:00:00. > :00:00.That's the end of the day in the House of Commons. We'll now be going
:00:00. > :00:00.to the House of Lords. Remember you can watch recorded coverage of all
:00:00. > :00:09.of today's business in the Lords after the Daily Politics later
:00:10. > :00:18.tonight. Should be on acquiring skills in preparation for return to
:00:19. > :00:23.their own countries. We will however need solutions in third countries
:00:24. > :00:30.for those who won't go home. A report rightly calls for a global
:00:31. > :00:37.plan. Large and developed states will have a vital part to play. For
:00:38. > :00:47.example, the United States, Canada, Brazil, with Australia and New
:00:48. > :00:53.Zealand. Some cities have been so destroyed that a huge input will be
:00:54. > :01:00.needed to make them habitable. I saw this in homes and Aleppo. I welcome
:01:01. > :01:06.the new Secretary General said he has served as High Commissioner for
:01:07. > :01:12.refugees. I hope Mr Gutierrez agrees with the report on the point of
:01:13. > :01:23.redefining who is a refugee. We should perhaps distinguish those
:01:24. > :01:26.with individual fears of persecution. There will be other
:01:27. > :01:35.people who have fled because of genuine fears. Group violence, war
:01:36. > :01:41.or natural disaster. Their plight is real, but different from the more
:01:42. > :01:52.personal kind. The report shows that UN peacekeeping cost over $8 billion
:01:53. > :02:00.a year employing 86,000 troops and a total personnel of almost 120,000.
:02:01. > :02:06.We can all agree it must be possible to get better results from such
:02:07. > :02:10.massive resources. Sexual abuse and exploitation by so-called
:02:11. > :02:15.peacekeepers has been a long-running scandal. This cries out for
:02:16. > :02:23.reflective reform. Given that protecting women and children should
:02:24. > :02:27.be top priority for peacekeepers. I have two questions for the
:02:28. > :02:32.government. Will they make the case for enhancing the use of the UN
:02:33. > :02:39.Secretary General's good offices, which have been mentioned already?
:02:40. > :02:44.In particular in order to prevent conflicts. Will they insist on
:02:45. > :02:59.Article 99 powers for preventing wars, genocide and refugee flows.
:03:00. > :03:08.I ask, what relations does the Secretary General have with groups
:03:09. > :03:14.like The Hammers, and the free Canton is of northern Syria. They
:03:15. > :03:20.are all, I believe, too important to be ignored. My Lords, I trust that
:03:21. > :03:28.leaving the EU will not absorb all our energies. We must, surely, try
:03:29. > :03:36.to help the UN to perform more effectively than ever before.
:03:37. > :03:48.My lords, like others I wish Lord Hall well and I congratulate Lord
:03:49. > :03:52.Jopling on his introduction to this debate. I want to talk about
:03:53. > :03:57.relations with the US and with the European Union of 27, of course,
:03:58. > :04:06.after our departure. Relationship with the US will be tested tomorrow,
:04:07. > :04:09.when the Prime Minister and others have said meat President Trump. She
:04:10. > :04:15.will no doubt talk to him about a possible US-UK trade deal. On which
:04:16. > :04:21.we can expect the Americans, like the Indians, like the Australians
:04:22. > :04:30.and like others, to negotiate as toughly in their own interests as we
:04:31. > :04:34.shall I hope in hours. The Prime Minister will also be able to say
:04:35. > :04:39.that we share the US's view on the need to counter international
:04:40. > :04:46.terrorism, and will want to continue to work together with them to do
:04:47. > :04:52.that. Including by sharing intelligence. But I hope she will
:04:53. > :04:57.also say that we do not countenance torture, which includes water
:04:58. > :05:00.boarding, that we are not in favour of closing our borders to those who
:05:01. > :05:06.are fleeing conflict and repression in the Middle East and elsewhere.
:05:07. > :05:13.And I agree with my Noble Friend. And that we believe that the UN will
:05:14. > :05:22.continue to have a key role to play in an uncertain world. I hope the
:05:23. > :05:25.Prime Minister will also seek to convince President Trump that the
:05:26. > :05:32.continued coherence and indeed strengthening of Nato is in Western
:05:33. > :05:37.interests, and that as she has promised, the promotion and
:05:38. > :05:41.protection of Western values needs a strong European Union, albeit
:05:42. > :05:45.without Britain, and that the break-up of the European Union and a
:05:46. > :05:51.retreat into a world of protectionist nation states is not
:05:52. > :05:59.in any one's interest. And it follows from that that Britain's own
:06:00. > :06:04.interest lies, it seems to me, in a continuing close relationship with
:06:05. > :06:08.the European Union, even after we have left. We shall not be members
:06:09. > :06:11.of the European Union. We shall not be members of the Common foreign and
:06:12. > :06:16.security policy. And we will not be present when EU heads of state and
:06:17. > :06:22.government meet to discuss the crisis of the day. But it is surely
:06:23. > :06:27.in our interest, as much as in the interest of the EU themselves, that
:06:28. > :06:35.we continue to work closely with them. And in particular,
:06:36. > :06:38.bilaterally, with France, on, for example, the approach to and
:06:39. > :06:47.sanctions on Russia on the Middle East and North Africa. My lords,
:06:48. > :06:52.none of that will be easy. The conduct of foreign policy seldom is.
:06:53. > :06:56.But I hope the BRIAN NOBLE:, the minister, will be
:06:57. > :07:00.able to confirm that it will be in a clear sense of our own national
:07:01. > :07:07.interest that will determine how a relation with others, including the
:07:08. > :07:12.US and the European Union. My lords, I welcome this report and I welcome
:07:13. > :07:18.the work of the new committee. I welcome the UK's commitment to the
:07:19. > :07:23.preservation and strengthening of the liberal global order, to the UN
:07:24. > :07:27.and the international suggestions of the UN family and the extensive
:07:28. > :07:33.framework of international law included in the global human rights
:07:34. > :07:39.regime. International law, international courts and
:07:40. > :07:44.institutions, of course, constrain national sovereignty. Successive UK
:07:45. > :07:51.governments accepted that trade-off, that treaties and international
:07:52. > :07:54.norms share sovereignty and build an open international order. Now it
:07:55. > :07:59.appears we have a US administration that rejects many of these
:08:00. > :08:03.constraints on global order, global institutions and international law.
:08:04. > :08:10.That puts Britain in opposition to the current thrust of US foreign
:08:11. > :08:13.policy, and I very much hope he is we all do, that the Prime Minister
:08:14. > :08:18.will be robust in warning President Trump of the dangers of his
:08:19. > :08:22.approach. But while British unselect support a global institutions, they
:08:23. > :08:28.reject the constraints of the strongest and most effective
:08:29. > :08:33.regional order. They are in favour of global human rights but
:08:34. > :08:36.passionately reject the invasion of British sovereignty by the European
:08:37. > :08:43.gym and rights regime. There are uncomfortable parallels with what
:08:44. > :08:51.drives the trump regime and the British antagonism towards the EU.
:08:52. > :08:57.The potentially negative impact of Brexit on Britain's impact in the
:08:58. > :09:05.UN, and the Commonwealth as a potential alternative framework. It
:09:06. > :09:08.has been a valuable asset to British local influence. We are now
:09:09. > :09:14.abandoning that dramatic framework. Since we are also debating the UK's
:09:15. > :09:21.international relations in the light of Brexit, I have looked for a
:09:22. > :09:26.declaration of British foreign policy by senior ministers in recent
:09:27. > :09:29.months. There has been remarkably little, beyond empty repetitions,
:09:30. > :09:34.that by becoming a much less European Britain, we will somehow
:09:35. > :09:40.become more global. It's a bit like saying that Brexit means Brexit.
:09:41. > :09:45.Boris Johnson's Chatham House speech on the 2nd of December, however,
:09:46. > :09:47.promised that this was, I quote, the first in a series of speeches
:09:48. > :09:52.setting out our foreign policy strategy. It wasn't very strategic.
:09:53. > :09:57.He spent more time discussing the fate of the African elephant down
:09:58. > :10:01.the future pattern of corporation on international issues with our
:10:02. > :10:06.European neighbours. And more time on the residence of Harry Potter
:10:07. > :10:10.novels on children in South Asia. There was much discussion of British
:10:11. > :10:15.involvement in Afghanistan over the past 200 years but no reference to
:10:16. > :10:19.the central to you of British foreign policy, since, before the
:10:20. > :10:23.English estate became the United Kingdom, on relations with France,
:10:24. > :10:28.the Netherlands, Spain and Scandinavia. The most he would say
:10:29. > :10:33.was that Britain would be a flying buttress to the European church,
:10:34. > :10:38.whatever that may mean, and I suspect he does not know himself.
:10:39. > :10:43.But he did repeat the old Tony Blair line, that Britain, and I quote, is
:10:44. > :10:46.a breach between Europe and America, and that we are at the centre of a
:10:47. > :10:51.network of relationships and alliances that span the world, in
:10:52. > :10:56.which, I quote, people in the world are looking for a lead from Britain.
:10:57. > :11:01.Well, he wrote a book on Winston Churchill. It got mixed reviews, and
:11:02. > :11:06.he should know that Churchill's concept of the UK at the centre of a
:11:07. > :11:10.network of relationships depended on our retaining a key role in the
:11:11. > :11:15.European circle, as well as on a transatlantic relationship and in
:11:16. > :11:21.what Churchill called the British Commonwealth and Empire. Cut the
:11:22. > :11:24.European dimension out of Churchill's three cycles concept,
:11:25. > :11:26.and our position in the world is sharply diminished. The only
:11:27. > :11:31.substantial speech by Mr Johnson that I can find since then was given
:11:32. > :11:36.at a conference in Delhi on the 21st of January. He made no mention in it
:11:37. > :11:40.of the Commonwealth, in the capital of what has been the jewel in the
:11:41. > :11:44.crown of the British Empire, probably because he had been told by
:11:45. > :11:47.his staff that the Indian government is not enthusiastic about returning
:11:48. > :11:51.to a subordinate role in a British-led network. There was much
:11:52. > :11:59.in the speech on Scotch whisky exports, about the pesky terrorists,
:12:00. > :12:02.he said, that India imposes to limit whiskey exports, and how
:12:03. > :12:06.nevertheless, Britain and the UK stand together in their commitment
:12:07. > :12:10.to free trade. Pesky is a term that I last came across when I was a boy
:12:11. > :12:14.in comics. It is interesting the language of Foreign Secretary still
:12:15. > :12:20.uses. He went on to say, we have just decided to restore our military
:12:21. > :12:24.presence east of Suez with a ?3 billion commitment over ten years
:12:25. > :12:30.for a naval support facility in Bahrain. We have a commitment to the
:12:31. > :12:36.whole world, and as our naval strength increases in the next ten
:12:37. > :12:39.years, the Noble Lord Lord West will be very glad, including two new
:12:40. > :12:46.aircraft carriers, we will be able to make a bigger contribution. In
:12:47. > :12:50.the Indian Ocean, we have a joint UK-US facility on Diego Garcia which
:12:51. > :12:54.is vital for our operations in the region. It is exactly 50 years since
:12:55. > :12:56.Harold Wilson PHIL JONES: Governance announced the
:12:57. > :13:00.withdrawal from Cillilers on the grounds that it no longer made any
:13:01. > :13:05.sense to continue to defend and Empire now that it had been given
:13:06. > :13:10.its freedom. Boris Johnson is too young to remember that. He was only
:13:11. > :13:16.three at the time. We mean tamed athlete at that time which included
:13:17. > :13:23.between 35-40 frigates against the 16 we have now, as well as bases in
:13:24. > :13:27.Aden and Singapore. The Foreign Secretary claimed that Diego Garcia
:13:28. > :13:35.is a vital UK, as well as US facility. Perhaps the minister can
:13:36. > :13:41.remind us how much we have in the way of UK military personnel there.
:13:42. > :13:46.The last time I was told, I think it was two, perhaps it is now four, and
:13:47. > :13:49.whether or not there are any British military assets based in Diego
:13:50. > :13:57.Garcia. This image of the world is not about taking back control, it's
:13:58. > :14:01.about taking Britain back to the 1960s, boys' comics included. And
:14:02. > :14:04.now we have thepm going to the USA to tell President Trump, according
:14:05. > :14:10.to the media this morning, that together we can leave the world,
:14:11. > :14:12.phrase straight out of Daniel Hannan's book on how the
:14:13. > :14:17.Anglo-Saxons invented freedom and the modern world. Is Theresa May
:14:18. > :14:19.going to attempt the same subordinate relationship with Donald
:14:20. > :14:25.Trump that Tony Blair pursued with George W Bush? Does she share the
:14:26. > :14:28.same illusion that Anglo-Saxon Americans love Britain above all
:14:29. > :14:33.others, and that clinging to American coat-tails gives us global
:14:34. > :14:37.status superior to the international roles of Germany and France?
:14:38. > :14:43.Independent from Europe, pendant on the United States? Commitment to a
:14:44. > :14:46.liberal international order but dependent on a Republican
:14:47. > :14:51.administration which is against many of the assumptions of that
:14:52. > :14:59.international order? That's not a coherent strategy for a post-Brexit
:15:00. > :15:02.foreign policy. My Lords, I want to thank all Noble Lords who are
:15:03. > :15:06.members of the committee for an excellent report. And I want to
:15:07. > :15:14.thank Lord Howe for initiating this debate, and also to pass on my own
:15:15. > :15:21.best wishes for a speedy recovery. In one of our earlier debates on
:15:22. > :15:24.this subject, my Lords, the noble lady the Baroness Goldie, in
:15:25. > :15:29.acknowledging that we face significant challenges to peace and
:15:30. > :15:35.stability ahead, asserted that they are not ones brought about by the
:15:36. > :15:41.UK's decision to leave the EU, and that they will not be exacerbated by
:15:42. > :15:47.our leaving. Well, my Lords, I think that is the crux of today's debate.
:15:48. > :15:53.And it has been highlighted by all Noble Lords. The question is, how
:15:54. > :16:00.will a call deliver on that assertion? Man-made and natural
:16:01. > :16:06.humanitarian crises, poverty and climate change, can only be met by
:16:07. > :16:14.international co-operation. And the report highlights the year 2015, the
:16:15. > :16:20.international community, facing up to its responsibilities by reaching
:16:21. > :16:28.agreements like the disaster risk reduction, the financing for
:16:29. > :16:31.development, the Agenda 2030 and of course, the Paris climate change
:16:32. > :16:40.record. The report acknowledged that the watchword for the UN and the new
:16:41. > :16:43.Secretary-General will be implementation of these agreements.
:16:44. > :16:52.And Paul Williams from the finance, wealth office said they would be key
:16:53. > :16:57.to maintaining credibility in the UN itself among other places. Of
:16:58. > :17:00.course, the challenge to in fermentation, as we have heard in
:17:01. > :17:10.the debate, are both political and economic, and not least, as all
:17:11. > :17:14.noble Lords have said, is our future relationship with the US and its new
:17:15. > :17:19.president. The Prime Minister will remind President Trump tomorrow that
:17:20. > :17:25.the United Kingdom is by instinct and history a great global nation
:17:26. > :17:32.that recognises its responsibilities to the world. Downing Street sources
:17:33. > :17:40.say Theresa May prefers a grown-up relationship with the new president,
:17:41. > :17:43.rather than by remaining aloof. The benefits of a close, effective
:17:44. > :17:49.relationship is, we will be able to raise differences directly and
:17:50. > :17:54.frankly with the president. Well, my Lords, clearly, this week, we have
:17:55. > :18:06.seen in a little more detail what those differences may look like.