0:00:05 > 0:00:10In the next half an hour, dodgy dealing as we investigate
0:00:10 > 0:00:12the classified ads website hijacked by criminals in Cumbria.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15Do you smoke it yourself?
0:00:15 > 0:00:16Yeah.
0:00:16 > 0:00:21Can you tell the difference?
0:00:21 > 0:00:24Meet the Sunderland entrepreneur whose online dating website targets
0:00:24 > 0:00:29men looking for more than one wife.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32Ten years from now it's not going to be a taboo any more.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35So you were convinced there is a market out there.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37100,000 people already signed up, of course it is.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39And can Cumbria proudly proclaim to be a rainbow County?
0:00:39 > 0:00:42People say, are you a poof?
0:00:42 > 0:00:45I am married, I have two kids.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49I'm Chris Jackson and this is Inside Out.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03Now, what do you have the classified ads for?
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Furniture or a new car?
0:01:06 > 0:01:10Jonathan has been sniffing around in Cumbria where he investigates one
0:01:10 > 0:01:15online site were criminals have an eye for more
0:01:15 > 0:01:24than just a bargain.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27As an investigative journalist it's sometimes easier to work
0:01:27 > 0:01:28when the office is nice and quiet.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30When people aren't watching what you're doing.
0:01:30 > 0:01:36Like investigating the dark web.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40If you're looking for something illegal, it's the go to part
0:01:40 > 0:01:43of the Internet hidden from prying eyes.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45The place where criminals using accepted websites and cryptic
0:01:46 > 0:01:48currencies to treat.
0:01:48 > 0:01:53You don't need to bother with all that?
0:01:53 > 0:01:54I'm sorry?
0:01:54 > 0:01:56You can get all that on Craigslist.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58I'll show you.
0:01:58 > 0:01:59Shouldn't you be getting on with this?
0:01:59 > 0:02:00I've got ten minutes.
0:02:00 > 0:02:08Brilliant.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12Yes, Craigslist.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14It was set up in America by a guy called Craig.
0:02:14 > 0:02:20It's a website where people buy and sell everything,
0:02:20 > 0:02:24and I mean everything.
0:02:24 > 0:02:33Just say where you live and get started.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36Lots of the stuff on craigslist won't be in the buy and sell
0:02:36 > 0:02:39section of your local newspaper including bootleg tobacco.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42The kind of cigarettes you would buy from some dodgy geezer outside
0:02:42 > 0:02:46a pub or in this case a supermarket car park.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48I've literally just started.
0:02:48 > 0:02:51Are they knocked off?
0:02:51 > 0:02:58They can't resell them in shops any more.
0:02:58 > 0:02:59So where do you get them from?
0:02:59 > 0:03:02OK.
0:03:02 > 0:03:10So he's just a middle man.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13He says his supplier is someone else on Craigslist.
0:03:13 > 0:03:14I've seen some crazy stuff on craigslist.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16So have I.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18I'm on my way to another dodgy deal this time
0:03:18 > 0:03:19on the outskirts of Carlisle.
0:03:19 > 0:03:20It is counterfeit?
0:03:20 > 0:03:23Yes.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27And that's why his tobacco is just a third of the price
0:03:27 > 0:03:29of the real stuff.
0:03:29 > 0:03:30Do you smoke it yourself?
0:03:30 > 0:03:32Yes.
0:03:32 > 0:03:33Can you tell the difference?
0:03:33 > 0:03:36I cannot tell.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39But there's a difference because counterfeit goods are among
0:03:39 > 0:03:43the things craigslist says you're not supposed to sell on its website.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45Stuff that's illegal.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47But no one takes any notice of that.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49Do you mind?
0:03:49 > 0:03:53But he's got a point.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55Look at this.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57It's as easy to find marijuana on craigslist
0:03:57 > 0:04:06as it is a second-hand sofa.
0:04:06 > 0:04:12And what I'm buying next could knock you off your feet.
0:04:12 > 0:04:15I'm on a Derby estate meeting a dealer selling
0:04:15 > 0:04:16cocaine on craigslist.
0:04:16 > 0:04:17Ideal.
0:04:17 > 0:04:18See you later.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Cheers.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23The deal done in seconds but is it the real deal?
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Turns out as street cocaine goes it's pretty pure stuff,
0:04:26 > 0:04:30so what's it doing on craigslist?
0:04:30 > 0:04:35I'm shocked it was there because it's not difficult
0:04:35 > 0:04:38for the internet companies to be will to put things on their website
0:04:38 > 0:04:41to police the stuff and they should be policing and taking it down.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44But if you have made money from crime you wouldn't want
0:04:44 > 0:04:46the police to find it.
0:04:46 > 0:04:51What you need is someone to hide it, perhaps in their bank account.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53It's called money laundering but where would I find
0:04:53 > 0:04:59someone to do that?
0:04:59 > 0:05:02On a street corner I'm meeting Stacey.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05She is offering her bank account on craigslist to anyone
0:05:05 > 0:05:08who wants to use it.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19But we are walking into the bank to pay in what I have told
0:05:19 > 0:05:23her is money made from crime.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27She will charge me a fee to get it back and there are plenty of people
0:05:27 > 0:05:29on craigslist offering to do the same thing, sometimes
0:05:29 > 0:05:30through overseas bank accounts.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32But if you have sent your money overseas how
0:05:32 > 0:05:34are you going to get it back?
0:05:34 > 0:05:36What you need is a new identity or somebody else's.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40You again.
0:05:40 > 0:05:42And I know just the place.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44Don't say it.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47Craigslist.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50The place that I can find the stolen passport.
0:05:54 > 0:06:01And there are plenty more where that came from.
0:06:06 > 0:06:09I have known some stories where it has taken people ten years
0:06:09 > 0:06:12to get their credit ratings back again after it has been completely
0:06:12 > 0:06:15trashed by people who have sold their identities but it'll
0:06:15 > 0:06:17allow you to get on and commit other crimes and that is
0:06:18 > 0:06:20why they are doing it.
0:06:22 > 0:06:28And it's not just about selling stuff.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30This advert is looking for postmen to steal the letters
0:06:31 > 0:06:32they are supposed to be delivering.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35On craigslist there is also disorganised crime.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39This man want somebody to pass his driving theory test for him.
0:06:39 > 0:06:44So what's the deal, I go in and take it?
0:06:47 > 0:06:49But for 50 quid, it's not that black and white.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52For a start he is black and I am white and somebody will notice.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59But they check the photo against the database?
0:07:01 > 0:07:05But there is no way I'm going to get through.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19When I later revealed I'm a journalist he didn't
0:07:19 > 0:07:21have anything to say.
0:07:21 > 0:07:22And neither did craigslist.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26When we asked it for an interview, this is what it told us.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28And that came from the top, the chief executive's office.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31It is making money and whilst nobody is turning round and forcing them,
0:07:31 > 0:07:33you will find sites like this using the ostrich effect,
0:07:33 > 0:07:38sticking their head in the sand.
0:07:41 > 0:07:46No wonder criminals can carry on regardless
0:07:46 > 0:07:48but unless they are selling to a journalist.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51I work from the BBC, if you look at that camera.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54I'd like to know...
0:07:54 > 0:08:01Because I'm trying to get out of debt.
0:08:01 > 0:08:02Yes.
0:08:02 > 0:08:08My mother is going to kill me.
0:08:08 > 0:08:14In Carlisle the man selling counterfeit tobacco spots
0:08:14 > 0:08:15as we seal the deal.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18This is the first time I have ever done it,
0:08:18 > 0:08:19you can probably tell.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21I'm trying to make money for my family.
0:08:21 > 0:08:22So you're working for somebody else?
0:08:22 > 0:08:23Yes.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26And how many people like you are working for him?
0:08:26 > 0:08:28I don't know.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30And after telling me he is done selling counterfeit
0:08:31 > 0:08:32tobacco, he is off.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35Or at least, I thought he was.
0:08:40 > 0:08:46Don't forget the goods.
0:08:48 > 0:08:54I thought you weren't selling it on?
0:08:59 > 0:09:01But at least he was talking, next up my cocaine dealer,
0:09:01 > 0:09:04take a good look because he is not hanging around for long.
0:09:04 > 0:09:08The thing is, I work for the BBC and we are trying to find out why
0:09:08 > 0:09:10you are peddling cocaine?
0:09:10 > 0:09:12Why is that?
0:09:17 > 0:09:19He wasn't hanging about, was he?
0:09:19 > 0:09:20How about Stacey?
0:09:20 > 0:09:30Will she want to talk?
0:09:31 > 0:09:34I'm trying to find out why you're willing to launder money for people.
0:09:34 > 0:09:35Why you're doing that, Stacey.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38You knew it was risky, would you like to explain?
0:09:38 > 0:09:40I've got nothing to say to you.
0:09:40 > 0:09:42Just like my passport fee.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45I'm not buying a passport off you because I work from the BBC.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48I want to know why you're selling stolen passports,
0:09:48 > 0:09:53why are you doing it?
0:09:53 > 0:09:55Why are you selling stolen passports?
0:09:55 > 0:10:00How much organised crime that is sitting behind
0:10:00 > 0:10:02that is frightening and it is critical that the police
0:10:02 > 0:10:05force and law enforcement agencies force the likes of craigslist
0:10:05 > 0:10:07to do something about it.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13So what is the government doing?
0:10:13 > 0:10:16When we asked to interview a minister, we got was a Home
0:10:16 > 0:10:20Office statement saying it is...
0:10:22 > 0:10:26We have kind of done that for them already.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28Told you.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31So maybe it is time the government forced websites like craigslist
0:10:31 > 0:10:34to clean up their act.
0:10:40 > 0:10:48Why would a man want multiple wives and why would the women
0:10:48 > 0:10:49want to share her husband?
0:10:49 > 0:10:52Polygamy is becoming more common here in the UK.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55I have been to meet a businessman and Sunderland who has been helping
0:10:55 > 0:10:58men all over the world find a wife, several times over.
0:10:58 > 0:11:01This is the man who markets second wives.
0:11:01 > 0:11:09I am the founder of polygamy.com and secondwife.com.
0:11:09 > 0:11:14The world's first-ever polygamy-based website.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17Even though it is not recognised by the law here he believes
0:11:17 > 0:11:19polygamy is the future.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22The whole idea is to build bigger and better families and tenuous
0:11:22 > 0:11:24and now it will not a taboo.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27You are convinced there is a demand?
0:11:27 > 0:11:32100,000 people are already signed up so of course there is.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40The website is aimed at everyone but the first website
0:11:40 > 0:11:45is specifically aimed at Muslims.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20I welcome you to secondwife.com where you will
0:12:20 > 0:12:22find like-minded brothers and sisters who want
0:12:22 > 0:12:23to revive polygamy.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25His business was founded on recruiting dwelling wives
0:12:25 > 0:12:28from Muslim men as he explained to me in a break at the office.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31It sounds a bit like the man who wants his cake and eat it?
0:12:31 > 0:12:34What's wrong with that?
0:12:34 > 0:12:39There are other ways of doing it, like our fears, prostitution, etc.
0:12:39 > 0:12:40-- affairs.
0:12:40 > 0:12:45And those are not necessarily good for relationships.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47Here is more honourable because you're upfront about it.
0:12:47 > 0:12:53Most Muslims in the UK do not practice polygamy but some
0:12:53 > 0:12:56interpretations of the Koran say a man may marry two or three or even
0:12:56 > 0:12:59four women as long as you can deal justly and feel it
0:12:59 > 0:13:00with each of them.
0:13:00 > 0:13:02So how does that work out in practice?
0:13:02 > 0:13:12I am on my way to meet one couple in Yorkshire to find out.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14Tarek, a doctor, is using the website to find
0:13:14 > 0:13:16a second wife when he met Tracy by chance.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18They got together in February.
0:13:18 > 0:13:19Cosy cottage, log burner.
0:13:19 > 0:13:27I would love a log burner.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30Two horses and we could go riding and go for a romantic picnics.
0:13:30 > 0:13:32Of course.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35I have currently two wives and an ex-wife.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39Lots of Muslim ladies are not married, whether they are growing
0:13:39 > 0:13:43older they have been divorced and nobody is really interested
0:13:43 > 0:13:51audio single mothers, so I thought if I have the ability
0:13:51 > 0:13:54to manage more than one wife then I would like to
0:13:54 > 0:13:55take this opportunity.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58And do people outside of the Islamic faith, friends of yours,
0:13:58 > 0:13:59do they understand?
0:13:59 > 0:14:01Do they get this?
0:14:01 > 0:14:10Quite a few people are asking, how do you manage that?
0:14:10 > 0:14:12It sounds complicated or difficult but once you reach
0:14:12 > 0:14:14an agreement together, you will find it easy.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17I am not just doing it to have, I am doing it together.
0:14:17 > 0:14:18-- to give.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21I thought long and hard about polygamy and I thought this
0:14:21 > 0:14:22could actually work out to my advantage.
0:14:22 > 0:14:26I want to be married to somebody but I still want to be able
0:14:26 > 0:14:28to travel and have my independence.
0:14:29 > 0:14:39So really you're only after a part-time husband?
0:14:39 > 0:14:42Physically it's a part-time husband.
0:14:42 > 0:14:43Emotionally, it is a full-time husband.
0:14:43 > 0:14:45I will do it.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47Which one?
0:14:47 > 0:14:51I will tighten it up, maybe move that up.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53The way I see it, I have the best of everything.
0:14:53 > 0:14:58You signed up for one day a week, has that worked out?
0:14:58 > 0:15:03He's always been very straight with me in what I can manage
0:15:03 > 0:15:06and he did say one day and one night per week.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10Tracy has now asked to renegotiate the marriage contract.
0:15:10 > 0:15:20She wants him for two days every week.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26I found myself being more insecure with my marriage with it being just
0:15:26 > 0:15:27one day and one night.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30And what of his other wife if that means less time with her?
0:15:31 > 0:15:32I do think about my co-wife.
0:15:32 > 0:15:38And the situation she is in.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40They are at home, they have Child number six coming along.
0:15:41 > 0:15:46She does need more support.
0:15:46 > 0:15:51But polygamy is not for everyone.
0:15:51 > 0:15:52When it comes to users of secondwife.com,
0:15:52 > 0:15:53men outnumber women 3-1.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55If somebody is offering themselves up as a second
0:15:55 > 0:15:58wife they may not know what is going on with
0:15:58 > 0:16:01wife they may not know what is going on with the first wife?
0:16:01 > 0:16:04But this is why I encourage everybody to be open so you have
0:16:04 > 0:16:07to get everything on the table.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10Some people might say this is just the guys having their own way
0:16:10 > 0:16:13and they can have fun and women don't have much say.
0:16:13 > 0:16:17It takes two hands to clap and the fact we have so many
0:16:17 > 0:16:26successful marriages and so many women who have signed up themselves.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28Lots of them are highly educated and professionals,
0:16:28 > 0:16:29doctors, teachers, lawyers.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33They are opting to enter this kind of relationship.
0:16:33 > 0:16:38Bigamy, when you marry again before getting divorced,
0:16:38 > 0:16:45can land you in prison for up to seven years, but polygamist
0:16:45 > 0:16:47marriages are marked by spiritual or religious ceremonies
0:16:47 > 0:16:49and as they are not recognised by law there is no reliable
0:16:49 > 0:16:55figure for how many take place in the UK.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58It should be thought of in terms of a hub
0:16:58 > 0:17:00and spoke model where you
0:17:00 > 0:17:03have a central husband with multiple wives will be husband
0:17:03 > 0:17:07is choosing who the wives are, so in a sense the husband has full
0:17:07 > 0:17:11control over every single member of that family.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14Is there a wider impact of polygamy not just on the centre?
0:17:14 > 0:17:17As the country is trying to get a greater sense of equality,
0:17:17 > 0:17:19trying to make some steps towards greater gender equality,
0:17:19 > 0:17:24I think this is something that would be a stumbling block.
0:17:24 > 0:17:34You should be able to just feel his mouth.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37Let your rwins up a bit.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39Within polygamy, do you feel you are an equal partner?
0:17:39 > 0:17:40No.
0:17:40 > 0:17:41I don't.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44As much as it is an experience and I really love Tarek,
0:17:44 > 0:17:47I wouldn't do it again because it is not easy emotionally.
0:17:47 > 0:17:54It really is not.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56According to the Koran, he could find a third wife
0:17:56 > 0:17:59or even a fourth, how would you feel about that?
0:17:59 > 0:18:00I don't want that.
0:18:00 > 0:18:05If he is absolutely adamant that if he wants that,
0:18:05 > 0:18:11I have to think about very strongly my options.
0:18:11 > 0:18:15It is up to the man, as wise as he can be,
0:18:15 > 0:18:19to treat them fairly, so if he doesn't have
0:18:19 > 0:18:22this skill or ability, it might be very difficult to avoid
0:18:22 > 0:18:27a higher chance of jealousy which can cause problems.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30The women have the choice that they can walk away
0:18:31 > 0:18:35from the marriage at any point.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38Back in the office, he has just launched his third
0:18:38 > 0:18:42matchmaking website.
0:18:42 > 0:18:49As part of the practical marriage guide I will give you 100 questions
0:18:49 > 0:18:51to ask your future spouse prior to getting married...
0:18:51 > 0:18:54He believes a lot can be learned from how some Muslims go
0:18:54 > 0:18:58about finding a husband and wife, but he has boundaries.
0:18:58 > 0:19:05Could the natural extension of this a second husband?
0:19:05 > 0:19:10That is not something I personally advocate but if someone wants
0:19:10 > 0:19:12but if someone wants to start that it is their own choice,
0:19:13 > 0:19:14I will not go about protesting.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16What about his personal quest for a second wife?
0:19:16 > 0:19:18So far he has only managed the bag one.
0:19:18 > 0:19:24I am quite picky and when I say that I am quite practical.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27The website came about from my need and thinking if that is going to be
0:19:27 > 0:19:30other people in my situation it is benefiting a lot
0:19:30 > 0:19:32of people and that gives me a lot of satisfaction.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35Myself, my number will come and I am a very patient person
0:19:35 > 0:19:38and I believe in divine decree, that maybe there is a reason
0:19:38 > 0:19:39it has not happened.
0:19:39 > 0:19:45Thank you very much.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47So what do you think?
0:19:47 > 0:19:50Is polygamy is relationship too far simply a private between adults?
0:19:50 > 0:19:55The details are on screen.
0:20:02 > 0:20:0550 years ago, the law changed.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08Being free to live your life as a gay man was no longer illegal
0:20:08 > 0:20:10and since then we have celebrated same-sex civil partnerships
0:20:10 > 0:20:12and marriage, but has everywhere been embracing change
0:20:12 > 0:20:16quite so readily?
0:20:29 > 0:20:32Kendal, 1959, and the local paper has a scoop.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35This court report shocked the town.
0:20:35 > 0:20:3730 men in the dock.
0:20:37 > 0:20:47The newspaper published the names and addresses.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50They would lose their jobs and face disgrace and their crime, the men,
0:20:50 > 0:20:52some of whom were married, were gay and arrested
0:20:52 > 0:20:53on charges of gross indecency.
0:20:53 > 0:20:55The impact on the men would be huge.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58One, a year away from retirement, stood to lose his pension.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01Even the judge was sympathetic.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04If there was anything I could do to write that injustice,
0:21:04 > 0:21:06and I repeat the word injustice, I would do it.
0:21:06 > 0:21:12I am satisfied you have suffered more than you deserve.
0:21:12 > 0:21:15Despite that sense of injustice it would be nearly another decade
0:21:15 > 0:21:18before the sexual offences act freed men to be open about
0:21:18 > 0:21:27their relationships.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31But there is lingering suspicion that it is still tough to be
0:21:31 > 0:21:33gay in rural England than in big metropolitan cities.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39I would be going to find out.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41They pack some punch?
0:21:41 > 0:21:42They do!
0:21:42 > 0:21:46I am quite surprised at how physical they are.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49It is like giving children medicine, they don't like it!
0:21:49 > 0:21:54Simon farms up in the Northern Pennines.
0:21:54 > 0:21:59He chose a family occasion to come out.
0:21:59 > 0:22:04Had you planned to make this part of your 21st birthday
0:22:04 > 0:22:05but that just happen?
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Not really.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09I was starting to date somebody and I thought
0:22:09 > 0:22:12the whole family is here, better to tell everybody.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16So did your family know?
0:22:16 > 0:22:18My mother knew that I hadn't said anything to my father.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20Do you think he knew?
0:22:20 > 0:22:25I spoke to him the day after and we spoke about it
0:22:25 > 0:22:28and he had said if he is gay he will come out when he is ready.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30Have you ever had any hostility directed towards
0:22:30 > 0:22:32you because you're gay?
0:22:32 > 0:22:34Yes.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37Neighbours and stuff.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40Telling other neighbours about us.
0:22:40 > 0:22:46Fortunately they already knew and were absolutely fine with it
0:22:46 > 0:22:48but it always gets back to you what they think
0:22:48 > 0:22:51and what they said but that's just the way they are,
0:22:51 > 0:22:52just nasty people.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57Cumbria pride.
0:22:57 > 0:23:02The county's biggest LGB key event in the calendar is underway.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05-- LGBT.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08Billie has been a Cumbrian drag queen for more than 30 years.
0:23:08 > 0:23:15This is the imperial crown, very heavy to wear.
0:23:15 > 0:23:18I am not wearing that today, I'll willing be much lighter tiara.
0:23:18 > 0:23:19That's a nice one.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23And it was a long time before he ever admitted being gay.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27It was difficult in those days because when I used to do some
0:23:27 > 0:23:31of the clubs people used to say, you poof.
0:23:31 > 0:23:36I am married, I have two kids, so once you start that you have
0:23:36 > 0:23:42to remember you have told a lie.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44Why did you need to tell the lie?
0:23:44 > 0:23:47Because they would've took offence to the fact you are gay
0:23:47 > 0:23:50and you're wearing a frock.
0:23:50 > 0:23:57In the 1970s there was a bar, the witness box, they used to sit
0:23:57 > 0:24:01and watch the gays coming in and sometimes you think,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04I will not go in and just use the toilet and come out again.
0:24:04 > 0:24:07If there were not many you would dart into the witness box.
0:24:07 > 0:24:17So you were being judged at that point?
0:24:18 > 0:24:20In those days, and even nowadays, there's still a lot
0:24:20 > 0:24:21of homophobia in Carlisle.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24Do you think it is because of there's a small community
0:24:24 > 0:24:25that is less tolerance?
0:24:25 > 0:24:28What do you think it comes down to?
0:24:28 > 0:24:30You only have to go one hour and a half down
0:24:30 > 0:24:31the road to Blackpool
0:24:31 > 0:24:34and you can wear whatever you want and nobody bats an eyelid.
0:24:34 > 0:24:38This is a small town on its own and they are just not up
0:24:38 > 0:24:40to speed with equality rights.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45Today in the city, a chance that everybody to express
0:24:45 > 0:24:49who they truly are.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53Mike, another farmer, wishes he had done so years ago.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57I got married at the age of 21 and had both kids by the age of 25
0:24:57 > 0:25:01and principally was living a lie.
0:25:01 > 0:25:06Do you think you continued with this lie because you live
0:25:06 > 0:25:07the rural community?
0:25:07 > 0:25:10Definitely.
0:25:10 > 0:25:12Yes.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16Going to the option and seeing what the class as the norm,
0:25:16 > 0:25:24it just didn't really seem right to be gay and be a farmer.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29Every year the Home Office collates figures sitting at the number
0:25:29 > 0:25:31of reported hate crimes against the LGB key community.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34-- LGBT.
0:25:34 > 0:25:36In Cumbria it is not comfortable reading.
0:25:36 > 0:25:39If you are gay here you are twice as likely to celebrate hate crimes
0:25:39 > 0:25:40of the national average.
0:25:40 > 0:25:44Proportionally that is the highest in England and Wales.
0:25:44 > 0:25:47Just last week a man was sentenced to over two years in prison
0:25:47 > 0:25:54for a homophobic attack on two women in Penrith.
0:25:54 > 0:25:58Any hate crime against anyone is unacceptable
0:25:58 > 0:26:02and we have to act about it.
0:26:02 > 0:26:08I am reassured that our LGBT community actually feel confident
0:26:08 > 0:26:11to come forward and report and I want them to do that,
0:26:11 > 0:26:14and in some ways I am not concerned that the incidents of people
0:26:14 > 0:26:18reporting is necessarily the problem.
0:26:18 > 0:26:22That shows we are coming for a ban telling us about it and we can
0:26:22 > 0:26:24do something about it.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27I have heard from two farmers and the attitudes of people
0:26:27 > 0:26:28more than 30 years ago.
0:26:28 > 0:26:36So what is it like for young people coming out today?
0:26:36 > 0:26:39Do you know that I'm gay?
0:26:39 > 0:26:40No.
0:26:40 > 0:26:43You do now.
0:26:43 > 0:26:44Yeah.
0:26:44 > 0:26:46Have you never had any suspicions?
0:26:46 > 0:26:47No.
0:26:47 > 0:26:48How about you?
0:26:48 > 0:26:53Maybe.
0:26:53 > 0:26:55Ross, who is 19, is part of the you Tube generation,
0:26:55 > 0:26:57so he decided to film telling his parents
0:26:57 > 0:27:00so he decided to film telling his parents for a documentary.
0:27:00 > 0:27:02Everything is fine?
0:27:02 > 0:27:06It's a life choice, that's all it is.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09The fear came from the fact I had never seen a gay person
0:27:09 > 0:27:12around where I live.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16Ross decided to come out just as he was leaving home to start
0:27:16 > 0:27:17university in Salford.
0:27:17 > 0:27:22I never thought there would be such a big reaction online.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24I wasn't expecting the town to come together to show its support.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27And that wasn't all.
0:27:27 > 0:27:29One of the best outcomes from the documentary was getting
0:27:29 > 0:27:32into a relationship with someone from my town, which is quite
0:27:32 > 0:27:34unlikely, because growing up I thought there were hardly any gay
0:27:34 > 0:27:43people in my time.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45This is a real celebration of Cumbria's diversity,
0:27:45 > 0:27:47proof of how far we have come since the court
0:27:47 > 0:27:48reports of the 1950s.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51The people I have met in Cumbria today say that as long
0:27:51 > 0:27:54as we still hear stories of visibility and direct
0:27:54 > 0:27:58discrimination it is important to stand up and be counted.
0:28:02 > 0:28:05Things like this really do bring it out and let them come out
0:28:05 > 0:28:11when they want to and not have to keep it bottled up like I did.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18It is very important to us that we have accepted and we have
0:28:19 > 0:28:21equal rights to everybody else.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26I needed to know that people were OK with that rather than just
0:28:26 > 0:28:28tried to guess myself.
0:28:37 > 0:28:40And that brings us to the end of this week's show.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43Next week, a simple check that is saving the lives of hundreds
0:28:43 > 0:28:49of men across the North.
0:28:52 > 0:28:54I will see you next week, until then, from Lowther Castle
0:28:54 > 0:28:57in Cumbria, good night.
0:29:01 > 0:29:01go. That's it for others to night
0:29:01 > 0:29:01go. That's it for others to night from
0:29:01 > 0:29:01go. That's it for others to night from the
0:29:01 > 0:29:02go. That's it for others to night from the Medway
0:29:06 > 0:29:08Hello, I'm Riz Lateef with your 90 second update.
0:29:08 > 0:29:11The European Commission has denied a report that Theresa May
0:29:11 > 0:29:13"begged" the EU for help in the Brexit talks.
0:29:13 > 0:29:15It's claimed she appeared "anxious" during a dinner
0:29:15 > 0:29:19with the Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, last week.
0:29:19 > 0:29:21Drivers of older, more polluting vehicles,
0:29:21 > 0:29:25will have to pay an extra ten pounds to drive in central London.
0:29:25 > 0:29:27The charge applies to diesel and petrol vehicles
0:29:27 > 0:29:28registered before 2006.