0:00:09 > 0:00:17Some points of order. It wouldn't be a full day without a point of order
0:00:17 > 0:00:24from Angus Brendan McNeill.I congratulate you on your
0:00:24 > 0:00:30pronunciation. By the opposition and the panellists talked of the NHS
0:00:30 > 0:00:35seemingly unaware there are four NHS services in the UK. I am looking for
0:00:35 > 0:00:40your guidance what can be done to assist knowledge and accuracy in
0:00:40 > 0:00:43senior parliamentarians in the Chamber. Or is this just the English
0:00:43 > 0:00:50Parliament?If I didn't know the honourable gentleman as well as I
0:00:50 > 0:00:57do, I would think that he was being mischievous. But I can't imagine
0:00:57 > 0:01:03that he would behave in that way. But I am on the one hand flattered
0:01:03 > 0:01:09of the exhortation by the honourable gentleman in his point of order. On
0:01:09 > 0:01:15the other hand, at least a tad intimidated for the idea that the
0:01:15 > 0:01:22chair can be expected to insist amongst any member, or any group of
0:01:22 > 0:01:32members, upon knowledge and accuracy. Is I think and unrealistic
0:01:32 > 0:01:37ambition on the part of the honourable gentleman. That is not a
0:01:37 > 0:01:40matter for the chair, members take responsibility for their statements
0:01:40 > 0:01:43but insofar as the honourable gentleman seeking to draw attention
0:01:43 > 0:01:47to what she regards as the sensuality of the Scottish health
0:01:47 > 0:01:51service, adding he has accomplished his objective, or even the plurality
0:01:51 > 0:01:58of services which she witters from his position, I think he has a
0:01:58 > 0:02:04conflict is objective.I seek advice on how best to raise the issue of
0:02:04 > 0:02:09Cancer treatment in Oxford with the Minister responsible. This seriously
0:02:09 > 0:02:21terminally ill patients face delays and cuts to services at the asked
0:02:21 > 0:02:29them. Cancer doesn't wait.First of all, the matter was at least raised
0:02:29 > 0:02:35at Prime Minister's Questions today with considerable force, albeit not
0:02:35 > 0:02:39by the honourable lady on this occasion. Secondly, I know the
0:02:39 > 0:02:45honourable lady won't take offence, I was looking mean a thing --
0:02:45 > 0:02:51meaningfully at and keen to call her on a question, admittedly not of the
0:02:51 > 0:02:57cancer services minister, but of the Prime Minister. But the honourable
0:02:57 > 0:03:01lady in a uncharacteristic display of reticence did not respond to my
0:03:01 > 0:03:05exhortation is our to to her feet at that time. Thirdly, what I would say
0:03:05 > 0:03:10to the honourable lady is notwithstanding health questions a
0:03:10 > 0:03:13considerable distance away, business questions are tomorrow and if the
0:03:13 > 0:03:17honourable lady wishes to meet from her seat with alacrity to put a
0:03:17 > 0:03:22question on this matter to the leader of the House, she can.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Finally, if she applies for an adjournment debate, she might be
0:03:25 > 0:03:38successful.I hope you might be able to advise me on how I can ascertain
0:03:38 > 0:03:41Government policy and action on an urgent matter which affects my
0:03:41 > 0:03:46constituents in Norwich. Hundreds of potential job losses could take
0:03:46 > 0:03:53place with the closure of the Commons mustard factory and Britvic
0:03:53 > 0:03:59factories in my constituency. I have asked ministers to come to meet
0:03:59 > 0:04:06workers at the highly profitable factory. I understand he is still in
0:04:06 > 0:04:12his place at the Department but a number of new ministers and junior
0:04:12 > 0:04:21ministers whose responsibilities we do not know. -- Colman's muster. --
0:04:21 > 0:04:22mastered.
0:04:27 > 0:04:40I thank him for his advance notice. I say that's with great seriousness,
0:04:40 > 0:04:45the importance to the honourable gentleman and his constituents. On
0:04:45 > 0:04:49the specific matter, which of the new material team has responsibility
0:04:49 > 0:04:54for that matter, it is constantly -- customary to publish from time to
0:04:54 > 0:05:00time a list ministerial responsibilities and it would be
0:05:00 > 0:05:07helpful to both sides of the House perhaps, is the responsibilities
0:05:07 > 0:05:11within departments could be publicly clarified as soon as possible.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14Meanwhile, his concern is on the record and I am sure it will be
0:05:14 > 0:05:20noted on the Treasury bench. Secondly, I say on the back of my
0:05:20 > 0:05:25own experience as a member before I became Speaker, my advice to him in
0:05:25 > 0:05:43seeking a visit is, processed, man. Processed. Make -- persist. Keep
0:05:43 > 0:05:50going, keep asking, keep requesting, put the matter in the mind of
0:05:50 > 0:05:55ministers. By making a nuisance of myself as a backbencher, more often
0:05:55 > 0:05:58than not I got at least a significant share of what I was
0:05:58 > 0:06:07looking for for my constituents. A point of order.This point of order
0:06:07 > 0:06:12is in pursuance to the point of order and made last night which you
0:06:12 > 0:06:17gave good, clear suggestions on. I now understand the Secretary of
0:06:17 > 0:06:21State has issued a statement but not an official statement and wondering
0:06:21 > 0:06:25whether or not given the words spoken on the 6th of December you
0:06:25 > 0:06:28have heard from the Secretary of State as to whether or not he
0:06:28 > 0:06:35intends to come back to rectify the record?The short answer is I have
0:06:35 > 0:06:40received no indication of any intention on the part of the
0:06:40 > 0:06:47Minister to make a statement on this matter. Reference to the matter was
0:06:47 > 0:06:50I think made by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister
0:06:50 > 0:06:55for the Cabinet Office during his Question Time session. I think there
0:06:55 > 0:06:58is an indication to the honourable gentleman as to how the Government
0:06:58 > 0:07:02intends to proceed on this matter. That may not satisfy him but that is
0:07:02 > 0:07:09what we have got at present. Moreover, it will not be beyond the
0:07:09 > 0:07:14sagacity of the honourable gentleman and some of his colleagues similarly
0:07:14 > 0:07:20exercised about this matter to highlight their concerns during the
0:07:20 > 0:07:25report stage of the EU Withdrawal Bill. I look forward with dated
0:07:25 > 0:07:30breath, eager anticipation and beads of sweat on my brow to hearing the
0:07:30 > 0:07:33honourable gentleman expresses concern for the simple reason that I
0:07:33 > 0:07:38intend to chair the bulk of those sessions on each of the two days,
0:07:38 > 0:07:46the 16th and 17th of January. Much excitement awaits me. There is a
0:07:46 > 0:07:53further point of order.In the answer to my question on the half of
0:07:53 > 0:07:58my homeless constituents who is also a foster carer, the banister
0:07:58 > 0:08:03appeared to suggest there was some doubt she would be de-registered as
0:08:03 > 0:08:09a foster carer because of her poor homeless accommodation. Can confirm
0:08:09 > 0:08:12she has been de-registered for that reason and how would I put that on
0:08:12 > 0:08:19the record?The honourable lady has achieved our objective, it will
0:08:19 > 0:08:23appear in the official report and the honourable lady wishes to send a
0:08:23 > 0:08:28personalised and sang copied to the premise, it is open to her to do so.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33If there are no further points of order, we come to the ten minute
0:08:33 > 0:08:44rule motion, John...I beg to move that leave the given for me to bring
0:08:44 > 0:08:49in the planning agent of change Bill to require specified planning
0:08:49 > 0:08:52control is in relation to developments likely to be affected
0:08:52 > 0:08:59by existing sources and connected purposes. This Bill is the science
0:08:59 > 0:09:08to protect existing music venues from college from crippling cost
0:09:08 > 0:09:12arising from residential property developments in their area are
0:09:12 > 0:09:17particularly nice. This has been campaigned on for some time. Over
0:09:17 > 0:09:23one third of music venues are closed over the last decade estimated.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26Members of Parliament have examples of much loved venues in their area
0:09:26 > 0:09:33closed are under threat. That is why there has been cross-party
0:09:33 > 0:09:40widespread support. Many turned out at this morning 's photocall. This
0:09:40 > 0:09:47was also raised on the 3rd of November on the adjournment debate
0:09:47 > 0:09:53by the Member for St Helens North. Sir Paul McCartney and some of the
0:09:53 > 0:09:57music greats have said without the grassroots public cousins, clubs and
0:09:57 > 0:10:04music venues my career would be very different. If we do not support
0:10:04 > 0:10:17music at this level,... Grassroots public Houses. Redundant, commercial
0:10:17 > 0:10:20or industrial premises are converted to residential or indeed are knocked
0:10:20 > 0:10:27down and rebuilt or as empty sites are developed. Of course, much of
0:10:27 > 0:10:33this is very welcome. It is part of the regeneration of our inner
0:10:33 > 0:10:35cities, restoring their historic vibrancy and also creating
0:10:35 > 0:10:42much-needed homes. However, it can sometimes lead to the loss of what
0:10:42 > 0:10:46makes parts of those areas attractive in the first place.
0:10:46 > 0:10:51Especially to younger residents. Incidentally, that doesn't just
0:10:51 > 0:10:56apply to music venues, but to the wider fabric of inner-city life and
0:10:56 > 0:11:00there are important questions as to how we preserve the vibrancy and
0:11:00 > 0:11:04diversity of city life more generally across our main
0:11:04 > 0:11:10conurbations. However, my short Bill is more modest and focused as a
0:11:10 > 0:11:13mission, adopting the principle of agent of change into planning law.
0:11:13 > 0:11:19What that basically means is that when buildings are converted to
0:11:19 > 0:11:24residential use or a new development put up the onus is on the developer
0:11:24 > 0:11:29is not the venue to ensure the new talent are protected from factors,
0:11:29 > 0:11:32particularly nice, which could be held to affect their general and
0:11:32 > 0:11:35energy and enjoyment.
0:11:53 > 0:11:59Bristol is a city where I am informed has more office to
0:11:59 > 0:12:01residential convergence than anywhere else outside London. Two
0:12:01 > 0:12:07other sponsors the members for Cardiff West and Central have been
0:12:07 > 0:12:09supporting the save woman be street campaign along with the members
0:12:09 > 0:12:14Cardiff North and South and Cardiff South and Penarth. That has led
0:12:14 > 0:12:19directly to the adoption of the agent of change principle across
0:12:19 > 0:12:22Wales, welcome adoption by the Welsh Labour government. Another sponsor
0:12:22 > 0:12:31met the member for Somerton and Frome is concerned to protect a
0:12:31 > 0:12:36value -- a much valued venue in Frome. The Mayor of London with
0:12:36 > 0:12:41London grassroots music venue rescue plan will be introducing an agent of
0:12:41 > 0:12:45change rule into the next London plan. As I mentioned the Welsh
0:12:45 > 0:12:51Government announced a summer move and it's already under consideration
0:12:51 > 0:12:57by the Scottish Parliament. My bill will provide the legislative
0:12:57 > 0:13:00reinforcement. What my bill is aiming to do is to give greater
0:13:00 > 0:13:05clarity and powerful local councils and the planning inspector to
0:13:05 > 0:13:09incorporate this principle into planning decisions. So why was I so
0:13:09 > 0:13:15receptive to this idea and why is there such strong public support?
0:13:15 > 0:13:19Because it matters. It matters for those who enjoy the entertainment
0:13:19 > 0:13:23than to whom it opens up new horizons. And obviously for the
0:13:23 > 0:13:27staff and owners of the venues. But it matters a lot more than that and
0:13:27 > 0:13:32not just for the nearby late-night kebab shops. For a start it's impact
0:13:32 > 0:13:37on musicians. This is why the bill is being supported by the musicians
0:13:37 > 0:13:45union. Less venues means less work and opportunity to develop talent.
0:13:45 > 0:13:49But also to move from amateur to part-time to full-time professional
0:13:49 > 0:13:57to national or even international stardom. Just talking to dated Billy
0:13:57 > 0:14:00Graham mentioned to me that three times he tried to move from other
0:14:00 > 0:14:05ordinary job to being a full-time musician and it was the existence of
0:14:05 > 0:14:09the clubs and pubs and venues that enabled him to actually finally make
0:14:09 > 0:14:16it onto the national stage. We are in danger of taking away the ladder
0:14:16 > 0:14:20that has served individual musicians and the music industry so well for
0:14:20 > 0:14:27so long. And what an industry. Not only domestic sales rising again, we
0:14:27 > 0:14:31are second to the US in international sales. It's a huge
0:14:31 > 0:14:36boost to Britain's standing around the world and our soft power not to
0:14:36 > 0:14:40mission millions in other seal sales last year. Let alone it being a
0:14:40 > 0:14:45significant part of our tourism. There is a real concern that the
0:14:45 > 0:14:50industry is now depending on a great past with the loss of grey hair
0:14:50 > 0:14:55around. I am in favour of good representation of good here but also
0:14:55 > 0:15:04I support refreshing the industry with new talent. There is a danger
0:15:04 > 0:15:08of mining rather than farming our musical heritage and it's also
0:15:08 > 0:15:17narrowing a route of opportunity for your working-class youngsters. As a
0:15:17 > 0:15:21West Woodlands MP I am proud to represent part of the area which
0:15:21 > 0:15:30gave birth to heavy metal however, I recognise how damaging the loss of
0:15:30 > 0:15:36venues can be to smaller towns. Retaining youngsters and slowing the
0:15:36 > 0:15:41just to the city. All those factors are important. Another factor makes
0:15:41 > 0:15:46it imperative. Either from Parliament or the government given
0:15:46 > 0:15:53the wide level of cross-party support from ex-ministers as well as
0:15:53 > 0:15:55government members I hope the government will adopt this measure
0:15:55 > 0:16:00and helped to push it through. That factor is Brexit. As Brexit is
0:16:00 > 0:16:04happening and we face an uncertain to check its vitally important that
0:16:04 > 0:16:08Britain is made more efficient and effective across-the-board and we
0:16:08 > 0:16:14maximise every possible advantage that Britain has. One of these is
0:16:14 > 0:16:18clearly our cultural and entertainment offer but only London
0:16:18 > 0:16:23but in our other great centres around the country. Many of which
0:16:23 > 0:16:27are like Birmingham and Manchester attracting increasing foreign
0:16:27 > 0:16:39investment although Birmingham is the best venue for Channel 4. The
0:16:39 > 0:16:46quality of life is also significant. It's partly about personal safety,
0:16:46 > 0:16:50environmental quality, but it's also about the answer to the basic
0:16:50 > 0:16:54questions would I want to live there? That is a question not only
0:16:54 > 0:16:58the companies but also for the staff they are seeking to attract.
0:16:58 > 0:17:03Especially the highly mobile technically skilled and talented
0:17:03 > 0:17:06international and multinational workforce not least in our huge
0:17:06 > 0:17:10creative sector. But culture and living environment is important to
0:17:10 > 0:17:16them. That means art galleries, theatres, football clubs, other
0:17:16 > 0:17:21sporting environments but it also mean music venues and the street
0:17:21 > 0:17:26scene. It poses a question to those who are being enticed to move abroad
0:17:26 > 0:17:34after Brexit, would you and your family and your employees prefer to
0:17:34 > 0:17:39live in London, Birmingham Manchester or in Frankfurt? This
0:17:39 > 0:17:46measure I hope will provide some small but useful assistance provided
0:17:46 > 0:17:53industry and I commend this bill to the House.The question is that the
0:17:53 > 0:18:00Right Honourable member had leave to bring in the Bill. As many of that
0:18:00 > 0:18:06opinion say I. To the contrary now. The eyes have it. Who will prepare
0:18:06 > 0:18:13and bring in the Bill?Kevin Brennan, said Greg Knight, Pete
0:18:13 > 0:18:20Wishart, Joe Stephens, Esther Edward Vaizey, Kerry McCarthy, David
0:18:20 > 0:18:26Warburton, Conor McGinn. Mr Nigel Evans, and myself.
0:18:37 > 0:18:47Mr John speller.
0:19:01 > 0:19:07Planning agent of change Bill. Second reading. Friday the 19th of
0:19:07 > 0:19:16January. A very good day, my birthday.We now come to the first
0:19:16 > 0:19:23opposition day motion on the NHS winter crisis. To move the motion I
0:19:23 > 0:19:30called the Shadow Secretary of State for Health, Jonathan Ashworth.I beg
0:19:30 > 0:19:33to move the motion in the name of my right honourable friend the Leader
0:19:33 > 0:19:36of the Opposition and myself. I begin by paying tribute to the
0:19:36 > 0:19:42extraordinary efforts of our NHS and social care staff for all of their
0:19:42 > 0:19:46work this Christmas and New Year. They continue to do all of us in
0:19:46 > 0:19:53this House proud. It's almost a year since the House debated the National
0:19:53 > 0:20:00Health Service following the Christmas and New Year break. A year
0:20:00 > 0:20:05ago we debated winter pressures with a backdrop that had been
0:20:05 > 0:20:09characterised by the Red Cross as a humanitarian crisis. Here we are a
0:20:09 > 0:20:17year later again. Debating a winter crisis worse than last year. A
0:20:17 > 0:20:26winter crisis described as even worse than last year. He goes on, in
0:20:26 > 0:20:29some cases I've heard of 50 patients in an emergency Department waiting
0:20:29 > 0:20:37for a bed. We have to try and manage them as best we can. In cold dusty
0:20:37 > 0:20:46corridors while dealing with new emergency patients. His words. His
0:20:46 > 0:20:50words backed up by the realities on the ground revealed in the weekly
0:20:50 > 0:20:54reports of what is happening. Since the start of this winter over 75,000
0:20:54 > 0:20:59patients waited for over 30 minutes in the back of a numberless. Over --
0:20:59 > 0:21:02almost 17,000 patients waited over 60 minutes and this is despite NHS
0:21:02 > 0:21:08improvements directed last year that emergency departments should accept
0:21:08 > 0:21:13handover of patients within 15 minutes of a numberless arriving. I
0:21:13 > 0:21:24will give way.Does he recognise the pressure across the system. In Arrow
0:21:24 > 0:21:34Park on the Wirral they put 48 extra beds available for the winter crisis
0:21:34 > 0:21:42and in the event they had to make 40 extra beds available by cancelling
0:21:42 > 0:21:49all elective surgeries. Does he believe this is the way to plan for
0:21:49 > 0:21:55the winter and does he believe that the Department of Health made robust
0:21:55 > 0:22:01and appropriate plans?She speaks eloquently about the pressures on
0:22:01 > 0:22:06her local hospital but she will also be aware of how foolhardy it would
0:22:06 > 0:22:10have been to close the walk-in centre on the Wirral which was
0:22:10 > 0:22:14proposed closure because there wasn't enough staff at Daryl Clark
0:22:14 > 0:22:23hospital. Because of her campaign that eastern walk-in centre has been
0:22:23 > 0:22:31saved because of Labour MPs working in the constituency.King's College
0:22:31 > 0:22:37Hospital in my constituency, one of the largest in the country, has been
0:22:37 > 0:22:40taken into financial special measures. With my right honourable
0:22:40 > 0:22:43friend agree with me that the failure of Kings is a canary in the
0:22:43 > 0:22:48for the NHS and must be a wake up call for the government on the level
0:22:48 > 0:22:54of resources the NHS staff need and Willie join me and calling on behalf
0:22:54 > 0:22:58of Secretary to ensure Kings emerges from financial special measures with
0:22:58 > 0:23:03the additional funding it needs to deliver safe and effective care for
0:23:03 > 0:23:10patients?She has been a passionate defender of Kings, speaking out in
0:23:10 > 0:23:14this House on numerous occasions. Before Christmas we saw the
0:23:14 > 0:23:18resignation of the chair and he spoke out about the real pressures
0:23:18 > 0:23:30facing our NHS. I will give way.It was under a Labour government that
0:23:30 > 0:23:35the walk-in centre closed but I don't seek to blame the Labour
0:23:35 > 0:23:37government because it was a local decision that was made by local
0:23:37 > 0:23:44practitioners. Would he at least not agree in the spirit of trying to
0:23:44 > 0:23:48build some sort of sensible debate about our NHS instead of always wet
0:23:48 > 0:23:57amazing it that this government has put in an extra £437 million
0:23:57 > 0:24:02specifically for the winter period. Would he not at least give the
0:24:02 > 0:24:06government credit for that planning we have never seen before?The
0:24:06 > 0:24:13honourable lady was former Health Minister and she will know that in
0:24:13 > 0:24:18our local hospitals 771 patients have waited longer than four hours
0:24:18 > 0:24:23on trolleys not able to get a bed. She talks about winter many but we
0:24:23 > 0:24:26were calling for winter emergency money back at the general election
0:24:26 > 0:24:31and repeated those causing September. That didn't many did not
0:24:31 > 0:24:34come through until the November budget and hospital trusts were not
0:24:34 > 0:24:38told about the allocations before Christmas. That is no way to prefer
0:24:38 > 0:24:42if the winter. When she was Health Minister she would have been saying
0:24:42 > 0:24:49that that officials in her department.But the point is, for
0:24:49 > 0:24:54the first time the government has done everything it possibly could
0:24:54 > 0:24:59because no government can predict what the weather may be like or
0:24:59 > 0:25:04indeed the uptake of flu vaccinations and it is wrong to
0:25:04 > 0:25:09suggest that this is the fault of the government in England when this
0:25:09 > 0:25:12has been a problem across the whole of the UK including Scotland and
0:25:12 > 0:25:20Labour run Wales.We have had eight years of sustained underfunding in
0:25:20 > 0:25:23our NHS because of decisions by this government that she was a member of
0:25:23 > 0:25:31until very recently.I refer to the comments made to the health select
0:25:31 > 0:25:36committee by Jim Mackie back at the start of October three months ago.
0:25:36 > 0:25:41He told the select committee it's true we are running tighter than any
0:25:41 > 0:25:44of us would want and we have not had the impact from the social care
0:25:44 > 0:25:48investment this year we would have hoped for so it will be difficult
0:25:48 > 0:25:51and very tight over winter. This government knew what was coming and
0:25:51 > 0:26:02yet they have let the whole country down.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07Pointing out the response of Tory members saying this was not
0:26:07 > 0:26:10predictable. This was not preventable. This winter crisis was
0:26:10 > 0:26:20predictable.
0:26:20 > 0:26:25And patients were left in ambulances for more than 30 minutes outside
0:26:25 > 0:26:30Kingsmill hospital between the week of the 25th and 31st of December,
0:26:30 > 0:26:36one and 40% of those arriving by ambulance that week. That's my
0:26:36 > 0:26:38honourable friend agreed those patients and families deserve any
0:26:38 > 0:26:43apology and a promise that will never happen again. I have absolute
0:26:43 > 0:26:47praise for the staff at Kingsmill. That is remote first daughter was
0:26:47 > 0:26:55born, in fact but the way patients have had to wait for ambulances is
0:26:55 > 0:27:01entirely unacceptable. Let me make progress. I will try to take as many
0:27:01 > 0:27:04interventions as possible, a half day debate and I know a lot of
0:27:04 > 0:27:12people want to get in and speak. We have the stories of ambulances, 150
0:27:12 > 0:27:21times they have been diverted away from gridlocked A & E departments.
0:27:21 > 0:27:26Occupancy levels running at unsafe levels. Over one third of England's
0:27:26 > 0:27:32children's care units 100% fall on Christmas Eve with not a single
0:27:32 > 0:27:35spare bed. Reports of whole children's wards being used for
0:27:35 > 0:27:40adults. We do not know the full scale of the crisis because this
0:27:40 > 0:27:46year NHS England is not reporting which hospital trusts have reported
0:27:46 > 0:27:56the so-called bubble alerts. I hope he will explain why the Opal data is
0:27:56 > 0:28:02not published as it has been done in recent years. Every one of these
0:28:02 > 0:28:07statistics is a real human story. Stories of elderly fragile patients
0:28:07 > 0:28:14treated in the backs of ambulances in freezing January. Patients
0:28:14 > 0:28:23language and -- languishing in hospitals on trolleys. Such is the
0:28:23 > 0:28:2780-year-old epileptic man waiting to be treated. His daughter, Jacki
0:28:27 > 0:28:30Weaver, said it was absolutely horrendous. You couldn't get past
0:28:30 > 0:28:43all the trolleys.67 people sitting on trolleys. We ran out of corridor
0:28:43 > 0:28:47space. 200 people medically fit for discharge with nowhere to go. The
0:28:47 > 0:28:53pressure on my constituents and those of my honourable friend in
0:28:53 > 0:28:55North Staffordshire was appalling but also the pressure on the staff
0:28:55 > 0:29:01who had to cope with looking after these patients, my consecutive --
0:29:01 > 0:29:05constituents deserve better, we need money for social care and needed at
0:29:05 > 0:29:16last year. -- Opel data.That is a moving contribution. The people
0:29:16 > 0:29:20whose relatives are waiting so long in corridors, when they hear the
0:29:20 > 0:29:23Prime Minister Singh, nothing is perfect, I think the truth is we do
0:29:23 > 0:29:28not want perfection, just a bit of dignity and humanity. -- when they
0:29:28 > 0:29:37hear the Prime Minister saying.I went out on a shift with a ambulance
0:29:37 > 0:29:41Crewe, they said they were awaiting two hours or more other side of A &
0:29:41 > 0:29:50E at Lincoln. One paramedic was going in, in resuscitation, he was
0:29:50 > 0:29:57clerking patients. What does the honourable gentleman think of that?
0:29:57 > 0:30:03What we will do?A powerful and raw contribution to our proceedings
0:30:03 > 0:30:07because she was working over the Christmas holiday at the front line
0:30:07 > 0:30:13in Lincoln and I pay tribute to her and her colleagues in Lincoln. I
0:30:13 > 0:30:24hope the finest reflects upon the contribution and response to it.The
0:30:24 > 0:30:28stories are indeed heartbreaking. No one wants to see that for their
0:30:28 > 0:30:33constituents are a relic -- relatives. Will the Minister
0:30:33 > 0:30:38recognising welcome the investments made into the elderly and frail
0:30:38 > 0:30:43unit, I have seen that in my hospital and it has made a massive
0:30:43 > 0:30:47difference. Too early to tell it has solved the problems and we want to
0:30:47 > 0:30:51do more of course but that is making a real difference on the ground. As
0:30:51 > 0:30:54well as the additional Government funding of nearly £4 million that
0:30:54 > 0:31:00was put in in time. That is also a hospital that was in special
0:31:00 > 0:31:04measures, the readership are turning it around. Does he welcome the
0:31:04 > 0:31:10practice helping our constituents? Welcome examples of good practice
0:31:10 > 0:31:14but I also share her frustration that she has put on her own website
0:31:14 > 0:31:17about the money taking so long to reach the fund line. The money has
0:31:17 > 0:31:23been approved, the frustration has been the time the trust taking to
0:31:23 > 0:31:26gain access to the money. The money should have been announced sooner
0:31:26 > 0:31:34for our NHS. I will try to make progress. What about the story of
0:31:34 > 0:31:41the 87-year-old who suffers from dementia? She was at Worcestershire
0:31:41 > 0:31:47Royal. Forced to wait ten hours in hospital to see a Dr, had to be tied
0:31:47 > 0:31:53into a wheelchair with a scarf after her bed was taken away. At Southmead
0:31:53 > 0:32:03Hospital in Bristol, we learnt they have capacity of 104%. A leaked memo
0:32:03 > 0:32:06yesterday revealed acute medical units physicians have been on their
0:32:06 > 0:32:11knees with workload pressures. At the biggest risk remains patients in
0:32:11 > 0:32:15corridors in the emergency department with no allocated Dr, no
0:32:15 > 0:32:26allocated bed, no treatment.In my local hospital in Barnsley, despite
0:32:26 > 0:32:30the incredible effort of the staff there, general and acute bed
0:32:30 > 0:32:35occupancy reach 100% on the 31st of December. Does he agree that these
0:32:35 > 0:32:40safety targets are simply not being met and that is not good enough?Bed
0:32:40 > 0:32:44occupancy levels at this level are unsafe. And the Secretary of State
0:32:44 > 0:32:49is committed to patient safety. He has made it a signature issue apace
0:32:49 > 0:32:57and yet is presiding over a health service were bed can see --
0:32:57 > 0:33:01occupancy is over 85%. We have heard about the pressures in South
0:33:01 > 0:33:05Yorkshire. What about West Yorkshire? In a hospital ward in
0:33:05 > 0:33:09Pinderfields where people were left lying on the floor. A witness said
0:33:09 > 0:33:14the man who was lying on the floor at the bottom of my husband's that
0:33:14 > 0:33:17was being sick, asking for a trolley to lie on but there was not want to
0:33:17 > 0:33:23give him. Dismissed in the House on Monday by the then Minister is
0:33:23 > 0:33:30saying there was enough chairs for him to sit on.I'm sure he will join
0:33:30 > 0:33:34me in thanking the staff for their gargantuan effort this winter had
0:33:34 > 0:33:37over the festive period. Just this week I spoke to a nurse at that very
0:33:37 > 0:33:41same hospital who advised me they had had to clear out the cleaning
0:33:41 > 0:33:45cover to put a bed in there for a patient to actually be in their
0:33:45 > 0:33:50receiving an infusion. Does he share my horror on what on earth are NHS
0:33:50 > 0:33:57is becoming under this Government? Beds in a broom cupboard. The Tory
0:33:57 > 0:34:03NHS. Isn't it a disgrace? We have had a long wait studs let me make
0:34:03 > 0:34:14progress.I am grateful. In relation to the incident at Pinderfields
0:34:14 > 0:34:17Hospital, completely unacceptable people should be lying in corridors.
0:34:17 > 0:34:22The hospital in fungi before I made the statement on Monday that
0:34:22 > 0:34:24patients concerned photograph had been asked whether they wanted to
0:34:24 > 0:34:33sit down and had decided not to.I am grateful that he has clarified.
0:34:33 > 0:34:37Perhaps he should have done that on Monday and still might be in place
0:34:37 > 0:34:43as the Health Minister had he said that on Monday. We have had huge
0:34:43 > 0:34:48pressures on North East Ambulance Services. Because of pressures they
0:34:48 > 0:34:51are asking some patients if they have alternative transport such as
0:34:51 > 0:34:55family members. East of England Ambulance Service and set some
0:34:55 > 0:34:58patients were being sent faxes with paramedics stuck in ambulances
0:34:58 > 0:35:06chewing up for more than 500 hours at hospitals. University Hospital
0:35:06 > 0:35:15North the defence -- Midlands said they have run out of corridor space
0:35:15 > 0:35:19and said they have failed to apologise for in his words third
0:35:19 > 0:35:26World conditions. What is the response of the Prime Minister and
0:35:26 > 0:35:30Secretary of State? A perfunctory apology and the blanket
0:35:30 > 0:35:40unprecedented cancellation of elective operations.He mentions the
0:35:40 > 0:35:45east of England Ambulance Service. He will be aware of the elderly Lady
0:35:45 > 0:35:49who lost their life waiting four hours waiting for an ambulance to
0:35:49 > 0:35:56arrive. Often as a result of ambulances stacked up out of
0:35:56 > 0:36:03hospitals. Does he agree these intolerable incidents have to be
0:36:03 > 0:36:07ended and to have a mature national conversation about how we increased
0:36:07 > 0:36:10the funding for our NHS and care system to ensure people get care
0:36:10 > 0:36:16when they need it?I am entirely happy to have a conversation about
0:36:16 > 0:36:20how we increase the funding in the National Health Service. But they
0:36:20 > 0:36:25have huge scepticism that this Government, having overseen eight
0:36:25 > 0:36:30years of desperately tight funding allocations for the NHS, cuts to
0:36:30 > 0:36:32community health service are prepared to engage constructively in
0:36:32 > 0:36:37that conversation. On the specific case he mention, I think the
0:36:37 > 0:36:40honourable member for Clacton though I cannot see in his place, apologies
0:36:40 > 0:36:46if he is, has called for an enquiry into that particular incident. He
0:36:46 > 0:36:52has actually warned that if it was a result of underfunding we need to
0:36:52 > 0:36:56put funding into Ambulance Services and I would share his concerns. Let
0:36:56 > 0:37:02me make progress because I have been generous. I am conscious it is a
0:37:02 > 0:37:07half day debate. The consequences of this crisis are not only to those in
0:37:07 > 0:37:12urgent need, they are also to those who are using the NHS, everyone,
0:37:12 > 0:37:16because this panic cancelling of elective operations means patients
0:37:16 > 0:37:19will suffer. Not only will patients suffer longer for operations whilst
0:37:19 > 0:37:23in pain and distress, they will wait for appointments with the
0:37:23 > 0:37:27uncertainty of not knowing not to know what is wrong with them, the
0:37:27 > 0:37:33knock-on effects on NHS services on the wider society are huge. Already,
0:37:33 > 0:37:35patients are facing a waiting times crisis with 4 million on the waiting
0:37:35 > 0:37:43list. But a last month will mean thousands of patients across the
0:37:43 > 0:37:50country are stuck with their lives on hold. To call this routine care
0:37:50 > 0:37:53misses the fact that these are big issues for those individual patients
0:37:53 > 0:37:58affected. A young man awaiting heart valve surgery will have to have
0:37:58 > 0:38:03arranged for a time off work and his family to be a ranting, to care for
0:38:03 > 0:38:07him, now has to cancel all and does not know when his operation will
0:38:07 > 0:38:12happen. It also runs the risk of a deterioration in his heart function
0:38:12 > 0:38:16which could lead to further hospitalisation in an emergency,
0:38:16 > 0:38:27adding to the pressures on our emergency service. Would he at least
0:38:27 > 0:38:32recognised that the NHS is doing more operations than ever before? In
0:38:32 > 0:38:40my area of mid-Essex, and incredible 72,000 operations were carried out
0:38:40 > 0:38:47last year, over 9000 more operations than back in 2010. And will he join
0:38:47 > 0:38:54me in thanking the incredible NHS staff for the many, many more
0:38:54 > 0:39:04outcomes that they are delivering? Thank you. Yes, I will and they do
0:39:04 > 0:39:09thank the NHS staff. Of course, if she wants to thank the NHS staff,
0:39:09 > 0:39:14she could have supported motions for a fair pay rise. I don't think she
0:39:14 > 0:39:24did.I always follow his remarks with a great deal of interest. Any
0:39:24 > 0:39:28cancellation is appallingly bad but does he understand the worst
0:39:28 > 0:39:31possible cancellation is a cancellation on the day of surgery,
0:39:31 > 0:39:36which is clinically unacceptable. Will he at least give the system
0:39:36 > 0:39:40credit for at least trying to introduce some sort of planning this
0:39:40 > 0:39:46year, for the first time I can remember since 1984?The honourable
0:39:46 > 0:39:50gentleman will know that the system is in the state because of years of
0:39:50 > 0:39:54sustained underfunding. I know his response, his answer, is a
0:39:54 > 0:39:58cross-party Commission, a sort of Royal Commission, and I have huge
0:39:58 > 0:40:02respect for his contributions on these debates. Let's be clear, the
0:40:02 > 0:40:06NHS has not been getting for eight years the level of funding it should
0:40:06 > 0:40:15be getting by historical terms.Down in Sussex, patients transport was
0:40:15 > 0:40:27privatised and given to a company called Copaforma. It was then
0:40:27 > 0:40:32stripped for underperforming of the contract in every way shape or form.
0:40:32 > 0:40:36It has now transpired that they have been given more money in seven
0:40:36 > 0:40:51months than they would have a full year. -- Coperforma.Even if the
0:40:51 > 0:40:58debate is allowed to run on, which is in the hands of the usual
0:40:58 > 0:41:02channels beyond four o'clock, probably half loan to do so. I say
0:41:02 > 0:41:06that now, I am not publishing a list, we will just have to do is sit
0:41:06 > 0:41:07and hope.
0:41:14 > 0:41:23I will try not to take any more interventions. This privatisation
0:41:23 > 0:41:28was an absolute disaster. It was a disaster for patients, for the
0:41:28 > 0:41:33ambulance drivers who went eight weeks without pay. He has been
0:41:33 > 0:41:43campaigning on this as have the GMB union and forest out to learn that
0:41:43 > 0:41:50having entered this contract money is still going and I praise my
0:41:50 > 0:41:56honourable friend for leading this campaign. I've talked about the
0:41:56 > 0:42:08impact of cancelled operations.
0:42:09 > 0:42:14It adds to the pressures on the service. Somebody needs of cataract
0:42:14 > 0:42:18operation and are now at risk because they can see and they could
0:42:18 > 0:42:25end up in AMD needing hospital bed. These are real people who rely on
0:42:25 > 0:42:38the NHS and whom the government is letting down. I did say I would try
0:42:38 > 0:42:42and make some progress. It's very clear we have a lot of members who
0:42:42 > 0:42:48want to speak. Now we are beginning to hear it is not just routine
0:42:48 > 0:42:53nonurgent operations being cancelled. The Times today reports
0:42:53 > 0:42:59of a hospital in Oxford considering delaying the start of chemotherapy
0:42:59 > 0:43:05due to staff salvages and lack of capacity. A four-week delay on all
0:43:05 > 0:43:10new patients needing chemotherapy and there are proposals for those of
0:43:10 > 0:43:14the first cycle to have full chemo but then discriminate against those
0:43:14 > 0:43:21on cycles to three and four giving those patients number of cycles. A
0:43:21 > 0:43:28two tier chemotherapy system. In the Guardian today we read the story of
0:43:28 > 0:43:38Carly O'Neill who entered the hospital for a cancer operation, was
0:43:38 > 0:43:43waiting in her down with wristbands in the hospital, only to be told her
0:43:43 > 0:43:46operation would have to be cancelled because there wasn't a bed
0:43:46 > 0:43:54available. Or how about my constituent Mr Jeff Brooker who was
0:43:54 > 0:43:59diagnosed with cancer of the bladder. He had his planned
0:43:59 > 0:44:06operation cancelled twice this winter and when he was asked about
0:44:06 > 0:44:09the apology from the Secretary of State he said he may have apologised
0:44:09 > 0:44:16for postponements but it was as if he was opposed -- apologising for
0:44:16 > 0:44:21the cancellation of a jumble sale. Ministers were uncaring and he
0:44:21 > 0:44:26blamed poor planning. He said if operations like mine are postponed
0:44:26 > 0:44:29its likely it will cause deaths. The decision could even be the death of
0:44:29 > 0:44:37me. Cancer patients having operations cancelled. Trusts looking
0:44:37 > 0:44:42at the laying chemotherapy and these ministers said there and they should
0:44:42 > 0:44:57be ashamed. I will give way for the last time.It is important that we
0:44:57 > 0:45:04do not make a crisis where there is not one. I have been assured by the
0:45:04 > 0:45:09University hospitals trust today that the leaked memo does not
0:45:09 > 0:45:13represent the current reality. I like him have concerns about
0:45:13 > 0:45:18recruitment and I am worried about the future of recruitment in the NHS
0:45:18 > 0:45:24but it's important that we don't current cancer patients who will
0:45:24 > 0:45:31continue to receive their treatment. The memo was e-mailed to staff in
0:45:31 > 0:45:35the last few days. If the trust is backing down on that all of us
0:45:35 > 0:45:39across the House will welcome that. But the point stands, the trust was
0:45:39 > 0:45:44looking at the laying chemotherapy and they referred to a lack of staff
0:45:44 > 0:45:48because as we know this trust has cast -- kept any beds in recent
0:45:48 > 0:46:00years including cancer beds. I am going to make some progress. We
0:46:00 > 0:46:06don't want to make more -- this moral crisis but cancelling
0:46:06 > 0:46:10operations impact on hospital finances. It means a loss of review
0:46:10 > 0:46:14-- revenue footrests who are struggling to meet their deficit
0:46:14 > 0:46:22targets. Rather than allowing waiting times to escalate further
0:46:22 > 0:46:26why won't he today committed giving hospitals emergency funds so those
0:46:26 > 0:46:31cancelled operations can be rescheduled as soon as possible and
0:46:31 > 0:46:33hospitals do not lose the revenue and get further into problems with
0:46:33 > 0:46:41their deficits. They will also know that cancellations impacts the
0:46:41 > 0:46:51training of next generation of doctors. So can he tell us if these
0:46:51 > 0:46:56cancelled operations continue what is his plan to ensure Junior doctors
0:46:56 > 0:47:02and surgeons are able to catch up on the training they need? Our patients
0:47:02 > 0:47:06deserve the best trained doctors in the world. Cancelling these
0:47:06 > 0:47:12operations impact on the training. We all agree that every penny counts
0:47:12 > 0:47:17in rising to the winter crisis caused by Downing Street. I know he
0:47:17 > 0:47:25will tell us about the winter funding but we also know that the
0:47:25 > 0:47:29winter funding came too late and NHS providers have ordered came too late
0:47:29 > 0:47:33in December. Many hospital trusts will be telling him privately that
0:47:33 > 0:47:38it came too late. It also means hospital trusts have to turn to
0:47:38 > 0:47:52expensive private staffing, agencies to get through the winter. In many
0:47:52 > 0:47:56places NHS trusts effectively held to ransom by staffing agencies. Last
0:47:56 > 0:48:02month NHS improvement refused in a request to publish how much these
0:48:02 > 0:48:05private agencies accosting individual trusts. Does he agree
0:48:05 > 0:48:10this is unacceptable and that we should now how much extra money set
0:48:10 > 0:48:17aside for winter is going to private agencies? Will he undertake to
0:48:17 > 0:48:23produce a league table naming and shaming every single agency and how
0:48:23 > 0:48:30much they have been getting from each and every trust. He will also
0:48:30 > 0:48:37tell us that the problems we have is because of an ageing society. Of
0:48:37 > 0:48:41course because of the demographics we see pressures on the service not
0:48:41 > 0:48:49just that winter but only around with patients being treated at this
0:48:49 > 0:48:52time of year putting huge pressure on the service throughout the year.
0:48:52 > 0:48:56But these demographic changes in society did not drop out of the blue
0:48:56 > 0:49:02sky in the last few weeks. We have known about these trends for years.
0:49:02 > 0:49:06Which makes it even more criminal that the government has presided
0:49:06 > 0:49:14over eight years of underfunding in the NHS. £6 million worth of cuts in
0:49:14 > 0:49:25social care. That is why we have seen delayed transfers of care
0:49:25 > 0:49:35increased. And when it comes to social care he may have the title
0:49:35 > 0:49:41but he has no plan to deal with the severe cuts we had over recent
0:49:41 > 0:49:53years. What makes this winter crisis even more serious is not just the
0:49:53 > 0:50:01cats to social care or the underfunding of the NHS is because
0:50:01 > 0:50:06the crisis takes place against the back drop of some of the most
0:50:06 > 0:50:09serious and far-reaching neglect of the health of our publishing
0:50:09 > 0:50:14perpetrated on the people of this country by more than a century. We
0:50:14 > 0:50:17have a recognised authority on public have warning that this
0:50:17 > 0:50:21country has since 2010 stalled in the task of improving the life
0:50:21 > 0:50:27expectancy of our publish and and the differences in life expectancy
0:50:27 > 0:50:31between the poorest areas of the country and most better off as
0:50:31 > 0:50:37narrowed in recent years. This is what happens with austerity and
0:50:37 > 0:50:42cats. This is what happens when you fail to invest in housing when you
0:50:42 > 0:50:46fail to invest in the installation of our housing stock, when you allow
0:50:46 > 0:50:55fuel poverty to increase, when you oversee falling incomes. The
0:50:55 > 0:50:58shocking consequences the number of hospital beds in England taken up by
0:50:58 > 0:51:05patients being treated for malnutrition doubled since 2010.
0:51:05 > 0:51:14Isn't that a disgrace.He is right about one thing which is the issue
0:51:14 > 0:51:18of demographic shift and the ageing population is directly behind some
0:51:18 > 0:51:28of the malnutrition figures. Is it not the case that the failure to
0:51:28 > 0:51:32plan for the rising and Asian publish and didn't happen in the
0:51:32 > 0:51:37last five years it's a failure of the last ten to 15 years so he
0:51:37 > 0:51:44should not pretend this has appeared overnight.We travelled the
0:51:44 > 0:51:50investment in the NHS. And the Labour government we had trolley
0:51:50 > 0:52:04waits but what are the trolley waits under this government?
0:52:05 > 0:52:14This is not just a winter crisis. This is an all-round funding crisis.
0:52:14 > 0:52:20A year around social care crisis. A year on health inequality crisis.
0:52:20 > 0:52:23Manufactured in Downing Street by this government. Eight years of
0:52:23 > 0:52:29underfunding. 14,000 beds lost. District nursing cut by three and a
0:52:29 > 0:52:35half thousand. Mental health nurses cut. GP numbers down. 40,000 nurses
0:52:35 > 0:52:47short. Social care staff demoralised.In my borough of
0:52:47 > 0:52:52Lewisham I were adolescent mental health services are facing a budget
0:52:52 > 0:52:55cut of up to 200,000 leaving children not getting the children
0:52:55 > 0:53:00they need. Will he agree with me that the government has failed to
0:53:00 > 0:53:03provide mental health services to some of the most vulnerable in
0:53:03 > 0:53:15society.50% of children's mental health services not with the money.
0:53:15 > 0:53:19Yet we have this Secretary of State in place. Isn't the truth doctors
0:53:19 > 0:53:22and nurses have lost confidence in him. Haitians have lost confidence
0:53:22 > 0:53:28in him. The Prime Minister it seems has lost confidence in him. He
0:53:28 > 0:53:34fights for his own job but he would fight for the NHS. Our patients are
0:53:34 > 0:53:38crying out for change and they were like that the Health Secretary still
0:53:38 > 0:53:45in post today and see that to coin a phrase that has changed, nothing is
0:53:45 > 0:53:51changed. I commend our motion to the House.The question is as on the
0:53:51 > 0:54:02order paper.Let me start by saying on behalf of the whole House a
0:54:02 > 0:54:06massive thank you to all staff across the health and care system
0:54:06 > 0:54:12who went beyond the call of duty, gave up their Christmases and new
0:54:12 > 0:54:16years to keep patients say. Their dedication makes the NHS the best
0:54:16 > 0:54:19health care system in the world. They demonstrated quite visibly
0:54:19 > 0:54:25through the values constantly putting the needs of patients before
0:54:25 > 0:54:33there. But I am afraid that attempts to politicise pressures on the NHS
0:54:33 > 0:54:40are a serious mistake. The last time the NHS had a really difficult flu
0:54:40 > 0:54:46winter was 20 -- 2009 and he was working in Downing Street at the
0:54:46 > 0:54:53time. At the time the Shadow Health Secretary refused to attack the
0:54:53 > 0:54:57government because it was an operational issue. Andy Burnham the
0:54:57 > 0:55:02Health Secretary thanked him for his measured tone so that together we
0:55:02 > 0:55:07can give a reassuring message to the public. Sadly I cannot say that
0:55:07 > 0:55:16today. He says in some of the extraordinary language he has been
0:55:16 > 0:55:29using the NHS is on its knees so let's look at the facts.
0:55:29 > 0:55:3314,000 more doctors since 2010. 12,000 more nurses on awards. 5000
0:55:33 > 0:55:41more operations every day. In A&E 's, 1800 more people being seen and
0:55:41 > 0:55:50treated within four hours every single day than 2010. I give way.In
0:55:50 > 0:55:55the note of sounding conservatory I thank him for giving way. The Royal
0:55:55 > 0:56:00Bolton Hospital made provisions for the Christmas period but despite
0:56:00 > 0:56:06that they have now had to cancel all of their routine operations as well
0:56:06 > 0:56:10as elective operations in trauma and orthopaedics. I am told the 1st of
0:56:10 > 0:56:16February 2018. Can I therefore ask what provision and financial
0:56:16 > 0:56:19assistance is he going to provide for my local hospital so that they
0:56:19 > 0:56:25don't suffer as a result of this?
0:56:25 > 0:56:31We did provide an extra £1.4 million for the hospital before Christmas.
0:56:31 > 0:56:36Let me deal with the cancelled operation, I agree it is a big deal
0:56:36 > 0:56:40for patients who are told that their planned procedure is going to be
0:56:40 > 0:56:44postponed and no one wants to minimise the distress that it
0:56:44 > 0:56:48causes. But what happened last year and what's happened in previous
0:56:48 > 0:56:54winters that is operations have been cancelled at the last moment and
0:56:54 > 0:56:57that is much more distressing and much more challenging for hospitals
0:56:57 > 0:57:01to plan around that. So the decision was taken to do this in a much more
0:57:01 > 0:57:06planned way. We hope that over all we will see fewer operations
0:57:06 > 0:57:14cancelled at the last moment. But we need to do it in a planned way.I
0:57:14 > 0:57:19can't myself for intervening, somebody close in my family was a
0:57:19 > 0:57:22person who was about to go into the operating theatre last year. I came
0:57:22 > 0:57:29to the Secretary of state about it and I can tell you it wasn't a good
0:57:29 > 0:57:32experience, it is much better experience to be planning and giving
0:57:32 > 0:57:35people notice and the emergencies will happen, but those that can plan
0:57:35 > 0:57:40ahead and we can have a better system, I think that is a good move
0:57:40 > 0:57:44that this Government has put in place.My honourable friend is right
0:57:44 > 0:57:49and I hope she won't mind me saying in her case it was a cancer issue
0:57:49 > 0:57:55and one of the things that this allows us to do is make sure we
0:57:55 > 0:58:01don't have to cancel cancer operations at the last moment that.
0:58:01 > 0:58:06Moment. That is what we are trying to do. I heard there was someone,
0:58:06 > 0:58:14yes I will give way.I'm grateful, but intervene, when I had cancer
0:58:14 > 0:58:19treatment, if my operation had been cancelled I could have come to this
0:58:19 > 0:58:24House and ask the Secretary of State to intervene, but I'm speaking on
0:58:24 > 0:58:31behalf a person who went to press to talk about her cancer operation,
0:58:31 > 0:58:40what can she say to her?What I will say is the instructions from NHS
0:58:40 > 0:58:43England couldn't be clearer that cancer operations should not be
0:58:43 > 0:58:52cancelled. From the perspective of the government and the NHS senior
0:58:52 > 0:58:55leadership and should raise that with me, because we want to preserve
0:58:55 > 0:59:06the capacity for the people who most need it. I will give way.The
0:59:06 > 0:59:11Secretary of State complains of politicisation of the NHS, many
0:59:11 > 0:59:18colleagues are offering a different approach and a mature conversation
0:59:18 > 0:59:23to come up with a solution. Lord Saatchi and others are arguing for
0:59:23 > 0:59:28the same thing. Will he embrace that approach - a civilised approach that
0:59:28 > 0:59:31comes up with a consensus for the country about how we secure our
0:59:31 > 0:59:36health and care system?I have said publicly that I think as we come to
0:59:36 > 0:59:40the end of five year forward view, we need to look to find a consensus
0:59:40 > 0:59:48for the next stage for the NHS, we will see need more funding, we need
0:59:48 > 0:59:54to build a national consensus to feigned that funding and my view is
0:59:54 > 0:59:59we should do that for a ten-year period. I'm open to all discussion
0:59:59 > 1:00:02about the best way to do that, but we heard from the shadow Health
1:00:02 > 1:00:07Secretary that the party opposite is not interested in being part of the
1:00:07 > 1:00:13discussions and that is why it illustrates how difficult it is to
1:00:13 > 1:00:18make a consensus. I will make progress. I want to look at what he
1:00:18 > 1:00:23said about winter, he said that the Government, the word he used, again,
1:00:23 > 1:00:30he said the Government was sleep walking into winter. This has been
1:00:30 > 1:00:36contradicted by the medical of NHS England, who said it is the one
1:00:36 > 1:00:39winter we are best prepared for and we started preparing a year earlier,
1:00:39 > 1:00:47we have a good plan, Chris Hobson of NHS providers who is regularly
1:00:47 > 1:00:51criticising the Government, he said this time preparations have never
1:00:51 > 1:00:55been more thorough. Let's look and I will make some progress and then
1:00:55 > 1:01:00give way. A billion pounds into the social care system. Because the
1:01:00 > 1:01:03biggest lesson from last year was that pressure in the social care
1:01:03 > 1:01:08system was making it difficult for hospitals to discharge. What has
1:01:08 > 1:01:14been the result of that invest? Combined with an extra £337 million
1:01:14 > 1:01:21in the budget we have 1,100 hospital beds freed up by reducing the number
1:01:21 > 1:01:27of delayed transfers of care and 2,700 additional acute beds
1:01:27 > 1:01:37commissioned. The shadow Health Secretary said it is unacceptable
1:01:37 > 1:01:45Nat 85% bed occupancy has been missed. I said I will give way in a
1:01:45 > 1:01:52moment. Secondly, because many patients can be better seen by GPs,
1:01:52 > 1:01:58in the spring Budget last year, £100 million of capital was allocated to
1:01:58 > 1:02:02help hospitals set up GP streaming services. In the year he said the
1:02:02 > 1:02:10government was sleep walking, the number of type one trusts with GP
1:02:10 > 1:02:15streaming has tripled. And we also made it easier for people to access
1:02:15 > 1:02:22GPs and nurses over the Christmas period and for the first time people
1:02:22 > 1:02:31were able to get urgent GP appointments. The number of 111
1:02:31 > 1:02:38calls dealt with by a clinician has increased to nearly 40%. That has
1:02:38 > 1:02:45massively reduced pressures on A&Es. I give way.Thank you. I'm grateful.
1:02:45 > 1:02:49Just draw to the Secretary of State's attention the fact that we
1:02:49 > 1:02:53continue to have no Northern Ireland Executive. We have no local health
1:02:53 > 1:02:56minister in Northern Ireland. So there is a specific problem in
1:02:56 > 1:03:04Northern Ireland. The NHS staff in Northern Ireland are superb, but
1:03:04 > 1:03:10they have been under enormous pressure and the ambulance crews, it
1:03:10 > 1:03:15is demoralising and wearisome for them. This government must take some
1:03:15 > 1:03:17responsibility in the continued absence of Northern Ireland
1:03:17 > 1:03:22Executive. Could he assure me and tell me what recent discussions he
1:03:22 > 1:03:26has had and with whom in Northern Ireland about dealing with the
1:03:26 > 1:03:32crisis in the NHS and the ambulance crews in Northern Ireland?Well, she
1:03:32 > 1:03:35will understand, because I'm the Health Secretary for England, I
1:03:35 > 1:03:41haven't been having a lot of is discussion about the situation in
1:03:41 > 1:03:47Northern Ireland. But I don't want to agree with her that it is
1:03:47 > 1:03:52unhelpful for the NHS in Northern Ireland if there isn't an Executive.
1:03:52 > 1:03:57The former Northern Irish Secretary and the House wishes him well with
1:03:57 > 1:04:00his medical challenges, but he was very engaged in trying to address
1:04:00 > 1:04:05this and I know the new Northern Irish Secretary will make it her top
1:04:05 > 1:04:08priority, because it matters so much for public services. I will give
1:04:08 > 1:04:13way.Thank you for giving way. He doesn't want to get drawn into
1:04:13 > 1:04:17Northern Ireland, but the Prime Minister seems to be willing at
1:04:17 > 1:04:24every opportunity to attempt to smear the Welsh NHS. Spending in
1:04:24 > 1:04:31Wales is 8% higher per head than in England. It went un-4.5% last year.
1:04:31 > 1:04:34We are putting funding up, but the Prime Minister seems to suggest
1:04:34 > 1:04:40otherwise.Well, he forgets the Barnett formula is the reason why
1:04:40 > 1:04:43spending is higher in Wales. But I have things to say about the
1:04:43 > 1:04:48situation in Wales. I will oblige him later. I will give way.Could I
1:04:48 > 1:04:52bring the Secretary of State back to the point about the benefit of
1:04:52 > 1:04:58having gap-led services in hospitals to take the pressure off A&E and
1:04:58 > 1:05:03commend Solihull hospital or the doing that and with a reduction in
1:05:03 > 1:05:07those, the winter pressures, the examples that have been given and
1:05:07 > 1:05:12could that be replicated across the NHS?This is what is so
1:05:12 > 1:05:22disappointing about some of the tone we have been hearing. We seeing
1:05:22 > 1:05:26reforms that are making a real difference and I commend what is
1:05:26 > 1:05:30happening in Solihull, but the key to solving the long-term pressures
1:05:30 > 1:05:35on our emergency departments is to be better at treating people in the
1:05:35 > 1:05:42community and the van guard areas of the NHS are seen their growth in
1:05:42 > 1:05:46emergency admissions about half the national average and this is the
1:05:46 > 1:05:51five-year view that we are rolling out. And I think we need to
1:05:51 > 1:05:54celebrate where that success is. I'm going the make some progress before
1:05:54 > 1:05:59I give way further. Because there is something important that we haven't
1:05:59 > 1:06:04been talking about very much, which is extremely relevant to people on
1:06:04 > 1:06:10the NHS front line and that is flu. We have had a much bigger spike in
1:06:10 > 1:06:17flu cases this year, a much bigger spike than we have had at any time
1:06:17 > 1:06:23since the winter of 2009. But we have the most comprehensive flu
1:06:23 > 1:06:26vaccination programme in Europe and this year it was made available to
1:06:26 > 1:06:30people who are eight years and under and to care home staff and the
1:06:30 > 1:06:34result is that we have a million more people vaccinated for flu this
1:06:34 > 1:06:41year than in the year before. And uptake among NHS staff is at 59.3%,
1:06:41 > 1:06:44the highest ever. So I just say this, because the honourable
1:06:44 > 1:06:48gentleman seems to be trying to make the case that no preparations were
1:06:48 > 1:06:53made when the reality is that the NHS could not have been working
1:06:53 > 1:06:58harder to prepare for this winter. And I want to make this point, the
1:06:58 > 1:07:02result of those preparations is that A&E performance having been
1:07:02 > 1:07:06declining for six years in a row, last year for the first time
1:07:06 > 1:07:11according to the latest data, actually stabilised. In the week
1:07:11 > 1:07:15after Christmas, compared to the year before we had fewer A&E
1:07:15 > 1:07:21diverts, more calls to NHS 11. The trolley waits which people have been
1:07:21 > 1:07:26talking about and it unacceptable for people to be left on a trolley
1:07:26 > 1:07:33for a long time, but the November figures show they were down three
1:07:33 > 1:07:37quarters compared to the previous November. A huge amount has been
1:07:37 > 1:07:45happening.Does he think that patients being treated in cleaning
1:07:45 > 1:07:50cup boards, six patients in four bed bays without lockerser curtains or
1:07:50 > 1:07:54call bells is a sign of good preparation for the winter crisis.
1:07:54 > 1:07:58It is unacceptable. But what is disappointing that is she stands up
1:07:58 > 1:08:08and runs down the NHS when her own trust which received £3.4 million of
1:08:08 > 1:08:14funding before Christmas to help with winter has managed to improve
1:08:14 > 1:08:20performance last November's figures 91.8%, compared to 77.7% a year
1:08:20 > 1:08:25earlier. That is a huge achievement. Why won't she praise what is
1:08:25 > 1:08:31happening, rather than rung it down? Very grateful and I support the
1:08:31 > 1:08:34leadership he has offered for this winter crisis and support the tone
1:08:34 > 1:08:43he has been atopting in this debate -- adopting in this debate and now
1:08:43 > 1:08:49he has widened responsibilities for social care, can he help west
1:08:49 > 1:08:53Berkshire who have had problems with past formulas and don't have enough
1:08:53 > 1:08:58money to take the pressure off the hospital in the way he would like?I
1:08:58 > 1:09:02will revisit the issues in his local authority, because I have looked at
1:09:02 > 1:09:08them before and I know there are particular precious there. But he
1:09:08 > 1:09:10alights on again something which the opposition have not wanted to talk
1:09:10 > 1:09:14about, which is significant, which is the Prime Minister's commitment
1:09:14 > 1:09:20to the integration of health and social care, something which eluded
1:09:20 > 1:09:24the last Labour Government over 13 year, we are now starting to see
1:09:24 > 1:09:30this happen and the decision made on Monday means that the decision means
1:09:30 > 1:09:34that policy leadership will come back to the Department of Health
1:09:34 > 1:09:44which will help it progress faster. I will give way one more time.I
1:09:44 > 1:09:47would like to bring back the point about caring for people before they
1:09:47 > 1:09:52get to hospital and issues to do with GPs in my local area there has
1:09:52 > 1:09:59been a difficult recruiting GPs and the investment in increasing medical
1:09:59 > 1:10:03training for new doctors is vital. I would like to take this opportunity
1:10:03 > 1:10:08to plead with the Secretary of state to look at the bid from Anglia
1:10:08 > 1:10:14Ruskin university to become the first medical school in Essex, where
1:10:14 > 1:10:19is there is no path way for young people to train as doctors within
1:10:19 > 1:10:27the county.I note her very persuasive plea for her local
1:10:27 > 1:10:32university and this is not a decision that I'm going to be
1:10:32 > 1:10:35taking, because my own university is also keen to offer more medical
1:10:35 > 1:10:41places. But she is right, to say that training the next generation of
1:10:41 > 1:10:47doctors and nurses is again the long-term solution to the pressures.
1:10:47 > 1:10:53I'm going to make some progress and then I will give way, a final set of
1:10:53 > 1:10:58interventions. Now, the heart of the shadow Health Secretary's case that
1:10:58 > 1:11:04is winter pressures are caused by political decisions and not by
1:11:04 > 1:11:09operational issues. So let's put aside the difficult winters that
1:11:09 > 1:11:14Labour had in 1999, 2008 and 2009, but if he is going to drag politics
1:11:14 > 1:11:19into this, he cannot say that it is the fault of politicians in England
1:11:19 > 1:11:26and then totally ly gloss over the responsibility of politicians in
1:11:26 > 1:11:30Wales, where the royal college of emergency medicine say it is a
1:11:30 > 1:11:38battlefield and patient safety is compromise and it is unsafe and I
1:11:38 > 1:11:43say to him this, if it is the government's fault in England that
1:11:43 > 1:11:49one in nine A&E patients are waiting too long, whose fault is it in Wales
1:11:49 > 1:11:54where one in six are waiting too long and that the test results if
1:11:54 > 1:11:57you're waiting in Wales, you're nine times more likely to wait too long.
1:11:57 > 1:12:04I give way.
1:12:04 > 1:12:08I thank my Right Honourable friend for giving way. As far as the Welsh
1:12:08 > 1:12:13NHS is concerned he is right. If I may have slight indulgence, may I
1:12:13 > 1:12:18give a quote from an A&E nurse in Wales who gave this quote last week:
1:12:18 > 1:12:24"On every shift both corridors are full of patients on trolleys. We are
1:12:24 > 1:12:26housing ambulance crews for longer than ever due to bed is not being
1:12:26 > 1:12:30available in the hospital, patients are being nursed in inappropriate
1:12:30 > 1:12:34areas due to no space. I've seen nurses in tears. I myself have been
1:12:34 > 1:12:39in tears. This is the first time I've ever been demoralised and
1:12:39 > 1:12:46embarrassed to say I'm an A&E nurse in Wales." That's in Wales under
1:12:46 > 1:12:48Welsh Labour. With the Right Honourable gentleman agree with me
1:12:48 > 1:12:51that that is pure hypocrisy coming from that side of the House and they
1:12:51 > 1:12:54should take notice of the mistakes that have been made in Wales?I
1:12:54 > 1:12:59totally agree with my honourable friend. I totally agree with my
1:12:59 > 1:13:03honourable friend, and I think this is the central flaw in the case that
1:13:03 > 1:13:07the party opposite are making. We know winter is the most difficult
1:13:07 > 1:13:11time, but they cannot say there is political responsibility in one part
1:13:11 > 1:13:15of the UK and say absolutely nothing, I noticed the Shadow Health
1:13:15 > 1:13:18Secretary looking at his notes when we talk about Wales, but the reality
1:13:18 > 1:13:22is it blows apart his case. According to the BMA there is one
1:13:22 > 1:13:27area where not a single doctor was available overnight, and there is
1:13:27 > 1:13:31one A&E where performance has fallen to 40%, something unheard of in
1:13:31 > 1:13:35England, or indeed in Scotland. But there is a political decision that
1:13:35 > 1:13:41has a big impact on NHS winter performance, and it's something my
1:13:41 > 1:13:44honourable friend from Chelmsford talked about earlier, which is the
1:13:44 > 1:13:49number of doctors that we train. Not once in my time as Health Secretary
1:13:49 > 1:13:51have I heard Labour called for an increase in training places. But the
1:13:51 > 1:13:57simple truth is... The simple truth is that there is no point in
1:13:57 > 1:14:00throwing money at a problem if you don't have the doctors and nurses
1:14:00 > 1:14:06available to spend that money on. Whilst I have been Health Secretary
1:14:06 > 1:14:11we have 40,000 more doctors, nurses and other clinicians working in the
1:14:11 > 1:14:14NHS. But we need more and that is why under this Prime Minister we
1:14:14 > 1:14:18have announced the biggest increase in training places for doctors and
1:14:18 > 1:14:23nurses in the history of the NHS. I will give weight to the honourable
1:14:23 > 1:14:27gentleman and then I will give way. Can I take him back to the issue of
1:14:27 > 1:14:31social care, and by the way, congratulations on facing down the
1:14:31 > 1:14:35primers on Monday, you emerged as one man, two jobs and no governor!
1:14:35 > 1:14:42But he must accept that the cuts of £6 billion since 2010 in social care
1:14:42 > 1:14:49has had a major impact, particularly on winter crises. Does he regret the
1:14:49 > 1:14:52Government's decision to take the money out of social care?
1:14:52 > 1:14:56What I would say to him is that in 2010 we were facing the worst
1:14:56 > 1:15:02financial crisis the Second World War. He will know which government
1:15:02 > 1:15:06was in charge when that happened. People were talking about a run on
1:15:06 > 1:15:10the pound, and I noticed the party opposite continues to talk about a
1:15:10 > 1:15:15run on the pound, and that crisis had to be addressed. We, like other
1:15:15 > 1:15:19countries, had to make significant reductions in public funding. But
1:15:19 > 1:15:23when we got the economy back on its feet, when we started creating jobs,
1:15:23 > 1:15:281000 jobs a day since 2010, what was the first place with that extra
1:15:28 > 1:15:33money into? The NHS and indeed the social care system, £600 million
1:15:33 > 1:15:38more in the social care system than two years ago. I want to progress
1:15:38 > 1:15:40because there are lots of people that want to speak this afternoon
1:15:40 > 1:15:44and I'm going to conclude my remarks. I will give weight to my
1:15:44 > 1:15:47honourable friend.I thank him for giving way, he knows of my interest
1:15:47 > 1:15:51in the Ambulance Services and I was on duty for Yorkshire Ambulance
1:15:51 > 1:15:54Services responder for Christmas and New Year and will be again tomorrow
1:15:54 > 1:15:58night. When he talks about workforce planning he talks about doctors and
1:15:58 > 1:16:02nurses quite rightly. Will he say something about how incredibly well
1:16:02 > 1:16:08trained paramedics can be used to better relieve some of the pressure
1:16:08 > 1:16:11that we see at A&E and some of the delays that occur there?I thank him
1:16:11 > 1:16:13for his work as a first responder because it's a fantastic example in
1:16:13 > 1:16:17his community. We have several hundred more paramedics and we have
1:16:17 > 1:16:20several years ago. He's absolutely right, the role of paramedics has
1:16:20 > 1:16:24been dramatically changed over recent years. It used to be about
1:16:24 > 1:16:27scooping people up and taking them to hospitals. Now we are treating
1:16:27 > 1:16:31many more people on the spot, and they have an extraordinarily
1:16:31 > 1:16:35important role. But it is a changed role, and it is a changed emphasis,
1:16:35 > 1:16:39as in other parts of the NHS, which is moving towards doing as much as
1:16:39 > 1:16:42we can to treat people safely outside hospitals, to keep them at
1:16:42 > 1:16:46home, because we know that is the safest way. I'm going to give way
1:16:46 > 1:16:53one last time. I can see that... I will give way to a couple more.I'm
1:16:53 > 1:16:57grateful to the Health Secretary for giving way. The simple fact is if we
1:16:57 > 1:17:02want to see more care in community to the government must start -- stop
1:17:02 > 1:17:06slashing social care budgets, if we want to stop people coming to
1:17:06 > 1:17:14hospital with preventable diseases we must put more money in full so
1:17:14 > 1:17:21when you look at the money going in the government is penny wise and
1:17:21 > 1:17:24pound foolish.3 million additional jobs created so we have a strong
1:17:24 > 1:17:27additional, economic record which is why we have been increasing funding
1:17:27 > 1:17:31on social care recently. We have increased funding on the NHS
1:17:31 > 1:17:36significantly, and as for slashing funding, his local trust received
1:17:36 > 1:17:41£9.7 million before Christmas. I give way.I'm grateful to my Right
1:17:41 > 1:17:44Honourable friend. Can I ask him to reflect on the issue of beds and
1:17:44 > 1:17:50inform him that as a result of some of the measures taken by him in
1:17:50 > 1:17:55recent weeks, Shrewsbury and Telford Hospital trust in my area managed to
1:17:55 > 1:17:58release an extra 120 beds to help cope with the significant winter
1:17:58 > 1:18:03pressures they have received. Would he agree with me that in areas which
1:18:03 > 1:18:06have community hospitals, such as Bridgnorth Community Hospital and
1:18:06 > 1:18:09Ludlow Community Hospital in my area where there are community beds, that
1:18:09 > 1:18:13they have a role to play in releasing pressure on the acute
1:18:13 > 1:18:17hospitals for those patients that no longer need acute care?I do agree
1:18:17 > 1:18:20with that. But as he has intervened in this debate I want to take the
1:18:20 > 1:18:24chance to thank him for being absolutely superb Minister of stay
1:18:24 > 1:18:27at the Department of Health, and the fact that the NHS is better prepared
1:18:27 > 1:18:32this year than it has been for very many years is partly because of his
1:18:32 > 1:18:36efforts. I want to commend him for his fantastic contribution. I will
1:18:36 > 1:18:40give weight one final time.Does my Right Honourable friend agree with
1:18:40 > 1:18:44me that the calibre of local trust leadership can play a huge role in
1:18:44 > 1:18:48this? In Gloucestershire new trust leadership has tackled head on
1:18:48 > 1:18:52serious internal financial failings and as a result A&E times have been
1:18:52 > 1:18:55slashed and turned around. In December the A&E waiting targets
1:18:55 > 1:18:59were met. Does he not agree that this shows what can be done with the
1:18:59 > 1:19:05right leadership?It absolutely does and no one campaigns more vigorously
1:19:05 > 1:19:08for local trusts than my Right Honourable friend. I visited the
1:19:08 > 1:19:11Gloucester sight of his trust and met the management and staff just
1:19:11 > 1:19:13before Christmas and it is extraordinarily impressive and a
1:19:13 > 1:19:18great inspiration to many parts of the NHS. I just want to finish by
1:19:18 > 1:19:21talking about the issue of funding, because the Shadow Health Secretary
1:19:21 > 1:19:25again has been using very strong language, conveniently overlooking
1:19:25 > 1:19:30the fact that in the last four years real terms funding for the NHS has
1:19:30 > 1:19:36increased by £9.3 billion. That is £5.5 billion more than his party
1:19:36 > 1:19:43were promising in 2015. But he is right. I'm going to conclude my
1:19:43 > 1:19:46comments now because a lot of honourable member is to speak. He is
1:19:46 > 1:19:52right that there are real pressures. What are the facts? We spend 9.9% of
1:19:52 > 1:19:57our GDP on health, that's 1% above the EU average and about the same as
1:19:57 > 1:20:01the EU 15, the Western European countries. But we want to spend more
1:20:01 > 1:20:08so this is what we've been doing. In England from 2011 funding went up by
1:20:08 > 1:20:1315.6%. In Wales Labour chose to only increase it by 8%. This motion is
1:20:13 > 1:20:16about money and I just want to conclude by saying this. When it
1:20:16 > 1:20:22comes to NHS funding Labour give the speeches but Conservatives give the
1:20:22 > 1:20:30cash. SPEAKER:Dr Philippa Whitford. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Like others
1:20:30 > 1:20:38across the House I want to thank all staff in all four UK systems who is
1:20:38 > 1:20:41as Secretary of State said have gone above the Call Of Duty to focus on
1:20:41 > 1:20:45their patients. I don't think any debate we have in here is intended
1:20:45 > 1:20:50to upset, or insult any of them. Before I start them before the
1:20:50 > 1:20:53honourable member for Ludlow perhaps leaves the chamber, if I could thank
1:20:53 > 1:21:01him for his service as a Minister of stay for help and I have often met
1:21:01 > 1:21:05across the chamber. I'd like to correct a comment he made in answer
1:21:05 > 1:21:09to my question on Monday, which was incorrect. He claimed at that time
1:21:09 > 1:21:13that the number of patients waiting longer than 12 hours in A&E in
1:21:13 > 1:21:18England was half the level in Scotland. Now, naturally I would
1:21:18 > 1:21:24have expected a Minister to know all the stats and what they mean. In
1:21:24 > 1:21:27England data is only published for the percentage of patients who meet
1:21:27 > 1:21:32or do not meet the four-hour target. There is no publication of data of
1:21:32 > 1:21:37eight hours or 12 hours. What happens is the clock restarts for
1:21:37 > 1:21:42patients who require admissions, and that is defined from the decision to
1:21:42 > 1:21:49admit until they get a bed and are known as trolley waits. So, 48,000
1:21:49 > 1:21:54patients waited over four hours on a trolley after their four-hour wait
1:21:54 > 1:22:01in A&E to get a bed and the 109 he was referring to had waited over 12
1:22:01 > 1:22:07hours on a trolley for a bed after the four or five hours they had
1:22:07 > 1:22:10waited in A&E, and therefore this was utterly incorrect to compare
1:22:10 > 1:22:14that with the Scottish data where we have a single clock from when the
1:22:14 > 1:22:19patient starts right through until they get where they are going. I
1:22:19 > 1:22:24simply want to clarify that while the member is in the chamber.I
1:22:24 > 1:22:28thank the honourable member for giving way. That doesn't negate the
1:22:28 > 1:22:33fact, and I know this is one of the past time the SNP want to engage in,
1:22:33 > 1:22:38comparing Scotland and England, it is a fascination for them. But the
1:22:38 > 1:22:44reality is that in my constituency in Stirling served by an excellent
1:22:44 > 1:22:50hospital, 57% of the patients only were seen within four hours in the
1:22:50 > 1:22:53last week of last year because we have a flu epidemic in Scotland, as
1:22:53 > 1:22:59they do in England, and I think that should be acknowledged.I thank the
1:22:59 > 1:23:01honourable member for his intervention and if he would give me
1:23:01 > 1:23:05a bit longer I would intend to talk about the flu epidemic. I think
1:23:05 > 1:23:09before he gets too celebratory he might want to wait until tomorrow
1:23:09 > 1:23:13until we have come parable data, because while in Scotland the data
1:23:13 > 1:23:18is published every week, in England it's only published every month. I
1:23:18 > 1:23:22am glad, however, that we no longer wait six weeks after the end of the
1:23:22 > 1:23:26month, ten weeks after the start of it, but get it a fortnight later so
1:23:26 > 1:23:30that will be available tomorrow and then he can compare hospital trusts
1:23:30 > 1:23:35in England with hospitals in Scotland to his heart's content. As
1:23:35 > 1:23:39someone who celebrates the United Kingdom, I think the fact that
1:23:39 > 1:23:44Scotland has led the entire UK since March 2015 on emergency admissions
1:23:44 > 1:23:49and A&E would be something he might actually want to praise. Having
1:23:49 > 1:23:53corrected that, all of us recognise this is a particularly tough winter
1:23:53 > 1:23:58because there has been an outbreak of flu on top of a bad freeze. Now,
1:23:58 > 1:24:02I would point out for those of you who think the worst is past, the flu
1:24:02 > 1:24:07season goes until March, and at the moment this is an outbreak, it isn't
1:24:07 > 1:24:13an epidemic on its an outbreak. At it comes on top of underlying
1:24:13 > 1:24:18pressures. And obviously we see right across the four nations that
1:24:18 > 1:24:21this has involved staff having to really come as I said, go above and
1:24:21 > 1:24:28beyond the Call Of Duty. Now, I think it's unfortunate, and whether
1:24:28 > 1:24:32it was how Public Health England said it, or how the media reacted to
1:24:32 > 1:24:35it, but this business of describing in public that the flu vaccination
1:24:35 > 1:24:41doesn't work is irresponsible. The flu vaccination recipe is planned
1:24:41 > 1:24:46why the World Health Organisation at the beginning of each year. They
1:24:46 > 1:24:49will already be working on next year's flew. They do not have a
1:24:49 > 1:24:54crystal ball and people who have what we call in the medical
1:24:54 > 1:24:57profession a retrospective scope should recognise that that tool was
1:24:57 > 1:25:01not available at the time the decisions were made. Flu. It is a
1:25:01 > 1:25:08biological process to produce a vaccine and it takes months, so the
1:25:08 > 1:25:13position is made in March for the northern hemisphere, and all of the
1:25:13 > 1:25:19companies produce to that recipe. Headlines in Scotland implying the
1:25:19 > 1:25:23Scottish Government pop down to Boots and took the wrong vaccine
1:25:23 > 1:25:28off-the-shelf art facile, but it actually encourages people not to
1:25:28 > 1:25:33bother. We already have falling vaccination rates in childhood
1:25:33 > 1:25:41vaccination and in flu. We should be pointing out that multiple flu
1:25:41 > 1:25:47viruses are circulating, and while all the talk in the media's is, of
1:25:47 > 1:25:50Australian flu that is about a quarter of the strains circulating
1:25:50 > 1:25:56for someone of the issues around flu is it happens in cold weather. We
1:25:56 > 1:25:58get the coldest weather in the United Kingdom, so we have double
1:25:58 > 1:26:05the rate of flu that you have done here in England. We also had a worse
1:26:05 > 1:26:09freeze and are continuing to have a worse freeze, so in actual fact,
1:26:09 > 1:26:12when you are looking at the data I think you will see that Scotland,
1:26:12 > 1:26:16when the data comes out tomorrow, will still lead the UK. We won't be
1:26:16 > 1:26:22performing to the level that we want to. We haven't met the 95% target
1:26:22 > 1:26:26for emergency departments since August. But England hasn't met them
1:26:26 > 1:26:31since 2015 and sadly Wales has not met them since 2008, so this is a
1:26:31 > 1:26:35challenge right across, but Scotland has been more resilient. I call on
1:26:35 > 1:26:42all MPs to encourage staff and people to get flu vaccination,
1:26:42 > 1:26:44because this will continue until March, and it is still absolutely
1:26:44 > 1:26:47worth doing.
1:26:47 > 1:26:56One of the issue is the Secretary of State talks as if the problems in
1:26:56 > 1:27:00A&E are due to people who shouldn't be there. People who work there say
1:27:00 > 1:27:07that isn't the case. With fractured ankles and wrists on the ice, A&Es
1:27:07 > 1:27:14will have been busy, having people carted in and X rayed and what we
1:27:14 > 1:27:18Saul in Scotland getting a stookie put on before they go home that,
1:27:18 > 1:27:27will take time. Anyone who works in A&E will say the issue is frail,
1:27:27 > 1:27:30sick people with often multiple conditions. Whether they have
1:27:30 > 1:27:38fractured their hip or have a respirty problem secondary to flu
1:27:38 > 1:27:42they need a bed and there is not enough beds.I thank the honourable
1:27:42 > 1:27:50lady, I do work in A&E and I have spent some shifts in recess working
1:27:50 > 1:27:57in A&E on new year's eve. Many of the people attending where I work
1:27:57 > 1:28:02are there because they're frail, they're also there because this
1:28:02 > 1:28:09Government has ensured they can't get an appointment with their GP and
1:28:09 > 1:28:13we don't have mental health budgets. I thank the honourable lady or the
1:28:13 > 1:28:18the intervention. The shape of medicine has changed, more is
1:28:18 > 1:28:22delivered in primary care. More surgery is delivered in a day. If
1:28:22 > 1:28:26you're doing a straight forward operation on an older patient, they
1:28:26 > 1:28:34will still always require longer rehabilitation, they're more likely
1:28:34 > 1:28:39to stay self-days, if their fracture their hip they will require full
1:28:39 > 1:28:44rehabilitation before they go home and the beds in England have been
1:28:44 > 1:28:47halved since 1987 throughout successive governments and if you
1:28:47 > 1:28:53look at the NHS stats that were released for the end of the second
1:28:53 > 1:28:57quarter of 17/18 there has been almost a thousand beds lost even
1:28:57 > 1:29:03since the winter of last year, where it was described as a humanitarian
1:29:03 > 1:29:09crisis that. Was a wint hear the was mild and didn't have a flu outbreak.
1:29:09 > 1:29:16England only has 2.4 beds per thousand population. The EU 15 has
1:29:16 > 1:29:223.7 and in Scotland we have more than 4. If you're running constantly
1:29:22 > 1:29:28with bed occupancy over 85% or over 90%, that is where the issue lies. I
1:29:28 > 1:29:34give way.Thank you she referred to the decreasing number of beds
1:29:34 > 1:29:39available, we have got a bottleneck in many hospitals due to lack of
1:29:39 > 1:29:44social care and one day in my area over half of ambulance transfers
1:29:44 > 1:29:53were completed within the required period, so the Secretary of State
1:29:53 > 1:29:56likes to quote statistics but I would like give him that one to
1:29:56 > 1:30:02think about.There will be a lot of talk about the 4 hour target and the
1:30:02 > 1:30:06numbers, as I have said before, it is a thermometer to look at the
1:30:06 > 1:30:10entire system from the patient turning up at A&E to them going home
1:30:10 > 1:30:17and that is what it is a measure of and it is there to flag up concern.
1:30:17 > 1:30:23Why we get that data, we have already seen ambulances queueing 12
1:30:23 > 1:30:27deep and heard 75,000 patients between half an hour and an hour
1:30:27 > 1:30:33stuck in an ambulance. As was mentioned by the member for
1:30:33 > 1:30:38Nottingham I think, not sure, who is no longer in his place, this means
1:30:38 > 1:30:43the ambulances are not available to respond to other 999 calls and that
1:30:43 > 1:30:54does endanger patients. I think that...Thank you, I apologise, I
1:30:54 > 1:30:57believe she may have been answering the point, I accept the point she
1:30:57 > 1:31:02makes that many in A&E need to be in A&E, but the admissions have gone up
1:31:02 > 1:31:08by 20% over the last ten years into A&E to 6 million a year. And I would
1:31:08 > 1:31:13ask her to come back to the point about GPs, and whether there is more
1:31:13 > 1:31:19interventions that could be made by GPs to some of those admission being
1:31:19 > 1:31:25made.I'm not sure whether the honourable gentleman meant
1:31:25 > 1:31:31attendances at A&E or admissions, which he said.Attendance. If you
1:31:31 > 1:31:38speak to people in A&E, attendances tend to be higher in the summer, it
1:31:38 > 1:31:48issed a admissions that are higher in winter and winter is dominated by
1:31:48 > 1:31:53people who are sick. You want the 11 system to work. But the problem
1:31:53 > 1:31:59comes if that gets too complicated and patients can't work out where
1:31:59 > 1:32:05they should go, they will go A&E and where they should go for what is
1:32:05 > 1:32:09clear. I think having seen the crisis last year when there was not
1:32:09 > 1:32:17flu or snow or ice to blame, there are underlying problems, structural
1:32:17 > 1:32:24problems. The target was met until 2013 when the health and social care
1:32:24 > 1:32:30act changes kicked in and health and social care was fragmented and based
1:32:30 > 1:32:33on competition instead of co-operation. And while I would
1:32:33 > 1:32:37welcome any kind of cross party group in here so we didn't always
1:32:37 > 1:32:43have these debates, it has to be to actually look at the structure and
1:32:43 > 1:32:47unpicking what has been done to NHS England in the last four and a half
1:32:47 > 1:32:54years. Because going on breaking it apart will not solve the solution.
1:32:54 > 1:33:00Would she agree that the Government's plans to pass through
1:33:00 > 1:33:04organisations which is an exacerbation of this fragments
1:33:04 > 1:33:09through secondly legislation is wrong and will make the NHS crisis
1:33:09 > 1:33:18worse in the future?I agree the idea of accountable care
1:33:18 > 1:33:21organisations through secondary legislation is wrong. What I have
1:33:21 > 1:33:26said is believe that going back to place-based planning is the right
1:33:26 > 1:33:30way to integrate and develop a local service. But it should not have a
1:33:30 > 1:33:34private company at the top of it, who is making the decisions. It need
1:33:34 > 1:33:40to be a publicly accountable body. That structure, as there will be
1:33:40 > 1:33:44another big eorganisation in England, the structure should be
1:33:44 > 1:33:48debated in this place. Not done behind closed doors. Because while
1:33:48 > 1:33:55money is tight and obviously the NHS has had just over 1% per year rises
1:33:55 > 1:34:02in the last seven years, as opposed to 4% in the past, what we see it is
1:34:02 > 1:34:07estimated between five and ten billion is wasted in the health care
1:34:07 > 1:34:14market, the bidding, the tendering and the habit of suing if you don't
1:34:14 > 1:34:18get a contract. It is crucial to move back to developing services for
1:34:18 > 1:34:25a community and that health and social care are integrated and I
1:34:25 > 1:34:30welcome the combination of both titles in the Secretary of State's
1:34:30 > 1:34:36fro if that means we will work to integration. But it must be done in
1:34:36 > 1:34:44a structured, responsible legalistic way.If I could take her to Wales,
1:34:44 > 1:34:49that the Government spent a lot of time attacking the Welsh NHS, in
1:34:49 > 1:34:56terms of the new attitude of not attacking services would he join me
1:34:56 > 1:35:00in condemning David Cameron's saying it was life and death depending on
1:35:00 > 1:35:10which you country you lived in, in Wales we have integrated health and
1:35:10 > 1:35:15social care service. Would she join me in saying in terms of cross party
1:35:15 > 1:35:18working that could happen, particularly if the government were
1:35:18 > 1:35:23willing to engage in the services, raer this than attacking the
1:35:23 > 1:35:28Scottish the Scottish and Welsh Government, we could use this to
1:35:28 > 1:35:32learn good practice.There are four health services and they're
1:35:32 > 1:35:40different and you have four laboratories, while NHS England is
1:35:40 > 1:35:44the largest, they face different and similar challenges. If there was
1:35:44 > 1:35:50more discussions there must be less in learning in different directions.
1:35:50 > 1:35:55We have been promised in 2010 there would be no reorganisation and in
1:35:55 > 1:36:022015, but NHS England is facing another reorganisation. In the STP
1:36:02 > 1:36:09system and accountable care. It is crucial that it is no at is not the
1:36:09 > 1:36:14bottom line. So I think it is wrong that it should be through secondary
1:36:14 > 1:36:18legislation and I think it must be done in this place, whether through
1:36:18 > 1:36:21debate, through committee, through convention, through a royal
1:36:21 > 1:36:24commission to come up with a structure that will function,
1:36:24 > 1:36:29because since 2013 the deficits have gone up, the waiting time failures
1:36:29 > 1:36:33have gone up, the stress on staff has gone up and this makes it harder
1:36:33 > 1:36:38to keep hold of people. Let's put the patient in the middle, but let's
1:36:38 > 1:36:43support the staff that look after the patients.The honourable lady
1:36:43 > 1:36:48has concluded her contribution. We are grateful to her. Can I advise
1:36:48 > 1:36:52the House on account of large number of members interested in
1:36:52 > 1:36:58contributing, there will be a four minute limit on backbench speeches.
1:36:58 > 1:37:08Andrea Jenkins.Thank you. It is good to be back after using the
1:37:08 > 1:37:12nature on maternity leave. I'm proud of our NHS and I'm tired of people
1:37:12 > 1:37:16on the opposition benches talking it down. Our health care system is one
1:37:16 > 1:37:20of the best in the world and while there is more to do, we should
1:37:20 > 1:37:25continue to improve the NHS with excitements for the opportunity
1:37:25 > 1:37:29ahead. We need to be honest about our situation and we have about
1:37:29 > 1:37:34ageing and expanding population and another strong performing health
1:37:34 > 1:37:42care systems around the globe are facing the same pressures. As a
1:37:42 > 1:37:48member of Taiwan APP I saw the health care provision they have, but
1:37:48 > 1:37:52their ministers said their facing the same pressures as we are. It is
1:37:52 > 1:37:57a wonderful thing that we are living longer, a credit to not only the
1:37:57 > 1:38:02advance in medicine, but evidence of the effectiveness of this
1:38:02 > 1:38:12Government's care policy and the performance of the NHS. The
1:38:12 > 1:38:16Government began preparation for winter pressures earlier than before
1:38:16 > 1:38:21and planned to free up 2,000 beds and expanded the flu vaccination
1:38:21 > 1:38:27programme. In my area, the mid Yorkshire hospital trust received an
1:38:27 > 1:38:36extra 3.4 million and the Leeds teaching hospital also. The acute
1:38:36 > 1:38:42care stated, the NHS is better prepared than ever for winter. From
1:38:42 > 1:38:512015 the Government continued to increase investment from 101 billion
1:38:51 > 1:38:57to 120. It is false to say the budget has been cut since 2010. But
1:38:57 > 1:39:04it is not always how money is invested, but how it is used. During
1:39:04 > 1:39:10my University studies I looked at economic and health care policy and
1:39:10 > 1:39:13investment versus health care outcomes. There is a lot of waste in
1:39:13 > 1:39:25the NHS and this Government has a strong record at tackling it.
1:39:25 > 1:39:30Cutting agency staff, and the consolidation of services are only
1:39:30 > 1:39:35some of examples where progress has been made. To not only deliver
1:39:35 > 1:39:39better value for money, for the taxpayer, to deliver results in
1:39:39 > 1:39:47light of our ageing and expanding population. There is still more to
1:39:47 > 1:39:51do and I'm encouraged by the Government's action. And to those of
1:39:51 > 1:39:55my honourable friend the Secretary of State who I would like to take
1:39:55 > 1:40:03this opportunity to congratulate on his additional responsibilities,
1:40:03 > 1:40:07integrating health and social care makes sense and I wish my honourable
1:40:07 > 1:40:12friend much success and I know this is an area he is passionate about.
1:40:12 > 1:40:16GP working days and seven day NHS are only some of the areas where
1:40:16 > 1:40:21work has done and it will ensure that winter preparations get better.
1:40:21 > 1:40:27As the Secretary of State has evidenced, I urge the opposition to
1:40:27 > 1:40:32look at their own record in Wales. During last year, I myself required
1:40:32 > 1:40:37care of the NHS on a number of occasions. During my pregnancy I
1:40:37 > 1:40:40developed a temporary heart condition and I have to say the care
1:40:40 > 1:40:46was excellent. The way that the Government's invested in mental
1:40:46 > 1:40:50health provisions for those who have... Babies is also excellent. So
1:40:50 > 1:40:56it is saved my husband's life when he had stage four cancer. So I would
1:40:56 > 1:41:00like to comment the Government on their work and wish them every
1:41:00 > 1:41:09success in the new roles.
1:41:09 > 1:41:14I want to talk about the situation at my hospital. Year-on-year the
1:41:14 > 1:41:19crisis escalates. Each winter are hospital features lyrically in the
1:41:19 > 1:41:24national press, so often the worst affected, just as, no coincidence,
1:41:24 > 1:41:27it's funding deficit is England's worst. This winter is the first time
1:41:27 > 1:41:32Royal Stowe consultants have taken to social media to apologise for 36
1:41:32 > 1:41:38hour A&E waits a full corridor is jammed with the frail and elderly on
1:41:38 > 1:41:41trolleys yet again and for what they now describe as third World
1:41:41 > 1:41:44conditions. Mr Speaker, the background to all this is all the
1:41:44 > 1:41:49areas subject to sustainability and transformation plans,
1:41:49 > 1:41:53Staffordshire's STP is the worst performing of the country. Before
1:41:53 > 1:41:58the 2015 general election locally we exposed a funding deficit prior to
1:41:58 > 1:42:03the STP that would have reached £250 million a year by 2020, since then
1:42:03 > 1:42:08the issues have been exactly the same but the figures are double for
1:42:08 > 1:42:11help and social care and the Royal Stowe accounts for over 100 million
1:42:11 > 1:42:15of that having taken of the crisis ridden Stafford Hospital which extra
1:42:15 > 1:42:19government funding has now stopped. The response so far has not been to
1:42:19 > 1:42:23invest for change but launch a scorched earth policy, community
1:42:23 > 1:42:29hospitals being closed, wards shut, drug and alcohol services axed and
1:42:29 > 1:42:31lip service paid to the prioritisation of mental health. And
1:42:31 > 1:42:37where Mrs big is the effect most acutely felt? At A&E and admissions
1:42:37 > 1:42:40at Royal Stowe Community Hospital, already brim full to capacity,
1:42:40 > 1:42:45struggling to discharge patients because social services are also in
1:42:45 > 1:42:48social crisis. Mr Speaker, on 23rd of November I attended a CCG
1:42:48 > 1:42:55consultation, designing your local future health services at Bramall
1:42:55 > 1:42:58hospital at Newcastle-under-Lyme, a hospital close to my heart. At the
1:42:58 > 1:43:02turn of the millennium before I became MP I check my local NHS care
1:43:02 > 1:43:05for all campaign which save the hospital as a facility precisely to
1:43:05 > 1:43:11take pressure off. My father passed away there in 1997 and my mother a
1:43:11 > 1:43:16former nurse, after a catastrophic stroke three years ago. At the end
1:43:16 > 1:43:22of March last year our local CCG closed Bramall hospital along with
1:43:22 > 1:43:28Cheadle community hospitals and moorlands hospital since. Madam
1:43:28 > 1:43:32Deputy Speaker, I was not the only person at that November meeting to
1:43:32 > 1:43:37label the consultation as a sham. I also said I wished those meetings
1:43:37 > 1:43:40could have happened at the end of February this year instead after the
1:43:40 > 1:43:44winter crisis, the flu, the norovirus had bitten as they are
1:43:44 > 1:43:51doing now. The CCGs tried to pull the plug on Bradwell in the autumn
1:43:51 > 1:43:55of 2016 but had to keep it open another six months to cope with the
1:43:55 > 1:43:59winter crisis last year. As late as November they were saying that there
1:43:59 > 1:44:04were no plans to reopen it but in December and inevitable vault Fass
1:44:04 > 1:44:09happened. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is no way to run and plan a health
1:44:09 > 1:44:12service, lurching from crisis to crisis and is not just MPs and local
1:44:12 > 1:44:17campaigners, patients and their families are the same. Last year
1:44:17 > 1:44:19working with local councillors, Charlotte Atkins in Staffordshire
1:44:19 > 1:44:26County, the indefatigable Joan Bell in the Stoke who reformed local
1:44:26 > 1:44:31care, chaired by the counsellor from Newcastle succeeded in getting our
1:44:31 > 1:44:35closures referred to the Secretary of State. Before Christmas the
1:44:35 > 1:44:37Independent reconfiguration panel gave their advice and that was
1:44:37 > 1:44:42damning against the CCGs. That verdict was given Madam Deputy
1:44:42 > 1:44:47Speaker on the 18th of October, well before the winter crisis. We thought
1:44:47 > 1:44:53he would have reacted, but one week later the chief executive of our two
1:44:53 > 1:44:58local CCGs was appointed to run or six in Staffordshire. That is the
1:44:58 > 1:45:01reward for failing in our area. Things have to change, the Royal
1:45:01 > 1:45:05Stoke University Hospital must be given more investment, we have to
1:45:05 > 1:45:09not something have more cuts, otherwise next winter's crisis will
1:45:09 > 1:45:17be even worse.Dame Caroline Spelman.Thank you, Madam Deputy
1:45:17 > 1:45:20Speaker. Unfortunately I had to rush a family member to hospital last
1:45:20 > 1:45:25Saturday afternoon at just the time when my local GP surgery is no
1:45:25 > 1:45:28longer open, so it gave me a first-hand chance to see how the
1:45:28 > 1:45:31winter pressures are being dealt with. I have good news to share with
1:45:31 > 1:45:37the House. My local GPs came together this year and agreed to run
1:45:37 > 1:45:42an urgent care centre at the hospital with a doctor on duty 24/7.
1:45:42 > 1:45:45On arrival we saw the noticed in reception that the average waiting
1:45:45 > 1:45:50time was three and a half hours, so I settled down to see how it was all
1:45:50 > 1:45:53going to work. The absolute key to the smooth running of this front
1:45:53 > 1:45:57line in health care was the triage, Connery and efficiently a doctor and
1:45:57 > 1:46:01nurse quickly assessed who needed to be seen by whom and where. You could
1:46:01 > 1:46:07either just turn up, or you could ring 111. The honourable member for
1:46:07 > 1:46:10Central Ayrshire is right, it needs to be simple, just that simple,
1:46:10 > 1:46:16otherwise people will go to A&E. Sensibly Georgian and frail elderly
1:46:16 > 1:46:19patients were seen quickly, so in fact we were in and out of the
1:46:19 > 1:46:23hospital in an hour and a half -- children and frail elderly patients.
1:46:23 > 1:46:27And even directed to a pharmacy open late at night by a forkful GP. I
1:46:27 > 1:46:33want to place on the record my thanks to the staff at Solihull
1:46:33 > 1:46:38Hospital -- thoughtful GP. And for the foresight of a CCG for
1:46:38 > 1:46:42conceiving how to provide emergency cover better, and I commend this
1:46:42 > 1:46:46model to the House. Today's motion states that the government has,
1:46:46 > 1:46:51"Failed to allocate adequate resources to the NHS." The fact is
1:46:51 > 1:46:58investment in the NHS will increase from 0.1 billion in 2015 to 120
1:46:58 > 1:47:01billion in 2020, two billion more than the NHS asked for in its own
1:47:01 > 1:47:06plan for the future. The question of how much money is needed is just as
1:47:06 > 1:47:11important as how it is spent. It is right to remember that we are not
1:47:11 > 1:47:15the only country with an ageing society facing these kind of
1:47:15 > 1:47:18challenges, and in fact, it's not just that we spend more than the
1:47:18 > 1:47:22average of the EU, but new research shows that in fact more than the
1:47:22 > 1:47:28average for OECD countries on health care. For all my 20 years as an MP
1:47:28 > 1:47:33Labour have claimed that every election that the Conservatives will
1:47:33 > 1:47:38privatise the NHS and we haven't. It is dishonest and it misleads the
1:47:38 > 1:47:42public. Worrying them unduly, and it distorts the view of young people
1:47:42 > 1:47:46who don't yet have the years of experience of Conservatives
1:47:46 > 1:47:49consistently putting more money into health care, so I'm glad the Prime
1:47:49 > 1:47:54Minister has given the Secretary of State additional responsibility for
1:47:54 > 1:47:57social care, because every grown-up politician in this House knows that
1:47:57 > 1:48:01you can't solve the problems of the NHS without also working out how to
1:48:01 > 1:48:07get people out of hospital in a timely fashion and properly
1:48:07 > 1:48:10supported in the community. Our attempts to tackle that funding
1:48:10 > 1:48:14issue were discredited at the general election when our policy was
1:48:14 > 1:48:18caricatured as a dementia tax, and what that shows is no party will
1:48:18 > 1:48:26crack this on its own without the cross-party determination to do so.
1:48:26 > 1:48:30I challenge the party opposite to give up on the vote harvesting
1:48:30 > 1:48:34approach to the NHS and support a Royal commission on health and
1:48:34 > 1:48:43social care for the sake of everyone who needs it.Imran Hussein.Thank
1:48:43 > 1:48:46you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I know time is short and many honourable
1:48:46 > 1:48:49member is want to take part in this debate so I will go straight to the
1:48:49 > 1:48:55points. Madam Deputy Speaker, there is no doubt that this recent winter
1:48:55 > 1:48:58crisis is as a result of the Government's chronic underfunding of
1:48:58 > 1:49:04our health service. I know it, honourable member is on the side of
1:49:04 > 1:49:07the House know it, and most important, Madam Deputy Speaker, the
1:49:07 > 1:49:12public know it. Even the government know that the crisis is down to the
1:49:12 > 1:49:17underfunding that has taken place whilst they have been in power, so
1:49:17 > 1:49:23we may ask if they know that it is down to the underfunding, why are
1:49:23 > 1:49:28they doing nothing serious about it? The answer is very similar to what
1:49:28 > 1:49:31they are doing with local government funding. They are doing nothing
1:49:31 > 1:49:37about it because all they want to do is push their ideological agenda of
1:49:37 > 1:49:41privatisation. They know that hospitals will still provide
1:49:41 > 1:49:45services, and under the Health and Social Care Act they are forced to
1:49:45 > 1:49:50put many contracts out to tender, so they know that eventually, willing
1:49:50 > 1:49:54or not, as bottles to turn to private companies who can offer to
1:49:54 > 1:49:58provide those services at cut rate prices to the NHS, just one example
1:49:58 > 1:50:01of this back door privatisation is taking place currently in hospitals
1:50:01 > 1:50:08serving my constituents, with Bradford NHS Trust forced by
1:50:08 > 1:50:10government budget restraints into planning to set up a private
1:50:10 > 1:50:16company. A private company to provide services that are vital to
1:50:16 > 1:50:22the people of Bradford. A private company that will actively seek to
1:50:22 > 1:50:29make a profit. Now, just let that sink in for a moment. Hospitals
1:50:29 > 1:50:33setting up private companies with the intention to make a profit for
1:50:33 > 1:50:39the hospital. That is how bad it has become, with hospitals needing to
1:50:39 > 1:50:45supplement their funding through whatever means possible. It is just
1:50:45 > 1:50:49a slippery slope from here towards ever-increasing privatisation and
1:50:49 > 1:50:55private company involvement in the NHS. Hospital trusts are services,
1:50:55 > 1:50:59but this government is turning them into businesses. But the
1:50:59 > 1:51:03privatisation will not save the NHS from the ruin that the government
1:51:03 > 1:51:07has eagerly forced upon it, and the only way that private companies will
1:51:07 > 1:51:11be able to offer cut rate prices is by cutting employment rights of
1:51:11 > 1:51:17staff and cutting corners. Madam Deputy Speaker, this will not
1:51:17 > 1:51:22prevent another winter crisis. It will only encourage one with private
1:51:22 > 1:51:28companies putting safety in health services at risk. I am concerned
1:51:28 > 1:51:32that the private company being established in Bradford will put
1:51:32 > 1:51:35safety at risk by lowering their rigorous hygiene standards that are
1:51:35 > 1:51:41in place by cutting cleaners and slashing their hours. Health care
1:51:41 > 1:51:44services should be provided by the best operator, which in almost all
1:51:44 > 1:51:51cases is the NHS themselves, not the lowest bidder. So the government
1:51:51 > 1:51:54need to recognise that the public will not thank them for privatising
1:51:54 > 1:51:59the NHS, because privatisation will not solve the crisis in our NHS,
1:51:59 > 1:52:04only proper funding at the level the NHS themselves have said they need
1:52:04 > 1:52:09will do that. But it has to be asked whether the government want to be
1:52:09 > 1:52:15thanked by the public, whether their plans for the NHS are in the best
1:52:15 > 1:52:19interests of the public, or whether they want to be thanked by big
1:52:19 > 1:52:25business and whether their plans are in the best interest of big
1:52:25 > 1:52:28business, as it is clear to me from this crisis which one it actually
1:52:28 > 1:52:36is.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, pleasure to follow the honourable
1:52:36 > 1:52:40member for Bradford East. I would start by saying that it is
1:52:40 > 1:52:44depressing to hear the opposition laying into the NHS, who are an
1:52:44 > 1:52:48extraordinary group of people, real people working day in and day out to
1:52:48 > 1:52:52look after all our constituents when their health needs support and
1:52:52 > 1:52:56mending and I would commend all the staff across Northumberland's health
1:52:56 > 1:53:00care family who have worked so hard, not only over the last few weeks but
1:53:00 > 1:53:04365 days a year to look after all of my constituents. The reality is that
1:53:04 > 1:53:09much can be achieved to present a winter health crisis as it's known,
1:53:09 > 1:53:13but those impacts winter brings through really good planning. I have
1:53:13 > 1:53:15an unfair advantage in Northumberland, Northumbria health
1:53:15 > 1:53:19ketchup has been led and built to what it is now through the great
1:53:19 > 1:53:24auspices of Jim Mackie who will lead to NHS improvement for a couple of
1:53:24 > 1:53:27years to bring those skills across the whole NHS and it is lovely for
1:53:27 > 1:53:33us to have him back, so I thank ministers for sending him back to
1:53:33 > 1:53:36Northumberland. The reality is that as a result of what has been 15
1:53:36 > 1:53:40years of really intelligent senior leadership planning. We have had no
1:53:40 > 1:53:42blanket cancellations in Northumberland and we have an
1:53:42 > 1:53:46unchanged scheduled except for any critical specific cases that may
1:53:46 > 1:53:51come up. There are no clinical time sensitive operations being cancelled
1:53:51 > 1:53:56and most are carrying on as normal. In November the trust decided to
1:53:56 > 1:54:00transfer a surgical ward to general medicine to ensure there was greater
1:54:00 > 1:54:03capacity, thinking ahead for the irregular changes that the winter
1:54:03 > 1:54:08weather tends to bring. We also have was no delay of transfer of care in
1:54:08 > 1:54:12Northumberland thanks to the really sophisticated planning set in motion
1:54:12 > 1:54:16by Jim Mackie and his team some years ago working with
1:54:16 > 1:54:18Northumberland county council directly, so that our social care
1:54:18 > 1:54:24and health care works hand in glove. It works, we are doing it in
1:54:24 > 1:54:28Northumberland, and I urge every MP to encourage their councils to build
1:54:28 > 1:54:31that relationship, because it genuinely works. I will also
1:54:31 > 1:54:34continue to encourage the government to make sure our accountable care
1:54:34 > 1:54:37organisation is one of the first to be signed and sealed, because when
1:54:37 > 1:54:42we have that in place that holistic health care family will actually
1:54:42 > 1:54:47work for patients. Flu hit the North East first but we are functioning
1:54:47 > 1:54:52and coping well. Our statistics are good with bed occupancy at 91% and
1:54:52 > 1:54:56A&E waiting times at 95% yesterday. Our nursing vacancies are at an
1:54:56 > 1:55:01historic low of only 1%, again thanks to planning, looking
1:55:01 > 1:55:03forwards, positive recruitment campaign and specific staff group
1:55:03 > 1:55:08areas where we knew there would be shortages, and as a result our
1:55:08 > 1:55:12nursing agency usage is very low in Northumberland. I continue to raise,
1:55:12 > 1:55:16though, because nothing is ever perfect, the thorny local issue of
1:55:16 > 1:55:18community hospitals and our bed provision, which at the moment is
1:55:18 > 1:55:21lower than it should be, because that will help to relieve pressures
1:55:21 > 1:55:24for those delayed transfers of care where we can make sure those who
1:55:24 > 1:55:27have a level of vulnerability and cannot necessarily go home, or
1:55:27 > 1:55:31should not go straight home from the Acute Hospital environment can do so
1:55:31 > 1:55:34with the support that community nurses across a rural patch cannot
1:55:34 > 1:55:40give in practical terms in the way you perhaps can in another
1:55:40 > 1:55:42environment, community nurses cannot get to as many places in a date when
1:55:42 > 1:55:46you have miles and miles to travel between patients. That is a critical
1:55:46 > 1:55:52part of wired that must be part of the new bigger social care model,
1:55:52 > 1:55:55the social community framework. I want to thank both the Prime
1:55:55 > 1:55:59Minister and Secretary of State for bringing the two together because
1:55:59 > 1:56:02health and social care together in one place will actually start to do
1:56:02 > 1:56:05what we see in Northumberland already and I would like to hear
1:56:05 > 1:56:08every MP able to tell the same positive story in the months and
1:56:08 > 1:56:11years ahead.
1:56:11 > 1:56:16Thank you. Here we are again, discussing the latest winter crisis
1:56:16 > 1:56:24in our NHS. Last year I stood here and spoke of the horror stories I
1:56:24 > 1:56:28had heard, staff working their fingers to the bone doing the jobs
1:56:28 > 1:56:33of three or four people, without food, break or time to go to the
1:56:33 > 1:56:37toilet. Here we are again with many of the same challenges and none of
1:56:37 > 1:56:41the fixes that were promised by this government. First let me join with
1:56:41 > 1:56:47my colleagues and say a huge thank you to each and every one of our
1:56:47 > 1:56:57hard working NHS staff, doctors, nurses, receptionists and porters,
1:56:57 > 1:57:03thank you from the bottom of my heart. A special thank you to the
1:57:03 > 1:57:08paramedics who rushed my dear dad into hospital on 28th December. Last
1:57:08 > 1:57:12year the government said the winter pressure was down to more patients
1:57:12 > 1:57:16being seen, this figure is rising and why is sufficient resources not
1:57:16 > 1:57:22put in place to deal with this? The health Secretary stated that there
1:57:22 > 1:57:27are more doctors and nurses than there were seven years ago. I would
1:57:27 > 1:57:38like to point out to him in my area one of which, one of trusts has 230
1:57:38 > 1:57:48nursing vacancies, compared to 110 last year. This is a different
1:57:48 > 1:57:51picture than that painted by the Secretary of State. Where he used
1:57:51 > 1:57:55figures that the House of Commons library say should be used with
1:57:55 > 1:57:59caution as changes in the number of staff can sometimes reflect
1:57:59 > 1:58:05organisal changes and changes in the structure of services rather than
1:58:05 > 1:58:09genuine changes in staffing levels. Staffing levels are so low at the
1:58:09 > 1:58:18hospital trust that the CQC has deemed them to be a risk to public
1:58:18 > 1:58:25safety. I was critici last year for asking for more money. Perhaps they
1:58:25 > 1:58:31can tell us what the solution is. We need more nurses. But more money is
1:58:31 > 1:58:37needed to pay for nurses. The same with doctors. There seems to be less
1:58:37 > 1:58:42bed blocking and more needed in social care and when more is given
1:58:42 > 1:58:47to pay for Brexit than our NHS, I feel it is right that those
1:58:47 > 1:58:58questions are asked here. The real I is ity is that NHS deficits are
1:58:58 > 1:59:01rising and balancing the books become bg impossible. The 350
1:59:01 > 1:59:08million made available at the Budget was no more Nan a than a drop in the
1:59:08 > 1:59:15-- than a drop in the ocean. What of the cost of cancelled operations to
1:59:15 > 1:59:25trusts and to the spasht sms he - patients. I know of one man waiting
1:59:25 > 1:59:32for an operation to close his skull after brain surgery this year. The
1:59:32 > 1:59:38surgery isn't classed as urgent, but it is completed he is at risk of
1:59:38 > 1:59:43death should he bang his head accidentally. So he rarely leaves
1:59:43 > 1:59:51the house. Another person is wait ing for a new knee and he has been
1:59:51 > 1:59:56on sick leave for three months and is suffering severe financial
1:59:56 > 2:00:01hardship. As well as the cost of cancelled operations, I have heard
2:00:01 > 2:00:06stories of six patients squeezed into four bed bays with no curtains
2:00:06 > 2:00:10and no dignity, no lockers and no bells. They're being given hand
2:00:10 > 2:00:14bells or told to ask the patient next to them to ring the bell.
2:00:14 > 2:00:20Patients have been placed in store cupboards and what has been become a
2:00:20 > 2:00:28norm at this time of year...Thank you. I would like to start like many
2:00:28 > 2:00:36by paying tribute to the primary care staff, the GPs, the nurses and
2:00:36 > 2:00:42the receptionists, and those working in acute trusts in hospitals, mental
2:00:42 > 2:00:46health staff and the volunteer who we owe so much to as well. They are
2:00:46 > 2:00:53a team and any part of the NHS is weaker if one part is weaker, which
2:00:53 > 2:00:58is why I welcome the change in the Secretary of State's tiet that will
2:00:58 > 2:01:07we have a Department of Health and social care. A long over due move.
2:01:07 > 2:01:12Looking at my own hospital foundation trust, the increase in
2:01:12 > 2:01:18activity in recent years has been phenomenal, 83,000 more people seen
2:01:18 > 2:01:34under four hours in 2016, compared to 2009 and 2010. I pay tribute to
2:01:34 > 2:01:45the enormous amount of work, there are 166 more doctors since 2010. All
2:01:45 > 2:01:50of which was welcome as the extra winter pressure money. I spoke to
2:01:50 > 2:01:54the director of operations this morning, she told me it with Tuz
2:01:54 > 2:01:59busiest new year we have seen in a long time and that it had started to
2:01:59 > 2:02:04two days before new year and gone on up to this weekend. But things have
2:02:04 > 2:02:11returned to a more normal basis and while they do still have a number
2:02:11 > 2:02:15contingency beds open, it is nothing like it was over the new year and I
2:02:15 > 2:02:19pay tribute to the way they coped with very difficult circumstances. I
2:02:19 > 2:02:29received a letter on Monday from the east of England ambulance trust
2:02:29 > 2:02:37saying on an average day they... I have to say I would defy any
2:02:37 > 2:02:42ambulance trust to be able to cope with that adequately with that
2:02:42 > 2:02:47significantly increased number of calls and indeed I understand on the
2:02:47 > 2:02:52days before and after they were also the number of calls was topping
2:02:52 > 2:02:594,000 a day when the average is 3,000. I think our constituents want
2:02:59 > 2:03:04us to tell it as it is and I had an e-mail from a practice manager in
2:03:04 > 2:03:09one of my surgeries saying that on 4th January there was a a six-hour
2:03:09 > 2:03:15wait for a blue light ambulance. As the Prime Minister apologised, I
2:03:15 > 2:03:20would want to say absolutely as a MP, I'm not satisfied with that and
2:03:20 > 2:03:28we have to try to do better, not withstanding the efforts made. Now,
2:03:28 > 2:03:36we have committed to train 25% more doctors, 25% more nurses and I
2:03:36 > 2:03:43welcome the new nursing associating and aprep is the ships. Prep is the
2:03:43 > 2:03:47-- apprenticeships. Let me suggest six areas that we can make progress
2:03:47 > 2:03:55in. First, it is unacceptable that 10% of NHS England's budget goes on
2:03:55 > 2:04:01type 2 diabetes, process on obesity is vital. More process on the
2:04:01 > 2:04:04getting it right first time scheme that is saving billions will help as
2:04:04 > 2:04:10well. I would like to make a further plea to the treasury to make sure
2:04:10 > 2:04:16that we stop GPs leaving, those on the old pension scheme are...
2:04:16 > 2:04:20Disfavoured by the tax treatment and we have to drive through the
2:04:20 > 2:04:29sustainability and transformation part nerships s to integrate health
2:04:29 > 2:04:32and social care.Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak.
2:04:32 > 2:04:40I have worked in the NHS since 96 as a doctor, as in hospitals, as a GP
2:04:40 > 2:04:45and a commissioner of services. It feels like we are going back to the
2:04:45 > 2:04:55nineties at the moment with long waiting times, even before this
2:04:55 > 2:04:59decision to suspend operations, we were breaching targets and it feels
2:04:59 > 2:05:04from a patient point of view as though the standards particularly in
2:05:04 > 2:05:08my constituency, the difficulty in accessing an plans when somebody
2:05:08 > 2:05:12needs one are deteriorating. I would like to share two insights into the
2:05:12 > 2:05:17problem and two solutions. My first insight is whatever ministers say,
2:05:17 > 2:05:26some of this is about the money. We have seen a slow level of growth and
2:05:26 > 2:05:31we have seen cuts to, as we have heard, to social care funding and
2:05:31 > 2:05:37cuts to public health budgets and a long-standing underinvestment, isle
2:05:37 > 2:05:49understand that is being reversed now, but an underinvestment. It I
2:05:49 > 2:05:52difficult to spend that money when you get it at the last minute, you
2:05:52 > 2:05:58have to get people to come in to do to work. And I think if the money
2:05:58 > 2:06:03had come earlier it would, we could have put in better contingencies. As
2:06:03 > 2:06:10well as being about money, it is about the wrong strategy. There has
2:06:10 > 2:06:14been planning for reactive services, but we have been cutting prevention.
2:06:14 > 2:06:18We have been doing planning for health care services but not enough
2:06:18 > 2:06:23planning for social care services and we have been planning by giving
2:06:23 > 2:06:30this emergency injection of cash into acute hospital services and
2:06:30 > 2:06:34cutting prioritising and fragmenting community service and we have seen
2:06:34 > 2:06:385,000 less community nurses since 2010 and a 45% reduction in district
2:06:38 > 2:06:46nurses. What I suggest, we need to change the strategy and see a
2:06:46 > 2:06:50strategy that focuses, we can't just respond by providing more and more
2:06:50 > 2:06:55acute hospital beds, we have to focus on prevention, on good quality
2:06:55 > 2:07:02community services and nursing and social care and better palliative
2:07:02 > 2:07:06care, more emphasis on screening. We need to focus on poverty reduction
2:07:06 > 2:07:10and deprivation. People living in poverty are less likely to access
2:07:10 > 2:07:18prevention and more likely to be acutely admitted to hospital. I
2:07:18 > 2:07:21include people with mental health problems in that. While integration
2:07:21 > 2:07:25is the right direction of travel, we have to change some things about the
2:07:25 > 2:07:32way it is achieved. Calling these organisations accountable care
2:07:32 > 2:07:35organisationings lends people to think it is an idea from the United
2:07:35 > 2:07:41States. Maybe public health boards, something that puts the needs of
2:07:41 > 2:07:45populations at the centre of health care and planning and also the
2:07:45 > 2:07:49leadership of the organisations, we need to make sure they are focussed
2:07:49 > 2:07:52on out of hospital care, not just providing more and more acute
2:07:52 > 2:07:58hospital services. There is a fundamental contradiction while we
2:07:58 > 2:08:06have section 75 of the health and social care act that mandates
2:08:06 > 2:08:10competition, that is a contradiction. Huge praise must go
2:08:10 > 2:08:15to the staff, I have done shifts myself over the short recess. Huge
2:08:15 > 2:08:22praise to the staff with the right invest and proper collaboration we
2:08:22 > 2:08:31can do better.It is a pleasure to follow the honourable gentleman who
2:08:31 > 2:08:37qualified in 96. I think I have ten years on him. I can't a remember a
2:08:37 > 2:08:40winter where there was not talk of pressure and we have to understand
2:08:40 > 2:08:46this is no at new phenomenon. I remember the bad winter of 2009 and
2:08:46 > 2:08:51actually to be fair the very positive way in which the then
2:08:51 > 2:08:58opposition approached this and helped the Government at the time in
2:08:58 > 2:09:03the interests of not politicising this. I think we need to give due
2:09:03 > 2:09:07credit to managers within the NHS who come up with flak, but this has
2:09:07 > 2:09:11been a managed process this year and take an great deal of input to make
2:09:11 > 2:09:15sure we do the best we can to disadvantage patients the least. I
2:09:15 > 2:09:20would like to pay tribute to that much-maligned group. The only way I
2:09:20 > 2:09:26can see we can make this better is running a lower bed occupancy rate.
2:09:26 > 2:09:32That is OK but it has opportunity costs on it. The reality of doing
2:09:32 > 2:09:36such a thing which would avoid the cancellations we have seen this
2:09:36 > 2:09:42winter as in any winter, are quite severe. I don't think many members
2:09:42 > 2:09:49would wish to see those things. That brings me on to the common wealth
2:09:49 > 2:09:59fund that was quote ed by the Prime Minister. All the points they look
2:09:59 > 2:10:07at do well with the NHS. But the problem is the last one. And that is
2:10:07 > 2:10:11clinical outcomes where we run ten out of eleven and eleven being the
2:10:11 > 2:10:16United States. We do not do well with clinical outcomes. We don't do
2:10:16 > 2:10:20well with cancer or stroke or heart attack and we need to do something
2:10:20 > 2:10:27about it. And it is no good citing OECD averages, we need to be
2:10:27 > 2:10:31comparing ourselves with Denmark and Germany and France and the
2:10:31 > 2:10:36Netherlands, not with the basket of country including with the EOCD.
2:10:36 > 2:10:41That leads us to a debate about resources and having talked of
2:10:41 > 2:10:47management, we do need to address resources for the long-term. I
2:10:47 > 2:10:51support those who wish to see planning on a ten year basis. Vital
2:10:51 > 2:10:56to do so and to ensure we have the funding in place for that for the
2:10:56 > 2:11:03improvements with need to get the outcomes up to the level enjoyed by
2:11:03 > 2:11:09our peer group nations in western Europe and not the basket we are
2:11:09 > 2:11:13often compared W we have to take the public us with. And we have to do
2:11:13 > 2:11:17this cross party. None of the decisions that will be made about
2:11:17 > 2:11:22the future of our NHS in is in, the 70 anniversary year are necessarily
2:11:22 > 2:11:28going to be easy and it is important we do try to get some level of cross
2:11:28 > 2:11:34party consensus. The way we do that is to by establishing a body that is
2:11:34 > 2:11:40above politics and that is where I'm drawn to, by establishing a royal
2:11:40 > 2:11:44commission and with all the problems and we remember the other committee
2:11:44 > 2:11:4840 years ago that debated matters to do with the health service which
2:11:48 > 2:12:01came up for a lot of
2:12:01 > 2:12:04Such a body would be effective and it seems the right and proper way to
2:12:04 > 2:12:07deal with the future, particularly a sustainable funding future of our
2:12:07 > 2:12:12most treasured national institutions and I hope very much that the front
2:12:12 > 2:12:18bench will listen to those of us across the party and particularly
2:12:18 > 2:12:21this week the CPS recommendation that we should have a Royal
2:12:21 > 2:12:25commission set up in this 70th anniversary year to consider the
2:12:25 > 2:12:32future of our National Health Service.Eleanor Smith.
2:12:32 > 2:12:34Thank you, Deputy Speaker, and thank you to my Right Honourable friend
2:12:34 > 2:12:41who has just spoken. As a nurse who has worked in the NHS for 40 years I
2:12:41 > 2:12:45know too well the effects of the winter crisis. Yes, winter is the
2:12:45 > 2:12:51time that the NHS bases pressures, but the government have claimed they
2:12:51 > 2:12:55were better prepared for this winter crisis with their national medical
2:12:55 > 2:13:03director explaining that they had been preparing since last winter.
2:13:03 > 2:13:08However, can this be true when the government has announced they would
2:13:08 > 2:13:18postpone nonurgent operation, not only putting patients' physical and
2:13:18 > 2:13:22mental health at risk but in also creating a backlog of operation
2:13:22 > 2:13:29which NHS staff will still have to catch up on. Unison spoke out on the
2:13:29 > 2:13:34handling of the NHS, only in February last year. They also
2:13:34 > 2:13:37highlighted the Government's promise in their manifesto to properly fund
2:13:37 > 2:13:45the NHS. A 2070 manifesto the government pledged to give the NHS
2:13:45 > 2:13:49the resources it needed. -- 2017 manifesto. In the Autumn Statement
2:13:49 > 2:13:54they also pledged the NHS would receive an additional 377 million to
2:13:54 > 2:13:59ease the winter pressure. But what they failed to disclose is that
2:13:59 > 2:14:04although they provide funding, they are also undercutting by asking the
2:14:04 > 2:14:10NHS to make savings in some of their areas. The funding they have
2:14:10 > 2:14:16provided to ease the winter pressures, where has it gone? Royal
2:14:16 > 2:14:21Wolverhampton NHS Trust, which provides services to the hospitals
2:14:21 > 2:14:25in Wolverhampton cares for patients from my constituency. They've been
2:14:25 > 2:14:30working under increasing pressure for over half the days between the
2:14:30 > 2:14:3820th of November 31 of December in 2017. At Wolverhampton trust it has
2:14:38 > 2:14:45been over 90% of bed occupancy. Also one in six ambulance handovers were
2:14:45 > 2:14:49delayed for more than 30 minutes over the same period force of this
2:14:49 > 2:14:52would not be happening if the government claims the NHS is
2:14:52 > 2:14:58well-prepared. There has been a widespread outrage following the
2:14:58 > 2:15:02winter crisis, however, NHS staff have been highlighting the pressures
2:15:02 > 2:15:08on the NHS throughout the year and for many years. We have campaigned,
2:15:08 > 2:15:11met the Minister, written articles and help protests about the
2:15:11 > 2:15:14Government's treatment of the NHS, and the underfunding over the last
2:15:14 > 2:15:20seven years. When will this government face the facts that the
2:15:20 > 2:15:28funding they have provided is simply not enough?John Howell.Thank you,
2:15:28 > 2:15:33Madam Deputy Speaker. What I don't want to do is go through the list of
2:15:33 > 2:15:36the increase in numbers of operations that have been held by
2:15:36 > 2:15:47the NHS, or the enormous Russia on people wanting to be seen by the
2:15:47 > 2:15:51NHS. -- enormous pressure. I went to focus on the delayed discharges of
2:15:51 > 2:15:57care. That is a very important factor for increasing the throughput
2:15:57 > 2:16:02of people through the health system and it's also very important factor
2:16:02 > 2:16:09in ensuring people don't go into hospital in the first place. Derek
2:16:09 > 2:16:14two ways in which you have done this in Oxfordshire apart from future
2:16:14 > 2:16:20planning for the NHS. The first thing is in relation to the hospital
2:16:20 > 2:16:26in the town of Hendley where I have been amongst those that have been
2:16:26 > 2:16:34active in trying to ensure that the balance is right with social care.
2:16:34 > 2:16:38-- Henley. The way we have done that is to ensure that the hospital has
2:16:38 > 2:16:42no beds in hospital. It has beds in the neighbouring care home for those
2:16:42 > 2:16:47people that urgently need to stay, but the emphasis is all on
2:16:47 > 2:16:52ambulatory care for which I have worked very closely with the Royal
2:16:52 > 2:16:54College of Physicians. Ambulatory care is the treatment of patients in
2:16:54 > 2:17:00their own homes, and more and more patients now understand that they
2:17:00 > 2:17:03can get the right sort of treatment in their own homes and they don't
2:17:03 > 2:17:09have to spend time in hospital. This has been taken on the best of
2:17:09 > 2:17:15medical advice and I'm very grateful for the doctors that have come
2:17:15 > 2:17:20forward to support that whole approach. I do invite one of the
2:17:20 > 2:17:25ministers to come and see the hospital and how it works for
2:17:25 > 2:17:30themselves. The second thing that I would like to stress is the work
2:17:30 > 2:17:36that we do cross-party within the county with all the MPs that are
2:17:36 > 2:17:43represented in the county. I chair the group of us that have a
2:17:43 > 2:17:47relationship with the Clinical Commissioning Group. Not so much to
2:17:47 > 2:17:50hold them to account, but to make sure that they are focused on the
2:17:50 > 2:17:56things that they say they are going to be focused on. One of those great
2:17:56 > 2:18:03focuses that it has achieved is its focus on delayed discharges of care.
2:18:03 > 2:18:08If I just go through a couple of the figures, you can see the enormous
2:18:08 > 2:18:13achievement they have made over the course of the past year in planning
2:18:13 > 2:18:20for the better treatment of delayed discharges of care. At the end of
2:18:20 > 2:18:25December the number of Oxfordshire patients who would fall into the
2:18:25 > 2:18:35delayed discharges of care at 96. In May last year that number was 181.
2:18:35 > 2:18:39That is a magnificent achievement, it's almost half the delayed
2:18:39 > 2:18:44discharges of care, so when ministers hear the figure of half,
2:18:44 > 2:18:49it's not half increase, it's half decrease in the number of people
2:18:49 > 2:18:53that are up for delayed charges of care. This has been done by making
2:18:53 > 2:18:57sure that the right resources are there for patients who need them to
2:18:57 > 2:19:01return home, and not due to people going home without the support that
2:19:01 > 2:19:09they need. And finally, let me just comment on The Times newspaper story
2:19:09 > 2:19:12about the Churchill Hospital this morning. I have a statement from the
2:19:12 > 2:19:19Churchill Hospital which says that it has not implement any changes to
2:19:19 > 2:19:25cancer treatment whatsoever, and I'm very happy to put this letter in the
2:19:25 > 2:19:32library for the future for members to read.Mike Hill.Thank you, Madam
2:19:32 > 2:19:36Deputy Speaker, a pleasure to follow on from my very thorough and Leonard
2:19:36 > 2:19:39friends. On Monday I asked the ministers of state what the
2:19:39 > 2:19:42government were doing over the crisis in the Ambulance Service --
2:19:42 > 2:19:47learned friends. His was dumber response was the new ambulance
2:19:47 > 2:19:50response programme has been introduced to deal with category one
2:19:50 > 2:19:54cause more rapidly. The reality is that two months after the so-called
2:19:54 > 2:19:58improvements were put in place in the north-east, an elderly
2:19:58 > 2:20:01constituent of mine waited 14 hours for an ambulance having collapsed in
2:20:01 > 2:20:08his own home on New Year's Day. Last week in the ICU of North Tees
2:20:08 > 2:20:11Hospital Stockton, two people die from influenza on the same day, one
2:20:11 > 2:20:18of them again was a constituent of mine. On New Year's Eve I attended
2:20:18 > 2:20:21urgent care at Hartlepool hospital and in the emulator E K unit in
2:20:21 > 2:20:26Stockton with my son the car park was full, the sick were presenting
2:20:26 > 2:20:32thick and fast and the ambulances were once again backed up. When will
2:20:32 > 2:20:35the government admit that this is not a winter crisis, it is a crisis
2:20:35 > 2:20:42in our NHS. Macro. And a crisis of their own making?
2:20:43 > 2:20:48Damien Moore. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I'm
2:20:48 > 2:20:52pleased to be able to contribute to this debate today. Although the
2:20:52 > 2:20:59opposition, has, as expected, used this to weaponise our NHS I want to
2:20:59 > 2:21:02take this opportunity to praise it and all of those who work in it,
2:21:02 > 2:21:06particularly in my own constituency where the staff at Southport
2:21:06 > 2:21:09Hospital are professional, dedicated and hard-working. There will always
2:21:09 > 2:21:13be times when I NHS comes under great and winter is one of those
2:21:13 > 2:21:17times, that's why in 2017 the government and NHS began preparing
2:21:17 > 2:21:22the winter earlier than ever before. In the autumn of last year the
2:21:22 > 2:21:25Secretary of State visited my local hospital and had a meeting with me
2:21:25 > 2:21:28and the interim Chief Executive where we talked through the plans
2:21:28 > 2:21:33that have been put in place for the coming winter, as well as paying
2:21:33 > 2:21:37tribute to excellent staff who worked hard and continue to do so.
2:21:37 > 2:21:40Those preparations involved working with a range of partner
2:21:40 > 2:21:44organisations, including the local cynical commissioning group of the
2:21:44 > 2:21:49local authority, as well as the emergency services, providing better
2:21:49 > 2:21:53joined up thinking, which provides better care for patients. Although
2:21:53 > 2:22:00the deferment of elective operations is never ideal, fewer were deferred
2:22:00 > 2:22:03and in previous years, a fact that should be welcomed, and I am certain
2:22:03 > 2:22:07that this will improve the coming years. It's important to remember
2:22:07 > 2:22:11that we have a record of continuous investment in the NHS. Even though
2:22:11 > 2:22:15we have been faced with extraordinarily difficult
2:22:15 > 2:22:18circumstances. The Department of Health's budget has been protected
2:22:18 > 2:22:24since 2010 and continues to rise. We can only spend more on the NHS when
2:22:24 > 2:22:29we have a strong economy, something which we clearly would not have
2:22:29 > 2:22:32under Labour. These numbers speak for themselves. Our investment in
2:22:32 > 2:22:39the NHS will rise from 101 billion in 2015, to 120 billion by 2,020 and
2:22:39 > 2:22:43research from the Nuffield Trust shows the UK spends well above the
2:22:43 > 2:22:48UK average. I must welcome the government's multi-million pound
2:22:48 > 2:22:52investment in Southport District Hospital over this winter and was
2:22:52 > 2:22:55delighted when Southport and Ormskirk trust was granted an
2:22:55 > 2:23:00additional 1.3 to 6 million in funding to help cope with winter
2:23:00 > 2:23:04pressures. Southport Hospital and the wider health system has prepared
2:23:04 > 2:23:08early and more extensively than ever before for this winter and the focus
2:23:08 > 2:23:12on ensuring the right numbers of doctors and nurses, increasing bed
2:23:12 > 2:23:16availability, as well as making sure there is strong social and community
2:23:16 > 2:23:22support able to help discharge patients as quickly as possible from
2:23:22 > 2:23:27hospital. The extra funding was announced as part of a £337 million
2:23:27 > 2:23:31in media boost for NHS hospitals this winter in the recent budget,
2:23:31 > 2:23:35and in addition to next 2.8 billion investment over the next two years.
2:23:35 > 2:23:40This of course was welcome news for Southport patients and residents. We
2:23:40 > 2:23:45all want to know that the NHS is therefore as. Our families, whenever
2:23:45 > 2:23:48we need it. I'm pleased the government has given the NHS extra
2:23:48 > 2:23:52support at this critical time of year when cold weather and flu can
2:23:52 > 2:23:55increase the pressure is on hard-working hospital staff. A
2:23:55 > 2:23:58constituent of mine recently contacted me to tell me about the
2:23:58 > 2:24:02excellent treatment that his elderly mother had received at Southport
2:24:02 > 2:24:06Hospital over the Christmas period after she suffered a serious health
2:24:06 > 2:24:10scare. His mother and his family were unanimous in their praise for
2:24:10 > 2:24:14the paramedics who brought her to the hospital for the nurses who
2:24:14 > 2:24:16treated her with unparalleled kindness, and the doctors who sought
2:24:16 > 2:24:21to get her back to full health as soon as possible. His mother said we
2:24:21 > 2:24:25could not have asked for more. It is my pleasure to put on the record my
2:24:25 > 2:24:29sincere thanks from them to my Right Honourable friend, the Secretary of
2:24:29 > 2:24:33State, and now of course of social care, and I'm sure he will make a
2:24:33 > 2:24:38success of that job as he has done in health. It remains for me to say,
2:24:38 > 2:24:41Madam Deputy Speaker, that it is ultimately thanks to our strong
2:24:41 > 2:24:46economy that we can make this extra investment in the NHS, show the NHS
2:24:46 > 2:24:53is the institution that makes us the most proud.Liz Kendall.Thank you,
2:24:53 > 2:24:56Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm afraid too much of what we have heard from
2:24:56 > 2:25:01ministers and some members opposite has tried to pass off the presses in
2:25:01 > 2:25:06the NHS that we are seeing is just what happens every year. I've worked
2:25:06 > 2:25:13with the NHS for around 20 years now, and let me tell you, they
2:25:13 > 2:25:17aren't. Cancelling operations for a whole month is extremely serious. In
2:25:17 > 2:25:25one week alone 300 operations have been cancelled in Leicester,
2:25:25 > 2:25:28including four patients like 80-year-old Kenneth Roberts, who was
2:25:28 > 2:25:33due to have his hip operation tomorrow. He's in so much pain he is
2:25:33 > 2:25:37on liquid morphine, he has to use crutches or a wheelchair to get
2:25:37 > 2:25:40about, and his wife Jenny is physically and mentally exhausted
2:25:40 > 2:25:46too. One of the real problems, or the real absences I've seen, is any
2:25:46 > 2:25:50acknowledgement from ministers about the huge knock on effect,
2:25:50 > 2:25:56rescheduling a whole month's worth of operations will have. It will
2:25:56 > 2:25:58simply make existing patients already on the waiting list wait
2:25:58 > 2:26:02even longer too, and it will be very, very difficult to bring back
2:26:02 > 2:26:07down.
2:26:07 > 2:26:11As My Honourable Friend, the member. In South said, some of us on this
2:26:11 > 2:26:17side of the House have a terrible sense of deja vu, we remember the
2:26:17 > 2:26:231990s, ambulances during up outside A&E and patients languishing for
2:26:23 > 2:26:26years on the waiting list. And we've had the outcry from some right-wing
2:26:26 > 2:26:32commentators that the NHS can no longer survive as a service free at
2:26:32 > 2:26:36the point of use, I'm afraid we have seen that coming back again all too
2:26:36 > 2:26:41soon. The point is, we're not dealing with the long-term
2:26:41 > 2:26:47underlying demands on health and care services, our ageing
2:26:47 > 2:26:51population, more people living with one or two chronic conditions who
2:26:51 > 2:26:55desperately need more preventative services in the community and huge
2:26:55 > 2:26:59technical advances, too. Yes, the government talks about that but they
2:26:59 > 2:27:03do not understand the scale of the challenge of the response required.
2:27:03 > 2:27:09The truth is, since 2010, the NHS has had an average annual increase
2:27:09 > 2:27:16in real terms of 1%, compared to three and a half %, historically and
2:27:16 > 2:27:205.5% under the last Labour government. On top of that, huge
2:27:20 > 2:27:29cuts to social care and I have to say, dreadful, wasteful, pointless
2:27:29 > 2:27:32reorganisation which has given reform a bad name and unless the
2:27:32 > 2:27:37government changes course, we will see increased rationing by waiting
2:27:37 > 2:27:41in the NHS leaving thousands of patients in pain and distress and
2:27:41 > 2:27:46increasing rationing by eligibility criteria in social care leaving
2:27:46 > 2:27:49millions of elderly and disabled people without any support at all.
2:27:49 > 2:27:53That is not what the people of this country want. The government needs
2:27:53 > 2:27:59to put in place a bold ten year strategy for an investment and
2:27:59 > 2:28:06reform for both the NHS and social care. They should drop the idea of a
2:28:06 > 2:28:09separate social care green paper. You can't look at the two
2:28:09 > 2:28:13separately, and they should heed calls from backbenchers for a
2:28:13 > 2:28:18cross-party convention. I'm worried about the idea of a Royal
2:28:18 > 2:28:21commission. I think that would take too long. We know what the options
2:28:21 > 2:28:25are for investment and reform. We need to get on with the job. I would
2:28:25 > 2:28:32suggest a short per 6-8 month process to get cross-party
2:28:32 > 2:28:35agreement, particularly on funding for social care because any party
2:28:35 > 2:28:39that comes up with a substantial proposal risks being obliterated by
2:28:39 > 2:28:44their opponents and because we need a proposal for funding that will
2:28:44 > 2:28:50last, whichever government will be in power. On the 70th anniversary of
2:28:50 > 2:28:57the NHS, I urge the government to Act.It is with regret that members
2:28:57 > 2:28:59opposite have continued to politicise this issue. As someone
2:28:59 > 2:29:07who has worked in the NHS for 20 years myself, I have worked in a & B
2:29:07 > 2:29:10under winter pressures whenever amulet is queueing round the block
2:29:10 > 2:29:12under the last Labour government, when major incidents had been
2:29:12 > 2:29:18declared because we could not take any more patients, when there were
2:29:18 > 2:29:21patients in corridors, and lino floors in makeshift mattresses and
2:29:21 > 2:29:25to continue to blame one government or the other does nothing for
2:29:25 > 2:29:29patients or staff, because that is a road B continue down we will be here
2:29:29 > 2:29:34not next year or the year after but five, ten, 15 years' time. It is not
2:29:34 > 2:29:42just about throwing money at the problem. We have erred in the debate
2:29:42 > 2:29:48today, and yet they are also facing pressures in Wales this winter with
2:29:48 > 2:29:528% more funding per person, so it is not just about the funding, it is
2:29:52 > 2:29:58about what is done with money. I would pay tribute to my local health
2:29:58 > 2:30:01service. In the debate this time last year, I stood here and said,
2:30:01 > 2:30:07why is my two trusts in my constituency and not coping when the
2:30:07 > 2:30:11neighbouring trusts in Worthing has been able to cope with all of the
2:30:11 > 2:30:15patients that they needed to? And I am proud that one year later after
2:30:15 > 2:30:21both of those hospitals were placed in special measures, after the CQC
2:30:21 > 2:30:24are put in the resources and a new management team in place, both of my
2:30:24 > 2:30:30local hospitals, despite a 6% increase during the long winter
2:30:30 > 2:30:35period, have been able to cope with an 11% increase in the number of
2:30:35 > 2:30:40patients not just visiting A&E but being admitted, they have not had to
2:30:40 > 2:30:44cancel mass operations, they've not had to cancel appointments in the
2:30:44 > 2:30:47hospital, they have not had patients in corridors, they have not had
2:30:47 > 2:30:51ambulances queueing round the block. This tells me it is not just about
2:30:51 > 2:30:55how much money you put into the service but about what you do with
2:30:55 > 2:30:57that money. Let's look briefly at what they have done in my local
2:30:57 > 2:31:03trust, to stop this crisis. That seems to have happened in other
2:31:03 > 2:31:10parts of the country. The NHS staff is the doctors, nurses, porters and
2:31:10 > 2:31:13Angevin staff that have worked tirelessly throughout that period,
2:31:13 > 2:31:18and I pay tribute to them -- ambulance staff. It is also bad
2:31:18 > 2:31:22management and the new teams in Eastbourne and Brighton have done
2:31:22 > 2:31:26tremendously well to turn those services round. -- it is also about
2:31:26 > 2:31:31management. It is also about planning. My local community trust
2:31:31 > 2:31:37has seen a 30% reduction in delayed discharges, which meant that they
2:31:37 > 2:31:40were about 84% occupancy in the acute hospitals going into the
2:31:40 > 2:31:45winter period. That is why working together with community services,
2:31:45 > 2:31:49you don't need a major reorganisation of government
2:31:49 > 2:31:53department, you can do it by working well locally, and that is what they
2:31:53 > 2:31:56are doing. It is also about working with social services and social
2:31:56 > 2:32:02care. Opening up for the community beds in New Haven has taken huge
2:32:02 > 2:32:06pressure off the local hospitals and both of my trusts have said has said
2:32:06 > 2:32:12that the emergency money, £2 million each hospital trust has enabled them
2:32:12 > 2:32:17to keep those community beds opened and enabled patients to be admitted
2:32:17 > 2:32:20to the acute centre and move to a Community Hospital and then be
2:32:20 > 2:32:26discharged safely and securely. So then we do need to look at capacity,
2:32:26 > 2:32:31if we are going to see, year-on-year, an 11% increase in the
2:32:31 > 2:32:37number of patients, that isn't just about providing more money but about
2:32:37 > 2:32:40how the services delivering. My local trusts have done it and there
2:32:40 > 2:32:44is no reason why that can't happen around the rest of the country and,
2:32:44 > 2:32:47once again, the Brighton and Eastbourne hospitals, I pay huge
2:32:47 > 2:32:56tribute them.The crisis in the NHS in the winter is real, and patients
2:32:56 > 2:32:58and NHS staff are feeling the affects. We have seen thousands of
2:32:58 > 2:33:03operations cancelled, ambulance crews and patients waiting in A&E,
2:33:03 > 2:33:09in my constituency on Monday, 26 patients and paramedics were waited
2:33:09 > 2:33:14more than an hour to hand them over. From the 20th November to the 31st
2:33:14 > 2:33:21of December we had a bed occupancy rate of over 99%. This is not safe
2:33:21 > 2:33:28and not acceptable. 19% had hand over delayed for over 30 minutes and
2:33:28 > 2:33:338% delayed by over one hour. We have heard of terrible ordeals suffered
2:33:33 > 2:33:38by patients across the country and NHS staff stretched to the limit.
2:33:38 > 2:33:42Operations have been cancelled until the end of January. It is estimated
2:33:42 > 2:33:47that 55,000 operations will be delayed. There is another crisis in
2:33:47 > 2:33:50the NHS this winter that deserves Parliamentary attention and that is
2:33:50 > 2:33:53the government plan to make regulatory changes to facilitate the
2:33:53 > 2:33:57introduction of accountable care organisations, lands for which the
2:33:57 > 2:34:00government has failed to provide any time for Parliamentary scrutiny on
2:34:00 > 2:34:05the floor of this House. Accountable care organisations and systems are
2:34:05 > 2:34:11ideas imported from America. In the US they have involved government and
2:34:11 > 2:34:13private insurers, awarding large contracts to commercial providers to
2:34:13 > 2:34:17run and provide services. Of course we all know the horror stories of
2:34:17 > 2:34:21how expensive health care is in the US, and how people have complex
2:34:21 > 2:34:24conditions find it difficult to get conditions and there are stories of
2:34:24 > 2:34:27people with cancer being forced to sell their homes to pay for their
2:34:27 > 2:34:30own care. These horror stories are real and we all have a
2:34:30 > 2:34:34responsibility to be on our guard against any introduction of private
2:34:34 > 2:34:42health insurance models here, which is why we must scrutinise these
2:34:42 > 2:34:47ACOS, they have one budget to provide Bruce Pacific population and
2:34:47 > 2:34:51were satisfied they have no extra money. They are in 44 areas land
2:34:51 > 2:34:54rather than for the country as a whole. It follows that an increase
2:34:54 > 2:34:58in demand for health care and one of those areas, as the result of an
2:34:58 > 2:35:02epidemic or serious accident, then the money is taken out of that,
2:35:02 > 2:35:07squeezing the rest of the system for health and social care. One of the
2:35:07 > 2:35:10great strengths of the NHS is it provides one large risk pool for
2:35:10 > 2:35:14everyone in England to be supported within it. Why would the government
2:35:14 > 2:35:17committed to a National Health Service juice to replace one large
2:35:17 > 2:35:22risk pool with 44 local ones? Does not make any sense. At the heart of
2:35:22 > 2:35:29the issue is a serious matter that ACOs will be non-NHS entity Sevigny
2:35:29 > 2:35:32clarity from the secretary of the state and we need him on the floor
2:35:32 > 2:35:35of this House to answer some serious questions. It seems logical to me
2:35:35 > 2:35:40that these private companies, giving that they have come from America as
2:35:40 > 2:35:43an idea, and we know that the Secretary of State considers the
2:35:43 > 2:35:46American health care company to be one of the best practices in
2:35:46 > 2:35:50integrated care. If allowed to operate ACOs will be given
2:35:50 > 2:35:54multi-billion pound health and social care budgets for ten years or
2:35:54 > 2:35:57more, they were blurred about is between health and social care and
2:35:57 > 2:36:02as a risk we will see an increase in attacks that people will be asked to
2:36:02 > 2:36:06pay for. It will be in control of a huge budget for the entire health
2:36:06 > 2:36:10and social care needs of an area, so it would have a huge amount of power
2:36:10 > 2:36:13in determining what it does and crucially what it does not
2:36:13 > 2:36:17commission. I have had a lot of correspondence from people in my
2:36:17 > 2:36:21constituency concerned that the introduction of ACOs are yet another
2:36:21 > 2:36:25major step on the wholesale privatisation of the NHS. My
2:36:25 > 2:36:29constituents have expressed real concern that, if the ACOs are set up
2:36:29 > 2:36:33they will provide a means to introduce private health insurance
2:36:33 > 2:36:36models area by area, in a way that they could not do on a national
2:36:36 > 2:36:39basis because it would be politically unacceptable. Let's have
2:36:39 > 2:36:44no more talk of taking the politics out of the NHS. It is a political
2:36:44 > 2:36:49entity. People need to take responsibility for their decisions
2:36:49 > 2:36:55around the Health and Social Care Act.Thank you, Madam Deputy
2:36:55 > 2:37:02Speaker. May I start by disagreeing profoundly with the lady opposite?
2:37:02 > 2:37:05As I health professional, a doctor and has worked any health service
2:37:05 > 2:37:09for the last 15-20 years, sitting nearby the last few hours plus
2:37:09 > 2:37:14listening to people on opposite benches being negative, negative,
2:37:14 > 2:37:17negative about the NHS has been profoundly taxing to remain in my
2:37:17 > 2:37:24seat. Firstly, either like to say that I have worked in the NHS over
2:37:24 > 2:37:29Christmas and the period, and I saw people waiting, yes, waiting longer,
2:37:29 > 2:37:33much longer than we would like them too. I also saw a profoundly
2:37:33 > 2:37:39seriously injured child who came in, he had all of the very best
2:37:39 > 2:37:42treatment. The people were available, the equipment was
2:37:42 > 2:37:47available, the hospital staff that he needed all available for his
2:37:47 > 2:37:50treatment. There were times a dozen people around his bed and I am
2:37:50 > 2:37:53pleased to see that he got the treatment that enabled him to
2:37:53 > 2:37:57survive. We need to get away from just always picking out the negative
2:37:57 > 2:38:01points, and remember that these people that we talk about, the more
2:38:01 > 2:38:05people that have been treated and are surviving are real, genuine
2:38:05 > 2:38:09people going on to lead long, healthy lives and are pleased with
2:38:09 > 2:38:12the NHS treatment they have received from the millions of NHS staff that
2:38:12 > 2:38:16work in the health service today and will have been working on Christmas
2:38:16 > 2:38:20and New Year's Day. In terms of looking forward, what about looking
2:38:20 > 2:38:26at what we can do to improve? I didn't hear anything from the
2:38:26 > 2:38:29Secretary of State, from the Shadow Secretary of State in her speech
2:38:29 > 2:38:32about what he was going to be about to make anything better if he was in
2:38:32 > 2:38:47charge. I will give way.I do come here with some suggestions. My
2:38:47 > 2:38:52suggestions are, we know that the over 75 Soomin Lee go to we know
2:38:52 > 2:38:55that they are more unwrought than they used to be, why don't we get
2:38:55 > 2:39:00volunteers with medical experience to go through every GP list and make
2:39:00 > 2:39:06sure that the over 75 's are OK, and urge them to turn up at their GP as
2:39:06 > 2:39:09soon as they become unwell, and not to wait until they get to the state
2:39:09 > 2:39:18where they need intravenous drugs and need to GOTO A&E?I think you
2:39:18 > 2:39:22might be mistaken on that because the people most likely to come to
2:39:22 > 2:39:27A&E are the under 19-year-olds, the over 65 represent 20% of the
2:39:27 > 2:39:32attendance at A&E, the vast majority of people who, following the Red
2:39:32 > 2:39:35Panthers, will require admission to hospital, which is slightly
2:39:35 > 2:39:44different group. People are waiting for admission to hospital after they
2:39:44 > 2:39:49have been seen, people are waiting to be put forward, to be moved the
2:39:49 > 2:39:54wards, so that the ambulances can free up their patients and let them
2:39:54 > 2:40:01be treated. I met the Secretary of State earlier this week following my
2:40:01 > 2:40:07work in A&E over the winter period I noticed amulet screws waiting next
2:40:07 > 2:40:11to the trolley with their patient to be seen. They were not able to leave
2:40:11 > 2:40:14until they properly handed over their patient. That is very
2:40:14 > 2:40:20important for care. Equally, we need those ambulances back out onto the
2:40:20 > 2:40:26streets to collect those patients waiting at home to be picked up. And
2:40:26 > 2:40:34we could do much better if we cohorted these patients, and list
2:40:34 > 2:40:38was coming in with one on board, one can look after those patients was
2:40:38 > 2:40:43the other two go out to see more patients. It is not all about money
2:40:43 > 2:40:47it is sometimes about inventive use of money to create safe and
2:40:47 > 2:40:50efficient protocols. Finally, I wanted to talk about the
2:40:50 > 2:40:54postponement of operations. Postponement of operations is really
2:40:54 > 2:40:59very upsetting. When you have waited a long time for that operation, you
2:40:59 > 2:41:03have psyched yourself up for the pain and distress that you know
2:41:03 > 2:41:06you're going to go through, perhaps you are very nervous and fearful of
2:41:06 > 2:41:12the operation itself. But when you are essentially have an above
2:41:12 > 2:41:17choices, either we say that we will run the hospital at a very low
2:41:17 > 2:41:20capacity all summer which is hugely expensive to do an order that there
2:41:20 > 2:41:25was lots of capacity ready for the winter, war, we say we will not do
2:41:25 > 2:41:29as much elective work over the winter and then we're cancelling
2:41:29 > 2:41:33operations that may not need to be cancelled, maybe giving people more
2:41:33 > 2:41:37notice that they might have been able to have the operation, always
2:41:37 > 2:41:40say to people, we will plan your operation, but there is a
2:41:40 > 2:41:44possibility that because this is the winter, if it is acutely busy then
2:41:44 > 2:41:49we might need to postpone it. None of those situations are ideal. All
2:41:49 > 2:41:54of them have pros and cons, what we need to do is have an adult,
2:41:54 > 2:41:56grown-up cross-party discussion about the best way because
2:41:56 > 2:42:00otherwise, whichever of those options are chosen by the government
2:42:00 > 2:42:04at the time, the other side will criticise, and what we need to do,
2:42:04 > 2:42:08as has been suggested by many on both sides of the House, we need to
2:42:08 > 2:42:14take the politics out of the health service, recognise that the vast
2:42:14 > 2:42:16majority of patients received excellent care from the health
2:42:16 > 2:42:20service, that it is doing more than it has ever done before, and look at
2:42:20 > 2:42:28how we improve those areas that do need to be improved, together.
2:42:28 > 2:42:31Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It's interesting to follow on from the
2:42:31 > 2:42:34previous peak and I have to say respectfully I wholeheartedly
2:42:34 > 2:42:39disagree with her, she speaks of some kind of NHS utopia but that is
2:42:39 > 2:42:43not the reality of what I have seen what I have been on our A&E front
2:42:43 > 2:42:47line and respectfully I am an A&E specialist and worked in the NHS for
2:42:47 > 2:42:51the last 12 years. When you look around the Aimi everything is on
2:42:51 > 2:42:56display in high-definition, people's pain, people's fears, courage and
2:42:56 > 2:43:02hopes. The unfailing dedication, expertise and strength of the staff
2:43:02 > 2:43:06who work in them. And yes, the state of the NHS, is in turmoil. It is in
2:43:06 > 2:43:11crisis. Not only that, this crisis is turning into a disaster. From
2:43:11 > 2:43:14hospitals across the country, we have heard this is not a surface
2:43:14 > 2:43:20issue, or a temporary one, the symptoms of the NHS crisis are all
2:43:20 > 2:43:24connected and multiply into new problems. You don't see it in
2:43:24 > 2:43:29statistics alone, but you do see it in the Aimi. They are completely
2:43:29 > 2:43:33overcrowded. The reality is people feel forced to come to A&E that
2:43:33 > 2:43:36shouldn't even have to be there. People who couldn't get a GP
2:43:36 > 2:43:40appointment, people who had to wait too long for a hip replacement and
2:43:40 > 2:43:44are in severe pain. Together with the emergency cases from heart
2:43:44 > 2:43:47attacks took road traffic accidents, strokes, it's too much for the
2:43:47 > 2:43:52resources we have all stopped Madam Deputy Speaker, the reality is
2:43:52 > 2:43:56stark. Cubicles are full because there is no space to move patients
2:43:56 > 2:44:00onto the wards. The wards are full because our social care system is
2:44:00 > 2:44:07broken and woefully inadequate. When all beds are full, you see
2:44:07 > 2:44:11ambulances queueing up outside hospitals. They are full of patients
2:44:11 > 2:44:14who can't get hospital care. What do you say to a mother or a father who
2:44:14 > 2:44:19is in an ambulance with their child, scared and anxious, who has to wait
2:44:19 > 2:44:24outside the hospital for another hour? That is what we are seeing and
2:44:24 > 2:44:28that is the reality. The reality is that doctors and nurses are too
2:44:28 > 2:44:33stretched to do the jobs that we are trained to do. We have been the
2:44:33 > 2:44:36recipients of first-class education and training in the UK and we are
2:44:36 > 2:44:40unable to deliver the very thing that we know to be true and to be
2:44:40 > 2:44:46right, to treat the symptomatic not just because. There is little time
2:44:46 > 2:44:50for prevention. On New Year's Eve when I worked in A&E, we had a
2:44:50 > 2:44:54teenage girl who fainted. We treated her, spent time talking to her, but
2:44:54 > 2:44:58you know that we pride ourselves on being able to find out the root
2:44:58 > 2:45:08cause, is there an underlying eating disorder, is she being bullied at
2:45:08 > 2:45:10home or at school? To have these conversations you need to build
2:45:10 > 2:45:13trust and trust takes time. What does that mean? If you don't it
2:45:13 > 2:45:15means the patient is more likely to return in pain because their
2:45:15 > 2:45:18operation is cancelled. Fainting at school furthermore, needing to be
2:45:18 > 2:45:23part of Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services. This all places a
2:45:23 > 2:45:27burden on our already stretched NHS. It won't change until this
2:45:27 > 2:45:31government decides to live up to its most sacred duty, the protection of
2:45:31 > 2:45:34the health and security of us all. The NHS is underfunded and
2:45:34 > 2:45:40overwhelmed. I'd be delighted to give way.Does my honourable friend
2:45:40 > 2:45:44agree that desperate patients should never have to resort to smuggling
2:45:44 > 2:45:48out secretly filmed footage of trolley lined corridors with people
2:45:48 > 2:45:51sitting on the floor, such as those I've received from my constituents
2:45:51 > 2:45:56visiting or working in the hospital in Ashford?I thank my honourable
2:45:56 > 2:46:00friend for her point and agreed is deplorable patients should feel they
2:46:00 > 2:46:05have to do that. I must be clear, the NHS's historic underfunding is
2:46:05 > 2:46:11not an economic necessity. It is a political choice, a choice made by
2:46:11 > 2:46:15this government. That's why this government will not change its
2:46:15 > 2:46:21direction to protect us. So what must we do? We must change the
2:46:21 > 2:46:26government. Until we do so the NHS will continue to crumble around its
2:46:26 > 2:46:31heroic staff, who will carry on giving their all, and with whom I'm
2:46:31 > 2:46:34honoured to stand beside. You don't see their work in the headlines but
2:46:34 > 2:46:40in some of the most harrowing, important, joyful moments of
2:46:40 > 2:46:44people's lives. As NHS practitioners, you can't always
2:46:44 > 2:46:48change the outcome but with time and resources you can change the
2:46:48 > 2:46:56journey. It's time we saw a change in our A&Es, in our hospitals and
2:46:56 > 2:47:01Department of Health.Simon Hall. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and
2:47:01 > 2:47:05it's a pleasure to follow the Honourable Lady, the number for
2:47:05 > 2:47:08Tooting, and for what it's worth can I thank her and as I thank my
2:47:08 > 2:47:14honourable friend the member for Lewes, the member for Sleaford and
2:47:14 > 2:47:17North high command the medical colleagues who spent time working in
2:47:17 > 2:47:21our service in this period looking after constituents. Their service is
2:47:21 > 2:47:27second to none. Could I also put on record my thanks to my honourable
2:47:27 > 2:47:31friend a member for Ludlow, for the work he has done in the department
2:47:31 > 2:47:35command to welcome the new team and to echo many colleagues' thanks from
2:47:35 > 2:47:39around the chamber and across the party from all geographies of the
2:47:39 > 2:47:44country in thanking both our NHS staff, the ambulance drivers, the
2:47:44 > 2:47:48paramedics, and of course, those who work in our county social services
2:47:48 > 2:47:54as well, all of whom are trying to play a part. I'm going to be
2:47:54 > 2:47:59distracted slightly, but I am going to take strong issue with the
2:47:59 > 2:48:04Honourable Lady the member for the Wirral West, who said with full
2:48:04 > 2:48:09momentum theory that the NHS, and I quote, is a political entity. And I
2:48:09 > 2:48:14say to the Honourable Lady, with the greatest of respect, it is not. The
2:48:14 > 2:48:17National Health Service is a publicly funded service, populated
2:48:17 > 2:48:27and staffed by public service, and publicly motivated, qualified medics
2:48:27 > 2:48:31and others, who look after our constituents and their health needs
2:48:31 > 2:48:38free at the point of use. They are not politicised. They are motivated
2:48:38 > 2:48:42by care, and I would urge the Honourable Lady, rather than
2:48:42 > 2:48:45chuntering from a sedentary position, to sit and reflect upon
2:48:45 > 2:48:49her words, because I have to say I thought that was one of the most
2:48:49 > 2:48:53dispiriting comments I have heard in my time in this House. And while she
2:48:53 > 2:48:56is reflecting on her comments, she might also wish to reflect upon
2:48:56 > 2:49:03whenever the Treasury writes another check for the health service, and
2:49:03 > 2:49:08I'm sure practitioners will welcome this as well, -- cheque. They always
2:49:08 > 2:49:14have to take into account the £2 billion a year, £2 billion a year of
2:49:14 > 2:49:21the PFI albatross bequeathed by the party opposite. Now, I want to draw
2:49:21 > 2:49:24attention to the importance, as I did to my honourable friend the
2:49:24 > 2:49:30member for Ludlow's statement on Monday, to the importance of bedded
2:49:30 > 2:49:33community hospitals. Dorset CCG under the leadership of Tim Goodson
2:49:33 > 2:49:38listen to our community campaign and saved the beds in our Westminster
2:49:38 > 2:49:42Memorial Hospital in Shaftesbury. In my judgment, Madam Deputy Speaker,
2:49:42 > 2:49:45the provision of those beds are absolutely pivotal in providing the
2:49:45 > 2:49:50link between the acute sector, as people are making their journey to
2:49:50 > 2:49:56recovery, and then on their way home. And the collaborative work
2:49:56 > 2:50:01between the NHS and Dorset County Council, where there are social care
2:50:01 > 2:50:07offices with computers are all interlinked based, embedded within
2:50:07 > 2:50:13the Westminster Hospital, working at those discharge care programmes,
2:50:13 > 2:50:16absolutely pivotal. I appreciate what we're doing in Dorset is not
2:50:16 > 2:50:19new and unique but also appreciate it's not replicated everywhere -- is
2:50:19 > 2:50:26not unique. It is married to some attention. We should also focus upon
2:50:26 > 2:50:29far better advertisements for the use of our pharmacies, and ensuring
2:50:29 > 2:50:35that our community pharmacies are a much more collegiate network of
2:50:35 > 2:50:40service provision, taking pressure off both our GPs and also our A&E
2:50:40 > 2:50:45sectors. I would urge the Minister to ensure that CCGs are better
2:50:45 > 2:50:49encouraged to make sure there is a representative from the pharmacy
2:50:49 > 2:50:53community on the boards of CCGs. This silo approach doesn't help the
2:50:53 > 2:51:00provision of care for our constituents.Thank you, Madam
2:51:00 > 2:51:03Deputy Speaker. I'm pleased to follow the member for North Dorset,
2:51:03 > 2:51:07because I too want to touch on transitional health care. But before
2:51:07 > 2:51:13I do so I too want to acknowledge the incredible, amazing,
2:51:13 > 2:51:17professional care that is provided across our health and care service.
2:51:17 > 2:51:23The love and care is there, which we all agree on, credible. But there
2:51:23 > 2:51:28are clear challenges, and we note those challenges. We have heard so
2:51:28 > 2:51:34much in the evidence provided today. It isn't just the long hours, it
2:51:34 > 2:51:37isn't just the complexity and the challenges which are placed at the
2:51:37 > 2:51:42door of health professionals. It's that stress of not having that
2:51:42 > 2:51:46additional conversation that you need to have. It's the stress of not
2:51:46 > 2:51:50being able to treat somebody as a whole person but only to be able to
2:51:50 > 2:51:54focus on the real acute situation before you. It's the stress of
2:51:54 > 2:51:59trying to keep people alive as their respiratory condition is
2:51:59 > 2:52:02deteriorating and you can't get the doctor down because you know they
2:52:02 > 2:52:08are caring for somebody in an even more acute situation. I know, I've
2:52:08 > 2:52:12been there. I've worked in acute medicine for 20 years and I know
2:52:12 > 2:52:17very much how things have passed over those 20 years and I agree with
2:52:17 > 2:52:23my Right Honourable friends who hark back to the 1990s. It was as it is
2:52:23 > 2:52:27today a terrible state in our NHS and it did improve when Labour put
2:52:27 > 2:52:31the investment in the NHS, and we can't deny that finances are at the
2:52:31 > 2:52:36heart of what is happening. I want to talk about bed occupancy, because
2:52:36 > 2:52:41it is an issue for my local trust, who has faced real acute crises over
2:52:41 > 2:52:45this winter, and I commend them in all that they have tried to do to
2:52:45 > 2:52:51avert that situation, but we've had multiple days of 100% capacity in
2:52:51 > 2:52:55our acute medical facilities. We know that the council have closed
2:52:55 > 2:53:00care homes, we know that the trust closed a transitional care unit. And
2:53:00 > 2:53:05also we are sitting with an empty Hospital adjacent to our Acute
2:53:05 > 2:53:10Hospital sitting on land which NHS property services is going to flog
2:53:10 > 2:53:14off as opposed to seeing how it can invest in better care for the people
2:53:14 > 2:53:18of my community. We need to really invest in the facilities that we
2:53:18 > 2:53:21need, particularly around transitional care for the future,
2:53:21 > 2:53:24and I believe we should take a complete review of what's needed
2:53:24 > 2:53:29with regards to the NHS estate. I also want to touch on the issue of
2:53:29 > 2:53:36the influenza outbreak this winter in York. It has had the most serious
2:53:36 > 2:53:40impact across the rest of Yorkshire, one of the worst in the country, and
2:53:40 > 2:53:45therefore it has had a real impact on staff, as well as obviously the
2:53:45 > 2:53:49acuity and volume of patients coming through the door. On top of that we
2:53:49 > 2:53:53have had norovirus, DMV, vomiting, also putting a challenge on the
2:53:53 > 2:54:01system. We absolutely must have a coherent public health strategy as
2:54:01 > 2:54:06we move forward. Because, we know there is social inequality, and who
2:54:06 > 2:54:09gets access to having the inoculations, but also we need to
2:54:09 > 2:54:14make sure that we spread out a proper strategy. That isn't
2:54:14 > 2:54:19happening, and the fact that public health is separated from acute
2:54:19 > 2:54:22health is a failure and we need to draw that together to make sure that
2:54:22 > 2:54:27we have a proper public health workforce in the community. I also
2:54:27 > 2:54:32just want to touch on funding, because my trust is in the cap
2:54:32 > 2:54:36expenditure process and I'm still waiting for a meeting with the
2:54:36 > 2:54:39minister to discuss the impact of that. But not having the flexibility
2:54:39 > 2:54:44and resources that our trust needs is having a serious impact on the
2:54:44 > 2:54:48health crisis we are seeing in York. We need to move the situation
2:54:48 > 2:54:51forward to make sure we have the resources where we need. We know at
2:54:51 > 2:54:58the moment that the NHS is really sick, and when patients are sick
2:54:58 > 2:55:01they need solutions, and I trust we will start hearing solutions from
2:55:01 > 2:55:05the government.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, it's an honour to
2:55:05 > 2:55:09follow the Honourable Lady for York Central and I would agree with her
2:55:09 > 2:55:12entirely about looking very carefully before the NHS sells off
2:55:12 > 2:55:19property or land for non-health uses. There is a reason why our
2:55:19 > 2:55:22health facilities are in the places they are and they could be better
2:55:22 > 2:55:26used for things like intermediate care. I had the honour of visiting
2:55:26 > 2:55:29County Hospital in Stafford on Christmas Day and sort the wonderful
2:55:29 > 2:55:35care being provided there. That is Stafford Hospital and Stafford
2:55:35 > 2:55:42Hospital went through the Francis inquiries and the trust special
2:55:42 > 2:55:45administration, and I want to pay tribute to the staff there who have
2:55:45 > 2:55:48done an amazing job in really bringing the hospital up to the
2:55:48 > 2:55:54standard of which it is. We now want to see more services put back into
2:55:54 > 2:55:58that great place. But it's an example of what can happen when
2:55:58 > 2:56:04people really get behind change and we see the patient and safety put at
2:56:04 > 2:56:12the heart of care. I also visited Royal Stoke on New Year's Day, and
2:56:12 > 2:56:15my honourable friend for Newcastle-under-Lyme and four Stoke
2:56:15 > 2:56:18North, already mentioned the huge pressures that the hospital has been
2:56:18 > 2:56:23under over the past few weeks. I would not deny that, I saw myself
2:56:23 > 2:56:27the trolleys in the corridor, I saw the real pressure under which the
2:56:27 > 2:56:30staff were working, but I have to say the care that I saw there was
2:56:30 > 2:56:37exemplary under those conditions. But as the honourable member for
2:56:37 > 2:56:39Newcastle-under-Lyme mentioned there are some serious issues which have
2:56:39 > 2:56:43to be tackled, not least the fact that I believe that Stoke and to
2:56:43 > 2:56:47some extent Staffordshire are systemically underfunded, if you
2:56:47 > 2:56:51look at the figures. I will be writing to the Secretary of State
2:56:51 > 2:56:57about that in due course.
2:56:57 > 2:57:00I would like to bring to the attention allows some figures, not
2:57:00 > 2:57:07recent figures but from an international health organisation,
2:57:07 > 2:57:11the WHI, four years ago, which asked patients across a number of
2:57:11 > 2:57:15developed countries whether they could get proper divot -- prop --
2:57:15 > 2:57:21proper access to good health care, and the UK performed highest. Only
2:57:21 > 2:57:254% say they could not get good access to reasonable health care. In
2:57:25 > 2:57:31Germany it was 15%. In France it was 18% said that they could not. When
2:57:31 > 2:57:34we consider the challenges that we face and the needs of the future,
2:57:34 > 2:57:37and I absolutely agree with a lot of what has been said in this debate,
2:57:37 > 2:57:46we must not forget how our NHS performs and how it is an
2:57:46 > 2:57:49egalitarian service, it provides access to people of all backgrounds
2:57:49 > 2:57:56across all our communities. I would just like, finally, do agree with
2:57:56 > 2:57:59what has been said on both sides of the House, both by the honourable
2:57:59 > 2:58:05member for Leicester West and the member for South West Wiltshire, I
2:58:05 > 2:58:08fully agree we need a cross-party approach, a ten year approach, and
2:58:08 > 2:58:13it needs to be done urgently and quickly. This green paper on social
2:58:13 > 2:58:17care is a start but it must be more extensive than that, and I would
2:58:17 > 2:58:22urge the Minister and his new team as well as the Minister on the bench
2:58:22 > 2:58:26who has done a great job over these last few months to consider widening
2:58:26 > 2:58:32the green paper to cover health and social care, now that the department
2:58:32 > 2:58:37is an integrated apartment and social care is not just something to
2:58:37 > 2:58:42be stuck on the end. Madam Speaker, I wish to pay great tribute to those
2:58:42 > 2:58:46who continue to work Day in, day out, to provide some of the best
2:58:46 > 2:58:50health care in world. It can be better, and we must make sure that
2:58:50 > 2:58:57it is.It seems like yesterday I was working in the NHS leading a group
2:58:57 > 2:59:06of GP commissioners and every winter preparing for winter. My experience
2:59:06 > 2:59:10of preparing for that Act led me to give up my day job and decide to
2:59:10 > 2:59:14become an elected politician and entered his House. My colleagues at
2:59:14 > 2:59:17the time said, try to bring some sense to the debate that goes all
2:59:17 > 2:59:21that is often so uninformed. Today we have heard some very
2:59:21 > 2:59:25well-informed obligations and I hope to offer some prospect of moving
2:59:25 > 2:59:29forward. I will talk about the Act. Its purpose was to modernise and
2:59:29 > 2:59:35avoid future crises and to put commissioning at the centre and rear
2:59:35 > 2:59:39up and empower patients and give me focus the public health and it has
2:59:39 > 2:59:42categorically failed to do so on all counts. What does the Act really
2:59:42 > 2:59:48matter to patients? All the reorganisation stake the ball. But
2:59:48 > 2:59:52this one has been to an altogether different league. Long-standing
2:59:52 > 2:59:56problems persisted and necessary changes put on hold as managers try
2:59:56 > 2:59:59to put back the infrastructure that was so wantonly destroyed by the
2:59:59 > 3:00:05Act. In my constituency, South Bristol hospital was a long-awaited
3:00:05 > 3:00:09Community Hospital serving an area of huge health needs, to support
3:00:09 > 3:00:13chronic illness in the community, working with GPs and an Urgent Care
3:00:13 > 3:00:16Centre, and access to therapies. Much has been achieved by those on
3:00:16 > 3:00:22the pipeline, but the hospital falls between five different NHS bodies.
3:00:22 > 3:00:24This week a constituent highlighted a problem when she was told an
3:00:24 > 3:00:28appointment was cancelled because the person was no longer in post,
3:00:28 > 3:00:32she persevered with the booking but they could not tell her if another
3:00:32 > 3:00:36appointment would be forthcoming. I have taken it up on her behalf but I
3:00:36 > 3:00:40have the right to three of people to try to find an answer, and members
3:00:40 > 3:00:45now that is the situation across the piece. No one body assesses health
3:00:45 > 3:00:48needs, thought that the local population and ensures that those
3:00:48 > 3:00:53services meet meet the actual need that this present in reversing
3:00:53 > 3:00:56health inequalities. How do we move forward? My own strong view now on
3:00:56 > 3:01:01the way forward is that we need to not just talk about the
3:01:01 > 3:01:05superstructures over money, although it is very important, we're at a
3:01:05 > 3:01:09critical point. Rifat centralised planning and control it didn't work
3:01:09 > 3:01:13and the era of market and competitions is also not working. We
3:01:13 > 3:01:17need to put accountability at the very heart of the system,
3:01:17 > 3:01:20accountability can be a key driver of change and improvement and it is
3:01:20 > 3:01:23absolutely vital in a functioning democracy. All of these bodies that
3:01:23 > 3:01:28now exist spent taxpayers money but no one understands who is
3:01:28 > 3:01:32responsible and accountable and how they spend that money, and that
3:01:32 > 3:01:37includes this House, which is also mystified. MPs are expected to stand
3:01:37 > 3:01:40up for local services ensuring that there are enough resources and to be
3:01:40 > 3:01:43able to make a difference when things go wrong. But we have no role
3:01:43 > 3:01:48locally and how the mandate is delivered, on the alignment of the
3:01:48 > 3:01:51national budget with local delivery and critically, neither the local
3:01:51 > 3:01:54people. They don't understand how the national taxes revert to the
3:01:54 > 3:01:58local service. We are pivotal in helping with that understanding.
3:01:58 > 3:02:02Local managers should be supported with during the great work they do
3:02:02 > 3:02:07but also the reality of the cost and quality with MPs and local people so
3:02:07 > 3:02:10that we are informed, but that will only happen if national leaders are
3:02:10 > 3:02:14supported when they pull for the Royal duty of candour, speak about
3:02:14 > 3:02:17the revert the choices which national leaders have done. It is no
3:02:17 > 3:02:21secret that the money is allocated is insufficient to be all that is
3:02:21 > 3:02:25promised in the NHS Constitution to the quality we expect. There was
3:02:25 > 3:02:27evidence that we have the most effective and efficient service in
3:02:27 > 3:02:31the world with productivity are stripping other sectors of the
3:02:31 > 3:02:37economy. We should be putting the public centre stage, understanding
3:02:37 > 3:02:45what the money in the NHS can deliver. We need to give the public,
3:02:45 > 3:02:48the responsibility that goes with the influence they have. Being able
3:02:48 > 3:02:52to follow the money is a key part of the accountability and we should all
3:02:52 > 3:03:01be part of that to help inform the next stage of the NHS.There is no
3:03:01 > 3:03:05doubt the NHS is under unique pressures, with demand going up
3:03:05 > 3:03:08every year, especially in a county like Somerset where we have an
3:03:08 > 3:03:11increasingly ageing population. It is a great place but many people
3:03:11 > 3:03:16retire there, so it increases the problem. First and foremost I want
3:03:16 > 3:03:24to thank all those working in the NHS Taunton Dean. We have had an
3:03:24 > 3:03:29extra £435 million invested in the NHS to deal with winter pressures,
3:03:29 > 3:03:33which is to be welcomed, as is the new forward planning, and whilst it
3:03:33 > 3:03:37is not desirable to have an operation cancelled, the more notice
3:03:37 > 3:03:41that one can have, the better. I have personal family experience of
3:03:41 > 3:03:46this and without a doubt, having notice of this definitely helps. I
3:03:46 > 3:03:53am now just going to focus on A&E. The A&E department at Musgrove Park
3:03:53 > 3:03:56hospital in Taunton, the main hospital in Somerset has seen 60,000
3:03:56 > 3:04:01people through its doors in the last year, a huge increase. They have
3:04:01 > 3:04:07nine consultants working and 24-hour senior cover. I've contacted the
3:04:07 > 3:04:10hospital chief executive this week for an update on how they are doing.
3:04:10 > 3:04:14He reports that it has been Xuli busy, there have been record levels
3:04:14 > 3:04:19of demand, it has had an impact on waiting times, but that the staff in
3:04:19 > 3:04:22the Department and the wider hospital and in the wider community
3:04:22 > 3:04:28have been fantastic in the way that they have responded, often going
3:04:28 > 3:04:33above and beyond. There has been so much talk today about the inadequate
3:04:33 > 3:04:37funding for the NHS and whilst that is important, it is important to get
3:04:37 > 3:04:43the right management structures in place. And in this respect, I want
3:04:43 > 3:04:47to highlight and praise Doctor Cliff man, a senior consultant at Musgrove
3:04:47 > 3:04:51Park hospital in the emergency department. He has just been awarded
3:04:51 > 3:04:56an OBE for his services to emergency medicine. Through his time as
3:04:56 > 3:05:00president of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine, he lobbied
3:05:00 > 3:05:04government to get changes in staffing, and worked hard around
3:05:04 > 3:05:09education in A&E. He came up with and devised a special A&E hub, which
3:05:09 > 3:05:14I think is an excellent model that has worked well at Musgrove Park and
3:05:14 > 3:05:19ought to be rolled out further. It brings together in the emergency
3:05:19 > 3:05:22department primary care, 24-7 support for mental health issues, a
3:05:22 > 3:05:27seven day 12 hours a day community pharmacy and a seven days a week, 14
3:05:27 > 3:05:34hours a day in-house frailty team. This is the model that I believe is
3:05:34 > 3:05:38working. I just want to touch on equipment now at Musgrove Park
3:05:38 > 3:05:46hospital. The hospital is still dealing with pre-1948 theatres and
3:05:46 > 3:05:49intensive care units. There have been plans to redevelop this since
3:05:49 > 3:05:56the 1980s and we are still waiting. In the autumn budget the Chancellor
3:05:56 > 3:05:59announced a welcome £3.6 billion investment in capital projects like
3:05:59 > 3:06:04this. And I make no bones about it, Minister, I am fully supporting this
3:06:04 > 3:06:08campaign to get new theatres at Musgrove Park. I know so many people
3:06:08 > 3:06:11who would benefit from this and indeed my own family have recently
3:06:11 > 3:06:16been treated there. Make no doubt about it, there was a top-class team
3:06:16 > 3:06:20already working there, producing excellent results, but they deserve
3:06:20 > 3:06:23new and better facilities. They are the only hospital I believe in the
3:06:23 > 3:06:28South West without updated theatres. So, please, would you support the? I
3:06:28 > 3:06:35just want to touch on social care. Linking it with health is essential.
3:06:35 > 3:06:38Somerset County Council is facing an impending very difficult situation
3:06:38 > 3:06:43over social care. Anything that can help them is to be welcomed. If they
3:06:43 > 3:06:47can get them to the next pilot to retain business rates, that would
3:06:47 > 3:06:52help with their funding and finances and dealing with social care.
3:06:52 > 3:06:55Finally, I have got to uphold the government for what it is doing this
3:06:55 > 3:06:59winter. Things are better, Vezo was more to do, but this government is
3:06:59 > 3:07:03right behind the best NHS in the world. -- there is always more to
3:07:03 > 3:07:09do.I want to pay tribute to the incredible staff working in the NHS,
3:07:09 > 3:07:12keeping the nation fit and healthy is a noble calling. They make the
3:07:12 > 3:07:17NHS what it is, a national treasure. And they ought to be proud. Many
3:07:17 > 3:07:21taking part in this debate today will know of somebody who perhaps
3:07:21 > 3:07:24would not be with us today or whose quality of life would be
3:07:24 > 3:07:30significantly worse, had it not been for the NHS. On that point, I would
3:07:30 > 3:07:36like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Callum Morris, an
3:07:36 > 3:07:4111-year-old cystic fibrosis sufferer and rendered my constituency who
3:07:41 > 3:07:49sadly lost her fight -- Al Morris. Her family have expressed thanks to
3:07:49 > 3:07:52the NHS workers who looked after her with such love and care right until
3:07:52 > 3:07:56the end including support for her parents, Bethany and Ian, and her
3:07:56 > 3:08:03sister, Carla. Al was a pioneer of raising awareness for cystic
3:08:03 > 3:08:08fibrosis and opt out organ donation and I would like to say how proud of
3:08:08 > 3:08:17where we all are. Breathe easy, Al. Oh, dear. Everybody has said all of
3:08:17 > 3:08:21the facts and figures about this debate, and I just, I will not
3:08:21 > 3:08:27repeat them. We all treasure the NHS. It needs to be funded. If I
3:08:27 > 3:08:31moved to the end and say that my constituents in Crewe and Nantwich
3:08:31 > 3:08:35don't want the Prime Minister apologise about the NHS crisis. They
3:08:35 > 3:08:41want this government to Act and to resolve the crisis by rewarding the
3:08:41 > 3:08:47Health Secretary, and the Prime Minister will have sent a clear
3:08:47 > 3:08:53message about her vision of the NHS. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is an
3:08:53 > 3:08:57opportunity for members opposite to prove that theory wrong by
3:08:57 > 3:09:01supporting this motion. Today's motion calls on the government to
3:09:01 > 3:09:05increase cash limits for the current year, allowing hospitals to resume a
3:09:05 > 3:09:13full service to the public. Actions speak louder than words, Madam
3:09:13 > 3:09:16Deputy Speaker, and today we will know whether the Prime Minister's
3:09:16 > 3:09:27apology was sincere or not.It is a pleasure to follow the honourable
3:09:27 > 3:09:31lady in this important debate, and to discuss the NHS and the
3:09:31 > 3:09:36challenges that it does tend to face at winter. We should bearing in mind
3:09:36 > 3:09:41that for decades winter has always given the NHS challenges. Clinicians
3:09:41 > 3:09:45have been asked not to take time off in January, for decades, as a
3:09:45 > 3:09:51result. I've spent time with a GP practice last Friday. They certainly
3:09:51 > 3:09:54confirmed that this flu epidemic had been one of the worst they had seen
3:09:54 > 3:09:59for many years. From the patient perspective it is quite wrong that
3:09:59 > 3:10:03those who have waited four months for perhaps maybe routine surgery
3:10:03 > 3:10:07that has an impact on their lifestyle, should have to have this
3:10:07 > 3:10:11cancelled. I believe that we need to change, but by change, I think that
3:10:11 > 3:10:14we need to change the entire structure. It is all very well and
3:10:14 > 3:10:19good for the opposition to try and write checks that they know that
3:10:19 > 3:10:22they would bounce, we have to reform the NHS within resources that it
3:10:22 > 3:10:29has. We have to look at the ageing population, that we absolutely
3:10:29 > 3:10:32embrace, but of course there is a challenge grows to make sure that we
3:10:32 > 3:10:39look after them. In the last decade 17% of this country would be severed
3:10:39 > 3:10:44-- would be over 65, and in the next decade it would be 30%. This may be
3:10:44 > 3:10:47the reason why we are seeing hospital admissions for the last ten
3:10:47 > 3:10:53years go up by 40%. To me, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am delighted that
3:10:53 > 3:10:57the Department of Health also takes care of social care, particularly
3:10:57 > 3:11:01the reforms to social care. It is long overdue. I believe we need a
3:11:01 > 3:11:06cross-party approach. I am aware that every governing party tends to
3:11:06 > 3:11:10say that, but this time I would please ask those honourable members
3:11:10 > 3:11:12opposite the rally round. There are great ideas that we can all get
3:11:12 > 3:11:18around. Madam Deputy Speaker, the key part I was to focus on and a
3:11:18 > 3:11:21couple of minutes I have is the pressures that are currently faced
3:11:21 > 3:11:27on the GP practice and the pressures that that then causes hospitals to
3:11:27 > 3:11:32then cope with. Too many patients are finding that they are going to
3:11:32 > 3:11:36A&E because the GP surgery is not there for them. I spent time the GP
3:11:36 > 3:11:41who had just come back from a patient, who he had made comfortable
3:11:41 > 3:11:44in their home, he could have pointed me to another part that my hospital
3:11:44 > 3:11:47trust covers were that patient would have been put into hospital and
3:11:47 > 3:11:51would have been there for some weeks. That is not good for the
3:11:51 > 3:11:53patient and also not good for all of those other patients waiting for
3:11:53 > 3:11:58their care.
3:11:58 > 3:12:01And of course we have seen huge demand for care for the elderly, I
3:12:01 > 3:12:05have concerns that the social care system is set up very much on a
3:12:05 > 3:12:08local authority basis. It goes without saying there are many local
3:12:08 > 3:12:11authorities where people retire to where they don't have the same
3:12:11 > 3:12:14business rates and we have a large degree of elderly folk and not as
3:12:14 > 3:12:18much business to fund them and certainly not as much council tax.
3:12:18 > 3:12:21When the government look at reform I would like them to see of social
3:12:21 > 3:12:32care should be on the same
3:12:32 > 3:12:35footing as a centralised NHS system. I won't give way because of time,
3:12:35 > 3:12:38I'm so sorry. I'd also like to see with regard to GP surgeries, is more
3:12:38 > 3:12:40action, more powers being given either to CCGs, or eight tier above,
3:12:40 > 3:12:43for there to be some intervention when there are GP practices that are
3:12:43 > 3:12:48quite clearly not functioning as they should -- a tier above. There
3:12:48 > 3:12:52is no sharing of data so CCGs cannot see where surgeries might fall over
3:12:52 > 3:12:56so to expect the CCG to take over when things go wrong I'm afraid this
3:12:56 > 3:12:59is often when it is too late. I'd like to see if there are task forces
3:12:59 > 3:13:03that could be put in place. It's clear to me that the GP model that
3:13:03 > 3:13:08we continue with from 1947 is not the same GP model that younger GPs
3:13:08 > 3:13:11want to buy into. They don't necessarily want to buy into the
3:13:11 > 3:13:16practice model, they are concerned about litigation and I don't want to
3:13:16 > 3:13:19stay in the same place for all those years. We need great reform and I
3:13:19 > 3:13:22add my support of the voices from the side and across that perhaps a
3:13:22 > 3:13:27royal commission is the way to take this forward.Thank you, Madam
3:13:27 > 3:13:30Deputy Speaker. I will come straight to the point with the 92nd is given
3:13:30 > 3:13:38to me. The truth is NHS staff said this winter crisis was predictable.
3:13:38 > 3:13:46One of the 24 trusts were at full capacity. Patients including many
3:13:46 > 3:13:51elderly and frail routinely stuck in the back of ambulances waiting to
3:13:51 > 3:13:59get into A&E. They have to cope with an increasing demand while being
3:13:59 > 3:14:07underfunded. We have also learned that the medical centre is under
3:14:07 > 3:14:09threat, 40% of walk-in centres nationwide have closed under the
3:14:09 > 3:14:22Tories since 2010. Budgetary constraints and, but the human cost
3:14:22 > 3:14:26of such cuts are catastrophic, especially in places like Bedford
3:14:26 > 3:14:32whose hospital is already struggling to cope. I would like to finish by
3:14:32 > 3:14:35thanking all the staff who worked very hard through the Christmas and
3:14:35 > 3:14:43gave their time rather than enjoy time with family at Christmas.
3:14:43 > 3:14:50Justin Madders.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have heard a
3:14:50 > 3:14:53number of excellent contributions today, the depth of the crisis has
3:14:53 > 3:14:56been reflected by the fact that no fewer than 38 members put in to
3:14:56 > 3:15:00speak and we heard from just over 20 backbenchers from all four corners
3:15:00 > 3:15:04of England. Due to the time constraints I will not be able to
3:15:04 > 3:15:08refer to all of the contributions we have heard this afternoon so I will
3:15:08 > 3:15:12pick out a few of those from those still working in the NHS such as my
3:15:12 > 3:15:15honourable friend the member for Stockton South, who said as someone
3:15:15 > 3:15:20who works in the NHS it feels like we're going back to the he also said
3:15:20 > 3:15:24it doesn't have to be like this, this decline is not inevitable and I
3:15:24 > 3:15:28totally agree with him on that. Also heard from my honourable friend from
3:15:28 > 3:15:32Wolverhampton South West who brought her service to the NHS to the fore
3:15:32 > 3:15:36and made the valid point that cancelling operations creates a
3:15:36 > 3:15:39backlog, which is something that will cause problems later on. We
3:15:39 > 3:15:43know that many trusts fail to meet their 18 week target. Perhaps the
3:15:43 > 3:15:47most compelling contribution was from my honourable friend the member
3:15:47 > 3:15:50for Tooting who spoke as somebody who has worked in A&E over the
3:15:50 > 3:15:54Christmas period and was absolutely right when she said that many who
3:15:54 > 3:15:56attend are doing so because they are not getting the treatment they need
3:15:56 > 3:15:59elsewhere in the system due to the squeeze on funding we have seen the
3:15:59 > 3:16:02man she also made the valid point that many people are not being
3:16:02 > 3:16:06discharged as quickly as we would like because of the massive cuts we
3:16:06 > 3:16:09have seen to social care over the years. Her contribution was
3:16:09 > 3:16:15excellent and she made the point that these conditions are not here
3:16:15 > 3:16:17by accident, they are here because of political choice has been made.
3:16:17 > 3:16:26So, after two years of A&E targets being missed they have shot up in
3:16:26 > 3:16:30recent weeks and some hospitals cannot see half of patients within
3:16:30 > 3:16:33four hours at A&E. The Secretary of State knows a bit wetting himself
3:16:33 > 3:16:38after a gap of one hour 42 minutes between entering No 10 on Monday and
3:16:38 > 3:16:41Offermation being issued that he was continuing his job. Perhaps he was
3:16:41 > 3:16:46left waiting in a corridor. I hope he was at least offered a chair. But
3:16:46 > 3:16:50he would have to double that time and double it again to begin to
3:16:50 > 3:16:54appreciate just how long some patients are having to wait, often
3:16:54 > 3:16:58in great discomfort and pain. Following the reshuffle on Monday,
3:16:58 > 3:17:01the health and social care secretary has now had a rebrand but it's taken
3:17:01 > 3:17:05over five years to work out that his actions might have some bearing on
3:17:05 > 3:17:09social care, how much longer will it be before he learns the message
3:17:09 > 3:17:12about underfunding in the NHS is so consistent because it is true? How
3:17:12 > 3:17:16long will it be before he realises that under his watch standards have
3:17:16 > 3:17:20deteriorated almost on every measure. How long will it be before
3:17:20 > 3:17:23he realises the decisions his government takes have led to the
3:17:23 > 3:17:28litany of woe we have heard today? There is no point... Yes.I am most
3:17:28 > 3:17:36grateful. The comment from an emergency consultant at Charing
3:17:36 > 3:17:40Cross, they were practising battlefield medicine, by which he
3:17:40 > 3:17:45meant as a blue light ambulance arrived, they took somebody to
3:17:45 > 3:17:48resuscitation or left them in the corridor until the bed was free. Yet
3:17:48 > 3:17:54the same hospital is facing losing all of its emergency beds and its
3:17:54 > 3:17:57blue light A&E. Does he think that we need a rethink on further
3:17:57 > 3:18:02reductions in beds and A&E capacity given the crisis we are in?I thank
3:18:02 > 3:18:05my honourable friend for his contribution and he's absolutely
3:18:05 > 3:18:08right, there are many statements that have been made for those
3:18:08 > 3:18:11working on the front line about how acute the situation is, we know that
3:18:11 > 3:18:16bed numbers have rapidly dropped over recent years, and I think the
3:18:16 > 3:18:21worry is that under the STPs even more beds might be lost. Going back
3:18:21 > 3:18:25to some of the Health Secretary's comments, he is denied there is a
3:18:25 > 3:18:31crisis but did admit on Twitter, does Tony Blair not remember his own
3:18:31 > 3:18:35regular NHS winter crisis as well? If we want to make a comparison with
3:18:35 > 3:18:38Tony Blair I will help the House on that. In the last winter under Tony
3:18:38 > 3:18:43Blair between October and December 2000 61 in 50 patients spent longer
3:18:43 > 3:18:48than four hours in A&E. In November under this Health Secretary it was
3:18:48 > 3:18:51one in ten. But of course, behind every single figure is a vulnerable
3:18:51 > 3:18:56patient who has been let down. Patient like 87-year-old Esme
3:18:56 > 3:18:59Thomas, who according to the BBC waited 22 hours to be admitted to
3:18:59 > 3:19:03award at Weston General Hospital, or as we have heard the patients at
3:19:03 > 3:19:06Pinderfields Hospital in Wakefield photographed lying on the floor,
3:19:06 > 3:19:10some of whom while still attached to grips. If the best that we can offer
3:19:10 > 3:19:13people who are ill as one of the wealthiest nations in the world is
3:19:13 > 3:19:18uncomfortable metal chair then something has gone badly wrong. What
3:19:18 > 3:19:21did the government say to the nurse who told ITV News that there have
3:19:21 > 3:19:26been times when she had spent whole days treating patients in the
3:19:26 > 3:19:29hospital car park? These stories should shame the government into
3:19:29 > 3:19:32action. But of course it's not just those attending hospital who are
3:19:32 > 3:19:36suffering at the moment, it's also those who are not able to Carter
3:19:36 > 3:19:40Hospital at all because 55,000 operations have been cancelled this
3:19:40 > 3:19:43month. When she was asked about this the Prime Minister said that it was
3:19:43 > 3:19:47all part of the plan. Well, that was all part of the plan why were the
3:19:47 > 3:19:51operations arranged in the first place? It is not a plan, Madam
3:19:51 > 3:19:56Deputy Speaker, it is a shambles. The human cost of this crisis is
3:19:56 > 3:19:59devastating. Even before the worst of the winter has reached us, there
3:19:59 > 3:20:03is a one-year-old baby with a hole in her heart having her life saving
3:20:03 > 3:20:06operation cancelled five times and her parents were told that their
3:20:06 > 3:20:09daughter could have run into cardiac arrest during the operation, so one
3:20:09 > 3:20:13can only begin to imagine the anguish those parents must have gone
3:20:13 > 3:20:18to preparing for the operation five times. What about the 12-year-old
3:20:18 > 3:20:21autistic girl from my constituency who have the operation to remove her
3:20:21 > 3:20:25tonsils postponed, she has had a bouts of infection in the last year
3:20:25 > 3:20:28because of her autism that the delay to her operation has caused MS IT.
3:20:28 > 3:20:32It was a huge deal to build her up for the operation after her
3:20:32 > 3:20:34preoperative assessment, particularly with the prospect of
3:20:34 > 3:20:37spending a night in hospital but after the cancellation she is
3:20:37 > 3:20:40anxious that when she gets to the new operation date that will be
3:20:40 > 3:20:43cancelled as well. If leaving these children anxious and in paint was
3:20:43 > 3:20:46part of the plan then it is a plan this government should be ashamed
3:20:46 > 3:20:51of. Across a whole range of indicators, the NHS has experienced
3:20:51 > 3:20:55its worst performance since records began, that was before we headed
3:20:55 > 3:20:59into this winter. Let's be clear, I do not hold for a second the people
3:20:59 > 3:21:03who work on the front line responsible for this, indeed, it is
3:21:03 > 3:21:05only through their dedication that the health service keeps going,
3:21:05 > 3:21:10despite the best efforts of this government to destroy staff morale,
3:21:10 > 3:21:14be it an entire generation of junior doctors alienate it, the next
3:21:14 > 3:21:17generation of nurses deterred from entering the profession by tuition
3:21:17 > 3:21:19fees, or thousands of staff up-and-down the country who are
3:21:19 > 3:21:24frankly fed up of rotor gaps, pay restraints and meaningless
3:21:24 > 3:21:27platitudes from this government, it only this afternoon we hear the CQC
3:21:27 > 3:21:30are postponing routine inspections, presumably because they know there
3:21:30 > 3:21:34is a winter crisis on. This is an unprecedented step which surely
3:21:34 > 3:21:38sends a huge signal to the government that this isn't just
3:21:38 > 3:21:40normal winter pressures. Let's hear from some of the staff working on
3:21:40 > 3:21:47the front line, Aimi Doctor Aidan Harrop claims the NHS had never been
3:21:47 > 3:21:51better prepared were misleading, disingenuous nonsense -- Aimi Doctor
3:21:51 > 3:21:56full-size of the system I be working in has been under resourced,
3:21:56 > 3:22:01underfunded and understaffed. Another said I'm 34 years in and
3:22:01 > 3:22:06I've never seen anything like this. These are honest hard-working
3:22:06 > 3:22:11professionals, the lifeblood of the NHS, and the benches opposite know
3:22:11 > 3:22:15full well we could have repeated dozens of other similar comments
3:22:15 > 3:22:19from NHS staff because at the bottom of all this is the inescapable,
3:22:19 > 3:22:23indisputable fact that under this government the NHS is in the middle
3:22:23 > 3:22:27of the longest and deepest financial squeeze in its entire history, and
3:22:27 > 3:22:30it is a squeeze that as we have heard today, is having devastating
3:22:30 > 3:22:36consequences. We have warned time and again that unless early and
3:22:36 > 3:22:39substantial action was taken we face another severe winter crisis, and of
3:22:39 > 3:22:44course that is exactly where we are today. We've had an apology but no
3:22:44 > 3:22:48action from the government. Patients deserve to know when this crisis
3:22:48 > 3:22:51will be sold. Patients deserve to know when they're cancelled
3:22:51 > 3:22:54operations will take place and this country deserves a government fit to
3:22:54 > 3:22:59run the NHS. I commend this motion to the House.Minister Mr Steve
3:22:59 > 3:23:06Brine.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and happy New Year. We have
3:23:06 > 3:23:10had a good debate this afternoon with someone informed, as the lady
3:23:10 > 3:23:14who speaks for Bristol South put it, contributions from both sides. Let's
3:23:14 > 3:23:19be clear, the NHS is a service we are immensely proud of, we can agree
3:23:19 > 3:23:22on that. Even during the challenging winter period it continues to
3:23:22 > 3:23:25deliver overwhelmingly safe and effective care to thousands of our
3:23:25 > 3:23:29constituents, and we should never lose sight of that. We have had
3:23:29 > 3:23:33examples today, including from my Right Honourable friend, the lady
3:23:33 > 3:23:36who speaks from Marando, who spoke with her usual calm about the triage
3:23:36 > 3:23:41model she saw working well in her area when she had to go there over
3:23:41 > 3:23:43the holiday -- Merrington. My honourable friend the member for
3:23:43 > 3:23:47Stafford who was one of many members who visited the NHS over recent
3:23:47 > 3:23:51periods and he spoke, and is well he might as he usually does come about
3:23:51 > 3:23:56the safe care being delivered there. As my Right Honourable friend the
3:23:56 > 3:23:58Secretary of State said early on before in the Prime Minister, it is
3:23:58 > 3:24:02a fact that we have done more preparation for winter this year,
3:24:02 > 3:24:06Madam Deputy Speaker, than ever before. That's planning earlier, to
3:24:06 > 3:24:11make sure the NHS is better prepared. More than this, we've put
3:24:11 > 3:24:17the money in in the form of an additional £337 million for winter
3:24:17 > 3:24:20pressures, and an additional £1 billion for the social care system
3:24:20 > 3:24:26this year. As the public health minister I'm proud of our flu
3:24:26 > 3:24:28vaccination programme, already the most comprehensive in Europe has
3:24:28 > 3:24:34been extended even further. This, Madam Deputy Speaker, was planning
3:24:34 > 3:24:38ahead. Equally, we allocated £100 million of capital funding to help
3:24:38 > 3:24:43hospital set up GP's streaming systems at their A&Es reaching 91%
3:24:43 > 3:24:48coverage by the end of November. This too, Madam Deputy Speaker, was
3:24:48 > 3:24:52planning ahead, they didn't just appear overnight. For the first time
3:24:52 > 3:24:56ever people were able to access GPs nationally for urgent abundance from
3:24:56 > 3:25:038am until 8pm seven days a week over the holiday period. Now, of course,
3:25:03 > 3:25:06Madam Deputy Speaker, there were indeed additional pressures this
3:25:06 > 3:25:10year, very cold spells, very, very cold spells in December, a sharp
3:25:10 > 3:25:14uptick in fluid and respiratory conditions and higher
3:25:14 > 3:25:16hospitalisations from confirmed cases of the flu from the peak
3:25:16 > 3:25:20period last year. I will give way to the honourable gentleman.They're
3:25:20 > 3:25:24also questions of NHS leadership. Staffordshire, as he is aware, is
3:25:24 > 3:25:31very much under pressure. The Secretary of State received reports
3:25:31 > 3:25:34into the closure and lack of consultation of community hospitals
3:25:34 > 3:25:40in our area on the 18th of October, which absolutely slated the local
3:25:40 > 3:25:44Clinical Commissioning Group scum and yet a week later the NHS
3:25:44 > 3:25:49appointed the chief operating officer of those two CCGs to oversee
3:25:49 > 3:25:52four more in Staffordshire. With the minister ask his Right Honourable
3:25:52 > 3:25:58friend to explain that decision?The sustainability in transformation
3:25:58 > 3:26:00partnerships, which are taking place across England and there will be one
3:26:00 > 3:26:04in his area as well, which I'm sure he is in gauge with, it is their
3:26:04 > 3:26:07local decision about how services are organised in local areas and I
3:26:07 > 3:26:11would implore him, as I'm sure he is and I know he is, engaging with them
3:26:11 > 3:26:15and if he wishes to talk to me about it he can. Limmy turn to some more
3:26:15 > 3:26:20contributors. The lady for Bristol South, who always speaks sensibly, I
3:26:20 > 3:26:25think, spoke about the STPs, the public and representative
3:26:25 > 3:26:28involvement in STPs, and I agree with and do more in that area, as
3:26:28 > 3:26:32the minister responsible for STPs I want to see that we do and it was a
3:26:32 > 3:26:38point made. The lady for True and Nantwich spoke about her constituent
3:26:38 > 3:26:42-- Crewe and Nat which. She spoke about her constituent who lost her
3:26:42 > 3:26:45battle with cystic fibrosis. She speaks up for her constituents and
3:26:45 > 3:26:49if she continues to do that she will do well in the House. The member for
3:26:49 > 3:26:53Stockton South, who I have a lot of respect for the day as a new Member
3:26:53 > 3:26:57of the House, typically sensible contribution. He uttered the words
3:26:57 > 3:27:00sensible suggestions for improvement in the National Health Service, and
3:27:00 > 3:27:04went on to talk about prevention and how to do better on that. He is spot
3:27:04 > 3:27:09on that prevention is part of the one NHS we all agree. He said it is
3:27:09 > 3:27:13not all about money, and absolutely we agree. Money is a key part of it,
3:27:13 > 3:27:21that's why we spend 9.9% of our GDP, that's about the EU average.
3:27:21 > 3:27:26The lady for Leicester West.She said, this is not what happens every
3:27:26 > 3:27:32year. Well, the NHS is under great pressure at this time of year, every
3:27:32 > 3:27:36year. I was reminded, just yesterday, they headline in the
3:27:36 > 3:27:43Guardian newspaper from the 27th of October 2001, entitled, NHS faces
3:27:43 > 3:27:47another winter of crisis. The NHS is often under pressure at this time of
3:27:47 > 3:27:51year and it is about how you prepare for that. I have said I think we're
3:27:51 > 3:27:54better prepared than ever, it is a shame she's not listening to the
3:27:54 > 3:28:00response. Let me touch on the lady Wirral West...I hesitate to drop, I
3:28:00 > 3:28:04do not understand why there is so much noise going on this side of the
3:28:04 > 3:28:07House. I would not be surprised if people were heckling the minister,
3:28:07 > 3:28:11but they are just making a noise. And that means the Minister cannot
3:28:11 > 3:28:15be heard. He is answering questions that he has been asked all
3:28:15 > 3:28:20afternoon. Those who ask the questions automatically the answers.
3:28:20 > 3:28:24Minister...Thank you. They appear to be heckling themselves. Let me
3:28:24 > 3:28:29just touch on the from Wirral West, he said the NHS is a political
3:28:29 > 3:28:34organisation. Totally, totally, disagree. It is run by hard-working
3:28:34 > 3:28:40people, public seven to go to work everyday to do a job for our it is
3:28:40 > 3:28:43not a political organisation. The Labour Party is and it has
3:28:43 > 3:28:51politicised the NHS. I will not give way, you have had your say. My
3:28:51 > 3:28:53friend from South West Bedfordshire spoke about leadership. Absolutely
3:28:53 > 3:29:00right. He knows that trust which has been a belief led by Dame Pauline
3:29:00 > 3:29:05Filipe Luis achieved a 98.6% patients meeting before our target.
3:29:05 > 3:29:09That is the kind of leadership that can be done and that kind of
3:29:09 > 3:29:14leadership for why she has been brought into our response for winter
3:29:14 > 3:29:18pressures. The member for South West Wiltshire said it is all about
3:29:18 > 3:29:23outcomes. Absolutely, in cancer we do not do well. Well, we have the
3:29:23 > 3:29:27best cancer outcomes ever in our country. But I agree that our
3:29:27 > 3:29:30ambition for long-term needs to be better and we need to aim higher.
3:29:30 > 3:29:34His point is noted. My friend from Hanley spoke about Henley hospital
3:29:34 > 3:29:38and the out of care what they are doing. Thank you very much for his
3:29:38 > 3:29:41invitation, and my ministerial colleagues on the bench heard him
3:29:41 > 3:29:45and it is very good to hear about the cross-party working going on in
3:29:45 > 3:29:48Oxfordshire. My honourable member for Southport talked about the
3:29:48 > 3:29:53joined up care and continuous improvement. He reminded the House
3:29:53 > 3:29:57that without a strong economy there is no strong NHS. This is not the
3:29:57 > 3:30:00Government's money, it is the public's money and we need to spend
3:30:00 > 3:30:04it well and I think we are. My honourable friend, the member who
3:30:04 > 3:30:09speaks from North Dorset, spoke about community pharmacies. A
3:30:09 > 3:30:13subject close to my heart. They are a key part and better integration of
3:30:13 > 3:30:17them with the NHS is part of that prevention and primary care agenda,
3:30:17 > 3:30:22I completely agree with him. My honourable friend from Taunton spoke
3:30:22 > 3:30:28about the AMD hub that sounds very interesting, indeed. My honourable
3:30:28 > 3:30:32friend was interested to hear that and we will take you up on seeing
3:30:32 > 3:30:37that. And finally my member for mauling, welcome back and
3:30:37 > 3:30:40congratulation on the birth of Clifford, she spoke as ever up very
3:30:40 > 3:30:43well on integration of health and social care and said that that will
3:30:43 > 3:30:47make sense and only serve to make preparation for next winter better.
3:30:47 > 3:30:51Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope to end this debate on a note that all sides
3:30:51 > 3:30:54of the House can agree. We are all truly thank full for the
3:30:54 > 3:30:58extraordinary dedication of NHS staff, caring for their patients,
3:30:58 > 3:31:01our constituents, during this extremely challenging time. As ever,
3:31:01 > 3:31:12they are doing a brilliant job.The question is, as on the order paper.
3:31:12 > 3:31:22As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The
3:31:22 > 3:31:29ayes have it. Point of order...Can you confirm that by refusing to
3:31:29 > 3:31:35defend the position of the Government this afternoon, the
3:31:35 > 3:31:38effect is that the motion stands only name of the Leader of the
3:31:38 > 3:31:42Opposition has been endorsed by the whole house, and therefore we should
3:31:42 > 3:31:45expect the Secretary of State to come to this House before the end of
3:31:45 > 3:31:50the month to make an oral statement to explain to our constituents when
3:31:50 > 3:31:57they're cancelled operations will be re-scheduled.What I can confirm to
3:31:57 > 3:32:01the honourable gentleman is that the House has just voted to carry the
3:32:01 > 3:32:08motion before us. The motion before us therefore stands. As to what the
3:32:08 > 3:32:12Secretary of State will say or do over the next few weeks, I am sure
3:32:12 > 3:32:16that the Secretary of State will be back at the dispatch box in the near
3:32:16 > 3:32:23future as he is a most assiduous attender of this chamber. But, we
3:32:23 > 3:32:26all appreciate that he has other work to do, too. We look forward to
3:32:26 > 3:32:35think him doing that. We now come to the second opposition Day motion on
3:32:35 > 3:32:42rail franchising. Mr Andy McDonald to move... Butthank you Madam
3:32:42 > 3:32:47Deputy Speaker. I beg to move the motion standing in my name and the
3:32:47 > 3:32:53name of my honourable friends. May I welcome the member from Orpington to
3:32:53 > 3:32:59his new position and that of the member of Wealden, I wish them
3:32:59 > 3:33:03success in their new posts. And Madam Deputy Beacon may I also pay
3:33:03 > 3:33:06tribute to the right honourable member for south Holland and the
3:33:06 > 3:33:14beatings for 18 years of continuous French bents service. From my --
3:33:14 > 3:33:20front bench service. He was a pleasure to work with and I hope we
3:33:20 > 3:33:23can continue that relationship in non-contentious areas, because I
3:33:23 > 3:33:27think the result of that was improved legislation. I also want to
3:33:27 > 3:33:31congratulate the Secretary of State for his superb stewardship of the
3:33:31 > 3:33:40Conservative Party. No elections lost, no major scandals. I think he
3:33:40 > 3:33:47has maintained his membership around 70,000, not bad for 27 seconds work.
3:33:47 > 3:33:51I am delighted Madam Deputy Speaker, to see this excuse taking his place
3:33:51 > 3:33:56to answers to a number of questions that I and other members have for
3:33:56 > 3:34:01him. Sadly, no Government minister was available on the 2nd of January
3:34:01 > 3:34:07two explain the highest fare increases in five years. I very much
3:34:07 > 3:34:14hope he provides some clarity today. Sadly, the entire rail debate is
3:34:14 > 3:34:18characterised by a lack of candour and transparency from both the
3:34:18 > 3:34:24Government and some quarters of the rail industry. I will give way...
3:34:24 > 3:34:29Thank you. Does he share my concern that my constituents saw the biggest
3:34:29 > 3:34:33rail fare increase in the country at nearly 5%, and the fact that we are
3:34:33 > 3:34:37still having to use Pacer trains which are virtually as old as me at
3:34:37 > 3:34:4242 years of age.I entirely agree with my honourable friend. It adds
3:34:42 > 3:34:47insult to industry, to have such heightened railway fares opposite
3:34:47 > 3:34:52such appalling services. But, it is time the Secretary of State woke up
3:34:52 > 3:34:56from his state of denial that he is in, and it is time to come clean and
3:34:56 > 3:35:01admit he has made some mistakes. No one is perfect. But, he should
3:35:01 > 3:35:05acknowledge his failures and take responsibility for the decision he
3:35:05 > 3:35:09has made and the policy he has pursued. And the consequences. I
3:35:09 > 3:35:16urge the Minister to be entirely unambiguous with the House today.
3:35:16 > 3:35:19Madam Deputy Speaker, the Government's defence of its rail
3:35:19 > 3:35:22franchising system is totally indefensible. It is not the first
3:35:22 > 3:35:26time the Government has been in the chamber this week in defence of the
3:35:26 > 3:35:34indefensible.I thank my honourable friend forgiving way. In south
3:35:34 > 3:35:38Wales, First Great Western over Christmas and New Year reduced
3:35:38 > 3:35:42services, cancelled services. It was chaos. Yet, they have been handed a
3:35:42 > 3:35:47franchise extension. Is it not time to have performance related
3:35:47 > 3:35:52franchises and performance related franchise extensions, not if you are
3:35:52 > 3:35:55already there you get it automatically? No matter what the
3:35:55 > 3:35:59service.My right honourable friend makes a very good point and I will
3:35:59 > 3:36:03be returning to those themes in the course of my speech. But, the
3:36:03 > 3:36:07Government's inability to accept that the franchise model, which is
3:36:07 > 3:36:11demonstrably failing, is a betrayal of the public who ploughed billions
3:36:11 > 3:36:17of pounds of their taxes into the railway. It is a betrayal of the
3:36:17 > 3:36:20passengers who faced eye watering fare rises year after year. It is a
3:36:20 > 3:36:25betrayal of the hundreds of thousands of dedicated and
3:36:25 > 3:36:29passionate people who have worked in the rail industry for decades. I'm
3:36:29 > 3:36:34happy to give way...Can I thank him for his kindness to me just before
3:36:34 > 3:36:38Christmas as well. But when it comes to fare rises would he be able to
3:36:38 > 3:36:42confirm whether fare rises have risen faster under this Government
3:36:42 > 3:36:48or under the last Labour Government? What the Labour position is, if we
3:36:48 > 3:36:54were in power we would not be raising fares by RPI or IPI plus
3:36:54 > 3:36:59one. We will be bringing about savings to the travelling public to
3:36:59 > 3:37:06save £500 across the time of this Parliament. I will make little
3:37:06 > 3:37:10progress and then allow interventions later. In 2016 the
3:37:10 > 3:37:14Department for Transport set out its aims and objectives for rail
3:37:14 > 3:37:21franchising. These were to encourage a flourishing, competitive passenger
3:37:21 > 3:37:25rail market which secures high performing, value for money services
3:37:25 > 3:37:30for passengers and taxpayers whilst driving cost effectiveness. It is
3:37:30 > 3:37:35clear the Department has failed to meet these objectives. The latest
3:37:35 > 3:37:38collapse of the east coast franchise announced in November makes a
3:37:38 > 3:37:47mockery of the departments 2016 games. Virgin, Stagecoach did not
3:37:47 > 3:37:51deliver and defaulted on their contract and the Secretary of State
3:37:51 > 3:37:55has given them a gift. I will give way.I am grateful for giving way.
3:37:55 > 3:37:59Given on the east coast main line, that this will be the third occasion
3:37:59 > 3:38:03in just over a decade that the private contractor has announced
3:38:03 > 3:38:07that it wishes to hand back the keys. Was it not a fundamental
3:38:07 > 3:38:12mistake on the part of the Government not to have allowed is
3:38:12 > 3:38:15coast trains, that successfully ran the franchise for over 5.5 years,
3:38:15 > 3:38:22pay back £1 billion to the Treasury to allow carrying on his good work
3:38:22 > 3:38:25and instead, ideological demanding that anybody can commit to run it
3:38:25 > 3:38:30but not the state-owned company that did it so successfully.My right
3:38:30 > 3:38:33honourable friend has made an absolutely perfect point and it will
3:38:33 > 3:38:36be a thing that is consistent throughout this debate, I have no
3:38:36 > 3:38:43doubt. Indeed, the Government should have followed the example of Labour
3:38:43 > 3:38:47in 2009 when the operator defaulted and taken the contract back into the
3:38:47 > 3:38:52public sector. If a company defaults, it does deserve the
3:38:52 > 3:38:57contract. That way there will be no reward for failure. Other companies
3:38:57 > 3:39:04in the industry would not expect the same treatment. In light of the east
3:39:04 > 3:39:07coast, what plans does the Secretary of State have to renegotiate the
3:39:07 > 3:39:13trans-Pennine express, the Northern and Crater Anglia franchise is? --
3:39:13 > 3:39:20greater. Jelinek isn't the biggest danger of this decision other
3:39:20 > 3:39:28franchisees make also come looking for a hand-out?And entirely
3:39:28 > 3:39:30consistent point with the issues that I'm putting before the House.
3:39:30 > 3:39:36Labour would not have let virgin and Stagecoach off the hook on the east
3:39:36 > 3:39:42coast. In the Secretary of State consider taking the east coast
3:39:42 > 3:39:46franchise into the public sector following the default? Yes or no
3:39:46 > 3:39:51Mac? And does he not worry that because he refuses to use a public
3:39:51 > 3:39:55sector operation even as a last resort, struggling train companies
3:39:55 > 3:40:00now know he has no option but to bail them out in the event of a
3:40:00 > 3:40:06failure. And those failures are not confined to east coast, today's
3:40:06 > 3:40:09National Audit Office report highlights a litany of errors from
3:40:09 > 3:40:13the Government over its planning and management of the Thames Link,
3:40:13 > 3:40:16southern and great Northern franchise. These blunders have
3:40:16 > 3:40:21caused misery to millions of people. It is the Government's disastrous
3:40:21 > 3:40:23handling of the franchise which led to the industrial action on the
3:40:23 > 3:40:34line. Some industry... I will.And accept the point that there has been
3:40:34 > 3:40:36this dreadful report, scathing report, on the performance of
3:40:36 > 3:40:44Northern Rail. My constituents, they are not so dependent as I am on the
3:40:44 > 3:40:47east coast, getting up and down the country. But it is the local
3:40:47 > 3:40:52franchises that are letting ordinary people getting to work.The
3:40:52 > 3:41:03honourable member has made his point very powerfully.I went into Dean in
3:41:03 > 3:41:06detail but it is important to put on the record this morning report had
3:41:06 > 3:41:10nothing to do with an Northern Rail franchise and I hope that will be
3:41:10 > 3:41:14confirmed to the House.I will do that very thing, I will confirm that
3:41:14 > 3:41:19the damning report was about Thames Link and southern and great Northern
3:41:19 > 3:41:22and it was damning of those franchises which have been
3:41:22 > 3:41:28appallingly managed. I will give way...
3:41:28 > 3:41:32Rail companies could do more for passengers to make their lives
3:41:32 > 3:41:35easier, many local stations like Langeley Mill in my constituency
3:41:35 > 3:41:38don't have a ticket machine so you can't collect prepaid tickets, so
3:41:38 > 3:41:42shouldn't it be a condition of any franchise that passengers travelling
3:41:42 > 3:41:46from such stations can use e-mail proof instead of this computer says
3:41:46 > 3:41:52no attitude we get from so many rail companies.We do have to think about
3:41:52 > 3:41:56much greater flexibility across our railway and greater accessibility
3:41:56 > 3:42:02from people from every walk of life but also different localities where
3:42:02 > 3:42:05the facilities are not as they should be. I will make some
3:42:05 > 3:42:09progress, if I may. Some industry commentators have said the Secretary
3:42:09 > 3:42:15of State accepted rail franchise bids which will access, excessive
3:42:15 > 3:42:19and unrealistic, can he confirm that the winning bids are accepted in the
3:42:19 > 3:42:25expectation that they will be paid in full? Does he anticipate the
3:42:25 > 3:42:33premium payments on South Western Railway, Greater Anglia, Northern
3:42:33 > 3:42:37command TPE franchises to be paid in full? Several other franchises look
3:42:37 > 3:42:41vulnerable in the light of the East Coast decision. Passenger growth is
3:42:41 > 3:42:46slowing across the railway amid weaker consumer confidence, rising
3:42:46 > 3:42:52fares and changing work passions. Rail passenger usage has fallen for
3:42:52 > 3:42:55two consecutive reporting periods, including a stark decline in season
3:42:55 > 3:43:01ticket purchases, the core business of rail companies. Passengers are
3:43:01 > 3:43:05being priced off the railway, and this is threatening the
3:43:05 > 3:43:09sustainability of the network as a whole.Will my Right Honourable
3:43:09 > 3:43:16friend give way? Thank you, I thank my Right Honourable friend for
3:43:16 > 3:43:20giving way. Since Southern Railway fares went on the muck up in the New
3:43:20 > 3:43:23Year three quarters of services between Fulham and Victoria have not
3:43:23 > 3:43:28arrived on time. If the delays we have seen so far I replicated bound
3:43:28 > 3:43:32commuters will waste a total of 30 hours stuck on delayed trains,
3:43:32 > 3:43:35Southern Railway is not fit for purpose, does my honourable friend
3:43:35 > 3:43:39agree it's time for action?I couldn't agree more and it's
3:43:39 > 3:43:44absolutely fascinating that we still await the revelation of the Chris
3:43:44 > 3:43:47Gibb report appendix nine, which detailed the future of that
3:43:47 > 3:43:54franchise. We haven't seen it. That was a report that was commissioned
3:43:54 > 3:43:59by Southern its self. They set the terms and conditions and the
3:43:59 > 3:44:03Secretary of State is muttering from a sedentary position, but that's the
3:44:03 > 3:44:05reality, they set out what that report should be about and they have
3:44:05 > 3:44:10not published the very kernel of the report, which was the future of that
3:44:10 > 3:44:20service.I thank my honourable friend and congratulate him. He
3:44:20 > 3:44:23mentions season tickets, my constituents are served by appalling
3:44:23 > 3:44:26services from Northern and it's hardly infest them are worth
3:44:26 > 3:44:29investing in a season ticket when trains are either cancelled or so
3:44:29 > 3:44:33crowded they can't get on, does he agree?I do agree on the great
3:44:33 > 3:44:37concern about all of that is it's not achieving the modal shift will
3:44:37 > 3:44:40want to see, it is saying to people that the railway is not for me and I
3:44:40 > 3:44:43may as well get back in my car, which is the opposite thing we
3:44:43 > 3:44:50should be doing.Can I thank the honourable member for giving way.
3:44:50 > 3:44:53He's making an excellent case. Does he not agree with me that given the
3:44:53 > 3:44:58widespread evidence of the lamentable failure of some of the
3:44:58 > 3:45:02rail companies, consumer dissatisfaction, price rises and so
3:45:02 > 3:45:07on, that there is a strong case for developing models of ownership,
3:45:07 > 3:45:12which involve both the users of the railways, those who work on the
3:45:12 > 3:45:16railways and investors in the railways in a form of cooperative
3:45:16 > 3:45:21and mutually owned model, that might well operate effectively and
3:45:21 > 3:45:26efficiently with enormous public support?I'm grateful for the
3:45:26 > 3:45:29honourable member for his point, I think is very important that
3:45:29 > 3:45:33passengers and those who work in the rail industry's voices are heard,
3:45:33 > 3:45:36these are the people who not only use the service but are committed to
3:45:36 > 3:45:42making it work.I am grateful for him giving way and my constituents
3:45:42 > 3:45:47in Brighton will agree with him 100% when he criticises GTR Southern, it
3:45:47 > 3:45:49is adding insult to injury to put prices up when the services people
3:45:49 > 3:45:57in Brighton I've so awful. -- people in Brighton are getting so awful.
3:45:57 > 3:46:01Than the cost of driving has gone down by sexting percent, would he
3:46:01 > 3:46:04agree privatisation is failing passengers and instead of lining the
3:46:04 > 3:46:08pockets of shareholders we should invest in our railways?I couldn't
3:46:08 > 3:46:12agree more and we have seen price rises of 32% since 2010 which
3:46:12 > 3:46:20underlies the point she is making. I must then crack on.I'm very
3:46:20 > 3:46:23grateful. We have enjoyed cordial exchanges on many occasions but I
3:46:23 > 3:46:26suspect this will not be one of them. The point has been made about
3:46:26 > 3:46:32rail fare increases under privatisation. I did a little bit of
3:46:32 > 3:46:35research into fare increases under nationalised British rail in the
3:46:35 > 3:46:39same period of time that British rail existed as the private
3:46:39 > 3:46:43companies have. In 15 of the 22 years there was above inflation
3:46:43 > 3:46:48increase. And overall that period rail fares were 60% higher after
3:46:48 > 3:46:53inflation. So why would nationalisation automatically lead
3:46:53 > 3:46:58to lower fares?I'm grateful to him. I'd like to think we can disagree
3:46:58 > 3:47:04with one another but we don't need to be disagreeable. He's got a good
3:47:04 > 3:47:08memory, he's going back rather a long way, and I've got to say to him
3:47:08 > 3:47:13that his party has been in power since 2010, eight years. It's the
3:47:13 > 3:47:15record of this government that is concerning us today and we're not
3:47:15 > 3:47:19going back through all of our yesterday is. One more and then I
3:47:19 > 3:47:24will get on.Yankee for giving way. He's years younger than I am --
3:47:24 > 3:47:28thank you for giving way. He can remember the state the railways used
3:47:28 > 3:47:32to be in. Would he not agree with me that we have seen a terrific
3:47:32 > 3:47:37improvement in the quality of trains, the service, the attitude of
3:47:37 > 3:47:40the staff, and excellent services are developing. Would he agree with
3:47:40 > 3:47:44me that's because of privatisation, and would you further agree that
3:47:44 > 3:47:51investment in our railways is at a record high?I regret to say that
3:47:51 > 3:47:56many passengers' experience do not match with the experience of the
3:47:56 > 3:48:01Right Honourable member. The evidence is that people are
3:48:01 > 3:48:05dissatisfied with the services they are receiving across the country, so
3:48:05 > 3:48:12I would respectfully suggest to her by going back over her in the woods
3:48:12 > 3:48:15she is describing, thinking about British rail, British rail had had
3:48:15 > 3:48:19public investment in the rate that has been poured out of the Treasury
3:48:19 > 3:48:21into private operators we would have had a gold standard railway in this
3:48:21 > 3:48:26country. I really want to make progress. A lot of people want to
3:48:26 > 3:48:31speak. Madam Deputy Speaker, all of these factors undermine the growth
3:48:31 > 3:48:36forecasts which are so central to the Government's model and the
3:48:36 > 3:48:42undeliverable bid assumptions of operators. First Group won the TPE
3:48:42 > 3:48:47franchise in December 2015 based on revenues increasing by 12% a year
3:48:47 > 3:48:51and in one of his first acts as Secretary of State he awarded the
3:48:51 > 3:48:57Greater Anglia franchise to the Dutch state-owned rail company
3:48:57 > 3:49:03Abellio in 2016. The deal commits the company to paying the government
3:49:03 > 3:49:11£3.7 billion to run the line for nine years. This is more than the
3:49:11 > 3:49:15east coast and reports suggest that Abellio's bid was £600 million more
3:49:15 > 3:49:23than the next bidder. Like TPE and East coast, Abellio's bid was based
3:49:23 > 3:49:28on double-digit annual revenue growth. The company's boss described
3:49:28 > 3:49:33the 3.7 billion price tag as scary. Does the Secretary of State
3:49:33 > 3:49:37guarantee that the Treasury will receive the full premium payment of
3:49:37 > 3:49:48£3.7 billion from Abellio great Anglia by 2025, yes or no?I'm
3:49:48 > 3:49:52grateful to my honourable friend, he's making an excellent friend. --
3:49:52 > 3:49:56case. Isn't one of the problems when these companies make these
3:49:56 > 3:49:58commitments, one of the things they do is the staffing and deskilling
3:49:58 > 3:50:05our railways in order to make more profits to pay the money back?The
3:50:05 > 3:50:10whole issue of bidding and making promises that cannot be kept is a
3:50:10 > 3:50:18consistent characteristic of the modern rail environment. If the
3:50:18 > 3:50:21company do my companies rail franchising system cannot deliver
3:50:21 > 3:50:26competition and payments to the Treasury what is the point of it? No
3:50:26 > 3:50:29doubt the Secretary of State can give a clear and straightforward
3:50:29 > 3:50:33answer, perhaps as I sit down for the last time to allow for an
3:50:33 > 3:50:37intervention, the former Secretary of State can give us some indication
3:50:37 > 3:50:41of what is the point of a franchising system if it doesn't
3:50:41 > 3:50:47deliver on the premiums as promised. I thank the Right Honourable
3:50:47 > 3:50:51gentleman. I wonder if during his speech tell us how franchising has
3:50:51 > 3:50:57changed between 97 and 2010 when it was defended continually by the last
3:50:57 > 3:50:59Labour government as the best way to seek extra investment in the
3:50:59 > 3:51:04railways. And while he is also confirming that, could he also
3:51:04 > 3:51:07confirmed there are more people employed on the east Coast Main line
3:51:07 > 3:51:12than there was under the previous people operating that line? And will
3:51:12 > 3:51:15he welcomed the fact that the Northern franchise and the trains
3:51:15 > 3:51:21referred to earlier will go as a result of the new franchise which
3:51:21 > 3:51:27the Secretary of State has brought in?On the last point first, of
3:51:27 > 3:51:30course the European Union dictate that persons with restricted
3:51:30 > 3:51:34mobility are not served by the Pacers and their time has been up
3:51:34 > 3:51:37for a long time and I'm glad to see the back of the Madonna Blyth plenty
3:51:37 > 3:51:40of people work on the railways and I'm delighted the last Labour
3:51:40 > 3:51:44government went about making the railways safe, given the disaster
3:51:44 > 3:51:48that was Railtrack that deliver the Potters Bar, Hatfield and
3:51:48 > 3:51:50Paddington, that was the legacy of the last Labour government inherited
3:51:50 > 3:51:54and turned it into the safest railway in Europe, so I'm proud of
3:51:54 > 3:51:59what the Labour government did. Direct awards and franchise
3:51:59 > 3:52:02extensions, Madam Deputy Speaker, in the rail industry have been
3:52:02 > 3:52:06overlooked in many of the rail debates. These are contracts which
3:52:06 > 3:52:11the government cannot or won't read franchise, to which they are
3:52:11 > 3:52:13ideologically opposed to running in the public sector. The train
3:52:13 > 3:52:18companies named their price to the government for running these hand to
3:52:18 > 3:52:22mouth contracts which simply keep the trains running in the short term
3:52:22 > 3:52:26and provide no long-term benefits for investment. The West Coast route
3:52:26 > 3:52:33has operated on a series of direct awards since 2012, with reports of
3:52:33 > 3:52:39another extension beyond 2019. Another key intercity franchise,
3:52:39 > 3:52:42great Western, has been operating under a director would since 2013
3:52:42 > 3:52:49when the government cancelled the franchise competition. Scandalously,
3:52:49 > 3:52:54great Western may run as a direct award for ten years until 2023. The
3:52:54 > 3:52:59government can't read franchise the rail operation because its
3:52:59 > 3:53:02management of Network Rail has been so poor and the great West
3:53:02 > 3:53:07electrification programme has been such a shambles. I predict that
3:53:07 > 3:53:11there will be more direct awards and contract extensions to rail
3:53:11 > 3:53:14franchise announced by the government. The East Midlands
3:53:14 > 3:53:19franchise is already on an extension to 2019 and will probably get
3:53:19 > 3:53:25another one. Madam Deputy Speaker, I also predict the Secretary of State
3:53:25 > 3:53:29will need to give Virgin and Stagecoach a direct award on the
3:53:29 > 3:53:33east coast because he won't be able to deliver on his East Coast
3:53:33 > 3:53:37partnership by 2020. It is simply inconceivable that he will be able
3:53:37 > 3:53:43to establish a framework, gain regulatory support, but the idea out
3:53:43 > 3:53:47to tender, receive bids and evaluate bids and award the contract within
3:53:47 > 3:53:54the time frame he has set out. A direct award to Virgin Stagecoach on
3:53:54 > 3:53:57the east coast will allow the companies to continue to profit from
3:53:57 > 3:54:01the line while they invest even less. Once again the Secretary of
3:54:01 > 3:54:05State needs to be entirely candid with this House. Does he or does he
3:54:05 > 3:54:12not anticipate giving Virgin Stagecoach a direct award to run
3:54:12 > 3:54:19rail operations on the east Coast? While he sets out the East Coast
3:54:19 > 3:54:22partnership, can he confirmed that will take place? If he does, can he
3:54:22 > 3:54:25tell the House how much less the value of the premiums to the
3:54:25 > 3:54:30Treasury would be under this arrangement compared to the original
3:54:30 > 3:54:34franchise? So, what is the Secretary of State's solution to his failing
3:54:34 > 3:54:39franchising model as competition dwindles and premiums to the
3:54:39 > 3:54:44Exchequer reduce? It's quite simple, more taxpayer and fair pay support
3:54:44 > 3:54:49for train operating companies. The next franchises to come up our South
3:54:49 > 3:54:54and West Coast. Under his new revenue support arrangements
3:54:54 > 3:54:59taxpayers will top up revenues if growth targets are not met. What's
3:54:59 > 3:55:06the point of franchising if the operators don't take any risk? In
3:55:06 > 3:55:12return, the Government will want close financial monitoring of the
3:55:12 > 3:55:16operators. Do we really want civil servants in Marsham Street poring
3:55:16 > 3:55:20over train company balance sheets? Isn't there enough DfT interference
3:55:20 > 3:55:28in the railway already? Rail privatisation's vested interests
3:55:28 > 3:55:36have spent over 20 years to try to get franchising to work, despite the
3:55:36 > 3:55:40government changing and tweaking the system time after time all they have
3:55:40 > 3:55:44done in return is to reveal evermore new sorts of failure, whilst the
3:55:44 > 3:55:49public continue to suffer substandard services and ever higher
3:55:49 > 3:55:54services. Madam Deputy Speaker, enough is enough of that and we need
3:55:54 > 3:56:00to change the system entirely.
3:56:00 > 3:56:04Butthe question is as on the order paper. Secretary of State, Chris
3:56:04 > 3:56:09Grayling.Can I start with the one thing that we will agree on this
3:56:09 > 3:56:14afternoon, can I thank the right honourable gentleman for his
3:56:14 > 3:56:17generous comments about the member of the south Holland, he has been a
3:56:17 > 3:56:21great servant to both my department and other departments over a long
3:56:21 > 3:56:24period of time, 19 years on the front bench in both Government and
3:56:24 > 3:56:28opposition. That is an epic career. I think we will very much appreciate
3:56:28 > 3:56:33the work he has done, particularly the wiki is done in legislation
3:56:33 > 3:56:39building discussions. I will really pay tribute and I thank the man
3:56:39 > 3:56:48wants. Apart from that we have just heard complete nonsense from the
3:56:48 > 3:56:52party opposite. It might be unparliamentary of me to call them
3:56:52 > 3:56:59hypocritical, but I went personally calling hit -- hypocritical, that
3:56:59 > 3:57:02I'm astonished at the call that they forget their actions in Government.
3:57:02 > 3:57:07A tender ideas when cost a penny, that is absolutely untrue. And the
3:57:07 > 3:57:12inaccurate claims they make on the lack of facts on subjects they
3:57:12 > 3:57:17appear not to understand. Let me set out why their ideas simply don't
3:57:17 > 3:57:21stack up, wider positions do not add up. I'm going to make a few comments
3:57:21 > 3:57:24and then I will take interventions. Let me also set out why their
3:57:24 > 3:57:28policies make note sense for the travelling public and why I do need
3:57:28 > 3:57:31to make clear that their pronouncements on the east coast
3:57:31 > 3:57:35mainline are wrong. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, let me also set out
3:57:35 > 3:57:39why it is this Government that has set about the task of modernising
3:57:39 > 3:57:43upgrading our row ways in the biggest reinvestment since the steam
3:57:43 > 3:57:49age. When the Labour Government quite simply failed to deliver the
3:57:49 > 3:57:51restructuring improvements this country needed. It is taking
3:57:51 > 3:57:59Conservatives to begin to change that. I do not like to see train
3:57:59 > 3:58:07fares rise. I particularly like, as a rail user of 35 years, to see
3:58:07 > 3:58:10fares rise by nearly 20% in real terms dream Labour's years in
3:58:10 > 3:58:22office. I did my like -- did not like to see them rose by 37%. We
3:58:22 > 3:58:26have been able to limit the real increase in train fares in 2% in
3:58:26 > 3:58:31real terms since 20 town even while we invest billions in upgrading the
3:58:31 > 3:58:38network. More than I wish, but much less than they did in office, and
3:58:38 > 3:58:42and that he was simply unwilling to answer the correct question from my
3:58:42 > 3:58:46honourable friend over there, under Labour, fares rose much, much faster
3:58:46 > 3:58:51than under this Government. But that does not make it any easier for
3:58:51 > 3:58:55those who faced increases last week. I had hoped to be able to bring down
3:58:55 > 3:59:00the rate of increase with a higher RPI rate to the lower CPI rate this
3:59:00 > 3:59:04year. That remains my goal. But there is a problem. This is an
3:59:04 > 3:59:11industry that looked into the RPI and has done for years. The biggest
3:59:11 > 3:59:14barriers to change other unions whose members pay almost a third of
3:59:14 > 3:59:20the cost of the industry, and currently there pay rises in line,
3:59:20 > 3:59:25or about RPI inflation every single year. I will give way...Thank you
3:59:25 > 3:59:33for giving way. The very recent report from the NA oh, said some the
3:59:33 > 3:59:35problems could be avoided if the Department for Transport had taken
3:59:35 > 3:59:43more care to consider the passengers deciding the rail franchise. Would
3:59:43 > 3:59:45you recognise that particular statement and do you apologise to
3:59:45 > 3:59:50the passengers?The honourable gentleman is not asking the
3:59:50 > 3:59:56Secretary of State, he is asking the chair, the Secretary of State
3:59:56 > 4:00:00through the chair... Yes please. Through the chair, would I like to
4:00:00 > 4:00:05ask the Secretary of State, with the Secretary of State recognise that
4:00:05 > 4:00:13severe criticism from the head of the NAO and would he apologise on
4:00:13 > 4:00:15the heart of my constituents and rail passengers across the
4:00:15 > 4:00:20south-east.What I make no apologies for is the huge investment programme
4:00:20 > 4:00:24in the Thames Link network, the massive expansion of London Bridge
4:00:24 > 4:00:27station which has just been completed. The introduction of
4:00:27 > 4:00:31brand-new 12 coach trains across the network. What I do apologise for is
4:00:31 > 4:00:37that we were not able to avoid the extraordinarily ill judged actions
4:00:37 > 4:00:43by the trade unions who caused massive trouble for passengers. The
4:00:43 > 4:00:47honourable gentleman talks about the imp report there was a simple
4:00:47 > 4:00:50conclusion, or they will though there were problems on this network,
4:00:50 > 4:00:54that is why we are spinning £300 million on improving, it is why
4:00:54 > 4:01:00Chris Gibb said that by far the biggest disruptive factor on this
4:01:00 > 4:01:04network was the trade unions. Of course, we want to see rail are paid
4:01:04 > 4:01:08fairly. A trade union leaders are driving up ticket prices are
4:01:08 > 4:01:14hard-working people. The same unions who want CPI increases for their
4:01:14 > 4:01:17fares, want RPI... The honourable member should listen to this. The
4:01:17 > 4:01:21guidance to its negotiators from the RMT, is that any attempt by an
4:01:21 > 4:01:26employer to link a pay award to CPI must be refused. So, he wants bigger
4:01:26 > 4:01:30rises for his members, love arises the passengers, where is the money
4:01:30 > 4:01:34coming from? It does not add up, the Labour policy does not add up, the
4:01:34 > 4:01:38union policy does not add up, of course you will remember, who pays
4:01:38 > 4:01:43the Bill for the Labour Party. Even this shadow Secretary of State has
4:01:43 > 4:01:46had contributions financially from the RMT. They are in the pockets of
4:01:46 > 4:01:51the trade unions and that is only not acceptable. I will give regular
4:01:51 > 4:01:56shadow Secretary of State.He is making a point, I know it is taking
4:01:56 > 4:01:59100 years for the party opposite to understand this, but we are the
4:01:59 > 4:02:02Labour and trade union movement, he needs to get that understood. I tell
4:02:02 > 4:02:07you what, it is the cleanest money in politics. I would rather take
4:02:07 > 4:02:14from trade unions, rather than hedge fund managers and... By Mackie is
4:02:14 > 4:02:19bankrolled by the people who are disrupting parts of this network
4:02:19 > 4:02:25inappropriately. By people who are driven politically,disrupting for
4:02:25 > 4:02:28political purposes. They should design the unions and their current
4:02:28 > 4:02:33action, his conduct on this is not acceptable. A giveaway...Thank you
4:02:33 > 4:02:38for giving way. Can I do say to him, as I walked through, on my daily
4:02:38 > 4:02:42commute, as I know he does, through London Bridge station where there
4:02:42 > 4:02:45have been a lot of difficulties for me and my constituents travelling,
4:02:45 > 4:02:51that is now an absolute temple for travel. Can we talk positively about
4:02:51 > 4:02:59our rail system and not just knock it?Point of order Mr MacDonald.I
4:02:59 > 4:03:03don't know if you heard what I heard, but I think I have been
4:03:03 > 4:03:06accused of unacceptable behaviour, and I think needs to be clarified. I
4:03:06 > 4:03:10have tried to conduct myself with all civility and proprietary and to
4:03:10 > 4:03:17hear that from the Secretary of State is regrettable. I seek your
4:03:17 > 4:03:20guidance.The Secretary of State did use a phrase using the word
4:03:20 > 4:03:24unacceptable, and it might be busy Secretary of State might like to
4:03:24 > 4:03:30repeat the meaning of what he wished to say in slightly different words,
4:03:30 > 4:03:33because the honourable gentleman, the shadow Secretary of State, does
4:03:33 > 4:03:38have a point about the precise use of words in the scandal.What I
4:03:38 > 4:03:42think is unacceptable is to defend inappropriate strike action around
4:03:42 > 4:03:46this country by people who should not be disrupting the lives of
4:03:46 > 4:03:49passengers. I wait with interest to hear anyone in the party opposite
4:03:49 > 4:03:54say, the strikes are wrong. Sadly, I have not heard that, and I have not
4:03:54 > 4:04:00heard of 18 months. I wait patiently. Well, it uses his
4:04:00 > 4:04:03position is about safety, even though the safety regulatory
4:04:03 > 4:04:08authority says it is not. That, I'm afraid, is the shame. I will give
4:04:08 > 4:04:12way.I thank the Secretary of State for giving way. I wonder if he could
4:04:12 > 4:04:19tell us why is the RMT have been able to negotiate successfully both
4:04:19 > 4:04:23in Scotland and in Wales, the whole question which is very concerning to
4:04:23 > 4:04:28the public, of driver only trains. And yet, we cannot get that here in
4:04:28 > 4:04:34England. Is it something to do with the Secretary of State?Driver only
4:04:34 > 4:04:38trains have been operating in this country for 30 years. The ASL EF
4:04:38 > 4:04:46union had breached a perfectly acceptable agreement, about the
4:04:46 > 4:04:49redevelopment of new train technologies, and today, as we stay
4:04:49 > 4:04:55here, the RMT is striking on Southwest rally, even though they
4:04:55 > 4:04:58are saying they won't take a second person of the train. That is an
4:04:58 > 4:05:04absurd position. She will remember, the comment made by the national
4:05:04 > 4:05:07President of the RMT, what they are really try to do is create a
4:05:07 > 4:05:10national rail strike and bring down the Government. That is my consent,
4:05:10 > 4:05:15it is not about passengers, it is about political motivation and that
4:05:15 > 4:05:21is not acceptable. That is not my concern --.I have sat here and
4:05:21 > 4:05:25watched him chuckle and smile as my honourable friend was making his
4:05:25 > 4:05:31contribution. My constituents have been suffering from the most
4:05:31 > 4:05:35dreadful services from Southern and also tends them. I can tell him that
4:05:35 > 4:05:40that is no laughing matter. He refers to industrial action. This
4:05:40 > 4:05:44NAO report is clear. His department did not check if GTR had enough
4:05:44 > 4:05:49drivers. His department did not have a proper understanding of the
4:05:49 > 4:05:52condition of the network when it was setting the conditions of the
4:05:52 > 4:05:57franchise. It is absolutely clear in this report, it says the cumulative
4:05:57 > 4:06:03effects of the decisions made by his department had negatively impacted
4:06:03 > 4:06:07on passengers. He can talk about industrial action all he wants. When
4:06:07 > 4:06:11is this Secretary of State going to accept responsibility, as an
4:06:11 > 4:06:15honourable member just in mind, apologise to our constituents for
4:06:15 > 4:06:19the dreadful misery they have been suffering?With the absolutely
4:06:19 > 4:06:22clear. I have been Secretary of State for 18 months. Let's be clear
4:06:22 > 4:06:26what I have done. There are another pod is on this network, I've never
4:06:26 > 4:06:29made any attempt to hide that. The infrastructure is not good enough,
4:06:29 > 4:06:33that is why we have launched an immediate £300 million programme to
4:06:33 > 4:06:36upgrade some of the areas of the network that are failing to often.
4:06:36 > 4:06:42That is why we have change the ways of working, why I asked Christians
4:06:42 > 4:06:45to going to bring together the operation of track and train on a
4:06:45 > 4:06:53daily basis on a daily basis. -- Chris Gibb. Brand-new trains coming
4:06:53 > 4:06:58through his constituency, but what Chris Gibb, that everybody has
4:06:58 > 4:07:01rightly said, it is a well-regarded independent figure, what he said is
4:07:01 > 4:07:07above all the disruption that was caused his his constituents, the
4:07:07 > 4:07:11unacceptable disruption, was caused by the trade unions. They party
4:07:11 > 4:07:15demanded, the publication of Chris Gibb's report, it was published and
4:07:15 > 4:07:18that is what it said. They may not like it but that is what it said. I
4:07:18 > 4:07:24will give way.This could turn into a really good debate on the future
4:07:24 > 4:07:33of the rail industry. He is making a bit too partisan. Could we not
4:07:33 > 4:07:39return to what everybody knows is the problem, the quality of
4:07:39 > 4:07:42management and the broken franchising system. Will he get onto
4:07:42 > 4:07:47that? Because it is across the House that we all know there is a serious
4:07:47 > 4:07:51column of management and the franchising system.The bid them
4:07:51 > 4:07:56scratch macro biggest problem we have is that we have not had enough
4:07:56 > 4:07:59new chains and not enough investment. That is why it is right
4:07:59 > 4:08:04and proper that this Government is spending more than the steam age on
4:08:04 > 4:08:07infrastructure, why we have more trains being introduced right across
4:08:07 > 4:08:09the country. We are seeing new trains on the great Western roots,
4:08:09 > 4:08:14on the east coast mainline, new trends in the zero. Every single
4:08:14 > 4:08:19change in the north of England is being replaced or as new. A
4:08:19 > 4:08:23programme of transition that has not been seen for decades and decades
4:08:23 > 4:08:28and decades. That is what the railway really needs. I will give
4:08:28 > 4:08:32way.New chains on Southwest and railways. The problem is that the
4:08:32 > 4:08:37new trains are designed to have the doors opened by the driver. Railway
4:08:37 > 4:08:44has guaranteed to schedule two members of staff, continue to have a
4:08:44 > 4:08:48guard on every train. And now comes down to the ridiculous argument of
4:08:48 > 4:08:53which of them opens the doors. Madam Deputy Speaker, I remember when we
4:08:53 > 4:09:01used to be able to open the doors ourselves! My honourable friend is
4:09:01 > 4:09:03absolutely right. This is a completely pointless strike. This is
4:09:03 > 4:09:09what frustrates me. The honourable gentleman opposite, with whom I
4:09:09 > 4:09:13normally have a good relationship, but it frustrates me that he will
4:09:13 > 4:09:16not stand up and say to the unions, why will you not stop this action?
4:09:16 > 4:09:21We have been very clear on south-western Railway, the second
4:09:21 > 4:09:25member of staff is staying on the train. On Southern, there are today
4:09:25 > 4:09:30more member of staff is working on trains than there were before the
4:09:30 > 4:09:35industrial started. Why on earth is carrying on Chris Hackett is wrong.
4:09:37 > 4:09:44I will take one war intervention and make progress.I'm grateful, he may
4:09:44 > 4:09:51not actually be able to give me this answer at the moment, but perhaps he
4:09:51 > 4:09:55could use it later on today. Could you give us an indication on how
4:09:55 > 4:10:00much investment is taking place between 2010 and 2020 on new
4:10:00 > 4:10:05infrastructure, new railway carriages. Can he compare that with
4:10:05 > 4:10:11the kind of investment that took place between 1997 and 2010?I
4:10:11 > 4:10:17cannot give the exact numbers, but we are investing tens of billions of
4:10:17 > 4:10:21pounds in the realm ways over the period that my right honourable
4:10:21 > 4:10:25friend talks about. And, crucially, the private sector that the party
4:10:25 > 4:10:29opposite seems to dislike so much, is also investing billions of pounds
4:10:29 > 4:10:34in those new trains. The new trains arriving on all parts of the network
4:10:34 > 4:10:39right now, I not being funded by Government, but are being funded by
4:10:39 > 4:10:42the private sector. This is the key flaw in their arguments. That,
4:10:42 > 4:10:45actually, if we get rid of the private sector in the rail network
4:10:45 > 4:10:50they will not be any new trains. Actually, it is billions of pounds
4:10:50 > 4:10:53coming from elsewhere. That is money that comes otherwise from the
4:10:53 > 4:10:56Treasury, it is money that has to compete with schools, complete with
4:10:56 > 4:11:02hospitals. What we are doing, through the public and private
4:11:02 > 4:11:06organisations that work side by a railway, we are delivering a huge
4:11:06 > 4:11:10infrastructure development programme at the same time we're delivering a
4:11:10 > 4:11:13transformation of our rolling stock. I will take more one or
4:11:13 > 4:11:17intervention.
4:11:17 > 4:11:19It is an interesting concept that the travelling public have a good
4:11:19 > 4:11:23deal paid for by the private train operating companies. I checked what
4:11:23 > 4:11:28it would cost me if I left the House of Commons and went to Durham at the
4:11:28 > 4:11:35moment. It would cost me £153 standard class, 236 first-class but
4:11:35 > 4:11:39of course we're not allowed to do that. A similar journey at the same
4:11:39 > 4:11:46time of day from Frankfurt to Munich in Germany would cost £39 and two p.
4:11:46 > 4:11:49How is it our travelling public are getting a good deal from this
4:11:49 > 4:11:56fragmented privatised system?In this country we have taken under
4:11:56 > 4:11:58governments of both persuasions decisions about the right balance
4:11:58 > 4:12:01between the cost of the railways being borne by those who use the
4:12:01 > 4:12:06railways and those who don't use the railways. The reality is that, yes,
4:12:06 > 4:12:11you may be quoting fares but he can buy an advanced ticket for the East
4:12:11 > 4:12:14Coast route that is a faction of the cost he has just described. Madam
4:12:14 > 4:12:19Deputy Speaker, I will make some progress now -- a fraction of the
4:12:19 > 4:12:24cost. The Shadow Secretary of State asked a variety of questions about
4:12:24 > 4:12:29the East Coast Main line and I want to respond to that. The reality is
4:12:29 > 4:12:32sometimes the private companies get it wrong, the situation on the East
4:12:32 > 4:12:36Coast franchise is a clear example, virgin and Stagecoach overbid and
4:12:36 > 4:12:41they are and they will pay the price. They will pay the price. I've
4:12:41 > 4:12:44listened with interest to some of the uninformed comments about the
4:12:44 > 4:12:47situation on the East coast of the last few weeks and heard absurd
4:12:47 > 4:12:49claims from those who don't understand what they are talking
4:12:49 > 4:12:53about so let me explain to the House this afternoon what the position is.
4:12:53 > 4:12:56I'm not agreeing to an early termination of the contract in 2020
4:12:56 > 4:13:00and nobody has asked me to. This railway is paying a huge premium to
4:13:00 > 4:13:05the taxpayer and continues to do so. The issue is that this franchise is
4:13:05 > 4:13:09not delivering the profits the operator expected and is at risk of
4:13:09 > 4:13:16not making it as far as 2020. I'm going to explain this in detail,
4:13:16 > 4:13:23forgive me. Passenger numbers are rising on this railway. Customer
4:13:23 > 4:13:26satisfaction is up. The line is generating a healthy and growing
4:13:26 > 4:13:30operating surplus, which is providing a much greater return to
4:13:30 > 4:13:34the taxpayer than it was in the public sector. It is also worth
4:13:34 > 4:13:39saying it is running more services and its employing more staff. The
4:13:39 > 4:13:42money that the franchise pays to the government is today 20% higher than
4:13:42 > 4:13:48it was under public ownership. But virgin and Stagecoach got the
4:13:48 > 4:13:51numbers wrong. They've been losing money steadily and have now lost the
4:13:51 > 4:13:56best part of £200 million over the last three years. Despite that I am
4:13:56 > 4:14:01holding them to their full financial obligations taking every last penny
4:14:01 > 4:14:05of the £165 million guarantee we insisted upon when they took on the
4:14:05 > 4:14:09franchise. That is a huge sum of money. I'm going to finish and will
4:14:09 > 4:14:13then take interventions. That is a huge sum of money or a British
4:14:13 > 4:14:15business with a market capitalisation of under £1 billion
4:14:15 > 4:14:19and also one of the biggest bombs of its kind ever provided in the rail
4:14:19 > 4:14:23industry. Despite the claims of the party opposite this isn't a bailout.
4:14:23 > 4:14:27There is no viable legal mechanism through which I can extract any more
4:14:27 > 4:14:30money from them. My department is preparing contingency plans as we do
4:14:30 > 4:14:38not believe the franchise will be financially viable through to 2020.
4:14:38 > 4:14:41When we reach a conclusion to that work I will come back to this House
4:14:41 > 4:14:44and make a statement. But I do intend to go ahead with the East
4:14:44 > 4:14:48Coast partnership as I indicated in my statement a month ago. People in
4:14:48 > 4:14:51this country do not understand the separation of track and train, as
4:14:51 > 4:14:57part of our reforms we are bringing the two together as Sir Roy McNulty
4:14:57 > 4:15:00indicated in his report.I'm grateful to the Secretary of State.
4:15:00 > 4:15:03Can he make it clear, he's talking about the parent company guaranteed
4:15:03 > 4:15:10and that will be paid. What about the premium payments from 2020 -
4:15:10 > 4:15:172023? They amount to £2 billion. Are the company going to pay those
4:15:17 > 4:15:21premiums, or are they not?What I've just said to him is that currently
4:15:21 > 4:15:26we are not convinced the franchise will make it as far as 2020, so we
4:15:26 > 4:15:31will put in place alternative arrangements. However, however, he
4:15:31 > 4:15:35clearly wasn't listening to what I was saying. However, this railway
4:15:35 > 4:15:39will continue to deliver a substantial operating surplus,
4:15:39 > 4:15:43premium to the taxpayer, whatever the situation. Whatever happens,
4:15:43 > 4:15:46this railway will continue to deliver large sums of money to the
4:15:46 > 4:15:52taxpayer will stop I will give way. Thank you, Secretary of State for
4:15:52 > 4:15:54stuff if I heard him correctly, I think he was confirming the article
4:15:54 > 4:16:02that was in the Sunday Times, which said the full contract, as it was
4:16:02 > 4:16:07led, was not legally enforceable. If that is the case, can he confirm it
4:16:07 > 4:16:10and explain to the House why he agreed a contract that wasn't
4:16:10 > 4:16:16legally enforceable? And if that's not true, why doesn't he demand the
4:16:16 > 4:16:21full 2 billion?I think the honourable gentleman hasn't
4:16:21 > 4:16:24understood the finances of the rail industry? The money the taxpayer
4:16:24 > 4:16:30receives from the operating profits, of which the taxpayer receives the
4:16:30 > 4:16:33lion's share, will continue to flow into the public coffers whatever
4:16:33 > 4:16:38happens. The contract that was left between virgin Stagecoach and the
4:16:38 > 4:16:43government will be fully enforced, will be fully enforced. Absolutely
4:16:43 > 4:16:47commit to the House that is what will happen. Madam Deputy Speaker,
4:16:47 > 4:16:51I'm going to make some further progress. What we've heard this
4:16:51 > 4:16:55afternoon, and actually we have heard it more explicitly than
4:16:55 > 4:17:00before, Labour's policy is to return to the days of British rail, somehow
4:17:00 > 4:17:04there is an idea that this will bring Nirvana with it. It only takes
4:17:04 > 4:17:08a moment of thought to realise how flawed their thinking is, assuming
4:17:08 > 4:17:11they have done me thinking about this in the first place because our
4:17:11 > 4:17:15network suffers from three main problems. The infrastructure, which
4:17:15 > 4:17:18is already running the public sector, something they forget, is
4:17:18 > 4:17:21often old and unreliable, something like two thirds of the problems on
4:17:21 > 4:17:27our railway network come as a result of the issues on the public run
4:17:27 > 4:17:32infrastructure. So the issue is not about who runs it or who owns it,
4:17:32 > 4:17:35it's about investment in the infrastructure, and that's why I'm
4:17:35 > 4:17:39pleased to have just announced a further £20 billion renewal
4:17:39 > 4:17:42programme for infrastructure concentrating on replacing older
4:17:42 > 4:17:46points and signals and upgrading systems so we have a more reliable
4:17:46 > 4:17:49railway. Problem number one, solution number one. The second
4:17:49 > 4:17:53issue, the system is heavily congested. It wouldn't matter who
4:17:53 > 4:17:57was running the railway, routes into places like London Waterloo,
4:17:57 > 4:18:01Manchester Piccadilly, would still be full. What those stations and
4:18:01 > 4:18:05roots need is longer trains, and that is why the private sector,
4:18:05 > 4:18:09supported by government, is investing in those longer trains all
4:18:09 > 4:18:12around the country, Manchester, around London and the West Country
4:18:12 > 4:18:17and West Midlands. That's the next priority. We probably have the
4:18:17 > 4:18:20biggest renewal programme of rolling stock taking place at the moment in
4:18:20 > 4:18:23modern times, certainly by far the biggest in Europe and this is what
4:18:23 > 4:18:27is necessary. If you are on an eight coach training the mind that is full
4:18:27 > 4:18:31what you need in the morning is a ten coach train, that's what we're
4:18:31 > 4:18:34doing. We are expanding capacity on routes like Thames Link to make a
4:18:34 > 4:18:38difference in the centre of London and in Manchester there will be
4:18:38 > 4:18:42linkage across the city to create extra capacity on the trans-Pennine
4:18:42 > 4:18:47routes. Thirdly, the system is organisationally too fragmented, too
4:18:47 > 4:18:51many people debating with each other rather than solving problems for
4:18:51 > 4:18:53passengers, which is why our strategy is to bring back delivered
4:18:53 > 4:18:57the day-to-day operation of the track and trains. Those are the
4:18:57 > 4:19:01three challenges that the rail network faces today and that's why
4:19:01 > 4:19:04passengers are often frustrated, those are problems we are working to
4:19:04 > 4:19:09address and why we have solutions to address them and investment in
4:19:09 > 4:19:14solving them. Renationalisation and shifting things around will not
4:19:14 > 4:19:16solve those problems. Let's concentrate on the things that make
4:19:16 > 4:19:20the difference to the passengers and not on moving deckchairs, as Labour
4:19:20 > 4:19:27seem to want.I thank the Secretary of State for giving way. Would you
4:19:27 > 4:19:30bet the House on his discussions with the Welsh government on
4:19:30 > 4:19:33devolving responsibility for the franchise in Wales? We are halfway
4:19:33 > 4:19:36through the bidding process the Welsh government is conducting, the
4:19:36 > 4:19:39powers remain in Westminster despite the promises of the British
4:19:39 > 4:19:43Government to hand them over.That is simply untrue, the riveting of
4:19:43 > 4:19:47the Wales and the Borders franchises is being handled entirely by the
4:19:47 > 4:19:50Welsh government and the question is will they deliver their promises, to
4:19:50 > 4:19:57deliver their promises to electrify the Cardiff Valley lines, which I've
4:19:57 > 4:20:01given them the opportunity to create an integrated metro railway for
4:20:01 > 4:20:04Cardiff. I'll be interested to see if they can deliver what they have
4:20:04 > 4:20:07promised. They have control of the Wales and Borders franchises, the
4:20:07 > 4:20:09only power I have retained is to look after the interests of those
4:20:09 > 4:20:15people on the English side of the border, so he's not right on that.
4:20:15 > 4:20:20As he has mentioned this, as he looked at the proposals of Professor
4:20:20 > 4:20:23Mark Barry to have an electrify Swansea Metro that also reduces the
4:20:23 > 4:20:31time from Cardiff to Swansea in half by straightening the line, which
4:20:31 > 4:20:34would provide the electrification David Cameron promised and an
4:20:34 > 4:20:38integrated Swansea Metro and a shorter journey time?What I would
4:20:38 > 4:20:45say to him is I think it's more likely than not that what we will
4:20:45 > 4:20:48see on the Welsh Valley lines on the Cardiff Metro lines is the same
4:20:48 > 4:20:52approach I have taken in south Wales, of actually using hybrid
4:20:52 > 4:20:54technology rather than electrification. That's what I think
4:20:54 > 4:20:59they are going to do. And of course the honourable gentleman talks about
4:20:59 > 4:21:03dirty diesel from a secondary position. We are seeing new
4:21:03 > 4:21:07technologies that will transform the way our railways work and we will
4:21:07 > 4:21:09see hydrogen trains, a new generation of trains, hybrid trains
4:21:09 > 4:21:13are much cleaner than their predecessors. New technology is
4:21:13 > 4:21:21giving us great versatility. People want to speak so I will conclude.
4:21:21 > 4:21:24What we have heard from the Labour Party today, I'm afraid, is simply a
4:21:24 > 4:21:28position based on sand. They want lower fare rises, they won't tell us
4:21:28 > 4:21:31how they will be paid for because the numbers don't add up and
4:21:31 > 4:21:35actually the irony in London where Labour are in power the fares are
4:21:35 > 4:21:40going up by more than the rest of the country. Whereas by contrast, we
4:21:40 > 4:21:43are addressing the real problems on the rail network, we are providing
4:21:43 > 4:21:47the investment the railways need. Over Christmas and imagined
4:21:47 > 4:21:50disruptions, yes, I know passengers had a disrupted time over Christmas.
4:21:50 > 4:21:55The reason why is because we are spending billions of pounds across
4:21:55 > 4:21:58the country and at some point the work has got to be done. What those
4:21:58 > 4:22:01people who are walking to London Bridge station in the mornings will
4:22:01 > 4:22:12see is those people who have travelled to the north-west will
4:22:12 > 4:22:17see, is expanded services and improvements.Technology and
4:22:17 > 4:22:21investment will make a huge difference. Willie confirmed that
4:22:21 > 4:22:24modern digital signalling will allow the railway to run many more trains
4:22:24 > 4:22:27on on the same piece of track and that could be the cheapest and best
4:22:27 > 4:22:31way of dealing with the bottlenecks? My Right Honourable friend is
4:22:31 > 4:22:34absolutely right. We are already seeing Kemsley will use digital
4:22:34 > 4:22:38signalling in a way that has never happened before in this country, we
4:22:38 > 4:22:41will use digital signalling and the improvements on the trans-Pennine
4:22:41 > 4:22:44route and elsewhere. This is a government investing in the railway.
4:22:44 > 4:22:48This is a party that believes in the railways and understands the need to
4:22:48 > 4:22:52expand capacity in the railways. We have not done enough for much too
4:22:52 > 4:22:55long. In the years since privatisation passenger numbers have
4:22:55 > 4:22:59grown and grown after the years of decline in the years of British
4:22:59 > 4:23:03rail, so the pressures have increased, so the need to invest has
4:23:03 > 4:23:06increased, so the challenge has increased, and that's why we are
4:23:06 > 4:23:09spending billions on the infrastructure, building stations
4:23:09 > 4:23:15like London Bridge, Crossrail, replacing every train in the North
4:23:15 > 4:23:19of England and why we are acting in a way that in 30 years of power the
4:23:19 > 4:23:24party opposite never did. SPEAKER: Before I called a spokesman for the
4:23:24 > 4:23:29Scottish National Party it will be obvious that a great many people
4:23:29 > 4:23:33wish to speak this afternoon and that we have limited time left. It
4:23:33 > 4:23:38should be noted that a great many people also intervened on the two
4:23:38 > 4:23:43front bench speeches. The Right Honourable gentleman concerned were
4:23:43 > 4:23:48very generous with their time. But members must take responsibility.
4:23:48 > 4:23:53You can all sit down. They must take responsibility for the amount of
4:23:53 > 4:23:57time that their interventions take up, and that is noted by the chair,
4:23:57 > 4:24:05and therefore we will have an initial time limit of four minutes.
4:24:05 > 4:24:07But I do not dissipate that everyone who has indicated to me that they
4:24:07 > 4:24:10wish to speak will have an opportunity to do so because there
4:24:10 > 4:24:17simply isn't enough time. Mr Alan Brown.Thank you, Madam Deputy
4:24:17 > 4:24:21Speaker, a belated happy New Year to you. I would also like to
4:24:21 > 4:24:24congratulate and welcomed the new ministers to the front bench and pay
4:24:24 > 4:24:28tribute to the work of the previous Minister, he certainly knew how to
4:24:28 > 4:24:32conduct himself at the dispatch box and I think the Secretary of State
4:24:32 > 4:24:40should think on that in terms of how he conducts himself. He stood up and
4:24:40 > 4:24:43spoke for 18 minutes doing union bashing before he went on to
4:24:43 > 4:24:49anything of any substantive point. Madding Deputy Speaker, let me also
4:24:49 > 4:24:53be the first in the chamber to congratulate Virgin Rail and I want
4:24:53 > 4:24:56to congratulate them on their recent decision they made, which was to
4:24:56 > 4:25:00stop selling the Daily Mail on their west coast route. I hope further
4:25:00 > 4:25:03outlets will follow suit and I'm sure many people would agree in the
4:25:03 > 4:25:07chamber. It is probably going to be the last condiment I paid Virgin
4:25:07 > 4:25:12Rail but I'd like to put on record and commend the hard work of the
4:25:12 > 4:25:16staff that work for Virgin, I encounter these staff on a fairly
4:25:16 > 4:25:19regular basis on the West Coast route and I can pay testament to
4:25:19 > 4:25:24their professionalism and hard work. Madding Deputy Speaker, this motion
4:25:24 > 4:25:29covers rail franchise in general and the bailout of the virgin east coast
4:25:29 > 4:25:33in particular. It's fair to say there are opposite views across the
4:25:33 > 4:25:36chamber on the merits of privatisation and franchising and we
4:25:36 > 4:25:39have already seen that from exchanges. One thing I'm confident
4:25:39 > 4:25:43about is the Transport Secretary wrongly connecting cause and effect
4:25:43 > 4:25:47when it comes to the privatisation of the railway. It can be argued and
4:25:47 > 4:25:52has been argued that British rail was struggling and it had poured
4:25:52 > 4:25:55rolling stock and was outdated but that is only half of the picture.
4:25:55 > 4:25:58Any underinvestment in British rail in rolling stock was due to
4:25:58 > 4:26:02government constraints. Passenger numbers were also affected by the
4:26:02 > 4:26:07recession, both in terms of commuters having jobs, of course,
4:26:07 > 4:26:13affordability. Their spending power and investment was also further
4:26:13 > 4:26:15hampered because of upgrades required following the Clapham rail
4:26:15 > 4:26:20crash in 1980 on the upgrade is required in order to service the
4:26:20 > 4:26:24Channel Tunnel links. That, Madam Deputy Speaker, was yet another
4:26:24 > 4:26:26example of the investment in the south-east of England to the
4:26:26 > 4:26:32detriment of the United Kingdom. We know that these problems in British
4:26:32 > 4:26:35Rail in terms of the John Major government, their attitude was to
4:26:35 > 4:26:40privatise it and sell it off. They did this at such a pace that there
4:26:40 > 4:26:44was no co-ordinated or strategic approach. If you look at the history
4:26:44 > 4:26:48of this, it shows us that privatisation Russia gave us rail
4:26:48 > 4:26:53track that eventually went bust and was replaced by Network Rail, and if
4:26:53 > 4:26:56ever there was an example that infrastructure is best owned and
4:26:56 > 4:26:59managed in the public sector to avoid profit before safety then
4:26:59 > 4:27:05that's a prime example. I'm not pretending Network Rail is currently
4:27:05 > 4:27:08operating as efficiently as it can be but it does not put profit before
4:27:08 > 4:27:13safety.
4:27:13 > 4:27:17They also gave as a model that the countries of Great Britain were also
4:27:17 > 4:27:26the ones completely divestedof passenger operations. Given the
4:27:26 > 4:27:29franchising problem since then, this would appear to me to be another
4:27:29 > 4:27:32clear example of the UK Government leading the world, bit leading the
4:27:32 > 4:27:40world in completely the wrong path. But the real privatisation did give
4:27:40 > 4:27:47raises scratch macro ask, was a complex model of interactions,
4:27:47 > 4:27:52convex ticket arrangements and away for companies to play a blame game
4:27:52 > 4:27:57and blame each other for problems. These issues are summed up in the
4:27:57 > 4:28:00National audit report that has come out in terms of southern rails
4:28:00 > 4:28:04franchise. The main conclusions from that report is that it cannot be
4:28:04 > 4:28:08demonstrated that this franchise has delivered value for money. The
4:28:08 > 4:28:12operator blames Network Rail and the unions. The Government blames the
4:28:12 > 4:28:15unions and we heard that again from the dispatch box, and the Government
4:28:15 > 4:28:21ignores their part in all of this. 62% of cancellations were due to
4:28:21 > 4:28:24Thames Link and 40% duty Network Rail. It was the UK Government that
4:28:24 > 4:28:29set up a model that was supposed to align the complex infrastructure
4:28:29 > 4:28:32upgrades, it was the UK Government that at the revenue risk, that
4:28:32 > 4:28:37actually cost the taxpayer money, and the UK Government that awarded
4:28:37 > 4:28:40the franchise on an even high roll-out of driver only operation.
4:28:40 > 4:28:44The UK Government and the Transport Secretary initial unwillingness to
4:28:44 > 4:28:49get involved is absolutely shameful. The NAO report also makes it quite
4:28:49 > 4:28:52clear that the Department for Transport, with the largest
4:28:52 > 4:28:55responsibility in regards to access to network and timetabling pressures
4:28:55 > 4:29:02were ignored. I would also highlight the Department for Transport
4:29:02 > 4:29:04failings Arabic consent going forward giving the lack of
4:29:04 > 4:29:08understanding and the pressures in terms of upgrading the system and
4:29:08 > 4:29:12timetabling. I have concerns that this will impact the West Coast
4:29:12 > 4:29:15franchise and a HS2 award. I would like to ask the minister if this is
4:29:15 > 4:29:22why the invitation to tender has still not been issued and we do not
4:29:22 > 4:29:28know when it will be issued. Other franchise issues have been the
4:29:28 > 4:29:33failed award of the West Coast franchise in 2012, which am quite
4:29:33 > 4:29:36sure, had virgin actually won that award, they would have taken it at
4:29:36 > 4:29:41the time rather than threatening court action. That already led to
4:29:41 > 4:29:45direct awards, and contrary to library briefing, 1216 franchises
4:29:45 > 4:29:50has now been subject to direct awards. Therefore, further failures
4:29:50 > 4:29:53of the Department for Transport means that these direct awards
4:29:53 > 4:29:58gathers the worst both worlds. There is no competition, there is no
4:29:58 > 4:30:02incentive for long-term investment, yet the companies are still
4:30:02 > 4:30:08guaranteed to make money. That really is a poor setup.The direct
4:30:08 > 4:30:11awards at the West Coast franchise, according to the House of Commons
4:30:11 > 4:30:17briefing from the library, mentions a commitment to work to remodel the
4:30:17 > 4:30:22junction they see as a significant bottleneck on the network. Anybody
4:30:22 > 4:30:27on a network would know that that is time that could make the journey
4:30:27 > 4:30:31more attractive. Would you agree that we need more investment is the
4:30:31 > 4:30:35bottlenecks improved?I thank my honourable friend for that
4:30:35 > 4:30:43intervention and I certainly agree with her, the Carstairs Junction is
4:30:43 > 4:30:46a potential blockage that HS2. Hopefully they managed to listen to
4:30:46 > 4:30:50that intervention and can explain why the remodelling and why that is
4:30:50 > 4:31:00not happened yet.I wonder whether he and his party have considered at
4:31:00 > 4:31:03a told a recent report, 18 months ago, from the competition markets
4:31:03 > 4:31:10authority, calling for greater on track competition, but within
4:31:10 > 4:31:14franchises, as an alternative to the increasing allocation of monopolies
4:31:14 > 4:31:16through franchising as an alternative approach to franchising
4:31:16 > 4:31:22instead.I am not against competition per se, and there is
4:31:22 > 4:31:25lots of information on models which are deemed to work better than
4:31:25 > 4:31:30others. But, certainly one aspect I would say of competition, the public
4:31:30 > 4:31:33sector should be allowed to make their own bids, and the public
4:31:33 > 4:31:36sector should be allowed to operate franchises. A bit of competition
4:31:36 > 4:31:43might do well to drive innovation, but in no way should the public
4:31:43 > 4:31:50sector be barred from that competition. Moving on, we then have
4:31:50 > 4:31:53the shambles on the east coast line. The Transport Secretary stood there
4:31:53 > 4:32:00again and said there is no bailout. The response was that claiming the
4:32:00 > 4:32:03parent companies will protect the taxpayer. We now have the
4:32:03 > 4:32:08confirmation that the franchise were back loaded, so Virgin are able to
4:32:08 > 4:32:12work away without being able to pay the £2 billion track fees they are
4:32:12 > 4:32:15supposed to play and that was confirmed at the dispatch box. The
4:32:15 > 4:32:20Transport Secretary said it is OK because we will get £155 million
4:32:20 > 4:32:27company guarantee. That 155 million is less than £2 billion premium fees
4:32:27 > 4:32:30that the taxpayer would otherwise have received. It is a nonsense
4:32:30 > 4:32:34argument. To say the franchise might have failed is no excuse will stop
4:32:34 > 4:32:37again, that is testament to the failed model that is currently in
4:32:37 > 4:32:42operation with UK Government. The very fact that Stagecoach shares
4:32:42 > 4:32:46went up on the news of the new model proposed by the Transport Secretary,
4:32:46 > 4:32:53says he was walking away with the best deal from the new arrangements.
4:32:53 > 4:32:56The east coast mainline services are proof that public ownership can
4:32:56 > 4:33:00work. The previous franchise failed it was successfully run as a public
4:33:00 > 4:33:05operation. That public operation paid over £1 billion in track rental
4:33:05 > 4:33:10fees to the taxpayer and also returned a nominal profit of £42
4:33:10 > 4:33:13million for an overall operation. That £42 million is something that
4:33:13 > 4:33:19the large private companies would not suffer because they think that
4:33:19 > 4:33:26is too low. But for the public sector, £42 million profit is
4:33:26 > 4:33:29welcome and drives further investment. That is a failure of the
4:33:29 > 4:33:33franchise, it only allows big companies do operate, and they chase
4:33:33 > 4:33:39massive profits, at the behest of their shareholders. Going forward,
4:33:39 > 4:33:41the public-private alliance model proposed by the Transport Secretary
4:33:41 > 4:33:44in theory might be an improvement, but again it is absolutely bonkers
4:33:44 > 4:33:53not to revert to that model on the public franchise. The new model
4:33:53 > 4:33:56might continue multilayer operations interactions and either timetabling
4:33:56 > 4:34:01to get that into place as outlined in the honourable member for
4:34:01 > 4:34:07Middlesbrough.I'm grateful for giving way. One of these new models
4:34:07 > 4:34:10is the Oxford- Cambridge line, where the Transport Secretary has said
4:34:10 > 4:34:13that he is happy to devolve power to a private company. Does my
4:34:13 > 4:34:17honourable friend find it strange that he would not be willing to
4:34:17 > 4:34:20devolve such an operation in Network Rail to Scotland? That they can make
4:34:20 > 4:34:26a real difference to people and the travelling public?I was going to
4:34:26 > 4:34:30come out later on, but I cannot understand the UK Government
4:34:30 > 4:34:33intransigence about devolving Network Rail, that has shown that it
4:34:33 > 4:34:36will take save the taxpayer £30 million and make it more accountable
4:34:36 > 4:34:45to the Scottish Dublin. I previously touched on the demise of British
4:34:45 > 4:34:48rail, privatisation is clear and we have heard that there is an increase
4:34:48 > 4:34:52in passenger numbers and increase in investment. Again, this goes back to
4:34:52 > 4:34:57the cause and effect. It is not a direct consequence of privatisation.
4:34:57 > 4:35:01It did allow private investment to beleaguered in, but this private
4:35:01 > 4:35:04investment is recouped through passenger fares and public subsidy.
4:35:04 > 4:35:07That is the bottom line. Actually, when the Government allowed private
4:35:07 > 4:35:12investment to come in, and then took the decision to be a bit bolder in
4:35:12 > 4:35:15the specifications for the franchises in terms of increased
4:35:15 > 4:35:18services, new rolling stock and other improvements. But that same
4:35:18 > 4:35:24ambition can be replicated by nationalisation or allowing public
4:35:24 > 4:35:29sector investment rather than being region to private investment. So,
4:35:29 > 4:35:33also following privatisation was an upturn in the economy. There is a
4:35:33 > 4:35:36range of factors that have contributed to better passenger
4:35:36 > 4:35:40ignorance and increased numbers. The trust was Secretary needs to move
4:35:40 > 4:35:44away from his private equals good and public equals bad and
4:35:44 > 4:35:47inefficient mentality. I fear today that there is no sign of that
4:35:47 > 4:35:55changing. Labour did renege on the 1997 manifesto to renationalise the
4:35:55 > 4:35:59rail system, but at least they did commission on the review in 2000 and
4:35:59 > 4:36:0492 get better value money for the railway system for spectacular. It
4:36:04 > 4:36:08is incredible that the Tory Government has sat on support for
4:36:08 > 4:36:15six years becoming modest proposals for bringing into line the model.
4:36:15 > 4:36:23Alliances can be made to work better than the current franchise system.
4:36:23 > 4:36:28It is the only franchise that stipulates all staff must be paid in
4:36:28 > 4:36:32living wage. It guarantees trade union representation at every board
4:36:32 > 4:36:37meeting, no compulsory redundancies and 100 new apprentices. Rather than
4:36:37 > 4:36:40making stuff terms and conditions the mechanism for profit, the
4:36:40 > 4:36:44Scottish Government has actually incorporated and protected terms and
4:36:44 > 4:36:49conditions for the start into the contract. In terms of passenger
4:36:49 > 4:36:53experience and rolling stock, 22% more carriages, and a drive to
4:36:53 > 4:37:00expand tourism. These aims and ambitions and protections compare
4:37:00 > 4:37:04directly to the attitude from the Secretary of State and the Tory
4:37:04 > 4:37:09suburban rail franchise. That is not to say that there went teething
4:37:09 > 4:37:12problems with the new Abellio Alliance. It is now the best
4:37:12 > 4:37:16performing franchise in the UK. Even so, the Scottish gunmen have put in
4:37:16 > 4:37:20place measures to allow a public sector picture meant to be submitted
4:37:20 > 4:37:23either at the end of the franchise or at a midpoint with possible
4:37:23 > 4:37:29break. And the success of ferries competing in the private sector
4:37:29 > 4:37:36shows how this can be achieved and work successfully. Going forward, as
4:37:36 > 4:37:45shown with interventions, if Network Rail is devolved to Scotland under
4:37:45 > 4:37:48the control of the Scottish Government, then the operation of
4:37:48 > 4:37:53rail services in Scotland would be much more efficient and there would
4:37:53 > 4:37:57be a far greater accountability and allow us to move forward better.I
4:37:57 > 4:38:04think you forgiving way. Would you accept that as well as Network Rail
4:38:04 > 4:38:11devolution, the powers of control of evolved franchises was devolved in
4:38:11 > 4:38:14May 2016, web public sector business to be brought forward for ScotRail.
4:38:14 > 4:38:18But that was well known in advance of the current tender. Is it not the
4:38:18 > 4:38:21case that ScotRail could be in public hands today if the Scottish
4:38:21 > 4:38:26gunmen had not delayed tender?I thank my honourable member for the
4:38:26 > 4:38:30intervention. Just a small history lesson. It was a UK Labour
4:38:30 > 4:38:35Government that refuse to hand over these powers to Scotland. They had a
4:38:35 > 4:38:40chance in 2000 and 2005, since the SNP Government came in power in
4:38:40 > 4:38:472007, three Secretary of State of transport wrote to ask the and her
4:38:47 > 4:38:53pals to Scotland and three times that was refused. That process, the
4:38:53 > 4:38:58short list was drawn up in 2013, in means the contracts and invitation
4:38:58 > 4:39:04to tender was way before that. And the contract was awarded in 2014, a
4:39:04 > 4:39:08year and a half before the new powers came into play. It is as Lily
4:39:08 > 4:39:11ridiculous to say the Scottish gunmen sat on our hands and waited
4:39:11 > 4:39:15on future powers that might or might not have came. They did come and the
4:39:15 > 4:39:18Scottish Government is going to use them in the future in that public
4:39:18 > 4:39:28sector did, I think the honourable member for that intervention.Would
4:39:28 > 4:39:31you agree in the casework experience that we have that at the moment
4:39:31 > 4:39:36Network Rail is not an accountable body at all. When you try to raise
4:39:36 > 4:39:39constituent cases or complaints about works on the line, or things
4:39:39 > 4:39:43to do, it is very difficult to get any answers, because they do not
4:39:43 > 4:39:47want to consult. They just want to do things and pay lip service to
4:39:47 > 4:39:50community engagement.It is certainly a big problem, Network
4:39:50 > 4:39:53Rail is too big and effectively accountable to two governments,
4:39:53 > 4:40:02causes further problems. Clearly the Labour called for a
4:40:02 > 4:40:07renationalisation, is something I am against and has clear merits on
4:40:07 > 4:40:10keeping all monies in the public purse. I do have some concern about
4:40:10 > 4:40:17the way the model was proposed in the manifesto, and that touches on
4:40:17 > 4:40:20that intervention from my honourable friend. What it does show through
4:40:20 > 4:40:24the proposed model, we believe the railway can be nationalised through
4:40:24 > 4:40:28the EU single market, giving the EU firewall proposed between rail
4:40:28 > 4:40:32access and network operation side of the business. The argument that you
4:40:32 > 4:40:36cannot be in the single market and have a national railway is clearly
4:40:36 > 4:40:40false, and the Labour Party has recognised that themselves. We do
4:40:40 > 4:40:44know that the nationalisation works given how many state owned railway
4:40:44 > 4:40:48companies operate in the UK currently. Of course, they are also
4:40:48 > 4:40:53doing so under EU rules. Therefore, the cheery anti-nationalisation
4:40:53 > 4:40:59attitude is clearly utter nonsense. The library briefing and railway
4:40:59 > 4:41:05structure at there is no best... It gives excellent examples. What is
4:41:05 > 4:41:10clear, is that public sector involvement, state owned franchises
4:41:10 > 4:41:15can work. The UK, at the moment, has a franchise model that has not
4:41:15 > 4:41:17worked effectively and there is absolutely no doubt that a change of
4:41:17 > 4:41:23thinking is required.There is now a limit of four minutes on backbench
4:41:23 > 4:41:31speeches.Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. What we have heard from the
4:41:31 > 4:41:34Secretary of State quite rightly, is that there is record investment in
4:41:34 > 4:41:42the railways and a record number of passengers. Yet, members opposite
4:41:42 > 4:41:48IKEA to criticise the running of the railways. We are going to say, I am
4:41:48 > 4:41:52sure, many tales of woe from backbenchers opposite. But, the
4:41:52 > 4:41:55reality is very different. Yes, there are problems, and we have
4:41:55 > 4:42:01heard from my right honourable friend about Virgin, east coast
4:42:01 > 4:42:06situation. Which is not desirable. But of course, to some extent,
4:42:06 > 4:42:12Virgin predicated on projections of income on improvements to be made by
4:42:12 > 4:42:16Network Rail. And of course, Network Rail, being a nationalised
4:42:16 > 4:42:23organisation, usually delivers late and over budget.
4:42:24 > 4:42:28Virgin, I would accept, and the Secretary of State was somewhat
4:42:28 > 4:42:31critical of them, clearly should have taken note of the fact that
4:42:31 > 4:42:36Network Rail failed to deliver on the promises made on the West Coast
4:42:36 > 4:42:41route some years ago. So I think there is quite legitimate blame on
4:42:41 > 4:42:48both sides. Madam Deputy Speaker, regrettably I am old enough to
4:42:48 > 4:42:53actually remember the is a British rail, a failed nationalised
4:42:53 > 4:42:59monolith, you only had to mention British rail, it was a watchword for
4:42:59 > 4:43:07failure. Until 1992, for example, there were direct train services to
4:43:07 > 4:43:15my own constituency in Cleethorpes. British rail cut those. As the new
4:43:15 > 4:43:21minister who I welcome to his post will hear a lot from you about the
4:43:21 > 4:43:25need for through services to Grimsby and Cleethorpes. The government to
4:43:25 > 4:43:30support the rail network to an enormous extent. There was an
4:43:30 > 4:43:36article in rail magazine on October 13, many of the figures were
4:43:36 > 4:43:42repeated in the times in a column last week when £925 million were
4:43:42 > 4:43:46invested by the private sector in the rail network during the year
4:43:46 > 4:43:552016-17. The Shadow Secretary of State, he failed to identify how a
4:43:55 > 4:44:00Labour proposal would actually bring forth that money. The reality is, as
4:44:00 > 4:44:05we know, you can usually predict that when cuts come, as they do in
4:44:05 > 4:44:08every government, the first thing that goes is capital infrastructure
4:44:08 > 4:44:15expenditure. And there is no way that a re-nationalise network under
4:44:15 > 4:44:21a Labour government would be able to raise approaching £1 billion a year
4:44:21 > 4:44:27that the private sector are currently investing.I am grateful
4:44:27 > 4:44:33to him giving way. How does the honourable member think that a state
4:44:33 > 4:44:37owned German rail company that owns a substantial chunk of our
4:44:37 > 4:44:43franchises makes a profit? It invests that profit it makes here in
4:44:43 > 4:44:47our private eye system in their own system in subsidised fares there.
4:44:47 > 4:44:53That seems ludicrous to me and most of the travelling public.Perhaps
4:44:53 > 4:45:01they are a bit more free market and capitalist minded over in Germany!
4:45:01 > 4:45:06If I can come to open access operators, Madam Deputy Speaker, we
4:45:06 > 4:45:10have seen competition. At the moment competition is for the franchise
4:45:10 > 4:45:15will stop what we want is more competition on the actual running of
4:45:15 > 4:45:21services, and one way we can achieve that is by open access operators.
4:45:21 > 4:45:25Hull trains and Grand Central both run on these coast main line and
4:45:25 > 4:45:32provide services to areas that in the main do not get a service from
4:45:32 > 4:45:35the main franchise holder, and indeed Grand Central I understand
4:45:35 > 4:45:39Madam Deputy Speaker are shortly to put forward a proposal for direct
4:45:39 > 4:45:43trains from King's Cross through to Scunthorpe, Grimsby and Cleethorpes,
4:45:43 > 4:45:47and I hope the new minister will be very supportive of that, it will be
4:45:47 > 4:45:58a great boost to the local economy. I thank my honourable friend, Percy
4:45:58 > 4:46:03agree with me that way you see open access you tend to see a higher
4:46:03 > 4:46:09satisfaction rate amongst passengers and rail users?Is absolutely right,
4:46:09 > 4:46:14Hull trains and Grand Central get very high satisfaction rates. The
4:46:14 > 4:46:19house needs to take note of the transport select committee's report
4:46:19 > 4:46:23into rail franchising from last year, when in relation to open
4:46:23 > 4:46:28access, it says open access has been a success, albeit on a limited scale
4:46:28 > 4:46:33to date. The balance of evidence points to potential benefits in open
4:46:33 > 4:46:38access having an expanded role on long-distance routes. It says
4:46:38 > 4:46:42reforms are needed if open access is to be expanded on the network. We
4:46:42 > 4:46:49recommend the department and the LR work together -- the oh.
4:46:50 > 4:47:00I very much hope, I think the new manager, I hope, will -- the new
4:47:00 > 4:47:03minister will make one of his priorities looking closely into how
4:47:03 > 4:47:08we can introduce more open access operations into the railway and
4:47:08 > 4:47:14actually genuinely provide contribution and improve services
4:47:14 > 4:47:16particularly on those routes that are struggling at the moment.
4:47:16 > 4:47:23Reference has been made to the ticket fare increases. And it is a
4:47:23 > 4:47:27fair point, though there has to be a balance between what the taxpayer is
4:47:27 > 4:47:33prepared to put into the network, and I gather the figure from Murgia,
4:47:33 > 4:47:37a net figure, was at 800? I have lost the figure, where is my chart,
4:47:37 > 4:47:44here we are! 4.2 billion, that's right, 4.2 billion during the last
4:47:44 > 4:47:48financial year was the net contribution from the taxpayer. Not
4:47:48 > 4:47:55an insignificant amount. While mentioning fares, could I be
4:47:55 > 4:48:00critical of the rail regulators? So often tickets are not checked,
4:48:00 > 4:48:02barriers at stations do not operate. That is something that urgently
4:48:02 > 4:48:11needs looking at.No other nation in the world runs its railways like the
4:48:11 > 4:48:14UK has since the flawed and ideological fragmentation and
4:48:14 > 4:48:18privatisation carried out by the major government in the mid-19 90s.
4:48:18 > 4:48:23There is a reason for that, because it just doesn't work very well. It
4:48:23 > 4:48:26particularly hasn't worked on these coast male line. Since rail
4:48:26 > 4:48:31privatisation of the three private operators, one has gone bust, one
4:48:31 > 4:48:36has defaulted on the contract and now another one has been allowed to
4:48:36 > 4:48:40avoid payments of hundreds of millions of pounds that it undertook
4:48:40 > 4:48:46to pay, possibly up to £2 billion, to the taxpayer. This latest
4:48:46 > 4:48:52financing failure is a capitulation by the Transport Secretary to Virgin
4:48:52 > 4:48:55Trains's demand to be that offer consequences of its over bidding to
4:48:55 > 4:48:59get the contract. Transport Secretary has done this in an effort
4:48:59 > 4:49:01to prevent the embarrassing spectacle another very public
4:49:01 > 4:49:07failure in the private operation of east coast in the city. This follows
4:49:07 > 4:49:12his predecessor's ideological image of a the decision to strip directly
4:49:12 > 4:49:15operated rail of the operation of these coast mainline mere weeks
4:49:15 > 4:49:22ahead of the 2015 general election. And the Transport Secretary in doing
4:49:22 > 4:49:26this has simply given into the self interested demands and very costly
4:49:26 > 4:49:30demands of this trade operating company. The only east coast
4:49:30 > 4:49:34operator that has not gone bust faulted or received a bailout from
4:49:34 > 4:49:42the taxpayer has been these coast mainline, -- east coast main line.
4:49:42 > 4:49:45Established by Lord Dennis when he was Transport Secretary in 2009. In
4:49:45 > 4:50:00other words a publicly owned company -- Lord Adonis. Its record is clear.
4:50:00 > 4:50:03It made all required service payments, returning over £1 billion
4:50:03 > 4:50:09to the Treasury. It invested all of its profits straight back into
4:50:09 > 4:50:12services, paying out zero dividends to greedy private owners because it
4:50:12 > 4:50:16didn't have any, and it achieved some of the best results on the east
4:50:16 > 4:50:23coast of any operator since records began.On that very point, on the
4:50:23 > 4:50:25east coast main line, because of the ideological decision of the
4:50:25 > 4:50:31government, we have actually forgone profits back to the Treasury of £1
4:50:31 > 4:50:36billion, and, at the same time, allowing the private franchise not
4:50:36 > 4:50:41to pay £2.1 billion to retain the franchise. That is economic madness,
4:50:41 > 4:50:45on the basis of returning it -- retaining it in the private sector.
4:50:45 > 4:50:50The honourable gentleman is correct, clearly it has been money no object
4:50:50 > 4:50:54to try to avoid the embarrassment of yet another failure of this
4:50:54 > 4:51:00franchise in the hands of a private operator. So why did the coalition
4:51:00 > 4:51:07government agree? The date is a clue, it was just weeks ahead of the
4:51:07 > 4:51:102015 general election. It was actually cynical, ideological
4:51:10 > 4:51:14motivated and very costly to the public purse. Our policy at the time
4:51:14 > 4:51:18was very clear, it was to keep east coast in public hands to act as a
4:51:18 > 4:51:29public sector comparator. To enable us gradually as franchises ended to
4:51:29 > 4:51:34take the operation of the railways back into public ownership without
4:51:34 > 4:51:42having to pay out the buy-back contracts. Just changing the order
4:51:42 > 4:51:44in franchise competitions to enable it to be done cost the public purse
4:51:44 > 4:51:49hundreds of millions of pounds. Indeed, the consequences of that
4:51:49 > 4:51:52lamentable decision are being seen today in the ongoing chaos and waste
4:51:52 > 4:51:58of money that the franchising system is inflicting on our railways. Now
4:51:58 > 4:52:02spectacularly reinforced by the Transport Secretary's at pictures on
4:52:02 > 4:52:04to the financial interest of the private trade operating --
4:52:04 > 4:52:11capitulation. The Transport Secretary is institutionalising
4:52:11 > 4:52:15massive taxpayer bailouts, which he has renamed partnerships. I predict
4:52:15 > 4:52:20this point be the last such bailout. He has effectively institutionalise,
4:52:20 > 4:52:23giving into the tendency that private companies have shown over
4:52:23 > 4:52:27the years of gaining the -- gaming the franchise system, whilst
4:52:27 > 4:52:35avoiding making payments which they are contracted to make. Virgin are
4:52:35 > 4:52:38not the first train operating Company to do this, they will be the
4:52:38 > 4:52:44last.
4:52:48 > 4:52:52They can be abandoned with no penalty attached for behaving badly.
4:52:52 > 4:52:54The government are institutionalising the reality that
4:52:54 > 4:52:58private companies take the profits, but the taxpayer provides nearly all
4:52:58 > 4:53:02the investment in trains, track and infrastructure, as well as covering
4:53:02 > 4:53:06any losses. It is the very definition of a licence to print
4:53:06 > 4:53:10money. Private train bosses are simply laughing all the way to the
4:53:10 > 4:53:15bank. The Secretary of State for ideological reasons is allowing them
4:53:15 > 4:53:21to do so. We can't go on like this. It is time this costly and failing
4:53:21 > 4:53:27system was ended. It hasn't worked, it won't work in the future, we need
4:53:27 > 4:53:36to make sure we do things better.It is a pleasure to follow the right
4:53:36 > 4:53:41honourable lady for Garsden and Helmot, despite me not agreeing with
4:53:41 > 4:53:47what she had to say. The cost of an annual ticket from Colchester to
4:53:47 > 4:53:52London is now £5,104. I am in no doubt that this is a huge amount of
4:53:52 > 4:53:57money for my constituents. Yet despite what the opposition claims,
4:53:57 > 4:54:00pleading the right honourable lady, these fares are not lining the
4:54:00 > 4:54:08pockets of rail companies. 97p in every £1 of a fair goes on the
4:54:08 > 4:54:11running and improvement of our railways. However when our
4:54:11 > 4:54:13constituents pay this amount of travelling to work, they need to see
4:54:13 > 4:54:20value for money. To be fair, passengers on our servers will see
4:54:20 > 4:54:24real benefits from our new franchise. Over 1000 brand-new
4:54:24 > 4:54:27carriages coming into service from next jerk, all at a cost of over £1
4:54:27 > 4:54:33billion. I assumed that is another £1 billion that the party opposite
4:54:33 > 4:54:37would borrow? Free Wi-Fi for all passengers at stations and on
4:54:37 > 4:54:42trains. Automatic delay repave the season ticket holders and those who
4:54:42 > 4:54:45bought their tickets in advance will stop all of these things will make a
4:54:45 > 4:54:50massive difference. The only ask I would make of the department is that
4:54:50 > 4:54:54the new 15 minute threshold for the Labour pay, which was announced
4:54:54 > 4:55:00after a Bellew were rule ordered their contract, as things stand,
4:55:00 > 4:55:03that means they won't likely be introduced until a new franchise is
4:55:03 > 4:55:13awarded in 2025. My constituents, Tampa and I would like to see that
4:55:13 > 4:55:16implemented the see of the department can make that happen as
4:55:16 > 4:55:19soon as possible. However I am not going to stand here and pretend that
4:55:19 > 4:55:27the current franchise system is perfect. Which issues with
4:55:27 > 4:55:33competition,...Would he agree with me that there was still the same
4:55:33 > 4:55:39companies bidding and ordered off competition amongst bidders?I sat
4:55:39 > 4:55:42on the transport select committee and he is right, on the invitation
4:55:42 > 4:55:47to tender on our most recent franchise on the great Eastern
4:55:47 > 4:55:58mainline, the three companies who put in
4:56:03 > 4:56:07Abellio.
4:56:08 > 4:56:11Multi-million pounds bonds put up by Company is looking to run services
4:56:11 > 4:56:15and lots of risk even the large companies. In my view, we should be
4:56:15 > 4:56:19looking at creating smaller franchises, which carry less risk.
4:56:19 > 4:56:23Therefore they can attract more interest and more bids, delivering
4:56:23 > 4:56:24more competition and therefore ultimately better value for money
4:56:24 > 4:56:33for the taxpayer. --
4:56:33 > 4:56:37He's talking about competition, would then councils and local
4:56:37 > 4:56:41authorities and other public bodies bid for franchises, not be a good
4:56:41 > 4:56:44way of making sure there is more competition and competition that
4:56:44 > 4:56:52people can control?I think most likely not. But I do actually agree
4:56:52 > 4:56:57that we do need more competition. In particular, and I agree with my
4:56:57 > 4:57:00honourable friend that we need more open access.My honourable friend is
4:57:00 > 4:57:05making a very fine point. I welcome the contribution made. I do welcome
4:57:05 > 4:57:10the idea of more competition. I would welcome the idea of groups in
4:57:10 > 4:57:15the charitable and non-profitable sector. The idea that the should
4:57:15 > 4:57:20risk taxpayers money is what we are moving away from.My honourable
4:57:20 > 4:57:24friend makes a very eloquent point. He is absolutely right. We do need
4:57:24 > 4:57:33to look at more open access is two or more companies can compete on the
4:57:33 > 4:57:36same franchise, wherever the line can support it. I appreciate there
4:57:36 > 4:57:40are lots that can't, and this is a prime example of where that would be
4:57:40 > 4:57:45difficult to do. Where we do have open access, it does tend to be
4:57:45 > 4:57:49higher satisfaction ratings with operators. Proof that competition
4:57:49 > 4:57:52can offer benefits for passengers. Another idea that I think be
4:57:52 > 4:57:57improved is ticketing. I would like season tickets to take inspiration
4:57:57 > 4:58:02from the fair capping that we have on the Underground. There is a
4:58:02 > 4:58:06substantial discount to buying an annual ticket as opposed to monthly.
4:58:06 > 4:58:09If you employer does not offer you a season ticket loan, it could be
4:58:09 > 4:58:14difficult to afford a one-off payment, offer in-depth thousands of
4:58:14 > 4:58:17pounds, Colchester to London is about £5,000. Passengers should not
4:58:17 > 4:58:22pay more because they can afford a large amount in one go. I would urge
4:58:22 > 4:58:26the Government to look into capping season ticket travellers as part of
4:58:26 > 4:58:30new franchises so that new passengers will never pay more for
4:58:30 > 4:58:34an annual ticket in a single year. This will save commuters hundreds of
4:58:34 > 4:58:37pounds and would be made easier by the implementation of Smart
4:58:37 > 4:58:43ticketing which we are seeing being rolled out across franchises. Our
4:58:43 > 4:58:47rail network has undergone an extra ordinary transformation since
4:58:47 > 4:58:52privatisation. Passenger journeys are down a third since 1960 and
4:58:52 > 4:58:561995, have doubled. We have one of the safest railway networks in
4:58:56 > 4:59:00Europe. The focus must now be on doubling down on competition and
4:59:00 > 4:59:05value for money as part of the franchising process. Not taking away
4:59:05 > 4:59:08all competition and returning to the days of British rail. I would
4:59:08 > 4:59:13encourage the Government to set a 40 year vision of how to transform our
4:59:13 > 4:59:17railways, not listen to the opposition's plans on how to return
4:59:17 > 4:59:24our railway last seen 40 years ago. It has been quite a week for the
4:59:24 > 4:59:27Transport Secretary, but I think even by his standards, this debate
4:59:27 > 4:59:33might qualify as a low point. My constituents listening to this
4:59:33 > 4:59:40debate will be absolutely astonished to hear the very rosy picture that
4:59:40 > 4:59:44he painted about a daily commute from my constituents in Wigan, but a
4:59:44 > 4:59:49daily struggle. To get onto trains older than I am, often late,
4:59:49 > 4:59:52overcrowded, dirty and cold, and every year they are rewarded by
4:59:52 > 4:59:56seeing their fares go up. The human cost of this is enormous. Every week
4:59:56 > 5:00:01I am contacted by a constituent who is tired and stressed and anxious
5:00:01 > 5:00:03about money, or he was seriously considering giving up their job
5:00:03 > 5:00:08because they do not know how many more bedtimes, bath times or story
5:00:08 > 5:00:12times with their kids they can miss. Because we are failing in one of the
5:00:12 > 5:00:17very basic functions of the state, to provide a decent public transport
5:00:17 > 5:00:21service. In towns like mind this has a much wider... I will take one
5:00:21 > 5:00:29intervention.I think you forgiving way. We have been hearing from
5:00:29 > 5:00:33Conservative members that higher fares would find improved services.
5:00:33 > 5:00:40I come from Manchester, a city which has a first railway station, yet we
5:00:40 > 5:00:47find they are in desperate need of investment. They have been hit by
5:00:47 > 5:00:52consistent flooding over the holidays, four days, posing a real
5:00:52 > 5:00:58danger to passenger safety. That station, in the 21st century, still
5:00:58 > 5:01:04does not have disability access. I think, ultimately, the passengers
5:01:04 > 5:01:10who are paying higher fares... Order! I tried the honorary male
5:01:10 > 5:01:19gentleman to make his point. He is -- honourable. A longer speech than
5:01:19 > 5:01:22people sitting here will get to make a next half an hour because we will
5:01:22 > 5:01:28have very tight time limits. Many people have made very long
5:01:28 > 5:01:31interventions and that means that some other people won't get to speak
5:01:31 > 5:01:36at all. If honourable members want to be fair, then they know how to do
5:01:36 > 5:01:44so.He is right of course, because in a town like mine which is typical
5:01:44 > 5:01:46of many towns around the country where people commute into nearby
5:01:46 > 5:01:54cities for work, Manchester being mine. So, I am familiar with it. Two
5:01:54 > 5:01:56thirds of our constituents commute out of the borough for work every
5:01:56 > 5:02:03single day. And for our town, the economic interest is enormous,
5:02:03 > 5:02:07because when they returned back to Wigan, they spend in our local shops
5:02:07 > 5:02:11and businesses, they sustain our high street, our local pubs. And he
5:02:11 > 5:02:15will know as well as I do, the towns across this country are ageing.
5:02:15 > 5:02:20Centre the town 's research launched last year, showed the towns lost 35
5:02:20 > 5:02:26million people under the age of 25 over the last 30 years. So, public
5:02:26 > 5:02:29transport is the artery that keeps the beating heart in towns like
5:02:29 > 5:02:34mine. And it has actually been always thus. Towns like Manchester
5:02:34 > 5:02:39and Birmingham, grew and thrived because of the development of the
5:02:39 > 5:02:43railways which enabled them to trade with one another. How is it that 200
5:02:43 > 5:02:48years later we have a report from the IPPR, that finds it takes longer
5:02:48 > 5:02:53to get from Liverpool to Hull, and from London to Paris? I will give
5:02:53 > 5:02:58him one example of why these decisions being made hundreds of
5:02:58 > 5:03:03miles away from the people affected are really quite broken. In 2015 the
5:03:03 > 5:03:12Department for Transport awarded the Northern Rail franchise to Ariva,
5:03:12 > 5:03:15and as part of the deal that will it will give a better service, they
5:03:15 > 5:03:21axed the service through Southport. Two thirds of the people commute to
5:03:21 > 5:03:24the south side of the city, they were told by their Government and
5:03:24 > 5:03:28instead they could commute to the north side of the city and arrive at
5:03:28 > 5:03:32work mid-morning. If they had been consulted at all they would have
5:03:32 > 5:03:38told the Secretary of State why that was a problem and it has taken five
5:03:38 > 5:03:41MPs from three political parties, two years of hard work to try and
5:03:41 > 5:03:45persuade the Government to sort this out. And we still haven't managed to
5:03:45 > 5:03:49resolve it. No wonder then, that there are four and a half times more
5:03:49 > 5:03:54people the commute by train in London than as a proportion of the
5:03:54 > 5:03:57population in my region in the north-west. Because these decisions
5:03:57 > 5:04:02made hundreds of miles away from the people who are affected with no
5:04:02 > 5:04:05understanding and no thought given to the reality of their daily lives.
5:04:05 > 5:04:09I would say to the Minister, who isn't paying attention at the
5:04:09 > 5:04:12moment, that he will soon have to pay attention, because the level of
5:04:12 > 5:04:18anger that this is creating across this country, is an immense. The
5:04:18 > 5:04:21data analyst Tom fourth pointed out recently that for a scheme to be
5:04:21 > 5:04:26funded in Leeds, in needs to be providing twice the return on
5:04:26 > 5:04:29investment as a scheme in London. How can that be sustainable? I were
5:04:29 > 5:04:34to say this to the Minister, that if we were given the power to make
5:04:34 > 5:04:40these decisions for ourselves, we would have made very, very different
5:04:40 > 5:04:44decisions in recent years. We would have prioritised local services and
5:04:44 > 5:04:49connecting up our great regional cities before we had started in
5:04:49 > 5:04:52investing in HS2. We would never have got into this situation where
5:04:52 > 5:04:57we were faced with losing the guard on the trade, because I tell him
5:04:57 > 5:05:02what this will do. It will make our railways no go areas are many
5:05:02 > 5:05:09people, including women later night, people with disabilities. Talk far
5:05:09 > 5:05:15more about buses, now in my constituency for a family it is
5:05:15 > 5:05:19often cheaper to get a taxi down a bus, how was that sustainable? The
5:05:19 > 5:05:23Secretary of State a few years ago was refund of the phrase take back
5:05:23 > 5:05:28control. If he means anything by his word, then give us back control,
5:05:28 > 5:05:32because we could hardly do worse than this moment.Following what I
5:05:32 > 5:05:35said a few moments ago, I have to reduce the time limit to three
5:05:35 > 5:05:42minutes.Thank you, it is a great pleasure to follow the honourable
5:05:42 > 5:05:45lady of the Wigan and talk in this debate. I thought this morning as I
5:05:45 > 5:05:48walked through on my daily commute to this place, because I'm one of
5:05:48 > 5:05:52the perhaps few people fortunate enough to be able to commute from
5:05:52 > 5:05:56east Sussex to this place will stop London Bridge station, which has
5:05:56 > 5:06:00caused me and many of my constituents are enormous
5:06:00 > 5:06:03difficulties with its rebuilt and reconstruction of tracks, now looks
5:06:03 > 5:06:08absolutely fantastic. It is a shiny example of the £40 billion
5:06:08 > 5:06:10investment that this Government has made into the railways and the
5:06:10 > 5:06:14difference in now makes. I want to talk up our railways and the success
5:06:14 > 5:06:19of it. M bid at both under this administration and indeed the last
5:06:19 > 5:06:23Labour administration, since 1997, the number of passengers on our rail
5:06:23 > 5:06:28has now doubled. It lightly pays for itself, it does not need the 2
5:06:28 > 5:06:32billion pounds a year taxpayer subsidy that was taken not to
5:06:32 > 5:06:36properly run things. We have a rail system that, when we compare our
5:06:36 > 5:06:41position to Europe, we have the second safest railway after Ireland.
5:06:41 > 5:06:46We have the second-best performing railway in terms of passenger
5:06:46 > 5:06:51performance feedback, second only to Finland. We utilise it more than 60%
5:06:51 > 5:06:56greater than the European average. And we have put in more investment
5:06:56 > 5:07:01into our Galloway than any other you country. We should talk up its
5:07:01 > 5:07:07success. Not only that, it employs 250,000 people, it releases £11
5:07:07 > 5:07:13billion of costs that would be their... It reduces CO2 by million
5:07:13 > 5:07:20tonnes and adds 10,000,000,020 BA. We should talk about our success of
5:07:20 > 5:07:23our rail story. But, of course there are challenges. We have seen
5:07:23 > 5:07:28challenges in the southern network where we have really suffered with
5:07:28 > 5:07:30strikes and a poor performing operator. That has been laid bare
5:07:30 > 5:07:36today. We should not forget that the unionisation of a rail network has
5:07:36 > 5:07:39caused enormous problems. It should be well remembered that the same
5:07:39 > 5:07:43train drivers that have now pledged to drive these chains that they said
5:07:43 > 5:07:48was otherwise say, had taken a 28.5% pay rise. That is a much greater pay
5:07:48 > 5:07:52rise only passengers who are paying the rail ticket issue. All
5:07:52 > 5:07:56honourable members need to recognise that those costs and up with our
5:07:56 > 5:08:01passengers paying more and more. With the last 30 seconds, let's give
5:08:01 > 5:08:05something back to the passengers. At the moment, Network Rail has to
5:08:05 > 5:08:09compensate rail operators for any delays that may have been caused by
5:08:09 > 5:08:14them. Only a third of the passengers that experience those same delays
5:08:14 > 5:08:17actually claim it back. Therefore, train operators are keeping that
5:08:17 > 5:08:21money. I would like this train operators to be required to bank
5:08:21 > 5:08:26that money... I will give way.Are you making the point that I suspect
5:08:26 > 5:08:30you will about automatic delay repay and that being included in future
5:08:30 > 5:08:33franchises? Tell I am indeed. I thank you for helping me finish my
5:08:33 > 5:08:43sentence. If you are making up money that can only be spent on new
5:08:43 > 5:08:47technology so that anybody would be required to tap in and tap off their
5:08:47 > 5:08:51train, by the time they get to their destination, they are more than 15
5:08:51 > 5:08:55or 30 minutes late, they can have that compensation credited to their
5:08:55 > 5:08:59bank account. In today's's day and age, there is no need for passengers
5:08:59 > 5:09:03to go through the timely and costly and bureaucratic exercise of
5:09:03 > 5:09:08claiming. That is why they do not claim. There is a Bill, that I hope
5:09:08 > 5:09:12will get its second reading at the end of March in my name, that I
5:09:12 > 5:09:14would like the Minister to get behind comic as I believe the
5:09:14 > 5:09:20technology does exist. That would give more back to the passenger. The
5:09:20 > 5:09:25other point I would just like to make is that it is in all good
5:09:25 > 5:09:28talking about public good, and I recognise a lot of the good work at
5:09:28 > 5:09:32Network Rail do, but they have also been responsible for a large part of
5:09:32 > 5:09:38the delays that the train operators are taking the flak for. I think it
5:09:38 > 5:09:42is time to put all of the track and the responsibility of the train
5:09:42 > 5:09:45operator and also question whether some of the stations should now be
5:09:45 > 5:09:53transferred out, as well.I want to, in the short time I have, start off
5:09:53 > 5:09:57by paying tribute to all these staff that work on our railways in this
5:09:57 > 5:10:01country. I think they do an excellent job of getting our
5:10:01 > 5:10:05railways moving under very difficult circumstances. I also want to pay
5:10:05 > 5:10:08tribute to the Shadow Secretary of State for the wiki has done in the
5:10:08 > 5:10:11last few weeks in standing up to the British public and making the case
5:10:11 > 5:10:15to the public. They deserve better service than they have been getting.
5:10:15 > 5:10:20I want to agree one thing with what the Secretary of State said. That is
5:10:20 > 5:10:25to pay tribute to the minister who has left the Department for south
5:10:25 > 5:10:28Holland, because she was somebody who understood the value of trade
5:10:28 > 5:10:33unions. He was one of the few Conservative ministers that would
5:10:33 > 5:10:37meet with union 's regular, because he understood that working together,
5:10:37 > 5:10:41management and workforce provide a better service. I want to make two
5:10:41 > 5:10:47points. The first one, since the botched privatisation, it was a
5:10:47 > 5:10:52privatisation too far in the 1990s of the row ways. We have lost the
5:10:52 > 5:10:56important transport integration that we once had in this country. I was
5:10:56 > 5:11:01born and raised and still live in the port railway town of Holyhead,
5:11:01 > 5:11:08where we had ferries full of people coming in and using it to go to
5:11:08 > 5:11:13continental Europe and this country, and they would get a train or a bus
5:11:13 > 5:11:18or a means of transport. That has been broken because of the franchise
5:11:18 > 5:11:22agreement and that each mode of transport is now operating in a
5:11:22 > 5:11:29silo. We need to get that integration. Now, I believe in the
5:11:29 > 5:11:33private sector, public sector, and indeed not-for-profit, having a
5:11:33 > 5:11:35stake in British industry and British transport system. Others
5:11:35 > 5:11:39like to make the case to the minister, who I welcome to this
5:11:39 > 5:11:43place, for the not-for-profit sector, because, in Wales, we have
5:11:43 > 5:11:49our water run by the not so profit sector. It meets the criteria of the
5:11:49 > 5:11:54EU and provides an excellent service. It paid profits back into
5:11:54 > 5:11:58investing back in the company and customers get a better service than
5:11:58 > 5:12:03many of the private, ideological you run once in England. There is a
5:12:03 > 5:12:07model that works, and it is not-for-profit. It values its
5:12:07 > 5:12:12customers and values its workforce. Makes money and it reinvests. Now,
5:12:12 > 5:12:18during the Welsh Bill that was put before Parliament in 2016, I and
5:12:18 > 5:12:23members asked that the 1993 act be changed so that Wales could have a
5:12:23 > 5:12:26not-for-profit for its franchise. That would have worked. This garment
5:12:26 > 5:12:33resisted it. I say to the minister, at this late hour, look again at the
5:12:33 > 5:12:351993 act. Allow Wales to run its affairs anyway that is good for its
5:12:35 > 5:12:41customers, that is good for the communities and is good for growth
5:12:41 > 5:12:44across the country. If this Government is serious about
5:12:44 > 5:12:48spreading wealth in needs to improve its rail system and it needs to fix
5:12:48 > 5:12:54this broken franchise system.
5:12:54 > 5:12:59it is a pleasure to be called in this debate. We have to do about
5:12:59 > 5:13:02express trains and I will do an express speech. It has been
5:13:02 > 5:13:07interesting to listen the arguments being made. I don't find the idea
5:13:07 > 5:13:11that a clarion call to fix all transport network is to bring back
5:13:11 > 5:13:16British rail. It is easy to look at it through rose tinted spectacles,
5:13:16 > 5:13:19it is like those who still love the idea of steam trains running off and
5:13:19 > 5:13:24down the main lines. Yes, beautiful to see, but as a practical mud on
5:13:24 > 5:13:30transport system we have clearly moved on. -- modern. One thing
5:13:30 > 5:13:36missed about our railways, if public was the instant solution is the fact
5:13:36 > 5:13:39that Network Rail is in the public sector, and having sat on the Public
5:13:39 > 5:13:42Accounts Committee at the time when we look to their handling of the
5:13:42 > 5:13:45great Railway modernisation programme, it was safe to say that
5:13:45 > 5:13:50was anything but a success, in fact it was a most a textbook example of
5:13:50 > 5:13:56how not to manage a project. But for me what people look for is what
5:13:56 > 5:14:02services they get, and as an MP myself, my priority is what do my
5:14:02 > 5:14:06customers get, my residence, what servants as a -- services are there?
5:14:06 > 5:14:13Whether it is publicly or privately run not necessarily force that there
5:14:13 > 5:14:17is clearly a consultation going on about whether the great Western
5:14:17 > 5:14:23franchise should be split. Whether our section should split away from
5:14:23 > 5:14:37the section that serves south Wales. Some exceptions on the edges. It
5:14:37 > 5:14:41raises some questions about yes, it is good to have smaller franchises,
5:14:41 > 5:14:45but by the same token it has to be a sustainable franchise to maintain
5:14:45 > 5:14:52the services of a large railway and the main rolling stock. There are
5:14:52 > 5:14:55some key projects that I hope any franchise would look at taking
5:14:55 > 5:15:04forward. Those of you who know the network will know that west of
5:15:04 > 5:15:08Exeter and St Davids there is only one railway line, which makes it
5:15:08 > 5:15:11particularly vulnerable at all -ish, where we need to look at a long-term
5:15:11 > 5:15:15solution, and not just the major schemes, also those to improve the
5:15:15 > 5:15:24line. I also look at how the cross-country, any franchise can
5:15:24 > 5:15:28look to change, and being clear, it must maintain some of those direct
5:15:28 > 5:15:32routes from key areas for the day, such as Manchester and the Southern
5:15:32 > 5:15:35Midlands directly into Paignton and Torquay. I was pleased some of the
5:15:35 > 5:15:39changes were blocked by a previous rail minister and I hope that will
5:15:39 > 5:15:43continue to be the same. For make of the debate has to be what is the
5:15:43 > 5:15:46outcome for passengers, because it is great to talk about whether it
5:15:46 > 5:15:49should be public or private but the ownership is not the key, it is what
5:15:49 > 5:15:53it delivers, and that is what makes the difference to people living in
5:15:53 > 5:16:03our constituencies.Thank you very much. It is blindingly obvious to so
5:16:03 > 5:16:08many of our constituents that this current model of rail franchising
5:16:08 > 5:16:12and profiteering from our railways is broken, inefficient, fragmented
5:16:12 > 5:16:18and unjustifiably expensive. Our private railways are subsidised by
5:16:18 > 5:16:21more than £5 billion of public money every year and that is before we get
5:16:21 > 5:16:27to the bailout of virgin, Stagecoach East coast and the missing £2
5:16:27 > 5:16:34billion. It is no wonder it has been called the great train robbery.
5:16:34 > 5:16:37British passengers paying the highest fares in Europe to travel on
5:16:37 > 5:16:42sometimes packed services while rail companies are laughing all the way
5:16:42 > 5:16:47to the bank. Since 2010, fares have risen three times faster than wages,
5:16:47 > 5:16:53and last week's 3.6% increase was the steepest hike in five years.
5:16:53 > 5:16:57Conservative ministers said higher fares would fund improved services,
5:16:57 > 5:17:02yet long promised investment, including rail electrification, has
5:17:02 > 5:17:18been scrapped. 207 cards are looking to be scrapped. I won't repeat all
5:17:18 > 5:17:22of those answers in the very short time that I have but against the
5:17:22 > 5:17:26backdrop of police cuts and rising crime, the role of the guard in
5:17:26 > 5:17:32Merseyside at is more important than ever. The Merseyside travelling
5:17:32 > 5:17:35public have supported the retention of the guard throughout this dispute
5:17:35 > 5:17:40amidst grave discovered -- grave concerns about passenger safety. How
5:17:40 > 5:17:46can be say -- how can be fair that Merseyside passengers are paying
5:17:46 > 5:17:51fares used for Dutch owners Abellio, but they don't get to enjoy the same
5:17:51 > 5:17:56safety standards themselves? In the context of this debate, the
5:17:56 > 5:18:01franchising system fails to allow the good industrial relations. Train
5:18:01 > 5:18:04operating companies have little interest beyond the term of their
5:18:04 > 5:18:09franchise agreements, effectively buying a license to print money.
5:18:09 > 5:18:12Changes to staffing and strategic decisions that should be considered
5:18:12 > 5:18:15many years in advance and with the agreement of staff and their trade
5:18:15 > 5:18:19unions, and yet this is never the case. The antagonistic strategy this
5:18:19 > 5:18:25government has taken has only had an adverse effect on passengers. It is
5:18:25 > 5:18:35high time we had a Labour government willing to bring it back to public
5:18:35 > 5:18:39ownership. The Merseyrail dispute will not disappear. Reluctantly or
5:18:39 > 5:18:41not, government and regional and local politicians will have to
5:18:41 > 5:18:47engage further, if we are to get our railways moving again in 2018. I
5:18:47 > 5:18:52just say the Merseyrail's odours, Abellio and Sakho, don't do deals on
5:18:52 > 5:18:57Merseyside that you think you can hide away in your corporate offices
5:18:57 > 5:19:04-- Serco.Thank you, I only have three minutes or I will go as
5:19:04 > 5:19:10quickly as I possibly can. I am a new member in this place, and my
5:19:10 > 5:19:14regretting of this is that I come to these kind of debates and I have the
5:19:14 > 5:19:17same kind of stale and artificial debates and arguments from the
5:19:17 > 5:19:20members opposite, and we have done so again today. We immediately get
5:19:20 > 5:19:25into a position about how private is bad and public is good. It is
5:19:25 > 5:19:28totally stale and totally artificial, as the member for
5:19:28 > 5:19:30Liverpool Walton who has just done in his remarks for the past three
5:19:30 > 5:19:34minutes or so. The member for Huddersfield who is no longer in his
5:19:34 > 5:19:37place talked about how this discussion had become in the highly
5:19:37 > 5:19:41partisan very early on. I think the partisanship of this discussion was
5:19:41 > 5:19:46when the motion first went down, which critiqued the idea of
5:19:46 > 5:19:50franchising in concept, in totality, and that is the ultimate problem,
5:19:50 > 5:19:54because the Labour Party is seeking to take some understandable
5:19:54 > 5:19:58examples, which I acknowledge and accept our not good, around the
5:19:58 > 5:20:01country, and extrapolating them how to say there is a systemic problem
5:20:01 > 5:20:05forever with the rail systems which means it needs to be changed. And
5:20:05 > 5:20:09the evidence on this is that there are more people travelling than ever
5:20:09 > 5:20:14before, and we have 60 years of history on the railway network since
5:20:14 > 5:20:18post-war, and of those 60 years, 40 years were in public ownership and
5:20:18 > 5:20:2320 years in private sector ownership. Of that 40 years, much of
5:20:23 > 5:20:26it was an economic, the railways were losing incredible amounts of
5:20:26 > 5:20:29money in the amount of passengers travelled the gist by a third. I
5:20:29 > 5:20:34will not give way. In the last 20 years, 13 years of which members
5:20:34 > 5:20:38opposite stood up to defend under the previous government, we have had
5:20:38 > 5:20:42an increasing number of passengers using, more trains than ever before,
5:20:42 > 5:20:44and we have greater customer satisfaction in many parts of the
5:20:44 > 5:20:49line than before. So I want to make two point while I can in the time I
5:20:49 > 5:20:53have left. Given we are in opposition day, I looked at an
5:20:53 > 5:20:59alternative opposition day one from 19 Defour, which the previous
5:20:59 > 5:21:01Secretary of State, the former member for Holborn and St Pancras,
5:21:01 > 5:21:04came to this place, and he talked about how privatisation would not
5:21:04 > 5:21:08get the investment that was necessary, would not secure the
5:21:08 > 5:21:11safety of the railway network and would not have great lines. I think
5:21:11 > 5:21:15it is demonstrable over the past 20 years that none of those three
5:21:15 > 5:21:20things have actually come to pass. And if you want an example of a
5:21:20 > 5:21:24franchise, if you want an example of a franchise, which is working well,
5:21:24 > 5:21:28the franchise which serves my constituency, which is not perfect
5:21:28 > 5:21:32by any means whatsoever, East Midlands Trains. East Midlands
5:21:32 > 5:21:37Trains had over the past few years worked well. Transport focus says it
5:21:37 > 5:21:40is performing well, especially with regards to punctuality and
5:21:40 > 5:21:46reliability. It's satisfaction surveys are near 90% in terms of
5:21:46 > 5:21:51customer satisfaction, I am happy to give way.Would the honourable
5:21:51 > 5:21:55member recognised that the very highly subsidised European models
5:21:55 > 5:22:02that actually get much lower levels of satisfaction, all they do is
5:22:02 > 5:22:06transfer the burden from the travelling passenger on to the
5:22:06 > 5:22:10entire taxpayer burden? And what we have in the United Kingdom, it is
5:22:10 > 5:22:12not perfect, no system is, but at least we have people using the
5:22:12 > 5:22:17service paying for the service.My honourable friend is absolute right
5:22:17 > 5:22:20and time after time I sit in this house and listen to members opposite
5:22:20 > 5:22:25to really do not understand economics. LAUGHTER
5:22:25 > 5:22:29And do not get how we can pay for these railways and all the demands
5:22:29 > 5:22:33and sweeties and goodies, which you are seeking, the members opposite,
5:22:33 > 5:22:38my apologies, are seeking to give out. If you look at the mainland
5:22:38 > 5:22:41franchise from 1996, a couple of years after franchising occurred,
5:22:41 > 5:22:45there were 14 trains a day between London and Sheffield, and of those
5:22:45 > 5:22:4914 trains, the average time to get between London and Sheffield was two
5:22:49 > 5:22:53hours 26 minutes. With the fastest being two hours ten minutes. We now
5:22:53 > 5:22:57have more than double the number of trains per day on the Midland Main
5:22:57 > 5:23:01line between London and Sheffield, and the average time is quicker than
5:23:01 > 5:23:06the fastest time was 20 years ago. Now I do not want to say that
5:23:06 > 5:23:09everything is perfect. There are many things which can be better
5:23:09 > 5:23:12about the Midland mainline and East Midlands reigns as a whole, but the
5:23:12 > 5:23:16idea, and what I have had from the benches opposite, is as the
5:23:16 > 5:23:19Secretary of State said, complete nonsense, and we should recognise
5:23:19 > 5:23:23much progress has been made in the last 20 years. There is much to do.
5:23:23 > 5:23:26I will not stand here and listen to the kind of nonsense that has
5:23:26 > 5:23:31occurred previously.Like my honourable friend, the member for
5:23:31 > 5:23:34Wigan, I wanted to concentrate my remarks on expressing my
5:23:34 > 5:23:38constituents's concerned about their daily struggle to get to work, which
5:23:38 > 5:23:42is so unlike the picture painted by the Secretary of State earlier,
5:23:42 > 5:23:45which was a very rosy picture. They just want reliable services and
5:23:45 > 5:23:50affordable fares. Which is just not happening under this government's
5:23:50 > 5:23:58failed transport policy. Many people commute from or to Cardiff and
5:23:58 > 5:24:01Bristol and beyond. We have seen remarkable levels of passenger
5:24:01 > 5:24:08growth at seven tunnel, where usage has improved by
5:24:09 > 5:24:13transport links to Bristol, one of the fastest growing economies to
5:24:13 > 5:24:16Bristol outside London, crucial to implement, something the government
5:24:16 > 5:24:19acknowledged in the industrial strategy, which are talked about
5:24:19 > 5:24:23better links between Wales and in Lynn. But services have some years
5:24:23 > 5:24:26now been plagued by reliability problems and overcrowding on the
5:24:26 > 5:24:35services to Bristol and beyond. Computers are completely frustrated.
5:24:35 > 5:24:41Severn tunnel action group show that on half the commuting days in the
5:24:41 > 5:24:53last year there was standing room only at Severn Tunnel Junction.
5:24:53 > 5:25:00Commuters whose fares have gone up by 33% since 2010 feedback
5:25:00 > 5:25:04overcrowding, people fainting on the train, being asked to stand in the
5:25:04 > 5:25:08toilet so more people can get on. At the same time, the government
5:25:08 > 5:25:12announced last year it would extend the great Western franchise to March
5:25:12 > 5:25:192020 and maybe longer. Yes, we are getting electricity and, but what
5:25:19 > 5:25:21was in this announcement that gave anyone any faith that things would
5:25:21 > 5:25:24get better now for commuters? As my honourable friend from Bridgend said
5:25:24 > 5:25:27earlier on, great Western have got the extension without any conditions
5:25:27 > 5:25:31at all. They are rewarding this company without any idea that things
5:25:31 > 5:25:34will get better from my constituents. Where the government
5:25:34 > 5:25:38has an opportunity to help come it hasn't. There is currently a process
5:25:38 > 5:25:41for the Wales and Borders franchise which is dissolved, but the
5:25:41 > 5:25:46government said to the Welsh government, for the purposes of this
5:25:46 > 5:25:51franchise, competition, now cross-border services to Bristol may
5:25:51 > 5:25:55be proposed. This is a missed opportunity, but not washed
5:25:55 > 5:25:59government is planning bold infrastructure projects like the
5:25:59 > 5:26:02South Wales metro, which will improve connectivity, the UK
5:26:02 > 5:26:05Government's approach could not be in stark contrast to the Welsh
5:26:05 > 5:26:08Labour government. A constituent who complained about the services to
5:26:08 > 5:26:12Vista was told recently by great Western, that is just how it is
5:26:12 > 5:26:16nowadays. It shouldn't be. The privatised rail system is not
5:26:16 > 5:26:19delivering, services are getting worse, fares going up, we need the
5:26:19 > 5:26:22government and rail companies to address these problems and take rail
5:26:22 > 5:26:29back into public ownership when the rail franchise has expired.
5:26:29 > 5:26:34Bearing in mind the restrictions of the honourable member for East
5:26:34 > 5:26:42Derbyshire, I'll try not to be Teesdale in my input, -- I'll try
5:26:42 > 5:26:52not to be too stale, but we have heard a lot about the £2 billion
5:26:52 > 5:26:56last with the East Coast franchise, but we haven't yet heard about the
5:26:56 > 5:27:01promises made for the later years of those franchises. We we still see
5:27:01 > 5:27:05from Bradford, from Lincoln, the two hourly trains that were promised
5:27:05 > 5:27:10under those franchises. Are we still going to see the direct train from
5:27:10 > 5:27:13Sunderland? Will we still see the continuing increase in number of
5:27:13 > 5:27:17trains from London King's Cross? There is confusion now not only over
5:27:17 > 5:27:21this franchise but also the trans-Pennine and chives. There's
5:27:21 > 5:27:25lots of speculation they will try to renegotiate because they promised
5:27:25 > 5:27:30£300 million to the Government for a previously subsidised service, will
5:27:30 > 5:27:34they continue to do that? Following on from the remarks on the
5:27:34 > 5:27:37honourable member for Garside, I do think the idea of a public sector
5:27:37 > 5:27:42can Paratore is public lands, Madam Deputy Speaker. Why can they not be
5:27:42 > 5:27:49a public sector come Paratore? I think there was a golden age, under
5:27:49 > 5:27:56a Conservative Government, mostly, on the East Coast when the dominant
5:27:56 > 5:28:03provider was a public service provider until 2015. I do believe in
5:28:03 > 5:28:07open access at the margin. Open access only provides about 1% of
5:28:07 > 5:28:12services and I don't see why that didn't continue under a system where
5:28:12 > 5:28:16the major franchises were in the public sector. No dominant provider,
5:28:16 > 5:28:20whether it's in the public or private sector, is likely to look at
5:28:20 > 5:28:25the needs of small towns like Selby, served by Hull trains, like
5:28:25 > 5:28:35Eaglescliffe, like Hartlepool, soon to be served by an open access
5:28:35 > 5:28:41operator. I hope we don't neglect that under eight Labour Government.
5:28:41 > 5:28:47I would call upon the Government to start talks, we can get a solution
5:28:47 > 5:28:51to the strikes that are affecting my constituents for three days this
5:28:51 > 5:28:55week. In Scotland, a simple solution, the driver opens the door,
5:28:55 > 5:29:00the guard closes the door and maintained safety. It can be
5:29:00 > 5:29:07reached. The Government has a responsibility to reach that. My
5:29:07 > 5:29:12final point, we are still reasonably close to the Christmas season. I
5:29:12 > 5:29:18would ask ministers to fulfil their promises on Boxing Day trains. In
5:29:18 > 5:29:21opposition, they promised they would do something. 58 hours is too long
5:29:21 > 5:29:30to close it all down. They claimed they would run trains to Manchester
5:29:30 > 5:29:36Airport on Boxing Day 2018.They need to act. I would like to engage
5:29:36 > 5:29:39on the issue of franchising work. Next week, radio Cambridgeshire will
5:29:39 > 5:29:45be celebrating 25 years since we started on this journey from British
5:29:45 > 5:29:48rail to anything but British rail and I remember it rather well
5:29:48 > 5:29:52because I remember going to a rail track meeting at the time what I
5:29:52 > 5:29:55thought was a naive question, who will sort out the problems of who's
5:29:55 > 5:29:58responsible when things go wrong? You might have thought that would've
5:29:58 > 5:30:02been thought about them but 25 years on, that is still being argued over.
5:30:02 > 5:30:06When I speak to people in the industry, they tell me about the
5:30:06 > 5:30:12small army of people spend their time not helping passengers, not
5:30:12 > 5:30:14improving the industry, but argue over who is responsible for paying
5:30:14 > 5:30:19when things go wrong. Within that system, so many opportunities to
5:30:19 > 5:30:22game the system, so many opportunities to make sure your
5:30:22 > 5:30:27train is just not quite late enough to incur penalties. I recently made
5:30:27 > 5:30:31a social gaffe at dinner, sitting next to some body from the train
5:30:31 > 5:30:35operating company, asking, what is the point in train operating
5:30:35 > 5:30:39companies? I was thinking, you don't own any trains, you don't own any
5:30:39 > 5:30:45tracks, what do you do? I was told, you sell tickets and we innovate.
5:30:45 > 5:30:49Kind of like ticket touts then? I suspect I won't be invited back.
5:30:49 > 5:30:54That is the problem with many of these people, A, located system.
5:30:54 > 5:30:58Honourable friend have already raised questions around two of the
5:30:58 > 5:31:02routes which serve my city and I'm grateful to the peace in The Sunday
5:31:02 > 5:31:08Times where we learnt a little more about the East Anglia franchise.
5:31:08 > 5:31:12£3.7 billion price tag, managing director was right to describe it as
5:31:12 > 5:31:15scary, but of course that was negotiated in and around the time of
5:31:15 > 5:31:20the referendum in 2016 and, amazingly, renegotiated very
5:31:20 > 5:31:25hurriedly in the days afterwards, completely out of public sight, as
5:31:25 > 5:31:32usual, and then within six months, that company sold a 60% stake of
5:31:32 > 5:31:37itself to a Japanese company. Does that matter? I think it does. These
5:31:37 > 5:31:41are our public companies which are being speculated upon when what we
5:31:41 > 5:31:45actually need is an environmentally sensible, cost-effective, reliable
5:31:45 > 5:31:49transport system that people in my constituency can afford. On the
5:31:49 > 5:31:54other route, we have, I am afraid, in the last few days seen a National
5:31:54 > 5:32:00Audit Office report which has eloquently explained, by some of my
5:32:00 > 5:32:05honourable displayed the appalling levels of service constituent of
5:32:05 > 5:32:08mine are suffering from. Many of them are paying almost £5,000 per
5:32:08 > 5:32:12year for a season ticket, which is a huge amount for the many young
5:32:12 > 5:32:17people in my constituency. In conclusion, I would say to train
5:32:17 > 5:32:21operating companies, look at the station clock. Tick tock, your time
5:32:21 > 5:32:29is up, just like mine.This subject to the opposition debate clearly
5:32:29 > 5:32:34operates how the Government is not operating the vital transport
5:32:34 > 5:32:40infrastructure in the interest of the many. The taxpayer bailout of
5:32:40 > 5:32:45the franchise by the Government is yet more evidence that our railways
5:32:45 > 5:32:49would be better under public ownership. Let us not forget that
5:32:49 > 5:32:53these Coast mainline returned over £1 billion to the Treasury and was
5:32:53 > 5:32:58the best performing network when it was in public hands. It seems that
5:32:58 > 5:33:02this Government is happy to reward failing companies for mismanaging
5:33:02 > 5:33:06our railways. This is not the only way they are failing to deliver on
5:33:06 > 5:33:10transport policy, as the North of England have had a raw deal from
5:33:10 > 5:33:16central Government when it comes to transport spending, with £726 and
5:33:16 > 5:33:27£1083 respectively planned central Government spending in Yorkshire and
5:33:27 > 5:33:30the Humber versus London and the southern England in the next four
5:33:30 > 5:33:33years per person. This money is frittered away on filling the
5:33:33 > 5:33:37pockets of Private companies. Money would be better spent modernising
5:33:37 > 5:33:44ageing infrastructure in places -- holding places like my home city of
5:33:44 > 5:33:49Bradford back. They also have to bear the pain of average fares
5:33:49 > 5:33:53raising more than three times faster than wages. A slap in the face and
5:33:53 > 5:33:57in the pocket on top of years of insult from unfair underinvestment.
5:33:57 > 5:34:01These figures are not acceptable and have far reaching consequences for
5:34:01 > 5:34:05the economy in the North of England and for the prosperity of my
5:34:05 > 5:34:09constituents. It is Whitehall's failure to recognise this last point
5:34:09 > 5:34:16that so enrages me. The North gets trees planted along the 62, London
5:34:16 > 5:34:21gets Crossrail, hardly fair. An independent study of the North's
5:34:21 > 5:34:27untapped potential set out how new investment including HS the Ricoh --
5:34:27 > 5:34:40could unlock up to... Bringing a beast of £53 million to the local
5:34:40 > 5:34:51economy and £1.3 billion to the region as a whole. We are still
5:34:51 > 5:34:57waiting for an electrification of the trans-Pennine Railway. We need
5:34:57 > 5:35:02to bring out railways back into public ownership and to invest
5:35:02 > 5:35:05properly into railways in the north of England. We in Bradford will not
5:35:05 > 5:35:08be full, satisfied or fobbed off with crumbs from the table. Thank
5:35:08 > 5:35:16you.The Secretary of State in his opening remarks said, and I quote,
5:35:16 > 5:35:20let's focus on the things that make a difference to passengers. Well,
5:35:20 > 5:35:23the National audit of its report that was published today amongst the
5:35:23 > 5:35:28many damning things it says, fares, it is not clear whether the
5:35:28 > 5:35:34department considers its approach on passenger services. Warm words but
5:35:34 > 5:35:39no action. Today's and AO report is damaging, revealing that the Thames
5:35:39 > 5:35:45Link, Southern and Northern franchise has failed to deliver.
5:35:45 > 5:35:50Croydon commuters have suffered under the worst performance, with
5:35:50 > 5:35:57more than double the delays and cancellations of the national
5:35:57 > 5:36:02average and the lowest satisfaction rates, yet the Bears have risen
5:36:02 > 5:36:11twice as fast -- the rail fares have risen twice as fast as wages. The
5:36:11 > 5:36:16first scandal in our area is the design of the franchise and the
5:36:16 > 5:36:20decline in performance which it threatens. Though the Thames Link's
5:36:20 > 5:36:25management contract has a guaranteed £1 billion to the operator, while
5:36:25 > 5:36:30the taxpayer shoulders the risk of tickets our revenues. We were
5:36:30 > 5:36:35promised £3.5 billion profit from this franchise, but instead the loss
5:36:35 > 5:36:40to the public purse last year was over £90 million. Madam Deputy
5:36:40 > 5:36:44Speaker, the Member for North East Derbyshire who insulted us all and
5:36:44 > 5:36:47then left claimed that we do not understand economics. There is no
5:36:47 > 5:36:51economic sense in that medal -- model. The abysmal performance
5:36:51 > 5:37:02suffered by commuters in Croydon and inflation beating ticket prices mean
5:37:02 > 5:37:06that its use fell for the first time last year. If commuters continue to
5:37:06 > 5:37:10fall away from these shoddy, overpriced services, less money will
5:37:10 > 5:37:18be available to invest. Network Rail needs £1 billion to make go via
5:37:18 > 5:37:23Thames Link's network fit for purpose. We must alter the track and
5:37:23 > 5:37:26sort out the Windmill bridging Croydon to stop the service from
5:37:26 > 5:37:31collapsing in the future. The Government pointed to the 300
5:37:31 > 5:37:36million that was put in place last year that apparently go towards
5:37:36 > 5:37:40improving the network. Can the Minister confirm how much of the
5:37:40 > 5:37:45taxpayers money will go back to the coppers of go via Thames Link in the
5:37:45 > 5:37:51form of fines for infrastructure failure? My second point is that the
5:37:51 > 5:38:00Government has been shown what fails and has refused to act. The
5:38:00 > 5:38:05Independent given report recommended Southern services, including some
5:38:05 > 5:38:11from Croydon, the transport to DFL as soon as possible because they
5:38:11 > 5:38:17have shown such improvement. Travelling by rail has always been
5:38:17 > 5:38:23something I enjoy, my dad was a railwaymen and when I was nine, my
5:38:23 > 5:38:28family travelled to Italy on holiday by train, exotic in the 1960s. I
5:38:28 > 5:38:33have to use trains twice weekly and it's not often a nice experience. I
5:38:33 > 5:38:37sometimes have to walk all the way across Newark to change trains which
5:38:37 > 5:38:43can take up to half an hour. Our rail network is currently
5:38:43 > 5:38:48unreliable, old, dirty and relies on staff. Often a single coach from
5:38:48 > 5:38:58Newark to Lincoln with no space hope pushchairs, wheelchairs or bikes and
5:38:58 > 5:39:07it does make a sustainable and environmental policy possible. After
5:39:07 > 5:39:13the failure of the UK's mainline, all the local MPs worry that the six
5:39:13 > 5:39:17direct services we have been promised by Virgin Trains in 2019
5:39:17 > 5:39:21might not happen. Lincoln needs the services. Constituents need
5:39:21 > 5:39:26reliable, affordable trains, businesses need to attract customers
5:39:26 > 5:39:30and our tourism needs to attract visitors. Lincoln has just got a
5:39:30 > 5:39:33brand-new transport hub of which we are very proud. It is my hope that
5:39:33 > 5:39:37Lincoln and the rest of this country very soon will get a Labour
5:39:37 > 5:39:40Government which will bring our railways back into public ownership
5:39:40 > 5:39:43so that we get the rail system we need and the kind of Government this
5:39:43 > 5:39:51country deserves.In the time available to me want to confine my
5:39:51 > 5:39:54remarks to two key parts. The first is asking the Minister not to split
5:39:54 > 5:39:57the great Western franchise and instead to focus his time and energy
5:39:57 > 5:40:02on investing in our timeline. George Osborne suggested a Devon and
5:40:02 > 5:40:06Cornwall franchise. It might have won the headlines but it won few
5:40:06 > 5:40:12supporters in the south-west, as splitting Devon and Cornwall would
5:40:12 > 5:40:17confine rail users in the south-west to a second-class service. Labour
5:40:17 > 5:40:21and Conservative MPs oppose this idea but it seems no less and have
5:40:21 > 5:40:24been learned. Instead of focusing on speed, resilience and affordability
5:40:24 > 5:40:30for the far south-west, we are now having to defend another attempt to
5:40:30 > 5:40:32split our franchise. Splitting the West Country services from those
5:40:32 > 5:40:39that go to Wales, it would reduce income, risk investment and fragment
5:40:39 > 5:40:43railways even further. I say to the Minister, please do not do this when
5:40:43 > 5:40:45considering responses to the consultation that you will shortly
5:40:45 > 5:40:49receive. I would like to welcome the Minister to his place there because
5:40:49 > 5:40:53I know he and I will be speaking an awful lot about trains in the coming
5:40:53 > 5:40:56months, especially those around Dawlish. Can I say the priority for
5:40:56 > 5:41:03the great Western franchise is investment, not fragmentation? If
5:41:03 > 5:41:06the Minister has not read the report, encourage him to take bed to
5:41:06 > 5:41:14read it. It recommends improvements in track, signalling all the way
5:41:14 > 5:41:20from Paddington to Plymouth. My friend the Shadow Secretary of State
5:41:20 > 5:41:25has committed £2.5 billion to upgrade our track, but as yet
5:41:25 > 5:41:30ministers have not yet made any such investment or match double-edged. It
5:41:30 > 5:41:34seems that it is only Labour that will invest in a long-term strategy
5:41:34 > 5:41:38for our railways. The speed to the West report which also follows the
5:41:38 > 5:41:42peninsula rail task force report is also something I would recommend the
5:41:42 > 5:41:46Minister now breeds. That recommends cutting the journey times between
5:41:46 > 5:41:49the far south-west and London from three hours 30 minutes from Plymouth
5:41:49 > 5:41:53to London at the moment to two hours 15 minutes. The best intervention on
5:41:53 > 5:42:01that, which would cost £600,000, was mentioned by my honourable friend 40
5:42:01 > 5:42:03by -- for Torbay, was not funded before the deadline ran out at
5:42:03 > 5:42:10Christmas. There is one last chance for the Minister to say we will find
5:42:10 > 5:42:16that £600,000. When London receives billions of pounds for upgrades, the
5:42:16 > 5:42:20far south-west once only £600,000 and we were ignored. I would like to
5:42:20 > 5:42:24ask the Minister to look again at that and its terms. There is
5:42:24 > 5:42:26cross-party support for rail investment in the far south-west but
5:42:26 > 5:42:30there is a sense in the West Country that we are ignored by ministers and
5:42:30 > 5:42:34ignored by this Government. The new trains will come online this year
5:42:34 > 5:42:40and a welcome mat investment but I would welcome news from the Minister
5:42:40 > 5:42:46that we will get the funding we need.
5:42:46 > 5:42:52Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In my constituency, as elsewhere in the
5:42:52 > 5:42:56north-east, the future of our railways is of great interest. We
5:42:56 > 5:43:02have our own experience in our region, the example of a directly
5:43:02 > 5:43:05operated railway, in the East Coast Mainline, a service taken into
5:43:05 > 5:43:11public control following the failure of two contracts in 2009. My
5:43:11 > 5:43:15constituents and others, including honourable and is in this chamber,
5:43:15 > 5:43:18or out campaigning to retain the East Coast Mainline in public
5:43:18 > 5:43:22ownership. Not only have the trains provided a good service, but the
5:43:22 > 5:43:27company had returned £1 billion of premiums to the public purse. That
5:43:27 > 5:43:34is why it was and still is goading to many people in the north-east to
5:43:34 > 5:43:38see the franchise re-franchise, in the fact that the franchise
5:43:38 > 5:43:45represented the best value. No wonder that so many of my
5:43:45 > 5:43:48constituents here were in disbelief when the Secretary of State is now
5:43:48 > 5:43:56looking to turn up the current contract now that the current
5:43:56 > 5:44:01franchises Stagecoach and Virgin, already looking to make their
5:44:01 > 5:44:07anticipated profit, will be walking away with £2 billion under the
5:44:07 > 5:44:11current contract. Hardly surprising then that folk in the north-east are
5:44:11 > 5:44:16in the gastric about Labour's commitment to take back rail
5:44:16 > 5:44:21franchises as they expire. Rail franchising has proved to be
5:44:21 > 5:44:25ineffective and costly, encouraging bidders to submit over optimistic
5:44:25 > 5:44:29and unrealistic bids. It is about time we looked at bringing back rail
5:44:29 > 5:44:34into public ownership, so we get the best possible value and the best
5:44:34 > 5:44:37possible service to passengers from their rail services. And finally, I
5:44:37 > 5:44:43want to referred to the NAA report this morning and the Secretary of
5:44:43 > 5:44:48State's response on that blaming the trade union. It is the Government
5:44:48 > 5:44:52which sets the contract terms and specification for franchising. It is
5:44:52 > 5:44:56the Government which says you don't need a second guard on trains, and
5:44:56 > 5:45:01it is the Government which bears the responsibility for problems in the
5:45:01 > 5:45:03rail industry and the industrial disputes that we face.
5:45:03 > 5:45:12Thank you.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In my region, about Leo is
5:45:12 > 5:45:17running some trends with guards and some without -- Abellio. They plan
5:45:17 > 5:45:21to introduce new trends in East Anglia and are threatening to remove
5:45:21 > 5:45:26the ability of the guards to supervise the closing of the doors.
5:45:26 > 5:45:30I have a great fear that my constituents' travel needs will be
5:45:30 > 5:45:39sacrificed on the altar of the rail operators intransigence. And yet
5:45:39 > 5:45:48Abellio is capable of running trains including closing doors. They can do
5:45:48 > 5:45:51it in Scotland and the Netherlands. The Conservatives say our train
5:45:51 > 5:45:56operators are better than they would be if they are state owned, but many
5:45:56 > 5:46:01of our operators are state owned. They are just not owned by this
5:46:01 > 5:46:04state. Dutch democratic decision takers believe that the passengers
5:46:04 > 5:46:09in their country deserve rail services that involve guards
5:46:09 > 5:46:15ensuring the safe closure of doors. Here in England, Abellio are awarded
5:46:15 > 5:46:19a franchise that is based on the removal of that safety measure, and
5:46:19 > 5:46:23once the franchise is awarded, the Government claims that any
5:46:23 > 5:46:27disruption caused by industrial action is nothing to do with them.
5:46:27 > 5:46:31The franchising system reduces every decision to what the train operator
5:46:31 > 5:46:35can afford to do within the franchise they have agreed. I want a
5:46:35 > 5:46:38railway based on the best interests of the passengers and of our
5:46:38 > 5:46:45country. Thank you. I have had to take the
5:46:45 > 5:46:51beach in's axe to my speech but I will make a couple of points in a
5:46:51 > 5:46:58few moments that I have -- Beechings. I want to take up a
5:46:58 > 5:47:03couple of points which I completely want to disagree with and I think
5:47:03 > 5:47:07fake news. If we look at the evidence and the relative cost of
5:47:07 > 5:47:14train fares in the UK compared with European countries, many of which
5:47:14 > 5:47:18their state operators actually own the franchises, the difference is
5:47:18 > 5:47:23stark, and I don't accept it is about particular fares in peak
5:47:23 > 5:47:27periods. I don't think that is true. It is worth looking at the German
5:47:27 > 5:47:39owned operators. They own Northern Rail, the principal operator in our
5:47:39 > 5:47:47region. 42% of the revenue is made outside of Germany. 93% of the
5:47:47 > 5:47:51investment is in the German railway. So what they are actually doing it,
5:47:51 > 5:47:57they are creating profits here to improve services back in Germany.
5:47:57 > 5:48:03And what is absolutely clear to is since 2010, regulated rail fares
5:48:03 > 5:48:09have risen by 32% on average, and that is three times the average
5:48:09 > 5:48:21median wage growth. We have to take into account average wages and
5:48:21 > 5:48:31factor that into it. The policy of raising regulated fares by the
5:48:31 > 5:48:38retail price index insures above inflation fare rises every year. And
5:48:38 > 5:48:46if we contrast that to the motion I support, we would peg fare rises at
5:48:46 > 5:48:50the consumer prices index and that would save the average season-ticket
5:48:50 > 5:48:56holder £500 over the course of the year. That is not only affecting
5:48:56 > 5:49:00constituents in my region. In the Prime Minister's constituency, the
5:49:00 > 5:49:07average cost of a season ticket from Maidenhead to Paddington has risen
5:49:07 > 5:49:12by £732 since 2010. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think our railways come
5:49:12 > 5:49:17on our railways we pay some of the highest fares in Europe for
5:49:17 > 5:49:23increasingly unreliable and crowded services. That is my experience.
5:49:23 > 5:49:26Passengers, our economy, our environment, need affordable fares
5:49:26 > 5:49:31and reliable services, which I don't think the Tory policy is capable of
5:49:31 > 5:49:37delivering. Labour would take back our railway into public ownership
5:49:37 > 5:49:40and would upgrade and expand the rail network. I would like to
5:49:40 > 5:49:48support the motion. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The
5:49:48 > 5:49:51debate so far demonstrates that privatisation has led to a
5:49:51 > 5:49:55disastrous combination of service failure, and profiteering from
5:49:55 > 5:50:10public subsidy. A focus of the act was to ban her private ownership but
5:50:10 > 5:50:15overseas firms have profited. The Dutch stepped railway runs the
5:50:15 > 5:50:22Greater Anglia and ScotRail franchises. This came about after
5:50:22 > 5:50:24rail franchising powers were devolved Scottish Parliament in
5:50:24 > 5:50:312005. Labour, the TSSA and RMT union appealed to the Scottish Government
5:50:31 > 5:50:42to delay the ScotRail franchise until a public sector bid came in to
5:50:42 > 5:50:47act. This practical measure to accelerate a publicly owned and
5:50:47 > 5:50:51operated railway in Scotland was disregarded by the SNP and as a
5:50:51 > 5:50:55result, we are owned by -- stuck with a railway owned by the Dutch
5:50:55 > 5:51:01state for another decade. In the years that Abellio have been awarded
5:51:01 > 5:51:07the franchise, fares have risen by 12% while wages have risen by 2%.
5:51:07 > 5:51:11Customer satisfaction has not improved. All the while, Abellio
5:51:11 > 5:51:17sends its profits back to being vested in the Dutch network. My
5:51:17 > 5:51:26constituent was once the heart of the rail manufacturing network. Now
5:51:26 > 5:51:36much of the UK's rolling stock is imported from Europe and Japan. A
5:51:36 > 5:51:41restoration of public ownership of rail franchises would be an
5:51:41 > 5:51:45excellent first step towards a wider Renaissance to the industry in a
5:51:45 > 5:51:48nation which gave railways to the world.
5:51:48 > 5:51:55Just before the summer recess, the Government announced they were
5:51:55 > 5:52:06having plans for electrification of the Midlands midline. My
5:52:06 > 5:52:12constituents were fading into the consultation process in good faith.
5:52:12 > 5:52:17But much bigger plans were being put together behind-the-scenes without
5:52:17 > 5:52:23consultation or even a whisper in Whitehall that rail users would lose
5:52:23 > 5:52:29the peak-time Midlands rail service in May. The announcement has hit my
5:52:29 > 5:52:33constituents hard. Many fear they will lose their jobs or have to give
5:52:33 > 5:52:37up work because the changes to the timetable mean they cannot balance
5:52:37 > 5:52:42their lives around family commitments. Rail users nationwide
5:52:42 > 5:52:46have been betrayed by this government but Bedford commuters are
5:52:46 > 5:52:51taking a bigger hit, the most. Passengers from Bedford are being
5:52:51 > 5:52:56forced onto trains which are run by Govia Thameslink who we learned
5:52:56 > 5:53:05today are the worst train operating company in the country. It is clear
5:53:05 > 5:53:08by the NAO's report, that this franchise was awarded to go via by
5:53:08 > 5:53:15the Government, with full knowledge that destruction is very likely and
5:53:15 > 5:53:20Bedford passengers have felt that. There is something fundamentally
5:53:20 > 5:53:28wrong with the franchising process. I expect the Transport Secretary to
5:53:28 > 5:53:34commend to East Midlands rail and Thameslink but Bedford rail users
5:53:34 > 5:53:39are entitled to a reduced fare for the services. Bedford is a growing
5:53:39 > 5:53:44commuter town and the use of services is increasing year-on-year.
5:53:44 > 5:53:51It is marketed as an affordable place to live with a 36 minute
5:53:51 > 5:53:54commute to the capital. In the last five years the fares have gone up by
5:53:54 > 5:54:0125%. I kept the Transport Secretary will now ensure that the new
5:54:01 > 5:54:12franchise includes a new solution for peak-time.
5:54:12 > 5:54:17Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In a country like the UK where we pay
5:54:17 > 5:54:22rail fares five times in proportion of the wages of people in Europe, it
5:54:22 > 5:54:26is no wonder that UK commuters are fed up with rising prices, worse
5:54:26 > 5:54:36services. 76% of people support renationalisation of the railways.
5:54:36 > 5:54:40The Government are in a minority position running a railway for the
5:54:40 > 5:54:45few by the few. In my constituency in High Peak, we have seen since
5:54:45 > 5:54:52Northern Rail took over the franchise just 18 months ago, prices
5:54:52 > 5:54:57for off-peak fares have risen by 43%, hitting commuters, hitting
5:54:57 > 5:55:01students, hitting people who simply need to get to work. When I asked
5:55:01 > 5:55:05Northern Rail why they had seen the need to raise prices so much, they
5:55:05 > 5:55:13simply said because we can. This franchising is a licence to print
5:55:13 > 5:55:16money. It's a licence to rip off commuters. The services that they
5:55:16 > 5:55:20are saying, my constituents tell me, they don't even want a seat on a
5:55:20 > 5:55:25train. Or they want is to be able to stand up and not get pressure
5:55:25 > 5:55:31bruises or have their feet stood on or stand for people crammed in a
5:55:31 > 5:55:34stinking toilets base. Those are the sort of journeys that constituents
5:55:34 > 5:55:40are having to suffer for an hour or more to get to work. The longest
5:55:40 > 5:55:43journey times in Europe. The minister might think it is funny. Is
5:55:43 > 5:55:49he going to ride on one of the commuter trains to my constituency,
5:55:49 > 5:55:55to experience the kind of service my constituents face? Can I ask him to
5:55:55 > 5:55:59address that? The Government don't seem to understand the needs of
5:55:59 > 5:56:03commuters of ordinary working people who need a decent train service, at
5:56:03 > 5:56:08a time when our roads and congestion are overcrowded. There is no
5:56:08 > 5:56:14investment going in where it is needed. On the line from Manchester
5:56:14 > 5:56:18to Sheffield, the most crowded and needed services, we are getting no
5:56:18 > 5:56:22answer from the Department for Transport where a small increased
5:56:22 > 5:56:27capacity scheme has been sacked for 18 months. That is the record of
5:56:27 > 5:56:36this government, failing commuters, failing the British people.
5:56:36 > 5:56:42Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Fares, franchises and a failure, all
5:56:42 > 5:56:46entwined, this is how my honourable friend 's have summarised their
5:56:46 > 5:56:52experience of the railways today. The member for Lincoln, the Member
5:56:52 > 5:56:58for Wigan, the honourable member for Newport East, for High Peak and
5:56:58 > 5:57:02Bedford really brought forth the impact this is having. A rail
5:57:02 > 5:57:06sector, I might add, which is full of fantastic people within it, but
5:57:06 > 5:57:10one which is distracted from its core function of providing
5:57:10 > 5:57:15passengers with affordable access to a fully integrated system, train and
5:57:15 > 5:57:18track, wheel and steel, as well as one that works across the entire
5:57:18 > 5:57:26network and enables full accessible travel. And while the Secretary of
5:57:26 > 5:57:30State defends the broken system, a system that he has made far more
5:57:30 > 5:57:35centralist in its control than even Labour's National rail service will
5:57:35 > 5:57:39be, it is the passengers that have doomed double the gaps, three
5:57:39 > 5:57:43continually having to pay and pay and pay again for the basic purpose
5:57:43 > 5:57:50of voter work or have a day out with the family. And also as we have
5:57:50 > 5:57:54heard pay for the poor performance, as the Member for Croydon Central
5:57:54 > 5:58:01set out for us today. It's not just eased magister highlighting the
5:58:01 > 5:58:05failure for Government, the Member for Cleethorpes also highlighted the
5:58:05 > 5:58:09problems with franchising. To put passengers at the centre should be
5:58:09 > 5:58:19their mantra but sadly it isn't. In a survey, it has been highlighted
5:58:19 > 5:58:23how failure on ticketing is the number one issue for passengers and
5:58:23 > 5:58:29not only the 32% rise in fares since 2010, three times that of wages as
5:58:29 > 5:58:37my right honourable friend the Member for Easington said, the 4.3%
5:58:37 > 5:58:42increase on tickets last year, or 3.6% if you are a season ticket
5:58:42 > 5:58:45holder, everyone believes they are being diddled out of a fair price
5:58:45 > 5:58:49and they are right. Depending on which operator runs your service,
5:58:49 > 5:58:54what time you log on to buy your ticket, what your journey is and on
5:58:54 > 5:59:00what date changes the pricing. When this is coupled with extortionate
5:59:00 > 5:59:03price increases, passengers do ask where their hard earned cash is
5:59:03 > 5:59:08going and it's a good question, so let me tell them. £725 million went
5:59:08 > 5:59:13straight into the pockets of shareholders. Well, Thomas might be
5:59:13 > 5:59:21under the control of the fat controller, today's passengers are
5:59:21 > 5:59:30under control of the fat cats. There the financial haemorrhage to all the
5:59:30 > 5:59:37companies taking their cut, the franchising of trains which take
5:59:37 > 5:59:40money, but this candle pales into insignificance when passengers
5:59:40 > 5:59:46consider that when Richard Branson's virgin gets into a bit of a pickle,
5:59:46 > 5:59:51it goes cap in hand and makes demands on the Secretary of State,
5:59:51 > 5:59:57look how quickly the Secretary of State buckled on this, a point made
5:59:57 > 6:00:07so eloquently by a number of my colleagues. The Department for
6:00:07 > 6:00:11Transport under the Secretary of State's borders set up a franchise
6:00:11 > 6:00:14on the east coast that would involve Network Rail to deliver
6:00:14 > 6:00:20infrastructure upgrades but due to the Government's failed CP five
6:00:20 > 6:00:24process and the scaling down of infrastructure upgrades, Network
6:00:24 > 6:00:28Rail were unable to deliver. The Government didn't even speak to
6:00:28 > 6:00:35Network Rail about this when touting for some operator to rip the service
6:00:35 > 6:00:40out of public hands, which added industry that -- which, out of
6:00:40 > 6:00:46interest, but £1 billion in to the Treasury. Now, it is a service which
6:00:46 > 6:00:48is blindly undeliverable and the Government need to understand it is
6:00:48 > 6:00:59their responsibility. They led the franchise. So, they went to the
6:00:59 > 6:01:04Government to put the pressure on hand have now been let off £2
6:01:04 > 6:01:07billion at the Secretary of State won't come to the dispatch box to
6:01:07 > 6:01:12deny this fact. It's a complete and utter shambles, as are so many other
6:01:12 > 6:01:18services, as we heard from the honourable member for Cambridge,
6:01:18 > 6:01:21Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport today, about the impact services are
6:01:21 > 6:01:26having their communities. Not only are the passengers paying for this,
6:01:26 > 6:01:30they are also having to prop up dodgy deals and they are dodgy
6:01:30 > 6:01:34deals. Look at the way these train operators are working their way
6:01:34 > 6:01:40through the system to get as much money as they possibly can, not just
6:01:40 > 6:01:46out of the ticketing, but also by putting down threats in Government
6:01:46 > 6:01:50and compensation payments. It is a complete scandal. The problems are
6:01:50 > 6:01:55clear for us all to see. They failed, fragmented franchise system,
6:01:55 > 6:01:59Private profits over passenger interests with the resultant decline
6:01:59 > 6:02:04in patronage as we are now seeing and a Secretary of State who refuses
6:02:04 > 6:02:07to put the passengers interests at the heart of the railway. That is
6:02:07 > 6:02:11why Labour will introduce a new public railway, owned by the public,
6:02:11 > 6:02:16working for the public. This is not about going back, as we will not
6:02:16 > 6:02:26revisit the models of railways past, but take us forward. Not just our
6:02:26 > 6:02:28rail service forward, but our economy forward as well, Doreen and
6:02:28 > 6:02:31global best practice. Labour's rail system will be for the many and not
6:02:31 > 6:02:37the view. New lines, more capacity, more seats, more trains, embracing
6:02:37 > 6:02:44digital rail, more space for freight and smart logistics, clean and green
6:02:44 > 6:02:48electrification not a return to dirty diesel planning for the
6:02:48 > 6:02:54long-term and no more start stop funding. The whole railway system
6:02:54 > 6:02:56working as one. Passengers and businesses knowing the deal and
6:02:56 > 6:03:01being at the heart of the deal. As the Member for in this month has
6:03:01 > 6:03:05called for for Wales, but the Member for Glasgow North East has said he
6:03:05 > 6:03:10does not went to see the fragmentation now reintroduced by
6:03:10 > 6:03:17the Scottish Government into the future. Now, as we have heard from
6:03:17 > 6:03:23the Member for Liverpool Walton and Ipswich, it is so important that we
6:03:23 > 6:03:26make our railways safe and we will make it safe and accessible by
6:03:26 > 6:03:35ending the scrapping of the guards and resolve the trade unions are
6:03:35 > 6:03:40calling for today so disabled people can have their dignity restored in
6:03:40 > 6:03:45rail and so women can also feel safe on the trains, both through the day
6:03:45 > 6:03:49and the night. This is the rail service the British people are
6:03:49 > 6:03:54demanding and it will be a Labour Government that deliver it. Now,
6:03:54 > 6:03:58before I sit down, Maher welcomed the new transport minister to his
6:03:58 > 6:04:04place -- may I welcome the transport minister to his place and I hope he
6:04:04 > 6:04:07doesn't try to defend the indefensible in his new role as he
6:04:07 > 6:04:11did earlier this week in his last. We have a transport crisis and we
6:04:11 > 6:04:16need this Government to do something about it or better still, make way
6:04:16 > 6:04:24for a Government who will. Thank you.Minister Joe Johnson.Thank
6:04:24 > 6:04:28you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have had a full and excellent debate this
6:04:28 > 6:04:31afternoon on the important subject of rail franchising and I would like
6:04:31 > 6:04:36to thank the honourable member 's who have welcomed me to this new
6:04:36 > 6:04:39position and I would like to start by paying tribute to my predecessor,
6:04:39 > 6:04:43the right honourable member for Holland and the deep links to
6:04:43 > 6:04:48acquitted himself exceptionally well in this role over a considerable
6:04:48 > 6:04:53period of time. A lot has been said in today's cordial debate, it has
6:04:53 > 6:04:56certainly been a more pleasant debate for me to sit through than
6:04:56 > 6:05:01the urgent question I sat through on Monday, and I will endeavour to
6:05:01 > 6:05:06respond to as many of the points raised as possible. But let me start
6:05:06 > 6:05:12by recapturing on some of what's been achieved. And I want to start
6:05:12 > 6:05:20by looking at privatisation in the round. Last year, and I think the
6:05:20 > 6:05:22statistics are compelling, we published our rail spending
6:05:22 > 6:05:28commitments for the period from 2019 to 2024. We will be investigating
6:05:28 > 6:05:34£48 billion in our railway, as well as investment from private sources.
6:05:34 > 6:05:40My right honourable friend the Member for Derbyshire Dales asked
6:05:40 > 6:05:45for some specific comparisons of the investment between the period 1997
6:05:45 > 6:05:54and 2010 versus the period 2010 to 2020. As we have repeatedly made
6:05:54 > 6:05:58clear, this Government is making the largest investment in our railways
6:05:58 > 6:06:04since the Victorian era. The £48 billion over the five years from
6:06:04 > 6:06:092019, and to give an example of what that means in practice, it means,
6:06:09 > 6:06:14for example, that we will have ordered 7122 vehicles for the
6:06:14 > 6:06:24rolling stock fleet compared to in the period 1997 to 2010, 5000 720. I
6:06:24 > 6:06:28think in a very tangible and practical sense, that gives members
6:06:28 > 6:06:33a feel for the impact that increased investment will be having for
6:06:33 > 6:06:37passengers. Because it means improvements in punctuality and it
6:06:37 > 6:06:44means improvements in reliability for passengers. And, of course, it
6:06:44 > 6:06:48supports thousands of jobs in the supply chain and activity in the
6:06:48 > 6:06:53wider economy. The privatisation of our railways has succeeded.
6:06:53 > 6:06:57Passenger journeys have more than doubled since 1995 and we have a
6:06:57 > 6:07:02claim to being the most improved railway in Europe, as well as the
6:07:02 > 6:07:07safest major railway to. In all of this, this is all happening in what
6:07:07 > 6:07:10is after all one of the oldest railway networks in the world and
6:07:10 > 6:07:16one of the most intensively used. In fact, more people are travelling on
6:07:16 > 6:07:22our railways today in any year since the 1920s on this much smaller
6:07:22 > 6:07:32network and its it is thanks to this success that we are investing £38
6:07:32 > 6:07:39billion up to the period of 2019 and 48 billion in the period to come.He
6:07:39 > 6:07:44has just said that privatisation of our railways has succeeded. Will he
6:07:44 > 6:07:46tell us then whether or not the Government are going to vote against
6:07:46 > 6:07:55the motion this evening? Privatisation is that feeding, we
6:07:55 > 6:07:57can see that as I said in the increased numbers of passengers
6:07:57 > 6:08:03using the network, and the motion speaks for itself. Honourable
6:08:03 > 6:08:09members are welcome to...Thank you. I welcome the new minister to his
6:08:09 > 6:08:14place. I hope he is successful in this job as he was in his last. As
6:08:14 > 6:08:17he is lifting investments, I hope that he will not forget the billion
6:08:17 > 6:08:23pound investment that we are making in the Midland mainline.I certainly
6:08:23 > 6:08:28do welcome that investment in the Midland mainline as one of many
6:08:28 > 6:08:33investments that we are making across the country, part of the £38
6:08:33 > 6:08:38billion that we are spending in the controlled period to 2019 and as I
6:08:38 > 6:08:43said, a further £48 billion to come, meaning new stations and rejuvenated
6:08:43 > 6:08:47older stations. Before Christmas, my right honourable friend the
6:08:47 > 6:08:50Secretary of State set out a new approach to delivering rail
6:08:50 > 6:08:58services. This new approach doesn't require the colossal changes that
6:08:58 > 6:09:02nationalisation would require, keeping the benefits of
6:09:02 > 6:09:04privatisation was keeping vital infrastructure in public hands and
6:09:04 > 6:09:08preparing our railway to meet the challenges of the future. The
6:09:08 > 6:09:12Secretary of State earlier in this debate addressed the accusations
6:09:12 > 6:09:17recently regarding the East Coast franchise. It is wrong to describe
6:09:17 > 6:09:21this as a bailout when Virgin Trains east coast were awarded the
6:09:21 > 6:09:26contract, they committed £165 million to support the business if
6:09:26 > 6:09:31it failed to perform as expected, and as the Secretary of State said,
6:09:31 > 6:09:35we will be holding them to that commitment in full. They have met
6:09:35 > 6:09:38all their commitments to the taxpayer so far and are continuing
6:09:38 > 6:09:43to do so. Make no mistake, we will hold all guarantors including
6:09:43 > 6:09:47Stagecoach to these financial commitments. We have been making
6:09:47 > 6:09:51significant progress with industry, with the Secretary of State's vision
6:09:51 > 6:09:56for the East Coast partnership from 2020 and on plans to meet that
6:09:56 > 6:10:01commitment and we do stand by that commitment in full. I was asked
6:10:01 > 6:10:07about a direct award to virgin Stagecoach, I refer back to the
6:10:07 > 6:10:11answer the Secretary of State gave. My department is preparing
6:10:11 > 6:10:15contingency plans that we do not believe the Virgin Trains East Coast
6:10:15 > 6:10:19franchise will be financially viable three to 2020 and we intend to
6:10:19 > 6:10:25return to the House in due course once those plans are in place. Many
6:10:25 > 6:10:28honourable members raised the issue of affairs. These are at the heart
6:10:28 > 6:10:33of the massive investment going into the railways and it's only right
6:10:33 > 6:10:37this investment is derived not just from tax payers money. Passengers
6:10:37 > 6:10:42benefit from the improvements our investment programme is delivering
6:10:42 > 6:10:54and it's right they make an investment in this.The question is
6:10:54 > 6:11:01that the question now be put. I think the ayes have it. The question
6:11:01 > 6:11:11is as on the order paper. As many as Rob that opinion say, iMac. IMac. Of
6:11:11 > 6:11:18the country, Lowe. The ayes have it, the ayes habit. Point of order,
6:11:18 > 6:11:25Anthony McDonald.
6:11:25 > 6:11:26Madam Deputy Speaker, this Anthony McDonald.
6:11:26 > 6:11:26Madam Deputy Speaker, this motion Anthony McDonald.
6:11:26 > 6:11:29Madam Deputy Speaker, this motion has been passed by the House which
6:11:29 > 6:11:32demonstrates unanimously that the rail franchising system has failed
6:11:32 > 6:11:37and rail should be run in the public sector. When can we expect a
6:11:37 > 6:11:41statement from the Secretary of State to outline his plans to
6:11:41 > 6:11:45outline when to implement the will of the House?The honourable
6:11:45 > 6:11:50gentleman was quite right when he says the House has agreed to the
6:11:50 > 6:11:54motion. The Leader of the House has said previously that on these
6:11:54 > 6:12:00occasions the Secretary of State will return to the House over the
6:12:00 > 6:12:07next few weeks, to indicate to the House what action the Government
6:12:07 > 6:12:14proposes to take, as a result of the motion being passed. There are no
6:12:14 > 6:12:24further points of order. The question is that this housed in our
6:12:24 > 6:12:33journal. -- that this House do now adjourn.
6:12:33 > 6:12:38Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And thank you for the opportunity to
6:12:38 > 6:12:41discuss the portents of Academy division of primary schools in
6:12:41 > 6:12:47Cambridge. I would like to talk about the necessary tea and runs
6:12:47 > 6:12:51bounce of Academy trusts and the Academy process itself.
6:12:54 > 6:13:00This debate is timely. There was a meeting at Saint Philips primary
6:13:00 > 6:13:04school at Romsey ward in the city to determine the future of the school
6:13:04 > 6:13:08after many months of uncertainty. It was the issue of the school and the
6:13:08 > 6:13:13process around it which was raised with me by local parents which
6:13:13 > 6:13:19caused me to take a particularly close interest in this case, and I
6:13:19 > 6:13:23would like to say that the more I have seen of it and the more people
6:13:23 > 6:13:26I have spoken to, the more concerned I have,, hence the request for this
6:13:26 > 6:13:33debate today. I would like to thank those who brought this issue to my
6:13:33 > 6:13:37attention, particularly local parents, but also people involved in
6:13:37 > 6:13:41local education who have spoken to me over the last few weeks, to
6:13:41 > 6:13:46explain what the consequences of this process has been for this city
6:13:46 > 6:13:50and the surrounding areas of the city. I would particularly like to
6:13:50 > 6:13:55thank Rachel Evans of the National education union who has worked
6:13:55 > 6:14:00closely with staff and parents to get the best outcome for the school
6:14:00 > 6:14:04and wider community. I make no criticism of those involved locally
6:14:04 > 6:14:07because I believe they have been doing their very best for the
6:14:07 > 6:14:13school. But it is the process they have been put through which causes
6:14:13 > 6:14:18me concerns and I think should also trouble the Minister. And whatever
6:14:18 > 6:14:23one's view of academies in general, and I will come onto that, there
6:14:23 > 6:14:26must be something wrong when parents, staff and the local
6:14:26 > 6:14:31community feel they are being informed by changes to key local is
6:14:31 > 6:14:43dilution but not in any way involved -- a key local institution. A school
6:14:43 > 6:14:48is a key part of the fabric of our local communities and we know
6:14:48 > 6:14:55schools do better when they are a part of their community with close
6:14:55 > 6:14:59parental involvement. I was, like many of us, a school governor for
6:14:59 > 6:15:03many years, chair of governors at a voluntary aided Junior School in a
6:15:03 > 6:15:08small market town for ten years. I have also known this particular
6:15:08 > 6:15:17school, St Philip's, over a number of years. It is not a school that I
6:15:17 > 6:15:19would have had concerns about but it did experience a bit in results and
6:15:19 > 6:15:24couple of years ago and the problem following that I am told where there
6:15:24 > 6:15:32was much too long a delay in replacing an outgoing headteacher.
6:15:32 > 6:15:36It is important to reflect white text so long to recruit good
6:15:36 > 6:15:42headteachers. It is no easy task. But, and this has been demonstrated
6:15:42 > 6:15:47in the swift recovery of results, it is quite clearly a school with a
6:15:47 > 6:15:52bright future. I would like to commend the comments made by parents
6:15:52 > 6:15:56in their recent and considered responses to the recent
6:15:56 > 6:16:02consultation. A strong view urges that the school has improved
6:16:02 > 6:16:05dramatically. That leads to the question, if it is improved, why the
6:16:05 > 6:16:11need now for further change which in itself might be destabilising? And
6:16:11 > 6:16:14as I also do not criticise the interim executive board who are put
6:16:14 > 6:16:18in place, because I think they too have been following their
6:16:18 > 6:16:22understanding of the procedure, but what a flawed procedure it is.
6:16:22 > 6:16:30Parents informed by letter of a consultation when the outcome is
6:16:30 > 6:16:32assumed to be academisation, and no sense of any other alternative being
6:16:32 > 6:16:36put on offer. And when parents asked what say they had in this, the
6:16:36 > 6:16:40response being pretty much, yes, you can express an opinion but this is
6:16:40 > 6:16:48what is going to happen. Today's special meeting was only inviting
6:16:48 > 6:16:52organisations to make presentations in favour of academisation, and
6:16:52 > 6:16:59quite rightly I think, parents did protest, I protested, and I am
6:16:59 > 6:17:04pleased to say that the IEB did invite people in with local views,
6:17:04 > 6:17:07-- other views, including local councillors. I do not know what the
6:17:07 > 6:17:13outcome of that meeting is and I suspect parents do not know yet
6:17:13 > 6:17:18either. It really should not have needed protests to be put. It is not
6:17:18 > 6:17:23clear what other options are being considered. The apparently preferred
6:17:23 > 6:17:39option from the outset was joining the local buses and -- local trust.
6:17:39 > 6:17:44Should a city school be swallowed up by a sprawling organisation over a
6:17:44 > 6:17:51huge geographic area, and one whose effectiveness is by no means
6:17:51 > 6:17:57convincing to people in the area? And what about the concerns of many
6:17:57 > 6:18:13in an area with a very diverse catchment area, but moved to a trust
6:18:13 > 6:18:18is very concerning. Those who have expressed their Christian faith have
6:18:18 > 6:18:24raised this point. What consideration has been given that
6:18:24 > 6:18:35schools should stay within the local authority. Local people were not
6:18:35 > 6:18:41offered any of these choices, only a one-way path to academisation. What
6:18:41 > 6:18:52would a minister say to parents who say they do not want their child
6:18:52 > 6:18:57taught by unqualified teachers? How does that parent get a say and how
6:18:57 > 6:19:00do they influence a decision. What if every parent in the school shared
6:19:00 > 6:19:14that view? The answer is not very obvious. I think St Philip's
6:19:14 > 6:19:20illustrates a wider problem with multi-card me trusts. They take
6:19:20 > 6:19:25public money but they are not widely accountable to their communities. We
6:19:25 > 6:19:30know local authorities can be flawed but they are by definition
6:19:30 > 6:19:35accountable. You can vote them out and get rid of academies. --
6:19:35 > 6:19:43councillors. Academies do not have to have local people on their
6:19:43 > 6:19:48boards. I am told by one emerging multi-Academy trust, but when they
6:19:48 > 6:19:53sought to include local authority representation on their board, they
6:19:53 > 6:19:57were told by the Department fridge and that they could not. Maybe the
6:19:57 > 6:20:01Minister could confirm whether that is the case or not, and if it is,
6:20:01 > 6:20:07why locally elected representatives are so excluded. -- the Department
6:20:07 > 6:20:16for Education. Some multi-Academy trusts in my area do have boards
6:20:16 > 6:20:19full of impressive management figures and business figures and
6:20:19 > 6:20:23they are impressive. We are fortunate because my area has such
6:20:23 > 6:20:27people available. But what they are singularly lacking in people who
6:20:27 > 6:20:31work on the front line, the parents, teachers, the school meal
6:20:31 > 6:20:40supervisors, the people who know what is on. I might mischievously
6:20:40 > 6:20:43suggest that the current Education Secretary takes a look at these
6:20:43 > 6:21:01boards. And if he looks, and this is a depressing situation, as he looks,
6:21:01 > 6:21:06he will come across an array of Mission statements and management
6:21:06 > 6:21:15gobbledygook. Pursuit of excellence, uniting with a common purpose, an
6:21:15 > 6:21:19outstanding education for all children is at the heart of our
6:21:19 > 6:21:22vision. I know they have to do it and I even
6:21:22 > 6:21:26have some sympathy for the poor people having to sit down and draft
6:21:26 > 6:21:32a lot of this drivel, but it is nonsense and we all know it. It may
6:21:32 > 6:21:37give us a chuckle when we are watching W one A, but this is the
6:21:37 > 6:21:41real world, it is not honest. Honesty in times of really tight
6:21:41 > 6:21:48budgets, not Silicon Valley vomit inducing fluff. Honesty would say
6:21:48 > 6:21:52something like: trying to make ends meet and retain teachers for more
6:21:52 > 6:21:57than 18 months, in a high cost area, through being part of the inspiring
6:21:57 > 6:22:00community which works together. Some people are trying to do just
6:22:00 > 6:22:04that, but you have to read between the lines of the waffle to discern
6:22:04 > 6:22:09it. And nowhere on those glossy newly branded websites do you find
6:22:09 > 6:22:14what you really want to know, just how many unqualified teachers are
6:22:14 > 6:22:24being employed? Just what changes have been made to the terms and
6:22:24 > 6:22:27conditions of those employed? Just what changes have been made when the
6:22:27 > 6:22:29school moves away from the National Curriculum? That is what should be
6:22:29 > 6:22:32up there in lights, the truth. There is a further problem which the
6:22:32 > 6:22:36Cambridge experience has highlighted, with multi-card me
6:22:36 > 6:22:39trusts, their complex structures make local accountability extremely
6:22:39 > 6:22:46difficult. -- multi-Academy trusts. They are overseen by the regional
6:22:46 > 6:22:48schools Commissioners, another extraordinary Opec structure largely
6:22:48 > 6:22:55invisible to parents in the wider world. And in my view, slightly
6:22:55 > 6:23:02curious role that given that this government abolished regions. They
6:23:02 > 6:23:07do not talk to the media. Unsurprisingly, schools going
6:23:07 > 6:23:11through this process are reluctant to speak to the media. So it is not
6:23:11 > 6:23:15much of the prize that many people in the local community have any idea
6:23:15 > 6:23:20what is going on. That may well suit the Government's purposes. But it is
6:23:20 > 6:23:24a rotten way to run public services in a democracy and it will come
6:23:24 > 6:23:28unstuck. It does rather begs the question. What is it that the
6:23:28 > 6:23:35Government are so afraid that the public might find out? And in
6:23:35 > 6:23:37passing, Cambridge people are suddenly waking up to the fact that
6:23:37 > 6:23:42through these subterranean and opaque processes, Cambridge will now
6:23:42 > 6:23:47be a beneficiary of a new free school run by none other than Mr
6:23:47 > 6:23:53Toby Young. I'm sure that Cambridge will want none of that. And perhaps
6:23:53 > 6:23:57the Minister can also give some guidance on how that can be stopped.
6:23:57 > 6:24:02Why does this matter? Because the system spends and allocates public
6:24:02 > 6:24:05money to educate children. Why should parents and communities not
6:24:05 > 6:24:10be able to simply and quickly ask questions and get answers.
6:24:10 > 6:24:15Multi-Academy trust are bound to release reports periodically. They
6:24:15 > 6:24:18do not give information for parents and local community members would
6:24:18 > 6:24:25like to see. As I suggest, academies work to different rules to locally
6:24:25 > 6:24:30supported school so can we ask how it is going? I asked the Minister
6:24:30 > 6:24:35tonight, how many an qualified teachers are there? How have terms
6:24:35 > 6:24:40and conditions changed and what impact has that had on pupils'
6:24:40 > 6:24:44education? I hope the Minister will be able to answer that if he cannot,
6:24:44 > 6:24:49why not? And if he cannot, who can? Why are parents and communities
6:24:49 > 6:24:55being kept in the dark? Beyond those practical questions, there is the
6:24:55 > 6:24:59wider question of what schools are for. Primarily, they are to educate
6:24:59 > 6:25:02children to help them fulfil their potential and flourish and equip
6:25:02 > 6:25:06them with the schools and knowledge for their lives. But they are also
6:25:06 > 6:25:11more than this. They're also community hubs to bring people
6:25:11 > 6:25:15together, to allow a neighbouring families to have conversations, to
6:25:15 > 6:25:21hold community events and hold spaces which the local community can
6:25:21 > 6:25:27access. Have seen the work done at schools which have been stricken by
6:25:27 > 6:25:30austerity and underfunding. There was support that a school in
6:25:30 > 6:25:35Southwark gave to local refugees far beyond the call of duty. We must
6:25:35 > 6:25:40stop seeing schools as places blinkered by assessment and wrote,
6:25:40 > 6:25:50but environments for proper development. We need a vision to see
6:25:50 > 6:25:53beyond a single cohort, to give community is the means to hold
6:25:53 > 6:25:58schools accountable for the people they serve. And further still,
6:25:58 > 6:26:03within this fragmented and opaque system, there are costs as well. The
6:26:03 > 6:26:07emergence of multi-Academy trusts has led to competition between
6:26:07 > 6:26:11academies to gather further schools into their organisation. Instead of
6:26:11 > 6:26:14working collaboratively for the public good, we have organisations
6:26:14 > 6:26:18eyeing each other up, eager to pick up schools which may have had a
6:26:18 > 6:26:29blip. Even better if
6:26:38 > 6:26:40they have some financial reserves. Maybe should be more like football
6:26:40 > 6:26:43or a transfer window, when schools have a period of the year when they
6:26:43 > 6:26:45do not need to be fighting off predators. In my constituency, there
6:26:45 > 6:26:48are eight trusts all vying for growth. There will be people working
6:26:48 > 6:26:50on marketing and brand development and they will be paying audit fees.
6:26:50 > 6:26:53As always, it is public money which is being spent and it has resulted
6:26:53 > 6:26:55in a system of overlapping opaque organisations using the public purse
6:26:55 > 6:27:00in a way which no one locally understands. It is reminiscent in
6:27:00 > 6:27:03fact of what happened to the National Health Service under the
6:27:03 > 6:27:06last Conservative government. I remember Frank Dobson having to come
6:27:06 > 6:27:10and clear up the mess and famously sent to competing trusts: first and
6:27:10 > 6:27:22foremost you are all part of the NHS and providing health care has to
6:27:22 > 6:27:25come first. I would say Academy trusts have to be redirected back to
6:27:25 > 6:27:34the purpose of education and the public good.
6:27:34 > 6:27:40The professional support offered to schools was a very important
6:27:40 > 6:27:44resource and it should continue to be. I don't want to see a system
6:27:44 > 6:27:48where the process of attrition is no longer available to the schools who
6:27:48 > 6:27:52need them. I would like to conclude by looking forwards because
6:27:52 > 6:27:57fortunately, I think it is possible to see a way to adapt existing
6:27:57 > 6:27:59structures and improve local accountability and representation.
6:27:59 > 6:28:04Bringing some of these trusts together, rebranding them as the
6:28:04 > 6:28:10education service, adding the voices of parent governors and trade union
6:28:10 > 6:28:13represented his weird greatly improve these organisations for the
6:28:13 > 6:28:17communities that fund them and which they serve and would improve
6:28:17 > 6:28:22transparency. In turn, that would rebuild public trust and embed
6:28:22 > 6:28:26schools within the communities rather than impose new rules without
6:28:26 > 6:28:30communication. I have to say, some of us saw all of this coming which
6:28:30 > 6:28:35is why in the election last year there was a new vision on offer, one
6:28:35 > 6:28:38similar to that I've just outlined and the Labour manifesto said, we
6:28:38 > 6:28:43will impose any attempt for all schools to become academies and we
6:28:43 > 6:28:46will ensure all schools are democratically accountable including
6:28:46 > 6:28:56controls to show they work within the community. In my opinion, those
6:28:56 > 6:28:58who send their children to the local schools and work within the
6:28:58 > 6:29:02community are best placed to be involved within them, a point best
6:29:02 > 6:29:08made by the Shadow Minister of education, and I can say with
6:29:08 > 6:29:12confidence that that is how a number of people filling Cambridge, those I
6:29:12 > 6:29:17have spoken to. Parents and staff at Saint Philips and in other schools
6:29:17 > 6:29:20around Cambridge likely to find themselves embroiled in similar
6:29:20 > 6:29:25conversations in coming months well I hope the given reassurances from
6:29:25 > 6:29:30the Education Secretary tonight, a new Education Secretary which gives
6:29:30 > 6:29:33the opportunity for a new start working with communities rather than
6:29:33 > 6:29:39against them. Sadly, this is so much a conversation about structures when
6:29:39 > 6:29:43it would be better if we were talking about standards and what is
6:29:43 > 6:29:46needed to support, encourage and inspire the teachers that we know
6:29:46 > 6:29:50are the real key to those higher standards and about how to pay them
6:29:50 > 6:29:55sufficiently to be able to live in high-cost areas like Cambridge and
6:29:55 > 6:29:59to stay, rather than go, as happens all too often. I hope tonight that
6:29:59 > 6:30:03they will hear that the Minister has heard and that the messages that we
6:30:03 > 6:30:07will work with you, help you to improve, not that the only way is
6:30:07 > 6:30:11academies and buy one route or another, because that is what it has
6:30:11 > 6:30:18felt like in Cambridge and I fear in far too many other places as well.
6:30:18 > 6:30:22Can I start by congratulating the honourable member for Cambridge on
6:30:22 > 6:30:27securing this debate? It is timely, as it allows me to outline why
6:30:27 > 6:30:31academies are important elements in the Government's success and drive
6:30:31 > 6:30:37in raising standards in our schools. Today, there are 1.9 million more
6:30:37 > 6:30:42pupils in schools graded by Ofsted as good or outstanding and there
6:30:42 > 6:30:48were in 2010. Standards are rising in our secondary schools, standards
6:30:48 > 6:30:52are rising in our primary schools, teachers have more autonomy now to
6:30:52 > 6:30:58run their schools. Hundred and 4000 more 60 rods are reading effectively
6:30:58 > 6:31:03as the consequence of the hard work of teachers but also the reforms
6:31:03 > 6:31:07implemented by this Government. There are more young people taking
6:31:07 > 6:31:12double or triple science today, 91% entered for those GCSEs today than
6:31:12 > 6:31:17in 2010 when 63% were taking that combination. So we are a Government
6:31:17 > 6:31:20determined to raise academic standards right across the system in
6:31:20 > 6:31:24our schools and the reason we are having this debate today, the reason
6:31:24 > 6:31:27the honourable gentleman is raising these issues all stems from the fact
6:31:27 > 6:31:33that Cambridgeshire County Council were concerned about standards at
6:31:33 > 6:31:36Saint Philips Catholic primary School and that is why they issued a
6:31:36 > 6:31:41warning notice to the school and it is from that that we have the
6:31:41 > 6:31:44establishment of the interim executive board who are now
6:31:44 > 6:31:47consulting with parents about converting the school into an
6:31:47 > 6:31:53academy to be run by a Academy trust and they are consulting with
6:31:53 > 6:31:57parents, there have been many hundreds of responses to the
6:31:57 > 6:32:01consultation process, and they have extended the time over that
6:32:01 > 6:32:03consultation process, so they do want to work with the local
6:32:03 > 6:32:08community and they do want to work with parents, to hear parental
6:32:08 > 6:32:11views, but the overriding objective of the regional schools commissioner
6:32:11 > 6:32:15and this Government and Cambridgeshire County Council is to
6:32:15 > 6:32:20see standards improving all our schools right across the country.
6:32:20 > 6:32:24Since 2010, the number of schools benefiting from Academy freedoms in
6:32:24 > 6:32:29this country has grown from 200, when the last Labour Government left
6:32:29 > 6:32:36office, to more than 7000 and this is a system, the professional
6:32:36 > 6:32:40autonomy that academies and brings, that started under the last Labour
6:32:40 > 6:32:44Government and we have built on that process to give autonomy to run
6:32:44 > 6:32:47schools free from political interference and to raise standards
6:32:47 > 6:32:52and we have now reached the point where 7000 schools now have that
6:32:52 > 6:32:56professional autonomy and that academy status. More than one third
6:32:56 > 6:33:01state funded schools are now part of multi Academy trust and the Mahdi
6:33:01 > 6:33:07Academy trust model is a powerful vehicle for raising academic
6:33:07 > 6:33:13standards by sharing, for example, a financial back-office and its skills
6:33:13 > 6:33:17and facilities, teaching resources and partnering the best of our state
6:33:17 > 6:33:21funded schools with schools which is struggling. Two thirds of our
6:33:21 > 6:33:26academies are what are known as converter academies, good schools
6:33:26 > 6:33:32which made the decision to convert, and many of these have converted
6:33:32 > 6:33:36multi Academy trusts, helping other schools to improve. A further 2000
6:33:36 > 6:33:42schools have become academies with a sponsor in order to raise the
6:33:42 > 6:33:45education they are providing. Since 2014, the number of multi Academy
6:33:45 > 6:33:54trusts has doubled and 79% of all academies are in a multi Academy
6:33:54 > 6:34:00trust, with 62% of those in a multi Academy trusts of five or more
6:34:00 > 6:34:06schools. Over 450,000 pupils now study in good or outstanding
6:34:06 > 6:34:09sponsored academies which were previously typically underperforming
6:34:09 > 6:34:18schools. Pupils in secondary converter schools are making more
6:34:18 > 6:34:22progress for their students than in other types of schools and 90% of
6:34:22 > 6:34:30converter academies are rated as good or outstanding. And for sponsor
6:34:30 > 6:34:34academies, since 2010, 60 5% of the schools which were previously
6:34:34 > 6:34:39inadequate when under local authority control are now rated good
6:34:39 > 6:34:43or outstanding since becoming a sponsored Academy when an inspection
6:34:43 > 6:34:47has taken place. A good example of what Academy sponsorship is able to
6:34:47 > 6:34:52achieve is the Harris Academy in Battersea, which is the highest
6:34:52 > 6:34:58performing sponsored Academy in England. In 2017, it had a progress
6:34:58 > 6:35:05eight score of 1.49, placing it in the top 1% of all schools. The
6:35:05 > 6:35:09National foundation for educational research reported that sponsored
6:35:09 > 6:35:13academies are significantly more likely to be rated as outstanding
6:35:13 > 6:35:18compared to similar local authority maintained schools. The professional
6:35:18 > 6:35:22autonomy of academy status leads to a more dynamic and responsive
6:35:22 > 6:35:26education system, giving headteachers the opportunity to make
6:35:26 > 6:35:30decisions based on the interests of their pupils and medical need and it
6:35:30 > 6:35:35allows high performing schools to spread that excellence across to
6:35:35 > 6:35:38other schools. The Government is determined to raise academic
6:35:38 > 6:35:42standards by encouraging evidence -based teaching, building on a
6:35:42 > 6:35:45knowledge rich curriculum and providing teachers and school
6:35:45 > 6:35:51leaders with the autonomy to drive school improvement. I circumspect
6:35:51 > 6:36:00the Minister would like -- I suspect the honourable member would like to
6:36:00 > 6:36:06intervene.I would put to him the essential part in my speech again,
6:36:06 > 6:36:10that where you have a school which has recovered, the results are good,
6:36:10 > 6:36:14it's doing well, there's clearly strong support for it as in this
6:36:14 > 6:36:17case, why would you want to further destabilise it when there is such
6:36:17 > 6:36:21strong support in the local community for it to stay of it is?
6:36:21 > 6:36:26As I said, in 2016, Cambridgeshire County Council issued the school
6:36:26 > 6:36:31with a warning notice and it is to ensure sustainability of standards
6:36:31 > 6:36:35that the interim executive board was established. They are consulting on
6:36:35 > 6:36:38next steps, they have taken the decision that they think it's best
6:36:38 > 6:36:42for the school to become an academy under the dioceses. They are
6:36:42 > 6:36:47consulting on that decision, they are taking parents views into
6:36:47 > 6:36:52account, they had a meeting today and they will continue to go through
6:36:52 > 6:36:56that progress. Overall in Cambridgeshire, 97% of all secondary
6:36:56 > 6:37:02schools are now academies all three schools and we expect this to be
6:37:02 > 6:37:08100% soon. One third of primary schools are academies or three
6:37:08 > 6:37:16schools. We expect that to rise over this year as well. For the
6:37:16 > 6:37:20honourable gentleman's constituency, there are six secondary schools,
6:37:20 > 6:37:23five are an academy and the remaining school intends to become
6:37:23 > 6:37:30an academy this term. Just two of the primary schools are either an
6:37:30 > 6:37:33academy or a free school and for primary schools are going through
6:37:33 > 6:37:38the progress -- process of joining a multi Academy trust. This is
6:37:38 > 6:37:43significantly lower than elsewhere in Cambridgeshire. In September 20
6:37:43 > 6:37:4782% of primary schools in Cambridge where they did good or outstanding
6:37:47 > 6:37:53by Ofsted and in November last year this has risen to 91%, above the
6:37:53 > 6:37:58national average. Four of five secondary academies have positive
6:37:58 > 6:38:04progress eight schools, including part of the Cambridge educational
6:38:04 > 6:38:10trust which is in the top 1% of schools nationally and was greeted
6:38:10 > 6:38:21by Ofsted recently as being outstanding.
6:38:26 > 6:38:34They have received approval to establish two new free schools
6:38:34 > 6:38:36including a specialist asthmatic school in Cambridge working in
6:38:36 > 6:38:39partnership with the University. I will happily give way to the
6:38:39 > 6:38:45honourable gentleman. -- a specialist mathematics school.I
6:38:45 > 6:38:49appreciate his generosity. I tried not to single out individual
6:38:49 > 6:38:53organisations apart from the one that had still related this debate
6:38:53 > 6:38:56but I would take the opportunity on the back of that eulogy once again
6:38:56 > 6:39:01did that to the Minister, here's not taking the opportunity to answer any
6:39:01 > 6:39:06other questions I posed. How many unqualified teachers are being
6:39:06 > 6:39:13employed? What to conditions are being made in the multi Academy
6:39:13 > 6:39:17trusts that he referred to? It's hard to know how to find out.The
6:39:17 > 6:39:23multi Academy trusts, the early dioceses Mahdi Academy trust, does
6:39:23 > 6:39:36not use unqualified teachers -- the early dioceses multi Academy trust.
6:39:36 > 6:39:40Nationally, 95% of teachers are qualified and those who do not have
6:39:40 > 6:39:43qualified teacher status generally have the knowledge or experience to
6:39:43 > 6:39:48bring to the school which is why the school has employed them. Where
6:39:48 > 6:39:50standards have not met expectations, the regional schools Commissioner
6:39:50 > 6:39:56and the local authority will work together to target and performance
6:39:56 > 6:40:01and action has been taken to ensure sustainable school improvement,
6:40:01 > 6:40:04including requiring poorly performing schools to join multi
6:40:04 > 6:40:08Academy trusts. For example, North Cambridge Academy, formerly Manor
6:40:08 > 6:40:12community college has been transformed by Cambridge Meridian
6:40:12 > 6:40:19Academy trust. It began as a school in special measures and is now
6:40:19 > 6:40:24graded as good with progress in the top 30% nationally. I am aware the
6:40:24 > 6:40:28gentleman has been involved in the Saint Philips Church of England
6:40:28 > 6:40:32aided school in Cambridge and as I said, the local authority
6:40:32 > 6:40:34established an executive board at the request of the former governing
6:40:34 > 6:40:39body which felt unable to address the performance concerns at the
6:40:39 > 6:40:43school. Part of the interim executive board role has been to
6:40:43 > 6:40:47consider the long-term future of the school and their decision on the
6:40:47 > 6:40:51future of the school is being considered again, as I said, at the
6:40:51 > 6:40:58meeting today. This will then -- this will include the option of
6:40:58 > 6:41:03academisation following discussions with parents. I know the honourable
6:41:03 > 6:41:11gentleman met with them to discuss the future of the school. There is a
6:41:11 > 6:41:14strong relationship between the school and the regional schools
6:41:14 > 6:41:22Commissioner and they met on a regular basis. Can I just conclude
6:41:22 > 6:41:25by saying that standards and our primary schools and secondary
6:41:25 > 6:41:31schools are rising? 1.9 million more children are attending school that
6:41:31 > 6:41:35are good or outstanding than in 2010 and the academisation programme the
6:41:35 > 6:41:39honourable gentleman has been talking about has been key to
6:41:39 > 6:41:45raising those academic standards. The question is that this House do
6:41:45 > 6:41:51now adjourned. As many are that opinions they aye. Aye. The ayes
6:41:51 > 6:41:54have it.