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:00:00. > :00:00.it your Lordships without amendment. My Lord's. I am delighted to be

:00:00. > :00:09.opening this debate on the report BBC Charter Review. Reeth not

:00:10. > :00:14.revolution, from the Select Committee on communications which I

:00:15. > :00:19.have the honour to chair. The only interest I must declare is that my

:00:20. > :00:20.son Will Best is the presenter o after BBC children's programme on

:00:21. > :00:24.CBBC. I am grateful to my fellow committee

:00:25. > :00:28.members for their input into this report. They represent different

:00:29. > :00:33.perspectives within your Lordship's house and I think it is significant

:00:34. > :00:40.so much unanimity was achieved for our conclusions and recommendations,

:00:41. > :00:48.our thanks go to our clerk man Murphy, policy analyst and our

:00:49. > :00:54.specialist adviser, and to all those who made submissions to the

:00:55. > :01:00.committee, particularly the 43 witnesses who presented oral

:01:01. > :01:04.evidence. As a trailer for the debate today, Baroness

:01:05. > :01:08.Bonham-Carter's lunch break session on 10th March attracted 20 speakers

:01:09. > :01:13.with contributions limited to one minute, today, with even more

:01:14. > :01:19.speakers, but a sensible timetable I hope we can do more justice to a

:01:20. > :01:24.subject which affects virtually every single man, woman and child in

:01:25. > :01:29.the United Kingdom. I thank in advance all those who will be

:01:30. > :01:32.speaking, in this debate. The Secretary of State has told us

:01:33. > :01:37.our, told our committee that Government, rather than responding

:01:38. > :01:41.separately to our report, will take it into account, in preparing the

:01:42. > :01:47.White Paper on renewal of the BBC's Charter, we now know that the White

:01:48. > :01:51.Paper will be published in late May. This mean, my Lord's, that our

:01:52. > :01:56.debate is well timed to feed into the final stages of the White

:01:57. > :01:59.Paper's content, but once that White Paper has been released it will be

:02:00. > :02:04.important for this House to be given an opportunity to consider it fully.

:02:05. > :02:06.Could I ask the noble Baroness the minister, if she might reassure

:02:07. > :02:11.understand that time will be allocated on the floor of the House,

:02:12. > :02:17.to debate this proposals which will be set out in this important White

:02:18. > :02:22.Paper? My Lord's t title of the report on BBC charter renewal, foi

:02:23. > :02:26.which are indebted to our committee member the noble Lord, Lord heart,

:02:27. > :02:32.sums up the position we have taken. We put our faith in a BBC which

:02:33. > :02:36.respects and appreciates its founding principle, established by

:02:37. > :02:41.the first Director General Lord Reith, and we rejected calls for

:02:42. > :02:46.radical fundamental change in the underlying purpose of the BBC, or

:02:47. > :02:52.its scale or scope. Speaking personally, I was aware at the

:02:53. > :02:56.outset of our inquiry, of a lot of background noise about the

:02:57. > :03:03.possibilities of dramatic change for the BBC. Of course, there had been

:03:04. > :03:07.the Jimmy Savile scandal, criticisms of salaries for executives,

:03:08. > :03:13.accusations of political bias and so on, but as the evidence rolled in,

:03:14. > :03:19.it became clear to me that mostly the fuss, the call for the BBC to be

:03:20. > :03:23.cut down to size, opened up to commercial competition and the rest,

:03:24. > :03:28.was coming from the Westminster village not from the world outside,

:03:29. > :03:34.broadly we discovered that the public at large were strongly in

:03:35. > :03:39.favour of their BBC, and would be gratefully opposed to radical

:03:40. > :03:44.change. My Lord's, we recognise that with a limited timescale we couldn't

:03:45. > :03:48.cover every aspect of the BBC's future so we deliberately excluded

:03:49. > :03:52.the topic of governance of the corporation not least because they

:03:53. > :03:57.were considered by our sister committee, in the other place, and

:03:58. > :04:03.because in September last year the Government announced that Sir David

:04:04. > :04:07.Clementy would carry out a review. In the event I do not think the

:04:08. > :04:10.committee would have any disagreement with the Select

:04:11. > :04:15.Committee's views or the recommendations of Sir David on the

:04:16. > :04:22.creation a new unitary board for the BBC, with the abolition of the BBC

:04:23. > :04:27.Trust, and regulation by Ofcom. The areas we did tackle, in our eight

:04:28. > :04:32.month inquiry, covered first the underlying purpose of the BBC,

:04:33. > :04:36.second the BBC's scale and scope, third, the process for setting the

:04:37. > :04:41.license fee, and finally, the timing of the charity, for how many years

:04:42. > :04:46.should it run before renewal. In terms of the BBC's purpose, the

:04:47. > :04:50.charter states that the BBC's main objective is the promotion of

:04:51. > :04:55.certain public purposes, we decided to examine the six official public

:04:56. > :05:01.purpose, in some depth, but as we ventured further into the detail of

:05:02. > :05:07.these, it became increasingly apparent as was voiced most

:05:08. > :05:12.forcefully by the noble Earl, Lord Aaron that the purpose's framework

:05:13. > :05:18.come pricing a mission statement, six public purpose, purpose remit,

:05:19. > :05:22.purpose priority, and very detailed service licenses, was far too

:05:23. > :05:27.complex. When the director general came before the committee, we were

:05:28. > :05:32.shown the huge stack of forms and submissions, the BBC must complete

:05:33. > :05:37.to fulfil these multiple requirement, all this complexity we

:05:38. > :05:40.concluded makes practical assessment of the BBC's performance more

:05:41. > :05:46.difficult. We recommended a much simpler and transparent approach. We

:05:47. > :05:50.liked the distillation of the BBC's objectives the as set out by Lord

:05:51. > :05:55.Reith to inform, educate and entertain. And we recommend than the

:05:56. > :06:02.status of these Reethian principles should be reaffirmed at the BBC's

:06:03. > :06:07.overarching mission. We recommended scrapping the current six public

:06:08. > :06:13.purposes and felt instead the BBC should adopt the four general public

:06:14. > :06:19.service broadcaster purposes which apply to all PSP broadcaster, to

:06:20. > :06:25.ITV, champion four, Channel 5 as well as the BBC but with the BBC

:06:26. > :06:31.setting the gold standard. Its special status and funding through a

:06:32. > :06:35.universal license fee gives the BBC, we maintained, unique only

:06:36. > :06:40.investigations to its audience, it should reflect the different

:06:41. > :06:47.opinion, lifestyles, beliefs and values, of the UK's nations,

:06:48. > :06:51.regions, and diverse communities. Indeed we dared to suggest a fourth

:06:52. > :06:58.dimen should be the Reethian mission, so this might become to

:06:59. > :07:05.inform, educate, entertain and reflect, dimension. We went on the

:07:06. > :07:11.propose the abolition of the purpose priorities the and recommended a

:07:12. > :07:15.full review of the services licenses, with a view to these being

:07:16. > :07:19.simplified and strengthened. Defining clearly what is expected of

:07:20. > :07:24.each service, while still encouraging creativity, we were not

:07:25. > :07:29.letting the BBC off the hook. We felt it should be firmly held to

:07:30. > :07:33.account, for any noncompliance with the service license, and these

:07:34. > :07:38.should be reviewed more frequently than the current review held every

:07:39. > :07:43.five years. To assist this process, we were clear that the independent

:07:44. > :07:49.regulator should be provided with a comprehensive account of the BBC's

:07:50. > :07:52.spending by genre, for children's programme, new, drama, current

:07:53. > :07:57.affairs, etc, this information was made available to the committee, but

:07:58. > :08:01.because of its commercial sensitivity could not be published

:08:02. > :08:06.more widely. In looking at this, in other evidence weeks pressed some

:08:07. > :08:12.concern at the downward trend in the BBC's investment in current affair,

:08:13. > :08:16.spurred on by the noble Baroness, we understood line the importance the

:08:17. > :08:20.BBC continuing to fund adequately it output at the leader of in the field

:08:21. > :08:25.of children's programmes. We noted with concern a decrease in spending

:08:26. > :08:30.on arts, and we emphasised the important role the BBC in

:08:31. > :08:35.stimulating creativity in cultural exercise, particularly in the field

:08:36. > :08:41.of music and drama, and through training, and developing talent. We

:08:42. > :08:44.noted the criticism that the BBC was too London-centric and we commended

:08:45. > :08:50.the steps taken to address this by moving production to other city, we

:08:51. > :08:54.were impressed by the impact of the BBC's investment in Sam forked's'dia

:08:55. > :08:59.city, which we visited -- Salford. We heard from a number of witness,

:09:00. > :09:03.particularly a panel of young people, that the BBC did not

:09:04. > :09:10.sufficiently reflect their lives or the lives of those with disabilities

:09:11. > :09:14.or those within BA MA communities, we noticed the BBC recognised its

:09:15. > :09:22.deficiencies an we expect to see marked improvement. We heard

:09:23. > :09:27.concerns about decline across broads canning in religious programmes

:09:28. > :09:33.which the Bishop of Chelmsford made today. We say they should may Tain

:09:34. > :09:37.the quality an content of out put. Noble Lords will not be surprised to

:09:38. > :09:41.know we welcomed Government funding for it will World Service an we

:09:42. > :09:46.endorse the crucial role the BBC plays in the UK's culture influence,

:09:47. > :09:50.and soft power on the world stage. Turning to our second area of

:09:51. > :09:55.interest, the BBC scale and scope, it is true that the BBC has already

:09:56. > :10:01.had to cut back and find significant savings. We noted in today's global

:10:02. > :10:06.economy, the BBC is really quite small, compared in particular to

:10:07. > :10:11.American players such as Amazon and Netflix. We heard no convincing case

:10:12. > :10:16.for a significant reduction in the scale or scope of the BBC. Nor did

:10:17. > :10:21.we accept arguments that the BBC should be restricted to remedying

:10:22. > :10:26.gaps, for which the commercial market does not provide. We were

:10:27. > :10:34.clear that its out put should bring benefits to all license fee payer

:10:35. > :10:40.and don't to be a universal broadcaster. More over in the

:10:41. > :10:45.changing world of the digital age, we recognise that the BBC had an

:10:46. > :10:48.important role as an non-commercial contributors to development

:10:49. > :10:53.innovative technologies like the iPlayer, but also to delivering its

:10:54. > :10:58.content online. When we came to our third theme, with process for

:10:59. > :11:05.setting the level of the license fee, strong views were expressed to

:11:06. > :11:11.us about the deal struck behind closed doors, in July 2015. Most of

:11:12. > :11:15.the evidence was highly critical of the Government's proposal and the

:11:16. > :11:20.BBC's acceptance that the cost of funding free television licenses for

:11:21. > :11:25.the over-75s, should come out of cuts to other spending by the BBC.

:11:26. > :11:29.We recommended instead, that in future the process should be out in

:11:30. > :11:33.the open with widespread consultation before any such deals

:11:34. > :11:38.are done. We spelled out a detailed process, for setting the license

:11:39. > :11:43.fee, or indeed a household Levy if that was introduced.

:11:44. > :11:49.The independent regulator would make an evidence based recommendation to

:11:50. > :11:51.the secretary of state for Culture, Media and Sport, the Secretary of

:11:52. > :11:58.State would have an op obligation to do this or publish the reasons for

:11:59. > :12:01.not doing so, the relay for would be allowed to submit an amended

:12:02. > :12:04.recommendation but not a third one, the Secretary of State would have

:12:05. > :12:09.the final say, and as now, Parliament would be asked to approve

:12:10. > :12:17.a statutory instrument. Finally on the time, of the Charter

:12:18. > :12:21.Review process, we recommended a decoupling from the five yearly

:12:22. > :12:25.general election cycle. The present timings could lead to overhasty

:12:26. > :12:31.decision making soon after an election, we also noted that the

:12:32. > :12:36.impartiality and independence of the BBC could be compromised by a shore

:12:37. > :12:41.charter period. There would be a Sword of Damocles hanging over the

:12:42. > :12:46.BBC, with an ever present threat of an imminent new charter. More over

:12:47. > :12:50.over we recognise the considerable financial management burden of more

:12:51. > :12:54.frequent Charter Review, we were persuaded therefore, that the

:12:55. > :13:00.charter period should be no shorter than the current ten years. Which

:13:01. > :13:04.provides the BBC, and the wider creative industries that depend upon

:13:05. > :13:09.the BBC, with the necessary stability for longer term planning.

:13:10. > :13:13.But to avoid coinciding with the cycle of general election, we

:13:14. > :13:20.recommended the next charter should be for 11 years, with a ten year

:13:21. > :13:24.period thereafter. My Lord's, we did not shirk from recommending an

:13:25. > :13:30.enhanced framework of accountability for the BBC and I think it sits well

:13:31. > :13:32.with the recommendations from the review and the DCMS committee for

:13:33. > :13:47.regulation. We were unanimously opposed to

:13:48. > :13:50.diminution of the BBC. We will want transparency in the setting of

:13:51. > :13:55.licence fee and one an 11 year Charter period next time. Lighting

:13:56. > :13:58.criticism for these some aspects of the BBC behaviour in the past, I

:13:59. > :14:05.will report was overwhelmingly supportive and appreciative of the

:14:06. > :14:10.BBC. It is indeed a national treasure, an institution from which

:14:11. > :14:17.all of us gain so much, and can rightly feel a genuine sense of

:14:18. > :14:26.national pride. I beg to move. The question is that the motion be

:14:27. > :14:28.agreed to. Milos, firstly I congratulate the honourable ember

:14:29. > :14:35.Lord Best and indeed the committee on this report, and I can catch the

:14:36. > :14:38.noble Lord on the leadership of the communications committee and the way

:14:39. > :14:41.he is just introduced his report and I must say I found myself in

:14:42. > :14:45.agreement with virtually everything that he said. It is an important

:14:46. > :14:49.report, and I hope that the government will follow its

:14:50. > :14:53.proposals. I particularly in doors what the committee has said on the

:14:54. > :14:58.principles and guidance of Lord Rees, which is clear and above all,

:14:59. > :15:02.offensive, that the aim of the BBC should be to inform, educate and

:15:03. > :15:09.entertain, and even reflect, which has been added to. Each is

:15:10. > :15:13.important. I have always been most supportive of the aim to inform,

:15:14. > :15:19.meaning that the BBC should provide the best possible objective news

:15:20. > :15:28.coverage. A duty which to my mind and in spite of all the sniping, I

:15:29. > :15:31.think they fulfil excellently. I think the pain also to entertain

:15:32. > :15:35.must be recognised, there should be no question of that been jettisoned,

:15:36. > :15:40.so that the commercial sector can fill the gap. We all know what the

:15:41. > :15:48.result of the next stage of that would be, it would be an assault on

:15:49. > :15:56.the licence fee, on the basis that the BBC was not reaching the whole

:15:57. > :16:02.of the nation. My Lords, the report begins by going back to 1927, the

:16:03. > :16:09.formation of the BBC. But there is actually a staple for that. In 1925,

:16:10. > :16:14.an all-party broadcasting committee set up by the government proposed

:16:15. > :16:17.that and I quote eight public corporation should be set up to act

:16:18. > :16:22.as a trustee for the national interest in broadcasting. And added,

:16:23. > :16:36.that the corporation should be set up by statute. Ministers didn't like

:16:37. > :16:39.the idea of them not being in the drivers, didn't like the idea of

:16:40. > :16:44.being statute, because that meant putting things do both houses, and

:16:45. > :16:47.they said it would become a preacher of Parliament, to quote their

:16:48. > :16:52.phrase. So they brought forward the proposal that it should be under a

:16:53. > :16:58.Royal Charter, and thus it became a creature of government. The Royal

:16:59. > :17:05.Charter gave the government the ability to evade Parliament, and the

:17:06. > :17:11.powerful minister to do what they like. That is what the water other

:17:12. > :17:18.means, it the power to the executive, and that is the position

:17:19. > :17:23.that we basically have today, the government may make fundamental

:17:24. > :17:25.changes, but without the inconvenience of getting

:17:26. > :17:29.Parliamentary approval. And how do they defend this indefensible

:17:30. > :17:37.position? They say as my noble friend said only on Tuesday, and I

:17:38. > :17:41.quote, for nearly 90 years, a Royal Charter has been the constitutional

:17:42. > :17:49.basis of the BBC underlying the independence of the BBC from

:17:50. > :17:53.political interference. I make absolutely no criticism of my noble

:17:54. > :17:59.friend who is one of our very best ministers, and I underlined that,

:18:00. > :18:02.but this is the consistent line of the Department of culture and has

:18:03. > :18:09.been for the last decade and probably more, even when they say

:18:10. > :18:15.they are protecting the BBC from political interference, that really

:18:16. > :18:18.is the greatest nonsense. The political interference comes not

:18:19. > :18:22.from Parliament, it comes from government. The worst political

:18:23. > :18:32.interference is the interference of government ministers, and so it has

:18:33. > :18:38.been over the last few decades. My Lords, I wasn't... It wasn't

:18:39. > :18:45.Parliament who handed over to the BBC a ?600 million bill for free

:18:46. > :18:53.television for the 07 divides. It was the government. -- over seven

:18:54. > :18:55.divides. The government is notorious for interfering politically. Unless

:18:56. > :19:01.one understand and accept that then I don't think we'll make a great

:19:02. > :19:06.amount of progress. Let us recognise that quite irrespective of party all

:19:07. > :19:12.government and prime ministers have their views. I remember the noble

:19:13. > :19:18.Lady Thatcher, she made no effort to disguise her scepticism. At the

:19:19. > :19:23.dinner of the government, I remember her saying that if she was ever

:19:24. > :19:30.detected to say selling nice about the BBC, Dennis soon be persuaded

:19:31. > :19:37.her out of it. It was just the occasion! Following the last

:19:38. > :19:46.election, all kinds of threatening noises time from number ten that now

:19:47. > :19:51.was the time to take on the BBC. And of course, suspicion and antipathy

:19:52. > :19:59.BBC reporting is not confined to one party. Howard Wilson was not

:20:00. > :20:02.renowned as a great supporter of the independence of the British board

:20:03. > :20:05.operation, and even more up-to-date, nor was Tony Blair and Alistair

:20:06. > :20:10.Campbell. There were beside themselves with rage about the

:20:11. > :20:19.corporation's coverage of the Iraq war. So, the last charter in review

:20:20. > :20:25.in 2005, a number of us were on that committee, which looked at the

:20:26. > :20:28.charter then, they invented the BBC trust, and they deliberately at the

:20:29. > :20:41.top of the BBC divided responsibility. So, when the GC MS

:20:42. > :20:45.say they do that the charter has and I quote served us so well for 90

:20:46. > :20:56.years, I think we are entitled to save just who you kidding? -- the

:20:57. > :21:04.DCMS. In 1995I was chairman of the committee looking at the renewal of

:21:05. > :21:08.the BBC, the BBC trust, dividing at the top of the corporation. We

:21:09. > :21:13.rejected the proposal! That of course had not the slightest impact

:21:14. > :21:17.on the decision whatsoever. The government, using their charter

:21:18. > :21:22.powers, imposed it, and now ten years later, can one see what is

:21:23. > :21:28.happening? What is happening now? It is that it is going to be abolished

:21:29. > :21:31.at as a bold step by the new government. Goodness knows what the

:21:32. > :21:38.cost to the taxpayer is of this fruitless adventure, and this is the

:21:39. > :21:42.direct product of the Royal Charter that has served us so well. My

:21:43. > :21:49.Lords, the only sensible question to be asked now is what we can do about

:21:50. > :21:53.it, and it seems to me that there are two possible courses. You could

:21:54. > :21:58.turn the BBC into a statutory corporation like Channel 4. That

:21:59. > :22:04.actually has very substantial attractions. It means with Channel

:22:05. > :22:09.4, for example, fundamental twinges, would have to be approved by

:22:10. > :22:14.parliament. It means that if you wanted to privatise Channel 4 and

:22:15. > :22:18.there are rumours of that kind, you have two introduce primary

:22:19. > :22:23.legislation through both houses of both Parliament. Now I am not a whip

:22:24. > :22:31.but I wouldn't give too many chances of that surviving all that. It does

:22:32. > :22:35.mean that if the government had the slightest sense, they wouldn't

:22:36. > :22:39.attempt such action, so it is a great check upon the power of

:22:40. > :22:45.governments to act. That is one course. The alternative is to make

:22:46. > :22:48.the charter changes subject to approval by both Houses of

:22:49. > :22:53.parliament, in this way, the BBC trust proposal would have had to

:22:54. > :23:00.come to Parliament and would have had to approach be approved by both

:23:01. > :23:08.houses. That is an alternative, less elaborate perhaps way of doing it,

:23:09. > :23:13.and my noble friend Lord Lester, the noble Lord Lord Lester, he is my

:23:14. > :23:20.friend as well, I will allow him to set that out. The point is the

:23:21. > :23:26.charter as a noun stands means either fundamental reform or total

:23:27. > :23:30.abolition. It is utterly undemocratic, makes a nonsense of

:23:31. > :23:35.parliamentary sovereignty, and hands all power to ministers, and I will

:23:36. > :23:42.would not have thought that anyone in that -- in this country really

:23:43. > :23:47.wants. My Lords I will not try to cover the whole of the BBC, but in

:23:48. > :23:53.conclusion that Lambie just to say this. I am passionately in favour of

:23:54. > :24:01.an independent BBC, free from government interference will stop a

:24:02. > :24:06.BBC with a place in the world, and a strong BBC World Service. A BBC

:24:07. > :24:10.where news reporting is put high, and reporting skills of

:24:11. > :24:16.correspondence are properly valued. A BBC with a licence fee, and not

:24:17. > :24:21.some subscription model. A BBC which is subject to check but not the

:24:22. > :24:26.check of the BBC trust, particularly when we have a perfectly good

:24:27. > :24:32.regulator in Ofcom. And of course above all, perhaps, a BBC where the

:24:33. > :24:35.director-general and an independent board to make the decisions

:24:36. > :24:43.regarding corporation inside the budget that they have and are given.

:24:44. > :24:51.My Lords, what I do not want is a board for the BBC to be set up and

:24:52. > :24:56.to include and the consisting of government placements of one kind or

:24:57. > :25:04.another. But I do not want fully BBC. -- that I do not want for the

:25:05. > :25:14.BBC. What I think we should have is five-year reviews, also, which would

:25:15. > :25:18.mean that the BBC is constantly under threat of review and the

:25:19. > :25:22.threat of change. -- I do not want five-year reviews. Government's

:25:23. > :25:25.involvement with therefore becomes greater rather than less, and that

:25:26. > :25:32.is not what the public in this country what you want. My hope is

:25:33. > :25:35.the government will recognise the importance of the BBC and its

:25:36. > :25:42.national and its international reputation, and my hope is that the

:25:43. > :25:44.government see to strengthen the BBC not to weaken it, and my hope is

:25:45. > :25:50.also that the government would follow the advice of this excellent

:25:51. > :25:58.report from the Communications committee, and implement their

:25:59. > :26:01.proposals within it. My Lords, I too welcome this opportunity of this

:26:02. > :26:06.debate, like Lord Fowler, and I'm grateful to Lord Best of committee

:26:07. > :26:13.for their sterling work. It is not the first time I have followed a

:26:14. > :26:17.speech from Lord Fowler on this topic and climate of agreeing with

:26:18. > :26:21.all of his words. Having shed the joint scrutiny committee from the

:26:22. > :26:26.2003 communications Beale, I'm keenly aware of the complexities of

:26:27. > :26:30.any discussion on this issue. I would like to declare an interest. I

:26:31. > :26:34.am chairing an ongoing enquiry into the future of Public Service

:26:35. > :26:41.Broadcasting generally, not just the BBC, and we intend to report in

:26:42. > :26:49.June. This committee bug report we are debating today is extremely

:26:50. > :26:52.helpful. I was forced -- it was somewhat narrower than the debate

:26:53. > :26:56.deserves that this rather late stage in the process. I welcome its focus

:26:57. > :27:01.on public purpose, the support for a far more transparent purpose of

:27:02. > :27:06.setting up the license bill, and its positions of emotion of the BBC

:27:07. > :27:10.being any form of market failure broadcaster. I strongly support the

:27:11. > :27:14.conclusion that there is no need no justification for contestable

:27:15. > :27:20.funding, let alone further top slicing of the BBC's resources for

:27:21. > :27:24.other purposes. The reports remit did not allow it to address the

:27:25. > :27:27.issues of governance, and funding more generally. It suggested

:27:28. > :27:30.scrapping a good deal of the framework without putting in place

:27:31. > :27:38.anything substantive beyond supporting Ofcom's definition of

:27:39. > :27:43.PSP. For me, the crucial issue that anyone seriously interested in the

:27:44. > :27:45.democracy is to focus on the overriding importance of the

:27:46. > :27:59.corporation independence. The future cannot be business as

:28:00. > :28:01.usual, the need is to restore faith in the process and to do so the

:28:02. > :28:06.Government Mr Mitchell at its support for meaningful independence

:28:07. > :28:09.in its approach to appointments. As we are currently seeing, governments

:28:10. > :28:13.of all persuasions can and do use the prospect of charge review and

:28:14. > :28:16.its associated funding decisions to put pressure on the BBC. For a

:28:17. > :28:21.democracy such as ours I believe this to be a thoroughly unhealthy

:28:22. > :28:25.state of affairs, and surely, my Lords, after almost a century of

:28:26. > :28:29.extraordinary access the time has come for the BBC to be constituted

:28:30. > :28:34.on a more secure and permanent basis. I will therefore be avidly

:28:35. > :28:39.supporting Lord Lester in arguing in favour of replacing the present

:28:40. > :28:42.Charter system by placing the BBC on a statutory footing, if necessary

:28:43. > :28:48.through the new act of Parliament. The recent review of the BBC's

:28:49. > :28:50.governance and legislation was right to highlight the problems BBC Trust

:28:51. > :28:56.has experienced since it replaced the governors as the corporation's

:28:57. > :29:00.sovereign body. As Sir David noticed the trust has completed governance

:29:01. > :29:04.with regulation and as a result as often been hard to tell who has been

:29:05. > :29:11.in charge, the executive or the trust. I'm sure I was not the only

:29:12. > :29:14.Member of the House who was disappointed to read Sir David's

:29:15. > :29:19.suggestion that government could appoint six out of the 13 unitary

:29:20. > :29:24.board members. It is even more disturbing to hear the Conservative

:29:25. > :29:28.Secretary of State to suggest it is perfectly that it for the Government

:29:29. > :29:32.to appoint a significant majority of board members. Given that the green

:29:33. > :29:35.paper claims, and I quote: the independence of the BBC is

:29:36. > :29:39.absolutely central to its mission, then surely any proposal to increase

:29:40. > :29:42.government influence of what is intended to be a powerful and

:29:43. > :29:48.influential body, suggests precisely the opposite. At the very least, the

:29:49. > :29:53.process should resemble that of Channel 4, nine of who is 13 board

:29:54. > :29:58.members, I am deputy chairman, nine of who is Boardman Lambert are

:29:59. > :30:02.appointed by Ofcom, free of any perceptible government influence.

:30:03. > :30:06.I'd like to see a majority of board members selected through a more

:30:07. > :30:13.democratic and imaginative process involving diverse experience from

:30:14. > :30:18.across the country. My Lords, we should all be conscious of a growing

:30:19. > :30:23.disquiet and even an anger over the prospect of a Whittingdale

:30:24. > :30:26.broadcasting Corporation. I prefer, noble Lords to the speech given by

:30:27. > :30:30.the shadow secretary for DC MS on Tuesday of this week in which she

:30:31. > :30:36.excoriated the government for what appeared to be its bullying of the

:30:37. > :30:39.corporation during this current charter reviewing process. For

:30:40. > :30:46.example by floating proposals that would involve the corporation

:30:47. > :30:49.selling its stake in UK TV's burqa of channels stripping BBC worldwide

:30:50. > :30:54.of a third of its profits command also draw the attention of the House

:30:55. > :30:57.to the person who may well be this country's most trusted public

:30:58. > :31:02.figure, Sir David Attenborough, that as he put it the government need to

:31:03. > :31:07.put themselves at arm's-length from the BBC in order to protect its

:31:08. > :31:10.independence. My Lords, the Government has an opportunity to

:31:11. > :31:14.demonstrate its support for the BBC through its deeds rather than its

:31:15. > :31:17.words. Providing the corporation with the security and scale it

:31:18. > :31:22.requires to continue in its role as the fundamental cornerstone for

:31:23. > :31:26.public service information landscape as well as the vital engine room of

:31:27. > :31:30.the UK's ever more successful creative industries. Yes, the BBC

:31:31. > :31:34.needs to enter into new partnerships but they should not be imposed

:31:35. > :31:37.through top slicing, or forcing it to become more distinctive when it's

:31:38. > :31:43.obvious this is simply another way of saying that it should retreat

:31:44. > :31:47.from popular formats. My Lords, for almost 20 years I had the pleasure

:31:48. > :31:52.of sitting on the board of Anglia television. As such, I witnessed at

:31:53. > :31:56.first hand the manner in which ill considered legislation, in this case

:31:57. > :32:01.the 1990 broadcasting act, led to significant and holy ancestry job

:32:02. > :32:06.losses, the evisceration of an excellent regionally -based training

:32:07. > :32:09.structure and general decline in regional pride and identity, and

:32:10. > :32:13.most regrettable of all, the erosion of democratic accountability. My

:32:14. > :32:18.Lords, you only have to consider the dramatically reduced level of

:32:19. > :32:24.visibility of any backbench MP as against the situation 30 years ago,

:32:25. > :32:26.a time when every MP, along with other significant local political

:32:27. > :32:31.figures, could expect to get their views aired across their regions and

:32:32. > :32:36.to their local constituents on at least a quarterly basis. That's what

:32:37. > :32:38.I'm referring to when I refer to ill thought through legislation creating

:32:39. > :32:44.a damaging loss of democratic accountability. I'm pleased,

:32:45. > :32:48.however, my Lords, to report not every senior member of the

:32:49. > :32:51.government shares a lingering antipathy towards the government.

:32:52. > :32:57.Here is what the Chancellor had to say on Radio 4 just two days ago.

:32:58. > :33:00.Britain is a great country, it's the world's fifth-largest economy with

:33:01. > :33:06.the world's best Armed Forces, best health service and best broadcaster.

:33:07. > :33:10.We are the first in the world for soft power thanks to our language,

:33:11. > :33:16.culture and creativity. Unless I'm very much mistaken, my Lords, I

:33:17. > :33:21.don't think Mr Gove was referring to Sky, but who knows? We have been

:33:22. > :33:25.assured that the White Paper on the future of the BBC will be with us

:33:26. > :33:27.shortly. We can only hope it contains measures designed to

:33:28. > :33:30.strengthen public service broadcasting and not to eviscerate

:33:31. > :33:35.it at the behest of its commercial rivals. Indeed, I think we should do

:33:36. > :33:39.more than hope. I'd like to believe that today's debate will be seen as

:33:40. > :33:43.a shot across the bows of any government from any party wishing to

:33:44. > :33:50.bring forward measures that could damage one of this country's two

:33:51. > :33:54.most highly regarded institutions. In a world running short on trust

:33:55. > :33:58.the BBC remains a significantly more credible organisation than any of

:33:59. > :34:02.those who for political or commercial reasons seek to undermine

:34:03. > :34:07.it. Two weeks ago I had the pleasure of chairing an event at Bafta

:34:08. > :34:13.discussing the future of public service broadcasting. At the end of

:34:14. > :34:17.what was a lively session, I suggested that there was such public

:34:18. > :34:19.interest in this area that any attempt by government to undermine

:34:20. > :34:23.the BBC and its independence would be met by a march down Whitehall

:34:24. > :34:28.that would make the countryside Alliance look like a tea party. I

:34:29. > :34:33.sincerely believe that could be the case, I sincerely hope it will be

:34:34. > :34:41.there and I hope the rest of the country would back it. My Lords, I

:34:42. > :34:45.too congratulate noble Lord Lord Best and members of this committee

:34:46. > :34:49.on an excellent and wide-ranging report. I've long been a critical

:34:50. > :34:54.friend of the BBC, believing it to be the best broadcaster in the

:34:55. > :34:59.world, and indeed one of the best gifts of this nation to the world.

:35:00. > :35:04.And the committee's report talks in similar terms, describing the BBC as

:35:05. > :35:08.one of this nation's most treasured institutions, a keystone of British

:35:09. > :35:14.rod casting, respected across the world, and it talks of the BBC

:35:15. > :35:21.playing a central role in the wider creative industries. But, my Lords,

:35:22. > :35:24.it is vital that as the Government finalises its deliberations on a new

:35:25. > :35:30.charter, nothing is done which will undermine the BBC's ability to

:35:31. > :35:34.continue to merit such accolades, and nothing should be done to

:35:35. > :35:40.undermine the independence and impartiality of the BBC. The noble

:35:41. > :35:46.Lord Lord Puttnam said that this should be the top priority, and I

:35:47. > :35:50.entirely agree with him. And the noble Lord Lord Fowler, with a

:35:51. > :35:53.distinguished track record in these areas, talked powerfully about the

:35:54. > :35:59.need to develop mechanisms to reduce government interference in the BBC,

:36:00. > :36:02.and when he speaks later, my noble and learned friend Lord Lester will

:36:03. > :36:09.talk about how he believes statutory underpinning can help and I look

:36:10. > :36:13.forward to hearing his contribution. The committee report makes clear,

:36:14. > :36:17.and I entirely agree with it, that maintaining independence and

:36:18. > :36:23.impartiality will be aided by a new charter which lasts for at least ten

:36:24. > :36:27.years. On Tuesday in your lordship's house I noted that the noble lady

:36:28. > :36:32.the Minister referred to the value of a Royal Charter lasting for what

:36:33. > :36:37.she described as a good period of time. I hope very much that she will

:36:38. > :36:43.accept the committee's recommendation for a minimum 10-year

:36:44. > :36:46.period. Since this will not only help protect the independence and

:36:47. > :36:50.impartiality, but it will also provide security in terms of

:36:51. > :36:54.planning and investment for the BBC, and as the report points out,

:36:55. > :36:59.stability for the wider creative industries that relate to the BBC.

:37:00. > :37:04.But, of course, that security and stability would be undermined if the

:37:05. > :37:10.charter period is set for a good period of time but includes a

:37:11. > :37:15.mid-term review whose scope allows for the unpicking of bits of the

:37:16. > :37:20.charter itself, and I hope we can receive free assurances that that

:37:21. > :37:22.will not be the case. And the report makes one other important

:37:23. > :37:28.recommendation on the length of the charter, suggesting that the next

:37:29. > :37:32.Charter should be and not ten years, to decouple the Charter review

:37:33. > :37:36.process from the General Election cycle, and to allow full

:37:37. > :37:39.consultation and dialogue. I think that is an extremely sensible

:37:40. > :37:44.proposal and I look forward to hearing the noble lady, the

:37:45. > :37:48.Minister's thoughts on it. My Lords, the committee, as we have heard,

:37:49. > :37:52.consciously did not cover the issue of governance of the BBC. Their

:37:53. > :37:56.decision in the words of the report to eschew governments was well

:37:57. > :38:04.founded, given the subsequent announcement of the review. Sir

:38:05. > :38:09.David's review proposed the most radical overhaul of the BBC's

:38:10. > :38:14.governance in its lifetime, ensuring the regulation of the BBC fully

:38:15. > :38:18.passes to an external regulator in Ofcom, while governance being

:38:19. > :38:23.transferred to a new unitary board with executive and nonexecutive

:38:24. > :38:29.directors. Now, my Lords, I oppose the establishment of the BBC Trust,

:38:30. > :38:32.a fruitless venture as the noble Lord Lord Fowler called it. I

:38:33. > :38:37.thought it was entirely wrong to set a better body that sought to be both

:38:38. > :38:43.a flag waver for the BBC and a regulator of the BBC. These two

:38:44. > :38:47.roles are incompatible and Sir David's proposal for an external

:38:48. > :38:52.regulator and a unitary board resolves this conflict and I welcome

:38:53. > :38:57.them. However, like others who have already spoken, I do not believe the

:38:58. > :39:03.independence of the BBC will be achieved if the nonexecutive members

:39:04. > :39:07.of the proposed board our government appointees. The Secretary of State

:39:08. > :39:10.of the CMS said recently that he didn't think the government

:39:11. > :39:13.appointment of BBC non-executives to the board would undermine

:39:14. > :39:17.independence, and pointed out that all 12 of the current members of the

:39:18. > :39:23.BBC Trust were appointed by government. Us DCMS. I think is

:39:24. > :39:27.wrong. The current trust is far less powerful than the proposed unitary

:39:28. > :39:31.board which will set the BBC's editorial direction, make key

:39:32. > :39:39.decisions on programmes and even have a say on how the BBC manages

:39:40. > :39:42.news. Given these important powers to government appointees will

:39:43. > :39:46.understandably lead to accusations that we are creating a state

:39:47. > :39:52.broadcaster and not a public service broadcaster. And a bizarre situation

:39:53. > :39:57.could arise where decisions around how the BBC is reporting government

:39:58. > :40:04.policy, or the action of ministers, is being decided by people appointed

:40:05. > :40:08.by the same government, by the same minister, that simply cannot be

:40:09. > :40:12.acceptable. Channel 4 has a similar board to the one proposed to the BBC

:40:13. > :40:17.and its nonexecutive is our appointed by Ofcom and not by the

:40:18. > :40:21.government. I believe the BBC non-executives should also be

:40:22. > :40:26.appointed by an independent body, whether by Ofcom, or some other

:40:27. > :40:29.independent group. But my Lords, while the report best you'd

:40:30. > :40:32.governance, it has had a great deal to say about the scale and scope of

:40:33. > :40:38.the BBC. There has been much talk about the BBC becoming a market

:40:39. > :40:44.failure only broadcaster, filling the gaps left by other broadcasters.

:40:45. > :40:48.And of the BBC becoming significantly more distinctive. Now,

:40:49. > :40:53.I hope that in their deliberations on this issue the Government will

:40:54. > :41:01.not be influenced by the recent report on the BBC's report and use

:41:02. > :41:06.it to justify going down this particular route because I believe

:41:07. > :41:10.that the report is Ford, framing contrary to all the evidence such as

:41:11. > :41:16.Ofcom tracking data, that BBC One has become less distinctive. But the

:41:17. > :41:23.report also ignores wider public values and why the economic -- wider

:41:24. > :41:25.economic benefits to UK POC. The report looked at what revenue

:41:26. > :41:30.benefits there would be to commercial broadcasting competitors

:41:31. > :41:36.of making the BBC less popular. The revenue benefits that they came up

:41:37. > :41:44.with would be small. ?155 million that they quote which is just one

:41:45. > :41:51.quarter of last year's increase in TV advertising revenues and just a

:41:52. > :41:56.of ITV's pre-tax profits following this route, according to research

:41:57. > :42:01.done by Reuters, PWC and endless analysis, or show that it would have

:42:02. > :42:07.a negative overall impact on the wider UK media sector, let alone for

:42:08. > :42:12.UK plc, for a very small benefit to the BBC's direct competitors. I

:42:13. > :42:16.entirely reject the market failure only approach, and I'm delighted the

:42:17. > :42:20.committee came to the same conclusion. They say, as we heard

:42:21. > :42:23.from the noble Lord Lord Best, we have not heard a convincing case for

:42:24. > :42:29.a significant reduction in the scale or scope of the BBC, and the report

:42:30. > :42:35.concludes that the BBC should not be restricted to remedying apps which

:42:36. > :42:39.the market does not provide, the BBC must continue to be a universal

:42:40. > :42:46.broadcaster providing content which does not simply inform and educate,

:42:47. > :42:52.but also entertains. And in terms of inform, educate and entertain, I

:42:53. > :42:58.entirely support the committee's view is that they should be the

:42:59. > :43:00.basis of the BBC's mission and given greater progress Willey prominence.

:43:01. > :43:04.If this scale and scope of the BBC is to be maintained it needs to

:43:05. > :43:08.receive the appropriate income to achieve it, that means there should

:43:09. > :43:13.be no further top slicing of the BBC's licence fee income and no

:43:14. > :43:19.additional constraints to the BBC's commercial activities. During the

:43:20. > :43:22.Coalition Government I strongly oppose the Conservative proposals to

:43:23. > :43:27.take money from the licence fee to fund free TV licences from the

:43:28. > :43:32.over-75s. I argued that government policies should be funded by the

:43:33. > :43:35.government. I was pleased my Right Honourable friend Nick Clegg vetoed

:43:36. > :43:39.the proposals and it didn't take place. So I'm extremely disappointed

:43:40. > :43:47.that the current government has now gone ahead to the detriment of the

:43:48. > :43:51.BBC. And proposals for further top slicing, or new contestable funding,

:43:52. > :43:55.I believe should be rejected. Such proposals would mean less money for

:43:56. > :43:59.the BBC to spend on its services, create additional bureaucracy and

:44:00. > :44:02.transaction costs, it would risk transferring resources away from

:44:03. > :44:08.advertising free services, and from programmes guaranteed to have high

:44:09. > :44:15.reach and impact. It would run the risk of poor quality programming. My

:44:16. > :44:19.Lords, two thirds of BBC content spend is already contested and that

:44:20. > :44:25.figure is set to increase. There is, therefore, no case for a separate

:44:26. > :44:31.contestable top slice fund from the licence fee, nor is there any case

:44:32. > :44:36.for requiring the BBC to sell off either BBC worldwide or the BBC's

:44:37. > :44:41.stake in UK TV. Both would deprive licence fee payers of the financial

:44:42. > :44:47.and other benefits they currently receive, including funding for high

:44:48. > :44:51.quality programming. My Lords, the BBC is undoubtedly the best

:44:52. > :44:56.broadcaster in the world. And I hope in their Charter negotiations the

:44:57. > :44:58.Government will do nothing to damage that reputation. Heeding the

:44:59. > :45:03.recommendations of the excellent Select Committee report should form

:45:04. > :45:14.an important component of their deliberations, so that we do achieve

:45:15. > :45:17.Reith and not revolution. I speak as a member of the Select Committee

:45:18. > :45:24.that produced this report and must declare an interest as co-chair of

:45:25. > :45:31.the multi-faith standing conference of the BBC on religion and ethics.

:45:32. > :45:36.But also related to that work I do want to speak about the place of

:45:37. > :45:40.faith in public service broadcasting, and indeed speak for

:45:41. > :45:44.all the faith communities in these islands.

:45:45. > :45:55.It has been said that if a mission statement is more than two or three

:45:56. > :46:01.words long, it either means the organisation doesn't really know its

:46:02. > :46:09.purpose or even if it does, no one else will. Let me give you a fewer

:46:10. > :46:17.examples. Girl power, flower power, new Labour, the Big Society, I won't

:46:18. > :46:25.go on. Consequently, a mission statement, if it is to work has to

:46:26. > :46:31.be pithy and memorable. And Lord Reith's inform, educate and

:46:32. > :46:37.entertain does the job and has done the job effectively for a long time.

:46:38. > :46:46.Everyone knows it. And when the last charter renewal purpose landed the

:46:47. > :46:52.BBC with six very wordy and very worth the public purposes, it wasn't

:46:53. > :46:57.doing them a favour. As we, the committee, took evidence on these

:46:58. > :47:02.six public purposes, it was clear that people who came to talk about

:47:03. > :47:07.them didn't really know them very well themselves. I noticed that each

:47:08. > :47:11.person came with their crib sheet to remind themselves of what these

:47:12. > :47:19.purposes were about. They had clearly failed the memorability

:47:20. > :47:25.test. I also noted that these new purposes, while in some senses in

:47:26. > :47:31.possible to disagree with, the word entertain, which is surely a first

:47:32. > :47:37.base requirement for someone actually paying the license fee,

:47:38. > :47:45.didn't appear at all. Hence, the title of our report, Reith Not

:47:46. > :47:50.Revolution. As we look forward to the forthcoming Charter renewal, it

:47:51. > :47:58.is our strong view that the BBC should regroup around this historic

:47:59. > :48:05.vocation. I think we do also want to say that it is good for the BBC to

:48:06. > :48:10.be entertaining. And we do not want public service broadcasting

:48:11. > :48:16.relegated to just those bits of the output that free-market won't

:48:17. > :48:22.deliver. We are, in this country, and rightly proud of the BBC and its

:48:23. > :48:27.place in our national life. It's wider mission through the world

:48:28. > :48:34.Service and its key contribution as part of a vibrant, mixed economy of

:48:35. > :48:39.broadcasting in this country, one that is the envy of many other

:48:40. > :48:46.countries in the world. But we're not without criticism. To those

:48:47. > :48:51.three words which so admirably sum up the whole point of public service

:48:52. > :48:58.broadcasting, we are tentatively adding a fourth. Lord Best has

:48:59. > :49:01.already mentioned it, reflect. And it is to this recommendation that I

:49:02. > :49:10.would like to speak and will limit what I say. Just as the BBC is

:49:11. > :49:18.called to educate, inform and entertain the nation, surely it must

:49:19. > :49:25.reflect the nation as well. And this reflection must be more than merely

:49:26. > :49:30.regional. It is not just about sprinkling the airwaves with

:49:31. > :49:40.Yorkshire, Scouse, Essex or Scottish accents. The UK is still a family of

:49:41. > :49:45.nations and within that a network of regions each with its own culture

:49:46. > :49:53.and identity, but 21st-century Britain is also a network of

:49:54. > :50:01.communities. And many of these communities find their identity in

:50:02. > :50:07.ethnic origin and religious faith, much more than geographic location.

:50:08. > :50:14.This is certainly the case in the East End of London where I serve as

:50:15. > :50:21.a bishop, one of the most multicultural and multi-faith places

:50:22. > :50:26.in the whole of Europe. And having returned yesterday from the 16th

:50:27. > :50:32.meeting of the worldwide Anglican consultative Council where we

:50:33. > :50:38.discussed with Christians from all around the world what it means to be

:50:39. > :50:44.Christian in a world of greatest diversity and great difference, we

:50:45. > :50:49.should also remember that multi-faith and multiculturalism in

:50:50. > :50:53.Britain today also means significant Christian communities from around

:50:54. > :51:01.the world practising their faith here as well as the presence of

:51:02. > :51:09.other faith communities. Going forward, the BBC needs to work

:51:10. > :51:15.harder at being better at reflecting this new multiracial and multi-faith

:51:16. > :51:21.place of Britain. -- face of Britain. In particular, broadcasting

:51:22. > :51:30.needs to be given a much higher priority in educating, informing

:51:31. > :51:37.and, yes, entertaining us with the beauty and challenges of this

:51:38. > :51:41.diversity. However, across the public service broadcasting sector,

:51:42. > :51:46.religious broadcasting has been in decline for quite a long while.

:51:47. > :51:52.Contrary to the assumptions of a largely secular media, religion is

:51:53. > :51:57.not a Private matter, a sort of add-on to the rest of life for

:51:58. > :52:03.people who like that sort of thing. Faith is not a leisure activity.

:52:04. > :52:14.Rather, for those of us who live by faith, religious belief is essential

:52:15. > :52:18.and formation all. A prime motivator of both individuals and communities

:52:19. > :52:24.shaping their world view and inspiring and informing their

:52:25. > :52:31.political, economic, ethical and social behaviour. Our whole nation

:52:32. > :52:36.needs to wake up to this. And if the BBC is to be the broadcaster of the

:52:37. > :52:43.nation and reflect our national life, then it must do, too. This

:52:44. > :52:49.being so, it is hard to comprehend why the BBC has never appointed a

:52:50. > :52:54.religion editor in the same way that it has an editor, an interpreter for

:52:55. > :53:00.business, economics, politics, the arts, sports, etc. In July 2015,

:53:01. > :53:07.Ofcom were voicing similar misgivings, their third review of

:53:08. > :53:13.public service broadcasting identified religious broadcasting as

:53:14. > :53:18.an area of immediate concern. Now, the BBC is still the dominant

:53:19. > :53:22.provider of religious programmes and many of these are excellent and for

:53:23. > :53:30.this I give thanks, but it remains the case that the BBC downgraded the

:53:31. > :53:34.post of head of religion in January 2015 so that the post holder no

:53:35. > :53:43.longer has authority to commission programmes. Commissioning is where

:53:44. > :53:50.the power really lies. And this now sits with non-subject specialists in

:53:51. > :53:56.multi-genre commissioning, a team of history, science, business and

:53:57. > :54:00.religion. This makes strategic decisions about commissioning almost

:54:01. > :54:10.impossible to make and limit the BBC's ability to fulfil its mission.

:54:11. > :54:18.My Lords, at a time when it is nigh on impossible to understand the

:54:19. > :54:23.world and understand what is going on in the world, and understand how

:54:24. > :54:29.best to find solutions for the world so that we can live in peace, it is

:54:30. > :54:36.impossible to do this without an understanding of religion. Those who

:54:37. > :54:43.care about our democracy, as well as those who care about faith, need to

:54:44. > :54:49.press the BBC to answer this question, who has overall

:54:50. > :54:57.responsibility for the range, quantity and quality of religious

:54:58. > :55:02.programming? Since our report, also voices concerns about the downward

:55:03. > :55:09.trend in spending on current affairs, it is not difficult to see

:55:10. > :55:14.how the BBC needs to strengthen its commitment to these areas of

:55:15. > :55:21.broadcasting. Hence the expectation in our report that the BBC maintains

:55:22. > :55:23.its commitment to religious broadcasting, increases its

:55:24. > :55:28.commitments to current affairs and to the arts, and my personal hope,

:55:29. > :55:34.that this is improved upon and the following recommendation, that the

:55:35. > :55:39.BBC as the recipient of the universal licence fee needs its duty

:55:40. > :55:47.to serve all the diverse communities of the UK and that this obligation

:55:48. > :55:59.should be incorporated into any future accountability framework. My

:56:00. > :56:05.Lords, I have the very great pressure to serve on the select them

:56:06. > :56:09.committee on Communications and the distinguished chairmanship of the

:56:10. > :56:13.noble lord Lord Best and I also pay tribute to our assistance and clerks

:56:14. > :56:25.and special adviser to whom he referred. The BBC played a very

:56:26. > :56:28.important part in my life, my childhood and after that. And so I

:56:29. > :56:36.must declare that interest straightaway. Each day at 5pm while

:56:37. > :56:44.I had my tea, I listened to Children's Hour. The Reithian

:56:45. > :56:48.principles of inform, educate and entertain work, so it turned out, to

:56:49. > :56:58.be a bedrock of my formative years. My favourite was Toytown, Larry Lamb

:56:59. > :57:06.and Dennis the- town. I immediately identified with Larry the land,

:57:07. > :57:12.being a shy, mild-mannered child. I did not realise until later in my

:57:13. > :57:16.life that there are so many of these in the world, and even as I

:57:17. > :57:22.discovered, one or two in your Lordships House. I also identified

:57:23. > :57:28.with Norman Henry Bones the boy detectives. I had cousins who were

:57:29. > :57:33.very similar who were Norman and Peter who often looked after me

:57:34. > :57:39.used to let me out of the air raid shelter to see searchlights

:57:40. > :57:43.illuminate the sky and then to listen out for the drone of German

:57:44. > :57:50.bombers on their way to raid the docks at Ipswich. With one strayed,

:57:51. > :57:54.demolishing a House only three or four houses away. I will always

:57:55. > :58:01.remember my cousins wise advice, do not tell your mother, which came in

:58:02. > :58:06.handy in the years to come. On another occasion, one afternoon in

:58:07. > :58:13.the garden I noticed the sky full of planes turning gliders, it seemed

:58:14. > :58:19.ages before they passed and no one could tell me what they were. Later,

:58:20. > :58:26.however, we heard on the news that the gliders had landed at an arm as

:58:27. > :58:31.part of operation market Garden. The BBC's news was an important part of

:58:32. > :58:35.our day. My father was a soldier overseas in North Africa, Italy and

:58:36. > :58:41.then Europe, building bridges. We did not hear from him very often but

:58:42. > :58:47.the BBC will correspondence wove a narrative into which my imagination

:58:48. > :58:53.inserted my father, Winfred Lord Thomas, and others were household

:58:54. > :59:00.names with their brilliant word pictures as the wall progressed from

:59:01. > :59:09.depression to jubilation, and the theme music for plays and serials

:59:10. > :59:21.remains with me. They introduced each part of Ballet Shoes one of the

:59:22. > :59:26.superb serialised books. Who can forget the introductory music to

:59:27. > :59:38.Dick Barton's special agents? The BBC entertained us and at ten past

:59:39. > :59:42.one on Saturday, we laughed, and on Sunday, we were introduced to

:59:43. > :59:47.different communities. As they grow older, the importance of the BBC did

:59:48. > :59:52.not diminish. All children must stare at the night sky and wonder at

:59:53. > :59:58.its enormity, I certainly did, and the programme Journey Into Space

:59:59. > :00:03.promoted that wonder and stimulator to my imagination. Laughter has

:00:04. > :00:07.always been of great importance. I think it brings wisdom and good

:00:08. > :00:13.health and well-being. Laughter and the absurd is part of the groove

:00:14. > :00:24.binding us together and the feature of a civilised society. The Goon

:00:25. > :00:29.show and Hancock 's half hour work related examples of great

:00:30. > :00:33.performances, and that tradition has continued. The sad death yesterday

:00:34. > :00:38.of Victoria Wood is a reminder of a tradition which includes the likely

:00:39. > :00:46.lads, Fawlty Towers and many others. Your Lordships, will have your own

:00:47. > :00:50.favourites. The sheer brilliance of performers, producers and

:00:51. > :00:54.programmers at the BBC has brought entertainment, education and

:00:55. > :00:58.information to me in my lifetime and as we listened to the evidence in

:00:59. > :00:59.committee, I reflected on how fortunate I had

:01:00. > :01:07.been to live through times of enormous technological change such

:01:08. > :01:14.as colour TV, HDE, free view, I and so one. But where the skills of

:01:15. > :01:23.programming had maintained a very high level. Today, the quality and

:01:24. > :01:29.creativity have never been higher. The ability to market programmes

:01:30. > :01:34.such as these are worldwide provides an essential stream of income for

:01:35. > :01:38.the BBC and North 's not be tossed back must not be harmed or

:01:39. > :01:46.diminished. Wherever I go around the world I hear accolades of the BBC. I

:01:47. > :01:51.do not think we appreciate how significant this power is. There

:01:52. > :01:55.were many criticism, of course, and we met a focus group of young

:01:56. > :01:59.people, some of whom told us they thought the BBC did not represent

:02:00. > :02:04.minorities and they did not see their own lives reflected on the

:02:05. > :02:10.screen. Lord Hall for the BBC replied he was seeking to make a

:02:11. > :02:17.real difference on the any representation both on screen and

:02:18. > :02:21.behind it. We expect the BBC to honour its commitment and encourage

:02:22. > :02:27.regional development. We were impressed by Salford quays, and

:02:28. > :02:34.Birmingham and Cardiff. The BBC has become less London centric and this

:02:35. > :02:40.must continue. We did not believe the BBC should be restricted to

:02:41. > :02:45.remedying gaps for which the market does not provide, and on the

:02:46. > :02:50.contrary concluded the BBC must continue to be a universal

:02:51. > :02:54.broadcaster providing content, that also entertains.

:02:55. > :03:00.We have no evidence to support the claim that the BBC crowded out

:03:01. > :03:05.commercial competition. On the contrary we received evidence of the

:03:06. > :03:12.positive benefits of the wider discovering of developing of talent

:03:13. > :03:17.and the encouragement of training. We were not persuaded the BBC should

:03:18. > :03:22.reduce the scale or scope of its operations either in the United

:03:23. > :03:26.Kingdom or overseas. Others have described recommendations on the

:03:27. > :03:34.licence fee and Charter period with which I totally agree. My Lords, I

:03:35. > :03:41.end as I began. The BBC has played an important part in my life and it

:03:42. > :03:48.continues to do so. I was once a part-time sheep farmer and each day

:03:49. > :03:52.I begin by listening to Farming Today and having Spencer May my time

:03:53. > :03:57.here today in your lordship's house I end with today in Parliament,

:03:58. > :04:04.sometimes enraged, sometimes entertained but always a little more

:04:05. > :04:10.educated and informed. The BBC, one of our greatest assets, nothing

:04:11. > :04:15.should be done to harm it. I declare an interest as a producer

:04:16. > :04:19.and director in BBC television and I'm very grateful for the kind words

:04:20. > :04:24.that have been said about the content that my colleagues produce,

:04:25. > :04:30.we do indeed try and informed, educate and entertain. And like to

:04:31. > :04:34.congratulate the report stressing the importance of the BBC as an

:04:35. > :04:37.independent, well funded public service broadcaster. I'm pleased

:04:38. > :04:42.with the emphasis given in chapter two to the importance of strong,

:04:43. > :04:46.independent regulator for the BBC, and I too understand why the report

:04:47. > :04:54.didn't look at governance. But I like the noble Lords Lord Puttnam,

:04:55. > :04:59.Lord Foster and Lord Fowler and concerned at about the assumption in

:05:00. > :05:01.paragraph of the report about the statutory governments of the

:05:02. > :05:07.Corporation being this place. The White Paper, I understand, is

:05:08. > :05:12.proposing to set up a unitary board combining the present BBC executive

:05:13. > :05:16.board and BBC Trust regulated by Ofcom. What seems to be very

:05:17. > :05:19.important which is what the noble Lord, Lord Foster explained, was

:05:20. > :05:23.this unitary board will be more powerful than the Trust, so much

:05:24. > :05:31.more powerful than the Trust, it will control the BBC's strategy, and

:05:32. > :05:34.editorial guidance, and day-to-day broadcast of the BBC, drafting and

:05:35. > :05:39.approving editorial guidelines, maintaining editorial standards and

:05:40. > :05:43.editorial complaints unless they are appealed to Ofcom. The Trust has

:05:44. > :05:48.nowhere near such editorial influence. As a result the board of

:05:49. > :05:56.this body has got to be absolutely independent. So it can be accused to

:05:57. > :06:00.being subjected to political interference or pressure. I fear

:06:01. > :06:07.that this independence will not be safeguarded. I too was disappointed

:06:08. > :06:08.by Sir David Clementi's reports suggesting the chairman,

:06:09. > :06:17.vice-chairman and four nonexecutive directors should be appointed by the

:06:18. > :06:21.DCMS. And when I read in the Sunday Times the Culture Secretary saying

:06:22. > :06:24.ten of the 13 members of the unitary board should be appointed by the

:06:25. > :06:29.Government with only three members from the BBC, my concern about the

:06:30. > :06:33.adverse affect about the independence of the BBC was

:06:34. > :06:35.compounded by fears voiced by Sir David Norrington who retired as

:06:36. > :06:39.Commissioner for Public appointments earlier this month. He told the

:06:40. > :06:43.Financial Times this month that without the check and balance of the

:06:44. > :06:46.Liberal Democrats in government, there was a feeling by the present

:06:47. > :06:53.government that if you want to get things done you need to have people

:06:54. > :06:56.who supervises in key roles. He followed this up in his evidence to

:06:57. > :07:01.the public administration committee in he expressed concern following

:07:02. > :07:05.the Government's response to the report, that there is a threat of

:07:06. > :07:09.increased ministerial interference in the selection of public

:07:10. > :07:14.appointments. He said the appointment of the last BBC Trust

:07:15. > :07:17.chair had been well won and was free of ministerial interference.

:07:18. > :07:21.However, he warned that having seen the Government's response to the

:07:22. > :07:27.composer was, such a hands off approach might not be possible in

:07:28. > :07:31.the future. I support Lord Foster and Lord Puttnam's suggestions that

:07:32. > :07:37.they should be an independent body that will appoint the board members.

:07:38. > :07:40.If we fail to do that your Lordships only have to look at the political

:07:41. > :07:43.interference with the appointments of a sickie tips in public service

:07:44. > :07:49.broadcasters that takes place in many partner countries in the EU.

:07:50. > :07:52.Many are appointed director by the government and change when the

:07:53. > :07:57.government changes, or individual channels are controlled by separate

:07:58. > :08:02.parties. These have an influence on the political alliance of the

:08:03. > :08:06.station and means they are not impartial which I'm sure your

:08:07. > :08:11.Lordships would not want to happen. I've got an e-mail this morning from

:08:12. > :08:14.the wife of an opposition leader in Poland, who explained what was

:08:15. > :08:18.happening with the Polish broadcasters. Of course, this is not

:08:19. > :08:22.relevant to what our government proposes but it is a warning of how

:08:23. > :08:26.extremely fragile the independence of public service broadcasters is.

:08:27. > :08:29.The e-mail goes: the Polish government has dismissed the

:08:30. > :08:34.independent board which are supposed to supervise state TV, fired all of

:08:35. > :08:38.the heads of radio and TV, appointed new ones, all such appointments will

:08:39. > :08:43.now be made directly by government ministers and drastically alter the

:08:44. > :08:49.nature of programming. As a result over 100 journalists have been fired

:08:50. > :08:53.or resigned. The result, the meanest style pro-ruling party propaganda of

:08:54. > :08:58.a kind we have not seen in Poland since 1989. Of course, this is not

:08:59. > :09:08.what is going to happen here, but I would urge your Lordships to be

:09:09. > :09:14.aware of what a precious thing is the independence of the BBC. As a

:09:15. > :09:18.former editor at Newsnight I know first-hand what they will do to

:09:19. > :09:23.ensure that their view of the world is projected on the BBC. In my

:09:24. > :09:25.experience this relates to all governments of all political

:09:26. > :09:29.persuasions and I fear that we live in a world in which many people

:09:30. > :09:32.think if you are not with them you must be against them. The BBC and

:09:33. > :09:36.other broadcasters are mandated to be impartial but it's crucial that

:09:37. > :09:43.everything is done to defend that position. This reporter said

:09:44. > :09:48.impartiality is at the core of the BBC. I hope that the minister in

:09:49. > :09:52.preparing for the White Paper will listen very hard to the massive

:09:53. > :09:55.public response to the BBC public trust consultation, in which the

:09:56. > :09:58.people of this country overwhelmingly said they wanted it

:09:59. > :10:03.to be independent and free from political interference. I asked the

:10:04. > :10:07.noble lady what will be done in the White Paper to ensure this happens

:10:08. > :10:15.with the appointments to the new unitary board.

:10:16. > :10:18.My Lords, I too wish to congratulate the Select Committee communications

:10:19. > :10:22.under its excellent share Lord Best, having delivered an exemplary

:10:23. > :10:27.report, both focused in scope and wise in its conclusions, and I

:10:28. > :10:34.concur with much of what has already been said in its favour and support

:10:35. > :10:42.that. It is to be commended to all parliamentarians, especially those

:10:43. > :10:45.eager to see the BBC sold off, or simply shackled. The public, as a

:10:46. > :10:51.recent poll indicated, is not with them. The BBC remains are loved and

:10:52. > :10:55.admired institution by the great majority of those who own it, by

:10:56. > :11:01.which I mean the licence payers of this country. To act in defiance of

:11:02. > :11:06.the expressed opinions would be to damaged one of our national

:11:07. > :11:10.institutions to gratify the self interests of the commercial radio

:11:11. > :11:18.and television Enterprises. My Lords, when I interviewed Lord Reith

:11:19. > :11:25.in this house back in 1970 he was very disapproving of television. He

:11:26. > :11:32.deplored the fact they broadcast Jazz, which he regarded as the music

:11:33. > :11:34.of the devil. He had a distinct preference for educational

:11:35. > :11:39.programmes, those that instilled rigorous Christian principles and

:11:40. > :11:43.behaviour. But of course, he was then a man at the end of his life,

:11:44. > :11:49.to some extent disappointed with that life and embittered about what

:11:50. > :11:53.he had seen happen to broadcasting. But I'm still sure that the younger

:11:54. > :11:59.Reith, that vigorous young man, who pressed ahead with the exploring of

:12:00. > :12:03.television's possibilities in the 1930s in order to be ahead of the

:12:04. > :12:11.Americans, as he said, that he was the defy of government interference,

:12:12. > :12:15.turning away Churchill's emissaries at the time of the national strike.

:12:16. > :12:20.He would be proud of the leading role the BBC plays in sustaining

:12:21. > :12:25.standards in promoting British interests and influence around the

:12:26. > :12:33.globe, and in not having commercial breaks. Lord Reith managed to sum up

:12:34. > :12:41.as we have heard the purpose of the BBC in just one phrase. It can

:12:42. > :12:45.scarcely be better to inform, educate and entertain. Terse, as my

:12:46. > :12:51.Lord Bishop has said, and exact. I did not think it could be improved.

:12:52. > :12:55.However, the suggestion the phrase, and to reflect, by a single word

:12:56. > :13:03.encompasses and enlarges the remit of the BBC, appropriate to the

:13:04. > :13:08.Times, is to be commended. The committee's recommendations covered

:13:09. > :13:12.much but I would just speak to two of them. Having worked within the

:13:13. > :13:18.BBC throughout numerous licence renewal occasions, I know that the

:13:19. > :13:23.prospect throws BBC management into a distracted frenzy of concern.

:13:24. > :13:29.Licence renewal casts a long shadow, distorting the focus and

:13:30. > :13:37.concentration of its managers, heads of Department, channel controllers,

:13:38. > :13:41.and even programme makers. It is an ordeal that lasts years, and when

:13:42. > :13:44.the licence is finally renewed, everyone sits back sighing with

:13:45. > :13:55.relief that the negotiations have gone away for, well, for how long?

:13:56. > :13:58.For a good few years. My Lord, this frenzy is even worse around the time

:13:59. > :14:04.of elections, whether elections are coming up, whether they are just

:14:05. > :14:09.over. Both leading parties, indeed all parties, blame the BBC for the

:14:10. > :14:16.supposed broadcasting bias that robbed them of victory, or even

:14:17. > :14:21.greater success. They can't all be right, but it is a matter of blaming

:14:22. > :14:28.the messenger. And it makes for a climate of resentment and revenge

:14:29. > :14:30.that is no mood in which to address serious and thoughtful

:14:31. > :14:34.considerations over the BBC's future. My Lords, for this reason,

:14:35. > :14:38.for these reasons, I support the committee's recommendations that the

:14:39. > :14:43.Charter only come up for renewal every ten years, and that it is on

:14:44. > :14:51.coupled from that deadly electoral cycle. I think the recommendation is

:14:52. > :14:57.sound and wise and it would allow for considering long-term planning

:14:58. > :15:00.which in the global media world means precise marketing knowledge,

:15:01. > :15:05.and a sense of the rhythm of change to which this industry is subject.

:15:06. > :15:12.The second concern of the committee which I wish to address is this

:15:13. > :15:16.matter of scale and scope. There have been suggestions, mainly from

:15:17. > :15:20.other broadcasting bodies, that the BBC should be limited within its

:15:21. > :15:27.scope, possibly confining itself to the news and current affairs, Sirius

:15:28. > :15:32.documentaries, education, all areas of broadcasting which attract low

:15:33. > :15:35.viewing figures. And therefore they are not prise pickings for

:15:36. > :15:43.commercial companies. This is clearly a pitched to cut the BBC

:15:44. > :15:47.down to size. It would be disastrous for the BBC as a global player. It

:15:48. > :15:51.is essential that its creative heart line is given scope to be inventive

:15:52. > :15:58.across the whole area of human activity. That's where it's genius

:15:59. > :16:04.lies. What other company would have backed a modest idea to encourage

:16:05. > :16:10.people to bake cakes and see it grow into a global format? And once it

:16:11. > :16:16.was successful would such a format be declared beyond the BBC's scope?

:16:17. > :16:26.What happens now? The whole concept is flawed and unworkable. My Lords,

:16:27. > :16:28.the BBC faces change and needs to change. The media landscape is

:16:29. > :16:34.always shifting and it needs the backing of government and of the

:16:35. > :16:36.industry to continue as the flagship of broadcasting it is known to be

:16:37. > :16:46.worldwide. I have only been in your lordship's

:16:47. > :16:50.has 452 years but are used to do media research and I am only hairy

:16:51. > :16:52.Lee I think because of my grandfather. -- I am only here,

:16:53. > :17:09.really. With recommendations as to the

:17:10. > :17:17.conditions under which such services should be offered. Results, the

:17:18. > :17:24.Selsdon report. I had never heard of that, because I wasn't sure why I

:17:25. > :17:27.had a different name from my father. I did do media research quite

:17:28. > :17:35.thoroughly over a period of time and at home we were only allowed to

:17:36. > :17:41.listen to the BBC. In fact, everyone else was bound, including in the

:17:42. > :17:45.early days of television. It was in May 1934 that the government first

:17:46. > :17:49.appointed a committee under the guidance of my grandfather to begin

:17:50. > :17:53.enquiries into the viability of setting up a public television

:17:54. > :17:58.service with recommendations as to the conditions under which the

:17:59. > :18:03.service should be offered. My Lords, I have a tremendous affection for

:18:04. > :18:09.the BBC. I cannot help it. In the days when I did media research, we

:18:10. > :18:13.tended to be influenced ourselves mainly by characters. My Lords, here

:18:14. > :18:17.in your lordship's House, we have a remarkable depth of knowledge and

:18:18. > :18:25.experience but we don't necessarily know each other. There was, and

:18:26. > :18:33.there still is, a BBC advisory Council which goes on and on but the

:18:34. > :18:38.BBC is a global institution, it is not a British institution. If you

:18:39. > :18:41.have been in parts of Africa where in order to encourage local

:18:42. > :18:47.communities to come operate in mind mining or things like that, you hand

:18:48. > :18:52.out the radio to work or they may listen to the BBC, you realise the

:18:53. > :18:59.extent of its coverage and the respect in which it is held. What it

:19:00. > :19:10.does is another matter. With television, it is a fairly fickle

:19:11. > :19:14.and -- difficult matter. We don't have necessarily the media research

:19:15. > :19:20.and depth of marketing that one would expect on a global basis. I do

:19:21. > :19:23.not see why there should not be a special relationship with every

:19:24. > :19:28.Commonwealth country to be able to broadcast programmes daily and

:19:29. > :19:33.constantly write a way around the world, the technology is all ready

:19:34. > :19:39.there and the expertise remains. My Lords, I would like to make a simple

:19:40. > :19:44.suggestion, we need to have a programme, a business plan that we

:19:45. > :19:48.will look at the BBC. I know I am hearing entirely because of my

:19:49. > :19:54.grandfather, I know that I was never allowed to listen to any programme

:19:55. > :20:00.that was not BBC. They couldn't, however, teach me languages. I was

:20:01. > :20:05.sent off to various countries. With that type of respect, I find myself

:20:06. > :20:07.unable to be of much assistance to your Lordships today. However, what

:20:08. > :20:16.I would like the government to give a little bit more attention

:20:17. > :20:21.that in developing Britain British relationships, the BBC could play a

:20:22. > :20:24.more important role than it does today, not least on television and

:20:25. > :20:29.production and syndication of programmes right the way across the

:20:30. > :20:31.world including its value in the learning of English. So waste it

:20:32. > :20:38.down and say thank you to your Lordships will come in here today. I

:20:39. > :20:41.am so surprised that I find out more about myself than I deemed possible

:20:42. > :20:45.and wondered why my grandfather had never told me anything about it and

:20:46. > :20:50.why I was never allowed to watch television until they reached a

:20:51. > :20:54.certain age. I wish the BBC well, I have a great affection for it and

:20:55. > :20:59.that will remain with me until I die. First of all, may I

:21:00. > :21:06.congratulate the noble lord Lord vessel securing this debate at a

:21:07. > :21:15.particularly timely moment. -- Lord best. There is so much I agree with,

:21:16. > :21:22.but if I were to talk about it I would just take, take. In this

:21:23. > :21:26.debate I hope there is room to proceed, to see the BBC not so much

:21:27. > :21:32.through the prism of the review, though that has been mother sleep

:21:33. > :21:41.addressed by previous speakers in detail -- marvellously. But from the

:21:42. > :21:47.general point of view of someone who works with it, as I do, he began his

:21:48. > :21:55.career there in 1961 as a trainee, who listened to the radio in the 40s

:21:56. > :22:02.and in a sense was, if I may use the word, suckled by it and I believe it

:22:03. > :22:06.is a unique force for excellence and cohesion in this country. Currently,

:22:07. > :22:20.the BBC is on tremendous form. Its recent dramas and art pulling off

:22:21. > :22:25.hype ratings and high praise. They have got three out of three so far

:22:26. > :22:30.and it is only April. In the end, the BBC is the sum of its

:22:31. > :22:36.programmes. Panorama row gram on the Panama set up boldly set up the

:22:37. > :22:40.context for a continuing debate. Newsnight had the nerve to bite the

:22:41. > :22:46.hand that feeds all could starve it and has wounded it already with its

:22:47. > :22:56.pees on Mr Whittingdale. The news struggles with impartiality and

:22:57. > :23:07.balancing some arguments that it is still walking the tightrope

:23:08. > :23:11.admirably. Above the noise, there is the even beat of the five national

:23:12. > :23:15.and many regional radio channels that perhaps more than any

:23:16. > :23:20.productions, best represent the muscle, pulse and the mind of this

:23:21. > :23:29.nation. Wherever there are debates on the BBC, as we mentioned, and I

:23:30. > :23:34.have taken part in many dozen, always, there is a wholly convincing

:23:35. > :23:40.majority for supporting BBBC. I see no demonstrations about the BBC in

:23:41. > :23:45.our streets, where in our country there would be demonstrations about

:23:46. > :23:51.the removal of a bus stop. It encourages a multitude of writers,

:23:52. > :23:55.actors, producers, directors, talent in radio and television which is the

:23:56. > :23:58.cornerstone of the cultural power that this country undoubtedly has at

:23:59. > :24:09.the moment and no other country has it. It is comparatively inexpensive

:24:10. > :24:13.and works magnificently and delivers for this country and is still

:24:14. > :24:18.recognisably inside the discipline of Lord Reith. But we seem to exist

:24:19. > :24:22.in an atmosphere of permanent crisis about the future of the BBC. From

:24:23. > :24:34.the government and also from parts of the media as if it were a

:24:35. > :24:45.patient. Most averse to not see what the fuss is about. -- most of us.

:24:46. > :24:49.Some grievances need to be addressed, such as the Imperial

:24:50. > :24:53.growth of the BBC disturbs the unsubsidised parts of our economy

:24:54. > :25:03.and the BBC is right to be much more aware of it more than ever before.

:25:04. > :25:10.The BBC is so fast in its output that it is not too difficult to pick

:25:11. > :25:15.up or embellish stories, and ensure in certain knowledge that the

:25:16. > :25:22.compelling letters BBC will draw readers attention to the content of

:25:23. > :25:26.that story. It is at once a national treasure and a national dartboard, a

:25:27. > :25:34.dual role. It is argued by some the BBC's fundamental similarity, or

:25:35. > :25:42.peculiarity, is an affront to the prevailing capitalism of the day,

:25:43. > :25:45.and in some ways it does interfere. All, it is a stimulator in

:25:46. > :25:48.alternative, adding to the variety of this country, it's richness,

:25:49. > :26:08.oppositional argument. It furthers the roles of others,

:26:09. > :26:16.tempers and enriches with the competition of the BBC. This country

:26:17. > :26:25.is and always has been, a place of tribes. Ethnically different,

:26:26. > :26:31.culturally diverse. In Ireland -- Islands bounded by and bonded by the

:26:32. > :26:35.seas. Many have tried and failed to reach out to all jostling, sometimes

:26:36. > :26:39.rival groups, over the centuries and through democracy we have finally

:26:40. > :26:46.arrived at April double though fragile method of inclusion. BBBC's

:26:47. > :26:54.democratic inclusiveness is not only a strength, it is its purpose. We

:26:55. > :26:59.want the best in our society and despite catcalls from the galleries,

:27:00. > :27:05.several of our institutions try and can succeed in bringing together the

:27:06. > :27:10.existing and new tribes. The BBC does what it does with style and

:27:11. > :27:15.consistency and force, bringing together majorities and minorities

:27:16. > :27:19.watching the same programmes or live events. Most of all, the BBC is a

:27:20. > :27:24.statement of public service, that phrase has seen its meaning weakened

:27:25. > :27:42.over the years. Pro bono publico has not gone away,

:27:43. > :27:47.millions of people in this country is still alive to it, still working

:27:48. > :27:51.by it, still believing that to work is one thing and to serve the public

:27:52. > :27:54.is another and they needn't be separate. You could say that

:27:55. > :27:59.especially today that we see the monarchy under Her Majesty Queen

:28:00. > :28:05.Elizabeth II as a symbol of public service and the admiration, even

:28:06. > :28:08.reference, is to do with the palpable sense of service to the

:28:09. > :28:13.public. The BBC still remains despite its gas, being treated by

:28:14. > :28:21.the government as it cash cow for social policies, a symbol this

:28:22. > :28:25.country craves. People want to return to what they think of us

:28:26. > :28:33.living properly. What Orwell called the decency of these people. Of

:28:34. > :28:37.course, this includes us. We have to create wealth, make a living and

:28:38. > :28:43.constructor complexes sired two bit wheels are needed in element of

:28:44. > :28:51.something else, perhaps the word better might serve.

:28:52. > :28:58.But is it unfettered by the demands of making and getting? Independent

:28:59. > :29:02.and the name of all of us without which we would be so much poorer and

:29:03. > :29:06.it would be so much less of a place. If it is chipped away as the BBC is

:29:07. > :29:10.chipped away, as some people out there want it to be chipped away, we

:29:11. > :29:13.will be much less and we will have lost what has been so strenuously

:29:14. > :29:18.built-up, cherished and loved over many decades, that is something

:29:19. > :29:27.unique something which Lord Best said at the beginning of this

:29:28. > :29:30.debate, we can be, and are, proud. My Lords, like Olmo bull Lords who

:29:31. > :29:38.have spoken so far in the debate, I congratulate Lord Best and his

:29:39. > :29:41.committee -- like all noble Lords. On his excellent report. Continuing

:29:42. > :29:45.uncertainty about the Government's plans is very harmful to the BBC and

:29:46. > :29:51.to the public interest. The continual uncertainty at the

:29:52. > :29:56.Government's dumping of the cost of free licensing for the over-75s on

:29:57. > :30:03.the BBC rather than taxpayers have undermined morale within the BBC, as

:30:04. > :30:09.well as public trust and confidence. The Dominant is likely to replace

:30:10. > :30:13.the BBC Trust with a new unitary board as recommended by Sir David

:30:14. > :30:17.Clementi. The new board will have executive functions relating to the

:30:18. > :30:22.content of its broadcasts. That makes it essential that the chair,

:30:23. > :30:30.deputy chair, and other members of the board are independent and

:30:31. > :30:32.manifestly seem to be independent. It is essential they are

:30:33. > :30:40.independently appointed without ministerial influence. Lord Hall has

:30:41. > :30:45.rightly said that the BBC needs regulation that is effective but not

:30:46. > :30:50.prescriptive. He's emphasised the importance of protecting the BBC's

:30:51. > :30:55.independence, recalling that Willie Whitelaw gave the BBC a 15 year

:30:56. > :31:03.Charter. The Government should follow that example for the next 11

:31:04. > :31:09.years. What we call a Royal Charter is really a ministerial Charter.

:31:10. > :31:12.It's a Charter shaped by ministers using the prerogative powers

:31:13. > :31:18.inherited from the Crown. We speak of Parliamentary sovereignty as the

:31:19. > :31:21.cornerstone of the British constitution, but it is ministers

:31:22. > :31:27.and not Parliament that determine the scope and effect of the Charter.

:31:28. > :31:32.There are no overarching binding principles approved by parliament,

:31:33. > :31:38.but ministers for the BBC must respect. As Lord Birt, former

:31:39. > :31:44.director-general and television journalist said during the debate on

:31:45. > :31:50.the 10th of March, a Royal Charter, far from being a powerful symbol and

:31:51. > :31:57.safeguard of the BBC's independence, on the contrary, it enables

:31:58. > :32:00.governments to be less countable van even medieval kings. To amend the

:32:01. > :32:07.Charter through the Privy Council and to inflict unprincipled and

:32:08. > :32:14.material change on the BBC. -- accountable than even. It is time to

:32:15. > :32:20.place the BBC on a statutory footing. My Lords, Lord Fowler, on

:32:21. > :32:25.whose most powerful speech I congratulate him, Lord Fowler and

:32:26. > :32:32.Lord Inglewood, another former chair of the communications committee,

:32:33. > :32:38.have suggested that the Charter is an anomaly that should be replaced

:32:39. > :32:42.by legislation, much as Channel 4. But it is inconceivable, as the

:32:43. > :32:49.Minister will confirm, that the present government would agree to

:32:50. > :32:55.dispense with the Charter. In truth, the choice is not only a binary

:32:56. > :32:59.choice between legislation and Charter, a statute could and should

:33:00. > :33:03.set out the governing principles protecting the independence and

:33:04. > :33:09.effectiveness of the BBC as public service broadcaster, and the core

:33:10. > :33:13.duties of the BBC and of the Secretary of State. It should make

:33:14. > :33:20.the Charter and Charter changes subject to approval by both Houses

:33:21. > :33:24.of Parliament. In that way the BBC's independence would be protected

:33:25. > :33:30.against political interference. So, as others have indicated, I'm

:33:31. > :33:34.fashioning a bill to provide a framework of core principles and

:33:35. > :33:37.duties governing ministers and the BBC, and the Charter and its

:33:38. > :33:44.renewal, while leaving the detail to be covered in the Charter and the

:33:45. > :33:49.accompanying agreement. I hope it will have support in Parliament and

:33:50. > :33:54.Whitehall. Several noble Lords who can't be here today have authorised

:33:55. > :34:02.me to indicate their support including Lord Inglewood and Lord

:34:03. > :34:05.Pannick. My Lords, the bill will provide for the BBC to be a

:34:06. > :34:12.statutory Corporation, established by Royal Charter, but subject to the

:34:13. > :34:18.bill's criteria. The bill will underpin the BBC's duty as public

:34:19. > :34:21.service broadcaster to serve the public interest by informing,

:34:22. > :34:26.educating and entertaining the people of the United Kingdom,

:34:27. > :34:29.including its nations, regions or communities by means of television,

:34:30. > :34:35.radio, online services and other similar services. It's important for

:34:36. > :34:39.the BBC and nobody else to define the scope of public service

:34:40. > :34:43.broadcasting and its limits. The bill will protect the BBC's

:34:44. > :34:50.independence as regards the content of its output, The Times and manner

:34:51. > :34:54.at which the output is supplied and the governance and management of its

:34:55. > :34:58.affairs. The Secretary of State, other ministers of the Crown, the

:34:59. > :35:02.BBC and anyone else with a responsibility for the BBC's

:35:03. > :35:06.governance will have a duty to ensure that the BBC is able to

:35:07. > :35:12.operate independently from ministers and other public authorities in the

:35:13. > :35:17.United Kingdom. The Secretary of State will be required to make

:35:18. > :35:22.available to the BBC sufficient funds to enable the BBC to perform

:35:23. > :35:27.its functions to promote public purposes as a public service

:35:28. > :35:32.broadcaster. The licence fee must be for the exclusive use of the BBC in

:35:33. > :35:40.performing those functions. It will be indexed linked and increased at

:35:41. > :35:46.least against inflation. The BBC's funding must be protected against

:35:47. > :35:50.top slicing, as happened for example under the current licence fee deal

:35:51. > :35:56.with ?115 million per year is diverted from the licence fee to

:35:57. > :35:59.subsidise BT's broadband roll-out. The Secretary of State will not be

:36:00. > :36:04.able to transfer public expenditure to the BBC. If ministers and future

:36:05. > :36:11.ministers want to change this they will have to persuade Parliament to

:36:12. > :36:16.legislate my Lords, the BBC's use of the licence fee carries

:36:17. > :36:19.responsibilities but those are matters not for the Government but

:36:20. > :36:26.for the new board and senior staff and regulator. Under my build there

:36:27. > :36:30.will be an independent external regulator, whether Ofcom or

:36:31. > :36:35.otherwise to oversee the performance of the BBC's duties as public

:36:36. > :36:40.service broadcaster, including any increase above inflation in the

:36:41. > :36:45.licence fee. The Secretary of State and other ministers will be

:36:46. > :36:49.forbidden to seek to influence the BBC's decisions will stop the

:36:50. > :36:54.Secretary of State will be required to have regard to the need to defend

:36:55. > :36:58.the BBC's independence, the need for the BBC to have the financial and

:36:59. > :37:03.non-financial support needed to enable it to exercise its functions

:37:04. > :37:07.and the need for the public interest to be considered in regard to

:37:08. > :37:12.matters relating to the BBC. An independent board of I suggest not

:37:13. > :37:18.more than 40 members, including the chair and deputy chair, will govern

:37:19. > :37:23.the BBC -- 14 members. They should be people with skill, knowledge and

:37:24. > :37:27.experience needed to perform the functions as public service

:37:28. > :37:31.broadcaster. Members should be drawn from across the nations and regions

:37:32. > :37:37.of the United Kingdom, including the BBC licence fee's payers and present

:37:38. > :37:42.and former members of staff. Crucially, they must not be

:37:43. > :37:45.political appointments, but must be appointed by an independent

:37:46. > :37:49.appointments committee established by the Commissioner for Public

:37:50. > :37:53.appointments. The board will be required to carry out its duties in

:37:54. > :37:59.an open and transparent manner. The Royal Charter and any amendments to

:38:00. > :38:05.the Charter will not have effect or be granted, unless the draft or

:38:06. > :38:11.amendment has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each

:38:12. > :38:16.house of Parliament. My Lords, for the last six years the BBC has seen

:38:17. > :38:21.no increase in its funding from the licence fee so it has had to make

:38:22. > :38:26.millions of pounds of cuts in its services and staff. But reforms are

:38:27. > :38:32.needed and reforms are being made. The number of managers remains far

:38:33. > :38:39.too high in spite of commitments to reduce their ranks by 1000. The BBC

:38:40. > :38:45.must not operate from an ivory tower broadcasting to an intellectual

:38:46. > :38:47.elite. But the BBC has become overblown and top-heavy, and

:38:48. > :38:53.involved in commercial projects that could be left to others. Again,

:38:54. > :38:58.these are matters for the board and the senior staff and the regulator

:38:59. > :39:03.to address, not for government. My Lords, the public enthusiastically

:39:04. > :39:08.trust the BBC, as we have said in this debate repeatedly, and

:39:09. > :39:15.appreciates the public service it provides. The BBC staff do their

:39:16. > :39:19.best to deliver a first class and balanced public service despite the

:39:20. > :39:25.worsening financial pressures. This government has dumped more than ?600

:39:26. > :39:28.million in public spending on to the BBC by transferring the cost of

:39:29. > :39:33.licence fees for the over-75s. This makes the BBC carry the burden of

:39:34. > :39:39.fulfilling part of the Government's welfare policy. The BBC is now faced

:39:40. > :39:43.with serious threat of the new unitary board that is appointed

:39:44. > :39:49.politically by ministers and may influence content. My Lords, as

:39:50. > :39:54.several of my Lords have said, the BBC is a national treasure that

:39:55. > :39:59.could easily be harmed by government interference. We all want to ensure

:40:00. > :40:04.the independence of the BBC so that it pursues the Reithian principles

:40:05. > :40:09.that have made it the most respected broadcaster in the world. I hope

:40:10. > :40:13.that the government will accept the need for a properly funded BBC that

:40:14. > :40:19.is independent and free from political interference, and is able

:40:20. > :40:25.with its guaranteed income to produce impartial, high-quality

:40:26. > :40:32.programming that is envied over the world. That's what my bill will seek

:40:33. > :40:37.to safeguard. But, my Lords, ultimately it is the public, to coin

:40:38. > :40:46.a phrase, that must fight and fight and fight again for the BBC they

:40:47. > :40:56.loaf. -- they love. My Lords, and delighted to take part in this

:40:57. > :40:59.debate on the report aptly named Reith Not Revolution and I thank

:41:00. > :41:04.Lord Best for his excellent and diligent chairmanship. As many noble

:41:05. > :41:08.Lords have already made clear it is essential the BBC remains the

:41:09. > :41:14.keystone of British broadcasting and continues to play a central role in

:41:15. > :41:17.the wider creative industries. The BBC must maintain its reputation for

:41:18. > :41:22.quality and independence throughout the world. This is only possible

:41:23. > :41:26.with the continued support from government in keeping with the

:41:27. > :41:29.overwhelming wishes of the British public apparent from the DCMS's

:41:30. > :41:34.consultation sponsor summary published in March this year.

:41:35. > :41:38.Findings showed that the public do value the BBC and believe it

:41:39. > :41:46.produces high and distinctive content and wants it to remain

:41:47. > :41:51.independent. But as in our report, concern was voiced that the BBC

:41:52. > :41:54.falls short for some viewers such as reaching black, Asian and ethnic

:41:55. > :41:59.minority and young audiences and presenting the lives of people in

:42:00. > :42:04.the UK's nations and regions. Just to highlight how important the BBC

:42:05. > :42:10.is for the country it's worth stating that BBC services reach 97%

:42:11. > :42:18.of the UK population every week with an average of around 8.5 hours of TV

:42:19. > :42:27.and over ten hours of BBC radio per head. For ?145.50 per year audiences

:42:28. > :42:30.have provided nine national TV channels, ten national radio

:42:31. > :42:36.channels, 39 local radio stations and a wealth of online and mobile

:42:37. > :42:43.services including BBC Three, iPlayer and bbc.co.uk. But as our

:42:44. > :42:49.report says, the committee has high expectations for the BBC than of

:42:50. > :42:51.other public broadcasters. The BBC must play its part by reaffirming

:42:52. > :42:57.the Reithian principles to inform, educate and entertain, and also to

:42:58. > :43:00.reflect better the society we live in as other noble Lords have

:43:01. > :43:06.mentioned. The BBC should make a particular commitment to reflect the

:43:07. > :43:12.nation's regions and all the diverse communities of the UK. The BBC has

:43:13. > :43:15.unique obligations to its audiences Aggers it is established by Royal

:43:16. > :43:20.Charter, no matter how controversial that is today and dispensable source

:43:21. > :43:24.of funding is universal licence fee. It must set the gold standard

:43:25. > :43:27.amongst the public service broadcasters and thereby remain one

:43:28. > :43:32.of the nation's most treasured institutions.

:43:33. > :43:39.In a paid is that the BBC recognises the attitude be held firmly to

:43:40. > :43:43.account by licence fee payers, Parliament and by the new regulator,

:43:44. > :43:51.but it is also imperative that the BBC must retain its creative and

:43:52. > :43:56.editorial freedom to react to the highly competitive media market and

:43:57. > :44:01.social conditions. That is why our report wants to see the BBC better

:44:02. > :44:07.reflect UK society in all its diversity. We were concerned to

:44:08. > :44:10.hear, and I quote, from a number of witnesses who felt the BBC did not

:44:11. > :44:14.reflect their lives, particularly from the panel of young people,

:44:15. > :44:21.those with a disability and those from with in the BAe -- B M A

:44:22. > :44:28.community. The BBC has recognised this and we expect to see an

:44:29. > :44:31.improvement in this. The head of diversity and inclusion at the BBC

:44:32. > :44:38.said, we all want to get the same result. The BBC where all our

:44:39. > :44:42.audiences can see their lives then took leave portrayed by all our

:44:43. > :44:49.programmes, where our programmes are made from a diverse group of people

:44:50. > :44:59.and where your background, what ever it is, is no bearing on your

:45:00. > :45:07.opportunity to have a career here. The proportion of black, Asian and

:45:08. > :45:16.female workforce is at an all-time high. I welcome the independent

:45:17. > :45:21.group, including the noble Baroness, Lady Taney Grey Thompson, who will

:45:22. > :45:28.continue to hold the BBC to account. Likewise, it is good to see the new

:45:29. > :45:37.BBC Academy in Birmingham which aims to attract the best talent from all

:45:38. > :45:44.over the UK. It extended recruitment which tries to recruit people from

:45:45. > :45:54.the disabled background has reached 628 people in the time it has been

:45:55. > :46:07.running. Last year, the BBC launched a programme to try to develop young

:46:08. > :46:12.BMAE talent and those who reached the end of the programme were first

:46:13. > :46:20.tracked -- fast tracked into a training role. I hope that it will

:46:21. > :46:34.successfully meet its targets to successfully employed more BME

:46:35. > :46:42.people by 2017. It is also important to improve on-air portrayal. The BBC

:46:43. > :46:53.recognises this with its hope to increase portrayal of BMAE by three

:46:54. > :46:59.extra percent to 17% by 2017. They are also trying to increase the

:47:00. > :47:11.number of disabled people on screen. I hope that a new documentary,

:47:12. > :47:15.bringing Juliet into the 21st-century, recasting her for

:47:16. > :47:21.today's diverse society, which will have lots of disabled actors and

:47:22. > :47:28.actresses with in it will be a trailblazer for that. The a word is

:47:29. > :47:39.described as a brilliant description of family life and is also blazing a

:47:40. > :47:45.trail. Other ground-breaking programmes are also out there. I

:47:46. > :47:51.hope the BBC will continue to reflect a modern Britain, ensuring

:47:52. > :47:57.it remains pertinent to the young, as well as the rest of its audience,

:47:58. > :48:02.and maintains its vital role within our nation. I'm sure the BBC can

:48:03. > :48:08.have a vital feature and there is no scope for the Government to reduce

:48:09. > :48:16.its scope. I hope the charter renewal process will prove an

:48:17. > :48:26.opportunity to refresh but not fracture the BBC. I rise with some

:48:27. > :48:33.trepidation as the register of interests notes I am a trustee of

:48:34. > :48:38.the BBC, that much maligned species. You might ask why I joined the BBC

:48:39. > :48:45.trust. I did so because the BBC has always been important in my life and

:48:46. > :48:49.my career. Indeed, I worked in that iconic building, Bush house, as a

:48:50. > :48:56.journalist and editor for the World Service for some eight years from

:48:57. > :49:01.1984 to 1992. They're after, I left the BBC to work for the United

:49:02. > :49:06.Nations and served for many years in Cambodia, the Balkans and the Middle

:49:07. > :49:12.East. During those years, the BBC was vitally important for me. Far

:49:13. > :49:18.more important than that, I saw that it was so critically important for

:49:19. > :49:24.the people with whom I worked in those countries. I worked for Kofi

:49:25. > :49:30.and man, the former Secretary General of the UN, who once famously

:49:31. > :49:35.described the BBC as Britain's greatest contribution to the world

:49:36. > :49:39.in the 20th-century. The World Service has been able to make that

:49:40. > :49:44.enormous contribution because it is part of the wider BBC which has,

:49:45. > :49:51.over the past 90 years, done so much to inform, educate and entertain, in

:49:52. > :49:59.the words of the great John Reid, one of the greatest public servants

:50:00. > :50:09.this country has ever produced. -- Reith. At the outset, I believe

:50:10. > :50:15.there can be no argument that the BBC is one of the greatest

:50:16. > :50:22.organisations in the world. This year marks the 400th birthday of one

:50:23. > :50:26.of our greatest writers, William Shakespeare, and the BBC will be

:50:27. > :50:30.marking that with a programme which brings together the Royal

:50:31. > :50:35.Shakespeare Company, say Ian McKellen, Judi Dench and the Royal

:50:36. > :50:41.Ballet in a televised event to honour the birthday of the national

:50:42. > :50:45.bard. It is typical of what our great public broadcaster can do at

:50:46. > :50:50.its best, bringing together our finest cultural institutions and

:50:51. > :50:57.stars and broadcast, nationwide, as well as internationally, to the

:50:58. > :51:00.widest possible audience. The very concept of public service

:51:01. > :51:07.broadcasting was pioneered here in Britain by the BBC. We should be

:51:08. > :51:17.immensely proud of that. From 1932, the BBC began to broadcast globally,

:51:18. > :51:20.first in English and then, in 1938, interestingly, in Arabic, on either

:51:21. > :51:23.of the Second World War. Sadly the need for broadcasting in that

:51:24. > :51:31.language is as great now as it was then. I believe that the journalism

:51:32. > :51:36.at the BBC goes from strength to strength under the leadership of

:51:37. > :51:39.James Harding, the editor of the News Department. Recently, I saw an

:51:40. > :51:46.extraordinary report on the ten o'clock News, the News at ten, from

:51:47. > :51:55.Alistair Lee's head in Nigeria, looking at the horrible movement of

:51:56. > :52:06.Boca Rampe, the mystery of the 200 girls who were kidnapped by that

:52:07. > :52:16.bile group. I can't think of another broadcaster who would have given

:52:17. > :52:21.prime-time coverage to that group and its horrible work. My Lords, I

:52:22. > :52:25.congratulate Lord Best and his committee for producing an excellent

:52:26. > :52:29.report that has informed this debate on an institution which is national

:52:30. > :52:34.as well as international. At a time when our international presence is

:52:35. > :52:40.diminishing, when much of the world watches with amazement at our

:52:41. > :52:44.pending referendum, we can ill afford to see the BBC retreat. I

:52:45. > :52:51.commend the Government for the extra funds it has put at the use of the

:52:52. > :52:56.BBC in 2015, four African languages and for the establishment of the

:52:57. > :53:03.Korean service, so long championed by the noble lord. Also for the

:53:04. > :53:11.encouragement and further meant of the Arabic and Farsi wing of the

:53:12. > :53:14.BBC. This is the year of charter renewal and I hope it is not marred

:53:15. > :53:22.by the cuts would have been inflicted on public broadcasters in

:53:23. > :53:28.Canada and Australia in recent years. I would submit that that is

:53:29. > :53:33.not a path we want to see the BBC go down. The BBC can ill afford to see

:53:34. > :53:39.any more surprises from Government of the sort meted out by the

:53:40. > :53:45.Chancellor last year. As a result of that step, as many of the Lords in

:53:46. > :53:52.this House have noticed, the BBC has had to take responsibility for the

:53:53. > :53:55.free licenses for the over 75 is introduced by the Labour Government

:53:56. > :54:01.led by Gordon Brown. There should be no more acts of this order. The BBC

:54:02. > :54:05.is not a state broadcaster. It is for governments to decide

:54:06. > :54:13.appropriate levels of social welfare for the elderly and to accept the

:54:14. > :54:18.cost and not pass them the BBC. Assurance in that respect from the

:54:19. > :54:23.Minister would be most welcome and that there will be no similar

:54:24. > :54:29.action. Turning to Lord Best's report, I, like other members of the

:54:30. > :54:35.trust, welcomed the suggestion that there should be an 11 year charter,

:54:36. > :54:42.an 11 year charter which I think is vital to detach the process from the

:54:43. > :54:48.electoral cycle, that should be obvious to us all. The need for an

:54:49. > :54:55.independent regulator to set the level of the license the and an end

:54:56. > :55:01.to the top slicing of the license the or any kind of contestable fund

:55:02. > :55:06.paid for by the license the pages. The importance of the BBC's

:55:07. > :55:12.independence, financial, editorial and operational, comes through so

:55:13. > :55:17.strongly in this report. This independence is vital for the future

:55:18. > :55:21.of the BBC and it matters crucially to the license payers. Following the

:55:22. > :55:26.publication of the Green paper on the charter review in July 2015, the

:55:27. > :55:31.trust launched its own consultation for members of the public to have

:55:32. > :55:36.their say on the future of the BBC. Alongside this, the trust

:55:37. > :55:42.commissioned qualitative and quantitative research to examine

:55:43. > :55:48.issues in greater depth. That consultation found that nine in ten,

:55:49. > :55:53.some 88% of respondents, felt that it was important that the BBC remain

:55:54. > :55:58.independent and a large majority, 79%, that that it was very

:55:59. > :56:05.important. Let me make three critical points. The BBC's financial

:56:06. > :56:11.independence, that is absolutely imperative to the organisation's

:56:12. > :56:16.feature. Future funding periods should, I believe, be funded for no

:56:17. > :56:25.less than six years to provide certainty for planning. Licence fee

:56:26. > :56:29.monies should be dedicated to BBC services and should not ever again

:56:30. > :56:35.be used to fund wider Government programmes. The crucial new proposal

:56:36. > :56:44.relates to a process to determine the license fee will stop after

:56:45. > :56:48.three I'm clear processes for determining this, the trust is

:56:49. > :56:53.calling for it to be written into the charter, giving a formal and

:56:54. > :56:59.clear process with a timescale to be established. The regulator, whether

:57:00. > :57:09.it is Ofcom or someone else, needs to be empowered to bring evidence in

:57:10. > :57:15.two the debate on the BBC's funding, providing the Government, Parliament

:57:16. > :57:22.and the public with proper debate before decisions are taken. It is

:57:23. > :57:28.also my firm opinion that there should be no bit point review, much

:57:29. > :57:38.speculated upon in the press. It is a firm opinion of the trust... I'm

:57:39. > :57:43.sorry, that this would create unnecessary operational uncertainty

:57:44. > :57:48.for the BBC and make long-term planning difficult. Moreover, it

:57:49. > :57:53.could potentially affect their ability to invest in projects which

:57:54. > :57:59.benefit both the public and the BBC -- and the UK's creative industries.

:58:00. > :58:06.The current charter has shown flexibility to enable the BBC to

:58:07. > :58:10.react effectively, in a shifting technological landscape. For

:58:11. > :58:18.example, the decision to launch the eye player in 2007. A midpoint

:58:19. > :58:22.review, we believe, is unnecessary. Thirdly, and finally, my lord, we

:58:23. > :58:29.support the proposal from the report for the creation of a unitary board,

:58:30. > :58:37.independent from the Government, but we have significant concerns that

:58:38. > :58:44.DCM as should be the organisation with the power to appoint the

:58:45. > :58:52.unitary board. This, we believe, is unacceptable. Instead, it should be

:58:53. > :58:54.a transparent process for the appointment of the board.

:58:55. > :59:01.Ministerial involvement should only be to the appointment of the chair.

:59:02. > :59:03.This is a view which is widely supported by a polling which the

:59:04. > :59:13.trust has carried out. Earlier today in this House we carried out a

:59:14. > :59:20.ceremony to mark the Queen's 90th birthday. The BBC is slightly older

:59:21. > :59:25.at 94. The Queen's Christmas address is watched by many and it is

:59:26. > :59:28.remarkable that it was the most watched programme lysed Christmas

:59:29. > :59:31.Day. It shows again how the BBC can play such a powerful role in

:59:32. > :59:39.bringing this nation together. My Lords, I too thank Lord Best and

:59:40. > :59:43.communications committee for this excellent debate based on their

:59:44. > :59:46.excellent report, both of which highlight in particular the

:59:47. > :59:50.importance of better governance, great diversity and protection

:59:51. > :59:55.against political pressure. The report anticipates the BBC trust

:59:56. > :00:00.will be replaced by an independent regulator, most likely Ofcom which I

:00:01. > :00:04.welcomed because it is well regarded across business and politics, but

:00:05. > :00:07.given the replacement of the BBC Trust by an independent regulator

:00:08. > :00:13.Sir David Clementi's recent review proposes a unitary BBC board of

:00:14. > :00:17.perhaps 13 members led by a nonexecutive chair with a deputy

:00:18. > :00:21.chair acting as senior independent director, plus four other

:00:22. > :00:25.nonexecutive directors designated from the four nations of the United

:00:26. > :00:33.Kingdom with the balance of five or six nonexecutive members also to be

:00:34. > :00:38.pointed to a 13 or 14 strong board. The proposed unitary board might

:00:39. > :00:42.therefore have only two, or perhaps three, executive directors from BBC

:00:43. > :00:49.management, including of course the director-general. As we have heard,

:00:50. > :00:53.the DCMS Secretary of State John Whittingdale suggests the Government

:00:54. > :00:58.might appoint all of the non-executives. That would become as

:00:59. > :01:02.previous speakers have made clear, a very real threat to the independence

:01:03. > :01:05.of the BBC, because in an organisation controlled by a unitary

:01:06. > :01:11.board these government appointees could exert influence in many

:01:12. > :01:14.sensitive areas including programming decisions. So, one

:01:15. > :01:18.consideration should therefore be that the next Royal Charter should

:01:19. > :01:22.therefore make it clear that the ultimate editor in chief of all

:01:23. > :01:26.programme output is the director-general. Lord Hall, the

:01:27. > :01:30.current director-general, recently stressed the independence of the BBC

:01:31. > :01:35.from political pressure must be a priority command as we have heard

:01:36. > :01:39.today, it is clear that most noble Lords share that view. We now know

:01:40. > :01:43.that the White Paper on Charter renewal will finally be published

:01:44. > :01:46.next month, and I hope by then the Government will have backed away

:01:47. > :01:50.from proposing an appointments procedure which would threaten the

:01:51. > :01:55.BBC's traditional independence and be very vigorously contested. The

:01:56. > :01:59.weakness of the Royal Charter process in protecting the BBC from

:02:00. > :02:04.government interference has long had cogently been argued by the noble

:02:05. > :02:09.Lord Lord Falconer, who rightly said it should be rooted in statute with

:02:10. > :02:14.more transparent and democratic decisions debated and endorsed in

:02:15. > :02:18.Parliament. Lord Birt, former director-general, criticised the way

:02:19. > :02:23.in which the Royal Charter's proposed safeguards have been

:02:24. > :02:28.bypassed so easily to divert around 25% of BBC programme budgets to fund

:02:29. > :02:33.Treasury schemes. Now, unfortunately, it's almost too late

:02:34. > :02:37.to push through fundamental reforms, but looking forward to Lord Lester's

:02:38. > :02:42.draft Bill I hope this house can give attention momentum to it. But

:02:43. > :02:49.we must still use next month's White Paper to press for reforms and other

:02:50. > :02:50.arrangements. Your Lordships' can indication is committee suggest

:02:51. > :02:56.scrapping the multiple accountability layers of BBC

:02:57. > :03:00.bureaucracy and adopting Ofcom's four general Puig service

:03:01. > :03:05.broadcasting purposes, informing or understanding of the world,

:03:06. > :03:07.stimulant in knowledge and learning, reflecting UK cultural identity, and

:03:08. > :03:15.representing diversity and alternative viewpoints. To the

:03:16. > :03:23.traditional BBC's Reithian tradition, to entertain, inform and,

:03:24. > :03:29.diversity will no doubt become even greater over the life of the next

:03:30. > :03:33.BBC Charter. I pick up here on some of the issues raised by Baroness

:03:34. > :03:37.Healy, my noble friend. In the House of Commons last Thursday debate on

:03:38. > :03:44.the BBC on diversity was introduced by the MP for Tottenham David Lammy

:03:45. > :03:48.in an excellent speech. Mr Lambie's motion noted with concern that

:03:49. > :03:55.black, Asian and minority ethnic people working in the UK creative

:03:56. > :04:01.media fell by 31% between 2006 and 2012. It also noted that the BBC had

:04:02. > :04:05.fallen behind other broadcasters in setting and achieving targets for a

:04:06. > :04:10.more diverse workforce. And diversity of course embraces more

:04:11. > :04:17.than BAME matters, it's also about the representation and employment of

:04:18. > :04:23.people with disabilities, lesbian, Gay, bisexual and transgender

:04:24. > :04:27.people, about regionalism, gender and noble Lords may recall that our

:04:28. > :04:29.own Communications Committee recently reported on the problems

:04:30. > :04:39.facing older women working in television. Over the 15 years from

:04:40. > :04:43.1999 the BBC launched 29 initiatives aimed at improving BAME employment,

:04:44. > :04:48.and no doubt another initiative will be announced soon. It will be

:04:49. > :04:53.welcome, but clearly what is needed is action and results if the BBC is

:04:54. > :04:58.to meet its targets, which at present lag behind Channel 4 and

:04:59. > :05:03.Sky. Sky entertainment has decreed that all new shows will have 20% of

:05:04. > :05:09.people from BAME backgrounds insignificant on-screen roles and

:05:10. > :05:15.targets for regional roles of screen in all productions -- in significant

:05:16. > :05:20.on-screen roles. In Sky News 15% of interviewees were from BAME

:05:21. > :05:25.communities. Channel 4 has an vicious targets in its 360 degrees

:05:26. > :05:34.diversity Charter with an increase from 15% of BAME staff in 2015 to

:05:35. > :05:36.20% in 2020. Channel 4 has also made remarkable progress in employing and

:05:37. > :05:41.representing on-screen and off-screen people with disabilities.

:05:42. > :05:47.My noble friend Baroness Oona King is indeed the driving force on these

:05:48. > :05:53.issues at Channel 4. Currently the reckoning is that in London, where

:05:54. > :05:59.national broadcasters are based, around 40% of the population are

:06:00. > :06:05.from BAME communities, or not British-born. Across the UK the

:06:06. > :06:11.figure is around 14% and rising. Significantly, BBC One has a share

:06:12. > :06:18.of 22% of the television audience, but only a 13% share of BAME

:06:19. > :06:23.viewers. The BAME percentage of the BBC workforce has crept up pretty

:06:24. > :06:28.slowly in recent years to just over 13%. But that is markedly lower in

:06:29. > :06:35.senior positions. Interestingly, the Minister for culture Ed Vaizey was

:06:36. > :06:39.repeatedly praised for the personal and very positive role he plays in

:06:40. > :06:45.encouraging greater diversity. The Minister in turn praised the work

:06:46. > :06:49.done to highlight diversity issues by Sir Lenny Henry, the actor Idris

:06:50. > :06:55.Elba who recently addressed a packed meeting here at Parliament, and

:06:56. > :06:58.Simon Albury of the campaign for broadcasting equality who is the

:06:59. > :07:05.former Chief Executive of the Royal Television Society. Esther Albury

:07:06. > :07:09.says the advances made on-screen in BAME representation are important

:07:10. > :07:12.but on-screen representation must be matched by more off-screen

:07:13. > :07:16.employment, especially in the areas of commissioning power and editorial

:07:17. > :07:24.influence which must be mobilised to drive faster change across the BBC.

:07:25. > :07:27.Regarding regional diversity the BBC can, I think, be proud of the

:07:28. > :07:31.progress it has made in spending much more of its programming budget

:07:32. > :07:37.outside the M25. Media City in Salford has been given a great boost

:07:38. > :07:41.to production in the North of England, and ITV is also building

:07:42. > :07:44.its own regional structures in Yorkshire and at what used to be

:07:45. > :07:50.called Granada land in the north-west, especially with location

:07:51. > :07:55.drama and serious like Emmerdale and Coronation Street. Scotland, Wales

:07:56. > :07:59.and Northern Ireland now have shares of BBC programme production that

:08:00. > :08:04.better reflect their share of UK audiences, a much welcome advance on

:08:05. > :08:10.past practice. BBC television and radio now has a more diverse

:08:11. > :08:13.regional spread, but there is surely a lot more that could be done for

:08:14. > :08:18.the populous Midlands and North East of England. Our judgments on these

:08:19. > :08:21.matters might be better informed if the BBC were not so grudging in

:08:22. > :08:26.giving out information about programme budgets and staffing. For

:08:27. > :08:32.which it was criticised in the Commons debate. How viewers' licence

:08:33. > :08:37.fee money is spent demands and deserves more transparency. The

:08:38. > :08:43.diversity of the UK can be defined in so many ways that no Royal

:08:44. > :08:48.Charter or PSP purpose can capture all of its complexity -- PSP. The

:08:49. > :08:51.greatest challenge in producing BBC programmes has been defined as

:08:52. > :08:58.making the good popular and the popular good. The digital platforms

:08:59. > :09:00.and alternative channels multiplying and competition increasing and

:09:01. > :09:07.audiences fragment in, the demands on executives and creative producers

:09:08. > :09:14.will intensify. The demands for quality and higher ratings will at

:09:15. > :09:17.times not sit easily alongside the targeting of diversity. That is a

:09:18. > :09:21.challenge that must be guided strongly and imaginatively from the

:09:22. > :09:25.top of broadcasting organisations, especially one as indispensable to

:09:26. > :09:36.the UK as the BBC, and I speak as someone who spent 30 years in

:09:37. > :09:38.broadcasting at a rival of Independent television. That

:09:39. > :09:43.independence will not be achieved by the BBC trust if it is dominated by

:09:44. > :09:47.ABC appointees. Between the publication of the White Paper and

:09:48. > :09:50.the start of the new BBC Charter, Parliament must strive to put the

:09:51. > :09:54.right structures of governance in place to encourage creativity and

:09:55. > :09:58.diversity to sustain impartiality and independence, and to reward the

:09:59. > :10:09.viewing public for the trust and affection they have for the BBC. My

:10:10. > :10:13.Lords, I too want to pay tribute to the noble Lord Lord Best who chaired

:10:14. > :10:17.our committee, and I also paid tribute to my fellow committee

:10:18. > :10:22.members and these are a warm-hearted tribute, and I will explain why. Our

:10:23. > :10:30.report reminds me of how you produce a souffle. We served up a dish which

:10:31. > :10:33.looks simple, it contains clear and straightforward observations and

:10:34. > :10:40.recommendations. But as with a souffle, it involves hours and hours

:10:41. > :10:43.of toil and sweat in the preparation. Only members of the

:10:44. > :10:47.committee who were involved in this process can appreciate what agonies

:10:48. > :10:53.we went through. What happened was this: we did not want to have an

:10:54. > :10:58.inquiry into every element of the BBC. So we said we would focus on

:10:59. > :11:04.specific elements one being the public purposes of the BBC. Little

:11:05. > :11:10.did we know what we were getting into. We thought that this arena of

:11:11. > :11:14.public purposes would be a light stroll in the garden involving a

:11:15. > :11:20.pair of secateurs for a little light pruning. Instead we found ourselves

:11:21. > :11:26.in tangled, almost strangle it, in a thicket six public purposes, a

:11:27. > :11:33.further six public remits, 28 purpose priorities and 26 service

:11:34. > :11:36.licences. Add to these Ofcom's own public purposes. Not surprisingly we

:11:37. > :11:44.decided that what we needed were not secateurs, but heavy garden shears.

:11:45. > :11:48.So we came to the view, keep it simple. Please, get back to the

:11:49. > :11:54.simple Reithian mission, the three objectives to inform, educate and

:11:55. > :11:58.entertain. And we were then encouraged by the right reverend,

:11:59. > :12:06.the Bishop of Chelmsford, to add a fourth, to reflect. And the Bishop

:12:07. > :12:11.has talked this afternoon about the need to reflect beliefs across the

:12:12. > :12:17.country. And so our report says that the BBC should reflect, and I quote:

:12:18. > :12:22.the front opinions, lifestyles, beliefs and values of the nations,

:12:23. > :12:29.regions and diverse communities of the UK. I hope that the BBC will

:12:30. > :12:33.take note of the recommendation to reflect the range of different

:12:34. > :12:40.opinions across the UK. Because, if I may say so, I don't think they

:12:41. > :12:44.have always done so. I have heard highly respected BBC commentators,

:12:45. > :12:47.such as Nick Robinson, say that the BBC has sometimes been slow to

:12:48. > :12:53.reflect public opinion on controversial subjects. And he

:12:54. > :12:58.cited, for example, Europe and immigration. And I suspect this is

:12:59. > :13:04.partly the result of a metropolitan bias in news reporting. How often

:13:05. > :13:10.have we heard the anchorman or woman on the Today programme as they

:13:11. > :13:12.introduced the weather forecast, it's raining over Broadcasting

:13:13. > :13:18.House, what is it doing in the rest of the country? It was therefore

:13:19. > :13:22.very encouraging when the committee went to visit the BBC at Media City

:13:23. > :13:27.in Salford Quays. That move has been a great success, and not just for

:13:28. > :13:33.the BBC, but also for the locality and the region. The same will be

:13:34. > :13:42.true, I think, as the BBC extends its presence elsewhere, for example

:13:43. > :13:45.in Cardiff. My Lords, the Government is looking at proposals on Charter

:13:46. > :13:51.on your, so let me make a few points about that. It is right, as has been

:13:52. > :13:55.said by many noble Lords, notably Mike Noble Lord Lord Fowler and Lord

:13:56. > :13:59.Lester, who isn't in his place, it is right the BBC should be

:14:00. > :14:04.independent and be seen to be independent -- my noble Lord, Lord

:14:05. > :14:08.Fowler. Points have been raised about how the process by which

:14:09. > :14:13.Charter renewal takes place, how that should happen. I've listened

:14:14. > :14:19.very carefully to what has been said. And as I understand it, the

:14:20. > :14:26.provisions of the BBC Charter and chartering you will will be put into

:14:27. > :14:29.legislation in an act of Parliament and decided by Parliament. But I do

:14:30. > :14:36.wonder if that would make the process more political. I wonder if

:14:37. > :14:43.my noble friend Lord Fowler could imagine the kind of amendments and

:14:44. > :14:48.who might move them that such a bill might attract. I look forward to

:14:49. > :14:52.seeing what proposals the noble Lord, Lord Lester has, when he comes

:14:53. > :14:56.forward with his proposed bill, and let's judge it when we see the

:14:57. > :15:00.details of that. I want to come to the question of the licence fee now.

:15:01. > :15:05.I would not want to see a repeat of last year's process which pushed

:15:06. > :15:11.onto the BBC the cost of free licenses for the over-75s. And not

:15:12. > :15:15.surprisingly this has led to calls for a more independent system of

:15:16. > :15:22.setting the licence fee and our committee does indeed recommend one.

:15:23. > :15:29.I'm not quite sure it is as straightforward as that. At the end

:15:30. > :15:35.of the day, the level of the license fee has two reflect the scale and

:15:36. > :15:39.disturb of the BBC. At least under the present regime, that will, at

:15:40. > :15:44.the end of the day, be decided by the Government. But let us suppose

:15:45. > :15:51.the Government were to adopt a process of licence fee settlement

:15:52. > :15:55.along the lines of our report and it should be handed to an independent

:15:56. > :16:00.body to make a recommendation, surely it should be factored into

:16:01. > :16:05.that process a view or calculation of what efficiency savings are

:16:06. > :16:11.required of the BBC. Every well-run organisation or company looks each

:16:12. > :16:15.year at how it can run itself more efficiently and cut costs where it

:16:16. > :16:22.can and the BBC should not be immune to that process. This brings me to

:16:23. > :16:27.be tough choices which the management of the BBC have to

:16:28. > :16:33.confront. They are faced with demands from the public for

:16:34. > :16:36.extensive news and current affairs, loads of sport, top-class drama,

:16:37. > :16:44.brilliant wildlife programmes, high-quality entertainment and

:16:45. > :16:48.comedy, the arts and it goes on. The BBC has very little control over its

:16:49. > :16:54.funding, so the demands made of the BBC in the new charter must be

:16:55. > :17:00.realistic. Ambitious, but not over ambitious. In my opinion, the BBC

:17:01. > :17:06.cannot do everything and mess the BBC are really prepared to pay for

:17:07. > :17:10.it. Therefore, I don't think the BBC should always try to compete with

:17:11. > :17:15.the commercial channels at every level, but that emphatically does

:17:16. > :17:20.not mean that the BBC should confine itself to output which the market

:17:21. > :17:26.will not provide, the so-called market failure model. It is not a

:17:27. > :17:33.binary choice. What I want to see is market in Richmond. The BBC makes

:17:34. > :17:38.programmes which inform, educate and entertain but which are distinctive

:17:39. > :17:42.because of their high quality. They make programmes which are innovative

:17:43. > :17:46.and break new ground and which are challenging. It has been mentioned

:17:47. > :17:51.in the course of the debate programmes such as the great British

:17:52. > :17:57.bake of and programmes made by the noble lord brag in our time which

:17:58. > :18:01.are wonderful and brilliant programmes, so there are brilliant

:18:02. > :18:05.programmes which the BBC can and does make and in the UK, we are

:18:06. > :18:11.blessed with an abundance of creative people within the BBC and

:18:12. > :18:15.the creative independent producers with the ideas, imagination and

:18:16. > :18:22.expertise to conceive and make these programmes. They will go on doing

:18:23. > :18:25.so, so long as the BBC have clear objectives, so long as the culture

:18:26. > :18:32.and ethos of the BBC and courage is them, and so long as the BBC is not

:18:33. > :18:36.swamped by an incomprehensible hierarchy of public purposes and we

:18:37. > :18:45.met involving endless and pointless box ticking. So, give the BBC a new,

:18:46. > :18:52.straightforward board structure. Appoint independent people at the

:18:53. > :18:58.top, establish a clear regulatory framework and then, quite simply,

:18:59. > :19:05.let them get on with the job. My Lords, it is good to hear all the

:19:06. > :19:14.tributes to the committee and to its chair, the noble lord Lord Best, for

:19:15. > :19:19.there really quite statesman-like and distinguished report. I thought

:19:20. > :19:25.the way that Lord Best introduced the report had all the rings of

:19:26. > :19:35.Reithian authoritative comment at its best. My Lords, the debate got

:19:36. > :19:41.off to a good start because, of course, the report's introduction

:19:42. > :19:47.was followed by the noble lord, Lord Fowler, and there has been no more

:19:48. > :19:56.consistent and firm champion of the cause of the BBC in this House and

:19:57. > :20:02.beyond than Lord Fowler. He doesn't only champion it, he analyses

:20:03. > :20:09.situations, he underlines the strengths, he sees the challenges

:20:10. > :20:14.and what is so important is he puts forward constructive remedies of how

:20:15. > :20:19.the thing can be brought forward. He is no Greek chorus. He is an active

:20:20. > :20:27.player who wants to engage in the whole dynamic of the future. My

:20:28. > :20:35.Lords, I think there has also been something which has been very good

:20:36. > :20:45.in this debate, the value of hearing from noble lord 's, as there are no

:20:46. > :20:51.people that in the Parliamentary arena who have done more to advance

:20:52. > :21:02.the cause not only of the arts, but also of bringing the arts to the

:21:03. > :21:10.widest cross-section of people and if I am allowed to make a personal

:21:11. > :21:19.reflection, I am constantly reminded in Cumbria where I live, how Lord

:21:20. > :21:29.Bragg has found he had time to nurture the Keswick literary

:21:30. > :21:36.festival. My Lords, Lord Puttnam, I thought, he was splendid, in the way

:21:37. > :21:43.in which he underlined that if what we love about the BBC is to survive

:21:44. > :21:50.and faster, its independence at the BBC is crucial. In that, the way in

:21:51. > :21:58.which the governors are appointed and the chair appointed, is, of

:21:59. > :22:03.course, is essential. We need to watch that very carefully indeed.

:22:04. > :22:13.The report emphasised that they would like to add or put forward the

:22:14. > :22:18.thought that the additional objective might be added to the BBC

:22:19. > :22:23.mission and that is to reflect. Of course, the way in which they were

:22:24. > :22:27.using reflect is that it must reflect society additives, the

:22:28. > :22:31.generations of society, the nations that make the United Kingdom, and do

:22:32. > :22:42.that really demonstrate with commitment. -- do that really

:22:43. > :22:50.demonstrably. But reflect has two meanings, really. I hope that they

:22:51. > :22:54.feel as strongly about the other dimension of reflect, which is to

:22:55. > :23:01.stop, pause and consider and evaluate the society which we are

:23:02. > :23:05.in. This I think is a two Mendis contribution the BBC can make.

:23:06. > :23:12.Actually encouraging people to think about the world in which they are

:23:13. > :23:17.living. -- this is a tremendous contribution the BBC can make. They

:23:18. > :23:24.can see for themselves how they can becoming gauged in shaping this

:23:25. > :23:28.world. In this context, I was also very bad that the report emphasised

:23:29. > :23:39.unashamedly children. I can't help forgetting my up ringing. Children's

:23:40. > :23:43.hour was a very important part of my upbringing, in my young days, and

:23:44. > :23:49.not least because I was growing up in the wall with all the tensions

:23:50. > :23:54.and stress and drama of war. How we waited for the drama on Thursday

:23:55. > :24:00.nights and the next episode of the drama. Some children were asked

:24:01. > :24:09.quite soon after television was coming in, in a very serious survey,

:24:10. > :24:15.and they were asked, what do you prefer? Radio drama or television

:24:16. > :24:23.drama? At that stage, the majority of the children who were asked said,

:24:24. > :24:28.oh, radio drama. When asked why they said, because the pictures are

:24:29. > :24:35.better. I wonder whether, with all our cameras and high-tech and the

:24:36. > :24:43.rest, we are stimulating the agenda and imagination to quite the degree

:24:44. > :24:55.to which radio children's programmes used to do certainly in the 1930s

:24:56. > :25:02.and 40s. My Lords, if it's a stimulating amongst the young and

:25:03. > :25:06.children's imagination and vision, we have to look at what it's

:25:07. > :25:13.contributing to the children. What we are making available to the young

:25:14. > :25:19.in the context of the crisis in our society itself. I almost literally

:25:20. > :25:26.lose sleep about what is happening to our society is that the concept

:25:27. > :25:36.of citizenship is withering, as consumerism takes over. Consumerism

:25:37. > :25:46.fosters responsive attitudes in terms of personal needs, personal

:25:47. > :25:52.aggrandisement and the rest. Citizenship demands thought and

:25:53. > :25:56.participation. Without of course becoming propaganda agents, the BBC

:25:57. > :26:05.has a unique opportunity to begin to introduce and effectively introduce

:26:06. > :26:11.children to the importance of citizenship and to how they can

:26:12. > :26:18.participate in citizenship and what the issues of citizenship are about.

:26:19. > :26:21.When I was a member of Parliament, I had an inner-city constituency. I

:26:22. > :26:29.made a point every year of going to visit every secondary school in my

:26:30. > :26:35.constituency. It was not a cheering experience because, when I was

:26:36. > :26:45.talking to people about the importance of participation in

:26:46. > :26:49.politics, they would say, what is this, it's got nothing to do with

:26:50. > :26:54.politics. I would say to them, does your family have any housing

:26:55. > :27:02.problems? Do your families ever encounter medical problems? Do your

:27:03. > :27:14.families have issues about education itself? And I was repeatedly told by

:27:15. > :27:17.the youngsters, in words of one syllable, very bluntly sometimes,

:27:18. > :27:21.that's got nothing to do with politics. That was some years ago

:27:22. > :27:26.but I suspect that the situation is even worse today, with the

:27:27. > :27:35.disillusionment in the political community. I think the BBC has got a

:27:36. > :27:42.terrific opportunity to rehabilitate the elliptical context and quality

:27:43. > :27:48.of our society -- political context and quality of our society. Also

:27:49. > :27:53.within that, I think local radio has an important role to play. I can

:27:54. > :27:59.speak warmly about radio Cumbria and the key part it has played into

:28:00. > :28:04.terrible episodes of flooding in recent years, absolutely crucial to

:28:05. > :28:10.the well-being and safety of the local people. It also has a

:28:11. > :28:15.responsibility to link into local perceptions, local engagement. The

:28:16. > :28:22.national issues, I was struck at the time of the last flooding, that it

:28:23. > :28:27.almost coincided with the great conference in Paris. I thought it

:28:28. > :28:30.was a terrific opportunity there to get people thinking about what was

:28:31. > :28:35.being done in Paris and what the relevance of what was going on in

:28:36. > :28:42.Paris had to their situation and the difficulties they were facing. I

:28:43. > :28:47.think, there again, the role that the BBC can play openly must never

:28:48. > :28:53.be underestimated, but it is not just reporting local crime and local

:28:54. > :28:59.murders etc. It is easy to slip into that sort of preoccupation. It is

:29:00. > :29:03.about taking the opportunity to stimulate a better neighbourhood

:29:04. > :29:07.community understanding of how the world are really affecting them and

:29:08. > :29:26.how they relate to them as a community.

:29:27. > :29:34.I can't conclude without saying how happy I was with the World Service

:29:35. > :29:38.and how important it was to me. As a young man, not infrequently, I found

:29:39. > :29:43.myself in Bush house. It seemed to me that it had all the

:29:44. > :29:49.characteristics of a unique university. It had a real sense of

:29:50. > :29:55.community journalism, it shared experiences and that's, and a very

:29:56. > :30:03.high level of analysis and thought about the issues before the world's

:30:04. > :30:08.society. If we have run reality with which we all have do live, and I

:30:09. > :30:13.really can't say how strongly I feel about this, if we have one reality

:30:14. > :30:18.with which we all have two lives and it is so sad to see in Britain that

:30:19. > :30:24.there are so many people, not least in the Westminster community, who

:30:25. > :30:29.wish it wasn't true and want to run away from it, but the reality is

:30:30. > :30:34.that from the moment we are born, we are locked into a world community.

:30:35. > :30:38.We are utterly interdependent with the world. There is hardly a single

:30:39. > :30:44.issue of significance which can be solved or resolved or dealt with

:30:45. > :30:47.successfully on our own as a nation. It has to be doubt with in the

:30:48. > :30:54.context of cooperation, participation in the wider world

:30:55. > :31:02.community of which we are a part. Here I think the BBC not only in the

:31:03. > :31:05.quality of thinking in Britain, in the contribution it makes, but in

:31:06. > :31:10.the practicality of its link between the World Service, the National

:31:11. > :31:14.Service, the regional servers, the local service, is in a strongly

:31:15. > :31:15.placed position to ensure the quality of the future of our

:31:16. > :31:26.democracy.