18/02/2013

:00:05. > :00:06.In the next half-hour, the country In the next half-hour, the country

:00:06. > :00:08.In the next half-hour, the country house that's in the bargain

:00:08. > :00:09.house that's in the bargain house that's in the bargain

:00:09. > :00:10.basement. We ask why Durham County basement. We ask why Durham County

:00:10. > :00:14.basement. We ask why Durham County basement. We ask why Durham County

:00:14. > :00:15.Council let a stately pile go for a Council let a stately pile go for a

:00:15. > :00:16.Council let a stately pile go for a snip. These are people who always

:00:16. > :00:16.snip. These are people who always snip. These are people who always

:00:16. > :00:17.snip. These are people who always say they do not have enough money

:00:17. > :00:18.say they do not have enough money say they do not have enough money

:00:18. > :00:19.say they do not have enough money say they do not have enough money

:00:19. > :00:20.to do this or do that and when they to do this or do that and when they

:00:20. > :00:21.to do this or do that and when they to do this or do that and when they

:00:21. > :00:22.have had a pot of gold, given it have had a pot of gold, given it

:00:22. > :00:23.have had a pot of gold, given it have had a pot of gold, given it

:00:23. > :00:24.have had a pot of gold, given it away as if it was a pot of honey.

:00:24. > :00:27.away as if it was a pot of honey. away as if it was a pot of honey.

:00:27. > :00:27.We relive one of Tyneside's darkest We relive one of Tyneside's darkest

:00:27. > :00:31.We relive one of Tyneside's darkest hour. 20 years after the collapse

:00:31. > :00:32.hour. 20 years after the collapse hour. 20 years after the collapse

:00:32. > :00:33.of Wallsend's iconic shipyard. of Wallsend's iconic shipyard.

:00:33. > :00:34.of Wallsend's iconic shipyard. I walked into Swan Hunters this

:00:34. > :00:37.I walked into Swan Hunters this I walked into Swan Hunters this

:00:37. > :00:38.morning it was like desolation row. morning it was like desolation row.

:00:38. > :00:41.morning it was like desolation row. It's heartbreaking. And what price

:00:41. > :00:41.It's heartbreaking. And what price It's heartbreaking. And what price

:00:41. > :00:42.It's heartbreaking. And what price loyalty? We add up the cost of

:00:42. > :00:43.loyalty? We add up the cost of loyalty? We add up the cost of

:00:43. > :00:44.following your team. A lot of following your team. A lot of

:00:44. > :00:45.following your team. A lot of people refuse to go to Tottenham,

:00:45. > :00:46.people refuse to go to Tottenham, people refuse to go to Tottenham,

:00:46. > :00:47.Arsenal, and Chelsea as well. It's Arsenal, and Chelsea as well. It's

:00:47. > :00:49.Arsenal, and Chelsea as well. It's because the ticket price is an

:00:49. > :00:49.because the ticket price is an because the ticket price is an

:00:49. > :00:50.absolute disgrace. Stories from the absolute disgrace. Stories from the

:00:50. > :00:51.absolute disgrace. Stories from the absolute disgrace. Stories from the

:00:51. > :01:01.heart of the North East and Cumbria. heart of the North East and Cumbria.

:01:01. > :01:08.

:01:08. > :01:09.heart of the North East and Cumbria. This is Inside Out. In cash-

:01:09. > :01:10.This is Inside Out. In cash- This is Inside Out. In cash-

:01:10. > :01:11.This is Inside Out. In cash- strapped times we are all after a

:01:11. > :01:12.strapped times we are all after a strapped times we are all after a

:01:12. > :01:13.strapped times we are all after a bargain but it looks like a house

:01:13. > :01:13.bargain but it looks like a house bargain but it looks like a house

:01:13. > :01:14.bargain but it looks like a house buyer in County Durham got a real

:01:14. > :01:15.buyer in County Durham got a real buyer in County Durham got a real

:01:15. > :01:16.buyer in County Durham got a real deal, bagging a stately home for a

:01:16. > :01:22.deal, bagging a stately home for a deal, bagging a stately home for a

:01:22. > :01:23.cost of a three bed semi. cost of a three bed semi.

:01:23. > :01:25.Windlestone Hall near Bishop Windlestone Hall near Bishop

:01:25. > :01:25.Windlestone Hall near Bishop Auckland was one of the North's

:01:25. > :01:26.Auckland was one of the North's Auckland was one of the North's

:01:26. > :01:27.grandest homes, so why in these grandest homes, so why in these

:01:27. > :01:29.grandest homes, so why in these times of austerity to the local

:01:29. > :01:34.times of austerity to the local times of austerity to the local

:01:34. > :01:34.council agree to a rock bottom council agree to a rock bottom

:01:34. > :01:44.council agree to a rock bottom price? PHONE RINGS Good afternoon,

:01:44. > :01:44.price? PHONE RINGS Good afternoon, price? PHONE RINGS Good afternoon,

:01:44. > :01:45.Jean speaking. There are some Jean speaking. There are some

:01:45. > :01:46.Jean speaking. There are some Jean speaking. There are some

:01:46. > :01:47.really nice properties to be had in really nice properties to be had in

:01:47. > :01:48.really nice properties to be had in this part of West Durham. We're

:01:48. > :01:49.this part of West Durham. We're this part of West Durham. We're

:01:49. > :01:50.talking three, four bedroom houses talking three, four bedroom houses

:01:50. > :01:51.talking three, four bedroom houses talking three, four bedroom houses

:01:51. > :01:52.- asking price around a quarter of - asking price around a quarter of

:01:52. > :01:52.- asking price around a quarter of - asking price around a quarter of

:01:52. > :01:53.a million. But what if you want a million. But what if you want

:01:53. > :01:54.a million. But what if you want something a bit bigger? Maybe with

:01:54. > :01:55.something a bit bigger? Maybe with something a bit bigger? Maybe with

:01:55. > :01:56.something a bit bigger? Maybe with something a bit bigger? Maybe with

:01:56. > :01:57.a bit of land and how about a bit a bit of land and how about a bit

:01:57. > :01:58.a bit of land and how about a bit of history too? Like this for

:01:58. > :01:59.of history too? Like this for of history too? Like this for

:01:59. > :02:00.example - Windlestone Hall, set in example - Windlestone Hall, set in

:02:00. > :02:01.example - Windlestone Hall, set in parkland and with the same floor

:02:01. > :02:02.parkland and with the same floor parkland and with the same floor

:02:02. > :02:04.parkland and with the same floor space as about 40 family homes. It

:02:04. > :02:05.space as about 40 family homes. It space as about 40 family homes. It

:02:05. > :02:06.comes with top drawer connections. comes with top drawer connections.

:02:06. > :02:07.comes with top drawer connections. Windlestone Hall has a fine

:02:07. > :02:08.Windlestone Hall has a fine Windlestone Hall has a fine

:02:08. > :02:09.Windlestone Hall has a fine pedigree, it was built for one of

:02:09. > :02:10.pedigree, it was built for one of pedigree, it was built for one of

:02:10. > :02:11.North's leading families and it was North's leading families and it was

:02:11. > :02:15.North's leading families and it was the childhood home of British Prime

:02:15. > :02:16.the childhood home of British Prime minister Anthony Eden. We've

:02:17. > :02:26.minister Anthony Eden. We've acknowledged its significance by

:02:27. > :02:30.

:02:30. > :02:31.acknowledged its significance by acknowledged its significance by

:02:31. > :02:32.acknowledged its significance by listing it. The Hall is Grade II

:02:32. > :02:32.listing it. The Hall is Grade II listing it. The Hall is Grade II

:02:32. > :02:34.listing it. The Hall is Grade II Star, the clock tower is also Grade

:02:34. > :02:35.Star, the clock tower is also Grade Star, the clock tower is also Grade

:02:35. > :02:36.II Star. So the architectural II Star. So the architectural

:02:36. > :02:41.II Star. So the architectural qualities of those buildings are

:02:41. > :02:42.qualities of those buildings are significant, very significant.

:02:42. > :02:44.significant, very significant. significant, very significant.

:02:44. > :02:44.Hall came into council hands when Hall came into council hands when

:02:44. > :02:47.Hall came into council hands when the Edens left and the surrounding

:02:47. > :02:48.the Edens left and the surrounding the Edens left and the surrounding

:02:48. > :02:49.estate was auctioned off. It was estate was auctioned off. It was

:02:49. > :02:50.estate was auctioned off. It was estate was auctioned off. It was

:02:50. > :02:51.last used as a school for children last used as a school for children

:02:51. > :02:52.with emotional and behavioral with emotional and behavioral

:02:52. > :02:53.with emotional and behavioral problems, but in 2006 the school

:02:53. > :02:54.problems, but in 2006 the school problems, but in 2006 the school

:02:54. > :02:55.problems, but in 2006 the school was relocated to a new site and the

:02:55. > :02:56.was relocated to a new site and the was relocated to a new site and the

:02:56. > :02:57.Hall was no longer needed.. Hall was no longer needed..

:02:57. > :02:58.Hall was no longer needed.. Concerned about the costs of upkeep,

:02:58. > :03:01.Concerned about the costs of upkeep, Concerned about the costs of upkeep,

:03:01. > :03:04.the council decided to sell. That the council decided to sell. That

:03:04. > :03:05.the council decided to sell. That big one. Pick it up. John

:03:05. > :03:06.big one. Pick it up. John big one. Pick it up. John

:03:06. > :03:07.Cumberland runs a metal recycling Cumberland runs a metal recycling

:03:07. > :03:10.Cumberland runs a metal recycling business in Shildon and lives on

:03:10. > :03:11.business in Shildon and lives on the old Windlestone estate.

:03:11. > :03:13.the old Windlestone estate. the old Windlestone estate.

:03:13. > :03:14.Windlestone Hall is a jewel. We're Windlestone Hall is a jewel. We're

:03:14. > :03:16.Windlestone Hall is a jewel. We're proud this, we're proud of our

:03:16. > :03:16.proud this, we're proud of our proud this, we're proud of our

:03:16. > :03:17.heritage. And Windlestone Hall and heritage. And Windlestone Hall and

:03:17. > :03:18.heritage. And Windlestone Hall and the Eden family I mean, for

:03:18. > :03:19.the Eden family I mean, for the Eden family I mean, for

:03:19. > :03:20.goodness sake, Sir Anthony Eden, goodness sake, Sir Anthony Eden,

:03:20. > :03:21.goodness sake, Sir Anthony Eden, our former prime minister, was

:03:21. > :03:22.our former prime minister, was our former prime minister, was

:03:22. > :03:23.brought up there, during the Second brought up there, during the Second

:03:23. > :03:24.brought up there, during the Second brought up there, during the Second

:03:24. > :03:25.World War it was used as a hospital, World War it was used as a hospital,

:03:25. > :03:26.World War it was used as a hospital, World War it was used as a hospital,

:03:26. > :03:27.it was also a prison, it's been it was also a prison, it's been

:03:27. > :03:29.it was also a prison, it's been used as a school for delicate

:03:29. > :03:30.used as a school for delicate used as a school for delicate

:03:30. > :03:31.children. It's had various uses and children. It's had various uses and

:03:31. > :03:32.children. It's had various uses and children. It's had various uses and

:03:32. > :03:34.the Council have had their pound of the Council have had their pound of

:03:34. > :03:35.the Council have had their pound of the Council have had their pound of

:03:35. > :03:36.flesh out of the place. To me they flesh out of the place. To me they

:03:36. > :03:39.flesh out of the place. To me they flesh out of the place. To me they

:03:39. > :03:40.seem to have discarded it like an seem to have discarded it like an

:03:40. > :03:42.seem to have discarded it like an old rag. The Hall attracted several

:03:42. > :03:43.old rag. The Hall attracted several old rag. The Hall attracted several

:03:43. > :03:44.potential buyers. The front runners potential buyers. The front runners

:03:44. > :03:45.potential buyers. The front runners were property developers who put in

:03:45. > :03:46.were property developers who put in were property developers who put in

:03:46. > :03:47.were property developers who put in a multi million pound bid to do it

:03:47. > :03:48.a multi million pound bid to do it a multi million pound bid to do it

:03:48. > :03:53.up into luxury flats, and build up into luxury flats, and build

:03:53. > :03:54.up into luxury flats, and build up into luxury flats, and build

:03:54. > :03:55.more homes on the site. Until now more homes on the site. Until now

:03:55. > :03:56.more homes on the site. Until now they've never spoken out about the

:03:56. > :03:57.they've never spoken out about the they've never spoken out about the

:03:57. > :03:58.they've never spoken out about the case. We were going to restore the

:03:58. > :03:58.case. We were going to restore the case. We were going to restore the

:03:58. > :03:59.case. We were going to restore the house and keep all of the original

:03:59. > :04:00.house and keep all of the original house and keep all of the original

:04:00. > :04:01.house and keep all of the original features and also to get rid of a

:04:01. > :04:02.features and also to get rid of a features and also to get rid of a

:04:02. > :04:03.lot of the new build that lot of the new build that

:04:03. > :04:04.lot of the new build that surrounded the Hall, which was

:04:04. > :04:05.surrounded the Hall, which was unsightly and certainly

:04:05. > :04:06.unsightly and certainly unsympathetic, and do some

:04:06. > :04:07.unsympathetic, and do some replacement development for that

:04:07. > :04:08.replacement development for that replacement development for that

:04:08. > :04:08.new build, and then potentially new build, and then potentially

:04:08. > :04:09.new build, and then potentially build some further development, out

:04:09. > :04:10.build some further development, out build some further development, out

:04:10. > :04:19.build some further development, out build some further development, out

:04:19. > :04:20.of site of the Hall, in some of the of site of the Hall, in some of the

:04:20. > :04:21.of site of the Hall, in some of the woodland areas. So it could have

:04:21. > :04:22.woodland areas. So it could have woodland areas. So it could have

:04:22. > :04:23.woodland areas. So it could have easily been up to three million.

:04:23. > :04:24.easily been up to three million. easily been up to three million.

:04:24. > :04:26.easily been up to three million. far as we were concerned it was

:04:26. > :04:27.far as we were concerned it was far as we were concerned it was

:04:27. > :04:28.ours. The developers put down a ours. The developers put down a

:04:28. > :04:29.hefty deposit to guarantee hefty deposit to guarantee

:04:29. > :04:30.hefty deposit to guarantee exclusive rights to buy the Hall.

:04:30. > :04:31.exclusive rights to buy the Hall. exclusive rights to buy the Hall.

:04:31. > :04:32.exclusive rights to buy the Hall. You get some idea of what happened

:04:32. > :04:33.You get some idea of what happened You get some idea of what happened

:04:33. > :04:34.next by the sheer volume of next by the sheer volume of

:04:34. > :04:35.correspondence. This is the correspondence. This is the

:04:35. > :04:36.correspondence. This is the conditions laid down by the council

:04:36. > :04:37.conditions laid down by the council conditions laid down by the council

:04:37. > :04:38.conditions laid down by the council and this is the response, the plans.

:04:38. > :04:39.and this is the response, the plans. and this is the response, the plans.

:04:39. > :04:40.and this is the response, the plans. But it all got bogged down in

:04:40. > :04:41.But it all got bogged down in detail. Negotiations lasted months,

:04:41. > :04:45.detail. Negotiations lasted months, detail. Negotiations lasted months,

:04:45. > :04:46.then years, without a sale ever then years, without a sale ever

:04:46. > :04:47.then years, without a sale ever taking place. Bill Kataky was part

:04:47. > :04:48.taking place. Bill Kataky was part taking place. Bill Kataky was part

:04:48. > :04:50.of the council team negotiating of the council team negotiating

:04:50. > :04:51.of the council team negotiating with the developers. He's now

:04:51. > :04:52.with the developers. He's now retired, but remembers having

:04:52. > :04:56.retired, but remembers having serious reservations about the

:04:56. > :04:57.serious reservations about the serious reservations about the

:04:57. > :04:58.plans. It was the additional plans. It was the additional

:04:58. > :05:00.plans. It was the additional building which was classed as

:05:00. > :05:01.building which was classed as building which was classed as

:05:01. > :05:02.enabling development. So to allow enabling development. So to allow

:05:02. > :05:03.enabling development. So to allow the buiding to be restored properly

:05:03. > :05:04.the buiding to be restored properly and subdivided they needed

:05:04. > :05:05.and subdivided they needed and subdivided they needed

:05:05. > :05:06.additional income which would be additional income which would be

:05:06. > :05:13.generated by building other generated by building other

:05:13. > :05:17.properties within the curtilage. properties within the curtilage.

:05:17. > :05:18.properties within the curtilage. That rang alarm bells. But Newroc

:05:18. > :05:19.That rang alarm bells. But Newroc That rang alarm bells. But Newroc

:05:19. > :05:20.were not the only developers who were not the only developers who

:05:20. > :05:25.were not the only developers who were not the only developers who

:05:25. > :05:26.could see the potential of the Hall. could see the potential of the Hall.

:05:26. > :05:27.could see the potential of the Hall. We've learned that a second local

:05:27. > :05:28.We've learned that a second local businessman offered around �1

:05:28. > :05:28.businessman offered around �1 businessman offered around �1

:05:28. > :05:29.businessman offered around �1 million to turn the Hall into his

:05:29. > :05:31.million to turn the Hall into his million to turn the Hall into his

:05:31. > :05:32.private home and commercial HQ. And private home and commercial HQ. And

:05:32. > :05:33.private home and commercial HQ. And we've been told a third developer

:05:34. > :05:34.we've been told a third developer we've been told a third developer

:05:34. > :05:35.expressed an interest and was expressed an interest and was

:05:35. > :05:36.expressed an interest and was prepared to make a serious offer,

:05:36. > :05:37.prepared to make a serious offer, prepared to make a serious offer,

:05:37. > :05:44.but was advised the council already but was advised the council already

:05:44. > :05:45.but was advised the council already had a preferred purchaser. Whilst

:05:45. > :05:46.had a preferred purchaser. Whilst had a preferred purchaser. Whilst

:05:46. > :05:49.had a preferred purchaser. Whilst empty the Hall was put a variety of

:05:49. > :05:50.empty the Hall was put a variety of empty the Hall was put a variety of

:05:50. > :05:50.empty the Hall was put a variety of uses. It was used by the police for

:05:50. > :05:51.uses. It was used by the police for uses. It was used by the police for

:05:51. > :05:52.uses. It was used by the police for dog training and was even a filming

:05:52. > :05:53.dog training and was even a filming dog training and was even a filming

:05:53. > :05:56.location for the BBC drama George location for the BBC drama George

:05:56. > :05:57.location for the BBC drama George Gently. He's still here? You sure?

:05:57. > :06:00.Gently. He's still here? You sure? Gently. He's still here? You sure?

:06:00. > :06:04.He's not collected his deposit. He's not collected his deposit.

:06:04. > :06:05.He's not collected his deposit. Away, man. Look, out. With repairs,

:06:05. > :06:06.Away, man. Look, out. With repairs, Away, man. Look, out. With repairs,

:06:06. > :06:07.security and heating costs running security and heating costs running

:06:07. > :06:07.security and heating costs running security and heating costs running

:06:07. > :06:08.at �100,000 a year, the council ran at �100,000 a year, the council ran

:06:08. > :06:09.at �100,000 a year, the council ran out of patience with the developers

:06:09. > :06:11.out of patience with the developers out of patience with the developers

:06:11. > :06:16.and to their amazement sold the and to their amazement sold the

:06:16. > :06:16.and to their amazement sold the and to their amazement sold the

:06:16. > :06:18.Hall to somebody else. We were told Hall to somebody else. We were told

:06:18. > :06:18.Hall to somebody else. We were told Hall to somebody else. We were told

:06:18. > :06:19.they preferred to sell it, just let they preferred to sell it, just let

:06:19. > :06:20.they preferred to sell it, just let they preferred to sell it, just let

:06:20. > :06:23.it go, forget the planning, and let it go, forget the planning, and let

:06:23. > :06:24.it go, forget the planning, and let it go unconditionally. And we said

:06:24. > :06:25.it go unconditionally. And we said it go unconditionally. And we said

:06:25. > :06:26.right, well, surely if that's the right, well, surely if that's the

:06:26. > :06:27.right, well, surely if that's the right, well, surely if that's the

:06:27. > :06:28.case, it should go back to the case, it should go back to the

:06:28. > :06:29.case, it should go back to the market, or in the very first

:06:29. > :06:30.market, or in the very first market, or in the very first

:06:30. > :06:31.market, or in the very first instance you should talk to us and

:06:31. > :06:32.instance you should talk to us and instance you should talk to us and

:06:32. > :06:35.instance you should talk to us and see if we're prepared to buy it

:06:35. > :06:36.see if we're prepared to buy it see if we're prepared to buy it

:06:36. > :06:37.without the planning. And they said, without the planning. And they said,

:06:37. > :06:38.without the planning. And they said, oh, it's too late, we've already

:06:38. > :06:39.oh, it's too late, we've already oh, it's too late, we've already

:06:39. > :06:40.oh, it's too late, we've already done the deal When the original bid

:06:40. > :06:41.done the deal When the original bid done the deal When the original bid

:06:41. > :06:42.done the deal When the original bid came in for many millions, it's now

:06:42. > :06:43.came in for many millions, it's now came in for many millions, it's now

:06:43. > :06:47.came in for many millions, it's now gone for a fraction of that, what's

:06:47. > :06:48.gone for a fraction of that, what's gone for a fraction of that, what's

:06:48. > :06:49.the explanation? We chose a the explanation? We chose a

:06:49. > :06:51.the explanation? We chose a developer when we marketed it and

:06:51. > :06:52.developer when we marketed it and developer when we marketed it and

:06:52. > :06:53.went through a process. A proper went through a process. A proper

:06:53. > :06:54.went through a process. A proper process. Chose a developer and

:06:54. > :06:54.process. Chose a developer and process. Chose a developer and

:06:54. > :06:56.negotiated with that developer over negotiated with that developer over

:06:56. > :06:57.negotiated with that developer over a three year period. Obviously we

:06:57. > :06:58.a three year period. Obviously we a three year period. Obviously we

:06:58. > :06:59.were hoping there would be some were hoping there would be some

:06:59. > :07:00.were hoping there would be some form of capital receipt through

:07:00. > :07:01.form of capital receipt through form of capital receipt through

:07:01. > :07:02.that process. But as the process that process. But as the process

:07:02. > :07:03.that process. But as the process went on, as the property market

:07:03. > :07:04.went on, as the property market went on, as the property market

:07:04. > :07:05.went on, as the property market changed and we entered a period of

:07:05. > :07:06.changed and we entered a period of changed and we entered a period of

:07:06. > :07:07.recession, it was quite clear that recession, it was quite clear that

:07:07. > :07:08.recession, it was quite clear that recession, it was quite clear that

:07:08. > :07:09.the developer was unable to make a the developer was unable to make a

:07:09. > :07:10.the developer was unable to make a the developer was unable to make a

:07:10. > :07:11.profit from the scheme, and as a profit from the scheme, and as a

:07:11. > :07:11.profit from the scheme, and as a profit from the scheme, and as a

:07:11. > :07:12.result of that we were faced with result of that we were faced with

:07:12. > :07:13.result of that we were faced with the prospect of the development not

:07:13. > :07:14.the prospect of the development not the prospect of the development not

:07:14. > :07:15.going ahead and the council going ahead and the council

:07:15. > :07:16.going ahead and the council retaining the building. Having gone

:07:16. > :07:17.retaining the building. Having gone retaining the building. Having gone

:07:17. > :07:17.through that process we then through that process we then

:07:17. > :07:18.through that process we then received a private offer from

:07:18. > :07:19.received a private offer from received a private offer from

:07:19. > :07:20.somebody who wanted to use the somebody who wanted to use the

:07:20. > :07:21.somebody who wanted to use the property for a private residence

:07:21. > :07:26.property for a private residence property for a private residence

:07:26. > :07:27.and we accepted that offer. and we accepted that offer.

:07:27. > :07:28.and we accepted that offer. then we asked the question, what

:07:28. > :07:30.then we asked the question, what then we asked the question, what

:07:30. > :07:30.then we asked the question, what have you sold it for? And when they

:07:30. > :07:32.have you sold it for? And when they have you sold it for? And when they

:07:32. > :07:33.told us we were horrified, told us we were horrified,

:07:33. > :07:34.told us we were horrified, absolutely horrified. You know, the

:07:34. > :07:35.absolutely horrified. You know, the absolutely horrified. You know, the

:07:35. > :07:36.absolutely horrified. You know, the fact that they could allow it to go

:07:36. > :07:37.fact that they could allow it to go fact that they could allow it to go

:07:37. > :07:38.for �240,000 when we were talking for �240,000 when we were talking

:07:38. > :07:41.for �240,000 when we were talking for �240,000 when we were talking

:07:41. > :07:42.the sort of money we were talking the sort of money we were talking

:07:42. > :07:43.the sort of money we were talking about. �1.5 million to purchase the

:07:43. > :07:43.about. �1.5 million to purchase the about. �1.5 million to purchase the

:07:43. > :07:44.about. �1.5 million to purchase the site and potential gain as well, so

:07:44. > :07:45.site and potential gain as well, so site and potential gain as well, so

:07:45. > :07:49.potentially double that, �3 million, potentially double that, �3 million,

:07:50. > :07:51.potentially double that, �3 million, it just was an nonsense. Friends

:07:51. > :07:51.it just was an nonsense. Friends it just was an nonsense. Friends

:07:51. > :07:52.it just was an nonsense. Friends and colleagues that I do know who

:07:52. > :07:53.and colleagues that I do know who and colleagues that I do know who

:07:53. > :07:54.were, and indeed put, serious bids were, and indeed put, serious bids

:07:54. > :07:58.were, and indeed put, serious bids in for this property, they just

:07:58. > :07:59.in for this property, they just in for this property, they just

:07:59. > :08:00.in for this property, they just seemed to get nowhere. The thing is

:08:00. > :08:01.seemed to get nowhere. The thing is seemed to get nowhere. The thing is

:08:01. > :08:03.when the original sale fell through, when the original sale fell through,

:08:03. > :08:04.when the original sale fell through, they weren't given a second chance.

:08:04. > :08:09.they weren't given a second chance. they weren't given a second chance.

:08:09. > :08:10.they weren't given a second chance. Now, if I'd have been the council.

:08:10. > :08:11.Now, if I'd have been the council. Now, if I'd have been the council.

:08:11. > :08:12.Even in the worst scenario they Even in the worst scenario they

:08:12. > :08:13.Even in the worst scenario they Even in the worst scenario they

:08:13. > :08:15.should have said, OK, why don't we should have said, OK, why don't we

:08:15. > :08:16.should have said, OK, why don't we should have said, OK, why don't we

:08:16. > :08:17.put it up for public auction. If we put it up for public auction. If we

:08:17. > :08:18.put it up for public auction. If we put this property up for public

:08:18. > :08:18.put this property up for public put this property up for public

:08:18. > :08:19.put this property up for public auction I know at least two or

:08:19. > :08:20.auction I know at least two or auction I know at least two or

:08:20. > :08:21.three people who would have started three people who would have started

:08:22. > :08:22.three people who would have started the bidding in the millions, not

:08:22. > :08:23.the bidding in the millions, not the bidding in the millions, not

:08:23. > :08:24.the hundreds of thousands, in the the hundreds of thousands, in the

:08:24. > :08:25.the hundreds of thousands, in the millions. You had one preferred

:08:25. > :08:26.millions. You had one preferred millions. You had one preferred

:08:26. > :08:27.millions. You had one preferred bidder but would you have gone back

:08:27. > :08:28.bidder but would you have gone back bidder but would you have gone back

:08:28. > :08:29.to the original ones. It's nearly to the original ones. It's nearly

:08:29. > :08:30.to the original ones. It's nearly four years ago since we went

:08:31. > :08:31.four years ago since we went four years ago since we went

:08:31. > :08:32.through that process. We had one through that process. We had one

:08:32. > :08:33.through that process. We had one through that process. We had one

:08:33. > :08:35.offer on the table now and that's offer on the table now and that's

:08:35. > :08:35.offer on the table now and that's offer on the table now and that's

:08:35. > :08:36.the one we took. I suppose the the one we took. I suppose the

:08:36. > :08:37.the one we took. I suppose the the one we took. I suppose the

:08:37. > :08:38.question is if I was selling my question is if I was selling my

:08:38. > :08:39.question is if I was selling my question is if I was selling my

:08:39. > :08:40.house and my buyer, who I'm really house and my buyer, who I'm really

:08:40. > :08:41.house and my buyer, who I'm really happy with, pulls out, I would

:08:41. > :08:42.happy with, pulls out, I would happy with, pulls out, I would

:08:42. > :08:43.happy with, pulls out, I would think of going back to the others

:08:43. > :08:43.think of going back to the others think of going back to the others

:08:43. > :08:44.think of going back to the others who had shown an interest. It is

:08:44. > :08:45.who had shown an interest. It is who had shown an interest. It is

:08:45. > :08:46.quite some time ago though, isn't quite some time ago though, isn't

:08:46. > :08:47.quite some time ago though, isn't quite some time ago though, isn't

:08:47. > :08:48.it? I suppose on that basis we felt it? I suppose on that basis we felt

:08:48. > :08:49.it? I suppose on that basis we felt it? I suppose on that basis we felt

:08:49. > :08:50.happy to proceed with the one we happy to proceed with the one we

:08:50. > :08:51.happy to proceed with the one we had. Aware of the multi million

:08:51. > :08:52.had. Aware of the multi million had. Aware of the multi million

:08:52. > :08:53.pound cost of restoration, the new pound cost of restoration, the new

:08:53. > :08:55.pound cost of restoration, the new pound cost of restoration, the new

:08:55. > :08:56.owners opening bid for the Hall was owners opening bid for the Hall was

:08:57. > :08:57.owners opening bid for the Hall was owners opening bid for the Hall was

:08:57. > :08:58.just �1. The council told us they just �1. The council told us they

:08:58. > :08:59.just �1. The council told us they threatened to pull out if the

:08:59. > :09:01.threatened to pull out if the threatened to pull out if the

:09:01. > :09:02.process was opened up to other process was opened up to other

:09:02. > :09:03.process was opened up to other bidders. The new owners say they

:09:03. > :09:04.bidders. The new owners say they bidders. The new owners say they

:09:04. > :09:05.bidders. The new owners say they just want to turn it into a family

:09:05. > :09:06.just want to turn it into a family just want to turn it into a family

:09:06. > :09:07.just want to turn it into a family home and restore it to its former

:09:07. > :09:08.home and restore it to its former home and restore it to its former

:09:08. > :09:09.glory. We have confirmed that, at glory. We have confirmed that, at

:09:09. > :09:10.glory. We have confirmed that, at glory. We have confirmed that, at

:09:10. > :09:11.the time of the sale, no covenants the time of the sale, no covenants

:09:11. > :09:14.the time of the sale, no covenants or restrictions were placed on what

:09:14. > :09:15.or restrictions were placed on what or restrictions were placed on what

:09:15. > :09:15.or restrictions were placed on what could be done here. I would expect

:09:15. > :09:16.could be done here. I would expect could be done here. I would expect

:09:16. > :09:17.any local authority to have looked any local authority to have looked

:09:17. > :09:18.any local authority to have looked at providing some conditions as

:09:18. > :09:19.at providing some conditions as at providing some conditions as

:09:19. > :09:20.at providing some conditions as part of that sale and they can do

:09:20. > :09:21.part of that sale and they can do part of that sale and they can do

:09:21. > :09:22.that through a number of ways, that through a number of ways,

:09:22. > :09:23.that through a number of ways, agreements and so on, legal

:09:23. > :09:24.agreements and so on, legal agreements and so on, legal

:09:24. > :09:25.agreements, and that would be the agreements, and that would be the

:09:25. > :09:26.agreements, and that would be the normal course and that would be

:09:26. > :09:27.normal course and that would be normal course and that would be

:09:27. > :09:33.what all the Government guidance what all the Government guidance

:09:33. > :09:34.what all the Government guidance what all the Government guidance

:09:34. > :09:35.would tell you to do. So when you would tell you to do. So when you

:09:35. > :09:36.would tell you to do. So when you would tell you to do. So when you

:09:36. > :09:37.sold this house, did you put any sold this house, did you put any

:09:37. > :09:38.restrictions, covenants or anything restrictions, covenants or anything

:09:38. > :09:39.restrictions, covenants or anything else to ensure that the heritage

:09:39. > :09:40.else to ensure that the heritage else to ensure that the heritage

:09:40. > :09:41.that you were, in effect handing that you were, in effect handing

:09:41. > :09:42.that you were, in effect handing that you were, in effect handing

:09:42. > :09:46.over, for a price, would be looked over, for a price, would be looked

:09:46. > :09:46.over, for a price, would be looked over, for a price, would be looked

:09:46. > :09:47.after in the future. I'm not aware after in the future. I'm not aware

:09:47. > :09:48.after in the future. I'm not aware that we put any covenants actually

:09:48. > :09:49.that we put any covenants actually that we put any covenants actually

:09:49. > :09:50.that we put any covenants actually over the sale of the building but

:09:50. > :09:51.over the sale of the building but over the sale of the building but

:09:51. > :09:52.obviously if the person who's using obviously if the person who's using

:09:52. > :09:53.obviously if the person who's using obviously if the person who's using

:09:53. > :09:54.it uses it as a private dwelling it uses it as a private dwelling

:09:54. > :09:55.it uses it as a private dwelling house, any changes they need to

:09:55. > :09:56.house, any changes they need to house, any changes they need to

:09:56. > :09:57.house, any changes they need to make to the property to bring it

:09:57. > :09:58.make to the property to bring it make to the property to bring it

:09:58. > :09:58.back to its former condition, all back to its former condition, all

:09:58. > :09:59.back to its former condition, all of those will require Listed

:09:59. > :10:00.of those will require Listed of those will require Listed

:10:00. > :10:01.Building Consent going forward. Any Building Consent going forward. Any

:10:01. > :10:02.Building Consent going forward. Any other changes they want to provide

:10:02. > :10:03.other changes they want to provide other changes they want to provide

:10:03. > :10:04.other changes they want to provide in the future, all of that will, of

:10:04. > :10:05.in the future, all of that will, of in the future, all of that will, of

:10:05. > :10:06.course, come under the council's course, come under the council's

:10:06. > :10:07.course, come under the council's planning authority and will require

:10:07. > :10:09.planning authority and will require planning authority and will require

:10:09. > :10:10.consent from English Heritage as consent from English Heritage as

:10:10. > :10:11.consent from English Heritage as well. I would certainly be very

:10:11. > :10:12.well. I would certainly be very well. I would certainly be very

:10:12. > :10:13.concerned if there are no covenants concerned if there are no covenants

:10:13. > :10:14.concerned if there are no covenants concerned if there are no covenants

:10:14. > :10:15.because then it would be free for because then it would be free for

:10:15. > :10:17.because then it would be free for the developer to virtually do what

:10:17. > :10:18.the developer to virtually do what the developer to virtually do what

:10:18. > :10:19.the developer to virtually do what he likes. I hope it doesn't go in

:10:19. > :10:20.he likes. I hope it doesn't go in he likes. I hope it doesn't go in

:10:20. > :10:21.that direction because I think it's that direction because I think it's

:10:21. > :10:22.that direction because I think it's too important an asset for the

:10:22. > :10:27.too important an asset for the too important an asset for the

:10:27. > :10:28.county as a whole and nationally. county as a whole and nationally.

:10:28. > :10:28.county as a whole and nationally. county as a whole and nationally.

:10:28. > :10:29.The deal and the price tag so The deal and the price tag so

:10:29. > :10:31.The deal and the price tag so infuriated on councilor, he asked

:10:31. > :10:32.infuriated on councilor, he asked infuriated on councilor, he asked

:10:32. > :10:33.auditors to investigate. I think auditors to investigate. I think

:10:33. > :10:34.auditors to investigate. I think auditors to investigate. I think

:10:34. > :10:36.there's a lot of people who aren't there's a lot of people who aren't

:10:36. > :10:37.interested and don't care. interested and don't care.

:10:37. > :10:38.interested and don't care. Unfortunately I like to ask

:10:38. > :10:39.Unfortunately I like to ask Unfortunately I like to ask

:10:39. > :10:40.questions. I'm elected to represent questions. I'm elected to represent

:10:40. > :10:41.questions. I'm elected to represent questions. I'm elected to represent

:10:41. > :10:42.people and I like to see that they people and I like to see that they

:10:42. > :10:43.people and I like to see that they get the best value for their

:10:43. > :10:44.get the best value for their get the best value for their

:10:44. > :10:46.council tax. And right now, they council tax. And right now, they

:10:46. > :10:47.council tax. And right now, they aren't getting best value.

:10:47. > :10:49.aren't getting best value. aren't getting best value.

:10:49. > :10:50.Thursday councilors will debate the Thursday councilors will debate the

:10:50. > :10:51.Thursday councilors will debate the auditor's report. It says the

:10:51. > :10:52.auditor's report. It says the auditor's report. It says the

:10:52. > :10:53.council should have talked to council should have talked to

:10:53. > :10:54.council should have talked to English Heritage before the whole

:10:55. > :10:55.English Heritage before the whole English Heritage before the whole

:10:55. > :10:56.English Heritage before the whole process began. It notes a lack of

:10:56. > :10:57.process began. It notes a lack of transparency and accountability

:10:57. > :10:58.transparency and accountability transparency and accountability

:10:58. > :10:59.when the council decided to when the council decided to

:10:59. > :11:00.when the council decided to remarket the hall in 2010.

:11:00. > :11:01.remarket the hall in 2010. Discussions with the final

:11:01. > :11:04.Discussions with the final Discussions with the final

:11:04. > :11:05.purchaser are described as very purchaser are described as very

:11:05. > :11:06.purchaser are described as very informal. And without the right

:11:06. > :11:07.informal. And without the right informal. And without the right

:11:07. > :11:08.paperwork the auditor says she paperwork the auditor says she

:11:08. > :11:11.paperwork the auditor says she cannot be certain the final sale

:11:11. > :11:12.cannot be certain the final sale cannot be certain the final sale

:11:12. > :11:13.was a good deal. The report was a good deal. The report

:11:13. > :11:18.concludes, the council's reputation concludes, the council's reputation

:11:18. > :11:19.concludes, the council's reputation has been damaged. I just can't

:11:19. > :11:22.has been damaged. I just can't has been damaged. I just can't

:11:22. > :11:23.believe that a body that runs believe that a body that runs

:11:24. > :11:25.believe that a body that runs County Durham. These are the people

:11:25. > :11:25.County Durham. These are the people County Durham. These are the people

:11:25. > :11:26.County Durham. These are the people we pay our rates to and these are

:11:26. > :11:27.we pay our rates to and these are we pay our rates to and these are

:11:28. > :11:28.people who always say we haven't people who always say we haven't

:11:29. > :11:29.people who always say we haven't people who always say we haven't

:11:29. > :11:30.got enough money to do this, we got enough money to do this, we

:11:30. > :11:31.got enough money to do this, we got enough money to do this, we

:11:31. > :11:32.haven't got enough money to do that, haven't got enough money to do that,

:11:32. > :11:33.haven't got enough money to do that, haven't got enough money to do that,

:11:33. > :11:34.and then they just seem to, when and then they just seem to, when

:11:34. > :11:35.and then they just seem to, when and then they just seem to, when

:11:35. > :11:36.they have a pot of gold, given it they have a pot of gold, given it

:11:36. > :11:38.they have a pot of gold, given it they have a pot of gold, given it

:11:38. > :11:39.they have a pot of gold, given it away as if it's a pot of honey.

:11:39. > :11:40.away as if it's a pot of honey. away as if it's a pot of honey.

:11:40. > :11:41.you then confident that this has you then confident that this has

:11:41. > :11:43.you then confident that this has been the best possible value for

:11:43. > :11:44.been the best possible value for been the best possible value for

:11:44. > :11:45.the council? Sitting here, 2013, the council? Sitting here, 2013,

:11:45. > :11:46.the council? Sitting here, 2013, I'm absolutely confident this is a

:11:46. > :11:51.I'm absolutely confident this is a I'm absolutely confident this is a

:11:51. > :11:52.I'm absolutely confident this is a good deal for the Council. 20 years

:11:52. > :11:52.good deal for the Council. 20 years good deal for the Council. 20 years

:11:52. > :11:53.good deal for the Council. 20 years ago the last shipyard on the Tyne

:11:53. > :11:54.ago the last shipyard on the Tyne ago the last shipyard on the Tyne

:11:54. > :11:55.was on the verge of collapse. was on the verge of collapse.

:11:55. > :11:56.Swan Hunter, the world-famous Swan Hunter, the world-famous

:11:56. > :11:57.Swan Hunter, the world-famous shipbuilder, was brought to its

:11:57. > :11:59.shipbuilder, was brought to its shipbuilder, was brought to its

:11:59. > :12:00.knees when it lost one crucial knees when it lost one crucial

:12:00. > :12:03.knees when it lost one crucial order. Receivers moved in to

:12:03. > :12:04.order. Receivers moved in to order. Receivers moved in to

:12:04. > :12:05.salvage what they could. For many salvage what they could. For many

:12:05. > :12:15.salvage what they could. For many of those involved, it's a period

:12:15. > :12:32.

:12:32. > :12:33.of those involved, it's a period Being the best wasn't good enough.

:12:33. > :12:34.Being the best wasn't good enough. Being the best wasn't good enough.

:12:34. > :12:34.The sense of despair and The sense of despair and

:12:34. > :12:36.disappointment on Tyneside disappointment on Tyneside

:12:36. > :12:37.disappointment on Tyneside yesterday will turn to anger and

:12:37. > :12:38.betrayal. betrayal.

:12:38. > :12:39.betrayal. betrayal.

:12:39. > :12:40.1,600 ships and a 133 years of 1,600 ships and a 133 years of

:12:40. > :12:41.shipbuilding. From warships and shipbuilding. From warships and

:12:41. > :12:42.shipbuilding. From warships and luxury liners to supertankers in

:12:42. > :12:42.luxury liners to supertankers in luxury liners to supertankers in

:12:43. > :12:44.luxury liners to supertankers in the 1960s and 70s. Once it was

:12:44. > :12:45.the 1960s and 70s. Once it was unthinkable that shipbuilding at

:12:45. > :12:47.unthinkable that shipbuilding at unthinkable that shipbuilding at

:12:47. > :12:48.Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would

:12:48. > :12:49.Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would

:12:49. > :12:58.ever end. Now it is hard to imagine ever end. Now it is hard to imagine

:12:58. > :12:59.ever end. Now it is hard to imagine that it happened at all.

:12:59. > :13:00.that it happened at all. that it happened at all.

:13:00. > :13:01.When I walked into Swan Hunter's When I walked into Swan Hunter's

:13:01. > :13:11.When I walked into Swan Hunter's this morning it was like desolation

:13:11. > :13:13.

:13:13. > :13:14.this morning it was like desolation this morning it was like desolation

:13:14. > :13:15.this morning it was like desolation row. Her after losing an order for

:13:15. > :13:15.row. Her after losing an order for row. Her after losing an order for

:13:15. > :13:19.row. Her after losing an order for their Royal Navy or Swan Hunter is

:13:19. > :13:19.their Royal Navy or Swan Hunter is their Royal Navy or Swan Hunter is

:13:19. > :13:20.in trouble. British shipbuiding had in trouble. British shipbuiding had

:13:20. > :13:21.in trouble. British shipbuiding had long been in decline, but losing

:13:21. > :13:22.long been in decline, but losing long been in decline, but losing

:13:22. > :13:28.long been in decline, but losing this order to VSEL in Barrow had

:13:28. > :13:29.catastrophic consequences. catastrophic consequences.

:13:29. > :13:30.catastrophic consequences. On that particular morning, Roger

:13:30. > :13:31.On that particular morning, Roger On that particular morning, Roger

:13:31. > :13:32.Vaughan standing at the main gates, Vaughan standing at the main gates,

:13:32. > :13:33.Vaughan standing at the main gates, Vaughan standing at the main gates,

:13:33. > :13:34.pulled us to the side and said the pulled us to the side and said the

:13:34. > :13:35.pulled us to the side and said the company is in financial trouble and

:13:35. > :13:36.company is in financial trouble and company is in financial trouble and

:13:36. > :13:37.company is in financial trouble and we are going to bring the receivers

:13:37. > :13:38.we are going to bring the receivers we are going to bring the receivers

:13:38. > :13:39.in. It was a real bodyblow. in. It was a real bodyblow.

:13:39. > :13:40.in. It was a real bodyblow. When the receivers walked across

:13:40. > :13:41.When the receivers walked across When the receivers walked across

:13:41. > :13:41.When the receivers walked across the yard that day I was really,

:13:41. > :13:42.the yard that day I was really, the yard that day I was really,

:13:42. > :13:43.the yard that day I was really, really down. I thought, "It has got

:13:43. > :13:44.really down. I thought, "It has got really down. I thought, "It has got

:13:44. > :13:45.really down. I thought, "It has got to be the end." They were taking

:13:45. > :13:46.to be the end." They were taking to be the end." They were taking

:13:46. > :13:47.stock of the machinery. We were stock of the machinery. We were

:13:47. > :13:48.stock of the machinery. We were stock of the machinery. We were

:13:48. > :13:49.told to ignore them, but how can told to ignore them, but how can

:13:49. > :13:50.told to ignore them, but how can you? People like that taking the

:13:50. > :13:51.you? People like that taking the you? People like that taking the

:13:51. > :13:52.life blood away, it was awful. life blood away, it was awful.

:13:52. > :13:54.life blood away, it was awful. All around the yard there was

:13:54. > :13:55.All around the yard there was confusion and anxiety.

:13:55. > :13:56.confusion and anxiety. confusion and anxiety.

:13:56. > :13:57.2,200 people worked at Swans, among 2,200 people worked at Swans, among

:13:57. > :14:01.2,200 people worked at Swans, among them Elaine Greenwell and her

:14:01. > :14:02.father. father.

:14:02. > :14:03.father. father.

:14:03. > :14:04.I can remember going to work as I can remember going to work as

:14:04. > :14:05.I can remember going to work as I can remember going to work as

:14:05. > :14:06.normal. We were told we could not normal. We were told we could not

:14:06. > :14:06.normal. We were told we could not normal. We were told we could not

:14:07. > :14:08.go into work, we were locked out go into work, we were locked out

:14:08. > :14:09.go into work, we were locked out because the receivers were in. We

:14:09. > :14:10.because the receivers were in. We because the receivers were in. We

:14:10. > :14:13.were all standing there and nobody were all standing there and nobody

:14:13. > :14:14.were all standing there and nobody would speak to us. I sometimes

:14:14. > :14:15.would speak to us. I sometimes would speak to us. I sometimes

:14:15. > :14:16.would speak to us. I sometimes still feel very angry about it. Why

:14:16. > :14:17.still feel very angry about it. Why still feel very angry about it. Why

:14:17. > :14:24.still feel very angry about it. Why did they close it? It does make you

:14:24. > :14:25.angry. angry.

:14:25. > :14:26.angry. angry.

:14:26. > :14:31.Bill was 61 and had worked in Bill was 61 and had worked in

:14:31. > :14:32.shipyards all his life. shipyards all his life.

:14:32. > :14:33.shipyards all his life. shipyards all his life.

:14:33. > :14:34.Went to work, and was told the Went to work, and was told the

:14:34. > :14:35.Went to work, and was told the receivers were in. You can't take

:14:35. > :14:36.receivers were in. You can't take receivers were in. You can't take

:14:36. > :14:37.your tools out or anything. your tools out or anything.

:14:37. > :14:38.your tools out or anything. Everybody said, "We are taking our

:14:38. > :14:43.Everybody said, "We are taking our Everybody said, "We are taking our

:14:43. > :14:44.tools out, they are ours." tools out, they are ours."

:14:44. > :14:45.tools out, they are ours." we were only appointed this

:14:45. > :14:45.we were only appointed this we were only appointed this

:14:45. > :14:50.afternoon, we have not previously afternoon, we have not previously

:14:50. > :14:51.afternoon, we have not previously set foot in the company.

:14:51. > :14:51.set foot in the company. set foot in the company.

:14:51. > :14:58.set foot in the company. But the workforce had not been told

:14:58. > :14:59.But the workforce had not been told the full story.

:14:59. > :15:00.the full story. the full story.

:15:00. > :15:01.the full story. We had spent a little bit of time

:15:01. > :15:02.We had spent a little bit of time We had spent a little bit of time

:15:02. > :15:03.in the months beforehand in in the months beforehand in

:15:03. > :15:04.confidential discussions with the confidential discussions with the

:15:04. > :15:05.confidential discussions with the confidential discussions with the

:15:05. > :15:06.banks and with the company as to banks and with the company as to

:15:06. > :15:07.banks and with the company as to what the consequences could be if

:15:07. > :15:08.what the consequences could be if what the consequences could be if

:15:08. > :15:11.Swans did not win the major Swans did not win the major

:15:11. > :15:12.Swans did not win the major contract that it was looking for.

:15:12. > :15:13.contract that it was looking for. contract that it was looking for.

:15:13. > :15:14.Your first impression on arrival as Your first impression on arrival as

:15:14. > :15:16.Your first impression on arrival as Your first impression on arrival as

:15:16. > :15:17.Your first impression on arrival as you go down the bank - gulp! A bit

:15:17. > :15:18.you go down the bank - gulp! A bit you go down the bank - gulp! A bit

:15:18. > :15:19.like walking out the tunnel at like walking out the tunnel at

:15:19. > :15:20.like walking out the tunnel at Wembley. Suddenly all the media,

:15:20. > :15:28.Wembley. Suddenly all the media, microphones, cameras, booms waving

:15:28. > :15:29.microphones, cameras, booms waving microphones, cameras, booms waving

:15:29. > :15:30.microphones, cameras, booms waving at you. When the Duke of Edinburgh

:15:30. > :15:31.at you. When the Duke of Edinburgh at you. When the Duke of Edinburgh

:15:31. > :15:32.visited Swans in 1957, John Hall visited Swans in 1957, John Hall

:15:32. > :15:33.visited Swans in 1957, John Hall visited Swans in 1957, John Hall

:15:33. > :15:34.visited Swans in 1957, John Hall was just a young lad - one of tens

:15:34. > :15:35.was just a young lad - one of tens was just a young lad - one of tens

:15:35. > :15:36.of thousands working on the Tyne. of thousands working on the Tyne.

:15:36. > :15:42.of thousands working on the Tyne. He remembers his first cup of

:15:42. > :15:43.riveters' tea. riveters' tea.

:15:43. > :15:43.riveters' tea. riveters' tea.

:15:43. > :15:44.It was in an old white can... It was in an old white can...

:15:44. > :15:54.It was in an old white can... Horrible, but I was too frightened

:15:54. > :15:56.

:15:56. > :15:57.Horrible, but I was too frightened Horrible, but I was too frightened

:15:57. > :15:59.Horrible, but I was too frightened to say no. It was Black's strong,

:15:59. > :16:04.to say no. It was Black's strong, to say no. It was Black's strong,

:16:04. > :16:07.to say no. It was Black's strong, you could stand up Aspin in it. --

:16:07. > :16:08.aspirin. aspirin.

:16:08. > :16:09.aspirin. By 1993, only Swans remained. The

:16:09. > :16:10.By 1993, only Swans remained. The By 1993, only Swans remained. The

:16:10. > :16:16.By 1993, only Swans remained. The yard just had one order for three

:16:16. > :16:17.MoD frigates. MoD frigates.

:16:17. > :16:18.MoD frigates. MoD frigates.

:16:18. > :16:19.We heard that Swan Hunter's did not We heard that Swan Hunter's did not

:16:19. > :16:21.We heard that Swan Hunter's did not get the order when they announced

:16:21. > :16:22.get the order when they announced get the order when they announced

:16:22. > :16:23.get the order when they announced it in Parliament. Just a few hours

:16:23. > :16:24.it in Parliament. Just a few hours it in Parliament. Just a few hours

:16:24. > :16:25.earlier the company was being told earlier the company was being told

:16:25. > :16:31.earlier the company was being told earlier the company was being told

:16:31. > :16:32.that it was all OK. It was snatched away.

:16:32. > :16:33.away. away.

:16:33. > :16:34.A month earlier, the Defence A month earlier, the Defence

:16:34. > :16:35.A month earlier, the Defence Minister, Jonathan Aitken, had left

:16:35. > :16:39.Minister, Jonathan Aitken, had left Minister, Jonathan Aitken, had left

:16:39. > :16:41.the yard in buoyant mood. the yard in buoyant mood.

:16:41. > :16:46.the yard in buoyant mood. the yard in buoyant mood.

:16:46. > :16:48.How impressed are you? I am very How impressed are you? I am very

:16:48. > :16:49.How impressed are you? I am very impressed. They have a finer record

:16:49. > :16:50.impressed. They have a finer record impressed. They have a finer record

:16:50. > :16:57.and a workforce with the highest and a workforce with the highest

:16:57. > :16:57.skill and dedication. skill and dedication.

:16:57. > :16:58.skill and dedication. It was a particularly difficult

:16:58. > :16:59.It was a particularly difficult It was a particularly difficult

:16:59. > :17:00.It was a particularly difficult period for all shipyards in the UK.

:17:00. > :17:01.period for all shipyards in the UK. period for all shipyards in the UK.

:17:01. > :17:03.There were too many shipyards There were too many shipyards

:17:03. > :17:04.chasing too few orders. chasing too few orders.

:17:04. > :17:05.chasing too few orders. I remember being enormously sad

:17:05. > :17:07.I remember being enormously sad I remember being enormously sad

:17:07. > :17:08.I remember being enormously sad that Swan Hunter's had not won it.

:17:08. > :17:11.that Swan Hunter's had not won it. that Swan Hunter's had not won it.

:17:11. > :17:12.My personal favourite was for Swan Hunter's.

:17:12. > :17:13.Hunter's. Hunter's.

:17:13. > :17:14.Hunter's. At the time the MoD did play it

:17:14. > :17:14.At the time the MoD did play it At the time the MoD did play it

:17:14. > :17:15.straight, despite all these rumours straight, despite all these rumours

:17:15. > :17:16.straight, despite all these rumours and conspiracy theories that the

:17:16. > :17:17.and conspiracy theories that the and conspiracy theories that the

:17:17. > :17:18.and conspiracy theories that the bid was being angled one way or

:17:18. > :17:25.bid was being angled one way or bid was being angled one way or

:17:25. > :17:26.another. That simply was not true. another. That simply was not true.

:17:26. > :17:27.another. That simply was not true. another. That simply was not true.

:17:27. > :17:28.The other ship yards were run by The other ship yards were run by

:17:28. > :17:28.The other ship yards were run by The other ship yards were run by

:17:28. > :17:29.big companies, this was run by the big companies, this was run by the

:17:29. > :17:30.big companies, this was run by the little guys, they were the easiest

:17:30. > :17:31.little guys, they were the easiest little guys, they were the easiest

:17:31. > :17:32.little guys, they were the easiest to rub out. It sounds like a TV

:17:32. > :17:33.to rub out. It sounds like a TV to rub out. It sounds like a TV

:17:33. > :17:42.conspiracy, but all the actions conspiracy, but all the actions

:17:42. > :17:43.conspiracy, but all the actions were like a TV conspiracy.

:17:43. > :17:44.were like a TV conspiracy. were like a TV conspiracy.

:17:44. > :17:47.were like a TV conspiracy. And in the pouring rain, men told

:17:47. > :17:48.the news. the news.

:17:48. > :17:49.the news. We explained to them the company

:17:49. > :17:50.We explained to them the company We explained to them the company

:17:50. > :17:52.was in receivership. None of our was in receivership. None of our

:17:52. > :17:52.was in receivership. None of our was in receivership. None of our

:17:52. > :17:53.jobs were safe and, to compound the jobs were safe and, to compound the

:17:53. > :17:54.jobs were safe and, to compound the problem, that there were no wages,

:17:54. > :17:55.problem, that there were no wages, problem, that there were no wages,

:17:55. > :17:56.problem, that there were no wages, bearing in mind they were paid a

:17:56. > :17:57.bearing in mind they were paid a bearing in mind they were paid a

:17:57. > :18:01.month in arrears. They felt they month in arrears. They felt they

:18:01. > :18:03.had been betrayed. had been betrayed.

:18:03. > :18:04.had been betrayed. had been betrayed.

:18:04. > :18:06.When can you tell us? About half an When can you tell us? About half an

:18:06. > :18:07.When can you tell us? About half an When can you tell us? About half an

:18:07. > :18:07.hour is the current time scale. hour is the current time scale.

:18:07. > :18:08.hour is the current time scale. large crowd of media gathered

:18:09. > :18:09.large crowd of media gathered large crowd of media gathered

:18:09. > :18:18.outside Swans so I volunteered to outside Swans so I volunteered to

:18:19. > :18:21.outside Swans so I volunteered to go outside and read the statement.

:18:21. > :18:22.go outside and read the statement. go outside and read the statement.

:18:22. > :18:29.go outside and read the statement. They told me: Sorry, we can not pay

:18:29. > :18:30.They told me: Sorry, we can not pay you for this.

:18:30. > :18:31.you for this. you for this.

:18:31. > :18:35.you for this. I walked out and read the statement

:18:35. > :18:36.I walked out and read the statement that had been agreed.

:18:36. > :18:37.that had been agreed. that had been agreed.

:18:37. > :18:38.OK, everybody ready? This tragic OK, everybody ready? This tragic

:18:38. > :18:39.OK, everybody ready? This tragic OK, everybody ready? This tragic

:18:39. > :18:42.outcome is a bitter blow to a outcome is a bitter blow to a

:18:42. > :18:43.dedicated and superb workforce. dedicated and superb workforce.

:18:43. > :18:44.dedicated and superb workforce. dedicated and superb workforce.

:18:44. > :18:45.dedicated and superb workforce. At the end of it I put down the

:18:45. > :18:46.At the end of it I put down the At the end of it I put down the

:18:46. > :18:47.At the end of it I put down the piece of paper and I said, "Being

:18:47. > :18:53.piece of paper and I said, "Being piece of paper and I said, "Being

:18:53. > :18:54.the best was not good enough." the best was not good enough."

:18:54. > :18:55.the best was not good enough." Fortunately, money was found to pay

:18:55. > :18:56.Fortunately, money was found to pay Fortunately, money was found to pay

:18:56. > :18:57.the workforce so the MoD frigates the workforce so the MoD frigates

:18:57. > :18:58.the workforce so the MoD frigates could be completed. This bought the

:18:58. > :18:59.could be completed. This bought the could be completed. This bought the

:18:59. > :19:01.could be completed. This bought the receivers time to find a buyer for

:19:01. > :19:02.the yard. the yard.

:19:02. > :19:03.the yard. But as each ship was finished,

:19:03. > :19:08.But as each ship was finished, But as each ship was finished,

:19:08. > :19:10.workers were laid off in waves. workers were laid off in waves.

:19:10. > :19:11.workers were laid off in waves. workers were laid off in waves.

:19:11. > :19:12.I was nearly last. I completed one I was nearly last. I completed one

:19:12. > :19:13.I was nearly last. I completed one I was nearly last. I completed one

:19:13. > :19:14.job, manager says, "You have got to job, manager says, "You have got to

:19:14. > :19:15.job, manager says, "You have got to leave the premises," and that was

:19:15. > :19:22.leave the premises," and that was leave the premises," and that was

:19:22. > :19:23.leave the premises," and that was it. Took my tools and scuttled away.

:19:23. > :19:24.it. Took my tools and scuttled away. it. Took my tools and scuttled away.

:19:24. > :19:25.it. Took my tools and scuttled away. My last day was more memorable, got

:19:25. > :19:26.My last day was more memorable, got My last day was more memorable, got

:19:26. > :19:27.My last day was more memorable, got a bottle of Champagne for being the

:19:27. > :19:27.a bottle of Champagne for being the a bottle of Champagne for being the

:19:27. > :19:28.a bottle of Champagne for being the youngest left. I was lucky. I left

:19:28. > :19:29.youngest left. I was lucky. I left youngest left. I was lucky. I left

:19:29. > :19:33.youngest left. I was lucky. I left on the Friday, got another job on

:19:33. > :19:38.the Monday. the Monday.

:19:39. > :19:40.the Monday. Most were not so lucky.

:19:40. > :19:40.Most were not so lucky. Most were not so lucky.

:19:40. > :19:41.Most were not so lucky. I know lots of lads who never

:19:41. > :19:47.I know lots of lads who never I know lots of lads who never

:19:48. > :19:49.worked again. There was no work here, see?

:19:49. > :19:50.here, see? here, see?

:19:50. > :19:50.here, see? I had to report every week to sign

:19:51. > :19:51.I had to report every week to sign I had to report every week to sign

:19:51. > :19:52.I had to report every week to sign on. I thought, "This is wrong. This

:19:52. > :19:56.on. I thought, "This is wrong. This on. I thought, "This is wrong. This

:19:56. > :19:57.on. I thought, "This is wrong. This can't be happening to me." It was a

:19:57. > :19:58.can't be happening to me." It was a can't be happening to me." It was a

:19:58. > :19:59.can't be happening to me." It was a real low time in my life, having to

:19:59. > :20:01.real low time in my life, having to real low time in my life, having to

:20:01. > :20:02.go there every single week. go there every single week.

:20:02. > :20:03.go there every single week. element creeps through even the

:20:03. > :20:06.element creeps through even the element creeps through even the

:20:06. > :20:07.most stoney hearted receiver's view most stoney hearted receiver's view

:20:07. > :20:08.most stoney hearted receiver's view most stoney hearted receiver's view

:20:08. > :20:09.of life. In that sense we, like of life. In that sense we, like

:20:09. > :20:19.of life. In that sense we, like of life. In that sense we, like

:20:19. > :20:22.

:20:22. > :20:24.everyone else, sell the yard as a everyone else, sell the yard as a

:20:24. > :20:25.everyone else, sell the yard as a going concern. We had Corporation,

:20:25. > :20:28.going concern. We had Corporation, going concern. We had Corporation,

:20:28. > :20:31.going concern. We had Corporation, and be could not find a buyer. --

:20:31. > :20:32.Corporation. Corporation.

:20:32. > :20:33.Corporation. Everything was auctioned off and

:20:33. > :20:33.Everything was auctioned off and Everything was auctioned off and

:20:34. > :20:34.the yard was mothballed in 1994. the yard was mothballed in 1994.

:20:34. > :20:35.the yard was mothballed in 1994. Eventually a buyer - Dutch

:20:35. > :20:36.Eventually a buyer - Dutch Eventually a buyer - Dutch

:20:36. > :20:37.millionaire Jaap Kreose - came millionaire Jaap Kreose - came

:20:37. > :20:38.forward and shipbuilding continued forward and shipbuilding continued

:20:38. > :20:39.forward and shipbuilding continued forward and shipbuilding continued

:20:39. > :20:40.on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter

:20:40. > :20:41.on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter

:20:41. > :20:42.does still exist, but as a ship does still exist, but as a ship

:20:42. > :20:48.engineering and design company engineering and design company

:20:48. > :20:49.rather than a shipbuilder. rather than a shipbuilder.

:20:49. > :20:53.rather than a shipbuilder. rather than a shipbuilder.

:20:53. > :20:54.I had never been back since into I had never been back since into

:20:54. > :20:55.I had never been back since into I had never been back since into

:20:55. > :20:56.the yard. To see what had been a the yard. To see what had been a

:20:56. > :21:00.thriving industrial centre, thriving industrial centre,

:21:00. > :21:01.employing many many skilled employing many many skilled

:21:01. > :21:03.employing many many skilled people... To see a concrete slab,

:21:03. > :21:04.people... To see a concrete slab, people... To see a concrete slab,

:21:04. > :21:14.it is heartbreaking. All that had it is heartbreaking. All that had

:21:14. > :21:17.

:21:17. > :21:18.Around the same time the Swan Around the same time the Swan

:21:18. > :21:19.Around the same time the Swan Hunter workers were facing hard

:21:19. > :21:20.Hunter workers were facing hard Hunter workers were facing hard

:21:20. > :21:21.times the Premier League kicked off. times the Premier League kicked off.

:21:21. > :21:22.times the Premier League kicked off. times the Premier League kicked off.

:21:22. > :21:23.You probably do not need me to tell You probably do not need me to tell

:21:23. > :21:24.You probably do not need me to tell You probably do not need me to tell

:21:24. > :21:25.you the cost of following your team you the cost of following your team

:21:25. > :21:26.you the cost of following your team has risen far faster than inflation.

:21:26. > :21:27.has risen far faster than inflation. has risen far faster than inflation.

:21:27. > :21:28.has risen far faster than inflation. A ticket to an away game in London

:21:28. > :21:29.A ticket to an away game in London A ticket to an away game in London

:21:29. > :21:30.A ticket to an away game in London can cost up to �62, before you add

:21:30. > :21:31.can cost up to �62, before you add can cost up to �62, before you add

:21:31. > :21:32.can cost up to �62, before you add in the cost of travel. So you might

:21:32. > :21:33.in the cost of travel. So you might in the cost of travel. So you might

:21:33. > :21:34.be rather envious when you hear be rather envious when you hear

:21:34. > :21:35.be rather envious when you hear what Richard Askham has to say

:21:35. > :21:36.what Richard Askham has to say what Richard Askham has to say

:21:36. > :21:36.what Richard Askham has to say about how fans in Germany fare, it

:21:36. > :21:46.about how fans in Germany fare, it about how fans in Germany fare, it

:21:46. > :22:00.

:22:00. > :22:01.Welcome to the Bundesliga. Welcome to the Bundesliga.

:22:01. > :22:02.Welcome to the Bundesliga. More spectators cram into Germany's

:22:02. > :22:03.More spectators cram into Germany's More spectators cram into Germany's

:22:03. > :22:03.vast stadia than in any other vast stadia than in any other

:22:03. > :22:08.vast stadia than in any other football league in the world.

:22:08. > :22:09.Including England. Including England.

:22:09. > :22:09.Including England. Including England.

:22:09. > :22:10.It is important to point out that It is important to point out that

:22:10. > :22:11.It is important to point out that the Bundesliga remains well behind

:22:11. > :22:12.the Bundesliga remains well behind the Bundesliga remains well behind

:22:12. > :22:13.the Premier League financially, and the Premier League financially, and

:22:13. > :22:14.the Premier League financially, and in global popularity. But will its

:22:14. > :22:15.in global popularity. But will its philosophy of maintaining

:22:15. > :22:15.philosophy of maintaining philosophy of maintaining

:22:15. > :22:22.affordable match tickets prove the affordable match tickets prove the

:22:22. > :22:23.affordable match tickets prove the Right from the time the Premier

:22:23. > :22:24.Right from the time the Premier Right from the time the Premier

:22:24. > :22:24.League was formed in 1992, fans League was formed in 1992, fans

:22:24. > :22:25.League was formed in 1992, fans have grumbled about rising ticket

:22:25. > :22:26.have grumbled about rising ticket have grumbled about rising ticket

:22:26. > :22:33.prices. Yet they have always paid prices. Yet they have always paid

:22:33. > :22:34.up in the end. up in the end.

:22:34. > :22:35.up in the end. But last month, Manchester City

:22:35. > :22:36.But last month, Manchester City But last month, Manchester City

:22:36. > :22:38.But last month, Manchester City fans made what could turn out to be

:22:38. > :22:39.fans made what could turn out to be fans made what could turn out to be

:22:39. > :22:39.a significant gesture. Almost a a significant gesture. Almost a

:22:39. > :22:40.a significant gesture. Almost a third of their ticket allocation

:22:40. > :22:42.third of their ticket allocation third of their ticket allocation

:22:42. > :22:43.for their game at Arsenal went for their game at Arsenal went

:22:43. > :22:44.for their game at Arsenal went unsold. By refusal to fork out,

:22:44. > :22:45.unsold. By refusal to fork out, unsold. By refusal to fork out,

:22:45. > :22:46.unsold. By refusal to fork out, City fans were sending a message to

:22:46. > :22:55.City fans were sending a message to City fans were sending a message to

:22:55. > :22:56.the Premier League. Actually 62 of the Premier League. Actually 62 of

:22:56. > :22:57.the Premier League. Actually 62 of the Premier League. Actually 62 of

:22:57. > :22:59.them. A lot of people say that them. A lot of people say that

:22:59. > :23:00.them. A lot of people say that them. A lot of people say that

:23:00. > :23:01.empty seats will hit the clubs more empty seats will hit the clubs more

:23:01. > :23:03.empty seats will hit the clubs more empty seats will hit the clubs more

:23:03. > :23:04.in the pocket. But from a pack -- in the pocket. But from a pack --

:23:04. > :23:05.in the pocket. But from a pack -- in the pocket. But from a pack --

:23:05. > :23:06.from a fan's point of you, why from a fan's point of you, why

:23:06. > :23:07.from a fan's point of you, why should we be driven away?

:23:07. > :23:08.should we be driven away? should we be driven away?

:23:08. > :23:13.should we be driven away? And fans of other clubs agree with

:23:13. > :23:14.And fans of other clubs agree with And fans of other clubs agree with

:23:14. > :23:16.And fans of other clubs agree with Richard. You used to pay �10 and

:23:16. > :23:17.Richard. You used to pay �10 and Richard. You used to pay �10 and

:23:17. > :23:17.Richard. You used to pay �10 and that was plenty. It is the working

:23:17. > :23:18.that was plenty. It is the working that was plenty. It is the working

:23:18. > :23:20.that was plenty. It is the working man's game but now I feel the

:23:20. > :23:21.man's game but now I feel the man's game but now I feel the

:23:21. > :23:23.working man is being squeezed out working man is being squeezed out

:23:23. > :23:24.working man is being squeezed out working man is being squeezed out

:23:24. > :23:25.working man is being squeezed out of it. A lot of people refuse to go

:23:25. > :23:26.of it. A lot of people refuse to go of it. A lot of people refuse to go

:23:26. > :23:28.of it. A lot of people refuse to go to Tottenham. A lot refused to go

:23:28. > :23:30.to Tottenham. A lot refused to go to Tottenham. A lot refused to go

:23:30. > :23:31.to Tottenham. A lot refused to go to Arsenal. And Chelsea as well. It

:23:31. > :23:32.to Arsenal. And Chelsea as well. It to Arsenal. And Chelsea as well. It

:23:32. > :23:35.is because of the ticket pricing. is because of the ticket pricing.

:23:36. > :23:36.is because of the ticket pricing. is because of the ticket pricing.

:23:36. > :23:37.It is a disgrace. But there are It is a disgrace. But there are

:23:37. > :23:43.It is a disgrace. But there are supporters who will go no matter

:23:43. > :23:44.what. what.

:23:44. > :23:45.what. Mark Palios is the former Chief

:23:45. > :23:46.Mark Palios is the former Chief Executive of the Football

:23:46. > :23:47.Executive of the Football Executive of the Football

:23:47. > :23:47.Association. He has witnessed the Association. He has witnessed the

:23:47. > :23:48.Association. He has witnessed the business of football from many

:23:48. > :23:49.business of football from many business of football from many

:23:49. > :23:50.angles, having played 17 seasons angles, having played 17 seasons

:23:50. > :23:51.angles, having played 17 seasons for Tranmere before becoming a

:23:51. > :23:52.for Tranmere before becoming a for Tranmere before becoming a

:23:52. > :23:57.for Tranmere before becoming a senior Partner at a leading firm of

:23:57. > :23:58.senior Partner at a leading firm of senior Partner at a leading firm of

:23:58. > :24:01.accountants. At tickets and the accountants. At tickets and the

:24:01. > :24:01.accountants. At tickets and the accountants. At tickets and the

:24:02. > :24:04.Premier League to hide? It is an Premier League to hide? It is an

:24:04. > :24:05.Premier League to hide? It is an inescapable conclusion to me. There

:24:05. > :24:06.inescapable conclusion to me. There inescapable conclusion to me. There

:24:06. > :24:07.inescapable conclusion to me. There inescapable conclusion to me. There

:24:07. > :24:08.has to be a limit as to where you has to be a limit as to where you

:24:08. > :24:09.has to be a limit as to where you has to be a limit as to where you

:24:09. > :24:10.has to be a limit as to where you get to. If you look at it and you

:24:10. > :24:11.get to. If you look at it and you get to. If you look at it and you

:24:11. > :24:13.get to. If you look at it and you start to add on travel costs as

:24:14. > :24:15.start to add on travel costs as start to add on travel costs as

:24:15. > :24:17.well, then as a piece of well, then as a piece of

:24:17. > :24:18.well, then as a piece of entertainment for a father with a

:24:18. > :24:19.entertainment for a father with a entertainment for a father with a

:24:19. > :24:20.few kids, you're starting to struggle.

:24:20. > :24:21.struggle. struggle.

:24:21. > :24:23.One former player, who has played One former player, who has played

:24:23. > :24:24.One former player, who has played One former player, who has played

:24:24. > :24:24.at the very top in both England and at the very top in both England and

:24:25. > :24:25.at the very top in both England and at the very top in both England and

:24:25. > :24:31.in Germany, comes down on the side in Germany, comes down on the side

:24:31. > :24:32.in Germany, comes down on the side of hard-pressed supporters. It is

:24:32. > :24:33.of hard-pressed supporters. It is of hard-pressed supporters. It is

:24:34. > :24:35.not just the ticket prices, you not just the ticket prices, you

:24:35. > :24:38.not just the ticket prices, you not just the ticket prices, you

:24:38. > :24:41.have to get down to London as well. have to get down to London as well.

:24:41. > :24:44.have to get down to London as well. And then you're talking about �150

:24:44. > :24:46.And then you're talking about �150 And then you're talking about �150

:24:46. > :24:47.And then you're talking about �150 for an away game. I could have a

:24:47. > :24:48.for an away game. I could have a for an away game. I could have a

:24:48. > :24:55.weekend break in Europe for that weekend break in Europe for that

:24:55. > :24:56.Here in Germany, things could Here in Germany, things could

:24:56. > :24:56.Here in Germany, things could hardly be more different. This is

:24:56. > :24:59.hardly be more different. This is hardly be more different. This is

:24:59. > :25:00.Hannover in the German state of Hannover in the German state of

:25:00. > :25:01.Hannover in the German state of Lower Saxony. Tonight the local

:25:01. > :25:02.Lower Saxony. Tonight the local Lower Saxony. Tonight the local

:25:02. > :25:03.team Hannover 96 are playing in team Hannover 96 are playing in

:25:03. > :25:04.Germany's top league, the Germany's top league, the

:25:04. > :25:05.Germany's top league, the Bundesliga. It is 128 kilometres

:25:05. > :25:06.Bundesliga. It is 128 kilometres Bundesliga. It is 128 kilometres

:25:06. > :25:07.away to Bremen. Quite a distance, away to Bremen. Quite a distance,

:25:07. > :25:08.away to Bremen. Quite a distance, away to Bremen. Quite a distance,

:25:08. > :25:09.away to Bremen. Quite a distance, but it is not a problem for me, or

:25:09. > :25:12.but it is not a problem for me, or but it is not a problem for me, or

:25:12. > :25:13.at least not an expensive one. at least not an expensive one.

:25:13. > :25:14.at least not an expensive one. Because here in Germany my travel

:25:14. > :25:15.Because here in Germany my travel Because here in Germany my travel

:25:15. > :25:16.on public transport in the local on public transport in the local

:25:16. > :25:17.on public transport in the local state comes free with my match

:25:17. > :25:18.state comes free with my match state comes free with my match

:25:18. > :25:19.ticket. In other words, this match ticket. In other words, this match

:25:19. > :25:21.ticket. In other words, this match ticket. In other words, this match

:25:21. > :25:22.ticket doubles up as part of my ticket doubles up as part of my

:25:22. > :25:25.ticket doubles up as part of my ticket doubles up as part of my

:25:25. > :25:26.rail ticket. I will see you at the other end.

:25:26. > :25:27.other end. other end.

:25:27. > :25:28.other end. other end.

:25:28. > :25:29.And when I get to Bremen I can also And when I get to Bremen I can also

:25:29. > :25:30.And when I get to Bremen I can also use my football ticket for all

:25:30. > :25:31.use my football ticket for all use my football ticket for all

:25:31. > :25:41.local public transport, such as local public transport, such as

:25:41. > :25:42.

:25:42. > :25:43.local public transport, such as buses and trams to the stadium.

:25:43. > :25:45.buses and trams to the stadium. buses and trams to the stadium.

:25:45. > :25:47.There seems to be a different There seems to be a different

:25:47. > :25:48.philosophy year. There are philosophy year. There are

:25:48. > :25:52.philosophy year. There are affordable prices for almost every

:25:52. > :25:55.affordable prices for almost every affordable prices for almost every

:25:55. > :25:56.affordable prices for almost every bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros.

:25:56. > :25:57.bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros. bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros.

:25:57. > :25:57.bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros. It is for a standing position but I

:25:58. > :25:59.It is for a standing position but I It is for a standing position but I

:25:59. > :26:02.could have sat down for the could have sat down for the

:26:02. > :26:03.could have sat down for the equivalent of about �25. How much

:26:03. > :26:06.equivalent of about �25. How much equivalent of about �25. How much

:26:06. > :26:11.equivalent of about �25. How much do you pay for your ticket? I paid

:26:11. > :26:14.do you pay for your ticket? I paid do you pay for your ticket? I paid

:26:14. > :26:14.do you pay for your ticket? I paid 30 euros. 13 euros?Yes. A 13. It

:26:15. > :26:24.30 euros. 13 euros?Yes. A 13. It 30 euros. 13 euros?Yes. A 13. It

:26:24. > :26:25.is a little bit expensive. kidding?

:26:25. > :26:26.kidding? kidding?

:26:27. > :26:27.The north of England is where The north of England is where

:26:27. > :26:28.The north of England is where professional football began. It was

:26:28. > :26:29.professional football began. It was professional football began. It was

:26:29. > :26:30.the sport for the masses. Something the sport for the masses. Something

:26:30. > :26:31.the sport for the masses. Something the sport for the masses. Something

:26:31. > :26:32.that most working men, and it was that most working men, and it was

:26:32. > :26:33.that most working men, and it was that most working men, and it was

:26:33. > :26:34.mostly men, could afford to go and mostly men, could afford to go and

:26:34. > :26:34.mostly men, could afford to go and mostly men, could afford to go and

:26:35. > :26:35.watch. But that is a very different watch. But that is a very different

:26:35. > :26:36.watch. But that is a very different era. Today, the beautiful game

:26:36. > :26:41.era. Today, the beautiful game era. Today, the beautiful game

:26:41. > :26:42.stands accused of charging ugly prices.

:26:42. > :26:43.prices. prices.

:26:43. > :26:44.Till the 1990s, watching football Till the 1990s, watching football

:26:44. > :26:44.Till the 1990s, watching football was a relatively cheap past-time.

:26:45. > :26:45.was a relatively cheap past-time. was a relatively cheap past-time.

:26:45. > :26:46.For decades, prices had kept pace For decades, prices had kept pace

:26:47. > :26:47.For decades, prices had kept pace with inflation. But the low prices

:26:48. > :26:48.with inflation. But the low prices with inflation. But the low prices

:26:48. > :26:52.charged to fans for watching charged to fans for watching

:26:52. > :26:53.charged to fans for watching football had its own cost.

:26:53. > :26:54.football had its own cost. football had its own cost.

:26:54. > :26:55.Stadiums became decrepit, which was Stadiums became decrepit, which was

:26:55. > :26:56.Stadiums became decrepit, which was most brutally exposed in the

:26:56. > :27:00.most brutally exposed in the most brutally exposed in the

:27:00. > :27:01.disasters at Valley Parade and Hillsborough.

:27:01. > :27:02.Hillsborough. Hillsborough.

:27:02. > :27:03.The Taylor report that followed The Taylor report that followed

:27:03. > :27:06.Hillsborough recommended all-seater Hillsborough recommended all-seater

:27:06. > :27:07.Hillsborough recommended all-seater stadiums for safety reasons. It

:27:07. > :27:08.stadiums for safety reasons. It stadiums for safety reasons. It

:27:08. > :27:11.also suggested fans be charged �6 also suggested fans be charged �6

:27:11. > :27:12.also suggested fans be charged �6 also suggested fans be charged �6

:27:12. > :27:18.to sit down. In today's money that to sit down. In today's money that

:27:18. > :27:19.is less than �13. is less than �13.

:27:19. > :27:20.is less than �13. We could have picked any Premier

:27:20. > :27:21.We could have picked any Premier We could have picked any Premier

:27:21. > :27:22.League ground in England and the League ground in England and the

:27:22. > :27:23.League ground in England and the League ground in England and the

:27:23. > :27:24.story would be similar. Here at Old story would be similar. Here at Old

:27:24. > :27:25.story would be similar. Here at Old Trafford in 1960, you could stand

:27:25. > :27:26.Trafford in 1960, you could stand Trafford in 1960, you could stand

:27:26. > :27:29.on the Stretford End for 3 on the Stretford End for 3

:27:29. > :27:30.on the Stretford End for 3 shillings and sixpence. That is

:27:30. > :27:31.shillings and sixpence. That is shillings and sixpence. That is

:27:31. > :27:32.about �3.20 in today's money. These about �3.20 in today's money. These

:27:32. > :27:33.about �3.20 in today's money. These days the cheapest seat at Old

:27:33. > :27:34.days the cheapest seat at Old days the cheapest seat at Old

:27:34. > :27:35.Trafford is �42. Allowing for Trafford is �42. Allowing for

:27:35. > :27:41.Trafford is �42. Allowing for inflation, that is �29 more than

:27:41. > :27:42.inflation, that is �29 more than Lord Taylor recommended.

:27:42. > :27:43.Lord Taylor recommended. Lord Taylor recommended.

:27:43. > :27:44.We requested an interview with the We requested an interview with the

:27:44. > :27:44.Chief Executive Premier League, Chief Executive Premier League,

:27:44. > :27:45.Chief Executive Premier League, Richard Scudamore, but he declined.

:27:45. > :27:46.Richard Scudamore, but he declined. Richard Scudamore, but he declined.

:27:46. > :27:47.Richard Scudamore, but he declined. But he did tell BBC radio last

:27:47. > :27:48.But he did tell BBC radio last But he did tell BBC radio last

:27:48. > :27:49.month that the protest by month that the protest by

:27:49. > :27:59.month that the protest by Manchester City fans had not gone

:27:59. > :28:15.

:28:15. > :28:16.The Premier League prides itself on The Premier League prides itself on

:28:16. > :28:17.The Premier League prides itself on The Premier League prides itself on

:28:17. > :28:18.the atmosphere, but I have to say the atmosphere, but I have to say

:28:18. > :28:19.the atmosphere, but I have to say that here inside the Weserstadion

:28:19. > :28:20.that here inside the Weserstadion that here inside the Weserstadion

:28:20. > :28:20.in Bremen is sensational. The in Bremen is sensational. The

:28:21. > :28:21.weather's the same, mind. weather's the same, mind.

:28:21. > :28:22.weather's the same, mind. Weather aside, the Bundesliga and

:28:22. > :28:23.Weather aside, the Bundesliga and Weather aside, the Bundesliga and

:28:23. > :28:24.the Premier League have much in the Premier League have much in

:28:24. > :28:25.the Premier League have much in common. Where they differ currently

:28:25. > :28:26.common. Where they differ currently common. Where they differ currently

:28:26. > :28:26.is over their ticket price is over their ticket price

:28:27. > :28:28.is over their ticket price philosophy. But with political and

:28:28. > :28:28.philosophy. But with political and philosophy. But with political and

:28:28. > :28:29.fan pressure growing in England, fan pressure growing in England,

:28:29. > :28:30.fan pressure growing in England, the Manchester City protest may

:28:30. > :28:36.the Manchester City protest may the Manchester City protest may

:28:36. > :28:37.the Manchester City protest may So what price loyalty? If you have

:28:37. > :28:38.So what price loyalty? If you have So what price loyalty? If you have

:28:38. > :28:39.So what price loyalty? If you have view on the cost of following your

:28:39. > :28:40.view on the cost of following your view on the cost of following your

:28:40. > :28:41.team, you can let me know. team, you can let me know.

:28:41. > :28:46.team, you can let me know. team, you can let me know.

:28:46. > :28:47.That is it for tonight. Next week: That is it for tonight. Next week: