23/02/2018

0:04:10 > 0:04:20Order, order!

0:04:20 > 0:04:26The data request at this house it in private. The clerk will now proceed

0:04:26 > 0:04:30to lead the orders of the day.Organ Donation (Deemed Consent) Bill

0:04:30 > 0:04:38second reading.I beg to move the second reading.Well done.Mr

0:04:38 > 0:04:45Geoffrey Robinson. Thank you. It is a great pleasure to see that the

0:04:45 > 0:04:50Minister is in her place and I'm very pleased that she gave out an

0:04:50 > 0:04:53official statement of support from the government but will be

0:04:53 > 0:04:58supporting the spill, not just here now at the second reading, but

0:04:58 > 0:05:02through all its stages. It is very welcome and I appreciate that very

0:05:02 > 0:05:10much. I had no doubts at any stage of our support. My honourable friend

0:05:10 > 0:05:15is a shadow minister, who will also be speaking from the front bench. In

0:05:15 > 0:05:19this context, I must also mention that the Prime Minister fairly early

0:05:19 > 0:05:25on indicated to me that she had a personal interest and lead our bill

0:05:25 > 0:05:28her personal support. I would act as a sincere thank you to the Prime

0:05:28 > 0:05:34Minister for that. Rounding off this stage of my thanks to those, I have

0:05:34 > 0:05:38to mention the Leader of the Opposition, his leadership on the

0:05:38 > 0:05:42issue and his back-up I have received from his office, the

0:05:42 > 0:05:46leader's offers, have been an invaluable support to me. Indeed, I

0:05:46 > 0:05:53think we can say that we have seldom seen such a unanimous range of

0:05:53 > 0:06:01support. We have 11 members, seven of them represent all Southern

0:06:01 > 0:06:07political parties in this house. I think if we can carry that level of

0:06:07 > 0:06:10unanimity and commitment through to the country and reach the consensus

0:06:10 > 0:06:16we badly need there, it would be very much in the interests of making

0:06:16 > 0:06:22sure that the bill becomes an act and that in due course, the act

0:06:22 > 0:06:29becomes a very effective one in achieving...Yes, I give way. I am

0:06:29 > 0:06:32grateful to him and can I preach attributed to go using this

0:06:32 > 0:06:37opportunity to bring the bill to the house. I hope the house gives the

0:06:37 > 0:06:40bill its endorsement today. Can I assure him that, if the government

0:06:40 > 0:06:44worked with him to ensure speedy passage of this bill, they will have

0:06:44 > 0:06:51the full support of the opposition benches.I am grateful for that. I

0:06:51 > 0:06:57think him very much indeed for it. His support has been consistent and

0:06:57 > 0:07:01welcome and a great help. If we needed any more help, I am pleased

0:07:01 > 0:07:06to tell the house wheels have that of the previous prime ministers,

0:07:06 > 0:07:09will meet Prime Minister John Major felt he could not support as and he

0:07:09 > 0:07:14said he did not know enough about it, which was sometimes a problem as

0:07:14 > 0:07:27Prime Minister. I said earlier that we should try to carry out now a

0:07:27 > 0:07:30message from a United house, reaching that sense of unity today,

0:07:30 > 0:07:37into the country, and raise public awareness and consciousness about

0:07:37 > 0:07:40the need and the reasons for the opt out solution we are proposing to

0:07:40 > 0:07:47bring into this. And I believe that if we can do that, that'll be a

0:07:47 > 0:07:52major part of what the vote today, the campaign we have been waging and

0:07:52 > 0:08:00the act itself, to achieve. That has been backed up and really reinforced

0:08:00 > 0:08:04by the public consultation the government itself launched. The

0:08:04 > 0:08:12minister may remember it was my honourable friend, who urged that

0:08:12 > 0:08:17calls upon the government. They responded quickly and to great

0:08:17 > 0:08:22effect. And I think that the response to it is of an

0:08:22 > 0:08:29unprecedented nature. I'm informed unofficially that the number of

0:08:29 > 0:08:32individual responses is now offered 11,000, an unprecedented level, by

0:08:32 > 0:08:39far the wreck of any public consultation of this kind. Those are

0:08:39 > 0:08:4211,000 separate individually written letters on the topic. If people

0:08:42 > 0:08:47don't think that is sufficient awareness yet, I'm hoping that by

0:08:47 > 0:08:51the end of the campaign, and that campaign does not finish until the

0:08:51 > 0:08:586th of March, that they will find an opportunity, it's online, easily

0:08:58 > 0:09:00found, the government website, they'll find an opportunity to

0:09:00 > 0:09:08participate in it. That predominantly positive response that

0:09:08 > 0:09:12relate to understand the public consultation is producing, it is

0:09:12 > 0:09:16hardly surprising, although very welcome, it's hardly surprising when

0:09:16 > 0:09:25you think that according to recent British Heart Foundation figures,

0:09:25 > 0:09:29when questioned, up to 90% of the public expressed themselves in

0:09:29 > 0:09:34principle in favour of donation, but only 36 get round to signing the

0:09:34 > 0:09:41register. I was in that position for a number of years and maybe some in

0:09:41 > 0:09:46this house are also in that position. It shows how effective in

0:09:46 > 0:09:51opt out register could be. The situation at the moment, why then we

0:09:51 > 0:09:56are reactively looking towards an opt out solution at this stage, is

0:09:56 > 0:10:02because, if we take England for example, the situation is

0:10:02 > 0:10:05disappointing. We have some of the lowest rates of consent for organ

0:10:05 > 0:10:09donation in the west of Europe, no family rates of consent being one of

0:10:09 > 0:10:16the major barriers to the donor rate actually increasing and in effect

0:10:16 > 0:10:22preventing one third of available organs from being used. They go

0:10:22 > 0:10:25straight to the grave or to the crematorium. None of us likes to

0:10:25 > 0:10:30think about the worst happening and it is challenging to have

0:10:30 > 0:10:33conversations with families and loved ones about one's wishes after

0:10:33 > 0:10:39death. But one of the principal aims of the bill must be to encourage

0:10:39 > 0:10:43these open discussions among families, so that the viewer wishes

0:10:43 > 0:10:47of an individual can be known to their nearest and dearest, which I

0:10:47 > 0:10:52think it's reasonable to say in the majority of cases, given the outcome

0:10:52 > 0:10:56of the consultation, given what we know from the polls, will be I'm

0:10:56 > 0:11:01sure that they wish to donate their organs after death. But there will

0:11:01 > 0:11:05be those who take a different view. There will be those who take a

0:11:05 > 0:11:09different view, they may even be one or two in the house it will feel

0:11:09 > 0:11:15that way and make their views known during the debate. What I say to

0:11:15 > 0:11:18them is, I in no way wish them to feel they are being railroaded into

0:11:18 > 0:11:22decisions they do not wish to take. Therefore, I would like to emphasise

0:11:22 > 0:11:25to those who feel they cannot lend their support or have doubts about

0:11:25 > 0:11:32the bill at this stage, that there will be soft soft opt out provision

0:11:32 > 0:11:36built into the bill and there will be a fair amount of discussion about

0:11:36 > 0:11:41them during the committee stage, I imagine. I will give way in one

0:11:41 > 0:11:47second. I would want to assure them that I will give my fullest personal

0:11:47 > 0:11:53commitment to approach those discussions around the opt out, in

0:11:53 > 0:11:58the spirit of sympathetic open-mindedness. I give way.I am

0:11:58 > 0:12:02here to support his bill, but I would ask if he could engage with

0:12:02 > 0:12:06the Jewish community to see if he can allay their concerns about how

0:12:06 > 0:12:17it might affect observance with their religious teachings.I am very

0:12:17 > 0:12:22pleased to take that intervention, because I do remember that one of

0:12:22 > 0:12:26the Prime Minister is now supporting us, Gordon Brown in fact, did try to

0:12:26 > 0:12:30introduce or wanted to introduce an opt out system, but came up against

0:12:30 > 0:12:39a fairly immovable block in the then Chief Rabbi, who said that he could

0:12:39 > 0:12:44not commit the Jewish community to supporting it, and that rather help

0:12:44 > 0:12:53matters up. They were then overtaken by other matters. But yes, we will

0:12:53 > 0:13:00do that and I have been in touch and we believe that the Council itself

0:13:00 > 0:13:07now has made an official statement supporting the bill.I thank him for

0:13:07 > 0:13:11giving way and he gradually him. He has put in a lot of hard work in

0:13:11 > 0:13:16securing this bill. As any member who has dealt with the bill in the

0:13:16 > 0:13:20House of Commons knows, that is a lot of effort behind-the-scenes. I

0:13:20 > 0:13:25think it's very important that the assurances on opt out, particularly

0:13:25 > 0:13:29to communities like the Jewish community, is very important that we

0:13:29 > 0:13:35convey that message and get further support on that basis.I am grateful

0:13:35 > 0:13:45to my honourable friend and colleague from our shared city. His

0:13:45 > 0:13:51support along those lines is most welcome to me. I notice my right

0:13:51 > 0:13:55honourable friend the Leader has come in. As I say again, I pay a

0:13:55 > 0:13:58warm personal tribute to your leadership on the issue and to the

0:13:58 > 0:14:02tremendous help I have received from your offers by way of back-up to the

0:14:02 > 0:14:10bill. I am deeply grateful. I also took the opportunity of expressing

0:14:10 > 0:14:13gratitude to the Prime Minister who has lent her personal support. I

0:14:13 > 0:14:20know he would welcome that as well. Did you want to intervene? I

0:14:20 > 0:14:23apologise for just arriving. I thank the honourable member for what he

0:14:23 > 0:14:27has said. It is wonderful he has got this bill introduced and I hope

0:14:27 > 0:14:30today the house can pass it and save an awful lot of people's lives in

0:14:30 > 0:14:37the future.That is indeed our room and while I should sound certain

0:14:37 > 0:14:43notes of caution about introducing it to make sure we get that increase

0:14:43 > 0:14:45and successfully utilise the increase in organ donation, there

0:14:45 > 0:14:49are certain things we have to watch out for and I mentioned those as

0:14:49 > 0:14:54part of a series approach to the issue. I know you would want to see

0:14:54 > 0:14:58his own government in June was and we have to implement. I would hope

0:14:58 > 0:15:12that would be the

0:15:12 > 0:15:19I get the message that time is of no essence and no liberty can press it.

0:15:19 > 0:15:26Let me note what has been achieved. We have a proud history of living

0:15:26 > 0:15:30donor transplants. October 30, 1960 at the Royal infirmary of Edinburgh

0:15:30 > 0:15:34and operation took place between identical twins because at that time

0:15:34 > 0:15:42the problems of rejection were still a long way from any kind of reliable

0:15:42 > 0:15:49solution. In November 1965 the first transplant in the UK from a

0:15:49 > 0:15:52non-heart beating donor was carried out, again at the Royal infirmary in

0:15:52 > 0:15:57Edinburgh. 1968 saw the first successful heart and liver

0:15:57 > 0:16:03transplants. That is a proud tradition and I think all of us at

0:16:03 > 0:16:08this stage, I'm sure the whole house would join with me in congratulating

0:16:08 > 0:16:11the NHS and all the staff concerned in this department on magnificent

0:16:11 > 0:16:19work. I'm sure the House would like that to be on the... Yes, I will.

0:16:19 > 0:16:23Thank you very much. Again, thank you for bringing this Bill forward.

0:16:23 > 0:16:29I think the point he is making and we will move onto is transplant

0:16:29 > 0:16:32surgery is now becoming routine and people are living normal and long

0:16:32 > 0:16:38lives a result. When I was growing up a heart transplant was like

0:16:38 > 0:16:42number one item on the news and now they are being carried out daily.

0:16:42 > 0:16:49But of course. The consequence of that is to some extent victims of

0:16:49 > 0:16:54our own success, we now have a growing need for organs and a

0:16:54 > 0:16:57growing waiting list which I will mention in a moment for them. That

0:16:57 > 0:17:02must be a problem concerning us all. It must be a problem which as a

0:17:02 > 0:17:05country we must seek a proper... I will give way to the honourable

0:17:05 > 0:17:12member.I thank the honourable member and congratulate him on his

0:17:12 > 0:17:15campaign. 90,000 residents in Doncaster are on the organ donation

0:17:15 > 0:17:21register and I am one of them and proud to be. 54 patients are

0:17:21 > 0:17:26awaiting transplants in Doncaster. Unfortunately my constituent Amy

0:17:26 > 0:17:32not, her brother died waiting for a double langue transplant. -- lung

0:17:32 > 0:17:36transplant. Is it not the case we need to secure more people who are

0:17:36 > 0:17:41prepared to be part of this service so we can save more lives?I think

0:17:41 > 0:17:46the whole house will be touched by the particular constituency case and

0:17:46 > 0:17:51the whole house will agree with what she says about the need to increase

0:17:51 > 0:17:57the availability of organs. We believe there is an opt out system

0:17:57 > 0:18:00where everybody very simply is part of the system unless they choose to

0:18:00 > 0:18:05opt out. I made it clear the opt out procedure would be simple and we

0:18:05 > 0:18:09will respect those who choose to do so. But if we can get this in, it

0:18:09 > 0:18:13will not make an immediate difference tomorrow, but I am sure

0:18:13 > 0:18:21in a period of years, as activity rates of those in our capacity to

0:18:21 > 0:18:26handle them successfully increase, I am sure the availability of organs

0:18:26 > 0:18:31will also increase. That is why I am keen to get the Bill through second

0:18:31 > 0:18:39reading today. Since those early successes, some 50,000 people have

0:18:39 > 0:18:44been given a second chance in life in the UK. A new lease of life with

0:18:44 > 0:18:49organ donation. I am sure the whole house will join me in expressing

0:18:49 > 0:18:56gratitude that we all feel to the NHS for it. Mr Speaker, if our

0:18:56 > 0:19:01history is a very proud one, we cannot rest on our laurels.

0:19:01 > 0:19:04Unaccountably in the last few years the steady increase in the rate of

0:19:04 > 0:19:09donation and transplantation has slowed down. In the last four years

0:19:09 > 0:19:15it has in effect in England plateaued. In this background that

0:19:15 > 0:19:20has been a grave concern that a certain inertia is setting in. The

0:19:20 > 0:19:27most recent figure for the UK as a whole for this makes disquieting

0:19:27 > 0:19:33reading. In March 2017, just last year, the most recent figures, there

0:19:33 > 0:19:39were 60,388 pensions registered on the list for a transplant. --

0:19:39 > 0:19:44patients. In the same year 437 died while on the active waiting list.

0:19:44 > 0:19:50More significant perhaps, 837 people in the same period once more died

0:19:50 > 0:19:53who had been removed from the active waiting list, because while on it

0:19:53 > 0:19:58they had become too unwell to receive a transplant. That is how

0:19:58 > 0:20:04serious the situation is. I will give way to the honourable member.I

0:20:04 > 0:20:09congratulate him on bringing this Bill, which I support. Many of my

0:20:09 > 0:20:13constituents have contacted me about children who have died for want of a

0:20:13 > 0:20:18suitable donor. I wonder if at some point in his speech he will refer to

0:20:18 > 0:20:22how the Bill will benefit children in need of an organ donor.A most

0:20:22 > 0:20:29moving aspect. We had a reception last night in which many of those

0:20:29 > 0:20:34children benefited from organ donations and people whose children

0:20:34 > 0:20:38were present and I will be coming to them in a moment. I will give way to

0:20:38 > 0:20:45the honourable member.Thank you, he is making an excellent speech. The

0:20:45 > 0:20:49sad reality of course is behind every organ donation is somebody who

0:20:49 > 0:20:57has died. In order for the organs to be donated. Yes, it is right and

0:20:57 > 0:21:02proper that we see facilities for children to be receiving donations

0:21:02 > 0:21:05but it is a sensitive time for parents who have seen the loss of a

0:21:05 > 0:21:11child of their own. Those whose organs would be donated. Will he

0:21:11 > 0:21:15comment on how we can deal sensitively with the families of

0:21:15 > 0:21:25those whose children have died? Well, yes. We would be happy to

0:21:25 > 0:21:29across-the-board, I think. My honourable friend draws attention to

0:21:29 > 0:21:33a particular area of importance in that. It is a vitally important

0:21:33 > 0:21:40area, but it is only one of the areas we hope to address. The other

0:21:40 > 0:21:43categories are equally important, as I am sure he would understand and

0:21:43 > 0:21:48agree. Mr Speaker, I do not claim my Bill alone is a panacea for our

0:21:48 > 0:21:57problems. But I do believe and I am convinced, I will give way in a

0:21:57 > 0:22:02second, I am convinced it is a vital prerequisite to impart fresh impetus

0:22:02 > 0:22:05to the increase in organ donation we know the country urgently needs. I

0:22:05 > 0:22:12will give way to the honourable member.Thank you for giving way. I

0:22:12 > 0:22:17congratulate him on introducing this Bill and I will give it my support.

0:22:17 > 0:22:24However, following on from the last intervention, Wales introduced

0:22:24 > 0:22:32presumed consent on organ donation and I believe in 2016-17, 33

0:22:32 > 0:22:37families were presumed consent was assumed, 13 families actually

0:22:37 > 0:22:44withdrew consent when they were asked. Can he assure me that in his

0:22:44 > 0:22:47legislation there will be room for relatives still to be consulted and

0:22:47 > 0:22:52withdraw that consent? It is after all being asked for at a very

0:22:52 > 0:22:58sensitive time. I want to make sure families have that latitude whilst

0:22:58 > 0:23:04busily trying to do everything to increase organ donation.Mr Speaker,

0:23:04 > 0:23:06the honourable lady raises a difficult point but an important

0:23:06 > 0:23:13one. As part of the soft opt out there will certainly be arrangements

0:23:13 > 0:23:17for families, close friends, to express their opinions and in all

0:23:17 > 0:23:21cases what is interesting here is Spain operates a system, because

0:23:21 > 0:23:26they do not have an opt out situation in effect, they do not

0:23:26 > 0:23:31have a register, they consult in every case with every family that

0:23:31 > 0:23:36they can get to on time on the register and as a result of those

0:23:36 > 0:23:38consultations and the conversations they can have with the families,

0:23:38 > 0:23:43they have a tremendous rate of consent. It can work the other way,

0:23:43 > 0:23:46of course. We should make for provision in the Bill for that.

0:23:46 > 0:23:51There should be careful wording for it. I invite those with particular

0:23:51 > 0:23:58interest to look at it. But the intent will be precisely... I pick

0:23:58 > 0:24:02it up from my honourable friend's intervention, there will be an

0:24:02 > 0:24:09effective veto given to families in that situation. I will take the lady

0:24:09 > 0:24:13first, if I may, the honourable member.Thank you for giving way and

0:24:13 > 0:24:17I also congratulate him on the Bill today which I support. On the Port

0:24:17 > 0:24:21of Spain does he agree that highlights of this Bill is not

0:24:21 > 0:24:27actually the action that part of the solution? -- on the point of Spain.

0:24:27 > 0:24:30They were looking to increase the rate of donor organs by investing

0:24:30 > 0:24:33heavily in transport and infrastructure and the National

0:24:33 > 0:24:43organ donation system.Yes, Mr Speaker, I shall mention some of the

0:24:43 > 0:24:51investment it will need to make sure it is a success, though moving at a

0:24:51 > 0:24:54higher level with much better infrastructure, certainly

0:24:54 > 0:24:59infrastructure for nursing is vital and the professional surgeon, the

0:24:59 > 0:25:01body of professional surgeons and specialist units available are much

0:25:01 > 0:25:06greater than they are in Spain. We recognise the success of the Spanish

0:25:06 > 0:25:11system. At its heart is an ability to get to the families and talk with

0:25:11 > 0:25:15them and that should take place in any case. We think when it takes

0:25:15 > 0:25:18place against the backdrop of a knocked out system it starts from a

0:25:18 > 0:25:22different position and is likely to produce hopefully more positive

0:25:22 > 0:25:31results. I think...I am grateful to the honourable gentleman. Further to

0:25:31 > 0:25:37his response by the member for Amersham, I think it is fair to say

0:25:37 > 0:25:39probably most if not all members here today are here because we

0:25:39 > 0:25:45support this measure and would like it in statute. But the honourable

0:25:45 > 0:25:50gentleman in his response said that friends and family would be

0:25:50 > 0:25:55consulted. I think we have to be very clear that if this is not to be

0:25:55 > 0:26:01brought into dispute and if we have a wave of withdrawals not to be

0:26:01 > 0:26:04generated, that is the last thing we want. He must be very precise and

0:26:04 > 0:26:09when he comes and when we hope this Bill gets into committee, will he

0:26:09 > 0:26:15make sure that issue is very clearly addressed, please?I am grateful, Mr

0:26:15 > 0:26:21Speaker, again from a very thoughtful intervention with good

0:26:21 > 0:26:25foresight. I will give him that assurance. As presenter of the Bill

0:26:25 > 0:26:29I will take a personal interest in seeing the right balance is struck.

0:26:29 > 0:26:33Do not forget it will be struck in a situation where the law of the land

0:26:33 > 0:26:37is one of opt out. I think that changes the very basis from the

0:26:37 > 0:26:40starting point of the discussion with the family will stop but we

0:26:40 > 0:26:45shall treat it with proper caution and respect which we know those

0:26:45 > 0:26:48moments of agony and awful decision taking pose for the families

0:26:48 > 0:26:53concerned. I will give way to the honourable member.I'm very grateful

0:26:53 > 0:26:57to him for giving way and I am here to support his Bill. As a Welsh MP I

0:26:57 > 0:27:01want to provide some reassurance. We already have legislation in Wales

0:27:01 > 0:27:06which has been working with an deal specifically with that point. But we

0:27:06 > 0:27:12do have the highest donation rates of any nation in the UK. I welcome

0:27:12 > 0:27:16his Bill and hope everyone will support it today.I'm very grateful

0:27:16 > 0:27:22for that intervention. I was coming onto the situation Wales. Which of

0:27:22 > 0:27:26course I'm fairly and prematurely has been prejudged as a failure,

0:27:26 > 0:27:34even by it seems eminent authorities such as the Nuffield Council on

0:27:34 > 0:27:40bioethics, on the basis of figures that were produced one year into a

0:27:40 > 0:27:50scheme that had only just started. The latest figures we have at the

0:27:50 > 0:27:54latest reviewed article in the BMJ suggests the following, I think it

0:27:54 > 0:27:59is worth while emphasising it as being some three or four years in

0:27:59 > 0:28:05and from an article that is actually dated in debris this year. It is up

0:28:05 > 0:28:11to date and does have some years to see the trend is available. --

0:28:11 > 0:28:14February this year. The respected journalist concerned in an article

0:28:14 > 0:28:18that has been peer-reviewed concluded Wales has experienced more

0:28:18 > 0:28:23registered doctors, less family refusals and more died Asians than

0:28:23 > 0:28:29anywhere else in the UK since the introduction of the system. -- and

0:28:29 > 0:28:32more efficiency than anywhere else in the UK since the introduction of

0:28:32 > 0:28:36the system. None of the concerns expressed by members right that this

0:28:36 > 0:28:42morning about deemed consent have materialised. The signs from Wales

0:28:42 > 0:28:47are very good. These are early days and I think we have to take note of

0:28:47 > 0:28:54the Corsham that the council brings to the case. We want to proceed

0:28:54 > 0:28:58carefully. -- Nuffield Council -- the caution that the Nuffield

0:28:58 > 0:29:03Council. One of the great things we have about the present system is it

0:29:03 > 0:29:09is trusted by the public. We cannot put that trust at risk and we will

0:29:09 > 0:29:13not. We will see it is well introduced and I must say what I

0:29:13 > 0:29:20have seen myself at first hand of NHS blood and transplantation, it is

0:29:20 > 0:29:25a well-organised outfit. We do have a functioning register. We know what

0:29:25 > 0:29:31we are doing and we are building up a nursing capability which is

0:29:31 > 0:29:36central as we are building up and some investment will be needed for

0:29:36 > 0:29:40the facility. Any growth in demand will lead to a growth in, or a

0:29:40 > 0:29:45growth in the requirement for facilities. I say to the minister

0:29:45 > 0:29:49while she is looking rather grim at the moment, that is better! She will

0:29:49 > 0:29:58have to make sure that while the NHS is very much in favour of this as an

0:29:58 > 0:30:01organisation, I quit a figure in a moment, but it is very encouraging

0:30:01 > 0:30:08that they think we can benefit in terms of increased organs and save

0:30:08 > 0:30:13lives. -- quote in a moment. But the requirements for additional

0:30:13 > 0:30:17resources must be met. All I can say to honourable members in that

0:30:17 > 0:30:22respect is the amount of money, a small requirement in resources,

0:30:22 > 0:30:26software, hardware, some facilities, basically pretty much in the

0:30:26 > 0:30:30software and training of the nurses is minuscule in relation to the good

0:30:30 > 0:30:37it can do. The sheer joy that you can see in those around you,

0:30:37 > 0:30:41particularly the children who have had the benefit of a chance. I will

0:30:41 > 0:30:47give way to the honourable member.

0:30:47 > 0:30:53case to I am very grateful to him. He sort of glossed over Wales and

0:30:53 > 0:30:58his remarks. But the Welsh assembly government research said that the

0:30:58 > 0:31:02introduction of opt out has had no impact on a number of organ donors

0:31:02 > 0:31:09and Wales. Some reports say this has led to a reduction in the number of

0:31:09 > 0:31:13donors. I just wondered what measures he had in his bill, what

0:31:13 > 0:31:19learning he had taken from Wales, to learn from the flaws there may have

0:31:19 > 0:31:28been in that system?That is a very moderate intervention from him and I

0:31:28 > 0:31:33am grateful for that. I think he looking, he's probably looking at

0:31:33 > 0:31:42the recent remarks and quotes from the Nuffield Council, which relate

0:31:42 > 0:31:50back to a year, if I'm not mistaken, 2016, we are now in 2018. The

0:31:50 > 0:31:54situation has evolved and the figure I recommend to him in the British

0:31:54 > 0:31:58medical Journal, I leave it there for him to read. It is a very full

0:31:58 > 0:32:06account. It is very hopeful of the situation in Wales. We will monitor

0:32:06 > 0:32:12it carefully and we will be cautious and practical and realistic in our

0:32:12 > 0:32:20approach to the introduction of the system in the UK.I give way. I can

0:32:20 > 0:32:27give him some good news on Wales. This was pioneering legislation and

0:32:27 > 0:32:30it was discussed very much when I was Secretary of State for Wales.

0:32:30 > 0:32:34But I was looking at the details on some of the statistics from Wales

0:32:34 > 0:32:40and this latest report on organ donation and transplant activity. He

0:32:40 > 0:32:47will be please to note that back in 2013, the number of people opted in

0:32:47 > 0:32:54to the organ donation register in Wales was up 1 million 213. For the

0:32:54 > 0:33:03first three quarters of the year is 2017/18, that number has now

0:33:03 > 0:33:06increased to 1,220,331 people. And I think that is very positive news

0:33:06 > 0:33:13from Wales that there are more people opted in to that register.

0:33:13 > 0:33:17Because the figure was so low back in 2013, the Welsh government

0:33:17 > 0:33:21decided to move to an opt out system. I must agree with her and

0:33:21 > 0:33:24disagree with those who will not look at the most recent facts we

0:33:24 > 0:33:29have, for some reason or other, they just want to look at them and move

0:33:29 > 0:33:34with the situation that is developing, I just say that yes,

0:33:34 > 0:33:38from that situation which is bad, they went for an opt out system.

0:33:38 > 0:33:43There was a period of bidding in, a period when there seemed to be no

0:33:43 > 0:33:49change, but the most recent figures are showing a marked improvement. I

0:33:49 > 0:34:01am sure we can all rejoice in that. That is a fact and one that we can

0:34:01 > 0:34:10all take... I will give way. We can take great satisfaction from.My

0:34:10 > 0:34:15interest in this matter occurred with this in who came here, a young

0:34:15 > 0:34:19man, and lobbied. A year later, I attended his funeral, because he did

0:34:19 > 0:34:25not get the transplant, sadly, that he wanted. But he had suffered

0:34:25 > 0:34:30enormously in the preceding period. But the period now has gone by, we

0:34:30 > 0:34:34have had the opt out in Wales and the situation is, what other people

0:34:34 > 0:34:38do with the statistics, is that people are living in Wales who

0:34:38 > 0:34:42would've died before the law was passed and people are dying

0:34:42 > 0:34:48unnecessarily in England.I am grateful to him and I would like to

0:34:48 > 0:34:52say that it was indeed his bill that sparked off my own personal interest

0:34:52 > 0:34:56and IP great tribute to the work you did in preparing that bill, which we

0:34:56 > 0:35:02have adopted almost in its entirety. He will be pleased to know that we

0:35:02 > 0:35:05are hopeful that his bill from the beginning will find its way along

0:35:05 > 0:35:09side my own bill on the statute book. I know that will give him

0:35:09 > 0:35:13great pleasure. What he says about that individual case is certainly

0:35:13 > 0:35:20true. The positive news I mentioned from the NHS, very cautious

0:35:20 > 0:35:26assessment from their part, they say that, provided the opt out system,

0:35:26 > 0:35:31and that is the quintessential starting point for all these, is

0:35:31 > 0:35:37introduced and backed up but the necessarily revenue and capital

0:35:37 > 0:35:46spending, they expect and up to 500 lives a year could be saved by the

0:35:46 > 0:35:53Organ Donation (Deemed Consent) Bill.I am delighted to appear as

0:35:53 > 0:35:57one of his supporters on the bill. I'm very pleased to have my name on

0:35:57 > 0:36:02this legislation. There is only one thing I hope he will be able to look

0:36:02 > 0:36:07at in committee on this, it's the issue of deemed consent around

0:36:07 > 0:36:10people who lose capacity towards the end of their lives. I hope there

0:36:10 > 0:36:13will be more clarity coming forward in committee to enable people who

0:36:13 > 0:36:18have made a decision, who want to make their organs available, if it's

0:36:18 > 0:36:22just their brain that is no longer of much use to anybody else and they

0:36:22 > 0:36:26do not have the capacity, I hope it would be clear about the

0:36:26 > 0:36:33circumstances when people lose capacity towards the end of their

0:36:33 > 0:36:36lives, when they are still able for the rest of the body to be of use to

0:36:36 > 0:36:40others.The fact that he agreed to be a supportive of the bill, his

0:36:40 > 0:36:44name appears on the face of the bill, he will be pleased to know. He

0:36:44 > 0:36:52raises an area of great concern. If something appears a committee stage,

0:36:52 > 0:36:57it's not for second reading and I will go into that for now.I thank

0:36:57 > 0:37:00him for bringing the bill to the nose, which I will of course

0:37:00 > 0:37:04support. He mentions a modest investment in capital resources in

0:37:04 > 0:37:09order to give effect to this when it has become law, but does he not

0:37:09 > 0:37:13agree with me that actually, by saving lives, by making people

0:37:13 > 0:37:18healthy enough to see the full part in society, we will actually be

0:37:18 > 0:37:22increasing the ability of our country to succeed and also,

0:37:22 > 0:37:26although the this is obviously a secondary issue in comparison with

0:37:26 > 0:37:30the saving of life, we will be reducing some of the ridiculous

0:37:30 > 0:37:33amount of spend on keeping people just lives when they need organ

0:37:33 > 0:37:41donations.While entirely agreeing with him and thanking him for that

0:37:41 > 0:37:46intervention, I would rather not go down the route of cost benefit

0:37:46 > 0:37:50analysis. These matters are a case of life and death and I think it's

0:37:50 > 0:37:55best left there, and we want to save lives, lives we know can be saved.I

0:37:55 > 0:38:03give way. I strongly support this bill. Alongside this measure, and a

0:38:03 > 0:38:06number of the other things he has described, does he agree that the

0:38:06 > 0:38:12most important thing we can do is to have that conversation with our

0:38:12 > 0:38:17families and our loved ones, to make it absolutely clear to them that,

0:38:17 > 0:38:22when we're gone, that we wish, whatever bits of us of any use,

0:38:22 > 0:38:26should be given to others, so that they might continue to live. Isn't

0:38:26 > 0:38:31that what we really need to do, to make sure that as many as possible,

0:38:31 > 0:38:35when a difficult conversation comes to be had over a loved one who has

0:38:35 > 0:38:43died in a hospital bed, the families say, of course.I entirely agree

0:38:43 > 0:38:48with him. I don't know if he was in the chamber when I made the

0:38:48 > 0:38:52particular remarks about the importance of family conversations.

0:38:52 > 0:38:59There are absolutely vital. The importance of public awareness, I

0:38:59 > 0:39:00believe the government consultation contributes enormously to public

0:39:00 > 0:39:10awareness. Now we're certainly example of needing to be registered

0:39:10 > 0:39:16in the hall. I certainly have no intention of even considering. And I

0:39:16 > 0:39:20believe the other great contribution we can make to this in personal

0:39:20 > 0:39:24terms is to have those conversations in our own families and to encourage

0:39:24 > 0:39:27others to do so. But public awareness would necessarily lead to

0:39:27 > 0:39:33that. We know it is at that moment when families are confronted with

0:39:33 > 0:39:37the awful situation, that very often they back off. Sometimes even

0:39:37 > 0:39:40overriding the wishes of the deceased, who happens to be a

0:39:40 > 0:39:50registered donor. We can do no more important work than have those

0:39:50 > 0:39:55difficult conversations and encourage others to do so as well.

0:39:55 > 0:39:59Just on the point of people being more aware of the differences it can

0:39:59 > 0:40:05make. Yesterday I founder of the time about the British Transplant

0:40:05 > 0:40:09Games which are happening, where people who have either been live

0:40:09 > 0:40:13donors or had an organ transplant is, actually take part in the games

0:40:13 > 0:40:18event. This is happening in Birmingham on the 2nd of August. I

0:40:18 > 0:40:22thought that was wonderful. I met a woman yesterday who was a live

0:40:22 > 0:40:26donor, who was taking part in the games with the person she had

0:40:26 > 0:40:30deleted and Oregon to. I thought this was wonderful. Nobody wants to

0:40:30 > 0:40:33think about the worst thing happening to their family or anyone

0:40:33 > 0:40:38they love, but it would be a wonderful thing to think that

0:40:38 > 0:40:41anything I could give when I'm gone would go to someone who should go

0:40:41 > 0:40:45and live a fulfilling life and a life that involves taking part in

0:40:45 > 0:40:50some kind of sporting games. I think we should be thinking about the

0:40:50 > 0:40:54future and the real differences coming for so many people. I am so

0:40:54 > 0:40:57proud to be stood there with you at this day and to be supporting your

0:40:57 > 0:41:05bill.I feel inclined to say, I rest my case! I can't quite do that just

0:41:05 > 0:41:10yet. I notice with Dolby interventions, I think will a time,

0:41:10 > 0:41:27I will presume noted conclusion if I may. If we save 500 at avoidable

0:41:27 > 0:41:34deaths because of organ donation, the present waiting list of 6500,

0:41:34 > 0:41:39with changed policies, some 500 in effect on a life sentence, and the

0:41:39 > 0:41:47Bill, with -- and they will, without a Oregon becoming available, die

0:41:47 > 0:41:52within the next year. That just simply is not good enough. I believe

0:41:52 > 0:41:58we can do better as a nation. We should through the creation of the

0:41:58 > 0:42:02NHS, something no other nation achieved. Here I think we can be

0:42:02 > 0:42:08pioneers in making transplantation more successful, and is doing it

0:42:08 > 0:42:14principally through greater organ donation. I don't think my bill has

0:42:14 > 0:42:19answered all the questions we have discussed, or others that need

0:42:19 > 0:42:24addressing in the course of this debate. But I do believe and I am

0:42:24 > 0:42:31convinced it is a necessary start to get the increasing momentum, the the

0:42:31 > 0:42:35impetus we lost. That's why we introduced it in Wales, moving to an

0:42:35 > 0:42:43opt out system. That's why I bring it to the house today. My honourable

0:42:43 > 0:42:48friend was speaking about watching the games. We had many at the

0:42:48 > 0:42:54reception given by the Daily Mirror in the Terrace room. There it was

0:42:54 > 0:43:07very moving, I met Max's Mum, as she's come to be known, Mrs Emma

0:43:07 > 0:43:12Johnson. She was giving us up-to-date news on Max. He's become

0:43:12 > 0:43:19a face of the campaign. I make no excuse for being emotional about it.

0:43:19 > 0:43:23He is still doing well now. Last September, he went back to school

0:43:23 > 0:43:26part-time. They are hoping next year he will be back at school full-time.

0:43:26 > 0:43:31Even more pleasing than that is something I did not know one was

0:43:31 > 0:43:35brought to my attention by the member for North Devon, who

0:43:35 > 0:43:43represents the donor family. Their daughter was killed in a terrible

0:43:43 > 0:43:54car crash, most unfortunate incident, who gave her heart. Mrs

0:43:54 > 0:43:57Johnson was saying how much she looked forward to meeting the

0:43:57 > 0:44:02family. She said, I wonder what they'll feel when they put their

0:44:02 > 0:44:08hands on Max's heart and feel their daughter's heart is still beating

0:44:08 > 0:44:15them. If the member for North Devon would like to take part, I am sure

0:44:15 > 0:44:19he would catch a ride in due course, Mr Speaker. Many of isn't in this

0:44:19 > 0:44:24house have one way or another been affected. I would like to mention my

0:44:24 > 0:44:28honourable friend for Sunderland Central. His daughter unfortunately

0:44:28 > 0:44:35could not come. She has been now for 12 months on daily dialysis, waiting

0:44:35 > 0:44:45for a kidney and I know she will also want to catch a ride. I hope

0:44:45 > 0:44:52the party opposite will take this in the best spirit, I must thank the

0:44:52 > 0:44:57Daily Mirror for its magnificent campaign on this issue. It shows

0:44:57 > 0:45:01what a free press fighting courageously can achieve on a brave

0:45:01 > 0:45:10cause. I thank them for it and I know they feel they have achieved

0:45:10 > 0:45:19something, something more than other newspapers achieve in 24 pages.

0:45:19 > 0:45:26Thanks to the Mirror, he said, nothing compared to the happiness we

0:45:26 > 0:45:32feel at the paper every time we see a successful transplant as a result

0:45:32 > 0:45:41of our campaign, in part, taking place, especially among the young.

0:45:42 > 0:45:46I have had many letters and I do not feel it appropriate to read... Let

0:45:46 > 0:45:55me say that I believe today that the House has a I will not say unique,

0:45:55 > 0:45:58but an opportunity that might not occur for several years if we do not

0:45:58 > 0:46:05take it today. It is an opportunity to introduce a Bill and if we

0:46:05 > 0:46:10succeed in the second reading today a Bill which could be enacted by the

0:46:10 > 0:46:17end of this year and in effect could already be making an effect in the

0:46:17 > 0:46:22year after that. I believe it is an opportunity. I believe the House is

0:46:22 > 0:46:26in the mood to rise to the occasion and I am sure we are going to seize

0:46:26 > 0:46:33this opportunity to pass a Bill, to become an act that we regard as an

0:46:33 > 0:46:39act for life.Thank you, Mr Speaker. The question is the Bill be now read

0:46:39 > 0:46:45a second time. Dame Cheryl Gillan. Thank you for calling me so early in

0:46:45 > 0:46:50this debate. I add my congratulations to the member for

0:46:50 > 0:46:54Coventry North West for the compassionate way in which he has

0:46:54 > 0:47:00moved his Bill. And for bringing this Bill before the House. I hope

0:47:00 > 0:47:04I'm not presuming too much that I think there is good support on both

0:47:04 > 0:47:10sides of the House for this legislation, but more importantly I

0:47:10 > 0:47:12believe the minister who will be speaking from the front bench will

0:47:12 > 0:47:19also be giving her support to this legislation. For me it is a bit like

0:47:19 > 0:47:27deja vu. Because I went through all of these arguments back in 2010,

0:47:27 > 0:47:30when the Welsh Assembly was looking at introducing the human

0:47:30 > 0:47:40transplantation Wales act, finally coming into force or was put into

0:47:40 > 0:47:47legislation in 2013 and took effect in 2015 in Wales. The permitting of

0:47:47 > 0:47:54a knocked out system or this presumed consent is quite a complex

0:47:54 > 0:48:02concept. -- opt out system. It received many objections at the time

0:48:02 > 0:48:05from a large number of people on a large number of grounds, to be

0:48:05 > 0:48:11truthful. I was approached by the kidney Wales Federation. They did a

0:48:11 > 0:48:15fantastic job, along with a lot of other organisations in lobbying

0:48:15 > 0:48:19politicians and trying to explain the position of families that were

0:48:19 > 0:48:26waiting for organs and families who had been approached to donate the

0:48:26 > 0:48:32organs of a deceased relative. And indeed many times the debate got

0:48:32 > 0:48:42very heated. Also they gave advice to a lot of myths in many cases.

0:48:42 > 0:48:46When looking at the evidence for this, I have always found the

0:48:46 > 0:48:50medical profession and people surrounding bereaved relatives or

0:48:50 > 0:48:54relatives about to become bereaved have always handled these matters

0:48:54 > 0:49:01with great sensitivity and good outcomes. Indeed, statistics show

0:49:01 > 0:49:04the legislation in Wales as I mentioned in my intervention still

0:49:04 > 0:49:09allows families to withdraw the so-called deemed consent, meaning

0:49:09 > 0:49:11their views are taken into consideration which I think is very

0:49:11 > 0:49:19important. But one of the things I looked at was the success rate of

0:49:19 > 0:49:24the 2008 organ donation task force which was in operation. And indeed

0:49:24 > 0:49:31that helped increase donation rates greatly in the five years of, from

0:49:31 > 0:49:37its operation in 2008 there was a 50% increase in donors and a 30.5%

0:49:37 > 0:49:43increase in transplants. That was indeed impressive. At the time I was

0:49:43 > 0:49:46exceedingly worried that by introducing legislation that was

0:49:46 > 0:49:50controversial we may do some damage to a programme and campaign yielding

0:49:50 > 0:49:56positive results. I think that is something that needs to be taken

0:49:56 > 0:50:00into consideration. The truth of the matter is that there are more people

0:50:00 > 0:50:06on the donation list than there are organs available. I think for many

0:50:06 > 0:50:10people in the chamber and beyond it is also worth noting that there is a

0:50:10 > 0:50:20particular problem in the population on the list because 23% of people

0:50:20 > 0:50:25waiting for organ donation were people from the BME population and

0:50:25 > 0:50:31only 1.2% of people on the register at the time were from the BME

0:50:31 > 0:50:38community. That big disparity was causing a lot of aggravation. Can I

0:50:38 > 0:50:44just say that I was very uncertain about the legislation in Wales? I am

0:50:44 > 0:50:47pleased to stand here as a politician and admit openly I had

0:50:47 > 0:50:53changed my mind. I think there is no disgrace in changing your mind. I

0:50:53 > 0:50:57think when the tax change you change your mind. I think it is really

0:50:57 > 0:51:04quite important. -- when the facts change. One of the reasons why,

0:51:04 > 0:51:10although I have changed the names as well, is because I have a dear

0:51:10 > 0:51:16friend, for the purposes of this debate I will call him James -- Jane

0:51:16 > 0:51:22and Jane has a son I had known since he was born. I will call him John.

0:51:22 > 0:51:30John has got primary cholangitis which is a chronic liver disease

0:51:30 > 0:51:36whereby the PAL ducks, passages carrying the Bal from the liver to

0:51:36 > 0:51:40the intestines are blocked and narrowed by information. -- carrying

0:51:40 > 0:51:46the bowels. And the liver will stop functioning. Frankly the symptoms

0:51:46 > 0:51:52can include tiredness, aching, itching, abdominal pain, jaundice,

0:51:52 > 0:51:59chills and fevers. The progression of the disease, although very

0:51:59 > 0:52:04variable, usually leads to one conclusion, that the patient needs a

0:52:04 > 0:52:09liver transplant. John has been told because of a shortage of transplants

0:52:09 > 0:52:13you have to be in cirrhosis before you put on the list and then you

0:52:13 > 0:52:17have to wait for a match. By that time you might not be well enough to

0:52:17 > 0:52:24have one. And to be close to a family and to see the effect it has

0:52:24 > 0:52:31upon them, Jane wrote to me and she said "This has obviously affected

0:52:31 > 0:52:37the whole family. John still lives with us and we are in fact his

0:52:37 > 0:52:42carers as we know he will only get worse in time. We do not known how

0:52:42 > 0:52:48much time he has but he cannot plan for his future. Physically and

0:52:48 > 0:52:51mentally it takes a great toll on him because he does not known if he

0:52:51 > 0:52:54will get a transplant when he needs one. Organ donation would help a

0:52:54 > 0:53:02great deal in this". When you have a friend and a boy that is now a man

0:53:02 > 0:53:06and a highly intelligent and wonderful human being in that

0:53:06 > 0:53:09position, I think you have got to reconsider where you stand on

0:53:09 > 0:53:16legislation like this. And the way I look at it, Mr Speaker is this

0:53:16 > 0:53:23legislation is not enough in itself, but it will do no harm and will

0:53:23 > 0:53:27again stimulate a debate and as long as it is continuing to be

0:53:27 > 0:53:31accompanied by campaigns to encourage people to register,

0:53:31 > 0:53:36encourage people to donate, that continued campaign I think will help

0:53:36 > 0:53:42raise the awareness that will help increase statistics as we did in the

0:53:42 > 0:53:48first five years following the organ donation task force. We are all

0:53:48 > 0:53:55living longer and who are we in this House to say that if we can prolong

0:53:55 > 0:53:59life and improve the quality-of-life are people that suffer from rare

0:53:59 > 0:54:07diseases, such as John, I think we should do so. I had to say that I

0:54:07 > 0:54:12will give this Bill a fair wind. Obviously the devil will be in the

0:54:12 > 0:54:16detail and we will need to look at the legislation carefully. And I

0:54:16 > 0:54:20would like us to consult and learn from the experience in Wales,

0:54:20 > 0:54:25because they will be a lot to learn from them having forged the way. I

0:54:25 > 0:54:29do not want a hard system like in Austria. That is not what I

0:54:29 > 0:54:34envisage. I still want the whole area to be surrounded by the Keren

0:54:34 > 0:54:40consideration of the medical profession. -- care and

0:54:40 > 0:54:44consideration. And latitude allowing for the families of people with

0:54:44 > 0:54:50genuine reasons not to take part in this. But I do want to increase

0:54:50 > 0:54:55people on the register and I want increased organ donation and more

0:54:55 > 0:55:00lives saved. I give the Bill a fair wind.Thank you, Mr Speaker for

0:55:00 > 0:55:06calling me to speak in this most important debate. I want to

0:55:06 > 0:55:09congratulate my honourable friend, the member for Coventry North West,

0:55:09 > 0:55:13that for his success in the ballot, no mean achievement, to get a

0:55:13 > 0:55:18private members Bill and then for choosing this most important topic

0:55:18 > 0:55:22on which he has brought forward today. I have to say I have always

0:55:22 > 0:55:29supported for many years the opt out system as opposed to opt in. What I

0:55:29 > 0:55:34will talk about today has not brought my decision that this is the

0:55:34 > 0:55:40right thing but it amplified the importance of the decision. I also

0:55:40 > 0:55:44pay tribute to my honourable friend the member for Barnsley Central who

0:55:44 > 0:55:49has done so much good campaigning on the issue. And the Daily Mirror, who

0:55:49 > 0:55:53have already been mentioned for their campaign. And the Prime

0:55:53 > 0:55:56Minister and government for their statement this week in support which

0:55:56 > 0:56:02is very important. What I want to talk about today is the story of my

0:56:02 > 0:56:08family. It is something I really do, talk about my family in public,

0:56:08 > 0:56:14because it is neither entered public life, not them. But there is nothing

0:56:14 > 0:56:19special or unusual about my family. What has happened in the last 18

0:56:19 > 0:56:24months to us could happen to anybody. Young or old, rich or poor.

0:56:24 > 0:56:28There is no differentiation when this kind of thing happens. It

0:56:28 > 0:56:32highlights the reality of the need to change the law to a position of

0:56:32 > 0:56:40deemed consent. I have four grown-up children, all now either married or

0:56:40 > 0:56:45with long-term partners. I have five wonderful grandchildren. We are a

0:56:45 > 0:56:49very close family and I am lucky we all lived within two miles of each

0:56:49 > 0:56:54other in Sunderland. That is when I am not down here. My eldest daughter

0:56:54 > 0:57:00Rebecca is now 36. She is married and has a six-year old daughter. She

0:57:00 > 0:57:05was referred to the renal unit of the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle

0:57:05 > 0:57:09after routine tests showed a problem with her kidney function. That was

0:57:09 > 0:57:17October 2000 16. Not long ago. -- 2016. After about a week in hospital

0:57:17 > 0:57:21it was clear Rebecca was quite ill. With significantly reduced kidney

0:57:21 > 0:57:28function, which may at some point in future lead to needing a transplant.

0:57:28 > 0:57:32At that point that is where we thought we were. It was a big enough

0:57:32 > 0:57:36shop in itself. But the medical team at Freeman Hospital thought they

0:57:36 > 0:57:43could stabilise her condition. -- shock in itself. Rebecca had been OK

0:57:43 > 0:57:48up to that point. She had some issues health wise but was OK. The

0:57:48 > 0:57:54diagnosis of chronic kidney disease was a big shock for Rebecca, me, our

0:57:54 > 0:58:00family and friends. And to face the reality of the fragility of life is

0:58:00 > 0:58:06very hard. At any time. But facing it with one of my children, although

0:58:06 > 0:58:12an adult, was one of the hardest things I have ever had to face. The

0:58:12 > 0:58:16shock my daughter, who until recently had been a healthy and

0:58:16 > 0:58:23happy young woman, was quite a serious runner in her spare time,

0:58:23 > 0:58:27regularly running half marathons and occasionally a marathon and in fact

0:58:27 > 0:58:32only in the weeks before she was ill in that October she gained a place

0:58:32 > 0:58:36for the London Marathon last year. I had to say she did not do it,

0:58:36 > 0:58:42obviously. For somebody like that to suddenly becomes so ill, the shock

0:58:42 > 0:58:47of that is impossible to describe. I had to say she did not get her

0:58:47 > 0:58:50fitness drive from her mother, who goes and watches her running but

0:58:50 > 0:58:56doesn't do it. Rebecca's condition sadly deteriorated very quickly from

0:58:56 > 0:59:00that point. In June last year she was having surgery to enable her to

0:59:00 > 0:59:05start dialysis. One of the only positive things of the general

0:59:05 > 0:59:08election campaign from my point of view was that I was at home for six

0:59:08 > 0:59:13weeks. During the time her health was deteriorating rapidly I was

0:59:13 > 0:59:18actually able to drop everything and get to the hospital quickly which is

0:59:18 > 0:59:24harder when you are 300 miles away. She started dialysis in July last

0:59:24 > 0:59:30year. I want to talk a little bit about the daily reality of Rebecca's

0:59:30 > 0:59:36live. In the two or three months leading up to having surgery, she

0:59:36 > 0:59:42became increasingly unwell. To a point where on a daily basis the

0:59:42 > 0:59:49last few weeks, she was lying on a sofa when she got up, she was not

0:59:49 > 0:59:54eating particularly well, if at all, a slice of toast, a bowl of cereal,

0:59:54 > 1:00:00because when you have kidney failure you feel very sick and just

1:00:00 > 1:00:04generally are not well and had no energy. She could not really walk to

1:00:04 > 1:00:17the end of the street.

1:00:17 > 1:00:21Dialysis, when it arrived, although when it was mentioned to us at

1:00:21 > 1:00:26first, it was a terrifying prospect, it actually has made her have a

1:00:26 > 1:00:33quality of life again. She is back at work, but she does have

1:00:33 > 1:00:40restrictions. She does what is called PD dialysis. She has a

1:00:40 > 1:00:47machine at home and links on to it every night. For eight hours, she

1:00:47 > 1:00:52does dialysis. She is back at work, she has a very strict diet, and for

1:00:52 > 1:00:56Rebecca, that means no coffee, chocolate or cheese, three things

1:00:56 > 1:01:07she loves. She is here and she is alive and that's is, whenever she

1:01:07 > 1:01:11has a bad day, and she does have bad days emotionally, because it is a

1:01:11 > 1:01:15very difficult thing to be dealing with, and she will say, I am sick of

1:01:15 > 1:01:20this dialysis. And I say, just think, what is the alternative and

1:01:20 > 1:01:26that very quickly focuses your mind and you pick yourself up. As a

1:01:26 > 1:01:30family, and close friends, we have all rallied round to support Rebecca

1:01:30 > 1:01:34and each other through this challenging time. And I want to talk

1:01:34 > 1:01:42a little bit about the impact of this kind of illness. Of course.My

1:01:42 > 1:01:47heart goes out to you, as I'm sure everybody on both sides of the

1:01:47 > 1:01:50highs, it does as well, for what you have been going through. I would

1:01:50 > 1:01:57like briefly to talk about dialysis. A constituent of mine, a very young

1:01:57 > 1:02:02girl. This is a Facebook post and I think it hits home to a really young

1:02:02 > 1:02:12child. Today, 1608 days of total kidney failure. 19,000 hours spent

1:02:12 > 1:02:16on dialysis. Still waiting for that precious call for the match to be

1:02:16 > 1:02:21found. Would she agree that when we think of children and people like

1:02:21 > 1:02:25your own daughter, it's very hard not to support this bill today?

1:02:25 > 1:02:32Absolutely.Absolutely, and it's indiscriminate to it strikes. When

1:02:32 > 1:02:38you attend, and I do attend just about every appointment with

1:02:38 > 1:02:42Rebecca, he see people, from very young to older people, from all

1:02:42 > 1:02:46walks of life. It's absolutely indiscriminate and it's

1:02:46 > 1:02:50heartbreaking seeing people, every one of those people has a family and

1:02:50 > 1:02:56the story. It is very difficult. I want to talk a little bit about the

1:02:56 > 1:03:02impact of this kind of illness on the wider family, because, as

1:03:02 > 1:03:04Rebecca's health rapidly deteriorated, she had to be off work

1:03:04 > 1:03:09sick quite a lot. And has had some considerable time of sick and even

1:03:09 > 1:03:14though she is back at work, there was a day this week when she was not

1:03:14 > 1:03:19well in the middle of the day and had to come home. Dialysis does not

1:03:19 > 1:03:25mean you are fit, well, healthy and leading a normal life. She has been

1:03:25 > 1:03:30very lucky. Her employers, it solicitors in Newcastle, have been

1:03:30 > 1:03:34an amazing support to her. They have done everything they can to help

1:03:34 > 1:03:40out. They have done fundraisers to raise money for a kidney charities.

1:03:40 > 1:03:45And particularly, her colleagues Kay and Lindsay, if I am trying to get

1:03:45 > 1:03:49to the hospital she takes a suddenly ill, they come from work and sit

1:03:49 > 1:03:54with and stay with her until one of the family can get there. And I do

1:03:54 > 1:03:59want to thank them publicly, because there are many people in this

1:03:59 > 1:04:03situation who are not so lucky and face losing their jobs, and the

1:04:03 > 1:04:08hardships and all the problems that creates. So I think it is important

1:04:08 > 1:04:15to say thank you to people who have been fantastic. I next want to

1:04:15 > 1:04:18mention the renal unit at the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle, who

1:04:18 > 1:04:22are not only a world-class unit, but also of some of the most amazing and

1:04:22 > 1:04:27dedicated staff I have ever come across. From the time you walk

1:04:27 > 1:04:31through the door at the outpatient unit, the receptionist and is always

1:04:31 > 1:04:36smiling and all was well coming, always looking after you, right

1:04:36 > 1:04:40through to the most senior doctors. And we have seen a lot of different

1:04:40 > 1:04:45doctors as this illness has progressed. The entire team are

1:04:45 > 1:04:50amazing, particularly at the moment, the PD nurses looking after

1:04:50 > 1:04:56Rebecca's analysis. They look after Rebecca, but they also look after

1:04:56 > 1:04:59her family. They have got to know us all, because we have all been at

1:04:59 > 1:05:03different stages with her. They are the essence of everything that is

1:05:03 > 1:05:07great about our health service. Working under the enormous pressures

1:05:07 > 1:05:12on their time and resources, but they always have time for you. I

1:05:12 > 1:05:16want to see a personal thank you to them. I know it is not a political

1:05:16 > 1:05:22debate as such, but I am a politician, so I hope you give me a

1:05:22 > 1:05:25moment's licence. I will say that the health service staff need at the

1:05:25 > 1:05:29rise and the NHS needs more investment, because I just think

1:05:29 > 1:05:33they are such amazing people and they were truly make the difference

1:05:33 > 1:05:37every single day to people living and dying. The impact on our family

1:05:37 > 1:05:41has been huge. You go through a period of shock and disbelief and

1:05:41 > 1:05:45anger as to why Rebecca. And more than one doctor has said to us

1:05:45 > 1:05:48through this period that it should not be happening to her, she has

1:05:48 > 1:05:53been a fit and healthy young woman who has done everything right in

1:05:53 > 1:05:57terms of looking after her health. They can find the reason why this

1:05:57 > 1:06:01has happened. The emotions you go through is like a roller-coaster.

1:06:01 > 1:06:07It's not just the direct impact of what is happening medically to

1:06:07 > 1:06:09Rebecca, but the emotional impact of seeing what is happening to her

1:06:09 > 1:06:15might mean that your daughter might not be there when I am still here,

1:06:15 > 1:06:21which is not something any parent ever wants to consider. But it is

1:06:21 > 1:06:24also, although my children have grown up, they are having to deal

1:06:24 > 1:06:32with seeing their mother is coping than I normally am, and Diame the

1:06:32 > 1:06:36fairly strident, copying kind of woman normally, but also for all of

1:06:36 > 1:06:39them, dealing with their sister might not be here and that is all

1:06:39 > 1:06:44very difficult. We have rallied round and supported each other and

1:06:44 > 1:06:48we remain very positive. Rebecca is very lucky that she has a brother

1:06:48 > 1:06:54and sisters, my sister, her husband Andy great mother who have all

1:06:54 > 1:06:58played their role and continue to play their role in supporting this

1:06:58 > 1:07:04journey we are on. It is very difficult being on call for the

1:07:04 > 1:07:09phone call. My phone is here all the time and it's very difficult being

1:07:09 > 1:07:14300 miles away when you are in this situation. We travel light of the

1:07:14 > 1:07:19country in this job, so whenever I travel on business with Parliament,

1:07:19 > 1:07:26I have a plan for however get back. I think it's important to tell

1:07:26 > 1:07:31colleagues have given me a huge amount of support, from all sides of

1:07:31 > 1:07:35the house, to say thank you. The website been fantastic and have

1:07:35 > 1:07:41always said, just go and text doesn't tell us you have one. Our

1:07:41 > 1:07:45deputy whip, the Right Honourable member for Tynemouth, has known

1:07:45 > 1:07:51Rebecca since she was a child. I was his agent in 1997 when he got

1:07:51 > 1:07:55elected to this place. Rebecca, being my daughter, ran around the

1:07:55 > 1:08:02committee rooms. It has been really lovely, the support. A lot of the

1:08:02 > 1:08:06time in this place, we see the differences that we have

1:08:06 > 1:08:09highlighted, but actually at the end of the day, we are all people trying

1:08:09 > 1:08:14to do the best for our constituents and we all care about people. For me

1:08:14 > 1:08:18as a mother, my natural instinct has always been to make things better

1:08:18 > 1:08:24for your children. It's what we all do. And to me, she will always be

1:08:24 > 1:08:30the baby I gave birth to its 36 years ago. You love that child

1:08:30 > 1:08:36instantly and unconditionally and that never changes. It's a terrible

1:08:36 > 1:08:40situation not to be able to fix something that has gone terribly

1:08:40 > 1:08:44wrong. But what I can do in the privileged position of being a

1:08:44 > 1:08:49member in this place is raise awareness campaign for a change in

1:08:49 > 1:08:54the law or that deemed consent. I think the change in the law needs to

1:08:54 > 1:08:57come and I want to touch on the investment I think needs to happen

1:08:57 > 1:09:03on the back of the change in the law, which has been alluded to by a

1:09:03 > 1:09:08number of contributions. That is, in schools, this issue needs to be

1:09:08 > 1:09:12talked about. In families, the issue needs to be talked about, so that

1:09:12 > 1:09:17transplantation becomes a normal part of the conversation of life.

1:09:17 > 1:09:21And the investment into the health service to support what I believe

1:09:21 > 1:09:23will be an increase in numbers of donor organs that will become

1:09:23 > 1:09:31available.I thank her for giving way and I wish her and Rebecca all

1:09:31 > 1:09:36the very best for the future. This bill is really important and that's

1:09:36 > 1:09:42why am here to support it. Which she also acknowledge those live donors,

1:09:42 > 1:09:48who give an Oregon? A friend of mine, Jane, has recently given a

1:09:48 > 1:09:53kidney to her nephew in law, an incredible thing to do. Very

1:09:53 > 1:09:57difficult for many of us to imagine it. But has turned around the life

1:09:57 > 1:10:02of her nephew in law, in the way I hope Rebecca's level be turned

1:10:02 > 1:10:09around eventually. Those people who give their organs, although not part

1:10:09 > 1:10:13of this legislation, also deserve the praise of this house. And

1:10:13 > 1:10:17perhaps we also need to raise awareness about that possibility.

1:10:17 > 1:10:22Five members of my family, including myself when forward to be donors,

1:10:22 > 1:10:27but none of us matched, because that is difficult and we have now got one

1:10:27 > 1:10:31member of the family entering a pull situation, where it's likely swap

1:10:31 > 1:10:37shop of organs. Of someone has an Oregon but that is Rebecca and one

1:10:37 > 1:10:42of the members of my family that someone else, then that will work.

1:10:42 > 1:10:45That is a marvellous thing to do and you are absolutely right to draw

1:10:45 > 1:10:48attention to that. I want to see a couple of things about presumed

1:10:48 > 1:10:54consent. It does mean that some people have the right to opt out.

1:10:54 > 1:10:59Some people will opt out of giving organs. I think that is a very

1:10:59 > 1:11:04important thing that needs to be in the legislation. I absolutely

1:11:04 > 1:11:09respect people's decisions to opt out. It is not the right thing for

1:11:09 > 1:11:14everybody to do. And I think that is as important as changing the law as

1:11:14 > 1:11:18it stands now. And my final words today are for the families of

1:11:18 > 1:11:25donors. Your selfless actions, by deleting organs of your loved ones

1:11:25 > 1:11:31at a time of such personal grief, to save the lives of people you don't

1:11:31 > 1:11:36know, is such a wonderful thing to do, that everyone should be grateful

1:11:36 > 1:11:42for. And everybody should thank those people. And that grief of

1:11:42 > 1:11:48losing a loved one carries on for ever, but I am sure that there is

1:11:48 > 1:11:52some comfort in the fact that their family and their loved one's organs

1:11:52 > 1:11:57have gone to help someone else will bring some comfort in that

1:11:57 > 1:12:00situation. But I think it is important to say thank you.

1:12:00 > 1:12:07Hopefully, one day a family member -- as hopefully one day their family

1:12:07 > 1:12:10member of recipients, I want to say thank you from the bottom of my

1:12:10 > 1:12:15heart. You're very special. Let us today passes Bill to the committee

1:12:15 > 1:12:19stage and make the change in the law, to save more lives, of

1:12:19 > 1:12:24thousands waiting for transplants today. I think today is a day when

1:12:24 > 1:12:29Parliament will see at its best, overcoming political differences for

1:12:29 > 1:12:33something that's just needs to change. And it is a day I think we

1:12:33 > 1:12:43should be proud of.Thank you. It is an honour to follow the Honourable

1:12:43 > 1:12:46member for Sunderland 's Central. We have all learned today that Rebecca

1:12:46 > 1:12:53is just as strong and brave as her mother. I would also like to

1:12:53 > 1:12:55congratulate the Honourable member for Coventry North West were

1:12:55 > 1:12:59bringing this bill to the house, for the compassionate and positive tone

1:12:59 > 1:13:02he has taken condemned by the collaborative way he is working

1:13:02 > 1:13:07across the house to make sure we can drive this forward. This is a vital

1:13:07 > 1:13:11piece of legislation and it is genuinely a life and death issue we

1:13:11 > 1:13:16are talking about. It is the tragedy that 456 adults and 14 children lost

1:13:16 > 1:13:23their lives last year while on the organ donation list. Every single

1:13:23 > 1:13:26day, somebody is dying because they're not getting the transplant

1:13:26 > 1:13:31they desperately need. There are currently 6500 people waiting for

1:13:31 > 1:13:45organs, who do not want to become part of those statistics. This

1:13:45 > 1:13:48legislation is for them and is about saving lives. And saving lives it

1:13:48 > 1:13:50does. There are about 50,000 people today alive in the UK who are alive

1:13:50 > 1:13:52because they have received an organ transplant. 25 million people are

1:13:52 > 1:13:57currently on the NHS organ donor list, including myself. This is up

1:13:57 > 1:14:0575% over the last ten years, and transplants themselves up 56%. This

1:14:05 > 1:14:11bill is about removing obstructions to donating, at the same time as

1:14:11 > 1:14:15allowing anyone who does not wish to donate to opt out. I think it's very

1:14:15 > 1:14:20important that we do not attach any stigma to anybody who chooses to opt

1:14:20 > 1:14:28out for a variety of perfectly valid reasons.I am very grateful to him

1:14:28 > 1:14:33by giving way. The right Honourable gentleman that has introduced this

1:14:33 > 1:14:37bill has identified a real issue which he supports. I certainly have

1:14:37 > 1:14:41no intention of blocking his bill today, but does he share some of the

1:14:41 > 1:14:46misgivings that some people have in principle, about the state presuming

1:14:46 > 1:14:51that people have consented to something, when actually they have

1:14:51 > 1:14:54not? And the potential further implications that might have for

1:14:54 > 1:15:00Public policy in the future? Does he have any understanding about those

1:15:00 > 1:15:03misgivings of the state presuming people have done something they have

1:15:03 > 1:15:08not done?

1:15:08 > 1:15:15I think this is a matter of life and death. The numbers of people willing

1:15:15 > 1:15:19to support organ donation in principle yet the relatively low

1:15:19 > 1:15:22figure of those who have gone on to the organ donation list despite it

1:15:22 > 1:15:27only takes two minutes to do so is alarming. In an ideal world the

1:15:27 > 1:15:29ideal situation would be everybody is completely educated and

1:15:29 > 1:15:32voluntarily making their own choice but that is not happening in this

1:15:32 > 1:15:37particular situation so I think many of these issues will be raised in

1:15:37 > 1:15:42the Bill Committee and hopefully can find a reasonable and skill.Is the

1:15:42 > 1:15:46honourable member aware that in the last ten years the number of organ

1:15:46 > 1:15:50donors has increased by 75% and the great dance bands has increased by

1:15:50 > 1:15:5556% so is the really a need for this Bill?Yes because there are still a

1:15:55 > 1:15:58long way to go and people are still dying because they are not getting

1:15:58 > 1:16:01donations and transplant is they need so I think there is an absolute

1:16:01 > 1:16:05need for moving forward with this build. If we look as well as

1:16:05 > 1:16:09alternative systems around the world which other and got the example of

1:16:09 > 1:16:14Spain which has a system that I think we are looking towards as some

1:16:14 > 1:16:19kind of model, perhaps not exactly, where they are a world leading in

1:16:19 > 1:16:2343.4% deceased donors per million. It is joined at the top of that

1:16:23 > 1:16:29league table by other opt out system in countries like Croatia, Portugal,

1:16:29 > 1:16:32France and Italy. All of these countries have better donor rates

1:16:32 > 1:16:37and England and all other opt out rather than opt in system is so the

1:16:37 > 1:16:43other advantage that comes from these opt out systems is they do not

1:16:43 > 1:16:45deny or restrict the role of bereaved families and allow them to

1:16:45 > 1:16:50be consulted on the wishes of their loved ones and I think this is

1:16:50 > 1:16:54another important point. One thing that surprised me with the 43.4 at

1:16:54 > 1:16:57of a million figure was how incredibly low it is. At the million

1:16:57 > 1:17:02people die in the UK every year yet just 1% of those people who died die

1:17:02 > 1:17:06in circumstances or conditions that enable them to even potentially be

1:17:06 > 1:17:10donors. Think that is quite important. Just because you are on

1:17:10 > 1:17:13the donor list doesn't mean you will end up dominating your organs but we

1:17:13 > 1:17:18need to get the figure as high as possible in order to help as many

1:17:18 > 1:17:22people as we can. That also means having the supporting infrastructure

1:17:22 > 1:17:26to enable those who wish to donate to actually done it. We have all

1:17:26 > 1:17:29heard of examples of people being willing to donate their organs but

1:17:29 > 1:17:32for example but about at the web awakened in a hospital where there

1:17:32 > 1:17:36is no capability but those organs to be taken out of their bodies and

1:17:36 > 1:17:40transplanted so I do think we also need to look very carefully at the

1:17:40 > 1:17:45supporting mechanism for any changes brought forward. It has also been

1:17:45 > 1:17:49mentioned by quite a few colleagues that the over all awareness needs to

1:17:49 > 1:17:54be raised and I think there is another important point in terms of

1:17:54 > 1:17:58encouraging family consent, it is very telling that in cases where

1:17:58 > 1:18:02specialist nurses are involved consent rates of 67.6% and in those

1:18:02 > 1:18:08were as Mrs Norris is not involved, the plummeted to 20.5%. There is

1:18:08 > 1:18:13clear statistical evidence that when provided with impartial but expert

1:18:13 > 1:18:18information about the possibility of donated, people are more likely to

1:18:18 > 1:18:22consent to the meeting. One of the Proms we have is there is still an

1:18:22 > 1:18:28awkwardness or queasiness about the idea of your body being examined and

1:18:28 > 1:18:34operated on post death. While we are often very comfortable about that

1:18:34 > 1:18:37ourselves and our families in these horrible circumstances where we had

1:18:37 > 1:18:42passed away particularly under tragic circumstances or with no

1:18:42 > 1:18:46notice are particularly queasy about the idea. Therefore it is vitally

1:18:46 > 1:18:51important that we continue and have these dialogues, that we all have

1:18:51 > 1:18:54these conversations with our family and children because children can

1:18:54 > 1:18:59also be donors themselves. And make sure we have informed conversations.

1:18:59 > 1:19:03It is simply not right that we are currently in a situation where 80%

1:19:03 > 1:19:07of people they would be willing to donate their organs but only 36%

1:19:07 > 1:19:10actually register to do so. The number is increasing and we needed

1:19:10 > 1:19:16to be much higher. In a world publicised opt out system these

1:19:16 > 1:19:19figures could converge and the 20% who are unwilling to donate would

1:19:19 > 1:19:26have a simple mechanism for making sure that they... Many years ago I

1:19:26 > 1:19:30was asked if I had a private members' Bill, I think it was during

1:19:30 > 1:19:33the selection process, what would the Bill be? It would be exactly

1:19:33 > 1:19:37this one. Hopefully the honourable member will be in no doubt that the

1:19:37 > 1:19:44boy support this Bill and took many not all our colleagues this was.

1:19:44 > 1:19:49Thank you, Madam Speaker, for calling me in this very important

1:19:49 > 1:19:55debate. I would like to congratulate my honourable friend from Coventry

1:19:55 > 1:20:10North West. Raising the awareness. I would also like to thank and

1:20:10 > 1:20:15congratulate my colleague and friend, the MP from Sunderland

1:20:15 > 1:20:21Central, for a very emotional, personal and courageous contribution

1:20:21 > 1:20:28to the debate. I am quite confident that the public will take note of

1:20:28 > 1:20:37that. Others have spoken at length about the importance of raising

1:20:37 > 1:20:43donations and there rates. I have my own personal reasons for supporting

1:20:43 > 1:20:51it. My own younger brother waiting for over five years for somebody,

1:20:51 > 1:20:59somewhere to donate a kidney to him. And he is doing dialysis four times

1:20:59 > 1:21:08a week. Another very close personal friend also went through the same

1:21:08 > 1:21:14difficult times so I have that recent other than my personal and

1:21:14 > 1:21:20also a moral commitment to the cause. As everybody and many of you

1:21:20 > 1:21:27colleagues have said, more than 6000 people still sit actively waiting

1:21:27 > 1:21:34for a transplant in the UK. Three people die every day because they

1:21:34 > 1:21:44cannot get the transplant they need. Over the last ten years the number

1:21:44 > 1:21:53of donors has increased by 75% and that is fantastic and has saved

1:21:53 > 1:22:05countless lives. But there is still a great shortage both in the UK and

1:22:05 > 1:22:11as a global community, internationally as well. You go to

1:22:11 > 1:22:18any country, you will be asked what are you doing? I am glad that

1:22:18 > 1:22:24Britain once again is leading in this field so that the rest of the

1:22:24 > 1:22:31world can learn and pick up the ideas from here. Only a third of

1:22:31 > 1:22:37eventual donors are registered to donate at the time of their death.

1:22:37 > 1:22:46This number is even lower amongst the BME communities. BME patients

1:22:46 > 1:22:53they are far worse that other patients, they will on average wait

1:22:53 > 1:23:01six months longer for a transplant than white patients. I do apologise,

1:23:01 > 1:23:08that is maybe a language not politically correct but I think that

1:23:08 > 1:23:14the convenience I am using, black and white in this case. BME people

1:23:14 > 1:23:20face the struggle of comparatively rare blood and tissue types and

1:23:20 > 1:23:24compatible organs. And while the overall number of donors has

1:23:24 > 1:23:31increased by 75% BME donors donations have only increased by

1:23:31 > 1:23:35less than 7%. That is only a fraction of the rate for white

1:23:35 > 1:23:44people and this has translated directly into the deaths. There is

1:23:44 > 1:23:48still a problem with public education and awareness. The

1:23:48 > 1:23:54families of minority populations are also less likely to consent to organ

1:23:54 > 1:24:05donation when asked after death. 64% of BME families are refusing

1:24:05 > 1:24:09permission for donation compared to only 43% for the rest of the

1:24:09 > 1:24:15population. And opt out system rather than an opt in system will

1:24:15 > 1:24:23increase the likelihood donors of the same blood and tissue types

1:24:23 > 1:24:27related to members of the BME community. Increasing the number of

1:24:27 > 1:24:30compatible organs on the transplant list would save thousands of lives

1:24:30 > 1:24:37each year.I thank the honourable gentleman forgiving way. He is

1:24:37 > 1:24:44actually making some extremely important points in the speech and I

1:24:44 > 1:24:47am particular cancers of and really want to tackle it but just to give

1:24:47 > 1:24:50some more amplification to the point he is making, of the six and a half

1:24:50 > 1:24:56thousand people on the waiting list over 1000 of them are from Asian

1:24:56 > 1:25:01backgrounds and 800 of them are black. I would just like to endorse

1:25:01 > 1:25:07his point that in terms of actually being more racial Ben is we need to

1:25:07 > 1:25:12increase donation from those parts of the community.I am thankful for

1:25:12 > 1:25:16your very positive intervention and information given to the rest of the

1:25:16 > 1:25:23members here. Activist groups and campaigners such as the National BME

1:25:23 > 1:25:28transplant Alliance support the move to end opt out system because it

1:25:28 > 1:25:35will ultimately save more lives across our diverse country.I think

1:25:35 > 1:25:40my honourable friend forgiving way and support everything he says. Like

1:25:40 > 1:25:46himself I represent consistency with a higher proportion of BME

1:25:46 > 1:25:53communities and there are a low levels of people committing to

1:25:53 > 1:25:58donate organs but also higher rates of heart disease amongst these

1:25:58 > 1:26:01communities as well, subject to a fire it is very important we get

1:26:01 > 1:26:10many people from the BME on the list in future.I was going to raise that

1:26:10 > 1:26:17and I am thankful for you to highlight it and support it. Issues

1:26:17 > 1:26:23such as diabetes, high blood pressure and hepatitis are more

1:26:23 > 1:26:27common in BME communities, making them more likely to need transplant

1:26:27 > 1:26:36organs. BME patients make up a third of the kidney transplant waiting

1:26:36 > 1:26:39list and wait an average of a year longer for a transplant than their

1:26:39 > 1:26:48white counterparts. Just one person can save or improve up to nine

1:26:48 > 1:26:57lives. It can give life to so many through organ donation and even more

1:26:57 > 1:27:05if they donate tissue as well. While in the UK, ethnic minorities

1:27:05 > 1:27:10constitute only 11% of the population, they make up nearly a

1:27:10 > 1:27:16quarter of transplant waiting list. And only six out of every 100 people

1:27:16 > 1:27:26signed up to that NHS organ donor register or from BME communities.

1:27:26 > 1:27:33Opt out can and will save lives. It respects religious differences and

1:27:33 > 1:27:41takes away no freedom of expression or belief. I know that countless

1:27:41 > 1:27:48constituents of mine have written in to urge me to coming here on Friday

1:27:48 > 1:27:56to support this Bill. And I am proud to do so and to lend my support to

1:27:56 > 1:28:01the honourable member for Coventry North West. Thank you.Peter

1:28:01 > 1:28:09Heaton-Jones.Thank you. I am delighted to be here to support this

1:28:09 > 1:28:14Bill today. In doing so I am not going to rehearse many of the

1:28:14 > 1:28:19arguments which have been so ably put already. Not least by the

1:28:19 > 1:28:23honourable member for Coventry North West whose speech I think on its own

1:28:23 > 1:28:26was enough to persuade a club members of this has to support this

1:28:26 > 1:28:32excellent measure today. What I am here to do today is to tell one

1:28:32 > 1:28:37story and it is a story which was raised initially by the member for

1:28:37 > 1:28:44Coventry North West. It is the story of my constituent and her family,

1:28:44 > 1:28:53young hero wall. It was on Sunday morning, the 30th of July last year

1:28:53 > 1:28:59that there was a road traffic collision on the 8361 North Devon

1:28:59 > 1:29:04Link Road. It took place only about five miles from my own home in North

1:29:04 > 1:29:07Devon on what they have to say is a stretch of road notorious for

1:29:07 > 1:29:13accidents in which we are working on hard to improve. . In the course of

1:29:13 > 1:29:16the accident to vehicles were involved, one of them was a car

1:29:16 > 1:29:29carrying members of the ball family. Akira, her young brother and their

1:29:29 > 1:29:32mother. Their vehicle was in collision with another. They blamed

1:29:32 > 1:29:38workaday paramedics, emergency service and all the stuff in the

1:29:38 > 1:29:43NHS, three separate hospitals that those people were taken to. The

1:29:43 > 1:29:50brilliant work was undertaken. Sadly two days later on the Tuesday

1:29:50 > 1:29:54afternoon young Ciara Ball passed away, she was nine years old. Her

1:29:54 > 1:29:59mother was very seriously injured, as indeed was her brother Brad.

1:29:59 > 1:30:05Immediately after her death, her father Joe took the agonising

1:30:05 > 1:30:09decision but the right decision that he wanted his daughter 's death to

1:30:09 > 1:30:17give life to other people and so he took the decision that young carer's

1:30:17 > 1:30:27organs should be donated. I have had contact this week, they live in

1:30:27 > 1:30:30Barnstable in my constituency and I have sought permission to make sure

1:30:30 > 1:30:35that they are happy for me to tell Ciara's. Read today which indeed

1:30:35 > 1:30:40they are because they recognise as I do that this could be an inspiration

1:30:40 > 1:30:47to others to ensure that they too sign up for organ donation and will

1:30:47 > 1:30:50give them strength if they have to face similar circumstances.

1:30:50 > 1:31:00Following that decision by Ciara's father, four people are alive today

1:31:00 > 1:31:07who otherwise would not be. Ciara donated her kidneys, heart, Labour

1:31:07 > 1:31:18and her pancreas. -- Labour. One was given to a man in his 30s who had

1:31:18 > 1:31:22been on the waiting list for an audience for two and a half years.

1:31:22 > 1:31:25The other kidney was given to a woman in her 50s who had been on the

1:31:25 > 1:31:33waiting list for nine and a half years. A young boy received carer's

1:31:33 > 1:31:42pancreas. Ciara's heart was given to a ten-year-old boy, who has become

1:31:42 > 1:31:46very much the figurehead of this campaign and who has been referred

1:31:46 > 1:31:52to already in the course of this debate because Ciara's heart was

1:31:52 > 1:31:58given to Max Johnson. It is Max who is in many ways at the forefront of

1:31:58 > 1:32:03this excellent campaign. Max is alive today and it was so good to

1:32:03 > 1:32:06hear from the honourable gentleman and those who were at the reception

1:32:06 > 1:32:17last night that Max's mum Emma is here to hear this debate and to know

1:32:17 > 1:32:20that Ciara's family are so pleased to have given life to your little

1:32:20 > 1:32:29boy.

1:32:29 > 1:32:34That is Ciara's story and it is Max's story and it is the story of

1:32:34 > 1:32:38how a very brave decision and I'm surely very difficult decision, to

1:32:38 > 1:32:44allow Ciara's organs to be deleted, have given life to four other people

1:32:44 > 1:32:51who otherwise would probably not be year today. That must be the best

1:32:51 > 1:32:56possible argument for supporting this bill, because this bill will

1:32:56 > 1:33:03ensure that there are more organs available for donation. And Ciara's

1:33:03 > 1:33:09story and Max's story demonstrate that more organs mean more saved

1:33:09 > 1:33:14lives. So I welcome and I fully support this bill and many people

1:33:14 > 1:33:18deserve credit for getting it to this stage. Of course, the

1:33:18 > 1:33:23Honourable member for Coventry North West, who's built wheat debate

1:33:23 > 1:33:26today, two other Honourable members who have been mentioned here today

1:33:26 > 1:33:31who have pioneered similar legislation that has not yet got to

1:33:31 > 1:33:35this stage, for various parliamentary reasons. To the

1:33:35 > 1:33:39government, who have said they are supporting this bill and to the

1:33:39 > 1:33:43Minister for personally driving it forward, to her Majesty's

1:33:43 > 1:33:48opposition, and I was delighted to hear from the dispatch box, their

1:33:48 > 1:33:51spokesman ensuring the smooth passage of the spill. And the fact

1:33:51 > 1:33:56that on the face of this bill are members from all seven parties

1:33:56 > 1:34:03represented in this house, I think it's a truly significant. I do also

1:34:03 > 1:34:08pay tribute to the Daily Mirror, Whose Campaign Featuring Max, Who

1:34:08 > 1:34:16Has Life Because Of The Campaign That Is helped to push this forward.

1:34:16 > 1:34:20Many people deserve quite likely to have a stake in what I sincerely

1:34:20 > 1:34:27hope will be the success of this Bill. But as I support this Bill, as

1:34:27 > 1:34:34I will do throughout all its stages, in my mind, I will be thinking of

1:34:34 > 1:34:39Max and of Ciara. It is their Bill and it is thanks to the brave

1:34:39 > 1:34:44decision taken by Ciara's dad on that most difficult of days, back

1:34:44 > 1:34:49for more people have life, who otherwise might not, and that Timmy

1:34:49 > 1:34:58is the best argument for it seeing this Bill the statute books.Thank

1:34:58 > 1:35:02you very much. It is a pleasure to follow the Honourable member for

1:35:02 > 1:35:06North Devon, who spoke most movingly about the incredible contribution

1:35:06 > 1:35:13that his constituents Ciara Ball and her family have made to this

1:35:13 > 1:35:17process. I pay tribute to the overall he has played in bringing

1:35:17 > 1:35:21that to our attention today. He is also right to talk about the

1:35:21 > 1:35:26cross-party nature of this campaign. I think this is Parliament at its

1:35:26 > 1:35:32best, I think this is how the public expects us to serve in this place,

1:35:32 > 1:35:37to work cooperatively with others, to make really important changes. It

1:35:37 > 1:35:42seems to me that the house is faced today with a very clear choice. We

1:35:42 > 1:35:48have the opportunity to make a change, which I believe will add

1:35:48 > 1:35:51huge value to our country and undoubtedly will save people's

1:35:51 > 1:35:59lives. What it all boils down to in the end is whether we are going to

1:35:59 > 1:36:04take that opportunity to save lives. Hundreds of lives over the coming

1:36:04 > 1:36:10years. I very much hope that we do not miss that opportunity, and that

1:36:10 > 1:36:16we work together to make this change. It has been a real privilege

1:36:16 > 1:36:22to be a part of the campaign that has got us to this point today. And

1:36:22 > 1:36:27in particular, I do want to pay tribute to my honourable friend, the

1:36:27 > 1:36:32member for Coventry North West. He has provided real leadership through

1:36:32 > 1:36:37his sponsorship of the Bill. He and I have sat through many meetings. I

1:36:37 > 1:36:42have lost count of how many we have sat through, but it has been his

1:36:42 > 1:36:48focus and his determination to lead us to this point that has meant that

1:36:48 > 1:36:53this morning, we have an opportunity to do something very worthwhile. I

1:36:53 > 1:36:57would like to take this opportunity publicly to pay tribute to him, but

1:36:57 > 1:37:01also to all those other members who provided such outstanding support.

1:37:01 > 1:37:06I'm thinking of the Honourable member for Newport West, my good

1:37:06 > 1:37:10friend the member for Sunderland Central and to members too numerous

1:37:10 > 1:37:15to mention, but right across the house and right across the political

1:37:15 > 1:37:20spectrum, who have worked together to get us to this place. It has been

1:37:20 > 1:37:28mentioned before in this debate, but I also want to pay tribute to

1:37:28 > 1:37:32Trinity Mirror. The Mirror group have run a relentless and tireless

1:37:32 > 1:37:38campaign and their contribution to this private member's bill and the

1:37:38 > 1:37:43broader campaign has been massive. They have conducted themselves in

1:37:43 > 1:37:47the very best traditions of the free British press, and I know that I

1:37:47 > 1:37:53speak for all members when I pay them the largest compliment that I

1:37:53 > 1:37:58could, and we're very grateful for everything that they have done. I

1:37:58 > 1:38:02also think it is crucially important today to pay tribute and credit

1:38:02 > 1:38:12where it is due and I am very firmly at the Minister, who has responded

1:38:12 > 1:38:15in the most brilliantly sensible, cooperative and constructive way. We

1:38:15 > 1:38:20have sat in a lot of meetings in different places although many, many

1:38:20 > 1:38:25months. And in my relatively short space of time in this house, I have

1:38:25 > 1:38:30to say I have not found anyone who has been easier to deal with than

1:38:30 > 1:38:35her. It has been a great pleasure, and the leadership she has shown has

1:38:35 > 1:38:39been absolutely instrumental in making sure that today, we have that

1:38:39 > 1:38:46opportunity to pass this important Bill. I pass my thanks to her and to

1:38:46 > 1:38:50her officials, who have also done a very important job in getting us to

1:38:50 > 1:38:56this place. Today, I urge all Honourable members to think of the

1:38:56 > 1:39:00common good and to act in a way that I firmly and passionately believe

1:39:00 > 1:39:06will save countless lives. I think it is worth reflecting just for a

1:39:06 > 1:39:13moment that, of all the people who died in the UK last year, only

1:39:13 > 1:39:16around 1% died in circumstances that would make donation possible. This

1:39:16 > 1:39:22means that, even though there are hundreds of thousands of people

1:39:22 > 1:39:26across the country who are registered as potential donors, only

1:39:26 > 1:39:30a small handful will ever be in a situation that will allow donation

1:39:30 > 1:39:35to take place. And this is one of the main reasons that today, in the

1:39:35 > 1:39:41UK, that there are over 6000 people waiting for an organ donation, and

1:39:41 > 1:39:48why nearly 500 people died last year while waiting for the deletion. This

1:39:48 > 1:39:57loss of life is devastating, but it is not inevitable, and today, I have

1:39:57 > 1:40:01-- we have a precious opportunity to do something about it and we must

1:40:01 > 1:40:06not miss that opportunity. Moving to an opt out system of organ donation

1:40:06 > 1:40:11will add thousands of names to the donor register, meaning that once

1:40:11 > 1:40:17this Bill is passed, hundreds of lives would be saved. Let's be very

1:40:17 > 1:40:21clear about what this is not. This is not about the state taking

1:40:21 > 1:40:27control of people's organs and it is not about shaming individuals to

1:40:27 > 1:40:36donate. If people do want to opt out, that is absolutely fine and I

1:40:36 > 1:40:38am hugely respectful of any individual decision that people want

1:40:38 > 1:40:43to make. No questions will be asked and there will be no hard feelings.

1:40:43 > 1:40:48But what this is about is the case of making it easier for those who

1:40:48 > 1:40:56might wish to donate to do so. Will he give way? I'd be delighted.A

1:40:56 > 1:40:59mention has been made of religiously inclined Jewish people in this

1:40:59 > 1:41:04country and there are some people who will feel uncomfortable about

1:41:04 > 1:41:08the concept of donation. Does he agree with me that there will be

1:41:08 > 1:41:11people from various religious traditions who may feel

1:41:11 > 1:41:15uncomfortable about this, and it is entirely right that we should give

1:41:15 > 1:41:21them the opportunity, if they wish to do so, to opt out from this?I

1:41:21 > 1:41:25wholeheartedly agree. He makes an important point. This is absolutely

1:41:25 > 1:41:31not about shaming anybody to do anything they don't want to. If

1:41:31 > 1:41:36anybody decides they do not wish to be part of the scheme, they have the

1:41:36 > 1:41:40right to opt out. That is incredibly important to be very clear about

1:41:40 > 1:41:45that. I also think it's worth reflecting on the point made earlier

1:41:45 > 1:41:51on by the member for Leeds Central. That the current system does require

1:41:51 > 1:41:55people to take the time to discuss this most serious and difficult

1:41:55 > 1:42:00matter with their loved ones, to reach a judgment about whether, in

1:42:00 > 1:42:05the event of some tragedy or cuddling, that they would want their

1:42:05 > 1:42:09organs to be donated. The truth of the matter is, I think it's

1:42:09 > 1:42:12incredibly important, where people feel they can have that kind of

1:42:12 > 1:42:18conversation with their loved ones, that they do so, but all of us will

1:42:18 > 1:42:23understand that people lead busy lives, and many of us will be guilty

1:42:23 > 1:42:27of not having these conversations and putting these particular tasks

1:42:27 > 1:42:32on hold. But I believe that this is an issue we can no longer afford to

1:42:32 > 1:42:37ignore. And for thousands of people right around our country, this is

1:42:37 > 1:42:42literally a matter of life and death. And that is why we must

1:42:42 > 1:42:46increase the number of people on our donor register. And they must make

1:42:46 > 1:42:52sure that we are saving as many lives as we possibly can. And ensure

1:42:52 > 1:42:57that no more people died waiting for a transplant, simply because a

1:42:57 > 1:43:03potential donor was not able to sign up.I thank him for giving way and

1:43:03 > 1:43:08for making such a powerful speech. I think we often think of donors as

1:43:08 > 1:43:12being younger people whose bodies and organs are in particularly good

1:43:12 > 1:43:16shape, but my beloved grandfather died a few years ago at 96 and he

1:43:16 > 1:43:21was able to give part of his eyes in order to give the gift of sight to

1:43:21 > 1:43:24other people. We received a letter from the hospital advising how many

1:43:24 > 1:43:28people he'd been able to help. There's always that opportunity, no

1:43:28 > 1:43:34matter how old you are, that you can still offer that amazing gift to

1:43:34 > 1:43:39another after you have gone.She makes an incredibly important point.

1:43:39 > 1:43:43As other members have said, the legislation we are seeking to pass

1:43:43 > 1:43:47today is only a part of the way in which we can seek to increase the

1:43:47 > 1:43:52number of people, what ever their age or background, who are willing

1:43:52 > 1:43:58and able to make a contribution of their organs. And what we also need

1:43:58 > 1:44:02to do in concert with the piece of legislation, is have an open

1:44:02 > 1:44:06discussion in our communities about the importance of why people

1:44:06 > 1:44:09proactively should want to make a contribution in this way. I will

1:44:09 > 1:44:15give way to my honourable friend.My honourable friend made a very

1:44:15 > 1:44:19important point about age. I have come along here is someone of a

1:44:19 > 1:44:24certain age, with my organ donor card, which I have carried all my

1:44:24 > 1:44:30adult life. But there is the thought that all the people's bodies might

1:44:30 > 1:44:35not be in such good condition, but bodies can be used for medical

1:44:35 > 1:44:40research, perhaps medical research into ageing. I like to think people

1:44:40 > 1:44:44of my age could still donate their bodies, even if they died from

1:44:44 > 1:44:47natural causes. And I am certainly going to make sure that is included

1:44:47 > 1:44:53in my will, so that in future, my body could be used in medical

1:44:53 > 1:44:58research, perhaps teaching medical students.He does make a very

1:44:58 > 1:45:03important point and it reinforces the notion that, in addition to any

1:45:03 > 1:45:08legislation we pass in this house, all of us who believe in the value

1:45:08 > 1:45:13of ensuring that as many people are registered to donate their organs as

1:45:13 > 1:45:17possible, that is something that the legislation obviously has an

1:45:17 > 1:45:21important role to play, but all of us as leaders in our communities

1:45:21 > 1:45:27have an absolute responsibility to get that message across to our

1:45:27 > 1:45:31constituents. I do not intend to detain the house for much longer,

1:45:31 > 1:45:36but I do want to make the point that I feel we are lucky and privileged

1:45:36 > 1:45:44today to be joined by Emma Johnston. Emma is often referred to as Max's

1:45:44 > 1:45:48Mum, I don't think she reminds being referred to in that way, as the

1:45:48 > 1:45:53member for North Devon mentioned a moment ago. Max was a ten-year-old

1:45:53 > 1:45:57who fronted the daily Mirror campaign on organ donation. He was

1:45:57 > 1:46:01someone who was kept alive be a tiny metal pump in his chest for seven

1:46:01 > 1:46:06months. After finally receiving a heart transplant last August, I am

1:46:06 > 1:46:15delighted to learn that Max is doing well, and I think it is Max's story

1:46:15 > 1:46:20and that of the sacrifice made by Ciara Ball, so movingly spoken of by

1:46:20 > 1:46:25the Honourable member for North Devon, that should serve as an

1:46:25 > 1:46:32inspiration to all of us. And that is why we are here today, to save

1:46:32 > 1:46:35lives like Max's and all those other thousands of people who would

1:46:35 > 1:46:40benefit from the change that we have, that precious opportunity we

1:46:40 > 1:46:43have to make that change today. I would say to the housing conclusion

1:46:43 > 1:46:48that we have at our fingertips the opportunity to make a really

1:46:48 > 1:46:53powerful, important and meaningful change. Before I sit down, I give

1:46:53 > 1:47:00way to my honourable friend.

1:47:00 > 1:47:05It is not entirely the same but my son Max is alive today because he

1:47:05 > 1:47:09received a stem cell transplant and would he agree with me that we need

1:47:09 > 1:47:12to do more to encourage people to get onto the stem cell register.

1:47:12 > 1:47:19Also in the same way about the transplants we are talking about

1:47:19 > 1:47:22today, it is to also get rid of those myths that actually giving

1:47:22 > 1:47:28stem cells is painful, but none of that is true, it is a very simple

1:47:28 > 1:47:34process and so many more lives could be saved.I agree with Right

1:47:34 > 1:47:39Honourable friend. None of these things I don't think should be

1:47:39 > 1:47:41particularly contentious. I don't understand that the points of debate

1:47:41 > 1:47:45and I understand there are honourable members and is housed and

1:47:45 > 1:47:53the blood in the country who have legitimate issues with these

1:47:53 > 1:47:57sensitive matters but I'm encouraged that the level of support we have

1:47:57 > 1:48:01here today. I am heartened that we have the support both the Prime

1:48:01 > 1:48:05Minister and the Leader of the Opposition will stop and think it is

1:48:05 > 1:48:08incredibly encouraging that we have a minister who is very supportive

1:48:08 > 1:48:10and an opposition frontbencher who have given a clear commitment to

1:48:10 > 1:48:14support this as well. I think there is overwhelming support for this

1:48:14 > 1:48:18measure here in the House today. I think so far we have seen Parliament

1:48:18 > 1:48:23at its very best and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we can keep

1:48:23 > 1:48:28that concerns is going for the next couple of hours. Thank you. --

1:48:28 > 1:48:39consensus going.I support this Bill today, although I am not entirely

1:48:39 > 1:48:45comfortable with the principle of the state taking control of bodies

1:48:45 > 1:48:49without express permission. I think that option is far less bad than the

1:48:49 > 1:48:55hundreds of lives that unnecessarily lost every year effectively through

1:48:55 > 1:48:57inertia when we know that action could be taken that most people

1:48:57 > 1:49:04would agree with as the Right Honourable Gentleman has referred to

1:49:04 > 1:49:07come at the massive gap between those who agree with donation who

1:49:07 > 1:49:13are willing to be donors yet a part smaller number actually register as

1:49:13 > 1:49:19donors. But there are a number of points being raised with me by

1:49:19 > 1:49:21constituents that they hope the Right Honourable Gentleman and the

1:49:21 > 1:49:25Minister will consider during the passage of this Bill to strengthen

1:49:25 > 1:49:31it further. First is strengthening, safeguards, as reassured by the

1:49:31 > 1:49:33Right Honourable Gentleman's comments in this area. Strengthening

1:49:33 > 1:49:39the safeguards to make sure that hospitals are absolutely sure

1:49:39 > 1:49:42whether people are on the register or not, but it is not a question of

1:49:42 > 1:49:49if systems are down that hospitals take the chance and operate anyway,

1:49:49 > 1:49:52if people have actively opted out and needs to be belt and braces to

1:49:52 > 1:49:57make sure those choices are respected. Secondly to strengthen

1:49:57 > 1:50:01the existing law elsewhere to make sure that under no circumstances can

1:50:01 > 1:50:08organs be harvested, sold, if it was clearly outside the scope and

1:50:08 > 1:50:13intention of this Bill. I think this is clearly a very worthwhile

1:50:13 > 1:50:17important Bill is make constituent Sandra e-mailed me this morning.

1:50:17 > 1:50:20This important change in the legislation prevents the needless

1:50:20 > 1:50:25waste of usable and healthy organs being sent for cremation when they

1:50:25 > 1:50:37could instead change many thousands of lives.

1:50:40 > 1:50:43May I first ball paid tribute to the Right Honourable Member for North

1:50:43 > 1:50:52West for securing this Bill coming forward today? Personally I think

1:50:52 > 1:50:56this speaks to our humanity and to be in this chamber today to support

1:50:56 > 1:51:01it is a great honour to me. Three people die daily in the UK because

1:51:01 > 1:51:07of a lack of available organs to transplant. The Bill before us today

1:51:07 > 1:51:11with increased the chance of an unwell patient and a life-saving

1:51:11 > 1:51:14organ being united. I would like to pay Chip Reid to the member for

1:51:14 > 1:51:22Sunderland Central, who described a similar situation to a member of my

1:51:22 > 1:51:26family who were successful in the end getting her transplant. She was

1:51:26 > 1:51:33the mother of a newly born child and we didn't know what was wrong and

1:51:33 > 1:51:37she had no energy and couldn't pick children up from school, wasn't

1:51:37 > 1:51:42eating, often going to the hospital and then gradually when taken to the

1:51:42 > 1:51:47hospital by her husband, whisked off to Birmingham. Unfortunately she got

1:51:47 > 1:51:53a kidney transplant while she was there. But was not successful. We

1:51:53 > 1:51:58were told it was highly unlikely another kidney would be suitable in

1:51:58 > 1:52:04the time that it was needed. Thankfully we got that kidney and

1:52:04 > 1:52:11she lived. Her three children, the trauma that the family went through

1:52:11 > 1:52:17during that time was just unbelievable. But it is true those

1:52:17 > 1:52:21three children and the immediate family, the care they had to give

1:52:21 > 1:52:26when she was in Birmingham, husband was there, cousin, the major the

1:52:26 > 1:52:31family did what they could. We have been the recipients of the saving of

1:52:31 > 1:52:39a dear family. This Bill retains the autonomy of individuals to choose

1:52:39 > 1:52:45what happens to their own bodies. The opt out organ donation carries

1:52:45 > 1:52:51with it the weight of 80% of public support, support of the British

1:52:51 > 1:52:55Medical Association and cross-party political support. All seven parties

1:52:55 > 1:53:02represented on the signatures. It also carries the support of past and

1:53:02 > 1:53:07present prime ministers. I would like to talk about something,

1:53:07 > 1:53:12another case in the town that I represent. Last year tragically we

1:53:12 > 1:53:20lost a little girl aged four Violet Greys who was killed by a fatal

1:53:20 > 1:53:25accident, a criminal act, 80 mph car in a 30 mile per hour zone on her

1:53:25 > 1:53:31way home with grandma from the nursery. , the parents of little

1:53:31 > 1:53:37Violet took the brave decision to donate organs to their four-year-old

1:53:37 > 1:53:41daughter and we know today that two lives were saved. The family tell me

1:53:41 > 1:53:48and all the town that they get some great comfort from that and as her

1:53:48 > 1:53:51little brother asked about how they tried to explain this to him so he

1:53:51 > 1:54:03would grow up with this. The parents of Violet Grace have been joined by

1:54:03 > 1:54:10Steve Prescott, a former champion rugby league player who eventually

1:54:10 > 1:54:13had an organ transplant which was successful. Unfortunately there were

1:54:13 > 1:54:19some other later complications.Does she agree that although it can be

1:54:19 > 1:54:24sometimes a difficult conversation where possible this Bill may also

1:54:24 > 1:54:27bring a valid opportunity to families and friends and loved ones

1:54:27 > 1:54:30to actually talk about what they want to happen after their death

1:54:30 > 1:54:35including things like funeral arrangements? I knew from a very

1:54:35 > 1:54:39young age that when I went I wanted to donate my audience and still have

1:54:39 > 1:54:44my original organ donation card which is over 30 years old now. For

1:54:44 > 1:54:48the disc will get media attention which we encourage people to have

1:54:48 > 1:54:54that conversation with those they love.I do agree. Just to talk on

1:54:54 > 1:55:00that and bring that point out, Steve Prescott's window setup along with

1:55:00 > 1:55:07colleagues and friends and members of the community, set up the steep

1:55:07 > 1:55:11Prescott foundation and his widow approached the parents of Violet

1:55:11 > 1:55:15Grace and to give comfort and support and they have said off a

1:55:15 > 1:55:21huge campaign within our town which is very successful urging us all to

1:55:21 > 1:55:29donate over organs. Steve died unfortunately but the multiple organ

1:55:29 > 1:55:32transplant was a success. I paid tribute to those families and the

1:55:32 > 1:55:39brazenness of the parents of little Violet Grace. This Bill would save

1:55:39 > 1:55:44the trauma of that decision under such an emotional time when your

1:55:44 > 1:55:54little girl is there dying. It would save a lot of trauma. I think this

1:55:54 > 1:55:58is the moment to act. A move to opting out would save it predicted

1:55:58 > 1:56:04500 lives a year and done properly with the right publicity and

1:56:04 > 1:56:10engagement and involvement of communities, I think it should have

1:56:10 > 1:56:14all our support and the support in here today is really gratifying. I

1:56:14 > 1:56:21pay tribute to The Daily Mirror which is run a fantastic campaign

1:56:21 > 1:56:28and has really urged and got people to actually sign up now, so I paid

1:56:28 > 1:56:38should be to them. I understand the Government as intends to go out to

1:56:38 > 1:56:40public consultation on how the opt out donation would be implemented

1:56:40 > 1:56:49sensitively. I also believe the proposing the Bill to involve a

1:56:49 > 1:56:57person's family in decision against a safeguard against any unregistered

1:56:57 > 1:57:04donation and it is reassuring to families who do have concerns. And

1:57:04 > 1:57:08you only only 5000 people in the UK die in circumstances where they can

1:57:08 > 1:57:14successfully donate. 6500 people currently waiting for a life-saving

1:57:14 > 1:57:20donations. Madam Deputy Speaker, none of us ever expect or perhaps

1:57:20 > 1:57:25even thinks about the possibility that we or someone we love may need

1:57:25 > 1:57:29an organ from someone else to survive. We have pointed out today

1:57:29 > 1:57:34many other people pointed out as suddenly it is there, it is your

1:57:34 > 1:57:39family. But there is a gulf between the supply of organs and urgent need

1:57:39 > 1:57:43for them and it is time to make a conscious decision to take

1:57:43 > 1:57:50affirmative action. I think the time is right. 80% of public supports

1:57:50 > 1:57:54organ donation but only 36% are on the register. It needs to be

1:57:54 > 1:58:05addressed. 60 organs have been transplanted in the first six months

1:58:05 > 1:58:12since Wales adopted the opt out. And from those people consent had been

1:58:12 > 1:58:22received from 50% of those people. 31 people organs have been used for

1:58:22 > 1:58:2860 organ saved donated. That is the fact from the latest data from

1:58:28 > 1:58:32Wales. Opting out has therefore been proven to work even in its infancy

1:58:32 > 1:58:41so I urge the House to back consent as a popular policy. To conclude,

1:58:41 > 1:58:44the British Medical Association makes a point which goes to the

1:58:44 > 1:58:51heart of this debate. As a result of this Bill the choice of the

1:58:51 > 1:58:55individual about what should happen with their own body will remain the

1:58:55 > 1:59:01same, to donate or not to donate. But a change in the law means a

1:59:01 > 1:59:06switch of the default position towards donation and saving many

1:59:06 > 1:59:16more lives. I urge the House to support.

1:59:16 > 1:59:19I would like to begin by congratulating the honourable member

1:59:19 > 1:59:24for getting this bill here to day and also to echo the sentiment that

1:59:24 > 1:59:28has been expressed across the House today in support of the bill. When

1:59:28 > 1:59:32three people die every day because of lack of organs, where we have a

1:59:32 > 1:59:35situation where eight out of ten people say they would be willing to

1:59:35 > 1:59:38be an organ donor but are not formally on the register, I think it

1:59:38 > 1:59:44is time we take action and I can only begin to imagine the emotional

1:59:44 > 1:59:52roller-coaster that families and people waiting for organs must go

1:59:52 > 1:59:55through in that long and try weight that can take many years. I

1:59:55 > 1:59:57appreciate the personal stories that members have shared with the House

1:59:57 > 2:00:00today which must be quite distressing and I think we have all

2:00:00 > 2:00:04earned greater insight into it from a personal level. I do not really

2:00:04 > 2:00:07want to react to rate their merits of this bill because we all seem to

2:00:07 > 2:00:12be very much in favour of it but what I do want to do is talk briefly

2:00:12 > 2:00:17on how we can actually make sure that this bill is as successful as

2:00:17 > 2:00:29it possibly can be. I do think, as I alluded to in my intervention

2:00:29 > 2:00:32earlier, that this is only part of the solution and not the complete

2:00:32 > 2:00:35answer. It is an essential building block and it is important that we

2:00:35 > 2:00:38build the House. One of the key areas I think it's false story

2:00:38 > 2:00:44culture and making sure that we are educating from a very young age so

2:00:44 > 2:00:47that people see organ donation as a positive thing and something they

2:00:47 > 2:00:54want to do and that will counter the arguments about potential people

2:00:54 > 2:00:58seeing it as a state ownership of your organs or the state seizing

2:00:58 > 2:01:03your auctions -- organs, it needs to be seen in the light of people

2:01:03 > 2:01:08giving their organs and donating to help other people. We need to be

2:01:08 > 2:01:11spreading the message that people should have a conversation about

2:01:11 > 2:01:18organ donation. It isn't something that we don't like to talk about and

2:01:18 > 2:01:20we should be actively promoting a conversation so that when the time

2:01:20 > 2:01:25comes families are aware of their children or their spouses decision

2:01:25 > 2:01:29on that and it will prevent any possible overriding of the decision

2:01:29 > 2:01:37as we see in Spain. At the moment it is estimated that only half of

2:01:37 > 2:01:41families have that conversation and I think it is achievable that we

2:01:41 > 2:01:45foster a culture of people wanting to donate the organs. I know at the

2:01:45 > 2:01:48moment we have one of the lowest rates in Europe but we also have one

2:01:48 > 2:01:52of the highest rates in Europe of donating living kidneys and that

2:01:52 > 2:01:56implies it is not against the British culture to donate organs but

2:01:56 > 2:02:01we are doing something fundamentally wrong. One of the ways I think we

2:02:01 > 2:02:06can achieve this is by ensuring there is absolutely no stigma in

2:02:06 > 2:02:10opting out. Today some of us may be organ donors but it does not mean

2:02:10 > 2:02:14that everyone has to be and we need to appreciate religious cultures,

2:02:14 > 2:02:19customs and people's sense of belief and on that point I do hope that

2:02:19 > 2:02:24this bill will mean that people can opt out of certain parts so that

2:02:24 > 2:02:29they can only donate certain organs or opt out of certain parts. I know

2:02:29 > 2:02:33that some religions do not want to denote their heart and some

2:02:33 > 2:02:39dominations of the Christian faith even advocate that and it is

2:02:39 > 2:02:45important that we are not excluding people from this process.I think

2:02:45 > 2:02:51the honourable member for giving way. Around 10% of people on the

2:02:51 > 2:02:54organ register have excluded donating their eyes, sometimes

2:02:54 > 2:02:57because it is squeamish and sometimes because of the thought of

2:02:57 > 2:03:04donating eyes in the future and should we preserve the abilities for

2:03:04 > 2:03:10people to opt out of donating organs they do not wish to?Choices the key

2:03:10 > 2:03:15to making this Bill Arthur as well as possible and also education so

2:03:15 > 2:03:20potentially some people might donate those parts if they know how the

2:03:20 > 2:03:24process will work but it has to be a personal choice because it is our

2:03:24 > 2:03:28body at the end of the day so we should promote and encourage people

2:03:28 > 2:03:34to help others rather than forcing them. Another point that has been

2:03:34 > 2:03:38mentioned and I don't want to labour it too much because I think it is

2:03:38 > 2:03:44very important but other members have effectively gone through

2:03:44 > 2:03:46reaching out to all communities, including those from ethnic

2:03:46 > 2:03:51minorities where the amount of donors is particularly low at the

2:03:51 > 2:03:59moment. Shockingly in March in 2017 there were 634 people from the black

2:03:59 > 2:04:04community who were in need of organs and only 72 people on the list died

2:04:04 > 2:04:11and were suitable organ donors so it is a really small proportion. Thank

2:04:11 > 2:04:19you for raising that. In our communitywe are experiencing a

2:04:19 > 2:04:23silent crisis because of their lack of knowledge to discuss organ

2:04:23 > 2:04:27donation with the family members who are concerned about the body

2:04:27 > 2:04:31integrating with the death. We take on board what you are saying and if

2:04:31 > 2:04:36people are mindful of that is what it is about, it is the lack of

2:04:36 > 2:04:39knowledge amongst our community, and with this bill coming in it will

2:04:39 > 2:04:45improve it.I thank the honourable member for her intervention. On

2:04:45 > 2:04:54another point only 1% of people that die a year die in suitable

2:04:54 > 2:04:57circumstances to save their organs for donation so it is important to

2:04:57 > 2:05:01have an honest conversation and not say this is a panacea to solve the

2:05:01 > 2:05:05problem because if you are on the organ register you will

2:05:05 > 2:05:08automatically get registration because that will give people false

2:05:08 > 2:05:12hope. We should potentially review the current regulations around age

2:05:12 > 2:05:16gaps for certain donations of organs. For example heart valves

2:05:16 > 2:05:21have the donation restriction of aged 60 but in countries of Spain

2:05:21 > 2:05:34they just look at the quality of the organ itself. I do

2:05:36 > 2:05:39think the most important mechanism to making sure that this Bill is as

2:05:39 > 2:05:41effective as possible is the transport infrastructure and the

2:05:41 > 2:05:43investment that we see around the entire staffing. It is no good

2:05:43 > 2:05:46unless we have enough helicopters and bikes and a train staff and

2:05:46 > 2:05:50support workers to support the bill. We must support people in rural

2:05:50 > 2:05:53areas as well as urban areas because they are harder to get to and they

2:05:53 > 2:05:58should not be any less likely to be the benefits of donations. Other

2:05:58 > 2:06:03countries that have introduced this bill, including France, Sweden and

2:06:03 > 2:06:05Bulgaria, have actually reduced their organ donations and this is in

2:06:05 > 2:06:11part because of a lack of investment in infrastructure so it is crucial.

2:06:11 > 2:06:15I would like to end by saying we should be quite bold as well when we

2:06:15 > 2:06:20review this. There are countries in the world that adopt a policy that I

2:06:20 > 2:06:23was originally very uneasy with, I will admit, and I looked at it and

2:06:23 > 2:06:29it says if you are an open donor yourself and you have not opt out of

2:06:29 > 2:06:35the system, you have a higher priority to be able to receive a

2:06:35 > 2:06:38donation of an organ. Originally I was uneasy but I think actually it

2:06:38 > 2:06:41is quite fair because if you are prepared to give a donation then you

2:06:41 > 2:06:47should be more likely to receive it. So, to conclude, Madam Deputy

2:06:47 > 2:06:51Speaker, the UK has the lowest donation rates in the world, some of

2:06:51 > 2:06:56the lowest donation rates, and it is really not good enough. I am hugely

2:06:56 > 2:07:00supportive of the bill today but I echo caution that it depends on the

2:07:00 > 2:07:06amount of infrastructure, education and support that we give people to

2:07:06 > 2:07:10ensure that this Bill is as successful as possible.I would like

2:07:10 > 2:07:14to tout the Right Honourable member for proposing this important private

2:07:14 > 2:07:20members bill. The NHS has just reached the historic milestone of 70

2:07:20 > 2:07:24years and as a country and the society we are pride of the advances

2:07:24 > 2:07:28we have made it this time and because of advances in organ

2:07:28 > 2:07:32donation and transplantation 50,000 people are alive today. Most people

2:07:32 > 2:07:38are willing to donate their organs after they died that only 36% of the

2:07:38 > 2:07:41population on the register. Organ donation is increasing gradually but

2:07:41 > 2:07:45suddenly it is not keeping pace on the number of people on the

2:07:45 > 2:07:48transplant waiting list and the British Heart Foundation I let that

2:07:48 > 2:07:52an average of three people a day die in need of an organ. As a member who

2:07:52 > 2:07:57was a cardiac nurse in a previous job I am only too aware of how

2:07:57 > 2:07:59desperate patient can become when waiting for an organ to become

2:07:59 > 2:08:03available. I saw first-hand the distressed people suffered while

2:08:03 > 2:08:08waiting for a heart transplant or any other organ. In Spain and

2:08:08 > 2:08:13Belgium are softer opt out approach has facilitated a cultural change

2:08:13 > 2:08:16that has facilitated higher donor rates so I am here to support my

2:08:16 > 2:08:20right honourable friend to address this bleak statistics and bring a

2:08:20 > 2:08:23discussion of organ donation back to the dinner tables of families across

2:08:23 > 2:08:28the UK. I would like to express my sincere thanks to the Daily Mirror

2:08:28 > 2:08:31for the campaign in support of this shown the public the public the gift

2:08:31 > 2:08:35of life thanks to those who donate organs. One organ donor can

2:08:35 > 2:08:39transform as many as nine lives and it has already been mentioned by

2:08:39 > 2:08:43other Honourable members the UK has some of the lowest family consent

2:08:43 > 2:08:47rates in Europe. In Wales the Welsh government bravely introduced deemed

2:08:47 > 2:08:52consent and the rate at which Welsh families are proving rather than

2:08:52 > 2:08:55refusing the donation of their loved ones has shown a marked increase

2:08:55 > 2:09:01compared to the rest of the UK. The latest Welsh organ donation and

2:09:01 > 2:09:05transplantation statistics display a 72% consent rate, putting Wales

2:09:05 > 2:09:13above of UK countries.Thanks for giving way. It is an excellent

2:09:13 > 2:09:17advantage of how Wales is leading the way on changing the emphasis on

2:09:17 > 2:09:20organ donation. Does she share my dismay that no one from the benches

2:09:20 > 2:09:25of the SNP have joined us today? It is not just a cross-border issue but

2:09:25 > 2:09:31they have blocked this Bill in the Scottish parliament and they

2:09:31 > 2:09:34continue to block it so why have they not lead the way on this? Do

2:09:34 > 2:09:39they share my concern on that?I thank the honourable member for his

2:09:39 > 2:09:42intervention and I share the concern. Most will today I really

2:09:42 > 2:09:45hoped we would have cross-party consensus for this because I think

2:09:45 > 2:09:51it is something that we can all come together on. In the East Midlands

2:09:51 > 2:09:54where I represent a constituency of Lincoln organ donation is that the

2:09:54 > 2:10:07lowest in the UK and in one year there were

2:10:09 > 2:10:12just 74 organ donors in the whole of the East Midlands and in my

2:10:12 > 2:10:14constituency there are around 40,000 registered donors and I are one of

2:10:14 > 2:10:17them with a card in my bag. I am proud of the people in Lincoln that

2:10:17 > 2:10:19even though this number represents an opportunity only a small number

2:10:19 > 2:10:23on the register passed away in such a way that allows their Dorgan is to

2:10:23 > 2:10:25be donated and only ten deceased donors in Lincoln could get donate

2:10:25 > 2:10:28their organs in the last five years. This bill could save 500 lives a

2:10:28 > 2:10:30year and we need sensitive dialogue with those suffering serious

2:10:30 > 2:10:32illnesses of the possible life-saving capacity their donations

2:10:32 > 2:10:36could make sure the worst occur. Conversations with grieving families

2:10:36 > 2:10:40can often be crucial in this process. Yesterday I spoke about the

2:10:40 > 2:10:43loss of my daughter and it is something for any family member to

2:10:43 > 2:10:48be lost is just a terrible, terrible thing, and it stays with you for

2:10:48 > 2:10:52ever but, you know what, if you can donate an organ and turn a negative

2:10:52 > 2:10:57into a positive, how much better is that? How much better could that be

2:10:57 > 2:11:03just to salvage some positivity out of that? I just want to finish by

2:11:03 > 2:11:06saying the government have announced a consultation on an opt out consent

2:11:06 > 2:11:10on organ donation for the 6th of March and the success of this

2:11:10 > 2:11:13private members bill may be the vehicle for that change. I will

2:11:13 > 2:11:18finish by saying that I really hope there will be cross-party support

2:11:18 > 2:11:25for this and I hope it goes ahead. Thank you.

2:11:25 > 2:11:30I congratulate the honourable member from commentary North West for

2:11:30 > 2:11:33bringing this here today and I can tell him now that this bill would

2:11:33 > 2:11:40pass. It has been said by many that 80% of British society actually

2:11:40 > 2:11:44support organ donation but there are the other 20% who do not and for me

2:11:44 > 2:11:48I certainly want to speak on the half of those to ensure that they

2:11:48 > 2:11:54are carried along with this debate rather than left behind. I also want

2:11:54 > 2:11:59to mention a gentleman in my constituency, VJ Patel, he was

2:11:59 > 2:12:02unnecessarily recently killed and his family took great comfort from

2:12:02 > 2:12:06the fact that his organs were used to help other people. For me that is

2:12:06 > 2:12:12such a gift and I absolutely commend anyone who does that, and indeed

2:12:12 > 2:12:17their families for allowing such actions to take place full is top it

2:12:17 > 2:12:21is on that basis that many people make preparations to be organ donors

2:12:21 > 2:12:25after they die and their families are an integral part of the process.

2:12:25 > 2:12:29It is within this wider framework that the crucial role for me of the

2:12:29 > 2:12:33family and the donor must be understood. As part of their

2:12:33 > 2:12:39ownership of the body after a person dies, and their duties towards it,

2:12:39 > 2:12:42our central aspect of the grieving process. We've recently had a lot of

2:12:42 > 2:12:46concern over a coroner who has refused to release bodies and it is

2:12:46 > 2:12:57causing a lot of

2:12:58 > 2:12:59concern to members of my constituency. It follows logically

2:12:59 > 2:13:02that is the family who is involved in organ donation and it is their

2:13:02 > 2:13:05consent that I believe is paramount at a crucial time. These families

2:13:05 > 2:13:07need reassurance along their pathway towards consent. It has been

2:13:07 > 2:13:08mentioned today that there are religious differences about donation

2:13:08 > 2:13:12but I have to say it is incorrect. Both the Islamic and Judaism allows

2:13:12 > 2:13:17organ transplants, it live set from live patients and patients who have

2:13:17 > 2:13:22deceased, in order to continue and to save life. A factor that perhaps

2:13:22 > 2:13:26people are not aware of, a factor that may influence some families

2:13:26 > 2:13:30decision-making process is how they decide the point of death. Some

2:13:30 > 2:13:36people regard death is being defined by cardiovascular criteria, when the

2:13:36 > 2:13:40art ceases to function. In contrast to that there is a definite sceptred

2:13:40 > 2:13:45by others that cessation of brain function, brainstem death, is their

2:13:45 > 2:13:49criteria, and it is these two distinctions that makes people

2:13:49 > 2:13:53sometimes uncomfortable about donation. The National Institute for

2:13:53 > 2:13:56clinical excellence has recognised both definitions of death when it

2:13:56 > 2:13:59formulated the current guidelines that explain how health care

2:13:59 > 2:14:03professionals should support a bereaved family when discussing

2:14:03 > 2:14:07Brook organ donation. One pathway is for those who only accept

2:14:07 > 2:14:10cardiovascular death and the other is for those who accept brain stem

2:14:10 > 2:14:15death. As a result families are helped to understand how they may be

2:14:15 > 2:14:19able to combine out your deceased organ is donation a way that does

2:14:19 > 2:14:22not interfere with religious traditions. The role someone

2:14:22 > 2:14:27accessible to the family to guide them through the process is the most

2:14:27 > 2:14:31constructive proposal I can think of. This is quite properly and

2:14:31 > 2:14:36resourced transplant coordinator ought to be able to do. It is a way

2:14:36 > 2:14:41to support families at a terrible time in their lives. In practice,

2:14:41 > 2:14:44that will be less institutional incentives for health services to

2:14:44 > 2:14:50employed under system currently proposed today.

2:14:50 > 2:14:55The issue of transplantation is one of the Government is well aware of.

2:14:55 > 2:14:59It cannot plead ignorance that our religious communities are

2:14:59 > 2:15:04unresponsive to human need. In 2013 leading Muslim and Jewish groups

2:15:04 > 2:15:07rhetorically to the Government suggesting a way forward whereby an

2:15:07 > 2:15:10enhanced and improved opt in system could be introduced which would

2:15:10 > 2:15:13alleviate their concerns. Improvements would include a

2:15:13 > 2:15:19government backed statement that dues and Muslims could sign enabling

2:15:19 > 2:15:25them to donate organs in a manner compatible with their beliefs. It

2:15:25 > 2:15:29would enable the two communities to be even more supportive of an opt in

2:15:29 > 2:15:34system than they have been in the past. This proposal has been raised

2:15:34 > 2:15:36on several occasions subsequently but I have to say to the minister I

2:15:36 > 2:15:42am afraid it has been ignored. Earlier in the honourable member

2:15:42 > 2:15:46from Coventry North West's speed, you mentioned Lord Sacks who oppose

2:15:46 > 2:15:54them measures. I can tell him that the current Chief Rabbi would

2:15:54 > 2:15:58actually be in favour of this proposal as I have just outlined.

2:15:58 > 2:16:02But life has changed from many people and indeed that has changed

2:16:02 > 2:16:07from many people. More people want to understandably spend their final

2:16:07 > 2:16:12months at home so if they die at home organ donation is much less

2:16:12 > 2:16:14likely so health care professionals needed to secure consent for

2:16:14 > 2:16:19donation must have a conversation with organ donors and loved ones

2:16:19 > 2:16:23about why they are best placed to give the gift of life if they remain

2:16:23 > 2:16:27in hospital. This conversation is a very natural feature of an opt in

2:16:27 > 2:16:32feature however under an opt out so Vista would be little incentive to

2:16:32 > 2:16:36have that complex discussions with potential donors. The result might

2:16:36 > 2:16:43be that patients could drift to spend their last month in hospitals.

2:16:43 > 2:16:51Thank you. I think my honourable friend, the doctor, can I ask my

2:16:51 > 2:16:56honourable friend, how quickly can the medical profession assess that

2:16:56 > 2:17:04someone who has died is the right sort of person for a donation,

2:17:04 > 2:17:08because so few people apparently are at the right fit for donation. 1% as

2:17:08 > 2:17:14I understand it.I can't mislead the House because I am not a medical

2:17:14 > 2:17:18doctor unfortunately and I would not be able to answer that question. I'm

2:17:18 > 2:17:22certainly content to talk about socio- economic deprivation in

2:17:22 > 2:17:26places like Cornwall as part of my Ph.D. Thesis but on this issue I

2:17:26 > 2:17:31will leave it alone. The honourable member has mentioned the 1% but

2:17:31 > 2:17:37other potential donors and their families could be intimidated by

2:17:37 > 2:17:41clinical settings or even language skills or be emotionally strut and

2:17:41 > 2:17:44unable to engage in a system which lacks incentives to ensure

2:17:44 > 2:17:48professional support them and such potential donors and families could

2:17:48 > 2:17:52find their rights eroded in this practice. The honourable member for

2:17:52 > 2:17:56Shipley made a point which I wished to echo. The underlying questions

2:17:56 > 2:18:03raised by that patients should be treated as citizens whose active

2:18:03 > 2:18:08consent must be sought as a legal duty or subjects who ability to

2:18:08 > 2:18:11choose or not depends on the goodwill and well-meaning but

2:18:11 > 2:18:16overstretched professionals. Ultimately an opt in system that

2:18:16 > 2:18:19harnesses the role of both religious and civil society to increase organ

2:18:19 > 2:18:24donation from deceased donors is for me the best way forward to maximise

2:18:24 > 2:18:27organ donations while defending not only religious freedoms but also the

2:18:27 > 2:18:36rights of all potential donors and families.Thank you. I will keep my

2:18:36 > 2:18:41remarks rather brief because I also support the Bill and I am delighted

2:18:41 > 2:18:45to see the member for Coventry North West use this slot for this very

2:18:45 > 2:18:49noble cause. I briefly wanted to mention the bright green stars

2:18:49 > 2:18:53campaign that was across Torbay four years ago and the bright green star

2:18:53 > 2:18:57man went around hanging up the stars across many points of the bay to

2:18:57 > 2:19:02encourage more people to think about organ donations and that is

2:19:02 > 2:19:05following his own daughter Lottie who when she was three getting a

2:19:05 > 2:19:10transplant, one of the lucky ones to get one very quickly. I think that

2:19:10 > 2:19:13safeguards in the Bill provide the options for those who would strongly

2:19:13 > 2:19:19adopt the idea of organ donation and the ability for families to supply

2:19:19 > 2:19:24evidence someone objected on grounds to this if they had known about the

2:19:24 > 2:19:31opt out system. For me, I don't see my body as a piece of property that

2:19:31 > 2:19:35my relatives will inherit on my death. I see it something is very

2:19:35 > 2:19:39special and if there is something we can do to help people continue to

2:19:39 > 2:19:43live after our light on this earth is finished I think that is

2:19:43 > 2:19:46thoroughly noble. One of the ways I can do that is not just registering

2:19:46 > 2:19:49to be an organ donor but by supporting the Bill today. This will

2:19:49 > 2:19:54save lives in Torbay and across the country and it is very welcome here

2:19:54 > 2:20:01and I hope it will get its second reading.Thank you very much, Madam

2:20:01 > 2:20:05Deputy Speaker. I want to start by thanking my honourable friend, the

2:20:05 > 2:20:12member for commentary Northwest, for securing this very important debate

2:20:12 > 2:20:16and introducing this very important Bill and for his powerful and moving

2:20:16 > 2:20:20opening speech this morning. I would also like to thank other honourable