22/01/2018

0:00:00 > 0:00:02worked with developers and local authorities about.Order. Urgent

0:00:02 > 0:00:11question. Debbie Abrahams.To ask the Secretary of State for Work and

0:00:11 > 0:00:13Pensions if she will make a statement on the government's plans

0:00:13 > 0:00:22to stop private sector pension abuse.The Secretary of State.Thank

0:00:22 > 0:00:27you, Mr speaker. The vast majority of employers do the right thing by

0:00:27 > 0:00:32their pension schemes and members can expect to receive the pension

0:00:32 > 0:00:37benefits they have paid for throughout their working lives. The

0:00:37 > 0:00:42pensions regulator and protection fund was set up in 2004 to provide

0:00:42 > 0:00:44pension scheme members with the safety net to make sure that their

0:00:44 > 0:00:49pension benefits received some reduction when things go wrong and

0:00:49 > 0:00:55it is a fact that some businesses will file. This pension protection

0:00:55 > 0:00:59fund has been supported or a cross-party basis since 2004 -- will

0:00:59 > 0:01:06fail. The pension protection

0:01:09 > 0:01:14a range of powers have been given, including where boys have failed to

0:01:14 > 0:01:20take account of the skin, are around 6000 defined benefit schemes --

0:01:23 > 0:01:26it is the responsibility of the regulator to strike a balance

0:01:26 > 0:01:32between protecting members, PPF levy payers and minimising any adverse

0:01:32 > 0:01:39affects on sustainable employers businesses when it comes to the

0:01:39 > 0:01:42regulation of defined benefit funding. The regulator doesn't have

0:01:42 > 0:01:50the power to stop businesses paying out thousands as bonuses or evidence

0:01:50 > 0:01:53to shareholders, but where there is a situation where they think the

0:01:53 > 0:01:57scheme is not being treated fairly the regulator will investigate to

0:01:57 > 0:02:01see whether use of its powers is appropriate. But this government is

0:02:01 > 0:02:05clear that we are sponsoring employers and where they are able to

0:02:05 > 0:02:09meet their promises they should and must do so, and that is why we has

0:02:09 > 0:02:12adjusted ways that the current scheme can be strengthened to enable

0:02:12 > 0:02:16the regulator to be more proactive, and in February we published our

0:02:16 > 0:02:24green paper, security and stability of defined pension schemes, which

0:02:24 > 0:02:30could strengthen the pension powers of the regulator by introducing

0:02:30 > 0:02:34fines for actions which harm a pension scheme and we also set out

0:02:34 > 0:02:39powers to enhance the regulator 's ability to make effective governance

0:02:39 > 0:02:44and spot issues before damage is done. The manifesto in June 2017

0:02:44 > 0:02:48reaffirmed this intent by proposing to give the regulator the power to

0:02:48 > 0:02:54impose a putative fine alongside a contribution notice, and the details

0:02:54 > 0:02:59of the fine would be worked through with all the relevant stakeholders

0:02:59 > 0:03:01but it would represent a significant strengthening of the deterrent. We

0:03:01 > 0:03:07also intend to make corporate transactions, some of them, subject

0:03:07 > 0:03:11to clearance, but we must take care to make sure that these measures do

0:03:11 > 0:03:14not have an adverse affect on the legitimate business activity and the

0:03:14 > 0:03:22wider economy. We have received a hundred plus answers -- 800

0:03:22 > 0:03:27responses to the Green paper and these are being looked at, the White

0:03:27 > 0:03:31Paper will be published in the spring. We need a pond flow of

0:03:31 > 0:03:37information between parties concerned and compliance with the

0:03:37 > 0:03:42regulations -- a fast flow of information.

0:03:45 > 0:03:51It remains the case that the government supports free markets and

0:03:51 > 0:04:00enterprise and businesses but this has to be conducted responsibly.

0:04:00 > 0:04:04Yesterday the Prime Minister chose to announce through the media in

0:04:04 > 0:04:06part response to the collapse of Carillion that the government plans

0:04:06 > 0:04:13to introduce tough new rules to stop private sector pension abuse and

0:04:13 > 0:04:20Carillion had 13 defined pension schemes with 28,000 members plus and

0:04:20 > 0:04:26the combined pensions deficit of £587 million. Between the end of

0:04:26 > 0:04:332015 and last year's interim results the difference between their assets

0:04:33 > 0:04:38and liabilities almost doubled. We know profit warnings started to be

0:04:38 > 0:04:43issued in the summer of 2017. Given the severity of the financial

0:04:43 > 0:04:47problems facing Carillion, why didn't the government acts then

0:04:47 > 0:04:49rather than attempting to close the stable door after the horse has

0:04:49 > 0:04:54bolted? We had been arguing for years for the government to take

0:04:54 > 0:04:58better action to protect people's pensions and the government have the

0:04:58 > 0:05:05opportunity to act in 2013 and again in 2015 by supporting the memos from

0:05:05 > 0:05:11Labour -- amendments. More recently the select committee warned the

0:05:11 > 0:05:15government on both the need for protection is and more powers for

0:05:15 > 0:05:21the regulator, and although we welcome the Green paper, the urgency

0:05:21 > 0:05:25has not been there, so why did the minister ignored these warnings were

0:05:25 > 0:05:28dropped the committee made a number recommendation stash ignored these

0:05:28 > 0:05:29warnings?

0:05:33 > 0:05:39... New powers to impose fines at a level which would deter

0:05:39 > 0:05:43irresponsible behaviour, so why did the government refused to implement

0:05:43 > 0:05:47these recommendations at the time? If the government ready to commit to

0:05:47 > 0:05:52these fully? If they had taken action the massive debt accrued by

0:05:52 > 0:05:56Carillion might have been avoided, but given the scale of the

0:05:56 > 0:05:59liabilities what does this mean for the adequacy of the pension

0:05:59 > 0:06:04protection fund? The collapse of kisses has led to a rise in pension

0:06:04 > 0:06:07scammers targeting those with pension pot stash the collapse of

0:06:07 > 0:06:17Carillion. Will she be investigating the backdrop to these schemes who

0:06:17 > 0:06:20are simultaneously betting against their employer question what can the

0:06:20 > 0:06:24minister advised the house what measures will be proposed in the

0:06:24 > 0:06:31White Paper and when exactly will they be brought to the house?As

0:06:31 > 0:06:36both sides of the house no, the regulator is an independent

0:06:36 > 0:06:44arm's-length body and it was set up after much discussion in 2004, and

0:06:44 > 0:06:47how it is best to work and support the pensioners when it needs their

0:06:47 > 0:06:51help, but what it never did is interfere with the runnings of the

0:06:51 > 0:06:57business. That is what was decided. From there we have said we need to

0:06:57 > 0:07:02make sure that if we need to go further weakening, and that is why

0:07:02 > 0:07:08we set about bringing forward a green paper looking at where it was

0:07:08 > 0:07:12best to intervene, we have had 800 responses on that to make sure we

0:07:12 > 0:07:17get the balance right, because we don't want to tip the edge and

0:07:17 > 0:07:20unnecessarily cause harm to a business, and we talk about profit

0:07:20 > 0:07:24warnings, what they mean is, a company is not going to get the

0:07:24 > 0:07:29profit is expecting, no more than that. We have to make sure that the

0:07:29 > 0:07:33government does not precipitate anything that could be seen as

0:07:33 > 0:07:36negative from the business and that is why we are taking all of these

0:07:36 > 0:07:42800 responses and the King at them carefully, how to make sure we

0:07:42 > 0:07:50protect those people employed as a company, protect the pension --

0:07:50 > 0:07:55looking at them carefully. And how we can go forward in a conducive and

0:07:55 > 0:07:59careful manner, and the White Paper will be coming forward later on this

0:07:59 > 0:08:08year.Mr Bernard Jenkin.Can I draw your attention to the fact of how

0:08:08 > 0:08:11the British public are reacting to this because they are seriously

0:08:11 > 0:08:18repelled by the notion that executive directors and even

0:08:18 > 0:08:25ex-directors should carry on drawing large payments at the same time as

0:08:25 > 0:08:31there is a mounting pension deficit, if this is what capitalism was

0:08:31 > 0:08:35really like people would not want it, so what is the government is

0:08:35 > 0:08:41going to do to draw the attention of businesses and to executive

0:08:41 > 0:08:43directors for their government responsibilities in these situations

0:08:43 > 0:08:47in the future? Although this is nothing as bad as the Maxwell

0:08:47 > 0:08:50scandal.

0:08:50 > 0:08:56I agree with my right honourable friend. This is about strengthen

0:08:56 > 0:09:01corporate governance of organisations and giving power to

0:09:01 > 0:09:06the board room, giving shareholders responsibility, this is about having

0:09:06 > 0:09:11responsible businesses doing the right thing and where we can ensure

0:09:11 > 0:09:17that happens, where we can look into investigating what's... Is going

0:09:17 > 0:09:22wrong should things be going wrong, that is right. But as I said, most

0:09:22 > 0:09:28businesses, the vast majority of businesses, there are over 6,000 in

0:09:28 > 0:09:31defined schemes, are doing the right thing. Where it is not, it is right

0:09:31 > 0:09:35that there is fury from the public to make sure that they're doing the

0:09:35 > 0:09:39right thing. That is wloo I the Insolvency Services do

0:09:39 > 0:09:45investigations and get money back where they can.Thank you for

0:09:45 > 0:09:52granting this and congratulate the member for securing it. We are talk

0:09:52 > 0:09:56Ake private sector pensions again highlights the need to address the

0:09:56 > 0:10:03pension industry, something which the SNP has been calling for years.

0:10:03 > 0:10:09The BHS deficit scheme was in deficit. The Carillion is £900

0:10:09 > 0:10:14million in the red. And there are schemes in deficit to the tune of

0:10:14 > 0:10:20£900 million. A ticking time bomb. The issue is while Executives make

0:10:20 > 0:10:26bad decision and are rewarded, 11 million people who rely on a final

0:10:26 > 0:10:32salary pension could be at risk of having the rug pulled from under

0:10:32 > 0:10:36their feet. The SNP has long called for the establishment of an

0:10:36 > 0:10:43independent pensions commission to ensure that employees' savings are

0:10:43 > 0:10:47protected and a more constructive approach is considered. Will the UK

0:10:47 > 0:10:51government make sure the regulator is tasked with the authority to step

0:10:51 > 0:10:57in and protect savers and pensioners before cases like that of BHS or

0:10:57 > 0:11:02Carillion happen again.Well the Pension Protection Fund is there to

0:11:02 > 0:11:08do just that to support the pensioners and they do step in and

0:11:08 > 0:11:16support them where necessary. You're right, where businesses have not

0:11:16 > 0:11:21worked responsibly, we should be getting involved and we did do that

0:11:21 > 0:11:29when we saw the condition with the British... Home stores. What

0:11:29 > 0:11:36happened there, anti-avoidance enforcement did take place and money

0:11:36 > 0:11:43was gone back and we didn't have to use the PPF fund and a prosecution

0:11:43 > 0:11:46did take place. All the instances have been different. But you're

0:11:46 > 0:11:49right where there has been an abuse of the system, we with do an

0:11:49 > 0:11:56investigation and bring those people to account.Thank you Mr Speaker,

0:11:56 > 0:11:59can my honourable friend say what action she is taking in working with

0:11:59 > 0:12:05the Secretary of State of business to look at the conduct of the

0:12:05 > 0:12:08directors of Carillion in this particular case. And specifically

0:12:08 > 0:12:14following on from my honourable friend's... Sorry point... What can

0:12:14 > 0:12:21be done now to recover any of that money for the people affected? ?I

0:12:21 > 0:12:26would like to thank my honourable friend. An investigation is going

0:12:26 > 0:12:37on, not only one which has been initialiate initiate by the

0:12:37 > 0:12:40minister, but the Insolvency Service will investigate and if there is

0:12:40 > 0:12:46evidence that things have been done untoward, a prosecution will follow.

0:12:46 > 0:12:50That is what we are about. We want businesses to act responsibly. They

0:12:50 > 0:12:54employ the majority of people in this country, so it is only right we

0:12:54 > 0:12:57support them when they need their support and also bring them to

0:12:57 > 0:13:05account when they doing things wrong.Thank you, welcome the

0:13:05 > 0:13:10honourable lady back to this department. The Government is

0:13:10 > 0:13:13responsible for the regulatory framework for pensions, can she

0:13:13 > 0:13:17respond to the point my honourable friend raised about defined

0:13:17 > 0:13:19contribution schemes. Is the Government looking at possible

0:13:19 > 0:13:25changes to the rules for defined contribution schemes as well as

0:13:25 > 0:13:32defined schemes?At the moment, we are not looking at rules to change

0:13:32 > 0:13:36to defined contribution, because they're in a very different type of

0:13:36 > 0:13:41pension, one a contribution has been made and therefore that will be

0:13:41 > 0:13:45protected and moved across to another pension whereas the defined

0:13:45 > 0:13:50benefit scheme is what somebody was expecting at the end and therefore

0:13:50 > 0:13:53is protected and so they're different and different rules for

0:13:53 > 0:14:03both of them.Can my honourable friend confirm that constituents who

0:14:03 > 0:14:09have an existing Carillion pension will receive 100% recovery.I can

0:14:09 > 0:14:16state that is the case. If anybody is concerned, about their pension,

0:14:16 > 0:14:30then they should call the hotline which is free and it is 08007561012.

0:14:30 > 0:14:36Thank you. The Secretary of State does not seem to have grasped that

0:14:36 > 0:14:43the decision to carry on paying dividends and to boost the bonuses

0:14:43 > 0:14:48of the board, while running up the pensions deficit were taken by the

0:14:48 > 0:14:59board. So what is she going to do to stop this happening in future?I

0:14:59 > 0:15:02want to thank the member. I do understand the gravity of what

0:15:02 > 0:15:08happened there. But what we never seek to do in this House and hence

0:15:08 > 0:15:16in 2004 after much discussion we gave to it an arm's length body.

0:15:16 > 0:15:19Where misdemeanours, have things have gone wrong, investigations are

0:15:19 > 0:15:23under way, because we are not the investigator, we put the legislation

0:15:23 > 0:15:27in place to make sure those people will be brought to account and if

0:15:27 > 0:15:33they have done something wrong, by goodness we need to bring them to

0:15:33 > 0:15:37account.I have a number of constituents affected by the

0:15:37 > 0:15:41situation with Carillion. Can she first set out what the Pension

0:15:41 > 0:15:47Protection Fund will do to support my constituents who have been

0:15:47 > 0:15:50affected and have pensions through Carillion and can she say what more

0:15:50 > 0:15:56that the Government is going to do to make sure that people who have

0:15:56 > 0:15:59private pensions can be confident going forward that it is the right

0:15:59 > 0:16:04thing to do to invest their savings in the future in a company pension

0:16:04 > 0:16:11fund?I would like to thank my honourable friend and reassure him

0:16:11 > 0:16:16that the Pension Protection Fund is there to provide this lifeboat and

0:16:16 > 0:16:20this support. People have got a pension at the moment, it will be

0:16:20 > 0:16:25100% support. Those coming forward it is will be 90% with a cap. That

0:16:25 > 0:16:29is what we are here to do. To protect the people who have done the

0:16:29 > 0:16:33right thing, people who are saving up for their future, to look after

0:16:33 > 0:16:38them in a responsible way and for people who have done the wrong

0:16:38 > 0:16:53thing, have the right leg lacings lacings regulations.A company was

0:16:53 > 0:16:57is responsible for the pension while betting against the company on the

0:16:57 > 0:17:03stock market. Can we ensure this conflict of interest does not happen

0:17:03 > 0:17:07again?I thank the member, what we will be looking to do from the

0:17:07 > 0:17:13advice that we have got from these 800 responses when weapon put out

0:17:13 > 0:17:18our green paper is find from those who know the area best what they

0:17:18 > 0:17:25believe is the best way to tackle this. We don't want to see matters

0:17:25 > 0:17:35like this happen again.What impact would re-nationalisation have on the

0:17:35 > 0:17:44fundsBe an absolute disaster.My constituent a retired employee of

0:17:44 > 0:17:49Barclays has raised concerns about the future of their pension fund

0:17:49 > 0:17:57with a £7 billion short fall, Barclays moving their liability to

0:17:57 > 0:18:01the investment bank to avoid covering the deficit?What we will

0:18:01 > 0:18:07do for people concerned about their pensions it is take advice from the

0:18:07 > 0:18:12Pensions Advisory Service. That is the best place for this. And the

0:18:12 > 0:18:17regulator will be looking into any instances they think need to have,

0:18:17 > 0:18:24to be investigated.I welcome the Government's commitment to do more

0:18:24 > 0:18:28to protect pensions of private sector workers. Will the Secretary

0:18:28 > 0:18:35of State join with me in agreeing that it is necessary that we have

0:18:35 > 0:18:38private sector providers of public services a and the Government should

0:18:38 > 0:18:45continue to support them?Thank you very much indeed. Of course, it is

0:18:45 > 0:18:51important we have the private sector delivering an array of services,

0:18:51 > 0:18:55because as the world gettings more complicated and more specific we

0:18:55 > 0:18:59need more people with these specific skills to go forward and do that.

0:18:59 > 0:19:10That is the best way to have... A well-functioning country.Thank you.

0:19:10 > 0:19:17The creation of the British Steel pension scheme market two created

0:19:17 > 0:19:22fertile territory for unscrupulous pension advisors to swoop in like

0:19:22 > 0:19:24vultures and exploit vulnerable people what. Lessons have been

0:19:24 > 0:19:30learned from the British Steel pension scheme experience and what

0:19:30 > 0:19:36will the Secretary of State do to see we don't see this tale leading

0:19:36 > 0:19:42to the privatisation of profit and the socialisation of risk?What we

0:19:42 > 0:19:47have learned from that and straightaway was done, eight

0:19:47 > 0:19:51companies were banned from what they have done in any kind of pension

0:19:51 > 0:19:57scam. What we are also doing that we will talk about after is how we will

0:19:57 > 0:20:02bring together advice into a single body, so people are well aware of

0:20:02 > 0:20:05what they can do and what they should be doing and have they done

0:20:05 > 0:20:11the right checks to make sure who they're going to be dealing with is

0:20:11 > 0:20:16a positive body and organisation for their pensions.Thank you Mr

0:20:16 > 0:20:19Speaker, workers have been encouraged to take part in buying

0:20:19 > 0:20:25that are pension and they need to have confidence in that scheme. My

0:20:25 > 0:20:31My right honourable friend mention that fat cats are seen to have no

0:20:31 > 0:20:36risk. What more can we have to have more transparency about how private

0:20:36 > 0:20:42pensions are working and reassurance that those affected have the best

0:20:42 > 0:20:49information they can so they're not sold short while others float above

0:20:49 > 0:20:53the risk.My honourable friend raises a key point, there does need

0:20:53 > 0:21:00to be transparency. This is something you have invested in all

0:21:00 > 0:21:08your life. And as I say, going forward wur with our white paper it

0:21:08 > 0:21:14must be what is best practice and stronger corporate governance within

0:21:14 > 0:21:21these organisations.I would thank you Mr Speaker for granting an

0:21:21 > 0:21:25urgent question on this issue. I would like to welcome the minister

0:21:25 > 0:21:30back to her old post. But my question is, is the Secretary of

0:21:30 > 0:21:35State aware that under current rules pension obligations are unsecured,

0:21:35 > 0:21:40meaning that insolvent companies only fund their schemes once they

0:21:40 > 0:21:50have compensated their over supposedly more important creditors.

0:21:50 > 0:21:58If employees are given a higher priority in future.That is key -

0:21:58 > 0:22:04where do they fit in the line of creditors? Are people being given

0:22:04 > 0:22:07the correct protection and that is why the Pension Protection Fund was

0:22:07 > 0:22:14brought in and that is something that needs to be brought forward

0:22:14 > 0:22:21going forward.The whole subject of pensions is complex. In the context

0:22:21 > 0:22:26of providing advice for those looking for a pension or have

0:22:26 > 0:22:30pensions, what action will the Government take to ensure the better

0:22:30 > 0:22:37delivery of financial and debt advice?Actually, the bill coming

0:22:37 > 0:22:43forward straight after that, after this will be talking about the

0:22:43 > 0:22:48advice that people can get. The support they can get. The

0:22:48 > 0:22:51understanding, the options that are on the table. Because that is what

0:22:51 > 0:23:02is I think very a very positive move to have people to have understanding

0:23:02 > 0:23:08of their finances and have assurance it will come back in a good pension.

0:23:08 > 0:23:14Further to my my honourable friend's question, and in light of the board

0:23:14 > 0:23:17members at Carillion who rewarded themselves with bonuses at the same

0:23:17 > 0:23:21time as allowing that pension deficit to grow, does the Secretary

0:23:21 > 0:23:27of State not feel that she needs additional powers to bring to

0:23:27 > 0:23:33account these executives? And the core porate greed and

0:23:33 > 0:23:38irresponsibility of the behaviour like that at Carillion?I thank the

0:23:38 > 0:23:42honourable lady. At the moment, there is an assessment of the

0:23:42 > 0:23:47situation going on. There is also an investigation going on as to what

0:23:47 > 0:23:52happened and should the regulator need it, they already have powers to

0:23:52 > 0:24:01look at it, into anti-avoidance measures. That might be able to be

0:24:01 > 0:24:04used going forward, precisibly what the honourable lady talks about,

0:24:04 > 0:24:09strengthening the hand of the regulator is what we will be

0:24:09 > 0:24:17bringing forward in the White Paper and was in our manifesto.

0:24:17 > 0:24:27All members are focusing on eyes, understandably, but you should also

0:24:27 > 0:24:31look closely at the powers available to pension trustees -- focusing on

0:24:31 > 0:24:38Carillion.I will indeed do that, it is a friend who knows a lot about

0:24:38 > 0:24:42these matters and we will be taking advice like that and all of the

0:24:42 > 0:24:51other 800 responses into coming up with our solution to these matters.

0:24:51 > 0:24:55Over the last 30 years from time to time we have been back here under

0:24:55 > 0:24:59successive governments and we get promises you will strengthen the

0:24:59 > 0:25:02rules on pension schemes but nothing happens and Carillion will have a

0:25:02 > 0:25:07major impact in the West Midlands, when we going to get tough on these

0:25:07 > 0:25:16directors with tough legislation? We need to do something positive.The

0:25:16 > 0:25:24honourable member is right, people are looking for ways in which we can

0:25:24 > 0:25:30bring those who have not acted scrupulously to account and there

0:25:30 > 0:25:34has been measures that the regulators have had and they have

0:25:34 > 0:25:41proved successful. We had the prosecution of BHS and we

0:25:41 > 0:25:45recuperated £363 million but we have got to adapt to the situations as

0:25:45 > 0:25:47they come forward as well as pre-empting things that are

0:25:47 > 0:25:53happening because none of these cases spoken about have resulted or

0:25:53 > 0:25:57started from the same action, but you are right, we have got to make

0:25:57 > 0:26:01sure that unscrupulous business able are brought to account because we do

0:26:01 > 0:26:07need good business and we do need good private business.Rebecca

0:26:07 > 0:26:15Powell.I would like to applaud the Prime Minister's call for tougher

0:26:15 > 0:26:22action on executives who put pensions at risk. We want private

0:26:22 > 0:26:24pensions to be secure and sustainable because we have

0:26:24 > 0:26:28encouraged people to take them out. Would my friend give assurances that

0:26:28 > 0:26:32the government is taking this very seriously and they can put their

0:26:32 > 0:26:38minds at rest and soon?The honourable lady is right to raise

0:26:38 > 0:26:46this issue. People watching at home, people who are thinking of investing

0:26:46 > 0:26:50in a pension or have a pension want to know they are safe and they also

0:26:50 > 0:26:53want to know what is the government doing to make sure going forward

0:26:53 > 0:26:58they are safe and that is exactly what we are doing with the White

0:26:58 > 0:27:03Paper, by reinforcing and also making tougher corporate governance

0:27:03 > 0:27:07measures, that is what that is about and that is what we intend to do.

0:27:07 > 0:27:15Alan Brown.Thank you. Carillion owed millions of pounds to

0:27:15 > 0:27:22subcontractors and is inevitable there will be other problems for

0:27:22 > 0:27:30other businesses. It is unfair, because the PPF refuses to act as

0:27:30 > 0:27:32guarantor of last resort in multi-employer schemes so when will

0:27:32 > 0:27:42the government and this is another may -- end this anomaly?I'm aware

0:27:42 > 0:27:45that this was debated with the minister for pensions ten days ago

0:27:45 > 0:27:50and they are looking specifically at the points you raised. Clearly the

0:27:50 > 0:27:55honourable member is raising these points now and you are fighting a

0:27:55 > 0:28:00good cause and I'm sure we will be able to come up with a solution.The

0:28:00 > 0:28:03best form of pension protection anyone can have is a sustainable

0:28:03 > 0:28:08employer and whilst TBR has wide powers they are rarely used and it

0:28:08 > 0:28:13is often a bit toothless. Is the Secretary of State satisfied that

0:28:13 > 0:28:19any new powers will be backed by proper resources?It is always vital

0:28:19 > 0:28:23that if you are going to bring something forward it has to be

0:28:23 > 0:28:28workable and it has to have strong and secure footing to be able to

0:28:28 > 0:28:34afford them, so that is one of the points that we are looking at as we

0:28:34 > 0:28:40review, how to bring forward stronger legislation.As a part of

0:28:40 > 0:28:47the Tata Steel group merger, workers faced slashing their pension funds

0:28:47 > 0:28:52if they joined the PFP or joined a new scheme with reduced benefits and

0:28:52 > 0:28:59this led to a feeding frenzy of mis-selling, does she think that the

0:28:59 > 0:29:06steelworkers of Wales were treated fairly?What we have got to make

0:29:06 > 0:29:10sure we do is look after the people who have the pension and what we

0:29:10 > 0:29:13have also got to make sure is that we keep the company going as a

0:29:13 > 0:29:20viable concern. At the time that was deemed as the best way going forward

0:29:20 > 0:29:24but we have got to make sure it is always the best solution that is

0:29:24 > 0:29:31there at the time and also secure future legislation to make sure we

0:29:31 > 0:29:34have better regulation and law in place.Nigel Havers.

0:29:36 > 0:29:40This weekend I saw some commentators who ought to know better, say things

0:29:40 > 0:29:52like Carillion employees risk losing their pension, what British to --

0:29:52 > 0:29:58what percentage of their pension can bake expect to get? -- candidate

0:29:59 > 0:30:05those in receipt of a pension, that is 100%, those in receipt in the

0:30:05 > 0:30:09future, that is 90%, subject to a cap, so please rest assured if you

0:30:09 > 0:30:13are concerned about your pensionand you can always come forward and go

0:30:13 > 0:30:21to our free helpline.May I welcome the Secretary of State to her new

0:30:21 > 0:30:26position and thank the reassurances she has given the house. GKN employs

0:30:26 > 0:30:32340 people in Telford and is subject of a proposed hostile takeover, will

0:30:32 > 0:30:36the minister confirmed that the safety of pensions will be a

0:30:36 > 0:30:42priority for her department in the event that the takeover proceeds?It

0:30:42 > 0:30:49is a matter for the pensions regulator but clearly we have the

0:30:49 > 0:30:53regulator in place and we have the pension protection fund implies an

0:30:53 > 0:30:57clearly that is what we will be looking at to make sure that

0:30:57 > 0:31:03pensioners are safe and protected -- pension but action fund in place.

0:31:03 > 0:31:11How is it that some of these pension deficits are allowed to get so large

0:31:11 > 0:31:18before action is taken?Thank you for the question. We allow

0:31:18 > 0:31:24businesses to run their business without interfering and therefore we

0:31:24 > 0:31:32don't know the complete structure of their profit and loss and their

0:31:32 > 0:31:37assets and liabilities but what we do have, should anybody wish to

0:31:37 > 0:31:42bring a concern about their business, they are free to do so, to

0:31:42 > 0:31:48a regulator, and going forward with the combined corporate governance

0:31:48 > 0:31:52review that we are doing and also the new legislation, we will make

0:31:52 > 0:31:57sure pensions are on as firm a footing as possible and make sure

0:31:57 > 0:32:04that such abuses do not happen.I'm sure the Secretary of State will

0:32:04 > 0:32:06agree that the recent prosecution of Dominic Chappell should put

0:32:06 > 0:32:15directors who are taking dangers with employees pensions, on alert of

0:32:15 > 0:32:21the dangers they could face, but will she agree with me that we could

0:32:21 > 0:32:26go further in attaching personal responsibility to those who make

0:32:26 > 0:32:28disastrous as Asians?

0:32:32 > 0:32:37-- to those who make disastrous decisions?That is exactly what we

0:32:37 > 0:32:41will be doing, how do we empower the regulator and how do we allow them

0:32:41 > 0:32:45to make finds going forward but this needs to be a balanced response and

0:32:45 > 0:32:48not a knee jerk response and we need to make sure it works for pensioners

0:32:48 > 0:32:57and businesses going forward.When a major UK business collapses it is

0:32:57 > 0:33:01very important that the existing and future pensions are given

0:33:01 > 0:33:07reassurance about their situation, and in the case of BHS this has

0:33:07 > 0:33:13elected to constitute a joint select committee to look at aspects of the

0:33:13 > 0:33:22pension, so could a joint select committee would be welcomed to look

0:33:22 > 0:33:25into Carillion, and in terms of the pensioners, existing pensioners

0:33:25 > 0:33:28would get 100% of what is going to go to them through the pension but

0:33:28 > 0:33:38action fund and future pensioners, 90% -- pension protection fund. The

0:33:38 > 0:33:42PPF is very capable of looking after the worst case and are rare.My

0:33:42 > 0:33:45honourable friend has a lot of experience in this matter and is

0:33:45 > 0:33:52right in saying that the PPF is robust and has got a lot of

0:33:52 > 0:33:55resources so these people are safe and they will be protected and that

0:33:55 > 0:33:59is what they need to know now. The government has clearly, from the

0:33:59 > 0:34:04moment this happen, set out the support for pensioners to know their

0:34:04 > 0:34:11pensions were safe and also to go to work, they were being looked after,

0:34:11 > 0:34:15but you are quite right, we have to make sure going forward we are doing

0:34:15 > 0:34:27the right thing.Point of order.On Friday, the Secretary of State for

0:34:27 > 0:34:34Justice and Lord Chancellor came to my constituency and attended a

0:34:34 > 0:34:43meeting in Redbridge Townhall in Ilford. The first I knew about this

0:34:43 > 0:34:47is the website of the Ilford recorder today, where the Secretary

0:34:47 > 0:34:53of State has given an extensive interview talking about policing and

0:34:53 > 0:35:00crime and youth crime and other issues relied -- relating to my

0:35:00 > 0:35:04borough, he did not have the courtesy to inform me and he did not

0:35:04 > 0:35:08inform the leader of the council or anybody else in Redbridge, except a

0:35:08 > 0:35:16few selected councillors that he was coming to my constituency. I have

0:35:16 > 0:35:20informed the member to the answering machine at his House of Commons

0:35:20 > 0:35:24office, I tried five numbers at the department of justice, but all of

0:35:24 > 0:35:28them were unobtainable including the public number given to me by the

0:35:28 > 0:35:32House of Commons library. At least I had the courtesy to inform him I was

0:35:32 > 0:35:37facing this point of order but I seek your advice Mr speaker, given

0:35:37 > 0:35:42that ministers will be coming to constituencies quite actively in the

0:35:42 > 0:35:45coming months, can we have it made clear that they should at least

0:35:45 > 0:35:50inform the members of the constituencies that they are going

0:35:50 > 0:35:59to visit.I'm grateful your advance courtesy, and as the house has

0:35:59 > 0:36:01learned, the honourable gentleman has given as a detailed description

0:36:01 > 0:36:06of the prodigious efforts that he made to contact the Lord Chancellor

0:36:06 > 0:36:08and the sedentary of State for justice, even if they were to no

0:36:08 > 0:36:15avail. I thank him for giving me notice of the point of order, and as

0:36:15 > 0:36:22I have said on many occasions, it is a strong convention albeit not a

0:36:22 > 0:36:26rule that members should give reasonable notice to a member whose

0:36:26 > 0:36:32constituency he or she is intending to visit in a public capacity, of

0:36:32 > 0:36:37the factor that prospective visit, and I regard this as a matter of

0:36:37 > 0:36:44courtesy as much as anything else. I would just say I'm surprised to

0:36:44 > 0:36:47learn of this development because I know the Secretary of State for

0:36:47 > 0:36:50Justice and ordinarily he would be regarded as one of the most

0:36:50 > 0:36:55courteous members of the house. I regard this as a lapsed and it is

0:36:55 > 0:36:59regrettable and I hope that it went happen again. We ought to treat each

0:36:59 > 0:37:03other with courtesy and that does mean giving some advance notice as I

0:37:03 > 0:37:13have said.Point of order.Point of order.Thank you. I seek your

0:37:13 > 0:37:16guidance as to whether you have received notification from the

0:37:16 > 0:37:20Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and whether she will make

0:37:20 > 0:37:25an oral statement of personal independence payments, as you may be

0:37:25 > 0:37:27aware on Friday afternoon the government put out a bit in

0:37:27 > 0:37:35statement announcing they would not appeal the High Court judgment of

0:37:35 > 0:37:422017 -- written statement. In effect reversing the emergency Pip

0:37:42 > 0:37:46regulations they endorsed last gig, these regulations were brought in

0:37:46 > 0:37:54without a vote of this house by negative statutory incident despite

0:37:54 > 0:37:56two urging questions and an emergency debate and widespread

0:37:56 > 0:38:01concern about the impact. I would be grateful for your guidance on how

0:38:01 > 0:38:07members can have the opportunity to question ministers in detail on this

0:38:07 > 0:38:15vitally important policy change which will affect over 150,000

0:38:15 > 0:38:20people, primarily those with mental health conditions.I'm grateful for

0:38:20 > 0:38:25the point of order, and in short I have received no notification from

0:38:25 > 0:38:28the Secretary of State of an intention to make a statement on

0:38:28 > 0:38:33this matter but as the member will no the Secretary of State for Work

0:38:33 > 0:38:36and Pensions is in her place and she's welcome to come to the

0:38:36 > 0:38:40dispatch box and respond this matter if she wishes but she is under no

0:38:40 > 0:38:46obligation to do so. She doesn't wish to do so at this time. What I

0:38:46 > 0:38:51would say, the lady should table questions and see where she gets and

0:38:51 > 0:38:56if she and her colleagues judge that they wish to seek a debate on the

0:38:56 > 0:39:00matter it is open to them to do so, but for now I think she has shared

0:39:00 > 0:39:05her concern and it will have been heard on the Treasury bench.Gapes,

0:39:05 > 0:39:10If there are no further points of order we will proceed to the main

0:39:10 > 0:39:18business. The clerk will proceed too read the orders of the day.

0:39:18 > 0:39:25Financial claims bill second reading.I call the Secretary of

0:39:25 > 0:39:30State for work and pensions Esther McVeigh.Thank you. I beg to move

0:39:30 > 0:39:37the bill now be read a second time. The financial guidance and claims

0:39:37 > 0:40:01bill reforms the current financial guidance

0:40:23 > 0:40:27Ensuring people can access free guidance to help them make more

0:40:27 > 0:40:31effective financial decision and improve their confidence in dealing

0:40:31 > 0:40:35with financial service providers is an important step towards improving

0:40:35 > 0:40:39people's financial capability. In addition, ensuring that people are

0:40:39 > 0:40:44able to access high quality claims management services speaks to the

0:40:44 > 0:40:49Government's commitment to ensuring that action is taken when markets

0:40:49 > 0:40:53work against consumer interests. The provision in part one of the bill

0:40:53 > 0:41:00followed three consultations on the provision of pensions and guidance

0:41:00 > 0:41:06on debt management. In particular, the consultations examined the

0:41:06 > 0:41:11demand for these services, how they should be structured and how to make

0:41:11 > 0:41:16the provision more effective for consumers. The consultation revealed

0:41:16 > 0:41:21a broad consensus for a single body. As a result, this bill will bring

0:41:21 > 0:41:26together the important work done by the money advice service, the

0:41:26 > 0:41:33Pensions Advisory Service, and pension-wise. These measures have

0:41:33 > 0:41:37received support from industry, stake holders and from charities and

0:41:37 > 0:41:41from consumer groups. I will give way.Can I thank the Secretary of

0:41:41 > 0:41:46State for giving way. It is vital that we all work across the parties

0:41:46 > 0:41:52on this issue of financial guidance. Can I encourage her to put in a duty

0:41:52 > 0:41:56to promote financial resilience on this new financial guidance body,

0:41:56 > 0:42:01because each year there are two million people who have unforeseen

0:42:01 > 0:42:06sickness absence, they can't cope, their incomes fall and eight out of

0:42:06 > 0:42:12ten people have little if no savings and I think proactively having a

0:42:12 > 0:42:15body to promote that financial resilience would be a real step

0:42:15 > 0:42:23forward.I want to thank the member. What he raises an important point

0:42:23 > 0:42:28and once this body is set up, it will be able to see what is needed

0:42:28 > 0:42:33out in the public arena and then shape and craft what it does going

0:42:33 > 0:42:39forward. So that is important. Obviously, debt advice for

0:42:39 > 0:42:42vulnerable people is key. They need to be able to sort of plan a path

0:42:42 > 0:42:48for their future. So the member raises a very good point. I will

0:42:48 > 0:43:00indeed.On that note, household debt is now at 1.9 trillion, which

0:43:00 > 0:43:03highlights how important it is to give people knowledge on

0:43:03 > 0:43:06understanding their finances I would like to welcome the introduction of

0:43:06 > 0:43:11this bill and could she give us assurances it will help constituents

0:43:11 > 0:43:18like mine and you go through a plethora of bodies to get advice, it

0:43:18 > 0:43:24will help them make decisions that may prevent them getting into debt.

0:43:24 > 0:43:28My right honourable friend raises a good point about how to help those

0:43:28 > 0:43:33who are most vulnerable get out of debt. Debts are at high levels.

0:43:33 > 0:43:38Lower than they were in the first quarter after 2010. The latest

0:43:38 > 0:43:44figures in 2017 it had gone down. However, they're still high and we

0:43:44 > 0:43:49need to help people to understand their finances. That really is key.

0:43:49 > 0:43:53Understand what is going out, what is coming in and how to get their

0:43:53 > 0:44:00life on a firmer footing so they can go forward with confidence. If I

0:44:00 > 0:44:07progress a bit further and I will take interventions. Old mutual

0:44:07 > 0:44:11wealth has noted that consolidating the money advice service, the

0:44:11 > 0:44:15pension advice service and pension-wise into a single body

0:44:15 > 0:44:24presents an opportunity to improve the quality and reach of

0:44:24 > 0:44:27government-led primary industry-funded services to

0:44:27 > 0:44:30encourage consumer engagement. They will ensure that people have access

0:44:30 > 0:44:34to the information needed to make the necessary and effective

0:44:34 > 0:44:39financial decisions that we all have to make throughout our lives. This

0:44:39 > 0:44:43information, guidance and in respect of debt, advice will not only be

0:44:43 > 0:44:47independent and impartial, but free at the point of use. Making it

0:44:47 > 0:44:52accessible to all those who need it. By merging these services into a

0:44:52 > 0:44:57single body, we will remove duplication of services increase the

0:44:57 > 0:45:01efficiency of the service and ensure those who require information,

0:45:01 > 0:45:06guidance and advice know where to find it. A single body also gives us

0:45:06 > 0:45:12the opportunity to provide a more seamless customer journey doing the

0:45:12 > 0:45:16joining up and providing a hook back into the customer for follow up

0:45:16 > 0:45:20support. The Government is concerned about low levels of financial

0:45:20 > 0:45:27capability in the UK and we recognise not enough people know

0:45:27 > 0:45:33thousand manage their money. So we are taking decisive action. I will

0:45:33 > 0:45:39give way.Aim grateful to the Secretary of State. As she seems to

0:45:39 > 0:45:43be acknowledging the evidence suggests that too many people don't

0:45:43 > 0:45:47have sufficient knowledge to make the best choices about their

0:45:47 > 0:45:55pensions. On that basis, does she adegree that gree it is important

0:45:55 > 0:46:03the new body concentrates on try provide as much face to face support

0:46:03 > 0:46:08and does not rely on web-sites?The honourable gentleman raises a very

0:46:08 > 0:46:11guide point. Different people glean information through different

0:46:11 > 0:46:16channels. So a web-site works for some. Telephone works for others and

0:46:16 > 0:46:22there will be a need for face to face. At the moment that is being

0:46:22 > 0:46:25helped but the Citizen's Advice bureau. He is right in saying face

0:46:25 > 0:46:31to face is important too. OK I will give way and then proceed further

0:46:31 > 0:46:35and then I will come back.I thank the honourable lady for giving way.

0:46:35 > 0:46:39One of thing big problems with information for ordinary people is

0:46:39 > 0:46:44it is complex. Can she give us an assurance that any information or

0:46:44 > 0:46:50advice that is given is in simple language that people can understand.

0:46:50 > 0:46:55That is the difficulty - a lot of forms they don't understand.Again

0:46:55 > 0:47:00another valid point there. It has got to be impartial, free and it has

0:47:00 > 0:47:06to be in language that people understand. And sometimes people

0:47:06 > 0:47:13might not feel confident to say they don't understand the terminology,

0:47:13 > 0:47:16because they think there is a presumed knowledge that there might

0:47:16 > 0:47:23not be. The new body will have a number of statutory objectives to

0:47:23 > 0:47:28improve the ability of people too make informed decisions, to support

0:47:28 > 0:47:33the provision of information, money and pensions guidance and debt

0:47:33 > 0:47:39services to. Ensure that information guidance and debt advice is clear,

0:47:39 > 0:47:43cost effective and not dupe Kated elsewhere. To ensure that

0:47:43 > 0:47:48information and advice is available to those most in need, particularly

0:47:48 > 0:47:51people in vulnerable circumstances and to work closely with the

0:47:51 > 0:47:59devolved authorities. The body will... I will.I am grateful.

0:47:59 > 0:48:03Further to the question asked by the honourable lady on her own side

0:48:03 > 0:48:07about the rise in household debt, will she accept there is a

0:48:07 > 0:48:12particular problem around household debt generated by high cost, high

0:48:12 > 0:48:18credit cost lenders. Such as Bright House. Under clause 10 of the bill,

0:48:18 > 0:48:24the Financial Conduct Authority can levy to cover the costs of the new

0:48:24 > 0:48:29single finance guidance body. Can she reassure me that high cost

0:48:29 > 0:48:34credit companies will be covered by such a levy and tell the House what

0:48:34 > 0:48:39this body will do to encourage the take up and awareness of the

0:48:39 > 0:48:45products offered by credit unions, a far lower cost form of debt

0:48:45 > 0:48:54provision.First, debt isn't rising, it has actually fallen, however it

0:48:54 > 0:49:03is still high. What this body will do is give guidance and where needed

0:49:03 > 0:49:09advice so people know what... What... Loans or what credit they

0:49:09 > 0:49:14are taking out and fundamentally what that means to them paying it

0:49:14 > 0:49:22back. How the body goes forward really again here today we are

0:49:22 > 0:49:25putting in the legislative framework so it exists and there are things

0:49:25 > 0:49:29that it needs to do. But it will determine what are the key thins it

0:49:29 > 0:49:34wants to pursue with and I'm convinced those people going forward

0:49:34 > 0:49:39will listen to the people like the member and the advice he is putting

0:49:39 > 0:49:47forward. So the body will... I will proceed a bit further. The body will

0:49:47 > 0:49:51also provide advice on a breathing space scheme, providing support to

0:49:51 > 0:49:55the Government's policy development. The scheme will allow an individual

0:49:55 > 0:50:00in problem debt to apply for a period of protection from further

0:50:00 > 0:50:04fees, charges and endorsement action. Alongside establishing a

0:50:04 > 0:50:09statutory debt management plan. One of the functions of the new body

0:50:09 > 0:50:16will be to support over indebted consumers, ensuring high quality

0:50:16 > 0:50:25debt advice that is free. Last year, money advice service spent £49

0:50:25 > 0:50:30million to fund 440,000 debt advice sessions. We want the new body to

0:50:30 > 0:50:34build on that good work. I will give way.I'm very grateful to the

0:50:34 > 0:50:42minister. Further to the point on financial resilience, is the

0:50:42 > 0:50:47Secretary of State aware that household debt as a proportion of

0:50:47 > 0:50:55income rose under the last government... From 93% to a peak of

0:50:55 > 0:50:59157% in 2008. Doesn't this demonstrate these measures are

0:50:59 > 0:51:02essential to help people make sensible choices about their

0:51:02 > 0:51:09finances?The honourable gentleman makes a very good point, that

0:51:09 > 0:51:14household debt did rocket under the previous Labour government and we

0:51:14 > 0:51:19are now making sure it comes down. It is still too high. But what I

0:51:19 > 0:51:23particularly appreciate with this bill it does have cross-party

0:51:23 > 0:51:28support, because we all know that we need to help people who are in debt.

0:51:28 > 0:51:33Can I proceed further and I think I'm... Taking as many interventions

0:51:33 > 0:51:40as possible. Will just proceed further. As a result of a range of

0:51:40 > 0:51:47reforms such as automatic enrolment which has increased the number of

0:51:47 > 0:51:52people saving into a pension and allow anyone that take their whole

0:51:52 > 0:51:57pension as a lump sum, the number of people looking for high quality

0:51:57 > 0:52:01impartial financial guide answer continues to rise. We look forward

0:52:01 > 0:52:14to the -- -guidance continues to rise.Thank you for giving way. I

0:52:14 > 0:52:19would like to return to the question of the breathing space and ask

0:52:19 > 0:52:22whether the minister has considered it will apply to public sector debts

0:52:22 > 0:52:28as well as the private sector debt. Many people find that they in fact

0:52:28 > 0:52:36are pursued more vigorously by those creditors.Whilst we are looking at

0:52:36 > 0:52:40this respite, we are doing a call for evidence to see how best to

0:52:40 > 0:52:44proceed with that and that will be one of the points no doubt that that

0:52:44 > 0:52:49will be raised in that. I will now discuss the second part of this

0:52:49 > 0:52:55bill. Which makes provision to strengthen... If we can... If I can

0:52:55 > 0:52:59just proceed a little bit further and then I will take interventions.

0:52:59 > 0:53:06Otherwise I will never get get through this and we need to. I will

0:53:06 > 0:53:10now discuss the second part of the bill which makes provision to

0:53:10 > 0:53:18strengthen the regulation of claims management companies. There is

0:53:18 > 0:53:23evidence of malpractice in the form of disproportionate fees, nuisance

0:53:23 > 0:53:29calls and the encouragement of fraudulent claims. Following a

0:53:29 > 0:53:34review of claims management regulation led by Carol Brady, the

0:53:34 > 0:53:37Government announced its commitment to clamping down on malpractice in

0:53:37 > 0:53:43this sector. Part two of the bill delivers this commit commitment in

0:53:43 > 0:53:49two ways. To transfer responsibility if from the claims management

0:53:49 > 0:53:54regulation unit which is based in the Ministry of Justice to the

0:53:54 > 0:53:57Financial Conduct Authority. Secondly by introducing new measures

0:53:57 > 0:54:06to ensure that consumers are protected from excessive fees. This

0:54:06 > 0:54:10includes a duty to make rules restricting fees charged for

0:54:10 > 0:54:16services in relation to financial services such as PPI claim and the

0:54:16 > 0:54:21power of the FCA to introduce caps in other claims sectors should need,

0:54:21 > 0:54:28should it need to arise.

0:54:28 > 0:54:36Thank you very much. Can I go back to the first part of the bill, in

0:54:36 > 0:54:41terms of the devolved functions and debt advice, how would baby funded?

0:54:41 > 0:54:49Would it be a percentage share? -- how would they be funded. Would it

0:54:49 > 0:54:54be done on a Welsh need? The worst government will send a bill to the

0:54:54 > 0:55:08Treasury?Thank you very much.-- the Welsh government forI also want

0:55:08 > 0:55:13to welcome the deputy to the chair. What is being spent and how it is

0:55:13 > 0:55:19being spent is something down to the new body being formulated. However,

0:55:19 > 0:55:25it will be done, by which it will be government grants and then money

0:55:25 > 0:55:31taken back from those, the financial bodies who are paying into it, but

0:55:31 > 0:55:38clearly going forward, where there is most need is where most money

0:55:38 > 0:55:45will be going and that is the way it will be viewed.I welcome the second

0:55:45 > 0:55:52part of the bill, it improves productions. Are you aware that the

0:55:52 > 0:55:54justice committee looked at this issue in relation to changes to the

0:55:54 > 0:55:59small claims limit to personal interest, which you bear in mind the

0:55:59 > 0:56:06very strong evidence that suggests because the interest likely in the

0:56:06 > 0:56:12small claims limit, impersonal injuries cases, the cat in relation

0:56:12 > 0:56:16to payment protection insurance should also be extended to personal

0:56:16 > 0:56:21injuries cases to extend consumer protection and also consider a fit

0:56:21 > 0:56:29and proper person's test in relation to this area?You always provide

0:56:29 > 0:56:34wise words and I can assure you that those matters will be taken going

0:56:34 > 0:56:42forward. Mr speaker, Deputy Speaker, this is not to say that claims

0:56:42 > 0:56:45management companies should be regulated out of existence and the

0:56:45 > 0:56:48government believes these firms provide a valuable service to

0:56:48 > 0:56:51consumers who may be less likely not able to bring claims themselves and

0:56:51 > 0:56:59a well functioning CMC market can also benefit the public interest by

0:56:59 > 0:57:03acting as a check and balance on business conduct. The measures aim

0:57:03 > 0:57:06to strengthen claims management regulation in the round in order to

0:57:06 > 0:57:11enhance consumer protection and professionalism in the sector, and

0:57:11 > 0:57:15the bill also makes sure that those who use claims management services

0:57:15 > 0:57:20to make claims in relation to PPI are protected in the interim period

0:57:20 > 0:57:26before the FCA exercises its duty to introduce a fee cap and it does this

0:57:26 > 0:57:30to the provision of an interim fee cap on PPI claims management

0:57:30 > 0:57:35services during the period between ascent and implementation of the FCA

0:57:35 > 0:57:40cap, and the bill will cap these fees at 20% of the final

0:57:40 > 0:57:46compensation amount. The ABI welcomed the claims regulation

0:57:46 > 0:57:49measurement stating that confirmation of tougher regulation

0:57:49 > 0:57:54cannot come soon enough for the people who are plagued by

0:57:54 > 0:58:00unsolicited calls and text messages, I will give way.One thing the bill

0:58:00 > 0:58:04was silent on until amended by the opposition in the other place was

0:58:04 > 0:58:10cold calling, the opposition had been pressing since the last bill

0:58:10 > 0:58:16seven years ago to have cold calling outlawed and wondering why the

0:58:16 > 0:58:19minister isn't going to say anything about that or will she agree there

0:58:19 > 0:58:24is no defence for something which is a blight on almost everyone's lives

0:58:24 > 0:58:31in this country.There will be a ban on pension cold calling and then it

0:58:31 > 0:58:38is working through the detail of how that works best for consumers at

0:58:38 > 0:58:47home for the if I can continue a bit further and then I will take a

0:58:47 > 0:58:53question. I will reflect on the question in the Lords, there was a

0:58:53 > 0:58:58bottle support for the measures contained in the bill, and they

0:58:58 > 0:59:05tried to include a government manifesto commitment. Some

0:59:05 > 0:59:07amendments made explicit on the face of the bill what was always the

0:59:07 > 0:59:12implicit in policy, these include making clear that the single

0:59:12 > 0:59:15financial guidance body services are free at the point of use and making

0:59:15 > 0:59:21sure that the information advice and guidance is in partial. Other

0:59:21 > 0:59:24changes were more substantial but nonetheless welcome and these range

0:59:24 > 0:59:29from the inclusion of a clause which will make it a criminal offence to

0:59:29 > 0:59:33impersonate the body, safeguarding clauses for its wind-up and

0:59:33 > 0:59:37requirement for the FCA to create rules on signposting individuals to

0:59:37 > 0:59:41the body, and further additions include the interim fee cap for PPI

0:59:41 > 0:59:47claimants which would make sure the charge is fair and proportionate

0:59:47 > 0:59:54relating to financial services. And making provision for the

0:59:54 > 0:59:58establishment of a debt respite scheme which I would expand upon

0:59:58 > 1:00:06shortly. Did the honourable member...Thank you for allowing me

1:00:06 > 1:00:14to raise a point. I wondered if she had my concern about the intention

1:00:14 > 1:00:19of UK Government to adopt the provisions in my ten minute rule

1:00:19 > 1:00:26built on unsolicited communications marketing for the government has had

1:00:26 > 1:00:30occasion is to adopt this legislation but the deadline passed

1:00:30 > 1:00:36for top I wonder if the Secretary of State is concerned that this will be

1:00:36 > 1:00:40confined to protecting consumers regarding pensions but not right

1:00:40 > 1:00:46across the marketplace in a host of areas.We are looking at pensions

1:00:46 > 1:00:56today but there are other rules and regulations and laws in place to

1:00:56 > 1:01:00protect people from unsolicited and unwanted cold calls and at the

1:01:00 > 1:01:06moment the Digital culture is looking at how to strengthen those.

1:01:06 > 1:01:14I would now like to address some of these issues... I will briefly give

1:01:14 > 1:01:19way to the honourable lady first and then I will continue with the second

1:01:19 > 1:01:25reading.Thank you very much. I listened very closely to what you

1:01:25 > 1:01:31said about breathing space which is a very welcome period to help

1:01:31 > 1:01:34individuals and you mentioned individuals, sort out their debts

1:01:34 > 1:01:39without getting into more problems, could you confirm that that covers

1:01:39 > 1:01:42households and families in particular to help the whole family

1:01:42 > 1:01:51and not just the individual?When people call up seeking advice and

1:01:51 > 1:01:54support, it could be for them, it could be for their household, they

1:01:54 > 1:01:59might need respite for all of them, and they will be looking in therapy

1:01:59 > 1:02:03not just at themselves but at their family in its entirety -- looking in

1:02:03 > 1:02:10variability.I'm grateful to you and may I welcome her to her position as

1:02:10 > 1:02:16well. I was involved in trying to stamp down on cold calling as the

1:02:16 > 1:02:21former minister telecoms and it may not be this Richard Bland cold

1:02:21 > 1:02:33calling entirely but on -- it may not be necessary to ban cold calling

1:02:33 > 1:02:36entirely but I hope the Secretary of State will comment on the need to

1:02:36 > 1:02:39make it expressive that the new regulator mask consult with Ofcom on

1:02:39 > 1:02:47some of these issues -- must consult for the women introduce what are

1:02:47 > 1:02:53consumer friendly measures, -- we must remember when we introduce what

1:02:53 > 1:02:58are consumer friendly measures, it might mean that some of the less

1:02:58 > 1:03:03scribblers up their game when it comes to cold calling. -- scrupulous

1:03:04 > 1:03:09no one knows more about thissubject than him and I'm glad this is on the

1:03:09 > 1:03:12record and these other things we need to consult on to make sure that

1:03:12 > 1:03:17we get the new regulation right. I will give way and then I will

1:03:17 > 1:03:24proceed.Thank you. On the question of cold calling raised by my right

1:03:24 > 1:03:27honourable friend, I noticed the cold calling provisions appear in

1:03:27 > 1:03:33part one of the bill in clause four and I was wondering if the Secretary

1:03:33 > 1:03:38of State could verify whether those powers allowing cold calling to be

1:03:38 > 1:03:43prohibited apply just in relation to financial guidance or also in

1:03:43 > 1:03:47relation to claims management companies, the topic of the second

1:03:47 > 1:03:55part of the bill, and I'm hoping the answer is yes.Yes, that will be

1:03:55 > 1:03:59what we are doing, that will be our intention, but again these are the

1:03:59 > 1:04:02final points it have to be worked out by the body as it comes forward

1:04:02 > 1:04:06in what it intends to do to work responsibly on behalf of the

1:04:06 > 1:04:10citizens of the UK. I look like to address some of the issues that I

1:04:10 > 1:04:14know will be of interest to honourable members, the government

1:04:14 > 1:04:18has been clear that we will not stand for unlawful persistent cold

1:04:18 > 1:04:22calling made by companies in the claims management sector and cold

1:04:22 > 1:04:29calling is already illegal under certain circumstances, and we have

1:04:29 > 1:04:31forced companies to display their numbers when they call, make it

1:04:31 > 1:04:35easier to take action against those involved in making the cause and

1:04:35 > 1:04:38strengthened the information Commissioner 's office powers to

1:04:38 > 1:04:46impose fines. A number of companies, though, continue to act disreputable

1:04:46 > 1:04:49the so it is only right that the government take steps to further

1:04:49 > 1:04:53regulate the sector. That is why the government has committed in the

1:04:53 > 1:04:57other place to introduce measures to tackle these issues and the

1:04:57 > 1:05:00Department for digital culture media and sport is working through the

1:05:00 > 1:05:05details of amendment to prohibit CMCs for making light unsolicited

1:05:05 > 1:05:11calls unless the receiver has given prior consent. This step combined

1:05:11 > 1:05:13with previous actions in this area should act as a warning to those

1:05:13 > 1:05:19acting unlawfully, that they... That we will not rest until this problem

1:05:19 > 1:05:25has truly been eradicated. If I can continue for a bit longer and then

1:05:25 > 1:05:30take some more interventions. The government welcomes the findings of

1:05:30 > 1:05:33the work and pensions select committee report which explores the

1:05:33 > 1:05:38issues of how to protect pensions from scammers and we remain

1:05:38 > 1:05:43committed to protecting savers from pension scams and we have already

1:05:43 > 1:05:46announced that we are banning pensions cold calling, tightening

1:05:46 > 1:05:51HMRC's rule to stop pension scammers and fraudulent schemes and

1:05:51 > 1:05:55preventing the transfer of money from occupational pension schemes

1:05:55 > 1:05:58into fortunate ones, and the government is reviewing the

1:05:58 > 1:06:04alternative proposals for banning cold calling within the bill, we

1:06:04 > 1:06:09have also listened to the concerns are rounding the risks of not

1:06:09 > 1:06:12receiving sufficient guidance and advice prior to taking advantage of

1:06:12 > 1:06:18the pensions freedoms and we are considering the amendment's

1:06:18 > 1:06:21recommended to make sure that members of the public are aware of

1:06:21 > 1:06:25the importance of receiving guidance. Honourable members will

1:06:25 > 1:06:32also be interested in the edition of the debt respite scheme which

1:06:32 > 1:06:36includes a breathing space period and a debt repayment plan, and we

1:06:36 > 1:06:39understand the valuable additional support that the scheme could have

1:06:39 > 1:06:43for thousands of vulnerable individuals and we want to implement

1:06:43 > 1:06:46a breathing space scheme as quickly as possible, the government is

1:06:46 > 1:06:51pressing on with policy development and we have already set out a firm

1:06:51 > 1:06:54timetable for consultation and are continuing to work closely with a

1:06:54 > 1:06:58wide range of stakeholders. The call for evidence on breathing space was

1:06:58 > 1:07:03published in October and it has now closed, and after responding to the

1:07:03 > 1:07:06call for evidence, we will consult on a single policy proposal. The

1:07:06 > 1:07:12bill gives an and enabling power to establish the scheme after receiving

1:07:12 > 1:07:19the advice from the financial guidance body. It is important that

1:07:19 > 1:07:22we take the time to get this right, the scheme will only achieve its

1:07:22 > 1:07:27intended benefits for indebted individuals if it is properly

1:07:27 > 1:07:30designed, and I look forward to the government working with honourable

1:07:30 > 1:07:34man was constructively so we can enable the scheme to benefit

1:07:34 > 1:07:38vulnerable people and families as quickly as possible.I thank you

1:07:38 > 1:07:46forgiving way. -- for giving way for

1:07:48 > 1:07:53cold calling is more than just a nuisance for some vulnerable people,

1:07:53 > 1:07:56and some of my constituents have said they had signed up to this but

1:07:56 > 1:08:00they are still bombarded by these parasites and one person with

1:08:00 > 1:08:10dementia gets several calls a day full -- and be any way to stop this

1:08:10 > 1:08:15practice is to hand out punitive fines. -- the only way. Will Maher

1:08:15 > 1:08:22honourable friend required the regulator to clamp down on this? --

1:08:22 > 1:08:27my honourable friend.A very important point, there are many

1:08:27 > 1:08:34constituencies I'm sure who could bring similar cases forward, the

1:08:34 > 1:08:37maximum penalty will remain the same but that is up to half £1 million,

1:08:37 > 1:08:44we have got to make sure that people don't abuse the system and that is

1:08:44 > 1:08:49why especially within this bill we are looking at ways to ban pension

1:08:49 > 1:08:58cold calling. I will indeed and that will be my last one.

1:08:58 > 1:09:06I sense puzzlement on both sides that the government is pulling its

1:09:06 > 1:09:09punches on cold calling. There is consensus that this should be

1:09:09 > 1:09:16banned. That includes claimant organisations like the Association

1:09:16 > 1:09:21of Personal Injury Lawyers, why won't the government just ban cold

1:09:21 > 1:09:25calls?We have pulled that forward, but that will be for this bill and

1:09:25 > 1:09:33there will be a ban. It is working out how that is done. But that is

1:09:33 > 1:09:38the intention. Members will be aware that the DWP took on responsibility

1:09:38 > 1:09:42from Treasury in October to work with the regulators, industry and

1:09:42 > 1:09:46others to create a pensions dashboard. This is a digital

1:09:46 > 1:09:54interface to I allow individuals to see all their pensions information

1:09:54 > 1:10:00in one place. We are conducting a feasibility study to explore the key

1:10:00 > 1:10:04issues and determine a path towards this implementation and expect to be

1:10:04 > 1:10:09answerable to report in March. The Government believes the needs of the

1:10:09 > 1:10:15consumer must be at the heart of the dashboard's design. We will ensure

1:10:15 > 1:10:19that people's interests are properly safeguarded and their information

1:10:19 > 1:10:29protected. As part of the study we are considering what role the single

1:10:29 > 1:10:33financial body may have. I firmly believe that this bill is useful and

1:10:33 > 1:10:40fair. One that has the individual at its heart. Its goal is to make sure

1:10:40 > 1:10:45that people are easily able to access free and impartial financial

1:10:45 > 1:10:49guidance to help them make more effective financial decisions.

1:10:49 > 1:10:55Having access to guidance will boost their confidence and is a crucial

1:10:55 > 1:10:59step towards improving their financial capability. The bill sends

1:10:59 > 1:11:05a clear message to the CMCs by transferring regulatory

1:11:05 > 1:11:11responsibility to the FSA, providing a stronger framework to ensure

1:11:11 > 1:11:18individuals are accountable for the actis of their businesses and

1:11:18 > 1:11:21protecting the consumers from excessive fees. This lies at the

1:11:21 > 1:11:27heart of Conservative fros philosophy and understanding how you

1:11:27 > 1:11:30can a stronger individual by understanding your finances and not

1:11:30 > 1:11:35allowing yourself where possible to get into debt. It is about

1:11:35 > 1:11:38supporting the individual and the family and the community and they

1:11:38 > 1:11:42can best do that by understanding their own finances. I look forward

1:11:42 > 1:11:48to having a positive and constructive dialogue in this house.

1:11:48 > 1:11:53The question is the bill be read a second time. Debbie Abrahams.Thank

1:11:53 > 1:12:00you. Can I just say how lovely it is to see you in your place and extend

1:12:00 > 1:12:07my good wishes to you. It was very re-Miz of me as well not -- remiss

1:12:07 > 1:12:11not to welcome the honourable lady to her place when we had urgent

1:12:11 > 1:12:16question and I do congratulate her and look forward to working with

1:12:16 > 1:12:24her. Possibly not in the same tone, I think this is going to be a

1:12:24 > 1:12:29constructive debate. There is a lot in the work and pensions portfolio

1:12:29 > 1:12:33for us to debate. In addition thank you for outlying the content of

1:12:33 > 1:12:37guidance and claims bill and take the opportunity to thank members

1:12:37 > 1:12:41from the other place as well who have spent many months scrutinising

1:12:41 > 1:12:49this bill. Although there have been occasions made already, concessions

1:12:49 > 1:12:52already, we believe that there are still several more that need to be

1:12:52 > 1:12:58made. However, we recognise the importance of the stated aims of the

1:12:58 > 1:13:03bill, principally to increase the levels of financial capacity, reduce

1:13:03 > 1:13:08the level of problem debt and improve understanding of pensions.

1:13:08 > 1:13:16As such we won't be opposing this bill. As has been explained and will

1:13:16 > 1:13:24rush through this, the bill introduces a new entity to provide

1:13:24 > 1:13:35guidance. This will replace three organisations. The new single

1:13:35 > 1:13:39financial guidance body will have responsibility for us to treat

1:13:39 > 1:13:44strategic function to support the development of a national strategy.

1:13:44 > 1:13:49To ensure the bill's aims are met, we want the new body to be a visible

1:13:49 > 1:13:55and properly resourced organisation. So that it be identify and support

1:13:55 > 1:13:59the people who need help. The second part introduces a tougher and

1:13:59 > 1:14:02welcome regulation regime to... Tackle conduct. Can I just finish

1:14:02 > 1:14:07this point? To tackle conduct issues in the claims management market

1:14:07 > 1:14:17which we can also support.I am grateful. Is not one of the problems

1:14:17 > 1:14:23that potentially risks inhibiting the success of the new single

1:14:23 > 1:14:29finance guidance body the that we do not know where the highest levels of

1:14:29 > 1:14:34problem debt are as yet. And might it not be sensible to take the

1:14:34 > 1:14:38opportunity at committee or report stage to look at the example of an

1:14:38 > 1:14:43American piece of legislation, the community reinvestment act which

1:14:43 > 1:14:48requires all lenders to publish anonised details of debts that have

1:14:48 > 1:14:53been taken out with them. So that as a result community organisations,

1:14:53 > 1:15:00debt advice bodies, know where to target their expertise to help.I

1:15:00 > 1:15:06think my honourable friend makes a valuable point. I'm not Fram with

1:15:06 > 1:15:09that particular piece of American legation. But will look at that and

1:15:09 > 1:15:15see what we can do in terms of placing amendments before the

1:15:15 > 1:15:20committee stage. The Financial Conduct Authority will regulate

1:15:20 > 1:15:25company activity as a regulated activity, taking over responsibility

1:15:25 > 1:15:32pr the Ministry of Justice. This is a high level framework bill. We

1:15:32 > 1:15:38particularly welcome the Government's assurances that the SF

1:15:38 > 1:15:43GB will work with the Financial Conduct Authority and the Treasury

1:15:43 > 1:15:49on issues regarding financial inclusion. However, give than the

1:15:49 > 1:15:53work and pensions Select Committee raised concerns about the inadequacy

1:15:53 > 1:15:58of Government measures to protect pension savers nearly three years

1:15:58 > 1:16:01ago, and the difficulties we have seen arising from that, I'm bound to

1:16:01 > 1:16:07ask why it has taken so long to recognise these failings. I'm also

1:16:07 > 1:16:11concerned that there are no specifics on delivery channels,

1:16:11 > 1:16:15given the large number of people who are currently failing to access

1:16:15 > 1:16:25services. It is vital that the SF GB can has the resources to make it

1:16:25 > 1:16:32available. Digital... Is not a mantra we want to hear. Given the

1:16:32 > 1:16:37complex needs and limited resources of people who most need its

1:16:37 > 1:16:43services. I will give way.The experience of the transferring of

1:16:43 > 1:16:49the British Steel pension scheme into a new scheme is something that

1:16:49 > 1:16:54was announced in early 2017 and was very public. When it all blew up and

1:16:54 > 1:17:04we saw it becoming fertile territory for unscrupulous pension advise ors,

1:17:04 > 1:17:09the FSA seemed to be surprised. Why didn't they see it coming and what

1:17:09 > 1:17:15should be done to improve the early warning system, so the regulators

1:17:15 > 1:17:20can see these things coming and be more proactive, because prevention

1:17:20 > 1:17:23is better than cure.My honourable friend makes a valuable points and

1:17:23 > 1:17:28I'm going to come on later exactly to that point, because this is what

1:17:28 > 1:17:36we are seeing. We have seen in BSPS and now in Carillion the pension

1:17:36 > 1:17:44savers there. Last year's figures from the FCA make shocking reading

1:17:44 > 1:17:49of those planning to retire only 10%, 10% had used the Pensions

1:17:49 > 1:17:55Advisory Service and only 7% had used pension-wise. The new SF GB

1:17:55 > 1:18:01will have to do better. Eight million people are over indebted

1:18:01 > 1:18:06according to a report in March last year. Fewer than one in five

1:18:06 > 1:18:11currently seeks advice. Many of these people are the most

1:18:11 > 1:18:19vulnerable. Half the clients seen by projects have had a diagnosed mental

1:18:19 > 1:18:23health condition. It is vital these people continue to be supported

1:18:23 > 1:18:30during the transition period and that SF GB identifies strategies to

1:18:30 > 1:18:36reach people who don't use services now. They talk about long-term

1:18:36 > 1:18:38savings once it has been established. It is difficult to see

1:18:38 > 1:18:45how that will happen if the new body is to fulfil all its objectives,

1:18:45 > 1:18:53particularly to en sure that advice is available to those who most

1:18:53 > 1:18:59needed. Has the Government thought about what resources the SF GB will

1:18:59 > 1:19:03require. Has the minister considered what arrangements will be put in

1:19:03 > 1:19:07place to ensure that people can continue to access existing services

1:19:07 > 1:19:14during the transition period? The five areas that SF GB is expected to

1:19:14 > 1:19:20concentrate on are provision of debt advice, information and guidance

1:19:20 > 1:19:25relating to pensions, accessing DC pots and retirement planning. We

1:19:25 > 1:19:29welcome the Government's decision at the urging of our colleagues in the

1:19:29 > 1:19:35other place to make it explicit that this will be impartial information

1:19:35 > 1:19:43and continue to be provided free to members of public. The SF GB will

1:19:43 > 1:19:49also help consumers avoid fraud and scam and give information on wider

1:19:49 > 1:19:56money matter and co-ordinate efforts to improve financial capability as

1:19:56 > 1:19:59long as programme for children and young people. It has a strategic

1:19:59 > 1:20:04function to support and co-ordinate a national strategy, specially given

1:20:04 > 1:20:09the appointment of the minister of financial inclusion, this needs to

1:20:09 > 1:20:12be strengthen to a develop and deliver function. We welcome the

1:20:12 > 1:20:16focus on the provision of financial education for children and young

1:20:16 > 1:20:21people, but we think the Government should be bolder as recommended by

1:20:21 > 1:20:27the House of Lords committee. The new body will have to cope with

1:20:27 > 1:20:31rising prices and a fall in real incomes and saving levels that have

1:20:31 > 1:20:38crashed. Evidence provided to the Lord refer to fears expressed about

1:20:38 > 1:20:43the rising in queries covers rent arrear, energy and water and

1:20:43 > 1:20:47telephone bills and Council Tax. And then there is the impact of

1:20:47 > 1:20:53universal credit. As I have mentioned on numerous occasions, we

1:20:53 > 1:20:57support the aims to simplify the benefit system and make transitions

1:20:57 > 1:21:03into work easier and reduce child poverty. However, the Citizen's

1:21:03 > 1:21:11Advice report showed that some aspects of UC risk causing or

1:21:11 > 1:21:18exacerbating problems. Clients are more likely to have debt problems, a

1:21:18 > 1:21:21quarter of the people they helped needed help with debt and are

1:21:21 > 1:21:27struggling to pay their debts. More than two in five clients in UC have

1:21:27 > 1:21:35no spare income to pay creditors. Sit Citizen's Advice makes

1:21:35 > 1:21:47recommendations that are pertinent. Including more funding for debt

1:21:47 > 1:21:54advice. They want the FCA to monitor the role of the UC. And the role of

1:21:54 > 1:21:59it. Has the minister considered the impact of UC on personal debt and

1:21:59 > 1:22:06the implications this has for the resourcing of the new FS GB. Taking

1:22:06 > 1:22:11up recommendations from Citizen's Advice would achieve some of the

1:22:11 > 1:22:14problems, but the Government must stop the roll out of this programme

1:22:14 > 1:22:22and reverse the cuts which makes it is failing to make work pay. The

1:22:22 > 1:22:30SFGP will have to cope with a complex pension sector. More and

1:22:30 > 1:22:32people are within the scope of occupational pensions. The other

1:22:32 > 1:22:38change has been the introduction of pension freedoms. We welcome the

1:22:38 > 1:22:44Government's commitment to the delivery of the pensions dashboard,

1:22:44 > 1:22:49given the issues pension scheme members are facing, including

1:22:49 > 1:22:55British Steel and Carillion, I want the Government tackle the abuse of

1:22:55 > 1:22:59scammers who have been targeting BSPS and Carillion pension members

1:22:59 > 1:23:08and which will say more on this later. I will do.I wonder if she

1:23:08 > 1:23:12would agree it would be useful to have a connection between the new

1:23:12 > 1:23:18body and the financial conduct body. I regret we are move away from a

1:23:18 > 1:23:22Treasury involvement she may know some of the products that people

1:23:22 > 1:23:29investing in after their pensions freedoms are from assets managers

1:23:29 > 1:23:37known as prips, these products related to investment or insurance.

1:23:37 > 1:23:43New regulations came out, but there could be a new mis-selling scandal

1:23:43 > 1:23:48as they have wild predictions about the amounts that could be earned.

1:23:48 > 1:24:01Does she gree the guidance body should deal with this.

1:24:01 > 1:24:05You have made a key point the man things are slipping through the net,

1:24:05 > 1:24:08and it needs to be tightened up and this is something we need to explore

1:24:08 > 1:24:16at the committee stage. As it stands they will provide advice on personal

1:24:16 > 1:24:19finances and debts only and not business finances and debts, the

1:24:19 > 1:24:25money advice trust which has had more than 38,000 people last year

1:24:25 > 1:24:27says the many self-employed people there are no distinctions in their

1:24:27 > 1:24:33personal and business finances.To exclude business finances from the

1:24:33 > 1:24:38SS GB's remit is a missed opportunity especially given the

1:24:38 > 1:24:41growth and implement problem there has been in recent years, many

1:24:41 > 1:24:44self-employed as a group have also seen falling income since the

1:24:44 > 1:24:55recession you'll macro, double the ministersince the recession, and as

1:24:55 > 1:25:03for the changes to claims management companies, the changes are not

1:25:03 > 1:25:07satisfactory, and it has been characterised by an poor value for

1:25:07 > 1:25:18money and nuisance calls and speculative and fraudulent claims.

1:25:18 > 1:25:26This can provide access to justice for those who are not willing to

1:25:26 > 1:25:31bring a claim for compensation themselves. Further, as the Karren

1:25:31 > 1:25:35Brady review says, well functioning market can act as a check and

1:25:35 > 1:25:41balance on the conduct and complaint balances. We know the review

1:25:41 > 1:25:46considered a move GDS FA would represent a step change and this

1:25:46 > 1:25:50seems the right decision, especially as 99% of turnover relates to

1:25:50 > 1:25:57financial services, and PPI and package bank accounts. Turning to

1:25:57 > 1:26:02the other part of the bill, there are some aspects we want to

1:26:02 > 1:26:11strengthen especially clauses, four, five, 20 and 28. I will.Thank you

1:26:11 > 1:26:18forgiving way. I am fortunate enough to chair the co-operative party and

1:26:18 > 1:26:23when the things we are keen to encourage the take-up of services

1:26:23 > 1:26:27offered by the financial cooperatives like credit unions,

1:26:27 > 1:26:31would she be sympathetic to an amendment at report stage from Co-op

1:26:31 > 1:26:37MPs urging single finance body to promote credit union services across

1:26:37 > 1:26:46the country?Again, you have made a very interesting point. I would look

1:26:46 > 1:26:50to work with him on the details of that and to understand exactly what

1:26:50 > 1:26:56he wants to achieve. I also want to talk about the need for a duty of

1:26:56 > 1:26:59care on financial service providers and a breathing space for those

1:26:59 > 1:27:08trying to manage their debt problems. Moving ontohorse-4-macro,

1:27:08 > 1:27:14we welcome to the ban on cold calling but the scope of the clause

1:27:14 > 1:27:20is too narrow and not urgent enough -- clause four. People are being

1:27:20 > 1:27:26conned out of their life savings. There also scams which work against

1:27:26 > 1:27:30businesses and the Association of British travel agents has recorded a

1:27:30 > 1:27:34520% increase in the number of gastric illness complaints and as a

1:27:34 > 1:27:41result hoteliers are now threatening significant price increases and some

1:27:41 > 1:27:43are even considering withdrawing the all-inclusive product from UK

1:27:43 > 1:27:50holiday-makers entirely. Recently released statistics have shown one

1:27:50 > 1:27:56in five people have been contacted about making a holiday sickness

1:27:56 > 1:28:07claim with cold calling being the most often used approach. Adverts

1:28:07 > 1:28:11have appeared online of encouraging people to cash in their pension

1:28:11 > 1:28:16pots, and the minister, I'm sure, will have noted the evidence from

1:28:16 > 1:28:18the work and pensions select committee where the extent of

1:28:18 > 1:28:22pension scammers was revealed, this has involved advisers travelling

1:28:22 > 1:28:26hundreds of miles in the hope of capturing high fees for each pension

1:28:26 > 1:28:33pot basic seed in transferring. The select committee described these

1:28:33 > 1:28:40predatory sharks, providing a honeypot for scammers, and one

1:28:40 > 1:28:43steelworker has missed out on £200,000 reportedly after being

1:28:43 > 1:28:53advised. We already seeing a similar targeting Carillion pension members.

1:28:53 > 1:28:55The law does not Karel Abraham it firms acting as introducers provided

1:28:55 > 1:29:02they do not strain to provide services for which they require FCA

1:29:02 > 1:29:10authorisation -- the law does not currently prohibit. Last year there

1:29:10 > 1:29:13were over 100 reports of unauthorised activity in the UK and

1:29:13 > 1:29:18if the firms and individuals reported were investigated, they can

1:29:18 > 1:29:22take action, and this ranges from publishing unauthorised firms and

1:29:22 > 1:29:27individual warnings and taking down websites, to taking civil court

1:29:27 > 1:29:33action to stop activity and freeze assets, and criminal prosecution for

1:29:33 > 1:29:43the most serious cases. In that year where there were 8612 reports the

1:29:43 > 1:29:49number of enforcement cases taken was 69. Given the current climate it

1:29:49 > 1:29:54is clear in force in action needs to be increased up the majority of

1:29:54 > 1:29:57funds for the FCA collect some penalties on financial services and

1:29:57 > 1:30:01it goes directly to the Treasury. What consideration has the minister

1:30:01 > 1:30:05given to removing the exemption of introducing this to the financial

1:30:05 > 1:30:13services and markets act 2000, what consideration has the minister given

1:30:13 > 1:30:17to allowing the FCA to keep the financial penalties they receive so

1:30:17 > 1:30:23they can increased enforcement work. Free and impartial pension wise

1:30:23 > 1:30:26guidance is essential at times like this and it is greatly valued by

1:30:26 > 1:30:30those who use it. But the take-up is nowhere near high enough, and for

1:30:30 > 1:30:35far too many people they are taking vital decisions in the dark putting

1:30:35 > 1:30:41them at greater risk in suffering financial detriment through scams

1:30:41 > 1:30:44and choices country to their interests such as transferring

1:30:44 > 1:30:49pensions to saving accounts. These problems will only grow as people

1:30:49 > 1:30:52become more reliant on income from DC pensions and retirement, the

1:30:52 > 1:31:05existing pension wise scheme, has proved insufficient. We welcome the

1:31:05 > 1:31:07government's acceptance that people should be given more encouragement

1:31:07 > 1:31:12to take guidance but we want to propose a stronger nudge. While the

1:31:12 > 1:31:17new clause is well, we think it can be improved through exemption is to

1:31:17 > 1:31:26avoid unnecessary -- is welcome. While individuals could choose to

1:31:26 > 1:31:30not take free and impartial advice, this would no longer be the

1:31:30 > 1:31:36consequence of specifically. And people would have to actively opt

1:31:36 > 1:31:42out. Default guidance would promote shopping around and better informed

1:31:42 > 1:31:47decision-making and protection against scams, combined with a ban

1:31:47 > 1:31:50on cold calling it would represent a step forward in consumer protection

1:31:50 > 1:31:55in the era of pension freedoms, so will the minister agree new

1:31:55 > 1:32:00provisions at committee stage to put in place an immediate ban on cold

1:32:00 > 1:32:05calling and introduced a fault guidance to assist people? --

1:32:05 > 1:32:11introduce default guidance. With strong penalties for advisers who

1:32:11 > 1:32:17detrimentally scam pension members. On clause 25 the FCA will have the

1:32:17 > 1:32:20power to impose a cap on the fees that claims management companies can

1:32:20 > 1:32:28charge their services and a duty to exercise this power in respect of

1:32:28 > 1:32:31financial services firms, the government also introduced a cap

1:32:31 > 1:32:41that they could charge relating to payment protection schemes. But this

1:32:41 > 1:32:46is very often very little work and feature very high fees for them the

1:32:46 > 1:32:52average amount of commission charged by consumers... To consumers by CMC,

1:32:52 > 1:33:0228% plus VAT, and the average pay-out for PPB -- PPI is £700, and

1:33:02 > 1:33:12so they could charge a claimant £476. It would still mean an average

1:33:12 > 1:33:15charge of £340 with VAT on top of that, and if the government were to

1:33:15 > 1:33:20take meaningful action to protect consumers from high fees, they would

1:33:20 > 1:33:23propose a solution that would allow consumers to get 100% of the PPI

1:33:23 > 1:33:29compensation. The government should require firms to pay CMC costs for

1:33:29 > 1:33:39claims capped at 20% plus VAT when they are at fault. This measure

1:33:39 > 1:33:42would only apply for the interim period until new FCA revelations

1:33:42 > 1:33:47come into force or until August 2019 which is the deadline for making PPI

1:33:47 > 1:33:53claims -- regulations. This would incentivise firms who are still

1:33:53 > 1:33:58trying to reach consumers, to make claims directly to them, and to

1:33:58 > 1:34:03allow it to be easily done, and it will also protect consumers from

1:34:03 > 1:34:10paying high charges to CMCs. Whilst we support the strengthening of the

1:34:10 > 1:34:14regulations of CMC is we look forward to the future regime that

1:34:14 > 1:34:18better protects consumers from high charges and poor value of money and

1:34:18 > 1:34:23unacceptable behaviour on the part of too many CMCs and we also welcome

1:34:23 > 1:34:30the improvements made in part to from the other place -- part two.

1:34:35 > 1:34:38This is an important protection for consumers in the run-up to the FCA's

1:34:38 > 1:34:43claims deadlines of August 2019 and whilst customers can claim directly

1:34:43 > 1:34:46from their PPI provider for free, those who choose to enlist support

1:34:46 > 1:34:51should not have to face the fees currently charged by some CMCs but

1:34:51 > 1:34:56the clauses introduced by the government only applied to PPI

1:34:56 > 1:35:02claims even though the minister justice's original consultation

1:35:02 > 1:35:08considered other bog claims, notably in respect of packaged bank accounts

1:35:08 > 1:35:17-- bulk claims. ... But in its response to that consultation, the

1:35:17 > 1:35:21image a merely asserted that analysis of the evidence received

1:35:21 > 1:35:24suggested PBA claims should be grouped with other financial

1:35:24 > 1:35:27services claims because of additional work needed on these

1:35:27 > 1:35:34types of claims -- PPA claims. It is far from clear that CMC has

1:35:34 > 1:35:43undergone additional work. If CMC's approach truly is different from

1:35:43 > 1:35:46their approach to PPI claims, this bill should cap their charges

1:35:46 > 1:35:50inexact in the same way. If the government cannot provide the

1:35:50 > 1:36:01justification -- in exactly for the same way. ... We will seek to lay

1:36:01 > 1:36:05members in committee that will for the we asked the government for

1:36:05 > 1:36:10better justification of its decision not to apply the interim fee cap to

1:36:10 > 1:36:16PPA claims. Moving to the breathing space, there are an estimated 2.4

1:36:16 > 1:36:20million children living in families in problem debt in England and Wales

1:36:20 > 1:36:25and the FCA estimates that half of the UK population are financially

1:36:25 > 1:36:28vulnerable, it is shocking that there is an estimated 600,000

1:36:28 > 1:36:32families in England and Wales bending more on overdue bills than

1:36:32 > 1:36:38they spend on food -- spending. A measure which would protect these

1:36:38 > 1:36:41families is the breathing space scheme, such a proposal will

1:36:41 > 1:36:45introduce a legal freeze on interest and charges collections and in force

1:36:45 > 1:36:50in action to give people time and space to stabilise their finances

1:36:50 > 1:36:56and put in place an affordable and repayment sustainable plan, such a

1:36:56 > 1:37:01scheme which has been championed by the Children's Society, step change

1:37:01 > 1:37:04debt charity and others was included in both our manifesto and the

1:37:04 > 1:37:10Conservative Party and I'm delighted to see the following movement in the

1:37:10 > 1:37:15other plays, the commitment is now on the face of the bill, but yet

1:37:15 > 1:37:18again the timescale for implementation is too slow. I

1:37:18 > 1:37:21appreciate that the consultation is now closed but I would wish that the

1:37:21 > 1:37:25fundamental tenants for any successful scheme would have the

1:37:25 > 1:37:30following, firstly, the scheme should include a legal freeze on

1:37:30 > 1:37:35interest and charges collections and enforcement action, secondly, as

1:37:35 > 1:37:37many debts as possible need to be included especially debts to public

1:37:37 > 1:37:42bodies for some firstly, there needs to be gaps and protection from the

1:37:42 > 1:37:48initial breathing space period and the statutory plan, and the

1:37:48 > 1:37:51breathing space scheme needs to be implement it as quickly as possible

1:37:51 > 1:37:57and again I be grateful for the minister's response or in writing

1:37:57 > 1:38:03following this debate -- I would be grateful. I am coming to the end, Mr

1:38:03 > 1:38:11speaker. And now to another, which has been raised by members, duty of

1:38:11 > 1:38:17care from financial service providers -- to another comment.

1:38:17 > 1:38:23Although this is not in the bill. Research from Macmillan Cancer

1:38:23 > 1:38:27Support as has been raised earlier, shows that four out of five people

1:38:27 > 1:38:34with cancer were affected by increased costs and loss of income,

1:38:34 > 1:38:39and as the bill recognises, making sure people have access to the right

1:38:39 > 1:38:42help and advice is essential in stopping financial problems... I

1:38:42 > 1:38:45will do.

1:38:45 > 1:38:50Ymize, Would she join me in congratulating Nationwide building

1:38:50 > 1:38:59society who have led the way with working with McMillan to ensure

1:38:59 > 1:39:03support is available when there is a diagnosis.I congratulate all the

1:39:03 > 1:39:11organisations that recognise that they have a care, a duty of care to

1:39:11 > 1:39:15their customers, including Nationwide. But as I say, this needs

1:39:15 > 1:39:19to be something that we put on the face of the bill, particularly for

1:39:19 > 1:39:23people who find themselves in vulnerable circumstances. As

1:39:23 > 1:39:27providers of mortgages and other financial commitments, banks and

1:39:27 > 1:39:31building societies have a huge influence on the the financial well

1:39:31 > 1:39:36being of many, when the right support is put in place it can lead

1:39:36 > 1:39:41to improved outcomes. However, research from McMillan shows that

1:39:41 > 1:39:49problems still exist and there is a lack of consis ten sistency in

1:39:49 > 1:39:56support offered. Will the Government look at the legislation regarding a

1:39:56 > 1:40:01duty of care. That committee concluded the Government should

1:40:01 > 1:40:05amend the financial services and markets act to introduce a

1:40:05 > 1:40:11requirement to make rules setting out a reasonable duty of care for

1:40:11 > 1:40:15providers. I appreciate that any change as significant as this must

1:40:15 > 1:40:21be subject to proper consideration and it is welcome that the FCA has

1:40:21 > 1:40:28committed to publishing a paper on this. The government and the FCA

1:40:28 > 1:40:32must wait until after the UK's withdrawal from the EU is clear. I

1:40:32 > 1:40:35don't think we can make. People can't wait. I would urge the

1:40:35 > 1:40:41minister to look at this and bring forward proposals at committee

1:40:41 > 1:40:46stage. This bill is one we by and large support, but we believe there

1:40:46 > 1:40:50are a number of areas we can strengthen and the particular one

1:40:50 > 1:40:55that I have mentioned needs to be added on to the face of the bill. I

1:40:55 > 1:40:59urge the minister to act on these and look forward to their response.

1:40:59 > 1:41:06Before I bring the speaker, can I suggest an informal time limit of

1:41:06 > 1:41:12between ten and 12 minutes.I will aim to do better. It is a pleasure

1:41:12 > 1:41:18to follow the member for Oldham East's very thoughtful speech. I

1:41:18 > 1:41:25welcome this pill bill and will support it. I want to in particular

1:41:25 > 1:41:29talk about the second part of bill, the part relating to claims

1:41:29 > 1:41:33management companies and the reason I take an interest in claims

1:41:33 > 1:41:38management companies is that a few years ago my wife and I were

1:41:38 > 1:41:42involved in a very minor road traffic accident on the M5 I think

1:41:42 > 1:41:48heading to Cornwall on a family holiday. And for a year or so

1:41:48 > 1:41:51following this very minor bump I was plagued with phone calls to my

1:41:51 > 1:41:57mobile phone on an almost weekly basis by one of these companies,

1:41:57 > 1:42:02goodness how they got my mobile phone number. And in each call they

1:42:02 > 1:42:14essentially tried to persuade me to submit a fraudulent claim for

1:42:14 > 1:42:23whiplash, even I said we suffer ed no injury, they said if you tell us

1:42:23 > 1:42:28your neck hurts we will get you £3,000. This went on for a year and

1:42:28 > 1:42:34I imagine if somebody was short of cash they may succumb to these

1:42:34 > 1:42:45blandishments. I made it a topic I wanted to get involved with. The

1:42:45 > 1:42:51number of claims for essentially whiplash accidents, minor road

1:42:51 > 1:42:58traffic accident soft tissue injuries has gone up by 50%. At the

1:42:58 > 1:43:05same time that traffic accidents have gone down by 30%. So the number

1:43:05 > 1:43:10of accidents leading to a claim have gone up and if you compare the

1:43:10 > 1:43:14number of claims with equivalent European country, you will see that

1:43:14 > 1:43:20we have just far more claims in this country than we do in those other

1:43:20 > 1:43:25European countries. We recently, as the member for ole ham east

1:43:25 > 1:43:30mentioned, we have had a similar phenomenon which has started in

1:43:30 > 1:43:35relation to claims for gastric illness, tummy upsets on holiday. I

1:43:35 > 1:43:41should put on record or remind the House in my declaration of

1:43:41 > 1:43:45interests, I have a share holding in a small holiday business. Although

1:43:45 > 1:43:51not one that has had a significant problem in this area. But since 2013

1:43:51 > 1:43:58there has been a 568% increase in claims for tummy upsets. And there

1:43:58 > 1:44:01have been following holidays and there have been some notorious

1:44:01 > 1:44:08cases. The case of Deborah Britain and Paul Roberts who were sentenced

1:44:08 > 1:44:15to nine and 15 months in prison by Liverpool Crown Court a short time

1:44:15 > 1:44:18ago, because having foolished tweeted and put Facebook posts up

1:44:18 > 1:44:24saying how wonderful their holiday was they tried to claim their

1:44:24 > 1:44:29holiday had been ruined by gastric illness at the behest of some claims

1:44:29 > 1:44:34management company. Cases like that, where companies have incited the

1:44:34 > 1:44:43public to essentially commit fraud are becoming all too common. My

1:44:43 > 1:44:49objection to the activities of these companies are two fold. They are

1:44:49 > 1:44:57inciting people to commit fraud. Secondly, the costs of these

1:44:57 > 1:45:04compensation payments are born by the drivers through higher insurance

1:45:04 > 1:45:15premiums,est may wanted £20. -- or by higher cost of holidays. It is

1:45:15 > 1:45:24the consumer, your constituent and mine who bear the cost. If you ask

1:45:24 > 1:45:32the question why this happens, it because v is because there are

1:45:32 > 1:45:38financial incentives for companies to act in this way. In particular

1:45:38 > 1:45:42with one-way cost shifting, where unusually even if the defendants or

1:45:42 > 1:45:47the company or the car insurance company successfully defends the

1:45:47 > 1:45:55case, they still have to play the claimant's legal costs. They can run

1:45:55 > 1:46:03up to £10,000 or more. Settling the cost often costs £3,000. So the

1:46:03 > 1:46:08insurer or the company has a financial incentive to settle and

1:46:08 > 1:46:13the claims management company just had to process the paperwork to

1:46:13 > 1:46:18collect high fees. They're responding to an incentive that the

1:46:18 > 1:46:23current system has created. The number of claims management

1:46:23 > 1:46:30companies has mushroomed from 500 to 2006 to 3,300 in 2011. Measures

1:46:30 > 1:46:35taken already has reduced that to 1,500, but I think it is still far

1:46:35 > 1:46:42too high and there is definitely more we need to do. Now, in terms of

1:46:42 > 1:46:49this particular bill before the House, I certainly welcome the

1:46:49 > 1:46:51transfer of over sight responsibilities to the Financial

1:46:51 > 1:46:55Conduct Authority. That is a welcome measure and I welcome the

1:46:55 > 1:46:59introduction of fee caps in relation to claims management companies. We

1:46:59 > 1:47:04need to be careful that we draft the regulations to make sure they can't

1:47:04 > 1:47:09circumvent the cap, so I think the cap refers to 20 or 25% of the net

1:47:09 > 1:47:15recovery. We need to make Hewer the company can't extract any portion of

1:47:15 > 1:47:20recovery by way of fixed charge, so we have to be careful about the

1:47:20 > 1:47:25detail of how we word that. Because these companies are adept at

1:47:25 > 1:47:32circumventing Government attempts to restrict their activities.I thank

1:47:32 > 1:47:37my honourable friend. He will understand I hope how much we

1:47:37 > 1:47:40welcome the bill on this side of the House, because in Scotland, up until

1:47:40 > 1:47:46now there has been no protection for consumers in the face of this

1:47:46 > 1:47:53onslaught of companies.Well I thank the honourable gentleman and I'm

1:47:53 > 1:47:57shocked to learn that the Government in Scotland has been so slow to take

1:47:57 > 1:48:02action when the Westminster Government has been so quick.He

1:48:02 > 1:48:08will understand that in this area this is a reserved matter, so the

1:48:08 > 1:48:14Scottish Government has no locus to act.That is not true!I notice from

1:48:14 > 1:48:18a sedentary position the member for Stirling takes another view. If he

1:48:18 > 1:48:23speaks he will elaborate that point. I will give way.Thank you for this

1:48:23 > 1:48:28powerful speech. In addition to the raising the cost of insurance for

1:48:28 > 1:48:32everybody else and encouraging people to incite fraud, does the

1:48:32 > 1:48:38member agree that this cold calling can cause huge amounts of distress

1:48:38 > 1:48:43to the person on the end, the other end of the phone who are reminded

1:48:43 > 1:48:48constantly about accidents that they may wish to forget.I think she

1:48:48 > 1:48:54makes a good point. Even as someone, as I consider myself a robust

1:48:54 > 1:48:58individual, the constant pest perking was distressing o' e -

1:48:58 > 1:49:04pestering was distressing. I can imagine it would be distressing.

1:49:04 > 1:49:11That leads me to my next point in relation to the cold call ban. I

1:49:11 > 1:49:16welcome the inclusion of clause in the bill. But the way that it is

1:49:16 > 1:49:21structured currently invites the new regulatory, the single regulatory

1:49:21 > 1:49:25authority to make a recommendation to the Secretary of State who then

1:49:25 > 1:49:30by regulation has power to act. Given the pressing nature of the

1:49:30 > 1:49:37problem I wonder if the Secretary of State might consider having a rather

1:49:37 > 1:49:41more direct route so, the Secretary of State has power to ban cold

1:49:41 > 1:49:45calling in this area immediately, without needing to wait for a

1:49:45 > 1:49:48referral by the new authority and I can see the Secretary of State is

1:49:48 > 1:49:52listening to point. If she could give that consideration and that

1:49:52 > 1:49:56might be an amendment that members on both sides of the House would

1:49:56 > 1:50:02welcome as this bill progresses through this House. I think there

1:50:02 > 1:50:06are other things which we need to do that are probably beyond the scope

1:50:06 > 1:50:11of the bill, but very important. In particular in relation to the

1:50:11 > 1:50:17holiday claims I know the Government is consulting on the civil procedure

1:50:17 > 1:50:21rules that would bring overseas claims, claims into the scope of the

1:50:21 > 1:50:26fixed fee schedule. That would be an extremely welcome move and I would

1:50:26 > 1:50:30encourage the Ministry of Justice to expedite their response to that

1:50:30 > 1:50:36consultation, which is itself very welcome. I had the pleasure of

1:50:36 > 1:50:40sitting earlier in 2017 on the prisons and courts bill committee,

1:50:40 > 1:50:45the work of which was unfortunately, can I see the minister recalls that,

1:50:45 > 1:50:50the work of that committee was interrupt bed I ed by the general

1:50:50 > 1:50:56election. The Government plans to bring forward a civil liability bill

1:50:56 > 1:51:00and I would encourage the Government to bring that foretoward quickly,

1:51:00 > 1:51:04because there are in measures that could be included in that bill that

1:51:04 > 1:51:09would assist with the problems I have been referring to. Not least

1:51:09 > 1:51:16raising the threshold for the small claims track to £5,000. Considering

1:51:16 > 1:51:23a ban on general damages. In relation to low value injuries. And

1:51:23 > 1:51:27making sure that the medical evidence standard for these various

1:51:27 > 1:51:33claims is made a bit higher. For example you need to see an

1:51:33 > 1:51:39independent doctor. There is a range of things that that bill could do

1:51:39 > 1:51:47when it is introduced. Not wishing to stretch the elastic of your...

1:51:47 > 1:51:51Guidelines issued a few minutes ago I will conclude by saying this a

1:51:51 > 1:51:58welcome bill and will do a lot to strengthen consumer right and I will

1:51:58 > 1:52:05support it.Could say on behalf of the SNP what a pleasure it is to see

1:52:05 > 1:52:11you back in the chair. It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to

1:52:11 > 1:52:15respond to the second reading for the SNP. I should say we broadly

1:52:15 > 1:52:19welcome the aims of this bill and will not be opposing the second

1:52:19 > 1:52:25reading. By way of some background, this bill sets out in part one to

1:52:25 > 1:52:32merge three existing Government sponsored guidance services. To

1:52:32 > 1:52:36create a new single financial guidance body. The UK Government

1:52:36 > 1:52:43hopes this will help to ensure that members of public can access good

1:52:43 > 1:52:51quality advice. The SFGB is expected to be set up from late 2018 as

1:52:51 > 1:53:02predicted during the passage of bill. CMCs assist people in making

1:53:02 > 1:53:05compensation claims such as personal injury and financial products likes

1:53:05 > 1:53:12PPI. The government has ex pressed concern there is evidence of

1:53:12 > 1:53:16malpractice after and a review the Government said it would change the

1:53:16 > 1:53:22system for CMCs. The responsibility will pass from the Ministry of

1:53:22 > 1:53:27Justice to the Financial Conduct Authority and under part two

1:53:27 > 1:53:36complaints handling would be transferred to the other service.

1:53:36 > 1:53:42They would impose a cap on fees for PPI claims. The bill makes provision

1:53:42 > 1:53:47for the devolution of levy funding associated with that debt advice

1:53:47 > 1:54:03provision. Powers over debt advice are already devolved to Scotland.

1:54:03 > 1:54:07We welcome any doubt that there are aspect that would like to query and

1:54:07 > 1:54:14hopefully get some reassurance, firstly I would like to get detailed

1:54:14 > 1:54:19reassurances, Mr Deputy Speaker, the Minister that amalgamating three

1:54:19 > 1:54:24expert services in Taiwan will not dilute the service in any way, not

1:54:24 > 1:54:29in terms of output or quality. The Minister is shaking his head but I

1:54:29 > 1:54:36hope it could provide details. Whatever a merger like this takes

1:54:36 > 1:54:43place, -- whenever, we hope the Minister can assure us all that

1:54:43 > 1:54:48neither will happen. I also hope that the Minister will commit that

1:54:48 > 1:54:50there will be a significant investment new body to ensure that

1:54:50 > 1:54:55it is promoted and therefore awareness increases. Speakers across

1:54:55 > 1:54:59the House have stressed the importance for that. We need

1:54:59 > 1:55:04reassurances regarding funding, it appears all funding discretion rests

1:55:04 > 1:55:08with the Treasury, so who will take the decision as to what budget the

1:55:08 > 1:55:12new single body will be? Who will be able to challenge the charter on any

1:55:12 > 1:55:17additional funding and clearly for this to work, needs to be properly

1:55:17 > 1:55:21resource from the financial sector and from the Government. I ask this

1:55:21 > 1:55:25as we all hope not least the Government, I am sure, we all hope

1:55:25 > 1:55:29that this bill will do some to catch up on some of the problems we all

1:55:29 > 1:55:32warned about regarding pension freedoms, which are coming to

1:55:32 > 1:55:38fruition. According to the FCA, over 1 million conjugation pension

1:55:38 > 1:55:42schemes have been accessed since George Osborne's performs up and

1:55:42 > 1:55:47they say the policy has become the new norm. This is where our concern

1:55:47 > 1:55:52starts. Between October 2015 and September 2016, the number of Nantes

1:55:52 > 1:55:58advised drawdown sales was on the rise, it's currently at 30% of

1:55:58 > 1:56:04drawdown sale compared to 5% before the reforms. 63%, almost two thirds,

1:56:04 > 1:56:14are now consumers... They estimate that not only about 20% of all

1:56:14 > 1:56:17consumers accessing the DC pension in the third quarter of two to 16,

1:56:17 > 1:56:25had a penchant of just hundred percent -- this is a huge concern

1:56:25 > 1:56:29and it's one the Government shares, I'm sure. But I know it concerns the

1:56:29 > 1:56:32Government not because they are trying to play catch up on the

1:56:32 > 1:56:35issues like these would pension freedoms, which we warned about when

1:56:35 > 1:56:41we were that I am not sure that this bill adequately does so as yet. I'm

1:56:41 > 1:56:45not sure that this bill addresses the customers who did not make a

1:56:45 > 1:56:51decision upon retirement. We are seeing more people choosing just to

1:56:51 > 1:56:54drawdown the Port bridge then the bank. With inflation rates as they

1:56:54 > 1:56:59are, this decision is losing people might. They are doing it because

1:56:59 > 1:57:02they know what they're comfortable with. Even seeking pensions advice

1:57:02 > 1:57:07or guidance is a daunting prospect. Complex, and alien to most. I am

1:57:07 > 1:57:11keen to hear from the Minister about not just the expectations for

1:57:11 > 1:57:16increased usage of the new service, but how they plan to ensure think

1:57:16 > 1:57:19age people who are putting off talking about pensions at all. They

1:57:19 > 1:57:22will probably be disagree with what they plan to call the organisation,

1:57:22 > 1:57:26the single financial titans body probably isn't the most intriguing

1:57:26 > 1:57:33or appropriate and I want a firm commitment that the committee stage,

1:57:33 > 1:57:43it will not at any way want it... This means that scheme managers and

1:57:43 > 1:57:46trustees must check whether members have received any guidance. I wonder

1:57:46 > 1:57:51whether the Government will wish to go a little further towards what

1:57:51 > 1:57:56some would feel is more appropriate, which is automatic guidance with an

1:57:56 > 1:57:59opt out system. Most people when they are near retirement will be

1:57:59 > 1:58:05encountering the pensions world and products for the first time. It is

1:58:05 > 1:58:10intimidating, which is why if we do see people using this, but to get

1:58:10 > 1:58:15the most out of their investments, we need to make sure that people are

1:58:15 > 1:58:22not only properly guided, but making informed decisions. It is a

1:58:22 > 1:58:29high-stakes game. Once an annuity is purchased, it can be -- can't be

1:58:29 > 1:58:35reversed. Taking a decision and holding cash may not be the best

1:58:35 > 1:58:39decision, and there is a specialist help out there and it doesn't have

1:58:39 > 1:58:44to cost. The Government brought a useful amendment to clause two in

1:58:44 > 1:58:51the... Concerning people in vulnerable circumstances. Perhaps

1:58:51 > 1:58:55this could be strengthened and clarified by including it in the

1:58:55 > 1:58:58clause three function. I would also appreciate a word from the Minister

1:58:58 > 1:59:02as to whether the UK Government plans to provide raider Karthik

1:59:02 > 1:59:08Krishna what guidance and advice will be in terms of this bill. I

1:59:08 > 1:59:10think providers and other stakeholders will appreciate this

1:59:10 > 1:59:16current location. Also covered by part 1 is action on cold calling. We

1:59:16 > 1:59:21are delighted to see the campaigning efforts of the SNP and the Scottish

1:59:21 > 1:59:27Government regarding cold calling is starting to pay off. I congratulate

1:59:27 > 1:59:29her on this particular campaign, that partial wind which hopefully

1:59:29 > 1:59:36make a difference, particularly pensioners, from getting bombarded

1:59:36 > 1:59:40by nuisance calls. Research suggests that there could be as many eight

1:59:40 > 1:59:45scam calls every second, the equipment of 250 million calls a

1:59:45 > 2:00:00year. Citizens advice is counting but the... Perhaps the UK Government

2:00:00 > 2:00:06may wish to use the opportunity in clause 4 to go further on cold

2:00:06 > 2:00:09calling and hold company bosses accountable, as suggested by my

2:00:09 > 2:00:14honourable friend and her bill 18 months ago. Clause 9 appears to

2:00:14 > 2:00:17afford a lot of power to the Secretary of State to direct

2:00:17 > 2:00:20exercise of the functions of the new body, stating that it must comply

2:00:20 > 2:00:23with the directions given to it by the Secretary of State. I hope the

2:00:23 > 2:00:27Minister will explain why the UK Government feel this is a necessary

2:00:27 > 2:00:40provision and how... I want to that the dot if I picked it up correctly,

2:00:40 > 2:00:50I think she said that household debt was following. -- falling. Household

2:00:50 > 2:01:02debt is not falling, and... There is concern about UK rates of household

2:01:02 > 2:01:13debt, perhaps I could be clarified -- that could be...Under the

2:01:13 > 2:01:22devolution of financial economic matters, including ...That clears

2:01:22 > 2:01:27up an earlier point of issue that was held during the previous speech

2:01:27 > 2:01:33in regards to where the responsibility lies in this area. We

2:01:33 > 2:01:39are pleased of the Scottish Government, so I think my honourable

2:01:39 > 2:01:41friend, that the Government has secured an allocation terms of the

2:01:41 > 2:01:47proposed funding formula for debt advice provision. This improved

2:01:47 > 2:01:54allocation will ensure that Scotland's share takes account of...

2:01:54 > 2:01:58As a result of these discussions, the Government levy fund will

2:01:58 > 2:02:02increase from two million to more than £4.7 million according to

2:02:02 > 2:02:04estimates from the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government

2:02:04 > 2:02:11have obtained agreement on wider principles. In that it must take

2:02:11 > 2:02:14into account of differences in the money and debt landscape in Scotland

2:02:14 > 2:02:25to ensure that available resource or pulled effectively, the lush pooled

2:02:25 > 2:02:37-- pooled. And ensuring that collaborative working is achieved in

2:02:37 > 2:02:41practise across money and pensions guidance. It must be capable of

2:02:41 > 2:02:45channeling funding in the way that ensures effective oversight and

2:02:45 > 2:02:50coordination for delivery of debt advice in light of the devolution of

2:02:50 > 2:02:55levy funding. Keith Brown MSP, the Cabinet Secretary for economy jobs

2:02:55 > 2:03:07and their work in Scotland has met with the... To ensure that there is

2:03:07 > 2:03:09a seamless transfer of responsibility is to the Scottish

2:03:09 > 2:03:12Government and that the new body engages effectively and delivers for

2:03:12 > 2:03:26Scotch consumers... I am grateful... Namely, will the Government agree on

2:03:26 > 2:03:30the importance of a certain implementation, time frame to ensure

2:03:30 > 2:03:35organisations can plan and the relevant systems and while the

2:03:35 > 2:03:40Government -- will the Government consider an implementation date,

2:03:40 > 2:03:44regulations in place by the end of 2019, so that the scheme can be

2:03:44 > 2:03:46launched by 2020. Will the Government confirm its manifesto

2:03:46 > 2:03:52promise to commit to introducing statutory repayment plans as part of

2:03:52 > 2:03:57the proposed scheme. When does the Government agree that initial

2:03:57 > 2:04:04periods of... Will they look at allowing a regulated debt adviser

2:04:04 > 2:04:11where necessary extend initial patch. Thus the Minister agree that

2:04:11 > 2:04:20breathing space should cover all person's debts and this Minister

2:04:20 > 2:04:23think that it will be useful to have creditors outside the scheme

2:04:23 > 2:04:28undermining peoples abilities to stabilise their finances. Could the

2:04:28 > 2:04:33Minister also please clarify what will be conveyed under cost of the

2:04:33 > 2:04:43one subsections 7, which allows the Secretary of State amend any... Our

2:04:43 > 2:04:50legislation of of that it does seem to me rather far-reaching, so I

2:04:50 > 2:04:55would appreciate some guidance as to the behind that particular line in

2:04:55 > 2:04:58the Bill. In the second part of the build regarding claims management

2:04:58 > 2:05:04companies, I of the Mr will be answered queries to assure us. It

2:05:04 > 2:05:11has been raised by others that while it is welcome that a feed cap for

2:05:11 > 2:05:17CMCs can charge consumers are a good thing, there are others that have

2:05:17 > 2:05:20been brought on behalf of customers that required that strengthened

2:05:20 > 2:05:26regulation, for example packaged bank accounts, which come with extra

2:05:26 > 2:05:34features for mobile phones... Has the Government looked widely at the

2:05:34 > 2:05:37claims being brought by CMCs and can they provide assurances that there

2:05:37 > 2:05:41aren't any types of claims which are potentially exploiting customers

2:05:41 > 2:05:52with exorbitant fees. I'm also concerned that... We must be

2:05:52 > 2:06:01reminded that with a deadline to be set, CMC is will be rather busy to

2:06:01 > 2:06:05muster business in this period. We want to make sure that we can

2:06:05 > 2:06:09protect vulnerable people as much as possible. In conclusion, I think

2:06:09 > 2:06:13this bill has the right intentions and moves us in the right direction,

2:06:13 > 2:06:19there are questions that I hope the Minister will be able to follow up

2:06:19 > 2:06:29in writing for the committee stage. I'm also grateful to adjust people's

2:06:29 > 2:06:45pensions and the -- and look forward to... Thank you.I'm delighted to

2:06:45 > 2:06:49have the opportunity to speak today in this debate. I particularly

2:06:49 > 2:06:55passionate about the need to provide... To give them that lifting

2:06:55 > 2:07:01hand. After -- and for this reason I will be focusing on part one. That

2:07:01 > 2:07:06creates a vicious cycle. It leads people unable to pay their bills and

2:07:06 > 2:07:09pushes people further into debt. This becomes a fast Mark moving the

2:07:09 > 2:07:17bash a fast-moving spiral and creates and accentuates mental

2:07:17 > 2:07:21health problems. It can cause suicide and even family breakdown. I

2:07:21 > 2:07:24have seen in my constituents and was ensure we full have -- as I'm sure

2:07:24 > 2:07:31we full have the last we've all had. Stories that started with just a

2:07:31 > 2:07:35small amount of debt and grew out of control. There is a strong

2:07:35 > 2:07:39relationship with mental health and a number of studies have been

2:07:39 > 2:07:42published, including one from the University of Southampton recently,

2:07:42 > 2:07:55that death is serious and... -- debt is serious. This bill creates a new

2:07:55 > 2:08:01financial guidance body that will replace three existing. I echo the

2:08:01 > 2:08:04strong support that has been expressed by stakeholders for

2:08:04 > 2:08:08establishing a single body. It will improve access to free and impartial

2:08:08 > 2:08:16money guidance, pension guidance and debt advice, enabling people to make

2:08:16 > 2:08:21informed decisions about their own finances by offering a more

2:08:21 > 2:08:24strategic approach and most importantly, it will simple fight

2:08:24 > 2:08:28the help on offer for people, whereas at the moment, the current

2:08:28 > 2:08:32situation can be very confusing. For the first time, it will mean a

2:08:32 > 2:08:38statutory requirement to target help to those most in need, particularly

2:08:38 > 2:08:42those in the most vulnerable circumstances, and will remove the

2:08:42 > 2:08:47duplication of services and identify... The levels of secured

2:08:47 > 2:08:52and unsecured debt in the UK are a problem. In the last few decades, we

2:08:52 > 2:08:57have seen this rise with the rise of the credit card and pay day loan

2:08:57 > 2:09:12era. That is easy -- debt is easy to accrue. The total household debt...

2:09:12 > 2:09:17Part one of this bill would, and I quote, insure the people have access

2:09:17 > 2:09:22to information and guidance that they need to make the most important

2:09:22 > 2:09:25and effective financial decisions that we all have to make at some

2:09:25 > 2:09:29point in our lives. What is important, though, is the

2:09:29 > 2:09:33implementation, so the people know that they have access to this free

2:09:33 > 2:09:38and impartial help and how to get it. So proactive promotion is key. I

2:09:38 > 2:09:42have met far too many constituents in the Chippenham who are unsure of

2:09:42 > 2:09:50where to turn to and how to access the help that they need. This bill

2:09:50 > 2:09:52seems to rectify this but it is important that there is proactive

2:09:52 > 2:09:55promotion, and I would like to hear more from the Minister about the

2:09:55 > 2:09:59plans for this. This does include early as Kool-Aid, and I was

2:09:59 > 2:10:04delighted when back in 2014, the Government made financial literacy

2:10:04 > 2:10:08statutory for the first ominous as part of the curriculum for ages 16.

2:10:08 > 2:10:13I am equally delighted that clause two of this bill does outline key

2:10:13 > 2:10:17function of the S and GBP to improve financial education for children and

2:10:17 > 2:10:26young people. I well.I had the time was chair of the group for financial

2:10:26 > 2:10:29education, and I was grateful for my honourable friend's to pour in the

2:10:29 > 2:10:35campaign. We live in a very complex society. Top located marketing

2:10:35 > 2:10:40messages coming forward, and to make sure we acquit all people of all

2:10:40 > 2:10:45ages to make informed decisions is an absolute priority.I think you

2:10:45 > 2:10:51become legally agree with his compliments -- comments. Debt after

2:10:51 > 2:10:56all is well prominent amongst young people was 71% of 25-34 -year-olds

2:10:56 > 2:11:01having a credit card compared to only 20% of those aged 65 and over.

2:11:01 > 2:11:08It is time for this bill, the ease and availability of credit, over

2:11:08 > 2:11:13lending and its consequences of problem that our start. I would like

2:11:13 > 2:11:16to highlight the Government's amendment of this bill at third

2:11:16 > 2:11:21reading in the Lords to enable the introduction of of a dead respite

2:11:21 > 2:11:24scheme in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, which was a

2:11:24 > 2:11:30Conservative Party manifesto. -- get respite. This is crucial. People are

2:11:30 > 2:11:33trapped in debt and it would offer them a ladder out of the whole they

2:11:33 > 2:11:36are stuck in. By stopping further interest charges and enforcing

2:11:36 > 2:11:40action for a set period to enable a realistic repayments can be put in

2:11:40 > 2:11:46place. It is all well and good if the levels of interest are in

2:11:46 > 2:11:52charges are compounded, but compounding to an extent that people

2:11:52 > 2:11:59did not simply have the money to fight it with, it is simply useless.

2:11:59 > 2:12:03That is why this debt respite scheme is so essential and is crucial that

2:12:03 > 2:12:06it is offered and promoted effectively to help people in need.

2:12:06 > 2:12:09This does, though, posed the question of how long this respite

2:12:09 > 2:12:14scheme would be and this will be up in the Secretary of State's power. I

2:12:14 > 2:12:17know charities in the centre are urging for a six-month period. What

2:12:17 > 2:12:23is a meaningful amount of time and will allow people enough time to

2:12:23 > 2:12:27address their debt problems and get plans in place. So it is everyone

2:12:27 > 2:12:32puzzling interest that is not just a mere six week period. In fact, the

2:12:32 > 2:12:38debt charities say that their clients usually take 6-12 months to

2:12:38 > 2:12:42stabilise their finances. The debt respite scheme will particularly

2:12:42 > 2:12:46help families. In fact, one if five parents said they have had problems

2:12:46 > 2:12:51in the past year with problem debt, whereas in Scotland where there is

2:12:51 > 2:12:54already a respite scheme, only ten point not percent of families said

2:12:54 > 2:13:00the same thing. Mr Deputy Speaker, I believe our roles as

2:13:00 > 2:13:03parliamentarians is to open doors and create opportunities.

2:13:03 > 2:13:08Opportunities, however, are useless if you are unable to access them.

2:13:08 > 2:13:12The debt respite scheme will offer people the helping hand and they

2:13:12 > 2:13:16need to seize those opportunities and the help that will be available

2:13:16 > 2:13:23for the Bill. In addition, we do need the current system to actively

2:13:23 > 2:13:29refer people and take a more proactive response to debt.

2:13:29 > 2:13:32Universal Credit streamlines benefits, which can assist with the

2:13:32 > 2:13:36debt management. But we are still offering and giving budgeting loans

2:13:36 > 2:13:41to those in considerable debt. More work needs to be done to identify

2:13:41 > 2:13:45and help people with chronic and severe debt problems. I would like

2:13:45 > 2:13:48to save a debt review done with people make applications for

2:13:48 > 2:13:56budgeting loans sooner -- similar to what happens to step change. If the

2:13:56 > 2:13:58applicant has severe problems with debt, they can be referred to and

2:13:58 > 2:14:04given the help that they need and the information and advice as well

2:14:04 > 2:14:11as offer the debt respite scheme. And under the repayment plan. It is

2:14:11 > 2:14:14irresponsible to add to their debt in the way we are currently doing

2:14:14 > 2:14:19so, so I would urge the Minister to consider this in the context of debt

2:14:19 > 2:14:23support and management, especially given the proportionate link between

2:14:23 > 2:14:26debt and unemployable. I've seen far too many constituent scribbled by

2:14:26 > 2:14:32Depp and given a budgeting loan on top. -- debt. This gives them a

2:14:32 > 2:14:35crisis they have to manage with. These are the types of people that

2:14:35 > 2:14:39do not come forward and offer up the information about their debt for

2:14:39 > 2:14:44fear of stigma, fear of losing benefits, concerns of legitimacy of

2:14:44 > 2:14:47having so many bank overdraft or credit card debt. They do not get

2:14:47 > 2:14:51the help they need, instead we give them a budgeting lump which further

2:14:51 > 2:14:55compound their problem. Budgeting loans are an excellent way to help

2:14:55 > 2:14:59people with short-term finance issues and startup costs. They are

2:14:59 > 2:15:07not right for those that are already swimming in debt. Those that are

2:15:07 > 2:15:09often more vulnerable. Those are the people that this bill is designed to

2:15:09 > 2:15:14help. So in conclusion, debt is largely the biggest challenge facing

2:15:14 > 2:15:19social mobility in this country. And it is time we had a more proactive

2:15:19 > 2:15:22response to support the situation. And that is why I am supporting this

2:15:22 > 2:15:28bill. It all of our interests to address debt, not just a personal

2:15:28 > 2:15:34problem but a national one. In fact, step change in the cost to the state

2:15:34 > 2:15:38and society of problem debt on top of the personal cost is £8 million.

2:15:38 > 2:15:42So while I applaud the Government for the Bill and the appreciation of

2:15:42 > 2:15:46the need to tackle debt, I also asked that there is a much more

2:15:46 > 2:15:50proactive implementation and approach to ensuring that this bill

2:15:50 > 2:15:58is as effective as it can be.Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is a

2:15:58 > 2:16:02pleasure to follow the honourable member. Unsurprisingly I am going to

2:16:02 > 2:16:07talk about debt later on. I do welcome the thrust of the Bill,

2:16:07 > 2:16:10consulting three bodies into one does make sense. But it does have to

2:16:10 > 2:16:16be well run. Perhaps I'm a little jealous, but I will point out that

2:16:16 > 2:16:19money at my service was criticised over the years, not least in his

2:16:19 > 2:16:24place for its attempt to duplicate the work which was being undertaken

2:16:24 > 2:16:28by the more experienced agencies better known by the public. --

2:16:28 > 2:16:32perhaps I'm a little churlish. Many more money on a fancy website or

2:16:32 > 2:16:36television adverts in 26,000,001 year. That did little to raise its

2:16:36 > 2:16:42profile. After all, apart from me, who remembers what would he say on

2:16:42 > 2:16:47those adverts? I only recall because I use is where the television when

2:16:47 > 2:16:52it was on. The new body has to be later. The thrust of his role has to

2:16:52 > 2:16:59be facilitating the work of others. They for the money has to go. Not

2:16:59 > 2:17:02promoting itself, not in fancy advertisement facilitating other

2:17:02 > 2:17:05people who are already have brand recognition. The front-line delivery

2:17:05 > 2:17:10has to be key. It should not duplicate editing services, and he

2:17:10 > 2:17:16should focus on filling the gaps using the high-quality existing,

2:17:16 > 2:17:18not-for-profit providers. I'm a little alarmed in the recent

2:17:18 > 2:17:23contract around, it did include for-profit providers in there. Now,

2:17:23 > 2:17:28I worked in the debt advice charity when they get contracts and I recall

2:17:28 > 2:17:31the disaster they were during those contracts. And perhaps looking at

2:17:31 > 2:17:36the privatisation of Karelian racially in the problems they have

2:17:36 > 2:17:42had, we should be focusing on those not for privacy --... The citizens

2:17:42 > 2:17:48advice Bureau is going up for its 70th anniversary shortly. 70 years

2:17:48 > 2:17:54of very little funding. We can manage money. Clause 3.10 makes it

2:17:54 > 2:17:59clear the new body needs to work with others in carrying out the

2:17:59 > 2:18:05strategic function. I interpreted this as meaning he should take a

2:18:05 > 2:18:07collaborative approach and I hope this'll be the case. Any standards

2:18:07 > 2:18:10it has put in place should be designed in conjunction with the

2:18:10 > 2:18:15relevant providers in the other bodies. A designed around people's

2:18:15 > 2:18:20needs, those who use the service and deliver the service. What works in

2:18:20 > 2:18:25practise. I have to say the quantity does not always equal quality and

2:18:25 > 2:18:29good outcomes for those people using the service. There should be

2:18:29 > 2:18:34different channels, which need a different funding and people

2:18:34 > 2:18:39sometimes will want to start on one channel and moved to another

2:18:39 > 2:18:42channel. Face-to-face gimme more important but sometimes people need

2:18:42 > 2:18:47that initial contact. -- face-to-face can be more important.

2:18:47 > 2:18:51They used to be a black joke in the bureau where I worked if people

2:18:51 > 2:18:58walking with a carrier bag, that is a debt client there. If you cannot

2:18:58 > 2:19:03get new bills, you are not going to go online. The object of the single

2:19:03 > 2:19:07financial guidance body is to ensure the public have access to good

2:19:07 > 2:19:11quality free and impartial financial guidance, pension advice and debt

2:19:11 > 2:19:16advice. That aim is fine. But if the new body is to work well, we have to

2:19:16 > 2:19:19ensure that the object is in the functions are clear and

2:19:19 > 2:19:25comprehensive. The Government and the governments is robust, and it

2:19:25 > 2:19:29has a robust oversight structure from the Government department to

2:19:29 > 2:19:34which it is responsible. And it does not stray into try to raise

2:19:34 > 2:19:38awareness of itself and conduct its own research. What I want to see

2:19:38 > 2:19:43from this body is a laser like focus on the commissioning high-quality,

2:19:43 > 2:19:48independent services which will help more people avoid financial

2:19:48 > 2:19:52difficulty and debt. Now there were improvements made to the Bill as

2:19:52 > 2:19:56originally drafted in the Lord, and I welcome those. Portable, consumer

2:19:56 > 2:20:04protection function. That is really vital. I do hope the Government will

2:20:04 > 2:20:07not remove that went against a committee, and the same goes for

2:20:07 > 2:20:10cold calling. In the memo does give the new body the power to advise the

2:20:10 > 2:20:12search area state to abandon cold calling for pensioners. I have heard

2:20:12 > 2:20:16enough from across the House to say that should be across the border.

2:20:16 > 2:20:22There is a strength of feeling that this cold calling is not helping

2:20:22 > 2:20:27consumers or anyone else, actually, the other people. Now I get cold

2:20:27 > 2:20:30called asked me if I have had an accident. I have not had an accident

2:20:30 > 2:20:36for 25 years in my car. Now last week I had one, I got the name of

2:20:36 > 2:20:41the company, I got the telephone number, I reported them to the

2:20:41 > 2:20:45telephone preference service. They still could not find them. It was a

2:20:45 > 2:20:51shell company. That is not good enough. Now to be fair, the Minister

2:20:51 > 2:20:55did listen in the Other Place, the Government introduced its own

2:20:55 > 2:20:58amendment at third reading which added the object of the new body

2:20:58 > 2:21:02that it should bear in mind for people in vulnerable circumstances.

2:21:02 > 2:21:07That is a real move forward. But I believe that it would be good to