08/09/2014

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:00:15. > :00:21.I've been sat on a beach. Sttton Park. I've been sat in a

:00:22. > :00:27.We can go to a number of different places.

:00:28. > :00:30.We can even use, erm, museuls, anything that will help and have an

:00:31. > :00:34.Forget what you've heard about Britain's fight against extremism.

:00:35. > :00:35.This is the frontline, a cafe near you.

:00:36. > :00:39.These people are often ordinary people,

:00:40. > :00:42.just like me or you who acttally are more concerned with what was the

:00:43. > :00:45.score with Chelsea and Man Tnited last night than foreign polhcy.

:00:46. > :00:47.In public places across the land, Government`approved mentors are

:00:48. > :00:49.talking to extremists, trying to prevent them

:00:50. > :00:57.Three Birmingham men have gone on trial accused of plotting

:00:58. > :01:03.a series of suicide bomb attacks on multiple targets in Brit`in.

:01:04. > :01:06.I grew up in Birmingham and the stuff I hear about the city

:01:07. > :01:17.A Ukrainian student has admhtted murdering an 82`year`old

:01:18. > :01:20.He told police he targeted the grandfather just

:01:21. > :01:24.So I've come back to the city to find out what's going on.

:01:25. > :01:28.I'll ask if Birmingham is now the terror capital of Britahn.

:01:29. > :01:30.There's a pretty serious cltster here, disproportionate to

:01:31. > :01:39.And I'll get rare access to the men and women whose job it hs to

:01:40. > :01:43.Can we stop someone putting on an explosive vest simply

:01:44. > :02:04.Of course, conflict in Birmingham is nothing new.

:02:05. > :02:05.There were the Handsworth rhots in the 80s.

:02:06. > :02:08.And I remember the rise of the National Front.

:02:09. > :02:13.This was the last house my family lived in

:02:14. > :02:20.I spent a lot of my later tdenage life here and you know what?

:02:21. > :02:24.So much is whizzing through my head right now.

:02:25. > :02:28.But what I do remember actu`lly was that there was a big brown fence

:02:29. > :02:32.here that went from the end here all the way around and I remembdr waking

:02:33. > :02:38.up one morning and there was a massive NF sign sprayed hdre in

:02:39. > :02:41.white for the National Front and I never even thought this are` was

:02:42. > :02:46.Saying that, the one thing H can say about Birmingham and the ond thing

:02:47. > :02:50.I'm most proud of about this city is that it is so multicultural.

:02:51. > :02:53.You know, I had mates from `ll across the board and all different

:02:54. > :03:00.And this is one of the things that this city has to be most proud of.

:03:01. > :03:04.But I suspect that something has changed, not just because

:03:05. > :03:07.of all the recent headlines about Britons travelling to Syria to

:03:08. > :03:13.fight for the IS, the Islamhc State, but a something before that.

:03:14. > :03:15.And here's why, 90 days of terror that spre`d fear

:03:16. > :03:25.On April 25th last year, a group of Islamist extremists from

:03:26. > :03:28.Birmingham were jailed for planning what would have been the worst ever

:03:29. > :03:36.The judge said Naseer wanted to turn part of Birmingham

:03:37. > :03:45.Just four days later, 82`ye`r`old Mohammed Saleem was murdered in

:03:46. > :03:54.Ukrainian Pavlo Lapshyn had only been in the country for fivd days.

:03:55. > :03:57.Three weeks later in London, soldier Lee Rigby was murdered

:03:58. > :04:03.In response, two men firebolbed a mosque in Gloucester.

:04:04. > :04:07.And throughout June and Julx, Pavlo Lapshyn continued to target

:04:08. > :04:09.Muslims across the West Midlands, planting bombs at mosques in

:04:10. > :04:17.Two days after his arrest, 2000 English Defence League supporters

:04:18. > :04:24.marched through Birmingham, before the protest descended into violence.

:04:25. > :04:25.For ordinary people across the West Midlands,

:04:26. > :04:29.it was a worrying time, with Islamist and far`right extrdmists

:04:30. > :04:42.But one family more than anx other was caught in the crossfire.

:04:43. > :04:46.Yeah, very happy, he was very good with his grandchildren.

:04:47. > :04:51.Shazia Khan's father was Mohammed Saleem, the grandfather killed by

:04:52. > :04:57.He was stabbed in the back `s he walked home from prayers, mtrdered

:04:58. > :05:05.We had an idea it was a racist attack when my father was

:05:06. > :05:09.killed because things like that just don't happen in our community.

:05:10. > :05:12.It is a multicultural community my dad was very well liked by,

:05:13. > :05:17.But when it transpired that it was a far`right extremist attack, yes,

:05:18. > :05:20.we were stunned, because th`t's not something that you expect to happen

:05:21. > :05:25.My dad was sadistically murdered, you know,

:05:26. > :05:33.The police believe Ukrainian Pavlo Lapshyn acted alone.

:05:34. > :05:37.But his campaign of terror was supported by far`right extrdmists

:05:38. > :05:40.here in Britain, with many of them leaving messages on a website set

:05:41. > :05:52.should have chopped off his beard, should have also beheaded hhm.

:05:53. > :05:55.Oh, it was a good thing, I'm the one that should get the

:05:56. > :05:59.And Shazia believes it's tile the Government took far`right

:06:00. > :06:01.extremism as seriously as the threat from Islamists.

:06:02. > :06:04.It's not about just preventhng and protecting the UK

:06:05. > :06:08.and the non`Muslim communithes, what about the Muslim communities?

:06:09. > :06:11.We also get terrorised, we `lso get threatened, we also get abused.

:06:12. > :06:21.I want to find out just how many extremists in Britain,

:06:22. > :06:29.both Islamist and far`right, have engaged in violence.

:06:30. > :06:31.The Government wouldn't give us a list of names.

:06:32. > :06:39.In the last ten years, 282 people have been convicted

:06:40. > :06:45.of what the Government describes as a "terrorism`related offdnce "

:06:46. > :06:48.And, by using a variety of sources, we've been able to find out where

:06:49. > :06:51.more than 200 of them were living when they were arrested.

:06:52. > :06:53.And here they are, on a terror map of Britain.

:06:54. > :06:56.Every dot represents a convicted terrorist.

:06:57. > :07:00.The blue dots are Islamist extremists, the red dots ard far

:07:01. > :07:03.right extremists and the grden dots represent a mixture of others,

:07:04. > :07:15.These convictions were for a whole variety of terrorism

:07:16. > :07:20.offences, from murder to donating money to radical organisations.

:07:21. > :07:26.And the prison sentences vary hugely, from 12 months to lhfe.

:07:27. > :07:29.Nonetheless, it's clear there are far more blue dots than red ones.

:07:30. > :07:32.To find out why, I've invitdd along academic Dr Mark Littler, who's

:07:33. > :07:34.analysed data collected by the organisation Faith Matters on the

:07:35. > :07:41.I do think that there are a huge number of right`wing

:07:42. > :07:44.The data that Faith Matters have collected indicates th`t

:07:45. > :07:48.there's significantly more than these maps would suggest.

:07:49. > :07:52.In fact, last year they identified that there were 734 of them.

:07:53. > :07:55.Now the issue I think is perhaps that a lot of that happens online,

:07:56. > :07:58.almost 600, I think 599 of the attacks were online.

:07:59. > :08:00.And there's a question mark about how you categorise online

:08:01. > :08:07.Is it merely just unpleasant online extremism?

:08:08. > :08:13.But, overall, how does Birmhngham compare to other cities?

:08:14. > :08:17.London may have the most dots, but they're relatively spre`d out.

:08:18. > :08:22.Whereas parts of Birmingham have a greater concentration,

:08:23. > :08:25.with 26 Islamist extremists coming from the East of the city, clustered

:08:26. > :08:44.The comparison with Manchester is stark.

:08:45. > :08:46.So why has Birmingham got such a high concentration

:08:47. > :08:50.Take this part of Sparkhill, within one mile of where I'm standhng have

:08:51. > :08:54.In terms of convictions, this is the epicentre

:08:55. > :09:00.of the greatest concentration of terrorists in Britain.

:09:01. > :09:03.But it certainly doesn't fedl dangerous walking around here.

:09:04. > :09:05.And that's no surprise, because we're talking about

:09:06. > :09:11.a tiny minority in a city that's home to more than 200,000 Mtslims.

:09:12. > :09:14.We live as a good community and I think there's good people hdre.

:09:15. > :09:18.So we shouldn't be judged bdcause one person's done an act, and we all

:09:19. > :09:27.I request to everybody, comd down, have a look for yourself.

:09:28. > :09:29.Pop into the restaurants, shops or have a little chat

:09:30. > :09:36.Everybody is friendly, we're all family mans.

:09:37. > :09:39.But there's no getting away from the fact that too many people from

:09:40. > :09:45.Hannah Stuart is from the think`tank the Henry Jackson Society.

:09:46. > :09:51.She's researched the backgrounds of hundreds of Islamist terrorists.

:09:52. > :09:53.This particular part of Birlingham is one of a number

:09:54. > :09:56.of areas where the Muslim population is particularly high.

:09:57. > :09:58.It's over three times the city average, 70% of

:09:59. > :10:01.the population here are Muslim and these are the areas that extremists

:10:02. > :10:07.And they're the areas that individuals will

:10:08. > :10:11.start to group together and form networks and that's why you

:10:12. > :10:14.see when you see large cells from Birmingham, all clustered

:10:15. > :10:20.And it historically had grotps like Hizb ut`Tahrir that were

:10:21. > :10:21.targeting it, its Mosques, its Community Centres,

:10:22. > :10:30.And Hannah believes that in most cases the individuals involved

:10:31. > :10:35.have identified more with Mtslims abroad than Britons next door.

:10:36. > :10:40.Some of the early Birminghal cases we see individuals shipping

:10:41. > :10:43.materials and supplies to Al`Qaeda via Pakistan and this is whdn the

:10:44. > :10:46.Government, the British State is at war with Al`Qaeda in Afghanhstan and

:10:47. > :10:50.these individuals are chooshng to side with Britain's enemies over,

:10:51. > :10:57.over the country that is thdir home and that many of them were born in.

:10:58. > :11:05.Is that really what's happening on the streets of Birminghal?

:11:06. > :11:08.To find out, I've come to somewhere that sees its fair share

:11:09. > :11:16.Eastside Boxing Club is just a couple of miles from Sparkhill.

:11:17. > :11:20.Out of curiosity, how many of you guys are Muslims?

:11:21. > :11:22.When you see that stuff on extremism and terrorism,

:11:23. > :11:28.Cos you guys seem like peaceful guys to me.

:11:29. > :11:30.Anger, it actually makes me angry when I see...

:11:31. > :11:33.When I see these guys and they're creating a bad name for us.

:11:34. > :11:37.I actually look at the TV screen and I think, you know what,

:11:38. > :11:41.But these guys use our religion Islam, to erm...

:11:42. > :11:43.convey their stupid message, whatever they've got.

:11:44. > :11:53.But the guys tell me they know people who have been radicalised.

:11:54. > :11:57.If I was to just grab you off the street, and you've got no

:11:58. > :12:00.direction in your life, you haven't got a job, you're at home, living at

:12:01. > :12:03.home with your family, and H come and say to you, here, come, come

:12:04. > :12:06.with me, come with me, let me show you this video.

:12:07. > :12:09.Look at this, man, this is happening to these people,

:12:10. > :12:13.These are your people, they are and I'll fill this,

:12:14. > :12:17.I'll call you every day, I'll come pick you up from your house,

:12:18. > :12:21.Sooner or later, you're making plans to do whatever.

:12:22. > :12:22.From this guy who's brainwashed you,

:12:23. > :12:26.It's happened in Birmingham, it has happened in Birmingh`m to

:12:27. > :12:29.people that some of us know personally and they're bangdd away

:12:30. > :12:38.The guys tell me that many of them have been victimised

:12:39. > :12:41.by the National Front and the EDL, but are not tempted to fight back.

:12:42. > :12:43.Being level`headed and whatever you've got to look at,

:12:44. > :12:46.this person did this to me but that's not that person.

:12:47. > :12:50.Although it's very easy to go into that way of thinking

:12:51. > :12:53.but you don't really get nowhere with that, and I think that's what

:12:54. > :12:59.Basically, this gym and like the boxing has saved md.

:13:00. > :13:03.One or two of us might have been locked up if it wasn't for boxing.

:13:04. > :13:06.Hundreds of Britons travelldd to Syria and that group could hnclude

:13:07. > :13:09.the killer of American journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff.

:13:10. > :13:13.They want Syria Iraq governed under Islamic law,

:13:14. > :13:26.But why leave Britain to fight for that?

:13:27. > :13:29.I've heard about an organis`tion in London which campaigns

:13:30. > :13:32.for the rights of people catght up in the War on Terror.

:13:33. > :13:35.One of its directors, Moazzam Begg, is facing tri`l,

:13:36. > :13:36.accused of terrorism offencds relating to Syria.

:13:37. > :13:39.And his colleague Asim Qureshi doesn't see anything wrong with

:13:40. > :13:42.Britons going to fight in Sxria something currently against the law.

:13:43. > :13:45.What I've always said is th`t if somebody has committed war crimes

:13:46. > :13:48.then they should be held responsible for those, whether it's unddr

:13:49. > :13:51.Islamic law or international law, there should be people being held

:13:52. > :13:54.responsible where those criles are taking place. But the concept that

:13:55. > :13:58.somehow somebody should be criminalised simply because they're

:13:59. > :14:01.willing to put their life on the line in order to do the right

:14:02. > :14:14.When you see people being htrt or are being abused that you h`ve

:14:15. > :14:17.an obligation to do what yot can in that situation and so

:14:18. > :14:22.for a lot of young people throughout that 1400 years of Muslim hhstory.

:14:23. > :14:28.You know, going to fight has been a very, very natural thing to do.

:14:29. > :14:31.And Asim Qureshi tells me that it's the same concern for the plhght

:14:32. > :14:34.of Muslims abroad that's bedn the motivating factor behind most

:14:35. > :14:43.If we look at every single dxample of terrorism that's happened here

:14:44. > :14:46.in the UK, OK, it's been purely based on, from their own words,

:14:47. > :14:54.But these are innocent lives just gone, mate.

:14:55. > :15:01.And it's not a way of justifying any of that.

:15:02. > :15:04.But what I'm saying is that you have to get to the root cause.

:15:05. > :15:08.And the root cause is foreign intervention.

:15:09. > :15:11.And it was foreign intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan that

:15:12. > :15:15.motivated four British Islalists to blow themselves up.

:15:16. > :15:20.In the July 7th bombings in London, 52 innocent people were killed.

:15:21. > :15:22.The pressure on the authorities then, as it is

:15:23. > :15:29.So the Labour Government cale up with a new strategy to try to

:15:30. > :15:34.Its focus was almost entirely on extremism associated with Al`Qaeda.

:15:35. > :15:41.And it was given a simple n`me ` Prevent.

:15:42. > :15:47.By 2008, Prevent had an annual budget of ?86 million

:15:48. > :15:49.The Home Office and the police got half, whhlst a

:15:50. > :15:53.quarter went to the Foreign Office and the rest, almost ?20 million,

:15:54. > :16:01.Well, it's not as easy to find out as you'd think.

:16:02. > :16:09.We submitted Freedom of Information requests to councils across the

:16:10. > :16:15.West Midlands, asking for ddtails of how much was spent and on what.

:16:16. > :16:19.In the three years between 2008 and 2011, a third of councils in the

:16:20. > :16:26.West Midlands were given Prdvent money ` over ?6 million in `ll.

:16:27. > :16:32.Birmingham got by far the most ` more than ?2.5 mhllion.

:16:33. > :16:35.Whilst Coventry, Dudley, East Staffordshire, Sandwell,

:16:36. > :16:42.Stoke, Walsall and Wolverhalpton all got more than ?350,000 dach

:16:43. > :16:45.There were the obvious things ` like training public sector workers

:16:46. > :16:49.to spot signs of extremism `nd teaching Imams to speak English

:16:50. > :16:53.But then there were the less obvious things.

:16:54. > :16:55.This is, um, the niqab where we invited people to

:16:56. > :16:59.stand in and see what it felt like to be fully, fully dressed

:17:00. > :17:03.Friction Arts were given ?14,00 of Prevent money by Birmingham City

:17:04. > :17:05.Council to deliver an inter`ctive art exhibition designed to challenge

:17:06. > :17:18.Now, that pot of money was about preventing violent extremism.

:17:19. > :17:23.I think the Prevent programle, when you read it, it was about

:17:24. > :17:27.enabling people, preventing violent extremism, communicating from

:17:28. > :17:32.the police, creating a, cre`ting a dialogue with communities and I

:17:33. > :17:38.So there are no stats to sax that our project stopped somebodx,

:17:39. > :17:41.but we already know that falilies in Birmingham have absolutely,

:17:42. > :17:46.the minute they found out their son allegedly in Turkey, wasn't,

:17:47. > :17:51.So somewhere, something has worked, the fact that it's not meastrable in

:17:52. > :17:54.the way that this, everybodx wants things to be measurable, dodsn't

:17:55. > :18:01.And community projects right across the country got Prevent mondy.

:18:02. > :18:07.In Walsall, a "Creative Art consultation" got ?7,750.

:18:08. > :18:10.In Wolverhampton, ?3,524 was given to a

:18:11. > :18:20.And in Sandwell, ?3,300 went on "women empowerment workshops .

:18:21. > :18:22.But spending counter`terrorhsm money on social cohesion

:18:23. > :18:29.The thing to remember with the early stages of Prevent was that this was

:18:30. > :18:34.a Government that knew after 7/ that this was a serious problem but

:18:35. > :18:41.And I think the early Prevent was an attempt to try everything,

:18:42. > :18:48.throw money at everything, `ll at the same time and see what stuck.

:18:49. > :18:51.Alan Rudge was the man at Birmingham City Council who had to

:18:52. > :18:57.And he admits some projects were more effective than others.

:18:58. > :19:00.The ones which weren't succdssful, weren't as sufficiently productive,

:19:01. > :19:05.we dropped and we pursued the ones that we thought were most effective.

:19:06. > :19:10.How do you know individuallx that, you know, this year we've t`ken

:19:11. > :19:13.five or six men or women who could be possible terrorists

:19:14. > :19:24.But what we do know is that if you strengthen the community

:19:25. > :19:26.and get a resilience between all the communities to oppose

:19:27. > :19:30.and resist entrapment into that way of life, you know you're saving

:19:31. > :19:36.possible potentially thousands of people being disaffected.

:19:37. > :19:38.But three years ago, the Home Secretary claimed

:19:39. > :19:42.the original Prevent strategy had been deeply flawed.

:19:43. > :19:45.It failed to tackle the extremist ideology that not only undermines

:19:46. > :19:49.the cohesion of our society, but inspires would`be terrorists to

:19:50. > :19:55.seek to bring death and destruction to our towns and cities.

:19:56. > :19:57.So the Government decided to dramatically reduce

:19:58. > :20:00.the role played by local cotncils in preventing extremism.

:20:01. > :20:02.Instead of spending money on whole communities, the focus

:20:03. > :20:07.The priority was to identifx people with extreme views

:20:08. > :20:13.Much of that work is done bx mentors in a programme called Channdl.

:20:14. > :20:17.And for the first time, two of those mentors have been granted pdrmission

:20:18. > :20:22.One of them, who we're callhng John, works with people who've shown

:20:23. > :20:27.He's asked us not to identify him because of sensitivities

:20:28. > :20:33.How serious are the people you deal with?

:20:34. > :20:36.I'll give you one example, this is an extremity, obviotsly

:20:37. > :20:39.And this was a guy who said that he would like to

:20:40. > :20:47.When I asked him who he would put in the camps,

:20:48. > :20:50.he just listed literally evdryone that he didn't see as white,

:20:51. > :20:55.English or British, um, you know, and he really meant it, you know.

:20:56. > :20:57.You know, he idolised Hitler and the Nazis and

:20:58. > :21:02.So that's an extreme though, I mean, I wouldn't want it put across that,

:21:03. > :21:08.Nationally, one in ten referrals to Channel now concern the far right.

:21:09. > :21:10.But the majority of cases involve people at risk

:21:11. > :21:16.Many are referred to mentor Sulaimaan Samuel,

:21:17. > :21:21.who's given a series of one or two hour sessions with the individuals.

:21:22. > :21:23.Can we stop someone putting an explosive vest

:21:24. > :21:29.That type of mentality of wanting to literally destroy

:21:30. > :21:35.that would probably be a person who might not pass through Channel.

:21:36. > :21:39.That person may not get to le because of the type of support and

:21:40. > :21:43.help they need, er, would bd very, very different than the mentoring

:21:44. > :21:47.and the support that I can offer to those vulnerable young people.

:21:48. > :21:50.Um, the people I'm working with are open, they're willing,

:21:51. > :21:57.they want to engage and havd their issues addressed, um, so. .

:21:58. > :22:04.In fact, Channel is a voluntary procdss.

:22:05. > :22:06.It's a kind of "last`chance saloon" offering

:22:07. > :22:12.individuals help, before thdy become of interest to the police.

:22:13. > :22:14.The main tactic the mentors use is to simply challenge the belhefs

:22:15. > :22:19.of the individuals that thex meet, and offer them alternatives.

:22:20. > :22:21.John tells me about a conversation with one young man

:22:22. > :22:27.who claimed he hated all Muslims, following an attack on his family.

:22:28. > :22:29.I got him to count it out on his hand.

:22:30. > :22:32.So I said, right, how many people, how many Muslims attacked

:22:33. > :22:37.And then I said, how many attacked your mum?

:22:38. > :22:39.And I said, OK, that's four, keep going.

:22:40. > :22:41.And he said, what do you me`n, keep going?

:22:42. > :22:44.I said, keep going, you told me you hate all Muslims,

:22:45. > :22:48.you've just given me a decent reason why you would dislike four of them.

:22:49. > :22:52.There's millions of Muslims in the world.

:22:53. > :22:55.And he just hesitated and s`id, well, well, I've never really

:22:56. > :23:00.And Sulaimaan tells me about a young man from Birmhngham

:23:01. > :23:03.who was determined to give loney to Islamist fighters in Syria

:23:04. > :23:09.after viewing images on the internet of fellow Muslims suffering there.

:23:10. > :23:12.Rather than arguing and telling him no don't do that, that's wrong and,

:23:13. > :23:17.What I did was, I explained to him that actually the reason whx you

:23:18. > :23:21.were so passionate about gohng out there to help and sending this money

:23:22. > :23:23.is because you saw all thosd women and children suffering.

:23:24. > :23:26.So actually if you send this money to the people

:23:27. > :23:30.who are out there fighting, is that actually going to fded those

:23:31. > :23:37.Is it going to make their situation better?

:23:38. > :23:39.And he realised no, so I was then able to direct him

:23:40. > :23:43.and say, well look, keep th`t passion, but we're going to try and

:23:44. > :23:46.And you could donate that money to Islamic Relief,

:23:47. > :23:50.to the Red Cross who are dohng work in those countries to help

:23:51. > :23:53.the people who are really stffering who need that money the most.

:23:54. > :23:56.And actually I saw the smild come to his face and that realisation that,

:23:57. > :23:59.Also under the Channel programme ` local authorities and health

:24:00. > :24:02.services get together to trx and help the individuals find housing,

:24:03. > :24:09.So how are people identified as being at risk to radicalhsation?

:24:10. > :24:12.Well, if they're not spotted and referred by the police,

:24:13. > :24:14.it's usually another public sector worker ` like a teacher,

:24:15. > :24:19.That's why many public sector workers are given special training

:24:20. > :24:27.The training is in the form of a workshop and takes

:24:28. > :24:31.But the organisation Cage bdlieves the process forces ordinary people

:24:32. > :24:38.The message that is being sdnt to them is that we're going to treat

:24:39. > :24:43.you like extremists unless xou can prove to us that you're not

:24:44. > :24:47.So we're going to get your doctors and your school teachers and your

:24:48. > :24:50.nursery teachers and your university lecturers and your opticians

:24:51. > :24:54.and everyone to basically tdll us whether or not they think, they

:24:55. > :24:56.believe ` because there's no actual qualitative way

:24:57. > :25:01.of them doing an assessment ` if they believe that you ard some

:25:02. > :25:11.But the head of the West Midlands' Counter Terrorism

:25:12. > :25:14.Unit tells me individuals are only referred to Channel

:25:15. > :25:21.It's not just as simple as ly, you know, there's a boy

:25:22. > :25:23.in a school who's writing something in his school book.

:25:24. > :25:26.Or he's said something in class or my neighbour's growing a be`rd.

:25:27. > :25:28.These, you know, we are talking about a number of significant

:25:29. > :25:31.factors that are present in the behaviour of that individual, um,

:25:32. > :25:39.Last year 93 people in the West Midlands were referred to

:25:40. > :25:43.the authorities as being potentially at risk of violent extremisl,

:25:44. > :25:49.but only 24 actually entered the Channel scheme.

:25:50. > :25:51.I think the reality is the numbers across a multittde

:25:52. > :25:57.So the idea that we are raising awareness amongst a group

:25:58. > :26:00.of professionals who are thdn spying on their patients or childrdn

:26:01. > :26:05.in their school, I don't sed that borne out in the figures.

:26:06. > :26:07.What we're trying to do, just like child safeguarding,

:26:08. > :26:13.is say, um, this agenda, preventing violent extremisl, is

:26:14. > :26:18.as important as preventing ` child from being sexually exploitdd.

:26:19. > :26:20.Um, these are the, some of the signs,

:26:21. > :26:26.Um, if you have a concern, raise that with us.

:26:27. > :26:31.Those on the frontline believe it is.

:26:32. > :26:33.I've never left a session where I think actually, you know,

:26:34. > :26:37.I can't stop here, you know, this guy could still go out and `ttack

:26:38. > :26:40.someone or do something even more serious like a bomb or whatdver

:26:41. > :26:47.So, you know, I do get to the point where I think OK, you might

:26:48. > :26:51.And after all, I'm not therd to necessarily change all their views,

:26:52. > :26:54.it's more about what they'rd going to do with those views.

:26:55. > :26:57.So when I get to that point, I think, yeah, that's OK.

:26:58. > :27:00.But as long as men and women from the Midlands continue to tr`vel to

:27:01. > :27:06.Syria or engage in violent dxtremism here, there will be question marks.

:27:07. > :27:10.The last thing I want to sed is another attack of any kind here

:27:11. > :27:16.But to say that it's never going to happen when you've still got such a

:27:17. > :27:21.hawkish foreign policy and ` quite frankly disgraceful domestic one `

:27:22. > :27:26.you know, unfortunately, we always have to be prepared for that fact.

:27:27. > :27:29.And just try our best to kedp on working to make sure it doesn't

:27:30. > :27:33.The Channel programme is a model that most people tend to

:27:34. > :27:36.But that doesn't mean that we are, we're preventing everybody.

:27:37. > :27:47.There's a long way, there's a long way to go.

:27:48. > :27:54.But if one family can end the cycle of hatred ` maybe we all can.

:27:55. > :27:59.It's a hard one to deal with and it doesn't help, it doesn't help

:28:00. > :28:03.It's something you go through but you have to come out of it,

:28:04. > :28:15.because if you stop at that stage, you'll never heal.

:28:16. > :28:18.Are the authorities getting it right?

:28:19. > :28:44.After all, so much of what we care about depends on it.

:28:45. > :28:47.Next week, the team go undercover to a scam in the pensions industry