:00:00. > :00:11.My Lords, I will now repeat a statement made by my right
:00:12. > :00:16.honourable friend, the Secretary of State for Exiting the European
:00:17. > :00:20.Union. With permission Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement about
:00:21. > :00:26.the publication of a White Paper on the Great Bill. Yesterday we took
:00:27. > :00:27.the historic step of notifying the European Council of the government
:00:28. > :00:35.decision to invoke Article 50. The decision to invoke Article 50. The
:00:36. > :00:37.United Kingdom is leaving the EU. That notification marks the
:00:38. > :00:42.beginning of our two-year negotiation period with the EU. And
:00:43. > :00:47.it reflects the result of last year's instruction from the people
:00:48. > :00:50.of the United Kingdom. As the Prime Minister said yesterday, it is
:00:51. > :00:56.fierce determination to get the right deal for every single person.
:00:57. > :01:00.Now the time to come together, to ensure that the UK as a whole is
:01:01. > :01:04.prepared for the challenges and opportunities presented by our exit
:01:05. > :01:10.from the EU. We have been clear that we want a smooth and orderly exit,
:01:11. > :01:18.and the Great Repeal Bill is integral to that approach. It will
:01:19. > :01:21.provide clarity, and certainty, for businesses, workers and consumers
:01:22. > :01:29.across the UK on the day we leave the EU. It will mean that as we exit
:01:30. > :01:33.the EU and seek a new deep and special partnership with the EU, we
:01:34. > :01:38.will be doing so from a position where we have the same standards and
:01:39. > :01:45.rules. But it will also ensure we deliver on our promise to end the
:01:46. > :01:50.supremacy of EU law in the UK as we exit. Our laws will be made in
:01:51. > :01:53.London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, and interpreted not by
:01:54. > :01:58.judges in Luxembourg but by judges across the United Kingdom. Some have
:01:59. > :02:03.been concerned that Parliament will not play enough of a role in shaping
:02:04. > :02:09.the future of the country once we have left the EU. Today's White
:02:10. > :02:13.Paper shows just how wrong that is. This publication makes clear there
:02:14. > :02:18.will be a series of bills to debate and vote on. Both before and after
:02:19. > :02:25.we leave, as well as many statutory instruments to consider. Let me turn
:02:26. > :02:30.to the content of today's White Paper. Mr Speaker, the paper we have
:02:31. > :02:35.published sets out the three principal elements of this Great
:02:36. > :02:40.Repeal Bill. First, it will repeal the European Communities Act and
:02:41. > :02:46.return power to the United Kingdom. Second, the bill will convert EU law
:02:47. > :02:49.into UK law wherever practical and appropriate, allowing businesses to
:02:50. > :02:53.continue to operate knowing the rules have not changed overnight,
:02:54. > :02:56.and providing fairness to individuals whose rights and
:02:57. > :03:03.obligations will not be subject to sudden change. And third, the bill
:03:04. > :03:08.will create the necessary powers to correct the laws that do not operate
:03:09. > :03:12.appropriately once we have left the EU, so that our legal system
:03:13. > :03:17.continues to function correctly outside the EU. I will address each
:03:18. > :03:22.of these elements internally for coming to the important issue of the
:03:23. > :03:25.interaction of the bill with the devolution settlement is. Let me
:03:26. > :03:31.begin with the European Communities Act. Repealing the ECA on the day we
:03:32. > :03:36.leave the EU enables the return to this parliament of the sovereignty
:03:37. > :03:41.we, to some degree, seeded in 1972, and ends the supremacy of EU law in
:03:42. > :03:46.this country. It is entirely necessary to deliver on the result
:03:47. > :03:50.of the referendum. But repealing the ECA alone is not enough. A simple
:03:51. > :03:56.repeal would leave holes in our statute book. EU regulation that
:03:57. > :04:02.applied directly in the UK would no longer have any effect, and many of
:04:03. > :04:05.the domestic regulations we have made to implement EU regulations
:04:06. > :04:10.would fall away. Therefore, to provide maximum possible legal
:04:11. > :04:16.certainty, the Great Repeal Bill will convert EU law into domestic
:04:17. > :04:20.law on the day we leave the EU. This means, for example, that the
:04:21. > :04:23.workers' rights, environmental protection and consumer rights
:04:24. > :04:31.enjoyed under EU law in the UK, will continue to be available in UK law
:04:32. > :04:37.after we have left the EU. Once EU law has been converted into domestic
:04:38. > :04:41.law, Parliament will be able to pass legislation to amend, repeal or
:04:42. > :04:48.improve any piece of EU law it chooses, as will the default
:04:49. > :04:52.legislatures -- devolved. However, further steps will be needed to
:04:53. > :04:56.provide a smooth and orderly exit. This is because a large number of
:04:57. > :05:01.laws, both existing domestic laws and those we convert into UK law,
:05:02. > :05:06.will not work properly if we leave the EU without taking further
:05:07. > :05:10.action. Some laws, for example, grand functions to EU institutions
:05:11. > :05:15.with which the UK might no longer have a relationship. To overcome
:05:16. > :05:21.this, the Great Repeal Bill will provide a power to correct the
:05:22. > :05:24.statute book where necessary, to resolve the problems which will
:05:25. > :05:29.occur as a consequence of leaving the EU. This will be done using
:05:30. > :05:33.secondary legislation. The flexibility of which will help to
:05:34. > :05:38.ensure that we have put in place the necessary corrections before the day
:05:39. > :05:46.we leave the EU. I can confirm this power will be time limited. And
:05:47. > :05:50.Parliament will need to be satisfied that the procedures in the bill for
:05:51. > :05:56.making and approving the secondary legislation are appropriate. Given
:05:57. > :06:00.the scale of the changes that will be necessary and the finite amount
:06:01. > :06:04.of time available, there is a balance to be struck between the
:06:05. > :06:08.importance of scrutiny and correcting the statute book in time.
:06:09. > :06:12.As the Constitution committee in the other place recently put it, the
:06:13. > :06:16.challenge Parliament will face is in balancing the need for speed and
:06:17. > :06:20.thus government of discussion, with the need for proper parliamentary
:06:21. > :06:27.control of the content of the UK statute book. Parliament of course
:06:28. > :06:30.can and does regularly debate and vote on secondary legislation. We
:06:31. > :06:35.are not considering some form of government executive orders, but
:06:36. > :06:42.using a legislative process of long standing. I hope today's White Paper
:06:43. > :06:45.and this statement can be the start of a discussion between Parliament
:06:46. > :06:50.and government about how best to achieve this balance. Similar
:06:51. > :06:55.corrections will be needed to the statute books of the three devolved
:06:56. > :07:00.administrations. And so we propose the bill will also give ministers in
:07:01. > :07:02.a devolved -- the devolved administrations the power to amend
:07:03. > :07:09.devolved legislation to correct their law, in line with the way UK
:07:10. > :07:15.ministers can correct UK law. Mr Speaker, let me turn to the ECJ EU
:07:16. > :07:21.and its caselaw. I can confirm that the Great Repeal Bill will provide
:07:22. > :07:28.no future role in the interpretation of our laws and the bill will not
:07:29. > :07:34.oblige our courts to consider cases after we have left. However, for as
:07:35. > :07:40.long as EU derived law remains on the UK statute book, it is essential
:07:41. > :07:44.that there is a common understanding of what that law means. The
:07:45. > :07:50.government believes that this is best achieved by providing for
:07:51. > :07:57.continuity in how that law is interpreted, before and after exit
:07:58. > :07:59.day. To maximise certainty, therefore, the bill will provide
:08:00. > :08:05.that any question as to the meaning of EU law that has been converted
:08:06. > :08:12.into UK law, will be determined in the UK courts by reference to the CJ
:08:13. > :08:19.EU's caselaw as it exists on the day we leave the EU. Any other starting
:08:20. > :08:24.point would be to change the law and create unnecessary uncertainty. This
:08:25. > :08:28.approach maximises the uncertainty at the point of departure. But our
:08:29. > :08:34.intention is not to fossilise the past decisions forever. As such, we
:08:35. > :08:38.propose the bill will provide that historic caselaw be given the same
:08:39. > :08:45.status as our courts, as decisions of our own Supreme Court.
:08:46. > :08:51.The Supreme Court does not frequently depart from its own
:08:52. > :08:58.decisions but does so from time to time. And we expect them to take a
:08:59. > :09:05.sparing view from SJU case law but believe it is has the right to do
:09:06. > :09:10.so. Of course, Parliament is free to endure the law and therefore
:09:11. > :09:19.overturn case law where it decides to do so.
:09:20. > :09:23.MR SPEAKER:, the charter of fundamental rights applies to Member
:09:24. > :09:30.States when they act within the scope of EU law. This means that the
:09:31. > :09:34.relevance is removed by the withdrawal of the EU, the UK's
:09:35. > :09:38.leading role in protecting and advancing human rights will not
:09:39. > :09:42.chance. The fact that the charter moves away will not mean that the
:09:43. > :09:47.protection of rights in the UK suffers as a result. The charter of
:09:48. > :09:52.fundamental rights was not designed to create new rights but to
:09:53. > :09:57.catalogue rights recognised in EU law. Where cases have been decided
:09:58. > :10:02.by reference to the rights that case law will be used to interpret the
:10:03. > :10:09.underlying rights which will be preserved. I would like to turn to
:10:10. > :10:13.devolution. The United Kingdom's domestic constitutional arrangements
:10:14. > :10:18.evolved since the UK joined the European economic community in 1973.
:10:19. > :10:25.The current devolution settlements were agreed after the UK joined and
:10:26. > :10:29.reflect that context. Innas where the devolved administrations and
:10:30. > :10:33.legislators have competence, agriculture, the environment and
:10:34. > :10:39.somas of transport, this competence is exercised within the constraints
:10:40. > :10:45.set up by EU law. The existence of common EU frameworks provided a
:10:46. > :10:49.common UK framework in manias, safeguarding the functioning of the
:10:50. > :10:53.UK internal market. As powers return from the EU, we have the opportunity
:10:54. > :10:58.to determine the level best placed to take decisions on these issues,
:10:59. > :11:02.ensuring power sits closer to the people of the United Kingdom than
:11:03. > :11:07.ever before. It is the expectation of the Government that the outcome
:11:08. > :11:11.of this process will be a significant increase in the decision
:11:12. > :11:16.making power of each devolved administration but ensure that as we
:11:17. > :11:23.leave the EU, no new barriers to living and doing business within our
:11:24. > :11:28.own union are created. In somas, this will require common
:11:29. > :11:32.UK frameworks. Decisions required about where a common framework is
:11:33. > :11:38.needed and if it is, how it may be established. The devolved
:11:39. > :11:43.administration acknowledge the importance of common UK frameworks.
:11:44. > :11:47.We will work closely with the administrations to deliver an
:11:48. > :11:51.approach that works for the whole of the United Kingdom and reflects the
:11:52. > :11:55.needs and the individual circumstances of Scotland, Wales and
:11:56. > :12:00.Northern Ireland. He let me conclude by stressing the importance of the
:12:01. > :12:08.Great Repeal Bill, to help and ensure certainty and stability. To
:12:09. > :12:14.ensure a smooth and orderly exit. To stand in good negotiations over
:12:15. > :12:19.future relationships with the EU and deliver greater control to this
:12:20. > :12:25.Parliament and wherever appropriate, the devolved administrations, this
:12:26. > :12:27.is crucial in implementing the referendum in the national
:12:28. > :12:31.interests. I hope that all sides work with that and work to achieve
:12:32. > :12:38.the aims. I commend this statement to the house.
:12:39. > :12:42.I thank the Lord minister for repeating the statement, introducing
:12:43. > :12:49.threeas of scrutiny facing this House over the coming 18 months. The
:12:50. > :12:54.other elements are the array of primary legislation, anywhere
:12:55. > :12:57.between seven and 15 bill, covering agriculture, customs, and
:12:58. > :13:07.immigrations and their associated SIs. And also the scrutiny of the
:13:08. > :13:11.Government's negotiation with the E U20 07, culminating in a vote in
:13:12. > :13:18.this House. Today's foreshadowed bill is in one way the easiest of
:13:19. > :13:22.the task as it takes existing EU law to incorporate into domestic law.
:13:23. > :13:25.However, we heard from the Secretary of State for International Trade
:13:26. > :13:31.arguing that to restore Britain's competitiveness, we must begin by
:13:32. > :13:36.deregulating the labour market, whilst the Foreign Secretary wants
:13:37. > :13:40.to use the opportunity to axe needless regulations that have
:13:41. > :13:46.acreated since Britain joined the EU. How do those comments chime with
:13:47. > :13:50.the Prime Minister's introduction to the white paper and the Government's
:13:51. > :13:56.long standing promise that the same rules and laws apply on the day
:13:57. > :13:59.after exit, as on the day before? So will the noble Lord, the minister,
:14:00. > :14:04.confirm that it is the Prime Minister who is the boss and that
:14:05. > :14:08.despite the words of the others, there is no intention to repeal
:14:09. > :14:14.those mad cap ideas within the repeal bill.
:14:15. > :14:20.Despite its aim of simply converting existing rules into UK law, the bill
:14:21. > :14:24.will be in the words of our delegated powers and regulatory
:14:25. > :14:29.reform committee, holey exceptional pieces of primary legislation with
:14:30. > :14:32.implications for the fundamental issue of the balance between the
:14:33. > :14:37.executive and Parliament. We are pleased that the Secretary of State
:14:38. > :14:41.confirmed, as the minister has done now, that the delegated powers
:14:42. > :14:46.introduced by the bill are subject to time limits but a number of
:14:47. > :14:50.concerns remain. Mar graph 321, the Government
:14:51. > :14:56.believes that current statutory instrument procedures in this House
:14:57. > :15:03.are sufficient for the task. -- paragraph 321. We have our doubts.
:15:04. > :15:09.So will the noble Lord the minister, give serious consideration to the
:15:10. > :15:14.following recommendations. That an ex-planetory memo is published
:15:15. > :15:18.alongside each statutory instrument. That there is early consultation
:15:19. > :15:24.with outside stake holders. The provision of a comprehensive
:15:25. > :15:29.delegation powers memoranda for Parliament when the bill appears,
:15:30. > :15:35.the provision of draft regulations so that scrutiny can commence before
:15:36. > :15:40.the bill is enacted inview of the scale and the complexity of the
:15:41. > :15:45.secondary legislation and give than the degree gaitory legislation is
:15:46. > :15:52.unamendable, consideration of a strength and a scrutiny procedure to
:15:53. > :15:56.ensure that there is some control over significant statetory
:15:57. > :16:01.intriplets, including some triage of the various proposals. My lords,
:16:02. > :16:06.everyone in the chamber know that our committees on this do the most
:16:07. > :16:12.excellent of work it but it clear that an extra form of capacity is
:16:13. > :16:17.needed to scrutinise the vast array of statutory instruments to come. My
:16:18. > :16:23.Lords, many EU regulations are monitored and enforced by the
:16:24. > :16:29.commissioner, the court of justice or another EU body. The question is
:16:30. > :16:32.how the Government ensures that the new regulations, once domesticated
:16:33. > :16:38.into UK law, will be monitored and enforced? There is really little
:16:39. > :16:42.point in entrenching EU rights and pro texts if the Government does not
:16:43. > :16:51.also ensure that they are enforceable. As converting EU Accie
:16:52. > :16:55.into domestic law will have significant implications for the
:16:56. > :17:00.devolution settlements as referred to, which were all premised on our
:17:01. > :17:05.continued membership of the EU, can the noble Lord the minister, tell
:17:06. > :17:08.the House about their plans for dealing with repatriation innas of
:17:09. > :17:14.devolved competence, including London? In particular, can the noble
:17:15. > :17:20.Lord the minister, provide assurance that the consultation will improve?
:17:21. > :17:27.Just yesterday, the First Minister in Wales confirmed he had not seen
:17:28. > :17:32.the Article 50 letter and not involved, invited to contribute to
:17:33. > :17:37.its drafting and described that as unacceptable, an accumulation of a
:17:38. > :17:42.deeply frustrating process in which the devolved administrations had
:17:43. > :17:48.been persistently treated with a lack of respect and today again he
:17:49. > :17:53.had to say: We are disappointed we were not given the opportunity to
:17:54. > :17:56.contribute to its publication, the white paper, despite assurances that
:17:57. > :18:02.we would be. Is this the level of co-operation that the Government
:18:03. > :18:06.thinks is satisfactory? My Lords, although lacking in certain
:18:07. > :18:10.respects, today's white paper provides some clarity. Labour has
:18:11. > :18:15.insisted that our withdrawal from the EU must not lead to the
:18:16. > :18:21.reduction of workplace rights, environment or consumer protections.
:18:22. > :18:24.These must be retained with no qualifications, limitations or
:18:25. > :18:30.sunset clause and the white paper seems, although I have not had time
:18:31. > :18:35.to read all details but it does seem to accept this entirely and sets out
:18:36. > :18:39.welcome examples but given the comments by the Foreign Secretary
:18:40. > :18:43.and the interest trade secretaries that I mentioned and indeed the
:18:44. > :18:48.former chairman of the Conservative Party, there are dangers ahead. If
:18:49. > :18:52.we are to do our job properly, we will need the resources and the
:18:53. > :18:57.structures to deal with the avalanche of secondary legislation
:18:58. > :19:04.and a way of ensuring that the delegation powers are limited, used
:19:05. > :19:09.only when vital and not misused. And that the House stands ready to do
:19:10. > :19:15.what is needed but we will need more assurance before we can be sure that
:19:16. > :19:20.the bill is fit for purpose. The Government's stressing the
:19:21. > :19:24.importance of sovereignty. For us this means parliamentary
:19:25. > :19:30.sovereignty, and not an unacceptable power grab by Government. We'll be
:19:31. > :19:34.watching you. I also thank the noble Lord, the
:19:35. > :19:40.minister, for the repeat of the statement. My Lords if the price of
:19:41. > :19:44.pointing out when the Government's Brexit emperor lacks clothes is to
:19:45. > :19:51.be labelled a well known pessimist it is a price I will pay. The most
:19:52. > :19:58.obvious flash of nakedness is in the title of the great, it is not great
:19:59. > :20:04.and repeals nothing it is the sneaky copy piece bill. Brexit does not
:20:05. > :20:07.mean Brexit but a deep and a special relationship, we learned, so of
:20:08. > :20:14.course, we are still complying are lots of EU law. Which is welcome in
:20:15. > :20:17.avoiding the destructive off the cliff no deal breaksity that the
:20:18. > :20:23.Prime Minister threatened weeks ago and I noted reap Peted in the white
:20:24. > :20:28.pipe, although I thought it had been abandoned. But the deeper our
:20:29. > :20:33.relationship with the EU is, the more flimsiness of the emperor's red
:20:34. > :20:38.line garments become apparent it seems that the Government hopes
:20:39. > :20:45.cinically, that as longs as it pulls from the EU institutions, the fact
:20:46. > :20:51.that the UK will continue to comply with EU law can be sold as freedom
:20:52. > :20:55.and regained control. But instead of taking back control, meaning as
:20:56. > :20:58.Leave voters were Steveed into thinking as increased in
:20:59. > :21:05.parliamentary sovereignty, Brexit does represent a shameless power
:21:06. > :21:09.grab by the executive on a scale to make Henry te 8th blush. And doubts
:21:10. > :21:14.on the Civil Service to cope. The statement says that the bill will
:21:15. > :21:23."create the necessary powers to correct the laws that don't operate
:21:24. > :21:28.appropriately once we have left the EU" paragraph 121 promises no major
:21:29. > :21:34.changes to policy, just enough to ensure that the law continues to
:21:35. > :21:42.function properly. We will have to be watchful that wiggle room appears
:21:43. > :21:47.to allow. And the alleged flex crypt and speed, so although Government
:21:48. > :21:52.executive orders are apparently ruled out, true reassurance is in
:21:53. > :21:56.short supply. I associate myself with the remarks made about the
:21:57. > :22:01.resources in this House. Liberal Democrats will be insisting on full
:22:02. > :22:05.parliamentary scrutiny, transparency, and due process,
:22:06. > :22:10.including the involvement of the devolved administrations. Now the
:22:11. > :22:16.statement and the white paper pledge to end the supremacy of EU law in
:22:17. > :22:23.the United Kingdom, such that the laws we obey will not be interpreted
:22:24. > :22:29.by the judges in Luxembourg, and this bears reputation: The Article
:22:30. > :22:36.50 letter admits that UK trading in the EUU will have to abide by the EU
:22:37. > :22:39.rule, while the UK takes no part in the institutions that shape the
:22:40. > :22:50.laws, in other words, we are a rule taker, not a rule maker, hence the
:22:51. > :22:57.claim of no future role for the SCU in the interpretation of Australia
:22:58. > :23:02.laws is simply untrue. The SYEU will continue to play a large part in our
:23:03. > :23:07.lives, true also of treaty rights. A few lines down from the ringing
:23:08. > :23:13.assertion of ending the role of EU learn we learn that UK courts will
:23:14. > :23:18.determine the converted law by reference to the case law. The
:23:19. > :23:23.application of the charter of fundamental rights is therefore
:23:24. > :23:27.shown up to be more apparent than real as the Luxembourg court has
:23:28. > :23:34.taken account of it in many judgments and this is admitted a few
:23:35. > :23:41.paragraphs later. So the assertion in paragraph 223 in the white paper,
:23:42. > :23:47.that the withdrawal of the EU, is also incorrect. Can the minister
:23:48. > :23:55.explain how our courts will keep up with not just historic but new EU
:23:56. > :24:00.law and CJEU case law and the obscure references to common
:24:01. > :24:07.frameworks but this must surely mean EU communes once?
:24:08. > :24:13.How will the government deal with pressure from right-wing
:24:14. > :24:17.conservatives, backed recently by the daily Telegraph, to promise a
:24:18. > :24:22.bonfire of EU red tape to put Britain on a radically different
:24:23. > :24:27.course? Is that what correction actually means? If so, when will the
:24:28. > :24:33.government Talbot -- tell the British people that they voted to
:24:34. > :24:35.diminish their rights, like food labelling or roaming charges.
:24:36. > :24:40.Liberal Democrats will not support anything which we human rights,
:24:41. > :24:44.environmental, workplace and consumer protection, which threatens
:24:45. > :24:49.freedoms to study and work in the -- EU, research funding or security
:24:50. > :24:52.cooperation. This reinforces the need that my party demands for the
:24:53. > :24:57.British people to have the final say on the Brexit deal. And for that say
:24:58. > :25:05.to be before the repeal bill is enacted.
:25:06. > :25:09.My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and others for their contributions.
:25:10. > :25:12.I would particularly like to thank noble Baroness Hayter for her
:25:13. > :25:16.overarching view that we have provided at least some clarity as
:25:17. > :25:20.regards the approach we are taking. I think we're providing a
:25:21. > :25:26.considerable amount of clarity. To clarify the first point the noble
:25:27. > :25:30.Baroness asked me, is the Prime Minister the boss? Yes, the Prime
:25:31. > :25:38.Minister is the boss. And I better make that very clear. On a more
:25:39. > :25:43.serious point, as regards the point that noble Baroness Hayter and noble
:25:44. > :25:49.Baroness Ludford made about changes that might be made in years hence to
:25:50. > :25:52.EU derived law when it is in UK law, that is for some time off because
:25:53. > :25:58.for the simple reason we have to get this process through and done within
:25:59. > :26:04.the time we have. Any changes to EU derived law, if they were to be
:26:05. > :26:07.made, if they were to be made, or I should say, proposed, would
:26:08. > :26:12.obviously need to be passed by this Parliament. That is not for now. As
:26:13. > :26:18.this paper makes very clear, the task before us is to provide a
:26:19. > :26:24.smooth and orderly exit on day one. And in so doing, just to pick up on
:26:25. > :26:27.the point, I understand people's concerns about people's writes, we
:26:28. > :26:32.are making it clear we are not intended to undermine or erode
:26:33. > :26:37.people's writes as they are derived from the EU. Furthermore, as the
:26:38. > :26:41.noble Baroness thinks this is a power grab, this is not a power
:26:42. > :26:45.grab. We make it very clear about the balance we are striving to
:26:46. > :26:49.achieve between the knees to get appropriate scrutiny from Parliament
:26:50. > :26:53.dwelt at -- whilst at the same time having a fully functioning statute
:26:54. > :27:00.book on the day we leave the EU. We set out a number of constraints. As
:27:01. > :27:04.regards the constraints that might be taken. As I said in the
:27:05. > :27:08.statement, we are committed to a time limit. The noble Baroness made
:27:09. > :27:13.some interesting suggestions as regards other constraints that are
:27:14. > :27:18.not in the White Paper as such. I would draw the Houses attention to
:27:19. > :27:24.paragraph -- to the paragraph about the scope of the power considered,
:27:25. > :27:29.we will consider the constraints placed upon the power to assess
:27:30. > :27:33.whether similar constraints may be suitable for the new power. For
:27:34. > :27:40.example, preventing the power from being used to make retrospective
:27:41. > :27:45.position or impose taxation. There are a number of other suggestions.
:27:46. > :27:54.She echoed the thoughts made in the wonderful report by this Houses --'s
:27:55. > :28:00.constitutional committee. Consultation on draft. That will be
:28:01. > :28:07.very important as we move to and landing those parts which relate to
:28:08. > :28:13.the economy. That is something worth mulling over. Draft regulations.
:28:14. > :28:20.Again... Strength and scrutiny procedure. On triage, these are all
:28:21. > :28:23.faults. My door is open to have discussions on with any noble lord
:28:24. > :28:29.who wishes to have such a discussion. I stress the point made
:28:30. > :28:33.in the White Paper where it says this white Paper is the beginning of
:28:34. > :28:35.a discussion between government and parliament as to the most pragmatic
:28:36. > :28:43.and effective approach to take in this area. The noble Baroness makes
:28:44. > :28:48.a very good point about the monitoring of EU regulations once
:28:49. > :28:53.they are converted into EU law, where those EU regulations are today
:28:54. > :28:56.enforced by EU regulators. This is a very good point. We're having
:28:57. > :29:03.extensive discussions as to how this will work with UK regulators. And
:29:04. > :29:05.furthermore, there needs to be consultation and discussion about
:29:06. > :29:13.that process and how we bring them over. Baroness Ludford, moving on to
:29:14. > :29:19.the interpretation of caselaw. I would simply say that we need to
:29:20. > :29:24.have the certainty of the law which underpins a number of significant,
:29:25. > :29:28.not simply legal cases, but also policy cases. I'm thinking in
:29:29. > :29:35.particular of our VAT policy, which a large number of European court
:29:36. > :29:39.shapes that. We are taking the approach we are taking as a result.
:29:40. > :29:45.As regards consultation with the devolved assemblies and the point of
:29:46. > :29:51.the noble Baroness made about that, yes indeed we will need to consult.
:29:52. > :29:54.We're giving ministers their power to amend their legislation to ensure
:29:55. > :29:58.it will be fit for purpose on day one. We are having regular meetings.
:29:59. > :30:04.And we will continue to have regular meetings on that. Let me end by
:30:05. > :30:07.saying that I am very, very keen to continue to consult with all members
:30:08. > :30:10.of this House about the measures contained in the White Paper, as it
:30:11. > :30:20.is absolutely critical we get this right.
:30:21. > :30:26.I realise, my Lords, that this is mainly a convergent exercise, very
:30:27. > :30:34.sensible and I greatly welcomed. -- conversion. When it comes to
:30:35. > :30:38.approving secondary legislation, can we assume there is going to be some
:30:39. > :30:43.degree of filtration and even removal there? Since many of these
:30:44. > :30:50.vast number of regulations are not only wanted, and that may be a
:30:51. > :30:55.matter for debate, but actually obsolete, and come from a predigital
:30:56. > :31:00.age and an era of centralisation that is long past. It would really
:31:01. > :31:08.be a waste of time and effort merely to place them there when they are
:31:09. > :31:15.redundant. I think my noble friend is making a good point about the
:31:16. > :31:22.potential for triage. Flagging to Parliament whether an SIA is of a
:31:23. > :31:27.technical nature, of a more substantial policy nature, or a
:31:28. > :31:30.policy issue. Therefore the level of scrutiny that is required. All I
:31:31. > :31:35.would say at this stage is I am keen we get the balance right between
:31:36. > :31:38.bringing your Lordships and the other place with us as we make these
:31:39. > :31:41.changes and get the scrutiny right with the level of speed we need to
:31:42. > :31:50.proceed with. I'm very interested in the point my noble friend makes, and
:31:51. > :31:53.we will certainly look at that. Would he clarify the welcome
:31:54. > :31:57.reference in the statement to a significant increase in the
:31:58. > :32:02.decision-making power of each devolved administration? In respect
:32:03. > :32:06.of the social chapter, for example, will Wales be able to have that
:32:07. > :32:13.fully enforceable, even if it were to be amended at a UK level? And
:32:14. > :32:16.would he also confirmed that any powers coming from Brussels to the
:32:17. > :32:24.UK applying in devolved areas, will be able to be retained for example
:32:25. > :32:30.at a Wales level rather than grabbed back by London? And will the
:32:31. > :32:35.European Convention on Human Rights human rights still be applying in
:32:36. > :32:38.the devolved areas? There is absolutely no plans for the
:32:39. > :32:45.government to withdraw from the EC HR. On the first point, there is
:32:46. > :32:48.again no intention to use this process in any shape or form to
:32:49. > :32:53.erode the decision-making powers that currently exist for the
:32:54. > :32:57.devolved administrations. As regards how power come back, that is clearly
:32:58. > :33:01.a matter that we need to consult with very carefully to make sure it
:33:02. > :33:11.works in all our interests. My Lords, my Lords, my Lords... I do
:33:12. > :33:17.welcome the fact that the government has got rid of the Orwellian title,
:33:18. > :33:22.the Great Repeal Bill, on the title page, although they did seem to
:33:23. > :33:31.revert when they got inside. But would not have been to adopt the
:33:32. > :33:35.byline of the Prince of Lampedusa's famous remark, when he gave the
:33:36. > :33:40.definition of revolution, which was, everything must change so that
:33:41. > :33:43.everything must stay the same? I think that's probably more the
:33:44. > :33:49.title. I do think the daily Telegraph files -- Daily Telegraph's
:33:50. > :33:59.regular tree bonfire may be short of dry kindling. -- regulatory.
:34:00. > :34:05.Paragraphs 116 recognise that the provisions of this bill will be
:34:06. > :34:11.operated in parallel with the Article 50 negotiations. But there
:34:12. > :34:18.is no Parliamentary process for approving the changes that may have
:34:19. > :34:23.been agreed in a deal with the European Union, other than the
:34:24. > :34:26.binary choice when that deal is brought to Parliament. So is the
:34:27. > :34:33.government really asking us to give it a blank check for all those
:34:34. > :34:41.changes it negotiates, and to deny Parliament the scrutiny of the
:34:42. > :34:44.details of them? And secondly, paragraph 120 of the White Paper
:34:45. > :34:51.makes it even clearer than it was before, that the government is
:34:52. > :34:54.anticipating no process of Parliamentary approval in the
:34:55. > :35:05.context of the UK exiting without a deal. Surely this like Una has shown
:35:06. > :35:09.even more clearly than it has before, that we have to have a
:35:10. > :35:14.provision for approving or disapproving a decision to exit
:35:15. > :35:18.without a deal? For fear of frustrating him, I'm not
:35:19. > :35:23.going to repeat all the arguments as regards the second point the noble
:35:24. > :35:27.Lord makes. All I would simply say as regards all these points is that
:35:28. > :35:31.there will be ample opportunity, as I've said many times at this
:35:32. > :35:35.dispatch box, for the Lordships and the other place to be scrutinising
:35:36. > :35:40.how the negotiations are proceeding. And as we make it clear in here,
:35:41. > :35:45.there will be a vote in both houses on the agreement at the end of the
:35:46. > :35:49.process. And also, were there to be measures coming out of the
:35:50. > :35:52.withdrawal treaty that needs to be fermented, again that would be a
:35:53. > :36:02.chance for the parliament to scrutinise those.
:36:03. > :36:05.The paper refers to the constitutional committee. Both
:36:06. > :36:08.houses need a mechanism to do is decide whether enhanced scrutiny is
:36:09. > :36:13.required for some of these intimates. Given that statutory
:36:14. > :36:16.instruments can't be amended and may be wrong in part but not as a whole,
:36:17. > :36:22.and that this House is reluctant to vote them down, surely we need that
:36:23. > :36:26.kind of mechanism? A very valid point. I have read that
:36:27. > :36:31.excellent report. It is a useful contribution to the debate. I'm not
:36:32. > :36:35.going to start committing one way now on the precise point he makes. I
:36:36. > :36:41.have had and I would like to thank those Lordships, I have had
:36:42. > :36:46.conversations with them on this. I'm happy to meet his Lordship in
:36:47. > :36:55.private. I'm not going to make a point now.
:36:56. > :36:59.I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm to me that any
:37:00. > :37:08.delegated powers to be included in the Great Repeal Bill...
:37:09. > :37:12.The foreword to the White Paper stresses the importance of trying to
:37:13. > :37:17.minimise uncertainty during the course of the negotiations. Would my
:37:18. > :37:23.noble friend agree that amongst those most suffering from
:37:24. > :37:26.uncertainty are UK citizens living elsewhere in the European Union, and
:37:27. > :37:32.those from elsewhere in the European Union living in the United Kingdom?
:37:33. > :37:37.Wendy Prime Minister approached this in Brussels she was told she must
:37:38. > :37:41.wait until the negotiations have begun and Article 50 had been
:37:42. > :37:46.implemented. Can my noble friend gave us an assurance that we will
:37:47. > :37:49.now press ahead with resolving that matter at the earliest possible
:37:50. > :37:54.moment? And should we not be absolutely clear we must avoid a
:37:55. > :38:00.situation where nothing is agreed until everything is agreed? Because
:38:01. > :38:07.that would perpetuate the uncertainty among people for two
:38:08. > :38:11.years and perhaps more. My noble friend makes a very good point. As
:38:12. > :38:14.regards the substance of it, I would draw attention to the second point
:38:15. > :38:20.of the principles for discussion set out in the letter that my right
:38:21. > :38:23.honourable friend, the Prime Minister, sent yesterday, which
:38:24. > :38:27.repeated our absolute aim to strike an early agreement about the rights
:38:28. > :38:30.of both EU citizens in this country and UK citizens across Europe. It is
:38:31. > :38:35.absolutely our intention to do so. It is good news we can start that
:38:36. > :38:38.process. And we have been very heartened by the fact that in
:38:39. > :38:39.conversations with our European partners, they also share that
:38:40. > :38:55.overriding intent. They will gain strength, and the
:38:56. > :38:59.fact although he will be on his feet for hours on ends with the
:39:00. > :39:07.collectionities of this and other bills, the advantage here is that
:39:08. > :39:12.although the detail is objective, there is the reassurance that this
:39:13. > :39:15.and all arm tearians, making and changing and amending the laws that
:39:16. > :39:19.the people of this country expect this Parliament to perform. That's
:39:20. > :39:23.the duty that in all of my experience as an MP they expect this
:39:24. > :39:30.Parliament to be able to make the decisions on their behalf. So all of
:39:31. > :39:35.us who are keen Parliamentarians and value the priceless authority that
:39:36. > :39:39.we have got in either House, and mainly in the Commons, should bear
:39:40. > :39:43.in mind, surely, that this is a holey desirable piece of
:39:44. > :39:48.legislation. I'm delighted he sees it that way.
:39:49. > :39:55.This is a complex challenge ahead and we are to proceed with simple
:39:56. > :40:00.while being mindful of the complexity and mindful of a view
:40:01. > :40:04.among some of you, that in the process of restoring sovereignty, we
:40:05. > :40:11.don't give the Government excessive powers and we must get the balance
:40:12. > :40:18.right. I am determined to do that. I am sure that the minister has well
:40:19. > :40:26.in mind of problems with amending the step legislation of a
:40:27. > :40:31.subordinate nature of this House. I urge him, based on my experience of
:40:32. > :40:39.dealing with a more modest situation that arose when I was Lord Chief
:40:40. > :40:43.Justice, and the Lord Chancellor's status transformed and we realised
:40:44. > :40:49.that there were over 300 pieces of legislation, not taken into account,
:40:50. > :40:54.can I suggest it is possible to include, whatever you will call the
:40:55. > :41:02.bill, with great or otherwise, a provision to enable a statutory
:41:03. > :41:08.instrument to be amended without affecting its validity. That will be
:41:09. > :41:16.a greater comfort to those in this House with regard to what is
:41:17. > :41:20.proposed. That makes an extremely interesting
:41:21. > :41:26.point. I am sure that there will be other points he will mention to him
:41:27. > :41:30.and I look forward to have discussions about this ahead.
:41:31. > :41:36.. My Lords, I confess, a irresistible
:41:37. > :41:43.urge to return to practice at the bar. This is a legal mind field but
:41:44. > :41:48.May I ask this. When a relevant right of action arises between now
:41:49. > :41:59.and the date of departure is it not the case that any such proceedings
:42:00. > :42:06.that may follow or to be determined by European Union law and
:42:07. > :42:10.justiceable, by the European Union of justice.
:42:11. > :42:15.I am not sure of that point, I am sorry to say. The position as
:42:16. > :42:23.regards case law is what I have set out: Until we leave the European
:42:24. > :42:31.Union, obviously we are bound by the ECJ. But I am happy to discuss this.
:42:32. > :42:35.As chairman of the delegation of powers committee, I am pleased that
:42:36. > :42:40.the Government is taking on board many of the recommendations we have
:42:41. > :42:44.made in tandem with the constitution committee, with which we are working
:42:45. > :42:49.closely. The most important one from our point of view is the sunset
:42:50. > :42:54.clause, the time limiting one which deals with many of the worries that
:42:55. > :43:00.people have about giving the Government extensive powers. Can I
:43:01. > :43:04.take it further, we will have other primary legislation dealing with
:43:05. > :43:09.other matters where we wish to have a different approach and a policy.
:43:10. > :43:15.My guess is that there will be considerable delegated powers there.
:43:16. > :43:20.Could I ask the Government not to take too much for granted there. Our
:43:21. > :43:25.committee will be having bady eyes on it all.
:43:26. > :43:30.I am delighted that the bady eye of my noble friend will continue to
:43:31. > :43:34.purr say all that comes from Government and so it should. I would
:43:35. > :43:39.like to thank her and the words of their committee for their work. We
:43:40. > :43:43.will confirm a sunset clause in this piece of legislation. My noble
:43:44. > :43:48.friend is right about the other pieces of legislation to follow.
:43:49. > :43:52.Indeed, I will not say here and now as to the extent of the delegated
:43:53. > :43:57.powers that they might have but obviously we are mindful of the
:43:58. > :44:06.needs to ensure that the powers are proportionate also.
:44:07. > :44:13.The policy to leave the single market, a policy with devastating
:44:14. > :44:20.effects to the British economy. And I hope that he has read the report
:44:21. > :44:25.on engineering manufactures' federation on the subject. But the
:44:26. > :44:30.Government defender policy, the reason for it, is that any other
:44:31. > :44:37.policy would be incompatible with the desire to restrict EU
:44:38. > :44:41.immigration but now that there will be no meaningful reduction for EU
:44:42. > :44:46.immigration, would it be elementary to examine the policy. The cost of
:44:47. > :44:51.leaving the single market is the same but the gain or return that the
:44:52. > :44:58.Government were hoping for from this policy is less than anticipated and
:44:59. > :45:02.possibly nonexistent. So is it not common sense to review the policy.
:45:03. > :45:06.Apart from the difficulty it would make for Ireland, to create a new
:45:07. > :45:11.frontier across the island of Ireland which could be avoided if we
:45:12. > :45:16.remain in the single market. I respect the passion that you
:45:17. > :45:22.speak. I have little to expand on the situation, other than than what
:45:23. > :45:27.I have said many times before. We view the need to reflect the single
:45:28. > :45:32.market, after then struction as delivered on the 23rd of June, that
:45:33. > :45:37.we believe we need to take control over our boarders and see it as an
:45:38. > :45:43.instruction received and part of the need to leave the EU. As regards to
:45:44. > :45:49.how, the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister have both said on
:45:50. > :45:52.many occasions we need to do so in a sensible way, mindful and sensitive
:45:53. > :45:59.to the needs of the economy. I have little to add to that.
:46:00. > :46:02.You are well known for the optimism, can you reassure that the House,
:46:03. > :46:07.that the legislation of this vast bill will be completed by the end of
:46:08. > :46:13.the next parliamentary session, starting on the 17th of May, more or
:46:14. > :46:23.less a year only to ensure that the legislation gets through and
:46:24. > :46:28.reassure us that as the worded structure is, that the final vote of
:46:29. > :46:30.the Parliament, the sovereign Parliament, especially the House of
:46:31. > :46:35.Commons, will be the final decision on the matter? Well, my lords, the
:46:36. > :46:40.people have said that they wish to leave the European Union, that is
:46:41. > :46:45.what we are doing. As regards the timetable for the bill, and the
:46:46. > :46:51.noble Lord makes a good point, we have obviously a timetable that is
:46:52. > :46:56.reflecting the processes set out in the Article 50 process itself. We
:46:57. > :47:00.fully intend to see this bill on the statute book as soon as possible so
:47:01. > :47:06.that we can start to use the powers and to ensure that the statute book
:47:07. > :47:09.is fit for purpose on the day that we leave the European Union.
:47:10. > :47:19.. In connection with the challenge set
:47:20. > :47:23.out... If I may say so, I understand that the noble lady does not wish to
:47:24. > :47:30.proceed. In connection with the challenge,
:47:31. > :47:34.set out in the white paper, ensuring parliamentary scrutiny for the
:47:35. > :47:43.legislation translated into the UK law, could I ask if he might
:47:44. > :47:47.consider the precedent set by the tax law Vivite committee some years
:47:48. > :47:52.ago, a Joint Committe from both Houses set up in similar
:47:53. > :47:56.circumstances where the purpose was simply to rep micate laws without
:47:57. > :48:02.changing them. It had the advantage that laws could be published in
:48:03. > :48:07.draft, others could look at them and the Joint Committe of both Houses
:48:08. > :48:14.could scrutinise and ensure as the remit was set that the laws were
:48:15. > :48:19.translated without changing meaning that could be an effective way of
:48:20. > :48:23.dealing with the volume of the legislation that is set.
:48:24. > :48:28.I will look at the suggestion and see what is practical and what works
:48:29. > :48:35.best obviously in consultation with the appropriate committees of the
:48:36. > :48:40.House. My Lords have I been encouraged by
:48:41. > :48:45.the minister's response, on the front bench, about the way his door
:48:46. > :48:49.is open for the recommendations of the constitution committee as have
:48:50. > :48:55.been marshalled around the House, he says and the white paper wants to
:48:56. > :49:01.make it clear between scrutiny and speed but would he assure the House
:49:02. > :49:05.when it comes to finding the balance, the balance must on on
:49:06. > :49:09.scrutiny. And in particular will he look closely at the provision of
:49:10. > :49:14.draft regulations, because one of the problems that has been said in
:49:15. > :49:21.this House, in scrutinising the process in recent years as been our
:49:22. > :49:26.inability to comment on the impact of the regulations as we have had no
:49:27. > :49:32.draft regulation consideration. And so much is done by secondary
:49:33. > :49:35.legislation, on a profound and not a technical nature, we will need the
:49:36. > :49:41.draft rebelling layingses in order to do our job properly.
:49:42. > :49:49.Thank you for that contribution. I take heed of what she is saying. I
:49:50. > :49:54.think it comes back to the points rose by the gentlemen about how we
:49:55. > :49:58.can in some shape or form ensure there is reflection of the of the
:49:59. > :50:04.keg call nature or otherwise of the piece of SI and ensuring it is
:50:05. > :50:10.presented in a timely manner. I hear what the noble Baroness is saying
:50:11. > :50:15.and reflect on that. Lord camble, after hearing, can the
:50:16. > :50:21.minister confirm my reading of the white paper, that obligations occur
:50:22. > :50:28.under pre-exit European law, including obligations by the
:50:29. > :50:33.government of this country, will be justiceable before the exit? EU law
:50:34. > :50:38.will be preserved as it stands on the day of exit and that the UK
:50:39. > :50:58.courts will be observing from then on.
:50:59. > :51:02.Most people think that Government makes law, and majority of
:51:03. > :51:10.legislation does come from ministers. But not all. MPs and
:51:11. > :51:15.peers have the chance to bring in their own ideas through the private
:51:16. > :51:19.members' bills. In the House of Commons there are a couple of ways
:51:20. > :51:22.for this to be done. But the ones that succeed emerge through a ballot
:51:23. > :51:28.held here at the start of every session of Parliament.
:51:29. > :51:31.It's not a very hi-tech system, any MP who wants to bring in a bill puts
:51:32. > :51:32.their name