18/02/2013

:00:20. > :00:22.Hello and welcome to Inside Out, Hello and welcome to Inside Out,

:00:22. > :00:22.Hello and welcome to Inside Out, where tonight we are at

:00:23. > :00:24.where tonight we are at Hillsborough Faure special

:00:24. > :00:25.Hillsborough Faure special Hillsborough Faure special

:00:25. > :00:27.programme. It is nearly a quarter programme. It is nearly a quarter

:00:27. > :00:28.programme. It is nearly a quarter of a century since this football

:00:29. > :00:31.of a century since this football of a century since this football

:00:31. > :00:32.stadium saw the most awful tragedy. stadium saw the most awful tragedy.

:00:32. > :00:33.stadium saw the most awful tragedy. 96 people died in the Hillsborough

:00:33. > :00:34.96 people died in the Hillsborough 96 people died in the Hillsborough

:00:34. > :00:35.disaster, and for the families, disaster, and for the families,

:00:35. > :00:37.disaster, and for the families, disaster, and for the families,

:00:37. > :00:37.there is still no sense of justice. there is still no sense of justice.

:00:37. > :00:39.there is still no sense of justice. there is still no sense of justice.

:00:39. > :00:40.He led to a bitter divide between He led to a bitter divide between

:00:40. > :00:41.He led to a bitter divide between He led to a bitter divide between

:00:41. > :00:44.them and the Police -- it lead. them and the Police -- it lead.

:00:44. > :00:45.them and the Police -- it lead. Tonight we bring you the remarkable

:00:45. > :00:46.Tonight we bring you the remarkable Tonight we bring you the remarkable

:00:46. > :00:47.Tonight we bring you the remarkable story of two men on the opposite

:00:47. > :00:48.story of two men on the opposite story of two men on the opposite

:00:48. > :00:49.sides of the divide. They are sides of the divide. They are

:00:49. > :00:59.sides of the divide. They are preparing to meet for the first

:00:59. > :00:59.

:00:59. > :01:02.preparing to meet for the first The key would have been 39, and

:01:02. > :01:03.The key would have been 39, and The key would have been 39, and

:01:03. > :01:04.The key would have been 39, and Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky

:01:04. > :01:05.Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky

:01:05. > :01:07.Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky would have been 39. They may have

:01:07. > :01:09.would have been 39. They may have would have been 39. They may have

:01:09. > :01:10.had families orchids of their own. had families orchids of their own.

:01:10. > :01:11.had families orchids of their own. had families orchids of their own.

:01:11. > :01:13.I have missed out on paying for a I have missed out on paying for a

:01:13. > :01:14.I have missed out on paying for a couple of weddings, and grand kids.

:01:15. > :01:15.couple of weddings, and grand kids. couple of weddings, and grand kids.

:01:15. > :01:16.couple of weddings, and grand kids. One of the things that is the

:01:16. > :01:18.One of the things that is the One of the things that is the

:01:18. > :01:19.One of the things that is the hardest to come to terms with is

:01:19. > :01:21.hardest to come to terms with is hardest to come to terms with is

:01:21. > :01:22.the loss of both opportunities for the loss of both opportunities for

:01:22. > :01:27.the loss of both opportunities for them to have fulfilled their

:01:27. > :01:28.them to have fulfilled their them to have fulfilled their

:01:28. > :01:29.ambitions and dreams. So many ambitions and dreams. So many

:01:29. > :01:31.ambitions and dreams. So many futures were cut short that day.

:01:31. > :01:32.futures were cut short that day. futures were cut short that day.

:01:32. > :01:33.Trevor Hicks has always blamed the Trevor Hicks has always blamed the

:01:33. > :01:34.Trevor Hicks has always blamed the Trevor Hicks has always blamed the

:01:34. > :01:36.police for the loss of his two police for the loss of his two

:01:36. > :01:37.police for the loss of his two daughters. They were crushed to

:01:37. > :01:38.daughters. They were crushed to daughters. They were crushed to

:01:38. > :01:39.death in the Leppings Lane End. death in the Leppings Lane End.

:01:39. > :01:41.death in the Leppings Lane End. Despite his anger and bitterness,

:01:41. > :01:42.Despite his anger and bitterness, Despite his anger and bitterness,

:01:42. > :01:44.Despite his anger and bitterness, he wrote a letter to commend an

:01:44. > :01:44.he wrote a letter to commend an he wrote a letter to commend an

:01:44. > :01:46.he wrote a letter to commend an officer who tried in vain to save

:01:46. > :01:49.officer who tried in vain to save officer who tried in vain to save

:01:49. > :01:50.the Victoria, his youngest daughter. the Victoria, his youngest daughter.

:01:50. > :01:51.the Victoria, his youngest daughter. the Victoria, his youngest daughter.

:01:51. > :01:52.What he did was awful for him, but What he did was awful for him, but

:01:52. > :01:55.What he did was awful for him, but What he did was awful for him, but

:01:55. > :01:56.What he did was awful for him, but I see it as being a hero for me. I

:01:56. > :02:00.I see it as being a hero for me. I I see it as being a hero for me. I

:02:00. > :02:01.I see it as being a hero for me. I need to say that, publicly. I did

:02:01. > :02:01.need to say that, publicly. I did need to say that, publicly. I did

:02:01. > :02:02.need to say that, publicly. I did what a lot of police officers did

:02:02. > :02:04.what a lot of police officers did what a lot of police officers did

:02:04. > :02:06.on the day, nothing more, nothing on the day, nothing more, nothing

:02:06. > :02:07.on the day, nothing more, nothing on the day, nothing more, nothing

:02:07. > :02:09.less. You just try to do your best less. You just try to do your best

:02:09. > :02:10.in harrowing circumstances. Now, in harrowing circumstances. Now,

:02:10. > :02:11.in harrowing circumstances. Now, in harrowing circumstances. Now,

:02:11. > :02:13.nearly a quarter of a century later, nearly a quarter of a century later,

:02:13. > :02:15.nearly a quarter of a century later, Trevor Hicks wants to meet that

:02:15. > :02:17.Trevor Hicks wants to meet that Trevor Hicks wants to meet that

:02:17. > :02:18.officer once more. I am often officer once more. I am often

:02:18. > :02:19.officer once more. I am often betrayed as someone who hates

:02:19. > :02:20.betrayed as someone who hates betrayed as someone who hates

:02:21. > :02:21.policeman, which is not the case. policeman, which is not the case.

:02:22. > :02:22.policeman, which is not the case. policeman, which is not the case.

:02:23. > :02:24.Peter is a very good example of Peter is a very good example of

:02:24. > :02:26.Peter is a very good example of Peter is a very good example of

:02:26. > :02:27.that. As far as I'm concerned, he that. As far as I'm concerned, he

:02:27. > :02:27.that. As far as I'm concerned, he that. As far as I'm concerned, he

:02:27. > :02:28.that. As far as I'm concerned, he was a hero of a bobby on the day.

:02:28. > :02:31.was a hero of a bobby on the day. was a hero of a bobby on the day.

:02:31. > :02:32.This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved

:02:32. > :02:35.This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved father, meeting the man who happens

:02:35. > :02:37.father, meeting the man who happens father, meeting the man who happens

:02:37. > :02:38.father, meeting the man who happens to be PC Magennis, to thank him for

:02:38. > :02:39.to be PC Magennis, to thank him for to be PC Magennis, to thank him for

:02:39. > :02:41.to be PC Magennis, to thank him for what he did on that date -- PC

:02:41. > :02:43.what he did on that date -- PC what he did on that date -- PC

:02:43. > :02:44.what he did on that date -- PC McGuinness. It is as simple as that.

:02:44. > :02:45.McGuinness. It is as simple as that. McGuinness. It is as simple as that.

:02:45. > :02:46.McGuinness. It is as simple as that. If I can bring one iota of comfort

:02:46. > :02:48.If I can bring one iota of comfort If I can bring one iota of comfort

:02:48. > :02:49.If I can bring one iota of comfort to a man who has lost his daughters

:02:49. > :02:56.to a man who has lost his daughters to a man who has lost his daughters

:02:56. > :02:58.in those circumstances, it is worth As well as changing the face of our

:02:58. > :02:59.As well as changing the face of our As well as changing the face of our

:02:59. > :03:00.national game, Hillsborough or left national game, Hillsborough or left

:03:00. > :03:01.national game, Hillsborough or left an indelible stain on the

:03:01. > :03:04.an indelible stain on the reputation of South Yorkshire

:03:04. > :03:04.reputation of South Yorkshire police, whose officers were

:03:04. > :03:05.police, whose officers were police, whose officers were

:03:05. > :03:09.responsible for ensuring the safety responsible for ensuring the safety

:03:09. > :03:12.responsible for ensuring the safety responsible for ensuring the safety

:03:12. > :03:13.of the capacity crowd on April 15th, of the capacity crowd on April 15th,

:03:13. > :03:15.of the capacity crowd on April 15th, 1989. The actions of a young

:03:15. > :03:16.1989. The actions of a young 1989. The actions of a young

:03:16. > :03:17.1989. The actions of a young constable on duty that day tell a

:03:17. > :03:19.constable on duty that day tell a different story from the

:03:19. > :03:20.different story from the catastrophic failures higher Rupp

:03:20. > :03:22.catastrophic failures higher Rupp catastrophic failures higher Rupp

:03:22. > :03:24.catastrophic failures higher Rupp in the command chain. -- higher up.

:03:24. > :03:25.in the command chain. -- higher up. in the command chain. -- higher up.

:03:25. > :03:26.in the command chain. -- higher up. As one of his final shifts in

:03:26. > :03:27.As one of his final shifts in As one of his final shifts in

:03:27. > :03:30.As one of his final shifts in uniform before taking up a post in

:03:30. > :03:31.uniform before taking up a post in uniform before taking up a post in

:03:31. > :03:32.CID, PC Peter McGuinness was CID, PC Peter McGuinness was

:03:32. > :03:33.CID, PC Peter McGuinness was CID, PC Peter McGuinness was

:03:33. > :03:35.brought in to help police the FA brought in to help police the FA

:03:35. > :03:37.Cup semi-final between Liverpool Cup semi-final between Liverpool

:03:37. > :03:38.Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest. He has now

:03:38. > :03:39.and Nottingham Forest. He has now and Nottingham Forest. He has now

:03:39. > :03:40.retired from the force after rising retired from the force after rising

:03:40. > :03:43.retired from the force after rising through the ranks to become a

:03:43. > :03:44.through the ranks to become a through the ranks to become a

:03:44. > :03:46.senior detective. Having led murder senior detective. Having led murder

:03:46. > :03:47.senior detective. Having led murder inquiries, he routinely dealt with

:03:47. > :03:48.inquiries, he routinely dealt with inquiries, he routinely dealt with

:03:48. > :03:51.trauma and loss, but Hillsborough trauma and loss, but Hillsborough

:03:51. > :03:52.trauma and loss, but Hillsborough trauma and loss, but Hillsborough

:03:52. > :03:54.left a lasting mark. There is never left a lasting mark. There is never

:03:55. > :03:55.left a lasting mark. There is never such a thing as closure. Some

:03:55. > :03:56.such a thing as closure. Some such a thing as closure. Some

:03:56. > :03:58.such a thing as closure. Some things you never get over. Some of

:03:58. > :04:00.things you never get over. Some of things you never get over. Some of

:04:00. > :04:01.things you never get over. Some of the images I have of Victoria, the

:04:02. > :04:03.the images I have of Victoria, the the images I have of Victoria, the

:04:03. > :04:05.memory of dealing with Trevor. memory of dealing with Trevor.

:04:05. > :04:06.memory of dealing with Trevor. Those images stick with you, but

:04:06. > :04:08.Those images stick with you, but Those images stick with you, but

:04:08. > :04:09.Those images stick with you, but over time, you learn to cope and I

:04:09. > :04:10.over time, you learn to cope and I over time, you learn to cope and I

:04:10. > :04:13.over time, you learn to cope and I was still a young man. I have not

:04:13. > :04:14.was still a young man. I have not was still a young man. I have not

:04:14. > :04:17.was still a young man. I have not lost any one then. How are we

:04:17. > :04:19.lost any one then. How are we lost any one then. How are we

:04:19. > :04:20.doing? Trevor Hicks is a successful doing? Trevor Hicks is a successful

:04:20. > :04:21.businessman, owner and managing businessman, owner and managing

:04:21. > :04:22.businessman, owner and managing director of a thriving company

:04:22. > :04:23.director of a thriving company director of a thriving company

:04:23. > :04:24.supplying fittings to the pub trade. supplying fittings to the pub trade.

:04:24. > :04:26.supplying fittings to the pub trade. But it is Hillsborough that has

:04:26. > :04:27.But it is Hillsborough that has But it is Hillsborough that has

:04:27. > :04:29.But it is Hillsborough that has defined his life, both in and out

:04:29. > :04:30.defined his life, both in and out defined his life, both in and out

:04:30. > :04:31.defined his life, both in and out of the public eye. He was chairman

:04:31. > :04:31.of the public eye. He was chairman of the public eye. He was chairman

:04:32. > :04:32.of the family support group that of the family support group that

:04:32. > :04:36.of the family support group that fought for the truth about the

:04:36. > :04:38.fought for the truth about the fought for the truth about the

:04:38. > :04:40.disaster. I will always be a disaster. I will always be a

:04:40. > :04:41.disaster. I will always be a disaster. I will always be a

:04:41. > :04:42.chipped cup. I am damage. I have a chipped cup. I am damage. I have a

:04:42. > :04:43.chipped cup. I am damage. I have a chipped cup. I am damage. I have a

:04:43. > :04:48.new life. I have tried to make the new life. I have tried to make the

:04:48. > :04:48.new life. I have tried to make the new life. I have tried to make the

:04:48. > :04:50.new life. I have tried to make the best of a bad job. It was a sunny

:04:50. > :04:52.best of a bad job. It was a sunny best of a bad job. It was a sunny

:04:52. > :04:53.best of a bad job. It was a sunny day. It was a normal match build-up.

:04:53. > :04:54.day. It was a normal match build-up. day. It was a normal match build-up.

:04:54. > :04:55.day. It was a normal match build-up. It was a good occasion. We were all

:04:55. > :04:57.It was a good occasion. We were all It was a good occasion. We were all

:04:57. > :04:58.looking forward to the game. Trevor looking forward to the game. Trevor

:04:58. > :04:59.looking forward to the game. Trevor looking forward to the game. Trevor

:04:59. > :05:01.and his then wife Jenny had tickets and his then wife Jenny had tickets

:05:01. > :05:02.and his then wife Jenny had tickets in different parts of the ground.

:05:02. > :05:03.in different parts of the ground. in different parts of the ground.

:05:03. > :05:04.Victoria and Sarah went with their Victoria and Sarah went with their

:05:04. > :05:05.Victoria and Sarah went with their father to the Leppings Lane End.

:05:05. > :05:08.father to the Leppings Lane End. father to the Leppings Lane End.

:05:09. > :05:09.But they were separated from him. But they were separated from him.

:05:09. > :05:10.But they were separated from him. But they were separated from him.

:05:10. > :05:12.But they were separated from him. The girls and I were at the head of

:05:12. > :05:12.The girls and I were at the head of The girls and I were at the head of

:05:12. > :05:13.The girls and I were at the head of the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of

:05:13. > :05:15.the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of

:05:15. > :05:17.coffee. They went off down the coffee. They went off down the

:05:17. > :05:19.coffee. They went off down the tunnel and that, really, was pure

:05:20. > :05:20.tunnel and that, really, was pure tunnel and that, really, was pure

:05:20. > :05:22.accident. So with the game under accident. So with the game under

:05:22. > :05:23.accident. So with the game under way it soon became apparent that

:05:23. > :05:25.way it soon became apparent that way it soon became apparent that

:05:25. > :05:27.something had gone terribly wrong. something had gone terribly wrong.

:05:27. > :05:28.something had gone terribly wrong. something had gone terribly wrong.

:05:28. > :05:29.This was going to be some sort of This was going to be some sort of

:05:29. > :05:30.This was going to be some sort of public order situation, so you were

:05:30. > :05:31.public order situation, so you were public order situation, so you were

:05:31. > :05:33.public order situation, so you were in a frame of mind for that. I

:05:33. > :05:34.in a frame of mind for that. I immediately realised that wasn't

:05:35. > :05:37.immediately realised that wasn't immediately realised that wasn't

:05:37. > :05:38.immediately realised that wasn't the case. When I saw bodies laid by

:05:38. > :05:39.the case. When I saw bodies laid by the case. When I saw bodies laid by

:05:39. > :05:41.that side of me, fans desperately that side of me, fans desperately

:05:41. > :05:42.that side of me, fans desperately trying to save people, police

:05:42. > :05:44.trying to save people, police trying to save people, police

:05:44. > :05:45.officers desperately trying to save officers desperately trying to save

:05:45. > :05:47.officers desperately trying to save people. You don't have time to

:05:47. > :05:51.people. You don't have time to people. You don't have time to

:05:51. > :05:52.think. You just think, this is think. You just think, this is

:05:52. > :05:53.think. You just think, this is unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah

:05:53. > :05:54.unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah

:05:54. > :05:55.or Victoria passed onto the pitch. or Victoria passed onto the pitch.

:05:55. > :05:57.or Victoria passed onto the pitch. or Victoria passed onto the pitch.

:05:57. > :05:58.I did a quick U-turn and pushed my I did a quick U-turn and pushed my

:05:58. > :06:00.I did a quick U-turn and pushed my I did a quick U-turn and pushed my

:06:00. > :06:01.way onto the pitch through one of way onto the pitch through one of

:06:01. > :06:03.way onto the pitch through one of the gate. The police officers were

:06:03. > :06:04.the gate. The police officers were the gate. The police officers were

:06:04. > :06:04.the gate. The police officers were the gate. The police officers were

:06:04. > :06:06.not going to let us in, but I was not going to let us in, but I was

:06:06. > :06:07.not going to let us in, but I was not going to let us in, but I was

:06:07. > :06:10.not for stopping. That is when I not for stopping. That is when I

:06:10. > :06:11.not for stopping. That is when I first became aware of Trevor. I

:06:11. > :06:12.first became aware of Trevor. I first became aware of Trevor. I

:06:12. > :06:17.remember the words father. He kept remember the words father. He kept

:06:17. > :06:18.remember the words father. He kept saying he was their father. And

:06:19. > :06:20.saying he was their father. And saying he was their father. And

:06:20. > :06:23.then we tried to give resuscitation, then we tried to give resuscitation,

:06:23. > :06:25.then we tried to give resuscitation, as best we could. With medics

:06:25. > :06:26.as best we could. With medics as best we could. With medics

:06:27. > :06:28.working on Sarah alongside them, working on Sarah alongside them,

:06:28. > :06:30.working on Sarah alongside them, together Peter and Trevor tried to

:06:30. > :06:32.together Peter and Trevor tried to together Peter and Trevor tried to

:06:32. > :06:34.revive Victoria. We picked her up revive Victoria. We picked her up

:06:34. > :06:35.revive Victoria. We picked her up and ran towards the ambulance. We

:06:35. > :06:36.and ran towards the ambulance. We and ran towards the ambulance. We

:06:36. > :06:37.and ran towards the ambulance. We put her in the ambulance. And then

:06:37. > :06:38.put her in the ambulance. And then put her in the ambulance. And then

:06:38. > :06:42.put her in the ambulance. And then I turned round to get Sarah, if you

:06:42. > :06:43.I turned round to get Sarah, if you I turned round to get Sarah, if you

:06:44. > :06:45.I turned round to get Sarah, if you like. As I say, this was the low

:06:45. > :06:46.like. As I say, this was the low like. As I say, this was the low

:06:46. > :06:51.like. As I say, this was the low point of my life probably when I am

:06:51. > :06:52.point of my life probably when I am point of my life probably when I am

:06:52. > :06:53.faced with the decision. Quickly faced with the decision. Quickly

:06:53. > :06:54.faced with the decision. Quickly other people were putting others

:06:54. > :06:56.other people were putting others other people were putting others

:06:56. > :06:57.other people were putting others into an ambulance, so do I go, or

:06:57. > :06:58.into an ambulance, so do I go, or into an ambulance, so do I go, or

:06:59. > :07:00.do I stay? Trevor took the do I stay? Trevor took the

:07:00. > :07:01.do I stay? Trevor took the agonising decision to leave Sarah.

:07:01. > :07:02.agonising decision to leave Sarah. agonising decision to leave Sarah.

:07:02. > :07:03.agonising decision to leave Sarah. agonising decision to leave Sarah.

:07:03. > :07:04.He and Peter we in the back of the He and Peter we in the back of the

:07:04. > :07:07.ambulance desperately trying to ambulance desperately trying to

:07:07. > :07:08.ambulance desperately trying to save Viktoria's life. We did feel

:07:08. > :07:10.save Viktoria's life. We did feel save Viktoria's life. We did feel

:07:10. > :07:11.save Viktoria's life. We did feel there was a post -- pulse. There

:07:11. > :07:13.there was a post -- pulse. There there was a post -- pulse. There

:07:13. > :07:16.there was a post -- pulse. There was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I

:07:16. > :07:17.was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I

:07:17. > :07:18.have no recollection of two people have no recollection of two people

:07:18. > :07:19.have no recollection of two people have no recollection of two people

:07:20. > :07:20.who had already passed away in the who had already passed away in the

:07:21. > :07:23.who had already passed away in the ambulance. We arrived at the

:07:23. > :07:24.ambulance. We arrived at the Northern General, and Peter

:07:24. > :07:26.Northern General, and Peter Northern General, and Peter

:07:26. > :07:29.Magennis and myself take Victoria Magennis and myself take Victoria

:07:29. > :07:30.Magennis and myself take Victoria Magennis and myself take Victoria

:07:30. > :07:32.in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took

:07:32. > :07:32.in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took

:07:32. > :07:34.her into the side room, and Trevor her into the side room, and Trevor

:07:34. > :07:37.her into the side room, and Trevor her into the side room, and Trevor

:07:37. > :07:38.came in and was asked to step came in and was asked to step

:07:38. > :07:40.came in and was asked to step outside. I get thrown out, because

:07:40. > :07:41.outside. I get thrown out, because outside. I get thrown out, because

:07:41. > :07:44.outside. I get thrown out, because they wanted to attend to the key. I

:07:44. > :07:45.they wanted to attend to the key. I they wanted to attend to the key. I

:07:45. > :07:46.remember Peter being in their with remember Peter being in their with

:07:46. > :07:50.remember Peter being in their with remember Peter being in their with

:07:50. > :07:51.them. I left it to the medical team them. I left it to the medical team

:07:51. > :07:52.them. I left it to the medical team and gave what pieces of information

:07:53. > :07:53.and gave what pieces of information and gave what pieces of information

:07:53. > :07:56.and gave what pieces of information they were asking me. At some point,

:07:56. > :07:58.they were asking me. At some point, they were asking me. At some point,

:07:58. > :08:03.they were asking me. At some point, they stopped and said she had gone.

:08:03. > :08:04.they stopped and said she had gone. they stopped and said she had gone.

:08:04. > :08:05.they stopped and said she had gone. they stopped and said she had gone.

:08:05. > :08:08.And I was faced with the sad job of And I was faced with the sad job of

:08:08. > :08:09.And I was faced with the sad job of informing Trevor, of course. Peter

:08:09. > :08:10.informing Trevor, of course. Peter informing Trevor, of course. Peter

:08:10. > :08:11.was in there until the curtain was in there until the curtain

:08:11. > :08:11.was in there until the curtain was in there until the curtain

:08:11. > :08:12.opens, and he comes out and gives opens, and he comes out and gives

:08:13. > :08:14.opens, and he comes out and gives opens, and he comes out and gives

:08:14. > :08:15.me the bad news. As far as I'm me the bad news. As far as I'm

:08:15. > :08:16.me the bad news. As far as I'm me the bad news. As far as I'm

:08:16. > :08:17.concerned, he was a good guy. And concerned, he was a good guy. And

:08:17. > :08:20.concerned, he was a good guy. And concerned, he was a good guy. And

:08:20. > :08:21.he did a very tough job very well. he did a very tough job very well.

:08:22. > :08:22.he did a very tough job very well. He was inconsolable. There is going

:08:22. > :08:24.He was inconsolable. There is going He was inconsolable. There is going

:08:24. > :08:26.He was inconsolable. There is going to be no trigger that is changing

:08:26. > :08:30.to be no trigger that is changing to be no trigger that is changing

:08:30. > :08:32.to be no trigger that is changing to be no trigger that is changing

:08:32. > :08:32.that. I think I gave him a hug, and that. I think I gave him a hug, and

:08:32. > :08:35.that. I think I gave him a hug, and then everything else kicked in.

:08:35. > :08:35.then everything else kicked in. then everything else kicked in.

:08:35. > :08:36.Things were still happening. People Things were still happening. People

:08:36. > :08:37.Things were still happening. People Things were still happening. People

:08:37. > :08:39.were still being brought in and I were still being brought in and I

:08:40. > :08:41.were still being brought in and I was now beginning to realise the

:08:41. > :08:43.was now beginning to realise the was now beginning to realise the

:08:43. > :08:44.magnitude of this. It sounds magnitude of this. It sounds

:08:44. > :08:44.magnitude of this. It sounds magnitude of this. It sounds

:08:44. > :08:45.callous, but it wasn't meant to be, callous, but it wasn't meant to be,

:08:45. > :08:46.callous, but it wasn't meant to be, callous, but it wasn't meant to be,

:08:46. > :08:47.callous, but it wasn't meant to be, but as soon as he told me there was

:08:47. > :08:49.but as soon as he told me there was but as soon as he told me there was

:08:49. > :08:51.nothing else I could do for nothing else I could do for

:08:51. > :08:53.nothing else I could do for Victoria, my thoughts switched to

:08:53. > :08:54.Victoria, my thoughts switched to Victoria, my thoughts switched to

:08:54. > :08:56.Sarah. Again, I assumed she would Sarah. Again, I assumed she would

:08:56. > :08:56.Sarah. Again, I assumed she would Sarah. Again, I assumed she would

:08:56. > :08:59.be arriving any minute in one of be arriving any minute in one of

:08:59. > :09:01.be arriving any minute in one of the other ambulances. But she never

:09:01. > :09:02.the other ambulances. But she never the other ambulances. But she never

:09:02. > :09:04.the other ambulances. But she never did. Sarah's body was taken to the

:09:04. > :09:04.did. Sarah's body was taken to the did. Sarah's body was taken to the

:09:04. > :09:05.makeshift morgue at the football makeshift morgue at the football

:09:05. > :09:08.makeshift morgue at the football ground. This photograph of Trevor

:09:08. > :09:10.ground. This photograph of Trevor ground. This photograph of Trevor

:09:10. > :09:11.and Jenny was taken outside before and Jenny was taken outside before

:09:11. > :09:12.and Jenny was taken outside before and Jenny was taken outside before

:09:12. > :09:13.the match. It would be hours before the match. It would be hours before

:09:13. > :09:15.the match. It would be hours before their worst fears were confirmed. A

:09:15. > :09:17.their worst fears were confirmed. A their worst fears were confirmed. A

:09:17. > :09:19.mixed the trauma, Trevor never mixed the trauma, Trevor never

:09:19. > :09:21.mixed the trauma, Trevor never forgot Peter's support during that

:09:21. > :09:22.forgot Peter's support during that forgot Peter's support during that

:09:22. > :09:23.terrible time. Since the intense terrible time. Since the intense

:09:23. > :09:25.terrible time. Since the intense moments they shed here nearly 25

:09:25. > :09:27.moments they shed here nearly 25 moments they shed here nearly 25

:09:27. > :09:28.years ago, their paths have never years ago, their paths have never

:09:28. > :09:29.years ago, their paths have never crossed. -- they shed. Because of

:09:29. > :09:31.crossed. -- they shed. Because of crossed. -- they shed. Because of

:09:31. > :09:31.the bitter divide between the the bitter divide between the

:09:32. > :09:35.the bitter divide between the families and the police, he looked

:09:35. > :09:36.families and the police, he looked families and the police, he looked

:09:37. > :09:37.unlikely they would. -- it looked unlikely they would. -- it looked

:09:37. > :09:39.unlikely they would. -- it looked unlikely. That's because of two

:09:39. > :09:42.unlikely. That's because of two unlikely. That's because of two

:09:42. > :09:44.decades over which the family's decades over which the family's

:09:44. > :09:44.decades over which the family's pain has been increased by the

:09:45. > :09:45.pain has been increased by the pain has been increased by the

:09:46. > :09:47.anger of injustice. The government anger of injustice. The government

:09:47. > :09:49.anger of injustice. The government announced a public inquiry. Within

:09:49. > :09:50.announced a public inquiry. Within announced a public inquiry. Within

:09:50. > :09:51.days of the disaster, there were days of the disaster, there were

:09:51. > :09:52.days of the disaster, there were suggestions Liverpool fans were to

:09:52. > :09:53.suggestions Liverpool fans were to suggestions Liverpool fans were to

:09:53. > :09:54.blame. Claims that some were drunk, blame. Claims that some were drunk,

:09:54. > :09:58.blame. Claims that some were drunk, blame. Claims that some were drunk,

:09:58. > :09:59.turned up late and tried to get in turned up late and tried to get in

:09:59. > :10:01.turned up late and tried to get in turned up late and tried to get in

:10:01. > :10:01.without tickets. All I know is that without tickets. All I know is that

:10:01. > :10:02.without tickets. All I know is that without tickets. All I know is that

:10:02. > :10:04.when you are trying to control than when you are trying to control than

:10:04. > :10:05.when you are trying to control than number of people, and they refuse

:10:05. > :10:07.number of people, and they refuse number of people, and they refuse

:10:07. > :10:08.to be directed or guided in to be directed or guided in

:10:08. > :10:10.to be directed or guided in anything like an orderly fashion,

:10:10. > :10:14.anything like an orderly fashion, anything like an orderly fashion,

:10:14. > :10:15.that makes it almost impossible, an that makes it almost impossible, an

:10:15. > :10:16.almost uncontrollable. For the almost uncontrollable. For the

:10:16. > :10:17.almost uncontrollable. For the families, drawn together in grief,

:10:17. > :10:18.families, drawn together in grief, families, drawn together in grief,

:10:18. > :10:19.families, drawn together in grief, to hear such a version of events

:10:19. > :10:20.to hear such a version of events to hear such a version of events

:10:21. > :10:22.to hear such a version of events was too much to bear. They formed a

:10:22. > :10:26.was too much to bear. They formed a was too much to bear. They formed a

:10:26. > :10:27.support group, and Trevor Hicks support group, and Trevor Hicks

:10:27. > :10:28.became chairman. Lord Justice became chairman. Lord Justice

:10:28. > :10:30.became chairman. Lord Justice became chairman. Lord Justice

:10:30. > :10:31.Taylor is heading what could be the Taylor is heading what could be the

:10:31. > :10:32.public's biggest-ever public public's biggest-ever public

:10:32. > :10:33.public's biggest-ever public inquiry, and before opening the

:10:33. > :10:34.inquiry, and before opening the inquiry, and before opening the

:10:34. > :10:35.inquiry, and before opening the hearing he stopped in the foyer of

:10:35. > :10:38.hearing he stopped in the foyer of hearing he stopped in the foyer of

:10:39. > :10:40.Sheffield Town Hall to sign the Sheffield Town Hall to sign the

:10:40. > :10:41.remembrance book. The Taylor remembrance book. The Taylor

:10:41. > :10:42.remembrance book. The Taylor inquiry criticised the lack of

:10:42. > :10:43.inquiry criticised the lack of inquiry criticised the lack of

:10:43. > :10:44.police control. It was their fault police control. It was their fault

:10:44. > :10:46.police control. It was their fault police control. It was their fault

:10:46. > :10:47.that a large crowd had been able to that a large crowd had been able to

:10:47. > :10:48.that a large crowd had been able to gather outside the turnstiles. It

:10:48. > :10:48.gather outside the turnstiles. It gather outside the turnstiles. It

:10:48. > :10:50.gather outside the turnstiles. It was their decision to open a gate

:10:50. > :10:51.was their decision to open a gate was their decision to open a gate

:10:51. > :10:52.was their decision to open a gate to relieve the pressure, and it was

:10:52. > :10:53.to relieve the pressure, and it was to relieve the pressure, and it was

:10:53. > :10:55.their critical failure not to their critical failure not to

:10:55. > :10:57.their critical failure not to direct the fans already away from

:10:57. > :10:58.direct the fans already away from direct the fans already away from

:10:58. > :11:00.the overcrowded pens. No officers the overcrowded pens. No officers

:11:01. > :11:01.faced prosecution. South Yorkshire faced prosecution. South Yorkshire

:11:01. > :11:03.faced prosecution. South Yorkshire police accepted the criticisms but

:11:03. > :11:04.police accepted the criticisms but police accepted the criticisms but

:11:04. > :11:11.no action followed. The offer to no action followed. The offer to

:11:11. > :11:12.no action followed. The offer to resign was rejected. I am appalled.

:11:12. > :11:12.resign was rejected. I am appalled. resign was rejected. I am appalled.

:11:12. > :11:15.resign was rejected. I am appalled. We heard over the weekend there was

:11:15. > :11:15.We heard over the weekend there was We heard over the weekend there was

:11:15. > :11:19.a certain amount of sympathy for a certain amount of sympathy for

:11:19. > :11:20.a certain amount of sympathy for the personal position. We did not

:11:20. > :11:21.the personal position. We did not the personal position. We did not

:11:21. > :11:23.believe that even the sympathy believe that even the sympathy

:11:23. > :11:24.believe that even the sympathy could outweigh the South Yorkshire

:11:24. > :11:25.could outweigh the South Yorkshire could outweigh the South Yorkshire

:11:25. > :11:26.police authority having to face the police authority having to face the

:11:26. > :11:35.responsibilities of what happened responsibilities of what happened

:11:35. > :11:35.responsibilities of what happened responsibilities of what happened

:11:35. > :11:40.on the day. You are not empowered on the day. You are not empowered

:11:40. > :11:40.on the day. You are not empowered to make a contribution. Trevor

:11:41. > :11:41.to make a contribution. Trevor to make a contribution. Trevor

:11:41. > :11:42.Hicks gained a reputation as a Hicks gained a reputation as a

:11:42. > :11:43.Hicks gained a reputation as a dogged opponent of the force and

:11:43. > :11:45.dogged opponent of the force and dogged opponent of the force and

:11:45. > :11:46.the authority that oversaw it. In the authority that oversaw it. In

:11:46. > :11:48.the authority that oversaw it. In the authority that oversaw it. In

:11:48. > :11:49.November of 1989, a report by the November of 1989, a report by the

:11:49. > :11:56.November of 1989, a report by the authority left the family further

:11:56. > :11:57.It took about six minutes to deal It took about six minutes to deal

:11:57. > :11:57.It took about six minutes to deal It took about six minutes to deal

:11:57. > :11:59.with what was one of the most with what was one of the most

:11:59. > :12:01.with what was one of the most important things in the authority.

:12:01. > :12:02.important things in the authority. important things in the authority.

:12:02. > :12:08.We think, in fairness. It's been We think, in fairness. It's been

:12:08. > :12:09.pretty shabbily treated. pretty shabbily treated.

:12:09. > :12:17.pretty shabbily treated. inquest began in Noam -- November

:12:17. > :12:18.inquest began in Noam -- November inquest began in Noam -- November

:12:18. > :12:20.inquest began in Noam -- November of 1990. The coroner said there was

:12:20. > :12:22.of 1990. The coroner said there was of 1990. The coroner said there was

:12:22. > :12:23.fatal injury by 3:15pm and any fatal injury by 3:15pm and any

:12:23. > :12:26.fatal injury by 3:15pm and any others were not relevant to death.

:12:26. > :12:28.others were not relevant to death. others were not relevant to death.

:12:28. > :12:30.The verdict of accidental death The verdict of accidental death

:12:30. > :12:31.prompted outrage. Some believe prompted outrage. Some believe

:12:31. > :12:32.prompted outrage. Some believe there were found to lived beyond

:12:32. > :12:42.there were found to lived beyond there were found to lived beyond

:12:42. > :12:46.

:12:46. > :12:48.there were found to lived beyond We have had to take on every part

:12:48. > :12:49.We have had to take on every part We have had to take on every part

:12:49. > :12:50.of the Establishment. If 95 police of the Establishment. If 95 police

:12:50. > :12:51.of the Establishment. If 95 police forces has had been killed, we

:12:51. > :13:01.forces has had been killed, we forces has had been killed, we

:13:01. > :13:02.would have seen a different Her complaints and disciplinary

:13:02. > :13:12.Her complaints and disciplinary Her complaints and disciplinary

:13:12. > :13:13.hearings against the officers came hearings against the officers came

:13:13. > :13:14.hearings against the officers came hearings against the officers came

:13:14. > :13:15.to nothing. In 1997, there was a to nothing. In 1997, there was a

:13:15. > :13:16.to nothing. In 1997, there was a fresh examination of the evidence.

:13:16. > :13:18.fresh examination of the evidence. fresh examination of the evidence.

:13:18. > :13:20.But a new inquiry was denied. But a new inquiry was denied.

:13:20. > :13:21.But a new inquiry was denied. It is a total travesty.

:13:21. > :13:22.It is a total travesty. It is a total travesty.

:13:22. > :13:22.The families pursued their own The families pursued their own

:13:22. > :13:23.The families pursued their own prosecution against the officers in

:13:23. > :13:24.prosecution against the officers in charge at Hillsborough, Chief

:13:24. > :13:25.charge at Hillsborough, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield

:13:25. > :13:27.Superintendent David Duckenfield and his deputy, Superintendent

:13:27. > :13:28.and his deputy, Superintendent and his deputy, Superintendent

:13:28. > :13:29.Bernard Murray. After a six-week Bernard Murray. After a six-week

:13:29. > :13:30.Bernard Murray. After a six-week trial, the jury found Murray not

:13:30. > :13:31.trial, the jury found Murray not trial, the jury found Murray not

:13:31. > :13:33.guilty. They failed to reach a guilty. They failed to reach a

:13:33. > :13:34.guilty. They failed to reach a verdict on Duckenfield. Once again,

:13:34. > :13:39.verdict on Duckenfield. Once again, verdict on Duckenfield. Once again,

:13:40. > :13:41.Trevor Hicks was centre stage. Trevor Hicks was centre stage.

:13:41. > :13:42.Trevor Hicks was centre stage. Trevor Hicks was centre stage.

:13:42. > :13:43.have put this case in a court of have put this case in a court of

:13:43. > :13:44.have put this case in a court of have put this case in a court of

:13:44. > :13:46.have put this case in a court of law as we said and we nearly won it,

:13:46. > :13:47.law as we said and we nearly won it, law as we said and we nearly won it,

:13:47. > :13:51.we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the

:13:51. > :13:52.we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the families didn't give up. By the

:13:52. > :13:53.families didn't give up. By the families didn't give up. By the

:13:53. > :14:03.20th anniversary, the calls for 20th anniversary, the calls for

:14:03. > :14:07.

:14:07. > :14:10.20th anniversary, the calls for The government agreed to release

:14:10. > :14:11.The government agreed to release The government agreed to release

:14:11. > :14:12.files about the disaster. The files about the disaster. The

:14:12. > :14:13.Hillsborough Independent Panel was Hillsborough Independent Panel was

:14:13. > :14:13.Hillsborough Independent Panel was Hillsborough Independent Panel was

:14:13. > :14:15.set up to review the material and set up to review the material and

:14:15. > :14:16.set up to review the material and publish any new evidence. Their

:14:16. > :14:17.publish any new evidence. Their publish any new evidence. Their

:14:17. > :14:18.report last September left the report last September left the

:14:18. > :14:26.public shocked, the families public shocked, the families

:14:26. > :14:27.relieved, and the establishment contrite.

:14:27. > :14:28.contrite. contrite.

:14:28. > :14:29.Renew evidence we are presented Renew evidence we are presented

:14:29. > :14:30.Renew evidence we are presented Renew evidence we are presented

:14:30. > :14:31.with today makes clear in my view with today makes clear in my view

:14:31. > :14:33.with today makes clear in my view that these families have suffered a

:14:33. > :14:35.that these families have suffered a that these families have suffered a

:14:35. > :14:36.double injustice -- for the new double injustice -- for the new

:14:36. > :14:37.double injustice -- for the new evidence. The appalling events, the

:14:37. > :14:39.evidence. The appalling events, the evidence. The appalling events, the

:14:39. > :14:40.failure of the state to protect failure of the state to protect

:14:40. > :14:41.failure of the state to protect their loved ones, and the

:14:41. > :14:42.their loved ones, and the their loved ones, and the

:14:42. > :14:44.indefensible way to get the truth, indefensible way to get the truth,

:14:44. > :14:45.indefensible way to get the truth, have an the denigration of the

:14:45. > :14:46.have an the denigration of the have an the denigration of the

:14:46. > :14:48.deceased, that they were somehow at deceased, that they were somehow at

:14:48. > :14:49.deceased, that they were somehow at deceased, that they were somehow at

:14:49. > :14:50.fault for their own deaths. So on fault for their own deaths. So on

:14:50. > :14:52.fault for their own deaths. So on behalf of the government on the

:14:52. > :14:53.behalf of the government on the behalf of the government on the

:14:53. > :14:55.contrary, I am profoundly sorry if contrary, I am profoundly sorry if

:14:55. > :14:57.contrary, I am profoundly sorry if this double injustice has been left

:14:57. > :14:59.this double injustice has been left this double injustice has been left

:14:59. > :15:00.without correction for so long. without correction for so long.

:15:00. > :15:01.without correction for so long. without correction for so long.

:15:01. > :15:02.We feel for the first time in a We feel for the first time in a

:15:02. > :15:05.We feel for the first time in a We feel for the first time in a

:15:05. > :15:06.long time that we are on the brink long time that we are on the brink

:15:06. > :15:07.of a breakthrough. of a breakthrough.

:15:07. > :15:08.of a breakthrough. of a breakthrough.

:15:08. > :15:09.The end of a 23-year fight for the The end of a 23-year fight for the

:15:09. > :15:10.The end of a 23-year fight for the The end of a 23-year fight for the

:15:10. > :15:11.truth was only the start of the truth was only the start of the

:15:11. > :15:12.truth was only the start of the search for justice. The report said

:15:12. > :15:13.search for justice. The report said search for justice. The report said

:15:13. > :15:14.search for justice. The report said as many as 41 of the Hillsborough

:15:14. > :15:15.as many as 41 of the Hillsborough victims could potentially have

:15:15. > :15:16.victims could potentially have victims could potentially have

:15:16. > :15:21.survived if the emergency response survived if the emergency response

:15:21. > :15:21.had been better. had been better.

:15:21. > :15:24.$$NEWLINEBefore Christmas, the $$NEWLINEBefore Christmas, the

:15:24. > :15:25.accidental death verdicts were accidental death verdicts were

:15:25. > :15:26.overturned. Lord Justice Goldring overturned. Lord Justice Goldring

:15:26. > :15:27.overturned. Lord Justice Goldring will conduct new inquests, and the

:15:27. > :15:28.will conduct new inquests, and the will conduct new inquests, and the

:15:28. > :15:29.will conduct new inquests, and the law has been changed so they do not

:15:29. > :15:36.law has been changed so they do not law has been changed so they do not

:15:36. > :15:37.law has been changed so they do not have to be held in Sheffield.

:15:37. > :15:38.have to be held in Sheffield. have to be held in Sheffield.

:15:38. > :15:39.the depth and length of that the depth and length of that

:15:39. > :15:40.the depth and length of that judgment, we could not have got

:15:40. > :15:44.judgment, we could not have got judgment, we could not have got

:15:44. > :15:45.judgment, we could not have got better if we had written it ourself.

:15:45. > :15:46.better if we had written it ourself. better if we had written it ourself.

:15:46. > :15:47.The long campaign has dominated The long campaign has dominated

:15:47. > :15:47.Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter

:15:47. > :15:48.Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter McGuinness rose through the ranks

:15:48. > :15:49.McGuinness rose through the ranks to become a Detective

:15:49. > :15:50.to become a Detective Superintendent, investigating some

:15:50. > :15:51.Superintendent, investigating some Superintendent, investigating some

:15:51. > :15:52.of South Yorkshire's most serious crimes.

:15:52. > :15:53.crimes. crimes.

:15:53. > :15:54.crimes. The two men have been on each

:15:54. > :15:55.The two men have been on each The two men have been on each

:15:55. > :15:56.other's minds, but their only other's minds, but their only

:15:56. > :15:57.contact was Trevor's letter, contact was Trevor's letter,

:15:57. > :16:07.commending Peter's efforts, written commending Peter's efforts, written

:16:07. > :16:11.

:16:11. > :16:12.commending Peter's efforts, written I am on my way to meet Peter

:16:12. > :16:14.I am on my way to meet Peter I am on my way to meet Peter

:16:14. > :16:16.I am on my way to meet Peter McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

:16:16. > :16:17.McGuinness, the last time I saw him, McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

:16:17. > :16:18.McGuinness, the last time I saw him, McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

:16:18. > :16:19.he was a PC. I have only been back he was a PC. I have only been back

:16:19. > :16:20.he was a PC. I have only been back to Hillsborough a couple of times

:16:20. > :16:23.to Hillsborough a couple of times to Hillsborough a couple of times

:16:23. > :16:26.to Hillsborough a couple of times and I still find it quaint daunting.

:16:26. > :16:26.and I still find it quaint daunting. and I still find it quaint daunting.

:16:26. > :16:28.and I still find it quaint daunting. -- quite. It by can answer any

:16:28. > :16:30.-- quite. It by can answer any -- quite. It by can answer any

:16:30. > :16:31.questions he still has after 23 questions he still has after 23

:16:31. > :16:33.questions he still has after 23 questions he still has after 23

:16:33. > :16:34.years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. years, it is worthwhile -- if I can.

:16:34. > :16:35.years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. years, it is worthwhile -- if I can.

:16:35. > :16:37.years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. I do not not want to give him the

:16:37. > :16:38.I do not not want to give him the I do not not want to give him the

:16:38. > :16:39.I do not not want to give him the opportunity to do that. This is a

:16:39. > :16:39.opportunity to do that. This is a opportunity to do that. This is a

:16:39. > :16:41.opportunity to do that. This is a man to man meeting, it has nothing

:16:41. > :16:41.man to man meeting, it has nothing man to man meeting, it has nothing

:16:41. > :16:44.man to man meeting, it has nothing to do with the campaign, this is

:16:44. > :16:46.to do with the campaign, this is to do with the campaign, this is

:16:46. > :16:47.to do with the campaign, this is long overdue and I want to thank

:16:47. > :16:49.long overdue and I want to thank long overdue and I want to thank

:16:49. > :16:50.long overdue and I want to thank the guy and hopefully have a chat.

:16:50. > :16:51.the guy and hopefully have a chat. the guy and hopefully have a chat.

:16:51. > :16:54.the guy and hopefully have a chat. the guy and hopefully have a chat.

:16:54. > :16:55.He may be able to fill a few banks. He may be able to fill a few banks.

:16:55. > :16:56.He may be able to fill a few banks. He courageously wants to command

:16:56. > :16:56.He courageously wants to command He courageously wants to command

:16:57. > :16:57.He courageously wants to command what police officers did on the day

:16:57. > :17:00.what police officers did on the day what police officers did on the day

:17:00. > :17:01.what police officers did on the day and I think that is laudable and I

:17:01. > :17:02.and I think that is laudable and I and I think that is laudable and I

:17:02. > :17:12.and I think that is laudable and I think that is the main reason why I

:17:12. > :17:15.

:17:15. > :17:16.think that is the main reason why I Trevor is the one who has lost two

:17:16. > :17:18.Trevor is the one who has lost two Trevor is the one who has lost two

:17:18. > :17:20.Trevor is the one who has lost two daughters, I have lost our body. It

:17:20. > :17:21.daughters, I have lost our body. It daughters, I have lost our body. It

:17:21. > :17:22.was a dramatic experience and those was a dramatic experience and those

:17:22. > :17:24.was a dramatic experience and those was a dramatic experience and those

:17:24. > :17:25.memories stay with you -- was to memories stay with you -- was to

:17:25. > :17:27.memories stay with you -- was to memories stay with you -- was to

:17:27. > :17:28.nobody. Trevor is the one this is focused around.

:17:28. > :17:29.focused around. focused around.

:17:29. > :17:30.focused around. As haunting as the trip back to

:17:30. > :17:31.As haunting as the trip back to As haunting as the trip back to

:17:31. > :17:32.Hillsborough must be for him, this Hillsborough must be for him, this

:17:32. > :17:33.Hillsborough must be for him, this is familiar territory for Trevor.

:17:33. > :17:33.is familiar territory for Trevor. is familiar territory for Trevor.

:17:33. > :17:34.This haven of remembrance, a This haven of remembrance, a

:17:34. > :17:35.This haven of remembrance, a memorial garden he helped raise the

:17:35. > :17:36.memorial garden he helped raise the memorial garden he helped raise the

:17:36. > :17:43.funds to build, was provided for funds to build, was provided for

:17:43. > :17:48.funds to build, was provided for the bereaved to sit and reflect.

:17:48. > :17:49.the bereaved to sit and reflect. Trepidation, anticipation. All the

:17:49. > :17:50.Trepidation, anticipation. All the Trepidation, anticipation. All the

:17:50. > :17:51.emotions. It is something that is emotions. It is something that is

:17:51. > :17:52.emotions. It is something that is emotions. It is something that is

:17:52. > :17:53.long overdue and so there is an long overdue and so there is an

:17:53. > :17:54.long overdue and so there is an long overdue and so there is an

:17:54. > :17:58.element of guilt that I should have element of guilt that I should have

:17:58. > :17:59.element of guilt that I should have done it sooner. Apprehensive that

:17:59. > :18:00.done it sooner. Apprehensive that done it sooner. Apprehensive that

:18:00. > :18:03.done it sooner. Apprehensive that it goes well on all those fronts,

:18:03. > :18:04.it goes well on all those fronts, it goes well on all those fronts,

:18:04. > :18:06.it goes well on all those fronts, it goes well for Trevor and that

:18:06. > :18:07.it goes well for Trevor and that it goes well for Trevor and that

:18:07. > :18:08.the message comes across of what the message comes across of what

:18:08. > :18:09.the message comes across of what the message comes across of what

:18:09. > :18:10.we're trying to achieve and to we we're trying to achieve and to we

:18:10. > :18:14.we're trying to achieve and to we are trying to acknowledge in this.

:18:14. > :18:16.are trying to acknowledge in this. are trying to acknowledge in this.

:18:16. > :18:16.are trying to acknowledge in this. are trying to acknowledge in this.

:18:16. > :18:17.I just hope it goes right and it is I just hope it goes right and it is

:18:17. > :18:27.I just hope it goes right and it is not a negative experience for

:18:27. > :18:29.

:18:29. > :18:30.Trevor, a long time, a very long Trevor, a long time, a very long

:18:30. > :18:32.Trevor, a long time, a very long time. Apologies for not doing this

:18:32. > :18:34.time. Apologies for not doing this time. Apologies for not doing this

:18:34. > :18:35.time. Apologies for not doing this time. Apologies for not doing this

:18:35. > :18:36.a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot

:18:36. > :18:40.a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot

:18:41. > :18:41.to say, a lot to ask. There is! to say, a lot to ask. There is!

:18:41. > :18:47.to say, a lot to ask. There is! When we get over the initial

:18:47. > :18:48.When we get over the initial When we get over the initial

:18:48. > :18:52.embarrassment. I could not not embarrassment. I could not not

:18:52. > :18:53.embarrassment. I could not not afforded the opportunity to meet.

:18:53. > :18:54.afforded the opportunity to meet. - afford you.

:18:54. > :18:55.- afford you. After that initial awkwardness

:18:55. > :18:56.After that initial awkwardness After that initial awkwardness

:18:56. > :18:57.subsides, they begin to reflect on subsides, they begin to reflect on

:18:57. > :18:58.subsides, they begin to reflect on what has brought them together.

:18:58. > :19:00.what has brought them together. what has brought them together.

:19:00. > :19:01.what has brought them together. what has brought them together.

:19:01. > :19:02.I have a copy of a letter you cent, I have a copy of a letter you cent,

:19:02. > :19:05.I have a copy of a letter you cent, I have a copy of a letter you cent,

:19:05. > :19:06.I kept a copy. I meant it.It I kept a copy. I meant it.It

:19:06. > :19:07.I kept a copy. I meant it.It I kept a copy. I meant it.It

:19:07. > :19:11.struck me as a measure of you bet struck me as a measure of you bet

:19:11. > :19:13.against those terrible backdrops, against those terrible backdrops,

:19:13. > :19:14.against those terrible backdrops, against those terrible backdrops,

:19:14. > :19:15.everything you have to face and the everything you have to face and the

:19:15. > :19:17.everything you have to face and the battle you were starting, to take

:19:17. > :19:17.battle you were starting, to take battle you were starting, to take

:19:17. > :19:19.battle you were starting, to take the time to write that and to thank

:19:19. > :19:21.the time to write that and to thank the time to write that and to thank

:19:21. > :19:22.the time to write that and to thank me, which was not needed. I felt it

:19:22. > :19:24.me, which was not needed. I felt it me, which was not needed. I felt it

:19:24. > :19:27.me, which was not needed. I felt it was, that is why I felt this was

:19:27. > :19:28.was, that is why I felt this was overdue, meeting face-to-face. It

:19:28. > :19:29.overdue, meeting face-to-face. It overdue, meeting face-to-face. It

:19:29. > :19:32.overdue, meeting face-to-face. It is good to shake your hand and his

:19:32. > :19:42.is good to shake your hand and his is good to shake your hand and his

:19:42. > :19:50.

:19:50. > :19:51.A difficult 23 years. It has taken A difficult 23 years. It has taken

:19:52. > :19:52.A difficult 23 years. It has taken its toll. David and Goliath.

:19:52. > :19:53.its toll. David and Goliath. its toll. David and Goliath.

:19:53. > :19:57.its toll. David and Goliath. its toll. David and Goliath.

:19:57. > :19:59.Be it is not just me, I am a Be it is not just me, I am a

:19:59. > :19:59.Be it is not just me, I am a figurehead. Like today, there are

:19:59. > :20:00.figurehead. Like today, there are figurehead. Like today, there are

:20:00. > :20:02.figurehead. Like today, there are two of May, the chairman does his

:20:02. > :20:04.two of May, the chairman does his two of May, the chairman does his

:20:04. > :20:05.two of May, the chairman does his two of May, the chairman does his

:20:05. > :20:07.job as best he can -- there are two job as best he can -- there are two

:20:07. > :20:09.job as best he can -- there are two job as best he can -- there are two

:20:09. > :20:10.of me. I am a politician myself in of me. I am a politician myself in

:20:10. > :20:12.of me. I am a politician myself in of me. I am a politician myself in

:20:12. > :20:13.some ways. And there is the real me, some ways. And there is the real me,

:20:13. > :20:14.some ways. And there is the real me, some ways. And there is the real me,

:20:14. > :20:17.part of what you see today. They part of what you see today. They

:20:17. > :20:18.part of what you see today. They part of what you see today. They

:20:18. > :20:25.only saw you as the father of the only saw you as the father of the

:20:25. > :20:25.only saw you as the father of the only saw you as the father of the

:20:25. > :20:26.key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is

:20:26. > :20:29.key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is not the public face, but public

:20:29. > :20:30.not the public face, but public not the public face, but public

:20:30. > :20:30.face is the Hillsborough campaigner. face is the Hillsborough campaigner.

:20:30. > :20:36.face is the Hillsborough campaigner. face is the Hillsborough campaigner.

:20:37. > :20:37.I am a nicer person in some ways I am a nicer person in some ways

:20:37. > :20:38.I am a nicer person in some ways after Hillsborough. And as I say,

:20:38. > :20:39.after Hillsborough. And as I say, after Hillsborough. And as I say,

:20:39. > :20:42.after Hillsborough. And as I say, after Hillsborough. And as I say,

:20:42. > :20:44.you have to make the best of a bad job.

:20:44. > :20:44.job. job.

:20:44. > :20:46.job. In a person's wife, things were run

:20:46. > :20:47.In a person's wife, things were run In a person's wife, things were run

:20:47. > :20:51.parallel and my daughter has gone parallel and my daughter has gone

:20:51. > :20:53.parallel and my daughter has gone to Liverpool University. Sarah was

:20:53. > :20:54.to Liverpool University. Sarah was to Liverpool University. Sarah was

:20:54. > :20:56.that Liverpool and there is a that Liverpool and there is a

:20:56. > :20:57.that Liverpool and there is a memorial garden for her. Meeting

:20:57. > :20:58.memorial garden for her. Meeting memorial garden for her. Meeting

:20:58. > :21:01.memorial garden for her. Meeting and you, you on my personal hero

:21:01. > :21:01.and you, you on my personal hero and you, you on my personal hero

:21:01. > :21:02.and you, you on my personal hero and you also represent the on the

:21:02. > :21:04.and you also represent the on the and you also represent the on the

:21:04. > :21:05.and you also represent the on the beat bobbies he did a good job on

:21:05. > :21:06.beat bobbies he did a good job on beat bobbies he did a good job on

:21:06. > :21:07.beat bobbies he did a good job on the day. Some did not and some did

:21:07. > :21:08.the day. Some did not and some did the day. Some did not and some did

:21:08. > :21:10.the day. Some did not and some did and I have always said, I have said

:21:10. > :21:12.and I have always said, I have said and I have always said, I have said

:21:12. > :21:13.and I have always said, I have said it a lot of time, -- times, a

:21:14. > :21:15.it a lot of time, -- times, a it a lot of time, -- times, a

:21:15. > :21:16.policeman is a civilian in uniform. policeman is a civilian in uniform.

:21:16. > :21:18.policeman is a civilian in uniform. We always look at things

:21:18. > :21:18.We always look at things We always look at things

:21:18. > :21:20.We always look at things differently in the light of a life-

:21:20. > :21:21.differently in the light of a life- differently in the light of a life-

:21:21. > :21:23.changing experience and you see the changing experience and you see the

:21:23. > :21:25.changing experience and you see the good guys and the bad guys.

:21:25. > :21:26.good guys and the bad guys. good guys and the bad guys.

:21:26. > :21:28.Unfortunately, some of the villains Unfortunately, some of the villains

:21:28. > :21:29.Unfortunately, some of the villains Unfortunately, some of the villains

:21:29. > :21:30.as we see them, not as South as we see them, not as South

:21:30. > :21:31.as we see them, not as South Yorkshire Police would see them,

:21:31. > :21:36.Yorkshire Police would see them, Yorkshire Police would see them,

:21:36. > :21:38.but they are dead now. Sometimes, but they are dead now. Sometimes,

:21:38. > :21:40.but they are dead now. Sometimes, but they are dead now. Sometimes,

:21:40. > :21:41.that is a problem, that sound bite. that is a problem, that sound bite.

:21:41. > :21:45.that is a problem, that sound bite. People talk about how South

:21:45. > :21:46.People talk about how South People talk about how South

:21:46. > :21:47.Yorkshire Police see them. Pole Yorkshire Police see them. Pole

:21:47. > :21:48.Yorkshire Police see them. Pole Yorkshire Police see them. Pole

:21:48. > :21:49.macro is made up of a lot of macro is made up of a lot of

:21:49. > :21:50.macro is made up of a lot of individuals and they do not think

:21:50. > :21:52.individuals and they do not think individuals and they do not think

:21:52. > :21:54.as a block -- South Yorkshire as a block -- South Yorkshire

:21:54. > :21:55.Police. People have different Police. People have different

:21:55. > :21:56.Police. People have different Police. People have different

:21:56. > :21:56.opinions and a lot of people were opinions and a lot of people were

:21:56. > :21:59.opinions and a lot of people were opinions and a lot of people were

:21:59. > :22:01.there on the day and we all saw there on the day and we all saw

:22:01. > :22:02.there on the day and we all saw people tried their best. People

:22:02. > :22:04.people tried their best. People people tried their best. People

:22:04. > :22:06.cannot comprehend, we know what it cannot comprehend, we know what it

:22:06. > :22:07.cannot comprehend, we know what it cannot comprehend, we know what it

:22:07. > :22:10.was like, it was like he war-zone. was like, it was like he war-zone.

:22:10. > :22:11.was like, it was like he war-zone. was like, it was like he war-zone.

:22:11. > :22:12.To see young people dead and dying To see young people dead and dying

:22:12. > :22:15.To see young people dead and dying all around, but people sometimes

:22:15. > :22:19.all around, but people sometimes all around, but people sometimes

:22:19. > :22:19.forget that. And Liverpool fans, forget that. And Liverpool fans,

:22:19. > :22:21.forget that. And Liverpool fans, paramedics, police, they did do a

:22:21. > :22:23.paramedics, police, they did do a paramedics, police, they did do a

:22:23. > :22:24.tremendously good job on the day. tremendously good job on the day.

:22:24. > :22:24.tremendously good job on the day. tremendously good job on the day.

:22:24. > :22:25.Having met in front of the cameras, Having met in front of the cameras,

:22:25. > :22:26.Having met in front of the cameras, they want to discuss some things

:22:26. > :22:27.they want to discuss some things they want to discuss some things

:22:27. > :22:28.they want to discuss some things that are still too personal and too

:22:28. > :22:32.that are still too personal and too that are still too personal and too

:22:32. > :22:33.painful to discuss in public. So painful to discuss in public. So

:22:33. > :22:34.painful to discuss in public. So painful to discuss in public. So

:22:34. > :22:35.they are going to do that now in private.

:22:35. > :22:36.private. private.

:22:36. > :22:37.Peter and Trevor hadn't met since Peter and Trevor hadn't met since

:22:37. > :22:38.Peter and Trevor hadn't met since the disaster. Time has dulled the

:22:38. > :22:39.the disaster. Time has dulled the the disaster. Time has dulled the

:22:39. > :22:40.the disaster. Time has dulled the raw emotion of that day, but both

:22:40. > :22:41.raw emotion of that day, but both raw emotion of that day, but both

:22:41. > :22:42.men were unprepared for the men were unprepared for the

:22:42. > :22:51.men were unprepared for the strength of feeling stirred up by

:22:51. > :22:52.strength of feeling stirred up by strength of feeling stirred up by

:22:52. > :22:55.today's reunion. Surprised by how today's reunion. Surprised by how

:22:56. > :22:57.today's reunion. Surprised by how today's reunion. Surprised by how

:22:57. > :22:58.anxious I was as we walked in. The anxious I was as we walked in. The

:22:58. > :23:00.anxious I was as we walked in. The first feeling was, I was quite

:23:00. > :23:02.first feeling was, I was quite first feeling was, I was quite

:23:02. > :23:03.relieved. It is like waiting for relieved. It is like waiting for

:23:03. > :23:04.relieved. It is like waiting for the dentist, the waiting is worse

:23:04. > :23:05.the dentist, the waiting is worse the dentist, the waiting is worse

:23:05. > :23:06.the dentist, the waiting is worse than the treatment. A lot of people

:23:06. > :23:08.than the treatment. A lot of people than the treatment. A lot of people

:23:08. > :23:09.than the treatment. A lot of people do not realise I am more nervous

:23:09. > :23:09.do not realise I am more nervous do not realise I am more nervous

:23:09. > :23:10.do not realise I am more nervous than I, cos sometimes and it was a

:23:10. > :23:12.than I, cos sometimes and it was a than I, cos sometimes and it was a

:23:12. > :23:13.than I, cos sometimes and it was a big day and I was not quite sure

:23:13. > :23:15.big day and I was not quite sure big day and I was not quite sure

:23:15. > :23:17.what his reaction would be. what his reaction would be.

:23:17. > :23:19.what his reaction would be. wanted Trevor to be comfortable but

:23:19. > :23:20.wanted Trevor to be comfortable but wanted Trevor to be comfortable but

:23:20. > :23:21.I became uncomfortable myself. I do I became uncomfortable myself. I do

:23:21. > :23:22.I became uncomfortable myself. I do I became uncomfortable myself. I do

:23:22. > :23:24.not know if that was a macho not know if that was a macho

:23:24. > :23:25.not know if that was a macho barrier, but my instinct would have

:23:25. > :23:27.barrier, but my instinct would have barrier, but my instinct would have

:23:27. > :23:28.barrier, but my instinct would have barrier, but my instinct would have

:23:28. > :23:29.been to give him a hug, as I did been to give him a hug, as I did

:23:29. > :23:30.been to give him a hug, as I did been to give him a hug, as I did

:23:30. > :23:32.those years back in hospital when I those years back in hospital when I

:23:32. > :23:33.those years back in hospital when I told him the terrible news. But

:23:33. > :23:35.told him the terrible news. But told him the terrible news. But

:23:35. > :23:37.somehow, the Hogg became a stiff somehow, the Hogg became a stiff

:23:37. > :23:42.somehow, the Hogg became a stiff handshake and I think it was

:23:42. > :23:45.handshake and I think it was handshake and I think it was

:23:45. > :23:47.handshake and I think it was similar with him. -- hug. It was

:23:47. > :23:48.similar with him. -- hug. It was similar with him. -- hug. It was

:23:48. > :23:49.similar with him. -- hug. It was awkward at first but it was a quick

:23:49. > :23:50.awkward at first but it was a quick awkward at first but it was a quick

:23:50. > :23:52.awkward at first but it was a quick bonding process. He is such a nice

:23:52. > :23:53.bonding process. He is such a nice bonding process. He is such a nice

:23:53. > :23:54.bloke, having been through so much, bloke, having been through so much,

:23:54. > :23:55.bloke, having been through so much, bloke, having been through so much,

:23:55. > :23:57.and you feel for him and you can and you feel for him and you can

:23:57. > :23:58.and you feel for him and you can and you feel for him and you can

:23:58. > :24:01.see has pain still coming out in see has pain still coming out in

:24:01. > :24:02.see has pain still coming out in all aspects of his conversation.

:24:02. > :24:04.all aspects of his conversation. all aspects of his conversation.

:24:04. > :24:05.all aspects of his conversation. was it really nice guy. We talked

:24:05. > :24:06.was it really nice guy. We talked was it really nice guy. We talked

:24:06. > :24:07.was it really nice guy. We talked about a few things on the day and

:24:07. > :24:11.about a few things on the day and about a few things on the day and

:24:11. > :24:12.his recollections were similar to mine.

:24:12. > :24:13.mine. mine.

:24:13. > :24:14.mine. He said this is something you were

:24:14. > :24:17.He said this is something you were He said this is something you were

:24:17. > :24:18.doing for Trevor, have you taken doing for Trevor, have you taken

:24:18. > :24:19.doing for Trevor, have you taken something positive from this? --

:24:19. > :24:21.something positive from this? -- something positive from this? --

:24:21. > :24:23.something positive from this? -- you said. I have, more so than I

:24:23. > :24:25.you said. I have, more so than I you said. I have, more so than I

:24:25. > :24:26.thought. After 30 years, you think thought. After 30 years, you think

:24:26. > :24:26.thought. After 30 years, you think thought. After 30 years, you think

:24:27. > :24:29.you're hard and two aspects of life you're hard and two aspects of life

:24:29. > :24:31.you're hard and two aspects of life you're hard and two aspects of life

:24:31. > :24:32.and death. But getting back to the and death. But getting back to the

:24:32. > :24:33.and death. But getting back to the human interaction with Trevor, it

:24:33. > :24:34.human interaction with Trevor, it human interaction with Trevor, it

:24:34. > :24:36.human interaction with Trevor, it is a great reaction -- a quick

:24:36. > :24:39.is a great reaction -- a quick is a great reaction -- a quick

:24:39. > :24:41.reminder of, what is this about? reminder of, what is this about?

:24:41. > :24:43.reminder of, what is this about? This is about his daughters,

:24:43. > :24:44.This is about his daughters, This is about his daughters,

:24:44. > :24:47.Victoria and Sarah, and the other Victoria and Sarah, and the other

:24:47. > :24:48.Victoria and Sarah, and the other victims. Among us that, there was

:24:48. > :24:49.victims. Among us that, there was victims. Among us that, there was

:24:49. > :24:50.victims. Among us that, there was such a tragic story -- among that.

:24:50. > :24:51.such a tragic story -- among that. such a tragic story -- among that.

:24:51. > :24:52.such a tragic story -- among that. Are there was a lot to talk about

:24:52. > :24:54.Are there was a lot to talk about Are there was a lot to talk about

:24:54. > :24:55.Are there was a lot to talk about so we will have a few meetings and

:24:55. > :24:56.so we will have a few meetings and so we will have a few meetings and

:24:56. > :24:58.so we will have a few meetings and the future -- there is a lot. We

:24:58. > :24:59.the future -- there is a lot. We the future -- there is a lot. We

:24:59. > :25:00.the future -- there is a lot. We will get in touch sub -- separately

:25:00. > :25:01.will get in touch sub -- separately will get in touch sub -- separately

:25:01. > :25:03.and have other meetings, we will and have other meetings, we will

:25:03. > :25:05.and have other meetings, we will and have other meetings, we will

:25:05. > :25:06.have more time. We need to build on have more time. We need to build on

:25:06. > :25:08.have more time. We need to build on have more time. We need to build on

:25:08. > :25:09.this, we will meet again and talk this, we will meet again and talk

:25:09. > :25:10.this, we will meet again and talk this, we will meet again and talk

:25:10. > :25:11.in more detail about things. If he in more detail about things. If he

:25:11. > :25:12.in more detail about things. If he in more detail about things. If he

:25:12. > :25:14.can take comfort from that and I can take comfort from that and I

:25:14. > :25:17.can take comfort from that and I can take comfort from that and I

:25:17. > :25:20.can help pimp in any way I can. can help pimp in any way I can.

:25:20. > :25:21.can help pimp in any way I can. can help pimp in any way I can.

:25:21. > :25:23.Just meeting. -- help him. It was Just meeting. -- help him. It was

:25:23. > :25:25.Just meeting. -- help him. It was good talking about that moment.

:25:25. > :25:30.good talking about that moment. good talking about that moment.

:25:30. > :25:32.Two sides commit closer, perhaps? Two sides commit closer, perhaps?

:25:32. > :25:33.Two sides commit closer, perhaps? Two sides commit closer, perhaps?

:25:33. > :25:34.- coming. You are in danger of - coming. You are in danger of

:25:34. > :25:35.- coming. You are in danger of being presumptuous for him lot of

:25:35. > :25:37.being presumptuous for him lot of being presumptuous for him lot of

:25:37. > :25:38.being presumptuous for him lot of people and that is not my place. It

:25:38. > :25:40.people and that is not my place. It people and that is not my place. It

:25:40. > :25:42.has been symbolic for Trevor and has been symbolic for Trevor and

:25:42. > :25:43.has been symbolic for Trevor and for me, reflecting back on those

:25:43. > :25:45.for me, reflecting back on those for me, reflecting back on those

:25:45. > :25:48.for me, reflecting back on those days, and I think it is symbolic of

:25:48. > :25:48.days, and I think it is symbolic of days, and I think it is symbolic of

:25:49. > :25:50.people may be reminding themselves people may be reminding themselves

:25:50. > :25:51.people may be reminding themselves about the efforts some people did

:25:51. > :25:53.about the efforts some people did about the efforts some people did

:25:53. > :25:56.about the efforts some people did about the efforts some people did

:25:56. > :25:58.go to on that day. It may have some go to on that day. It may have some

:25:58. > :25:59.symbolism, but reconciliation can symbolism, but reconciliation can

:25:59. > :26:00.symbolism, but reconciliation can symbolism, but reconciliation can

:26:00. > :26:02.only come when there is balance on only come when there is balance on

:26:02. > :26:05.only come when there is balance on only come when there is balance on

:26:05. > :26:06.each side and people feel that they each side and people feel that they

:26:06. > :26:08.each side and people feel that they have travelled to where they need

:26:08. > :26:09.have travelled to where they need have travelled to where they need

:26:09. > :26:12.have travelled to where they need to be. With have crossed a personal

:26:12. > :26:13.to be. With have crossed a personal to be. With have crossed a personal

:26:13. > :26:14.divide. -- we have crossed. He divide. -- we have crossed. He

:26:14. > :26:16.divide. -- we have crossed. He might have a different opinion to

:26:16. > :26:17.might have a different opinion to might have a different opinion to

:26:17. > :26:19.might have a different opinion to might have a different opinion to

:26:19. > :26:20.me, but I did not see this as two me, but I did not see this as two

:26:20. > :26:22.me, but I did not see this as two sides, South Yorkshire Police and

:26:22. > :26:24.sides, South Yorkshire Police and sides, South Yorkshire Police and

:26:24. > :26:25.sides, South Yorkshire Police and the families. I see this as me and

:26:25. > :26:28.the families. I see this as me and the families. I see this as me and

:26:28. > :26:29.an individual saying thank you to an individual saying thank you to

:26:29. > :26:30.an individual saying thank you to another individual who was a young

:26:30. > :26:31.another individual who was a young another individual who was a young

:26:31. > :26:33.another individual who was a young police officer on the day for what

:26:33. > :26:33.police officer on the day for what police officer on the day for what

:26:34. > :26:35.police officer on the day for what he did to help. Trevor felt the

:26:35. > :26:37.he did to help. Trevor felt the he did to help. Trevor felt the

:26:37. > :26:38.he did to help. Trevor felt the need to meet me and maybe that is

:26:38. > :26:39.need to meet me and maybe that is need to meet me and maybe that is

:26:39. > :26:41.need to meet me and maybe that is part of something on his journey. I

:26:41. > :26:42.part of something on his journey. I part of something on his journey. I

:26:42. > :26:43.do not think it lessens their do not think it lessens their

:26:43. > :26:44.do not think it lessens their do not think it lessens their

:26:44. > :26:46.desire for truth, I do not think it desire for truth, I do not think it

:26:46. > :26:48.desire for truth, I do not think it lessens their desire for justice, I

:26:48. > :26:48.lessens their desire for justice, I lessens their desire for justice, I

:26:48. > :26:50.lessens their desire for justice, I do not think it diminishes any of

:26:50. > :26:52.do not think it diminishes any of do not think it diminishes any of

:26:52. > :26:53.those factors, let's be clear on those factors, let's be clear on

:26:53. > :26:56.those factors, let's be clear on those factors, let's be clear on

:26:56. > :26:57.that. But a pink if people are at that. But a pink if people are at

:26:57. > :26:58.that. But a pink if people are at that. But a pink if people are at

:26:58. > :26:59.some point -- but I think of some some point -- but I think of some

:26:59. > :26:59.some point -- but I think of some some point -- but I think of some

:26:59. > :27:01.people do at some stage want to people do at some stage want to

:27:01. > :27:03.people do at some stage want to people do at some stage want to

:27:03. > :27:04.move on and are looking for comfort, move on and are looking for comfort,

:27:04. > :27:09.move on and are looking for comfort, move on and are looking for comfort,

:27:09. > :27:10.a reconciliation has to be a good a reconciliation has to be a good

:27:10. > :27:11.a reconciliation has to be a good a reconciliation has to be a good

:27:11. > :27:13.thing, but only if it is balanced thing, but only if it is balanced

:27:13. > :27:14.thing, but only if it is balanced thing, but only if it is balanced

:27:14. > :27:15.on each side. At there will come a on each side. At there will come a

:27:15. > :27:18.on each side. At there will come a on each side. At there will come a

:27:18. > :27:19.time, I do not think for a couple time, I do not think for a couple

:27:19. > :27:21.time, I do not think for a couple time, I do not think for a couple

:27:21. > :27:22.of years, went there was a more of years, went there was a more

:27:22. > :27:24.of years, went there was a more across the board reconciliation --

:27:24. > :27:25.across the board reconciliation -- across the board reconciliation --

:27:25. > :27:27.across the board reconciliation -- and where there is. But that time

:27:27. > :27:34.and where there is. But that time and where there is. But that time

:27:34. > :27:37.is obviously not at the moment. is obviously not at the moment.

:27:37. > :27:38.is obviously not at the moment. is obviously not at the moment.

:27:38. > :27:39.The party see you. Pleasure to meet The party see you. Pleasure to meet

:27:39. > :27:40.The party see you. Pleasure to meet The party see you. Pleasure to meet

:27:41. > :27:42.The party see you. Pleasure to meet you. -- it is good to see you. I

:27:42. > :27:44.you. -- it is good to see you. I you. -- it is good to see you. I

:27:44. > :27:47.hope we meet again. Look after hope we meet again. Look after

:27:47. > :27:50.hope we meet again. Look after yourself. And you for coming.

:27:50. > :27:52.yourself. And you for coming. yourself. And you for coming.

:27:52. > :27:53.thank you. The same to you. thank you. The same to you.

:27:53. > :27:54.thank you. The same to you. thank you. The same to you.

:27:54. > :27:55.This is essentially just a story of This is essentially just a story of

:27:55. > :27:56.This is essentially just a story of This is essentially just a story of

:27:56. > :27:57.two men who meet again after two two men who meet again after two

:27:57. > :27:57.two men who meet again after two decades apart. But the wider

:27:58. > :27:59.decades apart. But the wider decades apart. But the wider

:27:59. > :28:00.resonance is hard to ignore. resonance is hard to ignore.

:28:00. > :28:01.resonance is hard to ignore. Justice for the bereaved is still

:28:01. > :28:01.Justice for the bereaved is still Justice for the bereaved is still

:28:01. > :28:03.to be achieved and reconciliation to be achieved and reconciliation

:28:03. > :28:04.to be achieved and reconciliation to be achieved and reconciliation

:28:04. > :28:05.seems a long way off. But maybe, seems a long way off. But maybe,

:28:05. > :28:06.seems a long way off. But maybe, seems a long way off. But maybe,

:28:06. > :28:07.one day, two men meeting in a park one day, two men meeting in a park

:28:07. > :28:17.one day, two men meeting in a park one day, two men meeting in a park

:28:17. > :28:25.

:28:25. > :28:26.might be seen as a small step along A remarkable reunion. And in

:28:26. > :28:27.A remarkable reunion. And in A remarkable reunion. And in

:28:27. > :28:29.tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter

:28:29. > :28:30.tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter McGuinness who wanted to make them

:28:30. > :28:32.McGuinness who wanted to make them McGuinness who wanted to make them

:28:32. > :28:33.meeting public -- a tribute. That meeting public -- a tribute. That

:28:33. > :28:35.meeting public -- a tribute. That is it from Hillsborough, but you

:28:35. > :28:37.is it from Hillsborough, but you is it from Hillsborough, but you

:28:37. > :28:38.can watch the programme again on the iPlayer.

:28:38. > :28:42.the iPlayer. the iPlayer.

:28:42. > :28:43.the iPlayer. Make sure you join us next week.

:28:43. > :28:44.Make sure you join us next week. Make sure you join us next week.

:28:44. > :28:45.Rediscover the true scale of Rediscover the true scale of

:28:45. > :28:46.Rediscover the true scale of malnutrition in our bigger city and

:28:46. > :28:47.malnutrition in our bigger city and malnutrition in our bigger city and

:28:47. > :28:48.malnutrition in our bigger city and find out what is being done to help