:00:09. > :00:15.Hello from Swindon where the number of elderly people is set to double
:00:15. > :00:21.in the next 25 years. Tonight, a special programme looking at the
:00:21. > :00:29.growing challenge of caring for our elderly. In Swindon, the council
:00:29. > :00:33.are preparing to ask the government for help. Also in the programme,
:00:33. > :00:39.BBC Home Editor Mark Easton takes a look at some imaginative solutions
:00:39. > :00:48.to elderly care. It's given me my life, my quality of life has risen
:00:48. > :00:53.like that. We laugh, he makes my -- he makes me roar with laughter. And
:00:53. > :00:56.sometimes I make you laugh. Yes, when you tell dirty jokes!
:00:56. > :01:01.their grandparents desperate see their grandchildren following a
:01:01. > :01:07.family break-up. It is just to me, I am incredibly alone. I don't know
:01:07. > :01:12.that life is going on but it will never come to an end. It's much,
:01:12. > :01:22.much worse than that. A genuine bereavement. Im Alastair McKee and
:01:22. > :01:30.
:01:30. > :01:35.Whether we like it or not, we're all getting older. In fact as a
:01:35. > :01:38.nation, we now on average older than we've ever been before. Here
:01:38. > :01:42.in Swindon, the number of elderly people is set to double over the
:01:42. > :01:48.next to to five years. And with care services already stretched,
:01:48. > :01:53.things are only going to get harder. The demand pressures for about
:01:53. > :01:58.social care at the moment are considerable. -- adopt social care.
:01:58. > :02:01.All the forecasts are that they will be continuing upwards.
:02:02. > :02:07.there is no perfect solution. All there is is a problem we have to
:02:07. > :02:12.deal with, which is an economic problem. But it is not a problem
:02:12. > :02:18.which is going to go away anytime soon. Which means you have got to
:02:18. > :02:22.wonder how we are going to cope in the future.
:02:22. > :02:29.It is lunchtime, and Gemma Jarvis from Prestige Nursing and Care is
:02:29. > :02:33.running late. Despite being on the go since 7am, she has got 20
:02:33. > :02:38.clients to get round, all with different needs, so it is a
:02:38. > :02:48.challenge Keith long-time. It is quite tough to get round everybody.
:02:48. > :02:51.
:02:51. > :03:01.It would be nice to have a chat and a sit-down, maybe a coffee. Hello,
:03:01. > :03:03.
:03:03. > :03:07.Magritte! How you? Margaret Russell is 90 years old. She has diabetes
:03:07. > :03:12.and struggles with her mobility following a recent fall. Her visits
:03:12. > :03:16.from Gemma provide her with a lifeline. First of all in the
:03:16. > :03:23.morning, I get the morning call to be washed and showered. Then at
:03:23. > :03:28.dinner-time, I have meals on wheels. At teatime, eyes have somebody come
:03:29. > :03:35.to do my tea. And then at bedtime, I have someone to come and undress
:03:35. > :03:42.me. Are you off to see your family on Sunday? Magritte is one of three
:03:42. > :03:49.a-half 1000 elderly people intending to have their care paid
:03:49. > :03:55.for by the local authority. -- in Swindon. Elderly care costs the
:03:55. > :04:00.council �16 million per year, about 12% of its entire budget. It is a
:04:00. > :04:04.growing vigour, and to find out why, you have to turn back the clock.
:04:04. > :04:08.This is the head quarter of the council maternity home in Swindon
:04:08. > :04:12.where there is a boom in babies. the years immediately following
:04:12. > :04:21.World War II, the whole country experienced an upsurge in the
:04:21. > :04:24.birthrate. Nowhere was this more acute than in Swindon. After the
:04:24. > :04:29.Second World War, people were encouraged to have more babies. The
:04:29. > :04:36.Queen herself had four children. It was really about having a healthy
:04:36. > :04:41.stock of young people. It was an optimism about the future after the
:04:41. > :04:48.dark days of the war, it was about having more children around to grow
:04:48. > :04:53.up and to create a better world for them. At the same time, Swindon's
:04:53. > :05:00.adult population was been swelled by workers flooding in from around
:05:00. > :05:06.the country, attracted by the booming industry in this town.
:05:06. > :05:11.Since then, sank to a advances in health, diet and medicine, most of
:05:11. > :05:16.these people have gone on to live to a ripe old age. Good news except
:05:16. > :05:19.now we have to work out how to care for them. Swindon's position is it
:05:19. > :05:25.has got to the point where the number of older people in the
:05:25. > :05:28.population are encoring -- are growing, proportionately greater
:05:28. > :05:31.than the younger population. So they are going to need more help
:05:32. > :05:36.with the social services and health services. Four Swindon Borough
:05:36. > :05:42.Council, the challenge of coping with that growing population is
:05:42. > :05:46.already starting to bite. Obviously, government resources to local
:05:46. > :05:51.authorities over the last three years have been going in a downward
:05:52. > :05:57.direction. Twenty-five, 30% reduction. At the same time as the
:05:57. > :06:01.demand for adult social care has been going skywards. Next year, the
:06:01. > :06:07.council will face an increase for demand in elderly care services
:06:07. > :06:14.worth �1 million. Back with Gemma, and she is racing to her next
:06:14. > :06:20.appointment. Unfortunately, her show jaw allows little trouble time
:06:20. > :06:29.between clients so she doesn't hang around. -- unfortunately, her
:06:29. > :06:32.schedule allows little travel time. Hello, Mick, sorry I am eight. Mick
:06:32. > :06:38.Davis is a 74 years old and has chronic obstructive pulmonary
:06:38. > :06:48.disease, which means he is firmly attached to an oxygen supply a.
:06:48. > :06:50.
:06:50. > :06:54.receives for was will top lists from carrots, but he craves quarter
:06:54. > :07:00.-- McRae he craves company. Aaron the morning and then 315
:07:00. > :07:05.minutes, and then the rest of the time, I am just stuck and here
:07:05. > :07:10.looking at the same buildings all the time. It is like being in jail.
:07:10. > :07:16.Sadly, his loneliness is just one symptom of a care system stretching
:07:16. > :07:21.to meet demand in the face of dwindling budgets. Last year, an
:07:21. > :07:24.independent report commissioned by the coalition government described
:07:24. > :07:29.the current system of care funding as confusing, unfair and
:07:29. > :07:36.unsustainable. It made a number of recommendations but at present at
:07:36. > :07:44.the government is yet to of commit to any of them. Meanwhile, in
:07:44. > :07:48.Swindon they are conducting their own inquiry. I have a draft of some
:07:48. > :07:56.of the solutions they are looking at and one word springs out over
:07:56. > :08:05.and over again. Voluntary. It seems that in order to save the amount it
:08:05. > :08:10.cares -- needs to care for the future, Swindon need to rely on
:08:10. > :08:13.voluntary work. At the moment the voluntary sector offers a host of
:08:13. > :08:20.care services that were once provided by local authorities.
:08:20. > :08:25.Things like befriend income activity clubs and even manicures.
:08:25. > :08:30.But are they prepared to take on more work in the future? I think
:08:30. > :08:35.one thing local authorities have to be wary of, but is using volunteers
:08:35. > :08:42.is not free. They have to be supervised, called mated, so it is
:08:42. > :08:46.not a free resource. -- it has to be co-ordinated. That sounds
:08:46. > :08:50.promising but even with a beefed-up voluntary sector, local authorities
:08:50. > :08:54.will need to find more money. A lot more money. In Swindon, we have
:08:54. > :08:59.been making tens of millions of pounds of savings over the last
:08:59. > :09:04.years, and there comes a point where you cannot make savings of
:09:04. > :09:09.that magnitude. And I think we are nearing that point now. We are as
:09:09. > :09:14.lean and mean, if you like, as possible, and efficient as possible
:09:14. > :09:19.to provide the services that are needed. And we need to then say, we
:09:19. > :09:25.have done our bit, central government need to provide more
:09:25. > :09:30.resources. So what does the government make of this plea for
:09:30. > :09:34.extra funds? First of all, we have provided an extra �7.5 billion of
:09:34. > :09:38.the four years to ensure there is sufficient resources going into
:09:38. > :09:42.care services. I recognise that things are very tight in local
:09:42. > :09:48.government, we have this problem that as a government we are
:09:48. > :09:51.spending over �120 billion more in a year than we are bringing in in
:09:51. > :09:58.taxes. Along with providing extra resources, it is also really
:09:58. > :10:04.important that we use the money as effectively as possible. Back with
:10:05. > :10:13.Gemma, and she is still a long way from the end of her 15.5 hour shift.
:10:13. > :10:17.Hello? Sir, Now it is the evening round. It involves getting Eda
:10:17. > :10:23.ready for bed into her pyjamas, and tidying up things are so to tidy
:10:23. > :10:30.for her tomorrow. Given the efforts of Gemma and care workers like her,
:10:30. > :10:34.it is clear that care for the elderly is not something we take
:10:34. > :10:38.lightly. Against the backdrop of a growing elderly population and
:10:38. > :10:48.squeezed budgets, maintaining that standard in the future will be an
:10:48. > :10:52.extraordinary challenge. As we have seen, the challenge of
:10:52. > :10:56.funding elderly care is a thorny issue for local authorities. But
:10:57. > :11:01.there are a growing number of more imaginative ways that do not rely
:11:01. > :11:11.on the public purse at all. BBC Home Editor Mark Easton has been on
:11:11. > :11:13.
:11:13. > :11:17.a tour of England to find out more. I wonder what it is like to be 80.
:11:17. > :11:22.If I live that long, who is going to be there to care for me when I
:11:22. > :11:26.cannot manage? And he was going to pay the bill? They are questions we
:11:26. > :11:30.all ask, because none of us can know how much it is all going to
:11:30. > :11:33.cost. You can spend almost everything before the state stepped
:11:33. > :11:43.in. I am here in York because in this city, some of the elderly have
:11:43. > :11:48.
:11:48. > :11:50.Before you get too decrepit, you can apply to live out your days at
:11:50. > :11:53.Hartrigg Oaks, a community run by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation
:11:53. > :11:57.where residents know that if or when they need nursing care. It's
:11:57. > :12:00.available on site at no extra charge. It's not easy to get in,
:12:00. > :12:05.though. You have to pass a medical. And one of the leasehold bungalows
:12:05. > :12:12.needs to be vacant. It pays to apply early. I am 53. We made the
:12:12. > :12:17.decision to come here at 61. It was easy for us. My parents had died
:12:17. > :12:24.and suddenly we were the oldest people in our family. We came here
:12:24. > :12:28.and suddenly we were the youngest! So there were people 40 years older
:12:28. > :12:32.than me. Hartrigg Oaks offers peace of mind to those who can afford it.
:12:32. > :12:35.Residents pay into a communal pot, something like �170 a month for a
:12:35. > :12:38.60-year-old, a little bit more if you join later. In return, they can
:12:38. > :12:46.be confident that whatever happens to them, they won't get clobbered
:12:46. > :12:49.with care fees they can't afford. You are paying care insurance. You
:12:49. > :12:56.are paying with small increases covering your care, are however
:12:56. > :13:00.much indeed. When you meet -- lead a major care, you can dip into it.
:13:00. > :13:06.All those worries everybody has about what happens, you have
:13:06. > :13:16.answered. We know where our care will take place, and where we will
:13:16. > :13:17.
:13:17. > :13:24.die. To me, that is great and we can get on with living. It seems to
:13:24. > :13:31.me this is a local solution to what many would argue this is the Stig
:13:31. > :13:35.responsibility. -- state responsibility. But the plain fact
:13:35. > :13:38.is that at a time of cuts to public services, the politicians right now
:13:38. > :13:41.simply cannot agree on where they're going to find the money. So
:13:41. > :13:44.the issue just keeps getting kicked into the long grass. The truth is
:13:44. > :13:47.that, despite the recession, Britain is still many times richer
:13:47. > :13:49.in real terms than it was when today's pensioners were born. We
:13:49. > :13:55.can afford to look after them, but in Westminster, seasoned
:13:55. > :13:58.politicians will tell you that priorities lie elsewhere. Is it too
:13:58. > :14:02.ridiculous to imagine the answer to this is to put taxes up so we can
:14:02. > :14:07.pay to look after our elderly? isn't ridiculous to suggest we
:14:07. > :14:10.should use the tax system progress of it look after and care for
:14:10. > :14:15.people in old age. It is ludicrously politically because
:14:15. > :14:20.nobody will touch it with a barge pole. Why not? People are scared
:14:20. > :14:26.about arguing about tax-and-spend, they are scared of the consequences
:14:26. > :14:29.of the economic impact in terms of further depression of our economy.
:14:29. > :14:32.So with taxpayers apparently unable or unwilling to pay for the
:14:32. > :14:37.increasing care demands of the elderly, the search is on for ways
:14:37. > :14:40.to provide help without the need for large amounts of public money.
:14:40. > :14:43.I've come to Wickford in Essex to see one of the country's hundred of
:14:43. > :14:53.so homeshares in action, an idea already very popular on the
:14:53. > :14:56.
:14:56. > :15:02.continent. My husband died in 2002. Gradually, I found I was getting
:15:02. > :15:06.worse. My daughter did some research. She came up with this
:15:06. > :15:16.scheme. She rang up one day and said, how would you feel about a
:15:16. > :15:16.
:15:16. > :15:24.man? Are thought, a man? Why not! The United States pianist? 80-year
:15:24. > :15:28.old Iona was matched with 45-year old Graham, an NHS worker. What the
:15:29. > :15:32.next one? It will come to me. the last two years, they've lived
:15:32. > :15:37.alongside each other here in Iona's home. The deal is that he lives
:15:37. > :15:42.rent free in return for spending around 10 hours a week helping out.
:15:42. > :15:48.You see the advert. This is not a flat share with another NHS worker.
:15:48. > :15:53.This is going to be living with an elderly person. Yes, I take care of
:15:53. > :15:58.the chickens, do the shopping, mow the lawn, I do a few repairs. Keep
:15:58. > :16:03.company. It has allowed you to stay here. I desperately wanted to stay
:16:03. > :16:12.here. I love my House. I intend to be carried out in my coffin from
:16:12. > :16:18.here. It is not free board and lodging, you have become friends.
:16:18. > :16:24.Yes. He has been amazing. He has given me my life, my quality of
:16:24. > :16:33.life has risen, like that. We laugh, he makes me roar with laughter!
:16:33. > :16:36.Sometimes I make you laugh. Yes, You know, it's so nice when you see
:16:36. > :16:40.something that clearly works as well as that does. It's not for
:16:40. > :16:44.everybody. Clearly, the older person needs to have a spare room
:16:44. > :16:47.and their needs I think can't be too severe. Thirdly, and perhaps
:16:47. > :16:56.most importantly, the characters have to be right to get that kind
:16:56. > :17:01.of special relationship. So it is an answer, but it's not the answer.
:17:01. > :17:05.We need a holistic answer that mobilises and supports families
:17:05. > :17:11.with caring, that gets the community involved, that gets
:17:11. > :17:13.younger people active as part of the solution. And over on the Isle
:17:13. > :17:18.of Wight, there's a unique social experiment being piloted that aims
:17:18. > :17:23.to do just that. It's called Care4Care and, again, the idea is
:17:23. > :17:28.simple. For every hour of voluntary care that people put in for their
:17:28. > :17:31.elderly neighbours... They build up an hour's worth of care credit that
:17:31. > :17:40.they can keep in a time bank and then use for their own care later
:17:40. > :17:43.in life. One of the youngest of the 150 or so members who've signed up
:17:43. > :17:52.for the pilot scheme is 36-year old Lewis, who's been helping out 87-
:17:53. > :17:56.year-old Pearl. I have been coming to see her about six months now. I
:17:56. > :18:02.have notched up 20 hours and I would like to think those hours
:18:02. > :18:08.have been banked I that helping my mother or myself if and when I
:18:08. > :18:13.needed. I spend quite a lot of time talking to him and he talks to me.
:18:13. > :18:16.That is a big help to me because... People don't come. Care4Care is the
:18:17. > :18:26.brainchild of Professor Heinz Woolf, who hopes it will play a key part
:18:27. > :18:27.
:18:27. > :18:31.in solving the care crisis. I hope that over the next three years, we
:18:31. > :18:36.will build it into a large scheme. I hope there might be one million
:18:36. > :18:42.members. The problem is whether the next generation is sufficiently
:18:42. > :18:47.keen to ensure safety in their own age to invest the hours which will
:18:47. > :18:50.buy them their care. Here in Westminster, of course, the talk is
:18:50. > :18:54.all about cuts and austerity, not spending billions more caring for
:18:54. > :18:57.our elderly. So the responsibility falls on wider society, on
:18:57. > :19:07.communities, on neighbourhoods, on families, to fill that gap and help
:19:07. > :19:16.
:19:16. > :19:20.all of us feel more confident about In our final film, we need the
:19:20. > :19:26.forgotten victims of family break- up. Grand parents to lose touch
:19:26. > :19:30.with their grandchildren. There is now hope that new shared parenting
:19:30. > :19:38.legislation will allow grand parents to keep that vital contact
:19:38. > :19:47.with their grandchildren. We haven't had any contact with our
:19:48. > :19:57.granddaughter since 2007. Grief. It is continuous, daily grief. There
:19:58. > :20:01.
:20:01. > :20:07.isn't a single day... Excuse me. People call it living bereavement.
:20:07. > :20:15.I think that has proven it, really. Sometimes, you don't need words,
:20:15. > :20:20.and that is one of them. There are over a million
:20:20. > :20:28.grandchildren across the UK who are denied access to their grandparents.
:20:28. > :20:32.So this Bristol granny decided to take action. In the early days,
:20:32. > :20:37.when this first happened, I didn't have any support, so I made it my
:20:37. > :20:42.mission to try to provide that support, which is what I did. I
:20:43. > :20:45.have been contacted by over 700 grand parents to date. As well as
:20:46. > :20:53.running a support group, she's lobbying her MP for a change in
:20:53. > :20:57.legislation in favour of shared parenting. If this opportunity
:20:57. > :21:02.slips through your fingers now, we will not get it again for another
:21:02. > :21:11.decade. When their son was first divorced, Jane and Marc got to
:21:11. > :21:14.spend time with their granddaughter. When she used to come here, she
:21:14. > :21:21.would... The summer House would be a place. She would paint and draw
:21:21. > :21:25.and read. We would take her out, teach her things, and we used to
:21:25. > :21:28.have a lot of fun. But five years ago, there were warning signs that
:21:28. > :21:31.things were not as they should be. Five years ago, the relationship
:21:31. > :21:33.deteriorated and since then Jane and Marc haven't been able to see
:21:34. > :21:36.their granddaughter Grandparents do not have an automatic legal right
:21:36. > :21:39.to see their grandchildren following a family breakup. I cried
:21:39. > :21:42.a lot. You feel as though you should be able to make things right
:21:42. > :21:49.because you are older and, hopefully, a little wiser. Does
:21:49. > :21:52.your family falling apart, it is absolutely heartbreaking. And then
:21:52. > :21:57.the realisation it is out of your control and there isn't anything
:21:57. > :22:01.you can do about it. Grand parents do not have an automatic legal
:22:01. > :22:07.right to see their grandchildren following a family break-up. They
:22:07. > :22:12.must apply through the courts for access. For us, it is not something
:22:12. > :22:17.I would advise Grand parents to do. That is for a variety of reasons.
:22:17. > :22:20.It is incredibly emotionally stressful for all concerned. It is
:22:20. > :22:25.incredibly expensive as well. We have grandparents to have spent
:22:25. > :22:30.their entire life savings on going to court to try to get contact and
:22:30. > :22:35.still not getting any contact. The reality of that is also that even
:22:35. > :22:39.if a contact order is granted, if the resident parent decides not to
:22:39. > :22:43.turn up at the agreed time and place, you have to go back to court
:22:44. > :22:47.and you are back to square one. children had the legal right to see
:22:47. > :22:52.both their parents following divorce, it is hoped this could
:22:52. > :22:56.help them keep contact with their grand parents as well. At her
:22:56. > :23:01.support group, there are plenty of grandparents who would like to see
:23:02. > :23:08.this shared parenting happen. have been getting increasing calls
:23:09. > :23:12.from grandparents who have either had or have had on warning or
:23:12. > :23:17.harassment borders issued to them because they have sent birthday
:23:17. > :23:20.presents or birthday cards to grandchildren. The support groups
:23:20. > :23:24.connects grandparents from across the country, all with different
:23:24. > :23:28.stories to tell. Sometimes, following a divorce, the children
:23:28. > :23:34.decide they don't want to see their non-resident parent. This can end
:23:34. > :23:38.up with the grandparents also being excluded from their lives. After 10
:23:38. > :23:43.years, I have a very happy relationship with my grandson. For
:23:43. > :23:47.the last two years, I have been denied contact with him. At first,
:23:47. > :23:57.I couldn't think of anything else. I was disturbing my sleep. And I
:23:57. > :23:58.
:23:58. > :24:05.was crying a lot. I felt so helpless, angry and sad. And I am
:24:05. > :24:10.missing him terribly. I have seen him because he passes on his way to
:24:10. > :24:17.school. And on the one occasion when I spoke to him on his way to
:24:17. > :24:22.school, there was a false accusation of attempted abduction.
:24:22. > :24:28.That was ridiculous! For grannies in her situation, shared parenting
:24:28. > :24:33.may not be the answer. I haven't seen my four beautiful
:24:33. > :24:38.grandchildren for five or six years now. And they happen to live about
:24:38. > :24:42.10 minutes' walk away, up the hill. Family feuds irrespective of
:24:42. > :24:46.careers to blame can result in grandparents losing contact with
:24:46. > :24:50.their grandchildren. It is a horrible on going and this
:24:50. > :24:55.bereavement. By the time we are grannies, we have usually suffered
:24:55. > :24:58.normal bereavement, real death bereavement. And there is support,
:24:58. > :25:03.there are the people that are feeling the same at people in it
:25:03. > :25:08.with you and eventually one moves away from that. With this, it is
:25:08. > :25:15.just me. I am incredibly alone in it and I know that life is going on
:25:15. > :25:21.out there and it will never come to an end. It is much, much worse. It
:25:21. > :25:26.is much worse than a genuine bereavement. I suppose, there is
:25:26. > :25:35.always that little hope of that something may change. And you have
:25:35. > :25:40.to hang on to that. Jane's support group has been a lifeline. At the
:25:41. > :25:46.beginning of it all, the main feeling is, what on earth have I
:25:46. > :25:50.done? I must be the most terrible person in the world. And when you
:25:50. > :25:55.get four or five people feeling like that, we look at one another
:25:55. > :26:02.and we think, well, she looks fairly normal! And that happens in
:26:02. > :26:07.the whole group and I think we have been able to lift one another out
:26:07. > :26:12.of that and be normal old ladies. We eat cake and drink tea! Jane
:26:12. > :26:14.would like to give the group more than just tea and cake. She wants
:26:14. > :26:21.to give the news about shared parenting and has arranged to meet
:26:21. > :26:25.her local MP. That is what I am here to ask Charlotte, whether we
:26:25. > :26:29.actually are nearing the legislation part of shared
:26:29. > :26:33.parenting. We have got a second reading on 26th October and we are
:26:33. > :26:37.pressing for grandparents to be put at the heart of what goes on. There
:26:37. > :26:41.has been a great move away from saying it is grand parents' rights,
:26:41. > :26:45.at his father's rights, to the mother's rights, to be looking at
:26:45. > :26:49.what children's rights are. It is tragic, and the tragedy as we have
:26:49. > :26:53.got non-resident parents who are ending their lives because they are
:26:53. > :26:56.not seeing their children. It could take years for the Bill to become
:26:56. > :27:01.law. In the meantime, the grandparents are getting on with
:27:02. > :27:11.their lives as best they can. have stopped sending e-mails. I
:27:11. > :27:16.shan't stop sending birthday cards. Unless there is some change in the
:27:16. > :27:21.law, I think I have come to the end of my resources that are available.
:27:21. > :27:26.It amazes me we even think there ought to be a law foreseeing ground
:27:26. > :27:31.mothers. To me, it seems as though civilisation can break down in one
:27:31. > :27:35.generation, if this goes on. It is as big as that. That is why I want
:27:35. > :27:38.people out there to know what to is happening. We are not in the
:27:38. > :27:43.business of saying we can make this right because we know we cannot.
:27:43. > :27:48.But we can be there for one another and that has to be what this is all
:27:48. > :27:55.about. And there is always that hope that that knock-on the door
:27:55. > :28:01.will come. It might well happen. Fingers crossed. Our Hope has to be
:28:01. > :28:07.to be able to answer our front door, to see somebody who is now a young
:28:07. > :28:14.lady on the other side of the door. And not only are we desperate to be
:28:14. > :28:18.able to hold her in our arms, but her dad is.
:28:18. > :28:28.That is about it for this week but if you'd like to keep in touch with
:28:28. > :28:36.
:28:36. > :28:41.what we are up to, you can find us Next week, an exclusive reveals the
:28:42. > :28:46.level of abuse at the Winterbourne View care home years before