01/02/2018

0:00:00 > 0:00:00be done, it ought to be done. I am quite sure the honourable lady's

0:00:00 > 0:00:05point will have been noted by the Treasury bench. There are no further

0:00:05 > 0:00:13points of order. We now come to the backbench motion on baby you'd leave

0:00:13 > 0:00:22for Members of Parliament. Harriet Harman -- baby leave. Can I join in

0:00:22 > 0:00:26wishing you a happy birthday? You honestly do not need to worry about

0:00:26 > 0:00:31numbers. I am 67 and I have discovered that I know a lot more as

0:00:31 > 0:00:35I get older that I did not used to know when I was younger. There is

0:00:35 > 0:00:40nothing wrong with getting older.I would like to thank the honourable

0:00:40 > 0:00:44member for Gateshead and the members of the Backbench Business Committee

0:00:44 > 0:00:48which he chairs for agreeing to the subject of our motion today. As the

0:00:48 > 0:00:52backbench business was one of the things that was introduced when I

0:00:52 > 0:00:56was Leader of the House, I was very glad that when I went before them to

0:00:56 > 0:01:01ask for this, they did not turn me down. I can see the honourable

0:01:01 > 0:01:04member for Basingstoke, the right honourable member, is in her place

0:01:04 > 0:01:13and I would like to thank her for all the work she has done on this

0:01:13 > 0:01:15issue. Very much a joint enterprise between her and me on this. I cannot

0:01:15 > 0:01:20speak highly enough about her work as chair of the very excellent Women

0:01:20 > 0:01:23and Equalities Committee and I do not usually say good things about

0:01:23 > 0:01:28people who have been in the Cabinet in Tory governments but she really

0:01:28 > 0:01:34has been... She is very important to all of us in that role. I would like

0:01:34 > 0:01:40to thank the other 52 members from all parties that supported this

0:01:40 > 0:01:44application for this motion, right honourable and honourable members,

0:01:44 > 0:01:48honourable friends, on the side of the House, many of whom are here

0:01:48 > 0:01:52today, thank you for attending, and members of the Scottish National

0:01:52 > 0:01:59Party who have been very active and supportive and co-workers on this

0:01:59 > 0:02:03issue, as have the Liberal Democrats, and many honourable

0:02:03 > 0:02:09members on the Tory benches. This is very much a cross-party issue. I am

0:02:09 > 0:02:16very pleased to see that you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the Leader of

0:02:16 > 0:02:20the House is in her place and responding personally to the debate

0:02:20 > 0:02:28in a week that has not been an -- in the week that has been busy, I think

0:02:28 > 0:02:32it is testament to the commitment she has that this issue, along with

0:02:32 > 0:02:38the Shadow Leader of the House. This is something which Mr Speaker's

0:02:38 > 0:02:45reference group has also looked at. This motion, asked the House for

0:02:45 > 0:02:49it's in principle agreement to make arrangements for when a member has a

0:02:49 > 0:02:54baby or adopts a child because at the moment we do not have any such

0:02:54 > 0:03:01arrangements. In this House, we set the rules for parents outside of the

0:03:01 > 0:03:03House having babies or adopting a child and we do that because we

0:03:03 > 0:03:07think it is important for the child and it is important for the parents.

0:03:07 > 0:03:12We do it because we do not want new parents to to have to ask the

0:03:12 > 0:03:16favours but to be clear where they stand, but there is no such system

0:03:16 > 0:03:21for members of this House.I thank my right honourable friend for

0:03:21 > 0:03:25giving way and for bringing forward this important debate. The sheer

0:03:25 > 0:03:30agree with me that as we set the rules for people outside the House

0:03:30 > 0:03:33to take maternity, paternity and shared parental leave, we have a

0:03:33 > 0:03:38system that makes this place less family friendly than most workplaces

0:03:38 > 0:03:48in the UK? -- does she agree with me.She is right. No one wants us to

0:03:48 > 0:03:53be given better conditions than those outside, but we are now

0:03:53 > 0:03:56lagging behind and we are in danger of setting a very bad example. I

0:03:56 > 0:04:02give way.I thank my right honourable friend for giving way. I

0:04:02 > 0:04:06pay tribute to her for bringing this motion to the House but also for her

0:04:06 > 0:04:10work over more than 30 years to advance equality for women in this

0:04:10 > 0:04:19place and the wider world. I visited a girls' secondary school, they

0:04:19 > 0:04:22asked me how it is being a woman in the House of Commons, I mentioned

0:04:22 > 0:04:26there was no maternity leave for women members, there were gasps.

0:04:26 > 0:04:31Which you agree with me, we owe it to a drain oration of young women

0:04:31 > 0:04:35now thinking about their future to make this place somewhere where they

0:04:35 > 0:04:39feel welcome and they feel they have the same rights as every other woman

0:04:39 > 0:04:43in workplaces around the country -- we owe it to a generation of young

0:04:43 > 0:04:48women.She puts it spot on. Erskine May, our Parliamentary rules Bible,

0:04:48 > 0:04:59says absolutely nothing about pregnancy. That is no surprise, no

0:04:59 > 0:05:00surprise at all. LAUGHTER

0:05:00 > 0:05:04It used to be the case that the overwhelming majority of members

0:05:04 > 0:05:10were men and it was not that the men were not parents, it was just that

0:05:10 > 0:05:15they regarded a baby as the sole responsibility of their wives. There

0:05:15 > 0:05:22were hardly any women in this House, and mostly they were older women

0:05:22 > 0:05:26whose children had either grown-up or who had no children. That was

0:05:26 > 0:05:31certainly the case when I had my three children as a young member of

0:05:31 > 0:05:35this House. Then I was the only woman in the House at that time

0:05:35 > 0:05:39having babies, but now things have changed and the sight of growing

0:05:39 > 0:05:44pregnant bumps in our division lobbies is commonplace and

0:05:44 > 0:05:50celebrated on all sides. LAUGHTER

0:05:50 > 0:05:56Speaking of pregnant bumps...I thank my honourable friend for

0:05:56 > 0:05:59making an excellent contribution and speech and I declare my interest as

0:05:59 > 0:06:04one of those members with a growing bump. Does she agree with me that

0:06:04 > 0:06:08this highlights the urgency is by which we have to address this issue?

0:06:08 > 0:06:13I am not the only member currently pregnant. We are working to a

0:06:13 > 0:06:16deadline because babies, it will not stay in there forever, which she

0:06:16 > 0:06:21agree with me?I certainly do and I congratulate and I am looking

0:06:21 > 0:06:25forward to meeting the new arrival. The reason why we are proposing this

0:06:25 > 0:06:31change now is that the House has changed, it has changed profoundly

0:06:31 > 0:06:37in its attitudes and membership. Now many men want and expect to play

0:06:37 > 0:06:44their part with a new baby.I am extremely grateful to my right

0:06:44 > 0:06:49honourable friend. In 1992 when I informed the Chief Whip that my wife

0:06:49 > 0:06:55was going into hospital and that I intended to be at the birth, I was

0:06:55 > 0:07:01told, that is all right, as long as you are here on Monday night to vote

0:07:01 > 0:07:05on my strict matters. My daughter was born on the Sunday and I was

0:07:05 > 0:07:09able to leave the hospital to stay until 2:30am but that dilemma

0:07:09 > 0:07:15applies to men as well.It really did and it was an acceptable then

0:07:15 > 0:07:21and it is even more unacceptable now. I will give way.Which you

0:07:21 > 0:07:25agree with me that it is a crying shame that even though the last

0:07:25 > 0:07:29Labour government introduce shared parental leave, only around 5% of

0:07:29 > 0:07:33fathers take it and I do not think there is any provision in this House

0:07:33 > 0:07:40for new dads to do that?Absolutely. One of the things about this is

0:07:40 > 0:07:44talking to colleagues on all sides of the House, it really is something

0:07:44 > 0:07:49felt as strongly by fathers in this House now as well as mothers and

0:07:49 > 0:07:56that is a real change. It is gratifying to me to see younger men

0:07:56 > 0:08:00who are determined not only to be excellent members of this House but

0:08:00 > 0:08:06also sharing parents and responsible fathers who do not see their baby

0:08:06 > 0:08:11just ask their wife's business, most members' wives work and their

0:08:11 > 0:08:19husbands in the House want to support them. I will give way.Sorry

0:08:19 > 0:08:26to be able not to stay for long, partly for this problem. Can I

0:08:26 > 0:08:29congratulate her on a motion which does not talk about men and women,

0:08:29 > 0:08:36it talks about members? When my wife was elected, my younger son was two.

0:08:36 > 0:08:40The slippery slope, we ought to talk about a staircase, and at some

0:08:40 > 0:08:44stage, if this goes through, what about people hospitalised or have to

0:08:44 > 0:08:51take time off her elderly parents in some extreme emergency?Well, that

0:08:51 > 0:08:54might well be the case in the future, but for the moment, we are

0:08:54 > 0:09:01talking about maternity, paternity and adoption. And we should focus on

0:09:01 > 0:09:06that. Madam Deputy Speaker, I never thought I would see the day when the

0:09:06 > 0:09:13sons of the women's movement arrived in the Scouse, but they are here. -

0:09:13 > 0:09:17Rucker in this House. They want and expect to play pop with a new baby

0:09:17 > 0:09:23and all credit to them -- in this House. They want and expect to play

0:09:23 > 0:09:28a proper role with the new baby. My wife and I had my son, Patrick, two

0:09:28 > 0:09:32weeks before the general election last year, a member told me, loved

0:09:32 > 0:09:38brother for our daughter who is three. My wife is and remains a star

0:09:38 > 0:09:41who like other MPs' partners has to put up with so much because of this

0:09:41 > 0:09:47job and the need to be away from home. I wish I could have had some

0:09:47 > 0:09:51paternity leave. So that at least just after he was born, I could have

0:09:51 > 0:09:55been a great help than I have been. My wife has never complained and

0:09:55 > 0:09:59like others, she got on with it, but she deserved more support than I was

0:09:59 > 0:10:04able to give her and I hope we can fix this for other MPs and I hope

0:10:04 > 0:10:08that is what we will do. Of course, there are more women members than

0:10:08 > 0:10:14ever before, on all sides of the house, over 200, and younger women

0:10:14 > 0:10:18as well. It is a democratic imperative that we have women in

0:10:18 > 0:10:24this House as well as men, to make the House representative of this

0:10:24 > 0:10:27country. It is a biological inevitability that young women will

0:10:27 > 0:10:33have babies. There have already been 17 babies born to women members

0:10:33 > 0:10:39since 2010. I give way.I thank the right honourable lady for giving way

0:10:39 > 0:10:42and I congratulate her on the amazing work she has done on this

0:10:42 > 0:10:47issue and on her speech and will she agree that given that we are

0:10:47 > 0:10:50apparently by definition the gayest parliament in the world and we have

0:10:50 > 0:10:56many LGBT members, there will be many young gay and female members

0:10:56 > 0:11:00who like myself at some point want to have children and it is important

0:11:00 > 0:11:06that this motion supports them as well? Whether it is adoption or

0:11:06 > 0:11:09biological birth.I thank the honourable lady who has been

0:11:09 > 0:11:14unstinting in her support and we have worked together on this. That

0:11:14 > 0:11:18is why I called it baby leave rather than maternity and paternity leave

0:11:18 > 0:11:27and why I talk at about parents and their children. There have been 17

0:11:27 > 0:11:30babies born to women and countless pawn to mail Members of Parliament

0:11:30 > 0:11:40but which we do not know about. -- countless born at two male Members

0:11:40 > 0:11:46of Parliament. LAUGHTER

0:11:46 > 0:11:50Madam Deputy Speaker, in the absence of any official recognition of these

0:11:50 > 0:11:56babies being born to members, the way things work currently is that

0:11:56 > 0:12:02women MPs giving birth or male MPs who want time with their baby, they

0:12:02 > 0:12:06asked the whips, and they make an arrangement with the whips on the

0:12:06 > 0:12:09other side. The situation in relation to the whips is nothing

0:12:09 > 0:12:14like it was when I was having the first of our three children 34 years

0:12:14 > 0:12:19ago, when I had to ask for a few weeks off from the whips office when

0:12:19 > 0:12:23most of them thought that a woman should not be in the House of

0:12:23 > 0:12:28Commons, let alone a pregnant woman. I know that attitudes in the whips

0:12:28 > 0:12:32office are completely different to what they were before, but it is

0:12:32 > 0:12:36still the case that each member individually has to ask. We would

0:12:36 > 0:12:40not agree to that happening in any other workplace, and it is in the

0:12:40 > 0:12:50discretion of not just one whips office but two to get...Both whips

0:12:50 > 0:12:56offices have to agree. I speak as a whip, SNP work, our party does not

0:12:56 > 0:12:59take part in pairings, I commend what has been brought forward today

0:12:59 > 0:13:03because I am uncomfortable with it, to have to go through a pairing

0:13:03 > 0:13:09arrangement. I support what she is saying.That is a really important

0:13:09 > 0:13:13point and I hope we can think of some arrangements that can be made

0:13:13 > 0:13:21until such time as we zoom in this process through to deal with the

0:13:21 > 0:13:25issue of honourable members from the SNP. Granting or with holding a pair

0:13:25 > 0:13:28is an important role for the opposition whips office and no one

0:13:28 > 0:13:33can accuse me of not knowing the importance of fighting in opposition

0:13:33 > 0:13:38because tragically, that is what I have been doing for 20 years of my

0:13:38 > 0:13:42parliamentary life. But a woman giving birth should not be a matter

0:13:42 > 0:13:47of wrangling between whips office is or an opportunity to take advantage

0:13:47 > 0:13:53over the Government, however much they would deserve it. I give way.

0:13:53 > 0:14:01I congratulate you on securing this debate. Would you agree with me that

0:14:01 > 0:14:07the Parliamentary report into six and 16 says that we must accommodate

0:14:07 > 0:14:15facilitate a project member and co-parent. Particularly of limits,

0:14:15 > 0:14:20this change being sorted is really long overdue.I think the honourable

0:14:20 > 0:14:24Lady makes a very good point. That the good Parliament report also

0:14:24 > 0:14:28reports on all the Parliaments around the world how in their own

0:14:28 > 0:14:33way have started to do with this. This Madam Deputy Speaker is not

0:14:33 > 0:14:37just a matter for the wishes of parents. It is about the rights of

0:14:37 > 0:14:43our constituents. When an MP is paired, it is recorded that they

0:14:43 > 0:14:53simply have not voted. I'll give way.Thank you for giving way. The

0:14:53 > 0:14:56negotiation between whips is important in other circumstances,

0:14:56 > 0:14:59but I am sure there are many women in this House who take time off to

0:14:59 > 0:15:05be with their babies during the first two weeks want to practise

0:15:05 > 0:15:15representing their constituencies.I think she is absolutely right on

0:15:15 > 0:15:22this. Why should that constituencies lose the right for the voting -- for

0:15:22 > 0:15:26the vote in their name to be cast because they're MP is having a baby?

0:15:26 > 0:15:30Madam Deputy Speaker, when you are in a birthing pool, you cannot be

0:15:30 > 0:15:40voting. But your constituency has a right to have its voice heard.I

0:15:40 > 0:15:47thank you for giving way. Further to the important part, mothers and

0:15:47 > 0:15:51fathers that aren't able to be here when they are looking after their

0:15:51 > 0:16:01children, I note it registers the fact that I have just voted... Does

0:16:01 > 0:16:05she concur with me that something should be rectified without websites

0:16:05 > 0:16:09reflect best fact that parents aren't here because they are looking

0:16:09 > 0:16:15after the children?I think she makes a very important point.

0:16:15 > 0:16:20Actually, we do need to do this for defence of reason because people,

0:16:20 > 0:16:25women who were off having babies or men who are off with their newborn

0:16:25 > 0:16:28babies, they are criticised and therefore that is wrong. I think it

0:16:28 > 0:16:35is even more important than that. It is actually our constituencies

0:16:35 > 0:16:43should have their voices heard.I thank you for giving away and all

0:16:43 > 0:16:49the work that you have done on these important issues. I am responsible

0:16:49 > 0:16:55for two of the 17 babies that have been born since 2010. When my first

0:16:55 > 0:17:00child was born, almost five years ago, one of the campaigning

0:17:00 > 0:17:03organisations who e-mails constituencies about votes, e-mailed

0:17:03 > 0:17:07my constituents is to say that I hadn't bothered to turn up to a

0:17:07 > 0:17:09vote. I would have liked to have turned up to vote out all those

0:17:09 > 0:17:14issues, but with a very young baby, that is impossible. And that needs

0:17:14 > 0:17:18to be rectified as well. In the minds of our constituency, we are

0:17:18 > 0:17:22not there, we are absent, we are not representing them. But we are doing

0:17:22 > 0:17:27very important work at home.She is absolutely right on this. It chimes

0:17:27 > 0:17:34very much with what another one of my friend said, she says as a mother

0:17:34 > 0:17:42of four, she thinks just because women are having babies, that should

0:17:42 > 0:17:46not mean that their constituents are not represented by their MP casting

0:17:46 > 0:17:55their vote. My honourable friend new son was only 35 years old when they

0:17:55 > 0:18:02had a crucial vote on Brexit and I know this is an issue for you.

0:18:02 > 0:18:12Hours? Did I say Dave? You said years. Sorry. He was only 35 hours

0:18:12 > 0:18:18old when we have the crucial Brexit vote. His wife, Nicki, had had an

0:18:18 > 0:18:22early induction because of her pregnancy being high risk. He says

0:18:22 > 0:18:26that with that vote that he knew was fixed, coming up, but his wife in

0:18:26 > 0:18:37labour, that it actually. It actually put his fundamental role as

0:18:37 > 0:18:41an MP against his fundamental role as a man, husband and a father. He

0:18:41 > 0:18:48it bought brought an edge to the delivery room when she says is

0:18:48 > 0:18:53unhealthy. He says, surely, it is easier to move Parliament then to

0:18:53 > 0:18:57hold back the majestic and existential forces of the arrival of

0:18:57 > 0:19:00new life. Well, let's show that we can actually manage to move

0:19:00 > 0:19:06Parliament. The trouble is that even as my right honourable friend said,

0:19:06 > 0:19:10the trouble is that even when you are paired, people outside this

0:19:10 > 0:19:15House don't understand pairing. They just see that they're MP has not

0:19:15 > 0:19:20voted. Social media campaigns, which my honourable friend mentioned,

0:19:20 > 0:19:23criticised MPs who have not voted on important issues unaware that they

0:19:23 > 0:19:28are paired because of childbirth. They get criticised in newspapers

0:19:28 > 0:19:38who run voting league tables. We all know that a hyperactive MP in this

0:19:38 > 0:19:44House featured at number two in the sons list of Britain cos laziest

0:19:44 > 0:19:51MPs. We cannot go on like this. Point is that members...I apologise

0:19:51 > 0:19:58for intervening yet again. I have been responsible for the latest of

0:19:58 > 0:20:03the children being born. I was criticised by a Sunday paper, I am

0:20:03 > 0:20:07not going to name them, when I ran up the political editor, he very

0:20:07 > 0:20:13kindly took my name off the story. That rated me as a second-worst MP

0:20:13 > 0:20:16in this current Parliament. And they did not mention that I had been on

0:20:16 > 0:20:22maternity leave the election.I think that what we need is for you

0:20:22 > 0:20:31to be able to cast your constituencies vote by proxy. The

0:20:31 > 0:20:36point is, that is what the proposal before the House will do. What it

0:20:36 > 0:20:40puts to the House is that we should it agree in principle that members

0:20:40 > 0:20:44should be allowed to choose another member to vote by proxy in the

0:20:44 > 0:20:47division lobby when they have had a new baby or adopted a child. If

0:20:47 > 0:20:51there is an agreement to this in principle, there is then many issues

0:20:51 > 0:20:56of implementation that would have to be considered. Other Parliaments, as

0:20:56 > 0:21:01the good Parliament a port to Mac report make clear, made arrangements

0:21:01 > 0:21:04for baby leave, but we would need to do it in a way that fits with our

0:21:04 > 0:21:09culture and our processes. Another member is rightly concerned that any

0:21:09 > 0:21:16change might have unintended consequences. We rightly jealously

0:21:16 > 0:21:20guard the rules of our democracy. Can I just reassure honourable

0:21:20 > 0:21:24members on a number of matters? The resolution before the House today is

0:21:24 > 0:21:29not that a member would be required to apply for a proxy vote, but that

0:21:29 > 0:21:34they would be able to do so if they chose. Those who want to take no

0:21:34 > 0:21:38leave or to ask for a beer, would be perfectly free to do so as they are

0:21:38 > 0:21:43now. It would not affect pay, which is matter for itself who have

0:21:43 > 0:21:48assured me in writing that how we vote in this House is a matter for

0:21:48 > 0:21:52us not for them. And they would not regard any change in voting as a

0:21:52 > 0:21:56matter which would affect pay in any way. That is just not an issue. It

0:21:56 > 0:22:01would not be open to abuse because whether you have had a baby or

0:22:01 > 0:22:05adopted a child, is not a question of subjective judgement. It is a

0:22:05 > 0:22:12matter of fact. It will be evident that I am not moving this motion as

0:22:12 > 0:22:19a matter of self interest. It is too late for that. 30 years too late. My

0:22:19 > 0:22:24children are already grown up. But I want this for the younger members

0:22:24 > 0:22:31and the future parents in this House. I give way.I am grateful for

0:22:31 > 0:22:38you to giving away. Also happy birthday for me. She has talked

0:22:38 > 0:22:44about her own experiences and she was very fortunate to have a good

0:22:44 > 0:22:49person by her side. She is also talked about pairing. In personal

0:22:49 > 0:22:56life, not everyone is paired. As the chair for single-parent families, is

0:22:56 > 0:23:02she aware that this is an increasingly common form? It is 51%

0:23:02 > 0:23:08in London constituencies. I think 303,600 in my own constituency.

0:23:08 > 0:23:12These problems are exacerbated further for single-parent and could

0:23:12 > 0:23:25she encourage...Just before you answer. The intervention, I have no

0:23:25 > 0:23:31wish what's... Whatsoever to curtail debate which is an excellent debate

0:23:31 > 0:23:35on an important subject. I would draw to your attention that while

0:23:35 > 0:23:38you are absolutely correct, of course to take that into mentioned,

0:23:38 > 0:23:44there is much to be said, I have a great many people who want to speak

0:23:44 > 0:23:50and we don't have a huge amount of time.I withdraw my comments to a

0:23:50 > 0:23:57close. In the centenary year, a hundred years after women first won

0:23:57 > 0:24:01the right to stand for Parliament, I hope that we will agree this motion

0:24:01 > 0:24:05and that the procedure will be looked expeditiously. We have not

0:24:05 > 0:24:10got all the time of the world. At least two more Parliament. Babies

0:24:10 > 0:24:17are in the pipeline. There is one woman who is on with her second, and

0:24:17 > 0:24:22my honourable friend the Member for Lancaster have just spoken. They are

0:24:22 > 0:24:26both expecting. While we tell, nature is taking its course, so

0:24:26 > 0:24:32let's agree this and let's get on with it.The question is on the

0:24:32 > 0:24:39order paper.Thank you, can I echo the good wishes on your birthday. Of

0:24:39 > 0:24:45course, this isn't issue that you have a lot of first-hand knowledge

0:24:45 > 0:24:48about as well. I know you are not able to participate in the debate

0:24:48 > 0:24:53today. I am sure you will be sitting there thinking fondly of your own

0:24:53 > 0:24:56experiences being a pregnant member of Parliament and your wonderful son

0:24:56 > 0:25:07who I have had the pleasure of meeting on a number of occasions.

0:25:07 > 0:25:10She has characterises as joint enterprise. I am not sure whether it

0:25:10 > 0:25:14is the sort of joint enterprise that we have talked about in the legal

0:25:14 > 0:25:18sense. That would be a crime were more than one person is involved.

0:25:18 > 0:25:23But I understand the point that she is making. This has to be a joint

0:25:23 > 0:25:26enterprise. If it is going to be successful. I sense from the

0:25:26 > 0:25:30goodwill that we have already heard here that that joint enterprise will

0:25:30 > 0:25:40be a positive thing. I would like to pay tribute to her. As mother of the

0:25:40 > 0:25:43House who has done so much to set the tone around these issues over

0:25:43 > 0:25:49many, many years. I would also like to pay tribute to those who perhaps

0:25:49 > 0:25:53rolled the pitch on this and made it easier for us to bring this debate

0:25:53 > 0:25:59forward today. Professor Sarah Charles has already been mentioned

0:25:59 > 0:26:02and her work really has been a foundation in much of the

0:26:02 > 0:26:08modernisation we are talking about. Mr Speaker if he were here, I would

0:26:08 > 0:26:13think him as well, again he has set the tone. But also can I just pay

0:26:13 > 0:26:20tribute to my right honourable friend the Leader of the House? He

0:26:20 > 0:26:23is doing a sterling job of making sure that this place can be a modern

0:26:23 > 0:26:29place for us all to work in. And that is important not just for our

0:26:29 > 0:26:35staff but for our members as well. The select committee that I have the

0:26:35 > 0:26:39pleasure you wood pleasure of sharing and others really been

0:26:39 > 0:26:47instrumental in selling the seeds of change. Of course I will give way.

0:26:47 > 0:27:00Thank you for giving way. But to say how important this debate is. How it

0:27:00 > 0:27:08is rooted in room evidence the importance of bringing this House in

0:27:08 > 0:27:13line with policies in other workplaces were absolutely set the

0:27:13 > 0:27:17right tone and precedents for their future particularly in this week,

0:27:17 > 0:27:27when we will be celebrating 100 years since women got the vote.She

0:27:27 > 0:27:31is absolutely right. I think we are uncovering some important ways this

0:27:31 > 0:27:35place is changing and I hope we are identifying ways that need to

0:27:35 > 0:27:40continue to change in the future. It is a great pleasure to work with her

0:27:40 > 0:27:45on that. Being a member of Parliament is a unique position, it

0:27:45 > 0:27:49is a unique honour and a unique responsibility that requires

0:27:49 > 0:27:54complete commitment, but that cannot mean that only those without care

0:27:54 > 0:27:58and responsible news can apply. Indeed, it is that experience that

0:27:58 > 0:28:03we can have as carers that can make us much better members of

0:28:03 > 0:28:06Parliament. That is why I wholeheartedly support this motion

0:28:06 > 0:28:15in its own right.

0:28:15 > 0:28:23She talks about... I want to raise another issue in chairing the force

0:28:23 > 0:28:26that society looking at representation of women in local

0:28:26 > 0:28:30government and it was shocking to discover there that only 2% of local

0:28:30 > 0:28:37authorities have maternity leave policies in place. -- the Fawcett

0:28:37 > 0:28:43Society. The number of women councillors in jobs with babies had

0:28:43 > 0:28:51been sacked. All of us as politicians of political parties

0:28:51 > 0:28:54ought to engage with colleagues in local government to secure the

0:28:54 > 0:28:59necessary changes there to have proper representation of women?The

0:28:59 > 0:29:03right honourable lady is absolutely right, we need to have more women at

0:29:03 > 0:29:10every level of our democratic process. In Basingstoke, my

0:29:10 > 0:29:14constituency, I have a phenomenal team of women, nine out of the 14

0:29:14 > 0:29:19councillors are women and I think that it is even more astonishing

0:29:19 > 0:29:24when I see that a number of them are very young women with very young

0:29:24 > 0:29:28children and I think others should be looking at what is happening in

0:29:28 > 0:29:32councils like mine in Basingstoke to encourage that so that we can see

0:29:32 > 0:29:35more young women coming forward and not seeing this incompatible with

0:29:35 > 0:29:41having a young family. Of course, and then I might make progress.I

0:29:41 > 0:29:45thanked the most right honourable members for bringing this debate and

0:29:45 > 0:29:48the honourable member from Basingstoke makes an important point

0:29:48 > 0:29:53about local government. 23 and 25 years ago, I gave birth to my

0:29:53 > 0:29:59children. I was a senior councillor in Hounslow. Although it was

0:29:59 > 0:30:02difficult, there are two fundamental differences between local government

0:30:02 > 0:30:07and this place. You are near to home and the other is the voting, the

0:30:07 > 0:30:13times you have to vote and be recorded as voting, they are

0:30:13 > 0:30:16measured and occasional. And this place is a very different place for

0:30:16 > 0:30:20both of those reasons.The right honourable lady who used to be a

0:30:20 > 0:30:25member of my committee and I know her well and I have worked with her,

0:30:25 > 0:30:28she is raising something I will touch on later in my remarks. Whilst

0:30:28 > 0:30:32I think the motion before us today is really important, there are other

0:30:32 > 0:30:35aspects of this place which need to be thought about again if we are

0:30:35 > 0:30:39going to make this work for everybody, regardless of their

0:30:39 > 0:30:44caring responsibilities. I will make a great deal of progress now so that

0:30:44 > 0:30:50you do not have to remind me we are short on time, Madam Deputy Speaker.

0:30:50 > 0:30:53I wholeheartedly support this motion because a new addition to the family

0:30:53 > 0:30:59is a wonderful thing but it is a huge change. When the rules and

0:30:59 > 0:31:03conventions of this place were established, women had no place

0:31:03 > 0:31:08here, men had little or no role in their children's lives and the rules

0:31:08 > 0:31:13and conventions were not established based on any research or facts, they

0:31:13 > 0:31:19were established to reflect the way men live their lives many years ago.

0:31:19 > 0:31:24Men's lives have changed, women's lives have changed. Women now can

0:31:24 > 0:31:28become MPs and our lives have changed but the demands of having a

0:31:28 > 0:31:33child have not changed. Allowing MPs to take that decision to take some

0:31:33 > 0:31:38time away from this place without disenfranchising their electorate in

0:31:38 > 0:31:43the process is an important step in its own right and I fully support

0:31:43 > 0:31:49that. But I would like to say, it is just one small step. Speaking as a

0:31:49 > 0:31:54mum of three kids, when I came here, my youngest was three, and it was,

0:31:54 > 0:31:58for me, a very easy transition. I had worked full-time before and I

0:31:58 > 0:32:04had the best childcare in the world, grandparents, there to look after my

0:32:04 > 0:32:09children. But not every member of the it has that built in. Not

0:32:09 > 0:32:14everyone is as lucky as I was -- every Member of Parliament. One

0:32:14 > 0:32:18small step in a workplace culture change in Parliament that is long

0:32:18 > 0:32:25overdue. We recognise the importance of workplace culture in the people

0:32:25 > 0:32:29we represent, whether it is the culture at the BBC that has allowed

0:32:29 > 0:32:33women to be underpaid, the culture in Hollywood that allows the likes

0:32:33 > 0:32:38of Harvey Weinstein to thrive, and abuse the people around them, when

0:32:38 > 0:32:46we scrutinise the effectiveness of laws, and we often conclude it is

0:32:46 > 0:32:51culture that needs to change to make those laws work better, we have

0:32:51 > 0:32:55already heard about the example of shared parental leave which was

0:32:55 > 0:32:58introduced by the coalition government and also the right to

0:32:58 > 0:33:02request flexible working. These are things people want but when we do

0:33:02 > 0:33:07the research, the uptake is low because the culture in the workplace

0:33:07 > 0:33:11has not changed to reflect the changes in the law. As well as

0:33:11 > 0:33:15passing laws, I believe we have a duty to influence culture as well.

0:33:15 > 0:33:20That is why we are bringing, my right honourable friend, the Leader

0:33:20 > 0:33:25of the House, that is why they are bringing a new disciplinary process

0:33:25 > 0:33:29around sexual harassment which is so important, and that is why we also

0:33:29 > 0:33:32need to show we understand that culture change is important around

0:33:32 > 0:33:40families too. Not only MPs with new children but MPs with all sorts of

0:33:40 > 0:33:42wide-ranging caring responsibilities, for older

0:33:42 > 0:33:49children, older members of family, as I do, or for disabled members of

0:33:49 > 0:33:54the family too. As we consider, and I hope agreed, with this motion

0:33:54 > 0:33:58today, I hope it is just a short small step we are taking forward and

0:33:58 > 0:34:04that other steps will follow. I would just like to give one

0:34:04 > 0:34:08particular example. The importance of predictability in working life.

0:34:08 > 0:34:14Before I came to this place, I was a director of an advertising agency, a

0:34:14 > 0:34:17very difficult job, challenging, a job I could do because I could

0:34:17 > 0:34:21determine the way my working life worked for me. It is very difficult

0:34:21 > 0:34:25here to have that level of predictability around foods in

0:34:25 > 0:34:29particular. That is why I would be advocating following this motion

0:34:29 > 0:34:35that we would be looking at issues like voting power to more

0:34:35 > 0:34:39predictability around the way this place works so that people with

0:34:39 > 0:34:43caring responsibilities can better work those responsibilities around

0:34:43 > 0:34:48there overwhelmingly important responsibilities here. For those who

0:34:48 > 0:34:52say introducing baby leave is the thin end of the wedge, I have to

0:34:52 > 0:34:58say, they are right. If it means we showed compassion to a colleague who

0:34:58 > 0:35:04is fighting cancer, show compassion to a colleague having to attend the

0:35:04 > 0:35:08funeral of a close relative, rather than disenfranchising their

0:35:08 > 0:35:13constituents, whilst they are being human beings, we need to make this

0:35:13 > 0:35:19change so that we can actually allow people to get the balance in their

0:35:19 > 0:35:23lives that is so sadly lacking at some points in the Parliamentary

0:35:23 > 0:35:28calendar at the moment. Of course I give way.I thank her for giving way

0:35:28 > 0:35:31and for her very powerful speech and I absolutely support the motion

0:35:31 > 0:35:35before us. I agree that I very much hope this is the thin end of the

0:35:35 > 0:35:39wedge because on the centenary of the representation of the people

0:35:39 > 0:35:43act, we must do more to fix the pipeline issue around encouraging

0:35:43 > 0:35:49more women at a younger age to think about putting themselves forward to

0:35:49 > 0:35:56become Members of Parliament.It is 100 years on since the first woman

0:35:56 > 0:36:01sat in this place but it can for many of us feel like we are still

0:36:01 > 0:36:04operating in an 18th-century model of work. That is something that

0:36:04 > 0:36:09really does need to change.I give way. I am very grateful. I cannot be

0:36:09 > 0:36:15alone in being a man in this House whose partner has an extremely

0:36:15 > 0:36:21important job of her own. She sits as a Supreme Court judge in France.

0:36:21 > 0:36:26That takes her away from home and I therefore have childcare

0:36:26 > 0:36:29responsibilities too and I have one-year-old baby and she does not

0:36:29 > 0:36:35look after herself funnily enough. I wonder whether when we are talking

0:36:35 > 0:36:38about equality, absolutely understand that emphasis on women's

0:36:38 > 0:36:42rights, of course, but this is a human rights, it is about anybody

0:36:42 > 0:36:46who has a responsibility to care for a child or indeed a responsibility

0:36:46 > 0:36:51to care for an adult or has religious obligations that may

0:36:51 > 0:36:56indeed keep them away in different ways.And I think my honourable

0:36:56 > 0:37:01friend makes a very powerful point. It is important to recognise the way

0:37:01 > 0:37:05that many family lives have changed over the years. That is why it was

0:37:05 > 0:37:10so important to frame this motion about MPs, parents, not about men

0:37:10 > 0:37:17and women. We can all have those sorts of caring responsibilities and

0:37:17 > 0:37:24they are not the sole preserve of anyone gender at this point. It

0:37:24 > 0:37:30would be remiss of me to not acknowledge the extraordinary way

0:37:30 > 0:37:36that the whips department has evolved in my time of being in this

0:37:36 > 0:37:40place, since 2005. I remember some of the conversations I had with

0:37:40 > 0:37:45whips when I first got here and I shudder a little because they did

0:37:45 > 0:37:49not really reflect my 20 years working life beforehand. I am

0:37:49 > 0:37:52looking particularly admirable friend and neighbour who was sitting

0:37:52 > 0:37:57on the front bench, but also my other honourable friend, the member

0:37:57 > 0:38:01for Bury St Edmunds, both of whom were also members of my select

0:38:01 > 0:38:07committee, and I know that the whips office is in extraordinarily good

0:38:07 > 0:38:13hands, but we cannot just let this be something which we put to chance

0:38:13 > 0:38:17and we do need to have better rules to give people certainty about what

0:38:17 > 0:38:25they can expect. MPs have a duty to keep our democracy healthy. I do not

0:38:25 > 0:38:30believe MPs can never be treated as employees. Our role demands that we

0:38:30 > 0:38:39are never going to really be subject to a contract. Our contract with the

0:38:39 > 0:38:42people we represent and they demonstrate their views each time

0:38:42 > 0:38:46there is an election. What we can do is modernise the culture of this

0:38:46 > 0:38:51place to reflect the 21st century, not the 18th-century. For our

0:38:51 > 0:38:56employees, of course, those who work for us, but also to those members

0:38:56 > 0:39:01sitting here today and for those who will come after us, to make this an

0:39:01 > 0:39:06attractive place for a more diverse range of people who want to become

0:39:06 > 0:39:11Members of Parliament. Today is one small step, allowing new parents

0:39:11 > 0:39:14some time away from this place to cope with the demands of a new

0:39:14 > 0:39:19family member, and it is long overdue. But following this motion,

0:39:19 > 0:39:22we do need to press forward further with modernisation, particularly

0:39:22 > 0:39:28around the scheduling of this place. I lack of consistency and certainty

0:39:28 > 0:39:34is one issue raised with me, not only because it makes us less

0:39:34 > 0:39:39productive, it also makes us less able to balance our family life too

0:39:39 > 0:39:46-- a lack of consistency. I respectfully disagree with people

0:39:46 > 0:39:49who think this change today is wrong. The health of our democracy

0:39:49 > 0:39:53depends on the strength of the House of Commons and we are strengthened

0:39:53 > 0:39:58if we are truly representative of the community is making up the UK.

0:39:58 > 0:40:02Introducing baby leave for members of Parliament who need it and want

0:40:02 > 0:40:05it is just one small step in opening up membership of this place to more

0:40:05 > 0:40:11people. And seeing fewer people choosing to leave before their time

0:40:11 > 0:40:15because life as an MP is incompatible with the responsibility

0:40:15 > 0:40:20of being a parent. I hope this motion gets the full agreement of

0:40:20 > 0:40:24the House today. Above all, I hope that the procedure committee looks

0:40:24 > 0:40:30at it swiftly so that those members here today with imminent arrivals

0:40:30 > 0:40:36can look forward to their pregnancies and the birth without a

0:40:36 > 0:40:43question as to how they will deal with it with the whips.Order. This

0:40:43 > 0:40:48debate has to finish just before 3pm. Therefore, we will have a time

0:40:48 > 0:40:58limit now of about eight minutes. No, not about. The debate has to

0:40:58 > 0:41:05finish at about three o'clock. But the time limit is exactly eight

0:41:05 > 0:41:09minutes. Sorry, I had in my mind there the terror that I felt the day

0:41:09 > 0:41:12I told the Chief Whip I was going to have a baby.

0:41:12 > 0:41:16LAUGHTER It had only happened once before in

0:41:16 > 0:41:21the Conservative Party. It was causing palpitations again. Exactly

0:41:21 > 0:41:28eight minutes. Emma Reynolds.Thank you. I will keep to exactly eight

0:41:28 > 0:41:31minutes. I want to thank the right honourable lady for her contribution

0:41:31 > 0:41:35which I found to be incredibly thoughtful and I agree with every

0:41:35 > 0:41:40single word she said. I want to pay particular special tribute to my

0:41:40 > 0:41:45right honourable friend, for Camberwell in Peckham. Not only for

0:41:45 > 0:41:50bringing forward these proposals today and doing so much work on this

0:41:50 > 0:41:54issue, but for all the work she has done since she joined this House

0:41:54 > 0:41:58many years ago, I do not know how many, but I know she is the mother

0:41:58 > 0:42:04of the House, all the work she has done to make sure we have greater

0:42:04 > 0:42:07gender equality in our country and our Parliament and we have made huge

0:42:07 > 0:42:12progress thanks to her work. But as today's motion demonstrates, we

0:42:12 > 0:42:19still have quite some way to go. I want to just recount what happened

0:42:19 > 0:42:24in 2017. My husband and I were expecting a baby in April. We were

0:42:24 > 0:42:32hoping for a quiet year on the work front, let's say. We thought, this

0:42:32 > 0:42:36is great, the bump will be around three years old at the time of the

0:42:36 > 0:42:44next election because it seemed the Prime Minister was absolutely

0:42:44 > 0:42:47determined to really respect the Fixed-term Parliaments Act. I gave

0:42:47 > 0:42:54birth at 2am on Good Friday. As those of you who have been there

0:42:54 > 0:42:58before me know, it is a very physically demanding and tiring

0:42:58 > 0:43:04process. Four days later, I was lying on my bed at home in the

0:43:04 > 0:43:09morning, breast-feeding baby Theo, and my mother actually used a few

0:43:09 > 0:43:14expletives looking at her phone and I said, what has happened? She said,

0:43:14 > 0:43:19the Prime Minister has called an election. I said, no, that can't be

0:43:19 > 0:43:24right. She was adamant she would not. Unlike some of you here who

0:43:24 > 0:43:28were watching the podium and noticing there were not... There was

0:43:28 > 0:43:31not any writing. I did not know she was making a statement. My husband

0:43:31 > 0:43:38came in and my mum said, Richard, there is going to be an election. He

0:43:38 > 0:43:43said, you have to check, I don't believe it. We were in a state of

0:43:43 > 0:43:47disbelief for quite some hours, days and weeks, actually. We wondered how

0:43:47 > 0:43:50on earth we would cope with the newborn, this brand-new little

0:43:50 > 0:43:54person we had in our lives who we've already struggling to cope with in

0:43:54 > 0:43:59the night because he was up most of the night and we had to do that and

0:43:59 > 0:44:04organise an election campaign as well.

0:44:04 > 0:44:12I want to think the vast majority of my constituents who were so

0:44:12 > 0:44:17supportive and I lost can't of the number of messages and cards and the

0:44:17 > 0:44:20number of people who were on the doorstep or asked about how I was

0:44:20 > 0:44:27and how my child was getting on. I have to say, there were a a small

0:44:27 > 0:44:30handful of people who said to me that once the election was called,

0:44:30 > 0:44:34they assumed that I would not stand again. And I politely said to them,

0:44:34 > 0:44:40would you ask the same question if my husband was the MP? And the

0:44:40 > 0:44:44answer did not come back because the answer was obvious. Of course they

0:44:44 > 0:44:49would not. I believe that new mums a new dads in this place should have

0:44:49 > 0:44:54the same rights that we have a legislative four for men and women

0:44:54 > 0:44:59across our country. I cannot believe we are dragging our feet on this

0:44:59 > 0:45:04what the meant when we have made such market improvement.I enjoyed

0:45:04 > 0:45:10listening to her experiences. I've just gone on to the procedure

0:45:10 > 0:45:13committee and attended for the first time yesterday and it is on our

0:45:13 > 0:45:18agenda to have investigated the Mac investigation and make a report on

0:45:18 > 0:45:24this. And I think that I would just like I wanted to put it on record

0:45:24 > 0:45:29that we are going to be looking at that.I urge them to do it quickly

0:45:29 > 0:45:33because there aren't various colleagues who have a very tight

0:45:33 > 0:45:37deadline that you should be working to that we have already discussed. I

0:45:37 > 0:45:42want to put on record my thanks to my husband's employer because as

0:45:42 > 0:45:47members of this House will know, new dads do have a right to share

0:45:47 > 0:45:51parental leave, but they have to give several weeks notice. And it

0:45:51 > 0:45:56happens to be eight weeks notice, which is about the same time as an

0:45:56 > 0:46:00election campaign. Thankfully his employer agreed to bring his

0:46:00 > 0:46:04parental leave forward. Because had my husband and working full-time at

0:46:04 > 0:46:08the same time is me running the campaign, I am not sure we would

0:46:08 > 0:46:13have been able to cope. I am really grateful to them for doing that. I

0:46:13 > 0:46:20would encourage new dads to take up that right. I do think that only 5%

0:46:20 > 0:46:26at the moment to take up that right. After the election and we did get

0:46:26 > 0:46:36through. And I did start... A week after I gave birth, a whole bunch of

0:46:36 > 0:46:42people came to help. And someone in the Sunday paper came with

0:46:42 > 0:46:56photographers. My baby Pete everywhere. And anyway. Now I an

0:46:56 > 0:47:05experienced in it. I was having this meeting to... They got a photo of me

0:47:05 > 0:47:11in the baby and I was very tired and eggs -- they insisted on driving me

0:47:11 > 0:47:19on the campaign trail. I didn't want to because I was very tired. I

0:47:19 > 0:47:26should have gone home, and I did suffer from it physically. Then I

0:47:26 > 0:47:32had a rest. We had all the deadlines for letters and leaflets and as much

0:47:32 > 0:47:37stuff as you can basically get out. Especially given it was such a short

0:47:37 > 0:47:46campaign.I think her for giving way. What she just said made me feel

0:47:46 > 0:47:49so uncomfortable because it is actually illegal to work for two

0:47:49 > 0:47:54weeks after giving birth. The situation she describes is just

0:47:54 > 0:47:58intolerable. We really do have to do something about this.I admit I

0:47:58 > 0:48:03broke the law and I should not have. I must say the motion before us

0:48:03 > 0:48:08today would not have helped me in my situation and there were other

0:48:08 > 0:48:12members here who were in the same situation. There were three new mums

0:48:12 > 0:48:17with election was called. I suspect there isn't anything that can be

0:48:17 > 0:48:21done when this happens. We were very very unlucky with the timing. I do

0:48:21 > 0:48:25think there is something we can do for after that. That is what I am

0:48:25 > 0:48:29coming on too now. We had the election, I retain my seat, but the

0:48:29 > 0:48:36weeks after that, I was required to come in in swearing or I don't get

0:48:36 > 0:48:41paid. I was required to come in and vote on the Queen's speech. I was

0:48:41 > 0:48:44asked to come in to vote on and select committee chairs which I

0:48:44 > 0:48:49really want to do. Because they've usually indoor for five years, but

0:48:49 > 0:48:52let's see what happens. I did not have a say on that. I infect

0:48:52 > 0:49:00e-mailed Mr Speaker cut -- I in fact e-mailed Mr Speaker but there wasn't

0:49:00 > 0:49:06much he could do on this. I think it is only right that I constituents

0:49:06 > 0:49:12are represented in this place and we should have the choice to appoint a

0:49:12 > 0:49:16call into vote on our behalf. I know that some colleagues are

0:49:16 > 0:49:19uncomfortable with this because they would only want to be the ones

0:49:19 > 0:49:26voting and that's why, and I think the right honourable Lady has taken

0:49:26 > 0:49:29this on board, it should be a choice. If you become a new mum or

0:49:29 > 0:49:33dad, you should be able to appoint a proxy for the time that you are on

0:49:33 > 0:49:39leave. I must say I am very hugely grateful to the web's office.

0:49:39 > 0:49:43Particularly my honourable friend who has been so brilliant and

0:49:43 > 0:49:49flexible. Not only after the election when I gave birth, but when

0:49:49 > 0:49:54I was pregnant. It is very tiring coming to this place when you are

0:49:54 > 0:50:02really big. The whip's offices in all seriousness have made a huge

0:50:02 > 0:50:07amount of progress. I have spoken to many colleagues who have had babies,

0:50:07 > 0:50:11ten or 20 years ago and indeed yourself Mattern Deputy Speaker when

0:50:11 > 0:50:18you didn't really have that kind of leave that we have. But we should

0:50:18 > 0:50:22not have to ask for it. This should be our right. And in other

0:50:22 > 0:50:27workplaces you don't have to ask, you have the right to it. We are

0:50:27 > 0:50:32dragging our feet. I just want to echo what was said earlier by one of

0:50:32 > 0:50:40my honourable friends who talked about a website. I e-mailed them

0:50:40 > 0:50:45just before going on maternity leave to see if they would reflect on

0:50:45 > 0:50:50their website the fact that I was going to be on leave. And they sort

0:50:50 > 0:50:56of filed me off. They said we will look at and they didn't do anything.

0:50:56 > 0:51:01And I think they should consider qualifying things on their website.

0:51:01 > 0:51:06Many of us have been criticised by national newspapers and it is not

0:51:06 > 0:51:10right. It damages our reputation, whether they issue an apology or

0:51:10 > 0:51:13not. It is a damage your reputation and we should not be in that

0:51:13 > 0:51:22position. In conclusion, I just want to pay tribute to all the honourable

0:51:22 > 0:51:26members who have gone before me and I want to single out a few people.

0:51:26 > 0:51:37Not only you Madam Deputy Speaker. I want to also pay tribute and say

0:51:37 > 0:51:42things to some other people who weren't... The First Minister to

0:51:42 > 0:51:50give birth in office. I have been inspired by many other colleagues.

0:51:50 > 0:51:54There was one member who had two babies while she was in the Shadow

0:51:54 > 0:52:01Cabinet. Juggling family life and being an MP. I say to young women

0:52:01 > 0:52:16don't be deterred, come in and do it. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.

0:52:16 > 0:52:23My friend famously fought a by election whilst having a child. And

0:52:23 > 0:52:29she was one of the first MPs having a child in this House. She was a

0:52:29 > 0:52:34real example. I want to congratulate her for bringing the work. Since

0:52:34 > 0:52:40then, we have made steady, but I think, literally slow progress as to

0:52:40 > 0:52:46become a child friendly workplace. We now have a on-site nursery. I was

0:52:46 > 0:52:50in the building when it was concreted and it was a site where a

0:52:50 > 0:52:55bar once existed. I think a much improved replacement. As we have

0:52:55 > 0:53:01heard in this debate, there are so many more modernising reforms that

0:53:01 > 0:53:07are desperately needed. I think we need more baby friendly spaces, more

0:53:07 > 0:53:13spaces for buggies, nappy PINS, places to breast-feed. Represent --

0:53:13 > 0:53:20the opportunity that it presents for the diversity of this chamber. The

0:53:20 > 0:53:25example that we can set for the rest of the country. If I can just say, I

0:53:25 > 0:53:31think it is fitting that this issue is discussed today. Since the last

0:53:31 > 0:53:36time to talk date, I've had a baby and as a new mum, I am acutely aware

0:53:36 > 0:53:44for new mums and for women to keep a close eye on their mental health.

0:53:44 > 0:53:56Northeast, forgive me... My BB was just four weeks off when -- my baby

0:53:56 > 0:54:01was just four weeks old when the election was called. It wasn't -- it

0:54:01 > 0:54:16was an incredibly stressful.. Many people will have mental health

0:54:16 > 0:54:23issues. There are many diseases that increase after childbirth. We know

0:54:23 > 0:54:29that one of the triggers to mental health is stress and anxiety in the

0:54:29 > 0:54:33workplace. This is especially true when a mum or dad returns to work

0:54:33 > 0:54:37after the birth of their child. These issues affect people inside

0:54:37 > 0:54:48and outside of this House just why this debate is so important. I have

0:54:48 > 0:54:58two polling -- it is a privilege to stand here for Mike disaster ensues.

0:54:58 > 0:55:05While I was able to keep on with the constituency casework, last June I

0:55:05 > 0:55:12had to leave my constituency and travel to come down to London to

0:55:12 > 0:55:18Parliament. First to swear in and while I am very grateful to the

0:55:18 > 0:55:22whips, I was asked to come in and vote on a couple of occasions. In

0:55:22 > 0:55:27June, when my baby was just three months old and again in September

0:55:27 > 0:55:30for some important votes when she was just five months old. In

0:55:30 > 0:55:35September, I was in the team room with my baby and we were there until

0:55:35 > 0:55:40after ten o'clock at night. Arguably that was not the right place for my

0:55:40 > 0:55:49baby at that time of night. As a breast-feeding mum, all my baby came

0:55:49 > 0:55:53in with me. Colleagues will know it is of huge responsibility looking

0:55:53 > 0:56:02after a tiny human. I was a slummy mummy. It is a challenge some days

0:56:02 > 0:56:06just to take a shower. Let alone to get up and get out of the House, to

0:56:06 > 0:56:12get to the station, to change the baby on the train that is moving at

0:56:12 > 0:56:21a miles an hour. The crying. To get on the tube often using escalator

0:56:21 > 0:56:28stairs because there is no lift. For an important overnight trip which

0:56:28 > 0:56:32for some babies will be the first time they are outside, it can be

0:56:32 > 0:56:39quite traumatic for them. I think the vote on the motion today, proxy

0:56:39 > 0:56:46voting, it is a simple means to count a member's vote without having

0:56:46 > 0:56:51them to pass physically through the voting lobbies. I think that will

0:56:51 > 0:56:55mean that the representative role of any MP can continue without being

0:56:55 > 0:56:59disrupted. It is not only an issue of fairness for the parents, it is a

0:56:59 > 0:57:04matter of fairness for our constituents. As with all the

0:57:04 > 0:57:09representation we make in this House, the work we do on the

0:57:09 > 0:57:13campaigns, the contributions we make for the country, to improve the

0:57:13 > 0:57:17first 1001 days of a child's life, to give children the best start in

0:57:17 > 0:57:23life, when we highlight the importance of attachment, when we

0:57:23 > 0:57:28address the breast-feeding rates that we have in our country, Madam

0:57:28 > 0:57:33Deputy Speaker, we need to lead by example and we need to give

0:57:33 > 0:57:38children, the children of MPs the best start as well. Some people

0:57:38 > 0:57:50might say this is a dangerous leap modernity I have heard that. Proxy

0:57:50 > 0:57:57voting was known here. It records until 1868 lords who were not

0:57:57 > 0:58:01present could vote by proxy. Since then, no attempt has been made to

0:58:01 > 0:58:11suspend the laws to allow the revival of this practise. In the

0:58:11 > 0:58:14comments, proxies were allowed in the mediaeval Parliament. This is

0:58:14 > 0:58:18not a leap in the dark, but in unearthing of a fine old

0:58:18 > 0:58:23Parliamentary tradition.

0:58:23 > 0:58:27To deny our constituents of voice because of this House not

0:58:27 > 0:58:33modernising, it is an affront. Providing new parents with the

0:58:33 > 0:58:37ability to register a vote by a ensures our constituents can still

0:58:37 > 0:58:44be heard. We know the physical arrangements are about to undergo

0:58:44 > 0:58:51huge changes. Our work continues and our democracy in June was. I hope

0:58:51 > 0:58:55that as we contemplate those changes, following yesterday's wrote

0:58:55 > 0:58:59about the refurbishment of the Palace of Westminster, we will focus

0:58:59 > 0:59:04on ways we can continue to become more child friendly and welcoming --

0:59:04 > 0:59:09yesterday's vote. The small but significant changes, so should every

0:59:09 > 0:59:13workplace and every factory, office, there are practical ways to help

0:59:13 > 0:59:16people when parents return to work after having a baby or having

0:59:16 > 0:59:22adopted. I think many stressful situations can be averted through

0:59:22 > 0:59:28small changes and if we are serious about improving the nation's mental

0:59:28 > 0:59:33health, it is an important factor. For over 35 years, the member for

0:59:33 > 0:59:36Camberwell and Peckham has fought for equality and fairness at

0:59:36 > 0:59:39Westminster and in the country. I think proxy voting would be another

0:59:39 > 0:59:44valuable part of honouring the mother of our Parliament's

0:59:44 > 0:59:48continuing contribution to our public life and I sincerely hope the

0:59:48 > 0:59:51House approves this measure and the Speaker will move towards a system

0:59:51 > 0:59:56of proxy voting without delay.We have to reduce the time limit to

0:59:56 > 1:00:05seven minutes. Yvette Cooper.Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. You and I

1:00:05 > 1:00:11had to work out how to hang -- handle pregnancy and Parliament some

1:00:11 > 1:00:16years ago, lovely to have you in the chair. Can I pay tribute to the

1:00:16 > 1:00:22brilliant speeches to my honourable friends, their speeches alone ought

1:00:22 > 1:00:28to persuade everybody, without any doubt, that this is a motion that

1:00:28 > 1:00:34should go through, but also should be very swiftly dealt with by the

1:00:34 > 1:00:38procedure committee? Frankly, it feels like it is a no-brainer. 100

1:00:38 > 1:00:43years since women got the vote, it is frankly an embarrassment that we

1:00:43 > 1:00:50do not have in Parliament a system for maternity, paternity and baby

1:00:50 > 1:00:55leave, that my right honourable friend describes, because if other

1:00:55 > 1:01:01organisations can do it, why can't we? If shops and factories and

1:01:01 > 1:01:05businesses and doctors surgeries and police forces, every other

1:01:05 > 1:01:09organisation manages to find a way of doing it, why on earth can't we?

1:01:09 > 1:01:14Especially when we are the organisation that has told so many

1:01:14 > 1:01:18of those organisations that they have to do it, they have to have

1:01:18 > 1:01:22arrangements for leave, but we cannot sort it out for ourselves. I

1:01:22 > 1:01:26think maternity arrangements are not strong enough across the country. I

1:01:26 > 1:01:32think there is not enough provision, the culture changes still need to

1:01:32 > 1:01:35take place. There are still too many difficulties and obstacles put in

1:01:35 > 1:01:38people's way and I think there is a serious problem about maternity

1:01:38 > 1:01:42discrimination under way in which the law is not enforced or arguably

1:01:42 > 1:01:47is not strong enough to make sure women are not ending up finding

1:01:47 > 1:01:52themselves made redundant or demoted or losing responsibilities when they

1:01:52 > 1:01:57take maternity leave or at the same time, for men, feeling that they

1:01:57 > 1:02:02cannot take paternity leave for fear those things will happen. How can we

1:02:02 > 1:02:06end this House challenge errant employers saying, it is too too

1:02:06 > 1:02:12difficult, we are two special, we cannot possibly provide for people

1:02:12 > 1:02:18having babies, if we do not sort it out ourselves customer that is why I

1:02:18 > 1:02:22am paying tribute to my right honourable friend who has pioneered

1:02:22 > 1:02:27so many of these debates, led the way for so many of us to follow, and

1:02:27 > 1:02:32I know it was much easier for me to be able to take maternity leave as

1:02:32 > 1:02:40an MP but also as a minister because of the support I got, personal

1:02:40 > 1:02:44support as well as leadership shown, by my right honourable friend, and

1:02:44 > 1:02:50it is hugely important she is doing the same still for each generation

1:02:50 > 1:02:54of women and each generation of men as well. I pay tribute too to the

1:02:54 > 1:02:58right honourable member for Basingstoke and the work she has

1:02:58 > 1:03:01done on the women equality select committee to support this and

1:03:01 > 1:03:06promote this. I agree with her that there should be wider reforms,

1:03:06 > 1:03:09across the country, and I know this has support from other parties as

1:03:09 > 1:03:17well. I think given we all know, having a baby is normal, it is why

1:03:17 > 1:03:22we are all here, and Parliament ought to be able to cope with what

1:03:22 > 1:03:28is normal. Parliament ought to show the leadership by making it

1:03:28 > 1:03:33possible. Of course, it will always be a challenge and there will always

1:03:33 > 1:03:37be chaos that comes. For me, a lot of that chaos would come from the

1:03:37 > 1:03:42travelling to and fro with small children, not just with a baby, I am

1:03:42 > 1:03:47a dab hand at changing nappies on a fast moving train, but the potty

1:03:47 > 1:03:52training was more challenging. A few sticky moments with a portable potty

1:03:52 > 1:03:59with a lid on, putting it up on the shelf on a fast moving train. There

1:03:59 > 1:04:03will always be some complexities in having small children and being the

1:04:03 > 1:04:08Members of Parliament and the honour that comes from representing

1:04:08 > 1:04:12constituents, but it ought to be made possible to manage both things

1:04:12 > 1:04:16in a way that too often it isn't. Another honourable friend of ours

1:04:16 > 1:04:23who has since left who had a baby and who was asked to come in for

1:04:23 > 1:04:27votes when the baby was very small and she came also at a time when we

1:04:27 > 1:04:33were not even allowed to take babies through the voting lobbies. We ended

1:04:33 > 1:04:37up in this baby really, we took it in turns to vote and carry the baby

1:04:37 > 1:04:41while she went through to vote and we would each hold the baby, great

1:04:41 > 1:04:45for us, we got to cuddle a tiny baby, but neither seen he there the

1:04:45 > 1:04:52baby should have been here, but it was a tight vote -- neither she or

1:04:52 > 1:04:58the baby. It should not depend on favours, not on special deals and

1:04:58 > 1:05:01arrangements, on the whips, it should just be a very sensible,

1:05:01 > 1:05:06practical arrangement, it should not be beyond the wit of this house when

1:05:06 > 1:05:09we come up with practical arrangements for other organisations

1:05:09 > 1:05:13across the country to come up with a practical way of working that works

1:05:13 > 1:05:20too. To recognise the truth is for any working mum, often for working

1:05:20 > 1:05:25parents, there is always the sense of conflicting guilt and

1:05:25 > 1:05:28responsibility, guilt towards the newborn that you are trying to do

1:05:28 > 1:05:32your constituency casework at the same time, guilt towards

1:05:32 > 1:05:38constituents but you should be in Parliament or at a meeting. The

1:05:38 > 1:05:42sense of responsibility towards Parliament, constituents, baby,

1:05:42 > 1:05:45family, but also, the sense of responsibility towards so many other

1:05:45 > 1:05:49women who also might be finding it hard to take maternity leave to show

1:05:49 > 1:05:54it is possible and we do not have to pretend to be superwomen and pretend

1:05:54 > 1:05:57to have to be able to do it all at once otherwise somehow that means

1:05:57 > 1:06:02you are not doing your job properly. We want people in all walks of life

1:06:02 > 1:06:06to be able to combine parenthood and employment because it is normal,

1:06:06 > 1:06:11that is what we do, and we should end the muddling through and put

1:06:11 > 1:06:15proper arrangements in place. Final thought I would ask the ministers

1:06:15 > 1:06:18also have another look at the arrangements for ministerial

1:06:18 > 1:06:23maternity leave. When I first took ministerial maternity leave 16 years

1:06:23 > 1:06:27ago, we again were muddling through, we attempted to put some

1:06:27 > 1:06:29arrangements in place after that that were more formal, but they

1:06:29 > 1:06:37disappeared. They need to be revised as well. 100th anniversary of women

1:06:37 > 1:06:42getting the vote, what better time to get this sorted and get it sorted

1:06:42 > 1:06:47really, really fast. So that this can be about our next step around

1:06:47 > 1:06:52not just equality for people in this House but for us being able to keep

1:06:52 > 1:06:57being confident pioneers for equality across the country as well.

1:06:57 > 1:07:01Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. A massive honour to follow all of the

1:07:01 > 1:07:08speeches and I feel that honourable friends across the house today and

1:07:08 > 1:07:12in today's debate. I should register not an interest but a total

1:07:12 > 1:07:18disinterest in ever having another child again. This will not benefit

1:07:18 > 1:07:24me, even in the slightest, I could not be more disinterested. Listening

1:07:24 > 1:07:33to the testimony of my friend from Wolverhampton North East, I found it

1:07:33 > 1:07:37to be incredibly moving, pushing the right back at that moment when I was

1:07:37 > 1:07:4222 and a new mum and I was terrified that I was going to break this

1:07:42 > 1:07:50little thing. I have. Expected the things... I will not put you through

1:07:50 > 1:07:52it, Mr Deputy Speaker, but some of the things that happen to a woman's

1:07:52 > 1:07:58body immediately after she has a baby, they are terrifying, you do

1:07:58 > 1:08:04not expect it. I thought my internal organs were falling out.

1:08:04 > 1:08:07LAUGHTER The thought I would have to get up

1:08:07 > 1:08:14and get to the meeting...It is not me that is worried but I am worried

1:08:14 > 1:08:21about the member for Lancaster! LAUGHTER

1:08:21 > 1:08:24Forewarned is forearmed in these situations. You are not dying, that

1:08:24 > 1:08:29is what I would say to my friend from Lancaster. But we all thought

1:08:29 > 1:08:34that we were. The idea I would have to get up at that moment, terrified,

1:08:34 > 1:08:39suffering and fear, real fear for the first time and have to go to a

1:08:39 > 1:08:43constituency member's meeting, it is absolutely horrifying. The thought

1:08:43 > 1:08:51of you doing that at the. Sorry, not you. The thought of the member for

1:08:51 > 1:08:55Wolverhampton North East doing that is absolutely terrifying to me. --

1:08:55 > 1:09:01the thought of you doing that... Sorry, not you. Massive credit to

1:09:01 > 1:09:06all of the women here who have had babies. I want to, because I quite

1:09:06 > 1:09:10like a row, to head off at the pass some of the things I have heard in

1:09:10 > 1:09:14this place about why this could not happen. We're pretty much all here

1:09:14 > 1:09:19to support it today, largely, but I have heard quite a lot of

1:09:19 > 1:09:27mutterings, they are mutterings, they sound like this... Amazing... I

1:09:27 > 1:09:30have heard an awful lot of that and I want to address some of them. Some

1:09:30 > 1:09:35of them from women in this House, I have heard squeamishness about

1:09:35 > 1:09:40wanting to ask for a right because MPs, we are criticised for talking

1:09:40 > 1:09:45about ourselves, very insular, we all know those fake news on the

1:09:45 > 1:09:49internet where they show a really busy Chamber when we are talking

1:09:49 > 1:09:52about our salary and an empty Chamber when we are talking about

1:09:52 > 1:09:59something else, just for the public outside, a total lie. The idea we

1:09:59 > 1:10:03should be asking for something for ourselves, the rightful people here,

1:10:03 > 1:10:07it is totally and utterly acceptable. I have had to talk to

1:10:07 > 1:10:12women in the Labour Party and as the chair of the women's Parliamentary

1:10:12 > 1:10:16Labour Party, to say, I am not going to feel afraid about asking for

1:10:16 > 1:10:21something for you, writes for the people in this building, because if

1:10:21 > 1:10:27I worked... When I worked at Woman's Age, I fought for them to have

1:10:27 > 1:10:31better maternity services for parental leave, no matter where I

1:10:31 > 1:10:35worked, I would be fighting for the women to have better rights and we

1:10:35 > 1:10:39should not be embarrassed about fighting for them here either. I

1:10:39 > 1:10:43want to put that to bed, the idea it is somehow selfish. It isn't, it is

1:10:43 > 1:10:49a right we should be entitled to. The other chuntering I have heard

1:10:49 > 1:10:55some people have mentioned, the thin end of the wedge, where will this

1:10:55 > 1:11:00lead? It will lead to being exactly like every other employer in the

1:11:00 > 1:11:05country. The idea of the thin end of the wedge, as the right honourable

1:11:05 > 1:11:09member for Basingstoke said, the thin end of the wedge where we are

1:11:09 > 1:11:13kind and nice employers, the big end of the wedge is decency and

1:11:13 > 1:11:20humanity, I am more all right with that. We are asking for something a

1:11:20 > 1:11:25very specific reason and when people do not... They say, you cannot have

1:11:25 > 1:11:30other people voting for you, as if they have the divine right of kings

1:11:30 > 1:11:35when we come into this place, our vote is handed to us by God and it

1:11:35 > 1:11:41is so special, nobody else could say how I might feel about fisheries

1:11:41 > 1:11:46industries, it is frankly ridiculous. The idea that people

1:11:46 > 1:11:53feel that they are so special that nobody could ever cast their vote

1:11:53 > 1:11:59for them, I assume they have never followed the whip and deciding

1:11:59 > 1:12:03always exactly what they will vote for all by their little selves, I

1:12:03 > 1:12:09find that highly unlikely. I think Caroline Lucas, the member for

1:12:09 > 1:12:14Brighton Pavilion, she might be the only person who could say that.I

1:12:14 > 1:12:17thank my honourable friend for giving way and making this

1:12:17 > 1:12:20incredibly powerful speech. Would she agreed that the thin end of the

1:12:20 > 1:12:25wedge is not the thin end of erosion of our democracy but a thin end of

1:12:25 > 1:12:30how we balance work and family life when circumstances might be

1:12:30 > 1:12:35unpredictable? Two months ago, my mother had a stroke and while she is

1:12:35 > 1:12:40a lot better now, I was in a position of having to put in place

1:12:40 > 1:12:45with my sisters and brother 24-hour care for someone who we were used to

1:12:45 > 1:12:50caring for us and whilst I know and understand the issues that there

1:12:50 > 1:12:57will be with parents, to have to be in that position and to then

1:12:57 > 1:13:00struggle for the flexibility to manage that alongside being a Member

1:13:00 > 1:13:03of Parliament, it is something that I would want to see us change and

1:13:03 > 1:13:10have the courage to change.I couldn't agree more, as somebody who

1:13:10 > 1:13:15has similarly cared for my own mother when she was dying, the

1:13:15 > 1:13:19amount of pressure that gets put on and I have to say it is largely the

1:13:19 > 1:13:24women in society when you are in the middle and you are caring for

1:13:24 > 1:13:30children and you are also caring for dying relatives or very sick

1:13:30 > 1:13:34relatives, we have got to, as a nation, get better at dealing with

1:13:34 > 1:13:40that, and why not start here? The other issue, I went for lunch with a

1:13:40 > 1:13:47gentleman yesterday, with my husband -- my husband's listening, it wasn't

1:13:47 > 1:13:54him. He talked about how he had hoped to intend to take shared

1:13:54 > 1:13:58parental leave other colleagues has spoken about and he said, as soon as

1:13:58 > 1:14:03I said, OK, I will take three months off, it started to creep in, what if

1:14:03 > 1:14:10my clients get given to somebody else? What if people judge me for

1:14:10 > 1:14:13leaving? I thought, my heart bleeds for you, my tiny violin, that is

1:14:13 > 1:14:20what we have to put up with for ever.

1:14:20 > 1:14:28Because I have lived that life. The truth of the matter is is that we

1:14:28 > 1:14:32have got to make sure that when we make these changes that it is not

1:14:32 > 1:14:39only the women in this building that take this leave. And that the man in

1:14:39 > 1:14:44this building take it as well. Frankly, I think some of the men in

1:14:44 > 1:14:49this building and some of the backtalk that I have heard when I

1:14:49 > 1:14:57have talked about this should be ashamed of bragging about being here

1:14:57 > 1:15:01moments when their baby were born. For standing up and saying and

1:15:01 > 1:15:09committees, point of order, my wife just had a baby. Point of order, I

1:15:09 > 1:15:12divorce you if you are my husband. There is one plays a man should be

1:15:12 > 1:15:20when their baby is born and that is by the side of their partner. And

1:15:20 > 1:15:24that, I think, in this place, we have got to say, this is not about

1:15:24 > 1:15:28the women getting something better. This is about the parents getting

1:15:28 > 1:15:32something better. Because we have got to lead by example. And I know

1:15:32 > 1:15:37just not for the Member for Wolverhampton from Northeast. There

1:15:37 > 1:15:41are husbands in this building who are starting to take that leaves and

1:15:41 > 1:15:45we have got to stand as an example to that. So, basically when this

1:15:45 > 1:15:55comes in, I am coming in for you. To the men in his house to take it.

1:15:55 > 1:16:03Thank you for calling this important debate. It is very important for me

1:16:03 > 1:16:08to be here because I did have a baby a year and a half ago. As a sitting

1:16:08 > 1:16:13MP. While I will not go into detail about what happened to my insides...

1:16:13 > 1:16:18LAUGHTER I do want to talk a little bit about

1:16:18 > 1:16:23the impact of the pregnancy and the birth on me. I won't go into

1:16:23 > 1:16:28details, but I did say -- I would say I had a 40 hour long labour

1:16:28 > 1:16:33which resulted in an emergency C-section. After that, I got an

1:16:33 > 1:16:41infection and so did the baby. I was looked after for nine days, even

1:16:41 > 1:16:46when I was on the hospital bed, I had to do e-mails and I had to sign

1:16:46 > 1:16:49things offer my office simply because there was no one else to do

1:16:49 > 1:16:52it and I could not really nominate someone to take care of crucial

1:16:52 > 1:16:57matters. And there were some crucial matters which I will elaborate in a

1:16:57 > 1:17:04moment. I am not describing this details because I want sympathy I'm

1:17:04 > 1:17:07doing it because before I had a child, I did not quite realise the

1:17:07 > 1:17:14physical impact childbirth has on your body. I have been around

1:17:14 > 1:17:17children and babies, but I still did not realise quite what would happen

1:17:17 > 1:17:23to your body when you went through a 40 hour ordeal in the way that I did

1:17:23 > 1:17:25and after the emergency C-section where I physically could not move

1:17:25 > 1:17:29from the bed and I had to ask everyone for help which is not easy

1:17:29 > 1:17:36when I'm used to doing for myself. It was not easy, but because I was

1:17:36 > 1:17:40in a seat that had been a very marginal seat, the lady that I had

1:17:40 > 1:17:45taken over from only one deceived by 42 votes, I had only won it by just

1:17:45 > 1:17:49over a thousand votes. I did not feel like I could look like my

1:17:49 > 1:17:52constituents. I came back to work very quickly afterwards. As a result

1:17:52 > 1:17:59because my body did not recover, I developed a very terrible infection.

1:17:59 > 1:18:05And anyone who has had disinfection knows what it does to your body. I

1:18:05 > 1:18:09went to my GP and I told him that I was overworked and had come back to

1:18:09 > 1:18:13work very early. In my sleep deprived state I knew I had to do

1:18:13 > 1:18:16something. I tabled an early day motion asking if we could change the

1:18:16 > 1:18:21way the voting system worked. Even I was getting e-mails saying why have

1:18:21 > 1:18:26you not turned up for this vote? In the six weeks, I was being asked why

1:18:26 > 1:18:35I had not turned up for a certain meeting. And if you know our

1:18:35 > 1:18:41constituencies, they look up your your voting record. I wanted to make

1:18:41 > 1:18:45it clear that we have got to change the voting system. This is the time

1:18:45 > 1:18:49to do it where there are more women than ever before. Having children in

1:18:49 > 1:18:54Parliament. I wanted to point out how our position here in Parliament

1:18:54 > 1:19:00lags behind in other countries. In Sweden, Denmark and Slovenia,

1:19:00 > 1:19:05members of Parliament may be granted leave of 12 ones in case of child

1:19:05 > 1:19:08birth, pregnancy or adoption. This is the same in Estonia Finland and

1:19:08 > 1:19:17Luke Latvia. In the Netherlands, there are no formal maternity leave,

1:19:17 > 1:19:21but they can be replaced by another MP from the same political group so

1:19:21 > 1:19:25they are not penalised for their absence. The fact that we are behind

1:19:25 > 1:19:32these countries with our attitudes to parental leave is compounded with

1:19:32 > 1:19:38her attitude with our Parliamentary voting system. Scotland, he India

1:19:38 > 1:19:48and Ireland and the European Union are all have electronic voting.I

1:19:48 > 1:19:53just want to say to my friend making an incredibly powerful speech, would

1:19:53 > 1:19:57she agree with me by the time we are done with this, we should match or

1:19:57 > 1:20:01better the best Parliaments in the world. And also just to say

1:20:01 > 1:20:04physically, having the second is harder.

1:20:04 > 1:20:12LAUGHTER. I would like to thank my honourable friend for the note of

1:20:12 > 1:20:15confidence, but I absolutely agree with what she is saying. If we want

1:20:15 > 1:20:19to make Parliament a welcoming place for female representatives and if we

1:20:19 > 1:20:23want to act in the way that my constituency Labour Party did when

1:20:23 > 1:20:29they categorically said one after another we want more people not

1:20:29 > 1:20:36women in Parliament, that is what we should all be encouraging in the

1:20:36 > 1:20:44House of Commons where we sit.I thank you for giving way and an

1:20:44 > 1:20:47excellent speech. She mentioned Scotland, so I could not miss the

1:20:47 > 1:20:51opportunity to jump in. We have been in debates on this motion before.

1:20:51 > 1:20:56She mentioned electronic voting and she will know as well as I do that

1:20:56 > 1:21:03some of the arguments against proxy and electronic voting is that this

1:21:03 > 1:21:08chamber does not fit half of the members of this House. We all have

1:21:08 > 1:21:11modern technology we can all watch at home, there is a reason not to do

1:21:11 > 1:21:18this.We have had discussions about this and we do feel that Parliament

1:21:18 > 1:21:23needs to become more modern and we need to encourage more things like

1:21:23 > 1:21:27electronic voting. Maybe that will be next on the agenda. I wanted to

1:21:27 > 1:21:31touch on the fact that I have a lot of support for my constituency

1:21:31 > 1:21:35Labour Party when I ran to be an MP. When I was a young woman, they

1:21:35 > 1:21:40thought I would have children and there were questions raised about

1:21:40 > 1:21:48it. One person said what is the problem is MPs have children? It's

1:21:48 > 1:21:51good for their constituency. He also pointed out that apparently

1:21:51 > 1:21:55politicians with children get more votes, I do not know if that is

1:21:55 > 1:22:01true. I just want to talk a little bit about the support I received in

1:22:01 > 1:22:04Parliament. The staff at the nursery were really fantastic when I first

1:22:04 > 1:22:11took my child. I want to pay tribute to them. The member who was sitting

1:22:11 > 1:22:16here earlier on is my neighbouring MP and right at the beginning when I

1:22:16 > 1:22:18had morning sickness, he was the first to ring and say if there are

1:22:18 > 1:22:22any meetings that you would like me to cover for you, I am happy to go.

1:22:22 > 1:22:26Because his wife had gone through the same thing. Another member on a

1:22:26 > 1:22:34trip to Paris carried my suitcase up and down the stairs when I

1:22:34 > 1:22:38physically could not lift the suitcase. And on the same trip to

1:22:38 > 1:22:43Paris to explore how we tackle anti-Semitism, the former MP for...

1:22:43 > 1:22:47I'm trying to think, for Brentwood said to me he is happy to be the

1:22:47 > 1:22:52godfather for my child and whether I wanted to name my daughter Erica

1:22:52 > 1:22:58after him which I declined. Another MP gave me a wristband to monitor

1:22:58 > 1:23:05the number time my babies kicked. There was a sense of real spirit

1:23:05 > 1:23:09among members of the other side who I would talk to. About what we did

1:23:09 > 1:23:18as young women who had children but also wanted to be good MPs. When my

1:23:18 > 1:23:22ever-growing bomb, and when you are four foot 11, your bob really does

1:23:22 > 1:23:30stand out also -- when your bump really stands out when you are four

1:23:30 > 1:23:40foot 11. Perhaps the memory that most stands out was when right after

1:23:40 > 1:23:46I had the baby, I got an urgent call from my office, the result man whose

1:23:46 > 1:23:52wife had been in a Ron who was detained with her small child. I had

1:23:52 > 1:23:56just had my baby obviously when my office called, I had to meet with

1:23:56 > 1:24:00them because there was no one I could delegate that responsibility

1:24:00 > 1:24:03to when I spoke to him on the phone he said why don't you come over to

1:24:03 > 1:24:08my house and I said that is a good idea. And he said is there any idea

1:24:08 > 1:24:12that the leader of the Labour Party could also meet me? I ran and I said

1:24:12 > 1:24:16I just had a baby but there is a really urgent Kates and we need to

1:24:16 > 1:24:21meet near my flat because I'm breast-feeding. And he said why

1:24:21 > 1:24:26don't I come over to your flat and we will have a meeting there? So are

1:24:26 > 1:24:31in the meeting and I had a tiny baby in my arm, the man whose wife had

1:24:31 > 1:24:35been detained and why breast-feed, we discussed the Iranian authorities

1:24:35 > 1:24:39and talked about how to get my constituent back into the country.

1:24:39 > 1:24:44At one point my baby was very unsettled and I had to take some

1:24:44 > 1:24:49notes so I said to the member, could you hold the baby for bid why write

1:24:49 > 1:24:53notes? Now the baby had been quite unsettled, but for some reason as

1:24:53 > 1:24:59soon as I handed her over, she settled down and went to sleep.

1:24:59 > 1:25:10LAUGHTER. I don't want to say but there may be a point about kinder

1:25:10 > 1:25:14gentler cuddling. I wanted to tell people in the chamber is that that

1:25:14 > 1:25:19was a real defining moment for me. Both men in that room demonstrated

1:25:19 > 1:25:23serious comrade Rees. For me. Taking time to come to my house because I

1:25:23 > 1:25:28did not feel like I could leave. Not batting an eyelid when I breast-fed.

1:25:28 > 1:25:32I think that is the tiny ethos we need to bring into this House. If

1:25:32 > 1:25:36you are an MP and you have an urgent case and you still want to fulfil

1:25:36 > 1:25:41your duties, there are ways to do it. If you can do in my flat in

1:25:41 > 1:25:47North London, we can do it here as well. I sit on a committee where we

1:25:47 > 1:25:51scrutinise legislation around other people's maternity and if we cannot

1:25:51 > 1:25:58lead by example, we should not be sitting here. I commend this motion.

1:25:58 > 1:26:01Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I'm not sure how I'm going to

1:26:01 > 1:26:07follow. It is an honour to take part in this debate. I would like to pay

1:26:07 > 1:26:10tribute to the right honourable members for securing it today. And

1:26:10 > 1:26:16say that for me it is actually what we like to say at home and little

1:26:16 > 1:26:21treat. Around 20 years ago, we were able -- a few years ago I was able

1:26:21 > 1:26:28to interview a member about how she planned to change the working

1:26:28 > 1:26:34landscape for families in this country. I actually had just

1:26:34 > 1:26:42finished my maternity leave at the BBC at the time and I have to say

1:26:42 > 1:26:45that she was right even back in those dark distant days of the past,

1:26:45 > 1:26:52the BBC words you -- were able to put out news bulletins even though I

1:26:52 > 1:26:57was not there. Employers find a way. I have to say the landscape for

1:26:57 > 1:27:03families has changed dramatically. Children who were born back then and

1:27:03 > 1:27:08are becoming parents now benefit from a whole raft of legislation

1:27:08 > 1:27:12which makes it easier for them to be with their partner and their child

1:27:12 > 1:27:16to bond as a family immediately after the child is born except of

1:27:16 > 1:27:20course unless they are a member of Parliament. It seems ridiculous that

1:27:20 > 1:27:27we in this place should be so far behind the very people that we are

1:27:27 > 1:27:36here to represent and to help. I have to say also I have no intention

1:27:36 > 1:27:40of having another child and although I have found that this debate at

1:27:40 > 1:27:45times moving and entertaining, it is also been frankly horrifying. If

1:27:45 > 1:27:52there had been any doubt I would not be having another child now. The

1:27:52 > 1:27:56gender bias of this House has also changed completely since I've been

1:27:56 > 1:28:01here. There are now 200 women many of them young enough to be starting

1:28:01 > 1:28:04or expanding their families. And many of the male colleagues are as

1:28:04 > 1:28:11well. I think we have to bear in mind that for many of us who have

1:28:11 > 1:28:15constituencies, many hundreds of miles away, that will not mean being

1:28:15 > 1:28:19home late at night for an hour or a couple of hours or travelling

1:28:19 > 1:28:23although that must be difficult to high-speed train with a small child.

1:28:23 > 1:28:31It will mean being away for a week at a time.

1:28:31 > 1:28:35Separated from them at the most important time in a child's life,

1:28:35 > 1:28:39not helping our partners through the sorts of ordeals we have heard about

1:28:39 > 1:28:42from other members, and we know that some of the younger male members of

1:28:42 > 1:28:49this house have already had to do. We should not be asking parents to

1:28:49 > 1:28:58choose between voting and providing that support. Not when an

1:28:58 > 1:29:02alternative is already there. It was there in the 19th century, we have

1:29:02 > 1:29:06heard today. It is there every time we go to the ballot box. You can

1:29:06 > 1:29:10have a proxy vote. You can have someone to go to exercise democratic

1:29:10 > 1:29:16right. We should not be excluding ourselves from that possibility. One

1:29:16 > 1:29:25other thing, all of the changes which have come about in the last

1:29:25 > 1:29:3020-30 years, maternity and parental leave act, working families act, the

1:29:30 > 1:29:33Children and Families Act, the Equalities Act, they all aimed at

1:29:33 > 1:29:37creating a level playing field so that when young women went in for a

1:29:37 > 1:29:41job, they were not judged on whether they might be leaving to have

1:29:41 > 1:29:45maternity leave and a young man who came in would not present the same

1:29:45 > 1:29:50problem, he would also be taking baby leave. And yet, we do not seem

1:29:50 > 1:29:55to have taken it into account that when selecting members for this

1:29:55 > 1:30:00House, selecting candidates, perhaps local parties would be faced with

1:30:00 > 1:30:06the same dilemma. If they choose the young woman, married, maybe about to

1:30:06 > 1:30:10start a family, they are going to lose her from the House. If they

1:30:10 > 1:30:16choose to young man, they might think they would not. So we are

1:30:16 > 1:30:20making it difficult for ourselves to pursue that stated goal of making

1:30:20 > 1:30:24this place more representative of the country that we seek to

1:30:24 > 1:30:31represent. We need more young women and more young men, we need more

1:30:31 > 1:30:36people from every section of society, and by making this simple

1:30:36 > 1:30:42difference, this simple change, we can make it easier to encourage

1:30:42 > 1:30:48young people who are about to start families to think, you know, it

1:30:48 > 1:30:52might just be possible, I might just be able to go and continue to

1:30:52 > 1:30:56represent the people I want to represent when I have my child, I

1:30:56 > 1:31:00can have someone else vote for me, when we adopt a child, someone else

1:31:00 > 1:31:06can do it, it is the simplest thing possible. And yet we have not done

1:31:06 > 1:31:17it. If we are going to be truly representative, then we have is to

1:31:17 > 1:31:20represent all of our constituents. We are falling short on that in this

1:31:20 > 1:31:25and all I would say today is we have the opportunity to put that last

1:31:25 > 1:31:32piece of the jigsaw in place, to make it possible to vote, it seems

1:31:32 > 1:31:36ridiculous that they could do it in the 19th century, and in the 21st,

1:31:36 > 1:31:42we are even asking the question. Thank you.I congratulate my right

1:31:42 > 1:31:49honourable friend for securing this important debate. I also thank other

1:31:49 > 1:31:56honourable and right honourable members and Deputy Speaker, making

1:31:56 > 1:32:00good progress over the last few years on this issue. As a new

1:32:00 > 1:32:05member, I had no idea the day nursery used to be a wine bar. The

1:32:05 > 1:32:08day nursery being there seems normal and that is good progress. I declare

1:32:08 > 1:32:13my interest as the father of an eight-week-old and husband to my

1:32:13 > 1:32:19wife, Lucy. Ophelia was able to join me here last week to vote for the

1:32:19 > 1:32:23first time against the third reading of the EU withdrawal bill and for

1:32:23 > 1:32:29those that have shared concern about bringing babies into the voting

1:32:29 > 1:32:34lobby, let me pay tribute to the clerks who very astutely did not

1:32:34 > 1:32:38count her vote when I walked through and quite rightly, I have no ideas

1:32:38 > 1:32:41what her views are on the Government's Brexit strategy. I

1:32:41 > 1:32:46support this important motion today because from my own experience of

1:32:46 > 1:32:50going on paternity leave a little earlier than expected in the run-up

1:32:50 > 1:32:55to Christmas, I was a book as a backbench MP to clear my diary

1:32:55 > 1:33:04easily and my constituents were very supportive but I needed to be and

1:33:04 > 1:33:07there were important votes I wanted to vote on, but the ability to use

1:33:07 > 1:33:11proxy voting or I can see the clerks use and iPad, maybe there is an app

1:33:11 > 1:33:16we could access. It would be welcome progress. In the early days, as

1:33:16 > 1:33:20other honourable friends have said, my duty as a husband and father is

1:33:20 > 1:33:24to be there to help in any way I can at home and having to leave for

1:33:24 > 1:33:29sometimes many hours to vote when I could do it from home or by a proxy,

1:33:29 > 1:33:34it would be very helpful. Formalising the process would be

1:33:34 > 1:33:36helpful too. The whips were very helpful but there was a presumption

1:33:36 > 1:33:41I would be here apart from those I negotiated not to be here for. I

1:33:41 > 1:33:47would argue it was the other way round. French reds, the Brexit ones,

1:33:47 > 1:33:51I'm sure Ophelia would have said that she wanted me to be here -- on

1:33:51 > 1:33:56the crunch ones. The assumption needs switching. In the short amount

1:33:56 > 1:34:02of time I have, it is important we set the tone in this place, it is

1:34:02 > 1:34:06right, as others have said, we should be doing the same as what we

1:34:06 > 1:34:10have legislated for in the country, that seems perfectly sensible. It is

1:34:10 > 1:34:15right to set the tone for what we wish to see. Parenting should not be

1:34:15 > 1:34:19a gender issue and I am of the firm view a family friendly and gender

1:34:19 > 1:34:22balanced economy is not just the right thing to do but would be good

1:34:22 > 1:34:26for economic growth and well-being as well. The House may not be

1:34:26 > 1:34:35surprised to hear that I think my wife is a remarkable and talented

1:34:35 > 1:34:38woman and I say that not least because in the snap election went at

1:34:38 > 1:34:43that stage we were two months pregnant, I made it clear I stood no

1:34:43 > 1:34:47chance of winning the election whatsoever and that I would be able

1:34:47 > 1:34:51to apply for shared parental leave in my previous job as a lawyer. To

1:34:51 > 1:34:55make it worse, having actually won when I said I would not, although I

1:34:55 > 1:35:00am very honoured to be here of course, the local BBC News, they

1:35:00 > 1:35:04noticed a slight bump, they announced our pregnancy to 1.3

1:35:04 > 1:35:09million people in the region without checking first, so we had text

1:35:09 > 1:35:11messages saying, congratulations. We thought it was about the election

1:35:11 > 1:35:15and we realised it was about Ophelia, we had not had the three

1:35:15 > 1:35:21months can, how does everyone know? My wife had a bumpy process in

1:35:21 > 1:35:24becoming a mum involved with a parliamentarian and my wife is also

1:35:24 > 1:35:36my constituent and she has said it is OK for me to say that it has been

1:35:36 > 1:35:44quite distressing and it has been quite difficult because my wife as

1:35:44 > 1:35:48director of public policy at an energy company receiving government

1:35:48 > 1:35:52funding in a senior role, doing very well, and after the announcement of

1:35:52 > 1:35:55her pregnancy, she was made redundant and told her role was no

1:35:55 > 1:36:00longer needed. Very distressing to her. Having worked so hard to

1:36:00 > 1:36:05achieve what she had. But my wife is also a formidable woman, she took

1:36:05 > 1:36:09them to the employment tribunal. As a litigant in person, whilst

1:36:09 > 1:36:14pregnant, cross-examined her former employers, in front of a judge, who

1:36:14 > 1:36:20said that since the Supreme Court had decided the fees were illegal

1:36:20 > 1:36:23for employment tribunal cases, his time was increasingly being taken up

1:36:23 > 1:36:27by these types of cases. The atmosphere and environment, can you

1:36:27 > 1:36:32imagine, as one of only two women of ten in the tribunal room, without

1:36:32 > 1:36:38gender balance unemployment tribunal 's, it was clearly very distressing

1:36:38 > 1:36:43and I take that issue up now with the president of the employment

1:36:43 > 1:36:46tribunal... The fact of the matter is, I should say, my wife sadly lost

1:36:46 > 1:36:52that case and perhaps we should have the debate about the application of

1:36:52 > 1:36:55burden of proof rules in this country where it is up to women to

1:36:55 > 1:36:58establish the burden of proof that discrimination could have taken

1:36:58 > 1:37:01place before employers have to bring forward witnesses and documents to

1:37:01 > 1:37:05show it did not take place at a time when they said the documents did not

1:37:05 > 1:37:09exist, it makes it very difficult for women bringing those claims. The

1:37:09 > 1:37:14fact is that as a father and a husband, I think it is perfectly

1:37:14 > 1:37:28sensible and normal for me to want to lean in, for dads to

1:37:30 > 1:37:33lean my wife to achieve her aspirations and together we want to

1:37:33 > 1:37:35give the best upbringing to our children so I support this motion

1:37:35 > 1:37:38not just because Parliament should be in line with what is happening in

1:37:38 > 1:37:41the rest of the country but it gives us the opportunity to set the tone

1:37:41 > 1:37:43of what we expect in a modern Britain and I hope that through

1:37:43 > 1:37:45reforming Parliament, looking at companies that receive public money

1:37:45 > 1:37:48who have these issues, we may also look at reforming rules in the

1:37:48 > 1:37:49judiciary, maybe even having gender balance and hopefully achieving

1:37:49 > 1:37:54change in the wider economy too. I commend this motion to the House and

1:37:54 > 1:38:00I look forward to supporting it in any way I can.Extremely grateful,

1:38:00 > 1:38:03Mr Deputy Speaker. I am really glad to see you in your seat in this

1:38:03 > 1:38:07debate which I guess maybe on some levels bittersweet but reminds us

1:38:07 > 1:38:10very strongly there are fantastic parents here in Parliament and I

1:38:10 > 1:38:16have to say in all honesty that those of us who have grappled with

1:38:16 > 1:38:22the experience of being the custodians of a child, being a

1:38:22 > 1:38:27parent, and I have met few finer examples than those people I work

1:38:27 > 1:38:30alongside here in Westminster, you have heard some of those stories

1:38:30 > 1:38:33here today were ready, I will not rehearse the points already made but

1:38:33 > 1:38:37I want to pay tribute to the members for Peckham and Basingstoke for

1:38:37 > 1:38:40bringing this forward. It has been something we have been discussing

1:38:40 > 1:38:45for a period of time. As one small change that might make life a little

1:38:45 > 1:38:49bit easier it what is an incredibly difficult hard and job and I wanted

1:38:49 > 1:38:56to say as well I do not believe we should be exempt or we should not

1:38:56 > 1:38:59acknowledge the freedom and flexibility to do a job for which we

1:38:59 > 1:39:03are well paid and for which we love the opportunity to do so, it should

1:39:03 > 1:39:08be hard, it should cost us something, but if we can make small

1:39:08 > 1:39:12incremental improvements that improve the lives of people here as

1:39:12 > 1:39:16well, I do not think it is just as that will benefit, it is the whole

1:39:16 > 1:39:22of society. In a week in which we discussed last night the renewal of

1:39:22 > 1:39:27this Parliament and today our own arrangements, it can perhaps seem

1:39:27 > 1:39:29indulgent for parliamentarians to spend their time talking about

1:39:29 > 1:39:34themselves, but I would simply point out we are the only ones that can

1:39:34 > 1:39:37have this conversation, we are the ones that determine our working

1:39:37 > 1:39:42practices and rightly so. My honourable friend for Birmingham

1:39:42 > 1:39:50Yardley referred to the famous internet meme when MPs are packed in

1:39:50 > 1:39:55when talking about the own conditions and absolutely absent

1:39:55 > 1:39:59when some important issue is being talked about, that is absolutely

1:39:59 > 1:40:04untrue. It would be good for them to talk about this, we are relatively

1:40:04 > 1:40:09sparse here today, everyone is taking one position, but I have

1:40:09 > 1:40:15spoken to many young fathers, they have said to me that they really do

1:40:15 > 1:40:20want this change. They really do.My honourable friend from the committee

1:40:20 > 1:40:27says that we are voicing one view here today. He is right. But surely

1:40:27 > 1:40:33if anyone had a view that differed, they would be here?I couldn't agree

1:40:33 > 1:40:37more and that is why I feel confident that this motion be

1:40:37 > 1:40:41brought forward and moved forward and I feel we should take confidence

1:40:41 > 1:40:44than that -- from that and encouraged the procedure committee

1:40:44 > 1:40:48to look at it swiftly, I know they have done preliminary work on how

1:40:48 > 1:40:54such a system could work. The model of caring for a child in that first

1:40:54 > 1:40:59year of the child's life, the split between two different parents, it

1:40:59 > 1:41:03sets the pattern of child rearing right the way through the child's

1:41:03 > 1:41:15life, all of the studies seem to show that. Therefore, if we want

1:41:15 > 1:41:17people to live up to the expectation of being present for their children,

1:41:17 > 1:41:20we should try to reflect that here in our practice as well. I have

1:41:20 > 1:41:22for-year-old daughter and I have always juggled life in this

1:41:22 > 1:41:25Parliament and I have made the most of the flexibility offered around

1:41:25 > 1:41:32floats to try to be present in her life -- around votes. We make it

1:41:32 > 1:41:36work, whatever way of life we are in, whether it means using time on

1:41:36 > 1:41:40Monday, getting back for the school run on Thursday, shifting days

1:41:40 > 1:41:44around at the weekend, being able to take a day out in the middle but

1:41:44 > 1:41:48turn up the votes later, I would just say, I have never had a formal

1:41:48 > 1:41:52conversation with my whips office to talk about the indications of me

1:41:52 > 1:41:55having a child, I have never said, here is my working pattern, I have

1:41:55 > 1:42:03really broadcast up until now what that looks like. Two fears, probably

1:42:03 > 1:42:07play on the minds of young fathers as well as young mothers, the first

1:42:07 > 1:42:12being what if it leaves you open to criticism that you are not hard at

1:42:12 > 1:42:17work? I have to say, when I headed up my first year in Parliament, I

1:42:17 > 1:42:22did that exercise, excluding the commuting, I worked out at 70-80

1:42:22 > 1:42:26hour week in that job, and it has eased off as I have got better at

1:42:26 > 1:42:31it, frankly, but that is not a concern that should be legitimate.

1:42:31 > 1:42:35There is no shortage of work and we are all doing it and when we are

1:42:35 > 1:42:41not, it is fairly obvious... I will give way.Apologies for not being

1:42:41 > 1:42:44here for the full debate and interrupting now. Can I thank the

1:42:44 > 1:42:47honourable member for allowing the back row allowing me to spend more

1:42:47 > 1:42:52time with my children by winning the seat in 2010 and leaving me another

1:42:52 > 1:42:56five years before I personally got into Parliament? Making a really

1:42:56 > 1:42:59important point about constituents expecting this to work very hard but

1:42:59 > 1:43:03at the same time we have to put process in place so it is not

1:43:03 > 1:43:07unnecessarily difficult and I think that is what we have at the moment,

1:43:07 > 1:43:10ridiculous processes making it unnecessarily difficult, whereas the

1:43:10 > 1:43:14rest of the country has moved on. Generous to me in 2010 and generous

1:43:14 > 1:43:23to me now. The second reason why I have never sat down and had a formal

1:43:23 > 1:43:26conversation is we worry that sometimes it looks like a lack of

1:43:26 > 1:43:31professionalism, a lack of hunger to get on, and actually, it is true, it

1:43:31 > 1:43:34is much harder to have sharp elbows in this place and force your way to

1:43:34 > 1:43:39the front if you make choices about supporting your own family. I am

1:43:39 > 1:43:43fortunate to structure my own work time to be present around my

1:43:43 > 1:43:46daughter but most people's experience of having children and

1:43:46 > 1:43:49being in this place is completely frazzled all of the time. Trying to

1:43:49 > 1:43:56find a way to make it work.

1:43:56 > 1:44:01Very sadly my own relationship with my daughter's mum broke down and I

1:44:01 > 1:44:04want to take full responsibility for that, but equally we need to be

1:44:04 > 1:44:07honest about the working practises of this place and the implications

1:44:07 > 1:44:16that there are. I was told that between my intake of 20 ten and

1:44:16 > 1:44:212015, a quarter of marriages broke down during that term. And we have

1:44:21 > 1:44:24to be honest about the implications of this place. And the effect that

1:44:24 > 1:44:34it has. There are real issues. For example shared parental leave is not

1:44:34 > 1:44:40only difficult, it is impossible because we don't have that formal

1:44:40 > 1:44:44employment relationship. Secondly just to make the point we make

1:44:44 > 1:44:48reasonable accommodations in all sorts of ways for other members's

1:44:48 > 1:44:53issues. I do not believe that we should dial down our parenthood to

1:44:53 > 1:44:56be representatives in this place I think we should amplify it. I think

1:44:56 > 1:45:01we should talk about it, we should normalise it. I think by doing so we

1:45:01 > 1:45:08might be able to get to a fairer society and close the gender pay

1:45:08 > 1:45:18gap. We can also approach other issues in a different lens. I want

1:45:18 > 1:45:22to make one final point, Mr Deputy Speaker, it is actually a procedural

1:45:22 > 1:45:29one. At the moment, the procedures invest to make exist that we work

1:45:29 > 1:45:38with the whips office in my case two weeks after the birth of my

1:45:38 > 1:45:47daughter, you know longer. -- longer amounts of time. I just want to say

1:45:47 > 1:45:55that our pairing arrangements we know that there are some members who

1:45:55 > 1:46:02are not going to be around for a lot of time. For example, select

1:46:02 > 1:46:06committee visit which cannot go ahead because we have already pared

1:46:06 > 1:46:10out what we can do on the basis of illness or on the basis of child

1:46:10 > 1:46:16care. I, myself, have never, it is not a brag, I have never made a

1:46:16 > 1:46:19request to be let off the whip for personal circumstances. I've

1:46:19 > 1:46:25actually never missed a vote because I've been ill, I've always been

1:46:25 > 1:46:29present. I do not think people abuse that system, but there are

1:46:29 > 1:46:31restrictions that are put in place and I do not actually believe this

1:46:31 > 1:46:37would take power away or give power to the whips offices. Whenever

1:46:37 > 1:46:43you're particular... It were actually professionalize it and make

1:46:43 > 1:46:52it much easier. In my own party standing orders requiring me if I

1:46:52 > 1:46:59were to take paternity leave for example, baby care, to sign over my

1:46:59 > 1:47:03proxy vote to the Chiefs. I am comfortable with that. There are

1:47:03 > 1:47:09ways around this. This should not be something that should be... Overall,

1:47:09 > 1:47:13this is a change which is required. It is a change that will have a

1:47:13 > 1:47:20profound impact on how we work here. It is the T one to -- thin end of

1:47:20 > 1:47:27the wedge. We need to become better at looking after ourselves on the

1:47:27 > 1:47:33basis that we don't want to put unnecessary strain. This job should

1:47:33 > 1:47:36be hard. Public leadership and sacrifice should be that

1:47:36 > 1:47:41sacrificial. Putting in place artificial barriers will not just

1:47:41 > 1:47:47hold that women in this place, but met as well.It is a pleasure to

1:47:47 > 1:47:57speak in this debate. Because I'm leaving for the S&P, my name had to

1:47:57 > 1:48:04come off the motion. I pay a tribute to the honourable Lady for ringing

1:48:04 > 1:48:10this debate. They are two women in this place that I hold in highest

1:48:10 > 1:48:14regard. I think that the debate today has been completely consensual

1:48:14 > 1:48:18as it should be on this issue. Not just in this place, but across

1:48:18 > 1:48:26society. I moved to say the words we're here not in our efforts to be

1:48:26 > 1:48:31lawbreakers, but in our efforts to be to get to speak today and to be

1:48:31 > 1:48:41part of what hopefully will come forward is very important weird

1:48:41 > 1:48:50because as the owner member said you know we have to reflect society but

1:48:50 > 1:48:54we also have to lead society. And I think 100 years on from women

1:48:54 > 1:48:59getting the vote that is hugely important. When I was thinking about

1:48:59 > 1:49:01standing for election, it was something I thought very carefully

1:49:01 > 1:49:06about whether I could do for two reasons. One, I knew I needed to

1:49:06 > 1:49:09come out and do with my sexuality and secondly I wanted to have

1:49:09 > 1:49:24children. -- deal with my sexuality. Nonetheless regardless of that being

1:49:24 > 1:49:28able to know that there are members across this place that support this

1:49:28 > 1:49:33process means that hopefully the next generation of parliamentarians,

1:49:33 > 1:49:38whether they are male, female whenever disability, whatever their

1:49:38 > 1:49:41sexuality is, they will look at this place and other Parliaments across

1:49:41 > 1:49:47the UK and think that is something that I can and want to be a part of.

1:49:47 > 1:49:52I think it has been an incredible debate. As we look across the world,

1:49:52 > 1:49:58we have the Prime Minister of New Zealand who was about to have a baby

1:49:58 > 1:50:04with her partner. We are taking steps forward and the testimonies

1:50:04 > 1:50:17that were read out mentioned. I would also like to refer to my

1:50:17 > 1:50:23honourable friend from Glasgow Central who got an interesting

1:50:23 > 1:50:28e-mail during the 2015 election. I'm just going to read out the question

1:50:28 > 1:50:34and the answer because I think it typifies the debate. It just shows

1:50:34 > 1:50:41how far we have to go. Dear Alison, I am in favour in the back of many

1:50:41 > 1:50:47of the S&P's Parliament to make policies. But I am very worried to

1:50:47 > 1:50:54find out that you are a mother of a very young family. It would help to

1:50:54 > 1:51:01know your solution... Your solution peer to me it is quite incredible

1:51:01 > 1:51:05that anybody would write to a potential candidate and saying that

1:51:05 > 1:51:18the fact that -- having children would be a problem. It is spoken

1:51:18 > 1:51:27that we let me read you the response. Thank you very much for

1:51:27 > 1:51:37your e-mail. I apologise for the delayed playback late reply. I am

1:51:37 > 1:51:41not alone amongst male and female candidates who have been lucky

1:51:41 > 1:51:50enough to have a family. Indeed, the mail Parliament member has a family.

1:51:50 > 1:51:57The average age of MP were 50, more than 62% of the MPs are white men

1:51:57 > 1:52:04aged over 40, I think Westminster out to be more representative of the

1:52:04 > 1:52:08people it serves without more women. Inequality affects policy and

1:52:08 > 1:52:18governance. I believe with the poor gender balance they have made poor

1:52:18 > 1:52:33decisions in things with families. Making the law the right to

1:52:33 > 1:52:36breast-feed. Over the last five years... She goes on to talk about

1:52:36 > 1:52:45being a councillor. There was another person who is a councillor

1:52:45 > 1:52:48in Aberdeen with very small children. I will cross whatever

1:52:48 > 1:52:54other bridges are necessary when the votes are cast. I think I is an

1:52:54 > 1:53:02excellent response.I thank you for giving way. I welcome the

1:53:02 > 1:53:11contributions that making. She is talking about what candidates might

1:53:11 > 1:53:17face when they are a new parent. I want to reflect on the abuse that I

1:53:17 > 1:53:24received. This person took to Twitter to criticise me for not

1:53:24 > 1:53:29attending a debate in the evening. He accused me of being timid for my

1:53:29 > 1:53:33refusal to attend an election debate. And I told that candidate

1:53:33 > 1:53:38that I did not refuse to do any debates, but with a newborn baby,

1:53:38 > 1:53:42evening events would be impossible and that I would gladly take on any

1:53:42 > 1:53:46day. He responded to say that he didn't realise that we were still

1:53:46 > 1:53:511950s when only a woman can look after a child. He said he thought

1:53:51 > 1:53:57the Labour Party believed in shared paternity. And I told him that we do

1:53:57 > 1:54:06and we champion it. To remind him that I wasn't expecting a general

1:54:06 > 1:54:09election and also he didn't know my personal circumstances and that as

1:54:09 > 1:54:15far as I was aware men still could not breast-feed. I suggested that he

1:54:15 > 1:54:24might want to stop digging. But I wanted to share this because the

1:54:24 > 1:54:28point that the honourable member makes at what happens at election

1:54:28 > 1:54:32time and how candidates treat other candidate shows back in 2017 we

1:54:32 > 1:54:40still have an issue to address.I completely agree. This vote on this

1:54:40 > 1:54:43issue is just not about a technicality of how we cast our

1:54:43 > 1:54:50votes. It is very important and my honourable friend has highlighted to

1:54:50 > 1:54:58me the importance the thin end of the wedge and I agree on that. It is

1:54:58 > 1:55:07proximity. Also with weather and geography. It's about the discourse

1:55:07 > 1:55:10and the narrative that we have in politics with each other, that the

1:55:10 > 1:55:20press has with us. And the digital environment how all the systems and

1:55:20 > 1:55:24processes that are around politics and around how we do politics need

1:55:24 > 1:55:28to be more transparent, need to be more reflective. If we have the

1:55:28 > 1:55:37positive system then it will be much more positive. I just want to prefer

1:55:37 > 1:55:45briefly and paid tribute to my honourable friend in the Scottish

1:55:45 > 1:55:51Parliament, and a gender balance Cabinet secretaries. They have had

1:55:51 > 1:55:57children in office and they for me have paved the way inspired me to

1:55:57 > 1:56:06stand. But the Scottish Parliament made clear from the outset. It was

1:56:06 > 1:56:11said there is a seed for everyone. Voting only takes a few seconds. And

1:56:11 > 1:56:22in the best practises phase things were drawn up to make sure that we

1:56:22 > 1:56:35can learn from our mistakes. We have a crush in the Scottish Parliament.

1:56:35 > 1:56:47We have child care in the Scottish permit. Some of the challenges of

1:56:47 > 1:56:50bringing children to this place where the family room is sometimes

1:56:50 > 1:56:56misused by other members or for meetings. He has had a great deal of

1:56:56 > 1:57:03support in that, but we do need to look at that as well. And there are

1:57:03 > 1:57:09many inclusive practises how business is done, so finishing at

1:57:09 > 1:57:12five o'clock. I do not want to talk too much about it. The Other Place I

1:57:12 > 1:57:20want to focus. My honourable friend from Aberdeen North talks about how

1:57:20 > 1:57:28she travels to Westminster biplane. And most don't let people 36 weeks

1:57:28 > 1:57:33pregnant fly. Also after having a baby you cannot fly for a week

1:57:33 > 1:57:41probably more like a fortnight. So, if she had a baby and she did say

1:57:41 > 1:57:50that she did not have any intentions of having more, she may have put

1:57:50 > 1:57:56women off having children. I have to say I remain undeterred. She says

1:57:56 > 1:58:00being away from Westminster. Because she could not travel gear would be

1:58:00 > 1:58:02very unfair to her constituents and would mean they would be

1:58:02 > 1:58:12unrepresented.

1:58:12 > 1:58:16He has fantastic staff ensuring everything was covered in the

1:58:16 > 1:58:21constituency but these matters need to be formalised. It seems

1:58:21 > 1:58:25incredible that 100 years after women got the vote, we are debating

1:58:25 > 1:58:30the fact they cannot take part fully for their constituents and fully in

1:58:30 > 1:58:34debates. We know Parliamentary work is not just about walking through

1:58:34 > 1:58:37the voting lobbies, it is about being in your constituency, but

1:58:37 > 1:58:43having an open Parliament will make sure that people from whatever walk

1:58:43 > 1:58:49of life, particularly women and aspiring parents and parents, they

1:58:49 > 1:58:54will think they can be part of democracy, stand for election, and

1:58:54 > 1:58:59it will make those women particularly who are going to have

1:58:59 > 1:59:02children very soon, parliamentarians, it will make their

1:59:02 > 1:59:05lives significantly easier. I hope the House and the public are

1:59:05 > 1:59:11listening carefully to the testimony from today.Thank you. Can I

1:59:11 > 1:59:14associate myself with the remarks made by my noble friend for Luton

1:59:14 > 1:59:18South? Good to see you in your place. I say to the honourable

1:59:18 > 1:59:22friend from Luton South, that is what a feminist looks like. Can I

1:59:22 > 1:59:32thank the right honourable a -- right honourable lady? She was a

1:59:32 > 1:59:35formidable role model when she was pregnant and stood in the election,

1:59:35 > 1:59:41I think it was Harry at the time, it is fitting that mother of the house

1:59:41 > 1:59:44should bring forward this debate and it is right for members to debate

1:59:44 > 1:59:49this and for the backbench committee to have allowed this debate. The

1:59:49 > 1:59:54honourable member for Basingstoke is always, as co-sponsor of this

1:59:54 > 1:59:59debate, raising important equality issues on her committee and I am

1:59:59 > 2:00:06sure she will monitor, together with other members, what the procedure

2:00:06 > 2:00:11committee comes up with. Honourable members will remember when the

2:00:11 > 2:00:14former Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister took paternity leave,

2:00:14 > 2:00:20they were celebrated, but as the honourable members for Liverpool,

2:00:20 > 2:00:24Wolverhampton North East, when they have been maternity leave, they have

2:00:24 > 2:00:32suffered abuse. The honourable member, she was a minister,

2:00:32 > 2:00:38surrounded by gurgles and red boxes, they are all formidable campaigners.

2:00:38 > 2:00:43The fat women have suffered abuse and accusations of being lazy is

2:00:43 > 2:00:50unacceptable -- the fact that women have suffered abuse. We want women

2:00:50 > 2:00:54to be Members of Parliament, there are no implications for play, women

2:00:54 > 2:00:57are not away, they want to cast their vote on behalf of their

2:00:57 > 2:01:02constituents -- implications for pay. It is right we should look at

2:01:02 > 2:01:10this, the edition of nodding through in certain circumstances. Ophelia is

2:01:10 > 2:01:14lucky to have a hands-on band, in the constituency member Bristol

2:01:14 > 2:01:20West. It is not compulsory to request this, but in my view, it is

2:01:20 > 2:01:24a compelling case. Proxy voting will have to be in line with party policy

2:01:24 > 2:01:30and proxy voting does not equate to a free vote. This motion does not

2:01:30 > 2:01:35ask to widen proxy voting to other circumstances, just this specific

2:01:35 > 2:01:38one where the member cannot attend the vote because of caring

2:01:38 > 2:01:43responsibilities. All this motion does is enable women MPs to balance

2:01:43 > 2:01:48giving birth, looking after a baby, with their work as an MP, and all my

2:01:48 > 2:01:51honourable friends who have given birth while they have been MPs have

2:01:51 > 2:01:59carried on with their work in the constituency and in the house and as

2:01:59 > 2:02:02honourable members have pointed out, they know in the 21st-century they

2:02:02 > 2:02:08have to respond to e-mails and they do so all the time. The honourable

2:02:08 > 2:02:11member from Birmingham Yardley, she says she doesn't want to have any

2:02:11 > 2:02:15more children, but I want to break it to her, she will be a month

2:02:15 > 2:02:21forever, even when are older, and they have children of their own. --

2:02:21 > 2:02:29a mum for ever. The clerk of the house we submitted a memorandum on

2:02:29 > 2:02:32proxy voting identify members with caring responsibilities limited to

2:02:32 > 2:02:36mothers of young infants as a category of member who might qualify

2:02:36 > 2:02:39for proxy voting. The honourable member is right that matters should

2:02:39 > 2:02:44be looked at by the appropriate committee, the honourable member for

2:02:44 > 2:02:48Peckham and Camberwell, and more work should be done following the

2:02:48 > 2:02:52motion together with their work by Sarah Charles and her report. It is

2:02:52 > 2:02:56going to be more of an issue as women members take their place and

2:02:56 > 2:03:02we move towards parity of MPs. And it is a lovely way to celebrate the

2:03:02 > 2:03:06representation of the people act 1918 giving 6 million women the

2:03:06 > 2:03:12right over the age of 30, first, the right to vote and debating this

2:03:12 > 2:03:17issue as women take our rightful place in the House. The honourable

2:03:17 > 2:03:23member for Camberwell and Peckham and Basingstoke, co-sponsors, all

2:03:23 > 2:03:27the members speaking in the debate, they are wonderful role models,

2:03:27 > 2:03:34Ophelia, Emilio, Theo and Ruby, the wonderful babies born to members in

2:03:34 > 2:03:38the time I have been in the house, your parents and every single

2:03:38 > 2:03:42honourable member has pushed back the boundaries today towards a good

2:03:42 > 2:03:52and more equal Parliament. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can I say

2:03:52 > 2:03:56what a huge pleasure it is to see you in your place today?There have

2:03:56 > 2:04:01been some excellent and very personal speeches and I think they

2:04:01 > 2:04:06have been so informative and they take me back to the horrors of those

2:04:06 > 2:04:10early days and also, Mr Deputy Speaker, I have to reflect that

2:04:10 > 2:04:12following the debate yesterday where I opened by saying this is a debate

2:04:12 > 2:04:17that should have taken place 40 years ago, this is a debate that

2:04:17 > 2:04:22should have taken place 40 years ago too. Let me start by paying tribute

2:04:22 > 2:04:25to the right honourable member for Camberwell and Peckham for the way

2:04:25 > 2:04:29in which she opened today's debate, a consistent champion of these

2:04:29 > 2:04:34issues throughout her career and it is certainly fitting she is mother

2:04:34 > 2:04:45of the House has secured this debate today. I want to recognise the total

2:04:45 > 2:04:47commitment of my right honourable friend for Basingstoke as chairman

2:04:47 > 2:04:50of the women and equality select committee who has supported and

2:04:50 > 2:04:52promoted so many issues affecting women and equality is in this house.

2:04:52 > 2:04:58I absolutely agree with all members here that it is essential we address

2:04:58 > 2:05:03and deal with the issue of baby leaves. Mr Deputy Speaker, the

2:05:03 > 2:05:07motion before the House today presents two issues for

2:05:07 > 2:05:10consideration, the first is the need for Members of Parliament to be able

2:05:10 > 2:05:14to take baby leave, I think we can all agree new parents must spend

2:05:14 > 2:05:20time with their babies, they must be enabled to do that. The second issue

2:05:20 > 2:05:24concerns how we reconcile this with the question of how and whether

2:05:24 > 2:05:28members should be able to vote in the House of Commons during any such

2:05:28 > 2:05:34leave. I want to thank the all-party Parliamentary group for women, until

2:05:34 > 2:05:37recently chaired by my honourable friend for Eastleigh and now by my

2:05:37 > 2:05:42honourable friend for Redditch for their hard work promoting equality

2:05:42 > 2:05:45for women and also the Commons reference group on representation

2:05:45 > 2:05:50and inclusion which is chaired by Mr Speaker and it is tasked with

2:05:50 > 2:05:58following and implementing where possible the recommendations made in

2:05:58 > 2:06:02the Good Parliament report. I want to say thanks for the important work

2:06:02 > 2:06:07of these groups. As the House may be aware, I have championed the vital

2:06:07 > 2:06:10importance of secure early attachment for many years and I have

2:06:10 > 2:06:14worked with a number of charities on this vital issue and I was chairman

2:06:14 > 2:06:18and trustee of a charity than nine years, helping parents who are

2:06:18 > 2:06:23struggling to form a secure bond with their babies. When I became MP

2:06:23 > 2:06:27for South Northamptonshire, I set up a Northamptonshire parent and infant

2:06:27 > 2:06:32partnership to provide help to all those new parents struggling across

2:06:32 > 2:06:36the county and even persuaded my honourable friend, the member for

2:06:36 > 2:06:41Banbury, to become a founding trustee. Now through the national

2:06:41 > 2:06:45charity I set up, there are five further parenting for partnerships

2:06:45 > 2:06:49across the country and I am delighted more families are unable

2:06:49 > 2:06:53to seek support for the earliest relationships which is probably the

2:06:53 > 2:06:59most important relationship we ever have because the baby's lifelong

2:06:59 > 2:07:06emotional health is profoundly impacted by his or her earliest

2:07:06 > 2:07:11experiences in the 1001 critical days of the perinatal period and I

2:07:11 > 2:07:16was proud to hear the honourable lady, the member for Liverpool way

2:07:16 > 2:07:20victory, mention the cross-party 1001 critical days campaign is set

2:07:20 > 2:07:26up in 2011 and it does command support from across the House. I

2:07:26 > 2:07:33absolutely agree that the mental health white paper published just

2:07:33 > 2:07:37before Christmas does include the need to commission further research

2:07:37 > 2:07:40into interventions that support better attachment and improve the

2:07:40 > 2:07:46understanding amongst professionals of the importance of low stress,

2:07:46 > 2:07:51healthy pregnancies and secure attachment. Like the two right

2:07:51 > 2:07:55honourable ladies, my own children are a bit older than babies, my

2:07:55 > 2:07:59eldest is 22, but that excellent speeches take me back to my early

2:07:59 > 2:08:04experiences when I was not in this place and I had a 46 hour delivery,

2:08:04 > 2:08:08I think, and a good dose, having just been promoted to a senior

2:08:08 > 2:08:12executive in the bank I was working in, they required me back after 11

2:08:12 > 2:08:16weeks. I had a good dose of postnatal depression to deal with

2:08:16 > 2:08:21following that. I totally empathise with all of those members who talk

2:08:21 > 2:08:24about their own experiences here and very committed to ensuring those who

2:08:24 > 2:08:28come after us do not have to suffer those same problems. I would just

2:08:28 > 2:08:32draw attention to my honourable friend for Worcester who sat next to

2:08:32 > 2:08:35me in the first part of the debate who was telling me his brother who

2:08:35 > 2:08:39works for the civil service is looking forward to six months shared

2:08:39 > 2:08:43parental leave next February and he himself is expecting a baby with his

2:08:43 > 2:08:50wife and he is asking nicely for two weeks. How is that? Today's debate

2:08:50 > 2:08:58is timely.I wonder if she remembers the first time we met she was

2:08:58 > 2:09:03pregnant? A few years ago now. Does she... We were on the selection

2:09:03 > 2:09:08trail as well. Does she agree with me that this is as important as it

2:09:08 > 2:09:15is a first step in trying to make this place and much easier place to

2:09:15 > 2:09:19not just be a parent but actually to be somebody who cares for their

2:09:19 > 2:09:25broader family as well?Of course, my right honourable friend is

2:09:25 > 2:09:29exactly right, there is a lot more to life than this place. It may seem

2:09:29 > 2:09:33extraordinary to all of us but we are all human beings, we are

2:09:33 > 2:09:37parents, daughters and sons, we have responsibilities. Today's debate is

2:09:37 > 2:09:43timely as we continue to break down the barriers that could discourage

2:09:43 > 2:09:49women and men from pursuing a career in Parliament. The motion today

2:09:49 > 2:09:53suggest a way to resolve the issue of baby leave is with the

2:09:53 > 2:09:57introduction of proxy voting, whilst I absolutely support the need to

2:09:57 > 2:10:02make this house more accessible for new parents, it is also important we

2:10:02 > 2:10:06recognise the possible consequences of any reforms, so with that in

2:10:06 > 2:10:08mind, I wrote to my honourable friend, the member for Broxbourne,

2:10:08 > 2:10:13the chair of the procedure committee in November, copying my right

2:10:13 > 2:10:26honourable friend, the chair of the women and

2:10:29 > 2:10:31equality is asked the committee to consider the matter of baby leave

2:10:31 > 2:10:34and proxy voting and for that committee to set out its views to

2:10:34 > 2:10:37the House. I also wrote to every member of the Cabinet and I can say

2:10:37 > 2:10:39that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister replied to me and

2:10:39 > 2:10:42agrees this is an important matter. She wrote, I quote, being a member

2:10:42 > 2:10:45of the and is a demanding job and it is important we give due

2:10:45 > 2:10:47consideration to the impact this can have on work life balance, childcare

2:10:47 > 2:10:50and they believe -- a member of the in. She has made clear her support.

2:10:50 > 2:10:54Following my letter to the procedure committee, my honourable friend has

2:10:54 > 2:10:58said should the motion be agreed today, the committee will undertake

2:10:58 > 2:11:02an inquiry into proxy voting. I welcome this as it is clear from

2:11:02 > 2:11:06this debate there are a number of important questions that need to be

2:11:06 > 2:11:10considered. Some of which I will set out briefly now. Giving Members of

2:11:10 > 2:11:14Parliament the right to baby leave raises a number of potential

2:11:14 > 2:11:17questions around the duties of Members of Parliament and the rules

2:11:17 > 2:11:23by which they are regulated. As colleagues will know, Members of

2:11:23 > 2:11:29Parliament are appointed representatives of their

2:11:29 > 2:11:31constituencies and they are not regulated by the same employment

2:11:31 > 2:11:33rules applying to other members of the workforce. Introducing baby

2:11:33 > 2:11:37leave might lead some to suggest MPs should be treated as employees which

2:11:37 > 2:11:41could have wider implications that we need to look at. The introduction

2:11:41 > 2:11:46of proxy voting would mark a departure from conventional voting

2:11:46 > 2:11:50practices in the House. For example, when members vote in a division, it

2:11:50 > 2:11:53is expected they do so having had the opportunity to attend the

2:11:53 > 2:11:58Chamber. I think we can all agree that television and 24-hour

2:11:58 > 2:12:04reporting, let alone Twitter and everything else, it gives members

2:12:04 > 2:12:07the opportunity to follow business from further afield, but any change

2:12:07 > 2:12:11will need to be carefully considered, including who would act

2:12:11 > 2:12:17as a proxy and how this would be regulated. It is also important to

2:12:17 > 2:12:21note Members of Parliament are elected by their constituents as

2:12:21 > 2:12:26individuals and it is implied upon election that their votes cannot be

2:12:26 > 2:12:31transferred to another empty so appointing a proxy voter could be

2:12:31 > 2:12:33perceived as reducing personal accountability. Any changes will

2:12:33 > 2:12:39need to ensure that personal accountability is maintained. In

2:12:39 > 2:12:43addition to these questions, and as I said in my letter to the procedure

2:12:43 > 2:12:48committee, a number of alternative suggestions have been made, aimed at

2:12:48 > 2:12:52addressing the needs of new parents undertaking the duties of an MP

2:12:52 > 2:12:56while also making sure their constituents have adequate

2:12:56 > 2:13:00representation in parliament. One such example is that all political

2:13:00 > 2:13:04parties represented in the House could agree a memorandum of

2:13:04 > 2:13:08understanding agreeing to the same terms which would allow their MPs to

2:13:08 > 2:13:12take parental leave and to formalise pairing arrangements across all

2:13:12 > 2:13:19parties.I am grateful. I appreciate the thoughtful way in which she is

2:13:19 > 2:13:22approaching this from first principles and laying out some of

2:13:22 > 2:13:29the issues mentioned by other members. I would just like her to go

2:13:29 > 2:13:32slightly further and acknowledge that there is a reputational issues

2:13:32 > 2:13:37around Members of Parliament not being present to vote and being

2:13:37 > 2:13:41reported as being absent when actually they are taking up

2:13:41 > 2:13:48responsibilities she herself has said a vitally important.

2:13:48 > 2:13:53I am not advocating one group over another. I am merely pointing out to

2:13:53 > 2:13:56the House that these issues need careful consideration, which is why

2:13:56 > 2:14:02I wrote to the procedure committee and why I'm delighted that they will

2:14:02 > 2:14:09have an inquiry. In addition, a helpful memorandum has been created

2:14:09 > 2:14:15and is available on the website. I encourage members to read it. It

2:14:15 > 2:14:19talks about very important issues including other approaches in other

2:14:19 > 2:14:25Parliament. Also alluding to our mediaeval tradition of voting by

2:14:25 > 2:14:29proxy. I am sure there were not very many pregnant women there in those

2:14:29 > 2:14:35days, but nevertheless they found a way. So Mr Deputy Speaker, should an

2:14:35 > 2:14:39inquiry be launched, I would inquire your colleagues to submit their own

2:14:39 > 2:14:44views. I have no doubt that the many insightful contributions made here

2:14:44 > 2:14:49will be great value to the committee. This is an important

2:14:49 > 2:14:52debate which has really caught the attention of Parliament. As Leader

2:14:52 > 2:14:56of the House, I want to make it absolutely clear that if we can

2:14:56 > 2:15:00agree on a way forward on they believe, I will drive that forward

2:15:00 > 2:15:06with my total commitment. Thank you. Thank you very much Mr Deputy

2:15:06 > 2:15:10Speaker and I welcome you back to the chair. It is great to see you

2:15:10 > 2:15:14here with us. I think this has been a really important debate and I

2:15:14 > 2:15:18think all members who've contributed from all sides. People who have

2:15:18 > 2:15:23spoken in deeply personal team to wood terms. They have shown a

2:15:23 > 2:15:29passion for their family and their constituents. Nobody has actually

2:15:29 > 2:15:33spoken against it. I think this has been a very important debate to

2:15:33 > 2:15:38shape the proceedings of the procedure committee. The committee

2:15:38 > 2:15:42needs to take it forward with some focus and with some clarity and wit

2:15:42 > 2:15:47some expedition. We do not want after debate such as we have had to