15/03/2018

0:00:00 > 0:00:02struggles to meet their own energy bills. Monday the 26th of March

0:00:02 > 0:00:10would be an ideal question to raise them at DWP questions.Statement,

0:00:10 > 0:00:12the Secretary of State for housing communities and local Government.

0:00:12 > 0:00:19Secretary Sajid Javid.Thank you, Mr Speaker. With permission, I wish to

0:00:19 > 0:00:23make a statement on issues arising from the Metropolitan Police

0:00:23 > 0:00:25investigation into the Grenfell Tower tragedy. This investigation

0:00:25 > 0:00:30has involved a thorough examination of every aspect of the tower,

0:00:30 > 0:00:38including from stores to flats on the property. These stores include a

0:00:38 > 0:00:41glazed fire door, manufactured around five years ago. -- these

0:00:41 > 0:00:49doors. Initial indications indicates the door is designed to resist

0:00:49 > 0:00:55Firefox 30 minutes, but when tested by the Metropolitan Police, failed

0:00:55 > 0:01:00after approximately 15 minutes. -- resist fire for 30 minutes. This

0:01:00 > 0:01:04test result might have wider invitations for public safety, and

0:01:04 > 0:01:07the police alerted my department. The Government immediately sought

0:01:07 > 0:01:12advice from the Independent expert panel to test the findings to see

0:01:12 > 0:01:18whether any action was required as a result. This expert panel is made up

0:01:18 > 0:01:22of a range of building and fire safety experts, and chaired by the

0:01:22 > 0:01:25former London Fire Commissioner and former Government 's chief fire and

0:01:25 > 0:01:31rescue adviser. The panel consulted with letters incidents from the net

0:01:31 > 0:01:36and police, the Government's chief scientific advisers, and the

0:01:36 > 0:01:40National Fire chiefs Council. -- the Metropolitan Police. Following this,

0:01:40 > 0:01:44the expert panel has advised that risks to public safety remain low.

0:01:44 > 0:01:49There is no change to fire safety advice that the public should

0:01:49 > 0:01:52follow. I nevertheless fully appreciate that this news will be

0:01:52 > 0:01:56troubling for many people, not least all those affected by the Grenfell

0:01:56 > 0:02:02tragedy. That is why, based on expert advice, we have begun the

0:02:02 > 0:02:06process of conducting further tests and will continue to consult with

0:02:06 > 0:02:12the expert panel to consider the invocations of these further tests.

0:02:12 > 0:02:15I made it clear that the necessary tests and assessments must be

0:02:15 > 0:02:19carried out thoroughly, but that pace. There is no evidence that this

0:02:19 > 0:02:27is a systemic issue. Data between 2009 and 2017 shows that fire does

0:02:27 > 0:02:34not generally spread beyond the room of origin. I'll also clear that my

0:02:34 > 0:02:39department and the Metropolitan Police will ensure the believed and

0:02:39 > 0:02:42survivors are kept informed of progress, and commits to updating

0:02:42 > 0:02:45the House when further information is available, and no later than the

0:02:45 > 0:02:51end of April. I should stress that, in carrying out these tests,

0:02:51 > 0:02:56conclusions should not be drawn about the nature of the cause of the

0:02:56 > 0:03:00Grenfell tragedy. That is a matter for a separate police investigation,

0:03:00 > 0:03:08and it must be allowed to run its course. Honourable members will be

0:03:08 > 0:03:12aware that an independent review is being undertaken of building

0:03:12 > 0:03:15regulations and fire safety to ensure that the regulatory system is

0:03:15 > 0:03:20sufficiently robust. They have been made aware of this wood these latest

0:03:20 > 0:03:24findings. Having accepted the initial recommendations that were

0:03:24 > 0:03:30set out in her interim report in December, we look forward to the

0:03:30 > 0:03:36final report. Nine months ago, we faced a loss of life and suffering

0:03:36 > 0:03:41on an unimaginable scale at Grenfell. Since then, significant

0:03:41 > 0:03:44efforts have been made by the Government and others to support

0:03:44 > 0:03:48survivors, to find them new homes, and to help keep people safe.

0:03:48 > 0:03:51However, I know that the matter raised today will of course raise

0:03:51 > 0:03:56questions, and I want to reiterate that on the basis of expert advice,

0:03:56 > 0:04:01my department has received, there is no evidence that risks to the public

0:04:01 > 0:04:05have changed. I want to reassure honourable members that all possible

0:04:05 > 0:04:09steps are being taken to properly investigate the issues, and to take

0:04:09 > 0:04:12action where needed. Public safety is paramount, and our position is

0:04:12 > 0:04:18clear. The events of the 14th of June 2017 must never be allowed to

0:04:18 > 0:04:25happen again. I commend this statement to the House.Can I begin

0:04:25 > 0:04:32by thanking the Secretary of State for his statement? Grenfell nine

0:04:32 > 0:04:35months on, the human tragedy of Grenfell still lives with others

0:04:35 > 0:04:41all, and the realisation that we saw the systemic failure of our system

0:04:41 > 0:04:44of building checks and building controls, and we must keep that in

0:04:44 > 0:04:51mind, because as the Secretary of State said, and I will always

0:04:51 > 0:04:55endorses words, public safety has to be paramount. But that means

0:04:55 > 0:04:57transparency, it means accountability, and it means a

0:04:57 > 0:05:03driving sense of urgency. I have to say, I welcome his transparency in

0:05:03 > 0:05:08bringing forward this statement at the earliest possible stage, it is

0:05:08 > 0:05:12right and proper for this to be in the public domain, so thank you for

0:05:12 > 0:05:15that. But I think you would also agree with me that it can never be

0:05:15 > 0:05:20open to the charge of physical point-scoring for the opposition to

0:05:20 > 0:05:24demand that accountability, to demand the Government is to

0:05:24 > 0:05:28demonstrate its sense of urgency. -- political point scoring. But if I

0:05:28 > 0:05:33can say, I was a little supply is in his statement at one particular

0:05:33 > 0:05:38point. -- a little surprised. My thanks to the Metropolitan Police

0:05:38 > 0:05:45for the work they have done. The secretary told us that this test

0:05:45 > 0:05:48result might have wider implications for public safety, and consequently

0:05:48 > 0:05:53alerted his department. The Secretary of State and then went on,

0:05:53 > 0:05:56and this is where I am surprised, but there is no evidence that this

0:05:56 > 0:06:04is a systemic issue. He then said, and I was astounded by this, data

0:06:04 > 0:06:07between 2009 and 2017 shows fire does not generally spread beyond the

0:06:07 > 0:06:12rim of origin. That may be true, but all we know that of course in the

0:06:12 > 0:06:18case of Grenfell Tower, that is exactly what did happen. -- the room

0:06:18 > 0:06:21of origin. The fire spread and spread, so we cannot see this with

0:06:21 > 0:06:25any sense of complacency. If this is not systemic, what assessment has

0:06:25 > 0:06:29been made of how many buildings are potentially affected by this? How

0:06:29 > 0:06:34many individual flats? How many people have fire doors which simply

0:06:34 > 0:06:47do not do the job? What steps is he taking to make that kind of

0:06:47 > 0:06:53determination? Because that's the at which the words, this is not

0:06:53 > 0:06:58systemic, begin to ring a little incredible. There may be a systemic

0:06:58 > 0:07:02problem, and got to begin to recognise that if this is wide

0:07:02 > 0:07:07scale, we have just that systemic problem. I then say to the Secretary

0:07:07 > 0:07:14of State, we need a real sense of urgency in this, as in other areas

0:07:14 > 0:07:17of building control, tower block residents are up and down the

0:07:17 > 0:07:25country are entitled to know what the scale of this issue is. And that

0:07:25 > 0:07:28sense of urgency, must say to be Secretary of State, has not always

0:07:28 > 0:07:33been apparent in all the Government's actions. We saw earlier

0:07:33 > 0:07:37this week, and I think he was themselves a little embarrassed when

0:07:37 > 0:07:42he was not able to answer the question put during question time,

0:07:42 > 0:07:47as to how many tower blocks are unsafe. Grenfell. He was not able to

0:07:47 > 0:07:52say particularly how many private tower blocks of the same aluminium

0:07:52 > 0:07:58composite cladding that was used in Grenfell up and down the country. We

0:07:58 > 0:08:03now need some urgency to get those answers. I hope the Secretary of

0:08:03 > 0:08:06State can tell us when he will have that information when we can begin

0:08:06 > 0:08:11to give a sense of reassurance for people. I would also say to him that

0:08:11 > 0:08:16any recent was in answer to my right honourable friend the Shadow housing

0:08:16 > 0:08:18secretary, the department confirmed that no funding had yet been

0:08:18 > 0:08:23provided to any one of the local authorities who had contacted his

0:08:23 > 0:08:28department. We were told at question time that no funding requested had

0:08:28 > 0:08:32been refused, but it is not quite the full truth if they are reality

0:08:32 > 0:08:38is that no funding requests had actually been ceded to. Perhaps he

0:08:38 > 0:08:41can update is and tells when local authorities, who really do want to

0:08:41 > 0:08:46get on with this work, will seek the assistance from the central

0:08:46 > 0:08:52Government that he committed to now nearly nine months ago.

0:08:52 > 0:08:56The upshot is that nine months on, only seven of more than 300 tower

0:08:56 > 0:08:59blocks that had been identified as having dangerous cladding have had

0:08:59 > 0:09:06that cladding removed and replaced with something more acceptable. This

0:09:06 > 0:09:15is simply not good enough.Mr Speaker, I thank the honourable

0:09:15 > 0:09:20gentleman for his comments and I am happy to answer the point is the

0:09:20 > 0:09:29honourable gentleman has made. First of all, we all agree that public

0:09:29 > 0:09:33safety is the number-one issue here. It is paramount. He will know that

0:09:33 > 0:09:39since the tragedy, as well as the police investigation and the work

0:09:39 > 0:09:42being done through the public inquiry, there are lessons for

0:09:42 > 0:09:48public safety and the honourable gentleman will remember that right

0:09:48 > 0:09:55from the start, the expert panel was convened in the days with the

0:09:55 > 0:09:58emergency advice that was necessary, that went out widely through owners

0:09:58 > 0:10:04of private buildings. The initial sample testing and that the

0:10:04 > 0:10:09large-scale testing was set up and also the independent review that is

0:10:09 > 0:10:16now being done. I wanted to see an interim report with some of the

0:10:16 > 0:10:20early lessons we can act on and to remind the honourable gentleman that

0:10:20 > 0:10:22with that interim report, there are a number of recommendations that

0:10:22 > 0:10:27were made by Dame Judith Hackett which we have accepted and start

0:10:27 > 0:10:30implementing each one of those. Dame Judith Hackett is now working on her

0:10:30 > 0:10:37final report, which is due for the spring, to reflect the sense of

0:10:37 > 0:10:45urgency. What I have come to the House with today, and I think it is

0:10:45 > 0:10:49correct that once the expert panel and the police were comfortable that

0:10:49 > 0:10:52this information can be publicly shared, it is right to be

0:10:52 > 0:10:58transparent as quickly as possible and this is correct to create that

0:10:58 > 0:11:02public trust that is necessary so that there is no undue distress

0:11:02 > 0:11:08caused to anyone. With this information, it is correct that we

0:11:08 > 0:11:14are led throughout the process by the expert panel and the industry

0:11:14 > 0:11:18advisers that have been put in place, as well as the work that has

0:11:18 > 0:11:22been done by the police. To give the honourable gentleman more

0:11:22 > 0:11:27information, as well as consulting the expert panel, the government has

0:11:27 > 0:11:32consulted the fire chiefs Council, the scientific advisers, the police

0:11:32 > 0:11:36and the London Fire Brigade. As a result of all this, the expert panel

0:11:36 > 0:11:41has concluded that risk to public safety remained low, that there is

0:11:41 > 0:11:45no change to fire safety advice, that a programme with additional

0:11:45 > 0:11:49testing has to be commissioned to determine the cause of the failed

0:11:49 > 0:11:54test. It is essential that additional testing is required. It

0:11:54 > 0:11:59is going on and it has to be thorough and at pace, but I think

0:11:59 > 0:12:02the honourable gentleman would agree that we shouldn't rush it so that we

0:12:02 > 0:12:07get inappropriate results. It should be done properly, led by the experts

0:12:07 > 0:12:15and on their advice. That is why I said in mice that month earlier that

0:12:15 > 0:12:21there is no evidence of a systemic problem. That is their advice so far

0:12:21 > 0:12:27and are taking their advice while we continue with further tests. The

0:12:27 > 0:12:30honourable gentleman also seemed to suggest that work was not being done

0:12:30 > 0:12:37urgently. I would refute that. At every step of the way, whether it is

0:12:37 > 0:12:39today's information or other information that has come to light

0:12:39 > 0:12:48since the fire, we have worked as urgently as possible. That includes

0:12:48 > 0:12:52the remediation of existing buildings with ASEAN cladding, and

0:12:52 > 0:12:59301 buildings have so far been identified. Almost 60% have begun

0:12:59 > 0:13:05the remediation work and seven have completed as he said. But in every

0:13:05 > 0:13:10single case, because public safety is paramount, interim measures were

0:13:10 > 0:13:14put in place immediately with expert advice, often from the local fire

0:13:14 > 0:13:18brigade. And those remain in place. That is why people can be

0:13:18 > 0:13:21comfortable that every measure is being taken to make sure that they

0:13:21 > 0:13:29remain safe.I think the House will support my right honourable friend

0:13:29 > 0:13:33on the causes and waiting to get the determination of those

0:13:33 > 0:13:38investigating. We know about the liabilities and risks. You give us

0:13:38 > 0:13:42has mentioned the private leaseholders in private blocks. We

0:13:42 > 0:13:45have had the first tribunal decision in Croydon this week and cityscape,

0:13:45 > 0:13:52which is owned by a group of interests where ordinary taxpaying

0:13:52 > 0:13:57residents are being asked to pay thousands of pounds. The same thing

0:13:57 > 0:14:03is happening in Greenwich and Liverpool, and I could name the

0:14:03 > 0:14:08other 129 blocks. Can I put it to my right honourable friend that he

0:14:08 > 0:14:17ought to get William Waldorf Astor's Abacus interests in together with

0:14:17 > 0:14:19the builders, together with the leaseholders and are represented to

0:14:19 > 0:14:22us, to have a Round Table in the open to say instead of waiting two

0:14:22 > 0:14:28years until an inquiry, it is time to get these people together and say

0:14:28 > 0:14:32to them perhaps a simple deal to go to the builders put up a third, the

0:14:32 > 0:14:35freeholders put up a third and the government/ tenants put up a third

0:14:35 > 0:14:44and get the cladding removed and replaced?I am firstly aware of the

0:14:44 > 0:14:47legal judgment he referred to and we are considering carefully its

0:14:47 > 0:14:54implications. But I have said a number of times in this House that

0:14:54 > 0:14:58whatever the legal situation might be, the private owners of buildings

0:14:58 > 0:15:03should take their lead from the public sector and should take

0:15:03 > 0:15:07responsibility for the additional costs. They might want to look at

0:15:07 > 0:15:09insurance claims, warranties and legal action they might be able to

0:15:09 > 0:15:14take themselves. I also want to make sure that leaseholders get the

0:15:14 > 0:15:18advice they need. That is why we have increased funding for the

0:15:18 > 0:15:22leasehold advisory service. With new concerns emerging nine months after

0:15:22 > 0:15:25Grenfell, it is no surprise that residents in high-rise buildings

0:15:25 > 0:15:30remain extremely concerned. One of the areas of possible reassurance

0:15:30 > 0:15:35for them was the possibility of retrofitting of sprinklers. My local

0:15:35 > 0:15:39authority, Westminster, has advised that they are concerned about

0:15:39 > 0:15:44proceeding with retrofitting because they have no right of access to the

0:15:44 > 0:15:47one in three properties that are in private ownership in social housing

0:15:47 > 0:15:50blocks. This isn't a matter of regulation, it's a matter of

0:15:50 > 0:15:55ensuring access. Will the Secretary of State advise how we can take this

0:15:55 > 0:15:59forward as a matter of urgency separate councils that do wish to

0:15:59 > 0:16:05proceed with retrofitting are able to do so? Where I agree with the

0:16:05 > 0:16:11honourable lady is that in light of the information that has come about

0:16:11 > 0:16:15since the tragedy, whatever action local authorities need to take to

0:16:15 > 0:16:19keep residents safe in high-rise buildings is exactly what is

0:16:19 > 0:16:26expected of them and they have our support in doing so. When it comes

0:16:26 > 0:16:28to sprinklers, if that is the determination of the local

0:16:28 > 0:16:33authority, that is their decision to be made and they will get the

0:16:33 > 0:16:37financial flexibility to support them. If there are other issues that

0:16:37 > 0:16:40are getting in the way, we will be happy to look at them. A number of

0:16:40 > 0:16:43local authorities have approached us and we will help them all in every

0:16:43 > 0:16:51way. A number of high-rise office blocks in Barnet are being converted

0:16:51 > 0:16:54to residential use using permitted development rights without the need

0:16:54 > 0:16:56for planning permission, leading some to fear design standards will

0:16:56 > 0:17:02be compromised because of the absence of a planning process.Will

0:17:02 > 0:17:06the government take action to ensure that fire safety standards are not

0:17:06 > 0:17:12compromised in the event of these kind of conversions?I can reassure

0:17:12 > 0:17:17my right honourable friend that even when building work is done under

0:17:17 > 0:17:23permitted regulations, it still requires that work to be subject to

0:17:23 > 0:17:29building regulations including all the regulations around safety. There

0:17:29 > 0:17:35is no way any builder can avoid that. So I hope that is some

0:17:35 > 0:17:39reassurance to her residence. The regulations are still in place, even

0:17:39 > 0:17:45when it is a permitted development right.The Grenfell Tower fire laid

0:17:45 > 0:17:49bare profound injustice is at the heart of the UK housing system and

0:17:49 > 0:17:53every revelation from the investigation makes that picture

0:17:53 > 0:17:56starker and clearer. So far, the government has not made available a

0:17:56 > 0:18:02single penny of new government money for works which are essential to

0:18:02 > 0:18:05respond to mitigate the risks revealed as a consequence of

0:18:05 > 0:18:09Grenfell. Unless the government does so, it is simply meeting out further

0:18:09 > 0:18:12injustice to leaseholders who will face very large bills and tenants

0:18:12 > 0:18:17who will see much needed major works provide. Will the Secretary of State

0:18:17 > 0:18:21take the opportunity of this latest revelation to commit new government

0:18:21 > 0:18:27resources to address the impact of the Grenfell Tower fire for fire

0:18:27 > 0:18:31safety across the country and right the wrongs of the heart of the UK

0:18:31 > 0:18:39housing system?Two things. Firstly, with the work being done by local

0:18:39 > 0:18:43authorities, we have made it clear that we will provide them with the

0:18:43 > 0:18:46financial flexibility if they needed to do any necessary work for fire

0:18:46 > 0:18:51safety. That has been clear from the start. On the wider issue of social

0:18:51 > 0:18:55housing and the wider lessons to be learned, that is why we have the

0:18:55 > 0:19:02green paper and that is why we will publish the green paper in due

0:19:02 > 0:19:08course after proper consultation.I commend my right honourable friend

0:19:08 > 0:19:12for not only his statement today, but keeping the House updated with

0:19:12 > 0:19:19progress on this tragedy. Dame Judith Kit is at building

0:19:19 > 0:19:24regulations -- Dame Judi Dench it. We have asked as a select committee

0:19:24 > 0:19:31for her to look at part P of those relations. At the moment, there

0:19:31 > 0:19:35seems to be a lack of clarity over the use of combustible materials

0:19:35 > 0:19:41within high-rise buildings. Can my right honourable friend commit to

0:19:41 > 0:19:44thoroughly reviewing building regulations, in particular taking

0:19:44 > 0:19:48into account the evidence that has emerged today? The reality is that

0:19:48 > 0:19:54whilst fires may be retained within a room normally, this was not normal

0:19:54 > 0:19:58circumstances, but could happen again because it was an explosion

0:19:58 > 0:20:04caused by an electrical fire, which could then be replicated once again.

0:20:04 > 0:20:10My honourable friend is right to raise this. He will know that Dame

0:20:10 > 0:20:14Judith Hackitt's work is independent. But I know she takes

0:20:14 > 0:20:18the issue my honourable friend has raised very seriously and my

0:20:18 > 0:20:24honourable friend me know that in her interim report, she recommended

0:20:24 > 0:20:31a review of work to be done to clarify and that work has already

0:20:31 > 0:20:35begun within the department and we hope to consult on that in the

0:20:35 > 0:20:41summer.This is obviously a worrying development, reinforcing Dame Judith

0:20:41 > 0:20:45Hackitt's interim findings of cultural change needed across the

0:20:45 > 0:20:49board referred to by the Secretary of State. We look forward to her

0:20:49 > 0:20:53conclusions, hopefully including the updating of the gathered in document

0:20:53 > 0:20:56B. What assistance cover Secretary of State offer leaseholders now

0:20:56 > 0:21:02facing bills of thousands of pounds for fire marshals, replacement

0:21:02 > 0:21:06cladding and now possibly for new fire doors, when they have no

0:21:06 > 0:21:08responsibility for the predicament in which they find themselves? The

0:21:08 > 0:21:14honourable gentleman asked the question. The Secretary of State's

0:21:14 > 0:21:17exhortations on property management companies and freeholders are

0:21:17 > 0:21:28falling on deaf ears. Leaseholders are having to pick up the tab.I

0:21:28 > 0:21:31thank the honourable gentleman for welcoming the work that Dame Judith

0:21:31 > 0:21:34Hackitt is doing. On the issue of leaseholders, the government

0:21:34 > 0:21:38understands the situation they are in. It is obviously distressing for

0:21:38 > 0:21:44many people. I don't accept that what I have said about the moral

0:21:44 > 0:21:48duty of owners is falling on deaf ears. There have been a number of

0:21:48 > 0:21:52instances where we have got involved and some of the private owners have

0:21:52 > 0:21:55listened. They do not wish to be public about it, but at least they

0:21:55 > 0:22:01have helped and listened. I am keeping the issue under review and

0:22:01 > 0:22:07looking to see what more we can do. I know we have all been deeply moved

0:22:07 > 0:22:12by the dignity of the survivors, the bereaved and the volunteers when it

0:22:12 > 0:22:17comes to the Grenfell Tower disaster. Many of us have also had

0:22:17 > 0:22:20casework and individuals come to us with concerns about where they live.

0:22:20 > 0:22:24Can my right honourable friend commit to continuing to do

0:22:24 > 0:22:29everything in his power to ensure that they get the help, the support

0:22:29 > 0:22:39and the justice that they deserve?I am happy to make that commitment.

0:22:39 > 0:22:43The work continues each day in my department and across government

0:22:43 > 0:22:47with the ministerial group that has been set up to help the survivors of

0:22:47 > 0:22:50the Grenfell disaster. I am happy to reemphasise that commitment to my

0:22:50 > 0:22:56honourable friend.

0:22:56 > 0:23:00And I know the Minister to be a very good communicator. I felt very good

0:23:00 > 0:23:04at keeping the House informed. Any criticism I now make, please bear

0:23:04 > 0:23:09that in mind. But I do find that the guidance he has given on a couple of

0:23:09 > 0:23:15questions I have asked, I just don't understand them. The fact is many

0:23:15 > 0:23:18thousands of people in our country have a black cloud hanging over

0:23:18 > 0:23:23them. They may be a leaseholder, they may be a freeholder, but they

0:23:23 > 0:23:26can't get out of their minds because they don't how much they are going

0:23:26 > 0:23:30to be responsible for, and I have begged him to say get these three

0:23:30 > 0:23:34together. The Government should put something in because they have

0:23:34 > 0:23:42changed the standard. Let's get this sorted, please.With respect to the

0:23:42 > 0:23:44honourable gentleman, this issue around leaseholders and what can and

0:23:44 > 0:23:51cannot be done, it is fast changing. He may know that there was a legal

0:23:51 > 0:23:55case waiting to be hurt, which are making to conclusion a couple of

0:23:55 > 0:23:59days ago. As I said earlier, we are studying that outcome. But on the

0:23:59 > 0:24:03point he has made about getting people together, one thing we are in

0:24:03 > 0:24:08the process of setting up as a Round Table, with a number of interested

0:24:08 > 0:24:09parties, including those representing leaseholders, which I

0:24:09 > 0:24:15think will help.I commend my right honourable friend forcefully

0:24:15 > 0:24:19updating the House. Many citizens are deeply concerned about fire

0:24:19 > 0:24:27risk, and I am afraid about Government of any colour. Could my

0:24:27 > 0:24:31honourable friend please remind the House that the strength of the panel

0:24:31 > 0:24:38he has advising him?I am happy to do that. The expert panel I refer to

0:24:38 > 0:24:42as chaired by the former London Fire Commissioner and also the

0:24:42 > 0:24:47Government's former Chief Fire and rescue adviser. Also on the panel is

0:24:47 > 0:24:51the chief executive of the building research Establishment, the chair of

0:24:51 > 0:25:00the national Fire Chiefs Council, and the global director of a leading

0:25:00 > 0:25:05construction company and also under construction leadership Council.The

0:25:05 > 0:25:12expert panel 's recommendation that no change in safety advice is

0:25:12 > 0:25:19necessary will come as a surprise to many people, so will the Government

0:25:19 > 0:25:24insist that Damon Judith Hackett's review into the fire regulation

0:25:24 > 0:25:27assessments will make sure that every high-rise building's

0:25:27 > 0:25:32assessment will be published and made of the Oval in an accessibility

0:25:32 > 0:25:36form for the public, so that they can get perhaps the reassurance from

0:25:36 > 0:25:43that that I fear they want have got from this report? -- want have got.

0:25:43 > 0:25:48-- will not have got.I hope the public will be very reassured by the

0:25:48 > 0:25:54advice of the expert panel, not just because of the expertise that

0:25:54 > 0:25:57presented on that panel, but also, this is worth emphasising this, the

0:25:57 > 0:26:04fact that they are working closely with the National Fire Chief

0:26:04 > 0:26:07Counsel, the Metropolitan Police and the Government scientific officers.

0:26:07 > 0:26:12I hope that gives more confidence to the public and the honourable lady.

0:26:12 > 0:26:24. May I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. It is absolutely

0:26:24 > 0:26:29vital that the victims of the Grenfell Tower tragedy gets justice.

0:26:29 > 0:26:32Does my honourable friend agree that the only way to do this is to let

0:26:32 > 0:26:39the police and the end independent enquiry get on with their jobs?All

0:26:39 > 0:26:45in this House want to see justice received for the victims of the

0:26:45 > 0:26:54Grenfell Tower did it. That is why there is an ongoing police

0:26:54 > 0:27:00investigation. -- Grenfell Tower tragedy. The investigation has the

0:27:00 > 0:27:05full support of the Government.I do not find the Secretary of State's

0:27:05 > 0:27:09statement reassuring. Nine months on, he has come to the House to say

0:27:09 > 0:27:12we have just discovered the fire doors were defective, and only

0:27:12 > 0:27:17lasted 15 minutes in the case of a fire, not 30 minutes. My

0:27:17 > 0:27:21constituents were told to stay put on the basis that those doors give

0:27:21 > 0:27:27the Fire Service time to come and rescue people in tower blocks. He

0:27:27 > 0:27:34says that this is not a systemic problem, but what does that mean?

0:27:34 > 0:27:37Were these defective doors fitted knowing that will lasted 15 minutes?

0:27:37 > 0:27:44Is the to blame? How widespread is this? Is the manufacturer to blame?

0:27:44 > 0:27:50Can we have another Secretary of State to update as with the real

0:27:50 > 0:27:57facts of what the situation is? First I would say to the honourable

0:27:57 > 0:28:04gentleman, there is a life police investigation going on. He should

0:28:04 > 0:28:07appreciate that it is an independent investigation, a criminal

0:28:07 > 0:28:11investigation taking place by the police, and it would not be

0:28:11 > 0:28:16appropriate for me to talk about certain things publicly unless the

0:28:16 > 0:28:19honourable gentleman is suggesting we should jeopardise a life police

0:28:19 > 0:28:25investigation. He is rightly asking me about the investigation itself.

0:28:25 > 0:28:28I'm happy to give him more information. Not the police

0:28:28 > 0:28:33investigation, but the work now being led by the expert panel. There

0:28:33 > 0:28:37is a documentary investigation into the fire doors which is being led by

0:28:37 > 0:28:44the police to see where these fire doors, if it is a whole set of

0:28:44 > 0:28:48doors, or a batch of doors, where they might be in the country. There

0:28:48 > 0:28:53is a fire testing investigation being led by my department testing

0:28:53 > 0:28:57after doors to see how widespread the problem may be. There is also a

0:28:57 > 0:29:01visual inspection and declassification investigation going

0:29:01 > 0:29:03on into the materials. I hope the honourable gentleman appreciates

0:29:03 > 0:29:08there is a lot of work to do, and it is right that we do this thoroughly

0:29:08 > 0:29:15and take the time to get it right.I thank the Secretary of State for

0:29:15 > 0:29:18providing the assurances he has done, which will be gratefully

0:29:18 > 0:29:23received by my constituents. As you will know, being my neighbouring MP,

0:29:23 > 0:29:27he will know that the people of Worcestershire have been deeply

0:29:27 > 0:29:30touched by this tragedy. It has affected people up and down the

0:29:30 > 0:29:35country. Can you please give assurances, are there any actions

0:29:35 > 0:29:39that my local council meets today in light of these latest findings? --

0:29:39 > 0:29:48needs to take.Immediately, soon after this terrible tragedy, my

0:29:48 > 0:29:53department conducted every council in the country, and informed them of

0:29:53 > 0:29:56what we knew at the time, and also any immediate measures that we must

0:29:56 > 0:30:02take. Since that time, councils have been kept updated as we learn more

0:30:02 > 0:30:03information, including the information we have talked about

0:30:03 > 0:30:16today.Leaseholders in Liverpool are already facing bills of £18,000 each

0:30:16 > 0:30:19for the replacement cladding, and who knows what this new announcement

0:30:19 > 0:30:23might mean for them and other people around the country. The original

0:30:23 > 0:30:31development company was dissolved four years ago. The current owner is

0:30:31 > 0:30:35based in Guernsey. It is still not known whether an insurance policy

0:30:35 > 0:30:40apparently taken out by the original developers will raise any funds are

0:30:40 > 0:30:44told to meet these costs. Leaseholders are told they will get

0:30:44 > 0:30:48an answer, but they have not won yet. The Secretary of State keeps

0:30:48 > 0:30:50expressing some kind of sympathy for leaseholders caught in this

0:30:50 > 0:30:55situation, but what else can he do to help my constituents in

0:30:55 > 0:31:01Liverpool?I think what the honourable lady has highlighted as

0:31:01 > 0:31:06the complexity of some of these situations. I'm sure she appreciates

0:31:06 > 0:31:11that, but despite that, we must do as she suggests. Whatever can be

0:31:11 > 0:31:14done to help individuals concerned in these very difficult

0:31:14 > 0:31:19circumstances, that is why we are looking closely at the recent legal

0:31:19 > 0:31:22judgment. I believe it is the first time a tribunal has looked at that

0:31:22 > 0:31:28kind of case. That is why we have provided more funding for the

0:31:28 > 0:31:31leasehold advisory service so that leaseholders can get more instant

0:31:31 > 0:31:37support, and also we are looking at what more can be done and keeping

0:31:37 > 0:31:48the situation in review.I had the privilege to complete the two Europe

0:31:48 > 0:31:52Parliamentary fire safety scheme. I have had a small introduction to the

0:31:52 > 0:31:57horrors of fire and the bravery displayed by our firefighters every

0:31:57 > 0:32:04day. In that regard, fire doors are absolutely crucial. What surprises

0:32:04 > 0:32:08me about this enquiry is, who certifies that these doors are meant

0:32:08 > 0:32:16to last 30 minutes? -- what puzzles me. If it has been demonstrated that

0:32:16 > 0:32:20those last half that time, for those behind those doors, 15 minutes may

0:32:20 > 0:32:27not seem very long to ours now, but for people can see fire through the

0:32:27 > 0:32:33glass, it is crucial. Some question is, who certifies 30 minutes?My

0:32:33 > 0:32:35honourable friend speaks with some experience, and he is absolutely

0:32:35 > 0:32:41right to ask that question. The answer is, the door in question in

0:32:41 > 0:32:45this case, because it is a 30 minute resistance, or that is what it

0:32:45 > 0:33:01should have been, the standard in Britain must be tested against. Each

0:33:01 > 0:33:08of those testing centres must be accredited by the UK accreditation

0:33:08 > 0:33:15service. I don't want to make any judgments on what happened in this

0:33:15 > 0:33:20case, because as I said, it is the subject of a life police

0:33:20 > 0:33:23investigation. The police say they are getting full cooperation from

0:33:23 > 0:33:29the manufacturer. I want to reassure my honourable friend but, first of

0:33:29 > 0:33:32all, the police are clearly doing their work with that particular door

0:33:32 > 0:33:36and doors of that type, and we are doing the much wider testing this is

0:33:36 > 0:33:42necessary.Last night, one of my parliamentary staff went on the

0:33:42 > 0:33:46Grenfell Tower March, and talked to some after which has been running in

0:33:46 > 0:33:49a hotel room for nine months. Despite the Government's promised to

0:33:49 > 0:33:59rehouse these people, nine months later, the figures show that 60 of

0:33:59 > 0:34:01208 households are permanent homes. I would like to know, with the

0:34:01 > 0:34:05Secretary of State advice on what was in the House when the Government

0:34:05 > 0:34:08will properly rehouse these people? Some sort of a timescale, because we

0:34:08 > 0:34:12are hearing reassuring noises, but these people are saying they are not

0:34:12 > 0:34:17seen the action on the ground. Will these people be rehoused in the

0:34:17 > 0:34:21summer, autumn, Christmas, can we have a timescale please?I'm happy

0:34:21 > 0:34:29to update the honourable lady. There were 151 homes lost to the fire, but

0:34:29 > 0:34:34209 households to find new homes for. I think she knows why the

0:34:34 > 0:34:38number might be higher. So far, 184 have moved out of the emergency

0:34:38 > 0:34:42accommodation into either temporary or permanent accommodation. That

0:34:42 > 0:34:49leaves 25 households that have still not accepted temporary or permanent

0:34:49 > 0:34:52accommodation. I hope the honourable lady can appreciate that whilst it

0:34:52 > 0:34:56is absolutely right that we work at pace and help those families to move

0:34:56 > 0:35:00into permanent or temporary accommodation as they choose as

0:35:00 > 0:35:02quickly as possible, and by the way they are now over 300 homes

0:35:02 > 0:35:07available on the lettering system, more than are required, but no

0:35:07 > 0:35:13family can be pushed and told that they must make a decision and that

0:35:13 > 0:35:18they have no choice. It must be done at their pace. I cannot go into the

0:35:18 > 0:35:22details, but the 25 households that are yet to accept temporary or

0:35:22 > 0:35:26permanent accommodation, there are quite contemplated factors some of

0:35:26 > 0:35:32them. It would be inappropriate from what I know to make those families

0:35:32 > 0:35:40to make a decision if they are not ready.I very recently, and continue

0:35:40 > 0:35:42to be, dealing with concerns regarding the construction of a

0:35:42 > 0:35:48tower block in my constituency. The concerns are that the cladding meets

0:35:48 > 0:35:51the building regulations, but it is not fire safe. So when it has been

0:35:51 > 0:35:59tested, it is deemed not to be fire safe. When are we going to get

0:35:59 > 0:36:02around to sorting out the building regulations to make sure all about

0:36:02 > 0:36:07our blocks are safe, and that the body can feel safe in their homes?

0:36:07 > 0:36:13-- everybody can feel safe.I'm not aware of the particular tower block,

0:36:13 > 0:36:19but the honourable lady wants to give me more on it, I and happy to

0:36:19 > 0:36:25take a closer look. I'm not aware of any case where the cladding has

0:36:25 > 0:36:30passed building regulation tests but the tower block is not deemed safe.

0:36:30 > 0:36:32In every case that I have referred to other, the number of buildings

0:36:32 > 0:36:37that need the cladding removed, it is our view that none of that

0:36:37 > 0:36:41cladding meets building regulations. That is exactly why it needs to be

0:36:41 > 0:36:52moved.The Secretary of State is well aware of the messy and as yet

0:36:52 > 0:36:56unsolved situation with leaseholders in Greenwich. Last week, the

0:36:56 > 0:36:59community found out about another development in Greenwich that has

0:36:59 > 0:37:02dangerous cladding on some of the towers. I do not intend to go into

0:37:02 > 0:37:08the details, but my question to the Secretary of State is this. How on

0:37:08 > 0:37:11earth, nine months on, can we still be finding out about additional

0:37:11 > 0:37:16freehold developments that have lethal material around some of the

0:37:16 > 0:37:23blocks on?In August last year, I wrote to every single local

0:37:23 > 0:37:29authority and asked them to carry out the work of finding all the

0:37:29 > 0:37:32local private sector buildings in the area and providing support for

0:37:32 > 0:37:38them. In fact, we just give additional funding to with that. Any

0:37:38 > 0:37:41of them have taken with the right urgency, and working at pace. --

0:37:41 > 0:37:46many of them. Some of them are still discovering buildings because partly

0:37:46 > 0:37:50it requires the cooperation of the private sector. We have spoken to

0:37:50 > 0:37:53many private sector institutions, and I think it would be wrong to

0:37:53 > 0:37:57blame local authorities for this. It is right that we work with them and

0:37:57 > 0:38:05give them only support what is necessary to find these buildings.

0:38:05 > 0:38:08After Grenfell, the three bar MPs were to the Secretary of State

0:38:08 > 0:38:11asking for help to retrofit sprinklers in more than 170 tower

0:38:11 > 0:38:17blocks in the borough. That was a clear request for financial support.

0:38:17 > 0:38:21It is simply disingenuous to claim no request has been turned down. The

0:38:21 > 0:38:24department dismissively said it would assess the council's means of

0:38:24 > 0:38:30doing the works itself. Nine months on, how is that assessment coming

0:38:30 > 0:38:33along? Has it been designed? When will it be published and when Will

0:38:33 > 0:38:41Southwark Council be given the resources to complete the works?We

0:38:41 > 0:38:44have made it clear that all local authorities including Southwark

0:38:44 > 0:38:46Council shall determine for themselves what work is required for

0:38:46 > 0:38:53fire safety. That is the number one issue. And if they need financial

0:38:53 > 0:39:00flexibility to help pay for that, that will not be turned down. We

0:39:00 > 0:39:07have more than 40 local authorities that we are in discussion with.

0:39:07 > 0:39:10There is not one local authority that has wanted to discuss this

0:39:10 > 0:39:14where we have turned out that discussion. We want to give them the

0:39:14 > 0:39:18financial flexibility they need.As a west London near neighbour,

0:39:18 > 0:39:21residents in the London borough of Ealing can see Grenfell, the charred

0:39:21 > 0:39:27coffin in the sky was bypassed by it yesterday and my constituent John

0:39:27 > 0:39:30Metcalfe was at the silent march last night. He says that there were

0:39:30 > 0:39:34massive numbers and the sense of injustice was overwhelming. The

0:39:34 > 0:39:37minister has repeatedly said public safety is paramount. What is he

0:39:37 > 0:39:41doing to instil public confidence into the inquiry and the aftermath?

0:39:41 > 0:39:48Identikit was ever there. -- I don't think it was that.The honourable

0:39:48 > 0:39:52lady is right to raise the issue of building more public confidence with

0:39:52 > 0:39:58the local community, not just the former residence of Grenfell Tower,

0:39:58 > 0:40:03but the immediate community. Much work has been done both by the

0:40:03 > 0:40:07Council, as well as residents themselves, with government support,

0:40:07 > 0:40:13for example the group that has been set up by the victims of the

0:40:13 > 0:40:15tragedy, Grenfell United. We have worked with them and given them

0:40:15 > 0:40:19support and we will continue to do that. But I think she will

0:40:19 > 0:40:23appreciate it may take years to build the right level of confidence.

0:40:23 > 0:40:27Part of that process is also making sure the community is listened to at

0:40:27 > 0:40:31every step of the way and they are treated respectfully. For example,

0:40:31 > 0:40:36the news that I have shared with the house today, I determined it was a

0:40:36 > 0:40:39very important that the bereaved were told last night in advance of

0:40:39 > 0:40:44them not hearing at first in Parliament. That is the way we

0:40:44 > 0:40:49continue to work with the community and help in every way we can.I

0:40:49 > 0:40:54would like to say about the Secretary of State's commence on

0:40:54 > 0:41:00housing survivors do not equate with my experience. We have many

0:41:00 > 0:41:03households still waiting for any kind of offer that is suitable for

0:41:03 > 0:41:09them. But my question goes back to the fire door situation. I had a

0:41:09 > 0:41:14message this morning from an elderly architect friend of mine. He was

0:41:14 > 0:41:18active and worked as part of the team on the Grenfell Tower and

0:41:18 > 0:41:25estate. From his experience, the architects of the time were

0:41:25 > 0:41:29specifying fire doors of one hour. Architects knew what they were doing

0:41:29 > 0:41:33in those days and they designed the building and signed off at the end

0:41:33 > 0:41:39of it. They were responsible from beginning to end. In the 1970s, fire

0:41:39 > 0:41:43doors were supposed to last for one hour. What are now down to 30

0:41:43 > 0:41:48minutes. Can we please reconsider whether or not, in buildings of that

0:41:48 > 0:41:58size, half an hour is enough?First of all, let me reiterate the latest

0:41:58 > 0:42:07figures I have of the 209 households from Grenfell Tower that need to be

0:42:07 > 0:42:11rehoused. 184 have accepted offers of temporary or permanent

0:42:11 > 0:42:16accommodation. It leaves 25 that have not accepted either offer us

0:42:16 > 0:42:20back. There are now over 300 units available of different sizes and

0:42:20 > 0:42:25types in different locations, and the family liaison officers and key

0:42:25 > 0:42:31workers are working with each family. As I said earlier, we will

0:42:31 > 0:42:34not rush this. It will be done at the pace that the survivors want.

0:42:34 > 0:42:38She asked me about the fire doors and whether one hour is correct

0:42:38 > 0:42:44versus half an hour. This is exactly one of the reasons why I have set up

0:42:44 > 0:42:49the independent building regulation fire safety inquiry, the work being

0:42:49 > 0:42:53done by Dame Judith Hackitt. I know this is an issue she will be looking

0:42:53 > 0:43:00at.We now, to a ministerial statement. It is on the Burma

0:43:00 > 0:43:11update. Minister of State. Mark Field.Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you

0:43:11 > 0:43:16for the opportunity to update the House on the desperate plight of

0:43:16 > 0:43:20Burma's Rohingya. In the week that the UN fact-finding mission on Burma

0:43:20 > 0:43:22has reported the human rights Council with its interim findings.

0:43:22 > 0:43:26The insert the community has repeatedly called upon the Burmese

0:43:26 > 0:43:32authorities to allow that fact-finding mission to enter Burma.

0:43:32 > 0:43:37Regrettably, Burma continues to refuse access. Despite this, through

0:43:37 > 0:43:41interviewing Rohingya refugees in both Bangladesh and Malaysia, the

0:43:41 > 0:43:44interim report revealed credible evidence of widespread and

0:43:44 > 0:43:49systematic abuse, rape and murder of Rohingya people and the destruction

0:43:49 > 0:43:54of their homes and villages, primarily by the Burmese military.

0:43:54 > 0:44:03This is not only a human tragedy, it is a humanitarian catastrophe. Since

0:44:03 > 0:44:07August 2017, nearly 680,000 Rohingya refugees have sought shelter in

0:44:07 > 0:44:12Bangladesh. There have been some suggestions, including by the

0:44:12 > 0:44:15Foreign Affairs Committee, that the UK failed to see this crisis coming.

0:44:15 > 0:44:24With respect, I disagree. Let us be clear what led to this situation.

0:44:24 > 0:44:26The Rohingya have suffered persecution in Rakhine for decades.

0:44:26 > 0:44:33Such rights as they have had have been progressively diminished under

0:44:33 > 0:44:37successive military governments. They have been victims of systematic

0:44:37 > 0:44:44violence before, most recently in 2012 and late in 2016. On these more

0:44:44 > 0:44:48recent occasions, Rohingya fled their homes, some to internally

0:44:48 > 0:44:52displaced persons camps elsewhere in Rakhine, some to other nations over

0:44:52 > 0:44:57land or sea. So the outbreak of vicious hostility these past six

0:44:57 > 0:45:03months is only the latest episode in a long-lasting cycle of violence. We

0:45:03 > 0:45:06have been urging the Burmese civilian government to take action

0:45:06 > 0:45:09to stop that situation deteriorating since it came into power two years

0:45:09 > 0:45:15ago. What was unprecedented and unforeseen about this most recent

0:45:15 > 0:45:20violence was its scale and intensity. A recent report by the

0:45:20 > 0:45:24international crisis group rightly noted that there can be no military

0:45:24 > 0:45:34solution alone. The August the 25th attack by the Salvation Army

0:45:34 > 0:45:36militants from Burmese security forces was clearly an unacceptable

0:45:36 > 0:45:42and deliberate provocation, but the Burmese military's relentless

0:45:42 > 0:45:46response since has been utterly appalling and entirely inexcusable.

0:45:46 > 0:45:49Its operations only last week on the Burma border with Bangladesh were

0:45:49 > 0:45:54supposedly directed against another wave of militants. Whether or not

0:45:54 > 0:45:59that explanation is to be believed, the impact of the Burmese military's

0:45:59 > 0:46:03actions was to terrorise thousands of Rohingya living in the area and

0:46:03 > 0:46:10to encourage ever more civilians to cross over into Bangladesh. I once

0:46:10 > 0:46:12again commend the generosity of the government and people of Bangladesh

0:46:12 > 0:46:16for opening their doors to these desperate refugees. The UK remains

0:46:16 > 0:46:20one of the largest bilateral aid donors to the crisis. We have

0:46:20 > 0:46:27committed some £59 million in the past six months to help ensure the

0:46:27 > 0:46:31refugees' well-being. This includes 5 million of matched funding for the

0:46:31 > 0:46:34generous public donations from British citizens to the Disasters

0:46:34 > 0:46:39Emergency Committee appeal. My right honourable friend, the International

0:46:39 > 0:46:41Development Secretary, visited Bangladesh last November and

0:46:41 > 0:46:46announced the latest UK package of support including four survivors of

0:46:46 > 0:46:52sexual and other violence. We anticipate the multi-agency plan for

0:46:52 > 0:46:55the next phase of humanitarian support from March till the end of

0:46:55 > 0:46:58the year to be published imminently. As the International Development

0:46:58 > 0:47:02Secretary herself has confirmed during her Bangladesh visit, the UK

0:47:02 > 0:47:08remains and will remain committed to the Rohingya now and, I suspect, for

0:47:08 > 0:47:13many years to come. At the end of last year, the UK Government

0:47:13 > 0:47:15deployed British doctors, nurses and firefighters from our emergency

0:47:15 > 0:47:20medical teams to Bangladesh to tackle an outbreak of deadly

0:47:20 > 0:47:26diphtheria in the refugee camps. In northern Rakhine, where humanitarian

0:47:26 > 0:47:33access remains restricted, the UK is providing £2 million support via the

0:47:33 > 0:47:37World Food Programme and a further million via the Red Cross, one of

0:47:37 > 0:47:41the few international organisations that has access to that part of

0:47:41 > 0:47:46Burma. We stand ready to do more as soon as we are permitted full

0:47:46 > 0:47:49access. We continue to work in cooperation with international

0:47:49 > 0:47:55partners to find a solution to this crisis, focusing international

0:47:55 > 0:47:58pressure on the Burmese authorities and security forces. At the UN

0:47:58 > 0:48:03Security Council, the UK has since the final week of August repeatedly

0:48:03 > 0:48:08raised this crisis as an issue for debate, most recently on the 13th of

0:48:08 > 0:48:12February this year. The existence of the UN fact-finding mission is in no

0:48:12 > 0:48:18small part due to British diplomacy, and I have personally engaged and

0:48:18 > 0:48:21will continue to do so with its members. Last November, the UK was

0:48:21 > 0:48:25instrumental in securing the first UN Security Council presidential

0:48:25 > 0:48:29statement on Burma for a decade, which delivered a clear message that

0:48:29 > 0:48:34the Burmese authorities should protect all civilians within Burma,

0:48:34 > 0:48:37create the conditions for refugees to return and to allow for

0:48:37 > 0:48:41humanitarian access in Rakhine state. Late last month, I was

0:48:41 > 0:48:47privileged to attend the EU foreign affairs Council in Brussels, where a

0:48:47 > 0:48:49programme of sanctions against senior Burmese military figures was

0:48:49 > 0:48:55outlined. This was approved unanimously and we hope to bring

0:48:55 > 0:49:00this work soon to the attention of the UN Security Council. Many

0:49:00 > 0:49:04honourable members in this House remained committed to helping

0:49:04 > 0:49:08resolve the appalling situation faced by the Rohingya community and

0:49:08 > 0:49:12I welcome that continued engagement. I visited both countries myself in

0:49:12 > 0:49:17September and returned to Burma in November. During these visits, I met

0:49:17 > 0:49:20displaced Rohingya, but also Hindu and Buddhist communities in Rakhine

0:49:20 > 0:49:23and heard harrowing accounts of human rights violations and abuses.

0:49:23 > 0:49:29It was clear that these communities remain deeply divided and there is a

0:49:29 > 0:49:35palpable sense of mutual fear and distrust. I also met State

0:49:35 > 0:49:38Counsellor & Sukhi, the Ministry of Defence and the deputy Foreign

0:49:38 > 0:49:43Minister to reiterate the need to take action to end the violence and

0:49:43 > 0:49:49to allow a path towards the safe return of the refugees. During his

0:49:49 > 0:49:54visit to Burma last month, my Rthe Foreign Secretary also pressed in a

0:49:54 > 0:49:57personal meeting with Aung San Suu Kyi that the necessary steps be

0:49:57 > 0:50:01taken to create the conditions conducive for the return of

0:50:01 > 0:50:08refugees. He flew over Rakhine and saw for himself the scale of the

0:50:08 > 0:50:11destruction of land and property that has taken place. He also

0:50:11 > 0:50:15visited Bangladesh, where he met Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina and

0:50:15 > 0:50:18Foreign Minister Ali and visited the camps in Cox's Bazar, hearing

0:50:18 > 0:50:21distressing accounts from survivors as well as their heartfelt hopes for

0:50:21 > 0:50:29a better future and their desire to return safely to Burma. I think our

0:50:29 > 0:50:33visits have reinforced our determination to help resolve this

0:50:33 > 0:50:37appalling crisis. I recognise that this House remains committed to

0:50:37 > 0:50:41ensuring that the human rights of refugees across the world and

0:50:41 > 0:50:43particularly of the Rohingya are protected and we welcome the

0:50:43 > 0:50:53resolution of the House as recently as the 24th of January 20 -- 2080.

0:50:53 > 0:50:58We believe there are four priorities. First, we must continue

0:50:58 > 0:51:02to address humanitarian needs, especially the needs of victims of

0:51:02 > 0:51:06sexual violence in both northern Rakhine and in Bangladesh. This

0:51:06 > 0:51:14includes assisting the humanitarian agencies working in the vicinity of

0:51:14 > 0:51:17Cox's Bazar to help prepare for the approaching monsoon and cyclone

0:51:17 > 0:51:21season, which commences potentially in a matter of weeks. We shall

0:51:21 > 0:51:25continue to work with international humanitarian agencies delivering aid

0:51:25 > 0:51:27in Rakhine state and to support Baghdad addition in its efforts to

0:51:27 > 0:51:31help those fleeing the violence. Secondly, we must continue the

0:51:31 > 0:51:38patient work towards achieving a safe, voluntary and dignified return

0:51:38 > 0:51:43of refugees. We shall press for the UNHCR to oversee this process and

0:51:43 > 0:51:49ensure full verification of any returns on both sides of the border.

0:51:49 > 0:51:57As the globally mandated body, the UNHCR remains best equipped to

0:51:57 > 0:52:03oversee this process. Thirdly, we must continue international progress

0:52:03 > 0:52:06towards bringing to justice the perpetrators of human rights

0:52:06 > 0:52:11violence including sexual violence in Rakhine. The international

0:52:11 > 0:52:14community has agreed to make the case to the Burmese authorities for

0:52:14 > 0:52:22a credible, transparent inquiry, and United into national pressure is

0:52:22 > 0:52:27essential to achieve this aim. The UN fact-finding mission is just the

0:52:27 > 0:52:30first, but an important step in what is likely to be a long road ahead.

0:52:30 > 0:52:37It produced its interim report on Monday, reflecting the violent

0:52:37 > 0:52:43military led actions against the Rohingya and other minorities in

0:52:43 > 0:52:47Burma. We shall continue to support its important work, including urging

0:52:47 > 0:52:51Burma to allow the mission and restricted access. We shall also

0:52:51 > 0:52:54continue to provide support to build the capacity of the Bangladesh

0:52:54 > 0:53:01national human rights commission to properly investigate and document

0:53:01 > 0:53:06sexual violence amongst Rohingya refugees. As Canada's special envoy

0:53:06 > 0:53:10to Burma has said, and I saw him at the Foreign Office a few weeks ago,

0:53:10 > 0:53:14those responsible for breaches of international law and crimes against

0:53:14 > 0:53:19humanity must be brought to justice. This applies, in my view, to all

0:53:19 > 0:53:22involved, state and non-state actors, senior military personnel

0:53:22 > 0:53:31and all individuals in authority.

0:53:31 > 0:53:34The UN special reporter for human rights in Burma recently stated in

0:53:34 > 0:53:39the conflict has all the hallmarks of genocide. However I must tell the

0:53:39 > 0:53:44House that the only path to prosecution for genocide or crimes

0:53:44 > 0:53:48against humanity is via the International Criminal Court, it is

0:53:48 > 0:53:53a legal process. Burma is not a party to the Rome Statute and must

0:53:53 > 0:53:56either prefer itself to the court or be referred by the UN Security

0:53:56 > 0:54:02Council. Neither eventuality is likely I fear in the short term.

0:54:02 > 0:54:07That should not stop us from supporting those who are continuing

0:54:07 > 0:54:13to collate and collect evidence for use in such a future prosecution.

0:54:13 > 0:54:17Finally, to achieve a long-term resolution to the crisis in Burma, I

0:54:17 > 0:54:21believe that even in these desperate circumstances, the UK should play a

0:54:21 > 0:54:27leading role in trying to support democratic transition and the

0:54:27 > 0:54:31promotion of freedom, tolerance and diversity. We will continue to

0:54:31 > 0:54:34engage attempts to peacefully resolve many of Burma's on internal

0:54:34 > 0:54:39conflicts and to bring all parts of the state apparatus under democratic

0:54:39 > 0:54:43civilian control. We stand ready to lead the international community in

0:54:43 > 0:54:47ensuring implementation of Kofi Anand's recliner advisory committee

0:54:47 > 0:54:53report. This is designed to deliver the relevant for the people of Kainz

0:54:53 > 0:54:56date including the Rohingya and address the underlying causes of the

0:54:56 > 0:55:00crisis. --

0:55:04 > 0:55:11making progress on ensuring citizenship for the Rohingya who are

0:55:11 > 0:55:14otherwise regarded by many as stateless and giving confidence that

0:55:14 > 0:55:20they have a future as fully fledged citizens of Burma. Furthermore the

0:55:20 > 0:55:24situation in Burma serves as the clearest possible example of why our

0:55:24 > 0:55:27government will continue to uphold its commitments to early warning and

0:55:27 > 0:55:33preventing the risk of atrocity crimes. In the context of broader

0:55:33 > 0:55:37conflict protection and peace building work. The lessons from this

0:55:37 > 0:55:40human tragedy must be used to prevent similar situations

0:55:40 > 0:55:45developing in the future and I stand ready to work with members across

0:55:45 > 0:55:50the House and NGOs with a real passion in this area to get a

0:55:50 > 0:55:55framework in place for the feature. The UK Government intends to remain

0:55:55 > 0:55:59the vanguard of international action to support a full range of

0:55:59 > 0:56:02humanitarian, political and diplomatic efforts to help resolve

0:56:02 > 0:56:06this appalling situation. We shall continue to press Burma to

0:56:06 > 0:56:08facilitate safe, voluntary and dignified return to the winger

0:56:08 > 0:56:16Muslims under the oversight and properly, fully to address the

0:56:16 > 0:56:20underlying causes of this violence. -- Rohingya Muslims. We must not

0:56:20 > 0:56:24lose sight of the fact that the Rohingya community have suffered for

0:56:24 > 0:56:27generations and will need continued support to live their lives they

0:56:27 > 0:56:31choose. Nor will we fail to take account of the wider picture in

0:56:31 > 0:56:34Burma and the potential that sustained motion has towards an

0:56:34 > 0:56:39open, democratic society with the opportunities it would offer all its

0:56:39 > 0:56:44people. We shall push forward with persistence, focus and energy. It is

0:56:44 > 0:56:56our international and our moral duty to do so.Let me thank the Minister

0:56:56 > 0:57:03for that clear and comprehensive update of the situation of the

0:57:03 > 0:57:10Rohingya and for giving me a advance sight of his statement no one can

0:57:10 > 0:57:15doubt the effort and commitment that he and his officials personally and

0:57:15 > 0:57:19any Foreign Office and on the ground are putting into resolving this

0:57:19 > 0:57:25issue. Can I welcome several specific aspects of his update?

0:57:25 > 0:57:28First, the interim report of the UN fact-finding mission which both in

0:57:28 > 0:57:33its level of detail about the atrocities suffered by the Rohingya

0:57:33 > 0:57:38and the unflinching language it uses to describe those genocidal acts is

0:57:38 > 0:57:45it vital first step in building a case against the individuals

0:57:45 > 0:57:52responsible. Second, I welcome the public 's generosity and the

0:57:52 > 0:57:55government 's continued commitment to providing humanitarian relief to

0:57:55 > 0:58:05the Rohingya refugees trapped. I applaud the tireless work of British

0:58:05 > 0:58:07medical professionals seeking to stop the spread of disease in the

0:58:07 > 0:58:16camps. Third, I welcome the Minister of State's words concerning the role

0:58:16 > 0:58:20of UNHCR in ensuring the safe, dignified and voluntary return and

0:58:20 > 0:58:26sustainable future for those refugees, and the pressure the

0:58:26 > 0:58:30international community must continue to put on the government of

0:58:30 > 0:58:35Myanmar, to allow the UNHCR to dictate when and how it will be

0:58:35 > 0:58:42appropriate to begin that repatriation process. I welcome the

0:58:42 > 0:58:46Minister of State 's continued support for the Kofi Anand reports

0:58:46 > 0:58:50and invite all, long-term reforms set out in that report to give full

0:58:50 > 0:58:53rights and lasting protection duty wrecking the community in Myanmar.

0:58:53 > 0:58:59We all know the Democratic and civil society development have not

0:58:59 > 0:59:05improved as we had hoped two years ago. Only this week I was hearing

0:59:05 > 0:59:12about 100,000 displaced people in another state as well. Fifth, I

0:59:12 > 0:59:16would like to welcome the progress he mentioned in terms of agreeing EU

0:59:16 > 0:59:22wide sanctions against leading Myanmar generals. Only two weeks

0:59:22 > 0:59:27ago, Foreign Office ministers were avoiding a debate and then voting

0:59:27 > 0:59:30down our amendments, so I was pleased that the Prime Minister

0:59:30 > 0:59:36expressed a change of heart yesterday, not least because we

0:59:36 > 0:59:41noticed that the United States had used these magnets keep provisions

0:59:41 > 0:59:50in order to sanction one of the generals. Can I also ask the

0:59:50 > 0:59:57Ministry of State if you specific questions? First, he talked about

0:59:57 > 1:00:01the importance of providing support for victims of sexual violence and

1:00:01 > 1:00:06documenting the abuse they have suffered with a view to bringing

1:00:06 > 1:00:10prosecutions at some future date against those responsible. But he

1:00:10 > 1:00:16will know that it is a concern across the House that when we last

1:00:16 > 1:00:21received an update on Myanmar, it was confirmed that only two of the

1:00:21 > 1:00:2770 sexual violence experts employed as part of the governments of ending

1:00:27 > 1:00:34sexual violence initiative in 2012 have been deployed, had been

1:00:34 > 1:00:41deployed, to work on these cases. Can I ask the Minister of states,

1:00:41 > 1:00:47have more of those staff now been deployed to the refugee camps? Are

1:00:47 > 1:00:51the two experts still there? What are the numbers of people now

1:00:51 > 1:00:56working to support victims and document their evidence. What

1:00:56 > 1:01:00percentage of the victims of sexual violence does he estimate have now

1:01:00 > 1:01:07received support and have their cases documented, whether by UK

1:01:07 > 1:01:12experts or other agencies working on this issue. Secondly, he noted the

1:01:12 > 1:01:18impending monsoon season, and we are all aware of the risk those heavy

1:01:18 > 1:01:23rains could turn the existing humanitarian crisis in the refugee

1:01:23 > 1:01:27camps into something even more catastrophic. Especially in terms of

1:01:27 > 1:01:33the spread of waterborne disease. So, can I ask the Ministry of State

1:01:33 > 1:01:43what assessment he is and his officials have made, both in the

1:01:43 > 1:01:46shortfall in funding to support refugees and the expected shortfall

1:01:46 > 1:01:51if the monsoon season makes the crisis worse? If those numbers are

1:01:51 > 1:01:57as high as many of us fear, what emergency action is the government

1:01:57 > 1:02:01taking with our international partners to try and plug those gaps?

1:02:01 > 1:02:10Third and finally, we must return to the issue of how we can best ensure

1:02:10 > 1:02:17the safe, voluntary and we dignified repatriations -- dignified

1:02:17 > 1:02:21repatriation of Rohingya refugees and how we can ensure those

1:02:21 > 1:02:25responsible for the atrocities against them are brought to justice.

1:02:25 > 1:02:28On both issues, while I appreciate what the Minister has said about the

1:02:28 > 1:02:35pressure the UK has exerted behind the scenes at the UN, in terms of

1:02:35 > 1:02:42setting up the fact-finding mission and obtaining the Security Council

1:02:42 > 1:02:45presidential statement, he will understand the long-standing view on

1:02:45 > 1:02:49this side of the House that it is time to go further and be more

1:02:49 > 1:02:55public in using the UK's formal role as pen holder on Myanmar in the UN

1:02:55 > 1:03:02Security Council. To table resolutions on these vital issues.

1:03:02 > 1:03:07First, to table a resolution setting down the terms under which

1:03:07 > 1:03:11repatriation process should proceed, and the future rights and

1:03:11 > 1:03:16protections that must be accorded to the Rohingya refugees, and

1:03:16 > 1:03:22obligingly Myanmar authorities to exceed these terms. Secondly, at the

1:03:22 > 1:03:25appropriate time, to table a resolution referring Myanmar to the

1:03:25 > 1:03:32International Criminal Court, so that the generals who this week 's

1:03:32 > 1:03:36endlessly dismissed the UN's claims of ethnic cleansing and genocide and

1:03:36 > 1:03:40said instead that the Rohingya had burned down their own houses, so

1:03:40 > 1:03:46that they could be brought to account. The Minister of State spoke

1:03:46 > 1:03:49with candour on the second point, admitting that such a resolution

1:03:49 > 1:03:55would be difficult to get past the security council. I would like to

1:03:55 > 1:04:01ask him to expand on this issue. What steps has the government taken

1:04:01 > 1:04:05to engage with Myanmar's near neighbour, China, and did the Prime

1:04:05 > 1:04:12Minister raise this issue with the Chinese on her recent trip? Many of

1:04:12 > 1:04:17us fear that if we do not act quickly to break this stalemate,

1:04:17 > 1:04:20especially with the monsoon season coming, we will be having these

1:04:20 > 1:04:26types of updates for too many months to come, and the humanitarian crisis

1:04:26 > 1:04:34the Minister has described it will only get worse.Can I give a bit of

1:04:34 > 1:04:38advice to both benches? It's meant to be ten and five, I think one was

1:04:38 > 1:04:4216 and the other was seven, so in future if you could keep to that, I

1:04:42 > 1:04:45didn't want to stop because it's an important subject but just for the

1:04:45 > 1:04:51record.Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Speaker's office was

1:04:51 > 1:04:54made aware we wanted a slightly longer statement on this, I

1:04:54 > 1:05:03appreciate the kind words of the Honourable Lady. In support of

1:05:03 > 1:05:07broadly what we are trying to do, and I am keen we try as far as we

1:05:07 > 1:05:11can to work together and I appreciate inevitably these issues

1:05:11 > 1:05:15can be partisan as well but I think there is a way in which this House

1:05:15 > 1:05:19can expressed its strong views not least given our pen holder status.

1:05:19 > 1:05:23Let me touch on a view of the broader issues she mentioned. In

1:05:23 > 1:05:30relation to sexual violence, I will come back with some details about

1:05:30 > 1:05:34how many civilian experts we have on the ground and what their ongoing

1:05:34 > 1:05:39situation is and the work being done. We are confident that

1:05:39 > 1:05:44significant progress has been made, Rohingya women and children remained

1:05:44 > 1:05:50very vulnerable to gender-based violence and sexual exploitation. A

1:05:50 > 1:05:56range of organisations, even if they are not necessarily from the UK

1:05:56 > 1:06:00authorities, are working very closely with other organisations who

1:06:00 > 1:06:04have specialties in this field to provide that specialist help

1:06:04 > 1:06:09survivors of sexual violence. This includes some 30 child friendly

1:06:09 > 1:06:13spaces to support children with protective services and

1:06:13 > 1:06:16psychological and physiological support, 25 women's centres offering

1:06:16 > 1:06:23a safe space and support to the activities of women and girls, and a

1:06:23 > 1:06:28lot of case management for the 2190 survivors of sexual and gender based

1:06:28 > 1:06:37violence. We are also working on the ground with some 3000 women being

1:06:37 > 1:06:43provided with midwifery care. We are also having to fund the provision of

1:06:43 > 1:06:49medical services, counselling and psychological support. I will come

1:06:49 > 1:06:53back to the Honourable Lady in writing with some further details of

1:06:53 > 1:07:00the issues she raised on that point. As to the impending cyclone and

1:07:00 > 1:07:05monsoon season, this is obviously a matter of grave concern. Working

1:07:05 > 1:07:08with international partners, the UK has done huge amounts already to

1:07:08 > 1:07:12ensure some course of a million people continue to have access to

1:07:12 > 1:07:19safe drinking water throughout the rainy season, we have support in

1:07:19 > 1:07:29Kolarov, measles campaigns. More space will be cleared for further

1:07:29 > 1:07:31camps if existing plans become uninhabitable. I should also say

1:07:31 > 1:07:37immediately after this statement I am hoping to meet along with my

1:07:37 > 1:07:43colleague in the House of Lords, to meet the Bangladeshi Foreign

1:07:43 > 1:07:51Secretary, the most senior civil servant with foreign affairs

1:07:51 > 1:07:55responsibilities, I have met him on some occasions before, both here and

1:07:55 > 1:08:01abroad. I undertake that I will be discussing the concerns, urgent

1:08:01 > 1:08:08concerns about cyclone related issues.

1:08:08 > 1:08:13Let me say a little bit about returns and first of all confirm

1:08:13 > 1:08:21that at her meeting in February in China, the Prime Minister made it

1:08:21 > 1:08:26very clear in a private session with counterparts the concerns we felt

1:08:26 > 1:08:32about this issue and trying to get through the UN process. I am hopeful

1:08:32 > 1:08:39that continued pressure... Unfortunately, DeVito, it is not

1:08:39 > 1:08:45just China, Russia as well -- DeVito. I hope we can put pressure,

1:08:45 > 1:08:52not least with the interim support being finalised, as the situation

1:08:52 > 1:08:56remains high profile, a sad situation, I had hoped to come to

1:08:56 > 1:09:02the House on Monday, but other business, this was the first

1:09:02 > 1:09:06available opportunity to speak to the House. One of the biggest fears

1:09:06 > 1:09:10all of us have had and the Bangladeshi authorities is that the

1:09:10 > 1:09:17eyes of the world move away to other issues. I believe it may return, not

1:09:17 > 1:09:22least because if things go as Disney as they might do in relation to the

1:09:22 > 1:09:29cyclone season. -- dismally. We will work towards a UN Security Council

1:09:29 > 1:09:34resolution to call the Burmese authorities to account. She touches

1:09:34 > 1:09:40on the Magnitsky issue, she is right, it provides an opportunity.

1:09:40 > 1:09:47Unlike many former Russian citizens in this country, it is probably fair

1:09:47 > 1:09:53to say many of the Burmese senior figures do not have huge financial

1:09:53 > 1:09:58interests, either in assets, wanting to arrive here for visas, having

1:09:58 > 1:10:06children in schools, it is not somehow a silver bullet, if the

1:10:06 > 1:10:10Magnitsky arrangements are passed into law, that this will make a

1:10:10 > 1:10:14massive difference as far as sanctions against senior Burmese

1:10:14 > 1:10:18folk are concerned, but we will continue to work on that. Finally,

1:10:18 > 1:10:22just to touch on, others may wish to raise this as well, on the issue of

1:10:22 > 1:10:28the returns process, she will be a one the government limit of

1:10:28 > 1:10:34Bangladesh and Burma signed an agreement, but as it stands, to be

1:10:34 > 1:10:40honest, it is not just the UK, everybody there would assess that

1:10:40 > 1:10:45Northern Rakhine is simply not safe for returns. I spoke at great length

1:10:45 > 1:10:51with the Lord on the advisory commission and we had a meeting in

1:10:51 > 1:10:55the Foreign Office last week and he had seen on the ground and spoken to

1:10:55 > 1:11:00people, it is clear we are still, I fear, quite a considerable way from

1:11:00 > 1:11:04there being any possibility of safe voluntary or dignified returns to

1:11:04 > 1:11:15Rakhine State.We should not forget the plight of the Christian

1:11:15 > 1:11:20community to whom we owe a particular debt of honour,

1:11:20 > 1:11:23dispossessed by violence and prevented from returning by mining

1:11:23 > 1:11:29interests, and a sinister link between the two.My right honourable

1:11:29 > 1:11:35friend makes an entirely fair point, it was alluded to by the honourable

1:11:35 > 1:11:42lady, that the issues around minority communities are not

1:11:42 > 1:11:48restricted to Rohingya, this is the largest community treated in an

1:11:48 > 1:11:52appalling way by the Burmese authorities, but there are other

1:11:52 > 1:11:54minorities in the country and Christian minorities being

1:11:54 > 1:11:57persecuted and we will continue to keep the pressure on the Burmese

1:11:57 > 1:12:02authority.Thank you. I would like to also thank the Minister for

1:12:02 > 1:12:07advance sight of the statement. It goes without saying in this House,

1:12:07 > 1:12:14the humanitarian tragedy has reached an unthinkable scale. I visited with

1:12:14 > 1:12:18the international development committee last week in mega camp in

1:12:18 > 1:12:22Bangladesh, the enormity of what you see when you have almost 1 million

1:12:22 > 1:12:29people and three, four square miles, it is quite unbelievable, lost for

1:12:29 > 1:12:34words to explain just how big the humanitarian emergency years. There

1:12:34 > 1:12:40are 500 people still coming across every week, across the border, from

1:12:40 > 1:12:43Burma to Bangladesh, stories of atrocities and loss, murder, rape

1:12:43 > 1:12:51and the rest. Right now we're facing an imminent challenge, as we heard

1:12:51 > 1:12:55earlier, weeks away, running out of time, the monsoon pending, potential

1:12:55 > 1:12:59cyclone. I want to hear more from the Minister on what specifically

1:12:59 > 1:13:04has been done on this, flooding and imminent landslides, it could lead

1:13:04 > 1:13:13to further devastating loss of lives and subsequent waterborne diseases.

1:13:13 > 1:13:17The UK Government plans to work towards returning refugees to Burma,

1:13:17 > 1:13:22slow and considered. We share the view of the UN in the SNP and aid

1:13:22 > 1:13:25groups that this could cross the refugees back into danger and lasts

1:13:25 > 1:13:29week we heard from the Bangladesh minister it is unsafe for the

1:13:29 > 1:13:32Rohingya to return. We welcome the report by the UN fact-finding

1:13:32 > 1:13:36mission which adds to the overwhelming evidence that what has

1:13:36 > 1:13:41taken place in Burma is human rights violations of the most serious kind,

1:13:41 > 1:13:46like amounting to crimes under international law. We hope the UN

1:13:46 > 1:13:51special Rapoport said it had the hallmarks of genocide. My own city

1:13:51 > 1:13:53of Dundee is considering the withdrawal of the freedom of the

1:13:53 > 1:13:58city given to Aung San Suu Kyi for human rights and democracy and for

1:13:58 > 1:14:03upholding international law and for my constituents, it is profoundly

1:14:03 > 1:14:05important. The Minister has said he does not agree with the conclusion

1:14:05 > 1:14:08of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee inquiry that the UK failed

1:14:08 > 1:14:12to see the crisis coming. This conclusion was backed by

1:14:12 > 1:14:18overwhelming evidence. The unchecked hate speech, lack of government

1:14:18 > 1:14:22control over security forces, non-state and pseudo- non-state

1:14:22 > 1:14:29groups, no growing nationalist support the military and increased

1:14:29 > 1:14:31incidences of identity -based attack, serious indicators of

1:14:31 > 1:14:42escalating violence against the Rohingya. It would help to predict

1:14:42 > 1:14:45incidents of violence, mass atrocities and institutional

1:14:45 > 1:14:49violence... May I urge the work on the index starts immediately and may

1:14:49 > 1:14:54I urge the Minister to announce today he will begin the work to get

1:14:54 > 1:14:57the index and away? Could he say what lessons have been learned

1:14:57 > 1:15:02regarding atrocity prevention and how they will be applied in Burma

1:15:02 > 1:15:08and elsewhere in the future?I think the spokesman for the SNP for his

1:15:08 > 1:15:16kind words about our work that we are trying to do across Parliament,

1:15:16 > 1:15:21together. On the Cyclone preparedness, the UK is working with

1:15:21 > 1:15:28a number of partners in Bangladesh to work on strengthening

1:15:28 > 1:15:32infrastructure and ensuring at risk households are provided with shelter

1:15:32 > 1:15:37materials, part and parcel of the process is to try to persuade the

1:15:37 > 1:15:39Bangladeshi authorities, and I will do that in this meeting this

1:15:39 > 1:15:43afternoon, and we will express the strength of feeling that we need to

1:15:43 > 1:15:47open up more space in order that the confinement that the refugees are

1:15:47 > 1:15:55under which potentially could be calamitous if a cyclone hits in that

1:15:55 > 1:15:58area, that the confinement is restricted as far as possible. Let

1:15:58 > 1:16:05me say, I did not... I did not wish to be critical of what the Foreign

1:16:05 > 1:16:07Affairs Committee had concluded, not least with the chairman sitting in

1:16:07 > 1:16:13the benches behind me, the issue was really this has been an issue on

1:16:13 > 1:16:21Burma that we have not been quiet for the fact that the Rohingya were

1:16:21 > 1:16:25continually going to be under pressure, the notion it came out of

1:16:25 > 1:16:30the blue sky is one that we would contend is not the case. I have to

1:16:30 > 1:16:35say, being candid, everyone had a sense of wishful thinking, speaking

1:16:35 > 1:16:41earlier on, the right honourable gentleman for New Forest West who

1:16:41 > 1:16:46had a Dfid role and was Minister at that time, not blaming him, the

1:16:46 > 1:16:50whole international community was so hopeful that after decades of

1:16:50 > 1:16:58military rule in Burma, going back to 1962, the creation of the state

1:16:58 > 1:17:02in 1947, 48, arguably, suddenly, we would have a big surge towards

1:17:02 > 1:17:05democracy. The constitution that we were all party in the international

1:17:05 > 1:17:11community to seeing set up and I'm afraid, it provided a massive

1:17:11 > 1:17:17difficulty from day one once Aung San Suu Kyi became the state

1:17:17 > 1:17:20councillor. The power still in the hands of the military meant we

1:17:20 > 1:17:27overlooked, for example, the Rohingya, their rights, they were

1:17:27 > 1:17:31not included in the census, they were not allowed to vote. We

1:17:31 > 1:17:34recognise in hindsight that gave succour to the Burmese military to

1:17:34 > 1:17:38think they could get away with what they have got away with. There was a

1:17:38 > 1:17:43lot of wishful thinking. Some of the best motivations in the world, we

1:17:43 > 1:17:47wanted some progress, and after decades of the darkness in a

1:17:47 > 1:17:50military dictatorship, almost a close state, we looked upon any

1:17:50 > 1:17:54advancement as being something we should grasp hold of and it is a

1:17:54 > 1:18:01lesson for the future. I want to work with many NGOs, the approach as

1:18:01 > 1:18:10a good example of a group to try to work to wards having a set of

1:18:10 > 1:18:12policies together that we can look at conflict prevention for the

1:18:12 > 1:18:19future. Whilst many hundreds of thousands of lives have been

1:18:19 > 1:18:23blighted, tens of thousands have been ended by this dreadful event,

1:18:23 > 1:18:28and we know that this is still ongoing. The best legacy we can pay

1:18:28 > 1:18:31to the Rohingya is not just to try to get a better life for them, to

1:18:31 > 1:18:35ensure they have citizenship, a stake in the longer term in Burmese

1:18:35 > 1:18:44society, but to ensure their sacrifices, their hardship they have

1:18:44 > 1:18:48gone through, that it can be used as an example for the rest of the world

1:18:48 > 1:18:53to ensure we have those changes. That is ultimately partly an

1:18:53 > 1:18:57academic and practical exercise and we need to work again within the

1:18:57 > 1:19:05international community to bring that to pass.The in October, I

1:19:05 > 1:19:08believe I'm right in saying, one of the largest and most congested

1:19:08 > 1:19:13refugee camps in the whole world, equivalent to the city the size of

1:19:13 > 1:19:18Bristol, yet it has no hospital, inadequate schooling facilities,

1:19:18 > 1:19:23very few roads. It would seem to me the biggest risk to the Rohingyas is

1:19:23 > 1:19:27of an outbreak of disease in this massive refugee camp and it would

1:19:27 > 1:19:32seem to me that the number humanitarian priority is that this

1:19:32 > 1:19:38can't be broken up, extra space be found, so that if the worst comes to

1:19:38 > 1:19:44the worst, an outbreak, but it can be contained -- the number one

1:19:44 > 1:19:49humanitarian priority is that this camp be broken up.I agree. It is an

1:19:49 > 1:19:52issue that the international community will have to work together

1:19:52 > 1:19:55with the Bangladeshi government towards, but it is an issue we know

1:19:55 > 1:20:02we are very much focusing on. In disease prevention, I think we have

1:20:02 > 1:20:07had a good track record, we can be proud of the work we did to nip the

1:20:07 > 1:20:11diphtheria outbreak in the bud, but I am by no means complacent we will

1:20:11 > 1:20:16not have similar diseases being quite prominent, cholera, as well as

1:20:16 > 1:20:20diphtheria, in the months to come. Can I thank the Minister for his

1:20:20 > 1:20:25complaints of statement today? I go his words in describing this as

1:20:25 > 1:20:27humanitarian catastrophe. Can I reinforce what the honourable

1:20:27 > 1:20:35gentleman from Kettering has just said? The sheer scale of the camp,

1:20:35 > 1:20:40ten times the size of the refugee camp in Jordan. I welcome the fact

1:20:40 > 1:20:44the Minister is meeting the Foreign Minister from Bangladesh this

1:20:44 > 1:20:48afternoon but can I pressed him that really we need to say to Bangladesh

1:20:48 > 1:20:52at the most senior level that more needs to be done to prepare for the

1:20:52 > 1:20:57rainy season, sightings and monsoons? Can I urge that our Prime

1:20:57 > 1:21:03Minister speaks to the Bangladeshi Prime Minister to ask the

1:21:03 > 1:21:08Bangladeshi Prime Minister to take it personal lead? Otherwise the

1:21:08 > 1:21:11humanitarian catastrophe will be multiplied in the weeks and months

1:21:11 > 1:21:20ahead.May I thank the honourable gentleman for his words? He is

1:21:20 > 1:21:23absolutely right, I know his committee has done tremendous work

1:21:23 > 1:21:27and only wish they had been able to go to the other side of the border,

1:21:27 > 1:21:31it would have been very instructive, but the work they have done in

1:21:31 > 1:21:35Bangladesh is of tremendous importance. We are where the heavy

1:21:35 > 1:21:41rains and cyclones could have a very severe impact on the aggregate of

1:21:41 > 1:21:45nearly 1 million Rohingya already in Cox's Bazar as follows on host

1:21:45 > 1:21:49communities -- we are both aware. The host communities living in that

1:21:49 > 1:21:56part of Bangladesh, greatly to the credit of those communities and the

1:21:56 > 1:21:58authorities Bangladesh, there have not been tensions between the two

1:21:58 > 1:22:03but we cannot take that for granted. We are ready working in great

1:22:03 > 1:22:06earnest with the government of Bangladesh and humanitarian partners

1:22:06 > 1:22:11to improve preparedness, I will ensure his concerns are passed on,

1:22:11 > 1:22:15not just when I speak to counterparts, but also in dealings

1:22:15 > 1:22:18with the Bangladeshi High Commissioner to this country and I

1:22:18 > 1:22:22hope you will feel able to play a stronger role as he can in being

1:22:22 > 1:22:27able to make the robust case he does.I commend my right honourable

1:22:27 > 1:22:33friend for his statement, keeping the House updated on the plight of

1:22:33 > 1:22:38the Rohingya Muslims. He mentioned in his statement the plight of other

1:22:38 > 1:22:42minorities, namely the Hindus, Buddhists and raised by my

1:22:42 > 1:22:46honourable friend, the Christian community. Can he say further what

1:22:46 > 1:22:50is going to be done at the UN level and by the British Government to

1:22:50 > 1:22:55protect those minorities who at the moment do not seem to have any

1:22:55 > 1:23:02defenders at all?

1:23:02 > 1:23:12It is unfair to suggest they have no defenders I think but I do except

1:23:12 > 1:23:17the focus has been on the Rohingya, a stateless group in their society.

1:23:17 > 1:23:21If the Hindu, Buddhist and Christian groups that are being persecuted

1:23:21 > 1:23:29within the Rakhine State, they find themselves in a position where they

1:23:29 > 1:23:33at least have some sort of citizenship rights within Burma. We

1:23:33 > 1:23:39will do our level best and I know my honourable friend is aware of the

1:23:39 > 1:23:42work we do in relation to freedom of religion and belief, it is something

1:23:42 > 1:23:49we feel strongly about. Not just within Burma but elsewhere. I must

1:23:49 > 1:23:56say one of the concerns one does have is that within that part of the

1:23:56 > 1:24:00world, one sees what happens with the deterioration of human rights in

1:24:00 > 1:24:04Sri Lanka, the situation even in Thailand were suddenly there is a

1:24:04 > 1:24:08sense of the Buddhist community against the Muslim community that

1:24:08 > 1:24:10permeates beyond Burmese borders. That would be a calamitous state of

1:24:10 > 1:24:18affairs.The Minister has reminded the House today that the UN special

1:24:18 > 1:24:26raconteur for human rights in Burma has described this conflict as

1:24:26 > 1:24:29having the hallmarks of genocide, it is therefore imperative that

1:24:29 > 1:24:32everything is done to bring the various actors to Justice at the

1:24:32 > 1:24:36conclusion of it. The Minister is right to remind us about the

1:24:36 > 1:24:41challenges we face in reaching that and, and that there is an immediate

1:24:41 > 1:24:45issue here. The most compelling evidence that will inform any

1:24:45 > 1:24:49prosecutions in future is to be found now. Could the Minister tell

1:24:49 > 1:24:54me what the government is doing to ensure that every piece of evidence

1:24:54 > 1:24:59that is available for future use is being sought and acquired at the

1:24:59 > 1:25:08moment?Please be assured we are doing our level best to make sure

1:25:08 > 1:25:12there is a full collation and collection of all evidence to which

1:25:12 > 1:25:17she refers. We must be patient. We must recognise this is a painstaking

1:25:17 > 1:25:21process. I wish we could move more quickly towards concerns in relation

1:25:21 > 1:25:25to the process on genocide or crimes against humanity but please be

1:25:25 > 1:25:29assured we are very patient in collecting that evidence and when

1:25:29 > 1:25:36the moment arises we will be able to return to that.May I start by

1:25:36 > 1:25:38apologising for the fact that this week the Foreign Affairs Committee

1:25:38 > 1:25:44will not be presenting its report to the House because there is no

1:25:44 > 1:25:48turning back the tide of business so I apologise to the Minister for

1:25:48 > 1:25:54Kettering, my father is currently one of the people out training

1:25:54 > 1:25:58Burmese lawyers and is in Burma as one of the judges sent out by Her

1:25:58 > 1:26:03Majesty's government so I must declare that. Can I ask what the

1:26:03 > 1:26:10Minister is doing, they work so far has been exemplary, because this is

1:26:10 > 1:26:16absolutely a joint effects we are trying to achieve, but would he not

1:26:16 > 1:26:22agree Tasci and has a particular role to play and Britain's role

1:26:22 > 1:26:28alongside that could be game changing?I think Bastien's role

1:26:28 > 1:26:33could be game changing. He will also appreciate that they want to work

1:26:33 > 1:26:38together and clearly there are tensions with the position, for

1:26:38 > 1:26:41example with Indonesia on the one hand and Thailand on the other. It

1:26:41 > 1:26:48is more difficult for them to have a line on this matter. It is something

1:26:48 > 1:26:54I raise whenever I meet ASEAN figures. We will be working with

1:26:54 > 1:26:58Singapore who have the chairmanship of ASEAN this year. There is a

1:26:58 > 1:27:01meeting at the end of this year but it will be an increasingly important

1:27:01 > 1:27:08issue to be raised. Three members of Tim tonne, Singapore, Malaysia and

1:27:08 > 1:27:16Brunei will be present where we can raise these issues. -- three members

1:27:16 > 1:27:27of ASEAN.The imminent threat from the monsoon range must be stressed.

1:27:27 > 1:27:32Anyone who has seen the camps will know the flimsy, plastic and bamboo

1:27:32 > 1:27:36shacks that are built on loose on earth on deforested land will be

1:27:36 > 1:27:42simply swept away and that thousands of people could die. Could I urge

1:27:42 > 1:27:46the Minister when he raises with the Foreign Minister of Bangladesh this

1:27:46 > 1:27:50issue, to stress that it's not simply the intent of getting more

1:27:50 > 1:27:54land brought into play that's important, the important thing is

1:27:54 > 1:28:02action to achieve it. And action within days and weeks, not months.I

1:28:02 > 1:28:06thank the gentleman, he has seen with his own eyes and he is

1:28:06 > 1:28:10absolutely right, this is potentially a calamitous situation.

1:28:10 > 1:28:15The deforestation makes much of that land unviable for anything other

1:28:15 > 1:28:18than an emergency, short-term basis and he is quite right to point that

1:28:18 > 1:28:28out. I will do so requests.Can I echo the Minister's tribute to the

1:28:28 > 1:28:33people and government of Bangladesh for the generosity shown to the

1:28:33 > 1:28:39Rohingya refugees? What prospect, realistically, does he see any

1:28:39 > 1:28:43significant number of returns to Rakhine State in say, the next 12

1:28:43 > 1:28:48months? He is absolutely right to highlight the pernicious effects of

1:28:48 > 1:28:51the 1982 citizenship law, does he see any realistic prospect of that

1:28:51 > 1:28:59being reformed as he rightly proposed in his statement?Sometimes

1:28:59 > 1:29:02the wheels of diplomacy move more slowly but that is not to suggest we

1:29:02 > 1:29:06aren't going to be patient to work towards this. I believe they do need

1:29:06 > 1:29:10to be returned soon, as it will be aware there is an election coming up

1:29:10 > 1:29:15in Bangladesh and I think that is one of the reasons the Bangladeshi

1:29:15 > 1:29:19authorities will be keen to seem some movement towards return.

1:29:19 > 1:29:25Fundamentally we cannot accept that, the international community will not

1:29:25 > 1:29:29accept returns unless they are safe, dignified and one tree. As regards

1:29:29 > 1:29:38his other point, again I would strongly suggest this is going to

1:29:38 > 1:29:41take quite some time to work through. -- safe, dignified and

1:29:41 > 1:29:49involuntary. This issue of citizenship has been an issue since

1:29:49 > 1:29:54Burma was created but it is a fundamental and in fact in my view

1:29:54 > 1:29:58the most fundamental part of the Kobe and an report. Without getting

1:29:58 > 1:30:01the citizenship issue right we will not have the reform that is required

1:30:01 > 1:30:05and we will be working with all of our international partners to ensure

1:30:05 > 1:30:12genuine process is made.We all appreciate the difficult and

1:30:12 > 1:30:15frustrating job the Minister actually has. Is he satisfied that

1:30:15 > 1:30:21the Bangladeshi government has actually got the resources to deal

1:30:21 > 1:30:30with this situation, can he give us an assurance on that?To be candid,

1:30:30 > 1:30:34I can't give an assurance along the lines that have been put forward but

1:30:34 > 1:30:41we will be making this case and everyone is well aware of the

1:30:41 > 1:30:44conditions of a cyclone monsoon season, some are severe, others less

1:30:44 > 1:30:48so but nonetheless we are heading into that season so it is an issue

1:30:48 > 1:30:55at the forefront of the minds of all concerned.I thank the Minister for

1:30:55 > 1:30:58his comrades of statements on all the work that has already been done

1:30:58 > 1:31:01in Bangladesh. I met with representatives of world vision this

1:31:01 > 1:31:06week and they told me they are extremely concerned about the number

1:31:06 > 1:31:10of bodies that are buried in shallow graves throughout the camps. There

1:31:10 > 1:31:16is the issue of the imminent monsoon rains, and clearly the issue of

1:31:16 > 1:31:21waterborne diseases that could be spread if these bodies are we

1:31:21 > 1:31:25exposed. Can ask the Minister what work has been none specifically in

1:31:25 > 1:31:27this area both with Bangladeshi authorities and the local

1:31:27 > 1:31:33communities?Again, being handed I'm not sure exactly what work has been

1:31:33 > 1:31:37done but I am sure world vision are working with many other groups on

1:31:37 > 1:31:41the ground and those concerns will have been raised with authorities.

1:31:41 > 1:31:46Insofar as that's not the case, the Honourable lady has obviously been

1:31:46 > 1:31:49able to raise this at the House and I will make sure it is raised at the

1:31:49 > 1:31:56highest level.Can I especially commend the point the Minister made

1:31:56 > 1:31:58about returns having to be involuntary, which of course means

1:31:58 > 1:32:06they are frankly very unlikely, 77,000 traumatised people, go back

1:32:06 > 1:32:10to face the guns and the rapist that sent your way in the first place is

1:32:10 > 1:32:14unrealistic. But there will be pressure, the Bangladeshi

1:32:14 > 1:32:19authorities will want to see returns and that's understandable. Can we

1:32:19 > 1:32:23recognise if there are returns, there have to be security

1:32:23 > 1:32:28guarantees, there have to be properly underwritten and not just

1:32:28 > 1:32:35for the short-term for decades to come.Absolutely right. He makes the

1:32:35 > 1:32:38case very fundamentally, we would not seek for anything other than

1:32:38 > 1:32:44returns to be voluntarily and therefore we have to be patient. May

1:32:44 > 1:32:50I also say, it is worth pointing out that there has been a concerted

1:32:50 > 1:32:54effort of lobbying other nations via the Foreign & Commonwealth Office

1:32:54 > 1:32:59and since the Foreign Secretary arrived it is an issue we have

1:32:59 > 1:33:04raised not just with ASEAN states but places like China, Australia,

1:33:04 > 1:33:07Japan and New Zealand to make clear that we need to work collectively

1:33:07 > 1:33:11and potentially as a matter of great urgency both on the humanitarian

1:33:11 > 1:33:15side where the urgency will come, and the diplomatic side, we have to

1:33:15 > 1:33:20be in it for the long haul. That's not to be pessimistic, I am hopeful,

1:33:20 > 1:33:24I would love to see solution sooner rather than later but I think the

1:33:24 > 1:33:27honourable gentleman makes a valid point for the whole of the House

1:33:27 > 1:33:32that this is going to be an issue that will be high profile I suspect

1:33:32 > 1:33:35for many years to come before there are the warranty returns that we all

1:33:35 > 1:33:42wish to see.I thank the Minister for his comprehensive statement.

1:33:42 > 1:33:49Some of my constituents in Ipswich have relatives resident in

1:33:49 > 1:33:51Bangladesh you are providing involuntary aid and support in the

1:33:51 > 1:33:58camps there. They don't always see, working on the ground there in the

1:33:58 > 1:34:03camps, where the money is being spent. Can the Minister told this

1:34:03 > 1:34:06House what communications can be made available to assure people in

1:34:06 > 1:34:10this country that the British aid that is being given in the camps is

1:34:10 > 1:34:14actually being used effectively in order to give them the reassurance

1:34:14 > 1:34:23they need to make further donations to help the Rohingya people?I think

1:34:23 > 1:34:27the honourable gentleman and paid tribute to his constituents. The

1:34:27 > 1:34:30great majority of Bangladeshi Britons tend to come from the North

1:34:30 > 1:34:36east of the country, equally there are some nearby. The truth of the

1:34:36 > 1:34:43matter is, a large sum though £59 million is and certainly in the

1:34:43 > 1:34:47context of international contributions, when you think about

1:34:47 > 1:34:51six, seven, 800,000 Rohingya, that does not take us very far. The

1:34:51 > 1:34:55message I would ask him to put back to his constituents is that we are

1:34:55 > 1:34:59doing our absolute level best, we are working hard on the ground, but

1:34:59 > 1:35:07equally the sheer scale of what is required may give rise to a sense of

1:35:07 > 1:35:16hopelessness. Please try and implore the honourable gentleman to implore

1:35:16 > 1:35:19his constituents that that sense of hopelessness does not mean people

1:35:19 > 1:35:26turn off from this very real humanitarian calamity.This

1:35:26 > 1:35:31humanitarian disaster shocks us all but none more greatly affected than

1:35:31 > 1:35:34the Bangladeshi diaspora, as my honourable friend has just pointed

1:35:34 > 1:35:38out. I very much welcome the fact that the Minister is meeting with

1:35:38 > 1:35:41the Foreign Secretary from Bangladesh soon after this

1:35:41 > 1:35:48statement. As well as urging Bangladesh to organise and prepare

1:35:48 > 1:35:51as well as possible for the potential cyclone monsoon season,

1:35:51 > 1:35:57will also be offering whatever additional support the UK can give

1:35:57 > 1:36:02to help with those preparations, also in terms of our leadership role

1:36:02 > 1:36:08as the UN pen holder on this matter? I know the Deputy Speaker has been

1:36:08 > 1:36:13asking for brevity in my responses, I can happily give a very brief

1:36:13 > 1:36:19response. Not in anyway to disrespectful, but we are very, very

1:36:19 > 1:36:25happy to do that. We will continue to do so and I hope we can continue

1:36:25 > 1:36:27to make the huge humanitarian contributions which will require

1:36:27 > 1:36:30more money from not just us but within the international community

1:36:30 > 1:36:37in the months and years ahead.The clerk will now proceed to read the

1:36:37 > 1:36:45orders of the day.European affairs. The

1:36:51 > 1:36:55thank you Mr Deputy Speaker.I am delighted to open the second day of

1:36:55 > 1:37:02this very important debate. The outset to delay's debates, I want is

1:37:02 > 1:37:05set out the status of our negotiations and reiterate this

1:37:05 > 1:37:09government's vision for a future economic partnership with the

1:37:09 > 1:37:12European Union. I would in particular focus on the important

1:37:12 > 1:37:16issue of financial services within any future trade agreement. I remind

1:37:16 > 1:37:21the House we have been clear that the decision to leave the EU does

1:37:21 > 1:37:25not mean some love divorce or division. There is indeed no need

1:37:25 > 1:37:30for this given that the economies of the UK and EU are inextricably

1:37:30 > 1:37:35connected. -- loveless divorce. Given our shared values and

1:37:35 > 1:37:40challenges, I have no doubt that any future economic partnership must

1:37:40 > 1:37:45recognise and reflect these facts. We stand at the threshold of a new

1:37:45 > 1:37:48beginning with our European partners and a renewal of our commitment to

1:37:48 > 1:37:57ensure the continued stability of our union. Before I turn to our feet

1:37:57 > 1:38:01on a partnership with Europe, it is important to set out just how far we

1:38:01 > 1:38:07have come and what awaits us as we progress our discussions.

1:38:07 > 1:38:11The agreement in December was significant, the joint report issued

1:38:11 > 1:38:16by the UK and the EU set up progress on three areas, a fair deal on

1:38:16 > 1:38:21citizens people's rights enabling families to stay together, a

1:38:21 > 1:38:24financial settlement honouring the commitments we undertook as members

1:38:24 > 1:38:29of the EU, as we said we would, and an agreement in relation to Northern

1:38:29 > 1:38:36Ireland. We are confident that this collaborative spirit leading to the

1:38:36 > 1:38:40December agreement will endure as we take forward our approach into the

1:38:40 > 1:38:44next phase including the European Council next week. I will certainly

1:38:44 > 1:38:51give way to the honourable gentleman.I am grateful. On this

1:38:51 > 1:38:56concept of a collaborative open spirit trying to find solutions,

1:38:56 > 1:39:01frictionless trade, he will have seen Sky News report today that the

1:39:01 > 1:39:05Government is insisting on nondisclosure agreements with a

1:39:05 > 1:39:09variety of industry groups, transport bodies, hauliers and

1:39:09 > 1:39:14others, in trying to find its way through, why is the Government

1:39:14 > 1:39:20insisting on gagging business organisations in that way?In

1:39:20 > 1:39:24response, to the point the honourable member has raised, it is

1:39:24 > 1:39:28standard practice for the Government to use nondisclosure agreements and

1:39:28 > 1:39:32delivering a seamless post Brexit borderers at top priority and

1:39:32 > 1:39:39nondisclosure agreements are crucial to the open exchange of information

1:39:39 > 1:39:43and opinions on options and scenarios ensuring all planning on

1:39:43 > 1:39:46negotiations and decisions are based on what is achievable and most

1:39:46 > 1:39:53appropriate for the UK to ensure a safe and secure border. With respect

1:39:53 > 1:39:56of our future trading relationship, draft EU negotiating guidelines have

1:39:56 > 1:40:01been circulated to the EU for comment. We expect final guidelines

1:40:01 > 1:40:06to be formally adopted next week at the March European Council. We trust

1:40:06 > 1:40:10these will provide the flexibility to allow the EU to think creatively

1:40:10 > 1:40:14about our future relationship and looking ahead we are confident we

1:40:14 > 1:40:19will conclude a deal on the entire withdrawal agreement by the European

1:40:19 > 1:40:23Council in October. This confidence is not just grounded in mutual

1:40:23 > 1:40:36interest of striking a deal, but because we entered the

1:40:38 > 1:40:40negotiations from a point of striking similarities, our rules,

1:40:40 > 1:40:42regulations, a commitment to free trade and high standards, they are

1:40:42 > 1:40:45the same. As we build this new relationship, we are doing so from a

1:40:45 > 1:40:47common starting point. The next milestone will be an agreement of an

1:40:47 > 1:40:50implementation period. We saw the implementation period prioritised in

1:40:50 > 1:40:55the Mansion House speech and the foreign speech, alongside a

1:40:55 > 1:41:01frictionless border arrangement, the implementation period is the

1:41:01 > 1:41:06essential first step to ensuring we can all experience an orderly exit

1:41:06 > 1:41:10from the EU, plan accordingly and enjoys certainty in the transition.

1:41:10 > 1:41:16I give way.I wonder how can you possibly agree an implementation

1:41:16 > 1:41:24period when at the moment you doing -- you do not have anything to

1:41:24 > 1:41:28implement?While being ingenious in his use of language, he Will

1:41:28 > 1:41:33Greewood me I am sure that the purpose of the fermentation period

1:41:33 > 1:41:38is to make sure we have a period of certainty for business -- he will, I

1:41:38 > 1:41:46am sure, agree with me that the purpose of the implementation period

1:41:46 > 1:41:57is. I will certainly give way to my right honourable friend.I do not

1:41:57 > 1:42:01want to alarm you but I am completely in agreement with the

1:42:01 > 1:42:09right honourable member, this may be a first in this sort of debate, I

1:42:09 > 1:42:15know he too is in a state of high shock, but in all seriousness, this

1:42:15 > 1:42:20is very important. Implementation period, the clue is in the title,

1:42:20 > 1:42:23and many of us feared that in fact what we will have achieved by

1:42:23 > 1:42:29October is nothing more than a woollies set of terms of agreement

1:42:29 > 1:42:34and there will be very little to implement, so how does the Minister

1:42:34 > 1:42:41see things in reality panning out?I think whether one refers to it as

1:42:41 > 1:42:45transition, implementation period, whatever period one seeks to turn it

1:42:45 > 1:42:49as, the important thing is to understand what it is about and that

1:42:49 > 1:42:52is extremely clear and we have always been very clear, a period in

1:42:52 > 1:43:00which we will remain closely involved in the way in which we are

1:43:00 > 1:43:05at the moment, very similar, so that when we come through the period am

1:43:05 > 1:43:10moving to the post-transition or implementation period, we have

1:43:10 > 1:43:13undergone one set of changes and we have certainty in the interim for

1:43:13 > 1:43:17British businesses which is exactly what they have been telling us they

1:43:17 > 1:43:24would like to see and I will certainly give way.I would repeat

1:43:24 > 1:43:29these words, I propose we aim for a trade agreement covering all sectors

1:43:29 > 1:43:34with zero tariffs on all goods, like other free trade agreements, it

1:43:34 > 1:43:36should address services, because these are not my words, the words of

1:43:36 > 1:43:44President Tusk, which seems to have accepted the principle there should

1:43:44 > 1:43:47be a free trade agreement between the EU and the UK.He makes a very

1:43:47 > 1:43:53important meant and I will come on to it later in my speech, there is

1:43:53 > 1:43:57every reason why we should move to exactly that, a comprehensive free

1:43:57 > 1:44:04trade agreement, covering not just goods but also services. I give way.

1:44:04 > 1:44:09I would like to thank the member for giving way. Given that nearly half

1:44:09 > 1:44:16of our with the EU and 40% of that is services, would the Minister

1:44:16 > 1:44:25agree that the level of services coverage in, for example, Ceta is

1:44:25 > 1:44:29not deep enough and broad enough to recognise the mutual trade between

1:44:29 > 1:44:33the UK and the EU in services adequately?It is an important point

1:44:33 > 1:44:39and we will be seeking a unique deal for our country recognising the

1:44:39 > 1:44:43prime importance of financial services, but also the prime

1:44:43 > 1:44:47importance of financial services to the EU and the provision of

1:44:47 > 1:44:51competitive finance to the EU's business and consumers and the

1:44:51 > 1:44:57honourable lady mentions Ceta and the point there that is relevant is

1:44:57 > 1:45:02the fact discussions, even led by Michel Barnier, in the context of

1:45:02 > 1:45:06those negotiations, did recognise the importance of attempting to

1:45:06 > 1:45:09include areas like financial services within those agreements and

1:45:09 > 1:45:13that is exactly what we will be seeking in the negotiations that

1:45:13 > 1:45:17will now follow. We have the reassurance that the UK and the EU

1:45:17 > 1:45:25both issued published text reflecting significant common

1:45:25 > 1:45:30ground. The tax will codify an implementation period preserving the

1:45:30 > 1:45:35current status quo for business and consumers, time-limited, also

1:45:35 > 1:45:39providing sufficient window for the EU and the UK to put new processes

1:45:39 > 1:45:44and systems in place, ensuring continuity in the application of

1:45:44 > 1:45:48international agreements. As a third country, the UK will have the

1:45:48 > 1:45:51ability to use this period to negotiate and sign new trade deals,

1:45:51 > 1:45:55whilst reflecting the fact we cannot bring these agreements into legal

1:45:55 > 1:45:59effect until after the end of the period. We will introduce a new

1:45:59 > 1:46:06registration scheme... I will in a second. We will introduce a new

1:46:06 > 1:46:09registration scheme for EU citizens arriving post Brexit but in the

1:46:09 > 1:46:13implementation period when EU citizens should be able to continue

1:46:13 > 1:46:20visit, live and work in the UK, as they do now. I give way.The

1:46:20 > 1:46:23potential opportunities to negotiate new trade deals after we leave the

1:46:23 > 1:46:28EU, one of his colleagues was very keen to big up the prospects of

1:46:28 > 1:46:32riches to be had from that in the future, can he name any country in

1:46:32 > 1:46:37the world that so far has indicated they would be more likely to give a

1:46:37 > 1:46:40beneficial trade deal to the UK on our own than they would be to

1:46:40 > 1:46:49negotiate a deal with the world's biggest market?There have been a

1:46:49 > 1:46:53very large number of trade missions led by the Department for

1:46:53 > 1:46:55International Trade under Secretary of State for International

1:46:55 > 1:46:58Development and we have had extremely encouraging discussions

1:46:58 > 1:47:03with a large number of very important potential trading partners

1:47:03 > 1:47:10with whom we may be seeking free trade agreements. Of course, as I

1:47:10 > 1:47:14have said, we will be able to negotiate those within the

1:47:14 > 1:47:16implementation period, albeit they will not come into effect until we

1:47:16 > 1:47:26are beyond that point. I will certainly give way.Thank you. Is

1:47:26 > 1:47:30the Minister aware of the recent announcement in today's Times that

1:47:30 > 1:47:35says Brussels has agreed that Britain can sign free trade deals

1:47:35 > 1:47:41without the approval of the EU? Update the House on the status of

1:47:41 > 1:47:47this and what does it mean for free-trade policy?I thank her for

1:47:47 > 1:47:51the intervention and I believe she is right, I read that article this

1:47:51 > 1:47:55morning, and that would be very good and very sensible news, if that is

1:47:55 > 1:48:00the case, because it would be entirely logical that we should be

1:48:00 > 1:48:04in a position to negotiate free-trade agreements in any

1:48:04 > 1:48:07implementation period, albeit, as I say, we respect the fact we would

1:48:07 > 1:48:13not actually switch on the arrangements until we were beyond

1:48:13 > 1:48:23that particular point. As we have... I give way.We have trade dealings

1:48:23 > 1:48:29with over 50 countries across the world, worth around 140 odd billion

1:48:29 > 1:48:35pounds per annum in the UK trade exports, is it going to be the

1:48:35 > 1:48:38priority in the implementation period to renegotiate deals with all

1:48:38 > 1:48:45of these countries? Have we already got trade deals? We know they want

1:48:45 > 1:48:48to renegotiate the terms, greater access to UK markets as a result,

1:48:48 > 1:48:54how many of those deals does he think we will be able to renegotiate

1:48:54 > 1:48:58and sign before we actually leave the EU?I can reassure the

1:48:58 > 1:49:01honourable gentleman it is an absolute priority for the Government

1:49:01 > 1:49:04to insure the consistency and continuity of existing arrangements,

1:49:04 > 1:49:10as they pertain between the EU and other countries, and I see no reason

1:49:10 > 1:49:13why we should not benefit from those arrangements, just as those

1:49:13 > 1:49:18countries will indeed benefit from those arrangements with us, as we go

1:49:18 > 1:49:23forward. Mr Deputy Speaker, we have proposed practical solutions to

1:49:23 > 1:49:28deliver a smooth departure, one such is the introduction of a joint

1:49:28 > 1:49:32committee to resolve issues arising in the implementation period. The

1:49:32 > 1:49:36approach is a common feature of international trade agreements. The

1:49:36 > 1:49:39joint committee would allow the UK to raise concerns regarding new

1:49:39 > 1:49:44Lords which might be harmful to the national interests. We will also

1:49:44 > 1:49:48continue to discuss our involvement in relevant bodies as a third

1:49:48 > 1:49:52country during this period to ensure EU rules and regulations continue to

1:49:52 > 1:49:57operate coherently. Mr Deputy Speaker, it is in the interests of

1:49:57 > 1:50:01both the UK and the EU to agree the precise terms of the implementation

1:50:01 > 1:50:05period as quickly as possible and we are close to delivering this. We

1:50:05 > 1:50:09expected to be formalised next week at the European Council meeting. The

1:50:09 > 1:50:13fermentation period is key to forging the best possible future

1:50:13 > 1:50:16relationship, giving businesses and government the time and certainty to

1:50:16 > 1:50:20plan for Brexit and preparing the UK for its status as an independent

1:50:20 > 1:50:24trading nation. A bridge from where we are now to where we want to be in

1:50:24 > 1:50:30the future. On day one and beyond. Looking further forward, it is

1:50:30 > 1:50:33crucial hour talks progress, that we agree the terms of the future

1:50:33 > 1:50:38relationships with the EU and we're moving at pace to set the parameters

1:50:38 > 1:50:42of an economic partnership. As a Treasury Minister, I'm particularly

1:50:42 > 1:50:46focused on how the economy will interact and grow together and as

1:50:46 > 1:50:50the Prime Minister said in her speech, the UK is seeking the

1:50:50 > 1:50:54broadest and deepest possible agreement covering more sectors and

1:50:54 > 1:50:58cooperates more fully than any other free-trade agreement. The key

1:50:58 > 1:51:01component of any future agreement should be the inclusion of services,

1:51:01 > 1:51:07particularly financial services. As my right honourable friend, the

1:51:07 > 1:51:10Chancellor, made clear last week in his speech in Canary Wharf,

1:51:10 > 1:51:14financial services is a sector which calls for close cross-border

1:51:14 > 1:51:21collaboration. I give way.Can I take him back to the implementation

1:51:21 > 1:51:25period and renegotiating trade deals? Is the priority going to be

1:51:25 > 1:51:31renegotiating trade deals we ready have via the customs union or

1:51:31 > 1:51:37negotiating new trade deals with countries like the US and China?The

1:51:37 > 1:51:40honourable member will understand, both are extremely high priority and

1:51:40 > 1:51:46we will be pursuing both of those avenues vigorously. The Chancellor

1:51:46 > 1:51:50also reiterated that it is simply not credible to suggest a future

1:51:50 > 1:51:54deal could not include financial services. It is in the interests of

1:51:54 > 1:51:59both parties to ensure that EU can continue to access and enjoy the

1:51:59 > 1:52:03significant benefits afforded by our financial services hub because it is

1:52:03 > 1:52:07a regionally and globally significant asset serving our

1:52:07 > 1:52:12continent and beyond and near impossible to replicate. The UK can

1:52:12 > 1:52:17claim excellent in many areas, but in financial services, we are truly

1:52:17 > 1:52:21the global leader. We manage 1.5 euros trillion of assets on behalf

1:52:21 > 1:52:27of the EU clients, 60% of all the EU capital markets activities conducted

1:52:27 > 1:52:32in the UK. Around two thirds of debt and equity capital raised by EU

1:52:32 > 1:52:37corporate is facilitated by banks in the UK. It is the huge economies of

1:52:37 > 1:52:42scale that have led to London's dominant position in EU financial

1:52:42 > 1:52:46services and as the Chancellor made clear last week, we should be under

1:52:46 > 1:52:50no illusions about the significant costs if this highly efficient

1:52:50 > 1:52:54shared market is fragmented. Costs that will ultimately fall to

1:52:54 > 1:53:04consumers and companies across Europe. I give way.

1:53:04 > 1:53:09You make an important point, and as the Chancellor set out, those costs

1:53:09 > 1:53:14are of many billions of pounds. One example would be the proposal of

1:53:14 > 1:53:19relocation of clearing houses, effectively costing 25 billion a

1:53:19 > 1:53:25year. Would he also agree that as well as the direct situation of

1:53:25 > 1:53:29financial services, it is critical that the legal instruments that

1:53:29 > 1:53:32underpin those financial services also have continuity and therefore

1:53:32 > 1:53:36must be linked inextricably to continuity of access in legal

1:53:36 > 1:53:44services as well.He raises an important point about the

1:53:44 > 1:53:47significance of financial services, not just to ourselves but also to

1:53:47 > 1:53:52our European partners and asked to the specific point he raises about

1:53:52 > 1:53:57the continuity and regulatory and so on, I know the detail of that is

1:53:57 > 1:54:01something we are considering at the moment and will certainly be looking

1:54:01 > 1:54:07at the prospect of returning to that report stage of the relevant Bill.

1:54:07 > 1:54:13The UK stands ready to engage on a future trade agreements, one that

1:54:13 > 1:54:16includes financial services. Our overarching vision is for an

1:54:16 > 1:54:20economic partnership including a trade agreement that delivers the

1:54:20 > 1:54:26maximum benefits possible in all sectors. It will seek to strengthen

1:54:26 > 1:54:31the prosperity of Europe as a whole, not to weaken it. Despite this there

1:54:31 > 1:54:34remain some voices who question the possibility of reaching this

1:54:34 > 1:54:39agreement or who insist a trade deal cannot include financial services.

1:54:39 > 1:54:42The Chancellor adjust these sceptics in his speech last week and I repeat

1:54:42 > 1:54:48his words again today. Every trade deal the EU has ever done has been

1:54:48 > 1:54:53unique. The existing models do not represent the best way forward, nor

1:54:53 > 1:55:02do they provide a useful precedent for any future agreement. A seater

1:55:02 > 1:55:08style deal would present to low level of market access. We come from

1:55:08 > 1:55:12a unique position in the UK that on day one we will have the same rules

1:55:12 > 1:55:15and regulations not to mention deeply interconnected economies.

1:55:15 > 1:55:20Unlike other countries negotiating free trade agreements, this is not

1:55:20 > 1:55:23about aligning two totally different systems. Any new trading agreement

1:55:23 > 1:55:28should reflect the starting point of the an historic convergence. Over

1:55:28 > 1:55:33time there will be points of inevitable die burdens and so we

1:55:33 > 1:55:35recognise any future agreement should set out a clear approach to

1:55:35 > 1:55:43this aspect. Our country seeks the deepest and broadest agreement

1:55:43 > 1:55:46possible, a bold economic partnership of greater scope than

1:55:46 > 1:55:51any in history. A vision whose ambition reflects the scale of our

1:55:51 > 1:55:54mutual interests, our shared history and all that we can achieve together

1:55:54 > 1:56:01as good friends and trusted neighbours. Leaving the European

1:56:01 > 1:56:06Union represents the opportunity to chart a prosperous future, and along

1:56:06 > 1:56:08with my colleagues in government I have the greatest faith in our

1:56:08 > 1:56:12country and our ability to work with others to achieve a deal that

1:56:12 > 1:56:24provides and in Jaws for all of us. As we mark the halfway point of this

1:56:24 > 1:56:27general debate, it is worth reflecting that we have had a number

1:56:27 > 1:56:32ofthoughtful contributions from both sides of the House, and while I

1:56:32 > 1:56:38welcome any opportunity for Parliament to debate, discuss and

1:56:38 > 1:56:44hopefully shape Brexit, no one here is under any illusion that there is

1:56:44 > 1:56:49nothing we are doing more than filling time for the government's

1:56:49 > 1:56:58legislative paralysis. It has been nearly -- it is nearly one year till

1:56:58 > 1:57:01we leave the EU, there is a mammoth legislative task yet the government

1:57:01 > 1:57:04is holding back the trade Bill, afraid of defeat and understandably

1:57:04 > 1:57:11so. They have yet to present bills for migration fisheries or

1:57:11 > 1:57:19agriculture, perhaps worried about some of the hard truth is that too.

1:57:19 > 1:57:21The Prime Minister was right when she said we need to face hard

1:57:21 > 1:57:30truths. I don't just agree with the Prime Minister, I agree with her

1:57:30 > 1:57:41former deputy as well. If analysis is being produced, then publish it,

1:57:41 > 1:57:45he said. Frankly there will be a big political debate, let's have the

1:57:45 > 1:57:55argument in public. That's what democracies do. The country is

1:57:55 > 1:58:00facing critical decisions that will define how we left and our place in

1:58:00 > 1:58:09the world. Honesty and openness and hard truth are the very least people

1:58:09 > 1:58:14deserve, and that's why we pressed on the side for the publication of

1:58:14 > 1:58:19impact assessments and for the Treasury analyses of the future of

1:58:19 > 1:58:27the economy under different scenarios available. There is now

1:58:27 > 1:58:30published analyses do make for sobering reading. Ministers have

1:58:30 > 1:58:38said on a number of occasions, and repeated yesterday, that the three

1:58:38 > 1:58:44options the Treasury models do not reflect their desired outcome. They

1:58:44 > 1:58:51have also said, and the International Trade Minister was

1:58:51 > 1:58:59clear yesterday as well, when he told the House that the government

1:58:59 > 1:59:04was seeking an ambitious Free Trade Agreement with the EU. That is

1:59:04 > 1:59:10exactly what the central model in the Treasury analysis was. It was

1:59:10 > 1:59:14described as the best possible free-trade agreement, so it has been

1:59:14 > 1:59:19modelled, and what did that model tell us? Over 15 years, that Free

1:59:19 > 1:59:25Trade Agreement with the EU would result in a 5% hit to the economy.

1:59:25 > 1:59:305% fewer jobs, 5% less money for public services. If I can paraphrase

1:59:30 > 1:59:35the honourable member for Brookstone, who I think said

1:59:35 > 1:59:40recently that this must be the first government in history that is

1:59:40 > 1:59:51setting as its ambition reducing the size of the UK economy. The Prime

1:59:51 > 1:59:56Minister was honest about her plans would result in downgraded access to

1:59:56 > 2:00:01EU markets. What she did not make clear and what the Cabinet has

2:00:01 > 2:00:04resisted making public is just how damaging their version of Brexit

2:00:04 > 2:00:15would be for the economy. Initially, and it seems some time ago, we heard

2:00:15 > 2:00:18ministers talk enthusiastically about their plans for an ambitious

2:00:18 > 2:00:23Free Trade Agreement with the US. Which would compensate for the

2:00:23 > 2:00:28damage with our trade to the EU. But the government's on analysis says

2:00:28 > 2:00:38that that deal, even if they achieved it, would boost GBP by just

2:00:38 > 2:00:430.2%. That, in return for dismantling our food, health and

2:00:43 > 2:00:46safety standards among other demands of the US. Let's be clear on that

2:00:46 > 2:00:54one. We could have nothing but a hard border in Ireland if we

2:00:54 > 2:01:00diverged from EU agricultural standards. A US deal would require

2:01:00 > 2:01:09that. The ongoing negotiations on opening skies, if that's anything to

2:01:09 > 2:01:12go by, the special relationship will not count in the cold, hard light of

2:01:12 > 2:01:20the negotiations. As the hard truths of the difficulties over a US trade

2:01:20 > 2:01:24deal Dawn on even some of the more extreme Brexiteers, they suddenly

2:01:24 > 2:01:30decide the US is not that important after all. We have the spectacle

2:01:30 > 2:01:34recently on the 4th of March of the Honourable member for East Shoreham

2:01:34 > 2:01:40Walton speaking on radio five as a government minister, now dismissing

2:01:40 > 2:01:45the importance of a US trade deal, saying, and I quote, the real

2:01:45 > 2:01:52opportunities of the future will be with emerging markets. US trade

2:01:52 > 2:01:56deals, Northern Ireland peace agreement, Treasury economic

2:01:56 > 2:02:00analyses, all casually brushed aside by those who long for the deepest

2:02:00 > 2:02:16rupture with the EU. But Labour will not do that.The song and dance, the

2:02:16 > 2:02:22apparent concession by the UK that the EU would be able to negotiate

2:02:22 > 2:02:25trade deals during the transitional phase, does he honestly believe that

2:02:25 > 2:02:28the British Government and the British civil service will be able

2:02:28 > 2:02:34to renegotiate 70 odd deals we have already got through the customs

2:02:34 > 2:02:38union, new trade deals with the US and emerging markets or whoever they

2:02:38 > 2:02:42may be as well as the gigantic task of renegotiating the trade

2:02:42 > 2:02:47arrangement with the EU?What

2:02:51 > 2:02:54I thank the Honourable member for that intervention. He is right to

2:02:54 > 2:02:58joke about the difficulties that would be faced. There was a naivete

2:02:58 > 2:03:01on the side of the government in assuming these deals can just be

2:03:01 > 2:03:06rolled forward. It is one of the arguments that is behind our

2:03:06 > 2:03:12approach. And our policies on the customs union, because we want to

2:03:12 > 2:03:16face the hard truth is that the Prime Minister talked about at the

2:03:16 > 2:03:23Mansion House, and that's why we believe, with the CBI, with the

2:03:23 > 2:03:27engineering employers Federation, that a new customs union with the EU

2:03:27 > 2:03:32is best for manufacturing, and for our economy and it is the only way

2:03:32 > 2:03:41of resolving the Northern Ireland border.It's clear to anyone who

2:03:41 > 2:03:44reads the Labour manifesto, they set out their bold vision for an

2:03:44 > 2:03:48independent UK trade policy, I agreed with some but not all, that

2:03:48 > 2:03:50would have been completely incompatible with staying in the

2:03:50 > 2:03:53customs union and is completely misleading to suggest it is

2:03:53 > 2:03:55compatible.

2:03:59 > 2:04:03I think we could draw some interesting conclusions from the

2:04:03 > 2:04:09Conservative manifesto at the last election. I think we all need to

2:04:09 > 2:04:14face facts and perhaps the government needs to change views in

2:04:14 > 2:04:21the cold light of those facts. I do know, I always find it interesting

2:04:21 > 2:04:24taking interventions from the Honourable member, I do not know

2:04:24 > 2:04:35whether he is still advising... That's extraordinary.I think the

2:04:35 > 2:04:38spokesman for the opposition is still dealing with the previous

2:04:38 > 2:04:44intervention and he may in due course come to another intervention.

2:04:44 > 2:04:48I always find it interesting when the Honourable member talks about

2:04:48 > 2:04:52the interests of the British economy, I do not know whether he is

2:04:52 > 2:04:55still advising readers through the Financial Times to get money out of

2:04:55 > 2:05:00the country.As he well knows I never did that, I made a clear

2:05:00 > 2:05:08statement to the House and he should apologise.His comment in the column

2:05:08 > 2:05:13in the Financial Times on the 3rd of November 2017, under the heading,

2:05:13 > 2:05:19time to look further afield as the UK economy hit the brakes, and I

2:05:19 > 2:05:23quote, said quote, I sold out of the general share exchange trader funds

2:05:23 > 2:05:29in the UK after their performance for the year from early July 2016

2:05:29 > 2:05:33when I saw the last budget. And heard the Bank of England's credit

2:05:33 > 2:05:39warnings. The money could be better but to work in places where it could

2:05:39 > 2:05:42expand a bit to permit faster growth. I am completely accurate in

2:05:42 > 2:05:49my quote.The portfolio still had massively more in the UK than the

2:05:49 > 2:05:56general global representation and it was nothing to do with Brexit.I was

2:05:56 > 2:05:58simply questioning the Honourable member's commitment to the economy

2:05:58 > 2:06:09and he will notice...Order, order. The Honourable gentleman and all

2:06:09 > 2:06:14Honourable members can question other members political attitudes

2:06:14 > 2:06:18and what they say in this House, what we cannot have is one member

2:06:18 > 2:06:22suggesting that another member has said something in writing or

2:06:22 > 2:06:29otherwise which he says he did not say. I think... No, the Honourable

2:06:29 > 2:06:35gentleman will not question what I am saying. Mr Blomfield might like

2:06:35 > 2:06:41to consider just closing this down with a withdrawal of his remark.I

2:06:41 > 2:06:48thank you for that clarification, Madam Deputy Speaker. I apologise

2:06:48 > 2:06:54for any offence, but I was simply quoting from the Financial Times the

2:06:54 > 2:06:58column of the Honourable member which said, quote, time to look

2:06:58 > 2:07:02further afield as the UK economy hits the brakes, unquote. I give

2:07:02 > 2:07:12way.Now we turn to the subject we are meant to be debating today. The

2:07:12 > 2:07:15Honourable gentleman talks about manifestos, of course his party

2:07:15 > 2:07:19failed to get elected on his manifesto but is a familiar with the

2:07:19 > 2:07:22Conservative Party manifesto which some say we have drifted away from,

2:07:22 > 2:07:30but nevertheless it is clear that the policy was that we would seek a

2:07:30 > 2:07:40customs arrangement.

2:07:40 > 2:07:47It was a manifesto in the narrative that surrounded it which sought an

2:07:47 > 2:07:51overwhelming number leaver mandate for our hard Brexit and from which

2:07:51 > 2:07:55the British people fail to give to the Conservative Party -- an

2:07:55 > 2:08:01overwhelming mandate for a hard Brexit. We believe a conference of

2:08:01 > 2:08:05customs union with the EU replicating the current arrangements

2:08:05 > 2:08:08also does not weaken our opportunity to develop trade with the rest of

2:08:08 > 2:08:13the world -- we believe a comprehensive customs union. As

2:08:13 > 2:08:18Germany has shown, we do not need trade deals to develop trade. For

2:08:18 > 2:08:22example, with China. As the international trade secretary

2:08:22 > 2:08:25acknowledge when he was there with the Prime Minister in February,

2:08:25 > 2:08:30membership of a customs union will not hold back bilateral trade. Where

2:08:30 > 2:08:34deals can be done, we think membership of a customs union gives

2:08:34 > 2:08:39us a stronger hand in trade negotiations as part of a market of

2:08:39 > 2:08:44650 million people, rather than just 65 million, and maintaining strong

2:08:44 > 2:08:51EU... Madam Deputy Speaker, members of this place and the Government

2:08:51 > 2:08:55must be honest about the fact that any trade agreement... I will.

2:08:55 > 2:09:01Listening very carefully to members giving way and I understand he is

2:09:01 > 2:09:05asking to have a customs union with the EU, but listening to the Leader

2:09:05 > 2:09:09of the Opposition's speech less than three weeks ago, he also asked for

2:09:09 > 2:09:13an exemption on competition law, does the right honourable member

2:09:13 > 2:09:18agree that there is not a single country that has a customs union

2:09:18 > 2:09:24with the EU which also has an exemption on competition law and

2:09:24 > 2:09:31even Turkey has to apply to all EU treaties in this regard?Well, I

2:09:31 > 2:09:33recognise the honourable lady has enormous experience as a former

2:09:33 > 2:09:39member of the EU but she did ask that question yesterday and my

2:09:39 > 2:09:43honourable friend replied, I think she is confusing a customs union

2:09:43 > 2:09:53with a single market requirement, but let me answer the point anyway.

2:09:53 > 2:09:59The Leader of the Opposition did raise a concern that we would want

2:09:59 > 2:10:06assurances in relation to competition policy, but we are

2:10:06 > 2:10:09absolutely confident those assurances would be very easy to get

2:10:09 > 2:10:14and they would not be problematic. The Leader of the Opposition himself

2:10:14 > 2:10:19said, as I think was pointed out yesterday, on the Robert Peston show

2:10:19 > 2:10:22in January, we are absolutely confident there is nothing that was

2:10:22 > 2:10:30in our manifesto that would be thwarted by state aid rules.I would

2:10:30 > 2:10:34like to ask him to withdraw his accusation that I am somehow

2:10:34 > 2:10:41confused. It is very clear in the reading of Turkey's customs union

2:10:41 > 2:10:47arrangements that it has to comply with all EU treaty rules on state

2:10:47 > 2:10:57aid and EU law on competition in its custom union.I thank her for that

2:10:57 > 2:11:00clarification but we are not seeking a customs union comparable with

2:11:00 > 2:11:05Turkey. We are seeking a comprehensive customs union

2:11:05 > 2:11:13replicating the current arrangements we enjoy with the EU. I think we