:00:03. > :00:05.Tonight, the most far-reaching decision in Cumbria's history. Is
:00:05. > :00:10.this the right place to build Britain's first underground nuclear
:00:10. > :00:16.waste store? And could the billion pound development secure the
:00:16. > :00:22.county's economic future? Let's get it dug - jobs for my grandkids.
:00:22. > :00:24.Let's get employment back in our area, not down south. Or is this
:00:24. > :00:30.the plan that could blight one of Britain's most picturesque
:00:30. > :00:36.counties? It is so unfair to dump it in such beautiful surroundings.
:00:36. > :00:45.I don't want it for him, the next generation, it's so unfair. Which
:00:45. > :00:49.way will the county jump? Do you know what's at stake? At the end of
:00:49. > :00:59.the day, this is the biggest decision Cumbria will ever make.
:00:59. > :01:16.
:01:16. > :01:25.Tonight on Inside Out, we ask, just This is one of the most heavily
:01:25. > :01:28.guarded industrial sites in Britain. Very few people are allowed in.
:01:28. > :01:32.It's policed round the clock by dedicated armed officers. It's
:01:32. > :01:37.protected by an air exclusion zone. Why? Because Sellafield is home to
:01:37. > :01:46.most of Britain's high-level nuclear waste. Some of the spent
:01:46. > :01:51.fuel here will remain dangerous to mankind for up to 100,000 years.
:01:51. > :01:56.Today, this is how we deal with the waste. Initially it's put into deep
:01:56. > :02:00.water ponds. Only later is it cool enough for the next stage of
:02:00. > :02:06.disposal. After it has cooled, high-level waste is sealed in
:02:06. > :02:11.cylinders, brought here to be lowered into a storage slot. Yellow
:02:11. > :02:14.seals mean the slot is filled - black, it's empty. It's being held
:02:15. > :02:24.here, above ground. But this can't go on indefinitely. The store is
:02:25. > :02:30.
:02:30. > :02:33.filling up. And the clock is In 2004, this method of disposal
:02:33. > :02:38.alarmed one government adviser when he toured the plant with a
:02:38. > :02:43.committee of nuclear experts. saw how the waste was being stored
:02:43. > :02:52.and frankly I was appalled. There were huge risks involved in keeping
:02:52. > :02:55.this material just under water, If that cooling had been
:02:55. > :02:57.interrupted, the water would have boiled away and the fuel rods would
:02:57. > :03:02.have caught fire, exactly what has happened in Fukushima. It's a
:03:02. > :03:04.sitting time bomb. The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority says
:03:04. > :03:09.significant extra resources have been invested to ensure the
:03:09. > :03:19.continued safe and secure storage of nuclear materials at Sellafield.
:03:19. > :03:21.But it, too, wants a long-term There is a crisis looming - with
:03:21. > :03:25.the possibility of more nuclear power stations, Britain needs a
:03:25. > :03:30.much bigger waste store. That is a massive undertaking. But where
:03:30. > :03:35.should we put it? That is a question that has fuelled national
:03:35. > :03:45.arguments for decades. In the next few months, Cumbria has a chance to
:03:45. > :03:49.
:03:49. > :03:55.rule itself in or out of those Egremont in West Cumbria. Nearly
:03:55. > :03:58.half the players here work in the nuclear sector. It's West Cumbria's
:03:58. > :04:01.biggest employer, ploughing �295 million a year into the local
:04:01. > :04:08.economy. So around here, securing the nuclear waste store would be a
:04:08. > :04:17.real result. How soon are they going to start digging? Let's get
:04:17. > :04:21.it dug. At the end of the day, we've lived with it here for the
:04:21. > :04:26.whole time anyway, so my sentiment is it may as well be here, and we
:04:26. > :04:34.have the benefits. Let's get it dug, let's get employment back in our
:04:34. > :04:36.area, not down south. I don't know what all the fuss is about, what
:04:36. > :04:43.people are whingeing about. Basically it's not going to affect
:04:43. > :04:46.many people, apart from in a good way. They don't get it at all. They
:04:46. > :04:49.think radiation and everything - everything is controlled.
:04:49. > :04:57.Everything is controlled and it isn't as dangerous as it was years
:04:57. > :05:04.ago. Jobs for my grand kids, employment for people now. What
:05:04. > :05:12.more do you want? They've got to do something with all the stuff they
:05:12. > :05:15.produce. It's got to go somewhere. They have been looking at this
:05:15. > :05:19.issue for at least the last 30 years, that actually spans five
:05:19. > :05:26.different prime ministers. Basically, we're no further forward
:05:26. > :05:29.than we were from day one. It's just not right for the Sellafield
:05:29. > :05:38.workforce to have to repackage this waste indefinitely without at least
:05:38. > :05:43.looking for a permanent solution. The clock continues to tick as we
:05:43. > :05:46.struggle to make a final decision. The waste is building up. With our
:05:46. > :05:49.current nuclear programme it is estimated we will have enough waste
:05:49. > :05:53.to fill the Albert Hall five times over. The agreed solution is to
:05:53. > :05:58.bury it. And this is what that involves. What you see on the
:05:58. > :06:03.surface is no real indication of the scale of the operation. It's a
:06:03. > :06:06.bigger challenge than the Channel Tunnel. When they reach a depth of
:06:07. > :06:11.between 200 and 1,000 metres, they will build an underground city. It
:06:11. > :06:15.will have a larger footprint than Carlisle or London's Olympic Park.
:06:15. > :06:22.The store is a network of tunnels. It'll take 1000 construction
:06:22. > :06:27.workers 15 years to complete at a cost of between 12 and �20 billion.
:06:27. > :06:30.So is this the most exciting project in Cumbria's history? Or is
:06:30. > :06:36.the promise of jobs just a bribe to turn the county into Britain's
:06:36. > :06:46.nuclear dumping ground? And what about safety? Real questions. So
:06:46. > :06:57.
:06:57. > :07:07.Finland is a relative newcomer to nuclear power. But when it comes to
:07:07. > :07:10.
:07:10. > :07:16.dealing with the waste, it's much So where we're entering now is
:07:16. > :07:19.where Finland hopes to put all of its nuclear waste. We're going down
:07:19. > :07:23.into a very long spiral tunnel, we're going to be so far deep down,
:07:23. > :07:30.it'll be the equivalent of the Empire State Building in New York.
:07:30. > :07:33.As that is high, this is how low we are about to go. When it's finished,
:07:33. > :07:39.the road down will lead to a complex of hundreds of tunnels
:07:39. > :07:42.where the waste will be stored. It gets a little bit disorientating
:07:42. > :07:46.for a first-time visitor because the tunnel seems to be endless.
:07:46. > :07:49.We're going down at a gradient of about one in 10, so it is quite
:07:49. > :07:59.steep, but it's going to take us something like 50 minutes to get
:07:59. > :08:15.
:08:15. > :08:18.So for those who don't understand the concept of where we are,
:08:18. > :08:23.explain where we are. We are now in the demonstration level, and this
:08:23. > :08:33.is 420 metres down from the surface. This will be the level where we do
:08:33. > :08:34.
:08:35. > :08:38.our disposal tunnels also. This is now the size of the disposal tunnel.
:08:38. > :08:44.So all the eight years of work has all been about finding a hole like
:08:44. > :08:54.this? Yeah. Earlier this year, we had 1.8 diameter and 8 metre deep
:08:54. > :08:59.
:08:59. > :09:02.hole. And the canister would go straight, snug into this? Yeah,
:09:02. > :09:06.they are a bit smaller than the hole because they need to fit there.
:09:06. > :09:09.There are three barriers involved. So you will in effect slip it in
:09:09. > :09:16.with the clay around it and the rock, all three together, that
:09:16. > :09:21.should mean it's safe for 100,000 years? Yeah. It would be better
:09:21. > :09:27.than six metres of water. Which is where it is at the minute. It would
:09:27. > :09:32.be safe in those conditions. This is just one hole. How many are you
:09:32. > :09:36.going to need? There will be several 1000 similar holes and
:09:36. > :09:41.several hundreds of tunnels. It's difficult for people to understand
:09:41. > :09:48.just how big this is going to be. But also the project will last 120
:09:48. > :09:58.years. So there will be lots going on. So several generations will be
:09:58. > :10:01.
:10:01. > :10:04.The Finns have a clear plan. First, carry out a geological survey of as
:10:04. > :10:07.much of the country as you can, and once you have identified suitable
:10:07. > :10:15.sites, ask those local committees if they would agree to waste stores
:10:15. > :10:18.being built in their areas. And it worked. On the basis of this
:10:18. > :10:28.overall screening, there were 100 sites picked that turned out to be
:10:28. > :10:29.
:10:29. > :10:32.suitable for final disposal in terms of geology. We got favourable
:10:32. > :10:41.answers from five municipalities, and that was a starting point for
:10:41. > :10:46.drilling. The Finnish way of doing things means they are leading the
:10:46. > :10:51.world in building an underground nuclear waste store. We never set
:10:51. > :10:53.the goal to be the first. We just found ourselves to be the
:10:53. > :10:56.forerunners, because in other countries, these programmes have
:10:56. > :10:58.stopped, there has been political objection, there has been local
:10:58. > :11:08.resistance, but coming to the new millennium, we find ourselves quite
:11:08. > :11:17.
:11:17. > :11:27.alone. There is only Sweden and But even with his head start, the
:11:27. > :11:27.
:11:27. > :11:30.Finns think they've been cutting it This whole project was really begun
:11:30. > :11:35.29 years ago when the Finnish government gave it approval. But
:11:35. > :11:41.they have only got as far as building test tunnels. So in
:11:41. > :11:45.British terms, we are still stuck in 1983. Not only that, we're doing
:11:45. > :11:54.it all the other way round. Find a community that is willing to
:11:54. > :11:58.volunteer and then worry about the geology. This process of
:11:58. > :12:01.volunteerism, it seems to me to be ludicrous. Because you need to know
:12:01. > :12:04.when you ask people whether you can bury your radioactive waste in
:12:04. > :12:10.their back gardens, you want to know whether it's actually feasible
:12:10. > :12:13.to do it. We're doing it the wrong way round? Yes. Frustrated by the
:12:13. > :12:22.way the government in Britain was looking for waste solutions, Dr
:12:22. > :12:25.Baverstock spoke out. He was fired from the panel of advisers in 2005.
:12:25. > :12:29.We do know a little about West Cumbria's geology because of the
:12:29. > :12:31.results of test drillings carried out in the 1990s. Back then,
:12:31. > :12:39.Britain was looking to build an underground research literature, a
:12:39. > :12:42.first step towards developing a nuclear waste store. -- underground
:12:42. > :12:45.research laboratory. But the Nirex plan, as it was known, never got
:12:45. > :12:48.off the drawing board. Nirex adopted a small part of west
:12:48. > :12:52.Cumbria, a site at Sellafield, and the inspector said he concluded
:12:52. > :12:55.that wasn't a suitable site. That doesn't mean that we wouldn't be
:12:55. > :13:01.able to, if everything goes well with the planning process, be able
:13:01. > :13:07.to find a suitable site in Cumbria. That optimism isn't shared by the
:13:07. > :13:11.original planning inspector, who threw out the Nirex proposals. I've
:13:11. > :13:18.tracked him down. He has never spoken publicly before and finds it
:13:18. > :13:21.hard to believe Cumbria will be the answer to our nuclear waste problem.
:13:21. > :13:28.I was very surprised to find that West Cumbria was being floated once
:13:28. > :13:34.more as a potential site, yes. based on your knowledge, what do
:13:34. > :13:43.you think the chances are of West Cumbria being suitable again?
:13:43. > :13:46.think the probability of their finding a suitable site is low.
:13:46. > :13:50.at the end of inquiry, did you suggest where else they might look?
:13:50. > :13:53.What we found was that you could not understand the rock that Nirex
:13:53. > :13:56.had chosen to investigate. You need to be able to fully understand the
:13:56. > :14:00.rock to be sure about the solidity and the stability and the
:14:00. > :14:03.permeability. My expert adviser did say in our reports that he felt the
:14:03. > :14:06.search should move to another part of the country, and that's
:14:06. > :14:09.basically a part where there are remnants of the old continental
:14:09. > :14:12.crust, where it's very stable rock, and roughly speaking, that's a
:14:12. > :14:22.triangle that cuts across the South Midlands of England and goes on
:14:22. > :14:36.
:14:36. > :14:43.It's Cumbria's unique geology that has created picture perfect
:14:43. > :14:51.landscapes and tranquil lakes. Some of the reasons why 14 million
:14:51. > :14:54.people visit the county each year. More than 30,000 people are
:14:54. > :14:59.employed in the tourist industry, and it rakes in more than �2
:14:59. > :15:08.billion. Ask any visitor what Cumbria means to them and it's
:15:08. > :15:12.clear. Beautiful. Peaceful. Good walking. Mountains and lakes.
:15:12. > :15:16.Cumbria, Lake District, love it. Well, they're thinking of putting
:15:16. > :15:21.all of Britain's nuclear waste there. Right, perhaps not a place
:15:21. > :15:25.to visit in the future! I think if it's safe, it's got to go somewhere.
:15:25. > :15:30.I wouldn't be happy about it, I live in Morpeth, I would feel it is
:15:30. > :15:40.far too close. So for me that would be a threat. I think there's
:15:40. > :15:48.
:15:48. > :15:53.For people who make a living from Cumbria's many tourists, anything
:15:53. > :15:57.that unsettles visitors is a worry. There's lots of ways of abseiling.
:15:57. > :16:00.Angel's wings works quite well. As long as it's not too steep. We want
:16:00. > :16:02.you to experiment with all the different types. People come here
:16:03. > :16:08.for a positive experience, beautiful scenery and to do
:16:08. > :16:11.exciting things. They want to have a nice time and have good vibes. So,
:16:11. > :16:16.it's just across from where we are now with all this beautiful scenery,
:16:16. > :16:20.is this the right place to be thinking about it? It seems a bit
:16:20. > :16:22.unfair that the Lake District is going to have to have it, if
:16:22. > :16:26.someone has to have it. I'm sure the Scottish government wouldn't
:16:26. > :16:29.want it under the highest mountain in Scotland, Ben Nevis. I am sure
:16:29. > :16:33.the Welsh government wouldn't want it under the highest Welsh mountain
:16:33. > :16:38.which is Snowdon, it affects tourism in their areas. You think
:16:38. > :16:42.this is the wrong place? I think it is the wrong place. It could go in
:16:42. > :16:46.lots of other places in the country. We're being taken as an easy option.
:16:46. > :16:50.The interest is here and the skills and expertise is here but perhaps
:16:50. > :16:55.this isn't the right place. Are you worried that having a nuclear waste
:16:55. > :17:00.store here would affect tourism? I am worried and people are worried
:17:00. > :17:03.and tourists are worried. We run businesses based on tourism.
:17:03. > :17:12.Thousands of employees at Sellafield but there are thousands
:17:12. > :17:15.of employees who live through the tourist industry in Cumbria.
:17:15. > :17:19.That's good, you're looking like a good abseiler now. You could do
:17:19. > :17:21.with a decent pair of boots. Although nowhere has been ruled out,
:17:21. > :17:25.one geologist has already identified two highly sensitive
:17:25. > :17:30.areas as the places most likely to offer the best rock formation for
:17:31. > :17:39.the store. Eskdale, where Andy works, and Silloth in the north
:17:39. > :17:49.where alarm bells started to ring. Are you local? So you know about
:17:49. > :17:51.
:17:52. > :17:55.it? It's all about greed. It will destroy everything eventually. I
:17:55. > :18:01.don't want it for him, the next generation. It is so unfair, it is
:18:01. > :18:04.so unfair. To dump it in such a beautiful place. I've been coming
:18:04. > :18:08.here for 11 years now and I absolutely love it. We have a
:18:08. > :18:14.caravan over on Hilton Park and I love the scenery up here, it is
:18:14. > :18:17.properly peaceful. We don't want a nuclear waste station here. It's an
:18:17. > :18:20.area of outstanding natural beauty here and things like this would
:18:20. > :18:30.probably have a big effect on the local ecology and the wildlife and
:18:30. > :18:34.
:18:34. > :18:40.the beauty of the place. I head some birds so they're obviously
:18:40. > :18:46.around? There are a number at this time of year. They're coming down
:18:47. > :18:52.with their family. For 17 years, Brian has dedicated his working
:18:52. > :18:55.life to preserving this area for future generations. When they first
:18:55. > :19:00.mooted a nuclear repository for this part of Cumbria, what was your
:19:01. > :19:03.reaction? Shock. You hear about this kind of stuff going on in West
:19:03. > :19:07.Cumbria, around where the old nuclear plant is and where the
:19:07. > :19:16.Magnox site is as well and you think, for nuclear, this is not the
:19:16. > :19:20.place. You're saying they should not even be looking here? Yes,
:19:20. > :19:24.absolutely. When they make a big hole in the ground, there will be a
:19:24. > :19:29.lot of material coming out. What that means is it will have to be
:19:29. > :19:35.stored on site in massive buns and we have a flat landscape. What
:19:35. > :19:42.about tourism? It is a nice part of the world here, are you worried?
:19:42. > :19:46.don't want to be labelled as the nuclear repository site. It is an
:19:46. > :19:56.area of outstanding natural beauty here. This is the biggest possible
:19:56. > :19:57.
:19:57. > :20:00.adverse affect that has ever been bestowed upon us. For me, it's all
:20:00. > :20:05.about legacy. We are talking about thousands and thousands of years.
:20:06. > :20:09.This is the biggest decision Cumbria will ever make. The big
:20:09. > :20:12.thing for me is that there hasn't been a vote of confidence in this
:20:12. > :20:18.from the local community. That came from west Cumbria, it didn't come
:20:18. > :20:21.from North Cumbria. So maybe there's a split in the county and
:20:21. > :20:31.actually only those closest to the existing nuclear power station can
:20:31. > :20:34.
:20:34. > :20:44.already see the advantages. Like this company. One of the many that
:20:44. > :20:45.
:20:45. > :20:55.supply equipment to Sellafield and are hoping to seal more deals. I
:20:55. > :20:56.
:20:57. > :21:01.can vouch for the seals on there. bit hot in there? How many of these
:21:01. > :21:04.might you supply to the nuclear industry? These are products that
:21:05. > :21:10.are factored in, we do all the suits and tents like the one you
:21:10. > :21:14.have just been in. For you, the survival of the nuclear industry is
:21:14. > :21:18.important, that is your business? It is important for us. A healthy
:21:18. > :21:24.nuclear industry is a healthy business for us. So would it create
:21:24. > :21:27.jobs for you? It is hard to say right now until we see the final
:21:27. > :21:34.spec but obviously they are going to need similar types of bags, buns,
:21:34. > :21:41.tents. This could be a valuable asset to you, to have this in
:21:41. > :21:44.Cumbria? It could definitely be good news, yes. The other big
:21:44. > :21:48.industry in Cumbria is tourism and would being known as the nuclear
:21:48. > :21:52.waste dump for Britain put the tourists of? The nuclear industry
:21:52. > :21:56.has worked alongside tourism for as long as I can remember. I don't see
:21:56. > :22:03.why any reason in the future... We have had waste stores before and it
:22:03. > :22:07.hasn't affected the industry. might not be visible but what about
:22:07. > :22:10.the reputation, to be known as the dump for the country's waste?
:22:11. > :22:17.all in the name. We have 15 years to package it up into something
:22:17. > :22:20.more sexy. This is something that Cumbria can be proud of having?
:22:21. > :22:30.have been to the one in Finland and the Finns are proud of theirs, is
:22:31. > :22:35.
:22:35. > :22:40.There are lots of interesting parallels between West Cumbria and
:22:40. > :22:46.western Finland. We have Sellafield and the nearby Lake District. Here,
:22:46. > :22:56.they have the nuclear industry and this, a world heritage site. The
:22:56. > :22:56.
:22:56. > :23:06.third oldest town in Finland, founded in 1442. I have lived here
:23:06. > :23:10.for 30 years or more. I have never seen any problem in it. It doesn't
:23:10. > :23:14.pollute too much as we live now but in the future, it might do so. So
:23:14. > :23:21.we have to think about that but maybe we are not bright enough to
:23:21. > :23:26.do so. It might be a dirty question but what's in it for the people,
:23:26. > :23:33.taking on the country's nuclear waste? Here, the locals are getting
:23:33. > :23:35.7 million for local improvements, including this lavish social centre.
:23:35. > :23:39.There is a restaurant and meeting premises where weddings are held
:23:39. > :23:49.and so on, so it is a cultural monument for the municipality where
:23:49. > :23:51.
:23:51. > :23:54.people go and it is a local pride. Should a community expect a deal?
:23:54. > :24:03.Of course you are expecting some kind of a compensation, if you are
:24:03. > :24:08.accepting any waste. So, what might the benefits be in somewhere like
:24:08. > :24:18.Cumbria? With few other areas in Britain wanting to come forward,
:24:18. > :24:21.
:24:21. > :24:24.surely the county is in the best possible position to name its price.
:24:24. > :24:31.Of course Cumbria would expect to gain some benefit from carrying out
:24:31. > :24:34.this service of national importance. No question about that. This is a
:24:34. > :24:37.huge project and some people have likened it to the Channel Tunnel in
:24:37. > :24:43.terms of scale so by definition, there would be significant
:24:43. > :24:51.infrastructure improvements. We can probably think of things like
:24:51. > :24:55.health and education benefits. Inducement or a bribe? I don't
:24:55. > :24:58.think it's a bribe at all and it is not even an inducement, it is just
:24:58. > :25:01.part of the process that has been recognised internationally that for
:25:01. > :25:04.this type of project, it's important for the community to
:25:04. > :25:13.benefit but is seen and is feeling to be benefiting and additional
:25:13. > :25:15.benefits on top of the direct jobs are a good way of doing that.
:25:15. > :25:20.what is on offer? Schools, hospitals, roads, no one seems
:25:20. > :25:26.certain. Allerdale and the county council have written to the
:25:26. > :25:29.Government asking for some urgent answers. They set out their demands,
:25:29. > :25:32.they wanted clarification on just what the community benefits to
:25:33. > :25:35.Cumbria might be. Guarantees of money to promote Cumbria and
:25:35. > :25:39.protect its image and crucially, a legally binding agreement so that
:25:39. > :25:47.they would be able to halt the process at any time before the
:25:47. > :25:51.diggers move in. After years of debating, the councils were due to
:25:51. > :25:54.reach a decision on pulling out or pressing on later this week.
:25:54. > :26:00.Instead, the vital meetings will now not take place until early next
:26:00. > :26:04.year. Why the need then for this sudden delay because we had a
:26:04. > :26:08.timetable and suddenly it has been thrown into disarray? It is a major
:26:08. > :26:11.decision for local authorities to take. It would be a facility that
:26:11. > :26:14.would be here for thousands of years so if the local authorities
:26:14. > :26:20.need another three months to seek further clarification, that is what
:26:20. > :26:24.we should do. The overground high- level waste store continues to fill
:26:24. > :26:30.and with no plan B on the table, is the pressure to say yes
:26:30. > :26:33.overwhelming? Isn't it a foregone conclusion, because you're pretty
:26:33. > :26:38.much the only county interested in it and the government needs you to
:26:38. > :26:42.say yes? The government probably do need us to say yes but that doesn't
:26:42. > :26:46.mean we are going to. So last minute meetings, delays - no arm
:26:46. > :26:50.twisting going on? No, it is far too important to be accused of
:26:50. > :26:56.something like that. We are on the same page, this is not government
:26:56. > :27:05.trying to impose some go on us. It is something we are working on
:27:05. > :27:08.together and they will work at the speed we want to work at. We wanted
:27:08. > :27:13.to talk to someone from the government on such a vital national
:27:13. > :27:16.and local issue. I asked to speak with the secretary of state. He
:27:16. > :27:21.declined so I then asked to speak to his junior minister Baroness
:27:21. > :27:26.Verma who visited Cumbria last week. She couldn't find time to visit us
:27:26. > :27:34.either but she did send me a statement. How much money it might
:27:34. > :27:44.Cumbria get? Why no geological survey of the country before asking
:27:44. > :27:47.
:27:47. > :27:57.for volunteers? With no other takers, could Cumbria be forced
:27:57. > :27:59.
:27:59. > :28:03.into saying yes? In January, will we be any clearer about Cumbria's
:28:03. > :28:09.nuclear future? The consequences for the county - economic,
:28:09. > :28:12.environmental, emotional, are profound. The only real certainty