1:31:53 > 1:31:58make sure that a piece can be reached. To most of us, this is

1:31:58 > 1:32:01horrendous, that anyone should be in that position but the reality is

1:32:01 > 1:32:05that after a couple of years of conflict in the region have to be

1:32:05 > 1:32:10understood. You talk to Yemeni s themselves to understand their

1:32:10 > 1:32:14frustration, that is where the will of states must come in in order to

1:32:14 > 1:32:20make sure they can enforce a negotiated peace but above all make

1:32:20 > 1:32:23sure that those responsible for others realise that the only future

1:32:23 > 1:32:27for the people of Yemen is not in a continual state of conflict but in

1:32:27 > 1:32:32having a government of the consent of the people that can take a

1:32:32 > 1:32:36wonderful country full of culture and music and architecture and all

1:32:36 > 1:32:40of the good things that we rarely talk about, give those people a

1:32:40 > 1:32:49chance of the future they richly deserve.Unicef itself has praised

1:32:49 > 1:32:52the UK for the aid it has contributed to the country and I

1:32:52 > 1:32:57wonder if he would say a little more about the pressure that he feels can

1:32:57 > 1:33:01be brought on Iraq and to end its supply to the insurgents who are

1:33:01 > 1:33:06still indulging in things like forced marriage and the use of

1:33:06 > 1:33:16children as soldiers?Our relationship with Iraq is changing

1:33:16 > 1:33:27-- with Iraq and -- with Iran. There are many things of difference

1:33:27 > 1:33:31between us, not least their support for what we consider to be

1:33:31 > 1:33:36insurgency and terrorist action, how they see the world is different to

1:33:36 > 1:33:41others in the region. But the logical consequence of that not

1:33:41 > 1:33:47being addressed is dire. If there are pathways to encourage people to

1:33:47 > 1:33:54see their region differently and to try and create relationships that

1:33:54 > 1:33:58would at present seem difficult, then the United Kingdom's role is to

1:33:58 > 1:34:01encourage that. Already there are relationships in the region that 50

1:34:01 > 1:34:04years ago you would not have expected between certain states in

1:34:04 > 1:34:08the region. So who knows what can happen in the future and we will do

1:34:08 > 1:34:14what we can to help those in the region to encourage them towards a

1:34:14 > 1:34:19regional situation which no longer relies on confrontation but on

1:34:19 > 1:34:28consensual support for their peoples.I refer members to my entry

1:34:28 > 1:34:32into the register of interests. Considering the awful humanitarian

1:34:32 > 1:34:40situation, despite the missile being fired into Saudi Arabia, does he

1:34:40 > 1:34:45believe that it is possible to get more aid, through trusted UK aid to

1:34:45 > 1:34:47the Yemeni people?

1:34:53 > 1:34:58I can say to my honourable friend that although there is some access

1:34:58 > 1:35:02through the southern ports, the quality of access is not good enough

1:35:02 > 1:35:06and does not cover enough areas, although we are looking to use any

1:35:06 > 1:35:11means we can with our partners to get aid in. More access is needed

1:35:11 > 1:35:17which is why we want to ensure that the ports are safe for those who

1:35:17 > 1:35:22fear weapons coming in, but are open to the humanitarian access so badly

1:35:22 > 1:35:29needed.Following on from the minister's response to my honourable

1:35:29 > 1:35:32and gallant friend, does he share my concern that there appears to be a

1:35:32 > 1:35:37serious breach of the UN Security Council resolution to the ultimate

1:35:37 > 1:35:42costs and the worsening conditions for the people of Yemen. What can

1:35:42 > 1:35:54the UK do to assist the UN?I honourable friend is right, there is

1:35:54 > 1:35:57a UN investigation taking place into the circumstances surrounding the

1:35:57 > 1:36:02missile. We are certainly concerned about where the parts of that

1:36:02 > 1:36:07missile may well have come from and it could indeed be a breach of the

1:36:07 > 1:36:13arms embargo. We have offered the UN all our technical expertise because

1:36:13 > 1:36:16it is essential that incident is fully investigated as it is unfair

1:36:16 > 1:36:22to cast aspersions if they are not correct, but above all we must stop

1:36:22 > 1:36:26the smuggling getting in because that is part of the key to improving

1:36:26 > 1:36:31humanitarian access.I fear that almost inevitably it will be

1:36:31 > 1:36:34necessary for these matters to be aired again in the chamber before

1:36:34 > 1:36:43very long. Point of order.You may be aware we are awaiting results of

1:36:43 > 1:36:47successful elections in Somalia and all of us in this house are in the

1:36:47 > 1:36:56all-party group are watching closely and that all parties will establish

1:36:56 > 1:37:00mechanisms to resolve grievances. Do you have any notice of any statement

1:37:00 > 1:37:05or update from the Foreign Office on those important elections, not least

1:37:05 > 1:37:09given the UK funding for the imported monitoring mission there?

1:37:09 > 1:37:15The answer is I do not, but I hope it will be forthcoming soon because

1:37:15 > 1:37:19it is a matter of concern to many members across the House. However, I

1:37:19 > 1:37:25might add in parenthesis the honourable member did not know and

1:37:25 > 1:37:29at this moment does not know, but is about to know, namely that in the

1:37:29 > 1:37:33distant past I was myself a member of that all-party group and made

1:37:33 > 1:37:39common cause with the honourable member for Bristol East and it is a

1:37:39 > 1:37:42matter of considerable interest to me as well. I am sure ministers on

1:37:42 > 1:37:45the Treasury bench will have heard what the honourable gentleman has

1:37:45 > 1:37:50said and hope the House will be enlightened before very long. If

1:37:50 > 1:37:54there are no further points of order, we now come to the three

1:37:54 > 1:38:04founding resolutions for the taxation cross-border trade bill.

1:38:04 > 1:38:08Before I called the financial Secretary to the Treasury to move

1:38:08 > 1:38:11the first ways and means motion, I should make clear to the House that

1:38:11 > 1:38:17all three founding resolutions will be debated together. I informed the

1:38:17 > 1:38:23House that I have selected amendments E and F in the name of

1:38:23 > 1:38:29the honourable gentleman, the member for Edinburgh South. To move the

1:38:29 > 1:38:32duties of customers ways and means motion I called the financial

1:38:32 > 1:38:39Secretary to the Treasury.Mel stride. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I beg

1:38:39 > 1:38:48to move the ways and means motion relation to duties in customers.

1:38:48 > 1:38:52Since the decision of the British people to leave the European Union

1:38:52 > 1:38:56in June last year, the government has taken a number of significant

1:38:56 > 1:39:00steps to put that decision into action from triggering Article 50

1:39:00 > 1:39:06two taking forward the European Union withdrawal bill and

1:39:06 > 1:39:09undertaking the extensive consultation and planning that

1:39:09 > 1:39:14informs our negotiating objectives. Madame Deputy Speaker, the

1:39:14 > 1:39:17resolutions before us today represent another essential step in

1:39:17 > 1:39:23this process for what we are here to debate is the legislation for a new

1:39:23 > 1:39:27customs regime to be in place by the time the United Kingdom leaves the

1:39:27 > 1:39:33EU and the EU customs union. In so doing it allows the UK to respond to

1:39:33 > 1:39:37the outcome of the negotiations. I do not need to tell the House how

1:39:37 > 1:39:42important this is. The taxation cross-border trade bill will pave

1:39:42 > 1:39:48the way for new domestic legislation that will enable the UK to establish

1:39:48 > 1:39:52a stand-alone customs regime, including by allowing the UK to

1:39:52 > 1:39:57charge customs duty on goods including those imported from the

1:39:57 > 1:40:00European Union, allowing the government to set out how and in

1:40:00 > 1:40:05what form customs declarations should be made, and giving the UK

1:40:05 > 1:40:09the freedom to vary the raids of import duty as necessary, in

1:40:09 > 1:40:14particular in the case of trade remedies, investigations and for

1:40:14 > 1:40:18developing countries. I will give way.I am extremely grateful to the

1:40:18 > 1:40:26Minister. He mentioned the decision that the government had already

1:40:26 > 1:40:31taken. Before it decided to trigger Article 50 and to begin this

1:40:31 > 1:40:35process, did it give any consideration to the complications

1:40:35 > 1:40:37that would be caused in the relationship between Northern

1:40:37 > 1:40:42Ireland and the Republic of Ireland as was explained to the Foreign

1:40:42 > 1:40:47Affairs Select Committee when we were in Dublin last week?The

1:40:47 > 1:40:51consideration the government gave an exercise in Article 50 was a

1:40:51 > 1:40:55consideration of the decision of the British people in June of last year

1:40:55 > 1:41:00to decide that they wished to leave the European Union. On the specific

1:41:00 > 1:41:04point of Northern Ireland and Ireland border, we have made it very

1:41:04 > 1:41:09clear and we are of the same mind as the European Union and the Irish

1:41:09 > 1:41:13Republic that there should be no return to the borders of the past

1:41:13 > 1:41:18and we are committed to as frictionless a solution as possible

1:41:18 > 1:41:23for the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish public.He

1:41:23 > 1:41:26will be aware that the Irish Prime Minister has called for the UK

1:41:26 > 1:41:30Government to give a written guarantee that there will be no

1:41:30 > 1:41:35border controls. Is the minister able to do that?We have made it

1:41:35 > 1:41:39clear on numerous occasions that we have no intention of reverting to

1:41:39 > 1:41:44the borders of the past, the hard borders, and to make sure that we

1:41:44 > 1:41:50take fully into account the unique political and cultural circumstances

1:41:50 > 1:41:55of Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. Madame Deputy Speaker, in

1:41:55 > 1:41:58addition the bill will modify elements of our excise legislation

1:41:58 > 1:42:05to ensure this functions effectively upon EU exit. The bill will give the

1:42:05 > 1:42:09UK the power to implement new arrangements that will ensure trade

1:42:09 > 1:42:13is as frictionless as possible. I will certainly give way to the

1:42:13 > 1:42:20honourable lady.I thank the Minister. Has he heard the judgment

1:42:20 > 1:42:25of the UK chamber of shipping which talks about absolute catastrophe

1:42:25 > 1:42:32unless issues relating to transport through the pores is resolved? Does

1:42:32 > 1:42:38the government take this issue seriously?The honourable lady

1:42:38 > 1:42:43raises an extremely important point, particularly in relation to pause. I

1:42:43 > 1:42:47have met with the chief executive of the pores in Dover and the staff

1:42:47 > 1:42:52down there and HMRC are variously engaged with all the ports in the

1:42:52 > 1:42:56UK. We recognise the paramount importance of ensuring we have fluid

1:42:56 > 1:43:02trade flows across those ports. The honourable lady will know that in

1:43:02 > 1:43:05the white paper we set out quite clearly the kind of approaches we

1:43:05 > 1:43:12will be taking it necessary in order to ensure that those trade flows are

1:43:12 > 1:43:16indeed rapid and effective and that trade is kept moving. I will give

1:43:16 > 1:43:23way to the honourable lady.He will know from our time on the Finance

1:43:23 > 1:43:26Bill my concern that small businesses in Britain will be

1:43:26 > 1:43:32saddled with the 13th directive on VAT. He has to set out that the

1:43:32 > 1:43:36government intends for a new director to come into place. Can he

1:43:36 > 1:43:39clarify he is expecting British businesses to deal with the 13th

1:43:39 > 1:43:46directive?When we leave the European Union we will gain further

1:43:46 > 1:43:50control over VAT, although that depends upon the precise nature of

1:43:50 > 1:43:55the deal that is negotiated. It may be that we move from acquisition VAT

1:43:55 > 1:44:03to import VAT depending where that particular negotiation lands. As I

1:44:03 > 1:44:06say, the general principle is that the government is entirely committed

1:44:06 > 1:44:11to ensuring that the burdens on businesses are kept to the absolute

1:44:11 > 1:44:18minimum and trade flows are maintained. I give way.The Minister

1:44:18 > 1:44:23will be aware that the white paper on the trade bill was responded to

1:44:23 > 1:44:30quite heavily by manufacturing organisations, not least the ceramic

1:44:30 > 1:44:32federation who are genuinely concerned about the market trade

1:44:32 > 1:44:38remedies that will exist post Brexit in particular on. White goods such

1:44:38 > 1:44:41as tiles and tableware which can undermine the indigenous

1:44:41 > 1:44:47manufacturing base. Can the Minister give some indication as to the

1:44:47 > 1:44:52remedies when we leave the EU? The timing of the publication of the

1:44:52 > 1:44:56bill was very short and we cannot be sure whether those considerations

1:44:56 > 1:45:02have been taken into thought.The time for the closure of the

1:45:02 > 1:45:04consultation and the bulk of the measures to which the honourable

1:45:04 > 1:45:11member refers, these measures will be within days the bill and they are

1:45:11 > 1:45:16trade remedy measures around dumping excessive subsidy and around

1:45:16 > 1:45:21safeguarding. He will know that we take those issues extremely

1:45:21 > 1:45:25seriously and in the event that there is evidence of dumping and

1:45:25 > 1:45:31those other measures to which I have referred, there will be a trade

1:45:31 > 1:45:34remedies authority, the details of which have already been disclosed to

1:45:34 > 1:45:41the House in the trade bill, and that body and the Secretary of State

1:45:41 > 1:45:43at the Department of International trade will be able to work together

1:45:43 > 1:45:48to ensure that when there are issues of dumping and similar activity that

1:45:48 > 1:45:53we are able to take appropriate action in the normal manner. I will

1:45:53 > 1:45:59certainly give way.I thank the Minister. I wonder if he would like

1:45:59 > 1:46:05to comment on how much this will allow the VAT and customs system to

1:46:05 > 1:46:08continue whatever the outcome and whether there is enough flexibility

1:46:08 > 1:46:13built into this depending on what that outcome is?My honourable

1:46:13 > 1:46:18friend raises an important point which goes to the heart of what this

1:46:18 > 1:46:22bill is about. It is a framework Bill and allows us to make sure that

1:46:22 > 1:46:26we can deliver wherever the negotiation lands. It does not

1:46:26 > 1:46:31presuppose any particular outcome as a consequence of the negotiations,

1:46:31 > 1:46:34but it is there to enable those negotiations to be put into effect.

1:46:34 > 1:46:43I will give way.I made it very clear to the people in my

1:46:43 > 1:46:45constituency that I believe in our continuing membership of the customs

1:46:45 > 1:46:53union. Would this motion be able to cope with all eventualities,

1:46:53 > 1:46:57including staying a de facto member of the customs union through a

1:46:57 > 1:47:00period of transition and if everything goes the way I would like

1:47:00 > 1:47:05it to go that we could stay a member of the customs union even with this

1:47:05 > 1:47:11legislation if that is the will of the government and this place?The

1:47:11 > 1:47:16bill deals with is the situation of us leaving the European Union which

1:47:16 > 1:47:22means we will be leaving the customs union. But it does indeed allow for

1:47:22 > 1:47:25a transition period in which that could be a very close customs

1:47:25 > 1:47:31Association with the European Union. The member opposite asked how and he

1:47:31 > 1:47:37sees the bill which will be introduced this evening and he will

1:47:37 > 1:47:44become more enlightened as to how that can occur. It does facilitate a

1:47:44 > 1:47:51period of transition.Is specifically spoke about the ability

1:47:51 > 1:47:55to deliver on all the potential circumstances. Is he aware of the

1:47:55 > 1:48:01Home Office Select Committee report and the discussions with HMRC about

1:48:01 > 1:48:05concerns about the capacity to deal with different customs arrangements?

1:48:05 > 1:48:12The report says the Home Office is only giving an extra 300 staff by

1:48:12 > 1:48:172019 and 1920 HMRC says they need 5000 extra staff. What estimates has

1:48:17 > 1:48:24he made of how many staff are required and what they will cost?We

1:48:24 > 1:48:28will be guided by HMRC, which are closely working with them on those

1:48:28 > 1:48:33issues. John Thompson, the head of HMRC has suggested between 3000 and

1:48:33 > 1:48:385000 staff if we have a Day one contingency scenario if that is

1:48:38 > 1:48:43where we end up. He and HMRC are in discussions with us at the moment as

1:48:43 > 1:48:50to the timing of pressing the button on those particular issues and the

1:48:50 > 1:48:54costs involved. But the honourable member can rest assured that

1:48:54 > 1:48:58whatever resources HMRC requires to make sure that we are ready on day

1:48:58 > 1:49:05one, HMRC will be provided with.Can he sure as that the bill that we do

1:49:05 > 1:49:13not have which we will be able to see, will it contain arrangements

1:49:13 > 1:49:23for sanitary and sanitary regulatory checks at Dover, the Channel Tunnel

1:49:23 > 1:49:28entrance and exit, because they are not there at present? If we would

1:49:28 > 1:49:31introduce customs checks, we would introduce those regulatory checks as

1:49:31 > 1:49:37well. Has the HMRC allowed for that in the budget as well?The

1:49:37 > 1:49:42honourable gentleman makes it sound as if the fact we do not have the

1:49:42 > 1:49:46bill right now is somewhat inappropriate or not right. This is

1:49:46 > 1:49:51a Finance Bill, taxation bill, it is coming in on ways and Means and I

1:49:51 > 1:49:55will introduce the bill at the of this debate and will have the

1:49:55 > 1:49:58opportunity to walk the floor accordingly and to be admired by

1:49:58 > 1:50:02many members across all sides of the House when I do so. He will be aware

1:50:02 > 1:50:11that HMRC and negotiations are ongoing and they will come out of

1:50:11 > 1:50:23those discussions and negotiations in the normal manner.

1:50:23 > 1:50:26With the honourable gentleman agree that there is some false

1:50:26 > 1:50:32misunderstanding. Our trade with the rest of the world is what life will

1:50:32 > 1:50:37be like outside of the EU. We are replicating something that already

1:50:37 > 1:50:41exists around the table with the rest of the world that dwarfs what

1:50:41 > 1:50:50we do with the EU.Our country, our nation is quite capable of making

1:50:50 > 1:50:56sure that wherever the negotiation mans we will have the resources,

1:50:56 > 1:51:01tyrants and wherewithal to make a success of Brexit and engage in our

1:51:01 > 1:51:05future trading arrangements. In terms of the actual bill in that

1:51:05 > 1:51:09context, the important thing is that it does not presuppose any

1:51:09 > 1:51:13particular outcome but it facilitates which ever outcome we

1:51:13 > 1:51:20finally arrived at. I will certainly give way.Would he agree with me

1:51:20 > 1:51:24that it's wrong to say that fighters and to reach checks don't happen at

1:51:24 > 1:51:32the moment. Potentially, at any rate. We experienced it in 2001 with

1:51:32 > 1:51:37the BSE outbreak. These things are real and happen from time to time.

1:51:37 > 1:51:43It is right that we should be able to maintain public health and animal

1:51:43 > 1:51:49health and are perfectly capable of doing so outside the European Union.

1:51:49 > 1:51:53There is nothing in this bill that acts counter to act in the way that

1:51:53 > 1:52:03he has suggested. Very glad to give way.I'm very grateful. 80% of the

1:52:03 > 1:52:08UK's freight movement goes through the Channel Tunnel and the port of

1:52:08 > 1:52:13Dover. Anything that delays that processing will cause massive

1:52:13 > 1:52:16backlogs and the physical infrastructure is not yet in place

1:52:16 > 1:52:20to do that. Alongside the bill, does he believe that we need to make sure

1:52:20 > 1:52:23the resources are there so that whatever is on the Seri is in place

1:52:23 > 1:52:28on day one to make sure the physical infrastructure can support

1:52:28 > 1:52:31cross-channel trade.This is a critical point. These are the issues

1:52:31 > 1:52:38I discussed with the Chief Executive at Dover when I visited. I have

1:52:38 > 1:52:43regular discussions with HMRC on these matters and they in turn have

1:52:43 > 1:52:47regular Round Table events and a close association particularly with

1:52:47 > 1:52:52the Port of Dover. He is absolutely right that we have to make sure that

1:52:52 > 1:52:56trade is fluid and moves quickly across that border and he will have

1:52:56 > 1:53:01noted the suggestions set down in the White Paper in that respect with

1:53:01 > 1:53:05the pre-lodging of customs declarations away from the port,

1:53:05 > 1:53:08indeed, from Calais in that particular instance and making sure

1:53:08 > 1:53:12that we have the right inventory software available in the Port

1:53:12 > 1:53:16itself so we can match of the goods in coming against the declarations

1:53:16 > 1:53:25to make sure that we keep the flow going. If I may just finished. As to

1:53:25 > 1:53:29his specific question about whether I believe we are ready. I do believe

1:53:29 > 1:53:34that we will be ready. I believe that the IT system that is coming in

1:53:34 > 1:53:40place will be ready by January and we will start seeing businesses and

1:53:40 > 1:53:44trade is migrating to that system in August next year. We will be in the

1:53:44 > 1:53:48position that we want to be come they won. I give way to the right

1:53:48 > 1:53:54honourable gentleman.In the meeting that he had with the Port of Dover

1:53:54 > 1:54:01and I have also met with them, what did the Chief Executive say about

1:54:01 > 1:54:06the extra average processing time per vehicle for the port to stop

1:54:06 > 1:54:12functioning?The figure is very low. It's a matter of a couple of

1:54:12 > 1:54:16minutes. If the system stopped for more than a couple of minutes, you

1:54:16 > 1:54:21would start to see major problems which is why we're placing such an

1:54:21 > 1:54:28extremely high priority on making sure that our ports continue as

1:54:28 > 1:54:36effectively as they should do. I give way to the honourable lady.I

1:54:36 > 1:54:42thank him for his fulsome responses. How does it relate to our biggest

1:54:42 > 1:54:49port by value, Heathrow Airport, will Heathrow be ready for this

1:54:49 > 1:54:55process when it comes in? Absolutely, Madame Deputy Speaker,

1:54:55 > 1:55:02in the case of Dover, most of the traffic is trade within the U

1:55:02 > 1:55:06whereas a high proportion of the trade going into Heathrow is more

1:55:06 > 1:55:09international than simply the European Union. There is greater

1:55:09 > 1:55:17engagement already with third country trading, as it were. We are

1:55:17 > 1:55:21confident that Heathrow will be ready. I give way to my honourable

1:55:21 > 1:55:27friend.I thank my right honourable friend who is making a typically

1:55:27 > 1:55:31powerful and effective exposition on this incredibly complex and detailed

1:55:31 > 1:55:37area. Would he agree that it is really important for Channel 4 is

1:55:37 > 1:55:43that there is parking facilities and resilience will turn off the 20 so

1:55:43 > 1:55:47that whatever eventuality arises, in terms of needing to do checks,

1:55:47 > 1:55:51whether it's be for animal health or customs purposes, that we have the

1:55:51 > 1:55:56facilities in place on day one?I thank my honourable friend for that

1:55:56 > 1:56:02intervention. Before I address his specific question I thank him also

1:56:02 > 1:56:07for the insights and I have to say fairly powerful lobbying that he has

1:56:07 > 1:56:13quite rightly made on behalf of the Port of Dover and his constituents.

1:56:13 > 1:56:17As to the specific question of being ready in terms of infrastructure, we

1:56:17 > 1:56:23certainly recognise that we need to have infrastructure there, that the

1:56:23 > 1:56:30port itself would not be generally able to handle a large number of

1:56:30 > 1:56:35stoppages, for example at any one time, and I have been down to the

1:56:35 > 1:56:40port to inspect the facilities there and I certainly appreciate that. It

1:56:40 > 1:56:45is something that is receiving ongoing consideration. I give way to

1:56:45 > 1:56:51the right honourable lady.Thank you. Could he tell us what financial

1:56:51 > 1:56:58provision is going to be made if operation stamp is going to be

1:56:58 > 1:57:02required to put into practice on the 20 every week or of not more so if

1:57:02 > 1:57:12there is a blockage at the port? Operation stamp, not because of a

1:57:12 > 1:57:14general deficiency in customs arrangements but because of what

1:57:14 > 1:57:19happened on the French side of the channel, in the event that those

1:57:19 > 1:57:23situations occur again, which I suppose it could do, irrespective of

1:57:23 > 1:57:27the arrangements we have for customs, the government will make

1:57:27 > 1:57:31sure that we have sufficient resource to deal with that

1:57:31 > 1:57:36eventuality. As I said, in terms of the customs arrangements themselves

1:57:36 > 1:57:41under resourcing of the facilities and the arrangement we need to put

1:57:41 > 1:57:44into place, we are confident that they will be there to keep the

1:57:44 > 1:57:54traffic moving on day one. Very happy to give way.In the interests

1:57:54 > 1:58:01of my constituents as well, could the Minister confirm perhaps in

1:58:01 > 1:58:05writing afterwards, that the £250 million that the government

1:58:05 > 1:58:18allocated in the Autumn Statement two years ago towards the relief

1:58:18 > 1:58:23parking that those funds are still available. My constituents would

1:58:23 > 1:58:25benefit from knowing that the budget allocated towards the project is

1:58:25 > 1:58:32still there.I think in terms of making progress, Kazi have taken a

1:58:32 > 1:58:35large number of interventions, I will do as my right honourable

1:58:35 > 1:58:40friend suggests and write to him on the specifics he has raised.Working

1:58:40 > 1:58:46in tandem with the trade bill that was introduced in Parliament next

1:58:46 > 1:58:50month, all of that which is providing content unity in

1:58:50 > 1:58:57transition that everybody which to see.Let me be with the house that

1:58:57 > 1:59:01the EU will leave the custom into union, it is a critical factor of

1:59:01 > 1:59:05allowing the UK to forge a new relationship with new partners

1:59:05 > 1:59:11around the world, leaving the EU customs union will allow the UK to

1:59:11 > 1:59:14negotiate its own trade agreements. Trade agreements that will be solely

1:59:14 > 1:59:19based around the UK's national interest and needs and yet we will

1:59:19 > 1:59:23also need to make sure we have an ambitious new customers relationship

1:59:23 > 1:59:29with the EU that allows us to keep trade as free and frictionless as

1:59:29 > 1:59:33possible. As the Prime Minister has been clear, while we are leaving the

1:59:33 > 1:59:39Yukon what we are not leaving Europe. Having mutually beneficial

1:59:39 > 1:59:43customs, VAT and excise arrangements is clearly a benefit to all sides.

1:59:43 > 1:59:47We've been hearing from hundreds of businesses about this matter since

1:59:47 > 1:59:54the referendum. The government remains firmly committed to removing

1:59:54 > 1:59:58any physical land border structure between Ireland and the UK, as we

1:59:58 > 2:00:03have said. This is a point of absolute importance. Their

2:00:03 > 2:00:07commitment to the Good Friday Agreement and their focus on

2:00:07 > 2:00:11flexible and creative solutions to avoid a hard border. We look forward

2:00:11 > 2:00:22to making progress on these issues. Ensuring EU and UK trade that is

2:00:22 > 2:00:24frictionless as possible and avoiding a hard border on the island

2:00:24 > 2:00:31of Ireland, the government has set out to options. One is a highly

2:00:31 > 2:00:36streamlined customs arrangement. This includes numbers of measures to

2:00:36 > 2:00:41avoid barriers to trade, continued access to some facilitation is that

2:00:41 > 2:00:45our trade is currently enjoy. Introducing innovative new

2:00:45 > 2:00:52technology solutions to stop delays. The other is a new customs

2:00:52 > 2:00:57partnership. An unprecedented and innovative approach under which the

2:00:57 > 2:01:01UK would mirror the EU's requirements from imports form the

2:01:01 > 2:01:05rest of the world removing the need for a formal customs border between

2:01:05 > 2:01:09the UK and the year. Either of these options would take time to put in

2:01:09 > 2:01:17place. Cliff edge changes are in no one's interests. Businesses should

2:01:17 > 2:01:20only have two are just wants to new customers relationship. For that

2:01:20 > 2:01:27reason, we are proposing an implementation period during which

2:01:27 > 2:01:30governments in both the UK and the European Union would have time to

2:01:30 > 2:01:36adapt. How long that would last, and the form it takes, would be a matter

2:01:36 > 2:01:40for negotiations. It would of course cover issues beyond customers. As

2:01:40 > 2:01:46the Prime Minister has set out, the duration should be linked as the

2:01:46 > 2:01:56time prepared to test our relationship with the EU, a period

2:01:56 > 2:02:00of about two years. There are sensible steps that we can take now

2:02:00 > 2:02:05to prepare for the future. This bill is one of those steps. It provides a

2:02:05 > 2:02:08new framework for customs regime that will allow the government to

2:02:08 > 2:02:13give effect to a range of outcomes negotiations, including a

2:02:13 > 2:02:17instrumentation period. This Bill will, as far as possible, replicate

2:02:17 > 2:02:25the effect of existing customs union laws. It is only right that the

2:02:25 > 2:02:32government should prepare for all eventualities. This will enable the

2:02:32 > 2:02:37government to have effective customs relations even if a deal is not

2:02:37 > 2:02:42agreed with the EU. That is what the government hopes and expects to

2:02:42 > 2:02:49achieve. This Bill is about laying the groundwork for our successful

2:02:49 > 2:02:53future outside the European Union. Trade is clearly going to be a key

2:02:53 > 2:02:59part of that. The UK has been a great trading nation and the trade

2:02:59 > 2:03:04with non-EU countries is equivalent to about half our exports. Getting

2:03:04 > 2:03:09arrangements right to support that is vital. We need to pursue trade

2:03:09 > 2:03:12deals with partners across the world while at the same time keeping our

2:03:12 > 2:03:18trade with the EU is frictionless as possible and avoiding a hard border

2:03:18 > 2:03:20between Northern Ireland and Ireland. This Bill is a crucial

2:03:20 > 2:03:29stepping stone to these new arrangements.The question is as on

2:03:29 > 2:03:36the order paper. Mr petered out.At last, we have the ways and means

2:03:36 > 2:03:42motion before the house. The Muslim part of it is that it doesn't have

2:03:42 > 2:03:46much to say about practically anything about taxation cross

2:03:46 > 2:03:50borders or trade which is somewhat perplexing given the title of the

2:03:50 > 2:03:56bill. The only word in the title that is in any way reflective of the

2:03:56 > 2:04:01title is the word bill. I wait with bated breath for the customs bill

2:04:01 > 2:04:06which I trust will have in this regard, hopes springs eternal, more

2:04:06 > 2:04:13substance to it. Perhaps we will see more of the same powers, to alter

2:04:13 > 2:04:17primary legislation going into the back pockets of ministers. However,

2:04:17 > 2:04:21in this ways and means motion, if it is the warm acts of the customs

2:04:21 > 2:04:28bill, I imagine it will be just as disappointing, vague, OK, abstruse.

2:04:28 > 2:04:43I look at the recommend is -- observations from the customs bill

2:04:43 > 2:04:48legislating future customs VAT it says routines, making a number of

2:04:48 > 2:04:53observations which are worth highlighting here. In paragraph 1.3

2:04:53 > 2:04:58states that the paper gives rise to an unusually complex mix of legal

2:04:58 > 2:05:02and technical issues within equally complex political constraints. This

2:05:02 > 2:05:06is not our remit to enter into debate about the political

2:05:06 > 2:05:09constraints but a lack of clarity around political constraints makes

2:05:09 > 2:05:17the technical analysis is somewhat more difficult.

2:05:17 > 2:05:23I think that is a fair reflection in measured tones on what we think.

2:05:23 > 2:05:30Neal -- in the manner in which the EU because the Asians have meant

2:05:30 > 2:05:35that the deal that the PM wants name a streamlined customs arrangements

2:05:35 > 2:05:38with the vacillations of the government in general and the back

2:05:38 > 2:05:42secretary in particular and that is very worrying. It is very worrying

2:05:42 > 2:05:46and that the government continues to be dragged kicking and screaming

2:05:46 > 2:05:49into this chamber on any issue it feels comfortable debating and when

2:05:49 > 2:05:54it does it tries to curtail it. The Institute also has something to say

2:05:54 > 2:06:00in that paragraph 5.4 at 5.5, we acknowledge the predicament of

2:06:00 > 2:06:04needing to begin a legislative process before knowing the outcome

2:06:04 > 2:06:06of the negotiations, however, we have concerns about the limited

2:06:06 > 2:06:12level of scrutiny that is lawmaking process allows. Given the political

2:06:12 > 2:06:16uncertainty, the potential for large-scale changes and tight

2:06:16 > 2:06:21timescales, the bill we understand will have the power to amend primary

2:06:21 > 2:06:24legislation using secondary legislation, raising similar

2:06:24 > 2:06:29concerns about delegated powers as with the EU withdrawal bill. And it

2:06:29 > 2:06:33is even dragging its feet on the production of the 58 impact

2:06:33 > 2:06:39assessments from two weeks after the house demanded them. Madam Deputy

2:06:39 > 2:06:42Speaker, the opposition recognises the need for the government to be in

2:06:42 > 2:06:46preparation for an independent customs and tariff regime, this is

2:06:46 > 2:06:50logical and necessary, however that does not mean giving the government

2:06:50 > 2:06:55a blank cheque to concentrate power in the hands of the executive. The

2:06:55 > 2:06:58upcoming taxation cross-border trade bill to outline the powers of the

2:06:58 > 2:07:03new trade remedies authority whose creation as outlined in the

2:07:03 > 2:07:06government's trade bill, let me be clear, while Labour supported the

2:07:06 > 2:07:09creation of a truly independent trade remedies authority to help

2:07:09 > 2:07:14protect UK industry and at by the government on how best to tackle the

2:07:14 > 2:07:18dumping of state subsidised cheap goods on the UK market, we don't

2:07:18 > 2:07:29want to see the authority, high elves --, Hiles by a catastrophe

2:07:29 > 2:07:35best to dismantle key sectors of the UK economy. Instead we want to see a

2:07:35 > 2:07:37trade remedies authority that reports directly to Parliament

2:07:37 > 2:07:41rather than to the Department of International trade. It should have

2:07:41 > 2:07:44representatives from trade, the trade union movement, British

2:07:44 > 2:07:50business elite of the devolved authorities. We will not allow this

2:07:50 > 2:07:56has to be sidestepped by a government consumed by chaos.

2:07:56 > 2:08:03Whether it is by the Henry VIII Paris EU withdrawal bill of the

2:08:03 > 2:08:06delegated powers, this government has shown an unhealthy obsession for

2:08:06 > 2:08:09cementing power in the hands of the executive and shying away from any

2:08:09 > 2:08:16Parliamentary scrutiny. I will.I thank my honourable friend for

2:08:16 > 2:08:20allowing me to intervene at this part of his contribution. It seems

2:08:20 > 2:08:25to me that the mantra of taking back control during the EU referendum

2:08:25 > 2:08:27essentially means taking back control from ministers and not the

2:08:27 > 2:08:33democratically elected parliament. My honourable friend hits the nail

2:08:33 > 2:08:38on the head, that has been the line discovered has taken, the power

2:08:38 > 2:08:43stops in Westminster and does not go beyond. It is quite frankly a sham.

2:08:43 > 2:08:46The government can't bring itself to include in this way is an means

2:08:46 > 2:08:51motion any reference whatsoever to Parliamentary scrutiny. It does not

2:08:51 > 2:08:55like that. At every opportunity even if the government has contempt for

2:08:55 > 2:08:58this house we will show the government will be forced to explain

2:08:58 > 2:09:03why it is so frightened of Parliamentary scrutiny. At every

2:09:03 > 2:09:08corner it will be required to explain in the cold light of day why

2:09:08 > 2:09:12it seems so reluctant to send ministers to the dispatch box to

2:09:12 > 2:09:17explain the government's rationale. Now the government in its full

2:09:17 > 2:09:19generosity will claim that it has set aside eight days to debate the

2:09:19 > 2:09:24withdrawal bill and how it has set aside other days to discuss Brexit

2:09:24 > 2:09:28but in the withdrawal bill itself it is institutionalising the accretion

2:09:28 > 2:09:32of powers to the executive that are quite unheard-of in modern history

2:09:32 > 2:09:39of this country. Madam Deputy Speaker, frankly, we have got the

2:09:39 > 2:09:42front bench huffing and puffing but that is the reality, the accretion

2:09:42 > 2:09:49of power to ministers is absolutely disgraceful. We have to go back to

2:09:49 > 2:09:53the Second World War to see powers of this magnitude and extend

2:09:53 > 2:09:59reserved to the government. And which were after the one is

2:09:59 > 2:10:06practical. They have the good reason in that situation in so far it was a

2:10:06 > 2:10:08national government, a true coalition, united against one of the

2:10:08 > 2:10:14most odious regimes. And the methods being used to save in Parliament are

2:10:14 > 2:10:17quite shocking, mad and everyday Speaker, and I think history will

2:10:17 > 2:10:21treat this government with the contempt it deserves for its

2:10:21 > 2:10:27fictional and attempts to disenfranchise this house.I thank

2:10:27 > 2:10:29the honourable member for giving way and I have patiently listen to what

2:10:29 > 2:10:34he has to say at -- mad and everyday speaker and he has referred to the

2:10:34 > 2:10:36powers within the European withdrawal bill and he has also

2:10:36 > 2:10:44referred to the PRA which is not the, well the operation of the PRA,

2:10:44 > 2:10:48the independence or otherwise of the TRA, which is not actually either of

2:10:48 > 2:10:52the items included in this bill so what is in this bill which he wishes

2:10:52 > 2:10:56to make a point about Madam Deputy Speaker?The honourable member

2:10:56 > 2:11:02misses the point, it is part of the whole process of this government to

2:11:02 > 2:11:06accrue and accrue powers to itself. I know the honourable gentlemen and

2:11:06 > 2:11:11ladies opposite do not seem to grasp the concept of that but that is the

2:11:11 > 2:11:14fact, the fact is that the government continue to pool powers

2:11:14 > 2:11:18to itself and it pulls powers to itself and does not devolve into any

2:11:18 > 2:11:26of the other NES, any of the other nations.I thank you for giving way

2:11:26 > 2:11:29but I think he is struggling on this because it makes evident sense that

2:11:29 > 2:11:31the government should have the powers to be able to deal with all

2:11:31 > 2:11:36eventualities, perhaps you could help by explain to us what is the

2:11:36 > 2:11:41current policy of the Labour Party on the customs union? Can we find

2:11:41 > 2:11:46out, are they in favour or against the remaining in a customs union in

2:11:46 > 2:11:49fact to article to transition? And how they are in favour of staying in

2:11:49 > 2:11:54the customs union by way of a final deal, which I think is an eminently

2:11:54 > 2:11:57good idea.I tell you what we are in favour of, we are in favour of

2:11:57 > 2:12:03Parliament -- Parliamentary scrutiny. And we are in favour of

2:12:03 > 2:12:10Parliamentary scrutiny. It was John Bright who reportedly coined the

2:12:10 > 2:12:14phrase the mother of Parliaments, which is completely alien to the

2:12:14 > 2:12:18side opposite and obviously the honourable lady, I suspect he along

2:12:18 > 2:12:21with many other radical and Conservative parliamentarians would

2:12:21 > 2:12:25be turning in their graves at the idea that the government living on

2:12:25 > 2:12:30borrowed time, living on borrowed time, have the arrogance, hubris and

2:12:30 > 2:12:34others with the blaster to treat Parliament in the fashion this

2:12:34 > 2:12:38government has -- is intent on doing. Members of the other side

2:12:38 > 2:12:40have to ask themselves this question, if their constituents and

2:12:40 > 2:12:45sent them to this house to acquiesce in the systematic stripping away of

2:12:45 > 2:12:49Parliamentary scrutiny, which is not in the national interest, why didn't

2:12:49 > 2:12:54send them here to hold the government of the day to account

2:12:54 > 2:12:57regardless of their party allegiance? However, the minister

2:12:57 > 2:13:01should take seriously the concerns as I have raised, as have many

2:13:01 > 2:13:04others in the house and outside the house about their fast and loose

2:13:04 > 2:13:11approach to the government, approach the government is taking to power it

2:13:11 > 2:13:21is good now. I will.I thank the honourable gentleman. He has not

2:13:21 > 2:13:23answered the incredibly important intervention made by my right

2:13:23 > 2:13:26honourable friend the member for Block store, and can I ask you

2:13:26 > 2:13:32different question, Amendment E, which is the unofficial opposition

2:13:32 > 2:13:36resolution amendment that has been tabled, will he be supporting it or

2:13:36 > 2:13:42not?The fact of the matter is, we are not closing of options, which

2:13:42 > 2:13:45settings to be an obsession, a pathological obsession from other

2:13:45 > 2:13:51sites do. So I hope between now and the second reading, the government

2:13:51 > 2:13:57will consider the importance of comprehensive Parliamentary