19/01/2018

0:00:00 > 0:00:07Next don't that is extraordinarily considerate.

0:00:16 > 0:00:19I would like to make a further statement on the parole board

0:00:19 > 0:00:27decision to release John Worboys. I know the victims have suffered

0:00:27 > 0:00:31considerable trauma. The prospect of the release of this man is deeply

0:00:31 > 0:00:34concerning to them, to members of this House and to members of the

0:00:34 > 0:00:39wider public. I believe I omit to those victims and the public to

0:00:39 > 0:00:43consider all the options open to me as Secretary of State for Justice. I

0:00:43 > 0:00:48took the step of seeking legal advice from specialist leading

0:00:48 > 0:00:50counsel to establish whether there were grounds to challenge this

0:00:50 > 0:00:58decision in the courts and to ask the courts to stop the release of

0:00:58 > 0:01:01Worboys before the decision was reconsidered. Let me set out my

0:01:01 > 0:01:08approach to judicial review in general. There should not be a

0:01:08 > 0:01:11challenge that has no reasonable prospect of success. It is right

0:01:11 > 0:01:15that public bodies can be held to account for their actions through

0:01:15 > 0:01:20due process of law and specifically judicial review. There has been

0:01:20 > 0:01:22significant public debate about the possible basis for a legal challenge

0:01:22 > 0:01:27in a case such as this. It has been speculated that there are two

0:01:27 > 0:01:31grounds open to me to challenge such a decision. The decision was one

0:01:31 > 0:01:36that nobody could reasonably have taken, or that there were

0:01:36 > 0:01:39considerable procedural failings in the way that that decision was

0:01:39 > 0:01:43taken. The bar for a judicial review to succeed is very high. The test

0:01:43 > 0:01:49for deciding if a decision is unreasonable is not simply that the

0:01:49 > 0:01:53decision maker, in this case the parole board, could have made an

0:01:53 > 0:01:57alternative decision, but that no reasonable person would have come to

0:01:57 > 0:02:03the same conclusion on the facts upper case. Similarly, on procedure,

0:02:03 > 0:02:07it would be necessary to identify failing to follow that process by

0:02:07 > 0:02:13the parole board that would have had a material impact on the decision.

0:02:13 > 0:02:17Having taken considered an expert legal advice, I have decided that it

0:02:17 > 0:02:21would not be appropriate for me as Secretary of State to proceed with

0:02:21 > 0:02:25such a case. Honourable members will appreciate that I can go further and

0:02:25 > 0:02:30expose details of the legal advice I have been given. I know this will

0:02:30 > 0:02:34disappoint the victims in this case and members of this House. Given the

0:02:34 > 0:02:40crimes for which he has been convicted, on a personal level,

0:02:40 > 0:02:44candidly, I share those concerns. I have taken a close personal interest

0:02:44 > 0:02:48in this case since assuming office as the Secretary of State for

0:02:48 > 0:02:52Justice. I believe it is important that all the victims have clarity as

0:02:52 > 0:02:56soon as possible, which is why I am before the House today. I can

0:02:56 > 0:03:01reassure the House and the public that Worboys will not be released

0:03:01 > 0:03:10until his licence conditions have been finalised. I understand that

0:03:10 > 0:03:14contact with victims has taken place this week, and further meetings

0:03:14 > 0:03:19about his release will take place next week. This will have given

0:03:19 > 0:03:23those victims the opportunity to make representations to the parole

0:03:23 > 0:03:26board as to the conditions to which Worboys should be subject on

0:03:26 > 0:03:32release. Let me be absolutely clear, Worboys will not be released until

0:03:32 > 0:03:35their representations have been properly considered and his licence

0:03:35 > 0:03:40conditions are in place. Indeed, last week, I asked for assurances

0:03:40 > 0:03:44that the views of victims were being taken into account and that robust

0:03:44 > 0:03:51licensing conditions would be put in place to manage his risk. I am aware

0:03:51 > 0:03:55that some third parties have indicated that they are seeking to

0:03:55 > 0:03:59bring legal proceedings themselves, and that correspondence has been

0:03:59 > 0:04:02served on me as Secretary of State as a potential interested party to

0:04:02 > 0:04:09any litigation. I fully support the right of victims to take their own

0:04:09 > 0:04:12legal advice and to challenge the decision. The approach I'm taking

0:04:12 > 0:04:16does not mean that others who may have significant interest in the

0:04:16 > 0:04:21case are precluded from taking action. Each case depends on the

0:04:21 > 0:04:26circumstances of each individual ringing a claim. And that is one of

0:04:26 > 0:04:29the reason I do not intend to save more on this matter. I would not

0:04:29 > 0:04:35want to prejudice any legal challenges by commenting further on

0:04:35 > 0:04:39the facts of the particular case or the legal advice I have received. I

0:04:39 > 0:04:43will be taking advice on how my department should consequently

0:04:43 > 0:04:46engage in any proceedings, but it would not be appropriate to comment

0:04:46 > 0:04:50further at this stage. It is vitally important that the public and

0:04:50 > 0:04:54victims have confidence in the justice system that is there to

0:04:54 > 0:04:58serve them. This case has exposed some issues with the parole process

0:04:58 > 0:05:04as a whole. I have already indicated that aspects of the parole process

0:05:04 > 0:05:08more generally should be examined. In my statement on the 9th of

0:05:08 > 0:05:12January, I said my department would review the case for transparency in

0:05:12 > 0:05:16the review parole board decisions, how victims are communicated with,

0:05:16 > 0:05:18and how they are appropriately engaged in that process. I now

0:05:18 > 0:05:24believe that review should go further. I have therefore expanded

0:05:24 > 0:05:32the terms of reference of the review to consider guidance in practice on

0:05:32 > 0:05:35parole board decision making. I have published these today and have

0:05:35 > 0:05:42placed a copy in the catlike house library. I have expanded the review

0:05:42 > 0:05:44to consider whether there should be a mechanism to allow parole

0:05:44 > 0:05:48decisions to be reconsidered, and how that might best be achieved

0:05:48 > 0:05:51whilst retaining the independence of the decision-making process. This

0:05:51 > 0:05:56review remains a priority for me and the Government. Despite the

0:05:56 > 0:06:01significant expansion of the terms of reference, I intend to complete

0:06:01 > 0:06:07that review before Easter. I also acknowledge the concerns that the

0:06:07 > 0:06:10victim contact scheme operated by the National probation service may

0:06:10 > 0:06:14not have worked as well as it should have in this particular case. It is

0:06:14 > 0:06:20right that as well as looking at the process around parole decisions for

0:06:20 > 0:06:24all cases that we consider whether existing processes were followed in

0:06:24 > 0:06:31this instance. I have therefore ask Dame Glenna Stacey, Her Majesty's

0:06:31 > 0:06:36Chief Inspector of probation, to conduct a rapid fact-finding

0:06:36 > 0:06:42exercise to find out whether the existing processes, policies and so

0:06:42 > 0:06:46forth were adequately followed by the parole board in this case. Her

0:06:46 > 0:06:50findings will inform the wider review. Mr Speaker, as I have said,

0:06:50 > 0:06:55I know members of the House are concerned about this case and how we

0:06:55 > 0:06:59deal with the release of offenders. I hope this has reassured all

0:06:59 > 0:07:02members of the thorough and careful consideration I have made this

0:07:02 > 0:07:06difficult case, and that we are now giving serious and urgent

0:07:06 > 0:07:12consideration to ways in which the process can be improved that

0:07:12 > 0:07:16reassures not only the victims of these terrible crimes but the wider

0:07:16 > 0:07:21public.Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I thank the Secretary of

0:07:21 > 0:07:25State for prior sight of his statement. Two weeks ago it was

0:07:25 > 0:07:29announced that John Worboys would be released from prison. In those two

0:07:29 > 0:07:37weeks, it has been absolutely clear, the victims of the vile crimes

0:07:37 > 0:07:40committed by Worboys feel that our criminal justice as has let them

0:07:40 > 0:07:45down. Our system must ensure that it has the victims of crime at its

0:07:45 > 0:07:51core. When it fails to do so, it affects not just the direct victims

0:07:51 > 0:07:54themselves but risks undermining wider public trust in our justice

0:07:54 > 0:08:04system. As Labour has reiterated since the news of the release of

0:08:04 > 0:08:08John Worboys was announced, it is important that the Secretary of

0:08:08 > 0:08:19State does everything in his power... Many will be disappointed

0:08:19 > 0:08:24by today's news. It is understood that legal advice can't be shared,

0:08:24 > 0:08:28and the minister does not want to prejudice other cases being brought.

0:08:28 > 0:08:32But today's news makes the need for changes in the parole board even

0:08:32 > 0:08:38more pressing. The current rules permit either the Secretary of State

0:08:38 > 0:08:40for victims to bring judicial review. Many will have seen that

0:08:40 > 0:08:45they are doing and that they have attracted much public support for

0:08:45 > 0:08:50their fundraising for this. Judicial review is a key tool for every

0:08:50 > 0:08:55citizen to be able to challenge unjust or unlawful decisions by the

0:08:55 > 0:09:01state or other public bodies. Cuts to legal aid have undermined the

0:09:01 > 0:09:04ability of many to pursue judicial review. I would request that the

0:09:04 > 0:09:13Government today use its review into this to see how it can support

0:09:13 > 0:09:18judicial review. Any judicial review would look at whether the parole

0:09:18 > 0:09:22board decision was taken properly. If not, it would go back to the

0:09:22 > 0:09:27parole board to look at this again. As it stands, the current rules mean

0:09:27 > 0:09:30that we would not know the reasons for any subsequent parole board

0:09:30 > 0:09:39decision. As we have repeatedly said on the side of the Us, there is no

0:09:39 > 0:09:43need to debate whether there is a case for greater transparency. It

0:09:43 > 0:09:47should be a practical review that looks at how to ensure the public is

0:09:47 > 0:09:52informed of the reasons behind parole board decisions. Just as the

0:09:52 > 0:09:56public is clear about court judgments, it needs to beat able to

0:09:56 > 0:10:01be clear about decisions of the parole board. Greater transparency

0:10:01 > 0:10:05has widespread support, so we welcome the widening of the review

0:10:05 > 0:10:11announced today, and especially a mechanism to allow parole board

0:10:11 > 0:10:14decisions to be reconsidered whilst retaining its independence. People

0:10:14 > 0:10:19were shocked that some of the victims found out about the decision

0:10:19 > 0:10:24of the release of Mr Worboys through the media. Labour has said from the

0:10:24 > 0:10:28outset that it is totally unacceptable and very concerning

0:10:28 > 0:10:31that someone not given the opportunity to participate in the

0:10:31 > 0:10:39parole board hearing, as is their right. The victim contact scheme is

0:10:39 > 0:10:43responsible for informing victims of significant changes in the case,

0:10:43 > 0:10:47including parole board hearing. This is managed by the National probation

0:10:47 > 0:10:50service, which has experienced significant difficulties, especially

0:10:50 > 0:10:57case overload, since the reform to probation services in 2014. Labour

0:10:57 > 0:11:01had called in this House for the Government to look into the failings

0:11:01 > 0:11:05in the MPS and victim contact scheme, so it is a step forward that

0:11:05 > 0:11:14the minister has now asked Dame Glenys Stacey to conduct a

0:11:14 > 0:11:17fact-finding exercise into the role of the MPS. He needs to also ensure

0:11:17 > 0:11:21that this answers the questions being asked on whether his

0:11:21 > 0:11:30Government's wholly negative changes to the probation service contributed

0:11:30 > 0:11:36to failings, and how he plans to address them. It is clear that

0:11:36 > 0:11:40concerns are not limited to the decisions or indeed the functioning

0:11:40 > 0:11:46of the parole board. Labour has repeatedly stated that the Worboys

0:11:46 > 0:11:50case raises so many serious questions that anything less than an

0:11:50 > 0:11:54independent end to end review of the handling of the case from the first

0:11:54 > 0:11:57report to the police of an attack right through to the parole board

0:11:57 > 0:12:03hearing would let down the victims and the wider public. Labour has

0:12:03 > 0:12:09repeatedly called for this wider enquiry but it is not clear why the

0:12:09 > 0:12:11Secretary of State for Justice has repeatedly refused this demand. It

0:12:11 > 0:12:20is reasonable and rational, and it would help build public trust. I

0:12:20 > 0:12:26hope that he would take this opportunity to reassure this House

0:12:26 > 0:12:33that he will undertake this end to end review.Can I thank the

0:12:33 > 0:12:39honourable gentleman for his questions. In the context of wanting

0:12:39 > 0:12:47to ensure that the victims' position is supported, I think he was right

0:12:47 > 0:12:52to focus on the areas he did. And I'm grateful for his not pressing

0:12:52 > 0:12:57need further on the facts or legal advice. In terms of the matter is

0:12:57 > 0:13:02that he raised, it is right that the victims are treated with concern,

0:13:02 > 0:13:10with sympathy, and that all due processes are followed. In terms of

0:13:10 > 0:13:14this particular case, I think we need to have a proper understanding

0:13:14 > 0:13:17of precisely what happened and whether the support was provided in

0:13:17 > 0:13:27the way that it should have been. That's why I'm pleased that Dave is

0:13:27 > 0:13:34-- Dame Glenys Stacey is undertaking a fact-finding mission. I understand

0:13:34 > 0:13:40the need for greater transparency in parole board decisions. I know that

0:13:40 > 0:13:43one of the things that frustrates victims is the sense that they don't

0:13:43 > 0:13:47get to know what is happening and the reasons why the parole board has

0:13:47 > 0:13:51reached the decision that it has reached. Equally, I think it can be

0:13:51 > 0:13:55a frustration for the parole board that they are not able to articulate

0:13:55 > 0:14:01the reasons why they have reached a particular decision. I share that in

0:14:01 > 0:14:04sick. I think we need to look carefully at this, but I think we

0:14:04 > 0:14:08need to move swiftly on this matter, which is what I intend to do. In

0:14:08 > 0:14:13terms of an end to end review, my focus has been on these issues

0:14:13 > 0:14:16transparency and victim support. I think they are the immediate issues

0:14:16 > 0:14:23in front of us. I recognise that there is a debate about the original

0:14:23 > 0:14:34investigation. There is a debate about how these IPP sentences

0:14:34 > 0:14:38operated, though they have been abolished. It is important to focus

0:14:38 > 0:14:49in terms of our reviews on how these matters are dealt with, as a

0:14:49 > 0:14:57priority.It is very clear, Mr Speaker, and may I wish you a happy

0:14:57 > 0:14:59birthday, that my right honourable friend the Lord Chancellor has

0:14:59 > 0:15:04applied himself to what is a very serious and troubling case with the

0:15:04 > 0:15:08greatest scrupulousness and care, and he is to be commended for having

0:15:08 > 0:15:17applied a difficult legal test of what is ultimately a legal decision.

0:15:17 > 0:15:24Will he agree a political decision that could be made as soon as

0:15:24 > 0:15:28possible is to change the parole Board balls to the them to give

0:15:28 > 0:15:39reasons for their decisions Krachunov Parole Board rules. And

0:15:39 > 0:15:45will be a great reassurance to victim is and the public.

0:15:45 > 0:15:52That is a good point. It is right that we fully understand the full

0:15:52 > 0:16:01implications of greater transparency within the Parole Board. It is not

0:16:01 > 0:16:09my desire we find a position whereby as a matter of course offenders,

0:16:09 > 0:16:17where the Parole Board is taking a particular firm line because on the

0:16:17 > 0:16:22evidence somebody should not be released, but we need to understand

0:16:22 > 0:16:25the full implications. There is a case for much better

0:16:25 > 0:16:33transparency. Can I welcome this statement and the

0:16:33 > 0:16:43decision to widen the remit of the review. Has he be informed if the

0:16:43 > 0:16:46CPS and police are reviewing the other serious allegations against

0:16:46 > 0:16:50John Warboys and if there is any chance of further chances being

0:16:50 > 0:16:54brought against him before he is released? This is the question

0:16:54 > 0:17:06victim want answered. -- victim is. That is a matter for

0:17:06 > 0:17:10the CPS and Metropolitan Police and I don't think there is anything I

0:17:10 > 0:17:19can say to inform the House on that. I should declare during my 17 years

0:17:19 > 0:17:25in the Treasury Solicitor Department I acted for the Secretary of State

0:17:25 > 0:17:27and Parole Board and sometimes both together.

0:17:27 > 0:17:34I commend this detailed work on this case and would ask him to reassure

0:17:34 > 0:17:40us not only will the views of statutory victim is be taken into

0:17:40 > 0:17:51account but the wider group of victim is known to the authorities.

0:17:51 > 0:17:57There are different systems in place for the statutory victim is versus

0:17:57 > 0:18:08others but in this case where there are a large number of people who are

0:18:08 > 0:18:14victim is but not in respect of the fit Coates convictions that John

0:18:14 > 0:18:21Warboys had, we need to ensure the system works them as well.

0:18:21 > 0:18:25Following his previous statement this month, I raised the importance

0:18:25 > 0:18:29of competence in our justice system and my fear is the decision not to

0:18:29 > 0:18:37judicially review this will not give reassurance. He has talked about

0:18:37 > 0:18:41greater transparency but I want to press him on the point the

0:18:41 > 0:18:49honourable member for Bromley has made, will he commit to changing the

0:18:49 > 0:18:53statutory balls so decisions are open not just in this case but

0:18:53 > 0:19:02future cases? -- statutory rules. The intention is

0:19:02 > 0:19:08to look at increasing transparency. I will come back to the House with

0:19:08 > 0:19:19more detailed proposals.Can I urge him to write to the CPS and ask them

0:19:19 > 0:19:26to undertake a review. It may be the public interest test was not

0:19:26 > 0:19:30satisfied because there was an indeterminate sentence and the

0:19:30 > 0:19:38change in circumstances may mean that test is now satisfied the cases

0:19:38 > 0:19:46that were not prosecuted. Could he give that undertaking?In

0:19:46 > 0:19:52terms of accountability for decisions on prosecutions, that is

0:19:52 > 0:20:01not an area which is under my responsibility. But I very much

0:20:01 > 0:20:07understand and sympathise with the point made, and I know this is an

0:20:07 > 0:20:18issue which the Attorney General is focused.

0:20:18 > 0:20:25Will he be looking at how the CPS and police deal with cases where

0:20:25 > 0:20:30there are, where it comes to light their further victims in cases of

0:20:30 > 0:20:36serious like this? John Warboys was convicted of sexual assaults on 12

0:20:36 > 0:20:42women but there are over 85 others who came forward afterwards and that

0:20:42 > 0:20:50needs to be looked at for similar events where that might occur.

0:20:50 > 0:20:59This is a fair point on the record. I refer to my earlier answer.

0:20:59 > 0:21:08Clearly in terms of whether there is a public interest case to bring

0:21:08 > 0:21:12further prosecutions, no doubt that is something both the police and CPS

0:21:12 > 0:21:19will want to consider. It is essential we recognise and

0:21:19 > 0:21:23respect the independence of our legal system but also recognised the

0:21:23 > 0:21:27public are disappointed and angry with the Parole Board decision. Does

0:21:27 > 0:21:33he agree by opening up the decisions and making them more transparent,

0:21:33 > 0:21:37even if the public still disagree, they will have an understanding how

0:21:37 > 0:21:45that decision was reached? That is a very good point. The

0:21:45 > 0:21:50direction that as a society we have gone in has generally been towards

0:21:50 > 0:21:56greater transparency. As Professor Nick Hardwick who was one of the

0:21:56 > 0:22:01first to make this point, there is a case in this context of the Parole

0:22:01 > 0:22:06Board as well. Whilst we understand the desire not

0:22:06 > 0:22:14to prejudice possible actions, in his previous letter in January a

0:22:14 > 0:22:20public letter, he states the victims were not contacted until October. He

0:22:20 > 0:22:25knows the concern it is not just about updating them but involving

0:22:25 > 0:22:30them in decisions. Can he give an assurance participation will be

0:22:30 > 0:22:43looked at and he will publish the date when contact was made?

0:22:43 > 0:22:48This is what will be investigated and I have no doubt it will be made

0:22:48 > 0:22:55public in her conclusions. It is important victims are involved. In

0:22:55 > 0:23:02this case, they are involved in terms of making representations on

0:23:02 > 0:23:08licensing conditions. It is appropriate due weight is given to

0:23:08 > 0:23:15this. My constituents believe the best way

0:23:15 > 0:23:19to protect the public is for violent offenders to be kept behind bars and

0:23:19 > 0:23:25they take the honourable view if an offender is sentenced to a term of

0:23:25 > 0:23:29imprisonment they should serve that in prison in full before being

0:23:29 > 0:23:32released. Given this is a statement about the

0:23:32 > 0:23:38transparency of the Parole Board decisions, who and how is held to

0:23:38 > 0:23:45account in the Parole Board if those released early reoffend?

0:23:45 > 0:23:55In terms of the numbers of re-offences, those numbers are put

0:23:55 > 0:24:00into the public domain. That is one of the tests of the effectiveness of

0:24:00 > 0:24:05the Parole Board. It is clearly a priority for all of us that people

0:24:05 > 0:24:10who are dangerous are not released. The test for a Parole Board in the

0:24:10 > 0:24:17context of one of these IAPP business is an assessment of their

0:24:17 > 0:24:22risk to the public.

0:24:26 > 0:24:33The Shadow Minister is right, this case raises wider issues from the

0:24:33 > 0:24:37offence being committed to the process of parole. Can he tell us

0:24:37 > 0:24:44when he will bring forward the Bill promised in 2015?

0:24:44 > 0:24:57What I can say is I am receiving advice on what we can do to make

0:24:57 > 0:25:00progress on this matter. I hope to update the House in due course. I

0:25:00 > 0:25:07agree victims the vitally important in the system.

0:25:07 > 0:25:13Thank you for the detailed estimation for the decision. I

0:25:13 > 0:25:16welcome his comments on further transparency which will increase

0:25:16 > 0:25:24public confidence and the confidence of victims in the system. How soon

0:25:24 > 0:25:30does he anticipate changes can be made?

0:25:30 > 0:25:33The review even though it has been broadened and we are looking more

0:25:33 > 0:25:39widely not just at transparency but whether there should be opportunity

0:25:39 > 0:25:45for the Parole Board to look again at decisions, that review will

0:25:45 > 0:25:49report by Easter, depending on what it recommends will determine the

0:25:49 > 0:25:56timing but I am keen to make progress as quickly as possible.

0:25:56 > 0:26:01Can I welcome the extension of the review announced today but I do

0:26:01 > 0:26:07think there are serious questions about the way police and the CPS

0:26:07 > 0:26:10operated in this. I don't think it is satisfactory to leave it to the

0:26:10 > 0:26:15police and CPS. There is a Home Office minister

0:26:15 > 0:26:20that, I want to know what the Home Office and Attorney General office

0:26:20 > 0:26:24under -- Are doing to look at the early stages as to whether this man

0:26:24 > 0:26:28should be charged with further offences?

0:26:28 > 0:26:31I know the Home Secretary and Attorney General had been very

0:26:31 > 0:26:37focused on this case. What I would say is my focus has been on the

0:26:37 > 0:26:44immediate issues and that does relate to the consideration of

0:26:44 > 0:26:48judicial review but also issues of transparency and support for victim

0:26:48 > 0:26:56is. Of course, there are questions that do need to be asked about how

0:26:56 > 0:27:01the system which this Government has abolished, how that operated in

0:27:01 > 0:27:05terms of whether it met the test of honesty and sentencing.

0:27:05 > 0:27:15That is for another day.Recognising the importance of the independence

0:27:15 > 0:27:22of the judiciary but considering in this case the crimes, the victims

0:27:22 > 0:27:27public concern, can he assured he has looked into all the options in

0:27:27 > 0:27:35this case? Yes, I can give that assurance and

0:27:35 > 0:27:40without dwelling on the details of the reasons I have set out before,

0:27:40 > 0:27:47given very long, close and serious consideration to my options.

0:27:47 > 0:27:51He is rightly concentrating on the issue of transparency in his remarks

0:27:51 > 0:27:58but he referred to the fact there are some victims court in legal

0:27:58 > 0:28:05proceedings because legal aid has been severely restricted. Would he

0:28:05 > 0:28:08please look again at the availability of civil legal aid for

0:28:08 > 0:28:13judicial review? In the context of legal aid

0:28:13 > 0:28:28generally she will be aware there is currently a review on that.

0:28:30 > 0:28:34It is reassuring the Lord Chancellor despite only being imposed a short

0:28:34 > 0:28:40time has sought to get behind the Viktor of this terrible case. Can I

0:28:40 > 0:28:44push him on the point about legal aid. He mentioned he supports the

0:28:44 > 0:28:50rights of the victim is to pursue their own case. Will there be

0:28:50 > 0:28:54discretion from the legal aid agency to provide funding for them to do

0:28:54 > 0:29:02so? First, in terms of the action

0:29:02 > 0:29:10brought, that may be brought by victims on this, I want to be

0:29:10 > 0:29:15careful in my remarks. Just because I am not taking action

0:29:15 > 0:29:20does not mean others cannot because these legal cases can depend upon

0:29:20 > 0:29:29precisely what the position they are in. It is the case legal aid

0:29:29 > 0:29:32generally remains available for advice, assistance and

0:29:32 > 0:29:38representation in relation to judicial review. And that would

0:29:38 > 0:29:41include decisions of the Parole Board where there is sufficient

0:29:41 > 0:29:51benefit to the individual. We all respect the independence of

0:29:51 > 0:29:59the judiciary but there needs to come transparency.

0:29:59 > 0:30:03Will he agreed the outcome of this review must be greater transparency

0:30:03 > 0:30:04in terms of Parole Board decisions?

0:30:10 > 0:30:13IsI'm grateful to my honourable friend for his question. The

0:30:13 > 0:30:16direction we are moving in this towards greater transparency. There

0:30:16 > 0:30:21are some details we need to master and fully understand, but I think

0:30:21 > 0:30:29the direction of travel is clear. Can I welcome the extended review

0:30:29 > 0:30:32which the Justice Secretary just announced. But would he confirmed to

0:30:32 > 0:30:36the House that it will include a very detailed assessment of the

0:30:36 > 0:30:42decision-making processes that the parole board go through, with

0:30:42 > 0:30:46particular reference to expert reports from people like Doctor

0:30:46 > 0:30:49Jackie Chrissie Arty in this case, which are at the heart of these

0:30:49 > 0:30:56decisions, to make sure that they are suitable to give the expert

0:30:56 > 0:31:04advice that they give?Clearly, this is going to be a broad review in

0:31:04 > 0:31:11terms of how the parole board works. So, clearly, in terms of considering

0:31:11 > 0:31:18how it operates, the importance of particular expert evidence is going

0:31:18 > 0:31:29to be part of that process.I also might welcome the Lord Chancellor's

0:31:29 > 0:31:32statement and the decision to expand the review. He will of course be

0:31:32 > 0:31:39aware that this is not the first such case, and I would just to his

0:31:39 > 0:31:43attention the case of a serial child exploitation offender released after

0:31:43 > 0:31:47a 20 year sentence only five years after his trial. His victims felt

0:31:47 > 0:31:53the victim contact scheme let them down. Will he consider this case as

0:31:53 > 0:32:00part of his expanded review?In terms of generally looking at how

0:32:00 > 0:32:05the victim contact scheme works, I would certainly be interested to

0:32:05 > 0:32:10receive more information from my honourable friend, but certainly, if

0:32:10 > 0:32:14there are other examples where questions have been raised, then

0:32:14 > 0:32:23that is clearly something the review will need to take into account.

0:32:23 > 0:32:29Thank you, Mr Speaker. On that same note, I welcome the Secretary of

0:32:29 > 0:32:33State's response to what is a sensitive and emotive issue. It

0:32:33 > 0:32:39highlights that they need to listen to victims is so important. Could

0:32:39 > 0:32:44the Minister give assurances that this will be looked at? Is it fit

0:32:44 > 0:32:51for purpose? And was it adequately followed by the parole board?In

0:32:51 > 0:32:55terms of how the victim contact scheme worked in this particular

0:32:55 > 0:33:01case, you know, frankly, there are... There are different views

0:33:01 > 0:33:09that have been put to me. There is conflicting evidence, and that is

0:33:09 > 0:33:13why I think it is absolutely right that we have that review by Dame

0:33:13 > 0:33:17Glenys Stacey, so that we can properly understand what happens

0:33:17 > 0:33:25here, and therefore what lessons can be learned from it.I welcome the

0:33:25 > 0:33:30Justice Secretary's commitment to a broader review and appreciate that

0:33:30 > 0:33:35he has set himself a pretty aggressive timeline for this, so if

0:33:35 > 0:33:38the end result is generally going to be better reflection of the views of

0:33:38 > 0:33:42victims, can he assure me that the review itself will engage the

0:33:42 > 0:33:48victims?Yes, I think it is absolutely essential that victims

0:33:48 > 0:33:57are engaged in this process.I think that all members across this House

0:33:57 > 0:34:00recognise and appreciate my right honourable friend's candour with the

0:34:00 > 0:34:04house, but for the sake of all victims, will he make sure that all

0:34:04 > 0:34:08appropriate and measured steps are taken to make sure he's never put in

0:34:08 > 0:34:15this position again?I think the most important thing is not my

0:34:15 > 0:34:18position but the position of victims, and clearly, we need to

0:34:18 > 0:34:24ensure that victims have a system which they have faith in. Sometimes

0:34:24 > 0:34:32these can be difficult challenges in terms of making sure that where

0:34:32 > 0:34:38there are large numbers of victims, that their voices properly heard.

0:34:38 > 0:34:41Victims, I think, are entitled to have their voices heard, and we have

0:34:41 > 0:34:46to make sure we have a system that works for them.I am most grateful

0:34:46 > 0:34:53to the Secretary of State for the statement and two colleagues for

0:34:53 > 0:35:01the... The house will now returned to the homes fitness for habitation

0:35:01 > 0:35:06bill.Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is good to be back debating the bill

0:35:06 > 0:35:11again and to follow the honourable member for Wells and good

0:35:11 > 0:35:18contributions from members from both sides. Can I welcome the Minister to

0:35:18 > 0:35:23her new post and to the dispatch box for the first time today. I am glad

0:35:23 > 0:35:28to see her first outing is on this important bill. She came to this

0:35:28 > 0:35:32post from the whip's office, of course, so if any of her colleagues

0:35:32 > 0:35:40at the back play, she is the ideal woman to sort them out. Can I give

0:35:40 > 0:35:46the warmest welcome and strongest congratulations to my honourable

0:35:46 > 0:35:50friend, the member for Westminster North. Her speech, I think, showed

0:35:50 > 0:35:55just why and how she is one of the House's best experts and strongest

0:35:55 > 0:36:02voices on housing. This is her bill. It is not a hand-out bill from the

0:36:02 > 0:36:06Government, not a bill from outside organisations, and over a long

0:36:06 > 0:36:10period, my honourable friend has put together the case and the content

0:36:10 > 0:36:14for this bill, and she has built the coalition of support behind this

0:36:14 > 0:36:23bill. From the residential landlords Association to Citizen's Advice and

0:36:23 > 0:36:27the chartered Institute of environmental health. I should make

0:36:27 > 0:36:36special mention of Shelter who made the call for this change in their

0:36:36 > 0:36:47report four years ago, Safe And Decent Homes. And I would like to

0:36:47 > 0:36:50thank the Government for its backing. I'm sure ministers will do

0:36:50 > 0:36:54all they can to make sure it progresses through the Lords and

0:36:54 > 0:36:59onto the statute books. I have to say from the Labour side, this is

0:36:59 > 0:37:03something of Groundhog Day, especially for my honourable friend.

0:37:03 > 0:37:08Three years ago, she brought a similar bill to the House which the

0:37:08 > 0:37:12Government blocked. Two years ago, from our front and led by my

0:37:12 > 0:37:19honourable friend the member for errors and Thamesmead, the same

0:37:19 > 0:37:27changes were proposed and the Government voted them down. The

0:37:27 > 0:37:30Secretary of State and the Prime Minister voted against that change

0:37:30 > 0:37:35on that day. So, today's Conservative change of mind is

0:37:35 > 0:37:40important, and it is significant. It is important because this bill is

0:37:40 > 0:37:45important. It gives all tenants, Private, counsel, housing

0:37:45 > 0:37:48association, the right to take action in the courts if their

0:37:48 > 0:37:53landlord fails to let them keep a property fit for human habitation,

0:37:53 > 0:38:03fit for people to live in. That means homes safe from fire, homes

0:38:03 > 0:38:10with adequate heating, homes free of vermin, constant condensation or

0:38:10 > 0:38:17mould. This is so basic. And in this day and age, it's extraordinary that

0:38:17 > 0:38:21currently landlords have no such obligation to their tenants, and in

0:38:21 > 0:38:24practice, tenants can often do nothing about such serious hazards

0:38:24 > 0:38:31that affect their health and their safety. This bill is important also

0:38:31 > 0:38:38because it deals with a really big problem is: Desperately bad,

0:38:38 > 0:38:42indefensible standards that are widespread. Over 1 million rented

0:38:42 > 0:38:48properties which are home to 2.5 million people have these downright

0:38:48 > 0:38:52dangerous category one hazards. Nearly 800,000 households are

0:38:52 > 0:38:59private renteders. A further 244,000 live in council or housing

0:38:59 > 0:39:06association properties. New Labour analysis from the data of the

0:39:06 > 0:39:09English Housing service released yesterday shows that almost 700,000

0:39:09 > 0:39:15children are growing up in homes that are plagued by damp, mould,

0:39:15 > 0:39:21dangerous electrics or extreme cold, with all the cost is to their health

0:39:21 > 0:39:23and welfare that my honourable friend and others from both sides

0:39:23 > 0:39:30have spelt out to the House so far. Councils can of course act. They can

0:39:30 > 0:39:35act to help private or housing association tenants, but half of all

0:39:35 > 0:39:43councils last year served just one or no enforcement notices. One

0:39:43 > 0:39:48especially active London council served almost half of all the

0:39:48 > 0:39:56notices nationally last year. In Stephen Battersby's report, that

0:39:56 > 0:40:00council wasn't identified, but I suspect it's not unconnected with my

0:40:00 > 0:40:05honourable friend. My own counsel in Rotherham has over the last year

0:40:05 > 0:40:08trebled the number of inspections they carry out under the Housing

0:40:08 > 0:40:18health and safety ratings system. 721 last year found in half those

0:40:18 > 0:40:21properties a category one hazards, and they prosecuted six, but only

0:40:21 > 0:40:26six, of the landlords. Can I offer the Minister perhaps four questions

0:40:26 > 0:40:32to work on alongside the passage of this bill? First, will she make a

0:40:32 > 0:40:38commitment to increase funding for local council enforcement, as both

0:40:38 > 0:40:41sides have called for so far in this debate, to help reverse the deep

0:40:41 > 0:40:46Government cuts to the council since 2010? Second, will she confirmed

0:40:46 > 0:40:49that legal aid will be available for tenants taking action to get their

0:40:49 > 0:40:55landlord to do the work needed? And will she extend legal aid to help

0:40:55 > 0:40:59tenants claim damages? Fourth, during the housing and planning

0:40:59 > 0:41:06Bill, we from the Labour front bench force the Government to change the

0:41:06 > 0:41:12bill to make regular electrical safety checks mandatory? That has

0:41:12 > 0:41:17been lawful to years Daniil when will it be implemented? The breadth

0:41:17 > 0:41:22of support for this bill is both a tribute to my honourable friend, but

0:41:22 > 0:41:28is also telling, especially from the residential landlords Association

0:41:28 > 0:41:31and the National landlords Association. The large majority of

0:41:31 > 0:41:33landlords take their responsibilities seriously and they

0:41:33 > 0:41:37make sure problems for their tenants are sorted out promptly. This bill

0:41:37 > 0:41:43reinforces what landlords should already be doing. And I'm glad to

0:41:43 > 0:41:47say, it follows similar legislation already in place in Wales through

0:41:47 > 0:41:55their 2016 renting homes act. I said this bill was both important and

0:41:55 > 0:42:00significant. It is a policy and political landmark to have

0:42:00 > 0:42:04Conservative ministers backed a Labour bill to tighten regulation to

0:42:04 > 0:42:13help people who rent. It was a former housing chairman and Tory

0:42:13 > 0:42:20vice party chairman who opposed this change, saying, it will result in

0:42:20 > 0:42:25unnecessary regulation and cost the landlords. This was part of the

0:42:25 > 0:42:30prevailing conservative approach to market regulation, based on the in

0:42:30 > 0:42:37the miss two out, one in rule. Conservative backing for this bill

0:42:37 > 0:42:45is welcome and a significant shift. I will, of course.Thank you. I'm

0:42:45 > 0:42:50really grateful to my honourable friend forgiving way. He is making a

0:42:50 > 0:42:53powerful statement. Does he agree with me that the Government should

0:42:53 > 0:42:59be very grateful to my honourable friend for bringing forward this

0:42:59 > 0:43:05bill again and giving the Government an opportunity to overturn their

0:43:05 > 0:43:08previous opposition to the measures in this bill which he has just

0:43:08 > 0:43:12outlined, including through the passage of the Housing and planning

0:43:12 > 0:43:18act? And will he join me in pressing the Government to implement the

0:43:18 > 0:43:23measures in this bill very quickly? Because their resistance to these

0:43:23 > 0:43:26measures previously has meant there has been a delay for tenants in

0:43:26 > 0:43:32getting the protection they very much need.My honourable friend is

0:43:32 > 0:43:35right. I hope the Minister will acknowledge the opportunity that

0:43:35 > 0:43:39this gives the Government. I would rather this was a Government bill

0:43:39 > 0:43:45that also went further to make the private rented market more fair. My

0:43:45 > 0:43:49honourable friend is right: There is too long history of legislation

0:43:49 > 0:43:53being passed with implementation liking. So she makes a really

0:43:53 > 0:43:59important point for the Minister later on. I mentioned this was a

0:43:59 > 0:44:05welcome and significant shift. It shows Labour's winning the arguments

0:44:05 > 0:44:08and forcing Government to change policy. It shows the ministers are

0:44:08 > 0:44:15coming to terms with the hard reality of our first minority-owned

0:44:15 > 0:44:19Government in 38 years. With no domestic policy programme, because

0:44:19 > 0:44:26it isn't covered by their deal with the DUP. If the Government wants to

0:44:26 > 0:44:31act... So, if the Government wants to act beyond Brexit, only policies

0:44:31 > 0:44:35which can command some support from beyond its own ranks will stick. So,

0:44:35 > 0:44:42this bill is important as a first step is to deal with failures in a

0:44:42 > 0:44:45market the Prime Minister herself describes as broken. But more is

0:44:45 > 0:44:53needed. And alongside the Government's backing for this bill,

0:44:53 > 0:44:57either for urge it to rethink its refusal to help people who rent in

0:44:57 > 0:45:03other ways. I urge it to consider backing the Labour plans for longer

0:45:03 > 0:45:07tendencies, controls on rent, more freedom for councils to license

0:45:07 > 0:45:13private landlords.

0:45:13 > 0:45:16And finally, my honourable friend, when she introduced the bill, said

0:45:16 > 0:45:21that everyone should have a right to a safe, warm, comfortable home. She

0:45:21 > 0:45:31is so right and we will give this bill its strongest possible support.

0:45:31 > 0:45:38Anne-Marie Trevelyan.It is a pleasure to follow the Member for

0:45:38 > 0:45:40Wentworth and congratulations, the honourable member for Westminster

0:45:40 > 0:45:44North, who has worked so closely to Government to bring this build a

0:45:44 > 0:45:48strong cross-party support position so that we can all really stand up

0:45:48 > 0:45:54for what it refers to. I refer the House to my entry in the register

0:45:54 > 0:45:59members' interests as a private landlord. As a landlord myself, this

0:45:59 > 0:46:04bill has my wholehearted support because it changes the status quo by

0:46:04 > 0:46:08empowering tenants to take action with legal backbone if their

0:46:08 > 0:46:13landlord is failing them and their family. This bill empowers those

0:46:13 > 0:46:17living in both social housing and private rented accommodation to take

0:46:17 > 0:46:21charge of taking on their landlord to enforce housing standards for

0:46:21 > 0:46:25their home, which have fallen below standard, and which make their home

0:46:25 > 0:46:29unfit to live in, due to serious and immediate risks to those residents'

0:46:29 > 0:46:34health and safety. This bill is an excellent example of something which

0:46:34 > 0:46:39I believe we should try to use more often than we do. That is the

0:46:39 > 0:46:43velocity of nudge politics. I am genuinely hopeful that because this

0:46:43 > 0:46:49bill means that a tenant can compel a landlord to fix those housing

0:46:49 > 0:46:53failures, the vast majority of those landlords will start to discover the

0:46:53 > 0:46:58satisfaction of proactive property maintenance. Mr Speaker, everyone

0:46:58 > 0:47:01deserves a decent and safe home to live in. Every child should be able

0:47:01 > 0:47:07to grow up in a home free from damp, and the reality is that it can be

0:47:07 > 0:47:11both old and new properties which fail to be properly ventilated,

0:47:11 > 0:47:15thereby leaving children in conditions which aggravate or create

0:47:15 > 0:47:18skin and breathing health difficulties. My constituency

0:47:18 > 0:47:22Berwick-upon-Tweed extends over a vast area of North Northumberland,

0:47:22 > 0:47:26the most beautiful rural constituencies, but consists of over

0:47:26 > 0:47:32150 villages, many of which are told, stone built cottages as the

0:47:32 > 0:47:34backbone of the housing stock. These bring their own challenges to meet

0:47:34 > 0:47:39modern heating standards but many of my local members have shown

0:47:39 > 0:47:41creativity and invested in sustainable and renewable heating

0:47:41 > 0:47:44methods which have given their tenants are greatly improved day to

0:47:44 > 0:47:48day living experience. Many landlords of these old stone

0:47:48 > 0:47:51properties have invested in their properties, as my honourable friend

0:47:51 > 0:47:56the Member for rugby mentioned earlier, a good landlord knows and

0:47:56 > 0:47:59act upon their responsibilities to provide and maintain a good

0:47:59 > 0:48:04standard, alongside their right to collect rents. There, of course,

0:48:04 > 0:48:07sadly, some private landlords who have not been as speedy to make

0:48:07 > 0:48:10those long-term improvements in these old properties, leaving

0:48:10 > 0:48:14tenants with rotten window frames which ensure no amount of eating can

0:48:14 > 0:48:20keep their home warm, or with poor and graded drainage conditions which

0:48:20 > 0:48:23mean that health risks which are entirely avoidable are still in the

0:48:23 > 0:48:30mix. One of the frustrations I have in this are for my constituents with

0:48:30 > 0:48:33recently built, indeed, or refurbished social housing, mostly

0:48:33 > 0:48:42in Berwick and in Alec which still fails to do so. -- Alnwick. I have a

0:48:42 > 0:48:45family living in Berwick with a daughter with respiratory problems

0:48:45 > 0:48:49who cannot live with her mother and sisters in this council property

0:48:49 > 0:48:53because ventilation improvements, so called, simply sealed up the

0:48:53 > 0:48:56property and created such dampness and health problems that the child

0:48:56 > 0:49:01cannot spend more than an hour in the House before suffering an ounce

0:49:01 > 0:49:04-- an asthma attack. I have been in the House several times and each

0:49:04 > 0:49:08time I can feel the construction of my breathing airways because of a

0:49:08 > 0:49:10damp air. These so-called improvements have completely failed

0:49:10 > 0:49:15to do what they were asked and we are continuing to battle on with

0:49:15 > 0:49:20them, and the housing association, who want to fix this, but this is an

0:49:20 > 0:49:22example of a poorly installed investment which needs sorting out,

0:49:22 > 0:49:25where the builders who did the work failed to meet the requirements they

0:49:25 > 0:49:30were given. This is a huge frustration to all of those in the

0:49:30 > 0:49:34system but we have to find a way to fix it. This bill will empower my

0:49:34 > 0:49:38Berwick family and an amazing mother who is fighting for her daughter's

0:49:38 > 0:49:42health, and for the right of the daughter to be able to live with her

0:49:42 > 0:49:46mum if they can't find a different house to move them to, to enforce

0:49:46 > 0:49:48those improvements because my local authority cannot enforce against

0:49:48 > 0:49:54themselves. Thousands of tenants in my constituency are being given

0:49:54 > 0:50:03through this bill a new empowerment to get the renovations they deserve.

0:50:03 > 0:50:08A good and reliable water supply, effective drainage and sanitary

0:50:08 > 0:50:13systems, facilities for cooking and waste disposal. They mitigate and

0:50:13 > 0:50:18eliminate file risks -- fire risks, for those colleagues who have

0:50:18 > 0:50:21high-rise blocks, which is absolutely key part of this bill. We

0:50:21 > 0:50:24have the chance to support our constituents, newly empowered to get

0:50:24 > 0:50:34homes delivered that we can all be proud of.I am grateful, Madame

0:50:34 > 0:50:38Debbie disfigured. Can I draw attention to my register a members'

0:50:38 > 0:50:43interests, and then can I welcome the honourable lady to her place on

0:50:43 > 0:50:47the front bench, a promotion which she deserve. -- Madam Deputy

0:50:47 > 0:50:58Speaker. I fully support this bill and I want to support my honourable

0:50:58 > 0:51:01friend from Westminster for her absolute persistence in trying to

0:51:01 > 0:51:07see these changes put into place. It is a testament to her dedication and

0:51:07 > 0:51:13bid support of so many people and organisations across the Government

0:51:13 > 0:51:17is, I understand, content to allow this bill to proceed this afternoon.

0:51:17 > 0:51:21I want to start by addressing a development in the regulation of

0:51:21 > 0:51:28standards in the private sector that affects my honourable members have

0:51:28 > 0:51:37noticed that my borough of Newham has been largely successful in its

0:51:37 > 0:51:39application for an application to renew its licensing scheme for

0:51:39 > 0:51:44private sector landlords and I am very wriggled to the previous

0:51:44 > 0:51:47minister who took the time to properly listen to our case and

0:51:47 > 0:51:53acted positively upon it. He was in his seat earlier on this morning and

0:51:53 > 0:51:57I had hoped he might stay so that I could thank him formally and

0:51:57 > 0:52:05publicly from these benches but there is one area in my constituency

0:52:05 > 0:52:11that the permission has excluded and that is the ETA 20 postcode and that

0:52:11 > 0:52:15includes much of Stratford. I think I understand why the previous

0:52:15 > 0:52:21minister did that but I also believe it to be a mistake, because poor

0:52:21 > 0:52:26quality housing and abuses by private sector landlords exist in

0:52:26 > 0:52:31each 20, just as they do in every part of my constituency and of our

0:52:31 > 0:52:35country, and the exclusion of each 20 will make it far easier for these

0:52:35 > 0:52:41abuses to continue and I'm worried that it could make E20 more of a

0:52:41 > 0:52:44draw for rogue landlords if it is the only place they can take

0:52:44 > 0:52:51advantage of new's high housing demand whilst avoiding the enhanced

0:52:51 > 0:52:55enforcement of the council. I'm going to get in touch with the

0:52:55 > 0:52:58Minister at a later date to offer a cup of tea and a bun, should you

0:52:58 > 0:53:03like it or even something stronger after dry January is finished so we

0:53:03 > 0:53:07can talk this through. While I am talking to the benches opposite, may

0:53:07 > 0:53:12I say to the honourable lady from Telford, I would really like to

0:53:12 > 0:53:18invite her to come to West Ham, have a look at one of our enforcement

0:53:18 > 0:53:22visits, see what a difference it makes and then maybe I can persuade

0:53:22 > 0:53:26her, too, that this is a journey she might like to take with her front

0:53:26 > 0:53:31bench and start to accept that this is possibly the way forward and we

0:53:31 > 0:53:35have got decent cafes in West Ham and I am happy to take her for a

0:53:35 > 0:53:39latter day or a cappuccino or whatever she might desire in order

0:53:39 > 0:53:44to win her support.I thank the honourable lady for giving way and I

0:53:44 > 0:53:47think it is excellent that we've got this cross-party debate today and

0:53:47 > 0:53:52that we are all working together and I thank her for her invitation.

0:53:52 > 0:53:55Excellent, so my office will be in touch with hers in order to see if

0:53:55 > 0:54:00we can get a date. Enabling local authorities to take tough action

0:54:00 > 0:54:04against rogue landlords is really important and it can be a real help

0:54:04 > 0:54:10in driving up standards. This bill would tackle the problem at the

0:54:10 > 0:54:13route by clarifying, updating and strengthening the right of tenants

0:54:13 > 0:54:18to live in a rental property that is fit to be called a home. As we have

0:54:18 > 0:54:23heard today, a minority of landlords make huge profits from their

0:54:23 > 0:54:27renters, who can live in appalling conditions and before Christmas, in

0:54:27 > 0:54:33this place, I mentioned a case where a man had been found living in one

0:54:33 > 0:54:39metre by two metres space under some stairs, in a property with 11 other

0:54:39 > 0:54:43people and with electrical and fire hazards to boot. That same in new

0:54:43 > 0:54:49Hampden enforcement team -- Newham enforcement team found, on that very

0:54:49 > 0:54:54same day, just to be clear, three people who were paying £200 a month

0:54:54 > 0:55:01for space in an outside shed. As we heard earlier, for other separate

0:55:01 > 0:55:06families have been crammed into the main house and I believe it will

0:55:06 > 0:55:10begin to solve the problem of abuse to tenants if all landlords, from

0:55:10 > 0:55:16the beginning of a tenancy, had a clear duty to provide basic liveable

0:55:16 > 0:55:20conditions for tenants and if this could be enforced not just by our

0:55:20 > 0:55:25councils but by the courts. Every single one of our constituents

0:55:25 > 0:55:34deserves a...Very briefly, would she also accept some praise for the

0:55:34 > 0:55:39local authority leading the way, such as Haringey coming on board

0:55:39 > 0:55:45with exciting new schemes to crack down on very poor at landlord

0:55:45 > 0:55:48practices.New council is absolutely right to take the action they did

0:55:48 > 0:55:52and the Government is absolutely right to supported further, because

0:55:52 > 0:55:58only by schemes like this, paid for by the landlord, making sure that

0:55:58 > 0:56:02there is the money there for enforcement activity to take place

0:56:02 > 0:56:06can we ensure that our tenants have homes that are fit for them, because

0:56:06 > 0:56:10every single one of our constituents deserves to have a workable and

0:56:10 > 0:56:15realistic legal address against landlords whose properties are

0:56:15 > 0:56:19dangerous, cold or damp. Giving them that help will ensure that the

0:56:19 > 0:56:22horrifying conditions we have heard about today will not be allowed to

0:56:22 > 0:56:26continue. I am delighted to support this bill. It is about time it makes

0:56:26 > 0:56:32progress and I hope to see that this afternoon.Thank you, Madam Deputy

0:56:32 > 0:56:36Speaker. It is always a pleasure to follow the right honourable lady,

0:56:36 > 0:56:41the Member for West Ham, and I particularly want to pay tribute to

0:56:41 > 0:56:46the honourable lady, the Member for Westminster North, who, I have no

0:56:46 > 0:56:49doubt, is a doughty campaigner on behalf of the constituents and who I

0:56:49 > 0:56:53have regularly heard raise housing matters in this chamber. I would

0:56:53 > 0:56:58also like to congratulate my colleague on the front bench for her

0:56:58 > 0:57:02promotion to this role. She is a very good friend of mine, a

0:57:02 > 0:57:06colleague who I respect enormously and who I know will be very

0:57:06 > 0:57:10effective in this new role that she has just started out in. Rather like

0:57:10 > 0:57:14in the constituencies of all my honourable friends and colleagues

0:57:14 > 0:57:18opposite, housing is a key issue in Corby and East Northamptonshire,

0:57:18 > 0:57:22tabby M, and we are right at the forefront of the housing growth

0:57:22 > 0:57:27agenda, entirely supportive of the government's aims and we keep

0:57:27 > 0:57:33arguing the case about the need for infrastructure but it does give a

0:57:33 > 0:57:37misleading picture about the situation locally. We're seeing

0:57:37 > 0:57:42thousands of new homes being built but, rather like an Telford, Corby

0:57:42 > 0:57:46is a new town and that means a lot of our housing stock, both of

0:57:46 > 0:57:50housing sector, with housing associations and in local authority

0:57:50 > 0:57:53control, is of a similar age and that obviously brings quite

0:57:53 > 0:57:58considerable challenges with it. And in the other part of my

0:57:58 > 0:58:03constituency, the East Hampton sure part, we do have, despite the

0:58:03 > 0:58:07perception, pockets of deprivation, so there are housing challenges in

0:58:07 > 0:58:10those areas, too, despite on the face of it some of those areas

0:58:10 > 0:58:16looking to be very affluent indeed. I'm pleased that in my constituency

0:58:16 > 0:58:20there is a particular effort going on at the moment to try and deliver

0:58:20 > 0:58:24improvements to the housing stock and I recently had a very productive

0:58:24 > 0:58:27meeting with Corby Borough council and the housing staff there, when we

0:58:27 > 0:58:32went through the forward a plan of work that has just been through full

0:58:32 > 0:58:36council, to deliver a programme of works to help upgrade quite a chunk

0:58:36 > 0:58:41of our housing stock within the town. Those are very welcome steps.

0:58:41 > 0:58:45But I do accept that performance can be patchy and that some local

0:58:45 > 0:58:49authorities - and in some areas, the situation is others... Ira member

0:58:49 > 0:58:53when I was a councillor in Wellingborough back in the day, and

0:58:53 > 0:58:56we were always very careful to manage our resources. There has been

0:58:56 > 0:59:00a lot said in the debate today about local authority resources. We always

0:59:00 > 0:59:05made sure we had a conference of capital programme in place, housing

0:59:05 > 0:59:09was very regularly right at the four of that, and we were also very

0:59:09 > 0:59:12prudent in our reserves to make sure we had sufficient reserves in place

0:59:12 > 0:59:16that were there issues that arose that needed addressing, that we were

0:59:16 > 0:59:22in a position to take the action when it was required to. As I say,

0:59:22 > 0:59:27there are challenges but I am very pleased that this bill continues to

0:59:27 > 0:59:31build upon the steps that have already been taken. I am also

0:59:31 > 0:59:34pleased that it commands cross-party support because I think on these

0:59:34 > 0:59:39issues, they are fundamental. It doesn't matter how our constituents

0:59:39 > 0:59:43vote, Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, Ukip, all of us and all of

0:59:43 > 0:59:46our constituents have concerns about the issue of housing. I don't think

0:59:46 > 0:59:51any member in this House could deny that that is the case. So to my

0:59:51 > 0:59:55mind, this bill strikes the right balance because it adds an extra

0:59:55 > 0:59:58tool in the box on trying to tackle some of the challenges that we have

0:59:58 > 1:00:03seen before us, and all of us see constituents on a week to week basis

1:00:03 > 1:00:06in our care surgeries, raising issues about the quality of the

1:00:06 > 1:00:12housing stock that they live in, but we must not lose sight of the fact

1:00:12 > 1:00:16that there are also many excellent private rented landlords who do

1:00:16 > 1:00:20provide a real service and provide very good quality provision that is

1:00:20 > 1:00:28well managed and that meets the needs of people in our communities.

1:00:28 > 1:00:32I'm pleased that the provisions of this bill will not adversely affect

1:00:32 > 1:00:35them in terms of costs, because I think it is important that we don't

1:00:35 > 1:00:40lead them to feel vilified by the steps we are taking. I actually see

1:00:40 > 1:00:43this bill is an opportunity to congratulate landlords who do it

1:00:43 > 1:00:48right, could provide an excellent service, who are mindful of the

1:00:48 > 1:00:51needs of their tenants, but at the same time, it offers an opportunity

1:00:51 > 1:00:56to level up and make sure that those who are not providing the sort of

1:00:56 > 1:00:59service we would expect and the quality of stock that we would

1:00:59 > 1:01:02expect to put that right and take the steps necessary, and to have

1:01:02 > 1:01:07added an extra tool in the battle of trying to achieve that. I also have

1:01:07 > 1:01:13huge respect for the Shadow Minister. But I'm slightly

1:01:13 > 1:01:16disappointed by the tone of his remarks, because there have been a

1:01:16 > 1:01:19lot of steps taken in the last few years under this Government that

1:01:19 > 1:01:25have helped to progress the housing agenda and particularly to get to

1:01:25 > 1:01:29grips with some of these issues that we have heard today. Let me allude

1:01:29 > 1:01:34to some of those. The extra 12 million for local authorities to

1:01:34 > 1:01:39identify and prosecute rogue landlords, which has led to 70,000

1:01:39 > 1:01:43homes inspected, 5000 landlords facing action or prosecution. We've

1:01:43 > 1:01:46seen steps to address retaliatory action when legitimate complaints

1:01:46 > 1:01:49have been made. Surely that is something we can all welcome and

1:01:49 > 1:01:53recognise as a step forward. You are no longer allowed to serve

1:01:53 > 1:02:01open-ended eviction notices, a step we can all agree on welcome. Further

1:02:01 > 1:02:04legislation in 2015 to improve safety, again, something we should

1:02:04 > 1:02:08all be able to welcome. And through the Housing and planning act, we

1:02:08 > 1:02:12have allowed the authorities to impose civil penalties of up to

1:02:12 > 1:02:1530,000 as an alternative to prosecution, again, a step forward.

1:02:15 > 1:02:18As the chairman of the select committee noted, as of April,

1:02:18 > 1:02:24banning orders are no longer... Sorry, we have banning orders coming

1:02:24 > 1:02:29into force. Wheels have a database of rogue landlords being introduced.

1:02:29 > 1:02:32Concrete steps that I would like to think that every member of this Cows

1:02:32 > 1:02:37would welcome. But we mustn't be complacent, and that is why this

1:02:37 > 1:02:39bill is important, because it continues that journey we have

1:02:39 > 1:02:45already embarked on. What we and all of our constituents would like to

1:02:45 > 1:02:48see is improved and better cross-party working on these big

1:02:48 > 1:02:51fundamental challenges that affect each and every one of us. Because of

1:02:51 > 1:02:58this bill and the spirit in which it is being conducted, I'm pleased that

1:02:58 > 1:03:02we are in the position that we find ourselves today. I also think that

1:03:02 > 1:03:06the points that have been raised around the importance of tenants

1:03:06 > 1:03:15having the confidence and support to enact the provisions of this bill is

1:03:15 > 1:03:18very important. I would like to think that the Minister may have a

1:03:18 > 1:03:22few words to say about that when she sums up. I would be particularly

1:03:22 > 1:03:31interested as well to hear about the engagement we have had with Shelter

1:03:31 > 1:03:34and other organisations to make best use of these provisions, should they

1:03:34 > 1:03:38come into force. I am keen to do everything I can to help support

1:03:38 > 1:03:45bringing this bill into law. Just a couple of finer points, wider but

1:03:45 > 1:03:47related, I would argue, nonetheless. The first one is the issue of best

1:03:47 > 1:03:52practice. All of us in our constituencies see examples of best

1:03:52 > 1:03:56practice. One of the things I thought was interesting about the

1:03:56 > 1:03:59Shadow Minister's speech was that he alluded to some of the best practice

1:03:59 > 1:04:05we have seen in London. How can we best share that? There is no point

1:04:05 > 1:04:09having isolated best practice. If we have local authorities that are

1:04:09 > 1:04:13doing it well, and again, I don't care what political persuasion any

1:04:13 > 1:04:20given council is. I have a Labour council in my constituency and we

1:04:20 > 1:04:23have a productive and sensible working relationship, which my

1:04:23 > 1:04:26constituents expect, but it also helps to get things done. I want us

1:04:26 > 1:04:32to better use Best practice that is identified around the country to

1:04:32 > 1:04:37help try and improve outcomes across the country. I think that where that

1:04:37 > 1:04:43can be achieved, we should go after it. Across all aspects of policy. I

1:04:43 > 1:04:46would like to think that ministers and Government can help in the

1:04:46 > 1:04:52dissemination of that information. I will give way.I want to extend an

1:04:52 > 1:05:02invitation to the honourable gentleman for back-up of coffee,

1:05:02 > 1:05:10cake -- for a cup of coffee.It sounds like we will have quite the

1:05:10 > 1:05:15outing, because the Minister is obviously... Is the honourable

1:05:15 > 1:05:19member for Telford is lined up to take part. I look forward to having

1:05:19 > 1:05:23a date in the diary for that to happen. I will definitely hold her

1:05:23 > 1:05:28to the cake part of that. On best practice, important that we roll

1:05:28 > 1:05:36that out where we can. A final point that I want to make is that,

1:05:36 > 1:05:40particularly in new towns, we have this housing stock that is of a

1:05:40 > 1:05:45similar age. And most of the housing stock that is in the private rented

1:05:45 > 1:05:48sector and the public sector is that similar age and has particular

1:05:48 > 1:05:55challenges. I want us to what cross-party on this, but we have to

1:05:55 > 1:05:59develop a strategy that means will be able to have a fundamental

1:05:59 > 1:06:03replenishment of that stock in due course because truth is that that is

1:06:03 > 1:06:07all likely to come to a head at the same time. That is one for another

1:06:07 > 1:06:20day.From behind the facades of Kensington and in neighbouring

1:06:20 > 1:06:26Chelsea come tales of the most unimaginable squalor. Some members

1:06:26 > 1:06:30may know that my move interactive local politics 12 years ago was

1:06:30 > 1:06:34propelled by a five-year legal battle with my housing association

1:06:34 > 1:06:39after a ceiling collapsed after many complaints, narrowly missing my

1:06:39 > 1:06:45young daughter's head by inches and it was a plaster ceiling. How do we

1:06:45 > 1:06:50have around seven excess winter deaths a year in the richest borough

1:06:50 > 1:06:56when cold is a category one has a? My office is currently asking

1:06:56 > 1:06:59constituents who report dampened mould about their health. So far,

1:06:59 > 1:07:04and this will be no surprise to many of us, every single one has reported

1:07:04 > 1:07:07asthma and other breathing problems. Two constituents I visited recently

1:07:07 > 1:07:18had to walk around with nebulisers dispensing oxygen to show us black

1:07:18 > 1:07:24mould. Their lives were in danger. Kensington and Chelsea Council is

1:07:24 > 1:07:28proud of their enforcement record, but their work and housing is

1:07:28 > 1:07:32constrained by funding, staffing and legal constrictions, as we know.

1:07:32 > 1:07:36Since 2015, just the 11 successful prosecutions have been reported for

1:07:36 > 1:07:41disrepair, poor management and lack of fire precautions. Credit where it

1:07:41 > 1:07:45is due, but this is the tip of an iceberg. Some of these prosecutions

1:07:45 > 1:07:52have been widely reported for improving the external appearance,

1:07:52 > 1:07:55with action against landlords not maintaining their facades, improving

1:07:55 > 1:08:07visual matters rather than health matters. We have difficulty in

1:08:07 > 1:08:11pursuing offshore landlords because we don't even know who they are, and

1:08:11 > 1:08:15they are the bane of the property market. The current framework is

1:08:15 > 1:08:19unwieldy, bureaucratic and time-consuming, with no power of a

1:08:19 > 1:08:22local authority landlords. My honourable friend has it the

1:08:22 > 1:08:25proverbial nail on the head with this bill, which is a far better

1:08:25 > 1:08:29standard of workmanship and much I'd seen. In Kensington and Chelsea, the

1:08:29 > 1:08:34council is better at keeping up appearances, sanitising poverty and

1:08:34 > 1:08:42sanitising squalor than it is with addressing it. As we know, the prime

1:08:42 > 1:08:47motivation behind the cladding at Grenfell Tower was to improve visual

1:08:47 > 1:08:49appearance for the conservation areas nearby. This is detailed in

1:08:49 > 1:08:55the planning application and mentioned several times. We know

1:08:55 > 1:09:00what happens when bad landlords, including local authorities, get

1:09:00 > 1:09:04away with ignoring complaints. Grenfell is a stark reminder of what

1:09:04 > 1:09:08the current legal provisions can lead to, with complaints sidelined,

1:09:08 > 1:09:13ignored, ridiculed and in the end is the subject of cease and desist

1:09:13 > 1:09:19letters. Time is up for bad landlords. Our homes are making our

1:09:19 > 1:09:22residents ill, they are responsible for any deaths, and sometimes even

1:09:22 > 1:09:27killed. My daughter survived her very frightening experience, but

1:09:27 > 1:09:33many do not. Some of my neighbours' daughters did not survive. As a

1:09:33 > 1:09:37legacy to the 71 victims and countless survivors and frightened

1:09:37 > 1:09:41neighbours of the Grenfell Tower fire, and for all those living in

1:09:41 > 1:09:49unhealthy homes, I support this bill unreservedly.Thank you for calling

1:09:49 > 1:09:53me in this debate, and it is a pleasure to follow the honourable

1:09:53 > 1:09:57lady. I am also delighted to support this bill, and I commend the

1:09:57 > 1:09:59honourable member for Westminster North are bringing forward this

1:09:59 > 1:10:07legislation. I worked on the Homelessness Reduction Act with her.

1:10:07 > 1:10:11I would like the start by paying tribute to Shelter. I think they

1:10:11 > 1:10:13have done a fantastic job campaigning on many of the issues

1:10:13 > 1:10:17we're talking about today, and I think this bill passing second

1:10:17 > 1:10:20reading would be testament to all of their hard work in this area. We

1:10:20 > 1:10:25have seen action to help people get into properties, helped by for those

1:10:25 > 1:10:30looking to own, and the budget also included to rent. The extension of

1:10:30 > 1:10:34this must now be making sure that people are living in properties that

1:10:34 > 1:10:41are fit for purpose. The 2015-16 English Housing survey found that

1:10:41 > 1:10:47nearly 795,000 homes in the private rented sector have a category one

1:10:47 > 1:10:51hazard, and nearly 245,000 in the social rented sector. For those

1:10:51 > 1:10:56unaware of what that actually means, a category one hasn't in the housing

1:10:56 > 1:11:01health and safety rating system is one which is defined as a serious

1:11:01 > 1:11:06and immediate risk to a person's health and safety. The phrase health

1:11:06 > 1:11:10and safety might cause a few eyes to roll, but we are talking about

1:11:10 > 1:11:17really serious things - asbestos, mould and damp, carbon monoxide and

1:11:17 > 1:11:22the products of fuel combustion. What if I said that this represents

1:11:22 > 1:11:276% of properties in the social rented sector? How about if I said

1:11:27 > 1:11:31it represented 17% of properties in the private rented sector? Just

1:11:31 > 1:11:36think about that for a moment. There is nearly a one in five chance that

1:11:36 > 1:11:41a property is one of our constituents goes out and rent has a

1:11:41 > 1:11:46hazard considered a serious and immediate risk. This has to change.

1:11:46 > 1:11:50The key function of this bill is providing a meaningful route for

1:11:50 > 1:11:54those living in properties which are not fit for purpose to get necessary

1:11:54 > 1:12:00repairs done. We're not seeking to be disparaging about landlords. The

1:12:00 > 1:12:05vast overwhelming majority always try to do the right thing by their

1:12:05 > 1:12:09tenants and take swift action to resolve any faults or problems with

1:12:09 > 1:12:16their properties. If anything, this majority, tired and fed up of having

1:12:16 > 1:12:19their reputations trashed untarnished by others in this sector

1:12:19 > 1:12:23who simply, excuse my language, just don't give a dam, they do want this

1:12:23 > 1:12:27bill to pass. At the moment, tenants are dependent on the local authority

1:12:27 > 1:12:31for action to be taken regarding property standards. This can be

1:12:31 > 1:12:35difficult enough when you are renting accommodation from a private

1:12:35 > 1:12:39landlord, but what about when your landlord is in fact your own local

1:12:39 > 1:12:44authority? I think it is really important to have a route open to

1:12:44 > 1:12:48tenants which ensures that local authorities don't have conflicting

1:12:48 > 1:12:55interests. This bill gives tenants the right to take their landlord to

1:12:55 > 1:12:59court when their property is not fit for purpose. They will be able to

1:12:59 > 1:13:03directly apply for an injunction compelling their landlord to carry

1:13:03 > 1:13:07out necessary repairs, or they will be able to apply for compensation

1:13:07 > 1:13:11from their landlord for their failure to maintain the property. In

1:13:11 > 1:13:14the worst cases, tenants will be able to provide their own evidence

1:13:14 > 1:13:18to the judge rather than, as we do at the moment, having to rely on an

1:13:18 > 1:13:23environmental health officer or independent surveyor's report. For

1:13:23 > 1:13:26local authorities, this also means that they can focus their resources

1:13:26 > 1:13:32on the very worst landlords. There is always some reluctance from Psalm

1:13:32 > 1:13:38about legislating in this area. A belief that this is a matter best

1:13:38 > 1:13:42left resolve between individual landlords and tenants, but let us be

1:13:42 > 1:13:46clear, this isn't about the Government telling landlords what to

1:13:46 > 1:13:50do, it is about levelling the playing field. If we're being

1:13:50 > 1:13:55honest, nor does it introduce anything new. There are no new

1:13:55 > 1:14:00property standards defined by this bill, no new additional regulation.

1:14:00 > 1:14:04We are simply making sure that additional standards, existing

1:14:04 > 1:14:10standards, are being enforced. The final point I want to raise regards

1:14:10 > 1:14:18the tragedy at Grenfell Tower, which the honourable lady for Kensington

1:14:18 > 1:14:20rightly referenced. There is an enquiry into what happened, and I

1:14:20 > 1:14:25don't want to speculate about what it will find, or who, indeed, is to

1:14:25 > 1:14:30blame. However, we have all heard the stories, harrowing stories, in

1:14:30 > 1:14:35fact, of the unsafe conditions. Fire doors which didn't work, not enough

1:14:35 > 1:14:40emergency lighting in stairwells, inadequate smoke ventilation. A

1:14:40 > 1:14:44number of these concerns were previously raised by tenants who

1:14:44 > 1:14:48feel, or felt, that they were being ignored. We must never have a

1:14:48 > 1:14:53situation again where genuine issues, in particular issues of

1:14:53 > 1:14:57safety, are not being tackled by landlords. When tenants feel unsafe,

1:14:57 > 1:15:04then landlords have to take action. They must listen, no ifs know buts.

1:15:04 > 1:15:09This bill empowers tenants so that when they tell a landlord that the

1:15:09 > 1:15:13condition of their property isn't good enough, then landlords must

1:15:13 > 1:15:18take notice. They must resolve it. This isn't some top-down diktats

1:15:18 > 1:15:22will stop it is bottom up accountability. That is why I'm

1:15:22 > 1:15:25pleased to be able to support the honourable member for Westminster

1:15:25 > 1:15:29North's bill at second reading. It is a welcome and necessary step in

1:15:29 > 1:15:33ensuring that every tenant is given that basic right of living in a home

1:15:33 > 1:15:42fit for purpose. Our constituents deserve nothing less.

1:15:42 > 1:15:45OffThis is such an important issue and, again, I would like to

1:15:45 > 1:15:48congratulate my honourable friend the Member for Westminster North for

1:15:48 > 1:15:54securing this debate and all of her tireless work on this issue. I wish

1:15:54 > 1:15:57I could say that all homes in my constituency of Canterbury are

1:15:57 > 1:16:05currently fit for human inhabitation but I can't. Sometimes it is the

1:16:05 > 1:16:09social housing provided for under behalf of our local authority which

1:16:09 > 1:16:11has the highest proliferation of category one hazards and other

1:16:11 > 1:16:17factors put at risk people health and safety. One example in

1:16:17 > 1:16:22Canterbury is a lovely family who have to me who have three children.

1:16:22 > 1:16:25They found themselves homeless in November after their private

1:16:25 > 1:16:30landlords sold their property. Since then the family have been moved from

1:16:30 > 1:16:35pillar to post from one unhealthy, unsuitable accommodation to the

1:16:35 > 1:16:42next. They have been moved five times in two months. How, in

1:16:42 > 1:16:44supposedly affluent Canterbury, in the supposedly affluent south-east,

1:16:44 > 1:16:50can there be so many places unfit for human habitation? One place

1:16:50 > 1:16:55prided by the council to this family was riddled with bed bugs crawling

1:16:55 > 1:17:01everywhere and they had a seriously. All of their mattresses and other

1:17:01 > 1:17:03belongings are now ruined and they are yet to be compensated. This

1:17:03 > 1:17:07family were moved to a house which had been freshly painted to disguise

1:17:07 > 1:17:12a serious mould problem. Now their children are all exposed to mould

1:17:12 > 1:17:15and fun guy growing inside their home come around their beds, around

1:17:15 > 1:17:21their clothes and around their toys. We all know damp and mould can

1:17:21 > 1:17:26worsen conditions like asthma, eczema and other conditions.

1:17:26 > 1:17:29Articles published in the British Medical Journal show that adults

1:17:29 > 1:17:33living in mouldy homes were more likely to have symptoms such as

1:17:33 > 1:17:37fainting, headaches, fevers and raise anxiety. I wanted to tell you

1:17:37 > 1:17:41about that family this morning as I'm disgusted with the way they have

1:17:41 > 1:17:44been treated and how is. I have put a video of this family's

1:17:44 > 1:17:48accommodation on social media. Please go and see it and I promise

1:17:48 > 1:17:51you will be horrified. Any council which places people in accommodation

1:17:51 > 1:17:56such as this should be ashamed.Will be honourable lady give way? I thank

1:17:56 > 1:17:59her for giving way and I'm saddened to hear about the way your

1:17:59 > 1:18:04constituents have been treated by the council in Kent, by your own

1:18:04 > 1:18:06local authority. Would she agree with me that not all local

1:18:06 > 1:18:11authorities are the same? In my own Labour led Norwich City Council we

1:18:11 > 1:18:16have 15,000 properties and not one of them has a category one hazards

1:18:16 > 1:18:21that you are in, and yet in the private sector, 14,000 homes, nearly

1:18:21 > 1:18:253000 of them have a category one hazard and they charge two to three

1:18:25 > 1:18:31times as much. Would she acknowledge that?Absolutely did I think that is

1:18:31 > 1:18:34disgraceful and thank you for raising that point. Some other

1:18:34 > 1:18:37providers in Kent are failing the public but this is bigger than Kent

1:18:37 > 1:18:42and this is a national shame. As we heard from the honourable member for

1:18:42 > 1:18:45Taunton Deane, local authorities cannot enforce the housing, health

1:18:45 > 1:18:53unsafe to rating system against themselves. Social tenants can often

1:18:53 > 1:18:58do very little about poor and unhealthy accommodation. This bill

1:18:58 > 1:19:01is so important as it would stop cases like the one I've told you

1:19:01 > 1:19:06about today and would compel local authorities to carry out repairs. I

1:19:06 > 1:19:10support this bill wholeheartedly. All social tenants and renters

1:19:10 > 1:19:13deserve accommodation which is safe. The old saying there is no place

1:19:13 > 1:19:19like home - well, for many families in Britain, that is true for all the

1:19:19 > 1:19:21wrong reasons. Let's change that today and make sure all homes fit

1:19:21 > 1:19:30for human habitation.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and may I,

1:19:30 > 1:19:33Tambay M, thank the Member for Westminster North for bringing this

1:19:33 > 1:19:37very important debate, and I know how much she has worked on this

1:19:37 > 1:19:42issue. I would like to welcome the Minister, a former whip of mine, to

1:19:42 > 1:19:46her seat and give reference to the member of interests as a private

1:19:46 > 1:19:51landlord myself. Madam Deputy Speaker, everyone, as we've heard

1:19:51 > 1:19:55today, is entitled to a clean, safe and comfortable home. One would have

1:19:55 > 1:20:00thought that was given but that we are discussing this today

1:20:00 > 1:20:05illustrates that it quite truly is not. Home really should be whether

1:20:05 > 1:20:08hearties but there have been long-standing concerns regarding

1:20:08 > 1:20:13property standards in both social and the private rented sector. I was

1:20:13 > 1:20:17made particularly aware of this, not just as my work as a local MP,

1:20:17 > 1:20:22because of my involvement on homelessness reduction bill, so well

1:20:22 > 1:20:29brought through this House by the honourable member for Barrow, Harrow

1:20:29 > 1:20:34West. But I supported so many of those adjournment debates, Madam

1:20:34 > 1:20:37Deputy Speaker. You probably also sat through them with the previous

1:20:37 > 1:20:41housing minister, the honourable member for Croydon, and I heard so

1:20:41 > 1:20:48many harrowing cases of rogue landlords literally forcing people

1:20:48 > 1:20:52to live in squalor and making people's lives hell, so I'm very

1:20:52 > 1:20:57pleased that this bill is going to address some of those issues. I will

1:20:57 > 1:21:01quickly give way.I will be brief and I thank her for giving way.

1:21:01 > 1:21:05Would she accept, given that the private rented sector is a plethora

1:21:05 > 1:21:08of small landladies or landlords like herself, but actually you can

1:21:08 > 1:21:12be a good landlady and it is just a matter of, we do need good landlord

1:21:12 > 1:21:24and landlady is but we need

1:21:32 > 1:21:35really good legislation and good enforcement as well?I thank you

1:21:35 > 1:21:37very much for that intervention. I will be touching on it later and it

1:21:37 > 1:21:40is seriously important. What we don't want to do is make private

1:21:40 > 1:21:43landlords, the good ones, feel as if we are outlawing them. We need to

1:21:43 > 1:21:45help them but we need everyone to have good standards. Currently in

1:21:45 > 1:21:47England, the private rented sector houses more people than the social

1:21:47 > 1:21:50rented sector and this is borne out in Taunton Deane. Last year, the

1:21:50 > 1:21:52English Housing survey found that 40% poems in the private rented

1:21:52 > 1:21:54sector had at least one indicator of poorer housing, and... I'm actually

1:21:54 > 1:21:57going to plough on, if you don't mind because I know colleagues are

1:21:57 > 1:22:01gone to want to speak. This is a pretty poor record and it clearly

1:22:01 > 1:22:04demonstrates why there is such a need for this bill to be brought

1:22:04 > 1:22:08forward and I am very pleased to be giving it my support today and also

1:22:08 > 1:22:12very pleased that there is such cross-party working on this. I'm

1:22:12 > 1:22:15often talking to people back in the constituency and they ask if I work

1:22:15 > 1:22:20with other parties, whether we are always arguing. Clearly, we are not.

1:22:20 > 1:22:24On many issues like this, we can really effectively work together, as

1:22:24 > 1:22:28we did on the homelessness reduction bill. I have mentioned to the

1:22:28 > 1:22:33private sector but, of course, it is not just confined to the private

1:22:33 > 1:22:37sector. The social sector is important, can be, and I don't need

1:22:37 > 1:22:40to remind people of the terrible incidents of the Groenefeld fire

1:22:40 > 1:22:46which has brought that into the microscope. To put a few statistics

1:22:46 > 1:22:49on to the scale of the problem, which was touched on by my

1:22:49 > 1:22:55honourable friend from Colchester, according to the 2015-16 English

1:22:55 > 1:22:57housing survey, the nub of properties with a category one

1:22:57 > 1:23:04hazard - and as Mike Orrell friends are ably pointed out - these are

1:23:04 > 1:23:08things that are a serious risk to our health. The number of houses

1:23:08 > 1:23:17rated as that are just over 200,000 in the social tenanted sector and

1:23:17 > 1:23:21over 800,000 in the private rental sector. As I mentioned earlier, and

1:23:21 > 1:23:27I would like to reiterate it, social tenants currently have no effective

1:23:27 > 1:23:32means of address, as the local authorities cannot enforce the

1:23:32 > 1:23:37housing health and safety system against themselves and this bill

1:23:37 > 1:23:46would there for provide social tenants with a much-needed tool to

1:23:46 > 1:23:50provide the repairs. In my time as the MP for Taunton Deane, I have

1:23:50 > 1:23:55dealt with quite a number of issues related to rogue landlords, some

1:23:55 > 1:24:01very serious but also, one person had no back door and it wasn't

1:24:01 > 1:24:08mended and they felt unsafe. Other people had eating that didn't work

1:24:08 > 1:24:18or at other problems. I am in regular contact with the CAD, which

1:24:18 > 1:24:21is quite easy because they're adjusting two doors down. There is

1:24:21 > 1:24:25me a pub Bezier be a matured opposite so I like to think we cater

1:24:25 > 1:24:32for all needs! They have dealt with 130 housing issues and the last

1:24:32 > 1:24:38year, almost a fifth which which are related to accommodation which are

1:24:38 > 1:24:44not fit for purpose and through this bill, those tenants facing very

1:24:44 > 1:24:47serious issues will be able to take some action. But I do want to be

1:24:47 > 1:24:51clear, as was raised by the memorable -- honourable member

1:24:51 > 1:24:55opposite, the vast majority of landlords offer very good

1:24:55 > 1:24:58accommodation and private landlords are a really important part of the

1:24:58 > 1:25:03mix and we need to make sure that they are not jeopardised in any way

1:25:03 > 1:25:07and that they do offer good standards. I am reassured that this

1:25:07 > 1:25:12bill will in no way seek to penalised them. Perhaps the Minister

1:25:12 > 1:25:16will clarify this when she sums up. It simply aims to build on this

1:25:16 > 1:25:21government's strong record of introducing measures, whatever it is

1:25:21 > 1:25:26through, that set clear, simple and enforceable standards. I just wanted

1:25:26 > 1:25:31to say that some of my constituents, not surprisingly, have found the

1:25:31 > 1:25:34current law rather complex, which means it is not always clear what

1:25:34 > 1:25:38their rights are, and common issues like dealing with damp doesn't

1:25:38 > 1:25:42always fall under the landlord's legal responsibilities, even if it

1:25:42 > 1:25:46makes the home uninhabitable, and this bill should clarify matters

1:25:46 > 1:25:50like that. It will also introduce a wide range of additional health

1:25:50 > 1:25:54standards, such as fire safety, through the housing health and

1:25:54 > 1:25:59safety rating system, which will all help keep landlords up to the mark.

1:25:59 > 1:26:04Stamping out bad practice is essential and setting improved

1:26:04 > 1:26:07standards by giving clear indicators to landlords, and above all, this

1:26:07 > 1:26:13bill will empower tenants who, by the way, in the worst cases, will be

1:26:13 > 1:26:19able to provide their own evidence to a judge. It has already been

1:26:19 > 1:26:22touched on with photographs, for example, of the awful things

1:26:22 > 1:26:27happening in their properties, and without relying on the environmental

1:26:27 > 1:26:29health officer or independent service which can be at extra

1:26:29 > 1:26:33expense and be time-consuming, so I think that will be a helpful element

1:26:33 > 1:26:38of the bill. To some, Madam Deputy Speaker, I really do believe that

1:26:38 > 1:26:40this bill will bring greater protections for the residents of

1:26:40 > 1:26:47Taunton Deane, but obviously for wider society. It will make

1:26:47 > 1:26:51residents' lives happier and hopefully more comfortable and so I

1:26:51 > 1:26:55strongly support the measures in this bill, and I wish both the

1:26:55 > 1:27:01honourable member for Westminster North all the very best, who is

1:27:01 > 1:27:09progressing this bill on its journey.Madam Deputy Speaker, I am

1:27:09 > 1:27:14delighted to support a bill that will make a real difference to

1:27:14 > 1:27:18serious problems affecting millions of people who rent in the public and

1:27:18 > 1:27:24private sector. 45% of my casework is housing and the largest

1:27:24 > 1:27:29proportion relates to housing conditions and disrepair as the

1:27:29 > 1:27:35major concern. Put simply, it is the biggest single issue, as for many

1:27:35 > 1:27:42members who have a large private rented sector. Damp, mouldy,

1:27:42 > 1:27:44draughty, infested, unsafe properties is what I see every week

1:27:44 > 1:27:51when I'm knocking on doors in my constituency. It is utterly

1:27:51 > 1:27:55appalling, it affects the health, well-being and life chances of many

1:27:55 > 1:28:01of my constituents and it has been getting steadily worse over the last

1:28:01 > 1:28:06view years, which is highly regrettable. I am delighted, also,

1:28:06 > 1:28:13that there is a chance of getting this bill on the statute book, and

1:28:13 > 1:28:16as the Secretary of State said, this is not the first time it has been

1:28:16 > 1:28:22here. My honourable friend's predecessor's bill was talked out in

1:28:22 > 1:28:262015 and I suppose we ought to thank the usual suspects will stay away

1:28:26 > 1:28:32today in order to allow it fair wind and it was, indeed, voted down to my

1:28:32 > 1:28:40ago, in January 2016, by my honourable friend to my right for

1:28:40 > 1:28:46Erith and Thamesmead, moving a clause in similar terms. It said

1:28:46 > 1:28:50there should be a duty of landlords to ensure homes fit for human

1:28:50 > 1:28:56habitation and remain fit during the course of the tenancy. And I note in

1:28:56 > 1:29:00passing that one of the members on the government benches voted against

1:29:00 > 1:29:05that clause, so the members... We welcome their contributions today,

1:29:05 > 1:29:10the member is for Telford and Harrow East Andy Yates and Corby and

1:29:10 > 1:29:14Colchester and Taunton Deane and, indeed, the Minister, who have all

1:29:14 > 1:29:22seen the light in those last two years and... Well, I would hate ever

1:29:22 > 1:29:28to be churlish in this chamber, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I raise

1:29:28 > 1:29:35those matters only to rejoice at lost sheep who have been found, and

1:29:35 > 1:29:45they speak so well today. I don't wish to, in any way, delay the

1:29:45 > 1:29:51passage of this bill. I just want to make one serious point. The

1:29:51 > 1:29:59explanatory note in paragraph 32 says this, "The bill will not entail

1:29:59 > 1:30:02additional public expenditure, local authorities already have strong

1:30:02 > 1:30:05enforcement powers to tackle poor property. The aim of this bill is to

1:30:05 > 1:30:10enable tenants to pursue their landlord without records to local

1:30:10 > 1:30:13authorities". Many have made the point that local authorities now

1:30:13 > 1:30:16lack the resources in order to do that and that is part of the reason

1:30:16 > 1:30:21why we need to enable tenants themselves, but these are often

1:30:21 > 1:30:24complex matters legally and procedurally to pursue, so I would

1:30:24 > 1:30:30ask the Minister to address that point specifically when she comes to

1:30:30 > 1:30:36speak.

1:30:36 > 1:30:44Into a three months we will have the long awaited review of legal aid and

1:30:44 > 1:30:52sentencing in the act of 2012. I hope that part of that review can

1:30:52 > 1:30:55look at whether legal aid can be extended to cover the provisions of

1:30:55 > 1:31:00this bill. I hope we can go further than that because as has been

1:31:00 > 1:31:10established in review after review, and indeed what the Law Society,

1:31:10 > 1:31:14Shelter and Citizen's Advice said, the cuts in housing legal aid had

1:31:14 > 1:31:23been some of the most damaging. And that applies to do this repair

1:31:23 > 1:31:40cases, where only serious disrepair is eligible for legal aid.

1:31:42 > 1:31:46Guerrilla Lola Lola. As part of that process, we need to being in the

1:31:46 > 1:31:56provision of this bill. I always watch the Conservative Party

1:31:56 > 1:32:00conference, and the Secretary of State said in his beach that he was

1:32:00 > 1:32:03thinking of introducing a housing court as part of a simplification of

1:32:03 > 1:32:07the process for resolving housing issues. I don't know whether the

1:32:07 > 1:32:11Minister has anything more does a about that, but we need a simple and

1:32:11 > 1:32:19straightforward process. I will give way.Is the honourable member aware

1:32:19 > 1:32:22that £22 billion is spent each year on housing benefit? Much of this

1:32:22 > 1:32:28goes to slum landlords who own houses of multiple occupation. A

1:32:28 > 1:32:33better solution would be to use part of the housing benefit bill, give it

1:32:33 > 1:32:36to local councils to build properties on land that they own. If

1:32:36 > 1:32:44you will pardon the pun, we would have more bang for our buck.I don't

1:32:44 > 1:32:47want to be tempted to far away from the subject, but clearly the switch

1:32:47 > 1:32:52from investing capital sums in building decent properties which

1:32:52 > 1:32:58happened on the parties of all colours of all colours towards

1:32:58 > 1:33:04subsidising landlords. It was a deliberate ideological step by

1:33:04 > 1:33:07Conservative governments and is something that has served as very

1:33:07 > 1:33:12badly. That is a more endemic and chronic problem. This bill resolves

1:33:12 > 1:33:16the immediate crisis which we have, particularly in the private rented

1:33:16 > 1:33:20sector. I look forward to the minister at least saying what he

1:33:20 > 1:33:29intends to do to enable tenants to pursue a remedy property. Let me end

1:33:29 > 1:33:35-- remedy properly. Let me end by saying that I would not be here are

1:33:35 > 1:33:39the one up for my honourable friend, the member for Westminster North,

1:33:39 > 1:33:43who has championed this cause and this bill over many years, and it is

1:33:43 > 1:33:46right that members from both sides are paying tribute to her today and

1:33:46 > 1:33:57I hope we can see this bill becomes law.It's a pleasure to follow the

1:33:57 > 1:34:01honourable gentleman for Hammersmith, although I am not one

1:34:01 > 1:34:05of the lost GP referred to, having only been an MP for seven months.

1:34:05 > 1:34:09I'm just a keen, enthusiastic advocate for the bill in its present

1:34:09 > 1:34:15form. Before I turn to the bill, I would be grateful if you would

1:34:15 > 1:34:22convey to Mr Speaker my best wishes for his birthday. The Moonpig card

1:34:22 > 1:34:25that I personally ordered has not arrived, so he will have to settle

1:34:25 > 1:34:36for me just verbally thanking him. The gentleman clearly has an

1:34:36 > 1:34:41encyclopaedic knowledge of people's birthdays. It is the speaker's

1:34:41 > 1:34:45Chaplin's birthday today. With not join with all sides of the Cows in

1:34:45 > 1:34:50wishing her the happiest birthday?I thank my honourable friend for his

1:34:50 > 1:34:56wisdom.We will just take this moment to wish the speaker's

1:34:56 > 1:35:02chaplain a happy birthday, and to wish Mr Speaker a happy birthday. On

1:35:02 > 1:35:10that note... We won't divide. I will assume that the entire House wishes

1:35:10 > 1:35:16to send their best wishes both to Mr Speaker and to Rose. Now the matter

1:35:16 > 1:35:25has been dealt with. Eddie Hughes... Thank you. Turning back to the bill,

1:35:25 > 1:35:28or at least, nearly, I would like to think the honourable member for

1:35:28 > 1:35:30Westminster North are bringing in this bill today and I will be

1:35:30 > 1:35:34seeking her advice in the very near future because I had a Private

1:35:34 > 1:35:37members bill myself that was listed for consideration today with regard

1:35:37 > 1:35:44to carbon monoxide safety. I am grateful for their help in

1:35:44 > 1:35:48publicising that Bill earlier this week. I am also grateful to members

1:35:48 > 1:36:01on both sides of the Cows, particularly those opposite -- of

1:36:01 > 1:36:03the House, particularly those opposite. I will seek advice on to

1:36:03 > 1:36:08how I move my bill on in the future. Thanks to the support of those

1:36:08 > 1:36:11people, I was able to secure a meeting with the new Housing

1:36:11 > 1:36:14minister yesterday, and he had convinced me the Government will

1:36:14 > 1:36:17give some consideration to it so we will be able to return to that topic

1:36:17 > 1:36:24another day. I get to my feet this morning to contribute with a speech.

1:36:24 > 1:36:29If this was an essay, I guess it would be entitled It's Not Always

1:36:29 > 1:36:35Easy Being A Landlord. My perspective is threefold. Firstly, I

1:36:35 > 1:36:41am myself an accidental landlord. Immediately before coming to this

1:36:41 > 1:36:47House, I was the Chief Executive of YMCA Birmingham, a small housing

1:36:47 > 1:36:53association. And I am currently a chairman on the board of a housing

1:36:53 > 1:37:01association in Walsall. I have three separate perspectives. With my own

1:37:01 > 1:37:06personal perspective, I am an accidental landlord. When I married

1:37:06 > 1:37:11my wife and we bought a house together, she already had a house.

1:37:11 > 1:37:14She didn't have complete faith in the long gravity of our

1:37:14 > 1:37:21relationship, obviously -- longevity. , so she thought it would

1:37:21 > 1:37:23be appropriate to hang onto that housing case things didn't turn up

1:37:23 > 1:37:27for the best. Now we have a property that we rent out. It is often the

1:37:27 > 1:37:32case that people inherit a property, but what they don't inherit with

1:37:32 > 1:37:36that property is any understanding of building regulations or safety,

1:37:36 > 1:37:40and matters that would mean they would be able to keep their property

1:37:40 > 1:37:44in good condition while they rented it out. Indeed, I think there is a

1:37:44 > 1:37:49ridiculous statistic that says something like 95% of landlords in

1:37:49 > 1:37:53this country only have one property. So, how would they get the knowledge

1:37:53 > 1:37:58that they need in order to ensure that they are maintaining that

1:37:58 > 1:38:01property appropriately? My own personal case obviously as the chair

1:38:01 > 1:38:05of the board of a housing association with some professional

1:38:05 > 1:38:08experience, I feel I have personally got the knowledge, but there are

1:38:08 > 1:38:14many other landlords who wouldn't. It is not the tenant's fault if

1:38:14 > 1:38:18their landlord doesn't have sufficient experience to know how to

1:38:18 > 1:38:22maintain that property. They should have some redress through the law.

1:38:22 > 1:38:30That is why I am delighted that this bill is going to afford tenants the

1:38:30 > 1:38:34opportunity to see that redress, should it be necessary. As I said,

1:38:34 > 1:38:41immediately before coming to the House, I was assistant chief

1:38:41 > 1:38:44executive at YMCA Birmingham, 300 units of accommodation for

1:38:44 > 1:38:48previously homeless young people. And some of those young people lead

1:38:48 > 1:38:54chaotic lives, to say the least. We had a 72 bed direct access hostel in

1:38:54 > 1:38:59Northfield which was definitely the ugly sister of our portfolio. I'm

1:38:59 > 1:39:08delighted to say that just before I left YMCA, we had been awarded

1:39:08 > 1:39:15£800,000 to address the ground floor of that hostel to ensure that we

1:39:15 > 1:39:20could install ensuite facilities and better cooking facilities. Although

1:39:20 > 1:39:24the accommodation was passable and legally compliant, if you come out

1:39:24 > 1:39:30of prison or straight off the street,...I am grateful for him

1:39:30 > 1:39:36giving way. This bill will extend safety to the large number of

1:39:36 > 1:39:40children who reside in unfit habitation and help narrow the

1:39:40 > 1:39:45educational gap and health gap, is a priority of what a good life should

1:39:45 > 1:39:49be.I would completely endorse the comments of the honourable member

1:39:49 > 1:39:56opposite. And I say, at YMCA, we would take people from 16 years old,

1:39:56 > 1:40:02sometimes previously looked- after children, so it was important that

1:40:02 > 1:40:07that accommodation was of a higher standard. I am grateful for the HCA

1:40:07 > 1:40:13giving YMCA that money to allow us to do that.With the honourable

1:40:13 > 1:40:21gentleman accept the point that also save his -- a safe and secure

1:40:21 > 1:40:24environment has regard to carbon monoxide detectors in the

1:40:24 > 1:40:27accommodation? We campaigned on that for months and it is a high priority

1:40:27 > 1:40:32that people do not die from that silent killer.I completely endorse

1:40:32 > 1:40:38those comments. As you say, that silent killer, you can't see, smell

1:40:38 > 1:40:43it or tasted, so the best way to protect yourself from any problems

1:40:43 > 1:40:47would be to install an audible carbon monoxide detector. Thank you

1:40:47 > 1:40:54for that endorsement of my bill, I think. Also, with regard to the HCA,

1:40:54 > 1:41:00at YMCA, we were given £1 million to build new accommodation at the site

1:41:00 > 1:41:04in Erdington, and when I was working on that project, I was approached by

1:41:04 > 1:41:09one of our tenants who asked that I try to find him some employment on

1:41:09 > 1:41:16the building site, which I did. I offered my support and the company a

1:41:16 > 1:41:18rigid construction offered considerable support, and then all

1:41:18 > 1:41:21of a sudden, that tenant disappeared. We didn't see him

1:41:21 > 1:41:25turning up for work for a few days, and when I went to see him in his

1:41:25 > 1:41:28room, I found he had had some mental health problems and had smashed up

1:41:28 > 1:41:34his room completely, causing considerable damage, which brings me

1:41:34 > 1:41:40to one of the exemptions of the bill. Clearly, in a situation like

1:41:40 > 1:41:44that, there is a different case at play. It is not that the property

1:41:44 > 1:41:46has not been maintained appropriately by the landlord but

1:41:46 > 1:41:51that the tenant hasn't lived in the property in a way that is

1:41:51 > 1:41:58appropriate for the proper in -- the property. Sometimes it is not

1:41:58 > 1:42:06necessarily the case that the landlord isn't maintaining property.

1:42:06 > 1:42:12Finally, I would like to move on to my tenure as chairman of the board

1:42:12 > 1:42:18of the housing group. It is a housing association with 20,000

1:42:18 > 1:42:22homes, so clearly they have the facilities and money to maintain the

1:42:22 > 1:42:27stock properly. At any given time, it may be the case that up to ten of

1:42:27 > 1:42:31those properties do not have a current gas certificate. That's not

1:42:31 > 1:42:35because we haven't been diligent in ensuring that there is a certificate

1:42:35 > 1:42:39the property but because we haven't been able to get access to that

1:42:39 > 1:42:44property. And sometimes the only course of redress is to seek legal

1:42:44 > 1:42:51access which can go on for many months and cost thousands of pounds.

1:42:51 > 1:42:56I heard of a case this morning where we have a tenant who is in prison,

1:42:56 > 1:43:01and yet we still cannot gain access to the property in order to service

1:43:01 > 1:43:04the boiler because the courts are saying that we need to consider

1:43:04 > 1:43:10further action. Although it could be possible that you are a completely

1:43:10 > 1:43:14diligent landlord, it might not still be possible to maintain the

1:43:14 > 1:43:19property to the standard that you would expect. I think, in the broad

1:43:19 > 1:43:24range of experience that I've got, it is often the case that landlords

1:43:24 > 1:43:30do their very best to maintain a property in a fit and proper state,

1:43:30 > 1:43:36but sometimes that is not the case, and where it isn't all we need

1:43:36 > 1:43:40legislation that ensures that tenants are protected. This

1:43:40 > 1:43:43Government has tenant safety as a very high priority. We've seen that

1:43:43 > 1:43:48in the work that's been carried out since Grenfell, and we'll continue

1:43:48 > 1:43:55to deliver on that. For my own part, I will continue to discharge my

1:43:55 > 1:44:05duties as well.I would like to wholeheartedly endorse and support

1:44:05 > 1:44:11this bill. Along with the financial strains placed on my constituents

1:44:11 > 1:44:15due to the ever rising cost of living, coupled with the wage

1:44:15 > 1:44:19stagnation many have suffered, in Reading, we do have some serious and

1:44:19 > 1:44:26substantial problems with poor quality private accommodation. While

1:44:26 > 1:44:29the council has been robust in tackling rogue landlords, much more

1:44:29 > 1:44:32clearly needs to be done. I would like to briefly run through some of

1:44:32 > 1:44:39the issues we have in our area. Reading council has taken legal

1:44:39 > 1:44:42action against unscrupulous landlords who have allowed their

1:44:42 > 1:44:47properties to fall into such decline as to cause safety and environmental

1:44:47 > 1:44:52health concerns. Such action as resulted in considerable financial

1:44:52 > 1:44:56penalties and in conditions being imposed through the court system. I

1:44:56 > 1:44:58believe that it is unfortunate that there are some landlords whose

1:44:58 > 1:45:02properties do not meet the standards which every tenant has a right to

1:45:02 > 1:45:05expect. Nobody should have to live in a property with mouldy walls,

1:45:05 > 1:45:10faulty electrical sockets, holes in the ceiling, open drains or

1:45:10 > 1:45:14cockroach infestation. Yet, in recent years, we have seen these

1:45:14 > 1:45:18issues in a relatively wealthy town in the south-east of England, which

1:45:18 > 1:45:22is something I find deeply disturbing and indeed shocking.

1:45:22 > 1:45:26There has also been a significant ramping up in the price of rented

1:45:26 > 1:45:31properties whilst the standards for many renters have sadly declined at

1:45:31 > 1:45:36an alarming rate. The impact of living in such squalor is not only a

1:45:36 > 1:45:38financial one. As we have already heard from other members, there have

1:45:38 > 1:45:44been instances of local people having to visit their family doctor

1:45:44 > 1:45:49or even go to A&E with illnesses that are quite clearly borne out of

1:45:49 > 1:45:51the unsavoury conditions in which they are having to live. I should

1:45:51 > 1:45:56point out the scale of this issue, which I think is interesting, given

1:45:56 > 1:46:00the relative wealth of the town I represent. 28% of Reading's housing

1:46:00 > 1:46:08stock is privately rented. That indicates the size of many of our

1:46:08 > 1:46:12small to medium-sized towns across the country. The infrastructure is

1:46:12 > 1:46:14not able to support the increase in population, including the lack of

1:46:14 > 1:46:19supply of affordable housing. With demand outstripping supply, there

1:46:19 > 1:46:23has been a profusion of flats, bedsits and studios to rent a

1:46:23 > 1:46:27peering across the town at often exorbitant rents will stop I should

1:46:27 > 1:46:32add that Reading Borough Council did have a plan to build 1000 U council

1:46:32 > 1:46:39houses. Sadly, in the summer 2015 budget, that plan was stopped.

1:46:39 > 1:46:44He mention the issue about healthy accommodation. Would he agree with

1:46:44 > 1:46:47me that, actually, poor rented and healthy accommodation is also not

1:46:47 > 1:46:52only terrible for those living in it but a drain on the NHS. I've had a

1:46:52 > 1:46:57number of cases where perhaps an elderly person is needing to be

1:46:57 > 1:46:59discharged from hospital or a premature baby to be brought back

1:46:59 > 1:47:03home for the first time, and they're not able to be discharged from

1:47:03 > 1:47:10hospital because the home into which they're coming is not safe.I'd like

1:47:10 > 1:47:14to thank my honourable friend for her contribution. It is a very sad

1:47:14 > 1:47:17but salient point that this is indeed happening and putting

1:47:17 > 1:47:22unwarranted pressure on our NHS at a time of great strain on the service

1:47:22 > 1:47:26and, indeed, when the Government has had to cancel many nonurgent

1:47:26 > 1:47:29operations this winter, during the winter crisis. Indeed, my honourable

1:47:29 > 1:47:33friend has picked up on many points which I wish to make so for the sake

1:47:33 > 1:47:36of brevity and with other honourable members wishing to speak, I would

1:47:36 > 1:47:40like to conclude by remarks by thanking her and saying that I

1:47:40 > 1:47:44appreciate the all-party support for this bill and my honourable friend's

1:47:44 > 1:47:54initiative in bringing this forward. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I

1:47:54 > 1:47:58rise briefly to welcome this bill and to congratulate the Member for

1:47:58 > 1:48:06West Minster -- Westminster North are bringing it forward. We all need

1:48:06 > 1:48:10a good home. It brings stability and a place of family and of safety. As

1:48:10 > 1:48:14has been said today, we recognise that the vast majority of landlords

1:48:14 > 1:48:18are providing safe, secure and nights accommodation for Britain to

1:48:18 > 1:48:23live in but it is unacceptable that for some that is not the case. As a

1:48:23 > 1:48:28doctor, I wanted to briefly highlight the medical obligations

1:48:28 > 1:48:35and health implications of poor housing conditions. We know that the

1:48:35 > 1:48:40hazards of having things like faulty wiring or a faulty boiler are very

1:48:40 > 1:48:44obvious but actually living in a cold damp home has significant

1:48:44 > 1:48:48effects on your health, particularly for the elderly and for young

1:48:48 > 1:48:54children. And if you look at things like X-Men, depression, asthma, all

1:48:54 > 1:48:57sorts of respiratory conditions are made significantly worse if you live

1:48:57 > 1:49:02in a home that is called or damp. As previously mentioned by one of the

1:49:02 > 1:49:07honourable members opposite, this is costing the NHS around £1.4 billion

1:49:07 > 1:49:11a year but it is not just costing the NHS. It is costing those

1:49:11 > 1:49:15individual people who are suffering and we need to recognise the effect

1:49:15 > 1:49:20on the individual as well. Many doctors like myself have, over time,

1:49:20 > 1:49:26written to authorities to highlight what the lady opposite said about

1:49:26 > 1:49:30people being unable to be discharged from hospital because there

1:49:30 > 1:49:37conditions are not satisfactory and oxygen is a particular issue. It is

1:49:37 > 1:49:42clear we have an obligation to do this. Children who are suffering

1:49:42 > 1:49:47from an health -- ill-health, we need to remember that they don't

1:49:47 > 1:49:50sleep very well. When they don't sleep very well, they are less able

1:49:50 > 1:49:55to pull themselves out of the poverty trap, so we have a clear

1:49:55 > 1:49:59moral obligation to ensure that people have safe homes to live in

1:49:59 > 1:50:05that are healthy for them.Just on that very point, is she worried, as

1:50:05 > 1:50:11I am worried, that not only do we have homes that are not really fit

1:50:11 > 1:50:14for human habitation, especially for families with children, but very

1:50:14 > 1:50:18often we don't know where those children are. With the growth of

1:50:18 > 1:50:21home-schooling and looking at what happened in California last week,

1:50:21 > 1:50:28there are some very serious problems.I thank him for his

1:50:28 > 1:50:31intervention and I agree with him that it is extremely important that

1:50:31 > 1:50:36we make sure children are living in safe and secure homes. This bill

1:50:36 > 1:50:41brings a welcome ability for people to have individual redress to their

1:50:41 > 1:50:44landlords, and takes away the conflict of interest from local

1:50:44 > 1:50:48authorities, who would be asked to enforce themselves, effectively. But

1:50:48 > 1:50:52I think it is important... It is a question for the Government, really,

1:50:52 > 1:50:57to make sure that whilst putting this provision in all to make sure

1:50:57 > 1:51:01people have this ability and are empowered to force this, what we

1:51:01 > 1:51:04need to make sure is that people have the knowledge, they know that

1:51:04 > 1:51:09this bill has been passed, they know that they have this right, but also

1:51:09 > 1:51:13that they have access to the advice and legal representation that they

1:51:13 > 1:51:22need to be able to enforce it. I welcome this bill, thank you.Thank

1:51:22 > 1:51:25you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it is a pleasure to be called to speak on

1:51:25 > 1:51:30this bill, to be able to speak on this bill, because before the

1:51:30 > 1:51:36reshuffle I would have had to have been sat where my honourable friend

1:51:36 > 1:51:39the Member for Croydon South is sat so it is a pleasure to be able to

1:51:39 > 1:51:42speak on this and certainly, as the former parliamentary private

1:51:42 > 1:51:47secretary to the housing minister, the Member for Reading West, I know

1:51:47 > 1:51:50how hard the Member for Westminster North worked to reach agreement to

1:51:50 > 1:51:54come forward with a bill that would genuinely make a difference and, to

1:51:54 > 1:51:57be fair to her as an opposition member, resisting the urge to make

1:51:57 > 1:52:03points and actually wanting to make progress and deliver for those who

1:52:03 > 1:52:08represents so well here and this has. Whilst I am starting to welcome

1:52:08 > 1:52:13my long-standing friend the Minister to her place now, I think she and I

1:52:13 > 1:52:19could probably remember us slogging our way across parts of the

1:52:19 > 1:52:22constituency delivering election literature about 13 or 14 years

1:52:22 > 1:52:29ago... I think 18 years ago was the first time I met her and it was a

1:52:29 > 1:52:35pleasure to have her up my and Hazel's wedding last year. For those

1:52:35 > 1:52:39who know that I can speak through while on a Friday, I have no

1:52:39 > 1:52:43intention of attempting to talk this bill out but I do want to set on

1:52:43 > 1:52:48record why this bill is needed. The benefits of the bill and why I think

1:52:48 > 1:52:52it is proportional to the benefits and the actual impact and how I hope

1:52:52 > 1:52:59that can be dealt with. So, why has this bill been needed? I think many

1:52:59 > 1:53:02members have made their point about why it is. When I was looking

1:53:02 > 1:53:04through the House of Commons library briefing notes, I was particularly

1:53:04 > 1:53:10struck by the figures it gave for the 2015-16 English Housing survey,

1:53:10 > 1:53:14talking about how the private rented sector, the highest proportion of

1:53:14 > 1:53:18properties that had at least one indicator of poor housing standards

1:53:18 > 1:53:22at 40 percentage topic does have to be said in fairness, the level of on

1:53:22 > 1:53:31decent homes in the private rental sector had declined from 47% to 30%

1:53:31 > 1:53:35between 2006 and 2013. It indicates the need for this type of

1:53:35 > 1:53:39legislation. I think it was the number force Sheffield South East,

1:53:39 > 1:53:43who sadly is on those currently, who referred to the current housing

1:53:43 > 1:53:47health and safety rating system, which I think it's safe to say is

1:53:47 > 1:53:51far from perfect. Because it is risk-based, it is hard to see many

1:53:51 > 1:53:57tenants being able to grasp what that means, what the benefits of a

1:53:57 > 1:54:02doubt it as was rightly pointed out by the for Taunton Deane, councils

1:54:02 > 1:54:14cannot enforce against themselves. Lieutenant... League go and talk to

1:54:14 > 1:54:19their landlord about the properties. It makes it possible for a tenant to

1:54:19 > 1:54:23enforce a legal right against the landlord. It would be bizarre if we

1:54:23 > 1:54:28said that those looking for social care is provided by local

1:54:28 > 1:54:32authorities couldn't challenge illegally because it was being

1:54:32 > 1:54:35challenged by the local authority. It is right that they now bring it

1:54:35 > 1:54:41in. I also welcome that this can sit alongside other areas and I look at

1:54:41 > 1:54:44housing standards, particularly in parts of my areas like Melville

1:54:44 > 1:54:48Hill, where Nick Bailey, a gentleman who I don't agree with a lot of

1:54:48 > 1:54:51politics on, where some of the concerns they have been about

1:54:51 > 1:54:55standards of rental accommodation. We've heard reference to new towns

1:54:55 > 1:54:59from the honourable members for Telford and Corby and about the

1:54:59 > 1:55:03standards for what title property was innovative 60 years ago and now

1:55:03 > 1:55:07anything but. In Torquay, we have a particular issue with parts of

1:55:07 > 1:55:10Paignton, where Victorian properties that were once grand villas, huge

1:55:10 > 1:55:15places that were used in the summer by aristocratic families have now

1:55:15 > 1:55:19been split into multiple units, aren't particularly good quality

1:55:19 > 1:55:24units, perhaps have seen very high turnover of tenants and, in some

1:55:24 > 1:55:29cases are literally the properties that are rented to those who can

1:55:29 > 1:55:34rent nowhere else. One two of the photos that Nick shared on a website

1:55:34 > 1:55:37look like something you would expect from a Dickensian era and that is

1:55:37 > 1:55:41why I think it is right that we give a further ability to try and

1:55:41 > 1:55:45enforce. Coming onto the benefits of this bill, it is right that it is a

1:55:45 > 1:55:49modern law, a piece of legislation grounded on the 21st century housing

1:55:49 > 1:55:52market, not just an attempt to revive the peace of Victorian

1:55:52 > 1:55:56legislation, passed in an era when housing standards were very, very

1:55:56 > 1:56:00different. It sets a clear standard, brings forward a clear remedy and

1:56:00 > 1:56:06also makes it possible for a tenant to take action. In terms of whether

1:56:06 > 1:56:09any piece of legislation is proportionate, and is it

1:56:09 > 1:56:14proportionate to the needs? Well, many members speaking this afternoon

1:56:14 > 1:56:19have made very clear the problem is that poor housing can bring and I

1:56:19 > 1:56:23see it in some of my own advice surgeries. I think we have

1:56:23 > 1:56:27absolutely no fear to the vast majority of landlords who provide

1:56:27 > 1:56:32decent accommodation at reasonable prices. Anyone sat at home thinking,

1:56:32 > 1:56:35"But I try and do a good job and keep my property in good condition,"

1:56:35 > 1:56:40this debate is completely irrelevant to them. The person who does need to

1:56:40 > 1:56:43be concerned as the person who never picks up the phone to their tenner

1:56:43 > 1:56:48when it was a complaint, who has just about avoid prosecution by the

1:56:48 > 1:56:50council a couple of times and those that bluntly the property they rent

1:56:50 > 1:56:54out is not somewhere they would even think of living themselves. Those

1:56:54 > 1:56:59are the sort of people who should be listening in. I think it is right

1:56:59 > 1:57:02that this pace progress, sitting alongside the inevitable review of

1:57:02 > 1:57:07the main regulations we are going to be having following the incident in

1:57:07 > 1:57:10Grenfell. It was a pleasure to work on that in what was then the DCLG

1:57:10 > 1:57:13but it is right that we make progress on this, given that it

1:57:13 > 1:57:16keeps that remedy and we can have a debate in future about the exact

1:57:16 > 1:57:22process we go through to talk I can talk about selective licensing. I am

1:57:22 > 1:57:26supportive of parts of it in some parts of my constituency but have

1:57:26 > 1:57:29always been clear that is not something you can apply everywhere.

1:57:29 > 1:57:37You can apply it to... Part of my coastal areas would not make sense

1:57:37 > 1:57:39so this apply everywhere just deals with if there are properties that

1:57:39 > 1:57:44have an issue. I welcome the fact when I was with the Minister that

1:57:44 > 1:57:47the licensing was approved to continue renewing and it is right

1:57:47 > 1:57:50that local authorities are able to look at whether it is right for

1:57:50 > 1:57:52their areas and their communities and there are parts of Torbay I

1:57:52 > 1:57:59believe it would be right to have. I think we need to be very clear and

1:57:59 > 1:58:01the Minister very clear in her response to local authorities that

1:58:01 > 1:58:06this is not about replacing the system of prosecuting those who do

1:58:06 > 1:58:10not make repairs they have been required to do. This is not a

1:58:10 > 1:58:14replacement of the criminal law, not something that can be used as an

1:58:14 > 1:58:18excuse for not prosecuting people. This is something that is an

1:58:18 > 1:58:22additional right and an additional power on top of what local

1:58:22 > 1:58:26authorities should be doing. I refer to my intervention on the honourable

1:58:26 > 1:58:30member for Telford for the fact that the increased level of civil penalty

1:58:30 > 1:58:37councils do not apply. We increased the housing standards team to be

1:58:37 > 1:58:41able to enforce more on the basis that they can apply appropriate

1:58:41 > 1:58:44penalties and rogue landlords paying for enforcement against themselves.

1:58:44 > 1:58:50It is something that all of us would welcome. I hope the Minister will

1:58:50 > 1:58:53perhaps dwell slightly on how she sees the ability to bring this to

1:58:53 > 1:58:56court. What sort of discussions would she be having with the

1:58:56 > 1:59:02Secretary of State for Justice about how this could be taken through,

1:59:02 > 1:59:06would be in the small claims track, how we make sure the process is

1:59:06 > 1:59:10simple and how it will be communicated. What we don't want is

1:59:10 > 1:59:14a right that sits on the statute but that is very hard for people to

1:59:14 > 1:59:18enforce and implement it up overall, this has been a very welcome bill. I

1:59:18 > 1:59:24think the tone of the debate has been extremely welcome as well. It

1:59:24 > 1:59:28is exactly what a Friday should be about. It is a problem that members

1:59:28 > 1:59:31have identified from their constituency, from their casework

1:59:31 > 1:59:37and a hole in the law that could be plugged. It is something I think

1:59:37 > 1:59:41could be a benefit of residents to Torbay and would certainly be a

1:59:41 > 1:59:45benefit to those areas that have more acute housing problems that

1:59:45 > 1:59:47thankfully Torbay does not have and is a very proportionate bill in what

1:59:47 > 1:59:55it sets out to do. There will be those listening thinking, is this

1:59:55 > 1:59:59something about launching clear? No, it is a clear it isn't the only

1:59:59 > 2:00:02people who have anything to worry about those who don't maintain their

2:00:02 > 2:00:09properties to the standards tenants deserve.Minister Heather Wheeler.

2:00:09 > 2:00:14Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, and, again, happy birthday

2:00:14 > 2:00:19to Mr Speaker and two Rose. I would like to congratulate the honourable

2:00:19 > 2:00:23lady for Westminster North on her success in the private members' bill

2:00:23 > 2:00:27ballot and for bringing attention to the important issue of property

2:00:27 > 2:00:30standards in the rented housing market and, indeed, for her huge

2:00:30 > 2:00:36amount of work and interest in this area. I also refer to my entry into

2:00:36 > 2:00:42the ministerial register of interests.

2:00:42 > 2:00:46Everyone deserves a decent and safe place to live. Most properties in

2:00:46 > 2:01:04the private and rented sector -- private and rented sectors...

2:01:19 > 2:01:23Whilst there is a large range of potential hazards, in practice, as

2:01:23 > 2:01:29we know from the English survey data, the vast majority of accidents

2:01:29 > 2:01:35are to do with slips, trips and full, excess cold, fire risk, damp

2:01:35 > 2:01:38and poor sanitation. This bill fits well with the work the Government

2:01:38 > 2:01:42has already done to improve standards in the private rented

2:01:42 > 2:01:45sector, which is an important part of our housing market, housing 4.3

2:01:45 > 2:01:50million households in England. The quality of private rented housing

2:01:50 > 2:01:58has improved rapidly over the past decade, with 82% of private renters

2:01:58 > 2:02:02satisfied and staying in their homes for an average of 4.3 years. The

2:02:02 > 2:02:06Government wants to support good landlords who provide decent homes.

2:02:06 > 2:02:10And to avoid further regulation on them, which increases costs, red

2:02:10 > 2:02:16tape, and which also pushes up rent and reduces choice. A small number

2:02:16 > 2:02:20of rogue and criminal landlords knowingly rent out I'm safe in

2:02:20 > 2:02:23substandard accommodation. We are determined to crack down on these

2:02:23 > 2:02:32landlords and this. There is -- and disturb their business model. We

2:02:32 > 2:02:34need to proactively ensure that properties are free from hazards and

2:02:34 > 2:02:42to empower all tenants to hold their landlord to account. The alternative

2:02:42 > 2:02:50is not fair... I woke, if you don't mind. There is very important

2:02:50 > 2:03:02business coming up afterwards. The Government is also committed to

2:03:02 > 2:03:05providing tenants with alternative means of redress, strengthening

2:03:05 > 2:03:10rights and protecting renters against poor practice. This bill

2:03:10 > 2:03:15aligns with the support of those broader proposals to improve

2:03:15 > 2:03:18consumer experience across the housing sector. Further enable

2:03:18 > 2:03:23tenants to take direct action themselves will help free up

2:03:23 > 2:03:26resources to better tackle the criminal landlords who rent out

2:03:26 > 2:03:37hazardous and unsafe dwellings. I won't, if you don't mind. We have

2:03:37 > 2:03:40already published guidance for tenants to help them understand

2:03:40 > 2:03:42their rights and responsibilities and what to do if something goes

2:03:42 > 2:03:47wrong. This should satisfy my honourable friend for Harrow East,

2:03:47 > 2:03:54with his concerns about retaliatory action. And guidance to help them

2:03:54 > 2:03:59ensure the home is free of potential dangerous hazards. A revised version

2:03:59 > 2:04:05of these documents will be published shortly, alongside guidance for

2:04:05 > 2:04:10landlords and their responsibility. And to reply to members' questions

2:04:10 > 2:04:14about legal aid, the procedure in this bill is designed to be

2:04:14 > 2:04:18straightforward, and tenants will frequently be able to represent

2:04:18 > 2:04:22themselves. For more complex cases, legal aid will be available, subject

2:04:22 > 2:04:29to Ingram criteria. -- income criteria. Most tenants should be

2:04:29 > 2:04:32able to identify an obvious hazard without the need for a solicitor,

2:04:32 > 2:04:36but I repeat, legal aid will be available in cases where the tenant

2:04:36 > 2:04:41is eligible. I also note that other members have been interested in

2:04:41 > 2:04:45issues about local authority funding. We have given local

2:04:45 > 2:04:50authorities the power to impose civil penalties of up to £30,000 for

2:04:50 > 2:04:53housing offences, so councils will be able to keep this money and reuse

2:04:53 > 2:04:59it for housing enforcement, exactly as we have heard. Proactive councils

2:04:59 > 2:05:06are taking on staff to deal with theirs, because the no, sadly, the

2:05:06 > 2:05:11money will come in. The Secretary of State for housing has also announced

2:05:11 > 2:05:16the Government's support for this bill, fully in line with the

2:05:16 > 2:05:21thoughts of our Prime Minister. No, sadly. I am going to finish now

2:05:21 > 2:05:25because there is an important bill following this one. I met with the

2:05:25 > 2:05:28member for Westminster North yesterday and I know that she has a

2:05:28 > 2:05:34productive meetings with the previous housing minister and my

2:05:34 > 2:05:37officials. I thank them and all the stakeholders for the work involved

2:05:37 > 2:05:43so far. I have every confidence that this will continue as we approach

2:05:43 > 2:05:49the committee stage, and the absolutely finish, we did have a

2:05:49 > 2:05:53wonderful speech from my good friend from Walsall North, who was making

2:05:53 > 2:05:57comments about the carbon monoxide. I would like to thank him for

2:05:57 > 2:06:03raising awareness about the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning. We

2:06:03 > 2:06:07share a common goal in wanting people to be safe in their homes.

2:06:07 > 2:06:12The Government will continue to work to reduce the risk of carbon

2:06:12 > 2:06:15monoxide poisoning, including a role for legislation where it is sensible

2:06:15 > 2:06:20and proportionate to do so. We have plans to extend requirements for

2:06:20 > 2:06:25carbon monoxide alarms but need a stronger evidence base to form new

2:06:25 > 2:06:31legislation. I am pleased to hear from my honourable friend the member

2:06:31 > 2:06:34for Epsom, and we can agree to work together and take this matter

2:06:34 > 2:06:40forward. Thank you very much. I have finished there. This is an excellent

2:06:40 > 2:06:46bill. Again, I congratulate the lady from Westminster North for her huge

2:06:46 > 2:07:03amount of work, and I congratulate all the 27 speakers...

2:07:17 > 2:07:21It has been a superb debate on all sides, and what the chamber does

2:07:21 > 2:07:25best on a Friday. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

2:07:29 > 2:07:33I rise only to thank the Minister on her first outing at the dispatch box

2:07:33 > 2:07:39in this role for her support. And to thank the many speakers whom she has

2:07:39 > 2:07:46listed. From all sides, they have made important contributions that

2:07:46 > 2:07:50have supported the bill, but also reminded us through a number of

2:07:50 > 2:07:54examples in her own case work of just why this is needed. This has

2:07:54 > 2:08:01been a consensual debate today, almost overwhelmingly. And I am very

2:08:01 > 2:08:06grateful for that. Members have also raised a number of issues that we

2:08:06 > 2:08:12need to continue to keep in mind, that advice, legal aid, about

2:08:12 > 2:08:16investment in housing overall, other ways in which we can strengthen the

2:08:16 > 2:08:20rights of tenants. Normal service will be resumed on all these issues

2:08:20 > 2:08:25by myself and many others. Today, this is an important bill. It has

2:08:25 > 2:08:29been a long time in coming, and I am absolutely delighted that we're now

2:08:29 > 2:08:33able to take it forward with Government support, and I look

2:08:33 > 2:08:42forward to moving it its conclusion. The question is that the bill be now

2:08:42 > 2:08:47read as second time. As many as are that opinion, say aye. On the

2:08:47 > 2:08:58contrary, no. The ayes habit. -- have it.

2:09:06 > 2:09:11I beg to move that the stalking protection Bill be now read a second

2:09:11 > 2:09:15time. Stalking is an insidious form of harassment, characterised by

2:09:15 > 2:09:23fixation and obsession. It is the relentless nature of the unwanted

2:09:23 > 2:09:26contact from perpetrators, sometimes continuing for many years, that can

2:09:26 > 2:09:35make it feel completely inescapable. It affects not only the intended

2:09:35 > 2:09:39victim but all those around them, their family, friends, neighbours

2:09:39 > 2:09:44and colleagues. And it can seriously affect both the physical and mental

2:09:44 > 2:09:49health of victims, leaving them feeling isolated and fearful. It can

2:09:49 > 2:09:54also escalate, as we know, to murder and rape. It is much more common

2:09:54 > 2:09:59than many people realise. About one in five women and one in ten men

2:09:59 > 2:10:02will experience some kind of stalking behaviour in their adult

2:10:02 > 2:10:06lifetime, according to the crime survey of England and Wales. But it

2:10:06 > 2:10:10typically takes around 100 episodes of stalking for victims to come

2:10:10 > 2:10:16forward. It is an honour to be able to introduce this private members

2:10:16 > 2:10:21Bill to bring in better and earlier protection for victims of these

2:10:21 > 2:10:26terrible crimes, and I would like to start by paying tribute to the very

2:10:26 > 2:10:31many individuals and organisations who have come forward to support

2:10:31 > 2:10:37this bill and to advise. Many of them have spoken with great courage

2:10:37 > 2:10:39about the devastating personal consequences for themselves,

2:10:39 > 2:10:47including, I'm sorry to say, personal tragic loss. It is with all

2:10:47 > 2:10:51of those individuals in mind that I bring this bill today, and I am very

2:10:51 > 2:10:55grateful to the Minister for her personal support, and also to her

2:10:55 > 2:11:00team for the support and advice they have given me, and to members across

2:11:00 > 2:11:03the House for their support and advice also around the needs of

2:11:03 > 2:11:09victims. In order to make progress on this bill, I think we should also

2:11:09 > 2:11:13recognise the progress that has already been made. Two new stalking

2:11:13 > 2:11:20offences were brought forward in 2012, and it is encouraging that 959

2:11:20 > 2:11:25prosecutions were commenced in 2016-17. I would also like to note

2:11:25 > 2:11:30the progress that was made in increasing the maximum sentence to

2:11:30 > 2:11:35ten years during the policing and crime act, and I would like to pay

2:11:35 > 2:11:40special tribute to my colleague, the honourable member for Cheltenham, in

2:11:40 > 2:11:45bringing this forward. There is a serious gap that remains in the law

2:11:45 > 2:11:50when it comes to victims of what is known as stranger stalking. By that,

2:11:50 > 2:11:56I mean someone who is someone who is stalked by -- someone who is stalked

2:11:56 > 2:12:04by someone who is not a previous or current partner. I think there is

2:12:04 > 2:12:08widespread support for this bill, because this is well recognised. If

2:12:08 > 2:12:13we can step in at an earlier stage, then perhaps we have a better

2:12:13 > 2:12:16opportunity to prevent stalking before the behaviour becomes so

2:12:16 > 2:12:23deeply ingrained.I would like to congratulate her on her bill. I was

2:12:23 > 2:12:27on the anti-stalking commission that got some progress when we were

2:12:27 > 2:12:33trying to catch up with the Scottish law. Some very brave people gave

2:12:33 > 2:12:43evidence. It was switching to online, and the law finds it very

2:12:43 > 2:12:46difficult when someone moves to somewhere else in the world to store

2:12:46 > 2:12:51people.Acts carried out from outside this country will also be

2:12:51 > 2:12:55taken into account, particularly around online stalking. I know that

2:12:55 > 2:12:58the honourable gentleman is absolutely right and I thank him for