0:00:00 > 0:00:02will be very happy to discuss what kind of feedback we can get from the
0:00:02 > 0:00:09department as soon as possible. Statement, the parliamentary
0:00:09 > 0:00:15undersecretary of state for care and mental health. Minister Jackie Doyle
0:00:15 > 0:00:22Price.Thank you. This oral statement is the government's
0:00:22 > 0:00:27responds to the recent opposition they debate on social care on
0:00:27 > 0:00:31Wednesday the 25th of October. Since the debate, the government announced
0:00:31 > 0:00:34further plans for the Green paper on care and support for older people on
0:00:34 > 0:00:38the 16th of November. This oral statement reiterates the substance
0:00:38 > 0:00:44of that announcement while providing further detail to the House and some
0:00:44 > 0:00:48specific areas. An ageing Society means we need to reach a longer-term
0:00:48 > 0:00:53sustainability settlement for social care, which is why the government is
0:00:53 > 0:00:58committed to publishing a green paper by 2018 setting out its
0:00:58 > 0:01:01proposals for reform. And interministerial group is overseeing
0:01:01 > 0:01:05the work. This builds on the additional £2 billion over the next
0:01:05 > 0:01:09three years we have already provided to meet social care needs. In
0:01:09 > 0:01:12developing the Green paper it is right we take the time needed to
0:01:12 > 0:01:18debate the many complex issues and listen to the perspective of experts
0:01:18 > 0:01:21and key users building consensus around reforms that can succeed.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25This is why we are starting a process of initial engagement over
0:01:25 > 0:01:29the coming months through which the government will work with experts,
0:01:29 > 0:01:33stakeholders and users, to shape long-term reforms proposed in the
0:01:33 > 0:01:37Green paper. The government has asked independent experts to provide
0:01:37 > 0:01:45their views, including the two most recent reviews on social care. We're
0:01:45 > 0:01:50also engaging closely with key stakeholders and people who use
0:01:50 > 0:01:53services and their carers. Government will be hosting a number
0:01:53 > 0:01:59of round tables to hear a range of perspectives representing different
0:01:59 > 0:02:03constituencies including service recipients, providers, health
0:02:03 > 0:02:05services, financial services providers, local government and
0:02:05 > 0:02:12working age adults. Once the Green paper is published, it will be
0:02:12 > 0:02:15subject to full public consultation. The government has also recognise
0:02:15 > 0:02:21there is broad agreement across Parliament that reform social care
0:02:21 > 0:02:25is a priority, and is looking forward to hearing many dues. We
0:02:25 > 0:02:30have written to cheers of relevant all party parliamentary groups to
0:02:30 > 0:02:34discuss their priorities and perspectives on reform. The Prime
0:02:34 > 0:02:37Minister has been clear that the consultation will include proposals
0:02:37 > 0:02:42to place a limit on the care costs individuals face. To allow for full
0:02:42 > 0:02:51of engagement and development of the approach, we will not be taking
0:02:51 > 0:02:55forward the previous government's plans to implement a cap on care
0:02:55 > 0:02:59costs in 2020.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03Further details on the Government's plans will be set that after we have
0:03:03 > 0:03:07consulted on the options.The Green paper will focus primarily on the
0:03:07 > 0:03:13care for older people but will consider elements of the adult care
0:03:13 > 0:03:17system regarding all recipients of social care. We are committed to
0:03:17 > 0:03:20ensure that people with disabilities and complex conditions are able to
0:03:20 > 0:03:25live healthy, independent lives and able to participate fully in
0:03:25 > 0:03:29society. Many of the questions and issues about the sustainability of
0:03:29 > 0:03:37the care system will be relevant to adults of all ages. To ensure these
0:03:37 > 0:03:39issues are considered in their own right, the Government has committed
0:03:39 > 0:03:45to bringing forward a parallel programme of work that is being led
0:03:45 > 0:03:48jointly by the Department of health and Department of communities and
0:03:48 > 0:03:52local of at. This work will also be overseen by the interministerial
0:03:52 > 0:03:56group to ensure close alignment with the Green paper. Of course, carers
0:03:56 > 0:04:01are a vital set of partners in the health and social care system and it
0:04:01 > 0:04:05would not make any sense to pursue strategic issues related to carers
0:04:05 > 0:04:10in isolation from the wider work on the future of social care and they
0:04:10 > 0:04:15will therefore be a key part of the Green paper. A sustainable
0:04:15 > 0:04:20settlement for social care will not be possible without focusing on how
0:04:20 > 0:04:27our Society supports carers. The called Riverdance carers in 2016 are
0:04:27 > 0:04:34central to any proposals for the wider social care system -- the call
0:04:34 > 0:04:37for guidance on. We must continue to improve the work and expense of
0:04:37 > 0:04:42carers today and the Government remains fully committed to do so in
0:04:42 > 0:04:45a way they would wish and in a way that supports their own health and
0:04:45 > 0:04:50well-being, their employment and their life chances. So ahead of the
0:04:50 > 0:04:53Green paper's publication, the Department of Health will also be
0:04:53 > 0:04:57publishing an action plan for carers in the New Year, setting priorities
0:04:57 > 0:05:00for a cross Government programme of work to support carers over the next
0:05:00 > 0:05:04two years. In the short and medium-term, we are taking important
0:05:04 > 0:05:12to ensure we stable adult care sector. We are supporting adequate
0:05:12 > 0:05:15great across the system and supporting the network and services
0:05:15 > 0:05:18that keep people living independently belong. It is
0:05:18 > 0:05:21important to recognise that quality across the adult social care sector
0:05:21 > 0:05:26remains good overall. The October 2017 state of care report from the
0:05:26 > 0:05:34CQC found that 80% of adult social care settings had been rated as good
0:05:34 > 0:05:37and outstanding. However, the CQC also underlined there are
0:05:37 > 0:05:39substantial variations in the quality of care depending on where
0:05:39 > 0:05:45people live. Department of health is also working with the adult social
0:05:45 > 0:05:49care sector to implement quality matters, a shared commitment to take
0:05:49 > 0:05:55action to achieve high-quality patient centred adult social care.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58Through our programme sector led improvement, we are supporting
0:05:58 > 0:06:02councils to make savings and improved services by promoting good
0:06:02 > 0:06:08practice, including new approaches. Looking beyond social care
0:06:08 > 0:06:13provision, it is vital to help the broader supporting services that
0:06:13 > 0:06:18help people live longer. This means that well adapted and specialised
0:06:18 > 0:06:22housing is becoming increasingly important and the disability grant
0:06:22 > 0:06:29is to help meet the cost of adapting a property for a person with a
0:06:29 > 0:06:34disability or support need. The budget this year provided an
0:06:34 > 0:06:37additional £42 million for the rest of the financial year, taking
0:06:37 > 0:06:46funding for this year to 440 back at a rate £473 million. This ain't a
0:06:46 > 0:06:51better system everyone can have confidence in where all people
0:06:51 > 0:06:53understand their responsibilities, where all can prepare for their
0:06:53 > 0:06:56future and the care they receive will be to a high standard and help
0:06:56 > 0:07:01them maintain their independence and well-being. This Government wants to
0:07:01 > 0:07:04take the time to consult and build consensus on a long-term sustainable
0:07:04 > 0:07:08settlement for the future which includes looking at the quality of
0:07:08 > 0:07:11care being delivered, the funding of the system and how it will be paid
0:07:11 > 0:07:19for in the round.I thank the Minister for giving me an advance
0:07:19 > 0:07:23sight of her statement. But her statement is a woefully inadequate
0:07:23 > 0:07:27response to the Opposition Day debate we held in this place on
0:07:27 > 0:07:31Wednesday the 25th of October. It in no way addresses the motion passed
0:07:31 > 0:07:36by this House. That motion called on the Government to note the
0:07:36 > 0:07:40Conservative Party's manifesto commitment to a funding proposal for
0:07:40 > 0:07:44social care which would have no cap on care costs and would include the
0:07:44 > 0:07:48value of homes in the means test for care at home and we called on the
0:07:48 > 0:07:51Government not to proceed with their commitment to those proposals. The
0:07:51 > 0:07:54Minister has today finally confirmed what many on these benches
0:07:54 > 0:07:58suspected, that they will not be proceeding with their plans to cap
0:07:58 > 0:08:04care costs by 2020 as legislated by this House. This is a shameful waste
0:08:04 > 0:08:08of taxpayers' money, over £1 million in today's money was spent
0:08:08 > 0:08:13commissioning the deal not review and it is a waste of Parliamentary
0:08:13 > 0:08:16time enacting that cap and it is no good the Minister saying the
0:08:16 > 0:08:20Government are consulting on this cap. They consulted on this during
0:08:20 > 0:08:22the general election and their proposals were rejected by the
0:08:22 > 0:08:28electorate. Meanwhile, many people, very many people, are still faced
0:08:28 > 0:08:32with the catastrophic costs of paying for their care. Our
0:08:32 > 0:08:35Opposition Day debate motion also called on the Government to remove
0:08:35 > 0:08:40the threat to withdraw social care funding and stop fines on local
0:08:40 > 0:08:45authorities for delayed transfers of care. During the debate, I talked
0:08:45 > 0:08:48about how ministers had previously threatened councils with fines and
0:08:48 > 0:08:53further funding cuts to social care, if targets for cutting delayed
0:08:53 > 0:08:59transfers of care could not be met. Fines for targets for half -- that
0:08:59 > 0:09:02half of social care directors believe are unrealistic so can the
0:09:02 > 0:09:05Government confirmed they have listened to the will of the house to
0:09:05 > 0:09:09stop these fines, which merely threaten to make the crisis in
0:09:09 > 0:09:12social care worse? And the Opposition Day debate motion also
0:09:12 > 0:09:16called on the Government to commit to the extra funding needed to close
0:09:16 > 0:09:21the social care funding gap for 2017 and for the remaining years of this
0:09:21 > 0:09:25Parliament. At no point today has the Minister confirmed how the
0:09:25 > 0:09:29Government intends to enact the will of this House in meeting the funding
0:09:29 > 0:09:31gap and, of course, shamefully, there was no mention of social care
0:09:31 > 0:09:36in the recent budget. Our social care system remains in a perilous
0:09:36 > 0:09:41state because of the cuts that this Government has chosen to make. The
0:09:41 > 0:09:43Care Quality Commission has told us the social care system still remains
0:09:43 > 0:09:49at a tipping point. So can the Minister now confirm the Government
0:09:49 > 0:09:53will enact the will of this House and meet the funding gap. The
0:09:53 > 0:09:55Minister in her statement addressed the Government's decision to include
0:09:55 > 0:10:00the views of carers in the upcoming Green paper and their failure to
0:10:00 > 0:10:04respond to the consultation of 6,500 other carers, which has already
0:10:04 > 0:10:10taken place. I have mentioned in the debate and I will say again, Katie
0:10:10 > 0:10:13Stiles, a carer and campaigner for the Motor Neurone Disease
0:10:13 > 0:10:18Association, contributed to that and hope her voice would be heard. She
0:10:18 > 0:10:22told me not publishing the National care strategy has made me extremely
0:10:22 > 0:10:26angry. It sends a message that carers' lives are unimportant, a
0:10:26 > 0:10:30message that the Government thinks we can carry on as we are and it
0:10:30 > 0:10:34sends a message that my own time is of little worth. Can the Minister
0:10:34 > 0:10:40give more details on the scope of the carers' action plan and can she
0:10:40 > 0:10:45reassure 6,500 carers that their time was not wasted. Mr Dev
0:10:45 > 0:10:47disfigure, the Government announced recently and the Minister confirm
0:10:47 > 0:10:50today that working age people with disabilities would be consulted as
0:10:50 > 0:10:56part of a parallel works stream to the Government's Green paper
0:10:56 > 0:11:00consultation. Why a parallel works stream? This is an extremely
0:11:00 > 0:11:04short-sighted approach to reforming social care, far from looking at the
0:11:04 > 0:11:07system in the round. Can she gives more details about the parallel
0:11:07 > 0:11:11works stream for people with disabilities who have social care
0:11:11 > 0:11:15needs? It is clear only a Labour Government can deliver much-needed
0:11:15 > 0:11:18reform to social care. Over the coming months, we will also consult
0:11:18 > 0:11:24experts on how we can move from the current broken system of care to a
0:11:24 > 0:11:28sustainable service for the long-term. We will look out funding
0:11:28 > 0:11:33options for the social care in the long term, such as a new social care
0:11:33 > 0:11:37Levy, an employer care contribution and wealth taxes. These experts will
0:11:37 > 0:11:42help clarify our options for funding our planned National care service
0:11:42 > 0:11:48and our approach will be underpinned by the principal of pooled risk, so
0:11:48 > 0:11:52no one faces catastrophic care costs as they do now or as they would have
0:11:52 > 0:12:00done under the Conservative Party's early dementia tax proposals.Thank
0:12:00 > 0:12:04you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Well, the honourable lady will not be
0:12:04 > 0:12:07surprised that I didn't agree with much of what she said, but some of
0:12:07 > 0:12:13the things, I will address them. Fundamentally, you know, we are
0:12:13 > 0:12:16setting out and it has been long established, we are setting out how
0:12:16 > 0:12:21to get a longer term sustainable system of funding our social care.
0:12:21 > 0:12:25What has been absolutely clear in the debates over the last year is as
0:12:25 > 0:12:29far as the public is concerned, there is a real lack of
0:12:29 > 0:12:32understanding that at present, care has to be met for by the person
0:12:32 > 0:12:36requiring their care. That is what leads to catastrophic care costs and
0:12:36 > 0:12:40that is the dementia tax that she gives referring to and by having a
0:12:40 > 0:12:46cap on overall costs, that is exactly what we are going to tackle.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49But it is very important that in doing so, we take the public with us
0:12:49 > 0:12:53and have a full debate and it doesn't matter how far we think we
0:12:53 > 0:12:57have had that debate in this place by legislating in the past, it is
0:12:57 > 0:13:00quite clear the public don't understand it, so we are only going
0:13:00 > 0:13:05to get public consent for a long-term solution if we have a
0:13:05 > 0:13:09public debate which is handled with maturity and so far, we haven't seen
0:13:09 > 0:13:15very much of that. Now, one of the issues she also raised was the issue
0:13:15 > 0:13:20of carers and their suggestions that carers' voices aren't being heard in
0:13:20 > 0:13:25this debate but I would say very much, they are. Well, she can sit
0:13:25 > 0:13:27there and chanter or listen to the answer to the question, it is
0:13:27 > 0:13:31entirely up to her but it is rather a waste of time for me coming to
0:13:31 > 0:13:37this place if I'm just going to be talked over.I think I can control
0:13:37 > 0:13:40the chamber, but thanks for your help. I've already told him once,
0:13:40 > 0:13:45you don't need to worry. Order. The whip is well aware he is testing my
0:13:45 > 0:13:50patients, so I don't need any help from the Minister.Carers are very
0:13:50 > 0:13:55much being heard but there is in no way that we can actually tackle the
0:13:55 > 0:13:59broad picture of how we fund and how we manage need in terms of social
0:13:59 > 0:14:02care space without properly comparing the -- considering the
0:14:02 > 0:14:08needs of carers. I'm very grateful to the 6,500 people who participated
0:14:08 > 0:14:15to the call for evidence. We have listened to them and we will
0:14:15 > 0:14:21consider what they have said but in the meantime, it is very important
0:14:21 > 0:14:28that we pull together what we have at present and we will be publishing
0:14:28 > 0:14:34that action plan in January of next year. The issue of working age
0:14:34 > 0:14:37adults, to some extent, the honourable lady is right, there are
0:14:37 > 0:14:44some common issues with regards that affect care for the elderly and
0:14:44 > 0:14:47working adults, so those issues that are in common will be considered as
0:14:47 > 0:14:50part of the Green paper process. There is also at the same time, we
0:14:50 > 0:14:53are going through a massive change in how we are dealing with people
0:14:53 > 0:14:58with disabilities. We have very brave ambition to get more and more
0:14:58 > 0:15:04people into work. Through a journey of getting people with learning
0:15:04 > 0:15:07disabilities out of long-term residential care and into a worker
0:15:07 > 0:15:11community and that brings a separate set of challenges, so that is the
0:15:11 > 0:15:14work that will be going on in parallel. The work in the Green
0:15:14 > 0:15:17paper will look at the Commons systems as well as the specific
0:15:17 > 0:15:24areas and care for the elderly. That is not something we can look at as a
0:15:24 > 0:15:27silo, we have got to look at it... Well, she says it should all be
0:15:27 > 0:15:32together but they are very distinct challenges, care for the elderly and
0:15:32 > 0:15:35careful working age adults and I don't think we should diminish
0:15:35 > 0:15:40either constituency by grouping them altogether. As regards the funding
0:15:40 > 0:15:46gap, as she is well aware, we have made £925 billion available to local
0:15:46 > 0:15:50authorities to meet their needs over these three years, but the reality
0:15:50 > 0:15:55is, the way we tackle social care in this country, so everyone gets the
0:15:55 > 0:16:02care they need, as they... As they will get the care they need as they
0:16:02 > 0:16:06come to the later part of their life, we need to build a longer term
0:16:06 > 0:16:10sustainable funding. That is why we are taking for this debate is part
0:16:10 > 0:16:13of the Green paper and I hope that everyone with an interest in the
0:16:13 > 0:16:16subject gets involved in that debate because we are only going to fix
0:16:16 > 0:16:23this long-term if we can take the public with us.The House of Lords
0:16:23 > 0:16:28select committee on the long-term sustainability of the NHS rapidly
0:16:28 > 0:16:32concluded that it would be impossible to carry out their task
0:16:32 > 0:16:36without investigating the interrelated nature of social care,
0:16:36 > 0:16:40and they changed their remit accordingly. The committee changed
0:16:40 > 0:16:45the scope because they recognised that we would not see a long-term
0:16:45 > 0:16:49sustainable solution unless we address both and I'm afraid the
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Green paper that focuses entirely on social care is going to fail to rise
0:16:52 > 0:16:57to the challenge and I would like to ask the Minister, has she read the
0:16:57 > 0:17:04committee's findings? And will she be prepared as she listens to those,
0:17:04 > 0:17:08at an early stage she is consulting with, if the advice from then is
0:17:08 > 0:17:11clearly, as has been the advice from all commissions that have looked at
0:17:11 > 0:17:15this, that they need to consider both health and social care
0:17:15 > 0:17:18together, will she go back to the drawing board and start again and
0:17:18 > 0:17:27look at both health and social care? Just to reassure my honourable
0:17:27 > 0:17:31friend, in terms of the frames of reference for the Green paper, part
0:17:31 > 0:17:34and parcel of getting a long-term sustainable solution to this is very
0:17:34 > 0:17:38much involved in looking at care and I did point out in the statement
0:17:38 > 0:17:42that we need to look at holistic areas of policy in which to deliver
0:17:42 > 0:17:46this, housing being a particular one because if we get housing conditions
0:17:46 > 0:17:50right, we can enable people to live for longer. But the whole purpose of
0:17:50 > 0:17:53having a Green paper and debate is to make sure we do consider this
0:17:53 > 0:18:01issue not as a whole but holistically.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04Can I extend my thanks to the Under-Secretary of State for
0:18:04 > 0:18:08advanced site of the statement. I hope this is not going to be
0:18:08 > 0:18:10something that happens regularly where we have opposition debates
0:18:10 > 0:18:16then months down line the government sneaks in a statement on a Thursday
0:18:16 > 0:18:22morning, I hope this is a one-off. Can we start looking seriously at
0:18:22 > 0:18:25some of the challenges faced of an ageing population. The government
0:18:25 > 0:18:29has its head in the sand as to who will look after these people when we
0:18:29 > 0:18:34restrict freedom of movement. Via social care has been far from
0:18:34 > 0:18:37stability talked about in the election campaign. I welcome what
0:18:37 > 0:18:42has been said regarding the cap, but I want to press the Minister on a
0:18:42 > 0:18:45point which has cross-party consensus in Scotland, and
0:18:45 > 0:18:52particularly the support of the Conservative Party. In Scotland,
0:18:52 > 0:18:59three social care is being extended to under 65. 9000 people will be
0:18:59 > 0:19:03helped, but the UK Government has no intention of bringing in this
0:19:03 > 0:19:06policy.Does she want to meet with us to have a look at this? The
0:19:06 > 0:19:11purpose of a green paper is that we properly debate and challenge the
0:19:11 > 0:19:17options available. I am interested in this. He refers to the fact
0:19:17 > 0:19:20personal care is met by the government, but the actual lion's
0:19:20 > 0:19:28share cost is the residential component which is not met, but we
0:19:28 > 0:19:31need to win from everybody with experience, not only within these
0:19:31 > 0:19:36nations but across the world.I appreciate the importance the
0:19:36 > 0:19:43government has put on social care, but the Minister knows I have a
0:19:43 > 0:19:46strong interest in children social care, so at a time when the number
0:19:46 > 0:19:52of children coming into care continues to rise, when thresholds
0:19:52 > 0:19:56for intervention are rising, and work is going south and the number
0:19:56 > 0:19:59of adoptions has also been diminishing, can she and the
0:19:59 > 0:20:06government give me assurances that the attach the same level of
0:20:06 > 0:20:13importance to challenges being faced by children up and down the country?
0:20:13 > 0:20:19I can absolutely give him that assurance, but I may suggest that
0:20:19 > 0:20:25the Department for Education respond to lose points.Can I say how nice
0:20:25 > 0:20:30it is to see my honourable friend back in her rightful place. Can I
0:20:30 > 0:20:35also endorse what the chair of the select committee said, and I asked
0:20:35 > 0:20:38the Minister, that she regret the Chancellor failed to mention social
0:20:38 > 0:20:45care at all in the budget?We are in danger of getting into a false
0:20:45 > 0:20:50debates because when I talk about social care I do not talk about it
0:20:50 > 0:20:55to the exclusion of health. I automatically include it. When
0:20:55 > 0:21:00people talk about the failure of the Chancellor to mention social care,
0:21:00 > 0:21:04the reality is that more money was made available to the NHS, which
0:21:04 > 0:21:13will benefit the social care system. In the absence of provision I might
0:21:13 > 0:21:17make and do not might have encouraged me to make, is it
0:21:17 > 0:21:21reasonable to expect my social care costs to be paid for by the state,
0:21:21 > 0:21:30but my ears to inherit my substantial housing assets?I think
0:21:30 > 0:21:34he summarises meekly one of the debates we have to have in this
0:21:34 > 0:21:38space, which is, how about we ensure people can achieve care of when they
0:21:38 > 0:21:45need it and it will be paid for while at the same time achieving
0:21:45 > 0:22:02intergenerational fairness. I hope he cooperates fully ...The leader
0:22:02 > 0:22:06of Rochdale council says he needs £20 million to meet the demands of
0:22:06 > 0:22:11the adult care service. Can the Minister give some advice on where
0:22:11 > 0:22:22that £20 million might be found?We have made an additional 9.2 -- 9.2
0:22:22 > 0:22:28million pounds and longer term we are seeing that local authorities
0:22:28 > 0:22:34are being imaginative about how they tackle the need, and we have
0:22:34 > 0:22:41increased the money available through the disability grant, which
0:22:41 > 0:22:45is taking a lot of money out of the system, not least because it is
0:22:45 > 0:22:51allowing people to live at home without the need for support, so I
0:22:51 > 0:22:55would encourage him not just to look at money, but what else to do to
0:22:55 > 0:23:02make things better.First of all I welcome the report and a focus on
0:23:02 > 0:23:09carers and the elderly because that is really important, but care
0:23:09 > 0:23:13institutions already offer good and outstanding service, and on the note
0:23:13 > 0:23:17she just made, it is not just about funding, it is also about other
0:23:17 > 0:23:22measures being introduced to help, for example hospitals linking with
0:23:22 > 0:23:26social care providers, and they are doing a great job already, and their
0:23:26 > 0:23:36end of life care has recently been rated outstanding.We rightly focus
0:23:36 > 0:23:45on the challenges, and it is a lot going right. The Care Quality
0:23:45 > 0:23:54Commission found that 80% of places were good or outstanding, which is
0:23:54 > 0:24:03good for a sector that is publicly criticised.I welcome the idea of a
0:24:03 > 0:24:06green paper and I hope we can build cross-party consensus for the long
0:24:06 > 0:24:11term, but any change will be years away from the Green paper, and the
0:24:11 > 0:24:20problems are here and now for local councils, and DLJ estimates that
0:24:20 > 0:24:26there will be a funding gap of £2.6 million. Care homes are failing
0:24:26 > 0:24:33because local authorities do not have the resources they need. Where
0:24:33 > 0:24:36is the money to make sure an adequate social care system does not
0:24:36 > 0:24:44get even worse next year?I welcome part of his comments. He is right,
0:24:44 > 0:24:49and one of the reasons we are at this stage is the absence of a
0:24:49 > 0:24:54long-term security meaning some of these issues are crystallising
0:24:54 > 0:25:01rather more quickly than they should. We have made more money
0:25:01 > 0:25:03available to local authorities, but local authorities more than any
0:25:03 > 0:25:08other constituency in this place are desperate for a solution, and it is
0:25:08 > 0:25:11incumbent on all of us to have a constructive discussion about the
0:25:11 > 0:25:19solutions. I am aware there are some challenges. Key challenges the CMA
0:25:19 > 0:25:22report. There is a lot in the report which frankly did not surprise me,
0:25:22 > 0:25:26but we will bring forward a response dealing with some of the issues that
0:25:26 > 0:25:34he has in the New Year.Can I thank my honourable friend for her
0:25:34 > 0:25:37statement and encourage her as others have done to engage with the
0:25:37 > 0:25:49whole House on this issue. But could I also stress this incredibly
0:25:49 > 0:25:54important factor of the crisis now in certain areas of the country. We
0:25:54 > 0:26:00must engage on across party bases and on the crisis now, including in
0:26:00 > 0:26:05my constituency.I do not disagree with much he has said. I would also
0:26:05 > 0:26:12say that colleagues are talking about a crisis. It is feared to say
0:26:12 > 0:26:15that we put local authorities and the care sector under a lot of
0:26:15 > 0:26:19pressure this year getting ready for the winter, and they have stepped up
0:26:19 > 0:26:26to the plate. I would actually pay tribute to everyone who works in the
0:26:26 > 0:26:34sector with real care, and pay tribute to the work they do, which
0:26:34 > 0:26:43is delivering great care.It is a shocking statement today for the
0:26:43 > 0:26:46thousands of families in this country with the misery of social
0:26:46 > 0:26:53care. The Minister refers to the last government, the Conservative
0:26:53 > 0:26:57manifesto was clear on what it was seeking to do, introducing care
0:26:57 > 0:27:03reform costs in 2016. A few weeks into office, they changed that and
0:27:03 > 0:27:11moved it. We had exchanges in the House weeks ago on the 20th of
0:27:11 > 0:27:14October, in response to the member of New Forest West about the 2020
0:27:14 > 0:27:28date, in which she inadvertently misled Parliament. This is causing
0:27:28 > 0:27:33silent misery for thousands of people now. I am 53, will my
0:27:33 > 0:27:37children be suffering the same level of misery about my care costs in the
0:27:37 > 0:27:49next 30 years that they have? When will we see the date implemented?It
0:27:49 > 0:27:55has just been made clear that we will be revisiting this. She wants
0:27:55 > 0:28:04uncertainty about funding the care system and what obligations there
0:28:04 > 0:28:08will be, so we have to have the public debate and work together to
0:28:08 > 0:28:28bring some proposals putting the system...
0:28:29 > 0:28:33I hear noise from the other side about cross-party consensus then I
0:28:33 > 0:28:44look at the behaviour of the front bench.
0:28:46 > 0:28:51In particular in Torbay on this. One issue is the complete lack of
0:28:51 > 0:28:55understanding on how the current system works with unlimited
0:28:55 > 0:28:58liability, and also if you just pretend a blunt cap, that means
0:28:58 > 0:29:03little for someone who has worked further whole lifetime. But it would
0:29:03 > 0:29:07mean a lot to people with a £20 million pile in the south-east. We
0:29:07 > 0:29:14have to look at how we do this on a long-term basis.He encapsulates the
0:29:14 > 0:29:23problem in a nutshell. Many people do not understand care has to be met
0:29:23 > 0:29:25by the individual, and nobody understands that they have to pay
0:29:25 > 0:29:29for it until they have to. So we cannot simply implement the
0:29:29 > 0:29:33proposals that went before because people do not understand. If we're
0:29:33 > 0:29:37going to expect people who living longer to fund that gear, we have to
0:29:37 > 0:29:43take them with us, so we need to achieve that through the green
0:29:43 > 0:29:50paper. Honour among -- I would like honourable members to engage with
0:29:50 > 0:29:53the public about the care system and how it can be improved for the
0:29:53 > 0:30:00stability and the countries.After years of confusion for which the
0:30:00 > 0:30:07government bears some responsibility, tens of thousands of
0:30:07 > 0:30:16carers receive justice on the national minimum wage. This means
0:30:16 > 0:30:29individuals on individual care packages can face bankruptcy. Can we
0:30:29 > 0:30:36have a debate on what could be a catastrophe for the care sector?He
0:30:36 > 0:30:39is right to raise this, and to reassure him we're acting now. We
0:30:39 > 0:30:43are in very close contact with the providers to address the issues he
0:30:43 > 0:30:47has raised. Clearly it is important that we ensure employers uphold
0:30:47 > 0:30:52their obligations and minimum wage legislation. Clearly we need to make
0:30:52 > 0:30:58sure we're not putting anyone at risk who is dependent on long-term
0:30:58 > 0:31:02care, and I am satisfied no one is at risk, and we are working in
0:31:02 > 0:31:09detail with providers to ensure we can get them through this.In West
0:31:09 > 0:31:14Sussex we have specific social care issues currently under
0:31:14 > 0:31:21investigation, but may I welcome warmly the expert panel. Will the
0:31:21 > 0:31:27Minister please ensure the panel was -- is fully acquainted from issues
0:31:27 > 0:31:35in previous scandals? Absolutely. He mentions the expert panel. I think
0:31:35 > 0:31:40it is important that we do take the advice of people with front-end
0:31:40 > 0:31:44experience of the sector. It is not just about money, it is about
0:31:44 > 0:31:50quality and getting right packages and support and help, because we
0:31:50 > 0:31:54need to think about achieving the best possible care for individuals
0:31:54 > 0:32:01as well as how it is paid for.A recent Barnardos report showed that
0:32:01 > 0:32:07two thirds of child carers start caring in primary school. Some as
0:32:07 > 0:32:09young as four with long-term damage on their mental and emotional
0:32:09 > 0:32:15health. Will the Minister ensure child carers are primary
0:32:15 > 0:32:20responsibility for tackling from government, and take them out
0:32:20 > 0:32:29responsibility that we should not be placing upon them?I thank her for
0:32:29 > 0:32:34her comments. She literally highlights Cinderella in this
0:32:34 > 0:32:37debate, to be frank, and it is appalling that is a many children
0:32:37 > 0:32:46are acting as carers. It is to their long-term detriment, and we would be
0:32:46 > 0:32:52failing as a society if we did not do more to support them.
0:32:52 > 0:32:57We need to tackle the challenge of social care, it is a matter of
0:32:57 > 0:33:00cross-party support and agreement. The Labour Party in their manifesto
0:33:00 > 0:33:06said they wanted to implement change through consensus, an issue that
0:33:06 > 0:33:09transcended party politics, so would the minister welcome cross-party
0:33:09 > 0:33:14approach is rather than political point scoring?I am very keen to
0:33:14 > 0:33:20approach this in consensus. I do not think we can deliver change without
0:33:20 > 0:33:24consensus in truth. We have written to all-party groups in the first
0:33:24 > 0:33:28instance to engage with them but over the course of the next six
0:33:28 > 0:33:33months, I hope to engage in conversations with members in all
0:33:33 > 0:33:37parts of the House.Of course there is a short-term series of precious,
0:33:37 > 0:33:45she has cited the CQC report which is talking about decreasing numbers
0:33:45 > 0:33:48of birds in nursing homes, contracts being handed back to local
0:33:48 > 0:33:52authorities because of the acute financial pressure -- beds in
0:33:52 > 0:33:55nursing homes. But there was a longer-term issue here which all
0:33:55 > 0:34:00members have been alluding to, the need to try set aside some of the
0:34:00 > 0:34:04party politics and to find a cross-party way forward. The
0:34:04 > 0:34:12honourable member for Totnes and others wrote the Prime Minister
0:34:12 > 0:34:18saying let us have a convention on social care reform, can we do that?
0:34:18 > 0:34:24It is the only way to crack the problem.I welcome the spirit in
0:34:24 > 0:34:29which he has made his comments and it is fair to say we are seeing the
0:34:29 > 0:34:32same plea from local authorities who of course are the front-end of
0:34:32 > 0:34:37dealing with the problem. He is absolutely right, we need to
0:34:37 > 0:34:41separate the short-term pressures from the long term and in terms of
0:34:41 > 0:34:45long-term, we ought to be able to have a more sensible conversation.
0:34:45 > 0:34:48Let us save the politics for the short-term and consensus for the
0:34:48 > 0:34:56long-term.Thank you. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to
0:34:56 > 0:35:01come in as I missed the beginning of the statement. My apologies. I
0:35:01 > 0:35:04concur totally with what a number of colleagues have said about the
0:35:04 > 0:35:09issues here and now. There are some absolutely significant issues for a
0:35:09 > 0:35:13lot of councils and care homes. They really cannot wait for a few years.
0:35:13 > 0:35:19The here and now is the priority. Two things, one negative, I would
0:35:19 > 0:35:23like the Minister to take back to the Chancellor, calling on the
0:35:23 > 0:35:26Government to make a public commitment to fund the back pay bill
0:35:26 > 0:35:34for sleeping carers. -- sleep in carers. If it is not sorted soon, a
0:35:34 > 0:35:39number of very reputable organisations are likely to go bust.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42I would like to ask whether the minister read this BMJ report
0:35:42 > 0:35:47recently asked the meat indicating how exercise can be a significant
0:35:47 > 0:35:55miracle cure for older people -- asked the Minister?I would be happy
0:35:55 > 0:35:59to meet the honourable gentleman, I am always looking for solutions. If
0:35:59 > 0:36:03we can look after our own well-being more effectively in terms of
0:36:03 > 0:36:07physical and mental well-being, the need for care will be diminished.
0:36:07 > 0:36:10Another reason why we need to have this public debate. Like the
0:36:10 > 0:36:17honourable gentleman, he raises the issues of sleep ins. It is a big
0:36:17 > 0:36:19issue, we are working closely with the sector to make sure we can
0:36:19 > 0:36:28address this.Thank you. I am currently caring for my ath man with
0:36:28 > 0:36:37dementia, living hundreds of miles away on her own. -- for my mum who
0:36:37 > 0:36:43is 80 years old. She gets excellent care. My personal experience of
0:36:43 > 0:36:46doorknocking in the election demonstrated strongly to me the
0:36:46 > 0:36:51public does not understand this and dementia patients particularly not
0:36:51 > 0:36:55able to understand how care can be funded. Speaking to the Alzheimer's
0:36:55 > 0:36:59Society, they were the people who welcomed the focus in the manifesto
0:36:59 > 0:37:05on this difficult issue. Can I ask her to comment on the fact countries
0:37:05 > 0:37:09across the world are facing similar challenges? This is not about who is
0:37:09 > 0:37:14in power in this government, it is a feature of ageing societies. We must
0:37:14 > 0:37:20look at it in the round.She is right. I mentioned local authorities
0:37:20 > 0:37:24were very keen to us to find a solution, but it is the Alzheimer's
0:37:24 > 0:37:28lobby which is more keen than anybody. At present, one in ten
0:37:28 > 0:37:35people who face long-term care bills. If we are looking at this
0:37:35 > 0:37:39from an individual's risk, making financial provision is not... We do
0:37:39 > 0:37:48need a solution. For the one in ten facing long-term care costs, it is
0:37:48 > 0:37:51generally as a consequence of dementia and it is significant and
0:37:51 > 0:37:54that is what we are trying to tackle by introducing a cap on overall
0:37:54 > 0:37:59costs. It is white is very important we all get involved. It is also why
0:37:59 > 0:38:04I think the Alzheimer's lobby is very keen we establish cross-party
0:38:04 > 0:38:08consensus. She raises an interesting point. The fact of the matter is
0:38:08 > 0:38:12over the last 50 years, our lifestyles have changed
0:38:12 > 0:38:17significantly. My own family, everybody lives within half a mile
0:38:17 > 0:38:21of each other, it is easy for the family to pick up care
0:38:21 > 0:38:28responsibilities. I live 300 miles away from them. That is increasingly
0:38:28 > 0:38:33the pattern. Like her, knocking on doors in the election, you see
0:38:33 > 0:38:37people living many miles from their families, that is something we have
0:38:37 > 0:38:42failed to address over decades and we need to address it now.Thank
0:38:42 > 0:38:46you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can the Minister update us on the financial
0:38:46 > 0:38:51stability of the four seasons group who care for over 17,000 vulnerable
0:38:51 > 0:38:57residents across the UK?I am aware there has been considerable press
0:38:57 > 0:39:06reporting of what is happening with Four Seasons. Since Southern Cross
0:39:06 > 0:39:10Cqc have been involved and they have been stress testing exactly what is
0:39:10 > 0:39:16happening, they were satisfied there is no risk to any of the people that
0:39:16 > 0:39:20Four Seasons. Beyond that, I cannot say much, commercial issues for
0:39:20 > 0:39:21them. He